# A Furniture Makers Forum



## BigRedKnothead

While I love me some Hand planes, Workbenches, Tool boxes and the like….my primary objective in woodworking is furniture making. I just wanna make quality furniture, and lots of it!

So I thought it would be cool to have a forum on the subject of furniture making. We can post questions, techniques, and progress of our current builds…..anything to do with building and designing furniture. We can post just for fun, or in hopes we learn something from each other along the way.

Here's one my personal favorites, it's a walnut bookcase I made for my wife. 









I'm a hobbyist furniture maker myself, albeit a serious one. If you want to read more about me, you can find my LJ interview here: http://lumberjocks.com/CricketW/blog/42010

And my website/blog: www.westfallwoodcraft.com

Otherwise, here's some furniture and furniture maker sites we can draw inspiration from. 
http://www.doucetteandwolfefurniture.com/
http://www.thejoinery.com/
http://stephenevansfurniture.com/
http://www.michaelfortune.com/home.html
http://www.kelloggfurniture.com/
http://schurchwoodwork.com
http://www.thomashuckerstudio.com/html/home.html
http://www.amanashops.com/category/amana-furniture-shop
http://www.stickley.com/
http://www.thosmoser.com/
http://www.mark-ripley.com/
http://www.finefurnituremaker.com/
http://www.furnituremaker.com/
http://www.mattdownerdesigns.com/bedgal.html
http://www.chbecksvoort.com/
http://www.thwink.org/personal/images/ImagesArtFurniture.htm
http://www.andrewpittsfurnituremaker.com/
http://www.josephwalshstudio.com/
http://www.theunpluggedwoodshop.com/
http://davidbarronfurniture.co.uk/david_barron_furniture.asp
http://www.kagenschaefer.com/
http://www.brianboggschairmakers.com/
http://www.meetsebastian.com/
http://silaskopf.com/
http://www.davidboefffurnituremaker.blogspot.com
https://www.ligneusstudios.com/
http://www.philipmorleyfurniture.com/custom-furniture.html
http://www.diamanwoodcrafters.com/index.htm


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## BigRedKnothead

Currently I'm working on a sideboard made from knotty Alder. My first experience with this wood. Here's what I've learned about this wood so far;

- It's kinda soft, but it will tear-out alright. Especially if your knives on your planer are dull (for you Kev)
- The knots can be cool looking, but they must be respected. Be prepared for a couple of those buggers to come loose while machining the stock.

Usually I'm arranging the rays/flecks in quartsawn woods to look good. This time I'm doing it with the knots. Here's a potential bookmatched door panel. 









And here's one of those tips that you though were brialliant at the time…only to see someone else post it in a tip section of a woodworking mag:









Ya, I use weatherstripping foam to cushion my solid panels.


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## lysdexic

I share your approach and philosophy but lack the big chunks of time away from the "real job."

How many Morris chairs have you made and how did you learn how to make them?


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## BigRedKnothead

I sympathize Scotty, I worked like a madman in my 20's. I've got seniority to hold some better jobs now. I imagine its tough to cut back the hours in your line of work;/

I suppose I learned just by following the plans in books and magazines…
The Morris chair above is made exactly to the plans in this book. Well, except the ottoman. I just came up with that to match. I've made two chairs like that. I don't even have pics of the other. I'm getting better about that. 









Great book. Highly recommended.

There is another sweet chair Schwarz made in that book pdf here. I'd like to make that one too. I'll need to round up some nice 8/4 qswo for that one.

A frend ordered two curved-arm morris chairs that I'll make this winter. Should be interesting.


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## renners

The world of furniture, I find it engrossing. Shapes and forms and manufacturing techniques, there's a lot to wrap your head around. There's all sorts of things I like and all sorts of things I don't, but I have an appreciation for the way any piece can look at home in the right surroundings.
Looking forward to what this thread might bring.


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## vikingcape

A little more than a year ago furniture was probably the most boring conversation I could have with anyone. I hated furniture. Whatever I always thought its functional and that's it.

Now I'm absolutely nuts about it. Even cheap furniture I can learn from. I've become a huge student of furniture and love cutting dovetails by hand. But I also love to run my table saw. Now I'm reading every bit of information that I can on the subject. I love seeing the work of others. And I appreciate the comments and critiques from all. I figure all of it can lead to more discovery.

I'm currently working on a dresser for my little wife. It's going to be dovetail heaven.



















Case is dovetailed and there will be dovetailed drawers and sliding dovetail groves for the drawer frames. I think I have a sickness…..


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## vikingcape

This is definitely going to be a fun thread


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## BigRedKnothead

Well said fellas. I'm borderline obsessed with furniture design and theory myself. It started with Stickley's stuff. I was just drawn to the simple, timeless designs. I read everything I could get my hands on concerning the A&C movement. Now I'm on to G&G, shaker, and whatever else strikes my fancy. 
As I said, I started by making furniture from plans. And I thought I'd be ok with that. But now I'm getting the itch and confidence to design some stuff myself.

Kaleb- sweet doves. What kind of wood is that?

renners- believe it or not, you are one of the LJs I was hoping would participate. I'm sure I have a little wisdom/technique to share….but there are a lot of LJs who who could fix me a nice batch of humble pie anytime they wanted…and your one of 'em


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## jmartel

I posted this in the shop thread already, but here's the coffee table I'm working on:










And the top, which is going to get breadboard ends:










The project got a little sidetracked because I'm building a bedside valet for someone for some extra cash.


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## vikingcape

Red: it's good old Jersey maple and cherry from a sawyer I got close to me here. The maple is the top, the cherry is the sides. By the way those knots in your project give some nice character. Should be a cool piece

Jmartel those are some great looking boards glued up there. That should be a show stopper


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## CFrye

I'm in Red. Will probably just lurk and soak up a lot of knowledge. Saw my Grandma's rocking chair in this post and started thinking maybe I could…
Your morris chair is beautiful Red and that coffee table is really looking good as well jmartel.


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## pintodeluxe

A cherry trundle bed for one of my sons is the current project. He likes the subtle arches I drew in the plans, and is happy with the design. That's what counts I guess. So far I have the footboard completed.


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## jmartel

Great looking design, pinto.

After my coffee table is done, a morris chair is next on the list, also out of walnut.


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## BigRedKnothead

Pintodeluxe!- another cat I was hoping would join the fun. Great work. Great blogs. Share some of you magic here brother. The headboard looks great. I like the design.

jmartel- I think you said that walnut was pricey…it was worth it. It's reasonable around these parts, but stuff that nice can be harder to come by.

Kaleb- good stuff. As I've posted, here in the midwest I get walnut and white oak pretty cheap. However, I pretty much pay market price on hard maple and cherry. It's probably all shipped in from New Jersey…or some other country


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Tell us about the upholstery on that Morris chair and foot rest, Red. Have it done, or ?


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## BigRedKnothead

Ya Smitty, I had a local upholsterer sew the cushions. I can wrap/staple cushions (like my dining chairs below), even stretch jute webbing, but sewing is another story.

Basically I just asked for referrals at a local fabric/upholstery store. Glad I did. Met this guy who works out of his garage too. We've become friends. Best part…he lets me get leather at his cost He only charged me $100 labor to make the cushions. I try to refer him as much business I can.


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## jmartel

I paid $4.75 for the Walnut, Red. It's $6.75 at the lumber store here, and I think a bit more at Rockler.


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## camps764

I'm in the home stretch of building the twin to a night stand I built a while back.










I'm also in the middle of building a computer desk based on an A&C Library Table from the Shop Notes for Craftsman Furniture book. It has a zillion M&T joints in it, and is seriously making me consider buying a bench top mortising machine. - no pictures of that one at the moment.


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## waho6o9

Cool thread, looking forward to everyone's ideas and furniture.

Here's a commissioned entertainment center for a client that wanted it on wheels
so she could keep the floor clean.

The back had a trough for the wires and each component had it's own hinged door.

It was 8 feet long around 16" deep and 14" tall if I remember correctly. The six wheels
made it easy to move. Oak face frame and oak plywood for the rest.


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## Tugboater78

Be nice to see what gets posted here. Hopefully one day I can add my own works


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## vikingcape

Good lord Waho. That's a monster! Did it get builit in sections, or is it all one unit?


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## renners

There's some nice work on here already, and Red, your Morris chair sure looks well made and inviting. It'll be a little while before I post my next project. 'Pretentious Crap' is what I'll call it - in honour of a comment that nearly made me spit coffee over my laptop on a thread discussing 'Shabby Chic'. 
Just a small desk for my daughter with my first attempt at cabriole legs, light distressing and a Provençal paint job.
Getting round to it is the problem, there's all these other things to do… the Blacksmith's horse is never shod


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## moonie

furniture maker's forum would be sweet.As for my self Im not into hand plane's or band saw box's or truning and i dont copy other people's work. i have always design my work on the fly thats whats nice about furniture maker makeing its different each time


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## vikingcape

David that's the same way I design, except I do copy a lot. I treat it like my guitar playing, I steal, pardon me, borrow the things worth stealing. When I draw something out it's only very rough. I'm not good enough to conceptualize a whole piece joint for joint yet.

Renners can't wait to see your "pretentious crap". I'm sure it will be amazing. Garry Knox Bennett loves to antagonize people with his forms too. Have you ever seen the nail cabinet? If not google it, it really ticks people off.


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## HillbillyShooter

Great idea! Thinking I'll hit the "Watch" button on this one and lurk for a while, By coincident, last night I was looking through the PW A&C Furniture Projects book Red recommends. I keep think thinking about building some G&G style furniture, but need to finish up one more piece of shop furniture. I've bought just about every book published on G&G (that I can find anyway) so it's probably time to jump in and do it.


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## reedwood

Love the Morris chair and A&C too…..my whole house is A&C!
I ended up buying my Morris chair made by the Amish. I was going to build one but it was the same price as the 1/4 sawn oak materials! In fact, I bought the whole set.

I built this saltwater tank stand out of cherry about two years ago. 
It's posted as the four year project in my profile.

The problem is, it's so tall that I have to use a small kitchen ladder to feed the fish twice a day. The guy that installed the filter system was going to put in a feeder in line but it's a bitch to use and you can't feed them whole clams through it so.. I bought a cheap metal ladder and, I hate it.

My plan is to make a 4 ft. arched rolling ladder attached to a rod like you would find in a library. The ladder will have a slight nautical theme, maybe have round holes drilled in the sides…something you would see in the submarine in 20k leagues under the sea. Stainless steel screws, maybe a shell carving, who knows!

Never seen this idea before but it sounds really cool. I'll post it when I'm done.


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## waho6o9

Correct Kaleb it was built in sections and each piece was finished
before it was glued so as not to see glue marks.

One morning I looked at it and was pleased with the results so 
I knew it was completed.


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## BigRedKnothead

Waho-I bet your client enjoyed that she could get a piece exactly how she wanted it. I have a few friends/clients who tease that I get their wives hooked on my furniture. It's funny because its often the wives who complain about the price, but once they get that first quality piece made, exactly the way they want….they don't want to bother with furniture shopping anymore

David Dean- I'm sure we'll get into the issues of designing your work on here. If your going to sell it…it's definitely relevant. As far as the designs in book and mags, I guess I never considered it "copying" since those are made to be instructional…and the authors want you to built it. 
Perhaps making a bunch of stuff from plans as I did is not as ideal as an apprenticeship or something….but it's all some of us have. Now, even when I go off plans, I'm comfortable enough with the joinery and techniques that I deviate quite a bit.

reedwood- That fish tank is sweet. Don't know if you've seen that rockler has hardware for sliding library latters. Can't speak for the quality, but that's what I thought of reading your predicament.

Camps- looks like you've caught the A&C bug. I've got lots of books your welcome to if you make it to my side of the river. Mortising machine? Now there's a power tool that pays for itself on the first project. I told my wife I wouldn't make the dining set (pic above) for her until I had one. She got one for my bday the next month I see Deltas on CL from time to time.


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## bondogaposis

Right now I'm building the "Lost Stickley Table" from Bob Lang's book Classic Arts and Crafts Furniture. I haven't got much to show yet as I have just milled the legs so far. I'll post some pics as I get more into it. Thanks to BigRedK for posting that pdf on that unique Morris Chair, I hadn't seen that and I'm thinking that will be my next big project after the Christmas craziness get over with.


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## moonie

BigRedKnothead I maint nothing worng by useing plans.
Kaleb the Swede I didnt steal ******************** I worked under my grand father for 15 to 20 years the old school way.


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## CL810

*Red*, this is going to be a great thread. I have no furniture build right now, but I do have lots of questions.  Piece I just finished can be seen here.

*Question*. Does anyone know of a book that covers geometry as applied to woodworking?


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## mds2

Furniture building is my passion. I love contemporary furniture and furniture design in general. I read the entire woodworking section at my local library, but unfortunately none of the books really covered design, other than Krenov of which I am a huge fan. I'm always open to book suggestions.

The Morris chair above is a classic, and on my to-do list as well. I dont know how many others in my boat but I seem to spend a TON of time looking at the materials and arranging them the best way possible. For example the walnut boards posted above- I would probably spend an hour or two looking, flipping, rearranging, turning, flipping again, etc, to get the best looking top. I think this comes from reading Krenov's books. I enjoy it because it pays off in the end.

I enjoy websites like custommade.com and recently I discovered houzz.com. Good for inspiration.


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## vikingcape

David you learned the best way then. Hands on, not theory. I wish I could do that. I hope i didn't come across the wrong way to you. I was talking about me


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## kiyoshigawa

I got into woodworking to make furniture, but so far I've mostly (half) made a workbench and fixed up old tools. I call it 'practice' for the real thing. In any case, I've already designed a night stand I want to build once I get a handle on the tools and workbench. Here's a picture of the sketchup of it.










I look forward to building it soon, and hopefully this thread will inspire me to get in gear and move onto making it.


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## HorizontalMike

Hey, this is going to be (already is) a very interesting thread/forum. I love the A&C, Stickley, Early American/Country, Amish, etc. Since I could never afford to buy the furniture of my fancy, I enjoy picking a piece/design and building my own as well.

Some of my furniture projects:





































I am thinking that my NEXT piece of furniture will be just the bottom half of a Country Corner Cupboard to use as the TV stand. Why only the bottom half? We currently have a small LCD TV on a TV table in the corner of our dining area. You can just make out the TV in the image below. I am thinking of matching the construction of the green Amish cabinet on the right of this same image, using the same style sticking, molding, turned legs, and milk paint scheme. The 6-board chest will remain between them.


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## moonie

Kaleb the Swede I was in the worng on that one I just toke it out of text but alote of work is old school so you could say it does look like copying. Again I was in the wrong on this one.


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## ClintSearl

See my PROJECTS for design ideas. Also, I've collected a lot of pictures for design inspiration. Check them out at flickr.com/photos/clintsearl.


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## Mahdeew

Hi,
Some beautiful projects displayed here.









Here is my contribution to this thread: Following plans and patterns is very tasking for me. I rarely ever copy my own creations because of it; although creating your own design can be time consuming and frustrating. I guess is the challenge that turns me on about it. Most of the times my projects turn out o.k.; at times I end up with glued up firewood. This feminine executive desk went to my lovely wife.


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## BigRedKnothead

^ Well done David. I too have learned it can difficult to determine meaning and tone in the written word.

I rather liked Kaleb's analogy between music and furniture design. I'm a better woodworker than guitarist, but I couldn't count the times I've learned a song only to think, "that song has the same chord progression as this song. And a similar melody to this song…." If you catch my drift.

I suppose that's why I have a pessimistic "nothing new under the sun" view on furniture design thus far. Even when I just draw something up on a napkin, as I did with this sideboard: , I hesitate to take credit because I'm sure there are others out there very similar to it. And not doubt it was influenced by all the A&C furniture I've looked at. I just put together some components I liked. I didn't use any formulas to layout the drawer ect. I just laid scraps on the carcass until I found something that looking pleasing to my eye.

Recently, I read a blog by Chris Schwarz where he was teaching people to design their own piece. He instructed them to look at hundreds of pics of certain style, let them bounce around in their noodle for a while….and draw the piece. Essentially, that's what I do now. But how am I to know if there's not somebody else who came up with something similar. We all take characteristics of things we like and incorporate them in our work.

Greene and Greene is a good example. Everybody recognizes they're style, but they didn't invent the cloud lift, pegged tenons ect. They were heavily influenced by Asian architecture. The took different things they liked…and that's what they came up with. Could have been others in the same era with similar stuff. But they're the ones that got famous.

All that rambling out, there are those out there who create things truly unique. That's why I love music, art, and furniture. 
Not sure I'm one those capable of dreaming up original stuff. Nah, I'm just another sly thief;-)


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## BigRedKnothead

Crud….I messed up the sideboard link in the post above. It's here:
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/77797


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## renners

Nothing new under the sun? I agree, not for us mere mortals.

Time constraints for a regular cabinet maker mean that a design is arrived at pretty quickly - couple of hours/half a day/a day and a half. This is nothing compared to the time spent on designing a mass produced consumer item, a tea pot for instance. But that is the difference between the one off custom cabinet maker and a global corporation.

But there are those on a different level http://www.johnleefurniture.com/gallery

I love this guy's work. I think you can take an extraordinary amount of time to design something with an extraordinary price tag.


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## Hammerthumb

Great idea for a thread Red. Did not know you were a big fan of G&G and Stickley. I have some pictures I took at the Marston house in San Diego of quite a few pieces of Stickley. I'll try to find them when I get home. I look forward to watching this thread!


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## hobby1

My furniture builds are built with as much recycled lumber as possible.
which causes them to tend to be more rustic in nature.
Good thread you put out here for a collection of furniture builds.


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## vikingcape

Wow hobby that's some amazing work with a lot of recycled wood. I enjoy using recycled as well. That john lee furniture got saved on my bookmarks so I can look at it a few million times, thanks renners.


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## ronniebo

You blokes all need a pat on the back!!
BUT you have made it hard on we poor ole procrastinators.
My GUILT COMPLEXES are working overtime now!!


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## donwilwol

ok. you guys are very intimidating. I can't say i'm in the same class, but I'll play along to learn.


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## camps764

Great Ice Chest Don, I really dig the color and figure on the butternut.


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## camps764

Horizontal Mike - I really like the stacked display cabinet you posted. Your design?


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## HorizontalMike

*Steve: "...I really like the stacked display cabinet you posted. Your design?..."*

Thanks for kudos Steve. I am afraid it is not an original. I found it in an old issue of WOOD Magazine. It is a Barrister's Bookcase in a Mission/A&C style. I chose to build it using White Ash. More info here.


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## mojapitt

I hope us "live edge" furniture guys are included. I definitely can use some advice on furniture construction.


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## Dark_Lightning

Holy Smokes, Hobby1, what wood is that in the last pic?!? That thing is drop dead gorgeous!


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## vikingcape

I could use your help with live edge Monte, that's something I want to try


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## waho6o9

Welcome aboard "live edge" folks, the more the better to learn from,

I'd vote them in.

+1 what AtomJack said.


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## Loren

I think between the "design" and "joinery" sub-forums, furniture
making concerns are adequately covered here, but if you want a 
sub-forum on furniture making I give it a thumbs up.


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## a1Jim

Lots of interesting pieces good job every one.


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## CL810

Have I missed a joinery thread?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Have I missed a design thread, too?


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## a1Jim

I think we have a "joinery & design" forum it's called the projects page,you learn design and joinery good or bad.


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## Loren

There actually are sub-forums on lumberjocks for design and joinery,
but like most of you I'm sure, I read the feed that gives me the
woodworking stuff and not the off-topic stuff.

I read an enormous amount of articles and books when I was
starting out. This was before the internet was much use.

These days I learn the most about furniture from looking at
a lot of pieces (usually pictures) and assessing what I like
and don't like about them. My theory is if you want to get
really good at making furniture, you need to develop your
taste… a lot. Tastes vary of course and lots of customers
have what I call bad taste and will buy bad stuff, but if 
you work on developing your eye and taste consistently 
and take on new technical challenges as required, you'll 
progress a lot.

The best furniture designers tend to ignore construction
challenges in the design phase. This is scary with curved
work and stuff like that if you haven't done much of it and
prefer to stay in the comfort zone of building furniture
that more or less stays in the rectilinear patterns 
established by power tool cabinetmaking. I love doing
square work because it's fast and satisfying to assemble,
but I recognize that as a furniture designer, breaking away
from the box forms is essential to doing good work
in a range of styles.


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## BigRedKnothead

renners- That guy you posted is incredible. And he's a great example of the extents one must go to make truly original stuff. There's certainly a place for work like that. But as you say, it has a limited clientele. Shoot, I have trouble talking people into solid panels on their furniture.

Loren- ya, there's all sorts of tangents we could go on with the subject of furniture making. I just went on a design diatribe earlier. With all the other forums I've come across, I haven't seen one broadly about furniture making, so I thought I'd give it a shot. It is whatever we make it.

"ok. you guys are very intimidating." 
Says the guy who makes his own incredible infill planes. That is a sweet ice chest. Some friends of mine have a really cool antique ice chest. It has a brass drain valve and all. I need to get some pics of that thing.

monte- by all means!

mds2- "Furniture making is my passion" Yessir. Me too. That's why all my posts are so long on this thread


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## ColonelTravis

"I'd love to be a Civil War buff." 
George Costanza

Replace "Civil War buff" with "furniture maker" and that's me.
Great topic.


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## HorizontalMike

*Jim: "...I think we have a "joinery & design" forum it's called the projects page,you learn design and joinery good or bad…."*

While I agree with you Jim and others, I feel that Threads/Forums like this one will have much more *ACTIVE PARTICIPATION* than just the posting of projects. When scanning, observing, cruising, etc. the posted "Projects" area, it doesn't take long to notice at just how many LJs just post their work while NOT participating in the typical "Forums". I am NOT saying this is bad, as there are plenty of reasons to steer clear of the "Forums" drama.

What I am saying/suggesting is that for those of us who are regular "Forums" participants, this gives us/them more real-time feedback/discussion than to just wait for someone to "discover" your/their posted project(s) and to comment.


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## hobby1

AtomJack:

"Holy Smokes, Hobby1, what wood is that in the last pic?!? That thing is drop dead gorgeous!"

Thats made entirely from 2×4;s

My blog build of it can be found here.
http://lumberjocks.com/hobby1/blog/36816


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I agree with HM; looking at the projects page for a discussion of design and joinery doesn't scratch the itch quite like a forum does.


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## 111

Here's a little Stool I made that's a little different.


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## hobby1

KevinJeffery,:

that joinery is so tight I can't even see how it goes together, the way the legs are shaped and turned towards the corners, makes the entire piece look like it was carved out of one big block of wood.

Very nice work.


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## camps764

Hobby - I just clicked through your blog on that build. Very impressive man!


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## RPhillips

*Red* this is exactly what I need. I have aspirations to one day build and design furniture and I find it hard (with my condition) to peruse all the forums to find all the info that I need to better educate myself. I have found that from following the "Workbench Smack Down" thread alone, I have gathered a lot of information that not only pertain to workbenches, but to all walks of woodworking.


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## renners

Loren nailed it when he said "breaking away
from the box forms is essential to doing good work
in a range of styles."

The difficulty, for me at least, is trying to get work where people aren't afraid of introducing a few curves here and there (i.e. paying for it).


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## vikingcape

Kevin that is really cool. I like how blended the curves together so nicely. I think I have a ways to go until I can actually cut curves. Heck, I have a ways to go to actually cut straight lines, well straight.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/102960/nail-cabinet

Check this out. I'm sure you guys have seen it, but this piece I keep looking at and thinking is amazing. Made of padauk and then a nail bashed in it. Incredible that the nail made it art


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## rhett

Most recent piece of "furniture" that left the shop.

Creek bed ash, cherry, walnut and poplar. Fits queen sized matress.


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## renners

That's nice Rhett, good proportions


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## vikingcape

Wow Rhett! That ash really is beautiful wood. The subtleness of the curves on the legs and headboard is very tasteful.


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## BigRedKnothead

renners and rhett…...here comes the big guns! Outstanding stuff. In another league that most of us. 
MY hope we are able to keep experienced guys like you engaged here. All the while not intimidate beginners. I think we can pull it off.

Ya, maybe sometime we should post some of our early stuff too. I know some of mine will demonstrate….uhhh…..just how far I've come in just the past 3-4 years

My alder sideboard is coming along. I'll post some progress tomorrow. Gotta go play choo-choo today.


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## 111

OK, early stuff, you asked for it.
The days of using pine for everything
















These were going to make me rich hahaha


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## a1Jim

Most of are early projects needed some kind of improvement and some of my present day projects


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## RPhillips

Rhett that bed is amazing…


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## widdle

That bed is killer..copy and pasting..really nice..


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## Iguana

This project was a collaboration with my wife; we worked on the design for over a year to get it just right. And even then, I made a couple of on-the-fly changes while building the project.

The inspiration came from another piece but after so much "refinement", there is absolutely no resemblance between the two apart from the generic classification as tables.

It is fairly simple. 13 pieces of wood total plus some banding - 3 sets of 4 identical pieces (aprons, legs, supports) and the top. The woodworking was, if not simple, at least straightforward. Clearly, more time was spent working the design than working the wood, but it resulted in a very effective piece.


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## BigRedKnothead

^Just excellent Mark. You should be very proud of that work. Already this forum is putting dents in my sad furniture design theory

KevinJeffery- Good stuff. We've gotta poke a little fun at ourselves from time to time. I'm gonna have to dig in the coffers to find some of my real doozies. I haven't been very good about taking pics of my work until recently.

Anybody see anything wrong with this one….









The craftsmanship isn't bad, but this is before I had any concept of wood movement. For those who don't see a problem, it is not wise to wrap any solid wood panel with trim….and miters to boot! When that curly maple expands and contracts with seasonal movement, it could be trouble.

Thankfully that jewelry box is fairly smalll, and it hasn't imploded on my wife yet. But I plan to make her a better one someday.


----------



## Iguana

Red, when I looked at that, my first reaction was "nicely veneered, but why not use bird's eye?" Then I read the next paragraph 

How wide is the top? A jewelry box isn't particularly large (unless you're the Queen of England, say) but even so, wood movement needs to be taken into consideration. Is that design or engineering?

That was a dilemma I faced when making the above table - the inlaid banding goes across the grain on the top. The table doesn't work without the banding and creating crossgrain banding is a major PITA. I took a close look at the local climate variability (relatively dry year-round) and the expansion coefficients of jatoba (T/R = 1.9, so average) and decided it was worth the risk. Only 18 months since it was built, but no issue so far. But I were making it for a client in an unknown climate, I'd go with a veneered top, not solid wood.

Can't escape the engineering when implementing a design. Whether it is wood movement, joinery, or some other consideration, I want my pieces to outlive me - and I figure on being around for at least 5 more decades. Good engineering is important. Good design, hopefully, will make people care


----------



## ColonelTravis

Mark, cross-grain banding, what makes it such a pain and what's the best way to tackle it? 
Outstanding table.


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## BigRedKnothead

Ya Mark, no veneers. Funny this is, way back when it was probably inspired by something veneered….but I just didn't know what I was looking at. The solid maple top is about 10"x12". That was about 5 years ago and the miters have held up fine. Not that I plan on doing that again. Whether design or engineering, I was getting little big for my britches at the time. Wasn't long before I started to edjamacate myself on seasonal wood movement.

That jewelry box, Scottty's question about my Morris chair earlier, and a recent editorial by Brian Boggs entitled "The Myth of the Self-taught Craftsman" have me thinking a lot about this whole self-taught notion. 
Like Boggs, I have had no formal training (unless you count hs shop class). But I'm am constantly feeding my brain with books, articles, and lowly lumberjocks.com. 
Furthermore, I learn by…..just doing it! I've never been the kind to sit around and wonder what it would be like to build this or that. Even if it was out of my comfort zone, I gave it my best shot. Ya, I've got a couple lemons in my house to show for it, but I have no regrets. Any wood sacrificed was worth the skill and experience attained. You see, the wood and the tools taught me along the way….and they still are.

So, if anybody is holding back out there…get going. Research it. Build it. Your not gonna make a heirloom for a couple years…and that's ok. But your never gonna build a heirloom at all if you don't start building your skills and knowledge now! 
-motivational rant over


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## Tugboater78

Was hoping Rhett would chime in, I didn't get to see all his furniture, but he has some real nice pieces at his house.


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## CFrye

Mark I'd be interested in the issues with cross grain banding as well. Is part of it because the end grain soaks up so much glue?


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## Iguana

A couple questions about cross-grain banding:

Banding is usually created by slicing thin strips off the edge of a board. The grain runs the length of the strip. The problem occurs when it is glued across the grain of the underlying surface. When that surface expands, the banding is oriented wrong, gaps appear. It is exactly the same issue Red mentions with the solid wood top that has solid trim on all four sides. The two sides that are glued across the grain are liable to have the mitred corners showing gaps or in worst case, complete joint failure because one piece of wood moves and the other doesn't. In theory, Red's top is even more prone to failure because he has glued across end grain.

That's the issue, so what can be done about it?

1) Use a stable substrate and veneer it. In many ways, this is the preferred option for stability.

2) Ensure that the grain of all your parts ends up oriented the same. This is what I was alluding to when I mentioned that creating cross-grain banding is a PITA. To create the banding I did was relatively simple. I took a board of curly maple about 24" long, 4" wide and 1/2" thick, and then glued a layer of black veneer and a layer of maple veneer to each side. When dry, just sliced it lengthwise into thinnish pieces. (That one board produced a lot more banding than I needed for the table).

To create banding with cross-grain orientation, I would have needed to cut a board width-wise into a bunch of 1/2" wide pieces. Then glue these end-to-end so they stay together for the next step, which is to glue them between the veneer layers, end grain facing the veneers. That assembly then gets sliced to form the banding. It is a couple of extra steps over creating long-grain banding, and you end up with pieces that show the built-up nature of the primary wood. And for something like curly maple, you loose seeing the curl.

(Candy, gluing end grain isn't an issue in the case, as you end up re-gluing the slices into the substrate so that you have good face-grain to face-grain glue surfaces.

3) Ignore the issue and hope it works out

4) Choose another design


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## BigRedKnothead

^Quality stuff Mark. Thank you for taking the time.

Kinda cool. I had the first LJ visitor in my shop today. LJ *camps764* stopped by and picked up a hand plane I was selling. Cyber world meets real world. I think our little girls had as much fun as we did.


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## camps764

Was definitely cool to meet Red  As you can see, he dwarfs me. And all of his shop furniture matches! Thanks for the plane and the strop man!


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## CFrye

I had to read it several times Mark but I think I follow you. Thanks for the lesson. "a stable substrate" would be plywood or MDF?


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## theoldfart

Mark, can you post a pic of the floating mount for the top. I'm making a pair of tables with a floating top and a four way bookmatch drawer front from spalted maple.

Red, you can make the panel "float" in a mitered frame, eliminating the stress on the joints:


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## CL810

Falling in Mark's #4 category is how Michael Fortune addresses the issue. The shorter span and break points eliminate expansion concerns. I believe I read somewhere that he said he will not go cross grain more than 12" without a break. I could be wrong on that measurement.


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## Tim457

"Question. Does anyone know of a book that covers geometry as applied to woodworking?"

Clayton, I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for, but ""By Hand and Eye"":https://www.lostartpress.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BK-BHAE from Lost Arts Press might fit the bill. It's all about using proportions and design and using dividers instead of measuring.

Other than that, I'm just going to sit back and watch those more qualified. Working my way up to furniture pieces, but not there yet.


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## CL810

Tim, I've read that book and it is not practical application of geometry to woodworking.


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## BigRedKnothead

Red, you can make the panel "float" in a mitered frame

Yep Kev, that'd be the way to do it. I was just trying to show one of my early bonehead moves.

Still finishing "The Joiner and the Cabinetmaker", next up is "By Hand and Eye." I've heard mixed reviews concerning that one. Hoping it will revolutionize my views on furniture design


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## mds2

Mark Kornell, I really enjoy that table. The design is really good and refreshing.

I built a floating top table from plans as one of my first woodworking projects. Can not find a picture at this time.


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## theoldfart

Red, have both in ebooks. Slowly making my way through them (short attention span). Another interesting book is Mat Bickford's "Moldings in Practice"


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## lysdexic

I asked the question because really I, naively, wanted to learn this craft "self taught." In some ways too much knowledge can be limiting. You don't have to think outside the box if you never create the box, so to speak. But I realize that I have a lot more mechanics too learn if I am going to produce any advanced furniture. This implies depending on plans for a time. I guess.

That said: one of my more "successful" projects is this shelf. It was one of my very first projects. No plans, no pictures, no predecessor that I know of. It received over 44,000 views. I don't know why.










Once I clear out some unfinished projects I'd love to build this. These plans are available from FWW.


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## Tugboater78

lysdexic I missed seeing that, probably got a lot of views cause everyone has a co/lectionary of matchbox…well I don't, my younger au lungs destroyed every one I ever owned.


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## Loren

I think some of you have made a good case for a "furniture making" 
sub-forum with the various tangents on refined aspects of the craft.


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## Loren

If you really want a lot of views build a "Kim Kardashian cabinet" 
or cutout lawn ornament or whatever.


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## ColonelTravis

Mark - great stuff, thanks.

Big Red - I know it's not furniture but your shop's french cleat board is awesome. Would like to do something like that myself.


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## Iguana

Candy - yes, stable substrate is typically MDF or plywood.

OldFart - the supports for the floating top are curved pieces attached to the back of the aprons. They extend inwards, attaching to the underside of the top near the middle. You can see the arms in the full table pic if you look closely, but I'll post something that makes it clearer tomorrow.


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## LakeLover

I am slowly backing up all my digital pics so I can show some pieces I have made.

This thread has made me do a back up long over due. Stay tuned.


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## CL810

Scott I really liked that hall table as well. I look forward to seeing how yours turns out.


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## chrisstef

I enjoy making furniture myself. Hopefully some day ill be able to get my butt back in the shop and actually build some more. One of my early efforts was this cypress storage / breezeway bench.


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## BigRedKnothead

^Nice Stef. Great grain selection on the front. I've never worked with cypress.

ColonelTravis- Thanks. However, it does crack me up that my french cleat board has gotten more attention than anything I've posted on LJs. Some of my furniture took ten times as long to build! Woodworkers just love tricking out their shops…..and checking out each others tools

Wish I had a cool shelf for my hot wheels.


----------



## CFrye

Cl810, RobH posted some links on geometry here
And there is a free PDF here about the Golden Ratio as relates to woodworking.
Hope this is helpful.


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## chrisstef

Red - Its soft, oily, and the grain likes to peel on ya. Doesn't move around too much though even when exposed to lots of temperature changes.


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## BigRedKnothead

Pluggin' away on my knotty alder sideboard. This commission is a good example of the "concessions" one must make when trying to make furniture for others within a budget. When I'm making stuff for myself, I don't care how long it takes. But when you start selling stuff, you become cognizant of the time. Nobody likes working for free. 
These concessions are personal choices I guess. So far I will not forgo mortise and tenon joinery on the casework/carcass. I won't use pocket hole screws on faceframes or other strucural components. However, I don't have a problem using screws (pocket hole or not), dowels, biscuits, on things like dividers, or attaching the bottom. I have no problem using cabinet grade plywood, but I prefer solid wood for door and side panels. 
Anyway, nuf of that. I have a carcass….yay! 

























At this stage, it always feels like, "this is going pretty fast," but then I remember…..doors, drawers, and finishing eat up a lot of hours.

Last, here's a good example of when hand tools are more efficient that power tools. The mighty spokeshave. When making the arches for lower rails (A&C style), I cut the curve with a band saw, then some quick swipes with a spokeshave. Literally, it takes me less than a minute. I used to sand these smooth…way slower.


----------



## lysdexic

Off topic: Rojo- did you stain your garage floor?


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## BigRedKnothead

hehe…..nah brotha. That's just the glory of all my spills and overspray


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## Iguana

Found my construction pics. Here's the underside of the top and the support arms, unassembled:










And the test fitting:










The arms are glued into mortises in the aprons, and screws are used to attach to the top.

Every part was finished and polished out to a high gloss prior to assembly. Had to be careful handling the pieces during glue-up.

And, finally, here's a pic looking inside:


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## Iguana

Red, I like that sideboard. Nicely proportioned. What is the wood in the dark panels?


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## john2005

Like the table Mark.


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## BigRedKnothead

Mark- oh sorry, it's all alder. I pre-stained the solid panels so there won't be any surprises when they expand/contract. Next step is to stain the rest of the case.

The stain is old masters dark mahogany wiping stain per the customers request. I'm not big on stains, but I like this one on the alder.


----------



## rhett

Lots of good stuff on here.

Great progress with the alder cabinet. My only complaint when working with that stuff is the smell.

Very clever lift design, Mark. I like it.

Here's a table I built for a local wildlife centers, silent auction. White oak and walnut. One of my more '"artsy" pieces. It too has a floating top.


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## CL810

Awesomeness, Rhett.


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## vikingcape

Those floating tables are amazing. Maybe when one day when I can cut in a straight line ill give it a try.










Got the dividers in. First time I've ever cut sliding dovetails. And I've only practiced mortise and tenons before and now I cut 12 of them. Surprisingly didn't go too badly. The little wife's dresser is chugging along


----------



## theoldfart

Mark, thanks for the pics, they helped with my design.


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## HorizontalMike

Yep, those floating table tops are great!


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## BigRedKnothead

Nice work Kaleb. Your a brave soul for tackling all of those tough joints so early in your woodworking journey.


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## CL810

Thanks Candy that's exactly what I was looking for!!

Don't know how I missed that earlier but I did. Thanks for responding.


----------



## Mahdeew

This has been awonderful topic and I certainly hope there wii be forum made out of it. Thanks everyone for yur pictur posts; we all can use a bit of insperation. Here is a live edge table I finished a few days ago. About 10 mre to come. More pictures on my project.


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## lysdexic

oops. Wrong thread.


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## Timberwerks

Here is a look at my latest, an origami inspired coffee table.


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## Mahdeew

Awsome


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## hobby1

Kaleb:
Your dresser is coming along nice.
Nice dovetailing.


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## jmartel

I saw that on sawmillcreek, timberwerks. Very impressive.


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## mds2

I just saw that table on twitter! I like the "folded" corner of the slab. What kind of wood is the top?


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## Timberwerks

On twitter? Wonder who posted? The top is spalted maple, base is ebonized ash.


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## Hammerthumb

Red - here is a few of the pictures of Stickley furniture I took at the Marston House in San Diego (Balboa Park). It is reportedly one of the largest collections of Stickley in the world. Sorry about the pic quality, but they keep the house very dark. At least they let you take pictures though.


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## HorizontalMike

Paul,
If you have more images of this great Stickley then please post them! Got me drooling!


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## Hammerthumb

Here is a few more. I really like the Barrister case and the bed.

















!


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## theoldfart

Paul, looks to be more than Gustav alone. Maybe L&JG as well? Any Roycroft?


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## pwgphoto

Love the A&C stuff.


----------



## Hammerthumb

A few more.


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## Hammerthumb

I'm not sure about the bed. Most of what they have there is Stickley but it was a couple of years ago when I was there and did not take notes. They had quite a few Tiffany lamps also. I have a detail picture of the Barrister case that is too fuzzy to post, but it shows how the glass mullions were set into the door frames. My wife asked why I couldn't make something like it. I don't know if you can get the idea from this pic, but it had me wondering how they did it.


----------



## natenaaron

I am now totally discouraged. Too many really nice pieces of furniture here.

How about a "Doh!!! I f#$%ed that up thread." That is one I could participate in.


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## HorizontalMike

Wow! I really like that Stickley Barrister's, with the more traditional doors and much more glass! I am going to have to research THAT one… *8^)*


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## SamuelP

nate- I would be posting to that one.


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## BigRedKnothead

Hammerthumb- thanks for posting that greatness. Let us all raise our hands up and down and give a "we're not worthy".....Wayne's world style The barristers are sweet. I wonder if they don't mortise them that way? Maybe we can find someone who went so far as s-raying the joints as people have done with G&G.

natenaaron- I hope your just goofin. This is totally a thread you're welcome to post on. We've had a lot of posts from experienced woodworkers, but there's room for all skill levels. Nobody wakes up one day wizzin excellence! We all have to work at it. If anybody mocks a newbie on here…I'll give 'em a big red backhand

Seriously though. Not to toot my own horn, but I bet if you asked another woodworker who's been around me or my shop… they'd affirm I go out of my way to help and encourage people starting in the craft. I just remember what it was like.


----------



## vikingcape

Wow some great pictures of some amazing furniture Paul. Nate and Sam I would be on that thread too. Then I think about the interview I saw with Sam Maloof and how he considered one chair to be totally perfect. That means all of the hundreds/thousands of pieces of furniture he built, he felt he could improve. Some of us (me) need LOTS of improvement learning the easy things like how to measure


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Little tidbit: I find the "best of" or "article compilation" books put out by the various woodworking magazines to be very good resources. It's a good way not to have to buy all their magazines. This little book is by far my fav on this subject. 









Probably the best $9 I spent on any woodworking resource. He's an example page. I've made most of the different drawer styles in on this page. And I'm about to try another.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Red. I'll look for that one.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Ya, I got that at our lame local woodworking store years back. Don't know where to get it now.

Made some progress on the sideboard today. As for the "crap, I screwed that up" part of the forum, I had the pleasure of sanding and re-staining one of my side panels today. I saw a big glue line. Ahhh, when will I learn.

Anyway, stained the rest, drilled shelf peg holes. Then I installed dividers and top frame. When installing dividers (or really anything) in casework, I like to cut a scrap and use it as a spacer:









Here's how she looks now. The stain is a little blotchy. But then again, so is all the stuff their builder stained in their home, and it's meant to match. 

















Drawers and doors next.


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## Hammerthumb

Great progress. Sorry about the glue line. Hate it when that happens!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Just started a Christmas project. It will be a new jewelry chest for my wife. First one I made her was in 1999, right before we got married. Here is the bottom and 2 of the columns. Ipe and Maple. I hope to get the back columns and case finished this weekend. Was afrraid of turning the Ipe (it splinters easily) but the columns came out nice.










I have plans to pit brass rings around the narrow portions of the cloumns right above the two long sections.


----------



## ShaneA

The FWW special issues are available through Taunton Press. The ones that are a yr or two older go on "sale" occasionally for 50-75% off. They have a hand tools one, finishing, workbenches, furniture design, and on and on. I have most of them. Good stuff.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice tip Shane. Here's a link to that furniture building book. 
http://www.tauntonstore.com/building-furniture-017021.html

This one looks intriguing as well:









Might have to give that a try after "By hand and Eye." Just finished "The Joiner and the Cabinetmaker." I admit, I didn't care too much for the original text. But I really like the commentary and the 2nd half of the book with C. Schwarz. Thinking about building one of those boxes with my kiddos.


----------



## vikingcape

Most of my clamps in use. I really need to get more. Just tried titebond hide glue for the first time. Used it on all the dovetails. Nice to have more open time. If you guys ever want to send me some…....

That furniture design magazine is nice. Has some good ideas in it


----------



## camps764

That was a great recommendation on the book Red. I picked it up in digital format, it has answered a lot of questions that I had and confirmed some things I have been guessing at.

Almost ordered the Design book too…might in the future depending on your thoughts.


----------



## jmartel

I have that book, BigRed. It's been a while since I read it, but it's basically all the FWW stuff that they ever did on designing projects compiled together.


----------



## b2rtch

Thank you so much for starting this beautiful thread


----------



## Hammerthumb

Just picked this up yesterday. Lots of great projects in it.


----------



## jmartel

BigRed. Is there anything you are specifically looking for in that book? I would be happy to get info for you. I just found my copy today.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Shucks that FWW Furniture design book is already in the mail. Along with a couple others they had on clearance for $2. Gotta love it

Hammerthumb- I missed your post with the Ipe columns. Good stuff. Just don't let the wifey look on our little forum…hehe.


----------



## RPhillips

What's a good resource for learning dovetails, and other types of joinery?

I know how they are made, but not how to make them. lol

I built me a nice box joint jig a few weeks ago for my TS, and I have to say, when I fitted those two pieces together for the first time it was pure bliss.


----------



## CFrye

Did you make your box joint jig from a pattern Rob?


----------



## Iguana

Rob,

Taunton's (FWW) "The Complete Illustrated Guide to Joinery", by Gary Rogowski, is very good. Covers just about any joint you'd care to make as well as where you might want to use the joint. Mostly using power tools, but some coverage of hand tool methods. Lots of pictures, too.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Rob, two books come to mind.

1.) The Joint Book is nothing but how-tos on everything with huge pictures and drawings so dumb people like me can understand.

2.) This isn't exactly what you're looking for but I suggest it to you and everyone else nonetheless. There's a great little book called The Art of Joinery, which was written in the late 1600s BUT updated a few years ago with analysis by Christopher Schwarz BUT which is out of print BUT which a for little bit of time Schwarz let everyone download for free because a 2nd printing would have been too expensive BUT that doesn't exist any more BUT IT'S COMING OUT SOON FOR A 2ND PRINTING because somehow they got the money. You can order now, will ship next month.

Schwarz shows you how he interprets the old techniques and goes through all the stuff from the original book like chisels, planes, mortises, squares, etc. As much as I like electricity, I cannot let myself be ignorant to how things were made through most of human history. With all tools, including power tools, there's a reason why they do what they do. Schwarz describes the book:

This book was not intended for joiners. They would have seen the book as superficial - an outsider's view of the craft told with little detail and subtlety. Yet, "The Art of Joinery" is important - very important - because it is a snapshot of the tools and techniques among English joiners in the 17th century. And we have very few other sources as detailed as Moxon.

In this book, you get an introduction to all the tools in a typical joiner's kit, from the chisels to the hatchet. You get basic - and actually quite good - explanations of how to flatten a board from the rough, how to cut mortise-and-tenon joints and how to lay out and cut miters of all angles.

For me, it it always important to return to Moxon to understand what was important to the 17th-century joiner. Moxon spills tons of ink on the fore plane but says only a few lines about the smoothing plane. Moxon explains how joiners (and blacksmiths) would use coarse tools for as long as possible. He outlines a tool kit that is small and simple.

In other words, Moxon is the closest thing we have to a direct link to the joiners of the 17th century, where everything was made by hand.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Rob, there's a ton of stuff out there on dovetails and other joinery. The hard part is deciphering which technique you wanna use. In addition to the sources mentioned, I found the instruction in Chris Schwarz's books The Joiner and the Cabinetmaker, and The Anarchist's Tool Chest helpful.

If your the type who learns better but watching, there's a lot of stuff on youtube. That madness can be difficult to sort through. A better option would be to join Fine Woodworking's website. There's a ton of good stuff on there. Example:
http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/57008/dovetail-techniques

I'm gonna make some mortise and tenon joints today, so maybe I'll show ya'll how I do those with a mortising machine.


----------



## HorizontalMike

This past week I found another Gem in my gifted-to-me Lifetime WW Books/Magazine Collection. This thing has 512 tips/tricks for the WW'r. Sure I recognized and already use a couple of hundred of those tips already, BUT that still leaves ANOTHER 300 or so I hadn't thought of. This book covers all aspects of WW including design, preparation, joinery, gluing, sanding, finishing, tool prep and maintenance, repairs, etc.

Oh, and the best part is that these tips/tricks average just 1/2 page each. Short and concise.

I truly think everyone will get something out of this book, and since it was first published 15yr ago, you should be able to pick up a copy cheap. Check it out.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Woodworkers-Problem-Solver-Shop-Proven/dp/0875967736#reader_0875967736


----------



## ColonelTravis

A while back I downloaded some of these free podcasts from the Woodsmith Store in Iowa for keeps. There are 44 total and they're all about an hour. Some joinery stuff is in there.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Ahh…I wouldn't trust any of those woodworkers in Iowa

Ok, here's how I make mortise and tenon joints with a dado blade and mortising machine. Even with my zeal for hand tools, I can't get away from this method. It's just so darn efficient and consistent in results.
Also I kinda had *camps764* in mind, since he recently scored a mortising machine off CL. That's a good place to find the little benchtop versions. I can't imagine making chairs or anything with a lot of M&T joints without one.

Here goes. Usually one would make the mortises first then fit the tenons. When you have a mortising machine, you will have very consistant sized mortises. So, what you do is, make a sample block that has each size of your mortising bits like this, and store it with your dado stack:








Now, with a dado installed, measure the length of your tenon, and get the blade height close to what you need to take off each side. Test on a scrap. Preferably a cutoff from the actual stock your using to ensure its exactly the same thickness. Slowly raise the blade until you get a snug fit. Cut all your long shoulders this way.









Sidenot: if this is going to be through tenon, leave it way oversized. You'll want to plane or sand it to final thickness so you don't see the ugly dado grooves.

Raise the blade to desired hight for the shoulders on the short edge of each board. It goes without saying that your miter sled must be deadnuts 90 degrees to your fence and blade.










Now you take your tenons and mark just the length of the mortise. See, you are using the actual tenon to mark the mortise in each location. 









The width, depth, and centered location will be taken care of by the mortising machine. 









With the correct bit installed in the mortising machine, take time to get it centered on the stock.








Drill the mortise staying between the marks.









There you have it.









Any further fitting gets done with these guys.









Apologies for the really long post, but I hope the pics help. You can crank out a whole lotta M&T joints in a hurry this way. I just snapped shots while I was making some doors. Even with machine setup time, I took these shots and made four doors (16 m&t joints) in less than an hour. But I have a good little helper bangin the pieces together for me


----------



## camps764

Thanks for the great post man, this actually is really helpful and timely for me since I'm setting the thing up and getting some jigs squared away.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Cool Steve. Here's a good video mortising machines. Once you get used to them, they're pretty slick.


----------



## CFrye

What's the best way to do mortises without a mortising machine? Drill and chisel?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Candy, a drill press would be even better. Drill a series of holes and chisel the rest. I did it that way for a while.


----------



## vikingcape

I do my mortises with a plunge router. It's quick and easy and I can take the machine to the work, not the opposite. Never tried with chisels, I can just see the blown out pieces I would make…...ouch


----------



## camps764

Candy - You can also chop them completely by hand with a chisel. Here is a video of Paul Sellers demonstrating. It works decently well, but takes a while.


----------



## renners

I swear the hold down, fence and depth stop on my bench top morticer were designed by Fischer Price. Honestly, it's useless. I find it quicker, neater and more accurate to take out the mortice with a plunge router and just use the morticer to square up the corners. A floor standing model is on my wish list for when I have enough floor space for a such a machine. One with a steering wheel.


----------



## knockknock

I don't have a drill press or router, but I do have a cordless drill. I find it easier to keep a mortise chisel aligned and vertical, then my cordless drill. So for smaller mortises (e.g. stiles and rails), I chisel them with a mortise chisel. To help avoid blowout I clamp the piece in a vise or cabinet maker's clamp, and for stiles I leave them long (called a horn) cutting them to length afterwards.


----------



## bondogaposis

What's the best way to do mortises without a mortising machine? Drill and chisel?

I make mine with a plunge router also. So far it is the best use I've found for the plunge router.


----------



## RPhillips

*Red* a big thanks for the info. I've been really looking at getting a couple of book from the Lost Art Press, but so close to Christmas, they will have to wait…

On my short list:

Anarchist Tool Chest
The Art of Joinery
By Hand & Eye
To Make as Perfectly as Possible


----------



## waho6o9

http://logancabinetshoppe.com/blog/2013/03/episode-49-chopping-a-mortise/

http://logancabinetshoppe.com/blog/2013/04/episode-50/

What's the best way to do mortises without a mortising machine? Drill and chisel?

Logan Cabinet Shoppe has techniques to make M & T by hand as well.


----------



## waho6o9

http://www.woodpeck.com/ottmtcentergauge.html









Interesting new tools from American made Woodpeck.com

Oh yeah.


----------



## HorizontalMike

OR, you could build your own mortising machine with a removable router. I spent maybe $100 at the time, maybe $150 now.

You can read my Project posting on this HERE.


----------



## jmartel

Those aluminum bars look nice, Waho, but way too expensive for just marking mortises. If I'm paying over $100 for something, it needs to do more than one thing.


----------



## mds2

I chop out my mortices with a bevel chisel. I chisel my tenons too.

Edit: learned from watching Paul Sellers on youtube, like the video above. He has a few others where he covers each process in more detail


----------



## lysdexic

Mike, I used a horizontal mortiser when I worked with Gregory Paolini. It was VERY handy. What do you use for your loose tenons?


----------



## ColonelTravis

lysdexic - at first I read "horizontal mortiser" as "horizontal monster" because that setup above is a beast. But I love it.


----------



## HorizontalMike

*lysdexic: "...What do you use for your loose tenons?..."*

I use the same lumber as in the current project. Since nearly all of my projects end up as 3/4in dimensional, I nearly always have a 1/4in straight bit (with at least a 1in cutter) in the router. That means I just rip and then plane a piece down to ~1/4in thickness on my lunchbox planer, and then plane to fit.

The mortises are all controlled by setting the stop blocks, and testing the elevation of the mortise itself. Takes some practice each time.

After that, I rip the tenons to width on the TS, and then round over all edges with a 1/4in round-over bit on the table mounted router. I end up with a 2-3ft piece of tenon stock that I can then crosscut into a whole bunch of 2in long floating tenons.


----------



## CFrye

Thanks for all responses! The Paul Sellers video is great! The hand tool method appeals to me…Hmmm


----------



## david_larch

This is a great thread. I love furniture design and am especially taken with mid century and Danish furniture, as I am restoring a mid century house.

I recently completed this little project. The base is a walnut dowel base for a Herman Miller / Eames fiberglass chair base. The box is solid walnut. Each piece is mitered on all four sides and the joints are reinforced with Dominoes. The drawer is rabbet / groove on walnut slides. Finish is Arm R Seal. I have since added the drawer pull.


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## lysdexic

David, that is awesome. I just had to look up your inspiration piece.


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## lysdexic

David,

Let me ask you a question with no right or wrong answer. How did you decide on the proportions? Why is the box the size that it is?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Beautiful work there David. Bet the chair would go for a pretty penny these days.


----------



## renners

That is a sweet, sweet looking project David, great work.


----------



## david_larch

*lysdexic* you hit on the sweet spot with that question. Its not exactly what I planned, as I had a glitch in production, but here was the rationale;

Those chairs sit closer to 16" off the ground than todays 18" typicals. So I had originally planned to go with the box at 16" x 16" by 4" interior height to keep everything proportional. It ended up at 16" x 22" (or 24" I cant remember) by 4" interior height. I freestyled it to make it a little wider for "usefullness" purposes. I also used a 7/8" spacer in between the base and box to match our furniture height.


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## Hammerthumb

Even with your "freestyle" the proportions came out beautifully. This is a well executed piece of art furniture.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Re: Mortises….Righty-O folks. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Even with a "hand tool only" approach, you can do it several ways. I've done a few with the router and loose tenons. For example, chair rails with angled tenon….that's the way to go.

Candy- it's kinda fun chopping them out by hand. But if your making a dining set, with 20 mortises per chair….well that's when I wuss out

Renners- my mortising machine is a shopfox(grizzly). It's no powermatic. It can be finicky, but too bad. I'd love to have a floor-standing model.

david larch- That thing is a beaut. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## widdle

what a trip..im sitting on one of those chairs above as we speak..trippy..


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## Hammerthumb

So, a little more progress on the jewelry case.


























The side panel is actually a door. It will have them on both sides. The area behind it is about 1-1/4" deep that will be used for neckless storage. Hope to have both doors glued up tonight. Made an interesting dicovery this weekend though. I became allergic to Ipe. I always wear a dust mask but now I have to use a canister type. Had a really bad asthma attack late Saturday. Oh well, I started with this wood so now I stuck finishing it.


----------



## CFrye

Point taken Red! Paul that is scary! You are *NOT* stuck with it. I'm sure your wife would rather have you around than another jewelry box. Take care of you! BTW that is a beautiful purpleheart jointer plane that just happened to be in the pictures. Is it getting acclimatized to the dry air?


----------



## CFrye

I meant to add: Beautiful table David!


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## theoldfart

Paul, I live on Advair Diskus so I can say listen to Candy. The effects are cumulative when you are that sensitive. use your plans and make it from some other wood. The design is looking great!

David, those are awesome mitres!


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## smokey1945

Paul I'm really sorry about your health problems. I have COPD and what theoldfart said is true! But Don't quit on it as it is going to bee beautiful. Just set it aside until you can get a canister type. Also please explain for us old dumb people (like me) how you formed the braces behind the columns. And did you change your mind on the rings? Thank you.

Red….thank you very much for starting this thread. I can learn a lot from it if it is not ruined by the warmongers!
Smokey1945


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## Hammerthumb

Thanks everyone for your concern. I have had allergic asthma for years. Some woods bother me and I stay away from them. I can make one rip on the TS with Masseranduba and have an immediate reaction. I have installed, sanded, and finished thousands of feet of Ipe flooring with no problem, until this weekend. I used my respirator this evening and didn't have a problem. I did a little cleanup yesterday and was in the shop for about 20 mins with just a dust mask and started to feel the effects. Just have to finish the project with more gear on my head. It will slow me up a little but I can get it done. Thanks for all the kind thoughts.

Smokey - the corners behind the columns is an old trick with the tablesaw. You clamp 2 guide rails on each side of the blade at an angle. I use 2 pieces of 4/4 stock. Put a little wax on the rails to help the material slide easily. The width between the two tracks is the same width as the material you are going mill. I used a 2"x2" block for the material. I then cut one of the corners off, almost making a triangular piece. With the tablesaw blade barely raised, you run the material through between the tracks. Raise the blade another 1/8" or so and run it through again. Keep doing this until you get to the desired depth. A wider angle will give you a larger diameter. A word of caution though, do not try this from this description. I will post some pictures this weekend of how it is done. It can be a very safe operation if done right and I think seeing it done before trying it from what I have written is advisable. I would not want anyone to get hurt from my lame expainations.

Thanks again for the kind words and suggestions. By the way, I did get one of the raised panels glued up this evening. I'll get the other side finished tomorrow and post another progress pic.


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## john2005

In regards to mortise machines, I just have one of those kits that you fit to your drill press. For those of you who have never used one of those, it is best to just let the tree grow a mortise, than it is to set one of those up and use it. Takes about the same amount of time and usually have the same chance of getting it right. Every now and again I score, but most times it suuuuucks. Whatever thats worth


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## smokey1945

Paul thank you, I thought that might be the way you did it, but I've never seen one. So I will definitely e watching for your shots!

John thank you for the humorous description of how the mortise kit works. :O) It has been in the back of my mind for years. No more!
Smokey1945


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## bondogaposis

Here is the progress on the "Lost Stickley" table I am working on. It is just dry fit in the picture. I have to make two lower stiles and a stretcher yet. It is from Bob Lang's latest book, Classic Arts and Crafts Furniture. So far it has been quite challenging w/ the angled mortises.


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## Hammerthumb

Nice work Bondo. How did you handle the grain pattern on the legs - locking miter, veneer? Cant tell from the picture.


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## bondogaposis

I veneered them.


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## b2rtch

Hammerthumb, do you have a air cleaner in your shop? 
I made one and I use it and it makes a world of difference for me. 
Before the air cleaner , stepping in the shop in the morning was enough to get me sneezing and coughing, no longer.
If you do not have one, make one.

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/45679


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## RPhillips

"Nice work Bondo. How did you handle the grain pattern on the legs - locking miter, veneer? Cant tell from the picture."

Wish this made sense to me… lol

I'll get there in all due time. For right now, I'd just be happy to get my cross cut sled squared up.


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## chrisstef

Rob - I think theyre getting at having the same grain pattern showing on all four legs. If you miter 4 small pieces together youd have face grain on all sides. Veneering would prove the same. If you used typical stock, no miters, you will have edge grain showing on 2 sides.


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## Hammerthumb

Bert - I read your blog a few months ago on how to make one, but have not had the time to put one together. One of the things on my to-do list. I might PM you for advise once I get started. Thanks


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## CFrye

I'm right there with you Rob! Stef, or anyone, in some woods is it not the same?


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## RPhillips

But wouldn't the end grain be on the top and bottom (as pictured) of the legs and face grain remain on all 4 sides? This is where I'm confused…


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## lysdexic

Rob, you are correct the END grain will be at the top and bottom. However with the typical leg two faces will be FACE/Flat grain and two faces will be EDGE grain. In Arts and Crafts furniture you try to maximize the edge grain (cut perpendicular to the rings) of oak because of the medullary rays.

Thus you can miter the leg so the edge grain and the rays are exposed on all four sides or you can veneer quarter sawn for the same result.

Clear as mud.


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## ColonelTravis

Question for the experts - you're making something with large(ish) panels like a table top or cabinet sides, etc. How do keep these large panels from warping while building everything else? Or is it even a problem?


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## RPhillips

*Lysdexic* - thanks got it now! Still so much to learn…


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## ScomelBasses

Great thread! Hopefully I will have something to contribute in a few weeks. I'm starting a sideboard table for my wife.


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## Hammerthumb

Colonel - not sure what you mean by warping. Is this after you have glued up stable rips into a panel? Is it flat material to start with? I am no expert but when I make a large glue up panel, I use hand planes to remove any warp from one side of each piece. Then I joint that face and one edge of each board, and then run the opposing side and face thru the tablesaw and planer respectively. I do this leaving the material oversized in length, thickness, and width. I will then let the material rest for a few days and repeat the same process to final dimension. This is to make sure each edge is at 90deg before glue up. Use cauls when gluing up panels to keep them flat. Glue them up on a flat reference surface (benchtop) also. If you do not use cauls, excessive clamping pressure might give you the warp you are talking about. I dont alway use cauls. it depends on the size of the panel. The larger the panel, the more they are necessary.

Hope this helps.


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## RPhillips

Where do most of you guys get your plans? Online, books, self made plans, or wing it?

I ask because I want to start a project and I'm not sure exactly where to start. My wife wants a console to store some stuff in and use for a place to put the kids TV and game systems. I built a Apothecary style console that came out very good, but it wasn't built using proper jointing or materials. I was thinking about re-building the same console, but better, but part of me want's to do something else.

Here's a pic of the console I made, it's a Pottery Barn clone that I found online.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Rob, that's good stuff there!

Haven't built a bunch of furniture yet, but no plans with what I have done. A sketch, an idea, but not a cut list / plan per se.


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## BigRedKnothead

bondo- great work there. I almost brought up angled tenons the other day when we were talking about M&T joints. Those angled buggers can be intimidating. When I made my dining chairs, I used loose tenons like this:









Much easier to get the shoulders of the tenon angled that way. Angled mortises aren't too bad, just put an angled wedge under your mortising machine or router setup.

Rob- woodsmith's site called plansnow.com is decent. That's where I got the plans for my kids beds. Otherwise I got back to those compilation books put out my the mags. Here's another I like:


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## bondogaposis

"Nice work Bondo. How did you handle the grain pattern on the legs - locking miter, veneer? Cant tell from the picture."

Wish this made sense to me… lol

Rphillips,

A&C furniture most often uses quarter sawn white oak and on Stickley pieces they tried to show quarter sawn grain on on all four sides of the leg which is an impossibility unless an extra step is taken to either miter the legs together or glue some veneers on to the plain sawn sides of the leg. I will try to post a picture tomorrow of the end of the legs so you can see what I did. Right now, I just got back from hunting and I am too tired.


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## BigRedKnothead

^My kinda guy bondo. 'bout that season. I've been putting in some serious hours on the railroad lately. Little pooped myself.

Colonel- How to keep tabletops and such flat? I can't answer it any better than these guys
http://www.finewoodworking.com/media/TabletopsFlat.pdf


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## ColonelTravis

BigRed -thanks, that's very useful. The reason I asked is that I was in the garage last night working on some stuff and found a piece of scrap plywood was cupped bad. I've got shelves on the wall for long boards and I keep the plywood off the floor (except this piece, I don't know what it was doing out or for how long.)

But since I don't make furniture for a living I can't get to projects every single day, some pieces will sit. I plan to make a few tables in the near future - not out of plywood - and I wondered if I work on those, then let them sit, then work on them, then let them sit, etc., is this bad? I don't mean sit for months. But the garage isn't heated, isn't cooled, it's just a garage. Not just that, but I wonder if the boards on the shelves will ultimately warp bad if one side of them is exposed and the other isn't? Is it a good thing to cover the wood, or flip it over every now and then?

Storage and moisture - what to do, what to do? Boils down to that, I guess.


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## Iguana

Rob, I'm sure your joinery and materials are at least on par with what Pottery Barn sells, if not considerably better. Don't rebuild it; take what you know now and build something else.


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## waho6o9

"I ask because I want to start a project and I'm not sure exactly where to start."

I'd start with paper and pencil and put thought to a drawing a piece that would
suite your needs. Keep drawing, erasing, and adding things until you find something
that will work for you.

Then we can help you with the cut list, joinery, etc…

HTH


----------



## CL810

Interesting book review.


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## Mahdeew

I have this on my site. Like to get your opinion on it. I've never used a pattern and normally don't even copy my own work.


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## RPhillips

Thanks for the info, I don't know too much about furniture designers, such as Stickley, so this is very much appreciated.

I guess another thing I need to think about it what style of furniture I want to build. I like many different styles of furniture design. We did modern when me and my wife were younger in our first house, but we tend to side with things that look more "Rustic", warm, and comfy now days.

and I have no idea what style "Rustic" is… lol


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## waho6o9

Here's another source of information. 
Don't know much about it though.


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## CFrye

mrjinx007 that desk is beautiful AND it cracks me up! Love it!!


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## bondogaposis

Ok, here is the picture of how the legs are constructed on the Lost Stickley Table as promised. Each leg is 2 pieces of 4 quarter stock glued to together and then 2 pieces of 1/8" veneer are glued over the seam and will yield 1/4 sawn figure on all 4 sides of the leg. I intend to chamfer all 4 corners of the leg to further conceal the seam that the veneer creates on the sides of the legs.


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## CFrye

Bondo, that is so much simpler than what I was imagining! Thanks, (Visual learner here).


----------



## pintodeluxe

Here is another way to get quartersawn grain on all 4 sides.








This is cherry, but locking miters make a nice joint too.


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## BigRedKnothead

^Yup pinto. That's the pimp way of doing it…..lol.

Rob- when you find yourself checking out everything your library has on the Arts and Crafts movement…your in trouble.

waho- Is that a new magazine?

Mrjinx- Did "Boss Hogg" order that That desk is pretty cool. Probably a smaller pool of people who go for that style. But I imagine those who do….really like it. It has "custom" written all over it.

Colonal- as far as the plywood goes. I too have had plywood warp and go crazy in my rack. But it's always the lower grade BORG stuff. I've never had that problem with A1 cabinet grade stuff. The "Goldply" brand is really good stuff. I just don't think the cheaper stuff is properly dry to begin with. 
I don't snub plywood(A1 grade) as strongly as others. Sometimes with certain budgets, skill level ect….plywood is just the ticket. Good example- my dining table. I plan to replace it someday, but it's worked out just fine. Doesn't look too bad either:









Shop moisture and proper lumber storage is a big topic. My shop (below) is also just a garage. I don't even have window. But since it's under the house, it stays pretty close to indoor temp and moisture in there. I took some measures to seal the cinder block walls this past year. And I've kicked around getting a shop dehumidifier. I dunno. But I've become a believer in trying to keep your shop and lumber somewhat close to the conditions that your furniture will spend it's days. Indoors, that is.


----------



## Mahdeew

Thanks CFrye. It is a funny looking heifer.


----------



## Mahdeew

BigRed, I am thinking a cow rancher in TX or Montana will admire the desk.


----------



## jmartel

The locking miter joint is what I was planning on doing for my Morris Chair legs. I don't think the wife would like the cost of solid 3" or 4" walnut legs.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Mr Jinx - that is a really cool table. Definately made me laugh also. Very nice work.

Rob - wood mc can be critical when storing. I dont really have the same problems that others have as the climate that I work in (desert) does not have the usual temprature swings that other areas see. Also, it stays pretty dry here. I think one consideration would be winter time when you go in and heat the shop to work, and then it cools when you leave (talking about snow country) which can create condensation and an excessively humid environment. Red is correct that he has an advantage that his living space is over his shop, so the shop does not see the temp swings that others might experience. Don't know if this is your climate, but it is something to consider.

Guys, if you all find that I get long winded - just tell me to shut up. Bad habit of mine.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Hammerthumb- lol. I feel like I'm long winded on LJs too. Can't help it. It's my favorite subject. I'm here to help and be helped. It's difficult to achieve that briefly

Jmartel- another option is mitered splines. That's what I used on my newel post.










Then you don't need a fancy router bit. Just a tablesaw.


----------



## jmartel

That's a good option as well. I'll have to consider it.

I need to either learn how to sew, or find some cheap cushions on craigslist when I do make it. I was going to have my mother do it, since she has an industrial sewing machine for making boat covers, but she can't really do much right now whilst going through chemo.

Hell, I still need to get back to my coffee table before I can think about doing the morris chair.


----------



## lysdexic

Red, have you done any splayed leg work (have fun with that one)?

I am pondering my next project and wonder what or how to attack the joinery. Square joinery then cut the taper or cut the taper and hand cut the skewed mortise and tenon.


----------



## Mahdeew

jmartel, I am really sorry about your mom. Uphosrary is another art form that require some skills with the sewing machine. I used to charge $1 a button for a couch button . And I have re-upholstered several car seats. Take care of your mom and forget the rest.


----------



## ShaneA

Keep em square as long as possible, is my vote. Lots easier to register and repeat cuts off traditional square stock.


----------



## lysdexic

I think that I agree with you Shane as long as the taper is not too acute of an angle. The joint will shorten when cut but as long as I plan loose tenons and make the mortises (morti) a bit deep then it should be the easiest way to go.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Scotty- I did make a table like that back in the prelumberjockistic days. And I was pretty happy with my results when I made the joint, but I didn't use loose tenons.

Really, if you remember back to my post with the mortising machine/dado blade pics, I did it much the same way. I still used a dado blade and auxiliary fence to cut the tenon. The difference is, say I cut the apron at 10 degrees, then I used the same setup with my miter sled on the dado blade setup. Hugging the fence all the while.

After that, I cut the top and bottom shoulder by hand to create "cosmetic shoulder" as described below. The top and bottom edge of the tenon were angled so they would fit in regular square mortise. Lemme know if your not pickin up what I'm puttin down and I'll make you a demo pic.










I did like this approach, and I'll use it again. However, loose tenons will work too.


----------



## Iguana

Lysdexic - square joinery, then taper. And use loose tenons - way easier to get the dimensions accurate across all the angled pieces.


----------



## waho6o9

Interesting concept Mark, thanks for sharing.


----------



## lysdexic

Thanks for the input fellas. The project in mind is a coffee table from the cedar scrap left over from the back porch project. I want to utilize the Domino.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Scotty, if you have a domino, the loose tenon approach would be the way to go…..as the survey says

Still pluggin away on the sideboard. I think this is the first set of doors where I was successful smoothing them entirely with hand planes. Softer wood helps.
Don't know if hand planes are faster than sanding in every circumstance. But I sure enjoy the process more.


----------



## CFrye

Nice shavings there Red. And the door looks good too.


----------



## HarveyDunn

That is a beautiful chair. Did you do the upholstery yourself? I've always wondered how much knowledge of that subject is required before you can design a piece intended for someone else to upholster for you.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Candy. On to the drawers now.

Harvey- Nah, I had an upholsterer sew the cushions. I brought him the chair, the leather hide and a couple of pics of morris chairs so I could show him how I wanted the cushions. He did a great job, and it was very reasonable. 
Funny sidenote- when I came to pick it up, he had fallen asleep in the chair watching tv in his shop


----------



## CL810

Heck Red, any good upholsterer always breaks in the cushion!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I just laughed and thought, "At least I know it's comfortable!"

I really like using wood slides for drawers. Usually I just make a little jig to rout out the slide. If there's a better way, I haven't figure it out yet.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Red - good stuff, thanks for the input.


----------



## RPhillips

*Red* wish I could swing by there and learn as you build that.


----------



## Randy_ATX

I've been enjoying lurking on forum topic for a while. Figured I would drop this here first and see what kind of feedback I get before possibly posting in a new forum. I've got some salvaged wood - old long leaf pine, beams and planks. I will be building a table for my home office. The idea I really want to go with is in the attached drawing. I want through tenons so the tops of the legs are exposed as in the drawing. I want to do this without aprons or other crossbeams if possible. My question is the strength of this design to resist racking. Any feedback is appreciated.


----------



## CFrye

I don't know the answer Randy. I do think the dimensions are probably important. I think your diagram says '3" cheeks on top of leg tenons' is this correct? How thick is the table top?


----------



## Randy_ATX

Candy - 1 " cheeks in from the outside of the legs and the depth of the tenon would match the thickness of the table top which will be just under 2".


----------



## Iguana

Randy,

Given how soft pine is, Even a 2" tenon cheek will not have a lot of resistance against racking. And certainly over time, the joint will loosen.

If you want an apronless, stretcherless design, I'd suggest adding some triangle braces where the legs meet the top. Two braces each leg, maybe 3"x3", they could go on the inside or outside faces of the legs, depending on the look you want. If you're set on having just a 1" overhang, you put them on the inside, of course.


----------



## SHMWP

Great looking work everyone. I have just been getting back into the wood shop recently and already have a request from my two grand daughters. We want Bunk Beds for Christmas Papa! And its 10/26/2013. I don't have time to draw up a set of plans and make them. Does any of you have a picture and a set of plans you would like to share?

Jim


----------



## Randy_ATX

Mark, thanks for the ideas. I should have said this is pretty hard pine - old heart pine the tightest growth rings i've ever seen. I should have gave some dimensions - legs are about 5×5 beams and top is about 2" thick.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Rob- Shoot I'd have fun teachin' ya what little I know. But that's the darn thing about LJs….most of us are so far apart. Guess I'll just keep postin

Randy- I pretty much agree with Mark. The stability of the design worries me a bit. If not corner braces, you could at least peg the tenons like I did on my joinery bench:









Jim- I made this bunkbed (and a loft bed) for my kiddos. I got the plans and hardware from woodsmith's site plansnow.com. Well worth it. A pretty straight forward build.


----------



## Randy_ATX

Now we are on to something - I really like the idea and looks of those pegs. Thanks Red!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Randy, just be more careful drilling them than I was. You can see the peg on the left is 1/16" higher….and it drives me friggin nuts….lol.

Another idea would be to wedge the through tenon (dissected pic below).


----------



## bondogaposis

My question is the strength of this design to resist racking. Any feedback is appreciated.

You are right to question the racking strength of this design. I believe racking will be a serious problem, that is the reason most tables have aprons.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Good looking door Red. Takin some nice shavings there. I would have to agree on the stability for those through tenon legs. Reds got a great solution. Maybe two pegs on the front side and another peg a little lower on the side.

A little progress on the Christmas project. Frame and panel back. Frame and panel on the sides are really doors.










Took a few shavings myself.










This is the back of the side compartments and will be rabbeted into the cove pieces.


----------



## theoldfart

Paul, looks good. Glad your not wheezing any more!


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## BigRedKnothead

Jeepers Paul, that is looking sweet!

Rob- here's what the drawer slides look like if you were wondering. They double as the drawer stops:









Drawers and doors are fitted and stained. I've heard it said that A&C furniture is unforgiving to make….and it's true. There are no trims and moldings to hide your screwups. The joinery is often exposed. Inset drawers and doors require precision. If your faceframe and casework aren't dead square, you will pay for it later….and so on. But I still love it.

Here's fitting the doors. I'm using non-mortising hinges that are 1/8" thick. So that the reveal I'm going for. 









Just he the top left to go. It's going to be a copper framed panel….dum, dum, dummmm.


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## mds2

BigRed, I'm probably going to copy your drawer slides from now until forever. Great simple solution.


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## lysdexic

Rojo- is that drawer slide tapered like a dove tail or are the sides parallel? Can you show the matching groove on the drawers?


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## RPhillips

Thanks Red, so is that a dado that the guide sits in? Looks like it would give you the ability to adjust where it stops the drawer from sliding in.


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## BigRedKnothead

mds- Oh I can't take credit, I saw them in FWW or somewhere

Rob- yep, that a dado made of alder cutoffs. The slide is oak or whatever hardwood cutoffs I have. And yes, this setup is nice because you can adjust where the drawer stops easily. There are some tricks to installing them efficiently. I can go into that if you guys would like.

Lys- The side are parallel. Here's what the drawer side looks like.


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## b2rtch

Paul you could make a air cleaner for your shop in only a few hours, may be 3 or 4 and that would not only change your life in the shop but also do good to your lungs.
Without wanting to be too pushy, I believe that should make this project your #1 priority.
Find a used furnace blower first (I got mine for free) , then the switch to select the speed ( I got mine on Ebay) and then buy the filters at Lowes or HD or even on Amazon and just do it!


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## RPhillips

sure. I'm interested in hearing it Red


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## Mahdeew

I made a set of bunk beds for my kids about 18 years ago. It is fairly simple to make. Used 4×4 oak for the legs. Side rails have a lip to hold the bed boards. 1" dowels secure the top bed to the bottom bed. Will post a picture later.


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## mds2

Red im interested too. I'm planning on making a bunch of drawers soon.


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## dbray45

I like your design Red. It is different from what I have used in the past. Is yours adjustable?


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## CFrye

Tuned in for tutorial Red!


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## Mahdeew

Sorry, some of the pictures are side ways. Hope it helps. You may want to make two of these as both kids probably want the top bunk initially.


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## Hammerthumb

Bert - thanks for the concern for my health, and the air filtration system. It will be first on my list of things to do after I finish this Christmas gift. Just to let you know, I have been wearing my respirator and besides the neighbors thinking I am a space alien, it has worked well and I have had no problems.

Red - nice work on the doors. Your almost home with that one. I got a couple of weeks left on this project.

Smokey - this is in response to your post #197.

I start with square stock that I laminated, trying to keep the grain pattern matched up. I use urethane glue for the laminations as it is real strong and makes an invisible glue joint. These pieces were then milled to 2"x2". Make sure they are square.










Then I cut a corner off leaving about 3/4" of 2 sides.










Then to the setup on the table saw. Start with the blade raised only about 1/8" to 3/16".










A larger angle wil give you a wider cove. There is a couple of calculators on the internet that can give you the angle for the shape of the cove, but usually I just wing it. You will be taking many passes so adjustments can be made between passes. I check for adjustments for centering after the first pass. As you can see, my first pass is slightly off.


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## Hammerthumb

After a few adjustments and a few passes, I have it where I want it and continue to raise the blade about 1/8" each pass.










And finally I reached the desired cove depth.










A couple of tips:

1. Do not rush the process and be very careful.
2. Put a direction arrow on the piece so you only run it thru in one direction. That is important on the first few passes when you are adjusting for center. 
3. Make sure the runners are flat and true (jointed) to keep the material from pinching while pushing it through.
4. Wax the sides of the runners prior to setting them up. It helps the piece slide more easily through the runners.
5. When preparing the stock, make a couple of extra blocks to use for spacers when setting up the runners. 
6. Don't set the runners to squeeze the stock too tight as it will make pushing it through more difficult and this makes it more dangerous. I leave about 1/32 to 1/64 extra space.

Have fun, and be safe.


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## smokey1945

Paul thank you so much. I have been watching for that all weekend. It makes it look so smooth appealing! I have it bookmarked. :O)
Smokey


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## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Paul. I have seen that technique…but haven't tried it yet.

Alrighty folks, I try to 'splain my wood drawer slide process.

First, find a hardwood in your rack that would be good for the slides. I used some 5/4 red oak in this case. Then, make a jig that will fit that stock snugly. Make the jig so the groove is centered on the drawer side, so it will work on both sides of the drawer. For the jig I use scrap plywood, brads, and a tablesaw for the jig. Takes a couple minutes:









After you have your grooves in you drawer sides, find some stock to make your tracks (below). I use a dado blade. You want these to fit your oak slides snugly as well. 









Now for the install. With the drawer in place, you'll need to do some figuring to see how wide your oak slides need to be. The space on the left of the drawer might not be the same as the space on the right. Figure the best you can. Error on the big side. You can always plane the oak slide down.

Then, it's tricky, but you need to get the drawer in place with both tracks and slides in place on each side. Now level out the drawer as best you can with a square, or whatever reference point you have. Take a pencil and mark where the track is towards the back of the case. Always start with the back. Just needs to be close. 









Screw in the back track according to you marks. Put in all back in and shim your drawer so the reveal is good around the front. Mark the front edge. Screw in the front part of the track and check. If it's not good the first shot, no biggie. Your pencil line is a reference. Remove the screw and adjust accordingly….til you get it. 









Now the stops. The oak slides are sill loose. Let the drawer push them back to the right spot (flush face). Mark if you can. I usually just stick a ruler down, hold it in place while I remove the drawer. You should only have to do this once. Use your square as a gauge for the others. Yes, I really have that many freckles









That's pretty much it. To get the drawer running smoothly. I'll usually remove the oak runner one at a time and plane them to precision. The least amount play…the better. Too much slop makes them slide worse.

And if your doing stacked drawers, like on a dresser or tv stands below…do the bottom first. Then try to makes some scrap to use as spacers building upward. Don't forget to rub some paraffin wax on dem slides.









Anyway. Hope it helps. If I save ya'll some of the time and frustration it took me to learn this…it's worth it. I can make/install wood slides faster than most metal slides now. 
All that said, if anyone has ways to improve, I'm all ears.


----------



## camps764

Been working away on an A&C library table to replace our junky glass and metal computer desk.

FINALLY did the dry fit of all the components tonight.



















This is by far the most complex build I've done to date - there is a ton of joiner in this thing. I started the project doing my M&T joints with a combination of router and chisels. The last handful have been done using a mortising machine. What a time saver!

There are a few joints that will need to be fixed up and fine tuned. I'm sure I'll be the only one who ever notices them. The top also still needs some flattening. It was done before I had a jointer. So all hand plane work to get it to this point. Now it's too big for my machines, so I'll finish it out with hand planes.

Here are some shots of everything laid out on the bench and the initial dry fits.




























joinery details 









the initial stages of dry fit


















I was really excited to get it all put together and see it as a piece of furniture and not just a bunch of pieces. 
I'll be happy to wrap this one up and get it in the house.

Not looking forward to taking it apart for the final sanding though.


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## b2rtch

Steve,
Wonderful, thank you for posting


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## CFrye

Thank you Paul and Red! So simple even a cave (wo)man can do it! ;-) The trick will be finding it when I get to that point on a build. 
That's a great looking desk Steve! Looking forward to seeing it finished.


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## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Steve-O. Your hooked. A joiner in the making. There's no turning back even if you tried


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## vikingcape

Steve that looks like a great build. Can't wait to see the finished product


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## camps764

Thanks guys and gals  I can't wait to see it done either.


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## BigRedKnothead

I was flipping through my copy of Sam Maloof's book Woodworker, and came across my favorite part:

"Too often we who make objects- and I speak of all media- become quite taken with what we have done. We accept all credit, all praise. We become smug and conceited. I believe no man has ever designed anything that approaches the complexity of the simplest flower or the grandeur of the great redwood tree. Good is the Creator of things, and the beauty He has given us is awesome." -Sam Maloof

Whether you agree with Sam's beliefs or not, you can't help but recognize his humility. I just love that this quote is from a man who was ten times the furniture maker I will ever be.


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## john2005

Love that tablesaw trick Paul. Thats how I made the crown on this mantle.










I went about 4.5 inches wide though. Tech tip, go to auto store, get bondo (I work at an auto body shop so I skipped step 1, then pour some "mud" on wax paper in your form. Presto, custom sanding block.

p.s. Yes Red, Knotty Alder


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## john2005

Oh yeah, and heres the before


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## CFrye

Great quote Red!
Wow what a difference John! Beautiful work!


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## Hammerthumb

I agree with Candy, that is a great quote. An Red, who is to say with your progression as a furniture maker that you will never achieve that level. It is something to strive for!

Nice mantle John. Yeah, I have used that setup to make cornice moldings, base boards, and other things. I like the bondo trick. Time saver for sure. For the pieces I made, I just turned a piece of wood to fit the cove, but for larger coves I'll have to borrow that one from you.


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## Hammerthumb

By the way John, what is the marble that you used on the fireplace? Looks like Emprador Light. Looks much better that the raw stone.


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## b2rtch

John, Thank you for the inspiration, this very exactly what I need to do to the fireplace in my living which is just as ugly as yours before.
Did you glue the mantel to the wall?


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## CFrye

I haven't tried this but remember reading about coving a piece of scrap the same as your finished molding and gluing a piece of sandpaper to it. Then run styrofoam over it to get the profile. Glue sandpaper to the styrofoam and sand away. Not as durable as the plaster version I'm sure. May be more feasible for a small project?


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## BigRedKnothead

"An Red, who is to say with your progression as a furniture maker that you will never achieve that level. It is something to strive for!"

Your right Paul, it is something to strive for. I have a theory about that though. Even if you take talent/giftedness out of the equation (tough to do), the rest is just plain work. We all have to invest hours of work, just as Mr. Maloof did. I believe it will be tough for a hobbyist like me to ever get to that level because I'm only able to commit 10-20 hours a week to the craft. Whereas a full-timer could invest 50-60hrs.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. I've got a pretty good gig. I don't need the cash from woodworking to pay my bills. Actually I usually just invest it back into my shop. And I still think I can be a pretty decent furniture maker one day.

"See, I observed Escher
I love Basquiat
I watched Keith Haring
You see I studied art
The greats weren't great because at birth they could paint
The greats were great cause they paint a lot"
-Macklemore


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## jmartel

Practice makes perfect, so long as you're practicing it correctly.

I'm still pretty green to this hobby, but I can tell that I'm slowly getting better. I'm making a bit of money off of it, which is all going towards my tool/wood purchase (and occasionally to motorcycle stuff) for now. For instance, a coworker of mine is going to be getting $300 worth of stuff from me to give away as christmas gifts. Plus, my realtor might be having be make them some built-ins. Meeting up with them tomorrow to discuss it with them and price it out.

And I love Macklemore.


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## john2005

Thanks guys.

Paul, I don't know what marble it is. Just big box stuff. The mother in law bought it and I spent a half hour or so getting the pieces to match as best possible. Then stuck it on with no grout line.

Bret, the whole thing is screwed to the wall. And not as many screws as you would think. There is one large steel reinforcement that the mantle sits on, the two sides are key-holed to the wall and everything else is either glued or screwed from the back. You can pop 2 23ga pins at the bottom, those 2 bottom caps pop off and from there the rest will just unscrew. I wanted it to be serviceable and be able to move with the heat. Couple years later, still lookin good.


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## Hammerthumb

Red, I already think you are a pretty decent furniture maker. I know what you mean about investing the time though. In the last few years I have not been taking on any commisions. I do the work in my shop for my enjoyment and relaxation time. Also as a creative release. Most everything I make becomes a gift to someone, but I don't enjoy woodworking as much when I am constrained by a deadline or someone elses design. I don't work in my shop as much as I used to. Rarely during the week, and on weekends when I am not golfing. I maybe average 15 to 20 hrs a week. I think my skills would improve if I spent more time, but I am not as driven as I use to be. Maybe its just me getting a little past middle age. I'm glad I found this forum as I receive encouragement and inspiration from all of the people visiting the site.

Oh, and you guys do provide plenty of entertainment!


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## TechRedneck

Red:

Just found this thread and went through the entire thing tonight. Your drawer slide demo is just what I was looking for in my latest project. Not much out there on simple wood slides. It is my opinion that a nice piece should have good fitting wood slides. I use and like metal slides for cabinet work, but fine furniture heirloom quality stuff, just cries out for wood.

Great thread BTW!


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## BigRedKnothead

Tech- thanks, and agreed about the wood slides. People are even surprised by how well the work.

John - forgot to say I like your fireplace too. There's one in my basement with painted volcano rock that could use a makeover like that

Jmartel&Paul- I've been going at it for about 5 years. More seriously the past two. Don't think you'd find any of my stuff in FWW by any stretch. But I'm getting better all the time. I lack motivation in some areas…but never woodworking for some reason. My neighbor says I'm "full uh piss 'n vinegar." lol

The sideboard is getting close. Most probably know this trick, but it's helpful. Double sided carpet tape is the trick to getting holes marked on hinges. Mount the hinge to the door. Push it firmly in place. The hinge will hold so you can open the door and mark the screw spot with an awl. 









The top of this piece will have a framed patina copper panel. Here some shots of that.Basically I sanded copper sheeting so it would adhere.










Use contact cement and lay it just like formica to some plywood. Snip/file the edges flush.










Sand and get any contaminants off the copper. 








Then the patination process. I use stuff called "liver of sulfer"(smells like a million monkey farts) and a vinegar/salt mixture. I did it today and it looks sweet. Way better than my first attempt. I might save the reveal for the project post though. Gotta hold back a little somethin';-)


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## camps764

too cool brother. That thing has come a long way just since I was at your house a few weeks back. Looks like it is going to be an awesome piece to add to your already impressive portfolio.

Good call on the carpet tape. Never thought of that before.


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## lysdexic

Is patination really a word?


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## renners

You are really motoring through that Red, the copper is a nice touch. It's the last thing I expected really, but I am all for mixing materials, and just looking at it now, in pieces, I'm thinking 'wow, that's going to be a nice piece'.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

It must be. Patinate is listed here:

pat•i•na (ˈpæt n ə, pəˈti nə) also pa•tine (pəˈtin)

n., pl. -ti•nas also -tines.
1. a film or incrustation, usu. green, produced by oxidation on the surface of old bronze and often esteemed as being of ornamental value.
2. a similar film or coloring appearing gradually on some other surface, esp. as a result of age or long use.
3. a surface calcification of implements, usu. indicating great age.
[1740-50; < Italian: coating < Latin: pan. See paten]
pat′i•nate` (-ˌeɪt) v.t. -nat•ed, -nat•ing.

One more step and you are there ;-))


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## camps764

incrustation….

I am going to find every possible opportunity to use that word today.

"There was some serious incrustation going on with the Huskers today…"


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## BigRedKnothead

^lol camps…

Is Lysdexic trying to break my linguistic stones or what? Course it's a word. Just google it there buddy. I also like patinator. Which means, "he who pees on copper roofs/objects in order to achieve proper incrustation.";-)

Renners- Thanks man. I still have a lot of areas to improve, but I'm gettin better. This as about the 8th sideboard I've made, so I'm getting efficient at the process. 
This copper was the clients idea. I put copper door panels in another piece for them prior. I thought it wouldn't be a big deal at the time, but achieving a patina that we both liked was a challenge. It didn't want to pee on it like the old timers did. And I didn't want to buy a bunch of nasty chemicals. I just tried a bunch of samples with the agents I had. If I didn't like it, I sanded them off and tried again til I got the hang of it. 
The process is a bit of a crapshoot, and it either looks cool when your done….or not so much. This time I nailed it, so I won't be surprised if I end up doing more.

I got some inspiration other LJs projects. Here's one I like:


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## renners

Take a look at Jason Wheeler's projects on Lumberjocks, he does amazing things with metal, I really like his designs.


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## BigRedKnothead

Good call renners. I like this piece. He says he paints them to get the effect. I imagine that would be more consistent than the patina crapshoot.



If someone doesn't want to mess with the patination process, you can buy copper already done here.

http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Patina-Copper-Veneer-24-x-18.html


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## RPhillips

I was going to post a new topic in the tools forums, but figured I'd just ask here since building furniture is my ultimate goal and I would really appreciate the feedback. I guess I would consider myself a hybrid woodworker if you will, I like the hand tool approach, but I also like to use power tools.

I am still fairly new to all this and trying to acquire all the basic necessities to get started, with that being said, where should my attention be? My thoughts are to focus on getting a Jointer or Planer (which ever I can get first) and also I need a descent router.

This is what I have so far:
Stanley #4
Bedrock 605
Stanley bench plane
Stanley SW chisels (future Christmas present from wife)
Disston rip saw 24" 
Disston tenon saw 16" 
B&D plunge router (it's crap, plan to replace with a Bosch)
Drill Press
Table Saw
Band Saw
Router Table

What I plan to purchase soon:
Router - Bosch 1617EVSPK or DeWalt DW618
Planer - I really have no clue - maybe a DeWalt DW735 or possibly a Grizzly G0453P or G0453 (if I can swing it)
Jointer - again not much of a clue - G0604X 6" Parallelogram Jointer?


----------



## Mahdeew

You will have more tools than I do. What will be your first project?


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## TechRedneck

If you are hybrid woodworker like myself, a planer is going to save you a lot of sweat. You can get the jointer at a later date if you have a good sharp scrub plane to get a board somewhat flat prior to running it through the planer. All you need is one flat reference surface. A planer only can make one surface the same thickness as the other "reference" surface.

The router table can double as a jointer by using a straight bit and the fence on the router table. Many tables have fences that can be off-set just like a vertical version of the jointer bed. Once you have a flat parallel board with one straight edge, rip it to width on the table saw. A good blade in the saw like a Freud Fusion or WWII can give you a glass smooth finish ready for glue up.

If you don't have a good workbench, that would be my next project. I popped over to your profile and saw that you are working on one. (nice tool cart by the way) The planer can help with this, a good quick release end vise is worth every dollar, I use mine nearly every time I am in the shop. Your bench is perhaps the most important tool in the shop, more so if you use hand tools.

You are off to a good start and have most everything you may need (not want) to get going. I would spend the time to learn how to properly sharpen the hand planes and chisels. And I mean razor sharp!

Like you, I started out with a basic setup of tools, however I quickly found that making furniture requires flat, square stock, precision and practice. Learn how to use each tool you have because each one can do many things but they have to be in good condition, tuned to perfection and you need to know the limits of each one. Then move on to the next. I have spent countless hours in the shop doing this and made very little, however that time spent is now paying off in the quality of my work and my satisfaction overall.

It took me several years to get some decent tools, learn how to use them, learn where to place them in the shop to maximize work flow, get some good lights, decent dust collection, some heat in winter, lumber racks and a couple work benches for hand tools, assembly, and light sanding. Now I can grab a couple boards for a project and go from rough to finish stock in short order with dead flat surfaces, square edges to within thousands of an inch and the projects go together and fit perfectly (most of the time ; )

The payoff for working on the basics is that I can push my creative side and make some of the nice quality stuff I see on this site. I still have a long way to go and love my time in the shop.

My 2 cents. Good luck!


----------



## RPhillips

Thanks Mike, good advice there. Yep, I am currently in the process of building a Roubo bench and hopefully will have it completed by Christmas. I just have to finalize my plan and stick with it.

I'm probably going to use my tax return and pick up descent Planer and Router. My router table (Big Box Bosch special) has the inserts to allow me to used my router as a jointer, so thanks for the tip on that.


----------



## CFrye

"I just have to finalize my plan and stick with it." Rob

Is that possible? My plans usually aren't finished until the project is! Know what I mean?


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## BigRedKnothead

Rob, looks like you've already got a good idea what you need, but just don't know it;-)

Tech had some good advice, I'll add my two cents. I know the darn stuff is expensive, but it's better to save up and buy a good one the first time, than to buy shoddy stuff that you'll have to replace in a couple years. I have done this with the exception of this piece of crap. I hate this machine and can't wait to replace it. 
Looking back, I probably should have watched for used machines (jointer planer) because a guy can save a lot of cash there. A quality used 8' jointer would be ideal. You'll have it for the rest of your life. 
I have about 5 routers(snicker). Partly because I don't like changing bits, and partly because I've found several cheap at garage sales and the like. Even that B&D router you have could probably be set up with an edge trimming bit and it's ready any time you need it.

I think you've got the right order. I used a router and a straight edge to get a true edge on lumber until I had a good jointer. You can joint lumber by hand and use it in conjunction with a power planer. Those dewalt benchtop planers are decent machines. But I've seen grizzley 15" planers on CL around here for the same price, so I plan on going that route.


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## jmartel

You can also joint wood on the tablesaw if you make a sled. Rough cut your pieces closer to final size so you aren't trying to joint an 8' long board, and you can either use hold-downs or hot glue to hold it to a piece of ply. Run it against your fence with the board hanging off the blade side of the ply, and it will straighten it up.


----------



## RPhillips

Yeah, I didn't even consider to use the router set up for a jointer, I figure it wouldn't work like most other all-in-one's. So I'll probably focus on Planer and router and if a jointer jumps out at me I'll try to snag that one too if I can. Luckily the wife just went back to work, so my chances of getting them has slightly increased.

I am also like you in saving to buy, but this time around I have to settle for much less than I typically would. I wanted to get a descent cabinet TS, but had to settle on a Craftsman 22114 of CL. Looked and Looked for descent older or even vintage drill press, but no luck. Settled on a HF machine and I'm not thrilled with it, but it will work. I also had to go with a BS that I really didn't want. Nomally I would just save until I have the funds to get what i want, but in all honesty I have bought every thing in my shop for less than a descent TS set, so I feel at this point that I have made the right decision. Besides, I would really like to hold out and get some vintage machines to restore and use, I love the old tools.

So again thanks for the info, and now that I have highjacked this thread we can return to our regularly scheduled broadcast.


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## RPhillips

Jmartel, another great tip. thanks.


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## jmartel

Plus, with the tablesaw sleds, you can set it up to do tapers as well.


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## BigRedKnothead

Here's how I usually mark hardware. I might make a jig if I've got a lot of the same door/drawers, but I usually just mark on masking tape, triple-check…and drill. 









Got this one done faster than I thought. I've been working evenings at the railroad lately. Makes for a lot of shop time in the morning while the kids are at school…but I'm really missing my kiddos.

Anyway, all done and ready for delivery. I'll post the project soon. 









A blanket chest for my in-laws is next. But I think I'll make a hand saw till first.


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## Hammerthumb

Boy Red - you sure work fast. Project is looking real good. Can't wait to see the top!


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## chrisstef

That's why we call him the Big Red Machine. Dude churns it out.


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## Hammerthumb

Sure does! Wish I was that productive in the shop. Have to make myself a little more productive as Christmas is looming on the horizon.


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## john2005

Oh, why did you have to go and remind me of that Paul? I was hoping to just forget about all that and focus on my bench build. So much for that. 
Yeah Red, you crank it out. Very impressive.


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## camps764

Red - seeing your chair at the top everyday got me wondering - what's your finishing protocol look like to get the A/C style?

I've read a few different approaches - outside of fuming.

Curious to know what you did there.

On my current build I'm using a base stain of Early American, will follow that with dark walnut danish oil, after that a coat of Amber Shellac. Protect the whole thing with a couple light coats of Poly.

That's the protocol I've used before, but substituted the Poly with Dark Paste Wax.

Figure this desk will need a little more protection than the wax can offer.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Re: my productivity. Sometimes people ask me where I find the time to do this stuff. I do average 40 hours a week at the railroad. I have a wife and 3 kids that are my first priority. But once my domestic responsibilities are taken care of, woodworking is pretty much all I do. I don't watch tv or play video games unless its with my kids. I don't enjoy idle time. I like to keep my hands busy. 
I thinks its that, and I my personality thrives on efficiency. I'm always looking for more efficient ways to tasks. So much that I have to remind myself to slow down and enjoy the ride

Re: my A&C finish. The answer will delight or disappoint…. It's just Dark Walnut Danish oil and Satin poly. 
Awhile back when I was making one of my first A&C pieces, I spent a couple days obsessing about the finish. I tried all the methods I could find in my books and mags on sample boards. They all had various steps like you described Steve. After all the mess I made, my wife and I both liked the easiest one….dark walnut danish oil.

Now I will be the first to admit this finish isn't a tried true fumed oak look. The rays and flecks pop out too much. Fuming actually murks up the rays a bit. I love the medullary rays and I want them to stand out, so I strayed from the traditional look. Nearly every time someone orders an A&C piece from me, they insist on "whatever finish you used on that stuff in your house." There are a few tricks I've learn to really make them "pop." Wet sanding the danish on is one. Firmly wiping your first coat of poly is another.

Eventually I would like to make a piece or two with an authentic fumed look using aniline dyes etc.. We'll see. I think this LJ does a wonderful job of that. Props Douglas.


----------



## b2rtch

This post is very interesting and I love it but it is becoming to long to navigate.
We need a different format.
Any idea Ms Debbie?


----------



## Hammerthumb

I agree Red. The few pieces that I have tried to fume did seem a little muddy looking. I do like the finish that you have come up with, but have not made an A&C piece for a few years. I did check out Douglas's Mission Style Pedestal table. What a fine piece of furniture!


----------



## b2rtch

Question: Sunday, I sprayed some shelves that I made with a can of polyurethane . They still are tacky. 
Other shelves that I sprayed with a different can dried right away as normal.
Can I clean the tacky one with some mineral spirit or lacquer thinner and then spray them again?
What will happen the oil stain under?
Thank you.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Bert- I agree this format can be tough navigate when the thread starts getting long. But's it's the only format on LJs that provides continued interaction on a subject. Working with what we've got I guess.

As far as the poly. The only time that has happened to me is when I didn't let danish oil cure long enough before adding poly. Is there an oil beneath that this might have happened with? In my case, I wiped the tacky surface with mineral spirits and waited a couple more days for the poly to harden, scuffed it up and added more coats.

Paul- ya, Douglas has got a nice little blog. He is one of the many "underrated" quality woodworkers in the abyss of lumberjocks.


----------



## pintodeluxe

I think it depends on your computer. My newest computer starts me near the end of the thread, so it is easy to navigate. My older computer starts me at the beginning every time. It may be if you are running Windows 7 or newer it's okay?


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## b2rtch

What I tried to say is that you remember that you read something last week, when you try to find it again and you never can or it takes you 20 minutes.
About my polyurethane issue, I in fact believe that the polyurethane is passed its shelf life (only about one year).
I shall wipe everything down with mineral spirit and start again.


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## BigRedKnothead

Willie- did you mean to chime in when I was talking about underrated woodworkers? (snicker) As far as I'm concerned, you are one of the hidden gems on LJs. I read most all of your blogs. There, I swelled your head enough for today…lol

Bert- bummer bout the finishing issue. Those can be maddening. If I did this for a living, it wouldn't hurt my feelers to outsource my finishing.


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## lysdexic

Rojo, do you ever use cabinet grade plywood?


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## BigRedKnothead

Scotty- sure do. A1 cabinet grade is the only stuff I will use on furniture. I used it for the back and dividers of the sideboard I just made. Mainly to keep the cost/labor down. It's interesting to me how plywood gets snubbed. It's not a far cry from veneering wood. Every time I go look at antiques, I always surprised by how much veneers they used back in the day.

Eventually I would like to make some stuff with all solid wood construction. Ya know, FWW quality. But I'll probably have to make it for myself. It gets pricey for folks.


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## BigRedKnothead

I always get a little sumpin' sumpin' for my shop with the proceeds from a commission. Ordered a lift for my router table this time. 
I've never had a router where the height adjustment worked worth a darn while mounted under a table(due to the weight of it's motor). So I thought I'd give a this lift a shot. After tinkering with a bit this morning, it's one of those "why didn't I get one of these a long time agos". Height adjustments and bit changes can be made above the table. Straight buddah. I dig it. 
Here's to NOT having to fight my router table for 5min just to get a slot cutter bit centered on door frames


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## CFrye

Congrats Red! Adjusting the height is a big reason I don't use the router. Well, that, and it scares me. I've had a few pieces snatched out of my hands and flung across the shop. Fortunately, no damage to anyone or thing. A shop made lift is on the To Do List.


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## jmartel

Yeah, a shopnotes router lift is on my list of things to add when I finally get around to making a router table.


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## Hammerthumb

Nice Red! I was just using my router table last night and was cursing the fact that I don't have a lift. I don't use the table very often, but can see the advantage of having a lift. took me over five mins to get it set. Mine must be a little more finicky. It's so bad that I cut most of my door frames on the table saw, no matter how many passes it takes. It's a shame that a tool that useful just sits because I have not taken the time to get one. But, there is always more than one way to skin a cat, or mill some wood!


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## BigRedKnothead

Ya Paul, 5min was on a good day
I think the deterrent for router lifts is the price tag. They can cost more than a nice router! I got this Rockler table and fence a while back on clearance super cheap. Then I built the cart. Rockler's router lift is one of the more reasonably priced($179)...so I went with it. It works well. I suppose I can build a door for my cart now. No need to get under the table now.

Part of me wishes I could do away with a router table, but I just don't have the patience. Looking ahead to some Greene and Greene stuff I want to build, there's no way I'm doing cloud lifts and stuff by hand. I've used pattern routing when making curved chair parts. It's pretty slick.

Routers can be every bit as dangerous as a tablesaw. As long as I use a starting pin and/or push pads, I don't have trouble controlling the piece.


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## Hammerthumb

Agree with the danger part. I try to do routing prior to cutting the piece to final dimension if at all possible. Red, what kind of router does the Rockler lift take? I have a Hitachi router in my table, but have a couple of other PC routers. Is the lift designed for a certain type of router?


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## BigRedKnothead

Paul- here's the lift I got.

Says, "accepts the following routers: Porter-Cable 690/890 Series, Bosch 1617-16-18, DeWalt* 610, 616, 618."

I had a couple routers on that list, so I installed the PC 890 with adjustable speed. For freehand routing, I prefer the Bosch anyway.

Here's a rockler free shipping promo code if I'm tempting you
code: AFO54


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## Hammerthumb

Ya Red - you're definitely an enabler! I'll check it out. If I get it, I won't be able to install it until I get this chest finished. Got some travel to do before Christmas and really need the time in the shop for this project. Don't want to tell mama that her gift is waiting for the finish to dry. By the way, I did mention that I was in the shop last night as do not usually spend much time there during the week. Trying to get ahead of the curve. Made some progress last night on the dust frames. I now have lots of parts with no assembly done except for the side doors, back panel, and dust frames. I'll try to get a couple of pics posted if anyone is interested.


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## RPhillips

Is this Bosch Lift any good? It's what I was planning to buy when ever I get my new router.


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## BigRedKnothead

Paul- ya show us some progress.

Rob- sorry to report, that's essentially what came with my bosch 1617…and it's doesn't work very well. It just doesn't life the router evenly…and binds. A good lift has threads and/or rods that lift it uniformly. I know, more expensive crap to buy


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## TechRedneck

For those on a bit of a budget, I have a Triton 3hp router under a Jessem table I picked up on sale (was a demo unit).










The blue thingy is a Keen Router dust cup that collects almost all the chips, no need for any box under the table. Above the table bit changes go quickly. The Triton does have an above the table crank, however it is quicker just to reach under the table and spin a knob to raise it. The Triton actually forces you to turn off the router, a cover slides over the switch in order to lock the chuck. A minute or so to swap out a bit.










I just hang the wrench on the screw for the hose clamp.

One thing about hanging a huge monster router under this table is… like us… time takes its toll and the table top has begun to sag from the weight. If anybody uses a setup with this router I would recommend some extra support underneath.


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## vikingcape

Progress! Drawers are taking shape. First time cutting half blinds so be nice.


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## Hammerthumb

Real nice progress Kaleb. I think you did a fine job on your first set of half blinds. Can't tell from the pic, but do the dust frames have a dovetail detail at the face of the cabinet?


----------



## vikingcape

Yes they do. Thanks for the nice comments paul


----------



## camps764

Progress - Coat of stain and coat of Danish Oil.



















2-3 days for the oil to cure and will follow that with a coat of Amber Shellac.


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## BigRedKnothead

Tech- I like that little dust cup. Might have to look into that.

Rob- ya, might wanna look into that triton Tech is speaking of. It looks like a better design. 
I should rephrase from earlier, pretty much any router will mount under a table with a proper router plate. You can get by with it. I did for years. But a lift is a nice upgrade. Btw, if you need a router plate, I don't need my old benchdog brand plate. It's yours if you'd like.

Kaleb- if that's your first half-blinds…your well on your way. Nice work brother. Gotta ask, did you chop it all away by hand…or use one of the many techniques out there?

Steve- your pics just gave me a big smile.


----------



## camps764

Thanks dude. I can't believe how much I used that little plane I got from you after I brought it home. Great recommendation on the smaller size. Fits my tiny hands, and works great to smooth small parts.


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## BigRedKnothead

Cool. But your tried my no 4-1/2 too. Surely you'll need one of those to smooth panels and such. I know, I'm a filthy enabler when it comes to hand planes


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## vikingcape

Steve that grain in that piece really swells, I like it.

Red, I used my new hitachi mv12v2 3 1/4 hp router for most of the waste and then I chopped it finished with my chisels. I find every excuse in the world to use that router, it's my new baby. Not a table guy for routers even though the sucker is big it's really nice to use handheld. I guess because I'm a big dumb viking


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## waho6o9

You're far from dumb Kaleb.


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## natenaaron

This is getting crazy. this one thread has several threads in it. It is getting pretty much impossible for me to follow the ones I find interesting. Did the powers that be nix the furniture makers forum request?


----------



## dbray45

Nate - Many of these forums go in different tangents from time to time. If you have a question - ask away.


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## BigRedKnothead

natenaaron- I don't find it that tough to follow my favorite threads. I just add them to my watchlist, then I can see at the bottom of the Ljs screen if there have been new posts. 
As far as the length, I view them as ongoing conversations. No biggie if its been covered previously. Bring it up if you want. It's whatever we make it.

Kaleb- You've probably noticed I have weird ideas/philosophies when it comes to woodworking. As far as dovetails go, I draw the line at dovetailing jigs. I have no beef with those who use them, but in my mind, dovetails should be cut by hand.
That said, once they're cut, I'm not a opposed to cleaning out some of that waste with electrons via drill or router. I've thought about getting a palm router for this. But if a big dumb viking(snicker) can use a regular router….maybe I can too


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## RPhillips

I actually find this format easier to follow, I'll blame it on my mental capacity. If it were broken up into several different threads I would have too hard of a time following them all, so I for one am in favor of how it is.


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## renners

So this thread is like an untidy desk, but isn't that a sign of genius? I am going to the new posts every time I check in so I haven't missed anything, have nothing to add of note at the moment as I' m working on another chipboard wardrobe, if anyone wants to know how to get nice, clean edges breaking down sheets of melamine faced particle board without a panel saw, just holler and I'll run through it.


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## vikingcape

Yeah red. It's nice. I actually cut all the dovetails by hand. Getting the waste out; especially in this maple would be murder on my chisels so I like to use the router for that. For my through tails in the back I use a coping saw. I love cutting dovetails. It's like a sickness I have now. I can't wait to tally up all of them I've done in this project.

Waho thanks for the vote of kindness. Real nice of you.

Renners that may actually be nice to know. I never know what may come down the road so that may be useful for later. I always like to learn from someone who actually knows what they are doing…..other than messing it up myself over and over


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## Hammerthumb

Renners - I think this is Reds intent with this thread. If it is furniture related, ie. project progress, new milling technique, a picture of a piece that someone might consider beautiful or extrordinary, etc. - please post it. Red will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is the intent of the thread. I don't think this the thread has a real destination, just lots to read and see on the journey.

Red - as I consider myself a hybrid woodworker also, I use combinations of hand tools and electrical powered tools. Some methods of hand tooling is just faster, neater, and more enjoyable than pulling out and setting up power tools. I have a slider saw on a movable stand that I have not set up in years. Almost all of my cuts are made on the table saw, or with a skill saw. As far as dovetails, I have found that when doing drawers I cut the tails on the band saw, and then the sockets (half blind) are chopped out by hand. This is the most efficient way to do them. When I do full dovetails on a carcass I will still cut them by hand as the pieces are usually to large to do on the band saw. I do have 2 dovetail jigs that I got when I was young and didn't know any better, but I got disgusted trying to get them set up. I think I used each one once. They were a waste of time and I did not like the way the dovetails looked after it was done. Too perfect looking.










The tails on this were layed out and cut on the band saw. Chopped out the waste between, and then I layed out the sockets using the tails as the template and a sharp marking knife (thanks KS Slim) and then I made an angled cut of the sockets with my DT saw and chopped out the waste. Fast, easy, clean.


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## vikingcape

Sweet looking dovetails Paul. I like how you stepped them down in number. Great wood combination too. Is that a finished project or something you are working on now? Either way would love to see more of it


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## Hammerthumb

Kaleb - It's a tool chest I made mostly for the hand tools - Marking knives, turning tools, chisels, carving tools, etc. Plan for a bottom cabinet that I will start after Christmas presents are finished. Bottom will hold planes and larger saws. Here is a couple more shots. Made this out of some leftover Mahogany ply I found in my shop.



















This works for me as I don't have any wall space for hanging any racks for tools. Figure that I will have the cabinets sit near the end of my bench within easy reach.


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## Hammerthumb

Also, notice the hammered pulls that Dave made for me for it. Those things are real cool!


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## TechRedneck

Paul

That's a fitting shrine for those hand tools, I like!


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## BigRedKnothead

Paul- I was hoping you'd show off your tool chest. It's really somethin'. And thanks for sharing your dovetail routine. As we've encountered with our joinery discussions thus far…..there's more than one way to get there. It's fun to try different ways and see which you like.

Renners- Chipboard closets. Such is the life of one who does this for a living. It's ok if you quietly despise those of us who have the luxury of building only the stuff we want to build….lol. Hopefully you've got a good dust mask there buddy.

Ya guys, as far as where this forum is headed, you articulated it better than I could have. I haven't been on LJs for a year even. But I learned early on, it's like a lot of things in life-you get out of it what you put into it. Example, I made a sharpening blog awhile back. It took me a while to organize my thoughts and type it up…which I grumbled about. Then, I learned so much from the feedback and interaction that it was well worth my time. More than worth it.

This isn't the best way to learn. An apprenticeship or hands-on classes would be better. But like so many, my life/job doesn't accommodate those, so this is what I've got. It goes without saying that I enjoy the camaraderie of fellow woodworkers. 
Shoot, maybe it's like Bob Dylan said. "I'll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours."


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## vikingcape

Paul….Wow! That is a nice looking tool box. I am going to be building one shortly. I just bought some bubinga that I am going to use for the sides. Great job.

It's a great thread I'm picking up so much


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## BigRedKnothead

Well, it's delivered and out of my life forever. Here's the sideboard you guys pretty much watched me build.


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## RPhillips

Nice Red, now if the wife see this, she'll want one.


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## Hammerthumb

Real nice Red. Can you fill us in on the drawer joinery? The top came out awesome! "Inner Picaso" ;-)


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## b2rtch

Here is my router lift with my 1611 (3 1/4 HP and 20 years old) Bosh router. 
This works well for me.


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## Hammerthumb

Bert - you crack me up! How well does that work? Very inventive I must say!


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## renners

Cable tie for constant on, nice solution.


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## CFrye

That's about as K.I.S.S. as you can get Bert! Love it.


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## Brit

Thought the readers of this thread would appreciate this lovely video of Frank Strazza making a side table with hand tools.


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## RPhillips

Thanks for sharing Brit


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## vikingcape

That was really amazing Brit. He works considerably faster than I do and I use power tools. Thanks for sharing that


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## Wally331

awesome video Brit, after making an almost identical table, its interesting to see how techniques differed. I'd like to get into doing some simple inlays like that at some point.


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## b2rtch

It works very well for me and it cost me only about $12.00.
I can have the collet nut entirely above the table.

Candy:
" K.I.S.S." ? what's that?

The video is absolutely beautiful and kind of make me jealous that some people are so talented.


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## john2005

Love the video. Someday I'll be that good…

Keep It Simple Stupid, although I don't think she was calling you stupid, thats just how the phrase goes. It is pretty ingenious.


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## TechRedneck

Great video Brit.

I wished I could have seen how he cut out that drawer from the apron on the front. Perfect fit…. That guy is good.

I am working on a couple of bedside tables today, had to use the band saw for some of the curved legs but I have to get me one of those draw knives. I have one of those old style coffin smoothers and love it.


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## ColonelTravis

I've met the guy in that table video briefly, sure knows his hand tools. Anyone in Texas ever taken the classes at his place near Waco? They've interested me.

http://www.homesteadheritage.com/


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## Brit

Tech - To cut the drawer out of the apron like that, you do this:

1. First cut the apron from which the drawer will be cut slightly oversize in both directions.
2. Make the two rip cuts that define the top and bottom of the drawer.
3. Joint the four edges either side of the two rip cuts.
4. Take the center piece of wood formed by the two rip cuts and make the two crosscuts that form the two sides of the drawer.
5. Plane the four edges formed by the crosscut square.
6. Glue the four parts that form the apron back together with the drawer front inserted as a spacer.
7. Plane the faces of the apron flush and size the apron to the same overall dimensions as the other aprons, then cut the joinery.

Hope that helps.


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## CFrye

Bert, yes what John said. I tend to way over complicate things so I like simple solutions. I just wish I could think 'em up first. 
That video was great Brit. I didn't know draw knives were used for fine work like that. I just thought they were for taking off bark!


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## TechRedneck

Thanks Brit: That makes sense and is really quite simple when you think about it.

Now I have to try it out.


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## rhett

Live edge meets contemporary traditional. Spalted beech slab, spilled over a figured cherry base. WIP










Thinking of doing some videos, showing my 50/50 hand and power tool approach to working with live edge slabs.


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## CFrye

That's cool Rhett! Videos, yes please!


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## renners

As promised, How to achieve breakout free and straight edging on melamine faced particle board without a panel saw.

Let the tedium begin:










First off I'm splitting my sheets with my tracksaw leaving a little over 1/8 wider than the finished width.










As you can see, despite the claims of the marketing people at Dewalt, there is chipping on the edge to the right of the splinterguard.
That's ok, what is really more of a problem for me is the fact that splitting the sheet has released tension in the material and despite cutting it in a straight line, when put back together, there is now a gap in the centre of the sheet, which obviously means that the edges aren't straight.










Now that might not look like much of a gap, it's hardly a gaping chasm I'll admit, but when it comes time to install this job I know that when two carcases are joined together, that little bit of a difference will look terrible. It might only be 3/4 of a millimetre, but the shadows created when two pieces are not quite level exaggerate the difference.

So onto straightening this sheet.

The idea first occurred to me after looking at one of the zero clearance circular saw guides on Lumberjocks. Before I bought the tracksaw, I used one of those to break down my sheets and simply thought, if I can do that with a circular saw, I can do it with a router.










So just as you line up the edge of the tracksaw with a pencil mark, I'm lining up the edges of the router guide with a pencil mark, taking enough off to get rid of all the chips.




























I use a straight 1/2" bit running it at about half speed to put the straight edge on the sheet. Go at it full tilt and you'll burn the bit out after about 20 feet. Doing it like this I can do a whole job and toss the bit, I buy bits in fives from FittersWorld on ebay for about two quid each.

So after I've routed a nice clean straight edge on my sheets, they just get the slightest rub with a bit of sandpaper to get rid of any bobbly bits and then I put on the edging.










Now this a pita to do I'll admit, but I am prepared to do this just to know that my sheet materials will have a straight edge. Even if I had a big Altendorf slider, that tension in the sheet that is released by splitting it would be there, so it would require trimming up again to get perfectly straight.

I don't have any feelings about using this melamine faced particle board, someone asks me do a closet and it's the right material for the job. Cheap, fast and no finishing, do it, get paid, on to the next job.

As for cross cutting all these pieces, they're going to get loaded up into the van and taken to my FiL's workshop and I'll do the cutting on his sliding panel saw - set the stops and the scoring blade and it'll all be cut out in an hour.

Just one more little tip when using this material, some break out on the edges is inevitable, no matter how you do it. Just wipe a bit of paint onto any chips and you'd need a magnifying glass to spot where they were.


----------



## john2005

Hey Renners, in the for what its worth department, I used white melamine to sheet the inside of my garage. Why? Cause I bought a pallet of it cheaper than sheetrock, you can hang stuff anywhere and it doesn't take much light to be bright inside. I made every cut with a shop made zero clearance guide and my circ saw. Out of the +/-50 sheets I cut and fit, the ones that chipped out to any degree could be counted on one hand. Mind you every sheet had to be cut on at least 2 sides. I'd say that worked pretty good and was fast too. Whatever all thats worth.


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## vikingcape

Thanks renners. Very smartly done. Well thought out and great instruction


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## renners

No problem Kaleb, it is marginally more time consuming but worth it for getting BOTH sides perfectly chip free, which is a must for shelves.

John, I don't doubt you had an easier time cutting your white melamine, all I can tell you is the stuff we get over here is desperate for breaking on the edges. Over the years, the melamine coating seems to have got thinner and thinner - It used to be the case that you asked for 3/4 and it was a true 3/4 - 19.1mm, the sheets I bought for this job are sold as 3/4 but have shrunk to 18.2 mm thickness and the coating seems thinner. In US money it's $47 a sheet, so about 3 times the cost of a plasterboard.


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## BigRedKnothead

Wow *Brit,* thanks for sharing that video. That dude's got mad skills. I can can do about 3 of those tasks as well as he does. The other 70 are gonna need some work

Paul- the drawers on that sideboard had just a simple rabbet. I was going to peg it with dowels but decided against it. My fav and most used drawer joint is a locking rabbet:









I haven't used dovetails on anything significant yet. Still practicing…but they're coming.

Busy weekend. I'll have to catch up on the other posts later.


----------



## john2005

Def not gonna argue that its getting thinner. They make it here in town and so I went in with a buddy who got it at employee cost. Hey showed me production and even mentioned that they were being told to skimp where ever they could. And that was 5-6 years ago. Can't imagine what they are doin now.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

rhett- Good stuff. You guys are starting to give me ideas about all the live edge lumber I pass on around here.

renner- thanks for the tutorial. I used to joint edges of hardwoods that way before I had a jointer (only with a bearing guided bit). Gotta be careful with the sharp edges a router creates.


----------



## widdle

that was a good video..looked like a little planer snipe at 4 minutes…have you guys seen this one..


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## widdle

[No message]


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## BigRedKnothead

That stinks widdle. Your vid isn't showing up. I know LJs still won't allow embed vids. Not sure if that's the issue.


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## widdle

I guess i forgot how to post a vid..jarvi bench on youtube..pretty cool..


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## BigRedKnothead

Here it is. Interesting.


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## CFrye

Love to watch a piece from log to finished! Thanks for sharing that video widdle and Red.


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## Airframer

Been following this thread. A lot of great information and awesome pieces getting pass around here.

Now I have a question for you furniture builders out there…

Red has challenged me to use wooden full extension slides for the drawers in my tool cabinet. The drawers are going to be on the smallish side and most the plans I have found would add too much bulk to the sides making the storage space even smaller ( and it is meant to store stuff lol)

I would like to mount something on the bottom of the drawer in the space provided by the dado for the bottom.. Any ideas?


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## widdle

thanks for posting that red..


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## CL810

Thanks widdle & Red, interesting.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Eric - that's a tough one for sure. Think Red is setting you up on that one. I think if you are going for full extension, it's going to take up space. The tool chest that I made does not have any type of drawer guides as I made the drawers fit perfectly in the cabinet sections. I can get away with this here in Las Vegas as we do not have real big humidity swings. When I make the bottom cabinet, I planned to use regular drawer guides (bottom mount) as the drawers will be a lot larger and hold more weight. Let me know what you come up with though as I might need to borrow your idea.

Red - I use that locking rabbet joint a lot also, but I usually pin it with a dowel. Don't know if it helps hold it together, but it makes nice decoration! Now some pictures of 1/8" dowels that I used to pin some of this jewelry chest together. This is the inside of the chest with the cove pieces on each side of it. The dados are for the dust frames between the drawers.










Here is the dust frames. 3/8" and bridal jointed.










And here is is partially assembled.










The dust frames will be glued Ipe to Ipe and will float in the maple dados. I am also going to put a 1/8" brass pin through the cove piece into the dust frames on each side.

The sides are actually doors. They will have some posts for hanging chains. I used barrel hinges to keep them concealed.


----------



## theoldfart

Paul, could you have used knife hinges ?


----------



## Hammerthumb

No. The thickness of the cove wall is too thin. Barely got barrel hinges in there, but it fit and works great.


----------



## john2005

Starting to look pretty awesome Paul. That is some fine work you got goin on there.

Thanks for sharing the vid Widdle/Red. That was pretty cool. That fella has a lot goin on there.


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## lysdexic

Those are some beefy doors Paul.


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## BigRedKnothead

Paul- that's looking outstanding.

Eric- I was mostly just trying to challenge you….the same way I like to push myself each project. I didn't fully picture how your toolbox would layout, and I agree, there may not be enough room. I've never made full extension wood slides. I've just seen several versions like this:









And they all take up some space. Think about it I guess.

Btw, thanks for taking some time of the tool chest build so I don't get left in the dust. Currently I'm making a saw till for my french cleat board. I have a another commission before I get to the rest of my joinery bench/tool box.


----------



## Airframer

No problem lol.. figured I'd try and even things up a bit ;-)

I'm not giving up on these just yet. I have an idea in mind that just might work. I'll try to get something drawn up soon. Kinda hard to describe without a picture.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, from the bottom, I imagine you'd have to work with a version of this:


----------



## Airframer

This is a crude drawing of what I have in mind.

Basically it is a frame that fits under the drawer bottom with catches on both the drawer cubby and the drawer bottom . The drawer is kept from tipping when fully extended by a dowel that rides in a groove along the side of the frame.

Again hard to explain and as of yet untested but this seems to be a simple install and fairly simple construction and allows the drawer to be full size..










The black is the frame in question..


----------



## Airframer

And I just realized the channel illustrated for the dowel is going the wrong direction.. but hopefully you sorta get the idea..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Give 'er heck buddy. You rarely disappoint.


----------



## BHolcombe

Tough to make out in this pic, but the back of the bookcase is quad matched walnut burl. The desk has a leather top.

I didnt make the chair, that's by Moller.


----------



## BHolcombe

Sigh, this is coming up with only half the picture for me.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good looking stuff BHolcombe.

For LJs usually you have to resize pics to about 600 pixels wide. Kinda stinks…but it's what we have to work with.


----------



## AnthonyReed

If you right-click on the picture and select "view image" you can see the full version.

Edit: Sorry that is only with Foxfire browser, not available with IE.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Adding to Tony, in Chrome right-click and open the image in a new tab or window, comes out fully. In IE, save the picture to your desktop then open it there.


----------



## vikingcape

Bholcombe I would love to see that leather top and how you incorporated it with the table. That sounds interesting. Looks like a very professional work


----------



## renners

Nice work Mr Holcombe. I like that shadow gap between sections.


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks guys.

Here's a pic (resized) of the desktop, I put the leather over baltic birch ply with contact cement, wrapped around the edges, sealed the corners and tacked with small upholstery tacks on the underside.

Drawers are also lined with leather, but in this case I build a small inner frame wrapped in leather to hide the edges.










I built the humidor as well.


----------



## BHolcombe

edited the above picture to a better size.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Leather lined drawers - fancy! Is that Luxo Jr. peeking around the corner?
I like the look of that box a lot.


----------



## BHolcombe

Renners, I appreciate your comment on the air gap, that is one of the details I am very proud of. Thank you.

Sorry to bombard this thread with photos. Here is a pic of one of the back sections (3 total) they actually all match. I was lucky enough to find a stack of veneer capable of doing the entire project.


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks Travis, that's a tolomeo lamp in black, mounted to the wall.


----------



## lysdexic

BHolcombe - what is sticking out on each side of the case at the top? French cleat?


----------



## vikingcape

Mr. Holcombe bomb away with the photos. That's the spirit of this forum. I may be pestering you with questions every time you do though


----------



## Hammerthumb

I was curious about that on the outside of the wall unit also. Agree with renners on the shadow gap. Very nice. Question - are the legs of the table splayed a couple of degrees or is it the camera that makes it look that way. Nice table. I like. Also, can we get some lighted pics of the installed burl? It's hard to see it from the pics posted.
Very nice work BHolcombe!


----------



## CL810

Nice work Holcombe. Have a project in mind that involves leather and was pondering if that was how it was done.

And yes, bombard away with the pics.


----------



## BHolcombe

Awesome, will do.

The part sticking out on each end is the cleat, I wanted to capture the stud all the way to the left for extra support and I made it stick out the same on the right to appease my OCD. I was a bit nervous about putting this much weight on the wall, so I made the cleat wide enough for two cabinet screws on each stud. I can literally do pull ups on this cabinet fully loaded, so it worked, lol.

Thanks Paul! Table legs are square, cell phone camera always make everything look wonky. I'll take a pic with flash to show how the burl looks. I'll post up one of the drawers as well.

Thanks CL, if you have any specific questions fire away.


----------



## BHolcombe

Here's the best picture I've managed to get out of my phone for the burl on the back. I sized the burks so that they are each framed in the individual cubes. I realise the back ends up being covered with books, but it also adds a great color to the case.


----------



## BHolcombe

Drawer liner.


----------



## CL810

Outstanding!


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks CL!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yessir! Beautiful stuff BHolcombe. Such a clean modern look. That stuff deserves a project post.


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks Red! I may post it up in projects. I have a few others I may add to that as well.


----------



## camps764

Wow BHolcombe - that is a thing of beauty. I really like that the entire room works together to highlight each piece…if that makes sense. I was impress when I first looked at it, and even more impressed once I realized that thing was hanging on the wall.

The leather is an awesome touch as well.


----------



## dbray45

If that was a commissioned piece - they got their money's worth - whatever the price


----------



## Hammerthumb

Red - getting ready to go out to the marathon and root for your wife. Do you think she will know who I am?










My phone does not take very good pics (too much sawdust) but here is a couple of how I am bowing the face of this chest.



















So the other complication that this presents is that I now have to bow the drawers. Hope I can finish by Christmas.


----------



## BHolcombe

Great stuff.

Red, that wall hanging system is awesome. I appreciate your choice in using furniture grade hardwoods for that.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Thanks man. I'm pretty happy with it so far.

Paul- LOL. Well done. I'll have to show my wifey. Curved drawer fronts ehh? Haven't done that yet. Did you say you were gonna steam them?

Lucas- Ya, I already posted my french cleat board as a project. Didn't want to beat a dead horse. The saw till didn't take me but an hour or two to make.

Ya guys, I have no regrets about using hardwoods all around my shop. Even my lumber rack is made of oak. It'll last all of my days and then some. 
I should note, the shop stuff reflects my lumber purchasing strategy. I rarely buy select grade hardwoods (interestingly guys like Maloof didn't either). I can get select for $4 bdft or common grade for $2 bdft. I come out ahead by getting twice as much common grade. It's not hard to work around the knots. 
This strategy gives me more stock to select from. And I can use the less spectacular stuff for shop applications. Notice my tills are made out of riftsawn white oak without rays or flecks. There's always some of that when I buy QSWO in bulk.


----------



## BHolcombe

That's nice stuff, great pricing as well. I pay probably $7/BF or more for QSWO.



















The top step is finished off now and does not reveal the area below the door molding, but I have not taken an updated picture.


----------



## BHolcombe

Their is another flight as well, but the only pic i have doesnt have a finished section, due in part to laziness in my photography. It looks basically the same.










Walnut burl and macassar ebony.



















Macassar ebony, the base is maple lacquered black with walnut standoffs.










Macassar ebony and bubinga. I felt a bit guilty using this much solid Macassar ebony on a table, so I've never done so again.


----------



## CL810

Great work B! The burl and ebony is a real nice matchup.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

BHolcombe- more excellent stuff. That modern style wouldn't work in mi casa. But your making me wish I had a client who would order stuff like that.


----------



## theoldfart

Red I have a L&JG Stickley rocker from my grandparents that I love. I'd like to make an ottoman like the one you have with your Morris Chair. What are the dimensions and did you draw up any plans?


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks fellas, the burl and ebony pair and the bubinga table I did for a client, the other stuff for my house.


----------



## ColonelTravis

I have wanted a stand up desk for about 20 years. Never thought about building one because I was never into building anything long ago. One idea I've seen is to have a slide-out side board like this:



















Generally speaking, what's the best way to do that? Or if anyone has specifics, even better.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Kev- ohhhh L&J.G Stickley. Keeping the dream alive
I'm going to make a morris loveseat this next year too. The plans for the morris chair in the OP are in this book:








I think it could be made into a loveseat by making the rails thicker, and obviously longer.

Looks like you can pick that book up used for under $20 on amazon. It's worth it. But if you don't want the book, lemme know and I'll get you some measurements or pics of the plans.

Travis- I've got a couple ideas. Lemme see if I can find a graphic or two to explain.


----------



## LukieB

Red,
Just looking for any opportunity to give you a hard time…..

Til really does look awesome.

Bholcomb, that is some outstanding work that macassar ebony looks amazing!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice work BHolcomb. Where do you find your ebony? That's some nice looking stuff.

Red - have not decided how to bow the drawers. Either laminate and bandsaw, or cold laminate some bandsawn veneers. Don't want to try steam bending these as I need them real consistent and steam bending can be a crapshoot. The bow is about 5/8" over 20". I'll do a few pics when I get to that. The bottom of the cabinet is almost complete. Putting a box on top. Got to start that this week as I'm going to Frisco for a couple of days and will be away for the weekend.


----------



## renners

HT, I laminated curved drawer fronts here and they worked out really well, I'd do it again.
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/72281
I can go down to about 2mm on my planer


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Renners. I've done a few like that. Last one I did, I made a curved skirt and cut a drawer out of it. Purple Heart corner table I made for a friend. I would post the link to it in my projects, but I'm in the shop on my phone. I'll post later.


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks fellas. I bought the Macassar ebony through veneersupplies.com. He gets in some amazing raw veneers.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Here is the link to the corner table.



Here is the bow I put on the front of this chest.



















Here it is with a straight edge at the front. It bows out about 5/8" over 20".


----------



## CL810

Awesomeness Paul! Both pieces.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Clayton.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jeepers Paul. That corner table is on a whole 'nother level. 
I'm glad your doing the curved drawer fronts. It looks cool with just the dividers. I can relate to that point in a build where you say to yourself, "Well, doing it this way will take a lot longer, but it sure will look cool."

Travis- re: the slideout board. Here's what I picture. Basicially you would need wood runners above and below the space. Like this drawer, but smaller:









Then, to lubricate the slide. Not gonna want paraffin wax all over your slideout. I've used this slippery tape in the past. Sounds cheezy. That stuff is tough, and works great. I'd put that on the runners.

Last, maybe a stopped groove on the underside, so you can make a stop. Don't want it pulling all the way out.


----------



## vikingcape

Hey red I've been wondering about that tape as I'm going to be close to done on my chest of drawers. Is it durable (I know you said it's tough) I was wondering about the long run? I was just going to use furniture wax, but maybe that stuff may work better


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya man, I've used that stuff on my son's dresser and few shop applications. No complaints. There's no runners in this design. Just drawer boxes. The drawers sides just hang down 1/16". I put the tape in the case and on the bottom of the drawer slides. It's an inch wide. So I lined up one edge and ran a razor blade on the other side.










I didn't get it from lee valley, but I'm sure it's the same stuff. I had my doubts after seeing it in a mag too. It's more like a film than tape. You couldn't tear it like tape. You need scissors. 
It works goof for stuff like that. But if I have runners, like on my last sideboard, I just rub paraffin on them.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Never used the tape before but would like to try it someday. I have one more thing to add about the slide out board. I have had a couple of desks that have had these get stuck. I did not make them, but here is a picture of the one in my office



















They are stuck! See the pulls above the drawers. This happens often with this design, so choose the right materials (plywood with veneer) and make sure there is plenty of room!

Thanks for the cudos on the table Red. Took longer to finish the project then it did to build it. Cutting veneer out of purpleheart was not fun as the oil in the wood gums up the bandsaw blade (I also dislike purpleheart). But the shaping of the legs was a lot of fun. Spokeshave, rasp, sander. I rough cut them with a template and then shaped them both to match with the handtools. Tricky part was the maple inlay, which was insisted upon by the owner. I did not like the way they looked afterward and wanted to put another stringing inlay inside the maple inlay, but he insisted that that was how he wanted it.


----------



## vikingcape

Gotcha. Thanks Red. I don't have drawer runners, they are only wood on wood, in the frames. so I think I'm going to give this stuff a try. Thanks again


----------



## renners

Looks like my daughters desk is getting shunted to the back of the queue again. Phone call from my favourite client - the amateur interior designer - looking for a full height chimney breast panelling/fireplace combo in a hurry.










Yes, we shall have a turkey for Christmas…


----------



## ColonelTravis

Red & Hammer - thanks. Have thought also about a permanent flat area beside the angled part of desk, which would hold more stuff and be more stable. Will think more about this.

And thanks for the advice on the tape, I had wondered if that stuff worked.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Wow renners. Nice project just before Christmas! What flavor wood?


----------



## renners

That bad boy is going in teak, well when I say teak, I mean iroko, but still… a lot of fun to design


----------



## vikingcape

Please show us a picture of that when you get it done Renners, would love to see the finished product. Teak is not a bad wood to have laying around


----------



## BigRedKnothead

+1 on keeping us posted Renners. I had to look up iroko.

Alright, red oak blanket chest for the outlaws is underway. Probably won't get done by Xmas, but I don't care. I always tell folks I don't do deadlines on furniture. Luxury of a hobbyist. That, and the ability to drink beer at work.

Here's my highly sophisticated drawing. It gives me a general plan/design. I often change stuff as I go due materials or how the design looks to my eye. 
All my designs with curves were rejected. So, I'm gonna do bookmatched QS panels, and varied thickness materials (5/4, 4/4, 3/8") to give it depth.










One of the areas I've improved on is material/grain selection. It starts looking like this:









I lay out as much material as I can and check it all out. Sometimes I use a flashlight to see the QS rays. Then I start marking with chalk. I can tell early on which pieces are gonna be the best looking panels etc. I like riftsawn for door styles…and so on. It helps to have excess material. If you don't have that luxury, make the best plan with what you've got.

I'll take ya'll along for the ride if want. There's bound to be some good, bad, and ugly;-)


----------



## CFrye

Strapping in and ready to take notes Red!


----------



## john2005

Boy you weren't lying when you said they like plain. This will be cool to see though. Wife wants a chest at the foot of our bed. Maybe I will get some ideas, tips and possibly some motivation out of this.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I really wanted to arch the top rail all the way across. That would have increased the difficulty….but it woulda looked cool imo. Maybe next time.

Not too worried though. Most A&C plans look drab on paper. Never underestimate the power of quartersawn oak. I learned this on my first blanket chest. It resides in my living room…and will remain there.


----------



## theoldfart

Nice piece Red. Don't like full solid panels?








Actually my next one will have much the same thing that you are doing with a curved top stretcher.


----------



## renners

Great finish on that blanket box Red, how did you achieve that?


----------



## lysdexic

Kevin, just to confirm, that is cherry and maple?


----------



## theoldfart

Scotty, yea. The cherry is from a friends farm and sawed by another friend.


----------



## lightcs1776

BigRed, my wife and I both agree … beautiful blanket chest.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Thanks man. Honestly I forgot I had posted it as a project:


Renners- finish is my tried and true Dark walnut danish oil and wipe-on satin poly. I wet-sanded the walnut oil on the panels to make the rays "pop" even more. 
Won't be that this time. They want golden oak color. Sigh.

Kev- nothing wrong with that at all. Nice lookin chest there. I'm kinda stuck in an A&C rut.


----------



## vikingcape

Great job on those blanket chests fellas. They really are nice looking. Red if you ever want to trade shops just let me know. My garage feels smaller every day. But if I annoy my wife enough with the sawdust maybe a shop will show up in the back yard…..


----------



## Airframer

But if I annoy my wife enough with the sawdust maybe a shop will show up in the back yard…..

You may find your shop has been MOVED out to the backyard but no guarantee it will be enclosed in anything lol..


----------



## lysdexic

Although not the correct forum exactly, but speaking of A&C, Rojo did you ever see this guys clocks?

TJCROSS


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Kaleb- It's all glitz and glamour. 
Reality: my toddler totally overflowed the bathtub the other day. Didn't realize it trickled down onto my hand plane till. When I saw the rust…. son of a %*^#!.....lol


----------



## WhoMe

I havent read this full thread yet except for a couple pages here and there but one of my goals/dreams is to build some furniture for my home and hopefully for others on commission. Plans do include a nice tool cabinet and a workbench too. 
in the mean time, i'm not sure if this was covered yet but what do people use to get the grain to pop with curly maple?
I have heard things like a coat of walnut oil prior to clear finish. I have also heard of tinting the wood with a dye, say a amber or light brown, then sand it back a bit so the tint is sanded off the dense parts of the grain while the soft parts retain the tint prior to clear finish. 
Two of my projects involve curly maple as the main wood with other contrasting wood for the drawer fronts and door panel inserts. 
Would love any hints or insights.


----------



## waho6o9

Bhog knows how to pop curly maple grain. Check out his projects
when you like.
http://lumberjocks.com/bhog/projects

a1Jim did a review on Charles Niels book on finishing as well, seems
to be a well received in depth look on finishing techniques. 
http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/3625


----------



## theoldfart

Red, wet sanding danish oil? what kind of sanding medium?


----------



## LukieB

Mike, I use shellac to make curly maple and figured boards pop a little more. BLO works good too, but I find it yellows maple a bit. Nice thing about shellac it's compatible with everything, so you can put whatever you want over it. Poly, lacquer, wax, more shellac…whatever


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Scotty- I have seen that guys clocks. He is a masterful finisher.

Kev- I used that black wet sandpaper wrapped around a cork block. 600-800 grit. Pretty sure I got that idea from Flexner.

Mike- I haven't done much curly/flamed woods. But most everyone uses aniline dyes and/or shellac to achieve that. Bhog's work is a good example.

Finishing isn't my strength. Most everything I do know about finishing comes from trial and error….and this book:








Flexner is good stuff. The newer versions are worth it due to the ever changing products.


----------



## ShaneA

Those clocks above are some of my favorite projects on this site, and that is saying something…cause there is a lot of top notch eye candy here.


----------



## vikingcape

Just stained my drawer pulls. As much as I'd like to I don't own a lathe so I cut 1.5 square pieces of my small chunk of spalted maple and stained them to match the case. After I cut them I used a cove bit in my router to make the bottoms. With my drawer fronts being ambrosia maple it's really going to pop. So close to being done…......


----------



## theoldfart

I need to put a finish on these chairs. What's good to show up random glue spots and tear out? They are white oak and I'm doing Danish oil and Arm-r Seal salad bowl finish. Don't want to worry about my granddaughter gnawing on them.
Edit oh yea almost forgot pic!


----------



## lysdexic

Kevin, won't wiping with mineral spirits expose glue spots?


----------



## theoldfart

Thats what I want to know Scotty, so thanks.


----------



## lysdexic

I have also read that many wood glues will show up under a UV / black light. However, I have never tried it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Scotty beat me to it(mineral spirits). Bust out a good card scraper Kev.

Likin' the pulls Kaleb. I go back and forth whether I would like to have a lathe.


----------



## bhog

Coming late to the party.

I really enjoy making furniture and would love to someday do it for a living. Here is a table I made for our place when we bought it this year.


----------



## CL810

Really nice b!


----------



## theoldfart

Damn BH it looks just FINE!


----------



## lightcs1776

Great looking table, Bhog.


----------



## lysdexic

Got any closer pics there hogalina?


----------



## bhog

I can get you one there Yo


----------



## BigRedKnothead

bhog- better late than never. Your ears musta been burnin'. Your skills finishing curly woods came up recently.


----------



## bhog

Here's a couple real quick ones( was in bed)


















If you want any specific ones let me know.


----------



## bhog

Oh yeah? Mostly good I hope lol. 
They do burn on occasion though. That is … normal …. right?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice table Bhog. Is the maple veneer?

Also, nice pulls Kaleb. Can't wait to see pics of the finished product.

Kevin - those chairs came out awesome. Have you done the seats yet?

Been away in San Fran for a few. Took a few pics at the Grace Cathedral. Here is a couple:



















And pics of some of the antiques:





































The Cathedral


----------



## theoldfart

Paul, latter this week on the seats. I still need to put a finish on. Thanks for the complement.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Wow Paul. I woulda like to been a fly on the wall the craftsman were making those pieces back in the day.

Here's a not so little bit on *solid bookmatched panels*. The seem simple, but there are techniques to getting great looking panels. On a piece like this blanket chest, I start with the panels. They get the choice cuts, and I want to have some flexibility on the dimensions depending on how the panels are turning out.

With QS material, I like to find medullary rays like this:









Because when cut and bookmatched they give this great arched look:









So cut some nicely figure boards to length. Leave them oversized. You'll want some play. With a lot of panels (12 on this chest), I made one extra. Never fails when you resaw and plane…you'll have some nasty defect or ridiculous tearout. 
With the boards cut to length, I like to rip a kerf top and bottom. (couple passes)









This makes it easier on my wussy 1HP bandsaw. Keeps the blade from straying as well. 








Now, don't get your pairs mixed up, but move on to the planer. You can be aggressive planing off the ugly bandsaw blade marks. But after than, you'll want light passes. And pay attention to grain direction….or you'll be sorry. I planed these down to 5/16". That's about the most you can get out of 4/4 material. 









Tearout…never fails. Some pieces hate you and everything you stand for. For these pieces there is the no. 80 scraper. 









Now play with your panels. Try 'em different ways, see which looks best. If they're oversized, you can rip some off the seam edge to get a better look when needed.










When you get what you want, fold them like a book, plane a nice glue edge. 









Gluey schmoooey. I'll start gluing these a couple at a time while I mill the other parts to the project. 









Smoothing bookmatched panels can be a pistol…..cause the grain flips right on the seam. I give my best shot. Followed up by scrapers and fine hand sanding.

Might all sound simple, but if you try to make some one day…..and make the look good! You'll see, there's some method to the madness. 
For those who can add or improve on my process, I'm all ears.


----------



## pintodeluxe

Thanks for the reminder to kerf at the tablesaw before resawing at the bandsaw. That should help on my current library desk project.

Keep up the good work.


----------



## lightcs1776

Red, great step through of the process. I'll be adding this to my favorites as I'd like to make something like the blanket chest as my skills develop.

I'm also saving Bhog's table for a future project as well. Amazing work shown here.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys. I go back and forth as to whether I should make these little tutorials as blog entries. I'm sure that would make it easier to reference them.


----------



## lightcs1776

The tutorials are great, especially for new woodworkers like myself. Please keep it up.


----------



## CL810

Red thanks for the tutorial.

Red your post brings up a point that I wish we could do something about. And that is searching within a thread instead of the whole LJ site. Maybe if enough people message MsDebbie they will get the message. How many times have you wanted to find something on one of any number of long threads and gave up?


----------



## Sprung

I've been following this thread since its beginning. I've only built a small handful of pieces so far, but I love building furniture and have been enjoying following along here. Red, your little tutorials, as well as the info/tutorials others post, are extremely informative. Whether you post them here or in a series of blog posts, please keep posting them!


----------



## theoldfart

Red, that technique works with hand saws as well:


----------



## Hammerthumb

Red - I see your point about blogs, although I have not posted any. I find it hard to blog a project as I take so long to build stuff. But your little tutorials would be easier for people to search as blogs. I should have done one on the cove pieces I made for the chest I'm building. I'll probably go back and do that at some time. I hope this thread continues to grow with more postings like we have had so far - furniture pics, tutorials, questions, etc. This has become my favorite thread! (except Stefs crazy thread)


----------



## bhog

Thanks guys. The maple is solid not veneer.


----------



## rhett

Next table in the spill over slab series. Made the first one while plane orders were slow. Fortunate that the "right" person saw it, sold wholesale and now I'm building multiple spill overs for different boutique shops.


----------



## lysdexic

"(except Stefs crazy thread)"

which one?


I take a defeatist attitude toward information within threads. The consolation is that they are conversations. It is true that the information is not searchable and retrievable but it has its effect on us. Don't you wish you could index the conversations you had with your grandfather or your children? I do. But the fact that that are fleeting also makes them precious. Not everything in the life of man can be Googled and maybe it shouldn't be.

Then again, maybe I am just an old fart.


----------



## theoldfart

name dropper


----------



## Hammerthumb

Scott - your probably right about the threads. I think that if someone is looking for information that might have previously been posted, someone will be around to offer direction to that information. Or it might start a new conversation that leads to other information that might not have been previously reviewed.

Or, you are just an old fart. (Sorry Kevin)


----------



## TechRedneck

I think you may be right Scott.

I enjoy the conversational style here on LJ's and follow most of the larger threads on hand tools and of course this one. If you could just google the answer then it would slow the pace of innovation. Reading the posts as they evolve forces you to follow along. I have a stack of cards next to my Lazy Boy and jot down little tips. I remember later that I wrote something and grab the stack of cards. It is "old school" for an IT guy like me but it works.

Blogs are a great way to capture a specific method or idea. I have a number of them saved, however if you save everything then you never go back to look. Often if someone asks a question someone else will pop in and reference a blog post. Then another person chimes in with their opinion. In the end you get several solutions in a timely manner and we move on.

I used to check this site during the day at work but have to force myself not to. Usually I will log in during the evenings or when I get out of the shop. It is like the matrix, you can get sucked in and time becomes irrelevant.

Red:

Your re-saw mini-blog was great. Usually I just run the board through the bandsaw, but using the table saw to kerf the board is a great idea. That would be a good blog post! I have a thin kerf blade that lives on the table saw but if you had a full width blade it would take a bunch of wood with it. Smoothing the bookmatched pair out would be easier as well.

A drum sander makes short work of it. I don't regret spending the money on my Jet 16-32. I seldom use the planer now to remove bandsaw marks. I keep 120 grit on the drum then go to scrapers. Never have tear out issues. I would have to say that a drum sander is one of the most used power tools in the shop. DC is a must however.


----------



## vikingcape

Question: without getting to much debate going, you guys who have built a lot with drawers I was thinking shellac for the inside of the drawers? I don't want to have a smell in there for weeks, so poly, Danish oil and waterlox are out. Will the shellac work? I know I have heard leaving them unfinished but I'd like to have something in there.

Thoughts?


----------



## waho6o9

+1 for shellac. After the dry fit, shellac it to suite, glue it, done.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

rhett- Gotta love it when that happens. Last year I totally built a sideboard for less that I should have. I was hoping it would show people what I could do and generate some commissions…..it worked. Glad it did for you too.

Sprung&lightcs1776- glad ya'll are diggin the forum. As anyone who attempts to teach will confess, the teacher learns as much as the pupil.

Scotty- you articulated it well again. I think I will make some of my little tutorials in blogs. I've already invested the time, and they are easier to reference that way. That said, I'm glad I'm not the only who appreciates the ongoing conversation found in forums.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well, it wasn't too difficult to reference back and make my tutorials into blogs. I'll still post that stuff to on the forum though.

http://lumberjocks.com/BigRedKnothead/blog/38714
http://lumberjocks.com/BigRedKnothead/blog/38717
http://lumberjocks.com/BigRedKnothead/blog/38718


----------



## rhett

With the response to this thread and your, clearer than the majority, instruction. It may be time for something like "Big Reds Knot a blog"...

I'll subscribe if you start one. Who knows, start shilling for tool companies and you could end up with alot of free machinery. Works well for some, fortune favors the bold.

Be Good
Rhett


----------



## CL810

+1


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Rhett- there are a few who have went that route….even on this site. Not sure if it's my style. Feels a bit like selling out.

I've always admired the way Chris Schwarz handles tool reviews and the like to stay above reproach. He doesn't keep any of it. Goes back to the toolmaker.

That said, if LN started showering me with bronze, I would sell my soul in a heartbeat…..LOL (totally joking)


----------



## Airframer

Red- I know how you feel about the blog thing. I have actually had one setup for a few months now but have yet to actually "set" it up. I just don't know if I have anything of use to share with the world via a blog other than my ramblings here. That said I have a pretty sweet domain name reserved lol.

BTW.. I would totally subscribe if you ever setup an off site blog


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Maybe someday on the blog. I've already shown you guys most of the stuff I know about furniture making. I'd need more material;-)

So I ripped down a red oak 1×10. It was nice and straight as a wider board. Not so much ripped into narrower rails. I hate it when that happens. 









My shop elf and I said, "Forget it. Let's practice dovetails."


----------



## lightcs1776

Sweet picture. She just needs an elf hat!


----------



## CFrye

Cute little shop elf Red!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Shop elf










Shop elf with daughter










By the way Red, from what I can see your elf cuts some nice dovetails. She givin you lessons?


----------



## CFrye

Paul, your shop elf looks like it's trying to figure out that real funny looking mouse! Your daughter has a beautiful smile. Got your shot gun loaded and handy?


----------



## lysdexic

From a new favorite magazine. Why didn't I think of that!?


----------



## ShaneA

Yikes, looks problematic Scotty. Cool, but I bet easily f'ed up.

Edit: Garden and Gun?


----------



## lysdexic

Yep - Garden and Gun

I am sure there are nuances. But still, I admire the ingenuity.


----------



## CL810

Did they seal it with shellac? Makes sense to. Fire/smoke damage restoration companies use shellac to trap odors in exposed wood.


----------



## ShaneA

Seems like it would need to have some sort of film finish on it, if not, if you were to touch it, you would have an instant charcoal stain. I am assuming it was built, then torched. Gotta be a fine line between success and ashes on this one. Lots of possibilities where someone could take this look.


----------



## lysdexic

From the article:

Charring-an ancient Japanese technique used to prevent rot and bugs-is achieved by binding together three boards (anywhere from eight to fourteen feet high) to create a makeshift chimney. The flames of a small fire at the base of the structure are then pulled upward, scorching the inside surfaces of all three boards to create deep grooves and patterns that resemble alligator hide. (To date, the fire department has shown up at the studio only once to survey the scene.) But don't worry about soot rubbing off on clean duds or a new carpet; the boards are brushed and sealed without altering the showstopping aesthetic.


----------



## lysdexic

I bet some of the irregularities and trim are just painted.


----------



## WhoMe

Dang, $1250 for that. I bet if I raided all the fire pits here at the campground, there's gotta be a couple K worth of burnt wood. Lol
Gotta give that person an A for thinking of that and marketing it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Charred furniture huh. That's what my grandpa would call "artsy-fartsy."

Paul- good lookin' shop elf and daughter. My girls are much more interested in my shop than my son. They aren't girly-girls at all. They spend a lot of time making "monster traps" and other contraptions with my scraps. If they don't end up as engineers or something I'll be surprised. Actually, there's a great commercial that reminds me of girls found here.

Happy Turkey day ya'll. Be thankful.


----------



## TechRedneck

Best wishes to all for a good Thanksgiving!

And for those LJ's outside the US, We'll have a slice of pie for ya'all.

Wife and I have had two of the grandkids here for a few days, a 3yr old and 5 yr old. Whew! Lots of energy!


----------



## john2005

Ironically the last coffee table I built was from beetle killed pine. It was a wedding present for a buddy who went from logging to wild land fire fighting. So I left it rough cut, "rounded the edges with a draw knife and then lit the whole mess on fire. I actually painted gas where I wanted it to burn then let er rip. Touched that up with a torch, then after everything had "simmered down" scraped off the pitch and coated with poly. It was pretty cool.
I know it didn't happen without pics, but I got it done the day before the wedding and they left shortly after for Burlington WA. Haven't seen them since. Either way, it was cool


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^No kidding John. I wish you did have some pics. That sounds cool. Neat idea.

Elaborating on my issue with true stock. A couple of my lumber sources like to run their lumber through a planer prior to sale, "So you can see what your getting." Early on I thought that was handy….but not anymore. This is not ideal for a furniture maker. I want it rough cut. That way I have some thickness to play with when I want to joint/true up the stock. As with the boards pictured, they're already at 3/4". I can't take much more off. I'll just have to re-purpose them.

Anyway, something I've learned.


----------



## jmartel

Rough cut is typically cheaper, as well. I pay about $0.30-0.50/bdft less for roughcut.


----------



## JohnnyStrawberry

Hi all, may I join the flow?
Furniture making is actually THE purpose of my shop. The first paragraph of the topic header sums it up perfectly for me. The world of furniture making is way enough rich for (at least) a lifetime.
So the bare title of this forum caught me. Having read through the first few dozen comments I'd already felt like joining.
Having read through all the comments (took a while…) I must say this is a GREAT thread.
So, I'm literally in the middle of my biggest project so far. Complete set of kitchen cabinets.
The first stage was to build the counter top. (I built the tops first because I use raw tung oil for the finish and that takes some time to cure…)
Well, since I designed the cabinets to be modular, each cabinet has its own top. Five parts; two basic cabinets (hutches) and one with the sink and one for the built in stove & oven and practically a bridge above the fridge between the sink cabinet and the stove/oven cabinet.
The top looks like this:









Exclusively out of wood. Steamed black locust, beech dowels.

Structure:









End grain:









Right now I don't have any photo of the 'bridge' suspension although that was by far the most interesting part of the counter top build.
Shall I post further steps of the build, too?


----------



## CL810

Yes!


----------



## LukieB

Johnny, Yes, yes you should….


----------



## Pezking7p

The black locust is beautiful, and a great counter top choice. How hard was it to work?

I'm about to start my kitchen cabinets, and I wish I had an island or some accent like that where I could use a wood top, but we're going for all granite, and don't have any good areas to use a different type of top.


----------



## waho6o9

Yes


----------



## ShaneA

Great stuff Johnny.

I will throw out a heads up on Jet clamps. On sale at a few places for 50% off. I picked up a few from Acme tools. Spendy, but with a sales price bring them closer to this cheapskate's price range.


----------



## JohnnyStrawberry

Black locust is pretty hard, strong and heavy as well. I like it for its strength and hardness. Quite prone to tear out though. I'm glad I surfaced our bed climb cut with the router. Even though it was a royal mess…
Good for you Shane. 
Today was definitely a Dovetail Day for me.
Lots of sliding dovetail for edge joining:









And started dovetailing the drawers.









Noticed something?
Yep, f..d it up.  The walnut back should've looked like the cherry front… But I saved it cutting off 5/16" of the walnut. This drawer will be ~ 5/8" shorter than I planned. Oops
Tomorrow morning I'll take and post some further photos of the counter top. (the joinery of the 'bridge')


----------



## lightcs1776

Great to see additional steps on your project. I don't know anything about black locust, so I am interested in seeing the end results. Looks great so far.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Johnny- I've never seen sliding dovetails for edge jointing. How do you go about that?

You've got some nice work going on there in Hungary. I hadn't seen your bed yet. That deserves some props. Very nice.


----------



## JohnnyStrawberry

Thanks.

For dovetailing your edges they have to be parallel to the 1-2 thousandths. Not an easy task… I've got a hammer a31 and it's just a crude toy for this… After a few passes I have to reset the tables to be under 1th" coplanar…
(It's simply not enough the tables being cast iron; the whole body should be cast iron as well. [2stars rating sums it up.])

All right, I have matching edges now. Great. But if I used my router table to make the dovetailing it'd sure f…'em up. Partly because of the insufficient accuracy of my router table (0.01"), partly because of the weight and poor maneuverability of some boards.
So I move the router on the edge. That means I had to make a router base plate fence for my palm router. It turned out great.

Now two words about sliding dovetailing… climb cut. Fortunately I learnt it on a test piece. (I've always been a big fan of climb cutting anyways.)

*Groove*
First I relief rout the center line with a straight bit (6mm) Then I change to my tiniest dovetail bit (9.5mm) and I rout the groove from both sides - not changing the position of the base plate fence assures a perfectly symmetrical groove.

*Tongue*
CLIMB CUT! Setting the depth of cut a little (~0.01") shallower, I first set the base plate fence to make very light passes on each sides. Then gradually (usually in 2 phases) setting the fence to rout the tongue to the width of the groove. Since it is made from both sides with the same setup, the tongue is also perfectly symmetrical.
Note that this technique assures that if I don't push perfectly the base plate fence against the work piece, that will neither be seen nor will it make the sliding harder. Because in a case like that the tongue would be narrower or the groove would be wider. Quite fool proof.

   

The photos I promised yesterday:








The tongue and groove were made the same way as the sliding dovetails but with a straight bit.
The dowel in the front keeps the front edge of the tops perfectly in line.
It's also pegged from below to keep them tightly.








The pegged domino in the back keeps the tongue tightly in the groove but allows for wood movement.
It's critical because the tongue is 24" span flat sawn end grain but the groove is mostly in long/edge grain.








Sorry for being so long.


----------



## CL810

^ Hello i am Jayden Moorie from Mississauga,Canada from my childhood i am very much interested in Dancing and traveling i think life is a ticket of greatest show on earth so enjoy it.

Spammer.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Here's what I've been working on…..;-)










Ya, feels like my blanket chest is going at a snails pace. That's ok. Getting some great time with the family. I'll start hittin' it in the next couple of days.


----------



## jmartel

I'm almost finished with my coffee table. So close. Just need to put some poly on it over the danish oil, attach the drawers and drawer fronts, and then it's done.


----------



## lightcs1776

Big Red, looks incredible. I hope you don't mind if I make it my goal to make a blanket chest like that in 2014. My wife loves it (I'm pretty impressed with it myself).


----------



## Pezking7p

Lotta stuff in that living room you built. Must feel nice.


----------



## Airframer

Red - We were working on the same thing lol..










I have discovered that children are born with an inherent love of everything Christmas.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yep it's a cool feeling. Recently I realized that the only furniture left in our house that I haven't made is the leather couches and our bedroom set. I plan on making those someday too;-)

Chris- Shoot even if I designed it I wouldn't care. The world needs more QSWO blanket chests anyway. I'm pretty sure I started it within weeks of seeing it on the cover of the April 2010 woodworkers journal. If you have trouble getting some plans lemme know and I'll hook you up.

Eric- outstanding! It's never quite like the postcards in real life. But it's still good.

jmartel- your table needs some props on here too. Looks outstanding:


----------



## jmartel

Like I said, it's almost finished. Giving the oil another day to cure before I rub it out with steel wool and then apply some poly.

Here's the base:


----------



## lightcs1776

Great to hear, BigRed. You have done a great job on the furniture.

Looking good, JMartel.


----------



## Pezking7p

You guys have inspired me to make fine furniture. If I could just get these kitchen cabinets done I could get on with the fun stuff…


----------



## lysdexic

Jmart - that's really incredible. Kudos to you, sir.


----------



## vikingcape

Finishing…...and finishing….....and finishing…...getting there


----------



## dbray45

JS - Something to think about. I did a tongue oil finish on my kitchen counters - because it is food safe. Looked and worked great - until - areas around the sink that routinely got wet. Mold was growing on the counter. I ended up putting a couple of coats of spar urethane (oil based) on the counter after cleaning up the mold.

Something I found out - polyurethane and the spar versions are not food safe UNTIL they have cured. Once cured, there are no issues but either way, you will want to get some cutting boards to protect the counter.

To help the curing, I set the counters outside in the sun on some nice warm days. This helped a great deal.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Got a little bit of work done over the holiday. I have the raised panel carcase glued and assembled. Top and bottom are roughed to size but need some detail work on the edges. I oiled the web frames before install.










The web frames are glued in the first 1.5" and rest in dado slots to allow for movement. I also pinned them at the sides with 1/8" brass rod 1/2" from the face.










I'll try to get to the edge detail for the top and bottom tonight, then oil the outside of the case and install the columns. Drawers after that. LukieB sent me some Indian Rosewood for the drawer faces, but don't know if there will be enough. Sure hope so.


----------



## Hammerthumb

By the way, nice work from all. Have not been on for a while and enjoyed catching up on all of the posts.


----------



## vikingcape

Paul that is looking sweet man. Can't wait to see it done. What are you using for finish?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Finish is BLO and past wax. Ipe, although very dense contains lots of oil and can be burnish with nothing but fine grade sandpaper, or wood shavings. I like the color the BLO gives it and the tactile feel of the wax. See the picture frame in my projects (on IPhone - can't provide link) and you will see how much darker the color gets. Don't know what the drawers will be finished with until I figure out what species I am using.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ Great stuff Paul. Brass pins? Never woulda thought of that…..but I like it.

Kaleb- Finishing is an exercise in patience for me too. Almost there man.

Got goin' on the blanket chest this morning. The four legs with mitered splines are done. I have my own little way of doing that. Heck, maybe I'll make another blog post on it tomorrow.


----------



## pintodeluxe

I tried lapped dovetails for the first time last night. 








-
-
-
I established the shoulders with a dado blade.








-
-
-
Then cut the tails at the bandsaw. Do I avoid hand tools like the plague or what? When the dovetail saw doesn't even get used for lapped dovetails, you know you have a power tool addiction. 








-
-
-
Plunge router and spiral bit…








-
-
-
I cut close to the line with the router, and chiseled to the line. 








-
-
-
They came out well, and should make a sturdy little desk. 








-
-
-


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice Willie. I haven't tried that method yet. 
I've wondered if it's better to route near the line and chisel….as you did. Or could/should you chop down next to the line a bit, and use a bearing guided bit with the recess you've made. Hmmmm.

Didn't you do something like that on your bench *Scott*?


----------



## pintodeluxe

I marked the mortise with a knife, so when it came time to chisel it was pretty easy to do.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Willie - I use a sloped piece of wood and the fence for cutting tails on the band saw. 6 to 1 or 7 to 1. Mark where you want the tails, adjust the fence, make the cut, flop the board over and cut the other side, move the fence to the next tail, etc. it's a lot more accurate than freehanding. I do cut the pins or sockets by hand though.


----------



## Hammerthumb

By the way, looking forward to your blog post Red. Gotta love those mitered legs!

Nice looking base you have there Willie. Whatcha makin?


----------



## lysdexic

Rojo - I did the exact same thing in my condor tails except reversed the steps. First I rabbeted the dovetail so it register to the end cap.



















Then, like Pinto, I routed out close line but only 1/4" deep. Then pared to the line and fit the tail. Once happy with the fit, then routed the rest with a pattern bit. This keeps the walls of the pins square when the tails are real thick.




























Basically it is the same technique and Willie demonstrates the excellent results you can achieve using it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ Like I tell my boy, "That's how it's done….sonnn!


----------



## JohnnyStrawberry

Wow Jmartel that top is stunning!
Kaleb, see the positive side; you've got through sanding.  I hope I can also start finishing the drawers tonight.
Excellent tips David! I'm a chemical engineer by trade so I'm aware of the properties of these finishes. Extra kudos on the sunlight tip!  (The first time I saw it written down on LJs.) Synthetic finishes just don't fit my natural furniture philosophy. How much time did it take to get moldy? I figured that if I provide sufficient number of cutting boards (one new every few months), the table (and presumably the counter) top is safe. ))
Paul, looking great so far. I hope you've got enough rosewood.
Willie, I've always liked your work. Looking forward to seeing the top. I have the same addiction…
Awesome dovetails Scott! Good to see people shamelessly using electric tools. ;-)


----------



## bondogaposis

Interesting, but I can't really picture myself building a piece of furniture then setting it on fire.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Spline strengthened miters are done. Made a little bloggy about it.

New Blog


----------



## dbray45

JS - Black surface mold started about 2 weeks of real service. My wife cooks a lot and around the sink gets wet - 8" perimeter. Also found that the little rubber feet on some of these blenders, can openers, toaster ovens, etc… react with tung oil. It was a "SURPRISE" to find that out.

Polyurethanes (oil based) are being shipped with a lot less dryers than those of old. The sun light and deep warming have a real positive curing effect - not just drying. Makes a nice hard finish - use rottenstone to finish polish and car wax to finish and you will have a seriously nice counter top.

Make two end-grain chopping blocks about 8/4 thick and you will be good for 10 years - one for vegetables and one for meat.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Geez Red! Thats tight. Almost can't see the spline. Gotta read that blog.


----------



## Texcaster

After years of making gifts I have come up with a good easy one. Minimal timber, effort and polishing, maximum effect. They started out as something to keep the neighbors sweet but now I just keep them in stock to gift and sell.


----------



## ShaneA

Damn, those are cool Bill. Really slick design.


----------



## vikingcape

Bill those are really neat. I like that a lot.

Red where did the spline go? Kidding, you really buried that sucker, if you hadn't said you had it I wouldn't have seen it.


----------



## theoldfart

Damn, Cextaster those look good! Ooops been on a plane for several hours and just finished a couple of beers with my son in law. Haven't seen my grandson in almost a year so life is good right now. Again great design.


----------



## Pezking7p

It looks like a herd of tables.

I really like them. Something very eye catching about them.


----------



## lysdexic

Good for you Kevin. Make some memories.


----------



## Texcaster

Cheers fellas, the thicknesses are 3/8- 5/16, whatever I can get resawing 1in. Western Red Cedar and Oregon 
( Doug. Fir )


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"Almost can't see the spline."

Ya guys, even after the blog I'm second guessing myself. I kinda like the splines to show They might pop out after stain. Otherwise I should probably do them cross grain or with an accent wood. 
Either way, most all of the miters came out that well. And I'm happy about that.

Kev- Happy for ya. Soak it up.

Tex- Cool little tables. I could use some gift ideas about now.


----------



## Texcaster

Red if you or the others want to make these tables, I say go for your life. I would only ask that you call them
" Cigar Box Tables ". I posted these on " cigar box nation " and asked the members to copy and decorate as they see fit. They are very inventive over there especially when it comes to decorating their guitars. I want to start a gallery of all the variations. No takers yet, it might be a little too much woodwork.

They were inspired by my CBG Bass














































I haven't decorated mine yet. It's meant to be a Goanna crawling up the side and on the top.


----------



## JohnnyStrawberry

Cool tables, Bill. Is that a log bench in the background on the first pic? That looks great, too.
David, that's incredible! Even some bread goes moldy slower… Although I suspect that that "Tung oil" must've had nothing to do with real tung oil, the main issue must've been the wood species. What was it? Some hardwood are of excellent strength and hardness but poor on longevity (for example beech, red oak). The reason why I'm not really concerned is that black locust is exceptionally resistant to rot, mold or any fungi. Besides, our table top is also finished with tung oil and it regularly gets fruit and vegetable juice and lots of water from the washed goodies and it still looks great. It's made of cherry.
Slick cheat, Red.


----------



## dbray45

I used a very high quality tung oil, the wood is cherry - shouldn't have been a problem but was.


----------



## JohnnyStrawberry

Hmmm. No clue then. :-| I'll post follow-up photos after a few months.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Another thing. When I cut the miters, I numbered the pairs in hopes to make the grain would line up and wrap around the corner. Maybe the visual effect will be worth it.










New router lift works great. Now I'm cookin' with bacon.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I still need to get one of those Red. After Christmas gift to myself.


----------



## Pezking7p

Is the router lift mostly helpful when you need to carefully set height for something like a tongue and groove set?


----------



## vikingcape

Red You cook bacon on your router? What kind of bit does that?

Bill I think I might have to try your cigar box table I like it a lot


----------



## BigRedKnothead

It's just helpful for the height adjustment overall. Getting panel grooves like this centered was the biggest problem with my old setup. 
Like I posted earlier, a router lift isn't mandatory to have a functional router table…. but they are very slick, precise, and convenient. This might help:

Router lift video.


----------



## Pezking7p

Cool video. I think I got turned off when the guy at woodcraft tried to sell me a $400 router lift for a $300 router. Of course, the same guy tried to sell me a sawstop after I asked him what saws he had for under $1000.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, even the rockler for $170 on sale was painful. My Jet proshop tablesaw was under $1000 when I bought it years back. I see it's not anymore. Darn stuff's uh-spensive .

Wish I could say that it's all Lie-Nielsen quality, and worth every penny. But I know better.


----------



## Pezking7p

Question: if I'm going to be making a full size dining table, I assume I need hand planes to flatten the top. What sizes are recommended for this? #5 and an #8? Trying to focus my plane shopping.


----------



## TCCcabinetmaker

well, a bench plane is sufficient as long as any clamped up lumber is clamped up fairly evenly, if the wood is not equal in sizes you may need a jointer, or a jack. I don't do the number thing, that's too confusing for people who don't have stanley's readily available.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well, if its really out of flat, a jack plane (no 5) will save some time by hogging off the high spots as a first step. But technically it can all be done with a jointer (no. 7 or 8) and a smoother (no. 3, 4 or my fav, a no 4 1/2).

Flattening a table top is not much different than flattening a bench. Here's a demonstrative pic from when I flattened my joinery bench. Starting back to front, a jack taking off the high spots, then a jointer working diagonally, then long ways. Last would be the smoother, with the grain of course.


----------



## Pezking7p

Probably I should make a bench before the table, eh? The construction seems somewhat similar.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Wouldn't hurt. I encourage everyone to build their own bench. You will learn a ton…and it's a lot of fun.

There's always a lotta good stuff bench stuff going on the workbench smackdown forum if you need some inspiration;-)


----------



## waho6o9

Here's a cost effective bench for ya Pezking7p:
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/93097

Fellow LJer, shipwright, made it and has detailed plans as well.

Good luck and a belated welcome to Lumber Jocks!


----------



## Texcaster

Johnny it is a log bench carved by a mate. He is a prickly character and he calls it " The Men's Debating Bench"

Kaleb, some details to attach the top. I rub fit the blocks to one side of the top, let it set about 10min, then add the bottom and the other side rub blocks. If the rub blocks on the aprons are square, you'll have no trouble.


----------



## JohnnyStrawberry

Waho, that workbench is a wicked job! Absolutely the best for a beginner, indeed.
 Bill. I like the lines of that log bench.
I thought you used dados for joinery but that would be less sturdy.


----------



## lightcs1776

Waho, I'm adding that bench to my favorites. I've been looking for something both affordable and movable. Looks like that would be a perfect fit.


----------



## vikingcape

Thanks Bill I'll have to give that a try


----------



## CFrye

I had to look up rub fit (rub joint). Thanks for starting my day with a new woodworking technique Bill!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Another less intimidating bench option is Schwarz's $175 workbench.
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/projects/175_workbench

I made one for my first bench. Now it's my sharpening station.









Furniture building is much more enjoyable on a decent bench.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

There are a couple components of furniture making that I procrastinated on. Coincidentally, they both have a learning curve. As in, you need to practice them before executing on that perfect drawer front etc.

1) Dovetails. I'm just now getting decent at them. I used to think they were a joiner's way of showing off, but really I was just a big fat chicken butt.

2) Hand planes. They can be maddening….but the rewards are worth it. Sanding was the only part of woodworking that I considered "work." I disdain sanding. I thoroughly enjoy using a proper smoothing plane. This past year I was fortunate to purchase some used Lie-Nielsen's. They…are….awesome.


----------



## lightcs1776

Hey Red, what did you do practise dovetails and planning? I've got a pine box I'm making to have something to practice dovetails with, but I am really going in blind. Thanks.


----------



## lysdexic

Good insight Rojo.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Chris- I use God's gift to hand tool woodworkers…...Poplar;-)
Clear pine will work fine too. Just don't do like I did and try to learn hand planes on QSWO with grain that changes direction 3 times over the length of the board. That will just tick you off. Sharpening is the key. I know, with woodworking it seems like every time you turn around you need to learn another skill. But sharpening is a great skill for life. 
I should note, you don't need LNs to get great results. They're just really nice.

Actually, after reading The Joiner and the Cabinetmaker recently, I committed to making a "dovetail a day for 30 days," as Schwarz suggested. Of course, its a dovetail a day for the days I actually get shop time. 
Anyway, I've been using 1/2" poplar. It's just so nice to work. It's my fav. secondary wood so I will in fact be using it for drawer sides in the future. 
These are the first totally hand cut dovetails I've attempted. Started out ugly, but I'm gettin better.


----------



## lightcs1776

Thanks for the advice, Red. I'm saving the QSWO for after I get a good feel for planing, when I build one of my kids a bookcase. I sharpened a cheap plane, but now need to sharpen the bailey #5 (purchased from a local LJ member). I'd like to get rough poplar to keep costs down, which would also give me plenty of time to plane.


----------



## lysdexic

Rojo, I did the exact same thing using poplar. Actually, I have started my 30 day journey a few times and fade at day 5 or so.

Lame.


----------



## dbray45

Red - you need to fix that first one. Find the high spot that closes the split and glue it up. If you have it too loose, make a thick shaving from your plane and fill the gap. You can make all of the tails smaller and use contrasting wood to fill the gap and you have a design feature - or put that set of dovetails at the back of the drawer.

It is not doing everything exactly right - it is fixing your mistakes so that it looks great.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

David- oh they're just practice. I literally just chop the old dovetail off and start again. My poplar boards are starting to get short on me;-)

Ya, I pushed the compression of the poplar a little too far on the first one. But I hear ya….go for as perfect as possible, and doctor up the rest. Trust me, there's some doctoring of my other joinery, let alone dovetails;-)

Scotty- We'll see how disciplined I stay. Right now my rule is: Upon entering the shop, I have to make a dovetail before I can resume building furniture. Every part of me wants to "be productive." But The progress on dovetails is rewarding. There was a time when I never thought I'd be able to do something like that by hand. 
I could have some myself some frustration by just practicing sawing a line first, but oh well. Repetition of the process isn't a bad thing either.


----------



## renners

The fireplace is started, locked myself away for a few days to do some extreme routing


















It is not doing everything exactly right - it is fixing your mistakes so that it looks great.

Amen to that


----------



## CFrye

"I literally just chop the old dovetail off and start again."

I see some poplar boards in my future…


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## Hammerthumb

Nice work there renners.

DT#5 looks good Red.


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## CL810

A couple of practice routines for dovetails are to switch it up between pins and tails first. The second is to practice sawing by drawing cut lines for tails and pins across a piece of scrap about 1/8" apart. Weaknesses will be quickly revealed. I do the latter before every project with DTs.


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## lysdexic

The second is to practice sawing by drawing cut lines for tails and pins across a piece of scrap about 1/8" apart.

I don't quite understand this.


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## theoldfart

I'd like to know as well.


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## chrisstef

I think hes saying that you should make a bunch of marks an 1/8" apart on a piece of scrap at the same angle youd cut a tail or pin at and just kerf it up. Practicing cutting the lines.


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## CL810

Something like this. Only probably a wider board.


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## theoldfart

Oh, now I got it.


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## lysdexic

like this…..

......sorry but this is the best I can do after sniffing glue


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## chrisstef

Those are some seriously tightly spaced cuts there Scotty. Nice work man. TB3 is the good stuff.


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## renners

Determining the mitre angle on the arch/winging it for the mitre angle on the arch.










Laid everything out in the right position on a bit of mdf, drew around it, then dissected the angle










eyed the cut

crossed fingers

held breath

chopped it




























Needs a little bit of fettling and we're good to go.


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## BigRedKnothead

Renners- nice work. That is extreme routing.

Thanks for the dovetail tip Andy. Still getting used to my LN dovetail saw. I'm much better at tasks that require brute force of finesse;-)
Also I tried tails first once. Didn't go so well. Maybe I should try again.

I'm trying to be like Stef today(dangerous), and master my no. 80 on these panels.


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## Hammerthumb

Don't know about you Red. Aspiring to be like Stef?


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## widdle

good lookin woodworkin goin on..

I cheat a bit with tails..ive found exhaling on the start of a cut, and completely









letting go of the saw helps on a sharp saw..


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## Hammerthumb

Hey renners - on those type of cuts I use a similar process:

Line up the cut
Take a deep breath
Close eyes
Use the "Power of the Force"

;-)


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## vikingcape

Renners that looks amazingly complex. That is some incredible work too. That's why you are the pro and I'm the guitarist.

Red you do pins first? I have to do tails first. The only time I did that was when I royally screwed up the piece I was work on and had to match the existing pins. That was an exercise in futility. Also I use a dozuki saw because when I wanted to learn how to cut dovetails my brother let me borrow two saws. One was his nice English dovetail saw, the other was a dozuki and said he didn't want the dozuki back. He also said not to fall in love with the English saw because he wanted that back. So I never even tried using it. Now that I am getting more and more comfortable with dovetails, I don't think I can even touch a white boy saw


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## BigRedKnothead

Kaleb- Nah, I'm tails first too. I was just saying I've tried pins first…..and it didn't go well. 
Also I tried a Japanese saw, it just felt foreign(pathetic pun) to me. It's the kids saw now.

Widdle- Cheater…..hehe. I've seen those magnets that hold your saw at the correct angle as well. But I've gotta learn to saw accurately by hand sometime. And ya, starting a sharp saw on end grain isn't as easy as it looks.

With smoothing the bookmatched panels in the previous pic….trying something new. I'm using a smoothing plane where I can. Then I'm using a scraper on the middle seam (because the grain is opposites on the seam). It's going pretty well.
Proud of myself that I haven't thrown in the towel and grabbed the ROS thus far.


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## widdle

No magnets involved there..just refrence point..good for paring too..


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## CL810

When sawing on end grain if you find the teeth are biting too much, try lowering your hand on the handle down towards the floor. Ideally, just the weight of the saw plate gets things started.

Way cool Renners.


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## vikingcape

Hey guys, with the ez glide tape for underneath drawers, are there any special considerations or is it just to stick it on and be done with it? Meaning do I need to do anything to the wood before hand? Just want to know from the woodworkers who have used it. Thanks


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## BigRedKnothead

Not that I know of Kaleb. I'm sure oily wouldn't be good, that stuff would stick to any cured finish or even bare wood.

Andy- I have the LN dovetail saw with the tapered plate. I think it's supposed to help starting the saw by having at at an angle as you say. I don't know about that. It's pretty easy just to lower your hand as you suggest. 
However, it does help me from cutting past the line on the back side.


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## vikingcape

It's finally done!

Thanks Red










It's in my projects


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## JohnnyStrawberry

Great work. Beautiful front. Now, enjoy it. 
Or about a new project? ;-)


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## BigRedKnothead

I love it Kaleb. Thanks for sharing the ride with us on the forum.

I've never used waterlox. Now I'm curious how it differs from the wipe-on poly I use.


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## lightcs1776

Looks real nice, Red.


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## ShaneA

Looks good Kaleb.


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## vikingcape

The waterlox is great Red. The only reason I tried it because my cousin bought me a quart of it as a thank you for some of the help I leant him. It's virtually idiot proof (trust me I'm not the sharpest knife in the spoon drawer). It goes on easy with a rag or brush, I've heard you can spray it too. I don't have a sprayer so I can't speak to that. I used a foam brush actually, and it went on really easy. It's a good tough finish, I was surprised at how it has a great fiim like poly, but the finish is mirror smooth

Johnny, I don't think the projects ever stop, that's the fun part. Thanks for the comments

Shane thanks


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## BigRedKnothead

I see. I had too look Waterlox up in Flexner's finishing book. Finish manufacturers make stuff so confusing. Although it might have some tung oil in it…...it's technically a wiping varnish.

I make my own wiping varnish by thinning minwax poly. Wonder how it compares to waterlox? Might have to try it someday.


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## Pezking7p

Kaleb that case looks amazing. Love the ambrosia maple, I just did a huge picture frame with some abrosia maple and I'm still deciding how to finish it.

I did my pine floors in waterlox. I'm extremely pleased with the look. I've also seen some walnut finished in waterlox that really looks nice.


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## lightcs1776

Just noticed the case of drawers is made by Kaleb (that's what I get for trying to multitask), so nice work Kaleb. It came out looking great.


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## john2005

Thats lookin pretty sweet there Kaleb. Nice job, especially on all the dts


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## Hammerthumb

Great looking chest Kaleb! Especially like the pulls. Well done.


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## BigRedKnothead

Well, here's another tidbit. I just post this crud as I come across it…..hoping it helps someone.

The ability to read wood grain direction will save you a lot of headaches in furniture making. Whether working with power or hand tools, if your working against the grain, you'll get tearout. With hand planes, it's mandatory.

Now, oak….can be tricky. The only thing I've ever seen in books about reading grain was to look at the edge of the board. For example with this board, the grain is running upward, right to left, and turning back down. You would plane this from the right, most of the board, then turn around and plane it from the left where it switches directions…...









Well, I've had several oak boards that defied this theory. They mocked me and called me freckle face. 
And there's no rhyme or reason to the arches of grain in oak, so ignore those.

The one this that never lies concerning the grain direction is the pores. And oak has big pores for everyone to see.









See the pores here. They look like tiny holes drilled at an extreme angle. You would plane this left to right. Easy peasy Japanesy.

I'm having a lot of success with my smoothing skills on this blanket chest. I'm committed to build this one without the use of sandpaper.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

What do you see there Red? A bit of angle down that isn't real obvious in the photo?


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## BigRedKnothead

It is hard to see in a photo. If you look closely at a piece of oak in person, you'll see what I'm talking about.

I'm only able to find end grain pictures of oak pores on the web. But look at this pic. Those pores have to come up through the face grain at an angle. The angle they come through will tell you the grain direction.


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## john2005

Dang Red, the macro on your camera is amazing!


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## TopamaxSurvivor

Thanks, that is what I supposed it would be.


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## BigRedKnothead

John that end grain closeup is from the web. Cool pic though.

Here's a better one Topamax. Your lookin right up the tunnel of the pores. See how they go downward while upward:










Other woods are the same. I can just see the pores easier on oak and walnut. It was a big eureka moment. 
It's ok if you guys think I'm a nutjob;-)


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## john2005

I figured, but just couldn't let it slide.


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## NinjaAssassin

I think I'll need to read a book or two, watch some videos and maybe talk to the couple of people at work that have shops. I'm pretty lost right now. I assume that's because I'm new to this.


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## ShaneA

"See how they go downward while upward" ?

You been in the egg nog again Red?


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## CFrye

So you are saying to plane down the tubes or up the tubes Red?


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## BigRedKnothead

Lol. I'm realizing this is tough to explain on the interwebs….or I'm just not do a very good job.

"Downward while upward" meaning the pores go downward while traveling up in the last pic. And yes I have had some eggnog;-)

Candy- plane in the direction the pores are coming up out of the wood. So downward in that pic.

Billy- There is a lot to learn. I still have the feeling like when I graduated from college; I thought I would feel like I knew something by now, but I've barely chipped off the iceberg. 
It's the journey. The attaining of the knowledge that's the fun part. This place is a good start to learn. But ya, I'd hit the library next. Just don't use my card. It's got a bunch of overdue fees.


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## NinjaAssassin

Red, yeah I knew there was a lot to learn when I started this. I'm constantly surprised to learn what comprises all of those things, though. My local library is…how should I put this…crap. I'll check it out but I'm not confident they've got anything meaningful there. Is there a book (or several) you'd recommend? I've been contemplating buying the book "Understanding Wood" but haven't pulled the trigger yet.

thank man


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## JADobson

Ninja, my library can do inter-library loans. If yours can too then you can ask them to get almost anything and they'll bring it in for you.


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## NinjaAssassin

Ah, loans…I forgot about those. Thanks JADobson. I've forgotten how libraries work since the advent of the intarwebz.


----------



## lysdexic

Confucius say: The eye can not see what the mind does not know.

I get what your saying Red but you just can't make out which way the pore/tube is descending in your picture above.

Billy - I have that book and, while it is very informative, it quickly goes deep into the physiology and cellular biology of trees. Reads like a textbook. It is a great reference but I'd suggest you put your money elsewhere for now.

Regardless, you might want to check this out.


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## NinjaAssassin

Thanks mang!


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## BigRedKnothead

Billy- Ya, I suggest the library because it's nice to check the books out first. I have a lot of books I wouldn't have bought if I could have flipped through them first. Just to help, here's a few I reference often:

1. Hand Tool Essentials- Pop. woodworking
2. Understanding Wood Finishing- Flexner….get the new edition
3. The New Traditional woodworker- Tolpin
4 Building Furniture- FWW 
5. Any of Chris Schwarz's stuff. Lost Art Press

They're mostly hand tool oriented. I already knew how to run power tools. And I know there's a lot of other great books out there….but they all cost money;-) I buy used copies when I can.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Thanks Red. I get books new when other people buy them (Christmas or birthday gifts). Otherwise, like you, I buy used copies. I'm after the information and so long as the book is in serviceable condition, I'll buy used for less. My focus is with hand tools right now (I'm feeling like that may be my primary way of doing this hobby - it's a lot of fun and really helps me slow down and focus on what I'm doing instead of rushing through stuff) so those books are right up my alley. A few of those have been on my wish list for a little while now, along with some of the books found on Lost Art Press.

Thanks again.


----------



## Texcaster

Our Queensland library has inter branch lending but will order in a book if it's not in the system. I'm waiting on a new Johnny Cash biography.


----------



## chrisstef

Here's a great visual for reading grain direction.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/WM_Grain_Direction.pdf


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## BigRedKnothead

Johnny Cash biography….I'd be up for that. Fav Cash quote:

"There is a spiritual side to me that goes real deep, but I confess right up front that I'm the biggest sinner of them all."

Billy- ya I knew were gettin into hand planes and such, so I thought those might help.

I've got some dry fit panels….


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## Texcaster

Nice work Red. Heaps of ambience in your shop.


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## john2005

Lookin good Red!


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## CL810

Thanks for the link *Stef* - good article.


----------



## jmartel

Boom goes the dynamite.

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/93273


----------



## Pezking7p

Red, I'm always impressed by your shop. Sometimes I feel like the ultimate goal of this hobby is to make your shop as nice as you can.

I've got my giant assembly table done. I should have made it about half size, but I think I'm really going to appreciate the size when it comes time to start putting cabinets together. Plus it has tons of storage, which I badly need.


----------



## NinjaAssassin

Thanks for the link chris.

jmartel, nice table!


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## CL810

*Pez*, you know the rules: pics or it hasn't happened.


----------



## Pezking7p

haha, sorry I figured my crappy shop furniture is off limits. This is basically straight from the wood whisperer's torsion box assembly table, except I modified the height to match my table saw, and I added casters. I didn't add the 2nd set of drawers because I wasn't sure how accessible they would be for general shop use.

(Ummm, it looks like photobucket photos aren't working great, any advice?)
(EDIT: Figured it out)


----------



## CL810

Nice!


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

*(Ummm, it looks like photobucket photos aren't working great, any advice?)*

Yup, forget Photobucket. Click the "img" box on the top of the posting box you are typing in to post. Find you photo to insert.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

chrisstef, Thanks for that grain reading link. Very good, Now if I can remember 1/2 of it ;-)


----------



## vikingcape

That is a great out feed table. With the torsion box it should be nice and level


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That was a good article Stef. Probably better than my "reading the pores" crap;-)

Pez- Great pics. That IS a nice outfeed table. Should stay nice and flat. My current outfeed top is doubled birch ply and it hasn't stayed as flat as I'd like.

Thanks for the kinds words on my shop. It's really just come into fruition this past year. Been meaning to make a blog about it. It started with building my roubo about this time last year. Then I proceeded to rework my entire shop, building and selling furniture along the way to fund it.

You can see progression of the old dungeon(and old outfeed table) in these pics. 


















Looks little better now ehh?


----------



## Pezking7p

It's come a long way!

Completely took over the garage, eh? Do you ever wonder what you'll do if you have to move all your tools to a new house?

Is the UP a pretty small world? My neighbor in IA used to work for the railroad. You kind of look like you could be one of his kids, come to think of it, but not the right age I don't think.


----------



## JohnnyStrawberry

Great assembly table, Pez. Right now I have to think about that… I have decided to move on by the end of January. Not sure where though… I think I'll buy a garage. I'm fed up to the back teeth with renting….................................
I've made a heavy duty cart that can bear the weight of the jointer too with no problem. I'll post pics, CL810. LOL I'm already using it a lot for the kitchen project.


----------



## chrisstef

I keep that article I posted open in my phones browser so I can go back and forth reading it because like you Topa, I don't remember half of what I read either. I really enjoy working with hand planes but I do get frustrated by tear out and going against the grain so that's what lead me to finding that article a few months back. Ill probably print out a copy and tack it to the shop wall right next to my plane till. Im glad you guys fouinf some good insight from it.

Red - reading those pores reminds me of reading the direction of a concrete cutting blade. I like to view them as little comets with a distinct tail being the pin head.


----------



## CFrye

Thanks Stef. I printed it and will be taking it to the shop. Thinking of a big(easy to read) quick version to post on the power planer for reference. Maybe a hand plane version for the plane till (when it gets built…).


----------



## jmartel

I really need to tune up my hand planes and get a scrub plane. Now that I'm doing larger flat work, I can't fit some stuff through my planer.


----------



## waho6o9

Good idea Jmartel. Do you have winding sticks?

I should make some winding sticks as they purposeful.

I found this one on bing images and made by lysdexic from LJ's, LOL.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Stef, that grain direction article really puts some pieces together in my mind. Some of that stuff I learned the hard way, but there's always more to learn.

Pez- Ya, little painting and lighting made the biggest difference. We're not going anywhere for a while, but I think I'll be hiring that "two men and a truck" outfit if I ever have to move my bench more than 10 ft. That thing is silly heavy. 
I'm a first generation railroader. UP's got something like 45k employees. I only know the conductors and engineers in this area. Some of them more than I'd like;-)

Another day on-call for my crazy job. I was out in the shop by 5am. I'd love to take this blanket chest to my in-laws for Christmas, but that would be rushing it. No need for that.


----------



## WhoMe

I have a gluing question. I have heard it is difficult to glue purpleheart. And that normal PVA glues don't work well. 
Anyone have any suggestions on a better glue to use. I was thinking of a CA glue instead of epoxy. Im not brave enough to try gorilla glue. I have heard that is difficult to use anyway and Im reluctant to do a first time use on the project I'm working on.


----------



## renners

Last two little curved panel edge moldings done. They have to match the straight ones I already made.

I don't have one of those fancy pants machines that does curved work for you, so it's precision cutting templates that can be used on the router table like a shaper, and a case of building it up in pieces










All the straight moldings were simple enough, 1 1/2×3/4 blanks, took a 5/8 cove out first, then the bead leaving very little cleaning up.










But I wasn't confident of feeding the arcs through the 3/4 bead cutter on edge, so I cut that shape flat and used a 3/8 roundover on each side (no pic of that)


















Little rebate allows a bit of wiggle room when putting them together










everyone should have digital calipers…










DAMN YOU SQUEEZE OUT!










add a pinch of shavings…










wipe off glue pushing shavings into mess with a finger…










et voila!

Did my first table saw cove cut as well yesterday after watching Mark Spagnello's video here on LJ's (the woodwhisperer)










Turned out really well, I was reluctant to try in case I toasted another motor in my weedy saw, but it was no problem at all. Good bit of sanding though, I have one arm like Pop-Eye now.


----------



## lysdexic

TLFKAR,

That is what they call "git er dun."

Nice work.


----------



## vikingcape

Great job Renners. That looks like some beautiful moldings. How are you finishing it?

Whome: I just glued bubinga and it has the same oily properties as purpleheart. I wiped it with denatured alcohol first and it seemed to do the trick. Hope that helps


----------



## Hammerthumb

I like the torsion box outfeed Pez. Lots of room on that table. Wish I had room for something like that. My outfeed is a set of rollers that can be folded down. Otherwise I would not be able to close my garage door.










By the way Red, how big is your shop? It seems as yours is a lot larger than my 2 car garage. Wish I had another 2-300sqft.

WhoMe - I use Gorilla urethane a lot for laminating and prefer it for oily species. It makes an invisible glue line, but also is very messy and takes longer to dry than PVA. Once dry, just scrape off the squeeze out. I would not try it on MT or any joinery for that matter.

renners - looking good! Know what you mean about the bead cutter on an arc. Might have been a big suprise. Good choice on the roundovers. Suprises me that you are getting that done without a shaper. Mind (and router) over matter.


----------



## renners

Kaleb, How am I finishing it? Still not 100% sure, It has to be done in situ once it's all glued up and sanded.

Before I even started drawing this up I tried a sample board that I had lying around.

I know from past experience that anything with oil in it will take aeons to dry on teak, so I was thinking shellac to seal, then poly. What I did have on a shelf was some blond shellac sanding sealer which I applied, thinking, 'great, this is what all those LJ's over the pond use', but to my dismay, it remained tacky for about 3 days.

So then I tried some acrylic sanding sealer, which was bone dry in 20 minutes. I am still waiting for the special order teak veneered mdf to come in before I do anything because there's a possibility I'll have to match the colour of the timber to the mdf, in which case I'll add some coloured acrylic varnish to the sanding sealer, then clear coat with a w/b lacquer with a foam brush.

Paul, there is a shaper in my future workshop, but for the present, I have to rely on my DW625 router and some big ass scary cutters - the 1" cove weighs in at a hefty 14oz, I treat that one with the utmost respect.


----------



## WhoMe

Renners, if your shellac is more than 1 1/2+ years old, it is hitting its shelf life limit. At least that has been my experience. I had some old shellac and it took a long time to dry. Then I used some newer stuff and it dried, no problem. I had read the same thing in a magazine too.


----------



## renners

Hmmm, interesting Mike. Judging by the dust and cobwebs on that shellac SS, I'd say it's past it's use by date by a couple of years, so what do you reckon, Zinsser Sealcoat and poly?

Maybe I should pm Clint Searl nyuk, nyuk.


----------



## WhoMe

Hmmm, sounds like it may be past it's prime….lol
I know I have extended my old stuff a little by thinning it with alcohol but I'm pushing my luck now. about time to throw it away. 
As for finishing teak. Sorry, have no clue. My only experience is on sailboats when I occasionally visit one…

Thanks guys on the purple heart gluing. Ill have to experiment a little on some scraps then. Will try the wipe down first. Other than that, any other recommendations? I'm still reluctant to try Gorilla glue but am more open to a version of CA. Anyone have CA experience? It is for a craft piece by the way. No furniture type work.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Renners- Thanks for sharing that stuff man. I need to learn to make diagrams like that. Very helpful.

Paul- I think my garage/shop is like 24×22 ft. It's definitely bigger the average two car garage. The wall that leads to the house is moved back 4 or 5 ft. Makes for a smaller basement….fine by me. One of the reasons I wanted the house;-)

Actually, got around to blogging about my shop today. Part 1 anyway. For anyone interested:
Red's shop blog.


----------



## ScomelBasses

Re gluing purpleheart. I've never had a problem with delamination when gluing purpleheart using regular wood glue like titebond. I don't find purpleheart to be particularly oily, especially when compared to something like cocobola.


----------



## ShaneA

^ I agree with no problems gluing purpleheart with Titebond. Seems to glue up like most other woods. Never considered it oily before.


----------



## Iguana

Hammerthumb - doesn't matter how big your shop is. You'll always want another 2-300 sq.ft.


----------



## jmartel

Lucky you, red. My Townhouse has almost the biggest garage in Seattle in my price range (which wasn't super low for the market, mind you), and it's only a 16.25×18.75' with low ceilings.

Every other house/townhouse we looked at was 9×18.


----------



## JohnnyStrawberry

http://lumberjocks.com/mnpete/blog/38891
Anyone interested? ;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jmart- come on out to the midwest. You could probably buy an acreage with a detached shop for what you paid for that townhouse;-)

Johnny- Pursuing the dream of woodworking full-time? I think every hobbyist kicks that idea around. I like to think I could pull it off, but I know it's just not in the cards for me. Oh well.


----------



## Pezking7p

Red, no doubt. In Massachusetts (I lived there for 3 years) you could get a starter house for $400k. NC I got 2 houses and 2.5 acres for less than a third of that. Also have my shop on the property, but I had to put a floor in it and re-wire.


----------



## bondogaposis

Let's talk dovetails. Here is an example of several new to me techniques that I tried on the Lost Stickley Table that I am building right now.










Hand cut half blind dovetails on a slanted drawer front, right? Wrong. First they are not half blind, I made the drawer front the same thickness as the sides, 1/2". Then I made full through cut dovetails and afterward glued a piece of 1/4" stock to the front of the drawer. I think for most of us that cut dovetails feel that through dovetails are easier, that is certainly the case for me. I also didn't cut these by hand as I usually do, I used the bandsaw. I used Glen Huey's technique of doing them on the bandsaw. It just requires the construction of one simple jig for cutting the pins. Here it is.


















It is just a wedge made to a 1:8 slope. You cut one side of each pin then reverse the jig in the bandsaw and do the other side of each pin. I also made the pins first, normally I do tails first, but in this instance I wanted the look of those skinny little pins. I think they are called London pins or some such. It would be next to impossible to mark the pin board from the tail board as there is not enough room between the tails to fit a pencil or much of anything. So I made the pins first and then used the pins to mark the tails. I like the look and the speed of making them on the bandsaw. This was a trial for me, but I think I will be doing my dovetails this way into the future. Fast, accurate, what's not to like?


----------



## vikingcape

Bondo that looks like a really cool jig. If you didn't tell me I would've definitely thought that that was a halfblind. I could see how that would cut them quickly. I don't have a good bandsaw, (mine is a little three wheel 10 inch…...sigh does ok I guess). I would try that if I had a bigger one. I would never consider myself a hand tool only type of guy, I like running my table saw and router too much to say that. But I like cutting dovetails by hand


----------



## jmartel

Red, definitely. I paid $400k for my 3bd/3.5ba 1600 sq ft townhouse. I could have bought an old '40's or older era house for the same price, but this was a 2008, bigger than all the other houses, had a bigger garage, and just plain wasn't going to need anything.

I could have certainly gotten a decent house if I moved outside city limits, but I wasn't willing to commute that far. Plus, we would need 2 cars instead of the 1 plus motorcycle. My commute is 25 min, and my wife rides her bicycle to work.

I could move to the midwest but a) I wouldn't have a job since I work on ships, and b) I'd have to live in the midwest.


----------



## Pezking7p

I always wanted to live in one of those fancy floating houses in Seattle that I see on TV. Lots of cool possibilities.


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## BigRedKnothead

Bondo- I admit, it wasn't too long ago when I thought the only way to make dovetails was either by hand, or with a router jig. People have come up with just about every way to make that joint it seems. Yours is clever. 
I still have my mind set on learning to make them decent by hand. However, if I've gotta bust out 20 drawers some day, I might get creative.

Jmart- You just keep busting on the midwest all you want. Just remember I get walnut and white oak for $2 bd/ft. And 400K would buy you an acreage with a shop the size of your townhouse around here;-)
Only boats to work on would be the casino boats though.


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## bondogaposis

BRK, The bandsaw method has it's limitations it will only work on pieces that are narrower than the size of your bandsaw. My bandsaw is 14" so that leaves out big carcases for dressers and tool chests and such. For drawers though it works great. You still have to do the layout just like hand cutting and if you make true half blinds then only the pin board can be made on the bandsaw. I look at it as a supplement to making them by hand. I got kind of excited about it because it is a new technique to me and it is always fun to learn something new in the shop.


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## dbray45

My take on dovetails - I like to make them by hand.

If you are going to do dovetails, learn to do them by hand so that you learn how the whole thing works. Get that right and then evolve from there. Getting them right first is what matters.


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## jehu

A furniture building forum sounds good.


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## jmartel

BigRed: I joke in jest. You guys have some nice people and cheap living out there. I'm more of a coastal guy, but really didn't care for the east coast. I work on ships, tugboats, and fishing vessels so there's limited areas of the country I can work in. I like big mountains as well, so that essentially limits me to Seattle, and maybe Alaska if I could get one of the few jobs in my field up there.

Pezking: Those floating houses are super expensive, and quite small. Plus, you don't buy a slip, you have to lease it.

Here's a few from kayaking:


















And an awesome boat that I figured you guys would appreciate due to the woodwork on the outside. I believe the darker wood was ribbon striped sapele, but I didn't get close enough to see:


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## chrisstef

Dude, Jmart, you go kayaking by my boat and don't even say whats up? Not very dude like.


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## mds2

Hey lumberjock furniture builders, i'm building a thing.































































A hope chest for a friends daughter. I havent done much, if any, panel in frame construction. Everything is going really good except for the lid. I think the glue froze will while it was gluing up, so now I have a white line along every glue joint on the top. Anyone run into this before? any advise?


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## JohnO1955

Glad to find this forum - currently I am building furniture for clients from Custom Made.com - A lot of work building one-off designs but I am learning a ton!

Once I figure out how to get images up here I will pass some along

Or if you are curious - go to custommade.com


----------



## pintodeluxe

MDS, 
Yes, glue will turn white if it is below 45 degrees. What brand of glue do you use? I like TB II best. TB III claims a colder gluing range than most, but it hasn't been enough to sway me from 'ol reliable TBII. 
I have been making little tents in the shop with a dropcloth and portable heater. That way I don't have to heat the whole shop up if I'm just doing a glueup. 
I like the chest you are making, looking really good so far.


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## mds2

I use TB III pretty much exclusively. I had my shop up to 80 degrees when I glued it up, but then it cooled way down overnight, to about Zero or so. Is there anything I can do? So far im thinking rip it apart at each joint and re-glue.


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## vikingcape

I keep my glue right inside the door to the house off to the side in the winter. That way when i need it I just pull it in the garage for the glue up. I have used the titebond II for a while now, but I recently used titebond hide glue, that stuff leaves no cleanup if you are careful. I love it


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## renners

If the glue has chalked, you'd be as well to just knock the joints apart, clean up and reglue when it's warmer. Chalked glue is as good as no glue. Torture test it first with a quick cramp set to spread to see if it will come apart, use blocks on any edges to spread the weight and prevent any dents.


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## mds2

Well crap. It did look chalky. I'll cut the top apart and re-glue. Now I'm wondering how much I should worry about the other joints…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

mds2- The chest looks great! Bummer about the glue issue. It's been butt cold 'round here. Probably better rip down your glue lines on the top. As far as the the M&T joints, maybe test them for strength by hand. Could you peg them from the inside of the chest for good measure?

Gonna start messin' with some hide glues myself. Always something to learn.

Another blog post on my shop for those interested:
http://lumberjocks.com/BigRedKnothead/blog/38938


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## widdle

mabye later Red…Busy…


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## CL810

Snap!


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## Pezking7p

Hope chest looking good. Hope the glue can be sorted out. Is that walnut and maple?


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## mds2

Walnut and cherry. I bought the plans online.


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## CL810

It's a fine looking chest mds.


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## BigRedKnothead

John Obelenus- Got a chance to check out some of your stuff. Pretty cool. Custommade.com looks like a nifty avenue to hook up furniture makers with clients. Thanks.

btw, I just now noticed our little forum was mentioned in the LJ Newsletter. I guess we're kind of a big deal now…lol


----------



## mds2

I checked the other joints by trying to pull them apart really hard and everything seemed really solid. What a relief.

For finish I am thinking BLO and then sealer and poly over the top. Should I be concerned with BLO looking blotchy on the cherry panels?


----------



## CL810

*mds*- yes, you should be concerned. A test/sample board is always a good idea but with cherry large areas can do well and then an area will get very blotchy. I think you should consider a coat of Zinser Sealcoat followed by light sanding. Test board first to get a feel for how much sanding you should do.


----------



## pintodeluxe

I have had TB III turn white more than once in fair weather. I switched back to TB II and have been quite pleased.


----------



## mds2

CL810, so sealer then oil on the cherry? Or just skip the oil on the cherry and only do a sealcoat and then poly?

I always do tests with finish first too.

As far as the top, I have some TB Transparent glue. I think I am going to try that. It sets up a lot faster than TB III.


----------



## CL810

*mds*, that would be up to personal preference. Watco's Danish Oil has oil and poly in different flavors. I would use the Sealcoat first in any case. Be sure you're using Zinsser's Sealcoat that is sometimes referred to as a sanding sealer. It is DEWAXED 1 lb. cut shellac. If you use the wrong Zinsser product it will be waxed shellac and you are not suppose to put poly on top of that.

Test away.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

+1 on the danish oil. I like using the natural danish oil on cherry and walnut. That stuff really gives it some depth. And it cures faster than BLO. You can varnish/poly over it after 72 hours.

That's the finish I used on my cherry dining set:


----------



## CL810

*mds*, I just reread my post and realized one comment wasn't real clear. Watco's Danish Oil has oil and poly in it. It comes in a number of tints such as the natural which is great on cherry as Red indicated. With that product you eliminate the oil step because it's two in one. Also, the Sealcoat will affect the ability of the oil to soak into the wood. Sooo, how much you sand the sealcoat will also be a factor. More sanding allow for more absorption of the oil; less sanding, less absorption.


----------



## mds2

Thanks for the tips, I'll pick up some Danish oil.


----------



## rlrobinhood

This is a really cool thread, but it has lost its value (too much info crammed into one thread). Why not a furniture makers forum?


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## BigRedKnothead

^That's been brought up before. I didn't totally realize this was under the "woodworking skill share" forum when I made it. Sorry if you don't like the forums that go on for a while sharing our progress and epiphanies…..but some of us do.

mds2- I know finishes can get darn confusing. The manufacturers make it that way. What is danish oil anyway. Is that what you get when you squeeze a pastry hard enough? LOL. That's why I suggest Flexner's books so much. He demystifies most of it.

"I got kind of excited about it because it is a new technique to me and it is always fun to learn something new in the shop."

*Bondo*....I know just what you mean. It's a great feeling.


----------



## renners

The best advice anyone could give you regarding a new finish is try it on a scrap piece first. I like Danish Oil on pine but find it darkens hardwoods just a bit too much for my liking (although then again, maybe that tin of DO is past it's use by date too).
Also, spread DO rags out flat in case they spontaneously combust. I'd love it Mythbusters did an episode on that.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I keep one pipe clamp the full 10 ft for days like this. Luckily the friction fit/tackiness of the glue held on these joints after a good squeeze. I have been known to pin large glueup M&Ts with dowels if needed. 








Where would I be without my shop elves?


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## theoldfart

Just be careful you don't leave one in the work, client might not give her back, too cute! Must take after her mother. :0)>


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## lightcs1776

You are certainly blessed with precious elves. Great seeing your furniture projects.


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## renners

Double disappointment at the timber merchants yesterday. My special order veneered mdf turned up - pale, insipid, ribbon cut both sides, and I was hoping for a bottle of Jameson as a thank you for my continued custom, I'll try dropping in again Christmas eve for an ounce of nails.


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## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys. That particular elf is losing her two front teeth just in time for Cwith-muth;-)

I fought the joinery a bit on my glueup yesterday. My tenons were good, but I jacked up the cheeks of my mortises with my edge smoothing. That easy to do in just a couple passes. See:










-
I'm either gonna have to check myself with a square more often…..or get an edge plane. Shame stanley stopped making the no. 95. But LN makes one. Mmmmm:








-
Maybe with the money from this build.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

Red, Why would you be edge smoothing? didn't you joint the board?


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## BigRedKnothead

Well, I jointed them with a power jointer. So they still had the ugly machine ripples.

Edge jointing can be tricky to keep square, but it's definitely one instance where hand planes are much more efficient than sanding.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

Thanks Red, I doubt if I live long enough to learn a new trade ;-)


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## BigRedKnothead

I hear ya brother. I've come a long ways, and I still feel like I've only chipped a chunk off the iceberg.

Tried Frank Klausz's dovetail method today; mostly freehand, pins first, saw inside the pencil line. They're nice and snug. Little too snug. It takes a real pro to split out both ends;-)


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## Pezking7p

You know, you don't HAVE to put it together if it's that snug  Still looks tight, just needed a little trimming. Looks like maybe the angle on that half tail wasn't quite right.

I've been drawing cabinets alllllll day. I feel like I may never get to actually building the damn things. There's so much crap I have to look up for measurements and standard sizes.


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## lightcs1776

Red, dovetails look great. I had my first attempt at them this weekend and will cutting off the pins and starting over again. I clearly have a lot more reading to do in order to learn the basics. I enjoy seeing your work. It gives me something to work toward.


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## widdle

Those loog good..What are Frank Klausz's technique's ? other than pins first ..


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## BigRedKnothead

Pez- Ya, I don't need to just bang way. However, softer woods like poplar will compress. Since I'm just practicing, I'm testing to see what I can get away with.

Chris- Atta boy. Tails first seemed easier for me to start. But after today, I might have to try some more pins first.

Greg- That's pretty much it. Baseline with a marking gauge. Then just marks the pins on the end grain, no saw line down. Saw freehand as straight down as you can. 
He chops all his waste(I still used a coping saw before chiseling. I'm pretty good with one of those.) Then transfer the pins with a pencil line on the tail board. 
Make sure to saw on the waste side of the line. If you succeed, they'll be snug. I've been using a card scraper with some psa sandpaper to touch up tails. Should have done that today.

This method is highly dependent on how straight of a sawyer you are. It's in this book:


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## widdle

That makes sense..i have'nt been penciling the verical lines either lately..My saw does'nt follow them anyway.I do like to pare a little of the saw kerfs off the tails before scribing the pins..


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## BigRedKnothead

Well shoot. Here's an old school video of ol' Klauszy:

Dovetailin'

Man he's fast. He's says to split the line in the vid. The book says waste side. Either way.

Ya, I'll be skippin the downward lines from now on. Already looking to trim time off the process.


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## widdle

All these superfast pro dovtail vids seem kinda bunk..Unless you work in some pine unfinished furniture shop and your dovetailing 2 hrs a day 3 times a week.. even if you got really good at it..When you got a custom piece with some curly maple and cocobolo are you gonna eyeball it..


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## widdle

No disrespect to Frank Klausz or any of the other pro's..it just seems like all the videos are pretty similar and they can one time it…i just dont think that when they have been working on something for weeks or months..My guess they slow way down…


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## lightcs1776

Red, that makes it real clear … that I don't have a clue what I am doing with the pins. I've got a lot of work ahead of me. I have the tails down so they are ok, not good, just ok. I'll have to find a good, slow, example on how to cut the pins, as Widdle mentioned.


----------



## Airframer

OK on the subject of fast dovetailing.. This video of Rob Cosman has me stumped. He is either cutting balsa wood or his saw is that damn good. One stroke tails!


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## BigRedKnothead

^haha. I think that's the sort of video widdle is talking about. I tried that with my dt saw for goofs. If I get it started ok, it's possible. But you have to give excessive downward pressure….and forget about accuracy.

Widdle- your right. Pros who do it everyday will certainly be working at a different speed. Not sure who they're trying to impress with the speed. 
A balance must be found. I'd like to pick it up from my current pace. But if I'm working on the real deal (a drawer front I can't screw up), I'm sure I'll take my time.


----------



## CL810

The reason they can get away not drawing lines is because it's the first cuts. Whether you cut pins or tails first the cuts that determine the fit are the second cuts which you mark off the first cuts (assuming all cuts are made square to the board's face for tails and square to the end grain edge for pins.) Soooo, since they have really good sawing skills they are making first cuts that look good.

Then, the cuts that matter have lines.


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## dawsonbob

Thanks, Airframer. Now as soon as I pick my jaw up off the deck I'm going to have to throw away my dozuki and my chisels, and take up knitting: I now know that I'm not worthy of touching wood. See what you've caused.
That was amazing.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

Rob's saw is probably that good and he is good with it. An old time carpenter once told me 2 strokes to cut a 2×4. I've seen framers driving a 16d in 2 wacks including starting it.


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## widdle

I like to have one of Reditos chisels and grind it up like mr cosman's


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## BigRedKnothead

I have not doubt he's good. But these videos are a little silly. He's out of breath at the end of this one…lol

3 1/2 min dovetail

Gotta slow down and enjoy your work a little.


----------



## widdle

How about a little round robin dovetail tournament..


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

I'd be out of breath after a good race too! ;-)) Looks like we don't really need those 1:6 and 1:8 dovetail markers that show up on projects every now and then, do we?


----------



## BentheViking

I remember reading the first few posts when this forum was started a few months ago, but have mostly ignored it as it grew way too much too quickly for me to keep up with, but I'm thinking I'm going to try and follow along a little more now.


----------



## widdle

Topamax..I like those dovetail markers..I glue up about two feet worth and cut them up as needed..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, there's so many ways to go about dovetails even when your just talking about hand cutting them. It's just cool to see other approaches and find what you like. Hence my dovetail a day thing.

Topa- I still think I'll use my DT markers to mark the slope. That only takes 10sec. The dovetails Klausz made in my book vary in slope and spacing. My OCD wouldn't go for that. But then again, I'm not doing this for a living.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

I like them too. I doubt I ever get good enough to cut quality dovetails without marking, but after bending lots of conduit without marking, I have no doubt a pro can do what they are showing in those videos. I saw an interview a long time ago, probably Roy Underhill, showing a fellow doing it fast without marks. He kept saying, "In the production shop, we …(do this, no time for that) ....."


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Definitely a different ball game going for perfection and going for Long Yankee Green ;-))


----------



## widdle

yeah topamax i remember workin on the tracks in my early twenties and my boss just wanted us to eyeball gable studs..no squares…

i dont take chances


----------



## jmartel

I've gotten around the dovetail issue by not using dovetails. I suck at them. I need to practice more. Perhaps once I am in between projects for a bit I can knock a bunch out.

I think I'll be able to update in this thread with another finished project by the end of next weekend. Just doing the finishing work now.


----------



## dawsonbob

I'm brand new to woodworking. As a matter of fact, I'll be gluing up my first project tomorrow. Since I wanted to put some drawers that required dovetails in, I read all I could about cutting dovetails, and even watched some videos: seemed like it would be relatively easy. Well, it was pretty easy… to do them wrong. My next project will have five little drawers, and a lot more dovetails. I'll keep at it till I master the little buggers (they're actually kinda fun).
Thanks for this thread, and please keep it rolling - I'm learning a lot!


----------



## widdle

mini moxon..comes in handy sometimes..


----------



## CL810

*Widdle* that's clever how your mini Moxon doubles as a paring jig. DTs got so much easier and faster when I started using a coping saw and paring jig.

Does the board vibrate much when you're sawing?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya guys I avoided them for years by just using a locking rabbet or some other joint. Like Jmart, instead of crankin out furniture, I have to make the time.

dawson- Bravo for starting DT right off the bat. Show us some progress down the road.

Widarina- Thanks for showing your DT process. I snap some of mine today. Show you how Rojo Loco does it.


----------



## renners

I'll have to remember that one Widdle, pure genius.


----------



## CFrye

What is a paring jig? Please keep in mind I have a hard time remembering which parts are pins and which are tails 
:-/ I did get some poplar boards and practiced cutting lines as suggested by CL810. Then I wimped out and went to a finger joint. Got a L O N G way to go. 









Wood pictured is pine.


----------



## lj61673

If you guys are interested, check out a guy named David Barron. He's from England and he cuts some awesome dovetails. You can find him on YouTube.

He works at a nice relaxed pace and explains everything careful. He also covers the important items that make the difference between an ok dovetail and a great one. He sells some dovetail aids as well but very low key.

Definitely worth a look.


----------



## lightcs1776

Thanks for the tip, LJ. I will definitely check out the video.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

A bit of my ever-changing dovetail method. 
Tails first today…with big fat pins. I like using a coping saw. I try to saw as close as I can to the baseline. Sometimes I can get away just paring the little bit left. I saw the first swoop with one hand(middle). Then use both hand to get the second cut going(left).








-
-
I don't using a paring jig…yet. That's not were I have issues. I try to chop/pare angled in a bit. It doesn't seem like its a bit deal if there's a tiny recess in the middle of the socket. As long as you don't go past the baseline on the outside. Need room for glue right?;-)








-
-
I can't decide if I like using a marking knife or pencil to transfer. I used a pencil today. If you do this, you need to cut on the waste side of the line. 








-
-
I didn't do a great job sawing on the waste side of the line, so it turned out mediocre today. 









Edit: Wow! Like four of us were posting at the same time.


----------



## lightcs1776

Nice instructional, Red. The pictures really help me a lot as I see where I went wrong this weekend. I'm determined to learn them by hand before I learn them by router.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

lj61673- Thanks for the David Barron reminder. HE's the one who used the magnetic guide I was referring to earlier:

Barron Dovetail video

Feels a bit like cheating. But it sure looks slick. 
Btw, he does the freehand paring with an undercut like I do.


----------



## CL810

*Candy*, look at the last pic in Widdle's post #804. The cross board that is clamped down is even with the baseline of the, in this case, pin board. This jig protects the base of the board. When you are chiseling out the risk is pressure from the chisel will cause impressions/dents/gaps in the baseline. Having the jig allows you to be a bit more aggressive. Also, using the coping saw removes most of the waste which makes it easier for the chisel to cut through the remaining waste which also protects the base.


----------



## vikingcape

I have t tracks on my bench which I use to clamp a straight board across the top of what I am paring. But I use a coping saw to get the waste first


----------



## CFrye

OK I see now CL810. I did something similar on the finger joint to stop the rip cut going down and guide the coping saw going across, not that you can tell in the pic. Did not know it had a name! Just thought I was cheating.


----------



## CL810

This Barron video goes into detail about his chisel techniques. A couple of interesting points. How to cleanup a pin that is too "fat" starts around the 10 minute mark. And *Red*, his joinery bench looks very similar to yours.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Ya, except he's a master….and I'm a hack….LOL.


----------



## lj61673

Also a most important chisel technique, maintaining the base line on the pin board. Critical and something most beginners do wrong.

He has a nice slow calm style, makes it easier to comprehend, at least for me.


----------



## widdle

cl810 .I think that was a posed picture. usually the material would be chucked up lower.but if i was cutting a peice that long..I would probably clamp a 2" x 6" behind it to avoid the bad vibes….

Renners..i can guarantee there is no geniousing going on in my shop.i copied that jig from other people on this site.. ..i dont always use jigs..But sometimes if my hands and mind are not having a good day…It's just another option..

cfrye. I'm not sure if paring block is a proper term, i actually was refering to the wooden layout marker…for instance, when i cut the tails for my bench..i didn't even consider freehand.. 
I'll take a few pictures in a minute


----------



## CFrye

Widdle, CL810 was referring to previous set of pics (confused me too until I read the post #). I enjoyed the David Barron vid. I sometimes have a hard time understanding those with a British accent. Not much trouble here. 
Red I hope to be able to 'hack' as well as you someday!


----------



## CL810

Here is my paring jig.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I have not posted any progress for a while on the jewelry/keepsake chest I am making for my wife. Been very busy at work. Here is a few things I can share:

In making the top, I elected to used a bit of Cherry plywood and band it with the Ipe. Never can get the perfect fit with these large miter pieces (2.5") surrounding it, so I made a 1/8" feature strip surrounding the cherry out of Bubinga, which I am using for the drawer faces. Routed out, cut the inlay pieces, and glued them in.










Plane them down close and then use a card scraper.
This is before I cut the front radius. That is why the Cherry looks like it is not centered.



















I have done this before using a strip cut from the perimeter wood pieces when I did not want a contrasting feature strip. It makes it almost seemless.

Also started the drawers. Top 4 drawers faces have been cut and curved.



















As the small drawers actually apex the curve at the center, I just angled the wood 3.5 degrees and then drew the curve. This meant that I also had to cut the sides at 41.5 degrees and 48.5 degrees. Should make the dovetailing interesting.

I have laminated the faces of the two bottom drawers (2 pieces at 3/4" to give me 1.5") as the curve adds about 5/8". I have not cut and shaped these yet. Hope to get to that tonight. I promise to post pics of the dovetailing process.


----------



## Hammerthumb

double post


----------



## widdle

Obviously freehand is ideal..But if im struggling , i cut a fat 1/16" away from the line…and clamp the jig..pare..slide over..pare..tiny bits and then its all squared up..


----------



## widdle

great looking piece hammerthumb..
clayton if you have wider shot of that ..Would be cool to see how that works..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Widsters got all kinds of tricks up his sleeve.

Paul- I like that. You have more patience with details than I do. And yes, large miters are a pain.

That Knew concepts saw David Barron uses does look slick. However it cuts slower and costs 6 times as much as my Olsen saw. I have yet to break a blade in that thing. 
Also for the freehand paring I do, I like butt chisels. Not so much handle swinging in the air. Here's the AI butt chisels I have.

And that's all I have to say about that.


----------



## CL810

*Widdle* - here you go.










I slipped in a scrap board for visual aid. The thin board with screws is just a stop. It helps keep the board from moving. 
The eye bolts let you adjust for different thicknesses and also to tighten the clamp down with the mitered dowel rods. The eyebolt in the middle can be moved to the far left for wider boards.

This next photo shows how the guide posts work that are not visible in the previous pic. They are critical to hold the clamping board in position. The eye bolts go into tee nuts and their sole purpose is tightening the clamp.










Don't know if anyone will try to make this but if you do alignment of all the holes is critical. Mark the centers for the guide rods and eye bolt holes on the clamping board. Use two small drops of glue to glue the clamping board and the base together. Let it set up for 8 - 10 minutes. Drill a centering hole thru the two boards with a very small bit. Drill the guide post holes and they must be dead straight. Next use a forstner bit to make the holes for the eye bolts on the clamping board and the tee nuts on the back side of the base. Last use a 3/8" bit to drill a hole for the eye bolt to pass through. Hopefully you were quick enough that a few raps with a hammer will break the very small glue spots.

Hindsight is every thing. I think I would use bolts and knobs instead of eye bolts and miter cut dowel rods if I were to do this again. A bit more money but I have to say that the miter cut dowel rods become a hassle.

Hope that helps.


----------



## widdle

awesome..thanks cl810. The stop and dowel are big improvements..will have to work that in..Thanks..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Andy. I could see how that would be nice if your doing a bunch of dovetailed drawers by hand and such. Nice day on the forum.

A big Lee Valley box got here today. No play time til Christmas though. Wifey gave me the look.

Lots of progress in the shop. Chest lid is glued up.









"I got to say it was a good day." Ice Cube…...lol

Now I just hope the railroad doesn't call tonight, seeing as I spend all day in my shop.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I like that paring jig CL810. I have been using a board across the end of my bench and 2 clamps. Your setup looks like a big time saver.

Nice pics Widdle. Wish my camera and photo skills were that good. Good examples in those pics.

Lookin good Big Red! Did you shake the box? Wish my wife would shop for gifts for me at LV. I expect I'll get some new socks or a shirt for Christmas.


----------



## chrisstef

I need to get back into cutting dovetails. Lots of good tutorial things being tossed out by the group today. Chest is coming along pretty nice there rojo.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys. The big breadboards on the lid will probably take me awhile.

Paul- I'm guessing it's the stuff that was on my Lee Valley wish list;-) We must be gettin' old. Not many "surprise" gifts anymore. We'd both rather get what we really want. 
I would never in a million years have picked the stuff on my wife's list. Floral pattern doc martins come to mind. And she's about as obsessed with Amy Butler as I am with Lie Nielsen;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Amy Butler???? Who dat?


----------



## widdle

for stef


----------



## widdle

any recomendations for a thin ball point pen for marking out tails on walnut and the darker woods..


----------



## CL810

Pilot Precise V5 RT blue ink.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Can you imagine the tearout Stef would cause with that bit?....lol

"Amy Butler a creative designer from the United States, specializing in fabric designs and patterns. Butler's influence on the fabric design industry in recent years has been far-reaching."

Come on Kev. Your so outta the loop. Any fashion aficionado would have recognized her fabrics on throughout my pics, (curtains and dining chairs)....snicker.

My wifey's a pretty good seamstress. She brings color to my world of tans and browns.


----------



## chrisstef

I dont do 1/4" shafts Widdle.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, remember I wear crocs. I live in jeans and flannel, chucked the corporate suit and tie crap several years ago. BTW mission does not have colors! save brown, tan and brown and tan and br……. :0)>


----------



## CL810

don't forget brown and tan.


----------



## renners

Very serviceable colour brown.
Oh Jeez, I'm beginning to sound like my Dad.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Kev- I hear ya. Despite my wife's wishes, I live in ragged v-neck t-shirts and cargo shorts.

I would never pic the fabrics or paint colors she does. But in the end, I always like it. 









About the only time we argue is when we collaborate on something. Not sure why that is.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, Been there done that. Something about two artists maybe?


----------



## widdle

I thought what she did with your cabinet doors was wonderfull


----------



## theoldfart

Ouch! zinga


----------



## Hammerthumb

That's funny Widdle!

Know what you mean Red. I tell my wife she has tie dyed taste. She still wears tie dyed tee shirts. She did use that same green wall paint you're showing there in our living room though. I guess it looks ok.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That's it. Widdle hurt my feelers. I'm gonna go sip some Templeton Rye, watch Urban Cowboy, and feel sorry for myself.


----------



## widdle

I have some iron on gold ribbon if you want to border your posters..that should make you feel better..


----------



## Pezking7p

Templeton Rye: Now available for sale in North Carolina!!! I almost fell over when I saw it at the liquor store a few weeks ago. I finished up the last of my stock about a year ago. I guess I'll go pour myself a few fingers.

So, not to derail the talk of Red's favorite designers, but I'm trying to "pop that maple" on a project. I've put some dye in my shellac, shellaced the piece, and then I'm sanding it back. I have a few questions:

Am I supposed to sand the shellac all the way off? So that all the non-figured wood is basically back to bare wood, right?

The shellac is really gumming up my sand paper. Am I doing something wrong? Do I need to change to a new piece of sandpaper when it gets a few gumballs on it?


----------



## TechRedneck

CL

Thanks for posting your paring jig. I may go ahead and add that to my moxon. An add on to a clamp on moxon!










I may take your advice and use knobs instead of the dowels.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

David Barron is definitely a lot more informative and enjoyable to watch than the 400 mph saw and chisel race!


----------



## CFrye

Agreed Topa. It's as if he actually wants to teach and not just show off! 
Sorry, can't take the green paint. I was traumatized as a child when my step mom painted the kitchen cabinets green then antiqued them. Ugh.(shudder)


----------



## dbray45

Pez - use wet sanding to sand shellac. I would use paint thinner as the "wet". If you are just cleaning it up, use alcohol and re-french polish it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^"traumatized"...lol. I let the wifey have her kitchen. The rest of the house is tan.

+1 on the David Barron Videos. Clayton made a sweet version of his roubo, if you guys haven't seen that yet.

Widdle- I would prefer Lie Nielsen bronze ribbon if you could pull that off. And you could probably get away with a big fat sharpie marking your doves, since you saw 1/4" away from the line anyway….lol. Oh zinger…

I took a PL day so I didn't have to work last night. Should lead to a couple days off. Gonna see if I can bust out this blanket chest. Hoping for some weather at least in the 40's so I can open the shop door.


----------



## lj61673

*David Barron is definitely a lot more informative and enjoyable to watch than the 400 mph saw and chisel race!*

Absolutely, and his videos are low key and not geared around the sales of his products like the carnival barker Cosman.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

I would bet his utube videos sell as many or more than the show off presentations.


----------



## ShaneA

Carnival Barker Cosman …well said. Shameless that guy.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Ya, that one had me laughing pretty good.

Pez- I was hoping somebody would chime in about your finishing issue. I've read about it, but never done it. We need an LJ *BHog* beacon. He's good with those kinds of finishes.

Flattened the lid of the blanket chest today. It's tempting to take wide stuff like this to somebody with a wide planer or drum sander. Naaa…it only took me about a 1/2 hour to flatten it, counting sharpening.










Then I made the breadboards. I use a router to make the tongue. Tablesaw to make the groove. Hand tools to tune everything. Same process on my bench blog if anyone's interested. 


























Once I get a rabbet/fillester plane, I'll be interested to see if I like using that to make the tongue.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, any side to side wiggle room on those outside pegs?


----------



## Hammerthumb

I'll try to help Pez out. Are you just using the shellac as a sealer? What is the top coat? I would pop the grain on figured woods with a waterbased or alcohol dye and then seal instead of putting the color in the sealer, but I guess you can do it the way you have it as long as you dont sand the color you want out of it. A far as the sandpaper gumming up - try less pressure and slower strokes (no comments Stef) and turn the paper often. It might still try to gum up a little, but thats just shellac. Good luck and post a pic.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yep Kev. I've been drilling them, and then elongating the hole with a a round file to allow for movement. Don't think I took a pic of that this time. Here's what it looked like on my bench.


----------



## Hammerthumb

By the way Red, nice work. How you gonna mount the lid on that?


----------



## renners

Is it stearated paper you are using Pez? Usually grey with a lightweight backing?


----------



## CL810

*Red*, do you ever hide the tongue when doing breadboards? I'm thinking of going that route next time I have breadboards on a project.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Paul- gonna use rocklers torsion hinges.

Andy- Ya, I have. Problem is the groove/mortise needs to be stopped. Thwarts my tablesaw method. And I don't have a good plunge router setup. When I did that I just drilled a long series of holes with my mortising machine. 
Some aspects of hiding the tongue are easier. For example, not having to worry about how good the tongue looks on the exposed ends. 
There was a bit dinkering to get that right:


----------



## DanKrager

I've heard but never tried because I don't use shellac (yet) that wet-or-dry paper lubed with mineral spirits will help keep the paper from gumming up on shellac. I prefer the stearated paper (e.g. 3M Tri-M-Mite) for most finish sanding, but gummy stuff will still clog it. Why is the shellac gummy? It should be hard and crisp. Is it fresh stuff or old? Cut it a bit with denatured alcohol and see if that helps. Just guessing here from my limited experience with the stuff.
DanK


----------



## Pezking7p

Lots of comments. I'm following the wood whisperers technique to pop the grain as opposed to Charles Neil's because I thought there was less chance to royally screw up the piece if the dye was in the shellac. But I've learned a few things. First, the shellac dries very quickly, within seconds, so dye penetration is minimal. I think in the future I'll be adding some alcohol to my shellac prior to use so it can level a bit better. Second, once I start sanding the shellac, lines and patterns show up and must be sanded all the way back. I'm going to try wet sanding with 220 grit this time instead of 120 and see if it helps.

My shellac is brand new. I've been letting it dry for several hours (6 to 24 hrs) prior to sanding. The sandpaper is the cheap gator stuff that goes on my ROS. I've tried it on the sander and by hand. I'm really, really inexperienced with finishing and know almost nothing., so I probably need an edumacation on sandpaper.

At this point, I'm hesitant to sand back and dye again, but I may do it because I want this to look nice, and a giant piece of figured maple is pretty dang boring if the figure doesn't show.

I'm thinking about doing straight dye (in alcohol????), sand back, then seal-a-sel, then oil based poly rubbed on maybe 3 or 4 coats. Only I don't know how to use a sanding sealer so I need to read up on that.

Colette aside, BigRed, why could you drop the breadboard end on your dado blade and do a stopped mortise. Then just undersize your tenon so it fits inside the rounded edges left by the blade? Or since it's hidden you could clean it up with a chisel and it would have to be pretty.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"could you drop the breadboard end on your dado blade and do a stopped mortise"

Ya, I think I'll pass on that….lol. 
Just seems like a lot of unnecessary risk on the tablesaw. Keep in mind I would be handling a 1×6 vertically, and the groove needs to be 1"+ to work well with 3/8" dowel. May be with a couple passes. But dropping it down on the dado blade each time…...;-/

A better way would be to use a slot cutter bit to get the long shallow groove, Then drill and/or chop the deeper mortises and get something like this:








-
-
But I guess I keep coming back to these breadboards because they're strong, I can make them efficiently, and they just look cool.


----------



## Pezking7p

I watched norm do it in one of his very first episodes, but probably not worth the risk. My 1.5 HP saw is pretty easy to bind up…other peoples saws might have a different idea if something bad happened while trying to do that.


----------



## ShaneA

Doing it with a rip or combo blade is doable, that is how I have done them in the past. Just square up the outer/inner parts of the cut. Take a couple passes. Auxiliary taller fence. I do prefer the look of the covered end. Dado blade would seem a bit sketchy


----------



## BigRedKnothead

You bring up and interesting point there Pez. My Jet hybrid TS is 1 3/4hp. In 5 years I've never had a kickback or anything of the like. I've had it bind several times. But it just stalls out and the belt squeals. 
It cuts 8/4 oak well enough if you take it slow. I don't know that I want a more powerful saw. If I bought a sawstop tomorrow, I would probably buy the 1 3/4 hp model.


----------



## widdle

i would think a router table would be ok..1/8' 1/4" at a time..Lots of passes though..How long is that tenon Redito..


----------



## widdle

never mind..sorry . i didn't scroll back.. That last pic looked like a good set up..


----------



## pintodeluxe

Red,
Since you are a hand tool guru, did you plane a spring joint on the breadboard end?
Looking really good.
Do you get any tearout hand planing the top? I just lacquered my desk top tonight, and was horrified by all the tearout I left behind after cleaning up the jointline with a Veritas low angle block plane. 
Luckily I only planed the underside of the desk top. 
Thanks


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Pinto,
I don't know about guru brother;-) I've really only gotten decent with hand planes in the past year or so. So much to learn. I used to work much like you…..just not as well as you. But the machines couldn't give me all the flexibilty and the accuracy I was looking for. Actually this joint today is a good example of where you can work some and tools in and actually save yourself a lot of time. 








Examples: 
1) I intentionally milled the groove just a bit oversized. Then I used a rabbet block plane to get the perfect fit. I can't tell you all the times I've over/undercut parts by machine. It's tough to get them to take 1/32" off evenly etc. 
2) Say I'm a hair off with this router and guide clamp setup, and the shoulders on the top and underside aren't exactly even. No biggie. I don't even fight it with the router and guide fence. I just plane a little off one of the cheeks of the breadboard.

I guess you could say I use the machines to get me pretty darn close…and I let the hand tools take it from there. I love efficiency too man. If every hand tool operation was slower and more tedious, I couldn't stick with 'em.

Anyway, off my tangent. Your questions. 
-No I don't really spring board this joint. But I do drill the holes in the tongue slightly offset, so that it kinda draw bores the breadboard snug. 
-Tearout. Just a bit. Nothing that I can't clean up with a no. 80 cabinet scraper. (A scraper like that might have worked better on the underside of your desktop. Especially if the grain went opposite directions at the jointline)

I used to get a lot of tearout…so no, it's not just you. When I glued the top, I intentionally arranged the boards so that the grain was running in the same direction. Then, it's really all about light passes with a super sharp iron. Diagonally in this case to flatten. Always working with the grain. Not gonna lie. Oak isn't easy to plane. My worst tearout issues are always with oak. Softwoods are cake. Even cherry and walnut are much easier imo.

Don't give up on hand planes my friend. They're like riding a bike. Big learning curve to start. Followed by big "Eureka" moments.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

What is a "spring joint on the breadboard end"?


----------



## lj61673

*"But I guess I keep coming back to these breadboards because they're strong, I can make them efficiently, and they just look cool."*

They do look good in that pic, but as the top expands the top tongue will protrude beyond the end and when it contracts there will be a void. The stopped breadboard ends are just as strong, but not much strength needed really as their function is to help keep the top flat and hide the end grain.

Nice job on the chest.


----------



## lj61673

*"What is a "spring joint on the breadboard end"?*

A spring joint is made when hand planning the edges of two boards to be glued up to make a larger one. After planning the two edges (simultaneously) you remove bit more material in the center of the two boards. This creates a small gap in the center when you lay the two boards edge to edge.

The force required to close this gap during glue up ensures that the ends of the two boards will be held together both with the glue and mechanically. This "spring" joint keeps the ends of the glue joint tight during expansion and contraction, for the life of the piece.


----------



## CFrye

After planning the two edges (simultaneously)

You plane the end grain of the top and the long grain of the bread board at the same time?


----------



## ShaneA

The long grain of two longer boards before edge gluing. Scoop just a slight amount from the center giving you a tight fit on the ends and a fit that requires greater clamping pressure in the center.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

We're starting to get technical up in here…(snicker).

Candy, I think he's referring to a spring joint in the traditional way it's used. For example, think of the long boards I edge glued to make the blanket chest lid. You could plane both(or just one) mating edges, and it might help during glueup. 
Now, to make the breadboard a spring joint. Once fitted, you would plane a small recess in the center of the bread board piece before driving the dowels. 
I don't do this because I work too hard to make the breadboard fit well with no gaps whatsoever. A tiny bit if draw boring assures it will stay that way to my mind.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

lj61673- I appreciate your input on the breadboard joint. As far as the strength, I was referring to the 1 1/4" tongue and 3/8" dowels that make it pretty strong. Your right, stopped breadboards are just a strong when made right. However, I have seen in magaizines where folks just make a small tongue (pic below) and simply glue in the middle. I think we'll both pass on that joint.










Now the seasonal movement of the tongue. That pic I posted was from the internet. Yes, depending on the time of the year you made it etc, that tongue could protrude. So, I stole a page from G&G when I made mine. Slightly recessed with softened corners. Out of curiosity I check them with just my finger as a gauge. And….they do move.


----------



## CFrye

Thanks, Shane and Red. I hoped I was misreading that. I can envision all kinds of catastrophes! 
Is this what you mean on drawbore?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Pretty much. This might even be a better diagram:








-
Just a tiny bit in a case like this. Not like the joint on a workbench or something. You don't want to blow out that tongue.
I was using a sanding block to taper the dowels.


----------



## dbray45

If you under cut the shoulders by a couple of thousands of an inch toward the tongue, your joint will be tight and still move. This reduces the hard pressure on the tongue while keeping things tight.


----------



## lj61673

*You plane the end grain of the top and the long grain of the bread board at the same time?*

Ooopss, sorry if I caused confusion there…long grain on the pieces for the top as explained in subsequent posts.


----------



## dbray45

Oh darn, and I thought you were a two fisted planer


----------



## lj61673

Slightly recessed with softened edges looks good too, Red

The undercutting is always a good idea for tight joints as well


----------



## CFrye

Yes, Red, much better diagram, and no clicking involved! The fleck in that top is gorgeous already! Looking forward to seeing your finish on it!
No worries lj. It's so easy, for me anyway, to misunderstand. I know typo's and thinking at the same time as typing (and not typing what you thought) happen all the time. That's what questions are for. Really get irked at the computer when it does what I TELL it to instead of what I WANT it to!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Pez - sand your seal coat lightly with 220grit. You just need to knock off any raised grain. Sanding the seal coat should be a quick process. Maybe one or two swipes with the paper. If it is a large piece, use waterbase dye as the alcohol dye will dry to quickly. I only spray alcohol.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

No worries Candy. We are getting a bit technical. Experienced joiners are enjoying it, but I'm sure we have some scratching their heads.

Hindsight. I have reservations about recommending the drawboring part to folks who have never made a breadboard and/or draw bored a joint. A lot of crap can go wrong in a hurry. Maybe keep it simple and just try to get the joint right on your first try;-)

"Oh darn, and I thought you were a two fisted planer"
You guys will probably laugh, but I have taught myself to plane with either hand. Come in handy when the grain switches directions. Figure I was able learn everything with both hands in basketball…why not woodworking.


----------



## chrisstef

Figure I was able learn everything with both hands in basketball…why not woodworking.

That jump hook is ugly no matter which hand youre using. Lookin like Dwight howard at the free throw line.

Ambidextrous planning is a good skill to have though.


----------



## dbray45

Actually, I plane with either hand, just not both at the same time.

Candy, I have done breadboard ends and have come to the conclusion that they are a pain. As a result, I just finish the end grain. If you use a router, do the end grains first and clamp cauls on each end, this eliminates tear-outs. Always do this in two passes all the way around, the first one does 99% and then do a finish cut to remove any areas that burned. Before adding any finish to the end grain, sand with 220 grit, then sand with 400. This will make the finish look nice.


----------



## mds2

I'd give my left arm to be ambidextrous.


----------



## dbray45

Wouldn't that defeat the purpose?


----------



## CFrye

Still trying to clean up the finger joint I posted earlier. Not gonna jump into bread boards or draw boring any time soon. 
Appreciate the info!


----------



## jmartel

I'm sure it's poor form, but I've started planing by holding it backwards and pulling towards me on occasion as well. Normally when my arms are tired, but it certainly helped with fatigue when flattening my benchtop.


----------



## theoldfart

Jmart, that technique is used by Schwartz and others, myself included.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Stef, I meant I could dunk on you left or right handed. Doesn't matter.

David- Edge gluing and leaving the end grain exposed is fine for tabletops and such where the apron will keep it flat. But on the lid of a blanket chest, I really think you need something to help keep it flat for the years to come. I've referenced this great article before.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/media/TabletopsFlat.pdf

I haven't tried a sliding dovetail baton. But I'd like to.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

And just in case anybody is wondering if I'm human…....I screwed up today so bad I wanted to cry. The very last step before applying finish on the blanket chest; mortising the hinges. 
I did a great job, except I put them on the front side.










-
-
Oh man I was upset when I realized. Not sure what happened. Took a break for lunch. Played with my daughter. Thought I had it on my bench the right side up. 
I can't live with it. The front of the chest has the best panels strategically placed. I've already begun a repair.


----------



## CL810

Not sure what dovetail batons are.

However, I did use a sliding dovetail to put the dust protectors on a blanket chest. Not sure how well they show up in this pic. All I will say about it is get ready by doing practice boards until it's perfect because anything less will stand out. Evidence? look at the gap that develops as you look towards the back of the chest. That was at the point of "that will have to do."


----------



## chrisstef

Red - ive got some epoxy if ya need it buddy. Seriously that kinda sucks man. Sorry to hear about the gaff, but im sure youll fix er up in no time.

Also, dunking on a guy that's all of 5'9" aint gonna come easy. Ive been known to undercut guys twice my size. Probably why I never played hoops at any level besides park and rec. Hell, I got thrown out of an intramural game before. I was kind of a douchebag when it came to competition. I don't lose well.


----------



## CL810

OH NOOOOO!!! Can't wait to see the fix - good luck man!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Sorry to hear about that Red. I think we all have made similar mistakes. How do you plan to do the repair?


----------



## 489tad

Red, been there done that. It was on a smaller scale. I built a frame/platform around the box. Ran the router around the top to get back to a level top. I doubt anyone would notice the 1/8' difference in the height of the chest. I hope this helps.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, mill it across the front to hinge depth and glue in a piece along the top edge? BTW I see what you mean about the grain on the front panels, really well done.


----------



## ShaneA

LOL, I did that on the last box I made. Many cuss words were said. Glad to see I am not the only one. Go through all the headache of placing the good panels on front, and then mortise the wrong side.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Stef- guys like you are the reason I don't play in adult leagues;-) Ya, the guys at work love to get me on there are too many knuckleheads with something to prove.

Clayton- Sorry, I think the correct name would be "dovetailed cleats". Like this but lower profiled on the under side of a lid or tabletop. Btw, I think your a much better furniture maker than you let on;-)









The repair. I just used a straight edge and a pattern router bit to drop that whole front edge 1/8". Then I found a similar grained piece to glue on. Hopefully you won't notice the little 1/8" strip. We'll see. 









If not, maybe I'll take the whole thing down an 1/8". We'll see. It's promising so far.

edit: I see some of you guys were thinkin along the same lines;-)


----------



## pintodeluxe

You will never see it. Looking good.

At least your project wasn't shot with a bullet.










Check out those ray flakes.


----------



## CL810

Dovetailed cleats look really neat - worth rememberin.

Willie do you know the story behind the bullet or was it found in the wood?


----------



## pintodeluxe

Luckily, I wasn't shot at. A had the piece of white oak around the shop for quite a while. It came from a local sawyer who I buy my lumber from. 
My son wanted to incorporate it into his desk. I put it on the back end of the desk, so it is just something he can show his friends (along with the secret compartment drawers).


----------



## vikingcape

Pinto you had me worried that you were having a really bad day at the shop until I read the second post. IF THIS JOINT DOESN'T COME TOGETHER…............... something like that


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well, the repair is all done. I had to fudge on my "quit when the kids get off the bus" rule. But those goofballs lightened up the mood in my shop anyway. That, and some Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young on the stereo.

Looks decent. I'm sure I can make it look pretty good with the stain. If it were a high dollar comission, my convictions might get the better of me. But it's just my stinkin' in-laws. They already know I'm not perfect;-)









-









"Think about how many time I have faaaallen…....and the Southern Cross."


----------



## widdle

looks good..


----------



## theoldfart

Red, torsion hinges?


----------



## widdle

nice giant box red..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Shoot, that repair contrasts more in the pics than real life. Oh well. What's done is done.

Ya Kev. It's the rockler torsion hinges. The work pretty slick. The two hinges are rated at 60 lbs. Seems to be just about right.


----------



## theoldfart

Used 'em on my grandsons toy chest. Gives one peace of mind. Had an ER nurse tell me about a little one being killed when the lid of a toy box ht the back of her head. Worth the cost to protect mmy family.


----------



## Pezking7p

I was looking at the box thinking: gosh, that's a plain design. He didn't even arch the bottom rail.

Then I remembered about your in-laws taste in furniture. Honestly I can hardly tell the fix is there. I don't think anyone who isn't a furniture maker will ever see it in a million years. But we are always our harshest critics, yah?


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, you are officially a professional now. You know, the difference between a pro and an amateur is how…
Nicely done.

DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Kev- Righty-o brother. Actually I bought an extra one to add to the chest in my living room. The lid on that is 5/4, and man is it heavy. A real finger pincher.

Pez- Yes we are. Like a lot of woodworkers, I'm a bit of a perfectionist. It's what makes me constantly strive to improve. But it's also what makes me too hard on myself. Still finding that balance.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

I'm feeling pretty good right now. Even, I, a lowly wannabe's first thought was to take it down the thickness of the mortise ;-)


----------



## CFrye

Ouch Red! Great save. 
Really nice rays on that desk Willie. What finish did you use on it?


----------



## pintodeluxe

The desk is finished with Brown Mohogany Transtint dye, followed by Varathane Dark Walnut stain and sprayed lacquer.


----------



## yuridichesky

Red, you're magician, great save!


----------



## j1212t

Take it easy, anyone who is not 20/20 in vision with a keen eye for woodwork will not notice anything. And even if he or she does, we all know that the reason we add these kind of " finishing details" (that's what i call them anyhow) is because we had an accident that needed to be covered, which is fine, it happens.

Awesome looking piece of furniture by the way. i am hoping in a few years I can produce something like that.


----------



## lj61673

Nice job on the fix, no one will ever know but you.

Those are the things that make a true craftsman, being able to adapt, to correct…problem solving. Only serves to make you a better woodworker.


----------



## jmartel

That's one of my problems, Jake. I'm 20/10 in both eyes. Mistakes are very easily seen when I make them to me…


----------



## ScomelBasses

Here's a sideboard table I just completed yesterday. More photo's and description can be found in my projects.


----------



## dbray45

That is gorgeous.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Very nice sideboard Scomel. I like the beading around the drawers.

Like your taste in music Red. Stef always remarks about these new performers that I have never even heard of. Showing my age i guess. By the way, what are the dimensions of the chest? How many elves can you fit in there?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good job on the sideboard. Looks classy.

A little lumberjock how-to for anyone who cares. If you want to use the cool little "widget" to share your project:
- just go to your project page
- in the top left there's a box that says "Embed this Project" 
- copy the web address in the box and paste it on the forum

Here's what Scomel's looks like:


Certainly not mandatory, but I was glad someone showed me.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks for all the moral support on my goof folks. This morning my wife said, "Well, now every one know it was made by a real person… and not a machine." She gets it.

I believe the "human factor" is why Stickley signed his furniture:










Als Ik Kan means "As best I can" or "To the best of my ability."


----------



## ScomelBasses

Thanks, Red. I did not know you could embed a project. Very useful!


----------



## Pezking7p

Sounds like "alls I can" as in, "well, that's alls I can do"


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sure Scomel. We used to be able to embed videos, but apparently they haven't gotten that resolved yet.

*Clayton-* There's a better example of dovetailed cleats on a chest lid in this month's issue of FWW. 
pdf here

I like that. Maybe on the next chest.


----------



## lysdexic

Good stuff here.

I question that has been rolling around in may head is that of *classic wood combinations*.

Take for instance cherry and maple. It is classic but it is easy and maybe a little feminine. Eric has used white oak and walnut with success because of its common brown tones.

Mohagany and ebony from G&G fame of course. What else? I saw a recent project with cherry and walnut and I am not sure how well it worked.

Do y'all have favorite wood combinations that just really complement each other and when do you employ them?

Pine and ?
Red Oak and ?


----------



## chrisstef

Im a huge fan of maple and walnut. I think pine and red oak are tough to marry with another species due to such distinct patterns in the grain. Its like trying to match orange with another color. Or purple if that hit too close to home Scotty.


----------



## john2005

Nice save Red! Lookin good


----------



## jmartel

Walnut and curly maple.


----------



## renners

Great job on repairing that lid Red. There will come a point when you no longer get upset about making mistakes, you'll just shrug it off and get on to fixing it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good topic Lys.

I don't mind some ebony and ivory (walnut and maple). I think it looks great on modern pieces. I've made a few for relatives with modern taste, but I don't any pics. Kinda like this though:









The first time I ever saw walnut and cherry together was at Amana Furniture:









They make that look pretty darn good.

I'd like to learn some more combinations though.


----------



## ShaneA

I think the combo thing comes down to how many shades do you want to jump. The walnut/maple combo seems pretty common, but they are at the opposite ends of the light/dark side of it. If you like them a little closer, then cherry and walnut. With more of a modern colorful twist you can have maple and purpleheart/paduak. I think walnut and oak can be nice. Not sure about cherry and oak. But who knows, it really is subjective.

Sometimes though, I think that the grain or pattern of the woods in competition can be not so great. Such as a figured wood and a QS wood. At some point, the strong grains become a bit much.


----------



## lysdexic

Agreed Shane. It is much more than just color but texture/grain as well.

My comment about cherry/maple as being feminine was not meant as disparaging.

I am intrigued by the cherry/walnut combo. It is very rich. Almost too rich.

The walnut/maple is certainly a great combo if high contrast is what you are after.


----------



## ShaneA

The thing about cherry and walnut is that they will always be constantly evolving. The cherry getting darker, the walnut getting lighter. I think that as long as the combo/pattern fits within the context of the design, go for it.

I think that the Greene bros mahogany and ebony is stunning. I typically just have to replace the ebony with walnut.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Agreed on G&G Mahogany and Ebony. I would love to do that on my bedroom set, but I'm leaning towards walnut and ebony because I can get walnut for 1/3rd the price of mahogany. 
Mmmmmm


----------



## byerbyer

Garrett Hack wrote an article for FWW about using different grains, species, figures, etc in your work to accentuate and add to the design of a piece of furniture.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/article/the-right-way-to-use-contrast.aspx


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That looks like a great article Jason. I'll have to look and see if I have that issue. Doesn't look like you can read the whole thing unless you subscribe to their darn online membership.


----------



## CFrye

Those dove tail cleats look great Red! Now I want to put that on a box I'm working on… I may need to stop coming here mid project!


----------



## DanKrager

Here is a picture of dovetailed cleats. Can you see how it's done?









This was a tall challenge the first time I did it many years ago, but now it's a breeze. With my new router mill it's even easier! You cannot see any entry points on the real thing…
DanK


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Looks impossible, but my guess it is done before glued up ;-)


----------



## DanKrager

It was a real bugger to get things lined up for a glue up accurately at first, but I've learned a trick to make it almost trivial. You got it Topa.
DanK


----------



## CL810

Don't leave us hanging Dan!


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

What do you do to keep the glue at the joints from grabbing the cleat and preventing expansion and contraction? Put a bit of wax on the dovetail?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dan….you little trickster


----------



## DanKrager

OK. Like the outdoor benches I made recently where the legs acted like dovetailed cleats, these little battens are closely fitted with the tongue on the cleat (or leg) and the groove in the plate. I discovered that the trick to perfect alignment is to dry clamp the panel with a piece of scrap in the final joint line. Then I plunge into the scrap and follow a straight edge to the stop on both ends of the cut in the plate. The slot is a bit longer than the tail (tongue) on the cleat. I did this using my "exact dado" jig. On the new router mill that becomes trivial. When the tongue fits with a snug push (not a place for the BFH) I glue the panel together (on the remaining glue line) and the cleat floats, trapped. Whatever little glue gets on it from the panel glue up is irrelevant because it's near the center of the panel. I be careful to keep the bottom of the panel joint aligned because it is difficult to dress, though a scraper has been used. 
I've wondered, but never tried, if this could be done using the wet compression trick seen in puzzles like the arrow through the apple? Then you have the issue of how to get the cutter in…
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"Whatever little glue gets on it from the panel glue up is irrelevant because it's near the center of the panel."

That's kinda what I was thinkin' Dan. Some folks even put a little glue on the middle section of breadboards. It'll still move toward the ends. I've done it both ways. Of course I don't if I think I might need to remove the breadboard one day….like on my bench.

The blanket chest is stained and has it's first coat of wipe-on poly. (3 to 1 minwax satin poly and mineral spirits). Probably a project post after Christmas.

I succeeded in omitting sandpaper til the very end. My favorite way to fill tiny defects requires a random oribital sander. I put a little gel type super glue on the crack/defect and hit it with ROS. The sanding dust makes a little slurry, fills the void and leaves it smooth. It takes stain well too. 
For a big defect, I do like Maloof; sanding dust and epoxy. 








This panel had a chunk missing. Maybe a bullet hole It's hidden inside the chest.

I'm not a fan of wood putty's. That plastic wood is ok stuff. Whatchya'll use?


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Sanding dust and epoxy doesn't take stain or finsih very well does it?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Actually, if it's abraded with sandpaper, it seems to take finishes as well as wood putty's imo.

Plus it just it looks better. Often it will just look like a dark streak in the wood. I've been doing this ever since I read that Maloof and Nakashima used this method. I imagine Nakashima went through some epoxy on stuff like this;-)


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

When you said Maloof did it, I thought it probably worked pretty well. I just didn't know why, Thanks,


----------



## renners

What a day










I need a beer.


----------



## theoldfart

wow, give yourself a growler or two. Your home or a client?


----------



## Hammerthumb

That's a great looking fireplace surround. Very nice. Be proud of that!


----------



## renners

For a client Kevin, I didn't mean to turn his room into a building site, but he's alright about it. Omelettes/eggs.


----------



## theoldfart

Sounds like a good client getting a good job, win, win all around.


----------



## DanKrager

That is an awesome surround! Looking forward to the finished product.
DanK


----------



## CL810

Renners you deserve any drink you want. That is flat out beautiful!


----------



## ScomelBasses

Fantastic job, renners!


----------



## jmartel

Finally almost finished with the massive built-ins. Delivery on Monday and then I can finally use that area of the shop again.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ Git r done brotha.

Renners- so…ya just gonna leave it like that? Snicker. That looks great. Can't wait to see some finish on it.

Sneak peak. I really like how the sides came out:


----------



## CL810

Real nice Red. Love the grain patterns and the finish.


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, where's the like button on this site? That is superb! That's not your workbench nor your joinery bench underneath. Did I miss one somewhere back?
DanK


----------



## BentheViking

ain't that the best part of finishing a project is getting the shop space back…until you fill it with something else


----------



## jmartel

Very true, Ben. However, my house isn't big enough to really have something as big as these fit correctly in it. The built-ins are 10' long and 8' high.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Dan and Andy. I'm not a huge fan of "golden oak", but it looks pretty good. Oak always looks better with stain. Should match the outlaws bedroom set pretty well.

Dan, that's just my outfeed table. It doubles as an assembly/finishing/whatever table. 









-
However Dan, I'm gonna start the new year by building the cabinets below my joinery bench. Time to get that thing done.


----------



## BentheViking

red im envious of your shop…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks man. It's been a labor of love. Check out my shop blog if you want to see how it came to be;-)


----------



## BentheViking

great read red…i thnk ive seen bits and pieces of your that before but never read through it all


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks buddy. I just noticed that today is my one year anniversary on lumberjocks. Do you guys even remember what your lives were like before your big red buddy?....lol

This darn place has further enabled my addiction to tools and woodworking. But man, I'vd learned a lot this past year!


----------



## theoldfart

Lemme' tell you something' pal, life was a whole lot easier till you showed up with your overachieving ways, nice shop, cool family, great work and good company. Now get lost! Happy anniversary pal, ;0)>


----------



## JohnnyStrawberry

Bosch MRC23EVSK router stopped...
Anyone ever had the same problem?


----------



## CFrye

Happy Anniversary Red!! do you remember life before LJ? ;-)


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Congrats and Happy Anniversary!


----------



## SCOTSMAN

A man of your obvious ability can fix that. In other words what we make from scratch we can fix even at the eleventh hour. Have fun it looks beautiful to me anyway Alistair


----------



## yuridichesky

Happy anniversary Red!


----------



## Pezking7p

Renners, that is outstanding!

BRK happy jockiversary.

Johnny, I wish I was there to help you. You have a short somewhere. I would guess maybe in a speed control circuit, or inside the switch. The light dims because there is a lot of current going somewhere else, then it trips an automatically resetting over current device. If you're in to such things, I would check the switch first with a multimeter. If you're not in to such things…I think you're at the mercy of service department. Just fixed my dad's drill press this morning, which turned out to be a bad switch caused by a pulley that had come loose.

So I'm at my parents house for Christmas, I show up last night to find a house full of beautiful craftsman furniture, mostly Amish made stickley knockoffs. Very cool. Spent most of the day trying to modify these built in benches to be storage bins with hinged lids. The framework stinks and I've had some hinge engineering in order to open the lids without hitting the wall, very fun.


----------



## sgmdwk

Yesterday I finished a blanket chest/toy box for my granddaughter. I'll give it to her Wednesday. I just made up the design as I went along. Kind of overkill for a toy box, but the goal was to make her something she can use for the rest of her life - a remembrance of the old guy, if you will. It's the first time I tried wood dye rather than stain, on pine. It seemed to bring the grain out nicely. Not up to the standards of some of the works of art I see on LJ, but OK for work from an old Soldier who just does this for fun. Merry Christmas to you all.


----------



## JohnnyStrawberry

Thanks Pez. I appreciate it.
Ripping apart power tools for mechanical adjustment - changing bearings, etc - or greasing is no problem.
Especially when they're heavily used.








But I certainly can't fix such an electrical problem. I don't even have a meter.
Besides it's almost brand new, it's under warranty. Plus I only have the time to take the older, bigger router out from the table. 164 M&Ts take some time… 
Thanks again.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dave K.- That just looks lovely. Thanks for sharing it. I'll be looking for a project post with more pics if you have time. I agree, the dye looks great. Probably better than any stain would have on pine. Merry Christmas to you sir.

"Happy Jockiversary".....hehe, I like that.

Life before LJs? Yes, what did I used to do with all my free time?


----------



## mds2

I finished the hope chest. After my glue problems with the top, I cut it back apart and then tongue and grooved all of the boards with a 18th century T&G plane that I received in the LJ plave swap. Then I reglued using TB Transparent. The finish is Danish Oil with satin poly over the top.


----------



## vikingcape

Wow! Renners that came out nice. It must be blanket chest season or something, they look great guys


----------



## CL810

Really nice chest mds2.


----------



## Pezking7p

Gorgeous chest.


----------



## BTimmons

The last two chests look fantastic.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

mds2- Man, I like the looks of your chest better than mine. That could be taken wrong….lol. I've never made one with a frame around the top of the box. I like that. The contrasting woods are nice too. Good job.


----------



## mds2

I like the lip around the top too, but it limited the hinges choices. I was wanting to use torsion hinges like the ones you put on your chest. Like I said before this isn't my design so I cant take credit, but thank you all for the compliments. It was a fun build with its own unique challenges.


----------



## renners

Well the machines are going to be off for a week, looking forward to just chilling for a couple of days. Hope you all have a great Christmas.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"So wrap our injured
Flesh around you
Breathe our air and walk our sod
Rob our sin
And make us holy
Perfect Son of God
Welcome to our world"

Merry Christmas Lumberjocks! Give everyone you love a big hug and a smooch on the cheek;-)


----------



## CFrye

Beautiful Red. Merry Christmas all.


----------



## vikingcape

Merry Christmas all


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Oh I should have noted the source Candy. That's from a Chris Rice song.

....And to all a Good Night!


----------



## CFrye

Red, I found the Amy Grant version on YouTube.


----------



## b2rtch

Fantastic thread with fantastic workers. 
I love to read is thread as it inspire me to do a better work.
I just wish that it was way to "collect/organize" the different subjects treated in it.

I never heard Welcome to our World before, this is a beautiful song, thank you for sharing
I only wish that we knew how to truly welcome Him as He deserve it.
Merry *CHRIST*-mas to you all.

mds2, what the dimensions of your chest, it looks huge


----------



## BHolcombe

Still not complete since I'm working on the doors.


----------



## CL810

That is just flat out beautiful. More pics of the veneer work please.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^More nice work. How ya doing the dovetails?


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks guys, will do.

The dovetails are by hand, I chop out the waste with a chisel rather than use a coping saw, then pare to the exact fit.


----------



## CL810

This LJ is worth checking out. Go to his website to see his furniture.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ Did that guys really say he "plays around with marquetry." Man….sweet stuff. Thanks for sharing Clayton.

BHolcombe- whatever your doing with those dovetails sure is working. I'd like to do some solid casework like that someday.

Well here's the project post on the blanket chest:


The delivery had it's own adventures. What are the chances some dear friends of mine from CO would pass me down the interstate while taking this thing to my in-laws? They said they were just trying to check out the chest when they realized it was me. So we had a rendezvous at the quick shop. 









Two of my favorite people in the world (the practically adopted me in high school) posing with my fam….and the chest. Good times.


----------



## Pezking7p

Looks great roja. How was the reception?

I just bought flexners book on finishing. Any recommendations before I start making furniture? Design books for arts and crafts furniture is kind of on my list, as well as joinery (not necessarily hand tool joinery)


----------



## CFrye

Great looking fam and friends, Red! Blanket chest turned out beautifully as well.


----------



## WhoMe

Ok, this may not be up to the quality of a lot of work on this thread but it was my first piece of actual furniture.

My mom requested a foot stool a while back and I finally got around to it. The last coat of finish was applied about 10-11AM Dec 25. 
Originally it was supposed to be made out of PVC pipe with a basic top but about 2 weeks ago, I figured that would not do. It HAD to be made out of wood with dovetails and some design elements. So I started the sizing and design elements. I started the build about a week ago. The final product didn't turn out too bad. After finishing it, I can see some of the proportions are off but Mom like it a lot. 

















More info and what went into it is here on my projects

Sorry David, my first try at through dovetails was by jig and router. Not sure if I will get to full hand cut ones but maybe a hybrid will be my happy medium. But IMO, you still learn how they work by machine too as you still have to learn how they fit together.


----------



## fatandy2003

Long time stalker, first time poster. I have enjoyed following this thread but didn't really have much to contribute. I have remedied that. Here is my first finished piece of "furniture," if you can call it that…


----------



## jayden

I appreciate your work. To do these kind of jobs you need plenty of new and creative ideas. Designing and making furniture is an art. Your Morris chair looking very comfortable nice job.


----------



## theoldfart

I don't think I noted this here, but Santa delivered theses to CA a few weeks ago

A table is in the works.


----------



## ShaneA

Good stuff posted above, they all look really good. I am not sure how the PVC version would have turned out, but I am thinking you did pretty well for yourself on the wood one.

Jewelry chest is amazing, and I am looking forward to the table build Kevin. Really like the chair's looks/design.


----------



## mojapitt

I haven't had to write, but I have been reading. Great information shared here.


----------



## CL810

Mike, I bet your mom was very pleased - nice stool.

FatAndy, that is some craftsmanship on display.


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks red, the dovetails just seem to take a lot if patience. Your blanket chest looks fantastic!

Andy, awesome work!

Here is an up close of the veneer:









Sorry having trouble with pictures. The handles are gaboon ebony.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Lots of great projects got finished around the holidays!

Mike- It takes skill to operate power tools too. Those dovetails look great.

fatandy- I'm not gonna let my wife see that;-)

Pez- I used to hit the library to find project and plans. Saves you from buying books you might not want.

Bholcombe- remember you have to reduce photos to 600 x whatever pixels here. You can use the edit settings in photobucket, but it will change the link….causing you to edit or repost. I usually just reduce them before I upload to photobucket. That site's a pain.


----------



## fatandy2003

Thanks guys. I definitely learned ALOT during that project. Most of all, I learned how to hide mistakes 

Red, I think I may regret the decision to give her such a "sizable" jewelry box…


----------



## HerbC

BigRedKnothead,

I'm not sure you're aware of it but you don't need to use PhotoBucket for pictures you want to show here at LJ.

You can upload directly from your computer, just click on the img button, browse to locate the photo you want to use on your computer, then click the insert this photo button.

There's a 5 MB limit on photo size.

Here's a photo I just uploaded during this comment…










Herb


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ I did not know that! Thanks Herb.


----------



## WillieIV

Red, your stop with your friends is in my town. Ole Smiley face water tower is where I was born and raised and still live today with my family. Small world!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ha! Adair, IA. Yep the tower is a dead giveaway;-)


----------



## mds2

b2rtch- It's 43×22x20.


----------



## WhoMe

Ok, for all you that know more than me…

I am planning on building the following. this is a initial sketchup design. 








Some of the design details are still in discussion like the leg design and edging details as well as the cubby divider design.

The above will be in two pieces and most likely completed at different times. The bottom drawer section and the top swatch cubby section. Both will be for the wife and her embroidery and sewing hobby. The top part will have the cubbies for groups of colored swatches for applique work. All the white wood will be curly maple (tinted to enhance the grain) and the drawer fronts will be pauduk (clear finish). Drawer pulls will be ebony of a TBD shape.

As for construction, I will be doing dovetails where I can including the bottom carcase interior sides to top/bottom (half blinds), drawer fronts to drawer sides (half blinds - hopefully hand cut) and sliding dovetails for the drawer dividers. All hidden woods will be poplar like the bottom of the carcase, the top of the carcase under the maple top and the hidden frame between the drawers with a maple facing piece. Not sure on the drawer sides and back yet or the rear carcase and cubby parts regarding woods. . Probably soft or hard maple for the drawer pieces but unsure on the other two. Maybe a birch ply for the backs. I am still looking in to drawer slide designs too. 
A third piece is in the planning stages that will be kind of like a tool cabinet with 2 or 3 drawers to store 100-150 thread spools and the top part to store all the embroidery machine accessories and other tools. This will be completed a ways out though.

Anyway, I am trying to figure out how best to attach the top and bottom pieces (cubby to drawer cabinet) when they are complete. Anyone have any suggestions. I was thinking some kind of fastener at the back of both pieces. I was also thinking maybe some paduk bow ties on the sides but am thinking that may not be the best idea.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 
Mike


----------



## b2rtch

mds2, thank you and happy new year.


----------



## BHolcombe

Mike,

I'm thinking two full length splines cut flush into the back that are fairly hefty. If you make them a sliding dovetail or a tongue and groove they will work without the need for fasteners if you make it 'blind' on the top and bottom.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mike, I used some connector bolts to attach the top of my dining hutch to base. Look like this:









Except I countersunk them flush. Work pretty well. Got them at menards. 
Looking forward to your build.


----------



## vikingcape

I imagine mike that you want to be able to take the two apart in order to move them? Reds suggestion is the way I would go. Or a metal bracket in the back the screws the two parts together. I'm envious of you guys with how good you are at sketchup. My plans look like a child that scrawled it with the end of a burnt stick on some cheap notebook paper


----------



## WhoMe

Thanks guys. Red, I was thinking that but if this drawers are used without the cubby I'll have holes. I'll have to think about that. I was thinking more along the path of what Kaleb suggested but I figured I would ask for other options too consider.

Kaleb, that was too funny. One thing that was a turning point for me was a comment in a sketchup article. "Draw the 2d First. Then make the 3d plug of the 2d.
It makes things WAY easier on my end.plus there are some great tutorial videos that were posted on the lj forum. Do a search on sketchup and go from there.
Btw, you nandoticed there were no joints or internal details… this is all I can do right now.. and it was several tries for this..lol
It does take practice. I probably have 20+ hours of time on the program over the past year. But I think I'm getting the hang of the basics.


----------



## BentheViking

I have to agree about those screw post connectors as a good way to go. I also have to agree that sketch up takes a lot too learn. I've only played on the program so far, which seems to have gone well, but I have yet to turn something into a real project so who knows how well it really goes. Mike I have to ask what exactly is the purpose your furniture piece (sorry if I missed it in another post)?


----------



## lanwater

I can't say that I read all the post in this thread, but I can say I looked at all the pictures and read some comments.

Great hangout you created.


----------



## gfadvm

Not sure if this counts as furniture but it's as close as I can get!


----------



## Pezking7p

Gfad, I'm really loving that little guy…unique design but not weird or obnoxious. Very cool black cherry boards for the drawer faces. Warm color, it could go with a lot of different styles of furniture. A+++


----------



## WhoMe

Ben, np, I'm building it for my wife's sewing and embroidery. In this case, the top part is for cloth swatches (grouped by color or pattern) for her applique work. The bottom drawer set will be for general storage of sewing and embroidery supplies.


----------



## DanKrager

WhoMe, why do you want to fasten the top to the bottom? It looks quite stable as is. If you want to move it, you would probably do it in two pieces anyway. I say forget the fasteners.

BTW, had you considered elevating the top to leave a space between top and bottom cases, similar to kitchen cabinets or DR hutch? Make the sides and back of the upper piece long, elevating the cubbies, to enlarge the work space available atop the drawer section. If the top was a bit narrower than the base, then a "baseboard" molding around the "feet" of the top would finish nicely and make transition between top and bottom more interesting. Still, no fastening required.
DanK


----------



## Pezking7p

Just finished the second coat of poly on my "pop that maple" halter rack. Looks like it's going to be a success, which means this technique is foolproof (this is my first time finishing anything ever). In the future, I will not be applying stain via shellac, I'll just use alcohol.


----------



## WhoMe

Pez, love that curly maple. That is what I,m building the furniture out of myself. My work just sot some more curly maple in that is amazing. Gonna have to pick up a couple of boards as it is WAY more figured than what I picked up for the furniture. May have to incorporate a piece or two into the furniture right away.

Hmmm Dan, that is a very interesting idea. Will have to work up a modified sketchup drawing and propose it to the customer (the wife) and see what she thinks. I was also toying with the idea of a pull out work area, kind of like a cutting board, above the top drawer but it was met with little enthusiasm. But Ill have to propose both again and see what happens. By the way, do you have a link to a picture of a DR hutch. Im having trouble picturing what that hutch is. 
Thanks for the idea.

And initially, here were the fasteners that I was thinking of using by just screwing them to the back of both pieces.


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## widdle

Wow great stuff goin down here…gfadvm..Great peice, what is the lumber on your fronts..very cool..


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## DanKrager

WhoMe, this sorta represents what I was thinking about the open space.

Just putting fasteners of any sort at just the back doesn't do anything mechanically for the cabinet. They just get in the way because you have to release them upon moving the cabinet most likely. If you want to PM me, I'll quickly modify a copy of your Sketchup to show what I mean….
DanK


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## john2005

Gfadvm, what do you mean you are not sure if it counts. It's awesome. I love the "skeleton" case. Looks great!


----------



## WhoMe

I see said the blind man as he walked into the wall.
Thanks Dan. Now I understand the open space better. As for the fasteners, this will most likely not move unless the room is rearranged. So I'll have to think about it more.
Thanks.


----------



## CFrye

Question for those who know more than I(that's pretty much everybody): I am in the very early planning stages of a wall hung tool chest and want to use piano hinges for the doors. What length of screws would be best? I am thinking solid wood carcass. Probably red oak or maybe alder since that is about the only choice I have locally. Thanks for your assistance. I am really learning a lot from this thread.


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## vikingcape

Candy, when I have bought piano hinges they came with screws, small brass ones, which worked just fine. If you are worried about weight, or if you are hanging tools off of the door you are using hinges on then just get the size screws that are short enough that don't come through the wood.

Isn't there a hardwood dealer close by you? Or a sawmill? The closest to me is an hour away, but it's still a lot more reasonable than going to the big box stores, and more fun too. Try an internet search or the yellow pages has a listing, at least near me it does


----------



## CFrye

Kaleb I am looking at the piano hinges at Lee Valley which do not include the screws. Yes, on the weight thing. The screws will be going into the edge of the boards, somewhat like this
There is a Woodcraft store an hour away from me that I have never been to. They don't sell lumber per say, do they? I've been looking and asking about local sawmills without any luck, so far.


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## vikingcape

You could call leevalley or email them and ask about the weight distribution thing. They would have an idea on the load bearing of those hinges. The hinges I used were from a local hardware store by me and I used them simply to open and close, not to hold weight.

In regards to the wood, yes woodcraft should have a stock of it, at least the one an hour away from me does, but you are going to pay a little more for it. Check for hardwood dealers, or lumberyards that stock hardwoods, even some hardware stores have hardwood. Maybe ask a cabinet shop, or builder close to you, they might know. Don't know if I helped at all


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## BigRedKnothead

Candy- have you tried woodfinder.com. It can be tough to find direct lumber sources, but it's worth it. I found a few of mine by just asking guys at lumber yards, "do ya know anybody who?"

I'm sure the piano hinges from LV will be fine. Those hinges are pretty strong, and part of the strength is because they take a LOT of screws. If they don't come with screws, ask LV to if they have some 3/4" or so screws that will work. Or…just find some locally when you get the piano hinges.


----------



## CL810

Candy, You go to Woodmizer's website and find Woodmizer owner's in your area. Some sell wood, others just cut up trees for people. It worked for me.


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## Pezking7p

^^^ WOW! That is an amazing resource. Bookmarked.

On average, how would you guys compare the quality of "home sawn" wood like that to the quality from a lumber dealer? I worry there would be more warping and cupping.

Also, Candy. Re: screw strength. I just installed some 100lb drawer slides that attach with 3 screws, 1/2" each, on each side. So that's 50lbs per side, or about 17lbs per screw. Just food for thought. I reckon a handful of screws in a piano hinge would be pretty bomb proof.


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## CFrye

Well I never even thought to ask anyone at Lee Valley. Not used to shopping at places that actually have knowledgable staff. Thanks Kaleb. And thanks Red and CL810. Don't know what I did differently this morning that I haven't done before in searching for a saw mill (things get a little fuzzy after a nap and 12 hour night shift). I did locate a saw mill about 45 min. away! Yay!


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## BigRedKnothead

Pez- it really depends on the sawmill. Some of them get their lumber rated (select, common etc.), others don't bother. Some are really good about drying properly, others not so much. It always helps to arm yourself with knowledge.

I don't have a moisture meter. I have asked sawmills to use theirs on lumber I'm interested in. I always ask a lot about their process to see if they know their stuff. If you get, "ya, should be dry enough." I'd be skeptical.


----------



## Pezking7p

Thanks red. There's a lot of those local guys in my area. I guess I'll need to educate myself a bit more before buying anything.

So, it's time for a kitchen cabinet gut check, I'm looking for input. How big of a mistake is it to make painted kitchen cabinets? Mostly from resale value and finishing difficulty perspective. Thoughts?


----------



## gfadvm

Widdle, Those drawer fronts are some Arkansas Black Cherry that I sawed. The sapwood, birdseye figure, inclusions, etc were just to unique to throw away. Hope my MIL likes it. It gets delivered this Saturday. I was gonna put it out for some sun but we haven't seen sun or above freezing temps since I built it!


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## JohnnyStrawberry

Candy, I'm looking forward to your report on the sawmill trip. I think every sawmill / lumberyard is wonderland. :-D (Here)


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## BigRedKnothead

Chuckling, I said "rate," I meant "grade" their lumber.

Pez and Candy- Ya, do a little research on moisture content and grading. But if there are sources in your area, just go check them out. Tell 'em you want to see what they've got. If your as lucky as me you'll find a place like this:
http://lumberjocks.com/BigRedKnothead/blog/38067

The gentleman who owns that mill is the salt of the earth. A wealth of knowledge. He teaches me something every time I visit with him. 
So, don't be surprised if you make some friends along the way. Something about woodworking attracts many of the finest people I've known.


----------



## chrisstef

Pez - I just finished painting my kitchen cabinets 3 months ago. We installed new doors that we ordered from the web and I made all new drawer fronts. From a resale perspective I know that we added value to the house. How much is speculative though. It took me an entire week of 8 hour days to put 3 coats on all of the surfaces (didn't paint the interiors) spraying the doors and fronts with an HVLP and brushing the boxes. In hindsight I would have brushed on the primer coat instead of spraying it. They came out a little bumpy as the gun was "spitty" on me. Cabinet doors probably wasn't the best call for my first spray job lol.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Pez- I forgot to comment on that too. I see now problem with painting kitchen cabinets. I've been seeing it more and more. I painted our existing cabinets to bring then up to date.

Btw, a painter buddy of mine just said to get the best semi-gloss latex I could find. He' claims the new latex paints are just as tough as oil. I used Behr's kitchen and bath. Sprayed it on real thick. Five years later, he was right. That stuff is tough enough for the job.


----------



## chrisstef

Ill agree with the modified latex paints. I used Ben Moore advanced and while its taken a a bit of time to fully cure its really tough stuff. It stays open for quite a while so it was easy to work but the downside was that it needed 16 hours to recoat.


----------



## Pezking7p

You could spray the latexes?


----------



## BentheViking

I just sprayed my cabinets with SW's Pro Classic enamel. sprayed easily and they look good now, but they've only been up for about 3 months so I can't speak to the longevity yet


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## BigRedKnothead

Sure Pez, you can spray latex. Stef used an HVLP, I used an airless like this Graco magnum.

I love that sprayer. I've used it to spray furniture, cabinets, and my entire house. IMO spraying is the only way to get a professional looking job with paint. If you don't want to invest in one, just rent it.


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## Pezking7p

Thanks guys. I've got an hvlp already. I'm going to have to look in to tips for latex I guess. Everyone before had said to only use oil based.

Completely off topic. It's colder than a witches nipple in my house. 56 degrees…I guess that tells you that my house needs windows and insulation. Crap.


----------



## jmartel

56? That's not too bad. I normally keep my house at 60. One week when it was super cold, I discovered that my heating system really wasn't the correct size for the house and the temp dropped to 52.


----------



## Pezking7p

I keep it at 64 at night. 56 isn't miserable, but my fiancée disagrees, so you can guess what I'm doing this weekend. Insulating my attic is way cheaper than upgrading the heat pump. Plus I found out there's about 2" of insulation in my attic, and now I'm wondering if there's any in the walls.

The good news is I can blow R49 in my whole attic for $350. The bad news is I have to take up all the floorboards to do it. Not sure how to put down 16" of insulation but still have a floor….hmmm.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

A new year, time for some planning and regrouping in my little shop. 2013 was quite a productive year. I built a bench and five sizable pieces of furniture. Not bad for a hobbyist.

I've got a couple small projects I want to knock out and then I'll start on the lower cabinets for my joinery bench. About that, there's a part of me that wants to use that build a practice for furniture (as I usually do on shop stuff). That would mean some stuff I've never done like a solid dovetailed carcass and solid dovetailed drawers. I'm just not sure I can justify the expense. Baltic birch ply would be a lot more practical for shop cabinets. Still thinking on that.

I've got a few prospective large commissions brewing. We'll see what the year brings. I planed a new skin on my benchtop. It's ready for work.


----------



## CFrye

She freshened up beautifully Red! Staying tuned for the 'rest of the story'!


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## Pezking7p

Bench looks like new again red. Why not make a dovetailed carcass, but use plywood? It might look neat with finish on the exposed plywood layers.


----------



## lysdexic

Nice work Rojo. What finish to you put on your bench.


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## BentheViking

i had the same idea as pez trying to dovetail plywood


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## TopamaxSurvivor

*i had the same idea as pez trying to dovetail plywood*

I was going to suggest that, but I thought everyone would think I was a fool ;-)) Anyone ever done it?


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## Wally331

Well its not a solid carcass, but it worked quite well. With some edge banding I bet you couldn't tell this isn't solid.


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## BigRedKnothead

Ya, that was hands down the coldest night I've spent working on the railroad. Bbrrrrr.

I never would have thought of dovetailing BB ply either. But it looks like Wally called me out. Now I've got to dovetail the drawers at least;-)
Half-blinds would be cool, but I really want full extension metal slides on these cabinets. Sorry Airframer, I will not be attempting full extension wood slides (snicker).

Lys- Several coats of danish oil. I won't be doing any paste wax this time. Too slick.


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## Airframer

Well Red.. if you are satisfied with mediocrity go right ahead… just sayin'


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## john2005

^hahaha. Reds mediocre.


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## BigRedKnothead

He DID call me mediocre.

That sonnuuva motherless goat!....lol


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## Airframer




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## BigRedKnothead

How about the first piece of furniture you ever made?

I made the desk I still use in high school shop. My shop teacher helped quite a bit I'm sure. I picked the plans out from a large library of woodsmith issues he had. The top is 1 1/2" mdf core I believe. The "C" shaped legs have large mortise and tenon joints I milled prior to laminating 4/4 red oak. 








-
I remember being quite proud of the fold down keyboard drawer








I didn't make the adjacent file cabinet. It's oak express crap.


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## CFrye

My first project post…not exactly sure if it qualifies as furniture. Furniture sites on top of it!


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## pintodeluxe

Red,
You did better than my first high school shop project, which was a step stool. 
It is long gone now.


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## BigRedKnothead

Candy- It props furniture. I think it counts.

Willie- I think the very first thing I made was some cd holders like this:








-
....and I managed to jack them up several times.

I made a couple decent pieces of furniture in HS. They're all still in the family. But as I said, I relied heavily on my shop teacher.


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## lysdexic

I built a table today. Blog


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## Picklehead

And your father smelled of elderberry.


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## lysdexic

Pickle,

I am sorry you don't like the table. BTW, my father couldn't help it. He was cursed with foul apocrine glands.


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## CL810

Lys, I think he was referencing Eric's post #1082


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## lysdexic

I figured. I was just taking advantage of the opportunity :^)


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## CL810

Good one!


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## lanwater

First piece (maybe):










This one might be better "furniture" :


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## lanwater

Anyone knows where to get this style of table legs? I does not have to be that big or curve.


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## ColonelTravis

Built-ins that I technically did not build. My father-in-law did and I just cut the stuff he told me to cut, but this is what inspired me to get into this whole world.


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## lanwater

Nice! Got to redo mine ;


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## DanKrager

lanwater, how many do you want? I can do them (for a price) or you can contact some carvers I know in India. There are other carvers here, but you might have to go to them rather than them to you. The cheapest will be someone with a CNC duplicator, but detail will be fuzzy compared to hand cut. PM me.
DanK


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## Picklehead

Lys, CL810 is right. One of my favorite movies. I do like the table, went to the thread and read how you did it. I have more respect for your method than mine, I would have power-tooled it all the way. Ni !


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## BigRedKnothead

Man, those are nice lookin' bookcases folks. I need to do something like that. Our basement is overflowing with books.

Lys, what are these "quick, no pressure projects" you speak of


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## byerbyer

My first furniture project is also from my HS shop class days. I still use this table today as well. I've been meaning to build a leaf for… well since HS. Top is 4/4 oak face and edge glued to make 1-1/2" thickness. Pedestal is mortise and tenons, with pre-cut mortises in the 4/4 glue-ups.



















I had to refinish the top coat after some abuse during my college days, but otherwise it's held up pretty well.










I've learned a lot more about grain matching and some other techniques I'd like to try on the next table.


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## lanwater

Cool dining table byerbyer.


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## BigRedKnothead

Yessir byer. Goes to show, even when we're novices, if it's built right it will last a lifetime.


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## ToddJB

My first piece of furniture was this table. It was actually my first wood working project. It was 4 years ago. I found all the wood in the alley behind my house, a neighbor had torn down a fence. I bar rowed all the tools from a buddy, and I cobbled this together. It's heavy and sturdy, but I would not call it fine woodworking. But I love the reclaimed style and we use it daily.


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## lanwater

I love the reclaimed style too ToddJB.

Nice build.


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## jmartel

First furniture thing I ever did was this kitchen island thing. I modified a bathroom cabinet I found at the Habitat for Humanity restore, by adding shelves to the back, and a top. It was a POS, but it worked at the time.


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## WhoMe

Ok, guys, Here is V2 of the cabinet I'm planning to build. Still working on details since updating the chest of drawers to match the height of existing sewing tables and adding drawers.










On to the question. Of the information I have been reading on building a chest of drawers, I have yet to find a guide regarding drawer depth versus cabinet depth. I am sure some of it may be up to the designer but anyone know of a guideline. Like 2" less than the cabinet depth (assuming 1/2 - 3/4 cabinet back thickness).

Also, Im looking for ideas on supporting the drawers when they are extended out. I would prefer not to use metal slides because I want to use half blind dovetails on the drawer fronts to sides. I like the idea of the more classic furniture where the drawers ride on either wooden slides with dados/recesses in the drawer sides or maybe just a friction fit/slide with minimal clearance. 
Welcoming ideas and suggestions. 
Thanks


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## JohnnyStrawberry

My first furniture was our bed.
Mike, that looks great. I'd vote for the minimal clearance. [2% vertically, 0,2% horizontally]
See this:








Those drawers are 14pounds each.
But you'd better use solid hardwood for the drawer sides and solid hardwood for the frame they slide on, too. Maple you said, right?
This kind of project is a 'stock eater' anyways. 
I have another tip for these 'framed' drawers. Don't make them flush. Make them a bit proud and round the edges of the front. I'll take some sample photo in the evening about that if you're interested.


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## j1212t

My first furniture project was a cabinet to hide our cat litter trays. Also doubling as a TV stand.









Was rather pleased with it, but I would do some things differently now. All the material was pine, except the bottom which was OSB, jointed with pocket screws.


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## DanKrager

WhoMe, I'm not gonna imply that you should use metal slides, in fact, I admire your gutsy move to use wood slides. However, I'm curious to understand the statement "I would prefer not to use metal slides because I want to use half blind dovetails on the drawer fronts to sides." I've used metal slides on utility stuff with half blind dovetails a lot. I cut the dovetail dado deep enough (wide enough?) that the fronts cover the 1/2" space the metal slides require.

I think you will be hard pressed to find a wooden slide arrangement that will hold the weight of an extended drawer that big. An old filing cabinet of mine uses a combination metal to wood that does pretty good.

Have you considered under drawer hardware?
DanK


----------



## lateralus819

My first piece, federal inspried/shaker inspired. Very fun project. I really would like to try another one or better yet, a sideboard. My wife and mother in law keep telling me to make "smalls" to sell, but i don't really enjoy making them. Like napkin holders, candle holders, small boxes etc.


----------



## chrisstef

That vase has a real set of balls on it Todd. Sitting in the middle of the table al defiant like that. I dig the table.

This trestle table was my first furniture. Reclaimed from an 1880's house that we had gutted for work. Mostly pine.


----------



## renners

My first piece was a Welsh pine chest of drawers for a girlfriend at the time. 
You'll have to take my word for it because I tore up all the photographs…
I can laugh about it now.


----------



## john2005

Can't even remember my first piece, but also HS. A "not as cool as Reds" desk maybe. Sorry not many pics from that time and I sold a lot of what I had when I was moving around after school. The one I do have is the bed I made for my wife as a wedding gift. I will put up pics when she wakes up and gets out of it.


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## vikingcape

I'll post a picture when I get home from work today of my first "woodworking" project so we can all have a good laugh.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Todd- that table is pretty cool. Did you get the hardware (bolts and L-brackets) from the reclaimed wood too?

Mike- Not sure of any rules about drawer depth. I've made them so they all the way back and touched the back of the case with a felt bumper. But I usually make them an inch or two short….and go with dimensions that would be the most efficient use of my stock. 
On the slides, I would use undermount metal slides, or wood slides like in this blog.

Lateralus must have brass cojones. Very challenging first furniture project. Looks like you nailed it.

I just have to dedicate this broken heart to Renners. It's from Stefs very favorite band.


----------



## chrisstef

Ohh gawd, that song makes me gag.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I have a bit of an ornery side if you haven't noticed


----------



## ToddJB

Red, all hardware was brand new from the HD. Just lags and rafter brackets. But i ground them down on a bench grinder, and sprayed with a reddish rust color, then scattered sea salt over them, and sprayed multiple more layers, let dry, scrap salt off, applied more salt and did a few coats of black, then scrapped salt again. The goal was an old rusty look - it sorta worked.

As you can see on the bottom right bracket some has chipped off and the shinny new metal is exposed underneath - should have used a self etching primer first.


----------



## BentheViking

todd im a big fan of that table too


----------



## WhoMe

Dan, I guess I should clarify my statement. As much as I like the utility of metal slides, for this piece, I think it will ruin the aesthetics of the piece. with pauduk fronts and maple sides, the dovetails will look really nice and I don't want to ruin it with metal slides. 
I like the idea of a wooden slide similar to what Red posted in his link. BUT, I may have to think about the bottom slides. I think Ill wait till I actually start construction of the drawers (or at least final planning) before I make the decision. 
As for weight of what the drawers will carry, the whole cabinet is designed around sewing and applique work. So storage will consist of shirts, towels cloth for other projects and probably light accessories. And with a width of only 27 inches of the cabinet, the drawers will not really be that big. 
Depth wise on the sides, I think I will probably make them almost hit the back but have a stop so the fronts are flush or just lightly proud of the case. 
Still have some sketchup to do.

Thanks for the opinions. Appreciate it for ideas and considerations. Gotta love this community.


----------



## WhoMe

my first pieces of furniture were from Jr. High wood shop. Never had wood shop in high school. Was more interested in partying and band.
But, here is a picture of two of my "furniture pieces" The foot stool was from the first class as part of 3 classes for the school year including drafting and metal shop. It was made of pine. The chess table was from the successive class that lasted all school year. Walnut, oak and mahogany were used. 
Currently the stool has a trash can that sits on it and the chess table gets jun put on it. 
You can tell they are still around and the old Deft water based finish has not held up well over they years.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Its been a while since I been here. Had a recent death in the family. I had promised a few pictures of half blind dovetails and will try to get that posted today.
Very nice first projects from many of you. I did not have shop class in high school and really did not get into woodworking until a little later in life, but I guess that it was so long ago that I don't even remember my first project. I know that I would not have pictures of it anyway as I have not been very good at recording projects.
Glad to see this thread continuing.
Hope you all have started a great 2014!


----------



## CL810

Sorry to hear of your loss Paul. I noticed your absence and was just wondering today how the jewelry case was coming along.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

My condolences as well Paul. I'm sorry to hear that.

I haven't had anything like that, but some health issues and such have slowed me down a bit of late. Real life sometimes gets in the way of my furniture making


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Clayton. Case is finished, except for the lining for the drawers and sides. Went to my mothers house the other day (for other reasons) and looked around for the right fabric as she used to be a great seemstress. She says what I want is buried in a closet. We'll get to it soon though. I will not post it as a project until I get that taken care of, but will be posting a few progress pics on this thread. Trying to get the dovetail pictures together right now for a post.

Thanks again for your kind words. It was my sister that passed. I really miss her.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Red. Posted at the same time. You're right, real life does get in the way sometimes. But we deal with it.


----------



## theoldfart

Paul, really sorry to hear this. My condolences.


----------



## CFrye

Sorry for your loss Paul. Prayers for you and your family.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Kevin. I really apreciate the thoughts.

As I had promised to post some half blind DTs that I made on this chest, I will try to make this as simple as possible. I appologize in advance for the poor photography.

The obstacle that I had for the top 2 sets of double drawers is that with the radius that I put on the front of the cabinet, I was either going to have to laminate thicker pieces for the drawer faces, or angle the faces slightly to follow the radius more closely. I elected to angle the faces. The measured angel turned out to be 3.5 degrees off of the normal 90 degrees. I usually cut tails first, and for half blind I usually use the band saw for this. I started with cutting both sides with the 3.5 deg angle to match the drawer face as seen here in the pictures:



















As you can see, I have also cut a shoulder on the inside of the drawer side. This helps setting up for the next operation, and minimizes the amount of chopping I have to do on the drawer face. The next step is to set the side on the drawer face to scribe the tails with my marking knife:










As you can see, I have acounted for the unusual angles that I am dealing with by raising the back of the side board to match the angle that the face was cut at. 
Notice in the next picture that I have made a notch where I want to rest the saw plate to begin the cut. I put this notch as close to the scribe line as I can. This helps getiing the saw started in the right spot and all I have to concentrate on is keeping the blade parallel to the scribe line and straight up and down.










Then a little DT saw work:










On to a little chopping:










After getting most of the waste out of the way, I stand the board up in my vise for paring.










Here I have pared the scribe line at the end of the tails:










And then on to the sides of the tails:










If anyone has noticed the dented corner on the right side of the drawer face - this is what happens when you don't fully tighten your vice. A little steam made it almost invisible. So on to the first fitting:










And then after a little paring:










And here you see the angle of 3.5 degrees off of 90.










Thanks for watching.


----------



## Hammerthumb

After posting this I realized that the last picture is of the opposite side of the drawer. I could not find one of the side I had shown in the other pirtures. Please forgive me. The angle of the opposite side goes the other direction and would hve the side raised up from the bench. Don't know how I got them mixed up, but I have about 300 pictures of this build, and they are not very well organized.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Also thanks Candy. Prayers are always welcome. Please say one for my mother as this has been very hard on her.


----------



## Hammerthumb

here is a picture of the top 2 drawers before I radiused the inside of the drawer faces. The outside of the faces were radiused prior to dovetailing.










This might help you understand the angles a little. The drawer sides toward the center are 5/8" longer than the outside pieces.


----------



## CFrye

Absolutely Paul. Thanks for the box/dovetail update.


----------



## Texcaster

ToddJB, I really like your table. I like to work fine and rough. It's a toss up sometimes. The direct and non fussy approach has a charm that is hard for me to resist.


----------



## mds2

HammerThumb, thanks for the tutorial! All I've done in the the shop for the last week is try to teach myself how to cut dovetails. Haven't tackled half-blinds yet but your post will be very handy. They look great.


----------



## theoldfart

Paul, thanks for the tip on notching before cutting. I've had the DT saw jump a few times!


----------



## waho6o9

My condolences to you and your family Paul.


----------



## ToddJB

Sorry to hear about the family member, Paul.

Thanks, Tex


----------



## jmartel

Next furniture project in the works. Compact computer desk designed to fit in a small nook between our fireplace and the wall


----------



## WhoMe

Paul, deepest condolences to you and your family. 
Thank you for the GREAT tutorial. Although I will not be doing angled drawer fronts, that tutorial showed me what I need to do when I make my drawers. I think I will practice a couple of times FIRST before tackling maple and pauduk on the final piece.


----------



## b2rtch

Very nice Paul thank you for showing.
Sorry for your loss.


----------



## vikingcape

Hows this? Side table with many more functions than setting the coffee on and dropping the remote off of it. As soon as I get a lathe….....


----------



## CFrye

Kaleb that is hysterical! I have to share that with my son. He'll love it!


----------



## BentheViking

thats pretty badass


----------



## renners

Anything look odd about this?
I mean, immediately odd?


----------



## knockknock

Anything look odd about this?
I mean, immediately odd?

The upper shelves are thicker than the lower shelves?

On second thought, that may just be shadows/lighting.


----------



## vikingcape

Maybe the camera angle but the lower doors the knobs are slightly higher on the left doors? Like I said could be te camera angle


----------



## CFrye

It's painted? The 'feet' are solid on the side?


----------



## BentheViking

Typically I'd mount the upper knobs lower and the lower knobs higher. other than that I really like the piece


----------



## renners

Thank you guys, it's passed the test.
Doing the images at the moment for a website. This piece is in my kitchen but I never got round to glazing it, so I comped in the glass in photoshop. Just wanted to check it looked right.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well either way, I sure like that piece. My wife likes painted furniture. It's probably because, in her mind, she can change the color as often as she wants


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice renners. Pretty tricky with the computer ;-)


----------



## byerbyer

Sharp looking piece


----------



## renners

or is that Red can change the color as often she wants…?

Quiet here at the moment, went to look at a job yesterday, 6 door closet, hope it comes in.

Using this quiet time to get a website done. I'll post a preview of it here first for my furniture making brethren and sistren.


----------



## TechRedneck

At least the top isn't painted.


----------



## lanwater

Mine too likes painted furniture…


----------



## BentheViking

Everything in our house is white or black paint. Nothing wood grained (other than the floor) in the entire house. Kinda ironic though for much of the woodwork in our house I'd agree that white works better.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I've only actually painted one piece of furniture I've made; our daughters dresser is white. I've painted our kitchen cabinets an crappy oak express furniture for my wife's use. I'm not going to admit how many times I've painted our kids different colors in 8 years. 
I just keep telling her it would be a shame to cover all these beautiful hardwoods I have access to….lol.


----------



## vikingcape

Before I go on I think you did a great job on that piece renners.

Doing a changing table now for our soon to be born twins. The little wife wants to paint it white…..sigh. I went to the sawyer I go to to get wood for painting and he gave me a fantastic deal on white oak. I think my wife saw how depressed it was making me so she suggested I make a side table to match the one I just made for her side of the couch. Great success! So I made the top of the changing table out of it, the rest will be plywood.

If I'm painting something, it's not going to be something nice wood wise. That's what plywood is for


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^hehehe. It doesn't break my heart to paint pine or poplar though.


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## vikingcape

Oh I don't know red, sometimes pine has that nice grain that works so well for things, if you get the nice stuff. And some of that poplar with all the different rainbow effect on it is beautiful. (Probably because that's what I can afford now).

My brother works in HVAC and was on a jobsite. They had this old door they were going to throw out that was thick and heavy, covered in white paint. He took it home and dismantled it and planed it down and it turned out to be thick wavy grained cherry. We should get all get in a line, like the movie Airplane, to smack the person who thought that was a good idea, and have the punishments get progressively worse. I guess that's just the viking anger showing


----------



## lightcs1776

I've recently had cherry cabinets installed in the kitchen. The company I dealt with said it was rare to find someone who didn't want want the wood painted. They were quire thrilled to find a customer who appreciated real wood. It simply can't understand why someone would cover beautiful wood.


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## renners

Paint is like anything, it goes in and out of style. That painted dresser with the oak top was a knock off hybrid of a popular but exclusive design that was around during the boom time. I like it because at the time I made it the finances wouldn't stretch to solid oak or anything else solid. Full retail would be $3400. I made the base out of 1" laminated pine - €80 and a 16' 9×2 red deal, (do you use that name for scandinavian pine?) the rest of it was made out of offcuts, including the crown left over from a wardrobe and bits of MDF for shelves. The top was free - a door for a wardrobe that got rejected by my fil because of a cup. The height of the hutch was determined by the banana hanger (I wanted that to fit underneath) and the drawers are all locked rabbets on wood slides. The t&g back is 1/4 mdf routed with a v bit cutter. The nicest feature of it is the drawers will fit an A4 sheet and you can just pull them out really easily to bring over to the table.

If anyone wants to take a sneak peek at the website, (sorry I don't how to link but you copy and paste this in your browser)
www.customfurnitureandwoodwork.my14daytrial.ie 
let me know what you think, need to add a few pics and some of the words need changing. But it's nearly there.


----------



## 111

Looking good so far!


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## CL810

LJFKAR - WOW! Your homepage just knocked me out. The photos are great. I only had one problem which was the gallery page. The first 5 rows of pics showed up completely but the 6th row only the top half of the pics were displayed.

The only suggestion I have is that the picture of you should be on par with the photos of the home page. I suggest you consider a picture discussing some plans with a client or clients. Or discussing a finished project with some smiling clients. Or both!

Good Luck!! Man those pics are great!


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## DanKrager

I agree, Cl810. LJFKAR did a nice job on the website! Outstanding. I like your suggestion about getting a better quality picture of himself (I should talk!) and one talking with a client would be supreme. It's good to see quality work going on.
DanK


----------



## renners

Thanks CL. The photo's got a going over in Photoshop. The last job I had before going carpenter was an image retoucher. I was beaming all day pushing the mouse around.

I've got a blog at the moment which the site is a part of, I wanted to get this up and running and then keep the blog updated about whether this helps business or not.


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## DanKrager

"going carpenter" ???? We don't "go carpenter"! We are snooty woodworkers. So there. LOL
DanK


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## Pezking7p

Renners, I had the same problem as Wilson on the gallery page. Also, I feel like your "about" page should be titled "how commissioned pieces work" or some such title, and the about page should be about you and your shop and the types of work you do. Just my .02. Visually it is very stunning and well put together.

Ok. Given that I have a wedding at my house in May, I think kitchen cabinets/remodel are being postponed. So I'm free to make furniture until then! I need to start small, I'm thinking living room furniture…any ideas for someone who really likes A&C and maybe a little Asian flair?


----------



## lysdexic

Pez,

Have ever checked Thos Moser?


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## Pezking7p

Lysdexic, that is EXACTLY what I had in mind. Thank you so much.

Why must. My wife to be hate oak so much? Guess I'll have to stick to cherry?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Pez, A&C isn't limited to oak. It looks good in mahogany, walnut and even maple if done right. I find this site inspiring:
http://www.stickley.com/

Renners- Well done. The site looks very professional.


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## BentheViking

that is an awesome coffee table


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## vikingcape

Renners great job on the website. You really have a professional looking outlook and feel there. I think it should do well for you. I know one Irish guy who owns a fishing vessel that docks up near my families boats, I'll recommend you (of course he lives in New Jersey, but if he makes it home sometime….....)

Arts and crafts furniture never really does it for me for some reason. I appreciate it for what it is, but for some reason I don't have any inclination to want to make it (maybe because I'm not good enough yet). It seems like every article that comes out in fine woodworking or the like is the new Arts and Crafts hot dog stand or something. Although I read it to get ideas; I don't really have the want to try it. That's just me I guess


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## CL810

Kaleb, its not just you.


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## BigRedKnothead

Ya, it does seem A&C is trendy of late. I liked A&C as far back as high school when I didn't even know what it was called. I made a lot of A&C stuff for our living area, and just when I wanted to switch it up, I started getting commissions. And what did they want? Something like the piece they saw at my house

What I do appreciate about styles like A&C, Greene & Greene, Shaker, as opposed to Victorian or some sort, is the timeless nature. It is not so overly ornate or faddy that your gonna want to replace it in ten years.


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## renners

Just bookmarked that Stickley site. You might have converted me.


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## jmartel

No worries. Some people really like Queen Anne furniture, which I this is hideous. I personally love the clean lines of A&C stuff.


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## vikingcape

Just for the record I would never hate on people or the handwork of others that make this. I think it's a beautiful representation of woodworking, it's just not for me.

I don't know that I prescribe to any particular style as of yet. I am trying to read more and more about those things but I don't know. Of course I've only been woodworking a little over a year so who knows where I'll be in another. By then I'll probably be smashing a cinder block onto a tree trunk and screaming at it to become a table or something.


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## BigRedKnothead

Kaleb- never took you for a hater We're allowed to have our preferences. Being able to appreciate others work even if it's not your taste is a sign of maturity.

Renners- good stuff ehh? The only company of the Stickley brothers that survived. I especially like the Factory tour slideshow where this quote resides:

"The modern trouble is not the use of machinery but the abuse of it." Gustav Stickley said that way back in 1909. Lots of people think older Stickley Furniture was built without the use of machinery. But that was not the case. "Every scientific method possible is used to make a thoroughly modern product", echoed Gustav's brother, Leopold.

Darrell Peart's site is one of my favs as well. 
http://furnituremaker.com/

I so wanna make this bench, but I have no where to put it in my house.


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## theoldfart

Red, go ahead and make it. We're doing a cross country trip in the fall to celebrate retirement. I'm more than willing to pick it up on the way by, maybe check out the shop too!


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## WhoMe

Red - hey that stuff does grow on trees. We have some nice figured African Mahogany just like that at work. I really like that stuff better than the boring old Honduran mahogany. Some of that AM wood has awesome lines in it.

Thanks for the Moser and Stickley links. Bookmarked them and will visit them in the future.


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## renners

I like that bench but think it's rather let down by the weight of the seat rails. The rest of it is quite elegant and then you get to those massive timbers…
This is only my opinion of course.


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## Slyy

I just saw some stickley furniture in one of the performance halls at my wife university she teaches at. I'll have to take pictures some time. Have some benches, dressers, lamps and framed mirrors. The mirror frame I find ABSOLUTLEY gorgeous, I can only dream of the day my skills reach the point that I could emmulate those frames!


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## Hammerthumb

Red - that is an awesome project for you. Should give you a little challenge! I do believe WhoMe is right and it is African Mahogany. Thats what I made my tool chest out of. Nice stuff to work with.


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## BigRedKnothead

Yessir. The mahogany is spectacular, but I'm not sure I'd spring for it. Thought about making it out of cherry or walnut. Sorry if it disappoints

Renners- I agree to an extent. But I get lost in the back/spindles.


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## Hammerthumb

Too bad your not a little closer Red. I still have about 150bdf out of 900 I bought a few years ago for $2 bdf.


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## renners

I'm thinking cloud lift…
Maybe they were going to put a cloud lift on it but forgot.
(Or I could have my makers mixed up).


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## yuridichesky

Hey furniture-makers pros, I need your advise.

I'm in early stage of building chest (under-bench tools storage) featuring full extension drawers. Shop-made ones.

Here's the prototype:









See more details here: Full extension drawers

What do you think?


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## Hammerthumb

Those look good and are unusual. Do you know how much weight they will hold? What will you be storing in the drawers. Make sure they can hold the weight.


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## yuridichesky

Paul, there will be 4 drawers: three upper ones will hold about 10 lbm max, but the last one will contain my planes, and I estimate it to be 15 lbm or so. Wooden runner's cross-section is about 3/4"x3/4". I think I'll need to make more massive runners for lower drawer.


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## Hammerthumb

I think you might be right about the bottom plane drawer. Would not want to see it bind up on you because of the weight.


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## BigRedKnothead

Cool Yuri. I bet that design will get airframer thinking.

If they work…Great!. The only thing I can say is I would be making that wood runner out of some tough/hard wood. I have used aluminum track on side sliding shop cabinet doors and been very happy:


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## BigRedKnothead

Cool Yuri. I bet that design will get airframer thinking.

If they work…Great!. The only thing I can say is I would be making that wood runner out of some tough/hard wood. I have used aluminum track on side sliding shop cabinet doors and been very happy:


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## yuridichesky

Red, thanks.

Yes, I'm going to use either oak or beech for the runners. Any idea which one is better for this application?


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## BigRedKnothead

Bizarre double post. I know I only typed that once.


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## DanKrager

Yuri, I like the idea and have done something like this entirely in wood. I used poplar because of it's extreme durability to abrasion. A piece of poplar drawer side will cut a slot in any other wood species rather quickly (in heirloom terms) and not show signs of wear doing it. 
In my drawer application the floating wood piece was about 3" wide, so strength concerns were limited to how much overlap remained at full extension. It could be as much as half the drawer length which is quite strong. The floater rode in a sliding dovetail slot on the drawer side, and had a dovetail slot of its own on center to engage the tail piece on the case, which was about 1 1/4" wide. The net result is that the "mechanism" took up about the same amount of space as a commercial metal one, about 1/2". Looking back, that could have been eliminated by putting the tail on the floater piece, making it even stronger, and the dovetail dado in the case. One could even machine a single piece that looks like a butterfly key in cross section and let it float in dovetail dadoes in drawer side and case.
Just some thoughts before TOF engineers it right.
DanK


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## yuridichesky

Dan, thank you for input. I've been thinking about all-in-wood sliding dovetails options, but it is soft pine I'm doing the project with. Plus my drawers (except for the lower one) are only about 2-1/2" high, so I consider aluminum inserts as "local reinforcement of softwood". The runners gonna be from some hardwood.


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## DanKrager

You could make a slider assembly of two aluminum strips bolted together top to top running in the T slots…
DanK


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## yuridichesky

Yes, Dan, this gonna work too.


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## JohnnyStrawberry

At last.
Done. =)
I've just installed our new kitchen cabinets.
I'd started the build 4 months ago…
No metal, no glue as usual.
The boss was very pleased. ))))
I'll post'em as a project later. I'm busy with the shop move for the rest of this month…
A few details though. 164 pegged M&T, ~50feet sliding dovetail, 28 frame&panel, 6 drawers (pegged HBDT).
30mm steamed black locust top (pegged dowels - see here ), walnut framed doors, walnut paneled sides. Cherry for side frames, steamed burly red willow for front & back panels and shelves, ash for drawer sides and the rest.


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## BigRedKnothead

Excellent work Johnny. It all has a very European/custom feel. I especially like the range.


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## b2rtch

Yuri, I think that the weight of the drawers in addition of what is inside will make their operation very difficult.
I would go with ball bearing slides, you will love them and you will keep them for life.
HF used to carry some inexpensive one by they no longer do.
The other day I saw 18" ball bearing slide for $2.00 each!!


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## CL810

Great work Johnny!


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## jmartel

Bert, where did you see that price for the slides?


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## vikingcape

Johnny amazing work! That should really make you guys happy. Can't wait to read about the build


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## j1212t

That is outstanding Johnny, I applaude you kind Sir. I am building our first kitchen currently. I hope in our 5th or 8th kitchen i will reach this level of craftsmanship! Outstanding work indeed!


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## yuridichesky

Bert, my problem is that I don't have ball-bearing full-extension slides available around. Plus depth of my chest (i.e. length of the slides) is a little bit shorter than 16" - note to self: stick to standard hardware dimensions when designing your stuff - I just can't find anything close to it.


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## yuridichesky

Johnny, this kitchen set is awesome!


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## renners

Well done Johnny, must be a big relief to get that one put to bed.


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## JohnnyStrawberry

Thank YOU guys for the kind words. I appreciate'em.
Huge relief, indeed. But it'll probably be dwarfed by the relief of having the new workshop place by the end of the month…
I'll try to have shared the details of the kitchen (design/build) by then.


----------



## john2005

Johnny that is a very impressive kitchen. Hats off to you buddy.


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## b2rtch

jmartel, the slides were in a surplus store here in SLC Utah.
http://www.npsstore.com/AboutUs.asp
They had several boxes full of them of different sizes, all priced for $2.00.
Not having an immediate use for them and having already several of them at home, I did not buy any.


----------



## byerbyer

It's been a bit quiet on here, so here's a couple progress pictures of a crib I'm building for my for some friends of mine.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Looks like walnut with maple. Are the spinles round? Can't tell from the picture.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Jason. Keep us posted.

It has been quieter around here when I don't have a furniture build going
I've been making some tools (set of screwdrivers currently) and doing a bunch of little stuff around my shop. Also reading some furniture design books and kicking around ideas for this years projects.

What's everyone else been working on?


----------



## byerbyer

Paul - The spindles are poplar dowels and are in the process of getting painted white this weekend/next. The frame is walnut and will be getting a nice hand rubbed oil finish.


----------



## vikingcape

Sigh…....we just got ours from….....china…..... Yours looks great however. Wish I could've done that


----------



## ToddJB

Sigh…….we just got ours from……..china……..

Ha, we did too, but had I put the time and effort that Jason is putting into this one I would have been a lot more pissed when I found my son taking huge gouges out of the side of it with his teeth.

He wouldn't do well in prison.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Funny way to distress wood!


----------



## CFrye

Jason, that's going to be gorgeous. Todd does have a point, Kaleb.


----------



## byerbyer

Thanks for the kind words. I'll post it as a project once it's finished… in a few months.


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## BigRedKnothead

Lookin' forward to it Jason.

We had cheapy cribs too. We went through a couple darn things. The worst was one day when our daughter got her poopy diaper off after a nap. She was quiet about it, but we noticed a smell throughout the house. Yes, she smeared poo all over her crib. Oh….it was terrible. I took the darn thing to the carwash….and still couldn't get rid of the smell.

Moral: Jason, wise choice not using turned/ribbed spindles. It will clean easier.
Oh, and raising girls is grosser than raising boys


----------



## CL810

When our kids were little tots (1 boy, 1 girl) someone said to me "I'd take 3 boys over 1 girl." After the middle school/high school years I realized what they were talking about.


----------



## BentheViking

+1 for the china crib. Baby hasn't graduated yet from the mini crib in the bedroom to using the regular crib, but with all the other crap I have going on i would never had had the time to actually make a crib.


----------



## john2005

Ha funny you bring up the Chinese cribs. We looked long and hard, finally found one made in brazil. Well to me that was better than china. Wen it arrived it said "made in china" all over. Sucker


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Oh, I kinda wish I made one for our kids. But we started pretty young but today's standards. I wouldn't have had a clue what I was building back then. Maybe I'll make my grandchildren a crib one day.


----------



## ShaneA

I made the one my daughter used. Just took it apart the other day to replace it with a twin bed I made. I need to find a new home for it. Ironically, that will probably be a problem.


----------



## CFrye

Stumbled upon this today. Free digital issue of Feb 2014 Popular Woodworking magazine. May have been posted here already. Thought it was worth sharing. It contains a really good article (I thought) on 4 Ways to Make a Mortise. AND the plans to make Roy Underhill's nail cabinet, which is what I was looking for.


----------



## DaddyZ

Thanks Candy that nail cabinet is very Cool


----------



## lysdexic

Candy - yep that nail cabinet is on the list of the other million things I want to build.


----------



## CFrye

I thought so too DaddyZ! For some reason it appears very doable. Not intimidating at all. I don't know why.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That is a pretty good issue Candy.

I've narrowed my woodworking subscriptions to Popular Woodworking and Fine Woodworking. Used to get a couple more.

A few years back Fine Woodworking seemed over my head. Stuff I'd never be able to do. Nowadays some of that level of work feels more obtainable. I've started to flip through some of my FWW back issues. I find as I gain experience and skill, I pick up different things by rereading.

The only time FWW hurts is renewal time. It's pricey. But I'm sure some of that goes to the very high quality contributors, and drastically less advertising in the magazines.


----------



## byerbyer

Thanks Candy, looks like some good stuff in there. I haven't taken Poplar Woodworking yet, but I like Christopher Schwarz's writing style so I might have to add it to my collection. I've been lucky received Fine Woodworking as a gift for the foreseeable future, so I supplement that subscription with the online membership. I've gleaned a ton of information from the online subscription in the last year…


----------



## CL810

What is American Woodworker like?


----------



## BentheViking

Thanks for the share Candy. I subscribed to PWW for two years, but dropped it when my subscription was up. I found that most of what they covered was too fancy for me. Currently, I only get Wood sent. I've only gotten a few issues so far, but do like it better than PWW so far. I have always like FWW, but its always just been so expensive so I rarely get it. I hate that most of the woodworking magazines are usually only every other month.


----------



## CFrye

You all are welcome. Glad to be able to contribute!


----------



## lateralus819

Had this 12"x12" piece extra, couldn't figure out what it should be. THen tada!










My shop helper. This kid loves being in the shop with me, LOVES to vacuum for some reason lol, loves to use a drill, and hand planes. I handed him this #5 jack, and he says "I know how to use it!"


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## BigRedKnothead

Clayton- I've never tried American Woodworker. I have had Woodsmith, Wood, and Woodworkers Journal at various times. Over time I was less interested in their stuff.

Other news, I've spent a good 8-10 hours of shop time making a set of screwdrivers recently. Ya….only a hobbyist could justify that. Oh well. It's been a learning experience. No way around abrasives to smooth the custom handles. And I'm pretty sure I gave myself a stinkin sinus infection with all the sanding. I need to be more diligent about wearing a mask whilst using abrasives.


----------



## lateralus819

I'm the same Red, specifically ROS. I have a working dust collection, it's all piped, i just never remember to use it.

I like making shop tools. I made a mallet last week. I want to make a couple more planes, probably even another jointer. This one will be for use though lol.


----------



## Hammerthumb

As I have become allergic to some of the exotic species I use, I have started to wear a respirator when milling or sanding. Makes a big difference at the end of the day. I am use to it now. Doesn't bother me at all.


----------



## CFrye

Lateralus that is a great little shop helper you have there! And a nice table too.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Almost missed the table Lateralus. Very nice. What are the species? Can't tell on my phone.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, Lateralus and I posted at the same times so I almost missed it. That finish looks awesome too. I see the danish oil can. Is that all you used?

I enjoy having my kiddos in my shop too. They have their own little hand tools they can use.

Paul- I do just fine, except when sanding. I don't like wearing a mask, but I'll have to get used to it. Another reason I like hand tools


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yep, Doc chewed my butt about wearing a dust mask while creating dust in the shop. It's always worse in the winter when I can't open the garage door. Big Pimpin:








-
I also ordered a washable electrostatic filter for my overhead dust filter.


----------



## CFrye

Red, how long between washings on the overhead filter?and how difficult was it to find a mask you could seal over/around your beard? Not asking for myself.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice pic Red. Too funny Candy! (edit - can't spell)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Candy- LOL. Shoot, I don't know if seals that great. Just a cheezy one a guy from work gave me. Good enough though. I can tell the difference today. 
And I don't have the new washable filter yet, so we'll see. I used to blow the old one off with compress air outside. But he filters were like $30, and they didn't hold up long. Hoping the upgrade will be nicer, and thus more often cleaned.

Here's what I've been up to folks. A furniture maker….making his tools…..to make more furniture.


----------



## renners

Do you use a vac on your sanders Red?


----------



## byerbyer

I use a washable Dust Bee Gone mask it doesn't seal around my beard any better than a standard dust mask, but it's much more comfortable to wear for extended periods of time. It's pricier than a regular dust mask, but the added comfort means I'll actually wear the dang thing, so it was worth the investment to me. I've got a 3M mask similar to Red's I use for spraying lacquer and poly.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Jason, that might be a better option. The big masks get uncomfortable after a while

Renners- I try to when I using the ROS. But with the screwdrivers I just made, I was sanding them on my drill press, like one would with a lathe. Even hand sanding can get to my sensitive sinuses.

That right! I'm sensitive ya know.


----------



## lateralus819

Sorry about the late reply.

The table top is sapele with hints of pommelle here and there. Birdseye/figured maple BB ends. Curly maple aprons, Mahogany legs with some walnut pins.

Finished with two coats of regular danish oil. LOVE that stuff, I always use either that, or minwax tungoil.

I top coated the table with Poly. Learned a HUGE lesson on that, always fill the grain on porous woods lol. Sanded the whole top down, and used semi gloss instead.


----------



## renners

Ah, I can see how that would scatter dust everywhere. Lot of people are sensitive to walnut dust. Nice handles btw,


----------



## SouthpawCA

Has anyone heard of the Dust-T tee shirt? I got one for Christmas and it works pretty darn good. It's sorta made like a big turtle neck that you roll up or down when needed. It has a double panel of material that covers your nose and mouth with loops that go over your ears to keep it up. I usually forget to put on a dust mask because "I'm only doing a little sanding". At least with this I can quickly roll it up when needed.


----------



## TechRedneck

Old pic of the shop

Before I put in a DC system with a cyclone I built a Downdraft table with cheap plywood, an old furnace fan and two sets of filters. This is where I do all my sanding. It has a timer and power outlet for ROS. It pulls double duty as an out feed table.

This was one of the first pieces of shop gear I built. Now I have an overhead hose connected to the DC system that hooks up to the ROS, the downdraft table catches the remainder of the fines. I don't sand as much now that I have discovered how to tune/sharpen/use handplanes and scrapers. I think the whole thing was less than $85 in parts.. been a while.


----------



## lysdexic

Leave it to Mike to stay on topic.

Great pic. Your shop looks awfully clean!


----------



## TechRedneck

I have to chime in once in a while and get this thread moving.

I have new pics but for some reason my new droid phone has issues with this old laptop. I try to stay off LJ's during the day because somehow I tend to loose productivity. Would not care as much but I own the company and it is my money and time.

Dealing with dust just brings out the engineer in me. I like a clean shop, it does get messy during a project but cleaning up helps get my mind back on track. Usually after I make some stupid mistake or grab a cold one out of the shop fridge.


----------



## renners

How do you hold down a cabriole leg to work on it?
Great tip on one of Charles Neill's videos.


----------



## BentheViking

Don I don't remember where I saw the Dust-T but it was some special on TV. I'd totally forgotten about it until you mentioned it. Does it do a good job?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, keep her moving Mike. I'm still tricking out stuff in my shop. Rest assured I'll be another furniture building binge soon enough.

Btw, I remember reading awhile back about how much money and time fantasy football is costing big companies. I bet LJs has had it's own small impact on the productivity of folks at their jobs.


----------



## BentheViking

Lol BRK…I gotta admit that I have gone to LJ while im at work, but only rarely or briefly, unless I can figure out a way it relates to work. Since my company has lumber in the name, lumberjocks is surprisingly unblocked so I could peruse as much as I wanted to, but usually I'm just too busy.


----------



## renners

^Work holding irregular shaped legs. I thought this was so good I'd have to share it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ Very clever Renners.

Another post about how hand tools have changed my work habits. Whenever I have more than a couple tenons to make, I still cut them with a dado stack. It's just too quick and easy. 
Now, I don't have a chop-saw/RAS in my shop, so during furniture builds I used to use a crosscut sled to cut everything to length. I tried to cut everything I could think of before I changed to the dado stack. If I forgot something, I would get ticked off and change the dado blade back and forth. Waste of time.
Long way to say….









I just use a handsaw now. It doesn't take much longer. Once everything's ripped, I can just leave the dado stack in the tablesaw. 
Plus, when you get darn good with a hand saw…..it's kinda fun


----------



## ToddJB

Red, do you get dead on 90s in both directions with your handsaw that are clean enough that they do not need smoothed? I need to both work on technique and sharpening - apparently.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Todd, if I mark the piece both ways with a pencil, I get pretty darn close to 90 degrees both ways. Takes practice. Keep in mind this will be the end of a tenon, so it really doesn't matter how great the cut looks. Regular tenons will be hidden. Through tenons, like in this case, are intentionally cut long and then planed. And there's no such thing as a saw the creates a finished surface, hand or power.

Now if the cut needs to be dead nuts 90….and look good, that's where a shooting board comes in. The power tool and hand tool approaches often overlap with these tasks. Even when I used a table saw exclusively, I still needed a block plane (or sanding block in the dark ages) to achieve furniture quality joints.

Whether I'm sawing by hand or power, I cut everything a bit oversized, then planed to final size. Cuts back on the sanding too.


----------



## ToddJB

That's a nifty set up. Good to know.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Red, you make a very good instructor. I would have taken me 3 pages to make that statement. Told you before I'm long winded.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^hehehe. Thanks Paul. I had to edit and think about my answer a bit. Just trying to help. My wife says I missed my calling in teaching.

Now, when it comes to theology or apologetics, like I studied in college….I struggle with brevity. Lol


----------



## DanKrager

I see you used that LN dust collector before taking this nice, clean shot. I like your shooter setup.
How do you hold that plane in use? The handle, 'scuse me, tote would be a real knucklebuster.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

'Jus grab the hump and push!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I just hold it by the hump on the side like Kev said.

Usually I don't complain about Lie Nielsen's prices because making extremely high quality tools in our country is not cheap. However, 60 bones for the "hot dog" attachment seems more than most will pay for a small, easily made device:








-
I've had the notion to make my own, like this:









Of course, smarter woodworkers than I have already done this

Derek's A Hotdog for the LV LAJ Blog
I like Derek's idea for a friction fit, so as not to mar the plane with a set screw.


----------



## renners

That could be the only hotdog a SawStop will cut through.
Would look good in walnut burl.


----------



## lateralus819

Hows the track work with that plane Red? Didn't think a track was possible on a non-squared bodied plane.


----------



## lysdexic

Also note the replacement tote on Derek's Veritas LAJ. I am thinking more and more about doing that.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Darn it Renners. Just used up all my burly walnut

Lat- the track is really just a groove. As long as the side of the plane is square to sole it work. Just make a groove that is snug to the sole and hump on the side. Little paraffin wax in the track helps. 








There's all sorts of different takes on shooting boards out there.


----------



## TechRedneck

I made the Paul Sellers shooting board. Love the thing.

I had trouble getting the ones you screw together dead nuts accurate. This one, if carefully built, just works great.

Link to the video HERE


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Yep. That's a good one Mike. Mine is mostly laminations of baltic birch ply, but the 45 degree cleat is screwed for now.

Happy Friday. Here's an excellent series of Sam Maloof videos if ya'll get time.

Exhibition: Sam Maloof


----------



## CFrye

Finally took the time to watch the shooting board video. It's been on the Watch Later pile for a while. Thanks for the nudge Mike. I am amazed he built it out of pine and said it will last a long time. After that I settled in for the Maloof video. Glanced at the length and made myself comfy in the recliner. The first one lasted one minute not one hour! LOL watching him use the band saw to carve the chair arm is a treat! Will be watching more. Thanks Red!


----------



## byerbyer

Here's a random furniture design question. I've been dreaming up a design for a sofa/chaise lounge piece to build for my main floor living room. Anyone ever seen something like this but basically with just the cushions being upholstered?


----------



## CFrye

Jason, mission style is the first thing that popped into my thoughts. 
Something like this








And this









Edit picture swap


----------



## CFrye

Not exactly the same style but I think you catch my drift.


----------



## jmartel

Candy, that first sofa is awesome looking. Thanks for posting it.


----------



## mds2

Anyone here have experience pouring resin really thick? Like 9" thick. I'm working on a table concept.


----------



## byerbyer

That's along the lines I was picturing too, Candy. Thanks


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jason- I'm glad yo brought that up. I've thought a lot about those sort of sofas…. so I'll give you me whole schpeel. Brace yourself Fanny.

- In the OP you can see I have some leather furniture mart sofas. I'm in my 30's and they are my 2nd set. They are…..ok. The leather is decent, the frames are metal and other crap. Most upholsterers won't even mess with this sort. In short, they are wasteful, throw-away furniture. I bought them before I'd make a couple Morris chairs….which got me thinkin.

- Essentially the nice A&C sofa Candy posted above is Morris chair on steroids. Post and rail, mortise and tenon construction. The longer rails need to be thicker and reinforced of course.

- I would probably make one in A&C to match my living room, but you don't have to. With post and rail you can do modern, Greene & Greene…whatever. Check this out:








You get the idea. Could easily be made into a soft.

- Comfort? Yes it won't recline like a lazy boy. I've found with my morris chair that an ottoman is just as comfortable. With a sofa, you could make a long ottoman, or an ottoman coffee table combo. What about the big wood arms? I've considered having the upholster make cylinder pillows like this to lay against, for lack of a better pic, like this:









- Cost? Find a small time upholster who works out of a small shop like you. You'll be glad you did. Basically the morris chair in the OP cost me $200 for leather and labor. The foam was another $100, but high quality foam will outlast the upholstery. So, if I built a couch like the one pictured above, it would have 3 cushion sets, adding up to $600. 
Basically, I could re-leather(or whatever) that darn couch every 5 years if I want. $600?? That's a third of what I paid for the darn leather furniture mart couch I'll have to throw out in five years (kids are rough).

I'm thinkin one like this….with cylinder pillows;-)








-
Ahhh…..the pics aren't fittin'...but you get the point.


----------



## Slyy

Jason, Candy, Red - thanks for tossing out this morris chair based (even loosely) couch idea! I've been trying to get ideas as to my first furniture projects and this alone has thrown a lot of interesting ideas my way!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jake- I have some friends that are getting pretty serious about having me build them a love seat like we're talking. I'm hoping they give me the go-ahead on it soon. We can all learn from it


----------



## Slyy

Sounds like a plan Red, Blog Time!
I do like the looks of that last one you posted. Nice arch on the bottom and the darker accents look like you could modify for actual draw bored pins, as opposed to covered screw holes. Add an extra touch of skill and class, even if a non-wood person might have no idea either way.


----------



## BentheViking

Call me crazy, but I'm not a huge fan of wooden or metal couches/sofas. Just don't look as comfortable. could be a mental thing (maybe I'm mental???) who knows


----------



## jmartel

Man, I did not need to see those A&C sofas. I like my sofa. It's comfy as hell, and my wife got it on super low clearance since it's basically just the ends of a sectional put together. But damn if those sofas aren't awesome.


----------



## Slyy

A project on my list is also a sheet music cabinet for my wife (she's a flute player professionally). This is what I'm replacing a cheap ikea-lite bookcase:









I've been inspired by several versions of this stickley style sheet music cabinet:









And it's an absolute pipe dream at the moment, but I have seen several LJ versions of Sam Maloof inspired music stands, I have to say these are absolutely gorgeous:


----------



## BigRedKnothead

There ya go Jake. That Stickley music cabinet would be a good project. You could forego the through tenons if they intimidate you.

Ben- I agree a lot of the furniture mart couches can be pretty comfortable…..til the cheap foam cushions break down in a few years. But as I said, having a morris chair changed my mind about how comfortable a wood framed couch or chair could be…..give or take a couple pillows. And being a furniture maker, how practical they are. Cushions are the easiest and cheapest thing to replace or reupholster.

Ohh….here's a modern one I like:









Figured out a better way to do the pics.


----------



## CFrye

Jake, that music cabinet is beautiful and that stand is … WOW! Looked it up 

25 hours! After doing several of them. 
Nifty built-in end table on that couch, Red.


----------



## Slyy

Yeah candy, that thing's unbelievably stunning IMO. My wife asked if I could make her one, I told if I started now I'd be done in about 12 years. One day maybe! She also said I know lots of musicians that would commission something like that with me. My response again was it'd take me so long to make one, if I charged by the hour it'd cost about $15,000!!!!


----------



## CFrye

I know if I tried to make one Jake I could supplement my income by selling hard wood kindling! 
Do you have any details on the Joplin tool sale?


----------



## vikingcape

WOW! That music stand is amazing! As a professional musician and a music teacher, I might have to give that a go when I get a little better at wood working in 250 years. Thanks for showing that


----------



## Pezking7p

Started an end table based on a Thos. A Moser piece that I think lysdexic suggested a couple weeks ago. Picked up some cherry this morning and got to milling. Things I learned or did for the first time:

-milling short lumber is incredibly easy
-my crosscut sled is amazing. I also had to make a miter block that I can clamp to my sled. 
-my first panel glue up

I'm really excited to be making my first piece of furniture. Tomorrow I need to make some kind of taper jig for the legs. Any suggestions?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

There are all sorts of ideas for tapering jigs. Most are on the tablesaw, like this one.

I admit, I've neither made nor used one. I just cut the near the line on the bandsaw, then either power jointer and/or hand plane to the line. Sometimes one must resist jig-itus.

Excited for your build man!


----------



## Pezking7p

Thanks for the link, Red.I'm surprised at how quickly this is coming together. Just need some warm weather for finishing.


----------



## renners

Pez, for a first project, this is probably more ambitious than most would go for, but it's a really good idea to push yourself into the unknown. You'll thank yourself for it on the next build. Looks like you're doing fine so far.


----------



## ksSlim

Joplin swap meet-8 feb 2014
Jack Lawton Webb Convention Center
5309 S. Range Line, Joplin Mo.
10 am to 2 pm.

sponsors M-WTCA & SWTCA.


----------



## Pezking7p

Watching Paul Sellers makes me feel funny inside. Like maybe I should quit my job, sell all my power tools, and just live in communion with the trees and a stanley #4.


----------



## CFrye

Thanks for the info ksSlim! 
Looking forward to seeing the finished end table Pez. 
Did an goffy experiment yesterday. Timed myself cutting two 1/2"x 2" through mortises in 1 1/2" red oak. The first one by hand took me an hour. The second I pre drilled 1/2" holes on the drill press and cleaned it up with chisel took me 20 min. 
I know I can do better (and faster) with more practice. Which method do you all use and why do you prefer it?


----------



## theoldfart

Bit brace, chisel then corner chisel.


----------



## theoldfart

Candy, here is a bit more detail from the chairs I made for my granddaughter. I used a breast drill with a depth stop since the work is small, a drill guide and a mortise chisel:









After laying out my mortise I attached the guide and drilled out at the waste


















Then used the mortise chisel to square the ends and a bench chisel to clean the sides









And the completed project









For my bench build I am using a bit brace and a homemade guide since the mortises are substantially bigger.
Hope this helps


----------



## byerbyer

Red - I dig the modern couch you found there… My sofa build will be a ways down the road as I have a very nice set of Lazy-boy furniture that's still like new. It's only problem is it too darn big for my living room! It's destined for the basement man-cave area, once I get around to finishing the basement (that's been on the to-do list since I bought the house.)

I spent yesterday at a local-ish estate sale trying to score some tools on the cheap, but unfortunately everything I was interested in went for like new prices (or above in the case of all the clamps.)


----------



## Pezking7p

I've given up on trying to find deals on non-power tools. Ebay prices take a lot of time and energy to beat.


----------



## byerbyer

There was a Delta 2000 contractor saw that went for almost $500, a Delta 12-1/2" planer went for $240 (same model can be had a the local truevalue for $225), and a 6" Craftsman jointer (2 blade style) went for over $200. Craziness if you as me.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Candy, before I had a mortising machine I used to drill a series of holes with the drill press or a drill, then chop. Even cheaper benchtop mortising machines work so well it tough to get away from.

I have chopped mortises completely by hand, but I can't say I enjoyed it.

Jason- ya, those prices are a waste of time. Bummer.


----------



## ScomelBasses

I'm starting to move away from traditional mortise and tenon to loose tenon joinery. I just designed and built a horizontal routing fixture that will easily and accurately allow mortises to be cut in both work pieces. I find this type of joinery to be just as strong if not stronger than the traditional style and with the machine I made makes it's so much easier. I'm really looking forward to my next projects.


----------



## Pezking7p

Chopped my first mortise today. I didn't think it was horrible but I realize now why everyone uses marking gauges. Glad I made a practice run! Red, how hard is it to keep all your hollow chisels sharp?

I cut the tenon on the table saw and I can't say I loved this technique, but it did seem to work. I think a nice back saw is in my future.


----------



## DubyaB

Scomel, do you have any pictures of your router set up?


----------



## ScomelBasses

DubyaB, I'll post some pics and description tomorrow.


----------



## tool_junkie

First time posting here on this thread and I must say that there is a wealth of information hidden here. I really like all the "work in progress" and "inspiration project" pictures. The modern couch picture Red posted got me thinking into building a couch of my own. The only problem is, my list of project is ever increasing!

I have been thinking about building upholstered chaise lounge chairs for our living room in modern style. Does anyone have ideas or pictures of how to build one? The ones at furniture store seem very flimsy and are over priced.

Red: What part of Iowa are you from? I am in Cedar Rapids area.

Looking forward to learn new techniques and ideas from this thread!


----------



## ScomelBasses

Here's my project for my horizontal router fixture for M&T joints.


----------



## pintodeluxe

Can Red or anyone knowledgeable about shop made wooden drawer slides post some ideas for me?
I have a little refreshment table I am making with a 9" deep drawer opening (almost not worth having a drawer in retrospect).



















I thought I might use a metal undermount slide, but the shortest I can find is 10". Does anybody like undermount dovetail-way wooden slides, or do you prefer side hung?

Or do you know of anyone that sells a metal undermount slide that is 8-9" long?


----------



## ScomelBasses

I recently built a sideboard table and made center mount dovetail slides like what you show. It's very simple to do. I made them out of maple and they work great. The table has 6 drawers and all work smoothly.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Scomel- looks a little involved, but a nice setup for loose tenons. I especially like to use loose tenons if it's an angle m&t joint.

Tool junkie- I live near Council Bluffs. Are you talking about a fully upholstered chaise lounger, or wood framed with some cushions?

Pinto- You could used either. Side mounted or undermount dovetail. Usually I prefer side mount, but I would probably go with undermount for that piece. Reasoning:

- Side mount are stronger and resist downward pressure better. That why I use them on deep dresser drawers etc. But, on a wide drawers (like the one your dealing with) they will rack side to side if you don't have a snug fit. 
- Conversely, you can bust a bottom mount dovetail if you abuse it. It doesn't look like this drawer would have a heavy load. No chance of racking. Hope it helps Willy.


----------



## ScomelBasses

BigRed, it was actually very easy to make and use. If I'd had a plan I could have made it in a day I would think. As I was making it up as I went along it took a couple days. What I like about it is how simple it is to set up. Once the router is raised to where it needs to be and is locked down, it's very simple to batch out parts. With the zero start point, single stop block, and tape measure it is very quick to set the length of mortis. Now that I know the concept works I'd love to build something similar using extruded aluminum and such making it look like a machine. I doubt I ever will though


----------



## tool_junkie

Dang it Red! You are on the opposite end of the state! I was hoping you would be somewhere close by so we could meet.

For the chaise lounger, I guess I am open to both types but I think fully upholstered would look better as these would be for the living room. Any design ideas/suggestions?


----------



## CFrye

Kevin, thanks for the detail shots. I enjoyed following the chair builds. They turned out great. Red, we have looked at a mortising machine at Harbor Freight. Heard both good and bad about them. Watched Paul Sellers cut a mortise in oak ... I have a lot of practicing to do. LOL Took him less than five minutes to cut one mortise! 
Scomel thanks for the link to your router fixture.
pintodeluxe that is a nice table. Really like the wedged/pinned through tenons. The wedge appears a little on the large side (may be the camera angle).


----------



## pintodeluxe

CFrye,
Your eyes do not deceive you, the tusk wedges are pretty huge. I wanted to exaggerate the details on the table because it is such a small and otherwise plain table.


----------



## jinkyjock

Hi BigRed, faint praise indeed my man 'cos looking at your "Stuff" you sure aint no hobbyist. I have just joined Lumberjocks, recommended by my niece's hubby in Roxboro NC, after a period where I had kinda fallen out of love with woodworking/design. Looking at your & other's work on this site is getting my creative juices flowing again, will have a look at James Krenov's book "With Wakened Hands" as a kind of re-boot.
Making furniture is a life choice BigRed, not a hobby.


----------



## waho6o9

Nice detail on the through tenons PintoD.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Tool junkie- Well maybe we'll have to meet in the middle if they have another Handworks event in Amana, IA again this year. For the chaise lounger, if you want a fully upholstered one, you would just need to work hand in hand with an upholsterer. It's not too hard to make your own shell/frame. I've seen my upholsterer do it himself for his own furniture. Mostly uses plywood and poplar. 
For some reason I have visions of one of those outdoor chase loungers….except indoor. Ya know, all wood framed with cushions., kinda like a morris chair:








Obviously that one's wicker. A modern design could work in the right house;-) Anyway.

Candy- benchtop mortising machines pop up on craigslist often. Especially the Deltas. Might be something to watch for.

jinkyjock- Thanks for the encouragement and welcome to lumberjocks! I've honestly haven't read any of Krenov's books….but I really should.


----------



## david_larch

Had a nice weekend in the shop despite a few mechanical problems…nothing finished but lots of progress on a few projects. Made pieces for several plant stands and another side table. Here are some progress instagrams.


----------



## renners

I really like your logo David, very Fritz Freling, very fitting. Amazing how even that plant stand just has a look about it that says retro cool.


----------



## Pezking7p

Candy, I used Paul sellers method and it worked well, but I found myself forgetting the fine details while I was in the moment so I mean to go back and watch his video again. I'm also considering if I should buy a mortising machine or just chop by hand. At a certain point, the machines take away the craft aspect for me and turn it in to tedium. If you decide to get a mortiser I would be curious to know your thoughts.

Big Red you always come up with the best furniture porn. Thanks for that.


----------



## CFrye

I do the same thing Pez! Re-watch and learn something I missed the previous viewing. I cut more today (the drilling method). It may be faster, however I don't like the results as well as cutting by hand. Probably doing something wrong. I'll keep an eye on Craig's List, and report back.


----------



## tool_junkie

Red, I will keeps Handworks in mind. I didn't even know of it until now.

Regarding the Chaise, I think it will look good in solid wood; an elongated version of the Morris chair as you mentioned. After I posted here, I did a google search on modern indoor chaise lounge chairs and found a few pictures that I like. I will keep doing the research on it. Will also try to look for a small scale upholsterer.

Thanks!


----------



## tool_junkie

Found one that I think would be really cool to build with a higher back.


----------



## lysdexic

My new Thos Moser catalog came today. This might be the most beautiful piece of furniture that I have seen. I know that is a purely subjective statement but geez.

I recommend getting on their mailing list just to study the pieces in their portfolio. Also, on the website, each piece has a tear sheet / PDF that gives many dimensions that can get you started if you were to try to build one your self.


----------



## jmartel

That is a good looking dining case. Makes me wish I had room in my house for something like that. 1600 sqft townhouse doesn't really lend itself to room for such things.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks for the heads up Lys. Signed up for catalog.

I rarely leave my shop in disarray, but the kids wanted to go sledding….and so we went.


----------



## CL810

Signed up as well. Thanks lys.

Here's a site I just discovered today. Half Inch Shy.


----------



## ShaneA

Going to have o go back and look through that one Andrew. Dude has some good stuff.


----------



## CFrye

Signed up for Thos Moser catalog. 
That Tim Burton table is … different. I don't think I'd want one. I do think I'd like to make one though!
Thanks Lys and Cl810!


----------



## SouthpawCA

Sorry … I've been busy and haven't been on for a week.

BentheViking - Yes, the first time I heard about the DUS-T teeshirt was on some Made in USA show on TV. I thought it would be a good idea. And they really put it through it's paces. But then I ignored it. However, my wife didn't.

It's a lightweight material and very comfortable. It comes in long and short sleeves (woodworkers would definitely want the short sleeves). The DUS-T part of it is the cowl neck. It is at least double the material and covers the face nicely with loops that go over the ears. Looks dorky, but so do a lot of the face masks out there. I like it.

Thank you again dear.


----------



## GMatheson

Here is a table I've been working on. Curved tapered legs with a floating walnut top.

The base is poplar and will be painted.


----------



## CL810

Greg that is great. A floating top sofa table is on my list. And the legs look great: curved and tapered. Hope you do a detailed project post.

How about some pics of the belly to show how the float is done?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yessir, that is nice. Your design Greg?


----------



## Pezking7p

Greg, I love the table. Very elegant. I almost wish you wouldn't paint it but I'm sure the poplar would not age well.

Update on end table. I've got the structure done. Need to flatten the top and the shelf and make clips to attach the top. I cut the four mortises today by hand, I took a picture of the best m/t pair. Not too bad but I need more tools to do this in the future. Either a marking gauge and a bench or a mortiser. Either way these were a pain.

Only regret is that I didn't put more taper on the legs.


----------



## DanKrager

Pez, I think you've got enough taper on those legs to be interestingly subtle. I like design features you feel before you see them like that.
And Greg has a fine thing going there! Can't wait to see more.
DanK


----------



## CL810

Per, I like the legs as well.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Pez. Looks great for one of your first builds.

Each project you'll get a little more efficient. And you'll pick up some tools along the way. I have a couple Veritas marking gauges. They are an excellent value. But I admit I still use combination squares and a pencil to mark out a lot of stuff. Old habits.


----------



## CL810

Pez are you going to bevel the top's edges?


----------



## DanKrager

CL810, I laughed out loud when I saw what Spellchecker did to you! Per, Pea, ...Pen, Ped, Pet, Pew, Peg, etc. still to go… LOL!
DanK


----------



## Pezking7p

Thanks guys. Marking mortises with a pencil and a combo square was not a fantastic experience lol. Can't wait to pick up some marking gauges, chisels, and saws.

Clayton, after I shot the photos I beveled the underside of the thin cross pieces with my #4 (another first!). I plan to do the underside of the top, too, after I flatten it. I think I need to buy a better router bit first, though. Mine tend to burn quite a bit.


----------



## Pezking7p

Oh, any guides on fine tuning tenon fit? I posted the pic of the good one, but I'm clueless on how to make the others look better.


----------



## CL810

*Dan*, LOL, I was cussing here!!

Pez - good idea to wait after flattening. Now get that bit and get back in the shop we want to see the finished project!!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Pez- I'm assuming your talking about trimming the shoulders of the tenon. Especially since yours look angled. Ideally, you'd have a shoulder plane…like this:








-
But don't feel bad if you don't have one. I didn't get one until this past year. Before, I would mark the "high spot"...the part of the shoulder that was touching while the rest wasn't. Then, I'd undercut the shoulders like this:








-
And last, I'd use a solid piece of wood wrapped with some sandpaper to trim the shoulder down. Make sense?


----------



## Slyy

Pez, great work!! The taper in those legs seems perfect to me!

Red - what I get from that is: buy a shoulder plane! Thanks!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yep, they're nice Jake. But if I had to pick one joinery plane..it would be a rabbet block plane hands down. 
-








-
I use it to trim the faces of nearly every tenon I fit. And…it works ok on shoulders too.


----------



## CL810

Red is there a reason to have a 60-1/2 if you have the rabbit block plane? Is there something the regular block plane does better than the rabbit block plane?


----------



## Slyy

Pez, great work!! The taper in those legs seems perfect to me!

Red - what I get from that is: buy a shoulder plane! Thanks!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Red is there a reason to have a 60-1/2 if you have the rabbit block plane?

Ya, the rabbet block plane has a fairly open mouth. It doesn't work as well on end grain. 








-
I like to call them my 3 knuckleheaded amigos. How I use them if your interested:

no 102- set heavy cut. Almost exclusively for chamfers….knocking off sharp edges. 
no 60 1/2- everything an adj. mouth block plane is good for….end grain, whispy shavings. 
rabbet block- joinery…whenever I need to trim into corners.

Of course they're not cheap. There are vintage options. Unfortunately the vintage options for rabbet/skew blocks and 60 1/2s are real cheap either.


----------



## lysdexic

Jake - a shoulder plane is a must. Buy the larger first and you may not ever have a need for the smaller ones.

IMO, if you have the rabbet block plane, a regular block falls way down on the purchase list. The rabbet block is wonderful at trimming tenons. It is like a shoulder plane but WIDE.

But Rojo is right we all need a block with an adjustable mouth.

THe 102 has become a favorite.


----------



## Pezking7p

So after looking at the LN rabbet block plane, and reviewing alternatives, does anybody else make a rabbet block plane with nickers? The LN seems hands down the best option because of that feature. Also all the other options have skewed irons and I'm not looking forward to sharpening that.


----------



## BentheViking

Red are those photos you posted ones you downloaded or of you? If so you have an amazing knack for taking selfies while working with both your hands or an amazingly patient wife/kids/friends who rush out to take the perfect photos to post on a blog


----------



## CL810

Don't forget Ben that he uses miniature tools to make his bench and self look bigger.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^LOL. That conspiracy theory gets me laughing good every time Clayton.

Ben- they are pics from the interwebz. My photography skills are nearly as good. If you see pics of freckled hands covered with band-aids…they're probably mine. 









Pez- actually my rabbet block doesn't have nickers. Either they didn't offer nickers back then, or I didn't know better. Nickers aren't a deal breaker imo. If I've got dingleberries(snicker) hangin' on the shoulder, a swipe with a chisel corner, marking knife or whatever I've got handy will take care of it.

The LN rabbet block was my first hand plane. I grew ever weary of using an mdf block with psa sandpaper stuck to it for adjusting joints. I read Schwarz recommendation for the LN rabbet block in a mag…and got it for my bday. Looking back, it was just the beginning of a sickness for hand planes. LNs in particular.

Anyway, until I could afford more block planes, I used it for nearly everything.


----------



## jinkyjock

Hi Pez, have made 2 coffee tables with same leg feature (sorry no pictures), one in Oak on commission & one in Cherry for home to roughly same dimensions. I also chamfered underside of top and rails and think it complements legs. Quite a few people have commented how they (the legs) evoke an Oriental influence. BigRed, when I had stopped salivating at the pics of your plane collection, I noticed you also chamfer ends of tenons, no glue traps there, PURE CLASS.


----------



## Pezking7p

Red. Thanks. As it turns out, I don't see any metal rabbet block planes that cut on both sides other than the LN.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jinky- thanks, the past 2 years I've spent nearly every dollar I've made from furniture on either hand tools and lumber. I'm slowin down a bit on that….but it's been fun.

Pez- Double sided isn't a huge deal either. If your right handed, you'll mostly use the left side. I have no doubt a stanley 140 skew block would work as well. But they often sell for over $100 themselves.

Unfortunately LNs often sell for darn near new prices on ebay. Lately I just get them from craftsmanstudio.com and take them up on their free shipping.


----------



## Pezking7p

Ok I'm definitely buying that rabbet plane before my next project.

Ok! We are tearing down the old pig pen on our property today and I found two beams I want to salvage for my workbench. However, there are tiny holes that look like beetle holes maybe. Is this wood safe to bring in the shop??


----------



## GMatheson

The table I posted yesterday is not my design. I did a google for a floating top table and found this plan from Fine Woodworking. They had the whole article available but I only printed this exploded view as a guideline.










Pretty much all the measurements were changed to fit where it's new home.

The reason for painting the base is that I am building it from reclaimed shipping materials and there are defects that I will be filling with epoxy and I would like to cover them.

I glued the base up yesterday so today's job is to clean up the squeeze out and start filling the defects.


----------



## DanKrager

Pez, I'd certainly think twice about exposing my shop lumber stash to that potential. I would be inclined to fumigate it by bagging it and setting off a "bug bomb" that has potential to penetrate. If there aren't too many holes, you could simply inject insecticide into the hole with a needle. Isolate it for awhile until you are certain there is no more activity. Could take several weeks.
I had a prize piece of walnut that I worked into a headboard for a California King sleigh bed. There were only a couple holes that I found during shaping, so I wasn't concerned. I got real concerned when the bed was assembled and finish applied and new holes started appearing. I hired a specialist who injected insecticide into each hole and we waited…and waited. No new holes. It passed inspection and lives in Hawaii now. 
Be careful.
DanK


----------



## Pezking7p

Dan. Thanks. I want to save the wood because they are nice old oak pieces, but it's not worth it to contaminate my shop for $50 worth of oak.

So I started trying to teach myself to flatten the top of my end table tonight by flattening the underside of the shelf. Thank god I started there because it was a mess. Tear out everywhere, scratches from the corner of the plane iron, no way to clamp the piece while I plane it. I reset my chip breaker thrice, sharpened once, and panicked at least twice thinking that I would never be able to finish this table lol!

Well I got the bottom flat but I'm scared to do the top. Thoughts on avoiding tear out in cherry?


----------



## Airframer

A very light cut, tight mouth and go with the grain…. or scraper


----------



## CL810

.


----------



## Pezking7p

Tight mouth! I didn't think to close the mouth. Thanks.


----------



## lysdexic

Greg and Pez,

Very nice tables gentlemen.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Pez- Other than the sound advice offered, the #1 cause of tearout is planing against the grain. You'll get an eye for grain direction as you work with planes more. Also, you'll learn to feel the plane iron "catch" or "grab" as it's about to tearout….and be able to stop before it gets bad.

Last, if the top is kicking your butt, don't be afraid to bust out the ROS if need be. It happens to the best of us.


----------



## lysdexic

^ tis true


----------



## jds16

ROS?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Oh sorry, I slip into abbreviations and lingo without even realizing. Random Orbital Sander.

LJ Don Broussard put together a key for all the acronyms you might find on here. Worth favoriting. I've had to reference it a time or two.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Here's what I've been working on. They are great practice for furniture joinery. And…they're solid enough to support furniture for a build (my anterior motive for building them).


----------



## GMatheson

Great looking saw benches Red.

I sprayed a couple coats of primer on the base of my table. Still haven't picked a final color yet but so far it's looking pretty good.



















And since I'm on the topic of paint, I though it would be a good time to share this pic.


----------



## Airframer

He has a spotter.. I see no problems in that pic….


----------



## CL810

Looks good Greg. Relatives? ;-)


----------



## jds16

brk- thanks for the link


----------



## ShaneA

Umm, that is what extensions and poles are for. That is just proof Darwin was on to something.^


----------



## vikingcape

What an idiot! He should've had the ladder upside down…..amateurs


----------



## Pezking7p

We got in to almost the exact situation above 2 years ago at thanksgiving bat my parents house, WITH beer involved. It was all I could do to stop my brother and dad from doing almost exactly the above. Eventually we realized we could set the ladder up on the steps leaning against the wall very safely.

BRK, I really enjoy your saw benches. They are multi functional, attractive, and the joints are outstanding. Really. How did you cut the joints where the legs meet the top? Do you have more pics? Also, did you cut all the joints by hand?


----------



## CL810

Does LN's high angle frog for their #4 work in a 604?


----------



## BentheViking

working over stairs is a bitch. When I bought my house it had wallpaper in the stairwell. Had to scrape the whole thing, patch it with joint compound, multiple layers of primer and paint, then crown molding. Luckily I have a little giant and didn't have to do something fun like that.


----------



## stan3443

have done that ladder trick many times its safe


----------



## lysdexic

Clayton - not trying to be a smarty nor does it really matter, but did you post that question in the right thread?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Clayton might have seen the high angle frog in the pics of my block planes/till. If so, sorry Clayton. I don't have an LN no 4 (or any other LNs with 2" frogs) to try in my 604. I know I've seen a bedrock on ebay with an LN frog….but you know how that goes.

Pez- I'll check the pics on my phone and try to explain the joinery on the saw benches in the morn.


----------



## CL810

You're right Scotty wrong thread.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Well, your not gettin any younger Clayton….lol.

Greg- thanks for the solid laugh with the ladder poster.

Pez- I found a few more pics of the saw bench build that might help. The through mortise and tenon joints on the legs were cut with a dado blade my usual way. The mortises are really a dado one each side that you laminate. Make sure they line up when you glue and you'll have a mortise. See one half here. 









-
I always mill the tenons slightly oversized, then trim with the rabbet block plane:








-
The notches that receive the top were done by hand. They're not too tough, and don't require high dollar saws like I have. Just line them out at 10 degrees to offset the angle of the legs, and saw the notch. 









-
Then I took the assembly you can see in the back of this pic:










...laid it on the top piece and marked. Made the two saw cuts. Chiseled out the waste:








-
I don't have any pics of the fitting of the joint. But the trick is to mark accurately. Then saw inside the pencil line. This will make the joint too tight. No problem. Don't waste your time trying to chisel chop away at that notch that receives the leg. Take a block plane and lightly trim the leg "tenon" until it slides in nicely. With a little luck they'll look like this:









Hope it helps. El Rojo Guapo.


----------



## waho6o9

Great looking joinery there Rojo, very good!


----------



## Pezking7p

Red, thank you for the pics and explanation.


----------



## vikingcape

Red you have one of the nicest shops I've seen. I mean dump some paint somewhere or something, it's getting ridiculous now.

Thanks for the tutorial on the bench


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^hehehe. Wuddya mean? It was messy in those pics. Thankfully I got around to cleaning it today.









-
Can you hear my keystone? It's quoting Dolly Parton: "It costs a lot of money to look this cheap." LOL.


----------



## camps764

When I stopped by Red's shop a while back he had to clean the place up because it was such a mess….His mess was cleaner than my shop has ever been. That place is even nicer in person.

I think Red is actually breaking some kind of law of the Universe….you can't have a super nice, clean shop, build gorgeous furniture AND be an incredibly nice and humble guy.


----------



## lysdexic

You lost me at "nice and humble."


----------



## Pezking7p

The cold weather and snow have really been interfering with my shop time. I've been reading Scharz blue bench book and plotting my next project. Getting pretty itchy.


----------



## jmartel

Keystone? Man that stuff is gross. Even worse than the standard Bud/Coors/Miller fare, which is pretty bad.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

First they build you up! And then they tear…you….back…down.. lol.

Camps- Thanks for the kind words. You know your welcome around here anytime.

Jmart- Darn beer snobs. I guess Smitty and I are the only ones who think shop beer should be cheap beer. I don't mind keystone. Takes me back to my younger days bouncin around the rockies with a "30pack uh stones";-)

I'm back to making a mess in my shop. The lower cabinets for my joinery bench have commenced. I built this bench last year ahead of schedule because I needed the work area. 








-
Now I'm getting around to the cabinets/drawers that were always intended below. As I posted elsewhere, in my heart I really wanted these to have solid, dovetailed casework. It would have been great practice. But it would also cost 4 times as much. I decided to buy one nice sheet of wht oak ply, and use up some of the stuff that's been siting in my plywood cart for years. I've still got a few tricks up my sleeve to make it look nice.

Here's my high tech plans.









-
I know plywood casework isn't fascinating, but I'll post some of it here anyway if you guys want.


----------



## b2rtch

I spend more time cleaning my shop then using it. 
I am a cleaning/organizing/re-arranging maniac. 
At home I drive my wife nuts
I spend more time sharpening/tweaking/improving my tools then in fact using them.
It's pretty sad, I need a straight jacket, I know.

Red, I love to watch and to read your posts and to look at your shop.
I had pictures of my shop and of my tools on LJ until about two weeks ago when I asked Ms Debbie to remove them all after awhile ago I received an email with a Google map and pictures of my shop from a stranger. It took this as free warning.
I though that may be I was giving too much information on the Internet.
Since then I also lock my shop, thing that I used to never do.


----------



## CFrye

Post away Rojo!


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## Pezking7p

Look out, it's the beer gestapo!

Would the dovetails even show, Red? You could always take some time and do nice work on the drawers. Plenty of opportunity there for half blinds 

(Yes I'm trying to live vicariously through you)


----------



## ToddJB

Red, I like all the drawers. I need to do the same at some point, but mine will need to be much larger (so fewer) drawers for big crap. What kind of items are you wanting to store?


----------



## mojapitt

The idea is that everyone who is human will make an occasional mistake. However the good craftsman is able to cover the mistake so that it's not noticed. I have looked at many old furniture pieces. If you really look them over, mistakes can be found. To the public they are flawless.


----------



## jmartel

If you're going to do cheap beer, PBR or Yuengling is so much better than the other ones.

I so rarely drink though, so I spend money on decent beer on the infrequent times I drink.

And I'm interested to watch you build your storage under your bench. I need to do that for my bench as well, and I wanted to put some storage in the lower area of my tool cart from HF.


----------



## jinkyjock

Slight diversion from your CHEAP beer BigRed, but I have just poured the last whisky from a bottle which a friend brought me from India. It's called McDowell's No.1 reserve Whisky and is a blend of Scotch and Indian malts, and is very pleasant indeed. As you raise your aforementioned beer I will raise my glass and toast all beer and whisky drinkers on site. Slainte Mhor.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Don't worry about the beer Red. I agree that a good beer for the shop does not have to be expensive. And Smitty gave me a bad time about the O'Doulls I drink. By the way, I like your high tech plans.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Bert- I share some of your concerns posting stuff on the net. But then again, I resent living in fear. I guess I'm hoping a burglar alarm and the 2nd amendment will keep my shop safe;-)

Todd- I don't even know what all i'm gonna put in these drawers. Mostly hand tools, sketching stuff, and hardware. There's one big slide out that will have a power grinder and sander. The rest of the dimensions I'll figure as I go. I like working that way sometimes.

I got a little done today before kids Valentines parties and other festivities. 









-
And my Valentine knows the way to my heart:


----------



## ToddJB

Red - I almost exclusively work by winging it. Guys who plan every cut in sketch up is beyond me. Sure it might be super accurate, sure it might make the building process faster, sure it might allow for perfectly square builds, sure it might cut down on mistakes, but who needs that crap?

You're wife is awesome. I wish my screen were scratch and sniff.


----------



## theoldfart

Sriracha is the way to go, most restaurants around here have it on the tables all the time. Works great on huevos rancheros and breakfast burritos. Good choice on Mrs.Red's part!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Yup fellas. She takes pretty good care of me.

Jinky- A man after my own heart. Secrets out, I like cheap beer and expensive bourbon and whiskey;-) Frugality keeps me from going through the whiskey very fast(probably a good thing). A bottle of Templeton Rye will sometimes last me 6 months.

Pez- Your right, dovetails in the casework would be tough to see anyway. The drawers are up in the air. I have a bunch common grade walnut for the drawer fronts. Then, I could use 1/2" baltic birch ply. I could use for the sides. I tried dovetailing that stuff…..and I wasn't crazy about it. Then there's the question of whether they need to be full extension or not.

Right now I'm leaning toward dovetailed drawers with wood slides on the hand tool drawers (The 8 on the top left in the drawing) and full extension metal slides on the bigger drawers. I don't know.


----------



## camps764

Looks like I need to take you up on that open invitation my friend…I need to try that candy.


----------



## b2rtch

A bottle of Templeton Rye'
How can ever swallow this stuff?
Turpentine is better. 
I drink wine, French brandy, single malt scotch whiskey and Ouzo,now that's good stuff


----------



## Pezking7p

Having a templeton Manhattan myself!

I like the idea of wood slides. But walnut fronts and light colored sides….whoowee that's perty right there.

So I'm 90% sure that I laminated the grain opposite directions on the top for my end table. I didn't know any better! Live and learn. I reckon I'll be sanding a lot.


----------



## BentheViking

Love sirracha, hate whiskey. PBR is a great cheap beer, but don't consider yuengling a cheap beer (maybe because it wasn't regularly available so it was held in high regard when we could get it)

now I usually only drink craft beers, usually IPAs


----------



## CL810

A bottle of Templeton Rye will sometimes last me 6 months.

Red I gave my brother a bottle of Templeton for Christmas based on your comments. He's now into his third bottle. I think he likes it.


----------



## DanKrager

Pez, don't give up planing the opposing grains quite so fast…it really can work out OK if you can find a diagonal angle to plane it that works. Very light cuts with a very sharp blade help. A very sharp scraper at that same angle can work too. It's a classic challenge worth learning from…
DanK


----------



## Pezking7p

Got some work done flattening my panels tonight. The main top was cupped really bad from glue up and I spent forever flattening it! I'll not make that mistake again. Followed your guys advice on planing, I think the grain on the shelf is just squirrelly because the top planed just fine. Couple of edges tore out unexpectedly but nothing I can't fix or replace.

All that's left is to make cleats to attach the top, plane the legs, sand and finish. Any suggestions on end table finish??


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ Looks like your getting the hang of it Pez. In a power tool age it's tempting to ignore grain direction during layout, glue up and assembly. But I assure you furniture makers of old did not. Wouldn't it be nice to select only the boards you knew would plane easily;-) 
Sometimes, as with bookmatched panels, there's no way around opposing grains. As DanK stated, you just learn to work with it. I like to joint diagonally, then smooth with grain direction as close as I can get to the glue line where it switches direction. Last, use a card scraper on the actual line.

There have been a few times when I've had a panel turn out drastically cupped…even with the use of clamping cauls. I usually just rip down the glue line(s) on the tablesaw. Re-joint and re-glue. It nearly always comes out better the 2nd time. Another reason to leave things oversized until final fitting.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ok….*Furniture Grade Plywood*

Here's a link that explains the different grades. 
http://images.meredith.com/wood/images/pdf/Plywood-charts.pdf

I really recommend only using A-1 grade ply on furniture. I'm getting to where I'd rather have A-1 for shop stuff too. Look at this pic. The bottom is A-1 oak , the top is C-3 birch. They've both in my plywood rack for about a year. 









It's a huge pain in the rear when that stuff won't stay flat. Almost defeats the purpose for using it. A
Anyway, I can get a product from Intermountain Wood Products called "Goldply". It's made in the US, and it's really good stuff. Unfortunately they claim they can no longer get baltic birch made in the US, and I can really tell the difference in the imported crap.

None of it's very cheap. You can save some cash with the C-3 grades at the home stores, But you'll end up regretting it most of the time. I just try to plan carefully on the layout of each sheet. I've edge glued as much as 1×3" of hardwood to make a piece of ply work for a bottom shelf and so on.

For this build I'm on right now, I edge glued a couple pieces with a oak strip between. It'll be fine as part of the case:


----------



## Pezking7p

I never thought to rip it and reglue. Doh! I would have saved myself an hour and a half of planing. Oh well at least it's a hobby.

Last nights endeavors have me searching actively for a jack plane.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^I hear ya. If I had a dollar for everything in woodworking I've done the hard way. Palm…..to forehead.


----------



## theoldfart

Pez, check in with DonW and Smitty. Don has an online store and it seems like Smitty has been thinning the herd!


----------



## lysdexic

Pez, are you looking for a #7 as well?


----------



## Pezking7p

7 and a 5 would be ideal, sir.


----------



## lysdexic

If you are up for a little restoration I have a T-11 #5 and #7 that I do not need.


----------



## jinkyjock

Hi, some good stuff on gluing-up panels, particularly like the idea of gluing a central strip of hardwood. Might consider this in future as a decorative feature for shelves, panels, carcases, etc. Over here (in Scotland) our veneered boards tend to lean more towards an MDF central core which is usually more stable than ply. Luckily I have 8 PLANO clamps that are the bees-knees, and take up little room at glue-ups.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Like I said, nothing terribly impressive about plywood casework. Reminds me of building kitchen cabinets more than furniture. I've always preferred to use my tablesaw with a dado blade over the router for rabbets and dados:








-
Although, if I have to make a bunch of dado one day, I'm sure I'll make one of these jigs (from the web):








-
Anyway, just rabbets, glue and countersunk screws. 








-
Like with most casework, the back provides stability and reduces racking. I like to use the back to square things up as well. 1/4" glued and pinned into the rabbet in the back. This one needed a little encouragement to get square. 








-
Couple hours of work, but that's it so far. They aren't much to look at… yet. But don't you worry your purdy little heart. I'll spruce 'em up real good;-)








They fit, they're dead square, and they only ran about $100. Time to mill up some 1/4' white oak and make some faux panels. You'll see.


----------



## jmartel

What are you making, Red? And that's a good idea on the Router Jig. I may have to make one. Much nicer than my crappy one that I made for my bench.

I need to either get a better dado blade (mine doesn't leave a flat bottom) or make a better jig for the router for dadoes.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jmart- It the cabinets that go under my joinery bench.

I could see how those router dado jigs could come in hand too. Especially one that could be adjusted to varying thicknesses of plywood, like this:
http://lumberjocks.com/thewoodwhisperer/blog/21254


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Man, my wimpy 1HP bandsaw does not like resawing white oak. I've got a 3tpi Timberwolf resaw blade on it but it still bogs down. I have to feed it so slow that it's faster to make several passes on the tablesaw. Oh well. Might have to get a more powerful machine one day.


----------



## yuri

Red, I had similar problem with my similar Delta BS, though I put 1.5 HP motor in it. Worked fine, but when I tried to resaw wide chunk of wood, I was surprised that it bogs down. I stared to investigate is it really so? I opened motor bay during resaw process and discovered that it is not the motor. Just the belt was slipping! I increased the tension and bingo! I'm not 100% sure that you have similar situation, but check just in case. Or forget it, it is a good excuse to buy bigger saw, he-he.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Red - did you dado grooves for the drawer dividers, or just use screws and glue?

Sorry about the band saw. Have you tried different blades?


----------



## Pezking7p

#woodshopproblems


----------



## jmartel

I'm surprised you are having trouble resawing, Red. My Grizzly is only a 1hp machine and cuts through just fine. Even some 11" wide pieces I've thrown through. 1/2" 3TPI blade here as well.


----------



## ToddJB

Not all Horse Power is created equal.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks for the input guys, Yuri and JMart, I suspect your right. I'm not sure my bandsaw is running as it should. I bought it 2nd hand. I've spent some time assuring I have all the guides set right. I'm gonna have to learn more about this machine. Sometimes I wish I had a more experienced woodworker around to advise with these sort of things.

Paul- I dadoed (sp?) the divider for the drawer, also on the tablesaw. And then a rabbet on all four corners. Once I got the backs pinned and glued, their pretty solid.


----------



## jmartel

Have you set your guides up correctly per the snodgrass video?


----------



## lysdexic

Red - how about your blade? How old is it? My 1HP Rikon started losing steam and I was kind of baffled because it wasn't that old. I started thinking about things like guides, horse power, tires, tracking. But like handplanes - sharp fixes almost everything. I ordered a new 3TPI Woodslicer blade from Highland woodworking and, bam, it was like a different machine. So, to my suprise it was just a dull blade.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I agree with Scotty. I made a purpleheart table for a friend of mine, and bent laminated the front skirt. After cutting the veneers, the blade was gunked up with purpleheart resin (icky) and I cleaned it off. I continued to use the blade but noticed that the cuts on maple were a lot slower than I remembered. Bought a new blade and it made a teriffic difference.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Red, If your band saw is truly 1 hp, the motor name plate full load amps (FLA) should say at least 12-14 amps on 120 volts. If it is less, they are using the locked rotor current to calculate hp. Unfortunately, locked rotor hp doesn't get much work done ;-((


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Scotty- the blade was my first thought as well. I got that timberwolf a couple months back, It helped, but still not where should be. I think my next will be a woodslicer.

Topa- It does show a max of 14 amps….in all it's made in Taiwan quality.

But the big news. After testing, the belt IS slipping when it stalls. *Yuri*...you da man. That's gotta be a big part of the problem. I also see to different wheel sizes/settings for the belt. I need to find the book on this thing. Thanks for the help guys.









I still want a bigger one someday;-)


----------



## Hammerthumb

I'll leave the last comment alone.

Glad you found the problem Red.


----------



## yuri

Red, great! Glad to be at service. But you still want a new saw.

That is what I had (and still have, but it will go on sale pretty soon).









but this weekend I got bigger brother









and both together


----------



## Hammerthumb

That's a monster machine Yuri!

There you go Red. Order one up.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I gave all my hobby money to Lie Nielsen…lol

That's the kind of beast I'm thinkin of Yuri. I bet you'd get some interest on the old one if posted on the Sell or Swap forum.

Goofy. That belt wasn't making noise like my tablesaw does. Live and learn.


----------



## CL810

Yuri, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who can't throw away wood.


----------



## yuri

CL810,

good catch, you have a good eye! When I do some jigs or need for some other temp things, I frequently find useful peaces in that overflowing bin. Though it is time clean up a little bit. But when start to do it, it seems that every peace can serve curtain purposes, and I procrastinate and procrastinate and … I guess you know that ;-)

One illustration of usage pieces from my cut of bin. Drying parts of future stool.


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, the belts on the big ones get loose too. I have a 21" grizzly and the belt is loose and the adjustment is at the end, so it's time to tear down and put a new belt on. Guess what? I'm procrastinating that because…wait for it…it still cuts. But I know it's being hard on the pulleys. But I can sense you NEED the larger saw…
Keep the old one and get two more, then you have three. Everyone needs three, right? There's crazy sickness everywhere! 
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dank- If I had a bigger shop, a couple tablesaws, a couple bandsaws, and couple more benches….wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit.

Yuri- I try to keep scraps around, but they often disappear due to my OCD….or my kids.

Paul- here's a of the glorius drawer divider dados….and ugly screws. I didn't screw the dados on the sides, just friction and glue. 








-
This will all be hidden by the 1/4" white oak pieces I'm using to give a faux frame and panel look. I've never tried this before, but I'm sure I've seen it in a picture somewhere….so surely I can do it;-)

Basically I just resawed some oak to 1/4" x 2 1/2". I glue the pieces and use a pin nailer to temp them in place til I clamp 'em up. 








-
I just have the face plywood edge left to cover. The aforementioned shooting board came in pretty handy. It's a lot easier to shave "just a tiny bit" off a piece of trim with this method rather than a power saw.










Gonna have to decide on some drawers soon.


----------



## gimmo

Thought I would share the foyer bath shelf that I have almost finished. I will add a small hand towel rack above the stool. Haven't finished the rod holders, had to breakaway to do some other quick projects. The cedar does add a nice aroma to the small room.


----------



## Slyy

Red that's really coming along, it'll be cool to see how it looks sitting underneath that joinery bench!

Stan that's a nice looking bathroom ya got there!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Stan- Nice work man. Gotta love the smell of cedar.

Jake- I might be putting too much effort into making the cabinets look nice. They'll be mostly hidden under the bench. Oh well. LJ WayneC says my shop stuff looks more like "furniture" anyway;-)


----------



## ToddJB

Red - in your second pic, is the ply wood behind the cabinet test colors for painting your Roubo?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Red - do the cabinets get face frames? Looking good. Your method with the 1/4"x2-1/2" is similar to what I did in my kitchen. Looks real good.

Nice wok Gimmo. Gotta ask - what is the wood paneling behind the cabinet? Looks like wood paneling with racing stripes.


----------



## b2rtch

Around Christ-mas I got a brand new Grizzly 17" extreme band saw.
I love it.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Hear that Red? I see a new bandsaw in your future.


----------



## b2rtch

Red, you have to buy one.


----------



## ShaneA

I have done the "faux panel" thing a time or two with plywood case work as well. I think it turns out just fine, and have not had any problems with any of the pieces. Adds a nice touch to a case I think.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ hehehe. I've gotta get a real planer first. My Jet "benchtop series" is a piece o' crap. It's gotta go. 
But ya, a monster bandsaw will me mine someday. I'd like to make a sled so I can saw smaller logs with it.

Paul- no face frames. Just 1/4" oak to cover the front too. Then inset/flush drawers. Gotta make it hard on myself don't I

Todd- That's the family mural my girl painted last weekend. It really is a work of art….lol


----------



## Hammerthumb

Heres a planer for ya:










This is one of the only tool gloats I have. A friend gave this to me. All it needed was a rotation of the carbide blades (and a 50 amp service). Maybe you just need a new friend with an extra bandsaw!

I had to face frame my kitchen cabinets. Told my wife that I could get her more drawer space by edge banding the ply, but she would not go for it. I guess it makes more sense for shop cabinets anyway.

Love the little helpers. Wish my daughter would get busy making me a couple of elves.


----------



## theoldfart

Paul, don't give up the helper thingy , both my kids were in their 40's when my grand kids were born!


----------



## Hammerthumb

That's good to know OF. My daughter just turned 30. If she gets busy, maybe I can make a couple of kids chairs like you did. Or maybe make them first as a little encouragement for her.


----------



## chrisstef

30's the magic number now Paul. You shouldn't be far off buddy. Both wifey and I were 31 when we finally pulled the goalie.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Guess I'll start on those chairs.

Now if we can only get Red to pull the trigger on that bandsaw…


----------



## theoldfart

I would! Then she's honor bound to complete the process.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Maybe after I sell my next piece Paul. That planer is definitely gloat worthy planer. I've seen a couple of planers on CL around here. Now they've got the helical head buggers that complicate the decision.

"Pulled the Goalie"....lol. We started babymakin' around 25, but we soon noticed nearly all parents of our kids friends are older than us.


----------



## CL810

Don't fall for Red's photo trickery! See how he put the cab casing in foreground and little girls in background? Just sayin'.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, Sue was 17 and I just turned 18! Our biggest was Viet Nam!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Sorry for the late response. Actually had to do some work at work. Go figure.

I noticed that also Clayton. Making the bench and cab look bigger. He is tricky with the camera.

Well thanks for the words of encouragement for my daughter. I will pass along the concensus of the LJ group. That should be incentive in itself.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Yes I'm sure that will go over well Paul- "My buddies on a woodworking forum say it's about time for some grandbabies….so get on it."

Kev- Jeepers you guys got married young. I guess we did by today's standards. But when you're talking about two kids at a Christian college, who are trying to wait til they're married….it tends to expedite things….LOL.

"Don't fall for Red's photo trickery!" (snicker) If we've lost anyone, there's on an ongoing theory that I use photo trickery and miniature tools to make myself look larger than life. I guess you'll have to decide for yourself.


----------



## Hammerthumb

And for those that have not seen it:










A real picture of Red.


----------



## ShaneA

Looking good Red. The facial expression takes it to a whole nuther level. Are those size 4 shoes you are sporting there?


----------



## chrisstef

Im pretty sure that the suuper on a job were working. Gawd I wish I had a pic of that guy, its a dead friggin ringer.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Reds double dipping? Got a side job as a super?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

What about me on a bad hair day…LOL


----------



## ShaneA

Your makeup is flawless though, so there is that.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Been working out Rojo?


----------



## theoldfart

'roids!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, when you google "red-headed dwarf," you get some interesting stuff;-)

Alright, back to furniture. If I were to hypothetically dovetail some drawers for these cabinets….is 1/2" poplar hard/strong enough for the sides? They'd have grooves for wood slides. And their gonna have tools in them.


----------



## CL810

Meanwhile back on topic, check this project out.


----------



## Hammerthumb

That must have taken some time to build Clayton.

Red - I think maple would be a better chioce for the drawer sides as the poplar will wear faster. I am assuming you are talking about solid poplar? With all of the weight that they will carry, and wood slides, this would be my concern.


----------



## Slyy

Red's in his emo stage with that black nail polish too, stay away from drugs kids!

Seriously, can't imagine the hours put into that bed!

Still no "real" woodworking going on in the shop yet, but wife's piling future projects on and was looking at some modern style coffee tables. Kinda different variations on these themes: 








(Obviously minus flames!)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Man, that lady is quite a furniture maker Clayton.

That's kinda what I was thinkin too Paul. Plus maple will look cool with the walnut drawer fronts.

My daughter helped me put on a coat of poly. That got a little spicy.


----------



## gimmo

Hammerthumb, that's not paneling, it is a log home so many of the walls look like that inside and out.

Red, if you are close to Kentucky I have a 12" planer-jointer combo that I'm thinking about selling. Nevermind, I just went into your profile and saw that you were in Iowa, that would cost too much in gas money to make it worthwhile for ya.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sly- that's the way to get new tools- get the wifey hooked on furniture you build.

Here's a furniture maker Schwarz reminded me of:

David Savage










And his 2 cents on necessary hand tools is worth your time:
http://www.finefurnituremaker.com/woodworking_tools.htm


----------



## Pezking7p

Jake, who's the japanese guy who made modern tables? I can't think of his name but they are right up the same alley as those tables.


----------



## Pezking7p

Nakashima. That's his name. Very cool tables.


----------



## Slyy

Pez, thx for the name. Looked up some of his stuff. A lot of it looks like live edges blended with some mid-century modern styles, pretty cool stuff.

Red - hoping I get to the point where I can convince her that each new project requires a new tool!!!


----------



## lysdexic

A have contemplated picking up Nakashima's book "The Soul of the Tree." One day I will. It gets great reviews.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I was kinda hoping Paul and Clayton would swing by this weekend and help me bust out about 20 dovetailed drawers. Sweet guys, thanks


----------



## camps764

lookin good my friend!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Can't make it this weekend Red. If you ship me the sides and faces I can take care of it for you. Won't promise when I'll have them back to you though.


----------



## BTimmons

Thought this project should be a highlight for this forum. This is a brilliant way to cut tenon shoulders that I hadn't come across before.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yup Brian, that thing is slick. Clayton made it but he's to humble to post it…so you may as well;-)

Well crud Paul! I already bought the O'doul's…lol. 
Ya, the cases went together pretty fast. But these drawers are gonna take awhile.


----------



## camps764

something I've been wondering Dan….

How do you heat your shop? If I remember right, it looked pretty well insulated, but it's still a garage.

Does it just stay similar to the temp of your home? It was still T-shirt weather last time I stopped over.


----------



## camps764

suppose I should post a recent furniture project in the thread as well so I'm adding some kind of value 



















Matching head and footboard for my daughter's new bed. Grab bag of wood used since it was getting painted anyway.

This will be the twin size lower bed. The whole thing will be a twin over twin.

When it's done it will look like this, including the slide out drawers for steps.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Sweet! Your daughters gonna love that.

As far as heating my shop. It is built under our house/bedrooms, so it never really get much colder that 45-50 degrees in there. I believe the insulated garage door helps. That's warm enough for me to work, but not so much for glues and finishes. So if I need to warm it up I ether:

- small ceramic heater. You can see it in the far right of the pic above. I'll fire that up before I go out in the morning and it helps. 
- the ductwork runs across my garage, and I tapped into it. It's a building code no-no, so I'd have to remove it if we sold. Of course you want a good damper and don't want it open when finish fumes are present. Actually I open it more in the summer for AC than I do for heat. I don't mind being cold when I work, but I hate being too hot.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Red. Don't get rid of that stuff. I'll make it there some day. Maybe sooner than you think. I know what you mean about the drawers. That will always slow down progress, but I don't mind doing dovetails. I usually bring a chair out to the shop and sit at my bench and do them.

Sure is a nice looking project you have there Camps.


----------



## camps764

Thanks dude, I'm pretty excited about it. With # 2 showing up in April I'm under the gun to get the bottom bed done so the little one can have the crib. The loft will be a longer term build methinks.

I thought I remembered your shop being pretty comfortable…but didn't remember seeing any big heaters or anything…the ducts make sense.

In the winter I'd kill for a 50 degree shop


----------



## Pezking7p

How many Dans are in this thread?

20 dovetails, 3 minutes each, should be done in an hour 

Bed looks real nice Steve. It's nice to have the wife behind you to spend MORE time in the shop!


----------



## CL810

Awesome Camps - keep the pics coming.

Red, I was headed your way but the guys I'm with said they wanted to go to Florida and play golf. I was outvoted 3-1. Sorry man!!


----------



## DanKrager

Hammerthumb mentioned maple sides wearing longer than poplar. I'll readily agree that maple is denser than poplar, and it would make sense that denser is a better choice, but I've messed with too many antiques where the poplar drawer sides cut their way deeply into the oak, maple, and other hardwood frames that held them with minimal loss of the 1/2" poplar. I can't explain why that is. I remember reading somewhere in a book, but I can't remember where, that poplar has resistance to abrasion wear like no other common wood. I haven't lived long enough to see the results of my own work, but I almost always choose poplar for drawer sides.

Red has a unique situation with the weight of tools. I would be more concerned about the bottom thickness of the drawer than the thickness of the sides. Having said that, I believe that 1/2" thickness with a dado loss does not leave enough poplar to survive. I have 30 year old 3 1/2" deep tool drawers with poplar sides and 1/4" x 1/2" dadoes for oak wood slides but the drawer sides are 5/8" thick. Drawer is 20" wide and 20" deep, and yes the 1/2" plywood sags a bit but not enough to rub on the next drawer 1/8" below. The oak is shiny and slick, and I haven't noticed significant wear on either slides or sides. They get waxed regularly. Just sharing my experience.

Red, I don't think you can overbuild those drawers if you're looking for longevity. Hold a plane at arms length and see how long you can do it without sagging. Wood has the same problem (easy Stef).
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Thanks for your input DanK. Normally I'd just go with poplar too. It's a great secondary wood. But like you say, the weight of tools got me thinkin. One of my lumber sources stocks 5/8 maple just for drawer sides….so I think I'll hit them up.

Clayton- i don't blame ya one bit. We've become fans of Clearwater, FL for a getaway.

Steve- Ya, the loft is gonna take a while. Depends on how crazy you get with the joinery. Making things "paint grade" will help. The only painted piece I've made is my girls dresser. Lemme know if you need any help.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Sorry Red. Gotta tell ya I'm one of the guys that voted to go golfing.

As far as poplar goes, I was more concerned about the weight you would have in the drawers. Maybe Dan is right though.


----------



## jmartel

I'm not a huge fan of Poplar. Dents way too easily. I'd rather use Oak or Ash and spend a bit more.


----------



## Hammerthumb

By the way Red, I wasn't kidding about stopping by sometime. Was thinking about a trip to Wisconsin this spring. Keep the O'Doulls cold.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

I'd be glad to help with dovetails Red. I could use the practice under the eye of a master. If I start now, the weekend will be over before I get there. Darn the luck ;-(


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Your welcome any time Paul. I'm not far off the beaten path.

Jmart- Oak or Ash would really be considered "Primary" woods. This definition explains secondary woods better than I could:

Secondary wood- You will choose your primary wood, such as walnut, cherry, oak, maple, or one of the others such as those on the previous web page. But most furniture pieces also have a "secondary wood" - the wood that you don't see, inside the piece, for supports, guides, etc. One common secondary wood is poplar. Poplar is a durable hardwood, white, with a hint of green in the sapwood. It does not have a pretty grain nor does it stain well, so it is typically used for painted furniture, or as the structural parts of other furniture. Sometimes I get a good price on a "prime" wood such as ash or maple, and use them as secondary woods. Or occasionally I will "use up" odd pieces of primary wood such as walnut. You can be sure your secondary wood will be good quality and strong, but no promises what species it will be - it doesn't show!
from: http://www.plesums.com/wood/secondarywood.html

Anyhow, poplar is a little more dent prone. But it wears pretty well. And it works like a dream with hand tools.


----------



## Pezking7p

I wonder if poplar has higher wear resistance because of higher mineral content? I also wonder if there's some product you can put on a drawer slide that doesn't need rework every year like wax. Maybe silicone or tiny particles of teflon to impregnate the wood.

Off to take the outhouse and pig pen to the dump. They were on our property right where my fiancée wants to get married, so they had to go. Then hopefully I'll get some shop time

!


----------



## DubyaB

Pezking, I wondered the same thing, then I found "this": http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=32182&cat=1,110,43466,32182. and have used it ever since. It's really thin, sorta clear and works really well!


----------



## Pezking7p

Oddly enough, I have a huge pile of thin Teflon tape at my desk. I was thinking of something less conspicuous, but I suppose you could hide it by putting it in the slot and not on the…the….the other part? Having a moment I guess.


----------



## jmartel

Oh, I understand that, Red, but it seems like every time I use Poplar it dents if I look at it funny.


----------



## Pezking7p

I did a dumb, dumb thing. When I tapered the legs for my side table I tapered THROUGH the lamination. Now I have glue lines that will always be there. I have to wait until next weekend to pick up more lumber to remake the legs. I think that's the only reasonable recourse. On a plus side, I'll get to practice chopping more mortises. And I've learned a boatload about planes in the process.

Anyway, I would say "learn from my mistakes instead of your own" but I doubt anyone else here is this green/dumb!


----------



## lysdexic

^ duly noted.


----------



## DanKrager

Pez, before you buy more material, study to see if there is a way to rip this side off and put it onto the other side. Another idea is if you have a sliver of this material as long as the leg, put a "veneer" over it and rip the difference off the other side. ???
It's worth studying to learn how to fix mistakes, even if you eventually end up rebuilding it. There will be a next time…
DanK


----------



## Slyy

Pez, thx for posting the DOH! moment! We've all had our fair share of those for sure! Hearing others' helps us keep a more mindful eye out for our own mistakes!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That's stinks Pez. I can't help but wonder if that glue stripe couldn't be removed with a card scraper on just that area. It would be touchy though.


----------



## Pezking7p

Dan, I thought about covering with a thin strip but I didn't think about ripping and remaking! I think I might have enough stock to do that. Thank you a lot!

The reason I let it go so long is because I thought I could scrape or sand it clear, but as soon as I tried it I realized it was hopeless. Such a shame because I was ready to start assembly today. Now I'll have to wait until next week. Putting off my bench build off another week.

Oh well, at least it's fun


----------



## Iguana

Pez, what about putting some kind of cuff on the bottom? Tall enough to go past where the lamination is exposed.

The technique is detailed in the latest FWW magazine…


----------



## CFrye

Greener than a gourd here Pez. Last week getting ready to put the finish on a piece I wiped it down with a water dampened towel. Raised the grain. Back to sanding. We ALL do the stupid thing now and then.


----------



## dbray45

Pez - you can always take a piece of ribbon veneer and wrap the leg where the break is. This way it is intentional and a design feature.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Awhile back when we got on the subject of dovetails, most of us agreed David Barron's video was very helpful. Since then I've pretty much done the dovetail a day for 30 days (not consecutively). I still wasn't getting the results I would need to be confident enough to excute them on a nice piece of furniture.

So, I decided to make a guide similar to Barron's. It was pretty easy. He outlines most of the process here:
http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/page.asp?p=1458

I bought some 3/4" rare earth magnets, glued up some scraps, and came up with this:








-
I scaled down the thickness of the material a bit in an attempt to have a guide that fit my western style saw. I've tried Japanese saws…and they weren't my cup o' tea. Even so, the brass back on my LN DT saw still made contact with the guide 1/2" into the cut. I was bummed at first, but soon realized this wasn't that big of a deal. The cut was well-established by then, and I like to pull the guide as I approach the baseline anyway. 









-
After a few pracitce cuts I attempted some DT's on red in hopes to make a dovetail alignment board Barron's. What a difference. I knew most of my problem was my my errant sawing. This is honestly what my first attempt looked like:








-
I guess you could say I now have a method in which I am confident to make this joint on furniture let alone the drawers for my joinery bench. It feels a little like cheatin. I still hope to be able to cut dovetails completely freehand one day, but I think this method can still help me get there.

Just thought I'd share my epiphany. Dovetail alignment board is all ready.


----------



## ScomelBasses

That looks great, Red. I don't see this as cheating at all and very much consider it as done completely by hand. Nice!


----------



## Pezking7p

Those look nice! What do your dovetails look like without the guide?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys. My dovetails were getting decent by the end of the 30 days. Still a little gappy. One of better attempt pictured below. However, whenever I tried to mix it up with smaller pins and such….it got ugly. 
-









-

The other thing I didn't like about my old method (basically Chris Schwarz method from his writings) is that it was sloooww. Even after the 30 days, it just took too long for each joint. Barrons method saves a lot of time in marking and layout. You don't have to mark the angles etc, the guide cuts the angle.

I wrestle with whether it's possible for a hobbyist to invest the time to master a task like handcut dovetials. Or the bigger question, does he or she have the patience to get there? Whether it cheating or not, I can say I enjoy the process much more already. And enjoyment is the whole reason I'm doing this stuff anyway.


----------



## jmartel

If you don't cut the tree down yourself, it's cheating.


----------



## Slyy

Cheater! Also: great looking DT's Red, that guide looks like a great thing to try and make for use around the shop!


----------



## Iguana

If you don't plant the tree yourself, it's cheating


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I hear ya guys. Sometimes I set arbitrary goals for myself, "smooth this completely by hand, or cut this joint by hand…." But I'm finding the efficient and enjoyable method usually lies somewhere between.

All this guide really does is aids me in starting my saw straight and true to the cut. Combined with practicing the process as much as I already have, it took me up a notch. And that's fun!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Red - I made myself a guide many years ago. It did not have a magnet but it helped me keep the saw in line. I dont really remember when I quit using it, and have no idea where it is in my shop. I think it helped me to build muscle memory for sawing. Although the joints I cut now are probably not as good as when I was using the guide, I know that I go a lot faster now without it.

Wanted to ask you about the Hock blades in your Bedrocks. Highly recommended? 01 or A2? Do you use the Hock chip breakers? Inquiring minds want to know.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Paul, I do have hocks in nearly all of my vintage planes. Here's my reasoning on that subject since you asked.:

- Time. I felt that flattening/ reshaping old irons was a waste of time. Even though I'm a hobbyist, I still put a value on my time. Spend a hour flattening an old iron? Or work on a piece of furniture, earning $30 to buy a new one? I'd rather work on furniture. 
- I find thicker irons perform better on hardwoods. I can't tell the difference on pine, but I can on oak. I know some guys on the plane thread think I'm nuts, but that's okay. "Experts" on the subject such as Garret Hack, go so far to say that the thin stanley blades were made for softwoods.

O1 or A2. All of my Hocks are O1. Mostly because they're cheaper. And…. Hocks O1 is still a pretty hard steel. I've bought all of mine on Amazon or Craftsmanstudio.com in the $30-35 range. O1 will take a finer edge, but I don't have any trouble getting the edge I wan't on my LN A2s….I think it's just preference on that.

Hock chipbreaker? I have a couple. They are nice but not mandatory. With these you run into the issue of the mouth opening being wide enough for a thicker iron and chip breaker. I try not to file the mouth opening if I don't have too. I won't even consider it on a bedrock. With most baileys, it seems like you can do either the new chipbreaker OR the new iron without opening the mouth. Not usually both.

In short, I tell newbies all the time to pick up a hock and put it in their bailey. It's a different animal…in my opinion

Last note, Veritas and others make great irons too. I just like the price and performance of hocks.


----------



## Slyy

Great short write up on the Hocks Red. You might have just convinced me to pull the trigger on a few!!!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Red. I just spent a couple of hours on an iron that someone had put a backbevel on. Also was curious as my #6 is a Wood River that I bought on a whim, and I actually got the least amound of tearout of any of my planes. That was before I put a radius on it. Did not know if it was just the thickness of the iron making the difference. Got to say, that plane was well worth the money.
I think Ill give it a shot with a 2" blade (01 for me also. A2 sounds like too much work). I'll let you know if you're "nuts". ;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Paul, I used to get really frustrated with A2 irons, but I think I just needed to work on my sharpening. A2s take a little longer to sharpen….but then the edge lasts a little longer. It's a trade off.

I'll be interested to hear what you guys think when you try one;-)


----------



## Pezking7p

So last weekend I learned that I need to pay attention to my plane…it cuts like butter when I sharpen it, and cuts like crap when it's dull. What really confused me is how quickly it dulled. I probably planed 150 LF before it got dull, and probably another 25 before I decided it was dull.

Do you feel like you get much more from the nice modern tool steels? It only took about 30 seconds to sharpen the iron, but it's kind of a pain to stop what you're doing.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Do you feel like you get much more from the nice modern tool steels?

I feel like I do Pez. It's not like a night and day difference. Just a little better. Some of the biggest plane nuts on here disagree with me, but that's why I encourage you to try one out for yourself.

it's kind of a pain to stop what you're doing.
Have you seen how many planes I have? I just grab another….lol.


----------



## Pezking7p

My current strategy is just grab another…but I only have one! Soon I'll have more, I hope.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I agree with Red. Got a few smoothers, and a couple of jacks. But only have one of 6, 7, & 8. Would like to try an LA jack sometime though. I'll get that when Rojo gets his new bandsaw.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Hahaha. You guys never should have told me how to fix my old bandsaw! It works a lot better now….lol.

Actually, the low angle jacks are a little more reasonable because they don't have a frog. $245 is still a chunk uh change. But….well…just look at it on that end grain;-)


----------



## Hammerthumb

That's the exact reason I want one Red! For that, and shooting miters. Seems I've done a lot of that lately.


----------



## Hammerthumb

By the way, glad to hear you got the BS tuned up.


----------



## dbray45

Most of the old irons have much harder steel. If it only takes a few minutes to sharpen a blade, it is not good steel. 
I have a few old planes and one of them took 45 minutes to just clean up the blade. I have not had to sharpen it since.

I went to one of the LN events and it was kind of funny, I was looking at the small scraper plane and asked whether they have the normal bur on it from the factory. This kid was telling me that it didn't have the bur and didn't need one, he on to tell me that the steel was too hard and that you had to be really strong (or some such thing) to put the burr on it. I almost didn't buy it, but I did. I just figured he was being stupid. Anyway, he was right that it didn't a burr and it cut fair. After spending the few minutes to polish the edge and put the burr on it, this thing has been great. Well worth the money.

As it is, I have mostly LV, a few LN, and a few older planes. I have a few inexpensive newer planes and if I cannot fix them, I give them away or toss them.


----------



## Pezking7p

Mine is a SW blade, I thought that was about as good as the "old steel" got? My understanding was that a couple swipes is all it takes. I probably hit it with 10-15 swipes on 600 and 10-15 on the 1200. Then 1-2 on the 1200 on the front and back to make sure I get the burr off. That took me from barely cutting to the sharpest iron I've ever used. Some people may have more in depth sharpening than that, but I don't own any finer sand paper or fancy stropping stuff. The 1200 grit seems to leave wood as smooth as glass anyway.


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## dbray45

That was when they used real steel (tool steel) for the blades. Many of the changes in steel started in the '60s when the steel mills started having problems, if I remember correctly. Now, most of it is imported and it is not great stuff.


----------



## Pezking7p

*sigh*

I wish people wouldn't attribute "old" steel with "good" steel and "imported" steel with "bad" steel.

Steel today can be made to far more exacting standards than 100 or even 50 years ago. If cheap steel is used, it's because cheep steal was specified for the part, whether it's hand hammered by a craftsman with 50 years experience or whether it's made in a giant steel mill in India.

Sorry I have a soft spot.


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## dbray45

Pez, its all good.

My family was in the steel business at one time. There have been significant changes in what has been determined to be quality (what is acceptable to me is apparently very different than my suppliers). Whether it is the quality of the steel or the specs that ordered the steel. I have been in the manufacturing world and what you specify and pay for are not necessarily what you get and it is not consistent across the lot. It is a broad sweeping generalization, I agree. But I have experienced it first hand at different levels, not just steel but in several industries from tools to computer parts, steel to rubber, and the list goes on.


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## theoldfart

David, foundry work or fabrication?


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## dbray45

fabrication and foundry

Grandfather was a senior exec at US Steel, uncle was VP of Sharon Steel, great grandfather was founder and CEO of General Fireproofing.

I manufactured computers and electronics for a while - was way too under capitalized to make a serious go of it.


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## Pezking7p

When you say your family was in the steel industry, I guess you're not kidding around! What kind of electronics and computers were you making?


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## dbray45

Sold services and equipment, later I manufactured PCs and storage systems. Did this for almost 15 years. Was one of the premiere desktop publishing companies at one point. Now, I am a sysadmin specializing in UNIX, SAN storage and fibre. Pays better, not working 20 hours a day, 7 days a week. and now my basement is full of wood and woodworking equipment instead of computers.

I like the trade off.

For a couple of those years, did over a million in business. It got to a point where there was not enough profit margin for what it cost me.


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## dbray45

Having watched the mills shut down one by one in Youngstown and Pittsburgh and all of it went over seas, it is a sore spot. Especially since it was at the blessing of the fed. Yes, the air is cleaner, but what it did to the US has yet to be realized and it has been 30 years. Shipbuilding and steel has gone from Baltimore, so much manufacturing, the jobs, the heritage, the ideals. Hell, just getting oil based finishes is a problem. The replacement - some water based crap that never hardens.

One day, hopefully soon, we will wake up and get back to basics and start building something other than houses (the only thing the fed monitors anymore as a growth indicator). I remember when the markets monitored manufacturing - steel, cars, machinery, tools, ships, computers and hard disks, even heating blankets were made in the US. Now - isn't much left.

Done with my rant - thanks.


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## Pezking7p

I think there's a lot of reasons that manufacturing is dead in the US. But I also believe that just as we've swung away from a manufacturing-based economy, it will swing back. In today's day of computers and automation, I don't think it will ever be like it WAS, but it will come back I think.


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## lysdexic

^agree


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## Pezking7p

^^Eagerly awaiting a package from you sir. I'm going to have a lot of tool refurbing to do soon. I think I might have to take a day off work once I have all my supplies ready.


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## jinkyjock

I have to agree with just about everything you posted dbray45, as we get older we are allowed to have the occasional "rant", doesn't mean your opinion lacks substance. Same things have happened over here in Scotland, we used to be the industrial/engineering/manufacturing heart of Britain. Perhaps our interest in woodworking is part of some deep-seated desire to ensure these skills are passed on.


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## theoldfart

David, thanks for the reply. I worked for a company that purchased the corporate remains of Mesta Machine Company. They made foundry equipment. Not much left except for a few subsidiary spin offs from their IT department and environmental compliance areas.


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## lysdexic

Pez - shipped yesterday.


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## BigRedKnothead

^Glad you guys worked something out. Received my Thos Moser catalog the other day- nothing short of inspirational.

I agree with most of what you guys posted today. I would love to see quality manufacturing return to our country as well. And I'm optimistic it will.

David lost me a bit with, " Most of the old irons have much harder steel." I don't know much about metallurgy, I just know my experience. For example, I used to grind/shape the bevel of irons with 80 psa sandpaper before I had a grinder. 








-
This was possible with old irons. With the newer ones, it was a fools errand. I would completely break down the abrasive on a couple strip of sandpaper, and still not have my bevel. That's why I started looking into a slow speed grinder.


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## Pezking7p

He's only enabling me. I bought another backsaw tonight…it's getting worse 

Do you still use your honing guide? I stopped using mine and all is well. What about putting a camber on an iron?


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## Slyy

Pez, you're kidding yourself if you think you're talking to anything BUT a whole group of enablers! 
Waiting on my Thos Moser catalog, browsing their webpage, lots of great stuff there!


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## BigRedKnothead

Pez- I still use the honing guide some. Only when it will be quicker to do so..if that makes any sense. 
You can still put camber by using the camber attachment on the MKII, or by pressing on the edges of the iron while honing. I don't use much camber on irons though. Just a little on the jack.


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## lysdexic

Rojo,

I know you do a great job with oak but I have a love affair with cherry. The Thos Moser catalog just makes it worst. I'd love to know their finishing technique. Lord knows they finish enough of it and, I'm sure, have experimented with all different types of finishes on cherry.

What do you think? Think they have a giant lacquer spray booth?


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## SPalm

Lys,
I visited the Thos Moser showroom up in Maine a couple of years ago. I too just love their stuff.

They told me that the finish was a oil and varnish mixture. I am partial to cherry too. They seem to get the pick of the tree.

Steve


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## dbray45

Red - Are you using the same 80 grit that you used to have or is it new stuff (last 6 years)? Some of the paper that I have gotten, if you bend the paper, the media falls off. If you can find any good emery cloth, it is seriously expensive anymore, you may find that it works real fast. I have also found a tremendous difference in sandpaper companies.

I am basing my findings on using DMT plates and how fast they sharpen. There is a substantial difference in the time it takes to put an edge on the various steels. I bought a blade at HD for $3.00 a couple of years ago. To regrind it on these plates, to a different angle, took not more than 5 minutes. Using my torch, I re-hardened and tempered the steel, and changing the edge back to what it was. This took about 15 minutes - so it was an improvement. Comparing this to a Stanley blade from the mid '40s, which took about 45 minutes to an hour (same thickness 1/8"). This would indicate there is a big difference in steel.

That being said, some of these have very different thicknesses which changes the speed to sharpen.


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## BigRedKnothead

I have gotten decent at finishing oak. Truth be told, I prefer to work with cherry or walnut any day.

Good question concerning the Moser finish Scotty. I didn't think furniture of that caliber would just have some spray on lacquer. After some investigation, looks like Steve and I were right. Their website describes an oil-and-wax finish. And that….sounds a lot like Maloof's recipe.

Maloof finish:
3 coats at 2 day intervals. Equal parts of poly varnish, raw tung oil, and boiled linseed oil.
"I then apply a final coat of a mixture I mix up on a double boiler: a half gallon each of tung oil and boiled linseed oil, with a couple of handfuls of beeswax grated in. Do this outdoors and be careful-linseed oil has a low boiling point."

Nothing secret there. Mr. Maloof shared this recipe freely. I've never tried it, I just know that it's very time consuming. And the result is supposed to look and feel wonderful.


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## jinkyjock

Had an unusual (for me) but strangely pleasurable experience in my workshop today and feel it apt to post it on this page. I am making a new cabinet/stand for my sliding mitre saw and was machining some pine fore-edge/facings. As I couldn't get to my thicknesser due to a pile of 8×4 sheets, took them straight from the saw using my 2nd best crosscut (ABT) blade for a nice clean cut, just a hair over to hand dress. Sharpened my old Stanley 4.1/2, 2 or 3 passes , and clean as a whistle. Usually bring out my (block) plane to *FIX * things and had quite forgotten that wonderful sound you get from a sharp plane. Will continue in this vein until completion of this project at least. Whether I can continue with the same zeal, fervour and passion as BigRed and his fellow (plane) disciples I know not. However, a timely reminder that simple is good.


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## BigRedKnothead

Jinky- good stuff. I don't mean to isolate those who aren't as crazy about hand tools as I am. Just sharing my journey;-)


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## WhoMe

Red, that is interesting about Maloof and his chemistry lesson. I just cannot figure out how that stuff dried. Whenever I have done chemistry experiments, many of my concoctions seem to take longer to dry that what that quote states. But I'm not using any tung oil either. Maybe that is the key. 
I have done the 3-2-1 with some success and switching the 2 and 1 never seemed to dry. I have done the BLO, beeswax and mineral spirits and I really like that mix but it does take a bit to dry and more than 3 coats is not advised as it takes a really long time to mostly dry and it remains sticky. Buffing the finish makes it smooth but you can really tell there is wax in the finish at that point.

For me, I never use BLO full strength any more. I like it diluted with MS as I find it easier to work with and it seems to dry better between coats.

Now, if we can only get oil based poly back in So Cal, I would be a happy camper.


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## Pezking7p

Prepping for the finish of my cherry end table, I tested danish oil and poly side by side, and couldn't tell any difference in color or grain. The danish oil blotched significantly more than the poly, and I would guess anything with more oil in it would blotch as much or worse than the danish oil.

Wouldn't 3-2-1 blotch the cherry pretty badly? Is blotching just accepted in cherry? Does the blotching become hidden after a few years? Is every board of a cherry piece meticulously tested prior to production to ensure minimal blotching?

Finishing seems like such a mystery to me. I read an intro to finishing book, but it was pretty basic. Almost too basic. It scared me away from buying other books.


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## BigRedKnothead

Mike- ya I don't have much experience with oil mixes like Maloof used. I know his process took a couple weeks. 
Now pil poly in Cali? I'd be lost. I'd have to do like fireworks and stock up when I'm outta state.

Pez- Ya, if you don't like the looks of the danish…don't go with it. I use it first on walnut and cherry because it tends to give it depth and highlight any burls etc. Like this:









-
ehhh, I forgot I dont' have any good pics of my hutch. Tough to see there. I supposed it could be considered blotchy, but I like the look. The cherry is much darker 3 years later.


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## BigRedKnothead

Oh ya, I got one of the drawers done on my joinery bench cabinets. It's the larger power tool slide out. Made entirely of ply cutoffs on my rack. Locking rabbet for the joints.










-
I ordered all my slides from CSHardware.com. Learned about this place from one of LJ Monte's posts. Their full extension slides were 1/2 the price I've been paying at the BORG. The power tool drawer has a 200lb slide, and the others will be 100lb. 









-
I can't get by without at least one goof. I didn't realize the 200lb slides where 3/4" wide instead of 1'/2" like I'm used to. So I had to dado a groove in the drawer side after the fact. This made the ugly power tool drawer even uglier. Oh well. It'll look fine with a walnut drawer front.


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## ShaneA

lol, I had to run a shallow dado in one of my miter saw stand drawers too. I had that "oh sheet" moment when the drawer was almost impossible to open/close. I too was using a hodge podge of materials on hand and slides from different mfgs(which is where the problem arose). Learned a lesson on that one. Didn't want to take the time or material to make another, so I just made a small dado the width of the drawer slide. Nothing like precision woodworking.


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## lysdexic

Rojo, that's your hutch? If so, very nice.

Pez- I consulted Flexnor 's book on finishing cherry. It is the oil that causes botching because of uneven absorption. He recommends a gel varnish without oil and natural darkening.


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## Hammerthumb

Agree with Scott on the gel varnish, or you could try a scrap piece and seal it with de-waxed shellac as a sealer. Sand it with 220 after it dries, just enough so its not shiny anymore. Then use the Danish. That might help to keep it from blotching.


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## BigRedKnothead

Pez- the one book on finishing definitely worth having is the one Lysdexic is referring to. Bon Flexner's Understanding Wood Finishing. I reference it often.

Shane- hehehe. A little dado on a drawer side wouldn't be bad on a solid side. Of course this is part way through a layer on plywood….and looks like poopoo. Oh well. 
Got the good stuff for the rest of the drawers. Lumber place sells some 5/8" maple all milled up for drawers. Price wasn't much more than buying maple to mill up myself…..so I likey. 








-
-
Scotty- ya that's our hutch. All the stuff in our kitchen/dining I've made from cherry.

. 
I need to get some better pics of it. We had a really cheap camera back then.
Anyway, I was a little over my head when I built that. Now all the flaws kinda bug me. Eventually I intend to pass it on to one of my broke sister-in-laws and build a better one.


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## camps764

Quick update - the bed is done  Finished pictures aren't terribly exciting since there aren't really any visible standout details. It was fun and relatively quick project.

All of the spindles on the head and footboard are M/T construction. The hollow chisel mortiser was a huge time saver on this project and paid for itself.

The painting kind of sucked…even with a good brush I still don't really enjoy painting. I think I'll pre-paint the loft as much as possible…painting after assembly was kind of difficult and lead to a few not so great spots in hard to reach areas.

I think one of the coolest aspects of the project so far has been the use of materials. Everything on the bed was made from scraps around the shop or free pallet wood for some of the larger parts. Had to purchase some poplar for the loft that I'll be starting on this weekend, but will still try to use up as much scrap from around my shop as possible. One benefit of painting was that the wood types didn't have to match. So theres a little poplar, a little pine, a little maple, a even a few cherry scraps.


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## CL810

Great project Steve - looks really nice.


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## lysdexic

The most impressive is the fact that he used up scraps from his shop. I SO need to find a project to do that.

Rojo, on that bottom drawer, does it taper toward the back or is it the camera angle?


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## camps764

Thanks guys, I'm pretty proud of it!

Lys - I've been trying really hard to find projects that will let me use up odds and ends…I'm really bad about keeping all sorts of ridiculous pieces. "DON'T THROW THAT AWAY, THAT COULD BE EDGE BANDING SOME DAY!"

I was wondering about the taper on the drawer too.


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## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Steve. It's a different feeling installing a piece for your children that you built…rather than bought. When you build the bigger part, I'd sure think about spraying paint. I have a nice airless if you need one.

Ya guys, the slide-out/drawer does taper towards the rear. Partly because I wanted to properly support the very large walnut front that will installed. And partly because, like Steve, I was trying to use up the crap in my shop. 
Coincidentally, that darker ply on the front is a cherry ply that has been hanging around ever since I built the cherry hutch…..mentioned yesterday;-)


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## TopamaxSurvivor

*the slide-out/drawer does taper towards the rear. Partly because I wanted to properly support the very large walnut front *

Red, How does tapering the draw help support the large front?


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## BigRedKnothead

Oh, just by leaving a taller piece for the front of the drawer. See, the plywood scrap I had for the back was only 8". The piece I had for the front was 12"....and I didn't want to cut it down and give the future drawer front less support. So that's what I came up with. Really just a matter of making do with what I had.

Due to my recent boost in confidence regarding dovetails, the rest of the drawers will have nice solid maple sides with dovetailed joints.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

There is a trade secret I should have known ;-)


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## camps764

It definitely is a different feeling. I may take you up on that offer my friend. I painted some of this with a nice brush, some of it with a foam roller…none of it was very much fun.

Maybe I'll have you and the fam over with your sprayer sometime this Spring and we'll drink some beer, grill some burgers and spray some paint. All my other friends run the other way when I want them to hang out and do woodworking related stuff.


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## Pezking7p

Steve, bed looks really nice. Very impressive that it's mostly scraps.


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## camps764

Thanks Pez, appreciate the kind words.


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## BigRedKnothead

Steve- A furniture finishing barbecue? Sounds like my idea of a good time.


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## CFrye

Nice solution on the drawer front , Red. Looking at the photo of the cherry hutch on my phone I thought "Why does he have a large rodent head mounted on the wall!?" I zoomed in and saw it was your phone. Yeah I go see the eye doctor next month! 
Steve, beautiful bed you made for your little one. I can't remember what kind of mortiser do you have?


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## camps764

Candy - a large rodent head would be way cooler than a phone. Thanks for the compliment on the bed! I have a grizzly mortiser that I picked up used for $100. It paid for itself on this project in terms of speed accuracy and repeatability.

Red - sounds like a winner to me.


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## Pezking7p

So if anyone remembers my tapered legs saga, I ended up making all new legs. I decided it would take less time and it gave me a chance to make the table 3" taller to make wifey happy. I chopped all the mortises again, turned out way better. Took me about 8 minutes per mortise. Not great but not horrible. I also decided to remake some little cross pieces because I blew out the side of one trying to put a bevel on the end by hand. But, I made the new pieces smaller on accident. I decided to widen the dados and glue in some shims.

All in all I've remade or fixed almost the entire table! But I've learned a ton, and I guess that's what's important. I swear I'm going to finish this soon.

Gluing in shims.

















New legs with the bottom shelf.


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## BigRedKnothead

Dan aka Pez;-) there you go- Plan C, just remake them. I doubt you'll regret it. Keep the old legs around, you might use them one day. I've jacked up drawer parts only to use them on a later project. And you learned from it.

I think I saw Renners gave up on lumberjocks. That's a bummer. He will be missed.


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## CL810

Ck this out


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## Pezking7p

Clayton, I saw that table, very cool design.

Red, plan C it is! I was just glad to finally get a day in the shop. It was a beautiful day too, 70 degrees and sunny.

Sad to hear about renners. Did he say why?


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## terryR

Shamelessly posting to get to the bottom of this…
No experience with furniture…here to lurk and learn!


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## lysdexic

O' the shame!


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## terryR

Sorry, Scotty, been busy…


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## BigRedKnothead

Welcome aboard Terry. We ramble like we know somethin 'bout furniture around here. But we don't know much.

Concerning Renners, I'm not sure. There seems a trend of woodworkers who make their own website, blog or whatever….and leave LJs behind. Rhett is another one. I'm sure it has something to do with not entirely owning the rights of the content one posts on LJs. I don't blame them in that respect. I guess it depends what your goals/objectives are on the matter.


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## Slyy

Greeting me in the snowy mailbox after work! Thx for the tip on this catalog Scotty!


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## BigRedKnothead

^Good stuff. Postal service beat the crap outta mine.

I got a catalog today too, from The Traditional Woodworker. It's a nice little Texas based tool retailer. Among other things, they offer some affordable European options for hand tools. I like 'em.


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## camps764

Slyy - I got mine last week as well - signed up after reading this thread. Keep flipping through it going 'holy cow - people pay this MUCH for stuff like this??'

The craftsmanship is gorgeous, and it has really changed my opinion of cherry furniture.


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## Pezking7p

What's the deal with cherry furniture? I read that 30 years ago it was mostly only considered for drawer sides and things like that. Today it's thought of as a premium furniture wood, but you rarely see furniture made from cherry. I like it much better than flat sawn oak, but think its on par with QS red oak and walnut. I don't much care for white oak unless it's stained pretty dark. That's about all I'm familiar with. People use some crazy woods in furniture but I don't know most of them.

What are your favorites?


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## camps764

I'm a big fan of dark oak like you. I also really like Walnut and maple, and I especially like them together 

I think it depends on the piece to be honest. I dig oak and walnut furniture, I think maple makes great cabinets and things that will be hung on the wall.

I don't really care for ash for some reason. I also like painted poplar furniture, but hate painting furniture


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## camps764

P.S. I didn't really care for cherry at all until I saw the moser catalog. Up until then the pieces I saw in cherry that I thought were exceptional were few and far between. I was always more impressed by the craftsmanship on cherry pieces than I was by the cherry wood….if that makes any sense.


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## Pezking7p

I grew up thinking of cherry as that darkly dyed red crap that is probably maple or alder. I liked it. But as I've aged , and seen some more furniture, I've come to love the natural wheat/amber color of new cherry, and I really love the old, aged reds. I like the colors of cherry a lot, is what I'm saying. The grain pattern can be really hit or miss. But then again, that seems to be the case with most woods.

I wish the fiancée liked oak better. I think I can make a convert out of her…I have a sideboard planned for the distant future.


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## BigRedKnothead

Dan, has your fiance seen qtrsawn oak done right? I've had several friends tell me they don't like oak….until they see my living room. What they mean is, they don't like the plainsawn golden oak style that has dominated kitchen cabinets and furniture marts alike for the past 30 years.

I like oak, but for furniture, I really feel it's meant to be quartersawn. Look at oak antique furniture, the vast majority is quartersawn. They knew what looked good!. Yes, quatersawing logs creates more waste. But making a bunch of crap furniture that people with throw out in 10 years is even more wasteful.

I like all the major american hardwoods; walnut, cherry, maple, oak (quartersawn). It's interesting how they go in and out of trend.

As Dan alluded, cherry gets a bad rap because of all the knuckleheads that stained it dark….trying to imitate aged cherry. Then, the stained cherry does its thing and darkens….now you've got really dark cherry. Just like walnut, it only takes a little oil or varnish, and you've got a beautiful wood.

Ya, I'm opinionated. But you guys already knew that;-)


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## Pezking7p

I was so sure that she was misguided about oak that I took her through a stickley showroom. It was a depressing affair. On occasions, she will say she "doesn't hate" an oak piece, or that she actually could like something. I think if I made a piece that was more decorative, like a sideboard, she would love it.

She was really dead set against undyed cherry bedroom set until she saw the end table I'm making now. As soon as she saw that she was in love.

The good news is that she really loves walnut. I guess that could be bad, lol.


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## BigRedKnothead

Well, at least you've got cherry and walnut! And neither need to be stained….or shouldn't be imo.

Wait til your table ages with some sunlight. It's wonderful. I should take a pic of my cherry hutch now to compare 3 years later.


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## dbray45

Cherry does a nice job darkening. Depending upon the type of cherry, it can go dark or it can go toward the red spectrum.

Original:









4 years later:









Used 6 coats of Minwax tung oil finish (customer request)


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## jmartel

Count me as one who doesn't care for oak. Quartersawn is better than plain sawn, but it is still pretty low on my list. Walnut is my favorite, followed probably by cherry.

I really would like to make a sideboard, but we just don't have the space (or need) for one.

Hoping to start working on a pair of end tables in walnut to match my coffee table this week. Just gotta make sure my tenon jig is up and running, and to start a cutting board for someone first.


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## Pezking7p

The good news is you can tell if it's red cherry when you buy it. That piece above turned really red!

I must say, that tenon jig looked very cool. I luckily made it through the couple of M&Ts on my side table, but I'm sure that I need a better strategy when I go to make the TV stand. I'm torn between making a jig for my TS and hand cutting.

Oh well, it's become clear that I need a bench before I go any farther, so that will be next anyway. What I really need is MORE TIME.


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## BigRedKnothead

Dan, don't rule out a dado blade and miter sled for tenons. I've been doing it that way for years. Here's a good video. 
http://www.woodsmith.com/magazine/extras/173/tenons-on-the-table-saw/


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## lysdexic

I am not a WW veteran but I have done all my tenons, thus far, with table saw, miter sled and shoulder plane.


----------



## mds2

Hey, are there any Lincoln, NE area lumberjocks here with a drum sander? I need some things sanded to thickness for an end table. Approximately 17.5" wide. I will pay for time, sanding belts, etc.


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## CFrye

I've been drooling over the Moser catalogue all weekend Slyy. 
Quarter sawn red oak is my favorite furniture wood (to look at, since I haven't built any yet). Love the rays and flecks!! However, I grew up thinking maple was blah medium brown due to the stained set in the living room. Never knew figured maple (or any kind of woods) existed until a few years ago.


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## camps764

MDS - you might want to check with Delayne Peck on here…he might have the hookup.


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## ToddJB

I'm currently very partial to knotty alder. I like the rustic look of it.


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## Pezking7p

You've really gotta commit to "knotty" or any rustic pieces. It's hard to have just one in a room, in my opinion. I think slab tables strike a nice balance between rustic and "classy" furniture. I would LOVE to make a slab table some day.


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## mds2

Camps, thank you. Pm sent.

Here is what I have in the works.


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## BigRedKnothead

Todd- I really liked the look of the knotty alder piece I made last year. But man, that stuff is softer than I previously thought. I get frustrated with any wood that dings up so easily.

mds2- If that doesn't work out, local cabinet shops are usually pretty good about that sort of thing. Having a hard time figuring out what your doing with that teaser pic.

Finally got a few hours of shop time today. Built a small towel cabinet for a friend. Begrudgingly, it's made of plainsawn red oak. 
Some of the action:








-








-








-








-

Just the door and top left to make. Every once in a while friends or family hit me up for something like this because they can't find what they want at the borg or whatever. I don't make much off this kind of stuff, but I don't mind.


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## Pezking7p

At least it's easy to make. And it spreads the word around. What's the dado for on the face frame? Is it a door or something?


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## lysdexic

Plywood Red?


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## BigRedKnothead

Dan- The dados are for the sides of the cabinet. They mate snugly there with glue. Makes for a fairly strong case. The back is fitted in rabbets milled in the sides. That's pretty much how I would make kitchen cabinets I guess.

Scotty- ya, it's just 1/2" ply. Nothing fancy. At least its furniture grade ply instead of particle board like they would've gotten at the borg. I had dreams of a solid wood dovetailed case….but that was out of their budget. Guess I'll have to do that for mine;-)


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## Pezking7p

And pocket screws. Somewhere a secret council is deciding his fate.


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## BigRedKnothead

^Oh brother;-) I use 'em if that's all the budget allows. Actually, I don't think they're out of line for simple cabinets. Pocket screws in Quality furniture? No.


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## lysdexic

I am not averse to plywood. It has its strengths and its place. I just need to find a place around here that will sell it retail.


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## jmartel

Getting ready for a pair of end tables.










Should be starting this week on them.


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## Pezking7p

Just kidding about the pocket screws. Do you seated the case is the dados, you must have added top/bottom dados later? That's what confused me.

Kmart that's some fine looking lumber. I'm ready to live vicariously through your work!


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## jinkyjock

Hey BigRed, before you and Pez beat yourself up any more about pocket screws…....I used to work in a commercial environment making medium/high-end kitchens/bedrooms etc. All of our cabinets were just butted & screwed together except where a panel was visible and these had a biscuit/slip-feather. Same construction as yourself, rebate in back for back panel, usually 18mm AA veneered MDF finished with 2/3 coats pre-cat or AC lacquer. Doors were usually solid with rail & stile construction (floating panel) of matching wood. When they were installed they looked top-drawer. I think my point is that if the methodology is appropriate for a situation, doing it to a high standard compensates to some extent. And from what I have seen you guys have no worries on that account. However I will concede that now that I am no longer in that environment I do hanker after the odd dovetail…........


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## camps764

Currently doing a rehab/refinish on an old piece of furniture that came out of my grandma's kitchen.

It's a painted piece, not terribly fine woodworking.

I'm curious to get some feedback/ideas from my furniture making brothers and sisters.

The cabinet features two doors on the top that have panes of glass in them. Whoever built it the first time had the glass held in using four small chunks of scrap and some small finish nails.

Now that I've taken those out, looking for something a little more effective.

Ideas on how to secure the glass in the doors? Pieces of scrap and finish nails again? Glaziers points?

Here's a photo to give you an idea of what I'm workin with.


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## Airframer

I hate to say it but… might be time to build a "Big Boy" workbench ;-)


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## DanKrager

Steve, a traditional glass door often had a tiny bead (spaghetti size or smaller) of glaziers caulk laid in the dado before the glass was pressed (carefully) into it. If it is hot, so much the better. Then a 1/4" or 5/16" quarter round was tacked on the back side all around. Sometimes mitered corners, sometimes coped. I've also seen a few glaziers points under the quarter round, which I think is a good idea. 
The glazing keeps the glass from rattling when the door moves. A glazed glass door has a richer sound when it shuts, too. The glaziers points help transfer the shock of closing to the wood frame instead of loosening the tacked quarter round. 
That's what I've encountered in my repair career, and what I have done with glass doors I've made.
DanK


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## camps764

Eric - it's on the list man….

Dan - Thanks! That's exactly what I was looking for. I've done windows in exterior doors that way…but never really replaced glass in a piece of furniture. Everything you described makes perfect sense. I appreciate the insight.


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## BigRedKnothead

DanK is the man.

Jinky- I hear ya about kitchen cabinets and pocket screws. I remodeled a few kitchens back in the day, and I catch myself snooping around various cabinets to see how their made. My inlaws have some of the finest cabinets I've seen at their place. Solid pecan on all the faces/doors. The cases are all ply, no particle board. Drawers are solid maple with machine dovetails. But yet….the face frames still have pocket screws. It's just too much of a time saver for cabinet makers it seems.

Reminds me, we have a really high end neighborhood down the road from my house. Houses spring up slowly there because the owner/builder only builds one home at a time, and he insists on doing all of the woodwork. Anyway I have made some pieces for friends in that neighborhood. Of course, one day delivering a piece I had to check out this builders kitchen cabinets. The outside appearance was great. I opened a drawer and couldn't believe what I saw. The drawer boxes were melamine particle board with a butt joint:








Much like this. Just brads holding the joint. These are 500k+ homes. Wow.


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## Pezking7p

Steve, someone on here made a beautiful walnut hutch, and held the glass in place with only colored silicone caulk.

Red, most people will never notice how their furniture is made. Sad .


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## CL810

Rojo, makes you wonder how someone who could afford the house would tolerate such work. Were they playing hangman while they built the cabinets?

Interesting LJ & project.


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## BigRedKnothead

Ya Clayton, my curiosity stemmed from one couple who wanted a house there, but didn't want him to do the woodwork.. The builder stood his ground, they built elsewhere. 
I don't know man. It the premier neighborhood in our town. There's a good thirty houses that way. I'm not sure if those folks just don't know any better. Upon opening those drawers, I bit my tongue out of respect….but it was tough. I'm so gonna sneak a pic next time.

Wow, this is a formidable design. Thanks for pointing it out.


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## Hammerthumb

Legs are hexagons. Should help with the geometry. Very nice work and lots of imagination.


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## camps764

I think you hit it on the head Red..they don't know any better. I know before I started building furniture I had no idea what to look for in the details of furniture. As long as it held together and didn't look like it was made out of cheap stuff I was happy. Now those little details like nailed drawers and true M&T construction matter…before now…not so much.


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## ShaneA

I guess the finer points of drawer joinery is not on most people's radar. Woodworkers are going to be interested in that sort of stuff, but not the average Joe. I probably didn't even know what a dovetail was 12 yrs ago.


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## jinkyjock

Hi Guys, I am making drawers RIGHT NOW as part of my workshop re-furb for a storage unit and a mitre-saw station. 12mm MDF for front/side/base, pinned & screwed, 2 coats primer; 18mm mahogany ply fronts with scrap Pine fore-edge, 2/3 coats water-based floor varnish I got on offer from local contractors' supplier. Will post pics asap.


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## CFrye

Looking forward to it Jinky. Yesterday was Day 1 for a dovetail a day for 30 days. Hubby tasked me with building a cabinet for his (new to us) radial arm saw. Not sure if he's going to be patient enough to wait! LOL


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## john2005

You got this Candy!


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## BigRedKnothead

Agreed guys, unless folks have an interest, they might not know quality cabinets or furniture. I've come across a few people who thought the dovetail was invented with the router.

I spent time watching so a few highland woodworker videos today. I really enjoyed the interview with Jim Tolpin. He's a wonderful woodworker and author. Here's the link if your interested. 
If you want to skip to the part with Tolpin, it's at 23:30 on the video.

I rather enjoyed the quote, "oh, it is okay to be highly educated, and to work with your hands." 
And his synopsis of his latest book, By Hand and Eye. I'm still working through that book, but I like it so far.

I still need to pick up his book on traditional cabinetmaking.


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## Pezking7p

Skip the cabinetmaking book. Would not recommend it.

EDIT: actually I'll send you my copy if you like.


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## CFrye

Thanks for the encouragement John! And thanks for the link, Red. Will definitely check it out after work. 
On a side note…hubby and I were antiquing several years ago and found a dry sink with very unusual drawer joinery. 








Research told us this is a Knapp joint. The first machined 'dovetail' joint. Charles Knapp developed it in the mid to late 1800's and revolutionized factory building of furniture. Just as strong as traditional dovetails. The only reason it fell out of favor when they figured out how to machine 'regular' dovetails is people wanted the hand made look!


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## theoldfart

Candy, I have a couple of drawers from a turn of the century safe with the same dovetails.


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## DanKrager

I've studied and studied on how this joint was made, and finally found the machine pictured in enough detail I could figure it out. The drawer front part is easy to figure out, but the drawer side? Not so much. I'd share the link but this was a LONG time ago and I have lost the bookmark. It is pure genius. Somebody will find the pic.
In all the years of repair work I did in the east, I never saw a drawer with this joint in need of repair. The joint must last forever. Restoring one of those old machines would be a hoot, wouldn't it?
DanK


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## camps764

I did a small dresser refurb for a dresser we found on the curb with the trash one day. The drawers were done that way. The rest of the thing was beat into smithereens…those joints were still tight.


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## jinkyjock

"A Dovetail a day", what a brilliant idea Candy. Sounds almost therapeutic if not medicinal.


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## CFrye

Thanks Jinky. Not my idea. Red shared it from a book, can't remember the name.


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## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I think Schwarz recommended a "dovetail a day for 30 days" in The Joiner and the Cabinetmaker. Of course, many of his ideas, or mine for that matter, are just passed down. That's how it goes with a craft.

Dan, is this the book you have?








If so, I'll take you up on that. Maybe we could make a swap.


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## JADobson

I've been wanting to build furniture for a long time and have been waiting till I can afford nice hardwoods but that day is still far away. So I've decided to start building what I want in what I've got. And that is SPF.

So I'm building a reproduction of the Stickley Taboret #562.
Here is a finished one made by someone else:









Mine obviously won't look that good because it is my first furniture project and it will be made of spf. Anyhow. Here is my lumber all cut to dimensions and ready to go:









Now time to start chopping mortises. I wasn't sure whether or not to do mortises first or tenons. So I flipped a coin and got mortises first. What order does everyone else do them? I finished chopping the mortises on one leg (all by hand):









So far I've learnt that it is really important to lay out your lumber so your mortises miss the knots. It was a lot of work chopping through that knot. More to come once I'm done chopping the mortises in the other legs. Thanks for looking.


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## CL810

Looks like a fun build JA. Enjoyed these pics and look forward to more. I like mortises first as well. Feel like I have more/better control over the tenon than I do the mortise.


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## BigRedKnothead

Atta boy Mr. Dobson- work with watcha got! Never know, you make couple things like that and somebody asks, "How much to make me one?" Bam!....you've got more lumber money

As a general rule, I think most do mortises first for the reason Clayton noted. The exception would be when using a router or mortising machine because those should be able to make the exact same mortise time and again. 
That said, even when I use my mortising machine, I machine the tenons slightly oversized and plane to fit.


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## Pezking7p

That's the book, Red. PM me your info and I'll send it your way!

JA nice looking mortises. Seems to be coming along nicely.


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## BentheViking

man I go away for a week and the thread blows up


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## Pezking7p

Ok, the house is 90% clean and I've got a fresh pot of coffee. Come hell or high water, I'm getting a coat of finish on the end table tonight.

Step one, dados for table top cleats.


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## JohnnyStrawberry

Kitchens? Interesting findings, Red.
How about this. A very good friend of mine was having a conversation with a "professional "cabinet maker"" (note the double quote…), in a pub, you know. And he talked about my kind of all wood furniture. All he got from this guy was 'how crude and ugly that must be'. :-D He (my friend) was laughing as well.
Well, can be… (...) But I woudn't like to be around for as long as these cabinets probably will.
So I hate to say but some of the so called pros are as much ignorant as their customers…


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## JADobson

Quick question for you guys. My first four mortises turned out great. I've moved on to the second leg and the wood must be a little more brittle as I'm having a lot of trouble keeping the top on the mortise. Sorry, I'm not sure how better to explain it but here is a picture:










The top portion that is broken off is only 1/4" thick and I think the pine is just too soft to hold up to the chisels. Any thoughts on how I could keep this from happening? In the end I suppose it isn't that important as the table top will cover it but I'll know that they aren't right.


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## theoldfart

JAD, it looks like your levering the chisel against the end walls of the mortise. Try not to take deep a chop with the chisel and reverse the direction of the chisel after going the length of the mortise. Also don't go right to the top end of the mortise, leave about 1/16-1/8" then pare it down rather than chop it. 
Hope this helps.


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## GMatheson

You could also leave the leg a little long so there is more wood above the mortise to to resist breaking. Then trim the piece to final length after the mortises are all cut.


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## knockknock

GMatheson has the correct answer. But as you already cut to length, you might try clamping a board on the end.

Edit: or you could try drilling a hole at that end of the mortise, and then pare like theoldfart suggests.


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## JADobson

Thanks guys. Next time I'll cut the mortises before I cut to length. I used knockknock's suggestion and clamped a board to the end. Worked great. Finished that mortise without any more breakage. I love this site.


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## Pezking7p

Well I failed miserably. I'm sooo close to having this thing assembled but the joinery turned out to be tricky.

JA I'm glad you got your mortises worked out. Chopping by hand is a great feeling eh?


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## david_larch

Some may remember a design review question I posted a few weeks back HERE for a stool I am making.

I thought up this stool so that I could have something to sit on while at my bench. This is also a prototype for a model that would be full counter or bar height. The top will be a danish cord weave that will pass through the slot that you see on the top stretcher. This has been a real fun project with lots of freestyling. You can see the "handle" on the end in the model, but I decided to delete it on this one. Also, and equally exciting I am taking delivery of a set of Auriou Rasps on Friday. Final fairing and finishing hopefully this weekend.


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## CFrye

Looking good David! Congrats on the new files!


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## terryR

A SET of Auriou rasps? Oh my…

Love the stool. I'm a basket maker, so love the sound of the cord weave. Sounds more comfy than mine!


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## SouthpawCA

My wife just ordered my complete wish list of Auriou rasps from Lie-Nielsen. Thanks to Deneb at LN for answering all my questions. I don't know when I'll get mine (my birthday is in a coule of weeks), but I'd love to hear about your experiences. Which rasps & grains did you get?


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## theoldfart

Auriou? I'm drooling.


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## david_larch

Well, a set may have been a bit of an overshot. I picked up three, but think they'll do well. 
9" Cabinet 10g
7" Modellers 13g 
10" Flat Combo. 5,9G
I am real excited to test drive them on the stool. I have some chairs coming up so the timng is great.


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## leopard887

Great looking design.


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## BigRedKnothead

David Larch- I enjoy that style of shaping and joinery. And ya, I can see how some nice rasps would help shape it to perfection


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## Slyy

Nice design David, hope you shows us the finished product when you're done.


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## terryR

Heck, THREE Auriou rasps would be a welcome addition to any shop IMO. I have a 10" Cabinetmaker's around 9gr., and two small rifflers that are awesome in tight spots.

My other hand-stitched rasps are Gramercys…and I'm sorry to say they are NOT the quality I originally thought. Not bad for the $75 price range, but I pulled the handle off my saw tote maker's rasp last week. No big deal to repair, but quality tools don't need repairs after a year or so.

I imagine this rasp would be useful in chair making, too, works great on pipes and spoons…no teeth on the reverse edge…










Don't know if many of you guys use Floats? But my wife got me an LN for my b-day, and a float is a completely different tool than anything I've held! Extremely Fast stock removal. The triangular teeth can even be re-sharpened using saw files. I've only collected 2 thus far, but they are great for cleaning up tight areas and leaving it flat for joinery…


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## TopamaxSurvivor

On LN web site, floats look like fine tooth vixen files. Do they leave a smother surface than a rasp? Cut faster than a course file?


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## terryR

The teeth on those floats are around 6-10 tpi if memory serves, huge compared to a rasp. Removes wood 10 times faster than a rasp! Since the teeth are all the same height, the finished surface resembles a card scraper's. Nice and smooth. Add a handle for my 5 thumbs to grab, and I love the guys for small spaces! Night and day difference over a file. Expensive, yes.


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## niftynoel

Man, do I love this Furniture thread. You guys are great craftsmen.


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## BigRedKnothead

^Thanks niftynoel. Welcome to LJs.

Terry- I intended to try out some floats and rasps at the toolworks event I went to last year, but I forgot. The LN area was pretty crowded anyway.

Not a whole lotta action in my shop of late. The railroad has been going gangbusters. Good for the economy, bad for my woodshop. Now I know what the rest of the hobbyist woodworkers feel like. I've got about 5 things going on, but nary the time to finish any of them.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

Thanks TerryR, Sound like they may be better than a rasp for shaping rifle stocks. Ever done any figured wood like curly maple with a float?


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## terryR

Oh, Topomax, I'm sorry, I should've been more clear when I mentioned the float use. I've never used them to shape wood like the middle of a mallet handle,,,I use rasps for stuff like that ( or Dremel or spokeshave). The floats excel at cleaning up tenons, mortices, little joinery type areas. Teeth only on one edge to keep square stock square.

Would love to see some of your rifle stocks. All my firearms have wooden handles, well, except the AR.


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## SouthpawCA

So, I thought I'd post my latest piece of furniture here before I put it on the projects page. Awhile ago I was commissioned to make new park benches for my community. The 3rd bench has been placed. The homeowners association liked the first 2 benches, so they completely re-landscaped an area for the 3rd bench. Looks good.

This bench also has a new outdoor finish I haven't tried until now. I saw Hemp Shield advertised a few times and thought I give it a try. Customer service was awesome answering all my questions. I hope the finish lasts longer than the previous big box finishes I put on the first 2 benches.


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## DanKrager

That is one nice looking bench, Don. I wonder what it would look like in hedge?
DanK


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## BigRedKnothead

Awesome job on those Don. Added to favorites. I'd like to make some outdoor furniture out of white oak someday.


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## jinkyjock

Great job on the benches. Question, I notice the feet are located on some kind of metal plate, is this a security measure, or to reduce moisture absorption through end-grain, or both. Once again well done.


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## camps764

very awesome benches! I'm favoriting these as well.


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## camps764

Question for my furniture making brothers and sisters…

I posted this as a forum topic, but thought it might help to toss it out here as well for visibility.

Question for the masses. I have been building a waterfall style table for a friend…the kind where the grain wraps 90 degrees down the leg like Elwood89's table here…










He has requested a bar top epoxy finish for the table. The problem is, I'm not really sure how to apply it to the leg.

The top is easy, pour on, let it level and use a torch to pop any air bubbles…

Should I finish the leg and the top separately? Mask off the Leg and finish the top and then the leg after top has cured?

The big concern getting the finish even at the 90 degree joint. If I finish separately I'm concerned there will be a ridge. Never worked with epoxy as a finish so I'm not sure how easy it is to sand and get it clear again….

Any ideas are appreciated as I'm pretty stumped.


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## SouthpawCA

The bench is bolted to the concrete slab. I made the attachments out of 1/4" aluminum and those are screwed to the bottom of the legs with stainless steel screws. Basically, it's so the benches stay put, but it does keep the legs high and dry.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

terryR, Thanks for the clarification . There are a couple I made for NRA Silhouette competition in my projects. I made a full length Kentucky rifle 40 years ago, but I don't have it any more. I'm retiring fully at the end of the month and intend to make some flintlocks.


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## ScomelBasses

Here's a sofa table I just completed.


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## JADobson

That is a great looking bench Don.

My taborette is coming along slowly. I only get in one or two mortises a day. I'll get some more photos up soon.


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## BigRedKnothead

Scomel- Very nice job on that!

Steve- sorry, I've yet to use that bar finish stuff. My first inclination would be to do each side separate. Then prop it up so both surfaces are about 45….and last coat to finish the seam. But I'm just shootin from the hip.


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## Pezking7p

You could tape or glue on a rim to hold the epoxy on only the surface your finishing, like a bathtub. I think when all is said and done you'll be buffing out the finish anyway so you'll have an opportunity to level out mistakes. But, like red, I'm just making this up.

Man the slow forum is killing me.


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## stan3443

The problem with epoxy is it doesn't work very well on vertical surfaces. I would brush a thin coat on the leg then pour the top. after its dry stand it up and pour a thin coat on the leg being very carful at the miter about it running down the top. The one thing about epoxy finishes you have to make Shure the top is perfectly level both ways and no dust or flies for 12 hours. Don't ask how I know. If you have never worked epoxy I would make a small mock up and test your pouring skills. It is expensive stuff. Never tried buffing it out


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## Pezking7p

Scomel, the table looks very nice. I actually like the slats. Brings something for your eye to look at.

After a long, long time, countless screw ups and redos, and much hand wringing, my Thos. A Moser copy is ready for finishing. I've learned so much, and I realize now that furniture is soooo much more complicated in execution than in theory. What seems like it should take 5 minutes can turn into a 2 hour endeavor.

So here are some pics in my indoor finishing room/gym. The lighting is very cold but in the sunshine the cherry is really gorgeous. Tonight she'll get her first coat of oil based poly.


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## CL810

Nice build Scomel. I like the slats.

Pez, it came together real nice.


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## BigRedKnothead

Pez- nice job. That design was worth copying.

Here's how my shop time today went:









Made in China crap. A lot of folks are high on these Jet K-clamps. I've had nothing but trouble with mine.


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## theoldfart

Red, stick with Jorgy's. I've got eight of the cabinet masters and twenty something of the bar clamps and never had any problems with any of them. During the bench top glue up I cranked the parallels so hard I grooved the bar! Had to file them.


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## BigRedKnothead

^Agreed Kev. Bessy's are pretty good too. I generally don't like clamps with wood handles- they're slippery. But wood might hold up better than this plastic crap.

Most of my Jet clamps came as a promotion when they were giving a pair of k-clamps with a machine. I've only "paid" for one set. I'll be buying something else in the future.


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## jinkyjock

Further to last week's discussion about drawer construction, I have just finished some drawers for my new Mitre-saw station and thought to drop them in for perusal/comments/suggestions, cheers.








































Drawers are 12mm MDF, screwed and pinned, 2 coats primer. Fronts are 18mm ply with pine fore-edge, 3 coats (water-based) varnish. Handle 100×20x20(mm) pine.
Will make (all) cabinet doors in same fashion at end of my re-furb and any feedback is appreciated. 
Have posted more pics on my blog re. the re-furb.


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## Pezking7p

Red, I think your clamps are weaker than normal due to having to buy the "mini" versions to match the rest of your shop. I actually bought 8 of those jet clamps at thanksgiving when they were 50% off. The action to slide them back and forth isn't as smooth as the besseys, but they seem to work. I guess I better take it easy on cranking down on the pressure though!

Re: drawers. I'm sure that structurally there is very little practical difference between screws or dovetails or lock rabbets etc etc. but aesthetically, I think the dovetails are hands down the coolest.


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## CL810

*Red*, thankfully I don't own any Jets but I've used them and dislike them for the poor slide action. Watch for Menard's Made in the USA sale they have twice a year. Usually the Jorgies are included. Unfortunately, not always the parallel clamps. I really like my Jorgies.


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## BigRedKnothead

^Good call Clayton.

Jinky- nice job on the shop drawers. You sure had some nice lookin ply for the drawer fronts. I'm thinkin' about some shop made drawer pulls similar to yours for my joinery bench cabinets.


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## leopard887

Nice design.


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## Pezking7p

From a furniture making standpoint, what do you look for in a drill press? Floor vs bench model? Tables? Vises? Power? What other features are important?

I think about these things when I start pondering my next big tool purchase. It's between a drill press and a band saw, and I know even less about band saws than I do about drill presses.


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## camps764

Pez….Just my two cents but I have a bench top model and it's….ok.

It's like most things in life, I've never looked at my drill press and thought "I am sure am glad it's small, I'd hate to have more room for drilling." If I did it over again I'd get a bigger one and make room for it. Depends on how much space you have in your shop I suppose.

I'd also get a drill press before a band saw. I have both, I got my bandsaw first thinking that I NEEDED to have one. It comes in handy once in a while, but mostly collects dust. I don't do a ton of work that has curves in it, so the bandsaw doesn't get too much of a work out. I also don't really resaw materials, and when I do, I do it on the table saw first and then finish it up on the bandsaw. Would be just as easy with a handsaw IMHO.

If I were outfitting my shop again knowing what I know now, I'd get a floor standing drill press first, then a band saw.

I've seen folks on this site with WAY more experience than me advise that you think about the kind of furniture you want to make and let that determine which tools you buy, and when you buy them. I think that's pretty sound advice.


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## BigRedKnothead

Pez- Another 2cents. I have a Jet floor model drill press. I think it was the 2nd machine I bought, but I'm pretty sure it the 2nd machine I bought. And I got 2 free Jet clamps….woohooo! Back then I didn't know what mortising machine was, otherwise I might have pushed back the purchase. I use a drll press a lot less now that I have a mortising machine. And I'm decent at drilling freehand.
I'm sure I could get by with benchtop model. But I have the space, and where I was looking, benchtop models weren't a lot cheaper. 
I think most drill presses have enough power for a woodworker. But don't think the ones with a round machinist-type table would be great for a woodworker. You'd want to build your own table.

I'd rather have a bandsaw than a drill press myself. It's how I cut all my curves, and I resaw quite a bit since I like to make my own solid panels. I believe grizzly and rikon are best values out there for these.

Tough decisions. Try to envision what your gonna make….what your gonna need. Then go from there. 
And if you can afford it, buy a good one and be done with it. It's cheaper in the long run.


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## jmartel

I have a HF bench drill press. Works well enough for me. I need to reseat the chuck as it's not completely vertical at the moment, but it does the job. Can stall it out on large diameter hole saw or forstner bits, but that is like 2"+


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## Pezking7p

Honestly, my next purchase will truly be a mortiser. I've had it with hand cut mortises. I would need to cut them a lot more to trust myself to cut them square and true. With as much time as I have to spend in the shop, this is a no-brainer.

So are you guys saying that aside from floor vs benchtop, features on a drill press don't really matter very much? Basically get the drill press with the best runout? I guess it's not much more than a motor for you to attach a chuck to….

Thanks for the input.


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## CL810

Pez, I can't comment on bench top vs. freestanding as I've only had a freestanding drill press. But I think a critical consideration is length of travel. My Steel City DP has 6" of travel and it's a feature I have come to really appreciate. It really simplifies some tasks.

As to the DP vs bandsaw, man, that's a tough call. I use both a lot and I can't imagine being without either.


----------



## jmartel

You also want a large swing on it so you can reach deeper into the workpiece if needed. Mine doesn't have that great of a reach. Works fine most of the time, but on occasion I have to drill by hand instead.


----------



## camps764

Pez - I was in the same boat about a year ago for the mortiser - in fact I remember texting Red about it last Summer.

I ended up staying patient and found a great used one on Craigslist for about $100. Honestly, it's been a tremendous asset in the shop. Well worth the money.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Pez- I recenlty saw an LJ picked up this Baleigh benchtop mortising machine. I have no experience with it. But man, that table looks twice and stout and precise as any benchtop model I've seen. Looks more like the stand alone mortising machines. One to consider if you go new. But as Steve found, you can often find a used one for cheap.

The towel cabinet I was building for friends is done. Even when making a "budget" piece, I can't help put put extra effort into making a nice, solid panel door. Details like that cost "time and money" as they say. But in my experience….people notice. And it often generates more work.


----------



## camps764

turned out nice dude, way to go the extra mile


----------



## WayneC

Looks really nice Red.

R.e. Clamps. You would have a hard time separating me from My Bessey K Body clamps.


----------



## Sgaffin

I am excited about this forum. However with my current project list being kitchen cabinets and then built in (in between rough carpentry, finish carpentry, and house exteriors) I think it will be a while until I can post a project I am working on. My future project will definitely be a man chair ( I am super excited about that) and a set of drawers for myself built from the Christopher Schwarz's new Campaign Furniture book.


----------



## Pezking7p

Cabinet looks great red. It's hard to let details like solid panelling go, and people appreciate it, even if they don't know exactly why they know it's nicer furniture.

What is this "man chair" you speak of?


----------



## ToddJB

Red, towel cab looks great. Good job. How are the drawers for the bench coming?


----------



## Sgaffin

"What is this "man chair" you speak of?"

Every guy needs "his" chair. The Man Chair. Not sure what I will be making, yet but I have some favorites.

Mine will definitely be a lounging chair for in front of my entertainment center.

The Morris (I think this is quite expected)

The Eames Lounge ( I like the shape and size of the cushions so I will try to emulate a design like that

The Vladimir Kagan Contour Lounge










Or I might go super plush










Maybe a combination between the Morris and the super plush kind.

I also plan on building a Roorkhee chair for my outdoor transportable man chair.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Steven G- Gotta love the man chair. That's mine in the original post. Kitchen cabinets and built-ins are still pretty much on topic. Post away if you want.

How are the drawers for the bench coming?
Uhh…I've got one done. But hey, the dovetails look great! I just need to glue up and plane 'em flush. Of course these drawers have taken a back seat to stuff that actually pays the duckets.


----------



## SASmith

Pezking7p, Not sure if you have room for a shopsmith, but they are very good drill presses. With the added benefit of being horizontal boring machine and a descent lathe. I prefer the older 10er model. I have seen them on CL from $25 - $200.


----------



## Pezking7p

I was kind of half-way planning to do a morris chair, but that contour chair is sweeeeeet. So much finishing work, though. How do you even make joints like that? Rough it out with a band saw and then go to town with a spokeshave?

Rojo and Steven G, I'll be doing our kitchen cabinets (and whole kitchen remodel) sometime after the wedding, so mid-late summer. Maybe we'll end up with three of us doing kitchens at the same time.


----------



## Pezking7p

Scott, I see those things on CL all the time, but they are usually 500-600 bucks and look to be in horrendous condition. I always assumed they were kind of like the workmates of power tools. Having a lathe would be kind of cool, though…..


----------



## camps764

I've thought about picking up a shopsmith for those exact reasons. I think the horizontal boring part and the optional lathe would come in handy.

I've got a buddy that has one in his basement, I've tried to get it from him more than once.


----------



## SASmith

Maybe I just get lucky, but I have bought four on CL for $25-$200. The only reason I bought the $200 SS is because it had the optional speed reducer that is worth $150+ on ebay.

They will turn up to a 16" bowl or drill the middle of a 16" panel.


----------



## DanKrager

Pez, +1 on the ShopSmith for a drill press. It has all the features built in that you will eventually want on any drill press. I've used and love it for years before I got the SuperShop, a ShopSmith on steroids.
Right now I also own a Delta radial drill press. The advantages it offers are almost a 24" reach and a tilting head. I miss not being able to crank the table up and down, so be sure you test to see how much strain and trouble it is to move the table without a crank.

DanK


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## Sgaffin

Cool. Tonight I assembled the last of the simple carcasses just need to assemble the base and wall corner cabinets. I had some issue trimming the edge banding. I still need to make the shelves for the wall corner cabinet and finish them.

I never liked cabinets that are unfinished on the inside so I have put 3 coats of varnish on the inside of the cabinets pieces before assembly. It warped the plywood some but nothing that couldn't be undone when I assembled the boxes.

After that, face frames and installation.


----------



## jinkyjock

Steven, know what you mean about edge-banding, it can be a real pain. I use an old bit of (machine) Planer Iron, flat to surface of panel at a slight angle from outside to inside to support cut. Leave ends a little oversize, few light taps with a flat file, then break off and a couple of strokes with file to clean up. Good luck.


----------



## derekcohen

I have a chair build in progress. Started in in January and about 2/3 the way. An exact copy of Hans Wegner's "The Chair" - with hand tools.










I've had a few weeks away from the build, and I am about to get back to it this weekend. There are several reports on my website. Just scroll down this Index Page: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/index.html

Enjoy the build, and all comments welcomed.

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Derek. Thanks for posting.

I know your website has been referred to several times on this forum already. Keep up the good work.


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## Pezking7p

See, to me, furniture like that chair make a mockery of what I'm learning right now. I struggle to make square cuts on square pieces of furniture.

Meanwhile the real furniture makers are cutting tenons at 82 degrees, and oh, by the way, the shoulders wrap around a spindle with curves in multiple planes. My mind is still exploding. I can't stop looking at the blog, but I have to because I'm at work. 

Question: What do you guys use to prop up your work while you finish it? I've been nailing brads into scrap, but I'm not 100% pleased with this. Looking for better ideas.


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## camps764

I have used screws in a large piece of scrap 1/8 ply in the past.

I've also cut my own finishing triangles out of scrap in the past and still have them on hand to use once in a while.

I found some triangle bench cookie things at menards a while back, they have a finishing point on the end…they are terrible and tip over all the freaking time.


----------



## DanKrager

I saw a woodshop using a trick to support things while finishing that I thought was pretty cool and I adopted the practice. Take a 3/4" square stick of any length you find useful, cut a saw kerf lengthwise about half the thickness of the stick. Then snip or break a 1" (or smaller) resaw band to the same length as the stick and insert it teeth up in the saw kerf. Kink it to get it to stay. Used in pairs, the sticks sprouting 2 or 3 TPI hold the project being finished and produce minimal mark, just like brads or screws in scrap. They are cheap and quick to make and with a bucket full handy, finishing can proceed very quickly.
DanK


----------



## lysdexic

Dan, I sure would to see a picture of that.

See, I am just like Pez. Dan describes a blade stuck into a block of wood and…...BLAM!

Like popping bubble wrap. Mind blown


----------



## JADobson

Update on my side table.

Haven't got as much time in as I would have hoped but it is coming along nicely. Got all my aprons finished and one stretcher. My first couple of mortise and tenons were a bit loose but now I'm getting them nice and tight. Once all of this is finished I've got to figure out how to make the top out of 2×4s. Should be fun.









PS that is a sweet looking bowl Scott.


----------



## DanKrager

For your viewing pleasure, Lys.









DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, are you OK? I'm seeing bodily fluids and not those of a sexual nature.


----------



## Iguana

That's my first impression, too. Had to scroll back to figure out what you were posting, but it sure looks like some kind of medieval torture device that's been recently used.


----------



## theoldfart

Ok, now I get it.


----------



## DanKrager

No one (or more) was harmed in the making of that photo. It happens to be some oil base wood stain. It does look gory in the picture though. LOL.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

I didn't 't see any severed limbs, just wasn't sure.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

DanK….you rascal.

JDob- 2×4's it's doable. Hopefully you can find some clear sections. Remember to pay attention to grain direction on glue-up. At least it should be easy to flatten;-)

I really appreciated the latest Chris Schwarz blog:
http://blog.lostartpress.com/2014/03/23/whine-whine-the-future-of-the-craft-kvetch-and-worry/

I've had a couple revelations since I've been on LJs. First, I didn't realize that there would be so many young woodworkers on here. Many of my LJ "buddies" are in their 20's and 30's. Shoot, I buy saws from an LJ who is 16! I think this is wonderfully encouraging for the craft. I love learning from the older folks, but I don't want these things to pass with them!

The other surprise has been my desire to be advocate for the craft. If I had the means, I'd give free stuff to new woodworkers everyday. For now I share what knowledge I can. I give away or cheaply sell any excess tools and materials I can to new woodworkers. I do this all in hopes they will get "bit by the bug" and starting enjoying this as much as I do. I encourage you guys to do the same;-)


----------



## Pezking7p

JADobson, that table looks great. I love the grain. Careful on the op from 2×4's, it's going to want to move badly. I would strongly consider some KD pine from a lumber supplier for the top.

DanK, do you file down to teeth or hit them with a hammer or something to prevent them from marring the back of your work?

Red, I, too, was surprised by how young the community here is. It's good to see young folk getting in to crafts.

Since they closed down the woodcraft here, which was the only woodworking store in town (and it is a pretty large city!), I now have to drive an extra 15 minutes to get to a woodworking store. Well I drove all the way down there this weekend to pick up some General Finishes stuff, and lo and behold THEY HAD NONE! When I asked a sales clerk, he told me general finishes has had some kind of supply interruption, and to expect stock soon. Has anyone heard about this or know anything about it?

I ended up buying some watco satin poly, which hopefully works well. End table should be completely finished soon. Also, finishing something that you've put so much work into is very nerve wracking!

At a furniture store not long ago, I came across a pop-up coffee table, and at first I said "gosh, that is hokey". But after a few moments I realized just how often I: eat at my coffee table, work at my coffee table, or wish that my coffee table was more like a normal table. Now I want to make one of these. Anyone made one before?


----------



## DanKrager

There's a reason these blades are disposed. They are DULL! And polished. No need to "hammer" them. The heavier the piece to finish, the more of these I use so the pressure is spread widely. No marks unless I spray the back first and turn it over before it's dry. 
DanK


----------



## lysdexic

You got me too Dan. I had forgot about my request to see your "painter pyramids." I gringed when I saw the pic and thought we were getting launch into a tale a pain and injury. Glad that it is not so.

Band saw blade in a block of wood. Simple now that I see it.


----------



## Iguana

Pez,

Haven't made one of those tables, but have used one my folks have. Very useful, and on my build list. Lee Valley sells the hardware: http://www.leevalley.com/en/Hardware/page.aspx?p=40573


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Pez, with the right hardware….very doable.

Man, you guys gotta check this out. LJ Pintodeluxe took a leather upholstery class to make his own morris chair cushions. Very cool.

http://lumberjocks.com/pintodeluxe/blog/40450


----------



## Iguana

JDob - I built this stool out of 2×4s. Just finished it this morning.










2×4s are kiln dried, but not to the same moisture content that furniture grade lumber is. You need to let it dry out further in your shop and it will bend and twist in the process.

I had made the seat slab about 3 years ago for a different project and ended up not using it at that time. I had picked the 2×4s, let them dry out for 3 months in my shop before gluing up the board. Flattened it at that time. Over the last 3 years it had cupped about 3/16". I could have avoided some of that by alternating growth ring orientation, but that would have resulted in a different look. Took some planing to get it flat, fortunately the beetle-kill pine is real easy to work.


----------



## Iguana

I thought I'd post this as a spectacular piece of furniture design. Has absolutely nothing to do with wood, but it might provide some inspiration:

http://www.contemporist.com/2014/03/26/onyx-sofa-by-pierre-gimbergues-for-peugeot-design-lab/


----------



## terryR

^Oh my…a sofa carved from lava and carbon fiber! I shudder to think of shipping costs, but I bet the cats won't scratch it! 

Thanks for sharing that link, Mark. Loved watching the guys work with hammer and chisel on the lava!


----------



## JADobson

Mark, 
that stool looks great. Almost all the pieces on my table are laminated together so they haven't warped to any noticeable effect yet. I've just been given a bunch of term papers to mark and I'm on a deadline so I won't be working in the shop this weekend.


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## Pezking7p

I think the design aspects of that sofa are definitely appropriate for this thread. After all, we spend probably half our efforts when making furniture trying to make it pleasing to look at.

Finally finished my end table. I wouldn't have been able to complete this table, or make it look half as good as it does, without the help of all the people in this thread. Thanks for helping me get started down the path of furniture making!!!!


----------



## DanKrager

Looking good, man!
DanK


----------



## jinkyjock

Pezking7p, further to my comments on your sweet little table on your project page.
Couple of pics of a coffee table I made 8/9 years ago which has been in living-room since.
Beginning to get a little bit beat up and I was thinking of sanding back and re-finishing.
















Sorry about the picture quality, took it with my mobile and prob need a new one. 
This table is also from Cherry and with the same type of leg taper.
Once again, well done and all the best for future projects.


----------



## jinkyjock

Found a couple of pics of table when new.


















Hope this is a clearer image.


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## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff guys. It's fun to watch that cherry age.

Not getting a whole lotta shop time of late. But I'm still going dovetail crazy when I do. The drawers for the joinery bench have been great practice. I've still been using the guide quite a bit, but I often attempt the pins freehand. This one turned out pretty darn good:









-
Last year I had a roubo and a couple pieces of furniture built by now. Just the ebb and flow I guess.


----------



## WhoMe

Uh Oh Red, supply outstripped demand? Or did you just get burnt out…lol

no Wonder you have not posted a recent tool purchase. It is still early in the year. Something will come up.


----------



## camps764

Red - I hear ya man. With the weather finally turning nice me and the kiddo have been outside more in the evenings instead of in the shop. Turkey season just opened as well, and I know that will impact the amount of time I spend in the shop.

Not enough hours in the day.


----------



## Pezking7p

Jinky, it's surprising how similar our tables are. Looking very good.

Red, Those DT's are looking SWEET brother. That must be really light walnut? We have to take the time we can get and use it the best we can! You must be off today, what's on the list?

Camps, I here you on not enough hours. I need to find a way to work 4-10's or get on a shift so I can have 3-4 days off per week. Not enough time to pursue all the hobbies.

Question for the panel, would you rather have a LN rabbet block plane, or a shoulder plane? I am leaning towards the block plane, and plan to use it mainly for tuning tenons.


----------



## b2rtch

I like the "extendable" coffee table, my wife could use one to work on her laptop.
How do the arms under the top retract and fold in?


----------



## jmartel

Bert, It looks to me like they are solid arms with pivot points on the top and on the bottom of the case. So, you would just push the top horizontally (and slightly upward) and it would swing down until the top is contacting the case. The arms would be resting at an angle, what looks to be about 30 deg to me inside.

So, the point of that is, they don't fold. They rotate which raises/lowers the table top.


----------



## Pezking7p

Bert, You can go one of two ways:

1: Buy the hardware. http://www.amazon.com/Selby-Hardware-Spring-Assisted-Pop-Up-Table/dp/B0006LBUMA
Rocker has some. I'm sure there are several different manufacturers, but as you can see, it ain't cheap!

2: Make it yourself. I wrote out a complicated explanation, but here's a pic that makes it really simple. 

















Now you've got me thinking about it, and I want to make some furniture, dangit.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dan- That's kinda what I was thinking. There's hardware out there, but a guy could make is own if he wanted. It's fairly simple swing arm. Anyway, my dovetailed drawers are maple, but they will be getting some walnut fronts.

Rabbet block or shoulder plane? I would sure go with the rabbet block first. The rabbet block can function as a shoulder plane. I used mine for that purpose before I even knew what a shoulder plane was. A shoulder plane on the other hand, is kind of a one trick pony. If I had to pick one joinery or block plane to keep….it would be the rabbet block.

Mike- actually I have work waiting, but I'm putting so many hours on the railroad right now I haven't even had time to meet with folks. Not much I can do about it right now. Last year was by far my most productive year in my shop. Guess it can't always be that way.


----------



## Airframer

Red- just a fantasy question but would you say that you have enough work waiting that this year could potentially be more productive than last year IF you had the shop time to put in? If so it kinda sounds like you are in the transition period of working for the "Man" and justifying less work for the man and more work for yourself…. livin' the dream bud… livin' the dream.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Still chuckling Eric. I had to read that a couple time to grasp what your saying….but it's difficult to say. As far as my "real" job goes, I rather enjoyed the recession (stop throwing tomatoes). I had made some good money in the past, and I wanted it to slow down. I wanted time off. Plus I had enough seniority that I didn't have to worry about getting furloughed. Now with things picking up, I can't get much time off…even with my seniority. This job has always been very famine or feast. Oh well.

Also, it's tough to say if commissions would keep lining up like they did last year. But I know I would be working away in that shop if I were able. Really I've got enough lumber and ideas for my shop and home to keep me going for a while.


----------



## Hammerthumb

It's been a while since I updated the jewelry/keepsake box I made for my wife. The first of the year did not start so well for me and I did not have much time in the shop, or have much time to post pictures. Here is a few pictures of the completed project. These were taken before I put the feet under it. I think I have those at home (at work right now) and will post those on my projects page sometime this week. Here goes:










I don't like the way the veneer came out on the top and plan to change that at some point:




























Thanks for looking.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jeeper Paul. That thing is outstanding.


----------



## CL810

Great work Paul. I like everything about it. Just beautiful.


----------



## lateralus819

Gorgeous nice job.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Definitely awesome Paul!! How much more to do?


----------



## Hammerthumb

It's finished. Just thinking about changing the veneer center on top. I'll post it in my projects later this week with pictures of it with shoes on.

Thanks for the compliments guys.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Looks like a Top 3 to me ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Looks great Paul.


----------



## JADobson

That is a beautiful box Paul. What's wrong with the top?


----------



## theoldfart

Clamp time with liquid hide glue, how long?


----------



## Hammerthumb

The center of the top is cherry plywood that I used for stability. It is surrounded with Ipe. I got the color of the cherry to match the Bubinga that I used for the drawer faces, but the grain pattern looks funny. I plan to remove the top layer with a router, and cut some veneer from my remaining Bubinga.


----------



## ShaneA

Whoa, Paul that thing is friggin' awesome.


----------



## lysdexic

Wow Paul. Very handsome piece. I would not have guessed the drawer faces were bubinga. I thought sapele.


----------



## Slyy

Paul, that thing looks great. Anxious to see completed form in your projects!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks for the compliments. Yeah, the faces are bubinga. You can see some quilting in the faces if you look close. I did tone down the red a little with tinted Danish oil and a dark paste wax. Colors don't really show to well with my camera. You need to come take pictures Scotty as your photog skills put mine to shame.


----------



## Pezking7p

Paul that thing is lookin sweet! The dovetails look tight tight.


----------



## WebErika

Wow Paul. That box is simply too good for words. Beautiful. Just want to echo everyone else's sentiments. Wife is lucky!


----------



## JonathanW

Kevin,

About an hour of clamp time for hide glue, but 24 hours for a full cure. You can do some work on it, but be gentle.


----------



## theoldfart

Johnathan thanks. I gave it about two hours. Should be ok for working this pm.


----------



## BentheViking

Haven't been on this forum in awhile (whole family caught a nasty virus last week)

I saw two things posted that I actually have old threads about that I figured I'd share here.

1) I too was surprised by the number of Young Woodworkers on here. This got some decent conversation going.

2) I have a friend who has an Ethan Allen cantilever top table so I asked about it. This one never really went anywhere, but it could be rediscussed if you guys would like


----------



## Pezking7p

Ben, your thread/question combination confused me re: ethan allen table. Are you still wondering how to make the brackets? Are you wanting to make a table top that has multiple "stop" positions so that it is somewhat adjustable?


----------



## BentheViking

i have no plans as to building one anytime soon (that post is a few years old), it was just something related I thought I'd share in case people wanted to have a discussion on it


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Crickets….hehehe. Ya Ben, I think the idea of the cantilever table is interesting too. I just don't have any other ideas or input unless I was trying to build one I guess.

I decided if I'm spending a lot of time at work or in hotels I may as well start planning and researching future projects. I 'm gonna make our bedroom set out of walnut. For a while now I've been kicking around the idea of a Greene and Greene set. I showed some pics to the wifey and I could tell she wasn't on board. My wife is pretty passive. She wouldn't fuss if I had my heart set on it….but I don't. So if it's gonna be our bedroom set for many years to come, we may as well both like it.

The options are wide open. I've got to get away from A&C. And for once, I'm confident enough not to need plans. I'd like to have a somewhat original design. We'll see.

Some inspiration:








-


----------



## Pezking7p

I like that dresser a lot. Seems like it's hard to break the mold eh? Especially when you see a piece you like, then you try not to copy it.


----------



## Airframer

I REALLY like that bed except it is really hard not to only see the glue line on the sideboards.. once you see it..


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I like those too. I should have given credit. The dresser is from Amana furniture's Cooper collection. Note the barrel curves.

Other is an LJ


I dig this one too. Without the carvings.


----------



## jmartel

Unfortunately, my wife is all about the rustic reclaimed stuff on Pinterest. So, to make her happy, that's what the bedroom furniture is going to be. I made a deal with her that I get to pick the furniture for the rest of the house though, so it's all going to be A&C, and maybe Greene & Greene touches here and there.


----------



## widdle

I like wher your going there red…This ones kinda cool..Matt Downer, does some killer work , check him out..


----------



## JohnnyStrawberry

That's all I can contribute.


----------



## CFrye

Paul, beautiful job on the jewelry box! Those half-blind dovetails are impressive.
Like the lines on the dresser, Red. The hardware, not so much. The grain on the bed is gorgeous!
Widdle, The slabs that Matt Downer uses are … wow! Thanks for sharing that.
Johnny, Really like the combo of live edge and the unusual joinery!


----------



## camps764

I really dig the curves on those pieces Dan.

Got some design questions for all of my furniture makin' brothers and sisters.

Rather than repost it here I'll just add a link to my forum post about.

Would love to see all of you weigh in with your thoughts and ideas.

Wall mounted table design questions


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks for some more great idea guys. It's gonna be hard to narrow down a design. Although, with a lot of these idea, the lumber availability and size is going to have an impact on the design.

Ya Widdle, the bed by Matt Downer is sweet.










Glued my first dovetailed drawer today. Went pretty well. The doves keep everything aligned nicely.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice work on the drawers Red. I to, like the bed and dresser, but do not like the pulls on the drawers. I have a bed project in the works, but unfortunatley because of storage, I think I'm going to have to put drawers under it.

Thanks for the compliment Candy. I found the pictures at home with the feet on it. Here is a couple. The feet were very difficult to make as the Ipe is so hard and splintery that I could not use a router bit for the bevel that I put on them. Hand tools don't work on Ipe very well either, so it was a belt sander and hand sanding.


----------



## b2rtch

Thank you all for your answers.
The rockler version has a spring in it.
What is the spring for?
I assume to keep the table open.
Correct?


----------



## Pezking7p

Red, feels like you're looking close at platform beds? Sets a pretty modern theme, I'll be interested to see what you do for the rest of the set.

Paul, simply gorgeous. I didn't know how hard it was to work ipe. I hate sanding bevels because it never goes like you plan.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Agree with that Pez. These actually came out ok. Wrecked the first set I glued up trying to do it with the router. The feet are "L" shaped, and then radiused the sharp corner with the bandsaw. When I went to router the bevel, i got half way around the corner and was going against the grain. Thats when you get the loud "bang" and a big chip flies out. I love to finish Ipe, but machining will either go real well, or real bad. Don't like to route it at all!


----------



## CL810

Paul I just can't stop admiring the finish you put on the jewelry box. Are going to post the box as a project and explain it?


----------



## Hammerthumb

I will soon. I had pictures of it here at work and some at home. Got them all together now. This project is very well documented. Lots of pictures. If I get time I might do a blog on it. Never done that before.

As far as the finish, I discovered that Ipef inishes real well with just oil and wax. It is so hard that sanding it to about 1000 puts a shine on the wood alone, and almost looks like it has finish on it. Danish oil brings out the colors, and a little wax gives it a little more protection, and a very natural tactile feel. I did the same with the drawer fronts, but colored the oil a little as I felt the bright red of the bubinga clashed with the darker Ipe. I also used Bison colored paste wax which I feel toned it down just enough. I have taken lots of pictures but don't think I have captured the color very well. All of the pictures were taken in my shop, and I want to try to get some better quality photos in my house to post in projects.

Thanks for the compliments Clayton, and all that have commented. I will try to get it in projects no later than this weekend.


----------



## fatandy2003

Paul, beautiful work!

Bert, I have one of those coffee tables that has a lifting top, and I must say, it is convenient. The springs help when lifting and closing the top. They put just enough tension to be an assist when you may have heavy stuff on the top and they help the top from slamming down once it is past its "tipping point." The top actually stays open once you have it about 90% of the way up due to the angles of the arms at that point. Hope that makes sense?

Cheers,


----------



## WhoMe

Now, those are cool designs Red. I mean, I can appreciate the A+C furniture like what you make and I like the G+G furniture a lot but it is just not what I see in my house.

Now the designs of the above are IMO, really cool, I like the flowing and non-square lines that furniture has.

And for those who like chairs and especially rocking chairs. Check out this Artist that has posted his Curly Maple and Wenge version of a Maloof inspired rocking chair. And he is from Canada…eh….
Love the combo of the woods of the main rocker and the second one out of Walnut and Quilted Maple. Cool stuff.


----------



## CFrye

AND he's a lumberjock!


----------



## camps764

AND he's a super nice guy (must be a Canadian thing).


----------



## Pezking7p

I find chairs to be very intimidating. One day I'm going to set out to make one (or 6).


----------



## Hammerthumb

Finally posted to my projects.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^That went straight to my favorites.

Well, tomorrow's my birfday. Work granted me a personal leave day, and I just finished gluing up my first set of dovetailed drawers. Suddenly I'm in a very good mood.


----------



## camps764

happy early birthday man. Enjoy!


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Happy birfday to you. Happy birfday to you. Happy birfday dear Re..e..e..e..d..d. Happy birfday to y..o..o. u..u!


----------



## theoldfart

Red, hippo birdy two ewes. ;-)

young whipper snapper


----------



## Hammerthumb

Happy birthday Red. Nice lookin drawers.


----------



## JADobson

Happy birthday Red. Drawers look great.

So I'm all finished the marking I had to do last weekend and I got laid off from my job (not a real problem, I was on contract and knew it was coming, and it wasn't a very good job) so I should have lots of time in the shop these next few weeks. Today I finished my legs, aprons, and stretchers. Put it together for a dry fit. It isn't perfectly square but close enough that once the top goes on no one will notice.


----------



## DanKrager

Happy birthday, BRK. Is the LN box waiting to be opened?
DanK


----------



## CL810

Red, you're at an age now when birthdays only count if they are divisible by 5. Have a good one!


----------



## Hammerthumb

That's a good one Clayton. I'm at the divisible by 10 age.


----------



## Pezking7p

Happy birthday red. Hope you get something good.

JADobson, table looks sweet. what are the dados for in the stretchers?


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## BigRedKnothead

I guess this one counts since I'm the Big 3-5! Does that mean my life is half over?

Dan, surprisingly no LN glory. Got some other fun stuff for the shop though.

If I ever have a mid-life crisis….it would probably look like this:


----------



## WayneC

Happy Birthday Sir.


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## JADobson

Hi Dan, there will be some panels set in them.


----------



## Iguana

Red, happy birthday!

That's a pretty fine mid-life crisis to aspire to right there. And much less expensive that trading in the wife for a younger model


----------



## jinkyjock

Happy birthday from Scotland BigRed, not half-over but starting the second-phase. Slainte Maith.


----------



## CFrye

Happy Birthday Red!


----------



## camps764

So I'm reading the "Building Furniture' issue (for the millionth time) from Fine woodworking, and it's raising all kinds of technique questions I want to discuss with my furniture makin' friends.

Rather than start a lot of forum topics, thought it might be fun to toss them out here.

I've already started one on the larger site….To hanuch or not to Haunch.

Here's a second question….Raised panel drawer bottoms, or not. In the article it says that high end drawers have raised panel bottoms in them. I'm scratching my head and wondering, outside of aesthetic value, what is the point in putting a raised panel into the bottom of a drawer. Does it add any strength? Allow for better movement? Or just look nice in a place that no one is probably ever going to look?

I personally dado a groove into the sides/back front of my drawers that is the full thickness of my drawer bottom, pop that sucker in, and walk away. Am I missing something here?


----------



## camps764

apparently the thicker bottom on the raised panel bottom allows the drawer to carry a heavier load. I guess that makes sense.


----------



## Pezking7p

Speaking from a purely mechanical/engineering standpoint, the haunched tenon provides very little extra glue surface, and a small amount of twist resistance. I think it's a poor trade off for the extra joint complexity, especially if the joint will be seen.

Raised panels are stronger only relative to the size of the dado they are slotted in. In other words, a 1/4" panel can be slotted in a 1/8" dado, and still be as strong as a full 1/4" panel. I guess this means you can add an extra 1/8" to the inside depth of your drawer? I have a feeling this is one of those fine details that 99.999% of the population will never notice or appreciate. But then again, details are important to us, or we wouldn't be making furniture.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Haunches tenons keep the wood on the mortise side from splitting by giving the mortise more area at the end of the joint while still giving the added stability to keep the tenoned piece from twist or warp.

Raised panel bottoms are good for solid wood construction to allow for wood movement. They are not necessary if you use plywood bottoms.


----------



## pintodeluxe

Haunched tenons have several benefits. As Paul mentioned, it makes the mortise stronger if it is close to the end of a leg. You will wind up with haunched tenons if you mill through grooves for door panels, then deepen the mortises for the rails. It is a strong joint, and not much tougher to cut than stub tenon and groove.

I think solid drawer bottom make weaker drawers. Plywood can be glued in place, and adds strength to the drawer assembly. Specialty veneer plywoods like aromatic cedar are widely available. I think builders who use solid wood bottoms are concerned with historical accuracy.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks for all the birthday wishes folks. Having a nice day with the family. Snuck in a a little shop time too.

Steve- Some of those things are just preference. Others are signs of quality that craftsmen like to include.

Like Willie, I hardly every use solid drawer bottoms. Plywood is just a perfect material for drawer bottoms. As far a using a raised panel, folks just do that so they can have a thicker, stronger bottom…..and save drawer space. If you bevel the panel, it lowers the the drawer bottom. Make sense?

I do go back and forth as to whether I rip off the groove on the back of drawers to make the bottom removable. Generally I like the idea of being able to change the drawer bottom in the future.


----------



## WhoMe

Happy Birfday Red. Sorry to hear there was no LN goodness but a little shop time and a day off is surely a good thing too.


----------



## byerbyer

Happy Birthday Red. Hope you enjoyed the QT with family and in the shop


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks for the birthday wishes folk. Got called into work last night, so that kinda stunk. Oh well.

The kiddos got me a retractable air compressor hose and some protective ear muffs that you can plug your mp3/smartphone into. Good fun.


----------



## chrisstef

Make sure you turn them ear muffs off when youre done with em Rojo. Ive got a pair and the batteries are always dead because im an idiot.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Actually Stef. this brand of ear muff doesn't require batteries. Work just like regular headphones. Tried them today, they sound pretty good. Looking forward to having them on milling days. Running stock over the jointer and planer for a couple hours can be very boring.

Well, here the are- my first set of hand-cut dovetailed drawers. They aren't perfect, but they aren't too shabby. As I was admiring them in my shop I couldn't help but consider the impact the interwebz and interaction with other woodworkers has had on my work. A couple years ago I thought stuff like this was just for pros….or retired guys with lots of time.









I never would have pushed myself to do some of these thing without being challenged and encouraged by other woodworkers. So…thanks;-)

And if you want, share how interaction with other woodworkers on the net has impacted your woodworking/furniture making.


----------



## DaddyZ

Happy B-Day Late…

Yea all you guys on here are *Addictive for Information*

Very Nice looking Red !!!


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## Hammerthumb

Very nice Red. I like it!


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## CL810

Rojo those DT's look mighty nice!


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## camps764

Definitely mighty nice…very impressive dude.


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## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys. Shame they're just getting installed in a joinery bench ehh;-)

Nah, it was good practice. I'm confident to execute them on furniture now.


----------



## theoldfart

Nice DT's Red. Sure there not upside down or inside out? ;0) hehe


----------



## Hammerthumb

You caught that too OF. I don't think I have the talent for inside out DTs.


----------



## lateralus819

Very nice Red. How long have you been doing em by hand? I keep telling myself I'll do em by hand (which i will) I hate my leigh dovetail jig, too much stuff to worry about being right.

I think the internet is a phenominal tool. I relied on it solely to learn guitar, video after video. Gave me a way to see how thing's are done, without having to pay someone. It also let me form myself.

I rely on it for WW too. my wife often pokes fun at how much i forum and read, but there is such a wealth of knowledge on here it's amazing. I usually read a few hours a night on various things to do with wwing. In my mind i feel like a pro with as much as I've read, but putting it to paper is another story lol.


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## BigRedKnothead

lat- I hear ya. Before interwebz woodworking, I read a lot of woodworking books and mags. I felt like my head knowledge was ahead of my hand knowledge for quite a while. Sometimes I wish I would've gotten on LJs sooner. It might have saved me some time and headache. But then again, I like that I developed much of my style and techniques on my own first.

I think I've been messing with DTs for 3 or 4 months now. I get pretty focused on something once I start. Not sure if you saw my earlier posts about the dovetail guide. I use it quite a bit. Huge timesaver. I mostly just use it to get the saw started.


----------



## lateralus819

Is it like David Barrons? Cause i've thought of trying one.


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## BigRedKnothead

Yup. I made some like his. Pretty easy. 








-









-
Here's pretty much how you do it. 
http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/page.asp?p=1458

My chisel work is pretty good. My saw work is lacking. Some call this approach a "crutch." I don't care. It's helped me a lot. The added bonus is speed. The guide eliminates a lot of marking.

Also like Barron, I picked up a knew concepts fret saw. I can saw very close to my baseline in one pass. Makes for quick chiseling.


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## JayT

Is it like David Barrons? Cause i've thought of trying one.

Do it, lat. Whether you make one like Red or just be lazy and purchase one like I did, you won't regret it.


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## lateralus819

I secretly admire David Barron. I don't know what it is, but i wish he had a T.V. show. He explain's thing's very thoroughly.


----------



## Airframer

He really does… his stuff is like what a woodworking show hosted by Mr Rogers would be like me thinks lol.


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## lateralus819

You're so right Eric! Hahaha. He has that warm and inviting demeanor. It's kind of like listening to a chef talk about food lol.


----------



## JayT

No secret here, besides purchasing the guide and marking knife from David Barron, I also patterned marking gauges after his for the swap last year-it was just a nice size and design. I emailed him asking permission to use his design and he not only graciously agreed, but also put me in touch with a magazine editor to get a copy of an article he had written several years earlier about how he makes them. Then, once the swap was over, I sent him a link to the project post in a thank you not and he linked the post on his blog. Being gracious, friendly and producing quality products (tools, woodwork and blog) makes it easy to be a fan.

Maybe it's something about being British. David Barron and Paul Sellers are excellent craftsmen and instructors and personable, to boot. I also like Richard Maguire's blog, The English Woodworker


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## BigRedKnothead

Darn gracious Brits. And all we've got is carnival barker Rob Cosman


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## lateralus819

Oddly enough, i was just watching a vid of him going over the woodriver #4 1/2. I do not like him. Come's off extremely arrogant. I'd rather spend my money at Lie nielsen anyways.


----------



## Pezking7p

I love Paul sellers. Wish I could attend one of his courses.

Of course I say that, but I keep not signing up for classes at the woodwright school, which is 45 minutes away


----------



## lysdexic

Dan - I've done three classes with Roy. The "Planes for Joinery" was my favorite. If you think about signing up for a different class let me know. I might tag along with you.


----------



## lysdexic

I can NOT get past Tommy Mac's Boston accent.


----------



## Pezking7p

Try living in Boston. I didn't even here tommy throw out a single "wicked pissah".


----------



## Pezking7p

Never seen his show but it looks like the new norm? Is it any good?


----------



## thedude50

I agree I got into woodworking to make stuff I did not want to collect tools and its easy to get caught up in the distractions of tool collecting I really just want to make furniture here is my latest build I am finishing 2 workbenches right now I have worked on them off and on for over a year


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## jmartel

Looking good there, dude.


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## john2005

Boy ya don't check this thread for a day and it all breaks loose!

Me? Just starting to practice the dovetails, now that the bench is done. Man I shoulda built that years ago!









Yeah, they need some work. A lot of work, but it's a start.

.


----------



## lateralus819

Id love to build a bench, can't fork out over 1k yet tho for it lol.


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## jmartel

John, make yourself a magnetic Dovetail guide. Mine got immensely better (though still not perfect) when I made one.

https://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/page.asp?p=1458

Lateralus, it doesn't take $1k to build a bench. I got all the oak for my bench for $200.


----------



## Airframer

Mine came in wayyyyyy under 1K. If you really bargain hunt for the wood and keep pre-made hardware to a minimum you could pull it off for under $300… That's like what, two 4 1/2's?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice John. I did the whole "dovetail a day for 30 days" before I even tried the guide. The repetition provides a routine and helps to learn all the little nuances of the joint.

lat- I agree with the fellas. Half of the fun of building a bench is finding reasonable source for lumber around you. Doesn't need to be furniture quality stuff at all. 
You can spend a grand on hardware too, but you don't have to. I've got about $125 in hardware, and less than $500 in my whole bench. My first pine bench was less than $150.


----------



## Pezking7p

Dude, nice cabinets. I love the boards you used for the back.

Lat, you can build for much, much less. Go with cheap wood and cheap hardware.

Red, how many DT's do you think you've cut to get to where you're at? As soon as my bench is done, I'm going to start a dovetail a day.


----------



## john2005

Lat. as stated, it can be done for much cheaper. Mine came in just over 400, hardware and all. Like Eric said, just sell a couple 4 1/2s and bam, there it is!

I don't have a guide yet but I do have a guide/saddle from veritas. Helps with the layout part.

I agree with you Red, gonna start the dovedail a day thing. Hopefully mamma can hold tight on the booster seat. Turns out when you build a bench you end up with a ton of scraps that are perfect for practice!


----------



## terryR

Love your bench, John!

Wow, you guys are using DT guides to cut some friggin awesome Dt's! I guess I better decide whether to build or buy a set…I really like Barron's. Hey, he even has a straight guide for 90 degree cuts…hate to admit it, but my skills could use that one, too!


----------



## lateralus819

Well….good! What are you fellas using for vises? I'd like an end vise and a roubo style. I wanted to go with maple for the bench..but I'm definitely not going to buy it from my supplier, until maybe their halloween sale.


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## jmartel

I built some for the cost of some scrap and $10 for magnets. I may end up buying one of David Barron's though in the future.

Lateralus, do you have a planer? You can find rough lumber on craigslist real cheap. I found someone selling 6' long pieces of red oak for $1.50/bdft for my bench. I didn't want any longer than 6' anyway.

For the hardware, I made a leg vise and a wagon vise. 2 $40 tail vise screws from Lee Valley and some wood are all you need.


----------



## lateralus819

I have a co-worker who sells cherry for $2 a BDFT for clear cherry. Problem is i don't have a planer.. or a jointer.

Might be worth getting a planer, and making a sled.


----------



## jmartel

Definitely. You will save money. I bought a Dewalt 735 new, but if you don't want to spend that money, Ryobi is the other end of the range at $150-200 I believe.


----------



## lateralus819

Well…his is air dried. Would it be worth it to invest in one to build a bench out of said cherry? Then I'd have it at least…he has TONS of it. He runs a mill.


----------



## JayT

Skip the clear lumber and build your bench out of #1 or #2 and you should be able to save even more.

$2 bd/ft for cherry?!? Dang.

Planer is worth the investment (I finally broke down and bought one). Jointing can easily be done with hand planes. I just do not see where a jointer is worth the money or space.


----------



## Pezking7p

I bought a used delta planer for $75.

Honestly I think yellow pine is pretty handsome if you can find it. Used vises or buy cheap ones from lowes and upgrade later. Or make your own vises from vise screws.

Why is it that we will make jigs for everything, but somehow a dovetail guide seems to eat at our manhood?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dan- ya, the dovetail guide as a "crutch" or "training wheels" is a big topic. The Wood Whisperer and his cronies recently blasted them on their podcast. I still don't care. If I would have kept doing dovetails old school, I would have quit. I despised how long it took to mark everything. And my saw skills just weren't there yet. The guide made them fun and more efficient. If people toss me into the category of "hacks" like David Barron….I'm okay with that.

Lat- I see benchtop planers on craiglist all the time for around $100. My buddy has a delta for sale for $80 right now, but it'd be a bear to ship. If you can get cherry that cheap…go with it. I paid around $2 bd ft for my oak and walnut. Another option is to pay a cabinet/millwork shop to joint and plane them. No shame in it. And it's usually not too pricey.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dan- oh ya, the drawer I just made had 20 dovetails, so that puts me around 60 or so. My early attempts were ok, but I steadily got better. Everyone is different though. I was already a decent joiner before I started dovetails.

Early one. Lil snug.


----------



## lateralus819

Careful with that chisel Red. Ask me how i know LOL.


----------



## theoldfart

Doesn't look like a chisel split, but rather too tight a fit.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yep, dovetails cannot be conquered with brute force.

Intalled the joinery bench cabinet drawers. I'm not a big fan of installing metal slides. But the full extension capability is nice. The best way I've found is to make a spacer from scrap and work upward, like this:









The spacing looks funky, but it'll make sense when I get the graduated fronts installed









-
On to the shop-made oak pulls and walnut drawer fronts. I try to use my gnarly boards on shop stuff. These are gonna need some love…and epoxy.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, sometimes the most striking grain patterns I've found have been from boars like that .


----------



## john2005

Love me some gnarly broa…..er…boards. I do love the character they give but they do make it more challenging to work with.

Cherry @ 2/bf?! Fer real?


----------



## ToddJB

Red - looking good.

Went to the recommended hardwood store here in Denver - $8bdft for rough 4/4 Walnut


----------



## Pezking7p

I like the wood whisperer, but anyone who owns a domino cutter loses the right to blast anyone for using a "crutch". LOL

I actually made a hand cut dovetail, about 5 years ago (when I lived in Iowa, I actually had half a wood shop and about 500 BF of walnut! I had to sell it when I moved). I have a picture of it somewhere. I'd hate to look at it but if I ever get my old computer running I'll post the pic of it.

Todd, walnut prices are ludicrous almost everywhere. I think my local shop is about $6.30 a BF, and the lumber looks like crap. Meanwhile cherry is a reasonable $4/BF. Are you new in Denver?


----------



## lateralus819

Since this is a furniture forum, does anybody else follow Doucette and Wolfe furniture on facebook? They build in credible period reproductions. They post build videos as well once the pieces are complete.


----------



## ToddJB

Dan, not new to Denver (7 years). But I used almost all reclaimed material up til now.


----------



## jmartel

Dang that's an awesome selection of boards in that dresser.


----------



## lateralus819

Check em out on Facebook, or youtube. He's like a machine.


----------



## lysdexic

"I like the wood whisperer, but anyone who owns a domino cutter loses the right to blast anyone for using a "crutch". LOL"

No ********************. Right?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Todd, I never used walnut until I moved to Iowa. I think my lumber guy gave me those gnarly boards.

Lat- I hadn't heard of Doucette and Wolfe, but man am I glad you shared. This video is nuts. Something to aspire to anyway.


----------



## thedude50

is that yoiu red in the video If so nice skill set nice job


----------



## j1212t

Holy crap. That build in the video was ridiculous. There wasn't anything on the project that I would confidently tackle at this point, even with my super-boosted totally unrealistic view of myself. Wow.


----------



## lateralus819

Glad you liked it. I've been following them for quite a while. He's a perfectionist, you can tell. His attention to detail is second to none. I'm in awe of his skillset. He as well has a taste for lie nielsen. I was actually talking to him about the high angle frogs the other day.


----------



## lateralus819

He used to be a carpenter, building homes I belive. Then went to school in VT for this stuff. There is a bio on their website.


----------



## WhoMe

Holy moley… I can't even to that in my DREAMS.

I just sat slack jawed through the whole video…..

Thanks for posting that Red. How I can cry myself to sleep…..


----------



## jinkyjock

Just watched the Doucette & Wolfe video and am blown away, possibly the best piece of cabinetmaking I have *ever* seen. I worked in a commercial environment for a period, and usually due to constant time constraints you learned to cut corners to get the job out on time. It is now becoming clear to me that I have picked up quite a few bad habits, and attitudes, and need to re-learn skill-sets. Watching this video kinda reminds you why you are doing this stuff in the first place. Also, observing the actions and comments of you guys (& gals) on LJ is an incentive itself, 'cos you all aspire to be better. So thank you guys for the kick-up-the-backside I so badly needed.
P.S. neat dovetails Red, maybe I need to start the One-a-Day Therapy.


----------



## lateralus819

I understand Jink. I work in a cabinet/scene shop. They do some nice work sometimes. But others, you wonder WHY they cut corners when it doesn't take much longer to produce a better result. The answer is always either "it doesn't get seen" Or "you only see it for a few seconds" Meh…

Those videos inspire me to try my best! Truly amazing what we can do if we put our minds to it.


----------



## john2005

Why does Reds "video" show up as just a blank space. I can read the txt but there is nothing after that on my end. Have I ever expressed my distaste, distrust, and utter dislike for computers. Whaddya do?


----------



## lateralus819

Just go to YouTube and type in doucette and wolfe woodworking. You will not be disappointed.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I hear you guys about cutting corner and finishing the details. I'm always wrestling with how much effort I should put into parts that will never be seen. Reminded me, I've been questioned about the backs of my pieces:








Why bother with a nice frame and panel? Why finish it? Well, I don't think a quality piece should be destined to a life against a wall. Furthermore, I'll know its there. God knows it's there….so I finish it.

Anyway, looks like I'm not the only one blown away by that Doucette and Wolfe video. Some random observations of my own:

- I'm bent more towards hand tools that your average hybrid woodworker. Mathew is even more so than I. His skills are incredible.

- The downside to this wonderful detailed work is time and money. You'd have to get large sum for your piece. I'm sure they do…and deservedly so. But it leaves them to solely for wealthy clientele. That would bum me out.

- Is there a correlation between perfectionists and Lie Nielsen addicts?;-)


----------



## Airframer

I think that is the attitude of the turn of the century craftsman Red. He would know it was there and the possibility existed that someone else would find it so he would do it right and keep his reputation in good standing. Nowadays we do what we can get away with because.. well…. no on expects ANYTHING to last a lifetime anymore so we are OK with toss away products made just good enough to do the job. I don't think it's necessarily what the consumer REALLY wants but it is what we have all been trained to accept as normal now. It's unfortunate but reality.

I watched that video last night and almost put all my tools on craigslist afterwards lol. Man that is so good stuff going on there not to mention the insane amount of galoot points being earned in each step. I was surprised by the Irwin chisel set though lol… guess if they work they work!


----------



## terryR

I agree, finishing the backside of furniture has gone with the wind…or even using wood! 

But, I applaud you, Red. If I owned that piece, and moved it for cleaning, I would see the back! If it were plain, I'd think the builder was cheap or lazy or wasn't proud enough of his own work to finish the back just as nice as the rest.

What ever happened to honor and pride? That's why I hang with my LJ buddies so much…they still have both!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Agreed fellas. Of course there are lots of other quality issues I could improve upon.

Eric I was surpfised by the Marples chisels too. I wonder of they're the older UK ones. I've got a set of the later China made. The steel pretty sad. They dull very quickly.


----------



## ScomelBasses

Big fan of Doucette and Wolfe here. I've been following them on youtube for a long time, Awesome stuff!

Red, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using that guide for dovetail work. It's still handwork that takes a large bit of skill. Personally, I'm firmly in the power tool camp. I won't hand cut anything if I don't have to. I do enjoy using chisels though. At this point, I doubt I'd even consider myself a hybrid woodworker though as the years go by I find myself a little more interested in adding hand tools to the arsenal. Still, I think I'd much rather do dovetails on a Leigh jig than hand cut them.


----------



## lateralus819

Speaking of not cutting corners. The plan I vaguely followed for my hall table called for a long Dado in the back and front for 5 supports for the top and drawers. I thought it seemed kind of amateurish so I did individual mortise for each support. It took while longer but in my mind I knew it looked better even though it was concealed. I even went through 3 tops and 2 face frames because I wasn't happy with it. Ah the joys of perfection. My wife gave me ******************** about it. She said she couldn't tell. But I could that's the point.


----------



## Pezking7p

Goodness. That video is inspirational. I had watched another video of theirs, but it wasn't like that one at all. Now I'm all amped up to make some furniture! Booyah!


----------



## jmartel

The Marples I have are pretty darn old. Have yellow stained wood handles instead of the blue plastic ones now.


----------



## Pezking7p

When you think about it, a chisel is just a sharpened piece of tool steel. There's no secret to hardening tool steel or copying a shape of a well-balanced chisel. Most of the extra cost of a chisel is in finishing (read: flattening) and a fancy-pants handle.


----------



## WhoMe

C'mon Red, there was one LV plane in that mix. )
I noticed the Irwin chooses too. Maybe he doesn't like the feel of other chisel handles or the balance of them. I guess you go with what you are comfortable with.
But that shooting plane. I gotta go look at the B+G site to see if Stanley made one of those. I think I remember seeing one of those somewhere. Getting to figure out the advantage of that over the 51/52 setup.

The one thing I really noticed about all the tools in that video, THEY WERE SHARP!!!!!
Would love to see their sharpening methods to learn something.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That, and all the freehand chisel work. That dude's got freaky skills.

Just milled up the walnut for my drawer fronts. I should have gotten the hear muffs that hook up to my smartphone year ago. I can listen to music…and still hear if the railroad calls. I left them on after the machines were off;-)

Scomel- I hear ya. There are some instances when hand tools are more efficient than power. Other times, I just use them because I enjoy them.


----------



## Airframer

So I have been lurking on this particular forum for a bit and have finally decided to try making something that isn't a piece of shop furniture for once. What is a good introductory piece for the house? I know we need a coffee table and my wife seriously needs a cedar chest of some sort just not sure where the skill ramp on furniture starts.

Any thoughts?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Tables are a good place to start. If you want to increase the difficulty, add some drawers.


----------



## jmartel

Whole new kitchen cabinet set.

Failing that, a bedroom suite of furniture.

After that, a giant office desk.


----------



## Airframer

Hmmm.. will have to take your suggestions under consideration Jmart lol.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Eric, you've already got some good experience as a joiner with your shop stuff. The difficulty is in the details. Depending on the design, either of those would be a fine start imo. 
My early on my furniture projects were really just determined by what we needed…and what I was able to get reasonable lumber for.


----------



## Pezking7p

I would think a coffee table would be very reasonable. Got any ideas for style?


----------



## lysdexic

Rojo,

I can't see the video you guys are referencing. I have watched several but what is the exact D&W video you guys are watching?


----------



## lateralus819

The block front chest of drawers.


----------



## DaddyZ

Simple Coffee Table


----------



## JADobson

What a transformation Pat. That looks great. Are all the dowels showing through the top old arrows?


----------



## DaddyZ

No, Only had 1 Arrow not enough to do the top also

Arrow was used to hold the aprons to the Legs, the Top Dots are 1/2" Dowels


----------



## Pezking7p

Very cool use of reclaimed materials Pat. I like the pattern combined with the simple design of the table.

I'm addicted to doucette and wolfe videos. Guy cuts dovetails like he was born with a saw in his hand.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Daddyz- the "inlay" design is very cool on that table. Where did you come up with that?

I had one of those satisfying moments when you know you've come a long ways on a skill. A year or two ago a nasty panel like this would have given me fits. Despite the knots and epoxy filled cracks (supposed to look rustic).... I planed it flat and smooth effectively. Biggest difference be my sharpening skillz me thinks.








Should note I used a no 80 scraper on the epoxy first.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Gonna look nice Red.


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## ToddJB

That's the world's biggest drawer front there, Rojo… or the worlds smallest bench to make the worker of wood look so large.


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## Hammerthumb

Red is up to his old photog tricks again!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I will not share the dimensions…..but I will say it's for this big arse drawer;-)










The mini screwdrivers were tough to pull off I might add.


----------



## Hammerthumb

fits all of his routers and a family of 4?


----------



## DaddyZ

Red

This stuff just rattles around in my head, check out some more of my inlays on tables in my projects


----------



## GMatheson

Greetings from Portugal. Been hiding out here for the last couple weeks and thought I would share a bit of what I found today.


----------



## DanKrager

Holy COW, G. Looks like you've found your tool chest prototype! 
How old is that thing?
DanK


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## GMatheson

Can't remember exactly Dan but most of what I seen was 17th to 18th century I think. Would probably take me three lifetimes to build something with that much detail.

Here's a close up of the pattern on the second pic


----------



## Airframer

I have decided on a cedar chest for the wife as my first "real" furniture project. Seems simple enough as it is basically a large box with a lid right? (famous last words).

The one thing I am confused about is.. if the carcass is made from a material other than cedar.. how do you line the chest with cedar without wood movement tearing it apart?

I was searching google trying to figure this out and I came across this guy (not the design I am shooting for just fyi) and it looks like it is lined basically with a cedar box within a mahogany box? Am I seeing this right or is there more to the story?

http://chestercountyantiques.net/queen_anne_mahogany_blan.html


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## Pezking7p

I can see two ways, orient the cedar grain the same direction as the carcass grain, or use tongue and groove cedar slats and leave them some room to expand. I know the floors of chests are done this way.

Shouldn't be more than a 32nd or so of expansion on a project that size, so you wouldn't need huge gaps.


----------



## lateralus819

Eric you could make it out of cedar and then veneer it if cedar isn't the look you're going for.


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## DanKrager

Here's a thought or two AF.

To be effective, the entire chest does not need to be lined with cedar. The link above shows a traditional plan where cedar planks cover only the bottom. The aroma of the cedar in a closed container acts as a bug repellant, and knowing that, some old timers just put bags of cedar chips (shavings) inside the (cheap) container.

I would be very careful about "laminating" cedar to a show wood…the differences in movement would warp or tear things apart I believe. The chest you show may have a carefully fitted "loose" box of cedar. It's interesting that the lock seems to be in the cedar liner…
DanK


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## Airframer

Thanks Dan! That makes a lot of sense. So, in essence I could upholster the inside of the lid with a mix of stuffing and cedar shavings and be covered?


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## camps764

In the chest I did, I made the bottom out of cedar. This has been more than enough IMHO. It gives the great cedar smell, and allows the rest to move as it wishes. The chest is one of my posted projects.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Eric, on each of the chest's I've made, I milled up some tongue and groove aromatic cedar for the bottom. Works nicely. Don't seem to have any pics of this though.

I've only made frame and panel chests….like this one I made this past winter. Now that I'm confident with dovetails, I'm looking forward to trying a solid dovetailed chest.










Looking forward to your build.


----------



## ShaneA

Would a friction not be an solution? That is how it is/can be be handled on humidors w/Spanish Cedar. Seems like a simple and effective option.


----------



## jmartel

Just cut some cedar planks and place them in the bottom after finishing. Leave a bit of space like 1/16" all around and call it good.


----------



## DanKrager

Oh, and don't throw your cedar shavings and sawdust in the compost…in large quantities it kills (repels) beneficial bugs and worms. Red cedar mulch does the same, but around established plants doesn't do much harm. Do save them and put them in INTACT panty hose leggin's and hang them in your closet for a fresh smell there too! 
DanK


----------



## byerbyer

I've been absent from here for awhile, but I wrapped up the crib project over the weekend. Hoping to post it as a project once I get some non-phone pictures snapped.










Cheers!


----------



## Airframer

Beautiful work! My kid sleeps in a store bought crib.. really wish I had the skills to build him one before he was born. Maybe next time.

May is possibly going to be a busy month for me WW wise. Our wedding anniversary is on the 1st and would like to make a jewelry box for her for that.. her birthday is the 4th and some hair forks are in order for that and mothers day is the 11th and would like to at least be part way through a chest build by then.. none of this has a snowballs chance in hell of really getting done on time with my 10 month old starting the 4-5 wake ups a night thing again (not to mention refusing anything that resembles a nap) but a guy can dream right?


----------



## JADobson

Haha, Eric, the deluded dreams of fatherhood. I was working on my thesis when my first son was born. I thought, no problem, he can sit on my lap while I read and research. It turned out better for the snowballs in hell. Good luck though. And don't worry, they go back to napping well in a few weeks.


----------



## theoldfart

Eric, kid thing will pass in time (maybe!) Our 44'th is on May2'nd. Hang in there!


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## Airframer

44th anniversary or kid? You must be busy! Or Catholic….


----------



## JADobson

Or both.


----------



## BentheViking

lol AF


----------



## theoldfart

Anniversery, just two kids, and still recovering from a Catholic upbringing and catholic schools.


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## Pezking7p

Crib looks awesome. What goes in the bottom? (No kids)

The chests are really making me want to finish my bench so I can get back to furniture. I've been thinking about a lot of designs for chests, as well as a TV stand.


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## Hammerthumb

Nice crib Byer. Daughter let us know a couple of weeks ago that she is pregnant so I need to start thinking about a crib also. I will be a first time grandpa, but she is 30 so I figure it's about time!


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## camps764

Crib looks great!

Here's what's on my bench right now…










Waterfall style live edge table for one of my good friends. Everything is just dry fit at this point, with all the joinery finally cut. There is still a long way to go on this, but the end is in sight finally. Need to trim up and shape the long stretcher on the bottom. Everything needs a final trim up and sanding.


----------



## camps764

Another shot that shows it a little better.


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## Pezking7p

What woods are those Steve? I would love to do a slab table some day .


----------



## camps764

The slab is Ash and the stretcher/leg are walnut. It's got a few other details that tie the walnut in as well. The stretcher runs through the otherside of the waterfall leg, and the screws that hold the waterfall leg on are pinned with shop made walnut dowels.

It's a pretty cool project, and an opportunity to build something that I wouldn't necessarily build otherwise. By that, I mean it wouldn't really fit in my home, so I probably wouldn't get the opportunity to build it if my buddy didn't want it. He paid for the materials, and I just put in the labor


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## BigRedKnothead

byer- Crib looks sweet. I've used jute webbing, but never would have thought to use it on a crib. Well done. 
Like the others, I wasn't able to make a crib for my kiddos….but they've got some sweet bunk and loft beds now;-)

Paul- congrats on the upcoming grandbaby Paul. I thought you were gonna have to adopt mine for a while there…lol.

Atta boy Steve-O. Cranking out the furniture now. I needs to try some live edge. I've seen a guy advertising on CL in Omaha. I call Lumber Run!

Well, I've worked some silly hours on the railroad the past few months. Very little shop time. BUT, tomorrow I start 3 weeks of Stay-cation. I'm stoked. When you work on call 24/7 as I do, you really relish your time off. 
Anyway, I've got a bunch of stuff planned, but I'm gonna have plenty of shop time too. Hoping to bust out some half-blind dovetails (first attempts) and finish my joinery bench. Time to bust out some good bourbon.


----------



## camps764

Always down for a lumber run. 3 week staycation sounds awesome. I just started a week and a half vacation today. Baby #2 is scheduled to show up at 7 am tomorrow morning. Primary duties for the next week are baby watchin and helpin Mama out but I'm sure I'll find some opportunities to squeeze some shop time in as well.


----------



## Pezking7p

Ash! I've seen a few elm slab tables and I would die to be able to make an elm table.

I am 100% jealous of a 3 week staycation. It's hard to unwind with only a few days off. You need time to catch up on house things, then do all the things you want to do until you get bored of them, THEN you can finally relax. Takes about a week or two IMO.

I have a design question. If you were building the piece below, would you make the frame/panel assembly, and then slide the carcass into the frame?? If so, how would you attach the carcass to the frame? I've been struggling with how to put a carcass into a frame with real legs on it, and I finally found a picture that depicts the technique somewhat.

http://berkeleymills.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Photo_75_251_4.png


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## BigRedKnothead

Pez- ya a few years back I tried taking all 3 weeks together, now I won't do it any other way.

I'm very familiar with that sort of build. I've made several sideboard and tv stands in a similar design. It's your basic frame and post assembly. First you make the frames. 








-Then glue the legs to the side assemblies. Then you add the front and back:








Once you have this solid case. You can then add any dividers, shelves, or assemblies you like.


----------



## Pezking7p

Thanks, Red. I think I was overthinking the construction. How would/did you attach these parts to the frame?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

attach these parts to the frame?

Well, there are lots of ways to go about this. I'm sure your aware the "fine woodworking" way would be to mortise and tenon everything in. You'd have to to take that into account when your gluing up. I plan on trying in that in the future. But imo, the inner dividers and such are not "structural" on post and frame assemblies. So I've glued and screwed cleats to hold the bottom, as here:









Then I've used cleats, and dare I say pocket screw to hold the upper web. And dados to hold the verical dividers. Glad I found a pic to explain this:









The obvious convenience is that you can do this after the post and frame assembly is together. I realize there are more "quality" ways of doing it. But those are things I have done when I was pressed on budget or skill level. I've had no problems with those pieces as of yet.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Pez - THe inner dividers or web frames can be floated in dados. Notice in the picture that the web frames are just slid in. I then pinned them to the case at the front to allow for movement at the rear.



















The case of this chest is comprised of the f/p back, the cove and columns, and the maple sides. When these are assembled with the top and bottom, the case becomes very sturdy.

In the chest below, I made the web frames part of the case construction as there is no legs, top or bottom rails. Notice also that the web frames are made of plywood for stability. After assembly, I applied wood strips to the plywood dividers and dovetailed them together to give the illusion of solid wood.




























Sorry about the picture quality, but I just upgraded the lighting in my shop to help with pics, and with working.

Point is, there are a lot of ways to divide a cabinet, Just make sure you take into account wood movement and cabinet stability.


----------



## Pezking7p

Wow, I clearly have a lot to learn about furniture construction. I have a nice book, maybe I should read it? Thanks a lot guys. I'm now officially horned up to make some furniture.


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## pintodeluxe

Dan,
Here is a step by step blog on sideboard type builds if you are interested.
http://lumberjocks.com/pintodeluxe/blog/34981 
It mostly uses dados and biscuits.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Pay attention to Pinto's blogs! Some of the best!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, why didn't I think of that, check out Willies blogs. They're probably more technical than what I was explaining….but also higher quality.

And yes….there is a lot to learn about furniture building. Hence the forum;-)


----------



## WhoMe

Just picked up some bubinga for a small project. Was thinking on using Lacewood, Peruvian walnut or Wenge but settled on this. Wood looked cool but have not worked with it before. Anyone out there work with it. Besides being a hard wood, what kind of characteristics does it have. What finishes work well on it. I like to use shellac, blo and water based polys (southern california limitation). How does a oil based poly look? Just curious on hints, tips, information before I start to cut into it….

Thanks.


----------



## byerbyer

Thanks for the kind words all.

Congrats on being a grandpa Paul!

These sideboard posts couldn't be more timely for me… The gf needs a sideboard the kitchen/dining area.


----------



## Hammerthumb

WhoMe - Bubinga works well with both power and hand tools for a very dense wood. Sands without clogging the paper. It will finish well with all of the finishes you mentioned. It will require some grain filling if you want a super smooth finish. Water based poly will not bring out the colors by itself and I recommend an oil based sealer (blo would be fine) prior to wb poly.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Made another little furniture making blog about false drawer fronts. It's a well known trick, but I thought it might helps some folks. 
http://lumberjocks.com/BigRedKnothead/blog/40789

Getting all kinds of stuff done on my vacation so far. Inside the shop and out. I'll post some progress tomorrow.


----------



## WhoMe

Paul, thanks for the Bubinga info. will have to experiment with the different finishes on some of the scraps. It is already a colorful piece of wood with lots of figure so I will be anxious to see what happens with different finishes. Thanks again.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Mike - if you saw the prior posts of the jewelry keepsake chest I made further back in this thread, the drawer fronts are made of Bubinga. I finished them with colored Danish oil and dark paste wax. Also hand cut the half blind DTs. The wood is very workable with hand tools for being so dense. Better than Jatoba or some of the other dense tropicals. I think that is the first time I have used Bubinga in a major portion of a project, and really liked using it. Best thing is I am not allergic to it, as I have found that I am becoming allergic to some woods that I have never had problems with before.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Finished the walnut drawer fronts and shop made oak pulls this morning. Joinery bench is coming along nicely. Just the small hand tool drawers to to. They'll be my first shot at half blind dovetails. Probably won't to those til after Easter. 









-


----------



## ToddJB

Cuss. Those look so good. Great job. They filled up yet?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks man. Only the big slide out has contents as of yet. I'd like to finish the other drawers first and come up with an organizational plan. We'll see how long my beaver tendencies stay at bay.


----------



## theoldfart

Outstanding Red, you need to vacation here in the Northeast. Then you could stay at my house. Why then you could even build something like that in my house! Jus' sayin'.


----------



## CL810

Looks real nice Red. HB DT's will be fun.


----------



## byerbyer

Looking sharp Red. Will you be using the cutting guide for the HB DT's? I've been musing on how that might work.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jason- I'm gonna try to use the DT guide. The tails would be the same, and it should still work with the saw angled on the pins. We'll see.

I may even try a couple different ways to hog out some of the waste besides the ol' chop n' chisel. You guys do it by hand? Or do you hog some of it out with a drill or router?


----------



## Pezking7p

Drawers look freaking killer red.


----------



## b2rtch

Red, your work is gorgeous.
This forum about furniture making has to be the best on the Internet


----------



## Hammerthumb

I always chop and chisel. Theraputic for me. Never tried with the router. I will be interested in how the guide works with HB. Will await your conclusion. Been thinking about making a guide myself. By the way, great job on the joinery bench storage!


----------



## theoldfart

Red, I'd use a drill. Think the Schwarz uses a drill, thought i saw a blog post of his to that effect.


----------



## CL810

*Red*, it comes down to how many I have to do. I've tried the router but I don't have a small one and it was to hard to control. Forstner bit in the drill press is easy. Follow that with paring chisel to your line. If I just have a few I'd probably just do it by hand.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I think I'll try a forstner bit on the drill press first. Shop stuff sure is a good way to practice your skills.

Bert- glad you're enjoying the forum. I'm learning a lot too.

Here's a cool bunkbed a fellow woodworker made. I like the idea of the under dressers. Apologies for the moving pic.


----------



## pintodeluxe

Red,
Why do you even need furniture for your house when your workbench looks so good? That is a kitchen island man! Seriously, stop it. I was going to post my melamine chop saw stand, but why now? Why I ask you.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Post away Willie. I'm not a shop snob;-)

I get a little grief about my shop "furniture" from time to time. You can tell I'm a hobbyist. A "pro" probably wouldn't invest the time that could be used for commissions. Since you ask, a couple reasons I make it nice:

- The man cave thing. It's my little 400sq ft of the world I can have just the way I want it. 
- It is great practice. I wouldn't want to try half blinds for the fist time on a select piece for a drawer front. It's tough to practice fine furniture on plywood. 
- With where I live and the lumber sources I've befriended, it's very reasonable for me to use oak and walnut for shop stuff. Most of this wood I've paid $1.50 or less a bd ft.

All that and….I just enjoy making it.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

looks like a furniture quality work bench from here ;-)


----------



## pintodeluxe

Red,
I was totally kidding, I enjoy admiring your shop pieces. Great stuff.


----------



## jinkyjock

Keep at it Red, I have seen a difference in your work in the short time I have been a Lumberjock.
You have a good eye for proportion and a good work ethic.
Repetition is definitely the way to progress, more power to you.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Willie- oh I could tell you were mostly goofin. But I'm sure there are a few who were wondering….so I rambled about ti.

I appreciate the encouragement guys. As I've improved, I will admit some of the stuff in my shop is better than the early furniture in my house….lol.


----------



## smokie

My latest project is a set of 8 dining chairs. Plans from FWW (Kevin Rodel). So far so good, but it's quite a learning experience. I've posted the rest of the stuff in a blog. I made a prototype just before Christmas and didn't get back to it till March, so I built another one. But it's going well now.









.


----------



## camps764

chairs are lookin strong man. Set of chairs is on my bucket list. Just have to find a style I like and clear some time in the schedule.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Mark. I love that design. I borrowed some of the dimensions for my own set:









As you can see, I changed a lot of the details. 3 years later I'm still impressed with how solid those chairs are.


----------



## smokie

Red I'm coming up to upholstery soon. If ya don't mind me asking…How thick is your foam? Would you change it, thinner or thicker?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mark. the first time I used one inch foam. We didn't like it. After a year I took the 1" out and have been using it's as shipping packing for tools I've sold ever since( hehehe …Todd). The 2 inch is much kinder to the boney bum. Even with the jute webbing.


----------



## john2005

Those ol drawer fronts are lookin pretty sweet there Red!


----------



## WhoMe

Paul, went back and looked at your keepsake chest. Really nice and liked all the wood choices. Thanks on the hints on the bubinga and noting it in your post. Ill keep this in mind when doing my project.


----------



## Brit

I thought you guys would appreciate this video. Great how-to on making sash windows using traditional hand tools. I'll probably never make a sash window, but I loved watching it nonetheless.


----------



## Pezking7p

Very cool video Andy. The pine works so easy, must be wonderful to work with all day.


----------



## smokie

Excellent video Andy. Talk about your skill set. Damn.


----------



## ToddJB

Those old seat cushions smell awesome.


----------



## camps764

how many years of farts are trapped in those things?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

hehehe. Like I say, that foam lived in our dining chairs for about a year. We then upgraded the foam Plus the kids had already trashed the fabric. The 2nd treatment received a lot of scotchguard. But that high quality foam was too nice not to give it a 2nd life;-)

Thanks for the video *Andy*. I love watching craftman like that.

Mark- I don't think that was Andy in the vid, Here's what Andy looks like:


----------



## camps764

Just a quick update. Been squeezing in 20 minutes here and there between baby duties. Lower stretcher cut to shape, leg shaped up and trimmed to final dimension, and leg/stretcher sanded through 220. All that's left is to sand the top/waterfall leg, and sand the "live" edge.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Looking good Steve. Spring break for the kiddos is over so I'm hoping to find my shop tomorrow. Got any fun stuff your planning to buy with the proceeds from that table?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Paul- Bubinga has started to grow on me as well. I picked up a big chunk of it today. In the past I've had a foul opinion concerning bubinga due to the appearance of Veritas plane handles and knobs. Lee valley must get some ugly bubinga. Nearly all of the stuff I have sourced is much nicer looking.


----------



## jmartel

Waterfall Bubinga is absolutely gorgeous. If only it went with anything else I own/want to own then I might try and do something with it.


----------



## john2005

So I have not been able to do a dovetail a day. More like every other day. Have made some progress but still a long ways to go. Just getting pressure to get the booster seat done, so I just dove right in. Here's the first set, but I am optimistic the next set will be better. We'll see.










Having a bench rocks though! I also picked up the Olson coping saw to replace my no name/big box one. Huge difference right there. Sadly they are the same price. Not even close to the same league though.


----------



## Brit

Red said: "I don't think that was Andy in the vid, Here's what Andy looks like"

That was before the operation Red. )


----------



## Lil2J

Hello to all!

First post on this forum and I will already dare to post pictures of my first decent project. Compared to the things I am seeing here, the table and bench I made are nothing impressive, but since woodworking is only a hobby for me, I will share my results to you!

Constructive feedback is welcome! But don't be too mean, I'm the new boy around!


----------



## camps764

Welcome! Nothing to be ashamed of there, especially if that's one of your first real projects. I really dig the little support things between the stretcher and the top. Neat little design element. I also really like that the boards on the top of the bench are short and run side-to-side instead of long and end-to-end.


----------



## dbray45

John - you are doing great on your dovetails. Every set you do, you will learn something new.

A friend gave me a nightstand and asked if I could make a drawer for it. I told him, "sure". When I got it home and looked at it really close, it was obvious that the table may not have been as old as he thought (I figure mid to late 1800s) but it was made by hand and was better than a beginner's piece. Probably a piece made for a purpose, not a bought piece. I made the drawer with dovetails that matched the construction of the table - they look a little sloppy around the edges. If I had made perfect looking dovetails, they would have been out of place.

When you really look at handmade pieces, you would be amazed at the variances in the workmanship. Yours is getting right up there. If you are comparing to the work in Colonial Williamsburg, you have a long way to go, but then, to go to the journeyman level, their people will do a couple thousand sets of dovetails to be proficient.

As you get better, you will sit back and look at the earlier sets and think to yourself - I did that crap? In reality, that is as far as most people got with dovetails - they fit together, put a couple of nails to hold, and they were good. This place seems to have set the bar to a level that only a few achieved in years past - which is not a bad thing. We are, in our own way, not letting the craftsmanship go away.

Good job!


----------



## dbray45

Lil - Like I stated in the previous post. Everybody starts somewhere. If you get to the point where some of these folks get to, let me know, I would like to get there as well - I have a good 40 years to go to get to that point, I doubt if I am hand planing boards - but you never know.

My one issue - picture is a little dark. The furniture looks great.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice post Dbray. A friend commented on my recent dovetails saying, "they look better than most antiques." It's a balance striving for high quality….without the machine made look.

John- Looking good. My dovetail a day was more like every 2 or 3 days. I travel too much for consistency. Around no. 20 I was ready to makes something. Ready for the big show;-)

Lil2J- Welcome to LJs. Post away. We cover the spectrum on skill level and experience. That's part of the fun.


----------



## dbray45

Something to consider. I used to know a watchmaker, long since retired. He had a bench to die for. I think it had 20 drawers or so, a really nice piece of furniture. He told me that it was part of the apprenticeship, making your own workbench to actually do the work. I think he liked the idea that a kid (I was about 12 at the time) liked the desk and appreciated it. He used it for 40+ years, 6 days a week.

This is one of the reasons for my nice hanging tool cabinet - always a work in progress. It is a great way to practice different styles and techniques. If you don't like something, make it better. It is all a put of the process.

I see no reason to go out and buy a bunch of cabinets for someone that makes them. Seems stupid on several levels.


----------



## john2005

Thanks for the kind words David and Red. Makes me feel more confident in this endeavor.


----------



## Hammerthumb

John - excellent for your first set of DTs!

Red - here is a pic of the Bubinga I picked up for the chest.




























It was really red when freshly planed and with mineral sprits applied. Glad I was able to tone that down. Though I had spent $100 for something I would not use. I was really suprised that it planed so easily where the grain was quilted. Used a spokeshave to fare the radius in the drawer fronts after bandsawing. Had to go at a slight angle, but it worked really well. This board was over 7ft long and quite wide, but I did not measure it. Still have 2/3 of it left. Have to figure something else to use it on.

You all let me know how you like using it when you try it.


----------



## dbray45

Paul - I see a number of flaws in that wood, send it over to me. I think I can salvage a 1×3 out of it for you.

Seriously nice piece of lumber!


----------



## JayT

Dang, Paul, that's a beautiful piece of hardwood! I know you will do it justice.


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## Hammerthumb

Thanks goes to my lumber guy. He gives me a good discount when I don't beat him on the golf course too bad!


----------



## vikingcape

Wow paul can I borrow that bubinga for an extended period of time, you will get it back when I die. I promise. (I may have used it for something though)


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## BigRedKnothead

That is a schweet chunk of bubinga. I'm getting more and more interested in exotics. Trouble is, I still haven't found anywhere around here that has sells them. Well, there's one or two places that have a small selection, but their prices are robbery. I'm looking at you Midwest Woodworkers in Omaha.

John- keep at the dovetails. Usually it's not tough to see the areas you need to improve. Post it up if you get stuck on something though.

Other news, the lineup for the next *Handworks Event* in Amana, IA has been announced. Looks like they might be doing this every other year. I'll be marking my calendar for May 15-16 2015. Check it out. Looks like a hoot:
http://handworks.co/


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Have they had that there before Red? That barn doesn't look big enough ;-)


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## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I believe last years was the first. It was a big success. But it was a little crowded in there. I went on the Saturday afternoon.

Here's a nice blog and photos of the last one. 
http://blog.lostartpress.com/2013/06/08/handworks-photos/


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## TopamaxSurvivor

Looks like a good show. Too bad they don't bring that to the Pacific NW on the off years ;-)


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## Hammerthumb

Red - I worked for a hardwood flooring distributor for a number of years. I did most of the unfinished procurement for 5 branches and became familier with a lot of importers and suppliers, both foreign and domestic. I have experience with a lot of exotics and a lot of my woodworking has been done with these species. I am now at a point where I am going back to working with a lot of domestics. Domestics are much easier to work with. But I feel that working with difficult woods has helped to improve my skill. I know it has helped improve my patience!


----------



## Hammerthumb

By the way, I wish we had swap meets, woodworking events, etc. out here in Las Vegas. No rust hunting here (nothing rusts in the desert). We have one woodworking store here in Las Vegas, and they cater to the power tool crowd. They have a swap meet there once a year and will have maybe have a dozen people setup with stuff not worth looking at. I did get a nice LA block plane last time though. Done crying. Carry on.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I hear ya about the domestic hardwoods. We're pretty fortunate in this country to have oak, walnut, cherry, maple, etc. to pick from. I like them all. I'd like to have the option of mixing in an exotic from time to time, but I doubt I'll build any furniture with them unless I get a killer deal.

And rust huntin' isn't very good around here either. Maybe if I scoured barn and estates sales. Nah. 
But as the Handworks organizers discovered, there are a good number of woodworkers who will show up for such an event. I'm glad it went well and I'm glad they're coming back. I'm sure it helps that Benchcrafted is from…Iowa;-)


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## TopamaxSurvivor

Hammerthumb, Maybe the WW Show people don't believe we have any wood out here where nothing but sagebrush and confiers grow? ;-(


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## Hammerthumb

Yeah - that and construction lumber products. At least you do have some trees where you live Topa. Go a few miles ouside of Las Vegas and the tallest growing thing you see is a tumble weed.


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## john2005

Fourth set of project dts and the last looks worse than the first. How does that happen?










Right foreground, first set, rt rear, second, left rear third and left foreground last set. Not horrible but definitely needs some improvement.


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## BigRedKnothead

Nice work John. It can be maddening ehh? Sometimes we over-correct. Sometimes we just get sloppy. Other times you just have to pinpoint what you did right on the early attempts. Are you doing these freehand, or did you fashion a guide too?

I was thinking about Pez's furniture joinery post the other day. Well, it came to mind as I was making some mallets for the latest LJ swap. It occurred to me that while my furniture design skills are lacking, I can be an adept and creative joiner. I can't post anything about it because it's a swap item, but I doubt anyone has every made a mallet that way before. Basically a series of laminations so that I didn't have to cut the complicated stuff. The mallets came together swiftly and the joinery is air tight.

Anyway, joinery always interest me because there's more than one way to skin a cat. Make the joint with a tablesaw, router, hand tools…...strategic laminations. I learned what I know about joinery either from books, magazines, or trial and error. And I'm still learning.


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## john2005

Totally agree with the maddening statement. I am using a veritas saddle guide for layout, mark with a knife then freehand from there. I think I am missing something in the layout phase as my pins are always wide and a lot of times not the right angle. I want to try some different techniques, but I didn't want to change in the middle of the project. Once this is done I have some nightstand drawers to finish up that will be good practice.

I hear ya on the joinery. If I sit and think about what I am doing, I can be kind of creative and learn a lot, but it seems a lot of the time I get all focused and tunnel vision and can't stop what I'm doing even if it's a total train wreck (yeah that's for you). Those are the times I should just stop and look at how somebody else did it.


----------



## lateralus819

Red, check out japanese joinery. Pretty complication stuff!


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## camps764

A lot of the Japanese joinery is crazy complicated, but really really cool.

John - I think they're lookin good man. Heck of a lot better than I could do. Learning to cut dovetails by hand is on my "to do" list for this Summer.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Red - are you looking over my shoulder? I thought I was doing something different with the mallet I made. Laminations with joinery involved. It will be interesting to see what we have come up with. A little hint from me, without the assembly pics, you would not know what is special about the mallet I built.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That's funny Paul. Now I'm wondering if I took enough pics to explain how my mallets went together too!

I'll have to check out some Japanese joinery. After making furniture from all sorts of plans, then trying my own ways, I've arrived at a place where I just have fun with it. I've learned the do's and don'ts and I'm not nearly as intimidated as I used to be.


----------



## Pezking7p

Wait, are you guys telling me I didn't have to chop a 4" deep mortise by hand on my mallet?

When I go to sit down and learn dovetails, I won't be doing dovetail-a-day…I'll be doing dovetails-ALL-day. Granted the first few will probably take me at least an hour. I've got work to do first, though. I can't even saw a straight line yet, lol.


----------



## dawsonbob

"I can't even saw a straight line yet, lol."

Lines are supposed to be straight? Hmmm…maybe that's why nothing of mine fits?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Never fear Pez. If you get as fanatical about this as some of us have, you'll surprise yourself over time. A year ago I thought dovetails and such were way outta my league. Woodworking has a snowball affect though.


----------



## Hammerthumb

John - a little tip for the DTs. Cut whichever side you prefer first (pins or tails), and use that first side as a template to scribe the lines for the mating piece. Use a marking knife to scribe and darken it with a pencil. Then cut the mating side as close to the line as you can. I always have to pare a little away after cutting to make them fit. Red says that he can get them to fit right off the saw using the guide he made, but I have never used a guide.
I can say that my first attempts at DTs were terrible until I figured out that using the first cut side as a template, instead of just laying out both sides with a pencil was the trick. Also, I like others, like to cut tails first as you can gang boards and make the tail cuts for 2 or more drawer faces at one time.
Sorry if this is the way you have been doing it, but from your description it sounded like you were doing all of the layout prior to cutting.
One other tip: if you have a bandsaw, you can make a little jig that will allow you to cut the all of tails. I have several with different slopes - 1:6, 1:7, 1:8 etc. If you dont know this trick and want more info, let me know. You still have to chop out the waste, but it is a time saver and will give you perfectly aligned tails to use for marking out the pins.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I'm at work, but did find a few pics of the jig:




























I usually do this if I have a whole bunch of drawers to do.


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## BigRedKnothead

Paul, ^notice you've got a small rabbet with your dovetails too. Do you always do that. Find it helpful?

Here's Schwarz advocating this method to help others understand what I'm talking about:
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/joinery/handplanes-and-dovetails


----------



## Hammerthumb

Yeah Red. I do that sometimes. It depends on the project. But it does help with allignment of the face to the sides. Don't remember the project that particular pic is from.


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## BigRedKnothead

Right. I made one of those dovetail alignment board's like David Barron advocates:









But I might try some rabbets too. Maybe I just need to justify purchasing that Veritas skew rabbet plane

I've begun the last drawers for my joinery bench. Laying out drawer backs to select drawer fronts:








First half blind DT's comin' up. Should be done by dinner…..a week from Tuesday.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

About Drawers. Anybody ever intentionally make the back of the drawer slightly smaller than the front?

I've seen Schwarz plane his drawer boxes to a slight taper on the sides so the action will be nicer. Just thinking this could be another way of doing that. Making the drawer back say 1/16" smaller, over a 20" long drawer, would only be a faction of a degree on the joints. So I don't see a problem there.


----------



## ToddJB

I don't think it's the same. By making the drawer smaller in the back you get that "play" through out the whole pull. But by making the slide smaller in the back you're reaping the benefit less as you pull further, right?


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## BigRedKnothead

Hmmm…that does make sense Todd. This is the kind of stuff I kick around when I'm building.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I have to agree with Todd. The last 2 chest that I made, I cut the drawer faces so they barely fit into the drawer opening. I cut the drawer backs so when finished, were the same size as the faces. After assembly I planed the sides for a nice fit with no binding, or racking in the drawer compartment. I did build them so no runners or guides were required except for the largest drawer on the jewelry cabinet. After I get them to fit real nice, I then work on the drawer face to get an even reveal all the way around. When using drawer guides, I will make the drawer a little loser, but make the guides fit to a closer tolerence. As I do not get the humidity swings that are normal for most areas, I usually can get away with this technique. Your milage may vary. Hope this makes sense.


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## BigRedKnothead

Makes sense Paul. There's certainly a few things to take into account with solid case and drawers.

First couple of half-blinds out of the way today. They went….ok. I'm a lot slower at them so far. I used the DT guide for the tails and freehand on the pins. My saw work was good. Chisel work…not so much. Tomorrow's another day. But I'm coming to the end of my vacation time. Ho-hum.


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## Hammerthumb

HBs always go slower. Remember that the inside of the socket does not have to look pretty, just the outside.


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## john2005

Thanks Paul. Yes I have been doing all the layout, then cutting. I will give the other method a shot. 
What's the best method for keeping the bottom (valley, space between tails, whatever) flat. I have tried the coping saw. Big no no. Tried chiseling but seemed like a lot of work for not much gain. Ended up using the BS to clear it out. Good as it keeps the cut square, but any deviation sticks out like a sore thumb.

Thanks for the tips boys!


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## Iguana

The valley between the tails doesn't have to be flat. It should be dead on your marks on both sides of the board, but it is OK if it is undercut. It isn't seen and doesn't add an important glue surface to the joint.


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## widdle

Hey Redmon ..This technique helped me a bit creeping up on the baseline @ the endgrain…would get within like 3 cards and then pull them as needed..


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## Hammerthumb

Hey John, what Mark says is true. I usually cope close and then chisel, but what as I was telling Red about the HBs is true for full DTs. What is inside the joint is only important for strength and glue surface, not for looks.

Widdle - that is a cool trick. Have to try that sometime.


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## BigRedKnothead

Widster, the methodical madman. I'm gonna have to figure out something with these half-blinds. Might give it a try.

John- I think most folks do use a coping saw or fret saw for the waste between tails. With the coping saw you have to do the two cut approach, like this:








-
That's the main reason I like the knew concepts saw(or maybe fret saws in general), I can turn 90 degrees and cut very close to the line in one pass. Then just do one pare to the line:








-
It takes some practice to saw close to the line. I do it with the outside facing me so any errors will be on the inside.

Ok, back to choppin blinds.


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## jinkyjock

Hi Red,
I have ordered a new Veritas Dovetail saw and was also looking at the concept saw in your pics.
Do you feel you get a cleaner/better/more accurate cut with this type of tool.
Any input would be welcome before I splash the cash.


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## BigRedKnothead

Jinky- I've been meaning to do a review on the Knew Concepts fret saw. If your gonna do dovetails in this manner, I definitely feel like the KC saw is worth the cash. It's well made and it definitely out performs coping saws for cleaning out DTs. Primarily due to the very thin high tension blades found in fret saws.

There are other options for fret saws like this Olsen.

I can't speak to those, I have not used one. My only issue with the KC was aesthetics, which I took care of in this blog:
http://lumberjocks.com/BigRedKnothead/blog/40945
And depending on what your using it for, KC offers a basic saw on their site for $49.

Half blinds went a little better today. It cracks me up how there are so many different methods to go about dovetails. Everybody has their preference. I tried a couple methods for through dovetails until I found one I liked. Then it was just a matter of honing it in. So for my favorite method of removing waste from half-blinds is like this:









-
Drill some out with a forstner in the drill press, then orient the baseline in my moxon. I realize the risk with this method is blowing out the backside, but I haven't had an issue yet. I chop lightly while registering on the moxon, then pare down on the end grain. Working so far. Here's the last:









It'll need a little shimmy, but I feel like I'm on the right track. Btw, I pitty the fool who has to clean out half-blinds without a fishtail chisel. If I didn't have one I'd be grinding one of of some beater chisel;-)


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## jinkyjock

Cheers, and thank you for that.
I shall certainly give it much thought.


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## Brit

Red - Some nice pictorials coming out of your shop lately. Thanks for taking the time to do it. We appreciate it.


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## Buckethead

I second that.^^^

It's a bit of a pain to stop and take shots as you work. Your work is looking really strong, and serves as motivation as well as instruction.


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## Hammerthumb

Red, I don't have or use a fishtail chisel. Although if I tried one I might like it. I always get the tails to fit into the socket, and then do the cleanup of the corners with a small chisel. As you said, more than several ways to do them.


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## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys. The first two pics with the KC saw are from the interwebz, I probably should note when I do that out of convenience. The others are obviously mine.

I rarely took pictures of anything before LJs. I've got a smartphone in my pocket at all times so it's not a big deal to snap a pic. I know most of us are visual learners.


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## LoriF

I third that.^^^


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## BigRedKnothead

Yes, yes. LoriF heads up my fan club….lol.


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## john2005

Widdle, I don't get it, am I supposed to pick a card….

I just got the Olson coping saw that schwarz talks up. Good deal at 12 bucks id say. Cheaper then my old coping saw but 5 times as nice. I also got the narrower 16 tooth blades that will fall down the saw kerf and make a cut almost as close as Reds KC saw above. Not having a smartphone, it didn't really happen though. 
Ps Red, those HBs look pretty good to me.

Also no fishtail here either. Just went down and got 2 big box 3/8 chisels, came home and ground one to a rt skew and one to a lt skew. Works pretty good. Not gonna say the fishtail wouldn't be nice though.

Lastly the "valley" I am referring to is the flat between the pins. I had spaced them wide and keeping them gapless inside and out was a chore.
The right lower of this pic shows it best from the pics I have taken.


----------



## WhoMe

Red, glad you mentioned the source of the Kc pics. I was going to mention the pic before de-colorization of the saw and ask about the spiral blade. But….Nevermind…

Nice dovetails by all.

I finally started cutting the stock for my 4 drawer dresser/chest. I'm debating on wether I should do a blog or not. other than documenting the build, and that the entries will probably be spaced far apart time wise, there is no ground breaking stuff going on. 
So looking for opinions on if it is worth it or should I just post pics and updates here instead like many are doing on this thread.


----------



## j1212t

I always enjoy reading a blog, biggest advantage is that even if you space them 4 months apart, I can still go back and look through them easily as long as they are under the same subtopic, on here you can't refer back as easily.

Amazing DT's by all, I can't wait to start try DTs, probably take me 3 years to get to the level you guys are, but all of you serve as great motivation to me, so thank you all and keep 'em coming!


----------



## CL810

Red are you using the divider method for laying out the tails?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Andy- I have been dabbling with that method and other things I've learned from By Hand & Eye. You may have noticed my graduated drawers on my joinery bench:

I'm doing the smaller set in the same manner. Totally learned the proper way to lay this out in By Hand and Eye. Used the formula from the vanity project the back of the book. I dig it.

So far, this is my favorite way to layout dovetails (from web):









Simply measure from each side uniformly, then leave whatever big tail you end up with in the center. It's simple…and I like the look. Pretty tough for a router to do that too.

On this current set of drawers I'm working on, the DT layout is hampered a bit by the drawer slide runners. I thought I'd use a big pin as the "stop". Not sure if I like this or not.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Agree with you Red. Pins remain the same, and change tail dimensions.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Right Paul. Uniform pins always looks better. But do you see what I mean but just measuring a couple tails from the outside edge and leaving a large center tail. I likey.

It seemed most of us like David Barron's through DT video the best. I think The Wood Whisperer's is my fav half blind vid. The dig at speed dovetailers is funny too.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mike- forgot to say, it's really your call on the blogs. Obviously they are a better record and easier to access than forum posts. But they can be time consuming. I make myself do them from time to time. I know they help others, and often I learn from the feedback.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I don't think the speed dovetailers enjoy dovetailing as much as I do. Of any part of a project, I think I take the most time doing DTs. I enjoy it, and find it therapeutic. Any time I have tried to rush dovetailing, it has taken me longer because of mistakes!


----------



## ToddJB

I think Mark is a great teacher, and makes superb videos. I think the biggest difference for me is that he just video tapes himself doing it, and then dubs his voice in later explaining exactly what he was doing, as appose to trying to fit his face and instruction in while going through the motions.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Agreed. Ol Marc Spaghetti is a pretty good teacher. Dude's pretty sharp. His podcast/radio show has me scratching my head at times….and not just because of they blast dovetail guides. Oh well, I appreciate what he does.

Paul- I could borrow some of your patience at times. There have been many times I could have turned out better work if I would have sloooowwwed down. I was getting to where I enjoyed through dovetails. Good results help. Half blinds will get there. I just have to get myself in the mindset for dovetails it seems.

Little trick to take just a wee bit of a tail. Card scraper with psa sandpaper. 








I got this fishtail chisel tossed in with the used set I bought. Since I'm a filthy enabler when it comes to hand tool purchases, you can see why it would help with half blinds. 








Finished yesterday with my best yet. The others are not as nice. 








Four down, four to go:








That's it for now. Last weekend of my stay-cation. Time to put a little mud on the tires.


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## john2005

Those are lookin mighty nice Red


----------



## chrisstef

+1. Toiight.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys. While I was playin in duh mud, I made a different sort of lumber run. This was the first time I fetched some reclaimed material. My buddy salvaged it all out of a house that was being torn down next to his farm. Here's most of it:









I hosed all the dirt off of it. I'm a little bummed it's not white oak. I was really hoping for the rot resistant sort so I could make some outdoor furniture. Nope, it's all red oak. About half 8/4 and half 4/4. I'm sure I can come up with something to make out of it…. I just don't have any ideas as of yet.


----------



## widdle

Good score


----------



## Wally331

Red I bet that wood is going to be beautiful once its planed up. If you don't want to use it in furniture there's always room for more shop furniture. Pfft knowing you, you'd use your $2/ bdft walnut instead though. Either way you cant go wrong with free wood. Have you tried any other styles then arts and crafts/ mission?

Here is a file cabinet I've been working on this week. That's right, a file cabinet, not filing. I'm going to use it to store my saw files and saw sets, aswell as other handle shaping rasps and so on. From the pictures it looks huge, it is only 12 by 16 or so. Through dovetailed and a groove ploughed in the back for a panel. I also cut 4 stopped dados on either side and inserted maple strips for drawer runners. I will cut a stopped groove in the side of each drawer to accommodate the strip.
The dovetails turned out pretty good, just of few spots of chip out but the tails and baselines are nice and tight all around. I tried mitered dovetails a the back to hide the groove. Little sloppy but not too bad for shop furniture. Chopping that much waste in oak sucks for sure though! Only had to sharpen my 20$ wood river chisels twice throughout, I love em. Its going to be a pain to make the drawers, probably 20 to 30 more dovetails to cut for that. Anyone have ideas as for what to use to compliment the oak for drawer fronts? I was thinking either sapele or walnut…


----------



## camps764

Couldn't really get into the shop yesterday, so I spent the day learning about sketchup and working on the design for the bookshelf portion of my daughter's new loft bed.

Here's a picture from the web that i'm using for inspiration…









And here's the bookshelf in sketchup









Not too shabby for a first time designing something from scratch in Sketchup. I didn't put the desk top or the lid in the plan since those are really easy to visualize in real life.

For whatever reason I've had a heck of a time learning how to use this tool. The biggest struggle for me has been getting a feel for moving things around in 3D space…nothing ever seemed to want to go where I wanted it. Yesterday I scoped out the Ana White tutorial and everything clicked.

Here's the sketchup of the rest of the bed. 









For that one I started with an existing sketchup plan that was similar and tried modifying everything. Now that I've got a better sense of the program I might start from scratch and redesign it though.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Wally- I have made a few things outside of the A&C style. They would probably be considered shaker. I'm more than ready to branch out. I'd have to go Modern or Asian or something. Turned legs, crazy ornamental trims and moldings just aren't my taste. 
Btw, nice dovetails…..you little knuckleheaded woodworking prodigy;-)

Camps- nice job on the sketchup. I should buckle down and learn it someday too. I'm torn because I still enjoy drawing things by pencil.


----------



## b2rtch

Red,
" I realize the risk with this method is blowing out the backside" 
To avoid this issue you could simply put another piece of wood (martyr) behind the piece you work on.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good call Bert! Ya know the next time I was out there, I was back choppin on the bench. 









I can't decide which gives me better results. I know my aching back prefers the moxon vise method.


----------



## john2005

Looky what was waiting for me when I got home for lunch. Couple of BigRed original walnut handles (feel pretty nice by the way) and one of Red dovetail guides. Between that and watching Barron's video the other day, I foresee a big improvement in my DT game!
Thanks bro, you rock!










They actually look way better in real life, it's just my phone …well let's just say it leaves something to be desired.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Oh ya, with my weekend travels I forgot to send you message. Hope the DT guide serves you well. Won't be offended if you prefer freehand. I think the guide gives a guy confidence with DTs.

Anyway. I tossed in a couple of my tool handle "seconds." You should be able to use them for rasp handles or something. Drill the hole out bigger if need be. Glad you like 'em man.


----------



## john2005

One of those handles already is set aside for the hock burnisher I ordered the other day. I had been using an old screwdriver on my card scrapers and that seemed to work. It won't even touch the hock scraper blade I got for the #12. Thanks again!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Cool John. Like I say, they weren't the best of the batch, but surely functional.

Couple questions concerning my recent lumber haul if anyone would like to chime in with help.

1- Fear of infestation. I haven't seen any signs, but should I treat this lumber at all? What do ya'll use to protect your lumber stashes from infestation?

2- Would red oak work outdoors if a guy used spar (marine) urethane on it?


----------



## DanKrager

Any film finish on any wood outdoors will have to be done within three years to keep it nice. I would use a waxy watery "oil" like Thompsons water seal on red oak, three or more coats to start and refresh as you notice it not beading up water. You can spray it on with a garden sprayer and it basically keeps the water out of the pores. Hopefully you've built it to prevent water getting into the joints, but if they are tight enough, this stuff helps. Good for cement benches too. It will still gray in the weather; you can't stop that if it gets any sun or bright light (like reflected sun) at all. It's the combination of ultraviolet and infrared working on the wood chemistry. Marine spar claims to reduce sun damage, but it does so sacrificially and you then have to remove the stuff (mostly) for the next coat. PITA. 
I plan to build some outdoor stuff and use TWS on it even though it is hedge. 
DanK


----------



## widdle

john.your stoked , i got one of those dt jigs from Red..Works good..Alot of thresholds out here are oak, if that helps for the exterior use..


----------



## chrisstef

I put some marine spar on some Adirondacks I made 4 years ago. Eff that stuff. It stinks to high heaven and got all flakey on my 2×4 masterpiece of Adirondack chairs. I hit it with a pressure washer as punishment and stuck them under a covered porch. Ill use cypress next time and no finish.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good call Stef. I was wanting to make one of these out of some of it:

But I think I'll just wait and get some white oak since it's rot resistant and then leave it natural.

I posted that reclaimed lumber haul on facebook and already have two people hitting me up to make them something out of it. Evidently furniture with reclaimed stuff is all the rage.

Last day of stay-cation. Bittersweet.


----------



## CL810

I researched outdoor finishes for red cedar project I'm working on and was surprised to read that varnishes should not be used. Being outside there it's too much expansion/contraction for a hard finish and it will split and peel. I don't know if that applies to other woods or not. The articles I read said to just use stain and sealer. I wonder what others have experienced.


----------



## jmartel

Got the drawer boxes sanded up and glued up last night for my end tables. Nearing completion, finally.


----------



## JADobson

I put varnish on some planters that I made last year and so far it has managed to resist the weather. That's a Saskatchewan winter with a very dry -55 degrees and a summer with a very humid +40 degrees Celsius. I did have trouble with the glue though. I just used a hardware store brand and it was definitely inferior to the brand name glues.


----------



## b2rtch

I use a deck oil on my outdoor furniture, it works well for me.
I buy at Lowes but I cannot find ti on their website
Here is what I use: ( I found it somewhere else)

CABOT 3460 1G JARRAH BROWN AUSTRALIAN TIMBER OIL WOOD FINISH
http://www.worldpaintsupply.com/cabot-3460-1g-jarrah-brown-australian-timber-oil-wood-finish/

I like the color, the look and the durability and one gallon goes along way.
I sprayed my old cedar fence with this stuff,after pressure washing it, about 4 years ago and it still look like new, no visible fading, I use it on my exterior tables and furniture as well as to refinish my kitchen cabinets.


----------



## byerbyer

I've had good luck Penofil Oil on my deck and a couple of out door projects. It penetrates well, and then you can touch up with clear every couple of years to keep it looking fresh. It's similar to TWS.

http://www.penofin.com/


----------



## widdle

I've used quite a bit of penofin, cabots and super deck .
All
Seam pretty similar ,
Re apply once a year more
Less. Wipe on , wipe
Of excess. That looks like a good cooler there Red.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Happy mothers day furniture makers. Here's me today.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Today's Newsflash: chopping half-blind dovetails in burled walnut is….hard. 









I'm starting to wonder if a pair of skew chisels wouldn't be better than a fishtail chisels. I'm paranoid about damaging the fishtail chisel, it's a little dicey to sharpen, and I don't think it'll have the life skew's might. 








Of course a guy could just make himself a skew chisel out of an old beater.


----------



## lateralus819

good stuff red.


----------



## Buckethead

So does it take a set of skews to get er did?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I guess you'd need both bucket. Those half blinds have some many dag-gum nooks and crannies.

I really don't need much justification to buy/try more tools. I have no life really;-)


----------



## john2005

Already mentioned it, but for the few HBs I have done, I just got a pair of cheap 3/8" chisels from the BBox and put a little angle to em. Yeah I had to sharpen more then a good chisel, but it was only the corners so not too bad. It's the way I would go again unless I all of a sudden quit my job and do nothing but fine woodworking. 
P.s. I will be broke soon and hitting you guys up for a place to crash if that's the case


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Come on out John. I built this "guest house" last year. Stef had to stay there a while last time he tried to tell his wife he was in charge.


----------



## john2005

Shoot, already looks like I'd be gaining sq ftg. . Bunk for the kids, throw us some power so we don't have to live in the dark like savages and we'll be right out.
The boys gonna go nuts when I tell him there's a trampoline.


----------



## john2005

.


----------



## john2005

Oh yeah, and since I can't figure out how to PM a pic










One Hock burnisher handled by Red….that may not have come out right but this is the "safe" thread right?


----------



## Iguana

Not if Stef pops his head in, it isn't…


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Just keep chioppin' away. Tools are expendable items meant to be used up, just not abused ;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Berry Nice John. Berry, berry nice….

Topa, I hear ya. But the first time I had to grind my fishtail chisel I was like, "Wooo doggies. I'm gonna run out of tail someday."


----------



## camps764

Nice work Dan…are those more drawers for the shop?

The wife decided to take the kids up North to her folks place for the day, so I got some surprise shop time in.

Slowly but surely getting a finish put on this slab table…the ash is crazy porous and just keeps sucking in the wipe on poly…trying to get a solid seal coat on before I start putting on heavier coats to build the film.










Did a little shop douche while I was waiting on the finish to dry…

Found a ton of scraps and off cuts…decided to put them to use. 









Not quite fine furniture, but a good way to use up some stuff that would have otherwise ended up in tonight's trash or Saturday's fire pit. Outer frame is some super old deck wood I scrounged up for a picnic table a couple years ago. Slats inside are random pieces of pine, 2×4, and some redwood. Little bit of black acrylic paint finished it up.


----------



## byerbyer

Looking sharp Steve!

Anyone have any experience building a kitchen island/cart?


















My girlfriend accepted a new teaching job a few towns over and the little house she'll be renting, while very cute, has zero kitchen counter space. These are the 2 finalists from the list she gave me and I'm thinking the winner will be a combination of the two…

I'm just getting started planning out the materials, joinery, hardware, etc… but if anybody has some tips or "in retrospect, I would've done it this ways", I'm all ears! 
Cheers


----------



## ToddJB

I've never built one, but my kitchen is pleading me to. The one thing I'm almost certain I will do is make the whole top end grain butcher block.


----------



## jmartel

I made one, but it was my first attempt at woodworking and it was built around a kitchen cabinet so it wasn't really any good.


----------



## chrisstef

A night in red's shed really showed her how important i am. Lets that be a lesson to you fellas. When your wife gets snippy go on and spend the night in a stuffy shed and come home smellin like another mans sawdust.

Carry on gents, carry on.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Byer - that's on my to do list for this summer. Might have to compare notes. I'll be starting mine in about 2 weeks.

Stef - "come home smellin like another mans sawdust".

See Mark. Its just like saying Beetlejuice 3 times.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Steve- Ya, those are the last drawer for my joinery bench. Probably overkill for shop stuff, but it was great practice. I'm confident enough to try DTs on furniture now.

Jason and Paul- I haven't built an island cart… but I'm sure I've seen plans in magazines to get ideas from. I can check my mag stash for you guys if you'd like.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Naw Red. Don't bother for me. I have to draw it, wife makes changes, draw again, wife makes changes again, make mock up, wife makes changes again 3 times, then I just build what I want. I have to listen to her rant when I'm finished, but she always signs off on the as-built. She will usually agree with what I made a few days later. I alway tell her she has tie-dyed taste and does not understand furniture, or construction. Our biggest arguements have been over finish carpentry (I have years of experience there. She has been a banker for 30 years) I always tell her "that's not how a carpenter would do it". She will reply "I don't care how its supposed to be done, I just want it my way"

S'all good though. Actually some hilarious arguements!

I'll keep you all posted on the design process. One thing we agree on is she wants the top made like my bench.


----------



## chrisstef

While i was working on some big DF timbers i looked at the pile of cut offs and thought the end grain up in a cutting board fashion would be killer lookin.


----------



## dbray45

While not an island, I did this project and my wife loves it. Funny thing about this stuff, you make what fits the space and requirement. Nothing is carved in stone (maybe wood), but if you make something really nice and it doesn't work as you intended, make a new one that is.

It can be as simple or as complicated as you see fit.

Paul - my wife has decided that when we move - in 4-5 years - she wants a table that looks just like my workbench. I am thinking that I will have to watch where she wants it put - garage or living room.


----------



## byerbyer

Paul - Your probably a month ahead of me then  I live in a geographical oddity (I'm two weeks from everywhere!) so it'll be a few weeks before I can even lay my eyes on some good rough lumber.

Red - Like Paul, I'll draw it, model it in sketchup, redraw, remodel, rinse, lather, repeat until we're (she's) happy with it, so I probably good on plans too. We have the same tastes so it not a real to-do. Most of my redesigns happen because I think of different (usually more challenging) joinery and implement it in sketchup to make sure it doesn't cause me grief when there's dust and shavings involved.

David - That's a neat looking cart. Funny you say that about the space and requirements. My only caveat was that if I build this thing it's got to work to fill her immediate need as well once we're under the same roof (hopefully sooner than later!)


----------



## dbray45

Never said it would be easy


----------



## theoldfart

Pulled out some toys to play with today, trying to finsh up a table to match up with some chairs I made for my granddaughter.









To save some time I did some rough 45 degree dados on the table saw. it left some rough spots so used my router plane and chisels to clean up the work


























Just some dowels to drill and an inlay for the top to go


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Right on Kev. I was using a router plane myself this morning- to clean up dados for drawer slides. Even a primarily power tool woodworker would find a router plane handy. It never fails when cutting dados on the TS, either one board isn't completely flat, or you don't apply even pressure. Router plane to the rescue.


----------



## theoldfart

Yea Red, it gives me excellent control when I finish dados and grooves. Also quite useful for tenons.


----------



## DanKrager

Outdoor furniture counts as furniture doesn't it? Here are some elements of an outdoor picnic table in process. I couldn't wait till the top was put on the base…it is just too pretty! Love this hedge! First coat of TWS on a 36×74" top. Had a "little trouble with my table saw" ripping the boards! Lawl!








































I used three hand planes to level this, the last one being a bedrock jack new to me. Not sure if I like it or not…seems to leave ROS tracks if you look closely… 
DanK


----------



## Brit

That is stunning Dan. Very nice work my friend.


----------



## CL810

Nice Dan.


----------



## JayT

Dang, Dan, love that top! Osage is gorgeous, especially as it ages and darkens a bit.


----------



## john2005

That's some nice work there Dan! Lookin good


----------



## DanKrager

Thank you Gents. There will be at least one more picture…sitting in its environment complete and delivered.
DanK


----------



## Buckethead

That is a cool table top. Amazing.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Man DanK, that live edge looks outstanding. Now I'm really regretting not heading your way on my vacation. Palm to face;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Finishing up the drawers for my joinery bench. With the hours adding up, I used locking rabbets for the rear of the drawers. Don't judge me;-)


----------



## Hammerthumb

I use locking rabbets also Red. Don't be so hard on yourself!

Awesome furniture Dan.


----------



## DanKrager

Here is the finished table in its new home. The new owners are SO excited. 
Features: Hedge wood does not rot. It is very heavy (as in doesn't blow away). Top is removable without tools but you can move the table without dropping the base. Does not wiggle…had 500 lbs of live meat get on the table and move about. Joints are mechanical so water can't cause disassembly. 

















Oh, and by the way, the wood is all green and wet. The top boards will not warp but they may crack a bit…not a problem. 
DanK


----------



## Buckethead

Dan, that is a beautiful, yet manly table and benches set.

Red, I am very happy to see you relent just a tad on your drawers. I have been feeling quite inadequate after attempting dovetails for the drawer joinery in what would become my hand tool storage. My first attempt at DTs was better, and my second set looks perfect in comparison. This attempt was. After spending an hour or more re shaping and sharpening a 1" chisel I had botched using a powered sharpening system. Power is dangerous.

I had already (shamefully) decided to forgo DTs for the drawer joinery. The tool chest is needed quickly, and if I take a year on it, I'll never get to a more fun build.

So speaking of dovetails, anyone ready to give these a go?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

DanK- that is outstanding. Well done sir.

Bucket- Don't sweat it. I'm amazed at the guys who jump into dovetails and other difficult joinery right away. There are other joints that are very strong but not as tough to make. I used locking rabbets as my sole drawer joint for a couple years. I can whip them out on a tablesaw in short order. Finessing with a block plane doesn't hurt either.

And I've never seen anything like that craziness in your pic.


----------



## Buckethead

This is from a library book I checked out. They are really just half blind dovetails, with a twist. The joint, un assembled is madness, but when assembled is actually fairly elegant. I have no idea who could manage to put in the time it would take to perfect such joinery, but then again, there are some seriously intricate carvings being done by some.


----------



## byerbyer

Awesome work DanK


----------



## b2rtch

Dan which kind of wood is this?
I love it.

I got my answer: Hedge wood. 
I never heard of it before.


----------



## john2005

Lookin mighty fine there Dan. I love the ability to disasemble. You really are a thinker!

BH, those HBs are just plain crazy.


----------



## Brit

Lovin' that table and benches Dan. Great work!


----------



## theoldfart

TerryR, you asked for a few pics of the joint I used on the table i'm building.



























I'm drilling the legs for dowels right now, pics tomorrow


----------



## Buckethead

That is some excellent joinery, Kevin. Mucho kudos.


----------



## CL810

Pretty slick Kevin. Is there a name for that joint?


----------



## theoldfart

BH, thanks
Andy, if there is I don't know it! I copied it from a table I have. Rescued it from a place where I used to work that was torn down.


















My project is a bit too small to use the threaded bolt.


----------



## CL810

Kevin, hope you continue to post about the table.


----------



## camps764

That is a really cool little joint. I like rescuing furniture too and checking out how everything was put together. Always neat to see the different approaches.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice work Kev. Although, personally I would have used something like this….









LOL. Wonder what they call that?

Well, the no 95 is quickly becoming one of my favorite joinery planes. It's primary use is edge trimming. The built in fence gives makes it easy to be dead 90 degrees. The angled iron makes for pretty curlies. 








-
But its also pretty slick for taking just a tad of of a rabbet or the inside of a dado. Here I am dialing in a locking rabbet. 









Locking rabbets are just another joint I machine barely oversized, then finesse with hand tools. In the past I've tried to machine them perfect, only to mess them up while smoothing or sanding. That changes the thickness of course.

Unfortunately the no 95 is in the same realm as a rabbet block plane. As in, the vintage ones are so rare they're not much cheaper than the LN. I recommend the left hand version of the LN (pics above) because interestingly it seems more appropriate for right handed folk. Well, unless your a southpaw.


----------



## b2rtch

Big-red, I think that the joint you show is very weak, I much prefer Kev's joint, it looks much stronger.


----------



## john2005

Very cool there Kevin! I like it


----------



## CL810

I recommend the left hand version of the LN 95

I just learned that lesson with my Veritas skew block plane. I think everytime I've used it, I wished I had a left handed one. Oh well, something else for the Black Monday sale.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Kevin - are you dowelling the legs and aprons? I think a little dimension adjustment and you could have used MTs. Cool joint though. I have used the angled piece for leg bolts before, but never recessed them into the apron.

Red, that is a cool little plane. Some day I am going to give Mauricio a call about the side rabbets he made for the last plane swap. I have been looking to get the LN rebate plane that you just picked up but everyone has them on back order. Needed one this past weekend.


----------



## WayneC

Paul, did you check Craftsman Studio?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Yeah - 8 to 10 weeks.


----------



## WayneC

Bummer.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Yeah. Its funny - I had to do the task the old fashioned way with a router! Never used a router plane before, but it looks like a real time saver for some small tasks.


----------



## theoldfart

Paul, yes to the dowelling. I realized later a beefier leg would have allowed M&T. Oh well, next time :0)

Paul, router planes are the bees knees in my book. I use both an open throat and closed throat. Well worth the investment.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Here you go Paul. Show's in stock. Highland is my next source after craftsmanstudio.

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/lie-nielsenlargerouterplane.aspx

Bert- I was just jokin about that wacky joint. I was trying to find a picture of the other way to make that joint kevin made…but I wasn't have any luck. But basically the dados in the aprons are regular 90degree dados and the diagonal braces are notched to accommodate.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Red. I'll get it ordered today.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

A good enabler knows all the dealers….;-)


----------



## Hammerthumb

Recommendation for open or closed?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Personally I don't see an advantage to an open throat router plane. I think some say it's easier to see what your doing. But I can see a disadvantage- say your working on the edge of a door. The open throat would make it tougher to balance the plane on the workpiece. That was my reasoning with the closed throat.

Here's an example with their small router plane. That would be a fools chore with an open throat.


----------



## Hammerthumb

those were my thoughts also. Purchase being made. Thanks Red and OF.


----------



## b2rtch

A friend of mine who has both the Lie-nielsen and the veritas router planes told that the veritas blade adjustment is much better,.
What do you think?


----------



## theoldfart

Red, I think this will illuminate your description


















Had I looked more closely I would have done this.


----------



## b2rtch

Nice joint. 
I like it very much


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yep Kevin, that's the way I've seen it before. Either way beat the heck out of some screws like the furniture mart stuff. I've yet to make a table that way. Even my big ol' dining table is mortise and tenon. Strong like bull….but a bear to move.

Bert- I can't say because I've never used the Veritas router plane. They're similarly price and both look like fine tools. I do like that the LN comes with the fence included. I believe veritas is extra.

For depth adjustment on a router plane, I never really cinch down the "locking screw." I put a little pressure on the blade, then slowly lower with the blade adjustment screw. Much like a bench plane. Works pretty slick this way.


----------



## Slyy

Walked into one of the more upscale furniture places in town today, just to take a look around, see if there was anything inspiring. Nothing really, not even very much solid wood furniture to speak of. I did find this though, maybe one of the most awful pieces of "furniture" I've ever seen. I think there's a chair under the lama that died on top of it…..









Also, they were asking 2,700 for it.


----------



## JayT

Evidently llamas are expensive.


----------



## Slyy

Meant to include this in my earlier post so:

A while back, the currently elusive Lysdexic mentioned the Thomas Moser furniture company. I ordered their catalog and one particular design of theirs really stood out to me. The Japanese-esque design of some of these pieces really speaks to me.


----------



## WhoMe

Slyy, you sure that was not Big Foot sitting in that chair??

Don, like the new website. It was fun looking at the restorations too.


----------



## GMatheson

Here is a table I just finished.



For the $6 I have into it I think it turned out pretty good.


----------



## JADobson

Hey everyone, I've been away for a while but my side table is coming along nicely. Had a two week set back because I didn't have enough clamps and couldn't afford more (sucks being laid off). No pictures for a while either. My 3 year old knocked the computer off the kitchen table and it landed on the flash drive stuck in the side. Computer is fine but I've got no memory for the camera.

Greg that is a great looking table. I usually don't like tapered legs all that much but yours look classy.


----------



## Slyy

WM, didn't really test it out. 'Fraid if I sat down the cat my claw my bum…..

GM for 6 schillings I'd say you done right by that build. Great little table!


----------



## theoldfart

Well, just have to fine tune the corner blocks and mill the hold down buttons for the top.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice work Kev. I see them pony clamps. Made in 'merica.

Sly- I dig Japanese furniture too. I'm finding myself more and more interested in contemporary designs. Maybe even some live slab stuff. These wide walnut planks I recently scored are opening up some different designs for the bedroom set I want to build. 








-
Until now I've always picked a design/plan and made the lumber fit that plan as best I can. However selecting great lumber… and then planning around it's dimesions is new territory for me.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

A glorious mess fitting drawers and wood slides.


----------



## byerbyer

Looking good Red! Almost ready to get back to furniture  It's been all sketchup and graph paper around my little shop lately so there aren't too many shavings to seep up


----------



## jmartel

Construction is nearly finished. I have to taper the legs, chamfer the tops, add the curves to the bottom stretchers, and then sand sand sand.


----------



## j1212t

That is beautiful!


----------



## b2rtch

jmartel, your tables are gorgeous.


----------



## byerbyer

Good stuff jmart!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yessir, nice use of that burl.

Jason- thanks for the kudos on my joinery bench. I wasn't as careful making that drawer casework true and square as I would be with a piece of furniture. I'm paying for it now. Lotta custom fitting. Oh well. The drawer sides are a soft maple and they plane nicely.


----------



## jmartel

Thank you guys. I am very anxious to see what it looks like under some finish.

I'm considering spraying lacquer instead of using arm-r-seal. Typically shows the figure more in my experience. What say you?


----------



## GMatheson

I personally like how well walnut works with lacquer. Used it on the table I recently finished.










And a bonus is how quickly it's dry and ready to go.


----------



## CL810

Question for the panel:

Extruded brass hardware (hinges, pulls, etc.) - How long does it take to develop an aged/weathered look? Is there something you can do to speed up the process?


----------



## theoldfart

I'm guessing that if it's coated probably a long time. Bare metal should not take too long to age especially if its handled a bit. There's got to be some aging treatments out there.
Hope this helps.


----------



## theoldfart

Buttons are on, next up easing edges and inlay, then finish.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ I'm loving it Kev.

Clayton- It takes awhile for brass to age depending on it's environment. If you want to speed it up a little you can use vinegar or other simple methods like this:
http://www.howtoantiquebrass.com/how-to-antique-brass-with-vinegar/

If you really want to get it to darken you can use "liver of sulfur" like I did on that copper top sideboard.









Either way, you can experiment. Any aging can be reversed with some brasso.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I gotta admit, i was force fed a giant slice of humble pie installing these drawers. Oh well, I learned from it moving on.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Jmart - those are beautiful tables!

Also a really nice table GMath.

Can't wait to see some finish on that table Kevin.

Sorry about the drawer fitting there Red. Square cabinets are the trick to easy fitting for sure. Came out very nice looking though. Also a big thanks for the lead on the router plane. Came in yesterday, but have not had shop time to play with it.

I myself have been working on another kitchen cabinet and have not had a lot of time to post lately. Dang day job gets in the way. I'll try to get a couple of pics up this weekend.


----------



## GMatheson

Looks great Red. When you're done you are welcomed to build the same bench for me.


----------



## CL810

Thanks Kevin & Red!

Man, Kevin, that table is flat out cool! Love the joinery.


----------



## theoldfart

'Tanks guys. trying to complete it for this weekend. Keep you posted.


----------



## theoldfart

Hey Red, keep the faith buddy. Now you can really say each drawer is custom fit! :0) Lookin' good.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Greg- I'd help you build one I enjoyed building the bench part. The cabinets have been a grind. I built the bench part in like a week. I lost count of the hours on the cabinets

Paul- Ya, I figured it was just a bench cabinets so slacked a little on the casework. Mixing higher quality drawers with not so high quality cases didn't go so well. 
Plus, I wish I had left the backs off the cases. Getting the wood slides marked and installed in a closed box was a bear. It was a learning experience to say the least.


----------



## ToddJB

Red, matching up the grain on your draw fronts… That's some grade A craftsmanship. They look great.


----------



## widdle

Kev,jmart and red holdin it down..Nice… red, what part of the construction is giving you grief..


----------



## theoldfart

Ever use these ?








Knocks the edges off really well


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Kev- I've seen those, but I've never tried one. Look pretty cool. I use my 102 to knock off corners mostly.

Widdle- I just struggled getting all the runners for the drawers installed so the drawer were smooth operating.

Todd- Thanks man. Notice that did ya? It is little things like matched drawer fronts that make a difference. Doesn't take much more work, just planning.

This sideboard was the first piece I really nailed it on the drawer fronts. It's still the nicest piece I've made imo. It's not in my house…..but it's in good hands.


----------



## ToddJB

Kev, what are those called?


----------



## theoldfart

Tod, Stanley # 28 & 29 cornering tools


----------



## ToddJB

Awesome. Thanks


----------



## robertb574

Lee Valley has them http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=32682&cat=1,42524
Lee Valley also has free shipping going on right now - so if you find $7.05 more stuff to buy….


----------



## jmartel

And as luck would have it, I wasn't paying attention and cut a taper on a side of a leg that wasn't supposed to. Man that was dumb.

Got some patches glueing it back up so hopefully you won't be able to tell.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Been there, done that Jmart. There's a couple hammer shaped divots in my outfeed table to prove it.


----------



## jmartel

I just let out a string of cuss words that would make any sailor proud. No hitting things today. It wasn't too terrible of a mistake. Especially since I had the exact tapered cutoff sitting next to it. Just needed an 1/8" spacer to fill the kerf.


----------



## theoldfart

^ I have made a few design changes in the past !


----------



## CL810

^ Gotta be nimble!


----------



## camps764

Jmart - sucks when you get in the groove and do something goofy like that. I've mortised the wrong side of legs before, and also tapered on the wrong side.


----------



## b2rtch

Clayton, you can buy "patina" or make it yourself

http://amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=patina

http://www.woodmagazine.com/materials-guide/finishes/instant-patina-for-brass/


----------



## CL810

Bert - Thanks! That Wood magazine process looks like the ticket.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Re: goof-ups. I have developed some pretty good work habits in attempts to avoid them. For example I thoroughly mark each leg with it's mortises. Often I number the legs with an arrow pointing inward at the top of the leg. Then I physically layout the table again before drilling or chopping.

I still screw up sometimes. Just not as much. A guy really needs to be on his A-game milling up drawer parts. Especially if your trying to match the fronts and any goofs would be catastrophic. Well….at the time it feels like the world is going to end.


----------



## camps764

Those are all good best practices Dan-o. I always try to mark out all of my joinery ahead of time so that I can verify it's correct. One of the things I learned from building some of Norm Abrams' projects. Like you, I still find ways to screw up once in a while.

The only time I usually get too upset is when it's unique stock, or the last bit of the project. Even then I try to get a little zen and remind myself that I'll probably be the only one to notice it after I fix it up.


----------



## b2rtch

Clayton, you are welcome


----------



## intelligen

I like the idea of a furniture making forum, but I think the idea of posting your progress on a project is somewhat already taken care of by the blog and project features.

Edit: I guess looking at some of the recent posts, maybe I misunderstood this thread…is this thread being treated as a furniture making forum, or is its purpose to drum up support for an actual furniture forum?


----------



## b2rtch

Rob,
This is the furniture making forum!


----------



## Hammerthumb

From the originating post:

*So I thought it would be cool to have a forum on the subject of furniture making. We can post questions, techniques, and progress of our current builds…..anything to do with building and designing furniture. We can post just for fun, or in hopes we learn something from each other along the way.*

It is a great thread and one of my favorites.


----------



## CL810

Ditto, Paul


----------



## theoldfart

OK, on to the next phase …. inlay! I've never done this so it's gonna be a big experiment. My materials and patterns









From left to right ebony, cherry, purple heart, and (edit ) Jatoba . The patterns are from Michaels craft department

I've resawn everything except the ebony to about 3/32" 









Have any of you resawn ebony? I seem to recall its incredibly brittle. Any ideas?


----------



## intelligen

Cool, thanks for the clarification, guys. Guess I'll have to favorite it!


----------



## August

Hey Red I just saw this forum.
This is very informative, 
And funny thing wife and I need a new bedroom furniture,
And wife wants to downsize to queen size,
And have built in.
I will try to read from begging and see the full trend.

And oh by the way you make good furniture. Nice job


----------



## jmartel

Kevin, I would highly suggest when you do your inlay that you use a knife to mark the outline of the object you are inlaying. Not sure how good your eyesight is (I tend to overestimate everyone's since I have 20/10), but if you use a router, you will notice that the fuzz around the cutting bit disappears as soon as you hit your marking line. That's when you know you are there.

Other than that, after you rout it all out, you should be able to semi-force the inlay piece in without glue, but you kind of have to just take a chance eventually and add glue and beat it in with a BFH.


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## theoldfart

JMart I had to laugh at the eye sight thing. I have 20/400 and only one good eye. I squint a bit ;-) I plan to use an exacto knife along with my router plane.


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## BigRedKnothead

Rob- Your right, project posts and blogs sure are easier to reference. But some of us sure like the ongoing "conversation" with threads like this. Welcome aboard.

Sorry Kev, I haven't tinkered with veneers or inlays much. I might suggest using a finer blade than your usual 3tpi resaw blade on the ebony if your concerned with it being brittle.

Here's something I wish I would have tried before:








I used to purchase super glue (CA) at the box store. This 2 oz bottle is about the price of a 0.5oz locally. I use a fair amount of CA glue for little tearout, repairs, etc. Also a drop of CA glue while sanding will fill little gaps on dovetails and the like.


----------



## Iguana

Kevin,

I've resawn ebony. No real difference than most woods, and easier than jatoba. The only thing to mention is that the sawdust can be a bit gummy - you might have to clean your guides afterwards.


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## theoldfart

Thanks Mark


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## BigRedKnothead

She looks like she's smokin….


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## theoldfart

Red, hook it up to your shop vac. Keeps the media cleaner longer and the vacuum helps a bit with keeping the tool in flat contact with the piece.


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## BigRedKnothead

I hear ya Kev. Unfortunately the ridgid setup with a shop vac is pretty sad. The hose just friction fits into the sander, and the vac is so loud you have to wear hearing protection…..or go crazy.

I always said if this one took a crap I'd try to spring of the festool. I could probably swing the $200 sander….but the $400+ vac will have to wait. I have demo'd that setup and it is sweet.


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## Pezking7p

Red, can you describe your use of CA to fix tear out and gaps in a little more detail? Just fill the crack and sand instantly over the top? Also, I hate the orbital sander. Need to find a vacuum solution or something similar.

Wedding planning is over. Honeymoon is over in a few hours. I hope you guys are prepared for my kitchen cabinets.


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## theoldfart

Yea, I have DeWalts and they hook up with friction as well but have had no problems. I do use hearing protection with all my power tools since I have either Dc or shop vac hooked up to all of them. 13 years in a shop and ten not using protection has taught me a lesson!


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## BigRedKnothead

Kev- I used to be terrible about wearing a dust mask or hearing protection. I've gotten a lot better, but my distaste for them has been a factor in my attraction for hand tools.

Tim- I too loathe the ROS. I use it less and less….but the darn thing is so efficient and useful.

For the CA use, one of my fav. little tricks on a small crack/gap is to put a drop of CA glue and run the ROS over it. The sawdust mixes with the glue and fills the crack. Sometimes it takes more than one application. Coincidentally this is what I was doing this morning when my ROS burnt up. I was using a respirator and I highly recommend it. The fumes/dust from CA can't be good for you.

Also, I use CA whenever I have a little blow-out/chip out issue:


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## camps764

Ditto on the CA glue trick!


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## theoldfart

Ready for the bugs?









Next up, cutting into the table top. Scarry!


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## BigRedKnothead

I love it Kev. I hope I get to make cool stuff for my grandkids one day.


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## theoldfart

Red, you'll be lot better at it than I am. Everything i'm doing is new to me. I need to make a fret saw jig for my vise tonight so i can finish.


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## BigRedKnothead

Any inlay would all be new to me. I'm thinking about trying some bow tie inlays soon. Are you gonna use a lectric routah to clear the waste….or something else?


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## Buckethead

Nice bugs, Kevin, and don't let the cool kids give you any crap over them. ;-)


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## theoldfart

Probably my MF routah. I might use my Dremel router to clear the bulk of the waste leaving about an 1/8". Then the MF to the lines, at least that's the plan right now. Scared I'll screw it up and it's supposed to be in a showing this coming weekend. I procrastinate.


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## camps764

Bugs are lookin cool! Will be neat to see them finished up.

Spent the whole weekend finishing the waterfall table. Will be posting as a project later, but figured I'd post it here first.




























about a zillion thinned out wipe on coats of Poly to seal the top. That ash was crazy thirsty…I never thought it would seal. Each coat got a quick sanding with 320 to level it out before the next coat.

After that it was two brushed on coats of poly


Code:


 1:10 ratio with mineral spirits - just to help it level between coats.  After the second coat it got a rub down with some 220 on a block to clear out the brush marks, then a rub with 0000 steel wool.  Followed by two final wipe on coats

 a 50% mixture.

The guy wanted it high gloss…so he got high gloss! This thing is crazy shiny in person…as always pics don't do it just IMHO.


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## Pezking7p

Steve, that thing looks killah! I never understood the desire for high gloss tables but the customer is always right! Did you enjoy the waterfall process?


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## camps764

Thanks dude…I was all smiles this evening after I finished it up. Couldn't wait to show it off.

The customer is definitely always right.

I don't know if enjoy is the right word..j/k I did enjoy the process, I had to do a lot of problem solving to make it all work since I have limited tools.

I had to cut the 45's with a circular saw since I couldn't slide the slab across my table saw (too heavy). Unfortunately that led to not quite 45's. Had to do some shimming.

Then had to figure out how to glue it together since it was technically end grain to end grain AND it needed to support the weight of the top. I didn't want to place my bets on Titebond 2 holding up over the long haul. I could have done butterflies - but the customer didn't like the look. So I went with long screws counter sunk way in and some shop made walnut dowels to cover them up.

Lots of odds and ends like that along the way.

Would I do another one? Sure! Would I do it all the same way? probably not.

You thinking of doing one yourself?


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## BigRedKnothead

That turned out great Steve. You turning into quite a furniture maker.

Most of the processes I've shared or blogged about exist because I tried things a couple different ways before I found a method I liked. Sounds like your on the same path with these tables.

I can see why people like the live edge stuff. And it difficult for the furniture mart places to fake;-)


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## Pezking7p

I like the water fall tables because they are distinct, and as Mr Red says it is clearly not from a furniture store. I strive (or rather I WILL strive) to make sure my furniture is distinct from something you buy at Ashley or some other furniture store. But it's not really my style right now so I don't see myself making one. I DO really want to make a slab table, though. I love slabs.

Definitely have to do a lot of problem solving when making anything with limited tools. That's part of the fun though.


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## camps764

Thanks Red - I appreciate the compliment!

It definitely would be hard to fake, and after making one, I can see why they aren't cheap to buy either…it was really a labor of love (read time consuming).

Pez - They sure are distinct, each one is it's own thing. I think when they are done right, they are outstanding. The slab tables are a whole other beast - especially if you can get a really funky live edge slab with wild grain. Like this one ala Dan Mosheim on LJ's.

I agree, it is part of the fun. My tools actually aren't that limited these days…but a slider style saw would have made that portion of the process a heck of a lot easier


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## Hammerthumb

Getting caught up.

Red - those things don't work once you let the smoke out. I have never mastered puttin the smoke back in.

Kevin - I would think you would have more trouble re-sawing the purpleheart. I have ruined bandsaw blades on PH because of the resin. I would think ebony is the same, but not as bad. Make sure you clean the blade.

Camps - really nice table. Great job!


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## camps764

Thanks Paul! Really appreciate the compliment!

I'd like to add the table to my "portfolio" but am struggling with figuring out where to take pictures of it to show it off the most.

If it was your table, where would you all snap pictures? Outside? In the house it's going to?

I'm struggling since it's kind of a big coffee table and it's hard to get good shots of it to really show it off.


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## byerbyer

Nice work Camps!


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## BigRedKnothead

Okay, my 3 year old just explained to me how she was creating her craft with a "line of symmetry". Guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree


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## theoldfart

Paul, no trouble with resawing. The fecal matter went through the air circulation device when i went to cut out the inlays, no skill on my part so postponing for the moment. More on this latter!


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## BigRedKnothead

Camps- it seems a lot of guys use a sheet or some sort of back drop for nicer pics. I'm not much help, I've done a terrible job at taking pics and documenting my work. LJs has helped with that.

Paul- what kind of setup do you use for ROS and vac? We all the know the festool stuff is spendy, but the other combo setups by bosch and mirka are just as much.


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## Hammerthumb

Red, I have a Porter Cable ROS and a Alto Clark vac system that I used during my hardwood floor career. But I don't use an ROS very often. These days it is mostly hand plane, and hand sand. Seems that I have a lot of tools that I don't use anymore. Have not pulled my compound miter saw out for ages as it is a pain in the @ss to set up. Have a 22-44 wide belt sander that I used about 2 years ago. I should go through my tools and get rid of some!


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## Pezking7p

How often do you guys just use a smoothing plane and finish on top of that? I imagine this is what you did before sandpaper. I'd be real tempted to do that on a lot of pieces…


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## b2rtch

'Paul- what kind of setup do you use for ROS and vac? We all the know the festool stuff is spendy, but the other combo setups by bosch and mirka are just as much."










I use Mirka sanding disks, a Ridgid (the same the Red has)ROS and the Dust deputy mounted on my shop vac, it works great for a fraction of the price of a festool.


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## JayT

Depends on the finish that will be used. Oil or clear coat, I use the smoother and move on to finish.

If you are going to stain, then hitting the surface with a bit of 220 after planing breaks up the fibers and allows the stain to soak in a little better for a deeper color. Stain over a planed surface just doesn't do much.

I don't know how planing vs. sanding affects dye-never used it.

Also, all surfaces need to have the same final treatment before finish, at least in my limited experience. Planed, scraped and sanded surfaces will each look different once the finish hits them.

*Red,* my setup for when I need to collect all the sanding dust is a Fein Multimaster with the 4-1/2in round pad and a shop-vac with a paper filter installed. Almost zero dust gets past that. It's not quite as good of a sander as a Rotex or similar, but the dust collection is superb.

Usually I just run my ROS in the shop with the doors and window open.


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## Pezking7p

JayT, Cool to know. As I've gotten better with my planes, I realized that my planed surface is usually better than 220, which got me thinking about this.

From a purely equipment standpoint, does anyone know what's in a shopvac vs what's in a dust extractor (like a festool)?

Seems like the hardest part would be getting airflow across the surface of the sanding disc to draw all the dust as it's generated. Shouldn't be hard to design a sander that acts this way.


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## jmartel

I've got a Dewalt Low Profile ROS. Also bought an adapter to hook it up to my shop vac. Almost no dust escapes at all. It's quite nice to have.


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## intelligen

Dan, more than a couple Festool owners have confirmed that normal shop vacs can work just as well as Festool's dust extractors if you're only talking about dust removal.

Although you probably need at least a somewhat decent vac, at some level the amount of dust captured will depend largely on the tool's design as you noted.

What you're paying for in the Festool, Fein, or other premium vac are the higher-end features and creature comforts such as quieter operation, auto on/off (when the tool turns on, the vac turns on), filter unclog feature (a motor vibrates the filter to shake the dust off), locking hose connectors (rather than friction fit), anti-static hose, improved onboard or attachable storage, etc. The boxier designs also seem to be more space-efficient and less clumsy to pull around the shop, but that's just speculation on my part.

On the subject of creature comforts, if you have Festool stuff, I think the proprietary power cords detach at the tool end so you don't have to walk around to the vacuum to switch tools. For example, you just unplug the hose and power from your track saw, then plug in your sander-as opposed to having to unplug your Skil saw and plug in your Porter Cable sander, and potentially getting the two tools' power cables all tangled up.


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## JayT

Shop Vac vs dust extractor-both do similar jobs, but one uses higher quality parts and will last much longer, kinda like comparing a Harbor Freight table saw to a Powermatic. Biggest advantages for dust extractors vs shop vac:


Dust extractors are much, much quieter.
Better seal between parts of the case. Shop vacs will leak where the top meets the tub, a dust extractor will seal completely so that all vented air is filtered. As such a shop vac, even with a HEPA filter cannot meet air quality laws for such things as lead abatement or dust control on a jobsite.
Most dust extractors allow you to plug a tool into the extractor so that when you turn on the tool, the extractor starts automatically and then runs for several seconds after you turn off the tool to finish pulling dust from the hose.


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## b2rtch

"I've got a Dewalt Low Profile ROS. Also bought an adapter to hook it up to my shop vac. Almost no dust escapes at all. It's quite nice to have." 
The problem with that is that without the dust deputy the filter fills with dust right away. 
With the dust deputy I clean my filter may be once a year or less and the suction is still excellent.
I use an HEPA filter which gives me the cleanest air as I am allergic to wood dust.


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## intelligen

Adding to what Bert said, you can also use filter bags instead of (or in addition to) the cyclone to prevent the filter from clogging all the time.


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## Buckethead

On the festool topic: I played with the sander/vac set up at my local WW store this past weekend. Daddy want. In fact, the narex (SCMS), the track saw, and the Rotex. Say… Anyone got a spare ten grand lying around? PM me.


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## BigRedKnothead

Pez- Pretty much agree with what Jay said about smoothing. My goal is to get a surface ready for finish via smoothing….but it doesn't always work out. And if your gonna stain, the surfaces need to be the same. Another reason I don't like stain. I don't fret about shop stuff. It's all full of plane tracks…and that's how I like it.

Re: Dust extractor setups. I also the positives Jay lays out for extractor over shop vacs are why I'm considering one. Dust collection/extraction is pretty much a safety device, and we all know we're more likely to use a safety device that is more convenient and quieter.

Plus, this will be the 3rd ROS I've went through in 6 years. The ridgid was just past it's 3 year warranty. I sure get tired of "throw away tools." As in, the break down often usually cost as much to repair as to replace.

Anyway, if I go the dust extractor route, I'm gonna need to sell some more furniture this year;-)


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## Pezking7p

Makes sense. I know the festool items are very nice and worth the money from what I've read, but I have virtually no experience with what the features actually ARE. If I ever got to where I was making a lot of furniture, I might look at their stuff pretty closely (like red said, if it dies, I'm going festool).

Bert/Rob, I would imagine a settling tank would be critical to any dust collection process. I'm sorely lacking in dust collection, and the dust irritates me pretty badly so if I'm going to be using a lot of power tools I always wear a mask (I hate the masks). Anyone ever blow the dust outside? Is this legal?


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## BigRedKnothead

I shoot my shop out with compressed air often. Neighbors haven't complained yet.

Festool's routers and everything else hookup up to the dust extractor nicely. Thus the allure…and the price


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## Hammerthumb

Although I have the Alto Clark extractor, I have used the Festools system and would rate that the best for dust and noise. Well worth the money in my opinion. Also agree with JayT about the sound level of the extraction systems. Shop vacs would make me crazy. Some are louder than my DC system.

Pez - as far as wearing a mask, I wear a respirator and have gotten use to it as I have become allergic to some species this last year, and it has helped me considerably, I will wear this whenever working with these species and will gladly put up with that over having an asthma attack.


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## widdle

the festool dust goes into a bag and the filters remain totaly clean..i dont know if its just my shop vac( ridged ). But it obviously sucks up dust , but the air coming out the exhaust kicks up any dust in the shop, creating more air borne dust..


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## BigRedKnothead

^Agreed. I do appreciate hearing all your perspectives. Bert especially always has some practical and cost-effective solutions.

I was thinking, when I first starting getting serious about woodworking 6 years ago, I thought people were crazy to spend the cash tools like Lie Nielsen went for. Now I appreciate the quality and I rather just save up for that.

Even a year or two ago I thought Festool and others were overpriced….but now I'm starting to justify it. Goofy tools.


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## theoldfart

Table done sans inlay


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## b2rtch

Thank you Red.
"Bert especially always has some practical and cost-effective solutions." 
I am proud of this one:









' I always wear a mask" 
only if you buy and the use the most expensive 3M dust masks it does you no good to wear one and in fact it gives you a false sense of safety and so in the end they are more dangerous than nothing.
To really help you a dust mask must stop the finest particles, most dust mask only stop large rocks and let the fine particles trough right into your lungs where they might cause cancer.
The most expensive 3M dust masks are as good as an HEPA filters, these are the one you need.









In addition built and use an air cleaner in your shop to filter the fine particles, that you do not see, floating in the air and entering your lungs even when you do not sand or do something else.
I build one and I use MERV 16 filters in it.
Before the filter, when entering the shop in the morning I would immediately start sneezing and coughing, no more. The air in the shop is now cleaner than the air outside.

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/45679


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## john2005

^nice

Love the tables Kevin, I am sure they will be appreciated with or without inlay.


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## Buckethead

Table really looks great Kevin.

Bert, I am digging your router lift. Very ingenious. Did you blog your build of it?


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## b2rtch

Buckethead:
http://lumberjocks.com/b2rtch/blog/29941


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## BigRedKnothead

Kev- bummer the inlays didn't work out, but they still look great.

Bert- Often I wrestle with the "buy it or build it" for shop stuff. I usually just want to get back to building furniture. That said, I totally should just built the Jet Fine dust filter as you did. Darn thing is just a box, a squirrel cage blower, and some filters.


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## Pezking7p

Kev, table top looks smooth as a baby's butt. Maybe you'll get the inlays next time? I thought they would have looked really nice.

I *try* to think of shop time in terms of billable hours. If it doesn't save me approximately what I make at work, I buy it….unless I'm really interested in making it. Like furniture. I mean, you have to spend your free time doing SOMETHING.


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## CL810

Kevin that table looks very nice.


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## DanKrager

Yes to the fine looking table, TOF. Maybe I'm not taking enough meds…did you show what inlays you were going to do? And what went south…I mean I haven't done much inlay work and I would like to learn from your experience…heheheh.
DanK


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## theoldfart

Dan, here you go









Bought the colorful ones from Michaels' and cut them out from Purple Heart and Jatoba. No trouble resawing and planning thin, just used double edge tape and I was able to get down to 3/32" or so. Problem occurred when I started to do the fine cutting to match up the design.


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## jmartel

Kevin, for solid inlays I typically leave them thick. I find it easier with a thicker piece to inlay it, and then use a pull saw to cut most of the excess off. After that, I sand it all down with a belt sander or a ROS.


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## theoldfart

J, do you assemble the inlay first then set it into the table top?


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## jmartel

Nope. I inlay it piece by piece, sanding each one down flush after I put it in.


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## theoldfart

So you cut your recess first and cut your pieces to fit?


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## DanKrager

Ok, I remember the pic, thank you for the prompt. 
"... Problem occurred when I started to do the fine cutting to match up the design." Now I'm struggling with what this means. Don't give up on me… I really am a quack study. Fine cutting on the inlay? On the table? Sawing? Carving? 
DanK


----------



## fatandy2003

Here's a great tutorial on inlay from the wood whisperer. It is not the only way to inlay (and definitely not the way to do an intricate/detailed inlay. But for the inlays Kevin is doing, it would be a good method. I used this method on a piece that I started 4 years ago, and may finish in this decade…

http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/router-based-inlay/

Cheers,


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, not ignoring your question, just have a lot of errands to run. I'll clarify my babble tonight.

Andy, will be watching the vid tonight as well.


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## jmartel

Kevin, I cut the pieces first. I just leave them extra-thick. I.E. I usually cut it from 3/4" stock.Trace around them with my knife, then rout out the excess, make sure the fit is right, add glue and pound it in with a BFH. After it's in, I cut off the waste with a pull saw and then sand it flush. Sawdust mixes with the still wet glue for any gaps and you're done.


----------



## Pezking7p

Anyone incorporate carving into your furniture? Know a good resource to get started? Tools, techniques, guides, etc.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Andy- thanks for the inlay video. That was really good. Marc Spaginski is my hero.

Now I really want to try some inlays…..but do I have the patience?;-)

Pez- Carving…yes another tangent to the craft. Ahhh!


----------



## fatandy2003

Yeah, Marc is pretty awesome. Here are some previews of the inlay (it's about the only thing finished on this piece). I followed Marc's method using 1/8" rosewood and maple.










Cheers,


----------



## COMO

I have been woodworking for a little while now but have never built a bench for myself other than the rough ones i threw together to keep me off the floor. As I learn more about furniture making I would like to hone my hand tool skills and am thinking a good bench would help in that pursuit. I would like to keep it on the smaller side. The problem I am having is it seems all the beginner benches use a lot of bolts and ply wood. Any ideas on plans to use hardwoods and more traditional joinery? I got to say I was originally going to go the plywood route but fell in love with Reds shop. Now I have to spend some money. SorryRed when my wife asks about the bill i am throwing you under the bus. Also what vises are a must on a first bench? This forum is my favorite one to read on the web. Hopefully I can contribute at some point.
Thanks


----------



## theoldfart

COMO, head over to the workbench smack down thread. Lots of advice there.


----------



## CL810

^+1 and get Schwarz's blue book on benches.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

COMO- welcome to the forum man. I'll gladly get thrown under the bus if you if it enables you to have as much fun and enjoyment out of building a proper bench as I did

I agree with my friends Schwarz blue bench book is a great place to start. It covers the function and design of each part:
http://www.amazon.com/Workbenches-Design-Construction-Popular-Woodworking/dp/1558708405
Scott Landis's books prett good too:
http://www.amazon.com/Workbench-Book-Craftsmans-Workbenches-Woodworking/dp/1561582700/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1402152441&sr=1-1&keywords=landis+bench

Those will have some plans more along the lines your looking for. My first bench was this very simple bench from pine, but you could make it out of hardwoods. 
$175 workbench pdf.

The Blue book by Schwarz has the plans for a roubo without the dovetails through the top, which is probably a a little more in some people comfort zones.

And ya, as Kevin noted there's a lot of benchheads on the LJ bench forum who could give further help. But first you need to find a plan you like. Then find a lumber source. I recommend trying to find a small time sawmill or the like in you area. You don't need select quality lumber for a bench. But your gonna need a lot of it. 
Keep us posted!


----------



## neverenougftackle

Paul I am just a bit late sitting here and looking over your picture of your cabinet,,,,I just had to stop to say, well to echo to all that a that cared to take the time above me,,,I too sure do like the design and how well you put it together, well done Paul !! well done. (second 15 over)


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## BigRedKnothead

Somehow I missed Andy's inlay. That is SHARP brother. But I've seen the stuff you've contributed to the tool swaps….so I'm not surprised;-)


----------



## fatandy2003

Thanks Red. That project may be done in this decade  I tried to do something WAY beyond my skill level and am waiting to finish when I know what I am doing… I'll keep watching this forum to help my knowledge.

Cheers,


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well, I held off on the Festool plunge for now. I call it a "plunge" because it feels like there are so many compatibility issues….and the cost keeps adding up. When I realized my large stash of mirka ROS discs would not be compatible, I decided to wait. Picked up dewalt ROS for now.

Other news, I really did this American Bungalow line by Thos Moser. The solid casework, with a reveal between the side frames is very interesting to me. 









I also notice in their close pics that they have rather large reveals(spacing) around their drawers. I think Schwarz says he aims for 1/32. I've definitely never been that good. I aim for an 1/8"...but usually end up with more. I claim it helps with the "piston effect" on the drawers;-)


----------



## jmartel

1/8" all the way around? For the stuff I've read, it seems like 1/16" on all sides is the default. FWW typically recommends using a penny as a spacer. That's what I've been aiming for. Course I'm also using ball bearing slides and not wooden guides. And I'm only fitting the drawer front because of said slides.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I usually cut the faces to a tight fit to the case, and then hand plane for the fit and reveal. I think 1/16" or less is what I usually end up with, but it depends on the piece. I don't really measure the reveal, as long as they are all the same and look good.










Notice in this pic how the sides of the drawer are pretty tight to the case, and the slight lip of the junction of the drawer face to the sides at the top. I did not use drawer guides for this chest. The drawers were hand planed to fit and the face was dovetailed to the sides so the reveal at the bottom of the face is taken into account. This means that the drawer sides ride on the web frame, but the drawer face still has a bottom reveal and does not contact the face frame. If I was in a different climate, I would have to make this a little different due to wood movement, but here in Las Vegas, this works perfectly.


----------



## Pezking7p

Red, if you look closely, the cases on that American bungalow line are actually separate from the frames…the case is hung from the top and attached to the legs at the bottom with angle brackets. I like the look, but don't like the hardware.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jmart- Ahh shoot. I meant to say I aim for 1/16". Ya, 1/8" is pretty big. Not to say some of my early stuff might not have that. The perfectionist in me would love to have piston fitting drawers with a 1/32" reveal, but I'm not there yet. I think I've got a decent 1/16" on the joinery bench drawers I just finished.

Pez- I could tell the frames on the Moser pieces weren't attached…but I didn't know how they were doing it. Not sure I would be crazy about exposed hardware either. I just like how they came up with something to spruce up a solid case….and yet leave room for wood movement. It's tough to make a solid case look something other than shaker imo.


----------



## Pezking7p

At some point far, far in the future, I intend to base the design of my tv stand off that t. Moser piece and another Asian influenced buffet. I love the design features.

I'm clueless about drawers. I used to think you needed a dovetail or a track of some kind, but I see doucette and Wolfe setting drawers right on the web. Is there anything wrong with that? What's the practical weight limit of that type of support?


----------



## camps764

Totally agree on the American Bungalow line BRK - I also dig the solid case work and sides. There are also a ton of cool little details that make the whole piece shine.

Curious to hear how ya'll would approach the legs on the table pictured below: 









Are the little indents (lack of a better word) done with a router? Maybe a chamfer bit following a template? I think it's a cool detail on an otherwise overdone table design.


----------



## Pezking7p

Stopped cut on a chamfer bit IMO. The hard part is dropping the piece on there without damaging anything. My end table is modeled after the American bungalow occasional table. Planning a whole living room set featuring the same design features.


----------



## jmartel

Yep. It's exactly that. A 45 deg chamfer bit, stopped at the ends. Then it's probably feathered in a bit more with something like a rasp.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Steve, like the guys were sayin, stopped chamfers a pretty easy. You can use a bearing guided chamfer or cove bit and clamp blocks for the bearing to stop against. Or you can do it on a router table and mark where you start and stop.

Pez- it was a revelation to me when I realized quality drawers didn't need a track, guides, or slides. When the drawer and case is properly made, they will function well as a box just sliding in and out. As always with a router, don't try to do it all in one pass.

Matter of fact, I think you asked about the inner workings of drawer casework a little while back and I didn't have a very good response. Luckily other did. I'm still learning about the higher quality methods myself. Most of the stuff I've made would be more like "woodsmith" quality than "fine woodworking."

One quality way to build solid drawer casework is to use web frames. And! There is a great article about them in the lastest FWW. Better yet, this is supposed to be followed up with an article on drawers next issue.


----------



## camps764

Thanks fellers, that's what I was thinkin too.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Steve- "As always with a router, don't try to do it all in one pass." Was supposed to be on the end of the paragraph about stopped chamfers. Not sure what happened there. That's what I get for posting at 2am after work


----------



## ToddJB

Statement: There are a lot of acronyms thrown around on this thread about furniture making, especially when it comes to the style or construction of the furniture.

Question: Is there a location that already exists that breaks down what these acronyms mean, and the defining features of that style that are obvious enough to merit an acronym?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

This may help TODD (totally obstinate, delicate dude).

Acronym Glossary

It's on my favs.


----------



## ToddJB

Thanks RED (Rancidly Excreting Dork [I chose to be tame on the "D"])


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Lawl. I've been called worse. My step-dad just referred to me as $h!+ for brains…...but I didn't think very much of him either


----------



## ToddJB

I didn't think very much of him either

I wonder why? Some people suck. Sorry man.


----------



## RPhillips

Red, I need to buy a descent router and just can't seem to hit the buy button yet. I'm stuck between investing in Festool from the start or saving some cash and going with a DeWalt or Bosch possibly upgrading later. I want to have dust extraction at some point too and probably will invest in a Festool ROS at some point too… so I'm on the fence with ya.


----------



## Pezking7p

Rphillips, what is your router experience so far, and what kind of work are you wanting to do with your new router? I've been using my Ridgid 2.25 router a lot lately so I've been thinking about what I like/don't like.


----------



## jmartel

I've got a Bosch, but there's no dust extraction. There is a dust extraction port if you buy their straight edge kit, which is $40, but I just made my own straight edge jig for it for free and vacuum up the chips later.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Rob- no 'lectric routers? I've got like six- one for every bit…hehehe. I believe I bought two of them new. The rest were from garage sales and the like. Once you get comfortable with one, they are such a time saver. Even with my hand tool zeal, I bust out the 'lectric router quite a bit.

I really don't think you'd be throwing money away to purchase one now with the intention of getting a festool plunge router someday (like me). Your probably going to need an extra one to mount in a router table someday…..and that doesn't need to be a festool.

Dewalt, Porter cable, Bosch…..all make quality routers. My personal favorite is the Bosch. And variable speed is worth the extra cash.


----------



## b2rtch

Rob,
I bought a Milwaukee combo ( fixed and plunge base) on Amazon year ago,I love it

http://smile.amazon.com/Milwaukee-5615-24-1-75-Horsepower-Multi-Base-Includes/dp/B000QV35AK/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1402612410&sr=8-9&keywords=milwaukee+router

At the time I paid only a little over $250.00 for it.

I also have a Bosh 2 1/2Hp in my router table and Rigid trim router.


----------



## camps764

Pawn shops also seem to be filled with routers. Must be easy to steal or somethin…


----------



## Pezking7p

The biggest complaint I have with mine is it's a pain to change the bit. Pushing the button, holding the bit in place, and trying to get the wrench through that hole, all at the same time, can be frustrating. Need a "quick change" chuck or something.

So far the most important part of routering seems to be buying the expensive bits.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Pez- Ya the bits can really add up. I'd love to tell you I have a bunch of made in the US Whiteside bits….but I don't. For the amount of routing I do, I get by with rocklers I've bought on sale….and a lot from here:

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/

Ya, it's all imported crud, but they're carbide tipped…and they work pretty well for me. Plus, I dig the free shipping.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Speaking of routers, I'm gonna do some bow tie inlays this weekend. I'll do it in the same fashion as Mark Spaggerolli (mark with knife, freehand router, Chisel to line).

I've seen guys do it with patterns like this. That just seems even more involved to me.


----------



## jmartel

I typically buy Freud bits. I've found them to be good quality for only moderately more than the Rockler bits.


----------



## ToddJB

Wow, thanks for the link, Red. If you just starting out their 66 piece kit shakes out to about $3 a bit.

http://www.amazon.com/MLCS-8383-Carbide-Tipped-Router-2-Inch/dp/B001L4LHA6/ref=sr117?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1402683339&sr=1-17


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, freud bits are very nice. I there are some very good bits out there. I guess I really see router bits as disposable in a way. You can't sharpen them, only clean 'em. I've ruined one or two with a nail or something…and then I cursed that I had bought a high dollar bit. My two centavos anyway.

Yep Todd, that's what I mean…..and they are decent bits. Their Katana line is up there with the best, but then the price goes up.


----------



## DanKrager

Router bits can be sharpened, though it is a tedious pain to do it. Saved my bacon a time or two. Carbide bits can be rubbed on a diamond plate keeping the face of the cutter flat. HSS bits can be done the same, or use a stone. Matter of fact, I recently bought a bowl bit with bearing that was dull out of the box. A few strokes on the diamonds makes it cut like hot butter.
Sears used to make a router bit sharpener attachment that worked reasonably well. The special stone was chucked in the router and a gizmo attached to the plate indexed the bit. 
DanK


----------



## Pezking7p

I burned something pretty badly with a router bit, then spent an hour sanding off the burn marks. I'll never go super cheap again.

I'll buy whatever brand, as long as the quality is good. I don't believe the foreign = junk and USA = quality.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

DanK- good to know. I was always worried sharpening a router bit would change the profile. I do know cleaning them with a pitch and resin cleaner helps a lots. Same as tablesaw blades.

Pez- Can't say that I've ever had burning issues do to a cheap bit. Usually I find that's cause by have the bit speed too fast (why I like the variable speed), or because I need to speed up the feed rate.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I don't believe the foreign = junk and USA = quality

I agree for the most part Pez. My "made in 'merica" comments are really based in desire for jobs to be returned to our country…..and my disdain for labor practices in other countries. But that's another thread


----------



## Pezking7p

Turn down the speed, you say? Hmmmmmm…


----------



## DanKrager

Even a super sharp bit will burn, especially in woods like cherry, unless everything is just right. The most common mistake I make is not feeding fast enough. Over time I've learned how fast to feed (by hand) and not overload the router or split out ahead of the cut. Also, taking the cut in two or more steps helps. Make the first cuts heavy and the last cut 1/16" or less so you can move the bit briskly with no risk of splitting (usually). That tends to remove any burn marks of the first cuts and minimizes the risk of adding burn marks in the last cut. Corners are always high risk areas for burn, but if a burn occurs in a corner, it can be taken out with a proper carving gouge. Other accidental burns on the straight cuts respond well to scrapers. Sanding is tedious by comparison.
DanK
Edit: turning down the speed is good suggestion. Not all routers are so equipped and some that are don't go down far enough, e.g. Festool.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Happy Father's Day ya'll. Sending a big hug out to my pops who passed away in '79. See any resemblance?;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Oh ya, I've been posting my bowtie inlays endeavors on the bench thread. This is one of those things I him-haw about making a tutorial blog. I always have my own twist on things, but it's not a whole lot differenent than the wood whisperers video…or anyone else's.


----------



## lateralus819

Wow Red, you look just like him! My dad passed in 2006 from cancer. Always a rough day for me today.

Nice bow ties!


----------



## Buckethead

Miss you, Dad. Happy Father's Day to all the Dads out there!


----------



## camps764

Spittin' image Big R. Out of curiosity, what are you bow tyin?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, those who knew my dad are always tripped out at our resemblance. Now you know where I got these huge mitts;-)

Steve- I put those bow-ties, butterflies…whatever, in my joinery bench. It was great practice. That darn thing is very nearly done.

Remember when I used to build furniture;-) Well, I need to bust something out for a wedding gift. I plan on making one of these little "Tabouret tables." (that's French for 'plant stand'....not really). I've made a couple of these and I already have the patterns. This time I'd like to make it out of walnut. And, I'm thinkin about using a nice burled piece for the top. Maybe an ebony butterfly? Get crazy Red!


----------



## Pezking7p

Happy Father's Day boys!

Red, I believe it's been a few months since you made something. A bathroom cabinet I think.

Milled poplar tonight for the first time. It's easy to see why this is such a popular wood, it works like a dream.


----------



## pintodeluxe

Good work on the inlays Red. Your results look perfect. The Whiteside inlay bushing and a plexiglass template makes the job even easier. I guess it depends how many inlays you are making.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Willie. I'd have to try one of those template kits to know for sure:









Basically I made a butterfly, marked it with a knife (and pencil), forstner bit most of the waste, freehand routed the rest. Then just dropped a chisel to the line. I did 8 at the same time working through steps.

It might take a little longer by hand, but the options are endless. It's kinda like dovetails- you gain some speed and convenience with power tools. But you give up some design options and creativity. Each have their place I'm sure.


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, just an FYI, and perhaps you already know…one is not limited by the templates you can buy. You can make your own template in any shape or size you want. Trick is to use the bushing and its collar to cut the hole and the insert. It's pretty cool, though I haven't done it, to overlap the inlays to get some pretty complex designs.

Like you said, it all comes to work preference. The electron chaser only makes things noisy and speeds up production work….some.

BTW, my son is a foamer and they've known what you call them for a long time! Many of them are former railroad workers themselves. He actually listens to radio conversations between the train and dispatch via the Internet. He likes the excursions on the antique coaches, and one can track the route of the train via Internet

DanK


----------



## camps764

slightly embarrassed that I had to look up foamer in the urban dictionary.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"You can make your own template in any shape or size you want."

Good point Dan. Never thought about it that way. So much to learn. I just keep tossing my knowledge and experience out there hoping you guys will add to or correct if I'm wrong.

Re: foamers. Of course I'm just goofin about them on the shop thread. They make my job a little more fun. If your son is a railroad nut I can sure hook you guys up with some calendars and other fun stuff;-)


----------



## jmartel

Red, the problem with the template technique is that it isn't as easy to do more decorative things.

I decided that if I ever had to do a butterfly inlay, it would be similar to one on SMC that I bookmarked:


----------



## widdle

^ nice..Im poachin that….


----------



## jmartel

Yeah. It's something so simple that makes you wonder "why didn't I think of that?".

I don't care for the look of the traditional bow-tie inlays, and if I had something that required it I would have put it on the underside, but I like the look of the above.


----------



## byerbyer

Nice bow ties gentlemen. Bow ties are cool!

I've only had the need to do them once. I had a drawer front on my rolling tool box that had a bit of a check in it.


----------



## camps764

little baby bowtie


----------



## Pezking7p

Much like reds shop, objects are closer than they appear. That chest is 10' tall


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nicer fellers. Jmart, thanks for posting that butterfly. Something like that would be great in an Asian influenced piece. I'll be using that too.

Post joinery bench build shop:









Friggin mess. Some days it's a drag being a muggle.


----------



## byerbyer

Haha… There's a dime on the floor for scale


----------



## RPhillips

Awesome stuff guys. Love the Bowties/butterflies!

I have an older B&D plunge router that is IMO junk. I rigged it up to be used on my router table when I need it, but as far as experience goes, not much. I've only used it a for a couple of projects, but I see the potential that it has for future projects.


----------



## Pezking7p

So we parked for lunch today, I look over and we have parked in front if the Thos A Moser showroom. Needless to say, I meandered. Quite a pleasant surprise. Got to see the American bungalow table I copied, as well as a configuration of the sideboard I want to build next.










Very cool chair


----------



## CL810

How nice is that?!?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ohh that would have been a treat Pez. I hadn't connected that your table was from that line that keeps coming up.

I still have butterflies on the brain. Can't decide if light colored flies look good with walnut…








or ebony:








-
-
And I don't think I could handle this as a dining table. It's….uh….well…


----------



## widdle

ebony…


----------



## ToddJB

Is that intensionally a torso (and some)?


----------



## Buckethead

Eat out at every meal.


----------



## jmartel

I think it looks more like a panda face. I don't know what you guys are talking about….


----------



## Pezking7p

"Dad look my cereal bowl fits right in here. It's my bowl holder!"

I like the ebony. I dream of one day making a slab table. Maybe cherry or elm.


----------



## camps764

Panda face FTW.


----------



## Pezking7p

I have a feeling "panda face" is going to see a lot of use at my house, now.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

hehehe. You can see some interesting "art" when you bookmatch stuff.

I was leaning toward ebony too. Got some ordered. However, I've been working about 70 hours a week…so it'll have to wait for the weekend.


----------



## DanKrager

So, BRK, you gonna do the episiotomy? 
DanK


----------



## b2rtch

' episiotomy" I had to look at the word.
Dan, you know so many things!


----------



## DanKrager

23 years of data network engineering for health care should have taught me more…
DanK


----------



## Buckethead

Snip


----------



## CL810

Red, I think it was on this thread that you talked about using superglue to fix holes in wood. Well, I tried it and I must be doing something wrong.









I put a drop of super glue in the hole and then rubbed sandpaper over the hole, to fill the hole with sawdust. The glue line is what looks like I marked a circle with an ink pen.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Hence your tagline Clayton….hehehe.

It's tough to tell from the pic, is the sawdust not staying? Sometimes it takes a couple applications.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Furniture making, let's see if I remember how to do this.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Just like riding a bike.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Made a lot of headway on this tabouret table this morning. Shoot, I had all the pieces roughed out before anybody else is my house had gotten out of bed
Here comes some of the natural edge/Asian influence. Hope I get it right. This burled piece has a void. Tried to work that into the top, the flip the scraps around for a good matching glue up. 








-









Then starts the pattern routing. This method is crazy efficient for making matching curved parts. Essentially make a pattern out of mdf (I like 1/2"), draw that pattern on the pieces, rough cut with bandsaw about an 1/8" away from line. Then carpet tape the pattern to each piece and use a bearing guided pattern bit to trim the parts exact.









I gotta give Paul some props. He recommended a spiral flush trim bit for this back when LJ Stef was making a mess of some pattern routing (lawl). So I picked one of these up from MLCS when they were on sale:







\
Friggin thing cuts like butter….even on end grain. Little spiral chocolate shavings. 








-
Goes together with a "quadrilinear rabbet"....Yes I used spell check. 








-
And….to show LJs influence on my work….this is what I have in mind. Just black cardboard now. Soon to be ebony. Wuddya think?


----------



## CL810

Wuddya think?

Awesome.


----------



## ToddJB

Looks great, Red.


----------



## Buckethead

Does look fantastic.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Easy guys…..don't want it going to a ginger's head. lol


----------



## ColonelTravis

Agree, Red, that's going to be a nice little table thereeeeeegads that head!


----------



## jmartel

Glad my contributions have tainted you, red.


----------



## chrisstef

Dont screw up when its ebony game time Rojo. No pressure.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Ha! I hear ya though. Kicker is, I've never worked with ebony. I just know it's hard as a rock.


----------



## Pezking7p

I've heard it works very well, red. Just hard on the edge tools. Holy crap talk about progress! Band saws are awesome.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice little table Red. Doc can give you medicine for that swelling.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Knowledge is free….... at your local library.


----------



## Pezking7p

I've got that furniture book. It's a great book. I'd like to hear what you think about the joinery book.


----------



## Brit

Red - I've almost got the complete set of the Complete Illustrated series. They are all great books.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good to hear Andy. So far they look pretty good. I often test out books at the Library to see if they're worth a purchase. These look like something a guy would refer back to.

As I posted elsewhere, I got the ebony butterflies done yesterday. They turned out ok. In my haste get them done on my day off….and before the US soccer match, I made a few mistakes. 
1) I forgot the little notches in the wings, which actually simplified things. 
2) I got the grain direction wrong on the ebony. It should go cross grain for strength. 
Only woodworkers will notice that. I'm not really worried about these being structural. I still believe they're somewhat durable being 3/8" ebony….anyway. Not gonna beat myself up too bad over my 2nd attempt at inlays.

















On the positive side, they fit pretty well on the first attempt. If I keep doing detailed work like this, I'm gonna need to get some carving tools or something. Bench chisels are clunky for inlays.


----------



## camps764

I think they look fine man. Just tell everyone they're bats…before you know it everyone will have bats insteada bowties.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Notches? We don't need no stinkin notches. 
They look dandy from here.


----------



## CFrye

Awesome butterflies Big Red! Nothing there to beat yourself up over! Should be a well received gift.


----------



## widdle

sweet bats…


----------



## byerbyer

Look sharp (sans notches), BRK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Notches? We don t need no stinkin notches.

hehe… that had me laughing pretty good. Thanks guys. I'm sure it will make a decent little wedding gift.

I really liked working with ebony. These exotics are growing on me.


----------



## byerbyer

This may be a question for the bench thread, but since we were discussing books a little earlier… I've had a few books in my Amazon cart but I keep rotating them back and forth between "wish list" and "cart" for a while, so I thought I'd throw this out there.
Would you put Schwarz's "Workbenches: From Design & Theory to Construction & Use" as a "buy" or do you reference it much after you've built your bench?

How about his "Handplane Essentials"?
I'm also looking at "By Hand & Eye" and "With The Grain: A Craftsman's Guide to Understanding Wood", and/or "Why We Make Things and Why it Matters"

The budget hasn't allowed for any tools to be purchased this summer, but I could swing a book or two and keep learning and dreaming!
Cheers,
Jaso


----------



## ShaneA

I don't have either of those books, but be sure to look second hand first. Thriftbooks.com and other sites of the ilk, can save you some serious coin. I have bought lots of WW books in the $2-4 range delivered. Worth a shot.


----------



## widdle

byer.I just got that workbench book after hearing lots of people recommend it…I have not read it, but there were alot of pics of his roubo and his Nicholson..And very little pictures of other styles..I personally lern more from pictures soo i wasn't impressed…


----------



## Pezking7p

I got the blue book. I don't see it being useful for anything other than bench building or design. Red book may be different but I've never read it.

Red, the inlays are awesome. You just trace the butterflies and the apply chisels?


----------



## b2rtch

I buy used books on Amazon.
So far, I always was satisfied


----------



## CL810

OK, I'm going to bring up filling holes in wood again. In post #2377 I showed a pic of a hole I attempted to fill with super glue and sawdust which I was never able to do satisfactorily. I experimented with with white glue & sawdust and Minwax's Stainable Wood Filler & sawdust. The wood filler seemed to work best in my tests so I went with it.

This pic is of the filler & sawdust after the piece was oiled. So my question is, is this as good as it gets? If not please tell me how you get better results.


----------



## ShaneA

A face grain plug would be an option.


----------



## pintodeluxe

For nail holes 18 gauge and smaller I like soft colored putty with a topcoat over it. Adding the topcoat keeps the putty from lightening in color as it dries. For bigger holes, I doubt it anything will fill the hole and blend in well.


----------



## DaddyZ

Why not take a pencil / pen / Paintbrush & paint in some texture


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jason- The only book on your list I can speak to is Schwarz's blue bench book and By Hand and Eye. I can't say that I refer back to the blue bench book a whole lot. But then again, I don't really need to. I pretty much consumed and memorized it when I was planning and building my roubo. It's darn near mandatory reading if one is planning on building a handworking bench….imo.

By Hand and Eye- I view Lost Art Press as the Lie Nielsen of woodworking books. Yes they cost more. That's because they are better quality. They are all made in the US and they refuse to put out junk. I have of their books and I like them all…. a lot.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ok Clayton, I'll try to help. At first glance, it seems like there is not enough CA glue in that hole and the sanding dust is dry. Usually with this fix, the repair can be too dark…rarely too light colored.

Here's a loose little knot I just did on that table. 








So I put some drops of CA on the knot and ran the ROS over it…and it looks like this. 








I can tell there's a little slurry, but dry sanding dust on the top. So a little more CA.








Then I run the ROS over it again and let the slurry dry. When dry, I hand sand any CA left on the surface and apply some oil. 









I admit it works better on knot or places were a darker spot might not look out of place. Also, when possible I will make a small plug or sliver with the correct grain and CA glue that first. Then I trim the repair and go to this method to fill the remainder. 
Don't ya wish you could just swing by for a beer and we could show each other some stuff;-)


----------



## chrisstef

Don't ya wish you could just swing by for a beer and we could show each other some stuff;-)

Red's on some 3rd grade, behind the wood shed stuff CL810. Id be wary.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Yeah, but he's serving beer!


----------



## JayT

My process, and I admit to only having done it a few times so am not an expert, is to sand and let the dust fill the hole/gap, then add a drop or two of CA glue. While it sets up, the sawdust will compact a bit, so you do it again. Usually 3 or 4 treatments gets me to surface level. It takes a bit longer, but I've been happy with the results and they are darn near invisible once done. The CA repair seems slightly darker until adding an oil finish and then blends right in.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Might want to try this out on a sample piece first, but take a small carving gouge and elongate the hole, then fit a small piece into the valley. Then do Reds filler process. I think it makes a less noticeable repair than a round hole.


----------



## byerbyer

Thanks for the tips all. I'm probably going to pull the trigger on the blue bench book soon and start obsessing about a new bench, and maybe even a Lost Art Book. As I typed this I recalled, I think I have a FWW Workbench book lying around somewhere… Maybe I'll throw that one up on Flea-bay to fund some other reading material.

CL810 - I've never tried the CA & sawdust method, but 5 minute epoxy & India ink has worked well for me in the past. Like Hammer says a making the the defect "not round" helps distract too. In my opinion, making the repair darker than the material being repaired is always better than lighter too.


----------



## CL810

Thanks guys! I knew I could count on the 'A' Team delivering some great ideas.

Yea *Paul*, I'm a big believer in sample boards. There's one on my bench with about 10 holes that I tried to fill.

*Red*, I'm thinking I need to get some slower setting CA glue. Do you use thin, medium or thick? 2 years ago we took my Mom to her 75th high school reunion at East High in Des Moines. We told her we'd take her back for her 80th so keep the beer cold!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Clayton- This the stuff I've been using. However I've used all sorts. I don't think the gel CA's work very well. A slower dry time might help. With that stuff I've got, you have to get right after it.

3 years from now??. I say we're all gonna have to meet up at a WIA or some sort of woodworking school before then;-)

And buddy, there's never a time when there isn't cold beer very near my shop.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sanding really is one of the only task in furniture making where I do not enjoy the work, just the result. 









I did plane the parts as best I could, but I had a little tearout and walnut just feels great when you hit it with the finer grits.

Thanks Kevin (aged flatus) for recommending the Dewalt ROS. It seems like a better made too than my old ridgid. Hooks up to the vac better too.

Yes, that is MY pink tube on my assembly table. What of it?


----------



## theoldfart

Glad it worked Red. the tube? you had stitches? trouble sitting?


----------



## Hammerthumb

I would normally hand sand something like that. I did not like sanding for a long time, but then figured out that I was over-sanding. On walnut, I would just hit it with 220 a couple of swipes after planning.

I think the tube is what he wears around his waist so that he doesn't bump into the handle on his vise wheel. ;-)


----------



## DanKrager

Cl810, I second two of the above for an invisible patch. I think BRK mentioned pulling a sliver from a matching piece (waste?) with a gouge and using the same gouge open a shallower "trough" for the sliver to lay in just proud of the surface. When glued in with a caul, the bugger all but disappears after sanding, no fill required. These are sometimes called boat plugs for obvious reasons.

Someone else (I can't see it again….) mentioned a cross grain plug. A good cross grain tapered plug will do the same, and on a walnut project I completed a while ago an experienced woodworker could only find about half of them. I bought tapered plug cutters and they really are the cats meow.

Another method rarely used because it is a bit tricky to master is to pull a sliver parallel to the grain BEFORE driving the brad or nail, leaving the sliver attached at one end. Drive the fastener under the sliver, then glue the sliver back down, again clamping with a (glue proof) caul. This is a variation of the boat plug theme. For small fasteners, there is a special tool that looks like a tiny plane with a handle on the tail. It is actually a tiny gouge set in a tiny plane like fixture to control the depth of cut. Like this:










DanK


----------



## CL810

Thanks Dan, think I'll practice the boat and gouge methods.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Great post DanK. Your a wealth of knowledge sir!

i was addressing Clayton's CA glue/dust question…but it got me thinking about all the ways I fill nail holes, voids, cracks. I'm not sure there's a lot of rhyme or reason, just whatever I think will work best at the time. Couple thoughts:
- the only wood filler I've ever like is a product called "plastic wood" by dap. It works alright, but I have a tough time matching with limited colors.
- CA glue or epoxy and dust work well if I'm repairing a chip out or something where the repair will look decent if it's darker. 
- for little brad nails and such, I like these colored wax pencils:


----------



## Pezking7p

DanK, the sliver method completely blew my mind!

Anyone here ever attempted to steam bend anything at home? Equipment? Is it hard? Any caveats about wood returning to it's original shape or splitting/changing dimensions? Books?

I'm just being curious.


----------



## DaddyZ

Sliver Method Exactly why you need a Stanley 96

I never heard of the sliver method until I found a 96


----------



## CL810

There's a 96 listed as BIN for $275.00.


----------



## DaddyZ

No Bad for something you have to add the Blade to.


----------



## byerbyer

I was in a house built circa 1950 recently and all the standing and running trim was installed using the "sliver" method. Pretty awesome that someone took that kind of time to hang all the trim… and there was a bunch of it.


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## BigRedKnothead

Lumber run. Still stockpiling walnut for a bedroom set. Also after white oak again to make some outdoor furniture. 








-
Check out this 10" bandsaw blade from an old mill. 








Pretty stoked about some 18" walnut boards from the same log. A couple of smaller ones with great figure too. 








-








Good fun.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Pez - you can make a wood steamer with a wallpaper steamer and a piece of 4" black PVC. If it needs to be larger, I've seen them made with a plywood box before. I have the PVC, but lent my steamer out to a friend to remove wallpaper. Never got it back. I use to steam baseboards and quarter rounds for flooring installation. Made a few pieces of furniture with steam bending, but since I lost the steamer, I have not made anything bent unless I did cold laminations. As far as spring back, it will come with experience how much you need to over-bend. Once it sets though, it will stay that way. Some woods will bend better than others. One other thing, have a form ready to put the steamed piece onto. You have less than a minute to get the wood into the form before it starts to freeze up on you.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Red - is that the blade your going to use for the saw swap??


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## BigRedKnothead

^That my be a bit difficult to get started Paul;-)

Pez- never have messed with steam bending. I know Kevin did recently. I have done glued bent lamination's with success. Although my preferred method is to just find some stock thick enough to cut the curved pieces.


----------



## theoldfart

The pieces I bent were small enough to fit in a fish poacher on the stove! I intend to build a steamer since I want to make dining chairs with a complex curved back/leg.


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## Pezking7p

Red, I'm jealous of your stockpiling. Are you concerned about using walnut from different trees on the same piece? For some reason, this is my greatest concern about buying lumber from locals.

Thanks for info on steaming. After visiting thos moser last week I've been thinking about their curved chairs. Also been looking rapt a lot of shakes with curved features. Kinda sexy, really.


----------



## Pezking7p




----------



## BigRedKnothead

"Are you concerned about using walnut from different trees on the same piece?"

Ya lost me there a bit Pez. That doesn't worry me at all. It's a luxery to find stock from the same log for grain matching….or even book matching. When you buy lumber from most lumber suppliers, there is little or no effort to keep the log together. Ya just have to match grains the best you can.

Those are some sweet chairs. A Maloof chair is on my bucket list. I need to stock up on some gouges and rasps first.


----------



## Pezking7p

For some reason I thought you were supposed to get all your boards from the same tree if possible. When I've dug through the cherry at my main supplier, I can tell which boards are from the same tree so I thought it was common.

A sculpted chair build would be a dream come to life.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Huh, never stressed about getting boards from the same log. I wonder what others think on that.

Jumping back to books for a minute, I recently finished Marc Spaguendo's "Hybrid Woodworking." Pretty good book. I picked up some helpful things. Throughout the book I kept thinking, "Man, I wish I would have found this book about 5 or 6 years ago." I've tried lots of different hybrid techniques/approaches….and pretty much arrived at the same conclusions as Marc has. I did pick up some new ideas, but a lot of it was stuff I've been doing for a while.

Anyway, the book is well thought out and well written. I recommend it to anyone getting started who has the intention of working with both hand and power tools.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Fixed your pics Pez:


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## ShaneA

I typically just pick out boards that have the color and grain patterns I am looking for. No real need for a sequential flitch. If I need a grain or book match, I make sure to get the proper size/thickness to allow for resawing for book matching. When I was buying the lumber for my bed, I went to my retailer several times over several months till I acquired enough ribboned mahogany to make it look cohesive.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Interesting Shane. So far I just try to load up on cheap wood hope I have enough to make it all work

If you guys haven't seen Shane's bed, it's certainly worth a lookie.


----------



## ShaneA

Oh I do that too. More bullets in the chamber, better chance of hitting something. I buy walnut, QS sycamore, white oak, and occasionally cherry from a local sawyer. He has low prices. When he empties his kiln, I tend to buy whatever I can afford. But, he doesnt deal in figured maple, mahogany, or many others that sometimes I need to use. So I am stuck at full blown retail (boo!) I hoard the walnut…typically in the $1.50-$3.00 range depending on amount, grade, size.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Where do you guys find these local sawyers? Man, I need a local sawyer.


----------



## jmartel

God I would kill for $1.50-3.00 walnut. I can occasionally find it on craigslist for $4-$5, but it's typically $6.75 full retail.

I did get some Claro walnut for $1.50/bdft and some 8/4 Black walnut for $4/bdft though a few months back.


----------



## camps764

claro at a buck fiddy? that's awesome man.

The locals are where it's at IMHO. I've picked up loads of walnut in the $1.25 range, maple around $1.00, and some really awesome cedar around $.75-$1.00/bf.

Plus, as Red can attest, you get to hear some really cool stories, and hang out with some interesting individuals who are usually more than happy to entertain your questions as long as you want to hang out.


----------



## byerbyer

I'd take any and all of those prices… I thought I got a deal on some 8/4 walnut for $4.4/bdft and I had to drive 300 miles to pick it up


----------



## ShaneA

I inititially found the guy I deal with the most on Craig's list. It has been 3 or 4 years ago now. He has connections with tree services, and companies that clear land. So he usually has more logs than he knows what to do with. I enjoy visiting with him, and looking through his stock piles. The prices are great, and it really is only about 10-15 minutes away also.

Walnut retails in the $5.50 to $7.00 range around here too. So when I get the chance to buy cheap, I do. I think I have about 450-500 ft stashed.

I just check CL regularly. I bought 200ft of white oak once for $200. There are deals if you are looking consistantly. The exact opposite for tools on my local CL. Everyone here thinks well used stuff is worth 90% of retail. Odd.


----------



## jmartel

I live in an area with a TON of trees, but they are all softwood trees. Not interested. So, hardwoods tend to fetch more premium prices. And much less local sawyers that do anything but cedar/fir/pine


----------



## theoldfart

I kinda like vertical grain DF.


----------



## JADobson

I have the same problem as jmartel. Northern Saskatchewan has nothing but pine and poplar. And the local sawyers only cut pine. I called the lumber yard today to price out some ash. s2s 4/4 ash was $5.95 bf. Walnut is upwards of $7.50. Forget about mahogany.


----------



## jmartel

OF, old growth DF can look good and be good stuff to work with, but that's still expensive as well. So no advantage to it. One of these days I'm going to grab a trailer and find someone east of me that mills hardwoods and bring 500-1000bdft back. Re-sell some to pay for expenses.


----------



## chrisstef

Sheesh, all this walnut talk sounds cheap to me. Last time I hit the wood hut it was almost $10/bf for 6/4. Must be some type of walnut shortage on the east coast.


----------



## Pezking7p

Good wood is hard to come by.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Tell me about it. I gave $40 for those 18" walnut boards yesterday….lol.

Finding a local sawyer or cheap lumber source is something that comes up often. I'll note some ways again:

- woodfinder.com
- Woodmizer - find out who has a portable sawmill near you. 
- Word of mouth. The best sources I've found by asking folks at local woodworking guilds/clubs. I even asked the big commercial retailer and they told me about one. 
- The craiger. For those who don't have hardwoods in their area to be milled you might be resigned to find folks selling it at a loss as Jmart has done.

Keep in mind, when you venture out from high quality hardwood dealers your gonna have to educate yourself about air dried vs kiln dried. And you need to feel the mom n pop mills out to see if they know what they are doing concerning insect infestation etc.


----------



## jmartel

One thing that I have noticed is that if you buy from local sawyers/craigslist people, you tend to get less quality boards. By that I mean that the boards typically will have more of a crown/bow/twist in them.

Boards I buy from a dealer I can throw through a planer on each side, no jointer needed, and the edges are straight enough to joint on the tablesaw. From others they typically need a rough flattening on one side with a hand plane.


----------



## JADobson

To bring this back to furniture for a minute, I finally finished my taborette that I've been working on for a while now. 


It was a very fun build with lots of new things for me to learn. Pine is starting to get old though. I need to get some oak. And with that, we can get back to lumber prices.


----------



## Pezking7p

Jmart I feel the same way. I went to a cheaper lumber dealer once-still a very large mill, just cheaper-and spent twice as much time milling boards. Not worth $25 in lumber IMO.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Agreed. If you buy lower grade stuff the price difference has to justify the waste.

I posted much of the build here, so here she is….


----------



## CL810

Has anyone tried Watco's liquid wax?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I have Andy. It's the only watco product I haven't cared for. It didn't haze up and behave like other waxes I've used. I think Howard's citrus paste wax is my fav.


----------



## CL810

Have you tried Renaissance wax? I'm doing an oil and wax finish on my current project. At $30 a can it's painful digging out a scoop Never used Howard's before.


----------



## pintodeluxe

I tried Watco, and didn't like it. It is too thin and runny. It felt greasy and was difficult to buff off. 
I prefer Howards Walnut wax.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Are you asking about this stuff?









I've just used that on tools. It's alright, but pricey for what little you get.

edit: really the only only waxes I've used are minwax and howards. Minwax builds more and need to be buffed more. But I like them both for different applications.


----------



## JADobson

I've only used mini-wax. I like it. Never had a reason to try anything else so far. Red is right though. It does need that extra buffing.


----------



## ToddJB

To clarify Red are you referring to Howard's Feed and Wax?


----------



## ColonelTravis

Been tempted to buy Renaissance Wax. Isn't their big selling point the British Museum uses this stuff? Many years ago I bought a toaster model used by the Queen of England. My toast didn't improve. But it didn't go backwards.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^hehehe. Lee Valley has a knock off of Renaissance wax that is probably the same stuff. 
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=20090&cat=1,190,42950&ap=1

Todd- Actually I'm talking bout this stuff. 









Comes in different colors. Pinto's the one who turned me on to the walnut color. I dig it. 
http://www.amazon.com/Howard-CS0014-Citrus-11-Ounces-Neutral/dp/B000LNSIZ0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1404047169&sr=8-1&keywords=howard+citrus+shield


----------



## ToddJB

Thanks Red


----------



## JADobson

Quick question for you guys. We've had a lot of weather fluctuations here lately and I'm really noticing the wood movement on that little side table I built. But it is weird because it appears that one of the legs is getting shorter. If it is raining outside the table sits flat on all four legs but when the weather is dry it only sits on three and has a bit of a rock. It is a pretty negligible amount (1/16" or so) but I didn't think wood was really suppose to move in that direction. Any thoughts?


----------



## CL810

James is the table top staying flat?


----------



## byerbyer

Squeezed in a little shop time over the weekend and got most of the rough milling on my gf's kitchen cart done.









I have a bit of hand work still to do one the wider boards on the left so I can get them flat and stable, but it was nice to make a little saw dust again!

Here's a rendering of the final cart:









The design is borrowed from Paul Anthony's "Home Storage Projects" but simplified a bit to make it more contemporary. She wanted to paint it, so it's going to be poplar. I fought the good fight to make it out of oak, maple, walnut, (really anything that didn't need painted) but it was all for not… I'm still holding out the top will be solid maple or walnut, if not now… someday.
Cheers!


----------



## jmartel

I don't think the wood is moving the leg up, I think the other pieces are probably moving and warping it a bit so that the leg lifts.


----------



## CL810

To make the miter cuts smooth and consistent on my last build I thought I'd share the shooting board that we used in the class. I didn't make it and I don't have a satisfactory answer to the question "how do you make the 45 angle dead on 45?" But nevertheless, here it is.










It works very well.


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## JADobson

Jmart, that would make more sense. Clayton after I flattened the top it warped a little and I didn't bother flattening it over again because it was negligible, and it seems to have stayed there.

I know I can't get too worried about wood movement in this thing as it is construction grade lumber, I just thought it was weird that the legs seemed to be moving. Anyway, its raining today so its sitting perfectly. We'll see what happens when our dry cold winter comes to Canada. I may have a new post called firewood for sale.


----------



## camps764

I'd place my bet on the top moving as well, when it dries out it curls up a little and exacerbates the twist that's already there. Lifts the leg off the floor a little.

Or, it twists the other direction and pushes one or more of the legs further down at the opposite corner


----------



## BigRedKnothead

James- Ya wood doesn't really move long grain(length of the leg), more so cross grain. Probably either the top or the aprons flexing. I'd give the table a year or so and then trim a leg if needed.

Jason- looking forward to your kitchen cart build.


----------



## CFrye

WOW










Friend shared this with me on FaceBook. Thought I'd pass along the wonder.


----------



## COMO

Thats an awesome idea.  It is one if the best uses of live edge I have seen. I am about to start my first furniture build this week. Just having to finish up the jointer I purchased off craigslist and away we go.

Red I saw you liked the book Hybrid Woodworking. Is it worth buying? I am just venturing into furniture building and would like to take a hybrid approach. Been thinking of buying that book for awhile just haven't pulled the trigger.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Candy- I saw that too. What an awesome idea.

Como- Ya, I think anyone interested in the hybrid approach would benefit from *Hybrid Woodworking*. Especially if your just starting out. Like I said, I wish I could have read that book 5 years ago. I learned a lot of that stuff the hard way.

I should note that I lean more toward the hand tool approach than Marc does. However, as note notes in the book, there's nothing wrong with that if you just enjoy hand tools.

One more thing, I really like minwax aerosol satin poly for little projects like this. I know it's not great for the environment and all, but it works great. They even have a fan-style nozzle. 
I like wipe-on poly too, but I get such a smooth finish this way. Just sayin.


----------



## Pezking7p

Red, don't believe they use cfc in cans anymore so it's all good.

Thanks for posting the live edge pic. Wifey saw it and now she wants THAT.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

State de shop. Got an hour in before work to glue up the tabouret.


----------



## Pezking7p

It's beaurifur. Whenever I just have an hour I always seem to be more productive.


----------



## Buckethead

Wow, Candy. Amazing piece.


----------



## byerbyer

Nice find, Candy. Beautiful piece.

Well, I tired to make a little progress on my kitchen cart this weekend, but the motor on the ol' Delta gave her up…










Gotta decide between a new motor for the Delta or a new lunchbox planer… Sadly replacing the motor is more than the original price of the planer.

Hope everyone had a safe and happy happy holiday weekend.
Cheers


----------



## Pezking7p

Jason, maybe there is a cheaper replacement from McMaster or grainger? Honestly though I have the same planer and it sucks. I think any newer lunchbox would be nicer. I've seen quite a few dw735's on craigslist for 300ish if you can wait.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Bum luck Jason. There's lunchbox planers on CL around here all the time if your lookin for a cheap solution.

I regret passing up on a $500 Grizzly 15" planer last year. At the time I was thinking I'd rather save for a helical head planer. Later I realized helical head planers are priced as such that you be better off buying new (knife) planer, and adding the helical upgrade kit. Go fig? That brings me back to plan A of just buying used and upgrading to helical heads later down the road.


----------



## Pezking7p

Red, Currently there is a 15" jet for $750 (who could easily be talked down to $650) and a 15" PM for $850, who could also be talked down.

I wish I could buy one right now, because I hate my planer. I've been kind of looking for a deal on a DW735, but haven't pulled the trigger yet. Anyone have any idea how much quieter the floor-standing planers are?


----------



## b2rtch

FYI: I put a Shelix head on my Powermatic jointer= I love it.
I put a Shelix head on my Rigid planer= I am disappointed.
On the jointer I have no tear out, on the planer I get tear out.
The head on the planer has less cutter by revolution than on the jointer , I believe that's the main difference.
Also both leave very small ridges.
The head on the planer seems to require more power from the motor than the original knives, that might explain why Byrd Tools limited the number of cutters on the head.


----------



## byerbyer

The same planer can be had on CL for less than a new motor for mine, so I'm either going to go that route or upgrade to new one. Eyeing the Steel City 40300HC from Highland Woodworking… It's been favorably reviewed by all accounts that I've come across (other than coming heavily greased/oiled.)










The body looks very similar to the Ridgid 13" model.


----------



## jmartel

Byer, that body looks exactly the same as my Rigid 13" that I had. I killed 2 of those planers in 2 weeks. Then I got my 735 and haven't looked back.


----------



## b2rtch

"I killed 2 of those planers in 2 weeks" 
How did you so that?
I have one for several years and I am not especally gentel with it and and it works like a champ


----------



## jmartel

First one lasted about 12 days and then it started sounding like a bunch of bolts rattling in a coffee can. Took it back and exchanged it for the only other one at HD. That one I set up, put one board through, and the fan started eating the inside of the case. Took it back, got my money back and got the Dewalt on Amazon instead. I gave Rigid a second chance and it was worse than the first one so I'll never recommend that planer to anyone.


----------



## BTimmons

This is one of my favorite threads to lurk on, but no posts in three days? Come on folks, don't let it die!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Sorry Brian. Been busy at work. Have not had any furniture to post lately either. Been stuck with a couple of kitchen cabinets I'm working on. I don't count those as furniture.


----------



## ShaneA

Who has hvlp experience? I am thinking about a unit, not sure if there is value in the HF/Rockler units…or if I should just stepup to the Earlex 5500. Are they easy to use? I got lots of questions.


----------



## ShaneA

Duplicate.


----------



## ShaneA

The webz ate my post!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Shane - my hvlp is a system that was pieced together after a friend gave me a 4 stage turbine with no gun. Have a few guns now. But from what I have read and comments from others, the Earlex 5500 is a nice system. One thing I came to realize is that the true hvlp equipment is a lot more expensive than the conversion guns and large compressors. I got my system before conversion guns were available, but if they had been at the time I think I might have gone that route for cost reasons. I have both now, and get really good results with the conversion gun for most finishing, but reserve the true turbine system for finishes that are most affected by water condensation that can get into the conversion gun system (shellac, laquer, etc.). I use the conversion gun for water base poly, spray dyes, etc.

That said, if you have a fairly large compressor, consider the conversion gun. They are inexpensive and really can spray nice finishes.


----------



## ShaneA

I just have a Porter Cable pancake jobber. I was under the impression that wouldn't be big enough. I am working on a set of kitchen cabinets and wondering what in the heck I am going to use for the top coat, and how I will apply it.

Once dialed in, how easy are they to achieve a competent finish? I am darn near a finishing illiterate. From what I have gathered the teflon cup on the Earlex is a nice feature for cleaning. What needle size is needed for lacquer or waterborne finishes. Looks like the Earlex only comes w/ a 2.0 needle.


----------



## ToddJB

Shane, I have the HF set up. And I get good results with paint when I get the consistency correct. I have not tried finish yet. I have a 30 gallon craftsman single stage oil less from CL and it does great.

In Charles Neil's online finishing videos he personally uses the HF on constantly. Seemingly more than the Earlex or Appolo.

One thing, which I've not done yet, but supposedly makes a big difference is to get all high flow connectors instead of the regular connectors. So you get the High Volume in HVLP.


----------



## ShaneA

How is cleaning the HF unit Todd? I have read a couple of places that after several uses it becomes difficult to get "clean".


----------



## ToddJB

I clean it after every use. I don't think its bad. Its the exact same design as a few other more extensive ones out there. I just made sure when I got it I tore it totally apart and cleaned it out super well.


----------



## CL810

Wood's gonna do what wood is gonna do. Perfectly flat/square piece of walnut (sitiiting in rack for 2 years) after rip cut: 1/2" cup and 1/4" bow. Go figure.


----------



## chrisstef

I did my cabinets with the hf hvlp. It didnt really care for the thick primer but by the time i got to the top coat using BM advanced thinned with water it worked very well. Cleaning it wasnt too bad. Maybe a half dozen pieces or so. If youre gonna use an oil primer get a couple extra cups from rockler. I hear they fit the HF version.


----------



## WhoMe

Shane, I have the Rockler unit. I took a look at the HF unit after getting the Rockler unit and they are the same. Only the stickers and that the HF unit comes with a additional needle and seat. 
In use, I have sprayed a bunch of General Finishes including the Enduro-var and High Performance. I also have sprayed the GF dye and Zinnser seal coat shellac. 
For what I use it for - essentially clear finishes - I like it. the shellac and sye were sprayed full strength and worked really well. As for the GF Enduro and Hi-Perf, I thinned them about 5% and they sprayed really nicely. I am using the larger needle and seat and open the gun about 1 1/2 to 2 turns at most and I get a really nice finish. I also spray everything I can horizontally so I don't get any runs. I tend to overspray the layer a little thick at times.

If you plan only to spray clear finishes, shellac and waterbased stains and dyes, it is a nice gun for the price. I would imagine the thinner oil based stuff would spray well too. Anything else, you are better off with the Earlex. It just has more poop behind it to spray any thicker stuff. 
The key is to CLEAN your gun as soon as you are finished.

As for any negatives, I only have 2 so far after spraying more than 4 quarts on about 8 projects. 
1. long term spraying with WB polys, I found that the gun tip started to get some dried finish on it. I only had this once so I don't know if that had to do with the user or the finish/gun.
2. longer term use, the air going through the turbine starts to get warm and you can feel it in the hose closer to the gun. I did not see any difference in the finish laying down so I cannot say if that actually affected the finish but I would imagine warmer air makes the finish dryer coming out of the gun (or the volatiles evaporate quicker).

Other than that, I find that it is a nice gun to work with for what i need.


----------



## john2005

SO those DTs I had started a month ago?... Well finally got them done. Turned out better than I had expected. Still a few gaps on close inspection, but getting better.


----------



## Pezking7p

Booster chairs? I'm confuzzled.


----------



## ToddJB

I don't know what it is either, but it's really pretty.


----------



## LoriF

You guys are joking right? Booster chair is placed on kitchen chair to raise child up to eat at a kitchen table, plastic boosters are common in restaurants and fast food places.

These are a very pretty and well-made too.


----------



## byerbyer

Slick looking booster seats John.

I called in a favor from a family friend and took a little road trip to finish planing.
















I knocked out the mortises for the carriage in the afternoon and probably lost 10 pounds sweating! 








That's it until next weekend. Cheers!


----------



## john2005

Todd! For cereal! You need one of these for your boy. Dan, don't know if you have kids but if ya do…. The design I borrowed from LJ DanK. They are a 3" booster seat one way, a 5" booster the other. BUT, they are also a 3" step stool, a 5" step stool, a 10" step stool and a 12" step stool depending on how it is oriented. They will hold a full sized adult (as opposed to a partially sized one). In fact I put my 175 up on it and hopped a bit just to see. Aaand like Lori said, the little dude gets to sit at the big table with the big people.


----------



## Pezking7p

Lol, no kids yet hence my confusion. I looked at them for a log Tim this morning.

Nice work, Jason. Always helps to have friends who will help!


----------



## ToddJB

Sorry, it was sleepless baby night, brain hadn't started functioning yet. They really are awesome.

Speaking of sleepless baby nights, how's that new arrival doing, John?


----------



## john2005

He's doing ok, other then on day 3 we got hit with "the plage". Somehow I have dodged it so far (knock on wood) but the 2 yr old brought it home and shared with mama and the new guy. They've had it for about almost 2 weeks now. Kinds sucks that way. Little dude just wants to be held allllllll the time. He will sleep by himself at night though oddly enough. 
Your little gal mellow out yet or was she the cause of your sleepless night?


----------



## jmartel

I know the feeling, John. My cat wants to be held all the time. I'm sure that's the same thing, right?


----------



## ToddJB

Jmart, exactly the same. John, she was the cause, but she is slowly one the up swing. Sorry about the sickness. Very few things are worse than a sick infant.


----------



## john2005

> I know the feeling, John. My cat wants to be held all the time. I m sure that s the same thing, right?
> 
> - jmartel


Exactly…

Gad to hear she getting better Todd


----------



## jmartel

Well I will be starting up a build for a Blanket/Hope chest soon as a wedding gift to a friend of mine. Wedding is in mid-september so I gotta get my ass moving on it soon.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I appreciated WhoMe's input on the hvlp sprayers. I've been kicking around getting an Earlex. I prefer poly over lacquer. I know poly is a mess to spray, but you can't win 'em all. When I build my kitchen cabinets, I will find a way to spray poly. Imo it's a lot more durable than lacquer.

Nice work on the booster seat John. DTs are coming along nicely.

Wedding gift delivered.

-
I'm so tired I might fall out of my booster seat.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Cool booster seat John. Probably gonna have to borrow that from you and DanK as my daughter is due in about 4 months.

Nice work on the table Red.

So I'm having a little battle with my lumberman. Went in to get some 5/4 American cherry that I requested last week. This is what I saw in his office.










He won't sell it to me. That's what I get for whipping him on the golf course!
Sorry about the sideways picture.


----------



## jmartel

Steal it when he's not looking.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thought about that, but we are in negotiations right now. He said he might have a couple more. I don't see that in American cherry very often around this area.

He's a wood hoarder, but I'll get that board from him sooner or later!


----------



## john2005

Hey Red, I would seriously look at spraying lacquer instead of poly. Nobody walks on cabinets so the durability thing isn't as big of an issue. Working in a body shop we have all kinds of hvlp guns. Nice ones too. 3-600 dollar ones. I cannot get any of them to lay down poly like I can lacquer. Add in you clean up time and oils aren't even in the hunt. 
My interior doors are sprayed with lacquer. 3 coats both sides. Layed all coats, both sides in about an hour and a half on 4 doors. Last thing I sprayed poly on was actually a cabinet. Just one base unit. 2 coats. Thinned way back to get it to dry quick. Spray time was almost the same, but clean up was ridiculous. Keep in mind I have the luxuries of things like a gun washer. The nail in the "John will never spray poly again" coffin was the spray booth stunk like oil for all of the next day and while I was spraying in the center of the booth, there was overspray on the walls. Not a big deal for a spray booth as it is coated with a film that is water soluble so cleaning it off is a breeze. But if that was my shop? That would suck. For what it's worth, I sprayed those doors 4years ago and they still look like they did the day I brought them home. Even the one to the boys bedroom. 
Whatever any of that is worth to you I don't know, but there it is. I still use poly but only for high wear items, like booster seats for example. Difference is I wipe it on. Thin it 30/60 spirits/poly and give it 4-5 coats. Not my favorite so I don't use it much but there you have it


----------



## cdaniels

hey bro, nice wood um…..


----------



## Pezking7p

You guys are making me scared to spray. I was planning to spray my cabinets with paint. Don't really care if it's water based or solvent based. Any of you guys sprayed paint?


----------



## byerbyer

Dan,
I sprayed some latex on my crib project using a gravity feed hvlp gun (I think it was a Porter Cable) with pretty good results. I borrowed if from work (cabinet shop), they use it to spray tinted pre-cat lacquer. I'm a novice sprayer at best, but I had good results without any add-on's. Hope that's encouraging.
Cheers!


----------



## ToddJB

Pez, I painted my lathe with an HVLP using Enamel (oil) paint. Gun did fine when I thinned it correctly- too thick won't shoot, too thin the vertical surfaces ran. Once I got it dialed in, it did great. Very happy with the end results and the learning curve.


----------



## Pezking7p

I'm thinking the oil based will be better, I guess. Easier to thin with no emulsion to break.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

John- I probably should give some more thought to lacquer. I admit some of my negative feelings towards lacquer come from cheap furniture and cabinets where they probably sprayed one coat. Whether its poly or Lac, I would spray it outside of my shop.

Pez- worry about spraying paint. I have a graco magnum airless sprayer from the borg and I have sprayed latex on furniture and cabinets with no problem. I just use a smaller tip. I just buy the the best latex I can find. My painter friends claim the newer latex paints are just as tough as oil based.


----------



## john2005

Don't fret it too much Pez. Paint sprays nice. With paint it just falls back to your prep, but with a clear finish, everything shows, thus the desire for less brush strokes etc. I have sprayed a dresser and my hunting rifle, both with our BASF paint and they both came out pretty cool. The dresser you se some flaws, but it's from poor prep, not anything in the spray process.

I see it this way. Lac= easy, smooth baby butt style finish with little frustration. Poly=more time screwing with stuff to get it right, making wiping faster. But that's not to say somebody else's style isn't going to e way better than mine.


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## Iguana

@Red:

While I've sprayed a lot more poly than lacquer, I've found the poly easier. Waterborne, not oil base. Oil base is a big mess. The WB poly has a longer flash time than lacquer which gives it more of a chance to level out. The risk is spraying too thick a coat which can trap moisture and create a blue/purple tint until the moisture eventually works its way out.

@Pez:

Consider spraying a tinted lacquer or WB poly instead of latex/acrylic paint. You can get it in any color and sheen you want. The big upside is that it is formulated for spraying and you don't have to bother with experimenting to get the right thinning ratio to work with your gun.

I sprayed latex on a large set of cabinets and it turned out well. But it was a lot messier than a tinted lacquer. Also a much longer wait between coats.


----------



## WhoMe

Just one more thought on the HVLP sprayers. The Rockler and equivalent Harbor Freight models will NOT spray latex worth a darn. They are just not powerful enough to do the job. They are great for thin finishes like polyurethane, shellac, dyes and thin stains. 
If I were to spray latex, I would be looking at a dedicated gun like what Red used or at the HPLV level, it would probably be at a minimum of the Earlex 5500.

I have not sprayed oil based finishes yet. Only WB stuff and shellac. Generally clean up is a breeze with the WB stuff and a bit more involved for the shellac since it takes denatured alcohol for cleaning.

I bought a spare mixing cup for my sprayer and have it half filled with water so that when I am done spraying finish, I swap the finish cup for the water cup, walk out to my driveway, open up the needle about 6-7 more turns and spray water for a bit. Then I take the gun to the sink and clean up the rest of it during dis-assembly. 
When reassembling, i put a couple of drops of 3in1 iol on the needle before putting it back in the gun.

Bottom line, spraying WB finishes is not that hard at all.


----------



## WhoMe

Oh, forgot, Im currently working on some curly maple for a dresser and am in the process of flattening some panel glue ups. What do you guys use for tricky grain regarding hand planes? Helpful hints will be greatly appreciated. 
Unfortunately, I don't have access to a drum sander… which would solve my problems.


----------



## JayT

One of these days, I need to invest in an HVLP and try spraying.



> What do you guys use for tricky grain regarding hand planes? Helpful hints will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> - WhoMe


Smoothing plane with a back bevel on the iron, high angle smoother, or a scraper. Sometimes I try one and it doesn't work well, so switch to another that does better.

Oh, and make sure whatever you use is sharp! I'll generally touch up a plane before using if I suspect the grain will be a problem.


----------



## Pezking7p

Low angle works well in some instances. My figured maple really liked the la planes.

Mark, Thanks! You've opened up a whole new world of finishing to me. I'm going to do my cabinets in lacquer. Will sherwin Williams tint it for me? Any other places that will tint it and can mix multiple cans to the same tint?


----------



## lateralus819

> Oh, forgot, Im currently working on some curly maple for a dresser and am in the process of flattening some panel glue ups. What do you guys use for tricky grain regarding hand planes? Helpful hints will be greatly appreciated.
> Unfortunately, I don t have access to a drum sander… which would solve my problems.
> 
> - WhoMe


Try getting your iron as sharp as possible within your means. I used to do a back bevel before i knew what "sharp" was. It's very effective. Light cuts help. If all else fails, lightly moisten the surface (this works great with a power planer)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks for all the spraying info fellers. I mentioned before how much I like the way aerosol poly sprays and dries. There have been many times I have brushed or wiped several coats of poly (sanding between) to get a buildup, then I switch to aerosol for that final coat or two. Works pretty well. I've even done that with decent sized pieces of furniture.

Anyway, I've got to come up with a better solution….and that will mean getting out of my comfort zone- whether it's water-based poly, or whatever. I'm told earlex hvlps can handle oil-based poly….maybe that's the next step;-)

Btw, here's a pretty cool blog by LJ gildedrain:
http://lumberjocks.com/gildedrain/blog/41703


----------



## Iguana

Dan,

The people that sell you the lacquer should be able to tint it for you - assuming your aren't buying the lacquer from a general woodworking store like Rockler, Woodcraft, etc. I'm pretty sure that if you buy the lacquer from SW they will be able to tint it to any color in their line. It is just like buying paint - they'll have 2 or 3 different bases, and select the appropriate one based on the color you pick.

Like paint, there can be small variation in hue between cans. That's just the tolerances in the machines that spit out the colorants. Or so they tell me - I've never been able to see the difference from one can to the next.


----------



## Iguana

WhoMe - Beg, borrow or steal someone else's sander if you don't have one of your own


----------



## ShaneA

Alright spraying gurus, I picked up the HF HVLP kit today. Since Sherwin Williams is having the 40% off paints/stains sales I stopped in there. Told the guy I was needing to put a top coat on a set a cabinets, he recommended their satin varnish. Supposedly durable, but the dry time seems long to me. Plus I haven't heard of spraying varnish nearly as much as lacquer. But WTF do I know? Left w/a gallon.

Should I need to thin it? Or just take it back and get a lacquer or Minwax polyurethane? It's painful not being in the know.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

No guru here, but I'll try to help. The Sherwin varnish shouldn't be much different than minwax poly. I'd be surprised if you can spray in an hvlp it without thinning it. I've thinned poly as much as 1 part min spirits to 3 parts poly and sprayed it with no problems.

Only thing is, with satin be sure your mixing it thoroughly and uniformly. That stuff and the bottom of the can is the stuff that makes it satin/flat looking. If you don't mix that stuff up evenly you will end up with varied sheens.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Shane - I'll take a crack at this but I hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong.
Varnish is a generic term that I believe is normally associated with an alkyd resin (usually tree resin) based finish. These are blended with other product as carriers, binders, and driers. Poly's are made in basically the same way but use synthetic polymer resins. Sometimes the term varnish is used interchangeably. I believe poly's are a little more durable.
Read the thinning instructions on the can. Both oil based poly's and alkyd resin "varnish" are thinned with oil based thinners like mineral spirits or naphtha. I'm sure what you got could be sprayed. Usually it would have instructions for using a viscosity cup to get you in the ballpark. If not, the store you got it from should be able to help you.


----------



## jmartel

It's my understanding that Poly is a type of Varnish. Varnish just refers to the general category.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Agreed. It is used interchangeably, as some call poly a varnish, but you can't call tung oil a poly.


----------



## ShaneA

Waterborne, oil based, pre cat, post cat, there are just so many effing terms that I have no real idea what they mean. I really am lacking on the ol' finishing skillz. Thanks for the input.


----------



## ShaneA

Duplicate


----------



## Hammerthumb

Shane - just make sure you use the recommended thinner as a water based product cannot be thinned with an oil based thinner, or the other way around.


----------



## WhoMe

Shane, your HF unit should have come with a viscosity cup. Use that to determine if your finish needs thinning. My Rockler unit (clone of the HF) had one and all the instructions said that if the cup empties between 8 and 20 seconds, it is OK to spray with the unit. So far, I have found that getting close to the 20 second time does require a little thinning to make things spray better. In the case of my gun, I use the larger needle and thinning the GF High Performance poly about 3%, I get a nice spray at about 1 1/2 turns open (from full close) on the gun. And I do 2-3 passes at about 12+ inches from the item to be sprayed. I have also thinned the Enduro var about 4% with similar results.

I have never sprayed oil based media but I live in Orange County, CA where almost all oil based stuff is banned by the Air Quality Management District because of the VOCs.

I would also recommend using a metal chisel to mark the back of the adjustment screw so that you can keep track of the screw adjustment so that when you find something that works, you can return to that setting as needed. I found that helped a lot.

Thanks all on the curly maple hints. Ill have to try the Plane stuff on scrap but my very positive experience with a drum sander at a demonstration will most likely be the ticket. Gotta find a local place that I can take my panels to and have it done that way.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Shane- so this means you've already made all your kitchen cabinets? No pics for us or anything? Ice cold.


----------



## ShaneA

No I have milled most the lumber, and cut the ply pieces for the base cabinets. I have one prototype, but I have not built the drawer parts yet. The first one is a freestanding cab that will go where the portable dishwasher went. I will install a built-in. The cabs will be flat panel shaker type cab. I used solid 1/4" for the first prototype. But I bought veneered mdf for the rest. The ply is quite a bit lighter, in color, than my rails/styles. May have to see if I need to stain it some to darken it, or just roll with it. Yet to be determined.

I have 8' ceilings w/a soffit above the existing cabinets. I plan on removing that and going w/taller cabs, somewhere in the 42" range. Once I know the soffit is removable, I will figure the exact height for the uppers based on the variables. Got a long way to go. But, coming along nicely. There are just a lot of details yet. I will still have to build all the cabs, tile the floors, get granite, tile the backsplash, do plumbing for new sink/dishwasher. I could be on the long road to crazy for a while.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Cool man. I'd like to do the same project in a few years. I plan to remove our soffit too.

Hope the wife can keep her eye on the prize;-)


----------



## chrisstef

Good luck Shane. Figure 8 months lol. At least itll get ya in the shop.


----------



## ShaneA

Lots of shop time. It is going to take a hot minute. I am already had the thought that I should have bought a set. I am already in about $950. But I have all the hardware, ply, finish, and hopefully most everything thing else I need just to make the cabinets. Still need lots o stuff to complete the kitchen remodel part. Oh, the humanity.


----------



## Pezking7p

Starting cabinets maybe next weekend if I'm suuuper lucky tonight/tomorrow on doing shop stuff and finish my bench. Once cabinets are done, then it's kitchen remodel time. We should race, Shane.

Poly is shorthand for polymer, which is kind of shorthand for plastic. Poly can refer to polyurethane, polyacrylic, polyalkyd, etc etc. Even polyurethane is just a category of polymer, and doesn't denote the specific properties of a finish. In reality, most finishes are a blend of many chemicals, and you can't trust that one brand is the same as another. Hell, my company makes silicone for one specific purpose (non-stick) and we probably have 1000 different formulations of silicone. And they are all different.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^All I know is Flexner puts Varnish and Polyeurethane in the same category….so I go with it;-)

Shane- They're still gonna be better that the cabinets you would have bought. Plus, if kiddos break something etc….it will be easy for you to match and repair.


----------



## DanKrager

I'm late to the party after lounging with grandkids this week. 
BRK, I spray Deft brushing lacquer exclusively. It's cheap and readily available here, and it is intended for use on heavy traffic floors. Thinned about 10%, it produces the nicest deep finishes in two coats, usually the first is a sealer, sanded to 320. It's highly water and wear resistant, not proof.
I prefer not to tint lacquer (or any other top coat) because that renders it nearly unserviceable should damage repair be required. It's almost impossible to match after the fact, even if you have left overs from the original spray job. Just my experience.

I've spray painted a lot of items, and I really like Pratt and Lamberts high end oil paints. The item number that could be thinned with lacquer thinner is discontinued now (thanks EPA) but two coats of that made a finish that rivaled the new fangled armor of Knights of the Round Table. The new stuff can be thinned with acetone and that makes subsequent coats bond chemically with the previous coats for a similar but not quite as strong a finish.

John, nice job on those booster seats! I had a chance to examine my 16 year old models this week and with a coat of oil (like original) they looked like new! You've made some great heirlooms! 
Carry on!
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^There you go Shane. If your worried about the varnish, pick up some deft lacquer.

I know of another woodworker who swears by deft. I admit, his finishes look like glass. However, if I switch to laquer, I'll have to do it outside. The only time my wife has complained about shop odors is when I was using lacquer.


----------



## RPhillips

wrong forum… lol


----------



## Pezking7p

That jewelry/lingerie dresser is outstanding. So complicated.


----------



## jmartel

I spray Deft on some of my smaller items like boxes and things. Anything that may see abuse I put Arm-R-Seal on now.


----------



## Pezking7p

So when you guys spray cabinets, how do you hold the face frames or doors while you spray them? How do you maintain a wet edge to spray both sides at once? Do you need to maintain a wet edge with lacquer? What if it's catalyzed lacquer?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well, I intend to use prefinished ply for the insides. If so, you'd need to mask off the insides, like this:









Easier to do in the shop, and when the cabinets aren't installed.


----------



## ShaneA

I will probably just brush the clear coat for the face frames before the installation. Spray the doors while lying flat, one side at a time. That's the preliminary plan at least.


----------



## RPhillips

Wow Red, that paint job really aged you. lol

..or is that just overspray?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nah, just pics from the web;-)

+1 on spraying doors while they're flat.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

From Doucette and Wolfe. 23"+ cherry. I covet.


----------



## jmartel

Now if that was Walnut, then we'd be talking. Don't get me wrong, I love cherry, but there's a reason why I'm doing every piece of furniture on my main floor in Walnut and not cherry.


----------



## CL810

That Douchette site is very interesting; especially the videos.


----------



## Pezking7p

That smug bastard can cut some dovetails. Watching the doucette and wolfe videos makes me want to make dovetailed case furniture.


----------



## Sunstealer73

I hope y'all don't mind me joining in. I just finished my first piece of real furniture in a long time. My dad decided to stop doing woodworking and gave me his planer, joiner, and several nice pieces of old chestnut. I used the really rough pieces of chestnut to build some picture frames for him and other members of the family. I saved the wider and straighter boards for myself though. Here's the table I just finished:



Only my second time doing mortise and tenon joinery. Also my first time using anything other than polyurethane varnish. It isn't at the level of some of the stuff I've seen in this thread, but I'm pretty proud of it.

I am hoping to use the remainder along with some ambrosia maple to do a frame-and-panel blanket chest next. I am thinking of the chestnut for the frame and maple for the panels. Kind of the old wormy wood with the new and a good contrast in colors.


----------



## jmartel

Watching this douchette video at the 1:21 mark. Is that the infamous Stanley #9 I see?


----------



## Pezking7p

Sunstealer, the table looks really nice. I like the colore a lot.

Jmart, I believe that is the LN copy of the No. 9, which they just discontinued if I'm not mistaken. That guy loves his LN planes.


----------



## CFrye

Jmart, that trestle table had some details I want to incorporate into a table I'm restoring. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## john2005

Thanks DanK for the kind words and better yet the idea.


----------



## Shoni

your Dinning table is great and small size. I like this.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sunstealer73- Welcome to out little furniture forum. Looks pretty darn good for your 2nd attempt at M&T joinery. Shoot the finish is very nice too.

Ya Andy, the Douchette and Wolfe site is bittersweet for me. I dig everything they do. That's exactly how I would build furniture if I could. Sometimes it's tough watching someone else live your dream….lol.


----------



## wormil

While I was out of town my wife remodeled the living room and I get to build furniture again! A console table and two end tables at least, most likely from walnut. Just need to find or design something I like. One end table will also hold Blurays and video games + controllers, the other end table will have some sort of corral for remotes. The designs will be different but in the same style … whatever that turns out to be. I might try to incorporate some bent laminations, been wanting to do that for a long time. I also floated the idea of building a mid-century modern couch and she liked the idea. I'm pretty stoked.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Good to hear Rick. We haven't had much bent lamination stuff posted here.

Enjoy the planning/seeking inspiration phase. I always rush that. I just want to get building


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'm sure most of you saw LJ Steve Erwin finished blog and project I referenced earlier.



His blog and project writeup was really great. As I noted to Steve, I can totally relate in so many ways. From getting all-consumed with a project, to the bittersweet finish, to nitpicking your work…..even though it's pretty fine work to 99% of folks.

I'm not getting as much shop time as I'd like this year, but I'm rolling with the punches. Recently I felt that "what now?" lull after completing my joinery bench. It's a good time to finish up some small things and organize the shop.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Thanks for bringing that to our attention Red. I missed that along the way, somehow ;-(


----------



## WhoMe

For those who have used older Stanley planes, I have a question. In Smoothing out some curly maple and poplar panels, I noticed that sometimes, the plane would leave darker "skid marks" on the wood after a smoothing pass. It seemed like it was mostly on the rougher surfaces but sometimes it was on a smooth surface.

The only thing I can think of is that the cast iron sole is leaving some "skid marks" or slight discoloration on the wood.

Now, I am not waxing the sole prior to doing the smoothing so the sole is essentially raw cast iron on wood.

Anyone experience this? Any recommendations on what I am doing wrong? I do notice after a good workout, the sole is warmer from the friction….

Here is a shot with some cm shavings and the requisite foot in sandal…lol








And I guess I have my sharpening methods ok because I can smooth curly maple without tear out on a standard #3, #4 or #4 1/2.


----------



## August

> Notches? We don t need no stinkin notches.
> 
> hehe… that had me laughing pretty good. Thanks guys. I m sure it will make a decent little wedding gift.
> 
> I really liked working with ebony. These exotics are growing on me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Red I think your cheating men 
I think your from the outer space your knowledge is priceless
I still haven't finish reading all the reply but this is a very nice blog


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks August. I've still got a lot to learn. I've gained more knowledge from this forum than I've given.

Who- I've had some issue with planes leaving a mark. In my case I think it was from residue oil/rust preventer. Will some swipes with a fine sandpaper remove them?


----------



## WhoMe

Red, I'm sure a couple swipes with sand paper will clean them up. Even a second pass will clean up the initial marks. 
I just thought it was weird to see the marks in the first place.

So, I have all 5 of my panels glued up and semi smooth. now to find a drum sander. then it will be machining to size, machining slots for sliding dovetails and the carcass dovetails. I guess I should do a blog at some point. Unfortunately, the first two panels were not done with clamping cauls so they will seed some extra flattening. Good thing they are made of poplar, wont be seen and are structural. Luckily all the curly maple panels came out mostly flat where a drum sander will take care of them easily.


----------



## CL810

Been watching Douchette & Wolfe videos. The secretary desk is an unbelievable build. The mitered mortise and tenon joints (don't know what else to call them) are magician tricks. Geez, how would you like to work in that shop as an apprentice?


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, I used mitred M & T for my grandsons toy/blanket chest. Took a bit of time since the panel was a floating panel.


----------



## gildedrain

> Recently I felt that "what now?" lull after completing my joinery bench. It s a good time to finish up some small things and organize the shop.


That sounds about right. I've got a list of shop improvements I might get started on. Things that would have been nice to have during that dresser project. I'm considering a Moxon vise, nicer miter and donkey-ear attachments for my shooting board, and I should probably check to see if my bench if flat again. All things I can do after my wife and son go to sleep.

I really can't stop myself from thinking about the next project, though… there's a little devil on my shoulder and he says he wants a Crokinole board.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Ok Steve, I totally had to google "Crokinole board". Looks like fun though.

I think we're cut from the same cloth man. I'm always thinking about what I want to build next. I spend my down time at work or hotels researching and planning. I might have issues. Speaking of "next"....I'm rounding up enough white oak to build some Adirondacks and various outdoor furniture. woohoo.

Other news, I have no idea how I missed Gary Rogowski joining us on LJs. That dude is the shizzle. Great blog series here: http://lumberjocks.com/GaryRogowski/blog/41476

Also he posted his stool. I've been planning on attempting one ever since I saw the article in FWW.


----------



## gildedrain

White oak for outdoor furniture? Is that kosher? I usually only hear about teak, cypress, cedar or exotics for outdoor use…

// goes and looks it up //

I guess it's better than most... good to know

Speaking of looking things up… if anyone else is interested in Crokinole boards, the Hilinski Brothers make some of the world's best custom boards, and were kind enough to share how they build them.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"White oak for outdoor furniture?"

Yup! If it's good enough for the USS Constitution….it's good enough for my back deck;-)

It just gets back to availability Steve. I noticed you get some of your lumber from Dunham hardwoods (near me). I go there sometimes, but I've got small mills where I can get white oak for $1.50-2 a bd/ft. Every other option would cost much more in these parts.

I'm on the hunt for ideas and plans. I like Marc Spagawuhitz G&G inspired:









but there's no way I'm using ebony plugs on outdoor furniture.


----------



## lateralus819

I can't get enough of Matts videos (Doucette and wolfe).

The guy is like a machine. I almost wonder if he has any fun with it? Being as skilled as he is.


----------



## gildedrain

$1.50-2.00 per board foot… wow. Congrats 

I've watched all the Doucette & Wolfe videos. My only complaint is the absence of a time scale. With edits it looks like they whip that furniture together in a few hours. Just another day in the shop. I dug around their website a bit to find their production turnaround time for new orders. 16 weeks to 24 months depending on what's in the queue. Sounds about right.

The thing I found most amazing in those videos is the other partially completely projects sitting in the background while he's working on something completely different. It took all of my focus to make ONE THING, and those two are working on multiple museum-quality pieces at once. They're my heroes.


----------



## CL810

Red check out Michael Fortune's chair in FWW. I like it.


----------



## lateralus819

I agree Steve. I've noticed the multiple projects going on too.

I wonder if they do it to take a break once in a while.

Seems like they never have a shortage of work though. I guess when you're one of the best in the world you're desirable.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Doucette and Wolfe vids are drool worthy. Of course they are edited for effect. But hey, every once in a while I have some cool shots from my shop that make me look like I know what I'm doing….and those are the ones I post;-)

Clayton- i did see that Michael Fortune Adirondack:









It is a nice design, but I'm looking to go a little more rustic.

I got some inspiration from thewoodwhisperer.com with this "Not so rustic table" 








Of course Marc has a great video here. 
-
I intended to use 4/4 stock for the table top, but he's got me thinking about 6/4, or even 8/4. Made from white oak…it's gonna be heavy.

The only thing I don't like is the base. I don't understand a table that doesn't allow someone to sit at the ends while putting their legs under the table. One of my peccadilloes I guess.


----------



## john2005

^as the builder you can fix that. .


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I'll tweak it to my liking John. 








-
So I really laughed out loud when i saw this page in Rogoski's Joinery book. 








-
Ha, I blogged about my "great idea"... using ply as splines. Wasn't I the first?
http://lumberjocks.com/BigRedKnothead/blog/38806

Since I'm mostly self-taught, I can't tell you the times that I've thought I came up with "something new"....only to see it later in a book or magazine. It's all been done before I guess.

I'll just claim that great minds think alike.


----------



## john2005

Ok, that table has my attention! I dig it.

My afternoon? Here ya go. DTs ala BigRed guide, gang style


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Atta boy. I do the tails two at a time as well. Once I got a feel for the kerf width of my saw…..so I knew how to place the guide in respect to my knife line, I started busting snug DTs out. You will too.


----------



## gildedrain

I used a cheater block like that to guide my saw when I was cutting some dados by hand, but I never thought to use one for dovetails in that way. Is there a magnet embedded in there, too? 

I'm all for using cheater blocks when it's a super crucial cut and if I screw it up I have to build an entirely new leg (for example), but dovetails shouldn't be so intimidating. Stick your thumb out, press your saw plate against it and start cutting. Even if it doesn't look 100% perfect, it usually still functions 100% mechanically. Frank Klausz does all his dovetails by eye ... it's amazing, and has a character all its own. Most dovetails in the olden days weren't obsessed over like they are nowadays. Photos of old furniture show just how commonly gappy and sloppy and uncentered they were. I think magazines have tricked us into caring too much about super precise dovetails and we could all use a healthy dose of relax and stop being so hard on ourselves. 

That being said, I'm one to seek out fussy levels of precision, so I'm right there with ya. If you ever want to get comfortable cutting dovetails without the helper block, check out these two posts… they helped me out quite a bit:

Night of 100 Cuts

A Dovetail a Day (pdf)

and it probably wouldn't hurt to watch Rob Cosman's DVDs ... he's really skilled at teaching how to cut dovetails effectively and I learned a lot by watching his videos.


----------



## jmartel

Steve,

The dovetail guide is here:

https://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/page.asp?p=1458

There is a magnet on both sides that holds the saw flat against the side. It's very useful to have.


----------



## RPhillips

I need one of those DT guides!

...and the table too!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Steve- most of us learned about the dovetail guides from David Barron in this video:




-
I admit I was attracted to this method because I wanted better results…..even though I should just chill-ax. But the other benefit, which I desperately sought while hand cutting dovetails….was efficiently. The guide eliminates a whole lotta marking (unless your going all willy-nilly on the angles like Klausz). It also speeds up the sawing and the fitting.

Anyway,, I am decent at sawing freehand, but I still go back to the guide to knock at the tails at least.

Rob- The guides are pretty easy to make using the link Jmart provided. I picked up some rare earth magnets and raided the scrap bin.


----------



## jmartel

First dry fitup for the Blanket chest that will be given as a wedding present to a friend of mine.


----------



## wormil

re: white oak

Where I'm from there are sheds, corn cribs, tool cribs, and shanties built from white oak that are 100 years old and as strong as the day they were built. They are off the ground on rock foundations. My uncle just dismantled an old white oak building and was going to burn it for firewood. I told him that old greyed barnwood is worth more than several winters worth of firewood. He just looked at me skeptically.


----------



## byerbyer

Finally made it back into the shop today and knocked out the tenons and dry fit the carriage. It still lacks the divider in the upper drawer section, but that shouldn't take too much to finish up. 









I made my first hand cut dovetail in the upper blade of the carriage. They're not perfect but i think with a little fussing I'll get it flushed up with the front of the leg. If nothing else it's given me confidence to take a stab at DT drawers…









Side note: I came across some very nice rosewood for about $7/bdft and a Disston hand saw for $4 at a flea market. I think my father willnget the most out of the rosewood with his segmented turnings, but I'm planning on a coupke tool/saw handles at the least for myself. 

Sharp looking blanket chest jmart.


----------



## WhoMe

Thanks for bringing up all that cool stuff on the dovetails. I'm planning to do a chest of drawers with them in the carcass and half blinds in the drawers. With the links above, I will be planning to make me a couple of those guides.

The last of the panel glue ups.








Unfortunately, I didn't make the clamping cauls until AFTER I glued up the first 2 poplar panels. At least all the curly maple ones were glued with the cauls. The poplar ones are not going to show anyway…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

All kinds of strong work going on here. Nice job fellas.

Jmart- what kind of wood on the blanket chest?

RickM- Ya, love me some white oak (ha! look at my shop). I'm fortunate to have the availability I do here. It's challenging to work with hand tools, and the darn grain often swirls….but it more than makes up for its downsides.


----------



## jmartel

Red, it's the Alder that I picked up off of Craiglist for $1.50/bdft. Not very knotty, which is good since I don't care for lots of knots.

I think I am going to make the butterfly looking splines for the top though. Just need to decide between Walnut, ebonizing walnut, or using up some of the African Blackwood that I have leftover. I have enough clear Alder to make a top without using the splits, but I think I may use the splits anyway on this one. It's not staying with me, so it's a good chance to see it and do it in person. If I don't like it, I don't have to live with it.


----------



## DaddyZ

What you guys think so far, Supposed to be similar to the below


----------



## ShaneA

I am digging the inspiration piece. Looks like you are on your way.


----------



## jmartel

I could see making one of those, if either my wife or I drank at all that is. Looks like a good piece of inspiration.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Looking good Pat. Are the wine racks just a halved joint?


----------



## Pezking7p

Seen this really cool old…something in the I laws kitchen. Like a little chest with a 6"x9" cabinet and a drawer? Anyway the construction was really nice so I checked the drawer for dovetails and here is what I found:










As you can see, these are ugly. Old timers didn't care about fine dovetails.


----------



## DaddyZ

Yes the Rack itself is just half lapped.

Thanks Guys, Hopefully the owner will love it..


----------



## Pezking7p

To add something other than just my drive by dovetail pic from last night…

While back in Maine, I stopped in at Thos. Moser again yesterday. I have to say that while I find their casework pretty nice, I'm always struck by their more modern designs, especially for chairs/sofas. I love the bent laminated pieces and the whacky articulated chairs. But, I was struck again by fit/finish on some of the pieces. A 1/64th here, and a mismatched grain there. I guess even Moser can't afford to get everything 110% perfect.

Then I went to another bigger furniture place called Chilton (I don't know if this is national or not), it's one of those mission/amish places…most of the work was cherry and pretty standard mission designs. Holy cow was the grain selection and fit/finish ugly…sticky/out-of-square doors, nothing flush, wood looks like stuff you buy for $0.50/bd ft full of weird grain and mismatched colors. Still not cheap furniture.

I guess my point is, this hobby has ruined my ability to buy furniture. All I can see is flaws. I think it also highlights the difference between Nice Furniture, High End Furniture, and Museum Quality Furniture. lol.


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, did you get to Moody's diner?


----------



## Pezking7p

OF, I drove past it about 100 times, and I said "Hey this guy I know [insert awkward explanation of how I know you] says that place is great and we should eat there". Everyone in the car says "Moody's? Yah Moody's is famous and awesome, we should go there!!" Unfortunately, we didn't have any opportunity to eat there. I'm sure I'll get back, maybe at Christmas time I'll convince someone to go out to LN with me again and we'll eat there. In-Laws live about an hour fifteen from LN, 1 hr from Moody's.

Contractor is really pushing his 7:00 pm deadline to finish and get out of here.


----------



## jmartel

> To add something other than just my drive by dovetail pic from last night…
> 
> While back in Maine, I stopped in at Thos. Moser again yesterday. I have to say that while I find their casework pretty nice, I m always struck by their more modern designs, especially for chairs/sofas. I love the bent laminated pieces and the whacky articulated chairs. But, I was struck again by fit/finish on some of the pieces. A 1/64th here, and a mismatched grain there. I guess even Moser can t afford to get everything 110% perfect.
> 
> Then I went to another bigger furniture place called Chilton (I don t know if this is national or not), it s one of those mission/amish places…most of the work was cherry and pretty standard mission designs. Holy cow was the grain selection and fit/finish ugly…sticky/out-of-square doors, nothing flush, wood looks like stuff you buy for $0.50/bd ft full of weird grain and mismatched colors. Still not cheap furniture.
> 
> I guess my point is, this hobby has ruined my ability to buy furniture. All I can see is flaws. I think it also highlights the difference between Nice Furniture, High End Furniture, and Museum Quality Furniture. lol.
> 
> - Pezking7p


Ain't that the truth. I went onto someone's houseboat a while back that spent a boatload (pun intended) of money on interior woodwork. Trim, built-ins, paneling, etc. I walked in and could only think "Gap, gap, mis-match, not flush, finish issue, etc" on it.


----------



## Airframer

> I guess my point is, this hobby has ruined my ability to buy furniture. All I can see is flaws. I think it also highlights the difference between Nice Furniture, High End Furniture, and Museum Quality Furniture. lol.
> 
> - Pezking7p


Try being an aircraft mechanic and fly commercial. I always am checking out the plane thinking.. hmm. I would have done that better… that's a new sound probably not normal etc etc.. not fun.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sorry Pez. The ignorant bliss is gone.

I used to put the furniture at the Amana colonies on a pedestal until a visit last year. I saw planer ripples and I shook my head…..like a good furniture snob would;-)

But since you bring up 1/64".....we all have to decide what we can live with:
http://lumberjocks.com/GaryRogowski/blog/41502


----------



## camps764

Nothing pertinent to furniture making, but I wanted to call BRK out for being a heck of a nice guy.

The other night I got a random text from BRK asking if I was interested in some of his old stands and mobile bases. Although I didn't need the stands or the bases, I appreciated that he gave me a heads up, and thought of a fellow LJ when he had extra shop stuff he didn't need. I didn't end up needing any of it, but it was a nice reminder of the kind of community that threads/sites like this create.


----------



## RPhillips

^ Agreed! He also gave me a great deal on a Bedrock plane. Plus, he's always given me sound advice, and that goes for about 99% of the guys that post in this thread.


----------



## CL810

^ I say BS! Well, until i get a great deal on a Bedrock. Specifically a 603 or 604-1/2, type 6. :-0


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ hehehe. I wish I had a 603 and a 604 1/2 too!

Thanks Steve. In case there are any others in the Omaha/CB area. I do have a power tool stand like this:









And a HTC mobile base like this:









Free to a good home.


----------



## derekcohen

I posted this in Projects, so for you guys who do not go there …

Hans Wegner (April 2, 1914 - January 26, 2007) was probably the quintessential Danish furniture designer and most famous for his chairs. Their styling was modernist and minimalist, yet with all the joinery of traditional furniture making.

I started building a copy of Hans Wegner's "The Chair" in January, worked for all of that month, and then my day job and life got in the way and I was not able to return to it until a few weeks ago. It is now finished.

There is a complete set of pictorials (over 20 chapters) on my website. Just scan to near the end of this index page: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/index.html

The chair is constructed of Fiddleback Jarrah, and made nearly completely using handtools. The original was built with power tools, copy lathes and today is largely made with the aid of a computer. My challenge was to measure, and then construct using my eye and hands.

Here is the final result.




























And alongside an original chair ..










Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## RPhillips

I hope that one day I have the skills to pull off such fine work. well done.


----------



## JayT

Wow, Derek, what a beauty! I usually find your projects, but did miss the project post for this one. I'll have to fix that. Thanks for posting it here.


----------



## Pezking7p

Making a sculpted style chair is on my bucket list. I looked at your blog for this chair a month or two ago and was amazed at how you made the patterns from the original.


----------



## Hammerthumb

This is a great inspiration for a lot of fellow woodworkers. Absolutely admirable job Derek!


----------



## byerbyer

Beautiful work Derek!


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## wormil

Sweet chair, exceptional craftsmanship.


----------



## Pezking7p

So can anyone explain to me how tongue and groove boards are immune to expansion/contraction? Is this only if you secure each board with a little bit of extra space? Or only if you install them at maximum moisture so they can shrink?


----------



## j1212t

They are by no means immune to wood movement, they just don't have these unsightly gaps in them when they expand, as opposed to a butt joint. There will be gaps, but instead of seeing the light through the cracks you just see the tongue.

Also, if you want to glue up your panels then groove and tongue make it easier to align the pieces.


----------



## wormil

> So can anyone explain to me how tongue and groove boards are immune to expansion/contraction? Is this only if you secure each board with a little bit of extra space? Or only if you install them at maximum moisture so they can shrink?
> 
> - Pezking7p


T&G is designed to hide shrinkage and for strength. 
Did you by chance mean ship lap instead? 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiplap


----------



## BigRedKnothead

More than you ever wanted to know about this furniture maker:

http://lumberjocks.com/CricketWalker/blog/42010


----------



## Pezking7p

To clarify my question about TnG, I was wondering how you install it to prevent buckling when it expands, or if there is some feature of TnG that I do not understand that prevents buckling when expansion occurs. I understand the shrinkage part.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

It's alright Pez. I just wasn't totally understanding your question.

But all men "understand the shrinkage part."

lawl.


----------



## jmartel

"I swear honey, it's just cold in here"


----------



## Pezking7p

Dang shrinkage! "It was cold in the pool!"

So my kitchen cabinet build is impending, and I'm fretting about milling all the lumber for the frames and doors/drawers. I would prefer to cut everything to rough length, then rip, then mill to size. I much prefer handling short pieces in my shop. However, this creates extra work (cut to length rough, then accurately cut to length), and my planer snipes something fierce, so my waste would go through the roof. My alternative is to rip, then mill, then cut to length, but it's difficult handling pieces longer than 6' in my shop, especially in my crosscut sled.

So my options as I see them:
-cut to length first, and take the hit in waste and time, but work safely with the equipment I have.
-rip first, take extra setup time on jointer, planer, and table saw for long stock. Make a new crosscut sled to handle long boards.

The real reason I'm asking, is because there is a third option: have the lumber mill s2s my boards to 3/4". I can then go straight to jointing one edge and ripping. Has anyone ever had the mills do this before? Do the boards come out flat? I suppose even if they were flat, they would probably move when I ripped them.

What would you guys do?


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## jmartel

Well personally, I'm cheap, so I wouldn't pay the lumber mill to surface them normally. On something like this though, I might. It would save a ton of time. Not sure about your mill, but I can buy just about any of the wood my lumber store sells either rough or planed for something like $0.60-$0.75/bdft more.


----------



## ShaneA

Dan, I am about done w/the rough construction on the base cabinets. I can see already there is tons of waste. I chose the ugliest lowest grade boards to use from my pile because I knew there would be lots of cuts. So that added to the waste. But I wanted to keep the boards that were entirely clean for projects that might need that.

I ripped all the rough lumber on the BS, at about 3 1/4" wide. I am using 3" rails. Cut away any knots, then jointed/planed to 3/4". I too have to use smaller pieces due to size constraints. Then I cut away the sniped areas. Then, cut to approximate length based on my drawing and estimates for quantity. I will have a monster pile of waste. I know there are more efficient ways. I just wanted to make sure I had plenty milled up in advance.

I have been basically just making them one cabinet, cut to fit at a time. Although I am in no big rush.

The funny thing is…once I began to dry fit the last base cabinet, I looked over at my plywood stack and realized I still had 5 sets of pre-cut sides left. Oops! Who knows what I was thinking. That is enough for a whole nuther small kitchen.


----------



## Pezking7p

Shane, you're moving fast! Are you making stained cabinets or painting? How did you construct the boxes?

Jmart, $0.40/bdft for s2s, but will it be jointed flat?


----------



## ShaneA

3/4" prefinished ply for base sides. 1/2" prefinished ply for backs. Walnut face frames and doors. 1/4" walnut both sides mdf panels. Tung oil for color, then spray either a varnish I got from Sherwin Williams, or Deft lacquer. Undecided on top coat still.

I ran 1/4" deep dado along the bottoms to accept a 3/4" ply bottom, then glued and screwed. I will see if I can get some progress pics.


----------



## jmartel

Not sure if they joint it or not, but even their rough stuff that I buy is flat enough to throw through the planer on both sides and call it good. The only time I've really had not super flat boards is when I buy off of craigslist.


----------



## wormil

> To clarify my question about TnG, I was wondering how you install it to prevent buckling when it expands, or if there is some feature of TnG that I do not understand that prevents buckling when expansion occurs. I understand the shrinkage part.
> 
> - Pezking7p


Nothing stops it from buckling except design or leaving space between. My father-in-law built headboards from T&G and they buckled, or really they warped the entire headboard, because he didn't leave any space for expansion. How are you using them? Back of a cabinet or something?


----------



## RPhillips

Well I managed to pick up a planer yesterday. I found Delta 22-540 portable planer listed on Craigslist for just under $100. Came with some except blades too. Plugged her in and gave it test drive. Seemed to work pretty good from what I can tell. Time to make a stand with some descent in/out feed tables.


----------



## camps764

100 bones is a good price. Just take light cuts and it will do just fine. I have a similar planer and been using it for years with no issues. Dust collection is kind of a POS, but it is what it is.


----------



## Pezking7p

Rick, I was just curious. It was spawned by a comment regarding the back of cases needing to be ship lapped, t&g, or frame and panel.

Rob, good price for that. I have pretty much the same one. Gets the job done.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice Rob. Sometimes that's the way to go if you don't have the budget for the machine you really want as of yet.

Pez- You'll have to crunch numbers and see if it is worth it for the lumber place to plane your lumber. (cash vs. your time.) No, just running the board through a planner (skip planing is describe in that hybrid WW book) is not the same as cutting each piece to rough length, jointing a face flat, then running the other side through the planer to get a nice and true board. If the board is really bowed, and someone just runs it through a planer, it will still be bowed.

However! You have to think about your application….kitchen cabinets. Do the boards for your face frames have to be perfectly true? Nope. Your gonna attached them to the straight edge of a plywood box. If it has a bow, it will straighten out. 
Does your door frames need to be true? Yep, or the door will be wonky.

So, if it were me. I would start by planing the boards s2s. Either have the mill do it, or do some math and keep them as long as you can stand in your shop. Then….look at your lumber down the edge. Mark the stuff that is pretty darn straight for the doors. Mark the bowed stuff for the face frames.

Then I would rough cut lengths (your gonna need a bunch of 30" lengths for face frames, so cut at 31") Then edge joint those shorter lengths. Last rip to width. While ripping, if you notice the boards developing a crook your gonna need to ripping wider, joint an edge, then rip again.

Hope that all makes sense. I can pretty much guarantee you that cabinet companies don't joint the face of each piece flat.


----------



## chrisstef

FWIW when I did the countertops I had the mill take care of 90% of the milling for me. I went there with a cut list and we rough cut all the boards, then I had them joint one edge, joint one face, and skip plane the other face. It saved a bunch of time on my end. Their big 20" Oliver jointer and ginormous planer made short work out of it with much less snipe than my planer would have. All I really had to do was rip one edge and joint it 90 degrees after the cut. I wasn't so worried about the underside of the counters so no planing was involved. 8-10 hours of milling was reduced to around 2 hours. The quality was better and it involved much less waste.


----------



## Airframer

Wait… you had the mill do 90% of the work and it still took you 6 months to finish? Stef.. stef, stef….


----------



## chrisstef

Lol, but we never had a down day in the kitchen!


----------



## Pezking7p

Thanks guys. For 40 cents a BF, it's not worth it for me to even touch the planer (total cost is about $40), my main concern was that I would get 100 BF of twisted, bowed 3/4" thick material. Ill set aside the best boards for doors/drawers and not worry about the FFs.

Really getting excited about this build. Need to finalize my supplies list and order everything today/tomorrow. Then get the shop set up for production.


----------



## gildedrain

> there is a third option: have the lumber mill s2s my boards to 3/4". I can then go straight to jointing one edge and ripping. Has anyone ever had the mills do this before? Do the boards come out flat? I suppose even if they were flat, they would probably move when I ripped them.
> 
> What would you guys do?
> 
> - Pezking7p


Sorry I'm late to the party, but I wanted to mention that when I buy wood from Dunham Hardwoods , Zach checks every board for defects, twists, bows, knots… he checks for grain and color matching, cuts them to the rough length I specify, picks out the minimum width I specify, skip planes both faces and joints one edge at no extra cost. I just send him a spreadsheet of the boards I need and he does the rest.

One time I got a board with some honeycombing toward one end and he gave me the option of a partial refund for that unusable board footage or to just remove that amount from my next order, all the while apologizing that that board should have never made it into my order.

The lumber comes carefully wrapped to my door. It still needs to do 2 or 3 light passes with my planer to get it to final thickness and finish ready, but it saves me an entire weekend of monotony in making bags of wood shavings and dulling my planer blades. All of this and it still costs less than my local mills selling defect-full rough stock I have to mill myself. Saves me tons of time and make the hobby that much more enjoyable.

Good luck with your project!


----------



## byerbyer

Made a little headway on my kitchen cart project, but not as much as I'd have like too. I spent a good amount of time reshaping/sharpening my smoother blade so I could surface prep before I glued up the carriage. 
It has a Vertias A2 blade and chip breaker, and when I honed it originally it ended up having a concave "camber" instead of the convex camber you want… I came to the conclusion that my stones weren't actually getting flat when using sandpaper on glass, so a few months back I bought a Dia-Sharp Extra Course diamond stone to use as a lapping plate for my stones. It was time (and money) WELL spent. I'm still "honing" my sharpening skills, but I feel like I've taken a giant leap forward after seeing how well my smoother performed relative to my last project. 

I had to sort of re-design on the fly because the local lumber yard was out of 3/4" Birch ply wood, but had some very nice 12-ply 1/2" Birch ply (and I didn't want to trek to the BORG.)

I managed to get the ends for the carriage glued up…










AND I fit the plywood platform and dry-fit the rest of the carriage.










As you can see I also re-organized below my bench a bit so I didn't have to move my drawer parts before I started each shop session. I really want to dovetail those drawers but I'm already a couple weeks behind schedule and we're moving my GF to her new digs on Wednesday, so I may go with dado & rabbet construction to save on time. I haven't had a chance to make any of those slick magnetic DT guides (a la David Barron / BRK) so that's another reason I'm leaning towards DR construction… Anyway, onward and upwards, right? 
Cheers!


----------



## WhoMe

Thanks to all a page or 2 back posting all the handy dovetail info. I now have a project to add to the list. Dovetail guides…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Looking good Byer. I heart those made in 'merica Jorgy clamps.

Sometimes, in my head, I'm as smooth as the Matthew Wolfe dude when I'm working. 









-


----------



## theoldfart

+1 on the Red


----------



## camps764

Probably been asked in this thread before but….is the Schwartz workbench book worth it? I'm thinking I want to upgrade my current bench with a roubo or a hybrid roubo like Tyvekboy's

Any other solid resources for workbench plans? I really would just like to look at the plan and build the thing to be perfectly honest.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Emphatic yes on the Blue Schwarz Bench book. Especially if your not sure what vise setup/design you want to build. He's got chapters that go through all that.

The other option Steve, being local your more than welcome to borrow from my library. I've got that book, as well as a great workbench book by Scott Landis.


----------



## RPhillips

Steve - don't for get to peruse the workbench smackdown thread too. lots of good info there.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Had to use some large clamps today.










Top is 73-1/2" long. Laminated 1-1/2" pieces on the front and one side to match the stone top detail in my kitchen. #8 gave me a workout today. Think I'll look for a #7 soon.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Paul- what kind of plane is that in the middle of your bench?


----------



## Hammerthumb

It's a #3 Woodriver.










I have a Stanley, but the WR had a fresher edge. It's actually a nice plane once tuned.


----------



## Hammerthumb

By the way, these clamps are good for 100". Almost forgot I had them. Haven't used them in years.










Working on some kitchen cabinets.










The cherry top is for this one.


----------



## Pezking7p

Isn't it funny how all your planes end up dull before they get sharpened? Paul, that cherry looks cherry.

Not sure if I should keep this thread up to date on my kitchen cabs or what, but I got 75% of the milling done today.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Up to you Pez. Cabinets are really just casework….which is a big part of furniture making.

I'll post my outdoor furniture progress here once I get started.


----------



## Pezking7p

Cabs look nice paul.

Red, I guess I'll post progress. I hesitate to post a blog since I have no idea what I'm doing and don't want people to get the wrong idea!

So are you starting on chairs or what? I keep seeing you talk about this elusive outdoor furniture but no details!

Also, no shift today?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

hehehe. I'm on it Mr.taskmaster Sir! You guys got too used me knocking out projects in my sleep;-)

Right now I'm building a shop cabinet for a fellow LJ. And I'm looking through books and getting some inspiration for the white oak patio set. I've got about half the lumber right now, need to make a 2nd run.

I'll probably get on that next week. Everything goes slower with the kids out of school…and working 60-70 hours at the real job. Waited for the phone to ring all day, now I get to run a train all night. Good thing I've got a big thermos.


----------



## Pezking7p

Working long hours is a double edged sword. What's your typical shift?

With as many kids as you've got I reckon you need a picnic style table with benches and an umbrella. Also at least a few adirondack chairs.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Red will have them done before Stef gets his bench put together.










Got it stained, but missed a little tear out.










Did I mention that I hate kitchen cabinets?

Pez - I would be interested in your progress on the cabinets. Might as well watch someone else suffer.


----------



## TechRedneck

Just stopping in to say hi to to all my fellow woodworkers.

The business is taking a lot of my time this summer but I have squeezed some shop time in. If I get a chance I'll take some pics tomorrow. Wife is out of town and I have the whole day to spend in the shop!

Checked my favorites and there is WAY too much to catch up on, could be here a while.

Carry on….


----------



## Pezking7p

Mike, you're going to spend your whole day catching up instead of in the shop!

Paul, my suffering will be genuine and probably hard to watch. I've had to change my milling strategy 2-3 times so far today. Still not sure my door frame parts are flat enough. Should I run them through the jointer even though they may end up 11/16ths (or smaller) instead of 3/4?


----------



## Hammerthumb

I used 1/2" ply in mine so they are thicker than 3/4". Made to the wife's specifications. What are you using for panels?


----------



## Pezking7p

1/4 bead board except in the 5" drawers which will be 1/4" ply. Also, the doors are inset.


----------



## Hammerthumb

You could get away with thinner frames. Have you purchased hinges yet? If so, what are the limitations of the hinges?


----------



## Pezking7p

Have not purchased hinges but I'm planning on partial wrap hinges. Exposed finials. I think I can get away with it, but having never installed anything like this, I'm not sure.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I've built a few cabinets besides the ones in my kitchen, but do not claim to be an expert. What I do know is that inset doors are more critical for flatness. Overlay doors with modern Euro hinges have some adjustment room that inset does not. Maybe make a mockup with the thinner stock your talking about to see how well a panel fits into it. One other tip. Make sure your stock is square (90 degree edges) as that will also make a difference how flat the doors are. What kind of assembly are you using? M/T, pocket hole, etc.


----------



## Pezking7p

THank you for all the advice, seriously! Assembly of the doors is just glue via a rail and stile router bit set. My stock squareness should be good, just the flatness I'm worried about because I had the mill plane all my boards to 3/4". It's probably not that bad, i haven't actually had a chance to look at all the pieces I cut today. Need sleep, everything looks better in the light of day.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I can agree with that. Catch up tomorrow. Dinner and a little tv for me. By the way, great job on the bench!


----------



## camps764

Thanks for the offer *Red* I'll have to swing out your way and take you up on it. I'll bring the beers this time.

Just need to find a few hours where you ain't railroadin and I'm not HR'in.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Just needs the door pulls but I'm too tired today.


----------



## john2005

By the way Red, what kind of lathe?


----------



## TechRedneck

I have been absent from LJ's for a while, that dosn't mean that I haven't been in the shop on some weekends.

Here are some pics of the cherry sewing center for the wife that I've been working on too long. I am determined to finish this before fall and she is back to quilting.










Unfinished, took some time to fit the drawers. I hate sliders and will build pockets from now on.










My first hand cut dovetails on a real furniture piece. The slide out top took some time. I had a rough set of plans but most of this is "field to fit"










Rear view, the floating panels were finished prior to gluing the carcass. This thing is very heavy, will probably need help getting it off the assembly table.









Next is the top, needs final flattening, and breadboard ends. Then the fun part… cut a hole for the sewing machine and build a recess underneath to set it in. I think I will cut the opening first and if I don't screw it up then I will breadboard the ends.


----------



## TechRedneck

My daughter requested a cherry dresser to match her night tables that I built. Might as well have a couple projects going right?









Frame and panel construction









Was going to do sliding dovetails on the frame, however a simple rabbet and glue seems to be holding quite well. When it gets the top, base, and back it should last several lifetimes.









Maple drawer sides and bottoms are cut. I have the cherry drawer fronts cut (somewhere) oversized and will fit the drawers like an article I saw in FWW where you cut the fronts to fit the opening exactly (with small gap ) then hand dovetail the sides. The Moxon vice is going to get a workout in the coming months.


----------



## CL810

Nice work Mike.

David Savage's site.


----------



## ShaneA

Nice looking projects Tech


----------



## RPhillips

> Red will have them done before Stef gets his bench put together.
> 
> - Hammerthumb


Hell, I'll have my bench built before Stef gets his bench together…


----------



## jmartel

> Red will have them done before Stef gets his bench put together.
> 
> - Hammerthumb
> 
> Hell, I ll have my bench built before Stef gets his bench together…
> 
> - RPhillips


I'm sure future woodworkers who are just hitting puberty will have their benches built before Stef does.


----------



## DaddyZ

Progress on the wine rack, I wasn't sure I was going to like the Dark Walnut stain the customer requested, but it looks good so far.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Cool work there Tech.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Wine rack looks good Daddy.

That's too funny Jmart!


----------



## chrisstef

For sale:

5 old growth clear vertical grain doug fir timbers. 6"x6"x 7'. Would be great for a work bench. Email offers at [email protected]


----------



## Hammerthumb

Was wondering when you would get around to reading that. ;-)


----------



## Hammerthumb

Hey Stef, that e-mail address don't work!


----------



## theoldfart

STEF, I can stop by and pick them up.


----------



## Pezking7p

Paul, cabs looking good. Come by my place when you're done and help me with mine 

Mike, I love the solid panels. The desk especially looks great. Just poly finish?

Lol stef will get right on it after his 2-year long basement shop outfitting.

Almost have all face frame and door/drawer frame parts milled and ready to assemble. A lot more clean up work than I hoped, but it's worth it.


----------



## Airframer

Stef - No rush and not breaking your balls (yes I am) but my boys got his top glued up…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^hehehe. Great pic Eric. Looks like the glue fumes got to him;-)

Tech and and DaddyZ have some fine furniture builds going on. Thanks for sharing with us guys. Berry nice.


----------



## CL810

^^ I luv it!! Little Eric looks like he's saying, "oh yeah, that's my bench and this is my mallet!"


----------



## jmartel

And Eric's kid pulls ahead. I guess I was a bit optimistic that it would take them until puberty. Looks like he'll be done well before that. Stef, you're slacking.


----------



## Pezking7p

Baby framer throwing the stink eye.

90% done with a little architectural piece for my cabinets but I realized I should have bought that rasp my wife suggested at lie nielsen. Looks like I'll be ordering a rasp tonight so I can finish the corners.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Man, look at that pimped out bench and shop;-)

I see you've got the spokeshave out. That's my favorite way to work edges like that. Actually I've been wanting an LN curved sole spokeshave for situations like you pic, but they've been backordered for awhile. PSA sandpaper wrapped around a dowel will work in a pinch…..or a nice rasp.


----------



## GMatheson

I have had this big grinding wheel sitting on the corner of my tablesaw for about a year. Decided I really should build a home for it. Here is a little mockup so I could see how it spins. The base is all poplar I had laying around and once I'm ready to assemble it permanently it will be pegged mortise and tenon.

It will have white oak feet giving it a footprint twice as wide as what you see here and the wheel will be powered by a foot pedal and rope.










I hope to start the glue ups tomorrow


----------



## Pezking7p

Red, I love my spokeshave but I find it difficult to set the blade depth evenly, AND I have never gotten it out and not needed a curved spokeshave to finish the job. I went ahead and bought a rasp so it's moot . Shop is still a little shabby. Once the kitchen is done I'm going to take some time to upfit the shop a little bit with lumber rack, sharpening bench, and cabinets. I might go crazy and insulate it.

Greg, I can't wait to see the foot pedal setup, that thing is so cool.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice Greg. Looks like something out of "The Joiner and the Cabinetmaker."

Pez- at the risk of sounding like a tool snob, again….I find the new LN and LV spokeshaves to be much better tools than the vintage. I believe it's because the mouth openings are less that half as big. I have no idea why LN/Boggs didn't use the no 151 design with the blade adjustment, but its a fine tool anyway. Veritas was smart enough to incorporate this.

Feels appropriate with the passing of my favorite actor.


----------



## WhoMe

Red, I too am saddened by the passing of Robin Williams. More so that I would have thought. 
I have enjoyed many of his movies over the years and have always enjoyed his comedy. It does look like he finished two movies before his death though. Of which one I am totally looking forward to seeing. Night at the Museum: Secret of the Tomb where he reprises his role as Teddy Roosevelt. Of course, owning a Motor home made his Movie RV one of my favorites.

Some really nice cabinetry being posted and it is nice to see Pez using his awesome bench. 
Ill post a couple pics of my cabinet job soon.


----------



## john2005

Greg I'm diggin that.

Eric, I got a feelin that boy will be posting some stuff that will outshine all of us!


----------



## wormil

> - GMatheson


That's what I'm talking about. Looking forward to the finished project.


----------



## Pezking7p

Red, stop being such a tool snob! ......Ok I bought an auriou rasp so I think I've joined you in my tool snobbery.

So I've been thinking a lot about bringing stock to final dimensions lately. I think this is something that is often overlooked in woodworking videos and discussions, but is absolutely critical to making good furniture. So, what is your process for dimensioning wood?

Mine:
1) cut to rough length

*Steps 2) and 3) only performed for stock wider than my jointer*
2) joint one edge
3) rip to rough width 
4) joint one face
5) joint one edge
6) rip to finished width
7) plane to thickness
8) crosscut to finished length
9) finish edges and faces with hand planes

To me, this feels more complicated than it needs to be, and I get frustrated when dealing with my planer because it snipes so badly. Also my jointer does not leave a very nice edge unless you run the board through very slowly. Is dimensioning stock always this painful?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Tool snobs unite! If I bought spokeshaves again, I would probably buy the Veritas set. But I got the LN pretty cheap used.

Re: dimensioning lumber. That's pretty much how I do it when the part *needs* to be true as can be. However, as I alluded with your cabinet making….it's not always necessary. For example, it doesn't matter stock for a face frame has a slight bow. Your gonna attach it to a case anyway. So, as long as I have a reasonably straight piece, I just run it through the planer.

Really, when I buy select/FAS lumber, it's often pretty straight. So I skip plane it and go from there. I guess what I'm saying is, our furniture parts don't always have to be dead flat and true as we might think.


----------



## Pezking7p

What is skip planing? Just take super light passes?


----------



## theoldfart

Light pass to just see what the wood looks like grain wise. You don't go for a fully planed surface


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> What is skip planing? Just take super light passes?
> 
> - Pezking7p


Read about it in the book I sent you….knucklehead. Lawl.

Or skip to 22:00 in this video:




-
Everyone needs to know about skip planing.


----------



## Pezking7p

Dangit! The first two nights I had that book I read it, but now I'm building cabinets and reading fiction. I promise I'll read it!


----------



## Hammerthumb

See - you buy them books and send them to school…and see what happens?

Agree with Red about the face frames. It is the doors you want to keep the straightest wood for. I'm doing some toe kicks right now with the wood I had left that was warped and twisted. Planed to 3/8", I can make them work for that purpose.


----------



## Pezking7p

Oh that makes sense. I long for a big 15-18" planer with adjustable rollers. I hate planing.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I've got a crappy 10" planer too. It still skip planes though.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Here is the one I have. Cant find a pic in the shop. This is from when I picked it up from a friend for FREE! Luckily I was able to use one of the company trucks with a lift gate to get it to my place.










Its a 20" Powermatic. Don't really get any snipe. The old Jet planer I had did, so I would rough cut extra long so I could cut the snipe out.


----------



## Pezking7p

I have to physically lift my planer off the table in order to reduce snipe to 0.015. If I don't do anything it's like 0.040. Tables are non-adjustable. I have this dream where I build an adjustable infeed/outfeed bench for it, but I don't have a spot for that and I need it to be portable. I'm kind of halfway looking for a DW735 to show up on CL for $250, or maybe an older PM or Jet or something. The crazy thing is that my dad bought himself a DW735 for x-mas last year, and it's still in the box  He also has this badass jessem router table/lift with a shiny new 3 1/4 HP router. No bits, though, lol.


----------



## jmartel

My 735 doesn't put out hardly any snipe at all. And if it does, you can typically sand it away.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Never used or even seen a 735, but from everything I've read, they are really nice machines. Do they have 2 speeds?


----------



## jmartel

Yes. Normal speed and then a "finishing" speed. I haven't used the finishing speed for much else other than planing below 3/8" thick, but I've only just flipped the knives over after getting a nick in them. I suspect finish quality will be greatly improved on the next thing I throw through there, so sending it through on the slower speed would reduce the sanding needed.

Very loud though. I typically close the garage door and put on earmuffs when I run it so as to not disturb neighbors.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I think that is one of the best advantages of this Powermatic over the Jet I had. With the helical head, it only has half the noise level. Don't know what it would be like with the blade head, but I think the carbide cutters help to keep the noise level down. I maybe wrong.

By the way, I got a nice piece of veneer from LukieB for a project that just wasn't large enough for what I needed. Your welcome to it if you want. Send me a PM with your address and I'll send it.


----------



## jmartel

What kind of Veneer? I've got a good amount, so if it's something I already have then maybe someone else would be better off to get it. I appreciate the offer though.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Cant remember if it is Rosewood or Morado. Been a while since I got it. I'll get a picture tonight.


----------



## david_larch

I just finished this Mid Century Bench. More images and brief description in the projects gallery. Needless to say this was a very fun build, even though it feels like a few miles of danish cord…


----------



## ToddJB

20" Powermatic with Helical Head, Paul? That's some kind of friend.


----------



## ToddJB

David, that is beautiful.


----------



## b2rtch

(I just copy and paste) David, that is beautiful.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Wow David. That is beautiful. It does make my hands hurt to look at all of the cord though! Bet it's comfortable to sit on.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Yeah Todd. Guy I've helped out a lot through the years. When he gets a bigger machine, he calls me to see if I have room for his old one. Had to turn him down on a nice 3hp shaper. Would be nice if I had room for it as he also makes knives for them.


----------



## Pezking7p

I reckon a guy with a big shaper can get a pretty good side business going for doors/molding if he knows some contractors. There's a grizzly 3HP shaper + feeder on CL right now for like $750. I think Ive found my new calling.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Knives can get kind of costly for that so be prepared!


----------



## ArlinEastman

I am in awe of you guys and gals.

I do not thing I could ever do anything like what you are building. I wish I know how to do woodworking earlier and we would have had nicer furniture early in our marriage.


----------



## jmartel

That's why I got into woodworking, Arlin. I'm cheap, but I can't stand particleboard furniture. So, I learned to make my own. And I sell small things on the side to cover the cost of tools and wood so it costs me virtually nothing out of pocket.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> I am in awe of you guys and gals.
> 
> I do not thing I could ever do anything like what you are building. I wish I know how to do woodworking earlier and we would have had nicer furniture early in our marriage.
> 
> - Arlin Eastman


I wanted to do that also, but time and other commitments and the wife wanting it now, not next year were big factors. ;-)


----------



## jmartel

Lucky for me, even though the wife wants things now, we don't have the money to buy furniture outright at the moment, so she has to wait. Plus, it's not exactly common to find craftsman style furniture in Walnut, so I would have to pay for custom and wait for that as well.


----------



## DanKrager

Hammer, you got that 20" planer from a friend for free? Was he home and conscious at the time? 
Great gobs of green jealousy headed your way COD! Why didn't we hear a tool gloat????
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

^ I think he did post about it some time ago


----------



## Hammerthumb

Yeah Dan. I posted it about a year ago and received the obligatory "you suck". Funny story is when he gave it to me, I didn't pick it up for a year. When he gave it to me, it was a 15" planer. When I picked it up, it was a 20". I mentioned that to him and he said he must have given the 15" to someone else. In the year it sat there he had bought the 20" and taken it out of service for a larger one. My good luck for procrastinating!


----------



## DanKrager

Man, that really does suck, doesn't it, Hammer.
DanK


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Paul, If I were you, I'd be checking his garbage every week when he puts it out! ;-) cheers, Bob


----------



## john2005

> I have to physically lift my planer off the table in order to reduce snipe to 0.015. If I don t do anything it s like 0.040. Tables are non-adjustable. I have this dream where I build an adjustable infeed/outfeed bench for it, but I don t have a spot for that and I need it to be portable. I m kind of halfway looking for a DW735 to show up on CL for $250, or maybe an older PM or Jet or something. The crazy thing is that my dad bought himself a DW735 for x-mas last year, and it s still in the box  He also has this badass jessem router table/lift with a shiny new 3 1/4 HP router. No bits, though, lol.
> 
> - Pezking7p


I don't normally condone stealing, but….

Paul, since I missed it (or forgot) a year ago you suck!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks guys. If I had a bigger shop I would have taken him up on the offer of a panel saw, as well as the shaper. He has given me a 22-44 Performax wide belt and a few other machines. My shop is only 20×20, and its stuffed.


----------



## jmartel

Well, if it's stuffed, you can't fit that wide belt sander really. So I'd be happy to pick it up off of you and free up some space when I go to Vegas at the end of the month…


----------



## Hammerthumb

Bring a truck. I was going to move it over to another buddies shop as he comes over to use it more than I use it. I also have access to Gary's (the guy that gave me the planer) new wide belt that is as big as a truck.


----------



## RPhillips

Dan,

I say go by Dad, slip the 735 out of the box, carefully replace said box, and then head home with your new planer!

...or,

say hey Dad, I was thinking about getting one of the DW735's, mind if I borrow yours for a week or two see if I like it…


----------



## Pezking7p

lol, dad is an 11 hour drive away. If I'm up there again and it's still in the box, I'm taking it. Although he might get pretty sad. He's old and not doing so well.

Sounds like I really need to rent a box truck and slip by Paul's place. He wouldn't even care because a) all the tools were apparently free, and b) they would all be replaced with free upgrades anyway.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Not all of my tools were free, but I do have some I never use. Really need to clean out the shop and organize. Soon as I'm done with a few things (I say that all the time).


----------



## WhoMe

It may not be actual furniture but with some of the cabinet postings, it is at least similar. I finally finished that cabinet I had been working on for a client. 
She wanted her dishwasher removed (not used in years) and an insulated cabinet put in place that matched the existing kitchen cabinetry in style and color. 
The first thing was getting the old dishwasher out. Had to use a saws all to cut the legs off as the floor was put in after the DW was in place.








The hole it came from. Had to seal all the holes and gaps (saw light coming from outside the house), insulate the wall and re drywall. And whoever installed it did a scary bad electrical job with exposed wires. Pic shows capped wire at patch prior to removal back to the source. 








The installed insulated cabinet without doors in place. Cabinet had an additional 1" thick foam insulation around the top, sides and 2" thick in back. The wall of the house is south facing so a lot of head transfers into the house. 








And the completed install.
















I think it looks like it belongs.

The hardest part was matching the color of the 50+ year old kitchen and finding a profile router bit to match as close as possible to a 50+ year old cabinet profile. 
Cabinet was pre-finished 3/4" birch ply. 
Doors and face frame constructed with Philippine Mahogany dyed to match kitchen. Door inserts were 1/4 Philippine plywood. The Philippine Mahogany was the same type of mahogany used when the kitchen was built.
I used my Kreg pcket hole jig for the cabinet and face frame assembly. LOVE that jig.

New skills I learned:
designing and building a custom cabinet
making rail and stile doors including the use of a new router table. 
Doors were profiled on 2 sides with the 3/8 inset doors
Using a router table a LOT 
Dye matching wood to match.

Lesson learned - DON't get the single rail and stile router bit that you re-configure for both profiles. WAY TOO MUCH WORK to get it right. Spend the extra $$ and get a matched set of 2 router bits.
Also, take into account the material removed on the rails when routing. It makes the doors too narrow if you forget and you need to cut new longer pieces…lol

It was a LOT of fun and I learned a lot. Now on to that dresser….


----------



## CFrye

Wow, Mike! It looks original!


----------



## RPhillips

Mike - excellent work.


----------



## ShaneA

Nice job on the retro fit. That does look like it belongs there. Well done.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mike- you did a nice job with that. I usually shy away from jobs like that. I hate matching stains. However, I find I'm usually pickier than the customer.

Arlen- Thanks man. I suppose many of us did start making furniture out of necessity. Well, that is to say we wanted nicer furniture than we could afford. Once a guy starts outfitting a nice shop, he might wonder if he saved money or if he should have bought the furniture…lol. Nah, selling some furniture helps. I'm pretty sure my woodworking has paid for itself by now.

Another note about skip planing. I didn't have a jointer for the first 3 or 4 years here. I used go to places where the lumber was already planed and just select straight stuff. If I needed to joint an edge, I used a straight edge and pattern bit in a router. Work with what you gots.

Shane- I still don't believe your making cabinets. No pics= fiction;=)


----------



## WhoMe

Red, I really took this as a skill builder. I knew the color match would be a challenge.
I went through more than a dozen tests before nailing down the final color. I had even fully dyed and finished the mahogany based on my matching sample that ended up being too dark. only to strip it all down and re dye it with the final color you see. Much less Brown and almost all yellow. Definitely a challenge but I learned a lot and the client was extremely happy with the final product. Which was the goal in the first place.
Good thing all around.
And, I really had fun doing it too!!!

Btw, thanks all for the positive words. I appreciate it coming from such talented and skilled folks like you.


----------



## john2005

Very nice work Mike!


----------



## camps764

Definitely impressive Mike, thanks for sharing the process with us! Really cool to see the install start to finish. Color matching intimidates the heck out of me.


----------



## DanKrager

WhoMe, that IS indeed a nice piece of work. I can see why the client would be happy. You did good.

Finish matching is tedious to me because there are so many variables to deal with. Color is only one variable. There's depth, refraction, sheen, among others. If one does not know the original process used, it becomes a crap shoot. It helped me a lot to have spent some time in a commercial furniture factory to understand the 27 step process used to control the variables and produce consistent finishes from batch to batch over years.

You did really good. 
DanK


----------



## ArlinEastman

Red

By your shop I you must make wonderful furniture.

Mike

Great work. If I could do stuff like that my wife would have the new cabinets she wants.

Everyone

Have a good day


----------



## Pezking7p

> Also, take into account the material removed on the rails when routing. It makes the doors too narrow if you forget and you need to cut new longer pieces…
> 
> - WhoMe


Wish I had read this a week ago!! I had to recut every rail in my kitchen. Oh well. I found some errors in my cultist anyway so it's a good thing I scrutinized it this morning after reading your post.


----------



## WhoMe

Dan, you are right, it was not just color. I forgot that I used semi gloss as a finish and still needed to use 0000 steel wool to match the sheen as close as I could.

Pez, yea, that was a "doh!!" moment. Luckily the rails were short and there was only 4 of them in my case. So not a lot of wood wasted.


----------



## Pezking7p

Well it wasn't so bad in my case because all the log pieces could be cut into smaller pieces, so it cost me about 4 bdft of maple. However I spent 2 hours fixing it up. I'm just glad that I read your post last night. Color match looks great btw.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^I've done that a few times. I like to make the grooves in my panel doors 1/2", that way I can just add an even 1" to all the door rails.

I'm finally narrowing down some designs for my upcoming outdoor furniture build. I'm going Japanese. They have wonderful designs. 








-
I may build this bench out of FWW, may not. But that's the style I'm going for. Still sketching.


----------



## Pezking7p

Dude. Bro. Dude. Love it. All my living room furniture is going to end up a little Asian. Tapers here, curves there. The upper back support is so subtle yet defining.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Also, I'd like to put a master list of furniture sites we can draw inspiration from. Maybe I can add them to the original post. Here's some off the top of my head.

http://www.doucetteandwolfefurniture.com/
http://www.amanashops.com/category/amana-furniture-shop
http://www.stickley.com/
http://www.finefurnituremaker.com/
http://www.furnituremaker.com/
http://www.mattdownerdesigns.com/bedgal.html
http://www.chbecksvoort.com/
http://www.andrewpittsfurnituremaker.com/
http://www.josephwalshstudio.com/

Please share any others you might have that I can add to the list.

Gracias amigos.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Pez, there's a reason Greene and Greene were heavily inspired by Asian design and architecture.

I'm not great at design. I'd just as soon use a plan. But, once again, I didn't have much luck find plans I liked…so I went to the drawing board just "borrowing" things l liked. I have to say, I like what I'm coming up with.


----------



## j1212t

If we're talking inspiration IMO you can't go wrong with the master craftsman Mr Tom Fidgen.

http://www.theunpluggedwoodshop.com/


----------



## JayT

David Barron does some excellent work, mainly boxes and small cabinets.

http://davidbarronfurniture.co.uk/david_barron_furniture.asp

A bonus, is that if you follow his blog, he frequently posts pics from various events that showcases some incredible design and work.

http://www.davidbarronfurniture.blogspot.com/

Also, a little offbeat, but very inspirational is Kagen Schaefer. He does a lot with puzzle boxes, but has done some furniture and his designs and craftsmanship are astounding.

http://www.kagenschaefer.com/

If you are interested in chair making

http://www.brianboggschairmakers.com/


----------



## vikingcape

The happy swede is starting his bed for him and his queen.

The maple i got for the head and footboard is outstanding. I have cherry for the posts and rails


----------



## RPhillips

Thanks for the links, love the Matt Downer designs!


----------



## jmartel

Damn it red, why did you have to show me that Stickley site? Now I have a lot more things I want to build.


----------



## ToddJB

Dang Kaleb that maple is huge. Hope the big one on the right was free since it has a crack in it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice Kaleb. It looks like lumber prices are rising, so we're all gonna have to start stocking up!

Thanks for the suggestions for Furniture making websites. I have added the list to the OP. Let me know if ya'll have others.

Somewhat related to the topic of inspiration or "borrowing designs," Marc Spagnuolo had an interesting post today. 
Selling Wood Whisperer Designs for Profit

Believe it or not, I've had a few people copy my work. Like Marc, I don't care. I take it as a compliment. To my mind there isn't enough quality furniture out there, so I'm stoked if others are joining in. Perhaps they'll find their own niche.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Check out some of my fancy drawings for Japanese outdoor furniture…

















Ya, I always say I'm going make some nice drawings to scale…but after a bit of sketching I just say, "Ahh, forget it" and start working. I can see it in my head, and it's glorious;-)

Maybe I'll let the wood speak to me….tell me what it wants to be. lol


----------



## ToddJB

Is there an ideal layout of maximum comfy-ness with wooden seats? Like your chair, what are the angles, how much curve do you make for your butt, etc? I really want to make a pair of porch swings, but don't want to put in a ton of time effort, and money just to find out they're not comfortable.


----------



## Hammerthumb

That's what my wife tells everyone. She says that you can't give me measurements cause the wood will tell me what it's supposed to look like.

I like building off a sketch like you have Red. Very little except for the basic size as far as measurements.

How about a sand sculpture in the middle of that table. That would be pretty Zen like!


----------



## CL810

Sebastian Errazuriz has a very different take on things. Here is a cabinet he made. You can look at other furniture by him here.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Added Sebastian Andy. That stuff what my grandpa would call, "artsy fartsy" lol.

Todd- I have the same questions. The Adirondack is just gonna have to develop as it goes. I'll probably make a few things out of pine, just to see how it feels on my bum…Maloof style. I've got a few Adirondack plans I will borrow dimensions and such from. There might have to be a his and hers due to the huge size difference between my wife and I.

The dimensions for things like a dining table are all in my head. I know I like 30" tall etc.

Paul- I know we joke about the wood calling the shots. But sometimes I really do mill the stock I have in mind as big as possible, then draw on the actual piece. I enjoy working this way.


----------



## CL810

> Paul- I know we joke about the wood calling the shots. But sometimes I really do mill the stock I have in mind as big as possible, then draw on the actual piece. I enjoy working this way.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Setting aside budget/wood quantity, +10.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ Right Andy. It can create more waste, but a guy can be smart about it.

For example, I just milled up the table legs. I had some oak literal 2×10's. If I wanted 4" legs, I could rip them and have a funky 2" rough strip. Probably less after jointing. Ehh, I ripped em down the middle, that way I can go bigger if I want…..and sharp shoot defects.


----------



## CL810

Add the "can't throw away wood" disorder and this is what you get! LOL


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ My shop elves could help you with that Andy. Recently found a "special fort" on our back hill. It was built primarily out of walnut and oak cutoffs. Doh!

Well, with all the curves on this Japanese outdoor set, I told the wife I NEED a curved LN spokeshave. Darn.


----------



## Pezking7p

I thought you preferred the veritas? I'm hoping my rasp shows up today because I want to finish my little curved piece this weekend.

I like the chair design red. I would drop the arm angle down a bit and lay the backrest back at about 7-10 degrees. 12-14 degrees for more loungy type of seating.

I think the "Furniture and Cabinet Construction" book has "standard" furniture sizes in one of the first chapters.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Pez- I think the blade adjustment of the veritas spokeshaves (based on stanley 151) is a great feature, but my love for LN wins out. I have the LN flat bottom shave….and it is a wonderful tool.

I agree about dropping the arms a bit.


----------



## WhoMe

"I'm turning Japanese, I think I'm turning Japanese, I really think so…." 
Oh wait, that is Red..
Well it was the first thing I thought of when Red posted the Japanese book pic.
Forget the spokeshave, I'd be asking for a band saw…
And 30", isn't that about mid-shin height for you Red??? )

Cool Sebastian link, CL810. Way Cool design and art concept. Kind of blew the function part though.. lol. I'm sure function was never part of it.


----------



## Iguana

Thos. Moser's site is usually good for some inspiration: http://www.thosmoser.com/


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Duh, how could I forget Moser. Thanks Mark.


----------



## NormG

Sounds interesting, I am onboard


----------



## August

Hey Red 
I'm building this bed frame,
And the legs and post and rails is made out of red oak,
And drawers face also will be oak.
What is a good finish to use?
Have any advice?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

August, I really like wipe-on poly for stuff like that. People rave about the Arm-R-Seal brand. Generally just use minwax with satin sheen.

At least 3 or 4 coats. Let each dry overnight. Sand with 400 grit between.


----------



## August

Thanks Red ok I'll head to menards and get some,
So wife will be happy .


----------



## camps764

August - I second the wipe on Minwax satin poly. I like to get regular satin poly, and cut it with mineral spirits to make my own wipe on. Then I have full control of how fast it builds and, to a degree, how much self level I get out of it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

True, you can make your own wipe-on poly by mixing regular poly with min spirits around 3 to 1. In the past I've been frustrated with batches I've made skinning over or being ruined while stored in a jar (with lid).

Recently I picked up s Bloxygen. Looking forward to trying it.


----------



## August

Thanks Steve 
Thanks Red

Ok on the 2 front bed post 
The end grain is shown
What is the best way to stain that so it will looks nice?


----------



## camps764

Dan - I've had the same problem so I usually mix smaller batches. I've found that a little bit goes a long way. Typically I will use the same measuring cup for all batches of the same project. After I mix each batch up I give it a quick rinse with a little more Mineral spirits to get the extra poly out of the bottom.

Lemme know whats up on that Bloxygen stuff…looks interesting.


----------



## Pezking7p

August, when you finish end gran you need to make sure it's completely sanded. I sand my end grain to 400 grit, then hit it with some mineral spirits, any spots that aren't completely sanded will show up dark. Once sanded, I find end grain is very attractive. Might want to put a small chamfer on the top. And bottom of the bedposts, though, or they are sure to chip.


----------



## jmartel

August. Sand end grain at least one step further than the face grain so that it won't overly darken. I.e. go to 320 grit on end grain if you sand to 220 grit on face grain.


----------



## camps764

good advice on the chamfer pez. knocking down the edges just a touch will be a big help, and sharp edges are miserable on furniture…i have some on a desk i built a while back, and every time I touch the sharp edges I get irritated.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

As the design evolves…..









I couldn't get into the table leg that swooped out at the bottom, so I went with plan B(on the right) for the outer corners on the legs.









Diggin it. Of course my 14" bandsaw did not enjoy 5" thick white oak. The one HP is a wuss. 









Knocking off the high spots with a draw knife. You can smooth sweeping curve like this with a flat bottomed spokeshave by extending the blade a bit. But I'm not letting that ruin my excuse to get a round bottomed shave


----------



## August

Thanks Dan
Thanks Jeff
I use the minwax because wife wanted a specific color.
And I also bought a clear wipe on poly.
I sanded the frame first with 120 and then I applied the stain.
It's been 8hours since the stain was applied.
So so I sand the frame now with 320 and it 400 and out second coat?


----------



## August

> As the design evolves…..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn t get into the table leg that swooped out at the bottom, so I went with plan B(on the right) for the outer corners on the legs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Diggin it. Of course my 14" bandsaw did not enjoy 5" thick white oak. The one HP is a wuss.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Knocking off the high spots with a draw knife. You can smooth sweeping curve like this with a flat bottomed spokeshave by extending the blade a bit. But I m not letting that ruin my excuse to get a round bottomed shave
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Men red you really are a woodworker
I always notice all your tools have a handle,
I tend to stay away from them now, because I notice that it requires strength to use them.
LOL

What are you making now?


----------



## CL810

Spent yesterday making two jigs for cutting the legs for my next project. It's another blanket chest but a big departure from my comfort zone. It will be based on Vilkman's Alabama Man chest from the Blanket Chest book.










Can't have Red being the only one posting curvy legs can we?  But I gotta admit, Red's do look bigger but it might be more of his Kung fu camera trickery, I'm not sure.


----------



## SASmith

Jack Harich is/was an art furniture maker you may want to add to your list.
Pretty impressive work. He was a furniture maker for 8 years before he quit.


----------



## byerbyer

Solid work in the forum lately gents!

My title changed at the office so I've been much busier of late and haven't had as much shop time (or LJ's time) as I'd like.
.

I didn't have as much 3/4 plywood as I needed (and neither did the lumber yard) so I had to improvise some for the back of the drawer case and laminated some 1/2" to make the biscuit joints easier to align.









Some hardwood edging, a few biscuits, and a couple dabs of glue and voila a drawer case.









A gluing up the carriage was a little more stressful than I would've liked but it's done and it'll be ready for surface prep and a little paint soon.










I've wrapped up the carriage, deck, and drawer case this weekend and will hopefully get a cracking on the drawers and top over Labor day weekend. Cheers all!


----------



## jmartel

Looking more and more like a blanket chest now, I'd say.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Wow you guys are busy! No furniture for me, but did get a saw done for the saw swap. Wife has another cabinet for me to build next week. Great work guys!


----------



## kiyoshigawa

So we're posting legs now? Maybe I can participate for once. I'm only making a grinding bench, so it's probably more workbench than furniture, but I guess I can call it practice for future real furniture projects. Hand-cut mortise and tenons are fun. I think I'm getting better. 









Still plenty of room to improve, but all the joints are tight and solid even with a couple gaps here and there on the edges.









Definitely improvement since my bench, which was my first real project. I honestly have no idea what's actually holding the bench together with my earliest tenons looking like they do. I'll just assume that they're thicker near the end I can't see.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Lots of good builds going on.

Tim- Good job. Getting a little better every time, that's the main thing. Looks like the tenons on your old bench could use some wedges. Act like you planned it;-)

Scott- thanks for the Jack Harich link. Guy's got some beautiful stuff.

Jmart- Is the blanket chest going to get stain?. Alder is one of the few woods I nearly insist on staining. It sings with color.

Clayton- Very nice. Blanket chest book you say? I have no such book…yet!

August- I'm nut sure I'm using a draw knife the way it was intended. But I don't have a spindle sander, or an old school radius plane.. It's working pretty well so far. 
My going is to shape and smooth this outdoor set entirely with hand tools. I'm going to leave the tooling marks; hoping for a rustic feel.


----------



## jmartel

No stain, Red. Going to stay the same color as it is. It will be assembled tonight, and I should be able to get the corbels finished tonight as well. Then all that's left is the top.

I sent him a photo of a board with denatured alcohol on it as a preview and he said it was fine as it is.


----------



## jmartel

Chest is glued up, corbels are cut, sanded and glued on, and the lid is the only thing that's left.


















The knots in the lid will be epoxied, and there will be a butterfly on each end to stop the checks from propagating. I wanted to try something out with butterflies, but didn't really have anything that required it until now.

I'm going to make the decorative butterflies that I showed red a while back for his small table out of African Blackwood. Like this:










I'm debating doing an inlay of the letters M-S for his last name (hyphenated) on the underside of the lid. Thoughts?


----------



## j1212t

I would go with the Letters. I feel that a personal touch is always appreciated.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I agree with Jake. A little personal touch. Besides, after doing the baseball, how hard can a couple of letters be? Make sure your butterflies don't end up looking like bats Jmart! ;-)


----------



## Pezking7p

I feel that the initials will give it a personal touch, but detracts from the overall classiness of the piece. But since the chest isn't for me, maybe you want to ask the people you're making it for?


----------



## ToddJB

If the top will have inlays, I think under the lid would be fine to have them too. I would keep them small though - similar to the butterflies.


----------



## jmartel

> I feel that the initials will give it a personal touch, but detracts from the overall classiness of the piece. But since the chest isn t for me, maybe you want to ask the people you re making it for?
> 
> - Pezking7p


It would be on the underside of the lid, so only seen when opening it.

Additionally, they only know that I'm making something. I don't want to ask any questions to give away anything about what I'm making.


----------



## JADobson

I'd agree with Pez, initials would take away from the classiness. If you really want to do something to personalize it maybe a stamp on the bottom of the chest with their name or something like that. Then it is not as visible but still there for that personalized touch.


----------



## camps764

This might be a little out there, but could you do one of the butterflies as stylized initials?

Same wood, similiar shape to the other butterflies, almost so its not noticeable. The initials would have to be something shaped similar to the butterflies, but I think it could be a cool, classy, additional touch.

Edit** super crummy sketch…but something along these lines.


----------



## jmartel

Got one side flattened today. Lots of shavings around the garage now. I also cut the butterflies for the cracks. It looks like the grain is running the wrong direction, but that's just the saw marks from the bandsaw.


























I may or may not get around to flattening the other side tomorrow night and inlaying the butterflies. I need to pack for a weekend away, so we'll see what I can get to.


----------



## Pezking7p

Looks good jmart. You're moving along quickly now. I'm hoping to make a pair of chests in the next 6 months or so. But hoping to keep it simpleish. How would you rate this design?

Well, cabinets are getting close to ready to paint. Someone in here (I keep forgetting who, one of the pro types) recommended I use tinted lacquer, and I decided to use sherwin Williams pre catalyzed lacquer because that's what the whole world recommends. However, this stuff is really hard to buy. Out of 5 SW stores in my city, none of them have the ability to tint this lacquer, and most of them hadn't heard of that product line, even our commercial store. I'm going to have to buy it from a store that's 1.5 hrs away with a 10 business day delivery time, and open an account with SW commercial. All for $80 in primer and lacquer. Starting to wonder about my decision…


----------



## JayT

The butterflies look good, jmart. It certainly does look like the grain is running wrong, glad that is just milling marks.


----------



## jmartel

Pez, the design is pretty simple. The only thing you need to do is make sure that you set up the time to cut the tongue and grooves both centered. The rest of it just falls into place. I can send you the plans for it if you decide on this design.

The only thing left on construction is flattening the other side of the top, inlaying the butterflies, and sanding the top down. I'll see what I can get finished tonight. But I'll have all day Monday off at home to finish it up and start putting on finish.

Jay, once I inlay them and sand it flush you'll be able to see the grain going the proper direction. Maybe. The wood is pretty dark and the grain doesn't easily show up.


----------



## byerbyer

Looking sharp, jmart.


----------



## RPhillips

Looking good jmart!


----------



## DanKrager

Pez, catalyzed lacquer may not be all it's cracked up to be. I agree that if you can afford it, obtain it, and deal with it, it is a good, durable product for your application. Would not drive 1 1/2 hours to obtain it. I've used their clear stuff and liked it, but you will likely have to dispose of any left overs because once catalyzed, the shelf life is almost non-existent. You can tint the stuff yourself if you're not afraid to do so. Tint a measured amount, test it, then when you're happy, tint the whole bucket at once using the same proportions. It handles and cleans up just like regular lacquer. Perhaps dries a bit faster, but it was a real pleasure to spray it. Since I had a large piece to do, I used a standard Binks 5 gal pressure pot, which you can place a gallon can inside of if that's all you're going to use… HVLP will work nicely too. 
Do you have to do the insides or did you use prefinished stuff? Why using tinted stuff? It's really hard to get consistent results and touch-up is impractical.
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I dunno Pez. My buddy is one of the best painters I've met. He swears today's high end latex paints are as tough as the oil paints of old. I've been happy with my painted cabinets.

Been reading some Krenov:

*
"Fine things in wood are important, not only aesthetically, as oddities or rarities, but because we are becoming aware of the fact that much of our life is spent buying and discarding, and buying again, things that are not good. Some of us long to have at least something, somewhere, which will give us harmony and a sense of durability - I won't say permanence, but durability - things that through the years, become more and more beautiful, things that we leave to our children."*


----------



## Pezking7p

DanK, I really really appreciate your feedback. I'm using tinted because it was recommended to me over the paint, and I chose it primarily because of the fast dry time and because it's ready to spray out of the box. I only have the cabinet faces to do, the insides are prefinished.

Red, I don't doubt that the paints are great, but I've never had good luck getting any paint to level-my fault, not the paints. Since my job is solvent coating, I feel much more comfortable understanding and working with the solvent coatings. I work with some emulsion/water based inks and coatings, and they are more painful to work with regarding thinning, etc because of emulsion concerns. I can still be talked out of this, though.

I'm more scared of the spraying than anything else. :/ just going to have to deal. I'm sure there will be panic moments but my plan is to spray some water on cardboard first.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, just trying to help Pez. My keys to spraying latex…or anything.
- Lay everything flat that you can….and lay on the paint thick. My cabinet doors leveled out and look really nice. 
- For things vertical…several thinner coats.


----------



## Pezking7p

Did you hvlp your latex? I have a really cheap hvlp system that I was concerned wouldn't handle the latex.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nah I have an small graco airless from HD. They are well worth it for any homeowner imo.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Graco-X5-Airless-Paint-Sprayer-262800/100634354

But before I had that, I used to rent them often.


----------



## RPhillips

I have that same sprayer, bought it to stain my fence. Works very well.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Hey Red, meant to ask if you ever got that round bottom spokeshave? I have a Pinnacle, but not sure how I like it. It does have a learning curve for using it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Paul, I received the LN round bottom spokeshave earlier this week. It is a slightly different animal than a flat bottomed shave. I do like it, but it takes practice to find the sweet spot. Also, it seems imperative to keep the curved bottom shave very sharp. A dull blade wants to rock.

Actually, I was surprised that there wasn't more of a radius on the bottom. Only slightly curved. The instructions said the user could modify the sole however they liked. Eeekk! I'm not that confident with my metalworking skills to modify an LN spokeshave.

Back to those outdoor table legs. The drawknife was somewhat effective, but slow. I switched to no 5 cross grain so I could get down in that curve:









Then to the spokeshave. Often on the push stroke for heft. Afterwards a card scraper where needed. 









Then I wiped a coat of Watco teak oil just to see. Pretty sure I'll be using that for the finish. 








-
I'd be interested as to whether a big orbital sander is more efficient for something like this. After the bandsaw, each leg took me about 20 min to be finish ready with the method above. You'd have to work up in grits in an orbital sander to get the same result. And I have no doubt which is more enjoyable. That stuff is interesting to me.

There's a lot of situations where hand tools can't even come close to the efficiency of power. However, with custom curved pieces….I think hand tools are neck and neck.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Know what you mean. I've used a belt sanded to clean up the inside of a radius. Have to hold it at an angle into the radius. Got to be careful to keep it even though. A nice ocilating spindle sander would be nice also. I've never invested in one, but with a lot more curves in my latest work, I might have to invest in one.

Summerfi might be picking up a compass plane for me tomorrow. I'll let you know how that works if he can get it for me.

By the way, I wish the curve on the Pinnacle was smaller. Should have ordered the LV. I do like the Pinnacle flat shave thought. Also, I did get the LV LAJ on your recommendation. Worth every penny. Use it for a lot of things, but really like the way it works as a shooter.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I've always wanted to try a radius plane. I doubt any modern tool makers will remake one.

My apprentice made a "rabbit house" with cutoffs. Notice the carrots;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Red, I asked Deneb Pulchawski at LN about that. His response was way too expensive to develop and make and the market for it would be too small.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, kinda what I figured Kev. Still be fun to try one.


----------



## theoldfart

Come to think of it I'm not sure if I asked about the circular plane or a bit brace, in the end I asked about both while I was there. One of their issues is the ability of a lot of us being able to revive vintage stuff rather than pay the price of new. All of the tools i tried out did perform better than my vintage stuff, some time i am going to acquire an over size bronze smother as well as the shooting plane.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"All of the tools i tried out did perform better than my vintage stuff"

That's scandalous talk on LJs….lol.

Hey guys, I was given this piece of white oak because it had some streaks of dry rot. Would it still be ok for outdoor furniture?


----------



## theoldfart

I'm all about scandal! Tried super glue on the punky stuff?


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, the punky stuff can lead to problems unless you seal it up like TOF suggested. Used in non-structural elements it should then be OK.
DanK


----------



## Hammerthumb

I would be afraid of using anything outdoors that had any dry rot.

Bob put a pic of the compass plane on the HPOYD thread. Can hardly wait! Don't you have one Kevin, or was it Andy that has one?

Nice rabbit house Red.


----------



## theoldfart

I have one, later model. Got it from Kevin ( lateral). Still hunting for a tote though.


----------



## theoldfart

First coat on




































Watching the sky for rain!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice!


----------



## DanKrager

Lat, that's a piece of furniture. Inspiring…
DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Can't remember where I came across this…might have enhanced it a bit too, don't remember.

"I was intrigued that the name Thagarus sounded familiar, so I did some research only to discover that his first name was indeed Peter. I also discovered that his middle name is one I could relate to quite well, Innert. It turned out that he was at one time a student of the great mathematician Euclid, whose work, as you know, is still taught in our schools today. However, Mr. Thagarus had some notions that were too radical for Mr. Euclid and he was banned from the school. Not to be defeated, Mr. Thagarus took up woodworking where he tried very hard to apply his theorems about square pegs in round holes. On the verge of bankruptcy he turned to an advisor who suggested a whole new approach. He should consider round pegs in square holes. This wasn't working out much better. He worked diligently to correct his wobbly chisel technique and was about to give up woodworking entirely when his son, Ivandea, suggested applying a tiny wooden version of Euclids inclined plane that he had been working on for some time. Together they finally managed to arrange it so the inclined plane chip would fill the gap between the round peg and the wobbly square hole and the wedged tenon was born. The furniture would now stick together and it soon became known as the Sticky design. A distant Scandinavian relative named Gustav funded a massive manufacturing operation and the furniture was marketed throughout Europe as the "Gustav Sticky" line. P.I. Thagarus was soon forgotten, as are most woodworkers, but Ivandea is remembered everywhere."

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan I like it! Tell us more. Have you seen the History of Wood series on the LAP blog? Kinda the same flavor .


----------



## DanKrager

No, I haven't seen that. Sounds like fun…I'll try to find it.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan herehttp://blog.lostartpress.com


----------



## theoldfart

next up, wax


----------



## RPhillips

Nice Kevin, looks like someone will be very happy to receive this.


----------



## theoldfart

Rob, had to laugh at your comment. The wife has been bugging me to finish it, since it's for her!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Man Kev, I'd have a hard time not making a tote for that radius plane…just to try it out!
Nice work on the six board chest. Those look like a really fun all hand tool build.

DanK- so I'm not the only one who can recite things I've read? Well, the things I find interesting

Re: my dry rot oak. That board really is a shame. 8/4 qtr sawn white oak….which tough to come by even for me. I think I'll still use it on a little end table for the adirondacks…. or something I'm not too worried about.

Shoot. Maybe I'll need one of these for my outdoor set.


----------



## CL810

Questions for the panel. I'm going to resaw some 8/4 mahogany to make veneer for the panels of a blanket chest and I'm wondering about a few things. (Well, more than a few, ;-), but let's ease into this.)

First, is there a preferred final thickness? I'm thinking 1/16" but didn't know if there is a reason for thicker or thinner.

Second, how thick should I make the cuts to allow for planning/smoothing the veneers? If 1/16 is the final thickness goal, is starting out at 1/8" thick enough?

Third, is 1/4" plywood stable enough to veneer both sides to end up with a 1/2" panel?


----------



## DanKrager

CL810, you're going to go through a lot of work to make the panels, so I would question starting with ordinary 1/4" fir plywood. I'd at least start with Baltic birch plywood. If you resaw to 1/8" starting with one smooth side which you glue to the panel, then you'll have less than 1/2" to start with because BB is metric, unless you find some special made SAE stuff. No matter really because you can adjust for the shortfall if you make the panels first. Resurface the remaining blank on both sides to repeat the resaw yielding one smooth side each piece. 
With your panels veneered you will have the band saw marks exposed on both sides which you can plane or thickness sand to finished dimension, which will be just enough to remove the saw marks. A thickness sander would be ideal for this. 
Commercial veneers are pretty common at 0.030", 1/16" is 0.063. You don't want to mess with less than 1/16" in a home shop.
Good luck. It should be pretty straightforward for you.
DanK


----------



## CL810

Thanks Dan, I'm with you the BB ply.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Clayton- wish I could help…but I've never sliced my own veneers. Marc has a video that may help:


----------



## bondogaposis

I just finished this three legged dragon stool. It was a really cool project w/ lots of joinery challenges. The dragon claw stretcher is really quite complicated considering there is only 3 pieces to it. I posted more pictures on the projects page. Here are some step by step pics.









Before you can begin you have to establish some reference lines on something you can go back to to take measurements from and use to set your angle gauge. I drew this out on a piece on MDF.









Next up is to cut the stretchers and tenons, then mortise them. Only 3 pieces but six tenons and 3 mortices.









This is seat sub-assembly, pretty straight forward, the difficult part is locating the mortices for the stretchers.









Here is everything dry fit, time to work on the seat.









After roughing out the shape on the band saw I trued it up on the lathe. I also dished out the center and rounded the edges while on the lathe.









Here is the glue up. You have to have some slop in the joints because you can't put it together unless you do and also because you have take apart and put it together hundreds of times to get everything to fit, if the joinery wasn't loose you'd beat it to death w/ a mallet before it got built. So you have to wedge the loose joints to tighten them up during glue up.









Here it with wedges sawed flush and sanded ready for finish.









This was a rewarding project I really had to stretch my skill level to think this one through even with the help of Bob Lang's video I struggled at times.


----------



## ToddJB

Great job, Bondo. Looks awesome and challenging.


----------



## theoldfart

Bondo, great build. That article has been tempting me for some time. May have to try it this winter.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice design Bondo. I was working on a shop stool this weekend also, but mine has 4 legs. Not as difficult as yours. Just need to pin the joints and mount the seat. Mine is made more for utility and not as pretty as yours. Pics to follow soon.


----------



## CL810

Great work Bondo. The joinery looks absolutely perfect.


----------



## ShaneA

Sweet project Ron. Simple, but yet complex. Nice


----------



## CFrye

Really nice, Bondo! Thanks for the loose joint tip.


----------



## byerbyer

Very nice, Bondo!


----------



## CL810

Red that was a great video by Spagnoulo. He resaws to just over 1/8 with final thickness of 3/32.


----------



## Pezking7p

Bondo. That looks wicked. I love the color of the wood for the legs.


----------



## RPhillips

*Bondo* - Awesome work!

...now where's the pose? lol


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## BigRedKnothead

+1 on the stool props Bondo. Way to push yourself. Now you've got me wandering if I'd like that….or a Rogowski stool. Both have their challenges.



> Red that was a great video by Spagnoulo. He resaws to just over 1/8 with final thickness of 3/32.
> 
> - CL810


Glad it helped, I found it very informational too. Marc (thewoodwhisperer) has become on of my go-to's for how-to's. Imo, he has really done a service to this craft with all of his excellent videos. He freely admits most of his knowledge was acquired from his mentor David Marks. Cool! Thoughts how the ol' tree of knowledge branches out;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Oh ya, this is a nice book I picked up:








-
Ripley is another great furniture maker I added to our list. He loses me with some of his wild jigs, but I really like his designs. Especially these chairs:








-
I think it's a brilliant way to avoid the complicated angled mortise and tenon joints on dining chairs. Hard to see in this pic, but the little through tenons are wedged.


----------



## DaddyZ

Cool Stool Bondo


----------



## CFrye

"Design is a process of failure." 
Gary Rogowski 









Thanks for the reference, Red.
Edit: I just realized he is the one in Marc's jewelry box video I've been watching and getting ideas from!


----------



## theoldfart

Two things completed this week end.
A six-board chest started last year in a Chris Schwarz class, 95% hand tools ( including a 7' rip! ), 1" clear pine, nails are cut nails moulding done with a 405. Finish is 4 coats Danish oil and 5 coats wipe on poly


























This one is to complete the set for my granddaughter. She got the chairs at Christmas. White oak, danish oil, wipe on salad bowl finish. Not as much hand tool work. The legs are a glue up of four pieces and cut so the same grain is on all four faces.


















Also finished the Dutch Chest, pics in the chest of dreams thread


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## DanKrager

I don't care what the rest of them say, you do nice work, TOF! She's gotta be as pleased as you are! 
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Thank you Dan. Hey wait a minute, what DO the rest of them say? ;-(

Can't wait to see her, it's been a while. I Chat only goes so far.


----------



## john2005

A lot of production goin on. I dig it.

Question. I am gearing up to build a hall table. Planning on walnut and plum. I have an idea in my head that just needs some ironing. Question is, the mrs suggests 3 colors of wood not two. I'm a little hesitant on that but could see it working. Thoughts?


----------



## widdle

Plum wood..what what ?


----------



## bhacksaw

I'm building a bed from a WOOD Mag plan and on e of the more important lessons I learned was: If you're going to decide on using veneer on the panels, do so BEFORE routing your mortises. I got the notion, half way through the project, of using walnut veneer and had to widen all my mortises by a fraction of an inch. But, the bookmatch pattern I created makes it worth it. ...I think. I haven't done a dry-fit yet.

I also learned that yellow glue may not be the best for the iron-on technique. Any tips ofn filling cracks? The lightness of the birch color underneath really makes it stand out. I thought of woodfiller, but I'm not sure I feel comfortable sanding the veneer. If I stain with a gel, will that be good enough to cover it up?

The pic is the 3 footboard panels made from walnut burl veneer laying on top of the headboard panels made from walnut veneer.


----------



## jmartel

Filling the cracks: Try mixing epoxy or superglue with walnut dust to fill it in. Sand it flush and you won't be able to tell.


----------



## RPhillips

Oops… wrong thread

Nothing to see here people… move along…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

John- I don't see a problem with using 3 different species, when done right. Of course, I'd always rather somebody use a different species to get a look over staining wood to make it look like something it's not.

bhacksaw- Wow, beautiful veneers. Sounds like your experiencing some of the learning curves we all love. I'll second using walnut sanding dust with epoxy or superglue as a filler. Keep us updated on that project. Sounds killer.


----------



## john2005

Here's a widdle taste for ya Wid










Thanks Red for the affirmation. Still haven't figured out what the third would be in my scenario, but I am thinking lighter. Although, I do have some spalted birch. Dunno. Still gotta get the design where I want it.


----------



## widdle

Nice john..that stuff gots alot goin on, gonna make a nice table…Obviously cant tell from here but that plum and walnut sound perfect..


----------



## john2005

You shoulda seen it last year when I cut it open. It had red and purple streaks all through it. Beautiful stuff. I cut a few turning blanks and stuck a couple others in a spalt bath. The plan if it works is to make salt & pepper shakers from the spalted stuff for the friends who gave me the tree. If the spalt fails, I can shift to the clean ones and chalk it up to learning. They come out of the bath this week. That will be almost 11 months. If nothing's happened yet it ain't gonna.


----------



## CFrye

John, what are you using for your spalting bath? I just read about that last week and am intrigued. 3 woods could be real classy. Hard to recommend the third without actually seeing the first two and the proportions…which will be the predominant and which the accents. If you are a better planner than I, you could make a kind of story board with finished pieces (if you've got the pieces to spare) of the walnut and plum and hold others up to them.


----------



## DaddyZ

Finally Finished… Waiting on it's new daddy to pick-up…










Top view










Beginning Inspiration


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice work Pat. Was the matching of the grain on the drawer front intentional?


----------



## firefighterontheside

Hello all. I'm gonna read along for a while and maybe show you something ive made. Sadly I don't get to build as much true furniture as I'd like. I build what people ask for. Usually built in stuff and other cabinetry. I already see some great stuff. I want to build this walnut and maple butcher block cart that I saw, but I have nothing to do with it and no need for it. Hopefully something will come along.


----------



## john2005

That's hot Pat.

Candy, I used (if my memory is right) coffee grounds, ammonia, a bunch of wood chips for the brew to break down, molasses, and a couple beers. I opened it at about 5-6 months to add some sugar water. It was smelly so that's a goo sign. I'll let you know when I take them out. Just waiting on some Anchorseal.


----------



## DaddyZ

Yes Intentional on the Grain on the drawers

Welcome Bill


----------



## CFrye

Sweet DaddyZ!
"It was smelly so that's a *goo* sign." 
I love it when typo's are appropriate!


----------



## john2005

Ha ha ha. Caught me.


----------



## bhacksaw

Thanks, jmartel. PS - Badass butterflies!



> Filling the cracks: Try mixing epoxy or superglue with walnut dust to fill it in. Sand it flush and you won t be able to tell.
> 
> - jmartel


----------



## vikingcape

This bed is going to be pretty. The wife likes it so far


----------



## Hammerthumb

Just checking in. Nice work TOF, Daddy Z, Jmart! Cool wood Kaleb & Bhacksaw.

Carry on.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I recently acquired some Ipe that I plan to use on my outdoor furniture projects. This stuff is very hard, and has beautiful grain. I know Hammerthumb has used it on some furniture, but do people use this stuff for outdoor furniture mostly?


----------



## theoldfart

My deck is made from Ipe', rest of the outdoor furniture is Acacias I think.


----------



## Pezking7p

I think decks mostly, red.

Daddy, great final product.

Kaleb, is that from the same pile of wood as the dresser you did?

I have a question. The time for painting my cabinet frames and doors is coming up quickly. My face frames are not all perfectly flat. My plan is to paint the frames, then build boxes, then attach the frames to the boxes, then fit the doors and drawers, THEN paint the doors and drawers. Is this the right order??

Measly pics for your thoughts:


----------



## firefighterontheside

I would want to have everything built before I switched to painting. Are the carcasses gonna be painted? I guess if you're gonna spray the frames and not the cases then yes paint frames first. Wouldn't think it matters when you paint doors and drawers since they are separate from the cases.


----------



## firefighterontheside

By the way nice doors. Kind of like these.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Red - I think Ipe would make some fine outdoor furniture. I think joinery might be a challenge as fasteners are difficult to use on it. Think about using WO dowels instead of fasteners. Although urethane adhesive would be a good choice for its waterproof qualities, take into consideration it's foam expansion when using for MT or dowel joints. By the way, got that compass plane from Bob. I have not tuned it yet, but it would have been awesome to use on the legs you made.

Dan - I'm no expert on cabinets, but I think you have the right idea on assembly. Try to protect the paint of the face frames during assembly, but you can touch them up afterwards if needed.


----------



## theoldfart

Paul, maybe a pic of the compass plane over on the Plane dream thread? The tote for mine should be here tomorrow.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I'll try to get it posted tonight.


----------



## vikingcape

Red. Ipe is a very nice wood to use outside. My picnic table used was ipe. I through a circular saw blade into my table saw when I did all the ripping. That stuff is hard! I saw sparks. make sure you use blades you don't care about for the heavy stuff. I just used spar urethane for finish. seemed to do fine. Just thin the first coat 50% so it goes in. my cousin used it inside and did a blo finish and it looks beautiful.

Dan. That is a new batch I just bought. Same sawmill though. I originally wanted slabs for the head and footboard, but when I saw this I couldn't pass it up


----------



## Hammerthumb

TOF - posted a quick test run on the HPOYD thread. Had to do a quick sharpening job first. This thing is so cool!


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## BigRedKnothead

^Welp, now I really have to have one;-)

Pez- Are the inside of the cabinets not painted? Even still guys usually just tape/plastic off the insides of the cabinet. That said, I can see the advantage of your approach. I don't see any problem as long as your careful mounting the face frames.


----------



## Pezking7p

Hmmm, I hadn't thought about damaging the finish while mounting the FFs (or storing them while I build the carcasses). The biggest reason for me to paint prior to mounting is space/weight. I'll have to move an entire kitchen into and out of my shop to paint it, and my shop is about 75 feet from my house. Also, the insides are pre finished maple and the doors are full inset, hence my fitting concern. Thanks guys for all the input. I think I'll paint a test board and see if it cracks when I bend it slightly, as I'll have to manhandle a few of the frames into trueness on the carcasses.

That plane is sweet. Do you turn it around to always plane downhill?


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## BigRedKnothead

^Pez- flexing shouldn't be a problem with paint. I was more referring to clamps and such scratching your face frames. If the insides are prefinished maple, I think I'd spray the face frames separate too.


----------



## john2005

I've had my eye on those for a while Paul, just haven't found the right deal. Pretty sweet!

Little epiphany tonight. I was working on a saw till and I figured it would be a good opportunity to practice dovetails on a larger scale. I have been using BigRed guide and that has sped me up. I also have been changing up how I go about it just to find what works most efficiently. Tonight all I did was pins first. I have been doing tails first, most of the time cutting multiple boards at a time. It took way longer. I now understand the debate. Tails first for this guy.


----------



## ArlinEastman

Red made a cabinet for me and installed it in my shop. He did a swell job.
I hope he puts a picture of it here.


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## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Arlin. I'm glad you like it. Here's a shot of it in my shop:









And here's it installed in Arlin's shop. 









I really like shop cabinets to have sliding doors. Swinging doors just get in the way. I make these with aluminum u-track from the borg, and a 1/4 plywood spline.


----------



## CFrye

"and a 1/4 plywood spline"
Huh?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

hehe. Sorry, here's a shot that will 'splain ya. 









I just rip a kerf in the door and glue in some 1/4" ply. These are in my shop. I was able to find some narrower aluminum track for Arlins…so the doors would have less play.



> That plane is sweet. Do you turn it around to always plane downhill?
> 
> - Pezking7p


Ya Pez, as with any hand tool, you'd need to work downhill, then turn around and meet in the middle. Otherwise tearout city.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Sorry I missed that question Pez. Red is correct about the downhill part. I tried going uphill to see what it would do and did not get any tearout on this cherry, but it did chip out the end. Never used one of these before. It will be a great time saver for curved pieces. Wish I had it when I made that chest for the wife. the curved drawer faces would have only taken a couple of hours instead of the whole day. Knuckles still hurt from the spoke shave!


----------



## CFrye

Pictures! Thanks Red.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

If I remember correctly, LJ SCamps and a few others have one of these Delta lunch box planers. Well, if yours didn't come with a dust collection fitting, it's well worth the $30 to get the upgrade delta sells. Really, they should have come with one stock.









-
I've been reading a bunch of joinery books I borrowed from LJ Arlin. Some of the information I already knew, the rest I'm chucking at all the boneheaded mistakes I've made. Oh well.


----------



## jmartel

Final coat of Arm-R-Seal just went on the blanket chest tonight. After a few more days of curing, I'll rub some paste wax on it, install the hinges and call it done.


----------



## ArlinEastman

Red

No bone head about it. What you do not know you can find out. Glad you like my books and as you know I have a lot more.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Arlin. Now if I could just find a depth adjustment handle for that delta planer. Delta doesn't make that part anymore. Already tired of using vise grips (top left of pic).


----------



## byerbyer

I may be able to help Red. I had a that planer (or a very similar model) and the motor burned up so it's just a paper weight. I need to double check if it's made it to the scrap heap yet, but if the handle fits it's yours.
PM the model number and I'll check it out.


----------



## JayT

Red, if byer doesn't have the planer anymore (kudos to you for volunteering to help out, BTW) you can order a handle for a Porter Cable PC305TP planer. It's the exact same tool as the Delta TP305, just a different color gray.

When Stanley, Black & Decker was getting ready to sell of Delta, they took several of the Delta benchtop tools and started manufacturing them under the Porter Cable brand so that when Delta was sold, they could still legally manufacture and sell them.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Byer and Jay! The model number on mine is the TP300….but it looks to be the same thing as the Delta 305, and the PC 305TP.

Byer, lemme know if you still have it, otherwise I'll get a PC one order. Thanks.


----------



## byerbyer

Red, I still have it but it's a Model 22-540. Mikes Tools has a part (not sure if it's OEM) that says it fits both models. If you want to give it a shot I'll take it off and send it your way this weekend.


----------



## firefighterontheside

Red, how did you break that handle. When my shop used to look a lot like my garage, I had a place for the Dewalt planer on the floor right behind the truck. The rear bumper would just clear it, except if I left the handle up. It's pretty easy for an 8000lb truck to break that handle off. Used a pair of vice grips until I ordered a new part from black and decker.


----------



## firefighterontheside

Just remembered that I broke a handle on my delta mortiser. It's a spring loaded deal that engages the teeth to loosen the clamp that let's the fence go back and forth. I need to find one of those. Stupid design. I have no idea why it needed to be spring loaded. What are they trying to do, keep my toddler from using it?


----------



## lysdexic

It has taken me a couple days to get caught up from late June. Strong work and good content.

Some threads are too valuable to "post to get to the bottom."


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Glad your enjoying it Scott. There are some nice builds going on.

Bill- The planer was missing the handle when I got it. I work with guy who used to be a carpenter. He needed some help with his kitchen remodel and offered to pay me some of his old power tools and lumber. Fine with me. 
That delta planer works alright. It should hold me over until I can buy a bigger machine someday.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Hi Everyone,

I'm hoping it's ok for new people to join in! It took me over two weeks to read through all the posts, all 2931 of them to this point, so I feel like I'm getting to know everyone.

Here is my latest piece (because if there's no photo, it didn't happen, right?):










I love A&C, and G&G furniture, and want to begin working on two G&G nightstands. I'm having a little trouble getting started, because of all the jigs that must be made before beginning! I'm hoping to get motivated, and just make the jigs, and get started.

Looking forward to the days ahead!


----------



## jmartel

I suppose I should put a link in here as well. Finished up the blanket chest tonight.


----------



## jmartel

Dean, that looks like a very nice chair. I'm planning on building myself one as well, hopefully this winter, though mine will be in walnut.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Hello Dean. Welcome! 
Did you do the cushions yourself?


----------



## firefighterontheside

Great looking chair Dean.
Jmartel, that's a beautiful chest. I really like the butterfly shaped butterflies.


----------



## ShaneA

Good work guys.

Dean tell us more about the upholstery please.


----------



## Pezking7p

Chair looks great, and I spy a side table that has the same look to it!


----------



## kiyoshigawa

Dean, that chair is exactly the kind of thing I aspire to. I need to get cracking on all the other things I promised I'd do first so I can get to building one of my own. Well done.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Hey guys, thanks for the warm welcome!

I had the cushions done at a local upholstery shop. The good parts of having them made are that I got to pick out the exact fabric I wanted, and got to pick out the exact foam that I wanted for each cushion (different foam for each cushion.) The whole process took about three weeks, from taking the fabric swatches home, to picking up the chair from them. At the shop, I sat on several different types/firmnesses of foams, until I found the combination I liked best. So those were the good parts! The bad part-the price…......

Apparently, it's not the custom work, or the fabric that is all that expensive-it's the foam! So, if you go to get custom cushions made, be prepared for sticker shock!

At first, I thought I had over paid, but reading another morris chair project here on LJ's, the other guy had someone comment on his project, and mentioned that the foam is really expensive right now. Apparently it's not that much cheaper to make the cushions yourself, because it's the foam that's the expensive part.

So, anyway, that's all I can think of regarding the cushions. If you guys have any more questions, fire away!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Dean. Most of the chairs I've seen posted have gone the same route and have had the cushions made. Pinto Delux took a class and made his own. He did a blog about it. Very interesting stuff. I asked because I have a chair that is in need of new cushions. Have not decided if I will give it a shot. Thanks for
The tip on the foam. Great work on the chair! Hope to see more soon.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dean- Welcome to the forum, and the chair looks awesome.

Now I'm curious. For the chair in the OP, I was able to find able to find a small-time upholster who works out of his garage just like me. Of course he encouraged me to go with high quality foam. It ran about $100 for the two cushions…then the labor was on top of that. Is that about what the foam runs at an upholstery shop?

As a side note, my upholstery guy pretty much keeps in business replacing the foam and re-stuffing today's sofas and chairs. He claims that even furniture like Ethan Allen use cheap foam that breaks down after a few years.

And of course, the cushions on my morris chair are holing up much better that my furniture mart leather sofas.


----------



## CL810

Interesting bench I came across on Barron's blog by Brian Boggs.


----------



## JayT

^ I saw that post, too, CL810. Brian Boggs does some awesome work-very precise and elegantly understated. I would love to visit his shop someday.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice. That bench looks comfy!


----------



## CL810

I wonder if those curved boards are steam bent or laminations.

Ya JayT, my wife and I keep talking about an Asheville, NC trip but have not pulled the trigger. Got to do it.


----------



## jmartel

That bench is great. Not a fan of the chair though.


----------



## mojapitt

Dean, I really love the chair.

Blanket chest is awesome also. Trunks/chests for me are items that always sell.

very cool bench. From a distance I think that they are steam bent.


----------



## CL810

The chair is designed specifically for playing the guitar.

Do steam bent boards hold up outside?


----------



## Mean_Dean

Red,

Ok, here are the foam types and thicknesses for my cushions:

Seat cushion foam: Q26, 4" + 1" Q11 foam on each side, for 6" total foam.

Back cushion foam: Q11 foam, 6" total foam.

So check with your upholstery guy-but be sitting down when he gives you the prices!!

I guess it's a situation where you get what you pay for. Good quality foam that will last a generation just costs more. But I'll tell ya, it was worth it. That chair is the most comfortable chair I've ever sat in, and I know that the next generation will enjoy it too.


----------



## JayT

> Do steam bent boards hold up outside?
> 
> - CL810


I've been told that they don't (the board will try to return straight when it gets wet) and anything outside should be a bent lamination. I wouldn't question Boggs if he did it that way, though.


----------



## mojapitt

I understand the thought that they may straighten, but I would think that with finish and time they would stay bent.


----------



## ToddJB

I would think that it would not be able to straighten out. The pieces would be longer straight. Something else would have to give, right?


----------



## theoldfart

I would thnk the whole piece would warp


----------



## JayT

Easy solution, check Brian Boggs' webpage for the settee. According to that he uses stop cut lamination to create the curves.


----------



## CL810

That is a great video! Did you notice the former water hoses now used as flexible air hoses to create pressure in the clamping jigs at the 1:15 mark? That was interesting.


----------



## CL810

I almost hate to interrupt the Boggs discussion but I'm wondering what the group thinks of this.









The pic is the underside of a bench from a bedroom suite. Someone sat on it and the legs stripped out. No wonder, the metal bracket for the leg is just screwed into what looks like 1/4" plywood. I was going to drill out the screw holes to glue in a 3/8" dowel when I discovered the 1-1/8" cavity! WTH!?

Thoughts on repairing this? I could only come up with gluing a board across the underside for each pair of legs. It would raise the height a bit but I don't think it would be visible.


----------



## mojapitt

Certainly needs more support than it had.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Man that certainly is a hokey set up!

Well, if it is a bench, and people would be sitting on it, you need to make this set up much stronger.

A few thoughts:

-You could glue on another piece of 1/4" plywood to the underside, giving you 1/2" of material to screw those metal pieces into. Probably the least obtrusive looking of the repair options.

-You could glue and screw on say 1/2" strips of wood where the legs attach, instead of the plywood. More obtrusive, but should still work. Or maybe use a Forstner bit, the same diameter as the tops of the legs, and create a mortise in the 1/2" strips to glue the legs into.

-Or you could just tear the bottom out of that thing, and rebuild it properly. The most expensive and time consuming option!

Good luck, and keep us posted!


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen

That sure is a crappy construction.
Just a thought: Could using something like these work for a quick fix? http://en.unimat.ca/hardware/small-hardware/screws-and-bolts/drywall-anchors-and-other-anchors/hollow-wall-anchors.html
Should think that they would create a large area of pull from the inside..


----------



## CL810

And now, for the rest of the story…..

The bench was old furniture of my in-laws, that is now my son's and his family. Probably 60-70 years old. So my wife comes home and this ensues…

"Whatcha doing?"

"Thinking about this broken bench."

"That's not a bench."

"It's not?!?"

"No, that was a footboard from a twin bed that matched mom and dad's furniture. My dad slapped legs on it to have something to lay books and magazines on in his bedroom."

That changes everything. LOL


----------



## theoldfart

Under statement " My dad slapped legs on it" We can rebuild it !


----------



## Hammerthumb

Ahh - a priceless antique!


----------



## Mean_Dean

Ah yes, the Six Million Dollar Bench! We can rebuild it. Better. Stronger. Faster!

(Whatever happened to good TV shows….....? The world isn't the same without bionic heroes!)


----------



## DanKrager

Clayton, I'd consider cutting a strip front to back over where the legs reside just the width of the legs and glue and pocket screw in a plank to fill the void between the outer frame. The plank can be an appropriate thickness so the height isn't changed. Then screw the legs back in place. I'd further consider some bracing for the legs, maybe a pair of rungs. My first thought was some wrought iron rods welded to flats screwed on the under side, appropriate to the era. 
Good luck! Remind me not to sit on it…
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dean, something like Danger Will Robinson Danger !!


----------



## WhoMe

Interesting on the water hoses. in my Jr high woodshop, the instructor used an old fire hose to do the same thing when the class made recurve bows. Worked like a charm once he got the air pressure right. 
Like the design of the chair too…


----------



## Mean_Dean

Hey guys,

Well, I just picked up Marc Spagnuolo's book, Hybrid Woodworking from the library. Haven't read the whole thing yet, but have scanned through it, and read a few sections. His philosophy is why not have the best of both worlds? Use the best tool in every situation. More specifically, use power tools to rough mill, and get your work very close to the finish specs. Then finesse everything to perfection using basic hand tools.

Anyway, I'll keep you posted on the book as I read through it. Of course this means I may have to get some new tools…......


----------



## mojapitt

Making stools. These are the seats. 30 total, 26 with backs.


----------



## ToddJB

Monte, those are awesome. What method do you use to carve out the seats in mass production?

I was at the lumber yard yesterday looking at plywood and they had some beautiful Beetle Kill ply. I inquired about the price - $120 for a sheet of 3/4. I laughed. I could make 4×8 glue up of solid Beetle Kill for 1/3 of that price.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Hey Monte - can we get a side view? What angle do you have the back at?


----------



## mojapitt

I sell that much beetle kill pine for $48


----------



## mojapitt

I will get a side view picture. The back is at 5 degrees.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks for the info, and future posted side view.


----------



## mojapitt

I use a right angle grinder with Kutzall wheels for removing the bulk.


----------



## ArlinEastman

Dean

I would love to have a chair like yours but a rocker.

Jmartel

I agree that is a swell chest. When I get OK at woodworking my wife has wanted on for Well Years.


----------



## ToddJB

Kutzall - never head of it, but just googled it. That looks awesome. Do you get by with just one coarse, or do you go through multiple? Does it work faster than something like a belt sander would?


----------



## mojapitt

Way faster than a sander. I have 3 different wheels.


----------



## ToddJB

They're a little pricey, how do they hold up over time?


----------



## mojapitt

So far, fairly well. Main problem is pitch from pine plugging them.


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen

Interesting design. Shaping 30 chairs with an angle grinder sonds like A LOT of work.. Looking forward to more pictures!


----------



## jmartel

I would probably make a router jig for it, myself.


----------



## mojapitt

In the future I may find a different way. For now I am comfortable doing this. Sometimes the mess is part of the entertainment.


----------



## Pezking7p

> I wonder if those curved boards are steam bent or laminations.
> 
> Ya JayT, my wife and I keep talking about an Asheville, NC trip but have not pulled the trigger. Got to do it.
> 
> - CL810


Is that where his shop is? Wife and I have been meaning to get to Ashville ever since we moved to NC. Over two years and still never have. This would be a good excuse….

That boggs bench is one of those things that a normal person would walk right past, but a woodworker would stop and say "gosh, that's purdy. And a lot of work." It's funny how this hobby changes your perspective on furniture.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Pez,

If you get to Asheville, be sure to visit the Grove Park Inn They have some beautiful A&C furniture. And if you go, take some photos for the rest of us!


----------



## Pezking7p

> Hey guys,
> 
> Well, I just picked up Marc Spagnuolo s book, Hybrid Woodworking from the library. Haven t read the whole thing yet, but have scanned through it, and read a few sections. His philosophy is why not have the best of both worlds? Use the best tool in every situation. More specifically, use power tools to rough mill, and get your work very close to the finish specs. Then finesse everything to perfection using basic hand tools.
> 
> Anyway, I ll keep you posted on the book as I read through it. Of course this means I may have to get some new tools…......
> 
> - Mean_Dean


Red had this book, and traded it to me. I've ready 90% of it, but you've caught the gist of the book. Do the "hard" work with power tools, and use hand tools for fine work or for finessing parts to fit. I like that he goes through all the different tools, piece by piece, and says "you really ought to have this" or "this is pretty much a waste of your money unless you want it to hang on your wall and look pretty". He also offers several alternative methods for doing things.

Marc openly admits that he's not a very good woodworker, but a wise man once said that the best coaches are people with mediocre ability who tried like hell to get good. The only thing I don't like about marc is that his power tools are SO good, that he sometimes forgets not everyone has a perfectly tuned 8" jointer, or what have you.

Monte, have you ever tried the king arthur sculpting wheels? I saw charles neil use them on his video "scooping a chair seat" and thought they looked pretty much required if I was going to be making chairs. Nothing to clog as they are more like a chainsaw.


----------



## mojapitt

King Arthur and I are not friends. Caused stitches twice.


----------



## Pezking7p

Can you please explain in detail? This concerns me as I really wasn't kidding about buying them if I was to ever make a few chairs.


----------



## mojapitt

I assume that you are talking about the chainsaw heads. Unlike a regular chainsaw it has nothing to prevent kickbacks. You need strong wrists and good reflexes. It was too fast for me. First time was stitches in the hand. Second time was across the stomach. Not good.


----------



## Pezking7p

Seriously…this is not worth it. Did you have the kind of grinder with the extra hand grip at 90 degrees? If so, I won't even consider this. Sir Charles Neil makes it look very tame. I'm surprised they haven't addressed this by adding some kind of less aggressive chain or adjusting their little sandwich plates.

Thank you for the heads up.


----------



## mojapitt

I fully admit to not having the other handle on it. Most people seem to be fine using it. I only know 1 other person that has had a problem.


----------



## ToddJB

This is all good info. Thanks Monte.


----------



## Pezking7p

Monte, thank you very much for the honesty. This is not a safe hobby at the best of times. We need all the help we can get.

So, I'm still not 100% satisfied with my ideas for a tv stand/entertainment center. I'm researching various styles I like, and I came across this bookshelf which appears to be a direct ripoff of a thomas moser design. Or did moser rip of this design?










Here's a the moser piece:









It's difficult to tell in the pictures, but even the structural design is the same. Both feature a carcass that is suspended inside a frame using angle brackets. This makes me sad because I almost used that upside down arc design element in my tv stand.


----------



## SASmith

I use both the kutzall and the chainsaw type grinders.

I have never had an issue with the chainsaw head. 
The chain is supposed to slip between the two steel discs if you push too hard. Never had it happen though.
There are different tooth counts with more teeth being less aggressive.
I hold the motor in my right hand and the handle in my left.
I have made lots of bowls with them.
I would not let someone else use one in my shop though.
I would not run one without the handle.

I do like the kutzall heads too and they are much more safe. You can use them like you are grinding metal. Where the chainsaw type has to be perpendicular-ish to the work.

Harbor Freight also has a carbide head that is decent and I think worth the $15 to see if you like sculpting.

If I were to do a deeply sculpted seat(3"), like an antique tractor seat. I would go with the chainsaw type to get it roughed in, then kutzall, then 40 grit flap disc on the grinder, and finished with the ROS 40 grit to 220.
I would guess that the chainsaw type would save about 30 to 60 minutes of work. To most people that is probably not enough time saved to justify the possible risk.


----------



## ToddJB

Thanks Scott, I'll for sure check out the HF version.


----------



## ToddJB

http://m.harborfreight.com/4-1-2-half-inch-carbide-cup-wheel-66613.html

$10 and 5 stars. I'll be picking one up soon.


----------



## SASmith

Pick up a flap disc to fit your grinder in about 40-80 grit to do some clean up and you will be good to go.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Some great stuff today guys!

*Re: Power carving*

I haven't tried it yet, but I intend to give it a whirl when I attempt solid seat chairs someday. Looks messy, but fun. I know Marc Spagunolo is big advocate of the turbo plane:




-
...but wouldn't you know, the turbo plane is spendy. About $160.

As our buddy Monte found out, power carving can bite you if your not careful. (someone send Monte an extra grinder handle…hehe). There's was an accident I heard about some time back that involved a power grinder. Evidently this guy thought it might be a good idea to hold a power grinder in one hand, and a bowl in the other. He nearly paid with his life.

Do not look at this link if you have a weak stomach. Dude cut his neck pretty bad:
http://www.spswoodturners.org/carving-accident


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"A wise man once said that the best coaches are people with mediocre ability who tried like hell to get good. " 
-Pezking7p

I like that quote. Pretty much explains my endeavors in basketball and woodworking. My life makes so much more sense now….lol.

Pez- I do like that bookshelf you posted. The legs turned 45 degrees would add to the difficulty…..but also adds to the "wow" factor.

Last, the Grove Park Inn is on my bucket list. I have this book about it;









The history behind that place is pretty cool. Not to mention the A&C eye candy…


----------



## lysdexic

I grew up in Asheville. Family still leaves there. Yet, I've never been to the Grove Park. Go figure. Well, I guess one is not likely to stay in a hotel in the town they live - but still.

BTW - I planted my arse in that Boggs bench during WIA for quite awhile. It was well made and comfortable.


----------



## john2005

Good talk on the power carving. I almost pulled the trigger on one over the weekend, the king Arthur one. I held off for lack of knowledge. I do know when I sculpted those booster seats it took forever. I was using a 36grit, 3" air grinder. Luck for me toddlers have small patoots


----------



## Iguana

*Furniture Deconstruction*

*Warning: long and picture heavy post*

My wife bought a bedroom set 30+ years ago. Long before I met her. Fastforward to today, and she wants to repurpose the dresser as a vanity for the guest bathroom. And hey! I've got some tools!

The whole set was made from red oak, "custom" built to her specs. It has always served its purpose well, but today was the day it purpose started changing.

First, the before pic:









I'd already taken out the drawers before I realized I should get the camera out  The left and right drawer banks have flat fronts while the center bank has curved fronts.

Let's take a look at one of the drawers:









Note the construction. Plywood sides, back and bottom with a solid wood front. Rabbet and dado construction, stapled together. No glue apparent.

Note the finishing. Or rather, note the partial finishing.

The bottom:









Ah, the support blocks are at least glued in. With what looks like hot melt glue.

The curved front:









Looks to be steam bent, not laminated. Bandsaw marks in evidence on the bottom, although the top is finished.

Take the top off and look at the underside:









No finish, just some overspray. And rough milling still in evidence.

The frame under the top:









No allowance for movement across the width of the top. There is about 1/32" clearance in the screw holes, which is nowhere near enough. The holes show signs of deformation (couldn't get a good pic of that). The climate here is quite stable, moisture-wise, fortunately. In just about any other locale, there surely would have been some splitting.

Those center vertical supports in the front:









Cut too short and then shimmed. Nice.

The joinery for the side frames:









5/8" deep mortises with 3/8" tenon on one side and 1/2" tenon on the other?

How is it held together?









Looks like a little bit of hot melt glue again, with heavy use of brad nails to pin the joint. Actually, this is the only bit of hot melt glue I can find in the carcase. Every other joint looks like it is just pinned with brads.

Hard to see in the pic, but the panels are fit into the same 1/4" wide mortise. And then shimmed to press outwards.

And here's how the whole carcase frame is put together:









Lots of screws. Not just brads!

Even the center bumps are screwed on:









I took off the drawer guides, and screws are also used as drawer stops.









Looks like they've been pushed back a bit over time. I was wondering why the drawers were sitting back too far in the case.

Moving the case, I noticed that the verticals in the front were a bit loose. I tugged on one and it came off:









It was nicely-fit joinery. Tight bridle joints, held together with a staple at the back of each joint.

Let's look at the bottom apron detail. Yup, screwed in position.









A closer look at the front rails where the drawer guides attach:









Also contributing to the problem with draw fitment.

Looking at how the front rails attach to the sides.









Let's call it a pinned mortise and tenon joint!

The back is just stapled on, which actually works well. Other than the part where the staple misses the back.









Using some of my favorite tools:









Everyone should have a medieval weapon close at hand.

Get the back off, and the back frame is also pinned M/Ts. Just not quite aligned









Without the back, the carcase frame was just a loose, floppy mess. So I went to work pulling all the staples holding the thing together. Was a bit messy on the back:









But the front was a lot better.


----------



## Iguana

Starting this project, I hadn't planned on taking the whole thing apart. I was just going to take the top off, add some bracing for a bathroom countertop/sink, and convert the curved drawers below the sink to a flat door. Then refinish. Easy peasy.

But as soon as I realized that the thing was held together by screws, staples and brads, I couldn't let it pass. Took about 5 minutes to take all the screws out and maybe 2 hours to pull all the brads and staples. Oddly, the joinery is well-cut. Even after 30+ years, the tenons are reasonably tight in the mortises and everything aligns nicely. A shot glass full of glue would have made a big difference.

Seriously contemplated starting from scratch. Maybe $100 in wood and a day and a half of extra work to build something better. Much, much better. But I don't have that day and a half right now, and we have a deadline to get this installed. So it will be going back together - with glue.

And I'll probably keep it around, rather than replace it when I have the time. It'll bug me every time I look at it, but maybe it is a good reminder of everything not to do when a client asks me to build a custom, solid wood piece of furniture.


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen

Looks like a if-you-get-away-with-it-you-get-away-with-it furniture.. 
Think that you will be a happier man if you start from scratch


----------



## camps764

That is kind of crazy to see the joinery done up like that with no glue. I had a similar project on my bench a while back…small dresser. It was essentially the same deal…lots of good joinery throughout, but no glue and a lot of screws. I ended up having to break the whole thing down too, and rebuild it with screws.


----------



## Mean_Dean

I'm gunna have to agree with kaerlighedsbamsen, you'll be happier if you build a new one from scratch. You said it yourself, It'll bug me every time I look at it, so why put yourself that. Life's too short to start your day off in a bad mood!

Anyway, just my .02, brother!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Oh I don't know, if Mark was planning on using that as his master bedroom dresser for the rest of his days….then it might bug him. But just to re-purpose it in the guest room? Depends on how picky you are. It has a solid top and drawer fronts. I agree with Mark, it's peculiar how they took the time to mill some of the joinery correctly, but sped through the assembly.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Other news, I think I've resided to push back the outdoor furniture set I'm making til winter or spring. I've got a few commissions I need to make first, and it would just be depressing to finish an outdoor table and Adirondack chairs just in time to get snowed on.

This morning I finished the stand for my new lathe (the one I swapped LJ Arlin Eastman for). Pretty happy with it. It should open up some furniture making possibilities too. 


















Notice the bottom shelf is piled with chunks of railroad rail. Free weights;-)
Not sure how I'll trim the inside of the cabinet as of yet.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Love those railroad ties Red.

I have $5 on you finishing the outdoor furniture before Stef has his bench finished. Don't think anyone will take me up on that though!


----------



## jmartel

Why would I bet against you when it's a 99% certainty that he won't have it done by then?


----------



## theoldfart

^ I'm not saying nuthin'!


----------



## ArlinEastman

Red

You did a good job on the lathe bench. Come on over anytime to learn to turn.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Will do Arlin.

Next up I need to make a free standing pantry. Something kinda like this….









I've got it drawn up. It's kinda furniture, kinda cabinet making. The case will be maple ply, the face and doors solid maple. Here goes nothin.


----------



## mojapitt

Freestanding to me makes it more furniture than cabinetry. Like a hutch.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Your probably right Monte. I guess with the way it's constructed just feels more like a cabinet to me;-)


----------



## mojapitt

Would you consider an Armoire a cabinet or furniture? Shades of gray. All accepted.


----------



## lateralus819

Dan you should do a build blog, I think thatd be pretty neat to follow!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^hehehe. Well, a couple issues with that Kev….

1) I don't even know why I told my sister-in-law I would make it. Still working silly hours at my real job….so I'm just gonna bust this thing out. 
2) This will not be fine furniture. There will be a lot of plywood and some pocket screws involved…lol. 
You know me though. I can't leave well enough alone. I'm already considering some birds eye maple for the door panels… even though I didn't figure that in the quote.

As I've done in the past, I'll blog a step of the build that might help others…if I have time.


----------



## lateralus819

Thatd be stallar. Have fun with it!

I hate having a dry fit go well then get glue on and its balls to the walls.

I made my rabbets too tight so they swelled a bit oops!

Also! Sweet news. My wife picked up a perfect glue spreader with a thin metal handle. I made a wooden handle earlier. Will post pics soon.


----------



## Iguana

Red, what's your plan for handling the large side pieces? I did a freestanding bookcase with doors, approximately the size of that pantry, and the sides were a major PITA.


----------



## Iguana

Red had it right - if I was going to look at it every day, I'd build something better. But it is going into the guest bathroom. I can close the door if necessary 

The irony about that is that it was the bedroom dresser for the last 18 years. I did see it every day, but the joinery didn't bother me. I guess not knowing is sometimes better…


----------



## Iguana

*More Deconstruction*

Once the piece was in pieces, I proceeded to strip the finish using a card scraper, cabinet scraper and smoother.









The first piece was easy









But as it turned out, I mostly used the card scraper. The pieces were generally too unflat to use anything with a bed, and I really don't need to make them flat. Along the way, I encountered planer/sander tracks









and lots of snipe









Needed to fix a few spots where I was less than gentle pulling out staples:









Check out the glue spreader 









And had to patch the holes in the front horizontals where the "bumps" were screwed on. Just wood filler on this one. No way I'll take the time to cut plugs 









My wife wants me to get rid of the overhang so it can fit snug into a corner. The solid wood top is being replaced by granite or something so I don't worry about that. But I do need to cut down the subframe under the top.










It is easy to see where I should cut it to be flush with the outside of the legs. Only problem is the screw holes for mounting the top are right on the line! So I make the executive decision to leave it with a bit of overhang in the front. That'll be hidden by the new top anyways.









On the sides of the subframe, I have another issue:









Mortises, oh yeah! Also another issue. I have a SawStop and those staples are mighty close to the blade. I make the rest of my cuts with the brake deactivated. Good thing, too, as I managed a couple of sparks.

I cut off a bit more and then glue on a strip to cover up the edge of the mortise.









That strip gets flushed to the subframe and then trimmed to flush with the legs.

And finally, here are all the pieces (except for the back and top). Hard to imagine that is a dresser carcase.









About 15 bdft in total.

Sand and reassemble tomorrow. Maybe finish it over the weekend.


----------



## theoldfart

^ spammer?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, what s your plan for handling the large side pieces? I did a freestanding bookcase with doors, approximately the size of that pantry, and the sides were a major PITA.
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Well, the sides will be maple ply. I'd like to use solid, but just not in the budget. The cabinet I'm making will only be about 30" wide. Hopefully it'll go alright. I plan on 1/2" ply on the back and a face frame for strength.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Hey Red, I'm assuming those will be inset doors. What kind of hinges will you use? They look like they will have to carry a lot of weight with the additional storage on the doors.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice work on that rebuild Mark.

Paul- actually I'm mixing it up with some partial overlay doors. I'll probably use euro hinges. And you're right, I probably better beef them up a bit. My sister-in-law is pretty spicy;-)

Gonna attempt a lumber run tomorrow. Tried earlier in the week, but my lumber guy was getting all of his teeth pulled. lawl. I guess you gotta roll with it when you lumber dude is in his late 70's.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Good luck on the lumber run. My lumber guy called me yesterday, but he just wanted to show me his new car.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Well, just finished up my bathroom trays project. It' be nice having them in the bathrooms, instead of those old basket-style trays!

The project is posted here if you'd like to take a gander!


----------



## Mean_Dean

Big Red One,

I just picked up that book on the Grove Park Inn from the library today. Some beautiful photos of some beautiful furniture!


----------



## jmartel

For the Arts & Crafts lovers on here, I recently found the American Bungalow magazine. Lots of really good ideas for inspiration in there. It's a home design magazine, so nothing related to woodworking other than showing off stuff that can be bought, but they also have a lot of advertisers for hardware and other things.


----------



## ArlinEastman

I went with Red on his Lumber Run. Boy o boy that guy has LOTS of lumber. You should have seen the Birdseye maple, curly red oak and a lot of other curly woods.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dean- Pretty neat book ehh? I dig the history. Makes me want to visit that place.

Jmart- Thanks for the magazine lead. My wife and I would love to own a Bungalow.

Arlin's right, I had to the chance to show him my favorite lumber source. There's never enough money to buy it all, but I snagged a good load of bird's eye maple. I'll be using some of it on my current pantry build. 








The case is underway:


----------



## jmartel

I don't think I would subscribe to it, Red, but if you have a Barnes & Noble by you, stop in every now and then and thumb through it. Buy one or two magazines and call it good.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Jmartel, I took your suggestion, and checked into American Bungalow.

It's published four times per year (each season), and is available for check-out at the library (at least my library system.) I've ordered the previous three issues, plus the current issue, and will let you know how I liked them!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Red, what is the finishing process your going to use for the pantry cabinet?


----------



## Hammerthumb

By the way, I was going to post pictures of the stool I made for my shop. My wife got tired of me borrowing a chair from the dining room every time I was cutting DTs. So here is what I came up with one Saturday morning.










Sprayed some shellac for a quick finish, but did not like the way it came out. I polished it out with a pad and some alcohol, but got a little carried away.



















Half a day to fabricate, and 2 days finishing. Nothing fancy, but it will just be used for close up work at my bench.


----------



## theoldfart

Thinking maybe the whole body slides when you saw  as in pretty slick!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Yeah - didn't put any wax on it for fear of a shop accident ;-)


----------



## mojapitt

Quite a shine on your stool. Looks nice.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Monte. It wasn't my intent. Sprayed it, but it was so hot in my shop that the finish textured a little. Polished it out with a pad, but think I need to used some steel wool to knock some of the shine off.


----------



## SASmith

I just stumbled across a short video of a woodworker local to me.






Pretty good stuff.


----------



## chrisstef

The backside of your levi's will knock down the shine in no time.

"Gotta let your stool shine. Better than sunshine, better than moonshine and damn sure better than rain"


----------



## ToddJB

I've heard that you can't polish a turd - but this obviously doesn't carry over to stool.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Too funny Todd!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Paul- the finish plan is my usual satin poly. She wants it light colored, hence the maple. I'm a big believer in using the appropriate species to get the color/look you want. As opposed to staining wood to look like something it's not.

Nice job on the stool. The finish is over the top for a shop stool…lol.


----------



## jmartel

> Paul- the finish plan is my usual satin poly. She wants it light colored, hence the maple. I m a big believer in using the appropriate species to get the color/look you want. As opposed to staining wood to look like something it s not.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


This. I have stained a total of 1 project ever so far, and I intend to keep it that way.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I am not a big fan of staining, but dying figured wood is another story. Was just wondering how you will enhance the birdseye on the cabinet?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I agree about the dyes Paul.

I know she wants to keep it light, so I was thinking about trying some clear danish oil on the bird's eye door panels….hoping this will help. I know it helps on curly cherry.

Also, the reason I've been quiet the last week or so….
http://lumberjocks.com/BigRedKnothead/blog/42674


----------



## Hammerthumb

Lookin forward to some progress pics. Just remembered that I have A few pics to post of my wife's new kitchen island I just started. I'll try to get them up tonight.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Been looking through the Grove Park Inn A&C furniture book, and have really enjoyed seeing all the beautiful furniture!

But I've noticed that the furniture is not perfect. Some of the close-up photos show minor imperfections like dowels not sanded flush, or the dowel not fitting into the hole perfectly. Or the fit and finish just a little flawed.

So seeing that even Gustav Stickley's furniture isn't perfect makes me feel a little better about my own furniture's imperfections. I suppose that I should just do my best, and call it a day. That it's never going to be perfect, and that well-executed is good enough!

I guess Gustav Stickley was good therapy tonight…........!


----------



## dbray45

The more you pay attention and the more you do, the better you will be.

A friend gave me a table that he bought many years before. It was always missing the drawer. The long and short of it, I made a new drawer for it. After close examination, rebuilding the drawer runner that was missing, looking at the rest of the construction, this was a very old table that was hand made by someone that woodworking was a requirement, not a profession or passion. The joinery was crude and sloppy but they needed a table for their lamp or candle. The pine top was nailed on and hand planed, the bottom was sawn by hand, judging by the saw marks, etc…

The drawer that I made was a hand made dovetailed drawer and the dovetails turned out really nice. The problem was that they didn't align with the aesthetics of the table, they were too good. To make the drawer fit aesthetically, I made the joinery look a little sloppier but tight, left a couple of plane marks in the bottom of the drawer (it was planed down by hand) and the sides, etc…

My friend took the fixed table and drawer to an old barn, got some of the dust and dusted a little into the new wood to give it a little patina, spilled a little black ink in the drawer to give it a little character and then took it to an antique dealer. The dealer thought it was the original drawer but noted the repaired drawer runner - that would account for the drawer patina aging differently. He loves the table.

My point - sometimes it is better if it isn't prefect.

Love what you do, do what you love, it will be obvious to those who receive it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Fellas. Reminds me of a Gary Rogowski quote I recently read:

"The curious mind is an active one. A student came by to ask what he would know after one class. I could only smile and say that the world of woodworking is very large. How much can one learn in one sitting, in one class, in one life? As much as one can. With still much more to know."

Here's my first blog on my current build. 
http://lumberjocks.com/BigRedKnothead/blog/42686


----------



## CL810

A while back I had some questions about resawing and veneer. I'm making a blanket chest and right now I'm going to use veneered plywood for the panels. Finally got some time to do a practice board. I set up the bandsaw for a 1/8" cut.









The fence I made, ala Spagnoula, worked well I believe. The variance on the boards was .03" (.10 - .13). From a 10/4 rough sawn board I ended up with 11 veneers.









I used the Woodslicer blade from Highland Woodworking in Atlanta. I think it did a great job. After running the veneers through the planer I ended up at .08" thick veneers. I only had a few mishaps.









This only happened with two of the boards. The first time it happened it tore out on the leading edge. After that I made sure to lift up the trailing edge a few inches once the rollers engaged. The second board I fed into the planer with the grain going the wrong direction.


----------



## jmartel

Your planer goes down to 0.08"? Or did you make a sled for it to ride on so you can go lower? Mine stops at 1/8"


----------



## CL810

Jmartel, I made a sled. It doesn't slide with the wood so maybe it should be called a bed.


----------



## jmartel

That's what I thought. On my very long to-do list of things to make. And nice rhyming there.


----------



## CL810

> ....long to-do list of things to make.
> 
> - jmartel


It's weird, but for this project I've made 4 jigs that have been on my list for a long time; taper sled, resaw fence, planer bed, and shooting board. Don't know how I made do without them.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I need to make a couple of those yet Andy. Just yesterday I was wondering how I ever worked without a shooting board.









Glad to hear of the success with the veneers.


----------



## ToddJB

Per a convo a few weeks back about power carving. I picked up the HF grinding cup, and I freaking love it. And I love power carving. It's really fun. Super messy. Only thing to be cautious of is it's really easy to get into it and forget you have a flesh eating grinder in your hands.


----------



## mojapitt

I will be carving a group of stool seats over the next few days. The mess is kinda fun.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Big Red One,

I found your next project.

Check out the August, 2014 edition of Popular Woodworking #212. It has a Stickley No. 624 wardrobe project you're gunna like!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

This one….









I do like it. I think we're gonna do another style in our bedroom though. We've got Craftsman style throughout the rest of the darn house;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I made an executive decision on the current piece. No more baskets or wood totes on the bottom half. Nope, just 3 full width drawers. 









I ordered some bottom mount full extension slides. Never tried those. Gettin crazy up in here.

Also, I was a little skeered about working hard maple with hand tools. I've had trouble in the past, but I must be gettin better.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Red - what kind of slides? The kitchen island I'm making will have 2 pullouts for the trash can and aluminum can recycling. I have never used full extension bottom mounts. Need to do some research.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Paul, I ordered these undermounts:

http://www.cshardware.com/39-3300-12.html

I've been ordering my hardware from cshardware.com lately. Been happy with them so far. They've got all kinds of options.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Mine will need to be a bit deeper. Thanks for the info. I'll check them out.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, they've got all sizes. I've never tried Blum, or any of the other premiums slides out there Probably should. I've been happy with their brand of slides thus far.


----------



## jmartel

That's who I ordered my slides for my end tables from. I haven't assembled the tables yet, though. Hoping to do so in the next week or two.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Don't worry Jmart. Your still on track to finish well before Stefs bench!


----------



## Pezking7p

I've done a fair bit of planing on soft maple for the cabinets and I've found it pretty nice to work. Properly set chip breaker pretty much cured all ills.

Never heard of csh. Cheaper prices on slides than the accurides I bought. Have to check them out in the future.


----------



## byerbyer

I'm curious to hear how those slides hold up BRK. The cabinet shop I work for uses Grass and Blum pretty much exclusively with some Knape & Vogt or Accuride on occasion. I like Blum for the fact that if anything (literally anything) goes wrong with a guide (or hinge for that matter) they'll replace it, no questions asked. My only complaint is they don't always have the size you need in the undermount verity…

That being said, when it's my money buying the guides for my shop cabinets I've opted for some import Knape & Vogt knock-off guides that have worked well. They also do see the amount of use a kitchen cabinet does either


----------



## Mean_Dean

Been perusing through the American Bungalow magazines I picked up from the library on Monday, and I gotta say, there are some beautiful pieces of furniture, and houses that contain them. And there are a lot of previously unknown to me home builders that build Craftsman style homes. There is one house that I could have sworn was Greene & Greene in Pasadena, that wasn't!

It's wonderful seeing all that beautiful furniture, and interestingly, all the ads in the magazines are A&C furniture/lamps/clocks, too. Even Darrell Peart (a fellow LJ) has an ad!

Anyway, if you like drooling over beautiful furniture in beautiful homes, take a trip to your local library and take home a few issues!


----------



## Mean_Dean

Almost forgot to mention: Phil Franklin has a beautiful Stickley bookcase on the projects page.


----------



## Brit

Regardless of whether you like the style of furniture or not, you've got to take your hat off to these guys.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Yikes Andy. Thanks for sharing that. Sweet.

My lastest furniture making blog is up. It's not nearly as cool as that video;-)
http://lumberjocks.com/BigRedKnothead/blog/42757


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## Wally331

Thats great to see that Brit, I didn't even know of that companies existence. I'm sure there's quite a price tag that comes with a piece of furniture of furniture from them. I'd love to have a Doucette and Wolfe style company.

I had a cheap half inch bandsaw blade that never performed well at all. I figured that maybe maybe my bandsaw was underpowered or something of the sort. However I used my hand-crank grinder to sharpen it this weekend. It was a huge revelation for me. Even using a very coarse wheel (something like 80-100 grit) I was able to cut through 6 inch mahogany and maple like they were nothing at all. I'll be making bookmatched panels like crazy now. I just touched the outside of each tip lightly with the grinder, making sure I didn't mess with the positive rake on the teeth or anything. Only took about 20 minutes, will be using this technique from now on for sure!


----------



## wormil

That's very cool if true (Theodore Alexander). Hate to be pessimistic but I don't trust anyone's advertising these days. Looked up their prices and they are lower than I expected.

http://www.swanns.com/Theodore-Alexander-Pattern-Underfoot/10150-991/ItemInformation.aspx


----------



## john2005

Wally, not sure I follow. I have a few blades that would be useable if sharper, but not sure how it's done. Anyway could you elaborate on what you did? If I ruin a dull blade, it's not the end of the world, but if I could get them sharp, I'd be money ahead. Thanks!


----------



## Mean_Dean

Hey Guys,

Just finished Hybrid Woodworking by Marc Spagnuolo. A very good book for power tool woodworkers! He suggests some basic hand tools from router planes, to rabbeting block planes, to card scrapers, to dovetail saws as good hand tools to begin with. It's an easy read, and not too long. It should be available at your local library (it was at mine), and I think it's well worth your time to check out!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Rick M.- the prices are a bit suspicious. Is that stuff made overseas?

Wally- I've only seen bandsaw blades sharpened with a multi tool. Do share.

Dean- I too think Marc did a nice job with his Hybrid Woodworking book. I recommend it to people often. The part I really like is….even though he has a decked out power tool shop, he acknowledges the times when a hand tool is more suited for the job. Feels like his journey is similar to mine.

That said, I own and use more hand tools that Marc….but that's just because I enjoy them.


----------



## CL810

I'm pretty pumped right now. The vacuum bag I ordered arrived today. Also finished milling, jointing and book matching the veneer and making the platens.










I'm going to use an old HVAC vac pump that's "suppose" to be up to the job. It will save me $300 - $400 if it works.

*Question for the panel:*

How long should flat veneers stay in the vacuum bag. 4 hours long enough??


----------



## Wally331

Here is the technique I used to sharpen the blade. I think that if i had a powered grinder with a very fine wheel the results would be even better. Still with my hand crank it worked amazingly well. 




I'm soon to be starting on a corner cabinet build from cherry, all hand tools. Something like this, with just a few design changes. Namely a small open gallery, just tall enough for maybe a plate stood vertically or a nice water pitcher. What do you guys think on arm-a-seal as a finish? I think I'm going to leave the wood natural (no stain), I think that maybe 2-3 coats of arm-a-seal would look good and not have too much build up. The rest of the dining set is fairly contemporary but would match well with the cabinet. I can't imagine any sort of gloss looking good on it though.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Clayton- I have no imput with the veneer action….never done it. I'm still stoked for you venturing into new territory.

Wally- Thanks for the bandsaw sharpening link. I had no idea. 
Also excited for your cherry cabinet build. I think it's great your not staining the cherry….that's my preference. Arm-r-seal will be a good finish. With our dining set and hutch, I used a coat of natural colored danish oil, followed by coats minwax satin poly. On my test board, the danish (probably BLO therein) seemed to give the grain more depth. You can try that and see what you think. Just make sure to let danish oil dry 72 hours before applying poly or arm-r-seal. 
I bet you'll be happy with the finish either way.


----------



## Pezking7p

That furniture is definitely made overseas in a mind bogglingly huge factory. Regardless, you have to respect the work they are doing, breaking eggshells by hand? Hand carving wax pieces to do lost wax casting? It's enough to make a guy want to do some backyard casting of hardware.


----------



## CFrye

Wally, great link on the bandsaw blade sharpening. So easy even this cave woman can do it!


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, that's some pretty good sized pieces your veneering. How big's the bag? Are you using tite bonds cold glue?


----------



## CL810

I agree Dan. I'd love to learn how to do castings. But I probably should learn to carve first!


----------



## CL810

*Kevin*, the bag is for projects up to 4' x 6'. The board I'm veneering for this project is 40" x 56" that will be cut to make 6 panels for a blanket chest. I'm going to use Titebond's Extend glue I had leftover from my bench build. Not heard of their cold glue - gonna look that up. Have you?


----------



## john2005

Thanks Wally. That looks super easy!


----------



## theoldfart

Andy , I've just seen ads for it, no experience with it. I was looking for opinions .


----------



## Pezking7p

> I agree Dan. I d love to learn how to do castings. But I probably should learn to carve first!
> 
> - CL810


I actually took a casting class in college, we learned about mold design and had labs for both lost wax and sand mold castings. No forced die casting or anything fun like that, though. Just low temp/low energy stuff. However, lost wax is easy to do at home, just need some wax and some plaster of paris, and a crucible of some kind.

Wally, love the piece. Poly is a fine finish. I used watco rub on satin poly, it was extremely forgiving and easy to apply. I'm sure arm-a-seal would perform similarly. Finish is beautiful. So, if you use solid wood for the carcase, how do you join the carcase? The top/bottom will expand at a different rate than the sides. What about the back corner? Does it meet at a point or have a thin strip in the back? This piece is more difficult to design than it appears.


----------



## ToddJB

Thanks for the link, Wally. I never considered sharpening my bandsaw blades. I viewed them as disposable. I will for sure give this a try.


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, one of my former companies did sand casting ( cope and drag) . The castings weighed up to 1,000 lbs, and made a lot of noise when they were dropped on the dirt floor to loosen the sand inside. Worst thing was when they closed the foundry they threw out all the patterns and molds.


----------



## Pezking7p

It would have been cool to follow a metallurgical career. I chose the electronics side of my education whih also didn't pan out and now I'm in the paper industry, somehow!


----------



## theoldfart

Ran envelope converting machines for thirteen years. Started with die cut ended with web fed.


----------



## Pezking7p

Ahh, a man who understands my business, somewhat. We coat paper rolls with silicone. So I'm kind of a web handling and coating expert, at this point.

Do you rand die cutters and folders? In-line? I bet that was cool equipment.


----------



## CL810

Well here's the work in process.










About 30 minutes after turning on the vacuum the flexible coupler crumbled apart. Scrambled to take it apart and jerry rig a "quick" fix that took about an hour. While fixing the vac pump I set my tool chest on top to keep pressure on the veneer. Ran smoothly for about 1.5 hours and then the "fix" broke. Oh well, let's see how it turned out.










It's probably a good idea to wax the melamine platens *before* the glue up.

Called a supply shop and I'm picking up a new coupler tomorrow a.m. And should be able to get the veneer done this weekend.


----------



## CL810

A few minutes with a card scraper and all is good.


----------



## Mean_Dean

I'm actually surprised you'd have to wax the melamine. Isn't the point of melamine that nothing sticks to it?!

Of course, if that's the case, you could just use wax paper under the melamine and save yourself an hour's work waxing it….....!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Lookin good Andy. I heart card scrapers.

Got some solid shop time today myself. Way back DanK noted how you can touch up router bits with a diamond sharpener. Yep, it works.


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, I gotta confess that I cringed when I saw the picture. What I envisioned first up was vise marks on the shaft, making rough spots that could damage your collet. Then I said to my self, "Self? He's more careful than that!". 
Kudos on following through. It does make a difference. And it can be done several times without harm if you work only on the face of the cutter. 
Looks like a chamfer cutter. More furniture?
DanK


----------



## lateralus819

Pfft that router bit is brand new, don't let him fool you!


----------



## DanKrager

Lat, check your email.
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> BRK, I gotta confess that I cringed when I saw the picture. What I envisioned first up was vise marks on the shaft, making rough spots that could damage your collet. Then I said to my self, "Self? He s more careful than that!".
> Kudos on following through. It does make a difference. And it can be done several times without harm if you work only on the face of the cutter.
> Looks like a chamfer cutter. More furniture?
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


hehehe. Always lookin out for me. The bit was clamped in there pretty lightly. Enough that I had to steady it with my hand when touching it with the diamond file. I should probably protect it next time. I was even sure at the time that I would be able to save the bit;-)


----------



## jmartel

Red, next time drill a 1/4" or 1/2" hole in a block of wood, then rip the block down the center of your hole with the bandsaw. Use those as clamping pads. It will prevent it from moving, and the wood will dent instead of messing up the shaft.

You could even do one block with both holes in it so that it works with both sized bits


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Frustrating morning in the shop. Darn miters and crown molding. I went to the trouble to bring my miter saw in from the shed. By the time I realized my ridged miter saws 45 setting is NOT 45 degrees, I'd ruined the crown molding I had milled up.

Very frustrated. Yelled at one of my kids when they were being obnoxious. Felt bad, apologized.

Refused to let that crown molding kick my butt. Eventually, I prevailed.


----------



## DanKrager

Bless your heart, BRK. Good on you for the apology.
Yah, that's frustrating to find the angle off too late. BTDT many times. It's salvageable if you catch it first cut, which is what happens when you cut-fit, cut-fit, cut-fit. A degree or two isn't going to detract from the appearance of your finished joint. My old Swedish mentor taught me a LOT about such recoveries because I screwed up so much! That's where I learned to carefully apply planes to the joint…a bit of touch up sanding after assembly to true the molding profile to the joint if needed. Done.
That's going to be a beaut! 
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Dan. Usually I have a pretty good system for miter fits. However, with the angle being so far off, I wound up with the long center (double miter) piece a bit short. Argh. Had to mill up more molding.

Such is this craft. I hung up my apron to spend the rest of the day with the fam.


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, one of the tricks my mentor taught me was to take the rabbet plane (or similar) and cut a shallow dado for the molding to nestle in. You can "shrink" the top double miter dimension by almost 1/4" that way with no one but you the wiser. Future reference, I guess.
I remember seeing him add a standing bead piece under the molding because the dado was going to be too deep.
DanK


----------



## CL810

Good call Red. Wood will always be there.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> BRK, one of the tricks my mentor taught me was to take the rabbet plane (or similar) and cut a shallow dado for the molding to nestle in. You can "shrink" the top double miter dimension by almost 1/4" that way with no one but you the wiser. Future reference, I guess.
> I remember seeing him add a standing bead piece under the molding because the dado was going to be too deep.
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Brilliant! I'm filing that one in my noodle.


----------



## upchuck

DanK-

Double Yes. That is one of those brain dead simple solutions to fix a common problem that would have eluded me for years if you hadn't had said it. Thank you.

chuck


----------



## CL810

Not 100% sure this applies in this situation but shaving the inside of the moulding in effect "lengthens" the trim.


----------



## DanKrager

Cl810, my mentor, whose name was also Dan (Peterson), would have been proud of you. That, too, is brilliant. 
DanK


----------



## CL810

Lol Dan. I can't take credit for it. I learned it from Chris Gochnour at Marc Adams school of woodworking.


----------



## DanKrager

You realize, of course, that we are delving into the dark arts of the ancient woodworkers…

DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

You guys crack me up.



> Not 100% sure this applies in this situation but shaving the inside of the moulding in effect "lengthens" the trim.
> 
> - CL810


To be honest, I thought that's what DanK was getting at the first time….taking some off the trim to make it "longer."

We're reminding me of the songwriter who said, "He puts his heads in his hands, and says I gotta put heads together." lol


----------



## Pezking7p

I have no idea about crown moldings, but I'm logging all this in my noggin for when I need it.

If you nestle the trim in a dado, doesn't that inset the bottom of the molding?


----------



## DanKrager

Pez, yes it does, but it is not usually noticeable if one does a good job. That's why if the dado is deep, a beaded strip laid at the bottom of the molding conceals that.
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I didn't use any rabbets or dadoes on this crown. I installed some gussets like this:


----------



## jmartel

Well last night I started making a push to actually finish up my end tables. Started the sanding process, but wasn't able to sand everything to the first grit before I had to call it a night. Lots of parts to sand. With any luck I'll be able to start putting finish on tomorrow night and maybe have them assembled by Monday or so. Then I will be officially 100% caught up on work and can focus on making things for the shop.


----------



## Iguana

Got the bathroom vanity rebuilt (mostly) and in place.

The only structural changes I made to it was to add some additional bracing across the top to help distribute the weight of the countertop. Half-blind dovetails cut on the bandsaw:









And inlet into the top rails. Sockets roughed out with a router, finished with a chisel:









For finishing, I decided to pre-finish all the pieces before assembly. Small pieces are easier to manage!









The finishing schedule was:
- Sand to 220
- Apply base stain. (waterbased, Saman Urban Grey)
- Seal with shellac
- Apply top stain (oilbase gel, Old Masters Spanish Oak)
- Spray lacquer (Valspar Valtec)

It produceds a rich dark grey color that is warm without any underlying red tones.

Here's the assembled skeleton:









As there will be a sink in the middle of the top, I built half a box from melamine to be inserted where the middle drawers used to be. This will give a bit of water protection for the area where the plumbing goes. Plus maybe be able to store something there.









And with the countertop, sink and drawers:









I'll be adding the door and fake drawer front in a few days. They're in clamps in my shop at the moment. They were built from the old top of the dresser - the thing at least had a sold wood top. Needed to get this reassembled in order to get measurements for the new parts.


----------



## ToddJB

Looks great, Mark. I converted a double sink for our basement and it sucked. Ha. I had to shorten the drawers to accommodate the plumbing.


----------



## jmartel

Mark,

Before you attach the fake drawer front, give some thought to hinging it at the bottom and making a small tray that is attached to the back of it. Useful for storing some small items. No use in wasting space if you don't need to. Easier to add it now than in the future.


----------



## CL810

^ Smart.

Made the legs today for the blanket chest project.. More time was spent working out the proportions and making the jigs for these legs then it took to make them.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Mark, looks like she's coming along nicely!

Also, how were your results with putting the stain over the shellac? How does it compare to staining just the wood?


----------



## Iguana

*Jeff*, I did think of that. But it is a vanity for the guest bathroom. Can't imagine anything we'd need to store there and I don't want guests to forget something. (Or leave us a surprise 

*Dean*, there is a stain under the shellac, too. It is the combination of layered stains that makes the finish work the way it does, with the shellac serving as a barrier to prevent the second finish from peeling off the first during application. It is a fairly standard technique, often seen in mission-style furniture.


----------



## Iguana

*Todd*, I really like the wall-mounted faucet concept. Didn't have the foresight to pull that off with this vanity, but I'm filing it away for future use.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice work Mark. Thanks for taking us along for the ride. I don't think I'll give my wife ideas with recent posts though;-)

I'm still chipping away on the pantry cabinet. Made the drawers today. Hoping they install well. I think the undermount soft close will be a nice touch. I admit I panicked a little when cshardware.com sent the slides without any installation instructions. I gave them a call and the emailed me some. Also, I found a nice article on finewoodworking.com

Really, all I have left are the doors. I did talk my SIL into letting me add some color. Meaning, I'm gonna try some dye on the birds eye maple door panels and drawer fronts in hope to give them depth. I've never done this before, but whatever…. I'm scrappy.


----------



## jmartel

Lots of parts to sand. There's 36 spindles, for instance.


----------



## Iguana

^ That's a lot of tenons to cut!


----------



## jmartel

It's taken me 2 nights to sand everything to 100 grit. And I'm going all the way up to 220 on everything, so I'll be sanding for a while. Granted, it's only been about an hour each night, but still.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Why don't you bust out the smoothing plane jmart? Walnut planes nicely.


----------



## BTimmons

+1 on the smoothing plane advice. Even with that many parts, you'd be done in an hour provided your iron is nice and sharp.


----------



## jmartel

Don't have a smoothing plane. Plus, most of this walnut has some squirrely grain. As in, lots of crotch, curl, feathering, etc. Going to look awesome when finished though.

I tried setting my block plane to low cuts to take on the spindles, but I was getting tearout on some of the non-straight grained ones.


----------



## JayT

> Don t have a smoothing plane.
> 
> - jmartel


Say it ain't so! Everyone needs a smoothing plane. Get (or make) a high angle one and you'll have no issues with the tricky grain.


----------



## CFrye

Cabinet scraper, Jmartel? Not sure about using one on the small width of spindles…


----------



## jmartel

> Say it ain t so! Everyone needs a smoothing plane. Get (or make) a high angle one and you ll have no issues with the tricky grain.
> 
> - JayT


On my list of things to make. The list could probably fill a notebook, though.



> Cabinet scraper, Jmartel? Not sure about using one on the small width of spindles…
> 
> - CFrye


I considered that, however normally when I've used them, I don't get as smooth of a finish as I do by going up to 220grit. May give it a try again tonight. I guess these pieces aren't critical, either. The tops, shelves, and drawer fronts are already finished.


----------



## jmartel

Completely forgot until tonight that I had a #80 scraper. Pulled it out, sharpened it up and put a hook on the blade, and started making shavings.










To give you an idea of the grain that I'm working with:

Upper rail









#2









Drawer fronts:


----------



## Iguana

Wow! Spectacular grain. That would be nasty to plane.


----------



## jmartel

I discovered that the scraper doesn't leave quite as nice of a finish as I liked, but by following up with 220grit on the sander, it gets me right where I want it to be. At the very least, scraping saved me 3 grits of paper.


----------



## lateralus819

Look into a #112 Jmart, watch ebay u can get a good deal.

I picked up a hock blade for my #12 and sold the 12 and put the blade in the 112.

Really sweet setup. (Not to say a blade change is necessary but i think a thicker blade helps.)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> . At the very least, scraping saved me 3 grits of paper.
> 
> - jmartel


Right, planing and scraping won't always get the final surface you want, but they can sure save a lot of time going through grits and such. Generally board edges plane easily….which is nice because they're annoying to sand.


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, I'm not going to do any sanding on the board edges. Those feel fine. The faces look great after scraping and then sanding with 220. I only sanded a few boards, just as an experiment, but the rest will be sanded tonight.

And I still need to scrape all 36 spindles. I don't think I'm going to sand those, though. Not worth it.

Then hopefully finish will go on starting tomorrow if all goes to plan. I need to paste wax the tops as well. Then assembly, and finally moving them upstairs.

I'm not super happy right now with the finish on the top of my coffee table. I don't think I put enough coats on. So, once these are finished, I'm bringing the top down, trimming the ends of the breadboard down, shimming a few small gaps, and then putting more finish on.

Kevin, I looked into those, but they all seem to be $150ish+. I've got something else in mind, for whenever I can get to it, but I've got a few things I need to finish first.


----------



## RPhillips

Jmart, the drawer fronts are …. beautiful


----------



## Mahdeew

jmartel, it looks just like what I was fortunate to find in my pile:









BTW, I've been reading this forum since its inception… Just haven't had anything to contribute except a few post. You guys make some awesome stuff.


----------



## Mahdeew

jmartel, it looks just like what I was fortunate to find in my pile:









BTW, I've been reading this forum since its inception… Just haven't had anything to contribute except a few post. You guys make some awesome stuff.


----------



## jmartel

Figured walnut has to be my most favorite wood. I wish I had room for a figured walnut slab table. I would totally drop the $5k or whatever on a slab for it in a heartbeat if I had space. Sadly, I'm in a townhouse, so not much space for large furniture.


----------



## lateralus819

5k for a table. Really? That would be insane.


----------



## jmartel

That's what the super high figured claro walnut slabs are going for. Anywhere from $1500-$6k from a dealer from my initial research. Most of those are 2+" thick, 3-4+ft wide, and 8ft long though. Obviously if you live in walnut country, you can pick it up cheaper from a local sawyer.


----------



## jmartel

Ok, so those dimensions were a bit conservative. Here's one that I would consider buying if I was in the market.

http://www.gobywalnut.com/catalog/0530148-p-9412.html

And I would give serious consideration to buying a much larger slab, and selling the other half to cover at least part of my costs.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Wow you guys sure have been busy. Nice work Mark, Red, Jmart, and Andy. I'm sure Pez is still busy with cabinets.

Here is where I left off with my kitchen island before heading up to Jmart territory:



















And here is what I've been doing for the last week:



















Sorry I didn't have time to set something up to meet, Jmart. My host had me very busy, and then I had some meetings at our home office that I could not get out of. I should be back up in November though. I'll try to give you a call then.


----------



## john2005

Jmart, walnut is sweeeet! You got some good stuff there. FYI, there has been a guy advertising on CL for walnut slabs over in Idaho off and on. Seems to have pretty good prices. 500-1000/slab if my memory is right. Not sure if it's as pretty as what you got there, but worth checking out!


----------



## jmartel

Thanks for the heads up, John, but I don't have space in this townhouse. The wife and I have talked about moving in like 5 years or so to a bigger place outside the city, so it may happen then.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Need to ask some smart people about this, I'm kinda dumb, having never done a table top of any kind. Got this live edge mesquite slab to turn into a Nakashima-like foyer table (minus Nakashima talent). This is actually the bottom, sorry. Weighs at least 100 pounds, six feet long, two inches thick. The other side has more interesting figuring, but it's more or less the same:









The question I have is about how to deal with this stuff, which covers a significant area of one end:










Can a #80 tackle that fairly well? Don't have any card scrapers, would that make a difference than the 80? The cracks aren't that wide, you can kind of see how they are in both pictures. Is it necessary to fill them with epoxy? I want the top nice and smooth, but if I can leave those cracks open I'd prefer that. Never worked with mesquite before, not sure what to expect but it seems to be a very stable wood. But the way it cracks appears to be different than some other woods. Maybe I'm wrong about that, and it's hard to describe, but the way it cracks makes the wood come off in giant flakes or chunks from the middle, like a big long onion. Just didn't want a giant onion hunk coming loose down the road if I didn't do anything about the cracks. Dang cracks!

Thanks.


----------



## ToddJB

I'd fill it with thin ca glue and then sand it while the ca glue is wet


----------



## jmartel

Lots of parts.










Mmmm figured walnut


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Travis- The surface looks pretty rough for scraping. Your gonna need to plane (hand or power) or run that thing through a wide drum sander to get closer to your finished surface. 
For the cracks, it's really up to you. Maloof and Nakashima were known for using epoxy mixed with sanding dust to fill such voids. It's not a big deal to do, and it looks fairly natural when done right. Of course you can just stabilize any loose knots and lay down a finish as is. However, if this is a table, the cracks will get filled with crud. Imo, you'll be happier with the end product if you fill them.


----------



## Mahdeew

ColonelTravis, make a simple router sled and clean it up. Here is something to go from.


----------



## ColonelTravis

MrJinx that is one heck of a router jig. Looks like actual train rails were used. I've thought about making something like that but I'm such a sucker for hand tools.

Crack filling and aggressive planing it is.

Thanks.


----------



## SCOTSMAN

Yes I too have made some really great friends here, and I find you guys have given me so much inspiration and a real inbuilt desire to try some of the things you do to see if I too can do it.Guess what? to date I have always managed it reasonably well LOL lother words I consider and have done for many years that Your all my Brothers and Sisters you really are the very best humans on planet earth LOL .I look forward to seeing your work,learning from your work, and being inspired by your work .Also of course your brotherly, sisterly ,individual awesome inspiring personalities.You guys when I get low or depressed.I simply come here and get my daily fill after just a short time imbibing your posts.Alistair


----------



## ColonelTravis

Went to de-bark the slab today and noticed two problems.

1.) The rough area I was concerned about wasn't very rough and hard. Just the opposite. Didn't pick up on how soft and rotten-ish it was when I got the wood yesterday.



















If I just lop off that end, there goes a significant chunk of that nice edge I want to keep - 10-12 inches. Is this kind of soft stuff salvageable in any way? It goes all the way through, it's not like I can scoop it out and have hardwood underneath. I guess I could chop it out and have some sort of Y at the end?

2.) Grubs out the yin yang. Didn't find any actual beetles, but tons of grubby little grubs. If you get close to the wood you can hear crackling sounds all over, and see little piles of sawdust around the edges, they're all over the sapwood. Got some out taking off the bark but I don't know if how many are in there. Need to find a kiln and kill these things. Thought about making one, and I could, I just don't know if I want to go through the hassle of making one the right way.

Then I thought - if I take this thing to a kiln, which will kill the bugs, will it salvage the mushy wood? I'm going to guess no but that's just a guess.


----------



## upchuck

ColonelTravis-

Kiln drying that mushy wood will give you dry mushy wood. I'd be a bit concerned about the bugs in that wood.
I'd hate to be offering them new meals with the rest of the wood in my rack.

chuck


----------



## ColonelTravis

Chuck, that's what I figured about the mush. Oh well, I'll take it off and make do. Board is longer than I needed, but the cooler looking slope is on that mush end.

About the bugs, everything I've read is that kiln heat will kill them. Problem is finding one near DFW. Wish it were summer, I could bake these things easily in the back yard. Only lumber kilns I can find are no closer than two hours away, there's gotta be someone closer. Right now the slab is in quarantine, so they can't get into other wood. Sounds like a bowl of Rice Krispies. Not as loud as before I took the bark off and killed a bunch of them.


----------



## theoldfart

Colonel, could you rig up a solar kiln from salvaged windows ? Kinda like burning ants with a magnifying glass!


----------



## ToddJB

Colonel, the 100 year old work bench I restored had a big mushy spot in the tool tray. I put a ton of CA glue in it and harden it up to a bit harder than the rest of the wood. Took quite a few applications, though, and it darkened the wood up some. Its in one of my bench blogs.


----------



## DanKrager

CT, there is an epoxy like material that you can put on the punky stuff and it turns hard and machinable. How it does under finish, I don't know. I've used it (a LONG time ago, so many sleeps that I can't remember what it's called) under clear finish and it did well. House restorers use it a lot.
Must get those bugs killed. A plastic tent (bag) with an aerosol penetrating bug killer will go a long ways. Then powder the outside with borax (soap). You can also tent the stuff under a couple layers of tarps (for insulation) and put in a tiny ELECTRIC space heater that raises the temp to 180 to 200° eventually. 
Good luck. Not sure if I would waste my time on it…there's prettier stuff to be had.
DanK


----------



## ColonelTravis

Thanks, guys. I did a little test with a giant cardboard box and an electric heater and got it to 110F after a few minutes. This is NOT what I'd use to heat the slab, it was just a test. I can find some sort of insulation at HD and then make a plywood box and I'm confident those bugs will meet death tomorrow.


----------



## jmartel

2nd coat is on tonight. Debating between stopping at 3 coats, or going to 4 or 5. The top has 5 coats, but it understandably will see more use.


----------



## Pezking7p

Stop at three and on to the next one. Whatcha putting on it?


----------



## jmartel

Arm-R-Seal. Gloss right now, top coat will be satin.

Next builds will be shop stuff rather than furniture. My garage has crappy organization stuff, and I have no router table or any tool storage.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Travis- I agree with DanK, you could stabilize and use that piece with epoxy. Just depends on what extent you want to go to.


----------



## upchuck

ColonelTravis-

I want to shake your confidence a little bit. I am not an expert on bug killing but I would make every effort to kill them all. And then I'd make sure that I killed the next generation too. And then I'd try to make that piece of wood an unhealthy place for future bugs to call home. Bounce the rubble. No quarter. Think the Alamo. I don't think (other than fire) that one day's effort under a heat lamp is going to kill every last bug, nit, and egg. Several days and maybe a bug bomb under a tarp like DanK said would be a preferable addition to the tanning salon. Become the angel of death. Kill them all.

chuck


----------



## mojapitt

In general, time in a kiln is about 2 weeks. Plenty of time to kill them all at around 140 degrees.


----------



## Iguana

Got the new door and fake drawer front finished Friday and installed Saturday to complete the vanity:









Think I need to add a pull to the fake drawer, looks kind of odd as is.









Altogether, a relatively straightforward project. Most of the time spent was in the refinishing, but it was nice to do some real woodworking while making the new door. Loose tenon construction using a simple router jig, although I kept thinking that a Domino would make it go really quickly.

The next project is an interior door to be mounted on a sliding track. (think barn door approach). The door will be a straightforward 5-panel shaker style, but fairly large at 94" high by 40" wide. I'm already thinking a Domino XL would be ideal


----------



## CFrye

That turned out great, Mark!


----------



## Iguana

Added a project page, here

Thank you, Candy. My wife really likes it, scored me some brownie points


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## ColonelTravis

Rigged up a bug death coffin via electric heater, table, plywood, bubble foil insulation, moving blankets. They will not be alive come sundown.


----------



## Pezking7p

Stain job is superb and the overall look in your bathroom is stunning. Overall how difficult would you say that stain regimen is? How did you come by that formula? Just a ton of trial boards or is there some method to how to overlay colors?


----------



## ShaneA

Mark, you did an outstanding job on that. I believe all your hard work was justified on such a nice piece.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Mark, great looking vanity cabinet! You sure made a beauty out of a beast!


----------



## mojapitt

Question for you folks. I have been shipping lumber to LJ Old Wrangler in Houston. Shipping via UPS is double the cost of the wood. Any suggestions of a better way?


----------



## ColonelTravis

Haven't been around the forum in a while, really impressed with so many things here. Just inspirational.

Monte - make OW drive to your house. What's it, 1400 miles? The savings on your end would be phenomenal! Sorry, I have no other answers.


----------



## Mahdeew

Monte Pittman, swap. My kids live in TX.. They bring me wood from there and I load them up with wood from here.


----------



## ShaneA

You could use LTL possibly, not sure on length restrictions. You could probably do 4' w/o much hassle.


----------



## Pezking7p

LTL +1. Probably have to send a lot but that's the best way. We send 70" pallets LTL, done know about other length restrictions.


----------



## ToddJB

LTL?


----------



## ShaneA

Less than truckload. Your carriers like R&L, ODU, Fed Ex Freight, YRC and so forth.


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## Iguana

Thank you all for your kind comments. I do like how the vanity turned out. It looks good in the room and given its intended use, is more than sufficiently built. My biggest beef with it is that it was originally sold as mid to high end furniture, which it certainly isn't. But it is definitely better than any particle board and cardboard furniture available today.

*Dan* - the layered finishing process is pretty easy to do. It just adds another day to the timeline as you need to wait for a second stain to dry. I have a few tips:
- generally, put the lighter of your two colors on first.
- while I used shellac as my intermediate sealer, it could be something like a sanding sealer. The key thing is to lock in the first dye/stain and prevent the second stain from interfering.
- the first stain can be anything - dyes, oil based, water based, chemical mordants, etc.
- as the second stain does not directly contact the wood, it is something that needs to carry color on its own. This generally means a thicker pigment-based product like a gel stain. Thin oil stains don't have.much effect IME.
- usually better to spray on the sealer than to brush. Brushing does work but you need a light touch and minimal overlap.

As to how I picked these two colors? You can use any colors you like, whatever you find aesthetically pleasing. (Or make a statement!) I always do a few sample boards to test combinations but in this case, I didn't have many options. My marching orders were "neutral darkish grey". Do you know.how hard it is to find neutral grey wood stains? I only found these two. Neither was dark enough on its own so I did a sample board with the both of them. The boss approved, so I didn't have to keep looking.

In general, the base color ends up being just a subtone, while the top stain is the fundamental color of the finish. So I pick the second color first (^) and then play with the base color to achieve the effect I'm looking for.

(^) Whenever I pick up a new stain, I make a few sample boards to see what that stain looksnlike on various woods - maple or poplar to see what it looks like on a whiter wood, oak for the open pore effect, and a medium toned wood like alder or beech. And lacquer on top to seal it. Over time, I've built up a decent library that I can look through.


----------



## jmartel

Well I decided to compromise at 4 coats. So I put one more gloss coat on yesterday, and it will get a coat of satin tonight. Then let everything cure for a few days, and assemble the 2 tables. I must say that I'm pretty happy with how everything is coming out.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Been tinkering with finishes a bit myself. Here's some transtint antique maple dye on birds eye maple. I'm liking it. Planning on using this for door panels and drawer fronts of my current build.


----------



## Hammerthumb

That looks awesome Red! Really brings out the eyes!


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## CL810

That looks great Red! I have some bird's eye veneer waiting for a project so I'm going to remember this.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys. Last time I tried dye on QSWO, I didn't like it. It seems like figured maple is made for transtint. Works really well.


----------



## CFrye

Just looked at the range of colors available for transtint dyes that Rockler has…Hard to pick just one! Plus…
Torsion hinges are on sale *and* free shipping! Why is payday always so far away? LOL


----------



## lateralus819

Turned out great Dan!! Nice job. The double dye method works wonders for figured woods.

Did you have any issues with blotching?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

No blotching issues so far. Believe it or not, that's a sample board divided into thirds…hehehe. Not a ton of difference between the variables I threw at it (danish oil, shellac, etc.) I'll let you guys know what I arrive at for a final recipe.

Now I just hope it looks good using that for both the door panels and drawer fronts…...since that what I set my mind on.


----------



## Pezking7p

Looks a lot redder than I expected. Daddy likes.

Question. Sprayed the edges and fronts of all my cabinet doors, but it looks like the end grain didn't get sealed real well. Not sure how to proceed. Thinking maybe get a small brush and try to touch up by hand, only other option is a second coat? Any ideas? I don't have enough lacquer for a whole other coat.


----------



## Iguana

Did you spray a sealer, or just do a single coat of lacquer?

Can't see where brushing the affected areas will hurt as long as you don't get any spilling over onto the front or back.


----------



## Pezking7p

Mark, I sprayed SW vinyl sealer, but I probably did a terrible job of it on some areas. I'll try to touch one or two up with a brush, thanks.


----------



## DrSawdust

Hey Everyone,

I am making a desk top in the shape of an "L". The big piece is 78"x30" and the little piece is 48"x30". The wood is African Mahogany and is 1.75" thick. I need to find a way to seamlessly join the pieces in the L shape. I was hoping some furniture making experts out here might be able to point me to some "Specialty Hardware".

Thanks.

As soon as I get back to the shop I'll snap some pictures and post them.


----------



## Pezking7p

If it were me, since it's nice furniture, I would attach them like I was attaching a breadboard, except instead of gluing in the middle, I would glue it at the back edge and let the front tenons move forward. This way the back will always stay flush. I'm sure someone more experienced than I has a better plan, though. I don't even know why I'm commenting.


----------



## CL810

Here are some options:

http://www.rockler.com/tite-joint-fastener

http://www.thehardwarehut.com/fasteners_countertop.php

Both of these sites have this one but the second site is half the price.


----------



## Mean_Dean

I don't think wood movement should be an issue. Both pieces are 30" wide, so they should both move in lock step. Of course, that 45 degree angle could cause the boards to run into each other.

I'd just use biscuits to align the joint, and then glue it up.


----------



## Iguana

What I'm picturing is that the grain in the two boards will be running cross-wise to each other, like this:









There will have wood movement issues. The connectors CL810 found are great. I'd use two or three of those and further reinforce the alignment with a spline(s) glued into one of the pieces and allowed to float in the other.

Dean, you don't want to mitre that big joint, you'd loose too much wood. Not to mention that a perfectly cut 45° won't stay perfect through seasonal changes, meaning there will be gaps at the inside and outside corners at times.


----------



## DrSawdust

Thank you . . . this is exactly what I was hoping for . . . I appreciate everyone's input. . . .you guys are awesome!

Mark, that is exactly the shape that I'm making. I'm going to order the Tite Joint Fasteners. I'll post pictures as I go.

Thanks again.


----------



## CL810

DrSawdust, I'm wondering how are you going to allow for wood movement?


----------



## ShaneA

I like Clayton's bolts for this, but with a miter joint, if you lay it out perfectly and use guides, it would be possible to do with a circular saw and a nice sharp blade.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Mark, I see what you're saying about the 45 degree miter. It might not stay closed all year, plus you still have the edges of the boards trying to move past each other.

But the butt joint presents problems as well. In your example, the left-hand board is going to want to push the right-hand board away in the summer, which will leave a gap in the winter. Plus, if the boards are glued, the RH board will want to slide down the flank of the LH board in the summer, and if glued, will split.

I guess if you treated the LH board as a breadboard end, and allowed the RH board to float in it, that would solve the movement issue with the RH board. But what about the LH board? It's still going to want to push the RH board away as it expands, and you can't glue it to the RH board, as previously discussed.

Maybe the metal fasteners in the post above would solve the problem, as you could manually compensate for the wood movement. Seems like kind of a pain, though. Maybe if they were spring loaded?

Anyway, just a few thoughts off the top of my head. I am very interested in Drsawdust's solution.


----------



## CL810

When I posted the links for the Tite fit bolts I had in my mind a mitre joint. With the Doc's design, movement could definitely be an issue. But not a lot. If the desk will be in Austin we're looking at a worst case movement of .35" for flat sawn. I wonder if the Tite fit bolts will "slide" like a pin in a bread board end?

I don't think the left side will push the right side. It's just going to move toward the left were there is no resistance.

Doc, what's your plan?


----------



## DrSawdust

The desk will be in a moderately stable environment, an air conditioned office. I was thinking I would use the bolts loosely. If anyone has a better idea I'm open to learning.

This is what I have so far. I haven't trimmed the ends yet, but both pieces are 30" wide.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I see end grain to side grain problems there. I would miter them together and use the bolts Andy suggested.


----------



## DrSawdust

Each piece is made up of 4 boards, biscuit jointed together. My thought is that the two pieces have to be able to come apart to be transported. I was not planning on permanently joining the two pieces together.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Interesting predicament DrSawdust. I tend to think the bolts would work ok if there was some play in them. However, the end grain joint willmove. Even on my breadboards I can feel tiny cracks int the finish where the wood has moved.

edit- that is to say, if they are finished separately and intended to be assembled and disassembled I believe you'd be ok.


----------



## Hammerthumb

That would work with the bolts. Maybe some locating dowels in the miter also.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Hey Red, your Broncos are taking it to my Chargers.


----------



## CL810

Austin is so dry, and in a temperature controlled environment, there may not be much movement. If the Tite fit bolts' recess on the right side was more of a 'D' shape instead of a round forstner hole shape it may work.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Hey Red, your Broncos are taking it to my Chargers.
> 
> - Hammerthumb


Yessir Paul. You guys need a QB with some class….lol.

Btw, I just watched my 9-year-old son devour twenty bone-in bbq wings…...and I swelled with pride.


----------



## theoldfart

I'm guessing your not the only one who swelled! gonna hold his hand when he bazooka barfs all over the place? Ah the rights of passage into real man hood!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Yeah Red. Keep feedin your boy like that and he'll be taller then me by 10.

Andy, I think it would be possible to assemble end grain to side grain with mechanical fasteners. There should be enough give to allow movement.


----------



## Iguana

Dean - you nailed it. This is basically a breadboard end construction, where the left side is the end. The right side needs to be allowed to move against the left. You can't glue them together, you need to use mechanical fasteners so the movement is allowed while keeping the pieces together.

Whether the left piece pushes away the right or expands to the left is immaterial. The two pieces are locked together mechanically.

So, use the mechanical fasteners. No glue holding the slabs together, just the fasteners. Possibly use a spline to guarantee surface alignment, but it isn't critical. If you want to, it can be glued into the side of the long piece or left floating. Just don't glue it into the end of the short piece.

You'd want to ensure the back edge of the desk remains aligned, so maybe use a dowel close to the back.

The mechanical fasteners need to move as the short piece expands. So make sure the bolt holes are elongated somewhat. Don't cinch the fasteners as tight as you can. They just need to be snug enough so the pieces don't separate.

Red, my 'Hawks own your Broncos. So there


----------



## j1212t

DrSawdust - talking from personal experience, African Mahogany is pretty damn stable, I would not fret it too much.

I made a 2" Iroko mahagony kitchen countertop in february of 2014 (http://lumberjocks.com/j1212t/blog/39815) also blog post no2 has the full slab in it. I made the exact kind of butt-joint you are going with, in addition I made a mitered edge around it, to have the sapwood continuity around the piece. I used a crapton of glue and pocket screws to pull everything tight.

In 8 months I have yet to see the seam pull loose or see any cracks developing and we have gone from the coldest to the hottest, back to cold in that time. (I live in Northern europe where the outside temperature differences in summer and winter are in excess of 125 degrees…) and I don't have an AC or a device to keep our temp and/or moisture level at a certain level, it just kind of fluctuates freely. In the summer it is hot and somewhat humid, in the winter it is reasonable temp, but dry.

Personally, I don't think you will have any problems, even if you were to just butt joint and glue. If you decide to add a few of those fancy-pants fasteners you should be golden.

But, take my advice for what it is, no science, just my personal experience from doing what I did.


----------



## rossboyle52

Monte,

If you have a UPS account try contacting your account rep. and ask him/her about 100 weight shipment discounts. If you are shipping ground shipment the total shipment has to be 200 lbs or more to qualify for discount. If shipping air shipment 100 lbs or more. A lot of times the cost of shipment is about half that of standard rate. Do bare in mind though that O/S can effect the over all cost of the shipment. UPS accepts shipments with less than 180" in combined length and girth. The size restrictions are in place to protect the common carrier (LTL freight companies) and prevent any monopoly.
Hope this helps.

P.S.
I have been a UPS driver for more than 26 years.


----------



## mojapitt

I actually shipped this batch with FedEx freight ( sorry ). It was much cheaper. I will check into getting an account.


----------



## rossboyle52

To be honest with you Monte, I often use fed-ex or USPS (postal service) for shipments because the rate is cheaper depending on where the parcel is going. Price is very important in the woodworking business. I do get a small discount with UPS because I work there. (5%, Woo-Hoo!) 
I have career military children spread out all over the country so between them and the part time woodworking shop parcels are being shipped from home constantly.


----------



## DrSawdust

I want to give a big THANK YOU to everyone that has offered their advice to me. I really appreciate it. The greatest thing about this website is the members. You guys never disappoint.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Monte - try www.freightquote.com. They will shop LTL carriers like Old Dominion, Saia, JB Hunt, etc to find the best rate. In a prior life I worked for a hardwood flooring distributor and had to freight wood all of the time. This seemed to be the best option to find the best rate quickly.


----------



## jmartel

Finally finished.


----------



## RPhillips

Jmart, looking good man!


----------



## byerbyer

Very nice, Jmart!


----------



## dbray45

Thought I would jump into this - from my own experience.

When making a counter, a lot of folks make (or buy) a butcher block style of top - with the grain running length wise. In doing this, the grain, if it is a quality top, is vertical, creating a quarter-sawn top. With this type of top, 95% of the movement will be vertical and not along the width of the panel. You could glue this if wanted, but I would not.

If you make the top with boards or planks (6" to 20" wide boards) that are flat sawn, you are going to get movement across the width of the top (front to back).

Either way, if I were to do a counter corner, I would get two or three sets of the bolts and three biscuits (for alignment only), finish the edges and do NOT glue the pieces. If anything, use a thin strip of silicon caulk between the two pieces to seal for spills. Doing this allows for humidity, repairs, relocation, whatever you need.


----------



## JADobson

Hey guys, 
Got a new project on the go. I was along a couple of weeks ago about turning table legs and now I'm starting the table. Was supposed to start earlier but my wife saw these barstools and had to have them. 


I think my shameless copies turned out all right. 









Anyway, then I got distracted by retrofitting my bench. Finally got around to the table. I'm doing this one leg at a time so here is the first one all clamped up:








They started as 2×8s ripped to 6" and then glued together to make the blank 6" square. I got the wife to draw out a full scale drawing of what the leg should look like:








Once the glue is dry I will square the blank (easier to do it now than when most of the leg is round).

I'm pretty excited about this build. Here's hoping that my lathe can spin this beast.


----------



## JADobson

Started turning today. My blank weighed 22lbs but it was very close to square and well balanced so it didn't vibrate too bad. Got some extra weight on the stand as well but I think I might just bolt the lathe down to my work bench. It has much more mass than that little stand. Anyway here is the beginnings of the leg. 


















Also got a nasty catch on one of my beads


----------



## Hammerthumb

Very nice turning. Sorry about the catch. Can you repair it?


----------



## JADobson

I think so. It won't be perfect but close enough that it shouldn't be too noticeable.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Bummer on the catch there James. That's a beast of a timber. Starting to turn some myself. Pretty fun.

Finally got back to crackin on the pantry build this morning. Time for doors and drawer fronts. Even though we decided against the spice rack on the inside of the cabinet doors, I still went with full mortise and tenons on the doors. Big doors need the strength. 








-
This LN rabbet block feels like an old friend. 









-
I seriously feel that a dado blade combined with a sacrificial fence is one of the safest and most productive setups in furniture making. 








-
Then I used a multiple step process with transtint dye and shellac. Birds eye doesn't pop quite like curly maple…but it's still nice.


----------



## Pezking7p

Panels looking sweet. Are you dying anything else or will it be a light/dark contrast? I'm very interested in how this turns out because I always like when maple is done really well.

Realized today that it's only been 10 weeks since I started my cabinet build. And I took two three-day weekends off to travel. Seems like it's been months and months.

For a while we've been discussing an entertainment center as my next project. I was going to make it like a sideboard. But recently I've been thinking about a wall hanging shelf that the tv sits on, and has enough room underneath for a cable box/bluray and a wii or whatnot. What are your guys thoughts on this? The room is kind of narrow (10') and I'm worried about the entertainment center choking things off.


----------



## RPhillips

> I seriously feel that a dado blade combined with a sacrificial fence is one of the safest and most productive setups in furniture making.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I just built me a utility fence (from FWW magazine) so that I could set my TS like that too. pretty slick…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Rob- it's my go-to for rabbets and milling tenons. I feel like I have more control with that method over a router table.

Pez- we'll see how this piece turns out. I think I did an alright job with the dye. Fist time though. Darn dyes. Even with practicing on test boards….you can't help but doubt yourself through the process.

I think a floating wall piece would be cool for any entertainment center. It would just be one of those things that you'd have to line up the hardware(mounting plan) before you build.


----------



## JADobson

I saw this floating piece a few months ago in Canadian Woodworking and Home Improvement magazine. Really like the looks of it.
https://www.canadianwoodworking.com/plans-projects/build-walnut-sideboard


----------



## Pezking7p

> Rob- it s my go-to for rabbets and milling tenons. I feel like I have more control with that method over a router table.
> 
> Pez- we ll see how this piece turns out. I think I did an alright job with the dye. Fist time though. Darn dyes. Even with practicing on test boards….you can t help but doubt yourself through the process.
> 
> I think a floating wall piece would be cool for any entertainment center. It would just be one of those things that you d have to line up the hardware(mounting plan) before you build.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


You have a really good eye, I'm sure it's going to work out nicely. I'm actually surprised by the warmth and brown-ness of the pieces pictured above.

I think a wall piece could be cool. James, I like that piece, but I had something in mind that was more of a shelf than a cabinet, but a wall-hanging cabinet could be very cool. I was kind of thinking about krenov-meets-craftsman. I really wish I spent more time sketching things. Maybe after kitchen reno, I'll drink some beers and draw some stuff.


----------



## mojapitt

I do like my Dado blade and TS over the router table. I feel I get cleaner cuts and is easier to repeat them.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Red - just remembered to say thanks for the advise on the router plane. As I use the dado and sacrificial fence often, I have found that a final clean up with the router plane makes up for any inconsistency in dado or rabbet depth after using that method, due to any flex or warp in the panel.


----------



## chrisstef

Sure your name aint Ted, 1000?


----------



## mojapitt

I really hate Ted.


----------



## jmartel

I don't believe in Ted. There, I said it. I know, I'm a heathen.


----------



## theoldfart

Me thinks Ted is not from around here. He's a bad man(ufacturer)


----------



## theoldfart

Check out 1,000's home page. He looks just like Garrett Hack!


----------



## theoldfart

Whoops, Ted has been dis-assembled. bye Bye Ted


----------



## JADobson

I feel like I missed something here!


----------



## theoldfart

James, Ted was a spammer.


----------



## mojapitt

Ted is never completely gone. Just looking for a new way to scam us.


----------



## JADobson

Oh is he the guy with the thousands of plans pilfered from around the web?


----------



## mojapitt

That's him. He has pilfered from LJS as well.


----------



## theoldfart

Looks like he also stole Garrett Hacks photo as well, bit of a dirt bag.


----------



## RPhillips

> I feel like I missed something here!
> 
> - JADobson


..... I'm with ya…..


----------



## chrisstef

Got a buddy of mine who just finished a very nice qs red oak pie safe and hes looking for finishing advice. Any thoughts fellas?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, when we flag spammer posts they are removed by the LJ folks. So… the dialogue looks a little funny with annoying post is gone.

My kids like the smell of polyurethane. I worry about them sometimes.


----------



## theoldfart

Ok Lucy, I'm gonna 'splain it to you. The was a spam post right after Hammerthumbs post. Looks like the powers that be deleted it but the dude has history around here as a thief and a fraud.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Stef, for QS oak my go-to has always been tinted danish oil (the various walnut shades look best), followed by wipe on poly. Really easy to do. Just make sure to wait a couple days in the danish oil. You can show him any of my white oak furniture if he wants to see what that looks like.


----------



## chrisstef

Does the white oak act any differently than the red oak, Rojo? Another question (might be dumb but what the hell), does quarter sawn finish any different than flat sawn?


----------



## RPhillips

> Ya, when we flag spammer posts they are removed by the LJ folks. So… the dialogue looks a little funny with annoying post is gone.
> 
> My kids like the smell of polyurethane. I worry about them sometimes.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Awwww. makes sense now.. thanks

BTW… I like the smell of poly… and fiberglass resin for that matter…


----------



## Hammerthumb

Red oak and WO will finish the same, but be aware that staining red and white with the same stain will yield totally different colors. Highly recommend test pieces.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Another thing Stef - one of the most beautiful floors I have done was with a red and white oak mix of a rustic grade. Natural color, no stain. One of the ugliest floors I did was with the same wood, but used a stain. When the homeowner liked a color stain on white oak, it looked terrible on the RO. Another stain was good on the RO, but made the white look bad. What he decided on, I thought looked equally bad on both!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

+1 to the oaks finishing the same. Plainsawn or QS doesn't matter either. The key with QS is just to show off the rays. I swear using a wipe-on poly for the first coat or two makes them pop even more.

This is the part where I torture myself debating whether I like it or not. 









Obviously the maple with yellow a bit with poly. I think it'll look alright.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> My kids like the smell of polyurethane. I worry about them sometimes.


Probably better for them than model airplane glue ;-)


----------



## Pezking7p

I like the color.


----------



## lateralus819

Red that looks great my friend. Excellent job! Is the cabinet painted?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Thanks Kev. The cabinet just gets satin poly.


----------



## bobro

> Love the Morris chair and A&C too…..my whole house is A&C!
> I ended up buying my Morris chair made by the Amish. I was going to build one but it was the same price as the 1/4 sawn oak materials! In fact, I bought the whole set.
> 
> I built this saltwater tank stand out of cherry about two years ago.
> It s posted as the four year project in my profile.
> 
> The problem is, it s so tall that I have to use a small kitchen ladder to feed the fish twice a day. The guy that installed the filter system was going to put in a feeder in line but it s a bitch to use and you can t feed them whole clams through it so.. I bought a cheap metal ladder and, I hate it.
> 
> My plan is to make a 4 ft. arched rolling ladder attached to a rod like you would find in a library. The ladder will have a slight nautical theme, maybe have round holes drilled in the sides…something you would see in the submarine in 20k leagues under the sea. Stainless steel screws, maybe a shell carving, who knows!
> 
> Never seen this idea before but it sounds really cool. I ll post it when I m done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - reedwood


Nice- I like woodwork that has not only a function, but simply can not be built with fakery in the construction. Water, glass, and pebbles are heavy, so that tank is heavier than having that whole section made of one solid block of ebony, if you do the math.


----------



## camps764

Chrisstef - I've done a lot of my oak furniture in red oak. I start with minwax early american to get the color, then a coat or two of shellac to get the amber color and some protection, and then finish up with a few coats of poly.


----------



## chrisstef

Much thanks on the info gang, ill pass it along.


----------



## john2005

THIS

http://blog.thosmoser.com/Portals/52141/images/JUN09_PRC_Walnut_onebird_lrRGBbig.jpg


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Why Yes!


----------



## JADobson

That's a rocking chair. Beautiful.


----------



## CL810

And that.


----------



## john2005

Someday boys. Someday. I'm gonna make one like that, sit on the front porch and tell lies. I look forward to that day.


----------



## theoldfart

I haven't made the rocker but sitting on the porch and telling the embellished truth sounds appealing.


----------



## CL810

> I haven t made the rocker but sitting on the porch and telling the embellished truth sounds appealing.
> 
> - theoldfart


Don't forget yelling at the kids cutting across your yard. :-0


----------



## theoldfart

Makes you feel like Clint Eastwood, punks!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Someday boys. Someday. I m gonna make one like that, sit on the front porch and tell lies. I look forward to that day.
> 
> - john2005


Amen John. Amen.

Last step before finishing today, and I tried some Browns hide glue for the first time. A little different than working with titebond. You have to warm it. Placing it in some hot tap water for a few minutes does the trick. Advantages are the longer open time and less chance of glue spots in the finish. 









I'll be using that stuff again.


----------



## JADobson

Bad news on my table build. I just snapped my roughing gouge in two. 








Not entirely sure what happened but I was left holding one piece in each hand. Don't think I can swing the $40 for a new one till who knows when.


----------



## DanKrager

JA, That's really unusual. I've bent some gouges, but never snapped one. When I bent them, I realized I was "reaching", i.e. the tool rest was too far from the turning. A teeniest bit of flex led to a catch and the rest is new tool.

If you know a good welder and metal worker, you might be able to salvage this. He has to be an experienced welder, not a beginner…! Welding will temper the apparently brittle section at the handle. IMHO, the tool near the handle was not properly tempered to begin with. Good luck.

DanK


----------



## JADobson

Thanks Dan, there was a catch, but a fairly minor one. My rest was about 1/2" away from my blank. My neighbour is a welder with a lot of experience. I'll see if he'll take a look at it for me.


----------



## Hammerthumb

James - I'll look tonight and see it I have an extra gouge I can mail you.


----------



## CL810

This may not be the proper place to post question but since we have talked about mortisers I thought I'd go ahead.

Spent some time today tuning up my 3/8" hollow chisel bit. Results were much better than initial efforts. First question is: Is this as good as it gets or do I have more tuning up to do? Mortise is 1.5" deep.









Second question is, there are low spots on the outside of the hollow chisel. You can still see the original grinding marks towards the bottom after polishing to 6000 grit. I stopped due to some concern of making it out of square. Should I continue flattening each side until all grinding marks are gone?


----------



## ShaneA

I assume the above picture is not cleaned up with a hand chisel? If so, that looks pretty clean to me. I use a Craftsman mortiser, and it gets the job done. Nothing to jump up and down about, but functional. Mine usually are not the clean looking at first.

I have only really messed with the "edges" of the chisels before. I bought the little sharpening cones Lee Valley sells. Not sure how much they help, as I am sure there is a learning curve I am behind.


----------



## pintodeluxe

Regarding the mortise… I think you can get better results. With mine, I often make multiple passes without adjusting the machines settings. If it is a centered mortise, I flip the workpiece around and cut it from both sides. Often a ragged first cut becomes nice and clean on the second pass. 
One problem I see with your sample mortise is the auger is cutting beyond the lines of the mortise. Most stock chisel sets will do that, and while it is not a problem for blind mortises, it is problematic for through tenons. I take my auger bits to the bench grinder, and give it a twist. This slightly reduces the diameter of the tip of the auger, and yields a much cleaner mortise.


----------



## DanKrager

I'm with Pinto on this. That ragged edge shouldn't happen. The bit is a) running off center because the "tube" is not centered or clear b) one cutting edge of the bit is proud of the other forcing an off center cut c) there is too much clearance adjusted between the bit and the chisel. (That's my first impression from the picture). Mortise chisels that I have a personal relationship with are very slightly relieved behind the cutting edge on the outside. They are not supposed to be straight (in my shop). The corners of the square chisel contact the wood just before (by thousandths) the bit does, and the chips pulled up by the bit help keep it centered within the chisel. The bits should peel up thin chips that fit in the bit clearance, and that has to do with feed rate and bit speed. Perhaps you are feeding too cautiously because those bits spin pretty fast, and the machine is designed to be "quick about it". 
Polishing the outside might be self defeating. This may be counter-intuitive, but more polish means more contact between wood and chisel. None of the chisels I've purchased have been polished on the outside…only a fairly smooth grind. My reasoning is this: a grind is rough, leaving about 50% of the metal to contact the wood…less contact = less friction. I have been known to touch the tops of the grind peaks with a super fine abrasive just to smooth the otherwise grabby peaks of the torn metal (from grinding). The leading edge of the chisel should be razor sharp all around at 30° so the wood isn't compressed but cut cleanly. This helps defeat the friction against the chisel surface, especially when the chisel is withdrawn.
Tuning a power mortise chisel to peak performance is tough IMHO. Like sharpening a saw, it takes a while to get it down pat. Good luck!
DanK 
Edit: a good lubricant on the chisel inside and out is helpful. Light touch of a hard carnuba wax, baby powder, or other dry lubricant (NOT SILICONE) won't hinder glue if you don't over do it.


----------



## CL810

Only one pass. Ya Willie, major blowout on through tenons. Great idea about grinding the bits. How much do you estimate you take off?


----------



## DanKrager

Clayton,
Mortise chisels behave a lot like wood augers on the exit. You can never keep the exit clean no matter how well you back it up. There are two ways to defeat this blowout…a) cut the stock wider than needed and rip off the blowout b) reverse the stock to cut in from the other side. Keep the same face against the reference fence!
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Got some great advice the Clayton. I learned some too! On through mortises I always flip and drill from the other side. Pretty easy since your fence should duplicate the bore.

Happy Halloween Furniture Makers!









Now where's my chili dog?


----------



## lateralus819

You too Red! 









My boy on the left as a "hunter" and my nephew on the right as an airforce member.


----------



## CL810

Thanks a lot Shane, Willie and Dan! I'm really happy about the progress I've made. Got the overheating under control. I smoothed the inside to 1000 grit and then smoothed the flutes of the bit. These suggestions will take me to the next level.


----------



## pintodeluxe

I just grind off a small amount of the tip of the auger. Check the fit in your hollow chisel, and grind until the auger is no longer proud of the side of the chisel.


----------



## wormil

My auger bits sometimes want to run a little cockeyed inside the chisel and usually fit better one way than another. I just keep pulling them out and rotating them until they cut clean as I can get them. I have a cheap mortiser though.


----------



## Mahdeew

CL810, I ended up grinding my auger bit and it made a big difference. Also, drilling the holes with a smaller bit first, takes the stress out of the mortising machine.


----------



## Mahdeew

CL810, I ended up grinding my auger bit and it made a big difference. Also, drilling the holes with a smaller bit first, takes the stress out of the mortising machine.


----------



## Airframer

Stumbled on this on another thread here on LJ's and it is just too cool not to share with you folks. It is an old French silent film documenting a french furniture maker from tree harvest to finish.

http://www.ina.fr/video/VDD10045525


----------



## lateralus819

That was too cool Eric. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## theoldfart

Eric, thanks for the link. Looks like resawing was the way of the day. I remember seeing a video if Mike Dunbar sawing the same way with a similar saw.


----------



## Airframer

My favorite part was the giant log sized veneer shaver. That and a better understanding of the relationship between master and apprentice. Pretty cool.


----------



## yuridichesky

Have a look on a tenon jig that Derek Cohen just posted:



Similar to David Barron's dovetail guide it uses rare-earth magnets to hand-saw tenons.

Pretty cool I'd say.


----------



## RPhillips

^ just seen that too, going to make me one and give it a try.


----------



## CL810

*Thanks* to everyone who replied to the my question about tuning up hollow chisels. The picture really doesn't do justice to how improved the mortises are.


----------



## DanKrager

Does look pretty good, Cl810. Now…to keep it that way.
What are you building with this?
DanK


----------



## CL810

Blanket chest.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Yowzah! I already like that more than any blanket chest I have ever made.

Andy, can you swing by and tune up my mortising machine when you get a chance;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Uh Andy, that frame hints of great things to come. The upper section has my attention fer sure! And those legs, yowza dude.


----------



## CL810

My son and his wife picked out the design when I offered to make a BC for their daughter. Of course they picked the one way above my pay grade! LOL! But it's fun cause I'm doing stuff for the first time (new tools!)



> Andy, can you swing by and tune up my mortising machine when you get a chance;-)
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Will you take me to your secret lumber yards???


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Sure, but you have to wear a blindfold. lawl.

I really should tune my mortising machine as you did. I've just bee dealing with the shaggy mortises by filing or paring them. Always learnin.


----------



## CL810

The big issue I had was over heating which was burning the wood. After just two pulls it would start smoking.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I struggle with that on white oak. Schwarz recommended graphite as a lubricant. It helps some.


----------



## ToddJB

That is a cool frame, Andy. Did you do your mortises before you cut your curves? Or did you come up with a jig to reference your fence?


----------



## yuridichesky

Andy, this frame is almost the same size as my shop is, knowing your craftsmanship level I'm ready to live in this chest when it's complete!


----------



## ColonelTravis

This may very well be a miracle-in-a-can:









A while back I mentioned some dry, rotted areas in a mesquite slab I've been working on. I brushed some of this stuff on a small portion of one of the areas last night, which if you went over with a plane it would just shred to pieces. Heck, go over it with a fingernail and it shreds to pieces. This morning I went over the area I soaked (when it dries everything looks normal, can't tell it was there) and was able to plane it down with a #4 like normal wood. That was impressive. I'm going to soak the entire area and see what happens. There are still some rough spots I'll need to fill with epoxy, and I'm still a little wary about applying a finish over all this gunk. Apparently it's no problem, although if I have to cut off that end of the board, so be it. The entire length has plenty of character. But if I can save it, I'll be dang proud of myself because the grain does look cool.

After a larger area soaks and dries overnight, I'll post a photo of what happens when I plane it down.

Anyone had experience with this stuff?


----------



## ToddJB

Good to know, Colonel! Thanks. And it doesn't look like it's too pricey either.


----------



## bobro

> This may very well be a miracle-in-a-can:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A while back I mentioned some dry, rotted areas in a mesquite slab I ve been working on. I brushed some of this stuff on a small portion of one of the areas last night, which if you went over with a plane it would just shred to pieces. Heck, go over it with a fingernail and it shreds to pieces. This morning I went over the area I soaked (when it dries everything looks normal, can t tell it was there) and was able to plane it down with a #4 like normal wood. That was impressive. I m going to soak the entire area and see what happens. There are still some rough spots I ll need to fill with epoxy, and I m still a little wary about applying a finish over all this gunk. Apparently it s no problem, although if I have to cut off that end of the board, so be it. The entire length has plenty of character. But if I can save it, I ll be dang proud of myself because the grain does look cool.
> 
> After a larger area soaks and dries overnight, I ll post a photo of what happens when I plane it down.
> 
> Anyone had experience with this stuff?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


That's interesting information, as I'm working with some salvaged wood, thanks.

But for some reason I'm seeing a picture of Megan Fox leaning over the engine of a Camaro- is that the image you meant to post?


----------



## CL810

Todd, I made the mortises before I shaped the legs. The thru mortises I did not go all the way through, just past the curve. Then I cut the curve on the bandsaw and then the taper using the taper sled on my table saw.

The pic above is with the first set of legs. Here's today with the second set of legs and a test fit of the veneered panels. The taper cut has not been made yet.










Yuri, come stay with us anytime and we will *not* put you up in the chest. LOL!

While the mortises on the second set of legs came out much better, the bit still drifted outside of the hollow chisel.









The lesson I'm taking from this is for through mortises drill the waste out with a good brad point bit and then use the mortiser. Think I'll work some sawdust and glue into the gaps. These tenons are wedged so I'll chisel out a slight angle for the tenons for the top and bottom shoulders..

Hope this makes sense!?


----------



## lateralus819

CL- If it was me, I'd make a jig with a width 1/16" over the width/length of the mortise and route it. Then do some stringing inlay. Problem solved and it would be a cool decoration.

food for thought.


----------



## CL810

Kevin, that is worth chewing on.


----------



## lateralus819

It would (IMO) be less of an eye sore. It would give it unoformness vs the jaggedness of the "Sawdust filler"

Could either use a contrasting wood or the same to bring less attention to it.


----------



## DanKrager

Yes, now that I see the can again I recognize it as stuff I have used quite a bit of in restoration work. It was what I was wracking my brain trying to remember when the subject of hardeners came up. When I first used it I thought it was a miracle. Clear finishes are no problem, but dyes are iffy. Stains (with pigments) will still hang in the open pores so they pretty much work OK. You might be able to color this stuff before application so it becomes the dye, though I've never tried that. A call to the company might be worthwhile.
DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Cl810, you've got an interesting project going on there. Looking good!
DanK


----------



## john2005

Good info CTravis. I just picked some of that up last month for some spalted boards I have. I have not used it yet but am glad to hear you are having good results so far. Keep us posted on that will ya?

Andy, as always, looking good. I don't have a mortise machine so not much to offer but any project you can learn on is a good one. What mortiser do you have btw?


----------



## MARCIOCRM

> Otherwise, here s some furniture and furniture maker sites we can draw inspiration from.
> http://www.doucetteandwolfefurniture.com/
> (...)


Really nice selection!
Thanks!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Travis- I've seen that stuff in the store but never really known how folks use it. Good to hear.

Andy- I've got a decent way to repair mortises like that. I mean, I heard about a guy who does this….cause I've never jacked a through mortise myself. hehehe. Even made a few dummy pics to help explain.

First I pare just a tiny bit off to give the void a natural curve. This area:

















Then find a like grained cutoff, and cut a little wedgie on the bandsaw like this. Keeping in mind the shape of your repair and grain direction:









Sand or pare the wedge til you get a fit you like. Sometimes I just saw a couple wedges and use the one that fits best. Then drop a little CA glue in the void, and tap in the wedgie. 









If the friction of the wedge is holding, you can flush cut the repair and the sawdust will fill in the rest of the cracks. Little sanding after dry should do it. 









Dare you to find any repair like that on my furniture;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

By the way, I find this saw to be worth it's weight in gold. 









http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=69373&cat=1,42884


----------



## yuridichesky

As many of you probably already know Bob Lang, Chuck Bender and Glen Huey have started their own new project: 360 WoodWorking (though I'd like to know why they all quit Popular Woodworking).

Today they announced first project which is Shaker Shop Stool.

I think this resource is worth to keep in mind and hope they will provide at least some amount of free content.


----------



## CL810

Red, the wedge trick is Kung fu worthy.


----------



## RPhillips

> By the way, I find this saw to be worth it s weight in gold.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=69373&cat=1,42884
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Thanks for the link, I'm actually in need of one of those.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Rob, that double sided one is the best I've found.

Glad it helped Andy. It took me at least 5 minutes to shoot those pics and drink my coffee;-)


----------



## CFrye

> By the way, I find this saw to be worth it s weight in gold.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=69373&cat=1,42884
> 
> - BigRedKnothead
> 
> Thanks for the link, I m actually in need of one of those.
> 
> - RPhillips


Need might be pushing it in my case, but I sure do *want* one!


----------



## mojapitt

Just got the new Lee Valley catalog yesterday. Need to shop for Santa Claus.


----------



## ColonelTravis

*Not* <----

a miracle-in-a-can for my purposes. Wood area was too rotted. Although it planes decently, it dents easily from a not-very-hard blow from a very small hammer. Same blow to a regular area doesn't make a mark.This stuff does improve soft wood (key word). That is impressive. Just can't save everything.

Sorry, board, we're going to have to amputate!


----------



## mojapitt

If you amputate, will it walk with a limb?

Sorry, bad joke.


----------



## CFrye

Still got a chuckle!


----------



## theoldfart

^^^ but will he ever play the violin again? Stay tuned for the next episode of The Colonel's Punky Wood when our hero says "Go ahead Doc, I can handle it"


----------



## Mean_Dean

Hey Guys, got a question for you:

I'm going to make a jewelry box for a female friend as a Christmas gift. I want to use maple for the box front, back, and sides, but can't decide between birdseye or curly. I've heard that the birdseye doesn't take dyes as well as the curly, and that the figure doesn't pop as much.

So what would you all recommend? I want to keep the color of the maple on the lighter side, so as to make the box more feminine.

(I tend to make boxes that are masculine, with hard edges, straight lines, and dark woods like walnut. Since this box is for a woman, I think it should have more rounded edges, curved lines, and lighter woods.)


----------



## ColonelTravis

Wish there were a way to put this directly into comments, all I got is a link:
Instant Rimshot


----------



## theoldfart

^ well done sir


----------



## Iguana

Notice anything wrong?


----------



## mojapitt

It don't cut so well that way.


----------



## jmartel

Not at all, Mark. That's how you un-do a cut you made that took too much off. Reverse the blade to put more wood back on. Trust me, I'm an engineer.


----------



## CL810

That hurt my eyes.

John, a bench top PM.


----------



## CFrye

> Hey Guys, got a question for you:
> 
> I m going to make a jewelry box for a female friend as a Christmas gift. I want to use maple for the box front, back, and sides, but can t decide between birdseye or curly. I ve heard that the birdseye doesn t take dyes as well as the curly, and that the figure doesn t pop as much.
> 
> So what would you all recommend? I want to keep the color of the maple on the lighter side, so as to make the box more feminine.
> 
> (I tend to make boxes that are masculine, with hard edges, straight lines, and dark woods like walnut. Since this box is for a woman, I think it should have more rounded edges, curved lines, and lighter woods.)
> 
> - Mean_Dean


Dean, Red posted some beautifully dyed birdseye a few days ago. Speaking for myself, I can't get enough of looking at curly maple(or any kind of wood with curly figure). When it 'pops' it just begs to be touched. Either one would work, but I vote for the curly.


----------



## Iguana

Jeff, I so wish…

I noticed the problem before I made a cut. I was about to cut 1/2" MDF (see my blog post) and I'm not sure that it would have made a difference on the 5 hp saw.


----------



## theoldfart

Mark, knife on the wrong side?


----------



## john2005

> John, a bench top PM.
> 
> - CL810


I was hoping you wouldn't say that. That's the one on my wish list. I guess the next question is "are all hollow chisels created equal?"


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Mark, you installed the riving knife on the wrong side ya big dummy;-)

Dean- I think curly maple is better suited for a jewelry box than birdseye. 
Here's what birdseye looks like with transtint antique maple dye:









And here's a good example of curly maple with dye:


If you don't want that much color you might have to go with colored shellac or just danish oil.


----------



## mojapitt

I vote for curly maple as well.


----------



## CL810

John I've only used what I would call starter sets. Thinking about trying one of these.


----------



## j1212t

Dear furniture makers, I am in need of help on my kitchen cabinet doors.

I have never done them, so maybe you guys can weigh in. I finally got my materials for my kitchen cabinet doors, they are going to me rail and stile with a raised panel. Oak rail+stiles and maple panels. All solid wood. The 2 larger doors are roughly 32"x24",

here's my question in a 2 parts:
1. How thick materials is standard for this kind of application, are the panel and rails+stiles different thicknesses?
2. How wide should my rail and stiles be?
3. Any other suggestions are more than welcome, this is all new to me, I am good when I look at youtube videos, but I am guessing real life might be a bit more difficult. 

Also, my kitchen countertop is a 26" deep by 2" thick slab of mahogany, if that makes any difference.

Any and all suggestions would be very highly appreciated!


----------



## DanKrager

Jake, I'll jump in here first it looks like. 
1. Solid wood cabinet doors usually start out at 13/16" s3s (milled on three sides). The finished thickness for the doors frames is usually 3/4". Raised panels are done so many different ways, a concise answer would short change the options. The panels are going to rest in a groove (or rabbet) in the frame, so if the panel is 3/4" thick, the door will be heavy and the panel will protrude about 1/4". If you adjust the raised portion thinner and make a rear face cove, the panel can be flush with the frame front and back. If you reduce the panel to 5/8" thick, you lose quite a bit of weight and the panel doesn't protrude so much (without the cove on back). 
2. The rails can vary to taste, but the bottom rail is always (well almost always) wider than the top rail. That's an artistic visual thing that helps visual balance. I use 3 1/2" rails on the bottom and 3" rails on the top most times, especially if the doors include big ones like you plan to. The stiles are usually 2". That is an important dimension if you plan to use European hinges. 
3. Doors that meet without a frame stile between them can (maybe should) have slightly smaller stiles so that the finished pair hanging next to each other doesn't have a "wide plank" appearance where they meet. 
4. It makes a big difference in construction whether you use flush, lipped, or overlay door frames. 
5. Make sure your panels have room to move in the frame. You have very large panels planned, so significant movement might become a problem if you don't allow for it. There are many ways to deal with it, but now is the time to decide.
Ambitious project! Good luck. Keep us up to date with a blog where we can interact with your questions too.
DanK


----------



## Mean_Dean

Candy, Big Red One, and Monte, thanks for your help-Curly it is!


----------



## CFrye

Looking forward to seeing it, Dean.


----------



## TechRedneck

Dean:










Here is a tiger maple box I made last year. I love the way tiger maple changes in the light as you move around it.

project posted HERE


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> Notice anything wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Ultimate safe saw; it can throw wood away from you, but "0" kick back risk ;-)


----------



## j1212t

Thanks a bunch for the info Dank! It is a project way above my skill and tool level, but that's how I do things, I learn as I go. Luckily I have more than enough material for what I need.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jake- think DanK answered that about as well as anyone could. I'd love to show you how the door and drawer look on my current pantry…..but disaster has struck. Really regretting branching out on these drawer slides. I've got the cshardware.com undermount soft close slides installed. Look at this crap.










The installation is correct. There is just that much friggin play/slop in the slide that the drawer sags leaving the front at an angle. Not happy. Got a call into cshardware. The drawers aren't even 1/3 the max weight ratings. Argghhh!


----------



## mojapitt

I buy hardware from Richlieu. I think they are Blum. Never have that problem.


----------



## RPhillips

^ That sucks, hope there's a simple solution…


----------



## CL810

That' same bummer Red. Surely they'll refund or upgrade.


----------



## ShaneA

Are the drawer loaded with anything, or is that how they appear empty? Since I have not used that type before, is there any adjustments that can be made to level out the tilt? I know most the side mounts have some area of adjustments on them. I am sure you have already crossed that bridge.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nah Shane, the drawers are empty. I've messed with them for awhile. Of course the drawers a "front heavy" because of a drawer front. I'll see the what the technical guy at cshardware says. I think the slides are just to cheaply made. I'm gonna go to a local place that has blum and compare. Probably come home with some blums.


----------



## DanKrager

When working in the east I used Grass hardware, but only Blum is available locally. DLawlessHardware.com has record breaking prices on quality (no name) hardware that I've used and been really pleased with. His brick and mortar are just down the road from us. (http://www.dlawlesshardware.com/) He was less than 1/3 the price for 10" full extension side drawer runners, used in our bathroom vanity. I have Blum self closing undermounts in our kitchen now and they are sweet!
Our bathroom vanity using the 10" side mounts on those odd drawers…








DanK


----------



## Hammerthumb

Wow Red. I assume they were straight upon install. That's a lot of sag! Is there a way to adjust them? Or would you have to re-mount the hardware.

I am considering under mount hardware for the trash and re-cycling bins on the kitchen island I am currently building and have some concern over sagging. See left and right openings on the case below.










Does anyone have any thoughts on what may work best? There is vertical plywood pieces (don't have a current pic) separating the center section that has 2 drawers and the lower door. The bottom is currently installed also.


----------



## byerbyer

That's crappy luck, BRK. I'm using some import drawer guides on my kitchen cart (that hasn't made much progress in the last month or so), but they're side mount without the soft-close. I just happen to have (5) pair left from a shop cabinet I built or I would've gone with Blum guides. In my opinion Blum is the "Lie Nielsen" of the guides industry.


----------



## Pezking7p

BRK, that sucks. Too much play in the balls? Or is it that the bracket is flexing under the weight? I wouldn't think it would flex when it's not extended….so weird. I know I don't need to ask you this…but are you sure the brackets are installed square? I'm having a hard time envisioning how this happens unless it's play in the balls, which is probably a lot of the reason why they're cheap…lower tolerances are much cheaper to manufacture.

HT, if you want to be certain about sagging, use regular side mount slides and conceal them with a trim piece, or buy the expensive slides. Alternatively: http://www.cabinetparts.com/p/revashelf-kitchen-pullout-and-builtin-trash-cans-RV4WCSC2150DM2


----------



## ArlinEastman

Red

I like seeing your cabinet pictures.

Hi to everyone here.

I like to look but as Red knows I do mostly turning. He is going to come to my house and give me some advise on the shelves my wife want me to make.


----------



## Waldo88

This has been one entertaining and informative thread to read.

I'm just finishing up my first real furniture build, a small modern occasional table to be a high use mobile coffee table sub in the TV room. Midway through the finishing process now (danish oil->garnet shellac->arm-r-seal).

Moved into a new house last summer that finally had (some) space for a shop after making do with a shelf for my tools at the last place. Finally can become a maker instead of fixer/remodeler. Have a big empty house in need of new/upgraded furniture. Have pieced together enough tools and built enough shop to at least be able to do something.

Got the itch to make furniture, especially MCM style stuff (house is an MCM house that can use plenty of upgrades as well). Long ago I had to choose whether to follow my creative side and become and architect or my practical side and become an engineer. Choose the engineering path, but furniture making definitely fills that creative void. I absolutely adore the process of design.

There is at least some modern furniture in this thread. Very rare for any mentions whatsoever in the woodworking world it seems. Fortunately I have one woodworking skill that comes in very handy for modern furniture; I worked in a door/veerning shop long ago and know a pretty good amount about veneering work; picking up a vaccuum press was one of my highest priority tools (used it for refinishing work prior to actually building on my own). I don't have a lot of shop real estate, so my power tools are limited to a bandsaw, router, miter saw, and drill press (right now, have space for but can't currently afford a planer). Good enough for what I want to do when combined with the hand tools I have.

Wife "ordered" a massive credenza for the TV room today to replace some cheap old crap we have in there currently. This is going to be one heck of a design to work out. Lots and lots of veneer real estate. Doors are a good place to try out a starburst or diamond pattern layup. I've got some bleached highly figured movingue veneer that would look great as an accent dyed a really obnoxious color like orange or teal, paired with a dark base color like walnut or wenge.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well guys, "Blum to the rescue" is the moral of the story. Even when I angled the slides a bit to adjust for the sag, the mechanism didn't work right….and would catch on the bottom while closing. The tech from CShardware called back and pretty much agreed my application was probably too much for the import slides despite their 85lb rating. I told him that I had bought their off-brand side mount ball-bearing slides in the past, and they seemed the same quality as the name brand. These undermounts….not so much. The CShardware guy was very cool about it. He just credited my $40 and told me not to worry about sending them back.

I picked up some blums from a place in Omaha and they installed great. When each slide is installed side by side, and extended all the way out. the cheapy has twice as much play/sag as the blum. Lesson learned. Of course a $10 slide is not gonna be the same as a $25, but I didn't think it'd be that bad.

I think the cheapy slides would be fine in a little bath vanity with small, light drawers, but not on hardwood furniture. Thankfully they install just like the blums so I didn't have to make new drawer boxes.

So, door and drawers are on. Won't be complete until delivery because my sister-in-law has the hardware. 
This thing is so tall I can't get the glare from the shop lights out of the pic. 

















I still think I maybe should have done something different with the drawers….but oh well. Picture it with modern hardware, in a very modern/Asian kitchen…..it oughta look pretty good.


----------



## mojapitt

Very nice sir. She should be thrilled.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Waldo88- welcome to lumberjocks and the Furniture makers forum. If my sister-in-law has it her way I will be making a lot of modern furniture;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Too much play in the balls?
> - Pezking7p


Yes Pez, that pretty much sums up my experiences with cheapy undermount slides. lawl.


----------



## jmartel

Weird about the slides, Red. I used side mount slides from CS on my End tables and they seem to be at least as good as the Home Depot slides on my coffee table. No experience with the Blum hardware.

Wife is chomping at the bit for a new bed/mattress. So, that may get pushed up further on my list of projects. I'll do one more project for the main floor after Christmas, and then it might be bed time.

She wants a substantial bed. Think 6×6 posts large. Still won't pick what kind of wood she wants it out of, but she is focusing more on the reclaimed stuff. So it looks like I may be picking up some reclaimed beams in the future. Going to be a real chore to work with (and to get up 2 flights of stairs).


----------



## jmartel

Waldo, welcome.

I think most woodworkers are drawn to the classic styles like Arts & Crafts, Shaker, Country, etc. and less to the Modern style furniture which is why you don't see much on here. For inspiration, you may want to look more at the Dutch/Northern European styles


----------



## Hammerthumb

That cabinet is almost as tall as you are Red!

Good with the Blum. That is all I have in my kitchen and really like them. Glad it worked out.

Welcome Waldo. Post a few pics of your modern furniture. I'd really like to see it.

Pez - have considered the side mounts for the trash compartments. I think I still have a few, and cabinet construction will allow for them. I'll try to get a few pictures up this weekend.


----------



## lateralus819

Red- You sir did a stellar job on that cabinet. Bravo!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys. It's not a style I'm real confident with, but it's growing on me.



> Wow Red. I assume they were straight upon install. That s a lot of sag! Is there a way to adjust them? Or would you have to re-mount the hardware.
> 
> I am considering under mount hardware for the trash and re-cycling bins on the kitchen island I am currently building and have some concern over sagging. See left and right openings on the case below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any thoughts on what may work best? There is vertical plywood pieces (don t have a current pic) separating the center section that has 2 drawers and the lower door. The bottom is currently installed also.
> 
> - Hammerthumb


Paul, never made those, but I'm sure if you get something rated for the job you'll be fine. Some options here. 
http://www.cshardware.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=trash+slide+out


----------



## Hammerthumb

I think that link was just what I was looking for Red.Thanks! Never seen those before but I'm going to take a serious look at them.


----------



## Hammerthumb

By the way - current picture










I made a slight radius on the bottom rails, and legs. Backs top rail is also has a radius. Floating panels on back and sides.










I also have small castors under one side for easy maneuverability.
Had to make some radius pieces to try the new compass plane. Was a lot of fun and the plane works very well! Hope my wife likes the curves.


----------



## Iguana

> That cabinet is almost as tall as you are Red!
> 
> - Hammerthumb


Based on pictures we've seen, I'm thinking Red could comfortably sleep in one of the drawers…


----------



## Iguana

> I still think I maybe should have done something different with the drawers….but oh well. Picture it with modern hardware, in a very modern/Asian kitchen…..it oughta look pretty good.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


That's a fine looking piece, Red.

I think the drawers look just right as they are. The figure in the maple speaks for itself, nothing else needed.


----------



## Hammerthumb

That's more of Red's trick photography Mark. Cabinet is only 3-1/2 feet tall!


----------



## Iguana

> That s more of Red s trick photography Mark. Cabinet is only 3-1/2 feet tall!
> 
> - Hammerthumb


And he probably could still fit in the drawers


----------



## ToddJB

Looks great, Red. Glad the Blum's were an easy switch.


----------



## Pezking7p

Red, looks fantastic!

Waldo, really lookin forward to seeing your work. I feel like I get stuck in a rut of the same stuff everyone else does.


----------



## JADobson

Red, cabinet looks great, a real pity about those slides. Look forward to seeing it with the hardware.


----------



## Waldo88

Thanks for the welcome. Here is a shot(s) of the little table I'm working on. Almost done. Added the first coat of arm-r-seal.










Pretty basic design overall. When I first started it I lacked some critical pieces of equipment, so had to design around those issues.

- Top is made of a cabinet grade ply core, with solid styles glued in all the way around. I had to use oak because I had no means to rip a board and no means to dramatically change the thickness of a board; it was either that or poplar at the big box mart. Styles are attached with a tongue and groove joint and planed flush. I used solid styles for denting strength and so I could rout a nice edge on it (matches our dining table, a vintage Danish model from an unknown designer). Typical edge banding is crap in this application, this table is going to be abused.

- Top veneer is walnut. It is a quad match using 6 pieces (double quad match?). I hunted for some veneer that could give me an eye/flying saucer like match in the center, to match the light in the TV room that looks a lot like a flying saucer (it is a globe light inside what amounts to the cage of a Nelson light).

- Bottom veneer is oak. I had some sitting around, and it would match the styles and leg mounts. I wanted to get rid of it (confession, I pretty much despise oak, hence the use on the bottom).

- Leg mounts are oak (aforementioned tool issue). Legs are splayed at 10.5 degrees in the 45 degree axis. I drilled the mounts on a drill press. After shaping the mounts, I put a rabbet all the way around, and plunge routed what amounts to a big mortise for them so that they would glue strong and easy.

- Got the legs from the box box mart. Didn't have a way to shape them to make them from scratch. I expected to get oak, but when the order arrived they were ash. I picked up a spokeshave and rasp though, so I may remake them if I grow to dislike these.

Had to stain the legs, sides, and underside to match the walnut (yuck, staining sucks, but it sure beats natural oak). I was originally going to ebonize instead of stain, but the wife wasn't terribly fond of that idea. She's a walnut-aholic and pretty much a hater of all other non-exotics (except for maple in contrast to walnut, but we have a fair amount of that in the house already).

Pretty simple design, but perfect for our needs. Similar to a McCobb designed side table (though with a more refined leg mount and shorter), though a bunch of different sources made a similar design. We don't care for a coffee table in the tv/family room. They take up valuable kiddo play space, are mess attractants in high use areas, are unnecessarily large for their use, and pretty inconvenient. This thing is basically a small mobile coffee table to be used for drinks/computers/food/feet/etc.., repositioned as needed. We've been using a plastic Ikea footstool for this purpose for years, figured it was time for an upgrade.

During the construction I added a bunch of tools (bandsaw, drill press, rasp, spokeshave), and now at least am not really limited design-wise (at least I don't think I am, ignorance is bliss, though being able to do all basic functions and being able to do them easily are two completely different things).


----------



## Waldo88

> Red, looks fantastic!
> 
> Waldo, really lookin forward to seeing your work. I feel like I get stuck in a rut of the same stuff everyone else does.
> 
> - Pezking7p


Well with an interest in Modern furniture, that isn't really an option. The places I get my inspiration from largely have no connection with woodworking (MCM/design boards on pinterest, antique dealers, and stuff like Atomic Ranch), though I have seen some modern stuff here on LJ (including in this thread), largely the reason I chose to post here instead of other woodworking forums I occasionally stumble across.

Though the post earlier in the thread (and the whole series of blog posts about it) about building a copy of The Chair is the greatest thing ever (even though exact copies aren't what I want to do).


----------



## CL810

Red that really turned out great!

Paul, the curve in the top rail really looks good.


----------



## RPhillips

Waldo, man that table looks great.


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen

Waldo, welcome to LJ!
Realy nice table you made. 
I too like modern and mid-century styles. There is not terribly much of that around here but the genneral techinques and approaches are the same and here are a lot to learn. And people here are knowing and super welcoming.
There are a few projects that are worth noting. Here a few from my favorites list:
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/93784
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/37814
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/107273
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/100873
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/105205
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/90999

Perhaps the two of us should get together and make a MCM-club..?


----------



## Bsmith

Although I like making furniture I haven't visited this forum yet. My loss! Great stuff here and lots of inspiration.


----------



## CL810

Welcome Bryan!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yes, Welcome Bryan.

Well, I don't even have the last piece out of my shop and I'm starting the next. Commissioned to make a reclaimed tabletop. The plan is to have a machinist fabricate metal legs. Sumpin like this…









I will be collaborating with one of my best buds for the finish. He's a painter/finisher that specialized in sprucing up old kitchens and the like. Should be fun. I've got the reclaimed lumber and planning on skimming it through the planer. Also figuring on trashing some planer knives in the process;-)


----------



## CL810

Red, do you have a 735 planer?


----------



## CL810

http://www.davidfinck.com

As mentioned in David Barron's blog.


----------



## Waldo88

> Waldo, welcome to LJ!
> Realy nice table you made.
> I too like modern and mid-century styles. There is not terribly much of that around here but the genneral techinques and approaches are the same and here are a lot to learn. And people here are knowing and super welcoming.
> There are a few projects that are worth noting. Here a few from my favorites list:
> http://lumberjocks.com/projects/93784
> http://lumberjocks.com/projects/37814
> http://lumberjocks.com/projects/107273
> http://lumberjocks.com/projects/100873
> http://lumberjocks.com/projects/105205
> http://lumberjocks.com/projects/90999
> 
> Perhaps the two of us should get together and make a MCM-club..?
> 
> - kaerlighedsbamsen


Love some of the projects in those links. That Parquetry cabinet is awe inspiring.

I would bet that MCM style furniture making is going to see an uptick in popularity over time. In the world of "antique" furniture it is hands down the most popular type, by a very significant margin (and MCM houses are very hot properties in real estate). But the attraction is to younger folks, many of whom have no means of making something like that. But the crowd does tend to have a lot of DIY spirit. As people get older and actually amass the tools (and space) to actually make something (as opposed to remodeling and refinishing), I bet the popularity in woodworking will soar. Heck that describes me to a T; always had the interest, just recently attained the means to do more than remodel the home and refinish furniture finds.

I'll never be able to afford some of the $2K+ jaw dropping vintage MCM furniture, but its a great source of inspiration for stuff to make. https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/storage-case-pieces/credenzas/?per=1950s,1960s

..............

Worked with the wife to refine the design for what I'm doing next. Its going to be a 2 piece credenza, one with 4 doors, one with two doors; same doors for each (and overall ht/depth dimensions). Opted to go with a 2 piece design since with 1 piece it would be bordering on 8 ft long and be very heavy and unwieldly. Plus being able to split gives more room arrangement options.

I'm going to try to do the outside in imbuya veneer. I have some right now, it has huge subtle patterns that would be perfect for that large of an area (wife thought most stuff would be too busy). Though I'm going to have to amass a lot more imbuya veneer, which is going to be a challenge.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, do you have a 735 planer?
> 
> - CL810


Nah, just an old delta lunchbox for now. The nice thing is, the knives are cheap and easy


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hello Furniture Forum Contributors!

Looking for ideas on a trestle-based dining room table with sideboard. The table design isn't a problem; lots of good material / images out there to steal from. The sidebard is another issue altogether. The form doesn't lend itself to a low cabinet, seemingly. I'd like the pieces to (essentially) match. Painted bases (dark, distressed) with beetle kill tops on both. Has anyone come across a good design for a trestle-based sideboard?

Here's the best I've come up with, and it's Mission more than trestle. Which is okay, but…










The matching table to that sideboard would be something like this, perhaps (not a great match, but…):










As you've no doubt guessed, I'm not excited about these choices. Hence, the post. Hope there's help out there, thanks.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Smitty,

If you're not excited about either of those two projects, then don't do them. Find something else you can get excited about! If you're not excited about a project, you won't enjoy building it, and really won't enjoy looking at it and using it.

As for trestle tables, check out Tage Frid's book (#3, I believe), or Tommy Mac's Season 1 projects book. Both of these books have plans for nice looking trestle tables, and you should be able to get both books at the library. As for the sideboard, you'll have to ask the better woodworkers in this forum!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Smitty- I think you've reached a common predicament for all of us amateurish furniture makers: What happens when you can't find a plan or design that you like? This conundrum is what drove me to come up with my own design for my tv stand:


Evidently Stickley didn't have flat-screen tvs and dvds. I could find lots of sideboard designs I liked, but they were all too big. So I took some Schwarz advice, I looked at a bunch of sideboards in books and began to sketch several options. When you do this, it's interesting how the characteristics you liked in the pictures began to show up in each sketch. That tv stand is what I came up with. Even after I nailed down the design, I looked a plans for other sideboards to get a plan of attack for the joinery.

All that to say, pick out a trestle table you like….and go with it. Then, look at a bunch of sideboards you like (library or the web) and start to sketch. Finally, borrow some design elements from the trestle table (likely the actual trestle/base) and I think you'll come up with something you like.

Not sure if it helps….but I hope it does;-)

And if anyone does have some cool trestle sideboard designs….post away.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The table I do like:










I'll give some thought to scaling it (somehow) to a sideboard design.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Smitty - I can't claim to be much of a designer. I think when you determine the piece that you want to build around, you need to follow the same them as far as materials, joinery, and most importantly, lines. For example, the first 2 pieces you posted have leg curves opposing each other. They both have slats, but the curves do not mesh well together. You could design for an eclectic style with just the colors and wood matching, but I don't think is what you are looking for.
When you reach the point in others design that does not achieve the goal you are looking for, it is time, as Red said, to venture into your own.
I can envision a true trestle style table with a matching sideboard with a trestle base. I think you are right about the first 2 being more mission style though.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I just keep seeing a sideboard that looks more like a cradle assy vs. a cabinet… Maybe the bench trestle in the pic holds the key…


----------



## ShaneA

Maybe just forego the trestle aspect of the sideboard. Use the same wood, joinery and overall style.


----------



## CFrye

Smitty, is this the kind of painted/natural combo you're going for? This particular one is more boxy than your table.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yes, for the wood / paint combo Candy.

Shane, good point. Might hav to go there.


----------



## Iguana

I made a G&G style table a few years ago, and use that as my avatar. A member here asked me about it, so I decided to post it as a project rather than just email him pics. Project link: http://lumberjocks.com/projects/107844

I have to say that making a G&G piece really forces you to pay attention to getting the details right. And because I made a detailed SketchUp model as the plan, doubly so with the added benefit of forcing myself to learn SketchUp.










The final product turned out almost identical to the plan. That probably means I've got blinders on when I'm following a path


----------



## wormil

I'm not a fan of trestled sideboards and really you don't need two trestles in the same room. A regular sideboard or huntboard will match a trestle table if the overall styles are similar.

Years ago I built a Shaker sewing table. I don't have a picture but here is one like it. I love the design, it's probably my favorite Shaker piece. This could be scaled to a sideboard.
http://www.southernhighlandguild.org/showcases/kentwood/photos/477-ShakerSewingDesk3x5at300dpi.jpg

Here is a traditional huntboard, fantastic design, but doesn't really go with the table you posted.
http://garretthack.com/gallery/truslow/large/symmetrical-huntboard-trusl.jpg

Here is an awesome trestle dining table.
http://woodworkingarticles.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/trestle-table-plans-4.jpg


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## leopard887

Look really nice.


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## mojapitt

This is the style of base that will be on the table I am working on


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## BigRedKnothead

^ ohh, I like that Monte. Ironically I was trying to convince the folks I'm building the reclaimed dining table for to go with a trestle base. The have some reclaimed timbers that would work great for it. Alas, they're stuck on the metal base design.

Delivery time….hehehe. Yes, that is a mattress protecting the top.


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## jmartel

Red, do your kids know that you stole one of their mattresses (with the sheet still on it) to drive it around in the snow? They may have a cold and wet bed tonight.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^heh. Nah, we have a couple extra that go under the bunkbeds for when friends stay the night…..like Stef (bedwetter).


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## Hammerthumb

That's a great idea for transport packing Red! Necessity is the mother of invention. Saw a guy on tv making his own fertilizer using sheep dung. He collects it in a cloth bag, and then throws the tied up bag in a barrel of water. He had to laugh as he said it was one of his wife's pillow cases and though he might get into trouble.


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## ArlinEastman

Red

Great work on the pantry. You are not painting the Birdseye maple are you?
.
.
.
.
I really envy all of you guys and your skills in making furniture.


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## ToddJB

Red, no pics of it resting in its Asian fusion new home?


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## BigRedKnothead

I'll post up a project when I get a chance. Here's what I was talking about concerning the setting.


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## BigRedKnothead

Signed, sealed, delivered. Onto the next.


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## j1212t

That is a beautiful cabinet BRK, I approve! 

Question for cabinetry doors:
I am starting on raising my panels tonight, and after that it is time to start sanding and finishing. The stiles and frames are oak and panel is maple, I want to really pop the grain, but keep it as natural looking as possible. so:

- to keep things as natural as possible I basically have only beeswax+oil mix or shellac (haven't found shellac in my neck of the woods just yet)

So, any big draw-backs to using the linseedoil+beeswax mix. Or should I just bury the fantasy of keeping the kitchen cabinetry natural and go with 5-7 coats of spray on satin lacquer? As the doors will see a lot of abuse.


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## mojapitt

Great job on the cabinet. They should love it for many years to come.


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## dbray45

Nice work!


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## Iguana

Jake,

If you are looking to pop the grain, apply a coat or two of BLO or tung oil (slightly lighter than BLO). Once dry, spray a couple or three coats of lacquer for protection. Pretty easy way to get a natural looming finish with some durability.

Of course, test on scraps first.


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## Iguana

That would be "... natural-looking finish …"


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## j1212t

Excellent, thank you a lot for the info, how long should a BLO finish cure before I spray it with lacquer? Because it seems to me that however long I leave it, it always has a film to it afterwards. (of course, I might be over-applying it)


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## Waldo88

I have a question about joints. Specifically attaching a rail to the end of plywood.

I have a tongue and groove router set that seems to work well, however… If one of the cuts isn't going to turn out great, it is from the tongue bit. It basically puts the edge quality of one of the visible mating surfaces in the hands of a router bit (as opposed to planed or from a jointer). It also has to be matched to the groove with absolute precision. The tongue bit also wastes a lot of stock.

It occurred to me that I could joint a prefect butt joint, then cut grooves in both pieces, matching the groove bit to the thickness of some plywood (1/4" most likely), then cut strips of that plywood to act as the tongue. It would seem this would ensure higher precision and be more wood conservative, and it should be quite strong. I guess this is similar to a biscuit joint on steroids.

Is this sort of joint done? Am I missing a reason it isn't? I've never really heard of doing it like this before, yet it seems like it would be so effective. Granted if the joint is visible you'd want to do a standard t+g, but when concealed and used for strength, this seems like it would be the way to go.


----------



## bobro

> I have a question about joints. Specifically attaching a rail to the end of plywood.
> 
> I have a tongue and groove router set that seems to work well, however… If one of the cuts isn t going to turn out great, it is from the tongue bit. It basically puts the edge quality of one of the visible mating surfaces in the hands of a router bit (as opposed to planed or from a jointer). It also has to be matched to the groove with absolute precision. The tongue bit also wastes a lot of stock.
> 
> It occurred to me that I could joint a prefect butt joint, then cut grooves in both pieces, matching the groove bit to the thickness of some plywood (1/4" most likely), then cut strips of that plywood to act as the tongue. It would seem this would ensure higher precision and be more wood conservative, and it should be quite strong. I guess this is similar to a biscuit joint on steroids.
> 
> Is this sort of joint done? Am I missing a reason it isn t? I ve never really heard of doing it like this before, yet it seems like it would be so effective. Granted if the joint is visible you d want to do a standard t+g, but when concealed and used for strength, this seems like it would be the way to go.
> 
> - Waldo88


Sure, that's a splined or slip-tongue joint. On solid wood you glue only one, or neither, side.

Another version which isn't appropriate for plywood but works amazingly well on solid woods is to have a number of small floating tenons going relatively deep into each member. For some reason this is very strong- it's used in Chinese furniture. You could call that the proto-Domino, and if they cut a bunch of little tenons first and had them lying around, I bet they'd dry more than the larger members, then swell back up later.


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## waho6o9

Spline joints rock.

If I understand you correctly that is….


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## BigRedKnothead

^Yup, if you can find a slot cutter bit, and a type of ply that are similar thickness…..a guy can bust those out all day.

Jake- Ideally you'd want to seal the blo with dewaxed shellac. I can't speak directly to blo drying times, because I'm not sure, but I do know you'd want to thin it to speed up curing.


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## bobro

That's the one- if the pieces are small enough, you can even do it on a table saw. If the plywood is joined to solid wood you can glue the spline into the plywood but have it glueless into the solid wood.


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## Waldo88

Sweet, thanks for the info. A spline joint is exactly what I was talking about.

The T&G router set I have is adjustable, so I can match it to the thickness of whatever the spline is without issue.

How wide does the solid wood have to be before you start worrying about wood expansion and not glue one/both side? In the application I'm thinking about, the solid wood would be limited to 1" at most, just a way to put a high quality edge/corner on some ply (or MDF/Melamine).

Eventually I'm going to use it for a cabinet I'm working on (by working on I mean designing, still haven't picked up any stock to begin work). I want to use use solid edges after veneering for the durability; chipped veneer at the corners is very common damage in older furniture, this should eliminate that. Plus it will allow me to round the corners, making it more toddler-safe.

I was going to try it out this weekend, the wife asked me to build some new shelves for a small bathroom closet. I was thinking melamine with a poplar edge on the face side would make a real nice (and cheap) shelf. A spline joint would be perfect. The old shelves are painted/wallpapered solid pine that seemed to have picked up the smell of litterbox from previous owners and the boards have cupped a bit over the years (though they were jointed correctly to account for this). Instead of tossing the old shelves though, I'm going to plane them down real good and make a box for my planes, which need a good home. A good excuse to make a box joint jig for the router table.

When I get a chance I'll post a pic of an experiment I'm working on. I wanted to test out the viability of doing a starburst layout of some bleached movingue I have, then dying it, and using it for cabinet doors. The figure is a lot like tiger maple, so in a starburst it makes a diamond/circular pattern. Currently building up a thick layer of shellac to really pop the figure. Iffy on the viability for cabinet doors, however the experiment is going to become a very cool (hopefully) clock.


----------



## bobro

I'd call say 3/4" strips fat edge banding and not worry about it. Just be sure if you get your poplar from your "Borg" that you get some extra and let it acclimatize in the home environment. Borg woods are hit and miss as far as dryness and quality, and some will be stable while others will cup and twist within a single day. And in my opinion finish the poplar with something thick and marine in the bathroom, because bathrooms are hard on wood.

With relatively thick banding and splines, you won't need three-way clamps, you can just glue it up like boards. You can also cut grooves on both sides of a double-wide piece of banding, glue shelves on either side, then rip down the middle of the banding to separate them into two shelves. This is good because it takes fewer clamps to glue everything all at once, is easier to register everything flat and true, there's no clamping directly on the edging (which tends to make it want to cock upward even with t+g or splines) , and the whole business is safer because you're not working with such thin stock. Much better to cut grooves on either side of a 2 inch wide board than cut a groove on a 1 inch wide board, whether with router or tablesaw.


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## Waldo88

Cutting both grooves at the same time and ripping down the middle is exactly what I plan to do (though I'm not going to glue both together as I don't have any long enough clamps. Ended up getting Cedar. Went to the lumber yard to pick up some walnut for another project; the cedar was cheaper and it seems like a more appropriate wood anyway for this application.

Anway, here is an experiment I did with a sunburst layup, checking if it would make a good cabinet door:



















I don't think its going to make a good cabinet door. I didn't get much breaking in the middle (which can be an issue with this veneer pattern), but I think the effect is much stronger when it is tilted 45 degrees. The second photo contains an example of the raw veneer. After applying it to the wood I dyed it orange, and have put a fair amount of garnet shellac on it at this point (going for a French polish ultimately). If the veneer was a lot wider it would work as I could get that 45 degree tilt, but alas, the stuff I have isn't very wide.

The further you are on the corner the more it exaggerates the figure:









You don't get that effect nearly as strongly when shifted 45 degrees.

(as usual, photographs don't do a very good job capturing the figure in wood, this effect is quite intense).

Anyway, it was an interesting experiment which is ultimately going to become a clock. I'm going to do a starburst thing with it. The walnut I picked up is for a frame of sorts, some rays (at 30, 60 degrees), and going to be used for a circle of 12 inset dots.


----------



## bobro

Yeah that looks very pretty but kind of overpowering for a cabinet door! Maybe a liquor cabinet.

I agree that cedar is a better choice- I find poplar a kind of soggy or mushy wood, don't know how to describe it (paints great though). In my opinion there are two kinds of woods suited for bathrooms. One is tropical woods commonly used on ships, and the other is firs used in for example Finnish saunas. The woods between these two extremes tend not to fare so well.


----------



## Waldo88

> Yeah that looks very pretty but kind of overpowering for a cabinet door! Maybe a liquor cabinet.
> 
> I agree that cedar is a better choice- I find poplar a kind of soggy or mushy wood, don t know how to describe it (paints great though). In my opinion there are two kinds of woods suited for bathrooms. One is tropical woods commonly used on ships, and the other is firs used in for example Finnish saunas. The woods between these two extremes tend not to fare so well.
> 
> - bobro


The use I had in mind was a little cabinet/table thing for the entryway to the home. It could definitely take a very loud look there, but the mounting angle for a cabinet door just makes it blah.

Well it is a closet, so the moisture issues aren't nearly as bad as the rest of the bathroom area. Cedar at least seems durable, and the issue I'm replacing the shelves for in the first place, smelling like old litterbox, aromatic cedar is about the best possible choice.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Waldo- I made an end table with a top like that back in the day, cept oak. Mitered a frame around it.

That is all


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## DanKrager

Waldo, remember that wedges were used LONG before there were clamps with Archimedes screws! Just sayin'.
DanK


----------



## byerbyer

Wow, solid work going on around here. Keep it up folks!

I've been away at CNC school for work the last week or so, and have been woefully behind on LJ's and shop time… Good to see you're all keeping at it!


----------



## JerryLH

Absolutely beautiful you are quite the artesian.



> Hi,
> Some beautiful projects displayed here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is my contribution to this thread: Following plans and patterns is very tasking for me. I rarely ever copy my own creations because of it; although creating your own design can be time consuming and frustrating. I guess is the challenge that turns me on about it. Most of the times my projects turn out o.k.; at times I end up with glued up firewood. This feminine executive desk went to my lovely wife.
> 
> - mrjinx007


----------



## CL810

+1 ^


----------



## CL810

All the pieces finally came together for the first dry fit.









It's all cherry and I wanted some element to be different so I used Birdseye maple to veneer the inside of the lid panels. Think I like it.










Now on to fine tuning the fit.


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## JerryLH

I'm new to LJ's - but new or not - I am amazed and in awe of the work I see on this thread - a huge hoo-rah to so many of you. (Now-- I have to rebuild my - 'yes, I'm a woodworker' self image).


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## CFrye

Nice surprise when you open the lid. I like it!
Welcome, Jerry! This is the place to learn.


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## Brit

Haven't been here for a while, but enjoyed catching up. Keep up the good work chaps.


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## theoldfart

Andy,2 thumbs up dude!


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## BigRedKnothead

Nice Andy. Curves a lot more work, but they bring a lot to a piece.


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## RPhillips

Nice looking piece. Love the curved legs.


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## BigRedKnothead

Just a till for my turning tools. I know it would be easy to just screw boards like this together…...but the joiner in me just hates to do that. Through wedged tenons it is. It's good practice


----------



## ToddJB

That's a lot of slots there, Red. I thought you only had a couple carbides. Looks like your expanding!


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## BigRedKnothead

Oh, Arlin gave me a bunch of different tools. I only know how to use the carbides…lawl. But I'm learning.

As I learned with my saw till…..just make it big enough to begin with.


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## jmartel

I really need a saw till. And a plane till. And lots of other tool storage.


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## ToddJB

Oh nice. I need to get some different tools. Mine are old carbon steel. I would like to get an HSS set up and a couple of carbides. I'll likely end up making the carbides ones.


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## lateralus819

I understand the "No screws" methodology. I refuse to use screws.

I like to learn on any and every project when i can.


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## mojapitt

Sometimes screws are necessary. Just have to try to keep everyone else from knowing that they are there.


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## CL810

Thanks guys.

Red, you're right about the curves adding some extra work. But I think they are fun because you really feel like you're adding something extra and different from the normal 90 degree work.

Candy, that's exactly the effect what I was hoping for. Can't wait for the finish.


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## ArlinEastman

> The matching table to that sideboard would be something like this, perhaps (not a great match, but…):
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Smitty

That sure would be a nice head board for a bed. My wife is wanting one and we never had one.


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## ArlinEastman

Red

I have forgotten the bread board. Did you get the grove in it yet?


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## jmartel

> Smitty
> 
> That sure would be a nice head board for a bed. My wife is wanting one and we never had one.
> 
> - Arlin Eastman


Wine rack included, of course.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Hey Guys/Gals,

Ok, so I'm about ready to begin work on the jewelry box I mentioned earlier. I picked up the curly maple this morning, and am wondering which finishing schedule to use.

The box is for a female friend, and will feature a curly maple body, and walnut legs and top. I'd like to keep the maple reasonably white, but really want to bring out the figure in the curly maple. I'm willing to go a lightish brown on the maple, as it will match nicely with the walnut, so let me know what you recommend!

Thanks!


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## lateralus819

Vintage maple transtint applied, then sanded back. Should keep it white but pop the grain.

Or you can sand it back and apply another coat. Does the same thing but darkens the whole piece.

You can adjust the darkness by how much or little of the tint you use.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red
> 
> I have forgotten the bread board. Did you get the grove in it yet?
> 
> - Arlin Eastman


Shoot, I forgot about that thing too Arlin. It's sitting by the stack of books I borrowed. I'll try and get her done.



> Sometimes screws are necessary. Just have to try to keep everyone else from knowing that they are there.
> 
> - Monte Pittman


Ya Monte, I use them all the time too. Just can't bear use them as the primary joinery…..and stare at those screwheads;-)


----------



## CFrye

Dean, I am watching for the answer to that one myself. 
Kevin, when you say 'sanded back' what grit, how far?


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## Waldo88

> Ya Monte, I use them all the time too. Just can t bear use them as the primary joinery…..and stare at those screwheads;-)
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I could be totally wrong on this, but screws seem to be extremely useful for hard to clamp joints during glue up.

For example, as I've been working through the design of the credenza I'm working on, I've settled on screwing the end rails to the top with pocket screws for no reason other to clamp the splined joint. The top is going to be just over 8 ft long, attempting to clamp the joint would be an exercise in futility (I'm sure there are ways I can't see, but pocket screws are a simple solution).

On one particularly curvy table I restored, this is how all the joints were originally done; all the joints were screwed and glued, clearly the screws took the place of clamps as there was no feasible way to clamp the joints without a custom clamp for the joint.


----------



## CL810

This website be of interest to some.


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## CL810

Ooops. Somehow the link above went to a wrong page. Here's the correct link.


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## Mean_Dean

> Dean, I am watching for the answer to that one myself.
> Kevin, when you say sanded back what grit, how far?
> 
> - CFrye


Candy,

I think I know what he means. When I built my Morris chair, the finishing schedule I used called for applying a coat of Transtint dye, letting it dry, then sanding it lightly with 320. The ray fleck is denser than the surrounding QSWO and absorbs less of the dye. Sanding removes most of the dye from the ray fleck, and when the stain, and then shellac are applied, it really pops the rays!

So, that's what I think he's saying-but I don't want to assume, and am looking forward to more info!


----------



## CL810

I need help from the esteemed panel.

I like the torsion hinges from Rockler because they protect fingers. I need flush hinges for this chest and to make their hinges flush you must make large mortises to accommodate both sides of the hinge.









I'm not sure I will like the look of that. Has anyone done that? What options are there that will keep the lid from slamming on fingers? The chest is for my granddaughter and I can't have her getting hurt can I?


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## jmartel

Use these style:

http://www.rockler.com/toy-box-lid-supports-right-mount

And whatever mortised hinges you want.


----------



## RPhillips

My thought would be to go with the hinges if possible. Those type of toy box lid support mechanisms rely on the little screws to hold them in place and over time the screws will develop play and they will fail with any significant use. We had something similar for my son and it failed after about a years use. YMMV


----------



## JADobson

Looking good everyone. Red, I'm liking the lathe tool holder. Mine just sit on a pegboard. Might need to do something about that.

I just finished the first of my table legs. 

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content










I'm pretty happy with it except for a few tear outs that had to be filled with putty. Also not really happy with thr teo beads near the bottom. They look a little funny. Bigger concern is some of the laminated seams aren't very tight. I'm not that great with a plane and don't have a planer. It makes me nervous having those gaps there while it is spinning on the lathe. So I'm looking for some solid 6×6 beams. My local lumberyard doesn't carry any but I found a timber framer fairly close who may be able to help me out. Just waiting to hear back from him


----------



## ShaneA

Clayton, I have mortised in that type hinge before because I didnt realize at the time it is for 3/4" stock and I had used 5/4"...oops. I will also echo that the screws are the weak link and I have had them break over the years on various projects. The one JMart linked has worked for me in the past. They are not as attractive, but effective.


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## BigRedKnothead

> I need help from the esteemed panel.
> 
> I like the torsion hinges from Rockler because they protect fingers. I need flush hinges for this chest and to make their hinges flush you must make large mortises to accommodate both sides of the hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I m not sure I will like the look of that. Has anyone done that? What options are there that will keep the lid from slamming on fingers? The chest is for my granddaughter and I can t have her getting hurt can I?
> 
> - CL810


Andy I've installed the torsion hinges both ways. The blanket chest in my living room does not have a mortise. However, if you look at the lid from the side, it angles slightly toward the front….because of the thickness of the hinge in the back. It doesn't bother me that bad, but I've intended to change it.

On the last chest I made I mortised these hinges. Can barely see here:








I was concerned about the look. However, if you get the mortises clean with a smooth bottom, I don't think it looks bad at all. When you look at it, aesthetically it makes sense with the hinge. Hope it helps.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Hey Guys/Gals,
> 
> Ok, so I m about ready to begin work on the jewelry box I mentioned earlier. I picked up the curly maple this morning, and am wondering which finishing schedule to use.
> 
> The box is for a female friend, and will feature a curly maple body, and walnut legs and top. I d like to keep the maple reasonably white, but really want to bring out the figure in the curly maple. I m willing to go a lightish brown on the maple, as it will match nicely with the walnut, so let me know what you recommend!
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> - Mean_Dean


Dean, as Mark said earlier, BLO will be you best bet to display figure and not add too much color. However, if you really want the figure to show, you'll want to add some color. Most folks use aniline dyes, as I did on my last piece. 
Good vid on that here: http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/pop-goes-the-maple/

Another option is just use some colored shellac for the first coat. I used some amber shellac on this marking knife:









I like both ways. Shellac is easier.


----------



## DanKrager

Dobson, a one piece 6×6 will likely give you problems that make the laminated problems look small. First, unless the wood has been cured for a very very long time, like much more than six years, it is probably not dry. Most kiln operators frown on kiln drying heavy stock like that because the losses are so high. It also takes that long to acclimate fully. If the post is not cut from the log just so, it is more likely to split and check. If the grain is not straight as a string and clear, it will eventually give you a problem. It is rare that pieces that large can be air dried successfully to remain straight after turned. Cutting material away from a stable piece changes the internal dynamics enough to cause problems. 
IMHO, stay with laminated pieces. Get them glued up as tightly as you can alternating the grain. Glue fill any gaps as soon as they are uncovered by using syringes or compressed air to blow the glue into the crack. If it is a gap that will show, use some sanding dust mixed with glue as a putty to fill it. 
******************** luck and keep posting. It's rewarding (vicariously) to see the progress.
DanK


----------



## ArlinEastman

Red

Shellac does a great job on sealing up woods pores. I like the knives.


----------



## CFrye

Red, easier finishing? Yes, please! Please explain the shellac process.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Big Red One,

Thanks for the link, and the advice. I'm curious, too, about the shellac process. I have some amber shellac that I used on my Morris chair-is that what you're talking about?

Anyway, off to view the video!


----------



## CL810

Thanks guys. Root canal this afternoon, going to bed.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Ok, just watched the Wood Whisperer video, and here's the essence of it:

-In a Dixie cup, add 7-8 drops of Vintage Maple Transtint dye. Fill the cup to 1/2 way with Zinsser Bull's Eye Seal Coat clear dewaxed shellac.

-Apply this tinted shellac liberally to the curly maple, and let dry completely (1-2 hours)

-Sand "pretty aggressively" with 220 grit.

-Top coat with oil-based polyurethane. Apply the poly, let it sit for 2-3 minutes, then wipe off the excess with a clean rag. Apply 3-4 coats, sanding between coats with 320 grit.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dean- I actually meant to link this video: http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/you-and-dye/comment-page-2/

Although they're all educational. I've never mixed the dye with shellac. I've only mixed it with water. My process from my last piece: 
I went with Transtint vintage maple dye on the birdseye maple. This was a first for me and I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. Basically, I applied a darker water-based mixture for the first coat, then sanded it back after dry. Then, I made a lighter mixture and applied another coat. Sealed them with zinnser sealcoat (dewaxed shellac), and satin poly. The rest of the cabinet just has satin poly.

I hate to act like an expert because that's the only method I've used with dyes, but it was a success.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, easier finishing? Yes, please! Please explain the shellac process.
> 
> - CFrye


Shellacs are something i've been using more and more. The premixed zinnser variety are very convenient. The marking knife above has two coats of zinnser amber shellac, and some paste wax. Now, the amber and blonde zinnser shellac's have wax and they are not supposed to be topcoated with poly or lacquer because the wax will supposedly cause the finish to peel. Waxed shellac is meant to be french polished….which is a whole method of finishing unto itself.

However, zinnser's "sealcoat" product is dewaxed shellac and can be topcoated with anything. Apart from the Zinnser products, you can buy all sorts of shellacs in the flake form that dissolve in DNA.

All that to say, colored shellacs add some pop to figured woods as well. On a jewelry box, could just use shellac as the finish, and learn to french polish. Or just use a colored dewaxed variety to get the look….then add a topcoat.

And that's all I know about that. ;-)


----------



## Pezking7p

Love the chest cl8.

Only furniture-ish, but I wanted to share my plate rack. Some of you may remember a post of me shaping the face frame with a spokeshave and rasp. I angled the rack back so the dowels don't hide the plates. The lower set of dowels is hidden and offset slightly to splay the plates a little. This also has the effect of rolling the plates forward so that they always rest against the front of the rack, and never roll backwards.




























Won't be long before I'm back to furniture making.


----------



## ToddJB

Nice Pez. You wouldn't find that in stock at Home Depot.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Big Red One,

Thanks for all the videos and your personal input!

I think what I'm going to do is, mix up the dye/seal coat recipe and make a test board. Then make another test board with the amber shellac I already have. Whichever one pops the grain best is what I'm going to use.

I'll keep you guys posted!


----------



## Pezking7p

Just FYI dean, I was not a big fan of putting the dye in the shellac. I felt it did not penetrate well and sanding was difficult to control. Some areas would get too much sanding trying to get the shellac off.


----------



## Waldo88

I'm working on a French polish using a garnet dewaxed shellac on the veneer sunburst I posted a page ago or so, that veneer once dyed kinda looks like curly maple. Nothing brings out figure quite like shellac. The name garnet is a bit deceptive, its more of a really dark orange. Its taking forever since I'm using the shellac for pore filling as well, which is a slow process when working on it here and there.

Non-blond shellacs are the warmest finishes, I use that aspect a lot. Every oil based finish has somewhat of a yellow tint, and nitro lacquers can be a dirty brownish yellow, whereas shellac is always various degrees of saturation of orange. I think a good orange shellac looks heavenly on walnut. I've actually considered skipping the shellac and trying to tint a simple to use varnish orange to give it a shellac like look.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Dean, test boards are always a good idea. Remember you can thin that premixed amber shellac with DNA.

I think you'll see what I was getting at with the shellac process just being a bit easier. Well, less steps anyway. Buff on a couple coats and you'll have your color (pop), and clearcoat. The dyes are great, but have many steps.

Let this one bake your noodle…. Sunburst guitar

Shows ya how the fun you can have with dyes.


----------



## CL810

That was interesting Red. Gonna research the Tru oil finish. Never heard of putting an oil on top of shellac. Interesting.

Also surprised the jumps on grit size he made when sanding, 80-180-400!

Can't argue with results.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Andy, I watched a bunch of different aniline dye methods one day when I was stuck in a hotel. I chuckled because….every person had a different take on it- their own twist. There were a couple universals I saw: sanding back the early coats, and sealing the dye with shellac. That's why I stuck with those two.

Dyes are just another woodworking tangent a guy could go off on


----------



## jmartel

80-180-400? I think I would put another grit between them, if it was me. Say 80-120-180-220-400.

Of course there's also no real benefit to doing more than 220grit as well from my understanding.


----------



## Waldo88

So I have a question for y'all, how long do you typically spend on design?

I mean the whole process, from piecing together the general idea, to figuring out all the little details and troublesome areas, to figuring out how you'd actually build it, producing an actual sketch, and revising.

I really have no idea of how others typically do it. Are there designs you spend months/years thinking about before you're ready to build? I think my frame of reference on this issue is a little screwed up as I design things for a living (design engineer).

I'm sort of wrestling with an issue. At the moment I've got about 7-8 designs kicking around in the noggin. 2 of them I've been working on for months (quite a useful use of my "stuck in commuting traffic" time), are fully hashed out, and I'm ready to sketch out the final design and build. However these are low priority things for the wife, she really wants a big cabinet she asked me for, but I don't like the idea of fast tracking the design; the wow factor takes time to really come up with. It bothers her when I spend money and time on low priority (for her) projects. Yet for me I know the final product would be much better than something else that is a higher priority for her.

The best solution I suppose is to tinker on little projects (mostly for the shop) made from the scrap bin for the time being as I work out the ins and outs of the design of what she really wants, even though one of the designs I've been working on is just dying to get made at this point.


----------



## ArlinEastman

I have a question for you guys.

I love G&G and Dovetails so can I make DT for G&G?


----------



## CL810

> 80-180-400? I think I would put another grit between them, if it was me. Say 80-120-180-220-400.
> 
> Of course there s also no real benefit to doing more than 220grit as well from my understanding.
> 
> - jmartel


I'd add 150 as well. I read once to never skip over a grit. It has made sanding so much easier for me. Ymmv


----------



## jmartel

I usually do 100-120-150-180-220 myself. That, or use a scraper and then 220.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I have a question for you guys.
> 
> I love G&G and Dovetails so can I make DT for G&G?
> 
> - Arlin Eastman


Sure, some folks use through dovetails on G&G. Like this:


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I usually do 100-120-150-180-220 myself. That, or use a scraper and then 220.
> 
> - jmartel


Back to the dyes, there are some folks who swear you don't want to use finer grits (more than 120) prior to the first coats of dye, or the dye won't absorb the same. I find this to be a delicate balance. One thing is for certain about dyes….they will highlight any defect or scratch

Also, on my last piece, I learned that any edge joining should be done in an aesthetically pleasing manner when using dyes. (centered on the door panel, drawer front, etc.) I had to edge glue pieces to be wide enough for the drawer fronts. I thought I did a great job matching the woods while bare….but the seams were highlighted with dye. Always learning.


----------



## ToddJB

> 80-180-400? I think I would put another grit between them, if it was me. Say 80-120-180-220-400.
> 
> Of course there s also no real benefit to doing more than 220 grit as well from my understanding.
> 
> - jmartel


I think HIS benefit to doing 400 was the application he was doing with the sunburst. He was blending dark to light by removing material. The 400 allows for more finesse.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> Let this one bake your noodle…. Sunburst guitar
> 
> Shows ya how the fun you can have with dyes.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


It worked, Red. I'm pretty well baked! Thanks for posting ;-)


----------



## Pezking7p

Drawer questions:

-When using premade drawer sides for kitchen cabinets, what do you put in the 1/4" slot for the bottom? 1/4" plywood is too small. I'm going to glue, brad, and wedge then in, but for future reference it might be nice to know. Next time I guess I'll make my own sides maybe? Just didn't want to waste time finishing them.

-I've got three drawers that are about 29" wide. Bottom construction is the same as described above. How best to brace the bottoms? Just cut some strips and glue them to the bottom? Brads from the sides, too? I think if I had it to do over I would rabbet some 1/2" ply to fit. Probably for all the drawers.


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## DanKrager

Pez, IMHO 1/4" ply is too thin for drawer bottoms in the kitchen. Stuff gets heavy. Use minimum 3/8" or 1/2" and rabbet around to fit the groove.
DanK


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## DanKrager

Re-reading… I really didn't answer your question… You wanted to know what to do to reinforce the existing 1/4" panels you have put in. I'd recommend cutting more 1/4" or 3/8" ply panels to fit under the 1/4" and laminate them together. Use plenty of glue and let the glue dry while the drawers are upside down so excess glue will run into the sloppy groove and the original bottoms are tight to the top of the dado.
DanK
edit: if, while the drawers are upside down drying, you put a very heavy weight in the center to crown the bottom about 1/8" I think that would add a great deal of strength to the bottom. Just thought.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I've also cut additional 1/4" plywood, and dropped it inside a drawer to reinforce them. Works well.


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, playing devils advocate here

edit: if, while the drawers are upside down drying, you put a very heavy weight in the center to crown the bottom about 1/8" I think that would add a great deal of strength to the bottom. Just thought.

Chance of the sides bowing out after the glue dries and you release the weight?


----------



## DanKrager

Kevin, there is that possibility over time with a very, very heavy weight in the drawer, but theoretically the weight would have to overcome the glue bond between the sheets. If the glue is say, white Elmer's, then the joint could crawl, but with yellow aliphatic or hide glue, not so much. In my thinking, the glue is acting like the keystone of a stone arch. With only 1/8" arch, if it failed the sides might expand microscopically, probably not enough to hamper drawer operation. 
29" is a HUGE open span for a drawer. Usually that's the maximum span for a shelf at 3/4" thick. I would probably put a fixed divider in the middle (front to back) and secure the bottom to it in addition.

DanK


----------



## Pezking7p

Thanks for all the replies. I didn't see any replies before I put the drawers together so I ended up just bracing the bottom with some 1/2" this maple strips. Seems to have really stiffened the bottoms. You have to punch really hard to get them to deflect. I may go back and glue in some extra ply in the bottoms.

If you're reading this, just make your drawer bottoms out of 1/2" ply!


----------



## Iguana

Waldo -

As long as it takes  Sometimes designs pop into my head, fully-formed, and the only delay is getting them into the computer. Other times, a concept gets revised and revised and revised and revised for months.

I keep a sketchbook for ideas. Usually focusing in on details instead of large forms. I find the act of sketching them out lets me solidify the visual so that when it comes time to power up the computer (SketchUp) I can focus more on the drafting than the creating.

It is iterative, though. The 3D model is immensely helpful to make sure the vision comes out right and seeing what emerges lead to refinements or new ideas.

Once the model is "done", it is easy to produce measured drawings and start the build.

I find curvy stuff difficult in SketchUp. Probably would be the same in any other 3D modeller. For that, I go back to sketching. The model gets and approximation of what I'm looking for, and I'll work to get the curves right with pen and paper.

I figure, at a minimum, 8-10 hours of work on a design before I cut wood.


----------



## byerbyer

Finally made it back into the shop this weekend. This has been the longest "quick" project I can remember doing. I cut the drawer heads to just fit the openings (like you a tenon to a mortise) so I could plane each to fit their opening with a consistent reveal.









Here they are with a "6 playing card" reveal around each side (or about 1/16".) I'm hoping after paint the reveal is somewhere between 1/32 and 1/16. 









Here's a shot of the drawers extended.









The design came from a set of plans my dad had lying around from an old FWW magazine (I think.) I like the overall look & more importantly my "client" (read: girlfriend) likes it, and that's all that really matters. I regret not taking more time to analyze the design on paper or in SketchUp as the drawer stack presented more problems than it should have. For instance, if you look at the middle drawer in the last pic you may be able to see it, but the cabinet member of that drawer guide catches the top of the bottom drawer head when open the middle drawer only. Not the end of the world, I'll just have to more the guide up on the drawer and cabinet side… but could've been avoided if I'd paid closer attention to the details. Just another learning experience in this wonderful hobby of ours!


----------



## dbray45

Arlin -

In my book - if you are making a commissioned replica of a piece for someone, then you have to follow the design. If you are making it for you - you do what you want - use dovetails or not, it is yours to make as you see fit.


----------



## Waldo88

> Waldo -
> 
> As long as it takes  Sometimes designs pop into my head, fully-formed, and the only delay is getting them into the computer. Other times, a concept gets revised and revised and revised and revised for months.
> 
> I keep a sketchbook for ideas. Usually focusing in on details instead of large forms. I find the act of sketching them out lets me solidify the visual so that when it comes time to power up the computer (SketchUp) I can focus more on the drafting than the creating.
> 
> It is iterative, though. The 3D model is immensely helpful to make sure the vision comes out right and seeing what emerges lead to refinements or new ideas.
> 
> Once the model is "done", it is easy to produce measured drawings and start the build.
> 
> I find curvy stuff difficult in SketchUp. Probably would be the same in any other 3D modeller. For that, I go back to sketching. The model gets and approximation of what I m looking for, and I ll work to get the curves right with pen and paper.
> 
> I figure, at a minimum, 8-10 hours of work on a design before I cut wood.
> 
> - Mark Kornell


I like the idea of a sketchbook, I might borrow that idea. A good place to keep a record of ideas as they come.

I still haven't bothered with the 3-D modeling, I'm a bit of an old-school engineer in that I can typically convey what needs conveying (especially to myself) on a sheet or two of engineering paper; the CAD work is just window dressing. Right now I do all the 3-D modeling in my head then draw out the important points needed for construction.

For all the "ink" out there on all aspects of building stuff out of wood, surprisingly little is on design. I suppose in part that is because a lot of the people showing you how to do things are also selling plans.

Saw an ad for a great idea (Housefish Key Modular Storage) that is really causing me to rethink aspects of the credenza design I'm working on. That stuff is so simple yet it looks (and appears to function) really great.


----------



## Iguana

Waldo,

The main point of SketchUp for me is to be able to view the piece as a whole in 3D. Look at it from different perspectives, try different curves or proportions.

Secondarily, I can figure out some of the internal bits, making sure all the parts will work together. I can do this on paper, too, but if I've got the model already…



> For all the "ink" out there on all aspects of building stuff out of wood, surprisingly little is on design. I suppose in part that is because a lot of the people showing you how to do things are also selling plans.


I do find that the few ww'ing books on "design" are just plans. Useful if you want to make a copy. Some of the ones that focus on a specific style (e.g., Darrell Peart's G&G books) are good in learning how to use and make specific details. Even so, I prefer David Mathias' book as a broader study of the G&G style.

You're a design engineer - how would the design process differ from what you are used to (?and went to school for?) because the medium is primarily wood?


----------



## Waldo88

> You re a design engineer - how would the design process differ from what you are used to (?and went to school for?) because the medium is primarily wood?


Engineering design is at its core an efficiency problem; while there may be creativity employed regarding approach, you are always trying to solve the problem the cheapest and fastest while maintaining acceptable performance. To create a design I start by identifying the key variables; once they are at their most efficient point the design itself is at its most efficient point.

Furniture design is much more like architecture, hence the reason there is a huge amount of architect crossover in furniture design (heck the Bauhaus school combined them into a single thing, aspects of designing the space). For creative design like that, the process is much different. It seems much more iterative; come up with a design then continually revise it over and over, improving it with each iteration (where improvement is largely aesthetic, though some construction mechanics may be improved), a process that could be seemingly infinite. I don't really have any professional experience with that sort of design; about all my experience gains me is the ability to model in my head, the mechanics of drafting to scale, and the ability to distill a design onto paper.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'm meeting with my aunt and uncle later this week about building them a dining set. I'm pretty stoked. I get nervous and excited about big commissions like that. I know I now have the skills to pull it off, but there's still burden of the challenge.

Anyway, I don't think the design will be tough, but I'm think selecting the type of wood will be. They don't seem crazy about the big 4 american hardwoods: Oak, cherry, walnut, or maple. They threw alder out there, and I told them it's way too soft for a dining set. Then the mentioned pecan. I love pecan cabinets….but I can't find anywhere around here to source it. Really, to get quality stock in the various dimensions I need…..I keep going back to the big 4 hardwoods.

Any suggestions or input appreciated.


----------



## bobro

> I m meeting with my aunt and uncle later this week about building them a dining set. I m pretty stoked. I get nervous and excited about big commissions like that. I know I now have the skills to pull it off, but there s still burden of the challenge.
> 
> Anyway, I don t think the design will be tough, but I m think selecting the type of wood will be. They don t seem crazy about the big 4 american hardwoods: Oak, cherry, walnut, or maple. They threw alder out there, and I told them it s way too soft for a dining set. Then the mentioned pecan. I love pecan cabinets….but I can t find anywhere around here to source it. Really, to get quality stock in the various dimensions I need…..I keep going back to the big 4 hardwoods.
> 
> Any suggestions or input appreciated.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Looking forward to reading people's answers on this because it's a stickler, especially as you say when it comes to dimensions. Sycamore would be steep even if you could find big stock, elm moves too much and so on. There's always beech of course.


----------



## byerbyer

BRK - I was going to suggest QS Sycamore or perhaps Hickory although I have little experience with either. Like you I'd steer them back to the big 4 and shoot for some eye catching grain for the top or maple some Ambrosia Maple.

There's a hardwood dealer in NW KS that carries hackberry, coffee tree, and honey locust. I've never worked any of them. I burn a lot of honey locust in the fire place throughout the winter and it puts out a lot of heat


----------



## Waldo88

> I m meeting with my aunt and uncle later this week about building them a dining set. I m pretty stoked. I get nervous and excited about big commissions like that. I know I now have the skills to pull it off, but there s still burden of the challenge.
> 
> Anyway, I don t think the design will be tough, but I m think selecting the type of wood will be. They don t seem crazy about the big 4 american hardwoods: Oak, cherry, walnut, or maple. They threw alder out there, and I told them it s way too soft for a dining set. Then the mentioned pecan. I love pecan cabinets….but I can t find anywhere around here to source it. Really, to get quality stock in the various dimensions I need…..I keep going back to the big 4 hardwoods.
> 
> Any suggestions or input appreciated.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


What about ash? I'm sort of on a kick right now where I want to make everything out of ash simply because it isn't quite as commonly used, yet it is readily available, affordable, looks nice, strong, and easy to work with.

Plus you can get ash to look fairly similar to teak, which is beyond expensive nowadays.


----------



## ArlinEastman

Thanks David

Whatever I make will be for me. I am not quick enough or good enough to do someone elses just ask Red.

- On the Sandpaper grits sanding series it works in 1.5

If you start with 100 you go to 150 then 220 since it is 1.5 times 150 and so on. I learn that 30 years ago in the military from training my 3M

-In Shellac I like putting Oil down first to bring up the grain then Shellac to seal the pores then whatever you want to put on top of that if you wish.

Red

Have you checked on Hickory it is the same as Pecan


----------



## CFrye

Red, road trip to Colorado for Ash logs! Have you considered veneers?


----------



## byerbyer

Edit to my earlier comment. The supplier is in NE KS, not NW. Much shorter drive but still not real close to Counciltucky.


----------



## Hammerthumb

> I m meeting with my aunt and uncle later this week about building them a dining set. I m pretty stoked. I get nervous and excited about big commissions like that. I know I now have the skills to pull it off, but there s still burden of the challenge.
> 
> Anyway, I don t think the design will be tough, but I m think selecting the type of wood will be. They don t seem crazy about the big 4 american hardwoods: Oak, cherry, walnut, or maple. They threw alder out there, and I told them it s way too soft for a dining set. Then the mentioned pecan. I love pecan cabinets….but I can t find anywhere around here to source it. Really, to get quality stock in the various dimensions I need…..I keep going back to the big 4 hardwoods.
> 
> Any suggestions or input appreciated.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Don't know if it is available to you, but Jatoba is not very expensive here in Las Vegas. Have you though about an exotic?


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> - On the Sandpaper grits sanding series it works in 1.5
> 
> If you start with 100 you go to 150 then 220 since it is 1.5 times 150 and so on. I learn that 30 years ago in the military from training my 3M
> 
> - Arlin Eastman


Thanks for that little tidbit Arlin. I do not remember hearing that before. I probably get an extra sanding in occasionally. ;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks for all the input guys. Hickory was probably my next recommendation, however I'd have to start searching for anything over 4/4 stock. That's the tough part about a dining set, you really need to source 4, 5, and 8 quarter stock to do it right. I think anyway.

Paul- I'd love to do an exotic but I'm sure that would take it out of their price range. Basically, the main sources around here have the big 4 readily available. Anything else I'd have to order or search for.

Hoping it's much ado about nothing…and the decide on walnut or something.

I think we all run into the stereotypes people get from furniture marts where all the cherry and walnut are stained. Many, many times I've shown people something I made out of cherry or walnut with just an oil or poly finish, and they're like, "hmmm….I thought it would be much darker."

Also, when you go to any of the Amish or local made furniture stores…..there's a reason it's all made from the main American hardwoods;-)


----------



## LJRay

> I think we all run into the stereotypes people get from furniture marts where all the cherry and walnut are stained. Many, many times I ve shown people something I made out of cherry or walnut with just an oil or poly finish, and they re like, "hmmm….I thought it would be much darker."


I was going to ask why they didn't like the big four. 
It may (or may not) be worth getting some scraps of each and put on select choices of finishes to see if that changes their minds.


----------



## Iguana

Red, how about birch or beech?

In terms of pricing hereabouts, jatoba and sapele are about the same and fairly reasonable. Less than cherry and walnut…


----------



## Hammerthumb

Agree with Mark about pricing of Jatoba. Cheaper for me than Walnut.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, how about birch or beech?
> 
> In terms of pricing hereabouts, jatoba and sapele are about the same and fairly reasonable. Less than cherry and walnut…
> 
> - Mark Kornell


I can get birch or beech. Sapele and Jatoba aren't on the stock lists of my major lumber sources in Omaha. Darn, would probably have to order. I'm up for whatever. If they're not crazy about any of the big 4, then I guess I'll be lumber huntin! I do like sapele….but it's not my table…lol.

Ray- I have things made from each of the big 4 in my house. Hoping to give them a good idea of each. Or take the to an Amish furniture place.

Candy- I don't have veneer setup. Plus, I think part of the reason they're having me build it is because they want all solid wood.

Thanks for all your help guys.


----------



## lateralus819

Sapele is lovely. Especially if you get nice pieces.










This is just Danish oil natural


----------



## Mean_Dean

Big Red One,

I'm going to recommend mahogany.

African mahogany (Khaya) is about $6/bf (out here in Portland, OR, anyway) and is stable and just beautiful. Also, it allows you to dress it up a little-you could add breadboard ends in a G&G style. If you can get ahold of some QS boards for the tabletop, once the finish is applied, the depth of the wood is so deep, you can see all the way to China!

It will be a one-of-a-kind table that will start conversations, and be treasured for generations!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Good call Dean. That's one that has been sticking out at me. It's a little more here, but I can get it here:

http://www.intermountainwood.com/omaha_stocklist.htm

This was educational


----------



## CL810

Mmmmmm, mahogany…..


----------



## Hammerthumb

Great idea Dean. African mahogany is much easier to work than Jatoba. PM coming your way Red.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Alright folks. I've got just the piece of mahogany to convince them….









We'll see. I honestly have no idea which way they'll go. I laugh if they just say, "Never mind, we want red oak."


----------



## lateralus819

That looks familiar 

QS khaya is my favorite wood honestly. The only drawback is that it isn't particularly dense. It feels about as heavy as pine.

I've noticed quartersawn yellowheart looks quite strikingly similar once QS, but tons more stronger.

I wish i could find it in wider pieces.


----------



## jmartel

> Many, many times I ve shown people something I made out of cherry or walnut with just an oil or poly finish, and they re like, "hmmm….I thought it would be much darker."
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I think with the Cherry at least, most people don't realize that cherry darkens significantly with UV exposure. What they see at the furniture dealers is either A) Not cherry, but with a "cherry" stain on it, or B) Cherry, but with a darker stain on it to look aged.


----------



## byerbyer

BRK - Check out Liberty Hardwoods they have locations in Kansas City, MO and Ankeny, IA (north of Des Moines.) I'm pretty sure they'll deliver it for a fairly nominal fee. I've never taken advantage of that because I like to pick each out board.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Thanks Byer! My inlaws are near Ankeny, I had no idea about the place. Gonna have to check out that Metro hardwoods next time I'm through KC as well.


----------



## ArlinEastman

Red

I was going to say Mahogany also but the thinking guys beat me to it. Plus that is one nice board there.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Hey Guys,

Everyone have a great holiday weekend! Stay out of the shop! Have fun with family and friends, and eat, drink, and be merry!

Happy Thanksgiving!


----------



## john2005

> So I have a question for y all, how long do you typically spend on design?
> 
> I mean the whole process, from piecing together the general idea, to figuring out all the little details and troublesome areas, to figuring out how you d actually build it, producing an actual sketch, and revising.
> 
> I really have no idea of how others typically do it. Are there designs you spend months/years thinking about before you re ready to build? I think my frame of reference on this issue is a little screwed up as I design things for a living (design engineer).
> 
> - Waldo88


Little late to this conversation Waldo, but I really feel that a lot of woodworking (like most things) is spent trying to put into boxes or pigeon holes. My opinion, for whatever it is worth, is that there is no right way. Sorry to go all Miyagi. It really is different for everybody. Mark uses sketchup and makes a model. He inspects it and has a very accurate template. The next guy (me) will see a couple different forms, put them together in his head and that is the template. It is inspected from there. Neither is wrong and we can find ten more artists who do it ten other ways.

I work out of my head. My bench, which was one of my more elaborate designs was rough sketched on a piece of paper with a few key measurements, but that was it. My walkin closet remodel where I built floor to ceiling shelving and a build in dresser had nothing but a list of measurements. Most other projects are just in my head and as you already said, I just tweak it along the way.

To answer your question, the time is relative to how you work. If you can think like the fancy programs draw, just "mock up" an idea and see if it will work. Like you I take some time to look for holes and a commute is good for that. That's what's nice about having it in your head. If you don't see it all in your head (my wife cannot picture anything. At all) then maybe investing in a 3d program or something might help. I met one guy who always made a prototype out of cardboard. Mostly to get an idea for size and so on. Hard to do with joints but you get the idea.


----------



## RPhillips

> Many, many times I ve shown people something I made out of cherry or walnut with just an oil or poly finish, and they re like, "hmmm….I thought it would be much darker."
> 
> - BigRedKnothead
> 
> I think with the Cherry at least, most people don t realize that cherry darkens significantly with UV exposure. What they see at the furniture dealers is either A) Not cherry, but with a "cherry" stain on it, or B) Cherry, but with a darker stain on it to look aged.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - jmartel


I love the color of antique cherry… the real stuff, although the stained stuff does look good too.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

How about a good all around tablesaw blade for furniture makers. Honestly, I usually run a freud rip blade in my TS most of the time….even crosscuts. I only switch to a fine crosscut when I need a really clean cut.

Freud diablo's are the nicest blades I've bought. I think DanK was telling us he has had a Forrest for 30 years (or something like that). I do like idea of a nice sawblade from a quality company that I can get sharpened at any time.

Thinking about this woodworker II thin kerf for any all around combo blade? Think that'd be a good one? Not sure it'd rip like I'm used to with 40T. 
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000223VR/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=327RR5IFW0UL1&coliid=I3S4J5OVDDHETJ


----------



## lateralus819

Red- I've been using this one for the past year or so. Havn't sharpened it once, did do a cleaning a while back. I can't see enough good things about it really. No issues. It doesn't leave a "glue line ready" edge though, which to be honest, i like to joint edges after a rip anyways. For the price i can't complain.

For a 24T blade it crosscuts EXCEPTIONALLY well.

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-LM72M010-Industrial-10-Inch-8-Inch/dp/B00004T78V/ref=sr_1_12?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1417299355&sr=1-12&keywords=freud+saw+blade++10+inch

Another benefit is the FTG. Makes it nice for doing drawer bottom grooves, splines etc.


----------



## CL810

Wood magazine did a comparison ranking of TS blades a while back and the Freud Fusion Premier blades were ranked better than the Forrest blades. I've been using them for about a year and really like them. You can catch them on sale every now and then for about $80.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Freud doesn't offer any sharpening does it? I admit that's one of my attractions to the forrest is their sharpening service.


----------



## ShaneA

I have a couple of WWII blades and the length of time they stay sharp is where the value is. I also have a Freud rip blade I got a couple yrs ago, w/a FTG that is usually on the saw. They are all nice, but I have had the Forrest for 5 or 6 yrs and only had em sharpened once. They are actually "cheap" when you think about their longevity.


----------



## CL810

Forrest will sharpen any brand blades.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Ahh….didn't know that Andy.


----------



## ToddJB

I'm sure you've got someone local that will sharpen them up on the cheap.


----------



## DanKrager

BRK's thinking is on the right track IMHO. I have not owned another blade that has kept up with the WWII blade. The 40T 1/8" blade is what I have and it cuts a glue line ready rip in anything. Cross cuts as tear out free as anything I've spun. It does not catch and throw back stuff between it and the fence and with a splitter, no kick back ever. Many carbide blades will burnish the cut and glue won't penetrate that so readily. I've owned it since before 1980 and its purchase led to selling all my (complete) Foley saw sharpening stuff. It's been sharpened once, needs it again now, but still cuts a 2" thick rip in osage orange with no burning or hesitation of any sort. The cost per board foot of cutting is fractional in the ten thousandths of a dollar.

I WOULD NOT SEND MY WWII BLADE TO ANYONE ELSE THAN FORREST for sharpening. The differences are microscopic and one cannot measure the difference in sharpening from another company, but the proof is in the cutting. I know I sound like a (despicable) salesman, but I'm just telling my experience. When they sent it back after the first (and only) sharpening, it required less than half the horsepower to rip 2×4s. They called and asked my permission to make the change. It was experimental at the time and they wouldn't elaborate, but it was well worth doing.

I use Freud diablo on my hand power saw for rough work and am happy with it. Cuts freely rip and crosscut and is durable.
DanK


----------



## CL810

Forrest blade sharpening link.


----------



## camps764

There is also a place in Omaha that will sharpen blades for you Red, just another option


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks for the feedback folks. I've tried a couple freud blades, and I've heard many guys rave like DanK about Forrest blades. Think I'm gonna add one to the Xmas list. Gotta find out for myself.

Things are moving forward with the dining set commission for my aunt and uncle. Remember the selection of species debacle?.....Looks like they're going with walnut and cherry…..lol. We're talking about walnut base and cherry on the table top and chair seats. I like this two tone idea.

Now the design. They are much more involved in the design that any other customers I have worked with. About an hour in it occurred to me that they own a sign shop…...they design everyday! They're actually gonna take our ideas and work up some ideas on the cpu at their shop. They've got some software much more powerful than sketchup. Lots of cool ideas floating around that I might bounce off you guys. Here's the first:










They like the design of this chair from WoodMag, subbing sculpted wood seats for the leather. I like the chair too, my only reservation is the square seat. I've sat on square seats….they're not comfortable. Most good chairs have trapezoidal seats (wider in the front)......which is why chairs frames often have challenging angled mortise and tenon joints.

So, my choices are to keep the chair frame square (which make construction much easier) and build a trapezoidal wood seat that overhangs more on the front corners? Or to I change the chair, widen the front legs, necessitating angled M&T joints…..just so I can widen the front of the seat?

Appreciate any input.


----------



## CFrye

Interesting chair with the curved back legs and straight slats, Red. I know nothing of chair design so I'm just wondering if you could taper (or curve) the side seat supports from wide in the front to narrow in the back to get the extra width, yet still have straight tenons?


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, have you read enough of my stuff to have noticed the laminated ring I put inside of loose seat chairs like you are contemplating? If you (or others) have interest I'll look up the blog and link to it here.

Basically the 3/4" thick laminated ring fits and is glued to the inside of the seat rails and absorbs almost all the strain of the seat to leg joints because of its anti-twist resistance. I started doing it for some really delicate Italian dining chairs and it seemed to add a forever quality to the chair. I would have no problems with a 400 lb. gorilla leaning back on the rear two legs or having the set rest on carpet. (Resting on carpet will destroy a commercial DR chair in short order). The ring's long term strength is far superior to the traditional grooved corner blocks reinforcing a MT joint in the better chairs. I used MT joints front to back and get this…"0" (small) biscuits double on the side to side rail to leg joint. The first set to use this ring was built in 1995 or so and the client told me in a follow up contact recently that the chairs had been on carpet and were still doing well. (her family is HEAVY. Whew!).

Most of my chair repairs have been triggered by joints and glue blocks that worked loose over time. Some involved broken back legs where the tenon from side and back meet leaving so little wood in the back leg.

Looks like an interesting project. 
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I haven't seen that Dan. I link would be appreciated.

Also Mr Krager, I'm definitely interested as to you thoughts on keeping the chair frame square or going trapezoidal.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Interesting chair with the curved back legs and straight slats, Red. I know nothing of chair design so I m just wondering if you could taper (or curve) the side seat supports from wide in the front to narrow in the back to get the extra width, yet still have straight tenons?
> 
> - CFrye


Not a bad idea Candy. Curved front legs would fit the function….but maybe not the design.


----------



## DanKrager

Mr. Krager? Just throw in "Sir" and be done with it! Lawl. Nobody calls me sir, let alone Mr. Krager! Bless your heart!

Trapezoidal is traditional for some reason. Maybe, if you sit on something and trace the shadow, it will be trapezoidal. It does seem to make the chair more gracious or inviting. It also bangs the table legs more readily.










Well, I'm so into this digital thing now that I forgot. Didn't blog the build; done before blog! became a word. The detail pictures are photo prints and I can't even put my fingers on them now. This one picture exists digitally and if you enlarge it a bit, you can see the interior ring. It almost meets itself on the back of the front rail. We made interior and exterior forms from a dry fit of the trapezoid seat frame and laminated six 1/8" layers of dampened (not steamed) walnut (in this case). Then we glued (notice it is a long grain joint) the ring into the assembled frame. We made it a tight, springy fit and were glad for the extra lube of the glue. It was one strong unit. These are tight seat with upholstered backs. WREALLY comfy. Oh, and the dimensions of all the chair parts were increased by at least 15% over the original pattern because it was just too fragile for the family in its original form.

DanK


----------



## chrisstef

triple cross post:

Just seen in the local newspaper that they are having "Waltfest" this coming Saturday at one of my old haunts, the AOH Irish club in Waterbury CT, to benefit Walt from Brass City Records / Tools. Found a page on facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/events/293584030834851/

http://www.rep-am.com/news/local/846607.txt

Also looks like some local bands are putting out a CD in benefit as well. Ill keep my eyes open on the local paper to keep all informed.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Thanks for updating on Walt Stef. I'm watching for some sort of fund that we can contribute. Let us know if you see one.

For those who don't know of Walt Quadrato from Brass City Records, he has been a great source for woodworkers to obtain vintage tools for years. The man is one of the nicest, most generous people I've ever dealt with. Praying he pulls through.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

DanK- thanks for the feedback on the chairs Sir (lawl). Just a sign of respect. If I lived closer I'd come work in your shop for free just to learn from you.

The more I look into that chair design (old wood mag plan), the better I feel. It's a pretty wide seat as is, and I think the chair should be fine if I widen the front of the seat. The shaping of the seats will be my first experience with power carving. Fun!

For the table, we're kicking around slide-out breadboard leaves. Kinda like this:


----------



## theoldfart

My wife asked for this









at Colonial Williamsburg. Of course I said yes dear!


----------



## dbray45

Kevin - that will be a fun project


----------



## CL810

+1 ^. Do you have a lathe Kevin?


----------



## wormil

I think Norm made a corner chair in one of the New Yankee Workshops.


----------



## JADobson

Red, I like that table leaf design. I might steal that for the one I'm working on now. Not much to report in that direction. Haven't had the cash to buy wood for another leg. But I've got an interview next week (First interview in +70 applications) so things might be turning around. My original plan for a leaf was something like this: 








(not my picture, just off the internets)

But your way looks a lot classier and would make the leaves easier to store.

I forget if I answered you Dan about sticking with lamination rather than getting solid 6×6s. Thanks for the advise, I'm taking it and have since found a good source of decent pine that should work well.


----------



## Wally331

Well the corner cabinet project is on hold for a bit. Got a commission from a friends parents for a dining table. Gotta finish it before Christmas so it'll be a rush. Going all soft maple - They are planning on finishing it so that is a bit of a relief.









Lot of 6 and 8/4 material! Pretty nice to plane and not bad to saw. It'll be about half hand and half power tools. I still don't have a planer or jointer so I'll be doing a lot of dimensioning by hand, and joinery too!


----------



## DanKrager

Oh my, Wally, you won't need a furnace, probably not even a jacket. Lot of sweat equity in that table.
DanK


----------



## Iguana

Started on a new furniture piece today while waiting for glue to dry on my bench top. Rough cut the lumber to size, will let it sit for a few days before dimensioning.

It is a 4-board project. Here they are on my outfeed table:









Any guesses on the piece?

Hint: the boards are not far off from their final dimensions


----------



## Iguana

I need a new mallet. Passed up on one of the cocobolo ones from LV on Monday. Accordingly, this happened on Tuesday while I was cleaning up some mortises in jatoba. Cherry, meet janka hardness 2350.










Clearly cracked internally, as it now has a hollow clunk when I hit anything. Haven't tried it on the kids yet, so can't comment there  Destined for the fireplace, soon as I can turn another.


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, late answer to your question. I do have a lathe. It's a small 1948-1955 Craftsman with the original motor. Still working on getting it up and running.


----------



## Waldo88

I have a question about plywood.

I recently stumbled across a great source for reclaimed baltic birch ply (1"-ish) that is cheap (and a nonprofit). I figure while I'm waiting on material funds and a final design for the credenza I'm going to build, I might as well build something on the wife's wish list. I'm still working on making a clock out of that panel I posted a while back, but the going on that is sloooowwww, and I'm at least nearing the end. So I can spend my Christmas vacation time in the shop working with the BB ply.

What I'm going to use it for is a bench inspired by the Nelson Slat Bench









I had originally planned on making this out of walnut or a walnut/maple lamination (the original is maple and ebonized maple), but I think it would look really cool if made out of baltic birch ply, plus it can be done dirt cheap with the bb ply source I found. The few design differences I have in mind are changing the cross members to a doweled lamination (to keep the striping constant), curving the ends, and changing the legs to a carved splayed style instead of those frames.

That said, there are going to be A LOT of plywood edges to smooth, plus I'll be carving a lamination. I suspect that this is going to to trouble to plane well (and trouble with the spokeshave on the legs). What do you find is the best way to smooth plywood edges with little to no tearout? I'll be cutting all the strips on my bandsaw; smoothing will definitely be necessary but tearout won't be an issue coming from the saw.

Perhaps it would be worth my while to get a new blade for my LA jack to grind/sharpen to a lower angle than the stock blade? Maybe I should just ditch the planes and use the belt sander instead.


----------



## ksSlim

The glue in BB ply is hell on blades
Bit like planing sand or gravel.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Waldo- I've had good success planing the edges of baltic birch. My preferred weapon is a low angle jack. Now, just because of the way some of the end grain fiber cut….it still takes some sanding. Nothing an ROS couldn't handle.

Wally- Atta boy. That table should be a fun build. I really like working with soft(er) maple. Which, as some people don't realize….is still a hardwood. Just not as hard as hard maple.

James- Ya I considered slide-on ends like the pic you posted….but ya, where would a guy store those? lol. Hoping to design something so the drop-in leaves can store under the table.

Kevin- I've seen a couple chair like that. If your like me, you'd turn four tall legs….then lop off the ugliest one for the front leg;-)


----------



## CL810

Quality time in the shop today. Glued up the blanket chest. Went ahead with Rockler torsion hinges. The chest will have a sliding tray and I didn't see a way to use lid stays. I'll tackle shaping the wedged tenons tomorrow.


----------



## jmartel

Looking good there, CL. I like the design. Did you pull that from somewhere else or come up with it on your own? I couldn't remember.


----------



## CL810

I got it out of the book Blanket Chests by Scott Gibson and Peter Turner. The chest design is by J P Vilkman from Finland. He has a website.

It's a pretty good book. 25 pages devoted to general chest building techniques and 30 different chests. The book goes into detail for a few of the chests and for the rest just basic measurements.


----------



## jmartel

Going to put cushions on it or leave it bare like he did?


----------



## CL810

Bare I suppose. Hadn't thought of cushions. Hmmmmm….


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, with those hinges you won't need lid stays.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice Andy. I bought that blanket chest book awhile back after you mentioned it.

My current build (reclaimed dining table) looks so crusty compared to yours With reclaimed, it's tough deciding how much defects you want to include.

Gluing the top up with plywood splines:









And my shop elf is very interested in this build.


----------



## CL810

Ya, Kevin a bit back in this thread we discussed the two options and with the sliding tray I couldn't make the lid stays work.

Red, how do you like the book?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Oh I like book pretty well. There are a couple wacky designs that I would never make for myself…..but I have some clients with interesting taste


----------



## CFrye

Red, does your cute little shop elf help beat out old nails?
CL810, 3 hinges! It's a whopper and looks great.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice work on that chest Andy. I really like that design!

Looking good there Red. Never made anything with reclaimed wood, except floors.

Well, I'm on my way to the hospital to wait on my new shop elf. Daughter is due any minute! It's a boy, so I have been paying particular attention to AF's mini builds. Guess I'll have to get busy on that soon.

Good work guys!

Carry on.


----------



## Hammerthumb

By the way Red, just went to the mailbox and found a package. Thanks very much. I'll try to find time to open it later.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Here's how Red addresses his packages:


----------



## ToddJB

Ha. Awesome.


----------



## CFrye

Congratulations, Paul!


----------



## ShaneA

Looks like a keyboard to me, I would not have thought he could produce such high brow art.


----------



## JADobson

Good on USPS getting that one to your door. They can add Red's handwriting to the list of things USPS will deliver despite (snow, sleet, hail, &c.)


----------



## CL810

A while back I asked about repairing thru mortises and Red suggested a wedge from matching scrap. This is my first attempt at Rojo Kung Fu magic. The fix worked very well - thanks Red!

Somehow the pic makes the seam more visible than in person.


----------



## JADobson

Cl810, that visible seam is all in your imagination. I had to scroll back to your earlier pictures to see where the problem was. Now it just looks like a natural part of the wood. Good job.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Paul- hahaha. I thought you'd appreciate my shop elves decorating the backside of your package. Pray everything goes well with the grandbaby bud.

Andy- glad my tofu magic worked for you. I make so many mistakes I've gotten to be a pro at hiding them


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I just posted the lastest blog I've been working on. Some of you guys might appreciate it:

http://lumberjocks.com/BigRedKnothead/blog/43412


----------



## ColonelTravis

You're a good man, Red. Always enjoy reading your stuff and learning from your work, as well as everyone else here. 
PS - I write on boxes worse.

In the middle of making some small non-furniture Christmas presents, but they sit on furniture, maybe that qualifies for some pics here when they're done.


----------



## DanKrager

Ha! The Colonel and I thought alike on this one. Just finished this and it wasn't a plane, workbench, restoration, etc… Collection of wife's very old Indian dolls. Looking for glass handles appropriate for the ends. Maybe 1/4" plate glass semi-circles? Ok. It's not quite finished… 










DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice work guys. I suppose I'm like every other woodturner out there now. I had way too many big ideas of things to make for Xmas gifts that I stressed myself out. Here's some bud vases and a mallet. I doubt the recipients are watching this thread









I bet you wish your shop had a little drummer girl. 









"Jingle Pans"


----------



## ToddJB

Did you turn that brass, Red?

The vases look great.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nah buddy. I bought the brass head and reworked it a bit. The handle is osage orange.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Hey Guys and Gals,

Got a question for you. This dresser belongs to a friend, and looking at the top, it looks to me like the very top piece was added on top of the original top. It also looks like it has breadboard ends, and some sort of fir veneer over the top.

She's not happy with the look of the top, and wants to know if it should be removed, or if she should just live with it.

The dresser is otherwise QSWO, stained in a mission-yellow tint, and has been in her family for decades.

Any suggestions and help is greatly appreciated!


----------



## jmartel

Looks like you could strip the top off and see what's underneath pretty easily. Belt sander or hand planes.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Jmartel, I was actually referring to the 3/4" piece on top, not the veneer itself (although just stripping it off is an option).

It looks to be a flat-sawn piece of maybe fir, with a piece of fir veneer over it. The next board down has the same grain pattern as the rest of the dresser. I'm thinking that the "Mystery" wood top with the breadboard ends was added on later. Of course, if it's glued on, I'd better start my stretching exercises now…........! (Gunna be a loooong day of planing!)


----------



## theoldfart

My two cents: The top was added later to cover damage to the original top. You have nothing to loose by removing the second top. If the damage is slight refinish the original, if its bad plane it and re-veneer it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dean. Have you looked inside the case to see screws, clips or anything fastening the top?


----------



## bobro

I'd take that ugly top right off that nice dresser, but there's a good chance that when you see what's under that added top you'll say, heh, so that's why they put that on there… So be prepared for the possibility that you might have to do more than just sand the original top down. You may have to fix a big crack or fill a big whole, or veneer the top, or something like that.


----------



## bobro

I'd take that ugly top right off that nice dresser, but there's a good chance that when you see what's under that added top you'll say, heh, so that's why they put that on there… So be prepared for the possibility that you might have to do more than just sand the original top down. You may have to fix a big crack or fill a big hole, or veneer the top, or something like that.


----------



## camps764

yeah…I would agree. I would go all the way down to the mystery top and start there. Like Rojo said, I'd check inside for fasteners first. Once you get the original top off you might find some screws holding the fir "top" on.

Removing the whole top might also reveal a big split or something across the middle, might save you some time and head scratching.

You could also just try to identify the mystery wood, get your friend to buy the materials to make a new top, and get after it


----------



## Mean_Dean

Oldfart/Bobro, You're absolutely right that the newer top could be covering some sort of defect. If that's the case, and she wants the newer top taken off, I'm of a mind to just fabricate a new top out of QSWO, and stain it to match. The only concern I have with this option is that I probably don't have the router bits to match the edge profile.

Big Red One, the dresser is at her home, at the other extreme end of the Portland Metro area. I'd need several plane tickets just to get out there! I could however ask her to take the two top drawers out and shine a flashlight up there and take a look.

Which brings up another thought: It could be that the original producer didn't take into account wood movement, and simply screwed the top to the carcase. If that's the case, the top then split with seasonal wood movement, and the new top was added to cover up the split.

(Edited to add: If the top simply split, it should be possible to just carefully mill out the split area, re-glue it, and reattach it with Z-clips. This seems like the best option.)


----------



## DanKrager

MeanDean, if the original top is just split, I would clean the split well and re-glue it. If there are splinters missing then it becomes a bigger job of finding wood to fill them, but milling out the split might reduce the width of the top too much, leading to another problem. 
Almost certainly there are fasteners under the new top, penetrating the old top. So there will probably be holes to fix along with any splits. Given that situation, I'd be inclined to machine a whole new top to replace the original. If the moldings don't match perfectly, no big deal, since it's not a museum piece. With common bits, though, you should be able to match quite closely using multiple passes with different bits to complete the molding. 
Remote woodworking…that's a new concept to me… Good luck with that.
DanK


----------



## Mean_Dean

Dan,

I'm thinking that the best option is to try to salvage the original top. That solves several problems:

#1: The wood color will already match, since it's original. No need to try a color match process.

#2: The existing top (the one underneath the breadboard end newer top) is original to the piece (as far as I know, anyway!) so that should help it retain its value.

#3: It would be less work overall. (I'm perfectly willing to fabricate a new top from scratch, so I hope #3 doesn't sound too lazy….....!)

If it turns out to be less work, and a better looking top in the process, it might be better to fabricate a new top-but ultimately, it's her decision how to proceed.

But right now, we don't have enough information. I guess what we need her to do, is conduct a complete forensic assessment of the tops, and submit a report, complete with detailed photos!


----------



## john2005

Red, diggin the vases. They may be up next at shop de John. What did you use to hallow them with?

Dean, does not look like a fun project. How good are you with a rip saw?....


----------



## CL810

Making a sliding tray today for the blanket chest. I decided to miter and spline the joints (DTs are so passé now - ;-)). So I got a chance to put the new Veritas shooter to work. Being able to move the handle is a subtle but huge feature. My miter shooting board is at 45 degrees so I put the handled in dead middle of its range and it was sweet.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

John- they're just bud vases. I just drill a 3/4" hole and put a test tube. They can put a few small flower with water in that….or just use dry decoration. I don't have the skills to hollow yet.

Like this one on the web:


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Making a sliding tray today for the blanket chest. I decided to miter and spline the joints (DTs are so passé now - ;-)). So I got a chance to put the new Veritas shooter to work. Being able to move the handle is a subtle but huge feature. My miter shooting board is at 45 degrees so I put the handled in dead middle of its range and it was sweet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - CL810


Ahh…for cryin out loud. I just got done busting out some big breadboards. I didn't even think to used my new toy on them. DUH!


----------



## ArlinEastman

Goodness Red

You are on your way to be a first class turner.


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, southpaw?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Arlin.

This reclaimed dining table I'm building has presented some interenting challenges. I've had to get creative in order to get the look the clients want….all the while limited by the stock at hand.

Here's today's madness:









Most of the top is 2" thick. It has been edge glued with plywood splines. I milled a rabbet to work as a breadboard tongue of sorts. Then cut the groove on the breadboard end using a drop cut with a dado blade. Not really as scary as it sounds with cedar. 
-









While fitting the breadboard, I discovered neat trick #72 with the rabbet block plane: take a little off the cheek to get a good fit. 
-









After they fit, I put a little glue in the center of the breadboard tongue. the drilled and doweled one pin in the center….just to hold the breadboards for the next step. 
-

















I cut and marked dovetails for the outside pieces of the tabletop. Notice the perimeter pieces are twice as thick…..this will give the look we want. 
-









With tails marked, I cut the sockets the same way guys do on big workbench dovetails. I made a shallow "eye-balled" pass with the router, getting as close as comfortable with to the line. Then chiseled to the line. 
-









With a recess made, I slowly worked up with different pattern bits to make the full socket. 
-









I should note that the dovetail is not glued. This way the top will be able to expand and contract.

Crazy stuff ehh? That took most the afternoon. One down, other side to go.


----------



## john2005

Hot dang man!


----------



## CL810

Kevin, nah I'm a righty.

Awesome Red. Your client is gonna be very happy.


----------



## lateralus819

Good stuff Red.

Clayton- Have any more pics of that miter shootin boarD?


----------



## CL810




----------



## lateralus819

It looks a lot easier to use then a donkey ear. Would you agree?


----------



## CL810

I've never used a donkey ear.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I've only eaten donkey ears.


----------



## CL810

Well, it's assembled! Gonna take a breather this weekend and start the finish next week.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Looks great!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

You da man Andy.


----------



## Slyy

Nice work Andy! Have enjoyed watching it come together! Almost done.


----------



## theoldfart

Bravo Andy, fine bit of work there. Very lucky recipient!


----------



## DanKrager

Get some finish on it before all the green goo stains it. There's a lot headed your way.

I wish I'd done that. Nice. Can't wait to see the finish.
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Finished the base on the barn wood dining table today. Big lap joint in the middle….yadda, yadda. 









-









-









-









-









-
I need to epoxy voids and smooth the top, then it's off to the finisher.


----------



## CL810

I really like that table especially the condor tails. Will you get pics after he puts the finish on?


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## BigRedKnothead

oh yeah. I'll post it up as a project when it's in his dining room. He's also going to add some rustic metal hardware as cross braces. Should look cool.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Big Red One, that looks like a massive table! Your shop elf seems to like it!


----------



## RPhillips

red, table is looking sweet!


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## CFrye

> Big Red One, that looks like a massive table! Your shop elf seems to like it!
> 
> - Mean_Dean


^^^THAT!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys. My daughter asked, "Can I get on there? Think it will hold me?"

Uh ya, I think that table would hold a tank;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The plan was to make a wall shelf for my wife for Christmas. Not gonna happen. The last two months have been silly busy. I still think I'll start on it while I'm hashing out details for the upcoming dining set build. Maybe sumpin like this, except with maple. 









I definitely want to do inlays on it….but maybe a better design than that one.


----------



## camps764

I've always though that little cabinet was cool.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Big Red One,

Why not just make her a nice little jewelry box? At the prodigious rate you turn out projects, you should for sure have it done by Christmas.

Boxguy (LJ member) makes some beautiful boxes, and provides step-by-step instructions in his postings.

Anyway, just a thought to ease your burden!


----------



## mochoa

Im only a year behind on this thread. Some good stuff. Added to the watch list.


----------



## jmartel

I didn't realize this thread has been going for over a year now.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Wow. Me either!

Dean- A jewelry box would be nice, but I already made her one a couple years ago. She collects Tea cups and really wants a display shelf. Honestly, so do I. I've got one cupboard full of darn teacups lol.

I've still got lots of birds eye maple to use on that shelf. However, I think curly would look better on the outer columns with inlays. So, I'm gonna have to drum up some curly maple.


----------



## jmartel

> So, I m gonna have to drum up some curly maple.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Man, woodworking just sucks sometimes, don't it?

I lowered my veneer storage rack from the ceiling this morning to pull out some more Walnut veneer (plain walnut, maybe a very slight amount of curl in it), and damn if I didn't sit there staring at all the other figured stuff again for a while (especially my waterfall bubinga and Redwood burl). I gotta say that I love that you can get super figured veneer of some wood that would be next to impossible to get in solid form.


----------



## CFrye

Red, will the curl on the maple make inlay more difficult? I know I 'lost' a loop on gnarly oak when I did inlay on winding sticks for the measuring swap. First inlay attempt so, pretty sure I went at it backwards.


----------



## CFrye

Red, will the curl on the maple make inlay more difficult? I know I 'lost' a loop on gnarly oak when I did inlay on winding sticks for the measuring swap. First inlay attempt so, pretty sure I went at it backwards.


----------



## jmartel

It depends on how tight the fitup is, Candy. If it's tight and you need to pound it in with a BFH, you will likely break something along the grain. Too loose isn't good either, though.


----------



## CFrye

I see what you're saying, J. The damage I had was with the initial cutting, iirc.









...and repaired pre- and post-inlay.
Edit…pic is after inlay, before final repair.


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## john2005

Diggin the table Red!

Andy, love how the chest is comin together


----------



## CL810

Thanks John!


----------



## exelectrician

BigRed thanks for the great photos, this was an education in big DT's for me.


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## BigRedKnothead

^Your welcome exelectrican.

Candy- I don't think the curly maple should be too big of an issue with the router method I use. Plus smoothing with card scrapers.

Speaking of smoothing. Sandpaper is Evil.

I like that Rogoswki guy.


----------



## CL810

I don't understand his last few lines. "I sand still. 400 grit." ???


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya. I just like his stuff because, like Schwarz, he seems to articulate the same path I've been on. Often I still use a fine grit at the end to smooth any plane tracks or what have you. But, as you know Andy, that's a far cry from going from starting with planer ripples, then working from 120 grit on up.

He didn't mention the cost. I used to spend $30-40 on abrasives for a big furniture project all the time. I could have bought some Lie Nielsen's with that cash.

Course, I'm preachin' to the choir here


----------



## lateralus819

Yah i try and plane when i can. Paul sellers does the same thing. He uses a plane then finishes with 120 grit i believe.

The visual difference between sand paper and a sharp plane is very noticable, even to the un-trained eye.

I hate sanding, it is so tedious and time consuming. Not to mention the dust it generates.


----------



## Mean_Dean

I'm not sure I agree with Gary…....

First off, I don't have any hand planes, or scrapers, so sanding is my only option right now.

And yeah, I don't like sanding! It's time consuming, it's hard work (unless you can use your ROS), and it creates a lot of dust. But how else do you get a silky-smooth finish?

My sanding schedule is this: If it's fresh off a machine (planer for example) then start with 120, otherwise, 80 grit. From 120, to 150, 180, 220. I end at 220 for both hard/soft woods.

After a couple hours sanding, my right shoulder is ready for the ice bucket, followed by some Shiatsu massage, and then a half-a-bottle of bourbon…......


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> But how else do you get a silky-smooth finish?
> - Mean_Dean


Quite simply, just about any sharp hand plane will produce a glass-like surface. You don't even have to work up through the grits. If it's rough, make a couple passes with a jointer, then a couple with a smoother. Done.

Dean, sorry if I get on my hand plane high horse at times…..but just like with Rogowski, it was such a revelation to my woodworking. I enjoy the craft all the more now. If I hadn't sold or given away most of my extra planes I'd send you a smoother just to share the joy.

Premium planes aren't cheap. Vintage are, so that's where most start. Card scrapers are cheap. All of them are cheaper than disposable power tools and abrasives.

The cost holds some back. Others, like me, didn't want to learn to sharpen…and read grain….yadda, yadda. The learning curve is steep in the beginning, but the reward is worth it.


----------



## JayT

> I m not sure I agree with Gary…....
> 
> First off, I don t have any hand planes, or scrapers, so sanding is my only option right now.
> - Mean_Dean


Dean, if you've never done both, how do you know which is better? You are disagreeing based on only experiencing one side of the debate. What you'll find is that many of us that love hand planes have been on both sides and found that planing works better and faster for how we work. For a long time, I thought as you do, because that is the way I was taught. It never occurred to me that my teachers had been taught the same way and also didn't know any different. Using a sharp, tuned plane for the first time opened my eyes.

You don't need to spend a fortune to get the benefits of a hand plane. For less than the cost of a decent sander or a few months worth of sandpaper, you can get a vintage smoothing plane that will last your whole life and tune it up. A few minutes with a well-tuned plane will replace those hours of sanding and leave a better result. Keep in mind that a plane cuts the wood fibers cleanly, while sanding just abrades them. The abrasions get finer and finer as you go through the grits, but never get to the same clean cut as a plane iron.

I hope you get the chance to try a hand plane in the near future and see if your response is the same afterwards.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Big Red One,

First of all, feel free to get on your high horse anytime! I'd rather have a guy take a stand, and stand by it, even (or especially) if I disagree with it. On occasion, I've been known to be persuaded.

Also, I really appreciate the plane offer! It'd be hard to accept, though, as I hate having others put out over me.

So, do you recommend a card scraper, or the vintage plane? Where are they obtained, and how are they sharpened?

And by asking the above question, I've stated my ignorance of hand tools quite nicely, huh?!

I got started woodworking in junior high and high school, stopped for several decades, then got re-introduced by watching Norm on PBS. So you can see my power tool inclination!


----------



## Mean_Dean

Jay,

You're quite right that I've experienced smoothing wood from only one side of the argument. I guess I was disagreeing with Gary more on what he said about not smoothing every side of every part of a project. The perfectionist in me tells me to sand to 220 every face of a piece of wood. Even the insides of drawers, the undersides of tabletops, etc.

How can I say I gave a project my best effort, if I didn't give my best effort? It feels like cheating, somehow.

I know that's a personal failing on my part, but it's a damned difficult one to overcome!

So between you and Red, you've convinced me to investigate using a plane and/or scraper. If you can recommend any of them for a beginner, that won't break the bank, let me know. I see Tommy Mac using a #5 plane on his projects-is that a good place to start? (I figure if that's what he uses, and his projects turn out the way they do…......)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

hehehe….most of us started as Normites. No shame there.

You could get some card scrapers. I recommend the Lie Nielsens all the time because they're like $15 for two them, and the come with a nice burr already on them (that's the trick with scrapers….creating that burr). However, card scrapers are kinda the "fine grit." They won't replace a bunch of sandpaper.

I'm always gonna tell you to buy the best tool you can. You don't have a ton to lose, good tools hold their value you if you hate them.

A no 3, 4 or 5 is a good place to start. Options:

1) vintage- lots of sources. Ebay, vintage dealers like LJ DonW often has some here. You should be able to easily get a pre-WWII stanley no 4 or 5 for around $40. 
2) Premium- Veritas or Lie Nielsen if you can swing it. They're wonderful tools. 
3) Just today LJ CL810 offered some Woodriver planes for sale here. Wood Rivers are basically Woodcraft's import knock-off of LNs. However, they're still quality planes. Definitely worth what Clayton is asking.

Hope that helps some. There's always guys on the hand plane forum willing to help. Probably even a few on here with an extra plane to sell.


----------



## JayT

Dean, I had to go check, but have a #3 sized Stanley Defiance smoother that is yours for the asking, just PM me your address. It's not a premium plane, but would make a good user. A #4 or #3 smoothing plane is a good place to start. Then you can keep your current process for woodworking projects and just sub out the smoother for the sander at the end. As you learn and get more experience, you may want to explore using planes in other ways, or you may not. I tell most beginners that everyone needs a good block plane and a smoother in their tool arsenal.



> Also, I really appreciate the plane offer! It d be hard to accept, though, as I hate having others put out over me.
> 
> So, do you recommend a card scraper, or the vintage plane? Where are they obtained, and how are they sharpened?


Please don't feel bad about accepting. One of the rewards of being a woodworker, and especially a hand tool woodworker, is helping others get started down that path as well. There are several of us that have helped new people get started by donating a plane here and there. I keep my eye open for $5 bargains just for that purpose. A little clean-up/tune-up and boom ….. instant starter plane. The Defiance is one I picked up for a bargain price to use for a session at a local woodworking show a couple years ago and has been sitting collecting dust ever since. I'd rather send it to someone who will use it. All I would ever ask is that if you get the chance to help out another woodworker in the future, please pay it forward.

I have a few spare card scrapers laying around, too and will gladly send one for you to try out (I buy them five or ten at a time from Two Guys in a Garage, so there are always extras) Both will be ready to use when you get them.

Both scrapers and planes are useful and have different purposes. Smoothing planes are great for larger surfaces with workable grain. Card scrapers excel at small, hard to reach areas &/or tricky grain that doesn't plane well. You can use them in conjunction to get a good surface-plane most, use the card scraper on areas that are prone to tear out, and then finish with light passes of the plane again.

Here is a good video by William Ng on sharpening card scrapers. Several ways to sharpen a handplane, depending on your preferred method. If you are sharpening chisels, then the same system should work for a plane iron. If you have questions, feel free to ask over a the Hand Planes of Your Dreams thread.


----------



## JADobson

That up there…^ that is why I like this site.


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## Mean_Dean

Big Red One, thanks for the great info! I guess I've got some studying to do….....!

Jay, I'm half tempted to take you up on your offer! I'd feel bad if I didn't compensate you; but then, as you said, I could pass along the plane to a new beginner, if I ever decided to upgrade. Let me sleep on it-as it's not my nature to do this. But I've got some personality quirks to overcome, this being one among many!

And speaking of that, I've got the topic of our next subject….....


----------



## Mean_Dean

Ok, Ladies and Gents:

When is it OK not to be a perfectionist?

Is it ok not to sand to 220 grit the underside of a table? Is it ok that a miter joint doesn't close perfectly as long as no one sees it? Is it ok that the through-mortise has a slight gap that no one can see but you?

And then if those are ok, then how far down that slippery slope is it ok to go?

I've always thought that it's better not to get on that slope to begin with. To do the best you can-always. As anything less is cheating.

Any others of you out there with this sort of personality disorder? Do you suppose years of intensive therapy are in order? I'm curious as to your thoughts on this subject!


----------



## j1212t

Hey Dean, firstly, you don't turn down an offer like Jay made, take it and enjoy paying it forward in the future.

Now to answer your second question: I always strive for perfection and I think as woodworkers this is what we do. But concerning the mitres, mortises, bottoms of drawers/tables and my personal favorites - unsightly gaps of 1/64 in Dovetails.. The thing we must remember is, that only person who will ever notice these is another woodworker, and even then most of them won't have the audacity to climb under a piece of furniture and inspect it while you're standing there… although they might try to sneak a peak when you leave the room (I have been known to do that)

I have had to work on being "good enough" as Gary wrote in one of his blogs, I still make everything to the best of my abilities and try to get better with each piece I build, but different tolerances are required for different projects and one has to keep that in mind. PS! I never sand the underside of projects, I plane them, so much quicker and nicer…


----------



## vikingcape

Morning all. I am planning a build of a slant top desk on a frame kind of like this guy:

http://www.doucetteandwolfefurniture.com/Slant_Top_Desk_on_Frame.html

I have watched the video of him building it about 10000 times and I am not sure how he attaches the top to the legs. Would screw buttons work you think? Or should I do something else. I want to have room between the legs and the top for a drawer or two. Mine will also be more humble than this, because for some reason the wife wants to save money. Doesn't make sense to me. So I will be using pine (maybe)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Dean, work quality is a whole 'nother topic. Part of the reason I crank stuff out like I do, is because I'm good and balancing the quality/time issue. No, I don't sand inside the bottom or inside cases of furniture. Couple swipes with a plane and I'm done. Lotta reasons why, but here's a good blog that articulates it better than I:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/dont-work-for-the-pets-and-pests

Kaleb- I'll have to check that out later. Off for a lumber run.


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## CL810

Kaleb I can't help you with the legs BUT I do hope you post a lot of pics of your build here. I've watched that video several times myself and it's on my "someday gonna build" list.

Edit: just watched that video again. So interesting. Kaleb, has your wife watched it? Can't help but think she'd say, yep buy the walnut/cherry/whatever you want. Lol


----------



## JayT

Dean, my last thoughts on the subject. Do what you are comfortable with. Whether you accept the offer or not is up to you, but my best piece of advice on starting out with hand planes is this: Get your first plane from someone who knows how to sharpen and tune a plane. Nothing is going to be more frustrating than getting a plane and it not working right. That can just lead to frustration and giving up before actually experiencing what they can truly do.

When starting out, I thought I was doing a good job and then got a plane in trade from another LJ that was truly sharp and tuned. What a difference! Using it one time changed my perception and gave a new goal. After that, fixing up a vintage plane was much easier, because I knew what the target was.

To your other question.

I always try to do my best on every part of every project. My best now is better than it was a couple years ago and yet is not as good as the best others can do, because of talent, experience or whatever. The question becomes what is best for what part of the build.

The list of projects I want to build is so long, I've had to make decisions about what to spend the time on. If every surface has to be perfect, then the project will take so long, I'd never get to the next one. Where I've come down is that every part/surface/joint has to be enough for it's purpose.

If building a dovetailed drawer, I am going to make the best joint I can, but if the joint is structurally strong, then the main goal is accomplished. Appearance is secondary. The face of the drawer is a different story. It's main purpose is appearance, so I'm going to focus more on that and not accept something that doesn't look good. I've had to learn to accept that a small gap in the dovetail at the rear of the drawer is OK and a bit of tearout on an unseen surface doesn't affect the purpose and use of the project.

If I didn't accept that, then no project would ever be finished. I would constantly be going back and "fixing" things because as I worked the project my skill would/should have increased a tiny bit. The fifth dovetail is likely a bit better than the first one, because I've warmed up and practiced some more. If I go back and redo the first one, it should now be better than the fifth one for the same reasons. Where does it stop?

You sand up to 220 on every surface, but what about the woodworker who only sands to 180 or the one who insists you must sand to 400 on every surface. Who is right? One of the great aspects of woodworking is that you can all be "right" with different answers because you are different people and work differently. Do what is right for you and be happy, just don't get so bogged down with minutia that you miss out on the enjoyment of the whole piece.


----------



## john2005

I was getting ready to type a less clear version of this ^. 
In short, I agree with JayT. You do the best you can and don't sweat the small stuff. If its going to compromise a joint, yeah, fix it. But sanding the backsides if drawers is excessive too in my book, but there's nothing saying you can't or shouldn't. That's time that can be spent working on something else.


----------



## jmartel

> Morning all. I am planning a build of a slant top desk on a frame kind of like this guy:
> 
> http://www.doucetteandwolfefurniture.com/Slant_Top_Desk_on_Frame.html
> 
> I have watched the video of him building it about 10000 times and I am not sure how he attaches the top to the legs. Would screw buttons work you think? Or should I do something else. I want to have room between the legs and the top for a drawer or two. Mine will also be more humble than this, because for some reason the wife wants to save money. Doesn t make sense to me. So I will be using pine (maybe)
> 
> - Kaleb the Swede


Not sure if it's how they did it, but I would probably go for what they normally do on hutches. I can't remember the term for it, but it's sort of a Dado with a sliding tapered dovetail at the back to keep everything snugged down. Google wasn't helping me. If I can think of it when I get home, I'll throw up a photo.

Honestly, you should convince her that for the amount of time you're going to spend on it, the cost is insignificant. Wait another month or two and save up for the better wood. Personally, I wouldn't want to make two. I'm lucky in that my wife understands that. She has pushed for me to buy 8/4 and thicker wood before so I don't have to laminate a leg glue up for instance. Do it once, do it right.


----------



## adias9684

Great job Red. That's something I aspire to be able to do someday soon!


----------



## DaddyZ

Perfectionist in woodworking ^

perfection is not possible in woodworking, we all try to do the best we can but wood is a living thing. As we all know & most have done, we try to make the perfect cuts only to come back later & find out they twisted or cracked and now will not fit. ( I personally cut & sized 1 particular board at least 5 times before I gave it up for the burn pile) Good enough is the best we can hope to achieve.

Don't even get started about Humidity from one place to another, It can literally blow your project into pieces, hence the reason great pieces of old furniture are so sought after, they withstood the test of time (so far)...


----------



## vikingcape

I would love to do it out of walnut, that would match the rest of the rooms decor. But we will see what the little wife has to say. Thanks for the replies


----------



## JayT

Kaleb, if you need to figure out how the piece are attached, just order one from Doucette & Wolfe. After all they only start at $4700. Surely you can run paying for a prototype past the accountant. ;-)


----------



## jmartel

What's the cost difference between pine and Walnut? Probably $50-75 at most?

Also, it's better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission. Just saying.


----------



## vikingcape

You know what thats and excellent idea! I could buy one from them and use that for measurements when I build one out of solid mdf, painted off course, lavender. Of course mine will be better. And then I could buy that 16 inch jointer planer so I could build bird houses. And maybe it will rain whiskey too….... (and maybe my wife won't run me over with the car). That gave me a laugh Jay. Thanks

I'm definitely going to try to change the material to walnut. Use pine as secondary wood for it.


----------



## john2005

Keep your eyes open Kaleb, the deals are there, just gotta find them. I found 6 8/4 walnut boards at an auction this summer for 65bucks! Youll find something. A piece like that deserves better than pine


----------



## CL810

[/QUOTE]

.... Use pine as secondary wood for it.

- Kaleb the Swede

[/QUOTE]

That sounds more than fair.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Morning all. I am planning a build of a slant top desk on a frame kind of like this guy:
> 
> http://www.doucetteandwolfefurniture.com/Slant_Top_Desk_on_Frame.html
> 
> I have watched the video of him building it about 10000 times and I am not sure how he attaches the top to the legs. Would screw buttons work you think? Or should I do something else. I want to have room between the legs and the top for a drawer or two. Mine will also be more humble than this, because for some reason the wife wants to save money. Doesn t make sense to me. So I will be using pine (maybe)
> 
> - Kaleb the Swede


Hey Kaleb, it never gets old watching Mathew Wolfe work does it. It's tough to speculate what uses to join such a high end piece. I can tell you that I would use some of these jobbers:









Maybe a wood or brass pin in the back or front corners, then some of those to allow movement.

The price of wood certainly is an obstacle. That part of the reason I've been trying to stockpile when I can get deals. I hate having the cost of lumber keep me from woodworking.

I'll offer another solution- poplar. It's tougher and better to work than pine. It come cheap and wide around here anyway. And, there are some cool finishing processes that include dyes or gel stains…..so you can make it look like cherry or walnut. Worth a though depending on availability.


----------



## jmartel

> The price of wood certainly is an obstacle. That part of the reason I ve been trying to stockpile when I can get deals. I hate having the cost of lumber keep me from woodworking.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Doesn't work so well when you are already full up on wood and have started a secondary pile on the floor in addition to a full rack. At some point, I need to start making stuff. Luckily I'm pretty well covered with Walnut for a little while. No idea how much I have.










That's just my Walnut.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Time for a lumber shed. I even bargain bought and slowly accrued most the materials for that


----------



## Hammerthumb

Lean any more there and you'll have a new opening in your shop!


----------



## jmartel

Red, you are forgetting that I live in a townhouse. My "Yard" is a 6ft wide strip of gravel that runs along the side of my house and then in front of it. Rear of the house is the garage door/driveway. That's it. No room for a shed.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ok, storage unit will have to do…..hehehe.

Btw Kaleb, I think it's awesome your willing to take on such challenging projects as young as you are to the craft. Swede's must have big cajones….lawl!
No, your piece will probably not be quite at the level Wolfe's is. However, it's gonna push you, and you'll skills will accelerate faster than your average Joe.

And if you do go with walnut, I'd donate this 12×30" piece to your cause


----------



## jmartel

One night over the weekend I sat down and re-watched everyone of the Doucette videos. Still awesome to watch. Also a neat way to see when they bought each tool as all the previous videos didn't have it, but they are in all of the following videos. I want that Planer/Jointer.


----------



## ToddJB

Kaleb, this doesn't directly answer your "what hardware" question, but I found this article that A1Jim just posted to be a great resource for the topic of wood movement.

http://toddpartridgedesign.com/sr_pages/documents/UnderstandingWoodMovement.pdf


----------



## CL810

> No idea how much I have.
> 
> - jmartel


Not enough, just sayin….


----------



## CL810

Todd, that's a great link


----------



## jmartel

> Not enough, just sayin….
> 
> - CL810


That's what I'm trying to tell my wife, but she doesn't agree. Says I have to use up some of the wood I have before I buy more. Fair enough, easily done.

That photo also doesn't show my figured claro walnut board that's 18" wide x 9+feet long. That's going to be kept for a while until I can find something that utilizes the full 18" width. I was originally thinking of a bookcase, but 18" is a bit too deep. I was looking more around 12" or 14".


----------



## Mean_Dean

Jay,

Spent all day in the shop-just now getting on LJ's! Also had a section of fence come down last week in a big wind storm-it's only one section of fence, but it broke two posts…......

Anyway, you guys are very persuasive, and I've decided to accept your offer of the plane! I think one of my New Years resolutions is to start breaking bad habits…......! PM forthcoming.

Also, I willing to dial back my perfectionist tendencies-a little. I'm going to try finish sanding all the visible areas, and just plane the non-visible areas of my projects. A good point is made that time spent on finish sanding every area is time that could be spent on other projects.

I always get good feedback here, and appreciate you guys telling it to me straight!


----------



## john2005

> .
> 
> And if you do go with walnut, I d donate this 12×30" piece to your cause
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I am sure I can send some walnut your way to if that's the way you go. I've been hoarding it like Jmart, but if sombody is gonna actually use it, I can get a chunk your way.

Dean, it's always good to see a man say "yknow, I'll give that a try. And if it doesn't pan out, oh well, I tried.". I so much prefer to discuss thing with people of that mindset vs "this is how I do it and this is how I'm gonna." I have a Stanley #5 you can have. It's a newer one (20-30) yrs old im guessin, so it doesn't have the history but it planes fine. Just takin up space here so if you want it, let me know.


----------



## jmartel

> ^ok, storage unit will have to do…..hehehe.
> 
> Btw Kaleb, I think it s awesome your willing to take on such challenging projects as young as you are to the craft. Swede s must have big cajones….lawl!
> No, your piece will probably not be quite at the level Wolfe s is. However, it s gonna push you, and you ll skills will accelerate faster than your average Joe.
> 
> And if you do go with walnut, I d donate this 12×30" piece to your cause
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I'll also put this up for the cost of shipping for Kaleb. Only about 12.5"x6.5", but it's curly walnut.


----------



## vikingcape

You guys sure are gentleman woodworkers for sure. I think the wife is coming around to the idea of doing it in walnut. I pulled the "it isn't going to match the rest of the furniture in the room" card and I think she is seeing that. So thanks for the offer guys but I think I should be able to go to the sawmill and go and get it


----------



## jmartel

If you have a planer, look on Craigslist for rough cut Walnut. Should be significantly cheaper. Even here in Seattle which is a far distance away from natural growing Walnut, I have been able to find some for about 1/2 the going dealer rate or less.


----------



## Slyy

Kaleb, this kinda thing is what makes LJ's such a cool place!


----------



## Mean_Dean

John2005,

Thanks very much for the offer! Jay is already sending me one, so I couldn't possibly accept another one. Hang on to it, and if I ever need another one, I'll know where to find it.

Or the next time a hand plane beginner comes along, send it his way!

Thanks again!


----------



## mochoa

Question for the esteemed panel of furniture makers.

I just got a commission for a Frame and Panel Desk, in pine. I figure there will be at least 5 maybe 7 Frame&Panels. 
The below picture is the inspiration. 









I really haven't done any F&P work yet so I need some advise. What is your favorite way of making F&P?

-What is your favorite way to raise panels? I'm thinking two cuts on the table saw? 4 shallow cut to define the face and 4 cuts to form the bevel.
-On the Mortise and Tenons, Are ¼" stub tenons that just fit into the groove sufficient? Or do you guys cut a deeper mortise with corresponding tenon?

Thanks in advance all!


----------



## mochoa

To answer one of my own question I'm thinking that Stub tenons would work on doors but probably not on case construction.


----------



## vikingcape

Why not? I think that the stub tenons would be ideal. Then you could dado the panels together to make the case. I think that would work


----------



## mochoa

I wasn't sure if a little stubby 1/4" tenon would be strong enough.


----------



## jmartel

Is it structural? If so, I'd probably go with more than just a 1/4" stub tenon. But I'm pretty conservative on structural aspects.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Looks like fun Maur, I'll try to help.

- for panel grooves, I always end up back at the router table. With a slot cutting bit it's just so fast and accurate. Run the edge, flip it and run again- perfectly centered groove. There are other ways if you don't have a router table. 
- I like to use haunched tenons on furniture doors, but I think grooves and stub tenons would be fine for desk panels. I would just make your grooves bigger than 1/4". More like 3/8" or 1/2".
- I hardly ever use raised panels, but when I have, I cut them with an angled blade on the TS, then planed to my liking.

Are you already buying fun tools with the proceeds in your mind? lol


----------



## mochoa

Thanks for the help Red. I have a router and slot cutter, I think I'll use that approach.

I think I'm just going to go ahead and make deeper tenons. I may just make a jig to use with a plunge router and a bushing, I've used that approach recently and it is pretty fast. Plus 1/4" mortises in 3/4" styles is something I'm sure to do again in the future so its worth the small investment in time.

LOL, I'm resisting spending the money before I make it Red. I better table saw has been on my list for a while.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Mauricio,

Where the rails meet the stiles, at the top and bottom, you could just make a deeper mortise-say 1/2".

So you would still run your 1/4" groove, with a deeper mortise and the ends of the stiles. You then make the stub tenons at the ends of the rails 1/2" to match the mortises.

Everything else remains the same as regular frame-and-panel construction.


----------



## lateralus819

All quartersawn khaya and Wenge. Beautiful but pain in the butt to work with, mainly due to it's lack of hardness. Few mistakes, but i can let it pass! It's chilling in my inlaws house until xmas. Finished with danish oil then beeswax. litte transtint vintage maple dye as well.


----------



## Airframer

Man that thing looks nice… and gets around too!


----------



## mochoa

Makes sense Dean, thanks!

Kevin that is a pretty sweet piece! good job.


----------



## ShaneA

Since I have a disdain for routers, I usually use a TS with a FTG rip blade, go 1/2" deep…makes the math easy. Raise the panels on the TS too. One of the beauties of WW is there are so many ways to get there. I just much prefer to use a TS vs a router.

Your finish work based on what you were able to accomplish on the pine of your bunk bed build should make this a nice piece.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ I hear ya Shane. I use my router table a lot less than I thought I would. I could easily get by with a benchtop version. But like I say, I always bust it out for panel grooves. I've tried them in the TS- even with a featherboard I can't get the grooves as precise as I like.

Also, when you like up the router table fence with the bearing, there's a lot less chance of the router grabbing that board or doing anything unexpected.

That said, I'm a TS guy for most other operations.

Lat- Props on the shelf man. It's slick.


----------



## vikingcape

Wow! Really like that shelf a lot. Great work Lateralus. The wood combination is perfect

I think I look for uses for my router. I love using that thing. I am always amazed at what it can do, and make it look so nice. I am not a table router guy. I much prefer hand held. That is why one day I plan on getting the festool 2200. I keep reading that is the number 1 hand held router and if you stick it in a table you miss the point of it


----------



## bobro

Yeah, perfect wood combination, Lateralus! And the design will work with any other kind of furniture in a room, fancy or plain, old or new, nice.


----------



## CL810

Ezone is a spammer for Ted's woodworking plans.


----------



## mochoa

> Your finish work based on what you were able to accomplish on the pine of your bunk bed build should make this a nice piece.
> 
> - ShaneA


Thanks Shane, this one will be mostly painted, more like what I've been doing on the 6 board chests I've made a few of.

I think I'm going to finally have to learn to use that brand new HVLP gun I have sitting under my bench! LOL.


----------



## camps764

anyone know of any other good youtube channels like the Wolfe and Doucette?


----------



## Slyy

Lat - gonna make a project post about that? It came out GREAT!


----------



## lateralus819

Yes. Probably after Christmas. I had numerous things pop up that i either didnt think of or didn't know. Would be good to log for others to keep in mind. 

It was fun and I'd do it all over again knowing what i know now. It's a fairly easy project to accomplish. Shouldn't have taken me long, but ill get into that when i post a project post.

I just wanted my wife to have a nice bookshelf. She has been pestering me for months. She didn't even want a nice one, just something, to hold books is all.

Next up is my damn lathe stand! I've had the motor for near 2 months now. Just haven't had time!


----------



## CL810

This post is not about furniture but sharpening. Maybe there's another thread it should go on, but I thought it worthy of discussion. From David Savage regarding grinding chisels and plane blades:

*"if you use a Diamond dressing stone to dress the face of the grindstone so that it's just very slightly domed then you are only cutting on one point. The blade that you are grinding is moved around slowly but controllably across this one point and consequently won't overheat so viciously as if it were grinding right across the whole width of the blade. This is the secret to sharpening heat sensitive, high carbon Steel cutting edges quickly and efficiently."*

Has anybody done this?


----------



## JayT

Andy, yes, that is how I have the stone on my bench grinder done. It takes a bit longer to sharpen, but drastically reduces the chances of "burning" the steel.


----------



## camps764

I havent done it, but read that as well. Makes sense to me.


----------



## Iguana

Yup, that is how my grinder is set up. Agree with Jay, it is a bit slower, particularly noticeqble when.you need to remove a lot of material.


----------



## mochoa

I heard about that trick from Shannon on Woodtalk. I want to try it but cant find my wheel dresser!


----------



## Airframer

Finish question gentalmen.. I put some finish on the tool chest I am making today (danish oil then poly) and now 7 hours later the first coat of poly is still tacky. If it is still tacky in the morning I was thinking of top coating with Seal Coat… good? Bad? Insane? I need this dry by Christmas morning so in a bit of a bind right now.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Finish question gentalmen.. I put some finish on the tool chest I am making today (danish oil then poly) and now 7 hours later the first coat of poly is still tacky. If it is still tacky in the morning I was thinking of top coating with Seal Coat… good? Bad? Insane? I need this dry by Christmas morning so in a bit of a bind right now.
> 
> - Airframer


uh-oh Eric. Did you know your supposed to let danish oil dry 72 hours before topcoating? Danish oil has some BLO in it I believe. Sometimes you can get away with one or two days, especially if you seal it with sealcoat.


----------



## Airframer

Yeah.. that.. that is something I didn't think about. Looks like I may be sanding again tomorrow.. sigh


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> This post is not about furniture but sharpening. Maybe there s another thread it should go on, but I thought it worthy of discussion. From David Savage regarding grinding chisels and plane blades:
> 
> *"if you use a Diamond dressing stone to dress the face of the grindstone so that it's just very slightly domed then you are only cutting on one point. The blade that you are grinding is moved around slowly but controllably across this one point and consequently won't overheat so viciously as if it were grinding right across the whole width of the blade. This is the secret to sharpening heat sensitive, high carbon Steel cutting edges quickly and efficiently."*
> 
> Has anybody done this?
> 
> - CL810


Andy, We did have a sharpening forum going, but it came to a halt. Lotta good info on there though. 
http://lumberjocks.com/replies/on/3012852

Like Jay, this Shannon Rogers video is the best I've found about grinding a plane iron. You can skip to about 7:30 in the vid.






Basically grinding a flat on the edge, straight or curved, prevents burning. This helped me a lot.


----------



## CL810

Danish oil must cure for a minimum of 3 days before applying poly. I would think putting Sealcoat on would not be a good idea. I'do wipe off the poly with mineral spirits, let the Danish oil cure, then put the poly on. You may need to put more Danish oil on after you wipe the poly off.

Edit: dang Red you type fast!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Yeah.. that.. that is something I didn t think about. Looks like I may be sanding again tomorrow.. sigh
> 
> - Airframer


Eric, scrubbing it with mineral spirits will sometimes work. If you get the tackiness off….you can then use sealcoat. Or bust out the card scraper.

Edit: I do remember that bhog used to seal danish oil with shellac for this reason.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> anyone know of any other good youtube channels like the Wolfe and Doucette?
> 
> - camps764


I'm not a big youtuber Steve. Only realized this year that there are "channels." I like the Doucette, woodwhisperer, and Lie Nielsen channels. Do you listen to any podcasts? Their great for all the driving I do. My fav is probably the fine woodworking one:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/blog/shop-talk-live


----------



## CL810

Ya Red I knew that trick in the video but I'd never heard about creating a dome effect on the grinding wheel.


----------



## fatandy2003

Yeah Eric, a coat of dewaxed shellac will "seal" in the danish oil and allow you to put poly on top of that as soon as the shellac is dry…


----------



## Airframer

Yep lesson learned. I seem to have gotten lucky though. Checked on it this morning and it is no longer sticky to the touch. Now I can buff it with some steel wool and wax then call it.


----------



## duckmilk

> Morning all. I am planning a build of a slant top desk on a frame kind of like this guy:
> 
> http://www.doucetteandwolfefurniture.com/Slant_Top_Desk_on_Frame.html
> 
> I have watched the video of him building it about 10000 times and I am not sure how he attaches the top to the legs. Would screw buttons work you think? Or should I do something else. I want to have room between the legs and the top for a drawer or two. Mine will also be more humble than this, because for some reason the wife wants to save money. Doesn t make sense to me. So I will be using pine (maybe)
> 
> - Kaleb the Swede


Kaleb, late to the party as usual. I just watched the video and backed it up, and paused, and over etc. Do you think he may have fit the top with 1/2 blind dovetails? At about 3:10 in the video, it appears he is smoothing out the top with dovetails showing. If the grain orientation of the sides is the same as the top, there wouldn't really be an issue with wood movement.

I may be wrong, and usually am. Just my .02.

Mike

P.S. I love how he uses a sideways sweeping motion with the smoothing plane across that changing grain. Will have to try that.

Dean, try it, you'll like hand planes.


----------



## j1212t

Question to you pros - I am starting a crib for my baby girl who is arriving in the spring. Here's kind of what i have in mind.








I am starting the drawing in SU today, but generally speaking I have one big issue with this - the slight curve in the upper front and back rails. I don't have a steam box, which means that the only 2 options I have would be to either manhandle the piece of oak in place or laminate. (Lamination is tricky without a BS I probably can't get the grain to line up as nicely as it should.)

In general most of the pieces are 3/4, but the top rails and corner posts are more around the 1 1/4 mark. So my *first *question is - Can I manhandle a 1 1/4 piece over a curve of 1- 1 1/2" and 62" length like that and have it hold in place with glue? (Maybe add in a few screws form the underside)

*Secondly* - Could I achieve the same kind of effect visually, (a very slight curve in the top 2 rails) without actually making the curves? The reason I ask is that this crib is a part of the set, of which the changing table has the same slight curve on the top, but the large cabinet does not. And since I am making them all in the end, should I try to go for a more uniform look? Changing table and cabinet look like that:


----------



## camps764

You could achieve that with a router and a template. Instead of using two pieces like the photo, you would use one larger piece for the rail.

Here's how I'd do it: Layout your template on some 1/2" mdf, and cut the curve and smooth with sanders. Once you get the curve where you want it, use some carpet tape to attache it to your top rail stock. Use a flush trim bit and take some light passes to establish the curve on the rail stock. Take off template and nibble your way down, one pass at a time. Clean it all up with some sand paper and voila!


EDIT*
After looking at it some more, I think steam bending would be the best option. I've seen folks build them online using PVC or even Plywood, and using a tea kettle to produce the steam.


----------



## camps764

Also, the dresser doesn't have the same curve on the top, but the curve is echoed in the rails on the panel doors. That gives all three pieces some uniformity.


----------



## DanKrager

Jake, you mentioned not having a BS. Do you have a table saw? I'd seriously consider TS 1/8" laminations glued in a form to make the curve for the top frame.

However, if you want to bend, a full fledged steam box probably isn't required. I use a 3" plastic pipe with a cap in which I've drilled a 1/8" hole. The steam source is a portable stove with a short can of water (to heat fast). A couple tablespoons of ammonia in the steam water help plasticize the wood fibers. You still need a mold.

You could clamp your piece into an over bend and let it sit for several days. Upon release it will spring back but there will be some bend retained, maybe enough to relieve the strain so your screws from under will have a chance.

And the old tried and true method, carve it out of a single larger piece. 
DanK


----------



## j1212t

Thanks Steve and Dan, that's what i was afraid of, if I intend to copy, I need to make me a steam bender… I've seen a few good ones, MTMWood did a very good one lately, will have to check it out. Mine would have to be about 5'6" long though..

Just in case though, I'll go ahead and make a model of that in SU without the curved part, maybe pronounce the curve in the rail more, but keep the top straight like on the dresser (Thanks for the word Steve, I knew it wasn't a cabinet, but as a second language speaker the correct term escaped me)

So maybe that's a good thing, maybe I'll reference the idea, rather than try to copy it. But if anyone has some good ideas I am very much open to hearing them.


----------



## camps764

No problem Jake. I didn't even catch that you called it a cabinet


----------



## byerbyer

I managed to sneak in some shop time over a few late nights this past week and wrapped up the kitchen cart for my girlfriend, which has now nicely morphed into a surprise Christmas present. She knows she's getting it, but thinks I'm still weeks away from finishing it…

I padded a few coats of Seal Coat and some wax on the drawers and finally got a chance to try out a toy I received last spring. I look forward to signing many more future projects this way!










Pulls are satin nickel from Epco (FYI these give the look of stainless steel with some decent cost savings)










The top is birch ply with poplar edging painted to match. I have a feeling it will be upgraded to a butcher block sooner than later, but I lost that battle during the design phase.

All I lack is attaching the casters and sneaking it the house by the tree!


----------



## CL810

Byer that turned out great!


----------



## camps764

looks awesome!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Atta boy Byer.

Jake- you really don't want to just torque a board to fit that curve. My preferred way for curves like that is to bandsaw it out of thicker stock. Are there any LJs or shops around where you could use their bandsaw for a bit? Otherwise I think Dan's lamination idea is the best.


----------



## j1212t

Good looking Byer!

Thanks Red, I figured that torqing it in place might not be best practice, just wanted to be sure, before I tossed the idea. Anyhow, got home and tinkered a bit in SU, I think it'll be fine without the slight curve, the straight top will give it a more Japanese/AC look in my mind and will also be easier to implement, so rather than fret about it, I'll go ahead with that plan. (PS! If something seems off to any of you guys, proportion wise or other, please let me know, I've been looking at that bed for a while now in SU, so I might have missed something and any comments are welcome.)

















Time to get that first cut list in place and then it is off to the dungeon for stock selection!! Good times indeed!


----------



## ToddJB

Jake, congrats on the impending baby.

One feature of my purchased crib that is invaluable is the ability to lower the mattress as the wee one grows. Start out with it at the highest level for easy access, and then lower it as the kid gets larger.


----------



## jmartel

Jake,

Definitely go with an adjustable height mattress. You can do that with some toggle bolts or some cleats.

I really like that design though. Where did you get it from?


----------



## j1212t

Hey Todd, thanks! Yeah, that is definitely a feature on this as well, just figuring out the specs, because we don't have any of the fancy bed sets you can buy in the states for rockler or similar.

But I'll figure it out, first thing was to hammer out the details in the general design.


----------



## ToddJB

Also, a couple other freebee tips. If you go with a padded crib liner like this, I HIGHLY suggest that you make the crib with some extra space on each side of the mattress. These things are a huge pain to take off so when you want to change the sheets in the middle of the night after your kid has projected some bodily fluid all over the crib, you will not want to be fighting trying to get the mattress out from under this thing while sleepy and angry.

Next, if you want to use this for subsequent kids or grand-kids put A LOT of coats of hard clear coat sealer around the top edge of the crib. My son used his like a gnawing bone for a dog and there are his teeth marks deeply embedded that would be a huge pain to try to fill or sand out. A few extra coats of a hard clear coat would have been easy to sand out and reapply.


----------



## byerbyer

Thanks for the kind words all.

Jake - 
When I built a crib last year I used the Consumer Products Safety Commission site for reference about sizing the crib. I by no means adhered to all their standards, but clearance around the mattress & spacing between the verticals were handy numbers to have in mind during the design phase.


----------



## vikingcape

Jake a board that size you could use a jigsaw outside the line and then template rout it.

Byer looks nice


----------



## j1212t

Sorry Jmartel - I missed your comment on my phone yesterday, the pics I posted are from here

I think I can figure out the adjustable mattress, but the big question for me is attaching the headboards to the sides. As I said, I can't go to a shop here to get the hardware, so my only option would be amazon or similar online ordering site in Europe. Can any of you guys reference me to what you have used for your cribs to attach the headboards and sides? My main criteria is that I really want as little as possible of the hardware to show. If possible i would hide all of the hardware. So any and all tips would be very welcome.


----------



## byerbyer

Jake - 
I used stub tenons with quick connect bolts and cross dowels from Lee Valley. You basically build a regular mortise & tenon joint, drill a clearance hole through the mortise and into the end of the tenon, locate the cross dowel behind the tenon, and then you can use this to pull the M&T joint tight. Not sure I'm doing the description justice, but it's similar to knock down workbench hardware on a smaller scale. 
I don't have the SU file at work, but if you'd like I can take a couple screen shots and post them tonight to show it in detail. I'll link the project too.

I used the same bolts (only shorter), some threaded inserts, & 1/8" x 1-1/4" flat steel to make the mattress adjustable.


----------



## camps764

The crib we bought uses barrel bolts like this :


----------



## byerbyer

Camp's pic is what I was trying to describe and what I used Jake.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Is it just me, or is anyone else seeing weird links strewn about everyone's posts?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Is it just me, or is anyone else seeing weird links strewn about everyone s posts?
> 
> - Mean_Dean


Yup, and it's tickin me off. I noticed yesterday when I posted my blog yesterday there were a ton of links in the blog….and I didn't put them there. LJ Summerfi has commented about this before on his homepage:

*"Note: If you are a visitor to this site (i.e. not a signed-in member of Lumberjocks) you may see advertisements linked to some of my text. These were not put there by me. They were added by the site owners to generate additional revenue. In my opinion, it is unethical for them to modify what I have written, but there is little I can do about it short of not using the site."*

I agree with Bob wholeheartedly. I understand this site needs advertisers to function. However it is unethical to augment what we write. There are folks who put a lot of work into this site….and we are not paid a dime. I have no problem with LJs making money from the advertising on my blogs etc….but I they should not manipulate my work.

Supposedly those links are only to be seen by non-members who are not logged in. Even that is not appropriate imo. One cannot tell the difference between a link I've made in my blog, and some bogus amazon link LJs put there.

I'll get off my soapbox now, but this is seriously the first time I've considered making my own site or blog.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Ok, didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest!

I had noticed these links when I've accidentally not logged in. But never when I am logged in. Seems like LJs is slowly becoming more and more commercialized. I suppose at some point we're going to have ads in the middle of our posts! And don't think I'm kidding-one site I'm a member of, actually does that. The ad will be inserted right in the middle of your paragraph, with your text wrapping around it….....

I think it would be a fair compromise that the ads appear only to non-logged in viewers, and not to logged in members. That way, the ads get seen, and the members who contribute the free content that LJs promotes and profits from, can participate in peace.

With all that said, I hope I didn't start a WAY off-topic debate. I enjoy it most when we all talk about furniture, and how to make it. I was just wondering if my computer had gotten wonky on me.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sorry Dean, that topic does strike a nerve with me…lol.

Problem is, for me anyway, I've been seeing some of those links even while I'm logged in. Right now there's a link on the words "tool boxes" in the first sentence of my original forum post. Grrrrr.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Ok Big Red One, time to take a break!

Fold up the laptop and put it away. Next, pour yourself a nice bourbon, relax in your favorite chair, put on some Diana Krall-and in 30 minutes, I guarantee you'll feel a lot better!

In fact, that sounds so good, I'm going to join you!

Cheers!


----------



## DanKrager

I have experienced this before in a small way, and found malware on my computer, which is very rare because of the securities I use. I found a bunch of similar attacks by Googleing "can links inserted in website text be a virus?". Pages and pages of various types of things that can and do happen, some are malware, some are more "legit" but still very annoying. Adblock works!
DanK


----------



## camps764

I've been noticing it too, and agree whole heartedly. It actually discourages me from posting much on here anymore.


----------



## JADobson

No, Red is entirely right. This site is built entirely from user generated content and the site owners make money off of that content. Because they provide the infrastructure that isn't necessarily a bad thing but they should be wary of annoying their members. Without our forum posts, projects, reviews, &c. they have absolutely nothing marketable. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the owners shouldn't make any changes without consultation with the members.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> I would go so far as to say that the owners shouldn t make any changes without consultation with the members.
> - JADobson


But could they get a consensus? ;-)

You guys keep makin furniture. I'll keep watchin'. Maybe I'll get it figured out one of these days. ;-))

In the meantime, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!!!!!!!!


----------



## byerbyer

My lady was sufficiently surprised to find this nestled beside the tree!










I'll get it uploaded as a project once I get some better pics.

Merry Christmas LJ's! Lots of good stuff on here in the last 12 months. Excited to see where 2015 takes us.


----------



## LJRay

Oooh! Finally I can contribute to this thread! 



> Yup, and it s tickin me off. I noticed yesterday when I posted my blog yesterday there were a ton of links in the blog….and I didn t put them there.


They're common on the automotive forums I peruse. Guess I didn't really notice that they are a recent addition. Not saying it's right or wrong just saying it's a common revenue generator.



> I ll get off my soapbox now, but this is seriously the first time I ve considered making my own site or blog.


The plus side of making your own site is you never have to worry about someone else shutting down and making your work vanish (or worse). The down side of having your own site is limited exposure. Far fewer folk would be able to benefit from you knowledge or provide feedback. I suppose a compromise would be to post detailed information on a personal site and condensed version on a public site but I think a lot of information would not reach as many people as it is. Just think of number of people's input you respect and then having to click to go to external blogs for the good stuff.


----------



## RPhillips

> My lady was sufficiently surprised to find this nestled beside the tree!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ll get it uploaded as a project once I get some better pics.
> 
> Merry Christmas LJ s! Lots of good stuff on here in the last 12 months. Excited to see where 2015 takes us.
> 
> - byerbyer


Beautiful Byer! I bet someone will be getting some extra attention tonight!


----------



## jmartel

> My lady was sufficiently surprised to find this nestled beside the tree!
> 
> I ll get it uploaded as a project once I get some better pics.
> 
> Merry Christmas LJ s! Lots of good stuff on here in the last 12 months. Excited to see where 2015 takes us.
> 
> - byerbyer


I would be surprised too. It's a day early. First black friday starting on Thanksgiving and now Santa starting on Christmas eve? What is this world coming to?

But in all honesty, it looks great. A hell of a lot better than my attempt at a kitchen island a few years back (first woodworking project ever).


----------



## Mean_Dean

Hey All,

Just wanted to wish everyone a Merry Christmas! I hope the holiday finds you in good health and good spirits!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"Fragile finger, Sent to heal us
Tender brow prepared for thorn
Tiny heart, Whose blood will save us
Unto us is born, Unto us is born
Welcome to our world…."

Merry Christmas ye furniture makers. And God Bless you every one.


----------



## CL810

Merry Christmas!


----------



## vikingcape

Merry Christmas all!


----------



## yuridichesky

Merry Christmas!


----------



## ColonelTravis

This isn't technically furniture, but it sits on furniture so what the hell. I'm slowly working my way up to real furniture. First hand-made gift I've ever done. Hope everyone had a merry Christmas and didn't get the flu and lay in bed guzzling nothing but disgusting Tylenol red crap at your out-of-state in-laws' house for 35 straight hours.


----------



## jmartel

Well since my coat hooks at work broke the other day, I will be starting on a coat rack this week. Hoping to get the entire thing finished by the end of the weekend, but we will see on that. Depends on how intricate I get with the design. The main body will be 2 pieces of 8/4 walnut laminated together with 1/16" shop cut veneer pieces on the glue joint sides. Just picked up a new resaw blade for it.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Sounds like an interesting project. Are you using metal hooks, or are you going to fabricate wood ones?

Norm built a hat rack in one of his episodes, and he made steam-bent hooks to hang the hats on. I suppose, though, you could cut the hooks on the scrollsaw if you don't have a steamer.

Anyway, looking forward to seeing it!


----------



## jmartel

I'm just buying hooks. I've got a very heavy motorcycle jacket and other things that will be hung on it. I'd rather just have metal hooks that I'm not going to worry about breaking than thinner wood ones. I doubt that wood ones would break, but this is easier and will have the look I want.


----------



## jmartel

Now that I'm home, I was able to do a quick sketchup model of what I was thinking.



















Should be about 5' high, and the post will be 2.5"-3" square.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I'll probably rotate the mortises 90 deg so I can drawbore the post in. This thing will be built like a tank.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Aha! Now I've got it. For some reason, I was thinking you were building a wall-mounted rack, like the one Norm built. (I guess I've got Norm on the brain today….....)

Well, this one should look great. I'm looking forward to seeing your progress, and the final product!


----------



## jmartel

I'm hoping that I can knock it out pretty quickly. I was originally planning on a hanging tool cabinet to start this weekend, so we'll see how it goes.

These are the hooks I will be using:










And I need to make a wooden version of this to hang my helmet on.


----------



## CL810

Jmartel, How about extending the tenons thru the second base? And those hooks are nice!


----------



## jmartel

CL: I didn't think that it would be necessary to extend them through. Plus, my only real joinery saw is a Veritas dovetail saw that can only saw 1-9/16". I'd have to rig up some sort of infeed table for my bandsaw, and I wanted to practice hand cut tenons anyway.


----------



## Iguana

Working on laying out some curves on the next project.









Happy New Year's and have a great 2015!


----------



## Mean_Dean

Here's wishing everyone a Happy New Years!! May it be happy, prosperous, and safe!

Don't go too crazy tonight, just a couple of bourbons, ok? Because tomorrow, there are a couple of exciting games!

Go Ducks!

See you all next year!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Back at ya Dean.

I haven't been working on any furniture….just a surface to place my furniture. Tore out the carpet and tile and put in some acacia floors. Me likey.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Good to see ya back in the forum, Big Red One! Was wondering where you were.

That floor looks great! When you get done, you can do my place…......!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Oh I'm still around brother. Just nothin to contriburte. I've got some remodeling stuff going on right now. I'm sure I'll be back in the shop in a week or two.


----------



## CFrye

Sweet, Red! Does the new flooring extend into the shop? 
Happy New Year, ya'll be safe.


----------



## JADobson

Red, floor looks great. I'm going to be helping my parents put in a laminate floor on Saturday. Wish it was real wood but its their house.

Mark, what's it like working on the new bench? Looks great.


----------



## DanKrager

Yessir! Great floor Red. Gotta be a good feeling to be able to do such stuff yourself.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

DAMN, Red got the furniture in already! I think time slows down when he's working.


----------



## Iguana

Freakin' awesome, James. Loving it. Don't know how I managed without a surface vise.


----------



## RPhillips

Floor looks great Red!

Hoping to start my first real furniture project in the coming weeks. Wife bought me plans for a chest from Woodcraft that she want me to make.. wish me luck!


----------



## jmartel

Started the coat tree this morning. Got the main post glued up.










Will be gluing up the bottom next, slicing off 1/16" from each face of the post to put on the glue joint sides, and cutting out the bottom braces.


----------



## DanKrager

Good luck, R. We're here for ya…

DanK

Edit: what new tools will this require?


----------



## ColonelTravis

Great floor, Red. My wife and I put down hardwoods ourselves when we moved into our new house years ago. Pretty easy technically, but when we were done I found a note that said:



> If you ever do this again without pads we will kill you.
> Sincerely,
> Your Knees


----------



## Wally331

I finished up my big "Belgian Trestle table" on christmas day, delivered it the day after. Wow was that ever a big project! I'm usually pretty good at estimating how long something would take, actual working time was probably twice as long as I had planned. Nevertheless it was great fun to build. About 25% power tools, 75% handtools. Nearly all of the mortise and tenon joints were by hand, about 75% of lumber milling was done by hand. Good stuff!

Trestle bases are made from 3.5 X 3.5 inch soft maple laminated timbers- I think they were 6/4 stock. Table top is 7/8 in the middle with a 1.25 in skirt and breadboard ends. Table is 8ft by 3 feet. Whole deal weighs probably in the 250 lbs range  I'll post a project soon enough…




































The client is going to stain and varnish it so that's a relief! They loved it though, and now I've got a matching bench to build. Just another project to delay my cherry corner cabinet haha!


----------



## CL810

^ WOW!


----------



## ToddJB

Awesome job, Wally


----------



## jmartel

Messy bench, but squaring up the post after gluing:










And I sliced off a few 3/32" veneers from the post to cover the glue lines










The veneers are gluing on now. The feet are gluing up as well. Tomorrow will be cutting the joinery, shaping the feet, and shaping the brackets. I shouldn't have a problem getting everything finished tomorrow and the first coat of finish on.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Jmart, you've definitely got your bandsaw running better than my shopfox. I need to try one of those woodslicers.

Wally- you continue to impress.


----------



## jmartel

$30 for a blade. Not the cheapest out there, but still pretty cheap and definitely a great blade.

I'm assuming you set it up per the snodgrass video?


----------



## RPhillips

Jmart, can you link that vid and what blade you picked up? I'm interested…


----------



## jmartel

Rob:

Blade is here. http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/wood-slicer-resaw-bandsaw-blades.aspx

My grizzly is a 14" saw with a 6" riser block, so it's a 105" long blade. Width is 1/2" since 14" saws don't do as well with 3/4" blade tension.

Video is here:


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> $30 for a blade. Not the cheapest out there, but still pretty cheap and definitely a great blade.
> 
> I m assuming you set it up per the snodgrass video?
> 
> - jmartel


Nah, I've only set it up with the manual. I probably need to put some more time in that machine before I give up on it.


----------



## CL810

I've been using the woodslicer for years now. I've had same experience as Jmartel.


----------



## jmartel

> Nah, I ve only set it up with the manual. I probably need to put some more time in that machine before I give up on it.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Watch the first half of the snodgrass video for resaw/straight line setup. Simple to do, only takes a few minutes. Results speak for themselves. I was able to get some good results with the Olson blade I originally bought from Rockler, but the setup benefitted even more from the Woodslicer blade. You don't have to worry about bandsaw drift at all.

And then when you set it up for curves, you have to do it differently. So, it isn't a one time thing.


----------



## CL810

I took a bandsaw tune up class with Michael Fortune. He said that with a bandsaw properly set up and a sharp blade drift does not occur. I was resawing veneer recently and out of the blue it started drifting. Realized blade had been on there a looking time so I put a new one on and the drifting stopped.


----------



## RPhillips

Thanks jmart.

I bought a woodslicer for my craftsman (Rikon clone) to use to cut those big ass timbers I used on my bench, but it failed miserably. Looking back, I think it was the wet wook causing the issue.

I recently put the blade on to cut some 4/4 stock down to 1/4, but the drift was horrid and it was burning the wood. Looking at the blade the other day, I think it might be a build up of pitch causing the issue, but not sure. Going to try cleaning before I get another.

What works good to clean blades? Does Evapo-rust work?


----------



## JayT

Rob, I use diluted Simple Green and a nylon brush to clean blades and it works well.


----------



## CL810

Is there a way too tell if wood (walnut and poplar) is kiln dried or air dried?


----------



## SASmith

CL810, I don't know of a way for poplar, but if your walnut has dark(er) sapwood you can bet that it was kiln dried and steamed.

Edited to add:
Steamed walnut article


----------



## jmartel

90% finished. Need to shape the feet, trim the dowels flush, and finish sanding.


----------



## ToddJB

I like it, Jmart.


----------



## jmartel

I was hoping to be finished and have the first coat of Arm-R-Seal on tonight, but I didn't start working till about noon. I should still be able to put 2 coats on tomorrow, provided I get up at a decent time and work somewhat quickly.


----------



## Buckethead

Looks fantastic, and you're working at a blistering pace. Lots of progress.


----------



## jmartel

Well it's not exactly a complicated build. There's a half lap joint and a double mortise & tenon joint. That's it. The rest is just gluing up enough walnut to make it large enough, and then smoothing & shaping. My goal was to have it ready to take into work on Monday. It may have to wait till Tuesday. We'll see.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> Well it s not exactly a complicated build. There s a half lap joint and a double mortise & tenon joint. That s it. The rest is just gluing up enough walnut to make it large enough, and then smoothing & shaping. My goal was to have it ready to take into work on Monday. It may have to wait till Tuesday. We ll see.
> 
> - jmartel


Coming along very nicely.


----------



## jmartel

As usual, something comes up to delay finishing a project. My puny $10 hardware store special rasp just isn't up for the feet on the coat rack, even with cutting it close with a hand saw. I would be at it all day. Going to pick up one of those Shinto saw rasps to help out.


----------



## vikingcape

Looks nice jmartel.


----------



## Mean_Dean

She's lookin' good, Jmartel!


----------



## CFrye

> As usual, something comes up to delay finishing a project. My puny $10 hardware store special rasp just isn t up for the feet on the coat rack, even with cutting it close with a hand saw. I would be at it all day. Going to pick up one of those Shinto saw rasps to help out.
> 
> - jmartel


Awww, if you have to…
;-)


----------



## jmartel

Of course, the local Rockler was out of them. So, now I gotta wait for one to come in from Amazon. I'm sure I'll find something else to start in the meantime.


----------



## j1212t

I stumbled onto an awesome video on Sam Maloof yesterday (big thanks to mr David Picciuto aka The drunken woodworker for doing the year end special wrap up)

Now you guys have probably seen it, because most of you are a lot more well versed in the subject than I am. But anyhow if you haven't then you'll thoroughly enjoy it!. A 30 minute video on Mr Maloof building furniture at the young age of 88


----------



## vikingcape

A furniture making show called "Framework" starting tonight on Spike. Looks like some cool stuff


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Cool Kaleb. Looks more interesting than most of the crud on tv these days.

Jake thanks for the Maloof vid. I've seen snippets but never the whole thing. Good stuff.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks the heads up on that new show, cant wait to check it out!


----------



## j1212t

Hey, I have a itch to make myself a Maloof-inspired staircase in our house once I get around to it.

Has anyone seen any construction process blogs, or do any of you have experience with building similar staircases? I am by no means in a hurry, just thought I want to start pricing out and thinking about.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jake- the only think I've done with staircases is remodel them. I've changed railings and reskinned parts to bring them up to date. Which, ironically is what I'm working on right now with my remodeling project. I'm certain there are some good books out there though.

Another bit of irony, remember the reclaimed dining table I built a month ago? I watch lookin through the Doucette and Wolfe youtube channel and saw this table: 




I had to chuckle. That's the same hardware setup my buddy wants to install on it. Not sure if it was their table he found on the webs for the idea or not. Then, they used a dovetailed breadboard just like I did. Here I thought I was coming up with something original that was mostly used on workbenches….hehehe. It's all been done before I guess.


----------



## CL810

Red, you shoulda charged more. lol


----------



## jmartel

Rasp should be in today so I can probably finish shaping the legs on the coat tree. Goal now is to bring it in to work on Sunday when I need to grab some things anyway. Also, my LV Low angle smoother should be here today as well. So, I'll be playing in the garage for a bit tonight.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, you shoulda charged more. lol
> 
> - CL810


That's the darn thing about Andy, I didn't charge them a dime! It's all in trade for his painting services. My living room better look like the Sistine Chapel when he's done. Lawl.


----------



## CL810

Jmart, We're all looking forward to a full report on the rasp.


----------



## summerfi

Greetings everyone. I've avoided this thread until now, simply because there isn't enough time to read everything on LJ. I haven't made any furniture for a long time, but I thought I'd share with you a little project I'm working on now. It's a small table that will go beside my chair to set my laptop on when not in use. The body is mahogany except for the side and back aprons. They are salvaged from an old dining table and are mahogany veneer over a poplar core. The top is bookmatched maple burl veneer. It is just dry fit in the second two pics. I've not made the drawer yet. It will have a burl veneer front that matches the top. This little guy is only 24" tall and 12" x 18" on top, so it was a good project to use up some wood scraps.


----------



## ToddJB

Nice little table, Bob. Did you turn the legs or were those the original from the dining table?


----------



## summerfi

Thanks Todd. I turned the legs.


----------



## ToddJB

Great job.


----------



## vikingcape

Beautiful table there Bob. I only started turning about 10 days ago (whenever Christmas was) so trying to match things turning is pretty amazing in my book


----------



## b2rtch

I have been disappointed with Woodslicer blades as they dull extremely fast.
I now use bi-metal blades, they last much longer and I like them much better.


----------



## b2rtch

Bob, your table is beautiful.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Hey everybody,

Just got my plane package from JayT this afternoon! He also threw in three card scrapers as well!

*In the Box:*










*Ready for use:
*










Thanks again to JayT for his generosity and willingness to help out a beginning hand-planer. I really appreciate it, and look forward to helping out a beginning woodworker myself sometime in the future!


----------



## CL810

Bert, which brand of blade do you use?


----------



## GEdmonds

Newcomer to this thread. Been woodworking for a few years but am getting into furniture mostly now. Rather than read the whole thread, thought I would post my question here at the end. Have a couple walnut panels on the end of a bar I made. Glued joints are separating. What should I have done to prevent?


----------



## CL810

Pics would be helpful Gedmonds.


----------



## SASmith

GEdmonds, if the glue joint is splitting on the ends a spring joint might have helped.
The panels should also float in grooves to allow for expansion and contraction. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## jmartel

Roughed in one of the feet. Still needs a bit more time, but this was about 5 minutes with it.










Yeah, this'll do nicely. A good use of $20.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^I've yet to try one of those Jmart. Looks like it could hog off some material.

Bob- your just gonna have to "unwatch" some of those boring forums and join the action here;-) Sweet work on the table.

JayT- good on you brother.

Dean- congrats. Some advice. If anything just try planing the edge of things. Pretty easy to read grain this way:








Left pic is wrong, right is correct. Even just planing the edges can save a lot of sanding.


----------



## mochoa

Bob, excellent work on that table, I may have to experiment with veneers like that one day.

Bret, I used a wood slicer once, I'm not actually a big fan of them. They cut ok but due to the very small kerf you have to be dead on with your set up. Also, the price discourages you from changing blades as often as you should. Also, I believe Michael Fortuns advise on going with 3tpi which they don't have (only the 3-4 TPI) 
I have much better results with a cheap Olson blade, the cut isn't as smooth but I don't mind that. Also, more set on the teeth means that your set up doesn't have to be so dead on.

Red, why does that 164 look black?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, why does that 164 look black?
> 
> - Mauricio


hehe. I dunno. Just a interwebz pic to help.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

As the Cherry Ages. Lotta people don't realize that the great American hardwood turns amber as it ages. Sunlight speeds up this natural process. Here's my four year old dining set compared to a freshly turned vase for my wife. Sometimes furniture makers stain cherry to achieve the "aged" look. However, this is folly because as the years go by, the cherry darkens under the stain making a really dark wood. Explains why guests in our home have commented, "This is cherry? I thought cherry was much darker.


----------



## Waldo88

My first experience with finishing was with some cherry nightstands I was refinishing. At the time I had no idea what wood they were. My wife prefers the look of walnut, so I used a dark walnut colored watco oil on them. As time has passed they have gotten quite dark. I think that it is quite a cool look; they look vary natural yet are a dark chocolate color with reddish hints. At first the color was pretty close to walnut.


----------



## DaddyZ

I typically don't like to use stains of any kind (doesn't mean I haven't used any).

I like the look of the natural wood, which in my op looks richer as time goes by.


----------



## jmartel

> Bret, I used a wood slicer once, I'm not actually a big fan of them. They cut ok but due to the very small kerf you have to be dead on with your set up. Also, the price discourages you from changing blades as often as you should. Also, I believe Michael Fortuns advise on going with 3tpi which they don't have (only the 3-4 TPI)
> I have much better results with a cheap Olson blade, the cut isn't as smooth but I don't mind that. Also, more set on the teeth means that your set up doesn't have to be so dead on.
> 
> - Mauricio


I've had the opposite experience. I didn't care for the Olson as much, now that I've tried the woodslicer. I get a better finish, it cuts faster, and it's more accurate.



> ^I ve yet to try one of those Jmart. Looks like it could hog off some material.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


That was just a few minutes of working with it. The small handheld rasp I had been using barely made a dent in it in about 10 minutes. It's very good for roughing in large curves, especially on thicker stock. The legs are 3" wide on the coat rack.



> Lotta people don t realize that the great American hardwood turns amber as it ages. Sunlight speeds up this natural process. Here s my four year old dining set compared to a freshly turned vase for my wife. Sometimes furniture makers stain cherry to achieve the "aged" look. However, this is folly because as the years go by, the cherry darkens under the stain making a really dark wood. Explains why guests in our home have commented, "This is cherry? I thought cherry was much darker.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Because very little "Cherry" that people buy is actually cherry. It's stained unknown wood with a dark stain.

My parents have a full dining room set and a full bedroom set from Thomasville I believe. When they got it, it was lighter, but it was still stained darker than cherry typically is.

Personally, I have very little use for stains. I'd rather just use the wood I want instead of fussing with trying to stain something to match. I think I've stained 3 things total so far. 1) My kitchen island that was my first project ever with pine from a BORG (have since moved and gotten rid of it), 2) My under the TV cabinet/stand thing to hold my Xbox and some movies, and I only stained the ply. The front cherry faceframe is natural, and 3) my wife wanted to make a "rustic" looking sign board thingy this past weekend, so we stained it a "Dark Ash" stain which looks nothing like any Ash wood that I've seen before. It's a dark grey.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Ok Big Red One,

I've noticed that when boards come out of the planer, they're "sanded" to about 120 grit. At that point, I start my sanding schedule at 120, finishing at 220. I use this schedule for all hardwoods.

So, should I assume that boards planed with my new handplane are at 120 also? Or do people just stop with the handplaning, and not finish sand to 220?


----------



## jmartel

Dean,

It depends on what plane you use. Now that I actually own a smoother, I can say that I won't need to sand after using it at all. Same for if you're using a scraper, but I've typically just used 220 grit after using my #80 scraper.


----------



## JayT

A good, sharp smoothing plane will leave a surface much smoother than sandpaper. It's tough to compare because a plane cuts the fibers, while sandpaper abrades them. Suffice it to say that I've sanded up to 800 grit and not gotten as smooth of a finish as the plane leaves.

In general, if using a film finish, I don't do anything to the wood after smoothing. If staining, I'll hit the surface with some 220-not to make it smoother, but to rough it up so that the stain will soak in better.


----------



## jmartel

I watched a video from Lee Valley this morning about setting up my smoother, and they suggested burnishing the surface of the wood with a balled up clump of the shavings from it. It smooths it further and gives it a light polish, apparently.


----------



## Slyy

> I watched a video from Lee Valley this morning about setting up my smoother, and they suggested burnishing the surface of the wood with a balled up clump of the shavings from it. It smooths it further and gives it a light polish, apparently.
> 
> - jmartel


I've seen the good Mr. Sllers use the same technique JMart. Makes sense, similar to a "boning" process as well just with shavings instead of a bone or other piece of wood.


----------



## GMatheson

I use the handful of shaving approach to burnish on the lathe but never though of using it on regular projects


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Ok Big Red One,
> 
> I ve noticed that when boards come out of the planer, they re "sanded" to about 120 grit. At that point, I start my sanding schedule at 120, finishing at 220. I use this schedule for all hardwoods.
> 
> So, should I assume that boards planed with my new handplane are at 120 also? Or do people just stop with the handplaning, and not finish sand to 220?
> 
> - Mean_Dean


The guys are guiding you right. Did you try the plane on an edge? Couple swipes and your done. Finish ready.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> Bob- your just gonna have to "unwatch" some of those boring forums and join the action here;-) Sweet work on the table.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


That is good advise! I have abandoned nearly all except this one and I'm just a wannbe. Great info come off this thread.


----------



## DaddyZ

Agreed Topa !!

Red started a fine thread indeed


----------



## Mean_Dean

> In general, if using a film finish, I don t do anything to the wood after smoothing. If staining, I ll hit the surface with some 220-not to make it smoother, but to rough it up so that the stain will soak in better.
> 
> - JayT


Got it! That's what I'll be doing from now on.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Agreed Topa !!
> 
> Red started a fine thread indeed
> 
> - DaddyZ


Thanks man. I'm with you about not staining most woods, especially cherry and walnut. Just an oil finish is all the need. Tastes vary though. Can't blame someone else for what they like. Oak on the other hand, is always improved with stain imo.

When we were deciding on flooring we saw that some styles of acacia were stained to "tone down" the color variances. This seemed silly because the reason we love acacia is because of the color variances and wild grain. We enjoy the biblical relevance as well.


----------



## ToddJB

Trying to build your own temple huh, Red? Those labors who worked on the tower of Babel might attempt to talk you out of it, but who can understand any of them anyways?


----------



## RPhillips

> Agreed Topa !!
> 
> Red started a fine thread indeed
> 
> - DaddyZ
> 
> Thanks man. I m with you about not staining most woods, especially cherry and walnut. Just an oil finish is all the need. Tastes vary though. Can t blame someone else for what they like. Oak on the other hand, is always improved with stain imo.
> 
> When we were deciding on flooring we saw that some styles of acacia were stained to "tone down" the color variances. This seemed silly because the reason we love acacia is because of the color variances and wild grain. We enjoy the biblical relevance as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Red, that's what I loved about that flooring too. Lots of contrast. The stuff I installed was called "Tobacco Road" by Virginia Millworks < Lumber Liquidators "brand"


----------



## duckmilk

> - BigRedKnothead


One of Red's elves tippy toeing across that beautiful floor. Do you make everyone take their shoes off now?

Nothing to contribute (don't think my adirondacks are furniture or quite up to snuff), but agree this is a great thread.


----------



## vikingcape

Red, why don't you take that floor up and make something with it? Kidding, that's a beautiful floor


----------



## BigRedKnothead

It's all good Duck. I'm gonna bust out some adirondacks this spring. I'll be happy if they turn out as good as yours.

Rob- we're real happy with the acacia. If you ever put more in, I think that stuff I got is an even better product that lumber liquidators…and cheaper. Hit me up if you do.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

What is that stuff you have Red? We may be doing the kitchen one of these days.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

It's 5" hand scraped acacia. Got it here:

http://www.worldfloorsdirect.com/solid-acacia-birch-hardwood

I put it in the dining room too, but I'm gonna tile the kitchen. 









Gonna get back in the shop this week to make some custom A&C trim and casings for my entry way and stairs. I'll keep ya posted.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Thanks, but I'm a bit confused. Is it acacia or birch?


----------



## RPhillips

> It s all good Duck. I m gonna bust out some adirondacks this spring. I ll be happy if they turn out as good as yours.
> 
> Rob- we re real happy with the acacia. If you ever put more in, I think that stuff I got is an even better product that lumber liquidators…and cheaper. Hit me up if you do.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Will do, planning a find a new home in the not so distant future, so might need.


----------



## RPhillips

> Thanks, but I m a bit confused. Is it acacia or birch?
> 
> - TopamaxSurvivor


It's Acacia. The Birch is at the bottom of the sites page.

I put down a engineered (real wood, but only about 3/32" top layer) birch floor in my first house. it was beautiful, had a nice mix of colors, including spalted pieces.


----------



## mochoa

A couple of question for you guys on web frames in case construction?

-Do you go full M&T on these, stub tenons, or is this one of those places Pocket screws work just fine. (Assuming your not a pocket screw snob which I am not in certain applications. ;-) )

-Do you attache to the sides with simple dado's or with sliding DT as I saw in a recent FW article? Ive also seen where the frame is dadoed but then the front frame piece is DT to make it look like a full length slider. (The piece I'm planning will be painted so I don't want to go crazy)

I'd be interested in you guys thoughts on a practical way to do these. Thanks!


----------



## terryR

.


----------



## mochoa

^?


----------



## byerbyer

Floor looks good BRK. I hoping to sand down my oak floors this winter and refinish them.


----------



## b2rtch

CL 801, I have a local shop make my blades, I believe that they use Lenox.
I do not remember the price but it was fairly inexpensive.

American Saw & Hammering Inc
3202 S West Temple, 
Salt Lake City, UT 84115
(801) 467-4903

The acacias hardwood floor is to busy for my taste.


----------



## Hammerthumb

> A couple of question for you guys on web frames in case construction?
> 
> -Do you go full M&T on these, stub tenons, or is this one of those places Pocket screws work just fine. (Assuming your not a pocket screw snob which I am not in certain applications. ;-) )
> 
> -Do you attache to the sides with simple dado s or with sliding DT as I saw in a recent FW article? Ive also seen where the frame is dadoed but then the front frame piece is DT to make it look like a full length slider. (The piece I m planning will be painted so I don t want to go crazy)
> 
> I d be interested in you guys thoughts on a practical way to do these. Thanks!
> 
> - Mauricio


Lot of variables Mauricio. Are the case sides ply or solid? If ply, I just dado and glue them in. Face frames could be dovetailed.










If the sides are solid, I will use M/T but leave the MTs on the back part of the web frame floating (no glue) and only glue the front 2-3 inches of the web frames, and the back rail.

The jewelry chest I made for my wife had the web frames just pinned at the front with brass pins. The frames totally floated in the dados with no glue.


----------



## mochoa

That's beautiful work Paul!

Thanks for the tips, makes sense. In my case the inside would be Plywood and the right side would be solid F&P so I would dado or MT into the back of the F&P.

On the F&P side I could just dado and glue it in to the styles and not the panel. wood movement shouldn't be an issue on the short'ish width of the Styles.

What would the old timers do on a piece like this cut nails through the Stlye from he outside into the Web Frame? that's also an option wont be seen after the paint.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> A couple of question for you guys on web frames in case construction?
> 
> -Do you go full M&T on these, stub tenons, or is this one of those places Pocket screws work just fine. (Assuming your not a pocket screw snob which I am not in certain applications. ;-) )
> 
> -Do you attache to the sides with simple dado s or with sliding DT as I saw in a recent FW article? Ive also seen where the frame is dadoed but then the front frame piece is DT to make it look like a full length slider. (The piece I m planning will be painted so I don t want to go crazy)
> 
> I d be interested in you guys thoughts on a practical way to do these. Thanks!
> 
> - Mauricio


Maur- Depends on the "quality" level I'm going for with the piece. For my cherry dining hutch, I use M&T on the face frames. However, I about the only thing I use pocket screw for is face frames….and they work very well. Any time I'm building cabinets, I bust out the pocket screws. Depends on the price/quality aspect of the piece.

For attaching face frames, I did a blog on those….that works up in the progression of quality. 
http://lumberjocks.com/BigRedKnothead/blog/42757

If it's for the corners of that desk, I would consider a spline or locking rabbit.


----------



## mochoa

Yeah I wouldn't use pocket screws on the external case, that is structural and I would definitely go with M&T on that. My question was more about the Web Frames which also could be considered structural. Although running a groove with little 1/4" stub tenons to put it all together is about the same amount of effort as doing pocket screws.

So you would join the F&P's to one another with locking rabbets? Mmmm. I don't know, I'm not inclined to re-enforce a long grain to long grain joint like that. I might just use pocket screws there to hold it while the glue dries. The rabbets do help with alignment though. Perhaps it would be an excuse the use the T&G plane!


----------



## terryR

sorry, Maur, was posting to get to the bottom!
hangs head in shame…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"I'm not inclined to re-enforce a long grain to long grain joint like that." You might have to edjamacate me there Maur. I'm not aware of issue with long grain joints like that. I could see the issue if it were end grain joining long grain.

Could you attach a small cleats below for the web frames?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Not sure I'm understanding your design Maur, but doing a frame and panel case with web frame dividers - as long as they are constructed the same, you should be safe adhering the web frames to the case frames (not the panels though). If you are not sure about the wood movement, make the web frames slightly smaller using M/T construction but don't glue the stiles to the rails at the back of the web frame. Allow them to float in the tenons. Hope that makes sense.


----------



## mochoa

Red, no I wasn't saying there was an issue, was saying that besides helping with alignment a toung and grove or locking rabbet doesn't add to the strength of the joint but it will certainly help with alignment when assembling.

The cleat is a viable option as well.

Paul, makes perfect sense, thanks for the input.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I paid over $80 for a sheet of 1/4" quartersawn white oak ply yesterday! I would slowly like to eliminate plywood from my projects, and I'm starting to think sheet goods are gonna price themselves right out of my projects.

Really, ply is the only solution for skinning a stairway, as I'm about to do. However, there have been a few times lately when I bought ply to use and the back of a piece, and it may have been cheaper to use some cedar or the like. We'll see.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Just checked my lumberman. He has the same for $57.86. I don't know if you have any other sources, but I think I would shop around if I were you.


----------



## ShaneA

$80 a sheet for QSWO ply seems about right for my area, maybe even a bit lower than I could get. When I bought the 1/4" good both sides walnut ply last time it was $80 a sheet. The good one face was only like $40. The good one face may not always be an option is all species I could imagine.


----------



## terryR

The same ply is about $75 here in AL/TN. Pretty on both sides.

Red, how about some 4/4 barn oak for your stairs? Guarantee it's American made and dry! LOL.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I think the cost of plywood might have something to do with the location of veneer facilities. The west coast has several.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Paul, cheapest I found was $78…and that was an hour drive. I guess I've been buying cabinet grade ply for about 6 or 7 years now. The prices have steadily climbed, but then again, so has the lumber. I guess that's why I started searching so hard for small time sawyers.

Kinda funny. I got that from "Intermountain wood products" in Omaha. They are the big boys here. All the cabinets shop get their lumber from them. It as been so long since I purchased from them they had froze my acct. I just said, "ya, I've been using some other options." I guess this guy was the manager and wanted to know if there was anything they could do to get my business. I kindly told him why small-time guys don't go there:
1) They won't let you select lumber. They bring it out with a forklift and you have to take it off the top. Not a huge deal since it's all select, but still….tough on a furniture maker. 
2) They act annoyed when your buying just one sheet of ply, or like 50 bd ft of lumber. Hey, it's better than you guys sitting around doin nothin!
3) I asked for a quote for 500+ sq feet of flooring last month, but even though I have an acct, they only want to sell to flooring contractors.

The manager listened and acknowledged my concerns, but had no response….because we both know they're not changing any of those polices….lol. Well, now he knows. I'll probably drop a grand on lumber for that dining set this next month, but I doubt it will be there.

Terry, when I post what I'm doin with the stairs you'll see. There will be some solid oak involved as well, but I need something long, thin, and stable to cover the stringers.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Hey Guys,

Just wanted to pass along an excellent video on making accurate box joints by William Ng.

This link is to his blog on the subject here at LJ's, in case you wanted to post a reply.


----------



## camps764

Red - Sounds pretty consistent with my experiences going there. I usually B.S. with the guys running the forklift a bit, and they don't complain or act too put out out if I rifle through the pile a bit. I just make sure to neatly stack it all back the way I found it. I still really only go there if I don't have time for a run elsewhere. That being said, their prices ain't bad, and it's beats the pants off the pricing at Midwest Woodworkers.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Steve, that Midwest Woodworkers is a bunch of crooks. Sorry to say it, but I've seen them pull some shady stuff. Wish we had some better options around….but it is what it is.

Other news, I started reading Schwarz' latest book Campaign Furniture. I bought it even though I'm not really interested in that style because I was hoping it would just be educational. Well, I was right. It's a darn good book. Interesting and informative to anyone who loves this craft. The folks at Lost Art Press are doing a service to this craft in my opinion.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

This little pattern might not look like much, but it made me smile. Right after college I attempted to "skin" staircase with oak. Good thing I was getting paid by the hour, each pattern took me two or three attempts. I got this one my first try. What a difference a little age and experience makes.


----------



## Buckethead

That's nice looking work, Red. Those skirts are tough enough to get done even without the rounded nosing, but having to deal with those adds whole nuther level of PITA.


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## DanKrager

Nice work, BRK. I didn't see what you were talking about for several minutes…it fit so well! 
DanK


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## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys. It's only gotta be "carpet close", as I am still carpeting the treads. I pity anyone who tries to skin the stringers on a staircase where the treads are to be wood as well.

It's interesting how my furniture skills rollover into remodeling and general carpentry. In a sense, I was using/making a story stick.


----------



## ToddJB

I wanted to do this with my stairs to my basement, but every steps is drastically different because it was pour concrete from a million years ago. So they're not flat and not standardized. No thank you.

Yours came out awesome.


----------



## summerfi

Nice job Red. It's hard to get something that irregular shaped to fit well.

As long as we're talking stairs, I may as well brag about mine. Sorry for the poor pictures. It is dark inside and my camera doesn't like that. The wall where the stairs are going up was a solid wall when we moved in. I opened it up by removing only the parts of the drywall and studs that was necessary. The stairs were carpeted when I started this project.










The stairs were very steep, so I added an extra step in the corner. That meant I had to readjust the height of all the other steps with shims of graduated thickness. That gave me a headache for awhile, but it did make the stairway a little less steep.










I bought the newel post and the balusters, but I turned the taller corner post to match.










Making this rounded corner at the bottom was fun. It is multiple pieces of laminated 1/8" plywood formed on a jig, and then veneered with oak.










One of the hardest parts was making this piece by hand. Getting the size and shape just right to fit my application was a challenge.










The treads are solid oak on the nose, but oak laminate flooring over plywood elsewhere, and the risers are also laminate flooring over plywood. I wanted the oak look, but I didn't want the treads to be slippery, so I inlaid carpet in a recess on each tread. The carpet is worn now and needs to be replaced.










I made the hand rail by turning a round oak piece, then making a jig to cut flutes with a router. Then I made the end pieces and doweled them on.










From the top looking down. It was a challenging project, but I'm pleased with how it came out.


----------



## b2rtch

Bob, these stairs are very nice.
Back home ( in France) I am always in admiration for those who made some of the stairs and the hand rails, some are just real piece of art.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ Most excellent Bob. The slippery issue was why I didn't go wood treads…..Yet. Clever solution there.

Also, I have a friend who's staircase could use that extra step

Todd, I was fortunate my stairs were very consistent. This place was built by some solid carpenters back in the 70s.

Most the piece for the entry way made:


----------



## ToddJB

Wow, Bob. Awesome job. Nice stairway


----------



## summerfi

Except for the drawer pull, which is on order, I've finished the little table for setting my laptop on. Mahogany with maple burl veneer on top and drawer front.


----------



## theoldfart

nice work Bob.


----------



## JayT

Bob, that table is way too nice for the laptop. You can keep the computer, send me the table.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice work on the table Bob. What did you use under the tops veneer?


----------



## summerfi

Thanks guys. It is a piece of 1/2" cabinet grade vertical grain fir plywood Paul.


----------



## CL810

Incredible work Bob and some more great stories.


----------



## Iguana

Nice work on the stairs and laptop desk, Bob. Love the carved detail on the handrails.


----------



## Iguana

I've got a commission from a client to build a printer stand. I've got overall dimensions for the piece, but carte blanche in terms of style.

Looking around their house, the furniture is all quite nice, some of it bordering on "fine". At least 2 pieces that were custom built. Nothing rustic or modern. So I've got a lot of leeway, but also have to fulfill some implicit expectations.

My thoughts are to build it in the Federal style. Always wanted to build a Federal piece, this seems like the perfect opportunity.

Do any of you know of good resources for this style? The kind that Google doesn't easily cough up? Maybe even a book titled something like "Elements of the Federal Style for Woodworkers"?


----------



## vikingcape

https://books.google.com/books?id=c46bh2sHAu4C&pg=PP8&lpg=PP8&dq=steve+latta+and+federal+style&source=bl&ots=UjWccyShMc&sig=bWpXjAnh1qkTS8e6TLt-Vx0u638&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pLi3VPu3BNaSsQTMu4G4Dw&ved=0CE4Q6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=steve%20latta%20and%20federal%20style&f=false

Hopefully this works Mark. Try this maybe? Don't know if this is what you want, but it starts with federal furniture.


----------



## wormil

Great looking table Bob.


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## jmartel

No design restrictions would be nice, but I think would also be more stressful. You don't know if they will like it or not since they aren't telling you exactly what they want.


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## terryR

Bob…WOW!


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## byerbyer

Well done Bob!


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## BigRedKnothead

I wanna be like Bob when I grow up.


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## summerfi

Who said I grew up Red?


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## BigRedKnothead

Ya, that's one of the things I like about ya Bob.

I grew up somewhat. It kinda snuck up on me.

Oh! Particle board night stands in my shop? Well, how do you tell a widow you don't want finish a project that her late husband left unfinished? You don't.

I'm gonna need some paint


----------



## DanKrager

Real nice, Bob. Jealous.
Good on ya BRK. Sealer, couple coats lacquer, then spray paint away! You'll make them look nice.

I have finally figured out what I want to be when I grow up.
.
.
.
. 
(wait for it…)
.
.
.
.
Very old.
DanK


----------



## Mean_Dean

> I m gonna need some paint
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Actually Big Red One, why not some veneer? It would look better than paint (IMO), and you could apply it with contact cement and a J-roller, so it wouldn't be that much work.

And with veneer, she gets to choose what species. She might be partial to Curly Giant Sequoia, say, and would get 2 pieces of furniture for a fraction of the price of the solid hardwood.

Anyway, just thinking out loud!


----------



## Iguana

Kaleb, thanks for the link. I have the (electronic) set of back issues for FWW. That is definitely a place to start.



> No design restrictions would be nice, but I think would also be more stressful. You don t know if they will like it or not since they aren t telling you exactly what they want.
> 
> - jmartel


They do want to see drawings, so I'll have a checkpoint before I begin building. I'm confident in my abilities to give them a very nice stand (more like a small vertical chest of drawers) but there's no way I'd build something that involved without at least some client input


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## jmartel

First coat of finish is on.


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## Buckethead

Looking good, Jmart.


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## BigRedKnothead

Nice Jmart. Looks to be slightly better quality than the ones I saw at Target;-)



> Actually Big Red One, why not some veneer? It would look better than paint (IMO), and you could apply it with contact cement and a J-roller, so it wouldn t be that much work.
> 
> And with veneer, she gets to choose what species. She might be partial to Curly Giant Sequoia, say, and would get 2 pieces of furniture for a fraction of the price of the solid hardwood.
> 
> Anyway, just thinking out loud!
> 
> - Mean_Dean


Not a bad I idea Dean. I was gonna glue some hardwood on the edges. I'll give her some options.


----------



## ToddJB

> First coat of finish is on.
> 
> - jmartel


But the real question is when does the first finnish coat go on?


----------



## jmartel

You've been waiting a long time to make that joke, haven't you?


----------



## ToddJB

.... but how perfect was it? Not many coat racks getting made around here.


----------



## byerbyer

Punny.. very punny. I like it.


----------



## Iguana

You guys crack me up  Todd, that was perfect.

Fine Woodworking has a page linking to a number of articles on Federal furniture and details.

I also found a book by Michael Dunbar, Federal Furniture. No longer in print, but used copies readily available. That book and a few more in the same vein have been ordered.


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## john2005

Hahaha, Todd


----------



## JADobson

Great looking stuff here guys. I don't know if anyone can remember far enough back to remember that I was turning big old legs for my kitchen table. I finally got lumber for a second leg and got it glued up yesterday and today my reeves drive on my lathe crapped out on me. So now I'm stuck again. At the risk of letting on that I sometimes creep the "state of your shop" thread I think Stef might have his bench finished before I get this table done.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That stinks James. Is the lathe fixable? Course I have the same one. I wouldn't even where to start if it broke.


----------



## JADobson

Hey Red, my neighbour is a welder and mechanic and pretty well rounded fix-it-up sort of guy. He's been over taking a look at it this afternoon. The reeves pulleys (not sure if that is the right word) wouldn't slide on the shaft to adjust the speed so he was trying to free them and ended up snapping the pulley into two pieces. He felt bad and said he would pay for fixing that and as much as I protested he insisted. So, it is over in his shop waiting for Monday so he can call around to find parts. I'm hoping there is something available locally.


----------



## Iguana

Finished up a small bench yesterday. Lots of curves on this one.










Fought my lighting/backdrop setup trying to get some good pics. Think I've got 4 or 5 keepers out of a hundred. Maybe not even that. Will be enlisting the help of my pro photog buddy to sort out the lighting setup.



















Wood is beech, with sapele wedges and accents. Finish is Minwax Wipe-On Poly.


----------



## jmartel

I should be putting up the coat tree as a finished project tomorrow provided everything goes as planned. One more coat of gloss on tonight, and one satin coat in the morning and then it will be done.

Stool looks good, Mark. You should get a roll of the white paper to hang down and create a curve in the back. Then you can bounce lights off of white sheets or something just out of frame and it will give you the results you want.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mark, you sure are a gifted in the design department. The curves add a lot.

Tiled my kitchen today. Should be back in the woodshop within a week or two.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Nice bench. will you be posting it in projects?


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## john2005

Nice bench Mark, you know we'll be expecting a bondo right?


----------



## Iguana

John, it would be a little tight for me to do a Bondo pose on this bench. It is all of 21" long. I might persuade Spawn of Satan to assist, though. 

Project post will be.forthcoming when I am happy with pics.

The legs are splayed out at 5°, which isn't obvious from these angles. That was the most interesting part of the piece from a construction aspect.

Jeff, thanks for the tips. I've got a lot to learn in that department. My wife saw the pic of your coat rack and wants one for clothes. I might have to borrow (steal, really) your design.


----------



## jmartel

Go for it. It's not my design. I stole it from someone else here:

http://hilifeoutdoorfurniture.com/products/chadwick-ii-coat-rack-handmade-alder-wood-4-cast-iron-hook-hat-stand-hall-tree-mission-arts-crafts-craftsman-style

As far as lighting your photos go, the object is to make the apparent light source be as large as possible as viewed from the workpiece you are taking photos of. So, since camera flashes and light bulbs are so small, they cause harsh shadows and point reflections as you noticed. If you direct them at a large white object such as foam core craft boards or white bedsheets hung up to bounce back at your object, it will look significantly better. 95% of product photography quality is in the lighting. The camera/lens makes very little difference.

You will want one above, and one on each side. You can change how they look by moving the light further away from each bouncing source. Something like this, but on a larger scale:

https://arqspin.com/2013/09/19/photography-lighting/

You don't need to buy softboxes as they are expensive, however you can just substitute a white sheet and place the light behind it pointed through the sheet towards the object. Same basic concept.

I also can see that the camera put the exposure a bit too dark, and the white balance is off. First photo is too warm (yellow) and the second one is a bit better, but still a bit yellow.


----------



## Buckethead

Beautiful bench mark. I agree with red regarding your eye for design. Very appealing.

Jmart, that coat rack looks ready to don a pimp hat. Does pink and purple fringe pair well with walnut?... N/M… Walnut looks good with everything.


----------



## Pezking7p

EDIT: just realized I got to the end of the last page and thought I was at the last post, hence my reply about lumber.

Wow to the skinning of the stairs, red. Matching a few treads would be difficult, but the whole run? Very impressive. It's all about measuring without measuring.

I'm very fortunate to live near two large hardwood dealers who are great to work with. In Iowa the closest was the place you go to, red, but I never made the trip there from Ames. Several local guys here but I haven't dealt with any yet. They are further away than the big guys and only slightly cheaper. I think I'll hit them up for a project soon, though.

I have so many new tools and no projects to use them on . Still working on the kitchen and the next project is a cabinet to enclose our washer and dryer that I'm not excited about. Hard to get projects done if you're not feeling them.


----------



## jmartel

> Jmart, that coat rack looks ready to don a pimp hat. Does pink and purple fringe pair well with walnut?... N/M… Walnut looks good with everything.
> 
> - Buckethead


No pimp hats here. It will get a neon yellow motorcycle helmet put on top, though. Putting probably the final coat of finish on now, and then will be putting the hooks on tonight. Going into work tomorrow.


----------



## Flocktothewall

Red I don't envy your undertaking stairs. I did that a year ago at my house, going from nasty old carpet to solid wood treads. When I saw the quote from the flooring guys there was no way I wasn't going to do it myself.



















Going from worn out carpet and no runners to hardwood and runners.


----------



## CL810

Nice job Luke.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yessir Luke. I like it. Gotta love all the savings too. My wife was somewhat adding up the cash we saved by doing all this remodeling/flooring ourselves. We've probably saved around 9-10k. I dig it.

No matter what I'm remodeling, it certainly helps to have an outfitted woodshop just downstairs!


----------



## jmartel

All finished up. Decided this morning that it didn't need another coat of finish on.










I'll post it as a project shortly.


----------



## ToddJB

Looks great. Did you decide against the helmet hook?


----------



## jmartel

Yeah. I decided there wasn't going to be enough space. So I'm just going to pop it on top. It's only about 5 1/2 feet tall, and those bottom corner braces are 18" tall.


----------



## DanKrager

Looks like a coat rack, JMart. A nice one. A real nice one.
DanK


----------



## jmartel

All finished up


----------



## j1212t

Enjoy your 3 day weekend my friends! I had a pretty productive weekend, if I do say so myself.

Test-fitted the crib head and foot assemblies.









Squared and fitted the panels









All the pieces of the header and footer stacked for final assembly.









Only have to round over the edges on the legs and then I am ready for assembly. Think I will make the assembly in 2 stages, - glue up the lower rail, then drop in the panels and glue in the middle and upper rail. Doing all 3 at the same time seems a bit too ambitious.

Or should I do it in 3 stages?


----------



## jmartel

You could also use a glue with a longer open time if you are worried about it. Titebond III has a longer open time, epoxy has a longer open time (except for the 5 min stuff), and I believe old brown glue has a longer open time as well.


----------



## vikingcape

Well…..the little wife wants a coffee table to replace our junk one. So no secretary yet but i get to use this amazing walnut slab I have been saving. Going to be fun


----------



## CFrye

Nice, Kaleb! Going to put a bowtie or butterfly in that split?


----------



## jmartel

Ooh, I see some nice feathering figure on the far side. That's going to look great once the finish hits it.


----------



## vikingcape

Thanks guys. Yes a butterfly is what I'm working on right now. Making many sizes then showing my wife and she can decide. Will be a first for me. Just treating it like a big half blind dovetail


----------



## Mean_Dean

Nice slab, Kaleb!


----------



## b2rtch

Very nice Luke,good job


----------



## j1212t

Awesome slab Kaleb!

Took the advice of mr Jmartel (thanks!)- he's never given me bad advice.

So after rounding over the posts, I made my spacer blocks and glued up the foot protion of the crib.










Today is for the header part and then a few weeks until I can show the end pic.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Good to hear. Sorry I missed your question Jake, but I too like to glue up in sections. If I need a long open time, I've been using Browns or titebond hide glue:


----------



## j1212t

I don't have these glues…  I'll have to find similar ones, or order the liquid brown from LV, it seems to be a good one.

But actually after I started thinking about the glue up as a whole, it wasn't too difficult. Just scraped the top and middle tenon a bit (6 passes on each side with a chisel) so I could make it slide in place easier and as I only glued in the bottom of the panels to allow for wood movement, the whole glue up probably only took like 5-10 minutes. Which is just about enough for a PVA glue.

i just needed to think of it as a whole glue up, instead of a partial glue up and that's why I love this place. Instant knowledge.


----------



## jmartel

Good news there, Jake.

I should be able to start the next build tonight. It will likely be the nicest damn catbox you guys have ever seen. Same general style as this:



but out of Walnut, and a flat base not on legs. Panels I haven't decided if they should be Walnut, maple, veneered walnut burl, maple burl, or something else I have in my stash.

As far as protecting it goes, I've been using a 30 gal rubbermaid tote with a hole cut in the end for our cats, so it's going to be sized to fit one of those with lid inside. No real risk of the cats destroying the inside. I'll also make the opening such that I can slide a panel in from the inside for when we move and the catbox goes into a laundry room or something. That way it can be a bench/blanket chest in the future.

It was between doing that or doing a bookcase next. We have a cheapo fabric cube and chipboard thingy for now, so a bookcase isn't as much of a priority as getting rid of looking at a rubbermaid bin.


----------



## john2005

Jake, I don't know what your shop is like, but one thing I've done with success is start gluing at lowest possible temp, and kick the heat on. By the time I'm done, temp has come up, but the pieces are still cold and take a bit longer to set. At that point I have a portable heater I take to the project (that way I don't have to move it). The portable heat finishes the job. I let that run for an hour or two than shut that off. So far it has worked well. May not be worth much but that is my system in the winter. Also probably wouldn't work as effectivly for those that have attached or well heated shops.


----------



## jmartel

Well, over lunch this was what I decided for the panels, so I placed an order.










Also grabbed some more fiddleback sycamore and a big piece of cherry burl. Not sure what I'm going to do with either, but I'll figure something out. Had to do something to help bring the effective cost of shipping down, right?


----------



## ShaneA

I might be a bit worried about the idea of converting a used kitty litter box back into a blanket chest is a bit scary, I know the interior of the box would be "protected" but litter boxes are pretty fowl. Will be a nice upgrade over the standard offerings however.


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, I plan on putting a lot of coats of finish in there. Probably at least 5. The only real issue should be smell. So, a good scrub down and airing out for a few days should get rid of the smell. We'll see. I doubt blankets will be stored in there for the reasons you mentioned. It may just turn into a seat with storage for non-fabric items.


----------



## JADobson

JMart, the coat tree looks great. I've wanted one for a long time but my house doesn't really have an entrance that lends itself to a coat tree. Have to live with a closet. 
Anyway, good news on the lathe front. A fellow lumberjock (Mike82352) had a spare reeves drive pulley from his lathe and is sending it to me tomorrow. That saves me having to deal with international shipping from HF and the associated tariffs and whatnots. I looked at getting the part from King here in Canada and they wanted ~$100 CAD for it (HF wanted $12.99 USD - though with the exchange rates these days that might be the same thing). All in all I'm pretty happy to be getting the part from a lumberjock though. I'll be replacing the bearings in the lathe while it is apart so it will be a mostly new lathe by the time I'm done. Then me and that table leg get down to business.

I know this isn't furniture but its what I've been working on in my down time here. A jewelry box for my little sister. Just need to put some sort of feet on it and a chain to stop the lid and it will be all done. It has been a really stressful build as the spalted birch on the bottom is really soft and dents and chips if you look at it funny. The top on the other hand is really heavy and doesn't plane well at all. But it has been a good build.


----------



## JADobson

Sorry, can't figure out why these pictures won't orientate correctly or how to fix it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good to hear on the lathe James. Jewelry box looks very nice too.

Jmart- ya, I gotta say, I'd have a hard time spending more that more than 5 minutes on anything a cat is gonna crap in. Bless your heart.


----------



## jmartel

The way I look at it is, if it doesn't work out, it was good experience. And like I said, there's going to be an inner box with it's own lid. So, stuff isn't going to get out. Worst case scenario, I can probably at least save the top, save the panels, and strip off finish.


----------



## j1212t

I made a tv stand with double cat boxes under it. I honestly don't see a problem for storing other stuff later, IF the inner box is indeed tight. If they have a habit of trying to get stuff outside the box, I might drop in a few more coats, (we are talking a polurethane or similar film finish right?)

I love it when a functional piece of furniture looks good as well, so I am very much looking forward to your build!


----------



## j1212t

I have a question on shellac finishes. As far as I've gathered by now, it is the only one that is considered quite food safe, after all, they coat pills with the stuff. So the crib will be done with that as well. so a few questions: 
1. I keep reading that you should use the pumice powder to fill the grain before, is that really necessary with white oak?
2. I can only get "lemon" colour flakes locally, so what does that do with the regular white oak does it darken over time, lighten, or be pretty much the same?
3. How many coats to do the trick?


----------



## vikingcape

http://www.triedandtruewoodfinish.com/

Jake check this out. I can speak to the beauty of this finish when it is applied. It feels like silk. It makes the grain pop, and it is food safe

If you are set on Shellac, I am not an expert on that, and sorry for muddying the waters if you were


----------



## j1212t

Thanks for the info Kaleb, but I am at the far end of nowhere, so US dealers are not a viable option, which is why I am limited in my options. I did find a place for shellac though, which is why I am set on that. sorry.


----------



## vikingcape

Oh, sorry about that Jake. I'm sure shellac would be fine then. I should have looked where you were….


----------



## jmartel

Jake, for what it's worth, all finishes are food safe once fully cured. That being said, for a crib I'd also probably do something like shellac to be safe.

You could use pumice to fill the pores, or you could also use an oil as your first coat or two and wetsand the finish in. That will fill the pores. Once the solvents evaporate, they are typically completely food safe. You will just want about 2 weeks between the last coat of oil and your first coat of shellac.


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## j1212t

Ok. And how long should I allow the shellac to dry? Because as I was planning on finishing 4 weeks before the baby, with the 2 weeks of drying it is going to be a bit thin time wise.


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## jmartel

The shellac dries extremely quickly. Cure time should only be a couple days to a week. You can recoat shellac after about 1-2 hours, so it's pretty quick to finish the project.


----------



## JayT

Shellac will dry in minutes, literally. You have to work quickly, especially on larger pieces, but that is one feature of shellac that can be a positive or negative, depending on the situation. I like to give it a bit to cure before using, but you can put several coats on in a day, a couple days cure and it's ready to use.

Disclaimer: I don't know if the cure time is actually necessary or if what I do is too short, but haven't had any issues.

Edit: or +1 to jmart


----------



## Hammerthumb

> I have a question on shellac finishes. As far as I ve gathered by now, it is the only one that is considered quite food safe, after all, they coat pills with the stuff. So the crib will be done with that as well. so a few questions:
> 1. I keep reading that you should use the pumice powder to fill the grain before, is that really necessary with white oak?
> 2. I can only get "lemon" colour flakes locally, so what does that do with the regular white oak does it darken over time, lighten, or be pretty much the same?
> 3. How many coats to do the trick?
> 
> - Jake


Jake - almost any finish is food safe when cured. I would stay away from any stains and BLO products as they have metallic driers added.

Shellac does not need pumice filler, unless you are trying to do a French polish. Shellac will shrink and stretch over the wood and the grain, when not filled, would be very pronounced on oak. Some people like this look. Try a sample piece and see how it looks without filler.

Also, if you decide that filler needs to be incorporated, there are other fillers that can be used. I like Timbermate, but have been know to use hardwood flooring fillers. The pumice is used as a traditional filler for French polish as it becomes almost transparent when the finish is applied. I have also used plaster of paris for a filler on pieces that will receive stain or dye.

Whatever you use, make a few samples first.


----------



## jmartel

So, after looking at my coat rack for a few days, I decided that I prefer the no wipe-off method of Arm-R-Seal best. I followed the directions on the can for my coffee table and my end tables by wiping off the excess, but there is some streaking still, despite my best efforts. I wiped on thinner layers of it and didn't wipe off for the coat rack and I got a much better result it seems. I also rubbed in the first coat as well this time.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Jmart, it's tough to beat a sprayed finish imo. I've been using aerosol cans of minwax poly as a final coat for some time. At least on smaller projects.

For those who didn't see my mess elsewhere. It's a good idea to double check that the cap is screw on the danish oil before you shake it. Sigh. 









Thankfully my joinery bench has several coats of poly, so the cleanup wasn't terrible.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

And I finally got in the shop today. Check out this glued edge joint that separated on my cherry hutch. 









Well, the pic isn't that good, but the seam was definitely separated. Long story short, I'm convinced this was caused by my laptop. Yep my laptop has been in that spot for four years….while some decent heat generated below. That's the only spot that has separated. The joint was splined and everything. 
It's a fairly easy fix, just rip the seam, joint and glue again. I'll go ahead and refinish it with poly while I'm at it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ok, I'll blab about this too. I know I'm always talking about how much I love my planes, but there are instances where they are not the best tool for the job. Stripping and refinishing this top is a good example. I messed with planing it a bit….then just busted out the ROS (random orbital sander). 









Couple of strikes against planing this by hand:
- The grain alternates each board. I built this before my hand tool days- before I gave a rip about grain direction. 
- It's not really flat. A little concaved actually. Makes it tough to run a smoother across. I'm sure it was this way when I built it, and I'd loose way too much thickness to flatten it now.

Some might be scratching their head. Not flat…for a hutch top? Guess what, hutch tops, table tops don't have to dead flat, They flatten out just fine when mounted to flat square aprons or casework;-)


----------



## Iguana

Card scrapers are great for taking the bulk of a finish off. Need to follow with sanding, but mostly eliminates the gummed up sandpaper.

And yeah, heat will do bad things to PVA. Laptop was definitely the source of the problem. Love the color of the cherry, though.


----------



## Sprung

It's been a long while since I've posted in this thread, but I've been following along, learning and admiring the strong work being done here. Well done ladies and gentlemen!

Do have a question. Right now I'm in the planning stages of a build. I'm going to be building a standing desk for my work office so I can regain lost bookshelf space that is currently doing that duty - and get my books back onto the shelves instead of stacked up on the floor. I will be using a pre-built adjustable base so that it can be used either standing or sitting down - or so that my wife can adjust it for her height if she wants to use my computer. (My work office is in our house, so my computer often sees personal use too.)

I'm looking at making the top from some walnut I've got on hand. I'd love to do it in 8/4 walnut, but I don't have anywhere near enough - unless I can find someone who has some for sale for a reasonable price in southwest Minnesota.

So what I'm looking at doing is making the top from 4/4, with supports underneath (properly attached to allow for seasonal wood movement) and edging it out with 8/4 material.

If you were edging 4/4 material with 8/4 material to give it a thicker look, how would you attach it? More specifically - how would you attach it at the ends to best allow for wood movement since the 8/4 would be like a frame around the top?

I'd love to just do the top in solid 8/4 w/ breadboard ends if I could get enough stock at a reasonable price, but would also have no problem using the couple 12" wide 4/4 boards I've got - they've got some inclusions, nice figure, would provide an opportunity to most likely do an epoxy fill in a place or two and maybe some butterflies - it would be a good learning experience for me filled with many new things.


----------



## CL810

Sprung, is veneering 3/4 mdf to eliminate movement a possibility?


----------



## Sprung

CL810 - veneering would be a possibility, so long as I would be able to do so without having to go out and get a vacuum bag or anything like that. I don't know anything about veneering - can a surface the size of a desktop be done easily and well without a vacuum bag? (I know where I can get some nice sapele veneer for a bargain price right now if I wanted to veneer and change species.)


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## BigRedKnothead

Sprung. I believe you could use thicker stock around the perimeter of a table to get a substantial look. This is what I did recently on the reclaimed wood table I posted. 


















In my case the 2" stuff is edge glued with a spline to the 4" stuff(with a spline), as the last step. I do believe you need to stabilize it with a breadboard, as I did. Dovetails are optional. They are not glued…to allow for wood movement. Lemme know if that doesnt' make sense.


----------



## Sprung

Red - that makes sense and looks exactly like the way I should go. I was thinking either way that I needed a breadboard for solid wood (another new thing!) and I like how you approached it there. Thank you! (I'm a visual learner and your pics helped immensely.)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Cool Matt. I've got a few more pics of that if you need. The dovetail looks sweet, but could could get by with a regular breadboard tongue. You'd just need to dowel it and make the hole in the tongue elongated for wood movement.


----------



## DanKrager

I don't know how you are equipped for tools, but a well fitted French dovetail into the bread board would require only one pin in the middle, maybe hidden from underneath. ??? Just a thought. 









DanK


----------



## CL810

French dovetail = sliding DT?


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## BigRedKnothead

> Card scrapers are great for taking the bulk of a finish off. Need to follow with sanding, but mostly eliminates the gummed up sandpaper.
> 
> And yeah, heat will do bad things to PVA. Laptop was definitely the source of the problem. Love the color of the cherry, though.
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Great minds and all that Mark. I did use a card scraper til my thumbs burned;-) The bummer about sanding that top down is that the cherry will lighten up and not match the hutch. Oh well, in a year it should look about the same.


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## DanKrager

Yes. It took two guys and a BIG clamp to drive these on, but there were NO gaps.

FYI, this table was made to come apart into five pieces with no tools. It supported 500 lbs in the middle with 1/16" sag. The legs are two inches thick and the top 5/4. I'd love to see this beast now, 40+ years later. 
DanK


----------



## Sprung

A French/sliding dovetail would be awesome - and something I hope to accomplish on a project someday. Unfortunately I lack the tooling at this time to accomplish something like that.

Now I've just got to wait to get started on my desk top until I have the money set aside to order the base and - even bigger than that - the shop is warm enough to work in again.

Thanks for the help, gentlemen!


----------



## August

My chair is almost done
Any advice for arm rest?


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## BigRedKnothead

Use a fastener to attach the arm to the back (from the side.) Use a corbel if needed for support. Like this:


----------



## August

Thanks Red
You have something simple?
That's looks hard to make.
I'm really loving this wood working stuff
I did not riialize that it will look half decent now I wish I use some hard wood.
Was showing my wife some of your project.
And now I'm allowed to spend more time in the shop.
Thanks man
Will try to employ that system of yours


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## BigRedKnothead

Ahh, a corbel is pretty easy to make. Just a small board with a curve cut in it. You don't even have to curve it if you want, do an angle. If your using screws for joinery, just mount it that way.

Glad I could get you some more shop time


----------



## summerfi

> Any advice for arm rest?
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


Include a cup holder for the beverage of your choice. ;-)


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## August

Thanks Bob
Ok I finish milling a arm rest 
And I hit it clamp for now
And red I can see where I can use your design to support the arm rest
Any advice on the back end? Should I taper it or round it off?


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## BigRedKnothead

I would do something like an adirondack arm. Then you can screw it into the back.


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## Mean_Dean

August, since your chair seems to be angular, I'd recommend tapering, rather than rounding, the backs of the arms. You could then attach them to the seat back with screws as Big Red One suggests, or your could add a corbel at the back (and front, too!) to add support.

The choice is yours-that's the nice thing about building your own furniture! You get exactly what you want!


----------



## jmartel

You could use a dowel instead of a screw to attach to the back.


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## jmartel

Got a bunch of walnut planed down for the catbox. Thinking the top will be made out of the middle piece, and some of either piece next to it. Middle piece has some nice crotch feathering on the far side of it. 2 pieces on each end both have more vertical grain so those should be the rails/stiles.










Managed to clog up my D735's chip blower halfway through. First time I've done that before. Usually it's clogged in the flex line after the chip blower.

I'll mark out the parts, rough cut them, and then send through the planer for final thicknessing. These are about 0.85"-0.95" right now. Just planed enough to get both sides clean.


----------



## August

Thanks red ok I tried to copy your design but it has no curve but good enough for now
I'm kinda happy this is my first real project beside other stuff 
Thanks for all the advice and encouraging words!!!

Thanks dean
It's hard to do something when you don't know what your doing for my standpoint.

Thanks Jeff
I'll have to make the actual support now for the arm rest


----------



## DanKrager

More taper, Augie, more taper. Come towards the front about 4 more inches maybe???

This is gonna be a delightful chair.

Suggestion for the back top. Put a top across the back side supports and put a row of holes for whiskey bottles. A little shelf underneath…don't have to get up to fetch the bottle!

DanK


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## Buckethead

Jmart that's gonna be the finest cat box in all the land. Some pretty pieces of walnut there.


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## jmartel

It'll be one of the nicest things ever made to hold poop.


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## August

your a good man DanK
ok i will not lie i dont understand the taper so please help me please

and dan i like the wiskey rack idea


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## RPhillips

> It ll be one of the nicest things ever made to hold poop.
> 
> - jmartel


First to say, Jmart that's sure to be one ********************ty box! lol


----------



## Waldo88

I'm making some good headway on a shoe storage bench I designed for our mud room.

Bench is made from laminted strips of Baltic birch plywood reclaimed from shipping crates. I have the top and storage cabinet glued up. It is going to have a walnut strip attached to each side of the bench lamination after assembly (to get the miter dead on). Strips are aligned with dowels that run all the way through the top. Floating cabinet is going to be painted and then faced with a maple frame from a reclaimed gym floor.

Did the first dry fit yesterday:










Planed the benchtop today. Almost done with both sides. Whew that is a lot of work.


----------



## CL810

Here's another furniture maker, Thomas Hucker, worthy of being added to the list.

http://www.thomashuckerstudio.com/html/home.html


----------



## August

waldo those shavings looks nice almost like blondes


----------



## DanKrager

Are those ends staggered for finger joints? 
DanK


----------



## Waldo88

> Are those ends staggered for finger joints?
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Yes. The sides are going to be the same construction as the top, attached via finger joints. The outer walnut strips will use a miter joint.

I needed to use the dowels so that the strips are aligned precisely for the finger joints to be tight.

Planing the bench is quite a bit of work. The strips were cut on my bandsaw (don't have a tablesaw) so it was a bit rough to begin with, and that baltic birch is hard as a rock. Pushing the #6 through it is a heck of a workout. Despite seeming a bit slim, that top has zero flex with my weight on it.


----------



## jmartel

I think I finally settled on a design for the catbox/storage bench last night. Should be able to start rough cutting tonight or tomorrow. I couldn't decide on what sort of treatment I wanted on the ends so that it didn't look weird with a random 7"x7" hole.


----------



## Hammerthumb

> It ll be one of the nicest things ever made to hold poop.
> 
> - jmartel


This made my wife laugh!


----------



## vikingcape

Jmartel. Can you incorporate a litter pad of some sort so when the little fella comes out from doing his business it tracks on there, and not through the house. That's what I did for my furball and it worked great

Something like this

http://www.petsmart.com/supplies-training/mats-liners/petmate-litter-catcher-mat-zid36-26123/cat-36-catid-200097?var_id=36-26123&_t=pfm%3Dsearch


----------



## jmartel

We've got a rubber mat that lays in front that takes care of it. Similar to that.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> your a good man DanK
> ok i will not lie i dont understand the taper so please help me please
> 
> and dan i like the wiskey rack idea
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


August, taper is just when something thins down. Like this table has tapered legs:


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Lookin good Waldo. Excellent use of resources.

Thanks Clayton. Got Thomas Shucker Added.

The repaired and refinished top to my cherry hutch in back in commission. A close look at the joints and details affirm I have come a long ways in this craft. I was over my head when I built this. 
Nevertheless, it's a solid piece of furniture and serves us well. When I remodel our kitchen one day we won't need it anymore. I'll probably pass it on to a younger couple in the family.


----------



## August

Thanks Red
Yeah you know I do t know anything yet trying to learn ok cool
I haven't sone ebay thing yet 
I know is a shop chair
But I would like to make it look good


----------



## vikingcape

Progress


----------



## DanKrager

I PM'd Auggie on the taper thing as soon as he posted the question. Hope it made sense.
DanK


----------



## jmartel

Ok. I was debating whether or not I should put this up before building, but here goes.










Any critiques on the design?


----------



## jmartel

And colorized/textured


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^El temple de poo-poo. Lawl.

Kaleb. Your a stud. That is all.


----------



## jmartel

It's a non-porcelain throne.


----------



## Hammerthumb

> ^El temple de poo-poo. Lawl.
> 
> Kaleb. Your a stud. That is all.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Casa de caca!

Red - the hutch came out just great. Can't tell from the picture any color difference.

Kaleb - beautiful work! Can't wait to see it finished.

Jmart - just showed my cat your design. He approves.


----------



## jmartel

Good to hear, Paul.

Just working out construction details and cutlists tonight, and I may go mark up the boards with some chalk. Hopefully tomorrow I'll start cutting and jointing.


----------



## j1212t

Sweet looking pooper Jmart!

Got the rails of the baby crib dry-assembled yesterday.









Everything for the crib is Oak, except the end pieces on each rail, threw in some maple (I think) for accent and good measure.

After the dry assembly I got one of the pair all sanded up and marked yesterday. Only need to drill some dowel holes into the maple pieces.










13 vertical pieces per rail, 22 mortices and 4 dowel joints. This is going to be a bear to glue up, Probably will glue up the bottom ones tight and the upper rails I'll just throw in a dab of glue for each rail, because otherwise the glue will be long dry before I get to assembly.

My basement workshop is something like 50 degrees, so that will give me a few additional precious minutes for the glue up. Hopefully I'll be able to assemble the bed frame by the end of this week, so I am pretty excited.


----------



## jmartel

Jake. You can always use Old Brown Glue/liquid hide glue or Epoxy to give you more working time. Titebond III also has a longer working time as well.

I laid out all the parts last night only to realize my mistake in the design. The long side of the box has the vertical stiles going from the bottom to the top. The short side has the lower and upper rails going to the edge. Have to fix a few layouts and then should be ready to cut.


----------



## DanKrager

Good catch, JMart. Of course, better now than later…less toilet paper involved.

How many of us looked that glaring thing right in the eye and didn't say anything? Even after you mentioned it I had to look twice. DOH! See how dependable we are? 

DanK


----------



## jmartel

At least I didn't cut wood yet. That's all I care about. I hate wasting Walnut.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Didn't catch that either. Was looking on my phone. $%&* screen is too small, or maybe I need new eyes!


----------



## RPhillips

> Didn t catch that either. Was looking on my phone. $%&* screen is too small, or maybe I need new eyes!
> 
> - Hammerthumb


Or an Samsung Galaxy Note 4… awesome screen


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^That's not a phone…...it's a Phablet


----------



## bondogaposis

This isn't fine furniture by any means, but is serves a purpose in my shop. I needed a a lathe stand with storage. My old one just wasn't cutting it. I did this build with particle board, MDF and poplar. Viewer discretion advised if these materials offend you. I don't mind buying expensive hardwoods for furniture but I am loath to do it for shop furniture. I posted some more pictures in the projects section.


----------



## DanKrager

Bondo, that's a piece of shop furniture. Heavy!

DanK


----------



## bondogaposis

Yeah, I wanted heavy, that is one reason for the choice of particle board, plus it has natural vibration dampening qualities. The steel stand that it replaced transmitted a lot of vibration.


----------



## b2rtch

Bondo,It is beautiful!


----------



## ToddJB

I love it, Bondo. Great job. Nice lathe, too.


----------



## RPhillips

Nice job Bondo.


----------



## jmartel

Veneer arrived a day earlier than expected. This will be the panels. AA grade curly walnut.










The curl on this is outstanding. I got 2 sheets of them for a total of about 17 square feet. I believe they are around 11 or 12" wide.

I also got 4 pieces of fiddleback sycamore to replace the 2 pieces I used up last fall



















And then I saw this on sale and had to buy it. Cherry burl.










To give an idea of size, here it is next to one of my end tables. It's something 3'x3'. Of course I found out afterwords that it made my shipping cost skyrocket. Oh well, live and learn.










The walnut and sycamore are safe in the storage rack above the bench.


----------



## vikingcape

Beautiful wood there Jmartel. That's going to be amazing looking. That cherry burl is an eyefull


----------



## jmartel

I bought the cherry burl because I figured it would make a good background for an old world style ocean map. Similar to Shipwright's boxes here:
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/98992

Obviously, with this burl I don't have the distinct difference that would be easily viewed as land, so I will have to use another piece of veneer for that. But, that's a future decorative project so it will be done off and on as time allows. I'll probably cut the burl into 2 or 3 pieces and use one for the map as a wall hanging.


----------



## j1212t

Nice looking stuff Jmartel and my hat is off to anyone who does marquetry, out of all the things i want to learn and do in woodworking, marquentry will never be one of those things. I don't have anywhere near enough patience.

I got the rails all glued up, obviously I started one glue up without making the mounting holes in the maple and since they had to be recessed from the side where I had the slats I had to take it apart just after I got the diagonals to match up. Needless to say there was a heck of a lot cussing and cursing a few days ago in my shop…

Anyhow, got the maple ends fitted and glued yesterday as well. 









Tonight I fill fit the bed for the first time, very exciting. Need to mark the inset nuts, drill them and then try to put it all together. Beyond excited to be that far into it. Then I only have the top rail, drawer and one low side to make and I'll be ready for finishing.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^What isn't special about building a bed for your child? A great feeling.

Okay, I've procrastinated long enough. I need to give my woodworking gig a name….and possibly a website. So far I like "Westfall Woodcraft" or "Loess Hills Woodcraft".

I like the idea of putting your name on something you stand behind, but "Loess Hills" has a certain ring to it, and we do live in a pretty area. I appreciate any other ideas and input.


----------



## ToddJB

What about just "Woodcraft"?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Isn't that the name of the biggest woodworking retailer in our country? Lawl.


----------



## ToddJB

Nothing wrong with riding their wave.


----------



## terryR

Holy veneer, Jmart! What a stash! Where do you buy?

Red, when we started a small business here, we picked Maxwell Mountain Trading Post…love the name of where we live in the title.


----------



## byerbyer

I've kicked around giving my woodworking gig a name as well, BRK. I work for a local cabinet shop, but we produce commercial cabinets (plastic laminate on particle board) in house and are a dealer for several lines of face framed cabinets. It's a far cry from what I consider woodworking. I'm closer to a computer programmer most days than a cabinet maker. I'd like to give my gig a name just to separate it from our cabinet shop. 
I like the sound of "Loess Hills." I'd like to tie my local geography into a future name as well. I've kicked around "Wild West Woodwork" or "Hi Plains Woodworking" (or maybe Planes if I'm feeling punny) if I ever get really serious about it…


----------



## jmartel

> Nice looking stuff Jmartel and my hat is off to anyone who does marquetry, out of all the things i want to learn and do in woodworking, marquentry will never be one of those things. I don t have anywhere near enough patience.
> - Jake


It definitely causes a lot of grief. Especially when doing it my way with an exacto knife and not a Chevalet. I need to build one but I lack time and space.



> Okay, I ve procrastinated long enough. I need to give my woodworking gig a name….and possibly a website. So far I like "Westfall Woodcraft" or "Loess Hills Woodcraft".
> 
> I like the idea of putting your name on something you stand behind, but "Loess Hills" has a certain ring to it, and we do live in a pretty area. I appreciate any other ideas and input.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I think having your name in it makes it seem like more of a single craftsman run shop than say just a small production shop that has local ties.


----------



## ToddJB

The only issue with naming it after where you live is if you move.


----------



## terryR

^yep.
moving…


----------



## ToddJB

Ha. That was indeed aimed at you, Terry.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, we have no intentions of moving, but ya never know.

Funny, everyone on facebook voted for one with my name in it. I tossed out "Big Red Pimp Daddy Woodworks"....but it didn't get any votes.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Ya get my vote on that one Red!


----------



## ToddJB

Are you sold on the "Woodcraft" part? I think I like "Westfall Woodworks" or just "Westfall, purveyor of fine wooworkings"

By the way, you might know this but www.westfall.com is custom office furniture.


----------



## summerfi

How about Red's Towing & Woodworks.


----------



## jmartel

I've given some thought to eventually opening up a shop, but not until I finish all the furniture I want to make for our house. So, it'll be another few years. I need to get better at woodworking anyway for me to be able to charge the prices that would make it worthwhile.


----------



## CL810

Red, use your name, Westfall Woodcraft. People probably don't care where your shop is but they care a lot about *who* makes a piece of furniture for them. Plus it personalizes your business right off the start. "You need a dining table? You should to talk to my guy, Dan Westfall. He built our entertainment center."


----------



## jmartel

> Holy veneer, Jmart! What a stash! Where do you buy?
> 
> - terryR


Just saw this, Terry. I buy it from www.certainlywood.com . They have really good selection and are pretty affordable for the most part. You have to call them up to order, and it's sort of like McMaster where you won't know exactly how much it will cost you until they charge you. Both due to unknown shipping cost and because they measure each piece for square footage to charge off of. Each flitch has different sizes in it, so they will generally ask if you have a preference on size. They are good about not caring if you only buy a bunch of veneer, but only 1 piece of each kind (like I usually do), or if you want to buy a whole crap ton of the same flitch.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

How about "Very Good Woodworking." lawl. 








-

Thanks for all the input guys. Todd, I do like "woodcraft" better than "woodworks", and I can't really say why.

I better not announce the decision til I've secured the web address;-)


----------



## Mean_Dean

My 2 pennies worth, Big Red One:

I, too, think the name should be personal to you, and not a location. "Mill Valley Woodworks" ties you to a specific location permanently. If you ever move, or your kids inherit the business, and decide to move, the name recognition you've built up will disappear, and you'll have to start from scratch.

I like Woodcraft, but I like Woodworks better. Maybe it's because I've always been fond of the Skunkworks and all the fine flying machines they designed and flew. If you've ever had an SR-71 fly by nice and slow, and then select Zone 5 right in front of you, and roar off at a steep incline, just like a fighter, with the ground shaking underneath you, you'll know what I'm talking about! It's an amazing thing to actually feel the power of that machine throughout you body.

So, to me, Woodworks imparts the impression of designing and building impressive furniture.

As to the actual name itself, shorter is better, I believe. Contrast "Big Billy-Joe-Jim-Bob's Root'n Toot'n Corncob Furniture Factory" with the simple elegance of "The Joinery."

Anyway, I guess you got 2 nickels worth with this post, didn't ya?! Looking forward to seeing what you pick!


----------



## theoldfart

OK Dean, you saw the Blackbird fly? YOU DOG. I've seen 117's, B1B's, MIG's even U2's but never an SR71.

Red, I'm with the "use you name" group. I have an accounting biz called CostaCounting. It's portable, can go anywhere and it has my name and reputation. It says something when it has your name.


----------



## summerfi

In addition to geographic or personal names, another option might be more generic descriptors. Something like "New Traditions Woodcraft", "Heirloom Craftworks" or the like.


----------



## DanKrager

"Knothead's Fun Furniture"...

"my fun, your furniture"

?? 
DanK


----------



## jmartel

"Gingercraft. Furniture so good it'll steal your soul."


----------



## byerbyer

Jmart wins. Everyone else is playing for second now.


----------



## Mean_Dean

> OK Dean, you saw the Blackbird fly? YOU DOG. I ve seen 117 s, B1B s, MIG s even U2 s but never an SR71.
> 
> - theoldfart


I got to see this monster fly at the Abbotsford International Airshow, in Abbotsford, B.C., back in 1986. The show is always the 2nd weekend of August every year, and in '86, it was going on in conjunction with Expo '86 over in Vancouver, B.C.

The now departed Bob Singleton (airshow announcer) mentioned that we had a surprise visitor inbound, and that it was over Vancouver, "terrorizing" the Expo! I guess it made a low pass, in full AB!

It's inbound pass, from the South, was also full AB, and was a hell of a way to make an entrance!

I found a video on Youtube of that flight demonstration that you might enjoy: Abbotsford '86


----------



## jmartel

> I got to see this monster fly at the Abbotsford International Airshow, in Abbotsford, B.C., back in 1986. The show is always the 2nd weekend of August every year, and in 86, it was going on in conjunction with Expo 86 over in Vancouver, B.C.
> 
> The now departed Bob Singleton (airshow announcer) mentioned that we had a surprise visitor inbound, and that it was over Vancouver, "terrorizing" the Expo! I guess it made a low pass, in full AB!
> 
> It s inbound pass, from the South, was also full AB, and was a hell of a way to make an entrance!
> 
> I found a video on Youtube of that flight demonstration that you might enjoy: Abbotsford 86
> 
> - Mean_Dean


Not quite as cool as the real thing, but pretty close. Have you seen this?






Ignore the music in the beginning.


----------



## carguy460

Red - Stopping by to chime in and push for "Loess Hills" in the name…mostly because I managed the Loess Hills Wind Farm in NW Missouri, so I'm a bit partial to the name. At any rate, let us know what you decide on and good luck!


----------



## Airframer

I think it should inspire a feeling of new beginnings.. how 'bout.. Big Reds Morning Woodcraft ..


----------



## CL810

I want to thank everyone that helped out with my questions during this build.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Thanks, Jmartel!

Most of the air shows feature RC planes, but they always seem to be propeller-driven. I can't recall seeing a jet-powered RC plane, so thank you very much! I'd love to see one of those in real life someday-but nothing could compare to seeing the real thing…......!


----------



## Mean_Dean

Looks great, CL810! I'll be sure to post on your project page!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice! ^


----------



## DanKrager

I can't remember nor find which forum someone was asking about air dried vs kiln dried lumber. I've got a waste pile that I know the history. These walnut sticks and boards were carefully stacked and stickered in an unheated shed more than 10 years ago. When I saw the pile it looked tidy and the pieces straight, but they were under about a ton of lumber. Brought them home and stacked them in the unheated shop two miles away and things started to happen. When they got to this stage, I put them outside.








Glad this happened now instead of after they're in some heirloom someplace. They're not firewood yet, but the legs they might be found in will be shorter…
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Yikes, you've had that much trouble with air-dried lumber ehh? I've bought air dried….but only after it was dry.


----------



## DanKrager

10 years, should a been dry. It is dry, but just cantankerous and full of stress. The tree grew that way. It was held straight against its will, which happens when lumber is in big piles. This didn't show up for almost a year.
DanK


----------



## terryR

That's a sad sight to behold, Dan. Lots of short projects in that pile, though…

Sorry, but I need N00B advice on preventing tearout on birch ply. Am attempting wooden gears, but am experiencing horrid tearout when drilling or cutting at the bandsaw. Have tried tape on the underside. Anything better? Another piece of ply?

Thanks!


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, make a wood sandwich. Sacrificial pieces on top of and underneath your work.


----------



## DanKrager

Terry, regular birch ply would not be my choice for gears. Baltic birch is far superior IMHO. But you work with what you have. 
I'll share something that has worked for me in the past. Eventually you will be putting a finish on these parts most likely, and you might as well do it first as later. Put two coats of a hard finish like varnish or shellac (not a poly) or even lacquer on each side of the plywood before cutting. Makes a world of difference on tear out and will help even if you sandwich the stuff. Sheila Landry offers putting shipping tape on the surfaces and making sure it is well adhered. SA shelf paper works as well as any taping method. But the finish enhances the weak glue found in most plywoods today. You'll top coat the finish and add it to the cut edges when you're done, nothing lost.
DanK


----------



## terryR

Thanks, guys. 
Will try both…

Dan, Thanks for suggesting a better material…I didn't even think to ask that one! Will search for baltic birch, maybe some phenolic?


----------



## jmartel

I'm not sure Phenolic would be any better. Just more expensive.


----------



## johnstoneb

Terry
Baltic birch is the way to go. Regular birch plywood has too many voids and if it is BORG 1/4" it needs more plys.
I usually put tape on the back side to reduce the tearout. 1 or 2 coats of lacquer or shellac would probably work also. I haven't used it because I don't finish the gears. I think if you don't put finish on the wear surface of the gear you would probably be good. I think even with finish taping the backside woudl probably reinforce even more.
A scroll saw seems to reduce the tear out also. I used a band saw on my first clock and really wasn't happy with the results. The scrollsaw without tape was better than the bandsaw ever was.


----------



## terryR

yep, my 3/4" birch ply is full of voids, too. just applied some shellac to an extra piece, and will try it tomorrow.

trying to clean out between the teeth is just madness with the ply. more tearout.  my scrollsaw is a bit too aggressive, but will try the power scrollsaw as well tomorrow since it has finer blades. Thanks for all advice, gang. Got an old plastic cutting board next…LOL.


----------



## j1212t

Only thing left to do is the drawer and bed bottom. Then sand and finish.


----------



## Mean_Dean

She's look'n good, Jake!


----------



## Mean_Dean

Hey Guys-quick question for you:

I just finished a couple of picture frames. They're walnut, which I like to hit with 2 coats of Danish oil to bring out the beauty of the wood. I thought, that since they're just picture frames, they don't need wiping varnish, so I'd topcoat them with clear shellac.

So now for the question: How long should I wait to apply the shellac? I understand it's 3 days if using varnish, but that it's less time with shellac.

Thanks!


----------



## WhoMe

Red, how about

Red Knotheads fine furniture works.
"I put a little red in all my work" 
)


----------



## jmartel

Looking very nice there Jake.

Dean,

It was always my understanding that oils needed at least a week before a topcoat. Preferably 2.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jake- lovin the progress.

Dean- Maybe test on a small area, but I have used dewaxed shellac (zinnser sealcoat) over watco danish oil in as little as 24 hours with no problems. I know some folks seal danish oil with shellac as a way of getting around that 72 hour wait. Essentially sealing the danish oil for a topcoat.

Other news…. jealousy isn't really in my nature, but I had a twinge when I saw that a friend of mine started school here today:








Had I not settled down with a wife and kiddos, I'd probably be chasing the same dream. It'll be fun to watch his journey.


----------



## Hammerthumb

> Hey Guys-quick question for you:
> 
> I just finished a couple of picture frames. They re walnut, which I like to hit with 2 coats of Danish oil to bring out the beauty of the wood. I thought, that since they re just picture frames, they don t need wiping varnish, so I d topcoat them with clear shellac.
> 
> So now for the question: How long should I wait to apply the shellac? I understand it s 3 days if using varnish, but that it s less time with shellac.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> - Mean_Dean


I have sealed with de-waxed shellac within a couple of hours with no ill effects. As long as when you wipe with a clean rag and get no residue from the Danish oil, it should be fine.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Talk about timing…....!

Just picked up the 11/2014 issue of Popular Woodworking, and on page 9, a reader asks this very question. He was asking about shellac over BLO/mineral spirits, and how long to wait. I didn't know this, but apparently shellac is breathable, and allows oxygen to pass. So, the initial finish will continue to cure even with the shellac over the top of it.

So based on that, and all your advice, I think I'll just wait 24 hours, and make sure the Danish oil is dry to the touch, and go ahead.


----------



## JADobson

Good news out of my shop. Lathe is fixed and my table is back on track.

I found a source for clear straight pine that was a lot better than the big box store but it is only 1 3/8" thick rather than the normal 1 1/2". Need an extra piece to get to 6" thick. Didn't realize till I was about to turn last night. Had to glue on another piece and had to wait till today to start turning.


----------



## Iguana

Started a dining room table today. The top is 96" x 42", no center cut. Client wants 12" extensions hidden in each end.

Going to look something like:









Love me some walnut, but finding 8' clear sections in the stock I can get here is a challenge.


----------



## Buckethead

Sexy beast there, Mark. You get the fun stuff!


----------



## Mean_Dean

Looks great, Mark!

Just curious-how are you keeping the legs from racking with no stretcher?


----------



## Iguana

Dean, that's a very good question 

I will be fabbing some steel pieces to gusset the leg-to-table connection. Not entirely sure what that looks like yet.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Hey, does anyone know how to search efficiently with the search function on this site?

I'm searching for a G&G clock that I saw posted here in the last few months. It's the featured project in last month's issue of Wood magazine. When I search, I get mainly off-site ads, and then the projects come up in random order, without the ability to organize the search.

If any of you whiz kids can help, that'd be great!


----------



## jmartel

When I search for projects, I usually add the words "tagged" to the end of the search term. Then it brings up as a result "Projects tagged with " and then I look through that. Doesn't always work, however.

Any of these?

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/47616
http://lumberjocks.com/bones/blog/42197
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/94767
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/93867


----------



## Mean_Dean

Jmartel,

Thanks for the help, but those aren't the one. Here's a photo of it from the Wood site:










For some reason, only half of the photo is showing up, but at least you can see which clock I'm talking about.


----------



## CFrye

Dean, I Google the project and add Lumberjocks and search images. For example 
Greene and Greene clock Lumberjocks

Kinda sad. LJ used to have a feature where you could narrow your search to project or blog or whatever. Haven't been able to do that for a while.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Ok, now this is really strange!

I somehow stumbled across a "Woodworking projects tagged with 'clock'" search result. Have no idea how I managed this, but this type of search result is exactly the type I was looking for!

Here it is


----------



## jmartel

Dean,

If you put "Clock tagged" without the quotes in the search bar, then you'll get that "Woodworking projects tagged with 'clock'" result up first like I said in my previous post. Just replace clock with whatever you want in the future and it works.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Looks like a very interesting build Mark. I'm still working with my Aunt and Uncle concerning the design of their dining set. I'm pushing for some slide-out breadboard leaves…..like this I found on the webz:


























How you doing yours Mark?


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> Dean,
> 
> If you put "Clock tagged" without the quotes in the search bar, then you ll get that "Woodworking projects tagged with clock " result up first like I said in my previous post. Just replace clock with whatever you want in the future and it works.
> 
> - jmartel


What % of projects are tagged when posted on this site? Not very many ;-(


----------



## Mean_Dean

Topomax,

For this very reason, I tag all of my posted projects….......!

I've looked all the way back to December of 2013 using the tagged search, and haven't found the clock. I suspect that it wasn't tagged as a clock project, and that's why I can't find it using the search.

So, I'm just going to go through the project pages, page by page, to locate it. I'm curious what challenges, if any, came up for him, and to know who he is in case I have any questions.


----------



## Iguana

Red, that has been the most challenging part of designing this project. The client wants something very sleek and modern, which really constrains the options. And she doesn't want removable extensions. I've settled on having the lower half of the end slide out, with a butterfly leaf tucked inside. Pull the end out, open the leaf and then latch to hold it in place.

Although the client wants all solid wood construction, I'm probably going to have to make the leafs with plywood and shop-made veneer for stability. In order to hide the leafs in the tiny apron, they will need to be pretty thin. Oh, and the grain has to run in line with the rest of the top.

I need to finish up the design of the mechanism in SketchUp pretty quickly, be starting on that part next week.


----------



## SASmith

Mean_Dean have you seen this page?

I could not find the clock on lumberjocks either.

Here is how I search images on lumberjocks.]

Edited to add:
Looks like these may be the plans.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Scott,

Thanks for the page of the clock at UVA. Interesting to see the bids…....! (It doesn't seem to be getting much love)

I don't know how image searches work out on the Web, but I'm assuming that you search for the exact image. I'm also assuming that the project poster used his own photos of the clock when posting, so that Google wouldn't find it. Unless there is some sort of "facial recognition" algorithms that I haven't heard about, that would find different images of the same clock.

As it turns out, I already have the plans. I just wanted to see the project he posted, because he has actual experience building it, and may have insights into the build that aren't in the magazine. Plus I can ask questions if need be.

Anyway, this whole search may be becoming more work than it's worth!


----------



## SASmith

I did use the exact image to find the UVA page.
The second link in my post above is the best way I have found to search lumberjocks.


----------



## JADobson

Hey Red, If you do end up building your table like that would you mind taking a few photos and sending them my way? I'm hoping to do something similar and could probably use all the help I can get.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Hey Red, If you do end up building your table like that would you mind taking a few photos and sending them my way? I m hoping to do something similar and could probably use all the help I can get.
> 
> - JADobson


Oh I'm sure I'll blab and post a bunch about it during the build. I've got most the lumber, just waiting on them to decide on a design.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> Topomax,
> 
> For this very reason, I tag all of my posted projects….......!
> 
> - Mean_Dean


I do too, not that anyone would want to search for wannabe projects ;-)

That search Scott uses will find it if you see the picture. When you click the image it will give you the option of going to the project page. I use that search occasionally too.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

LJRay brought to my attention that the Woodworking In American conference is going to be in KC this year- only a couple hours away for me. Man, I'd really like to attend at least part of it. I've already got plans to attend Handworks in May. Could be a big year for Woodworking conferences in my world. Maybe I can finally get plugged into the woodworkers social pipeline….lawl.

Also related, I saw that one of my woodworking heros, David Barron, is making the trip across the big pond to attend Handworks. Stoked.

CL810- fyi, if you don't make it, I'm gonna be forced to post pictures of Barron and I sipping Newcastles while grillin shrimp on the barbie.


----------



## CL810

Red it would be cool to hang with Barron.


----------



## jmartel

Well I pulled the bandsaw out tonight and cut all the pieces for the catbox.










Rough cut.

The stock wasn't really straight enough for me to trust just throwing it through the tablesaw, so I ripped on the bandsaw, cut to length by hand, and then started the task of jointing one edge on every piece by hand. Roughed it in straight with the #5 1/4, and then finished up with the #6.










2/3rds of the way done tonight. Lots of shavings everywhere.


----------



## JayT

> LJRay brought to my attention that the Woodworking In American conference is going to be in KC this year- only a couple hours away for me. Man, I d really like to attend at least part of it. I ve already got plans to attend Handworks in May. Could be a big year for Woodworking conferences in my world. Maybe I can finally get plugged into the woodworkers social pipeline….lawl.
> 
> Also related, I saw that one of my woodworking heros, David Barron, is making the trip across the big pond to attend Handworks. Stoked.
> 
> CL810- fyi, if you don t make it, I m gonna be forced to post pictures of Barron and I sipping Newcastles while grillin shrimp on the barbie.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I'm going to have to mark the calendar for WWIA. Only three hours away is too close to pass up. Doesn't look like Handwerks will be in the cards for this year. Enjoy meeting Barron, Red, but try not to get arrested for stalking.


----------



## Iguana

I'll be at Handworks, too. Wife thinks we're heading to Omaha to visit the kids and then making a side trip. She doesn't realize that it's really the other way around


----------



## b2rtch

" projects are tagged" what does this mean, I have been a member for many years but I do not know this


----------



## Mosquito

Bert, it's this section when posting a project.


----------



## JayT

Bert, when someone posts a project, there is a box below the main text that is labelled Tags/Keywords. Putting relevant terms in that box allows it to be easier to find using a search. You can actually search for all projects containing a specific tag. The searches are much faster and more accurate using tags than when the search engine has to look through titles and text to find keywords.

The tags show up in the project post in their own box on the left side of the screen. Clicking on any of those tags will bring up other projects that have the same tag. Makes it very easy to find similar projects if everyone would use it. Unfortunately, a lot of people skip that section when posting a project. It's almost as bad when someone includes too many tags that aren't relevant.


----------



## b2rtch

I used it, I just did not know that the term was 'tag", I never paid attention.
Thank you for your help.

God is always right. Amen


----------



## Mean_Dean

> Also related, I saw that one of my woodworking heros, David Barron, is making the trip across the big pond to attend Handworks. Stoked.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Big Red One, if you see Norm, say "hi" for me!


----------



## Mean_Dean

Jmartel, love your shop speakers! Nothing like some loud rock & roll to get you revved up!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jay- Course I'm just razzin Clayton. I doubt Barron or any of those guys will want to have a beer with a galoot like me. Maybe some of my Lj buddies though;-) 
I doubt I can swing taking classes and all the works at WIA, but I'd like to swing by. We'll have to talk as it gets closer. It's right in Shane's backyard, but we might have to pay his $10 to get in the door. He's kind of a tightwad;-0

Cool Mark, hope to meet you at handworks. We're gonna stay at one of the B&Bs….they're fun.

Jmart, gotta love how walnut planes. So much easier than white oak.


----------



## jmartel

Which is good, red, because there's a lot more to plane. I've still got about 1/3 of parts that need one side planed before I can rip, and I am planning on jointing one face of all parts with the #6 to make sure I have a dead flat reference for final thickness planing. Going at this project a bit differently to try and get the best joints I can.


----------



## jmartel

> Jmartel, love your shop speakers! Nothing like some loud rock & roll to get you revved up!
> 
> - Mean_Dean


Yep. I had an old iPod radio type thing, but the buttons on it didn't work anymore. Needed to be controlled by the remote. Dropped the remote too many times, and now that didn't work either. So I got those speakers for $30. I'll figure out a way to mount them somewhere and make a case for my phone/netbook so they don't get dusty.


----------



## JayT

> I doubt I can swing taking classes and all the works at WIA, but I d like to swing by. We ll have to talk as it gets closer. It s right in Shane s backyard, but we might have to pay his $10 to get in the door. He s kind of a tightwad;-0


Yeah, we'll see what the class schedule looks like when it comes out. That will determine whether or not it's worth the cost and time to me.

All we have to do with Shane is disguise him as a child under 12 and he'll get in free. I'm sure he's used that ruse before.


----------



## RPhillips

Red, that reminds me, if any of you guys are ever at Marc Adams, hit me up and we can have a beer. I'm about a 20 minute or so drive from there


----------



## jmartel

I spent today jointing one face of each board by hand. Roughed it in with the #5 1/4, finished up with the #6. I wasn't able to get to the boards that will make the top, but I'll do those tomorrow.










Lots of shavings in the shop










Tomorrow I'll send them all through the planer to get to 3/4" and then hopefully start cutting joinery.


----------



## ToddJB

That's a lot of man power there, Jmart.


----------



## Iguana

Red, I was planning on looking you up…

Haven't thought about accommodation this far ahead - the B&B you mention - at the Amana colony?


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, I'm nursing a blister at the moment. And my arms are sore. I still have to plane one face of the 4 boards to make the top, as well. But, it'll be time to switch to power tools for a bit tomorrow for cutting joinery and thickness planing. Hand tools will come out again once joinery is cut.

I need to make myself a tool as well for hammer veneering the panels.


----------



## j1212t

Bed assembled as of yesterday. Will post as a project once my wife makes better pictures. 
3 coats of amber shellac for finish, really love the golden tones it brought out in the oak. Very pleased with the end result.









Just finishing up my project drawings for the dresser/changing table to go with the bed. Might have a commission to make before I get to the dresser, but a good plan never hurt anyone.


----------



## DanKrager

Jake, I'd be real tempted to put a lid on that crib that would turn it into a changing table just by a one handed close (or liifing) of the lid. Lots of ways to do it. Just a thought….
DanK


----------



## j1212t

Dank - that's where I started but in the end I decided against it. Need the dresser anyway.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jake- I've never done amber shellac on oak. I'll have to try that.

Mark- you can find the Amana B&Bs here:
http://www.amanacolonies.com/listingcategory/where-to-stay/

I've stayed at a couple and they're kinda fun. Keep in mind there's like three or four colonies…but they're all a only a couple miles from each other. Even if a guy had to just stay in one of the chain hotels by the interstate it wouldn't be a big deal. The colonies are about 8 miles from the interstate.


----------



## jmartel

Today's work










Planed down to final thickness, cut to final width and length. Still need to put all of them on the shooting board to square everything up and get it all exactly the right length.


----------



## DanKrager

Nice, Jmart. 
DanK


----------



## byerbyer

I second the WIA talk. I will be there, but any classes are TBD once I see what is offered and their prices.

Jake - Well done on the crib!


----------



## Mean_Dean

Jake, I love the look of that dresser! The curved legs really give it a nice look.


----------



## j1212t

Thanks! I borrowed the idea from a set where I also borrowed my crib from.  Some changes have been made, but I realy dig the Japanese influence also. Might be a a month or two until I get to that but it will go perfectly with the crib!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

For some reason these pie safes keep getting dropped off at my shop. This one is by far in the worst shape. (This pic is after I made repairs). This family relic was storage in an auto shop of late. Man, it's rough. All the hinges were busted ouf of the faceframe. Mud daubers on the inside….ugly.

This time I was clearly stated I wanted nothing to do with the refinish. I have fixed all the busted pieces, and now I take it to my buddy who is a painter/refinsher. Bless his heart.


----------



## daddywoofdawg

have you tried craftsman?


----------



## Mean_Dean

Big Red One,

What you ought to do is take it to a metal shop and have it sandblasted. Would make short work of getting the old paint/finish off of it!


----------



## j1212t

2 better pics of the bed. Will post as a projetc tomorrow, but check out that sweet grain!


----------



## Buckethead

Love the rays! This is a really nice crib, Jake. Very well done!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Bueno Jake. I've said it before, our forefathers had it right: oak should be quartersawn for furniture. It just looks so much better. Notice how many antiques are quartersawn?

Other news- In case anyone doubted my utter distaste for shoddy work, here you go. Today I tore up the newly laid hardwood floor in my hallway. I don't want to speak poorly of the co-worker who helped me install this, but it wasn't straight. I'm not talkin' 1/4"....it was WAY off. Drove me friggin nuts. 
It took me a month to come up with a method of lifting the flooring without trashing it, but I found I could pry it up a little and saw the nails with a multi-tool. I only busted a couple boards removing it this way. It would have been a lot easier to do it right the first time. But, I've got it installed correctly now….and all is well with my soul.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Looks great, Jake. Looking forward to your project posting!

Big Red One, I've learned a couple of things in my old age:

First, you get what you pay for.

Second, it's faster to go slower and do it right the first time.

Third, it's cheaper in the long run to purchase the best quality that you can, rather than replacing the cheap item several times.


----------



## CFrye

LOL Red! Glad you made it right in your world.


----------



## buster09841

shameless posting to add to watchlist


----------



## JADobson

Looks good Red. You'll never regret the work it takes to make it right. Better than cringing every time you look at it.

Jake, the crib looks great. I'll probably have to wait till I have grandkids to make a crib.


----------



## jmartel

Don't just watch, Buster. Show us what you got. If you haven't built anything, go out and start. Always nice to see builds as they progress on here.


----------



## j1212t

Speaking of showing us what you got - I finally posted the project, a few pics can be found there:
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/128057

Next up - dresser/changing station!


----------



## DanKrager

Jake, when you finish the dresser you're gonna have a fantastic and valuable gorgeous set! Awesome design and great craftsmanship. Good luck on the build, man. Keep it coming.
DanK


----------



## j1212t

Thank you Dan! That means a lot coming from a quality artisan like yourself!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Looks great, Jake. Looking forward to your project posting!
> 
> Big Red One, I ve learned a couple of things in my old age:
> 
> First, you get what you pay for.
> 
> Second, it s faster to go slower and do it right the first time.
> 
> Third, it s cheaper in the long run to purchase the best quality that you can, rather than replacing the cheap item several times.
> 
> - Mean_Dean


I concur Dean. Maybe I've been spoiled with friends who have the same ideas of quality work in the past. I got burned by my helper this time. Good thing we were only working in trade.

With all the work I've done on my home this past month, I must say….it sure helps to have a fully outfitted woodshop just down the stairs


----------



## Hammerthumb

Glad you got that fixed Red. It was really starting to bother me!


----------



## handsawgeek

Question for all of you furniture experts on this forum.

I am embarking on a new furniture project involving a long table with sets of additional turned legs in the center. Since this is my own design, it is probably flawed. 
Below is a rough concept sketch. The table top is omitted for clarity. The apron pieces will be M&T into the legs (2×2 stock).










My question concerns the two center cross members shown by dotted lines. First, are they even necessary? 2nd, if so, what would be the best way to attach them? It appears to me that attaching them with M&T would compromise the strength of the leg tops, as there would have to be 3 mortises.

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## theoldfart

Ed, dovetail the cross members. Same idea as case work.


----------



## bobro

You could glue some additional stock to the inside cheek of the inner legs and run the tenons of the two interior stretchers into that, so that the tenons hardly penetrate into the original leg. It would be long grain to long grain gluing, invisible and strong.

In my opinion the additional stretchers would be a good idea, because no matter how hard and strong a wood is, a long unsupported stretch is prone to bending and twisting pressures. Heck it's true even of metal.

edit- I see theoldfart posted as I was typing, and I like his idea.


----------



## jmartel

At the very least I would personally use a cross rail and dovetail it in like Kevin said. You can make say a 1.5" or 2" x3/4" rail, and make it so the 3/4" dimension is vertical. Without those rails, the frame will want to flex in the center, especially if a leg is kicked accidentally.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I agree with Kevin, BoBro, and Jmart, but would add that you should make the crossrail as wide as the leg width. Dovetail it in with the 3/4" vertical.


----------



## Mean_Dean

The guys have given you good advice and I agree with it. The stretchers are necessary, and the dovetail method is the way to go.


----------



## handsawgeek

Well…That's settled!! Dovetailed stretchers it is….

I will likely be posting this build progress on my blog once I get started. Heck, gotta write about something! If any of you dare to follow it, be sure to chime in if you see something I could be doing better. This will be my first ever fine furniture build, and there is a lot of stuff I don't know.

Thank you all so much for the advice!


----------



## theoldfart

And Paul for the win! I should have added detail on the width, another senior moment.


----------



## Mean_Dean

> I will likely be posting this build progress on my blog once I get started.
> - handsawgeek


Be sure to let us know when you start your blog, and provide a link! I'm very interesting in following along!


----------



## jmartel

And don't forget to post sample photos and any other questions here as well. I'm pretty bad about checking the blog section, and usually don't go there unless linked there by a finished project I like.


----------



## DanKrager

+1 ^
DanK


----------



## CL810

The topic of perfection has been discussed here before. Here are David Savage's thoughts on the matter:

Perfection is a terrible taskmaster. Everybody who comes here wants to make things beautifully. That means dealing with the concept of perfection. We all want to make it as well as we possibly can, and we may have limitations of skill or knowledge or equipment that inhibits us. But assuming that we can overcome those limitations how important to the quality of that piece is perfection?

I once made an occasional table for a very intelligent woman. I described to her a surface that I wanted to put on to her table. I asked her if I could do something that was straight from the tool that was perhaps a bit imperfect. I had the idea of running a small block plane across the surface of this table so leaving the tracks of the plane. Tracks are not visible, unless you really looked. Tracks are sensitive to the human touch. I was scared about the idea of suggesting to her that she was getting something less than perfect. As makers we naturally seem to compete with machine made surfaces, the dead flat. My client was instead delighted with the idea and she said something to me that has always stayed with me. It was this.

"Human beings find mechanical perfection profoundly dispiriting we look at this absolutely perfect made by a robot creation and feel inadequate. I would love to experience something made by a human being attempting to be as good as they can be but knowing that they going to fail in the pursuit of perfection."

Since then, I have always sought to put clear water between the furniture that we make and the furniture made by robots. The greater the differences the better. The more I can show the presence of a human being, the skilled hands the knowledgeable workmanship the happier I am.

This often takes the form of surface finishing. Surfaces left straight from the tool not touched by sandpaper and finished lightly with wax or oil. But that is just the beginning. Now we are starting to look for forms that a machine could not replicate clever though it be. This is often at variance with the designers wish to be economical. Good design after all is economical of materials, resources and time. But is it?

We find ourselves NOT designing out the skilled hands, instead of designing for clever machinery and unskilled attendants we do the opposite. Instead of mass production we seek the niche market or the unique. Instead of a world with no skill, we seek knowledge and sensitivity. This is where design is about expression. We have a language of technical competence. We know how to bend and laminate and shape and form. We acquire our skills as makers we learn the vocabulary of shapes and forms. The big question is what do we say with all this language. Now that's the question!!

Regards

David Savage

I copied the text because I could not find it posted on his website. I highly recommend his e-letter, always thoughtful and sometimes entertaining.


----------



## DanKrager

CL810, thank you for posting this. It summarizes a great deal of my sentiment. I wrote a lengthy treatise for myself entitled "The Folly of Endless Improvement" which expressed my rebellion in the commercial world of "change makes things better". I added this to that document.
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff man. I find myself leaning that way too.


----------



## john2005

Thats good stuff there CL810. Couldn't agree more.


----------



## Buckethead

Well spotted Cl810. Good share.

I feel less inadequate, if only for a moment.


----------



## upchuck

CL810-
Thanks for that bit about perfection. "The topic of perfection has been discussed here before." The last time it was discussed reminded me of a few things.
1) Chris Schwarz wrote: "You shouldn't feel bad if there is tear-out on the underside of a shelf. The pets and insectoid pests in your home don't care much when they spot it." 
2) I recall a contemporary infill plane maker who sands his wood parts to 2000 grit.
3) I recall a portion of Jane Smiley's novel Horse Heaven where a cabinet maker had done marquetry/intarsia
on the inside of each drawer for a cabinet. Each drawer had a different picture. Each cabinet was designed 
around a different theme. Both the gallery owner and the buyer ($55,000 in 1990's dollars) thought the result 
was perfect.
4) Life is imperfect. Life is good. One of the reasons life is good is it's imperfection.
chuck


----------



## 489tad

I can finally come out of the shadows. I'm building the pine hutch featured in FWW out of pine that belonged to my friend. I should say ribbon candy pine. Bumpy! Pain in the butt to mill.








There was plenty in bd/ft but after I started cutting out around the giant knots and checks, not so much. I'll have to find some pine for the back and maybe a shelf.









I used my friends Joint-Ability Jig. I would not buy one but with a pile of rough, very rough lumber getting a straight edge to use to rip to jointer size was a breeze. (my 6" Jet jointer does not have the edge on the infeed table to give the ability to flatten wide boards so the widest I can get is 5 3/4", sucks.)









After ripping to width I used hand planes to knock down the high waves and was able to rough mill to 7/8" thick









The pine is acclimating till I can finish mill and glue up next weekend. I'll keep you posted.


----------



## jmartel

Good stuff so far, Dan.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Oh, I'm stoked for this build Dan. When I work with softwoods, I have to constantly remind myself. Otherwise I ding them up.

I think I'm gonna start on a teacup display shelf for my wife now that the remodeling is settling down. This build will have lots of figure maple and some big inlays. Oh My!;-)


----------



## john2005

Nice Dan. That'll be cool.

Should have put this here earlier, speaking of perfection and all…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Alright folks, the website/blog thingy will never be "done".....but let me know what you think so far.

WestfallWoodcraft.com

I'm in the process of rolling over some of my blog posts and tutorials from LJs. No intention of leaving LJs, but I will be posting blogs and such on my site from now on.


----------



## ToddJB

> Alright folks, the website/blog thingy will never be "done".....but let me know what you think so far.
> 
> www.westfallwoodcraft.com
> 
> I m in the process of rolling over some of my blog posts and tutorials from LJs. No intention of leaving LJs, but I will be posting blogs and such on my site from now on.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


That link is broke - but I'm an adult so I can copy and paste.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Man, your quick Todd, I fixed it in under a minute;-) You'll notice it looks a bit like Bob Summerfields www.rmsaws.com

I think he'll take it as a compliment.


----------



## DanKrager

Well done, BRK! I appreciate what you've said on the home page. The rest of your site is fascinating and well laid out.

I'm flattered that you put a link to my web page. With your permission I will do the same, I mean put a link on my page to your page. 

One small thing (forgive my tendency to get sidetracked with details…) perhaps you meant "throngs" instead of "thrones" ? I hate spellchecker sometimes.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

^Thongs ?


----------



## camps764

site looks awesome man. Well done!


----------



## Mean_Dean

Big Red One,

Your site looks great! It'll take me awhile to poke around in there, but I'm looking forward perusing it!


----------



## buster09841

fairly new around here, but i bookmarked you site Dan and plan to follow. looks great by the way, and I can related to a lot of what you said as i'm sure many others around here can as well.

i also happen to have an odd obsession with qswo and walnut, must be since i grew up in a 100+ year old craftsman house that was littered with it  floors, moldings, doors, windows, wainscotting….it is actually what got me into woodworking.

Brian


----------



## jmartel

Not an odd obsession at all, Brian.

I love Walnut. More than probably any other wood. I'm making all of my main floor furniture out of it, in the Craftsman style. You don't see much craftsman stuff in Walnut, but I like it better than QSWO.


----------



## jmartel

Oh, and the website looks good to me, Red. Needs more photos in the portfolio. Detail shots if possible. Those help sell.

Are you going to blog updates on the pieces you are working on similar to how you do on here? Maybe make videos a la Doucette & Wolfe?


----------



## ColonelTravis

Have not been able to do much woodworking for a bit, but I wanted to pass along a book recommendation that you all may already have heard about. The first printing sold out last year. But they just reprinted more and my copy arrived last week. I got mine through Lie Nielsen because their website said they had a copy when no one else did. Turns out they didn't and were sold out like everyone else, but now they have it and you should be able to buy it from lots of places, too. There are also some free downloads of animations that go with the book. You don't need the book to get them, but the book gives you background.










The amount of info. out there in the real world and Internet Land about how to make stuff is mind boggling, but this is the only source I've ever seen that teaches furniture design this way (also non-furniture, but it's primarily furniture). I can't recommend it highly enough. No measuring anything precisely at, say, 36 5/16th inches tall and 14 3/8 across, etc. Basically you learn about proportions and shapes, which is what most people used throughout history and that way of working has kind of been lost.

Lots of photos, exercises, some projects at the end. Not huge - 200 pages. First half kind of explains stuff, the second half shows you how to do stuff. It's a book you will go back to again and again, you will not read it once and stick on the shelf the rest of your life.


----------



## ColonelTravis

By the way, Red your site looks awesome. Good luck with it.


----------



## j1212t

Site is looking good BRK! I hope you don't mind if I pull some inspiration how to set up mine… Mine is only a blog site at the moment, need to set up a portfolio page as well.

BTW - Moses' crib stand for my friends is almost ready, only finishing left to do, will start on the dresser/changing station next week! Exciting times indeed.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

DanK- sure you can link my site. I plan on linking all my favorites, and you came to mind right away. And thanks for pointing out the typos. I'm sure I haven't found them all. I don't think I want to relate to the "thongs" of other bloggers though. lawl.

Jmart- technically my site is really just a blog on google's blogger.com. However, I saw how Summerfi was able to set his up with a menu bar and "pages" to look more like a website….so that's what I went for. 
I still plan on being very active on here, except I just post the blog/tutorial links from my site instead of LJs. If you want, you can subscribe to the blog by email like any other blog.

Frankly, I will be able to make higher quality posts with a much better method of organizing them. Not to mention the option of making videos.

I've still got work to do on the site. I'm in the process of getting the portfolio pictures dressed up and putting them into an interactive gallery. Shouldn't too long. I just figured I'd get some feedback before I get too far into it.

Thanks for the input guys. As I said, I'll be rolling over some of my Ljs stuff, so the early posts will seem repetitive.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Re: By Hand and Eye

I totally agree Travis. The interesting thing about that book is you really need to read it in the shop…..or at least somewhere that you have a divider, pencils, and paper. You really need to work through the exercises to get the full affect. I haven't mastered any parts of design, but I did used techniques from that book designing the last two or three pieces I've built.


----------



## JADobson

Red, the site looks great.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Took a look at your blog page Red. Very nice!


----------



## ColonelTravis

Red, totally agree. And it's such a nice book I hate to mess it up - but it's gonna get messed up!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, totally agree. And it s such a nice book I hate to mess it up - but it s gonna get messed up!
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Speaking of that book, here's a great video. If your even remotely interested in the book, watch this:


----------



## Iguana

I finally got some good pics of my mud room bench. Got some proper lights and backdrop material and set up part of my shop so I can have a little studio when needed. This is wayyyy better than how I took the last pics.

Here's the setup:









And from the mezzanine:









Had my pro photog buddy come over for a morning and give me tutorial on product photography. I need a lot of practice 

I've posted the bench as a project (here), but here's a couple of pics:


















SketchUp model is here, and full PDF plan is here


----------



## wormil

> Speaking of that book, here s a great video. If your even remotely interested in the book, watch this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I really enjoyed that video. Checked out your blog, real nice. Now I'm going to go look up that book.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Books by Lost Art Press aren't as cheap as stuff by Taunton and the like, but they are on another level in terms of quality:

"200 pages long with full-color illustrations printed on heavy #80-pound matte coated paper. The book is casebound and Smythe sewn so it lasts a long time. The hardback boards are covered in cotton cloth with a black matte stamp. Like all Lost Art Press books, "By Hand & Eye" is produced and printed entirely in the United States."

My wife gets me an offering from LAP nearly every Xmas or birthday. She's a book worm so its fun for both of us.


----------



## BTimmons

Great looking shots, Mark. Nice setup.


----------



## Mean_Dean

That's a hell of a setup you've got there, Mark! You could run a side business, photographing other woodworkers products!


----------



## Iguana

Dean, I wish there were more studio woodworkers around here. I'd gladly let them use the space in exchange for beer.

It was relatively inexpensive to set up. The lighting kit was about $260 shipped, the roller system was $60 and the backdrops were $70 each. I might get another light, per my buddy's recommendation, but I'm into it for under $500. And that's Canadian pricing and shipping costs - probably be around $400 to do the same in the US.

Of course, I now want to upgrade the camera and get a couple of really good lenses. That's when it gets expensive


----------



## Iguana

Red, I like the website. Subscribed.

Am reading By Hand & Eye currently. I do most of my designing in SketchUp and am struggling with the idea of abandoning the Tape Measure tool


----------



## john2005

Gearing up for bunk beds. Any input is appreciated.

Red, site looks good!

Diggin the stool there Mark!


----------



## CFrye

Also subscribed, Red! I really liked that video, gonna put that book on the wish list.
We went to the SWTCA GroundHog Day Tool Meet in Joplin, MO today and picked up, amongst other goodies,...










Just flipping through it on the way home…wow! I'm gonna like this book!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ Gotta love Krenov too.

John- I made my kids bunkbed and loft bed from woodsmith plans, which I recommend. I still may have the plans if you need some.



Oh man, I almost can't remember them this little…..


----------



## ksSlim

I must of missed you there Candy.
I picked up an extra iron for a 45 plus some other goodies.
I did see a nice set of LN planes that had only been used once before the owner passed away.
Don't wait too late.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I did see a nice set of LN planes that had only been used once before the owner passed away.
> Don t wait too late.
> 
> - ksSlim


Interesting. I bought a large lot of LN stuff awhile back. Pretty much the same case. Barely got used…. if at all before the dude passed away.


----------



## CFrye

We were asking the vendors if they were Lumberjocks, KS! It wasn't until we got there and hubby asked what your real name was…I realized I didn't know. Opps! Next time, I guess.


----------



## john2005

> ^ Gotta love Krenov too.
> 
> John- I made my kids bunkbed and loft bed from woodsmith plans, which I recommend. I still may have the plans if you need some.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Exactly what I'm after Red. I like the idea of two independent beds should they want to pack em off to college. I will do some digging with woodsmith and if I come up empty, I may bug you for any plans you have left over. I think I could probably just go from the pics though. Its close to what I had sketched up. Thx!


----------



## j1212t

Good luck on the bed John!

I finished the baby basket feet for my friends, now I am starting with my dresser, today is material selection and might even get some sawdust made! Won't make a blog, but i'll keep ya'll updated.


----------



## b2rtch

A while ago someone posted pictures to show how to properly brace table leg in the corners of a table apron. 
I cannot find these pictures anymore, could you help?
Thank you.


----------



## Iguana

Jake, looking good. What is the purpose of the peg at the end of the dovetail?


----------



## ToddJB

It looks like a peg for the side stretcher. But even it is just decorative it's a very cool look and extremely clean. Well executed, Jake.


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, I really like that detail. I think I would prefer it be a diamond on something for me, but it looks cool. I may have to steal that for the future, Jake.


----------



## j1212t

That peg serves 2 functions, design (mainly) and to hide the screw that holds the cross stretcher. Didn't have time or need to dovetail them all in so I used screws and plugs where appropriate. 

Didn't eve think about diamonds, that probably would have looked better!


----------



## CL810

Beautiful piece Jake. I'm curious about the peg as well. I'm kinda of confused about the stretchers. The top and bottom stretchers seen to be put in differently.

Edit: Jake typing as I was. Clearer now.


----------



## ToddJB

> Didn t eve think about diamonds, that probably would have looked better!
> 
> - Jake


I like the circle. It pleases my eye more than I think I diamond would have.


----------



## Buckethead

From an aesthetic perspective, the dowel placement looks fantastic.

Very elegant lines. Beautiful wood/grain selection. You're killing it, Jake.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That is a cool aesthetic Jake.

FINALLY starting my wife's teacup display shelf. Lay out all your maple boys, stock selection time…









I paid a little extra for musical (instrument) grade curly maple. Worth it for the face pieces. Purdy…









This piece will have some large inlays. Gonna use some mallee burl pieces I have. Should be pimp.


----------



## ToddJB

Is that also called fiddle back, Red?


----------



## jmartel

Fiddleback and Tiger Maple as well.


----------



## ToddJB

THanks


----------



## jmartel

Sycamore also comes in a fiddleback figure variety.

For comparison, my tiger stripe maple. Box is 5" high and 5" deep by 16" long. This is straight off the smoothing plane, no finish, no water, etc.










And my fiddleback sycamore veneer. Has much tighter curls. Veneer is about 3.5" wide. Veneer is as I unboxed it from the supplier.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Man I love your figure! The sycamore, I mean…........!


----------



## Gwjames

this is a great forum, I am glad I found it. a little back ground on myself, last year my wife said she wanted a new kitchen table. I was ok with that as our old one was pretty beat up and a hand me down, that is until I started looking at prices… since I work construction I thought to myself, hey why cant I just build I table, little did I know what I was getting myself into at the time. my first project was just that a very low end table made out of construction grade lumber. It works and its sturdy, but I would change so much if I built another. next I built a bench to match the table, same building style out of construction grade lumber. after that I stepped up and built a full size bed, a little better but still using box store wood. then my sister asked me to build her a nanny rocker. that's when my life changed forever haha I started pouring money into tools and using rough stock, since I have built many "fine" woodworking projects and I love it, I cant get enough, and by enough I mean I don't have enough money lol. lately I have been building things and trying to sell them, im not trying to start a business, just make money to support my expensive hobby, I have tried to post things on craigslist, and on facebook, I have decided that im not a very good salesman, hopefully you fellas can give some advice on how to sell a few items to make a little spare cash and to give myself some projects to fulfill this woodworking crave I have lol


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Welcome to the forum Gwjames. Glad to have you.

I wish I could offer more concerning selling your stuff. In my case, for several years I was just focused on raising the money (working OT) to buy the stuff to make OUR furniture. Because I like to push myself, I started getting better. My socialite wife posted my stuff on facebook, and it wasn't long before people were hitting me up.

I'm not the salesman type either, but I am very friendly and honest. I think that helps.

Well, come to think of it, if you can make a little blog/webstie like I just did….it helps. Makes people take you more seriously. I've only had that site up for a week and have referred people to it twice already. I know it will generate work.

Post up what your working on when you get a chance. Take care buddy.


----------



## jmartel

> Man I love your figure! The sycamore, I mean…........!
> 
> - Mean_Dean


It's some good stuff. This was the second time I've ordered it. The curly walnut behind it ain't too bad, either.


----------



## j1212t

Thank you all for the kind comments! Jmartel and Red - I am mighty jealous of your fiddleback/tigers I have yet to find this at our hardwood dealer (yes, we only have one in my city. (which is the capital….) ) 

I started sawing out my pieces for the dresser, after planing one side striaghtish I will rent a lunchbox thicknesser for these, that should be quicker than doing it S4 by hand as I did for the bed.


----------



## Gwjames

thanks for the welcome red, I have a few projects going right now. my wife always tells me I don't know how to do one project at a time, I am always working on atleast two. if you look in my projects you will see some bar stools I made for my shop, I made one of them out of white oak and the other out of walnut, maple and cherry. I loved how the multi woods turned out and how it looks so I decided to do two more similar, except this time I am going to use cherry as the main wood and maple and walnut as the accents, I am also building a maple stool, the legs will be solid maple but I'm not sure about the seat yet. I have thought about going with the same idea of just placing solid pieces of another wood in my glue up but I think I may want to try gluing the seat up then cutting a curve through the middle with my jigsaw (it would be easier on a bandsaw, but that is one thing I don't have) and placing a thin strip of something in it and gluing it back up. I don't know yet, I have also thought about using aromatic cedar as the accent on the maple stool but im not sure how well that would hold up because of how soft the wood is. I am also building a chair height stool for my mothers kitchen. so I have 3 stools going and I am also building a toy box for my son out of cedar, I didn't have any experience with cedar and I still learning more about wood every day I step in my shop, but If I could go back I would have bout either a white oak or red oak to build his box out of because of how soft this cedar is, I know it will be scratched up in no time. well its to late to change that now. the project has been going fine except for one part, when I designed this box I told myself I didn't want to see any end grain and I wanted nice corners on it, so I decided that I would miter the corners. sounds easy, until you start trying to run a 41" long piece of cedar through a table saw sideways… yeah not the best approach, then I decided to use a straight edge and use my wormdrive, worked great, until I went to assemble it and I realized that my straight edge was in fact NOT straight so there was a gap in the middle on all corners, so instead of getting pissed off and throwing expensive tools all over my garage I decided to give myself a few days to really thing about this and get back to it later, but his birthday is march 5th so I don't have much time to piddle around anymore lol I like putting things off until the last minute… anyway, that's a little about my current projects, I will try to post some pictures later. thanks guys.


----------



## SirIrb

Ok, yall inspired me to drop the cash for this book. I hope it is good. Just curious: is it design in general or design for furniture? I am a design engineer and work in the aesthetic realm a lot and would love it if this hit both my profession and my love.
thanks,
SI



> Have not been able to do much woodworking for a bit, but I wanted to pass along a book recommendation that you all may already have heard about. The first printing sold out last year. But they just reprinted more and my copy arrived last week. I got mine through Lie Nielsen because their website said they had a copy when no one else did. Turns out they didn t and were sold out like everyone else, but now they have it and you should be able to buy it from lots of places, too. There are also some free downloads of animations that go with the book. You don t need the book to get them, but the book gives you background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The amount of info. out there in the real world and Internet Land about how to make stuff is mind boggling, but this is the only source I ve ever seen that teaches furniture design this way (also non-furniture, but it s primarily furniture). I can t recommend it highly enough. No measuring anything precisely at, say, 36 5/16th inches tall and 14 3/8 across, etc. Basically you learn about proportions and shapes, which is what most people used throughout history and that way of working has kind of been lost.
> 
> Lots of photos, exercises, some projects at the end. Not huge - 200 pages. First half kind of explains stuff, the second half shows you how to do stuff. It s a book you will go back to again and again, you will not read it once and stick on the shelf the rest of your life.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


----------



## CL810

SI, hope you post your thoughts on this book after you read it.


----------



## August

> That is a cool aesthetic Jake.
> 
> FINALLY starting my wife s teacup display shelf. Lay out all your maple boys, stock selection time…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I paid a little extra for musical (instrument) grade curly maple. Worth it for the face pieces. Purdy…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This piece will have some large inlays. Gonna use some mallee burl pieces I have. Should be pimp.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


i like that red do stuff for wife and have fun in shop, i wish i can do that


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## CFrye

Very purdy, Red!


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## BigRedKnothead

After all that remodeling, it's nice to get back in my shop. I've got the moves like Doucette today.


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## jmartel

I'd be lying if I said I haven't watched all of the Doucette & Wolfe videos multiple times. Seems every time I watch a build video again, I pick up on something new I didn't notice before.


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## Gwjames

I love that curly maple, where did you get it from and how much did it run you per board foot


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## BigRedKnothead

^I got the nice stuff from the Woodsmith store in Des Moines. The "musical" grade was like $9-10 board foot. There are places you can get it from online, but it would run about that with shipping.

Jmart- I enjoy the Doucette and Wolfe vids too. However, sometimes I chuckle at how "staged" they are. Either way, dude's got skills.


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## jmartel

Hey, if it helps sell, they can stage if they want to. They do show some actual building, but it seems like they set a plane or two for taking 0 shavings and pretend they are finishing it off in front of the camera. Or not actually taking a shaving with the shoulder plane and voila the drawer slides in perfect every time. Either way, I've picked up a few things from watching them.


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## Gwjames

so this is the coffee table I designed for my next project, I want a walnut base with a red oak table top with walnut strips between the red oak. I like the farmhouse style type furniture but I don't like the cracks it has in the table tops. so I decided I would do it as in-lays. I really think it will give it a unique look. the only thing im unsure of is how to connect that bottom shelf to the legs, i was going to m&t an apron underneath it but i didn't like how that looked so i want to have it floating, not sure what type of joinery to use here… looking forward to your opinions on my design and on how to accomplish the bottom shelf


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## DanKrager

The customary method of shelf to legs has been to cut a dado notch in the leg to fit the mitered corner of the shelf and secure it with an internal dowel. The shelf in this configuration does not contribute to the stability of the table very much, so all its joints do is keep it and the stuff on it from falling to the floor.

An alternative is to countersink a screw from the outside of the leg into the "notched miter" and cap or plug it. Still another is to pocket screw from the bottom of the shelf up into the leg.

This is a pretty upscale design for the *********************************** brick method.

DanK


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## Gwjames

> ^I got the nice stuff from the Woodsmith store in Des Moines. The "musical" grade was like $9-10 board foot. There are places you can get it from online, but it would run about that with shipping.
> 
> Jmart- I enjoy the Doucette and Wolfe vids too. However, sometimes I chuckle at how "staged" they are. Either way, dude s got skills.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


where online can you get curly maple for 9-10 dollars a bd ft??? i have only ever seen it for $20+ if i saw some for $9-10 i think i may have to buy all of it, even if the wife does put me on the couch for a week… still worth it haha


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## Gwjames

yeah i think dowel is the way to go, it may not be the easiest route but i prefer it over using a screw. thanks for the input… not sure if the last part was a compliment or not haha


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## jmartel

What part of the country are you in, GW? It's very regional dependent.

I find mine at Home Depot of all places.


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## Gwjames

I live in southern mississippi


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## Iguana

GW, you may want to rethink the inlay idea. The inlays running the length of the table will be fine, but the ones that go across will be problematic. You will have a fairly long strip laid cross grain and it will get torn out or pushed out as the table expands and contracts. This is mitigated somewhat if you live in a climate that is consistent year round (e.g., Arizona), but still not a good idea over a longer distance.

If you really want that look, I'd suggest a breadboard end - which is the look that type of grooving is meant to "evoke" anyway.


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## ksSlim

Agree w/ Mark. I'd be tempted to glue contrast wood to the edges of the boards then glue up the center section.
Then, apply the breadboard ends and peg from underneath. Just my 2cts.


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## DanKrager

GW, I wasn't cognizant of the part of country you live in. I said that to convey that the quality of your design deserved detailed attention to the joinery, not some cobbled up stuff.

FYI, I fit the classic *********************************** profile to a large degree…. 
DanK


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## BigRedKnothead

> where online can you get curly maple for 9-10 dollars a bd ft??? i have only ever seen it for $20+ if i saw some for $9-10 i think i may have to buy all of it, even if the wife does put me on the couch for a week… still worth it haha
> 
> - Gwjames


What for it…..

www.curlymaple.com ….it should be so easy;-) Nah, that guy has some bundles in the price range. Depends on shipping of course. http://www.curlymaple.com/category_s/78.htm

Hardwood sources is often about finding the "little guys" for the best prices.

Another guy may be Greg at http://treecyclehardwoods.com/ He doesn't list much on his site, but he's always got the goods, or knows who does. Just email him.


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## BigRedKnothead

Also, I worked all night, so I'll get some sleep before I resume the display shelf. Yesterday I got the mitered columns done. 








-








-
I mentioned it way back, but this A&C shelf from FWW is the inspiration.


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## johnstoneb

That fiddleback is going to pop in that. The lighter wood will make the display really stand out.
I picked up a bunch of fiddleback maple here for $6.31 a bf.

http://highdeserthardwood.com/ I don't know if they ship or not. Their prices tend to follow the market.


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## SirIrb

GW,
Just curious, where do you live in SoMs? I was born and raised in Lyman then took a job in Winston Salem NC and have been here for 8 years. I had to learn to cook when I moved. The food here sucks in comparison. Also, where do you get your hardwood? I always went to Dedeaux Clan (because no one else really is in the market).

We will be traveling back in July to stock up on good ingredients for my gumbo, to buy a table saw from my former boss and to…something else…oh yeah, visit the in-laws.



> I live in southern mississippi
> 
> - Gwjames


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## CL810

Always nice to get your daily belly laugh early in the morning!



> We will be traveling back in July to stock up on good ingredients for my gumbo, to buy a table saw from my former boss and to…something else…oh yeah, visit the in-laws.
> 
> - SirIrb


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## CL810

Red, I'd forgot the design for the shelf. It's gonna look real nice. You don't lack in the spousal points area do you?


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## SirIrb

That was an approximate of order of priorities. The gumbo and table saw are fighting for first place. It is an old unisaw. I will be getting a deal (read steal) on it. 500 and it comes with two motors. one is 3ph and i cant use it. So if there is a LJ who is wired up for 3ph I will happily make them a deal. Think it is 1.5hp.

Tasso and andouille for the gumbo. I cant have too much in the freezer.

The in-laws are great. But with the way the math works out (They were 17 when they had my wife and I am near 7 years older then her so they are about 10 years older than me) it makes for a bit of an odd relationship. Then throw in that dad-in-law was a marine for 21 years and I am an anarcho-capitalist…yeah, that can get uncomfortable. But we work with what we have. Top all that with me being the red neck and them being hispanic… God has a sense of humor.



> Always nice to get your daily belly laugh early in the morning!
> 
> We will be traveling back in July to stock up on good ingredients for my gumbo, to buy a table saw from my former boss and to…something else…oh yeah, visit the in-laws.
> 
> - SirIrb
> 
> - CL810


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## NinjaAssassin

You're an anarcho-capitalist??


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## SirIrb

Gold and black.



> You re an anarcho-capitalist??
> 
> - NinjaAssassin


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## NinjaAssassin

Huh, don't tend to run into other voluntaryists too often without seeking out ancap groups. I'm an ancap, too. Nice to meet you.


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## SirIrb

You too. I thought you would be Anarcho-communist due to the Circle A being red. I also didnt expect to run into an ancap here.

Where are you located?



> Huh, don t tend to run into other voluntaryists too often without seeking out ancap groups. I m an ancap, too. Nice to meet you.
> 
> - NinjaAssassin


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## NinjaAssassin

Yeah, I probably should find a more accurate picture to use.

I'm in northern Virginia.


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## Gwjames

> GW,
> Just curious, where do you live in SoMs? I was born and raised in Lyman then took a job in Winston Salem NC and have been here for 8 years. I had to learn to cook when I moved. The food here sucks in comparison. Also, where do you get your hardwood? I always went to Dedeaux Clan (because no one else really is in the market).
> 
> We will be traveling back in July to stock up on good ingredients for my gumbo, to buy a table saw from my former boss and to…something else…oh yeah, visit the in-laws.
> 
> I live in southern mississippi
> 
> - Gwjames
> 
> - SirIrb


well I am a Seabee so im stationed down in Gulfport, but I live in lyman. I buy all my harwood from dedeaux clan, from my experience theyre all pretty good guys, they help me out any time I need a tool that I don't have. theyre happy to give advice and things im working on or letting me use their planer or band saw. I like giving my business to the little guy. prices aren't cheap but not much of a choice anyway.

as far as the bread board ends for my coffee table design, I am still learning a lot in the way of expansion and contraction, and what im learning is that I have been doing it wrong haha. I saw a video of marc spagnuolo putting a bread board in a table he was building and the way he did it was to mortise out the end grain and the straight grain then put in loose tenons in the breadboard side and glue it all the way up on that side and only glue in the center on in the end grain. so I think I will try that but I will glue the in-lay walnut to the red oak bread board, then mortise it out and try his way. I hope that works because I really like the walnut in-lays in the design and don't want to stray away from that.

does any one have experience in using table top fasteners? I have always just glued down my table tops and clamp them, but now that I am researching I have found that is not a good practice due to expansion and contraction, but the concept of table top fasteners just seems like it wouldn't hold the table top down tight enough, in my head I feel like the fasteners would get loose over time and your table top in turn would be loose… what is your experiences with this?


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## SirIrb

I would bet you have driven past my old place hundreds of times. We owned the corner of property between old hwy 49 and john clark rd Across from the Nugent Methodist Church. 45 acres. All family land. Sold out about 12 years ago and they put up some money homes. I used to spend all my free time on the bridge on the old 49 side shooting snakes.

Depending on how long you have lived there we may have met. When I was a teen I worked in the lumber dept at West building supplies.

Glad to meet you.

My father in law works on the base as a civil servant. somethingsomethin communications.



> GW,
> Just curious, where do you live in SoMs? I was born and raised in Lyman then took a job in Winston Salem NC and have been here for 8 years. I had to learn to cook when I moved. The food here sucks in comparison. Also, where do you get your hardwood? I always went to Dedeaux Clan (because no one else really is in the market).
> 
> We will be traveling back in July to stock up on good ingredients for my gumbo, to buy a table saw from my former boss and to…something else…oh yeah, visit the in-laws.
> 
> I live in southern mississippi
> 
> - Gwjames
> 
> - SirIrb
> 
> well I am a Seabee so im stationed down in Gulfport, but I live in lyman. I buy all my harwood from dedeaux clan, from my experience theyre all pretty good guys, they help me out any time I need a tool that I don t have. theyre happy to give advice and things im working on or letting me use their planer or band saw. I like giving my business to the little guy. prices aren t cheap but not much of a choice anyway.
> 
> as far as the bread board ends for my coffee table design, I am still learning a lot in the way of expansion and contraction, and what im learning is that I have been doing it wrong haha. I saw a video of marc spagnuolo putting a bread board in a table he was building and the way he did it was to mortise out the end grain and the straight grain then put in loose tenons in the breadboard side and glue it all the way up on that side and only glue in the center on in the end grain. so I think I will try that but I will glue the in-lay walnut to the red oak bread board, then mortise it out and try his way. I hope that works because I really like the walnut in-lays in the design and don t want to stray away from that.
> 
> does any one have experience in using table top fasteners? I have always just glued down my table tops and clamp them, but now that I am researching I have found that is not a good practice due to expansion and contraction, but the concept of table top fasteners just seems like it wouldn t hold the table top down tight enough, in my head I feel like the fasteners would get loose over time and your table top in turn would be loose… what is your experiences with this?
> 
> - Gwjames


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## Gwjames

that's pretty cool, I know exactly where you used to live and where the houses are built now. I live right by john clark on county farm road. ive only been here for a little over 5 years so don't know if we've ever met in passing or not, but I have most likely met your father in law if he works on cbc.


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## DanKrager

GW, my experience has been that top fasteners, wood or metal, work quite well and have great longevity. There is no reason for the screws to work loose. Part of the key is to use plenty-maybe 10 on a table your size. And the screws don't have to be cranked to the stripping point, just firmly snug.

Good to hear you are beginning to take the inevitable movement of wood into consideration. Have you thought about how to do that with the shelf? IMHO and experience, a firm attachment that far down on the legs will "bend" the legs and not be a problem. It might be a good idea, if the shelf is made of solid wood, to place two or three loose battens on the underside so they can't be seen. In repair work I have done (where you learn a lot about longevity) that combination worked out well.

DanK


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## Gwjames

can you explain what a batten is? im not familiar with the term.


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## DanKrager

Sure. 
Batten has multiple meanings but is generally a strip of solid material, historically made from wood but can also be made from plastic, metal, or fiberglass. applied to the flat surface of a panel to strengthen it and keep it flat.

In this case it would be three strips of wood maybe 3/4×2 laid flatways and cross grain under the shelf and screwed every 6 inches starting with a proper sized pilot hold in the middle, and as the screw holes come closer to the ends of the battens they are put in increasingly long slots, so the expansion and contraction of the shelf can move the screw in the slot instead of splitting. Round head screws and washers under the head are recommended.

If you taper the ends of the battens, they may not be visible, even from a sitting position.
DanK


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## BigRedKnothead

> does any one have experience in using table top fasteners? I have always just glued down my table tops and clamp them, but now that I am researching I have found that is not a good practice due to expansion and contraction, but the concept of table top fasteners just seems like it wouldn t hold the table top down tight enough, in my head I feel like the fasteners would get loose over time and your table top in turn would be loose… what is your experiences with this?
> 
> - Gwjames


Ya buddy, you don't want to be gluing solid wood tabletops down. I've used these figure 8 fasters a lot and they are very stout.










Clips work ok too. You can make these out of wood too.


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## JADobson

I've only used the clips but I like them. Really easy to use. Just remember to cut the kerf before gluing up your aprons. Hard to cut later. Don't ask me how I know that.


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## theoldfart

I made these for a child's table


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## BigRedKnothead

> I ve only used the clips but I like them. Really easy to use. Just remember to cut the kerf before gluing up your aprons. Hard to cut later. Don t ask me how I know that.
> 
> - JADobson


^One of those quirky uses for a biscuit jointer if you have one. I have one, and I use it for goofy things that it wasn't intended for….like grooves for clips on the inside of picture frames.


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## DanKrager

LOL, BRK. Same here. I solved a JAD type problem with one…

DanK


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## terryR

It's a small world.










Alabama chapter…


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## Buckethead

> I made these for a child s table
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart


Love these, Kev. They're like the old school true blue kind. Well, old school relative to screws being used to fasten furniture.


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## Buckethead

> ^One of those quirky uses for a biscuit jointer if you have one. I have one, and I use it for goofy things that it wasn t intended for….*like grooves for clips on the inside of picture frames. *
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I'd like to see an example, red, if you've got a shot of that process.


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## JADobson

Not having a biscuit joiner I put my whole assembly on my table saw and then raised the blade. Did the job. Luckily I only had one side to do.


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## theoldfart

Thanks Bucket, and the screws were sloted and clocked.


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## BigRedKnothead

> I made these for a child s table
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart
> 
> Love these, Kev. They re like the old school true blue kind. Well, old school relative to screws being used to fasten furniture.
> 
> - Buckethead


Not to give Kevin grief, but it's a good idea to make the grain the other way on shop make clips. Like this:


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## BigRedKnothead

Bucket- here you go:









When I replace I picture frame, I rob the glass and backing with clips. Heck, for like a 9×11, it's often cheaper to buy a cheap wal-mart plastic frame and rob the glass and backing out of it.

Anyway, with a biscuit jointer you can make grooves after the fact.


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## BigRedKnothead

Backing up a bit, check out this clamping monstrosity. It's tough to see but there is clear packing tape holing the miters together. Then I add a few clamps to square it up and take form. Then, I just keep adding clamps whereever I see a gap or think it needs one. Looks crazy, but I've done it several times and it works.

That said, I did have a footlong spot on one miter where it was a bit gapped. Here's a little trick some might have seen. Put a little glue in the void (I used CA), then burnish over the corner a bit….closing the gap. 









You don't need a fancy cocobolo burnisher (although it does make one sexier). A screwdriver shaft will work. It's wood, it will give. Any "roundover" that occurs will be taken out with the smoothing plane later.

Last thing, I'm still not "in" with the sketchup crowd. Maybe some day. I still use graph paper and my eye for proportions and design. Sometimes I do goofy mock-ups with that actual piece for layout and proportions. 









Next, dados for the shelves.


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## BigRedKnothead

Doh aforementioned clamping monstrosity.








sorry, one too many night shifts in a row.


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## j1212t

oh BRK, you put on a few clamps and think you have a monster, 'aint you sweet…  I see your monster and I raise you a real frankenstein of a clamp-up.










I am glueing up leg blanks for the dresser, and since these are all the clamps I have, I put them all on… cau'se why not (that's 13 clamps btw)


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## Gwjames

> It s a small world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alabama chapter…
> 
> - terryR


call me uneducated, but why does this confederate flag have gold and black on it?


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## CFrye

What, Jake, no rubber bands? Heeheehee
I believe Terry is saying he's an anarcho-capitalist, too.


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## SirIrb

Black and gold are the colors for anarcho capitalism. Black for anarchy and gold for, well, gold. Capital, the market. Now as an anarcho capitalist I do see a bit of a question with combining anarchy (no rulers) with the csa. No matter how southern I am the csa was still a gvt. I stand to be corrected. I don't claim to know everything (except for the mysteries of the universe, I got those).



> It s a small world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alabama chapter…
> 
> - terryR
> 
> call me uneducated, but why does this confederate flag have gold and black on it?
> 
> - Gwjames


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## Gwjames

oh ok, that makes sense, in knowing that I think the rebel flag is a representation of rebelling against the powers that be (the current government) but I am making a wild guess


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## terryR

Yep, the CSA flag is just a symbol of rebellion. There are better symbols…I was in a hurry when I posted that one…should make up my own! 

No Politics…


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## BigRedKnothead

^Unless you paint your "Anarchist's Tool Chest" with that flag. Then it's ok;-)


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## SirIrb

I need to get that book and it has nothing to do with philosophy. Waiting for "by hand eye". Can't wait for that.


> ^Unless you paint your "Anarchist s Tool Chest" with that flag. Then it s ok;-)
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


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## Buckethead

"I only believe in science". ~ Steven


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Here's a good furniture making video worth a watch…..

http://www.innamag.com/this-man-surprises-his-wife-with-a-priceless-gift/


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## BigRedKnothead

And here's a Friday laugh for ya'll. I interned a children's pastor for a semester in college. As you can imagine, the Sunday morning prayer requests were always interesting. One Sunday little Steven asked to pray for his "peter." Not quite where he was going, I let him continue. Steven said, "ya, I was going potty yesterday and the toilet lid slammed down on my peter."

I wish I could say I kept from laughing….but I didn't.


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## JADobson

Haha, Red. Kids in church are great. My buddies four year old ran into the sanctuary a few weeks ago while the pastor was praying his benediction. The boy shouted, "Hurry up already, it's lunch time!"


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## JayT

^^ That's hilarious, Red.

At one of the schools I taught at, a first grader came up to one of the male teachers at recess with a very serious expression and told him, "My woody's up and and I can't get it down." The teacher was a bit taken aback and asked the child to repeat himself and got the same story. Not being able to resist at this point, the teacher then asked, "So how big's your woody?" The student, still being very serious, held his hands about a foot and a half apart. At this point the teacher was nearly crying from trying to contain the laughter.

Turns out the child had brought a Toy Story Woody doll to school for show and tell and while throwing it around at recess, it ended up on the roof. The teacher always maintains he was pretty jealous of a first grader's 18 inch woody.


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## Gwjames

are you absolutely freaking kidding me?!??
I get this bottom panel all cut down and squared up and come to find out I cut it to 36 5/8" instead of 38 5/8"!!!
the shop I get my stock from is closed until freaking Monday and my sons birthday is flipping sunday… I am not having a good Friday night in the shop!!!!


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## upchuck

I hate it when I do that.


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## DanKrager

GW, a couple splined breadboards at 1" each might solve the problem neatly. Use hardboard (Masonite) or 1/4" plywood for the spline. Put several screws in the breadboard, and glue the spline only in the middle 1/3 of the bottom panel and all the way along the breadboard.

This is actually good news for you because you would eventually have run into the expansion contraction thing either tearing your bottom apart or pushing the walls out.

DanK


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## BigRedKnothead

Ah crud Gary. I've been there. I'm having a hard time telling the whole situation with that pic, but surely there's some sort of solution like DanK is suggesting. I've fixed worse;-/


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## Airframer

Just make the box smaller to fit the bottom and call it meant to be!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

A very hybrid afternoon working on the shelf. I love my hand tools, but I can bust out some joinery in short order with a router and a tablesaw. I just made a quick jig for the dados. Router pattern bit:








-
Now the lady in FWW made the dadoes exactly the thickness of her 3/4" shelves. I always run into trouble doing that. Seems like even a little extra smoothing will make the shelf too thin….and thus a loose dado. So, I made my dadoes 1/2" and milled a small shoulder on the tablesaw. The tradeoff is….now I have a shoulder on each shelf to finesse to a good fit. 








-
Back to that hand tools. My power planer and jointer tearout on this tiger maple. Suckage. However, an uber sharp hand plane does not. 









-

After I had the shelf tenons fitting well, I cut the curves front edges of the shelves. This is one of the many changes I made from the FWW design. Frankly, the shelves need to be deep to fit the wifey's teapots. Plus, I'm goin a little more contemporary on this shelf anyway. Here's how she looks tonight:









And this is about the cutest little spokeshaver I ever did saw….


----------



## Hammerthumb

Awesome work Red, but your floor needs a broom.

Totally cute spokeshaver!


----------



## Gwjames

I really just can't believe I did this, I teach construction for a living for crying out loud, I constantly harp on measure twice cut once. I really don't want to do a work around here, this is going to be a toy boy for my little guy right now but I intend for this to be a cedar chest he has for the rest of his life and I want it to have a solid bottom in it. I guess I will just give it to him late. I'll grab some more cedar on Monday after work.

If you can't see it, the panels around the side are all mitered and joined with biscuits (actually more of a pain then it sounds) and I have a 7/8" dado cut along the bottom for the bottom panel to fit nicely into, and I cut it 2 whole inches short… Whatever, it is what it is… You live, you learn.


----------



## Gwjames

Is any one else's shop absolutely freezing right now?! I'm in southern mississippi, it's not supposed to be cold here!!!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Paul. I'll bribe the shop elves to sweep it in the morning. They'll do anything for sprinkled donuts.

Gary- Like I say, I've jacked up way worse. Last year I posted here when I routed the hinge mortises on the wrong side of a completed blanket chest. It sucked, but I fixed it.

Not to add insult to injury, but since I've don't the same thing, I now try to use the actual piece to mark the length. Tape measures add a couple more steps and thus room for error.


----------



## Gwjames

Yeah red that seems like it doesn't leave as much room for error, as a light frame and heavy timber construction worker/ instructer it's hard for me to lay my tape measure and construction pencil down but those are two tools I wish I would just put in my tool box when I get off work and leave it there.


----------



## Gwjames

Let me see if I understand your suggestions, you think it would be best to cut a piece the size of my gap, cut a dado on the end of my bottom panel as well as the gap piece, then use another piece to place in the dado's and glue the middle third, then sand it down and call it good and walk away?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Shoot Red, I'll come out and sweep for sprinkled donuts!

Gary - another thought might be to make a frame and panel bottom if you have some extra material for the frame pieces.


----------



## Gwjames

I really don't have the material right now, and like I said, I don't think my supplier is open until monday


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Gary, a breadboard is about the only thing I can think of….








-
I hear ya about the tape measure. I still use one quite a bit. But I kept reading about furniture makers using story sticks…or marking the actual piece. I've tried to change my ways and it has paid off.

Last year I was helping my buddy trim his basement…baseboards and such. When I install that stuff, I intentionally cut it a little long, then I hold it in its actual place and mark it with a knife or fine pencil…..then I make the final cut to that mark. My buddy saw this and starting laughing. He said he could do it my way….but he "likes making ten trips to the miter saw."


----------



## Gwjames

Do you think it would be better to cut it mortise and tennon or two mortises and a loose tennon


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I would just do a tongue and groove like the pic above. Glue the center "third". Should be fine for the bottom.


----------



## john2005

Diggin your shelves Red

Agree on the breadboard GW


----------



## Iguana

GW, I'm in western Canada and it hit somewhere around 50°F today. So between that and the heater, the shop wasn't freezing. Besides, what are you doing working in the shop on a Friday evening? That's for bourbon, not woodworking 

Red, I'm digging the curved fronts on those shelves.


----------



## DanKrager

My shop is below freezing and even with the flash heater, it's hard to spend more than a couple hours. Progress on my saw benches is happening, but at the rate of one half dovetail set per session. There are 8 sets (pins and tails) in this project of extremely hard, even frozen wood. The Stanley 60 chisels are holding up pretty well because I do not "pry"...pound in and extract as straight as possible, maybe a bit of sideways wiggle, but no prying, which is what fractures the cutting edge.

BRK, those shelves are so striking! You are indeed building an heirloom. How does this hang on the wall?

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Red, I really like the graduated shelves. Very nice touch.


----------



## j1212t

Looking mighty fine there MR BRK! I have thicknessed all the parts except the very top rails of my dresser, so I am calling it a night, must keep something for tomorrow as well.  I see a lot of very fine QSWO in the stack, so the dresser has potential to look incredible once it is done. Will do my best to make sure it does that.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> BRK, those shelves are so striking! You are indeed building an heirloom. How does this hang on the wall?
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Thanks guys. You noticed how they graduated in arc too? My work has flashes of brilliance…..often followed by lulls of utter stupidity. So I stand on guard.


----------



## jmartel

Got the Tongue and Grooves cut for the Catbox. Just a dry fitup with the same size tote inside as the litterbox.


----------



## DanKrager

OK. So you haven't figured out how it hangs on the wall yet? 

DanK


----------



## Mean_Dean

Jmartel, that's going to be the nicest cat box in history!


----------



## Mean_Dean

> Besides, what are you doing working in the shop on a Friday evening? That s for bourbon, not woodworking
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Now you're talk'n!!


----------



## buster09841

so i have 3 questions…

1 about finish and 1 about an upcoming built in closet and a bonus 1 about interior shutters (i know this one isn't really furniture, that's why it's a bonus haha), hopefully you guys can shed some light for me.

1st off. i have a very nice table that i had built about a year ago for our eat in kitchen. it has 4 coats of catalyzed conversion varnish on the top. question is this…while cleaning it one night there must have been some vigorous scrubbing done with a brand new scotch brite sponge and it dulled the finish in 2 spots. you can't feel the marks but you can see the swirls from the scrubbing. is there a good way to fix this. i was just going to leave it but it's bothering me WAY to much now…

2nd i'm planning a closet built in for our master closet and it's going to be basically floor to ceiling. the closet has carpet in it. so the question is should i pull the carpet back and have someone come and restretch and cut it to the front of the builtins or should i place the builtins directly over the carpet and affix to the wall as normal? i have seen alot of differing thoughts and would like to personally ask what others have done.

3rd this summer i'm going to embark on a shutter project for the front windows of our house. there are 4 sets of double vinyl windows that i'm working with. they are the one piece double wide windows…read no center mullion. so what would you do here to mount the middle shutters to. i can't use a full frame because there isn't enough room on the outside edges to swing the windows in for cleaning. i was thinking or building out the center vinyl mullion and toe nailing into the upper window box trim, or pocket screws. also would you make the built out mullion the same thickness of the shutters or extend it back to meet with the vinyl of the windows…basically making it into 2 separate windows with no visible light between each?

over and out…

oh and i'm finishing up a mudroom builtin, i'll post that in the next few days as well.


----------



## Iguana

Buster,

#1 - you can buff the scratches out. CV takes buffing quite nicely. The catch is that you may have to do the whole table, as the spots you buff out may end up shinier than the rest of the table.

#2 - I've done a few builtins and have always put them on top of the carpet. The carpet doesn't care. If you pull, cut and restretch, you'll also need to add baseboard to cover the carpet edge.

#3 - no clue.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

buster- my responses would be pretty much the same. When I did built-ins in my kids closets, I did knife the carpet when I put cleats on the floor. That way I could get the carpet up later.

Already thinking ahead to finish on my curly maple shelf. We want to go natural, as in I don't want stains or dyes. Is there any methods people know to make the curly figure show without dye? Only thing I know to do is BLO and blonde shellac.


----------



## lateralus819

Dan- Grab some Minwax tung oil. Do two coats. Let it dry thoroughly.

Then what i do is wet sand it with a beeswax to 1000 grit. Shines like a mirror and the grain pops like crazy. It might take a bit on that size of a piece but IMO it is worth it. Gives an incredible depth to the piece.

Any type of sandpaper in the lower end IMO makes the grain look hazy ad foggy. Thats the only reason i do it on curly maple. With a high polish on it it allows the figure to reflect the majority of the light hitting it.

Food for thought. Hand plane it all smooth and grab some high grit paper and some nice wax and go to town. Try it on a piece of scrap?


----------



## lateralus819

This was done in that manner. for reference.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Cool. I was wondering if I should try some of that or Waterlox. Never tried either, but people rave about the depth they give.


----------



## DanKrager

Buster, I've hung quite a few shutters the first time they were popular. You could easily double hang or triple hang the shutters, i.e. hinge two or three shutters together and then mount that assembly to one side, and the same on the other side for a total of four or six shutters wide with no mullion in the middle. You will need some quality hinges, perhaps the wrap around kind (I would use piano hinges), probably longer screws. and a pretty sturdy attachment at the side of the window. You could make the shutters lighter by making them shorter and have, say, three rows instead of one or two. These assemblies need a hook latch in the middle and are very exacting and tedious to hang. Done right, however, they will be durable as long as some monkey doesn't swing on it.

You could also do a full blown window treatment by building a frame surround to hold a pair of lightweight curtain frames that are each a full window width. If there's room, they can swing full open and lay flat against the wall. Wish I had digitized pictures of some of my past window treatments. 
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Say a little prayer for ol' Red this Sabbath day. Starting on the inlays. I think this is my third attempt at inlays. I'm airly confident with my skillz, but screwup this late in the game would be disastrous.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mallee burl selections for the inlays….








-
After rough cutting the shapes on the jigsaw, I sand to the line. Notice the table is slightly tilted. I want the inlays slightly tapered. This way they will wedge into place. Hopefully gap free. 









This is gonna be sharp if I pull it off. 









Just need to decide which species to do for the long "stem". Thinking walnut would be too much contrast. Maybe jatoba…...hmmmm.


----------



## jmartel

Dan, use double sided tape to hold the inlay down while you knife around it. Much easier than trying to just hold it down like I normally do.

You using an electric router to hog out the waste?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Jeff, I used double-sided tape too. I'll use the router to get close, then hand tools.



> How does this hang on the wall?
> 
> DanK


Doh, forgot to answer that part. I'll put some of these on the back of the columns Dan.


----------



## j1212t

Don't know if my vote counts but i would always go with shellac, easy to apply and very forgiving.


----------



## jmartel

Honestly, I think I find it easier to just do the whole thing with a router, myself. If you watch close, you'll see a bit of fuzz around where the bit is cutting. As soon as the fuzz disappears, you are on your line. I just watch for that and then don't have any problems, usually. I just use chisels to get into corners that my bits won't go into.


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, those are cool little widgets. I've gone to using key hole slot cutters. 
DanK


----------



## SirIrb

Ok, here you go. My 2 cents on "By Hand And Eye".
http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/4794


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I took my daughter to our local botanical gardens. Being the furniture nut that I am, I was drawn to the library furniture….









-










-
Either it was Stickley, or one heck of a knockoff. Look under one of the chairs….








-
Yepper, "modern" Stickley. As in it's from the only Stickley brother still in business LG&J Stickley. As I have linked above at Stickley.com. I've seen antique Stickley furniture, but never the newer stuff, so I enjoyed that.

I will say, I'm not a fan of the bench design below. Sitting in one affirms. There's a sharp corner right where your mid back contacts. The morris chair above, however, was very comfortable.


----------



## CFrye

Red, that just made me laugh! At first I imagined you on your hands and knees looking under that chair, then I noticed your (?) feet in the photo and realized you simply picked it up and turned it over like It was a doll house miniature. Heeheehee.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^hehehe. Of course the dining chair was easy to flip over, but I did get down to look under some other pieces- not just to see a brand, but how they were made. I didn't get strange looks, because it was pretty quiet at the botanical gardens in March

Reminds me of a Chris Schwarz article I read though. He and a friend were touring some old a estate, he says:

"In any case, it was a lucky turn of events. I and the two guys with me with were paired with our own personal docent for a tour. When she found out that two of us were furniture makers, she gave us little flashlights.

"I know your type," she said. "You're gonna crawl under the highboys."

And crawl like slugs we did."


----------



## SirIrb

I imagined you would get kicked out. 
I get the same thing as a plastics designer. My wife hates walking through a story with me. "what are you looking at?" "Look at this living hinge, wow, nice design. and this light pipe….".



> ^hehehe. Of course the dining chair was easy to flip over, but I did get down to look under some other pieces- not just to see a brand, but how they were made. I didn t get strange looks, because it was pretty quiet at the botanical gardens in March
> 
> Reminds me of a Chris Schwarz article I read though. He and a friend were touring some old a estate, he says:
> 
> "In any case, it was a lucky turn of events. I and the two guys with me with were paired with our own personal docent for a tour. When she found out that two of us were furniture makers, she gave us little flashlights.
> 
> "I know your type," she said. "You're gonna crawl under the highboys."
> 
> And crawl like slugs we did."
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


----------



## CFrye

"and crawl like slugs we did"
Too funny!


----------



## summerfi

I thought this was a good article.
Zen Rules For Woodwork


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Thanks for posting that Bob! Definitley one of the best articles on woodworking I've read in awhile. "Woodwork is brutally logical." So true, as were the rest if his points.

I'm still plugging away on the display shelf. Here's some shots of the inlay process. My technique is much like the Wood Whisperers seen here.










I made my inlay pieces nice and thick because I was afraid the burl pieces would break tapping them into place. This didn't happen, the burls are very hard and stable. Nevertheless, it wasn't a big deal to saw the protruding inlays close and plane them flush…..right around beer-thirty yesterday








-

Oh ya, since I'm makin something for the wifey, I have to justify a new tool purchase. This bought this fence for my bosch router. It made routing the groove for the "stem" a cinch.









-
Then I smoothed everything up. I used some back bevel/ruler trick magic on my hand planes. Very happy with how well I was able to smooth this tough material without tearout. 








-

I still have the back and column caps to make, but I put a coat of finish on these parts. Prop to LJ Lateralus for suggesting Minwax tung oil. This product does a nice job of showing off the figure on curly maple without coloring it too much. I plan to build up several coats. 









My wife is getting excited…

and I'm ready to get the cupboard back that is full of tea cups


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice work Red. I see that the shelves are graduated in depth. Did you maintain the same radius? the shorter one looks different. Although that may just be my old eyes playing tricks on me.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Paul. The radius gets bigger with the shelf depth. I kinda like the effect. You can see it better on this dry fit.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Got it. Thanks for explaining.


----------



## jmartel

Looks good, Red. I made an edge guide for my router (same Bosch as yours), but I have been contemplating buying that one solely for the dust port.

For your hollow posts, did you just do a miter with a spline? Lock miter?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Jeff, the miters are just edge glued. They won't have near the stress a blanket chest or something would have on it. But…splines might have made the glueup easier.


----------



## LJRay

> My wife is getting excited…


TMI



> The radius gets bigger with the shelf depth. I kinda like the effect.


Ditto. Very Nice.


----------



## CFrye

Red, what did you use for the stems? Doesn't look dark like the jatoba I've seen. Cherry?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Went with white oak for the stem Candy. Seemed about the right hue.


----------



## vikingcape

Summerfi thanks for that article. I liked the thoughts in it. I might even have my students at school read it. It's not music related but it applies to what we do as musicians.

Red, that shop looks like it's getting dirty. Didn't think it ever got that way. You must be slipping.

Hopefully be sharing some more of my coffee table. Don't get a crazy amount of shop time now. Busy being dad


----------



## johnstoneb

> I thought this was a good article.
> Zen Rules For Woodwork
> 
> - summerfi
> 
> Thanks Bob. Article is spot on.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Hey Guys,

A friend needs her teak bench repaired. One of the legs has broken off, and I need to reattach it.

The leg was simply glued on, with most of the gluing surface as endgrain.









Here is where the leg attached to the bottom of the bench:









Here are two more photos for reference:

















First, let me state for the record, that I did not build this bench. I wouldn't have attached the legs like this, and I would have used a stretcher system of some sort. Just felt it important to say that…......!

So, my question for you guys is, how do I reattach the leg, without a major rework of the bench?


----------



## jmartel

Try dowels. Should give you more glue surface. Wouldn't require building anything else, and it also provides a bit of a mechanical advantage should the glue fail.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Ok, dowels sound like the way to go. So, is it better to use four 1/4" dowels, or two 3/8" dowels?


----------



## DanKrager

In addition to several dowels or even loose tenons, could you lay a notched corner block around the leg and secure it to the rails and the leg? It could be quite thick and protrude below the rails, but if chamfered it would not be visible from a sitting position.

DanK


----------



## wormil

I'm in search of the best awl point. I have several awls with different tips but I find they like to follow the grain and sometimes the hole ends up to the side of where I want it. Sometimes not a problem but sometimes a big problem even if off by hair. I even made an awl sharpened to about 45 degrees on each side hoping the bluntish tip would be more accurate but it's just like the others and likes to follow the grain. I have not tried a bird cage awl yet. So what are you guys having success with?


----------



## DanKrager

Rick, maybe my bad eyes don't see it, but I've sharpened my awl to 30° square tip to minimize wandering. When inserting into strong grain/weak grain (like fir) patterns, I turn the awl so a sharp edge pierces the firm grain at insertion and give it a twist. It's not foolproof.

If this is for centering a screw in a countersunk hole (like a hinge screw) there are centering punches that do very well getting a tiny, accurate pilot for an appropriate drill. Is that what you are calling a birdcage awl? And I have self centering drills that ride the countersink to prevent wandering.

DanK


----------



## kwolfe

4 1/4 inch would have a lot more surface area than 2 3/8. I would say dowels are definitely the way to go.


----------



## wormil

> Rick, maybe my bad eyes don t see it, but I ve sharpened my awl to 30° square tip to minimize wandering. When inserting into strong grain/weak grain (like fir) patterns, I turn the awl so a sharp edge pierces the firm grain at insertion and give it a twist. It s not foolproof.
> 
> If this is for centering a screw in a countersunk hole (like a hinge screw) there are centering punches that do very well getting a tiny, accurate pilot for an appropriate drill. Is that what you are calling a birdcage awl? And I have self centering drills that ride the countersink to prevent wandering.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


This is a bird cage awl, not sure why they call them that. Maybe they were used to make bird cages. vOv








http://www.rpwoodwork.com/blog/2009/12/23/ok-tools-and-excellent-tools/


----------



## Lucasd2002

I'm hesitant to post this in this thread, as it's a pretty modest project… but I have to start somewhere.

I haven't designed much in SU.

I want to build an electronic shelf for our kitchen (for phones, tablets, maybe cameras, etc). The unit/shelf will cover a hole in the wall in our kitchen that already exists for running wires to a wall mounted computer monitor. The concept is very loosely based on the wood whisper's gadget station, but I wasn't planning to do any Greene & Greene. For me, baby steps. This will be the closest thing I've ever done to real joinery.

I have some 4/4 oak in the shop that I plan to mill to 3/4" with box joints for the corners. The shelves are dado'ed in place. The overall dimensions are 20"x13"x5". I have a french cleat shown in the upper shelf area for mounting the unit.

I was thinking of making removable back wall strips (magnetic) similar to the wood whisperer design.

Instead of full doors, this design has a single downward opening door for the lower-most unit, which is intended to hold a surge protector. The SU shows a solid door. Maybe, I should sack up and try a frame/panel door. But, I don't have a table for the router (I guess I could try hand tools for that).

Because I am unfamiliar with design rules and designing projects or furniture in general, I would love to hear some critiques of the design… e.g.: "proportions look wrong," "needs full doors," "shelves should be thinner than side walls," "eat sh1t and die"


----------



## Hammerthumb

Rick - I think the birdcage awl would have less tendency to wander simply because it has 4 sides to the point.

Lucasd - frame and panel doors for this size project are easily made with a table saw. A router table is not necessary. Google frame and panel with table saw. Good luck on your project, and post progress pics here. I'm sure you will get lots of comments and helpful tips.


----------



## j1212t

Lucas - go to youtube, and search for Jay bates Frame and Panel doors, he has a video how to do it on a table saw. It is very simple.

If I could offer one suggestion - I would go with stopped dados for the shelves so that the dados in the front don't show. Or do sliding dovetails in the front, if you want to show the dado… All up to personal preference of course.


----------



## DanKrager

Welcome, Lucas. 
You are off to a good start. A plan is more than half the battle and for me about 1/4 the fun. SUIMF=SketchUpIsMyFriend.

Couple things. A F&P door is going to be heavy, much heavier than say a 1/4 flat panel as shown. Spring hinges or magnets may not be enough to hold it shut. Together they might. Touch latch would for sure. The drop down will need a stay of some sort to keep the door from tearing things apart if dropped.

Since your door is overlay, you could apply molding along the face edges above to conceal the unstopped dadoes. But I like Jakes suggestion of sliding dovetails to show off your skills.

Oh. It's a rule: any worthwhile project should require a new tool. What new tool does this require?

DanK


----------



## Lucasd2002

Thanks guys. This is helpful input. I will update the shelves for either stopped dados or sliding dovetails. I tried to make siding dovetails once and it didn't end well. I should make a table for my router.

For the F&P door, I am not totally opposed to making 2 hinged doors that meet in the middle (which would presumably lead down the path of non-overlaid). I expect that would look better. On the other hand, I suppose there may be some utility in having the door hinge down with a stop or chain holding it near horizontal (to act as a platform).

Either way (vertical or horizontal hinging), I should make it F&P and try to fit within the opening (non-overlaid), I think.

@Dan: based on your tool rule, I need to complete a couple dozen projects to catch up with my recent acquisitions. The most recent of which are shown below. A guy from my office recently retired and he is consolidating his workshop to a second home. From his overflow, I bought this old Rockwell 8" jointer and this 15" Jet planer (birthday presents to myself). I picked them up last weekend, but I don't even have the 220V receptacle for the planer yet. Also, if you look carefully in the background of the jointer picture, you can see my most recent hand tool - a LN LAJ (a birthday present from the family).


----------



## bondogaposis

I'm in search of the best awl point.

Rick, I have found the bird cage awl to be the best awl point design. I have made many awls w/ different points and the bird cage style is my favorite, it's the one I always reach for.


----------



## DanKrager

Well, now that I know it's called a "birdcage" point, this has been the most reliable point for me, too.

Oh man, Lucas! I see what you mean about being time to "put up or shut up"! That's been my planer of dreams for several years. But I'll reiterate here once more that a jointer is a waste of space in my shop, now that I have a really strong table saw. If you don't have a good table saw, trade it for one. I'll answer any questions about that in PM.

OK. Since the tool acquisition is preempted, and you done good, here's what to do about sliding dovetails or dadoes without a router table. Best I've found for tapered sliding dovetails, too. And when you get around to router table, here" is one of the finest designs and you can build it yourself. (Not the one on top, which I've built too, but next one down). 
DanK


----------



## wormil

> Rick, I have found the bird cage awl to be the best awl point design. I have made many awls w/ different points and the bird cage style is my favorite, it s the one I always reach for.
> 
> - bondogaposis


Thanks Bondo. Will make one this weekend.


----------



## pintodeluxe

Red you have to get a router inlay kit! You are absolutely killing me here. Those large geometric shapes are screaming router inlay bushing. Get the Whiteside, it's a keeper. 
Still, I can't argue with your results as it looks stunning. Good job.

I am on my 5th mirror frame in the past few weeks, and I am currently doing a pair of inlays connected by a strip inlay similar to yours. I was thinking of using the router table with stop blocks, but I will consider your method of router and edge guide.
Thanks.


----------



## jmartel

Only time I can see justifying a router inlay kit is if you are going to do a bunch of them. Otherwise, to me it's not worth the money or time. Plus you have to chisel out the corners anyway, so it won't save you a ton of time over doing it freehand. After doing it freehand a few times, it gets easier. But I usually do inlays that are more complex than simple geometric shapes.


----------



## WhoMe

Lucas, Dan has some good input on the f+p door but at your dimensions it shouldn't be that heavy. It also depends on what thou are going to use for the panel, solid oak for a full thickness panel or a oak veneered plywood panel. 
As for one or two doors, consider your space available for opening and which side opens if doing one door. That may make your decision as far as one or two doors.
At either rate, consider your hinge selection. If you are going the European style, the cup in the door is 35mm in diameter with about 3/16 " inset. If you go this way, make sure your frame stiles are wide enough for the cups and your frame edge details so that when you drill the cup hole, you don't punch through. If you're going a different hinge, nevermind…lol
Btw, European style hinges are plenty stout to handle a 20×13 oak door. I have seen and installed a pair on larger doors without issues.
Looking doorways to progress pics.


----------



## CL810

Red, the shelves are bodacious. Not gonna show that project to my wife. 

Lucas the jointer and planer look awesome. Uh, totally unrelated question, but what's your address and vacation schedule?

Late new year's resolution: read Zen rules once a week. Thanks Bob.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Funny Andy, but you might need some help with those!


----------



## CL810

50/50?


----------



## Lucasd2002

> 50/50?
> 
> - CL810


The jointer isn't too tough to move, but it took 3 guys (and an engine hoist) to lift the planer into the truck.

Electrician is supposed to come install the 220 plug tomorrow. Then, I will need to score more rough cut wood here in Georgia.


----------



## pintodeluxe

Martel,
Yeah my last batch of projects had a total of 8 inlays so the inlay kit is the way to go. I use it all the time, and am impressed with it each time. 
It does have limitations with intricate shapes, so it depends what you do I suppose.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

+1 on the birdcage awl. I don't use it for scribing much though. I found that David Barron surgical style marking knife to be the most effective with marking the inlays.

Lucas- My eye wants that lower cabinet door on your design to be an inset/flush face door.

Willie- I do need to get a bushing kit for my router, perhaps the inlays setup as well. It would have helped making a like those big circles. But… I don't mind the practice doing it by hand. Most the inlays I would like to work toward would be fairly freehand anyway. Things like this Greene and Greene:


----------



## johnstoneb

Red
You might test an amber shellac on that figured maple. I'm using it on my tool box and tried some on a piece of fiddleback maple i had and it did some nice things to the figure.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Bruce, that was one of my options on the test board, but the wifey really wanted the maple to stay natural colored. That's fine, as long as I can show the figure off a little with oil. Dyes and shellacs certainly show the figure off even more.

I'm nearing the finish line on this display shelf. The last day or two made the caps for the columns….








-








-
Milled the back boards with half rabbet (twice)....and smoothed them for finish. 








-

I say I milled them twice because the first batch I milled, I worked in some maple that had heartwood in it (above).

Not sure what I was thinking, this was too "busy" and detracted from the focal point of the piece: the inlays. I'm always trying to make the most out of my stock, but this was a case of doing too much. I could hear the Zen Rules of Woodwork echoing form the cornfields… "Train your eye Red…. Stick with what you like….If you build it, they will come." LOL.

So, I'll save those bookmatched heartwood maple for some door panels down the road. I've already milled up and smoothed some very ordinary maple that will be better suited for the back boards.


----------



## johnstoneb

It's looking good. I have been enjoying following it. I ran into those zen rules also with one of my drawers. don't hurry.
I know what yourr wife is like. I like to keep my finish as natural as possible. My daughter-in- law likes things painted. I just have to grin and bear it when making things for them. I'll get her to the natural beauty of wood one of these days.


----------



## Buckethead

Good call, Red. We as wood enthusiasts love figuring and color variance, but from a furniture standpoint, the lines and forms of the furniture piece should be the main aesthetic feature.. (Unless a very simple design is used to highlight a particular feature of a unique piece of stock.)

I've seen some really beautiful figured stock made into a beautifully crafted, heirloom quality piece, resulting in a piece that seems not quite right.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I have my first commission pieces in the offing, maybe, and I'd be crazy for not asking this esteemed panel for input.

Rough guess, how many hours should it take to build these two pieces? Not the finest of furniture, both are listed as DIY projects with pocket hole joinery throughout. I plan M&T for the aprons to legs, however. And dovetailed drawers, wood slides.



















What say anyone?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Are you buying the legs Smitty, or turning yourself?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Legs are bought from Lowes. Material is construction grade pine ( I know, but it's what they want ). Buffet is as pictured, but with the bought legs vs. square.


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## mochoa

The first table could be cranked out pretty fast. Especially since you are buying the legs. Aprons are 2×6" all you have to do is crosscut and run a bead (or just a saw kerf, or plow 1/8" groove). What method will you use for the M&T? That will be the most time consuming part. 10hrs?


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## mochoa

for just the first table that is. not sure on the second. drawers are not my forte.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I have the mortiser, so those will be power. Cutting tenons by hand.

You'd say ten total hours for both, including distressed paint / finish?

EDIT: Ah…. 10 for the farmhouse table. Got it.


----------



## ShaneA

Maurico must be a speed builder. Counting trip to select, buy, and unload lumber, glue ups, flattening and sanding. I say more than 10 hrs(for me), but I may not work at the speed of others. I assume you will not be applying the finish? if not maybe 15-20 hrs on the table. Maybe a bit more for the side piece. The drawers will take up a good bit of time to dial in fit and performance. If you are applying the finish…well then considerably longer.


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## Hammerthumb

I think Maurico is pretty close with the table. I think I would triple that for the sideboard.

Mortiser Smitty? I never knew!


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## mochoa

After my last table built I'd say yeah, I made tempates for routing mortices in tables that size and its fast. scraps of 1/2" material make the tenons.

there is no flattening for this operation, just choose the flattest boards you find at the home center. Nothing needs to get run through the planer for this one.

On the aprons your just running a plane (jack for texture) over one face, the rest can stay rough, no one will see them. Oh and ripping off the rounded edges on the TS. none of that takes much time.

I don't count the time it takes to go buy the lumber… Picking through the stacks takes some time.


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## mochoa

Smitty, I would go full pocket holes on the second piece. That's not a piece that is going to carry any weight. Its not an heirloom quality item…. Legs could be ripped off of a SYP 2X.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Mortiser Smitty? I never knew!
> 
> - Hammerthumb


Bought it in my earliest 'setting up my shop' days. Ever since I saw Norm drill square holes, I wanted one.


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## Hammerthumb

Yeah - I have one too. Wife left the garage door open one night about 12 years ago. Someone took it. Must have thought it was a benchtop DP. Surprise! Needless to say, I got a new one, padlocked the garage on the inside, and I have the only key. Wife parks in the driveway now.

I did hand chop the mortises in my nephews bench legs this weekend. Been a while since I had done that.


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## mochoa

by the way, I've been making a lot of painted pine furniture lately. I was getting 1×12"'s at HD for roughly $2.50 a bf which isn't bad I found out that my lumber dealer sells 1×12" in 16' lengths for about $1/bf. Some of it is pretty gnarly but you can find some decent boards, and for painted furniture you cant beat that.

Just saying Smitty, check with your lumber dealer before going to HD.

Oh and grab a can of spray can shellac to seal the notts real quick before painting.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm doing a 10% adder to materials cost to cover a trip to the lumberyard, fuel, etc. Will that cover costs there? I think it will. My estimate is 10.5 hours for the table, 13.5 for the buffet. I think the lower framework of the buffet could actually add another couple hours, now that I think about that. And I'm offering it "Not to Exceed," so if it takes me longer, I eat the hours…


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## CL810

You are my hero, I am awestruck!



> Wife parks in the driveway now.
> 
> - Hammerthumb


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## DanKrager

Smitty, by the time the dust all settles around this, I'd challenge anyone to make that pair inside of 40 hours including changes, designing, changes, getting materials, more changes, finish, delivery etc. Did I mention changes? On commission pieces you have to count EVERYTHING, like you were mentioning. If it's a hobby, then you can absorb OH costs.

I should speak. I'm working on a commission of 3 interior passage doors that I expect to eat about $250 of cost if I count my labor and the shaper cutters required. The site is 1 1/2 hours away, and will involve two trips. I'm cutting down three 36" F&P doors just to get the materials which I can't seem to buy anywhere anymore. But it is also for a good friend who wants to restore an old house a bit and can't really afford to do so.

I wish you luck. Keep track of your time…it will be useful information. I have a complex system for doing that and using the information to improve estimates on the next item, even if different. Keep us posted.
DanK
edit: I bet you've already got some hours in it just thinking about it, talking it over with the client, and asking here!


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## jmartel

> You are my hero, I am awestruck!
> 
> - CL810


Just gotta put your foot down early. My jeep doesn't even fit in my garage. The workbench on the back wall won't allow it to park inside without the front end sticking out past the doorway. It comes in to do oil changes on a level surface (driveway is sloped), and then as soon as it's done, it goes right back outside.


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## Hammerthumb

Dan's and my estimates are pretty close. Well exactly close. I figured 10 for the table and 30 for the sideboard. The table might take a little longer but the sideboard might take less.

Thanks Andy. Guess I gotta be someone's hero!


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## mochoa

My approach on charging (with limited experience) is, first do I want or have the time to make it, then I look at how much I will make after materials. If its enough to buy a nice new tool I want then sweet! Its hard to count hours when your not a pro and not as fast. I'm enjoying the process so If I don't make much per hours its cool.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

*Sigh*

It saddens me to think about not trying to do this. Really. And if it's 40 hours, there's always the possibility they will say 'no' and the chance to learn passes by.

Time to rationalize, perhaps. Meaning, it is a hobby. A very good friend once told me a hobby at least is fun or makes you money. Ideally both. Well, no one has ever considered paying me to play a round of golf, so getting any $ reward for shop time just may be worth it. My pace, my projects, no one to blame but myself. Think i'll go with 10 and 17.5 and see what happens. Buy one drawer, get two free? 

Thanks for all the input. Oh, and quotes are free, too. For now, anyway.

EDIT: Sounds a lot like what Mos offered!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> by the way, I ve been making a lot of painted pine furniture lately. I was getting 1×12" s at HD for roughly $2.50 a bf which isn t bad I found out that my lumber dealer sells 1×12" in 16 lengths for about $1/bf. Some of it is pretty gnarly but you can find some decent boards, and for painted furniture you cant beat that.
> 
> Just saying Smitty, check with your lumber dealer before going to HD.
> 
> Oh and grab a can of spray can shellac to seal the notts real quick before painting.
> 
> - Mauricio


Good stuff, thanks Maur!


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## Hammerthumb

Smitty - are you hand cutting the DTs? Full or HB? Hand cutting HBs takes a lot more time.


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## Buckethead

Regarding first commissioned pieces: a man once said to me, don't expect others to pay for your learning curve. This includes learning that time spent actually doing a build might not even be half the time you spend on the piece, as well as learning that competing against overseas furniture manufacturers may not be worthwhile.

I like your late post, Smitty. It's a chance to learn, add value for a client, and make a few duckets for doing something you love to do. (Earning a few duckets might actually make it less enjoyable.)

Interpreting a clients instructions can be harrowing at times, depending on their ability to envision dimensions, colors, wood grains, etc.


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## CL810

I read on one of the forums that a furniture maker always asked how much the client had budgeted for the work. He said not everyone would answer but when they did it sure helped on many levels.

Plus one to Buckets comments.


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## mochoa

I agree Bucket, you cant charge for all your hours. Also agree with Clayton, if they aren't willing to pay a lot… pocket screws… and definitely no DT's unless you just felt like doing them and had the time. Otherwise I'd give them rabbets with dowels which is just about as strong an looks good.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Regarding first commissioned pieces: a man once said to me, don t expect others to pay for your learning curve.
> 
> - Buckethead


I like that very much, too. It is consistent with my approach to this (possible) task as well. Thanks, Bucket. I've looked at some on-line examples, Andy, and have an idea what they'd pay for solid wood examples from places like Ashley Furniture. I'm in the ball park, but the variations are truly endless so it's not apples-to-apples.

EDIT: I really don't want to buy a Kreg jig…


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## mochoa

LOL, Harbor Freight has a nice pocket hole jig that is cheaper and many say is better. LOL. just kidding.

I think this is a nice combination of items to make. I think you will make pretty good money on the table vs. how long it will take to make, the second piece will be less profitable but they will both balance out.

I'm doing a commission job now (a challenging frame and panel desk). The example came from a custom shop in town. I wrote them and asked how much, they said $1400, I asked my friend/client for $1200 and told her I'd make it better then they would (which I will). I have no idea how long it will take me. I just have to beat their estimate of 6mo. I'm slow but I think I can beat that.

I get a modest table saw upgrade out of it, have fun in the shop, and make something nice for a friend who is supper excited about it. win-win. Time is not that important (fortunately the friend also agrees).


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## CL810

I do have a keg jig I bought early on and the problem with them is pocket hole joinery is easy and it works; which makes it very seductive. For cabinet framing it's hard to beat.


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## ShaneA

Smitty…with the Kreg jig just sounds funny. I have one, and in the right application, it is very useful.


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## jmartel

> EDIT: I really don t want to buy a Kreg jig…
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


So don't. Where would you want to use it? There's plenty of joints that are quick and easy to do that don't require a kreg jig. I would think you could use dowels anywhere a kreg jig would be. Making a dowel jig would be easy as well, just need metal bushings.

For me, nothing with Pocket Screws leaves the shop. I'll use it for shop cabinets and stuff, but not for anything that is in my house or going out to someone else.


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## Buckethead

I'm not strictly opposed to pocket screws. A time and place for everything.

If the client wants less cost, and doesn't care one bit about joinery, then so be it. I suspect that custom build clients might be just a bit more particular though.

First commission? I think I might suggest pinned tenons, dovetails, and other visible types of joinery. Those are the things I like the most, and would love to see my handiwork featured.


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## BigRedKnothead

All kinds of good stuff today. Smitty, a few of my centavos:

- It's really tough estimating somebody else's build time. We're all different. I'd generally say in the neighborhood 30 hours for the table and sideboard. But man, there are a LOT of time saving attributes you are describing: Legs already made, no milling of lumber, pocket screws. All huge time savers.

- Rustic stuff goes a lot faster than "fine furniture." I learned that this winter when I made that barn wood dining table: 








Subtract out the fancy dovetailed breadboards and I can make that table in a long day (withstanding finish)

- I get my pine from a millwork shop. They have the widest, clearest, and cheapest pine around here.

- Bucket is right about not being able to charge others for our learning curve imo. I underestimated my time and lost my booty on some of my early pieces. We as hobbyists have the "luxury" of not needing this cash to feed our families. So, if you go over on hours, are you gonna be bummed and regret doing it? That's what you have to decide. 
For me, I've caught myself grumbling a few times when that happened, but…. the people were always happy with the piece. Then, I used the money to reward myself or my wife. No regrets.

Hope we've all helped a little. Post up some progress if you end up doing it


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## BigRedKnothead

> You are my hero, I am awestruck!
> 
> Wife parks in the driveway now.
> 
> - Hammerthumb
> 
> - CL810


Heather's pretty good about parking in the driveway too. Paid for it yesterday though. Hmmm son, the windshield is spidered…..and there's a perfect imprint of a basketball in the dirt? Raising kids is expensive.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Estimate submitted this AM. Thank you to all the offered input, the sanity check of hours as well as the build discussions were very helpful setting a confidence factor to my approach. We'll see if they choke at it, or decide to proceed. I put what I think is a low hourly rate against the work, as well as more of a 'target hours' total. Stupid? Nope, doing it 'eyes wide open' this time; gotta learn / take a risk sometime!


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## theoldfart

Smitty, watching your progress closely. Getting my first $ project soon, a dining table refinish. I shall be forced to pick up a scrapper plane to facilitate efficiency.


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## BigRedKnothead

^Yes, I'd say a scraping plane is totally justifiable Kevin;-)

Smitty- hope it works out as it should. You post reminded me that I now tell folks early on how long it takes me to make said piece. Because, the vast majority of people have no idea how long handmade goods take. One couple honestly thought I could make a dining set in a weekend or two…..lol. Anyway, they seem less shocked at the price when they have an idea of the hours involved.

We talked about bandsaws a bit on here. I should know by now that if I even have an inkling that my bandsaw bearings or blade need replaced…..they DO! Bearings are cheap, blades are not as much….but what a difference

This time I tried a Supercut " thin resaw blade with carbide impregnated teeth." Time with tell if the little bit of carbide will help the longevity. However, out of the package, and with the first few cuts I've made….. it's hands down the best blade I've had on my saw. Plus, looks like a small company in Idaho and I always like supporting such places.

Maybe I'm just having the "eureka" moment many have had with woodslicer blades. I have not tried those, but this puts my old timberwolf and other brands I've had to shame. Hate to give a glowing review this early on, but I'm happy that I might not dread resawing as much from now on.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Kevin, refinishing a DR table would be a whole 'nother challenge. I don't know enough about fine finishing to credibly attempt such a job. Zero shellac, french polish, spraying creds here. I'd reach out to bhog, he's a finishing gawd compared to me.


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## mochoa

I've been wanting to try the Michael Fortune specials. 1/2" 3tpi Skip tooth. They are good and cheap from his Canadian supplier. I'm due for a new blade so I may check them out.

I tried sharpening my Olson blade with eze lap diamond hones, it didn't go so well. That's what I get for being a cheap aas.


----------



## ToddJB

Red, specifically which blade did you get and what did it run you? I need some blades badly.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, thanks for the affirmation.

Smitty, I intend to bleed this place dry for info.

On another note, just had a birthday diner with my Mom.. 94!
Her baby sister is 90 and she chugged a beer before dinner. Brought them both home and they both fell asleep.

Not particularly enthralled with Florida, something like 87 degrees here. I need snow.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya know Maur, I was hoping to see a sharpening option on Supercuts website, but didn't. I know some people sharpen their own bandsaw blades, but I can pretty much guarantee there is now way I could get this blade back to as sharp as new. I guess they're just more "disposable" than tablesaw blades.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Congrats to mom on the birthday!

No snow here OF. Just tee shirt and shorts weather (don't tell Stef). It's actually overcast and about 75deg. Perfect for golf. To bad I have to work.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, specifically which blade did you get and what did it run you? I need some blades badly.
> 
> - ToddJB


I bought the blade from LV during their free shipping event:
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=30071&cat=1,41036,41037

It ran $57. I didn't know the brand name and LV doesn't mention it. After some research you can buy their blades on amazon or direct from Supercut. Also, they offer a regular carbon blade (no carbide) that runs cheaper I'm sure. Give Supercut a call.


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## DanKrager

I had an old 1" blade on the big bandsaw that was not sharp anymore. Being more of a cheapskate than Mos, I had nothing to lose trying to sharpen it, so I put a diamond cylinder bit (one that matched the gullet) in the Dremel and started in, carefully running down the back of one tooth into the gullet until the face of the next tooth just showed up sharp. Holding the Dremel in a straight horizontal position perpendicular to the blade gave me a pretty good approximation of a rip form and perhaps added just a smidgen of rake. When I FINALLY (there are a LOT of teeth on a 157" blade even at 3 TPI) finished and put an 8" board (resaw) through it, I was silly with how easily it cut. Have no idea what brand, but it has held up quite well even resawing 12" of this hedge without complaining.

DanK


----------



## ToddJB

That's great info. Thanks, Red and Dan.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

No downpayment yet, but here's the reaction to the proposal I sent: "They are very excited you agreed to do this."

Let the second guessing begin.  I'm excited!


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## jmartel

Good luck, Smitty. Post updates.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

thx, will do. but remember, blogging the builds are unbillable hours, so I'll have to keep it efficient.


----------



## fatandy2003

Maybe unbillable, but you could write it off as advertisement for future commissions….


----------



## daddywoofdawg

It brings up the fact some spend alot of time making machine perfect,then turning around and distressing it and making it handmade.


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## Buckethead

Smitty, I'm thinking a blog of your first commissioned build is a must. You wouldn't need to share it, but to have a photo essay of it for future reference would be irreplaceable. I know when I build things, I don't have the patience, or a photogenic workspace, but each new build I say I'll do better about documenting, and never do. I can't go back in time to snap progress photos.


----------



## terryR

Red, thanks for mentioning those BS blades…time for a new one here. I've been using 1/2" WoodSlicer blades for years…love them for $40! Want to try carbide for re-sawing expensive exotics.

DanK, would love to see you Dremel tip. Seems that quality steel should be re-sharpened? Glad I've been saving my spent blades…need to try! Only running a 106" blade…cannot be that many teeth! 

Smitty, best of luck! I'm only selling baskets and spoons, but most folks have no idea how much time it takes to make something purty.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well alright Smitty. Just give yourself a refresher on the Zen Rules of Woodworking and enjoy the ride. If nothing else, post whatever you get with your hobby money when it's done

Today I installed the pocket hangers on the back of the display shelf. 









Then I waxed and glued it up. Project post when I get a chance. 









-
I STILL haven't been able to finalize a dining set design with my aunt and uncle, so…. I think I'll pick up where I left off on the outdoor table and Adirondack chairs I started last fall.


----------



## WhoMe

I read these last few pages about Smittys quoting process with interest. 
I recently did a cabinet for a client and I knew going in that I would not be billing for my learning hours. I just charged for materials and about half the hours I spent on the cabinet. I tried to keep track but I know what I had written down was not complete. I did learn a lot and would be much more accurate on another cabinet estimate. 
BUT, the client was EXTREMELY happy and continues to let me know almost 9 months later. It was done to their specs including full insulation on the back wall to prevent heat from the house wall from entering the cabinet. The cabinet I did was replacing a dishwasher I removed. It is the one in the center with the tall doors. Not bad matching a 50+ year old kitchen. 









And this is not a piece of furniture but the beginning of something that will allow me to build more furniture. It also is a result from my accident 5 weeks ago from the previous said tool that will be going up for sale locally really soon.

And so it begins. The first several boxes. More to follow when a truck and pallet jack are available. I'm finally getting excited although the shop is not ready…..


----------



## johnstoneb

Ted is getting more creative all the time.


----------



## CL810

Mike you are in for a treat putting the SS together. Best manuals I've ever seen.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mike- of course we're sorry about your accident… yet excited for the new "safer" saw. I'd be doing the same thing.

Evidently Sawstop's sales are equaling all the the other TS makers combined.


----------



## WhoMe

Cl810, yep, I know. Awesome manuals. Have put together an industrial and jobsite saws at work and the manuals and parts packaging are the best I have seen too. Too bad many companies don't do half this good.
Red, it's been 5 weeks and things are healing well. Nerve damage is going to take the longest. Unfortunately my brain fart and accident happened, and like you said the safer saw will make trying to cut the ends off my fingers off nearly impossible. Now to find time to complete the new electrical and make room for the rest of the saw…


----------



## Mahdeew

This is a little longer than it needs to be but, it shows you how to sharpen your band saw blade on a grinding wheel.


----------



## mochoa

wow, cool video, hard to believe the difference in cut speed after he sharpened it.


----------



## CL810

Thanks for the link, jinx. I'll spend 39 minutes to pocket $30.


----------



## SASmith

I do something similar to the above video to sharpen my sawmill bands.
I have a 1" wide grinding wheel mounted in an old RAS. I shaped the edge of the wheel to the profile of the gullet with a diamond dressing tool. I made an indexer that I added to the RAS. Fairly quick and accurate.
I'd say a 12' band takes about 10-15 minutes with this setup. Then another 10-15 minutes to set all the teeth.
These bands have a tooth every 7/8" of an inch so it is not as many teeth as one might think.


----------



## Mahdeew

Welcome. I used his method but instead of doing one tooth at a time, I placed the blade so it would barely touch the stone and just pulled the band towards me. It took less than 2 minutes to do, but was not very sharp as I was doing it by hand. I plan on making a jig that can keep the blade stationary while pulling the band to sharpen it evenly. Hope someone beat me to it as I have a long "wana do that" list.


----------



## jmartel

Red, how's the wife like her display shelves now? I'm assuming it's hung up at this point since it only needed waxing yesterday.


----------



## lateralus819

Nice gap on the foot Red, noobie…sheesh.

J/k looks great brother. Nice job!


----------



## terryR

> This is a little longer than it needs to be but, it shows you how to sharpen your band saw blade on a grinding wheel.
> 
> - mrjinx007


Nice link. Sure seems like a power chainsaw sharpener would make a nice start for a jig, too?
Gotta keep looking on youTube…

mike, Congrats on the SS! Keep healin'


----------



## Mean_Dean

Ok Guys,

Here is the G&G clock I mentioned a few weeks ago. It is now ready for staining.


















I'm going to use Darrell Peart's/Woodwhisper staining/finishing schedule, which calls for raising the grain, and sanding it back, repeated twice, then staining.

I'll be using water-based stain, and am concerned that even after the above procedure, the stain could raise the grain. Does anyone have experience with water-based stains? I've used only oil-based stains to this point.


----------



## jmartel

That's a nice looking clock. No advise on the stains. I don't use them and I probably won't really ever get into a habit of using them.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, how s the wife like her display shelves now? I m assuming it s hung up at this point since it only needed waxing yesterday.
> 
> - jmartel


Bam!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Handsome clock Dean. I love G&G…but my wife doesn't….Doh! Here only request with the tea shelf, "no ebony plugs." lol



> Nice gap on the foot Red, noobie…sheesh.
> 
> J/k looks great brother. Nice job!
> 
> - lateralus819


Oh you can bet I obsessed about getting the perfect fit for those column caps on the front and sides. I don't freak out about the backside of pieces though. Even my OCD has limits.


----------



## jmartel

Funny, I just bought a square punch from LV on my last order specifically to do plugs on picture frames and an upcoming bookcase build. I likely won't use Ebony because it's so damn expensive and the whole illegal trade of it, but blackwood looks nearly the same and is much cheaper.


----------



## Mean_Dean

> Handsome clock Dean. I love G&G…but my wife doesn t….Doh! Here only request with the tea shelf, "no ebony plugs." lol
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Thanks, Big Red One! Any suggestions on the water-based stain?


----------



## Iguana

Dean, what are you going to top coat it with?


----------



## Mean_Dean

Mark, the finishing schedule calls for wiping varnish.

I'm just concerned that even after raising the grain and sanding it back, twice, that the water-based stain is going to leave a bit of a rough surface. Which may not be a problem with the wiping varnish, as I sand between coats to get it glass smooth. I'm just wanting to know if anyone who's used water-based stain has experience with it raising the grain, after the above raising/sanding procedure.


----------



## DanKrager

Mean_Dean, in my experience some time ago, so things may have changed, the water based stuff quickly dropped off my finishing schedule. Water based top coats of polyurethane have held up well. But the undercoats were problematic for the reasons you are worried about. The problem with sanding a stain coat is that you can't help sanding through the color. If you put on a sealer to hold the grain down, then then color doesn't seem to work right. So…I went to aniline dye powders dissolved in alcohol or acetone. A glaze coat richly deepens the color, and then you can think about top coats.

You could use colored oil from the start, perhaps even coloring your own oil with powdered dye. I've not done that, but that's how colored oils are made…sometimes pigment is added for "filler". 
DanK 
Edit: read wiping varnish in addition to oil.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dean- I've used water with transtint. It did raise the grain the first time. But you usually do two coats to get the effect. Dark first, then lighter. i didn't really notice any issues when applying the varnish. The first coat of varnish is always the roughest. Gets smoother each time with sanding and reapplication.

But, if your concerned, you could use DNA instead of water…as DanK suggested. Or, you can use a coat of zinnser sealcoat (dewaxed shellac) to seal the wood and water-based stain.

Sketching and researching designs for outdoor furniture. On to the next build!


----------



## WhoMe

Red, that is really nice. I bet the wifey is way happy with that display. 
I swear, you are one of the fastest woodworkers here. I see you start something and before I know it, the project is finished, you have blogged about it and the recipient is enjoying it.


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## Hammerthumb

He's really a machine. He was developed as an upgrade of the 6million Dollar Man


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## BigRedKnothead

Thanks fellers. However, I think the proper description is a "workaholic with no social life" lol.

In the spirit of St. Patrick's day, I figured I would post an old Irish prayer: "May those who love us, love us; and those who don't love us, may God turn their hearts; and if he doesn't turn their hearts hearts, may he turn their ankles so we'll know them by their limping." Amen?


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## terryR

Amen.


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## WhoMe

O, the vision of all the limping people around me. But I would just think they were ask klutzy…. Lol


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## Mean_Dean

> Dean- I ve used water with transtint. It did raise the grain the first time. But you usually do two coats to get the effect. Dark first, then lighter. i didn t really notice any issues when applying the varnish. The first coat of varnish is always the roughest. Gets smoother each time with sanding and reapplication.
> 
> But, if your concerned, you could use DNA instead of water…as DanK suggested. Or, you can use a coat of zinnser sealcoat (dewaxed shellac) to seal the wood and water-based stain.
> 
> Sketching and researching designs for outdoor furniture. On to the next build!
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Thanks Big Red One!

I've made a couple of test boards, one with the ebony-colored plugs, to test the finishing schedule on. I've wetted one board and sanded back, twice, and neither cycle seems to have raised the grain much.

When I built my Morris chair, the QSWO seemed really rough after wetting, so I was expecting this on the mahogany. But maybe the two woods react differently-or I just got lucky with the mahogany!


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## BigRedKnothead

White oak patio furniture set, some assembly required. Yes I do wear that little pink crown sometimes when I'm sad.









Oak babble: Lotta people don't realize that white oak is rot-resistant (outdoor safe), while red oak is not. For example, the USS Constitution and well as the vikings vessels were all made of white oak. This classic timber possesses a natural tannin that fills the pores and protects it. This is the same tannin that leather tanneries extract from white oak bark to "tan" leather. Been done that way since the middle ages. End oak lesson.

On my way to purchase the oak, I saw this….









First time ever. I consider it an omen.


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## lateralus819

Oh damn. There is a stickley store an hour south of me. I will have to go check it out!

I wonder if they're made by hand or what?


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## BigRedKnothead

Lat- The Stickley factory is much like the modern Moser. There's more handwork involved than any of your imported crap, but you can also bet there is plenty of CNC involved to aid the efficiency.

Cheesy old Stickley video


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## brocksamson

bigredknothead would you happen to know if restoration hardwares wooden furniture such as tables and dressers are built in china? i know they definitely changed to china for their upholstery products and never really revealed it to the public.


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## BigRedKnothead

Sorry Brock, I don't. I don't know much about that company.

Got most the white oak milled up, starting on the outdoor table. Also gonna work in some of that Ipe I've got crammed under my tablesaw.


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## Buckethead

I'm guessing you know already, Red, but Ipe works better using low speeds on routers, drills etc. I'm not aware of variable speed TS or chop saws, but the blades and bits work better at low speeds. Less heat, it was explained to me.

I'm sitting on some pieces too, and thinking about incorporating sliding dovetail joinery. (Using the router… Not hand tools)


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## BigRedKnothead

Good call bucket. I know the stiff is pretty wicked….so my goal is to "work it" as little as possible…lol. We'll see how that works out.


----------



## theoldfart

And I quote" I know the stiff is pretty wicked" oh really Red?

Well I guess your gonna work it no matter what we think! ;-)


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## jmartel

Is it worth it, let me work it
I put my thing down flip it and reverse it.


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## BigRedKnothead

Ha! "stuff" not "stiff"....funny typo.

I cut that Ipe to length and milled tenons(dado blade) to go in grooves yet to be milled in the white oak frame. That's about all I need to work that Ipe


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## Buckethead

That's great design, Red. Perfect for the glue resistant Ipe.


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## Mean_Dean

I've used Ipe on some Adirondack chairs, and man is it hard-like cutting concrete! And that green sawdust smelled like hell….........!

On the other hand, I used a piece of Ipe as a predator guard on the birdhouse in the backyard. A woodpecker had destroyed the previous house-I'd love to see him try to peck through that stuff!


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## ToddJB

Red, in a design like that do you dado the full length of the cross member? If so do you just glue with a temporary spacer then remove it or do you fill the dado gap somehow?


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## BigRedKnothead

> That s great design, Red. Perfect for the glue resistant Ipe.
> 
> - Buckethead


Thanks bud. I had some sketeches from last fall, all with an Asian flair. The rest I designed in my head during my lumber run the other day. Had to go straight in my shop and sketch it out before I forgot;-)



> Red, in a design like that do you dado the full length of the cross member? If so do you just glue with a temporary spacer then remove it or do you fill the dado gap somehow?
> 
> - ToddJB


Well, I could do individual mortises for each piece of Ipe….but I don't think it's worth the effort. I'm just gonna glue oak spacers in. They'll be captive by the shoulders on the Ipe anyway.

Next I need to put tapers on the white oak frame. With each piece of this outdoor set I'm trying to avoid truly horizontal surfaces. Standing water is no friend of wood.

I didn't show it previously, but the oak frame is all mortise and tenon. I'll glue and possibly drawbore each of those joints.


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## ToddJB

Yep. That makes sense. Thanks


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## BroncoBrian

> A cherry trundle bed for one of my sons is the current project. He likes the subtle arches I drew in the plans, and is happy with the design. That s what counts I guess. So far I have the footboard completed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just found this thread, beautiful work!
> 
> - pintodeluxe


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## BigRedKnothead

Still crankin on the patio table. Milled grooves for the tenons on the Ipe slats with a router. I don't have a good plunge router, so I drilled a slightly larger hole on each of my stopped groove and got it started that way. Of course, don't turn the router on until you have it in place;-0










Work smart, not hard. With the frame already made, it would be tough to mill the Ipe slats exactly the length I need….tenons and all. My solution? I milled the ipe slats just a tad long. Then….see the crosspiece in the middle?








I just took small passes on that jointer with that center piece til both sides of the slats fit like a charm.

Now I'm figuring out the spacing for the slats and gluing in little spacers. 









The glueup will be a little involved. My wife hates it when I call her out there for stressful glueups…lol.


----------



## lateralus819

Words start flyin eh Red? Been there done that. I freakout lol.


----------



## terryR

^Huh?
Youz guyz allow the wife in your shop?


----------



## Buckethead

All good tips, Red. You're giving it away for free!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I've been cruising on my Asian inspired patio table. Time to update. I get top glued up without much trouble. There are a ton of glued joints, so I had to work fast. Sometimes I'm apathetic about doing a thorough dry fit…but not this time. That could have been a nightmare. 









I keep one long ol' pipe clamp around for these situations. Clamp one side, drill and peg with dowels….move to the other side.

You may remember I made the legs last fall, but decided to hold off on this set til spring. Here's the wifey trying out a spokeshave….on MY curvy legs.










So, with legs in place, I milled up stock for the aprons. It's really just some thinner rips off large boards. I've seen this two-piece style of aprons on Japanese tables….and I dig 'em. 








I bored the mortises with my mortising machine. Well, as best I could. The knotty white oak was problematic. Plus, it would have been easier to do before I put the curves on the legs. They didn't like to lay flat.

Now she's dry fit. I still have a few accents I want to add, but I should be gluing and peggin soon. Who wants to help flip it off my bench








Matching benches and chairs are up next.


----------



## ToddJB

You buy, I'll fly.


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## jmartel

All I'm hearing, is that Red's wife shaved his legs.


----------



## leopard887

Nice work!


----------



## j1212t

Nicely done Red, good on you for being a true man and letting your wife shave your legs!


----------



## terryR

Awesome, Red. Sure wish you had room for Todd and I to move in and help…err…learn!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Never follow an act with kids, animals or Red's work, right? Oh well, no one ever accused me of having a great deal of sense.

Build well underway, hours in check so far as well. Holding itself off the floor (very rough -with an emphasis on very rough- dry fit). Just wanted to see some vertical, you know?










The top in clamps:










Scope may be expanding to include a bench as well…


----------



## CL810

Smitty, my advice is don't try to top Red's leg shaving. Other then that you have the stage sir!

Shaping up to look as you described it - good start.


----------



## theoldfart

Wow Smitty, and all done with pocket screws . Nice progress. What style bench do you have in mind?


----------



## PhillipRCW

I know this is a no go in most of the forums I have seen, but what do y'all think of the mixed media furniture coming out more and more? I love a lot of the fine woodworking items, but I tend to be more attracted to the concrete and wood tables, or reclaimed woods and steel frames? Or even the wood and glass artistic styled tables. Has anyone else seen more of an increase of that in your areas? What do y'all think of it?


----------



## JayT

I can't stand mixed media pieces.


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## jmartel

> I know this is a no go in most of the forums I have seen, but what do y all think of the mixed media furniture coming out more and more? I love a lot of the fine woodworking items, but I tend to be more attracted to the concrete and wood tables, or reclaimed woods and steel frames? Or even the wood and glass artistic styled tables. Has anyone else seen more of an increase of that in your areas? What do y all think of it?
> 
> - PhillipRCW


I generally don't care for it, but a lot of people do. If you like it, rock on.


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## Mean_Dean

Ok, not on the production schedule of Big Red One, but here are a couple of update photos:

This is the G&G clock I've been working on. This is after staining, and 7 coats of wiping varnish. (Home brewed wiping varnish, at 1:1 poly/mineral spirits. In retrospect, could have gone 2:1 poly/mineral spirits…......)










Next are two wall sconces to hold candles, for alongside the fireplace mantel.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Got some work to do.


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## ToddJB

Nice Smitty. I like the chamfered look of the glued up boards. Nice touch for making it look old. That was done pre-glueup?


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## ToddJB

Dean, that clock looks like a good bit of labor. Looking great.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Todd, I'm actually torn that it's a screw up. The edges of the 2×6s I jointed just fine, but because I didn't remove the chamfer, there are visible lines of solid glue down deep. So when I stain, they'll of course stay visible.

The jack plane is being used to bring the depth of the chamfer. Just about there, and now the clock is ticking to get the top attached to the frame so it stays flat / doesn't curl on me. It's construction lumber, after all.


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## ToddJB

Ah. What about a V gouge or something to clean the glue and add dome variations to the chamfers? If the stain , or whatever, gets down in there to fresh wood it'll darken up and give a great affect.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sounds like a job for a router.


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## DanKrager

Smitty, you're keeping track of your time, right?

DanK


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## Mean_Dean

Thanks, Todd!

So, after all that work, I install the clock mechanism, only to find out it doesn't work…....... It seems like there's too much internal friction, as the hands are difficult to move. Every other clock mechanism I've had, the hands turn easily. So, tomorrow, I'll call the company and ask for a replacement.

So, you move the ball all the way down to the 1-inch line, and can't quite get the ball in the endzone…..........!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Dan, yes I am. Things on the table are tracking in my favor so far. This little exercise is doing it's part to force me into more productive and purposeful action when I'm in the shop, which is good. Today I'll do assy of table frame, then priming. Want a coat or two of paint on it before fixing it to the top, which in turn will be stained. Should be straightforward, but even with that it's not likely I have enough time 'on clock' vs. what it'll take to apply all finishes. I'm ahead in a couple other areas, though, so it's good.

Then, on to the buffet.


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## jmartel

> So, you move the ball all the way down to the 1-inch line, and can t quite get the ball in the endzone…..........!
> 
> - Mean_Dean


Kind of like this year's Superbowl? Yeah, we're still a little bitter about that.


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## jmartel

For anyone interested, the newest issue (June I think?) of FWW has an awesome Craftsman sideboard and a pretty cool walnut nightstand in there. One of the better issues in the last few years that I've read from them.


----------



## TravisH

> For anyone interested, the newest issue (June I think?) of FWW has an awesome Craftsman sideboard and a pretty cool walnut nightstand in there. One of the better issues in the last few years that I ve read from them.
> 
> - jmartel


Have to agree was one of those that got pulled out and sits with the short stack of favorites.


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## Mean_Dean

> So, you move the ball all the way down to the 1-inch line, and can t quite get the ball in the endzone…..........!
> 
> - Mean_Dean
> 
> Kind of like this year s Superbowl? Yeah, we re still a little bitter about that.
> 
> - jmartel


Yeah, it was more like Seattle lost it, than New England won it.


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## 489tad

Pine hutch glue up.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Dan, that looks awesome. A fine shop shot!


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## BigRedKnothead

Dig all the progress shots fellas.

Bummer about the clock Dean. I've yet to make one, but I've wondered if they're fickle.

I've been traveling for work of late. Hoping to get some shop time in the morning.


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## 489tad

Thanks Smitty. I should show you the right, left and behind of that shot. Its a disaster.


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## jmartel

Just got asked to bid on this by a friend. Huge build, but would allow me to buy a new hybrid tablesaw and some other things that I want.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Oh, my. Way, way, way past my ability. I shall watch, and learn.


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## jmartel

Yeah, it's going to definitely be out of my comfort zone. But, I think I can make it work at this point. Especially if I can buy pre-finished plywood in the color they want. Local shop only carries it in Birch and Maple, but you can order it in other species. Really, it's just plywood casing with trim, and inset doors. Just the scale of the thing is what will be the most difficult stuff.

But like I said, I'll be able to get a new tablesaw from it, and potentially either a jointer as well, or a new paintjob and some bits for the motorcycle.


----------



## DanKrager

Jambitious, that's gonna be HUGE! It's gonna take a lot of space to build this. I see six major pieces fitted together. If shop and doorways can handle it, four pieces, but you'll need two people to help carry. It will help that it's not built in, but free standing. That means the ends and top have to be finished, so there's more work there than meets the eye if you can't use prefinished stuff. I'm not sure about using prefinished stuff because I've never done it. Order extra if you use it, because the next batch won't be the same color…

Interesting. Keep us posted please, and remember to keep track of your hours. You'll thank yourself on the next project. 
DanK


----------



## jmartel

I hadn't even noticed that it was 6 pieces. Good catch, as that makes it quite a bit easier. I haven't gone too far into the details yet on it. It was just a quick email that he sent over last night. Apparently the set from Pottery Barn is all MDF (yuck) and still costs $3200 plus tax. A quick guestimate looking at the picture looks like ~$1000 in materials in it. I figure I can easily save him roughly $1000 after tax (9.5% here in Seattle, ouch) and still make some good money from it.

I'm not 100% sold on buying prefinished ply though. I feel like the finish would get messed up when working on it. So, likely not going to go that route.

Might be worth buying the grizz tracksaw just for this project, too.


----------



## DanKrager

JMart, a track saw is a good idea for any panel work. Dragging the panel around over a table saw is almost sure to damage it. The prefinished stuff should come with a protective film on it that you peel off and clean after assembly. If it doesn't, you can apply it yourself, but it's extra cost and work. Worth it though.

IMHO you are being very conservative in your estimates. Watch Smitty carefully… The devil is in the details!

DanK


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## ToddJB

Dan, do you think he's conservative on materials or hours?


----------



## jmartel

I'm assuming materials since I didn't say anything about projected time to make. And conservative good? I'm conservatively assuming ~$130/sheet for good quality 3/4 ply. Don't know for certain price until I pin down a species.

And I know it'll be more complicated than just assembling some ply boxes and throwing doors on it. Going to take lots of fitting to make it all look nice. I think I can do it, though.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

No teacher quite like experience.

I have a good handle on table making with construction-grade wood right now, with no risk of blowing material $s at the moment. Finishing time (sanding multiple times, priming, staining / painting, etc) is off though. Overall, the total quote is still holding up well.

Also being quite literal to measure 'productive time' vs. shop time. We all know there is a difference. To do this profitably, over the long haul, I'd have to vastly improve my productivity.  But then, occasional profit is good too.

I'm learning a lot. And, they want to add a bench build (for the farm table) to the scope.


----------



## DanKrager

Good on you Smitty. Do what you can to "blur the line"...or move it….the line where the remodeling stops.

DanK


----------



## ShaneA

The prefinished stuff I get here does not have a protective film on it, and it definitely can be scratched up. Plus using a prefinished ply that has been "stained" may make getting the finish/sheen on the hardwood parts difficult to match. Heck, just getting the finish the same from any ply to hardwood edging can be a challenge, and a potential danger area for the non pro finisher. Would you be installing and delivering too?


----------



## jmartel

Yes to install and delivery. I'd be renting a uhaul trailer. Lots of moving blankets and strapping things down. Luckily, it's a standalone, so it will be significantly easier than built-ins. I could build it in 6 different pieces. The upper open shelving and top bridge could be assembled on the ground, and then lifted on top of the exterior cases/lower portion.

I've already decided against using cherry, just because it darkens so dramatically, and I have no idea what cherry ply would do. That picture has what they call a Mahogany stain on it, and my local shop sells a Phillipine Mahogany ply (and solid wood) that would probably work well. They also carry Khaya and Sapele plys as well. EDIT: $125/sheet for quartersawn Sapele/Khaya ply with ribbon stripe, $110 for plain. So better than I thought.

I think I've decided against pre-finished. Just an idea I had to make it easier, but the more I thought about it, the less appealing it was. It makes sense for interiors of kitchen cabinets where you only need one good face. Use the other one for contact on all machine faces.

I built a painted built-in entryway system before for a friend. Way undercharged them for it. Turned out decent, and it looks just fine in place now, but I learned some things on what not to do. So, this isn't my first large scale project. Most importantly, I learned that I hated painting wood and it's a lot more work to get it to look nice.


----------



## Iguana

If that Phillipine Mahogany (aka lauan) plywood is anything like the lauan ply my supplier stocks, it is only suitable for shop-grade projects, cabinet backs and drawer bottoms.

I think your estimate on materials is reasonable. If you're thinking about $2500 overall price, I think you might be underpaying yourself.


----------



## jmartel

Right. I realized that after calling up the supplier. Plus, they flat out told me that. I'll likely go with Khaya or Sapele. Both are about the same price and significantly better than the Phillipine. Both come in flat or quartersawn.

And the price is because it's for a friend that helps me out a lot. I mostly just care that it's enough to buy me some new tools and stuff for the motorcycle. If it wasn't a friend, then I'd charge more. Probably about what the Pottery Barn one costs, but would be better constructed.


----------



## jmartel

Well dang. Looks like my initial guess was pretty accurate. 6 sheets of 3/4 ply, and 2 sheets of 1/4" ply. Both of which are picked based off of grain orientation rather than maximium yield. Comes to $990 for the ply assuming $125/sheet for the 3/4 and $110 for 1/4. Add in a conservative $200 for 4 pairs of hinges, solid wood trim, fasteners, shelf support hardware, finish, and sandpaper. So, all in for $1200, plus a nominal $20 to rent a trailer for the day to bring it over.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I like the ambition Jbusy. Dats how I gots my toys



> Also being quite literal to measure productive time vs. shop time. We all know there is a difference. To do this profitably, over the long haul, I d have to vastly improve my productivity.  But then, occasional profit is good too.
> 
> I m learning a lot. And, they want to add a bench build (for the farm table) to the scope.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I wrestle with that balance Smitty. I've set up my processes for maximum productivity, but sometimes I really need to slow down and enjoy myself. Hand tools help with that.

Yesterday I milled some "keys", or whatever you would call them…..for the aprons. Kinda wondering if I overdid it from a design perspective with these, but it did need something to reinforce the thin aprons. Gonna go glue up and peg the base now. More to come.


----------



## jmartel

Good progress, Red. That's going to look nice.

And yeah, if he decides to go ahead and have me build it, I'll be spending just about all of the money up at Grizzly on a G0771, mobile base, and track saw. I wasn't originally planning on the track saw, but it would make this build significantly easier, and would be useful in the future for breaking down sheet goods as well as if I work with any slabs. I'm fairly confident that I can do it. I will be buying/making a set of 4 clamping squares though. Could have used it on the last large plywood casework I did.


----------



## lateralus819

Jmart- Someone suggested to me a while back about just making some. I made a bunch and they help a ton.


----------



## Buckethead

It's hard to call any design element that performs a needed function, over doing it. I think it will suit the Asian aesthetic well.

Perhaps adding that dash of craftsman style bringing it into harmony with your interior decor.


----------



## jmartel

> Jmart- Someone suggested to me a while back about just making some. I made a bunch and they help a ton.
> 
> - lateralus819


Yeah, I edited my post right after I hit it to say make/buy. Depends on how accurate I can get a crosscut sled on the new tablesaw, really. But, that will be the first choice.

Regarding the slowing down to enjoy it, yes, I would agree with that sentiment. However, for this build, I'll likely not use many hand tools on it. Plywood just doesn't lend itself well to that.


----------



## ShaneA

JGrizzly, why not the 715? Looks to have a better fence. I had been hoarding that 10% Grizzly coupon(good till 4/13) just in case I was going to go with the G0691, but at this point I am leaning towards to SS. If you are looking to buy in that time frame, I can pass it to you.


----------



## jmartel

If he decides to accept my proposal before say Friday, then I'll be driving up to the headquarters this weekend.

715 does have a better fence, but it also has table mounted trunnions which have the same sort of alignment issues as the Rigid R4512 and the Craftsman version. The 711 has cabinet mounted trunnions, but a weaker fence system. I figured I would upgrade the fence later if needed, but you can't really upgrade the trunnion mounting without buying a new saw. Either way, it's better than the stock fence on the crappy craftsman 113.xxx tablesaw I've been using.

Thanks for the offer on the coupon. Would save me about $100 in total between the table saw, track saw, and mobile base.

EDIT: He's giving me his approval. Just needs to get final approval from his wife, and her approval on the final color. The "mahogany" stain on the Pottery Barn version has too much red in it and is a bit darker. Especially compared to the Sapele.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well, if I wasn't sure how much I like the keys shape/look of the keys on the apron, a screw up decided for me. I cut a dado on the wrong side of the line. Sigh. These are the mistakes I make when I'm only getting little snippets of time to work on something.

Not a huge deal. I just flipped the aprons around so the patch will be on the inside. 








(Patches in the clamps)

All smoothed and ready for glue up….after lunch. I know better to do a glue up when I'm hangry.


----------



## jmartel

Sucks, Red. I hate it when that happens. I've gotta glue some veneer to some of the catbox tenons because I cut them too thin for the mortises.


----------



## 489tad

JYoucandoit. I like the sketch up yield drawing.

You guys ever put a caul tape side down? I did. And almost glued the right side panel, same as the left. There will be a couple of Dutchmans to add to the charm of the piece.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

About ready for finish. I'm waiting on some special epoxy to seal the bottom of the legs. 









Kinda nice, I can move this out to the patio while I work on the benches and chairs. Most projects you can't just kick outside.


----------



## jmartel

I like it, Red. What's the overall height? Seems a little low based off of that photo.


----------



## Buckethead

Red, you gonna chamfer the feet so they don't chip when it gets spotted across the concrete?


----------



## ToddJB

sexy legs


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jnitpick (lol)- It's 30", pretty standard for tables.

Bucket- they've got a decent chamfer with a block plane as of now. Besides the epoxy, I've considered putting some plastic or silicone pads on the bottom to protect. We'll see.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Cool look to the table Red. Probably looks better right side up.


----------



## jmartel

Could be the way the photo looks to me then. Carry on.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Well Big Red One, she's turned out very nice! I guess the party's at your house?!


----------



## SASmith

I finally finished the sculpted chair. I started it over a year ago when I was snowed in. I built most of it in 3 days. Then it sat because I could not decide what to do with the back rest. Finally I jumped in a few days ago to get it done. A few things I would change but overall I am happy with it. This was my first time sculpting and my first attempt at maloof joints.


----------



## fatandy2003

Double post on this one…










It may not be considered furniture in some circles, but I am making a rocking biplane for my son's 2nd birthday. I got a good deal on 200bf of cherry and figured that would be as good a wood as any… I am under the gun at just over a month to make it, but I am pretty sure I can get it done. I'll post progress when I get time.

Cheers.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Scott, that is one classy chair. Probably good for a guy to do a sculpted chair like that before working up to a Maloof or something. Nice work.

Andy- Your skills aren't unnoticed. I bet that'll be nice.

Here's the Smith's penetrating epoxy I coated the bottoms (and tops for the heck of it) of the table legs. I think this stuff is used on boats and trailers to solidify softening/rotting woods. Either way, seems like a good product. Little pricey, $40…but all epoxy is. It's watery in consistency so a little goes a long way. I plan on using it on all the outdoor pieces I'm making.


----------



## ToddJB

Is that the only finish you'll use? Is or a 1 to 1 ratio? Does the end result look and feel like a poly finish…. Let us more.


----------



## jmartel

So I went over to my buddies house tonight with a bunch of wood/veneer scraps to let them decide what they wanted the entertainment center made out of. Originally, his wife said that Sapele was too dark. What did they go with? Walnut.

Go figure.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Is that the only finish you ll use? Is or a 1 to 1 ratio? Does the end result look and feel like a poly finish…. Let us more.
> 
> - ToddJB


That epoxy stuff is just to seal the bottoms of the legs. Like I say, I've been using watco teak oil (which has nothing to do with teak, and not really an oil) for the finish. That stuff is somewhere between watco's danish oil and wiping poly. Definitely builds more than danish oil. Supposedly good for outdoor stuff. We'll see.

I've seen these methods before, but I admit when I saw Marc Spag use then on an outdoor table, I decided to go with it. His vid, shown at the 4:30 mark. 
http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/the-not-so-rustic-rustic-outdoor-table-part-2/


----------



## Mahdeew

I used watco teak oil on my oak outdoor bench and so far (1 year) it hasn't even faded. Rain and moisture just sits on top without penetrating. Off course the bench is not fully exposed to the elements as it sits under a porch.


----------



## jmartel

Red,

If the teak oil doesn't work in the future, you may want to try a spar varnish. Designed for wood trim on boats, it can stand up to a lot of abuse. Plus extra stuff to protect against UV damage. Expensive stuff though.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good to hear mrjinx. Nice bench.

Jeff, I'm familiar with spar varnish, but like Marc was saying at the end of his vid, film finishes like that would have to be scraped or stripped to revitalize down the road. That's something I'd like to avoid. I figure I'll put a coat of teak oil on every year or two. Eventually the oak and ipe will grey, but that's ok.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Here's your Friday laugh.

I would like to hire a custom cabinet maker.


----------



## jmartel

If you could get those little furniture plastic bumpers or something on the bottom that screw into the wood instead of sticking on, then you don't have to worry about it getting scraped off from moving the table around, and it would help keep the legs from soaking up water in the rain. Would probably do a lot for keeping it from rotting.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Well, the new clock mechanism arrived yesterday (requested it Monday-arrived Thursday. How many companies are that on the ball?)

Anyway, here are a couple of photos of it on the wall. Will post it as a project tomorrow, as I need to write up the summary, which takes awhile!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Shop filling up. Having fun with this build, I must say.










EDIT: Beautiful work Dean!


----------



## Buckethead

You've got that pine looking like a million bucks, Smitty. I'm enjoying watching you enjoy it. I just finished the last of my drawer dovetails, sleepy eyed. I was thinking as I walked in: "I'm sick of cutting dovetails". The good news though, the last half blind DT I cut was the tightest one I've ever done. Hopefully that sticks.

Dean, the clock looks fantastic. A ton of work, and you nailed every facet; design, workmanship, and finish.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Atter boy Smitty.

Shop elf sanding diva….









Finish isn't totally dry, but I couldn't wait to get it out there. Makes my menards chairs look like crap….lol. 








-


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Very nice, Red!

Rails chiseled into turned legs = Fun!


----------



## DanKrager

Lookin' pretty good there, Smitty!

And BRK, that does snap out there, yes?

DanK


----------



## ToddJB

Dang you guys are killing it. Awesome job gang


----------



## fatandy2003

Nice Saturday morning surprise. This will be on the "tail section" of the plane.










There is something satisfying about discovering figure like this, slowly, with handplanes…

Cheers,


----------



## CFrye

Red, I was going to mention, on the HPOYD thread that you may get Andy as a plane swap partner (Anderson-infill-dreams) and here he is with a teaser shot!


----------



## Mean_Dean

Ok, clock project is posted!


----------



## CL810

Awesomeness Smitty & Red.


----------



## johnstoneb

That table pops. Nice job Red


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys. You can really tell it's ipe with a little finish on. Nice contrast. I'd like to work some ipe into the benches but I've only got 3/4" stock. Doesn't really fit my design, but we'll see.


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, I think (therein lies the rub) ... that IPE slats in the back and seat of a bench or chairs would be perfect for your style. Am I missing something? 
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dan- I was going to make a bench sorta like this for each side of the table.









Which, of course is all thicker stock. But your right, when I make some adirondacks, or anything with slats….the ipe will work great.

Another design issue is that the ipe 1×4 cuttoffs I traded for are all 40" or shorter.


----------



## 489tad

Great work here fellas. I so behind.


----------



## wormil

I love the look of ipe but it's so hard on tools, forget about hand planing or chiseling. You can do it but it dulls the blades so quickly. Ditto for carbon steel band saw blades.

Another beautiful outdoor wood is cumaru. I used some on an urn and fell in love with the look.


----------



## ScottC

Great job, BigRed. Enjoy watching your progress.


----------



## jmartel

Looks great, red. Interested to see the benches come along.


----------



## Pezking7p

Great stuff going on here. This thread has motivated me today! I'm planning a table to mount my big green egg in, so I'm very interested in the white oak outdoor stuff.


----------



## Iguana

Been working on a dining room table for a client. 96" x 44", with 12" extensions on each end.










The unusual leg configuration, combined with the "hidden" extensions on the ends was a bit of a design challenge. At this point, just about all that is left is finishing, so should be able to get it out of my shop by the end of the week.

I'll post more pics in a few days


----------



## Buckethead

Looks amazing, Mark!


----------



## j1212t

Some very beautiful stuff going on here, you guys have been keeping busy!

After the birth of my beautiful baby daughter 4 weeks ago after I finally went to the shop over the weekend. Assembling the sides for the dresser was on the agenda and I got 'em both done. Pictures are not great, so you have to trust my word on the fact that I did get 2 finished. 

















Just a reminder of what i am building:








I have a question on wooden drawer guides/Slides? I am planning on making the drawers so they rest and slide on the inside framework. The frames in theory should give the cabinet some rigidity and make the whole thing easier to assemble. Something like David posted a pic of on this topic

Here's my questions:
1. Is that a viable option in the long run (my large drawers will be about 32" wide x 23" deep and 8" high)
2. My drawer boxes will be 1/2 ply, should the runners be hardwood like Oak, or should I go with softer wood like Aspen or alder?

(The drawers are for baby clothes, so they shouldn't get too heavy, but the box itself and the drawer fronts which are full 4/4 oak will be pretty heavy by themselves already.)


----------



## johnstoneb

You want to use a hard wood like oak or hard maple. The maple might be better because it is a tighter grain. Fine woodworking has an article on wood drawer slides in the June 2015 issue.


----------



## DanKrager

Jake, much old furniture with wood in sliding contact situations had poplar as the point of contact between parallel grains. Poplar has a peculiar property of being one of the most abrasion resistant woods of the domestic species. I've repaired furniture where a poplar drawer side wore deep grooves in the hardwood frames, but showed little wear itself. Plywood can be much more abrasive because of the layers of end grain and adhesive that will contact wear surfaces. If your plywood drawer sides are going to slide directly on the frame I would at leas put a thin shim of HDPE for a wear surface. I have a 35 year old tool chest where oak sides are dadoed to run on a poplar strip attached to the sides of the case in a dado and the near daily use loaded with heavy has not shown significant wear yet. I keep them waxed which helps. 
Looking good and hope you can make more progress soon. Looking forward to more pictures!
DanK


----------



## j1212t

As far as I understand hardwood on hardwood is preferred. So an option would also be to add thin strips of Oak on the bottom of the drawer?

I'll do some more reading up and pondering and will keep you guys posted on the outcome. But if anyone has any more suggestions I would be very thankful.


----------



## DanKrager

Jake, couple more thoughts keeping me awake. But first, the strips you mentioned should not be "thin" nor secured with metal fasteners. Minimum 1/2" I would recommend, and if you've got or can get poplar, use that.

First thought: You haven't indicated how thick the bottoms of these huge drawers are going to be. I've repaired so many "underbuilt" drawers…some where the bottom actually had a hole worn in it from sag and wear. There's nothing worse than saggy drawers! On a drawer as big as you are building you will want minimum 5/8" thickness on the bottom for several reasons. One, people tend to stuff more and more into a drawer until they have to press it down to close it. That pressure does not go away when the drawer is shut. Secondly, little kids are fascinated with the cozy box effect, so they climb in. Once they discover bouncy it's all over. Leave some room for sag anyway!

Second thought: Long time ago, my first nephew was so proud of his achievement he just HAD to show me. So we went to his bedroom and he proceeded to open the bottom drawer of his chest about half way, the next a little less and the top two even less, and then he scrambled up the "stairway" and stood nose to nose daring me to tell him he did something wrong. Pretty clever! So I shut all the drawers and walked away without a word.

I noted that on the way up the dresser was very light on the back side and if it tipped over trapping his limbs in the open drawers, some serious damage could occur. Just a "preventive" thought. A kid proof latch on the bottom drawer can help a lot.
DanK


----------



## j1212t

Your thoughts are highly appreciated!

I'll beef the drawer up to 3/4 sides and 5/8 bottoms, hopefully that'll be enough? Also - the stairway story is golden, thank you very much, I did not consider that at all. I'll definitely work in a mechanical lock of some kind.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mark and Jake, solid progress. Love that table design.


----------



## jmartel

> I noted that on the way up the dresser was very light on the back side and if it tipped over trapping his limbs in the open drawers, some serious damage could occur. Just a "preventive" thought. A kid proof latch on the bottom drawer can help a lot.
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


They make wall anchors now that you can attach to the back of the cabinet and to the wall to prevent it from tipping over. That's something I'd install on every piece of furniture in my house if I had a kid.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Well, the 'Client' for the in-work Farmhouse Table / Buffet set came by yesterday afternoon to review stain colors. They loved what they saw very much, added a four-legged bench to the scope of work and asked if I'd deliver (for a fee, of course). She then said she's been sharing status pics I've been sending to a friend of hers, and she wants a set just like this one… Oh, and she wasn't telling her friend the quoted price, so 'if you want to adjust it, no risk.'

This is indeed getting interesting. Guess it's how Red got his start, right?


----------



## ToddJB

PBS is going to be calling soon - The Smitwright Shop.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

LAWL! Not if they had any sense at all…

I'm just happy there's shop time with rewards at this point. It's been eye-opening for me from an estimating/building/tracking perspective, and my charming / beautiful wife is quite surprised I could actually do something like these pieces.


----------



## jmartel

That's how I've paid for just about everything so far, smitty. Don't be afraid to stretch your skillset a bit as well. You may end up spending a lot more time on a project and make a lower hourly rate because of it, but just so long as the client is happy, no big deal.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Kinda there with the drawers of the buffet, jmart. Need to decide on drawer slides, and I'm thinking a single bottom slide for each. Not my area of expertise at all, but I'm determined, as I think it's the best choice for this piece.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Well, the Client for the in-work Farmhouse Table / Buffet set came by yesterday afternoon to review stain colors. They loved what they saw very much, added a four-legged bench to the scope of work and asked if I d deliver (for a fee, of course). She then said she s been sharing status pics I ve been sending to a friend of hers, and she wants a set just like this one… Oh, and she wasn t telling her friend the quoted price, so if you want to adjust it, no risk.
> 
> This is indeed getting interesting. Guess it s how Red got his start, right?
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Pretty much Smitty. Now if your wife or clients start putting that stuff on social media….you'll be in trouble! lol.

Nah, just roll with it. Some of the leads will work out, some won't. As hobbyists, we have the luxury of making pieces we want to make, and working with people we want to work with. Happy this is going well for you.


----------



## jmartel

Well I'll be going to pick up all of the walnut plywood plus some solid walnut tomorrow. Should be interesting.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Gunna need a forklift there, Jmartel!

By the way, is Stumpy Nubs not doing his "Behind the Sawdust" videos any more, or did I miss something?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

A furniture makers birthday….


----------



## DanKrager

Ooooooo….I don't know about the bottle, but I'd bet good groceries you're gonna like that blade. Save the box. A blade like that has been on my table saw since 1977 (or so best I can remember) and it is still going strong on one sharpening cutting 2" hedge easily! 
Happy birthday, man.
DanK


----------



## Mean_Dean

Happy Birthday, Big Red One!

Have a dram of that bourbon for me!


----------



## TheFridge

And you got bread pudding? Lucky man.


----------



## ShaneA

A 20 tooth WWII? It is a good day. Happy birthday.


----------



## Iguana

Happy Birthday, Red. Don't drink it all at once


----------



## CFrye

Happy birthday, Red!


----------



## theoldfart

Ah, you got the BOOK. Looking for your thoughts on it when you've read it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks everyone. We make birthdays a big deal at our house. It's fun for the kids….and I had a great day.

Dan- Just out of the package I can tell that Forrest blade is better quality than any I've owned. I'm gonna have to give it a spin today.

Kevin- I just flipped through the the "Chairmaker's Notebook" and it is beautifully done. Lost Art Press never disappoints. Better yet, they get me interested in furniture I never would have considered building before…..like Campaign or windsor chairs.


----------



## terryR

Happy, Happy, Red! now we have the same fret saws, and table saw blades! Since I'm so scared of my TS, I just scored Taunton's Complete Illustrated Guide to TS's…knowledge is power! 

Smitty, it's awesome to hear you are getting more clients! If we lived closer…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nothing special today. Painted some night stands for a friend. Those little foam weenie rollers give a decent melamine-like texture.


----------



## ToddJB

Is you outfeed table a slop table - no concern of paint of stain on the top? I need to dedicate a surface to that.


----------



## jmartel

Todd, have you thought about getting a roll of paper that's slightly wider than your tabletop and mounting it on the end of your table? You can then pull the paper over, paint/finish on it, and then toss it when you're done. That was something that I've seen that I liked the idea of.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Todd, I treat the outfeed/assembly table just like the old benches in my HS shop;-) I scrape it with a razor from time to time. About once every year or two I sand it with the ROS and put a couple heavy coats of poly on it. Saves a lot of paper this way.


----------



## ToddJB

Ideally when I build a welding table it'll have a big metal top it will be easy to clean up afterwards, but who knows when that project will come to fruition


----------



## j1212t

Did some pondering and selecting material on Tuesday and started putting together the carcass of the dresser yesterday. 

















you can vaguely make out the curves in the front top and bottom stretchers, but I'll take new ones once the inside frame is constructed and I am fitting the drawers.

I have a follow up on the wooden runners:
- I am planning on waxing them using my all natural beeswax which my uncle collected from the bees he keeps. I love the smell and I love the fact that it is a clean product. Here's the question:* I am coating the dresser with shellac, should I coat the runners or should I definitely not coat them. Does it make a difference?*

I understand that shellac might fill in some pores, but so would the beeswax, hence my question


----------



## j1212t

Another follow up on the runner questions:

- I am edging the plywood drawer edges with 1/6 or 1/4 thick maple. Would it be OK to have maple running on oak or should I still do the bottoms in Oak to have same materials riding on eachother?

(I am planning on going with maple since the colour is more similar to the Birch plywood I am using and it'll blend nicely with the amber shellac. But I don't have enough to have the runners and the edging done in maple)

EDIT: Found the answer to my first question about shellac in a popularWW article Here apparently what you do is brush with shellac, sand with 240 to 320 paper and then you wax it


----------



## DanKrager

Jake, beeswax all by itself is exceedingly soft to the point of being sticky under the heat and pressure of friction caused by a loaded drawer. I'd use a harder wax…if not pure Carnuba then some laced heavily with it.

I've had nothing but good experience with raw wood just waxed heavily. I'm still pushing poplar. Finish of any sort interferes with good sliding action because even shellac gets sticky, not so much with age but with heat and friction. Yes, it's quite hard, but it hasn't done well under load for me.

DanK


----------



## j1212t

Thanks Dan, sorry i didn't answer that before - poplar is not available here. It is a very rare tree to find in the wild here (north-east Europe), and as you probably know, Europe only has very few species of woods compared to the Americas.

Even our biggest specialty hardwood dealer doesn't sell poplar so there's that.  As far as the wax thing goes, again probably not sold here, but there is a place I can check, I'll ask them for palm wax, see what they come up with. . If I can't find it I'll just use a candle or something.

EDIT:
On their website they have Carnuba flakes to sell, hopefully they have it in the shop. How would one go about applying it, do you soften it with alcohol or heat or do you just grab them and try to rub it in?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Some thoughts Jake, sorry if they're duplicates.

I wouldn't shellac the runners if possible. I use paraffin wax for wood runners and I have to believe that would be common where your at. It's used for canning and candles. Shoot, you could just use a white candle.

I wouldn't sweat the material of the runners, you just don't want softwood. Maple….or whatever you can get.


----------



## jmartel

No comments on your questions, but man that's looking good, Jake.

Should be starting to cut ply this weekend for the entertainment center, hopefully. Been busy setting up the new tablesaw and making various jigs that I'll need for the build. Unfortunately, Grizzly isn't going to get me the accessory pack for the track say system until next Tuesday. If the track system doesn't work with normal clamps, I'll have to wait. Not going to risk the $135/sheet plywood without it being secure.


----------



## DanKrager

Sorry Jake…I don't pay attention to where people are located so much. I understand like a grownup now! Given the limitations, I would use the maple.

Here the Carnuba wax is canned as a paste, Lundmarks Clear Paste Wax. It smells like a mineral spirits solvent, perhaps turpentine could be used? Paraffin is soft but not sticky, so it would be a good alternate. The article talks about warming the flakes and stirring in xylene. Some use acetone. I'd experiment with mineral spirits and turpentine first. It also mentions mixing in a bit of beeswax (say 20%) to soften the result a bit??? Carnuba by itself is too hard and doesn't spread well, won't penetrate. Mineral oil and naphtha are possible solvents, and drying times are significantly different. I'm not a chemist but it sounds interesting. When cool the mixture will solidify a bit and then you can apply it with a rag, dry, and buff it out.

DanK


----------



## j1212t

I got the flakes, the shop didn't have it paste form. They just got their first batch in and said that they thought it is water soluble. .. I didn't comment but based on my limited knowledge of chemistry that didn't sound right.

So as you said Dan - I am leaning toward mineral spirits as well. Especially since I have it available and I have had good success warming it up while cutting shellac. Just in case I'll do a Google search tomorrow and see what that tuns out.

Meanwhile, thanks for all the help! Have about 3 hours in the shop tonight so I'll start cutting and fitting some runners! Pics will follow once it's all said and done and I am fitting drawer fronts


----------



## Mean_Dean

She's look'n good, Jake!


----------



## j1212t

Thanks Dean!

Another question -sorry to keep pestering you all, but you are all so much more versed in the subject and ill take any advantage I can get. 

Just finished watching Krtwoods lathe video and he mentions that large drawers don't work all that well without a centre rail.

Now I was planning on only putting guides on the sides, but his comment makes a lot of sense. So for the 2 larger drawers which are almost 34" wide (840mm) should I go with the centre guide rail ad well? (Depth is roughly 21")Because I'd hate to go through all the trouble and then have them constantly binding. .

I don't see it as an issue for the tip 2 because they are probably 16 1/2 wide at best.

Thoughts?


----------



## DanKrager

If I were doing it, yes to the center rails on the big drawers. Drawers accumulate stuff, heavy stuff, and they need all the help they can get. I'd even use a thick bottom on the big drawers to eliminate as much sag as possible. I've repaired so many under built drawers that I will probably never under build one anymore.
DanK


----------



## j1212t

If anyone is interested then on the discussion of Carnaba wax - I found a receipe online here the guy here uses linseed oil, beeswax, carnabau and vegetable oil. There's a full recepie and description on the blog. As usual - cook in a double boiler and let cool in your container.

Not sure about the vegetable oil, so I might just use the BLO. Did some more digging but I couldn't find any more recepies. It seems that the best ratio is aorund 1/6 to 1/8 ish ratio of wax to liquid. I might experiment with some beeswax, carnauba and BLo once I get to that. Unless anyone else has any experience to suggest otherwise


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The first bird pooped on my new patio table. That's about the only action with furniture around my place of late.


----------



## Mean_Dean

I feel ya, Big Red One!

I have a large Silver Maple tree that extends over my two decks in the backyard. Around mating season, the crows like to sit up in the branches and poop all over the deck and the furniture. I tried running them off with a garden hose, but now they just sit up higher, out of the reach of the hose….....


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Getting somewhere with the drawer framework in the buffet side table.


----------



## jmartel

> The first bird pooped on my new patio table. That s about the only action with furniture around my place of late.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Time to get a pellet gun.


----------



## j1212t

I got a lot done over the weekend. Almost everything is done, only thing left is to add the top anti-tipping runners on the top drawers.

Offset one of the iniside frames for the drawers about an inch or so, lost me about an inch in height on the inside of the middle drawers.. Don't know how I made such a boneheaded mistake, but not many people will notice except me.









Also put in the fronts just to get an idea how it'll look. So far so good. (the lighting is different cause I wanted to capture the chatoyance. All of the fronts are QS, so it should look even better under a few coats of amber shellac. 









Will start on the drawers this week, not much getting done probably, since I don't have the weekend, but i'll probably get to finishing the cabinet next week!


----------



## jmartel

Looking real good there, Jake.


----------



## JayT

Smitty & Jake, those projects are looking great.

That chest of drawers is going to have some killer QS flecking


----------



## j1212t

Thanks Jmartel and Jayt! 
One more question about the drawers. I started measuring for the material and I wanted to make sure that it is still the way to go… I have 2 large drawers which are 33" x 23" x 8" and top has 2 drawers 16" width other measurements are same.

Is it really recommended to go with 3/4 sides + back and drawers? I understand the need for 5/8 bottoms but the 3/4 sides vs 1/2 seems kind of overkill In terms of weight vs gain in rigidity.

I just want to ask if 3/4 is what you would go with? (PS! Maybe I am having problems because plywood is heavy and maybe I should just get some BORG 1×12 pine for the sides? )

Sorry for me fflip-flopping I just want to make sure I get it right the first go around.


----------



## jmartel

I think most furniture is made with thinner sides, actually. I could be wrong, though. I can't see a reason to go with 3/4" over 1/2" for the sides/back.

The biggest issue you would see would be the top of the sides bowing in/out. If that ends up happening, you can glue in a 1/4" square or 3/8" square full length piece on the inside of the top of the drawer and it should fix it.


----------



## DanKrager

Jake, I think 1/2" sides would be adequate, but since I tend to overbuild, 5/8" would be my choice. 9/16" would be a good compromise…every little bit counts there IMHO. Perhaps the thing to consider most carefully is how the drawer is going to be supported…if it runs on the sides, then wider (thicker) is better. If you put runners on the sides, there will be considerable twisting force from the weight.

DanK


----------



## j1212t

My drawers will be running on the middle of the bottom and 2 sides. ( bottom as well) so twisting forces seem neglible. Simply Put I am constructing the drawer and then glueing in wood strips in the middle and both sides on the bottom. All of them will ride on the inside frame I constructed. The side of the cabinet should fully guide the sides on both side and the middle will run in a groove also.

I am more worried about getting the fit just right so to avoid any binding while the drawer moves in and out.

Thanks for the ideas! 1/2 it is, since I have piles of that material. And if it fails - ill just rebuild, chalk it up in the lesson learned column and do better next time around.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sounds decided, but I totally agree 3/4" is overkill, Jake. Love the look of that piece, well done.


----------



## ToddJB

All, I might be jumping into the commission world, as well.

Here's the inspiration piece.










Couple questions:

How do you think the base is attached to the top?

Are there any good articles on this splayed joinery?

Does that top look like 6/4th to you? And 4" legs?

Looks like according to their budget it would need to be made from cheaper materials, but they've gotta have the dark look. If I went with pine for the base and poplar for the top do you think they would be close in appearance with a dark stain?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nice! And, Congrats!

My thought is the legs are attached to the 'sub-top' that's visible in the pic. I have an example of a table joined that way; the legs run dowel-style through the framed sub-top, which is in turn screwed to the underside of the finished top.

I wouldn't mix woods and hope to have them stain out evenly. YMMV, though.


----------



## jmartel

I think it looks closer to 8/4 in that photo. 6/4 would probably still get the effect they want. If you use a whiter pine than the normal yellow ones, it would probably match well enough. Can't help on the joinery, sorry.

If they are on a budget, then whatever is native to the area should be cheapest. You might try Hemlock, Alder, Fir, Aspen, Ash, or Cedar depending on what's available. Could be cheaper than Poplar. I know at least further out west here, Alder is a little bit cheaper than Poplar.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Todd, I wouldn't mix the woods either-I'd use poplar all the way around.

I've had good luck imitating walnut with Nutmeg gel stain. When applied to the poplar, it imitates unfinished walnut. Then when you put the finish on, it looks pretty dang close to finished walnut.

I've also learned that you need to wait about a week after staining to apply the finish. If you don't wait long enough, the mineral spirits in your finish (wiping varnish, or Danish oil) will remove some of the stain, and lighten the color of the stained poplar.


----------



## ToddJB

Thanks guys, I'll have to do some wood shopping. And Smitty, I would love to not mix and match, but I don't think a stained pine would hold up well over time as a top, but 4" legs in anything other than pine will likely be pretty expensive. Oh what to do, what to do.

Edit: thanks Dean, that is super helpful info about staining. Do you use General Finishes for that, followed up by something like Arm-R-Seal?


----------



## jmartel

Todd, do you have a bandsaw? You could glue up the legs and then cut a ~1/16 or 1/8" veneer to go over the glue sides. I did that for my coat rack and it worked quite well. Only problem is where I forgot to add veneer to the tapered portion on top, so you can see the glue line there.

EDIT: Another alternative is what Red did for his display shelf. Splined miters to make an open box leg.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Todd, another consideration with the pine legs, is that pine is soft, and the legs will get kicked, banged, and otherwise abused.

You can laminate poplar to the desired dimensions instead of trying to find 16/4 boards.


----------



## ToddJB

Yes to Bandsaw, and good thoughts on gluing up the legs.


----------



## ToddJB

Okay. A quick call and I can get S3S 6/4 poplar at $3.24 bdft. OR they have a sale right now of white mahogany S3S 4/4 for $3.25 bdft.

That's a Janka of 540 vs 2250. That's quite a difference. Anyone work with WM before?


----------



## jmartel

Never heard of it, myself. But I haven't worked with a ton of exotics, at least in solid wood form.

Planning on using hand tools at all? I've used Padauk, Blackwood, and Purpleheart which are all less than that, but were still rough to work with. Bloodwood was more, but I don't think I used hand tools on it at all. Just machines.

Going to be an extremely heavy table if you use that, but probably wouldn't dent even if you hit it with a hammer.

Red can probably offer some insight since he just used Ipe, which is harder.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'd go with the harder wood for similar pricing any day. That joinery will have some stress on it. For the splayed joints, I'd be doing some loose tenons. Makes those angled tenon shoulders easy peasy.

Like this pancho.


----------



## ToddJB

The only hand tooling would be cleaning up loose tenons, unless I just used dowels.

With it only being 4/4 it'll be lots o'glueing.

Need to start doing some math.


----------



## lateralus819

I remember a video where Rob Cosman said you can tell a beginners drawers by the thickness of his drawer sides (3/4").

I will say 1/2" sides/back with a 3/4" face looks much better.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ehh, what's ol' carnival barker Cosman know anyway;-)

Nah, admittedly I've used 3/4" stock for drawer sides before. Usually because I was too lazy to run it through the planer for one drawer or whatever. And I usually regret it. 1/2" to 5/8" is best for furniture. 3/4" is fine for shop or heavy duty stuff.


----------



## jmartel

So, I was looking through some old magazines today and managed to find Woodsmith plans that are almost exactly what I need for the entertainment center. WS #180 if anyone is interested.










vs










Picked up some good ideas that I hadn't thought of. I guess I need to go through old magazines more frequently before I build/design stuff.


----------



## j1212t

Looking forward to following your build Todd!
Jmartel, did you already start the build? I remember discussion about finding the material, can't remember if you started or not.

Thanks for weighing in BRK and Lat! Now I can rest easy knowing that our own LJ's give a vote of confidence to Cosman as well - I always had doubts about the guy…


----------



## ToddJB

Okay. Looks like if I make the table to be 64×40x30", plus 10 percent waste wood - I'd be at 80bdft. 80bdft @ $3.25 plus tax sits me at $280. Another $50 for stain, glue, finish, and hardware put me at $380 in materials.

What do you think would be fair to quote on hours on something like this? 15? The splayed legs I feel will add a good deal of time.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Add 10% to your mtl cost as a buffer, for shopping and hauling and stacking, etc. Etc. Etc. And I think you could do it in that amount of time.


----------



## j1212t

From my limited experience - unless you calculated the bf with the available material dimensions and the cut list , 10% might be a little short for waste. I always try to find out which boards I can use beforehand, so I lay out the cutlist and then 10% is enough, if I don't know exactly which boards I'll be able to get, i tack on minimum of 20%.

In terms of time, it really depends on your machines and workflow. But I see a minimum of 5 hours just for finishing.


----------



## jmartel

I've added 20-25% for waste in the past, especially with buying rough, random width random length lumber. I'd also view that as closer to 20 for me at least when you factor in all the finishing stuff. But you may work faster than I do.

Jake, I've got all the materials. I've been holding off on starting as I was waiting for clamps from Grizzly for my new Track saw. They apparently were backordered at the warehouse I went to, which didn't show up when I bought them. They should be arriving tonight, so I'll be breaking down all 8 sheets tonight into rough dimensions. Probably start cutting joinery and such tomorrow.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Okay. Looks like if I make the table to be 64×40x30", plus 10 percent waste wood - I d be at 80bdft. 80bdft @ $3.25 plus tax sits me at $280. Another $50 for stain, glue, finish, and hardware put me at $380 in materials.
> 
> What do you think would be fair to quote on hours on something like this? 15? The splayed legs I feel will add a good deal of time.
> 
> - ToddJB


Sounds pretty accurate to me Todd. Especially if your using power tools for the milling and such.


----------



## ToddJB

Thanks for input, boyz. I need to chat with the wood store to hammer out some specifics before I throw it back to the customer.

Jake, I was pretty liberal with the 80 bdft to begin with before tacking on the 10%, so I think I'm good on that front.

And Jslow, it might take me WAY longer than 15 hours, but I've honestly never clocked myself. So this is a big learning experience for me. I just want to make sure the materials are totally covered that way if I eat it on everything else I'm only eating time.

Interestingly, completely unrelated to this customer, a refinishing job just got put on my plate today, as well. I have minimal interest in refinishing, but it's for a friend.


----------



## jmartel

Sounds like you've got a good estimate then. I'd say go for it. Worst they can do is say no and then you can go back to doing personal projects. Not much downside there to me.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> And Jslow, it might take me WAY longer than 15 hours, but I've honestly never clocked myself. So this is a big learning experience for me.
> 
> - ToddJB


Boy, Howdy, do I get that line of thinking!


----------



## ToddJB

Any of you guys work with S3S (both faces planed and one edge jointed)? Are the faces typically straight enough for immediate glue up?


----------



## Hammerthumb

That's a good question Todd. As I am in Las Vegas, most of the wood that come in the lumberyard here comes from mills in So. Cal. I'm sure that the material is s3s as it is milled in California, but by the time it gets here it is now bowed, twisted, etc.

I started buying rough lumber many years ago because of this, but now it is getting hard for me to find a supplier that will carry rough or skip planed material. I have now been forced to buy oversized surfaced materials, and re-mill them after acclimation.

Such is life in the desert.

To answer the question, I guess it just depends on the climate the material is milled in, and the climate at your shop. If your mill is local to you, it should probably stay pretty true.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You guys already know about this, and have seen a few pics, but the blog series is underway too.

http://lumberjocks.com/Smitty_Cabinetshop/blog/55202


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Any of you guys work with S3S (both faces planed and one edge jointed)? Are the faces typically straight enough for immediate glue up?
> 
> - ToddJB


Depends…. on how good of job they did. With presurfaced stuff, you really want to pick them out and make sure the boards are bowed, because you don't have much thickness left to joint the face. Not a big deal if you can select your own boards though.


----------



## ToddJB

That's good info. Thanks guys. I'm going to get this quote off hopefully tonight and see how it all shakes out.


----------



## lateralus819

I buy all mine S4S. I've learned to hand pick through the stack for flat boards. I've been bitten before. Usually only matters for wider glue ups really.

Red is correct. Any board that is bowed (if it needs to be at its max. width) could take considerable material away to get flat again. If they will allow you to hand select that would be cool.


----------



## jmartel

I typically buy everything rough. I skip plane or use hand planes to get one side reasonably flat, and then send it through the planer. No jointer here.

Not sure if I should put up a blog for the entertainment center or not. I got all of the track saw work done tonight. There's a lot of plywood.


----------



## jmartel

Here's the lot of it. Some couldn't be broken down further without a second rail to connect to the first, so those will be done on the TS. There's enough waste that it won't need a precision cut on those first try.










Some of the piles are pretty deep.


----------



## ToddJB

That's a lot of plywood. How do you like the track saw?


----------



## TheFridge

Pretty

Edit: so I could use some insight. 20×48 workbench. Finally have all the planes I need, cleaned and tuned (I think).

24" woody (thats alot of wood!), couple jacks, #3, and a couple crap #4s if necessary (don't think so).

The top is a little concave. So the process I follow should be along the lines of?: 
use a jack and winding sticks (don't have any never made any, so any tips would be awesome) to make sure it's all in the same plane while working longways with the grain. Work the jointer from one side to the other in a consistent manner until I can get a full shaving.

Is this about right?

Hate to blow up this topic but I hate starting my own. Any and all help would be appreciated.


----------



## jmartel

It's nice to have. If you don't expect Festool quality, the Grizzly is a great alternative. If you want tearout free cuts, you either need to make a zero clearance fence for the side of the kerf opposite of the track, or you will need to do a scoring cut first.

With scoring cut:










Without (this is worse than a rip cut since it's a crosscut relative to the top veneer):










Keep in mind though that this is the stock blade. I didn't want to buy a new blade for this just yet, but I'll probably get one soon enough. I cut oversized so that way it could be final sized on the TS, so the tearout wasn't an issue.

Definitely better than just a circular saw with a shop made guide. Better dust collection, easier to position/clamp, depth stop that can be switched easily, etc.


----------



## j1212t

That is a BIG pile of plywood! One thing that drastically helps me when doing cuts on plywood is raising (on TS) or dropping the blade (on a circular saw) to the full height/depth. 
Since the angle of the tooth hitting the plywood is a lot steeper, the tearout is minimal. That is what I do when I am cutting a lot of plywood on the TS and don't need the cuts 100% perfect (although sometimes they come out that way as well)

that is what I actually did yesterday when I was cutting out the drawer pieces on my TS. But it is very scary and can be dangerous, so exercise caution and common sense and if not comfortable, don't do it. I hardly ever score the line, unless I am dosing housing dados with a router. Masking tape on both sides of the cut works miracles for me.

I was discussing some projects with the wife yesterday, need to make a Shoji room divider, shoji style doors for our big wardrobe, a chair for our new and improved computer desk as well as a few cabinets and a lot of cabinet doors for the kitchen.

Phewf, that is a long list and if I want new toys I need to take on a comission which has been on hold for a few months already… I am very excited, need more time though. But the cool thing is that all of the furniture in my house will be made by me (except a sofa, since I don't do upholstery)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Here's an interesting idea for discussion for the piece Todd is considering:










If he going to use loose tenons for the angled joints, why couldn't he use a large (1"-1 1/4" oak) dowel for his loose tenon…...essentially making a round tenon:









If the tenon (dowel) is pegged, I gotta believe its just a strong. And just think how much easier it would be to make matching mortises with a forster bit.

That's the kinda "out of the box" stuff I think of. Not much different than a domino joint, and it would save hours.


----------



## j1212t

That is a ridiculously good idea! I just won an auction on a 100 year old hand cranked drill press, that is definitely something I am going to try out once I get it cleaned up and working.


----------



## ToddJB

Dang Red, that is a great idea. Glad I thought of it a few days ago



> The only hand tooling would be cleaning up loose tenons, unless I just used dowels.
> 
> - ToddJB




Seriously though, after glued up you think pinning it would be a good idea?


----------



## jmartel

Another thing to consider would be instead of one large dowel to use 2 medium sized dowels in the corners so that way you don't have any problems with parts rotating during glue up. You could pin the one, but it would show up on the surface. May or may not be desired to see the end grain of the pin.


----------



## Mean_Dean

If you gunna use dowels, make sure to use dowel points to make sure everything lines up properly!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Dang Red, that is a great idea. Glad I thought of it a few days ago;-)
> - ToddJB


Doh, I thought you meant using a couple smaller dowels. My idea is more like a large round loose tenon. Totally different….lawlz


----------



## ToddJB

> If you gunna use dowels, make sure to use dowel points to make sure everything lines up properly!
> 
> - Mean_Dean


Dean, could you elaborate? I know not of these dowel points.


----------



## Mosquito

Todd, dowel points:









You drill one set of holes, then put those in those drilled holes, then press them against the other piece so you get a center point for where to drill the other holes. They help ensure the dowels line up correctly, with out using a doweling jig.


----------



## jmartel

http://www.amazon.com/Milescraft-5343-Dowel-Center-8-Piece/dp/B0055HPJ22

They mark the centers for where to drill dowels so that everything lines up perfectly.

EDIT: Dang, Mos beat me to it.


----------



## ToddJB

Awesome. Thanks, Mos. So simple.

Next question: How do you guys drill perfectly perpendicular large holes in the end of boards too long for the drill press. Like this one?


----------



## Mosquito

Do you have a lathe? Though that wouldn't work if the ends weren't square…

Maybe Drill a hole in a guide block on the drill press, add a fence of sorts, and clamp that to the work piece?


----------



## ToddJB

Both those options might work. Good thinking, Mos!


----------



## Mosquito

You know, that's got me thinking now… I've got a post drill, maybe if I had a second one, I could mount it on a lathe stand for horizontal boring…


----------



## DanKrager

^!!! I've seen and done some rationalizing, but this raises the bar!!! 
DanK


----------



## Mosquito

Well, I'm not strong enough to justify pulling my post drill off the wall to make it pull double duty, I had to take the thing completely apart just so I could mount it there in the first place!


----------



## DanKrager

LAWL! Just razzin' ya, Mos.

OK. Maybe you could mount it on a rotating plate?

DanK


----------



## Mosquito

Now THERE's an idea! lol


----------



## Mollie

I'm home renovating and have a lot of old stuffs like furniture sets for the bedroom , study and balcony. There was an antique tiger chair ( looked like a tiger holding a glass mount ) which when started to deteriorate , a visible brown powder came off it, we had to discard it to the waste bin service - Junk It in Toronto( www.junkit.ca ). They said it needed to be treated. I don't want this to happen to my other furniture at home. Please suggest the best varnish/ lacquer in town.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Todd, you could even do through roundies with wedgies if you wanted to get all crizazy….

Example:


----------



## Mean_Dean

Todd, send us a photo of your drill press set up-I have an idea.

If your drill press is a bench-top model, and is mounted on a bench, you usually can swivel the motor housing 180 degrees, and drill the workpiece with it sitting on the floor.

So, put the workpiece on the floor-use shims if necessary-then swivel the drill press motor housing around so that you can drill the workpiece.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Not going to post this as a project, but thought I'd show you guys.

Greene & Greene towel bar for the master bath:









Usual G&G procedures: Mahogany, Darrell Peart dye stain, wiping varnish, etc.


----------



## ToddJB

Red, I thought about that too. I also thought, since I would be laminating 4 peices to get the thickness I could use a similar technique that D.Baron uses when building his workbench. Using the two center pieces as the tenon. And the two outside pieces of the leg frame the mortise. That would be stupid easy to make.

Dean, Bench top, yes, that's a good idea. I could even put my machine vise on the floor to hold it vertically/stationary.

But all of this might be for not. I just shot off the quote, so we'll see what she comes back with. I effectively told her that its White Mahogany or nothing. I feel in the long run she would be disappointed with putting a dark stain on construction pine after a few years of wear.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Todd, have some faith, brotha!


----------



## ShaneA

What is this white mahogany you speak of. I have never even heard of that before, am I missing out on a low cost option here?


----------



## ToddJB

Ha. My quote came back at twice what she said she'd like to spend, but at 1/3 of what that table sells for (on sale). I think I did a pretty good job at helping her frame a realistic expectation of custom built furniture, but if it comes down to "I ain't got the cash", well then, she ain't got the cash.


----------



## Buckethead

Shane, I googled it the other day and google calls it eucalyptus: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucalyptus_acmenoides


----------



## ToddJB

> What is this white mahogany you speak of. I have never even heard of that before, am I missing out on a low cost option here?
> 
> - ShaneA


Not common, nor cheap here. Just currently on sale at the local place

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucalyptus_acmenoides


----------



## jmartel

> Ha. My quote came back at twice what she said she d like to spend, but at 1/3 of what that table sells for (on sale). I think I did a pretty good job at helping her frame a realistic expectation of custom built furniture, but if it comes down to "I ain t got the cash", well then, she ain t got the cash.
> 
> - ToddJB


Some people will approach you and say that they want stuff from Ikea, but oh by the way, could you do it for 1/3 less? That'd be great, thanks.


----------



## camps764

I really think that a lot of what drives the "I want something from IKEA, but at 1/3 less" mentality is all of the crafts blogs/pinterest that show tutorials for building copy cat furniture using pocket holes on the cheap. Sites like Anna White are awesome for home crafters and people just getting into the hobby, but it also sets some unrealistic expectations.

Since opening my own part time business I've had more than my share of people send me photos of something from one of those sites and ask me to build it. I'm always more than happy to give them a quote, but then they are confused when my finished price comes out to more than the $27 in pine materials that the tutorial quotes.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Well, the issue is: Does the customer want a quality piece of furniture that will out live his/her grandkids, or does the customer want IKEA?

If it's IKEA you want, I'm not your man….......!


----------



## jmartel

Got the parts for the lower 3 sections squared and sized up tonight.










Going to be slightly smaller than planned since apparently I made a cut with the tracksaw that was pretty out of square, which made a few other pieces not square as well. Oh well. Not a huge deal. It will still easily fit a 60" TV which is the main requirement.

Joinery starts tomorrow. Going to be all dadoed together. Face frame will be used with a slot cutter and splines. I'm going to make the lower 3 cabinets first, and then do the hutches/bridge after. So far the pieces are marked with letters and the corner that was used to square it up.


----------



## camps764

Looking good Jmartel!


----------



## BrettUK

Good looking design you have there! I would be proud of that one.


----------



## Buckethead

In my world we call that "inchitis" jskew.

Where for whatever reason, we mark the wrong inch mark. I blame lysdexia, but doing so never helps.


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, not sure how it happened. Oh well, not a big deal. It's just a fraction of an inch shorter and less deep. The biggest thing was just to set the fence and make all cuts that were that dimension on that fence setting, which I did. Then I just scaled other sizes down appropriately. No harm done. I've got lots of little scrap pieces for setting up joinery/finishing which is good. All of those little pieces under the long piece leaning on the table are scrap. And this is just half the build so far.


----------



## jmartel

And we've gone 3D. The sides are just a hair proud of the top panel. I'll flush it up with a block plane once it's all finished. Then the top will be glued on and cover up the plywood edges. Just a dry fitup for now. The center TV stand will be next. I will need to drill shelf holes and cut the slots for the splines to hold the face frame on before glue up.


----------



## j1212t

Looking good!


----------



## Mean_Dean

Looks like you're making good progress!


----------



## jmartel

For anyone who's watched their previous videos, Doucette & Wolfe put up a new one today. I just happened to be wanting to watch a couple to get some inspiration and noticed they had a new one. I feel like this one does a better job of showing how everything comes together as well, so it's worth watching.


----------



## lateralus819

Is it sad i giggle like a school girl when they put a new video out?

I follow them on facebook and have even gotten the chance to talk to Matt about his LN planes! Pretty cool dude he is.


----------



## CL810

Jvideo, thanks for the heads up on the D & W video.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Jeezus, that Doucette & Wolfe video showed me one thing above all else: My tools need to be sharpened. Oh… my… gawd…

Second thing is, I gotta use my #9 more. After I sharpen it, of course.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Smitty, he does like that block plane on steroids (no 9). And his sharpening skills are as good as anyone.

Not to take away from what Matthew does, but it certainly helps to get choice 18" wide stock….and have a jointer wide enough to flatten it;-)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That jointer was insane. But it don't matter what quality stock I have… Skillz aren't there by a night-and-day longshot.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Working drawers!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice work Smitty. I don't know that any of us will have Matthew's sills in our lifetime. But, I think we can both relate to the way Schwarz writes these days. Ya know, how he says he much more interested in acquiring skills than tools.

I had some some decent shop time today. Benches for the outdoor table coming together…..








-









-
And in case you guys didn't think my shop elves and I have any fun…

http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf


----------



## CFrye

*THAT* is beautiful, Red!


----------



## Buckethead

Just watched the vid. Amazing.


----------



## CFrye

Oh, and the bench parts look good too!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys. It's a wonder I get anything done. She has me belly laughing at least a couple times a day.

Crud, I just realized I jacked up the photos earlier….here's the attempted second one:


----------



## CFrye

I like the seat 'sinking' in the center a bit. Haven't tried one that way, but it seems like it'd be comfy.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Bench looks great, Big Red One! Shop elf even better!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I like the seat sinking in the center a bit. Haven t tried one that way, but it seems like it d be comfy.
> 
> - CFrye


Yup, it's partly for comfort, and partly to eliminate flat horizontal surfaces. They're good to avoid on outdoor furniture. You don't want water pooling up and expediting rot on the flat areas.


----------



## ToddJB

Benches look great, Red. And fun video. You sound nothing like what I imagined.


----------



## Airframer

> Benches look great, Red. And fun video. You sound nothing like what I imagined.
> 
> - ToddJB


It was exactly how I always imagined it.. a bit of a mixture of Hank Hill and Paul Bunyan..


----------



## Pezking7p

No video for me. Doesn't show up for some raisin. But I love the japanesey bench and table.

Matthew is a hell of a craftsman. I wish he made other styles of furniture, though. Also, his wood source is freaking amazing.


----------



## theoldfart

Red sounds just like I imagined. great video Red


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Hank Hill and Paul Bunyay….Lawlz. Yep, that's what a big red ogre sounds like mid belly laugh.

Thanks for the comments on the benches. Hoping to mount the seats today. Then I'll start dreaming up some outdoor captains chairs to go on each end of the table.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Little action today. Shaped the little swoop on the ends of the bench seats. Roughly cut with bandsaw, then shaped with a jack and block planes. A jack plane works better at shaping curves than you would think. 








-
I didn't have a 1" plug cutter, so I made some tapered plugs on the lathe.









-
A little assembly left and I'll be putting on some finish.


----------



## jmartel

I really need a bigger garage if I'm going to keep doing large casework pieces.










have one of the end cabinets finish sanded and gluing up at the moment.


----------



## j1212t

Red and Jmartel - Looking very fine there, just as we'd expect. you don't know small shop until you have built a project off plans with no way to assemble until you get to the clients place.  First commission I ever did was like that.

As far as I see, you still have room to take on some large projects. 

The long weekend without woodworking is finally behind me, getting back to the dresser tonight. Finally broke down and bought full extension slides for the 2 larger drawers - some mods were necessary but ultimately I am more confident in my ability to install these and get the running perfectly than just doing it on wood runners. The 2 small drawers are still going to be wood on wood, so I'll still get to test it out.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Decided to check out Woodcraft magazine. They had some cools stuff in this issue, but I cringed a bit when I saw the plans for the swing on the front:









Maybe I'm becoming a joinery snob…I dunno. They show the entire side frames on this glider being joined with biscuits! Yikes! That thing is going to experiences some torque and racking in its lifetime. Spend that money on mahogany and use biscuits on the structural joints? Biscuits have their place, but I don't know about that.

Okay, I'll get off my high horse now.


----------



## jmartel

I think it might be more to do with the magazine just being another advertisement spot for Woodcraft. They want to sell biscuit joiners. And look at how beautiful of a garden glider you can make if you only had a biscuit joiner. Using M&T joinery doesn't sell any more tools. I would assume the same thing if they used a Domino, Dowel Jig, Beadlock, or Pocket Hole screw system. Although any of the above would probably be better than just the biscuits.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I don't know about that. Woodcraft sells mortising machines, mortising chisels….etc.

I just think they shouldn't "dumb down" the craft just to get people involved. People will be all the more disappointed if it falls apart in a few years.


----------



## jmartel

True enough. But I've also seen them advertise mortisers in that way as well. I think it goes on a rotating cycle so that way they can plug certain products every few years without it becoming too repetitive.

To me, I think most of the dumbing down comes from people like Ana White and other pinterest stuff where they use a pocket hole jig for everything.

I got a one year subscription to Woodcraft, and didn't like it so I let it lapse. I had Wood for a while as well, but have since let it lapse as well. I currently get Woodsmith, and I read FWW for free at the Library. Popular Woodworking has some decent stuff, but I don't know that it's enough for me to subscribe to.


----------



## Mosquito

disappointed and discouraged, ^ I would agree


----------



## Lucasd2002

> ... I had Wood for a while as well, but have since let it lapse …
> 
> - jmartel


They make pills for that (so I've heard).


----------



## j1212t

I edgebanded 16 pieces of plywood for the drawers yesterday. Ran out of duct tape so the last 2 pieces went on with clamps.  It has been a long while since I have seen some actual progress, a lot of tinkering but nothing has yet gone together. Tonight is for trimming the edgebanding and hopefully by tomorrow I can start putting together the drawers, then some pics should follow.

After drawers it is down to the last piece - the top and final fitting of drawer fronts and then we are good to go for finishing. Can't wait! Will post pics once the edgebanding has been trimmed and sanded.


----------



## jmartel

Sounds good, jake. Don't forget photos

I went into work late today, so I managed to get another ply box glued up. Ran all over town last night trying to find a store that had a working pipe cutter/threader. Local Home Depot that I usually go to's machine went down last week. Lowes just down the road has had a broken machine for over a year. Ended up driving about 25 min away to get to another Home Depot that had a working one.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Quick: What's the fractional form of .6875?

Time's up!

It's 11/16.

The plans I have for my next project have all the measurements in decimal form. I prefer to work in fractional form, so I decided to make a chart with the fractional equivalents of the fractions down to 16's.

Thought I'd pass it along to you guys:

1/8 = .125
3/8 = .375
5/8 = .625
7/8 = .875
1/16 = .0625
3/16 = .1875
5/16 = .3125
7/16 = .4375
9/16 = .5625
11/16 = .6875
13/16 = .8125
15/16 = .9375


----------



## byerbyer

I've been slammed at work and I'm just getting caught up on some LJ's this morning before I start a mini-vacation tomorrow (headed to Colorado for a craft beer brewery trip.) I've been meaning to ask if any LJ's are headed to WIA in Kansas City this fall?

I'm planning on attending, but I haven't decided if I'll just be hitting up the marketplace or taking in a class or two. FYI the Royals will be in town against the Indians that weekend.


----------



## JayT

> I ve been meaning to ask if any LJ s are headed to WIA in Kansas City this fall?
> 
> I m planning on attending, but I haven t decided if I ll just be hitting up the marketplace or taking in a class or two. FYI the Royals will be in town against the Indians that weekend.
> 
> - byerbyer


As of right now, I'm planning on registering for Saturday's sessions, need to approve it with the household CFO and scheduler. I had also noted that the Royals have a home series that weekend. It'd be cool to get a group of us together at the game Friday night-or not ;-) We'd either have a ball or a fight, not sure which is more likely. If the Royals continue playing like they are right now, tickets might be hard to come by for a game that late in the season.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> In my world we call that "inchitis" jskew.
> 
> Where for whatever reason, we mark the wrong inch mark. I blame lysdexia, but doing so never helps.
> 
> - Buckethead


This made me laugh. Lysdexia..haha


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Byer, I'm going to try to make it to WIA as well. I just won't know until closer to the date. Stuff for my job is all in limbo right now.


----------



## Hammerthumb

> Little action today. Shaped the little swoop on the ends of the bench seats. Roughly cut with bandsaw, then shaped with a jack and block planes. A jack plane works better at shaping curves than you would think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> I didn t have a 1" plug cutter, so I made some tapered plugs on the lathe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> A little assembly left and I ll be putting on some finish.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


That's funny Red. A few years ago I was working for a waterproofing company. We were doing some work in the basement parking garage at the Cosmopolitan Hotel & Casino. There was water running out of the holes for the tie back heads in the concrete walls because when they built it, they didn't think of putting waterproofing on the positive side of the tilt ups. We were stuffing them with waterproofing and needed some way to cork the holes, as the waterproofing would expand with water to seal. I came up with the wonderful idea of making tapered plugs with white oak. Looked just like your picture. Made 16,000 plugs. Took months.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Sorry guys. Been working a lot of hours lately and am trying to get caught up.

Red - your outdoor furniture looks magnificent.

Jmart - your ambitious project looks like it is coming right along. I know what you mean about not having room. I have my nephews bench and a kitchen island in my shop. Just about out of room.

Jake - waiting for the pics. Sounds like a nice project.

Carry on.


----------



## jmartel

Paul,

I think I've decided at this point that I'm going to put whatever cases I'm not actively working on in a spare bedroom on the same floor as the garage. I can hardly move in there right now. I've got one of the lower outer boxes glued up and the center long box glued up. Other lower outer box will be glued tonight. May start working on faceframes for those boxes tonight depending on how long glue up takes.

16,000 plugs? That's a lot of work. I think I might have just gone online and bought them. Did you at least have a tapered plug cutter or did you do it all on the lathe like Red did?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Sounds like a plan Jeff. You have to weigh the labor to move the stuff around, vs the advantage of the extra room you will have.

I have only had this new work bench assembled outside the shop due to not enough room inside. Although it is a little work to do the assembly, I made the bench so it only takes a couple of minutes.

Just a little reminder, the more complete the piece, the heavier they get. ;-0


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jeff- I use our basement as an overflow for big projects often.

Good to hear from you Paul. Just put the finish on the benches that go with the Asian outdoor table.









-








-


----------



## ToddJB

Super cool, Rojo.


----------



## jmartel

Those look great, Red. I don't think I've ever noticed a Jointer in the background of your photos until now, actually.

And yeah, it will be relatively simple to get the pieces to the bedroom from the garage. It's all on the same floor since I'm in a townhouse, I just need to get it through the doorway.

The long center portion is on my workbench right now. For a sense of scale, my workbench is 72" long. The center portion is 62" long. Add in overhang from cauls and pipe clamp ends and it's taking up some space. I had to have one of the pipe clamps go under my bandsaw table since I couldn't move the saw anywhere else at the time.

After thinking about the design more, I think I underestimated the amount of solid Walnut I'll need. Plus I'm leaning towards making the trim wider. 1.5" instead of 3/4" or 1" like originally planned. Oh well, chalk it up to experience. Shouldn't be more than another $100 worth, tops. I can live with that since I got a tablesaw, track saw, and some other things out of the deal. Plus I think there's areas that won't be seen that I can use some of the 3/4" ply scrap to fill in and not require solid wood.


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, those benches are really nice. They look very sturdy…sturdy enough for ME to sit upon without fear. How many coats of oil did you put on them? Was it still "wet" when you took the pictures? It looks very shiny. Anyway, I really like them.

DanK


----------



## CL810

Red, pics are nice but all I could think about was the poor movers when they show up. Hope they're beefy young men.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks fellers. Now I'm gonna make a couple captains chairs for the ends of the table and call it good.

Dan, I put two coats of teak oil…and the second coat was still wet in the pics. It doesn't dry near that shiny.

Andy- If we move…poor movers is right. Everything in my house is solid hardwoods, and it's friggin heavy! My joinery bench is almost ten foot long. It's gotta weigh 800-900 lbs with the lower cabinets. I can't even budge it by myself….lol.


----------



## CL810

Guess where I'll be tomorrow morning. Karges furniture made very, I mean very, high end furniture, the $10k a chair kind of furniture. It was sold to a company in Michigan and is relocating.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ Oh….it hurts so good.


----------



## CFrye

Take pictures, CL810!


----------



## j1212t

oh CL- you make me green with envy. Super cool looking benches BRK, you are churnin' them projects out like nothing.

I am still chomping away at the drawers, assembling them tonight, then it is off to do the top of the dresser, fit the drawer fronts and make the drawer pulls.
There's the sides all edgebanded, ready to be cleaned up









Started out trying to use a router with a copying bit to clean it up, but quickly found out a handplane was a cleaner, quicker and much less dusty alternative. After planing them to thickness I took the pieces to my shooting board.









Test fitting the smaller drawer sides









All sanded and stacked, ready to be assembled


----------



## jmartel

Coming along nicely, Jake.

Here's a photo of the center portion being glued up on the bench. Only area flat enough to do a glue-up of this size. My floor is pretty uneven so I don't trust it at all.










And I chucked the 2 glued up pieces in the spare storage bedroom for now. Even running out of room in there, but at least I can move in my garage now.


----------



## CL810

Road trip was a success! Tables with stacks of veneer on right. Furniture kits and lumber on the left.










Looks like I'll be using Prima Vera for a while. Guys there said the common name is white mahogany. Someone was just talking about this, I think on this thread.










What I wanted but sadly left without it.


----------



## CL810

I bought a bunch of veneer at prices I felt almost guilty about. In the first photo is mahogany measuring 3' x 4.5' cost $10. In total I bought 44 pieces for $94.


----------



## JayT

Looks like a good time, CL810. What was the final bd/ft price for the Prima Vera?

Very many people wandering and looking or just a few die-hards?

That Honduran mahogany would be grand, but you'd have to have a good commissioned piece in the pipeline to use it on to justify the investment.

Edit: Jaw dropped on that Mahogany veneer. The rest of it is pretty nice, too and sure couldn't beat the price.


----------



## JayT

unjam


----------



## CL810

They were selling furniture kits. Here's a little coffee table. I bought veneer just like what is on this table. People were buying these kits and then hiring the guys who use to work there to assemble and finish the pieces.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Man alive! Good for you Andy. That would have put a dent in my savings account.


----------



## ToddJB

Super cool, Andy. Good gets.

It was I talking about White Mahogany - which I have yet to hear back from the quote I sent off to the commissioner.


----------



## Mosquito

sweet score Andy! That looks like it'd been fun


----------



## CL810

JayT, it came in at $1.77. I also got some butternut at $1.03. Lots of serious buyers who were the lumber up real fast. There were only 3 bundles of butternut and the guy in front of me bought two. Glad I got there when they opened the doors. Lots of people are going to be disappointed.


----------



## jmartel

Dang, I would have spent a lot of money there on that Veneer. Nice haul.


----------



## Buckethead

That's an incredible get, cl810.

Kinda sad thinking about all those guys who need jobs now.

IMA say a little prayer for them, despite not being religious.


----------



## CFrye

Congratulations, CL810! And thanks for the pics!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The funnest part of being a furniture maker….









Yes Pooh eats with us. He is real to her;-)


----------



## CL810

Neat!


----------



## CFrye

Nice, Red!


----------



## johnstoneb

Enjoy Pooh while you can they grow so fast. That table looks like it should be inside.


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## j1212t

Drawers are assembled. I think I made the larger ones a tad too tight though. If i put the slides in and the drawer, the drawer doesn't really move, it is so tight. I think i should plane off a bit, so it moves freely, because before I actually attach the slides, I need to finish the drawers and inside. SO i am thinking that if they barely move now, once I finish everything and attach them it might be too tight.

How do you check that the drawer is in the right size without actually fastening the slides to it and to the frames? (I am asking because it seemed too tight for me cause I couldn't slide the slides in between the drawer and frame, I had to push them in)


----------



## CL810

I really like the design.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Jake - I usually strive to get the drawers to go into the opening, but tight enough that they do not slide freely into place. I then hand plane them until I get a nice smooth action from front to back. I do this a little at a time. A nicely fitting drawer will not have a tendency to twist or rack in the opening. If it racks in the opening, then it is too loose.

My 2 cents.


----------



## jmartel

That's a great photo, Red, and a perfect example of one of the payoffs of building your own furniture. Something your family will enjoy for many years.


----------



## mochoa

Red, I think the deck needs some Ipe now to…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks fellers.

Maur- I can barely afford the Ipe cutoffs I put in the table

Jake- snug is better on dry fit. You can always plane the drawer or the runner later.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Second thought, might as well learn from my folly again. Back when I made the outdoor table, I decided to make a long groove and spacers for the mortises.









Well, this I've done this several times on indoor furniture, but I don't think it's a good idea for outdoor furniture:










Those gaps weren't there when I finished it. It seems the exposure to moisture is making those grooved boards open up like a taco. 









I doubt it will get a whole lot worse…and it's not a huge deal on an outdoor table. However, I would do something different next time.


----------



## jmartel

Can you clarify what we're looking at, Red? You're saying the Oak board with the dado in it spread open since it's been outside and the Ipe is supposed to be flush?


----------



## TheFridge

Red I'm disappointed. That router doesn't have coco knobs.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Can you clarify what we re looking at, Red? You re saying the Oak board with the dado in it spread open since it s been outside and the Ipe is supposed to be flush?
> 
> - jmartel


This gap should not be there:









And ya…the Ipe should be closer to flush.


----------



## jmartel

Got it. Sucks, but what can you do?

What glue did you use on it? TBIII?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yup. Titebond III. Not sure what can be done….nothing comes to mind. Not a huge deal in the function of the table though.


----------



## jmartel

Maybe go through and put dowels in each of spacers? Not sure what else would work other than maybe screws from the underside?


----------



## j1212t

Just in the shop now. It's early morning and I came to drink my coffee and smell the sawdust before I eat breakfast.

I really love my hobby, life's grand! Working on the top for the dresser, should have it done on Monday.


----------



## Pezking7p

You're a machine, jake.

Red, I'm having a hard time figuring out how to overcome that problem other than just making mortises rather than one long groove. Not easy to lay up but wouldn't show gaps.

Jmart, casework takes a ton of space. When I did cabinets they ended up in the house, taking up our entire dining room, while working on various parts. Probably moved them all back and forth 2-3 times each.


----------



## fatandy2003

Making progress on the boy's rocking plane. I need to get this thing assembled by tomorrow so I can start the finishing process.

Rockers assembled (They are currently on the finishing stand).










And the body. Glued the top wing on about 20 minutes ago.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, I m having a hard time figuring out how to overcome that problem other than just making mortises rather than one long groove. Not easy to lay up but wouldn t show gaps.
> 
> - Pezking7p


Ya, I'm sure if I would have made individual mortises that wouldn't have happened. Actually, I nearly just made a rabbet for the Ipe slats to rest in. Then I could have used some of those tiny head stainless screws to hold the ipe slats in place. Might have been better for outdoor furniture. Work and learn.

Started a little tea tray for the wifey-poo.


----------



## jmartel

Rockler is having 25% off in-stock lumber starting today, so I picked up about 13-14bdft of Walnut and a big can of Arm-r-Seal. Got a bunch of trim milled up, and should be able to start mounting it to the cases tomorrow. I've got shelf holes drilled already in the 2 end cabinets.


----------



## fatandy2003

Lots of progress this weekend…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^I'll say. That thing is sweet Andy.


----------



## jmartel

Sweet. When's the test flight?


----------



## jmartel

Face frames are on the 2 end cabinets. Middle one will be put on tomorrow night. They are stacked right now to save space. Middle cabinet is stood up on one end behind them. I've drilled shelf pin holes on the end cabinets already, and need to do the middle cabinet tomorrow as well. Unfortunately the new shelf pin jig is too long to fit in the middle cabinet.










Nice tight joints. Don't know why it took me so long to build a shooting board in the first place. The opening under the lower shelf of the cabinets will be filled in with scrap ply. It will eventually be covered up by molding anyway.


----------



## TheFridge

Lookin good. Workin wood. Makin $. Like a boss.


----------



## jmartel

The problem with projects that I make money off of, is I not only spend all of the profit money on tools, I usually end up spending more than the profit on tools. Fairly certain I've already spent more than the money I'm getting from this build.


----------



## j1212t

Well, at least you made some money for toys, which is all that really matters.  Good progress so far.

I spent a busy weekend on the dresser.

Glued up the top which consists of 21 scrap pieces I had from the crib project.








Milled the material and made the top frame for the dresser








Used a router and tablesaw to make the drawer pull stock (still some sanding to do on it before I cut them out)









Fitted all the drawer fronts exactly into their respective openings









This is how it looks from the side









Pretty pleased with the result so far, but still a fair bit to do, even though it feels like I am on the very end of the project. Need to fit the top into the dresser top frame. Sand the top down to flat-ish (I don't dare to take my plane to it, highest angle I could put on there is my LA with a 38 degree blade) Finish sand all the drawer fronts and drawer pulls. Glue in the wood runners for the small drawers.

Then I need to clean the shop and get started on finishing and the very last step is attaching the drawers.  Hopefully next week I can post a project!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice job Jake. It's the extra effort on little things like the curve on the top drawer fronts that make the piece.



> The problem with projects that I make money off of, is I not only spend all of the profit money on tools, I usually end up spending more than the profit on tools. Fairly certain I ve already spent more than the money I m getting from this build.
> 
> - jmartel


Jmart- If you have any pegboard scraps I've used those for custom small pin guides. And, it just goes that way early on when you don't have a lot of tools. For example, you won't need to buy a tablesaw again. But in a couple years you'll look around and ask yoursellf, "How the heck did I get all these nice tools?"


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Lawl- My first typo said, "if you have pegboard craps." Doh!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Small detail on a build that's not near what Jake and Jmart are doing (wow, that's great stuff!)


----------



## jmartel

Red, Pegboard was the plan. I still have some laying around in the sheet goods bin. Just didn't feel like messing with it yesterday while the other 2 cabinets were having the face frames glued on. I have lots of tools, I'm just in the process of replacing crappy ones that I bought when starting out. I'm at the point now where I just would rather buy new and buy good quality. Even if it costs a lot more. I can't obviously do that for every tool, but I've never been disappointed when I did that.

Smitty, I wouldn't say my build is that nice. It's just massive, and uses nice plywood. I'm certainly behind Red still on the skill level. Joinery is quite simple being just dado & rabbet joints so far. Doors will probably be M&T, but that's about the most complicated it gets. For reference, your dovetails look a heck of a lot better than mine do. Hence why I haven't used them in a project yet.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^"Comparison is the thief of joy." Think ol' Teddy Roosevelt said that.

Dry fit. Gluing up the bottom.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Wow!

You all have some really nice projects going on. Very impressive!


----------



## jmartel

Plus, my wife has decided in the past few weeks that she hates her job and now is looking into going back to school for a bit for programming, so my tool budget is going to drop to 0 in September if she gets accepted. Need to buy as many tools and as much wood as I can before then. Luckily, it wouldn't cost us anything for her to do this program, aside from her quitting her job and giving up that income. Any spending money over bare bones food/gas stuff for both of us would have to come from me making and selling things.

At this point, I've got 2 other coworkers who have expressed interest in wanting things, so I may have a murphy bed cabinet build in a few months, and a couple of tables after that.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Smitty- I've got a growing appreciation for beads. I needs me one of those things.

Also, LJ Lateralus gave me a heads up on a circular plane. Can't wait to get my hands on it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I have a extra, Red. Earlier Japanned Type, with brass, needs cutters. PM if interested, if not that's fine too.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Red - if you get it from Smitty and need a couple of cutters, send me a shop drawings with cutter dimensions and I can try to make a couple for you.


----------



## Mosquito

As long as we're on the subject… are the cutters (scrapers?) for those just spring steel? I've got some saw plate off cuts left that I was thinking about using for a shop built one


----------



## Hammerthumb

I was thinking tool steel Mos, but you might be right. It might be spring steel.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Maybe Smitty can tell us how thick the cutter is.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

"Not very," is the unscientific answer. And I don't have a caliper… Seems to be thinner than sawplate mtl, though. But I bet that'd work as stock to make custom // replacement cutters. The tool with hold thicker cutters for sure.


----------



## Hammerthumb

So they are more like a blade than a cutter? I guess that it could be made out of an old card scraper also. Or maybe an old saw blade.

I have made old scraper blades trapped between 2 pieces of wood for cutting very small grooves for inlays. Works well.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Smitty- does it have the necessary fences? If so I'm definitely interested.

Paul- I'd hate to bug you when I can buy a set of cutters from the new makers.

Got my no 113 today. Pretty stoked. Coulda used this bugger on those outdoor table legs. I'll be givin it a shot my future curved parts.


----------



## lateralus819

Youre welcome Dan . Hope it serves you well bud. It looks like a very nice piece.


----------



## jmartel

Nice. I'd be interested in buying one in the future most likely. Seems like it would be more useful than a spokeshave on larger parts.

Do they do convex curves as well?


----------



## lateralus819

They do both Jmart.

I sold one to the old fart. Pretty neat planes. I had no use for it.


----------



## lateralus819

They do both Jmart.

I sold one to the old fart. Pretty neat planes. I had no use for it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

This was an ebay BIN deal Lat showed me. I messaged back and forth with the guy. He was a cabinet maker and had this plane for over 40 years. I like it just that much more now.


----------



## jmartel

Used my LV router plane for the first time tonight. Had a dado that I guess had raised up a bit so the spline wasn't sitting in it deep enough. Haven't even sharpened/honed the cutters yet. I can see this being a very useful tool to have.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice. I ended up selling the 113 I had, as I had it for over a year and never used it once. Maybe if I ever start using more large or gentle curves in the future…


----------



## j1212t

Got the top fitted yesterday, needs some more finish sanding, then i'll go ahead and fix it on there. Literally seeing the finish line on the project. A metric ton of sanding left and I am good to go for cleaning up shop and finishing.










I know what my next tool purchase will be as well - a Veritas LA smoother with a 38 degree toothed and a 50 degree blade. The Oak I am using has a lot of character (knots) so a regular 38 degree blade on a jack quite often tears out)

Really want to cut down on the sanding, planing is so much more enjoyable.


----------



## JayT

Looks good, Jake. You might also consider a scraper of some kind for wood like that. Scraper plane would be easiest to use, but even a card scraper will save a lot of sanding and not tear out.

Jmart, router planes are awesome. Love using mine.


----------



## jmartel

Face frame on the center cabinet will be completed tonight, and then it's off to working on the uppers.

They picked some upper molding last night. Going with this:










But, I don't want to use up the 8/4 I have, so I'll probably just glue up 4/4 stock. Looks like face grain on the front face and end grain on the left and right, so a glue up would work.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ohh, I like that cabinet design.

Spent a couple hours this morning in LJ Arlin Eastman's shop. Arlin's been teaching me how to turn a bit. I'm decent with carbide tools, but this morning Arlin showed me how to use a bowl gouge. Good times were had by all;-)


----------



## jmartel

> ^ohh, I like that cabinet design.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Figured you would. Reminds me a lot of the kitchen island I posted a while back that you had a woodgasm over. I still love this design.


----------



## Pezking7p

^^^^sploosh


----------



## jmartel

Fun making wispies tonight.










Got the face frame finished on the center cabinet. Of course one of the cats decided he wanted to explore, so the fat b-tard is in the photo.


----------



## drob

@Gwjames

I grew up in Gulfport, MS and was married in Lyman (off of Robinson Rd) in 1990. I just moved back after being gone about 25 years. I am currently living off of Oneal Rd, but in the process of buying a place in Saucier in Desoto.

I had wanted to make a chest out of "Eastern" red cedar a couple of months ago. Found a place in Hattiesburg (Economy Supply, been in business since 1941). Talked to them a few times on the phone to make sure they had "eastern" red cedar. Last response was "I'm standing here looking at it right now". Drove the hour there to stand in front of a very large selection of "western" red cedar. After explaining to the employee the difference, another employee came up and said the truck that delivers it has "western" red cedar in big letters on the side of the truck. Wasn't happy.

My aunt lives behind Dedeaux clan furniture and Catfish Charlies (She also owns the Subway on the CB base). I'll have to go there tomorrow to check them out.

Been pretty aggravated at the local wood selection, especially since living in NC and the north east for a while. I even resorted to ordering some cherry from homedepot.com.

Oh, one place of interest. I went to Newman lumber off of Lorrainne Rd. The friendly chap gave me a tour as well as a block of 8/4 Peruvian Walnut and a large piece of 8/4 Genuine Mahogany.

I used the cherry, some of the mahogany, and a little red oak in the attached box I made my wife for xmas.

Later,

Dave











> I would bet you have driven past my old place hundreds of times. We owned the corner of property between old hwy 49 and john clark rd Across from the Nugent Methodist Church. 45 acres. All family land. Sold out about 12 years ago and they put up some money homes. I used to spend all my free time on the bridge on the old 49 side shooting snakes.
> 
> Depending on how long you have lived there we may have met. When I was a teen I worked in the lumber dept at West building supplies.
> 
> Glad to meet you.
> 
> My father in law works on the base as a civil servant. somethingsomethin communications.
> 
> GW,
> Just curious, where do you live in SoMs? I was born and raised in Lyman then took a job in Winston Salem NC and have been here for 8 years. I had to learn to cook when I moved. The food here sucks in comparison. Also, where do you get your hardwood? I always went to Dedeaux Clan (because no one else really is in the market).
> 
> We will be traveling back in July to stock up on good ingredients for my gumbo, to buy a table saw from my former boss and to…something else…oh yeah, visit the in-laws.
> 
> I live in southern mississippi
> 
> - Gwjames
> 
> - SirIrb
> 
> well I am a Seabee so im stationed down in Gulfport, but I live in lyman. I buy all my harwood from dedeaux clan, from my experience theyre all pretty good guys, they help me out any time I need a tool that I don t have. theyre happy to give advice and things im working on or letting me use their planer or band saw. I like giving my business to the little guy. prices aren t cheap but not much of a choice anyway.
> 
> as far as the bread board ends for my coffee table design, I am still learning a lot in the way of expansion and contraction, and what im learning is that I have been doing it wrong haha. I saw a video of marc spagnuolo putting a bread board in a table he was building and the way he did it was to mortise out the end grain and the straight grain then put in loose tenons in the breadboard side and glue it all the way up on that side and only glue in the center on in the end grain. so I think I will try that but I will glue the in-lay walnut to the red oak bread board, then mortise it out and try his way. I hope that works because I really like the walnut in-lays in the design and don t want to stray away from that.
> 
> does any one have experience in using table top fasteners? I have always just glued down my table tops and clamp them, but now that I am researching I have found that is not a good practice due to expansion and contraction, but the concept of table top fasteners just seems like it wouldn t hold the table top down tight enough, in my head I feel like the fasteners would get loose over time and your table top in turn would be loose… what is your experiences with this?
> 
> - Gwjames
> 
> - SirIrb


----------



## fatandy2003

Second Coat of Danish Oil applied. I will dub Saturday "Wipe On Poly Day."


----------



## DanKrager

That plane is SO cool, Andy! That HAS to be an heirloom for sure, though I bet by then it will look like it's been to war. I saw something a while ago that the next plane just GOTTA have…a rubber band Gatling gun. I'm an old bugger and I would have a lot of fun with that!

DanK


----------



## jmartel

+another vote for the rubber band gatling gun.


----------



## Sprung

That plane is awesome! Are there planes for it somewhere, or is it your own design? And, agreed on the rubber band gatling gun - it needs one!

Hopefully soon I'll be able to start posting more to this thread - got a bunch of furniture projects to build this summer.

Made a lumber run last night. Scored a nice pile of miscellaneous lumber for $100 - and made a real nice contact for where I'll be sourcing most of my lumber in the future - walnut under $3/BF? Yes, please! There is some nice furniture in this pile…










I'll be sorting this pile in a couple days and adding it to my stacks. In the last year I've managed to spend about $650 spread out over several purchases to acquire over 500 BF of lumber. And I've used almost nothing as I've been getting my shop set back up after moving last year. Within a week or two my shop will be ready to roll and I plan to start - and finish - a number of furniture projects before I have to shut down the shop for the winter. I might have a lot of questions for y'all…


----------



## CFrye

Andy, Awesome! 
LJ, William blogged about building a rubber band gatling gun here. Includes a link to where he purchased the plans he used. 
Nice pile, Matt.


----------



## fatandy2003

Yeah, rubber band guns are on my list. Best way to teach "gun control" is to start 'em young.

Matt, the rockers are made from modified plans I have for a rocking horse that I made for my daughter a few years back. I had to adjust where the cross supports are to distribute the weight. The rest is based loosely on the design of a WWI SPAD biplane with some help of google images for other rocking airplanes. The biggest challenge in design was where to put the seats and the wings in order to make it look right, but still have an even weight distribution when the boys are on it. It's not done yet, so I haven't been able to conduct a test flight. There is still time to fail miserably 

Cheers,


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yep Andy, that plane is pretty much made of awesome. Thanks for posting that.

Sprung- so your the one who's been snatching up all the lumber deals in the midwest;-) Nah, I should look for deals like that more often. I used to worry about getting ripped off, but I think I know enough about hardwoods to get by now. Looking forward to your builds.

I had a little mishap on the tea tray yesterday:









I was trying to rout a stopped groove for the bottom, and the darn piece slipped of of the bench dogs holding it (not square on the ends). In retrospect, a slot cutter bit on the router table would have been smarter. Or….just the good ol' router plane. Oh well, already fixed it.

Now I've got the bottom all glued up. Little flatten….little smooth. might be bustin out some glue today;-)


----------



## Sprung

> Sprung- so your the one who s been snatching up all the lumber deals in the midwest;-) Nah, I should look for deals like that more often. I used to worry about getting ripped off, but I think I know enough about hardwoods to get by now. Looking forward to your builds.
> - BigRedKnothead


Just a few of the ones in southwest Minnesota - I haven't crossed state lines into your state for a deal. At least not yet!  I'm just thankful to now be in a place where such deals can be found - and thankful when I have the cash to act on them, because sometimes the tool and wood fund is full of only wishful thinking, and that don't buy much. My best haul was probably the roughly 350 BF of 4/4 soft maple I pretty much stole for $115 - or about 33 cents/BF. When we lived in ND the only place I could get hardwood lumber was a supplier in Fargo. He was a real nice guy and I always enjoyed shooting the breeze when I stopped in, but some of his prices were painful. Came across one deal on CL in two years of watching out there…

My first project when I get the shop put back together is going to be either an aquarium stand of walnut with either a Mission or Shaker influence in the design. Or a small hall table. Might do the small table first to refresh my rusty skills.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Nice. I love me some soft maple. Now get on that hall table;-)

Schwarz has some excellent blogs. This has got to be on of my favs. That dude and I must have been cut from the same cloth:

" It reinforced something that I have long thought but have never expressed: Making furniture and making music is similar…..
Me, I'm a more of a punk furniture maker. I have little interest in high-style pieces that were made for the ultra-rich - things that are elaborate and require immense technical skill. Yeah, I respect the hands and the training needed to carve a Newport shell or create a hunting scene in marquetry. But it has no connection to the way I live or my taste in objects."

http://blog.lostartpress.com/2015/04/29/arts-kraft-inc-furniture/


----------



## Sprung

I hadn't read that blog post from Schwarz before - definitely one worth reading and re-reading. Especially for some great inspiration when a project is getting you down.

It feels so good to be letting the lathe, which is in the basement, sit for a while - even though I've got a few projects that I need to finish up on it in the next couple weeks - and back out in the garage shop with the door open. Currently cleaning up and rearranging.

I do have a question for everyone. The hall table I'm going to build will have some natural edges. I'm not normally a fan of natural edge, but this piece is too awesome to cut the edges off of - when I was stacking the lumber in my garage the first thought I had when I saw it was that it needs to be used as a small natural edge table top. It's actually got me excited to build a natural edge piece. I can't wait to get some danish oil on this piece either…

How does everyone go about sanding the natural edge? I'd like to clean it up, but don't want to be overly aggressive and ruin the natural edge.


----------



## jmartel

I would agree with that, with exception to the marquetry stuff. I think that's just darn cool. I don't care for the traditional frilly french marquetry, though it still impresses me. I like the scenes that could just have easily been a photograph or painting.


----------



## summerfi

Work on the new saw till has begun. The bottom board is in clamps. Why is this in the furniture forum you ask? Well, follow along and you'll see in time. This will be a slow project though. I have so many springtime home projects going that I can only work on this an hour here and there.

Duckmilk, my lumber's dry. You have to change your signature line now. ;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I do have a question for everyone. The hall table I m going to build will have some natural edges. I m not normally a fan of natural edge, but this piece is too awesome to cut the edges off of - when I was stacking the lumber in my garage the first thought I had when I saw it was that it needs to be used as a small natural edge table top. It s actually got me excited to build a natural edge piece. I can t wait to get some danish oil on this piece either…
> 
> How does everyone go about sanding the natural edge? I d like to clean it up, but don t want to be overly aggressive and ruin the natural edge.
> 
> - Sprung


Surprised there wan't more input on natural edges. I've only used them a couple times. I cleaned them up a little with a plastic brush, about the coarseness of a toothbrush. Then I used some compressed air to get any dirt out.


----------



## j1212t

Little teaser for me from yesterday. First coat of shellac on the dresser top:









And the drawer fronts









The colour is off on the photos but you can see most of the figuring. I'll have my wife take proper pictures once it's all said and done, there's a lot more figure in the dresser than I could capture with my camera phone. Anyhow, few more days and then the dresser will have a new home in our baby room.


----------



## Sprung

> Surprised there wan t more input on natural edges. I ve only used them a couple times. I cleaned them up a little with a plastic brush, about the coarseness of a toothbrush. Then I used some compressed air to get any dirt out.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Thanks, Red - hadn't even thought of using a soft brush. Have a few on hand and will give it a try. Haven't done any natural edge pieces yet as it's not necessarily the look that appeals to me, yet when I pulled this piece out of the pile, the very first thing that came to mind was a small natural edge table.


----------



## Iguana

So, I finally finished and delivered the dining room table I had been working on. Walnut, with extensions that pull out from the ends.










Getting the pull-out butterfly-leaf extensions to work with the style and location of the legs took a bit of thinking, but it all came together.










Underbevelling was a bit of a chore on the large slab, too 









Full details in the project post at http://lumberjocks.com/projects/150354


----------



## summerfi

That's beautiful Mark. Innovative design and super nice work.

I got the pieces for the main carcass of my new saw till glued up, cut to rough size and planed. Progress is slow but steady.


----------



## jmartel

Dang that looks good, Mark


----------



## j1212t

That looks amazing Mark!


----------



## ShaneA

Good work fellas. I would have to say that I am a fan of edge gluing a bit of sap wood and using in the middle or inside of a piece, if the style of the piece can handle it.


----------



## mochoa

Hey Guys, I thought I would post an update of my first big commission job. Going slow but the client is very patient.

You might recall I'm making a version of this desk. 









I've got both cabinets assembled and the face frames attached on one of them. 









I'm debating on box jointed plywood vs. dovetailed poplar drawers. DT's would be hand cut. I'm scarred of the amount of time this would take but they would be through DT's with false fronts on the drawers… Maybe just DT the front and rabbet and dowel the backs.

Also debating on slides. I think the smaller drawers will be fine riding on the dust frames but I'm thinking the large drawers may need mechanical slides.

I know very similar discussions have been taking place around here lately.

I welcome any advise you guys may have.


----------



## Iguana

> ... Maybe just DT the front and rabbet and dowel the backs…


^ this.

Don't even need to use dowels. Nails.

Or use a drawer lock joint.

And yeah, I'd use slides for the large drawers.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Maur- at the same time, if you know your not getting paid for dovetails, and/or the client might go "oh, that's kinda neat" then don't invest the time just because you like dovetails. There are many quality joints, and nearly all are better than what they'll get at the furniture mart.

Mark- Handworks is like 10 days away, I'm getting pumped!


----------



## mochoa

thanks for the advice Guy.

I called the shop that made the model in the picture, he drawers are dovetailed pine, machine cut I am sure.

I didn't get any direction from the client, she is the most laid back client ever, she wants custom furniture but doesn't really care much about the details.that's good but it kind of leaves me guessing on the details and I don't want to ask too many questions cuz I don't want to plant ideas that arent there.

my gut tells me to use birch ply and box joints, but something just bugs me about it, I don't know if you will match the feel of the rest of the desk.


----------



## mochoa

Hand works looks sweet! take plenty of pics.


----------



## Iguana

Red, I'm already pumped. We're jumping in the car Saturday morning and heading southeast. Three days driving to get to Omaha then a bit of a rest before heading to Amana.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mark, I feel a little bad you have to drive three days and I only have to drive three hours;-) It'll be cool to meet up.

If anyone else is going to Handworks be sure to say hello. I'm the 6'6" redhead with a beard. Hard to miss.

Bob- get crackin. It's lonely being the only guy with "furniture quality" stuff in his shop…lol.

Finished my wife's tea tray today, so it will be waiting for her when she gets home from her treatment. I'll try to get a project post up later.


----------



## jmartel

Birds eye maple, nice. Red, I'm disappointed you didn't do super skinny London-style dovetails. And you call yourself a furniture maker.


----------



## summerfi

The tray looks sweet Red. I hope I can make dovetails like that when I grow up.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well Bob, you'll be on your way with the Gent's saws you make. Those saws work great for half-blinds.

I did stay in my comfort zone with these dovetails….as far as the size of the pins and all. That said, I took my time and nailed 'em. There isn't one shim.


----------



## jmartel

Just giving you crap, Red. Seems as though the first "must do" thing for high end stuff is hand cut dovetails, and then to kick it up a notch, you have to do the london dovetails where you can't even fit a 1/4" chisel in there to pare away. It looks great, I'm sure Heather (I think that's her name?) will love it. You should put a note on it that says "For Big Papa" after yesterday's photo.


----------



## john2005

Sweet table Mark, love the ingenuity.

Tray looks mighty fine there Big Red. Sure to please.


----------



## byerbyer

Nice work BRK. Wonderful early Mother's Day present!


----------



## summerfi

> Well Bob, you ll be on your way with the Gent s saws you make. Those saws work great for half-blinds.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Ya, I know. ;-)


----------



## ToddJB

^ Ha.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Touche Bob;-)

Before I get crackin on my next piece, I'm gonna give the blanket chest in my living room some TLC. The kids have been hard on it. Gotsta refinish the lid…. with even more poly this time. Also revise the hinges. I never mortised them the first go round, so I am now. Plus I'm adding a third(center) rockler torsion hinge. The original two don't seem to be enough for the heavy lid.


----------



## ToddJB

That's the top? You've got a really big chest.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^We ogres have really big blankets.


----------



## chrisstef

That's not what those purple boots said ^^


----------



## fatandy2003

Finito.


----------



## Iguana

Red, I like to drive. Some pretty scenic terrain on the way. Looking forward to testing the road engineering. Was hoping to head through Yellowstone, but the Beartooth isn't open yet :-(

Lovely tray. Nice choice in woods.


----------



## b2rtch

Big Red, this tray looks wonderful and I like the large DTs


----------



## RPhillips

> Finito.
> 
> 
> 
> - fatandy2003


Awesome Rocker Plane! Love it. Great job!


----------



## jmartel

Cut the joinery for the uppers tonight. Dry fitup.


----------



## Mahdeew

Hi, 
I am in the process of making my second outdoor bench and thought to share the process here. This is where I am at so far with the Teak Oil finish before assembly:


----------



## RPhillips

Nice Jmart, looking like you're off to a solid start… is that walnut ply?

Jinx, looking good!


----------



## jmartel

Rob,

Yes it's walnut ply. Expensive stuff. Luckily I've managed to not mess up any of the pieces yet, because any screw up and I'd have to buy a whole 'nother sheet. Uppers are being glued up today. I should be able to at least clamp them all together for a mockup tonight.


----------



## jmartel

It was a pain in the butt to put it all together by myself, but I got everything clamped up tonight to get an idea on full size. Face frames for the uppers starts tomorrow. Then trim, then doors, then finish. This was as good of a photo as I could get in the packed garage.


----------



## Mahdeew

RPhillips, thanks. 
jmartel, hope you have a helper with that project. Lot of work!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Good stuff Mrjinx. I'm kicking around building a bench like that.

Jmart- Seems like those plywood cases go together fast, then I spend that much time or more on door and drawers.

I think my aunt and Uncle have finally arrived at a design for their dining set. Hope to be starting that later this week.


----------



## jmartel

> Jmart- Seems like those plywood cases go together fast, then I spend that much time or more on door and drawers.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Yeah, luckily there's only going to be 6 doors. and they are all on the bottom. It would be worse if they wanted the doors to cover the uppers as well. And no drawers, which always helps.

The trim that they want is pretty straightforward, so it shouldn't take too long.


----------



## Mahdeew

BigRedKnothead,
Cool, I am still trying to figure out a better way to assemble the armrest to the back leg since the tenon from the front leg goes all the way through the armrest.


----------



## Barbancourt

jmartel,
how are you going to cover the seams in middle lower section where the TV will sit?


----------



## jmartel

There's a solid piece of ply that will cover the whole thing, 61"x28"ish. Same with the 2 lower end cabinets. Then a bit of solid trim on it and all the joints will be hidden.


----------



## Barbancourt

That makes sense.


----------



## summerfi

I'm taking advantage of a rainy day to make a little progress on the saw till. Still a long ways to go.


----------



## DanKrager

Lookin' good Bob, but that's gonna hold only about 50 saws or so. What are you going to do with the rest of them? 
DanK


----------



## summerfi

LOL Dan, you're pretty close on the quantity. I've been thinking I may outgrow it before it's finished. Maybe it's time to start planning the next one.


----------



## CL810

From Christopher Schwarz's blog.

The stuff in my book, the "Furniture of Necessity," has its roots planted in the past, but the leaves are new. The writing, which is about halfway done, is more in the vein of "The Anarchist's Tool Chest." Yes, the book is about one thing, but also another thing. *Which means the Lumberjocks will hate it*.

Wonder what that's about.


----------



## theoldfart

Seems a bit derogatory to LJ's to my mind. Guess we can't appreciate the subtlety in his musings.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> From Christopher Schwarz s blog.
> 
> The stuff in my book, the "Furniture of Necessity," has its roots planted in the past, but the leaves are new. The writing, which is about halfway done, is more in the vein of "The Anarchist's Tool Chest." Yes, the book is about one thing, but also another thing. *Which means the Lumberjocks will hate it*.
> 
> Wonder what that s about.
> 
> - CL810


I will give a little insight that might help. I'm about 99% sure Schwarz is refering to LJ Mafe's scathing review of the Anarchist's Tool Chest. (Mafe, if your reading, you know I've got nothin but love….I just disagree with your critique). You could look up that review if you want, but it's been edited and loses some of the effect.

Anyway, Schwarz even referred to the review in his blog: http://blog.lostartpress.com/2011/08/21/you-are-doing-it-wrong/

So, that's the background. That said, I actually can't blame Schwarz or others for not being a fan of woodworking forums. The trolls are especially ridiculous to people in the limelight. This blog post talks about that: http://blog.lostartpress.com/2014/11/29/mrs-frisbee-will-eat-your-eyes-out/

And he's right. Even the comments on his own blog have me scratching my head. People are goofy. The trolls on LJs nearly ran me off early on.

I haven't spent a lot of time with Chris, but by all accounts….the guy is a class act. Little things like a handwritten thank you note affirm that, to me anyway.


----------



## CL810

Mafe's review was the only negative event I could remember or find. I think his contributions to woodworking are undeniable. I've been around him several times and found him to be friendly and approachable. Has a bit of an ego, but that's ok; probably necessary if you do the things he does. This is the first time I've detected this kind of attitude.

Disappointed, but hell, I'd like to take back more than a few things I've said before…...


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Andy, I really do think it's just a little dig because he's had some negative experience with Ljs and other forums. The review was one instance, but I know there has been plenty of mud slung his way on forums. I've read much of it, and I always think it's unfortunate. It's his personal blog. He's gonna make wisecracks and express opinions.

It's very likely that I don't come down hard on Schwarz because I can be a smart aleck with an ego too. And you'd really see them come out if you read some of the troll-like pm's I've gotten in the past….. lawl.

Anyway, made a lumber run today. The upcoming dining set commission will look something like this. 









Except walnut base and cherry top. I'm all pumped to get working on it.


----------



## Sprung

Bob, that saw till is looking nice. Great work.

Red, for some reason your pic isn't showing up - but I'll be looking forward to seeing the table build progress.

And you've got cherry down your way? Man, I'm grabbing a trailer and driving south… Doesn't grow around here, so I haven't found any for a reasonable price. Sub-$3/BF walnut, yes. Reasonably priced cherry, no… I do know of someone local who has some cherry, though not a lot, but I don't know his price yet - and he only has some because he brought a couple logs back with him on a trip he took to WI.


----------



## jmartel

I like that table, Red. I feel like the legs need something else done to them though. Either a 2-sided taper in the inner 2 faces or a curve like on the chair legs. It looks good as is, but I think it could be better.

Sprung, I would kill for a steady supply of walnut under $3/bdft. #1 common is $5, but it's almost unusable for lengths longer than 36", and normal stuff is ~$9-10/bdft now.


----------



## j1212t

My next commission sketch:









3/8 pine carcass, 2" live edge spruce top. All the corners are DT'd, top will be half blinds. The whole things is 102 inches long, highest part is 42". The side on the right will have a fold down table - folding on the top with 2 table legs which are firmly attached and will be against the wall when it is folded up. Can't be bothered to make a new sketch, hope I am clear enough.

Only question I have is about finishing - the top will be a dark oil-varnish mix but the sides are a white stain. *So what I am wondering is do I try to fit the DT's exactly, plane them down, disassemble and then finish separately or could I glue it up and then tape off the pins/tails?*

Anyhow, material is arriving in a few hours, will need to finish a previous project today-tomorrow and then starting the commission on saturday. Should be a few week project


----------



## Mosquito

Matt, how far SW in MN? I've been starting to buy Rough sawn (slab) Cherry for $3.50/bf from a guy in the Twin Cities.


----------



## DanKrager

Man, you who are within 500 mi of Olney IL could find it worthwhile to bring a large truck or trailer. There is a sawmill near here with an outstanding kiln operator and sells FAS dressed 3S of all the domestic hardwoods of the area (walnut, cherry, red oak, ash, white oak, poplar, Kentucky Coffee, basswood, etc) and the highest price I've seen is $2.25 bdft the last time I was there. Like any commodity, things change, but he's always been the best price for the quality. BTW, it's all 13/16, nothing more. From time to time he has some thinner secondary woods. If you buy big quantity, then he'll negotiate…if he feels like it.

The trick is…you have to be there to load it yourself from the TOP of the pile 7-10 am Saturday unless you are buying a semi-load. If you are interested, PM me. 
http://www.hiteshardwoods.com/contact.html
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I like that table, Red. I feel like the legs need something else done to them though. Either a 2-sided taper in the inner 2 faces or a curve like on the chair legs. It looks good as is, but I think it could be better.
> - jmartel


Funny Jeff, adding and inside taper to the legs what a suggestion my aunt liked. Then table legs will match the front chair legs. Also, I might talk them out of the details on the apron.

Sprung- There is some cherry around here, but the logs aren't usually great quality. Here's a good Northern Iowa source that won't be near as far a drive for you: http://www.scandinavian-sawmill.com/lumber.htm


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Only question I have is about finishing - the top will be a dark oil-varnish mix but the sides are a white stain. *So what I am wondering is do I try to fit the DT s exactly, plane them down, disassemble and then finish separately or could I glue it up and then tape off the pins/tails?*
> 
> Anyhow, material is arriving in a few hours, will need to finish a previous project today-tomorrow and then starting the commission on saturday. Should be a few week project
> 
> - Jake


Jake, I don't believe there's a right or wrong answer for that. I've done it both ways with joints. The problem I ran into with staining prior to glueup, is that I always need to plane flush or scrape glue squeeze out….and I end up scraping off some of the stain. So, I wind up touching up the stain, which isn't a huge deal. I probably prefer this method.

The taping method is time consuming and will only work as good as the quality of your tape.(the stain will bleed behind cheap tape) In the states we have a great product called Frog Tape. You might not have access to that, so just get the best painters tape you can find.

Hope that helps you decide.


----------



## jmartel

It also looks like it has a bit of asian influence. Maybe a reverse taper on the legs would look good as well? Either way, I'm sure it will look great. Especially with Walnut and Cherry.

Jake, I've seen people apply stain with small artist's paintbrushes before. Perhaps that would work for staining after glueup?


----------



## Oosik

I actually own this table, and eventually like to rebuild it since my kids scratched the heck out of the veneer on the top. I'd be curious to see how you build the chairs and might end up bugging you on the build process.



> Andy, I really do think it s just a little dig because he s had some negative experience with Ljs and other forums. The review was one instance, but I know there has been plenty of mud slung his way on forums. I ve read much of it, and I always think it s unfortunate. It s his personal blog. He s gonna make wisecracks and express opinions.
> 
> It s very likely that I don t come down hard on Schwarz because I can be a smart aleck with an ego too. And you d really see them come out if you read some of the troll-like pm s I ve gotten in the past….. lawl.
> 
> Anyway, made a lumber run today. The upcoming dining set commission will look something like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except walnut base and cherry top. I m all pumped to get working on it.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Oosik. I'm sure I'll post a lot of the progress here. Maybe a big blog on my site when I'm done.

There's really not a lot to reinvent with this style of chair. I've made my own set of chairs inspired by Kevin Rodel's plans in a Fine Woodworking book. I'll use the same construction elements on these chairs. Really, the only differences between the Rodel chair and those above are just stylistic (swoop/shape of legs. back slats, solid seats).

Rodel chair:


----------



## Sprung

> Matt, how far SW in MN? I ve been starting to buy Rough sawn (slab) Cherry for $3.50/bf from a guy in the Twin Cities.
> 
> - Mosquito


I'm in the small town of Sanborn - about 2 hours SW of the Cities. I get up to the Cities often enough for quick up and back trips for work that I could easily incorporate a stop for cherry while I'm up there. Does your guy have a website or what is the best way to contact him?



> Sprung- There is some cherry around here, but the logs aren t usually great quality. Here s a good Northern Iowa source that won t be near as far a drive for you: http://www.scandinavian-sawmill.com/lumber.htm
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Hmm, those are great prices and that's only about 3 hours away. Thanks for the heads up on them - that would be a good option for borrowing a trailer and taking a day trip with my family with a stop on the way for some cherry lumber. Plus we've been looking for an excuse to take a day trip somewhere south of us to explore the area, now that it's starting to be nice outside.

Since my primary need for cherry is as part of the bedroom set I'm going to start building for my wife next year, I'm wanting to see about getting some later this summer. I've got the soft maple I need for the build. I've got about 35BF of curly cherry that I'll resaw and use for inset panels, once it's finished drying. Just need to get some regular cherry for secondary/side panels where I won't necessarily need or want to use the curly cherry.


----------



## mochoa

Red, dinning room set is an ambitious undertaking, no doubt you can do it though. are the seats square meaning no angled tenons? that would help a lot.

I've met Schwarz, great guy, no ego that I could detect, I think its just his writing style that can seem that way. I for one love his writing style, I'm behind on his blog but always enjoy reading it.

Im going to be all over that furniture of necessity book, its a topic that I have a lot of interest in.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Actually Maur, the chair frames will have some angled joinery. It's extra work but I believe it's worth it for the comfort the chair. 









You can see here, only the side rails are angled. I'll do loose tenons either with the mortising machine or the router.


----------



## mochoa

Gotcha, yeah making a jig to rout the mortices would be the way to go. Any plans for buying a Domino Red? I got to say, its tempting, I've thought hard about saving for one with my commission funds.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, the kids chairs I made had the same geometry but I used offset dowels. Worked quite well.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Maur- of course a Domino would shave hours off, maybe three or four in this case. But man, at that pricetag….I dunno. 
I know, I should just sell my mortiser and tablesaw and get a domino and track saw…lol. It would save shop space.


----------



## mochoa

What is the XL costing, $1300?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Something like that. I'm pretty sure Festool does a refurbished sale every fall. That'd be the time to take that plunge.

Last time I did chairs with angled loose tenons I didn't think it was that bad. We'll see.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Project post done, tables and bench DELIVERED.



Client very pleased, that's always good too!


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, one of the things to think about carefully is how the tenons meet at the corners. There is a LOT of leg lost to the joint and the joint becomes its weakest point. Cross grain in both directions too. I've always worried about some 400 lb gorilla leaning back and driving the remainder of the leg into his kidney. Every chair like this that I've had in for repair had the back leg joint open and or broken.

Not saying you should do it, but just a reminder in case you forgot. Some time ago I mentioned how I built some chairs with a special laminated ring inside the frame that would absorb all the twisting forces of a chair leaning back, making the rear joint much more durable. Made two sets of these, both of which sit upon carpet and have held firmly since 1990 something. The one family has a 400 lb "gorilla". It took me a while to get used to the notion of him sitting on these chairs!

Also notice that on the chairs pictured in the set above, the front rung is an ankle biter. The Rodell chairs addressed this issue.

One other thing, dining room chairs on a carpet have a particularly short life span unless you "overbuild" them…and even then can be problematic.

Just some things from my experience. If you want to learn how to build durable furniture, repair some for many years. I don't care much what the "experts" say…I've seen durable and and I've seen junk and it's pretty easy to spot the difference from a ways off once you have done lots of repairs. Good luck.
DanK


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## BigRedKnothead

Shoot Dang….Smitty's already done! That seemed fast on our end;-)

Dan, you bring up some good points there. A couple thoughts back:
- lower stretchers really reinforce a chair imo. Although, chairs look more classy/formal without them. 
- Thicker material makes a big difference. I've repaired my inlaws chairs where the back legs were cut from 5/4 material. That's just too thin. I prefer 1 1/2" thick min for legs and 5/4 for rails. Makes for some beefy m&t joints.

Basically, I'm in agreement to overbuild them. I did all that plus doweling all the m&t joints on my dining chairs. They're a little heavy, but they haven't shown any signs of creaking or flexing to date. Yay!;-)


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## CFrye

Red, that's a beautiful set. I don't think the corbels(?) really add anything to it but I really like the slats in the apron.
Smitty, what was the final hour tally?


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## BigRedKnothead

I couldn't even sleep in, I'm too excited. Handworks 2015 and Studley exhibit here we come. I'll try to take lots of pics and perhaps blog it.


----------



## CL810

Smitty, I recall some discussion on this thread about developing your estimate. Any lessons from that exercise you can share?


----------



## byerbyer

Looking forward to the Handworks pics. I really wanted to see the Studley exhibit, but it couldn't come at busier time for me. I may buy Virtuoso so I can "feel" like I've seen it…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I broke the hours into eight subtasks for each of the three pieces (table, buffet and bench). I know I'd take a hit on the bench, and I did; the single piece took an estimated 5.7 hours against a quote of 2.1. Total hours exceeded estimate by more than 25% overall. That sounds worse than it is; we're not actually talking a huge number of hours.

What were the biggest problem areas? The bench, the drawers and applying finishes.

All that said, I still realized about 70% of the hourly rate I initially sought.

Morale of the Story: Beware "Finishing," as it's the most visible part of the project and the inclination is to take more time to get it right. And, drawer slides suck to install (I need more practice with them).


----------



## CL810

I think factoring first commission and the objectives you set for the job that 70% is very good. I would bet you're very happy with that.

Has anyone worked with prima vera? Commonly called white mahogany.










I just started playing with this one board. Very easy to see why it's called white mahogany. Hope the picture lets you see that. Tear out is a challenge.


----------



## DanKrager

Thank you for all the time invested information, Smitty. And yes, Kilz-all was a good choice.

CL810, I had used that "white mahogany" stuff once and never missed using it again. it was stringy, worse than red elm IMHO, but other than that, kinda pretty. Finishes really well, especially if you use filler.
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

What can I say, spent the evening in a pub with Deneb Puchalski (and all the Lie Nielsen crew) Chris Vesper (Vesper Tools), Lee Marshall (Knew Concepts Inventor), David Jeske (Blue Spruce Toolworks), and more (shameless name dropping). It was pretty cool.

After that we got to hang out with LJ Mark Kornell and his wife. Needless to say, they are kindred spirits and just all around fine people. Even if tomorrow stinks, this was worth the trip.


----------



## CFrye

It is so much fun meeting LJ's in person! Thanks for sharing, Red!


----------



## walden

> I m taking advantage of a rainy day to make a little progress on the saw till. Still a long ways to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - summerfi


This looks great! Looking forward to seeing it full of saws.


----------



## summerfi

Thanks walden. It will look a lot different when it's done. Still a long ways to go.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Did I count room for about 28 saws? That till will be most massive, Bob. Looking great already.


----------



## Sprung

My first order of business in the shop this spring was to finish getting it put together. A small hall table and an aquarium stand were to follow that.

Instead, I'm building a small bookcase - about 3' tall, 2' wide. Our son's books currently reside in a plastic crate - making it hard to pick out books to read to him. My wife was getting frustrated with the crate today and said that we need shelves for his books. After asking her if she wanted me to build one, I got shot this glance that said, "Well, what're you doing standing here?!? Go build one!"

Came up with a design, pulled out some already planed walnut, rough cut it to length, jointed one edge with my Sargent 414 (since I'm still in the process of restoring both my #7 and the old 6" jointer I picked up last summer), then sticker stacked it and will continue working on it this week. A few smaller pieces are yet to be cut. Here's where the project currently stands:


----------



## summerfi

> Did I count room for about 28 saws? That till will be most massive, Bob. Looking great already.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Smitty, 27 handsaws. There will be smaller cabinets hung off of each side for backsaws. I'm estimating it will hold around 30 of them. So around 55-60 saws all together, give or take a few, plus small drawers for accessories..


----------



## Sunstealer73

My wife's cousin is getting married in November (she's directing the wedding.) They both still live at home and have no furniture yet. I told them I would make a coffee table and 2 end tables for them. I got some cherry off Craig's List a couple of weeks ago and started work Friday night. I have some Mission-style plans from Woodcraft, but am just using them as the base, mainly for sizing, dimensions, etc. They put way too many of the slats on the sides in my opinion. I've actually never done those style slats before, so I may ask for some help on here.

Here's the top glued up and roughed out:










Mortises all marked:










Mortises cut:










Hoping to start the rails in the next day or two. Still debating whether to saw curves into them or leave them square. Curves have always scared me, but I do have a new bandsaw.


----------



## jmartel

Sunstealer,

I made the end tables and a modified version of the coffee table from those plans. Let me know if you have any questions, I may be able to help.


----------



## Iguana

Studley yesterday was awesomely cool. Impossible to take good pics because of the low lighting. But definitely worth the price of admission.

Great to meet Red this weekend, hoping to get in a shop tour before I head home.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sunstealer- If you have a bandsaw, you should be good. Cut all your joinery first. Then figure the curve and just cut close to the line. I like to smooth curves with a spokeshave, but I used to use a ROS all the time.

Mark- Ditto. It was a really cool to meet you and your wife. Really enjoyed our time together. We'll make the shop tour and perhaps a meal at casa de Rojo happen this week.

My bloggy about the weekend. 
http://www.westfallwoodcraft.com/2015/05/handworks-2015-and-mr-studley.html


----------



## j1212t

Just pulled the trigger on a Veritas 14 TPI Dovetail saw (as per Paul Seller's recommendation) need to cut 13,8 linear feet of dovetails in my new commission. So my crappy ol' gent's saws aren't an option anymore.

Surfacing the large slabs this week and cutting everything down to size, as soon as my saw and other toys arrive, I am going to cut them all out in one go. Luckily it's in pine, so it won't be too bad. Pretty excited, will post pics as soon as I get started.

Still haven't done a project on the dresser I finished a few weeks back. Will do it at some point.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I was contacted by a friend of my 'Farmhouse Table' client, asking if I was interested in building another set.


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## jmartel

And that's how it starts, Smitty. Maybe add another 10-20% of price to this one since you underbudgeted the last one's hours?


----------



## Mosquito

Awesome Smitty!


----------



## ToddJB

That's great news.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I kept notes of actual hours against the quote detail, ala Dan K, and will use that to get this second price together. Schedule won't change, price will by a bit, yep.


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## jmartel

Well you're one step ahead of me. I've never kept track of hours spent on a project.


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## mochoa

Cool smitty! But I bet the next set get made much faster than the last.


----------



## Buckethead

^^^

First job pays for learning curve.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The idea was to track 'productive time,' so while this go-round will see improvement in a couple areas it shouldn't be huge. And there were a couple 'misses' that will be fixed in the estimate, too. And finally, there is a change to process I'll make: tops will be last, so that 2x material has more time to adjust to life outside the lumberyard.


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## DanKrager

Great work, Smitty! Glad to hear it was worth the doing…keeping track of productive time. If you make it a habit without fail, you will soon be able to look at a potential project (carefully) and estimate the cost (selling price) on the fly within 1%. When talking with client they often first want to know how much it will cost and I'm VERY careful not to say a number until I know EXACTLY what they want. I've encountered those that think this is a delay tactic ruse to take advantage of their impatience and then I realize they should go to Ikea, and I tell them gently that. One can quickly detect the price shoppers whose only concern is price. I choose not to waste my time with them. I'm saying all this as a heads up…the second client is going to ask for changes that to them are important but will likely cost you more…if nothing else just to talk about it and expand the education. Just part of sales.
DanK


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## j1212t

great news Smitty! ! Hope you get all the business you can handle and some more!

Also any tips to help me get the almost 14 feet of DTs out as quickly as possible? I am doing hand cut, no plans on getting a jig any time. Only thing I could find was a simple jig to help keep the chisel at 90 while chopping out. Seems it would make it a lot quicker and more accurate.

Anything else I am missing? (I am doing the saw the line - fretsaw - chop the last part) should I just skip the fretsaw since its in pine and is just a waste of time?


----------



## Airframer

> Also any tips to help me get the almost 14 feet of DTs out as quickly as possible?
> 
> - Jake


More cutting and less typing will get them done a bit faster


----------



## TheFridge

Burn!


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## JayT

Sub-contract AF's son. He did some fantastic dovetails recently with a dull saw and pretend plane. Imagine what he's capable of with real tools.


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## DanKrager

+1 Eric!

I recommend don't skip the fret sawing of waste. It's much faster to pare the saw cut than to chip out the waste piece meal.

Just for fun, keep track of the time it takes you on the first one, the middle one and the last one. That alone should be a great encouragement. Don't need no fancy jigs.

But if you are inclined to subcontract….I've seen his work.

DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> great news Smitty! ! Hope you get all the business you can handle and some more!
> 
> Also any tips to help me get the almost 14 feet of DTs out as quickly as possible? I am doing hand cut, no plans on getting a jig any time. Only thing I could find was a simple jig to help keep the chisel at 90 while chopping out. Seems it would make it a lot quicker and more accurate.
> 
> Anything else I am missing? (I am doing the saw the line - fretsaw - chop the last part) should I just skip the fretsaw since its in pine and is just a waste of time?
> 
> - Jake


For jigs, are you speaking of dovetail jigs for routers? Or have you considered a David Barrron style dovetail guide that's been discussed here? You can make them yourself and those little bugger sped up my dovetails tremendously.

Here's what I'm talking about if you missed it:


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Also, a little tribute blog for Walt .

http://www.westfallwoodcraft.com/2015/05/brass-city-records-and-toolworks-leader.html

Some things need to be said. This was the man who sold me my first bench plane, and taught me so much more.


----------



## Airframer

What I found that sped mine up (besides having my boy cut them for me lol) is to cut all the like angles as a group. It really helps you get into a rhythm and helps with the muscle memory keeping them mostly consistent.

The boy is available for hire btw.. I must warn you though.. he can be pretty pissy around lunch and nap time..


----------



## CL810

Jake I suggest you consider a paring jig. Here's the one I made.









Link to Derek Cohen's jig.

It really helps with cutting crisp baselines. The backing board keeps your chisel from indenting the baseline. And you can be more aggressive chopping out the waste. You still want to cut the bulk of the waste away with a coping saw, then use the paring jig.


----------



## j1212t

> I must warn you though.. he can be pretty pissy around lunch and nap time..
> 
> - Airframer


That sounds a lot like me…



> Jake I suggest you consider a paring jig. Here s the one I made.
> - CL810


That's exactly what I had in mind, seemed like a good idea as well.

BRK - I do have a guide of a similar persuasion that I made. Mine is not all that well done though, so i might make it when I get everything else prepped and the saw hasn't arrived yet.

Thanks for all the good ideas!


----------



## jmartel

This talk about dovetail guides finally made me say screw it and just ordered one from David Barron. I made mine pretty quickly I guess so the 2 sides aren't quite at the same angle. I figure it's time to stop messing around and just suck it up and buy it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya Jeff, I've had some really good results with shop-made Barron guides, but I resigned to buying one as well. I had intended to get one at Handworks and save the shipping…but that didn't work out. He had sold out the first day. He said, "I've never sold 60 at a show before." I chuckled and said I should have warned him. So I just paid him for one he could send me when he got back t the UK.

We've spoke before on here about Barron's guides and how some people snub them as cheating or whatever. Not to beat that dead horse, but I kinda wondered how his stuff would be received at Handworks. Well, my blood pressure rose a bit when a well known toolmaker in a booth next to Barron referred to his goods as "trinkets." Sigh. I bit my tongue and walked away. My Godmother would be so proud…lol.

Of course I brought this up with David(in general…before the trinket comment) and he laughed it off as "Well that's there problem isn't it." He really doesn't care, and with all the positive feedback, why should he. David said something else that was really interesting: "I consider these 'professional' tools. I know lots of professional woodworkers in the UK who use them…even though the might not like me to tell everyone. They want speed and quality, that's what the guides provide."

Exactly! Speed and quality, the DT guides gave me both. I love the Schwarz too, but if he was really paying his bills with tool chests instead of writing books about it….. he might not spend all the time marking the tails individually;-)

Just some thoughts. I honestly don't care if you use a router jig or a hacksaw. Find whatever method is fun for you. The world could use more dovetails.


----------



## Mosquito

Red, do you have success using a western saw with the guide? I'd heard from others that it works best with a pull saw like he demo's with. Just curious


----------



## jmartel

My shop-made ones get me decent results. But there's enough of a difference between the 2 angles to where it's noticeable in use. So I figured buying a machined one would help solve that. Once I get my guide in and finish up the entertainment center, I may do a 30 days of dovetails challenge. Just something to get me in the right habit of using it.

I don't care that the purists will poo-poo on the guides. I like results. If I didn't care about the looks of hand cut vs router jig, I may have just bought a router jig and be done with it.

Mos, I think it really just depends on the set of your saw. Too much set and it will interfere. If you have a western saw with little set you should be fine. I used my 20tpi LV dovetail saw on my homemade ones just fine. LV states the set is 0.003" on them, so, a sheet of computer paper's worth of set.


----------



## j1212t

I'll see if I can have one shipped from the UK for a reasonable price. My DT saw is still on its 2000 mile journey. So I have time. But probably for these ill still freehand them. I got the 14tpi veritas so that might have too much set for the Barron guide. But Paul Sellers recommends the 14tpi and I don't argue with Paul when it comes to efficient hand tool use.


----------



## jmartel

Jake, the 14tpi has the same 0.003" set per side according to LV's website. So you should be fine.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, do you have success using a western saw with the guide? I d heard from others that it works best with a pull saw like he demo s with. Just curious
> 
> - Mosquito


The only problem I have with western saws is that the plate isn't tall enough and it hits the spine about 1/2" down. Not a big dig deal. By then I just move the guide aside and watch for my baseline….because the kerf is well established by then anyway.


----------



## RPhillips

> This talk about dovetail guides finally made me say screw it and just ordered one from David Barron. I made mine pretty quickly I guess so the 2 sides aren t quite at the same angle. I figure it s time to stop messing around and just suck it up and buy it.
> 
> - jmartel


This is why I haven't made one myself, I fear that I don't have the skills necessary to get it exactly as it should be. Thought about buying one myself, but I may give it a shot and see how it turns out.


----------



## ToddJB

I made mine on the tablesaw. Set the blade to where I wanted it, made a cut, flipped it around and made the other cut. Both sides should be at the exact angle.


----------



## JayT

> Red, do you have success using a western saw with the guide? I d heard from others that it works best with a pull saw like he demo s with. Just curious
> 
> - Mosquito


I use a western saw with mine and like it better than my Japanese saw. Don't have issues with depth of cut, due to the saw I use, but did have to take some set out so it wasn't rubbing up against tbe guide.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Had the pleasure of having one of my favorite furniture makers (also a lumberjock) over for lunch and a shop tour today. Here's Mark Kornell and I.










My belly pokes out after I eat too much pork tenderloin…lol.


----------



## terryR

^Nice LJ shot! I'm ordering more blue t-shirts today! 

Guys, try a cheapo flush cut saw with those DT guides…works great and only $20!


----------



## j1212t

Damn you guys with your suggestions and stuff. Just dropped 56,5€ on the Barron guide (that is with shipping)

Veritas guide would have been same price with shipping, but I trust you guys and your opinions. And your good views on Mr Barron helped it quite a bit as well. He answered exceptionally quickly. Hopefully the delivery is quick as well.


----------



## j1212t

> Damn you guys with your suggestions and stuff.
> - Jake


Eh… who am I kidding, I am beyond extatic to be able to have that in my toolbag and can't wait to knock out those 13,8 linear feet of dovetails with my new toys.  Hopefully my Veritas DT saw will be able to do it, i really don't want to get into Japanese saws yet, and that would be yet another thing I would have to order online.


----------



## jmartel

> Damn you guys with your suggestions and stuff.
> - Jake


Yeah, I have that same problem with this website as well.

Shipping must be expensive in Europe. It was $53 US across the pond and all the way to the northwest corner of the US. And the Euro is worth $1.50ish on the dollar.


----------



## j1212t

Shipping is costly to a place where almost nobody lives, that's the problem. Nobody ships here, which makes it costly. UK is 1600 miles from me. I am actually very excited that David even ships to Estonia. I have only found 2 places where I can buy high quality tools who also ship to my neck of the woods. (actually, I didn't find them, BRK and someone else posted the sites for me.  ) Anyway, major win for me, i am very excited


----------



## jmartel

Estonia, huh? That's a country that you just don't really hear much about over here. Cool.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Glad we could help Jaike, even if we're tough on your pocketbook. Don't worry though, when you start selling some of your stuff you'll be loaded like the rest of us furniture makers. Double lawl.


----------



## jmartel

Can't be loaded when you blow all your money from commissions (and usually more in my case) on more tools.


----------



## Iguana

My wife and I had a good time over at Red's yesterday. Lunch was very tasty, too.

His home is filled with furniture he's made. It is a fairly impressive collection that should last generations. I resisted the temptation to get down on the floor and look under the chairs and tables. Very cool to see live the pieces he's posted here - the tea cup shelf was impressively done and larger that I had envisioned. And the curly maple was stunning.

Dan has the same habit I do - pointing out the flaws in one's own work. It is only natural - we're intimately familiar with the pieces we create and the flaws are there only because we put them there or left them there. It may be due to lack of skill or lack of patience, or just flat out making a mistake. But there is always something between us and perfection.

I am (slowly) coming to the realization that's OK. I've cruised enough high-end furniture stores and examined enough custom pieces to understand that perfection is a goal but not a destination. To the undiscerning eye, most things we would call flaws are unnoticeable. To the discerning eye, just evidence of a handcrafted piece well made. Any of Dan's pieces would hold its own against - and likely surpass - anything that has ever come out of any of the Stickley factories.

Dan's transformed his 2-car garage into a very functional shop that still has room for his wife to park should the weather be rough. It was easy to see that he spends a lot of time there cranking pieces out, and has a deft touch with his tools.

Thank you, Dan and Heather, for having us over


----------



## jmartel

> Dan has the same habit I do - pointing out the flaws in one s own work. It is only natural - we re intimately familiar with the pieces we create and the flaws are there only because we put them there or left them there. It may be due to lack of skill or lack of patience, or just flat out making a mistake. But there is always something between us and perfection.
> 
> - Mark Kornell


Just so long as you don't do it to the customer/recipient. As far as they know, you did everything perfectly and didn't make any on-the-fly design changes to account for a screw up. Such as how my end table frames are slightly more parallelograms rather than rectangles. My wife didn't notice it.


----------



## TheFridge

I built a hall tree with a center divider at the top. The first thing that tramp (my loving wifey) says is,"The right looks bigger than the left." Of course I tell her she's seeing things.

Long story short, she went to the bathroom and I grabbed a tape and son of a bitch. That woman was right. I put the center where the edge was supposed to be and she noticed a 3/4" difference in a 3" span.

Then I think I told her "well your butt looks fat.

Edit: ok I wish I had the testicular fortitude to do that


----------



## Hammerthumb

Classic Fridge! ^


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Lawl Fridge. Once while looking at old college pics, Heather commented that she forgot how much bigger my arms and chest(muscles) were back then. I joked that those muscles must have migrated to her booty over the years. Almost had to sleep on the couch that night…lawl.

Mark- Thanks for all the kind words. I had a feeling we'd get along, but after you guys left Heather and I were both wishing you guys lived closer. Oh well. technology as a way of making the world smaller.

I probably resigned to pointing out the things I'd like to improve on because I know you make furniture at a very high level and you'd have the same discerning eye. As I said, a walk through our home is like taking you along for my journey in this craft. I've got early pieces with big gaps filled with with wood puddy….and to highly figured pieces that are darn near flawless.

What a craft, what a life. It's even more fun when you can share it with others who love it too. That's probably how I wound up here.


----------



## Iguana

> Dan has the same habit I do - pointing out the flaws in one s own work. It is only natural - we re intimately familiar with the pieces we create and the flaws are there only because we put them there or left them there. It may be due to lack of skill or lack of patience, or just flat out making a mistake. But there is always something between us and perfection.
> 
> - Mark Kornell
> 
> Just so long as you don t do it to the customer/recipient. As far as they know, you did everything perfectly and didn t make any on-the-fly design changes to account for a screw up. Such as how my end table frames are slightly more parallelograms rather than rectangles. My wife didn t notice it.
> 
> - jmartel


According to my kids I'm slow on the uptake on most things. But I was real quick to learn that lesson


----------



## j1212t

> Glad we could help Jaike, even if we re tough on your pocketbook. Don t worry though, when you start selling some of your stuff you ll be loaded like the rest of us furniture makers. Double lawl.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


yeah, I have no doubt that I will become filthy rich like all of the furniture makers in this forum.  But commissions is the only reason I am dropping that kind of dough in tools to begin with it. Couldn't really slip it past the CPA (the wife) if it wasn't coming out of the commissions budget. 

i must say, i actually have no problems dropping money on hand tools, since I have a few handtools from my grandfathers grandfather,my great-grandfathers and my grandfathers handtools I know that good quality when taken care of properly is a lifetime investment. I just didn't realize 2 years ago when i took up the hobby that I would ever have the money to buy one of those tools, let alone multiples of high quality hand tools

For example the TS I bought 2 years ago cost 2 times less than the LV jack plane I have now. And at the time, the TS was a major purchase.


----------



## Buckethead

"The world could use more dovetails." ~ BRK circa 2015


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ And beads!

Thanks to Smitty and Lie Nielsen cutters, I now have a sweet stanley no 66. We're gonna be putting beads on everything for awhile;-)








-








-








-
This is one tool I actually prefer the vintage. It's got a lot of charm. Thanks Smitty.


----------



## johnstoneb

You need to get a #45.


----------



## PhillipRCW

Red, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who has a cute little helper in the shop. My 5 year old throws on my size 13 steel toes, safety glasses, a big t shirt, and my gloves and comes out to sweep or use the shop vac. That's her favorite job.


----------



## jmartel

Post # 5000. This thread has been going on for a while now.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Glad you (and your wonderful Shop Assistant) are diggin' the #66, Rojo!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ Ya my little helper calls it the "humper plane" LOL. It might be her favorite to use thus far. I ordered her one of those vintage "Handy Andy" tool sets for her upcoming birthday. She's gonna freak out. (thank you LJ Todd for the heads up)








-

Phillip- Kids are a hoot in the shop ehh? No doubt that was one of the factors in my decision to work in some hand tools- little safer and quieter. I'm not as productive when I've got a kiddo in shop, but they're only here for a short time;-)


----------



## CFrye

That is great, Red! AND it's not pink! Brace looks similar to one I have in my mini collection, except mine is not painted. She will be in hog heaven!


----------



## ToddJB

Dang Red, you got the big kit. I'm envious.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

$16 on ebay guys! Felt like I stole it. Now I just hope it gets here in good shape.

If I get a bigger shop in the future, I really would contemplate building our youngest a bench. I know she'd use it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> You need to get a #45.
> 
> - johnstoneb


I hear that a lot. I think a couple things have prevented me thus far:
1) don't like fussing with things that have a lot of parts or difficult setup
2) the ones in good shape with all the parts are more than I want to spend


----------



## summerfi

I have fond memories of my Handy Andy tool kit. It came in a metal box. The tools looked similar, but not as many. As I recall they had red paint instead of blue. If I can remember my tool kit 60 years later, your daughter will likely do the same.


----------



## ToddJB

$16? Dang that's less than I paid for at a flea market.


----------



## Mosquito

Red, #1 is not as big of an issue as you might think. It might be initially, but once you've done it a couple times, it's actually pretty easy. The last time I used my #55 for some moldings with one of the molding irons, I got the cutter set up in one shot, not too bad.

Can't help with #2 though. I wish nice #45's were cheaper too.

-

Handy Andy tool kits. I had one when I was younger, my grandpa gave it to me for Christmas or my Birthday, can't remember which. Not as big, though. I think it was some screw drivers, a chisel, a claw hammer, some pliers, and maybe something else.


----------



## CL810

1 - I agree with Mos. Intimidating tool that takes 15 - 30 minutes of use to get over.

2 - prices on eBay are low right now. Can't explain it but I've seen some steals on 45s and Bedrocks lately.

And I'm curious how much you think the LN combination plane is gonna set you back? ;-)



> I hear that a lot. I think a couple things have prevented me thus far:
> 1) don t like fussing with things that have a lot of parts or difficult setup
> 2) the ones in good shape with all the parts are more than I want to spend
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


----------



## JayT

Totally agree with Mos & CL810 about setup for a #45. It looks far more difficult and intimidating than it actually is.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I've never heard anything about an LN combination plane. There's one advantage to new vs vintage that doesn't get mentioned often: parts accessibility. Half the time to new makers won't even charge you for the part.

Actually, handworks was the first time I've fiddled with 45s in person. I might have looked into them closer, but the crowds and man stink were getting to me…hehehe.

Great Andy, the market dropped out on bedrocks just as I was thinking about selling a few;-)


----------



## CL810

Just wait till January. But pm me first!


----------



## summerfi

I've definitely noticed the seasonal price thing with saws. January and February are the best times to sell. People don't have much to do except sit at home and look at ebay. When the weather warms up people start doing other things and the prices drop. I've started holding my restored saws that I want to sell until winter. If it's something rare and desirable though. the collectors keep the price high all year.


----------



## Mosquito

And, I'm just going to throw this out there. The #45 was the 4th plane I ever bought ;-)


----------



## CL810

And the 9th, 14th, 15th, 18th, 22nd…......


----------



## theoldfart

^ he he, good one !


----------



## summerfi

Time for another update on the saw till. She's coming together. I need to put the back on and some crown moulding at the top and do the finishing and this phase will be done. Then I'll have to build some doors and drawers. This thing is starting to get heavy. Final capacity = 27 handsaws and 38 backsaws or other short saws.


----------



## RPhillips

Looking good Bob!


----------



## ToddJB

Crazy good job, Bob.


----------



## summerfi

Thanks guys. So I have a question for the group. Do you think this crown moulding is too wide for this piece? It is a new piece of pre-finished maple that I picked up from my local used building supply store a few years ago. It has a bit of figure in it. It would be nice to use it rather than make my own moulding. The side and door panels will also be figured maple. The body is elm and will be stained walnut. I think the contrast would look nice, but I'm on the fence as to whether the trim is too wide. What do you think?


----------



## ToddJB

Looks about 36" too wide to me, Bob. Too bad you don't have a saw laying around to trim 'er down.


----------



## summerfi

LOL Todd, I see you slept through that part of school where they taught you the difference between width and length.


----------



## ToddJB

And uh, is that metal lathe I spy back there? You been holding out on us?


----------



## summerfi

Yeah, that's my son's new metal lathe. I don't know the first thing about it, but he's promised to teach me how to make saw screws.


----------



## ToddJB

Awesome.


----------



## johnstoneb

Bob
I think once you get a back on and doors that crown will look good on there.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Love that crown!!


----------



## JayT

My first instinct was that the crown is a bit too wide, but I think it's just all the open space throwing me off. Once doors are on, it'll look great.


----------



## Pezking7p

Seeing that till packed with saws is sweet bob. Crown looks good.

You guys are making me want to cut some dovetails. I have a brand new DT saw that I haven't made the first cut with.

Beads…very cool but I don't know how to use them. I've only seen doucette and Wolfe use them and he always makes moldings and then trims/applies them. Is this pretty much how it's done?

Spent today making huge drawers and fancy qswo arches for the laundry/cat box cabinet. I'll get some pics tomorrow when the arches (names l'arc de chat) are on the drawers.


----------



## jmartel

I don't think it looks too wide, Bob.


----------



## summerfi

Thanks guys. Hearing no opinions to the contrary, I'll go with the crown.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yep, looks good from my house Bob. lawl.


----------



## Airframer

Got the tool cabinet doors ready to be hung and started trying out finishes for the case. This is "Red Mahogany" on poplar..



















Any tips on how to get it darker and a bit richer in the red department? More coats.. under coat with a different stain? It is close but I'd like to get it a bit less meh brown..


----------



## JayT

Maybe try a dye first and then stain.

If you don't want to mess with dye, probably need a different color for a first coat.


----------



## Sunstealer73

I'm getting close to finish time on the cherry coffee table. I chickened out on the curves for now.

This being my first cherry piece, I'm a little worried about finishing. My first thought was clear Danish oil followed by either poly or clear shellac then poly. I've read all the stories about blotchy cherry finishes. Anyone have a good foolproof clear cherry finish? I don't spray, so must be brush or wipe-on.


----------



## Pezking7p

I used seal a cell on mine with satin wipe on poly on top (watco). Turned out great with no blotching. Could be luck but I think light coats is much better chances than uses something that you allow to soak completely into the wood such as oil.


----------



## summerfi

Question: do most furniture makers typically seal the unseen parts of their work to minimize (or equalize) exposure to humidity? For example, underside of tables, back side of dressers, top of wall hung cabinets, bottom side of drawers, etc.


----------



## CL810

Yes, should have basically the same finish as the exposed parts so the wood "breathes" the same.


----------



## DanKrager

+1 what CL810 said.
DanK


----------



## j1212t

Made myself a new tool in my grandfathers shop over the weekend. Turned this:









Into this:









One more jig to make, and then I am off to the races cutting Dovetails, hopefully the stuff arrives soon-ish


----------



## j1212t

Here is that same chisel with 2 other tools I procured over the weekend.


----------



## vikingcape

Nearing completion.

Sorry i haven't been around much. Only get so much shop time with a 1 year old around. The no 7 is cutting nice this am.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^looking outstanding Kaleb.

Eric- all I know is that I've seen a lot of folks using gel stains on poplar. Not sure if you've worked with those. It does seem like you have more control over the color by how long you leave it on and how lightly you wipe it off.

Bob- I always at least seal the underside/hidden parts. Of course they don't get near as many coats as the show sides. I've read how some folks think this is an unnecessary myth, but better safe than sorry.


----------



## johnstoneb

I've seen them done both ways and I have done them both ways. I think it's better to at least seal the underside. That's just personal opinion. 
I took apart and refinished a secretary that had a 24" wide flat sawn walnut desktop. When I took the screw out that were holding it down it had no more curl than you would expect out of a flatsawn piece that wide. When I reassembled and finished it I just put in new screw and only finished the top side. The secretary was from my great grandmother came from Missouri over 100 yr ago. My daughter has it now and it is looking good. Over its life it has seen some pretty drastic moisture changes from Missouri to Southern Idaho to Coeur'd'Alene, ID. Just being finished on one side didn't seem to matter.


----------



## CFrye

Saw this video this morning. Really like it. Insights on the leg locking mech?

Oh, and serious bandsaw envy!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Candy, those videos of Asian woodworkers are always great. No idea on the leg lock.

Hosted another LJ (duckmilk) for lunch and a shop tour. More good times had by all. 









And this morning I was finally able to nail down a design for the dining set for my aunt and uncle. Ya know, that one they gave me a deposit for at Thanksgiving…lol. Let's just say my uncle is as picky as me.

So, it's on like donkey kong. I started designing the chair legs today. And, with a little inspiration from ya'll, I'm gonna keep track of my hours-a first for me! I seem to think I can make 6 chairs in the 40 hour range. We'll see if I'm fulla beans or not.


----------



## DanKrager

Candy, after enjoying watching the video (thank you for posting it) I focused on the leg joints. Gotta wish I'da thought of that!

The leg has a spring loaded lever embedded just below the hinge pin (when the table is upright). I'm guessing the spring is provided by a cleverly cut piece that has been undercut to allow the spring to be compressed. Think wooden dog with wooden spring finger. There is a pair of matching notches in the hinge block that the locking lever snaps into when it reaches the notch. The locking lever extends beyond the hinge block far enough to allow strong fingers to compress it out of the notch to raise or lower the leg. Exceptionally clever. Make sense?

DanK


----------



## CFrye

I'll have to watch it another dozen times and see if I can ferret it out. Compression springs…maybe mock up a mini version.
So far we've had one LJ visit our shop. Would love to have more. Maybe start a photo album/sign in book? Probably wouldn't be able to find it when needed, though! LOL
Looking forward to watching the build, Red!


----------



## byerbyer

Bob - Saw till looks great. I agree with JayT on the crown. Once you have the doors on I think it will fit right in.

Kaleb - That sure is a purdy lookin' slab…


----------



## CFrye

DanK, just now saw your response. I think I understand. Looks like the same mech locks the legs in the folded position as well?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I dropped some big buck on some 8/4 walnut today for the dining chairs. All my cheaper sources were out of the thick stuff.









I've got the pattern for the back legs made. Fun stuff.


----------



## DanKrager

That would be correct, Candy, if it indeed works like I think it works. Anyway, it makes sense to me.
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

After all that talk about using loose tenons, I think I'm gonna try this method for angled tenons. I blame Mark Kornell for putting ideas in my head.

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/woodworking-tips-1302feb/compoundtenons.html


----------



## j1212t

Nice going BRK, any 8/4 material give me a mild greenish hue! Look at what the cat dragged in for me









I also got all my Case pieces cut into size and stacked. 









Everything is getting ready for the dovetail cutting marathon, but since the Mr Barron guide isn't here yet, I'll take the time to do some butterflies on the tops and drawer fronts of the cabinet. Found some cracks after I cut and planed everything. Structurally they aren't needed, since the DTs will be good enough to hold everything. But I like the touch and I think some Sapele will look nice in fir.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Jake. You can always get everything cut, true and mark your baselines while you wait for the DT guide.

To say something on chair design- one issue I kept running into with the design of the chairs I'm making is convincing the clients, there's really not much difference between all the chairs they're showing me. All chairs work within what I call "comfort perimeters," like these:









Most all the differences are stylistic. Also, you have the "sketchup" dilemma. That is, you can paint a purdy picture, but that doesn't mean it's going to be comfortable.

I suppose you could say I'm designing these chairs myself. More like, I'm stealing design aspects from pictures of chairs the clients favor. Then I'm making those design aspects work within the functional limitations of chairs. The whole time heavily referencing Kevin Rodels chair desgin and Terry Moore' "Production Chairmaking" article both found in Fine Woodworking.


----------



## jmartel

Well most people that don't do woodworking don't know that most furniture is extremely similar. Just some style or dimensional changes. Take a sideboard for instance. It's a case on legs. Styling is what sets one apart from another. The height and depth are all in the same ranges, as well.

Chairs are the most similar probably because they are designed around basic human anatomy. But most furniture ends up pretty similar anyway.


----------



## j1212t

Isn't that what most of furniture making is like - taking scraps of info and design bits and putting them together in your own mind. We're probably all "stealing" from someone either consciously or unconsciously. I definetly have taken elements from Japanes styles, G&G, A&C, period and so forth. I haven't put them all in one piece, but different things I have made, all have had some elements of these in them.

that's what inspiration is in my mind. And the key is, like you said BRK - to stay within the realm of comfort perimeters and aesthetically pleasing design.

Anyhoo, I got down to doing the keys yesterday. Got about half way through, I might add another 5-6 keys in the remaining last 2 pieces. I found that the top which is about 42 inches from the ground, has the most butterflies, about 10 of the total 12 I am planning on putting in. So that is a nice suprise, will have them where they will show the most. 










Got to tell ya, the Veritas DT saw - i almost dropped on my knees and started sobbing, it cut so well.  First quality handsaw I have owned. Worth every penny, cut the sapele like butter, I don't think I will actually have to take the saw to the wood when I get down to cutting the DTs in pine… That's the cool thing I have noticed about buyign quality - no buyers remorse. I've had buyers remorse on a handsaw that cost 5$, no remorse on the Veritas which cost 10x that, cause it's easily worth it. Thank you all for enabling!


----------



## jmartel

I have always questioned my decision to buy the expensive tool, until it arrives and I get to use it. Once I use it I realize that I made the right decision.

Posted these in another thread, but I cut the joinery for 4 of 6 doors on the entertainment center last night.



















Unfortunately was running on about 2 hours of sleep and had just flown cross country, so I had a brain fart and didn't make 2 of the doors. Now I have to go and set everything up again to cut everything for 2 more skinny doors like in the last photo.

Needed to get some more work done on the cabinet since it has basically sat for 2 weeks.


----------



## CL810

Looking really nice Jtainment!


----------



## darinS

Candy,

You can get a good look at it at about the 8 minute mark and see him folding it down at about 8:12. Sounds like you and Dan might have it figured out though.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Got to tell ya, the Veritas DT saw - i almost dropped on my knees and started sobbing, it cut so well.  First quality handsaw I have owned. Worth every penny, cut the sapele like butter
> 
> - Jake


That gave me a good chuckle Jake. Good tools are expensive, but so is wasting your time and materials with crappy tools. Sometimes I think our problem is that there are sooo many crappy "tool-shaped objects" out there that its tough to spring for the good stuff. Our forefathers didn't have as many crappy Chinese substitutes to tempt them.

Anyway, did a bunch of pattern routing today. Until this morning, I though I had enough spiral bearing guided bits to get the job done, but I was wrong. I know from experience that the spiral bits cause way less tearout. I got it done with the bits I had, but the hassle inspired me to….spring for another nice tool!

Marc's vid will show my dilemma. 




Yup, I ordered one of those big monster pattern bits.

That'll come in handy on the curved backs. I did get all the back legs shaped today.




























Good times.


----------



## jmartel

Well I got the last 2 doors cut and dry fitted together tonight. Funny how forgetting to make those yesterday took my whole night tonight to correct. I could have had some doors gluing up tonight instead. Oh well.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Your knockin' out some nice work there Jeff. Can you imagine a furniture shop with the two of us working together? We'd put out enough furniture to make almost half of what we make at our day jobs! lol.


----------



## jmartel

> Your knockin out some nice work there Jeff. Can you imagine a furniture shop with the two of us working together? We d put out enough furniture to make almost half of what we make at our day jobs! lol.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Before taking out money for taxes and paying for materials, of course.

So far I'm fairly happy with how this is coming out. Time will tell how it looks completed, however.


----------



## CFrye

> Candy,
> 
> You can get a good look at it at about the 8 minute mark and see him folding it down at about 8:12. Sounds like you and Dan might have it figured out though.
> 
> - darinS


Thanks, Darin. I've been studying it, again and again! 
This video gives a good look at the plane used to texture the legs(at 5:29 and again at the 6 min. mark). Initially I thought that was just part of the smoothing and removing of saw marks. Love it that the texture was purposeful and left intact!

I am in awe of you guys(Red, Jeff, Jake…) that seemingly whip this stuff out! Thanks for all the sharing you do!


----------



## Nugs

Hey guys,

I've been lurking this thread since it's beginning and I must say you guys put out some quality work, and the speed you guys work at is crazy. I'm a big fan of building furniture, I've built a few boxes and other small things, but I keep getting pulled into building furniture. Here is the latest thing I've built, it's out of Chris Schwarz's book Campaign Furniture. It's a bookcase that folds into a travelling chest/bookcase.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Nugs, that's basically made of Awesome! I just finished reading Campaign Furniture recently. Now I'm jonesing to make a campaign piece. Looks like you nailed it. Where'd you get your brasses?


----------



## j1212t

Nugs! That is some serious quality work, very cool looking! I badly need one of those to keep my planes out of the dust.


----------



## Nugs

Thanks guys.

Red, I bought the hinges, corners and lock from Lee Valley. The drawer pulls I bought from eBay, they are a bit lower quality than the rest, but the price of very high quality recessed campaign pulls are quite shocking. Recessing all the corners went way quicker than I was expecting, and quite satisfying. There's a couple episodes of the Woodwrights shop on the PBS website with Chris Schwartz on Campaign furniture that are worth watching.

I want to build the campaign table sometime in the future. I think it would be awesome when guests or family come over for dinner and we need to use an additional table, we pull out a solid wood collapsible table instead of the cheapo one with the folding metal legs.

I'm going through a bit of a woodworking withdrawal right now, with the nice weather I have quite a few outdoor projects I need to focus on. Mainly landscaping and building a deck, but I'm sure I'll find some time here and there for a bit of wood.

Here's the nightstand I built this Winter.


----------



## jmartel

Candy, I don't know that I whip stuff out, but I do get a lot of shop time, which helps.


----------



## mochoa

Great work Nugs!, you didnt have to post that last picture man… I see you havent yet overcome the urge to point out the flaws in your work. . Sweet piece man.


----------



## mochoa

Here is an update on my commission job. I'm in the home stretch, pushing to finish, I've got other things I need to do!


----------



## jmartel

Looking good, Mauricio. Are those box joints or dovetails? Can't tell from the photo.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks, their box joints. Had to do so in the interest of time. This desk is taking me way to long.


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, I was expecting to be done with the entertainment center by now. Hopefully all 6 doors will be glued up tonight. I still need to cut the panels and sand everything first though.


----------



## darinS

> Thanks, Darin. I ve been studying it, again and again!
> This video gives a good look at the plane used to texture the legs(at 5:29 and again at the 6 min. mark). Initially I thought that was just part of the smoothing and removing of saw marks. Love it that the texture was purposeful and left intact!
> 
> - CFrye


Thanks Candy. I also like the idea that the texture was left purposefully. So…..when are you making yours???


----------



## ste6168

I am far behind many of you on the skill sets, but I am just getting into (or sort of back into) this hobby. This is the first piece of furniture I have built, and am still building. Not really any special joints, and I am certain it is not all done "correctly," but I am happy with the outcome thus far. Love looking through this thread for inspiration!


----------



## jmartel

> I am far behind many of you on the skill sets, but I am just getting into (or sort of back into) this hobby. This is the first piece of furniture I have built, and am still building. Not really any special joints, and I am certain it is not all done "correctly," but I am happy with the outcome thus far. Love looking through this thread for inspiration!
> - ste6168


If you are happy, that's all that matters. Forget anyone else who wants to rain on your parade. While I personally don't like pocket holes in furniture, that's how I started as well. I built a kitchen island out of pine from Lowes and a used bathroom vanity cabinet, and used a pocket hole jig. It's all just personal preference. And I still use it in shop stuff when I need something done quickly and I'm not trying out a new joint.

You're still making your own furniture, which is more than most people can say.


----------



## j1212t

> I am far behind many of you on the skill sets, but I am just getting into (or sort of back into) this hobby. This is the first piece of furniture I have built, and am still building. Not really any special joints, and I am certain it is not all done "correctly," but I am happy with the outcome thus far. Love looking through this thread for inspiration.
> 
> - ste6168


If it works it works and if it looks good (which it does) it is good. Pocket holes is what I started with as well. As long as you are building something and enjoying yourself that's all that matters.

Well done, looks very nice!


----------



## j1212t

By the way. All the DTs have been marked and are ready to be cut and fitted as soon as the Barron guide arrives. The butterflies were finished yesterday. A few days off from the dungeon. Should be making some real progress by the other half of next week.


----------



## jmartel

My David Barron dovetail guide came in the mail today. 8 days from England to Seattle. He included a personalized note and some candy, which was a nice touch.










Also got all the doors put together and they are gluing up tonight. Lots of sanding for the panels. Here's a dry fitup before the glue up commenced.










I'll fit the doors tomorrow but probably won't have much time to do anything other than that. Gotta pack up and head to the racetrack with the bike in the afternoon.


----------



## ToddJB

Never eat candy from strangers°

°unless they're British or in a questionable van.


----------



## jmartel

He's British, so it checks out.


----------



## vikingcape

First coat of finish on the coffee table. Always nice to see


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ I heart.

First blog on the dining set build.

http://www.westfallwoodcraft.com/2015/05/dining-set-tutorial-1-design-process.html


----------



## CFrye

Almost magical, isn't it, when the first finish coat goes on? Looks great, Kaleb.
"to keep it all professional-like" 
That made me laugh, Red! You have a relaxed, and fun, writing style.


----------



## Buckethead

Kaleb is crushing it. Fantastic slab. Gorgeous dovetails.

Jmart, that entertainment center is looking beautiful. Ready to see it installed. What are you waiting for? ;-)

Headed to check out your blog once I post this, Red.

But the real reason I'm posting here is to thank Candy for sharing those awesome videos. I love watching that guy work his magic, as well as the Asian aesthetic he produces. I haven't had much time for 'the shop' lately, so my fix is done by proxy.


----------



## terryR

Red, legs and blog look great!

Actually, all you guys are amazing builders and I cannot believe how quickly you can construct nice stuff! My skills are years behind the curve here, but hopefully it's a learnable skill. 

I'm somewhat embarrassed to post this little till, but it should make you guys feel better about YOUR work! LOL










Oak ply assembled with rabbets, and oak trim just scabbed on with glue and nails. Sorta ugly, but works great.

--------

So, can anyone recommend a good book on cabinets where I can learn how to design something correctly and build a nicer piece? I've learned a ton watching here, but am a book-learner, and enjoy having actual old-fashioned books to thumb through and read. Maybe a reference that would show the characteristics of Federal, Shaker, and different styles?

I'm in the process of adding a second interior wall to my shop, since I love the first and the french cleats on it. I'll have space for lots of wall-hung cabinets very soon…but would like to have nicer cabinets than the above.

Thanks!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Cabinet looks good from my house Terry;-) I'll have to think about the book recommendation

. 


> "to keep it all professional-like"
> That made me laugh, Red! You have a relaxed, and fun, writing style.
> 
> - CFrye


Thanks Candy. I've been working on my writing. My grammar and such isn't near where I'd like it to be, but I'll improve.


----------



## Buckethead

Red… Perimeter/parameter. Whatever it takes.


----------



## DanKrager

+1^....I wasn't gonna say nothin'...

DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Ha, good catch. I know the difference, but spellcheck doesn't. I'd prefer to outsource my editing along with my wood finishing


----------



## DanKrager

...old joke. Teacher at front door. "Johnny, where's your mother. I need to talk to her." "She ain't here!" "Why JOHNNY! Where's your grammar?" "She ain't here either". In spite of all our tools of convenience, our English grammar has taken a beating of late, everywhere.

Gonna get at least one picture of my new toy for the shop.

DanK


----------



## Mosquito

Spellcheck doesn't always catch grammar issues, especially when the word makes sense but just changes the context of the sentence. Computers can only be so smart lol. Whenever I write up a case review, or other article I always write it, proof read it, set it aside for a day, and proof read it again the next day. Seems to help to not be staring at it for a while before you proof read I think.

That said, outsourcing editing and finishing would be sweet, can editing extend to video editing too? lol


----------



## JayT

Starting on the next project, a sofa table. Building a prototype on this one to make sure everything will work right before making an avoidable mistake with the walnut and maple burl that will be used on the final product.

Tapering the legs by hand. The Hammerthumb jack worked great and made pretty quick work of the process.










Does make for a decent pile of shavings.


----------



## Pezking7p

Trying to keep up with this thread because, really, I'm here to make furniture.

Red im following your dining set with bated breath.

Love the coffee table slab. Nice dark wood.

Jay, are you building a complete prototype? Or just a dimensional mockup?

After spending ages working on my rental house and in the yard, I'm back in the shop. Not romantic like a slab coffee table but it is made of some wood. Been planning this all along as part of my kitchen remodel, so it's nice to be close to buttoning it up. The drawers are enormous, 31" wide by 35" deep. The bottom drawers holds two litter boxes. Of course I had to make the place where my cats crap classy so the arches are trimmed with qswo. First time I've used it and I must say its not great to work.



















There will be a white oak countertop on the whole thing from wall to wall. I have a question though. I bought wide boards for the counter to keep the grain patterns as similar as possible. I don't have a jointer big enough to join the boards. I don't particularly want to hand flatten, and I don't want to make a planer sled. Can I joint and rip the edges, glue together, and scrape/sand the joints even? im screwing the top down so I have some ability to pull it flat. I guess the only other alternative is to rip the boards in half, then joint and reglue them?

What would you guys do?


----------



## JayT

Looking good, Pez. I'd flatten the boards by hand, but I'm a glutton for punishment. I wouldn't rely on screws to pull flat.

I'm building a pretty complete prototype-a couple small details won't be implemented until the 'real' project. I saved the 4×4 redwood posts when I rebuild the front porch rail last year and resawed those for the base. Planning on a white oak top. Then we can either use the prototype outside somewhere or try to sell it.

I'll also feel a lot more confident about not screwing up some really nice wood that's been set aside for this project. The prototype base will be assembled, but not glued until after the final project is complete. so I can refer back to it for ideas.


----------



## Buckethead

A method I've resigned to on wide planks is to flatten as best I can by hand prior to thicknessing on the bench planer. Plane the opposite side then flip to do thicknessing. It works fairly well, or even perfectly when you've gotten your hand work done right.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Pez- are the board even that bad? (big twist or crook) If they're decent, just run the through the planer. Little skip plane action, if you will. Like you say, your gonna screw them to the cabinet anyway.

I think I mentioned before, I went the first few years without a jointer. I just tried to pick fairly straight boards. Then I saved the straight ones for doors and places where it mattered. I used the not-so-straight boards for things like face frames where they were gonna be straightened out in their install.

Mos- that's one of the things I like about blogger; I can write some and it saves a draft, then I can proof it later. Trouble is even after the and I both proof it I still find errors later…lol. I do enjoy bloggin/sharing/teaching….but I do sometimes grumble about the time it takes.

And, I wish I would have paid more attention in my college writing classes. Ya know, instead of butting heads with the Prof.


----------



## TheFridge

First mortise and tenon by hand. It pops too.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ Nice and clean for hand work there buddy.

Today marks thirteen years since Heather and I agreed to Dancing in the Minefields. Think I'll take her out for some sushi…..after spending the morning in the shop;-)


----------



## JayT

Congrats on the anniversary, Red.

(Love that song, BTW)


----------



## byerbyer

Happy Anniversary, BRK.


----------



## jmartel

Happy anniversary, Red. I'm a big fan of sushi.

I don't have a jointer either right now, but hoping to get one soon. Very little space for one though.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys. Cranking out more parts and parts. Better start on the next blog before I forget what I did.


----------



## Pezking7p

Thanks for the answer I didn't expect to get guys. I lined the boards up and they are basically dead flat to each other so I'm going to carefully plane and join them up.

Hand cut mortise and tenons have a real sexiness. And not terribly time consuming.

Red, happy anniversary. Something about a bench full of batched out parts really gets my motor going. Vroom vroom.


----------



## CFrye

Happy anniversary, Red and Heather!


----------



## Iguana

Happy Anniversary, Dan & Heather.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks for the anniversary wishes guys. I still had to work in the evening, but we had a very nice lunch date. Marrying that little gal was the best decision I ever did make.



> Red, happy anniversary. Something about a bench full of batched out parts really gets my motor going. Vroom vroom.
> 
> - Pezking7p


That's how you know your a furniture maker;-) I've still got more parts to make, not to mention the seats. Think I'm still under 20 hours though.


----------



## vikingcape

Well Red let me add my belated congrats too. Hope all is well with you and yours.

Tenon looks good Fridge

That is one cool cat box pez!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Meanwhile, poor Jake is still waiting for his Barron guide to arrive via Estonian bareback donkey. lol

Me thinks I'm gonna have pick up some more 5/4 walnut for the solid chair sets. I suppose I should measure and plan better, but what's the fun in that?


----------



## jmartel

If you're not messing up, you're not working fast enough.


----------



## j1212t

> Meanwhile, poor Jake is still waiting for his Barron guide to arrive via Estonian bareback donkey. lol
> - BigRedKnothead


So funny because it's true… Just sent David an email. I am not starting unless I have it here. Waited to long for it..


----------



## Hammerthumb

> ^ Nice and clean for hand work there buddy.
> 
> Today marks thirteen years since Heather and I agreed to Dancing in the Minefields. Think I ll take her out for some sushi…..after spending the morning in the shop;-)
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Happy anniversary Red.

I've been real busy lately so I have not had time to post much. I see that things are running smoothly around here.

Nice production line there Red.

Like the pile of shavings JayT.

Pez is still messing with the cat kindom restroom.

Fridge is making it pop.

Terry is still bashful about his talent.

Maur is still doing the desk thing.

Jmart is nearing the finish line.

Sorry if I missed anyone.

Carry on.


----------



## CL810

.


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## BigRedKnothead

Bummer Jake, I got my Barron guide in like 8 days. Thing works like a champ tool.

I sure appreciate Rogowski's approach and philosophy for the craft. Here you go ste6168:

"One of the lessons that every woodworking teacher must learn is humility. Being more knowledgeable than a new student doesn't mean that you're smarter [that's certain] or more skilled. It means simply that you've put in more time…."

https://northwestwoodworking.wordpress.com/2015/06/02/humility-and-ignorance/


----------



## jmartel

Doors are fitted. I believe all that's left is hanging doors, trim, and finishing.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ng's Big Daddy router bit:
Is it big a little intimidating to use at first? Yes
Does it work very well? Yes
Am I glad I bought it? Yes. 









Curved back rails, check. The parts are piling up. This is some of the most gorgeous black walnut I've worked with. I think I'm doing it justice thus far.


----------



## ToddJB

What's the max height you can cut with it? Looks like you're doing a top and bottom pass.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya buddy, it's 2 inches tall. My chair back crest rails are over 3 inches. This bit would have been all I needed for the back legs and most all other parts.


----------



## CFrye

Wowsa, Red! Did you have to take a notch out of your fence for that puppy?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Hehe. Nah, it fit under my fence just fine. Normally I don't even care about burying a pattern bit under the fence, but I tried with that hunk of cobalt…lol.

The interesting thing about the spiral router bits is that the shearing action makes so they don't "bite" or chatter like the straight-edged carbide bits. I've read stories from Scwharz and others who claim they've had a board catch on a router bit and shoot out of their hands. I'm not saying that it's impossible with a spiral bit, but less likely.


----------



## Buckethead

Red, those backs look fantastic. Way to showcase that grain.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, those backs look fantastic. Way to showcase that grain.
> 
> - Buckethead


I could take credit, but that's really one of the benefits of cutting these out of 8/4 stock I've found (as opposed to glue laminating etc.) On plainsawn stuff, you tend to get that effect.


----------



## CFrye

"they've had a board catch on a router bit and shoot out of their hands."
BTDT! 
Has taken me almost 2 years to get brave enough to use the table mounted router again…once. Just glad the router was *not* hungry for finger food at the time.


----------



## byerbyer

^BRK/Candy- I've never personally experienced a catch like that on a router table, but I've been in the shop when it's happened to someone else. It'll get your blood pumping! Taking multiple light passes is helpful to avoid them…

Anyone purchased Lie Nielsen tools via their Amazon marketplace? I just pulled the trigger on LN router plane I've been coveting for many moons.


----------



## summerfi

Alright boys, the new saw till is hung. Next step is to build doors and drawers.


----------



## theoldfart

Looks pretty good there young feller! I sure hope you have enough sharp objects to fill it.

Nice bit of work Bob, looking forward to the finished product .


----------



## TheFridge

I dont know what is or will be prettier. The till? Or the saws goin in there?


----------



## vikingcape

Wow Bob! That is some amazing work!


----------



## ToddJB

Bob you've reached baller status. That's great. I really like the design.


----------



## ShaneA

That looks awesome Bob.


----------



## johnstoneb

That crown molding really adds some class to that. No ordinary saw till.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

My jaw literally dropped Bob.


----------



## john2005

Bob, that is one handsome piece! Great contrast and I really like your layout. I caught the part where you said you were using elm for the frame, but what did you use there on the back? That pretty good lookin.


----------



## Sprung

Wow, Bob… Very nice!


----------



## byerbyer

Beautiful work, Bob!


----------



## JayT

Dang, Bob, that is a gorgeous piece of craftsmanship!


----------



## summerfi

Thanks guys. John, the back and sides are quilted maple veneer on 1/4" ply. The doors and drawer fronts will be matching.


----------



## dbray45

Bob - you posted in the right place - nice pieces of furniture! Funny thing, I just converted one of my cabinets to a saw till and was going to post it. You make mine kind of rudimentary and plain.

Nice work.

Byer - have not used the site, bought direct from LN and once at a tool event. If this is your first experience with LN, their tools are seriously nice. My only issue is that they can get back-logged and it can take a couple months to get the tool.


----------



## terryR

Very impressive, Bob!
A fitting home for beautiful vintage saws!

I'll see you tomorrow morning at 6:00 for my lessons.


----------



## jmartel

Looks killer, Bob. Nice job. Now let's see it filled.


----------



## ToddJB

Bob, can you share with us your decision process to designing the till with doors? Or is it as simple you just like the look better?


----------



## summerfi

It wasn't a decision I agonized over Todd. I just thought it would look more complete with doors, plus I thought doors would keep some of the shop dust off the saws.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Finally, some hand tool work on the dining chairs.










I was thoroughly enjoying myself when the mailman delivered my copy of the Studley Virtuoso book. So, I found a chair on my deck and proceeded to have my mind blown.

Other news for those who haven't read my rambles elsewhere: yesterday I got word that I received a promotion into management with Union Pacific. I'm excited about the new challenge. My family is excited about me having regular hours. The catch is, we will have to relocate to northern Iowa. So, it sounds like we've got one crazy, exciting, and slightly stressful summer ahead of us.

Who know what this means for my furniture making. I do most of my woodwork while I'm on call and the kids are in school right now. If my kiddos are always home when I am, I may not get out in the shop as much. I'm ok with that, I really am. My kiddos will only be around for a short time, then I've got the rest of my days to pursue my woodworking dreams. That said, ya'll know me, I'm a worker bee. Even if I have a 9to5 job, I'm not gonna come home and sit on my duff. I will always be working with my hands.

Truth be told, I'm not totally ecstatic about setting up my shop again. However, if we land a house with a bigger shop….I could get excited. Also, we don't have room for much more furniture in our current house. Maybe a bigger house means we'll NEED more furniture…lol.

Ok, enough of that. We'll be moving later this summer. I'm sure my working pace on this dining set will slow down, but I'll keep plugging away.


----------



## j1212t

That is a fine looking saw till Bob!!

The donkey finally arrived with my DT guide. It is pretty damn amazing. Did a test through dovetail today - when cutting pins, if you split the line then no paring of tails or pins is needed. I could get that with my shop made guide, but the accuarcy wasn't there. Now I did it first time around.

Will try half-blinds next time I get around to it. Which is inccidently the irony of it all. Now that I have all the tools I need - it is summer and I hardly have time to go to the shop anymore. Anyhow, things are looking good, and you guys are keeping up the standard as usual!


----------



## byerbyer

Great news, Jake.

Congrats BRK. I don't envy moving as I'm in the middle of moving my better half into my (our) house. My garage is 1/4 yard sale stuff, so I'm counting the days until that junk is someone else's and I can spread out a bit.


----------



## DanKrager

Congratulations, BRK! Well played.

I'd be delighted to help you move by lightening your load. In fact I'd even make the trip to save shipping. All those planes and stuff are HEAVY, so…well, have big truck will travel… LOL. Seriously, I hope with all my heart that you get a killer shop space.

Oh. And Bob, remember when you asked if those moldings were too big? I didn't comment then. Shall I comment now? (I don't know why I'm feeling so ornery!) I was impressed, too, with the till picture and it's layout! It has come together into AWESOME and cant wait for the doors. Will they be glass doors? And no, the molding isn't too big!

DanK


----------



## summerfi

Hmmm…glass doors. That has possibilities. Keep out the dust and make the saws visible at the same time. Actually I considered that before, but I was concerned that sooner or later some flying object in the shop would break the glass. Maybe I'm too concerned about that. I'll give it some more thought. Thanks Dan.


----------



## johnstoneb

You could always put in plexiglas. I think glass of some type would really look nice. You need those saws on display.


----------



## DanKrager

I was surprised at how cheap hardened glass is. Just measure carefully. Hammers bounce off that stuff, most of the time. Plexiglass is a dust magnet unless you treat it somehow. Glass companies are required to ask if it is for a door and if so, double strength isn't good enough…has to be tempered. Now usually they mean passage doors, so you can honestly say no.

Edit: Oooo, oooo, I know. Clear glass leaded panels, craftsman style. Soldered copper foil has same look, maybe stronger. Then tempered isn't really needed.

DanK


----------



## jmartel

I'd vote for a glass door. The plexiglass/lexan/acrylic ones will scratch easily.


----------



## johnstoneb

x1 Dan K leaded glass


----------



## summerfi

Dang it Dan, stop giving me ideas. You're giving me more work to do. LOL
I do like the idea of leaded glass doors, and I've done that before. Here's a china cabinet I made years ago. I used lead came for the clear glass and copper foil for the roses. I may have to give this some serious thought.


----------



## johnstoneb

Looks good. Instead of roses you could put a couple of saws in the corners.


----------



## Sprung

Bob, I'll put in another vote for leaded glass doors. I'm in the middle of setting my shop back up and I'm finding that a little design aesthetic in a few key places in the shop really helps the atmosphere and makes it an even better place to be. We all enjoy being in our shops and spend as much time in them as possible, so why not make it look nice, if we can?

Red, congrats on the promotion! Whereabouts in northern Iowa will you be moving to? Also, solid work on those chairs. A dining table with chairs is on my woodworking bucket list.


----------



## vikingcape

All done!


----------



## CFrye

Bob, the till is wonderful! The leaded glass is just perfect for that crown moulding. 
Congratulations on the promotion, Red! I'd be sad to leave that shop behind, but I know you will build an even better one. More time with the family is more important, glad you've learned that at a young age. 
Jake, glad the donkey finally delivered!
Kaleb, beautiful, table!
A question on bow ties…on a thick slab like Kaleb's table (except where it's stability is not established)is it needed to put a tie on the bottom?


----------



## DanKrager

That's a really good question, Candy. I cannot claim to know the answer, and I'm anxious to hear about others experience. The physics of the situation would lead me to believe that a tie on the top of a moving board would trigger a warp. I have an exterior bench (outside…!) with two bow ties in the top of a 4" thick half round log seat and rain or shine I can't detect any warping. It does stop the split from working, so maybe the open split on the bottom is working in my favor to take up the slack. Not researched with micrometers.
DanK


----------



## WhoMe

Red, congratulations on the promotion, I'm sure it is well deserved and a good choice by UP.
I bet you'll miss the open "tracks" just a tiny bit. 
At least you don't have to relocate to some place like Los Angeles. You'd never get a place with shop space without spending the GDP of Iowa….


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I hear ya Mike. Staying at the same or lower cost of living was important. I'm not a big city guy anyway.

Spokeshaves….don't build chairs without 'em.


----------



## jmartel

I still need to learn how to use my spokeshave. And probably get a flat bottomed one.


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, I thought you had a radius plane…???
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Ha! Busted. I tried to use it first, but I just couldn't get it to work as well as my spokies. Probably user error. Oh well, I got a lot better with my curved bottom spokeshave today. Certainly trickier to use that the flat bottom.


----------



## JayT

Got some more work done on the base for my prototype sofa table today

Mortises chopped - CHECK
Apron tenons cut and fit - CHECK
Quarter circles cut - CHECK
Legs tapered - CHECK










Still need to cut and fit the tenons on the arched pieces

Oh and …...

Enough shavings to supply a Petco - CHECK


----------



## b2rtch

"My jaw literally dropped Bob" 
Really ,sorry for you BigRed


----------



## theoldfart

^ LAWLZ and then some!

Jay, serious shaving production going on there. You gonna sign 'em all? :-0


----------



## Pezking7p

Bob…that till! So beautiful and I love the matching tool box. Can someone fill me in on what the leaded glass is and how it's different, and how copper foil is used to make the roses?

BRK I just used my curved spokeshave for the first time and I must say, I suck with it. I sharpened it up real nice so I hope it's better now that it's been sharpened.

Got the top glued up for the catbox and washer dryer. Everything is just alright as far as flatness but one end didn't close up when I clamped it. Didn't see this issue during dry fit and I think it may be related to the large crack in that area. What do you do with a 1/32" gap on a glue seam that's about 12" long??? Maybe I'll put a bow tie in it and pretend like it's a crack. I've already got three other bow ties. Other ideas?


----------



## Pezking7p

Question for y'all. How do you make your bow ties without using a band saw or scroll saw? I had a heck of a time with this today. I think I might try it with a hand saw tomorrow? Maybe?


----------



## DanKrager

Making one bow at a time is different than making many alike. For onesies and twosies, (up to foursies) I would select stock as thick and wide as you want the bow. Then I would mark a line parallel to both long edges indicating how narrow the waist is to be. Mark off the length of the bows and cut off the few you need. I use a miter box with length stop. You could stack two or three and clamp together somehow. I use hot glue. Find the waist center and with a dovetail saw cut to the line (waist width) from each edge. Use a chisel remove the waste to make the butterfly wing tapers, cutting "downhill" towards the waist. If you are doing this one at a time, then you can cut a very slight taper all around to enhance the fit. Consistency is key.

For many bows all the same size, I find stock as thick as I want the bow wide and crosscut blocks to the length of the bows. Using a tilted table saw blade, I crosscut the wing shape in four passes on the block. One could also use a low angle rabbet plane, a fence being helpful. Then I simply slice the bows off the block like slicing bread, a rip cut.

I've been known to raid the waste basket of my scroll saw for thin stock and just scroll saw it. This works for up to four or five 1/4" bows stacked with hot glue in the waste. If you are going to the trouble to make a template for routing the recess, then it's fun to go wild with the scroll saw and create unusual shapes that mimic the function of the "standard" butterfly. 
DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Leaded glass is simply an assembly of glass pieces fitted together and held by an "H" shaped strip of lead that is fitted between the pieces and carefully fitted at the ends for a clean solder joint. Glass pieces are cut to the desired shape, then assembled with the lead strips to make a panel of just about any desired size. A "U" shaped channel is generally used around the outside of the panel for a finished appearance. Different styles of glass create different effects. If you've ever been to church, then you've likely seen leaded glass windows. The craftsman style sometimes uses leaded clear glass panels of rectangular pieces in the doors to make a classy touch.

Copper foil panels are made by very carefully applying SA copper foil strip of the appropriate width centered to the edge of the glass and carefully wrapping the foil over both faces of the glass, making a copper "U" channel all around each piece of glass. Then the pieces are put together according to the pattern and soldered on both sides of the panel. Makes a surprisingly strong panel, but it takes a bit of skill and practice to make it look nice.

DanK


----------



## Pezking7p

Thanks Dan. Today I came up with option #2 but I didn't like how they all looked the same and I had to clean them all up with a chisel anyway.

I was thinking of ripping a piece as wide as the wide part of the bow tie, then marking the hourglass shape and cutting the waist with a saw but the chisel is probably a cleaner edge?


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, I'm assuming you are just touching up the template router stuff using the spokeshaves?

When I build chairs, I want the legs to match perfectly. OK, it's CDO (in alphabetical order like it should be!) because at 18" or so apart who can tell? So, if it is only one or two chairs, I clamp them together in pairs to work the curves by hand, which helps with stability and assures accuracy in the cutting. Compound curves require the use of cauls, and the cutoffs are useful here. This is where a very close and accurate band saw cut is useful so the cauls almost fit perfectly. One loses a lot to the template process, almost too much to make this work. But if I'm using a template, I try to make sure the cut left behind doesn't require more than a scrape or two to clean it up. I still clamp them together!

It's fun to see your work coming together. Thank you for sharing.
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> BRK I just used my curved spokeshave for the first time and I must say, I suck with it. I sharpened it up real nice so I hope it s better now that it s been sharpened.
> 
> - Pezking7p


You really gotta press with your thumbs and sorta "rock" on the curved part. I've gotten to where I can control the depth of cut with the rocking motion. It's still a lot more likely to chatter than the flat bottom. I only use the curved bottom for curves the flat bottom won't reach.



> BRK, I m assuming you are just touching up the template router stuff using the spokeshaves?
> 
> When I build chairs, I want the legs to match perfectly. OK, it s CDO (in alphabetical order like it should be!) because at 18" or so apart who can tell?
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Ya Dan, I must be good at keeping my OCD in check. Things like exact matching chair legs don't bother me. I know they're dang close because the all came from the same pattern. Of course they're not the same if you took a caliper to them because some had little chipouts or spots where I bumped the router bit. Those little imperfections are cleaned up nicely with a plane or spokeshave. This might make one leg 1/32"....shoot maybe 1/16" bigger than another at a particular spot. Oh well. it's supposed to be hand crafted, not CNC.

You know what I'm gettin at that's why we appreciate each other. There are other things I go overboard on for sure.


----------



## davewilson

hobby1, nice work! Speaking about the design I'd like to note, that your furniture is very diversed. Where do you get inspiration for your works?


----------



## TheFridge

Is crown BLO from the box store worth using? It would be on my workbench and I don't want to eff it up. Thanks!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Back from a few days out of town.




























Patrice LeJeune at the American School of French Marquetry in San Diego. (Edit)


----------



## Pezking7p

Mr The Fridge, in my limited experience with crown BLO it has worked fine. I've only put it on a few small things but it dries up nice.

I got the counter for the catbox mostly level today. Just about an hour with a block plane and a scraper. I also filled the knots with epoxy, finished my bow ties (thanks Dan k for the help on making new ones), and made templates and cut the top to fit.

I guess I got the fit just a little too tight. Had to get a shovel to pry it back up.


----------



## Pezking7p

Paul that top is out of control awesome. Did you make it or just visiting his shop? Also, did that yellow mallet survive or did the split…split?


----------



## TheFridge

Awesome. Thanks bud.


----------



## Hammerthumb

That work is not mine, sorry to say. I was just visiting. Thinking of taking a class in a few months.

Mallet is fine Pez. Used it while making my nephews bench as it is the heaviest in the arsenal. Thanks again.

Fridge - cut the BLO with mineral spirits. Goes on easier and dries faster.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Some nice Art the Paul. The dude looks definitively French;-)

Next bloggy on the chairs. Only interesting to furniture makers;-)

http://www.westfallwoodcraft.com/2015/06/dining-set-tutorial-2-rails-and-angled.html


----------



## jmartel

I've thought about taking a class there as well, Paul, but it's pricey. Airfare, hotel, plus the cost of the class.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I know what you mean about pricy, but I have a place to stay, and the drive isn't too bad. My wife was impressed enough to approve.

Just need to find the time now.

Been watching everyone's work lately, but have not had much time to post. I think a new dining room set is in the future Red, so I have been watching with great interest. Gonna have to get one of those pattern bits soon.

Carry on.


----------



## j1212t

> Question for y all. How do you make your bow ties without using a band saw or scroll saw? I had a heck of a time with this today. I think I might try it with a hand saw tomorrow? Maybe?
> 
> - Pezking7p


I use my dovetail saw. Just select the stock and mark and cut each key separately.still very quick and each key has a bit of its own feel and look.


----------



## jmartel

> Question for y all. How do you make your bow ties without using a band saw or scroll saw? I had a heck of a time with this today. I think I might try it with a hand saw tomorrow? Maybe?
> 
> - Pezking7p


Didn't see this earlier, but I also used my dovetail saw. The only project I've had butterflies on was the blanket chest, though. And those are a much more stylized version of butterflies than the standard bowties.


----------



## j1212t

Half of the 14 linear feet of the dovetails have been cut. Meaning that all the tails are done. Tomorrow I'll start on the pins and halfpins.

The barron guide is a joy to use. Would be easier with a deeper saw plate than the Veritas I have, but works as well all the same. At some point I'll put up some pics but posting on my phone now and the old smartphone doesn't have enough computing power to handle it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> The barron guide is a joy to use. Would be easier with a deeper saw plate than the Veritas I have, but works as well all the same.
> 
> - Jake


Ya, a 2" sawplate is ideal. I wish my tapered LN DT saw was longer in the plate. But, I've just gotten used to sawing down about a 1/2"- the kerf is well established by then anyway. Then I move the guide aside to watch for the baseline/knifeline.


----------



## Mean_Dean

I've been keeping up with your blog, Big Red One, and it's coming along really well!

I'm curious about your thoughts on angled tenons vs. angled mortises. I read an article in one of the big W/W magazines awhile back, that said to use angled mortises instead of angled tenons. The reasoning was that angled tenons are weaker than straight tenons; and that on a chair especially, they were a no-no.

Since you haven't mentioned having a chair collapse from under you, and I'm assuming you've used angled tenons, I'm interested in your opinion!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dean- You bring up a good point. I think I've read the little Q&A on FWW.com that your talking about. I was surprised when I read it at the time because I just don't believe that answer is that definitive. (Not to mention, I'm pretty sure that have videos on how to cut angled tenons).

I'm no master at this craft, so always take me with a grain of salt….but I don't don't think there's much difference in strength between angled tenons or angled mortises. There's some validity to saying, "well the tenon is angled, so the grain doesn't run straight through the tenon." But shoot, that's assuming it's a perfectly straight-grained board to begin with. Plus, no longer than those tenons are (1-1/4), at a 5 degree angle, they're only kicked over about 1/16". Now, if it was a severe angle, that would be a problem.

That's my best justification;-)


----------



## Pezking7p

I find in many areas of work, especially crafts and hobby crafts are the worst, there is a tendency to consider the finest of details of design while completely ignoring the obvious ones. This joint is 5% stronger than that joint. That table saw is more accurate because it weighs 400 lbs instead of 300 lbs. you need to sharpen your tools down to 20,000 grit and then strop with virgins blood if you even want to make the crudest of shavings.

Sometimes I think people come up with these things just to have something to preach about or to write about.

Long way to say, I'm sure the angled tenons are fine. I take any advice from literally anybody with a grain of salt. If Isaac Neuton came back to life and told me f=ma I would stop for a second and think about it. I'm just a skeptic I guess.

You guys I am so seriously stoked to be finished with cabinets and on to making furniture. Question: how do you make a lid on a chest that is deep like a tack trunk? e.g. I want to make a classy tack trunk. Raised panel?


----------



## Mean_Dean

Pez, your point is well taken. The angle of the angled tenon in chair construction is probably too small to make a significant structural strength difference.

Then again, it is a chair! It's subject to far greater stresses than its accompanying dining table, and if it fails, can have catastrophic consequences. Consider Grandma is over for Thanksgiving dinner, and her chair collapses out from under her. Even our dear friend Candy probably couldn't put Grandma back together again.

However, Big Red One is a pretty big guy, and hasn't collapsed one of his chairs yet. So if the angled tenon can handle him, it can probably handle Grandma.

It's just that I tend to overbuild things, and if I can gain an extra bit of strength, especially in a chair, I think it's worth doing.


----------



## Pezking7p

Dean, I hope my comments weren't taken as a slight to you. I wonder what is the method of failure for most chairs? Is it catastrophic? Does the glue fail and the chair "wiggle" prior to catastrophic failure?

Usually the best bet to make a joint stronger is to use more glue, then make it bigger. Possibly also a tighter or better fitting joint may be much stronger, as in the case of a tenon shoulder that doesn't seat well. Hmmmm I wonder…


----------



## Mean_Dean

Dan, I guess I'm envisioning the tenon snapping due to the angle creating a weak point where the tenon extends from the stretcher.

So, a tenon snaps, transferring the load to the other also weaker tenons, causing collapse of the chair, spilling the occupant into a heap on the floor.

Now I fully admit that we're probably picking nits-but I keep coming back to that article about angled tenons vs. angled mortises, and how angled tenons were a no-no on chairs.

If I ever find that article again, I'll post a link. In the meantime, I'm going to accept that angled tenons are OK out here in the real world, and when I build a chair with them, hope the thing won't kill me!


----------



## DanKrager

I don't know if it means anything, but in the Hill Manufacturing dining room set factory where I supervised a night shift years ago, angled tenons were used extensively. The grain was quite straight, and the angle was very small, not remembering the actual degrees. There was no place in the tenon where grain exited both sides such that a split would break off the tenon. Less than 1/4 of the tenon width had short grain. For production chairs, these were pretty well made. Didn't seem to be a problem. Don't know about durability of these particular chairs but we did about 50 of them in a 6 hour shift, lumber to dried finish with upholstery. 
YMMV.
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> If I ever find that article again, I ll post a link. In the meantime, I m going to accept that angled tenons are OK out here in the real world, and when I build a chair with them, hope the thing won t kill me!
> 
> - Mean_Dean


Dean, I saw that in FWW awhile back too. I probably couldnt' post it if I found it because it'd be part of their member section. But, like I say, the craftsman who contribute to the publication contradict each other. You can find several fellas making chairs with angled tenons in the Mag over the years:










Your right, you do want to make a chair as strong as possible, but I think it has more to do with how well the joint is made and fits, as opposed to which part is angled.


----------



## DanKrager

duplicate post deleted.


----------



## daddywoofdawg

> Good stuff Jake. You can always get everything cut, true and mark your baselines while you wait for the DT guide.
> 
> To say something on chair design- one issue I kept running into with the design of the chairs I m making is convincing the clients, there s really not much difference between all the chairs they re showing me. All chairs work within what I call "comfort perimeters," like these:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most all the differences are stylistic. Also, you have the "sketchup" dilemma. That is, you can paint a purdy picture, but that doesn t mean it s going to be comfortable.
> 
> I suppose you could say I m designing these chairs myself. More like, I m stealing design aspects from pictures of chairs the clients favor. Then I m making those design aspects work within the functional limitations of chairs. The whole time heavily referencing Kevin Rodels chair desgin and Terry Moore "Production Chairmaking" article both found in Fine Woodworking.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Question on the photo,the numbers on the left in the photo,14-18" is that referring to back height or width? or…
What book is that from,looks like I might need to read that,as I'm starting to build more chairs lately.
A question for everyone,Is there a "chair design jig" something that you can raise, lower leg heights,seat angles,back angles,etc?any links to photos or plans/drawings.Seems like it could be handy in chair design.Like has been said looks nice but how does it sit,you really don't know till you can mock up those angles.


----------



## jmartel

That's the back width, Daddy. Most chairs are not as wide in the back as they are up front.

As far as changing those things, maybe make some out of cheap/scrap ply? Use screws so you can change things easily.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> That s the back width, Daddy. Most chairs are not as wide in the back as they are up front.
> 
> - jmartel


Is that for aesthetic reasons? structural to help prevent racking? other reason?


----------



## jmartel

Going to make a push for getting everything except sanding and finishing done this week. Goal is to start finishing next week. Sanding will probably take me a few days.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

daddywolfdawg- the measurements your pointing out are fore the span of the front and back legs, or really…the seat. Somewhere I have seen a big chair jig where someone made everything adjustable. I don't think I'd ever go to that trouble. My biggest reference is….existing chairs. Measure and observe your chairs and others. I have taken a tape measure and a bevel gauge to a furniture store. Don't know if they cared or not;-)



> That s the back width, Daddy. Most chairs are not as wide in the back as they are up front.
> 
> - jmartel
> 
> Is that for aesthetic reasons? structural to help prevent racking? other reason?
> 
> - TopamaxSurvivor


Topa- I blabbed about that in the design part of my last blog post:
http://www.westfallwoodcraft.com/2015/06/dining-set-tutorial-2-rails-and-angled.html


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Thanks, I'll check it out ;-)


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Would it not be stronger to have an angled mortise fitting a straight tenon? Lot more headache setting up for sure ;-) Seems to me the weak point is the angled grain of the tenon.


----------



## theoldfart

^spammer


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Would it not be stronger to have an angled mortise fitting a straight tenon? Lot more headache setting up for sure ;-) Seems to me the weak point is the angled grain of the tenon.
> 
> - TopamaxSurvivor


Ya Topa, we debated that a bit a few posts ago. To which I said: 
"There's some validity to saying, "well the tenon is angled, so the grain doesn't run straight through the tenon." But shoot, that's assuming it's a perfectly straight-grained board(and tenon) to begin with. Plus, no longer than those tenons are (1-1/4), at a 5 degree angle, they're only kicked over about 1/16". Now, if it was a severe angle, that would be a problem."


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Lots a good points in those few words Red ;-)


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## summerfi

Tails anyone?


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## Pezking7p

Grain filling. On my oak countertop I decided to fill the pores/grain using the technique where you apply a good amount of danish oil and then sand, allowing the slurry to fill the pores and dry. The result is nice, a very silky surface. All I need to do now is lightly sand and apply poly. One thing though, I decided to use my ROS with 120 grit. This made a huge mess, but worked fast. Be warned I guess, if you try this with an ROS, it will fill up your sander and sling danish oil everywhere, lol.


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## BigRedKnothead

^Yikes Pez. The only grain filling I've like was just sanding back poly coats to fill.

Bob- I'm diggin those tails, and the handsome mallet;-)

Drilled mortises for stress relief today.


----------



## summerfi

Not perfect, but not bad for freehand. I probably should invest in a dovetail guide.


----------



## theoldfart

Bob, they look pretty darn good. A question, do you use a guide to sharpen crosscut saws? :-0
Just being a $mart a$$. I have two of your saws and I know the angles on them are a lot more complex then those drawers!


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## TheFridge

Solid work bob. Solid. A lot better than I could claim.


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## walden

I say no guide Bob. The dovetails look great and will only get better with practice. At this point, a guide would only stifle your learning curve.


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## jmartel

Haven't posted any photos in a little bit, but here's where I'm currently sitting. Just little details left. Shop is an absolute mess right now. Upper center piece obviously isn't in place, and has the crown molding gluing on as we speak. Crown molding will be getting the dentil blocks once sanding is completed. Couple pieces of trim left on the lower cabinets, some minor door detail stuff, and shelves. Then probably a week of sanding followed by finishing.

Not sure if you can tell in photos, but the upper and lower moldings have continuous grain patterns.

EDIT: Just noticed the right door in the center cabinet is backwards. The face side has straight grain and no sap wood like the left door.



















Crown even has a bit of curl in the walnut as well. Figured I'd give a little something extra there. Not sure if it will be noticeable when finished or not though.


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## summerfi

That looks terrific Jeff. Great job. I can sure relate to the shop being in a mess during a big project like that.


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## CL810

Looks really nice Jtainment!


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## Pezking7p

Bob, dovetailed looking clean! I like the wood, is that walnut with a lot of sapwood in it? I love sapwood.

Jeffy, big pieces can sure eat up a shop but that looks good. sanding is the worst, but a week? Holy cow I don't envy you. I normally get mrs Pez to help sand.


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## walden

It looks great Jmart! Looking forward to seeing the finished product.


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## jmartel

Thanks guys. It's getting there.

Pez, I'm not sure that it will take a week, but I always underestimate time, so it wouldn't surprise me if it does.

And it looks to me like Bob is using cherry with sapwood.


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## DanKrager

Jextra, that curly piece is really gonna pop with finish on it! If one can see this much curly before finish…

The whole thing is looking nice. This is entering the stage where I get really discouraged about my big projects. The lowest point is when the stain (if any) is dry and it looks like plowed dirt. Every thing is fussy, I'm stressed about time, worried about last minute mistakes, and generally trying to keep it all together in my head so I don't miss something. I know where every defect is and they capture my attention too much. I hope you don't experience that! I well remember one project where things were going so well…everything looked really nice and I was pleased and excited to deliver a series of asymmetric cabinets assembled into an entertainment center to a noted citizen in my home town. Got it there and realized I had somehow built the mirror image. I literally sat down and cried. I am pleased that you seem to be relaxed and able to enjoy doing this, and doing it so well too!

Here's something I found interesting. While I was installing custom pieces, the customers usually were polite and didn't "hover", but I knew they were curious and couldn't wait to "make it their own". No matter how hard I tried for perfection, they would invariably find some detail to "fix". So I learned that while I was installing and I knew they were in the next room listening, I would pause and say out loud "Krager, you do nice work". That worked most of the time, but what was foolproof, I discovered by accident. European hinges had just become available and popular in the U.S. and I used them for the first time on a large project. As you know the door hinges are adjustable, and I had failed to tighten the adjustment so the door was a bit out of alignment with the others. I didn't notice it before the customer came in for the "final inspection" and of course they noticed it. Quickly I adjusted and tightened the hinge and the project was pronounced perfect. I had to bite my tongue to suppress the urge to point out other defects, a common ailment of custom woodworkers. Thereafter, I left an "obvious" easily fixed issue for the customer to discover and if they didn't, I pointed it out by fixing it. They were impressed with my attention to detail!

DanK


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## summerfi

The drawer sides are cherry. The fronts are elm and will be face veneered with quilted maple. Both were cut on my sawmill. These are for my saw till. It's kind of cool to take a project all the way from log to finished furniture.


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## DanKrager

+10^ on that Bob!
DanK


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## RPhillips

Looks like some manspreadin' up in here!

Looking good guys…


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## summerfi

You asked for leaded glass doors on my new saw till? Leaded glass doors it shall be. Stand by.


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## theoldfart

Going to look good, really good.


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## DanKrager

Well, well, well, Bob. Never thought about logo! Now if you use those, will you have to fill the cabinet with saws having your logo? 

DanK


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## daddywoofdawg

Here is my first chair I've ever built.









And the jig I designed to drill duplicate holes in the slats.


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## johnstoneb

Bob
That is going to be nice.


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## ToddJB

I'm pumped to see how this turns out, Bob


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## TheFridge

Finally got a chance to rework the till and put it on my bench. I put the planes I use to most in it.


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## jmartel

Dan,

Surprisingly I've found so far that I've really only made one mistake on it that would bug me. The upper center cabinet is about 1/2" shorter than the bottom, not sure how that happened. But it will get shimmed with 2 pieces of 1/4" ply with some walnut covering the ply edges and it will be good again. Otherwise it's going pretty well, albeit slower than I planned.


----------



## PhillipRCW

So Dan talked me into posting my rough sketches on here. I am designing a modern line of furniture and was wanting some feedback on it. I know it's not hardcore woodworking, but as a minimalist design I think it looks good so far. I'm waiting a few jobs to be finished so I can afford the prototyping. The frames are all metal, the wood can really be anything. I plan on it being customizable to a point. The coffee and dining tables are live edge slabs turned in with the glass down the middle. All of the wood will have a small reveal to simulate a floating top, and the glass will just serve to highlight that idea.

The frames can be polished, raw, or powder coated. I'm thinking white frames and black walnut for the prototypes.

Any suggestions or comments are welcome.


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## PhillipRCW

Jmartel, that piece is awesome. I can't wait to get a better shop to start doing bigger pieces. I'm working on sketches for a MCM hutch. Hopefully it will turn out how I'm hoping. I am horrible at sketching, as you can see above. I normally just start building and go from there. I write down measurements as I go. I started selling at a local store, so I'm going to stop taking commissioned work for a bit and work on some higher quality pieces that I want to do. It seems all the commissioned items have been pinterest ideas or ana-white stuff. I hate them so much.


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## AndyPitts

Phillip,
Not trying to change your design, but why metal legs on the dining table? Those curved legs beg to be bent laminated wood strips, a little more beefy with the top thickness scaled down a little and the corners softened.


----------



## Pezking7p

Metal legs are easy to make or have made and in stock. Then you just pick a slab and finish it. Makes building to order easy. I kinda like the idea but I don't know if I understand your floatin top reveal. I would think the finished edges of tha slab would look great without having to add a frame.

I need to post sketches here. Bbl tonight.


----------



## PhillipRCW

Andy, they're still very rough sketches, so not all the dimensions are solid, but I was thinking metal because I could do some cool twisted steels legs or even just a nice bow to it. I haven't thought about doing the wood legs mainly because I like the idea of having the whole frame one color, but I'm not opposed to experimenting with wooden legs. I'll be in the prototype stage for a bit. I really want to get everything right and make a push through local designers here in town for the higher end clients. I have some contacts who are very close to several OKC Thunder players. I'd love to get it right before they show off pictures to them. I need to get better at sketchup to see what it might look like.


----------



## PhillipRCW

Pezking. I've been toying with the idea of leaving the finished edge and redesigning the frames, but I think I'll do that on the next line I work on. So many people do just a slab table with metal legs. Once I get pictures done I think the floating top will make more sense. There will be a reveal between the frame and wood and minimal mounts so you really have to look for the connections. The dining room table will have to have two bars running across the middle. Haven't found a way around that one. But I'll do it lower so it still has the "floating" idea.


----------



## putty

Bob, please send progress pics of your leaded glass…or start a blog!


----------



## Mean_Dean

> Here is my first chair I ve ever built.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the jig I designed to drill duplicate holes in the slats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - daddywoofdawg


Nice looking Adirondack-won't have trouble finding that thing in the dark! You just need another one, and a side table to complete your set.


----------



## summerfi

> Bob, please send progress pics of your leaded glass…or start a blog!
> 
> - putty


I will, but I haven't started yet. LOL

I'm nearly finished with the drawers, then I'll make the door frames, then the leaded glass.


----------



## camps764

PhillipRCW - I dig the sketches - neat idea. There's another woodworker that does something very similar with Live edge tables and glass down the middle. The glass simulates water and makes the live edge look like river banks. Greg Klassen - GregKlassenFurniture


----------



## PhillipRCW

Yeah camps, I love Greg's work. I actually contacted him about my ideas. Where he really focuses on the live edge being the center point and recesses quite a ways into the slab, I'm just using mine to break up the heavy industrial feel of the metal. The glass will inevitably show the live edge, but I feel that once it's done there will be a pretty good distinction between our styles. My best friends dad was a Glazier when I was little, and dad taught me a lot about woodworking. I've had this idea for years of blending the two, but finally applying it to an actual piece of furniture.

If the first models do resemble his River tables too much I think I'll change them up It's not my goal to copy his work, more to create my own.


----------



## AndyPitts

Phillip, I am very interested in seeing where this goes. Keep us posted. Thanks, Andy


----------



## PhillipRCW

Will do sir. I still can't wait to make more intricate wood pieces. I'm hoping to make a dining table soon using dovetails as the connections around it and then a play on tongue and groove for the table top glue up. I've never done dove tails before because I normally don't like them. I want to use them in a very different way and make them visible on every side. Hopefully my idea works out. It again won't be a typical style, but I don't build much of that unless it's commissioned.


----------



## ToddJB

Anybody know of some good plans for a hanging porch swing? I'm considering making a couple for the house.


----------



## chrisstef

I got you Todd:

http://www.calredwood.org/pdf/Projects/Adirondack+Swing.pdf

I used these plans at the last house for a porch swing. Came out solid as a rock. I used braided cable instead of chain all though. Make sure you leave some space between the seat slats for leaves and crap to fall through. I didn't and it made clean up a pain.


----------



## PhillipRCW

I was just looking for an adirondak swing the other day. My friend is wanting to build one for his wife.


----------



## chrisstef

Who's your buddy?


----------



## ToddJB

thanks stef! not sure if I want to go with the Adirondack look, but the but groove and seat angle are the main things I'm after. Was it comfortable?


----------



## chrisstef

Yea it was pretty darn comfortable in my opinion. You may want to dry run the width of the seat to make sure you've got enough overhang for your legs.


----------



## ToddJB

Good thought.

I think I want to go for this kind of look, only porch swing'ed out


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Hey folks, I'm full bore starting my new position at work as well as the relocation process, so I might not be around as much this summer.

Phillip- glad you posted your designs. Hopefully you'll keep us posted and get some good feedback here.

Andy Pitts- I'm sure you've seen I have your sight linked above. You do some fine work there my friend. Welcome LJs and our little forum.

Check out this filing cabinet from Andy's site:


----------



## Hammerthumb

Good luck with the new position Red. Keep us posted how you are doing.

Cool chair Dean.

Looking forward to your build Todd.

Andy has vision!

Carry on.


----------



## camps764

Phillip - very cool. I don't think they resemble them too much - was just sharing some similar work. I agree with Andy - I think you've got some cool designs and I'm looking forward to seeing them move from sketch the real life.


----------



## Pezking7p

Filing cabinet is cool as balls.

How detailed do you folks make your sketches? Do you draw individual parts with joinery and fit pieces together? Traditionally I make extremely detailed drawings (and fit all the parts together and check for fit) but I'm just not skilled enough in sketch up. I spent so long drawing in another program I find it hard to learn a new one.


----------



## DanKrager

Yes, Pez, I detail everything because it save so much headache. I'd rather discover a weak point or interference in the virtual world. And it gives me dimensions that are pretty reliable. I print one perspective view of as many parts as will fit on a piece of paper where the major and critical dimensions can be viewed quickly.

I was trained in manual drafting and hand drew for years (on E sized schematics in ink…no pressure) until I learned the magic of AutoCad. I spent way too much grocery money on it and spent countless very short nights learning how to use it. It took several months of intensive effort to learn its capabilities and I hated to give it up (cost of upgrades). BTW that effort paid off handsomely because my son, now a senior architect at SSOE, had early access to 3D modeling and was way ahead of anyone in his class and same later at work. Eventually I came across SU and was frustrated at how different it was. I was trying to think in vectors, which is kinda like stick building a house. This was truly a different mind set. A few tutorials, watched some wizards, and was soon surprised at how quickly it came together. So much automation and inferencing which I didn't like at first because I couldn't control it. Now, impressed by the technology used…I hope they don't screw it up…came close on latest version. I think it is worth your time and effort to learn what one or two new things you need to know for that next drawing and build your repertoire slowly that way. 
DanK


----------



## jmartel

I do all the joinery as well when I make something up in sketchup.


----------



## PhillipRCW

I definitely need to learn how to use Sketch up. I just started the other day. I'm one of the weird ones who does most of the numbers in my head or just scratched on some paper as I build. I normally have overall dimensions in mind and just start building. I can see where on some of the more advanced joinery that could get me in trouble, but it's worked well so far. I don't do production items yet, but I know when I start I will have to make quite a few patterns and jigs, and I'll also do a better job at measuring.

Thanks for all the feedback on the sketches. I'm still considering different legs for the dining room table, but I will definitely post progress and final pictures as I get them moving a long. Once it's all done I'll probably do a small blog about them from start to finish.


----------



## jmartel

If you work with paper, it might be worth picking up a couple pads of graph/engineering paper. Then you also have a pad to store all your old designs in as well so you can revisit them later.


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## PhillipRCW

That's a lot better idea than scrap paper bags and cardboard. lol.


----------



## jmartel

Engineering paper will have title blocks and 3 hole punches so you can store it in a binder. Normal graph paper is just graph paper. I went through a lot of engineering paper at school.


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## PhillipRCW

I will have to look into some. I would love to go back over a lot of the projects I made while growing up. Lost all my pictures and stuff in the tornado that came through Moore in 2013. May have to just lock up sketches in the safe here. At least that's bolted to the ground. Not going anywhere like the laptop did.


----------



## b2rtch

I fail to understand why anyone likes Adirondack style of furniture.
You could not give me any.


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## PhillipRCW

I like the modern twist on them. I may not like the older typical design, but I'm a big guy and I fit pretty comfortably in an Adirondack chair. It's also extremely comfortable when built right.


----------



## jmartel

Different strokes for different folks.

Personally, I have an extreme strong dislike for modern furniture and for reclaimed rustic looking stuff. But other people love it. Some people don't like A&C or Greene & Greene furniture, but to me it doesn't get any better. Biggest thing I'm happy with is that my wife and I have the same taste in furniture so there's no fighting over who gets their way.


----------



## PhillipRCW

I'm the same way. There's a lot of the modern stuff I can't stand. I build it because its a busy market with very little competition there. It's also fun to mix the reclaimed with the modern industrial because you get a wider consumer base. In our house though we have a few rustic accents, but I like well built items. To be honest, I'm a horrible woodworker when it comes to knowing which design is what kind. I couldn't pick out anything other than MCM really. It all blends together for me. I mix them here and there in the house, but I try to stay away from labeling my pieces a certain style. I feel like that comes across somewhat hippyish, but honestly I just try to do my own thing. If you like it, thanks, if not, oh well.


----------



## b2rtch

When I was a cabinet maker in France, my favorite style then was Louis Philippe but I built and repaired a lot of real antiques furnitures


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## AndyPitts

> Andy Pitts- I m sure you ve seen I have your sight linked above. You do some fine work there my friend. Welcome LJs and our little forum.


Thanks Red, and yes, I did see the link the first day I joined the forum. To say I was surprised to be counted among the likes of Tom Hucker and the others would be an understatement. Thanks!

I read your interview with pleasure. Your benches are works of art!

Andy


----------



## AndyPitts

> Filing cabinet is cool as balls.
> 
> How detailed do you folks make your sketches? Do you draw individual parts with joinery and fit pieces together? Traditionally I make extremely detailed drawings (and fit all the parts together and check for fit) but I m just not skilled enough in sketch up. I spent so long drawing in another program I find it hard to learn a new one.
> 
> - Pezking7p


Thanks Pez. I sometimes draw joinery (in DesignCAD), but sometimes no if the joinery is obvious to me. But I always draw the parts to fit exactly (but without tenons, sometimes), even if I know I have to make a piece longer for tenons, for example. Depends on the complexity of the piece and if I have enough midfullness to pay attention to making my blanks large enough for the joinery. In any case, DesignCAD lets me get my dimensions spot on. I just did a vid on that:


----------



## jmartel

With the crown on the middle piece and it clamped into place.


----------



## ToddJB

Looks great, jmart. Will there be a back panel or open?


----------



## TheFridge

You must have your flannel on


----------



## jmartel

Todd, there will be walnut panel backing on all the cabinets, but not on the TV opening.

Fridge, no flannel today. I did wear plaid though.


----------



## CL810

Jeff, looks good and I'm looking forward to see the finish applied. Have you decided how to finish it?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nicely done Jeff!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Okay, the second commission piece has been negotiated and a 'half-down' check is on the way!

jbuilder, that is looking spectacular! And you do incredible work, Andy Pitts. Seriously.


----------



## DanKrager

WHAT? Two in one year? Smokin' Smitty! What is it this time?

Congratulations.

DanK


----------



## jmartel

CL, it's going to be getting Arm-R-Seal in satin. I figure it's a fairly easy finish that I have used a bunch so that will work well for this.


----------



## ArlinEastman

OK

Here are some pictures of the High Chair I started 5 years ago for my first Grandchild and being in an out of the hospital and Dr. visits and being sick got in the way.

I think that the time laps was OK since I now know a lot more about woodworking than I did back then.

Everything you see in not put together but in pieces arranged for the photo.

In the first photo you can see the woods I am using is Black Walnut, the slats in back are Cherry, and everything else is QSRO.









These are the legs in QSRO. The planes did not call for it but I rounded off the bottoms so it looked different.









Group picture









The planes also did not say anything about putting any angle of degree from the seat and the legs. I drilled the holes where they said and put in the legs with the dowels in them like the plans said. I notice directly that the whole thing would fall over. So I had to make a new seat out of 8/4 black walnut and I tested a few holes from 5, 7, 10, and now 15 degrees so the legs splay out better and will not tip over. 
So now it seems the 15 degrees works best, however, I do not know if I should put the legs at 45* from the corners or go directly from the back and front?

Any Ideas?

Last his will affect the length of the step going up into the chair and also the braces between the legs too. Any ideas how I should attach them to each of the legs?

Thanks


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> WHAT? Two in one year? Smokin Smitty! What is it this time?
> 
> Congratulations.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Awright, wise guy… It's a referral from the first Table, Buffet and Bench set for another set of same. Only a different design for the buffet. 

Longer build schedule, slightly higher quote based on 'lessons learned.'


----------



## DanKrager

Man! You gotta LOVE referrals. Nice.
DanK


----------



## Iguana

Arlin,

That's going to be a good-looking high chair.

As far as splaying out the legs, 15° seems a little extreme. I'd probably go with around half of that, or somewhere in the 7°-10° range. This would be for the front and back legs, and I'd also orient the splay at the 45° you mention.

This makes the joinery for the stretchers a bit awkward as you will no longer have legs square to each other due to the splay.

Best joinery for the stretchers/legs is mortise and tenon.


----------



## johnstoneb

Arlin
I think I would go in the 7 deg. range. Like mark recommended

That is going to be a nice looking chair


----------



## ArlinEastman

Thanks guys. I did try the 7 deg. and it did not seem enough so I went to 10 deg. and that still did not seem enough.

I seen my other grandkids push back in their high chair and almost tip them over.
So do you still think it should be 7 deg.?

Now on the M/T how do I do them? Also how long would I make the tenon's and how would I know how long to make the tenon's and how deep the mortis's?

Last I will have to use a hand saw since I do not know how to do it on the table saw.


----------



## Buckethead

> WHAT? Two in one year? Smokin Smitty! What is it this time?
> 
> Congratulations.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager
> 
> Awright, wise guy… It s a referral from the first Table, Buffet and Bench set for another set of same. Only a different design for the buffet.
> 
> Longer build schedule, slightly higher quote based on lessons learned.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Bucket thinks dan was earnestly commenting. 

Your first commission turned out quite nice, and the offer of a second reflects the good results of the first. Congrats, Smitty!


----------



## CFrye

Congratulations on the referral, Smitty!
Probably really stupid question… From where is the leg angle on the high chair being measured? Imaginary line drawn vertically from chair seat to floor? Is chair seat flat and parallel to the floor?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Bucket, you might be right. I know Dan is a very, very productive craftsman, so I took it as a good natured ribbing.


----------



## DanKrager

Yes, Smitty. A poke. Mutual admiration goin' on.
DanK


----------



## ArlinEastman

> Congratulations on the referral, Smitty!
> Probably really stupid question… From where is the leg angle on the high chair being measured? Imaginary line drawn vertically from chair seat to floor? Is chair seat flat and parallel to the floor?
> 
> - CFrye


Candy

The seat is level with the floor well hopefully anyway. lol


----------



## Buckethead

IM SO NAIVE


----------



## johnstoneb

Arlin 
In the end you have to go with what you feel comfortable with. They are your grandchildren, you know them best and you don't get anything more precious than grandchildren.


----------



## j1212t

Excellent news for the new order Smitty!

My comission is on the way as well. Been busy with life outside of woodshop for most of tht time. BUT the 14 linear feet of DTs are cut. The barron guide is a joy to use but I find that for half binds its easier to cut the pins freehand.

Made for quite an easy glue up, everything is done on the cases, flushing the pins and tails and working on the fold-down table is on way at the moment.

Will post pics at some point when I get them on the computer.


----------



## fatandy2003

Lee Valley clearance event starts tomorrow. Not sure what goodies will be available, but may be worth checking out…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Finally got the blog caught up with my actual progress.

http://www.westfallwoodcraft.com/2015/06/dining-set-tutorial-3-front-legs-and.html

Feel free to note any typos or grammatical errors;-)


----------



## ArlinEastman

> Arlin
> In the end you have to go with what you feel comfortable with. They are your grandchildren, you know them best and you don t get anything more precious than grandchildren.
> 
> - johnstoneb


Thanks John
I think I will wait until Dan gets over to the house and tells me and shows me how to do it right.


----------



## dbray45

This is for all of you that work with hide glue - or want to. My better half bought this Mini Slow Cooker from Bed Bath … for $10 or $12. I bought a second one to see it it heats the same and it does. The water come up to a 165 (F) which is perfect for hide glue. Put your can of glue in the water, heat it up and you have a nice ceramic glue pot. Takes about a 1/2 hour to 45 minutes to heat up.

For the money, this cannot be beat.

My wife wanted it for a fondue pot. She told me I can have my own and cannot touch hers - wonder why?


----------



## jmartel

That's a good tip, David. I probably would have done something similar had I not gotten my Hold Heet glue pot for like $30 used.


----------



## Mosquito

I used one of those small dip sized crock pots for a little while too. Great way to "test" whether or not the process might work for you (that's why I did it)

What I like about the Hold Heet is that I can take the thinner walled liner out, and fill it with hot tap water and it warms up the whole thing faster than the crock pot did.


----------



## derekcohen

I am presently busy with another build. This is a lingerie chest for my wife. It is a little like a modern bombe insofar as the carcase has curved sides and curved drawers (front and side).

There is a long way to go, but pop in an take a look at the progress as it occurs (warts and all).

The first post was here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/LingerieChest1.html

The remainder of the posts (along with other builds) in on this index page (scan to the bottom of the index page): http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/index.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^That's gonna be nice Derek.

I've still yet to use the kind of hide glue you heat. I like the titebond hide glue just fine though.

Doing a little more work before I have to start breaking down this shop of mine in the coming weeks.

Cherry back slats….begin.


----------



## jmartel

Looking good, Derek. I like the design.


----------



## DanKrager

Hoo boy BRK. I hope those movers don't scramble your parts too badly! You've got an awesome start!
DanK


----------



## ArlinEastman

Dan came over several hours ago and he told me what I needed to do and how to do it. I REALLY could not have figured it out with out him.

Sure is nice to have friends who know more they I do.


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, I wish I had someone around me that I could call on in times of need.

Stopped into NW Woodworker's gallery today after lunch and grabbed a few photos. Lots of very impressive stuff, with equally impressive price tags.

I really liked the back of these chairs and how well they highlighted the grain of the walnut.









G&G sofa, but it doesn't look that comfy.









The walnut chair in the back is a rocking chair.









Some nice G&G chairs with a slab table









And a very nice G&G/Asian table with some G&G chairs. The table was listed at $12k, and chairs were like $1200 each.


----------



## jmartel

And the entertainment center is ready to start sanding tomorrow. Couple small things left to do like put trim on the shelves and to widen the doors with some extra scrap, and then add dentil molding to the crown.



















And compare it to what the design was based off of:


----------



## TheFridge

Ready to see some of the grain with finish. Good work.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

DanK- I've actually considered just loading up the chair parts in my pickup. Maybe even the lumber I have specifically labeled. Kinda funny where the priorities are;-)

Jmart- Have you mentioned how your gonna finish that monster? Spray? 
I really like ALL the furniture in those photos. Especially the dining chairs in the last set. Sofas like that can be pretty oomfy if the cushions and side pillows are done right.

Arlin- Glad your back rollin on the high chair.


----------



## terryR

JMart, entertainment center looks fabulous!
+1 to looking forward to a finish on the wood.

Red, very intriquing how priorities change…last time we moved I moved every piece of crap we own, but the computers scored the front seat of my truck. Next time (hopefully a year or so) the hand tools ride with me up front!


----------



## AndyPitts

I've only been to NW Woodworkers Gallery once in 2007, and loved it. Not sure when I will get to Seattle from Virginia next, but will be sure to stop in there.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Terry- We are fortunate that my employer pays for professional movers- a first for the wife and I. Was kinda funny though, we had to fill out a "high value" sheet. Basically my hand tools are worth more than anything else in our house..LOL.


----------



## jmartel

Thanks guys. I'm itching to get the damn thing done and out of the garage, and I'm sure the guy who is paying me is too. I told him 2 months and we're coming up on 3 this weekend. I got the shelves trimmed out this morning, but now it's time to go see Jurassic World. Final door work after that and starting to sand tonight.



> Jmart- Have you mentioned how your gonna finish that monster? Spray?
> I really like ALL the furniture in those photos. Especially the dining chairs in the last set. Sofas like that can be pretty oomfy if the cushions and side pillows are done right.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Going to go with what I know and use Arm-R-Seal in Satin. I figured it would hold up well and it's pretty easy finish. I don't want to be messing with a spray gun since I'm pretty inexperienced on something this large.

And yeah, I took some photos of the chairs in the last set last time I was there too. Might use it for inspiration for when I build dining chairs.


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## BigRedKnothead

> And yeah, I took some photos of the chairs in the last set last time I was there too. Might use it for inspiration for when I build dining chairs.
> 
> - jmartel


If so, you could totally start with the plans from Kevin Rodels chair in FWW. Change the back legs and back slats….and you pretty much have the same chair.


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## Pezking7p

Love the grain selection on your back pieces, red. Pretty funny about the high value sheet.

Jmart looking good. Crunch time, and the time when I'm always scared I'll screw something up. Wipe on is pretty no fuss though.

I love watching doucette and wolfe make stuff, but does anyone ever wish they would NOT stain a few pieces?


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## ArlinEastman

I would love to make a rocker sometime in the next few years. All of you guys here do a great job.


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## jmartel

> If so, you could totally start with the plans from Kevin Rodels chair in FWW. Change the back legs and back slats….and you pretty much have the same chair.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Yeah, I have that issue. I really liked those chairs too. I'm still not sure what direction I'll go with for the dining table. I either want a slab trestle table, A&C/Greene & Greene style, or a trestle table with figured veneer top. The chairs will match whatever I go with though.


----------



## jmartel

So I discovered last night that I was out of black walnut with the exception of some 8/4 stuff, and my stash of claro walnut. I'm not cutting up 8/4 stuff to trim doors or make molding out of, and I sure as hell am not going to cut up claro walnut for this, so looks like I gotta pick up another board or two today at lunch.


----------



## Hammerthumb

> So I discovered last night that I was out of black walnut with the exception of some 8/4 stuff, and my stash of claro walnut. I m not cutting up 8/4 stuff to trim doors or make molding out of, and I sure as hell am not going to cut up claro walnut for this, so looks like I gotta pick up another board or two today at lunch.
> 
> - jmartel


I know how you feel Jmart. I needed a small amount of walnut yesterday to make 1/16" stringing for an inlay. Took 1/2 hour of searching to find the last board of walnut in my cutoff stash. Thought it was going to be another trip to the lumberyard also.

It's getting real difficult to work in my shop. Its been between 108 and 113 for the last 12 days or so. The ac unit I have in my shop cant keep up. Going shopping for a larger unit tonight.

Good luck on the move Red. Are you going to have the dining set finished before you move?


----------



## jmartel

My problem was that I have boards that are the right thickness, but they are too short. I have boards that are longer in my cutoff stash, but they're too thin. So, lumber yard it is.

I was considering cannibalizing parts from my catbox build that got stalled out by a few other projects, but figured it wouldn't be worth it.


----------



## SouthpawCA

Has anyone seen the article about Coventry Cathedral Chairs? My wife heard about them and now "wants" a few. Are there plans out there to build these? From the pictures they look fairly easy to make. I could also put the image into Sketchup and get the dimensions. However, I can't see how the back rest is formed … may have to wing it.


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## jmartel

Lucked out and found a total of 2 decent looking boards in the "Common" grade stack. The rest was all garbage. Nowhere close to flat, checks, cracks, knots, holes, etc. I got another 10 bdft figuring that it should more than cover what I need it to do. The place used to sell really nice grade walnut at $6.75/bdft, but that's all now about $11/bdft, and the common grade is very hit or miss. Mostly miss. And I haven't seen anything pop up on craigslist in about a year now.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I just made a visit to my lumberyard. Finally talked my bud into letting go of his stash of curly maple. N/C. I'll pick it up the beginning of August. Gonna make a new dresser for my wife.


----------



## jmartel

Nice. I've got a stash of figured claro walnut that I'm hoarding. I have absolutely no idea what to do with it though. And some outstanding veneer with no plans at all, either.


----------



## Pezking7p

Don, the back reminds me of a drawknife. I think the backrest is simply cut on a bandsaw and smoothed out, then Attached to the stubs with m/t.

Do you guys pay less for lumber when buying from home grown mills? Also, if I'm storing lumber and building in my shop, which is an outbuilding, am I wasting my money on kiln dried lumber? Seems that within a month or so it would lose its kiln driedness.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I was graced with another LJ visitor in my shop and home…as John2005 stopped by. Our families had a really nice afternoon together. Wished we lived closer. It makes me feel a little less crazy with the realization that I really would be friends with my cyber buddies in real life;-)


----------



## jmartel

> Do you guys pay less for lumber when buying from home grown mills? Also, if I m storing lumber and building in my shop, which is an outbuilding, am I wasting my money on kiln dried lumber? Seems that within a month or so it would lose its kiln driedness.
> 
> - Pezking7p


Yes. My general rule is if I can't get it for ~50% of retail price, I'd rather go to the lumber dealer. They typically have better stock with less chance of warping. Not sure on the kiln-driedness as my lumber sits in the garage.


----------



## Mosquito

is there much of a difference between kiln and air dried when it comes to cost? I haven't done enough purchasing of both to pay attention (my source of rough lumber is same price regardless)


----------



## jmartel

I think it's more of a cost difference from private party vs dealer. The private party sellers are usually air dried if they mill it themselves. Kiln dried if someone is just getting rid of a bunch of stuff so they have space. I've bought both off of craigslist.


----------



## jmartel

So, I knew this build was going too smoothly. I got some veneer sand-through on one of the cabinets in 3 spots. One will be covered up by the upper cab so no big deal. The other one is inside the cabinet, so it needs to be fixed, but not a huge problem. The third one is on the outside on the outer edge. So, needs fixed, and fixed well.


----------



## CFrye

Don, I found this pic of the back that may be of some help?


----------



## Buckethead

I was interested to see that too, candy. Thanks!

It's an interesting design feature. Those chairs didn't do much for me initially, but the more I look at them, the more I like them. Some clever design. Understated elegance. Functional.


----------



## AndyPitts

> Also, if I m storing lumber and building in my shop, which is an outbuilding, am I wasting my money on kiln dried lumber? Seems that within a month or so it would lose its kiln driedness.
> - Pezking7p


Dan, the success of unconditioned storage depends on the average relative humidity outside where you live. I see you are in NC, and I think most of NC has a climate similar to eastern Virginia, where I live. Air dried lumber around here gets to about 12-14% MC, while we need 6-8% MC in our indoor furniture. So, yes, if you buy KD and then store it in an unconditioned space it will pick up moisture, but not all that fast. You have some breathing room if you build soon, within several months of purchase. But, there is another advantage to KD, and that is that the bugs (powder post beetles) are killed with the heat of drying. Somehow you need to make your furniture while the MC is still low (like 8%) and the bugs are dead. I solved that problem by dehumidifying my storage area so when I put my KD lumber inside I can rest assured that it will stay dry with no bugs. Seems to have worked well for me.


----------



## johnstoneb

I stopped by Woodcraft this afternoon and when I got home this was in the back of my pickup. So I backed up to the shop and unloaded it. I guess I will take the Craftsman to my daughter in Couer'd'Alene and when I get back put this together and see if it works.


----------



## CL810

I think you're going to be very happy with the saw Bruce.


----------



## dbray45

Andy and Pez

I buy from a local saw mill. He air dries everything to about 8 - 10%MC. I put it into my shop for a couple of weeks where I have a dehumidifier running 24×7. When done, my moisture reader reads 2% or less even on a fresh cut.

I had a mill that kiln dried everything (moved away) but only down to 8% - so the same thing applied.

One thing I have found, once you have the wood below 5%, it gets a lot more stable even when it is taken to a different place - I have a sister in law that took her table to Florida and it has been in an unconditioned space for 3 years.

When I move to Florida, I will miss the mill that I work with here. I seriously like the attention - I have to make some doors and he has pulled the wood and has it waiting for me; the quality of the wood - grain, it is cleaned up, cut straight and very consistent, after I finish drying it - it is a lot straighter; and it is not brittle like the box store stuff.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Congrats on the Sawstop Bruce.

I've yet to have trouble with moisture in air or kiln dried. .....knock on wood.


----------



## AndyPitts

> Also, if I m storing lumber and building in my shop, which is an outbuilding, am I wasting my money on kiln dried lumber? Seems that within a month or so it would lose its kiln driedness.
> - Pezking7p


Dan, 
Here's a useful link to a Forest Products Lab pub that talks about the relationship between relative humidity and equilibrium moisture content (EMC) in wood, plus monthly average outdoor moisture contents for lots of places in the US. (http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrn/fplrn268.pdf). From those tables you will be able to get a good idea of the EMC for air dried lumber in your area and what you can expect in a heated and air conditioned space. The one table that I find very useful I will copy here.


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen

Regarding the Coventry Cathedral Chairs have a look at this video: 



It is an interview with one of the carpenters that made them in 1960. Great story and lots of cunstruction details

These guys is building the new chairs. At their website i found these measurements of a chair with a lot of the same characteistics. Perhaps it can be usefull?


----------



## SouthpawCA

Thank you very much


----------



## jmartel

3 out of 6 cabinets are sanded. And I cut the dentil blocks tonight. First time cove cutting on the Tablesaw. Was pretty easy. Only did a 1/2 turn of the elevation wheel per pass.



















Other 3 cabinets will be sanded tomorrow, and I'll probably nail in the blocks tomorrow night as well. Then hanging the doors on Friday and starting finishing.


----------



## jmartel

5 of 6 cabinets sanded, and 2 of 3 have the blocks on top. Hopefully I can knock the last one out tonight.


----------



## CL810

Looking Fine Jtainment. Mighty fine.


----------



## jmartel

Thanks, CL. Took me until 10:30pm tonight to finish sanding the last section. Tomorrow is sanding shelves, cutting/sanding backing ply, and hanging doors. Then first coat of finish. Luckily I have tomorrow off of work.


----------



## Buckethead

Don't oversand. ;-)


----------



## JayT

Got the base of the prototype sofa table all glued up, just need to get some white oak for the top. Should be able to have a co-worker pick some up Tuesday.










A couple tweaks that will need made before starting on the walnut version. Biggest issue is the top corner joints. The way I did them here is probably OK for strength, but there has got to be a better way. What suggestions would you guys have for doing this three way joint?


----------



## CL810

First let me say that is going to be a real nice sofa table JayT. Hope it's for your home so you get to look at it years to come.

Not sure what your joinery is here and I'm assuming you mean simpler joinery…..

For attaching the arms to the legs of my blanket chest I used 1/2" dowels.









I did not make the mortises all that deep. I think 1/2" or 5/8" deep in each leg and 3/8" in the arm. It made a very strong joint. I've picked the chest up using the arms several times.

For your stretcher, I think a dowel joint here as well. Two 1/4" dowels in each joint; one going into the leg and one going into the arched piece. Assuming the arched stretcher is a mortise and tenon joint I don't think you will have any strength concerns with the top rail. Maybe assemble the legs and arched pieces first and then the rails? I think that would make it far easier to layout the dowel mortises.

Is there a stretcher running front to back in the legs we can't see?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Need to see a full picture of the table JayT. I'm not understanding the joint.


----------



## JayT

See if this side view helps, Paul. Combined with the pic above, you should be able to get a good idea of how everything goes together.










Thanks for the encouagement, Andy. This prototype is redwood and white oak and will end up outside for use in my grilling area. The next one will have a walnut base and maple burl live edge slab top for in the house. The interior one will also have large holes in the curved piece to provide some wine bottle storage, just didn't feel that I needed to do those on the prototype.

Not really concerned about simpler, I need stronger. No lower strecher, so the 8/4 cross piece on the top has to take any racking load. What I did on this one was just a regular M&T, with the mortise being 1/2 on the leg and 1/2 being into the cross piece. The problem is there is too much end grain to long grain glue surface and not enough long grain to long grain for me to be comfortable.

In this pic, the glue joints in green should be strong, while the ones in red are relatively weak.


----------



## upchuck

JayT-
I don't see any problem with the leg to top joint. There's plenty of long grain to long grain glue surface.
Maybe for the stretcher joint maybe something like this would could me made to work for you?
http://chestofbooks.com/architecture/Cyclopedia-Carpentry-Building-1-3/images/Fig-83-Double-Tenon-Joint-with-Four-Tenons.jpg
chuck


----------



## RPhillips

Any of you guys made a loft bed? I'm going to make one for my daughter soon. Most of the plans/designs I've seen haven't been that great.

Any suggestions?

I'd like to use actual joinery, like M&T joints, etc. I'm going to draw something up, just thought I'd drop a line here and see I can find any inspiration.

Construction will probably be yellow pine or poplar, she wants it painted white… so at least it won't cost as much.  This will also accompany her to college in a few years, so I'm going to be using these bed bolts to assist in the assemble to make it portable as well.


----------



## Pezking7p

Make the tenon into a sliding dovetail.


----------



## RPhillips

Probably go with something like this… k.i.s.s.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jay- I see what your getting at with the different grain directions on that joint….but I really don't think you'll have any problems. When in doubt I usually strengthen an M&T joint with a dowel or two. Probably don't want to drive dowel in the side of that joint with the two pieces meeting.

Maybe borrow a technique from Maloof and other chairmakers: drive a strong screw or bolt into the end of the tenon, and plug it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Rob, I built this loft bed for my son:









It's based on the woodsmith plans:








http://www.plansnow.com/dn1147.html

Not a terribly difficult build…..tablesaw, router, drill press. Buncha carriage bolts, borg formica for the desk. I built it out of 6/4 red oak because it was the same price as pine for me. It could totally be built of of southern yellow pine or the like. Also, I didn't use the aluminium tubing because I thought it would dent easily.

No regrets building it. The design is simple and strong. Still have the plans if you want them.


----------



## j1212t

> Any of you guys made a loft bed? I m going to make one for my daughter soon. Most of the plans/designs I ve seen haven t been that great.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> - RPhillips


Haven't made a loft bed, did make a bunk bed in the winter though. A few thoughts on the things you drew up and what you specified earlier. Just my ideas, so if anyone thinks the ideas are crap, I won't be offended. 

1. I would definitely put a cross brace in the bottom of the loft bed (maybe a few shelves?), at least on the back and on the side that goes against the wall. A bed has a lot of stresses to begin with, if you put the bed way up on the posts like a loft bed, it's a lot worse. So unless you are screwing it into the wall on the top, I would want to lock the long diagonals in, to minimize the racking forces and give the bed the best chance of surviving for a long time.

2. That construction is going to be a bear to be both portable and strong. I would do the bed frame in one piece, the sides other piece and the long slats would be fixed with bolts, screws etc. I feel that would be a good compromise in rigidity and portability.

3. In terms of joinery, if wouldn't do traditional M&T, instead, I would make "rabbets" by laminating the post out of 2 pieces. So if your posts are 4×4, use 2x material. So you just drop in the removable pieces, bolt them and call it done. You can ofcourse chop it, but laminating might be easier. (See Jay Bate's loft/bunk bed videos to see what I mean by the laminating of posts, if you haven't)

Just my 2 cents, and remember, my advice is worth as much as you paid for it.


----------



## jmartel

1st coat of finish went on the cabinets and doors yesterday. Didn't start the shelves yet, though. I got about half done before we had to leave to go see fireworks. Came back and did the other half. Finished up at about 2:30am. I used a whole quart of finish on just the first coat, which I wasn't expecting. Picked up a gallon of Arm-R-Seal this morning though. This is going to look good when it's done.


----------



## j1212t

My comission will be put in place tomorrow, minus one big shelf, which I'll add later. I haven't posted any pics, so just a few ones through the process here. Have been ridiculously busy, so it took me 6 weeks. But the customer is still happy, we'll see tomorrow after the delivery.














































Will do a finaly pic tomorrow once it's in place. I think it'll look pretty cool.


----------



## j1212t

> This is going to look good when it s done.
> 
> - jmartel


It's looking very good already! Nice work sir!


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## DanKrager

Wow Jake. Those shelves are awesome!

Jfiinisher, those REALLY do look good. I'm catching up from a long absence and didn't catch how you fixed the exposed sand-throughs. I'll read again if it's there.
DanK


----------



## ArlinEastman

> - BigRedKnothead


That is a nice looking joint and how it makes the table look nice too.

Dan

How do you think that would work on a High Chair that has a slant to it?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^I should have noted, I did not make that table….I was just showing an example of that joint.

Arlin, I suppose you could use an "Maloof joint", but they're a little involved to make. Most of it done with a handheld router. Something like this:


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## jmartel

> Wow Jake. Those shelves are awesome!
> 
> Jfiinisher, those REALLY do look good. I m catching up from a long absence and didn t catch how you fixed the exposed sand-throughs. I ll read again if it s there.
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


It wasn't posted. I have been working on fixing it all day. Colored pencils seemed to work the best. Unfortunately they like to wipe off with the finish so I've done it like 3-4 times.










Curious as to where and how far you think the sand through went based off of that photo.


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## DanKrager

It looks like you've done a remarkable job, Jtouchup! It's not fair to you to ask someone who has done this very thing longer than many of our readers have been alive, so…I'm hesitating.

OK. I'll bite.  The sand through occurred at the porous curve of the the wood grain as it exited the surface…that would be just inside the big curve. There isn't much you can do to improve the deception of color, perhaps a haze of reddish brown to extend that color a little farther into the curve. I like how you've continued the grain streaks…that's a major key to the deception. The more accurate the better. I've learned to use an airbrush with alcohol based dyes to establish the background color that doesn't bleed or move around. It's really hard to judge and there have been many "do overs".

Touch up is a work of art and is something that all finishers (the best ones) learn to do. I understand a reasonable living can be had doing just touch up and repair work if it interests one that much. It's a tough skill to master…you've got a good start!

Hint? Almost all commercial furniture finishes (I've described them before somewhere here) have a splatter distress pattern under the final finish coats. This distracts from any defects or repairs that might have been made. Now, Jtell, YOU MUST NOT REVEAL THIS TO YOUR CUSTOMER. Instead, let them find another more obvious and easily fixed defect! Do it while they watch, and you will have them as clients for life! 
DanK


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## jmartel

I asked you specifically because I figured you would be able to pick it out. I don't know that people who don't do woodworking could pick it out though. My wife couldn't really tell. It's definitely greyer in that photo because that was before putting finish on that section, and everything else around it had a coat on already. It's not perfect, but it is good enough. I don't think I can make it any better without making it worse. Here's a photo with finish on. There's sand through on the upper left that I haven't decided if I'm going to touch up or not. It won't be seen as it will be under the upper cabinet.










And I definitely won't be saying anything to them about it.


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## RPhillips

> We decided to make some explanatory cards , transformed here article, to explain as accurately as possible the often misunderstood concepts . For example , 95% of manufacturers surveyed we always say that standards are mandatory … or they are not. We expect to make between 5 and 10 explanatory sheets on regulation , standardization , CE marking … .They will succeed at the pace of our writing / proofing the year 2015-2016 .
> 
> luxury ergonomic chairs
> 
> - carrick01


Informative… thanks for the contribution…


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## DanKrager

Jalmostdone, that really does disappear. You did an outstanding job on that touchup!

DanK


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## jmartel

It's a shade lighter in that photo, but I think it's good enough for this purpose. Thanks for the comments though. I've only touched up one other spot in the past on a different project.

It's looking pretty good now with 2 coats on. I'll be damn happy when it's done and out the garage though. I've got no room to move and no clean flat surfaces left at the moment.


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## j1212t

I got 'er installed today. One more top shelf is to be made and attached, but that'll be done later.





































The client was beyond extatic, so that's a bonus. Obviously the wall wasn't square to the floor, and even the floor was out of whack a bit, so some creative problem solving was required to install it some what straight.

I probably will have some more commissions coming from these customers in the upcoming year, but currently I need to get the top shelf done and work on furniture for my house for a change. 

The fold down table at the end was quite interesting, haven't made anything like that before and I only put it together at the customer's place, but against all odds, it all worked out. The pics aren't great, but you get the idea.


----------



## jmartel

Looks good, Jake. Real good.


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## ShaneA

Nice job, I like the contrasting look on the DTs.


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## DanKrager

Jake, I can see why your client was excited. Boy that looks nice!

DanK


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## Pezking7p

Jake…!!!! Wow I love the finish on the slab and all the bow ties. As you've learned, it pays to provide a little room to scribe in cabinets.


----------



## j1212t

> Jake…!!!! Wow I love the finish on the slab and all the bow ties. As you ve learned, it pays to provide a little room to scribe in cabinets.
> 
> - Pezking7p


Thanks Dan. Could you elaborate on what you mean by "providing room to scribe in cabinets"? I know the theory of scribing cabinets to the wall. But your phrase has me a bit confused, maybe it's just because english is my second language.


----------



## TheFridge

Awesome work jake. The DTs look awesome.

Scribe in?


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## CL810

Cool work Jake. I've never seen white tails before - looks great!


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## Pezking7p

I just mean some extra to cut away if it needs to fit against a wall tightly. This might not have been appropriate for this piece…I originally viewed it on my phone and it looked more like a built-in whereas now it looks more like a hallway tree. Maybe someone else can explain better than I can…I think a picture is worth a thousand words and since I almost never post from a computer, doing pictures is hard.


----------



## j1212t

> I just mean some extra to cut away if it needs to fit against a wall tightly.
> 
> - Pezking7p


No need for pictures, now I understand exactly what you meant, thanks. Yeah, it was not a built in, so not an application in this case, But i'll definitely throw it in my back pocket for future reference. 


> Cool work Jake. I ve never seen white tails before - looks great!
> 
> - CL810


Cutomer wanted white body, I suggested the dark stain for top for contrast. Was a bear to stain them without having wrong colours seeping in, used really really small brushes and was quite the colouring work. Well worth the effort in the end though.


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## jmartel

After 3 coats, the cabinets look damn good. Minus a few hiccups, I'm extremely happy with how this is turning out. I'll see how it looks after a 4th and decide if I want a 5th coat or not. It might not need it, actually.


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## ToddJB

That's great to hear, j3coats, I'm rarely extremely happy with anything I make.


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## jmartel

Well, that's not to say that there aren't mistakes. There definitely is. Biggest one being that I made the upper center cabinet 1/2" shorter than the lower center cabinet. I shimmed it on both sides with some 1/4" ply and then added trim over so you can't tell.

There's also a few areas of sand through from where I started at too low of a grit. The walnut ply can be started out at 150 or 180 grit. Not 100 and 120 before that.

And the door fitment isn't even all the way around. But I don't think anyone will really be able to tell much on that.

The last 2 coats, my wife actually did half of the finishing. Still took us like 2 hours to do a coat. Unfortunately tonight and tomorrow she has other places to be so I'm on my own.


----------



## jmartel

One or two more coats on the backing boards, drilling for knobs on the doors, and putting door catches in and it is complete. Finally. At this point I just want it out of my shop. Delivery Saturday morning.


----------



## jmartel

I finally got the damn entertainment center out of the garage and delivered. Have to go back and do a few more things, but it's out and mostly complete.


----------



## JayT

Looks awesome, jmart.


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## DanKrager

Jcomplete, that is a worthy and beautiful piece. Well done, man!

DanK


----------



## RPhillips

Nice work Jmartini time!


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## jmartel

I'm pretty happy with the overall piece. Obviously some mistakes that only I will notice. My buddy texted a photo to his wife and her exact response was "Holy balls that looks great". So I'd say it went well. I wasn't that much of a fan of the knob selection, but obviously it's not my call.


----------



## Mahdeew

jmartel, You have done one heck of job on that project. It looks absolutely stunning. I wish people would realize the amount of time it takes to research, plan and develop a functioning project as you have done. Sure, once it is done and folks have the measurements and access to the process, it will take the 1/4 of time that you put into it. But really, if anyone does that, it should be with your permission and attribution whether you ask for it or not. Great job and thanks for posting every step of the way.


----------



## BadJoints

Looks great Jmartini!

How is the top central section joined to the sides? screwed and pegged? Do you have any concerns with the center section staying in place once they load it down?

And is it the camera angle or are the pegs in the second picture different heights?


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## jmartel

Thanks, mrjinx. Yeah, it was a lot of work. 3 months basically non stop. At least 4 nights a week.

Badjoints: the cabinets are all bolted together with 1/4×20 bolts and threaded inserts. The shelves don't line up exactly with the middle cabinet bottom unfortunately. Mistake that I didn't think about when drilling the peg holes.

Edit, I think you are actually taking about the hole plugs covering the bolted connections. They probably are different. I just eyeballed it when drilling.

I will be looking for brown hole plugs. I thought the ones I ordered were brown, but they turned out black instead.


----------



## BadJoints

Gotcha. The whole piece really comes together anyway. Had you considered cutting plugs from some of the scraps for the piece? You would be able to color and grain match, the plugs would be virtually invisible.


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## jmartel

I wanted the plugs easily removed should they need to remove an insert and put a new one in. The whole thing is designed to be moved a few times since they plan on moving in a couple years. And I wanted it to be easily repaired should fasteners go missing.


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## CL810

Jwelldone, looks great. I'm sure you'll get some referrals from this project.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

nice job jmart!!


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## Sprung

Great work to both of you, Jake and jmartel!


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## Hammerthumb

Well done Jmart!


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## CFrye

Obviously, you wore lots of flannel during the construction, Jmartel! 
(Somewhere down the line you will change your sig line and this comment will befuddle future readers…)


----------



## derekcohen

The Lingerie Chest build has added another chapter to my website.

The cabinet carcase is now complete and together as a dry fit.










You cannot see the curve on the front elevation in this photo, but it is clearer in the documentation ..










It had been my intention to post the carcase with completed draw blades - this would have been the next stage in any cabinet with straight sides. However it became increasingly apparent that, as a result of the many curves, this build is a tad more complicated, and I am have been left wondering whether I would ever get to be in a position to build the drawer blades as something else kept cropping up! It was a case of "I'd better to this before I get to that as it will not be possible later. And on and on ..

Here is the build in detail: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/PreparingForTheDrawerBlades.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Pezking7p

Nice, Jmart. I love when walnut comes out that color! I'm surprised they put it in a corner. I would have told them "nobody puts baby in a corner".

Looking for some input. I want to finalize a design for a tv stand/entertainment center this week. Looking for pretty basic A&C style with asian influence. The wood will be cherry, and I'll use pretty standard black iron craftsman hardware for pulls and hinges. I'm looking for overall critique or suggestions on design details (asian influence should be present, but subtle) to make it look better. I'm using the American Bungalow set from Thos Moser as influence, as well as the first picture below. I like the look of the thing but a few details I'm not sure of such as the style/number of window panes and the angled brackets under the top (see my cherry side table for reference to the angled brackets). I also specifically want to ask about using glass doors on an entertainment center….has anyone had any bad experience doing this and ending up with remote control deadspots?


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## BigRedKnothead

Lots of solid work going on here. Derek, I love the subtle difficulty in making that unique piece.

Jmart- Quality piece all-around. The walnut is so much more glorious that staining a lighter species to get the same look.

Pez- I like everything about that piece except for the door grids. They don't say A&C to me. Maybe one of these:








Or like the ones in my hutch…








^I made those panels removable so we could put glass in them one day.

Also I've never heard of remote issues from glass. I think the glass would look sharp.


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## Pezking7p

Thanks, Red. I'm glad you said something because the doors really were ho-hum. Here's a few options. None of them are screaming at me but I don't hate any of them.


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## j1212t

Jmartel - great work, well worth the wait for the customer.

Dan - I am very much partial to the door style that BRK made and showd us. So the top right one in your picture.

Question about veneers to the panel:

I am now going back into my kitchen cabinets project to finish 'er up and I am plannning on veneering the sides with contact cement. I hate the dark plywood, and with oak styles and rails, maple raised panels, I think that some oak veneer would really do them justice. Problem is, I've never done it, I've done research but I haven't been able to get much info on prefereed thicknesses.

So If you guys were to contact cement veneer sides of cabinets, what thickness veneer would you use?


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## jmartel

There's not that great of a selection of veneer other than the standard 1/42" (0.6mm) that I've seen, but at least the standard american hardwoods I've seen in 1/16" (1.58mm). The thicker you go, the easier it will be to not sand-through. But once you get to around 1/8" (3mm) then you start having to worry about movement.


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## jmartel

Pez, I like this style of door. Same style that I am using on the catbox where there's a shorter divider that comes down below the horizontal divider, but not all the way to the bottom of the door. It also sits about 1/4" proud of the horizontal divider for a layering effect. Looks a little asian-y styled to me.


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## byerbyer

^^Jmart - The entertainment center looks spectacular!

^Pez - Looking forward to what you come up with. I have built any A&C projects yet, but a Morris chair and possibly a sideboard are on the list if I can convince the better half.

Between work & the heat I haven't had time for any furniture building for a while, but I did manage to sneak in a special little project… Needless to say, happy times around the Byer residence these days!


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## JayT

Congrats, byer!


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## DanKrager

Pez, build two of them. I have a client that wants me to build one but she keeps procrastinating…perhaps indefinitely. If I drove by with one, I might tease her into buying… naw, too risky. Looking forward to the project!
Jswell, that has to feel good to complete a major effort like that and the customer is crazy about it! Congratulations. Now you're hooked on the jazz.

Congratulations to you too byer. At first glance I didn't even notice the ring! Shoulda used shavings as packing! But I bet your girl didn't miss it! LOL

DanK


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## byerbyer

> Congrats, byer!
> 
> - JayT


Thanks!



> Congratulations to you too byer. At first glance I didn t even notice the ring! Shoulda used shavings as packing! But I bet your girl didn t miss it! LOL
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Thanks!
It's hard to see on phone pic, but there are some wispy maple shavings for packing around the ring


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## DLK

I thought the shavings was the prize and the ring was just filler. LOL


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## jmartel

It's a good thing you didn't make a larger jewelry box, Byer. Then you'd be expected to fill it. Best to keep it small like that.


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## CL810

^ Jwise beyond his years.


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## byerbyer

^^Pro Tip via Jmart. That's more than just a hat rack you got there.


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## CFrye

Congratulations, byer! Love the A&C style stuff. It's on my list…someday.


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## RPhillips

Grat's Byer!


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## byerbyer

Thanks all!


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## Hammerthumb

Kidding me, right?


----------



## ToddJB




----------



## Hammerthumb

thanks Todd.


----------



## Bonka

I am not sure if this qualifies as furniture. My wife and I have made eight of these 1840 Shaker clocks and have one more to go for a friend of ours. Needless to say we are sick of them by now.
It is cherry with tung oil. Mechanical movement and the face is copied onto resume paper for the better tone.


----------



## DanKrager

I'd say that's pretty cool furniture, Jerry. 
DanK


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## JayT

Prototype hall/sofa table is getting finish and I took the day off work (had one more vacation day to use before next Friday or I lose it) so I'm starting to lay out parts for the final version of the table. Using two looong slabs of walnut from the same tree to keep color consistent.










I'd love to be able to use a piece the size of the one on the right whole (it's ~14 inches wide and over 11ft long) but there are too many knots, spits and some pith, so it is getting broken down. It's got gorgeous grain and color, though, with some caramel colored streaking.










One thing that many of you know, but maybe someone new to woodworking that is reading does not: Don't let the sawmill determine your boards. The grain of the wood should determine how you get the pieces, not the edge that the mill did in a straight line. In this slab, the grain follows the live edge not the cut edge, so here's a good example of how it will be broken down.










I'll cut this piece along a line indicated by the level, avoiding a large knot and following the grain direction, which is obviously not parallel to the cut edge. Not that long ago, I would have used the cut edge as a beginning and been cussing the project the whole time as I fought the wood instead of working with it. Live and learn.


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## Mean_Dean

"Live and learn."

Amen to that, brother…......!


----------



## JayT

Spent part of the day milling walnut for the final version of the table.

Did a lot of hand jointing and planing out bow and twist. Filled a 30 gallon trash can with cutoffs and shavings before switching power sources from JayT powered to electron powered. Think I'll copyright a new weight loss plan-the walnut workout.










Calling it quits for the day with all the parts at rough dimensions. Next step will be to cut out the arched pieces.










Really hope I don't screw anything up, this walnut is absolutely gorgeous.


----------



## pintodeluxe

> Thanks, Red. I m glad you said something because the doors really were ho-hum. Here s a few options. None of them are screaming at me but I don t hate any of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Pezking7p


I like the middle rendering, right door style the best. That is gorgeous.


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## byerbyer

Lookin good JayT. Thats some beautiful walnut!


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## jmartel

Now that the entertainment center is finished, I should be able to get back to working on the catbox again.


----------



## russellsh2

hey red and all. new here and i havnt read all the post on this forum yet. i had a question tho with alot of background. sorry. i came across an artist named eric freitas. amazing. works in metal and builds clocks. im inspired but i want to use wood. so i have been studying his work. ive discovered what his work is based on and what drives it. if im going to recreate some of his technique i must learn the foundation he draws from. not to get too detailed as if thats possible with me. his style is based on caligraphy. hes has taken caligraphic letters and expounded on the style. it obvious he knows caligraphy quite well and due to this fact when he draws up his designs, his style flows from him as apposed to me who is wrestling through redesigning the wheel to get to what i really want to do, create peices of art out of wood. so now that i have bored all of you with all the details back to furniture. to design the furniture i want to create i need a foundation to draw from. what i am looking for is a book that will describe the "rules of furniture" if you will. i dont want to waste the time and material redesigning the wheel. and i need to know terms. for instance. a table must have a table top. simple rule. and everybody knows the term. but what about the skirt. i just found out what that part of the table is called. the skirt. well till i know the term, its near impossible to ask questions or look up info about that subject. i need to know, does a table require a skirt and if not what the implications are by not having one. i need to know what the purpose is for having a skirt on a table. but its really not about the skirt. its about the "proper ways to design and build furnature". once i know these "rules" i can then find ways of pushing the boundaries of these rules. and i am less interested in modern building methods. you know like using particle board and just screwing a peice of wood to another peice of wood in the cheapest most cost effective way. i want to know the older ways like dovetails and joinery to produce art in furniture. so the quesion. do any of you know of a book that can give me the terms, proper design parameters and thinking behind why these parameters are what they are.


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## Mean_Dean

Russell,

A couple of thoughts:

A few months ago, upthread, Red and a few others were talking about a furniture-building book that they thought was a good book to have. I don't remember the name, but if you have some time, read backwards from here, and you'll find it. Also, check your local library for furniture-building books-you'll find too many to choose from, but start checking them out, and you'll learn a lot!

Also, check into woodworking classes at your local community college. They're usually just a hundred bucks or so, and meet one night a week for 12 weeks. You'll learn a lot, and they're interactive-you can ask questions!

As for tables, the reason they have skirts is to keep the table from collapsing. If they weren't present, you'd just have a top with 4 legs stuck to it, and it could, and probably would, fall over. The skirt boards keep the legs from racking, and then the tabletop sits on top of the base unit. The skirts are best attached with mortise and tenon joints, which further resists racking, so this is an important joint to learn. The last thing you want to have happen when you have the family over for Thanksgiving is to have the table collapse on you!

Lastly, I see that this is your first post-welcome to Lumberjocks! You'll find everyone here pretty knowlegable, and pretty helpful, so jump right in, and ask away!


----------



## jmartel

Russell,

I've got these Magazines/books from Fine Woodworking and it has a lot of the general type of information you are looking for. I've found them to be useful.

http://www.tauntonstore.com/how-to-design-furniture-017028.html
http://www.tauntonstore.com/building-furniture-017021.html

They have others that go more into specifics, though. So if you want a book that covers tables, then I'd probably go with something like one of these:

http://www.tauntonstore.com/tables-anthony-guidice-070469.html
http://www.tauntonstore.com/dining-tables-kim-carleton-graves-070609.html
http://www.tauntonstore.com/fine-woodworking-tables-and-chairs-071485.html


----------



## DanKrager

Russell, I've been thinking about your post and I like MeanDeans suggestions. Jreference has good links too. Know that you will encounter controversial issues where opinions differ sharply in some cases, so be prepared to find your own way through that without getting caught up in the controversy. It will be easier to sort things out when you are years down the road, but it can get frustrating in the early days because almost everyone seems to be an expert to you. You want to respect their opinion and rightly so, and keep in mind that we are all learning, even the most expert experts. If your experience differs, it's food for thought, study and questions.

To expand a bit on Dean's clear and specific response, many tables have been built without skirts. Perhaps they are considered rather crude now, but they are elegant in their own way and are very sturdy. Many tables are built so the legs are removable, which means that the leg to skirt joints (if any) are not permanent, but are very strong and sturdy if well built. You'll learn about all these options "from the books".

Just for the record, I'm an old bugger and so old English reigns in my world…racking=wracking, meaning the thing wiggles under load. Just FYI.

Welcome to LJs.
DanK


----------



## Mean_Dean

Ok Dan, you sent me running for my dictionary! (I hate it when I misspell words.)

Racking is a correct spelling-and so is wracking. Wracking is an older British spelling (presumably racking is a newer American spelling.)

So for efficiency's sake, I'll continue using the shorter version, as it takes less time to type out. In our busy lives these days, efficiency is very important!

The things one learns on a woodworking site!


----------



## DanKrager

I was afraid that would jiggle your tea kettle, Dean, but the noobie was looking to expand his vocabulary. And I am promoting the old ways in my latter days when I get a chance. Doesn't mean they're better, just a new experience for me, so the old spellings help set the mood. You must have a pretty good old dictionary…some of them ignore the old spellings completely.

More olde English:
noobie=nub=newbie originally noo bee meaning new meat…Vietnam.
dado=dadoe
plow=plough
etc.=etc.

DanK


----------



## DLK

> More olde English:
> noobie=nub=newbie originally noo bee meaning new meat…Vietnam.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


You forget leet:

n00b=n00b13=newbie


----------



## JayT

Prototype console table is done



















And here is its current use. My wife said the table is much too nice to just use for a grill, but she doesn't have another location for it, at the moment. I'm not sure why the indoor kitchen can have nice stuff, but my outdoor kitchen cannot, so here it stays.


----------



## theoldfart

It is Good.

Can't wait to see the final product.


----------



## Hammerthumb

That's a beautiful table JayT! I agree that it's too nice to use outside. As this is a prototype, what will be different on the next one?


----------



## johnstoneb

I agree with you JayT. You'll be more likely to use the outdoor kitchen when you have nice things to use.


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## ToddJB

Nice work, JayT


----------



## JayT

Thanks guys.



> As this is a prototype, what will be different on the next one?
> 
> - Hammerthumb


Indoor version will be walnut base with a live edge maple burl slab top. Wife and I both thought the prototype felt a bit heavy in the base, so the walnut version will have thinner legs and top supports. The final one will also have holes in the arched pieces for wine bottle storage.


----------



## Mean_Dean

The prototype looks like it came out great! Although I think the top needs to be an inch or two longer, to look more in proportion. Right now, it looks a little short.

I hope you put a good slathering of polyurethane on the top, to protect from grease stains!


----------



## JayT

I agree on the length, Dean. Unfortunately, that was the white oak I had to work with without making another trip to the sawyer. (4 hour round trip or wait several weeks until I was back in that area for work) The slab that will be on the final version is a bit longer.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> Prototype console table is done
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - JayT


Very nice design.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I dig it Jay. Holes for the wine bottles bring it together….otherwise I was feeling like the arches were too wide.

*Russell*, jumping back. The furniture design book we were talking about was likely "By Hand and Eye." It's a good one.

Other than that, Jmart linked my favs from FWW. They're really good:



> I ve got these Magazines/books from Fine Woodworking and it has a lot of the general type of information you are looking for. I ve found them to be useful.
> 
> http://www.tauntonstore.com/how-to-design-furniture-017028.html
> http://www.tauntonstore.com/building-furniture-017021.html
> 
> - jmartel


Last, I'd include Rogowski's Joinery book. 
http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-Illustrated-Guide-Joinery/dp/1561584010

Lots to learn, but that's part of the journey.

I about to embark on this today. Gonna be a little while til I have a functional shop again…..


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen

> And here is its current use. My wife said the table is much too nice to just use for a grill


Personally I can not think of a finer and more appropriate use for a nice table than my favorite cooking gear; a grill.
Looks great!


----------



## Pezking7p

Looks good, J. Hard to tell if it's the lighting or the black paint but it does look a little bottom heavy. I think some lightening up on the framing could improve it.

Been struggling for a week to finish drawing my entertainment center. Not finding motivation but I need to finish so I can get design approval from you fine gents. I have some serious questions about structure/joinery, particularly how you design these things without a face frame and how you secure the vertical dividers. Hopefully Ill have a skeleton to share later.


----------



## JayT

> I dig it Jay. Holes for the wine bottles bring it together….otherwise I was feeling like the arches were too wide.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


That was our feeling, too, I just needed to get a good idea of how to do the joinery with pieces that were similar to what the final versions would be. There were so many unknowns for me when designing this, hence making a prototype.



> Looks good, J. Hard to tell if it s the lighting or the black paint but it does look a little bottom heavy. I think some lightening up on the framing could improve it.
> 
> - Pezking7p


Black paint? Them's fightin' words. Why would I paint a solid wood piece? Oh, the insult. 

The base is actually ebonized redwood (steel wool & vinegar solution) Turned the redwood a beautiful dark brown, though a bit blotchy in spots. The pics in direct sunlight make it look darker than it actually is. The pic in the shade is much closer to actual color, at least on my monitor.


----------



## Pezking7p

Welllll crap. I'm sorry jayT. It's just this phone. I wouldn't judge you even if you did paint it, btw.


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## ToddJB

Wouldn't be as blotchy if you did just use paint


----------



## Woodbum

a


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## jmartel

Looks like next up instead of finishing the catbox is a pair of nightstands. This will be a bit of a change of pace and done out of Douglas Fir and stained. Not my choice, but it's what the wife wants. I made a deal where I get to pick all the furniture for the main floor and she gets upstairs.

Probably similar to this, except no top drawer, just a shelf.


----------



## jar944

> I buy from a local saw mill. He air dries everything to about 8 - 10%MC. I put it into my shop for a couple of weeks where I have a dehumidifier running 24×7. When done, my moisture reader reads 2% or less even on a fresh cut.
> 
> - dbray45


Would you care to share the name of the sawmill? Ive been looking for a "local" mill that isn't higher price wise than the local northland yard.


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## chrisstef

> Wouldn t be as blotchy if you did just use paint
> 
> - ToddJB


Burn.


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## Pezking7p

OK, in need of help.

Trying to draw this bad boy up, but I'm struggling with joinery. In the photo below, I think you can see how I was planning to join the bottom of the case to the sides with tenons. However, the side is supposed to house a panel and my mortises will go into the groove for the side panels. What to do? I can lower the bottom so that it does not interfere with the panels, but then the bottom will not line up with the aprons. I could also lower the front apron so that it is maybe 1/2" lower than the side aprons, but that doesn't seem right.

Why is it that none of my furniture books address these kinds of specific issues?


> !!!


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## DanKrager

Pez, you gotta know that I was clicking and clicking on this drawing trying to orbit and pan it so I could see the shelf better! Doh! Funny what you get used to…
I'm assuming the tenons are centered on the end of the shelf (or bottom). Why not "lower" them to the bottom edge of the shelf. That would likely clear your panel plough.

Most of the case work I've been around (and can remember) the top of the shelf was below the top of the rail. Then of course interference is not an issue. Is it important to line up those surfaces and why? The offset helps keep stuff corralled on the shelf.
DanK


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## Pezking7p

Dan, Thanks for the input. A lot of the problem is that I read some stuff about proper tenon sizes and it's messing with me trying to follow these "rules" that I read.

For some reason I don't like the aesthetic of the shelf having a lip when you open the door. That being said, it's better than turning a rail into swiss cheese.

I also thought I wouldn't like the side rails and front rail not lining up, but I'm toying with it now and I actually think it adds to the piece.

I must say, it's one thing to draw a piece up, but quite another to design the joinery for that piece. I've learned a ton just trying to get the damn sides and rails on this thing. Thank god you guys told me to draw the whole thing out, I'd be screwed twice over by now and back at the lumber store for round two.


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## Mean_Dean

Pez, maybe you could notch the panel to fit around the tenons, as long as it wouldn't show?


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## Pezking7p

OK, I kind of sorted it out? I think I'll attach the front and back rails to the bottom shelf with dowels or something similar, then there is a very small tenon to fit into the side rails just to keep everything flat. Thoughts?

Additionally, I need to add two vertical dividers in the center and there will be drawers in between the dividers. Is there enough beef in the top rails to support this?


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## DanKrager

Pez, in the drawing supplied I think you have plenty of beef for linens and such. The top front rail won't offer much, but the other three rails will get the job done, I think. What is the span here? It looks like a span of about 60", and a 30" wide drawer is HUGE! I'd surely consider two dividers, but YMMV. Do the math: 50lbs per drawer (for tools) and 8 drawers yields potential of 400 lbs. In that case, the span won't hold. 
DanK


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## kiyoshigawa

Does a trellis count as furniture? I feel like it should, since the only other thing I can think of with so many mortise and tenon joints is chairs and bed frames.










I've got the 8 big (3/4" wide) mortises done, now only the 36 small ones (1/2" wide) remain.



















...but before I chop the small ones, I'll need to finish the tenons for the 8 big mortises I just chopped.










Due date: September 12. Updates to follow.


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## Pezking7p

Dan, there are two dividers, there will be drawers in the center section and the outer two sections will be cabinets with a single door each.

Any recommendations for how to attach the dividers to the upper rails? To the bottom shelf (I was thinking about a tapered dovetail but maybe that's overkill)? I could dovetail the front but dado the rest.


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## jmartel

Pez, when you're talking about the rails, you're talking about the front long piece on the top, correct?

I was just reading up last night in prep for the next project and they suggested either dual/triple M&T or a Dado with a dovetail on the front portion. The latter is how Doucette & Wolfe do their cases if you watch the videos. The M&T has to be done and put together before gluing up the case, and the Dado/Dovetail can be done after. You could also just do a stopped Dado which would be fastest/easiest.

I think these nightstands will be my first jump into a) Dovetailed Drawers, b) Half-blind dovetails, c) Drawers with no drawer slides, d) Dovetailed case dividers. Ambitious for sure, but given that the wife wants a "rustic" type of theme, I think mistakes will just blend right in. So it's a good project to test on.


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## Nugs

I finished my Arts & Crafts coffee. Cherry finished with wiping varnish. My first time using drawbored mortise and tenons, it worked out great.


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## jmartel

Looks great, Nugs. Did you taper the center shelf? Looks like it gets pretty thin in the middle but thickens out at the ends. I like drawbored M&T. No need for clamps.


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## Nugs

Thanks, I did an arched bevel on the shelf to match the arched aprons and the rest of the curves. So it gives the illusion of it being thinner in the centre, but when you get down and look at it level the rest of the shelf is a consistent thickness.


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## DanKrager

That's pretty cool, Nugs. Nice trick on the shelf illusion.

DanK


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## pintodeluxe

Pez, is the lower shelf a solid panel or plywood? If it is plywood, I would just use a dado there. If it is a solid panel, you will have to allow for expansion and contraction. 
The sketch is looking good.
Here is how I handled a similar assembly… http://lumberjocks.com/pintodeluxe/blog/34981


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## byerbyer

Nice work Nugs.


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## Pezking7p

Nugs, that taper illusion is awesome. Love the appearance.

Jmart, I had been considering the half dado/half dovetail construction. I just wasn't sure about it because of how I've oriented the back rail (yes I mean the long pieces on top). I suppose since it's in the back, I can just dado the whole thing.

Pinto, I looked at that build a long time back, and have come across photos of your piece while researching mine. I need to review it again for sure. The bottom shelf is indeed solid, or at least I had planned it to be solid. I forgot I made the sides frame-and-panel. After consideration, I think it's best to make it out of plywood. Seems a shame to buy a sheet of cherry ply for a 12×44" panel.


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## pintodeluxe

Honestly, there is good reason to use plywood in that application. It will look great, and you will surely find a use for the rest of the sheet.


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## jmartel

Pez,

I think the only place you would do the dovetail portion would be the front. You could do the back side and let the pieces that run from front to back float, but I'm not sure it would be worth the effort since it won't be seen. So just a dado until the last inch or so, which is a dovetail.


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## Pezking7p

Pinto, the problem with the plywood isn't finding a use, it's finding a place to store it until I use it!

Jmart, I'll definitely only do the last inch or so, just enough to be seen, though I'm starting to reconsider even that. I may use the remainder of the plywood to make the dividers, in which case it's stopped dados all the way.


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## jmartel

Well I bought 2 nightstands this morning.










Some assembly required. 48bdft there in the pile.

Went with European Beech. Same color as the good vertical grain douglas fir, similar grain structure, but 2/3rds the price. Since it will be stained/dyed, it'll do just fine. Oddly enough, the 8/4 board on the right was less money per boardfoot than the 4/4. They only had 4/4 in S3S, and the 8/4 was rough.


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## Mean_Dean

Great looking nightstands!


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## jmartel

Here's the rendering of the nightstands and the future Bed. Probably try and start milling stock today.


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## jmartel

Finally can post this up after doing the finishing touches today. Watched the race after.


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## jmartel

Well I got the 8/4 stock mostly milled up tonight. Just need to crosscut everything to length.










And this is pretty much the extent of waste from the board I bought. Think I did a pretty good job picking a single board that had everything I would need.


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## BadJoints

Very efficient use of the board. I'm guessing that stuff is all kiln dried? Are you going to let it acclimate for a few days before working it any further?

The last time I cut boards that size, I used stuff that was KD and had been in my shop for 2+ years. Fortunately, I ran out of time and didn't get past the rough cut phase that night. When I returned to the shop a few days later, I had to cut several new pieces because the supposedly dry and acclimated wood had kinked on a couple pieces.


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## jmartel

It's almost all quartersawn or riftsawn, kiln dried, stuff. I had 1 or two bend a slight amount (maybe 1/32" over a 30" length), and that's it so far. Pretty stable.


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## JayT

Working on the console table the past couple weekends.

Cut out the arches last week. Made a pattern in posterboard so that I could get the best grain orientation.










Cut those out with a jig saw and then started with the #20 to refine the shape. There's a definite learning curve to a compass plane (bad pun) but once it starts to click, is pretty rewarding to use. I made sure to flip one of the pieces around every once in a while to ensure symmetry.



















Finished that up this morning and got mortises chopped. Finally starting to feel like I can do a decent job doing those with hand tools.










Next is tapering legs and then cutting tenons on the arches.


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## TheFridge

I hear you jt. In the beginning it took forever. Now it takes me about 15 mins a mortise. Lookin good.


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## jmartel

Looking good, Jay. My nightstands have started the mortising as well. Had to put them aside for a few days though. Can probably pick back up monday.


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## TheFridge

Nice, don't know about yall but I rather enjoy cutting joinery.


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## BigRedKnothead

Props Jay. My hand chopped mortises are still fairly crude. Maybe I should practice those like I did dovetails;-/


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## Pezking7p

Jay those mortises are pristine. Also I stole your template idea this morning to lay out parts. Very nice.


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## theoldfart

^ it's the Sunday spammer again!


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## upchuck

Jay T-
I'm stealing your poster board template idea too. When I first read about it on email I didn't understand how you could look through poster board to line up grain patterns. For smaller stuff I frequently use cut up translucent gallon milk jugs to line up the best grain pattern. But after email I always go to Lummberjocks to look at the photos and make any link connections that are mentioned. Now I understand and I'm embarrassed that I'd have never thought of it without your help. Good idea.
chuck


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## Pezking7p

In keeping with the theme of this thread lately, here are some parts I cut today for the entertainment center. This is everything for the carcass except the plywood bottom and dividers. There's drawer parts in there, too.


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## JayT

Funny part is that was the third template. I was trying different radii for the arches and the first two had too much curve and didn't fit on the board.

Thanks for the compliments on the mortises. I was pretty happy about how those turned out. You'll notice the upper ones are not in the picture-they didn't turn out near as well.

When the first one of those came out nice, it was cool. Once three of them were good, I started thinking maybe I was getting the hang of it. Then I nearly messed up the last one. One of my major downfalls in the shop-I get close to finishing a task and start to rush just a bit. Have to keep reminding myself to slow down and focus until the task is totally complete.


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## theoldfart

f Have to keep reminding myself to slow down and focus until the task is totally complete.

- JayT
[/QUOTE]
I feel the same way about my workbench build but still managed to screw up a few things.


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## BadJoints

I Have to keep reminding myself to slow down and focus until the task is totally complete.

- JayT

I prefer to rush through and be done. If I slow down, what am I going to blame my screw ups on?

Mortise's look great Jay.


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## CL810

If you slow down you won't have time to do it over.


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## theoldfart

Andy, I'm putting casket handles on mine so it can double it's usefulness. I'm NOT making another.

.


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## Pezking7p

Went to the shop tonight to clean up my parts with a hand plane. While measuring, I discovered that one edge wasn't square. A little more checking and I found that all the parts were not square on one edge and the crosscuts. Further checking…I'm not sure if the blade wasn't square (I just squared it last weekend), or if my insert was interfering. Upon further retrospection, I now realize that my new crosscut sled might not be even across the blade slot, which would make un-square crosscuts possibly. Oh My.

All that aside, what is the best recourse at this point, do you think? I have about 0.035" that I can remove before reaching final width dimensions. Should I just lightly joint any edge that's not square? Use a table saw to dust off the unsquare edges?

For the crosscuts, I made a shooting board, but I'm not sure how to dial it in to perfectly square.

Any other thoughts? I can't believe I screwed up so many parts. Thank God I left extra to plane to finished dimension.


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## jmartel

Just make it a smidge smaller. No one will know the difference. Take off as little as you need to get everything square, and just base all the rest of the stuff off of the new sized parts. No worries.


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## byerbyer

No real furniture happening for me of late so I thought I'd share a "furniture-y" thing from work. Here's a conference table we made for a local car dealership.










Here's another angle.










This was my first inlay project since taking over engineering duties at our shop last fall. All in all it turned out pretty well. I'd still rather spend my days shaving real in my garage, but it's fun to do projects like this now and then.


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## TheFridge

Need to make two 2'x2' and one 2'x4' 5/4 walnut table tops. Don't want to deal with warping. I can surface it and acclimate it inside my house for a couple weeks. Bringing it inside and out for each step shouldn't be a problem. I don't want to breadboard it but I'll do whatever I have to, to keep it flat.

So, thoughts? Recommendations? Right direction?


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## CL810

This may not fit the design but battens are an alternative to breadboards. Those are thick tops, not sure how thick the battens would need to be.


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## jmartel

Battens would work. Just make sure you elongate the outer screw holes to allow for movement.

6 mortises per leg times 8 legs = 48 mortises cut tonight. Gave my chisel and a mallet I received from the swap a workout.


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## TheFridge

Jmortiser. That's a bunch o choppin. Your forearms are probably bigger than mine now.


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## jmartel

Drilled out most of the waste, but yes. Lots of chopping.


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## BadJoints

I'm curious about the type of wood and finish applied to that table byer.


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## byerbyer

> I m curious about the type of wood and finish applied to that table byer.
> 
> - BadJoints


It's Formica plastic laminate.


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## JayT

More progress on the console table. Holes for wine storage in the arches done today and LOTS of smoothing and sanding. Both side constructions are now in clamps.


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## Buckethead

Impressive, JayT. Solid execution there.


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## CFrye

You'd said the arch was for wine bottles, it took me seeing it for the light bulb to pop on as to why the arch was so tall. Duh. 
Looks great, JayT!


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## j1212t

> Impressive, JayT. Solid execution there.
> 
> - Buckethead


Everything that needed to be said, was said here. Very nice work Jay!!


----------



## JayT

At our woodworker's guild meeting this past Wednesday, I was privileged to be able to get hands on with some woodwork that belongs here.

First was a solid purple heart coffee table with scalloped top and hand shaped cabriole legs. This was made by one of our guild members for his daughter. Grain matching was fabulous and finish was immaculate.










Then, our guest presenter showed off a bunch of boxes and these:










Adult and child-sized Maloof style rockers. He had lived in California for 30+ years and was privileged to actually visit Sam Maloof at his shop several times.

It was an excellent and inspirational meeting.


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## byerbyer

Awesome stuff, JayT. Thanks for sharing.


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## BigRedKnothead

+1 to the thanks for sharing Jay. I'd better not show my daughter the purpleheart table. She loves that wood, and I think it's u-g-l-y;-)

Still settling my new shop and home. Should be up and running in a couple more weeks. The my french cleat wall lives again….


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## DanKrager

Looking organized and as beautiful as furniture, BRK. Congratulations.

DanK


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## bearkatwood

That's a nice looking bench!
I wish I had your patience for cleaning and organizing. They say geniuses are messy, well I must be frickin' brilliant." 
Here's what my shop looks like at 4:30 this morning,
just about to start working.


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## CL810

Welcome to the party Brian! Looking forward to seeing your chairs. Red's shop does get messy we've been told, he just doesn't take pics.


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## CFrye

Looking good, Red! 
Brian, my shop more closely resembles yours, except WORSE! LOL


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## Sprung

Red, nice to see the shop getting set back up. Whereabouts in Iowa are you at now? I can't remember the name of the place right now or where exactly it is, but there's a mill down in Iowa that I'm thinking about making a lumber run to either this fall or next spring.

Brian, looks like a great shop and a great place to get work done! Looks like you get some solid work done in there and I'll be looking forward to seeing your chairs. Welcome!

I had to let my projects sit for a while due to some family health stuff. Back in the saddle now! Small bookcase for my son's room to be finished soon - after starting it two or three months ago. Standing desk for my office started. Very thankful for the local one man cabinet shop in our small town. Not only has be been giving me a ton of his very usable "scrap", but he's also encouraged me to make use of tools in his shop if I need to. Ran a few boards across his DJ-20 last week. Next week the desk's top will be going through his 36" wide belt sander. Already gave him a pen I turned to thank him for his generosity. Working on something else for him too. Seems like every other week he shows up with more "scrap" for me - most of it walnut!


----------



## Mean_Dean

> ... Seems like every other week he shows up with more "scrap" for me - most of it walnut!
> 
> - Sprung


Damn, I need to move to Iowa…........!


----------



## jmartel

You and me both. I'm sick of the prices here in Seattle.


----------



## Sprung

Prices I pay here in southwest MN - within an hour of Iowa - are a lot better than what they were when I lived in North Dakota. Since moving here, the most I've paid for walnut is $3/BF. Never could afford to buy walnut before moving to MN, not at the $9 to $10/BF that it was selling for where I could find it in ND.


----------



## kiyoshigawa

As promised, an quick update on the arch I'm building for my yard. The front and back all fit together, and I'm 1/3 of the way through the 36 mortises for the cross pieces that will connect them. I hope a garden arch counts as furniture. I guess since nobody complained last time it's fair game.










Only 24 left to go! 6 per upright.










Hopefully I'll be able to test assemble the whole thing this weekend.

Red and Brian, you guys with your nice big shops make me jealous. Oh well, mine has come a long way since being a bench and one shelf in my apartment living room. Someday I'll take over the rest of the house. For now, I guess I should be glad I've got what I do.


----------



## duckmilk

Tim, I can't speak for the rest, but I would like to see you continue it. Jice job on the joinery so far.

What wood are you using?


----------



## kiyoshigawa

Duck, it's Cypress. I got some rough 8/4 and hand jointed then machine planed it all down. It's got to be completely finished by September 12, so I'll definitely be keeping at it and hopefully have it all put together by the end of this weekend, leaving me two weeks to get it cleaned up and oiled.


----------



## byerbyer

Here's a small dresser/changing table project that I plan to start in a month or so and I'm stuck on the base/feet/whatever you want to call it…

I'm shooting for a mid-century modern look similar to this one from the interwebs except flip the color scheme:









The carcass will be pine or poplar that will be painted white (possibly slate milk paint with poly topcoat) and the drawer fronts will be walnut. I found a nice 13" wide piece of 4/4 walnut for the drawer fronts a month or so ago that should look good. I'm hoping to do as much as I can with hand tools (except for ripping and thicknessing.)

Here's what I've come up with in SU so far. 









Maybe a gentle curve on the front stretcher of the base would make it more appealing to my eye? Any suggestions or places to look for MCM furniture would be appreciated. I bought Michael Crow's book to look over this weekend too.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^I like the design as it sits Byer. Curve wouldn't hurt though.

Sprung- I live in the Boone are now.

So my "bestest' little shop elf went off to kindergarten today. That was a tough one for me. Feels like the end of an era. So, here's a tribute to the little girl who spent countless hours in her Daddy's shop, and never turned down a lumber run. I will miss her singing the Menard's jingle every time we walk in the door, and being even more critical of my mistakes than I. Don't worry, I'll leave plenty of curlies (plane shavings) on the floor for when you get home.









-








0-


----------



## Pezking7p

Mr Bearkat, I am eager to see the scooping process for your chair seats.

I love cypress.

Byer, I love the design as-is. I like the dovetails but a mitered corner would be more mcm, no? Otherwise I would love to see the dark end grain of the pins//tails exposed as in your drawing. Very cool contrast.

Red its a sad day to see them grow up like that. Your girls are a trip and I always love seeing them fooling around with you.


----------



## ToddJB

Thin finger joints would fit the era too, Byer


----------



## theoldfart

Red, even though they grow up they are still your daughter. Mine tells me about the buildings she designs so you can look forward to yours telling you about the things she's made and done. She'll use the things you taught her, not just the tool skills but also the thought process. It is incredibly rewarding.


----------



## Buckethead

Red you make-a me cry


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^What can I say Bucket? I'm passionate about my kids and I know you guys are too. It's hard not to be. You pour your heart and soul into them, try to give them better than what you got. Parenting is hands down the most challenging and rewarding journey I've embarked on.

Kev- funny you should mention your daughter designing buildings. If there's one thing our youngest was born to do! I've never seen a 5year old who hand sit/focus/design/build like she can. I can't wait to see what becomes of it.

Tim- I can remember when you first came on LJs, and your shop has come a long ways. One day you'll expand. Just takes time.

Bearkat- I too am looking forward to your contributions when you have time. You seem like a very talented fellow.


----------



## Pezking7p

Question. I want to do a ship lapped back on my entertainment center. What is a typical thickness for this? I don't have a bandsaw, how best to make the thin pieces for the shiplapping? Shoul I just cave and buy a piece of plywood?


----------



## DanKrager

Would you consider thin tongue and groove? You could even buy that…wainscot strips.

DanK


----------



## kiyoshigawa

Thanks BRK, I'll just keep at it with what I have and let the rest take care of itself in due time.

24 more mortises chopped tonight, I almost feel like I know what I'm doing when I chop them now. Average time per mortise is down to less than 5 minutes.










Next stop a whole lot of knife walls on the cross braces, followed by cutting some tenons.


----------



## Pezking7p

Tongue and groove is fine. Where do you buy tongue and groove poplar? I was hopin for that chamfered edge look but honestly I don't think it matters in this case…not sure if you'll really be able to see the backs of the cabinets or not.


----------



## CFrye

Lovely tribute, Red. sniff


----------



## Iguana

Awww, Red. They do grow.up, and it happens all too fast.


----------



## byerbyer

Great pics, Red thanks for sharing!

Thanks for the input all. I think a miter (or finger joints) would be more in tune with mcm but since it will be painted I think I'm going with dovetails for strength. Plus it will be good practice for cutting them as I've cut all of 2 or 3 ever.


----------



## dbray45

Red - remember every year - the good and the challenging. Every day opens a new door for them and watching them evolve is a wonderful thing.


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## NinjaAssassin

Red, it's hard watching them grow sometimes, isn't it? My oldest starts on Monday and your post made me all sad and stuff.


----------



## theoldfart

If you guys think your sniffling now wait till they tell you your going to be a grandfather….way better!


----------



## Hammerthumb

> If you guys think your sniffling now wait till they tell you your going to be a grandfather….way better!
> 
> - theoldfart


+10 ^


----------



## NinjaAssassin

I can wait for that. It's hard enough looking at pictures of any of my kids from when they were infants. It never fails - suddenly there's a bunch of dust in the air and it gets in both my eyes. They're only 5 and 3 but it just goes too fast.


----------



## bearkatwood

My Daughter is now 13 and I understand what you are saying. She was my shop buddy for a lot of years and out of all my kids might be the one to work with me in the future, but it just doesn't have that sweetness anymore.. Beware the teenager!


----------



## jmartel

I feel the same about my cats.

But seriously, that's something that's going to be awaiting me in a few years. No kids yet, but likely will have at least one within the next 3-4 years.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I had a feeling I wasn't the only softy;-)

Yep, she's our youngest….so for the first time in ten years they're all off to school and Heather and I are looking at each like lost puppies. We must have done something right, because she skipped all the way into the school and never looked back.

Well after I got done being sentimential, I went out to the shop and finished painting the ceiling. Then I got one of the shop lights up. Two more to go. Glad I kept these from my old shop…. and shocked the movers didn't break any of the bulbs.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, a lot to be said for an empty nest. ( all alone …...snicker…. pssst …..now?...sure)

and the guy goes to his shop…..sheesh


----------



## CL810

Lots of changes at casa de Rojo. Sounds like little ones are handling it just fine. My youngest moved to France 3 years ago and we only see her once or twice a year. Happy she is independent and self reliant but it does have a downside.


----------



## Sprung

Nice shop elf, Red! I'm sure she'll be looking forward to still being in the shop with you when she can. I like having my little guy in the shop with me and soon I'll be building him a little bench of his own.


----------



## BadJoints

My youngest turns 5 next month and will be off to school next month. It's a hard concept to deal with, but not as hard as realizing your 12 year old son will be out of the house in 6 years, and you've spent 3 of the last 6 deployed.


----------



## BadJoints

My youngest turns 5 next month and will be off to school next month. It's a hard concept to deal with, but not as hard as realizing your 12 year old son will be out of the house in 6 years, and you've spent 3 of the last 6 deployed.


----------



## JayT

More progress on the table. Trying to get it done before our WW Guild showcase on Sept 12. The base is 90% done and I can't do the last little bit until the top is ready, so pulled out the slab and started working it over.

Here's what I'm starting with.










Quick honing of the 605-1/2 and started working off the rough sawn and getting the slab mostly flat. Final jointing/flattening is being done with the 608.










Got more and more excited as the rough sawn came off and I could start to see the actual grain. Had to wipe a section down with some mineral spirits just to see.










This is going to be awesome! Hope I can do it justice.


----------



## ToddJB

That's going to be beautiful, JayT.


----------



## jmartel

Dang that's some nice figure you got, Jay.


----------



## Sprung

JayT, that's going to be a serious top! Looks like Bigleaf Maple Burl - and an exceptional piece, at that.


----------



## JayT

> Dang that s some nice figure you got, Jay.
> 
> - jmartel


Thanks, peepingj. The maple ain't bad, either 

I've never priced maple burl, so am curious what a piece like that would sell for at a hardwood dealer. It's 48in long x 18 wide at the max and almost 5/4 thick. I picked this one up at a sale where another woodworker was cleaning out a bunch of unused lumber pieces (same guy that built that purple heart table). I paid $35.


----------



## CL810

Nice slab Jay. Can't wait to see the burl with some finish on it.


----------



## Sprung

> I ve never priced maple burl, so am curious what a piece like that would sell for at a hardwood dealer. It s 48in long x 18 wide at the max and almost 5/4 thick. I picked this one up at a sale where another woodworker was cleaning out a bunch of unused lumber pieces (same guy that built that purple heart table). I paid $35.
> 
> - JayT


$35? Smoking hot deal. For comparison's sake: I have a 8"x8"x2" piece of Bigleaf Maple Burl that I paid the same $35 price for and thought I got a fair deal on it.


----------



## Sprung

Edit: double post


----------



## kiyoshigawa

JayT, that looks amazing. Your plane must be very sharp. My deadline for the arch is also the 12th, so we can work towards our goal together. Lucky for me it's been a productive weekend:



















I'm pushing the size of my shop with this one, but it's all dry-fit now.










Next stop cleaning off my pencil marks and getting ready for glueup, then a week of oil coat every other day.

Since this will end up living outside, I was thinking of using General Finishes Outdoor Oil. Anybody have any experience with this stuff? I figured I'd just do a wipe-on coat and reapply a few times.


----------



## Pezking7p

Whatever you put on it, isn't going to last long. I would choose something that looks great up front and is easy to reapply over.

JayT that slab is out of control.

Cobbled the frame of the entertainment center to gather finally. Still a lot of work to do. But most of the really tedious stuff is done.


----------



## jmartel

Looking good, guys. I'll have to put the hammer down and get working when I get home. Goal is to have my nightstands done before october.


----------



## byerbyer

That burl grain is ridiculous JayT, wow!

It was finally cool enough in the mornings this weekend to get back out to the shop and start on the missus jewelry display. She found something like this on Etsy and like any woodworker I said "I can make that way better/cheaper/etc", so 6 months later here we are. I thought it would be a good hand tool primer before starting on the dresser/changing table later this fall. Everything but thcknessing the lumber was full galoot.










The dovetails turned out a lot better than I really expected. Sunday I glued in the main divider and made a smaller rectangle to inside this with open m&t/box joints (not sure on the correct nomenclature.) The joints look good visually but the box rocks a bit on the bench and will need flushed before I can add the dadoes to attach it to the outer frame.

It'll look something like this when it's done. Slate milk paint with a white bead board back (left over from this winters bathroom reno.)










For those that are interested that's a pint of Ordinary Bitter I brewed a few months back. They're great low ABV low carbonation beers that slide right down


----------



## Pezking7p

Homebrew, eh? We're going to have to start calling you beerbeer.

Got the bottom shelf cut and fit on the entertainment center tonight. I decided to cut rabbets on the front and back rail to hold the shelf, and then I cut some tenons on the end of the shelf (can you make tenons out of plywood? I'm a plywood pioneer!). Long weekend coming up, could it be possible that I actually make drawers this weekend?


> Is it a good idea to cut my first dovetails on a fine piece of furniture? WILL I UNVEIL MY HOMEMADE DOVETAIL GUIDE


!??!

I've got to say that I finally feel that I'm able to go out to the shop, and not worry about having the right skills or tools to get something done. It just flows and I don't really feel intimidated by much anymore.


----------



## Pezking7p

Side panel sneak peak. How do you feel about the reveal aesthetically?









Planer lines show up really bad in the photo.


----------



## jmartel

Looks good to me from here, Pez.


----------



## JayT

Looks good on my screen, too.


----------



## TheFridge

I've seen better..

Kidding. Looks good. The force is strong with you.


----------



## CL810

I like it Dan!


----------



## DanKrager

Is good, Dan.

DanK


----------



## jmartel

Got one frame dry fit up. Needs the upper rails fwd and back to be added, but that's going to be 4/4 stock that I haven't milled yet. Tomorrow's project is to do that, and glue up the panels for the 2 sides on each nightstand. Then I'll get the second one dry fit, and hopefully will have a glue up on Monday.


----------



## Pezking7p

Lookin good jmart. Gotta power through the honey-do projects and get back to fun stuff. Say, is that a dowel hole I see?


----------



## jmartel

That is an "oops I effed up and drilled the wrong face for the mortise" hole. Luckily it will be filled in and hidden in the back. The M&T will be pegged, though. Upper rails will be dovetailed in along with the drawer dividers.

Think I decided to use hot hide glue on these as well. No reason either way other than I need to get used to using it more


----------



## kiyoshigawa

I've decided to move onto a new project. It's like a hallway table of sorts, but with video game controls in the top, for a rhythm game known as Beatmania IIDX. I figure you guys might have some advice for me in regards to my design, as it's basically furniture, give or take the game controls.

Here's what I have so far in my initial design concept. Please imagine the grain running the right direction. Sketchup's texture isn't cooperating at the moment:










The dimensions are a bit hard to read, but it's ~4'-4" long, ~1'-4" deep and ~7" tall. The sides are dovetailed together, and I am planning on a panel in frame for the bottom to deal with expansion.










Here's a shot with the top flipped up. I figured hinges along the back with a solid (laminated) piece on top would be fine, since it is not likely to expand along the grain direction. I figure if I don't attach it at the front or sides, then the top can move a bit without pulling anything apart. Please someone with more experience let me know if that's not going to work.

Finally, I was thinking of getting some adjustable table legs, similar to the ones below so I can adjust the height for gameplay, but I am not sure where to buy such legs. Anybody have a source for these legs or some alternate way to get adjustable table legs on here?










Thanks again for letting me pick your brains.


----------



## JayT

More progress on the console table. Base is all glued up and has finish (natural Danish oil).










Top is almost done, too. Bottom side of the top is done, just need to poly the show side and assemble. Unless something disastrous happens, I should make my Sept 12 deadline.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^I can dig it foo. Better hit Trader Joe's for local wine. Oh never mind, you live in Kansas;-)


----------



## CL810

Proportions are spot on JayT. Looks sharp.


----------



## Pezking7p

Yowzer! Dat table is hot.

Tim. Design looks fine. I would breadboard the ends so as not to see the end grain, unless you're into that sort of thing.


----------



## jmartel

Table looks good, Jay. On that front leg on the right, is that bookmatched? Looks like it with the grain on the upper part. If not, crazy how nature make dat.

Got all the 8/4 stuff fit up on the second nightstand today. Getting decently good at sawing tenons by hand now, though I'm using a 20tpi dovetail saw, so it's not super fast.










And how all the parts mate together


----------



## lateralus819

Nice work Jsellers. Those joints look great. Difficult?


----------



## jmartel

Not really difficult. Just a lot of them. I cut the outer cheeks with the Tablesaw and a FTG blade, then used a handsaw and chisel for the inner part. Figure there's 4 M&T's at each corner, and 2 each at the top. So, 48 in total.


----------



## JayT

Tables are looking good, jjoinery. Not sure I'm ready to attempt a joint like that yet. Those tenons are very clean.



> Table looks good, Jay. On that front leg on the right, is that bookmatched? Looks like it with the grain on the upper part. If not, crazy how nature make dat.
> 
> - jmartel


Yes, it's bookmatched. Since I didn't have any 8/4 walnut to make the legs, they are laminated. Worked out better in the long run, anyways, as I was able to get all the pieces for the base out of the same piece of lumber so color is dead on consistent. I had to pick and choose to make the best look and just liked the way that grain looked, so kept it as a piece of interest.


----------



## terryR

Great table, Jay. +1 to the overall proportions being pleasing!

jjoinery, that's an impressive looking joint! very clean!


----------



## jmartel

> Tables are looking good, jjoinery. Not sure I m ready to attempt a joint like that yet. Those tenons are very clean.
> 
> - JayT





> jjoinery, that s an impressive looking joint! very clean!
> 
> - terryR


Thanks guys. These are the first time I've done a joint like that. I've done double tenons once before for the base to my coat rack (in my projects), but not the corner joint. And these all fit right off the saw. Maybe need a bit more force than I had planned on to knock it all together, but that can be easily fixed up prior to glue up.

It's not really a difficult joint. Just the same as a mortise & Tenon, but doubled. Then cut it at a 45 deg angle lining up with the inside corner, shave a little square end on the tip of the 45 with a chisel for glue room, and you're done.


----------



## TheFridge

Lookin mighty fine guys

The furniture that is.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Hey guys, question for you:

I need to cut a double mortise/tenon joint with 2 tenons and 2 mortises, instead of one giant mortise and tenon. Should I drill the mortises first (as I normally do), or should I cut the tenons first, and match the mortises to fit?

Thanks!


----------



## jmartel

It's generally easier to cut mortises first and match tenons to width in my experience. But it may be like tails first vs pins first dovetails in that it's personal preference.


----------



## DLK

.


----------



## DLK

never mind.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Thanks guys for the replies!

Normally, I drill the mortise first then cut/fit the tenon. But because this is a double mortise/tenon, it seems like it'd be more accurate to cut the tenons first, then mark and drill the mortises. It seems like drilling the mortises first and trying to cut/fit the twin tenons would be a more difficult procedure.

I was curious what other's experiences were, as a second opinion. Better to ask first, than screw it up later!


----------



## Pezking7p

I think it could go either way.


----------



## jmartel

What I did was set my marking gauge to do the outside face of each tenon/mortise, and then mark all of the parts for the mortise and tenons. Then change it to the inside face and mark everything. Then you have exact locations on both parts. Drill out and chisel out mortises, then use the table saw to cut the outer faces of the tenons, and then finish up the inside by hand. Seemed to work out ok for me.


----------



## Nugs

I just finished an end table for my living room. I built it to match my stereo stand, cherry with spalted birch door panels. Next up I'm making a bookshelf.


----------



## CL810

Nice Nugs! Are you going to post as a project?


----------



## jmartel

They look great, Nugs.


----------



## JayT

Cool. Nice work, Nugs.


----------



## j1212t

Great looking stuff going on here!


----------



## byerbyer

Look great, Nugs.


----------



## JayT

Bada BOOM!


----------



## jmartel

Lookin good, Jay. Love that top.

Got the stock milled up for the sides of the nightstands tonight, and planed in a spring joint in each matching pair. Also got the stock milled for the FWD and AFT upper dividers for both nightstands. Need to cut a dovetail on one end, then cut to length and the other dovetail still. Still need to glue up the side panel pieces, but I didn't want to start a new batch of hide glue tonight by the time I was ready. That's about as far as I got as I had to fix the red motorcycle's non-starting issue (hence the jumper cables in the second photo). Gonna have to take a break from woodworking this winter and strip the thing down to the frame and rebuild as it desperately needs it. Glad I got 2 bikes now so I have one always working.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Man, it just hit me that WIA is in two weeks. Kinda bummed I can't go this year either. Oh well.

Well, if you guys remember this table I built this past winter…..finally got around to blogging it.










http://www.westfallwoodcraft.com/2015/09/reclaimed-dining-table-with-dovetailed.html


----------



## JayT

> Man, it just hit me that WIA is in two weeks. Kinda bummed I can t go this year either. Oh well.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Yeah, I'm not going either. Was out all day Saturday for our WW guild showcase, most of today for a softball tourney and will be gone Thursday through Saturday this week for work. Thought maybe I should spend at least one weekend this month with the wife. Plus, there's only one session on Saturday I really want to see. I'd find a couple others to go to, but overall, can't justify the 6 hours of driving, a $200 admission and hotel and meals for a day and a half just for that.


----------



## byerbyer

I'm not going either. I was pretty geared up to attend with it being this close to home, but literally the day I was going to book my reservation we found out we're expecting baby Byer and I couldn't justify the money this time around. Alas, maybe next year…


----------



## theoldfart

Congratulations Byer, in a few years you can take mini Byer with you to WIA!


----------



## DanKrager

Surprise! Byer, you DO know what causes that, right? Congratulations! Now it's byerbyerbyer. Hope all goes well. ...and don't bring any tools to the delivery.

DanK


----------



## byerbyer

^ Thanks guys. We're pretty excited.



> Surprise! Byer, you DO know what causes that, right?
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Funny you say that Dank, my grandfather's response was "that's what you get for messin' around."


----------



## john2005

Wow! You boys have been crankin it out lately. Been awhile since I checked in, 392 posts to be exact. Nice work on those tables JayT. Looks like that entertainment center came out real nice Jmart.

Finally getting a bunk bed underway for the boys. Building out of cherry shorts since they were cheap and on sale. Haven't made much progress yet





































Also used some walnut for a display stand for coffee scoops in a local coffee shop/art gallery. Walnut courtesy of BRK. Thanks bud!


----------



## jmartel

Gotta love figured walnut. I hoard as much as I can find. I've got a small stash of figured Claro Walnut waiting for a project. I think I have enough for a smaller bookcase.


----------



## Pezking7p

Nugs I love those night stands.

JayT that table came out amazing. That slab is out of control.

Anything special about the bunk beds John? That walnut is dark as night. How did you get it so dark?

Been out of town for a week but here are some drive by update pics of the TV stand. Something doesn't fit right on one side but it all looks pretty dang good for a first dry fit.


----------



## theoldfart

Hey Dan, I like the white board for planning. Looks like it might be a great help.

On the last pic, what makes the panel edge so dark?


----------



## Pezking7p

The white board is great. I wish it was bigger and flatter (it's warped).

The dark panel edge is actually just a reveal on the edge of the panel. im glad you said this, though, because that is the effect I was going for, though I kind of wish it was a little wider.


----------



## jmartel

What did you do for the reveal? Just cut the rabbet larger so that there's a gap all around?


----------



## Pezking7p

Yah I just made the rabbet bigger. The only difference is that I made the bottom tongue a length such that it rests on the bottom of the groove in the lower rail.


----------



## jmartel

Makes sense. I might have to steal that for my nightstands. I like the effect. Good thing I haven't rabbeted the panels yet.


----------



## Pezking7p

Anyone see the new thos moser catalogue? It's got a lot of new furniture designs. Very contemporary. I like them.


----------



## jmartel

I just put my name on the mailing list, so maybe I'll get it in soon.


----------



## john2005

> Anything special about the bunk beds John? That walnut is dark as night. How did you get it so dark?
> 
> - Pezking7p


Nothing too special. I got the plans from Red who got them from Wood mag I believe. Its fairly simple, I just wanted ones that could be turned into equal beds when not a bunk. I am using cherry instead of oak (got it cheaper) and plan on through tenons for the head board as opposed to the blind tenon with a bold in it. 
As for the walnut, here's my secret. Follow it closely or you will be lost. Get the crappiest cell phone camera you can and take you pics with that. No matter what you do, your pics will always appear over/under exposed or blurry. Guaranteed. Its actually lighter and shows the figure great. The finish is just spray laquer cause it was quick and fast. Maybe I'll try another pic with an actual camera.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Hey Guys,

Need to pick your brains for a minute:

I'm thinking of making this whisky tray and want to ask for ideas on how to drill out the shallow 5-1/8" and 3-3/4" holes (those would be some big a**ed Forstner bits!) Also, the holes are lined with felt, so how would you cut them to fit the holes perfectly? (I am thinking cutting the same sized hole in 1/4" hardboard, laying it on top of the felt, then tracing around with a sharp knife-but that could tear the felt.)









Thanks in advance!


----------



## jmartel

Dean, do you have a tailed (powered) router? You can make a easy circle jig by making an auxiliary base, and putting a nail through it so the distance from the nail tip to the outermost blade on the bit is 2 9/16" and 1 7/8" (half of the diameter) respectively. Make the nail just poke below the surface by about 1/16" so it's enough to keep the router jig in place while you spin it around, but not enough to go through the workpiece. Then when you complete the circle, you pull the jig out of the nail hole, put it so the nail is in an area you just routed out, and then hog out the waste.

For the felt, I would use scissors. If they were standard pipe dimensions, you could grind a sharp edge all around the pipe and use it as a big punch, but it's a bit off.


----------



## TheFridge

Router.


----------



## DanKrager

Dean, how is the felt kept clean? I'm not around drink trays, so I have no idea how long this would last, but if I were commissioned to build one, that is a question I would want answered. I suppose that the felt could be left loose and replaced when yucky, so I would want a quick replacement method, like the punch Jidea suggested. I've done that with pipe, but it won't hold any edge to speak of, yet you can get onsies or twosies out of it. An old hole saw with a sharp edge ground where the teeth were would be perfect because you could spin it slowly and get a perfect cut very fast. I've just finished pricing Osborne punches in those sizes and am still in sticker shock…up to $800 for a 6" one. Not gonna be a part of MY collection at those prices. I'd buy a new hole saw and modify it first!
Personally? I happen to have a template router bit that I would use to rout the pockets using a one piece template. If the felt is not used, a bowl bit would be perfect. Minimal cleanup. 
DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Dean, how is the felt kept clean? I'm not around drink trays, so I have no idea how long this would last, but if I were commissioned to build one, that is a question I would want answered. I suppose that the felt could be left loose and replaced when yucky, so I would want a quick replacement method, like the punch Jidea suggested. I've done that with pipe, but it won't hold any edge to speak of, yet you can get onsies or twosies out of it. An old hole saw with a sharp edge ground where the teeth were would be perfect because you could spin it slowly and get a perfect cut very fast. (I've recently found that a temporary spray adhesive holding the felt makes for accurate cuts.) I've just finished pricing Osborne punches in those sizes and am still in sticker shock…up to $800 for a 6" one. Not gonna be a part of MY collection at those prices. I'd buy a new hole saw and modify it first! I flunked Scissors every time I tried to take it.

Personally? I happen to have a template router bit that I would use to rout the pockets using a one piece template with five holes in it. If the felt is not used, a bowl bit would be perfect. Minimal cleanup. J's suggestion works well, too, and you aren't left with a template to store. But if there's a second one… 
DanK


----------



## jmartel

Well my "bid" to the boss for building a murphy bed with side storage cabinets was accepted. So that will start soon. I decided on a new 21 gal compressor rather than a turbine paint system since it would be more useful for other things and only marginally more expensive. I'm hoping that since it's painted I can get it done sooner than expected. I expect to use my air nailer extensively with the trim to keep the time to a minimum. Luckily there's no drawers, and the doors are full overlay rather than inset.

4 cabinets, and the center bed cabinet will be able to be taken apart. I didn't bother modeling any of the trim on the center panel, but think traditional shaker built-in look. Rather than 4 panels in the center, it will likely be 2, with trim covering up the seams.










Yet another project where I'll have to assemble everything outside or with the garage door closed because my shop isn't tall enough for it (< 8' ceilings minus the door, ductwork, and other stuff hanging down)


----------



## Pezking7p

Should be fast enough. A good cultist and an order of operations goes a long way on a project like that. What was the quote, if you don't mind my asking?


----------



## jmartel

$1500, with materials currently sitting around $600-650 (she is buying the murphy bed hardware and shipping to me). Again, lowballing for a friend. I'm mostly just concerned about getting some motorcycle parts out of it. The last entertainment center went pretty smoothly, and the stuff that took the longest won't be done on this build (gluing the trim on without using nails, inset doors, etc.). So I'm hoping it will be a quick and easy build.

For personally not enjoying working with plywood at all, I'm certainly having to work with it a lot lately.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Jrouter: The router idea sounds like the way to go. I'll have to make a circle-cutting jig, and make a few test cuts to see how it goes. My hand-held router is a full-sized one, so it might be a little unwieldy, but with the test cuts it should be OK.

Dan K: The felt shouldn't ever get wet, so I'm thinking of just spray adhering them in. The whisky glasses will normally have only 1.5 ounces, and the glasses are fairly tall, so there shouldn't be any spillage!

As for cutting the felt, I like the idea of the hole saw, but the teeth on these things seem awfully rough. What do you mean by sharpening them?

Thanks everyone for the replies!


----------



## DanKrager

Dean, I Mean, (sorry, couldn't resist) to grind the teeth completely off the hole saw and sharpen the remaining rim from the outside. Easily done with the hole saw in a drill against a spinning grinder. This will eliminate any custom sharpening on each tooth. I still think you will have to secure the felt with a temp spray. And be sure to use the slowest possible speed if you choose to spin the "cup" while cutting the felt. Otherwise, remove the spindle leaving a flat back on the cup and with a board laying on top, smack the cutter with a mallet to cut the felt disk.

Jbed, that's going to be a neat project. You should have fun with it, but don't let the lack of time consuming stuff spoil you….
DanK


----------



## ShaneA

Why does plywood get such a bad name? I mean, high quality stuff is flat, usually has attractive veneers, is dimensionally stable, speeds projects along, and usually has color consistency.

Where applicable, I am a fan. Gets you to gratification quicker with less risk a lot of times.

Poor plywood…


----------



## TheFridge

I love some quality plywood.


----------



## jmartel

I just don't like working with it. You can't plane it to any thickness you want, chews up hand tool blades, the dust is obnoxious, and it's very easy to sand through the top veneer as I found out on the last project. I prefer solid wood myself.


----------



## Pezking7p

JMurphy, is the center portion just an empty hole with plywood back? Then you basically screw in Murphy bed hardware with a false front on the bottom?


----------



## lateralus819

> Hey Guys,
> 
> Need to pick your brains for a minute:
> 
> I m thinking of making this whisky tray and want to ask for ideas on how to drill out the shallow 5-1/8" and 3-3/4" holes (those would be some big a**ed Forstner bits!) Also, the holes are lined with felt, so how would you cut them to fit the holes perfectly? (I am thinking cutting the same sized hole in 1/4" hardboard, laying it on top of the felt, then tracing around with a sharp knife-but that could tear the felt.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> - Mean_Dean


My guess by looking (could be wrong) but the top with the wholes is actually laminated to a thicker piece. Thats what I would do. Use a scroll saw to cut the wholes and glue that piece onto a backer.


----------



## jmartel

JMurphy, is the center portion just an empty hole with plywood back? Then you basically screw in Murphy bed hardware with a false front on the bottom?

- Pezking7p

Basically, but no plywood back. Just open to the back side.


----------



## Pezking7p

Wow, could build and finish in maybe 20 hrs? Maybe 16? Kreg screws for the win.


----------



## jmartel

20 hours seems optimistic still. We will see though.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Dan K: I don't have a grinder, but might be able to find somebody who does. If not, I'll just have to come up with another way!

Lateralus: I actually thought about that idea, but it may involve more steps than just using the router. Of course, it could always be a fallback position!


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## jmartel

Here's an example of what I'm going to try and get the trim on the center panel to look sort of like. Mixture of fake doors and drawers. The whole thing will be painted a chocolate brown.


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## Pezking7p

It's great because you don't even have to make fake doors. You can just glue pieces to a backer to look like doors/drawers. Actually you can use a little glue and then pin nail them. Fill the holes and ready to sand within an hour.


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## CL810

Jbodacious, I'm looking forward to following this build. We have a spare bedroom that I think a murphy's bed would be perfect for.


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## jmartel

> It s great because you don t even have to make fake doors. You can just glue pieces to a backer to look like doors/drawers. Actually you can use a little glue and then pin nail them. Fill the holes and ready to sand within an hour.
> 
> - Pezking7p


Yeah, that's the plan. Gotta decide as to whether to use 1/4 ply or solid stock on that. I don't want to be able to see the ply edges through the paint. So I'll have to do some testing once I get the materials.


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## Pezking7p

A lot of guys would do that stuff in mdf, but I don't know how they do it. I'm sure Google knows how. Personally I would probably ask my lumber dealer for some 3/8" maple or poplar, I think they'll resaw it for me somehow. Ymmv.


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## jmartel

I've got a bandsaw and a planer so I can resaw it myself. That's not a problem. But obviously it's more work.


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## Pezking7p

That's why I would pay them to do it. They have huge milling machines and can do a hundred linear feet like that in about 15 minutes. But, if you can figure out how the cabinet guys do the mdf (dank?) that would be faster and cheaper.


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## jmartel

Yeah, I'm sure I'll figure it out. My lumberyard doesn't do thin stuff. The only place to buy thin lumber that I know of is Rockler or Woodcraft, and that ain't happening.


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## jmartel

On the nightstands note, I finished dovetailing in the upper dividers tonight.


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## byerbyer

> A lot of guys would do that stuff in mdf, but I don t know how they do it. I m sure Google knows how. Personally I would probably ask my lumber dealer for some 3/8" maple or poplar, I think they ll resaw it for me somehow. Ymmv.
> 
> - Pezking7p


We've made a few painted MDF pieces in our shop, mostly for the bosses wife. We finished it with white tinted lacquer rather than white paint and pretty good results. If you want really clean results you need to seal (or size with wood glue) any cut edges on MDF. The cut edges will absorb more finish than the factory edges…


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## CB_Cohick

> On the nightstands note, I finished dovetailing in the upper dividers tonight.
> 
> - jmartel


I really enjoy seeing your work, jmart. Looking forward to pics of the murphy bed project!


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## CL810

Do you guys remember when Red use to make furniture? ;-)


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## BigRedKnothead

^Ha! I miss those days too Andy. Well, I'm happy to report that all the hand tools are sharpened. And, the last few boxes contain all the parts to the walnut dining chairs that were put on hold….


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## Pezking7p

Red that is a serious lumber rack. Shop looks better than ever. Things cooling off any at work?

I have two questions for the panel. For full dovetailed drawers, does anyone have a drawing or a good description of how to design the drawer to accept a solid wood bottom? It seems this in rare-ish in the world of online woodworking. The biggest stumbling point for me is how to insert the bottom or how to attach it.

Related question, most on my 1/2" pieces for drawer sides and backs have cupped or twisted pretty badly after milling to 1/2". If I mill new pieces to 5/8", then allow them to acclimate for a few days, then square and mill to 1/2", will this be adequate or are they bound to cup some more? Basically, am I forced to find quarter sawn stock for drawers?

Sorry for the long, involved questions.


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## johnstoneb

for drawer bottoms I generally use Baltic birch plywood. I just run a dado around the bottom up about a 1/4" to 3/8" up. On dovetails you have to stop the dado on the tail pieces so it doesn't show. I insert the bottom as I am gluing the drawer no glue on the bottom piece. I think solid wood would work the same way.

I haven't had a problem with drawer sides cupping or twisting. I usually use maple resawed and planed to 1/2" most of it is face sawn. I would try the 5/8" acclimation see what happens.


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## johnstoneb

double post


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## jmartel

> I have two questions for the panel. For full dovetailed drawers, does anyone have a drawing or a good description of how to design the drawer to accept a solid wood bottom? It seems this in rare-ish in the world of online woodworking. The biggest stumbling point for me is how to insert the bottom or how to attach it.
> 
> Related question, most on my 1/2" pieces for drawer sides and backs have cupped or twisted pretty badly after milling to 1/2". If I mill new pieces to 5/8", then allow them to acclimate for a few days, then square and mill to 1/2", will this be adequate or are they bound to cup some more? Basically, am I forced to find quarter sawn stock for drawers?
> 
> Sorry for the long, involved questions.
> 
> - Pezking7p


You put in a Dado in the 2 sides and front piece of the drawer. The rear face of the drawer is shortened. Bottom of the rear panel is even with the top of the dado on the other pieces. You slide the drawer bottom in from the back, and then put a screw through the bottom into the back, making sure to elongate the screw hole. Orient the grain so the wood moves front to back, not side to side.


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## CL810

+1 to BB ply for drawer bottom. Another alternative is to make a rabbit around the perimeter of the bottom to fit the groove and leave the bottom 1/2". Make the rabbit big enough to allow for wood movement. And the groove as well. Far simpler to use ply.

Edit: I type slow and Jdrawer gave a better answer.


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## duckmilk

^Ha! I miss those days too Andy. Well, I'm happy to report that all the hand tools are sharpened. And, the last few boxes contain all the parts to the walnut dining chairs that were put on hold….

That plan for those chairs was so long ago, I can't remember what it was going to look like ;-)
Good to see your shop taking shape.


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## DanKrager

+1 to Jdrawer. This method is traditional.

"Secondary wood" is wood that is more structural than decorative. If you mill 1/2" material from 3/4" or thicker, be sure to mill equal amounts from both faces. Milling everything from one side will almost always result in a cup, sometimes temporary. Thicknesses do not matter, they all behave similarly. QS stuff is premium and I would choose not to use it. There is a reason that secondary woods are common from generation to generation of woodworking…they are usually predictable in the long term and the old craftsmen liked that. I'm mostly familiar with poplar, especially for drawers, but many other woods make for good secondary wood applications.

If the drawer being made is very wide, like 30" or more, then a 5/8"-3/4" plywood bottom is a good idea. 30" or more without some center support is pushing luck, especially if the drawer is deep, meaning over 4". I can't verify that solid wood is better or worse than plywood for this application. The repair work I've done over the years demonstrates a severe disregard for the durable engineering of a drawer. Bottoms too thin and bag out, weak joints, bad choices for slides, etc. etc. Drawers are like vacuum cleaners…the maintenance gods ignore them. I like to design around that.

DanK


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## Pezking7p

Jmart that's exactly what I was after!

I'm trying to go for really classy stuff here, which is why I'm opting for a solid bottom. Probably a stupid place to try and get classy but that's what I'm doing, mostly so that the bottom matches the sides. Hopefully I can get the web frames in this weekend and start working on drawers next week.


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## Pezking7p

Thanks, too, dank. I'm using poplar as well. I tried to be very careful about taking equal portions from both sides because I milled quite a lot of wood off and I've been bitten in the past by taking it all from one side (usually it shows up before I'm done milling). Everything seemed good for a week or so and then they started to twist and cup. I will try again with some leftover poplar. It's not like it's expensive.


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## jmartel

Pez, you should pick up FWW's "How to Build Furniture". That's where I'm getting most of my information from. It's a really good book to keep around for reference.


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## bobasaurus

I've been trying to make my first real furniture project recently, a walnut slab table. After painstakingly jointing one face on each slab by hand, I went over to my friend's shop and used his 16-32 drum sander to thickness most of the slab surfaces, leaving a few low areas that were impossible to fully remove. I then clamped them together and setup a 2×4 guide for jointing the edge by hand with a saw and LN low angle jointer plane:










The dry fit shows a nearly seamless gap, though some low areas remain near the joining sections:










I then sanded the edges to 80 grit to remove the wire wheel grooves from removing the bark.

Next I have to work on the slabs a bit while they're still separate, then come up with a way of joining them and supporting the thin glue area.


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## ToddJB

That looks like it's going to be awesome.


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## jmartel

Looking good, Allen. Are you going to do something in the gaps or leave it open?

Some more progress on the nightstands. I expect to be gluing up the side assemblies tonight. Tomorrow will be starting the drawer dividers. Gotta start the glue pot soon. Hide glue will be used exclusively on this project.


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## Woodtwerker

I started wood working because I was getting mad about spending money on furniture that was cheap and would fall apart but would cost an arm and a leg. So I started building, I have been basically doing pine construction but would like to up my game eventually. This is my first project.


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## CL810

I would say that's a great start! And a little shop helper to boot.


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## TheFridge

Looks pretty solid. Good stuff.


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## DanKrager

Off to a running start, but if you're not a little weird, this might be a difficult bunch to hang with!

Welcome, woodtwerker. In reality there is no better bunch of people to exchange woodworking (and a few other) ideas with. Keep on sharing…

DanK


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## jmartel

Here's both dry fit earlier. Smoothing everything took longer than expected. Glue is warming up now while i eat a late dinner.


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## j1212t

I am so glad summer is over and woodworking season is in full swing. You guys are keeping up the standards as usual.


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## TheFridge

Summer is over? I wish south Louisiana would get on board with that.


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## jmartel

> Next I have to work on the slabs a bit while they re still separate, then come up with a way of joining them and supporting the thin glue area.
> 
> - bobasaurus


Just getting to this now, but here's a couple options.

http://www.leevalley.com/us/Hardware/page.aspx?p=69022&cat=3,41306,41308
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=71046&cat=2,71685

I would use one of the above to help keep the slabs together with the glue. Seems cheap enough and easy to install.


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## johnstoneb

Allen 
The glue joints would probably be strong enough. But what Jmart recommends would definitely help the peace of mind. I would use them.


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## Sunstealer73

Finished up some living room tables for my wife's cousin as a wedding gift. Really happy with the way they turned out, especially the end tables. My first time flattening a large panel with a plane too.


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## johnstoneb

That looks good.


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## Pezking7p

Woodtwerker, very nicely twerked. Welcome!

Jmart I think those are going to come together nicely. I see you copied my little reveal….are the corners eased a bit?

Allen, that slab is cool. Takes a lot of balls to join a slab that way. I think a little extra support is ok because people often use furniture as step stools or chairs.

Sunstealer, the cherry looks great, I love all the knots. Nice job.

Well, kind of a toss up in the shop this weekend. I opted to hand cut these sliding dovetails. In retrospect I'm not sure why but I don't regret doing it. Hopefully a couple shims will take care of the really bad gaps. Oddly, the very first one was the best and the last was the worst.










I also built a new taper jig and tapered one leg to make sure the taper would look good in real life. I think it's close to perfect. Almost time to start gluing.


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## jmartel

Yeah, I really liked your idea, Pez, so I stole it. I just put a tiny chamfer around the edges with a block plane. 2 quick passes.

Putting in the drawer kickers today. Going to dovetail them into the side assemblies.


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## jmartel

Here's one of 4 sides with the kickers dryfit in.










Off to dinner and then maybe get another one done tonight.


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## j1212t

Starting on a furniture project of my own again. I thin it was Jmart who was making a fancy cat litter box housing system some time ago? I am also replacing our old cat litterbox cabinet/TV stand with a new one. When I made the first one I made several mistakes, including but not limited to not coating the inside of the caibnet heavily, and with open litter boxes that means that the cabinet is getting to stink when you open the doors.

Anyhow, having learnt from all of my mistakes, i am replacing this old cabinet (Which was also my first "real furniture project")










With this piece, cat goes in from the left hanbd side, inside is a closed litter box with filters, so no stink problem should persist. Also, a ton of coats of poly will go inside just for good measure.









Cabinet will be 62"x17"x18" (LxHxD). Everything will be plywood, veneered with oak, doors and shelf will be jatoba veneered. Going to be a very interesting veneering, since I don't have a vaccuum bag, but I am confident in the end i'll pull it off somehow. PVA with a clothes iron worked previously on smaller projects, so I am thinking of that, but any other ideas will be appreciated.

Also, for the sliding doors I don't plan on hardware, has anyone done that before, which thickness and material woudl you reccomend to make the doors of? (roughly 21×16 in size)


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## DavidTTU

Some excellent looking projects. You guys keep me motivated to get in my shop.

Here is a little end table I've been working on. Came from some left over scraps from my other projects. I am working on the drawer fit. It will be the most challenging part for me I am sure. Then finish scraping and apply some finish.


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## jmartel

Jake,

My catbox project got put on hold earlier this year. It's sitting in parts off to the side. I think the next task is veneering the panels for it with the curly Walnut veneer.

In regards to your project, I haven't built anything with sliding doors, but I know when my dad built a cabinet with sliding doors for his boat, he used 1/4" (6mm) plywood. Anything larger becomes a lot heavier and harder to move. Maybe if you can find something like 9mm?

I'm not sure what you have available for glues in your country (Estonia if I remember right?) but you could look for something like Cold Press Glue or hot hide glue. For cold press glue, you want to roll on a thin even layer, use 2 cauls of 18mm ply/wood that completely cover it on each side, and clamp from the inside and work your way out. If you don't, you'll get ripples in the veneer from the glue being trapped. Hot hide glue you can use something like a crock pot or a coffee pot on a hot plate with a big bowl/mug of water, and then a smaller cup of the hide glue inside like a double boiler. Keep it at 60-70 deg C and then hammer veneer it on.


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## DanKrager

Jake, the only comment I can add to Jdoor's good advice is you will want either a slippery track on the bottom, rollers under (or in) thicker doors, or rollers at the top hanging in a track, also for thicker doors. The slippery track can take the form of a commercial product extruded for that purpose in plastic or aluminum. At the very least you will want some HDPE strips for the doors to slide upon.

Looking really good there, David. Nice project--challenging but not overwhelming!

DanK


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## jmartel

I got all 4 sides with their kickers glued up last night. Tonight I should be able to put the dadoes in for the dividers/shelf, make a couple small stopped dadoes for z-clips to hold the top on and glue the whole thing up. I don't think I'm missing anything left to do before gluing the 2 sides together. Anyone have any insight? I can't make the dividers or shelf until after glue-up I don't believe since I won't know the exact width at that spot.


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## DanKrager

Jquestion, neither of us will think of anything until after it's glued up. Rules of the game or something. Glue up one side first and see what comes to mind…

DanK


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## jmartel

Yeah, guess I'll find out tonight. I'm rushing to try and get at least everything but the drawers done this week. That would be ideal. Gotta go buy material for the murphy bed this weekend. Might take a couple days next week to do drawers if I get that far. Probably won't get to put finish on though, so that will have to wait.

I've got to glue up the frames, make the tops, make the shelf, make the dividers, make the corbels, make the backs, and make the drawers.


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## DanKrager

DON"T. RUSH. IT. I suppose it takes just about the same amount of time to do it right or do it twice, but DIRTFT is much more fun.

DanK


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## jmartel

Ok, rushing wasn't really a good word. More like working late and working every day on it. It's sort of hard to rush it when I'm focusing on using as many hand tools as possible as well.


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## Pezking7p

Rushing is always bad. Finding time after work is hard, though.


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## byerbyer

Finished up my wife's jewelry organizer and put it in it's new home a couple weekends ago…

















Cleaned out the garage and decided to sneak in a quick bench build before I start on the MCM Dresser/Changing table. Phase 1 of which, is a set of saw benches from Chris Schwarz plans. I think BRK may have made a set of these as well.










My old work bench will become a sharpening station and I'll use the storage underneath for odds and ends until I get some shelves or wall cabinets put up. I'm hoping to have them all wrapped up this weekend so I can buy the lumber for my new bench!

For those interested that's a Pliney the Elder Clone we affectionately call Wheatfield Jesus DIPA


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## j1212t

Cant bother making a blog post, so i'll bother you guys and mumble crazy stuff here. 

A lot of veneering going on, seems to work so far, I've gotten the tehnique down:

- Tape up the veneer with reguular painters tape, glue the seams, wet one side of veneer, put under weight overnight to flatten everything out
- Roll a generous amount of PVA glue on both the substrate and the veneer (substrate has been previously "toothed" with a cheap BORG saw)
- Let the PVA get tacky (5-15 minutes, whatever), put veneer on substrate, go over it with a small roller, to get everything flat, iron over the whole thing with a colthes iron (set to quite high temperature)
- Clamp and *********************************** clamp to hold everything down - cut off the excess, rinse and repeat


















(refere to aformentioned *********************************** clamping )


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## CB_Cohick

And suddenly, CB jumped into the conversation out of nowhere!

I have been lurking, you guys make some pretty cool furniture. I got a Veritas dovetail saw at Woodcraft's bag sale today thinking it would be great to be able to hand cut some dovetails. After attempt #1, let me just say I have a better understanding of why fine furniture costs a bit more than the crap that can be had from Ikea. This joint is looser than Duffy's wife after a couple shots of Hennessey! Needless to say, I am more impressed than ever with you hooligans. Carry on. I will keep practicing.


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## j1212t

> And suddenly, CB jumped into the conversation out of nowhere!
> 
> I have been lurking, you guys make some pretty cool furniture. I got a Veritas dovetail saw at Woodcraft s bag sale today thinking it would be great to be able to hand cut some dovetails. After attempt #1, let me just say I have a better understanding of why fine furniture costs a bit more than the crap that can be had from Ikea. This joint is looser than Duffy s wife after a couple shots of Hennessey! Needless to say, I am more impressed than ever with you hooligans. Carry on. I will keep practicing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - CB_Cohick


That looks very good for your first try. Way better than what i produced when I first tried it Practice is the key obviously but you are off to a running start! I cut over 15 linear feet of dovetails for my last commission and by now it ain't no big deal.

I would reccomend that you try hardwoods as well, you might have noticed that the crispest lines and sweetest dovetails are always made in hardwood. Softwoods are actually a lot harder to get these awesome dovetails.


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## jmartel

Well I picked up the plywood and wood for the murphy bed today.










Total of 11 sheets of ply and 28 bdft of beech. Maple was too expensive. Beech should paint well enough.


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## TheFridge

JBuilder.


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## Iguana

Yup, beech paints well. It is considerably cheaper than soft maple here, too, so it's become my go to for paint grade or secondary wood applications. Alder's cheaper, but usually too soft.


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## TheFridge

1 down and 20 more projects to go. Used up some rotting/wormy white oak so it didn't go to waste. Kinda threw it together to make the wife happy. And so I didn't have to keep a weathered piece of ply with a couple 2×4 legs screwed to it that was trying to pass as a free table. Also learned what happens when you finish the bottom of a top and it drips and you don't do anything about it. Oh well. Lesson learned.


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## jmartel

Yeah, I've still got some Alder, but it's way too soft for me. No better than Poplar.


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## Pezking7p

Poplar: F$%*ing up woodworking projects since 1579.

Table looks nice fridge. Love the Dutchmen in the bench, and the finish looks nice and smooth.

Progress is really slow in my entertainment center. Carcass is basically ready for glue up, though. I'm planning to dovetail drawers but I've never really cut a dovetail before. Any recommendations for how many I should practice before the real deal?


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## CB_Cohick

> Poplar: F$%*ing up woodworking projects since 1579.
> 
> Table looks nice fridge. Love the Dutchmen in the bench, and the finish looks nice and smooth.
> 
> Progress is really slow in my entertainment center. Carcass is basically ready for glue up, though. I m planning to dovetail drawers but I ve never really cut a dovetail before. Any recommendations for how many I should practice before the real deal?
> 
> - Pezking7p


I'm trying to learn this as well. Practicing on pine with the hope that hardwood will be easier once I get the hang of it. I have been doing one a day for the past 4 days. Based on preliminary results my guess is that I will need to complete 4,968 more before I'm ready for the real deal. I hope your road is less curvy, lol.


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## kiyoshigawa

One of the things that helped me with learning dovetails was making a tiny square that could fit into the spots to make sure nothing was crooked. Then I just cleaned it up till everything was square, and things didn't have giant gaps, or try to split anymore. Just a block of wood, some sheet aluminum and epoxy. Glued it when it was clamped to a 1-2-3 block, and it's been very helpful ever since.










Once I made the tiny square (and a fair bit of practice) I went from these…










...to these:










It also helped that I had a real bench and vise on the latter set, but mostly it was just a bit of patience, practice, and the tiny square to get everything to line up. Good luck!


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## CB_Cohick

> It also helped that I had a real bench and vise on the latter set, but mostly it was just a bit of patience, practice, and the tiny square to get everything to line up. Good luck!
> 
> - Tim Anderson


I have been looking at videos for Moxon vice builds the past few days. I can see how that would be a big help.


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## jmartel

Pez, you could always buy/make a magnetic Dovetail Guide from David Barron. I bought one after Red recommended it and it helped me a lot. It's not a cure-all, but it definitely makes things easier. I used that for doing the dovetailed upper rails and kickers on the nightstands. Works great. Not cheap with postage from the UK, though.

I've done a few practice dovetail joints with it as you would for drawers, and it worked well for that too.


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## Pezking7p

Thanks for the advice so far, guys.

Jguide, I built a dovetail guide a few weeks back, just haven't installed magnets yet. I used it on my sliding dovetails and it seems to work very well. My trimming and marking skills need MUCH improvement, though, based on that exercise. When you're trying to get air tight joints, a marking knife can really take out a lot of good wood, you know it? Especially when you're marking the second board and you're marking on the keep side. I think I might use a pencil for my first few tries. A few beers and some reggae on an evening is my plan. Try to get 2-3 done in a night.


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## DavidTTU

I spent the weekend making a new screen door. The door that was there when I bought the house had warped so badly that it could no longer shut. I priced a new screen door at Home Depot. They wanted $60 bucks for a finger jointed pine door which was the same door that I was replacing. Figured I could make something better. Went with Red Oak as I had a couple of boards given to me by a friend. Finished it with some Poly. 
Hung it by myself, it could have been done better, but it works like a dream right now. Time to enjoy the Fall.





































How about that Super Blood Moon last night? Incredible.


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## CL810

Very nice David! What an upgrade over stock doors.


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## jmartel

Pez, I use a knife. But you can't push too hard or else you'll get wide lines. An exacto knife works better for this purpose than a large marking knife.


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## Pezking7p

That's some good looking red oak!

Jmart, I use the stanley flip out marking knife like Paul sellers, but it tends to bruise even if you're careful. Maybe it needs sharpening.


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## jmartel

For veneer work and fine marking, I prefer x-acto knifes. I have been considering getting some scalpel blades and a holder, actually for finer marks and sharper blades.


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## Buckethead

> Some excellent looking projects. You guys keep me motivated to get in my shop.
> 
> Here is a little end table I ve been working on. Came from some left over scraps from my other projects. I am working on the drawer fit. It will be the most challenging part for me I am sure. Then finish scraping and apply some finish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - DavidTTU


Nice looking table, David. Looking forward to the completion pics!


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## DanKrager

Jknife, you work around scalpels more than I did, but all the scalpels I encountered have a super narrow blade, which is good, a very sharp edge, which is good, but they had a stiffening ridge down the back edge of the blade rendering them unsuitable for marking.

I ground a sharp V point (beveled on each side of the V) on the end of an old planer blade (after grinding off the bevel along one edge) and use that for a marking knife. There is no handle to get in the way and it lays flat against any surface it travels along without digging in or wandering off. It is stiff and does not bend. I use a plastic tube cap to protect the point. Wouldn't trade it for any other marking knife.

DanK


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## jmartel

I've never handled a scalpel before. Just heard they were cheap and super sharp. I think you're thinking of someone else who's in nursing/medical school right now. I mostly play with rusty fishing boats.

Got 3 sheets of plywood broken down into pieces for the side cabinets tonight. Man the track saw makes things so much easier with plywood. I wouldn't have bought it without a job paying for it, but I'm glad I decided to at the last minute on the last cabinets.


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## DanKrager

Yep. My bad, Jnotdoctorwannabe. 12 hours in a grain truck sort of scrambled recollections. Much needed rain today, so getting shop time!
DanK


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## DavidTTU

Here is the completed end table. Well except for a drawer pull. I dont know why but I consistently wait months to finally add my drawer pulls.

I had some real issues with the drawer. Made some bonehead mistakes, but recovered from them as best I could. I included a picture of the drawer guts. It is hard to see whats going on there but you might be able to make out my fix.


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## Mean_Dean

Looks great, David! Definitely post that as a Project.


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## dbray45

Good job on the table. You may want to fill the knot in the back leg with a wood patch, if you match it up carefully, you will never notice it.

Projects like these are great, you make mistakes, you fix them, you learn to fix some of the imperfections and keep some others, the skills you gain are substantial.


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## jmartel

I'd personally just tape off one side of it and fill it with epoxy just to keep it from spreading. But otherwise, leave it as is.

Hopefully will be able to get 2 of the 4 side cabinets glued up tonight for the Murphy Bed. Have to cut the joinery, but everything was cut to size last night.


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## jmartel

Didn't get any glued up, but all the joints are cut for the side cabinets. Dry fit one side together. This is the bad thing about having a shop with < 8' ceilings.










The joints are nice and tight. The small gaps close up with clamps.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Look'n good, Jcabinet!


----------



## Pezking7p

Go go gadget jmurphy!

Dry fit the entertainment center together, finally. Learned a lot so far. Time to make doors and drawers. I think the door design is going to be the key to this piece because so far the details aren't really jumping out very much. Maybe that's a good thing. Thoughts/criticisms appreciated.


----------



## CL810

Nice work Dan. Really good job on the thru tenons!


----------



## Mean_Dean

Dan,

I'm thinking of a frame and panel design with G&G cloud lifts on the upper outside corners of the doors, with glass panels. I did something similar, and used a "rainfall" patterned glass that looks kinda cool! (Since it never rains in Oregon anymore, I have to look at glass panels….....!)


----------



## Pezking7p

Thanks, guys. I hadn't considered a cloudlift on the frame, Dean. I'm going to have to sketch out a few more things and that will definitely be on the list.

Working on dovetails today. I tried a marking technique that I saw rob cosman use. He cuts the kerfs for the dovetails first, then, with the waste still in, he sets the tails board on top of the pins board and places his saw blade in the kerfs and uses it to mark the pins. He offsets the boards by the width of the saw kerf so that the pins end up exactly the right size. I think I didn't get my offset right because the pins are looser than loose. They center up pretty nice, just loose. I also removed the waste with only a chisel, which takes a long time. I'm on my way to find a fret saw now.










Also, homemade DT guide.


----------



## Pezking7p

Rob Cosman Video:


----------



## DLK

Thanks for the video.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> Rob Cosman Video:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Pezking7p


Thanks for posting, awesome techniques!


----------



## DLK

So Dan I gave it a quick try. Yours came out much better than mine.

Whats the best wood to practice dovetails on?


----------



## Pezking7p

Dovetail #2.

If you want to make nice tight dovetails without a ton of practice, use a saw guide, and use the technique that rob cosman shows in the video above. Just make sure you check and double check the spacing of your saw kerf offset. I'm super excited and ready to make some drawers.

Cheers.


----------



## Pezking7p

Don K. I really don't know what's good to practice on. I've heard that hardwood is easier than softwood. I'm using poplar.

To be honest, the dovetail in the first picture was terrible. It wouldn't even support itself because it was so loose. As I said above, I found that the key for me was to make double sure that my saw kerf offset was perfect. I actually used a round-style marking gauge and set it to the thickness of my saw. I think that a saw guide is also crucial. I made one in about an hour out of some scraps and a few magnets.


----------



## WhoMe

Oh pshaw, I could cut dovetails like that with my eyes closed. Yep, in my dreams….
Thanks Dan for posting that Cosman link. Quite impressive on the talent and tools. Now if I even had 1% of it, I think I would be a happy camper.


----------



## dbray45

Dan - looking good, the dovetails are getting much better. Many ways to do them, so it boils down to what works for you. Once you get them nice and clean, then you can experiment on ways to do them faster.


----------



## byerbyer

> Rob Cosman Video:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Pezking7p


Thanks for the link Pez that's a nifty trick.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Late to the party. Bit of a rough patch around here….my son was in the hospital and stuff. Everybody's doing better now.

Anyway, the Cosman trick is pretty slick. Barron does something similar in this vid:






I asked him about that method at Handworks, and David noted it was a preferred method for some, but not the one he uses.

Pezzer, glad to see your success. At some point we all have to decide whether we're going to be a purist….or just find a method that gets results. Better yet, a method we enjoy. Which is why we're doing this in the first place.

Now, I gotsta try it. Nice work to the new posters. I've got this weekend off and I fully intend on some shop time.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, I hope lil' Red is ok. So hang in there, glad to have you back buddy.


----------



## CL810

Glad to hear your son is better. Wondered what was keeping you away.

+1 to finding what works for you on your path.


----------



## Pezking7p

Glad to hear from you, Red, and glad everything is ok.

I view the dovetail guide as a jig. And, as others have said, after only a handful of dovetails, I find my hand naturally falls to the angle I need without the guide. So it's a trainer, as well. I saw David Barron's technique, I like his setup better but I haven't made a dovetail board yet and I don't have a kerf maker. Also I like that the saw is exactly the right kerf size.

So I made my pins too small for my 1/4" chisel. Had to buy a new fangled 1/8" stanley 750. Hopefully it works ok. I would prefer a 3/16" but none were available any time soon. Do I need a dovetail chisel or will a normal chisel work as long as the sides are narrow? Any recommendations?


----------



## johnstoneb

Pez
A normal chisel will work as long as it has enough taper on the sides that it doesn't wedge in the joint.


----------



## jmartel

I've got the same chisel, Pez. I like it well enough, though I've found the handle likes to come out of the socket, occasionally.


----------



## j1212t

Regular chisels have always worked for me. Specialty DT chisels for me only come in handy when doing half blinds and then I also prefer a fishtail as opposed to a left and right skew one.

My Cat litter box, mid century modern Credenza is moving along nicely. Doors have been veneered, casework is together, only thing to do is the legs, one shelf which needs to be veneered, then veneer the top and bottom of the cabine, finish coat the back and throw it on, attach doors and legs, test cabinet finish, apply cabinet finish with rigourous sanding….

So actually quite some stuff yet to come, but it always feels like the finish line for me once the case is together.

This is the case glued up, with middle diveder being glued.


----------



## pintodeluxe

Dan, the entertainment center is coming along great. I say keep the doors and drawers simple in appearance, and let the tapered legs and a wide overhanging top do the talking. I have always dreamt of making through tenons so long you could trip over them, so the subtle exaggeration you employed there really works for me.

Keep up the good work.


----------



## bobasaurus

Fridge, what finish did you use on that oak table? Looks incredible.

Finished turquoise inlay and rough sanding on my table today:










Sanded to 60 grit and a quick alcohol wipe to see how it looks. I'll keep sanding the beast. Too bad I wasn't able to fully smooth plane it… nothing cut this crazy walnut without tearout, even my LN No 4 with 50 deg frog.

Tired of CA glue fumes in my eyes, it burns. Need better ventilation next time.


----------



## dbray45

I was thinking that one of the things I have not done was a claw and ball foot. I have read a bunch on them and have watched several videos but never sat down and tried one. One of the things that I have noticed is that all of the ones that I see are made of mahogany. I tried mine in cherry but a smaller version (it was a piece in the bin) and have not sanded it. It is also my first try at carving.



















I have a long way to go to refine this but it is a good starting point, some proportions are wrong. Next time, I think I will start with a square piece of wood.


----------



## Brit

My virus protection flagged the link in cutiepie's post as potentially harmful. If I was you, I wouldn't go there. I have flagged it as spam.


----------



## theoldfart

Good heads up Andy, thanks.


----------



## jmartel

Started getting the trim put onto the side cabinets for the murphy bed tonight. Should be making doors on Saturday. Then it's onto the center main cabinet. Should go quickly though since nothing needs joined together. Just screwed together.


----------



## derekcohen

The latest episode of my Lingerie Chest is on my website:










http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/LingerieChestMorticeTenons.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## Pezking7p

I think the claw feet look great. A little more time cleaning them up and they would look professional. How many different tools did you need to make them? Specific sizes would be nice because I always wonder what you really need to do basic carving. Everyone on YouTube has a thousand different gouges and chisels and stuff.

Derek, the subtle curve in the side panels creates a very elegant feel to that case. Puts me in mind of the furniture in beauty and the beast.

Can you describe how you line all the dados up on your side panels? The web frames on my case did not fare so well and I'm open to ideas.


----------



## derekcohen

Can you describe how you line all the dados up on your side panels? The web frames on my case did not fare so well and I'm open to ideas.

Hi Dan

The curved sides, along with a frame-and-panel construction called for something different. I came up with an idea that worked very well.

Very simply, the lighter panel (I call it a "fillet") in the picture is place against the rear leg. This is done on each side.










The webs are held on with sliding dovetails at each end, and the position for these is marked out across the leg and fillet ..



















This is continued all the way at the back of the chest ..










Once done, the rear fillets are completed with sliding dovetails and matching blades ..










The fillets can now be ripped in two, and one side goes to the front and the other to the rear ..










The front fillet can then be lengthened and extended into the front legs ..










All this is detailed on my website. Scan down this index page to "Lingerie Chest" for the entire build, step-by-step: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/index.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## JackDuren

Nice piece. I did a similar design in I think 2005. Everything is dovetailed.


----------



## derekcohen

Hi Jack

That looks really good work. The construction is similar, but where we differ is that the front drawer blades are (sliding) dovetailed from the inside of the cabinet. It was this design factor (to keep the exterior "clean") and the side curves, that was the challenge. Curves really ramp the level of difficulty way up.

I'd love to see how your piece turned out. I assume that your drawers will have straight fronts. Mine will be bowed.

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## JackDuren

Drawers slide on wooden slates with dados in the drawers.


----------



## DanKrager

Jack, that is a great looking chest.

I've a question. With drawers that large do you think more than one "runner" on drawer side could be helpful? It seems like large and heavy would put a LOT of pressure on the top of the "runner" causing wear really fast. I've never seen it done. Just wondering if you thought about it?

DanK


----------



## JackDuren

It's at least 10yrs old now. Originally I put Johnson's paste wax on. Then reapplied the next year. Haven't reapplied it since. Have never had a problem. I use it everyday…


----------



## JackDuren

I found these while looking for old refacing pictures on the computer. Might help explain.


----------



## Buckethead

Wow, fellas. Some fantastic pieces. Great photos of great work! Thanks!


----------



## groyuti

[No message]


----------



## DLK

So when it says: "Spammer in the process of being removed" Did the spammer write that or did the moderators?


----------



## CFrye

Moderators. Cricket is on the job!


----------



## JayT

^Yep. Lets us know they've got the account stopped and will clean up the mess by removing posts when the site is not as busy.


----------



## DLK

I was just imagining a very cleaver spammer could do this. Paranoia has done me in, lol.


----------



## CFrye

Hacker, maybe. I don't think spammers are that smart. I could be wrong…


----------



## DanKrager

So do the admins want us to not flag the spam so marked?

DanK


----------



## TheFridge

I'd venture to say yes


----------



## DLK

Certainly the spammers don't want you to flag it.


----------



## dbray45

John - Being in Toronto, you have some seriously nice hardwoods up there. Now is the time to make some nice pieces and sell them. Show them how to do it.


----------



## dbray45

I guess John went away


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

Here is an old tool chest top I am refinishing. It has sliding tapered dovetailed splines for stiffening, and as I looked further to see if the recess were cut by hand I found traces of dado groves and it looked as



























though the bevels were done with a dovetail bit. I'm thinking the date was pre WW 2 and it has the old Military green faded paint.


----------



## bobasaurus

Did my first ever butterfly key inlays on the table this weekend, turned out great after some practice:




























I made the plexiglass template as well (more work than the rest combined).


----------



## lateralus819

Nice job Allen. At least with jigs, if they're build solidly (Like it is), It should last a long time. You'll get much use out of it.


----------



## bobasaurus

Thanks Lat. The top will be ready for finishing after I break the edges. Waiting on some 8/4 walnut I ordered for the base. Hopefully I can keep using my plexi jig on future slabs, but I'm in no hurry to make any more after sinking so much time and effort into this beast.


----------



## CFrye

Turtle, were the splines glued? 
Allen, that top is looking great! Noob question: do you use the template to make the bow ties?


----------



## bobasaurus

Candy, you use the same template to make both parts of the butterfly key inlay… the hole and the plug. The bushing comes with a removable collar for doing one or the other. I have this kit:

http://www.amazon.com/Whiteside-Router-Bits-9500-Solid/dp/B0012JI6HM


----------



## bobasaurus

Oops, here is a correct-orientation pic of the top… stupid phone:


----------



## Mean_Dean

Allen, that slab is beautiful, and those bowties are first-rate!


----------



## bobasaurus

Thanks Dean. I was impressed how well the inlay kit worked once the base is centered correctly (had to modify my porter cable base a bit, as flat-top screws don't allow much movement). Can't wait to get some finish on there… might start tonight.


----------



## jmartel

Looks good, Allen. Now you're ready to move up to more decorative butterflies.










I used a pair of these on my blanket chest that I built last year.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Berry Nice Allen.










Finished blogging the reclaimed dining table I made earlier this year:

http://www.westfallwoodcraft.com/2015/10/reclaimed-dining-table-with-dovetailed.html


----------



## bobasaurus

Red, that is a huge table. What does that puppy weigh?

J, your butterfly is very impressive. Did you also use a router template, or is it fully by hand?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Allen, it's actually not too bad. It's all really dry softwoods.

A hardwood table like that would weigh as much as….well, as my patio table. Lawl.










The movers really grumbled about that one. White oak and ipe.


----------



## TheTurtleCarpenter

@ Candy, no they were not glued


----------



## CFrye

Thanks for the info, Turtle and Allen. 
Red, are you missing a few chairs? Great tables!


----------



## jmartel

> J, your butterfly is very impressive. Did you also use a router template, or is it fully by hand?
> 
> - bobasaurus


The photo I put up isn't of mine, but you can see mine if you look through my projects for the blanket chest.

I don't use router templates. Cut the piece to inlay, trace around it with a knife, rout out by hand and clean up with a chisel. Pound in with a mallet and call it good.


----------



## Iguana

Last week, finished a dresser for one of my daughters.



A year behind schedule, but she's not a paying client 

I normally don't like to do painted pieces, but I think it works really well on this piece. The relative simplicity of the design would be hidden behind exposed wood grain. At the beginning, I tried to convince her that walnut would be a better choice, but she insisted - quite correctly - on white.

I didn't take any build pics, as the construction is pretty straightforward. There is a full SketchUp model in the warehouse (link is in the project post). Also produced build drawings in LayOut, link the the PDF also in the project post.


----------



## Midway

Your post is awsome i love to see young men doing wood work with such fine quality.
I love wood with defects,knots and cracks it gives character. ( no spell chick)

I went to a friends shop (becaise he was bragging about all of his equiomment) well he had a lot of 
equipment but i could not find a projects that he had made, after asking several questions it was very
clear that he didn't even know how to make a square block.

The best way to learn is by doing and learning by your mistakes.
I design my project in my head then go to shop, select some boards and start building.
See my projects MIDWAY


----------



## ste6168

Just a simple table I built. Like my last one piece I posted, it is still lightyears behind most (if not all) of the work in this thread, but I am VERY happy with the outcome. This was my first attempt as M&T joinery, and certainly not the last. Hope you enjoy.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Mark, the dresser looks great! I normally don't like painted wood either, but this is an exception.

Ste6168, your table looks very nice! Keep using those mortise/tenon joints-you'll find them a staple in woodworking!


----------



## jmartel

Haven't put anything up in a while, but I got the doors glued up.










And a mockup on the front of one of the cabinets.










Needs to be flattened and sanded, and then hinge pockets drilled out. Next up is trim on the cabinets. Then making the center cabinet.


----------



## DanKrager

Jcabinet, you're makin' it look good and easy! Fun to see it come together.

DanK


----------



## Waldo88

Been a long time since I posted anything here.

Currenty working on a walnut credenza/tv stand for the living room.









I've got a little gluing to do, then I'm going to work on the face frame/edge banding (technically edge banding, but the size of a frame, which I'm making from 4/4 walnut), and the base. Both are going to get a heavy dose of rounding/smoothing with my spokeshave and angle grinder. The left opening is going to be some drawers.

Here's the last project I finished, a C table for our living room, from walnut and baltic birch. Eventually I'll get around to posting something about this in the projects section along a few other things I built.


----------



## jmartel

The more I do this woodworking thing, the easier it gets it seems. Always nice when that happens.


----------



## DanKrager

Welcome back, Waldo. Striking table there! 
DanK


----------



## Mean_Dean

Looking good, Jcabinet!

Waldo, that C-table looks great-definitely post it as a project!


----------



## j1212t

That is a very nicecabinet indeed Waldo! How hilarious is it that we are building basically the same thing? That first image is exactly what I drew up, only I put the doors on the other side. 









I also had to revise my design, will have hinged doors, instead of sliding - I underestimated how much space the sliding mecchanism takes, only about 1/2 inch, but enough to put everything off. 

Anyhow, My case is glued up, also used my grandfathers metal shop and metal lathe to make the legs. 









Will post some more pics once I get working on it again, some new stuff got put in the que in front of the cabinet unfortunately.


----------



## Waldo88

Ha, my drawing has the drawers on the other side too, my wife wanted it switched.

She specifically did not want hinged doors; our current TV stand has a broken door as kiddo decided to take a ride on it and the door couldn't take it. Also she makes the valid point that hinged doors tend to be left open a lot by the kids and are a nuisance when they are.

Given our TV room doubles as a playroom for the kids (another is due shortly), it has to be a very kid friendly design. Strong enough to take a beating, and no sharp edges to hurt new walkers (if you look closely at the pic, all of the corners are solid walnut so I could round them). The main point of it, aside from its use as a TV holder, is to stash all the kids toys away so it can at least clean up to a respectable space.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

ste6168- Fine looking table and joinery there. Fast forward a couple years and you'll have furniture for you whole house made

Waldo- Nice to see you around a again. Fine work, enjoyed your website too.

Atta Boy Jake. All except for spying on Waldo and copying his work. lawl.

Well, you know I've been busy if I actually bought some furniture. We needed some stools in short order. I bought these from an Amish furniture place in the area. I would starve selling stools as cheaply as they do, but I'm sure they have an expedited process.

They're decently built, but I'm still not crazy about them. Woodworking has a way of turning us into furniture snobs. A little more effort could have made these stools much more pleasing to the eye. For, example, this seat would have been much nicer if they'd made any attempt to match the grain. 









Oh well, learn from the good and the bad.


----------



## CL810

Just spent this past week at Marc Adams School of Woodworking and realized we did not have Michael Fortune in our list of furniture makers. Bad oversight by me as I've known him for several years from MASW.

http://www.michaelfortune.com/home.html

Michael writes a lot for FWW so you may be familiar with him.

Another instructor there this week was Paul Schurch. He was teaching another class but we saw slides of his work and it is incredible.

http://schurchwoodwork.com


----------



## rad457

*They're decently built, but I'm still not crazy about them. Woodworking has a way of turning us into furniture snobs. A little more effort could have made these stools much more pleasing to the eye. For, example, this seat would have been much nicer if they'd made any attempt to match the grain.*

Yup! I was so sad to see how they built our kitchen cabinets, almost like they tried to mismatch the grain on some panels!


----------



## summerfi

I'm finally getting back to working on my fancy saw till. All that's left now is finishing up the leaded glass for two doors. Here's a couple teaser pics.


----------



## Brit

Lovely work Bob. I can't wait to see all of the finished project


----------



## johnstoneb

Here is a preview of My rollaway tool chest that goes with the upper box I made this spring. I still need to get the ring pulls and install them.
This is the best build I have made to date. The carcase is hand chopped dovetails and mortise and tenons. Really happy with the fit. I guess the more of those things you cut the better they get. The drawers are all machine cut half blind and through dovetails. I only had to recut one drawer side I was really happy with that.
The carcase is red oak and the drawers are bubinga and maple with baltic birch bottoms. The drawers I cut slightly oversize then once the joinery was completed I fit them by hand. Finished it with one coat of amber shellac on the oak and then clear shellac on everything.
I'll post this as a project once I get the pulls in and installed.


----------



## DanKrager

Bruce, that is a phenomenal tool chest. It is furniture, but it also qualifies for a post in the "Tool Chest of your Dreams" forum. I normally don't care for shiny, but this is STRIKING!
It is on my bucket list to do something similar but I've been concerned about the empty weight. Do you have any idea how much this weighs empty?

DanK


----------



## CL810

Beautiful Bruce!


----------



## bobasaurus

That is an excellent tool chest, well done.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Awesome tool chest! Too nice for the shop ;-) I can smell a top 3 in the works.


----------



## johnstoneb

It is probably 80 lbs or so with the drawers out I can lift it up on bench without any problems. The drawers are 1/2" maple with 5/8 bubinga fronts. Once I get the pulls on it I will put it on the tool chest forum along with the project page.


----------



## Pezking7p

Whew that's nice! I can't believe how shiny that shellac is.

Finished fitting all the dovetails on my drawers today. Took me 4 hours to mark, cut, and fit the half blinds on my 8" drawer front, including cutting the tails on the tail board. Is this a typical timeframe?thats like two hours for a complete dovetail joint. Feels like a long time. Drawer bottoms and fitting the drawers tomorrow.

Still haven't found a router table on Craigslist aside from the skil/craftsman/task force style which I won't bother with. Looks like I'll be rebuilding my router table insert.


----------



## jmartel

Anyone see the new Fine Woodworking mag in the reader's projects section? Hot damn this sideboard looks good.


----------



## Pezking7p

Daammnnnn Gina! I like that a lot. I always forget I have FWW online.


----------



## DanKrager

My mag hasn't come yet, but yes, that is one fine sideboard! Wouldn't that be a fine commission, Jbuilder?

Pez, fellow LJ Mark Sternberg has designed a router table and sells the plans. SIL built one and LOVES it. Much more useful and flexible than the run of the mill stuff, and you can modify it any way you like. Compact enough to store away and quick to drag out. Like any of them, it's handy to have an extra base already secured in place, but this one is so reachable that affixing the router is trivial. Just a thought.

DanK


----------



## Pezking7p

Thanks, dan. I'll check it out but I was partly trying to save time. On the other hand, I don't want gappy doors, which I know my current setup will give me so I have to do something.


----------



## jmartel

Looks good, Pez. Those are some large dovetails. Poplar for secondary wood?


----------



## Pezking7p

Is there a rule for size? I'd say they are about 1.75" wide.

Aye poplar. I'm finding that I don't really like the really white stuff. It's very light and almost punky…tears bad and doesn't sant well. I'm not sure if it's more to do with color or weight but I'm starting to understand why cabinet guys use maple over poplar.


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, I'm not a fan of Poplar. Don't like working with it, way too soft, and I don't like the look.

And sizing I have no idea on. Just thought they looked larger than what I've normally seen. Doubt it would ever be an issue.


----------



## Nugs

> Anyone see the new Fine Woodworking mag in the reader s projects section? Hot damn this sideboard looks good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - jmartel


I agree, it looks awesome. I also really like the lamp below that sideboard.


----------



## Nugs

I finished a bookshelf for my living room, it's made up of cherry with walnut tusks. No glue on the joinery so I can knock the tusks out to disassemble it if required.


----------



## DavidTTU

Nugs that case is brilliant. Well done.


----------



## johnstoneb

Nice looking bookcase. Brilliant idea to make it knockdown.


----------



## ToddJB

I really like that design, Nugs. Great job. Does it have much side to side sway without a back?


----------



## byerbyer

Very cool, Nugs


----------



## Nugs

Thanks everyone.



> I really like that design, Nugs. Great job. Does it have much side to side sway without a back?
> 
> - ToddJB


There's pretty much zero side to side movement, it's pretty rock solid. All the through tenons are haunched and have a shoulder to provide rigidity. It barely moved without the tusks, but once they were wedged in it solidified the assembly.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Berry nice. I made a smaller knock-down a few years back. Stickley style. I've never knocked it down….even when we moved.

But you can imagine what it'd be like if I did!;-)


----------



## mochoa

Nice Nugs!

I like the combo of cherry and walnut.


----------



## summerfi

I thought I posted this earlier, but I must have forgot to hit the "send" button. Anyway, my saw till is finished and you can read my project writeup here.


----------



## jmartel

I think that's the nicest saw till I've ever seen.


----------



## johnstoneb

That is one beautiful saw till. That will make going to the shop a pleasure every day.


----------



## Iguana

Nicely done, Nugs. Are you going to post that as a project?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

For the first time since probably June, I spent my entire day off working in my shop….. and listening to David Ramirez. It was glorious.


----------



## Graft21

I was wondering if anyone could offer some advice on a time out chair that I'm building for my daughter. I am looking for advice on how to attach the slats for the seat to to chair frame without using screws if possible. I have attached a few pictures below. I would think that simply gluing them wouldn't be sufficient. The slats are only 1/2 inch or so so I don't think it's best to screw them in from the bottom. As of now, my plan is to screw them in and plug the holes. Any advice is appreciated. I need to finish this ASAP. My daughter has a serious case of the terrible two's!


----------



## Mean_Dean

Given this design, you don't have a lot of options. I think you'll have to screw them down from the top, then plug the holes.


----------



## fatandy2003

Bob,

That is 1 AMAZING saw till!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Graft21- You could plug the screw holes form the top. Or, find a decent looking screw head that you don't mind looking at. Those antique looking kreg screws aren't bad.

Or, you could add a cleat on the inside of you chair rails and screw from the bottom. Like a guy did on this table:


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## DLK

Or you could use a dowel wedge joint.


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## Iguana

Red - chairs in progress?

Is that the walnut I saw n your shop in May?


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## BigRedKnothead

Yessir Mark. That's the 5/4 walnut set aside for the chair seats. Took me longer than I thought to get the new house settled. Then we had a rough patch with my son's health.

Just this past week I'm picking up on where I left off in June. I finished smoothing and routing small roundovers on all the chair parts. Now I'm dry fitting and testing all the joiner. It's going very well. This is some of the best joinery I have done to date.



















It seems I do better work when I'm being paid for it. That is, I know the imperfections I can tolerate, but I worry that my clients could be even more particular than I am…..and not like my work. This hasn't happened yet, but I suppose it could.


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## Sprung

Some solid work going on in here!

Bob, there are no words for that saw till - just awesome!

Red, good to see you back in the saddle and in the shop.

My shop's a disaster right now. Looks like a few bombs went off in there. Hoping to get the shop cleaned up this week. Going to be working well into the cold of winter to get some of these projects done. At the rate I'm going, I might actually finish my first furniture project in 2 years before this year ends. Really need to figure out some heat for the shop…


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## johnstoneb

Red
Glad to see you're back in the shop. In addition to being pickier when doing it for some one else, experience also come into play.


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## jmartel

Good to see you back again, Red. Hope everything is good with your son now.


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## Pezking7p

Nugs I love that bookshelf.

Reds back!

Bob, I love the till but the leaded glass seals the deal. When you first started this I tried to look up how to do leaded glass myself but I gave up. Wish I could put some leaded glass in some future projects.

Graft, I think screws will look fine if you use black screws. I also think just plain glue will hold up forever in this case.

Finally feels like I'm making progress on the entertainment center again. I'm procrastinating gluing the case together. I'm actually really intimidated by this glue up. Hope to be finishing in a few weeks.


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## summerfi

> Bob, I love the till but the leaded glass seals the deal. When you first started this I tried to look up how to do leaded glass myself but I gave up. Wish I could put some leaded glass in some future projects.
> 
> - Pezking7p


Dan, it's really not any harder than woodworking. Like woodworking, it just takes the right tools, knowledge, and a little experience. Let me know if I can help with any questions.


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## Pezking7p

Thanks, Bob. I appreciate that and I'll keep the offer in mind.


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## j1212t

Glad to see you back in the shop big Red!

Graft21 - I know how us woodowrkers love our overbuilding tehniques, but that is a timeout chair for a toddler right? I am more than confident that regular wood glue will suffice. 

I also have a question on finishing my mid century modern credenza/cat litterbox. I have never actually seen a mid century modern piece of furniture in real life. So what kind of finish is it usually - is it a close to wood finish, or more of a sleek varnish thing? I am struggling on wether to go shellac only on the outside (Inside where the cat ********************ter goes, it will have a few coats of poly) or should I slap on a coat of varnish/poly on the outside as well?

Shellac is for the grain popping and darkening, plus I really like it and refinishing, if ever needed will be easy, but I also want to keep with the style of this kind of furniture, so hence the question.


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## jmartel

Took a good look at my parents dining room furniture. Thomasville furniture, so decent mass produced stuff. After woodworking for a few years now, it doesn't seem nearly as daunting to make these.


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## j1212t

All surfaces have been veneered All that's left is to fit the doors and backs, finish sand and finish.


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## derekcohen

The most recent chapter of my Lingerie Chest build is here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/LCAStageCompleted.html










Regards from Perth

Derek


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## j1212t

Very nice looking Derek!!

I put the backs on, cut the doors to their right height and dry fit everything. Dry assembly is upside down because no feet holes have been drilled yet.









Only need to cut the doors to their right lenghts, then only finish sandning and gluingthe legs and putting in hardware. In the final form the doors will not be offset, because they will be on hinges not on sliders. But The grain already looks good, will be even better once I get it under a healthy coat of shellac.


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## BigRedKnothead

Shoot, the work on this forum is getting down-right intimidating of late. Nice job guys.

My chairs are all dry-fit. Time for a very strategic glue-up.


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## Iguana

Awesome look.with the contrasting slats, Red. What are you doing for the seat?


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## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Mark. Cherry for the backslats was my uncle's idea. Honestly, I balked at first. But he was right. He has a good eye for design, which is why this build is fun.

Sculpted seats. Never done them before. Probably a router to get the bulk out. Then and angle grinder….then sanding. I dunno. I'll figure it out.


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## ToddJB

Red buy this for your sculpted seats.

http://m.harborfreight.com/4-1-2-half-inch-carbide-cup-wheel-66613.html

Freaking love that thing. Easy to fiennes or to be aggressive.


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## Hammerthumb

Good to see you back in the shop Red.

Nice chairs!


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## Mean_Dean

Chairs are looking good, Big Red One! I like the cherry slats, also-they give some nice contrast.


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## JayT

Chairs are lookin' sweet! Cherry and walnut is always a good combo.


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## Sprung

Red, those chairs are sharp - love the contrast. Showed them to my wife and she loves them too.


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## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys, I'll keep you posted. Should look even better with finish.

Todd- got one of those bugger and am anxious to try it.


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## jmartel

Looking good, Red.

Spent my friday night flushing up the trim on the side cabinets. Makin' shavings.


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## Iguana

> Spent my friday night flushing up the trim…


While I love seeing pics of furniture in progress as much as.anyone, sounds like someone needs a life


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## jmartel

Already went out to eat with the wife, and not much of a bar person. I've spent the last few weeks putting off working on them and doing other things. So the time has come to where I need to buckle down and actually finish making these.


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## johnstoneb

Finally got the hardware on my lower box it is posted on the projects page.


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## summerfi

Looks great Bruce. Love the contrasting woods.


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## theoldfart

Went to the Boston MFA today, they have some nice chairs


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## theoldfart

Oh yea and this


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## BigRedKnothead

Cool stuff Kev. The Maloofy bench is my fav.


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## Pezking7p

Love it, guys.

Kev those are some inspirational chairs


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## theoldfart

Most of the above seating is actually used at the MFA


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## theoldfart

This piece is my favorite from yesterdays outing


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## DanKrager

Pssshaw! The vases don't even match each other!

DanK

They don't call me a pessimist for nothing….


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## theoldfart

OK, fine! How about this then ( grumpy old man)?









Or maybe this?









Details on makers available on (nice) request


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## DanKrager

LOL, TOF! Well played. Those pieces are beyond inspiring for me, with such attention to detail and form. You planning to make anything like these yourself? 

DanK


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## theoldfart

Dan, I'd like to make the light colored tall cabinet with the pewter hardware. It's from the beginning of the twentieth century. Here's some details


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## CL810

Kev, the Herter Brothers piece is fantastic!


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## DanKrager

Are you SERIOUS? You'd have to make a chevalet first, then maybe. What a lifetime achievement that would be! Secret spaces could abound in there…

Can you get to the real piece to get dimensions etc?
DanK


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## theoldfart

Dan, Sue and I are going back two or three times. I'm writing to the museum because I want specs on a few of the things I saw there. The had a simple yet elegant G&G chair I want to make as well.


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## DanKrager

Are you familiar with the techniques of calculating dimensions from a perspective? I'd try to get as many non-flash pics as they would allow in different perspectives, always showing three sides of the focal point. Then you don't have to waste a lot of the museum's time. A ruler in the picture helps a lot but isn't necessary if you can get one known length per picture. SketchUp is a great tool for generating dimensioned drawings from a photo. For patterns of the fret work, I'd get as straight on as possible and use that as a background for Inkscape vectors. You didn't ask for this, so forgive my intrusion… 
Good luck.
DanK
Edit: this looks like a neat little app for your purpose…


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## theoldfart

Thanks Dan. I planned on bringing a folding ruler. From there I can use perspective and ratios. Still, if I can get measurements from them….way easier!


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## jmartel

I like that ribbon stripe figure. Maybe if I can get off my butt and finish up the furniture projects that are all half done taking up space I can finally get around to making a Chevalet.


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## Waldo88

> I also have a question on finishing my mid century modern credenza/cat litterbox. I have never actually seen a mid century modern piece of furniture in real life. So what kind of finish is it usually - is it a close to wood finish, or more of a sleek varnish thing? I am struggling on wether to go shellac only on the outside (Inside where the cat ********************ter goes, it will have a few coats of poly) or should I slap on a coat of varnish/poly on the outside as well?
> 
> Shellac is for the grain popping and darkening, plus I really like it and refinishing, if ever needed will be easy, but I also want to keep with the style of this kind of furniture, so hence the question.
> 
> - Jake


Virtually all authentic midcentury furniture has very old (and yellowed) lacquer on it. On top of very old (and faded) walnut, teak, or (high-end) rosewood (excluding Heywood-Wakefield wheat furniture, which used a totally different and very odd finish). Occasionally you see oak (Lane and some Eastern European stuff, typically much tighter grained than American Oak) or Maple/Birch (H-W and some Nelson or McCobb stuff), but the vast majority is walnut (at least 50% of the stuff advertised as teak is actually walnut). Stain was rarely used, but I'm pretty sure Broyhill used it (on top of walnut), their walnut stuff is unusually dark nowadays, though I don't think it was originally.

It is not an easy look to fake, yellowed lacquer is not seen as a positive among finish makers, and the color of shellac is the wrong "tone", yellowed lacquer is more brownish than orangish. Poly was not used in midcentury furniture originally, it did not yet exist, and isn't an efficient commercial finish anyway.

Oil based poly or vanish though can actually look a bit more authentic than new lacquer or shellac, because the tone is correct, its just not as dark (so it would be closer to how the furniture looked a few decades ago). For sure do not use any water based finishes or clear lacquer, it looks nothing like an authentic midcentury furniture finish.

For example:









Every piece in our dining room is old yellowed lacquer on old faded walnut. Each piece (cabinet, table, chairs) still has its original finish.


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## Mean_Dean

> Dan, Sue and I are going back two or three times. I m writing to the museum because I want specs on a few of the things I saw there. The had a simple yet elegant G&G chair I want to make as well.
> 
> - theoldfart


I definitely would like to see photos of the G&G chair!!


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## theoldfart

Chair pic this evening Dean.


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## theoldfart

OK Dean, here it is




































Check out Peter Woodbridges posting from his magazine article, see some influences?


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## JeremiahD

I'm awestruck by everyone's skills here. I'm a beginner in this world, and looking forward to learning from you all.









Hopefully you can see this pic, it's my first project. A coffee table out of pallets from work for the kids. Sanded down, now to seal and finish


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## darinS

Looks great *Jeremiah*. What are you planning to finish and seal it with?


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## Mean_Dean

Thanks, Oldfart! Now I've got to get out to that museum…....!


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## theoldfart

Dean, that'd be a bit of a hike I think! You do have a lot of G&G south of you.


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## RPhillips

> I thought I posted this earlier, but I must have forgot to hit the "send" button. Anyway, my saw till is finished and you can read my project writeup here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - summerfi


I know this posted over a month ago.. .but damn.

Awesome job Bob.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

definitely worth a second glance. ;-)


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## CL810

Interesting points on apprenticeships.

http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/5-little-known-facts-apprenticeship


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## ToddJB

Great read, Andy. I am a huge advocate that apprenticeship should be brought back and embraced.

The biggest issue that I see with it is that kids coming out of high school aren't mature or experienced enough with their own strengths and interests to have the foggiest idea what it is they want to do with their lives. They go to college to discover that, and then when they graduate very few use that degree anyways.

That is my story anyway.

I think the issue can be traced back even earlier. I think we are building a culture of delayed adolescence, which is preventing kids from figuring out what it is they want to spend the rest of their lives doing. Instead by the time they figure it out they have so many life responsibilities that it is nearly impossible to make a dramatic shift.


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## summerfi

Thanks Rob and Bob.

I think part of the issue with kids today is there are so many choices, it makes it hard to decide what to do. Back in the day when you were apprenticed to a certain trade, it's because you were told to or that was the only option. Also, most kids today don't grow up with a work ethic. They didn't have to work to help support the family like kids of the past.


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## DLK

Considering that I am a university professor I thought I may weigh in here.


> Great read, Andy. I am a huge advocate that apprenticeship should be brought back and embraced.
> 
> The biggest issue that I see with it is that kids coming out of high school aren t mature or experienced enough with their own strengths and interests to have the foggiest idea what it is they want to do with their lives. They go to college to discover that, and then when they graduate very few use that degree anyways.
> 
> That is my story anyway.
> 
> I think the issue can be traced back even earlier. I think we are building a culture of delayed adolescence, which is preventing kids from figuring out what it is they want to spend the rest of their lives doing. Instead by the time they figure it out they have so many life responsibilities that it is nearly impossible to make a dramatic shift.
> 
> - ToddJB


I agree the article that *CL810* posted was a good read. I am also in favor of apprenticeships.

There may be some truth to "we are building a culture of delayed adolescence". We over protect kids by not giving them enough responsibilities. Our society teaches that you need not repair/make/build, because you can either buy a new one or pay someone to do the repairing/making/building. There is no need for individual skill, because there is manufactured skill. One of the most appalling is how few young people can actually cook.

However I disagree with "when they graduate very few use that degree anyways". It may be true that they are not actually employed directly using that degree, but there are no bad experiences-- there are only experiences. Any bright young person uses all that they learn just not in they way they expected they would use it. There are by the way many bright young people. Unfortunately many have not been given the chance to develop and have been taught to be lazy.

It may look like as *Bob* says "part of the issue with kids today is there are so many choices", but in reality kids seem to be given predominantly only one choice: *go to college.* Our society puts such an emphasis on a college degree and holds in disdain any other sort of career path, that trades and apprenticeships suffer. Although among the few that take the trades/apprenticeship route there are a handful that are phenomenal, there are many that are not. The would be phenomenal tradesman is often pushed into a college career that in the end he/she finds dissatisfying. Society and guidance counselors need to wake up.

Perhaps I am preaching to the choir. What I see here in these LJ forums is unexpectedly outstanding. Never have I been with such a group of dedicated scholars. The research here into methods and tools of working wood is just overwhelming. It is incredible what people have read, know and share in these forums. Anyone here would have made a good apprentice. (And many a good university scholar too.)


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## ToddJB

> However I disagree with "when they graduate very few use that degree anyways". It may be true that they are not actually employed directly using that degree, but there are no bad experiences-- there are only experiences. Any bright young person uses all that they learn just not in they way they expected they would use it. There are by the way many bright young people. Unfortunately many have not been given the chance to develop and have been taught to be lazy.


We actually have the same point of view on this, it seems. My degree is a Bachelors of Specialized Studies in Communication, Psychology and World Religion. The goal was to go into Campus Ministry. I do sales. In this respect I am not using my degree (the credentials I earned at college).

This isn't to say the reading and writing skills, critical thinking, problem solving, exposure to different cultures, tolerance, etc, that was all absorbed in college isn't used on a regular bases.

^Hows that double negative run on for writing skills?

Anywho, there is no substitute for education and experience - there are, in my mind, many substitutes for college.


----------



## Gixxerjoe04

I haven't looked at this thread until yesterday for some reason but it is pretty awesome and inspirational. I haven't built any furniture yet except two pretty bad tables before I really knew anything about woodworking, tons of screws and wood movement issues haha. I've been wanting to dip into it for awhile by my bench top planer wasn't performing well enough, could run two pieces of wood through but they wouldn't be the same thickness. So I got a new planer last week. My other challenge is space and learning mortise and tenon properly. Don't really have the space to do it until I wanted to use hand tool for the tenon. Since I don't have tons of time to deal with that, I decided to cheat. Hope my stuff isn't frowned upon once I start making stuff hopefully soon haha. Either way I'm pretty excited to try new stuff and more challenging things besides little small projects.


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## Mean_Dean

Nice Domino!


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## Pezking7p

Domino is cheating and we will judge all your furniture with heightened expectations because we know the joinery will be perfect 

I feel that 4-year college is pretty useless for those who do not get technical or specialized degrees. I've met too many people with psychology degrees or whatnot who had to start their careers from square 1 after college.

Kids are given the impression that they can do whatever they love and get rich doing it. Reality is far different.

I don't know if apprenticeships are the way to go but I'm a strong proponent of trades schools and technical schools. And teaching kids that these jobs are viable careers without going to a traditional university.


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## DLK

> I feel that 4-year college is pretty useless for those who do not get technical or specialized degrees. I ve met too many people with psychology degrees or whatnot who had to start their careers from square 1 after college.
> 
> - Pezking7p


This is not so clear to me. You can't get a Ph.D. without a M.S. degree which you can't get with out a 4-year college degree. Now I don't know what you mean by a technical or specialized degree. (My Ph.D is is a joint Mathematics and Computer Science degree. I don't know in your eyes if thats technical or specialized. I was in college/university for 11 years.) I think it depends what you do with your degree and I will agree that many end up with a degree that they in the end have no passion for. There is a difference in getting a degree and getting a career. Regardless of the degree obtained all recipients start their careers from square 1 after college. Having a college degree can make possible careers paths available to the applicant that they would not otherwise have. It does open opportunities. It is unfortunate that some degree paths may lead to opportunities that in end the applicant is not interested in, but then one has to ask why did they pursue that degree. I think there is a misplaced expectation that getting a college degree automatically will guarantee a career. Both the degree and the career sought take work and participation of the applicant. Neither is just handed to you.


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## Pezking7p

By technical or specialized I mean degrees that have relatively obvious careers associated with them. Engineering, math, science, business. Pretty much, if you took a fair amount of courses that were not directly related to your degree, it probably should have been done in a 2-year or 3-year format.

My point is, why go to college for four years (at a university that costs extra because of all the extra features and facilities) to get a large amount of debt and a job that pays $25,000?

My wife has a fine art degree and works in marketing. I would say her career is 10 years delayed because there is no career path for pottery unless you decide to make pottery and sell it. I say square one because she started as though she had no college, and actually had to supplement her education to get where she is.

By contrast, you could get a job where I work at age 18 with a high school diploma and a good understanding of how a tape measure works, and within 2 years you could be making $22-$23/hr, with lots of overtime. Learn a trade as you make 50% more than that.

Too much emphasis is placed on four year degrees by our culture and our employers. College is the new high school. Except college is expensive. And confusing for youths to pick and choose between majors.


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## Gixxerjoe04

I graduated 5 years ago, doing a job not technically with my degree but needed a degree to get the job. Not the best job in the world, not great pay but not totally bad I guess plus it's flexible. I didn't know what I wanted to do when I was in college, hell I didn't know what I wanted to do when I graduated. Ended up getting a degree just to get it over with, was too immature to think about the future. Sucks, would love to be an apprentice now or even go back to school because I know a lot more about life in general. Butttt now I've got bills to pay and a woodworking addiction. Maybe I can end up turning my addiction into a career later on down the road haha


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Great discussion guys. I'll quote Chief Ten Bears:

"It's easy to become confused by these questions. Before we take action we need to talk about this some more at another time. That is all I have to say."

Ha! I have a degree in Pastoral Ministry and I work in Operations Management for our nations biggest railroad. Whooduhthunk?

I have no regrets. I matured a lot in college and I know that I would not be the healthy person/husband/father I am today without those experiences. Not to mention my effectiveness as a leader in the workplace.

That said, I'm glad basketball paid for most of my education, because it's silly expensive these days. At times I fear that college might not be worth the debt/expense for my children.


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## Gixxerjoe04

Which railroad might that be, csx, norfolk southern or up, figured one of those 3 would be the biggest. I tried forever during and after college to get a job with norfolk or csx as a conductor. Don't know how many times I applied over the years, I finally got a call to come to an interview earlier this year or late last year I believe. Called like a couple days before their big interview session. Of course I wasn't able to get off of work, asked some people on a railroad forum about that particular hub(not sure what the right term is), supposedly wasn't the greatest and they didn't recommend leaving a stable job for that. So…. still at my job, of course I'd say if I were to have got that job, prob wouldn't be doing much woodworking.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

Chief Ten Bears was a sage indeed!

One of my high school teachers ask one day when we were discussing career options, "Is it better to be an ace mechanic or an average engineer?" He happened to be the one that inspired me to apply for the Air Force Academy. After being appointed to Air Force, as an alternate to Annapolis and being offered the appointment to Merchant Marine, I was medically disqualified at my last physical about a month prior to entering. One of my first college profs who had a PhD on the end of his EE advised me to get in the trade for employment opportunities and for significantly better compensation. As a product of a union apprenticeship, I have no regrets, but I do wonder if I would have been an average engineer?


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## jmartel

For my parents, my options were either A) Go to college, or B) go in the Military. I eventually convinced them to add C) Go into an apprenticeship program at a shipyard to the list since I wasn't sure that I wanted to go to school.

I ended up getting an engineering degree anyway. But what a lot of people who are the standard office workers don't realize is that a lot of the trades I work with in the shipyards make more money than I do, as a degreed engineer. Perfectly respectable to get your hands dirty, and there's some money to be made out there without a degree.

Hell, when I moved to Seattle and couldn't find a job for a bit I was seriously looking into underwater welding school (could already SCUBA dive, could already weld, figured I'd combine them). Loads of money (2-3x what I make now) in those gigs in exchange for extremely dangerous work and lots of time away from the wife. Luckily I got a job shoreside instead.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

The trades have suffered significantly with everyone else in the last 40 years. Significantly higher compensation was a common complaint among the engineers I worked with over my career. When I was a 2nd year apprentice, a mechanical engineer who designed medial equipment lived next door. One day he asked about wages. I answered his question. He never spoke to me again. I supposed my college prof was right.

Now, if I can get good enuf with wood to make furniture ;-)


----------



## jmartel

The way I look at it is that I make enough to be comfortable. More would be great, but I'm not going to fret if someone that works hourly makes more than me. Bills are paid and there's enough left over to save for retirement and have some hobbies. Good enough for me.


----------



## upchuck

Interesting discussion…I have some thoughts on it. With an apprenticeship so much depends on the quality and character of the program and the master. With union programs these days the master is less important but in the olden days the apprentice lived with, ate with, and worked with the master's family. Ben Franklin ran away from his apprenticeship as a printer because he thought that his master was abusing him. His master was his brother. Ravi Shankar (Indian Sitar player and musician) wrote about one of the apprentices he shared a master with who was kept chained to a tree for his first year or so.
And from a master's point of view there was a long term commitment to the care and feeding of a child plus the training. How much was a 10-14 year old worth for the first three years of a seven year apprenticeship? And once the kid was worth his food and lodging and might be able to repay the master what was to keep him from running off to the colonies where his skills were valued. And on completion of an apprenticeship the master was required to provide the journeyman with a set of tools to go forth and compete for the available work. 


> ...There is a difference in getting a degree and getting a career…
> - Combo Prof


Yes. There is also a difference between getting a degree and getting an education.
Just my random thoughts on the subject.
chuck


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

There is still a lot of abuse in apprenticeships. Here is WA the "unorganized" sued to have their own training program. They won the right at least 25 years ago. At first they didn't have any classroom training, just on the job experience. Finally, the state required them to have 8 hours a year in classroom training. I believe that is up to 24 hours per year now. I have known of some who used their "apprentices" for the entire "apprenticeship" boxing houses or drill drilling them ;-( IMO, it is little more than a cheap labor program.

The union apprenticeship I entered nearly 50 years ago had math and science requirements to enter, we spent 2 nights a week for 4 years in the classroom learning electrical theory, code, blue prints, ect and were rotated to get a well rounded experience in most facets of the trade. Today, it has changed to 5 years and one day a week in the classroom rather than evening classes. The program has labs for hands on experience with motors, controls, VFDs, test equipment….......... It is competitive to get in and nonperformance can cause dismissal.

There is a dramatic difference in the programs.


----------



## DanKrager

When I went to college I had no idea what to "be", so I chose math as a major in a very competitive school. Almost didn't make it. But, I figured that math is the basis for just about any other studies. During that time I began to focus on mechanical engineering as a goal, but the school didn't offer that degree. Ended up herding 7th and 8th graders in the largest junior high in New York state for four years while looking for mechanical engineering positions. No one in industry would hire a draftable male, so after four years I started my own woodworking business, driving semis up and down the east coast to supplement. There are few things more "fun" than maneuvering a 42' box in downtown Manhattan, and I gotta say there was nothing in the four years of higher math and quantum mechanics that prepared a farm boy for that! When the neighbor answered his door and was shot in the stomach with a shotgun (a random burglary gone bad) while wife and baby daughter were home alone, we decided to bail out and go back to my home town in IL to raise family. I did whatever was necessary to supplement woodworking income with factory work, more truck driving, office work, and eventually became a computer network engineer. I believe the sheepskin helped with at least some of those.
In short, college didn't make a career happen for me but it taught me how to research and reason logically. I worry about grandchildren thinking about college…and while all my own kids graduated with at least a bachelors degree from top of the line schools, things have changed. I believe that good apprenticeships would be more valuable to those who are not sure what they want to do. If they later choose to get more education, they will have an income to pay for it, something to fall back upon when bad things happen. That goes for both genders.
DanK


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## DanKrager

Back to furniture. I believe Jweld might be on to something here. If you can weld underwater, why not build furniture underwater? Can't you just imagine the value that would add to a carefully crafted inlaid piece?

DanK


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## jmartel

Or furniture crafted by King Neptune himself?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The lower stretchers begin….









Dovetail action coming up.


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## Waldo88

> There may be some truth to "we are building a culture of delayed adolescence". We over protect kids by not giving them enough responsibilities. Our society teaches that you need not repair/make/build, because you can either buy a new one or pay someone to do the repairing/making/building. There is no need for individual skill, because there is manufactured skill. One of the most appalling is how few young people can actually cook.
> 
> However I disagree with "when they graduate very few use that degree anyways". It may be true that they are not actually employed directly using that degree, but there are no bad experiences-- there are only experiences. Any bright young person uses all that they learn just not in they way they expected they would use it. There are by the way many bright young people. Unfortunately many have not been given the chance to develop and have been taught to be lazy.
> 
> It may look like as *Bob* says "part of the issue with kids today is there are so many choices", but in reality kids seem to be given predominantly only one choice: *go to college.* Our society puts such an emphasis on a college degree and holds in disdain any other sort of career path, that trades and apprenticeships suffer. Although among the few that take the trades/apprenticeship route there are a handful that are phenomenal, there are many that are not. The would be phenomenal tradesman is often pushed into a college career that in the end he/she finds dissatisfying. Society and guidance counselors need to wake up.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Eh, I tend not to think of younger generations as lazy or unskilled anymore, they have a different view of the world (though I am a fringe millennial, technically an X but raised more like a millennial).

I do strongly disagree about the repair/make/build thing. I tend to think of boomers and old X's as the low point in repair/make/build ability and drive. DIY culture is very strong among younger folks. "Making food" and actually cooking are different things, but I think among the young the issue isn't "making food", its that they did not grow up in a cooking environment; the explosion in eating out/takeout occurred when they were young; teaching yourself how to cook well takes a long time.

Agree on the overpush to go to college. Then again, younger people grew up in an environment where being good with one of them computer thingamajiggers is the ticket to a great life if great and at minimum a necessary life skill, everyone was herded that way to a degree from basically all angles. Using computers is a college track skill. Everyone older than me knows a world without computers, everyone younger than me does not (we got Apple 2's in my first grade class). Computers fundamentally changed reality, most people realized this from relatively early on, and this was projected onto their kids, wanting their kids to be on the right side of this change.

The next generations are going to be herded a different way. Most college degrees give poor bang for the buck, and being good with computers is a dime a dozen skill, things absolutely not true 20 years ago. Skilled trade shortages is definitely a real thing.

Laziness is highly dependent on the point of view of what work is. I can absolute be lazy and work my tail off in the shop, or work hard while seemingly lounging at my computer, clicking on things.

I often wonder where we are going to be in 10-20 years culturally. The big DIY explosion, the making crap out of pallets and huge pinterest boards of cheap and easy, but neat, crafts, will create as a byproduct a lot of really skilled people over time. Its like online culture is relearning what boomers and old x's forgot. You can see a slow but steady progression, the level of sophistication is growing bit by bit. The context of this thread is where it shows up quite a bit; virtually everyone I know has at least one piece of furniture (or built ins) that they made or refinished themselves. The exception…my parents.


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## Gixxerjoe04

Need some ideas, want to make this piece of live edge cherry into a coffee table. Been trying to decide on how I want to do the legs. Thought about doing metal legs but would rather do wood, make it more of a challenge. I wanted to do something different than just 4 legs or something. Wanted to something like a Z, where it looks like it's balancing or something like that. By Z, the table top being the top of the Z, if you get what I'm saying, except have the base expanded to be able to support it and not be wobbly I guess. I dunno, just looking for ideas, or maybe things not to do. I haven't flattened the slab yet, it's prettty hefty but has a bow, thinking it's final thickness will be around 1.25", hopefully bigger but won't know until I flatten it. Haven't done that before, gotta build a router jig to do it, hope I can get it nice and flat. I think it's almost 36" wide by 32", or vise versa, big old cherry crotch.


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## summerfi

> I tend to think of boomers and old X s as the low point in repair/make/build ability and drive. DIY culture is very strong among younger folks.
> - Waldo88


I must be the exception then. I'm a boomer who has always felt that I perhaps take DIY-ism to a fanatical level. I hate to pay anyone to do anything for me. My parents were from the great depression era and poor, so from birth it was drilled into me that if you want something, you make it yourself. If it breaks, you fix it yourself. We had no money, so that was the only way. Of course it has become a lifelong lifestyle for me. If I need something now, be it a piece of furniture, a new shop, or even a house, I cut the trees down, saw the lumber on my sawmill, and build what I need. The same goes for pretty much every other aspect of my life, such as growing my own garden, doing my own taxes, etc. etc. etc. Now that I'm getting older some of that is going to have to change, but I'm still resisting. I bet I'm not the only boomer like that.


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## j1212t

Good discussion, I have nothing much to add, except that I like to stay out of the consumer circle and DIY as much as I can, I like it better, and I am what you call generation Y ? (late 1980's)

Anyhow, sorry to derail the discussion, but my cat ********************ter is ready, check out the finished pics here:


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## Pezking7p

Re: cherry crotch. I think live she pieces always look nice with steel. The clean, industrial lines of the steel balance the untamed wood edges. I think the challenge is less in construction and more in design, but lately I think more and more about design so I'm biased.

I also think a nakashima style table is a handsome use of a love edge piece. But, I personally feel nakashima style work looks "copied" or one dimensional unless executed perfectly. but I would probably make an attempt at it if you were determined not to use steel. It kind of fits your bill, too.


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## Gixxerjoe04

That is real pretty, I think my slab might be a little too short for that exact style, but could work off of something like that perhaps. I'm just hoping my mdf table top is flat to where the jig will work properly.


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## Pezking7p

I wish I could sell you on a #5 or a #7 to flatten instead of the router.


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## Gixxerjoe04

If you can come show me how to do it properly haha.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

> ...... The same goes for pretty much every other aspect of my life, such as growing my own garden, doing my own taxes, etc. etc. etc. Now that I m getting older some of that is going to have to change, but I m still resisting. I bet I m not the only boomer like that.
> 
> - summerfi


Nope, you ain't ;-)



> When I went to college I had no idea what to "be", so I chose math as a major in a very competitive school…........ I believe the sheepskin helped with at least some of those.
> In short, college didn t make a career happen for me but it taught me how to research and reason logically. I worry about grandchildren thinking about college…and while all my own kids graduated with at least a bachelors degree from top of the line schools, things have changed. I believe that good apprenticeships would be more valuable to those who are not sure what they want to do. If they later choose to get more education, they will have an income to pay for it, something to fall back upon when bad things happen. That goes for both genders.
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


+1, I tell kids to get something even if you don't know what. Any in demand skill is valuable to fall back on. The degree will open doors that would otherwise b e closed even if a degree is not necessary. My brother applied to the state of OR to be a truck inspector at weigh stations. He had many years of driving and working on them. No degree, just GED. They wanted a college kid. That is what they hired. They spend an hour walking around dangerous trucks with their clipboards doing their check lists and let them go. My brother and many more like him could identify dangerous vehicle in 5 minutes without the list on the clipboard. But HR people are from college ;-) That is what they are hiring, capable or not.


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## BigRedKnothead

I had forgotten how many hours these lower chair stretchers burn. Compound angles, loose tenons, hand cut dovetails. Must have A-game.


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## Nugs

Good discussions above. I am from a younger generation than I think most of you are, I am 26, I went to University, got an Electrical Engineering degree and am currently working as an electrical engineer. Someone mentioned above about the younger generation wanting to make a difference and do what they love. My opinion is that you should do what pays the bills, you don't necessarily have to love what you do, just not hate it enough to go crazy. I think the whole "love and be passionate at what you do" thing is perpetuated by corporations and workplaces, it's a great excuse to pay people less than what they deserve. Because if you love what you do, then you'll be more likely to do it for free/less money. When was the last time you saw a job ad that didn't have the words passionate in it? No one is looking for a level headed individual that does a good job, you need to be emotionally attached and give it your all 100% of the time. Anyways, I know everyone has their opinions and just wanted to add mine to the discussion.

Back to furniture…. Here's an entrance bench I just finished for my front entrance. It's made from walnut and cherry, it's tough to tell in the picture, but the through tenons on the bottom stretcher are all slightly proud and chamfered at 45.


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## jmartel

Looks great, Nugs. And I'm 27, so right around the same as you. There's a few of us younger folk on here.


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## CL810

Love the bench Nugs. Welcome to the thread.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

Nice work Nugs, I have 40 years on ya. I hope I can enter furniture at that level.


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## Gixxerjoe04

I just turned 29, getting old haha


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## bobasaurus

30 here, guess I don't qualify as young anymore.

Working on my table legs:


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## rad457

That is one amazing shaving! Got to love them Lie Nielsens, too bad they are out of my pay scale now I could only afford the 102. LOL!



> 30 here, guess I don t qualify as young anymore.
> 
> Working on my table legs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - bobasaurus


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## BigRedKnothead

Intriguing publication in the works for we furniture foamers….

http://www.mortiseandtenonmag.com/


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## CL810

I saw that Red and I'm very curious about it on several levels. Not sure his business model is sustainable. A no ad mag would be nice for the reader but corporate sponsors? Not sure about that. Watching for the subscription rates.


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## Iguana

Interesting that Popular Woodworking is listed as a sponsor. Probably not a lot of overlap in article scope, but would still be competition for mag subscription dollars…


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## BigRedKnothead

I concur guys. I'd to see publications like that thrive, but it's a tough go.

Then again, Lost Art Press would seem to very improbable venture to most in the publishing industry….and they are doing just fine. Helps that they have the Schwarz's influence. He's probably the most influential cat for this craft in the past decade.

Btw Mark, there's now way I'm gonna get these chairs done in 40 hours….lol.

Lower stretcher dovetail:


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## Graft21

Just finished this time out bench for my daughter. Apple and cherry wood. This is my first "real" furniture build with mortise and tenon joinery. No more cheap pine from HD and pocket screws for me. I still have a lot to learn and improve upon. I learn a little bit more every time I come on this site.


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## BigRedKnothead

^Atta boy Graft21. Looks like a solid piece. Keep chipping away and picking up skills with each piece.

I must admit my attempt at outdoor furniture this spring hasn't help up as I would have hoped. If you remember I built this patio table out of white oak and ipe. I finished it with a couple coats of teak oil. 6 months later it already looks very grey and weathered:









I have no desire to add finish to it twice a year to keep it looking nice. Let it grey I guess.


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## theoldfart

Red, my deck is Ipe'. I've never had the finish last more than a season. I use Penofin regularly just to prolong the woods useful life, the nice color is a temporary bonus.


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## BigRedKnothead

Interesting Kev. I used the teak oil per Mark Spag's recommendation. Stuff might hold up in AZ, but not so much in the rest of the country. I like Penofin too.

On the deck in our old house I used to use Behr deck paint because it held up so much better than the transparent stains. Consumer reports made that claim…and they were right.

Apart from some Adirondacks, I don't think I'll get into outdoor furniture much. Actually, as much as I like wood, I prefer a nice cement patio with outdoor tile. Wood outdoors is too much stinkin maintenance.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

Wood decks are the worst invention man ever made ;-(


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## theoldfart

Bob,not really. We have spent some incredible time on ours. Good friends, good food, beer and wine. Watching hummingbirds at the feeders, bears in the gardens, cubs playing in the backyard. Wouldn't trade these for anything. All from our wooden deck.


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## BigRedKnothead

Are you certain you wouldn't have had just as much fun on a nice tiled patio Kev?;-) I know what your gettin at. We had a lot of good times on our old deck.

But, for everything we know about how wood and wood finishes react outdoors, it does seem silly to build something completely out of wood, completely horizontal….and see how it holds up under all the rain and snow.


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## theoldfart

Yup, masochism at it's best! Given what I paid for that Ipe' that damn thing's gonna last longer than me.


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## bobasaurus

I wonder if a marine spar varnish would hold up better?


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## theoldfart

I used some on my mailbox post and it's still looking good after three years. Stuff, I think, is too slick for an outdoor floor. Every time it rains or gets dew on it I think it would be a skating rink. No rails on my deck so …....


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## TheFridge

More joinery practice while building a chisel till.


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## bobasaurus

Wow that is elaborate. Interesting use of dovetails.


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## BigRedKnothead

> I wonder if a marine spar varnish would hold up better?
> 
> - bobasaurus


I'm thinkin so….although that stuff is kinda nasty, and has to be completely sanded to refinish.

Not to change topics, but I've been thinking a lot about hand saws and furniture making. I've got several, and the all seem to have their own little tasks. For dovetails, I like my Summerfield Gent saw, or my LN DT saw. However, both can be difficult to start cross grain.










I see so many joiners like Matthew Wolfe who prefer Japanese saws for fine joinery cuts. I may work one into the repetoire eventually. For now, I've got this saw from LJ ErikF that is around 20tip, with a really heavy spine on it. It's a little slow cutting….but starts like butter.

Splittin the line…every time.


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## Pezking7p

Outdoor wood furniture is doomed to failure. Spar varnish will last 2-3 years but that's as good as it gets. Sad.

So as beautiful as I think my latest project is going to turn out, there are some construction details I don't like that made it very difficult to assemble and caused some surprises.

Notice the difference between the front and the back top rails.










The I made the rear rail that shape because I thought it would add strength to the case and be easier to set a back in to. However, in order to install vertical dividers for drawers, I had to either dado the rear rail allll the way up to almost the top, or install the dividers at the same time I glued up the rails to the sides. Here's a pic of the near-disaster that was my glue up of the carcass. In this photo I am glueing together: the bottom shelf to both the front and back rails, as well as the shelf's tenons that anchor it tot the side panels, all four rails are being glued to the side panels, and the two vertical dividers are being glued in place. There are no dados in the front top rails to help align the dividers (this was a mistake). Here's a picture of the side show in action. Almost 20 minutes of glue up.










If this wasn't bad enough, when I slid my drawers in for the first time…whoops! The top drawer bottoms out on the rail, so I had to hog out a bunch of the rail for the drawer to seat properly.










So, all this I boil down into a few lessons for case construction.

1. Make the upper rails the same size, and make all shelves/dividers/web frames so that that can be installed AFTER case assembly. Everything should slide in after the fact.
2. All glued joints should physically mate so that joints can be located correctly during glue up. Even if it's just a small notch, it will put the part in the right place. 
3. Plan simple glue ups. 15-20 minutes is too long to be glueing and clamping.


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## lateralus819

I tend to see Matt using the Dozuki more for dovetailed dividers and such on large cases.


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## BigRedKnothead

^Ya, Matt still uses an LN saw for DTs and such. I have seen him use a Dozuki on joinery cuts…. such as removing waste on breadboard etc. Japanese saws are silly easy to start…but I still prefer western.

Pez- not sure I wrapped my head around each of the issues you were having, but I'm sure you won't be the first or the last. You can be as strategic as you want with glueups, but some issues need to be prevented in the design/build realm. I think I avoided some bonehead mistakes early on by building from plans. The first couple pieces I designed always ran into some issues I hadn't thought of at dry-fit or glueup.

Also one of the reasons I switched to hide glue(titebond). Longer open time. I mean, who's ever in a hurry for the glue to dry? I'm usually racing because it's drying to dang fast.

That, and way less issues with finishing….glue spots etc.


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## jmartel

I'm using hot hide glue on the night stands and that's even worse. Gotta glue it up quick before the glue cools and begins to gel. I haven't really felt rushed with Titebond ever, but I certainly did with the HHG.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

> Bob,not really. We have spent some incredible time on ours. Good friends, good food, beer and wine. Watching hummingbirds at the feeders, bears in the gardens, cubs playing in the backyard. Wouldn t trade these for anything. All from our wooden deck.
> 
> - theoldfart


Think how much more fun you could have had in all the hours you spent maintaining, building and rebuilding. Decks are not like fine woodworking, just basic carpentry. A vertical deck which did not get covered with fir needles 15 minutes after it was cleaned, hold water 10 months of the year and never get dry enough to refinish some years might be a different animal.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

> I m using hot hide glue on the night stands and that s even worse. Gotta glue it up quick before the glue cools and begins to gel. I haven t really felt rushed with Titebond ever, but I certainly did with the HHG.
> 
> - jmartel





> Also one of the reasons I switched to hide glue(titebond). Longer open time. I mean, who s ever in a hurry for the glue to dry? I m usually racing because it s drying to dang fast.
> 
> That, and way less issues with finishing….glue spots etc.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Titebond hide glue is the best of all worlds??


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## BigRedKnothead

> Titebond hide glue is the best of all worlds??
> 
> - TopamaxSurvivor


I think so. Another thing I like is that it blends as a filler in something like a gappy dovetail.


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## summerfi

Red I have a question about the Titebond hide glue. I've never used it, but I've restored a lot of antique furniture where the old hot hide glue had crystallized and basically disintegrated, leaving the furniture piece to fall apart. Do you know if anyone has done research on Titebond hide glue to know how it holds up over time? Maybe it's not been around long enough to know. Just curious. The benefits you mentioned are significant, but if it doesn't last then I'd prefer to go with something else.


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## lateralus819

Titebond says on the bottle not to use where strength is needed.


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## Pezking7p

Red, sorry for the confusing write up. I blame the iPhone. I mostly meant that life is a lot easier if you design the piece so that all divider, shelves, and web frames can be slid in from the back AFTER the carcass is assembled.

I used TB2 extend. I like it. Dries a more natural wood color but it is a little watery. I'm interested in the liquid hide glue.


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## CL810

+1 to TB liquid hide glue.

PWW review of TB and Old Brown liquid hide glues. Interesting read.


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## b2rtch

"Wood decks are the worst invention man ever made" 
I build deck in Portland Oregon 30 years ago. 
This was my very first deck. 
This was a rental house and nothing has ever been done to maintain this deck made of clear cedar. 
There are fir trees all around the house.
I saw the deck for the first time in 30 years last summer, it is in excellent condition. 
I was extremely surprised.

I now live in Utah. 
I have been using Cabot Australian Timber Oil. 
I love it. 
I stained my fence probably 5 or 6 years ago, it still look like new.
I use this oil on all my outside furniture and some inside.
Unfortunately the original formulation is not longer available in Utah, it has been replaced with a water based formulation that I do not like at all.
My wife is going to Las Vegas in a few weeks, she will buy me 2×1 gallon cans of the original formulation.


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## johnstoneb

Red,
I use a dozuki for my dovetails not totally happy with it. As soon as I can afford it I am going to have Bob build me a dovetail saw. I took all the teeth off a dozuki crosscutting red oak. Had to replace the blade which isn't hard to do nor too expensive still crosscutting a 1/2" of oak.

I have a wooden deck I built about 1990 used construction fir used Olympic stain on it once and thompson water seal another time mainly just let it grey out. I replace 2 2×4's in it this summer. We don't get a lot of rain or snow here mainly the sun just bakes things well done.


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## Waldo88

> Interesting Kev. I used the teak oil per Mark Spag s recommendation. Stuff might hold up in AZ, but not so much in the rest of the country. I like Penofin too.
> 
> On the deck in our old house I used to use Behr deck paint because it held up so much better than the transparent stains. Consumer reports made that claim…and they were right.
> 
> Apart from some Adirondacks, I don t think I ll get into outdoor furniture much. Actually, as much as I like wood, I prefer a nice cement patio with outdoor tile. Wood outdoors is too much stinkin maintenance.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Having had both, I absolutely prefer the cement and tile.

Unless its made of cement and steel, I tend to think of all outdoor furniture as disposable, and not really worth much of an investment in time or $$$. The effects of weathering are just too powerful.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

> "Wood decks are the worst invention man ever made"
> I build deck in Portland Oregon 30 years ago.
> This was my very first deck.
> This was a rental house and nothing has ever been done to maintain this deck made of clear cedar.
> There are fir trees all around the house.
> I saw the deck for the first time in 30 years last summer, it is in excellent condition.
> I was extremely surprised.
> 
> - b2rtch


I suppose that depends on the definition of excellent ;-) I suppose the amount of use and wear and tear has a bearing on durability too. Wet cedar is not very durable when in daily use. The only thing slicker than ice is an old, wet cedar deck!


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## b2rtch

"excellent condition" means that the only thing the deck would need is a good cleaning and a coat of sealer/stain.
If you look at the deck you cannot see one nail or one screw.

Where I live now I have a stamped and stained concrete patio and it needs maintenance every year.
Every year I need to put this sealer on it if I want to keep it looking good..


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## TopamaxSurvivor

I guess mine is excellent, but that doesn't mean I'm very happy with wood decks ;-( Too bad concrete is not practical.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

> Titebond says on the bottle not to use where strength is needed.
> 
> - lateralus819


Obviously a box and many other small projects would not require strength. Where would one define the line where "strength" is required and bottled hide glue not appropriate?


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## theoldfart

I wouldn't use it for butt joints, my preference is Titebond III for them. Bottled hide glue is fine for mechanical joints like DT's, M&T and the like.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

There are some places it is obvious, but being a wannabee, I'm wonder where I could take advantage of it not compromising the finish because of squeeze out ect, but not compromise the durability of the project.


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## Hammerthumb

Picked up some lumber for a dresser I have planned.


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## Pezking7p

^^^^ holy moly! Your wood looks amazing.

I think any hide glue will dry out and break down over time. It's the nature of proteins. BUT, I would be ok if it was easier to clean up squeeze out? Can anyone confirm/deny how it cleans up as well as how it affects finish? I hate trying to clean up squeeze out after the fact, and cleaning up raised grain from wiping with a wet cloth isn't a lot better. I would try any alternatives.

99% of wooden decks look terrible after the first year. Needs to be re-sealed every year to avoid graying. Composite decks are good, but expensive. If someone could find an outdoor finish that lasts/protects more than a few years and wasn't a thick film finish like spar varnish I think you could make a lot of money selling it.


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## bobasaurus

Wow Paul, that is some incredible curly maple. And wide! Do you send this stuff through a normal power jointer/planer, or will it just chip out like crazy? Hand planing curly maple is tricky but satisfying.


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## Hammerthumb

Actually, I'm going to resaw this to maximize the yield. I'm going to try to cut some 1/16" veneer. I have to rip the boards down to do this, but will label the veneer so it can be matched back together. Have never tried this with maple. Wish me luck!


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## CL810

Dan, hide glue removed with warm water so if you miss some squeeze out and it dries a wet warm rag takes care of it.

Paul, do you have a helical head in your planer? I would guess tear out is going to be a challenge.


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## jmartel

> and cleaning up raised grain from wiping with a wet cloth isn t a lot better. I would try any alternatives.
> 
> - Pezking7p


Do you finish sand before gluing? Usually I don't finish sand before gluing unless it's a panel in a frame that's not easily sanded


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## Pezking7p

I don't finish sand but I would like to! Cleaning up squeeze out and sanding around a mortise and tenon joint is a pita.


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## TheFridge

Check out Shipwright's blogs. I believe he has a lot of info on hide glue.


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## jmartel

With hide glue, you can clamp it up and then just wipe it with a warm damp cloth after clamped and not have any issues. Then sand your piece after the glue dries and you don't have to worry about raised grain. Or use a cabinet scraper to get in there.

I haven't tried liquid hide glue yet, but probably will shortly. Hot hide glue is definitely a time crunch. Old Brown Glue is a bit expensive, and has a sell-by-date on it that needs to be factored in. I guess you can toss the bottle in a pot of warm water to make it flow better and have a nice long open time. Similar to warming up a rattle can of spray paint to make it spray better.


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## Pezking7p

Can't you do the same with pva glue? Just wipe it up?


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## jmartel

PVA glue interferes with finishes. It'll show up as lighter colored spots usually on the wood when finish is applied if it's not sanded out thoroughly. It's a lot easier with a hide glue that doesn't show up under finish.

Also, that's some gnarly looking maple, Paul. Didn't say that earlier. Shame you are going to rip them down though. But I guess veneer is probably the easiest way to maximize yield as you said.


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## Gixxerjoe04

What is this hide glue you all are talking about, never heard of it? I was curious how people dealt with squeeze out in m&t and how glue messes up when finishing if not taken care of.


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## Pezking7p

So you're telling me that hide glue can be finished and doesn't show up blatantly glue colored??? (Instantly buys 7 gallons of hide glue)

Joe, hide glue is a traditional glue made from…hides. It's the kind of glue they make from horses that go to the glue factory, or a protein based glue. It is traditionally heated to make it flow, and can be un-glued with heat and water at any point in its life. The tite bond version does not need to be heated, which makes it pretty sweet.


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## Gixxerjoe04

Well, learn something new everyday, I was thinking it being called hide glue was about it being able to not be seen when finished I guess.


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## BigRedKnothead

> Titebond says on the bottle not to use where strength is needed.
> 
> - lateralus819


Right, ALL titebonds (hide or yellow) say "not for structural or load-bearing applications." That's their cover-all disclaimer;-)

Here's an interesting read about the strength of wood glues:
http://www.oldbrownglue.com/images/articles/HowStrongisYourGlue_FWW.pdf



> Red I have a question about the Titebond hide glue. I ve never used it, but I ve restored a lot of antique furniture where the old hot hide glue had crystallized and basically disintegrated, leaving the furniture piece to fall apart. Do you know if anyone has done research on Titebond hide glue to know how it holds up over time? Maybe it s not been around long enough to know. Just curious. The benefits you mentioned are significant, but if it doesn t last then I d prefer to go with something else.
> 
> - summerfi


Of course that's tough to answer without a crystal ball. Yellow glue has been around since the 50's….and time will tell how that stuff will hold up after 100 years, like our antiques.

I have to believe the product Franklin Industries or Old Brown is cranking out has to be more consistent, and thus stronger and longer lasting than the stuff woodworkers were whipping up in their shops back in the day. I surely wouldn't be gluing up some dining chairs with it if I didn't trust the stuff.

My experimenting with glue came after reading about the benefits of hide glue (probably Schwarz). Then I polled some of my favorite furniture makers. Nearly all of them used hide glue for joinery work….and yellow glue for laminations. After tinkering, the benefits were just to great. As I've noted:

- reversibility…. with heat, if you goof.
- slower set time
- compatibility with finishes. bye bye blotch. 
- warm color that looks like a filler

Like this joint. There's actually a tiny gap at the top, but filled with hide glue….it blends.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> So you re telling me that hide glue can be finished and doesn t show up blatantly glue colored??? (Instantly buys 7 gallons of hide glue)
> 
> - Pezking7p


I can't speak for stains because I rarely use them. I can tell you that it isn't necessary to get all the hide glue out of the corners of a joint for wipe on poly and such. It blends…not blotches.


----------



## Gixxerjoe04

Curious how you guys with building and being able to finish stuff with uninsulated shops during cold winter months. Finally getting my garage back in order and I want to try to get to work on stuff but it's only getting colder, and finishing stuff seems like it would be a real challenge since most finishes require it to be somewhat warm I guess.


----------



## CL810

- warm color that looks like a filler

+1. Its better than PVAs when mixing sawdust and glue to fill in holes or gaps. Thinking about it now, I'm not sure about lighter woods like maple and poplar but definitely with cherry and walnut.


----------



## TheFridge

It's a bitch.


----------



## rad457

A trick I was shown was to rub down joint when clamped for final fit with Chapman wax from L.V. Glue just peels off and the wax residual is not a problem when Shellac is used or just give it a cleaning with some alcohol. (Not Scotch or Bourbon!)


----------



## jmartel

> - warm color that looks like a filler
> 
> +1. Its better than PVAs when mixing sawdust and glue to fill in holes or gaps. Thinking about it now, I m not sure about lighter woods like maple and poplar but definitely with cherry and walnut.
> 
> - CL810


It does show up a bit darker if you are filling gaps with sawdust. But on good joints, the glue line is invisible.


----------



## jmartel

> Well, learn something new everyday, I was thinking it being called hide glue was about it being able to not be seen when finished I guess.
> 
> - Gixxerjoe04


Nowadays it's mostly made from cows instead of Horses. Basically, think about how they make gelatin, that's essentially what they do for the glue.

Liquid hide glue is basically normal hide glue that has a bunch of Urea (same as they add into the exhausts of newer Diesels to help pass emissions) added so that it stays liquid at room temperatures. It's still pretty thick, though. So warming the bottle up a bit helps it flow better.


----------



## byerbyer

Quick question for the group. After I knock out my workbench this weekend I'll go right into building a mid-century dresser for baby Byer. The carcass will be painted and drawers will likely get shellac & wax.










I can get 10"+ wide 4/4 poplar and 7"+ wide 4/4 #1 soft maple for the same price per bdft. I've worked with poplar in the past and it works well with hand tools, but it's a bit softer and dents easily. I haven't really worked much maple with hand tools anyway, so I don't know if it would hold up better or not. It would also require more glue-ups because of the narrow widths… What material would you pick in my shoes?


----------



## JayT

I'd do the soft maple for durability. Save the best grain-matched glue ups for drawer fronts and paint the rest. It's a bit tougher to work, but you'll be thankful for the extra toughness when baby Byer is three or four years old.


----------



## ShaneA

Maple, poplar is great to work with…but it is pretty dang soft. Probably want more durability for a piece like that.


----------



## jmartel

Definitely Maple. But I'm not a fan of Poplar. It dents too easily. Just like how I can't see using Alder again unless someone specifically requests it. I've got a bit of alder left from the blanket chest I made, but that will be shop storage type stuff.


----------



## TheFridge

Nervous like a horse in a glue factory


----------



## DanKrager

Maybe it's the area I get wood from but here, poplar beats soft maple hands down for clarity, workability and durability. Yes, they are both secondary woods and soft, but if you're using wooden runners, poplar has superior abrasion resistance. In the repair work I've done, I've seen at least two very old pieces with poplar drawer sides almost no visible wear having rubbed a deep groove in a piece of oak frame. 
I know Jmaple dislikes the poplar stuff, but my experience is different…that is all.
DanK


----------



## byerbyer

Thanks all. I was leaning towards maple and I think I'll give a shot this go round.


----------



## TraylorPark

So after creeping on this thread since I joined I've decide it was time to finally jump in the discussion. I'm starting a new desk build for our home office. Below is the rough sketch up I used to illustrate to my wife and get her approval. I think the design could be considered kind of mid-century/artdeco because I plan on doing some kind of shaped feet for the pedestal bases. I've already got the Ash lumber for the pedestals and feet, but need to go back and get some 6/4 for the tops. I'm thinking a warm honey tone for the finish, but that's another decision that's above my pay grade and I'll have to make some samples with scrap for the boss to decide.

So far in the process I've got all the components rough cut and started the edge jointing, by hand so if anyone has a jointer their dying to get rid of in the northeast Ohio region I can help you out. The major question I have so far is the joinery for the pedestal boxes. I would really like to miter the top and bottom to the sides for the aesthetic quality from the front. However, I'm unsure if it will be strong enough to hold the weight since the feet will be inset a couple of inches from the side. I think that the main failure point would be for the sides to push out from the pressure on the top and bottom so my solution is to add framing inside for the drawers but also to attach the sides. Any thoughts? And I'll keep you updated with pictures and what not, because the woodworking porn is my favorite part of this site.

Thanks, 
Zach


----------



## Pezking7p

Hullo Zach.

I recommend using dados to attach the top and bottom. Or, if you are so inclined, dovetail the boxes.

I don't think you need to brace the inside of the boxes, 3/4" wood is pretty strong in box form.

Put a coat of finish on the entertainment center tonight. I'm missing a bunch of painters pyramids…where did I put those? Anyway I realize I forgot to make shelves, lol.


----------



## Iguana

Zach,

I think you are right.to question the durability of a pure miter joint in that application. And it doesn't really matter where the feet are placed. I would use a spline running most of the length of the joint to add some mechanical.resistance to the forces acting on the joint - but the spline is a bit tricky to make as the grain orientation needs to be the short way to match the grain orientation of the top/bottom/sides of the carcase. 2 or 3 biscuits/short dominos in each joint would be almost as effective and likely eassier to create if you have the tools.

For extra credit, the hidden mitered dovetail joint would be ideal…


----------



## jmartel

Hardware installed and doors hung. Still need to mount the crown molding and finish making the main panel that holds the mattress.


----------



## DanKrager

You been wearing flannel again haven't you JFlannel. That's just neat.
DanK


----------



## jmartel

Apparently not enough. I didn't plan the cuts in the molding right and now I have to remake a piece ~18" long because it's cut in the wrong orientation and not long enough to cut again. Oh well.

Doors are all soft-close hinges. Figured I'd spend the extra money on nicer hinges since they have a newborn and eventually the kid will start playing with the doors. Better to not have them slam shut on her.


----------



## Pezking7p

Jmart , this will be painted, yah? It's coming along nicely!

So, I sanded my entertainment center tonight after the first coat of finish. Took me 45 minutes just to sand? I didn't even wipe off dust. I guess if I want to get a coat of finish on in a night it's going to take me 2.5 hrs. Or maybe recruit mrs pez….


----------



## jmartel

Painted, yes. They picked some weird super dark purple that I'm not a fan of. But, I'm not paying for it, so it's whatever they want.


----------



## Pezking7p

Lol. Rolling or spraying?


----------



## jmartel

Spraying. I've got a HF HVLP gun that I use occasionally.


----------



## ToddJB

You have a pancake compressor, right? Can you get acceptable results with that? I've not tried it, but most reviews say you need a minimum of around 30gal.


----------



## jmartel

Nope. I picked up a 20 gallon compressor before I started the project.

I used my little compressor for a little while, but it was only spraying things like boxes. So nothing that needs a ton of air.


----------



## TraylorPark

A little progress on the desk. I have all the rough sized pieces edge jointed and got a couple of the larger panels glued and in clamps last night. I'm going to give Mark's idea a roll and use biscuits on the mitered joints. Oh, I also made a decision on the feet/legs. The pedestal/boxes are going to sit 4" off the floor and the feet will be 4 sided tapers splayed at an angle to project out from under the box a couple of inches and also be set to protrude directly at the corner (at least I hope that's how they work). I'm hopeful I can get this done by the end of January, I only get about an hour a night in the shop and with no heat out there yet I'll be hauling things to the basement for glue ups and finishing.


----------



## wormil

Little walnut table or sewing desk.


----------



## Iguana

Nice desk, Rick. Good job on picking the walnut.


----------



## Pezking7p

Trailor, I love your fancy cauls. You can get a lot done in an hour if you plan your tasks ahead of time!

Rick, I love the gain matching in the feet. Desk looks nice. I'm in Greensboro, so, howdy, neighbor.


----------



## wormil

Thanks guys and howdy Dan.


----------



## Pezking7p

Shameless self promotion: the entertainment center is done! I'm already wracking my brain for a coffee table design and I'll be drawing up some ideas in the next day or two. Couldn't have done this with out the support, help, and inspiration of everyone here.


----------



## TraylorPark

Really nice entertainment center Dan! I think the size of the top justifies the purchase of a larger TV to put on there.

As for the fancy cauls, they were copied from someone on here, but I'm drawing a blank on who. I choose that design over the simpler curved 2×4s because these sit flat on the bench and don't require using any precious clamps. They are just some 1x pine from the orange store with some 1/2" carriage bolts and wing nuts.


----------



## DanKrager

That's an eye catcher, Dan.

Hint: Get rid of the TV. More woodworking time and money for tools….Put a nice flower bouquet there in a wooden bowl you carved.

DanK


----------



## Pezking7p

Mr Traylor, I need to make some cauls like that, I've been getting killed on panel glue ups lately. Taking forever to flatten them.

Also, I just bought the darn TV, and I bought it because of the new entertainment center! Previously we had a 32", above is a 50". I think 55" would be OK in my living room but it would border on too large (our living room is only 10" wide). I guess in retrospect the table is quite large for that TV, but I'm planning on having it a lifetime…my house not so much. When I move to a place (or build) with a bigger living room I'll have the right stand for a 60+ inch tv.

I should move the TV and just put flowers on it like you say, Dan. Then tell the wife I thought we could spend more quality time without the TV. I'll video her reaction and post it here, lol.


----------



## wormil

I like that the tv stand is not too bulky. They are often built as if they were to hold a tube tv.


----------



## bobasaurus

Making an enormous tenon:










Still have to make the mortise/breadboard end that will attach to the table top.

I've been wondering recently how wood expansion works with mortise and tenon joinery on cross grain. When making a table base or chair with fixed/tight mortises and tenons, won't the wood want to move but can't? Does this cause cracking, or are the dimensions usually small enough to not worry?


----------



## Pezking7p

Wood expansion for oak is, say 0.25% per % moisture change. Depending on grain orientation of the joints the impact is different, but, for instance, oak fails in the long-grain direction at about 0.7% change in dimension (this is the orientation you were describing in a chair rail). So you're only about 30% of the way to failure in that situation. In other grain orientations, the failure happens at smaller deformations, but the difference in dimension is smaller as well. Tenon thickness, for instance, expands at the same rate as the mortise thickness in a face-frame type orientation, so even though the tenon is expanding, the mortise is expanding and there is no extra strain on the joint in that direction.

That's the mechanics portion of the problem, but in reality people have been making these joints for hundreds of years without failure, so I think you're safe. It is an interesting thought experiment, though.


----------



## CL810

Allen, I can't tell how big the piece is in your picture.


----------



## Pezking7p

For coffee tables like this, are drawers typically on both sides or only one side?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Pez- usually the drawers are only on one side. It's not very often that folks would access drawers on both sides. But, it's custom….put 'em on both sides if you see fit.

Allan. The size of tenons in various applications is always something to consider. If they're gonna be to big, I split them up like this:









And, I pegged the tenons on the chair crest rails today…


----------



## bobasaurus

Thanks for the m&t info. Red, I like your idea of splitting the tenons so each one has a smaller total movement range. The chair looks great.

The tenon I posted is about 14" long. The stock is 8/4 walnut. Sucker is going to move, so I'm aiming for extra wide mortises and slots/pegs for a breadboard-end-style attachment. Kind of a pain to make, though.


----------



## derekcohen

For those following the build of my lingerie chest …

This is the start of the second stage in this build. Now that the carcase and drawer blades/runners are completed, it is time to start on the bow front drawers.

The drawers are complex as they call for compound angles and dovetails. The design may be improved, and I welcome comments about this and the methodology.

This chapter provides a pictorial on the design and construction I have come up with so far. Pine is used in this test case (where Jarrah fronts and Tasmanian Oak sides will be used in the final build). However, the construction is for real.

The link is here (too many photos to post on the forum): http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/DesigningTheDrawers.html










Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## jmartel

Pez, my coffee table only has them on one side.


----------



## Pezking7p

Thanks for the drawer info, guys. I was hoping they would only be on one side because it saves me half the work of making drawers and keeps the drawers from being tiny. I'm off to the lumber store now. Thinking this is going to be a pretty quick build.

Red, what dia. dowels? 3/16? Those chairs are going to be works of art. It amazes me how much work goes into a chair like that, but no one considers it until they have to build one.

Derek, what a difficult build. I believe I would do some weird stuff to fit those drawers. That piece is going to be gorgeous. Hopefully it gets plenty of lingerie in it


----------



## Hammerthumb

Wow Derek! Read your blog. I did dovetails on a bowed front on this chest.



















I understand the compound angles that the bow front adds, but you have increased the difficulty of having the compound angles presented by the slanted sides.

Bravo! Well done. Can hardly wait to see the next installment!


----------



## Hammerthumb

By the way Red, I have not been able to post much lately but I have been watching the progress on the chairs. They are looking real sweet!. How much longer until finishing?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Allen, 14" is a pretty big tenon. Prolly better split that bugger into 2 or 3 tenons.

Pez- those are 1/4" walnut dowels. I've never gotten crazy enough to make my own. They're only a couple bucks at the woodworking store. The dowels will vary a bit. I always test on a scrap and try to use a bit that is 1/64" undersized for a snug fit. Believe it or not, I've got a big HF brad point I've been using for years. Eyeing some LV bits though. 
Chairs are a lot of hours. It's been interesting having the clients follow my build on social media. I'm pretty sure they understand the cost now.

Paul. Just starting the sculpted seats now- a first for me. Hoping to be putting finish on the chairs by the end of the year. Then, I'll put them downstairs and start on the table. That won't take nearly as long.


----------



## BigRedKnothead




----------



## Pezking7p

Let the grinding commence!

I have a few LV bits, they are very nice, but I've never used anything else so maybe the HF ones are just as nice? I guess straightness is probably what you pay for more than anything, which doesn't matter a lot to me as I don't have a drill press.

So I was all fired up to get a lot of work done on the coffee table today (I think it will be a fast build), but then I realized I still needed to cut and finish a plywood back for my entertainment center. So I'm spraying rattle can lacquer on it now. I must say the lacquer is pretty easy to use. I'd be scared to spray on anything other than simple, flat surfaces, though. Maybe one day.

On a similar note, I also decided that building a tack trunk for my wife was a priority over the coffee table, so I bought a huge pile of sapele to build a copy of Darell Peart's G&G blanket chest. Man this stuff is heavy, but holy cow it's like every piece has amazing grain, is 8-10 inches wide, and FLAT.


----------



## bobasaurus

Red, I've already cut it into three smaller full-depth tenons, with a shallow tenon running the whole length. Sure is a lot of work doing things this large.


----------



## jmartel

Pez, I'm a huge fan of QS Sapele. Love the stuff. Ribbon figure looks amazing, it's not super expensive (less than or equal to cherry for me), and works well.


----------



## Pezking7p

Jmart, I did not opt to buy any QS stuff except for a few small pieces for trim, breadboards, etc. The rest has those big, sweeping grain figures that look like ocean waves. I hope this doesn't clash with the G&G lines.


----------



## lateralus819

Red- Really digging that shiny tool by the pencil.

Is that Lie Nielsens much anticipated radius marker?!


----------



## ShaneA

Better take it back Pez. If it isn't QS…it is crap. Just kidding…kind of.


----------



## byerbyer

Chairs are looking sweet, Red. Hope the back is feeling better as well.

Can't wait to see that ribbon Sapele Pez. That stuff is purdy…


----------



## lateralus819

Pez what did you pay for that? 4/4, 8/4?

curious how my supplier stacks up in terms of price.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Chairs are looking good, Big Red One-can't wait to see them finished!


----------



## Pezking7p

http://hardwoodstore.com/lumber-prices

I think the prices are reasonable. Sometimes the stock is pretty picked over, though. The cherry today sucked but the sapele was good.


----------



## lateralus819

Cool. Mines just about as much.

I love sapele. Stuff looks phenominal. Smells amazing and has to be the easiest wood to work that I've dealt with. Almost like working pine it seems.










My kitchen table I built with it. I just randomly picked those too. We don't use it currently. I half thought of cutting it up for the lumber to re-use it. My wife said "But I like it!". Personally I think it is too small. I wish it was a bit longer. A mess up on the tenons for the BB ends had me shortening it a few inches.


----------



## Iguana

The table shown in my avatar was built with sapele. I've used it on a number of projects, currently building a large dining table with it. Lovely to work with, even if it is heavy. Agree with lateralus - smells good, too.


----------



## Mosquito

I used some sapele for the first time for a saw tote, and I agree with the above statements 









I've also used a fair bit of quilted sapele veneer too, and that worked well with hammer veneering


----------



## Pezking7p




----------



## Pezking7p

Damn Mos, that handle really sparkles. I'm hoping for that level of sparkle on the chest. Whats the finish?

So after my shame and sadnes with the chalky glue, I put together my box joint jig for the G&G trunk. These "fingers" are wider than my dado stack, so I couldn't set up a normal box joint jig. I didn't readily find anyone who was cutting full joints on the table saw, so I came up with my own method for cutting box joints which are wider than your dado stack.

STEP 1: 
Decide how wide your fingers are going to be, then divide this number by two and set up your dado stack for that width. (I guess if you were doing really wide fingers, you could divide by three or four or five, you would just have to make an extra key for each extra dado blade thickness you add). Then, using the dado, cut a slot in an auxiliary fence and make a key for your dado slot. This part is exactly like making a normal box joint jig…I won't go into exactly how to do this here as there are probably thousands of how-to's.

STEP 2:
Now you'll need to make two keys for your fence. One key will be a single key, the second key will be a double-thickness key. Like so:









STEP 3: 
Now to set the distance from the key to the blade, you need to use 4 pieces of key stock as the spacer. I actually ended up tuning my distance to be about 0.003" closer to the blade to get the fit I wanted. I used both my keys plus some leftover key stock to do the spacing. Then I just screwed the fence onto my dado sled's fence to hold it in place. I used a screw through the fence to hold the keys in place, and to let me easily swap out my keys.










STEP 4:
Now on to the cutting. Start with the single key in the keyhole and start with only your 'A' boards. 'A' boards will mate with 'B' boards. Cut all your 'A' boards with the single key just as you would a normal box joint. 









STEP 5:
After cutting all the cuts with the single key, switch to the double key and proceed again just as you would for a normal box joint.

First Cut:









Second Cut:









STEP 6:
Before removing the double key, make your first cut on the 'B' boards using the 'A' board as a spacer.









STEP 7:
Switch to the single key, and use the 'A' board as a spacer again to finish the first cut on the 'B' board. Notice how the 'A' board is pushed all the way up against the key.









STEP 8:
From this point you can complete all the double key cuts on your 'B' boards, and you're done. 


















All Done.










Sorry for the randomness but it took me a while to sort out how to do this and I wanted to share it here, and also make a record so I can follow along


----------



## Mosquito

I just used 3-4 coats of natural danish oil, and then a couple of coats of shellac over top of that once it had cured


----------



## lateralus819

Thats looks complicated Pez, lol.

I hand cut all my box joints for my G&G chest. Just used the TS to remove the waste as using a chisel was taking forever.


----------



## DanKrager

Pez, that looks like it will get the job done! It's gonna take awhile to get the rhythm, and if you don't do it for awhile, it's start over! At least for me it is… 
Good luck and stay safe!
DanK


----------



## Pezking7p

It's just the first cut on the 'B' boards that's tricky. But yah it is tricky so I partly wrote it down so I could reference it later, as I won't be able to cut any of those until a week and a half from now. But when I do, I'll get all 44 fingers cut in about an hour I reckon. Then about 8 hours of rounding over with sand paper. Lol


----------



## lateralus819

Pez- Get this guy for rounding the fingers.

http://www.amazon.com/Gator-Finishing-7800-Step-123-Project/dp/B001NPDK9Y

Saved me a LOT of time. It's small and compact, but big enough to run down the whole length so the fingers are uniform. Just take heavy passes on the outsides first and then move it in to the center. Worked amazing. Best $10 spend yet lol.


----------



## Pezking7p

Yes! I was looking for something exactly like this earlier today. Thanks, lat.


----------



## TheFridge

Pez, instead of using a second spacer to cut finger joints. You can put the first cut on your first board over the fixed finger to cut the very end of the second board. William Ng does it and it works like a champ. Just another way bud.

Edit: anyone have a good grain filling method without actually using grain filler?


----------



## rad457

*Edit: anyone have a good grain filling method without actually using grain filler*
cut shims from wood cut offs.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Edit: anyone have a good grain filling method without actually using grain filler?
> 
> - TheFridge


I know I've heard Mark Spagnuolo talk about using danish oil and sanding a slurry. I've never tried that. The only method that has give a surface and look I like was building up heavy coats of poly and sanding it back….essentially filling it with poly.

There is a grain filler that is clear called Aqua Coat. I'd be tempted to try that stuff. The colored grain fillers look like poo imo.

Pez's box joint post made me feel like a simpleton ***********************************. lawz.


----------



## rad457

With all these nice projects,
Thought I should post my BIG projects, custom furniture for a whole house, Birch, maple, Oak and some White Pine. Now they want maple hardwood flooring in every room!


----------



## Pezking7p

> Pez, instead of using a second spacer to cut finger joints. You can put the first cut on your first board over the fixed finger to cut the very end of the second board. William Ng does it and it works like a champ. Just another way bud.
> 
> Edit: anyone have a good grain filling method without actually using grain filler?
> 
> - TheFridge


Do you have a link to his video? I only watched the video where he makes normal sized joints. When I tried to lay it out that way I ended up a half a finger off. I was sorting out some other things though so I may have goofed it up somehow else. I would prefer to do it the way you describe.


----------



## Pezking7p

> *Edit: anyone have a good grain filling method without actually using grain filler*
> cut shims from wood cut offs.
> 
> - Andre


I tried sanding with Danish oil. It didn't fill up pores very well but I only did one round of sanding.

Kind of a dumb question, but are you sure you want to fill the end grain? I find a lot of holes and pores soften and fill a lot during the finishing process.


----------



## Pezking7p

Lol yah sure red. You're so *********************************** and simple with your LN planes and your pegged walnut chairs.


----------



## TheFridge

Nevermind pez, I'm a tard and don't know how to look at pictures and read all the words.

For grain filling, it pertains mainly to mahogany handles I've been turning where you can feel the grain. Wax fills it but wears off quickly. After BLO and burnishing.


----------



## JayT

I've done the Danish Oil and sanding a couple times with good results.


----------



## Pezking7p

Haha, yah fridge that's the video I used to make my jig. But I didn't find anyone making joints with fingers wider than a dado blade, hence my complicated technique.

I'm feeling the itch for my shop. .


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Lol yah sure red. You re so *********************************** and simple with your LN planes and your pegged walnut chairs.
> 
> - Pezking7p


I know right? I'm quite the simpleton.

Nice work Andre. My girls saw your barbie furniture on the screen….and they're gettin ideas.


----------



## Pezking7p

What diameter pin goes in a Barbie chair?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> What diameter pin goes in a Barbie chair?
> 
> - Pezking7p


Easy, toothpicks. I've even got some Barbie-sized Jet machines for the task. 









Or is that more of my photo tricks and tomfoolery?


----------



## summerfi

I prefer using hand tools myself.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Working on the sculpted chair seats. Started the day with these:









Cut them out to pattern, then outlined the recess:









I decided to use a router to hog waste out about 2" away from the perimeter of the recess. The advantage of this was uniform depth. 









Then it was on to some power carving to blend the recess area. I didn't spring for one of those pricey carbide carvers. I had a harbor freight one (in background). It worked ok. A little agressive, and it was too flat- not dished enough for the the slope I wanted. So, I just switched to a 50 disc. It was dustier, but I preferred the results. I'll knock the rest of them out tomorrow. I know I can use a curved spokeshave some….but it's gonna be a big dusty mess.


----------



## CFrye

Making great progress, Red! 
Speaking of chairs…
Have you all seen bkap's videos on how to build a Maloof-style rocking chair? 
Link


----------



## jmartel

And I believe the actual woodworking is finished on the murphy bed. Installed the crown molding last night. Tonight is assembly and hardware install, saturday is sanding/nail hole filling, and sunday is paint. Delivery/install next saturday.


----------



## bobasaurus

Red, are the seat boards held together with hide glue? Will it hold up to the weight over time?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Candy, I have seen bkaps contributions. That's the kinda guy I'd like to spend a couple days with in his shop. Pick his brain a bit.



> Red, are the seat boards held together with hide glue? Will it hold up to the weight over time?
> 
> - bobasaurus


That's a common misconception Allen. I'll defer to The Schwarz:
Strong As the Union


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Handsome stuff their Jmart.

Gotta love those days when a seldom used tool (curved bottom spokey) becomes the most useful tool in your shop. 









Gettin there. My shop es muy dusty. 








I'll blog it when I get time.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Looks good Red. By the way, you need to sweep your floor.


----------



## jmartel

I wonder how the Titebond/Franklin stuff compares to Old Brown Glue. I'm using hot hide glue on my nightstands that are in limbo at the moment, but will get liquid hide glue for the bed build after that. Need a longer open time than HHG has for the headboard/footboard assemblies.

I need to buy/make a flat bottomed spokeshave. I received one in the last swap, but had to pass it on since I never was able to get my scraper plane working to send out. Those 2 are still sitting waiting to be worked on.


----------



## theoldfart

JSpoke, I have a 151 body with adjusting screws if your interested.


----------



## ToddJB

Take him up on it, JLucky. If you've just got one, that's the one.


----------



## CL810

Interesting furniture company in Portland:  The Joinery


----------



## Mean_Dean

> Interesting furniture company in Portland:  The Joinery
> 
> - CL810


I've been there, and if you get the chance, it's well worth a visit!

They have a large woodshop, with a smaller, 2-story showroom attached. Upstairs is a Juliette balcony, from which you can watch the guys milling and building the furniture.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"The Joinery". What a brilliant name for a furniture shop. Added to the list.

Out of curiosity, performed some failure tests on hide glue panel cut offs. Broke at the weak spots of the wood rather than the glue lines. Just like PVA. 











> Take him up on it, JLucky. If you ve just got one, that s the one.
> 
> - ToddJB


I asked for a LV spokey for Xmas. Love my LN…but I long for the no151 blade adjustment.


----------



## builtinbkyn

I tried this on some cabinet doors - white oak ply - and it worked pretty well. I think Mark got that method from someone else. Saw an old YT video on it and it wasn't Mark.

I used some tung oil for a few sanding sessions and then did a final sanding with no oil. Has a few coats of wiping poly on top which was sanded between coats.

Not sure how much you can tell from the pic, but it did bring out the figuring of the grain really well.












> Edit: anyone have a good grain filling method without actually using grain filler?
> 
> - TheFridge
> 
> I know I ve heard Mark Spagnuolo talk about using danish oil and sanding a slurry. I ve never tried that. The only method that has give a surface and look I like was building up heavy coats of poly and sanding it back….essentially filling it with poly.
> 
> There is a grain filler that is clear called Aqua Coat. I d be tempted to try that stuff. The colored grain fillers look like poo imo.
> 
> Pez s box joint post made me feel like a simpleton ***********************************. lawz.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


----------



## Gixxerjoe04

The Joinery, pretty cool website and nice stuff, would be cool to do that for a living.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Learned a lot from my first set of sculpted seats. I was able to muster through with the tools and knowledge I had. If I delve any more into chair making, I will pick up a quality travisher. I nearly bought one of Galbert's at Handworks, but, like most good tools. they're pricey.

Galbert Travisher video series. Well worth the time:





Edit: Cool Seat carving video….since I'm on my kick.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I wonder how the Titebond/Franklin stuff compares to Old Brown Glue. I m using hot hide glue on my nightstands that are in limbo at the moment, but will get liquid hide glue for the bed build after that. Need a longer open time than HHG has for the headboard/footboard assemblies.
> - jmartel


The only difference between Old Brown and Titebond is that Old Brown gels at room temp. TB will gel in a cold shop (I keep mine in the laundry room just inside). Either cab be made ready by sitting in some hot tap water for a short time.


----------



## john2005

My first butterfly inlay to fix a crack from a too tight tenon. I wish I would have spent more time looking back at the butterfly design. I thought I had it memorized, but it just didn't look right. Bob was over and called them "bats" and since these bunks are for boys, bats seem more appropriate. Live and learn I guess.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ha, my first artistic butterflies weren't so hot either. We can't all be Jinlay. Nice thing about inlays though, you can always make a bigger one and overlay if it bugs you.

Bed looks good too. Wedged tenons were a good idea over the bolts.

Sweet lookin mallet in that first pic


----------



## jmartel

I just stole the idea from someone else. You did yours right, Red, except forgot the little notches in the sides of the wings if I remember right. That was the only difference that I added from yours.

Got another commission tonight. Won't be starting on it until the spring. But basically a friend of mine wants a game table similar to this one:









http://geekchichq.com/collections/made-to-order/products/emissary-deposit

No idea on wood selection, size, details, etc yet. Told him he has to wait until after my wife gets her bed, or else she is liable to cut him.


----------



## john2005

> Ha, my first artistic butterflies weren t so hot either. We can t all be Jinlay. Nice thing about inlays though, you can always make a bigger one and overlay if it bugs you.
> 
> Bed looks good too. Wedged tenons were a good idea over the bolts.
> 
> Sweet lookin mallet in that first pic
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Didnt think about going over bigger. Long as this project is taking though, I think I will live with them for now.

And yes, the mallet is nice. Perfect for this type of thing.


----------



## jmartel

I need a bigger garage. I can only spray half the stuff at a time. First coat is on the cabinets and center panel.










I'll do one more coat tonight, and then it will probably be finished. It is pretty well covered right now, and the second coat should be enough to finish it off. Tomorrow will be the center cabinet pieces, shelves, and doors.


----------



## BHolcombe

Sorry for the long pause gents.

Some awesome looking projects around here! I'll humbly submit my current work I progress. Building a jewelry cabinet for mum.


----------



## TheFridge

JSpray. I hate spraying paint. I hate brushing it even more.


----------



## jmartel

BHolcombe, that is turning out fantastic. I've been following it over on SMC. I'm not even a fan of modern furniture like that, but your piece is turning out amazingly.

Fridge, I actually don't mind spraying it turns out. My gun isn't that great, but the finish seems to be turning out ok. Letting it dry for another hour or two, then some light sanding and coat #2. I suck at brushing, so that's not an option.


----------



## Pezking7p

Beds are looking beefy, John. I like how the inlays look.

Old brown glue: I wish I knew that before I bought a bottle. I would have looked harder for cheap tite bond hide glue.

Jmart, I feel your pain. I spent a whole set of kitchen cabinets figuring out how to spread out all my parts for spraying. I ended up using the whole front yard and about 100 painters pyramids.

So my plan is tack trunk, then coffee table, then side table, then a thos moser chair. I'm really looking ahead to this chair (I know it's a few months away) and wondering about the curves. I know moser almost certainly steam bends these, but after reading im really wondering if this is the best choice for me over bent lamination. I have no equipment for either technique. I would either need to build a steamer and buy bending straps or I would need a bandsaw (and all the accoutrements) to cut lamination strips.

Thoughts, opinions? I'm nervouse for building something where I'll spend as much time building forms and templates as I will on joinery. I don't want to muck it up.

Km also going to need help making the back. Haven't figured that one out yet.


----------



## Pezking7p

Looks just about done BHolcome. Can't wait to see it with finish.


----------



## LJRay

BHolcombe, 
That jewelery cabinet is a beaut. I don't think I'll show that to my wife quite yet. I know she'll want one.


----------



## jmartel

Pez, I have done neither steam bending or bent laminations yet, but my first go-to would be bent lamination. Biggest reasoning being that you don't have to worry about springback like you do in steam bending.

I really like those chairs from Moser as well. Just don't think they'd fit in to my house style.

And, it's Seattle, so surprise surprise, it's raining. No painting outside for me.


----------



## CL810

BHolcombe, very nice cabinet.


----------



## Pezking7p

Jmart, I'm worried less about spring back and more about destroying wood without the compression bending straps lee valley sells. I read up and they have me feeling like I need the straps to do any bending, but then I go online and find tons of videos of people bending wood without straps way outside their recommendations, and I wonder if it's all hooey.

For the case of bent lamination: Bandsaw? Who doesn't want one.


----------



## TheFridge

Anything glue out there, besides hide glue, that cleans up easy and doesn't eff up finishes?


----------



## jmartel

Pez, just add up the wood and material for the seat, and the cost of a bandsaw, and then show that to the wife next to the pricetag of the chair. I'm sure it will work.

I don't think you need special clamps. Just a lot of little ones. The 6" F clamps from harbor freight work well and are only $3 on sale. Buy a bunch of those.


----------



## daddywoofdawg

Does it take a special "finish gun" to spray?I've never sprayed with a compressor.but I do have a small gun (never used) and a compressor.


----------



## jmartel

Daddy, I'm only spraying with a cheap gravity feed HVLP from Harbor Freight. Works just fine it seems. Probably not as good as a $400 gun, but it's good enough for my purposes.


----------



## DanKrager

Daddy, I'm with Jspray on this one. Price of spray gun has little to do with quality of finish laid down, especially using gravity HVLP. I have a VERY expensive Binks gun that I usually keep attached to a pressure pot and recently bought a VERY cheap set (<$50) of three gravity HVLP from (of all places) Walmart just to get the cute little touch up gun. These are in addition to the mid-range HVLP by Porter Cable. I am very impressed with the quality of machining on the Campbell-Housefield (sp?) from Walmart. I find myself using the PC HVLP the most because it hangs on the rack with Deft in it all the time…no clean up. The touch up gun behaves the same and is a dream to use. The Binks gathers dust until I choose to use the spatter nozzle for "distressing".

My shop is cold so I keep the loaded gun with finish in the warm area (the bathroom) and warm the piece to be finished under the "flash" heater I have. Appropriately thinned (about 10% from the can) it sprays beautifully and builds quickly and dries acceptably fast, especially under the radiant heat of the "flash heater". YMMV.
DanK

Edit: I meant to add that I have the really cheap old standard siphon guns that I will never use again…maybe for insecticide, weed killer or something like that.


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks Gents!


----------



## Pezking7p

> Pez, just add up the wood and material for the seat, and the cost of a bandsaw, and then show that to the wife next to the pricetag of the chair. I m sure it will work.
> 
> I don t think you need special clamps. Just a lot of little ones. The 6" F clamps from harbor freight work well and are only $3 on sale. Buy a bunch of those.
> 
> - jmartel


I'm not worried about Mrs. Pez. She's usually the one encouraging me to spend all my cash on tools, and I'm the one saying "I can get by without that, maybe next year". If it was up to her, I'd have a 3hp sawstop, 17" bandsaw, 18" planer, 12" jointer, and a 5hp dust collection system all snuggled into a brand new 1200 sqft shop. The chair project just puts a sense of urgency in to buying a band saw, instead of lazily looking for a deal every few weeks.

The clamps I speak of are here: http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=42173&cat=1,45866

They're not really what you'd expect until you read about them in the steam bending guide. The guide makes it seem futile to even attempt steam bending without these clamps, and indeed I see a lot of people on youtube using these straps (including doucette and wolfe). However, I also see others just using a POS form and 3-4 clamps, hence my quandry.

It makes me wonder if the lee valley guide is more geared towards people who are doing extreme bends, like making circles or windsor chairs, as opposed to gentle curves. Maybe I can do a test run early next year with some scraps and see how it goes?


----------



## jmartel

I've never seen that strap before. Interesting. And if you're doing the normal clamp and form, then use a lot more than 3-4 clamps. Every 3-4 inches seems to be what I have seen when I see people do it. Pretty common in the wooden boat builders who do bent laminations for gunwales and bent frames and such. That's why those HF 6" bar clamps are great. Work well, super cheap, and you aren't going to be doing any bending that requires a larger capacity. Plus, you can use them for more than just bending stuff.

If you have a need for outdoor chairs, have you seen the deck chairs that were on the Titanic? Similar in form to that Moser chair and would probably fit well with the theme you seem to have going.










I really like them, but the wife wants normal Adirondack chairs when I move to outdoor stuff.


----------



## CL810

Pez, for the bent laminations are you going to use a vacuum bag or let the glue set while clamped? If you want to use a vacuum bag, you can save a lot by picking up a HVAC vacuum pump off CL. I like the vacuum bags because of their versatility, i.e. veneers. Either way you'll make a lot of forms when you shape wood.

Steam bending you'll also need forms and will have to experiment on the spring back. I don't think the arms will present a challenge, but the legs may.

I've only made one piece of furniture with bent lamination and I used a vacuum bag and I like it because you can rely on the outcome. I took a class this fall about shaping wood. We did a bunch of steam bending and used the strap clamps, but we were doing much more severe bending. My guess is you wouldn't need the strap clamps for the chair.

Get the band saw. You'll wonder how you ever got along without it. Get one with at least 10" resaw capacity.

Also, Michael Fortune has a lot on the web (FWW and you tube) about bent lamination.

Now, one more thing, get the band saw.


----------



## johnstoneb

You can do the same thing as that strap clamp with a piece of 16 or 18 guage sheet metal. You primarily need the support for more complex and sharp bends, you need the metal to support the full width of the wood. As Jmart says you need clamps every 4" or so depending on the thickness, severity and complexity of the bend. That LV strap is only good when clamping a simple bend.
You definitely want to practice on something.


----------



## Pezking7p

Thanks very much for the input, gents. I think I m a good enough process engineer to make consistent results with steam bending. When you speak of springback, are you referring to situations in which a drying form was used? Was green (20% moisture) wood used? I did learn quite a bit about lignin during my research, though, which helped me understand the whole process a lot better.


----------



## Pezking7p

Edit: lol


----------



## CL810

The spring back comment was more of a comment in the lecture part of the class.

Did you come across this book?









We were bending ash when we used the strap clamp. We had a couple of blow outs before the outcome in the last pic. The clamp also helps with keeping the wood closer to the original dimensions. Board will tend to lengthen when steam bending.


----------



## johnstoneb

That is the type of bend that the strap clamp would shine at. You will have some spring back on any bend It will vary according to wood type, thickness, and complexity of the bend.
The little bit of bending I have done making laminated fishing nets. I would bend the laminations all at the same time on the form and let dry. I would glue and clamp on the same form. The spring back after gluing was quite a bit less than when taking the unglued lamination out of the form.


----------



## Pezking7p

Very informative, guys!

In this day and age, I tend to avoid books where possible because they tend to be a little broad and repetitive, as well as expensive, for my tastes. I'm open to good books but my first line of defense is usually videos and the interwebs. Then I come here to get less opinionated views, especially from you guys who have been working wood for so long (no Stef).


----------



## DanKrager

My understanding of the purpose of a strap on the outside of a bent curve in solid wood is to force compression of the fibers on the INSIDE of the curve rather than permitting the inside fibers to stretch and splinter out the outside. This requires the ends of the stick to be trapped between stops secured to the strap. Gentle curves may not require a strap. In laminated layup the strap helps spread the force and keep the bend a smooth curve. No one has mentioned this yet, so I thought I would.

I like bending forms more than straps. It's hard to do a compound or reverse curve with a strap. The chair rings I make for chair joint reinforcement are made from thin sliced ash (green or moistened) laminated 3/4" thick into a form to fit inside the seat rails. When cured, it slips inside the four rails and gets glued to all four rails during assembly. So the form is four straight sides with about 3" radius curves in each corner and the width of the lamination is almost the same as the rail height. The form consists of layers of particle board, one outside piece and four internal pieces that draw the laminations snug to the outer form.

I made myself a 5 ft x 5 ft workbench accessory that consists of heavy slats spaced 3/8" apart between bread board ends so short heavy angle iron pieces can be placed along a curve intersecting the slots. These support a backer piece that smooths the pressure applied to the bend (solid or laminated) with clamps. It's turned out to be a useful universal piece. It's in storage and I can't find the picture…so it doesn't exist. I know the drill.
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Pez- +1 to:

- bent laminations with glue
- bending forms
- buy a bandsaw (cheapskate)

Not that I have any experience with steam bending, but every furniture maker I've seen make curved arms etc. these days uses glued lam. There's gotta be a reason. Ha!

Also, looking at that chair, I bet you could make both the arms and legs out of one big sweeping form. I can explain more later if your puny engineer mind isn't pickin' up what I puttin' down.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Also good lamination vid:


----------



## Pezking7p

DanK, pics or drawings on your bending table, please!

Red, check out doucette and wolfe bending their Windsor back on YouTube. I had the same thought about the arms/legs but I think the arms will need to have a larger radius than the legs, don't you think? Maybe it's not a big enough difference to matter.

Just when I had thought to go ahead with the steam bending you two come back with the suggestion to laminate.


----------



## DanKrager

Did I forget to mention spring back? Laminated bends are much more predictable in just how much they will spring back. Laminations generally have very little spring back if any, but the tighter the curve the more likely there will be some in my experience. Usually it's not enough to be a problem. 
Steam bending is more predictable within a given species, but varies greatly from species to species and to some extent how dry the wood was to start. Whats insidious is that not all the spring back of steaming will occur upon release from the clamps. It has the potential, if not cared for, to pull joints apart and do other undesirable things because the wood has retained some memory. Ammonia added to the steam water helps with that memory problem.

OK. I'll dig it out for pics.
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sigh. Pez, I knew I'd have to spoon-feed you. (lawl)

Big plywood form. Two in one:









Moser might steam bend those, but I'd be surprised. Probably another thing of preference, but most I talk to feel that glued lams are more consistent and stable.


----------



## Pezking7p

Not to mention I can do several bent laminations in a day on a single form, instead of needing multiple drying forms and waiting a week before removing from the forms.


----------



## Pezking7p

Downside of bent lamination is needing to start with thicker wood to achieve final thickness. Say 6/4 to get 1" laminated thickness.

What are the chances of seeing the lamination prices after gluing?


----------



## theoldfart

In my one experience with steam bending I used 3/8"white oak to make back slats for children chairs. Steaming was done using a fish poacher. BTW hot wet oak stinks!









Clamping was done with a form since I wanted the ends flat. I allowed the formed slats to remain in clamps overnight to limit springback and it worked









After drying and cooling









The final product


----------



## Pezking7p

Now my ignorance is really showing. Are you saying that I could make one layup and cut the thing in two to make an arm and a leg?


----------



## CFrye

Thanks for the explanation of the strap with the stop blocks on the ends, Dan. That cleared up how it prevents stretching.


----------



## DanKrager

Didn't dig it out, but did get a picture. I think the concept is clear…










The setup was to make some ribs for a toy covered wagon.
DanK


----------



## jmartel

I think that's the first time I've seen someone go through the effort of making a breadboarded top for holding a bending form. That's certainly commitment.


----------



## DanKrager

HA! True that might be Jnaive. It's not an original idea but it's been so long ago I don't remember where I saw the idea. I was in a stage where things had to serve more than one purpose or they couldn't stay. No matter how I looked at it, a bending jig is a bending jig, so the best it probably can do is be flexible enough to do more than one form!

Besides, it's on my round tuit bucket list to build a set of bent lamination deck recliners.
DanK


----------



## Pezking7p

Hey dude that's a really sweet setup. Daddy like.


----------



## CL810

Dan, that's a very interesting jig; never seen one like that before.


----------



## jmartel

Perfectly timed the amount of paint so that just as I was putting the second coat on the last door, I ran out.

That would be great, except I still have the other side on all the flat pieces. Off to Sherwin Williams again I guess.


----------



## DanKrager

For those of you who have mastered the dovetail joint and are looking to up your game….

I was searching for a method to join three logs at right angles. Not going to do this with a chainsaw. Keep looking….

DanK

Edit: It's always that way Jpaint.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> For those of you who have mastered the dovetail joint and are looking to up your game….
> 
> - Dan Krager


That looks like a pre-Topamax exercise ;-)


----------



## jmartel

One coat of paint on the other side of everything. Second coat goes on tonight. Tomorrow is reinstalling hardware and painting the cabinet backs (only really need one good coat of paint). Delivery Saturday morning. Then I can be done with this giant thing that tried to kill me.

Then, some quick christmas gifts, and back to the night stands.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Don't forget pics Jmart.


----------



## jmartel

I'm planning on grabbing a bunch once it's installed. Unfortunately the mattress apparently won't arrive until Monday, so that won't be in the photos.

I think I'm done with giant cabinet projects for a while. It's a lot more difficult in my small garage than standalone furniture. The entertainment center is pretty awesome, though.


----------



## RGtools

> Oh yea and this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart


I saw a very similar bench on the antiques roadshow…yes I watch that show. Now for your viewing pleasure

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/season/12/baltimore-md/appraisals/1971-george-nakashima-conoid-bench--200701A02


----------



## summerfi

Hmmm, I believe I could make one of those for $45,000.


----------



## DanKrager

One thing I've learned over the years, Bob, is that making and selling are two wildly different things. I make a lot of very nice stuff, but the market here is dry and I'm not a skilled salesman. I suspect this is typical of many woodworkers who think they can make a living at this… It turns out to be "all in the marketing", e.g. Ikea.

Before a bunch of selling advice dumps on me, let it be known I've worn out the techniques known to honest salesmen and have studied and implemented all the research I've encountered about selling this craft. There are very few legitimate leaves unturned here. I won't turn away a good advice, though.

DanK


----------



## summerfi

I hear ya Dan. I'm finding myself at that stage of life where it's kind of nice to discourage sales. Leaves more free time for me to do what I want. ;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'll make you one for 10K Bob. Just 'cause we're buds.

How's my sales pitch….ha!

Playin' hooky:


----------



## summerfi

OK Red. When you get it done and ship it to me, then I'll send you payment. You can trust a bud. ;-)


----------



## Pezking7p

That bench is crazy but that guy totally knew it was worth a crapload before he brought it to ARS

Red, it takes serous cojones to leave that plane balanced up there like that!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^That's not the first time I've been accused of having very… large…. cojones. lawlz.

A set of chairs feels like running a marathon. I've had two other couples hit me up for dining sets. I may need a break with an easy project first.


----------



## Pezking7p

Take the money and run, I say, and good on you for garnering business.

I've had a few people now hit me up at work for little projects but I've mostly turned them down. I'm worried people want to pay Walmart prices for my work.


----------



## jmartel

I know the feeling, Red. I have turned a couple people away recently. Need to finish stuff for myself before I take on additional projects. I did tell a friend I'd build him a table in the spring though.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Getting the dining chair blog caught up.

http://www.westfallwoodcraft.com/2015/12/dining-set-tutorial-4-glue-up-and-lower.html


----------



## Pezking7p

Dan, when you fit your bottom stretchers, is there a compound angle because the legs are angled in two directions? I couldn't really tell but it looked like the legs were square in the picture. Also, with the back legs being curved, how do you finagle a fit after cutting? Or is the curve so shallow that a straight cut will fit?

Chairs are looking sweet.

I spent all day with my rasp and some sandpaper, easing some corners on the G&G tack truck. I never thought you could sand so much in one day.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Pez- it's a compound angle because the base/seat is not square, AND the rear leg swoops back. The joint that meets the front leg is the same angle as the upper chair rails. Not compound on that one.

Also, the back leg is curved, but the curve is gentle enough that it doesn't make a difference where that little 1" joint meets with the lower stretcher. I did a little paring by hand to meet up some of the joints.


----------



## putty

Just looked at your blog Red, Great work on the chairs!


----------



## jmartel

Officially finished the murphy bed yesterday and installed it. Extremely relieved to be done with that. I dislike working with plywood. She did mention that later on next year they would want me to build them an entryway bench/cubby thing. So, probably another job in the fall.


----------



## Iguana

And hopefully the design would be something that isn't large enough to fall on you..


----------



## jmartel

It will be that large, but it won't have a giant rotating plywood panel rotating that is actively trying to tip it over. I got some time to figure it out.


----------



## john2005

Hot dang, those chairs are looking sweet!

Nice job on the bed Jmurphy. Looks good.

My boy like the "bat" inlays so much that he demanded more. But he wanted a butterfly cause he heard me call them that. I was thinking maybe like the Batman logo or something. But he insisted and so I obliged. I figured I could use the practice and if he doesn't like it in 10 years, it'll be a good object lesson…ha

It aint perfect but I like it better. Still a little refining of the shape to do. I also thought I had some 1/8" dowell for dots in the lower wings, but I couldn't find it. I will grab one and put them in before I finish it.


----------



## jmartel

Looking good, John.


----------



## Pezking7p

Looks great, John. You should inlay a pony for good measure.

Update on Mrs pez's tack trunk. Most of the trim work on the case is done. Need to do the breadboards for the top, then make the totes to go inside the trunk, then inlay ebony for about six days straight.



















The rail that the totes will slide on got a cloud lift.


----------



## jmartel

Pez, did you chisel those square for the plugs or did you use the special Veritas square punch tool? I got 2 of those but haven't gotten to use them yet.


----------



## Pezking7p

I used my hollow chisel mortiser for the 5/16" and 1/4" plugs. For the little guys I used 1/8" chisels. A few of the ones I did by hand are going to be a little bit hard to plug, but I think it's going to be a full day of plugging holes any way you cut it. I wish I could have used a square hole punch, but I did 4 different sized square holes, so not really practical.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Pez, didn't know if you'd seen my buddy Will and his ebony plug technique.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Last but not least, the captains chairs. They will have long, swooping, Maloofish backslats. And armrests, of course.










The humble 2×4 for the the mock-up.


----------



## DanKrager

I wish there was a like button for you Red. Those are boss.










DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Appreciated and timely Dan. My enthusiasm is waning. I just want to be done with these chairs.

Today I attempted to make those back slats with the ol' pattern routing technique. Out of habit I guess. The patter was giving me so much grief I thought, "shoot I could've just smoothed these with a spokeshave by now. There's only ten slats." I may have chucked the pattern across my shop. 









Just wasn't feeling it today. Tomorrow's another day.


----------



## jmartel

Looking good, Red. I share the frustrations with not wanting to finish projects. That's why I have 4 or 5 in various states of completion at any given time. Still have yet to do any chairs though. That's probably going to stay that way for a while longer.


----------



## summerfi

I like to have multiple little projects going at one time. That way when I get sick of doing something, I can do something else for awhile.


----------



## ToddJB

I'm a multiple project'er too, for the same reason Bob is. But my 90% personality and all the vast ideas I come with start adding up and I'm overwhelmed with too many irons in the fire.

I'm not sure I'll take on a set of chairs anytime soon, Red. With the cumulative hours I get in the shop and the pace I work it would take me 3 years to finish a set.

Persevere, my friend.


----------



## jmartel

My JDHD takes hold about halfway through a project and then I wander on to the next thing. It's not like how Bob mentioned that when you get frustrated you work on something else.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

My personality doesn't like to have multiple irons in the fire. I get really focused. Turning is a nice break. Maybe I should spin a little.

Think it has a little to do with relocating mid project. Feels like I've been working on these forever. I lost my timesheet in the move. If I had to guess, I'll put about 80 hours in these chairs in the end, maybe more. The details that set the chairs apart, are also time consuming.

I'll keep pluggin. Thanks for the encouragement.


----------



## Pezking7p

Red, I always question the amount of time I spend on my pieces (lol I talk like I've made a ton of things), and especially on the details, but I know that in the end when people say "wow" it's because of the attention to detail and not compromising. Also you're going to get paid so there's that, too.

I think a blanket chest might be the sweet spot for making money. I think if you were good at cutting dovetails you could put together a shaker chest in a few days, then finishing. Frame and panel might not be hard either.


----------



## jmartel

Shaker end tables would be a good way to make some easy money as well. Fairly simple, with the exception of fitting a drawer.


----------



## Pezking7p

Yah I spent a long time cutting half blinds, I think I could get faster. A drill press would help, too. Also this technique I saw where you use a sharpened scraper to extend your kerfs to the line.

But seriously, nice blanket chests are selling for 2500-3500.


----------



## theoldfart

Don't rule out six board chests. Simple to make, rabets and cut nails and finished with milk paint.


----------



## TheFridge

I find an ounce of meth and some free time in the shop can be really productive.


----------



## jmartel

> Yah I spent a long time cutting half blinds, I think I could get faster. A drill press would help, too. Also this technique I saw where you use a sharpened scraper to extend your kerfs to the line.
> 
> But seriously, nice blanket chests are selling for 2500-3500.
> 
> - Pezking7p


I hadn't seen that scraper trick before. Found a video on youtube after you mentioned it. Going to have to try that on my nightstands. Thanks.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> Yah I spent a long time cutting half blinds, I think I could get faster. A drill press would help, too. Also this technique I saw where you use a sharpened scraper to extend your kerfs to the line.
> 
> But seriously, nice blanket chests are selling for 2500-3500.
> 
> - Pezking7p
> 
> I hadn t seen that scraper trick before. Found a video on youtube after you mentioned it. Going to have to try that on my nightstands. Thanks.
> 
> - jmartel


Do you have a link? My search terms missed it. Thanks.


----------



## yuridichesky

Hi Bob, here's the link: 



 (though there are many more out there).


----------



## Pezking7p

That's the video! Sorry I should have posted it.

Every time I chop on my bench I think about his joke: "and if you do this over a dog hole….well, you'll only do that once."


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Actually, if you ever cut dovetails on a nice, belly height joinery bench…..you'll never cut them on your regular bench again;-)

The card scraper trick works, but plan on trashing a card scrap and keeping it for that task. Schwarz cuts way past his line on the inside (drawer backs), I just can't bring myself to do that.


----------



## CB_Cohick

Aw shoot, bless my depleted checking account. That card scraper trick is going to bug me enough to finally take the scraper plunge. I have been avoiding it, but I have not been steered the wrong direction yet from any of you fine folks. Maybe I can sell off a few grandkids to cover it


----------



## summerfi

I don't know why I haven't thought of the scraper trick before. It looks like a winner. I always have scraps of saw steel laying around, and that should work perfect.


----------



## CL810

Rousseau's half blinds look just like mine only different. ;-)


----------



## Mosquito

That's the trick I use when I do halfblinds too, except like Bob mentions, I use a piece of saw plate I have left over from making my panel saw instead


----------



## jmartel

> Aw shoot, bless my depleted checking account. That card scraper trick is going to bug me enough to finally take the scraper plunge. I have been avoiding it, but I have not been steered the wrong direction yet from any of you fine folks. Maybe I can sell off a few grandkids to cover it
> 
> - CB_Cohick


Find a hand saw at a garage sale (something newer and ugly with a non-shaped tote, nothing that could be considered a good saw) and cut it up to make scrapers from. Same basic thing if I remember right. A $2-5 saw should yield 3 or 4 scrapers.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I often recommend folks to get some Lie Nielsen card scrapers to start. They're $15, about the same as everyone else's. But they're the only ones that come with a very nice burr, ready to use. Seems to help folks to feel what they're going for.


----------



## summerfi

What thickness do you like for card scrapers?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The .20" are my ideal thickness.


----------



## CL810

They are also a softer steel and easier to form a burr than the Bahcos.



> I often recommend folks to get some Lie Nielsen card scrapers to start. They re $15, about the same as everyone else s. But they re the only ones that come with a very nice burr, ready to use. Seems to help folks to feel what they re going for.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


----------



## JayT

I have a lifetime of scrapers in multiple sizes from TGIAG. Threw some on an order I was already placing since there was no extra shipping charge. The cost was low enough to not want to spend the time cutting up an old saw. The small ones are .015" and the mediums are .020".


----------



## CB_Cohick

Turns out I got lucky. Bob read my comment, and is sending me a scrap of steel to try out  I'm not sure why I thought scrapers were more expensive. Now I need to read up some more on using scrapers, and maybe more importantly sharpening scrapers. One of the things I love about woodworking is that there is always something new to learn.


----------



## summerfi

I have a lot of new scrap saw steel ranging from .015 to .042 that I've thought about cutting up into scrapers, having my saw logo lasered on, and then either selling on my website or giving away for gifts. I think they would make a nice little item.


----------



## jmartel

You could sell them as add-ons to saws for people.


----------



## Mosquito

sell stand alone and include with saw orders?


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> Hi Bob, here s the link:
> 
> 
> 
> (though there are many more out there).
> 
> - yuridichesky


Thanks, I have never seen that trick before.


----------



## shampeon

Seems like you could easily add a wood back to the scraper for hammering it? Make it look sorta like a dough cutter.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Bob, I'd buy some shaped like the two on the right if you got into selling them.

I'd make them myself, but I'm busy whizzing out excellence everyday.


----------



## Mosquito

I've actually just used one of those retractable utility knives before, and used the handle to pound on it too. Worked fine as well, but doesn't leave as wide of a cut as a scraper


----------



## CFrye

Would one of these work? Probably not deep enough?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^those will work for finish drips Candy, but not the scraping we're talking about. It's all about the burr. Here's the good vid we were alluding to: 




For your smoothing pleasure:









A plethora of hand cut tenons:









It's beer-thrity.


----------



## CFrye

Red, I was asking if the single sided razor would work for the finishing off the half-blind dove tails. I can't type fast enough to keep up! ;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Oh, I'd be afraid a razor would be too brittle to take the hammer whacks.


----------



## shampeon

Yup, Rojo, they're not long enough to keep it level, I would imagine.


----------



## CFrye

I hadn't considered the brittleness of the metal. Is it more brittle than the utility knife blade Mos talked about?


----------



## DanKrager

A utility knife blade is relatively tough and much thicker than a single edge razor which is very fragile and brittle by comparison. I wouldn't try to use either one for this purpose, as Ian points out, they're just not long enough. Maybe you could grind the point off an old kitchen knife…it has a handy handle.
DanK


----------



## jmartel

Should the scraper be roughly the same thickness as the saw kerf? I think I have an 0.020 scraper or two I can dedicate.


----------



## lateralus819

Reds to busy to sharpen them too so he just buys new ones. Lawl.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Reds to busy to sharpen them too so he just buys new ones. Lawl.
> 
> - lateralus819


Lol. I may have done that once….or twice.

-

Ya Jmart. The most common sawplate thicknesses are also the best scrapers. .015-.030.

I see now that I forgot a zero on my post below….earlier today.



> The .20" are my ideal thickness.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


----------



## WhoMe

Wow, great info on recent posts.
Red, your belly height is probably chest height to me….

Cl810, I have a bahco scraper. Is there really a difference to the LN ones? If they are easier to form a burr, does that also mean that the burr doesn't last as long either? Just curious.


----------



## rad457

Great discussion on scrapers, I have mostly Lee Valley and have to say they were very usable right out of the package. Tend to use my cabinet scraper more, sharpening method very similar. Did make up some guide blocks from some Ash that really makes the 45 angle on the cabinet scraper much easier!


----------



## CL810

May need to qualify the earlier comment. When I subscribed to FWW a few years ago, I received as a "complimentary gift" a scraper that was presented as a LN scraper. I've always assumed it was a true LN scraper. It has the LN logo on it.

Anyway, the scraper is softer and the burr does not last as long. But sure is easier to make a burr as well.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I haven't been able to find much info or ideas on how to make/attach armrests for captains chairs. Lemme know if you guys know of any por favor.


----------



## jmartel

This is what I could find in Furniture Fundamentals - Tables and Chairs. Not sure if it helps.

Greene and Greene bench:









Craftsman style rocker:









And here's a couple quick options from google images that might work.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good call Jresearch. I've got a book with that first bench in it. Kinda figured on some rabbets and bolts. Channeling my inner Maloof.


----------



## WhoMe

Cl810, thanks. Creating a good burr on a scraper has to be the bane of my existence. I can sharpen other things just fine, but a burr on a scraper, nope. But I have found the William Eng video to be the bets on how to make a burr.

Like the la smoother shot Red.


----------



## rad457

> Good call Jresearch. I ve got a book with that first bench in it. Kinda figured on some rabbets and bolts. Channeling my inner Maloof.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Nice snug Rabbit, no bolts required? IMHO!


----------



## Iguana

Just finished a mid-century modern piece today. All the kids, spouses and grandkids are coming home for Christmas and we needed a table for the wee'uns. Here's the result:










Full project description:


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Todd Clippenger did a good blog on scrapers


----------



## Mean_Dean

Question for you guys:

I put the last coat of my home-brewed Danish oil on a project, and want to know how long to let it cure before topcoating with clear, dewaxed shellac?

I've heard 2-3 days, a week, and the next day-so what's your experience and advice?

Thanks!


----------



## Mosquito

nice work Mark!


----------



## Pezking7p

How'd you decide to do the chair arms, red? Seems like a perfect spot for loose tenons or dowels. Maloof would be really sweet if it fits.


----------



## CL810

Dean I like waiting at least 2-3 days. The oil seems to cure better/faster that way.


----------



## shampeon

I've put shellac on right after Danish oil. The oxygen in the DNA cures the oil, and it dries fast that way. I also make a mix of BLO/DNA/shellac that's my go-to quick wipe-on finish.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I agree with Ian. I put Shellac over Danish almost immediately.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Thanks guys for the input.

I put the final coat of Danish oil on yesterday morning, but still have a little weeping out of the pores. I'm thinking I'll wait until at least tomorrow before applying the shellac.

On the other hand, I read somewhere recently that shellac is porous to air, and will allow a finish to continue to cure underneath it?

I want to make sure I get this finish right, since it's a Christmas gift for a friend!


----------



## Pezking7p

What is the idea behind finishing with BLO mixed with other things? Why not just finish with poly or shellac?


----------



## Mean_Dean

> What is the idea behind finishing with BLO mixed with other things? Why not just finish with poly or shellac?
> 
> - Pezking7p


Some darker wood species, like walnut or in my case, Leopardwood, really respond to a finish with BLO in it. In this case, the poly in the mix helps the finish cure faster.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"Fragile finger sent to heal us
Tender brow prepared for thorn
Tiny heart whose blood will save us
Unto us is born
So wrap our injured flesh around You
Breathe our air and walk our sod
Rob our sin and make us holy
Perfect Son of God
Welcome to our world."

Merry Christmas all ye furniture makers. And God bless us.. everyone.


----------



## summerfi

Amen.


----------



## Trakem2

Amen, and Merry Christmas!


----------



## CFrye

Amen. Merry Christmas, y'all.


----------



## rad457

Amen, and to all a good night! Merry Christmas.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Red. Merry Christmas all.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Home stretch on the chairs. Captains armrests made. Just install and final sanding/scraping. That won't be much. I smooth all the parts as I go.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Almost there Red. Looks good!


----------



## lateralus819

Screws?? No sliding dovetail??


----------



## TheFridge

For shame red…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Screws?? No sliding dovetail??
> 
> - lateralus819


I know, I'm a hack. It is a little painful for me to use screws, but I console myself knowing St. Maloof did too.

Honestly though, I kinda consider future joint failures and repairs. Wise with chairs. If a sliding dovetail blew out in that spot, it would ruin the side rail of the chair.

Also, I went to a nearby Amish furniture place for ideas. They didn't even use a dado….just screws….for both joints.


----------



## jmartel

> Also, I went to a nearby Amish furniture place for ideas. They didn t even use a dado….just screws….for both joints.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


What a bunch of hacks. Maybe if they had some power equipment they could make some nice furniture worth buying.

/end sarcasm.

Looks like I'll finally be able to get back to the night stands this week. Been itching to get my hand tool work on again.


----------



## johnstoneb

I was thinking the same as Lat. Where are the sliding dovetails?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Ya. Of course the other thing to consider is the economics. Are customers willing to pay for the most time-consuming joint in every case?


----------



## rad457

Bet that after doing 50 or 60 it would become easy. LOL!
A Vidar's chair takes about 10 weeks for the first one.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"It's been a long December and there's reason to believe
Maybe this year will be better than the last
I can't remember all the times I tried to tell my myself
To hold on to these moments as they pass…."


----------



## bearkatwood

Maloof did use screws and sometimes I wonder if he was wrong to. I talked with Gary Rogowski when I was at his shop about a two day build he did with maloof and he said they worked up a side chair and had it sitting on the bench and they didn't get the screws in the legs right away and the next morning the joints had broke. I have had them crack out too, so now I try to use the maloof joint only where it is completely enclosed and I don't use screws. 
That is a very balanced looking chair, I like it a lot. I can see you took some time with the grain choice on the headrest. Can't say I don't love that walnut either. I wish I had used your support for the arms. With one chair I did, I tried to add bulk and give it some curves to the back and blah, blah, yadda, yadda. Sometimes the simplest approach is the cleanest looking and best choice. Yours turned out great, I like your back slats too. Instead of screws a wedged dowel works good.


















Have a great day.


----------



## Buckethead

I'm with Brian. Screws were the right choice here, red. (Practicality and functionality) No point in risking a failure in the grain for a puritanical ego fest. I've been quietly watching your chair build as time allows, and they are lovely.


----------



## Pezking7p

A lot of water got in the shop. Now I had a sad. Not sure I can fix this without needing another board. Thoughts?


----------



## putty

Pez, can you rip it down the center glue joint, clean up the joint then re-glue?


----------



## TheFridge

Set it to the side and let it dry for awhile whether you use it or not?

I guess making another depends on how fast it has to be done.


----------



## shampeon

If:

it doesn't revert to flat after drying and
wetting down the concave (drier) face and then putting it in the sun to equalize also doesn't work

Then +1 to Putty. Rip on the glue line (carefully!) then rejoint, plane, and glue.


----------



## Buckethead

Pez, I've let my cutting board get too wet and saw it curl up. (The finish had worn off due to scrubbing) It was sitting flat to dry. I re-wet it, and dried it opposite side up, (checking periodically) then after a couple hours it seemed to flatten back out. I stood it upright to dry out completely after that point. Now, even with it refinished, I always dry it oriented upright, and haven't had that problem.

Moral of the story: the cupping was due to uneven drying. Apply opposite effect, and it may salvage the glue up.

Caveat: my cutting board is 2" quarter sawn plies, yours is 6" plainsawn so it might be less effective, but I'm certain it will improve it. (Even if not completely)


----------



## jmartel

+1 to the above. I've salvaged more than a few glue ups and cutting boards this way.if you can get it close, the rest can be flattened out when attached to the piece of furniture


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^They covered it Pez.

Nothing to do with woodworking, but I know some of you enjoy my personal blogs. This one is intensely so.

I Repent


----------



## summerfi

Good stuff Red. Believe me, I understand.


----------



## JayT

Word, Red. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## thinbluebbq

Great stuff posted so far. I love arts and crafts style.


----------



## CFrye

Deep, Red. Thank you.


----------



## duckmilk

Thanks Red, that is something that was very worth reading, and not neccessarily in the sense that one may have done something wrong, but also in the sense of things that one may have neglected to do.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Glad ya'll got something out that blog. Sometimes that stuff just wells up in me until I write it out.

Finally sanding on the chairs complete. Such a menial task. Slappin some oil on 'em tomorrow.


----------



## summerfi

Red, if your fingers aren't sore, you didn't do enough sanding.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Ha! There's a band-aid on my right thumb Bob.


----------



## jmartel

Looking forward to seeing them, Red.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Little oil followed by several coats of poly. This part is always fun. It's like watching the walnut dance for the first time.









-


----------



## DanKrager

Oh yah! Things of beauty, Red.

DanK


----------



## johnstoneb

Those are beautiful


----------



## putty

Cant wait to see them all finished, chairs are starting to intrigue me!

What is the hanging whiffle ball for?


----------



## TheFridge

A little shop furniture / hand tool storage behind the plane till on my bench. Gonna slide out on under mount slides. At this point in time. It may change.


----------



## bobasaurus

Nice-looking finish Red. Fridge, that cabinet is coming out nicely, love the dovetails.

I've spent the last few days chopping out a large breadboard end for my table base:



















It will be drawbored too. I left extra room for lateral expansion in the mortises. I'm working on the second one now.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks Bob, that's some choppin there.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> What is the hanging whiffle ball for?
> 
> - putty


Oh the balls jokes I could make;-) It's set so it taps the windshield when the wifey pulls the van in. Don't need her hitting my bench. The van would lose.

Some very clean work there Fridge and Allen. Looking good.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks your redliness. I thought saw some finish on some chairs but it was probably the angle of the pictures


----------



## jmartel

Lookin good on the chairs, Red.

Allen, what's going in the outer most slots on the breadboard ends?


----------



## byerbyer

Chairs look sweet Red.

I'm curious about the bread boards as well Fridge?

I'm finally back to furniture building mode. Glued up the panels for the dresser carcass. I milled all the lumber on the jointer and planer. Then made a spring joint with my BU Jack. 









Two of the panels came together wonderfully. 









And the other two needed a little extra help to stay aligned. I've read about making curved calls but I didn't want to take the time. I saw this on a FWW video and it seems to have worked just as well. 









While I was milling the wide stock for the carcass I milled the drawer fronts as well. I like the little bit of curl already showing in this walnut… it's purdy.


----------



## jmartel

Love that curly walnut, Byer.


----------



## Pezking7p

Dem curls.

Robert, massive tenons on that breadboard. Looking forward to seeing what fits in the end slots.

Update on the curled up panel I posted….I tried clamping it to the bench, not much luck. Put it out in the grass, again not much luck and one of the joints failed (I assume from my clamping?). I'm going to try spraying it with water as a last resort. Not looking forward to losing 0.25" from my panel width. We'll see how it turns out when it's finished. Might have to swap out one of the boards for a wider board.


----------



## DanKrager

Pez, in addition to spraying HOT water on, lay it on a HOT soaked towel(s) cup side down with a heat lamp on the convex side. Check in two hours to be sure you haven't gone the other way. If it was flat once, it will be flat again. Clamping only causes damage, though 3-4 weights (up to 5lb or so each) might accelerate the process without damage. The object of these and similar exercises (laying on grass in the sun) is to force moisture into the cup while drawing moisture out of the convex.

All this says that the panel is inherently unstable. The only permanent solution my experience can offer is to resaw the panel into 2 1/2-3 inch strips and re glue, paying attention to grain orientation. There is a reason large glued up panels done commercially have rather narrow strips and it's not just because wide is scarce. Wide STABLE is very scarce. The closer the grain is to vertical through the thickness of the panel the more stable it will be.

DanK


----------



## Hammerthumb

I have not posted anything here in a while, so I thought I would post a few pictures of a French polish session.

I wanted some of the pores to be noticeable, so I did not spend a lot of time on pore filing. Here is a picture of the underside of a shelf I am making for a friend. Pore filled an bodied up 1 session:










Second session of boding up:










After third session. Starting to see some nice reflection:










It's almost ready. I'll post pics of the top of the shelf when I get a chance.


----------



## theoldfart

Looks good Paul.
Question, is McCarin ever not busy? The place is crazy right now. Can't wait to get out.


----------



## darinS

McCarran is ALWAYS busy!! Or it least it was when I was living down there.

Hope you make it out safely oldfart.


----------



## SASmith

I just stumbled across a talented custom woodworker while looking at strip canoe builds.
http://blog.phloemstudio.com/
The last entry is about a chair he designed for Thomas Moser.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Darin is right, McCarren is always busy. Don't spend any money in those machines. You might miss your flight!

Here is the bottom again after the last session where I stretched the finish.










Notice some open pores. I am not real worried about this as it is the bottom of the shelf. Here is the top. The two pieces will be laminated together after finishing.










The top still needs a little more attention. I'll try to get the last of the shellac on it tomorrow. The edge detail for both top and bottom will also need some attention.

I'll get some pics of the corbels tomorrow too.

Have fun guys.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ You gotta teach me to do that someday Paul.

Scott, thank's for posting that blog. Tis excellent. Now I want to build a canoe. 
Although, the chair looks a bit artsy-fartsy (lol). That is, they look sweet, just not comfy.


----------



## Hammerthumb

BRKs canoe = battleship.

Red, real French polish is something I have practiced over the last couple of years. It's something that might take some time to understand. I have watched many videos of people polishing, but there is something about having the right amount of shellac and alcohol in the pad, and using the right amount of pressure as you apply thru the sessions. I have had near perfection, and really messed it up at the end of the process. That is ok though, as you can fix it in the next session.

It's a finish that takes some time, and should be saved for the right projects. Some projects I have done have required more time for the finishing then the actual fabrication of the piece.

I can offer you tips if you want to try it, but the best person to learn from is Patrice LeJune or Partick Edwards. Patrice posted a blog on French polish that helped me the most. I actually went to San Diego for a visit with Patrice. He was very helpful with advice.


----------



## Waldo88

Finished up the credenza/TV stand I've been working on since late summer.



















Its walnut ply with solid walnut edges and corners. I did the drawer front lamination myself since I wasn't about to buy another sheet just for the fronts. I made some out of some solid walnut I had, but it was unsteamed air-dried, making the color match horrendous, so I redid them using some veneer I had. The drawer boxes are made from solid maple with box joints all around. I finished it with danish oil first, then sprayed lacquer over the top once it was fully cured.

The pulls came from an original built-in in our house that previous owners moved into the garage. The only thing missing are some finger cups for the sliding doors, finding them in polished chrome is not easy; they are on the way tho. But, the sliding doors work just fine without, they slide smooth with ball bearing wheels in a track.

...on to the next project. I'm working on making a close to exact copy of a Selig Z-chair and a loveseat variation. The copy will be limited by photographic evidence, I've never actually seen one in real life, so I have to rely solely on pictures (and some basic dimensions I can find). The loveseat will be built from some quartersawn cherry I have, the chair from walnut. I've got the basic outer frame of the lovseat built, just one more M&T joint to go. About the only way I've varying from the original is changing the arm connection to the back a bit, I don't care for how the original looked that much, some of Wegner's variations of that joint look better IMO and are probably stronger.

I'm itchin to lay into the chairs with my angle grinder. That is by far my favorite part of a build, where the blocky rough form becomes smooth and graceful.


----------



## ToddJB

^ That looks awesome. Great job. I really really like your grain selection and layout.


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## byerbyer

Great work Waldo. I love the leg/base detail. That's what I've been kicking around for my dresser build.

That chair looks like some I've seen from Thrive Furniture that are pretty slick looking.


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## Hammerthumb

That is a really nice project Waldo. Well done! Those Z chairs look cool also. You need to post progress pics of the build.


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## BigRedKnothead

Bravo Waldo. I second the grain selection. That detail can make or break a piece.


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## bobasaurus

That looks sturdy and well-made. The finish and walnut grain are really nice.


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## Waldo88

> Great work Waldo. I love the leg/base detail. That s what I ve been kicking around for my dresser build.
> 
> That chair looks like some I ve seen from Thrive Furniture that are pretty slick looking.
> 
> - byerbyer


Here is a better look at the legs:










They are angled 15 degrees the the long dimension and 7.5 degrees in the short dimension. The stretchers are joined with dowels, with a reinforcing block hidden (cut so that there is no end grain gluing). I also used a single pocket hole in each stretcher-leg connection to act as a clamp when gluing (the first time I've ever used them), it isn't easy to clamp odd angled joints well, especially since the long dimension is just over 4'.

The only real attachment to the case is 3 screws in each of the middle stretchers. To make the base I rough cut it, made all the joints and glued it up, then shaped it with mostly my angle grinder and orbital sander, though my file, rasp, and spokeshave got some use.

I've seen those chairs. The originals are a bit more graceful than the "Kennedy" chair, especially the arms.

I got some mortise chisels for Christmas, no better way to break them in than by making some chairs. I have no good way of smoothing precisely angled tenon shoulders, so I'm just making mortises on both sides of the joint, and then making a floating tenon. It took me hours to figure out all the angles for each of the joints in the chairs.


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## Waldo88

Doh, double post, ah well, might as well write something useful.

I like designs and design details that are unreasonable in commercially available furniture.

For example the walnut corners and ends in that piece. That just isn't done. Sure it detracts a bit from the waterfall effect, but at the same time, it makes it virtually impossible to chip the veneer, and I can round the corners, which IMHO makes it look softer and more graceful (Maloof casework has a similar look). It makes the piece more durable (damaging hits tend to happen on the edges), and it makes the piece safer for young'uns. ...but, it adds way more work to the piece, each of those is cut oversize, doweled in place, then carefully shaved down to make joints invisible to the touch. It really can't be done in a commercially viable manner.

I think the same about the small differences between the Kennedy chair and the Z-chair. Those small differences are a fair amount of effort, much of it relying on the hand of a craftsman instead of programmed machines. But its the difference between a $900 chair and a $1500 chair, a steep increase few consumers would pay for such small details.

I always like to have some of this sort of thing in the furniture I make (all of it for myself). I always ask myself when designing, are there things that I can do to make it better, even a little, that would be a lot of effort, that set apart a custom handmade piece from a commercially produced piece. I have the advantage of time, I don't need to make a living, or heck any money from the stuff I make.

Then again there are some details I couldn't care less about. Dovetails for example. I'm a modernist at heart and prefer the box joint in every way (form and function), even though many view dovetails as the hallmark of quality, especially in drawers.


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## Pezking7p

Waldo, outstanding piece! I love how the drawers and sliding doors create asymmetry on the front, but the grain brings everything back together. I don't even like MCM stuff but I would put this in any room in my house.


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## CL810

Great work Waldo. Design, craftsmanship, grain selection,.... All top drawer. Congrats.


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## kaerlighedsbamsen

Great looking credenza, Waldo! 
Regarding the z-chair: Have you seen this post by CRUDESKINNYB: http://lumberjocks.com/projects/148946 In the following thread there is a link to a template for the legs. Perhaps usefull if you struggle getting the dimensions right.


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## Waldo88

> Great looking credenza, Waldo!
> Regarding the z-chair: Have you seen this post by CRUDESKINNYB: http://lumberjocks.com/projects/148946 In the following thread there is a link to a template for the legs. Perhaps usefull if you struggle getting the dimensions right.
> 
> - kaerlighedsbamsen


Nice, I had not seen that, wish I would have (though I can see places where he differs from the original)

I spent hours scaling pictures, drawing an accurate to-scale drawing, the figuring out all of the angles of each of the joints. I also reverse engineered the construction a bit. I didn't realize until I worked out the joint angles that the back and the leg join the side (if a straight rectangular board) at the exact same angle, 74 degrees, and all the members are made from exactly the same width stock.


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## jmartel

That looks fantastic, Waldo. I couldn't see it earlier since I was at work and they blocked your photo host's website.


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## Waldo88

Here is the headway I've made this far on the z-chair and loveseat:










I'm starting with the sides for the loveseat, made from some quartersawn cherry I got at an estate sale about a year ago. I've got the main M&T joints all done, with one left to glue (as of this photo, its in the clamps now). I'm starting to work on the arms, which are the most heavily carved pieces, I've got the stock prepped and joint angle cut for one of them, need to finish planing the stock for the other.

I'm going to wait to glue on the arms though until the bulk of the shaping to the main frames is done, the arms will get in the way too much. I've done a little with my spokeshave and rasp, but I haven't yet busted out the artillery (angle grinder), which will make quick work of it.

Once the sides are done for the loveseat, I'm going to set them aside and do the same with some walnut for the chair. I made plywood patterns so shape duplication will go quick. The bulk of the work is stock prep, all my wood is rough cut, and I'm using handplanes to do all stock prep.

I'm going to finish the chair before getting back to the loveseat. The chair will be a heavily used piece of furniture in our TV room, there is immediate need for it; the loveseat, not so much, its mainly to fill space and look nice in our bedroom.


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## Waldo88

I have a question about a joint concept, that I'm thinking about using for the back lower stretcher for the chair and loveseat.

The original chair used a keyhole connection; its easy and it allows the chairs to be dissassembled to flat for transport. I'm not going to do that, I'd like something stronger, and have no need to disassemble the chair.

The issue comes up at the lower stretcher, which joins to the main long member just below the back. M&T would seem like the obvious choice, but there is already one there for the back; there is some space below it, but I don't want to cut too much out of it; that is pretty much the point of peak stress in the long structural member.

I was going to just do a doweled connection, but I worry that that too would be a little on the weak side, especially since I'd be drilling into the tenon if I put in multiple dowels.

But, the big issue is that it is a long grain to end grain connection. What if I did a half tenon, mortising the end grain of the stretcher, and gluing in a tenon aligned 90 degrees from usual, so that when the end is cut flush, instead of being all end grain, a good chunk of it is long grain? That way I could use a single dowel and not worry, as most of the joint is glued long grain to long grain.

Is this sort of joint done at all?


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## DanKrager

No matter how you cut it Walden, there's going to be cross grain at the joint. You're contemplating what amounts to a 4 way join of end grains, two of which are one stick. When that happens in nature, the grain of each piece separates and bends into the long grain of each of the sticks it's adjacent to. A simple example is the crotch of a mulit-limb tree. The strongest possible joinery here is to bend pieces that span each 90° corner and rejoins long grain on either side of the "joint". So, if your back stretcher were made of two pieces with 90° bends on each end, the lower ones joining the lower legs and the upper ones joining the upper back leg your goal would be accomplished.

I don't have another ready answer. Chair makers have struggled with this for centuries, and I've repaired my share of the bad ideas, which you are trying to avoid now. If you can figure a way that is strong without glue i.e. mechanical then you are on the way.

Consider, almost as you suggested, cutting a tenon 90° to typical but instead of a loose tenon, just leave a tenon sticking out. In fact two or three small ones might do the job better, combining tenon with finger joint notions. Let them penetrate the big MT joint so they don't seriously weaken it, and wedge them on the outside. Remember wedges go cross grain to the female piece. This situation interlocks the various intersections and breakage is the only failure possible.

Gonna be awesome pieces.

DanK


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## Waldo88

Wedges are not stylistically correct though. In danish modern design, the ultimate goal is to appear as if the graceful form was carved from a single block of wood. Joinery is hidden not celebrated.

I think engineering-wise the chair has to be looked at different than say a basic wooden kitchen chair. The side shapes are extraordinarily stiff; it would be rigid even if all connections were pins. Very little bending is transferred across the joints, failure in any joint would be shear or tensile. The main weak point is where the back meets the long member that becomes the back legs, and weakness is in the long member, there is a lot of moment at that point; cutting away material to make unnecessarily strong joints only weakens the weak point.


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## kaerlighedsbamsen

Yes in MCM it is form over joinery. 
Great to seee that you have allready started on the chairs. Looks like a spindle shaper would be the efficient (and traditional) way to go with all that shaping. Ewer used one?
The stretcher/back joint sounds like an obvious place to use dowles, probably 6mm ones. They have fairly good strenght and yet does not weaken the parts much.


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## jmartel

Could you do a fox wedged tenon? Gain the strength and permanence of a wedged tenon, but it's not visible.










Or maybe use a screw and a well picked out face grain plug to make it blend in.


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## bearkatwood

I read it when I was looking through your site, very well written.


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## BigRedKnothead

^Waldo's site is pretty nice.

Moving towards the dining table. I ordered the leaf mechanism slides from Osborne Wood Products.










They are all maple dovetail style slides. I could have made them myself, but not for $63+ship… if you figure in my time. I'm not gonna say the milling is as nice as I hoped, but the action is smooth and tight. They should work just fine.

I had thought Osborne was all US made. These say Canada. I guess those knuckleheads need a job too.


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## lateralus819

My next source after USA made is canada. At least it isn't china


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## Waldo88

> Yes in MCM it is form over joinery.
> Great to seee that you have allready started on the chairs. Looks like a spindle shaper would be the efficient (and traditional) way to go with all that shaping. Ewer used one?
> The stretcher/back joint sounds like an obvious place to use dowles, probably 6mm ones. They have fairly good strenght and yet does not weaken the parts much.
> 
> - kaerlighedsbamsen


No, I've never used a spindle shaper. Not sure what it even is.

My shaping tools of choice are (in order of importance): angle grinder w/60 git flap disc, ROS w/60 grit, spokeshave, rasp, file, hand sandpaper. The angle grinder makes quick work of things, and is surprisingly easy to control.


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## byerbyer

Joinery for my dresser project has begun. Putting my Christmas haul to good use. Tools for Working Wood Moxon vise and David Barron 1:6 DT guide.










Pulled the handle off my Lee Valley coping saw whilst cutting the waist. I'm going to sin and put a little epoxy in it so I can finish out this project. A Knew Concepts fret saw is moving towards the top of my list for dovetailing gear I don't own.










Ran out of time yesterday so only one set of tails are cut & paired. Hoping to sneak in some more time some evening this week or next weekend. Slow and steady winds the race, right?


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## DanKrager

Looking good, Byer.

Probably shouldn't have used the mallet so vigorously on the saw… LOL!

Yes, slow and deliberate. Make it take awhile before you find any mistakes. I'm liking your bench…

DanK


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## CL810

Inspiring..


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## bobasaurus

Some serious dovetails there.


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## kaerlighedsbamsen

> No, I ve never used a spindle shaper. Not sure what it even is.
> 
> My shaping tools of choice are (in order of importance): angle grinder w/60 git flap disc, ROS w/60 grit, spokeshave, rasp, file, hand sandpaper. The angle grinder makes quick work of things, and is surprisingly easy to control.


Have a look at how skilled Boris Beaulant use one ot make a table: 



 (Skip to 1:30 if in a hurry) Traditinonally Danish chairs like yours were made using a shaper and a curved cutter following a template doing all the edges in one pass. Special templates and cutters were used for the armrest as well

But sounds like the angle grinder works well as well.


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## BigRedKnothead

^I'll be darned. I'd never heard of a spindle shaper either. Most of us don't have a shaper….just router tables. The Big Daddy router bit would be a close second. I love that thing.

Atta boy Byer. Keep us posted. And quit hammering on your coping saw.

Andy- Daannnngg.


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## TheFridge

That fret saw is awesome


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## CL810

The Boris Beaulant videos were interesting on so many levels; craftsmanship, juxtaposition of the old band saw with new European style tools, design….. And man oh man, that Festool Domino. Seeing it in action sure makes a believer out of you. Think how long breadboard ends take normally and that domino will just knock 'em out.

I think I see one in Red's next table commission.


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## BigRedKnothead

^Ha. You rascal…reading my mind?

I was talking to Lat recently about how the Domino would probably be a better purchase than a sawstop for my next commission. One of those buggers would cut 10-15 hours off a set of chairs. Easy.

Festool had a refurbished sale last year. I should've pulled the trigger. I'll be watching this year.


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## Pezking7p

I'm with dank. Slow and steady wins the race. Looks good byer.

Waldo, do you have a pic or link to the finished product? Can the rear apron move so that it doesn't interfere with the other joint?

I hate to be the one, but whenever I think about a domino it makes me think about the line between manufacturing and craftsmanship/woodworking. For some reason this is the product that gets me. It's that age old question about what your goals are. Making furniture? Having furniture? Designing furniture? Does it matter what the joinery is as long as its strong and hidden? I don't think I have an answer to these questions for myself, but I think it changes by the day and which kind of therapy I need.

And for the record, I would never judge anyone for how they assemble their furniture.


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## jmartel

I personally don't think the Domino is really a big deal. It's just a quicker, portable mortising machine, really. I'd like one, but it's way too expensive. And it's something I'd probably do on builds for other people, but not myself. I've started to do things the traditional way for myself, and the quicker ways for other people.


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## BigRedKnothead

^Nah, I get it Pez. I wrestle with the philosophical side myself. The thing that tips the scale is that loose tenons (Domino tenons) are just as strong as any other tenon. If I didn't use a domino on the next dining chairs/angled tenons, I'd likely use a plunge router. Essentially the same joint.

Plus, I've made a mortise and tenon joint just about every way possible, hand or power. I don't have anything left to prove to myself in that regard. Just tempting to eliminate some of the monotony.

That's my rambles on the subject.


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## DanKrager

The Domino is a hand tool, right?

So there.

DanK
P.S. I'd rather have a 444…


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## Pezking7p

I think I would buy a domino if it didn't cost $1000. I'd be in at $500 pretty quickly.

Then again, if I had a domino, how much extra furniture could I make?


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## summerfi

Ha. I have no clue what a domino is. I thought it was a game.

When I was making stuff at a younger age, my objective was to do it fast and get it done so I could use it right away. I was less concerned about joinery technique than immediate functionality, though I did always try to make my stuff look nice and be durable. As I've gotten old(er), I'm thinking more about what will someone think about my work 50 or 100 years from now after I'm long gone. They'll see my name on it and either think, wow that guy was quite a craftsman, or yikes what a jackleg he was. Not that it will matter to me then, but there's a certain pride in thinking about it in the present. Really, the time difference between doing it right and doing it sufficiently is not all that great in the big picture.

I will have to say that all you guys on LJ challenge me. When I build something nowadays, I'm thinking about putting all the quality in it that I can because I want to show it here and be able to feel good about what I've made. Since joining this site, you all have caused me to step up my game. So thanks for that.


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## byerbyer

Hear, hear Bob. This forum has made me step up my game with each project I make. I try & push myself to use new techniques that would have intimidated me in the past. 
If I were cranking out projects on commission I'd spring for a Domino in a heartbeat, but as a weekend warrior building stuff for family I find it hard to justify the price. Like Red I've made loose tenons with a 'lectric router, the Domino just shortens the setup time. When/if the day comes I decide to pull the trigger for a mortising machine I wouldn't rule out the Domino.


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## BigRedKnothead

+1 to this site and interaction with other woodworkers pushing my woodworking skills and knowledge to new heights.

Here's the Festool domino for those we lost. Of course, you can make your own loose tenons rather than buy theirs.


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## summerfi

Similar principle to Beadlock it appears.


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## jmartel

You could even make traditional integral tenons. Just roundover the ends or square up the mortise like if you used a router jig. The Domino still saves time over doing it by hand/with a router jig.

Red, have you given thought to making a horizontal slot routing machine? 
http://woodgears.ca/slot_mortiser/index.html

Would be something to consider if you want to explore using a Domino without paying the money for one. If you use it a lot, then you could justify the money. I saw a modification to that design on youtube where they basically made the table piece support on a set of ramps so it was quicker to adjust, no screws to turn.


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## Iguana

Bob,

Not quite like a Beadlock. The Beadlock cuts a mortise with fluted walls, so you need to use the specially shaped loose tenons they sell to fit the mortise.

Whereas the Domino cuts a smooth-walled mortise, similar to using a router and mortising jig. You can use the tenons Festool sells, or you can roll your own.


----------



## jriddim

Hi all,

This is my first post, showing a mid-century modern desk I just completed. I am no professional, by day I work as a art director/graphic designer. On my free time I look for cool woodworking projects to take on. I really enjoy modern design and I also enjoy trying to create pieces in my basement, mostly using hand tools. I do not have a lot of space, or a lot of money to buy big expensive equipment so I try my best with what I have. I am quite amazed at the things I see on here. Any feedback would be well appreciated! Thank you.


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## johnstoneb

That desk came out looking nice. You have some talent.


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## DanKrager

Agreed on the looking nice part.

What I'm really interested in are those special "wooden" legs! LAWL. Welcome to the dust bin where we cover each other with dust in feeble attempts at encouragement. We all started someplace, and I can assure you that in my case, power machines that looked like a washer and dryer were not used! Just for the record, you are starting out where many of us are coming back to…hand tools. Keep up the good work. Hope you can find much encouragement and guidance (where needed…just ask) on this site. Great bunch of guys to trade with.

Do be careful of the slippery slopes that we seen to enable….

DanK


----------



## jriddim

Thank you guys very much for the kind words. It certainly means a lot coming from you. Thanks for the warning too. I can already see myself getting a lot more involved and am already itching to start my next project. A matching bookshelf or file cabinet perhaps?


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## DanKrager

Ooooooooh, a file cabinet would be exquisite dovetail cutting practice…  Wooden slides? Naw, that's too old. Check out Dave Lawless Hardware. He's got the best prices I've ever found for quality full extension drawer slides. He happens to be local here, but I'm betting he can ship them to you cheaper than you can buy them locally. The hanging file inserts are dirt cheap too and make an excellent addition. But don't let me enable you or nothin'.... 

DanK


----------



## bearkatwood

Plus, I've made a mortise and tenon joint just about every way possible, hand or power. I don t have anything left to prove to myself in that regard. Just tempting to eliminate some of the monotony.

- BigRedKnothead
[/QUOTE]

I hear you brother!


----------



## Iguana

Welcome to LJs, jrddim.

Good-looking desk. You obviously know the style well, the drawer front with the asymmetrical side to cover the divider is a dead giveaway that you've done some studying.

I'm curious, too, as to how the power tools named "washer" and "dryer" fit into your machining methods. "Sink" is self-explanatory, it is used to wash off DNA. 

That whole corner of the room screams MCM, except the baseboard.

Where you from and can we call you something other than "jrddim"?


----------



## Waldo88

> Hi all,
> 
> This is my first post, showing a mid-century modern desk I just completed. I am no professional, by day I work as a art director/graphic designer. On my free time I look for cool woodworking projects to take on. I really enjoy modern design and I also enjoy trying to create pieces in my basement, mostly using hand tools. I do not have a lot of space, or a lot of money to buy big expensive equipment so I try my best with what I have. I am quite amazed at the things I see on here. Any feedback would be well appreciated! Thank you.


Nice work. Exciting to see more people building midcentury modern inspired furniture.

You need less tools than you'd think to make nice things. You need at least one way to do every major operation (rip, crosscut, cut curves, plane, joint, rout, drill, sand), that's it. Being able to resaw and veneer are also quite valuable (esp for MCM style furniture).

The only machine (as in large stationary thing) I really use is my bandsaw.

To me, learning to woodwork without a table saw is akin to learning photography with a fixed lens. The "handicap" you have in the end is the best teaching tool there is.


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## Waldo88

> Waldo, do you have a pic or link to the finished product? Can the rear apron move so that it doesn t interfere with the other joint?












Another view

There isn't really anywhere that the stretcher can move.


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## BigRedKnothead

Waldo's a pimp.

Still catching up the dining chair blog.

Short and sweet on Sculpted seats.


----------



## jriddim

Thanks everyone for your input, kind words and inspiration. Dan, I am very excited to attempt dovetail joints soon. I just need to figure out the basic equipment I will need (protractor, angle gauge, etc.) Would you recommend starting dovetails with a handsaw or should I look into a scroll saw? Mark, thank you, and I love your attention to detail and pointing out the baseboard. I never realized or even thought of that haha. You all can also call me Joe or Joe C. Waldo, I perhaps one day will acquire a band saw. Your analogy with photography hits home and I'm thrilled to continue learning and practicing this awesome craft/art form. I look forward to posting more on here, and thank you to everyone for the warm welcome.

Thanks,
Joe


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## bearkatwood

Nice chair, I have been designing one that I intend to make with similar 50-cent lines. (that's my hood slang for mid century)  Very nice desk by the way.


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## BigRedKnothead

jriddim- Many of us use this method if you're not familiar.

Barron Dovetail.


----------



## JayT

jriddim, big +1 on the Barron dovetail guide.

I did a review on it that covers my feelings. Rather than re-hash, here's a link to my review


----------



## TraylorPark

So I've still been plugging away at the desk, and continuing to watch and be inspired by everyone else's work. So far I've gotten a couple of the boxes made and the tops roughed out. I had to abandoned the mitered corners for the pedestal boxes, though. I just didn't have any good way to cut them at 45s accurately. 









I did get slowed down a little bit because after moving things around for the Christmas tree our old wal-mart DVD tower decided it was going to fall apart so a replacement was required. That and a cold spell kept me inside for a week or so. 









Last night I started on the feet for the bases and they are turning out pretty nice, but slow going. 









You can see the starting blanks and then how they turn out after tapering and cutting the tenon. And here is an idea of what they will look like installed on the base.









My original plan was to have this completed by the end of January, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to miss that mark. Any way I'll keep chugging along.

Zach


----------



## Waldo88

> Nice chair, I have been designing one that I intend to make with similar 50-cent lines. (that s my hood slang for mid century)  Very nice desk by the way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - bearkatwood


Nice.

The thing that really drew me to the Z-chair in particular, and probably why its copied so much, is that the upholstery part pf the project is about as basic as can be (I imagine the same is true of a Morris chair). Making a box cushion is pretty much upholstery 101, there are tons of tutorials out there (or they are easily ordered custom made). That's the 2nd phase of the project for me, buying a sewing machine and using it to make the cushions.

I would really love to make a Kagan style chair, but the more complex cushions and upholstery is what gives me pause.


----------



## Waldo88

> Waldo s a pimp.
> 
> Still catching up the dining chair blog.
> 
> Short and sweet on Sculpted seats.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Have you tried using flap discs at all? I suppose they'd work similar to your carbide wheel, but the edges wouldn't cut as harshly, you can control the degree of cup in the cut via the angle of attack. Plus they are dirt cheap and seemingly last forever when used on wood.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^I haven't bud. I plan to next time.

In my previous town, I asked around at the fabric shop and found a very good upholstery dude who worked of his garage like me. He made the two cushions for the Morris Chair in the original post. $40 labor each cushion. Heckuva deal I thought. Said they only take him an hour.


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## byerbyer

Made a little bit of progress Saturday afternoon. Here's a shot of transferring the layout to the pin board. 









And the dry-fit assembled joint.










I have a couple sets of pins left to cut and I'll be able to glue up the carcass. Hopefully later this week!. 
I've been living dangerously using my last coping saw blade and it gave out second to last pin… I may end up just chiseling the waste until the new ones arrive or jigging up the router to hog out the waste. I haven't decided yet.


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## bearkatwood

Oh yeah, Daddy likes! 










Have you seen this?



















cool stuff.


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## Nugs

Some progress on my Queen Anne Secretary Desk. The end is in sight! The drawers are just drawer fronts right now, need to do some dovetailing and get the slides, kickers and runners in place, then fit the lid and do the gallery.


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## CL810

Wow Nugs, it looks great! Bet that's kept you busy for a while.


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## byerbyer

Lookin sharp Nugs.


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## Waldo88

Have any of y'all been watching Ellen's design challenge? The furniture nerd in me loves the design, and the woodworker in me roots for the best woodworker (who IMHO has a massive advantage, with skill comes speed and precision, important when under a time crunch).

I liked framework a little more last year (Jory is my favorite contemporary woodworker), I hope that show comes back too.

Anyway. I'm done shaping one side of the Z-loveseat, starting to carve the other. The going is slow, this step takes time to get right, and I've had minimal time to work on it, just a few minutes a day.


----------



## TheFridge

I saw 1/2 of the first episode. It was bedtime.

That shop had every power tool I'd ever want in one place. Not to mention the wood available. I almost spurted when they showed the shop.


----------



## WhoMe

It's obvious that jet and festool are part of the show. Lots of fun tools. I'm surprised that there is not a few powermatic tools here and there, especially since they're part of the same company.
What blows me away is the access to the amazing wood for the projects. I'm like Waldo, I like to watch for the designs and woodworking.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Looks sweet Waldo. I've been making straight/flat furniture for too long. I'm gonna start bustin out some curves this next year.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

This past week one of my chair seats split….for some reason. Then I has a sad (pez).

So, I gave it several injections of thin CA glue til the crack was filled. Dry and sand. Worked pretty well. Just looks like a dark streak in the grain with finish.


----------



## CB_Cohick

Nice recovery, Red. Hopefully that is the last split you have to fix on this project.


----------



## ToddJB

Awesome repair.

Why do you think it happened? Still a bit wet?

Do you think that the CA will keep it from cracking further? This is from metal working, not wood, so take it for what it is, but in metal working when there is a crack in Cast Iron you have to drill a hole at the very end of the crack to keep it from cracking further.


----------



## Waldo88

Red - How do you thin CA glue, and do you mix with sawdust?

For fixing cracks, I've used the ole vacuum yellow glue in the crack and clamp 'er tight method; thus far none that I've done that with have reopened.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Chris, I feel pretty good about the repair. If it ever fails, I'll just make them another seat.

Todd- not totally sure. The wood is kiln dried.

Waldo- CA like the tightbond brand actually come in thin, med, or thick. Most store-bought CAs are thin. I use thin for these situations because I want it to seep deep in the crack. Even put blue tape on the front edge of the seat so it wouldn't run out the end of the split.

Sprayin poly the next few days….


----------



## bearkatwood

Man, I am seeing some nice work on this page, Nugs, Waldo, Red and Byerbyer, you guys are putting out some high quality stuff. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## ToddJB

Waldo, super small cracks I just put in thin CA, bigger cracks that need a little filler, you can put the CA in, let it settle in, then sand the piece, and on bigger than that cracks you can even add the saw dust first, then add the CA, then sand. All of these will likely darken the crack and sometimes will effect the finish around the area. Test it out before you go gung-ho on something you've invested a lot of time in.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Ya, sometime I use sawdust, sometimes not.

Brian, you playin' possum? Your skillz can hang with anyone on here;-)


----------



## putty

I learned some new skills from this thread, I'm making a table out of reclaimed redwood decking. I have never done this before, but here is a M/T drawbored breadboard end…one more side to go!


----------



## CL810

Gorgeous putty! I really like the pin layout- gonna remember that.


----------



## DanKrager

That really is nice, Putty!
DanK


----------



## ToddJB

Man, what an eye for style. Everything about this whole layout and color selection is appealing to me. Good job, putty.


----------



## putty

Thanks Guys,
The base will be a variation of this…probably painted SYP


----------



## WhoMe

Ooo bummer Red. Nice fix though. I can't really see anything in the after pic. You guys are doing some awesome work on this thread. One of these days I will have something to show. Unfortunately, I cannot seem to get time in the shop to do anything let alone finish a couple of projects that are in work. I'm not even a 90 percenter. More like a 40 to 50 percenter on my projects. 
SO, I will just jealously watch and learn from you guys. 

Waldo, like others have said, thin ca works for cracks like this. The thin is like water and penetrates the wood pores fairly deep. Often, Thin CA is used to stabilize cracks, voids or other soft or unstable parts of a wood pen blank when making pens. It is also the first step in one method for a CA finish on a Pen, the thin bonds much better to the wood than a medium or thick as the initial layer.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Latest blog on El Captains Chairs.

http://www.westfallwoodcraft.com/2016/01/captains-chairs.html


----------



## jmartel

Good write up, Red. Chairs are something I'd like to do, but will probably be a while.

Hopefully I'll have some updates on the night stands this weekend. Going to start working on them again tonight. Picking up some more Beech today


----------



## byerbyer

Nice blog, Red. Like Jmart I'd like to make some, but they're down the road for me.

Planning on gluing up the dovetailed carcass for the my dresser tomorrow. I'm going to pickup some Depends tonight just in case…


----------



## putty

That's going to be a beautiful dining set Red…cant wait to see it finished…good work

Chairs intrigue me, can anyone recommend a good chair book for someone who has never made a chair before?


----------



## Nugs

I've never actually read it, but judging by Lost Art Press' other books, "A Chairmaker's Notebook" would probably be a great book. Although looks like it's more focused on Windsor Chairs? I'm sure someone here has read it and can confirm my speculation.

I've only built a Morris Chair, but would definitely like to make some more. I'm not really a huge fan of the mid-century style except for the chairs, something like a Vladamir Kagan contour chair is definitely on my list. Has anyone built a similar one before?

Thanks Brian. I agree with Red, everyone posting here is putting out some great stuff. I get quite happy when I check the thread and there are multiple unread posts.


----------



## jmartel

Picked up some super wide beech today for use as the tops of my night stands. 16.5", just wide enough for a bit of an overhang.


----------



## bearkatwood

Aint life a beech? Nice write up Red, well written and explained. You are doing a great job on those chairs. I aint gots no skills man, I just fake it till I make it! 
As for the "Chairmakers Notebook" I like the book for its' ability to cleanly teach how wood reacts and how to deal with the movement of the wood. Even green chairmakers have to use some seasoned wood. Their seat blanks have to be stone dry. Chairmaking, especially green wood chairmaking is heavily dependent on knowing how wood moves and its' seasoning. So to me I don't care what aspect of woodworking you choose, "Chairmakers Notebook" is worth having in your library. Putty, I really like your layout. It looks like you really paid attention to the wood grain and color. The pin layout is great too.


----------



## DanKrager

Jnight working on night stands at night. Well played, even if unintentional… Nice haul on the beech. I've not worked with it much. What's it like? Kinda stringy?

+1 to Brian's thought. I haven't read the book either, but it's on my wishlist.

DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The Chairmakers Notebook is a wonderful work, but it is all about Windsor chairs.

I'm afraid I haven't found a great book on frame chairs like I build. Any book/plans with Kevin Rodels Chair plan is helpful. Also Mark Ripley's "Making Furniture Projects & Plans" is decent.


----------



## TheFridge

Speaking of chairs. This un is on the smaller side. Have another and a 2 X 2 table to make. First chair for me. Still have stretchers, chamfering and smoothing.


----------



## Pezking7p

Looking good here. Red, I couldn't find that chair fix. Maybe the cold weather caused it to shrink and crack?

No shop time for me lately. Still plugging along on my Greene and Greene trunk. Getting closer but still have to finish the design for the totes that go inside. The tea tray style tote was easy, but the tote that looks like an old fashioned tool tote is much harder to get right. It doesn't help that I'm terrible at drawing.

I've been wanting a book to help guide my chair designs…angles, heights, widths. What you need to make a comfortable chair. Any recommendations?


----------



## rad457

http://www.insidepassage.ca/
Check out the Vidar's Chair in the programs, if I could find the time and money?
Actually working on a Coffee table, well trying to, using Teak and the grain patterns are driving me crazy.
Some real nice stuff showing up on this thread!


----------



## jmartel

> Jnight working on night stands at night. Well played, even if unintentional… Nice haul on the beech. I ve not worked with it much. What s it like? Kinda stringy?


Color and grain is kinda boring and generic, but it works well with hand tools/machines. Fairly cheap around these parts and plenty hard so it's good for things to be stained or painted. These will be stained.

Been thinking about making a Facebook page and or a website to direct people to. Having to pull out my phone to show people and go through photos to show them my work is annoying. I'm getting more and more people wanting to have me make stuff on commission for them. Haven't been able to come up with a good name though.


----------



## TheFridge

How about "J's Mart"? See what I did there….


----------



## DanKrager

There they come…Oh pun the puns! (see what I did there?) ...

Jq-read, I use a business card with a QR code on it that directs to my website. My craft booth sign has a QR code and I'm thinking about putting it on all my price tags, too. Showing one on my phone for another phone to read even works!










Bottom line…in my case it hasn't generated any more business…yet.

DanK


----------



## jmartel

I don't know of anyone who has actually used a QR code they were given. So, I wouldn't be doing that. Just a simple business card and website. Not going to be going full time with this unless there's a massive market that I'm not seeing. But doing commissions one at a time, 4-5/year would be good for me. Spending money, lets me continue making cool stuff without clogging my house full of furniture, etc.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Fridge, those junior chairs are pretty cool. Might have to make one for my nephew. Your *********************************** shop heater cracks me up. Looks like I'm gonna buy a 5000w heater from another LJ. That'll be nice…..but now I gotta run some more stinkin wire.

Not sure if they're supposed to have this posted(copyright). It's out of print now…..but here's the pdf of one of my favorite furniture making compilations. Very informational:

http://wood.woodtools.nov.ru/mag/fww/bfww_2007_10.pdf

The Rodel chair is on page 54. Most all my chairs are variations from that design.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"Making stuff, really nice stuff, doesn't require as much nimbleness as it does patience and perseverance. The basics - sharpening, sawing to a line, planing to a line and chopping - take time to seep into your hands. Once the basics are there, everything else gets easier. Turning, veneering, carving, hardware installation and fitting doors and drawers are all skills that build upon the basic set.

But mostly is has to do with the most profound and important piece of advice I ever heard from a student.

During a class in Texas, one of the students recounted how he made his workbench entirely by hand, including ripping 8' planks for days and days to make the top lamination. One of the other students was simply amazed and asked him: "How did you do that?"

The student answered: "I just decided to commit to it. Once I committed, it was easy.""

- Christopher Schwarz


----------



## jmartel

Feels good to start making some shavings again. Did some maintenance on the table saw earlier today, and then got back to work on the night stands. A #8 might be a bit big for this operation, but my other planes weren't sharp. Was either the 8 or a 65 block plane.










Threw on the board for the top and cut the basic shape out for the lower shelf. Will be dovetailed into the case.


----------



## TheFridge

Thank red. And yeah, the heater gets the chill out. Accidently kicked it over onto some shavings and those puppies lit up quick. I unplug the heater and let the fan run for a few minutes before I leave. Burning the shop down would be no fun.

Gonna have to save that pdf in my kindle for later.

I see your chairs are coming along great.

That part of the quote about learning the basics is the truth. It seems like once I learned how to saw to a line and tune it if necessary it's made everything else a lot easier. I try to impress that upon the couple people have asked me (of all people) for advice. It's like riding a bike to me. Once you got it and you figure out how to jump 5' ramps and not die. The rest is easy.

Edit: Jwork, is that a 112 in your till? What's it like to use?


----------



## john2005

Like Red, I'm spraying finish on the bunk bed project today. Got all 11 pieces to hang. Gotta say, its nice to have access to a paint booth.










And this is what we are spraying today. Frankly, its awesome. Red, you might look into it. Its the best urethan I have sprayed yet. Sets up fast and comes out smooth. I think laquer lays down smoother, but isn't as durable as a urethane. Add the catalyst and its harder yet. We will see if this is true in a few years after the boys beat on it a while.


----------



## ToddJB

Yer killing it, Boyz


----------



## BigRedKnothead

John, I am gonna have to try that stuff that that I have a sprayer I can trust.

Believe I posted elsewhere, but I used this new sprayer to lay down minwax satin poly on the chairs. Worth every bit of $120. Shoulda got this bugger years ago.










I just turn the spray all the way down, and it sprayed poly was well as I could have asked. Dig it. Gonna have to try some of that urethane and shellac someday.


----------



## putty

Red, did you have to thin the poly? I have one of those cheap HF HVLP guns. I have to thin everything and still don't get a good finish


----------



## BigRedKnothead

*On LJs, forums, and trolls….*

I joined a small woodworking club in the area. Visiting with them, I was surprised- not one of them spent time on an online woodworking forum. A few had in the past, but the "crazies, trolls…" ran them off. Shame, because they have a lot to contribute. That said, it reminds me why Schwarz and others start their own forums, and run a tight ship.

Awhile back another LJ challenged me to look back at LJs in the early days. There was some sick talent on here. Unfortunately, most of them got ran off or discouraged. I'm pretty much at that breaking point myself. Nearly shut my account down for good this past week.

However, I'd have a hard time walking away from this furniture forum. It's a great group, and we learn a lot from each other. And, frankly, it's the only part of the site where I can fend off trolls and nasty comments.

So, if it's alright with you guys, I'll keep posting my ramblings on this forum, and on my site. I just don't have the patience for the rest of the LJ site anymore.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, did you have to thin the poly? I have one of those cheap HF HVLP guns. I have to thin everything and still don t get a good finish
> 
> - putty


I didn't with this gun. I do try to create flat surfaces. I.e. I laid the chair on their back one day for spraying, then laid on their front the next.


----------



## bearkatwood

Oooooo, Ahhhhh, nice finish room dude!


----------



## jmartel

> Edit: Jwork, is that a 112 in your till? What s it like to use?
> 
> - TheFridge


Just saw the edit. Those are 2 wooden 112's that I was making for the last plane swap. One was almost working before a part broke and I ran out of time. Haven't had time to finish/fix it yet. Birds eye maple and padauk

This is as far as I've gotten:


----------



## TheFridge

Gotcha


----------



## BigRedKnothead

John- Looked for that pre-cat urethane at the Woodsmith store (a Gen Finishes dealer), but they didn't have it. I always leave that place frustrated. They do have oil-based in the gallon which is good to know. Might have to compare that to minwax next time.

Oh ya, they only have cocobolo on special order only now. $110 bdft. Lol. I'll pass.

-

The dining chairs are all finished and chillin in my basement. Gotta say, the captains chairs are durn comfy. Gonna make those curved slats next set for me and the mrs. 









I'll start the table when I get some time. Shouldn't take half as long as the chairs. Gotta find some cherry for the top. Sounds like lumber run time! Haven't made one in like 9 months. Twitchin.


----------



## jmartel

$110/bdft for cocobolo? Damn, Rockler is only selling it for $38. My lumber dealer guys are selling Ebony for $140/bdft though.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Ya, that place is goofy. All the online places are still around $40. Never been to a rockler or a woodcraft, but I'm betting they're better.

They didn't have the domino I wanted to check out in stock either. Startin to think that's gonna come before sawstop. Spendin my commission fun money before I've got the check;-)

Oh ya, installed the chair seats today. Here's a shot of the pocket screws you guys were giving me crap about. The idea is the pocket screw keeps the seat centered, while clip hold it to the frame (allowing seasonal movement). I thought it was a decent idea. 








The chairs from Amish places around here just have screws going through the four corner brackets. How is the solid seat gonna expand and contract?


----------



## jmartel

A Domino would probably be more useful than a Sawstop right now I'd say. Certainly would have shaved a lot of time off those chairs. And I used the money from that Entertainment center to buy the table saw and track saw to make said entertainment center. Won't get any grief from me about spending the check early.


----------



## john2005

Trolls suck

Do you have a Benjamin Moore paint store out there? Thats where I got mine. There isn't much for woodworking supply here and what is, is over priced. I go to the paint stores for my finishes, but I research online so I know what I am after. I was going to get a different one from General Finishes, but the guy I was talking to had some exeience with a number of them and preferred this one. He did say they have changed the formula, but I didn't catch how. He did give me a discount on it though as they were trying to move the last of the stock to make room for the new stuff. I like talking to those guys as they are usually knowledgeable and have some experience. I don't feel he steered me wrong on this one. Proof, I had the two foot boards tip over on the way home, and barely a scratch. Just a couple white spots that the paper bag trick took care of.


----------



## DanKrager

Hey Red, good to see the final touches on the chair set! Your seat fastening method has been used from long before my time based on the chairs I've repaired, though your materials differ. (The repairs weren't for the seat!) The seat retaining screws I've removed from corner blocks have all been in oversized holes and usually washers under the round heads, unless it was what upholsterers call a "loose" upholstered seat on a plywood base.

DanK


----------



## JayT

Chairs look good, Red. Hopefully the shop elf doesn't get too attached or you'll have to build her a set, too.

Cocobolo is going to get much harder to find (it's been added to the CITES list) but $110/bdft is ridiculous.


----------



## byerbyer

Lots of sharp work happening on here gents. Well done! I got the carcass of my dresser glued up over the weekend. 40 Dovetails in that bad boy. Hide glue definitely earned a place in my shop after that glue up!










I pulled the joints together with a few clamps, then took them off to check for square. Pretty much the weight of the pipe clamp pulled the box square. I've got a few gaps to fills in the joints, but I think a little dust & hide glue (or epoxy) will do the trick nicely.

While the glue was drying a whipped up a quick and dirty shop storage cabinet from some old close shelves I had taking up floor space in my shop. Much better use of space and the dang thing is already full.


----------



## Waldo88

> Oh ya, installed the chair seats today. Here s a shot of the pocket screws you guys were giving me crap about. The idea is the pocket screw keeps the seat centered, while clip hold it to the frame (allowing seasonal movement). I thought it was a decent idea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The chairs from Amish places around here just have screws going through the four corner brackets. How is the solid seat gonna expand and contract?
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Nice work.

It is a great idea, I'm not sure why someone would give you crap about that.

I almost never see trolling around here. Are there parts of LJ I'm unaware of?


----------



## WhoMe

John, you're first shot of all those pieces hanging in the spray both looks like it came from a horror movie where the who's was bodies instead. 
Glad you didn't encounter an ax murderer while spraying. Haha.


----------



## VadimIzoita

removed


----------



## BigRedKnothead

*Byer*, that wasn't a close enough pics of those dovetaisl to satisfy;-

*John*, the butterflies look great and are so fitting for a child's bed. Well done. 
Good call about hitting up a paint shop. Guys and the borg's know very little about wood finishing. I need to branch over to water-based someday. I'm just so comfortable with oi-based poly. 
A buddy of mine refinishes cabinets for a living and he swears by the Varathane brand of water poly for spraying. Need to try it.

*Jay*- Heard that about cocobolo. I'll have to douse my love affair someday. It's beauty is unmatched, but I'm not for violating ol mother earth;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Hey Red, good to see the final touches on the chair set! Your seat fastening method has been used from long before my time based on the chairs I ve repaired, though your materials differ. (The repairs weren t for the seat!) The seat retaining screws I ve removed from corner blocks have all been in oversized holes and usually washers under the round heads, unless it was what upholsterers call a "loose" upholstered seat on a plywood base.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


What?? I thought I reinvened the wheel there Dan! lol. I have seen pocket screws in antiques….cut with a chisels. There were several times early in the craft with I thought I'd come up with something new, only to see it in a book or mag later. Not much new under the sun.

*Waldo*- guys were just razzin me (either here or on facebook) about seeing a pocket hole on my "hand crafted" chairs. Don't worry, that's not how the legs are attached.

Unfortunately there is a bit of trolling/slander that occurs on LJs. A quote:

"I've got some stooopid mudder trucker acting as a TROLL over on the handplane thread. Been flagging the worthless bum. Goes by the name "Lateralust" aka BRK Cheerleader. Getting mighty tired of him."

So, now the question is if I can even find a cheerleader outfit with "BRK" on it….let alone get Lat to wear it and post a pic. lawlz.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, make sure the color you pick for your cheerleaders outfitbflatters the ginger in you


----------



## Pezking7p

Spraying results look sweet, John.


----------



## jmartel

Red, I don't think they make cheerleader outfits that big for you. You might be out of luck here buddy.


----------



## byerbyer

Here's a bit closer pic for you Red


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen

So much fine work going on here these days. It is pure pleasure to read along!


----------



## Gixxerjoe04

So i finished up my first decent big project. Took a little while longer than I expected but working in my garage and dealing with winter and all that is a pain. Was also the first time using my domino on a project. Made benches from the wood whisperer's plans for a friend. 
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/220522


----------



## DanKrager

Gixxer, those are nice solid heirlooms there! Beautiful.

My first thought was, "I wonder how many of those it would take to pay for a Domino?" It looks like an ideal application for the tool and I bet it was remarkably convenient and speedy. It seems to combine the strength of a MT joint with the convenience of a biscuit cutter. Is that a fair assessment?

DanK


----------



## CB_Cohick

> Gixxer, those are nice solid heirlooms there! Beautiful.
> 
> My first thought was, "I wonder how many of those it would take to pay for a Domino?" It looks like an ideal application for the tool and I bet it was remarkably convenient and speedy. It seems to combine the strength of a MT joint with the convenience of a biscuit cutter. Is that a fair assessment?
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Almost makes me want one of those fancy biscuit cutters! I guess I need to find a project that demands it first. That is how the collection grows, lol. In other news, my wife has seen my tiny basement shop bursting at the seams and we have started looking for a new place. So far my vote is for the one with 4 acres and a 4 car garage!


----------



## theoldfart

Finally getting back to a project I dropped about two years ago.









A set of night stands using cherry and some spalted maple.

Lots of weird angles


----------



## jmartel

I'd love to get a Domino, but I'd have to get another sizable commission to justify it. Probably wouldn't want to do it on personal stuff, since I'm moving towards hand cutting all the joinery on my personal items. Other people's stuff though, I want to get out ASAP and get my money, so it would be useful without sacrificing much strength in the joint.

Don't think I'd need the XL. 10mm is probably big enough for most of the stuff I'd do. Still, $950 for everything with the accessories is a lot of money.


----------



## theoldfart

What's the advantage of a Domino over dowels?


----------



## jmartel

More strength. It's essentially a floating tenon. Probably quicker as well, as it's one cut rather than a dowel every X inches. Plus you can lengthen the mortise that's cut so it allows movement, such as attaching breadboards and things of that nature. Make the middle tight and lengthen the outer ones.


----------



## ToddJB

Also, because it's an oblong shape it forces it to be aligned. A dowel your piece can spin during glue up.


----------



## theoldfart

^ makes sense. I usually use two dowels if there is a chance the piece could rotate. The big thing is price. I have all the tools necessary for most dowel situations so the purchase would have to be financially justified and I just don't make enough pieces to make it worthwhile. ALSO it does have a tail


----------



## jmartel

Completely understandable. I wouldn't be able to justify it for personal projects at all. It could only be justified by doing commissioned work. Much like my track saw, and probably when I decide to get a better drill press.


----------



## TheFridge

Interesting build TOF


----------



## Gixxerjoe04

If it weren't for the domino I'd probably still working on the benches haha. I ended up getting the XL with adapters to use the smaller bits, don't know if I'll ever need it for the thicker ones but got it just in case. On the tenons I made, I did make them deeper than what the 500 would go, probably would have been fine being more shallow but I wanted to be sure. This is my biggest project to date. One concern I had was when i secured the top and put it on the ground it was wobbly. Freaked out then realized I was on an old concrete floor so it probably wasn't flat. I put it on a table made from mdf/plywood, something like that and is pretty much flat, and they were fine. Hope the floor where they end up is flat.


----------



## duckmilk

Wow, lay off this thread for a few days and it takes an hour to catch up. Nice chairs Red and thanks for that link. I may have to attempt some chairs sometime, if I ever get the shop finished;-)

Good to see ya back at it Jmart.

Beds look really nice John, I've sprayed poly with one of those siphon guns and dilute it slightly. Haven't had any problems but I put it on real thin so it doesn't run.

Putty, that redwood looks nice. keep posting pics.

Waldo, you finished that chair yet?

Kevin's picking up an old project again but hasn't finished his bench

Byer, thats a lot of dovetails, good job.

Nice benches Joe.


----------



## Waldo88

> Waldo, you finished that chair yet?


No. The half hour to an hour I day I get to work on it makes the going real, real slow, especially since I'm building it the hard way.

I'm just about done with the 2nd side, I should have it done this weekend. Then I need to make all the stretchers, seat support, back slats, and cushions. I still have a long way to go unfortunately.

In other news, I finally got around to posting a project for the C table I built. It was one of those "what can I do with my scrap bin that isn't a cutting board" projects. I love how it turned out, and more importantly, so does the wife.


----------



## bobasaurus

Those x-shaped rails are impressive, must have taken forever.

Still working on the table legs, I'm super slow. Got a ridiculously deep mortise cut in one of my 8/4 walnut legs:










And the rail fits:










Nice and tight:


----------



## bobasaurus

I did chisel the line a little too wide on the show side though, annoyingly (I mistakenly thought a stray pencil line was the original knife mark). I'm thinking of using water and a heat gun to steam it, then plane it flush and see if that fixes the problem. If not, a bit of glue and dust should help.


----------



## theoldfart

Allan, the X shape was easy. Cut a half lap with my mitre box using the adjustable depth stops. Making the mortise in the legs is a whole other matter and is taking considerable time.


----------



## bobasaurus

I'll bet those leg mortises were ridiculous. Did you do it all with chisels?


----------



## theoldfart

Chisels and a dovetail saw


----------



## jmartel

Allen,

For the stray chisel with a bit of a gap, you can always make a wedge to drive in. If you orient the grain the same direction, it will be essentially invisible. If it's less than say 1/32" of a gap, then just sawdust and glue will hide it.


----------



## bobasaurus

Jmartel, I meant that when I was deepening the original knife line traced from the tenon, I made it too long on one side. So it's just a straight chisel strike line that shouldn't be there. You can kinda see it on the lower left of the bottom pic I posted, where the bottom line of the mortise extends left by about 1/8".

Thankfully the tenon fits the mortise without any real gaps. 3 hours of labor well spent, I guess (I suck at mortises).


----------



## jmartel

Lower shelf 1 of 2 is cut and dovetailed in. At least for a dry fit. Still need to cut the divider for the drawer to run on before I can glue up. And then do night stand #2.



















There's no gap between the lower rail and the shelf, just a shadow from the shelf being proud. Figured I'd leave it 1/16" proud and flush it up after glue up.


----------



## bobasaurus

That came out great. How do you cut your sliding dovetails? I've only managed them with a router, and even that takes forever.


----------



## john2005

Waldo, thats a creative use of scraps I must say. I like it.

Allen, that is one heck of a mortise. Cleaner than I would've done. Impressive.


----------



## jmartel

The dovetail only goes through the forward legs. The rear legs is a regular dado. And I did the dado on both with the router plane, then marked the dovetails that I cut into the end of the shelf with a knife, used the saw to cut what I could, and then cleaned everything up and took out the waste with the router plane.

Shelf is a single board, no glue up.


----------



## byerbyer

*Waldo* - Creative use of the scraps. I've wanted to do a similar table that would slide under a couch or chair, but our current furniture allow for that.

*JMart* - Night stands are looking good. We just sold our "el cheapo" set to fund a new hardwood set

*Allen *- Mortise looks good from here  I concur that a bit of sawdust during glue up will likely take care of it.

*Gixxer *- Nice sturdy looking benches. Well done.

I was hoping to get back into the shop this week to level of the dovetails and see how good a job I really did, but unless things change I'll be installing some kitchen cabinets for my aunt and uncle. We're about 3 weeks from the baby's arrival so needless to say she's going to get here before I get this dresser wrapped up… Cheers!


----------



## theoldfart

Making some progress, first round of joinery done









The exposed part of the cross stretchers will cut away in part to give a floating top look. Next up the lower cross stretchers. They will be dowelled in place and again cut away to give the floating shelf look.

A drawer box will be suspended below the top stretchers ( I hope)


----------



## ToddJB

Pretty cool design, OF. This coming out of your noggin or are you going off something?


----------



## theoldfart

I drew up the plans, a while ago. Just had to wait until my skill set improved so I could make it happen!


----------



## ToddJB

It's a cool design and it looks like your executing it well.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Everything posted of late has been outstanding.

If any of you are to ever make a set of chairs on commission, I highly recommend you make one extra. Various reasons:
- You can save all the oddball parts and grain patterns that just didn't work out for the bastard chair(lawl)
- Chairs aren't a lot of board footage, they're a lot of time for various setups. You hardly notice one more.
- And, of course, you get to keep one.

This chair is the most unique of the set, and my guitar likes it just fine. Been strummin that bugger a lot the past few days. 









"They say every man needs protection
They say that every man must fall
Yet I swear I see my reflection
Somewhere so high above this wall

I see my light come shinin'
From the west down to the east
Any day now, any day now
I shall be released"

Ya know that one Kev? ;-)


----------



## DanKrager

Sage, BRK. Sage. 
DanK


----------



## TheFridge

Stuff


----------



## CB_Cohick

Outstanding work on the chairs, gentlemen. I'd love to go down that road someday, but I feel like I need to build some more skill first. Chairs strike me as quite complicated.


----------



## putty

What kind of wood is that chair Fridge? You better get that shop cleaned up before that new saw gets there!


----------



## Sprung

It has been waaaaay to long since I've had time to stop in here… Hopefully I can finish getting caught up on missed posts soon.

What I've seen so far - solid work, everyone.

Red, if I ever get up the nerve to try and build a chair, I think I'll need to take a trip down your way for lessons. I really like the cherry/walnut mix and the design.


----------



## putty

CB, I too have the same thoughts on chairs. I may start with a miniature one…something to put a potted plant on.
with the proper joints of course.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, sounds like something the Band would do. I agree with the time vs materials on chairs. The children's set I made took a lot of time but next to nothing as far as wood goes. The Shaker tape in the seat was the most expensive component


----------



## putty

Here is a good chair making video.


----------



## CL810

That's a great video putty. Interesting how he utilized a circular plane and spoke shave. Man his tools are crazy sharp.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

It's always fun to watch Matt Wolfe work. He inspired me to purchase a compass plane, but I confess I can't get it to work as well as I'd like (pitted iron not helping). I'll work on it. Until then, I just keep reaching for spokeshaves.

-



> Outstanding work on the chairs, gentlemen. I d love to go down that road someday, but I feel like I need to build some more skill first. Chairs strike me as quite complicated.
> 
> - CB_Cohick


Just work your way up to chairs fellers. Still just good ol' mortise & tenon joinery. Build a couple kids chairs, or any design with right angle joinery. The base is essentially an end table. Then, work up to designs with angled joinery. It's tough to make a comfy chair without some angles.

This was my first chair, probably 7 years ago. All right angles. Nothing special, but a confidence builder:









Sprung- you come out down any time. I still need to scout the lumber sources around here as of yet.


----------



## bobasaurus

My compass plane is also finicky. It's a bit of a franken plane though… had to get the iron and chipbreaker off a different older compass plane. Someday I'll tune it up, but I don't have much use for it. Actually, I did want to put a shallow concave curve on my table's rail… might be perfect.


----------



## mojapitt

Thanks for the info on the sprayer red. I think I will buy one just like it. Did you get the cleaning kit also?


----------



## JayT

A bit of a learning curve (bad pun) and I've been happy with my #20


----------



## CB_Cohick

I picked up an Earlex sprayer at Woodcraft when they were on sale last fall, and did get the cleaning kit as an add on. It is a different model than Red's I think, but I have been pretty happy with it so far. I ended up not using it with some milk paint I used on a project recently because the milk paint was pretty thick and I didn't want to take the time to figure out the correct dilution. But it has worked well for oil based stains and poly and some water based stain I used on a fence.


----------



## fatandy2003

> Everything posted of late has been outstanding…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Is that a Seagull guitar in that pic? I have one in my bedroom. My dad and I are in the process of making a set of guitars. I am basing my headstock shape loosely on the Seagull.

Oh yeah, and the chairs look great too!

Cheers,


----------



## Sprung

> Sprung- you come out down any time. I still need to scout the lumber sources around here as of yet.
> - BigRedKnothead


With my wife pushing 8 months pregnant, I'm not traveling very far right now, but I'm hoping to make a trip down to this place sometime in late spring or early summer. Don't know how far away from you they are, but a side trip might be in order if'n I'm headed down to Iowa.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks, the wood is ash. The dark stuff is olive ash. All from a tree my pawpaw milled 30+ years ago.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sprung, I live near Ames, that place is about 45 min northwest of me. I plan to buy the cherry for my tabletop from them in the next few weeks, so I'll let you know how it goes. Other than that, once it warms up, I tell everyone who plans to make a trip out this way to make time Ledges state park. Coolest park in Iowa imo. Shoot me a pm when it warms up and you've got a good car seat;-)

Andy- good eye on the Seagull pickin' fiddle. I have no idea how that company is able to make such a nice solid-top guitar for under $400, but they still do. I played all kinds of guitars in college, but Seagulls are my favorite acoustics. The pick guard/plate is custom(shocker). Had to come up with sumpin because I didn't want a hole in the top like Willie. hehe. 









A guitar stand like Jmart made is on my "to do" list.


----------



## Sprung

Red, especially since you're that close, I'll send you a PM when I'm headed that way. Ledges sounds like a great place - would definitely have to bring the family along for that. Will look forward to hearing how you like them for lumber. There's a few small one man/hobby mills around up here with good lumber and good prices, but none with the selection they have.

Red's pairing of walnut and cherry in the chairs has got me thinking - and wanting everyone's input. I will be starting on a bedroom set build this year, something I've promised my wife. This year it will be the bed. The nightstands will follow next year, then the dressers sometime after that. I have about 50BF of 8/4 curly cherry that I'll be resawing for panels for all the pieces (though will be picking up some regular cherry for some side panels that won't get seen much). Am also planning to source some cherry burl from a friend for some small accents. The current plan is to use soft maple as the complementary wood - I have 350BF of that in the shed right now. I think it will look great together, maple and cherry. However, I'm really liking the walnut/cherry pairing, and my wife is digging it too. Am thinking about a possible push to switch out the maple for walnut.

What does everyone think - what's the better pairing, especially as the woods age (cherry to darken, walnut to lighten up, maple to not do much), walnut/cherry or maple/cherry? I plan for this to be a set that our children will someday be fighting over and want to do it right. Design isn't set in stone yet, but it's going to be along the lines of Mission or A&C or Shaker as those styles appeal to both my wife and myself.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Cherry and Maple example for everyone's reference. Of course, soft maple likely has more color.










Tough call for me Matt. I lean towards the walnut. Dark looks great in bedroom sets imo. But I'd only do it if you can get a good price/exchange on walnut. $8 bd/ft or higher (market price some places) would rule it it out for me. Of course, we should be able to beat that around these parts.

Cherry and walnut is pretty sweet:









Amana Furniture


----------



## jmartel

The problem I see with cherry/walnut is that the cherry will darken significantly which takes away the contrast. That dresser Red posted does look pretty darn good though.


----------



## CL810

Here is a blanket chest I made with cherry and birds eye maple veneered panels.









The pic makes the cherry look much lighter then it is or will be. (Had an existential sound to it. ;-) don't post when you've had a few scotches)


----------



## fatandy2003

Red,
Yeah, Seagull makes a solid guitar. I think Canada subsidizes musical instrument makers in order to promote musicians, so Godin is expected to pass that savings on to his customers. I am skeptical of the affects of subsidies, but putting the politics aside, I appreciate seeing such a quality guitar at a lower price point. I did notice the aftermarket pickguard, looks like she is well used!

Sprung,
If it were me, I would stick with the cherry/maple. Like Jmart said, the cherry will darken and be less of an accent. However, the contrast is very complimentary and is worth considering. I am not sure you will go wrong with either option, so pick the one you (or your wife) prefer.

Cheers,


----------



## rad457

Seagulls made in Quebec with Cedar from British Columbia. Everything is Subsidized in Quebec, all of Canada pays dearly for their existence! LOL! I bought one years ago, some day may have to learn to play it?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well, if the Canucks really loved us, they would start subsidizing Lee Valley Tools!


----------



## bobasaurus

CL, I like the wedged tenons and sweeping curves.

I got the second mortise cut today, took forever again. But at least it's starting to look a bit like a table now:










Here it is with the support rails:










They sort of clash with the look of the legs, but they will be pretty much hidden by the top. I think I'll curve the outer edges of them a bit to make them less jarring.


----------



## rad457

Trying to make a Wall Cabinet, sort of based on the FWW design, being lazy, went with finger joints and B.B. and found out that a joint 13" long is not quite the same as one 4" long! Next one will be solid and D.T.s


----------



## TheFridge

This is true


----------



## CL810

Thanks Allen.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dang Allen- bringin the beef. Looks like something I'd build. Four men and a truck for delivery;-)

Andre, I like finger joints. Is this a tool cabinet?


----------



## johnstoneb

Andre, nice looking cabinet can we see more pictures of it.


----------



## LJRay

Dan, Periodically, I see posts referring to furniture making books that are worth reading. Would you be able to add those to the original post?


----------



## jar944

My first piece of "furniture" its a small bathroom table (not sure what else to call it) 12×12x28 its out of some eab ash ive had sitting around and some red oak spindles. I prefer square tapered legs for a variety of reasons but this was a request from my wife and she vetoed square legs.

It also gave me a reason to use my mortiser for its intended purpose.










Dry fit


















I still need to decide how I'm attaching the top.


----------



## theoldfart

Started the lower stretchers. Unlike the upper ones these will be dowelled instead of M&T


















Jar, kind of a unique mortiser there , nice table though!


----------



## jar944

> Jar, kind of a unique mortiser there , nice table though!
> 
> - theoldfart


LOL thanks, yeah not sure what was going on with my photobucket account.


----------



## theoldfart

RATS….


----------



## putty

Here is a good video on laying out perfect arches. I used CA glue and an excellerator


----------



## byerbyer

Cleaning up some dovetails this afternoon before the Foosball game tonight.

Nice work going on here today fellas. Keep it up.


----------



## theoldfart

Byer, nice job dropping the glue line inside the dovetail. What's it going to be?

A second vote for Red's maple/cherry combination. A chest for my grandson from a few years ago.









The colors have deepened over the last four years.


----------



## byerbyer

OF- It's a dresser/changing table for me soon to be daughter.


----------



## theoldfart

Well congrats then.


----------



## jar944

Decided on the top attachment method. I think it's a bit overkill for a 12×12 top but I wanted to try it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Jar, ya you prolly could've gotten by with just two clips;-)

Kev- That boo-boo is glueable. Looks good from my shop. heh.



> Dan, Periodically, I see posts referring to furniture making books that are worth reading. Would you be able to add those to the original post?
> 
> - LJRay


Sure, I'll add some "Furniture Makers Forum Approved Books" when I get a chance.

And we all know why sunsets are orange and blue don't we? God is a Broncos fan!


----------



## theoldfart

Red, yea it can be glued. Just got aggravated at myself, totally preventable.

Must think THEN do.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Also made a new forum for those interested:

Modern American Hand Tool Forum


----------



## john2005

Finally got the beds done. Now on to the next.


----------



## Pezking7p

Too much good stuff going on and too far behind to comment on all of it.

Love the DTs byer.

Sorry about the box joints Andre, how did you cut them?

Why are end tables so boring??? Trying to stir up some ideas to go with my other arts and crafts/Asian loving ro furniture. Coming up with pretty much the standard a&c side table.


----------



## jmartel

What about Darrell Peart's end table?

http://furnituremaker.com/furniture-portfolio/aurora-end-table-nightstand/


----------



## Pezking7p

Man that's a sweet coffee table. But, still the same end table shape. I guess if there's a lesson to be learned its that the details make the end table. Embellishments galore.


----------



## CFrye

I was looking at an end table earlier, mission style with abalone and copper inlay. Wish I could remember the LJ's name. He hasn't posted since 5/15/15. It was really nice.


----------



## jmartel

Flushed up the lower shelf and the upper rail.

Almost perfect. Little over cut with the saw, and just barely too deep on the dado.


----------



## CFrye

I found the table, well, it's a plant stand and it is Greene and Greene, not Mission style



and in my head that got mixed up with a table, from his blog, on which he was doing inlay…
Both are lovely tables…in my best Miss Emily voice, "Nevermind."


----------



## rad457

Dan the Finger joints were cut with a Dado blade not my new Forrester Finger Box blades, 1/2" 
Box is too small already, not enough room for all my Chisels! LOL!


----------



## byerbyer

Anybody know of a good upholstery tutorial? I got this rocker from my grandfather for the baby's room and the cushion is a bit dated and worn so I'd like to re-upholster it myself.









Couldn't get the dang photo to rotate…

The dust cover is missing on the bottom of the cushion and there isn't any jute webbing for the bottom side of the springs to register against. I may go back with a simple slip cover seat, but I'd like to keep it as original as possible. My daughter will be at least the 4th generation in my family to be rocked in this chair.


----------



## Pezking7p

Damn Jmart, that's a tight dovetail. Hand cut? I had a hard time cutting mine by hand.


----------



## jmartel

Hand cut on the whole joint, yes. I'm hand cutting all the joints on these night stands. Using machines for dimensioning and getting the stock cut to size, though. So far I've been quite happy with how things are going on it, albeit slowly.

I've got a quick commissioned desk that I need to knock out this week. White oak top, 68"x32" and iron pipe legs. Not what I'd prefer to be working on, but gotta get that money to pay some of my medical bills. Picked up lumber yesterday, and hoping to at least get stuff planed down and mostly cut to size tonight. Should be a quick $350 or so in profit for a few hours of work.


----------



## Pezking7p

It would be nice to do a few small commissions, just hard to get excited about them


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, that's my problem. I have no motivation to do it, but I could use the money. The money made off of this quick one pays for the wood for my bed. So, that's how I'm looking at it.


----------



## Sprung

Thanks to those who weighed in on the cherry/maple vs. cherry/walnut! After looking at more pics, I'm still torn, but my wife has spoken. She now says cherry/walnut. So I will for certain have a good reason to make a lumber run down into Red's area of Iowa for some walnut. Even got plenty of time to draw up a final design and figure out what I need - doctor told me to take it easy for a while after tearing a ligament or muscle in my shoulder last week. Been over two years since I last completed a piece of furniture and it seems like every time I try to get back into building something, I keep getting kept from the shop for one reason or another. But, I have big plans for this year - at least a few pieces will come out of the shop this year, now that my shop is just about fully set back up - 3 beds (2 twin, 1 king), possibly a dining table w/ benches, some outdoor patio furniture.


----------



## Brit

> Anybody know of a good upholstery tutorial? I got this rocker from my grandfather for the baby s room and the cushion is a bit dated and worn so I d like to re-upholster it myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Couldn t get the dang photo to rotate…
> 
> The dust cover is missing on the bottom of the cushion and there isn t any jute webbing for the bottom side of the springs to register against. I may go back with a simple slip cover seat, but I d like to keep it as original as possible. My daughter will be at least the 4th generation in my family to be rocked in this chair.
> 
> - byerbyer


Paul Sellers has a two part masterclass on upholstering a seat which you might find useful. Here is a link to Part 1. You will need to register (free) is you haven't already.

https://woodworkingmasterclasses.com/2015/10/upholstery-episode-1/


----------



## byerbyer

Thanks Brit! I'll check that out.


----------



## DanKrager

I've been asked to do something that is out of my area of expertise even though it is woodworking. Customer wants a wooden box to store museum quality 10×13 leather bound cotton fiber paper upon which will be custom printed the family tree. There will be two books in the box which customer wants to open like a business card holder. The first request was to use camphor wood, and the second request was walnut burl. A rather neat idea, but I'm concerned about the interactions between the wood, paper, and leather in a rather tight wooden container over the long term. Museum curators do not like that combination.

Does anyone here have experience in curator style heirloom storage?
DanK


----------



## johnstoneb

Dan;
I would try to get with a museum or a university. They should be able to help you and give you good advice without the contradictions you will probably get here.


----------



## johnstoneb

This is a hobby bench I built from plans in Woodsmith. It came out very well. I am a little disappointed in the drawers. I built everything to the exact dimensions that the plans called for. There is a 1/8" gap at the top and bottom but all the other drawer gaps are at 1/16". I should have done a little math before cutting out the drawer carcase. It is maple and birch plywood.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^I dig it Bruce.

JDove, bustin out the tails….

Matt- I'll find us some walnut. My stash isn't for sale…lol.

One of our LJ buddies got sick of me whining about my cold shop and sold me a 'lectric heater he wasn't using. Works well. Gonna put her to use on my long weekend coming up.


----------



## Sprung

Bruce, I'm liking that hobby bench. Nice work!

Red, yeah, my stash isn't for sale either - especially not that 3 1/4" x 9" x 8' slab of walnut that I got for about $5. My wife has already claimed that piece for big, solid, one piece legs for a future dining table build. I'm hoping that Scandinavian Sawmill checks out for quality and ease of a hobbyist getting lumber from them, because I'm aiming to make a run down there sometime.


----------



## Mosquito

Red, I'll be interested to hear how well that shop heater works, and how much it costs… After a $5k-$6k rough estimate for running a gas line, and installing an NG heater… I've already got 220, and a 100A sub panel so if I won't have to take out a second mortgage to pay for heat, Electric might be the way to go lol


----------



## DanKrager

Mos, would you dare put a small LP tank near the shop?

DanK


----------



## Mosquito

I've thought about that too, if by "small" you mean like 500gal lol


----------



## theoldfart

A little more progress on the night stand(s). Lower cross stretcher mortises are cut and fitted.









From here I need to drill for the dowels on the cross stretchers then on to the top and lower shelf and finally the drawer box.


----------



## john2005

^Dang Kev, thats gotta be all kinds of tricky with those angles.

I think I figured out why I wont ever be able to quit my day job. I am working on a counter with breakfast bar commission. Customer wants it to be 8/4 walnut. Which I just so happen to have stashed away. I had picked it up at an auction a year or so ago for around 60$ for 6 boards that are between 8-10" wide and 6-8' long. I will need 5 boards that are 64" long the way I figure it. I am selling the wood to her for 120, thereby doubling my money. And then I looked up what 8/4 walnut costs around here. It is rough stock, but holy cow am I selling my self way short. You would think I would know. Oh well, they are good friends…


----------



## Pezking7p

> I ve thought about that too, if by "small" you mean like 500gal lol
> 
> - Mosquito


My gas company will lease one to me. Even came and set it up. It can probably sit beside your garage where you never see it. Then you can get a direct vent heater for just a few hundred bucks. Probably have the whole thing installed for under $3,000, maybe less if you get a smaller heater. Not cheap, but a 65,000BTUhr heater will get 'r' done in a hurry, and without much hassle.

By comparison, this is the biggest electric heater I can find. 1/3rd the output of a regularly sized gas heater. It's only $300, but you'd need to run a 220V run dedicated to it. Still, this actually has me thinking about pulling the trigger on the electric heater. I also have a gas space heater I could rig up….hmmmm…

John, well, now you know. I'm sure they'll tell some people and garner you more business 

I was thinking today. In 2015, I only completed two real woodworking projects. My laundry cabinets, and my entertainment center. Now, I realize I also re-did my rental property, as well as re-did my shop, but I'm feeling a little under accomplished. I'd like to get 5-6 major furniture projects completed in 2016. So far on the docket are a coffee table, and end table, and two (thankfully matching) living room lolling chairs. These should take me until at least mid/late summer.

What do you guys consider as a "good" year? What's on The List in 2016?


----------



## jmartel

2-3 big projects seems to be my pattern recently, with some smaller ones mixed in. Last year I did the entertainment center and the murphy bed plus a few smaller things.


----------



## Hammerthumb

> Red, I ll be interested to hear how well that shop heater works, and how much it costs… After a $5k-$6k rough estimate for running a gas line, and installing an NG heater… I ve already got 220, and a 100A sub panel so if I won t have to take out a second mortgage to pay for heat, Electric might be the way to go lol
> 
> - Mosquito


I have 4 of these heaters I could give away. Problem is they are 30kw. 480vac 3phase.










I have looked at converting one to run 5kw or 7.5kw - 240 single phase. Parts would be about $300. Have not pulled the trigger as it's supposed to be 75deg this weekend.


----------



## ToddJB

Do people in Vegas need heaters?


----------



## Mosquito

I'm just hoping to keep my shop at 45 in the winter lol 75 and I'd be looking at A/C units!


----------



## Hammerthumb

> Do people in Vegas need heaters?
> 
> - ToddJB


Not often. It was below freezing here at night for a few days, but has warmed up since.

Had those commercial units for a building stone cladding job we did in the winter a few years ago. They tented the outside of the building and we used the heaters to keep it warm enough for the setting materials to work.


----------



## ToddJB

Hence needing to get rid of them. That makes since.


----------



## DaddyZ

Wow been a while guys n gals. Still making dust just haven't been on here in a while


----------



## johnstoneb

Mos
Take a look at pellet stoves.


----------



## CFrye

Or a saw dust stove!


----------



## rad457

> Or a saw dust stove!
> 
> - CFrye


My sawdust stove is in the house, cut offs, scrapes and the occasional boo boo keep the night chills away! 
Gets a tad chilly up here!
I installed in floor heating with a Electric boiler when I built the shop, did run a gas line just in case but have never connected it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Re: heaters. I only just installed this bugger and I'm optimististic for my needs. Of course, if a guy wanted to keep his shop heated, gas would be the best option. For someone like me who just wants to kick the heater on the mornings of his days off have a decent temp to work….this might is probably sufficient. 
It does require 220v 30mp circuit. Obviously, you have to step it up if you're gonna get more heat than the little 120v heaters you can purchase. Still cheaper than running gas. I'll report back after I get some solid use.

-
Other news, my girls have pine box derby coming up at their Awana's club. The nice folks at the Nazarene church offered "workshops" for dad's who might need assistance cutting or shaping the cars. I smiled and said, "Thanks, but I think we got this."


----------



## johnstoneb

Dan
Years ago I switched my house from electric to gas heat. and moved the old electric furnace to the garage. Just used it for heat when I was working out there and occasionally to thaw cars out. I saw very little change in my power bill when using it, if I had heated the garage continuously it probably would have made a big difference.


----------



## JayT

Red, you sure you can handle a pinewood derby car? I mean, there like no joinery and your LN planes aren't going to be of much use.



> What s on The List in 2016?
> 
> - Pezking7p


Two major projects. First up is a wardrobe for storing my hunting clothing. Thinking about going walnut with eastern (aromatic) cedar panels.

The second is a storage unit inspired by an antique bolt display that is in our office.










I love the whole modular drawer system. One full width cabinet but a variety of different drawer widths and heights that can be mixed and matched to fit needs. Almost like a jigsaw puzzle storage cabinet. Each different section is the same size and the drawer widths are in 1/10, 1/6, 1/5, 1/3 & 1/2 with full and half heights. Don't know that I'm going to do that many combinations. Probably just do 1/2, 1/3 and 1/6 for mine and all the same height, since it will be on a smaller scale.


----------



## Mosquito

> Re: heaters. I only just installed this bugger and I m optimististic for my needs. Of course, if a guy wanted to keep his shop heated, gas would be the best option. For someone like me who just wants to kick the heater on the mornings of his days off have a decent temp to work….this might is probably sufficient.
> It does require 220v 30mp circuit. Obviously, you have to step it up if you re gonna get more heat than the little 120v heaters you can purchase. Still cheaper than running gas. I ll report back after I get some solid use.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I don't want to get this forum thread too derailed, but good to know Red. I look forward to your experiences with it. It wouldn't be the end of the world if I didn't store glue or finish out there either. The garage is wired up on a 100A sub panel, and there is an existing 60A 220v where the previous owner had a welder, so I'd be good there, it's just the electric bill part that has me worried


----------



## Hammerthumb

Red - does that heater have a fan??


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Yup Paul. It has a fan that kicks on and off (internal thermostat) as the 'lectric element heats up.

Bruce, a used 'lectric furnace isn't a bad idea for some guys.

Mos- no worries. Not much furniture making gets done if we're freezin our nards off.

Dang Jay. Lots o' drawers= lots o' hours. But it would be sweet.

2016 production? I'm sure ya'll noticed my woodshop production has slowed with my new job. It's all good. I want to finish this dining set, make a bookshelf and tea storage box for the wifey….then move on to another dining table. We'll see.


----------



## Mosquito

Moves are tiring and take a while to get re-situated as well, even if "unpacking" is done fairly quickly…


----------



## Iguana

> Re: heaters. I only just installed this bugger and I m optimististic for my needs. Of course, if a guy wanted to keep his shop heated, gas would be the best option. For someone like me who just wants to kick the heater on the mornings of his days off have a decent temp to work….this might is probably sufficient.
> It does require 220v 30mp circuit. Obviously, you have to step it up if you re gonna get more heat than the little 120v heaters you can purchase. Still cheaper than running gas. I ll report back after I get some solid use.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead
> 
> I don t want to get this forum thread too derailed, but good to know Red. I look forward to your experiences with it. It wouldn t be the end of the world if I didn t store glue or finish out there either. The garage is wired up on a 100A sub panel, and there is an existing 60A 220v where the previous owner had a welder, so I d be good there, it s just the electric bill part that has me worried
> 
> - Mosquito


I use a 240v heater as the sole source of.heat in my shop. 1400 sf, and it has no problems keeping the shop at 18-20°C (64-68°F") all winter. I work full-time in the shop, so I just leave it on and don't bother turning it down for nights/weekends. It is hard to separate its electrical use from alll the electron-killing machinery, but comparing June's power bill to January's, i'd estimate about $75/month. Maybe a bit more if we have a really cold month.

My shop is really well insulated, though. R-40 walls through a combination of spray foam and exterior foam insulation s. And an R-60 roof. I suspect that if I had a more.normal insulation level, I'd want something more efficient to keep operating costs down.

That being said, I used the same type of heater in the 2-car garage of my previous house, but on an on-demand basis. I think I had calculated the cost at about $40/mo, which was for about 20 hrs/week of run time.

The biggest hassle is dust. My unit is a.non-combustible design, but dust buildup causes it to lose efficiency. Just need.to blow it out once a month or so.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Tapered table legs, check.


----------



## bobasaurus

I've been using a radiant infrared heater from lee valley in my garage. I also finished insulating the walls and ceiling this year, and replacing the doors and windows. So now it stays above 40 F all the time (typically 45-50 F) even in the cold Colorado winters, and the heater raises it about 5-10 degrees an hour. I like to work at about 55 or more.


----------



## lateralus819

As long as I can wear a hoodie and be comfortable I'm cool. Typically 50 does it. Living in NY I'm pretty used to the extreme cold.

Today was -2 this morning, was watching the birds feeding outside with my cats. Can't get how these tiny things don't freeze to death.


----------



## bearkatwood

that kiddo needs an apron that fits.


----------



## Pezking7p

Kid is cute as all get out. Must get it from her mom.

30-35 I'm ok as long as I can wear gloves. If not the heater can get it up to about 45 after an hour or two.


----------



## theoldfart

Looking at -30 with windchill tomorrow. Brisk!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Pez- Ya Pez, they got their mama's looks. Thank you Lord…lol.

Not all was peachy yesterday. Check out this knot that reared its ugly head while cutting the tapers. Dang. It will mostly be hidden by the apron, so I'll fill it with black epoxy and roll with it.


----------



## jar944

The bathroom table is finished.









I'm now working on a set of four stools/backless chairs. Has anyone used poplar for chair aprons and stretchers? These will be painted and all I have laying around is poplar or ash. The ash grain will likely look out of place with the rubber wood legs.










General style my wife wants, though she requested a less "frilly" apron..lol


----------



## jmartel

Poplar is fine. Just a bit soft. For me it's not that much cheaper to buy than other harder wood so I generally don't buy it. I do have some for making drawers and backs for my night stands though.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jar, do you turn the legs yourself?

Gotta love hybrid woodworking. I had my tablesaw all set up for making tenons with a dado blade…..then I realized I forgot to cut the aprons to length! No power miter in my shop. No prob, bust out the ol miter box.


----------



## theoldfart

Kinda like the no tail tool thing Red :









Dowel holes, sixteen in total, so I figured a jig was in orderl


----------



## DanKrager

Red, that unlucky knot looks like a good place for a tapered wooden plug. With a reasonable grain match, that thing would all but disappear, especially if a tiny bit of it was still exposed. Just about the same time investment if you have the plug cutter. If not, NEW TOOL here we come ????

DanK


----------



## jar944

> Poplar is fine. Just a bit soft. For me it s not that much cheaper to buy than other harder wood so I generally don t buy it. I do have some for making drawers and backs for my night stands though.
> 
> - jmartel


Fortunately my poplar supply was both cheap and extensive. Unfortunately it makes me only ever think of poplar first 


















Though after posting the question I ran over to my local hardwood yard and picked up some hickory, birch and a pile of 6' ash shorts .


----------



## jar944

> Jar, do you turn the legs yourself?
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I have a lathe, but these were $4.25 Per leg. Having 16 to make made the decision simple. Well that and there is over a bd foot in each and I could barely buy the stock for that price.


----------



## jar944

Well that took a ugly turn


----------



## theoldfart

Uh oh, time for a bonfire maybe? Hope that stuff is not in your house/shop.


----------



## jar944

> Uh oh, time for a bonfire maybe? Hope that stuff is not in your house/shop.
> 
> - theoldfart


Sigh… it's part of my ash pile in my shop.


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen

Bummer!. Can the boards be sterilized by steaming perhaps?


----------



## theoldfart

The jigs worked quite well.









I used a breast drill and a guide to start the holes, then finished them on the post drill. I had a concern about drilling accurately on a bevel.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Oh no Jar! I've taken in quite a bit of barn wood etc, and am always watchful for critters. But, I've been lucky so far. Your poplar source might not be so good after all;-/

DanK- great minds and all that. That knot hole is so big and lateral….not sure if I'm envisioning what your saying about a tapered plug. 









I was tinkering with dowels…. but I can't decide if I'd make it worse or better with an attempted repair.


----------



## Pezking7p

Damn, beetles suck. I would burn the offending boards and segregate the rest. Watch for dust piles and burn anything infected. Not worth a hundred bucks in lumber to infect the whole pile or future wood you bring in the shop.


----------



## jar944

> Oh no Jar! I ve taken in quite a bit of barn wood etc, and am always watchful for critters. But, I ve been lucky so far. Your poplar source might not be so good after all;-/
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Fortunately the poplar stack is in another location, what really stings is this is all kiln dried ash from the local yard. I ran it all through my planer, only 4 boards all on the same shelf showed signs of the post beetles.

Good night for a fire


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, I think if you drill a 1" hole about half way through the board with a Forstner in an area that is likely to be exposed and press a 1" tapered plug into it, you can't go wrong with that. It's amazing how plugs well aligned just disappear. Using old growth walnut from a corn crib I had to deal with a lot of nail holes. I could cut out most, but there were a few that just could not be avoided. I drilled and plugged with carefully selected tapers and another craftsman could not discover more than one. There were five. The goal is just to present a good surface. If there's still a void beside or under the plug who cares?

Jar, if this is ash, you may be seeing evidence of the ash borer which does not attack other woods by preference. The way to tell for sure is that the ash borer holes are D shaped in cross section. Don't ask me how they do that. Either way you have to deal with it.  It looks to be confined to one edge of the board which would be typical of the ash borer because they normally don't penetrate the heart wood very far if at all. It that's the case, rip off the edge and see what's left. PPB go everywhere and anywhere.

If it is truly powder post beetles, then that's another ball game.

DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Good night for a fire
> 
> - jar944


If you paid a place for that stuff, they oughta make it right though.

Gonna have to think on that one Dan.


----------



## jar944

> Jar, if this is ash, you may be seeing evidence of the ash borer which does not attack other woods by preference. The way to tell for sure is that the ash borer holes are D shaped in cross section. Don t ask me how they do that. Either way you have to deal with it. It looks to be confined to one edge of the board which would be typical of the ash borer because they normally don t penetrate the heart wood very far if at all. It that s the case, rip off the edge and see what s left. PPB go everywhere and anywhere.
> 
> If it is truly powder post beetles, then that s another ball game.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Yeah I originally thought they were ash borer holes

But..


----------



## jar944

> Good night for a fire
> 
> - jar944
> 
> If you paid a place for that stuff, they oughta make it right though.
> 
> Gonna have to think on that one Dan.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I did pay for it but I bought it 2 or 3 years ago.

I 99.9% sure this was my doing. I brought in some air dried walnut in back in August that ended up having power post Beatles in it. Just a small amoun of walnut, and I removed it as soon as I noticed but I guess it was too late


----------



## jmartel

Lots of flattening tonight. 32" x 68" desktop in 5/4 white oak. Going to have iron pipe legs. Not my style, but hey, if people pay me I'll make whatever they want.










This will be the stain.


----------



## summerfi

I have no experience with powder post beetles, but if you sprayed the boards with borate would that kill them?

Red, I would fill the hole with epoxy with walnut sawdust added.


----------



## rad457

Guess that's an advantage of -30 winters, got my pile of Birch curing outside.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well, I blame DanK for putting crazy ideas in my head…lol. I attempted a knot repair today. It's not a homerun, but it isn't bad either. I would've had to do a couple plugs to cover, so I decided on a diamond shaped inlay/plug thingy. I was able to find the correct cuttoff, so the match should have be very good:



























Wuddya think? It'll be right under the apron and probably less eye catching than filling the knot. It wouldn't have been the end of the world to make a new leg, but this one has excellent figure and I wanted to save it.


----------



## summerfi

Well done Red.


----------



## DanKrager

Not bad at all BRK! That is a pretty close grain match! I would be tempted to brush on a bit of Clorox bleach with a tiny brush on the dark shadows around the patch and when the finish goes on it should be as invisible as it can be made. Nicely done.

DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys. It did look a little better before I wiped some oil on it, but I wanted a true test. Might have to address the shadows and such as Dan said. It'll work.

I keep waiting for there not to be snow in the bed of my truck for a lumber run. Probably just gonna have to shovel it out….


----------



## jmartel

Just drive really fast in reverse with the tailgate down and slam on your brakes. Helps if it's been sitting in the sun a bit so the melt reduces friction.


----------



## theoldfart

I think I want to build this


----------



## summerfi

My wife has been begging for one of those for years Kevin.


----------



## theoldfart

Should I make two?


----------



## summerfi

She doesn't have the money. LOL


----------



## ToddJB

Fart, that is an exceptionally nice iteration of a lawyer bookcase. I like it.


----------



## Mosquito

I like it too, and have wanted one for some hand planes.

That get used every day, I swear.

Sometimes.

#NotACollector

^ I lied up there somewhere, but won't say which part!


----------



## TheFridge

The world will never know mos…


----------



## theoldfart

^ maybe, but we do!


----------



## theoldfart

And a little more progress on the night stands. Second set of bores in the legs and









and the big test. Does it line up?









And taaaaadaaaa









I used the same jig as the stretchers before. So two bores down six more to go.


----------



## DanKrager

Re: the lawyers cases.

Building a fairly large set is on my bucket list, partly for my FWW collection, #1 to current. Have two styles in house from relatives, both vintage. Is that unit double wide or singles stacked on a double wide base?

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Double wide Dan


----------



## DanKrager

I'm for sure not gonna do double wide. I'm kinda hoping that the singles won't have to be repacked and couple guys (not gorillas) could still lift them.

Congratulations on the joint fit, TOF!

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

A whole lotta' fun drilling off angle bores by hand.









However the payoff


















Frame joinery is done. Next up Taper the legs and cutaway part of the upper stretchers for a floating top.


----------



## bobasaurus

That sucker looks very complicated to build. Is it cherry?


----------



## theoldfart

Yes, native cherry from a friends farm. 
I designed it about two or three years ago and realized I didn't have the skills to do it at the time! A whole lot of firsts for me on this, the biggest being all hand tools except for the initial stock dimensioning.


----------



## bobasaurus

Wow, it's even more impressive being all hand tools. Are you truing tenon cheeks with a shoulder plane? Or just careful saw and chisel work?


----------



## theoldfart

Saw, skew block(140), and chisel for beveled tenon cheeks.


----------



## DanKrager

TOF, green goo headed your way. That is good stuff.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks, both of you. Here's hoping I don't screw anything up on the curved legs.


----------



## CB_Cohick

That is some nice looking joinery TOF. Toast worthy, I'll drink to that!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Just curious, how are you cutting the curves in the legs Kevin?


----------



## theoldfart

Going to use a bow saw. I hope!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Kudos for pushing yourself on the joinery Kev. It's time consuming, but it makes the piece.


----------



## theoldfart

Thank you Red


----------



## rad457

Still plugging away at some Shop Furniture, looks like I will need a saw till!


----------



## theoldfart

The cabinet looks good. Be fun filing it with toy er I mean tools.


----------



## Pezking7p

Nice angled work, Kev. Looks good. This is a round top, right? I think it's kind of Stickley-ish.

Andre the Giant, that cabinet looks beast. Does the door cover the whole front? It's hard to tell from the picture.

Met with my potential first client last night. His wife wants two storage benches to fit in little crannies on either side of his fireplace. Very simple, plywood boxes with pocket screws, painted w/ a hinged top, basic trim on the bottom to match their fireplace mantle. But I'm coming up with like $250 in materials and 10 hrs to build, putting me at what I consider to be a modest $500 for the pair of benches. I looked these things up online and you can buy one that looks very nice for like $100-150. Am I crazy for asking for $250/ea??

Second related question, can a cut plywood edge be filled, sanded, and painted? I assume the answer is yes, but I would hate to learn this while painting.


----------



## DanKrager

Pez, yes plywood edges can be filled for painting, but if there are voids they are troublesome due to filler shrinkage. And unless you get fanatic about it, the layers will still manage to show through. Plaster of Paris or Durhams Water Putty is your friend here because it sets up quickly and is very easily sanded. The moisture raises the grain on the first coat which is easily sanded out. Other wood fillers can be used of course, but there are storage and solvent problems.

The best edge treatment for plywood painting is actually a wood edge band. It's more durable and serviceable when it does get damaged. And very easily painted.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, floating rectangle top and lower shelf. A drawer box suspended below the top stretchers. Spalted maple front on the drawer.


----------



## rad457

Kevin, think I will need a saw till as got enough tools to fill it already!

Pez, only one door showing, I put solid Birch on all the plywood edges and will add some Walnut trim/bling to the door edges to hide plywood. Make her flat and smooth, lots of glue and a few brads and job done!


----------



## jmartel

Pez, not crazy. That's what it costs to build. I'd be willing to bet that the cheaper ones online are particleboard. Plus, the ones online might not be the size they want, for instance. It is custom, after all, regardless if it's a Doucette and Wolfe piece or a plywood box with pocket holes. If they say no, no big deal. I've learned to stop caring what people think about my prices. If they want something cheaper, they are free to find someone else to do it. I'm busy enough as it is.

And as Dan said, I'd do iron on edge banding rather than filling ply. Trim it up, paint it.


----------



## Waldo88

I finally finished shaping the sides of the loveseat I'm working on, that took some serious time. Then I cut out the 3 structural stretchers. I got a pic with 2 of them, clamps holding it together, and its starting to look like a loveseat. I also cut all the slats for the back, which took quite some time as I hand sized each one from pieces of rough lumber. I picked up some cherry from the lumberyard, but it is light, plain and boring, best they had tho, the rough stuff I have looks much better (you can kinda see it on the front stretcher, the back stretchers are lumberyard cherry), so I used it for the slats.



















Next up, drill the dowels in the stretchers and slats to connect them, shape the slats and inner parts of the stretchers, and glue them up. Then on to the joints to join the back to the sides and the front stretcher to the sides.

The only pieces I have left to cut is the 4 pieces that make up the lower cushion support. Using lumberyard cherry for that.


----------



## bobasaurus

That looks like a ton of work, Waldo.


----------



## byerbyer

Looking sharp, Kev. That's going to be an awesome piece.


----------



## theoldfart

Byer, thanks


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Waldo- Superb! I'm itching to make some sculpted stuff like that.

Pez- the age old question. If it doesn't bug you to make stuff on the side for $5-10 /hr, you can come down on the price. Up to you. Try to explain the difference in what you're making vs. what they'd buy elsewhere.

Also, do yourself a huge favor and get A-1 cabinet grade ply- not the stuff from the borgs. It will stay flat and won't have much voids if any.


----------



## Pezking7p

Bid accepted for the pair of benches. I guess I'm a professional woodworker now. Plus I have another request, though I'm not sure what it's for yet.

Update on tack trunk. Sorry for double posting from SOTS.










Roughed these out on the band saw and finished the rest with sandpaper. Really not half as bad as I expected.










The little 1/8" plugs were a dubious endeavor but I really like them. 









One more inlay tomorrow and it's ready for finish. Should be done by next weekend.


----------



## jmartel

Beware of the slippery slope, Pez. Now it's quite easy to justify tool purchases. "Oh, well my profit off of this commisison is X. For that money, I can buy these tools that will make it easier."

I spent all the money I made off of the entertainment center on a table saw and track saw to build said entertainment center.


----------



## theoldfart

Glued up a couple of leg blanks to test out a couple of different tapers.

The working shot









The staged shot









Seems SWMBO wants to opine on the design!


----------



## bearkatwood

Nice job oldfart, I like your drills.. a LOT

I hate bugs in wood more than anything!! Those little suckers. GRRRR!


----------



## theoldfart

Brian thanks


----------



## bobasaurus

I have a couple design questions for you all, if you wouldn't mind giving me a hand.

I've posted these before, but for reference here is the slab top for my table:










And here is the in-progress base:

Without supports:









With supports:









First off, I'm debating putting a roundover profile on the edges of the table legs. At first, I thought a large-radius roundover would soften the sharp edges and make it look cleaner… but now I'm wondering if it would look odd having a smooth-edged base with a sharp-edged top. I could go with something in-between, like a small roundover, or just leave it square I guess. What do you all think would look good for those monster legs?

Next, I'm currently gluing up two walnut boards to make a shelf that will ride on top of that maple rail (with a few supports joined in first). What shape would look best for this shelf? I'm thinking either a large oval or a rounded rectangle. It is made from 5/4 stock and will be > 8" wide after the glue-up.

I also need to do some shaping on those maple supports for attaching the top. Maybe a Nakashima-ish angle cut on the sides? Or possibly a curvey shape?

Finally, I'm wondering about the finish. Never done a large walnut slab before. I'm thinking maybe arm-r-seal gloss, possibly with a satin final coat if too glossy.

Thanks for any suggestions.


----------



## jmartel

Allen,

For the legs, personally I'd consider using a very large roundover, but leaving it short so it doesn't do the full radius. Maybe enough for the sides to come down at a 45 degree angle to the sides with a flat in the middle? I did something similar on the guitar stand that I built (in my projects). I think that would look good with the slabs.

Shelf I think should curve inwards. So, make each end wider than the middle, like the top.


----------



## jmartel

Desk is finished. Delivery tomorrow morning. Finish is Arm-R-Seal satin followed by paste wax applied with #0000 steel wool. I'm starting to get half-way decent with my finishes now, I think.

On the phone the guy receiving this already said he may be wanting a large custom bookcase later on this year. Hopefully it's solid wood. I really don't like working with plywood much.


----------



## jar944

Working on the stools some more. I spent most of the time milling this hickory into flat square boards. The aprons and stretchers are to final dimensions. I figured I would try out what should be a Fast and very accurate way for cutting tenons. It worked so well I ended up ordering two narrower rabbeting heads to cut both sides at once.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Allen- For me edge profile is all about which ever style your going with. A&C, modern…would have square edges etc. Just looking at that base, I'd want some roundover, but not a big one. Don't think it's a big deal either way though.

Jar, never seen tenons made on a shaper before.



> Beware of the slippery slope, Pez. Now it s quite easy to justify tool purchases. "Oh, well my profit off of this commisison is X. For that money, I can buy these tools that will make it easier."
> - jmartel


LOL. How the heck do you think I ended up with a shop full of nice tools!


----------



## Pezking7p

Shapers terrify me. I can hardly use my router without blowing up wood. I would probably lose an arm if I tried to use a shaper.


----------



## jar944

> Shapers terrify me. I can hardly use my router without blowing up wood. I would probably lose an arm if I tried to use a shaper.
> 
> - Pezking7p


That's actually how I ended up with two shapers. I bought the first one then realized a power feeder would be a lot safer. When looking for a power feeder I ended up finding a bigger shaper (5hp, tilting, sliding table) with a feeder for what I was planning on spending for just the feeder.

I will say a 7" cutter head spinning at 6000 RPM will make you pay attention.


----------



## bobasaurus

jmartel, that seems like a good idea. So the edges of the legs would look kind of like a cambered plane iron… slightly curvy, but not extending all the way around. I like it, I'll play with the idea. Thanks.

Looks like clean work on that desk top. Is it veneered or solid? Either way, that's way bigger than I'd like to attempt.


----------



## jmartel

Solid white oak on the desk top. 6/4, finished thickness is around 1".

Some veneering goals here. Think I could manage it?


----------



## TheFridge

Anything is possible. That is an eff load of work.


----------



## WhoMe

Yea, that is a while lot of work. 
Personally…..ewwwwwww
Not a fan of the veneer or especially the legs. But that is me and my tastes.
Now a different veneer or solid wood with legs that don't look like Pans harps. Then it would look nice to me. 
Still a lot of work there.


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, it's definitely not a style I'd have in my house. But still impressive to look at. I can appreciate the amount of work that went into veneering that whole thing. My guess is that it is a desk for a music composer, hence the legs. The hinged writing surface would suggest that as well.


----------



## bearkatwood

Oh Babasaurus! youz gots sumtin' cookin dare! Shore enuf do look good! O.K. so that's my best attempt at a Cajun accent typing. Why?? Why not 

I think that bench is going to look great when you get it done, can't wait to see it. I am sure you struggled with the color choice on the dutchmen, It really could have gone either way, but I like it.
Hey you know what might look cool is to inlay walnut into the dutchmen a little smaller.? maybe? might look cool.









Oh and yes Jmartel, that will be a duckbutt load of work!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jmarts recent project reminds me of these legs the Osborne offers:










https://www.osbornewood.com/13003.aspx

I'd like those on the right piece.


----------



## bobasaurus

Bearkat, double dutchman sounds like a good band name  .

Red, I've never really liked hairpin legs… too modern for my tastes. They would be easier than making a base, though.


----------



## woodcox

I finally started my roorkhee. 1 3/4" legs ready for the lathe resawed from a 16/4 walnut billet. Other than the hide work, this project should go pretty quick.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Wood to the Cox- How'd I miss your building a roorkhee? I read Schwarz's Campaign Furniture and that was one project that I was interested it. Building from a plan?



> Red, I ve never really liked hairpin legs… too modern for my tastes. They would be easier than making a base, though.
> 
> - bobasaurus


I don't mind the look. But ya, find a good slab, bolt on $100 worth of legs…..and you have a table. Pretty easy.


----------



## JayT

Roorkhee chair is also on the list of things I want to build at some point. Keep us posted with your progress, WC.


----------



## woodcox

I have his DVD on it and the issue from popular woodworking. Read everything but his campaign furniture book. From his first chair to the last ones he has changed several details. I was trying copy the profile from his most recent leg and messed up fairing a curve. Luckily, I just cut it away down to the original plans diameters. Here's where I'm at…









Three more to match has me sweating. 
ed: it looks like ass because the old milky MS started to dry before I decided to take the pic.


----------



## Pezking7p

LOL @ milky MS. Never seen a roorkhee chair before but it looks kinda cool. Looking forward to more seating objects being created in here.

So, I've been using hide glue on my greene and greene tack trunk because I thought it wouldn't show in finishing. I guess I misunderstood because I put the first coat of poly on tonight and sho nuff I've got a few glue splotches. I guess I should have been more careful cleaning it up during assembly, but I honestly thought it wouldn't show. I guess its back to good ol' tite bond.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ "Invisible to most finishes" hasn't always been as good as I hoped too Pez. Still learning the stuff myself. Couple things so far:
- Hide glue spots comes off way easier than yellow glue. just a little sand paper, water, or card scraper (my pref)
- if you have a big blob, use water….or it will pull out the grain…..like most glues. 
- if you're going straight to poly, you'll have to wipe over with min spirits or water to see spots. 
- some finishes, especially wipe on or water-based won't be affected.

Even a coat of poly on, try to hit those spots with a card scraper, or one of tiny sandpaper thingys. Worked on the few spots I had on my chairs.


----------



## john2005

> Nice job oldfart, I like your drills.. a LOT
> 
> I hate bugs in wood more than anything!! Those little suckers. GRRRR!
> 
> - bearkatwood


Regarding bugs, I was working on a piece the other day and using lumber that I knew had beetle larvae in it. But it was what was requested. Luckily I my final dimension was 24" so I cut it to 25", put in in the oven at 250 for a couple hours with only the broiler element on so that it cleared the wood. (also had to go in diagonal but it fit) It warped the board, but the bugs are dead. I just cut the board apart, planed, rejointed, and reglued. Back in business. Hope that helps you.


----------



## byerbyer

Nice work on here of late gents. No wood worky for me of late as babywatch 2016 is in full effect. I did manage to make a new slip seat for the chair I posted awhile back. 








Here it is in it's new home. Not bad for my first rodeo. I read Michael Fortune's article in FWW & watched Paul Seller's video Brit linked to. I think it turned out pretty well for my first attempt. The wife likes it so that's all that really matters!
Cheers.


----------



## jmartel

Pez, if you get any HHG on parts you can clean it up with hot water and a sponge or a rag. then it won't affect finishes. I haven't had a problem so far.


----------



## Pezking7p

Dang, I like that rocking chair. Reminds me of an old one my grandma had.

I guess it's live-and-learn with the hide glue. Since my shop is away from my house, I have trouble getting water, especially hot water, out there. BUT, i have a spare electric water boiler I'll move out there for just such an occasion. Just need to be more diligent about wiping the hide glue. It's nice that you can still wipe after it's dry, too.

Speaking of hide glue. I tried Old Brown Glue. I do not like that I have to warm it up to use. So I bought Titebond Liquid Hide Glue, but what arrived is a bottle that just says Genuine Hide Glue, and does not use the words "liquid" on the packaging. Are these the same?

Upcoming: Coffee Table and End Table to match my other end table and entertainment center. I haven't drawn all the finish details (like chamfers) but the layout and shapes are all there. Thoughts? Critiques? My wife instantly loved the end table, which could either be a good sign or a bad sign. Just looking for some feedback.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^The titebond genuine hide glue is the right stuff pez. It will solidify much under 50 degrees. Doesn't hurt it though. I just bring a glass of warm tap water out to the shop a put the bottle in there for a few. I prefer the titebond too, although I like to support small companies like Old Browne.

I like the fact that I can control the thickness/viscosity of hide glue with the temp. Hot=thin. Room temp to cold=thicker.


----------



## jmartel

I used some of that titebond liquid hide glue last night. Still have to warm it up, Pez. Way too thick to try and squeeze out at least in the current weather. I ended up just tossing it into my glue pot filled with water for a bit. Made it nice and thin.


----------



## Nugs

I'm going to have to give hide glue a try on my next piece of furniture, it seems to be all the rage as of lately. Put it on the list for the next Lee Valley order.

I'm too excited not to share these pics. My secretary desk 99% complete, I'm just waiting on a couple knobs and hinges to go in the gallery. I'll take some better pics when I move it upstairs and get it in some natural light, it'll look way better than my garage lighting.



















It's taken me just under 4 months, which seemed like a really long time to me. But then I was talking to my wife and my very first coffee table I built 3 years ago took 4 months, so looking back, it's not too bad.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Schwarz pops his in the microwave for 5-10 sec. Prolly not recommended by titebond….but it works.

Don't forget to bathe them blades boyz. Dang resin.


----------



## Pezking7p

lol the thought of putting mine in the microwave crossed my mind yesterday! I thought it would warm up enough in my pocket…not so.

NUGS!! Holy crap what an amazing amount of work. I wish I could say it was worth your time but that desk is just so-so…..JUST KIDDING. That thing is sweet. I love the wood on the lid/cover, the little "love marks" make it pop imo. Kind of puts me in mind of the furniture in beauty and the beast.


----------



## CL810

Dang Nugs, that's some awesome there! What's the wood?


----------



## jmartel

Damn, Nugs. Looking good.


----------



## bobasaurus

That is very nice work Nugs. Carving the legs must have taken forever.


----------



## Nugs

Thanks guys. It's made out of cherry. What do you mean by "love marks"? The dark gum spots of the cherry?

The legs probably took 2 to 3 hours each, so it was definitely longer than a standard square or tapered leg, but not too crazy.


----------



## Pezking7p

Yah, Nugs, I mean the dark spots. I usually see them as hard, mineralized areas, never knew what they are called but I like them a lot.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^ Hate beat a dead horse with the hide glue (lawl), but reversibility is sweet feature. It'll save your "hide" eventually (I'll stop now.)

PVA has its advantages, but as David Savage said, "We've created an entire generation of furniture that cannot be repaired."

Props to the Nugs.


----------



## jar944

Dry fit up of the stools


----------



## jmartel

Looks great, Jar.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yepper. Looks good Jar.

So, last week I visited a monster cabinet shop down the road. I was gonna see if they'd sell me some cherry for my tabletop. Then, I could see big panels they had against the wall. So I said, "hey, how about edge gluing some 5/4 cherry for me and running it through your huge drum sander?" #tempting shortcut

The table panels aren't huge because it has a leaf. The biggest being 24" wide. Thought it would work out, but the sales dude is taking forever to give me a price. Not sure they're enthused about a tiny job. We'll see.

The base is all dryfit. Maybe a pic when LJs gets fixed.


----------



## bearkatwood

On the subject of hide glue, here is a good tip for saving it.


----------



## Iguana

I'm working on a dining room table that has a pretty funky leg design. It was crazy time today to get the angles cut exactly right so the pieces fit together without gaps. All I can say is that the Incra 1000SE miter gauge with the 1/10° vernier scale rocks!










Close-up:










The leg will be rounded in the front of that joint, so the gap will be cut off.

The joinery will be slip tenons connecting all three pieces. 2 per joint, with rotated grain orientation so as not to create a potential failure along a grain line. The shape will be kind of crazy, cutting the mortises even more so.

I usually create mortises using a simple mortising fixture and a router, but that approach is more suitable for fairly basic, straight-on mortises for pieces of wood that meet in a straight line at right angles. As I was contemplating the setups involved, I decided to bite the bullet and make a horizontal mortiser. I've wanted to make one for a few years but could never justify the time needed to make one. I've got a good excuse now, and it is something that I'll use on nearly every project I do. Justified!

A couple of quick sketches to get the basic dimensions and a trip into town to pick up some hardware and plywood. Need some pieces that are 1" thick, so I left a few laminations in the vacuum press overnight. If all goes well, I should have it completed tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## jar944

I threw together a upholstered seat just to see how it would come together, I'm not totally happy with the proportions. I think it's feels too wide for its height.


----------



## john2005

Now that we can see pics again, I can see what everybody was fussin about. Nice work nugs!

Those are some tight joints Mark.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Quick question on the liquid hide glue - I've seen it mentioned that HHG does a nice job of lubing joints, as opposed to making tight joints bind a little, does liquid hide glue have the same slippery properties?


----------



## putty

Table is coming along, need to refine the stretcher and pegs. It is a counter top height (36") Base will be painted black, top and stretcher will be stained. 
Top and stretcher are reclaimed redwood decking. Pretty soft but Wife wanted something rustic…it was free too!


----------



## CL810

Table looks really nice putty. The aesthetics are great.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mark Kornell is a pimp.



> Quick question on the liquid hide glue - I ve seen it mentioned that HHG does a nice job of lubing joints, as opposed to making tight joints bind a little, does liquid hide glue have the same slippery properties?
> 
> - WillliamMSP


The working qualities are virtually the same, withstanding the heat factor.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Thanks, Red.


----------



## jmartel

Putty, that looks great.

I'm a bachelor this weekend while my wife is out of town, so I'm hoping to make some good progress on the nightstands. I should at least be able to get the drawer divider in both, and hopefully get the doors built for both. Not expecting to get the drawers done this weekend, though.

Will be gluing up the second nightstand tonight once the glue warms up.










I'm also picking up the timbers for my bed tomorrow. Couple of 6×6's and some 4×6's. Still need to find some good quality 2×4's and 2×8's. The timber frame company I'm buying from didn't have anything that small.


----------



## Iguana

> Mark Kornell is a pimp
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Shhhhh…. Don't tell my wife 

Not quite finished the horizontal router. Put some poly on all the subassemblies at the end of the day today, just need to bolt the pieces together and mount the router. Then back to productive work…


----------



## bobasaurus

Working on supports for the shelf:










They're attached with a large lap joint:



















I think I'll sneak a screw in through the top as well, since it will be hidden by the shelf anyways. I'll profile the support later to look fancier, and add slots for bolting on the shelf.


----------



## TheFridge

Nugs, awesome.

Jar, Vanderpump Rules isn't allowed in the shop unless you're wife is there watching in order for you to get shop time. Then it's acceptable.

Any opinions on scraper planes? Namely the 112 style by LN or Veritas? Thinking about getting one but I'd like to hear first hand what it's all about.


----------



## TheFridge

Finishing the bottom of a table top and some little joinery.

#doublefisting


----------



## lateralus819

Fridge- Whats that rig on the left of the marking knife?


----------



## DanKrager

Fridge, I got a vintage 112 and it upped my game. I use it quite a bit to final level a surface that I don't want plane marks in. It saves a lot of time and sand paper. It's about like a plane to fettle and use in terms of what needs to be done to make and keep it usable. It handles cantankerous grain, and at the moment it's the only tool that will do so other than my trusty and very sharp paint scraper.

Go get one.

DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Saw this the other day…hafta do this:









DanK


----------



## TheFridge

Lat, that is my router plane. The only thing I know about it is the old fella I bought it from said he believes it's from the UK and he thought it was parted out of a tool chest.

Dan, as far as sharpening and such. Does it last a bit longer than a regular scraper? I guess that's one of the main answers I'm looking for. If I would typically have to sharpen it about as many times as a normal scraper during the course of a project I'll prob look for another tool to buy next.


----------



## john2005

Not exactly furniture, but its my latest commission. Glad to have it done. Tempered, replaceable glass, dim-able led lighting, made to match the existing trim in the cafe. Used that pre-cat urethane from General Finishes again. I am liking that stuff. I'll put it on my projects page when its not so late.


----------



## jar944

> Jar, Vanderpump Rules isn t allowed in the shop unless you re wife is there watching in order for you to get shop time. Then it s acceptable.


Hahahahah.. I had to double check the pic. My wife was in fact the one who was watching.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Lol on the stool sample DanK. Ahh….furniture maker humor.

Nice job on the commission John. Did you get paid in muffin tops?

Passed the captain's chair clearance test:


----------



## TheFridge

Coming together nicely big red one

Jar, we forgive you. No one is questioning how I know that is Vanderpump Rules… Women and the stuff they watch. It gets me shop time too so I can't hate.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Any opinions on scraper planes? Namely the 112 style by LN or Veritas? Thinking about getting one but I d like to hear first hand what it s all about.
> 
> - TheFridge


Scrapers are such a preference thing. I love card scapers, but rarely ever used my LN 112… so I sold it. I admit, the 112s with a thinner blade that can flex like a no80 (vintage or Veritas) make more sense to me.


----------



## DanKrager

There's nothing magic about the metal in the 112 scraper blade so it's going to wear just as fast as any other blade. I like a scraper holder because my hands are no longer strong enough to do big scraping projects with a card scraper. The plane like body helps with very large surface encouraging flatness. I'm not saying they're superior to anything else, I just like to use it because it's easier for me to control for longer periods of time. 
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Makes sense Dan. Do you bow the blade with the little thumbsrew on yours? I dig that feature on a Stanley no 80. The LN 112 has a really thick blade, so that wasn't possible. I couldn't get into that tool, but other guys love it. I'd like to mess around more with a vintage or Veritas 112 someday.

For now I rely on my incredibly strong….freckled hands. lolol.


----------



## jmartel

> For now I rely on my incredibly strong….freckled hands. lolol.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Sounds like a bad case of gingervitus.

Didn't realize until today but I had to add more drawer guides to accommodate the new layout that my wife changed to. Doubled up on the upper one.










Both are gluing up now.


----------



## john2005

Hahaha @ muffin tops. Base is lookin good.

I have a #12 but I can't ever get the thing to work as nice as a card scraper. Probably cause its such a pain so I don't use it much, making the tuning all the longer. I dunno


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, I don't see any means to curve the blade on this thing, assuming you were asking me…maybe not. And it is a replacement blade from Pinnacle, which seems to do OK.


















DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Well huh Dan! Maybe it's just the Veritas 112 that does that. Thought the vintage did too. My mistake.

2min mark in this video….so you don't think I'm smokin crack:


----------



## DanKrager

Heft and Hubris meets Heft. 









Couldn't find my 3" bull nose cutter for the 55 (  so I had to use these bull nose cutters. Rather quick too, but my arms hurt!










And then I had to erase the circular marks. So I used the circular mark eraser, straightening the circular marks into linear marks.










And for those who have wondered why the front of that little plane is removable.









DanK


----------



## jar944

I made all these tennon seeds. I hope to plant them in the spring.

Or maybe not


----------



## bearkatwood

he he he


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^hehehe. Or ya just goofed.

Nice post DanK. Sorry for the false testimony about your scraping plane.

Word on the street: Highland Woodworking will soon be carrying David Barron's Dovetail guides.


----------



## TheFridge

That is my kind of humor BK 

So, it's sounds like it a good plane for its purpose but I could use a flat LN router plane more than a 112.


----------



## jmartel

Dry fitup of the first drawer divider. Just the forward one tonight. Nice and tight.



















Getting some sort of parallax error in the second photo. The legs are straight, not curved inwards.


----------



## vikingcape

Ahhhh. Thanks all, I needed these last couple of hundred posts. Sorry haven't commented much. Haven't had the money to be building any large furniture lately so I have been focusing on turning and smaller stuff. This breathes life into me just reading all of this. Hopefully be working on a dresser and makeup table soon.

I have to say Red and Jmartel you two have been pushing the envelope from what you have done before. Great work guys


----------



## jmartel

Been trying to push myself past my comfort zone on these nightstands. There's a lot of times I'm like "this isn't so hard. It's going great." And then last night putting in other dividers I ended up with a bunch of unsightly gaps. You win some, you lose some. A wedge or two and some glue should fill it in. Still have a way to go until I'll be happy with my abilities.

I will say, having just rewatched a couple Doucette & Wolfe videos, I have seen a few areas where they overcut a few small areas here and there, which makes me feel better. Granted, 95-98% of their work is perfect, whereas I'm more like 50/50 right now, but still.


----------



## pintodeluxe

Martel,
Good looking sliding dovetails. Do you have experience with both housed and standard sliding dovetails? I have only used the standard variety of dovetails, without a square shoulder. Any preferences or observations there?


----------



## jmartel

I'm probably the wrong person to ask. This is my first real project with any kind of dovetails so I can't be much help. I'm certainly getting lots of practice though. I'm up to 24 so far between the two and haven't started the drawers yet.

I can at least take a few more photos of what I'm doing tomorrow night. Won't be able to work on it tonight. Can't say that it's the right way to do it, just how I'm doing it.


----------



## DanKrager

I thought it might be of interest to see what I did today to make massive blind double tenons for a commissioned bench. Same customer wants a cute little box for medicines. It's about done too, but I'll put up a picture after it is finished.








DanK


----------



## Waldo88

Finally, one more night of working on the slats for the back of the loveseat I'm working on, then I can move on to finishing the joints that attach the back and the front stretcher.










Each slat (15 total, 14 done, 1 to go) was manually shaped with a spokeshave, file, and hand sanding.

I'm gluing each one individually (the top at least, the bottom will be glued all in one go) to ensure tight joints and perfect alignment.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dang DanK, those are some big arse tenons.

Thanks Kaleb, you've been missed. For me, JMarts like the little brother you loved to pick on. Eventually he'll likely leave me in the dust, but I'm gonna keep giving him wedgies until then.

Pretty sure the cabinet shop snubbed me. I'll make make own stinkin tabletop. My OCD had trouble trusting someone else's grain selection anyway.


----------



## jmartel

I don't know about that, Red. I got a ways to catch up.

My eventual goal is to be able to charge prices close to D&W. $4-5k for a dresser sounds good to me.


----------



## ToddJB

That's what I currently charge for dressers

I've not made a sale yet though.


----------



## jmartel

I got $2700 for the walnut entertainment center I built last year. Should have charged way more, but was doing a friend a big favor. Anyone else would have been charged an extra $1k probably.


----------



## byerbyer

I built a crib for a couple years ago for friends. I had $600-ish in materials and a whole bunch of hours. I modeled it after a design from that retails for $1500-2000 depending on materials. They won't sell it, but I told them not to let go of it for less than $3K.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I have slowly inched my prices up, and I've finally reach the point that if they don't like the price…..no sweat, I won't build it. There's other stuff I can do. I still don't charge enough though.

Just some brackets for the table top. 









Can't remember if I've posted this, but this is the leaf mech I'm using.


----------



## DanKrager

Don't remember seeing that leaf mechanism posted here. Neat, aren't they? I've even tried to "roll my own" on a set of those. I recommend buying them!

I documented the blind wedged double tenon assembly a bit over here.

I just quoted and got the commission to build a 48×120 x 12"H stage platform at $1872. Egg crate construction using Baltic birch. Some exercise gym in Chicago. Two pieces bolted together. Smitty, Kunz is getting it for me so I'll be over tomorrow or Monday to get it.









DanK


----------



## bobasaurus

Making some deep and narrow slots for long screws using a drill press and chisels/rasps:










Hand carved oval recesses for the flat heads (I'm not the best at carving, but they came out okay for something semi-hidden under the table):


----------



## RGtools

> I have slowly inched my prices up, and I ve finally reach the point that if they don t like the price…..no sweat, I won t build it. There s other stuff I can do. I still don t charge enough though.
> 
> Just some brackets for the table top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can t remember if I ve posted this, but this is the leaf mech I m using.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I understand your stance on pricing. I recently had a client wanting me to do a job for less than my bid (which I knew was about half the price of my competition). I explained that if they can find someone to do the job at the caliber I can, at the price they want, it was my professional advice to utilize their services.

They hired me at my price.


----------



## bearkatwood

I would love to charge prices that are realistic to the hours that go into my work, but it would be stupid expensive. It is better than years ago when it felt like I would pay them to be able to build something. 
Nice work Bobasaurus.
I understand where you are coming from Red, just them them to drop a Benjamin every time your hand touches the wood  you deserve it Mr Midas. All hail king diddle diddle.


----------



## jmartel

For the bed, I was originally thinking of doing a wedged ramped M&T to connect the rails to the headboard/footboard. Thinking I might chicken out on that now and just use hardware. Would certainly save a whole ton of time and effort. Plus, cleaning out an angled non-through mortise wouldn't be very fun.

Thoughts?


----------



## DanKrager

Jchicken, I think if you're going to claim a spot in the hand tool forum, you should chop the tenon. (Rattling cage) It's not that hard, man. I just chopped out those blind wedged double tenon and if I can do it you can do it. The blind part (not through) makes it stressful. No worries in your case…go for it! It'll go more quickly than you think, he says.

DanK


----------



## jmartel

Here's what I'm talking about Dan. Doable, but going to take a lot longer than installing hardware, of course.










http://timberframehq.com/wedged-mortise-and-tenon-joint/


----------



## DanKrager

At first I thought the wedging was backwards, but I see how it works now. Depending how rough you plan to be on it ) I'd bet this is more durable…? I'm still pushing for it.

If you want it to be time consuming, challenging and stressful, turn that wedge around and let it spread the tail as you drive it home.

DanK


----------



## ToddJB

Can you take it apart once it's together? I would want a big ol honking frame that had to be moved in one piece


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well. look at that fancy pants joint. Could be removable if you left the wedge long.

Picked up the cherry for the table top today. This weekend I'll be wishin I had Matt Wolfe's 20" jointer….


----------



## jar944

Had a little bit of time tonight and managed to get all the tenons recut for the stools.






<param


----------



## jmartel

Yes, this would be more stout than hardware.

Has to be able to take it apart. No way to get the bed out of the room otherwise. Have to figure out how I want to do that. Maybe another keyway to drive a second wedge in to push it out?

Picked up the last of the wood tonight. Bunch of 2×8's out of a 100 year old house. Super tight growth rings.










Think I have enough? Should be enough for a sawbench or two in there as well.










EDIT: Jar, that's a good video. I could definitely see that being useful. Actually, I could see one custom ground for sliding dovetails for use on casework dividers being extremely useful. Cut the dado by hand, but that would speed up production quite a bit.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Jar- you can use the youtube link and an embed code to copy and paste here: http://www.vtubetools.com/
Uploading vids in this site hasn't worked for awhile. Had problems with trolls.

Jmart- I dunno, a big M&T joint reinforced with some bedbolts(or other hardware) is pretty darn strong.


----------



## bearkatwood

O.K. Red so I just watched this linky thing you had in the last comment for embedding. It was a silent screen shot of some jackrabbit squirreling around the screen like his mouse was on fire. I like the silent films, but they have the tech now to make "talkies", I am old-ish and dumbish so I need a little more info if I am to embed something. I am going to give that one a thumbs down  Maybe there is another source?


----------



## jar944

OK 2nd try.


----------



## bearkatwood

That is a best! You got video to work, I would like to know how you did it. The embedding thing is beyond my capabilities. For crying out loud I am a woodworker not a nasa engineer. Throw me a frickin' bone here, like Austin Powers would say.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> O.K. Red so I just watched this linky thing you had in the last comment for embedding. It was a silent screen shot of some jackrabbit squirreling around the screen like his mouse was on fire. I like the silent films, but they have the tech now to make "talkies", I am old-ish and dumbish so I need a little more info if I am to embed something. I am going to give that one a thumbs down  Maybe there is another source?
> 
> - bearkatwood


Heh. It's not that bad. 
Scroll past the demo at the top. 
Copy the youtube link (www.youtub…) from another tab, and paste it where it says "Put video URL here…." 
Scroll lower and click "get code" 
It'll give you a long code that looks like this….

"allowscriptacce....

Copy and paste that entire code in the LJs window. 
Done.


----------



## Pezking7p

Jmart I think that wedge will be hard to remove. Maybe you can design the wedge so it can be pried out with a pry bar-like device? I still wonder if this setup will tension the side rail enough to keep the bed from wobbling under use.

Can you do a tusked tenon on the inside? Might have to do something creative but I can see how it could work. This would also be sure to put the side rail under tension, which will add to bed stiffness.

I've been bad about sharing the details of my tack trunk build here. Mostly because there was about 15% furniture making and 85% sanding. If you're thinking about building Greene and Greene style furniture, remember that 90% of your time will be spent sanding. I didn't find this super enjoyable beyond the design aspects, and since most of the design is copied, I can't claim much credit for that, either. Should be finished though in a day or two next week.

Commissions. Like most of us, my time is limited and precious. I've decided to charge for commissions what I think my free time is worth. Customer be damned. I do worry about my ability to quote bigger jobs accurately. How to estimate whether a build will take me 40 hrs or 60 hrs? I'm not that experienced yet to say the least. I flip back and forth between wanting to do paid work and wanting to avoid it. I guess if I could get a new table saw and jointer it would be worth it.


----------



## rad457

Had a few request but usually I tell them if you want to spend $29.95 go to Wallymart, $200 will get you Plywood and Depending on the type of real wood, pick your price for that little shelf! Still plugging away on my tool cabinet for the shop, got to find a better place for B.B. plywood or stop using it, which sounds way more appealing!


----------



## jmartel

Pez, it should have enough tension with the angled mortise pulling it in further along with driving the wedge in. And as it loosens up with drying, you drive the wedge in further. Could make it a through mortise as well. I think I have enough length in the 2×8's for that.

Red, like I said, hardware would probably be easier. I was originally looking at the sliding hardware rather than beefy bed bolts. Part of me wants no hardware in the build at all though, just traditional timber framing joints. Still working out how to attach the center rail. Again, easy solution is hardware.


----------



## bearkatwood

So I searched and searched and found a good tutorial on of all places *LumberJocks*
They had a link to this page that would give you the embed code to use and it was foolproof.
Code generator

So I can pimp my videos on you now, hurray!!





View on YouTube

Thanks for letting me hijack your thread again Red, you are so understanding… I hope.


----------



## DanKrager

Jlooserail, if you are still leaning toward hardware that is not a through bolt, this would be my third choice.
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Bearkat- I have hijacked threads with much worse. Let's face it, these are more like chat rooms anyway.

Cracks me up you had the tech savvy to make good videos and post them on youtube, but couldn't figure out how to post the here…..lawlz. Your vids are pretty good. I sorta wish I had the time/patience to make some videos, but nobody wants to see more of my ugly mug.


----------



## bearkatwood

It took me about two months to edit that sucker, so I wouldn't say I was tech savvy just yet 
And I am sure everyone here agrees that we would love to see a video of your work.. Tage Frid was not the best looking belle at the ball, but he did just fine. This is woodworking, who cares what you look like. If the hunchback of Notre Dame could make a dovetail, we'd all watch.


----------



## TheFridge

Any recommendations on a travisher? Not seeing much out there.


----------



## bearkatwood

I ordered mine thru Peter Galbert and it was made by Clair Minihan, it is amazing.
Clair Minihan Travisher

Some other links;
http://travisher.com/
http://handtoolwoodworking.com/travishers/
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/travisher.aspx
If you are handy you could make your own with a blade from E-bay

Hope that helped.


----------



## jmartel

Bearkat,

In your drawers in the tool cabinet, where did you get those pulls? The black ones with the rings that sit flush until you pull them out?


----------



## bearkatwood

Those are very cool, I thought for a while on what I would use.








They can be pretty expensive for some of them, but I found some reasonable ones on Amazon.
Order them here; Flush mount ring pull
I used those on my tool tote as well.


----------



## jmartel

Thanks. I really like those. I'm gonna have to use them on something.


----------



## bearkatwood

So there it is Red, I subscribed to you. I will be waiting for the show with a bag of popcorn!


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks BK, I ordered a blade. The one you have is too much at the moment but extremely purty.

Have some seats to scoop out


----------



## bearkatwood

I ordered one of those blades too, I have yet to make anything to put it in, but it looked like it would work well.


----------



## bobasaurus

Fridge, what type of wood is that in the last picture's foreground? It's got a nice pattern.

I made a simple curve drawing bow today to mark some very large radius curves:










And got to experience spokeshave joy after bandsawing:


----------



## TheFridge

Well you know how it is. When it comes in I'll stop all other work to make something that looks like crap but works and it'll stay that way for years until I feel like making it pretty. Usually in the middle of another project


----------



## bearkatwood

Is that the curved bottom or flat Boggs?


----------



## bobasaurus

That's the flat boggs, since I was making a convex curve. I find it easier to use than the curved bottom one.


----------



## TheFridge

Sorry bob, missed the question. All of it is white ash. Some normal, some spalted, and some olive.


----------



## bobasaurus

What is olive white ash? Does that just describe the color?


----------



## TheFridge

Excuse me bob, from what I gather, the species is actually European ash not white. Olive refers to the olivewood like coloring of the heart wood. Not its own species but only occurs in European ash trees.

My grandfather cut it down and milled it 30+ years ago. Think it was dying. A lot of the outer sapwood is chewed to hell and back by something.


----------



## CFrye

Brian, when are you going to post that tool tote as a project? I need pictures to copy from! LOL


----------



## widdle

Good video Bearkat….Well done…


----------



## CFrye

After I posted the above question, the fog cleared and I remembered your blog on it here.
Nevermind.


----------



## bearkatwood

Hey CFrye, how ya been? I haven't posted that as a project yet? Oops, I will have to get to that. Hope you found some good pics, I will try to take some fresh ones for the post.
My favorite on the Boggs has to be the curved sole, it seems more versatile for what I do. I use the flat for case work and the curved for about everything else except opening doors. I made walnut handles for the curved so I could tell them apart in the till.
That wood up there does have some interesting coloring.


----------



## TheFridge

Question:

When it comes to large radius curved work, do you use a Stanley 113 or 20? Preferences? All I know about them is what Patrick leach thinks about them. I've watched some vids but they're mostly geared towards showing it in action than the feel and positives and negatives.


----------



## bearkatwood

I have an older 113 with the screw lever cap. It has some issues so I have been watching ebay hoping for a nice one that I would like to pop up right when I have the cash. So far it's a no-go. I am not in a big hurry though, I have been getting by this long.


----------



## DanKrager

I've never used the 20, but I have a 113 and noticed that the common complaint about them seems accurate…they don't hold the adjustment well because you are pushing on the adjustment knob which acts like the front knob on a standard plane. The 20 doesn't have that issue. I'm guessing that they are about equivalent otherwise. Haven't used it enough to discover a work around.

DanK


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks

If it could hold its setting well (like a 20) it does its job well?


----------



## DanKrager

Yes, very well. As Brit might say, "Quite well indeed". Produces very smooth and accurate curves as long as you push it that way! You have to reverse directions midway, but that's just because of the nature of wood grain intersecting the curve.

DanK


----------



## jmartel

Did a big push on the nightstands today. Got the dividers finished up and glued in, and all the joinery for the doors cut. The panels for the doors are gluing up now. Doors will glue up tomorrow.


----------



## TheFridge

Well, go ahead and twist the arm with the credit card Dan 

Lookin good J


----------



## bobasaurus

I was just tuning my No. 20 today. I tried to use it for the first time yesterday when making my long curved rail, but it was chattering like crazy. I had to file down the lateral adjuster's rivet (was hitting the chip breaker, keeping the blade from laying flat), peen it's pivot to reduce slop, file the chip breaker's opening wider for the depth adjustment yoke, flatten the frog's bed and mating area, then reassemble and file down a protruding area by the mouth that was extending past the frog and flexing the blade (still needs a bit more removal, but it's close enough for now). Finally, it seems to be working on some scrap:










I'll do some more tuning on it another day, but I think I'll give it a fresh sharpening and try smoothing the bottom edge of my maple rail with it. Here is the rail and supports on the shelf (upside down for layout):










For the shelf, I went with a slight curve on the long sides, and roundy corners.


----------



## bearkatwood

I look forward to a picture of the shelf in place, I think it is going to turn out nicely. 
One of my favorite woodworkers Victor Di Novi made a set of shelves with some curves, but id doesn't have the contrasting woods like the one you are making. I am fond of that mix.








Check out his work on his site
Victor Di Novi
I have the complete set of woodworking in action videos and the interview with him shows a set of what look like shelf supports behind him. Cool guy.


----------



## Pezking7p

^^^ That shelf is amazing.

JMart, I thought that was supposed to be a quick/easy build for wifey. Seems like it's got a lot of details. Looks great, mate.

Done with this. Time to move on to more furniture! Huzzah!


----------



## fatandy2003

That trunk is really well done Pez!


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, originally it started out as a quick and easy build. Then it turned into a "hey, lets cut all joinery by hand for practice, oh and throw in some sliding dovetails, fitted drawers, and inset doors to the mix while we're at it". Doors are glued up now. Fitting and hanging tomorrow. Need to pick up a bit more poplar for drawer bottoms.


----------



## bearkatwood

I completely understand what you are saying. Draw it on paper, it looks easy enough, shouldn't be too much problem to add this little thing… Hah! three months later it looks great and you have a few gray hairs to show for it. Nice work, that is a very elegant and classy looking trunk. Diggin' that tray handle.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Question - what's a rule of thumb for tongue & groove thickness for edge-joining like for a table top? Is 1/4" too wide for, say, 3/4" boards?


----------



## johnstoneb

1/4" is what I would use.


----------



## bearkatwood

Thirds is a good rule of thumb for T&G or breadboard ends for me.
I have to tell you all about the newest safety stop for the table saw. It beats the saw stop hands down (pun intended) it even comes with and audible alarm that makes a horrible screeching noise. 









Izzy was jealous that gray was getting all the attention.









She got very fussy when I had to move her so I could make some cuts, what a brat!
I have decided that the Saw Stop is a hardware solution for a software problem. Silly to me, but justified for some.


----------



## theoldfart

Cat-o-nine, oops eight tales!


----------



## bearkatwood

As you can see in the pictures I still haven't sold my jointer. So if you are a LJ in the area and want a 6" ridgid that works great with extra knives and safety gear, it is $350. I have it listed on CL at $400 expecting whoever bought it to negotiate like they always do, but I thought $350 was a good deal. So let me know!


----------



## Hammerthumb

I love shop animals.










How much is a new cartridge for that safety device, Brian?


----------



## bearkatwood

That is the great thing, every spring you can find a box full of them in the parking lot of your local grocery store. Right next to the girl with the thin mints. Most of the time they are free.


----------



## Smurfymike

I have a question: I am attempting to design a simple Chabudai(low Japanese style table) as a first larger project. I am very new to woodworking in general, however, I have assisted and watched friends and family create things, and would like to make some furniture as a gift to my girlfriend for a new apartment.










This is what I have so far. The table would be 15'' in height and 4' square. I have a general idea, and would like to keep it as simple as possible, however, I have no clue about any supports that should be underneath the surface.










The largest piece would be 3'9'' L x 3'9'' W x 1'' H, with smaller pieces running along the side to preserve the aesthetic. I am at a loss as to how, or if I should put any supports under the table in order to strengthen it.

I also am not sure what type of wood I will be using, still haven't done any research regarding that.

Any ideas? Thank you in advance, and if this is the wrong place to post this, please let me know.


----------



## jmartel

If it's just a normal table, you shouldn't really need any bracing. The sides on that will stiffen it enough. If you wanted to, you could put a center brace to make sure though.


----------



## Smurfymike

Oh okay, like I said, I have no idea. Without the materials, its difficult to visualize whether or not the 3.9' x 3.9' piece of wood would be sturdy or not. Thanks a lot. Now to think about the joinery and wood type.


----------



## DanKrager

Welcome Smurfy.

I tend to over build things and building a low table for a client is like building a chair…there are liability concerns for me. It's almost a certainty that some 400 lb gorilla is going to dance on that thing and when it breaks it will be your fault! Having said that, I know it's for your home and liability may not be an issue for you to consider. More than likely it will be a relative that tries that stunt, so unless it's an in-law …. 

At a minimum, I would consider a "stringer" every 16" or so, not unlike a floor. I'd even go so far as to build an egg crate with 1" hardwood as a support for a 3/4" top. A thicker top will not gain the strength where it is needed because the grain will collapse instead of transferring weight to the legs. I'd make the aprons appropriately thick. This will make the table very heavy, too, so it won't skitter easily.

Like I said, this is probably overkill, but I build heirlooms.

Corners are easy in Sketch up, but not so much in the shop for a first effort. What do you plan for the corners?

DanK


----------



## Pezking7p

Mike, using plywood for the larger table top piece would be easiest for a first effort. Not sure what your tools and abilities are, but plywood makes it pretty easy. Elminates wood movement issues and the need to joint and laminate a large number of boards.


----------



## Smurfymike

Howdy! Yeah that makes sense about liabilities, I am 22 with no interest of kids, however I do have a bunch of younger friends I guess there is always the chance things could get boisterous.

As for my design, I had intended on keeping it as light as I could without sacrificing structural stability or aesthetic. I was a mover, so I am very hesitant when purchasing furniture as I know the perils of moving beautiful, heavy pieces. I had originally tried to make a design with removable legs so that I could potentially store it inside of a closet or behind another piece of furniture. Even designing it proved too difficult with my limited knowledge, so I decided to completely strip it down as simple as possible. (The whole piece only having a total of ~9 parts.)

My corners as of now consist of a smaller apron nestled between two larger sidings.










This was the simplest to me, as I am just trying to design things that I will be able to do (Anything I may need help with my buddy's dad would probably be able to help) My friend's father has allowed me to use his tools as well (of which he owns quite a few) so I would be able to do something like a miter, however, I have no experience with those.

Your comments are definitely making me re-think, as although I want this to be simple, I want to make sure it lasts longer than a few weeks, as I wish for this piece to accompany my girlfriend and I for our early housing needs. I don't need any heirloom quality pieces (we will save that for later after some experience) but I would like something that lasts 1-3 years.


----------



## Smurfymike

> Mike, using plywood for the larger table top piece would be easiest for a first effort. Not sure what your tools and abilities are, but plywood makes it pretty easy. Elminates wood movement issues and the need to joint and laminate a large number of boards.
> 
> - Pezking7p


That's true. Do you think that would look fairly decent? If it were just a table for me I wouldn't care about super pretty tabletop, however, this is a gift, so I want it to look presentable. If not, what are some ways that I could improve that? After searching for examples, I am not opposed to Plywood with something like Tung oil.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Michael- a nice plywood top would look fine. Makes a big difference on the quality of the ply though. Might not be cost efficient to buy a whole sheet of cabinet grade ply for one table.

For strength, you're really gonna want some kind of apron or stretcher.

Keep in mind that you cannot do an edging like your picture on a solid table top, the seasonal expansion of the wood will blow out the edging.

Example of ply table with solid edging.


----------



## Pezking7p

You can buy some really beautiful plywood if you have a dealer near you, but it's going to cost $80-$130 per sheet unless you buy maple, which will still be $60.

Alternatively, you can laminate boards to make the large piece, but you now need a way to joint the edges and glue up (at least 4 clamps that are 4' long as well as a jointer - hand plane jointer or an electric jointer). If you do this, you will need to move your aprons to be underneath the table because as the top expands and shrinks with the seasons the joints will open/close. You also will have to account for this expansion when you screw the aprons to the table top, which pretty much involves making slots for the screws to go in.

Either way is fine. I personally think the second method using hardwood is nicer, but it probably requires $200-$400 worth of tools and a bit more know how. Not everyone wants to jump in with that many feet. I almost quit woodworking the first time I set up a jointer.

These things are concerns but whatever you choose, I hope you'll stick around here and I hope you enjoy the process!!


----------



## Smurfymike

Thanks a lot Pez, I will keep that in mind. Thanks for the warm welcome.

And yeah expansion didn't even cross my mind. I will take a look at your project, KnotHead, and try to come up with something that will still work with the low style of table.


----------



## TheFridge

Have chairs. Need travisher. Happy so far.


----------



## jmartel

Rounding third base, on my way in to home plate…










Doors are hung. Drawer fronts fit. I'll make the rest of the drawers and the corbels Thurs/Fri. Then sanding and finishing this weekend.


----------



## bearkatwood

Home run! you nailed it, looks great. I like how the doors mirror each other.


----------



## DanKrager

Michael, don't shortcut this because it is your first piece and because it is "not heirloom". Things have a way of becoming sentimental (i.e. "this was my first piece!" or "he made this special for me".) There are poorly made widgets I did in high school that are hard to throw away. I made two tool chests maybe 40 years ago that were to be temporary until I could rebuild them with a better material than 1/2" plywood. Round tuits accumulate and when combined with the 90% stuff, it gets crowded, not just in the shop but in your head. Do it to the best of your current ability and means and you'll always be pleased with it, as much as any craftsman can be knowing where are all the defects are! It keeps your head clear and the work fun.  And as you build it, know that there is an old saw "The difference between an amateur and a professional is how they fix their mistakes". How to fix a mistake is as important as how you design and build it. We've all BTDT with some really bone-headed stuff, so don't be afraid to ask. OK. It's just me that makes bone headed mistakes! 
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Michael, Dan's correct, only he has made boneheaded errors, the rest of us are fortunately perfect! Yea sure.

I would also spend some time and effort and make this the best you can do. Rebuilding/retrofitting is not fun and for the most part does not end well. Keep at it, this stuff is fun!


----------



## DanKrager

LAWL, you boneheaded old Fart! 

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

;-), you know I just had to do it!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Jmart - what kind of edge detail are you going to have on the top?


----------



## jmartel

None, or a small underbevel. Haven't decided yet. There's going to be some corbels on the sides.


----------



## Smurfymike

Yeah I do want to make sure she will like it aesthetically, I'm not consulting her or anything as too not room the surprise, but I have attempted to squeeze out some likes and dislikes haha.

Otherwise I am quite the hobbyist, so I know that sometimes I will jump from task to task and easily forget something, therefore, I would like to get the design process and building underway to make sure it is completed.

Thanks for the tips!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> This was the simplest to me, as I am just trying to design things that I will be able to do (Anything I may need help with my buddy s dad would probably be able to help) My friend s father has allowed me to use his tools as well (of which he owns quite a few) so I would be able to do something like a miter, however, I have no experience with those.
> 
> - Michael Rodriguez


Another thing, personally I think miter joints are overrated. I rarely use them even for interior trim work. You can orient butt joints to be appealing to the eye too. Like this:


----------



## bearkatwood

I seen London, I seen France, I seen Reds butt joints 
How are you planning to put the corbels in and what look are you going for with them? That could help with the design as a lap joint would get everything locked together and then the ends could be the corbels.









Sorry Red, it was there, I saw it! You made us look at your butt.. joints.


----------



## ToddJB

Careful Brian, Red has been know to show people where the red fern grows - don't want to get him kicked off the site.


----------



## bearkatwood

That sounds scary, you know what happened to Rubin Pritchard in that book. Ouch!
Hey this just in form the folks that brought you the anarchist tool chest.








Lost Art Press Etudes
Another way you could make that frame.


----------



## DanKrager

A dowel instead of a square peg would be "simpler", maybe. A square drill is an advanced, expensive tool! But perhaps round isn't in the aesthetic. That's a pretty good idea, Brian.
DanK


----------



## bearkatwood

You could just drill the hole and use a chisel to square it up. Not too difficult, just tedious.


----------



## Pezking7p

Not all that tedious for eight holes. We are behind you, Michael! Let's do this thing.


----------



## vikingcape

Hey thats a cool joint brian. Thanks for that.

Fridge im liking those chairs.

Jmartel, what are you using for finish?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Glad I could be the BUTT of your jokes guys!!! lawlz.

So….neither my uncle nor I can remember how much he gave me as a deposit(cash) for the dining set. It was a year and a half ago. I should prolly keep better records….. even though I just do this for funs.


----------



## bearkatwood

Oops!  That is why I don't work for family, I like to eat too much.


----------



## Smurfymike

knothead- I think that looks really cool. I am assuming some sort of M&T to fasten together? would you recommend putting any screws somehow since its a larger piece?

bearkat - that is a really cool joint. I would just use glue between that correct? any screws at all? That guy seems to go with something different, so not sure if there any additional steps. That definitely seems plausible and simple.

Sorry if these things are obvious. super beginner and want to make sure i don't screw it up first try.


----------



## jmartel

Corbels will be stopped shallow dadoes. Finish I don't know yet. Dye followed by something with a matte sheen.


----------



## Smurfymike

After some deliberation on the FCUP, I have sketched it up. Each protruding peg would be 1.5'' x 1.5'' across on each leg. I am assuming there is nothing else to this design.










My only question now is in order to insert the tabletop, wouldn't this still be prone to expansion since its nestled in the middle of these 4 joints? Or was my first design just that weak? v.v lol

This would give me a lot of room to work with underneath in order to attach the tabletop…

I would think these supports would suffice?










or is there a less barbaric way of doing this? I have only created dumb little throwaway frames or stands for props, nothing meant to last or be pretty.


----------



## vikingcape

Hey Mike if it is a nice plywood you don't need to worry about expansion.

If it is solid wood, then I would put the top overtop of the frame and screw in from the bottom with holes that have been elongated to allow for expansion.

Or 
http://www.rockler.com/desk-top-fasteners

Or even better with many options
http://www.craftsmanspace.com/knowledge/17-ways-to-fasten-a-tabletop.html


----------



## DanKrager

Michael, it looks like you're getting close to something doable! +1^ Kaleb.

DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> knothead- I think that looks really cool. I am assuming some sort of M&T to fasten together? would you recommend putting any screws somehow since its a larger piece?
> 
> - Michael Rodriguez


No M&T need to added edging to ply. You could just glue it, pocket hole, biscuits….whatever.


----------



## bearkatwood

Sorry if these things are obvious. super beginner and want to make sure i don t screw it up first try.

- Michael Rodriguez
[/QUOTE]

Michael,
Don't worry about messing a piece up. You Will, I guarantee it, we all do. Even seasoned pros mess pieces up. Just have fun building it and do the best you can and the skills will come. I think you are on to something so far. I like the figure 8 fasteners, they work well, allow for expansion(which you won't need to worry about on this) and are easy to install.
There is a short article I like to refer to about your anxiety. I completely understand how you feel. When I first started out, I would lay awake at night building the piece I was to make the next day in my head over and over and sure enough, the next day I would make a mistake. After some years I was able to plan for some of the mistakes and teach myself how to avoid some, but you will always make mistakes, it's just part of being a maker. I had to read the article again because you made me remember it and it's funny now realizing why I hate a silent shop, I always have some music going for the same reason as Mark. His article is titled Risk. Take a look, it's worth the read. I know you are going to do fine, because you have already demonstrated that you care about what you are making, so have fun and enjoy the ride.
All the best.


----------



## JayT

^ That article was a great read, Brian. Thanks for sharing it.


----------



## duckmilk

Michael, you said you had a friend's dad that could help you out. Perhaps you should show him your design and see what he says.


----------



## CL810

Brian, thanks for posting the link to Mark Love's website. Well worth the time.


----------



## bearkatwood

Cool stuff huh? My wife has talked about getting me the Charles Hayward set of books from LAP and I think that would make my year. I asked if they would sign the copies for me, so far it is a no-go, but I will keep asking like a persistent annoyance and they will either bar me from ever coming to their place or hook me up 
I like that kind of introspective look at woodworking, there is so much more that goes on beyond just making a dovetail or tenon. There is a mindset of a true maker that pulls him/her onward in search of perfection and beauty. It is intriguing to learn how the masters thought and worked and it is important for us to learn from them and to carry on that knowledge. I will let you know what I think when I get the books. 
Glad you liked the link.


----------



## bearkatwood

Hope to be buying books from some of you guys some day, you have all been very helpful and knowledgable about this woodworking thingy! Have a great day.


----------



## Smurfymike

> Hey Mike if it is a nice plywood you don t need to worry about expansion.
> 
> If it is solid wood, then I would put the top overtop of the frame and screw in from the bottom with holes that have been elongated to allow for expansion.
> 
> Or
> http://www.rockler.com/desk-top-fasteners
> 
> Or even better with many options
> http://www.craftsmanspace.com/knowledge/17-ways-to-fasten-a-tabletop.html
> 
> - Kaleb the Swede


hrmm With those figure eight fasteners in mind, I am starting to think a normal tabletop sitting on top of the aprons would be better. I guess I wouldn't have to change the frame's design. I would only have to set the tabletop on…well… top of it. I like those a lot. EDIT: not to mention it will allow for some mistakes with the square peg on each leg if it doesn't look too pretty lol

Bearkat - That was a very good read. Especially his reference to his hands as his most loyal employees, making it easier to forgive physical mistakes. I can definitely link this back to sports, videogames, and almost everything I have done in the past, easily overlooking those mistakes while putting more pressure on the mental process. Hopefully you are right and my passion can transfer to skill 



> Michael, you said you had a friend s dad that could help you out. Perhaps you should show him your design and see what he says.
> 
> - duckmilk


Yeah I have tried this, and he agreed to get extra help, since he has only created behind the scenes work such as a laundry chute running from his second floor down to a room close by the washing machine/dryer. He mostly allowed me to use his tools and store it temporarily in his garage, which is another reason that I want to ensure the planning process is thorough, as I don't want to keep his space cluttered for too long with my wood.


----------



## Pezking7p

"all the beautiful furniture that i've made only testifies to how good i was, not how good i am."

Wow. I rarely read/hear things that I consider profound, but this qualifies.


----------



## Pezking7p

Michael, enough planning already. What wood are you using and when will you be starting?


----------



## ToddJB

> "all the beautiful furniture that i've made only testifies to how good i was, not how good i am."
> 
> Wow. I rarely read/hear things that I consider profound, but this qualifies.
> 
> - Pezking7p


I agree, Pez, that hit me hard too. Applicable in all facets of life really. The anti-uncle Rico


----------



## bearkatwood

I knew you guys would appreciate that!, I think I might start a new forum or we could just do it here if you like.
Question; What is your biggest project planned for this year, do you have a project n mind you would like to tackle this year? Let me know if you think I should start a new forum or not. Thanks, have a great night.


----------



## Pezking7p

I plan to make two chairs that copy thos moser's lolling chair. This is so daunting that I'm actually a little scared just thinking about it. I think it's probably way out of my league. But then again, whats life without some fear?


----------



## bearkatwood

Cool!








That sounds like a fun one. Here is a sketchup of the chair, might make it a bit easier. It is a pretty straight forward design. I have a pic of Maloof in one of his last chairs with a similar sweep back leg that I would like to tackle, maybe not this year, but it has some of the same lines. http://lumberjocks.com/topics/53946#








It has echoes of a William Morris "chester" chair.








I tried to copy that one in my first chair.








I hope to see pictures of your chair when you build it.


----------



## bearkatwood

You had me at "chair"


----------



## Smurfymike

> Michael, enough planning already. What wood are you using and when will you be starting?
> 
> - Pezking7p


2 days since account creation and I feel like you already know me and that I love to stay in the planning stage of any project. Perhaps a bit too much.

This is all relative to whether or not I can obtain it, but I would like something lighter for the tabletop, and darker for the base. I know Pine is a bit softer, however, I think I would like something almost white for the tabletop and maybe something with a dark finish for the frame. I do not intend on painting the piece, but at the same time finishes, stains, sealers, clear coats are all over my head and I will need to do a bit of research before I have a say in the matter. (or else I would just be naming random things "Tung Oil!")


----------



## jmartel

> I knew you guys would appreciate that!, I think I might start a new forum or we could just do it here if you like.
> Question; What is your biggest project planned for this year, do you have a project n mind you would like to tackle this year? Let me know if you think I should start a new forum or not. Thanks, have a great night.
> 
> - bearkatwood


Physically largest? Probably my bed that I'm about to start.


----------



## vikingcape

The project I will tackle soon is a dresser and makeup table for the wife. Cherry and ambrosia maple for both.


----------



## TraylorPark

It's been a while since I posted any updates here, but I'm still plugging along with the desk build. I have all the pedestal boxes made with feet and the tops roughed up. Next steps are backs for the boxes, drawers and doors then sanding and finish. 









The feet blanks and then a couple shaped and tenoned. 









The tops









And the latest mock fit.

To Brian's question on the big project for the year, I have two if time permits. I've been hoarding some tiger maple to build a mixed media hall table. I'm thinking some swooping curves with bridle joints for legs and a center stretcher (that should be a good test for me). As for the mixed media I have some cool marble tile I would frame and inset for the top. And I scored some walnut cheap from a guy selling his recently deceased father's hoarded stash that I want to make a buffet and stemware wall cabinet for the dinning room.


----------



## bearkatwood

Alright, so I want to know more about the bed and the dresser with make-up table. What style, do you have plans drawn up yet.
I like the .50 cent legs on that desk, mixed media table and buffet with stemware…Ambitious. Can't wait to see them all.
Oh, and the .50 cent comment didn't meant he legs looked cheep, that is my slang for mid century modern


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## vikingcape

I meant chest of drawers (not dresser, I'm an idiot) will be like the one I did previously, so Shaker (?) style. But maybe one bay of drawers higher. Lots of dovetails, I have a thing for them.



The makeup table will be a live edge ambrosia maple slab and the base will have some configuration of three drawers with a mirror. Still working on the details with my wife.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Michael, you could use hard maple for the top of the table, and walnut for the legs, aprons, and stretchers. Neither are super expensive, and that color combination always looks good.

Then with your figure-8 fasteners, you've got the expansion/contraction issue handled.

Since it's a coffee table, I'd recommend wiping varnish for the top. It's just regular oil-based varnish, thinned with mineral spirits. Just brush it on with a foam brush, let it sit for 2-3 minutes, then wipe off with a clean rag. You should be able to get two coats on per day. The advantage to wiping varnish is that it doesn't run on vertical surfaces (because you wipe off the excess), and you also wipe off any dust nibs when you wipe off the excess.

You still need to sand with 320 between coats, to get a smooth surface, though.

Varnish is very durable, which is what you want on a coffee table that's going to get hot cups on it, or spills (or kids drawing with crayons!)


----------



## bearkatwood

Michael, don't you have that thing built yet? You got to "relocate your donkey!" I will have stickers for that one coming to my site soon. It means you got to move your A$$  my theory go like this; you have your plan, you have the tools and lumber, now "Relocate Your Donkey!" TM. ha
I am sure you will do a good job, I am not trying to rush you, just light a fire. Like the man says "Get-R-Done" 
Hey Kaleb, I really like those square pulls and that ambrosia is beautiful. Nice dovetail work too. Great build, now on to what?


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## vikingcape

Thanks for the comments Brian. I meant I have to build a second one for me in our bedroom to match (although one bank higher), and then I have to build the makeup table for my wife. But that is in the design stages as of now


----------



## TraylorPark

I'm glad you said mid century modern, cause that's the vibe I was going for.


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## JoeRPhilly

speaking of mid century modern, that the look I was going for on some end tables I made last year, just getting ready to post the project now. What do ya'll think?




























I borrowed the design from a pic I found on the web - looks like the page is no longer active but credit for the design goes to the person here: http://yooying.com/candice_builds


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## jmartel

> I plan to make two chairs that copy thos moser s lolling chair. This is so daunting that I m actually a little scared just thinking about it. I think it s probably way out of my league. But then again, whats life without some fear?
> 
> - Pezking7p


Just saw this. I also really like that chair, Pez. Looks like a lot of bent laminations though. Good thing you got a nice bandsaw now.


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## jmartel

Bearkat, the bed is going to be Timber framed douglas fir, essentially. I'm going to do my best to do it just how a house would be framed. Right down to using oak pegs on every M&T joint to drawbore the whole thing together. Posts are 6×6, cross rails are 4×6, and slats will be 2×4. So, rather large.

I've got the wood now, just need to finish up my night stands and get them upstairs.


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## bearkatwood

JoeRPhilly, very nice. I like the clean lines and very nice display of the beautiful wood grain, great job!

That bed sounds like a beast! Going to be heavy.


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## JoeRPhilly

Thanks Brian! Here is the website from where I borrowed the design: http://www.shopbearandtiger.com/tables/cherry-wood-end-table/
She has some really cool stuff - check it out


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## bearkatwood

Your table is better looking I think.


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## Pezking7p

Holy crap BK! I thought I was going to have to draw it from pictures I took at the store!!!! The only thing I'm really stuck on is the back. Think you can help me with that when the time comes? I have no idea how to do the back panel. Oh I just had an idea. Make a frame and put webbing in it? I need to find a very, very good upholsterer.

Trailer I love those legs. Very neat.


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## bobasaurus

Planing the table shelf today:










Love the LN No. 4 when freshly sharpened:










It does tend to clog a bit though. Might open the mouth and just rely on the chipbreaker and 50 deg frog for tear-out control.


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## Pezking7p

I think the mouth helps tearout as much as a sharp blade, but it's all for nought if the mouth clogs I guess. Beautiful plane.


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## jmartel

In order of importance, it generally goes Chipbreaker/Sharpness are at the top, then depth of cut, and then mouth size.

Open the mouth a bit, and get the chipbreaker as close as you possibly can. Shouldn't have much or any tearout.


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## bearkatwood

Pezking7p, here is a pic of the back. It has a head cushion that is snapped on and the fabric in the frame is easy enough to do. I believe it is made of a panel that is slid in. The Taunton presss Maloof video shows a scene where he is working on his office chair and it has a similar inset panel that gets upholstered.


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## Pezking7p

Brian, do you have a link to that video? My search foo only came up with a Taunton press dvd. Here's a pic that really shows where I get confused. The back is curved in two dimensions. So I was thinking about making a single form for back slats, and then routing a groove along the top and bottom rails of the frame for the slats to fit in. Then Relying on the flexibility of the slats to adjust to the subtle curve of the rails. Maybe I could router the slats out using a pattern.

Does any of this make sense? I'm so clueless. At least I have plenty of time to figure it out.


----------



## bearkatwood

I used to have the video, I am going to search my house and see if I can find it today. Here is a link to the video, if you don't have it, it is a worthwhile addition to your library.
Sam Maloof; Woodworking Profile
I don't see it online anywhere in video. It isn't too big a puzzle. You build a frame for the back and rout a rabbet around the inside and then build a frame to fit into that opening and stretch your fabric around it with webbing and padding inside. If you haven't done much upholstery, it is a good thing to learn for a woodworker. Just like knowing a little metal working, it can add a lot to your work. Here is a crash course in upholstery that makes it look very easy.
Upholster a dining chair.
Hope that helps. You can see the screws in the back of the frame that hold in the upholstered frame, it could be something as simple as a piece of plywood, but I am guessing it has a framework that matches the chair.


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## Pezking7p

Yah it looks like there is a whole frame in the lolling chair back. I watched a few upholstery videos. That's a rabbit hole I could go down!

For those of you who may be thinking "it's just a small piece, I can paint it in the same amount of time it would take me to clean up the spray gun." Wrong. Get some lacquer and spray it. I wasted almost 4 hours today putting two coats of paint on these two little benches. I should have bought the lacquer and sprayed. Would have been done in two hours tops, with a much nicer final product. Lesson learned.


----------



## bearkatwood

Sounds like a Monday, darn daylight savings thingy! I blame it on Daylight savings time!


----------



## Pezking7p

Bearkat, are you a full time chair maker, or do you have a day job?


----------



## bearkatwood

My day job fortunately is woodworking. I love making chairs, but I take on all kinds of jobs.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

JoeRPhilly- those tables are excellente. Thanks for posting them.

Pez- I too am a little stumped as to the upholstery backing for that chair. The rest doesn't look undoable though. Not for a pimp like you. I'd be tempted to make a pair if I was going to the trouble…perhaps sell the other.

Allen- I just try to find the balance with the mouth opening on a smoother. As in, I keep opening it til it doesn't clog and call it good. Sharp is king.


----------



## bearkatwood

On the subject of smoothers, here is a great little video by Richard Maguire (the English woodworker)
Tear out and Cap irons
Have a great night!


----------



## derekcohen

All the drawers are finally done …

Well, almost …

The drawer bottoms have still to be made for 4 of the drawers. After making each one separately, it occurred to me that this was the one item that I could build en masse.



















After the drawer bottoms are in, the task will be to make the drawer fronts coplanar. They are close to one another in curve, but there are a few variations here-and-there. What I plan to do is shim the drawers by about 1/2" to raise them out an equal amount so that they all lie proud of the carcase, place the chest on its back so that the drawers face upward, and then sand the faces with a long sander made out of a 2×4.

What do you think of this method? Any other ideas?

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## bearkatwood

like the dovetails. nice work.


----------



## DanKrager

Re: mystery upholstery on chair back. 
If you look closely at the backs of these chairs, I think you will find the answer. There is a shallow rabbet front and back of the chair parts surrounding the opening. On these chairs, it is also around the seat on the outside. That "tongue" is what the upholsterer uses to secure the webbing, the padding, the underlayers, and the final fabric. Sometimes it is trimmed with a bead to conceal the thin wire staples and sometimes they use a completely concealed technique that I don't understand.










DanK


----------



## Pezking7p

DanK, Thanks for the pic. Do they put a hard back in of some kind?

Maybe I need to get a tour of their production facility.


----------



## bearkatwood

Spam!


----------



## DanKrager

Pez, these chairs were made by me and an "apprentice" who wanted to learn the process. The customer brought us an Italian made sample chair that was remarkably fragile. We scaled up the design and the resulting chairs still look elegant, but they are exceptionally strong. A total of 12 chairs were eventually made all from old growth timber salvaged from a disassembled corn crib. There's long story about them in the blog archives of my web site.

There was no solid back installed. The upholsterer wove webbing to support the cushioning he put in and then a single layer on the back, leaving a space between. Somewhere on celluloid I have a picture of the finished product, but don't hold your breath.

You'd be welcome any time!

DanK


----------



## putty

Trestle table is almost done!!!! 3rd coat of poly just put on, when dry some paste wax and its done!!!


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## jmartel

Looks great, Putty. I like the painted base.


----------



## summerfi

That looks sharp putty. Great job!


----------



## Mean_Dean

Nice work, Putty! I hope you're planning to post this as a project!


----------



## bobasaurus

Looks real nice putty. I need to get on finishing mine. I'll work some on it tonight.


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## bearkatwood

Putty, Wow!!! very elegant looking. Nicely done!


----------



## Pezking7p

Putty, I love it.

Dan, interesting about the false back. Opens up a possible option.


----------



## putty

Thanks guys, yes, I will post it as a project


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## CL810

Putty, that's some fine craftsmanship on display there.


----------



## CB_Cohick

> After the drawer bottoms are in, the task will be to make the drawer fronts coplanar. They are close to one another in curve, but there are a few variations here-and-there. What I plan to do is shim the drawers by about 1/2" to raise them out an equal amount so that they all lie proud of the carcase, place the chest on its back so that the drawers face upward, and then sand the faces with a long sander made out of a 2×4.
> 
> What do you think of this method? Any other ideas?
> 
> Regards from Perth
> 
> Derek
> 
> - Derek Cohen


Derek, that is some stunning work as always! I am concerned about your sanding plan. I am doubtful you can find a 2×4 that is straight, lol. Do you have a jointer to which you could attach sandpaper?


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## bearkatwood

A sure form would get you close and then use the jointer with sandpaper idea, sounds like a good one. Me, I would use a grinder, but I have used them for so many years, that's what I use to sign my checks


----------



## JoeRPhilly

Nice putty. I'm also just finishing up a trestle dining table - similar tusked tenons


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## putty

That is beautiful Joe, what kind of wood is that top?


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## bearkatwood

my computer is freaking out!! I write something and it doesn't show up, so I write it again and then both show up. Stupid thing. I am trying to process the bench video so I can upload it today and the stupid computer is going berserk. Sorry


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## bearkatwood

I like that term "tusked tenons" sounds like something Dr. Seuss would write about. That slab table turned out nice, I like the use of contrast. I second the request for wood info. Your shop floor looks clean enough to eat off of. My shop floor looks like a kennel floor, yuck. I guess I should try that "cleaning" thing I keep hearing about.
Nice table JoeRPhilly, thanks for the pic.


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## JoeRPhilly

Thanks guys, haha I like that term too  The slab is maple - curly, burly, and spalted - oh my! I wanted a dark base and used red oak since I had it on hand, stained with zar moorish teak. I'll add some better pics of the top or post the project soon - it's a quite interesting piece


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## BigRedKnothead

+1 to the kudos JoeRPhilly and Derek Cohen. Beautiful work indeed. I'm itching to make sumpin with a slab.

bearkat, my new books making ya green with envy?


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## CL810

Red, stay off the computer, ignore the family, read those books and post a review!! ;-)


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## BigRedKnothead

^hehe. I'm on stay-cation, so I'm sure I'll get some reading done. I pretty much purchase anything Lost Art Press puts out. I haven't been disappointed yet.

For those we've lost: http://blog.lostartpress.com/2016/01/20/the-woodworker-the-charles-h-hayward-years-2/

I've said that the folks at Lost Art Press are doing a service to our craft, and this is the sort of project I'm referring to. Eight years in the making. Woodworking books don't sell near enough copies to get rich.

As for me, I learned something on the first page. Never knew you could knock of a burr like this and go back to your fine stone:


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## bearkatwood

I hate you more than you will ever know Red. You are dead to me!!


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## BigRedKnothead

^lol. Brotherly love is tough love.

btw, I had them pre-ordered long before you mentioned your wife might them. No one-upping here


----------



## bearkatwood

Brotherly love? No man, I really hate you!! I mean it. I don't know anybody named Red anymore.
If you don't mind now I am going to go cry myself to sleep. 
Don't be as bad as Chris and give out any more spoilers!!! My screen can't take any more drool.
Brat!


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## jmartel

Started working on my drawers tonight. Got 2 corners of one drawer done. Not perfect. But acceptable I think.


----------



## bearkatwood

Looks great. Is the drawer front poplar as well?


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## jmartel

No, drawer fronts are beech


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## bearkatwood

Nice, I like the look of beech.


----------



## TheFridge

Almost time for finish. Need some figure eight or such to secure after finishing. Im trying to do this project without using sandpaper. Can't really see the booty scoop in the chairs because they're no more than an 1/8". I need a Scorp. And the job of rounding the edges over with rasps and floats might have to be turned over to the router.


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## bearkatwood

Looks like they turned out very nicely. I can see the scooping. Very colorful grain.


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## BigRedKnothead

Nice job Fridge. I dig em.

Another delivery from a small publisher, the new Mortise and Tenon Magazine. I rather enjoyed that it was packed with plane shavings. 









This is more journal or volume to my mind, but nobody's splittin' hairs. There's no advertising or how-to's. It mostly about the study of pre-industrialized furniture and the lost knowledge of handwork. If you're into that sort of thing, you'll love this. The quality is a good as any other woodworking publication out there.


----------



## TraylorPark

Is that blood splatter on the cover of that magazine, Red?


----------



## Waldo88

Finally have all the pieces fabricated for the loveseat I'm working on, did the first full dry fit the other night of the finished form.










One of those things I didn't realize until I was building it and had to figure out how to do it, but shows how well I did reverse engineering:

When working out the angle between the seat support and the back (and also the front stretcher and the seat) I came to realize that they are 105 degrees on the dot, incidentally 15 degrees (90+15) is a standard size for router bits.

All that is left to do is to shape the top of the back and the seat support, cut the holes for the straps, glue it all together and sand, sand, sand. The end is near.

As far as one of the questions I had earlier - I opted to use dowels (2×1/2" ea) to connect the lower back member to the side frames. All of the other main structural joints are M&T, but because there is already a M&T joint there that I didn't want to compromise, I figured big dowels would make for a better joint.


----------



## Pezking7p

It looks great. It also looks small next to your benches, lol. How did you do the carving/shaping of the legs? Are there a few videos you referenced or can recommend for people looking to shape MCM furniture?


----------



## Waldo88

> It looks great. It also looks small next to your benches, lol. How did you do the carving/shaping of the legs? Are there a few videos you referenced or can recommend for people looking to shape MCM furniture?
> 
> - Pezking7p


I do have very tall benches. But Danish Modern style furniture tends toward petite (contemporary commercial copies of the chair version of this usually add a couple inches of height, width, and depth).

For shaping:

Start with the form cut out on a bandsaw. On this piece virtually every member started as a 2.5" board (6/4, 5/4, and 4/4 was used), main M&T joints were made prior to cutting. Depending on location shaping is done either after or before gluing (or both).

I start with my angle grinder with a flap disc to get it to the rough shape. Awesome tool for hogging off material.

Next I go through with my spokeshave. That makes it relatively smooth/straight linearly.

Next I go though with my rasp. That takes out all of the ridges left behind by the spokeshave (and hits the spots it can't go). The rasp creates the final shape.

Next I use my file to take out the rasp marks.

After that I use my ROS with aggressive paper to take out the file marks

Finally I hand sand up through the grits to take out the ROS swirlies and give a smooth surface.

For the slats in the back (which are thinner/smaller), I took out a bunch of steps, they were too slender for power tools and needed less hogging, so I went spokeshave->file->hand sanding.

I figured out this workflow on my own through trial and error; making curvy stuff.


----------



## Pezking7p

Wow, Thanks for sharing your process. I always wonder if you had a soft pad for an ROS could you eliminate a lot of the hand stuff or the in betweens like filing and rasping. I know the Canadian Woodoworks guy uses his ROS to death when making Maloof Chairs.


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen

Looking great, Waldo!
Cant wait to see it finished. What kind of cushions are you going to make/use?


----------



## Waldo88

> Wow, Thanks for sharing your process. I always wonder if you had a soft pad for an ROS could you eliminate a lot of the hand stuff or the in betweens like filing and rasping. I know the Canadian Woodoworks guy uses his ROS to death when making Maloof Chairs.


My ROS has a neoprene pad under the hook n loop. Rasp and file goes fast though, they are real efficient combined with a spokeshave, hitting the cross grain tangential shaping that a spokeshave isn't good at (well, that my el cheapo $15 stanley isn't good at).



> Looking great, Waldo!
> Cant wait to see it finished. What kind of cushions are you going to make/use?


Making some standard box cushions, full length for each the back and seat. The seat cushion will be 22"x46"x4", medium foam, the back cushion will be 17"x46"x3", medium foam. I already bought a sewing machine and ordered the foam, I just need to pick up some fabric (and thread, and welt cord, and zippers (covers are to be washable)).


----------



## DanKrager

Waldo, That is a fine looking repose! It's been inspiring to watch it unfold, so another thank you for sharing it!

DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Mucho bueno Walds. Thanks for sharing and inspiring some curves around here.

I know I'm always blabbin about premium tools, but I really do think a modern spokeshave like a Veritas would help in your process (when the budget allows of course). In my experience the mouths are tighter than vintage and they just seem to work better with hardwoods and funky grain.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Is that blood splatter on the cover of that magazine, Red?
> 
> - TraylorPark


Nah, that's just sawdust…part of the print. Does look like bright wood though.


----------



## Pezking7p

Color for the cushions? Cream? White? Something funky?

So, sometimes I feel like I just post pictures here, and I'm trying to do a better job of giving back. But I don't bother because I figure if I know how to do something, surely everyone here does too. Anyway, I've just dropped off my first commissioned pieces - a pair of storage benches - and I wanted to write about the business breakdown of this deal. Thinking about this project as a business instead of as a hobby has made me analyze my own use of time in the shop. I think Smitty had a very similar reaction, and he went through a similar exercise. So, here's the breakdown and my thoughts.

0.5 hr - Meet with client and get dimensions and ideas. 
0.5 hr - Design and cut list layout
1.5 hr - Buy materials (pick up wood and search/order parts)
2.5 hr - Cut parts and assemble into boxes
1.5 hr - CUT POCKET HOLE PLUGS FLUSH, FILL, AND SAND!!!!
1.5 hr - Edge band and trim (no edge banding trimmer)
4.0 hr - PAINT (2 coats)
1.0 hr - Two failed attempts at stenciling a letter "B". Had to repaint over top.
0.5 hr - Paint and apply pre-cut letter 'B's purchased from Etsy. 
0.5 hr - Install hinges
0.5 hr - Delivery

Total - 14.5 hrs
Material Cost - $245 
Payment - $500
Wage - $17.59/hr

I'm just going to stream of consciousness a few things here by bullet point.

-Wage is not bad. A lot of people would like to make this woodworking. However, I did not factor in any overhead costs like tool wear, shop utilities, etc etc etc. At the end of the day I would be paying myself the equivalent of something like $12/hr if you had a full time job somewhere.

-Notice that I only spent about 3 hours doing what most people consider to be "woodworking". That's about 20% of my time spent building, which is supposedly the part of this job in which I am skilled enough to charge for. This has interesting business implications. I can hire someone to meet with customers, to pick up lumber, make deliveries, paint…this part just gets me thinking about manufacturing.

-HUGE mistake #1 - Pocket holes. Pocket holes were a waste of time. I should have just countersunk deck screws into the corners and saved myself the time of drilling pocket holes, plugging pocket holes, trimming pocket holes plugs, and then filling the void with putty. All in all I would say this mistake cost me about 2 hrs.

-HUGE mistake #2 - Latex Paint. I will never, ever latex paint a piece of furniture again. What a disaster. The finish is textured, dries slowly, difficult to apply evenly, and even after days it's tacky and sticks to itself (the lid sticks when closed). I should have sprayed lacquer. I would have saved another 2 hrs.

-Life lesson - stencils are hard. I repeat, stencils are HARD.

I have to say that overall this was a pretty painless experience. I have a little bit of jingle in my pocket, word is out about what I'm doing, so I may pick up more business. I would do this again. Hope you can learn something from my breakdown and my rambling thoughts. Maybe it will just change the way you think about time spent in your shop, but I doubt it


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Pez. Very similar to my own experiences. Just curious, you have alluded to pursuing this as a profession. Is that something you're considering?

I lost my hour log on the dining set sometime during the move….but I know I lost my arse on the chairs. lawlz.


----------



## Waldo88

> Mucho bueno Walds. Thanks for sharing and inspiring some curves around here.
> 
> I know I m always blabbin about premium tools, but I really do think a modern spokeshave like a Veritas would help in your process (when the budget allows of course). In my experience the mouths are tighter than vintage and they just seem to work better with hardwoods and funky grain.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Oh my spokeshave isn't vintage.

Its one of these:









A Stanley 12-951, run about $15 on Amazon. Does what I need it to do, and heck I never seem to need to sharpen it.

I get tear out if I go the wrong way, but its alright with the grain. I keep it set pretty aggressive, I see it as a "rough" tool.

Someday I suppose I'll upgrade from the uber cheap tools I have. At least my planes and chisels are decent.


----------



## widdle

Pez…If we're gonna be together….Your gonna have to do better…

Interesting stuff..If i added up the tools and equipment and up keep..Big numbers…

Seems like besides doing customs for peeps, mabye some smaller projects that can be batched out is a good call..


----------



## Pezking7p

Red, I think this experience has changed my thoughts on that somewhat. I don't know how I feel about committing that much time to a side business. I would feel a lot better about it at $30/hr than I would at $17/hr. I think the key to these kinds of prices is working with commercial customers. Or doing built ins. not exactly fine woodworking, but it's building things.

I guess a 10 hour car ride can give you a lot of time to think. Things look different from home base, lol. I like my cushy day job!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"I think those who care about our craft will agree that our furniture - and much of our material culture - has been ruined by mass-manufacturing. In the span of two generations we have gone from when a time when a newly-wed couple would buy a dining set that would last their whole lives, to a time when it's accepted (even necessary) to replace your furniture every few years." - Chris Schwarz, The Anarchist's Design Book


----------



## Waldo88

> Color for the cushions? Cream? White? Something funky?


Last time we were browsing the fabric store, I found one that was perfect. It was a greenish teal that was a bit desaturated, not the intensity of teal (though nowhere near as far as sea foam, sort of in-between). It had a single stand of a reddish brown running through it. It had a pretty cool pattern in the weave of the fabric itself (very chill though, looked like a plain solid from afar). A perfect midcentury style upholstery fabric that just so happened to be ideal to pair with cherry. It was in a bin to be priced and wouldn't sell it to me on the spot, hopefully its still there next time we go.



> Thinking about this project as a business instead of as a hobby has made me analyze my own use of time in the shop. I think Smitty had a very similar reaction, and he went through a similar exercise.


I suppose this is one place where better tools would help a lot. I'm happy with the quality of what I make, and I can create what I envision, but speed is not part of how I woodwork. I easily have 100 hours of work in my loveseat already, the credenza I made was probably closer to 150. Just can't sell stuff profitably with that sort of time commitment.


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## bearkatwood

May the Schwarz be with you Red. 
You have been doing some good book shopping this year.


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## Waldo88

> "I think those who care about our craft will agree that our furniture - and much of our material culture - has been ruined by mass-manufacturing. In the span of two generations we have gone from when a time when a newly-wed couple would buy a dining set that would last their whole lives, to a time when it s accepted (even necessary) to replace your furniture every few years." - Chris Schwarz, The Anarchist s Design Book
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Cost expectations (from mass manufacturing) is what ruins it. Quality can be found if you know how to look. We have some very nice Ikea pieces that will likely last forever (heck the ubiquitous Poang chair is pretty much indestructible).


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## Pezking7p

I've spent some time thinking about batched products, widdle. Cutting boards, smaller tables, but I think the market is too small for those to sell quickly. Maybe on Amazon or etsy?

I'd really like to get a business card out to local businesses. Big batches of tables, bar tops, displays, that kind of thing.


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## DanKrager

I like your summary, Pez because it does begin the process of thinking about a business model. There are many more things to consider but very hard to define in a small environment. At first they don't amount to enough to be worth the trouble to define; things like overhead (electricity, heat, cleanup and disposal costs, space consumed, maintenance, consumables, dust and vapor abatement, etc), travel time for pickup and delivery, bookkeeping functions, advertising etc. Accountants call them direct and indirect expenses. As you do more stuff these will be come noticeable and must be considered carefully. The devil is always in the details.

When I first read the "log" I couldn't help thinking that he's already shorted his time on the first line. I've NEVER been able to meet with and discuss ideas and get dimensions in 30 min, even if the clients came to my place and I don't like them. Did you include travel time and the BS time or reason that well I did spend two hours away from the shop to get there and back and we spent about 45 min just BS'n about other stuff, but I think its fair to say 30 min was spent on design time. You can, of course, reckon it any way you like, but you have to be desperately honest as a cost accountant to be able to calculate accurately what your profit is. You were away from productivity for two hours for accounting purposes (just an example…not saying you were!) The point here is that you have to be disappointingly honest to yourself without regard for the bottom line when you are costing. It will be what it will be and you can't fix bad planning (pricing) with shorted logs. Please know that I'm not calling you out, merely trying to expand on details like you are trying to illustrate. This very issue is what cost many shops their future.

The price I have to charge for a custom piece has always astonished me when rigorous cost accounting algorithms are applied. There are situations where one just has to walk away because one cannot buy the materials for what a high quality mass produced piece would cost the client. Kitchen cabinets are a good example of that. Perhaps part of the fun and challenge is to find an exception.

DanK


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## bearkatwood

> I m happy with the quality of what I make, and I can create what I envision, but speed is not part of how I woodwork.
> 
> - Waldo88


I have heard all I need to. If you really love making furniture and working with wood, it will show in every piece you touch and the money will follow. Making money at what I do is a bonus. 
All the best to you, you have a great attitude.


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## CL810

I've been studying etsy lately exploring some ideas. Love their low fees. But, there are a lot of sellers. When you go to the sellers shops, it shows how many items they have sold. Great way to see what sells. Distressing that there are so many selling so little.


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## BigRedKnothead

> I suppose this is one place where better tools would help a lot. I m happy with the quality of what I make, and I can create what I envision, but speed is not part of how I woodwork. I easily have 100 hours of work in my loveseat already, the credenza I made was probably closer to 150. Just can t sell stuff profitably with that sort of time commitment.
> 
> - Waldo88





> Red, I think this experience has changed my thoughts on that somewhat. I don t know how I feel about committing that much time to a side business. I would feel a lot better about it at $30/hr than I would at $17/hr. I think the key to these kinds of prices is working with commercial customers. Or doing built ins. not exactly fine woodworking, but it s building things.
> 
> I guess a 10 hour car ride can give you a lot of time to think. Things look different from home base, lol. I like my cushy day job!
> 
> - Pezking7p


You guys are pickin up what I'm putting down. Maybe we can't afford to quit our day jobs, and maybe we can't afford to buy the furniture we want….but we sure as hellz can make it.


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## bearkatwood

Can I get a witness!! Amen brother Red!!
Preach it baby!


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## bearkatwood

That was my woodworking revival. I wish you could all quit your day jobs because you are part of this revival, the search for decent craftsmanship in our household items.
At the beginning of the arts and crafts movement over 120 years ago Morris wrote
"The treasures in our museums now are only the common utensils used in households of that age" 
He was talking about previous makers work and how it was shown in galleries as the industrial revolution had polluted the market with factory produced Crap! 
This exists today in our mass produced furniture and is sold to us as the "good stuff" 
The people sitting in the pews of this forum know the truth and we are moving to take back our dining rooms and living spaces. Fight the good fight.


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## Hammerthumb

wow! Sometimes you guys just blow me away not only with your projects, but with your discussions.

First of all, I agree whole heartedly with Brian, but due to this I know that I will never become a professional woodworker (I'm too old anyway). Every piece that I have ever made, I have given away or kept for myself. I have never charged a dime for any woodworking. This is not only because as a maker, I have a hard time putting a dollar value to it, but also because any projects I take on are for the love of what I do and are done within my own time constraints and design. I admire those that can woodwork for paying customers and build to customer expectations and not their own.

I also have to agree with Dan. The truth is always in the details. What I do for a living is estimate and project manage. Anywhere from $5k to $5mil or more. But it is commercial tile and stone projects which I really have no love for. Don't get me wrong, I love what I do for a living but it is not my passion, as is woodworking.
What I know from estimating is that there is always more to it than what someone may think, and true job costing will bring to light the unforeseen items that may have been overlooked during an estimate. I know that Dan has been doing this long enough to be able to account for a lot of the unknown items that I'm talking about.

I am not chiming in to discourage anyone from following their passion, just a little reminder to keep your eyes open to all financial considerations. Most of all, do not lose the passion of what you are doing in exchange for a dollar.

To those of you who have been able to realize their passion of woodworking as career (Dan, Brian, and others), I envy you and what you do every day.

Anyway, I have to go finish my corned beef and cabbage leftovers. Thanks for letting me chime in.


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## bearkatwood

You have a very valid point. There are always unforeseens on any bid. Sometimes the job goes well and the till comes out even, other times that unforeseen issue breaks the bank. There are still other times when the unforeseen works in your favor and you make out like a bandit.
When I first started out I was horrible at bidding and basically paid people to work for them sometimes. Over the years I had learned by the school of hard knocks, they say fools learn by no other, but it has paid off. I am incredibly blessed to be in the position I am, doing what I love and getting paid to do it, but it came at a cost. There were many lean years and some painful memories to get to the point where people are asking for my work. 
When I actively made a search for perfection in my work and pushed my skills, things picked up because people could see the passion in the work, having a little bidding experience didn't hurt. I had built a good bank of positive ratings on the site I used for some of my sails that was a benefit as well.
I hope the best for anyone who wants to take on this daring careen, but I caution you. Don't get into woodworking for the money as you will not get rich, saving lighting strikes and you turn out to be the next Morris or Esheric or Maloof.  Follow your passion in life! If you are able to turn your vacation into your vocation, you are blessed.
Have a great day.


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## Hammerthumb

Well said Brian! That was my exactly my point. I sometime have a hard time expressing myself, but I have found that is another one of your many talents.

Well, it's back to the grindstone for me right now. Projects to bid, stone to procure. You all have a nice day!


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## theoldfart

have a good time getting stone(d) Paul !


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## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Brian. Another thing I've considered, if guys like Pez and I were to attempt making our current lifestyle in woodworking, we would need to make stuff up to the standard of folks like Doucette and Wolfe. Then, we would be working primarily for wealthy people. No offense Mr. Trump, I don't want to work for you.

Already in reading the Anarchist's Design Book, Chris talks about how most all the furniture we aspire to…. was all built for the wealthy back in the day. It's labor-some, and no wonder none of us can afford it unless we make it. On the other hand, there is a whole world of aesthetically pleasing, yet easier to build furniture…..waiting for all of us to build.

I'll quote directly from the book. Now you will all want to buy it;-)


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## JayT

I, for one, am perfectly happy to do woodworking as a hobby. I like having the ability to design and build what I like (or, possibly more accurately, my wife likes) and use the shop as a release and relaxation time. If woodworking became a career, I would end up doing work I don't always like for people I may or may not like, just to make ends meet. That sounds just like my current job, only with less stability on the income side.

Those that do woodworking for a living have my utmost admiration, I just don't have any desire to join you. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

Part B: Building on Red's excellent post.

(steps onto soapbox)

I laugh when I hear people talk about how much better things were built in the past. The reason for that perception is that the only things that survived to today are the well built and well maintained pieces. The lower quality stuff got thrown out, just like we do with the knockdown, IKEA-esque furniture of today. Use it until it falls apart and get a new one.

Guess what, people did that 100 years ago, too. Since it was real wood and not particle board, they might have reused the boards that something was made out of to bang together another temporary piece with some nails. You occasionally find one of those in a barn or antique store, but just not very often because they didn't hold up under use. That is the case for other categories of hard goods, as well-cars, machinery, etc. Only the well made ones have survived.

What we end up doing is comparing the best of a previous era with the average or lower quality products of today-not a fair comparison. Compare the best of today with the things that have survived and it's a much more even fight. I'd dare to venture that most of the best quality items of today are better than the best quality of years past due to advancements and being able to build on what others have learned and passed on.

(steps off soapbox)


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## bearkatwood

Red you have hit on something. Our work is acquired more by those of wealth than more modest peoples, but we have control in the sales. We don't have to sell our souls to make a living. I have been able to sell to people that I am very fond of and when I encounter a reptile, I either make my price so unreasonable as to negate the sale or if the sale goes thru I am happily compensated to deal with their proclivities of being horrible. I doubt Douchette and Wolfe sell to people they can't stand or have reservations about. Have you tried dealing with gallery owners, there are a brood of vipers and what about interior decorators. : ( neither I care for.
Not many times in life do the windfalls of success take someone by surprise, it is usually very hard won success. I have been fortunate enough to have opportunities to gift the public with some of my work. 
When I first started out I met a couple that had recently lost their first child days after birth. There had been an account raised for them to cope and they chose to use it to commission two rockers, one for themselves and one to place in the maternity ward of the local hospital. I had the headrests engraved as a memorial and it was great to see what a difference it made to people. I am currently starting a grant project for my local library which will give the public a chance to enjoy my work as well. I am very fond of promoting the fine arts and feel it should be made available to everyone, that is how a great society grows. 
Thanks for the compliment Hammerthumb, I am not a wordsmith such as Megan Fitzpatrick or Chris Schwarz. Krenov had a philosophers tongue in writing about this fine craft. I try to write how I feel about it and I am thankful if it is well received. Have you read some of Reds' blog, that guy has a way about writing that tugs at your heartstrings. 
http://www.westfallwoodcraft.com/p/blog.html
I hope you all have a great day and have fun woodworking if you get the chance. I am stuck in a hotel swimming pool room with three loud teens as I wait to pick up some leftovers from a gallery. No shop in site, yuck. Then a six hour drive home. more yuck.
You guys are the best! take care.


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## Waldo88

> Good stuff Brian. Another thing I ve considered, if guys like Pez and I were to attempt making our current lifestyle in woodworking, we would need to make stuff up to the standard of folks like Doucette and Wolfe. Then, we would be working primarily for wealthy people. No offense Mr. Trump, I don t want to work for you


I tell this to people all the time (well a more condensed version for people that don't know furniture). Yes I make some nice stuff that would sell for pretty good money, way more than most people I interact with would ever spend on furniture (usually by several orders of magnitude). I'm sure I could actually carve out a living doing it. But I'm an engineer in my day job, while I am by no means rich, there aren't a whole lot of woodworkers (esp furniture makers) that make what I make.

Granted a successful individual furniture maker can create a larger business and take on a company president role, but that job becomes business/management and not woodworking. I am an engineer; a designer of things, not a businessman, to shift my career to woodworking would require a major lifestyle downgrade. Even if I make really nice things that sell for lots of money.

There is the pardox, the nicer you make things, that can and should sell for quite a bit of money, the fewer customers you have. You come to have a clientele that is purely the wealthy.



> I, for one, am perfectly happy to do woodworking as a hobby. I like having the ability to design and build what I like (or, possibly more accurately, my wife likes) and use the shop as a release and relaxation time.


Ha, isn't that the truth. I often wonder how different my path would be were it not for my wife's editing.


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## Pezking7p

One thing that is often overlooked when discussing throw-away furniture: it allows you to change out items or redesign much more easily than if you bought a $6000 table. Yah it will last you a lifetime, but do you want it for a lifetime? Not everyone does.


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## Pezking7p

Yah, Red and Waldo. It must be nice to make so much money that you couldn't possibly make up for it by woodworking.


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## Mosquito

I would be surprised if I could SELL as much in woodworking as I make as a software developer, let alone take home. (not saying "anyone", just me personally) I enjoy programming, and it's not something I'd want to give up either… I prefer to keep my day-job as my day-job and woodworking as my hobby. I could use a more enjoyable split in time while keeping the incomes the same though lol


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## Pezking7p

Dang, this is a humble bunch.

I think I could make as much as I do at work, but I would need to hire a few people to make it happen. That's a big step for me. Day jobs are cushy n'stuff.


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## Mosquito

I guess if I were to operate a small business with employees I might, but I was thinking me on my own. 1-man shop type of deal. I do think it would be fun to be able to do custom wooden computer cases on commission though. Would keep them out of my house that way


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## Waldo88

> I guess if I were to operate a small business with employees I might, but I was thinking me on my own. 1-man shop type of deal. I do think it would be fun to be able to do custom wooden computer cases on commission though. Would keep them out of my house that way
> 
> - Mosquito


Right. But at that point your job is no longer woodworker primarily. You are mostly a company president; a manager. The $$ comes from the business side; your skill as a woodworker isn't really important.


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## BigRedKnothead

> Dang, this is a humble bunch.
> 
> I think I could make as much as I do at work, but I would need to hire a few people to make it happen. That s a big step for me. Day jobs are cushy n stuff.
> 
> - Pezking7p


Humility is an honorable trait. That said, I have no problem saying that I believe I have the talent and work ethic to pull off being a furniture maker. But that ship has sailed for me. I have a family to think of. A family with a disabled wife and a son with expensive health issues as well. Giving up railroad health insurance would be financial suicide for us.

There was a window I could have went that route. After college, I moved back to my moms basement for a bit. I worked for a wealthy dude building cabinets and built-ins (wish I had pics of that stuff). I had offers to go up into the mountains and be a bachelor/cabinetmaker/artisian….but I chose Heather instead. Any regrets? Nope. I realize which road made me into the better person.

I do get twinges of regret, envy…whatever, when I see guys like Schwarz, Sellers, Spagnuolo, and all the new hand tool makers. All folks who I perceive as a very vital part of the preservation of this craft, and all have a role in the "Hand Tool Ranaissance" that is alive and well. I sometimes wish I could play a bigger part in that. But, with my blog, my activity on this site, and most recently on Instagram…... I kinda hope that I am playing my role - small as it may be.


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## BigRedKnothead

doh


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## BigRedKnothead

> One thing that is often overlooked when discussing throw-away furniture: it allows you to change out items or redesign much more easily than if you bought a $6000 table. Yah it will last you a lifetime, but do you want it for a lifetime? Not everyone does.
> 
> - Pezking7p


That's another whole topic. The reason I was drawn to arts & crafts, shaker, and modern furniture, is because the designs are rather timeless. They looked good in people's homes 100 years ago and still do.

Can you say the same about Victorian, Chippendale…and so on. They are overly ornate and tough to incorporate into a home.


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## Mosquito

> Right. But at that point your job is no longer woodworker primarily. You are mostly a company president; a manager. The $$ comes from the business side; your skill as a woodworker isn t really important.
> 
> - Waldo88


I agree.


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## Mosquito

> That s another whole topic. The reason I was drawn to arts & crafts, shaker, and modern furniture, is because the designs are rather timeless. They looked good in people s homes 100 years ago and still do.
> 
> Can you say the same about Victorian, Chippendale…so one. They are overly ornate and tough to incorporate in a home.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


While I agree with this, I also agree with Pez on his point. I agree with everyone, apparently lol

My preference is similar to yours Red, but I see Pez's point in that not everyone is ok with the buy once mentality, and I get that too.


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## BigRedKnothead

I'll top that argument(lawlz) with the notion that, regardless of style, well-made furniture could simply be sold or passed on to family. Ya know, instead of going to the landfill.


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## Mosquito

A valid point as well lol I would think it's the cheap, not necessarily disposable, aspect that is attractive about those who buy new furniture every 3-5 years, though; then again quality usually holds value as well, so there's that. I think it would be an interesting topic to hear some woodworking intellects debate over


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## Hammerthumb

That's funny Mos. I thought we were the woodworking intellects!


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## Hammerthumb

I have to say, this is one of the most intelligent conversations I've read on LJs. Except for Stef's thread.


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## JayT

I'd offer that most furniture that is truly stylish and well designed will work with a variety of tastes and decor choices over a long period of time. Those pieces which are based on fads and trends are what gets thrown away when they no longer fit someone's taste because they don't have the flexibility to be adapted to the new fad.


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## Pezking7p

You could sell them, yes, but probably not at top value. Maybe, though, the loss in value would be similar to what you would pay for a throw-away piece? Wouldn't that be economic justice.

And, I'm just razzing you guys about making so much money.

If you started a business, who says you need to be the manager? You could hire people to do the work you don't want to, including sales, marketing, and managing. For that matter, once you get it started, you can pay someone to run it for you and just reap the profits. Then you can use your free time to do your woodworking, beer making, bacon smoking, etc.


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## bobasaurus

Smoothing the legs and routing the edges:


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## widdle

being in construction for so long, i tired of homeowners and architects,designers etc…Soo know i take time off now and than and build sort of random stuff from funky boxes, crafty stuff,coffee tables, benches, side tables,so not necessarily furniture.. and got lucky and have a couple friends of friends that have these boutique type stores in the trendy parts of LA. I tell them what i want for the pieces, and they take it or leave it…I like it like that…I don't even go in and see what there mark up is…Better that way for me… But, the way the stores are designed and displayed are unreal…helps the sales in my opinion…
The nakashima style spinoffs and slab tables with basic but cool metal or wood legs fetch thousands sometimes out here…. Woodworking/construction…Work or put your stuff where the people got big cash….Am i driven by money ? Not at all…But i can't handle putting a price tag on something and than have some kook if he can have it for a hundy less…No dude…you get nothing…


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## widdle

Looks like you got something interesting there bobasaurous…Just checked your website,,,Cool stuff, I like your style..


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## jmartel

I'll respond to the point earlier about not wanting the type of customers that can pay D&W prices.

There's a lot of animosity towards those who have way more than others out there. I consider myself lucky enough to have plenty of experience meeting and working for both poor and 1% of 1%ers. There's a lot of dbag rich people, but not every poor person is a saint, either. I can't honestly say that I've seen one group of people behave better consistently than the other. I am just as comfortable having someone with 10x my income as I am with someone with 1/5th.

My personal preferences lean towards blue collar even though I have an engineering job. Honestly, most of the trades I work with make as much or more than I do, anyway.

Regarding doing it for a living: I'm actually giving it some serious thought and moving towards preparing myself for it. I greatly enjoy the design process, and there's no way I would have enough room to house the furniture I want to build. I'm still a few years out, though. Need more practice so I can get into the high end market, and I need to move somewhere with a lower mortgage and a separate shop. Luckily I have a wife with an engineering job which makes more than me to fall back on if needed. Wouldn't be able to do it alone.

Right now it seems I can nail my joinery perfect about 50% of the time. Needs to be higher before I'm willing to quit my day job. But I'll continue doing it on the side in the meantime.


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## DanKrager

"I knew Jfamous when he was just a …." Will you remember me? HA!

Sounds like a good dream.

DanK


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## jmartel

I think I could comfortably charge about half what I'd need to right now based off of my skill level and speed. I'll keep working on it though. It's just difficult as a side gig to get the time and energy and not get burned out. Work full time in a day job, only to come home and put another 20+ hours a week in.


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## BigRedKnothead

Along with the good discussion, I spent most the afternoon milling the 5/4 cherry for the dining table top. Some by hand, most by power. I took special care in trying to get them as flat as possible so it own't be a headache after glue up. 









The candidates for cherry dining table top. I always wrestle with this part. Which defects can I live with, which ones can I not? Then again, when I browse at furniture stores in cabinet shops, it always bums me out when they didn't take a little time for stock selection.










I milled up extra, so even taking out the boards I didn't like, I still have enough. They're stickered in my shop for a week or so.

And now, I've got the last evening of vacation blues.


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## TheFridge

When it comes to dimensioning, power me up Scotty.


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## bearkatwood

Looks good Red, sorry your vacation had to end.


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## TraylorPark

Loving the discussion here. I'm still way too new to the game to think about going at it full time, even though my wife is the major bread winner in our house. However, I can see in about a decade maybe when the kids are little older and I have more free time and better skills, of course, making woodworking a solid second or part-time gig. I don't think I can ever give up my job at the university for the free college tuition benefit for my girls. In the mean time I plan on filling our house with as many custom pieces as I can and build stuff for friends as they ask.

On the discussion of resale I have a little experience with that. My wife is on a local mommy swap group on facebook where people sell mostly kids items and things that have been outgrown, but some household items as well. So usually now when I build something to replace items in the house she will sell them there. Last year she sold a head board that I made about 10 years ago that IMO was absolute crap made with 4×4 posts and some cheap pine planks, horrible joinery the whole nine yards of first time builder junk, I made her swear that she wouldn't tell the buyer I had made it. Anyway it sold for $50, probably all I had in it really, and we got 9 years of use out of it. There have been a couple other things like that as well. Maybe she didn't get the cost of materials for them, but when you factor in the years of use I'd say we made out like bandits on these learning items. So with the right audience there is room for resale of lesser quality.


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## WillliamMSP

Before moving back to MN, I worked in Manhattan, in the high-end audio business (no, like really high end). Our 'entry-level' stuff was certainly accessible to the dedicated of more modest means, though, so I did work with a wide range of people, from blue collar to silver spoon. I'll echo jmart's sentiment - most of my clients, stupid wealthy or not, were very good people. I will say, though, that the most rewarding customers were the customers that had genuine appreciation and enthusiasm for the gear and for the music it produced.

This appreciation, or lack thereof, is where there may have been a little fall-of with the wealthier clients; if your stuff is priced such that someone of modest means has to be really in to it to pull the trigger, well, those buyers with modest means are automatically appreciators. The more wealthy, though, will sometimes buy… just because. Because they don't want to stoop to having something from Best Buy in their living room, because it's more fitting with the decor, because they need a tax write-off, etc, etc. So, whereas the less wealthy with little appreciation either left without buying or didn't come in at all, I would sometimes have to work with wealthy people with little interest in what were we doing, and that was sometimes a chore.


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## bearkatwood

It can be very difficult to find clients who are appreciative consistently. There are more than a few wankers in the world that think they deserve it all and get to make you feel like dirt while you are working for them. That is just the nature of humans, I guess, to suck, but there are those moments when you meet someone who appreciates your work and is very happy to work with you and get your product. Those moments are the ones to keep coming back for, rare as thy are. Nice gear there by the way William.
It is too bad they don't have an Angie's list for crappy clients, so the craftsman can see what they are getting into. 
Oh, look this guy has four silver spoons shoved up his @$$, better double the commission.  
Hope you all encounter nice people and have a really great day.


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## TraylorPark

Dang, William, that picture of the audio setup would be awesome for blowing my eardrums, lol.


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## theoldfart

Bill, are those speakers Wilson Watt Pupies?


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## Pezking7p

Does anyone use a commission contract? This type of agreement is standard when undertaking work in the business world, and always covers scope of work and remediation in case of a dispute. Seems like this type of contract would really help with ********************ty customers.

A lot of times people get upset because they had a different expectation than you did, and a contract helps supplier and customer align.


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## WillliamMSP

> Bill, are those speakers Wilson Watt Pupies?
> 
> - theoldfart


No - Watt Puppies were much, much smaller. These are Focal Grand Utopias.


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## theoldfart

Those things are bigger than my living room, and I thought my B&W's were big!


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## jmartel

> Does anyone use a commission contract? This type of agreement is standard when undertaking work in the business world, and always covers scope of work and remediation in case of a dispute. Seems like this type of contract would really help with ********************ty customers.
> 
> A lot of times people get upset because they had a different expectation than you did, and a contract helps supplier and customer align.
> 
> - Pezking7p


Right now, no because I work for cash and on the side. As soon as I go legit, then yes I do plan on it. There's a lot of things that you can do to protect you and your clients both. Things like a design fee ($100ish?) that then gets applied to the total price so that they are less likely to take your design and go to someone else. Delivery dates with a fee per day after the original due date. That works for both buyer and seller, as the seller has to store it if the client can't take it, and the seller was expecting it by a certain date and didn't get it. I currently do 50% down, 50% due on delivery. Will probably change it to 50% down, 25% due before finish is applied, and 25% due on delivery. Additionally, have the buyer sign the sample piece with the finish that they select so that there's no confusion.


----------



## jmartel

Here you go, Pez. Thos Moser is having a 15% off sale on their lounge stuff right now. No need to build your chair, just buy it! $450 off.

http://www.thosmoser.com/category/lounge_seating/product/429/lolling_chair__and__ottoman/


----------



## jmartel

Both drawers are dry fit and work great. I still need to cut the dadoes for the bottom panel and make the bottom panels though.


----------



## Pezking7p

I talked them down to about $2700 for the chair+ottoman the last time I was in the store. Some sale they had going on at thanksgiving.


----------



## bearkatwood

There is a hole in your underwear, I mean your drawers ain't got no bottoms. Lookin great, poplar and beech looks like they will go together very nicely.


----------



## dbray45

Before I had my computer business, I did a lot of stuff for a lot of people. One I started the company, the rules were different. What we do for fun may not be fun when it is the only source to revenue. The way you build is rarely the same, the quality may change, when you are doing things as a hobby, there are many people that want what you make. When the shingle goes up, these folks vanish.

I am not trying to discourage anyone but you need to work these things out before you start the company.

Then there is the local legal stuff, insurance, taxes, unions, EPA, all that good stuff to deal with.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Looks good Jeff!


----------



## DanKrager

Last weekend's craft show turned up an order for some Love Tails. These are fun to make and become part of how this little seat locks together.









DanK

Edit: Sketchup does not show the correct grain orientation for the sides.


----------



## Pezking7p

Finish looks a little blotchy to me, Dan. I think you should have used a wash coat.


----------



## DanKrager

LAWL! I'll fix that later.
DanK


----------



## jmartel

How do you round over the male part of the hearts? I imagine you just use a drill bit to cut out the round portions on the female section, but I'm trying to figure out how to do the male portion so that you don't have any gaps.


----------



## theoldfart

Doesn't Wood Rat or some other company make a dovetail guide for that fancy stuff?


----------



## DanKrager

There are templates for similar looking tails but there are no sharp corners. Yes, the fit can be more consistently perfect and quickler that way, but the ones I've done so far are pretty gapless. The templates speed things up but not as much as you would hope. I just don't like the looks of them next to these.

Using a double moxon setup so the pieces cannot move, I take a 0.5mm mechanical drafting pencil with a long snout and trace the hearts on the end grain of the mating piece. This is where any wanderings are compensated. With a dove tail back saw, I cut down the straight sides of the pins almost to the line. Then it's chisel, V-gouge, 9 sweep gouge, and file work to shape the pin leaving the pencil line and being careful about perpendicularity. Once the pins start to mate, I carefully file the shiny rubs until they mate firmly. This is why they're called love tails because it takes some TLC to finesse them.

The previous link shows the start of the tails.
DanK


----------



## bearkatwood

A long time ago I made a Buddhist jewelry cabinet for a client that had dovetails that came with a set that has the hearts as well. I don't use the system very often, but they are fun. It is done on the router table. 
It was from woodline.


----------



## theoldfart

TLC is an understatement, I'd go blind trying to see "rub" marks!

Edit: Brian, that's the one I was referring to. I had seen ads for them in the ww'ing mags.


----------



## DanKrager

That's a right fine cabinet there, Brian.

DanK


----------



## jmartel

I hadn't thought of a curved gouge. Thanks for that.


----------



## bearkatwood

Thanks, that was a fun cabinet. I made it about 6 or 7 years ago. The client was obviously a Buddhist and wanted the eight auspicious symbols on the front of the cabinet, so we had those lasered. 









The inside had an assortment of hooks and earring holders. 









The bottom had a ring holder with a secret compartment under it.


















I really liked how the front legs and top get out in front. I wish I had larger padauk int=stead of doing a glue-lam as you can see the seam, but it turned out nicely.


----------



## TraylorPark

Yeah, Brian I was going to mention that glue lam joint, lol.

I've entered the stage of never ending sanding hell on the desk. I'm going to do all the exposed surfaces down to 320 to help alleviate the large pores of the ash. I haven't decided if I"m going to do a wash coat with some thinned poly before stain or try some grain filler. Gotta do some test first. I think with the surface area of this thing I'm going to give a spray finish a shot. I've been using rattle can poly for a lot of my smaller stuff of late with good results so I'm pretty confident in my technique, so now it's time to try the HVLP gun. Any advice on brands of poly that have worked well for others?


----------



## bearkatwood

I think the glue joint showed up really bad because I had the grain direction in opposing directions. Not sure.
A thin mix of shellac works good to seal the grain before staining. 
I Just got done making some candlestick holders and finished them with rattle can of quick drying minwax lacquer and it makes for a really easy good looking finish. You can re-coat in like ten minutes.









I don't do a lot of spray finishing, but the way these are made, they are a pain to finish by hand. I got the lacquer from hardwareworld which is by far the cheapest place I have found it. Even with the shipping it was cheaper than my local hardware store by quite a bit. They also have a sanding sealer on that same page.


----------



## DanKrager

Zach, you've had positive experiences with polys but I've not enjoyed that privilege since 1967 when I tried my first poly experience. I turned a set of salad bowls that are still going strong with two coats of oil based poly, and the finish has held up all these years (actually 49 years to date….OH GAWD it's my anniversary…I must hurry!) without touch up. So I know the finish is (was) durable in some situations. A water based poly on a refinished chair has not fared well at all and the chair needs to be refinished from scratch. I think body oils made the finish sticky, just like the old varnishes became over time. A neighbor who does stripping furniture for a living wants to charge extra because it's poly. Go figure.

My main concern is that poly is not a serviceable finish because once thoroughly dry a second coat will not bond chemically to the first coat, only a mechanical bond which is weak. Over time that bond will eventually break down and then there is a mess. I've tried every trick I can discover to try to touch up polyurethane finishes to no avail. The layer line is always visible, can't blend it for nothing. Given that experience, I don't see how it could make a usable seal coat under stain. Do you suppose I'm missing something?

I think if you want a rather smooth finish on the open grain woods a filler coat or two is in order. I wouldn't trust mashed over grain and packed dust to make a durable filler. If you liked spraying with rattle cans, you'll LOVE the HVLP for spraying performance. But now you have clean up. Another reason I don't like poly. I have an 8 years old HVLP gun dedicated to lacquer and it has yet to be cleaned beyond wiping the over spray off the nozzle. I coated it new with Vaseline and renew that from time to time when the needle gets lubed.

My experience backs up what Bearkat is proposing. Lacquer is my friend. YMMV.

DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Interesting how preferences/experiences with can vary. Not a big fan of lacquer myself. The smell is part of it, and it just might be that I'm so comfortable with poly. Also might have a stigma from all the cheap 'oak express' furniture I've owned that had Since I have any hvlp now, I do play to try some lacquer and shellac to mix it up a bit.

Zach- I've sprayed a lot of minwax oil-based poly, and I've yet to have issues. I might thin just a little with min spirits, but not much. If you want water-based, but buddy raves about spraying the Varathane brand.


----------



## Mean_Dean

For you Queen Anne fans:


----------



## CL810

Interesting selection of vintage handles on etsy.


----------



## TheFridge

I recently discovered wiping on a finish ( Minwax spar urethane straight out the can) with shop towels. No real clean up necessary, looks pretty good, and it's pretty easy. Pretty much just straight out the can. Instead of knocking the luster down to satin I just bought a rattle can of satin poly for the final coat.


----------



## TraylorPark

I guess finishing is the never ending discussion. I just read Bob Flexner's book and I'd say I have a better idea of what or why to finish something a certain way. Now it's just getting comfortable with the applications. Anyway, I always appreciate the insight of others.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^That's the book I recommend to everyone for finishing Zach. Debugging the myths and concoctions the finish companies try to push helps a lot.

LJRay, I haven't forgot got about making a list of recommended books….yet….


----------



## rad457

If you can get OSMO products in your area give them a try, A hard wax product out of Germany that is amazing.


----------



## Waldo88

Good weekend of work, I'm just about done with the loveseat I'm working on










(not sure why that picture looks like crap when downsized; full size looks much better)

Need to cut the slots for the straps, sand the bottom of the seat support some more, and glue the seat support in. Should have finish on it by next weekend.

Do have a ? for those more experienced in the ways of wood. The match between the new lumberyard bought wood and the estate sale stuff I used for most of it is horrendous.










The top and bottom members of the back are the lumberyard bought stuff. Its all cherry, I tried to pick the darkest pieces they had. I know putting it in the sun will quickly even out the freshly sanded areas, but still, the estate sale wood is notably darker.

Now I have no idea as to the history of the estate sale boards, they could very well be 50 years old (doubtful, but 10+ wouldn't be a surprise at all), whereas the lumber yard boards almost surely were cut recently (under 2 yrs). I know cherry ages via light, but that should just be a surface patina, not the whole way through.

Will the cherry darken all the way through as it ages as well?

I'm trying to decide if I should dye the lumber yard boards to match (better at least), or if I should just let time take care of the problem. I am going to set it in sunlight as part of the finishing process. They don't have to match, some variation is fine, but right now if I didn't know better I'd say that it was a totally different species.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Maybe the difference between air dried and kiln dried?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Almost forgot to say, looks great Waldo!


----------



## Pezking7p

Looks fantastic, Waldo. IMO, after finish and a year in the sun, you'll not notice the difference so much, maybe not at all. I've worried about that's same issue before, as certain cherry boards just LOOK different. But the end result is that I've never noticed an unmatched board in one of my pieces.

Been cutting and fitting tenons. Is there such a thing as a tenon that doesn't need tuning? I'm still searching for it. I'm pretty close, but still have to hit each shoulder with a swipe or two. I did get the tenon thickness spot on, though. Might have the coffee table carcass together today.


----------



## DanKrager

There is an ambient state in which wood does not continue to darken (or oxidize) on the surface, just like there is such a state in rust. Without further agitation, the process slows down almost to a stop. In wood, air (oxygen) moves in and out of the wood continuing the process deeper into the wood, but it won't go all the way through in our lifetime. Finish retards this process, and penetrating finishes retard it more…but nothing stops it.
Even though the colors will eventually equalize fairly closely given the limitations of the wood itself due to growth conditions, I think the color variations add at least as much interest as distraction.

Looking good, man.
DanK


----------



## Waldo88

> IMO, after finish and a year in the sun, you ll not notice the difference so much, maybe not at all. I ve worried about that s same issue before, as certain cherry boards just LOOK different. But the end result is that I ve never noticed an unmatched board in one of my pieces.





> There is an ambient state in which wood does not continue to darken (or oxidize) on the surface, just like there is such a state in rust. Without further agitation, the process slows down almost to a stop. In wood, air (oxygen) moves in and out of the wood continuing the process deeper into the wood, but it won t go all the way through in our lifetime. Finish retards this process, and penetrating finishes retard it more…but nothing stops it.
> Even though the colors will eventually equalize fairly closely given the limitations of the wood itself due to growth conditions, I think the color variations add at least as much interest as distraction.


Thanks.

Some color variation is definitely a good thing. But when it is less variation and more of a contrast effect (which was definitely not intended), that gave me pause. Especially since all of it should darken in the sun, not just the lumber yard boards, there is no surface that has ever been exposed to any light but the fluorescent light in my basement shop, except for a few areas on the lumber yard boards I didn't have to sand all that much.

The estate sale boards I used could be very old. They were in a rough cut state and had a fair amount of lengthwise cracking; if Cherry does darken a good bit via oxidation, it could just be a sign of its age.

I suppose its easier to add color in the future should I not like how it ages than it is to take away color.


----------



## Waldo88

> Interesting selection of vintage handles on etsy.
> 
> - CL810


Came across one I just had to order.

A midcentury starburst (she had it displayed wrong), I've never seen anything like it. Easy to find a use for it in the future.

Thanks!


----------



## CL810

You're welcome!


----------



## john2005

> Yeah, Brian I was going to mention that glue lam joint, lol.
> 
> I ve entered the stage of never ending sanding hell on the desk. I m going to do all the exposed surfaces down to 320 to help alleviate the large pores of the ash. I haven t decided if I"m going to do a wash coat with some thinned poly before stain or try some grain filler. Gotta do some test first. I think with the surface area of this thing I m going to give a spray finish a shot. I ve been using rattle can poly for a lot of my smaller stuff of late with good results so I m pretty confident in my technique, so now it s time to try the HVLP gun. Any advice on brands of poly that have worked well for others?
> 
> - TraylorPark


Just catching up. Zach I have sprayed a number of finishes (primarily cause I work a body shop and have access to a spray booth so why not). I like the way lacquer lays down and sets up fast over poly. Poly even water based takes a bit to "flash" between coats. When I use lacquer though it is pre-cat lac. Meaning it is pre-catalyzed and starts to "kick" as soon as oxygen is introduced. It does have a shorter shelf life, but I have really come to like it. Recently however I tried General Finishes Enduro. It is a pre-cat, water-based poly. If you would have told me such a thing existed 15 years ago, I would have called you crazy, but it worked awesome. I did thin is just a hair, maybe 10% with distilled water, but I was using a 1.4 tip and had I been using a larger tip, it would have been fine. A 1.6 would have been perfect. It seems to be more durable than the lacquer too. I sprayed it on my boys (the older is 4 so you know it gets abused) bunk bed. In his same room is the door that I sprayed with lacquer. The door will scratch easier than the bed will and shows the wear more.

I hope something in there was helpful to you. I know everybody has their own preference as mentioned above.

The last few nights I have been applying Waterlox to a countertop that is a commissioned piece. I really like how durable it is seems to be, but it is a pain to lay down and takes a minimum of 12 hrs between coats, but they recommend 24. I like it when you can reapply in 20min or less. I will have more time in the finish process on this piece. But like I said, so far, it seems to be very durable so there's that.


----------



## TraylorPark

John, 
That's some good insight. I plan on using a water-based poly because the stain that I like is water based, so I'll be sure to check out the General Finishes. Thanks.


----------



## Pezking7p

John, does the enduro change the color of the wood like oil based poly? I know they have a product that does but I'm not sure which one that is. Also, how bad is the grain raising after the first coat?

I suppose you can always spray a coat of Amber shellac first for the color.


----------



## Pezking7p

So, I have the skeleton for my coffee table pretty much fitted. Just need to curve the bottom rails, taper the legs, and fit the drawer runners.

Question, the upper rails are kind of plain and square (they won't be arched like the lower rails). Thoughts on spicing it up a bit?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^DINKS are very productive.

(Double-Income-No-Kids)


----------



## Pezking7p

Jealousy is ugly, Red. Besides I've been working on it for two weekends now.


----------



## jmartel

I'm all about that DINK life for now. Although I do have 2 very large cats, do they count?


----------



## TheFridge

Do you wipe their butts everyday?

Then no.


----------



## jmartel

Thoughts on the corbel proportions compared to the rest of the design? Not sure if I should keep it as is or do something a bit different. Just held on with double sided tape for now. Rear legs will get them as well, but only made 2 for now.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^I usually dig corbels, but I'm iffy on that piece brudda.



> Jealousy is ugly, Red. Besides I ve been working on it for two weekends now.
> 
> - Pezking7p


That was for the dig about me being among the overpaid elite. lawlz.

I have been getting out there some. Carefully gluing up the tabletop. The sections are more doable because there is a leaf. 









I even started another project while this one is still going - something I rarely do. The cherry legs are cut for some night stands.


----------



## jmartel

So would you suggest getting rid of them completely? Or do something different.


----------



## TheFridge

Long corbels doesn't please my eye. Don't really know what it is. Maybe the vertical 1.5X as long as the top?

Edit: I think it'd be a nice touch in the right proportions. That's my vote.


----------



## john2005

> John, does the enduro change the color of the wood like oil based poly? I know they have a product that does but I m not sure which one that is. Also, how bad is the grain raising after the first coat?
> 
> I suppose you can always spray a coat of Amber shellac first for the color.
> 
> - Pezking7p


No, its pretty clear. It does raise the grain a bit, but I just knock it down with 800 in the booth. I do the spray bottle trick first though so its pretty minimal.

And I too think your corbels are a bit long there Jfancynightstand.


----------



## TheFridge

I think jmart is pushing his manhood upon us through his corbels.

Thanks J. now I'm insecure.


----------



## jmartel

I figured ending it halfway down the drawer front would look weird, so I continued it to the divider.


----------



## bobasaurus

First coat of arm-r-seal is on the shelf:










First time I've used this finish. I like it, though it does seem to streak unless I use heavy coats and carefully smooth with the pad (aka, follow the instructions… who would have thought). Lots of other pieces to finish still. It's going to take weeks.


----------



## MNgary

Not knowing the design you want to accomplish, Pez . . .that will not prevent me from giving my 2 cent opinion. But I think your project has great potential!!!

Maybe arch top of the drawer fronts, add slight arch to underside of the bottom rail, and your legs seem heavy so taper insides only from the front and side views.


----------



## DanKrager

Jcorbel, I'm with the shorten them a bit camp. Maybe an inch or so the curve points to the top of the stretcher, slightly above but not even with it. 


> Do you wipe their butts everyday?
> 
> Then no.
> 
> - TheFridge


ROFL, Fridge. Well played.

That's just one coat, Allen? It builds fast.

DanK


----------



## TraylorPark

> Do you wipe their butts everyday?
> 
> Then no.
> 
> - TheFridge


My wife is a vet and I'm pretty sure she has clients that do.


----------



## bearkatwood

That armrseal looks great. 
Red, you having kids is like the Irish having whisky. It is in place so You won't take over the world, they are there to keep you advancing slowly… for now


----------



## theoldfart

A prototype leg for the nightstands ( the forever project!)










one down, one more to try.


----------



## CL810

Oh, that looks nice!


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, I think that this will be the one I use but I have to try one other possibility.
Need to sharpen the plane as well, it won't handle the cherry at this point!


----------



## CL810

The Thomas Moser catalog arrived today. Soooo special.


----------



## LJRay

> LJRay, I haven t forgot got about making a list of recommended books….yet….


No worries.  I'm currently suffering from information overload. I need to get out there and *do* something. Unfortunately I'm still trying to convert part of my garage from storage to shop…


----------



## duckmilk

Very nice leg for the forever project Kev. Shaping that actually looks like fun. Now I want a compass plane.


----------



## theoldfart

Duck, good thing I didn't show a pic of my bow saw work! Still need a bit 'o practice.


----------



## TheFridge

Come on duck… You know you need one…

Nothing like the first coat BKW.


----------



## duckmilk

Catching up

Nice table Putty, I need to come see it sometime.

Brian, you do some amazing work

Waldo, I don't think the contrast looks so bad. Maybe give it some time like you were thinking

Pez, the construction photos remind me of Japanese architecture

Shorter corbels I think Jmart

Red, is gluing those levels to the top part of the design? ;-)

Looks nice Allen


----------



## bearkatwood

You know for an old fart, you sure got nice legs


----------



## theoldfart

Well gee Brian, now youv'e got me blushing. Tee-hee.

Thanks for the compliment.


----------



## bearkatwood

So Grabbed my surfboard this morning and was getting some tubular swells surfin the net bra! and I came across this thing. Is it another one of veritas's april fools jokes or an actual tool? 








Talk about gang cutting dovetails. Nice!
Oh, and if you haven't seen my first shop update, it is worth a watch. 




View on YouTube


----------



## johnstoneb

I'm going to say that is a Veritas April fools joke. It might work for gang cutting dovetails.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yup, looking forward to Lee Valley's April fools stuff for this year.

Bearkat. Good vid….goofball.

Schmoovin the table. I never have the luxury of totally clear lumber with grain that doesn't switch directions(cough D&W lol)....but its going pretty well. The extra care I took surfacing the stock, and then gluing it up….is paying off.


----------



## Waldo88

Now I need to figure out what sort of finish to put on the loveseat.

It likely won't be a heavily used piece; its going to make a sitting area in our master bedroom, most use will probably be reading to the boys before bed in the near term. Much of its function is to look nice in a sparse unused area; furniture as art is its primary function.

As there is no feasible place to put a drink, water protection needs are minimal.

I have no experience finishing cherry. The wife isn't terribly fond of it (cherry).

Maloof funiture is a good finishing inspiration, his seating has largely the same use (furniture as art that is occasionally used). He used a danish oil blend and wax.

Original danish modern designs varied. A lot just had oil or oil and wax. The original of the design I copied used lacquer.

But the european makers (and the americans they directly influenced, incl maloof) never used cherry, or uber rarely.

I'm definitely not going to bother with varnish. I'm almost surely going to start with a danish oil (a basic homemade mix).

Then either just wax, or moving on to spray a thin film finish. Lacquer has been my go to, but I'm toying with the idea of spraying a shellac. I've used shellac before but never sprayed. And I have a variety of flakes. Garnet would play up the red even further. Not sure what orange would do. Blond would warm just a hair, but cherry is already a warm color.

Any of y'all ever use shellac on cherry?


----------



## bearkatwood

GOOFBALL?? Goofball.
Guilty as charged your honor 
Did that LAJ help with the surfacing Red?


----------



## CL810

Waldo, I always hit cherry first with Zinser sealcoat to minimize blotching. Shellac, DO, or *************** will be fine.

Why did they avoid cherry in the US?


----------



## Waldo88

> Waldo, I always hit cherry first with Zinser sealcoat to minimize blotching. Shellac, DO, or *************** will be fine.
> 
> Why did they avoid cherry in the US?
> 
> - CL810


No idea. None of the american woodworkers/designers that are grouped with the danish modern movement (Vladimir Kagan, (George Nakashima), Sam Maloof, Adrian Pearsall, Paul McCobb) or the companies (Drexel, Boyhill, Lane, Heywood-Wakefield, Herman Miller, Knoll) really ever used the stuff. Maloof and Kagan used it a couple times, but that's about it.

I can understand why the Europeans didn't use it though (then again, Teak and Rosewood were all the rage, neither is native to Europe either).


----------



## WhoMe

Yep it was a Veritas April fools. Can't remember if it was one or two years ago. 
They always come up with some fun stuff


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Bearkat- I don't really use the LAJ….as a jack per say. Wouldn't want to curve the iron. Mostly jack and smoothers.

Waldo, ya either shellac or a Maloof mix.


----------



## john2005

Hahaha, Brian. You blew up your cat. Good show.


----------



## bearkatwood

Glad you liked it.
Have you seen this one, just came out this morning.




View on YouTube

Still waiting to see what Veritas has in store.
Have a great first day of April.


----------



## CL810

Thinking about this mitered finish to a dovetail joint for a chest I'll be building. Is it worth the effort?









Practicing with maple reveals all!


----------



## john2005

^Yes! Yes it is


----------



## WhoMe

Found the Veritas "fools tool", pretty funny

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=74250


----------



## pintodeluxe

I think I like traditional through dovetails over mitered dovetails. Wood does not want to be mitered. That is a basic rule of nature. On a blanket chest it may look fine, but on that narrow sample (as beautifully executed as it is) it interrupts the pattern of the dovetails.

I often try new techniques just to challenge myself so if this is something you want to try, by all means give it a go.


----------



## theoldfart

Andy it is perfectly executed. I do however agree with Pinto, it works on large pieces. I don't care for it on a skirt or dust seal application. Again, gutsy move on something new!


----------



## Pezking7p

I prefer the dovetails to either be through tails or completely hidden under the miter. Just my opinion.

Waldo, cherry was not a common furniture wood in the US until mid 20th century. I think there was so much walnut and oak and chestnut and pine that no one bothered to mess with cherry. Due to blotching and color changing it was probably seen as inferior. Now, with less and less walnut, and cherry being abundant and easy to grow, we have made a market for it. In my experience (which is extremely limited, please bear in mind) the blotching on cherry fades to almost nothing over a year or so as long as you don't stain it! Also, anything with BLO in it will turn the wood that old, old brown color that you see on old oak pieces and workbenches. Danish oil won't do it quite to that extent but it will turn the finish more deep brown than red as it ages. I personally like a bit of that aged brown look, rather than the deep red hues of naturally aged cherry, but ymmv.

Re: open/boring panels on my coffee table. I can understand that it's hard to know what I'm asking since so many of the design details are missing from my photos. I'll try to get them done today and snap a few more pics. Hopefully that will get a few more bites from you lot.

And duck, I'm not sure if you're trying to butter me up but I'm tickled that my blocky half-finished furniture reminds you of Japanese architecture, as that is the inspiration for my living room pieces!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Andy, tough call. Imo, the miters don't add a whole lot if they raise the difficulty a ton.

Earlier I was joking about not having the wood selection guys like Matt Wolfe and others have. I did alright smoothing the first two tabletop panels, but this one kicked my butt:










You can see the board no the left has a couple "cats faces." Those are not desirable for planing because the grain switches direction. As I've always done with my furniture, I just do the best I can with wood I have. I'm sure you all can relate.


----------



## bearkatwood

I think your doing great Red, it is turning out very nicely.
Look forward to seeing all you do with your time off.


----------



## Pezking7p

I guess there's always card scrapers, red! Get that thing hot.

So here are some pics of the coffee table with details. The dumb upper rails on the sides and back are what I'm looking at. I'm considering adding a separate pice of wood that is an arch that appears to support the rails. Also open to ideas such as relief carvings, inlay, etc. I just want to break the panels up and I'm looking to bounce some ideas around.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I don't mind the upper rails as is Pez….unless I'm missing something.

Bearkat- thanks. Homestretch now. I need to figure out a way to cut the ends of the tabletop panels even. Circ saw? Eeeek!

Also started a finish experiment. The blotching on cherry, caused by a preliminary coat of danish oil, never really bothered me. But I want to see what it looks like if I do a washcoat of shellac(sealcoat) first….as Andy suggested.


----------



## Pezking7p

Duly noted, red. Mrs pex pointed out that it will look a lot different with the top on it so I'm going to wait to do anything until after I have the top built, but I'm still open to suggestions.

I would think either a specialized crosscut sled built extra wide or with no back fence (I think they call it a panel sled). Or a Diablo ultimate cutoff blade in a circular saw along with a good straight edge.

I've never had good luck with my circular saw so my vote goes to the sled. But I have a really crappy circular saw and no good straight edges.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya bud. I realize my crosscut sled is 22", the bigger panels are 24". Doh, should have planned better.

I've actually never made a table with a leaf before (ain't skeered). But I think the priority will be installing the little pins that line up the leaf…and then make the cut. I've got a brand new diablo blade that should be up to the task. Maybe I should order a Festtool track saw…just for this task;-)

Pez, you're busting out all kinds of good stuff lately. We have very similar taste. I'm sure I'm not the only one who got the new Thos Moser catalog yesterday. Lots of inspiration in there.


----------



## jmartel

Just use it as an excuse to buy a track saw, Red. Go big or go home.


----------



## pintodeluxe

Red,
Good on you for smoothing those tops by hand. I recently took 15 panels to a commercial shop in my area to have them finish planed. They have a 50" combination planer and dual drum sander. It feels like cheating, but it is sooo nice to see my panels emerge from the planer smooth and flat with zero tearout.

Table leaves can be tricky, but alignment pins first is definitely the right approach.


----------



## Pezking7p

Thanks for the props, red. I got my catalogs last week sometime but I haven't looked at them yet (they ship me two catalogs for some reason).

Again, because I'm scared of my circular saw, in the past I have simply removed the back fence from a sled.

I would set the pins in the panels first, then drill holes for the pins in an auxiliary fence for the sled to line up the panels on the sled. Then just stick the pins into the match in holes in the fence and cut away. Guaranteed matched panel length and no risk of off-90 edge cut, or bowing the straight edge and burning the crap out of the cut (all of these have happened to me, lol. I suck at circular saws).

Pinto, I lust for a drum sander. But I want a really wide one. One day.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I hear ya pinto. I love my hand tools, but I'm not a purist either. There's a high-end cabinet shop just blocks from my house. I hit them up about making the panels, or letting me run my own through their huge drum sander…but the sales guy kept putting me off…. so I forgot about it. I've since met another woodworker with a big drum sander nearby. So, I may hit him up on another project.

Really, if a guy does a nice job milling and gluing, panels this size aren't bad. The first two were only about 20 min each to smooth. The last one took a good hour. My glueup wasn't as good, and the grain sucked. Didn't mind the work a bit, but I'm spoiled with very nice hand tools.

I was think the same thing about lining up the leaves prior to cut. When the table is done… I won't know what to think. I started this set 10 months ago! lol. The big move in the middle didn't help.


----------



## Pezking7p

Got a little work done on the end table that goes with the coffee table. I didn't really know how to join these pieces and get the shape I wanted so I did something that is probably unconventional and possibly downright wrong.

So I cut some square slots in the legs to seat the web frames in. Hogged out with the mortiser and then cleaned up with chisels and router plane. Went together pretty well, though there are a few gaps. Feels like it should be strong, but will it last?


----------



## theoldfart

The joint does not look sufficient but I have no idea how to improve it. Maybe a dwell through the joint? You'll have to consult the experts!


----------



## Pezking7p

I've been considering putting a screw through the bottom of each mortise. I think that would cinch it right up. There is also a framework that goes on top of the legs which is attached with mortises, so the web frame isn't the only structure. I think the screws would help though, unless there is a reason not to?


----------



## theoldfart

Sounds like it'll work. I'm trying to visualize where the screw would go. A pocket hole(gasp) underneath?


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## Pezking7p

I was thinking through the back of the mortise, no pocket hole required. Counter sink the screw so it doesn't interfere with the tenon.


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## theoldfart

Got it. Sounds workable. Probably drive someone nuts in a hundred years when they decide to restore it!


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## BigRedKnothead

I'm not visualizing the piece. Are there other side panels/parts that hold this thing together? If so, I don't see a problem with the web frames.


----------



## bobasaurus

Red, it seems like I never get a uniform grain direction piece of lumber. I think they only exist in myth. Thank god for chipbreakers, high angles, tight mouths, and scrapers. Or a ROS if I'm really stuck.


----------



## bearkatwood

I would think you would need something mechanical. In your mortise in the legs there could be room to make a mechanical M&T joint.









I like the strong look they have, nice grain too.


----------



## yuridichesky

This is my very first furniture project which is not for the shop use, and probably first post to this thread. So I'm asking for an indulgence here


----------



## bearkatwood

Very nice lines and a clean look. You never told us how comfy it was. I like that you got some new tools out of it. Great job Yuri!


----------



## yuridichesky

Thank you Brian!

In fact it was pretty comfortable to sit on. The seat is slightly curved in both directions, the back stretchers are slightly curved too, and it all together makes some difference that you can feel.


----------



## john2005

> Bearkat- thanks. Homestretch now. I need to figure out a way to cut the ends of the tabletop panels even. Circ saw? Eeeek!
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I just got did those countertop ends not long ago. 24" wide, 1 3/4' thick. I used a straight board for a "fence" and a spiral upcut bit in the router. Absolutely amazing finish on the end grain. I did have to take multiple passes though, but thats ok. Just took my time and made it nice. Yours could probably be done in one pass. Just my thoughts.

I dig the chair Yuri. It has a good look to it.


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## bearkatwood

It looked comfy!


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## yuridichesky

John, thanks a lot!

Brain, it did! But man, the chair is so heavy. Once you unfold it you don't want to bother and fold it back and store in the closet. But for transportation it's good to be able to make it [almost] flat.


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## bearkatwood

Flat chairs are boring 
I wonder what you could do to lighten it up a bit??


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## Waldo88

> Got a little work done on the end table that goes with the coffee table. I didn t really know how to join these pieces and get the shape I wanted so I did something that is probably unconventional and possibly downright wrong.
> 
> So I cut some square slots in the legs to seat the web frames in. Hogged out with the mortiser and then cleaned up with chisels and router plane. Went together pretty well, though there are a few gaps. Feels like it should be strong, but will it last?


I don't see why that wouldn't last. What sort of loading are you expecting on those coffee tables? If its not an issue of the miters opening up on the inserts (in which case spline the miters), then I fail to see an issue. Unless its going to double as a tug of war rope or diving platform.


----------



## yuridichesky

> Flat chairs are boring
> I wonder what you could do to lighten it up a bit??
> 
> - bearkatwood


Well, taking it scientifically I can test it and see what force is going to break it and then make some design corrections. This one was built around "when in doubt make it stout" motto, and I was in doubt a lot! 

In practice for the next project I'd go for bent lamination technique for the legs to make them strong and yet not that heavy.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Pez - if you have concerns you might want to try a decorative dowel thru each leg face. Over lap the dowels so they don't intersect. Even a 3/8" dowel should lock it in tight.


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## Pezking7p

Dang, yuri. I like the curve of those legs.

Re:funny web frame joints on my end table. Another option would be to drill and dowel after assembly. Then I can stay pure without any screws 

I know it's probably not a big deal but more and more I'm starting to think about what my furniture will be like in 20-30 years. It was hard to think that way 2 years ago.

Edit: hammerthumbed


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## Waldo88

I've got a coat of finish (homemade Danish Oil) on the loveseat. In the home stretch.










Depending on the angle and type of lighting, the contrast between the old and new boards is either near nonexistent, as in this photo, or rather extreme. But the wife said she likes the contrast even though I don't care for it.

Here's a closeup of the side, for a good look at what the old quartersawn cherry looks like. IMHO just gorgeous.










One more pic, just because its cool. You can also see the detail of the back slats, which are not dowels.


----------



## Waldo88

> Dang, yuri. I like the curve of those legs.
> 
> Re:funny web frame joints on my end table. Another option would be to drill and dowel after assembly. Then I can stay pure without any screws
> 
> I know it s probably not a big deal but more and more I m starting to think about what my furniture will be like in 20-30 years. It was hard to think that way 2 years ago.
> 
> Edit: hammerthumbed
> 
> - Pezking7p


Tables are loaded vertically, which as carried through the legs. Any side or racking load over a very small amount will slide the table.

You are basically assuming that the glue is just going to fall apart.


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## CL810

Finish is beautiful Waldo! Is DO formula secret or can you share?


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## Waldo88

1/3 BLO
1/3 Gloss Oil Based Poly Varnish
1/3 Mineral Spirits

Real basic, all stuff from home improvement stores. I used minwax poly (the stuff in the black can that is oil based).

I like this mix better than Watco. Seems to make a notably tougher finish. It seems that Watco has less of a varnish component.


----------



## putty

Nice Waldo!!

Is your finish recipe wipe on? How many coats?


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## Waldo88

Yeah it wipes on real nice. I'm going to use 3 coats for this application.


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## CaptainSkully

Hey folks,

I didn't know anywhere else to post this. What's up with all of recent blog posts about people posting their plan to build a Stickley piece, usually from one of Bob Lang's books like they're doing a homework assignment? Did I miss something? I'm a big Stickley fan. One of them referenced LJ Tooch in passing.


----------



## bearkatwood

Waldo, I like the last pic and the use of lighting in it. Nice piece. Turned out great.


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## CFrye

CaptainSkully, Tooch is a shop teacher. He may have his students posting blogs for class assignment?


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## Pezking7p

Waldo. Dang. That's all I have to say. I'm going to be drooling over that arm transition for a while. I love the tone from that finish. Might have to try that.


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## Brit

Waldo - Great job on your loveseat. Hope you'll post a photo after you have all three coats on there.


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## john2005

That is looking mighty inviting Waldo


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## derekcohen

Very nice Waldo. What are you using for the seat?

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## derekcohen

A little more on the Lingerie Chest.

The drawers are now complete (coplanar) save for the drawer handles .. which go on this weekend. And then time to start the top section.










Regards from Perth

Derek


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## bearkatwood

Very cool curves for the unmentionables 
I like the coloring too.
Wonderful grain on the drawer fronts
Nice piece.


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## Waldo88

> Very nice Waldo. What are you using for the seat?
> 
> Regards from Perth
> 
> Derek
> 
> - Derek Cohen


You can see the slots cut for the straps. I'm using the type with clips so I don't have to staple into the frame. As a "going the extra mile" touch I mortised a shallow depression for the straps to sit in.

On top of that is a box cushion for the seat and one for the back. I'm working on that right now. I'm using 3-1/2" foam for the seat, 3" for the back. I'm doing 1 big cushion for each so that its just as comfy to sit in the middle.

Upholstery is new to me so this step is going a bit slow. But that's ok. Being able to upholster dramatically opens up the range of possibility when it comes to furniture. One reason I picked this design is the simplicity of upholstery; start with the basics.


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## Waldo88

> A little more on the Lingerie Chest.
> 
> The drawers are now complete (coplanar) save for the drawer handles .. which go on this weekend. And then time to start the top section.
> 
> - Derek Cohen


Dang, that is really nice. Love the subtle curves.

What sort of handles are you using?


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## derekcohen

Thanks Waldo. The drawer fronts are curved (bowed) as well, but this is difficult to pick in the photo. The handles? Curved as well  That is for later.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## vikingcape

Wow Derek! That is one great looking chest there. Nice work. What kind of hardware are you putting on it?


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## DanKrager

That is a gorgeous chest of drawers, Derek.

DanK


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## DanKrager

That is a gorgeous chest of drawers, Derek. Is this an original design? I don't remember.

DanK


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## derekcohen

> That is a gorgeous chest of drawers, Derek. Is this an original design? I don t remember.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Thanks Dan. Yes, this is an original design.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## byerbyer

^Really sharp design, Derek. Coming together nicely!


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## theoldfart

So we've settled on a leg design and it's turning out pretty good


















Two legs are done and two to go.


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## theoldfart

So we've settled on a leg design and it's turning out pretty good


















Two legs are done and two to go.


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## rad457

So the third post for the last leg? LOL! Like the design.


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## theoldfart

Ok, four legs and three posts! I think the ghost in the machine made the second one BTW.










Compass plane well worth the effort to learn


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## Hammerthumb

Looking good there Kevin.

Derek - that chest is really stunning.


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## CL810

Beautiful work Kevin!


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## duckmilk

The table is coming along Red. Looks nice, good luck on the locating pins. That would make me nervous

Pez, I'm no help with any advice. After the top is on, maybe some oriental inspiration will occur to you.

Waldo, I really like how the loveseat came out.

Yuri, great design on the chair. I'll have to keep that design in mind for future use.

Nice details on the chest Derek. Looking forward to the finished piece.

Kevin, the curves came out super smooth and uniform. Now I wish for a compass plane even more. Or, maybe just pick up an old woodie and make one like Yuri's


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## bearkatwood

I liked the legs by themselves, now it is way better Oldfart. Nice work.


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## vikingcape

Kevin, I love how you have curved those legs. It really gives it an interesting look


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## Nugs

I finished the Queen Anne Secretary Desk for my wife about a month ago. I'm more of a lurker so haven't got around to posting it, here it is in our spare bedroom. Over the past month we've both used it a few times for different things and it does what a desk should do!



















Currently working on a nightstand which I hope to finish up this weekend. Then I want to do a Maloof Low Back Chair. I can't really justify spending money on the templates, so I am going to use the Felder Bandsaw Chair template and modify them slightly to have Maloof joints. Anyone have any wise words for a guy planning out his first maloof-like piece?


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## byerbyer

Great job on the desk Nugs. Very sharp.


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## Mean_Dean

Beautiful secretary, Nugs-well done!


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## DanKrager

Add my kudos on that secretary. Man that's cool. The traditional dark ones are so yesterday…this sparkles with life and vitality. Well done.

DanK


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## Hammerthumb

I agree with Dan. To many are made trying to mimic something made 100 years ago. This is how the piece would look when it was made.


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## duckmilk

Nice secretary desk Nugs. Lurker? 63 posts in 1099 days, yep, I think you qualify ;^)

You don't have any pics of the build?


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## vikingcape

Wow Nugs! That thing is beautiful! In a hundred years when I am a better woodworker, I am going to give it a go.


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## BigRedKnothead

After years of debate, I made the Festool plunge (Domino XL). Ya, my hand tool brethren will scoff….but I'm gonna knock all kinds of furniture out with this bugger.


----------



## CL810

I've only used one a couple of times Red, but it is one fine, substantial tool. For you it was a smart buy.


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## bearkatwood

I will see your domino xl and raise you a multi router 
Ships next week. yeah!


----------



## TraylorPark

Congrats on the new toys, I mean tools there fellas. Color me green with envy, I don't know what color a multi router is, Brian, but in my head it's green


----------



## vikingcape

I just bought some bamboo skewers to glue into boards that I will drill into boards with my old drill…alright I'll leave now.

Cool tool Red.

Multi Router???? That just ain't fair Brian


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Kinda funny Brian, the Festool salesman I spoke with owned nearly everything Festool…..except the Domino. He preferred a multi-router. Like Andy said, I think this will be a very productive tool for what I do. I figure about 15 hours less labor on a set of chairs. I'll take it.

If it weren't for the proceeds from my furniture commission, I'd never justify such purchases.


----------



## bearkatwood

and if I wasn't such a reckless spender I could never justify my purchase. 
15 hours is a lot of labor to be saved by buying one tool, nice job Red.
What is your plan for your next project that might take advantage of said tool?


----------



## bearkatwood

My precious, it is my precious.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Brian, I've already started a batch of cherry nightstands. Those will be good to get familiar with the domino. After that, I have a couple more clients who would like a dining set.


----------



## bearkatwood

Nice, dining sets are fun. Look forward to it. Will they be cherry as well. Seems like you have a good supply of it.


----------



## derekcohen

It was was nice to work at a relaxed pace this weekend, since the goal was to install the drawer handles, wax the drawers (Renaissance), and complete the rear of the carcase. All nice and easy.

The panel for the rear is 1/4" thick Makore, as are the carcase frame-and-panel sides. I made the panel at the start of the build. It had begun as one of the side panels, but it lacked any figure, and consequently I set it aside for the rear of the carcase. This was finished inside with wax and outside with Livos Universal Wood Oil (an Aussie product), which was used on the all the other parts of the carcase.

The panel is secured with nails into the frame. The panel can move laterally via widened (drilled) nail holes. There is a coved attached moulding that tidies up the fitting. The cove matches the cove that is part of the frame-and-panel sides (which were shaped into the frames).










I got to use my restored mitrebox 



















Before the rear could be done, the handles needed to be attached to the drawers. The handles had been a major headache for a long time. I knew what I wanted but could not find ready-made versions. I hunted everywhere like an obsessed dervish!. I was about to build them in Jarrah (my wife's choice to go with the Jarrah drawer fronts) when I found them about 6 weeks ago on eBay! According to the advert they are "antique bronze".

After building a template, and carefully marking, triple checking measurements, I drilled the holes and screwed them on …




























Here is a side. The bow is very subtle, softening the profile …










Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## CL810

Beautiful!


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## BigRedKnothead

Sharp piece Derek.

Brian, not sure about the wood type for the upcoming sets, but I'm fairly certain cherry and/or walnut will be involved.

Took my time installing the little alignment pins for the table top leaf. Seems like such an insiginficant part, but….ya really don't want to screw that part up.


----------



## TraylorPark

So I had to switch gears from the desk to a tv cabinet for my Parents. I was at their place around valentines day and we discussed what they wanted and I said I could get to it probably in April. So they bought a new tv the next week and ever since then all I hear from my Dad is "when can I put my new tv up?" We are going to visit in two weeks so I'm having to do glue ups in the basement since mother nature hasn't made up her mind here in Ohio and we got 6 inches of snow this weekend along with temps in the 20's. It's a pretty simple design with a couple of raised panel doors, open shelf and back support piece to mount a full motion tv arm. I'm using red oak to match their existing pieces and settled on a slightly brown stain (american chestnut) and satin finish. I've got all the panels glued and joints flattened ready for assembly. So I should have enough time to glue and finish before we go down there in a couple weeks. Big shout out to all the scraper preachers here. I would have never thought of using one before seeing all the praise on this thread, but man has is saved me a ton of sanding on these panels. BTW I'm using a vintage Stanley No 80 and works great after a lot of tinkering and sharpening the blade a couple of times.

Anywho thanks for indulging my ramblings.


----------



## TraylorPark

By the way. Derek, that chest looks amazing.


----------



## jmartel

Really like the design, Derek. Is it getting a top? Looks like a lighter secondary wood inset below the top rails in one of the photos.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

We're always learning from each other. Awhile back Andy mentioned he always used a thinned coat of Zinnser sealcoat (dewaxed shellac) on cherry before other finishes, to prevent blotching.

Here's a curly cherry test board. Tough to show in a pic but….










The left has a thin coat of sealcoat prior to danish oil and poly. In person the left looks much better. Less murky and the curls…just look cooler. Lesson learned. Thanks Andy.


----------



## bobasaurus

Nugs and Derek, amazing work there.

One of my dad's favorite phrases is "grasping defeat from the jaws of victory." Well, it happened to me this morning. I had applied the final coat of finish to my table legs the night before, so I wanted to examine them for flaws this morning. The leg was in two big parallel clamps, so I thought it safe to tilt the clamps to get some raking light across the surface. Then BAM, it slipped out of the clamps somehow and smacked into the other leg before smacking again into a different clamp. Two huge dents on one leg, one huge dent on the other. Damn it all.

So I sanded the finish mostly off the dented areas, dabbed on some water, and used a heat gun to pop them out. I got all but one completely popped back, and the final one is close enough. To avoid a different sheen on the sanded sections, I did a thin coat of shellac on the dents then sanded off the excess. I applied another coat earlier today and it looks to have hid the problem areas without a lot of careful inspection. Missed a few areas on the coat unfortunately, so I'm stuck doing yet another coat later. 6 coats should be enough for arm-r-seal  .


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Crappers Allen. I'm a fan of using those felt chair leg sliders on my clamp pads.

Po' boy track saw;-)









Feels a little crazy trimming a tabletop with a skilsaw, but it works. Well, with a nice new blade.


----------



## derekcohen

> Really like the design, Derek. Is it getting a top? Looks like a lighter secondary wood inset below the top rails in one of the photos.
> 
> - jmartel


Yes .. I am about to begin on the top section. The chest needs a crown moulding. This will hide a lid. Raising the lid will reveal a mirror on the underside, plus a recess to place jewellery or cosmetics. The recess will be leather lined.

Then there are jewellery trays to fit (also leather lined). This will go in the top drawer ..










All the drawers have good extension, held horizontal by the last 1 1/2" -2".

Until the top is done …

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## widdle

Red's just a framer hack….Pull the sticker off that will ya..

That's a great chest Derek…Hard to tell the radius's on the camera. What did you end up doing to create those fronts ? Did you end just scribing each one individualy and nibble away with planes ?


----------



## bearkatwood

Allen, I think your dad got that saying from watching the Denver Broncos 

Yeah Red, take the sticker off. What do you do to keep from fraying the edge? Who am I kidding, you could probably hit it with an axe and it would just fall off on the line. You have blessed hands my friend. I was talking to my wife about that yesterday. A skill is a blessing to be cherished and developed. There are people that could train for years in art and not be able to draw mickey mouse, then there are people who can just pick up a pencil and draw the mona lisa. Be thankful for your gift and nurture it. If you profit from you blessing, be thankful, don't ever get a big head (not a pun on bigred)  and remember it is a gift that can be taken away at any time. People that have big egos because of their ability's don't realize it doesn't come from them. At least that is how I feel about my ability, I think it is a huge blessing and I am extremely thankful and every day I walk into the shop and test to see if it is still there. So far, so good 
At least your using a real woodworkers saw, not some mamby pamby little dewalt special. Skil worm gear baby! yeah!


----------



## summerfi

^ +1


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Yeah Red, take the sticker off. What do you do to keep from fraying the edge?
> - bearkatwood


Easy, old carpenters trick: leave the sticker on the brand new Freud blade. Watch and learn boys….LOL.

I appreciate the pat on the back Brian, and I feel the same way about your talent and work. Your comments remind me of the words of my favorite Basketball coach:


----------



## bearkatwood

Nice.


----------



## Hammerthumb

My favorite bball coach also Red. Started watching UCLA around 1965. Never missed a televised game while Wooden was the coach. Here is another:

"If you're not making mistakes, then you're not doing anything. I'm positive that a doer makes mistakes."


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Ha! I just quoted that one at work last people. I goofed….and got into a little trouble. The rest of the guys sittin on their bums are much less likely to make mistakes


----------



## Hammerthumb

That's ok Red. Do'ers sometimes must take their lumps. I do at work also.

So, speaking of doing:

Turned some feet










Added some brass










Added them to the legs with some more brass



















And turned the leg down at the end of the brass. This is where the taper will start going up the legs.










This will be for a card table I'm making for my wife.


----------



## MapleJack1

The first Monkeypod Rocking Chair I had ever seen. This was a customer of ours who asked us to make this for him. It came out pretty sweet. I hope you enjoy the share!

















!


----------



## Mean_Dean

Anybody like chairs?


----------



## bearkatwood

Sweet seats guys! Monkeypod? WOW. Making me want to start on another rocker, haven't done one in a while.
Mean_Dean, I like your scroll feet on the chair. I looked trying to find it's great grandpa and I think this is about as close as I could find.









I really liked how you had a recurring scrool theme on the headrest with multiple fountains the scroll in the feet and arms. Here is a close pic to the backrest.








Bottom center. 
Beautiful work on both chairs. Milk paint on the chippendale??


----------



## Mean_Dean

Thanks, Brian, but it's actually not my project…......!

This is a project by Dennis Zongker, who builds some absolutely beautiful furniture. These chairs go with a dining table of his that is a masterpiece. You should post your response in his project comments-I'm sure he'd appreciate the great feedback!

With all the talk about chairs on this forum, I thought you guys would like to drool a little!


----------



## bearkatwood

> "If you re not making mistakes, then you re not doing anything. I m positive that a doer makes mistakes."
> 
> - Hammerthumb


My mistakes keep me warm in the winter.
I am a firm believer that you learn nothing by winning, so I try to make as many mistakes as I can  Ha.

I hope I have learned a few things as many doors as have slammed on me trying to make this woodworking thing work. It's workin' now! finally.

Luck favors the persistent? Sometimes I feel like I am trying to beat my head against a brick wall to get thru when there is a doorway right next to me.

Some people are just plagued to do it their own way


----------



## jmartel

Brian, that looks like a good reference book on chair designs. What is it?


----------



## bearkatwood

It is The Gentleman & Cabinet Maker's Director by Thomas Chippendale.


----------



## DanG61270

First question to this forum, can someone give me some tips on smooth planning QS White Oak. What plane you use, any secrets beyond a sharp blade. Currently using Stanley and Millers Falls older planes. They do well on most projects, but failing me on this oak.

Thanks


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Guys are dropping bombs with the fine chairs. Sort of reminds me of the "Talent" topic Brian brought up. I know Bob Summerfield thinks people either have it, or they don't. And that's always something I thought would be interesting to discuss with Bob. I lean a little more toward the theory that many of us can get there….if we just keep working at. 
Furthermore, I hate for any of us to quit or be discouraged just because we think we may not be as talented as the next guy.

Either way, splitting hairs. Keep making stuff, do the best you can do….and you're alright by me.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> First question to this forum, can someone give me some tips on smooth planning QS White Oak. What plane you use, any secrets beyond a sharp blade. Currently using Stanley and Millers Falls older planes. They do well on most projects, but failing me on this oak.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> - DanG61270


Dan- I actually snubbed smoothing planes for longer than I might have….because I was trying to learn on white oak! You're not alone. Oak is not the friendliest species for hand tools, and there's so many things that can go wrong. Couple things:

- You have to be very good at reading the grain (look at the direction of the pores). If the grain switches on the board, you have to switch. 
- Uber sharp, and resort to a card scraper where the grain is funky. 
- Last… tool snobbery. I'm told that there are folks who can super tune a vintage plane to work as well as premium (Veritas, LN, Clifton…) but I'm not one of them. The most success I had on difficult woods was after I sprung for a Lie-Nielsen. The thicker blades etc., really make a difference.

Lots of other good articles out there, like this:
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/taming_handplane_tear-out


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## bearkatwood

Agreed, I think anyone can be a woodworker and be pretty darn good, but it takes patience. Nothing in woodworking is difficult, only a series of steps that are all based on the fundamental skills at the root of it. If you are patient enough and have those skills down, you can make a bombay desk…. O.K. well maybe not a bombay, but you can go far. 
Like the man said, keep making stuff!!


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## DanG61270

Thanks for quick reply. I really like to wider blade of a 4 1/2 smoother. In your experiences would I be happier with a bevel down Lee Nielsen, or a bevel up Lee Nielsen or Veritas Smoother

I jus can't decide, don't want to buy both, kinda cheap that way.


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## jmartel

Dan, a lot is dependent on your chipbreaker settings as well. Light cuts and set the chipbreaker as close as you can


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## summerfi

> I know Bob Summerfield thinks people either have it, or they don t. And that s always something I thought would be interesting to discuss with Bob. I lean a little more toward the theory that many of us can get there….if we just keep working at.
> - BigRedKnothead


Well, that's not quite what I think, but it's in the neighborhood. Woodworking is no different than any other job or hobby. Being naturally gifted in that one area will take you a long way towards success. But if you're not particularly gifted, most people can still achieve satisfactory success by study and lots of practice. We've all seen athletes that were so gifted they hardly had to try, and we've seen guys who had to work their butts off to barely make the grade. When I was a kid I took violin lessons. I got to be pretty good after a few years, and my mom had grandiose dreams of me becoming a big-time concert violinist. That wasn't going to happen though. For me it was work, and after a few years it wasn't fun any more. It broke mom's heart, but it was the right thing for me. As I've said before, my dad was a musical instrument maker and the best craftsman I've ever known. He had a natural God given talent. He was so good that he attracted a constant stream of men who came to his shop wanting to learn to do the same thing. A few, very few, also had great talent and went on to make beautiful instruments, some on a commercial basis. Most had the desire, but lacked the talent. You can develop skill, to a certain degree, by gaining knowledge and practicing hard, but you can't develop talent. That's what you either have or you don't. Some of these men went on to build OK instruments, but they eventually faded from the scene. The amount of work these men had to put into it to be good was just too much, and they eventually gave up or lost interest. Then there were the men who came and wanted to build an instrument, but they didn't want to put work into it. They thought it should come easy. Dad didn't have much patience for this kind of man, and they never came back.

Then there is another whole category of aspiring woodworkers. These guys may not have great talent, but they're willing to work at it to an extent . It's fine with them if they never turn out a masterpiece. Their objective is simply to have fun at their hobby. To work on a project that gives them stress relief and makes them feel good. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that approach to woodworking. In fact there is NO wrong approach to woodworking except one that is unsafe, or one that may be dishonest to a customer, or one that takes too much time away from higher priorities like family.


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## BigRedKnothead

^Good stuff Bob. Thanks for sharing.

Leaves make a dining table….so much more complicated.


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## bearkatwood

Bob, I don't know how to think about your comment. I have met a very few of the men you speak of that were like your father. Those that had talent dripping from their fingers. I have seen the ones hungry for it, but lacking in talent or will to do the work. I have never been dishonest with a customer, but I have been guilty of being a bit unsafe and I know that my "healthy obsession" as I call it, has only been green broke in it's want to consume my time. It is a balancing act to have it as a job and a hobby and not have it affect family time. I try to make sure family always wins, but it takes self control to not put a cot in the shop 
I know I have developed skill over the years and have the desire, but now after reading your comment I wonder where I lay on the talent scale. I daydreamed about being that old guy I met years ago, walking me through his woodshop, showing me the recently crafted Chippendale reproduction and the freshly made china cabinet. He must have been 80, but had the childish enthusiasm in describing his work of a fourth grader showing off his prize drawing.
I have achieved satisfactory success, but I have studied my arse off and I have put in the time. They say it's 10,000 hours to mastery, well I passed that a while back and I know I can make stuff, but you have me thinking. You have a sound prose and it makes me wonder because I know how headstrong I can be. Is it talent or just a lot of hard work? Either way I am happy with where I am in the craft, though not complacent in learning. I value the opinions of those that have been around the craft longer and have experience with truly talented woodworkers. I would love to follow you around the shop some day. 
Take care and have a great day Bob.
Thanks.


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## vikingcape

Bob that is interesting. And Brian I like your description of the "childish enthusiasm"

I work and live as a professional musician and music teacher. I have spent countless hours on technique and sound of my instrument (classical guitar) and I still get charged up thinking about playing and talking about playing. We always say in the music world that there is no "talent" you have just put in the time to develop the skills and have learned from your teachers, talent is something for people who don't know how many hours you have spent in a practice room doing scales, arpeggios, etudes, and other mastering techniques.

Music is something I live and breathe, what makes me sad is when I meet other professional musicians and they don't want to talk about music. It is disheartening to a huge degree.

If I meet a woodworker who doesn't want to breathe without woodworking and it's only a job I wonder if they love what they do or just do it. I think as in music, it shows in their work.

It's clear all of you guys love what you do. It offers inspiration to the lesser of us here on lumberjocks (me)


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## bearkatwood

Yes woodworking is something I live and breath with, well maybe not breath too well. I am always coughing up that dust  would love to hear your music. Thanks


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## CB_Cohick

Good discussion going on. I have heard the 10K hour theory before, and am not sold on it. I think ten thousand hours will get you to competency in any particular area you may be interested in. However, mastery or inspired mastery is another thing entirely. Here's the deal, not everyone can be a master, and it is a special circumstance when it happens. Aspiring to improve is great, and is certainly something anyone can do. There is lots of room for skilled craftsmen, and being such is a very fine and admirable thing. Personally, I have always been a dilettante. I can do a little bit of everything, but am a master of nothing. I am quite happy to pursue mastery, and comfortable with the idea that it is something I will not likely attain. I will turn out some nice things along that path. They just won't end up in a museum someday.


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## JayT

I tend to side with Bob on this one. Talent is God-given, skills are learned, hard work and practice are necessary to mold and improve either one. When all are combined in large proportions, you end up with someone at the pinnacle of their profession-whether a woodworker, athlete, mathematician, artist or whatever.

Take two people and let them spend the exact same amount of time practicing the same exact thing and you will get two different results. The one with more talent in that area will make greater strides in the same amount of time. With some things, time and practice can become the balancing factor-i.e. the less talented person practicing more may be able to achieve a similar result as a more talented person practicing less. In other areas, there is such a lack of talent that no amount of practice will ever matter.



> We always say in the music world that there is no "talent" you have just put in the time to develop the skills and have learned from your teachers, talent is something for people who don t know how many hours you have spent in a practice room doing scales, arpeggios, etudes, and other mastering techniques.
> 
> - Kaleb the Swede


I'm a former music teacher and am going to disagree to a certain extent. That idea definitely applies when talking about people of similar intrinsic abilities. There are people out there, however, who have such a poor sense of pitch or rhythm that no amount of work will ever make them even competent. To a certain extent, I'm one of them. I have a fantastic sense of rhythm, but have to work hard with pitch. It was depressing to sit in band in college next to some extremely talented trumpet players and no matter how much I practiced, was never able to reach their level. That was a result of the level of talent.

Meanwhile, at the same college, I was taking a junior level math class as a freshman and was bored out of my skull because it was too easy. (Probably related to the rhythm thing, I internalize it more as a mathematical concept rather than a musical one) I was majoring in music, but my strongest talents were in another area. I fought that for a long time-falsely believing that if something came easy, it wasn't worth pursuing and there was more to be gained by working hard at something else. Easy to say "what if", but I can't help but wonder what would have happened if I had put the same amount of time and effort into math and physics, where there was more innate talent, that I did into practicing music.

It's impossible to see the world through someone else's eyes-all we have is our own experiences. Because of this, it is extremely difficult for anyone to understand how someone else can struggle with things we take to easily. If we can do it, surely anyone else can, right?


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## summerfi

> Is it talent or just a lot of hard work? Either way I am happy with where I am in the craft, though not complacent in learning.
> - bearkatwood


Brian, having seen your work, I can definitely say you have talent. There is some sort of connection, I believe, between having talent and being artistic. Your designs are artistic and bring joy to yourself and to others. Yes, you have talent. But most importantly you are happy, and that is success in itself.

Jay said it well, but I'll reiterate. Talent lies in a bell shaped curve. Most people are near the middle of the curve. They can achieve satisfactory results (i.e. make nice stuff) through study and hard work/practice/time. To some extent it's a mechanical kind of process. The few people on one end of the curve have mega talent. They have to study and practice, but much less because it comes quickly and naturally to them. Their approach is more artistic than mechanical. Then there's the people on the other end of the curve who just don't get it no matter how much they try. Most of these people will never even attempt woodworking because they don't innately have that leaning or interest, and if they made an attempt it would be so difficult for them that they would quickly give up. Most of us, including myself, no doubt lie somewhere along that bell shaped curve other than on the far ends or exact middle. In other words, we're a mixture of talent and study/practice.


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## WillliamMSP

> Brian, having seen your work, I can definitely say you have talent. There is some sort of connection, I believe, between having talent and being artistic. Your designs are artistic and bring joy to yourself and to others.
> 
> - summerfi


This is where I think that the differentiation is - I think that, to a certain extent, you can train your sense of aesthetic, but not nearly to the same degree that you can train your hands; I see plenty of pieces that were made by competent hands, but show little inspiration.


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## vikingcape

Good points JayT. But if that person didn't practice a whole summer and you did, I think that the gap would start to close. Yes there are things such as embouchure and how the breathing of a wind instrument works, but the hours spent will definitely count for something.

That is definitely true Bill, perspective and voice take time to come into. People were always confused that Sam Maloof put just plainly "Woodworker" on his business cards, instead of designer or artist. But he developed his voice and inspiration was pulled from many different places to make his level of artistry.

It's the old question of function and art? When is it which. That's the perspective of the consumer. We have to make money and have a voice Very difficult question


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## jmartel

Personally, I think anyone can be trained enough to build basically anything in woodworking with enough time. Where the talent comes into play is in the eye for design.


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## theoldfart

some non cerebral posting and proof that even a monkey can be taught woodworking!

More incremental progress









Still some smoothing to be done but just get a visual idea









Now playing with overhang


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## JayT

> Good points JayT. But if that person didn t practice a whole summer and you did, I think that the gap would start to close.
> 
> - Kaleb the Swede


Start to close, sure, but only start. I actually went through this scenario. When starting college, Bill was first chair. He had been a part time student for a while. Worked full time at a low paying job, played bass in a bar band on the weekends and took a college class or two when he had the time and money. By my sophomore year, he had not played a trumpet outside of band or jazz band class for almost three years, while I was practicing three hours a day, every day, even in summer. I still couldn't touch what he could do. His musical talent was off the charts-like professional level off the charts. He had some personal demons, however that didn't allow for them to flourish.

Our second chair shared a few stories about when Bill was actually practicing regularly that were hard to believe until you go to know him a bit more. The year before I started, the college had another supremely talented trumpet player that transferred to Northern Colorado. If you are into jazz at all, you know that UNC has one of the top jazz programs in the nation. As a junior, Sloan made first chair in Lab Band 2. He was the only undergraduate trumpet player in either of top two jazz bands that year. As good as he was, Sloan still sat second chair to Bill for two years.

Bill's level of talent was such that it was like giving him a 95 meter head start in a 100 meter dash when compared to my abilities. No matter how slow he ran those last five, there was no way for me to ever run the full race faster.

The hours spent improved my level greatly, not denying that. It's just that the base level of talent was too disparate to overcome-Bob's bell curve example. I muddled along with above average basic abilities, but still well within a standard deviation or two of the mean. Bill was in the top .01%


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## JayT

Back on topic.

That table is looking great, O Thou Ancient Flatulence. I am going to steal that leg design for something in the future. Not sure what, but it's too cool not to use at some point.


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## summerfi

OK Kevin, tell us where you get those monkeys trained to do woodworking. I could use a few in my shop. ;-)


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## theoldfart

Bob, the only monkey success I've had so far has been the one I see in the mirror each morning! 

I am, by the way, willing to travel to Montana to assist those in need.


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## summerfi

You're welcome any time, bud.


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## BigRedKnothead

I don't care with duh monkey say…... dats a sweet table design.

Man, we have some good talks on here


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## Waldo88

> Personally, I think anyone can be trained enough to build basically anything in woodworking with enough time. Where the talent comes into play is in the eye for design.
> 
> - jmartel


Design is a learned skill as well though.

Save for the few true masterpieces, all designs are derivative.

Its not as methodical or mechanical as the construction process, but still spending lots of time studying and critiquing the design of pieces will take you far.

For example, I can't even count how many hours I've spent on the leg designs of credenzas/sideboards, studying how they were put together and proportion. Some pieces I used to like I don't anymore, there is just something wrong that just bothers my eye, like the legs too wide or too tall.


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## bearkatwood

> - theoldfart


Shazam man! you nailed it.


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## theoldfart

Red, Brian thanks.

I'm feeling a great need for a few cabinet maker rasps. Either Ariou or Liogers( probably misspelled both names) I have a Nicholson 49 but it's too course for finish work.


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## bearkatwood

I wish I could afford a set of Ariou rasps, but they are way above my pay grade, so I will settle for thrift store finds.  The table looks great!! Now about those trained monkeys??


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## theoldfart

Monkeys are busy repairing a box for a friend. Then they are going to glue up a top for the night stand. Playing with edge bevels and I'll have a few questions later.


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## theoldfart

Tinkering with edge bevel for the top, just a quick and dirty pine prototype


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## JayT

I like the look of that under bevel, Kevin. It works well with the supports for the top.


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## DanKrager

^+1. I would experiment with a slight cove on the bevel to reflect the curve in the leg. This is going to be a fine looking table IMHO, Kev.
DanK


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## DanKrager

^+1. I would experiment with a slight cove in the bevel to reflect the curve in the leg. This is going to be a fine looking table IMHO, Kev.
DanK


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## putty

I like the bevel too.

How would one make a cove on the bevel Dan?


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## theoldfart

Compass plane and I LIKE the idea, thanks Dan!


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## byerbyer

Nice looking table Kev!


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## CL810

Looookin' good Kevin! +1 to DK's suggestion.


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## theoldfart

Byer and Andy thanks. we will unveil the top edge this weekend, stay tuned!


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## DanKrager

I was thinking a concave bevel, as in cove, not made with a compass plane. It would be made with a "round" from a 45 or 55. Now, a curved edge bevel done with a compass plane is a whole 'nother matter and it could be really cool too. If you want a serious challenge, do both…. 

DanK


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## Iguana

+1 on a small cove on that underbevel. Gentle, so as to hint into the curve on the leg.

I don't think a traditional round (or iron for a 45) would come in a size large enough - in other words, it would put too much of a curve. Maybe something like a plane a cooper would use for curving the inside of staves. Same idea as a round, but larger radius on the iron.

Edit: could also cove that on a tablesaw.


----------



## jmartel

OF, do you have a pigtailed router (electric)? They make router bits with the curved cove profile that's being talked about. They aren't cheap though. You could do it by hand with some rounds and a rabbeting plane as well.

But definitely +1 on the cove instead of a bevel. Would go better with the legs.


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## rad457

I see a 5 to 10 degree bevel and similar radius on the legs for the sides of the table top?


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## TraylorPark

Did a dry fit of the TV cabinet last night. Not looking too bad. Some minor adjustments on a few joints and time for glue. Still aiming for delivery next Saturday, so let hope for some warmer days for finish to dry.


----------



## Waldo88

I've got one of the cushions done for the loveseat I'm working on, halfway done with the second (doing 2 total).

Last weekend we did some browsing at Room and Board, that helped me make up my mind about the final finish. I had been toying with the idea of spraying a shellac over the danish oil finish I put on it, but after seeing many pieces (incl similar style sofas/chairs) with an oil and wax finish, I decided to go that route. My Danish Oil is much tougher than a basic oil finish anyway, after 3 coats its almost like a very thin (+in the wood) poly coat; it is much, much tougher than raw wood and has some sheen (albeit limited).

I have a dilemma with the wax; I've only ever waxed light things (maple/birch) and dark things (walnut). The cherry I used is quite dark for cherry, but it is still cherry and lighter than walnut. I currently have 2 types; a homemade beeswax polish that is the color of beeswax, and black Briwax. Which would be better on Cherry, or should I go get something else. I don't think much will get in the wood due to the DO, maybe it doesn't really matter.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Kevin - if you are brave, that cove can be done on the tablesaw. I have done many cove moldings, but have never tried it with a whole top. I don't think that top is too large to do it though.

Waldo - I like beeswax but I add some other wax that contains carnuba as it makes it harder.


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## DanKrager

The hardest part of wax is that sometimes it dries white in the pores. Easily solved, but still. Perhaps if the wax were colored first…

DanK


----------



## john2005

> - theoldfart


Hot! Real hot. I dig it, monkey or not.


----------



## CL810

I bought Lee Valley's premium hollow mortise chisel a while back and finally gave it a workout today. It's really a huge improvement over the standard chisels that come with mortisers. Results right out of the box:


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## Hammerthumb

That's interesting Andy. I'll have to try a set. I think I have the same mortiser.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Basic shape. Details next.


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## JayT

Really nice, Paul. That's going to be a nice table from early indications.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Atta boy Paul.

Tabletop mounted, Osborne leaf slides installed. Finishing begun. I can't believe its almost done. 









I heart the pegged tenon.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Look'n good, Big Red One!


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## CL810

Can't wait to see more of the table Paul.

I agree Red, pegged tenons are special. I'm guessing you and your customer worked out the faulty memories?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Ya Andy, I was able to scroll way back in messages to find out how much the deposit was. Just a couple more coats of poly, then we gotta figure out how to get this set to Colorado. Might wait til my vacation in June.

Should look pretty sharp once the cherry darkens a bit.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Looks sharp Red!


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## bobasaurus

Looks great, Red. The slides are neat.

Glued up the base of the table today. Here are the parts laid out:


----------



## Waldo88

Yay, done with the loveseat I've been working on.




























I opted to use the black briwax I had. Happy with how it turned out.

Wish I would have used softer foam for the rear cushion (I used medium foam), but its a minor detail, its very comfortable to sit on.


----------



## jmartel

That looks fantastic, Waldo.


----------



## Wally331

Fantastic stuff going on here as always!

I've got a few pictures of a tall corner cupboard I've been working on. The sash and moulding are all done by hand with planes I made. Still need to make the bottom doors and attach the crown moulding I made.

Looking for any suggestions on a finish! Not quite sure if I want a light stain or just a clear coat. I really like the results of arm-a-seal and that is the current plan.


----------



## bobasaurus

Waldo, that looks great. Shame they don't make clear cushions to showcase your woodworking.

Wally, impressive that you made your own molding planes and molding. Looks like lots of tricky angles in that thing.


----------



## bearkatwood

Waldo, very retro. Love it, great job.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Very nice work guys.

My wife would like that Corner cabinet Wally.

Not my style Waldo, but very well executed. How hard was it to learn the upholstery part?

Allen, please refresh my memory on that table. That's some beautiful Walnut.


----------



## Waldo88

> Not my style Waldo, but very well executed. How hard was it to learn the upholstery part?


It wasn't too bad.

It didn't take but a few minutes to figure out how run the sewing machine. Though I ran into a couple issues throughout that took some time to solve (whereas with experience it would have been seconds), when the bobbin was threaded wrong and when the upper thread fell out of one of the guides (I think where it gets tension from).

I probably made life harder by using a geometric pattern like this (though it was easier to cut); with a solid I could just ignore the pattern.

The fabric also made life harder by fraying real easy. Made it tougher to accurately line up the edges.

I was about a quarter of the way done before I figured out how to properly use the zipper foot for piping. The tutorials I was looking at used a foot specially designed for piping; I had the needle in the wrong position which made it extra hard to make joints tight against the piping.

Along the same lines, I had to buck conventional wisdom (work from the center out when upholserting), I had a lot of pattern drift that I kept fighting until I figured out that it didn't drift when upside down; then I just pinned the whole length of the joint and ran it.

Along the same lines, only one side of a joint can be tight against the piping (partially because of the foot I was using, but also the geometry of a round object on a flat plate, only the top is tight against the round object), so each had to be stitched on both sides, again, something I figured out as I went.

Were I to do it again I would hand baste (hand sewing for the purposes of alignment) instead of pinning joints.

I overpinned at first anyway, not trusting the seam allowance to do its thing. Get the measurements right from the get go and you're good to go.


----------



## Hammerthumb

When I was young, I used to watch my sister sew. She made all of her own clothes since she was about 12 years old. I guess if I had been smart, I would have paid more attention. I have wanted to give upholstery a try, but would have to get instructions from my wife at this point. That usually does not work too well. ;-)


----------



## vikingcape

Waldo that is one nice looking love seat.


----------



## Waldo88

> When I was young, I used to watch my sister sew. She made all of her own clothes since she was about 12 years old. I guess if I had been smart, I would have paid more attention. I have wanted to give upholstery a try, but would have to get instructions from my wife at this point. That usually does not work too well. ;-)
> 
> - Hammerthumb


Eh just google it. There are tons of tutorials out there.


----------



## byerbyer

Nice work all around fellas. Keep it up!
I was finally able to sneak in a little shop time & get back at it on my dresser/changing table progress. I cut the dadoes with a hand saw, chisel, & router plane. Its a technique is laid out in " The Anarachist's Design Book" and I found it worked quite well.

Set a batten to your knife line & cut down to depth. 









Before moving the batten use your part to mark the width of the dado, move your batten (allowing for the set of the saw) & repeat. Hog out the waste with chisel & clean up with a router plane…









We had some company stop to the see the little one so I had to stop after I had the front blades shot & planed to thickness.









Hoping to get ready for another glue up by next weekend!


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## theoldfart

First iteration of the top









I need to extend the curve to the ends and lessen it, I really don't like the thin edge.

Byer, I took a class with the Schwarz and that's how we did our dadoes, also worked for the tenon on my bench.


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## Hammerthumb

I like it Kevin!


----------



## bearkatwood

I think that curve adds symmetry.


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## johnstoneb

I have to agree with you Kevin too much curve and too thin an edge. Can you match the radius of the leg with the top, or possibly even a larger radius?


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, I used the leg template with a spacer but still too much curve so I'm making two new templates, one for the long edge and one for the short. I want them to meet at the corners.


----------



## Nugs

Finished up a nightstand for my wife's side of the bed. Pretty simple, first time using my hollow chisel mortiser for a piece of furniture and boy did it really speed things up. It's made out of cherry with a couple coats of wipe on varnish and paste wax.


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## duckmilk

I like that idea Kev. It provides nice visual interest. Was that your actual top or a test piece?

Looks good Nugs.


----------



## theoldfart

Hey Bruce, sorry I called you Dan! Not that being a Dan is a bad thing it's just not your thing


----------



## GMatheson

Just a simple table but it's nice to say I've built something. It's been a while for me.










Plus I get to use my new branding iron.


----------



## CL810

Greg that's a nice table and brand. Most I see don't look anywhere close to that good. Very distinct lines. What size is it and who made it?


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## jmartel

+1. That brand is pretty awesome. Where's it from?


----------



## GMatheson

Brandingirons.com
Stamp is 1.5" tall. I sent them a rough picture of my family crest and they redrew it in vector form to get the nice lines. Wasn't cheap but should last forever.


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## jmartel

Red, have you seen this? Figured you would be interested since you just got a domino.

http://www.core77.com/posts/50862/More-Knockdown-Fasteners-This-Time-from-Festool

Not for every application, but in areas that will need to be disassembled and reassembled, it's another great argument for getting a Domino.


----------



## bobasaurus

Greg, that branding iron is amazing.

I managed to get two coats of finish on the table top finally:










I'm using Waterlox Original, and it looks good but so far the absorption is still uneven. The denser parts are extremely shiny while the softer parts are still dull. I'm thinking of sanding before the next coat, instead of following their instructions and not sanding till the end.


----------



## Hammerthumb

That's a cool looking top Allen.

I did a little bit of turning and finished up the top of the table legs.




























Now I just have to get up the courage to carve some flutes below the turned details. I have a little vacation time, so I hope to do this nex week.


----------



## bobasaurus

How, how did you manage to turn those so uniformly? You're a much better turner than me.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Actually I don't think I'm very good at turning. Skew chisel still gives me fits. I just took my time. I set the lathe up with real accurate centers so I could work a leg several times without upsetting the balance.










Also, I turner the round portion of the legs separate from the block portion. They are joined together with a round tenon at the brass ring.










I did this because I have some carvings I want to do on the blocks. It's easier when they are separate.

By the way, I hate turning.


----------



## theoldfart

Ok, progress so far


















SWMBO is happy, my instructor is happy, I'm happy.

My instructor btw won the Popular Woodworking furniture completion this year. Her work is visually stunning.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Great looking table Kevin! What kind of finish will you use?


----------



## DrDirt

Helping my oldest finish a pair of barstools. I did the design and made a construction lumber mock-up as part of a class several years ago. So when Junior was needing a project to take to the Tech Fair in Hays Kansas… we got this going. It is done - but I didn't take pictures of it. We did the finish with the maple seat and seat back seperate, so this morning it was just in clamps. Here we have a couple construction shots and us finishing with Waterlox. Final finish after cure is a satin laquer.

Fitting of all the curved joinery is easier when you hot melt glue the legs in place to hold everything in the right orientation…first glued up chair is on the floor in the background.









Coopering each seat bottom










Oiling the chairs with Waterlox.










Hoping he does well at the tech fair.
Lots of techniques - - major assembly is Doweled, but NONE of the joints are 90 degrees.
Back legs and the front to back stretcher are lamination bent.
Seat rails and the seat back are from blocks bandsawn to shape
Seat is coopered.

Maple and Mahoghany.

enjoy - - we are lucky to have shop class still here, for 16 year olds


----------



## Iguana

Trying to finish up a large table. I can never get long edges (8' 3" in this case) straight enough for glue up right off the power tools but hand tools and a bench make it a cinch.

I've already glued up the 3/4" center section, about 39" wide, and I'm adding 1 1/2" thick edges to bring it to a total of about 48" of width. I do the best I can with the jointer and table saw, but the large center section is pretty unwieldy. Even using featherboards to keep the sheet pressed against the fence, there's inevitably some minor variance (usually at the start or end of a cut) that would lead to a gap.

The thick edge section is manageable on the jointer so I get that as straight as I can and use it as a guide. I clamp the large sheet to my workbench using a couple of long cut-offs to space it off the top. Holding the edge board to the sheet, I scribe a line on the sheet and plane to the line using a jack or smoother - any plane where the sides are 90° to the sole will work. Long ribbons of shavings ensue:










Once I get a perfect fit (check often, don't rely solely on your scribe line!), I then add a slight (concave) spring to the sheet using a block plane. 3 wispy shaving's worth, no more, followed by one more full pass with the smoother. Just in case my fit isn't as perfect as I think, the joint will still clamp together and not show any gap at the ends.


----------



## theoldfart

Paul, i haven't decided yet. I'm intrigued by Waterlox so I may try that. I usually use natural colored Danish oil and then wax.

Mark, +1 to spring joints.

Chairs look good Dr. D


----------



## DrDirt

Well the boys are getting ready for the Tech Fair at Fort Hays State University - - an exhibition.
There is a facebook video of some of the projects going from the High School Shop. (USD 305) I took a screen grab of my boys chairs now put together. with the quarter scale model on the second chair.



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1020312371350587


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## BigRedKnothead

Man alive, everything posted here of late is top notch. I'm intimidated to post….lawlz.

I'm sure you guys have noticed that my projects move like molasses since the career change. Oh well, sacrifices are made. One more coat for the top though. Then rub it out.


----------



## DrDirt

Table lookin nice BigRed.. are you going to keep it high gloss in the rub out, or dull the sheen with steel wool and wax?


----------



## JayT

Your son has some skills, Dave. Hope he does well at Hays.

Table looks good, Red. Looks like you'll be taking the new truck to deliver.


----------



## Waldo88

Starting to get a good idea of what I want to do next (furniture-wise) now that I'm done with the loveseat I was working on and I've got my shop all cleaned up. Goodness, that place was trashed.

Also got around to a few shop projects I've been putting off as part of the cleanup; a place to store all my router bits and a rack to hang my chisels. Going to make a few small things before I start the next furniture project; some cooking utensils for the kitchen with my cherry scrap and some hanging shelves my wife wants.

Next up furniture-wise I'm going to make a small end table-charging station. Tablets/phone/other thing charging is getting out of control in our TV room and makes clutter, gotta fix that. I'm thinking of making a solid wood case with small drawers to hold tablets and whatnot, and a Qi charger inset into the top. And a hidden place to plug everything in.

I want to make a Nakashima style case with hand cut dovetails. I've never cut dovetails before so this should be a good challenge. I'm actually going to use formica laminate for the drawer fronts (already ordered it) instead of wood; this was a pretty common practice in MCM Furniture.


----------



## jmartel

Waldo, my dovetails aren't perfect, but they got significantly better with a Magnetic guide from David Barron. You can make your own if you don't want to buy one. Now the biggest thing I need to work on is the base line.

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/david-barron-magnetic-dovetail-saw-guide.aspx

Here's how to make one in wood
http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/page.asp?p=1458


----------



## BigRedKnothead

DrDirt- the poly is freshly sprayed there, hence the sheen. It will be satin though.

Jay- the set has got to go all the way to CO, so I'll probably have to rent a trailer to keep it covered.


----------



## rad457

Started building some end tables from Walnut, sort of a practice piece for the new Veritas scraper decided to forgo the planer and flatten my hand! Also going to try out a new finish, OSMO a hard wax finish from Germany?

















Amazing how a little bow can create so much work, did the final finish with the old Stanley cabinet scraper.


----------



## bearkatwood

Hey, smart looking job on that table Red. 
I have been hiding under a rock lately, haven't checked in to see what is going on. Definitely some top notch stuff going down. 
Dirt, great design on those stools, very delicate lines and they look comfortable. I like the back, it has a (Boggs) lily chair look, that I am fond of. I really like the curves added to your stretchers and skirting and the way you attached the backrest gives it a floating look. Nice work. 
Mark and Andre, I love the shaving on the table, those are wooden smiles! 
Oh and you old fart, your table is looking great, I can't wait to see it with finish on it. I mean it, finish. Now!  You're killin me. It is like waiting to unwrap your presents on your birthday. Suspenseful.

I have started on a set of dining chairs headed to Georgia.
They will be the Chester style in walnut.










But we are adding some cherry and curly maple to the mix and just upholstering the seat.




























I also got a new Go-Pro so I have some fun footage and these will be made into a youtube show as well.

I also started on the library chair set. I am making a chair and bench for my local library as part of a cultural grant. I am going with an ocean theme as I live on the coast. They will be walnut with some art nouveau carving and some waves. Hope they turn out nice. Here is how they started.
I received the grant.










I am using a slab I got at Goby Walnut in Portland for most of the build.










That sucker was heavy, 8/4 thick. Must weigh about 300#+.

I mean the walnut, not me.


----------



## pintodeluxe

Nice build BearKat.
That Goby lumberyard is so difficult to get in and out of. It's like pulling my trailer through a drivers ed course with orange cones everywhere. Thankfully I am all set on walnut stock for awhile.

Keep up the good work.


----------



## theoldfart

Well hell Brian, I'll see what I can arrange to ameliorate your angst!


----------



## TraylorPark

"Ameliorate"? My uh friend, yeah my friend, needs the definition of that. 

So I finished and delivered the TV cabinet last week. It turned out pretty nice, according to my folks, and they have to look at it everyday so I guess that's all that matters. Now my attention is back to the desk. Just 4 drawers to make then stain and finish. I'm almost certain my wife is convinced it's not really being built and I just go out in the shop and nap or something.


----------



## theoldfart

"to make or become better, more bearable, or more satisfactory; improve: strategies to ameliorate negative effects on the environment."


----------



## bearkatwood

Good for 500, We would have also accepted meliorate. 
I'll take American folk hero's for $1,200 Alex.
Oops, am I on the wrong site?
Hey you with the big words, I am a WOODWORKER not a thesaurusianist. 
But I can get better.


----------



## Iguana

Like that chair design, Brian. Are you going to bend those back slats or leave 'em straight?


----------



## bearkatwood

bent glue lams


----------



## DrDirt

Thanks Brian -
It is a design I worked on during a design class from Michael fortune back in 2011 at the Marc Adams school.
I had made a full scale mock-up out of construction lumber and screws. Don't know if it is a Boggs/Lily based design, but it is taken from a number of images and derived from there. we made the 1/4 scale model in the pictures. Once we "like" the proportions, we scaled up and made a full scale plan. Learned a ton from that class.

The mock-up sat in the corner of the shop for years, until my oldest boy took this to his high school shop class as a project, and made a bending form, and worked out the joinery to make it for real.
Just got back a few hours ago from the 56th annual Tech Fair at Fort Hays State University.
http://www.fhsu.edu/news/Annual-technology-fair-on-tap-at-Fort-Hays-State-University/

Blue ribbon with a 'Rosette/medallion" Lots of good stuff there. Proud of him.. he's doing better work than I was at 16!


----------



## TheFridge

A couple boo boos but it came out well for only starting on it Sunday. Should've clamped a lot better when gluing. Maple and sapele. I hate small dovetails. Gonna raffle it off tomorrow at a Relay for Life event (raising money for cancer research). Hope it fetches a couple bucks.


----------



## WillliamMSP

> Thanks Brian -
> It is a design I worked on during a design class from Michael fortune back in 2011 at the Marc Adams school.
> I had made a full scale mock-up out of construction lumber and screws. Don t know if it is a Boggs/Lily based design, but it is taken from a number of images and derived from there. we made the 1/4 scale model in the pictures. Once we "like" the proportions, we scaled up and made a full scale plan. Learned a ton from that class.
> 
> The mock-up sat in the corner of the shop for years, until my oldest boy took this to his high school shop class as a project, and made a bending form, and worked out the joinery to make it for real.
> Just got back a few hours ago from the 56th annual Tech Fair at Fort Hays State University.
> http://www.fhsu.edu/news/Annual-technology-fair-on-tap-at-Fort-Hays-State-University/
> 
> Blue ribbon with a Rosette/medallion" Lots of good stuff there. Proud of him.. he s doing better work than I was at 16!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - DrDirt


Those chairs look awesome - I saw a picture of them previously, but didn't see/appreciate the back/leg elements until now. Kudos to your son on the work and the results!


----------



## rad457

Call it done, the OSMO is nice to work with, going to give it a little buff to get some shine.


----------



## bearkatwood

Nice job wrapping the grain.


----------



## Pezking7p

Soooo much good stuff going on in here.

Waldo, the love seat is simply stunning. I really like what the dark wax did to the cherry. Can you point me in the direction of the brand/type you used?

Edit: lol just looked back and saw it was briwax. It was so many posts ago, sorry.


----------



## duckmilk

^+1, Thesaurusianist???


----------



## ColonelTravis

I read this thread all the time, plan to contribute with a real project in the near future. Got a question about dovetails - I'm getting pretty proficient with them by hand - except figuring out how to smooth down the sides. Planes, chisel, sandpaper, what do you guys use? First time I tried a plane I ripped the tails to shreds. But I've tried to be careful and I still cannot get that method down pat. Sandpaper has been good but if you've got some overhand you can be there all day. Chisels I'm ok with but on wide material that can take a while.

Any tips?


----------



## Iguana

Low angle block plane. You are trimming end grain, the low angle makes a big difference. So does sharp, as always.

Plane into the board so you're not causing spelching.


----------



## CL810

Colonel, another thing that helps is to soak the area with mineral spirits.


----------



## bearkatwood

I like to employ an army of carpenter ants, I pay them with three drops of grape jelly to clean up my drawer sides. 
Not really, a low angle block plane is what you need, but those ants do a beautiful job. Do like Mark said and if you are still getting spelching try scewing the blade as you push thru.


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## rad457

In its new home, now to finish sofa end table!


----------



## ColonelTravis

MS soak - interesting. I should have thought of my LA block but because I'm an idiot I haven't even tried it. Pretend I didn't ask this question!

Thanks


----------



## BigRedKnothead

About five coats of satin poly. Lookin good, but I need this thing out of my shop. Can't work on anything else because i can't make any dust. 









Rained here all 4 of my days off. Jmart, you can have Seattle back.


----------



## bobasaurus

Tried applying another coat to my table top this weekend, but Waterlox does not like the cold weather. I'll have to sand off the blushed finish now and try recoating again when it's warmer.


----------



## Sunstealer73

Stupid question I'm sure, but I'm going to ask it anyway. I'm building my first side table with a drawer. I want the grain of the drawer to match the apron. Do I saw off the top and bottom strips, saw out the drawer front from the center section, and then glue it back together without the drawer front? Should I do the joinery (m&t) before or after?


----------



## jmartel

Sunstealer, that's the approach I did with my coffee table (in my projects). Do the joinery after. When you glue everything up again, put the drawer front and spacers back in the glue up assembly as well so you can size it correctly. I ripped the center areas down another 1/8" so that there was an even 1/16" reveal around the drawer front when finished. If you don't rip down the center pieces, you will have 1/8" reveal, which is too much.


----------



## jar944

Glued these up back in march, but getting my house ready to sell has taken all my free time.. finally had a bit of time to prime, paint and try out a upholstery idea.

As an aside, I just picked up a fuji mini mite 4 stage sprayer… I love that thing.

And swmbo picked out the color… it's not supposed to be bright white, she told me it's off white/ slightly gray. I told her it matches the white primer..lol.


----------



## putty

You sure did a nice job on the paint Jar! Was it an oil based paint?


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## DanKrager

+1 on the paint job, Jar.

I learned to do upholstery in a dining room furniture mfr facility as manager of the night shift. I was astonished at the speed and accuracy those guys achieved. I also learned that a squarish corner doesn't have to have a fold showing, which came in very handy in my own shop. So with that background and looking at the corners of your seat done in a "traditional" fold, it caught my eye.

As a point of interest, not that you should do it, if you ever so slightly round the corner, only slightly more than you may have already done, the fold can be eliminated, or at worst, greatly minimized. Staple the sides to within about 2" of the corner first, then pull the corner over and staple it as far from the corner as the fabric allows. This gives room to do a very tight series of mini folds on each side of the center using overlapping staples to keep the outside edge as smooth as possible. It doesn't seem possible at first, but with strong fingers, maybe even needle nose pliers, it can be done. The picture I found shows a fold free corner, but it is much more rounded than I've seen done.

Those stools are nice enough to be worth the effort, IMHO.

DanK


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## jar944

> You sure did a nice job on the paint Jar! Was it an oil based paint?
> 
> - putty


Actually it's benjamin Moore advance waterborne. Ive used it (brushed) before, and it its the most oil like waterborne Paint I've come across. It really levels nicely (if you are fast enough) its not nearly open as long as a true oil.

Smells about as bad as a oil as it cures as well.


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## jar944

> +1 on the paint job, Jar.
> 
> I learned to do upholstery in a dining room furniture mfr facility as manager of the night shift. I was astonished at the speed and accuracy those guys achieved. I also learned that a squarish corner doesn t have to have a fold showing, which came in very handy in my own shop. So with that background and looking at the corners of your seat done in a "traditional" fold, it caught my eye.
> 
> As a point of interest, not that you should do it, if you ever so slightly round the corner, only slightly more than you may have already done, the fold can be eliminated, or at worst, greatly minimized. Staple the sides to within about 2" of the corner first, then pull the corner over and staple it as far from the corner as the fabric allows. This gives room to do a very tight series of mini folds on each side of the center using overlapping staples to keep the outside edge as smooth as possible. It doesn t seem possible at first, but with strong fingers, maybe even needle nose pliers, it can be done. The picture I found shows a fold free corner, but it is much more rounded than I ve seen done.
> 
> Those stools are nice enough to be worth the effort, IMHO.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Thanks, Im not a fan of the folds either, I just wasn't sure if it was possible to do it without them. I was also concerned about what would happen to the chevron patern If I stretched the fabric that much.

I'll search for some more upholstery tutorials


----------



## ColonelTravis

I was going to say what Dan said. My wife does a lot of this sort of thing and I've learned through osmosis. Here's another visual, although it's not as pristine as Dan's example. As for the pattern distorting, I don't think that would be a problem but I defer to the experts.
http://www.craftaholicsanonymous.net/how-to-upholster-dining-room-chairs-tutorial-and-a-sneak-peak-at-my-dining-room

Great job on that stool, regardless!


----------



## jar944

2nd attempt


----------



## DanKrager

Oh wow! Now THAT's a great corner. Well done, man. It just looks more comfortable!

DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Finishing up a pair of mirror image bathroom vanities and there are six drawers involved, two of each height. I'm sort of hybrid in this construction, but a lot of the work is with hand tools, especially on the drawers. Hand cut dovetails and hand planed inside and out. I took great care to lay out the joints and used my best combination of techniques for speed and accuracy and the effort has paid off handsomely. The drawer parts are so precise that just for fun I mixed up the (marked) parts and they fit just as well as in their home location, tap together with hands, no gaps to fix. Kind of amazed myself. Part of the pay off of precision was that I could stack clamp the drawers using a set of giant cauls I made for other projects and gain a lot of space and time otherwise spent handling clamps or straps.


















DanK


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> Finishing up a pair of mirror image bathroom vanities and there are six drawers involved, two of each height. I m sort of hybrid in this construction, but a lot of the work is with hand tools, especially on the drawers. Hand cut dovetails and hand planed inside and out. I took great care to lay out the joints and used my best combination of techniques for speed and accuracy and the effort has paid off handsomely. The drawer parts are so precise that just for fun I mixed up the (marked) parts and they fit just as well as in their home location, tap together with hands, no gaps to fix. Kind of amazed myself. Part of the pay off of precision was that I could stack clamp the drawers using a set of giant cauls I made for other projects and gain a lot of space and time otherwise spent handling clamps or straps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Amazing!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Neat trick Dan. I'll have to remember that one!


----------



## Cathie5757

Wow, nice projects folks! I absolutely love the idea of making lots of quality, unique and useful furniture. I don't have the skill yet… But I will. I graduated from the big box store ply to Baltic berch ply recently and was super proud to understand and appreciate how fortunate I am to work with the better grade now. I just bought a couple of small boards of poplar, red oak and something else. I don't know what I'll do with them yet but I'm excited to do anything I can. Thought about some "mini" 1 foot chairs just to work with the wood and not freak out about messing up on stuff that's not cheap. I love looking at all of the furniture other LJs make. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## bearkatwood

As it turns out in the summer months I get less and less time to goof off and less time to read threads like this one. You all saw what happens in the winter when I get too much time off 
I have very much enjoyed following along with the progress posted here lately, you all are doing some amazing work. Keep it up!!
Have a great day and have fun woodworking! Be safe.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Wuddup knuckleheads. I'm still dangling around. On top of the new job I've been filling in as a youth pastor after a debacle at our church. Should be able to get back in the shop the next weeks.

This is my shop. Notice….after 9 months of work, there is no dining set to be seen. Hallelujah. 
Well, now it's just in my house. But I'm ready for something else. Blog and shizzle to follow.


----------



## PPK

Hi guys, Like some other's I've been lurking on this forum, and really enjoy seeing what you all can do. I do have a question that maybe someone(s) could help me with: How to fasten a solid chair seat down to my chairs w/out running into trouble with seasonal changes in the wood due to humidity.

Here's some pics of what I've got going - its kinda similar to what Big Red Knothead has been building, thanks Red for all the inspiration, and sorry if I copied some of your ideas ;-)






















































It will be a set of 3 bar-height dining room chairs to go under my island.









Hickory w/ Walnut back slats. I plan to use danish oil, then several coats of Arm r Seal.

My plan tentatively is to make a pockethole right in the middle of the front and back rails. Then the wood can move feely side to side. But I'd like fasten (guide) the sides so that they can still move laterally, but yet not lift up, in case someone picks up the chair by the seat. Any ideas?


----------



## bearkatwood

Since this design is similar to having an upholstered slip seat on the chair frame I would say it needs corner blocks and then you could drill an over-sized hole thru the corner blocks into the seat and use washers giving the screws the ability to move as needed, though the seasonal movement on this design will be almost negligible. Other than that your chair has very clean lines and the joinery looks well done. Great job.


----------



## bobasaurus

Pete, those curved mortise and tenon pieces look complicated to make, well done.


----------



## DanKrager

^^+1 Pete. Corner blocks are probably your best choice since the frame of the chair won't get much help from the rigidity of the seat due to the "loose" screw holes which are necessary. Make them thick and glue and screw them to the frame with generosity, i.e. don't skimp on the glue and use four screws to the frame(s). There are other methods closely related to securing a solid table top, grooves and L-blocks for example, that do not contribute to the structure of the chair like glue blocks will. The blocks are especially important in the rear corners because those rear joints suffer greatly when the 400 lb gorilla rears back on the rear legs on a dining room carpet.

DanK


----------



## PPK

Thanks Dan and Bearkat, I will use corner blocks (did the first chair last night actually). Bring on those 300 lb gorillas!!!










This is my first attempt at chairs, and I'm learning a lot in the process. Luckily, I'm happy with the result thus far.

Oops, that kind of blurry.. My phone camera must have been full of sawdust.


----------



## DrDirt

The corner blocks would certainly help keep the Mortice and tennons from getting loose over time.

The joint to the back leg is where most of the stress is, since people lean back, and the long back leg is a great lever.

If you are keeping the lighter feel, figure 8 fasteners work also. I use them to attach the top to a dresser case. Corner blocks are teh strongest option… and been standard for hundreds of years for a good reason.










But I would out them on the front and back rails (inside of course)of the chair, so that the seat can get wider and skinnier, If you just put them on the side, it would trap the seat.


----------



## DanKrager

Nice chairs, Pete! I don't remember if you said what finish you plan to use. I really dislike finishing chairs…think of all the surfaces.

I 300 lb gorillas I don't worry about. It's the 400 lbs ones… LAWL!

DanK


----------



## PPK

Danish Oil, then Arm R Seal wiped on. I couldn't agree more - I'd much rather spray 3 nice easy coats of lacquer, but I just don't think lacquer will stand up well on these chairs. (I have children. Under the age of 5. read: spills, booster seat abrasion, toys driving on the seats, you name it.)


----------



## bearkatwood

Hey all, I put together a quick video on how I make my lamination forms.
Enjoy.




View on YouTube


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice Job on the chair PPK. There are lots of ways to attach a chair seat….or any other solid top. I mixed it up on this set with:










Pocket screw in the center, then clips in a groove. Pocket screws are often found in antiques, believe it or not. Except they were chopped in a V with a chisel. I use those figure 8 fasteners for tabletops all the time.

Copy away brother. All artisans are thieves.


----------



## CL810

That is one fine video Brian. Thanks for making it.


----------



## putty

^ Ditto

Brian, I'm glad you found your way to Lumberjocks


----------



## bobasaurus

Still working on finishing the damn table top. It's either slumped every coat if I applied it thick, or left a cloudy finish if I applied it thin. I've been in email contact with Waterlox and gotten some instructions that I tried out tonight. So far, the wet finish is looking good:










Their support is super good so far, too.


----------



## bearkatwood

Hey, I dig that turquoise inlay! Izzy Swan from youtube has some tabletop fasteners at fastcap that have an elongated slot to allow for seasonal movement. I ordered two packs and I am waiting to have a project to use them on.
Hey Putty, I am glad I found you guys! and thanks cl810

Izzy Skirt Washers


----------



## byerbyer

Great vid, Brian. You're a welcome addition to LJ's.

Had a few other projects slow down work on my dresser. Like installing a kitchen for my Aunt & Uncle. 









Here's the last "cabinet" to ready to be installed. That will between the chimney on the right and the corner cabinet on the far wall. 









I'll post some pics from the completed job that aren't from my phone


----------



## bearkatwood

Nice work.


----------



## jmartel

Nice video, Brian. I still haven't done much curved work yet. And I suck with spokeshaves.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Brian, always enjoy your videos.

I've been staring at chairs for the last several days because of this thread. It's like a mental disorder - I cannot stop looking at chairs and trying to figure out how they were made.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Brian - what adhesive are you using for your bent laminations?


----------



## duckmilk

Great video Brian. You explained your technique very well.

+1 to Paul's question, do you use different glues for different wood species?


----------



## bearkatwood

Chairs are like one of those things you can't un-see. Once you start looking at how they are made you will find that you are an embarrassment to those around you as you turn the chair upside down in a fancy restaurant to see how it was made.
For the glue lams I use tightbond 3 and for just about any permanent glue up I use TB3, for joints that could come loose over time and need repair use hide glue.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Oh shoot. I've been on the floor looking at them. What a dunce I am!

Thanks for the tip on the glue.


----------



## duckmilk

Ha!


----------



## Hammerthumb

That's what the girl in the chair said! ^


----------



## DanKrager

Brian, I could agree with your statement about using hide glue in repairable joints on everything but joints that flex. Hide glue dries to a brittle crystalline form that cracks apart from stress and eventually crumbles in the joint under the stress of movement. Depending on the conditions, it might take a very long time. This doesn't mean that hide glue should not be used in chair joinery, just that there is then a foreshortened life expectancy because of the flexing that occurs in chair joints. Supposedly it is easily repaired, but the depth of the joinery and the physical damage done to the distorted wood of the wiggly joint hasn't yielded an effective repair in my hands. Perhaps you can shed some light on a technique that works for hide glue.
Back in the 70's I came across an article (long forgotten source) that described a repair process for chair joints that claimed to be the best available. I'd never seen anything like it before nor since but I have used it all the time since 1976 when chair repairs were my bread and butter. It was a combination of cleaning the joint of loose material and dressing mating parts, one with grooves, and one with "feathers" by cutting barbs on the male part so that when restored to original position there became a mechanical interlock. This was absolutely worthless unless combined with of all things Elmer's Glue, the white polyvinyl that stays flexible. That combination was unbeatable for durability and I never saw the chairs I used it on again for more repair. I followed one batch of chairs repaired for a family of 9 with a carpeted dining floor (yes it was!) and those chairs are still going today. A second experience that verifies the notion I'm presenting is that Hill Mfr Company that specialized in high quality wooden dining room furniture used the white polyvinyl on their chair assemblies while everyone else was using something else.
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything here, just sharing my experience. 
DanK


----------



## bearkatwood

If you can get access to Fine woodworking #57 there is a great article by Jim Cummins about hide glue. You can add glycerin to get more flexibility with the glue, but it is not recommended for highly stressed joints.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Chairs are like one of those things you can t un-see. Once you start looking at how they are made you will find that you are an embarrassment to those around you as you turn the chair upside down in a fancy restaurant to see how it was made.
> - bearkatwood


Not fancy but I swear I did this at Schlotzsky's last night. One guy in the corner looked at me. My wife just rolled her eyes.


----------



## bearkatwood

When you place the chair upside down on the table and start pointing out the joinery mistakes you will get some really fun looks


----------



## jmartel

Haven't posted an update in a while, but I shortened up the corbels and changed the shape. Just about ready for finish.


----------



## bearkatwood

Looking sharp JMartel. I really like the thin frame of the doors, gives them a very sleek look. Nice work.


----------



## bobasaurus

Those really look great. What is a corbel?


----------



## jmartel

The curved pieces on the outside of the legs.


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## CL810

Jcorbell, you nailed it! They look perfect.


----------



## bearkatwood

I like that they call them tassels or braggers in the UK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corbel


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## ColonelTravis

Jcorbel…


How did you attach them? Great job on the whole thing, really like them.


----------



## jmartel

They are glued on. Just straight to the leg, no joinery or anything. They aren't really carrying any load at all.


----------



## Hammerthumb

> I like that they call them tassels or braggers in the UK
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corbel
> 
> - bearkatwood


Jtassels?


----------



## bearkatwood

Jright! Jwhat??


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The furniture maker must not delay delivery of a commission…..lest the furniture makers wife get too attached;-)


----------



## DanKrager

Oh my, Red. I can see why she might get attached… Rest assured she hasn't forgotten! By default, even if she doesn't say anything, you are now obligated to do something for her. If you don't it's like not buying her a gift for Mother's Day or birthday or forgetting the anniversary! Good luck. It truly is beautiful.

DanK

That's gonna make someone a nice workbench some day… Just sayin'.


----------



## PPK

Nice work!! ^

So… if you guys were making a chair, would you peg the mortise and tennon joints, in particular the 4 "seat" ones that get a lot of stress & strain? I know that this makes it fairly indestructible, BUT, on the other hand, I'm thinking to myself, if you ever had to take it apart for repairing, how do you get a pegged joint apart? I did use hide glue partially for this reason of repair, and also because of the slower set time that allows me to get things fitted and squared before glue "sticks". Maybe I'm overthinking it. They are built out of hickory, and I tend to over-build, so I really seriously doubt that these things are gonna fall apart in my lifetime… Just peg 'em and move on? How bout a screw on the inside instead of peg? seriously non-traditional, I know.


----------



## DanKrager

In my experience of repairs, nails and screws contribute negatively to the strength of a joint. I've never had to repair a pegged joint, so that either speaks to the durability of them or the lousy quality of the stuff brought for repair.

DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Dan. I need to work up a final blog and get that baby outta here.

Pete, I do like to peg the main chair joints where possible. Repairing a pegged joint isn't a deterrent. Just drill out the peg with a slightly bigger bit, and reinsert a slightly bigger dowel after repair.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Red - super table and chairs. Look forward to reading more about them.


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## CL810

Beautiful Red! Bust out the domino and make another set for your bride.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys.

Andy, funny you say that.. This set makes my old table look like a poker table. It may get demoted to the basement for just that….lol.


----------



## theoldfart

Nice Red. When you making Heather's?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Heh, who knows Kev. I have two other couples who would like me to make them a dining set….but I'm in no hurry. I just don't have the woodworking time I used to. And my kids are getting into those years you don't want to miss.

I'm gonna knock out some night stands for the kids with my new domino. Then we'll see what I feel like after that.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

This thing stinks. It's gonna take me at least an hour or so to make all the joinery for 4 night stands.


----------



## Hammerthumb

If it does not live up to expectations, you should send it to me for a full evaluation.


----------



## Hammerthumb

;-)


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> A couple boo boos but it came out well for only starting on it Sunday. Should ve clamped a lot better when gluing. Maple and sapele. I hate small dovetails. Gonna raffle it off tomorrow at a Relay for Life event (raising money for cancer research). Hope it fetches a couple bucks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those dovetails look fantastic to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - TheFridge


----------



## bearkatwood

beautiful stuff there!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Somebody needs to get back to making some furniture around here!


----------



## bearkatwood

Alright already!!



























I am working on a set of dining room chairs that are heading to Georgia.
I talked about them in my latest video.




View on YouTube
There!! Ya happy now Red?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Sorry Red. Life and work has been keeping me too busy lately. With my daughter and SIL working different shifts now, I should have time starting this weekend to resume work on the card table. Keep crackin the whip!

I like your cart, Brian. I think my grandson would claim it if I brought one in the shop!


----------



## bearkatwood

I got the cart at harbor freight and found the decal on-line. Just for fun.
Today I got to play with my new toy, the multi router. So far I am very happy with it.









Usually I would have my MP3 player in while I did the noisy stuff, jammin out, but today I went with Big Red Bun Head 









Every time I make a batch of these chairs I tell myself it is the last time. They have so much going on with the sweep that it makes the joinery a pain to line up, but the multi router did a slammin job on them today. I still want to move on to a new design though.









Insert peg "A" into slot "B" 


















1/2 done 13 halves to go. phew, I'm tired.
Have a nice night.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Bueno Brian.

I was mostly psyching myself up to build again, but I'm glad it kicked some of you guys too;-)

Glad you're diggin the multi-router. I'm still impressed with the domino. Night stands are already dry fittin.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I can see where the multi-router would come in handy for that Brian.

Nice looking chairs.

I typed this 3 hours ago and got busy here at work. Forgot to push send.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice night stands Red.


----------



## bearkatwood

Looks like you are having fun with your domino, how do you like it? Nice grain on those by the way. Those are going to look sharp.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys. I bought a 2×12x12 chunk of curly cherry I found last year. I've gotten good use of it on several projects.

I am enjoying the domino. Granted, it should be nice for the pricetag, but it is the most well thought out power tool I have seen. They're thought of everything. My xl model has six little spring-loaded indexing pins, kinda seen here:









They make it silly simple to layout and repeat the mortises. Hook one indexing pin on the end of the board, then another hooks in the mortise you just made. Pretty slick.


----------



## ShaneA

lol, I still haven't even taken mine out of the box yet. How about the CT? It was hard for me to justify that much money for a vacuum, but went for it anyway. I figure that thing will speed building significantly, and also be way easier mortising method on the larger projects.


----------



## theoldfart

A little more progress, getting ready to glue up the top. Just need to plane a little more off the cauls and should have it done tonight 









Taking a sharpening class from Garrett Hack in June, should be fun.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> lol, I still haven t even taken mine out of the box yet. How about the CT? It was hard for me to justify that much money for a vacuum, but went for it anyway. I figure that thing will speed building significantly, and also be way easier mortising method on the larger projects.
> 
> - ShaneA


On the vac. I do think the festool vac are the nicest, quietest vacs out there. They're probably are a bit over-priced. And a festool vac isn't as necessary as I thought to run the domino. That said, the vac really shines with the sander and the router setup.


----------



## theoldfart

Almost there.


----------



## bearkatwood

Man I really want to build a chair to go with that table, those lines are very nice. It has a good flow to it. I would like to see a shot of how you would see it in the house looking down at it, it is turning out very nicely. Great work.


----------



## theoldfart

I'll see what I can do Brian. Feel free to use the design.


----------



## theoldfart

Brian, in situ(sp?)









Top is done, end grain with a 113 is not fun! A lot of time sharpening 


















End result was worth it


----------



## Hammerthumb

Did I hear Brian offer to make you a chair to go with that?


----------



## theoldfart

You know I think he did now that you mention it!


----------



## putty

That is a beautiful little table, what will you use for a finish Kevin?


----------



## Mosquito

Kevin that's a gorgeous table


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks guys. Paul I will be using Danish oil and wax.


----------



## TheFridge

Good stuff goin on there ladies!

Tried me some shellac this weekend. Thinks I'm gonna like.


----------



## DanKrager

Really, really nice table, Kevin. Should make some coasters right away. Just sayin'

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, SWMBO said to tell you NUTHIN' goes on HER table  Guess I'll have to make another one for myself!

BTW your idea for the edge really made the table, Thanks.


----------



## CL810

Great work Kev, beautiful design.


----------



## johnstoneb

TOF
That table came out looking excellent.


----------



## bearkatwood

Made a little progress today, I have four saw orders going at the same time so I am juggling projects.
The M&T's with the multi router are awesome. I am standing on the chair with just the tenons holding.. no clamps, no glue. Nice! And I weigh over 200lb, we won't go into how much over just over o.k. so stop talking about it. Just know it will hold up o.k.









Starting to look like a chair  sits nicely so far.


----------



## theoldfart

Nice Brian, is that my chair?


----------



## bearkatwood

No, I am not that fast. This is a set of 6 chairs that are going to Georgia. I showed a preview of them in my last video. I am making 7 and keeping one for an example.













View on YouTube


----------



## TheFridge

Again, awesome stuff.


----------



## theoldfart

One downside to taking forever to complete a project. Dents! So. Time to do the laundry…..


----------



## Hammerthumb

Getting the wrinkles out there Kevin?


----------



## theoldfart

Paul, out of the wood? Yes!

Almost time for a glue and screws


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That is a heckuva design Kev. Bravo.


----------



## theoldfart

Thank you Red.


----------



## byerbyer

Table turned out terrific OF. Well done!


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Byer.


----------



## DanKrager

OK, Kev. You're done with the prototype. When does production start?

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, that is the production piece. My organization does things with an eye towards maximizing billable hours. I figure with the time invested and the money it will bring I can really retire. Anybody want a $100,000 90+-% done table?

:-/


----------



## Hammerthumb

What's that? About $13 an hour.

Oh, sorry. That would be for something I made.


----------



## Waldo88

Since finishing the loveseat I was working on, I finally had time to get around to a bunch of little stuff in the shop, but now I'm itching to make some furniture.

I was going to make a changing stand for all of our electronics in the living room, but we found something that would work (made of metal) at an antique show, wife was starting to get that too much wood vibe from the living room.

So I'm going to make a bookcase for our bedroom instead. I'm thinking something along the lines of this:









But I'm going to make it our of solid walnut with a dovetailed case instead, probably with a straight (but angled) front (or a subtle curve) and straight legs (the front leg on this one is curved, I don't care for that). For the back I'm either going to veneer some plywood with some walnut veneer I have or find some interesting wallpaper and use that, depends on what the wife wants. I might add a small drawer (in the middle on the right?), though I'm not sure what purpose it would serve other than to look cool.

I figure about 30 bdft of walnut should be enough. 25 bdft of 4/4 and 5 bdft of 6/4.


----------



## PPK

All that description, but no picture, I'm super curious now! (The pic. doesn't seem to load)


----------



## theoldfart

Waldo, i'd curve both the sides and the front leg. Looking forward to your design.


----------



## bearkatwood

Getting along well with the chairs, today I fit the back slats for the first chair and made jigs so all the joinery will go smoothly for the other six.



































I cut up a piece of foam to test the "sit" and boy are they comfy. I still have yet to put in the bottom stretcher but not too far to go on them.









Every day I am blown away at this great space I get to work in. I am tremendously blessed and very thankful for it. A nice work space is very inspiring. Thanks to all those who followed along with me as I made it… and these chairs, you are a bunch of great people to chat with.
Have a great weekend.


----------



## jmartel

Those chairs look great, Brian.

I have the last coat of finish on my nightstands on now apart from the drawer bottoms. Just need to install pulls and finish the bottoms and they are done.


----------



## Waldo88

> Waldo, i d curve both the sides and the front leg. Looking forward to your design.
> 
> - theoldfart


Curved sides as in bowed in/out or curved front edges? I dig that subtle curve on the edges of your table, I think a long arc like that would work really well.


----------



## johnstoneb

TOF
The changes you made in that table are just what it needed. That is looking good. I really like the way the top looks like it is floating.


----------



## DrDirt

Brian (Bearkat)
Thanks for the video - - learned something new for me, I had never tried bent lamination with only 2 ply.

I always though you needed 3 minimum (2 glue lines) to lock in a curve….so much for that bit of folklore, thanks!!

Love the chairs!


----------



## Waldo88

I've finally got around to posting my Loveseat project:

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/248610

I was going to do the credenza I made first, but I need to take a few more better pictures. Figured it was about time to quit slacking; people here obviously judge the validity of your comments in other threads by the projects in your gallery, it high time I posted my best.


----------



## DanKrager

Well, I know where I stand, Waldo. Haven't posted anything to the gallery for a long time.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Waldo, curved edge with a curved leg mimicking the same arc. Also don't let the inmates here dictate what you need to post or not to post as validation of any opinion you may wish to post..

Bruce thanks.


----------



## duckmilk

Looking forward to the final reveal Kev.

Brian, are you going to put a weight rating label on those chairs :O)


----------



## bearkatwood

Weight rating ? What are you trying to say? Ha.. Chunky style! 

Hey all, here is a quick music video of the making of the chairs. Hope you like.
I got a go-pro and had fun making this one.




View on YouTube


----------



## jmartel

I like that video, Brian. I had to laugh at the shot from the GoPro attached to the garage door though.


----------



## theoldfart

Brian, first woodworking video I've watched. Good job and nice sound track.


----------



## bearkatwood

Yeah I liked the garage door thing too. I figured "why not"  My trailer park version of a camera boom. If you have ever seen any of Kyle Toth's videos he has mounted the camera to the inside of a huge bowl on the lathe, now that was wild!


----------



## theoldfart

Glue's drying and finishing has begun


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Atta boy Kev, I'm in finishing mode too.

Getting a professional quality finish with polyurethane takes some work. Of course you need to spray several coats sanding between each. But this is my not-so-secret final step to get that satin look and silky feel. After the poly has cured for a week or two, I apply Howard's Feed'n'wax (liquified bees wax), and work it over with a very fine sanding pad. Wait 30 min and buff it off. Silky it is.


----------



## jmartel

Lots of finishing going on. My nightstands are officially finished.

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/248906

Red, I usually do something similar. Paste wax applied with #0000 steel wool. Works very well, and leaves a nice satin sheen.


----------



## DanKrager

How does the panel deal will steel wool sheds in the finishing process? Every time I've tried using a steel wool pad (it doesn't seem to matter how fine) it leaves part of itself hooked into the wood or embedded in the finish or wax. It also tends to discolor light colored woods. Am I doing something inadequate or just plain wrong?

DanK


----------



## waho6o9

That's why I use bronze wool

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_nkw=bronze+wool+fine&_frs=1


----------



## theoldfart

almost


----------



## DanKrager

Oh the SHAME, Kevin. A topless nude…what's your SO gonna say about that?

DanK

Nice legs though.


----------



## theoldfart

"topless nude" & "Nice legs"............I like 'em that way! just saying….


----------



## bearkatwood

Looking sharp!!


----------



## theoldfart

done, well 99%, but enough for next weekends show.


----------



## woodcox

Great work Kevin. The color is luscious.

Thank you for the suggestion wahoo.


----------



## CL810

Looks great Kevin, what show?


----------



## theoldfart

Place where I take furniture classes, student show.


----------



## Waldo88

That is one sharp looking table. Kudos.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

DanK's topless joke had me rollin.

Final dining set blog is up:
http://www.westfallwoodcraft.com/2016/05/dining-set-tutorial-7-cherry-and-walnut.html

And a few "finished" pics.


----------



## bearkatwood

beautiful work Red. I like the two different back rests and the detail you put into it. The table goes so nicely. Great work!


----------



## DanKrager

Awesome,BRK! That's truly a worthy and beautiful heirloom!

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

The set came out great Red, should last and be appreciated for many lifetimes.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks fellers. I'm ready to get it outta here…lol

Project post is up. http://lumberjocks.com/projects/249234


----------



## bearkatwood

Today's progress saw almost all of the pieces to their final shape and the joinery 99.99% done. 


















Hoping to start gluing chairs up by Friday and next Friday start on finish if all goes well. Then comes the crate and the shipping. Woo-hoo!!
Have a great one people!!


----------



## jmartel

Very nice, Brian. I like the way you did the back slats.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Man you people and your chairs! Great stuff.
Red I like your old level cauls. Can I ask a Charles Neil-kinda question? Did you finish any of the parts before assembly?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Very nice chairs Brian!










It's nice to have friends with CNC and waterjet machines! Although I do tinker with metal from time to time, making these would have really taken a monumental effort. Just the time to inlay them will be a task!


----------



## bearkatwood

And then there were two 
On track to have these two glued up tomorrow if the creek don't rise and all that.


















I like the brass fluer de lis, what are you going to inlay them in? Hopefully that calender is huge or the inlay is going to be a pain.


----------



## TheFridge

Oooh I want one hammer…


----------



## Hammerthumb

This is where they will go, but I have to re-cut the Bubinga ovals as they are a little too big.



















I've started hand carving the flutes on the legs. They really take time to get them right.

How many do you want Fridge? They are 1.75"X1.25", but I can have them re-sized to whatever you need. He said that he can whip up more real quick. N/C

I spend a lot of money with him for work, and he finds what I do for a hobby facinating.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks again Paul.

Shop furniture? Big moxon 26" ish between screws.

Didn't just want to glue face grain so I figured I'd give cross grain doves a shot. The Summerfield special needed a work out.



























I shouldn't have put it down as far as I did for the fit because I'm slightly undercutting and I didn't think I was gonna get it off. It worked out fine though. Gotta clean up the baseline and glue her.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice work Fridge.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks man.

Would anyone shellac something like a moxon? Any negatives? All opinions welcome

I'd like it to be my go to for shop furniture and small projects.


----------



## ColonelTravis

I never fully appreciated the idea of a moxon until after bending down again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and then a lot more after that hand-cutting dovetails. But since I still don't have one, is it something you moxon owners wish you'd had earlier?


----------



## JayT

> But since I still don t have one, is it something you moxon owners wish you d had earlier?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


YES!

I'd also advise to take the extra step to make a bench on bench with a Moxon on the front. That elevated work surface is very useful and gets used a lot more than I had thought it would when I built it.


----------



## bearkatwood

Amazing work on both those projects, I can't wait to see them progress. I like the laminated dovetails, and that leg is going to be wild. There you go Red, you wanted someone to build some furniture, happy now? 
Just one question Fridge, you have your door taped like it is going to get painted, but it looks like it is about to fall apart and a fresh coat of paint might not be what it needs or go with the rest of the decor. Is there a story there? I thought it would be fun to ask.


----------



## Mosquito

+1 on the moxon. I always meant to make a bench top bench, but ended up just making a moxon on a whim one day. I use a practice dovetaile board as a table, sort of. I just clamp it behind the work piece, to use as a table


----------



## dbray45

Fridge - nice piece of work on the dovetails.


----------



## duckmilk

Nice work Fridge. Re: shellac, I don't have one, but I would think you don't want to put anything on it that would make it not grip the workpiece. Maybe a coat of oil?

Chairs look great Brian.


----------



## Mosquito

Shellac on the Moxon? Go for it. I have added drawer liner to the inside jaw on mine, as I didn't have any pieces of leather big enough for it at the time. That helps it grip with out having to crank down on it so hard. Otherwise, I've not had any finish on mine… Matches the workbench that way lol


----------



## ColonelTravis

OK, Moxon build on my list. Fridge, what are you using for the hardware?


----------



## bearkatwood

Mn am I glad it is Friday, I'm pooped. 
I got the two chairs glued up today and well on the way with the third, hopefully they will fall like dominoes over the next week and have all seven ready for finish by next friday. I have a tentative shipping date of the 23rd which I know will come soon.









I haven't done any dovetails in a while, but I am looking forward to making my moxon vise and trying it out.
Have a great weekend.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Shoot dang those chair look comfy.

Packing these babies up for delivery. 









Also finished up the puzzle board.


----------



## theoldfart

Oh yea, this one's done.



























So much for being a set of night stands, the wife claimed as a table in the living room!


----------



## bearkatwood

The table turned out perfect!
Where the chairs heading? They turned out great.


----------



## DanKrager

I double dog dare you to move the bed next to the table in the LR. After all, that's what you went to all that trouble for…

DanK


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks guys.

Hardware will be probably 3/4-6 acme rod with a nut welded on the end to make a handle. Would like to make a twin screw chain drive. All depends on what I can scavenge on the cheap. The bench on a bench concept is interesting but I don't think I'm going to go that route.


----------



## woodcox

Oh! Dan with the DDD. Lol.

That is a fine table Kevin, your design looks great on the floor. So night stands are next?


----------



## putty

Nice chairs Red, you customer is going to be very happy ! Is the puzzle board a bonus to go with the table and chairs?

Kevin, great job on the table, it is a piece of art.


----------



## putty

I found this online. I wouldn't want to move it!!


----------



## Lucasd2002

I love this thread. Very motivational as I really want to build my skill levels to 1/10 of much of what I see in here. The end-goal is to make high quality furniture for the family. I read the whole thing over the last few weeks. It inspired me to work on a shop project with my first real mortise and tenon joints. I am building a simple stool for sitting in the shop. My thought was to have a rectangular seat with through mortises from the four legs. I found inspiration in this project.

I started with wood that was already on hand. A couple pieces of 4/4 red oak laminated to make a rectangular seat and four legs laminated from 8/4 poplar.










I tried to pay attention to grain orientation and direction, which is not always something I remember. Pretty easy when the pieces come from the same board, I guess.










My first tenons are angled, which, based on my skill level, may have been a little optimistic. But, I only angled them in one direction so the legs are splayed toward the front rear, not laterally (6 degrees fore/aft, when sitting on the stool). So, it could have been worse.

All the tenons were cut on the table saw.










Then, I experimented with different methods for cutting the mortises. I tried some forsteners at the drill press (and chiseling out the remaining portions). I also experimented with making a template/guide for the router (to be used with a top-guide or top bearing bit).










Next, I started working on fitting the tenons into the mortises. As expected, I struggled a bit. Chisels, files, more chisels. I don't have a shoulder plane, which is something that may have helped. Not exactly a piston fit, but the first one shown fitted here, after I gave a little blood (these new LV chisels are sharp, even the side bevels).










I then repeated the process for the other three legs.










That's where things stand now. I need to plan on shaping the seat and legs and laying out the stretchers. Now, the legs are about 2.8" square. My first thought is to cut them down and then plan to figure out a taper down to the bottom. On the other hand, if I leave them 2.8" square, that would leave me more material to have a more dramatic taper down to the bottom. I also was thinking of have a more dramatic taper on the inner lateral faces of the legs to give the appearance of splayed legs in the lateral direction.

For the seat, I wanted to dish the upper surface in a similar pattern as the project linked in the first paragraph above with a relatively shallow dish from side-to-side, so the seat would not really have a "front" or "rear".


----------



## bearkatwood

Looking good so far, keep at it. That project stool looks a bit like the Rogowski stool, if you use sketchup at all here is the plan for it. Rogowski stool
I love the flitch couch, for a woodworker for sure.


----------



## boatz

JayT and ColonelTravis
This is my Moxon bench top bench. Saves the back


----------



## bearkatwood

Man that is sharp looking, nice boatz.


----------



## duckmilk

^ +1 very nice Boatz


----------



## derekcohen

I'm closing in on the end of my Lingerie Chest build. The following is the completion of the top section.










The obligatory dovetail picture. Note that all the drawers involve compound angles (curved sides and bow front), making for interesting dovetails! 










This is the top … book matched Makore sandwiched by breadboards …










So what lives under the lid of the top?










The lid is attached with heavy duty Brusso hinges which stop at 95 degrees. They hold up the heavy lid quite securely. To prevent the lid dropping (!) I have a brass stay - this I designed and built as I could not find anything suitable for sale (it needed to take up very little space) ..










Currently working on the final part of the Chest, a jewellery (top) drawer.

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## DanKrager

This is one beautiful chest and an outstanding example of patient, top of the line craftsmanship. Awesome.

DanK


----------



## jmartel

Outstanding, Derek.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Top notch Derek!


----------



## byerbyer

Gorgeous work, Derek!


----------



## bearkatwood

Absolutely beautiful workmanship. Thanks for sharing. Great details.


----------



## duckmilk

Well done Derek! Is that a commissioned job or for your wife?


----------



## derekcohen

Fortunately, I am in a position to build for fun, and this chest is for my wife. I doubt that I would last long as a pro. Just too hard.

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## leminhtien

removed


----------



## Lucasd2002

Incredible work Derek.

Nice Moxon, boat. I just started trying to use a Barron magnetic guide to train myself.



> Looking good so far, keep at it. That project stool looks a bit like the Rogowski stool, if you use sketchup at all here is the plan for it. Rogowski stool
> 
> - bearkatwood


Thanks for the link Brian. I had not seen that. I am leaning toward a straight taper for these legs, which means I will need to build a tapering jig for my TS, I think. I don't have a band saw at this time so the curves would probably be tough for me to attempt anyway.

Red, I really like your chairs and table. I had a question about the table - why did you orient the boards running laterally and not along the length of the table? Was it based on the available stock or for aesthetic reasons? Because you wanted the top to expand/contract along the length of the table? Or, some other reason? Thanks! [just trying to understand more about furniture design]


----------



## bearkatwood

Six glued up, one to go.


----------



## DanKrager

Lucas, in the spirit of being a true "enabler" here, those curves you are shying away from could be done by a Stanley #20 or a Stanley #113. Your association with this group tells me that deep down you want one… 

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Lucas, I did curves using a 113 for the first time recently. As long as the cutter is sharp it should work quite readily. I can doccument the process with pics if you'd like.


----------



## Lucasd2002

I can't argue with any of that well-reasoned logic, gentlemen (I.e., if it's a tool that I could possibly use, I DO want it).

Kevin, I would love to see or read an explanation of your process (whether I go down that road or not). If I remember correctly, didn't BRK have a 113 that he set aside for a spokeshave during the build of his outdoor table earlier in this thread? That doesn't bode well for someone of my skill level.

I was just thinking about the other day that the poplar legs for the stool seem like a great confidence builder for a smoother I was using.

If I look in the mirror, I will see that I have a #6 and a #8 that are disassembled for repair/restoration, 1.5 #45's that I have never touched, a garage full of stuff that I can't seem to get organized, and I still haven't built a real workbench yet. (Working 6 days a week along with a 3 year old and another on the way next month don't help, but it's not as if I'm the only one in this thread with kids)

The harsh reality is that I need to build skills and practice much more than I need more tools (and I love tools).

Sorry for venting.

I actually do have another project in mind (request from the Mrs) that would involve curves. Maybe I will post some questions about that tomorrow.


----------



## Imakenicefirewood

You guys are very inspiring and humbling as well.

My wife would like me to build a buffet similar to this Pottery Barn one, but she doesn't want it to be open underneath. (We have a large dog that sheds…a lot, and she doesn't want to have to clean under another piece of furniture.) Design is not my forte so I am asking for your opinions on how to accomplish this. My first thought was to just build it without any feet, but then it would look like it was missing something. Thanks.


----------



## jmartel

Firewood, I'd make it the same height, but add trim around the bottom so it gives it some depth. Looks like maybe 5-6" high straight trim would work. Similar to this:










That photo is from Ana White, who I despise, but the photo shows what I'm talking about clearly.


----------



## Iguana

Been working on a table for Mrs. K for a while, in between paying jobs and MustDos. Finally got the leg assemblies glued up:










At the rate this is going, it may be 2018 before I can post a complete table pic.


----------



## bearkatwood

Mark, that shop is way too clean 
Nice lines on the base, they draw your eye upwards. It is going to be fun watching this one.


----------



## rad457

Forgot to post this little sofa end table before, the bigger brother to the end table. 
Made from single plank of Walnut, dowel construction with OSMO finish and Fiddlers
paste wax.


----------



## CL810

Nice work Andre, love me some walnut.


----------



## bearkatwood

Nice work Andre, I always like a strip of sapwood down the middle of a tabletop, just my favorite.

I managed to get the first coat of finish on one of the chairs today, six more to go. Customers waiting. Hurry, hurry. 




























I carve in some facets to the top of the back legs for a little detail.


















Have a great night.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Very nice table Andre.

Brian - what kind of carving tools do you prefer. I have some Pfeil Palm and intermediate, and some full size Flexcut. I am not disappointed in the Flexcut, but plan to expand my larger tools and have been doing research on full size. I'm still undecided on which direction to go.

By the way, those chairs are awesome. I'm sure Old Fart will be happy with one sitting next to his new table.


----------



## theoldfart

Sure will. When can I expect delivery?


----------



## bearkatwood

I like the flexcut, that is about all I use, my wife uses UJRamelson and I would love to get some Lie-Nielsen gouges, but I am happy with flexcut for what I do.


----------



## rad457

Beautiful chairs Brian, them facets are like your personal fingerprints!


----------



## byerbyer

Beautiful chairs, Brian. Very snazzy!


----------



## bearkatwood

I actually got the idea for the facets from a Brian Boggs chair I saw, it was an older ladder-back and the front legs had it, kinda fun. Snazzy indeed


----------



## Imakenicefirewood

Thank you for that guidance jmart. The wife gives it a thumbs up.

Sorry for just now acknowledging your response. I've been helping family pour some concrete, and getting ready to replace the windows in our upstairs. Projects.


----------



## WhoMe

Lots of awesome work like usual on this thread. Brian, I really like the design of your chairs. I've been following the videos. The Arc design below the seat was something I toyed with in some sketches a while back. It's nice to see that design in real life.
What finish do you use on your chairs? It really brings out the beauty of the wood, especially the contrasting backs.
Red, your chair and table set are going to make them really happy.
Derek, that lingerie cabinet is just stellar. The design is amazing Andy the workmanship looks amazing.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Question for those of you who build furniture for sale:

Do you run your business as an LLC?

I'm curious to know, as I'm wondering if I should do that before getting started.

Thanks!


----------



## DanKrager

Dean, I've done woodworking as a business in New York state and Illinois. In NY I went through the trouble of setting up a corporation. When I moved back to IL it became a sole proprietorship. I went that route when I learned that no matter how one sets up a business, personal liability is still present. My NY corp didn't protect me as I thought I had been protected. Just about any effort to shield one's personal assets is wasted time and money. I even went to the trouble to research what I thought was a clever arrangement where two corporations were involved: one operated the business and the other held the assets. For a small woodworker the expense was enormous and the time to do all the required record keeping was significant. One person cannot be all the officers required. One lawyer may tell you that LLC is the way to go while another shoots it down as worthless. So, I've just kept my head low and been very careful about who I do business with…much easier in the midwest. One's street smarts get honed quite well this way because it's worth paying attention. If I can't convince myself the customer has integrity, we just don't do business. Once I've found a customer with integrity, then I communicate almost constantly to be sure there are no surprises. It's just a tricky road to pass through. Good luck.
Got a sizable commission coming up with a complete stranger that I worried about at first because of delays, but early communications are making things look better so far. If they meet my terms I'm not going to hurt if they cancel. My deals are simple and clear. I make sure the customer is satisfied all along. So far so good. 
In short, there is no amount of paperwork you can hide behind for protection. The theory looks really good on paper, but we know that in theory there is no difference between theory and reality, but in reality there is.
DanK


----------



## dbray45

Dan is spot on -
I had a business for 13 years. Picking your customers is 90% of the equation. If they are not credible, your problems go through the roof.


----------



## bearkatwood

agreed.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Thanks Dan, David, and Brian.

Though I think it would be kind of like being naked in the wind, without some sort of protection, however thin.

I can imagine a joint failing, or a kid eating something he shouldn't, and losing house, savings, and livelihood, because we live in a litigious society these days. I'd just be concerned about not having any sort of protection.

I suppose you would also have liability insurance, but I wonder how expensive that is?


----------



## duckmilk

Hi Dean, I was doing work (not woodworking related) for a company a few years back as an independent contractor. At one point, they required all of us contractors to file set up an S corp or LLC, our choice. The purpose wasn't to give us contractors protection, but to protect the company against our mistakes should we make one. So, if you are worried about liability, maybe you should consider insurance, but I have no idea what that might cost.

On the tax side: I went with LLC because it would require less paperwork and record keeping. A couple of years later, my accountant suggested I file IRS form 2553 which allowed me to be taxed as an S corp without actually changing from a LLC. This saves me some FICA taxes.


----------



## BHolcombe

Sorry for not making a more regular appearance in this forum, you guys are doing beautiful work as always.

I'm currently building whats called a 'Butler's Desk' in Black Walnut and blogging about the process here;

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/06/11/the-butlers-desk-casework-part-4/

Currently I'm building the case, if you would like to see the project from the start please click here;

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/05/07/the-butlers-desk/










[/img]

Dovetails before glue-up/trimming


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Enjoyed all the great posts coming back from vacation. I got that dining set delivered to CO in a uhaul trailer. 









Then my aunt and uncle hosted their first dinner on it. 









Now I'm gonna finish those cherry night stands, and start on some bookshelves for the wifey.


----------



## bearkatwood

Congrats Red, I know how a successful delivery can bring a smile. Nice work,
and beautiful craftsmanship there BHolcombe
I wrenched my back yesterday so I am being the executive today by laying around in my lounge chair with tiger balm and a heating pad on editing my second video for the chairs.
They are impatiently waiting for me to return. 









I did get a little done this morning. I was making some decisions on the upholstery. The client has chosen the fabric, but I was playing around with the padding. The thinner pad just didn't have enough for my butt  so I was experimenting with a larger one, but it looks too bulky. So I am going to go to the store later this week and get a higher density foam the same thickness as the thinner one.









I hate my back! ;( Too many years of construction and beating myself to a pulp for the almighty buck. Of course that was about 16 years ago… you think it would be better by now. I have a compressed disk in my upper back that loves to flair up from time to time, turns me into a right grump.
They are turning out nice though.








Looking forward to being done with them and moving on to the library set.


----------



## BHolcombe

Nice chairs, both of you!

Bearkat, I've been following your videos as well.

I think you're going the right direction with the thinner pads.


----------



## jmartel

Brian,

Do you run your business off of your own property? Or do you have a commercial shop? Just curious.


----------



## bearkatwood

My shop is the detached, over-sized two car garage next to my house. We built a 20'x24' pole barn to store all the surplus wood. I hope for a big-boy shop someday. It might force to to have a real work schedule. It is too easy for me to get bored and go out there at odd times, which can annoy the family, but I think it is great of course. The part that sucks is that there is no bathroom in the shop so I drink too much coffee and then have to run inside the house, then I notice the dishes haven't been run and well, yeah. You get the idea.


----------



## jmartel

Fair enough. I've given it a bit of thought to go out on my own in a few years. Just trying to figure out zoning restrictions and big picture stuff. I believe a 1-man custom shop can get away with it being zoned as an artist's studio, so it can be done in residential areas. Not 100% committed to it yet, but it's definitely an option I'm looking into.

But I'm planning on moving later this year, and want to factor the above into my purchasing decision to give myself the option to start a business if I choose to do so later.

And if I build a shop, it will be getting a bathroom. If I get a place that already has one, then I'm at the mercy of the person who built it already.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Brian, wish it weren't so…but my back is the thorn in my flesh as well. Maddening.

Check this dining set our friends had. They got it at a furniture mart, and said it was "rubber wood". Not familiar with that. Also said it was the offcuts of something they used for instruments. kinda looks like cocobolo….but not quite. Darn stuff has me stumped.



















Edit: pretty sure it's Indian Rosewood. Baffled they can make that table so cheap. 
https://www.afwonline.com/furniture/dining-room/formal-dining/dining-room-sets/natural-5-piece-dining-t-4004-5pc


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## bearkatwood

That's sheesham wood. Cool stuff. I wish I could get my hands on some of the lumber, almost impossible. Most of the furnishings they make with it are O.K. quality, but it would look great if it was a bit better made.
Sheesham wikipidia
It is so cheap because they are paying those that make it just pennies.


----------



## guillo

Grandes trabajos loco


----------



## CL810

Brian and Red, the dining sets are compelling.

BrianH, I just got lost for an hour in your blog. Great stuff there.


----------



## BHolcombe

Thank you! Glad to hear you are enjoying!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> That s sheesham wood. Cool stuff. I wish I could get my hands on some of the lumber, almost impossible. Most of the furnishings they make with it are O.K. quality, but it would look great if it was a bit better made.
> Sheesham wikipidia
> It is so cheap because they are paying those that make it just pennies.
> 
> - bearkatwood


Ya, I guess they harvest that choice stuff for instruments, and pitch the rest. Glad someone is putting it to use….. but you know it's slave labor;-(

+1 to wishing we had a way to purchase that wood here.


----------



## bearkatwood

ditto.


----------



## BHolcombe

Good morning! I decided to move these up from Saturdays to Thursdays. My latest post on building the sliding doors which will hide but allow access to wiring that will run behind a shelf for storing electronics.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/06/16/the-butlers-desk-hikido/

Click the above link to see all of the photos, explanation and video.


----------



## putty

Nice work BH, that is going to be a beautiful piece. Keep the pictures coming!


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks Putty! It is a lot of work, especially by hand but I'm happy with the results so far, I think it will be a nice cabinet to use.


----------



## bearkatwood

Nice work Brian, I like that series that you are posting.
I managed to get the chairs all finished and I have so much video I will probably have to break it into thirds. My computer can't keep up with all the clips and is filling up fast and I still have yet to build the crate and do the upholstery. I have been trying to save my shillings for a minimac to use just for video, but shillings don't go as far as they used to. 
Here is how the frames look. They will get corner blocks early next week and the feet leveled and all that jazz. Hoping to have them out the door by next Friday.


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks Brian! Those are looking sharp!


----------



## woodcox

Brian those backs look like great form and cofortable. Nice.

Only about three years in since buying the tapered mortice tools. They actually may see action. Walnut. The last of it. 









Maybe a two toned rorkhee? I have a heavy hickory board I'd like to lighten up. Turned hickory stretchers could be different with the through tenons.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Dig it. I should ask the railroad for a sabbatical so I can make all things Schwarz.


----------



## TheFridge

Knobs and screws for moxon. kinda just have to make it work cheaply. 3/4-6 acme rod and nuts. Looks a lot longer than it is and the knobs look a lot smaller than they are. Only 9" for a 4-1/4"ish clamping capacity and the knobs are just small enough to wrap my hand around good. I cut channels on 4 sides of the nut (to create more of a shear hold than just a captive nut), drilled through the the nut and rod, drove a 5/16 pin into it and peened it, then some JB weld to see how it holds up. Gonna put a medallion in the center of the knobs. Just don't know what yet. Lotta work to do.


----------



## bearkatwood

I quite like the look of the knobs. The usual moxon vise hardware kits have such clunky looking wheels. Nice work. Nice curl on that last shot.


----------



## woodcox

Nice fridge. Check Jenny Bower's work. She does a lot of really nice medallions and custom work. How tall are your chops?


----------



## TheFridge

Some solid work goin on out there

Acme isn't as coarse as wood thread so it should torque down easily. I just turned them until they were as large as I could comfortably grip.

The pics don't do the curl justice. It's curly bordering on quilted. I can NOT wait for some shellac.

Will do cox. I'll probably make some medallions out of some Amboyna burl or some figured walnut or what not. Maybe brass. I'm gonna play with it. Chops are 4-1/2" tall by 1-3/4" thick with 26" between the screws.


----------



## TheFridge

I have to turn something to hold the back nut captive. Glue it. Then finish it.


----------



## TheFridge




----------



## TheFridge

Wasn't planning on a lambs tongue but I figured what the hell. I'll give it a shot. Still have to smooth it out.


----------



## Sunstealer73

Those of you cutting dovetails, do you (or did you) use one of the magnetic saw guides? I know the Barron one is most popular, but I got a cheaper one from a guy who has a YouTube channel. I went from terrible dovetails to decent ones in just a couple of days. They're not on the level of some I've seen in this thread, but no longer embarrassing to show either. I'm expecting a better dovetail saw in the mail today along with one of the Knew fretsaws.


----------



## bearkatwood

Nice work on the lambs tongue.


----------



## jmartel

I use a magnetic guide from David Barron. Helps quite a bit. But my work isn't up to the same standards as most on here.


----------



## JayT

I use a Barron guide, as well. I could make some pretty decent dovetails without it at this point, but the time savings from not having to mark as much is worth it by itself. Add in the fact it helps save me from an occasional brain spasm and it's been a great investment.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks BK

Sun, i mainly practiced cutting to a line on scraps. I found it helped me with all my other hand cut joints as well. Just a few minutes a day for awhile is all I did until I was confident. I'd say use the guides for projects now and practice cutting to a line for projects down the road.

Just my opinion.


----------



## rad457

Has anyone used the Veritas® Dovetail Saw Guide System?


----------



## SpartyOn

I have used the Veritas dovetail guide. It has greatly improved my dovetailing but I've never used the David Barron guide so I can't compare. However, like TheFridge says, I need to practice freehand everyday so I can build enough confidence not to use the guide at all.


----------



## bearkatwood

They are done and shipping out Friday.. Yahoo!! Very happy. Another job done.



















Time to move on to the library set.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sunstealer- many of us here are fans of Barron's DT guide. Perfect aid for the hobbyist to get pro results.

Brian- the chairs are stellar. There is a part of me that wishes they had walnut sculpted seats, but I realize that's what the buyer wanted.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Beautiful chairs, Brian-you should be very proud of these!


----------



## BHolcombe

Nice work Brian, good choice on the fabric as well.


----------



## bearkatwood

Not my choice, I think I would have gone with dark brown leather or just a wood seat. They did turn out nice though and man are they comfy. I spent most of my afternoon sitting in them. Thanks for the kind words.


----------



## jmartel

Very nice, Brian. One of these days I'll have to give building a chair a go.


----------



## bearkatwood

I kept trying to get good pictures of the chairs that would show just how curly the maple ans cherry were, but my camera is kind of crappy, but hey it is supposedly dust proof. Anyways, here are a few shots with the flash on that somewhat captured the curl.


----------



## TheFridge

The chair back slats are blinging BK. Leathery and darkish upholstery would've been easier on my eyes. Some wicked chairs bud.

Edit: the curly slats are my favorite parts.


----------



## ArlinEastman

Big Red give me a PM when you get the chance please. I sent you a few PMs. Thanks buddy


----------



## ColonelTravis

Awesome stuff all around. I agree about preferring a darker chair seat but what the hell, they came out nice and I'm sure the customer will be thrilled.


----------



## bearkatwood

I hope so. Thanks. Not enough hours in the day to tackle all the plans I would like to build. I get done building for other people and then the hobby kicks in and I try to make something for myself. I try to keep bakers hours, not bankers hours. I am usually up and brewing coffee by 4am and getting the shop running by 5 after writing silly things like this. In fact it is 4:53. Better get a move on. Big ideas coming down the pipe. I have stopped taking commissions on furniture. I still have quite a few saw orders to fill. I am hoping to build up a stockpile of junk to start my own gallery so I don't have to pay the 35%-50% some of these galleries charge. Thankfully this chair order was thru custommade.com which is where most of my biz comes from along with word of mouth. This september the Oregon coast woodworkers get back together. I was fortunate enough to meet them just before they disbanded for the summer and they have an arrangement with our county art museum to put on a show. I have a free standing cabinet in mind with stained glass, steam bent legs and some of my carving like the saw till. Should be something fun to see. Can't wait. Well I have to go wax the chairs down and build a crate today. I hope you all have a wonderful day, be safe and have fun woodworking if you get a chance.


----------



## BHolcombe

Glad to hear that Custommade is worthwhile, I looked at other online sites like that and was fairly underwhelmed. I do commission work, but when you venture out on your own it becomes difficult to do all of the work and all of the sales. I'm considering galleries, but a 50% cut is difficult to swallow, I do appreciate that they are taking alot of risk by owning and running a gallery (rent is not cheap!).

Sounds like things are going very well, so that is good news for someone like me who hopes to do the same.

speaking of which, here is my latest;

The cabinet back panels are now completed and installed into the Butler's desk. If any were wondering my reasoning behind having fully blind dados to hold the web frames, it should now be apparent, at least, in terms of aesthetics. Having the web frames installed into blind dados allowed me to retain full thickness of the outside carcass in the view from the back of the case.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/06/23/the-butlers-desk-cabinet-back/

^^Click the above link for the full essay


----------



## TheFridge

Still have a ways to go before I get everything where I want it but the lambs tongue came out well.


----------



## jmartel

So when you cut a lambs tongue like that, how do you do the center flat? Saw kerf the center portion and then use a chisel to get it out? Then level as much as you can with a plane/chisel/float?


----------



## TheFridge

Yes. I made a bunch of saw 1/2"-3/4" apart and chiseled out the waste. I stopped short of the line (1/16-1/8) to be safe when chiseling out waste. I still had some spots tearout that made me nervous but it barely worked out.

Spokeshaves it close to the line. Skew rabbet block for the corners. spokeshaved to line. Used a block plane to even things out where possible because there was a slight crown. Clean up corners with a chisel.

Then fret saw, chisel, rasp and files for the lambs tongue. And I found out ink still smears when dry. I really didn't know what to expect from this experiment but it came out pretty good I think.

Any know if a cigar shave would be good for tight inside curves like this? How hard is it to control?

Chop with the first of a couple shellackings.


----------



## CFrye

I think I'd shed a tear, with the first errant chisel ding. That is one gorgeous chop, Fridge.


----------



## DanKrager

+1 ^ .

Period.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Gonna be a sweet vise Fridge.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks y'all. There is one chisel ding already  I blended it in well with a scraper.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice job Fridge. I'm gonna tinker with my moxon today. Occurred to me that I haven't cut a dovetail in over a year. Sad. More reason to use a guide.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks bud. I've seen a veritas set but have never seen the Barron set. Are they as easy to use as they sound?


----------



## jmartel

Yes. Quite easy to use. But if you have no trouble with dovetails without using a guide, there's no real reason to buy one.


----------



## TheFridge

Just wondering. It sounds awesome to be able to mark a baseline and space them then rip. Sounds fast. I'm always in a hurry and that's usually when I start gapping ******************** up.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Fridge, I started with Schwarz DT method- marking every dang thing. The guide cuts the time by at least a third. As Melissa Etheridge once said, "I, oh I, will never be the same." lawlz.

In the summertime, when the finish sprays so fine, you got cherry, you got cherry, curly cherry on your mind.


----------



## TheFridge

Well, I have some veritas dovetail markers I haven't really put to use yet. That's about the best I can do for now I guess.

Well Red, your always welcome to come to my window…


----------



## bearkatwood

Looks awesome Fridge.


----------



## Sunstealer73

I'm getting much better with my dovetails since getting a guide. I get them good and tight on the sides, but they don't seem to seat all the way, so I get small gaps at the base of the pins and tails (mostly on the pin side). What causes that?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Need a pic to diagnose Sunstealer.


----------



## Sunstealer73

I'll be back at my shop next week and post some pics, thanks.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ok. My first guess is your chisel technique, but pics help.

Enjoyed chopping some today.


----------



## CL810

If it is chisel technique a paring jig will help tremendously.


----------



## bearkatwood

Nice jig.


----------



## DanKrager

CL810, you've been to my shop? That's exactly what I do for paring and chopping. Works great! In fact, what I'm actually using is a prototype of a complex new jig that I've designed over some time now. I hinted at it a long time ago, but the pieces of it's functions have all been tested and true, and will lend themselves to both hand and power tool work. Pardon me while I get excited about that much functionality in such a small space….

DanK

Edit: Can't. Resist. Re: gaps….there's just not enough wood, so a gap results! ( I know…nobody likes a smartass)


----------



## CL810

I've snuck in a number of times while you were away. Pics and copious notes have improved my game greatly!!



> CL810, you ve been to my shop?
> 
> - Dan Krager


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Paring jig. Pffffftt. That's like training wheels for chiselers.


----------



## bearkatwood

When you only ride a bike once a year, hey. Training wheels prevent bruised elbows.


----------



## CL810

Saw guides. Pfffft. ;-)



> Paring jig. Pffffftt. That s like training wheels for chiselers.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


----------



## TheFridge

So. French polishing questions.

What do you typically use to make a pad? Fine cotton shirt or t shirt good for the outside? What about the filler? I'm assuming cotton for everything?

I'm using part of an old button up cotton shirt and coarse gauze for the filler. Should I suck it up and get some better wrap/padding?

Any help is much appreciated.


----------



## CL810

Two layers of cheesecloth for the outside and wool for the stuffing. Old acrylic sweater material can work instead of wool.


----------



## widdle

Yep. Time to part with the turtleneck sweater fridge…


----------



## Hammerthumb

I normally use linen bed sheet material for the outside. Always wool for the inside. Never apply shellac to the outside of th pad. Only the inside. Only use enough polish to barely dampen the back of your hand when you tap the pad on it. Most problems occur when trying to get a build to fast (too much polish). When you start to get the build you want, start charging the pad to more alcohol and less shellac. If the pad starts to stick, dab a little mineral oil onto the wood.

Patrice LeJune has a video blog on French polish. Highly recommended.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'm not sure I have the patience for french polishing. Must be for ol' timers….but that's what used to think about dovetails.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I like French polish cause it's easy to fix mistakes. I does take some patience as it takes several sessions to get a good build. It's not as easy as just spraying or brushing shellac, but the application does have a different appearance then those methods. It is well worth it on the right piece. The application will give you a workout though.


----------



## TheFridge

Awesome stuff

Will do do CL

Cut up my turtleneck? you can have my firstborn but you can can't have my turtleneck…

Probably gonna hit up Amazon for wool and cheesecloth since I have a credit but I'd rather use something proven even if I have to order elsewhere. Where do y'all get your stuff from?

Yes Paul I've seen some of your comments on French polishing (something like going over it 3 times over 3 days?) and have watched Patrice's video. I think it helped me get off to good start. I can get a good consistent gloss finish relatively easy but not a mirror finish. When I first got the shellac I layered it then charged a pad with just a small amount of dna.

I find I have to put a touch of BLO to the pad just about every time I start a new layer. Probably has more to do with my pad. It's pretty sticky no matter the charge it seems.

Thanks for the help fellas


----------



## Hammerthumb

Fridge, don't apply oil to the pad, apply to the wood. Also, I would not use BLO. I use mineral oil, but I know some that use olive oil.

The pad will get sticky when you get to the point of stretching the finish. This is where you need to monitor the pads saturation. It should have mostly DNA, and very little shellac. The pad should be mostly dry at this point also. A lot of pressure and very rapid strokes with the grain. Patrice demonstrates this in his video like an airplane landing and taking off.

As with anything, practice. Hope some of this info helps.

Also, Homestead Finishing is a good source for flakes. Don't try to use the canned stuff. Although some prefer de-waxed for French polish, I have better luck with waxed.


----------



## TheFridge

Got it. Will pick up some mineral oil.

I think it has more to do with my pad sticking. It hardly ever slides relatively easy.

Got me some flakes from wellermart off amazon.

Using 2 lb cut from start to finish so far. About to make a 3 lb so I can dilute it if necessary.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I start with a 2lb cut. First application in the pad is 50% shellac, 50% dna.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Forgot to ask, how are you doing pore filling?


----------



## TheFridge

I'm slacking on that because I'm unsure of it. I have some behlens 4Fine pumice. I saw how Patrice did it but I'm not sure how far to take it.

Edit: I found out that even maple could use a bit of filling. Especially with figure. Short term solution was to scrape it down and build back up. I'd much rather do it properly. Need to play around with pore filling more.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I usually body up a couple of sessions and then tap out some pumice. The pumice will sand and pack the pores with the wood fibers. I keep doing this until I see no pores with a raking light.

This works well on wood with small pores like cherry, maple, and even walnut. I have used ceramic filler on oak though, prior to any shellac application. Large pore woods I feel benefit from pre-filling.

One other note, I keep pads in 2 seperate pickle jars. One for shellac application and one for pore filling.


----------



## rad457

Have been following this thread, but after the last 6 or 7 entries I had to hit the unfollow! like really it's Shellac, make a pad with some lint free fabric and rub it on?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Sorry Andre.

This is why I don't comment much.

I'll shut up now.


----------



## CL810

Well Andre, if that's all you do for a french polish finish, I'd love to understand your secret. Do you have some pics of a piece you applied a French polish finish to? Please do share your methods and successes that defy finishing experts.

Paul, you have no reason to apologize or to shut up.


----------



## WhoMe

But a French polish IS part of furniture making and not everyone has the same ability as others (it seems) so please keep posting. I know I'M learning something and that is what this forum is about. 
No one here should be apologizing for anything. Following or unfollowing a thread is always the readers choice and no one should get a shellacing  for their questions either because a follower doesn't like the current topic.

That being said, I'm not sure I have the patience for a French polish finish on anything, yet. Unless a French maid is doing it  . But at least I have more information to do it better if I do. Thank you Fridge for bringing up the topic.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

+1 to what Andy said. I was learning too. A look at the pics of Paul's projects attest he's got something he could teach most of us about finishing.

Exibit A:


----------



## CL810

And for the win…. (Paul drops pad to floor, turns, and exits stage left)


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks hammer and everyone else. I do keep separate jars. I'll have to check out the ceramic filler as well For large pored stuff. 


> Exibit A:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


This is exactly what I'm looking for. I'm close but not there yet. Thanks for the help Paul and CL. Much appreciated.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Lawlz Andy.

I actually used lacquer on the night stands. Mostly because DanK pressured me That stuff sure is easier to spray/apply than poly. I've got some bookshelf builds coming up. Might use some lac on those too. They don't take the beating a dining set does.


----------



## TheFridge

I'd like to use French polishing for small stuff and as a sealer/ pore filler on table tops and whatnot to use under poly.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Yup, I should say, I sealed the cherry nightstands with sealcoat first.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

For half-blind DTs, I only use the Barron guide for the tails, then I freehand the pins. Here's a little technique that helps me a lot. I make a little starting kerf with a chisel. But! I flip the chisel so that the bevel is always pushing in on the waste side. This helps me get the saw started one the waste side of the line nearly every time.


----------



## widdle

Why do you like the aluminum guides more than the guides you made ? I use the one you made and works good…


----------



## ColonelTravis

Fridge, awesome job. Sorry but I'm not thinking really well - what part did you use the spokeshave on? The lambs tongue itself?


----------



## bearkatwood

Hey Red is that a semi-demi-lune


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks CT, the chamfer only. I spokeshaved down to the line I marked on each side and finished up what I could with a block plane after that to knock down any crowning.

Edit: i tried knife walls on DTs and it didn't work as well as I'd hoped. Only tried it once or twice so that probably has something to do with it.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I finally finished carving the flutes on the legs. The flutes taper from 5/8 to 3/8. The grain on Afican mahogany sometimes does not want to cooperate.










Hey Red, have you ever tried cutting the tails with a jig on a bandsaw? Or are you one of those "pins first" guys?



> And for the win…. (Paul drops pad to floor, turns, and exits stage left)
> 
> - CL810


That's funny Andy!


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> For half-blind DTs, I only use the Barron guide for the tails, then I freehand the pins. Here s a little technique that helps me a lot. I make a little starting kerf with a chisel. But! I flip the chisel so that the bevel is always pushing in on the waste side. This helps me get the saw started one the waste side of the line nearly every time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Handy trick, thanks ;-)


----------



## bearkatwood

Some amazing stuff being thrown down there. Nice work all.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Why do you like the aluminum guides more than the guides you made ? I use the one you made and works good…
> 
> - widdle


I picked up the real deal just because I met Barron at Handworks. My shopmade are decent, but his aluminum ones take it up anther notch in precision. The magnets, slip tape, and grippy sandpaper are all well thought out.



> I finally finished carving the flutes on the legs. The flutes taper from 5/8 to 3/8. The grain on Afican mahogany sometimes does not want to cooperate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Red, have you ever tried cutting the tails with a jig on a bandsaw? Or are you one of those "pins first" guys?
> 
> - Hammerthumb


Dang Paul. Is that another Mic drop with those legs? Stellar.

I haven't tried the ol' bandsaw method yet. But, if ever make a bunch of DT drawers for a dresser or something….I'm sure I will.


----------



## TheFridge

He does have some nice legs…


----------



## bearkatwood

Those are nice. We have legs and some nice lambs tongues with a chop, like we are reconstructing a whole sheep here.


----------



## JayT

Nice legs, Paul. You are really going top shelf for this table.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks guys.

Need to add the bubinga ovals with the brass Fleur de Lis into the corner blocks and then the legs will be done. Then I can start the aprons and top.

It's been very hot here, and around 4pm my ac unit cant keep up. I guess that's as good an excuse as I can come up with for being so slow.


----------



## TheFridge

Hammer, I'd like to hear about how you are going to inlay that fleur de lis if you feel like sharing. I succeeded with one you gave me. I ended up having to make a chisel out of a jewelers screwdriver.

On a side note fellers, changing the wrap to cheesecloth made a big difference this session. Happy happy happy.

Thanks again.


----------



## PPK

Well, these are nothing nearly as cool as Brian's chairs, but they ARE my first attempt, so that should count for something, no?









I tried to link to "My Projects," Don't know if it'll work…
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/254274


----------



## bearkatwood

Those blow my first attempt out of the water, excellent work. My first chair was made from some scrap 2×6's that I used to make my son's bed. It lasted up until I sat in it. I fell on my butt and had to learn more about this woodworking thingy… still learnin'
I really enjoy your chairs, the clean look to them is nice. The coloring in the seat and headrest is artful and the different colored back slats give the chair a little pop. Very nice work, they look very comfortable too.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice chairs PPK. Brian is the resident chair expert, and I have to agree with him. Nice work. Is that first in a set, or is there a reason for only 3?

I'll let you know how it goes Fridge. I use small carving tools. I'll start them this coming weekend so I'll try to get some pics.
Did you change to using mineral oil also, or did just the change to cheese cloth work?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Looking good PPK. Looking good. My first chair was sturdy….but ugly. Those look pretty good.

Yesterday I got to spend some time and tenderness with the DT chisel Paul made me:









First DT in over a year. I still got it boys. It's hard work bein a big, red, pimp.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice Red! That Cocobolo has aged well!


----------



## TheFridge

Haven't picked up any mineral oil yet. I'm still using blo for the moment but in a much smaller amount.

doing the inlay was interesting. Something new.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Fridge - notice the dovetail chisel Red has. It has Valyrian steel.


----------



## TheFridge

Is it pre or post doom valyrian steel? Apparently it's makes a difference to some collectors


----------



## Hammerthumb

Post doom. Much more rare.


----------



## TheFridge

I like how it sits proud a bit so I'm leaving it so. Plus it hides so tiny boo boos better


----------



## Hammerthumb

I like it Fridge!


----------



## bearkatwood

me too!


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks guys! It's coming along.


----------



## Pezking7p

MMMMMMmmmmm, that's a big chop, fridge. moxon?

Red, those DTs are tight. Question, how do you cut the outside pins when doing half blinds? I have trouble getting my DT guide to sit on the board. I've tried using an extra board in the vise to support the end of the DT guide, but it's difficult to get both boards to line up perfectly flush. Please help a brother out. I made a few gaps last time I would have liked not to have because of this.


----------



## jmartel

Flip the guide around and cut it from the front side. It's a little more awkward, but it works out ok.


----------



## TheFridge

pez, yessir it is


----------



## Pezking7p

> Flip the guide around and cut it from the front side. It s a little more awkward, but it works out ok.
> 
> - jmartel


That's what I did this time. My guide doesn't allow me to cut very deep doing this because the fence on my guide is kind of long (maybe I should shorten it?) and the saw back hits it. But really, when I do this for some reason I cut about a half a kerf into my mark, and I end up with a 0.012 gap! I guess practice makes perfect. I was just wondering if there was a magic bullet. I think 3 of my last 8 half blinds had gaps in that location, and 1 of them was pretty unsightly.

Anyway, half blinds are like torture. I don't know why I do them!


----------



## Pezking7p

> pez, yessir it is
> 
> - TheFridge


Just send it up my way. I see one of those goofs and I don't want you to suffer looking at it every day. Best to start over from scratch.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> MMMMMMmmmmm, that s a big chop, fridge. moxon?
> 
> Red, those DTs are tight. Question, how do you cut the outside pins when doing half blinds? I have trouble getting my DT guide to sit on the board. I ve tried using an extra board in the vise to support the end of the DT guide, but it s difficult to get both boards to line up perfectly flush. Please help a brother out. I made a few gaps last time I would have liked not to have because of this.
> 
> - Pezking7p


Janswer has me confused. I don't use the guide for Pins on half blinds, just the tails. I cut the pins freehand…at an angle. Just get better results that way. Does that help Pez?


----------



## TheFridge

> pez, yessir it is
> 
> - TheFridge
> 
> Just send it up my way. I see one of those goofs and I don t want you to suffer looking at it every day. Best to start over from scratch.
> 
> - Pezking7p


I couldn't burden you like that. I think I'll just burn it.


----------



## bearkatwood

I just put out my second of three videos on those dining chairs.
enjoy.




View on YouTube


----------



## Pezking7p

Red, I dont think my freehand skills are up to par for that yet, but it's worth a shot. Notches in the corners would definitely help. Can't learn if you don't try. Now if only I could get my time per half blind down to an hour instead of two.

Fridge, at least you'll be warm even if your vise chop is ugly.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^It's not too tough Pez. I prefer a fine toothed saw….and I really just watch top knife line, to make sure I'm sawing at or inside it. If your kerf isn't exactly vertical, you can correct it chiseling. Hidden anyway.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dig the video Brian. Notice you have a lot more excess glue that I usually do. Are you using anything special to clean it up? (magic green bottle).


----------



## bearkatwood

Pure malt liquor  nope just distilled water on a rag. I use a bbq skewer to get it in to the corners and clean out the excess. I like to drown the thing in glue and clean up the mess. I don't want to ever question the joint not having enough.


----------



## Sunstealer73

Here's my last dovetails. This is due to be my alignment board like Barron uses in his videos. The pin towards the right had a gap on one side, but that piece was a little punky and didn't chisel cleanly. The problem I'm having is the gaps at the baseline. They have some glue/sawdust in them in these shots which makes them not as noticeable. Am I scribing too deep or something else? I would be fine with these on drawers, but definitely not for casework.


----------



## TheFridge

how do they come together sun? Easy or hard? Hand or mallet?


----------



## Sunstealer73

Easily go together so far.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sun, I've had that problem in the past. Your chisel work must be traveling a bit past your baseline. Common problem. If you are to place the chisel right in your scribed baseline and whack it…. the "wedge shape" will actually cause the chisel to drive back toward the baseline a bit - compressing the wood fibers.

If I'm correct, the solution is to sneak up on the baseline. Schwarz advises to keep dividing the waste in half when chopping. By the time you get to the baseline….your just paring away a thin shaving.

Hope that helps. I have some other chiseling techniques that expedite, but those would probably confuse you for now.


----------



## TheFridge

I undercut the baseline a hair as well. And beat the hell out of it with a rubber mallet till it bends to my will.


----------



## TheFridge

Getting closer. Still another polishing session on the body and handwheels. Need to figure out a way to make a jig to even out the handwheels where it contacts the chop. It slipped a bit while epoxy ing it together.


----------



## BHolcombe

Good morning! Now that the case is complete, I've been building the drawers. These are 'Piston Fit' Drawers, fitting tightly to the case. In a deviation from previous builds I've broken up with plywood drawer bottoms and used QS white 
oak.

Since you guys are on the topic of dovetails here, this should have a lot of relevance. I don't do jigs, fixtures, guides, ect. I dont criticize those who do, I just find them a hinderance, I make more accurate baselines after dumping the fixtures.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/06/30/the-butlers-desk-drawer-building/

*Click the above link to see the full story*


----------



## Hammerthumb

Polish is starting to shine there Fridge!

Impressive build BrianH. My only question is about the carpet under the bench. ??


----------



## jmartel

You should see his planing robe and slippers then, Paul.


----------



## Sunstealer73

Thanks guys for the tips. I'm off until Tuesday and see lots of dovetails over the next few days. I'm going to make a few boxes with them to make it more interesting than just making corners that go nowhere.


----------



## Hammerthumb

> You should see his planing robe and slippers then, Paul.
> 
> - jmartel


That's ok. I wear a dinner jacket and tennis shoes while chopping mortises.


----------



## CM_2016

All I can say about the joinery builds I have seen is: WOW. You all make the original master joiners from the 18th and 19th centuries look like fools.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks Paul, the fleur de lis sets it off.

I figured out that while it isn't as grabby and its builds easier with the cheesecloth (from lowes) that it left bad streaks. Had to go back to what I previously used. I'm gonna knock it back down to a satin most likely and I'll just practice getting a mirror polish on something else. Still not doing to well at pore filling but I guess practice makes perfect.



> All I can say about the joinery builds I have seen is: WOW. You all make the original master joiners from the 18th and 19th centuries look like fools.
> 
> - CM_2016


I think most would take this a compliment but I don't know if we have anything on the old timers.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Really need to get the mineral oil Fridge. The BLO is sticky, and the mineral oil will make a big difference.

Agree about the old timers. They did a lot more with a lot less.


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks for the comments guys.

Paul, that's just how I do.

I've seen some really incredible 18th century work, so I think I still have quite a hill to climb in that respect.


----------



## TheFridge

Cross post

Done.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Oh so nice!


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks bud. I try to challenge myself and every now and again it comes out good.

Thanks for all your help as well. The fleur de lis is like the rug that really ties the room together.


----------



## Sunstealer73

Thanks for all the dovetail tips. I was much more careful with my chiseling on the box I'm making. I also made sure the saw was in the waste side when sawing the pins. I haven't decided if pine is easier or harder to dovetail than the cherry and oak I've been using. It is much harder to chisel cleanly, but easier to saw and I think the softness helps with assembly. I'm going to build something similar with cherry next.


----------



## BHolcombe

I consider softwoods fairly difficult, they do compress, which is nice and difficult all at the same time and the distinct winter growth makes chopping cleanly much more difficult.


----------



## DanKrager

This is why I keep two sets of chisels…one sharpened at 30° for hardwood durability and one set at 25° for softwood crispness. It surprised me how much easier and cleaner 25° well honed cuts soft woods. Almost no mallet required, especially for paring.

Just doing some enabling….

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Ok Dan, youv'e enabled, now send me the 25 degree chisels


----------



## CL810

Beautiful bench Fridge.

Nice DTs Sunstealer.

Dave Barron posted 4 new videos and one is on half blind DTs.


----------



## jmartel

Saw this on Reddit and had to share. Awesome coffee table.

https://www.jessechapo.com/posts/lets-build-a-coffee-table.html


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks CL


----------



## BHolcombe

Good morning! The main desk drawer on the butler's desk is now completed. You may notice a departure in how this drawer is made from the typical, being that I have through tenons at the back of the drawer and extensions on the sides.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/07/07/the-butlers-desk-desk-drawer/

Please click the above link to see the full article


----------



## bearkatwood

Got a good jump on the library set. The bench and chair will have a Maloofy look with a bit of Art Nouveau like my saw till thrown in for good measure. These will have a slip seat with dark leather upholstery so they don't get scratched up by people.
















'

Fun joinery, I haven't done a maloof joint in quite a few months and it was fun to get back to it.


----------



## CL810

Is a maloof joint same as a hip joint?


----------



## bearkatwood

Find me a decent picture of a hip joint and I could say, but I would say the maloof joint is better categorized as a stepped halved joint. It can be a very complex and daunting joint to make at first, but once you get it figured out it goes pretty easy. I do a angled version that is kind of fun and will probably do a short video on it eventually.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dang, I'm getting intimidated to post here anymore;-)

Cherry nightstand project post is up:


I'm cruising along on some Adirondacks now.


----------



## Pezking7p

> Find me a decent picture of a hip joint and I could say, but I would say the maloof joint is better categorized as a stepped halved joint. It can be a very complex and daunting joint to make at first, but once you get it figured out it goes pretty easy. I do a angled version that is kind of fun and will probably do a short video on it eventually.
> 
> - bearkatwood


I watched the canadian woodworks guy make a few on youtube. Seems like it's pretty much about having a router jig? Is it more complicated than that?

So much good stuff going on in here. I love the dovetails. And….using through tenons to join the back of a drawer is epic.

Working on finishing my coffee and end table. Thinking about upcoming chair build. When doing bent laminations, you need to clean off the band saw marks after making veneer. How much does this affect the finished appearance of the lamination in regards to grain continuity? If I'm taking 1/16" off of each veneer sheet, won't that disrupt the grain and make the part appear "laminated" as opposed to the illusion of a solid piece of wood?


----------



## DanKrager

Pez, Since I have one (or two) I'd think about running those veneer strips through a thickness sander to skip off the band saw marks. Unless you have a pristine saw cut the hills and valleys will show and the lamination is likely to show even if you sand it. I don't know of any way to completely eliminate the glue lines, but you might get lucky and they won't be prominent. If you can cut molding on the edge that helps sometimes, depending on the profile. Resawing that thin you're losing 50% of your wood and grain match won't be good. You lose it going around the bend anyway, so the only reason I can think of for "matching" is color.

For a true solid wood look, consider bending a stick, as in steam bending.

DanK


----------



## bearkatwood

Agreed, it is pretty tough to get a perfect glue lam where it looks like one piece of wood. When resawing take your time and get as flat a cut as you can and then if you can run it through a thickness sander it will turn out better. 
On the Maloof joint, I haven't seen to much of what the canadian does. I see his stuff on instagram and he is very talented. I only use a jig when I put it in at an angle. Other than that it is about making your dados 1/2" exactly less than the thickness of the piece for the seat width and then for the curved rabbet the depth has to get the center section to fit the dado in the leg. Don't know if that makes much sense. I do them fairly quickly after 15 years of practicing them so maybe I should just do a video on how I make them  but it will have to wait until probably late october as I am nutz busy.
I got the veneers resawn and sanded up for the back rests today. Not much to see, but I will have pic soon.


----------



## TheFridge

Case for my base amp. Still have to make a couple things for interior mounting. Wanted it to be able to take a beating. thinking about brazing some together brass flat bar to make corner caps. Will see how it Goes.


----------



## TheFridge

Case for my base amp. Still have to make a couple things for interior mounting. Wanted it to be able to take a beating. thinking about brazing some together brass flat bar to make corner caps. Will see how it Goes.


----------



## bearkatwood

Fridge!! Holy bananas, that looks awesome.


----------



## Pezking7p

I had planned to steam bend, then everyone got me swayed over to laminating. Btw, I wasn't intending my veneer to be 1/16" thick, I was planning on 1/4 or 5/16". I meant I thought I would have to sand or plane 1/16" of each piece to remove band saw marks from both sides.

I guess I have to rein estimate steam bending.

Fridge, looks awesome. It's bigger than I thought. B


----------



## jwmalone

Question, when I cut a 3/16 slot in my rails and stiles for my cabinet doors in order to measure for the plywood do I need to measure the full length of the grove to get maximum depth you know to get the plywood to bottom out. Cut the slot about 5/8 of an inch into a 1.5 inch rail/stile


----------



## Pezking7p

Jw, you don't want the plywood to bottom out. I would cut it about 1/16" shy of bottoming out and glue just in the center to prevent rattling.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks gents.


----------



## PPK

Ok Guys, I'm going to reduce the average quality of projects here by adding my meager "custom-box" cabinets that are not really furniture… but it's what going on right now in my shop (and garage too)

The plan:









The small uppers being assembled and some of the parts for the bases cut out:

















The monster "pantry" style ones for the two ends:









Stack of them ready to sand, stain, lacquer:









Maybe I'll post a couple shots of the doors and my version of dovetail drawers when I get to that point… Don't hold your breath, they are NOT hand cut


----------



## Waldo88

> I had planned to steam bend, then everyone got me swayed over to laminating. Btw, I wasn t intending my veneer to be 1/16" thick, I was planning on 1/4 or 5/16". I meant I thought I would have to sand or plane 1/16" of each piece to remove band saw marks from both sides.
> 
> I guess I have to rein estimate steam bending.
> 
> Fridge, looks awesome. It s bigger than I thought. B
> 
> - Pezking7p


I plane the bandsaw marks off using a low angle jack. I just hold one end of the veneer as I go. Also follow the 80/20 rule - the first 20% yields 80% of the final product, the last 20% takes 80% of the effort; pretty good is good enough.

I used some veneer I made this way (little under 1/8" thick) for the core of my latest build, a little planter:


----------



## ShaneA

PPK, where are the backs of the cabinets?


----------



## PPK

I find it saves time & a lot of effort to stain/lacquer the cabinets and their backs separately, then assemble them afterwards. Faster dry time, easier to sand, easier to spray, lighter to haul around the cramped shop, etc…

Sorry, short answer: They aren't made yet ;-)


----------



## BHolcombe

Fridge, nice dovetail work!

I've prepared this week's update on the cabinet desk that I'm building. I've finished up the desk area and accompanying sliding tray.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/07/14/the-butlers-desk-workspace/

*Please click the above link for the full article. *


----------



## CL810

Brian you're raising the bar. That groove you made for the battens was some brave hand skill work. Awesome piece of furniture.


----------



## BHolcombe

Thank you!


----------



## BHolcombe

Good morning! I've been whittling away on the Butler's desk and wanted to share the progress I've made. At this point the overall design is visible in it's near entirety, with the drawer pull recesses cut, the chamfers applied and the finish now also being applied.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/07/21/butlers-desk-gets-detailed/

*Click the above link for the full story*


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen

Beautifull work, Brian!
Have been following your blog and enjoy the thorough posts you write. Quite informative and to a high level of workmanship and ambition.

Thank you for sharing!


----------



## BHolcombe

Thank you! My pleasure and thank as well for following along with my blog.


----------



## TheFridge

Enjoying some new tools. The 60 1/2 put in a lot of work so far.










I put some shellac on the inside and wiped the glue up. Worked out awesome. I may inlay something into the top and I still have to figure out handles and corner protection.


----------



## BHolcombe

Nice looking dovetails fridge!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Best block plane made imo Fridge. The contrast of the species on the DTs is slickity.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks fellers. Practice does me good. Except when I cut the wrong side of the line…

Loving the 60-1/2. One well built plane. Finding I'm grabbing the 2 a lot more than I thought I would. Never thought I'd need more than a 4-1/2, 5-1/2, & 7 but I'm starting to see the usefulness of a variety of sizes depending on the situation.


----------



## WhoMe

Nice work fridge. Through dovetails with contrasting woods, always a great look.
I don't have a #2 yet… but I use my#3 a lot.


----------



## putty

Nice Fridge, I love the curly maple and walnut!


----------



## waho6o9

Fantastic joinery Fridge, congrats!


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks guys. I thought half blinds would've been awesome but that was a lot more work than I had time for.

I always have a hard time using lumber out of my stash. Glad I did though. Sometimes I just like looking at it more than using it


----------



## JayT

I love my #2 size. When I got it, figured it would just be a shelf queen. I didn't ever use a #3, preferring a #4, so how could a #2 be useful? Found that I love it for small smoothing tasks and reach for it instead of a block plane whenever I can.


----------



## TheFridge

I'm thinking along the same lines. Never really used a 3 but the 2 has the same footprint as my goto block (220).


----------



## BHolcombe

I know the feeling, I've had some walnut for a few years now that I bring out once a year to look at then put back. For reasons unknown as its not any better then stuff I use without sweating over.


----------



## jmartel

I think I want to pick up a LN #3 at some point. The #2 seemed a bit small when I used it at their demo day.


----------



## TheFridge

It is on the smallish side but it fits my feminine hands really well.

Edit: my thoughts were a block plane with a chipbreaker. Have to say it again, love the LN 60 1/2


----------



## WhoMe

Until that type 11, or V logoed bladed #2C fits within my budget and is in my shop, my #3C is my go to. Even more than my 4C.
I find it is much more useful on proud dovetails than my 60 1/2. But hey, to each thier own.

Fridge, did you cut your dovetails slightly proud or spot on?


----------



## TheFridge

Proud.

My Stanley 60-1/2 wouldn't keep the iron where it wanted it so I never really used it much.

The wife wasn't happy with me using her chopper 









Worked like a champ though.


----------



## BHolcombe

Is that Shellac Fridge?

Good morning! I'm on the home stretch now, wrapping up what's left to complete the Butler's desk. I've finished installing the lock for the desk drawer and detailed the installation here;

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/07/28/locking-the-butlers-desk/

*Click the link above to see the entire post.*

This should come in handy for those of you installing full mortise locks into cabinetry, of which there are not many (if any) tutorials online.


----------



## TheFridge

Yessir

Nice. So it pops open and allows access to the pistols and grenades stashed in there for the zombie apocalypse?

Rule #1 cardio


----------



## bearkatwood

Hilarious. You were joking right?  That hasn't started yet??


----------



## BHolcombe

That is actually not far from the truth, hehehe.

Cardio indeed! Your wife is either incredibly understanding or you are a very fast runner.


----------



## jmartel

Just saw this tonight. Brian you did a wonderful job. What all is left?


----------



## PPK

I made a bit more progress on my cabinets. Drawers are done, except the two that I forgot and my wife asked me about. Der-da-der. She was kind about it though.



























Also got the rails and styles cut out, and a few of the smaller panels, and one door assembled.


















I actually have some friends that are impatient for me to get going on THEIR projects, so they said they'd come over and help sand. I told them they could sand ALL THEY WANT, I'll even provide sanders and dust masks!!


----------



## BHolcombe

> Just saw this tonight. Brian you did a wonderful job. What all is left?
> 
> - jmartel


J, Thank you! I may build a stay for the door and I have some finishing left to do.


----------



## theoldfart

Time to begin my homework so first we draw;








This may take a while!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice!
Will you make the top portion as well?


----------



## theoldfart

Paul, no. It's a Connecticut Valley low boy so just a few drawers.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Well I haven't posted much progress in a while, so here is where I'm at:

I was able to inlay the brass into the applicays.










I made a little jig so I could round over the edges with a router.


















I then modified it to use as a holder so I could sand it.


















With that part complete, I used a template to route the applicays into the leg corners.










So here is the resuls.


----------



## woodcox

Awsome Paul. Did you make that tool? The brass square..


----------



## Hammerthumb

I had to look to see what you were talking about. It's a template for the lambs tongue. I made it a while ago and have used it on this and other projects. I have another one somewhere with patterns on both ends with slightly different shapes. I'll add another shape to this one when I find need of it.


----------



## woodcox

It looks like it was well worth it. Nice work there.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dang Paul. Your work seems like I'd see it in Downton Abbey.


----------



## jwmalone

Hey guys, I know this is a furniture MAKERS forum which is my hobby. But I refinish and recane a lot as well. This rocking chair I bought because I really like it ($20). I cant find the info I want online Its a Lincoln style made from maple, hand caned. Anyone know when these were popular. Trying to figure the age. It has dowels in it but there are also some slotted wood screws in it on the head rest. thinking they might have been added later and need to be removed and replaced with dowels thanks for any info. I'm also gonna use it as a reference to make a few just like it.


----------



## theoldfart

Today we are working with tailed tools









I guess my work defies gravity, should have used the I pad


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nothing wrong with tailed tools.
Nice gravity defying leg you got there. Slippered foot?

Sorry JW. Missed your prior post. I can't give you any help on the age of that rocker. Maybe someone else has an idea.


----------



## theoldfart

Simple round pad Hammer.


----------



## TheFridge

Hammer that stuff is fire.

Can't wait to do some curvy legs meself


----------



## bobasaurus

Wow, hammer. Those inlays came out great. Did you cut the recesses by hand?


----------



## bobasaurus

Also, I finally managed to get a decent coat on the table after months of problems:










I switched from waterlox original to arm-r-seal about half way in (mid-gloss, made by mixing gloss and satin). The waterlox kept balling up while sanding between coats, blushed if conditions weren't perfect, and was yellowing rapidly. The arm-r-seal applied a little easier but still was a learning process for a surface this large.

Some things I learned, in case it might be helpful to someone:

Use a wide foam brush instead of a rag or bristle brush for large surfaces like this. The bristle brush left brush marks, no matter how smooth I attempted to make my strokes (it was even a good badger hair brush). The rag just streaked (even if pre-wetted with mineral spirits)... I couldn't get a thick coat of finish on before it started to turn tacky.

Wetting the foam brush with mineral spirits before starting helped lubricate the brush strokes.

Correct ventilation is important. A box fan by an open window is too much ventilation, even at the lowest speed. No air flow and just an open window causes blushing from the mineral spirits dissolving the lower layers. A smaller desktop fan on low is perfect.

Make sure there are no missed areas on the first pass, and minimize dust from the start. I get the finish quickly applied for coverage, then drag the foam brush once over everything with very little pressure to smooth it out. While touching up the edges to clean up drips later, I would sometimes see a dry patch or spec of dust. Trying to fix it at this point would always result in drag marks and blotches, as the finish gets tacky super quickly. After the initial brush smoothing, the top coat cannot be touched.

Any low areas in the top will pool finish and dry strangely, either with drips/slumps or as a wrinkly lake of thick finish. So immediately after doing the drag smoothing with the brush, I back-brushed the two low areas in smooth continuous strokes to remove excess finish build-up.

Always touch up the edges after doing the top, drips are inevitable. I also used a cloth to remove excess that flowed to the bottom.

Temperature matters. Trying to get a good coat to dry evenly in the cold was impossible. It would always blush strangely instead of drying clear. The summer months helped me on this.

Humidity matters. Heavy rain outside would cause high humidity in my finishing room with the open window, and made the finish blush.


----------



## bobasaurus

Full picture… the first was instagramed and looked a little weird.


----------



## bearkatwood

Hey did I hear someone say chair?? 
That rocker was very popular in the early part of the 20th century. I have seen examples of it in a few different styles built as early as the 1880's. Some had spindles in the back and turned front legs, in fact most examples you will find have turned front legs and stretchers with some ornamentation. Yours has saber front legs which weren't as common.
Gebruder Thonet was a designer from Austria that produced many bent wood designs and the look became wildly popular sparking mimics. We just don't have garden parties anymore  a shame. As to tell of it's age, I am sure somewhere chairs like it are still being made which makes it difficult to judge without close examination. If the canes goes through the back and seat, it was hand caned and possibly hand made, but most likely it was machined in a factory. If you don't see holes in the bottom of the seat and back then the cane was factory made. As to your question of popularity I would say this style was right around the 1920's at it's peak. You have a great find there, best of luck. Re-caning that curved back can be tricky.

Hammerthimb your work deserves the highest praise, beautiful!!
Oldfart.. cool trick getting that leg to stick to the wall like that  nice work.
And lastly Bobasaurus Amazing, just outstanding! great job. 
I hope you all have a great day! 
Laters.


----------



## theoldfart

Brian, I like to think of my world as a bit skewed :/)


----------



## bearkatwood

I am kinda skewed up myself so I won't hold it against you. 
Hey any of you attending WIA this year, if so I hope to meet up with you there. I have 17 hours worth of flights and layovers to get there, but dangit! I'm going


----------



## bobasaurus

Always wanted to attend WIA, but not sure I want to spend the travel and registration costs. Wish there were more woodworking events in CO. Brian, are you doing the full conference registration or just the marketplace?


----------



## jwmalone

Thamks Brian. Its hand caned, I've done a few of those curved backs over the years, tricky is an understatement.


----------



## bearkatwood

I am going for the whole kit-n-kaboodle


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks for the compliment Brian.

Allen - I have to confess that some of the recess was cut on CNC. This was just to expedite the process. I still had to remove the perimeter of the outline as the CNC bit is too large to get into all of the small corners. I have quite a few carving tools, some of which are the Flexcut micro tools. I must say though, my eyes are getting too old for that kind of work anymore. It took about 1 hour of carving per applicay. I just glad that part of the process is over.

I have had a few other projects I've had to catch up on the last week, so I will get back to work on it this weekend. Temperature today has a high of 93. I wish that would go thru the weekend, but it is supposed to get back to 102 tomorrow. That's still better than 115.


----------



## BHolcombe

Good morning! The butler's desk is nearing completion, but there are a few details left to finish, the primary one which has been lingering in my mind for quite a while is the stay for the desktop. While historical examples leave it out, I've been nervous that the desk could be damaged by opening it and letting it flop down without the supporting drawer extended.

In order to counter that I've begun building a stay out of 360 brass using a Bridgeport mill and some basic hand tools.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/08/25/adventures-in-making-hardware/

Click the above link to see the full story.

Wordpress hosts images too large to post here….


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Wuddup fellers. I thiiink I'm done with my traveling and classes. I'm back in the shop a little. I started a bookcase for my wife. One big ol walnut board I wanted to use for the side had a knot I couldn't work around. So I gave it a little beauty marK.


----------



## johnstoneb

Nice beauty mark. I have always used epoxy and glitter. I might have to try that on a project that requires some class.


----------



## theoldfart

Well, just ordered some Auriou rasps from LN. I'm hoping they will make shaping cabriole legs easier. Next up a sharpening session for my spokeshaves.


----------



## bearkatwood

Cool look Red, you gonna be at WIA this year?


----------



## theoldfart

Speaking of WIA, if anyone is going and is about to buy a three day full conference pass, send me a pm. I have one discount coupon for $50.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Bruce- never tried the glitter. Either way, if some looks at the lower side of this bookcase, they'll get a little surprise.

Brian- No WIA this year, that's a graduation weekend for me. I'm pretty darn sure I'll be at Handworks in Amana again next May if anyone wants to meet up. A fun place to drink beer with toolmakers.


----------



## jmartel

It's too bad the woodworking shows don't come up to Seattle. Closest we get is the Wooden Boat show across the sound in Port Townsend.


----------



## ColonelTravis

I need to get to that Handworks show, but that's a haul for me.


----------



## bobasaurus

Red, you heard anything about a new handworks? I've been looking for info and found nothing. I guess there was a 2 year gap between the first two, so it makes sense there could be another in 2017.

I was at the 2015 one, sorry I missed you Red. I'll definitely attend the next one, hopefully I can meet some of you there.


----------



## bobasaurus

I finally finished the damn table:

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/264858


----------



## Hammerthumb

Beautiful job!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Shoot dang Allen!



> Red, you heard anything about a new handworks? I ve been looking for info and found nothing. I guess there was a 2 year gap between the first two, so it makes sense there could be another in 2017.
> 
> I was at the 2015 one, sorry I missed you Red. I ll definitely attend the next one, hopefully I can meet some of you there.
> 
> - bobasaurus


They have HandWorks every other year. The first two have been in May. Huge success and they have not intention of stopping. I would expect new site and specifics going up this fall. Those rascals usually reserve all the best bed and breakfasts before they announce the dates. I'm on to you Schwarzy.

I'm 90% sure I'll be there. It's just too close, and too good of time. Join me with the LN guys in the pub afterwards. Good times will be had.


----------



## bobasaurus

Sounds good Red, I'll hit you up when I go. Another long drive or expensive flight to Iowa, but very worth it.


----------



## CL810

Awesome table Allen!


----------



## bearkatwood

Table turned out great.
Red, I doubt I will make it to handworks. I am lucky to be going to WIA. I have plans to travel a lot to all these shows when my kids are off to college, but that is about 5 years off for the last little bird to leave the nest. 
Maybe I will go buy some of them scratch tickets and see if I make the big bucks, then I can take my private jet over there for the weekend


----------



## JayT

Allen, the table looks killer.

WIA is a no go. I'd like to make it to Handworks, but we'll see what the work and spouse calendars say. I've been at this job long enough, I've got an extra week of vacation that'll have to be used up. Ideally, I could make it a motorcycle road trip. For one, it would be a lot of fun. For two, that would limit the amount of stuff I could buy.


----------



## j1212t

Alen - sweet table!! No go on the WIA, would definetly go, but about a 10 hour plane ride for me…

I am also starting on a new piece to match the bedroom set I made for my daughter. I have made a dresser and a crib previously, I have a pic of both of them somewhere, but cant find them now, the bed is in my projects and the dresser is in the sketch I am showing now.

Anyhow, I am making a wall mounted cabinet (with a partially hidden shelf unit) to go with the set and I am having some weight issues - pun wholeaheartedly intended. 

So here's the design:


















The carcass of the cabinet will be about 33" x 22" x 12", with the face frame adding some more, but currently my issue is with the carcass. I only have milled up 7/8 material, which seems way to bulky, it'll be heavy and it worrys me somewhat as I am fastening it to drywall (I might be able to hit a metal stuf or 2 but I am not counting on it).

So, what do you guys think, given the dimensions, how thin can I go with the material? The cabinet will be holding my daughters clothes, so nothing extra heavy, no doors, just coat hangers in the top half and 3 drawers on the bottom to keep some bibs and whatnots.

*TL;DR *-
I am building the carcass out of oak, so I am thinking 5/8 should be plenty thick, can I go even less, like 1/2? Is there any consideration to keeping it 7/8 instead of going as thin as possible?

The back will be an oak veneered alder panel.


----------



## DanKrager

I don't see anything but positive about going thinner, as thin as 5/8". I am wondering how this gets secured to the walls. Just screws through the back? Usually, I think, there is is a cross member at the inside top that could be considered part of the structure of the cabinet. If it were secured well to the sides (M&T? or even through tenons) then you are bound to hit at least one stud. That should be sufficient. A 45° slope at the bottom of the cross member would help it blend a bit, and plugged screws.

DanK


----------



## j1212t

Hey Dan, thanks for the input, the 45 degree slope is a great idea, didn't think of it at all.  Yeah I didn't draw it out or mention the fixing it to the wall part…

The lower half is easy, as it will be hidden by the drawers, I'm going with 2 cross members just to be on the safe side. The top will have one cross member. They will all have M&T to maximize glue surface and the top one will have a rabbet as well. The metal studs are not ideal for fixing things, but if I can hit 2 studs, that'll be 6 screw places, so I should be fine.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

I would use toggle bolts in the metal studs.


----------



## bearkatwood

I like the curves Jake. The only part that catches my eye as off might be the feet hanging down on the upper cabinet. It looks like a floating base cabinet, maybe if they weren't squared off on the bottom of the feet but had a concave shape or something so they didn't look like they were suppose to sit on the ground. Love the flow of the design. Great sketch.


----------



## j1212t

> I like the curves Jake. The only part that catches my eye as off might be the feet hanging down on the upper cabinet. It looks like a floating base cabinet, maybe if they weren t squared off on the bottom of the feet but had a concave shape or something so they didn t look like they were suppose to sit on the ground. Love the flow of the design. Great sketch.
> 
> - bearkatwood


Thanks for the input! I agree, they're a bit odd looking and need to be redesigned, I'll throw some new stuff together in a few days and put it out for round 2. Might make a bastard child of the current face frame and the picture frame I made http://lumberjocks.com/projects/115689


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I knew you guys were stressing out, so I made calls and got the Handworks 2017 site up and running for ya;-P

http://www.handworks.co/

Be there, or your furniture won't be square.


----------



## bobasaurus

Oh boy, nice job Red. I emailed those guys a while back and never got a response. Can't wait to attend.


----------



## LJRay

Bummer. Gotta work that weekend.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Hey, who's bright idea was it to do through tenons AND a dado? $%^&


----------



## theoldfart

^ some kinda plug and chug engineer maybe?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

hehe. Based off a design I saw in Pop Wood. The subtitle did say something like, "Anything worth doing, is worth doing excessively." That's what I get

I'll get 'em. But it's a bear to get everything perfectly line up.


----------



## theoldfart

Will you wedge the tenons?


----------



## Mosquito

Lol funny you should say that… I just last night decided NOT to do that, and just go with the double tenons instead on something I'm working on currently


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Funny Mos. I'm not sure it hides much….as the author claims. Next time I'll just bust out the domino.

Yes Kev, some sort of ebony wedgie.


----------



## CL810

Came across www.custommade.com website tonight. Very interesting looking at what is being offered and the prices. Saw some of Rhett's work listed.


----------



## bearkatwood

I have been using CM for over 13 years and it has worked very well for me. It is like etsy for larger items and "custom made" items of course.
http://www.custommade.com/by/bearkatwood/


----------



## CL810

That's great Brian. Have your transactions been mostly local?


----------



## bearkatwood

I have yet to ship some furniture over seas, but I have shipped to just about every state in the US. I have gotten very proficient at making crates
It is amazing that people will pay the shipping costs they do for some things. I have only had a few where the shipping was more than the purchase, but it still blows me away. Of course I am still blown away someone would pay $3,500 for a rocker, but I won't complain.
The customer service they provide is second to none in my opinion, I have had a great relationship with them over the years. They charge way less commission than any art gallery I am in. I haven't done too much with them lately as I have been trying to fill my barn with goodies in hopes of opening a gallery.


----------



## PPK

So excited about my first NEW plane, I have to share…
A Lee Valley Veritas Scraper plane.

















I've read others had trouble getting it to work right, but I more or less followed the directions, and had it making nice little shavings five minutes after getting it out of the box. I did put the rec commended burr on it, but it didn't seem to work as well that way, so I honed it off and was back at making shavings. I smoothed out some panels on my doors that, well, let's say had some user error going through the drum sander. 

I may have just become hooked on hand planes. This could get expensive.


----------



## theoldfart

"This will get expensive." There I've fixed it!

Welcome to the bottomless pit, we've all jumped in.


----------



## Iguana

I found a little bit of time to make a pair of nightstands for one set of kids.


----------



## jmartel

Well done, Mark.

And it's a slippery slope, PPK. If you get the chance, go to a Lie-Nielsen hand tool event. You get to play with all of their planes, and then custom infill plane makers usually go as well. Nothing like taking off whispy thin shavings with a $3000 ebony smoother.


----------



## Iguana

Thanks, J. I've promised the wife I'll make some nightstands for us, too. Those will use a more traditional form of joinery.


----------



## punkin611

The work done today is very good even great I dare say. BUT the 18th century craftsman Did as good or better in less time and with no power and fewer tools than you can imagine. I dare say not 5 people alive today could build say a highboy in the length of time they did. I would have loved to see them work.


----------



## DanKrager

^+1 to that. I probably can't even stay awake for as many hours as they worked. Are there any reliable records about how long it took to do some of those high end pieces?

DanK


----------



## bearkatwood

That is a good question. I feel there is a push towards perfection created by the consumers who are used to flawless machine created goods for a cheap price that has put tremendous pressure on today's craftsmen to compete with that expectation of flawless work at a reasonable price. There are many makers who have been answering to that with unbelievable work. Punkin611 I think you would be surprised how many talented craftsmen are still present in the world today that can replicate the productions made then in a production based atmosphere. I can think one that stands out right off the bat is Allen Breed. His speed in handwork in incredible.
On a different note,
I had an incredibly fun day, going back again tomorrow for day three. I have met so many wonderful people and had a great time. It was a wild trip to get all the way out here, but very worth it.


----------



## TheFridge

They aren't coming out a consistent as I would like but it's ok. Close enough for the first try. Next time it'll be in a hardwood with some straight grain.








The reason I love cypress. Now I see a spot I need to go over again with the scraper. 








Believe it or not it's the quartersawn areas that are a pain.


----------



## bearkatwood

I like the shape, sometimes inconsistency showcases hand craftsmanship. It would be boring if it looked cookie cutter all the time. Nice work.


----------



## BHolcombe

Good morning! Today's post completes the series on making The Butler's Desk, I hope you will check out the last post in the series;

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/09/20/adventures-in-making-hardware-part-ii/

I look forward to your comments.


----------



## BHolcombe

Brian, I'm glad to read your comments about CustomMade, I've joined up and I'm working to complete my profile.


----------



## bearkatwood

BHolcombe when you get all signed up and have your portfolio done be sure to check the job board to see what people are looking for and you can bid on jobs from there. I didn't use that feature for the first two years and only took jobs where people were looking for my work, but if you can handle the odd requests for woodworking then it is a good way to stay busy. Welcome aboard I will have to check out your stuff. Post a link when you have it done.
The desk is very beautiful and the hardware looks great.


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks Brian and thank you for that tip! I will certainly post a link.


----------



## jmartel

Very well done, Brian. I'm going to have to remember some of those ways you did the hardware.


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks J!


----------



## Iguana

I'm making some wooden countertops, which is a relatively straightforward task. Just big cutting boards, made from hard maple. The highlight of my day was summed up on the following picture:









Yup, a picture of squeeze out, and I'm chuffed The little things matter in woodworking, and maybe none so much as getting a good glue line. Enough clamps to get an even spread for the clamping force. And just the right amount of squeeze out - a nice but small amount, evenly distributed along the glue.line. But not so much it runs.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Bueno. I did a glueup on my bookshelf yesterday. I'm reminded again at why I like hide glue for furniture. Saw a big ol drip this morning…..and scrubbed it off with warm water.










I wedged the through tenons with eboby wedgies.


----------



## JADobson

Nice wedges! I don't think I've ever seen them on the diagonal like that. Looks good.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Those are nice eboby wedgies!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks fellers. It was a little tedious sawing and fitting them, but I dig the look.

The ebony came from some cutoffs I bought on woodbarter. Worked well.


----------



## bearkatwood

Wedgies  nice.. he he. Kickin butt as always Red.


----------



## Iguana

Sweet, Red!


----------



## TheFridge

First fit up. Drawer front board on top








With top boards 








Hard to find cypress with this color without paying sinker prices









Time for embellishments and final scraping or smoothing on the frame before glue up.


----------



## bearkatwood

Nice.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks bud


----------



## bearkatwood

The legs really give it life. I am excited to see it finished.


----------



## TheFridge

You and me both my friend


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Fridge- I agree the tiny inconsistancies on the legs make it look handmade. Dig it.

James- I can't remember if I've seen diagonal wedges like that somewhere….or just in my head. Design is like that for me at times.

Just the back to make on the bookshelf. My bookworm wifey is gettin antsy.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Fridge - count me as another who likes the legs. Look forward to seeing the finish. I'm getting ready to make a stand-up desk from mesquite and finding straight grain for mesquite legs is basically impossible, so I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks it's OK to break that rule every now and then.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks fellers

It's really hard to spot the inconsistencies when they're not right next to each other. Either way I'm happy.

Col, this was a personal test so I just used what I had available. If I were to build something for someone I'd probably be a bit pickier with grain direction and all that. Being a test, I just used what I had (free) in the best way I could.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Fridge, I have to say I agree. I'm building for me and want to see what the end result will be. I'm doing it because I think I'll like it. However, I can't say that I'm 100% sure because it's not done. So yeah - also a test, but one that I will have to live with!

I'm building the same desk for a friend and I am going to let him pick out the wood but suggest that straight-lined legs tend to look better to the eye. I found a pic of an all-mesquite table and you can see how the legs are.










I've cut out the rough blanks for my desk legs and I've tried (key word) to get straight-ish grain but it's almost impossible with that stuff to find something classically straight. Mine aren't as crazy as that front L table leg in the picture above, but I think with a wood like mesquite you pretty much have to go with the flow. And perhaps other woods, like this curly maple desk doesn't have straight-lined legs.


----------



## PPK

Red, those angled wedges are sweet. I've never seen anything like that before. Totally makes a "planer" looking bookcase really something special.

Fridge, those are some pretty neet looking legs. I can't see any inconsistencies! Don't show us either. I've done that one too many times with my wife, and now she finds them on her own. I guess she's a good cabinetmaker's wife… And she's still supportive of my hobby… addiction… ;-)


----------



## philrhodes

Fridge - I like the legs. But the picture labeled "With top boards" through me for a loop when I first looked at it. I spent a few seconds wondering why you had cut a narrow sliver out of the front leg…


----------



## BHolcombe

Beautiful work gents! Red, I'm loving that bookcase!

I've started off a new build, creating a pair of wall hanging credenzas, one for media (TV) and the other for general storage. Both will featuring sliding doors, one will featuring drawers in addition to those sliding doors.

Please check out my post here;

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/09/26/the-floating-credenza/

I look forward to your comments.


----------



## TraylorPark

Brian, you are a machine! It seems like you just finished that desk and have, what would have taken me weeks, an excellent start on this project. That cherry you selected is perfect. Can't wait to see the cabinet come together.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff as always Brian.

A neighbor took a tour of my shop and said, "This isn't woodworking, this is art!" I chuckled and replied, "Ya, I guess that's how it evolved for me - function, followed by expression."


----------



## bobasaurus

Is that bubinga, Red? How does it plane?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nah, curly riftsawn walnut.

I have planed bubinga….and it wasn't fun.


----------



## TheFridge

Preciate the support.

BRK, HA frog?










Top is in the clamps, drawer back and side dovetailed. Now for fitting the drawer front and cutting half blinds.


----------



## bearkatwood

I think it is going to turn out great fridge. That wood has so much character to it.


----------



## BHolcombe

> Brian, you are a machine! It seems like you just finished that desk and have, what would have taken me weeks, an excellent start on this project. That cherry you selected is perfect. Can t wait to see the cabinet come together.
> 
> - TraylorPark


Thank you! It's interesting, I've had a very tough time finding walnut which really meets my specs, I have a few boards left that are really wonderful but too thin for a credenza like this (they will finish out at 5/8 or 1/2) so I'm migrating toward cherry, which works about the same as walnut but it's so easy to find nice VG cherry, and I think I'm starting to enjoy the look of it quite a bit.



> Good stuff as always Brian.
> 
> A neighbor took a tour of my shop and said, "This isn t woodworking, this is art!" I chuckled and replied, "Ya, I guess that s how it evolved for me - function, followed by expression."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Thanks Red! That is a nice bit of walnut.


----------



## theoldfart

Brian, I'll second that vote for cherry. Soon to be cabriole legs:









12/4×15"


----------



## PPK

^Holy smokes!!! That's awesome! I get excited about an 8/4×8" board…Think of the tree that has to come out of. Where do you procure such lumber?


----------



## theoldfart

A local wood dealer. They also carry sapele in slabs 35" wide by 8/4!


----------



## gargey

Robert Wearing…



> Hey, who s bright idea was it to do through tenons AND a dado? $%^&
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


----------



## bobasaurus

> Nah, curly riftsawn walnut.
> 
> I have planed bubinga….and it wasn t fun.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Dang, colors were throwing me off somehow. Curly walnut can be hard to plane too, looks like you did a great job.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks, I've got a high angle frog for my 4 1/2. Works well for the curly stuff.


----------



## bobasaurus

50 or 55 degree? I have the 50 in my LN No. 4 and it works pretty well. Every now and then I still encounter a cranky wood it can't handle well.


----------



## byerbyer

Awesome work happening around here as usual. Keep it up fellas! I've been pretty absent from LJ's and furniture building for a while now, as another project/hobby sort of took off recently. A few of you may have noticed I usually have a glass of home brew in the background of a lot of my progress pics… Well, if you ever make it southwest Kansas stop in & I'll pour you a pint!










I'm hoping to get back to the shop as it starts to cool off and before we open the doors next spring, but I guess time will tell.

Cheers all,
Jason.


----------



## theoldfart

That's outstanding Jason. Bit of a drive for me but if i'm ever traveling that way i will imbibe.


----------



## JayT

That's cool, Jason. Where's it going to be located in Dodge? You know I'll drop in to say hi, even though I'm not a beer drinker. Maybe you can start working on some microbrew root beer for me.

What does it say that there are two new alcohol producers opening in Dodge (yours and Boot Hill Distillery) and I know the proprietors of both?


----------



## bobasaurus

Fridge, that base is looking great. The legs are impressive.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks buds.

I have the 55 and I haven't found anything it can't handle yet.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Dang Jason, that's impressive - good luck with the business.


----------



## byerbyer

Thanks all.



> That s cool, Jason. Where s it going to be located in Dodge? You know I ll drop in to say hi, even though I m not a beer drinker. Maybe you can start working on some microbrew root beer for me.
> 
> What does it say that there are two new alcohol producers opening in Dodge (yours and Boot Hill Distillery) and I know the proprietors of both?
> 
> - JayT


Jay we're actually right down the street from the distillery where the old TM Deal lumberyard was located. We've started working working on a house root beer recipe… When we get it lined out I'll see about getting you a bottle.


----------



## jmartel

Congrats, Byer. Buddy of mine opened up a brewery in Virginia Beach last year. Hopefully you have as much success as he's had.


----------



## theoldfart

So from this









to this, guess who didn't connect the DC?









to this









next up cut to length and mortises.


----------



## CL810

My memory is failing me Kev, what's going on?


----------



## theoldfart

Connecticut Valley low boy also known as a dressing table.


----------



## CL810

Gonna be fun to follow.


----------



## theoldfart

Think of it a a long term entertainment option  'cuz I'm so fast!


----------



## TheFridge

Drawer built.










Smoothed and glued.










Top should go pretty quick.

Well kev, it'OL be hard for that build to take longer than the bench


----------



## theoldfart

Wanna bet


----------



## bobasaurus

Looks like it fits well, fridge.


----------



## BHolcombe

Nice work Fridge!

My work continues on the floating credenzas, in this post I am cutting the major joinery which bring the cases together. I'm preparing the cherry case to for a show and so that case will be completed sooner than the walnut case. I begin this post working both at the same time, but the post ends will only the cherry case completed. The remainder of this series will focus on the cherry case.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/10/04/the-floating-credenza-dovetails/

Cheers
Brian


----------



## theoldfart

Chopping mortises


----------



## SamuelP

Is that a Stanley marking gauge? How do you like it?


----------



## theoldfart

Sam, it's a Goodell Pratt two beam guage and I love it.


----------



## BHolcombe

Good morning! The cabinets I have been building are moving along at a very fast past. In order to make last weeks submission date for 'Works in Wood 2016' I put in a great deal of effort in bringing the cherry cabinet to life. Please check out my progress;

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/10/11/the-floating-credenza-hikido/

Cheers
Brian


----------



## bearkatwood

Very cleanly done, looks nice.


----------



## TheFridge

A little shellac and wax. French polishing and pore filling getting easier.


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks Brian, Fridge I commend your efforts in French polish, I have a love hate relationship with French polish.


----------



## ShaneA

Brain, that is really well done. I enjoy looking through your write ups.

Fridge, really well done. You are definitely a woodworker sir.


----------



## PPK

Brian, Wow! I'm amazed at the way you do all that fine work with hand tools. This is probably the dumbest question ever, but how do you keep a router plane straight to make a straight dado? Straight edge clamped down? Or eye ball it? I'd end up with the mississippi river if I eye balled it….


----------



## BHolcombe

Thank you both!

Pete, I established the groove first with a saw, then with the cranked neck chisel. What that did was make a wall to keep the router plane in the groove. Frankly, I'm not the biggest fan of router planes, but they work well for this purpose once they're given a groove to work in. Still, you would want to keep the edge from getting too aggressive with the sides of the groove.


----------



## PPK

Ok, I understand now. Thanks. You've even got it shown in your pictures.

On another note - here's what my next commission piece is supposed to look like, more or less:










Any suggestions on ways to make some nice arched moldings? The client isn't attached to the specific details, but they want it classy, and with the arches on top. It'll also be a first for me if I do the corbels also. Anyone? Tips?


----------



## DanKrager

Hey Pete, you've got a very ambitious project there! That is a BIG piece.

First tip. If you warrant your work for more than 3 years like I do, you may wish to consider beefing up the shelves in the center section which appears to be wider than the recommended 30" for unsupported shelves. At the very least, make the shelves "reversible" so they can be flipped over when they sag. And sag they will eventually. Glass shelves would add a LOT of class to a unit like this, allowing the light to get to lower shelves which is good for a dark room. Not as expensive as one might imagine compared to the expense of making a shelf.

I don't see any curved moldings in this picture. It's pretty straight forward linear work as shown. If you are considering arched moldings then you are looking at router or shaper template work, depending on the size of the molding profile. You can, if time is not a pressing factor carve the moldings by hand. A scraper with the profile will help with consistency then.

You going to blog this? It would be interesting to follow. Good luck!

DanK

Edit: a good set of detailed drawings will be your best friend because it forces you to consider all things before cutting.


----------



## PPK

Correction: I meant arched Top rail, not arched molding.

Thanks Dan for the tips. Yes, I've put in the question already to them if they want glass. I have done glass shelves before. I was thinking of framing them, however, and dropping in the glass, since they do have a number of children, and that would do a lot to protect them from impact on the edge, which kills glass, I think.

I haven't been over there to measure yet, but the size will be scaled down a little - they don't have room for the almost 7' this thing takes up. Big doesn't scare me, that's what I'm used to doing. I do need to hone my detail skills! I'm just finishing up 19' of cabinets for our local church…










I'll try to blog it. I'm a terrible photographer…


----------



## DanKrager

Pete, you got the important part in your picture, so that counts big on photography skills. Good helper?

Arched rails are simple. Band saw to near template line and sand to line. If the edge is to be molded, then a bit with guide bearing makes quick work of it. I happen to like arches with a keystone applique when there's room.

Good point on the glass vs. kids.

DanK


----------



## PPK

She came with mom to bring me home for lunch, so I'd say that's a good helper!! All three of my chilluns like "working" with me in the shop. There's never enough time in a day, so having them with me in the shop is always good.


----------



## theoldfart

Still chopping


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Get it on Pete!

I'm sure some of you saw I finished the bookcase:


Next, I've wanted to make this chair for years, and so it shall be. At the pace I've been working it should be done by next winter.


----------



## theoldfart

Look first then chop.


----------



## gargey

Oof. That sucks.


----------



## PPK

Kevin, mortise in wrong location? Can you salvage it?


----------



## theoldfart

OK, the fix is in and we are back on track









Just going to make the adjoining mortises 3/8" shorter









So back to chopping!


----------



## PPK

One more question: does anybody know of a good way to rout flutes on an arch? I've done straight flutes before, and that's easy enough with a good router guide or on the router table. But with an arch, your point of contact CAN'T be a big, flat face, right? I also know that if you make just a tiny little wiggle and you get a little "blip", flutes look awful.

In my sketch below, I'm referring to the half arches on the sides and the full arch on the top - they all get a single flute. (horizontal)


----------



## PPK

Here's the detail sketch too.


----------



## PPK

Oh, and Red, It's a pity you have to put books on that bookshelf. The back is so nice looking…


----------



## theoldfart

Three down and one to go


----------



## gargey

What are you making again?


----------



## theoldfart

Connecticut Valley low boy/ dressing table.


----------



## jmartel

PPK: I would make a curved fence for your router. Match the curved fence to the inside curve of your arch and bolt it to a subbase that you screw your router onto.

Alternatively, careful setup with a trammel guide. Leave your arches uncut and as square boards in the orientation that they will face. Use the router with the trammel guide to cut the arch portion. Lengthen the trammel arm by the distance you need and swap out the bits to a fluting bit. Leave the pivot point in the same spot (clamped to a bench is best) and leave the workpiece clamped down as well. Then you will have perfectly concentric arches and no worry about guides slipping.

Which one of the options works best depends on the radius of the arch and the room in your shop. Option B would be my first choice.


----------



## PPK

Thanks jmartel, I didn't ever think of using a trammel. I have a plan now.


----------



## jmartel

Glad I can help. I'm not sure if there's a better way to do it, but it's the first that comes to mind. Just make sure to have everything clamped down real well so it all ends up concentric. Otherwise you're in for a lot of time lining everything up again.

Side note: It looks like you've taken some drafting classes. Nice sketches.


----------



## bearkatwood

Nice, jmartel. Good input.


----------



## TheFridge

Another option for the fluting: scratch stock?


----------



## PPK

Fridge, another good idea! Now you've got me drooling over the Veritas beading tool and scratch stock…


----------



## TheFridge

Get it. And tell me how good it works


----------



## PPK

Ah pooey… Client just said they need to wait till spring to save up for it when they saw my quote. I was looking forward to this build. Guess my my scratch stock is on hold for a few months or indefinitely now ;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Crankin on the next Morris Chair. I've got staycation next week, so I'm hopin to finish it.


----------



## bearkatwood

love the ray fleck in that.


----------



## PPK

Looks awesome! ^ I also like how you can build Morris chairs beefy and they look great. I get in trouble for making things with too much "meat"...

Finished my church cabinets this weekend… finally.

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/274834


----------



## Mean_Dean

Look'n good, Big Red One!

I saw this chair (in the same book as you have, I think), and am half tempted to build it. Of course, I have nowhere to put it….....!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Workin away. I've been in cheater mode… the joinery is almost all domino. I don't think I save any time by attaching the arms to the top of the legs that way, but oh well.

Had to mod my domino XL a bit to work the 5/8" side panels. 10mm (low as it will go) wasn't near center. It worked. 









Still enjoy the handwork. 









Bam. 









Thinkin about branchin out from my "Walnut danish oil" go to A&C finish. Ordered some dye. Experimenting will come.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Looks good Red.

I'm a little envious of the time you have in the shop. Now that it has cooled here a little, it has come into our busy season with casinos trying to spend their remaining budget for the year. So, I've been real busy at work and have not been in my shop in weeks. Now I have to take a trip to San Fran this weekend to check on another project we are starting.

I hope to have some shop time between Halloween and Thanksgiving.

Keep posting pics guys.


----------



## bearkatwood

Rockin it Red!!


----------



## theoldfart

Getting there, still need to shape the feet and round the corners.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Bueno Kev. After this chair I've got a bookshelf in mind with swept legs…..nothing that shapely though.

Paul, shop time has been at a premium since I took the promotion, but I soak it up when I can.


----------



## bondogaposis

Looking good BRK, that chair is on my to do list as well. I'll be following your build, you always produce some great work.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Bondo. The plans don't say anything about a footrest, but I had to have one. Tossed one together today.










The leather should get here in the next day or two. I'd better start looking for an upholsterer.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The leather hide and dye came today. Getting fire up to finish this chair. Time to experiment with some finishes.


----------



## bearkatwood

I am working the set for my local library. A bench and chair with an ocean theme that I got the grant to make. The carving has been tedious and I have had a mountain of saws to make so it has been hard to find time to work on this. I want to get it done and out of the shop because it takes up so much room. Then I need to build the chair that goes with this. Phew! It is looking nice so far though.

















Can't figure out how to get this picture rotated here.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

And now….my morris chair looks like child's play…....

LOL. Nuttin but love for my bud Bearkat


----------



## JayT

Dang, I'm quitting furniture and going back to . . . uh, I got nothin'. Looks awesome, Brian.


----------



## bearkatwood

You guys are too funny  The morris looks great. I have been wanting to do one of those for a while. Thanks for the kind words.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Info for some: 
Most white oak antiques from the turn of the century/Arts & Craft era were ammonia fumed. That is, the makers would place the piece in an ammonia fumed tent or room, and the tannins in the white oak would react with the ammonia to give it a warm, amber tone. 
Today's makers. like myself, don't want to mess an ammonia tent (I'm sure our neighbors appreciate that). So, we come up with newer methods to imitate that "fumed oak" look. 
First step with the method is foreign to most DIYers. I'm using is a water-based aniline dye. Interesting stuff. I equate to "water coloring" your piece. And even though I've used these dyes before, I still have a moment where I think, "Oh crap! Hope I didn't ruin it." 
It'll get better each step. I know because I tried it on test boards before I would dare touch my chair


----------



## jmartel

I used dye on my tenon saw handle and my night stands. Both the powder and the liquid dye. You can even sand it out if you don't like the way it turns up. Looking good, Red.

It's soluable in alcohol as well. I preferred mixing it with DNA instead of water. Raises the grain less and I think works out a bit better. But water obviously works just fine.


----------



## bearkatwood

I think I would have gone the fuming rout, but that really looks sharp Red. Nice work!!


----------



## DanKrager

One of the problems with dye on open pore wood, especially if applied in water, is that the pores may not consistently take the color because water surface tension spans the gap trapping air in the pocket and not letting the color get to the walls of the pores. It shows up under the finish as light spots and sometimes not until then. The commercial finishers I trained with would follow the dye with a glaze coat (usually Sherwin Williams Pecan) and wipe it clean as possible. The glaze is mineral spirits based but can be thinned with lacquer thinner making it dry very quickly and penetrate any and all open pores. This seems to enrich and deepen the finished look under the top coats…usually lacquer which is water clear.

I'd make some of those chairs if they weren't so huge. Our house is big, but not that big. Lookin' real good BRK

DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I keep meaning to try those dyes with DNA, but I chicken out because I know it would dry faster….and I barely keep up with the water drying. I did forget to mention that I had previously wet the chair with water to raise the grain, then sanded.

This is actually the first big piece I've done this on. Usually I just use Dark Walnut Danish oil and poly for an A&C finish. That makes the rays pop nicely, but I want this one more authentic.

Next step was sealing the dye. De-waxed shellac. (store bought Sealcoat, thinned)


----------



## Mean_Dean

That color looks pretty good, Big Red One-would you mind sharing the recipe?!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sure Dean, but it's still evolving. Here's after step 3:









Here's the regimen:
1 - Transtint Brown Mahogany dye
2 - Seal the dye with dewaxed shellac - Sealcoat
3 - Dark walnut Gel stain, any brand
4 - clear coat, I'll use satin poly. Some like amber shellac to give it an amber tone.

Schwarz and different guys on youtube have varients, but this is what I like.


----------



## Mean_Dean

> Here s the regimen:
> 1 - Transtint Brown Mahogany dye
> 2 - Seal the dye with dewaxed shellac - Sealcoat
> 3 - Dark walnut Gel stain, any brand
> 4 - clear coat, I ll use satin poly. Some like amber shellac to give it an amber tone.
> 
> Schwarz and different guys on youtube have varients, but this is what I like.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Thanks, Big Red One!

Here's a recipe from fellow LJ, TJCROSS, who built some beautiful A&C clocks, back when he was actively posting:

-Transtint Dark Mission Brown dye (1 teaspoon / 4 oz water) - 1 coat

-Sand with 400 grit to knock back raised grain

-Transtint Medium Brown dye (2 teaspoons / 4 oz water) - 1 coat

-Spray 2 coats, Deft Sanding Sealer, then sand with 400 grit to remove dust nibs

-3 coats of clear lacquer (your choice of sheen), sanding between coats

-Dark Brown Briwax

Perhaps a bit too many steps for a large Morris chair, but it sure looks nice on his clocks!


----------



## WhoMe

Red, I would go with the poly. I have played around with several colors/tints of shellac on dyed and stained wood like yours and I don't notice any color shading on the lighter shellacs.ymmv of course. btw "threw together" that ottoman in an afternoon. Who Are you, superman??? 
Looking forward to the finished chair, it's going to look awesome.
Dean, I'm betting that sanding step also increases the contrast for the final color step too. a initial color dye and a sand back before the final color is used a lot to enhance the grain contrast on figured woods like curly maple quite often. 
Brian, those carvings are beautiful.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

You're right Dean. You can do some cool things with dyes, but I don't think a guy would want to do a regime like that on a big bookcase or something

Poly goes on today. Trying to line up an upholsterer.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

First coat of poly on today. I did a decent job with that method…..but I still have a bit of buyers remorse. Little cloudier than I like, and it doesn't show of the rays a ton. But then again, I knew that. I wanted it to look different sitting next to the chair in the OP - like it came from a different era. I probably accomplished that.


----------



## Sunstealer73

Last week's episode of Woodright's Shop on tusk tenons briefly showed a small bookshelf Roy had made. He said it was a copy of an Elbert Hubbard piece. I have found some pictures online, but struck out finding plans. It might be in Shop Drawing for Craftsman Furniture or the updated version. Does anyone know for sure? It would be a perfect design for a gift.


----------



## Mosquito

Red, remember that part a while ago about how I decided not to do mortises in dadoes about 2 months ago? I lied (finally edited the pictures)


----------



## theoldfart

Two legs done, AND surprisingly, they match!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dig it Mos. The joinery makes that piece.

Kev's got sexy legs.

The chair is already moved inside while the finish cures. I'm making another bookcase for the wife next. Walnut with glass doors.

Check this 8/4 piece of walnut. Your looking at the edge. It's about 12" wide. 









Big crook on the crotch end, but don't you think this would make some cool swept legs? Like this:









If I wanted to get crizaazy, I could use the natural cure to have the front leg curve toward you and sweep to the side. Whuddya guys think?

Here's my old school sketch.


----------



## theoldfart

Red. if you like legs









Like the design Red

Good looking joinery Mos


----------



## TheFridge

Doing work fellas


----------



## BigRedKnothead

One to go Kev. I can almost here Levon singin in the background.


----------



## TheFridge

Hopefully it's gonna be a jewelry box with tiny cabriole legs. Maple for the drawer boxes. Couldn't use the table saw because the kerf would take up too much when crosscuting. I think I'm cutting it close. on the bright side, there is virtually no paduak scraps 

Edit: gonna so how pleasing to the eye the golden ratio is and some sort of full blind miter joinery. Need a LOT more practice with full blind dovetails before I try it on something with no room for error.


----------



## ajshobby

Really like the leg idea. Inspiration bookshelf pic really shows it well. Not sure if I like the doors if it's actually a bookshelf but I'm a book nut and would rather look at spines.


----------



## summerfi

Lots of nice work going on here.

Brian, I love that bench. How do you do the carving?

+1 on DNA as a base for dyes.

White oak looking good. That clock is stunning Dean.

Kevin's legs are smooove.


----------



## Mean_Dean

> ... That clock is stunning Dean.
> 
> - summerfi


Would love to take credit for them, but they're actually the work of fellow LJ, TJCROSS!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

So wuddya do with your week vacation Red?? Heh, it's all up the upholstery dude now. It does look pretty good in our front room. I wanted the new chair to look like it was from a totally different maker/era than the old one. I think I achieved that.









-


----------



## PPK

I need a week vacation.

Looks fantastic.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Gonna get a lot of comments when this gets posted as a project!


----------



## BHolcombe

Wow, some really gorgeous work going on here! Red, that chair is coming along wonderfully!

I've detailed the process of drawer building for my cabinet, which was finally accepted by New Hope Arts. Now I can say I'm looking forward to the show. I'll be delivering it this weekend and so I'm going over some parts a little quicker than I normally do. I look forward to your comments.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/11/01/the-floating-credenza-drawer-building/


----------



## woodcox

Awesome red. That dark hide will be nice in that wood. And a pro fit to compliment your work.

Did you ever share a pic of your girl's doll house? I'm building for Barbie. Apparently Ken got the condo in the split so she's selling the beach house and going new construction. And after meeting with her decorator, I can see this being one of those jobs.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Funny stuff WC. We started that doll house last winter, and it seems a good project for snow days. There have been times when I offered to work on it with her, but she'd rather work on what I'm building. That said. I maaayy take some of the fun out it, because I insist on taking our time and doing it right. where she'd be content to slap it together.

Sharp work as always Brian.

I've already begun on swept legs (is there a better term?) for my next bookcase. I was chatting with DanK, and it was a shame I had to cut up this crazy 8/4 board with the TS…..to get my swept legs. Created more waste. However there were some bad spots on the outside edges. And I was able to true up the bottom and one side of these blanks before going to the bandsaw with much more manageable pieces.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

This is me pouting about my walnut stash a bit. All the stuff I have left is very common grade. I can make this stuff work most of the time. (frame and panel etc). 









But, I really had my heart set on making this case solid and dovetailed….like this:









I even stopped by two lumber sources. Nobody has 10" wide clear walnut boards around here. I'll have to get very creative and edge glue if I'm gonna stick with plan A.

Moral: Making furniture like the stuff in Fine Woodworking….requires very nice, wide lumber. That stuff that can be hard to find.


----------



## jmartel

I've got some 17" wide claro walnut, but I'm not giving it up anytime soon.

If you really want the wide solid board look, you could always veneer a wider sheet of walnut to it before cutting your dovetails.


----------



## TheFridge

It's amazing how much wood can go into a project. The 10" x 6×6 jewelry box I'm making is using up every inch of an 8' l x 4-1/2w 4/4 board.


----------



## bearkatwood

I love the grain that board you ripped up Red, I see some saw handles in there  dovetails look great. That chair turned out absolutely astounding. I love some of the fun shapes you have going on in it. Nice work, mad skills brother; you've got some mad skills.


----------



## BHolcombe

Red, I buy up clear grain walnut any time I can find it, it is exceptionally rare and becoming much more so. I used to be able to find it with ease.

I have one guy local to me who slabbed up clear wide walnut in 4/4, I literally bought the entire tree less a board or two.

And my post;

Good morning! The Floating Credenza is now residing at New Hope Arts gallery in New Hope, PA but it is not quite completed in it's electronic form. This post details the process of building the base frame for the credenza. I was hesitant in building a baseframe but ultimately happy that I did so, upon seeing the gallery I quickly realized that installing a cabinet into a wall was quite impractical. I look forward to your comments.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/11/10/the-floating-credenza-base-frame/


----------



## PPK

Brian - Very nice final post! I couldn't begin to make something that nice…
I've got a couple questions - I don't understand what the kebiki gauge is used for/how it works? Also, where do you get those holdfasts? They look really nice to use - so low profile.


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks Pete! The kebiki gauge is set to the width of the mortise chisel and then set to the position where the mortise should fall. It is then drawn over the furniture leg to apply two knife lines.

The holdfasts are from Lie Nielsen, I have been using them for a while I really like them.


----------



## PPK

Thanks, I got it! It's a marking gauge. For some reason, I thought it had something to do with planing the stock down to size…


----------



## pintodeluxe

Red,
The finish on that chair is amazing. You absolutely nailed the color. I have used that finishing schedule minus the shellac, and it came out quite a bit darker. It looks like the seal coat gave you good control with the gel stain.

Bravo!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Thanks Pinto. I still wasn't sure about the final results….but it looks great in our house. FYI, I thinned that zinnser about 50% with DNA. Made for a good sealcoat. And nest time I will to the gel stain in sections. The old masters I was using started hazing too much….then I had to activate it a bit with mineral spirits.

Brian, I feel ya on the walnut. I've gotta start hunting again.

I'm still stuck on the fact that I want a solid case for this bookcase build (as opposed to frame and panel sides) even if I to edge glue. It's my day off, so here I go.


----------



## BHolcombe

I've been contemplating buying full slabs and resawing them to turn out material for casework. I'll need a big bandsaw but I think it'll be worth the effort.


----------



## bondogaposis

BRK, that chair turned out really well. You found some amazing wood for it. I can't wait to see it after the upholstery work is done.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I ve been contemplating buying full slabs and resawing them to turn out material for casework. I ll need a big bandsaw but I think it ll be worth the effort.
> 
> - BHolcombe


The timing is ironic for me. Recenlty a coworker showed me some walnut trees he wants to take down around his pool. Well, I found a local guy with a woodmizer. Now I'm setting all that up. Bueno.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> BRK, that chair turned out really well. You found some amazing wood for it. I can t wait to see it after the upholstery work is done.
> 
> - bondogaposis


Thanks Bondo. I've been having a bit of trouble finding an upholsterer. It's a dying trade. Very few return your call, and the guys in Des Moines were 6 months out on orders. I may have found one, but it'll have to wait til Jan. Maybe I should just take an upholstery class at the Community college like pinto;-)


----------



## bearkatwood

Yeah, very nice work Red! I have had to cut my teeth on upholstery since my earliest chairs. The upholsterers around here leave much to be desired. They are better than me sometimes, but I am consistant and don't have to wait or pay out the nose for the help. I have used a great upholsterer in Portland (six hours away) for some bigger jobs, but most I can handle myself now. 
There is some really good videos that could help you give it a try your self. This guy really does a good job of showing the process if you need it.
ALO Upholstery


----------



## bobasaurus

Red, that morris chair looks amazing. Are you wiping, brushing, or spraying on your finishes? Brian, the carved bench is a thing of beauty. Oldfart, getting those legs to match is impressive.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Cool Brian. I've really resisted another rabbit hole to fall into. Wouldn't be so tough if I wasn't using leather. I had a good upholsterer in Omaha, but now I can't get him to answer the phone. Grrr.

Allen, The first three steps of that finish were all wipe-on (wipe off if needed). I sprayed the last coat: satin poly.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Remember the wonky chunk of walnut? 









Here's the four legs for the wifey's next bookcase. Ohh….I've got a good feelin' about this one.


----------



## WhoMe

Red, looks like a nice start to nice coat rack legs…lol
Seriously though, looking forward to the updates.


----------



## DanKrager

^+1

DanK


----------



## CL810

I don't remember if True Oil has been discussed before but I just tried it and was impressed with the results. I read about this a while back on Benchcrafted's blog and decided to use it on this piece.

The piece below is a veneered panel for a box I'm making. It may be an easier alternative to French polish. You can easily change the sheen with 0000 steel wool. The only challenge I found was eliminating some very subtle streaks from rubbing it on. Diluting the oil with mineral spirits on the pad helped.

Has anyone else used this?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I've nearly bought some a couple times Andy, but have yet to do it. LN tells me they use a gun oil for their finish on their tool handles, but won't say what brand. It does seem to highlight figure well. Most finishes with any amber hue do. Reminds me of the "Tung oil" products out there. Which are really a tinted varnish.


----------



## CL810

Flexner says True Oil works just like polymerized tung oil. The msds says 56% mineral spirits, 11% linseed oil and 33% "modified oil". You do need to sand to 1000.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, the finish companies make the names so confusing as related to the real ingredients. He doesn't have true oil on this list, so I'm not sure what category it'd be in. Guess it only matters if a guy likes the final product.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/finishing/oil-finishes-their-history-and-use


----------



## WhoMe

Unless any of you guys live in the LA, OC, Riverside, San Bernardino region, then our wonderful AQMD has made it all but impossible to purchase Tru oil here. It is less restrictive outside that area but the rest of CA isn't a while lot better. And I'm treading rumblings that our AQMD cancer is spreading outside the state.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nailed 'em. First try. I could swell with pride, but sometimes I just sit on my shop stool and get teary eyed when I think about how blessed I am. I honestly never thought I would be able to make stuff on this level. 
I praise God for giving me all; the means, the skill, and the work ethic. Even if it means waking up at 5:30 on your day off because I can't wait to cut some dovetails.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Very nice Red


----------



## bobasaurus

Well done, that is some great dovetail fitting work. I don't think I've ever done a set completely gap free.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys.

Allen, as I've mentioned before, I do use the Barron DT guide. Mostly for speed anymore. I can, and have cut very good DTs completely freehand…..but the amount of marking and time frustrates me.

With this method, I scribe a baseline, make some dents with divider on the end grain….and go to town.


----------



## lovrb

hello guys.
happy to join such a large community.

i need help with little push and open panel. want to make an element, wich go forward then you push it, then lamp in it turning on, and then you push it back, lamp turns off, and element going back to whole panel.
is here somebody who faced problem like this in everyday furniture making?


----------



## theoldfart

I have two legs done shaping wise,









at the knees









I found the the lower parts to be pretty difficult. No lathe just hand carved.









The top portion will be finished after the case work is fitted.


----------



## jmartel

You've got some sexy legs there, Kevin.


----------



## CL810

Really nice work Kev. Masterful!


----------



## DanKrager

TOF, I saw the first picture out of the corner of my eye and it looked like a person sitting there! Must be really good work! LAWL.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks everyone. I was impatient to see the grain so they are wiped down with MS. Three are fully done, finish the last one tomorrow.

Dan, whoever you saw must be bowlegged!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yessir. That handwork sure is gratifying ehh Kev?

Due to the taper and curve at the end….my current legs are getting a lot of handwork. Good sweat.










This is the first full dovetailed case I've made for a piece. Fine Woodworking will be knocking on my door any day now









I don't have this project fully worked out in my mind yet. The question of a face frame….and if/how I should do one is looming.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ha! Google photos showed this 5 year flashback. Emma and I finishing my first Morris Chair. 









-









I miss that ol shop sometimes.


----------



## theoldfart

Front legs are done and happy with the grain direction.









Dressing the carcass stock up next.


----------



## JayT

OK, Kevin, 'fess up. What piece of furniture did you steal those legs off of?

Not that I don't think you are capable of that quality of work, 'cuz we all know you are. They are just coming to completion way too fast! Those are way harder than a workbench and that only took you 18 months or so. Do you really expect us to believe you turned those out in a few weeks? ;-)

Looking really good. Can't wait to see the completed project.


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Jay(I think!). I am more surprised than anyone with how things are progressing.


----------



## gargey

Does this require a saw with no set (Japanese style)? So as to avoid destroying the saw teeth on its edge, or conversely chewing up the guide?

Thanks



> Thanks guys.
> 
> *Allen, as I ve mentioned before, I do use the Barron DT guide.* Mostly for speed anymore. I can, and have cut very good DTs completely freehand…..but the amount of marking and time frustrates me.- BigRedKnothead


----------



## jmartel

> Does this require a saw with no set (Japanese style)? So as to avoid destroying the saw teeth on its edge, or conversely chewing up the guide?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> - gargey


You can use a saw with set, just make sure the set is less than the thickness of the piece of UHMW tape that is attached to the side of the guide. I use a Veritas dovetail saw with my guide.


----------



## bearkatwood

You can always add some tape to the guide if your saw has a "drunken set" as Shannon calls it. All japanese saws have some amount of set just as western saws. If you are worried your saw is set too heavy, you can take two pieces of flat steel (I use my diamond plates with the diamond facing away form each other.and put them in a machinists vise, wrap some paper around the saw and squish the blade. This will result in a .001-.002 set depending on the thickness of the paper. Bob is the resident saw expert, but this method works well for me. I am not a fan of saw guides, but I hope you luck.


----------



## gargey

I have Lie-Nielsen dovetails & carcass saws. I don't know if they qualify as "drunken" set, but they have a hell of a lot more set than my dozuki, thats for sure.

I don't think they would glide against the guide, but rather would shrenk against it.


----------



## bearkatwood

In this video David shows using both types (Eastern and Western) with the guide. 




I would think you would be fine with the Lie-Nielsen dovetail. Even if they contacted the guide, the metal used on the guides is softer than the steel in the blade and shouldn't present a problem. I don't think you will have any difficulties. If the HPPE tape is missing, then replace it, but it should work fine. Let us know how it goes. 
I am sure if you had any questions at all you could contact Mr. Barron and he could address them for you. [email protected]


----------



## JayT

I use a David Barron guide with a western saw that was made by another LJ member (Wally331) as part of a saw swap. I nicked up the aluminum guide body the first time I tried to use it, did the squeeze the plate with paper thing to reduce the set and have used it happily ever since. With very little set, it's not a saw to be making very deep cuts with, but works perfectly for dovetails.

I like my dozuki, but find the western saw easier to use with the guide.


----------



## theoldfart

and let the scrubbing begin….


----------



## bondogaposis

Arts and crafts meets blue pine. I made this small table/plant stand in A&C style, but out of a very non-traditional wood, namely blue pine. It is an experiment, I came into a bunch of blue pine recently and I wanted to test the combination out. I'm not sure what I think, I used an amazing piece for the top with bark inclusion filled voids w/ epoxy, etc. So, I thought I'd throw it out here to see what the brain trust thinks. Whadda ya think?


----------



## duckmilk

What is there *not* to like about that Bondo? Looks beautiful from here.

Nice jobs on the legs Kev and Red.


----------



## theoldfart

Bondo, the wood is beautiful, the workmanship outstanding (as always) but I think the piece calls for a more tightly grained wood like oak. I do like the design but not in blue pine. I'm stuck in the past I guess!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I have Lie-Nielsen dovetails & carcass saws. I don t know if they qualify as "drunken" set, but they have a hell of a lot more set than my dozuki, thats for sure.
> 
> I don t think they would glide against the guide, but rather would shrenk against it.
> 
> - gargey


I've used LN dovetail with the Barron Guide (and my homemade wood guides) It rubbed off some of the anodizin on the Barron guide, but I don't think it harmed the saw.

Any saw is easy to start with the guide. The main reason I prefer the Dozuki is the results…..and I know it's due to the really thin kerf. I use a knife to mark, and the thin kerf is really easy for me to judge when placing the guide…on the waste side. Hope that makes sense.


----------



## JayT

bondo, I love the legs and actually don't mind the blue pine. Don't know if its the angle of the photography or what, but something about the proportions of the top to base seems off to me. It's like the top is too big or the base needs to be just a bit wider.


----------



## TheFridge

> bondo, I love the legs and actually don t mind the blue pine. Don t know if its the angle of the photography or what, but something about the proportions of the top to base seems off to me. It s like the top is too big or the base needs to be just a bit wider.
> 
> - JayT


Ditto. The proportions in combination with the blue pine are a bit off in my mind. Smaller top or larger base and the blue line fits perfect. Great stuff.


----------



## DanKrager

I love the blue pine look. I'm glad others saw what my first impression was …that the top is just too wide for the base and makes it look top heavy. The adjustment is easy, just trim off about an inch, maybe a scootch more, on each edge.

DanK


----------



## bearkatwood

I love the blue pine look too, very wild table.


----------



## Barbancourt

I agree that the pine looks good. I think the size of the top would be okay if you did a long, gentle bevel on the underside making the edge about half the current thickness.


----------



## bobasaurus

This is a pretty impressive cabinet up for auction:

https://www.proxibid.com/aspr/Impressive-Ca-1890-Coin-Cabinet/33183258/LotDetail.asp?lid=33183258


----------



## gargey

The curse of "way too specific purposeyness"


----------



## bobasaurus

I wonder if it was used for coin collections? It sure has a lot of small drawers.


----------



## BHolcombe

Good morning! Today's post completes the Floating Credenza series. In this post I create a cabinet back, reinforced by dovetailed battens, to close the case and complete the build.

I hope that will check it out and I look forward to your comments.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/11/17/the-floating-credenza-cabinet-back/


----------



## DanKrager

That's pretty awesome craftsmanship, Brian.

I'm curious about the tapered dovetail on the batten. Why tapered? A well fitted straight batten will hold the panel flat with no chance of expansion making it loose.

I use this kind of batten on panels I want to keep flat. This picture is one where the battens are captured and the dovetail completely invisible to all but the maker.

Well, can't post a picture. LJ image from computer is screwed up.

DanK


----------



## BHolcombe

Dan, thank you!

Straight dovetails always end up loose for me, I may revisit them now that my plane is setup for it, but I like the dovetail to be basically fairly tight.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Off to see the upholsterer. I remember picking up my last Morris Chair. The upholstery dude was sleeping in my chair when I got there. Must have been comfortable.










Found a small time dude who works out of his home. Can't wait to get it back.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Red looks awesome, can't wait to see it all done.


----------



## gargey

Is that the real recline angle, or is it loose at the moment. Or does the photo make it look more reclined than it is?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nah, I removed the stopper bar so it didn't bounce out on the interstate. That's before I strapped it too.

This upholsterer I found in Des Moines is very reasonable. If I like his work….. I could see building a prairie sofa and love seat…..like this:

(from web)









or even a sectional…









I love leather, and I really like the concept of a set that would last the rest of our lives…..and the leather/cushions can be updated at any time.


----------



## PPK

Huh. Funny, Red, you are bringing back a lot of memories… Not that I'm that old, but I took on a project of making about 100 custom pliers cases from leather when I was in high school. Our neighbor had (still has, for all I know) an old saddle shop that his dad ran, and had just acquired a shoe repair sewing machine from our mutual friend's deceased father or something like that… The machine looked like this, almost identically.










At any rate, I cut out wood forms, and molded leather, then stitched the cases with the old dinosaur. Tandy Leather is one of the first places to steal away large amounts of my hard-earned childhood dollars… I used to be really big into carving leather and making wallets, purses, etc. Still have all my tools and a chunk of a cowhide.

So, to wrap up my little story, now you've really got me wanting to get some leather and start sewing cushions for a nice (hickory and walnut) Morris chair that I've been dreaming of.  I literally do sit there on my $25 puke-green couch from college and dream of it that "someday" Morris chair.


----------



## bobasaurus

That is a hefty chair, I like the design a lot.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Pete. What's not to like about leather….except the leather making process;-) I've spent some change at Tandy leather.

Since some are interested, here's some *Leather Morris Chair tidbits* I can offer after making a few:

- Plenty of good designs out there. With upholstery and lumber….I've been able to make them for around $600. Not bad. A Stickley would run you $1500. 
- Leather- I usually shop at tandy leather for an upholstery hide. Look for one with no holes or big brands (yes branding iron scars)... at least 45 sq ft. 50 is best. 
- Your upholsterer should know, you don't want leather on the bottom of the seat cushion. No, you want fabric that will breathe….or you will be sitting on an air pillow that slowly deflates every time. 
- Tandy is waaay cheaper if you get the business price. Either make an acct, or see if your upholsterer has one. - - You only need a one-off hide for a Morris chair. The last hide I got off ebay. I've never spent more than $130 for a hide. 
- The upholsterers I've used actually prefer if you provide your own hide or fabric. 
- Look for small time upholsterers that work out of their home or whatever. Ask the local fabric store if they know one. Around $50 labor per cushion is as good as I've done. Big shops will ask 3 times that. 
- Good foam ain't cheap. Expect to pay $40 a cushion or so.

That's all I can think of right now.


----------



## theoldfart

I couldn't seem to get the shape I was looking for till now. 



























Almost there. (not that I have said this before!)


----------



## BHolcombe

Red the chair looks great. I'll offer up two sofas as an option over a sectional. The sectional does not look right to me in arts and crafts furniture.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Hey guys,

I'm in the process of designing a desk for my study, and have settled on a top of 54" wide. The Golden Rectangle calls for 33" deep, but that seems way too deep (I can't reach that far!).

What would you guys recommend for the desktop depth?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## jmartel

My desk at work is 30" if that helps.


----------



## bearkatwood

24"


----------



## Mean_Dean

Thanks guys for the input.

So, 30" still seems a little deep, and 24" seems a little narrow. I'm thinking about splitting the difference and going with 27"-which will make a 2:1 ratio. May not be the Golden Rectangle, but it's gotta be some sort of classical ratio!


----------



## theoldfart

A little more progress on the low boy. The side stock is dressed









Then cut and fit the tenons 









it fits!









The tennis were perfect, unfortunately my mortises leaned a bit to the right! Some tweaking was involved.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Rarely a step doesn't require some tweaking in my furniture making Kev



> Red the chair looks great. I ll offer up two sofas as an option over a sectional. The sectional does not look right to me in arts and crafts furniture.
> 
> - BHolcombe


I'm thinking so too. Betting I could come up with a better design than the one above (maybe even a sofa that reclined like morris chairs) but a sofa and loveseat would be better. And, more flexible if we move.


----------



## BHolcombe

My blog post got deleted, eh?


----------



## bondogaposis

Red the the chair looks great. I hope you post pictures when you get it back from the upholsterers.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> My blog post got deleted, eh?
> 
> - BHolcombe


I don't know what's up with that Brian? I saw your post on my phone, then looked for it later on my cpu…and it was gone. Admin mistake?


----------



## BHolcombe

Possibly I've been mistaken for a spammer…but my spam is good spam. It's the king of spam. The kind of spam of holiday dinners.


----------



## bearkatwood

Spam and eggs kinda spam?


----------



## BHolcombe

Similar, but even better.


----------



## bearkatwood

lol, I love the monty Python spam skit.


----------



## theoldfart

The right side is fitted and I like what I see. Hopefully the left side will be done tomorrow.


----------



## BHolcombe

> lol, I love the monty Python spam skit.
> 
> - bearkatwood


My post needs chanting Vikings, perhaps.


----------



## CL810

I like what I see as well, Kevin!


----------



## Mosquito

looks awesome Kvein!


----------



## bearkatwood

I'm a LumberJock and I'm O.k. lol


----------



## CL810

I cut down trees, I eat my lunch
I go to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays I go shopping and have buttered scones for tea


----------



## theoldfart

^long time since we heard that one!


----------



## bearkatwood

I thought it was "I go to the lava-tree" lol


----------



## theoldfart

Both ends are fitted and next up is the lower front piece and back.


----------



## bearkatwood

Nice work sir!


----------



## jmartel

Bloody Vikings…



> I cut down trees, I eat my lunch
> I go to the lavatory.
> On Wednesdays I go shopping and have buttered scones for tea
> 
> - CL810


Do you put on women's clothing, and hang around in bars?


----------



## bobasaurus

Those legs look very symmetrical, well done.


----------



## bearkatwood

I'm not tellin'
I have always thought you had nice legs Oldfart.


----------



## theoldfart

Brian, thanks but your making me blush and maybe a little nervous!

Alan thanks


----------



## CL810

I left that verse for Brian(na). ;-)



> Do you put on women s clothing, and hang around in bars?
> 
> - jmartel


----------



## theoldfart

I have the back glued up and in the clamps









I need to get the front carcass pieces cut and dimensioned soon. I have a difficult project that will take priority, an urn for my mothers ashes. We'll be headed out to see my kids and grandkids next week. This past week has been rough though the shop time has kept me sane and grounded.


----------



## CL810

Kev, did I miss something?


----------



## bearkatwood

We have too much fun here


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, sent a pm


----------



## theoldfart

So the panel all sized and ready for tenons.









So I should have the major carcass parts all fitted by tonight.


----------



## BHolcombe

Very nice work gents. OF, those legs look right on to me.

OK, lets try this again…..if it gets moderated, well…you guys know where to find me.

Good morning! The Live Edge Tsuridana is now complete and awaits installation;

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/12/07/live-edge-tsuridana-complete/

I hope that you will check out my post, and I look forward to your comments.


----------



## CL810

Great work Brian! what is a mizuya?


----------



## theoldfart

Brain thanks for the compliment.

So, maybe not enough coffee this morning. First up









Then instead of standing back and reassessing i figured no problem I'll just glue in a tenon and continued to cut out the rest of the waste and …........









I'm going for a walk now.


----------



## bearkatwood

OH! SHIITake mushrooms. That sucks, but don't worry. You are not the first person do to that one. I feel for you brother.


----------



## JohnRMills

Wow! I just joined LJ yesterday and found this forum today. Count me in.


----------



## gargey

LOL

I can relate. Two nights ago I was pissed off about something and went into the garage to work on a project, and screwed up the order. Now the project will have visible dowels in a few spots that could have been beneath the surface had I not been distracted.


----------



## Brit

Is it wrong that everyone is looking at me in the office and wondering what I'm giggling at? Kev was it a case of measure twice, swear twice?


----------



## theoldfart

measure once, cut once, swear 2 to the n times!

I did double check the layout multiple times, just didn't compare the left to the right. Lesson learned.


----------



## WillliamMSP

> Is it wrong that everyone is looking at me in the office and wondering what I m giggling at? Kev was it a case of measure twice, swear twice?
> 
> - Brit


Only twice? Lol.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Sorry, OF - one o' them mornings, eh?


----------



## theoldfart

John, welcome to the nut house. Just don't do what I did.That board was glued up and dimensioned by hand; two days of work and some sweat, hence my bad words.


----------



## Mosquito

Ouch, I have certainly done stuff like that before


----------



## bearkatwood

Yes, Welcome John, glad to have you on board. Maybe you can show us how this woodworking thing is supposed to be done, we are all just wingin; it.


----------



## theoldfart

"we are all just wingin; it.", speak for yourself Brian, some of us are doing the crash and burn thing!


----------



## BHolcombe

> Great work Brian! what is a mizuya?
> 
> - CL810


Thank you! Japanese kitchen.


----------



## bearkatwood

Makes me think of that skit by Ron White. 
"How far can we make it on one engine?" 
"All the way to the scene of the crash, which is good, cause that's where we are heading." 
But welcome all the same John, it is a fun place to show off your work 
and talk about everything you are doing wrong


----------



## gargey

Its too bad those legs were so much work to make, because it would be a great thing to hang on the wall! As a reminder, and as a bit of comedy.


----------



## theoldfart

There is photographic evidence


----------



## JayT

Ouch, Kevin. Is that the woodworking version of Dr Doolittle's pushmi-pullyu?

I've never reversed something on a woodworking project. You know, like cutting dovetails the wrong way. At least, not that anyone can prove.


----------



## PPK

Old Fart, I've definitely done that!! ^ I've also bored hinge holes on the FRONT side of nice, raised panel cabinet doors, uh, I think I'll just stop there.

Sorry if I'm changing the subject a bit, but does anybody have any experience, good or bad, with bed rail hardware? I need to build a simple twin bed that can be broken down easily, so the rails and headboard, footboard are all able to be disassembled for moving. I seen these from WoodTek. Are they good? Anything better?


----------



## RonAylor1760

What's the problem, Kevin? No bg deal … cut that panel down the middle, flip over, add a few biscuts, throw on a coat of paint … voilà … problem solved! Don't waste time walking around!


----------



## BHolcombe

> Old Fart, I ve definitely done that!! ^ I ve also bored hinge holes on the FRONT side of nice, raised panel cabinet doors, uh, I think I ll just stop there.
> 
> Sorry if I m changing the subject a bit, but does anybody have any experience, good or bad, with bed rail hardware? I need to build a simple twin bed that can be broken down easily, so the rails and headboard, footboard are all able to be disassembled for moving. I seen these from WoodTek. Are they good? Anything better?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - PPK


Through tenons!!!!


----------



## DanKrager

Ya, nothin' a Domino wouldn't fix…

DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Those bed hooks are a bit weak in the knees. They'll probably do for a single bed for a while, but they are not heirloom material and not for a double bed, if you get my drift.

DanK


----------



## gargey

Because of sex.



> and not for a double bed, if you get my drift.
> 
> - Dan Krager


----------



## theoldfart

Speaking of floating tenon









hand tool version 

Drift seems like an understatement, rock and role baby!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

John Mills, welcome to the fray.

Brian, if your spamming, so am I. Had to be a mistake. We have the right to our own site or blog. I enjoy your posts. Makes me wish I was as prolific as I once was.

Dang Kev. there are a few large hammer dents in my outfeed/assembly table from a mistake like that. Remember when I made some perfect hinge mortises…..on the front edge of a blanket chest commission? Sigh.


----------



## gargey

To those who suggested ripping the planel, flipping, and biscuiting: You'd lose the width of the saw blade (or the width of your handsawing skill) in doing so, amirite?

Not sure if other part of oldfart's project are built yet or not. Oldfart?

PS. I suppose biscuits would be needed (as opposed to a regular glue joint) because it would be end grain to end grain? What about making the cut at a severe angle (from top right to bottom left, for instance), I assume that would help with stability and gluability.


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks Red! My post remained intact this time, so I suppose the previous deletion was in error.


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks Red! Much appreciated.


----------



## duckmilk

I'm hoping that mis-oriented leg was a dry fit Kev. That hand tool floating tenon should work though 

Pete, I built a bed back in '78 with 1 1/2" tenons on the rails and used hinges with removable hinge pins to connect it. The idea came from examining a knock-down water bed frame. I don't remember how many times it has been moved, but I'm still using it today.

Brian, thanks for the link to the Tsuridana build. That is really nice! Also, I watched the mortice video. Thanks for not editing out the hand strike with the hammer, you can hear the thud ;-)


----------



## RonAylor1760

> To those who suggested ripping the planel, flipping, and biscuiting: You d lose the width of the saw blade (or the width of your handsawing skill) in doing so, amirite?
> 
> Not sure if other part of oldfart s project are built yet or not. Oldfart?
> 
> PS. I suppose biscuits would be needed (as opposed to a regular glue joint) because it would be end grain to end grain? What about making the cut at a severe angle (from top right to bottom left, for instance), I assume that would help with stability and gluability.
> 
> - gargey


Albeit in vain, my post was an attempt at humor, as I pray Kevin's original post was … sorry to be so cerebral.


----------



## theoldfart

The other pieces are cut, the legs were dry fitted, and I've started the floating tenons. The only loss is my time and pride! Humor really is the only way to deal with this. Fact is I was just complimenting myself at how well and quickly things were going. Oh well, it's beer time.

Edit: I should have said this before but thanks to everyone for all the comments.


----------



## BHolcombe

> I m hoping that mis-oriented leg was a dry fit Kev. That hand tool floating tenon should work though
> 
> Pete, I built a bed back in 78 with 1 1/2" tenons on the rails and used hinges with removable hinge pins to connect it. The idea came from examining a knock-down water bed frame. I don t remember how many times it has been moved, but I m still using it today.
> 
> Brian, thanks for the link to the Tsuridana build. That is really nice! Also, I watched the mortice video. Thanks for not editing out the hand strike with the hammer, you can hear the thud ;-)
> 
> - duckmilk


Haha, I'm glad someone finally caught that. It was in the middle of the video so hard to remove, I decided just to leave it. Sweat, blood and occasional bruising goes into my work


----------



## duckmilk

You left out tears and swear words, lol. Speaking of…be sure to show us pics of your remedy to the franken leg Kev.


----------



## BHolcombe

Bah, I have to hit it a lot harder for tears or swears. I hit my thumb full force while cuttting timber mortises on my floor….that day invoked swears!


----------



## bearkatwood

Earlier this year I severed a tenon and nerve in my left forefinger when I was trying to hurry up with a glue up and fix something a joint with a sloyd knife. Now I can't feel anything in that finger which proved to be a nice thing when I smacked it with a hammer a few weeks back and it didn't hurt at all. The finger turned bright purple the next day, but there is a benefit to it being numb


----------



## gargey

Woodworker brain.



> Earlier this year I severed a tenon.
> - bearkatwood


----------



## bearkatwood

Ha, thanks. I need an editor. Yep my Woodworker brain got me there. It was a tendon I severed while working on a tenon  ha ha
I can still play my guitar which is nice, just feels a little weird.


----------



## gargey

I cut the tip of my left index finger off in 6th grade. No feeling at all for about 5 years, then it gradually got better year after year. It's probably been approximately "normal" for about 5 years (I'm 34).

I severely broke my jaw skiing a few years ago (and several other bones in my head). Had no feeling along my mandible for several months, but it has come back a lot faster than feeling in my finger did (nerve wasn't severed, just damaged and probably compressed by swelling and swollen bones).

So, give it a few years or decades….


----------



## bearkatwood

I see it as a job asset, cause I suck at hammering and I hold nails with my left forefinger and thumb, now I just have to do some homemade surgery to make the thumb numb and I can go crazy with my hammer… At least for a few years it sounds like.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Brian, i've heard you hammer like lightning. Not that fast, but we never know where you're gonna stike…..

Bad joke for the day.

Off today. Takes about an hour to warm up my shop. Nearly done turning presents on the lathe. Maybe I'll work on some furniture.


----------



## bearkatwood

Thump, thump, whack, thump, whack, whack, ouch! 
The sound from out form outside my shop.
Have a great day all!


----------



## summerfi

I was whacking a fence rail into place with a big hammer years ago and failed to notice my left hand was wrapped around the rail. The tip of my third finger has never been the same. My feet are numb in places from my back surgery 4 years ago. I doubt the feeling ever comes back. Makes it interesting finding the brake pedal when you can't feel your foot.


----------



## bearkatwood

My worst physical problem is that I need a check up form the neck up  oh and the compressed disk I have in my back doesn't help things. So I guess neck down as well, man I'm a mess lol
Hey Bob, how have you been? I think I need to use your metal etching guy there for an upcoming saw. I will have to look back thru my messages to find the info you gave me. Hope all is well in Griz country.


----------



## summerfi

I'm sure he would be glad to help you out Brian. Let me know if you need the contact info again.


----------



## bearkatwood

I found it, thanks Bob. Glad to hear you lived thru the fire season. Stay warm.


----------



## summerfi

It was touch and go for awhile Brian. I can't run as fast as I used to. ;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Not the sort of tear out I usually get. Bummer with figured woods. Called 'er a day.


----------



## bearkatwood

Scary stuff Bob. Both the fires and getting older. 
Hate to see that stuff Red. That would be a good stopping point for me too.


----------



## bobasaurus

Ugh, that's frustrating Red. Time to get out the board stretcher.


----------



## BHolcombe

> Not the sort of tear out I usually get. Bummer with figured woods. Called er a day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Grain runout! Crotch sections are always a giant PITA to work with. I've learned two things….don't use them near joinery and when you do use them near joinery….save the broken out section.

One of my bright and shining moments was breaking out the backside of a half blind dovetail….then stupidly throwing out the broken out section in a fit of anger.

I ended up sawing that section out of the matching board to replace the broken out piece.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Heh, ya prolly not good to use the crotchy wood near joinery, but the figure is nice on that piece.

I did pick up the chipped out piece to stick back in there at glue up. Funny, I have a specific spot on my plane till for little pieces of blowout (or whatever) to be repaired down the line.


----------



## theoldfart

Began the repair process for my trick legs. After drilling the waste a simple paring and done.









Down the rabbit hole!









I'm going to cut the tenons now to double check the fit on both pieces.


----------



## theoldfart

First of the three repair tenons done









Handy to have the worlds smallest shoot plane


----------



## DanKrager

So far so good, Kev.

DanK


----------



## summerfi

Kevin, did I ever tell you that you do good work for an old guy?


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, Bob, thanks and who you callin' old Methuselah? 

Recovery from stupid is complete and only lost a day.


----------



## theoldfart

Took an outing to the Smith College art museum. They have a pretty good collection and do suport local artists. This bench caught my eye since I recognized the artists work









His name is Silas Kopf and lives not far from me.

This why you should be impressed with his work


















Just google his name and view the images.


----------



## CL810

Kev, great recovery and thanks for sharing Kopf's work.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good save Kev. Added Kopf to our list.

Back working on the bookcase. I don't always prefinish everything prior to glueup, but I have formed the habit of giving everything a coat of dewaxed shellac (thinned sealcoat), especially cherr and walnut. This shows me any glue spots and makes the finish build faster. I dig it.


----------



## theoldfart

Main carcass complete now on to the smaller members.


----------



## bearkatwood

Way to go, the measure of a good woodworker is being able to overcome mistakes. You are a great woodworker sir.


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Brian.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'll be darned it those legs don't make me wish I'd have asked for rasps for Christmas;P


----------



## JohnRMills

Thanks for the welcomes all.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

A small milestone for me today as I glued up this bookcase. I've hand dovetailed a number of drawers, but this is the first large piece of casework. It wasn't that long ago, I would see stuff like this in Fine Woodworking and shake my head.










I didn't mean to leave the tails so proud at the outset, but I kinda like the look, so I just softened the edges and rolled with it. 








I used some frog tape in hopes to catch glue drips. The verdict is still out on that method.


----------



## JADobson

Looking good Red.


----------



## BHolcombe

Nicely done Red! Dovetails for casegoods are a lot of work, but certainly worth the effort.


----------



## bondogaposis

Nice work red.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Red - can you add this to the list? He does period reproductions, and you tubes most of his builds.

davidboefffurnituremaker.blogspot.com/


----------



## Hammerthumb

By the way, nice work Kevin and Red.

If work would slow down, I might get some time in the shop. But it does not look good until mid January. Still have more trips out of town for work.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice add Paul. I love finding new furniture maker sites that make me say, "What duuhhhhh.."


----------



## BHolcombe

Morning Gents, rather than building my own furniture, in this round of spam I am repairing the design work of George Nakashima.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/12/15/nakashima-widdicomb-restoration/


----------



## waho6o9

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/03/31/humidor-build-casework/

Awesome work Brian: Secret miter dovetail.


----------



## BHolcombe

Thank you!


----------



## WillliamMSP

Ditto - very cool work, Brian. Site bookmarked for future stalking.

I see that you indicate that you primarily use hand tools (something I'd like to do, too), but I'm curious about the exceptions - what kinds of things do you do with power tools?


----------



## PPK

> Red - can you add this to the list? He does period reproductions, and you tubes most of his builds.
> 
> davidboefffurnituremaker.blogspot.com/
> 
> - Hammerthumb


Holy cats! When I get big, I wanna be like David Boeff!!!!


----------



## dbray45

Nice work Red


----------



## BHolcombe

> Ditto - very cool work, Brian. Site bookmarked for future stalking.
> 
> I see that you indicate that you primarily use hand tools (something I d like to do, too), but I m curious about the exceptions - what kinds of things do you do with power tools?
> 
> - WillliamMSP


Hi William,

Thank you! Much appreciated. I own a handful of power tools; A Minimax 20MM bandsaw, a router table, festool track saw, festool sander and festool OF1400 router.

I have owned the bandsaw for one week, and so I haven't used it for much of anything (awaiting DC install…errr….DC purchase then install  ) But i plan to use it for heavy ripping, currently I do that with a Disston 4TPI saw but it's a killer on high volume projects to rip by hand.

The Sander I use for drywall, works well for that.

The track saw I use to rip sheet goods on the odd occasion that I am using them, and or to rip along the grain of a board, which is easier done with the track saw than many other options.

The OF1400 mostly remains in its case, but I break it out occasion for odd-jobs.

I use the router table for grooving in situations where I dont have an appropriate plane.

In the future I will likely buy a thickness planer and possible a jointer. The trouble with power tools is that I really only like industrial type which are problematic in that they're expensive, they're extremely heavy and they're generally large.

I had been considering a 20" wide J/P for a while….up until the point that I realized I can't actually fit it into my 'auxiliary shop' (the garage) and if I did manage to, it would likely crack the concrete pad. It takes up 10' of space!


----------



## NicHartman

Hey, joinery question for you guys. I've been a long time stalker/silent admirer of all your work on this thread, I appreciate you guys putting this out there. I was planning on building a bookcase with a top case/bottom drawers with more shelves arrangement. Now, bear in mind before I say this that the most in depth joinery I've done is mortise and tenon, most in depth being a split tenon for a bed frame which I kreg jigged in between to hold it together while still being knock down lol. I've been waiting to confess that woodworking sin for quite a while, glad to have it off my chest.
Anyways, I'm getting off track. Would it be too ambitious for me to do a full hand-cut dovetailed carcass on the bookcase? I have all the time in the world for this and have accrued the necessary materials to dovetail it, but I'm not sure if I should go through with it. Thoughts?


----------



## jmartel

You'll never get better if you don't push yourself, right Nic? Go for it. Glue and sawdust can hide many mistakes.


----------



## PPK

DO IT!!


----------



## NicHartman

Alright, seems we have a unanimous ruling on that. I'm doing fixed position shelves and I can't decide whether I want to do them with a housed or unhoused split tenon, nor what the thickness I'm doing on the tenon. Thoughts on that?


----------



## DanKrager

+1 to the above enablements. You can take your time and DIRTFT. This group is a powerful resource for many things including how to parachute. 
I'm thinking that tenon thickness falls between 1/3 and 4/5 board thickness. The 1/3 - 1/2 ratios are most practical for joining two boards of similar thickness, like a door stile and rail. The bulkier ones are good for heavier construction where the mortise size is not limited by thickness, e.g. stretcher into leg or leg panel, shelf into bookcase wall, etc. 
IMHO you might reconsider fixed shelves because heirlooms live long enough for things to change, and I for one, appreciate the forethought a previous maker put into accommodating that change. There are classy ways to make shelves adjustable without using visible hardware. 
DanK


----------



## WillliamMSP

> Hi William,
> 
> Thank you! Much appreciated. I own a handful of power tools; A Minimax 20MM bandsaw, a router table, festool track saw, festool sander and festool OF1400 router.
> 
> I have owned the bandsaw for one week, and so I haven t used it for much of anything (awaiting DC install…errr….DC purchase then install  ) But i plan to use it for heavy ripping, currently I do that with a Disston 4TPI saw but it s a killer on high volume projects to rip by hand.
> 
> The Sander I use for drywall, works well for that.
> 
> The track saw I use to rip sheet goods on the odd occasion that I am using them, and or to rip along the grain of a board, which is easier done with the track saw than many other options.
> 
> The OF1400 mostly remains in its case, but I break it out occasion for odd-jobs.
> 
> I use the router table for grooving in situations where I dont have an appropriate plane.
> 
> In the future I will likely buy a thickness planer and possible a jointer. The trouble with power tools is that I really only like industrial type which are problematic in that they re expensive, they re extremely heavy and they re generally large.
> 
> I had been considering a 20" wide J/P for a while….up until the point that I realized I can t actually fit it into my auxiliary shop (the garage) and if I did manage to, it would likely crack the concrete pad. It takes up 10 of space!
> 
> - BHolcombe


Thanks for that - I just wanted to get another take on the balance of hand/machine work. As I said previously, I do want to concentrate on hand tools, but sometimes it seems to make too much sense to save some butt-busting effort with a machine (I do have an older planer that has saved me so much work on the laminations of my in-progress bench) and we ultimately need to feel it out for ourselves.


----------



## byerbyer

I was able to sneak in a little shop time over the last couple weeks and I was able to get the web frames glued in. 









And a ship lapped cedar back… 









Just need to flush up the front of the carcass and it'll time for drawers!



> Anyways, I m getting off track. Would it be too ambitious for me to do a full hand-cut dovetailed carcass on the bookcase? I have all the time in the world for this and have accrued the necessary materials to dovetail it, but I m not sure if I should go through with it. Thoughts?
> 
> - Nic


Nic, I dovetailed the carcass on this dresser by hand. It was intimidating until I got started… After the first set of pins and tails came together it was just lather, rinse, repeat.


----------



## NicHartman

Thanks for all the encouragement, I think I'll go with it. I'm still not sure on the adjustable shelves look, I like the idea of solid shelves and always have for a one reason.


----------



## duckmilk

What about stopped dados Nick?


----------



## NicHartman

It definitely would be an easier solution to use dados, hadn't really much considered em but I do like the through tenon look


----------



## BHolcombe

> Hi William,
> 
> Thank you! Much appreciated. I own a handful of power tools; A Minimax 20MM bandsaw, a router table, festool track saw, festool sander and festool OF1400 router.
> 
> I have owned the bandsaw for one week, and so I haven t used it for much of anything (awaiting DC install…errr….DC purchase then install  ) But i plan to use it for heavy ripping, currently I do that with a Disston 4TPI saw but it s a killer on high volume projects to rip by hand.
> 
> The Sander I use for drywall, works well for that.
> 
> The track saw I use to rip sheet goods on the odd occasion that I am using them, and or to rip along the grain of a board, which is easier done with the track saw than many other options.
> 
> The OF1400 mostly remains in its case, but I break it out occasion for odd-jobs.
> 
> I use the router table for grooving in situations where I dont have an appropriate plane.
> 
> In the future I will likely buy a thickness planer and possible a jointer. The trouble with power tools is that I really only like industrial type which are problematic in that they re expensive, they re extremely heavy and they re generally large.
> 
> I had been considering a 20" wide J/P for a while….up until the point that I realized I can t actually fit it into my auxiliary shop (the garage) and if I did manage to, it would likely crack the concrete pad. It takes up 10 of space!
> 
> - BHolcombe
> 
> Thanks for that - I just wanted to get another take on the balance of hand/machine work. As I said previously, I do want to concentrate on hand tools, but sometimes it seems to make too much sense to save some butt-busting effort with a machine (I do have an older planer that has saved me so much work on the laminations of my in-progress bench) and we ultimately need to feel it out for ourselves.
> 
> - WillliamMSP


It's good to understand the process and then you can use machines how you see fit. For instance…prepping slabs, if you can work with winding sticks and straight edges then you can use an electric handheld planer and do it fast(er) than the majority of methods.

Or if you are handy with your marking gauges and reference faces, then you can use your bandsaw to rip tenons and so forth.

It's important to know how, like prepping surfaces, using your plane to success, sawing straight by hand, ect. That way you can rely upon yourself and not your machines. Hand tools are excellent in many areas and only topped by a rare group of top quality machines in those areas.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

ON the DTs. just practice first. If you can, cut the pieces long to start. If you jack up a side, cut of the pins or tails you jacked and get the board down to the size you wanted anyway.

Consider a Barron style DT guide if you're not opposed.



> Thanks for all the encouragement, I think I ll go with it. I m still not sure on the adjustable shelves look, I like the idea of solid shelves and always have for a one reason.
> 
> - Nic


On bookshelves, I like one fixed shelf for strength. Some where around the middle depending on the shelf layout.


----------



## NicHartman

I can live with less fixed shelves I think but I'm not sure what kinds of hidden shelf adjustment systems they're talking about? I'm not really a fan of the holes myself.


----------



## rad457

Did my daughter's Oak bookshelf with fixed shelves, but as hard as I have tried to avoid it been talked into a commission piece and of course they want adjustable shelves. What I am going to do is position shelve where I think it should be and add a couple of holes below for adjustment if required.


----------



## PPK

Nic, I've always thought it would be cool to do this "sawtooth" method of adjustable shelves. Maybe this is way out there and you're not interested, but its an idea anyway…

I've never taken the time, and use holes and pins.


----------



## bearkatwood

Finally got the bench done. Happy with how it turned out. The cat seemed happy with it too. Even though she is such a grump in this picture. I think she is mad I am not giving her a steak and a massage.



















Have a great day all!


----------



## WillliamMSP

That bench looks awesome - very nice!


----------



## NicHartman

The saw tooth doesn't look bad but I'm not doing any face frame so I'd have to do it in another configuration, maybe inset in the sides?


----------



## JayT

Looks amazing, Brian. Hope the cat doesn't take her grump out on the legs or seats.


----------



## bearkatwood

If she did she would be made into mittens


----------



## CL810

Bench is fantastic Brian.

How do you figure weight limits on a bench like that?


----------



## bobasaurus

That looks great (and comfortable) Brian. Did you hand carve the back/arms?


----------



## summerfi

That bench is spectacular Brian. I like it a lot. Do you do all hand carving, or use a machine of some sort?


----------



## bearkatwood

I used machines for most of the joinery and milling, but once the carcass was assembled nothing with power touched it. It was all hand work, which I really prefer for finish work and carving.
On weight limits it is a balancing act, you want it to look delicate, but not be delicate.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> ...look delicate, but not be delicate.
> 
> - bearkatwood


^That's how people describe me all the time.

That bench is outstanding.


----------



## BHolcombe

Nice work!


----------



## theoldfart

Delicate? Red? Not the way I would describe BRK, maybe big honking' dude, the Big Guy, maybe even humongous, but delicate? Nah.  Talented but not really delicate. Sorry big guy, didn't want you to labor under false assumptions!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

You know me too well Kev.

Upholstery shop called. Picking up the Morris Chair tomorrow.

Christmas came early…..


----------



## bobasaurus

I'm still waiting to see you use those rasps, Red. You going to make some handles for them?


----------



## bondogaposis

That bench is really sweet! Nice work.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I m still waiting to see you use those rasps, Red. You going to make some handles for them?
> 
> - bobasaurus


Heh, sorry for the buildup, I'll tinker this weekend. Hate to put a review on LJs without a little more time with them. Sent a saw file and rasp Bob's way. Be interested in what he thinks.

I bought a couple Corridi handles. Ran about $7, and they're pretty nice. Better than Gramercy for sure, but they do need the hole drilled.

Here's the best rasp breakdown I've seen. Still no US options. Thinkin LV should try to carry Corradi. The Ajax look like Todd stiched 'em.

https://www.canadianwoodworking.com/half-round-cabinet-rasps


----------



## duckmilk

Thanks for the link Red


----------



## DanKrager

I like the old adj shelf "brackets" PPK showed. I've seen and made them with half round ends on the shelf support that mate with half round notches in the stiles. The more modern hidden adjustable shelf hardware uses 1/8" diameter holes that virtually disappear in darker wood finishes. 
Just some options.
DanK


----------



## jmartel

Brian, does your cat have opposable thumbs? Looks like it in that photo. Also, my wife is grumpy when I don't give her steak and a massage as well.

Well done on the bench.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Back from the upholstery dude, and home where she belongs.










I'll write up something on the build tomorrow.


----------



## bearkatwood

That looks great Red. Mighty fine work sir! Love those front legs, is that your design?
Jmartel, everyone could use a steak and massage now and then  Thanks.


----------



## BHolcombe

Nice!!


----------



## bondogaposis

Whoa, Red that chair looks mighty inviting. I'd love to be able to crack a beer and watch a football game in that. Making one of those is moving up on my list after I finish a few shop projects.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks fellas.

You won't regret building one Bondo.



> That looks great Red. Mighty fine work sir! Love those front legs, is that your design?
> Jmartel, everyone could use a steak and massage now and then  Thanks.
> 
> - bearkatwood


Not my design Brian. I speak to that in the Blog:
http://www.westfallwoodcraft.com/2016/12/onken-morris-chair.html


----------



## dbray45

Brian and Red - seriously nice work

The bench is awesome, love the carving.

The chair should be in my living room - just saying.


----------



## bearkatwood

Thanks very much. Reds chair did turn out great. On to the next project, whatever that is. I have no idea yet, still playing catchup on saw orders.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks David. I'm anxious to get the Harry Potter themed Xmas tree out of my chair's official spot. Thinking about a side table with a floating top to rest between them in the future.

Wasn't joking about my wife's "other" tree. I always had a thing for cute nerdy girls. Maybe I watched too much Blossom as a kid.


----------



## BHolcombe

Hah, that is quite the tree-topper Red!

PROPER SPAM:

In part two of this series I build the supporting frame made to allow the mirror to use a wall cleat rather than rely upon the original hooks.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2016/12/22/nakashima-widdicomb-restoration-part-deux/


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Brian. Enjoyed the Bridal joint vid.

At a design crossroads on the bookcase. I hadn't planned on a face frame with the doors….but I think I'm needing something.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Funny how a new joint in your arsenal (domino) expands your joinery options. Not sure how I would have attached these legs otherwise.


----------



## BHolcombe

Red looks good, you can support it along the sides with battens terminating with tenons as well.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Brian. I ran a rail across the bottom in hopes to reinforce the legs….

I realize the grain orientation isn't ideal for legs, but the grain is stunning. I made them thicker than first designed. Hopefully the risk is calculated.

More of a wall-hanging than furniture, but a cool project.


----------



## TheFridge

Still plodding along. Hopefully the glue pot will come in soon so I can finally get the drawers together.








http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag394/andrewfridge/IMG7467_zps4c204557.jpg!


----------



## BHolcombe

I want one!


----------



## PPK

Merry Christmas all!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The tree is gone. Our reading room is established. Where's all the Lost Art Press books I've been meaning to read.

Me thinks it could use a better table between the chairs. Maybe one of those floating table-toppers.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Looks nice, Big Red One! A relaxing place to enjoy a bourbon at the end of the day.


----------



## TheFridge

> Me thinks it NEEDS a better table between the chairs. Maybe one of those floating table-toppers.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


 There you go. Fixed it.










2 drawers hide glued up. I think I'm really gonna like this hide gluing stuff. Was a surprisingly strong bond on the test piece after 15 minutes.

This is also the kind of stuff I imagined doin with a #1. Gets the job done and I don't have to worry about too much pressure.


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, count me as a hide glue convert. Either hot or the liquid if I'm feeling lazy and don't feel like getting the glue pot going.


----------



## woodcox

Saw bench and a doily, Red?
Great reading spot.

Very nice fridge.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Well, you guys have any good source for A&C hardware? These hickory pulls and LV hinges are a bit cheesy for the piece I'm working on.


----------



## bondogaposis

BRK, Rockler has a about a good of a selection of A & C hardware that I've found. Also check Van *************************. Horton Brasses has some nice ones in there Macintosh collection, very spendy though.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Bondo. I'm gonna have to check out some options. I got some hinges from LV, but man there is a lot of play/slop in them. Hickory knobs from the borg don't bother me, but those steel stamped pulls are pretty cheese for something I've worked that hard on.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Haven't checked this thread since well before Christmas, man everyone's stuff is terrific.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

These Macintosh hinges are awesome. But you're right bondo, $400+ for hinges might put me a tad over budget. Shoot, that's more than I spent on all the walnut


----------



## CL810

I've been disappointed with LV hardware several times as well. Very leery.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'm pretty sure LV, rockler, Van *************************, borgs….all get these stamped hinges from the same place. Frustrated that I can't find a middle ground between $5…and $75.

http://www.rockler.com/non-mortise-hinges-without-finial


----------



## Mosquito

You and me both Red. When I was building the shadowbox for my dad I ended up going with Brusso hinges for $$ because I couldn't bring myself to use the cheap $3.99 stamped chinese hinges I could get otherwise. A solid $20-$30 pair of hinges that were decent, but not as crazy as the Brusso or other high end hardware would be nice


----------



## theoldfart

I have yet to see hardware as nice as the Brusso. I used them on a keepsake box for my sons wedding and a jewelry box for my daughter.


----------



## Mosquito

I agree Kevin, Brusso is worth every penny, it's just whether or not you can justify those pennies on the project. On a project a friend wanted me to make he said "Get the best hinges you can", so I linked him some Brusso: "Nevermind" lol


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, Brusso's and the like are great. It's just interesting that' there's nothing between $70 and $5 cheapos. Van ************************* are $10-15, but they look the same as the LVs.


----------



## JADobson

I've used Brusso's once on a box for my sister, incredible. If you need small hinges these ones from LV aren't quite as good as Brusso but are definitely a lot better than the hardware store cheapos and a bit easier on the pocketbook.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?cat=3,41241,41249&p=40468


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Those look decent quality, but I dislike the look of brass. I bought these ones. They're just ok:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=40232&cat=3,41241,41249

However you got me diggin on LV. These should be better. Made in 'merica!
http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=50397&cat=3,41241,41249&ap=1

edit: found some A&C drop pulls too. Now I'm cookin with bacon.

I'll let you guys know if the US no-mortise hinges are better.


----------



## bondogaposis

I'm starting an ottoman. I got the legs milled and mortised. Happy New Year everyone.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Back at ya bondo.

The view….if ya stand on my bench


----------



## jmartel

Looking good, Red. I'm looking forward to seeing it with the finish to pop all that gnarly grain.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Found this design in my shop. Evidently my daughter finished the design on my current piece….and started drawing out her future jewelry box. 









Here's the doors for the bookcase. I'm diggin 'em.


----------



## CL810

Slick.


----------



## PPK

Cute. that's just what my daughter does. I time "notes" on lots of my lumber…


----------



## PPK

find. Not time.


----------



## CL810

Anybody familiar with Jet's combo jointer/planer JJP-12? Looking to pull the trigger with the 15% off special in a couple of days.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Don't know anything about them Andy. Can you get it with a helical head? (highly recommended). Also, is there much difference in cost to go to 15"?


----------



## CL810

Jet only goes to 12" Grizzly has a 16" but is way more than I want to spend. Definitely getting the helical head. I put one in my 735.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I have a lot of Jet equipment and don't have anything bad to say about them. 15" is nice, but boards can be ripped, planed, and then jointed. It is nice to have a bigger planer though not necessary. I've often wondered if the trade off for space vs the trouble of setup on a dual purpose machine would be worth it. Let me know!


----------



## CL810

Ya Paul, it's a concern. I've watched several you tube videos and the only concern I have with the change over is the planer table has to be raised and lowered for switches. Otherwise, it seems to be the easiest of all the combos I've looked at.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> Anybody familiar with Jet s combo jointer/planer JJP-12? Looking to pull the trigger with the 15% off special in a couple of days.
> 
> - CL810


I have a buddy that I'm pretty sure has that model. He's a member here, I'll see if I can solicit some feedback.


----------



## BHolcombe

Red, Loving the table and chairs, real nice. And the cabinet, those doors are cool!

I'll probably buy a Minimax J/P this year (at some point) or Felder. I really wish that a 20" version was more available in single phase, irks me to give up 4" of planer capacity after paying for the ability to resaw it. I've searched and either I give up some jointer capacity and buy a separate planer, or retain that and buy a combo.

I'm undecided as to wether or not to buy a 16" jointer and then a separate planer, once you pay that much for a jointer the combo machine is practically throwing a free planer at you, if you give up a few inches of jointer table length.

This is going into a one car garage, so a few inches of jointer length, while not ideal, certainly isn't entirely a negative.

BTW, machine tools are stupid expensive, once I finally bite the bullet I'll have eclipsed every handtool purchase I've made in 10 years.

Building a wall hanging cabinet.

...For real this time, this one is actually going onto a wall

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2017/01/04/wall-mounted-media-console%EF%BB%BF/

Enjoy, I look forward to your comments.


----------



## CL810

Thanks BD!


----------



## duckmilk

Brian, beautiful work and craftsmanship on the wall cabinet. I have a question, do you drive your wife nuts with your attention to detail?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Brian. I've got a turntable stand build coming up that will be something like that.

Well, these hinges from LV are definitely better quality than the no-mortise Hickory/Borg imports. No slop in the action. Prolly tell a little by this pic. Cheapos on the left:









I'll have to remember those. I missed these because I was only looking for no-mortise hinges. These don't bear the name, but are the same thickness and could be used as such.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Me: Alright Emma, what do you want to make this shelf for your room out of (oak plywood in the back of my mind). 
Emma: I want solid cherry. 
Me: Geez. Any other options?
Emma: Ok, cocobolo. 
Me: lol. Cocobolo rosewood is like $60 a board foot. 
Emma: So?

We settled on a figured walnut cutoff. Woodworker kids have it rough.


----------



## Hammerthumb

That's so funny Red.


----------



## bobasaurus

You know she really wants Brazilian rosewood. Or waterfall bubinga.


----------



## bearkatwood

That's what happens when you give the client options Red, next time tell her CDX


----------



## JADobson

I have the opposite problem. I say, lets use oak (or walnut or any hardwood), and my wife says pine will look just fine.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ya, I wonder how many nine-year old girls could identify cocobolo….lol.

Still plugging away on that walnut bookcase. Everything is going pretty well. (they don't always on pieces I design).

Doors are ready for finish:









I used some figure walnut for the arches. Turned out well:









Also ordered some wavy/antique looking glass.

And milled up back slats.. They're waiting on shellac (sealcoat) run. I live so darn far from everywhere.


----------



## BHolcombe

Red, Those doors are super cool!



> Brian, beautiful work and craftsmanship on the wall cabinet. I have a question, do you drive your wife nuts with your attention to detail?
> 
> - duckmilk


...For many reasons, but not usually attention to detail.  She doesn't seem to mind, especially now that I am devoted to client projects and not to replacing stuff I hate around the house (that does drive her nuts). She enjoys the result but not the process.



> Good stuff Brian. I ve got a turntable stand build coming up that will be something like that.
> 
> Well, these hinges from LV are definitely better quality than the no-mortise Hickory/Borg imports. No slop in the action. Prolly tell a little by this pic. Cheapos on the left:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ll have to remember those. I missed these because I was only looking for no-mortise hinges. These don t bear the name, but are the same thickness and could be used as such.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Thank you! Looking forward to the turntable build.


Update:* I've completed the sliding doors on the wall-mounted media console and have detailed parts of the process previously covered in brief. I hope that you enjoy reading the article and I look forward to your comments.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2017/01/11/wall-mounted-media-console-hikido/


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Dang Brian. That's Matthew Wolfe quality shizzle right there.

Onto the back of my bookcase. My sawyer strangely had a stack of 3/8" walnut awhile back. I bought all I could….because I loathe resawing. At least with my setup.










Somewhere along the way I sorta swore of plywood. Not even sure when that happened.


----------



## BHolcombe

3/8 walnut! What a find!

I know the feeling, I've moved from plywood for furniture use.

Thanks for such high praise!


----------



## jmartel

Nicely done, Brian. Not my personal style of furniture, but dang do you make it look good.


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks J!


----------



## bearkatwood

Hey guys and gals. I just posted my finale to my chair making series. It only took me six months to finish the video as I was waiting for pictures from the other side of the job. It was a collaboration where I made the chairs and another maker made the table. Turned out good I think. I can't remember it has been so long, but if you like give it a watch. You might have to start over at #1 like I did 
Have a great week!





View on YouTube

Thanks for watching. Please subscribe if you haven't already.


----------



## bobasaurus

Nice video Brian. I liked watching all the chair building steps. Do you thin the finish before wiping on? Is it water or oil based?


----------



## bearkatwood

I had to coordinate the finish to match with the table so we used General arm r seal finish. Then my usual bees wax rub afterward.


----------



## BHolcombe

Awesome videos Brian


----------



## bearkatwood

Thank you very much.


----------



## bondogaposis

Great video Brian, I just ordered one of your scrapers, because they are just what I need. I love your chair design as well.


----------



## bearkatwood

Hey great! Thanks, I see you are another Montanan. I hail from Missoula. I will get it sent out today. Thanks again.


----------



## TheFridge

Finally done. i mainly wanted to try small cabriole legs but I learned a bunch of other things along the way as well.

Shellac brushes on well, pore filling on something like this is a B, buy enough wood to start with, shooting boards and bench hooks are awesome, hide glue is as advertised, etc. I could really go on.

Padauk, maple and coco.



























Now I get to cringe every time my 3yo picks it up to show it to me.








It's blurry because she's in the process of dropping it. Thank god the wifey was there.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Nice Fridge! Between the half-blinds and that stripey maple, I'd always leave a drawer open to ogle it more. What's your girl going to keep in it?


----------



## bearkatwood

great work fridge, hope it makes it through.


----------



## CFrye

Beautiful job, Fridge!


----------



## gargey

What was wrong with cherry?



> Me: Alright Emma, what do you want to make this shelf for your room out of (oak plywood in the back of my mind).
> Emma: I want solid cherry.
> Me: Geez. Any other options?
> Emma: Ok, cocobolo.
> Me: lol. Cocobolo rosewood is like $60 a board foot.
> Emma: So?
> 
> We settled on a figured walnut cutoff. Woodworker kids have it rough.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice work Fridge!


----------



## bondogaposis

Nice looking jewelry chest, Fridge, those feet really stand out.


----------



## DanKrager

Fridge, I built a large cherry hand carved Cheval beveled mirror for my daughter and it's a joy to see how she treasures it. But it was a wedding gift, so she was old enough to appreciate it as more than a toy. Patience, man. She will eventually treasure this fine heirloom and protect it with her life, but it's gonna take awhile. It really is a worthy piece. Spend time with her…it's precious…and help her protect it while you teach her about life. She's cute, too.

DanK


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks guys and girls.

Bill, probably her princess Sofia jewelry. A 'Mater tow truck. And some other sundry junk.

Yeah DanK, it's gonna be a struggle but I think I'm gonna make it


----------



## summerfi

Fridge, you continually amaze. Beautiful job.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks bob. I could say the same of your saws.


----------



## BHolcombe

Very beautiful work, nice to start them off on the right foot. She will need to be carefully with it and do that will be a wonderful learning experience other kids won't have.

I have an almost 2 yr old boy so I know the cringe! ...Smear half eaten bananas onto papa's bubinga cabinet…hey why not! My wife likes to occasionally buy toys that are like a small wrecking ball…why!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The top of the dovetailed case wasn't completely flush with the legs. Glad I didn't have to resort to a belt sander for something like this. 









Wuddya think about the proportions for the top? Over 1" thick right now.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> It s blurry because she s in the process of dropping it. Thank god the wifey was there.
> 
> - TheFridge


Haha, sorry, I would seriously hate for that to happen but I did laugh. Great job, you should be proud.

Red, wonderful case. That top doesn't look out of proportion in the photo, if you're asking about thickness only?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thickness and overhang. I tend to over analyze such things.

The finish is poppin…


----------



## Hammerthumb

Hard to tell on my phone Red, but I think the overhang is a bit much for the thickness of the top. I think the top should be a little thicker. Just my opinion.


----------



## JayT

^ +1 to Paul on both counts


----------



## CL810

Some molding would make the top appear thicker and tie it in to the cabinet. Can't see how much it overhangs in the front +1 to Paul on the sides.


----------



## ColonelTravis

+1 to Paul for pointing out there were overhangs on the sides. I didn't even see them on my phone!
+1 for a visit to the eye doctor.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Interesting. I definitely don't like 3/4" tops on such pieces like you'll see at the furniture marts.

I'm thinkin the overhang is a bit much. I'd have to go up to 6/4 or more for a thicker top. I'll have to tinker with it. My design process is much different from sketchup.


----------



## Hammerthumb

+1 with Andy no the molding.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Red - just curious about the Arm-R-Seal and that kind of walnut. Did you use anything else in the finishing or just that stuff?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Should say yes on the molding^. Stupid phone!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red - just curious about the Arm-R-Seal and that kind of walnut. Did you use anything else in the finishing or just that stuff?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


I generally use at least one coat of dewaxed shellac (thinned zinnser sealcoat product) on everything. I find this shows defects, glue spots….and seals pores so the finish builds faster. I did that with this walnut, but that coat has been mostly hand sanded off by the time I got to the arm-r-seal. These parts have been handled and clamped a lot since that first coat.

So, I will wipe on 3 or 4 coats of arm-r-seal, then I will wet sand with a very fine grit and Howards feed'n was. Buff and done.

I did spend the extra for the arm-r-seal because I knew it would display the figure nicely. Shellac does too…but I dislike glossy finishes.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Thanks, I use Arm-R-Seal a lot and like the same kind of finish look as you but I've never put shellac on before it. I'll try that on the figured stuff I have next time.


----------



## pintodeluxe

Red, I like the thick top. That is working for you and looks great. Keep it thick with plenty of overhang.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, I like the thick top. That is working for you and looks great. Keep it thick with plenty of overhang.
> 
> - pintodeluxe


Ha! There's my A&C style brethren chiming in. I always lean towards that style too. I'll give the wifey the options.


----------



## DanKrager

> I always lean towards that style too. I ll give the wifey the options.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


That right there is your biggest design flaw. You put all that work into it and you let outside input influence what you pretty much know is right for the piece! What if she says I want 1/4" fir plywood on top? Now that would be marital discord at its finest, wouldn't it? HA! he says while yanking on chain….
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

"he says while yanking on chain…"

depends on what that chain is attached to!


----------



## TheFridge

Well. It almost made a week. Guess I need to learn how to repair.

Then to the highest point in the room it goes.

Nothing escapes the wrath of a threenager.


----------



## bearkatwood

Ouch.


----------



## woodcox

I know the feeling, fridge. Nice work there if I haven't said. Mine has broken just about every thing I've made her. She will have to wait for nice things.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks bud. I know now.

Next time I'll just booby trap it until she's 18.


----------



## ColonelTravis

ACK! now I feel bad when I said I laughed about her almost dropping it.
Man, I'm sorry about that.


----------



## TheFridge

no worries. 3yo's break stuff. 'Tis life. Only wish I got hide glue in Time to use it on the case. Would make life easier. Now to figure out if hide glue will stick to Pva and learn a little something about repair work.


----------



## gargey

Definitely much less overhang.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ahh crud. Might be a little young for that nice of a gift. Sorry man.

Somewhat related….That moment when you drop a one-of-a-kind finished door resulting in a huge dent. That moment can only be laughed about when you quickly realize that you were going to put the cabinet handle there anyway. LOL. Clean livin folks, clean livin.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I teak these will be involved in my next build.


----------



## summerfi

Where'd you get the teak Red? Those are nice wide boards.


----------



## johnstoneb

The sign of a craftsman. when you are able to hide a defect or make it part of the design.
Where did the teak come from. I priced that for a boat cockpit cover and diecided I didn't like my SIL that much and went with Iroko at $10.50 a bf.


----------



## bobasaurus

I hate dinging projects, happens to me nearly every time from some dumb slip up.

Check out this neato piece of kingwood I got today:


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The boards belong to a guy I work with. They're 1 1/4" thick and over 16" wide. We've got to come up with some design for an entryway table. Should be a fun little commission.


----------



## PPK

Here's a plug for Lee Valley: I spent my Christmas tool money at Lee Valley and ordered a round-bottom spokeshave and their beading tool… Arched rails with beads, here I come! Anyway, the orders got delayed a bit (10 days or so) and in both orders they send a $10 gift card to make up. Their customer service is excellent, and their tools are awesome quality too.










Bobasaurus, what're you using your kingwood for? I've never seen it before - looks almost like darkened zebrawood.


----------



## JayT

Nice wood porn, guys.

Red, can't wait to see what you come up with for a design with that teak. We all know you'll do it justice.

Allen, I'm drooling over that kingwood. You got plans for it or just an opportunistic grab?


----------



## bobasaurus

No plans for that board at the moment, I'll have to use it carefully. Stuff is damn expensive. But it's one of the best-looking woods in my opinion. The figure is tight enough I could cut it into smaller pieces for knife scales, etc, or I could resaw and bookmatch the whole board into a fancy box top or cabinet door or something.


----------



## WhoMe

That kingwood looks allot like bocote. Wonderful woods


----------



## byerbyer

Thanks to a recent ice storm I came into some lumber recently myself… still a bit green though. 

















American Elm tree roughly 40" in diameter & 7' to the bottom of the crotch. The other tree was closer to 50" in diameter but it had lots of rot… I have a call in to a local-ish sawyer that will pick it up and slab it for me.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

"Don't judge me by my backside. I'm more than a trunk with a rump ya know." #ifourfurniturecouldtalk


----------



## PPK

What kind of glue do you guys use for bent laminations? I have hide glue, TB 1, 2 & 3 on hand… any of these work? I've heard yellow glues creep and I think TB is under this category, no?


----------



## jmartel

You could always use epoxy.


----------



## byerbyer

PVA glue remains pliable after it sets so it will be more likely to spring back.

Epoxy, polyurethane glues (gorilla glue), plasitc resin, or hide glue would be my choice as more rigid after curing.


----------



## CL810

This works well. Has a fairly long work time.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yet to do glue-lams. I've always just cut stuff out of thicker stock.

Guys on the shop thread recommended some wavy/antique looking glass for this piece. I couldn't find any old stuff big enough, but I was able to get some reproduction stuff. It's a bit wavier than I wanted…but I still think it adds to the piece.


----------



## duckmilk

> Well. It almost made a week. Guess I need to learn how to repair.
> 
> Nothing escapes the wrath of a threenager.
> 
> - TheFridge


Well, at least we got to see it before ;-) Sorry Fridge.


----------



## 489tad

I used gorilla glue on a guitar stand. Bent lams still holding shape.


----------



## jmartel

I thought PVA glues were a no-no on laminations because they have a tendency to foam and expand opening up gaps?


----------



## JADobson

I think Fine Woodworking just had an article about Gorilla glue and laminations which said it was very stiff and didn't allow the wood to bounce back the same way regular wood glue does. I've never done it myself but I think the article was in this year's tools and shop issue.


----------



## bearkatwood

I have never had a problem with pva on bent laminations, if you have any doubts at all go with a plastic resin glue. That would be the best choice for a glue lam.


----------



## PPK

Thanks all. I think I'll go with plastic resin. I really don't like gorilla glue - foams and makes a huge mess. Or else I'll steam bend!


----------



## bearkatwood

Good choices both.


----------



## bearkatwood

I have never been a fan of gorilla glue myself either.


----------



## DanKrager

Hide glue does not creep. Not liking GG myself, I'd go with hide. I've not had trouble with creep using TBIII, but the lams were trapped and could not creep.

DanK


----------



## woodcox

Table salt can be use to fight creep.


----------



## bearkatwood

and witches  lOl


----------



## DanKrager

I've never heard of using table salt to minimize creep. If that's the case then wouldn't any fine crystaliine abrasive work?

DanK


----------



## Pezking7p

GG Bonds to finished surfaces…but other than that it sucks.

Never heard of PVA glues creeping, at least not TB.

Another consideration: Color matching. Make sure your intended glue doesn't show up horribly after lamination.


----------



## PPK

Hmmm… good point Pez, I'm doing Walnut (No stain, just Danish oil and Poly). Hide glue matches pretty well with Walnut. What color is the Plastic Resin, guys? I only have 3/4" walnut on hand, and need a 1" chair arm, so that's why I'm entertaining gluelam, but I may just go buy some 5/4 walnut and steam it…


----------



## Pezking7p

I think all the resins should dry clear (any polyester resins may yellow over time) but overall I think they will appear "dark" if they are visible at all.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Hide glue does look/work great with walnut. Shoot, it's a good filler for DT gaps and such.


----------



## bearkatwood

But you wouldn't know right RED, your dovetails never need it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Exactly Brian

As I've said, this is the first totally solid wood (dovetailed) case I've made. I guess I overestimated the rigidity in keeping it square. I discovered this in final install of my doors. They weren't fitting the same way as they did prior to finish. The case got off somewhere during finishing and installing the back slats.

So, I had to install a diagonal brace. Fixed the problem. 









Didn't look as bad after I put some shellac on it.

Also, I used to wonder why people made such a big deal about General Finishes Arm-r-Seal. I gave it another shot on this project. It does make figured wood look great. 









This is about the biggest size project I would use it on though. Wiping several coat so of this stuff on a dining set or the like would take forever.


----------



## PPK

I'm tempted to try spraying arm-r-seal… It's thin enough! I agree, wiping on gets old.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I think you could spray it lightly and wipe off the excess later.


----------



## BHolcombe

Red, that is looking sweet! For a future build, here are some thoughts;

The rigidity issue can be solved by adding a step behind the doors, which brings up the case bottom a few inches, and allows you the room to run some members across the bottom.

The same can be done for the top. Just a few inches can add a lot of rigidity.

If you break the back up with some tall cross pieces, they will also help significantly.


----------



## BHolcombe

Finished the wall-mounted credenza;

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2017/01/26/wall-mounted-media-console-final/


----------



## WillliamMSP

^^^ awesome work, yet again, Brian.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Very nice credenza Brian. Another piece well done.


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks gents!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Brian. Finished mine too.


----------



## bobasaurus

That is one heck of a bookcase.


----------



## WhoMe

Red, beautiful work and amazing wood for that bookcase.
Your skills and beautiful projects never cease to amaze me.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks guys, I've come a long ways. I'll this moment to show you how awesome this joint (filled with wood putty) looks on one of my first pieces.










I could fix it, but it keeps me humble. lolol


----------



## BHolcombe

Bookcase looks great!


----------



## duckmilk

Brian, the credenza looks great. One question: in the video, I see you dipping your mortise chisel in something. What are you using?

Beautiful Red!


----------



## TheFridge

KY. Oh yeah….


----------



## duckmilk

^Ha!


----------



## bearkatwood

Great project and short video Brian, I was wondering if this was what you were using for the mortising? I was guessing from that mad Fonz hair you were sporting. LOL "Haaayyyy"










No offence, great stuff Brian! All jokes aside. You are a master for sure.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Heh, I use American Crew pomade for my lovely locks.

And this, this is an ogre sawing dovetails….in skateboarding shoes.


----------



## bearkatwood

That is style my friend!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That's how I roll my friend. My daughter took that pic, and it makes me laugh at how big I must seem to her. That Joinery bench is 46" high.

Skateboarding shoes for wood working shouldn't be underrated. They have a big, cushioned tongue. I wear size 15, so there's been a couple times when that featured has come in handy when I drop a board or tool on my foot…lol


----------



## bearkatwood

Size 15!! good night brother!! Them's some big clogs


----------



## TheFridge

Hell yeah. Vans are my go to and have been for about 17-18 years now.


----------



## theoldfart

They look like big honkin' Nurse Ratchet shoes Red.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Lol Kev. All white wasn't my first choice….but the options are limited in my size.

DTs were for my shop princesses jewelry box. I've put her off long enough. Birdseye maple and….purpleheart (sigh). I think purpleheart is hideous….but she loves it.


----------



## bearkatwood

and battleship gray !


----------



## PPK

Cowboy boots all the way… no tying involved, and they keep out the sawdust.


----------



## johnstoneb

Red
Just tell your daughter NO.

I can't say it to my daughter or daughter in law maybe someone else can.


----------



## Iguana

I've been working on a dining room table for my wife over the last year. Paying work kept getting in the way of finishing it, but I had a spare week this week. Discovered the top had gone and done this:










15" crack on account of my shop being extra dry this winter. The sides are curved so I couldn't just rip out the crack on the TS. The split was clean, so I decided to force some glue into the seam and clamp it:










Added some butterflies on the underside for reinforcement, too:










Might just get it out of the shop this week!


----------



## jmartel

You could also drill out most of the way through the end of crack on the underside. and plug it with a dowel to remove the stress concentration. But it looks like you put the inner butterfly over the end of the crack anyway so it's a moot point.

Sapele? I've got some 8/4 stuff sitting in my house right now that is going to be a benchtop for our entryway. Rest of the cabinets are ikea since the wife wants to do it all and I have no time to build the cabinets myself.


----------



## PPK

Am I going to regret this later on?










I used a lock miter joint to make 2-1/4" post of the Morris chair that I'm starting. (My Christmas present. I get to build something for ME!) Any way, my logic is that I don't like the look of glue-lines and the laminated look that I'd have to have it I glued up a solid blank for the legs…

I'm going to try through tenons for the joinery.


----------



## DanKrager

Pete, that is my joint of preference for legs, casework, just about anything with a long glue joint like that. No, you won't regret it for any technical reason. You can put a well fitted piece in the center in the joint end and in the foot end to close the "mouse passage".
Do you have one of those neat little setup jigs for the lock miter cutter? I have a shaper cutter and this particular jig won't work for it, so I have to try to make one sometime.
DanK


----------



## Iguana

> You could also drill out most of the way through the end of crack on the underside. and plug it with a dowel to remove the stress concentration. But it looks like you put the inner butterfly over the end of the crack anyway so it s a moot point.
> 
> Sapele? I ve got some 8/4 stuff sitting in my house right now that is going to be a benchtop for our entryway. Rest of the cabinets are ikea since the wife wants to do it all and I have no time to build the cabinets myself.
> 
> - jmartel


In that pic the end of the crack was somewhere near the router. I couldn't really determine the exact end of the crack as it fell at the transition between two of the ribbon stripes. No real distinct end point. Don't think that there is an issue with stress concentration there, anyways. Pretty clear it was due to fast shrinkage at the end of the slab.

Yup, Sapele. Love working with the stuff but my supplier seems to have problems getting crack- or check-free 8/4 boards lately. When I got the load for this table, had to send half the 8/4 back due to obvious radial cracks. And and thing on another load I picked up last fall.


----------



## PPK

Dan,
Nope, no setup jigs. This is my first time trying the lock miter, actually. It is a little bit finnicky to get just right. I plan to save a piece that I cut, and use that as a jig for setting up next time. That should get me close, at any rate.

I don't see any real reason to fill the space - It will be nice to keep the posts a little lighter. I have been accused by my father in law of making furniture with a "strong attraction to gravity." I'll ask someone else to help me move furniture next time… humph


----------



## BHolcombe

> Brian, the credenza looks great. One question: in the video, I see you dipping your mortise chisel in something. What are you using?
> 
> Beautiful Red!
> 
> - duckmilk





> KY. Oh yeah….
> 
> - TheFridge





> Great project and short video Brian, I was wondering if this was what you were using for the mortising? I was guessing from that mad Fonz hair you were sporting. LOL "Haaayyyy"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No offence, great stuff Brian! All jokes aside. You are a master for sure.
> 
> - bearkatwood





> Heh, I use American Crew pomade for my lovely locks.
> 
> And this, this is an ogre sawing dovetails….in skateboarding shoes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


HAHA, you guys are crazy….and the reason why I hang out here. I'm amazed few normally comment on my hair in the videos, I figured youtube would have a field day with with….

Here is my latest.

Good morning! I would like to introduce my latest project. I have been commissioned to build a tea house chair and table. Please have a read and I look forward to your comments.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2017/02/01/tea-house-chair-and-table/


----------



## bearkatwood

I didn't know if I was going over the line with that or not. So what were you dipping into there and how did you hear about doing that?


----------



## pintodeluxe

Pete,
Locking miter bits are great for making hollow legs. I use them all the time.

However, if the legs form through tenons on the armrests, how's that going to work?

I built a Morris chair with solid 12/4 legs. Then I laminated two faces for QS grain all around. Since raising the tenon removes the veneer, the through tenon is just solid wood.










Here are some details on the solid leg method…
http://lumberjocks.com/pintodeluxe/blog/40056

If you stick with the locking miter method, you could make button caps as faux tenons.



















And here is a write up on the button cap technique…
http://lumberjocks.com/pintodeluxe/blog/37286

Either way Morris chairs are so great. A true must-build for all those A&C furniture fans.










Good luck with whatever you decide!


----------



## BHolcombe

> I didn t know if I was going over the line with that or not. So what were you dipping into there and how did you hear about doing that?
> 
> - bearkatwood


Well, I have more of a Patrick Bateman haircut than the Fonz, so….

That is my oil pot, it's a bamboo pot, holds an oily rag (not drying oil….) oiled with some kind of oil that is good for this sort of thing. Something similar to mineral oil.

The pot was recommended and detailed by Stan Covington, a good friend and Japanese tool nut.


----------



## ckorkyrun89

I have a joinery question for you guys. I am making a walnut TV stand that is basically a large mitered box that will go on some legs that I am making (see the first picture). My issue is how to best join the miters for a strong joint.










I saw a project that Big Red Knothead did at one point that had a spline joint similar to what I have drawn below. I really liked this approach, but I would try to avoid having the spline showing in the face of the stand.










What are some other ways that might be good to join this?


----------



## bearkatwood

I had to look up Patrick Bateman and now I am going to have crazy visions of you murdering the wood with Japanese toys. Thanks for that scary image  I would have gone with Pony Boy before I went the Psyco rout LOL 
Have you noticed a big difference with mortising with oil vs. without?


----------



## bearkatwood

The coolest way I have seen that joined is with plywood L biscuits and then mortises driven straight in.
For the life of me I can't find the picture of it now, but it is basically some L shaped pieces of plywood that go into mortises driven straight into the mitered end grain.
similar to this but it would be completely enclosed.









Or you could do it this way.









In the video of Tage Frid where he is making his curved front cabinet he uses a dovetail guide template and makes simple straight keys to fit in similar to the picture above.









Again his were completely concealed. Hope some of these help.


----------



## BHolcombe

> I had to look up Patrick Bateman and now I am going to have crazy visions of you murdering the wood with Japanese toys. Thanks for that scary image  I would have gone with Pony Boy before I went the Psyco rout LOL
> Have you noticed a big difference with mortising with oil vs. without?
> 
> - bearkatwood


Haha, it's such a long standing joke locally, my friends enjoy ribbing me WRT the resemblance.

It goes a bit faster with the oil, and best of all makes the chisel easier to remove from the cut.


----------



## PPK

Thanks Pinto. This is very helpful. And I do really like looking thru your projects page - I dig the same style as you. I was *cough cough* fully intending to do the fake tenon caps. With the bent arms, I just think that'll be a little more on par with my ability at this point.


----------



## DanKrager

Pete, I was suggesting that the top several inches (enough to make a strong tenon) and about 1" at the bottom for a plug, not filling the whole leg. This would add about 3 oz of wood… 
And, Bearkatwood, these miter joints Pete is using are very strong and easy to glue up. But if you don't have the cutters, the other suggestions work well. No one has mentioned this yet, but you could use simple miters and cut keys across the finished miter. Adds a bit of decoration as well as strength, but that, too, might not be desirable. Just casting out ideas.
DanK


----------



## Mean_Dean

You could use that spline technique, but do a stopped spline joint, so that it doesn't show on the front. You'll get a strong joint, and not see the joinery.

Basically, set up a stopblock on your tablesaw fence, and cut the grooves, stopping just short of the front (by say 1/4"). Then square up the groove with a small chisel and you're all set.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Interesting stuff on the miter joints. Not a big fan of miters….but I just spline 'em when I do. Blogged my process awhile back: http://lumberjocks.com/BigRedKnothead/blog/38806

I've got 3 or 4 possible commissions up in the air right now. I just can't get anyone to decide on a dang design! First to decide gets there's built first…I guess.


----------



## PPK

Sorry if you're getting tired of questions, guys, but I got another one…

When you do through mortises, do you glue them? I keep thinking to myself that if I put glue in the joint, it will get all over the end of the tenon that sticks through and is visible. The glue won't take a finish obviously….

Do you just slide the tenon in half way, then glue the part closest to the shoulder and finish sliding it in?


----------



## DanKrager

Most of the time when I choose to do through tenons it's because I don't want to glue the joint. I'll drop a tusk into the tenon to secure it. 
You could put painter's tape over the end of the tenon before you stick it into the glued mortise. Painter's tape around the mortise where the tenon exits will protect that surface. There's no future in gluing only half the mortise. If you apply enough glue where there is considerable squeeze out, you either have to clean it up, sooner than later, or apply less glue so there is not so much if any squeeze out to clean up. Or better yet, provide a place for the glue to go that's internal to the joint. A few tapered, tiny v grooves along the cheeks of the tenon, deeper at the shoulder, is probably the best technique I've used for this. The glue hardens into internal wedges. Some people say to undercut the shoulders of the tenon, but that does nothing but weaken the joint as far as I'm concerned, if the undercut is deep enough to accommodate squeeze out that is. A few thousandths undercut to assure a good seat between the shoulder and the leg is a good idea. 
And if you're using hide glue, the cleanup will be easier and less noticeable under the finish. Some are deathly afraid of using water to clean up around a joint, and there is danger of it showing if you've finish sanded before assembly. When I have glue clean up, I make it part of the routine to wipe down the entire surface of the project with a damp rag to raise grain for the final sanding. I generally leave the last bare wood sanding (@220 grit) until after assembly. Rarely have any issues, and never any that aren't repairable.
DanK


----------



## jmartel

PPK, you could also cut it 1/16" long and then plane it flush afterwords. That would get rid of the glue on the end of the tenon.


----------



## TheFridge

> PPK, you could also cut it 1/16" long and then plane it flush afterwords. That would get rid of the glue on the end of the tenon.
> 
> - jmartel


Ditto.

This is the kind of thing I'll go to hide glue for now.


----------



## PPK

Thanks guys. Making a little progress… got some parts cut.


----------



## JayT

Red,

Here's an interesting technique for you (or anyone else that has a Domino) to try.

http://davidbarronfurniture.blogspot.com/2017/02/a-great-way-to-reinforce-mitred-corners.html

Goes right along with the question and suggestions on the mitered corners from a few posts back.


----------



## Mosquito

so it's full blind/mitered dovetails, the festool way lol

It seems like a massive waste of time to me, I'd much rather go for the method that Bearcat posted about, but I'll say that is completely based on speculation of effort, not owning a domino myself.


----------



## PPK

I agree with Mosquito - looks like a pretty intense way of doing things for something that gets covered up and never to be seen again!!

Question: 
In the pic I posted yesterday, you can see I have some pretty wide slats (4.5"). Does anyone thing this'll cause a problem if I glue the tenon all the way across? Or should I just put a dab of glue in the center of the tenon. I'm a little concerned about the lateral wood movement and it being glued in solid on that mortise. I don't want a big ol check down the middle of my nice Hickory slat! I could get away with a dab, as the joints are snug, but not too tight…


----------



## JayT

I don't see an issue with gluing up 4-1/2", as long as each slat has a bit of room to expand, which is what it looks like in the photo. I don't start worrying about seasonal changes until pieces are about twice that wide.

If they were tight together, it would be a different story. In that case, you'd have to treat it as a solid panel and could have issues with the outer ones being pushed too hard and something cracking.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

So, I have this neighbor down the street who said he had some walnut boards from a tree he had cut down 20 years ago. Cleaned him out today. Prolly shouldn't tell ya'll what I paid for the 11 slabs and then some. 









Turntable stand coming up.


----------



## bobasaurus

You're making me cry tears of bitter jealousy, Red. You going to cut it into lumber or do some live-edge work?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That's an option Allen. Need to learn to get the bark of some of it….while leaving that natural edge.


----------



## JayT

Dang, Red. Is all that 4/4? Looks thicker in the pic.


----------



## BHolcombe

Real nice! I need some neighbors like that.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

It's a hefty 4/4. The challenge will be milling those big buggers up. There are a couple that are slightly cupped. I'll probably rip those down the middle. Joint/plane and glue back together. I've done that before. Hard to even tell .


----------



## TheFridge

Sufficient. Hard to see because of the pics but the wary eye wouldnt have trouble picking it out. Need a toothbrush and some spirits to get the wax out the pores. That stuff like to show up white in all the nooks and crannies. Probably the last time I use it on anything other than turnings.


----------



## JayT

> Need a toothbrush and some spirits to get the wax out the pores. That stuff like to show up white in all the nooks and crannies. Probably the last time I use it on anything other than turnings.
> 
> - TheFridge


Have you tried dark paste wax? I use it on walnut and other darker woods to prevent the white residue in pores.


----------



## TheFridge

Looking for some good rasps: corradi gold, auriou, loigier?

Anyone have any experience?

Edit: briwax or something of the such?


----------



## BHolcombe

I have experience with auriou, they are sweeeeet.

Nice repair, time to put that on a high shelf for 25 years or so.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

I have a couple of Auriou. I'll second Brian's opinion.


----------



## bobasaurus

> That s an option Allen. Need to learn to get the bark of some of it….while leaving that natural edge.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Wire wheel on an angle grinder works well for this. It can be aggressive though.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> I have a couple of Auriou. I ll second Brian s opinion.
> 
> - BulldogLouisiana


Thirded.

Fridge, nice save and now you've got history on it to talk about and it's only a few weeks old! Fingers crossed, no more of this kind of added history.

LN is cranking out their hand tool events now, last time I was at one they had Aurious to try out. Do they come close to where you are? If so, check it out. I was lost before that experience. Even now I can sort of guess which grain size does what but I plan on going to the LN event here in a month or so to familiarize myself with them again.


----------



## TheFridge

LN hates the south 

Man I was leaning toward the corradi gold like my fellow ginger has but the testimony for auriou speaks for itself.



> Nice repair, time to put that on a high shelf for 25 years or so.
> 
> - BHolcombe


On a shelf. With an electric fence around it to keep the kids off.


----------



## theoldfart

Auriou for sure. I have three. They do well on these


----------



## bearkatwood

Showing off some great stuff there Oldfart


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks Brian. Once I get this cast off my hand I can get back and finish it. Frustrated right now.


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, try a heat gun to remove the bark. It may be the stuff is too dry to respond to that, but it's worth a try. I'd even drizzle some water on both sides of where the bark attaches to the sap wood and let it soak in for a bit. It works differently on different woods but it's usually successful. It has to get quite hot, so I think what is happening is the steam so generated breaks the bond.

DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Thanks Dan, I'll have to try that.

Fridge, nice job on the restore. I don't think you can lose with any of the hand cut rasps or Corradi gold. I have no regrets with my Corradis. If they were the same price I prolly would've went with Auriou. They're not, but price isn't everything. Bummer we can't go to the local woodworking store and try 'em.


----------



## JayT

> Edit: briwax or something of the such?
> 
> - TheFridge


The dark wax I use is Minwax.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I use Liberon Black Bison^


----------



## TheFridge

I ended up getting the corradi golds. Half round 6 & 10 and round 6 & 10. Time will tell. The literature on the corradi site was pretty convincing.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^There's nothing wrong with wanting to be as cool as me Fridge.


----------



## PPK

Guess I shoulda suggested my budget model:

https://www.amazon.com/Fatmingo-Tapered-Bastard-Rubber-Carving/dp/B01IFJ03MM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1486585363&sr=8-1&keywords=fatmingo+file

The thing works pretty darn well for $12…


----------



## duckmilk

Thanks for the links to the miter joints guys, I have a few small things to make using that type of joint. Red, your setup is really ingenious.

Nice repair Fridge. Now, maker her one out of plywood and nails to use until she gets a little older ;-)

Pete,, thanks for the rasp link. I will eventually get some nicer ones, but for now, I don't have much in the works that would justify nicer quality and the reviews were pretty solid.

Kev, tape some tools to that cast and get to work.


----------



## TheFridge

That's a pretty good idea duck.

PPK, I use something similar to that for rough stuff  unfortunately, the fine stuff requires $

Red, I do wish I was as ginger as ginger as you. Though not having a soul can be detrimental I imagine.


----------



## jmartel

> Red, I do wish I was as ginger as ginger as you. Though not having a soul can be detrimental I imagine.
> 
> - TheFridge


That's a myth, actually, as my wife can confirm. They have 1 freckle for every soul that they steal. So in reality, they tend to have lots of souls.


----------



## byerbyer

So apparently when I let a project drag on for over a year so some details get lost in the shuffle. Like the dimensions of the wide figured piece of walnut you found at the lumberyard that was begging to become drawer fronts… Off to lumberyard for more walnut.

During the last year I've also been looking here and there for pulls that were in keeping with our design and weren't budget busters. No such luck. During the last few weeks I've been kicking around a design idea to work around the potential problem of the drawer fronts being to narrow to fill the opening. Here's what I came up with:









My intention is to run the "rail" either directly behind the drawer front (as shown) to act as the stop, or possibly inset it half an inch or show for a heavier shadow line between it and the drawer front (and prevent tiny fingers from getting pinched in the future.) The top edge of the drawer front will have a slight bevel for the "pull." What do you think?


----------



## jmartel

Would the drawer front be the standard ~3/4" thick? That seems like a bit thin to get a good hold onto. Especially with the stop being there permanently. If the stop wasn't there, then once the drawer opens a bit you can reach into the drawer to pull the rest of the way.


----------



## DanKrager

Byer, that's a good way to address the too narrow issue. I think the drawer would have to glide exceptionally easy and without any hint of sticking for a pull that slight to work. If enough fingers slip off the pull, fingernails will damage the leading edge where it will be painfully obvious. It's also a dust catcher. Pushing down to get grip will increase the friction of resistance to opening.

If you could turn that bevel around so one lifts against it to get grip, then it might work better. The fingernail issue (and dust collector issue) will all but disappear because people will naturally lay their finger under the pull and parallel to it to "grip" it.

I use something like this: Since I bought the cutter for it, I can make it in any wood. This picture shows a recent job where it was cut into the face of the one piece drawer front









Better picture to show the effect:









danK


----------



## byerbyer

Jmart - The front will be 3/4-ish. I'd probably use a traditional stop & set the rail back back so your fingers can curl over the back of the drawer fronts like this: 









I also thought of adding a slight "swoop" but I haven't got the scale right for my eye.

Dan, I agree with everything you say from a engineering aspect & the dust catching aspect but for whatever reason I don't care for that "Rockler" style pull. We've used it on countless cabinets at work and that may be why I've become averse to it. If I had some sweeps I'd think about carving a pull with the bevel flipped but the budget (time & money) are up on this one. At one time I was leaning towards something like these I saw in FWW


----------



## DanKrager

I hear ya, Byer. Doing high style on a low or tight budget ain't easy. Your second picture reminded me of drilling an upward angled hole (or an overlapping pair) with a Forstner and easing the edges with a flap sander (or whatever).

DanK


----------



## duckmilk

Couldn't you make your own wooden pulls from offcuts of the same material?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The "how am I gonna mill up 16 inch wide slabs" conundrum. Despite picking up a baby drum sander recenlty, I still opted to rip 4" off one side. mill….then edge glue them back together. Worked just fine. Pretty tough to see the glue line once cleaned up.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, bit of a staged pic length wise buddy? But your right, can't see see the glue line. Well done.


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## BigRedKnothead

Heh, you trying to make it look longer buddy? lol.

Na, just done scraping the glue on one, while the next was clamped. The glue line is about 3" from the left edge. Happy with this method so far.


----------



## theoldfart

Will need a close up pic to make an informed decision.


----------



## TheFridge

> Will need a close up pic to make an informed decision.
> 
> - theoldfart


Oooh of your 3" of wood!

Edit: I'm sorry…. I just can't help myself…. y'all are lobbing softballs here


----------



## theoldfart

3", another over statement! Southern boys seem to be easily intimidated.


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## WillliamMSP

Fridge can't resist when balls are thrown his way.


----------



## woodcox

Ha!

Byer I like your solution to your problem. Perhaps it would work better at the bottom of the drawer front. Hidden is hidden. Maybe a wide bevel on the top FACE of the drawer front telling the eyes there is no way you can get a grip here, look elsewhere. One would naturally reach under the drawer front face to find your bevel. Less friction especially if the drawer is overloaded. Some thoughts.


----------



## Pezking7p

I'm not personally a fan of pull-less drawers unless there is something stunning on the drawer face. I like the holes in the front best, but they look time consuming. A bevel on the bottom edge is appealing to me, as well.

After a six month hiatus, I'm ready to start making furniture again. Starting with my first steam bending project.

I saw a few YouTube videos where this old timer boat builder is steaming pieces in a long poly bag, right on his mold, and bending the wood onto the mold inside the bag with the steam still going. I want to try this technique because it removes the timing aspect of getting from the steam box into the mold and clamped ASAP, and because it reduces springback because you can continue to steam once the piece is clamped in the mold.

However, the poly tubing he's using, I can't find less than 1000' of it at a time, which costs $100+! I need maybe 20-30' total. Anyone have any thoughts about where to get shorter lengths or other ideas? I thought about wrapping pieces loosely with drop cloth or taping together trash bags or drum liners.

Video of the technique in question:


----------



## putty

Pez, He has a new video where he makes his own bags. I'll find it and post it.

Here it is, around the 11:30 mark


----------



## Pezking7p

> Pez, He has a new video where he makes his own bags. I ll find it and post it.
> 
> Here it is, around the 11:30 mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - putty


You are a life saver! I don't know how I missed that in his videos.


----------



## PPK

That's ingenious! I may just have to try that - I've got a roll of heavy poly and a torch…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Glad you're back Pez. It just wasn't the same without you. I was worried you lost your muchness.


----------



## BHolcombe

> Pez, He has a new video where he makes his own bags. I ll find it and post it.
> 
> Here it is, around the 11:30 mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - putty


That circular saw blade on an angle grinder….holy ********************!


----------



## TheFridge

Tried out the corradi awhile ago. Pleasantly surprised. Need to get them some more work.


----------



## bearkatwood

Just posted a video on how I made my Library Bench. It was a grant commission from the Oregon Cultural Trust for my local library. Made from Black Walnut with ebony plugs and maloof style joinery, it is upholstered with black vinyl slip seats. If any are interested in having your work in a public setting check to see if your states cultural trust has grants available. 































































Enjoy the show.




View on YouTube


----------



## summerfi

Fantastic video Brian, and a wonderful project. You have some serious artistic talents.


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## TraylorPark

Wow Brian! That bench was great before the carving and that just took it to a whole new level.


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## bobasaurus

That's quite the bench. I'll watch the video when I get home, thanks for posting it.


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## BHolcombe

Awesome Brian! And a great idea.


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## BigRedKnothead

Brian, at the end of the day…..you made it beautiful.


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## bearkatwood

Red!! That is the best compliment I have gotten all day. Thanks brother!


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## PPK

I had a couple hours in the shop last night, and this thing is getting real. (Morris Chair)

I had a breakthrough moment when I figured out how to efficiently and effectively sharpen the blades on my planes, and set them up right, so they…. WORK! I get a lot of enjoyment out of smoothing wood now…
This is a slat that'll go in the side.









Have mainly been working on all the M&T joinery… I'm running into a little color variation between what I'm pretty sure is "black walnut" and "American? Walnut"... Any suggestions?









And I procured a whole cowhide… I'm hoping to make cushions myself.


----------



## PPK

Btw, Brian,
That is fantastic work. I want to be like you when I get big.


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## Pezking7p

Brian, crazy how the carving crosses the joints and switches from long grain to cross grain. Very tricky stuff, mate!

PPK, Walnut can have some dramatic variation from tree to tree, though I have to say those boards look very different. I know walnut can also fade if left in the sun. Maybe splash some mineral spirits on each board and see how different they look with finish?


----------



## TraylorPark

Thread stalker here, just wanted to show some progress on a current project I've been working on. It's a new booze/stemware cabinet for our dinning room. I was able to get some cheap walnut from a local guy selling off his dad's stash about a year ago and there just happened to be enough for this project. My wife is really into contemporary style furniture so I got some new router bits and made a horizontal router table to do the doors.









The bottom half will have these with locks and the top half will have the same frames with glass to show the stemware. I'm doing drawers on one side of the bottom to hold liquor and candy, so the kids can't eat it nonstop. The other side will be an X style wine storage. I finished the drawer boxes and am pretty pleased with my half blinds, since I had never cut any before.









On to my question . The original plan is to have the cabinet be just a plain box, probably with dovetail joints at the top and bottom. However, the more I look at the doors I can't help but feel that the straight lines of a plain box won't match with the doors. My alternative would be to add some crown molding at the top and then some decorative feet on the bottom. Any thoughts? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!


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## ColonelTravis

Brian, absolutely beautiful bench, thanks for the video.
Cat looks like it's mad the bench is going to the library instead of staying with the cat.


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## BigRedKnothead

Zach, I agree. Usually you don't see doors with that kind of molding/ornamentation. on a simple case…..like my last bookcase. You could still make a dovetailed case, but you'll need some crown moldings or sumpin.

The wedding present for my cousin and his fiancé ensues. They want a walnut turntable stand…and they shall have one. Let the dovetails begin.


----------



## Iguana

PPK - not only what Pez sez, but there can be a large difference between air dried and kiln dried color.


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## PPK

Mark,
That may be the other part of my problem… some of it is indeed air dried, and the lighter stuff is kiln dried.

If I were to use a dye (an aniline black walnut or something fairly dark) do you think it would even out the colors?


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## DanKrager

PPK, if I were faced with mismatched color to start with, I would try to equalize the color before applying finish. A single coat of finish will not hide undercolor mismatch. You can treat the darker pieces with several coats of weak bleach to bring it back to the lighter color or darken the lighter pieces with an ammonia treatment. 
The commercial approach is to essentially "paint" the wood with a toner that establishes background color. Stain, sealer, and glaze coats follow. 
Good luck tinkering.
DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dovetail time.


----------



## bearkatwood

Oh, fun!


----------



## PPK

Been awfully quiet on here… c'mon guys, build something! ;-)

Bent arms of the chair:

Steam. (for just over an hour)









Test bend some scraps from the same stock to check for bend radius. Good!









Do the real deal









And the next piece… I'll leave them clamped in position for a couple/few days while they dry out from all that steam. The radius ended up just the way I wanted. Guessed lucky. 









Also, thanks to all for the tips on color matching. I picked up some Behlen dark brown dye, and it seems to work really well to blend the sap wood and heartwood colors.


----------



## woodcox

Sweet steam set up Pete.


----------



## Iguana

> Mark,
> That may be the other part of my problem… some of it is indeed air dried, and the lighter stuff is kiln dried.
> 
> If I were to use a dye (an aniline black walnut or something fairly dark) do you think it would even out the colors?


Pete,

I've never tried that, but i don't see why it would work. I'd start with a very weak solution using alcohol soluble aniline dye and build up the color on the lighter pieces until you get a good match. Test on scraps first!

Bleaching might also work to lighten the darker pieces. I'd be worried that even a mild solution would take too much color out.


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## BigRedKnothead

^I've used walnut colored Watco Danish oil on the lighter pieces to even walnut out a time or two.

Pete it has been a bit quiet. I've been getting in the shop a bit, although not always "furniture." I finished this jewelry box for my daughter. I probably shouldn't have posted it on social media…. I've got 5 orders so far. lol. Oh well, gives me some funny money.










Also been getting a lot of family time. My son found my box of sketches. I can't be the only furniture maker who once had an interest in art. Not bad for a middle schooler:










Day off tomorrow. Gonna work on a walnut turntable stand.


----------



## TheFridge

Why does the kid have claws red?


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## putty

> Why does the kid have claws red?
> 
> - TheFridge


He is Lobster Boy


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## RonAylor1760

> Dovetail time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


OH MY! Wherever did you find that candle? I have to have one!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Knuckleheads. bHog showed me some love on fb too:










Lawl.

Must still have some good karma left though. Score a set of 10 Auriou carving chisels barely used. 









Can't wait to work some more carvings into my work.


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## BigRedKnothead

The divider for method for laying out dovetails hasn't changed for centuries. Of course I have to mix up the pattern artistically so they look hand cut. Ain't no 'lectiric router can do that.


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## RobDubs

Good topic to add. I started getting into the furniture thing when I wanted a solid oak coffee table. Then I watched Peter Follansbee dimension a log with an ax to make a chair. From there on out….all other hobbies were put on the back burner in order for me to make stuff.


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## BigRedKnothead

Hybrid tempations…... every thought about using a pattern bit at this point?










I have. Pretty sure it'd work, but I'd have to do it on a practice piece first. I is chicken.


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## Hammerthumb

Red - If your just trying to flatten the bottom of the cuts, it might work. I think you would need some support on both sides of the work so the router does not tip.

I never tried that, and I would be chicken also. Let me know how it works!


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## BigRedKnothead

Ya Paul, I was thinking I would put an L shaped piece of 8/4 behind for support. Not gonna try though. I'd be livid if I jacked up the first 15" wide walnut board I landed….lol.

The carving tools just arrived. 









Auriou a more Ogre-sized than the Pfeil









Maybe I can add a little texture in my work now…..like my idol Bearkat


----------



## Hammerthumb

I have an old set of Addis that are more ogre sized too. They are a little long for my liking, but the steel is awesome.


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## bearkatwood

That is a nice carving set, I will have to add that to my wish list.
I just found a great site that has very cheap rasps that work really well.
internationalviolin.com
Red, I know you wanted a card scraper video, but I just did this one. I will work on the card scraper one and get it out next week.




View on YouTube


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## duckmilk

Very cool Brian. Thanks for that video.


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## summerfi

Nice video Brian. I hope you'll also do one on relief carving the decorations like on the back of the bench. It's great to see guys like yourself and others here who are constantly using their tools to make nice stuff.

I hope you'll do a video sometime on how you make videos. What equipment do you use, how do you edit your footage, etc.

Finally, let us know how those International Violin rasps work out. The prices are certainly good. Even the fine cut looks a little coarse to me, but it's hard to tell in the pictures.


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## bearkatwood

Both good ideas Bob, thanks. I will try to do them.


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## BigRedKnothead

Good Vid Brian.

Dovetailin' away….



















Feeling like Doucette and Wolfe with these nice wide boards.


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## JayT

Dovetails look good, Red. You going to leave them proud or plane them down?


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## bearkatwood

I saw that dresser they are working on right now and it is disgusting 
I can't get over those legs








Lookin' good Red!


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## PPK

Woah! What are those^^ for, Brian??

Very nice DT's, Red.

Making some progress - I dry fit one of the sides:










Dyeing the walnut will be next. Tested some scraps this weekend, and it worked really well…


----------



## bearkatwood

That is from David Wolfe's Instagram feed and is the bottom feet of the dresser that Douchette and Wolfe (Youtube) or dwfurnituremakers on instagram are making. Beautiful stuff.


----------



## Pezking7p

PPK: Bends looking good! You're getting me psyched for my chair bending.

Good for a laugh if you guys haven't read it already: http://lumberjocks.com/topics/206386


----------



## chrisstef

Late to the party but ditto to red … watco med walnut danish oil blends it well. Anyone got suggestions on blending cherry?

Wish i didnt chicken out on using the new veritas beading tool on this table. Also need to work on square shoulders. But i was happy with my first set of tapered legs.


----------



## Hammerthumb

The table came out nice Stef.

I have always used home made beading tools. You should have done some test pieces and then went for it (easy for me to say, right?).


----------



## ColonelTravis

Red and/or others who cut dovetails by hand: how much can you do in one sitting? Let's say it's a cabinet. Could you do all four sides without a break? Just curious. I'm making doors for my tool cabinet (dovetailed with plain plywood panel, real boring but don't care because it's a tool cabinet, although when I saw Brian's tool cabinet I realized how pathetic boring tool cabinets are.) I got one door done today and was going to do a second and thought - geez, my eyeballs are not quite right after that and decided to do the other door tomorrow night.

Maybe it's another way of saying I need glasses. I don't know.


----------



## bearkatwood

I just got my new glasses today and I have bifocals for the first time, so I identify with you there. As far as doing a bunch of dovetailing at once, it can get really tedious and you need to get up to keep the blood flowing every so often. I find good music playing keeps me focussed too. Lately I have been listening to woodworking podcasts, but be careful, just like anything else here it is a slippery slope and you can easily get overwhelmed. Happy dovetailing oh and thanks.. I think for the cabinet comment 

Here is a link to several woodworking podcasts.


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## ColonelTravis

Thanks Brian. Yeah man, your cabinet is a stunner.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I'm at the age where my sight starts to get blurry after a couple of hours. When that happens, I just use the power of "the force".

Sometimes I wish my arms were about a foot longer.


----------



## TheFridge

> The table came out nice Stef.
> 
> I have always used home made beading tools. You should have done some test pieces and then went for it (easy for me to say, right?).
> 
> - Hammerthumb


Yeah stef!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dig that figured cherry Stef. Also picked some up today…. so I'mmuh gonna have to keep Hog's recipe in my back pocket.

Diggin that chair too Pete. I vow to make my next Morris chair out of walnut.

Matthew Wolfe needs to get on this forum so we can teach him sumpin;-0

Colonel- I can saw DTs without wearing out, but chopping is another story. I chopped two joints like the one I pictured, and that was enough for one day. Also an issue about quality. I do a better job on DTs when I'm not fatigued/impatient. Sometimes the hours start ticking by ….and I wanna be DONE with this part. That's a good time to stop, or switch to something else.

On that note, I really do like butt chisels for DTs. not so much chisel swaying in the air. My fingers and forearm don't fatigue as easily.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Red, yes, it's the chopping/paring part that takes its toll. Sawing a line not nearly as much. Good distinction to bring up. Two joints in one day on a board like you had pictured above seems very reasonable. I've always wondered how people pace themselves. Thanks.

For a while, I've wanted to make a longish, narrowish mesquite live edge table for our foyer. Mesquite is plentiful in S. Texas, not as plentiful where I am i N. Texas but it can be found relatively cheap. So far I haven't found the right slab. Incredibly picky about the top, I don't want it to look stupid and some live edge furniture just isn't my cup of tea. So when Stef posts his table today I said to myself - screw the slab, I'm sick of waiting for the right one to show up, I want to do something like that! I showed my wife Stef's table and she said - eh, I really want a live edge and not that. Ugh. Blow to the gut. *For the record*, because I don't want Stef to get the wrong impression, I said - you don't think that table looks nice? She said it looked very nice. It just wasn't a live edge.

I have a number of projects lined up that she's fine with but the dang live edge table is officially grating on me. I need to find a place for a Stef-like table in the house.


----------



## TheFridge

Take it as an opportunity to do something different I say. Try to do something you haven't done with the legs/ support structure maybe? That's kinda how I do my stuff. I like trying new to me stuff.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Yeah at first I was going to put metal legs on there. Saw almost exactly what I wanted last summer at a store but I'd have to have the metal custom made and that can get pricey. The combo looked nice but there's not much of a challenge to it. I'm trying to come up with a way for wooden legs and apron and haven't found anything I really like. There's a guy by the name of Lou Quallenberg who makes a lot of mesquite tables with wood bases and pushes the envelope with it. It's not really my style, but he's very skilled/artistic and I've looked at his stuff a lot to see how I can think better about it.

Until I find a top, it's all moot.


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah. Some projects you just use to build equity with the wifey


----------



## bearkatwood

Is that sweet equity instead of sweat equity??


----------



## PPK

Fat Tuesday today and Ash Wednesday starts Lent tomorrow! This Lent, I'm going to give up buying new tools… This could be a loooong 44 days. Only exception will be if I absolutely need to buy something for one of my commissioned pieces to finish it, and there's really no excuse there - pretty sure I've got everything I need.


----------



## ARHogfan

Hello,

Long time lurker/ new member. I am a big fan of the work here and have slowly been working on my woodworking skills.

Getting ready to start building a set of cherry end tables for the living room and have a few questions. I have built a prototype from scrap and am ready to start on the project.

I am inclined to start with building the tops first but am curious if I should wait for the base to ensure the top stays flat and doesn't twist/ warp while the base is being built.

Thanks,
David


----------



## bearkatwood

Welcome David, glad you could join in the fun


----------



## ARHogfan

Thanks Brian. I love your bench. I have shown the pics to at least 3 friends in the past 2 days.


----------



## BulldogLouisiana

> That is from David Wolfe s Instagram feed and is the bottom feet of the dresser that Douchette and Wolfe.
> 
> - bearkatwood


A Freudian slip is when you say one thing, but mean your mother.


----------



## jmartel

David, I usually do the tops last. I'm not sure that it makes much difference, but they typically take up space so I save it for the end since it's pretty quick to do.


----------



## Pezking7p

David, I would do the tops last. As Jmart says, they take up space, and I have had them curl up on me in a bad way after glueup. I had to rip the panel apart, re-joint, and re-glue. Waste of a day.

Re: Dovetails. My dovetail days always end up being exhausting marathons. Usually 8-10 hrs for a few drawers. I agree 100% with BRK, stop when you start to get that feeling that you "need to just get this done". For me, the half blinds always kick my butt.


----------



## bearkatwood

Have you seen Cossmans' dovetail x10?
link

That would help very much with half blinds. I have my own version of this I made and it works well.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I have a thick old card scraper I kinda do that with Brian. I should reinforce it some.

On half blind, I plunge a hole with the drill press next to the baseline. Helps with the chopping.


----------



## TheFridge

> Have you seen Cossmans dovetail x10?
> link
> 
> That would help very much with half blinds. I have my own version of this I made and it works well.
> 
> - bearkatwood


Might have to rip this one off


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The turntable case is dry fit. In my mind I looked as cool as Matthew Wolfe tapping it together with a rubber mallet


----------



## JayT

There are lots of things in your mind we don't need to know about, Red. 

The case does look good, though. Some killer grain in that walnut.


----------



## Pezking7p

> I have a thick old card scraper I kinda do that with Brian. I should reinforce it some.
> 
> On half blind, I plunge a hole with the drill press next to the baseline. Helps with the chopping.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Drill press helps a lot. I don't have one and I have made a few too-deep drills doing this by hand. It galls me every time I look at that drawer front but I doubt anyone will ever notice it but me

In order to determine if you are as cool as Matthew Wolfe we are going to need a video of you tapping it together with a dead blow mallet, sped up about 4x.


----------



## bearkatwood

That case looks great Red, I am sure the Douchette and Wolfe boys would be proud to hear you are fantasizing about them again


----------



## PPK

Got the dye on:



















And assembled one side:




























^Stay calm, I didn't have the glue wiped off yet…. My through tenons aren't earth shaking, but they turned out ok for the first ones I've done. Oh, and that blow-out on the top of the mortise gets covered by the shoulder of the front stretcher.

The dye ended up pretty dark, but I think I like it. I tried putting some Danish oil on a scrap that I had dyed, and it really popped the color, so I'm looking forward to that step…


----------



## TraylorPark

Pete, 
For me, that contrast is going to be really cool. Can't wait to see what it looks like with the oil on it.

Update to my cabinet build: nada, nothing, zip. I had a catastrophic power failure in my shop two weeks ago. When we go a real warm spell the ground must have settled and opened up a crack in the direct buried cables cause they went dead. I had 120v on each pole going out of the main breaker in the house and only about 90 coming into the sub panel in the shop, bummer. I knew one line was already dead and had been operating on only 120v before, but then that cable let go too. I had made plans to replace the wiring this summer when the ground was dry, but this has speed up the timeline a bit. So for the past couple weeks I assembled supplies, 300' of conduit, 310' of 2-2-4-6 aluminum mobile home feeder cable, a new 70 amp breaker for the main panel, and a new shovel  Now I know you are going to think I'm crazy, but I've dug the whole trench by hand. My thought was with the ground as wet as it is I would need a giant trencher to be able to get the job done in the slop then I would have to repair all the ruts said giant trencher would create. So I decided I would get some exercise and secure my "Man Card" for a little longer, probably until I go to the Kidz Bop concert later this year. I hope to have electricity restored this weekend provided the weather holds off a little bit, but looks like subfreezing temps for the rest of the week so we'll see.


----------



## woodcox

Zach, if I recall correctly, the man card to trench length is prorated after ten feet or so. I think you are good but, you failed to disclose whether you'll be attending Kids Bop alone as an escort. Either way, bring documented proof of said trench length and depth to the ticket counter for exoneration purposes.

Oh, and bummer about the electrical issues. I hope you get back up running soon for some riotous shop time.


----------



## BHolcombe

Nice work fellows. Sorry I have not posted recently, for some reason my computer and this site were not getting along. Whatever issue has since passed, so I have returned….WITH SPAM!

I've completed the Tea house table and chair build, finishing the documentation of my process on my blog;

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2017/03/10/tea-house-table-and-chair-complete/

I hope you'll have a read, and I look forward to your comments.

Stupid question, I'm kicking myself now today. I glued up the chair early in the day, let the glue cure for a few hours then put it outside. Yesterday was fine enough, being in the 60's until very late in the evening. However it got much cold this morning. Not much I can do about it, but should I be concerned? What I've read about glues suggests that it is just fine, but I have that lingering thought that I should have given it a day or two in my client's garage.

Two joints rely partially upon glue, and the spindles to some degree. I suppose if they loosen up I can pin them with bamboo pins, but overall I thought maybe it was a dumb move on my part.


----------



## CL810

Stunning work Brian. Design is beautiful. How will your client use this?


----------



## BHolcombe

Thank you CL! He plans to use them in his tea House, for a nice break and to enjoy the garden from time to time.


----------



## bearkatwood

Your stuff is turning out beautifully Brian. Fun to follow along with.


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks Brian!


----------



## DanKrager

It it's Titebond waterproof glue, no worries. Don't make it a habit…

10-4 on the stunning part!

DanK


----------



## BHolcombe

Thanks Dan! Indeed it is Titebond III waterproof glue. LOL, exactly no plans to make a habit out of such a bonehead maneuver after a long build but glad to hear that it should be fine.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

+1 to the kudos B.

Moving along with the turntable stand. Had some drunken buddies helped me with the glueup. 1/32" off square….not bad lol.










First coat of finish. Still needs a base and a door.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nothing like having drunken buddies help Red. Looking real good!

Another beautiful piece Brian. Great thought went into the joinery. Well done.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yes, I refer to this joinery as "pimp sauce."










(from BHolcombe's blog)


----------



## BHolcombe

Hahaha….I'm feeling like Kurt Vile then.

The cabinet is looking sweeeeet.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I would personally like to thank this walnut tree for donating it's wonderfully figured crotch to my woodworking project.









hehe. I'd like to leave it just like that. I'll leave enough reveal for seasonal movement. Think I should batten the back?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Stef is a bad influence^


----------



## BHolcombe

I would batten it, but that's a given I presume.


----------



## mramseyISU

I took a couple pictures last night of one of my night stands in progress. So far nothing is glued up other than the wide panels for the sides and tops. Everything is being held together with hand cut Mortise and Tenon joinery and the drawers will be hand cut dovetails. I'm taking the inspiration from the Peart Aurora design. The plan is to have two drawers when I'm done. The bulk is cherry and the drawer fronts will be birdseye maple and instead of ebony plugs and splines I'm going to be using Wenge.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I dig it Prof. Keep us posted.

I'm all about that base, no treble.


----------



## bearkatwood

it just needs two turn tables and a microphone Red!! nice stuff.


----------



## JayT

> I m all about that base, no treble.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I don't know, Red, I'm partial to this version. But the stand looks good.





View on YouTube


----------



## jmartel

I prefer Postmodern Jukebox's version.


----------



## bearkatwood

I liked that a lot.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Heh, had no idea there were so so many spinoffs on that song. Wish somebody never would have bought my daughters that album on vinyl.

Met another sawyer/farmer in IA. Guy had a pile offcuts from squaring up logs. Gonna have to chip off the bark and dry 'em. Mostly walnut and ash. But hey, free is free.


----------



## TheFridge

If you are trying to make me jelly then you are succeeding.


----------



## PPK

I'm getting so close to being done with the chair. (not the upholstery) Here are some teasers:


----------



## jmartel

Looks good, PPK. I like the light pegs contrasting. Reminds me of the Euphonium I wanted to buy when I was still in highschool band/orchestra/etc.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I dig it Pete.

This dude has become a friend and a new lumber source for me. God gave him the gift of design.

https://www.ligneusstudios.com/


----------



## CL810

Man Red, that guy has it going on. The Woomeera Mensa table and the jewelry box blew me away. Lucky you.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Andy, interestingly…he is very power tool based. Don't believe he's ever cut a dovetail by hand. I've checked out my shop….next times he's coming to mine. Lives 20 min away. Just met he and his dad at church.

Didn't know about Handworks either. He does now;-)


----------



## PPK

Dude! "Custom boomerangs." I could be friends with this guy too. And hey, I'm totally happy with having never cut a dovetail by hand ;-)


----------



## bearkatwood

Nice stuff.


----------



## PPK

Speaking of hand tools…

There's a reason they call these things a "scratch stock"



















There's a lot of scratching involved to get these beads cut in. It's turning out pretty well though…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Scratch stocks are fun.

Can you smell the citrus?


----------



## Hammerthumb

Smells good Red. Any full frontal photos?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Full frontals? You dirty ol man….;-P

Teaser of the door. Toying with the shopmade pull.


----------



## DanKrager

I like that pull, BRK. Simple and elegant, not distracting from the amazing figure.

DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks Dan. I keep sizing down the ebony…. but I don't want it to be too week. Looks a little like the pull on the desk I posted yesterday;-P


----------



## Hammerthumb

Looks good Red. I like the wild grain. How about the legs?


----------



## TheFridge

Paul you know a dude that big has some long legs. I think asking to see them may be a little forward without some wining and dining first


----------



## Hammerthumb

That's ok Fridge. Me and the big guy are pretty close.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Yup. Here's a couple done done pics. This piece will be tough to give away.


























Work on the blog when I get a chance.


----------



## CL810

You killed it Red, really nice. Something to be said for making two of anything you build.


----------



## JayT

Looks great, Red. I like how you handled the grain on the door.


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, I'd tell them that it disappeared, but if they wanted to, they could take a look at your sweet new piece of furniture.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, that is scary good. The door is beautiful.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks boys. That walnut/arm-r-seal dances in the sunlight….but we haven't had any here for a week

Need to make a shipping crate now. As I said it goes to my cousin and his bride for their wedding present.

"The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away." - Picasso.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Red, awesome job. Great board for the front door. I suggest making a shipping crate out of the finest walnut to keep things consistent. 


Dovetail question: I'm making a Jim Tolpin (By Hand & Eye) stand-up desk from a PWW feature last year. The sides of the desk box are dovetailed and, as you can see from the photo, the sides are slanted.










I made a template for the box side because I'm gonna make at least two of these desks. In the PWW feature, Tolpin said that when you dovetail the sides, do not cut the slope until after you do the dovetails. But it seems odd to make both sides full of dovetails and then you cut off about 1/3rd from one side afterward. Is it really more difficult to layout dovetails with the slope cut vs. a full rectangle of a board?

What the finished result should (key word for me) look like.


----------



## bearkatwood

That sounds like a waste of time to dovetail trash, but Jim is a great woodworker and teacher so I am stumped on that one. I would cut the angles first personally and then I would miter the top dovetail to give a nice look when you opened the lid.
Red, fantastic job on that, I love the grain in the door. Your execution is awesome as always. What are you up to next?


----------



## johnstoneb

awesome Red. That could be a gallery showpiece.


----------



## PPK

I'll echo Bruce! Awesome piece. I almost want to start makin' handcut dovetails!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Came out really good Red. I have to agree that you utilized the grain pattern on the door for the best visual effect. Another very nice looking piece!


----------



## DanKrager

"Daddy sang bass…" joining the chorus on the bottom, BRK. Well done.

DanK


----------



## JADobson

Travis, I made a shaker lap desk from FWW a while ago that had that same design and I cut the angles first and then did the dovetails. I didn't notice any difference at all in laying them out.


----------



## jmartel

> In the PWW feature, Tolpin said that when you dovetail the sides, do not cut the slope until after you do the dovetails. But it seems odd to make both sides full of dovetails and then you cut off about 1/3rd from one side afterward. Is it really more difficult to layout dovetails with the slope cut vs. a full rectangle of a board?
> - ColonelTravis


In the Doucette & Wolfe videos, specifically the slant front desk ones, they only dovetail the visible portion. You would only cut the thinner side to width first and leave the sloped portion square and overhanging.






Still square until the ~5:45 mark, and then they cut it after everything else is assembled.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Thanks for the input. With those D&W videos I see what Tolpin was talking about. If you use that method, no need to make the dovetails then lop them off, just leave the wood blank. I might try some practice ones like that and then also like James did and see what happens.


----------



## ColonelTravis

I gotta disagree, gargey (although not about the pants). I love that book. For me it's so much easier to think about design in proportions vs. subtracting 9 5/8ths from 17 13/16ths.


----------



## JADobson

I too enjoyed the book. I try to use proportions more but still find myself reaching for a ruler.


----------



## PPK

I'm reading By Hand and Eye right now, and am thoroughly enjoying it. It really clicks. I'm understanding the common themes behind all the proportions and elements of classical architecture. The way I was explaining it to my wife the other night is that there seem to be several steps to becoming a good artisan OR craftsman:

1-Learn about wood, its characteristics & workabilty. (Do this by building lots of shelves and boxes and "stuff")
2-Learn about good joinery techniques, layout, marking & measuring. (Build more stuff)
3-Learn about methods & tools (Read & participate in blogs like this, build more stuff)
4-Learn how to DESIGN and make visually appealing in addition to and in complement of being of good utility. (Read good books, study architecture & furniture, build more stuff)

I don't know that there's a particular order to these steps, but for me, By Hand and Eye really helps to move a person toward being able to achieve #4, my last point.

That's just my take on it, however. I know there's a ton of good books out there. And even better than books would be to have someone to learn from…


----------



## bearkatwood

By hand and eye is a great eye opener (pardon the pun) and helps you go back and look at the classic orders, nature and what makes good design. You don't have to follow it, even Chris Schwarz says that you should "disobey" but it is very helpful to learn all you can about design. The modern movement saw designers trying new things with crazy materials that weren't bound to the same building specs as wood and I think there might have been some interesting things made, but unfortunately they also abandoned basic design principals in the process to be original.
They say that those that don't know their history are bound to repeat it, well with design, I don't think that is the case. Learning the history of architecture and design can be a valuable tool to have in your cabinet. Now that pun was intentional


----------



## woodcox

What just happen here? Curious about the process not the cause. Moderator, him or an OP action? PM'd explanation is ok if need be.

That was an amazing thing to do for a wedding present, Red. Beautifully done.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Huh - yeah where did gargey's comment go? I didn't think he said anything wrong, wasn't offended. Just a difference of opinion.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks again guys. Very happy with how it turned out.



> I gotta disagree, gargey (although not about the pants). I love that book. For me it s so much easier to think about design in proportions vs. subtracting 9 5/8ths from 17 13/16ths.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Don't see the gargey post either, but By Hand and Eye was an epiphany for me. I realized these patterns existed, and they looked better to my eye….but I would try to figure them out with calculations. Proportions is where it's at.

That turntable stand I shared was designed that way. It's all 2/3 proportions…..of a vinyl record;-)


----------



## bearkatwood

vinyl rocks and you are right red, ditch the tape measure and use proportions, it makes a big difference.


----------



## gargey

Apparently someone deleted my post. Pretty ridiculous.

I know this site cultivates an (in my opinion) over-the-top "positive comments only" vibe, but my post was about something that is for sale for broad public consumption, and was not profane or unseemly. Is LJ marketing that book, or something? Only allowing positive reviews is akin to marketing.

Some things the puritanical prude moderators should consider:
1) Not everyone is like you, especially younger people and people that don't live in the middle of nowhere. You're limiting your audience.
2) The restriction of criticism allows bad things to fester.


----------



## bearkatwood

If you want to disagree with something try constructive criticism, you catch more flies with honey.


----------



## JamieAB

> Apparently someone deleted my post. Pretty ridiculous.
> 
> I know this site cultivates an (in my opinion) over-the-top "positive comments only" vibe, but my post was about something that is for sale for broad public consumption, and was not profane or unseemly. Is LJ marketing that book, or something? Only allowing positive reviews is akin to marketing.
> 
> Some things the puritanical prude moderators should consider:
> 1) Not everyone is like you, especially younger people and people that don t live in the middle of nowhere. You re limiting your audience.
> 2) The restriction of criticism allows bad things to fester.
> 
> - gargey


I certainly hope it is not the case. I would stop using a site if it only allows certain narratives to be allowed for public viewing. I wonder if it's the "Really popular" Threads that this is only done in.


----------



## bearkatwood

I completely agree that all voices should be heard and if there is a dissenting view point to a particular topic or idea, then anyone should have the right to voice that opinion. I just think that personally I would never try to point out a problem or something I didn't like without either showing my justification for my opinion or offering a solution or better way. Like I said, flies with honey, not vinegar.  And it is a positive atmosphere here where we can collectively put out our ideas and work and I have offered constructive criticism before, but you don't get much learning from "I don't like that"


----------



## TheFridge

Amen


----------



## gargey

That is the approach I use if and when I engage any other LJ (which is rarely since so many people here seem to be hypersensitive to it).



> If you want to disagree with something try constructive criticism, you catch more flies with honey.
> 
> - bearkatwood


----------



## gargey

> Amen
> 
> - TheFridge


This from the guy that blew a gasket when I attempted to discuss design - without referencing anyone's work specifically - in the design forum…

I realize this is a big derail, I'll abandon this line of thought in this thread now.


----------



## bearkatwood

I welcome any criticism you might have. I really do find it helpful, but be specific. Thanks. 
I just finished my cafe chair video and I think it turned out well, but I could use some other opinions.


----------



## TheFridge

> Amen
> 
> - TheFridge
> 
> This from the guy that blew a gasket when I attempted to discuss design - without referencing anyone s work specifically - in the design forum…
> 
> I realize this is a big derail, I ll abandon this line of thought in this thread now.
> 
> - gargey


You have me mistaken. Sounds good.


----------



## ColonelTravis

BRIAN THAT CHAIR IN GENERAL SUCKS!

I kid. Lovely chair.

I'm sure you've answered this before but I've not seen it, what's your finish for that? Looked like a Maloof kinda thing.


----------



## bearkatwood

SUCKS!! What the….. ?? I said be specific!! You suck!!

oh, wait. You were joking. Sorry, you don't suck anymore 
Thanks for watching. I like wipe on poly's for this one I started out with generals and then switched to minwax. The minwax is thinner and does a good job as a top coat. The Generals finish can get really gummy by the fourth coat.


----------



## PPK

Opinions, please:

I've got to make 3 glass shelves for my bookcase/display project. They'll be about 15" deep x 33" wide. They client has 6 children, several of which are boys, so I'm a bit concerned about the glass. Should I make a wood frame, and rabbet the glass into it, so that it sits flush w/ the wood frame? My thinking is that this'll give the glass a chance at a long life. Any other options?


----------



## gargey

Glass is cheap and easy to replace. Just give them what they want.

Also, I don't see why it would be at risk in the first place, to be honest. Does this family live like a bunch of animals?


----------



## PPK

No, but I know that when I was a young boy, I was quite fond of throwing balls, swinging swords & sticks, etc in the living room, whether it was against the rules or not


----------



## bondogaposis

My latest work, the Onken/Morris chair. I was motivated by BRK's making of this chair last winter. It has taken me a long time to get around to it. I'm full in it now, with the basic frame glued and clamped. The next step will be the arms.


----------



## pintodeluxe

PPK…
Tempered glass. It can still break, but is less likely to hurt someone. 
Glass shelves are usually 1/4" thick, so they are somewhat more solid than your typical picture frame glass or mirror.

The worst story I heard involving glass furniture injuries was a couple of lads arm wrestling on a glass coffee table. Of course the table shattered and tore one kids arm up pretty bad.

I just finished a project with glass shelves, but they are behind wooden doors so I didn't have that concern.
Good luck with it.


----------



## DanKrager

+1 on the tempered glass. Some tempered glass is almost beyond breaking. If you're concerned, it's worth the little bit more it might cost. I was surprised at how reasonable it was the last time I bought.

DanK


----------



## ColonelTravis

Great stuff, Bondo - good luck!


----------



## TraylorPark

So a couple of weeks ago I got the electricity all buttoned up in the shop. Below is photo evidence for man card retention.










300 feet by hand. This was my thought before, during, and after the fun times.










Anyway, I'm back at the cabinet. Got the dovetailed cabinet box done, finished up a couple of door frames, and made some feet. If this pace continues I should be done sometime by 2018


----------



## johnstoneb

Bondo
Chair is looking good.


----------



## oldsailor59

new here. thanks for the list of links.


----------



## PPK

I agree, very nice chair, Bondo! Keep posting the progress shots!

Traylor, I feel ya. I helped my brothers dig a trench 2' deep about the same length for a 4" water drain line… But that was when I was younger and loved digging….

Do you use a router bit to make the top profile of those feet for your cabinet??


----------



## TraylorPark

> Do you use a router bit to make the top profile of those feet for your cabinet??


Yep, I used a 1/2" round nose then followed it up with a 3/4" straight bit.


----------



## bondogaposis

I made a little progress on the chair yesterday. The side panels are done and dry fit. I wanted to work on the arms but we had a power failure here that lasted 2 hours in the middle of the day, when I would been working on them. I filled pot holes in my driveway instead, not exactly precision work.


----------



## DanKrager

What irony….bondogaposis filling potholes!

That is an awesome looking start to a chair, bondo. Do I see that the tenons in the front legs, and perhaps the back legs, how would one describe it, overlap? Intersect? Interlock?

DanK


----------



## bondogaposis

Yes, the corners tenons have to be 45°ed to fit.


----------



## bearkatwood

Seems like I have seen that chair recently. Great work sir. I think that grain is going to explode when you get finish on it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Heh. August hit me up for the book that has that Morris chair plans in it. It's a good'n.

Project post up. Movin on.


----------



## PPK

Great chair, Bondo, Great Stand, Red…. I sure hope that that nice stand doesn't get damaged when you ship it. That'd be a real tragedy.

I got the face frames built, and the carcass sheet material cut out for my book case…



























I'm wistfully thinking about an inline hole drilling machine right now… there are a LOT of adjustable shelf holes on this project….


----------



## TheFridge

Churry!


----------



## bondogaposis

Shooting sports, Fridge, cool.


----------



## Sunstealer73

I've been hibernating since all the Christmas projects. I've been working the last few weeks on a Stickley bookcase design though for my god-daughter. Her parents both work for a college, so I'm sure she'll have plenty of books growing up. I picked up a trailer load of QSWO back in the fall, this is the first project out of it. Every piece has beautiful rays in it. It was expensive at $6/ft, but worth it compared to some I've gotten in the past.

The original design had tusk tenons, I changed it to through tenons and glued it all for more strength. It also had more curves for the feet, but I suck at curves. I tried them at first, but wasn't happy and ended up going more angular. I chamfered the top to tie it together more.

Here's the final dry fit. It's glued and stained at this point, waiting a few days to put the topcoat on. I really like the way it turned out.










Between this and dovetails, I definitely need to work on my chiseling techniques. I have a hard time not going past my baseline. The mortises for the through tenons ended up a little big big on a couple of sides. I cut small wedges to fill them, but would rather have had a tighter fit to begin with.


----------



## finns

Hey sunstealer this looks great. The overall design is eye catching and I like your change to the feet. Well done and look forward to seeing its completion. What ideas do you have for a finish?


----------



## Sunstealer73

For QSWO, I normally do Danish Oil in Dark Walnut, then Sealcoat, then a varnish of some sort. Here's how it looks:










It's easier than the regular Arts & Crafts finish that people use and has a similar look. I wipe on the oil, let it dry for three days, then a couple of coat of Sealcoat, then several coats of whatever varnish. I usually use either Watco Wipe-On Poly, Minwax Quick Drying Poly, or Sherwin Williams Alkyd Varnish. I use the SW varnish when I use waxed shellac vs Sealcoat. No one around here carries Sealcoat anymore for some reason. I actually like the look of Bullseye better, but am afraid to put poly over it.


----------



## jmartel

That's a good looking finish, Sunstealer.

For the chisels going past baseline, do you clamp a board with a known 90 deg angle up to the edge of the baseline to use as a reference? Might be worth doing to keep you from going past.


----------



## Mosquito

^ I second the board on the baseline technique. I still do it from time to time as well, if I haven't cut dovetails in a while especially. If nothing else, at least they're all off in a straight line that way lol

For mortise and tenon do you cut the mortise first or tenon first? I usually do mortise first, then mark the tenon off of that. Easier to sneak up on the right fit with the tenon than the mortise for me.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Sun- Dark Walnut danish oil followed by poly is my preferred finish for QSWO too. That's how the Chair in the OP is finished. I'll even wet sand the danish oil with fine grit if I want the rays to really pop.

I still don't use any guide or board for chopping DTs. As long as I'm not hurrying, and I continue to chop the waste portion in half each time….til there's only a tiny bit left, I do fine. I have some interesting chiseling techniques as well.

Nice pieces brewing here.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Quick project out of my shop.


----------



## DanKrager

PPK, for series drilling holes for cabinet shelves, I make a long fence for the drill press-twice as long as the longest row of holes. Upon the face of that fence I lay out the hole spacing and make vertical lines all the way across the face of the fence. Mine is at 64mm. Then I position the fence so a mark near the center lines up with the drill bit CL at the appropriate distance from the edge. Then, the opposing faces of the interior slabs where the holes go receive one mark at the location of the first set of holes squared all the way across both panels, which of course are carefully evened up at the reference end. Then I take each panel in turn to the press and line up the panel mark with the fence mark at the bit. Drill the stopped hole (don't forget that stop!!!). Rinse and repeat until the last hole in that line is done. Turn the panel end for end and repeat. 
This guarantees that all the holes in both panels will align perfectly. Well at least as perfectly as you lined everything up. Other methods using a locator pin in the previous hole accumulate errors to the extent that the holes are guaranteed NOT to line up.

Good luck!
DanK


----------



## Sunstealer73

Thanks guys. Part of my chiseling problem is that I'm just now getting to where I can get them decently sharp. I went through scary sharp, then diamond stones, and finally Shaptons Pros. I really like the Shaptons and my technique is getting better too. Without being really sharp though, it is really hard to get that last final sliver.

Red, I may have read an early post of yours where I got the finishing technique. Poly seems to be frowned on by many, but I like it. I don't find it plasticky like some say. I do want to get a sprayer soon though. I finally upgraded to Festool sander and dust extractor. Finishing is my most hated part of a project. The Festool setup made the sanding much better. I think an HVLP sprayer will take care of the rest.


----------



## bondogaposis

I finally got to finishing the arms on the chair. They are just dry fit for now as I think I will do the finishing on it before the final assembly. The arms were not too difficult to build, but locating the mortises on the under side of them took some serious head scratching. Next will be the web frames for the seat and back. They have a ton of M&T joints but otherwise should be straight forward.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, I may have read an early post of yours where I got the finishing technique. Poly seems to be frowned on by many, but I like it. I don t find it plasticky like some say. I do want to get a sprayer soon though. I finally upgraded to Festool sander and dust extractor. Finishing is my most hated part of a project. The Festool setup made the sanding much better. I think an HVLP sprayer will take care of the rest.
> 
> - Sunstealer73


I hear ya. I don't care for gloss, always satin. Sometimes I want that finish to build up like a plastic film….like on a dining table. So, I'll lay out minwax satin poly really thick for a few coats, then even run an ROS over it with a fine grit. Then work to finer spray coats.

If I want to still "feel" the grain, I like the wiping poly's like Arm-r-seal.

-

I have a Rockler plastic jig with the plunge bit for my shelf pins. Works for everything I do, but I use them sparingly. I can tell you it's a helluva lot more accurate than using a pegboard cutoff;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, I may have read an early post of yours where I got the finishing technique. Poly seems to be frowned on by many, but I like it. I don t find it plasticky like some say. I do want to get a sprayer soon though. I finally upgraded to Festool sander and dust extractor. Finishing is my most hated part of a project. The Festool setup made the sanding much better. I think an HVLP sprayer will take care of the rest.
> 
> - Sunstealer73


----------



## BigRedKnothead

For those who enjoy my personal blogs. It's a heavy one. 
http://www.westfallwoodcraft.com/2017/04/my-fatherless-days.html


----------



## BigRedKnothead

When the power tool fails (or burns), the hand tool prevails. I should've gotten carving tools years ago. 









-


----------



## PPK

Thanks DanK…
I don't have a drill press though :-(
Anybody got a nice floor standing model they want to part with?? Lol.
Anyway, tomorrow is Easter, so I can resume buying tools! I have the jig red mentioned, and I've also used a piece of hardboard that has holes in it. (not pegboard.)

Awesome chair, Bondo!


----------



## PPK

... and thanks for sharing your blog, BRK!


----------



## PPK

Say "yes" to plywood… Sorry, couldn't resist the poking at the Big Red One…

Can you imagine making cabinets without plywood? I was thinking to myself last night about how I'm not all that old, but I have never seen any kitchen cabinets that are built with solid wood throughout. The carcass is always made of MDF, ply, particle board or some engineered wood product. Does anybody know how they used to be made before the plywood era? Or did people not really do the whole cabinet thing in their kitchens? My grandpa made his own set of cabinets, and he used a "lumber" core plywood. It's got stips of boards in the middle, sandwiched between two larger plys of pretty thick veneer, and then a nice, thick oak veneer on each side. At LEAST 1/32" thick, probably closer to 1/16". A far cry from today's plywood with a finish veneer measured in the thousandths.

Anyway, I'm making some progress on my book case.










I realized I forgot to put in the faux "capstone"... at least GLANCE once in awhile at that nice plan, Pete… So I'm cutting one in now. Not a big deal.










And shelves galore gluing up…


----------



## bearkatwood

Yeah, I like carving more than turning.


----------



## gargey

> LEAST 1/32" thick, probably closer to 1/16". A far cry from today s plywood with a finish veneer measured in the thousandths.
> - PPK


I heard a rumor that 1/32" is about 31 thousandths of an inch.


----------



## PPK

touche!


----------



## DrDirt

So the School Competition at Fort Hays State - is coming up quick. Helping my Senior (who is developing a bit of senioritis) get his table completed.
Just need finish - and to tweak the tennons on top of the legs, as the aluminum rods applied a little torque, so one leg doesn't want to cooperate and drop in without excessive 'coersion'
Few swipes with a shoulder plane on leg #2's tennon, and then Waterlox tonight. and hit it with lacquer This weekend.
Table built to match the chairs he already made. to be a computer workstation with a USB and power hub in the center hole

Wife definitely wants her parking space back… but the shop was too crowded.


----------



## bearkatwood

Great looking table, I like the stretchers. They remind me of a look I was going for with my pirouette table that I did.









I love those chairs too, great stuff.


----------



## DrDirt

That is awesome - Brian. Took next step, Taught him that measuring 3/4 for the thickness of the plywood base was not a good plan… since 3/4 ply isn't 3/4  There was a gap between the top plate that locked the legs in place and the table top.

SO we had to deepen the mortises in the bottom of the table. It now has been oiled with Waterlox. Saturday we will de-nib and shoot it with Lacquer. and tweak the legs to take any 'rock' out of it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Hey! I still use plywood….for shipping crates! ;-P Ya, hard to get around it for big cabinets and built-ins.

A first for me. Never shipped a piece. Getting a quote from Fastenal. I guess the offer freight service from one store to another. We'll see. 









A lot of repurposed packing later…


----------



## Iguana

Lotta work to build that crate!


----------



## bigblockyeti

Can't you just throw it on a train?


----------



## bearkatwood

That will get it there nicely Red.


----------



## jmartel

Red, let us know about how much it will be. My parents have expressed interest in having me build something for them, but the cost to ship that I've seen just poking around online was like $500+ for any decent sized piece of furniture.


----------



## bondogaposis

The cheapest way to ship furniture that I have found is by bus.


----------



## jmartel

I shipped a motorcycle frame via Greyhound, but I had to call it a "metal sculpture" as they don't ship auto parts.


----------



## Hammerthumb

J artel? ^


----------



## ColonelTravis

Nice crate, Red. 
Good luck!


----------



## PPK

Really cool table, Dr Dirt. I may have missed it, bit what kind of wood?

Are you watching this, PintoDeluxe? Look familiar? Thanks for the super helpful tutorials!




























I've decided I really kinda like upholstery…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Can t you just throw it on a train?
> 
> - bigblockyeti


Heh, unless I can fill a boxcar, the railroad's not interested in my business. Employee or not.

I've been saving packing for awhile for that crate. I even saved some big styrofoam corners from a dryer. Worked well.

The quote is back from Fastenal 3PL (third party logictics). They ship from store to store reasonably….this was news to me too. The quote for my 40×40x20" 200lb crate from IA to Seattle was $175. I thought that was pretty reasonable, so I'm gonna roll with it.


----------



## pintodeluxe

> Are you watching this, PintoDeluxe? Look familiar? Thanks for the super helpful tutorials!
> 
> I ve decided I really kinda like upholstery…
> 
> - PPK


I love it. Thanks.
Yes, I'm always watching and learning. A perpetual student of the craft. 
Upholstery can be addictive.


----------



## jmartel

That's not bad at all, Red. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## DrDirt

> Really cool table, Dr Dirt. I may have missed it, bit what kind of wood?
> 
> Are you watching this, PintoDeluxe? Look familiar? Thanks for the super helpful tutorials!
> 
> I ve decided I really kinda like upholstery…
> 
> - PPK


The legs are laminated mahoghany, the top is maple with walnut accents. the Waterlox darkens the maple quite a bit. the finish itslef is the color of strong tea/weak coffee.

Jmartel:
Surprised to hear Greyhound doesn't do auto parts. I remember as a kid we had broken down, and the bus brought the parts (rear axle and bearings)~2 days later to the shop. that was the early 70's though.


----------



## harelfiliba

[removed]


----------



## TheFridge

I think I wish ted would quit.


----------



## TraylorPark

Final dry fit before gluing. Pretty happy with most of the joints, but then again most of them will also be covered by moldings and doors.


----------



## bearkatwood

Is the bottom section getting doors? Looks nice.


----------



## TraylorPark

> Is the bottom section getting doors? Looks nice.
> 
> - bearkatwood


Bottom section is getting paneled doors and the top section is getting glass front doors.


----------



## bearkatwood

Well that should look very nice, can't wait to see that walnut with finish.


----------



## PPK

I'm getting ready to apply the rest of the finish to my chair (Walnut & Hickory). I've got Danish oil on now, and plan to do 2-3 coats of Arm r Seal. Then what should I do? I've never done a "hand rubbed finish"... does this just involve rubbing some paste wax on? I've got some Old Masters paste wax. Comments on how you guys enjoy doing the finishing touches welcome


----------



## TraylorPark

Pete, 
I'm no expert, but I finish all my projects with some paste wax. The way I apply is put a ball of wax inside a painting rag that you get in the big box at the store. Squeeze it just enough to get some of the wax out and rub that all over. I put just a fine film on all the wood then let it dry, drying time is temp and humidity dependent. After that I buff with the finest steel wool you can find making sure to go with the direction of the grain (don't know if that matters, but some times you can see the marks if you go against it). I usually do 2 coats of wax. Hopefully others will input as well, but that's how I do it until I'm educated differently.


----------



## bearkatwood

I use a 0000 steel wool pad and rub on my bees wax/ mineral oil mix then buff it off.


----------



## TraylorPark

Forgot to mention, any thick wax or clumps left at joints will get real hard and have a real dull look to them. Areas on a chair I would be ready for are where slats join to rails and the tennon caps. Just make sure you pay extra attention to those spots and clean any excess before it drys hard and you should be good.


----------



## bearkatwood

I agree.


----------



## PPK

Thanks Brian and Zach


----------



## theoldfart

Hidden sliding dovetails are a pain, especially by hand!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice!


----------



## ColonelTravis

complex legs you got there - looks great!


----------



## Hammerthumb

When a Colonel says you have nice legs, it must be true. The Colonel know!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Just watch out if he says you have nice breasts.


----------



## theoldfart

Now I'm afraid, I'm gonna hide in the shop. Four more stopped sliding dovetails to go.


----------



## theoldfart

The face frame is almost done, two more it's then onto drawer guides.


----------



## DanKrager

Me likey sliding dovetails, hand cut or not. You gonna shave those legs?

DanK


----------



## ColonelTravis

FACE FRAME IS HOT!


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, when all the joinery is done I,lol do a final scrape and sand.


----------



## theoldfart

Face frame is done









view from the inside showing all the warts!









Almost cut the wrong side on the last dt I did so time to go out and recreate


----------



## CL810

Looks good Kevin, really good. Gotta be exciting.


----------



## theoldfart

Mostly Andy, what's left will not be hard EXCEPT the fan carving on the middle drawer! I've been practicing so when I've done three or four I should be ready for the big time.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I use a 0000 steel wool pad and rub on my bees wax/ mineral oil mix then buff it off.
> 
> - bearkatwood


Interesting. I always finish with wet sanding Howards Feed-n-wax. It's just bees wax and citrus.

Just returned from a business trip to Colorado. Had to stop by one of my old lumber sources, Sears-Trostel in Ft Collins. They've definitely caught on to the slab craze.


----------



## bearkatwood

I use howards as well some times, but iI made a large batch of my own mix with some beeswax I bought. I started using mineral oil to soften the wax as I didn't want to use turpentine. Coincidentally Red this same mix is going to the handworks and replaces the mix you got with the wax blocks for tools. The wax mix I use for finishing is quite a bit softer, like pudding.


----------



## Brit

Great work Kev. That's going to be an heirloom piece for sure.


----------



## bearkatwood

> The wax mix I use for finishing is quite a bit softer, like pudding.
> 
> - bearkatwood


I should have said "It's like buttah"


----------



## TraylorPark

> They ve definitely caught on to the slab craze.


Already planned slabs? Now they really are eliminating any skill at all. Slap some hairpin legs you buy online on there and you got desk.
I'll step off my soapbox now.


----------



## bigblockyeti

I was at Keim lumber a little over a month ago and they have some slabs that are stooopid expensive, on the order of several in the $3500 - $5500 range and a few even higher. They're all planed flat and sanded to at least 220 grit. Same deal with the complete removal of required skill.


----------



## theoldfart

Started fitting drawer slips.


















Two are done, several more to go.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^It's taken so long Kev….I can't remember what your making;-P



> Already planned slabs? Now they really are eliminating any skill at all. Slap some hairpin legs you buy online on there and you got desk.
> I ll step off my soapbox now.
> 
> - TraylorPark


I'm not sure I totally follow. Slab furniture kinda just is what it is. It doesn't take a lot of skill to find someone with a wide planer or flatten it with a router.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, took me a while to remember what came next! It's a Connecticut Valley dressing table, aka a low boy.


----------



## TheFridge

I need to break the 45 out and play with it since I learned you use a rabbeting plane to take out the waste.

I need to post my 45 iron sharpener one day. Think dremel with long chainsaw sharpening stone coming out an angled block. Works surprisingly well.


----------



## TraylorPark

> I m not sure I totally follow. Slab furniture kinda just is what it is. It doesn t take a lot of skill to find someone with a wide planer or flatten it with a router.


Slab furniture isn't my cup of tea especially with some metal legs. I really shouldn't get as worked up about it as I do, because who am I to judge someone else's taste. I guess it's kind of hard to express why I feel that way. Part of me thinks it's jealousy, even though I'm not really trying to sell my stuff, that they can charge so much for pieces that almost anyone can make with just a couple of tools. Normally I'm happy people have found a niche and make products that they have found a market for, but I must have just been in sour mood then. I'll blame it on the week straight of rain we had.


----------



## ColonelTravis

My wife has wanted a slab table for some time and a couple weeks ago, after more than a year of looking, I finally found a mesquite top that I think will work. My issue with them is what you put underneath the slab. I've seen more dumb looking slab tables than anything else. Metal legs make the whole thing easy but unless you get custom iron (which can be terrific but expensive), I'm not a fan of them because the metal legs (especially hairpin) are so common and, for me, I want to apply some woodworking skill. After I knock out a few more projects I'll start thinking about design, because I want an all-wood base.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I hear ya Zach. Funny thing is, I went to a little "Arts in the Park" here yesterday. The only woodworking there was turnings….and slab tables with metal legs. I can't blame the the woodworkers there. They feel like they can't invest a lot of labor….because people won't pay for it. At least not as shows like that.

I'm not crazy about hairpin legs, but I don't mind some steel leg designs. I've heard good things about this source: https://steeltablelegs.com/

Other news, the turntable stand arrived in Seattle safe and sound. Actually, Fastenal got it there in 5 days. I was impressed.


----------



## PPK

I had 4 or so "live edge" slabs in my stash of rough lumber that I recently cut up and planed down for… dimensional lumber… gasp. They are now "Dead edge" ;-)

No offense, All things seem to come and go in fashion. I suppose there were those who though Queen Ann stuff was lavishly hideous in its time… T'wouldn't be fun if styles stayed the same all the time. Funny how some styles never die though… A & C never seems to go away as one example.


----------



## PPK

Oh, and this sure put a big ol foolish grin on my face. The stupid cool things you can learn by watching youtubes… 
Don't like stuffing foam into upholstery?

Try this…
Dry cleaner bag + shop vac. + daughter



























= quick, easy & frustration-free stuffed cushion…


----------



## duckmilk

Catching up after a-- month?



> Hidden sliding dovetails are a pain, especially by hand!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart


How does your bench stay so pristine Kev? I figured by now it would have some dings and patina to it ;-) Beautiful work on the joinery.



> The quote is back from Fastenal 3PL (third party logictics). They ship from store to store reasonably….this was news to me too. The quote for my 40×40x20" 200lb crate from IA to Seattle was $175. I thought that was pretty reasonable, so I m gonna roll with it.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Is there a website for them or did you just go to one of their stores?



> My wife has wanted a slab table for some time and a couple weeks ago, after more than a year of looking, I finally found a mesquite top that I think will work. My issue with them is what you put underneath the slab. I ve seen more dumb looking slab tables than anything else. Metal legs make the whole thing easy but unless you get custom iron (which can be terrific but expensive), I m not a fan of them because the metal legs (especially hairpin) are so common and, for me, I want to apply some woodworking skill. After I knock out a few more projects I ll start thinking about design, because I want an all-wood base.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Why don't you just steal Brian's pirouette table leg design  Beautiful design Brian.


----------



## Just_Iain

> I need to break the 45 out and play with it since I learned you use a rabbeting plane to take out the waste.
> 
> I need to post my 45 iron sharpener one day. Think dremel with long chainsaw sharpening stone coming out an angled block. Works surprisingly well.
> 
> - TheFridge


You have me intrigued!


----------



## duckmilk

^ Me too.

Great idea Pete!


----------



## August

It's been a while since I posted here
Hello all
I have lots of edges to do 
Hard maple









And also thank God for the micro jig 
I would just hate for finger to be the green that you see 
LOL


----------



## theoldfart

"How does your bench stay so pristine Kev? I figured by now it would have some dings and patina to it ;-) "

Easy Duck, don't do anything


----------



## TheFridge

August, what's up man. Good to see you around.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Is there a website for them or did you just go to one of their stores?
> 
> - duckmilk


https://www.fastenal.com/en/22/third-party-logistics-(3pl)

You fill out the info on a quote request. Then they set it up with the stores. Their response time was very good.

Sidenote: Fastenal's stocks is one of the few that have out-performed Apple in the past 15 years. If I only had a crystal ball


----------



## Mosquito

And if only my sister got a stock option lol She's been working there for almost 10 years now


----------



## ColonelTravis

Hey August.
Whaddya making? Chair? Bench? Table? Bowling ally?


----------



## August

Thanks fridge,
Building a shoe rack for a customer
Was trying to ask a question last night but the site was down

Need help on how to properly attach the hardmalpe to edge of the ply wood
It will get a lot of use since it's for shoes


----------



## bondogaposis

Need help on how to properly attach the hardmalpe to edge of the ply wood
It will get a lot of use since it's for shoes

Just glue and clamp.


----------



## theoldfart

All it takes is just a moment of inattention. This should have been a centered tenon on one end and a tenon flush with the top on the other end, I made both flush with the top edge. Oh well. Time to make yet another floating tenon.


----------



## jmartel

> Need help on how to properly attach the hardmalpe to edge of the ply wood
> It will get a lot of use since it s for shoes
> 
> - August McCormick Lehman III


How about a full length spline? Make it 1/4" thick and a 1/2" deep slot in the plywood. Should reinforce it nicely.


----------



## DanKrager

If you want to spend some more money on tools, August, this pair of cutters makes very quick, durable edge band strip attachment. Look below for the mate. Self aligning, extra glue area, a bit of stiffener, and a solid wood edge that you can put molding on with a 45…. 

DanK


----------



## August

Thanks jarmtel









No more money Dan


----------



## duckmilk

Thanks for the link Dan. That may be handy shipping stuff to my son.

That will work fine Auggie.


----------



## theoldfart

The case work is done.


----------



## jmartel

Looks great, Kevin.


----------



## TheFridge

Can't wait to see the finished product Kev.


----------



## Brit

Looking good Kev.


----------



## theoldfart

Thank you fellas. In addition to making the drawers I have to cut the ogee curves on the bottom apron and sides. THEN, I get to carve a shell in the middle bottom drawer, working on the practice one now.


----------



## DanKrager

Good show, Kev. Let's see the progression on the practice piece.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

OK Dan, be gentle. It's my first time!


----------



## ColonelTravis

You're gonna have one nice piece of furniture. 
Are you practicing in poplar?


----------



## theoldfart

Yes, but the changing colors makes it hard to see my lines and shape. I should have used a more even colored piece.


----------



## DanKrager

You're off to a good start, Kevin. Gain confidence quickly so you can use long, masterful strokes and you will be amazed at how smoothly you can finish. Sandpaper will ruin it. Suggest try it again on the same material if you can find a scrap even close to big enough. By then you for sure will have the confidence of how the tool interacts with the real thing. 
Anxious to see the progress. Thank you for the pictures!

Did I tell here that I have a Paduan in my shop that wants to eventually carve?

DanK


----------



## TheFridge

Eventually dan? Yoda said "Do.. or do not. There is no try." You have to train them jedis right! 

Edit: I really just wanted to throw out another Star Wars reference


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, thanks for the guidance. I have LOTS of cherry to practice on. My first mistake was to not make the depression smooth and uniform, as soon as I started to define the rays I could see my mistake.

I thought i was a paduan


----------



## theoldfart

I did a trial run on the edging for the drawers. The 405 worked flawlessly so tomorrow it's the real drawers. Must go slowly, Must go slowly , Must go slowly , Must go slowly …............


----------



## bearkatwood

Great stuff.


----------



## theoldfart

Brian thanks and have a good time at Handworks.


----------



## PPK

I finished my chair, here's the link if anybody'd like to take a look. http://lumberjocks.com/projects/318945
One more project out of the shop officially!


----------



## TraylorPark

Finished the cabinet here is the link for the project posting http://lumberjocks.com/projects/321145

Up next is a shop remodel. I've got some white metal barn siding that my brother scored for free for me that will be used as the ceiling with lots of insulation. I also got some nice vinyl windows for the back wall and am still on the lookout for a couple more for the south wall. I'm also planning on making a new work bench that will be smaller than the current one I have so I can move it out away form the wall to work all the way around it. The layout is another area that I will be playing with too. I got a new table saw in April and in it's current location it makes walking around a little tight.

I can only assume with the quietness of the thread of late that everyone is busy with projects so keep at em and enjoy.


----------



## PPK

Great work, Zach! I think I enjoy building and setting up shop as much as I do building in it… Have fun!

I have been busy… even if progress is slow. And have been missing seeing shots of everyone's work!

Moldings for the fancy book case. I couldn't get big cove molding locally, or the types of moldings I want, so I'm making all of them:























Doors are done:








and the carcasses are done too (only the sides shown):


----------



## DanKrager

That is awesome, PPK. Nice moldings!

DanK


----------



## TraylorPark

Thanks, Pete.

That sure is one fancy bookcase. Do you have a router bit for the coves or are you cutting them on the table saw?


----------



## PPK

Table saw. They're over 4" wide. Then I clean up all the saw marks with a card scraper.


----------



## CL810

For your consideration, Phillip Morley Furniture .


----------



## PPK

Alright already, isn't anyone building anything??

I got my book case done…

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/325673


----------



## DanKrager

This is "live in" furniture, yes?

DanK


----------



## TraylorPark

That is some outstanding work, Pete!

I'm not really building any furniture right now. I am making a small box for silverware that I should have done this week. After that I will start tearing apart the shop. I did acquire the last window off Craig's List, a nice big double slider, 4'x7'. After that the CFO, my lovely wife, informed me that shop purchases will have to be greatly reduced. So I might have to sneak the material for the remodel Johnny Cash style, one piece at a time . I now have all the windows, ceiling material, all the electrical material and some insulation. I will probably be able to get all the framing done with a good vapor barrier behind it without much detection. Now hanging drywall might be another story.


----------



## PPK

Dan, your outlets are upside down ;-) Lol. Love the paneling - is it pine?

Zach - funny. I love that song. Sneak it on in. I was hiding my wife's birthday presents in my "toolcrib" room in my shop, and told her to not go in there. It was a great way to sneak a couple new tools in the meantime while she couldn't check my inventory.


----------



## DanKrager

Yes, it is a long needle pine from a beautiful windbreak the power company made me destroy.

Outlet positioning is apparently a controversial matter. I cannot see where in the Federal code (which seems to be all that applies here) it says which direction to put them. After talking with several electricians in the area only one puts them so the children see smiley faces and get curious. McDonalds learned an important lesson because they settled a multi million dollar lawsuit for a serious injury that occurred when a metal pan fell against an outlet whose plug was partly exposed and the resulting short and flash caused both serious injury and a fire. That would not have happened if the ground plug was on top like I have them. The one electrician I explained this to has changed his ways now.

Did you see that the screws were clocked?

DanK


----------



## PPK

It is indeed controversial… I just had to badger you. My grandpa always installed outlets "upside down." My house and shop had a number of them that way, and I flipped them because it bothered me. And then clocked all the screws because that bothered me too! (I didn't notice yours - couldn't see that detail in the picture). Never heard the McDonalds story. That makes perfect sense though. You may have made another convert.


----------



## ToddJB

I'm not sure if it was code or not, but when I finished my basement my electrical inspector asked me to put them ground up.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Pete, wonderful job. How did you do this large concave-ness?


----------



## PPK

On the table saw. The picture right above the one you're looking at shows the fence setup to run it across the blade at a diagonal. Then lots of clean up with a card scraper and sandpaper. The local hardwood supplier wouldn't make cove molding for me, else I probably would have just bought it.


----------



## CB_Cohick

I was just checking in to my favorite thread, and it does seem like things are in a lull. I am in the final stretch of a desk I have been working on.









It isn't in the same league as what some of you fellers build, but I think I can make it work. Breadboard ends and a try at inlay were the new skills for me on this one.









Oh, and I tried my hand at veneering. These walnut burl veneer drawer fronts weren't as much of a pain as I expected.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Dang Chris. Looks great. A desk for my son is in the lineup this year.

I'm still around… livin lovin, lovin livin….it's all good. Went on a Canadian fishing trip:









Also having fun with my other hobby…craft brewing. Today's the first day in my shop in over a month. Feels good. I'm making the little drop in trays for a big batch of jewelry boxes. I dislike tedious little parts and repetition….but I need to power through.


----------



## bobasaurus

> Great looking table, I like the stretchers. They remind me of a look I was going for with my pirouette table that I did.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love those chairs too, great stuff.
> 
> - bearkatwood


Those are some neat tables, Brian.


----------



## JayT

Looking stellar, Chris.

Red, glad to see you haven't fallen off the end of the world. Or a Canadian lake, which is about the same thing.


----------



## bearkatwood

Thank you bobasaurus.


----------



## bobasaurus

Chris, your inlay table is impressive. How are you doing the inlay? The breadboard ends look really clean.


----------



## JADobson

Hey Red. Where in our great northern wasteland were you?


----------



## TheFridge

Solid work ladies. Keep it comin.

There is no proper way to put in a receptacle. I put mine ground down because most 90 deg cord ends have the ground at the bottom.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Hey Red. Where in our great northern wasteland were you?
> 
> - JADobson


Lac Seul…Ontario. I would have called and offered you a beer….but we lost cell phone reception 5 miles across the boarder;-)

This pic is a few of the guys from my "Bible an Brew" club. Most of the guys are professionals in this little town (those two are Docs). Those buggers got me into home brewing. Much like woodworking, there's never ending knowledge to be obtained….and fun to be had.

They've all been been awesome friends and brothers to this red-headed stepchild. I am blessed and grateful.


----------



## JADobson

> Lac Seul…Ontario. I would have called and offered you a beer….but we lost cell phone reception 5 miles across the boarder;-)
> 
> This pic is a few of the guys from my "Bible an Brew" club. Most of the guys are professionals in this little town (those two are Docs). Those buggers got me into home brewing. Much like woodworking, there s never ending knowledge to be obtained….and fun to be had.
> 
> They ve all been been awesome friends and brothers to this red-headed stepchild. I am blessed and grateful.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Haha, only 1200 km away. Typical cell service though. Its good to have brothers like that. Just started at a new church a few months ago and for a introvert like myself its a challenge to get there.

Back to furniture, I posted this in the projects a while ago and meant to add it to this thread but forgot. Kitchen table made entirely from construction grade lumber. Just under 7 feet long and just under 4 feet wide. The top is made up of 2×8s with 2×6 breadboards. Legs are four 2×6s laminated and turned. Aprons are two 2×4s laminated with double tenons 2" long into each leg. Table weighs a ton (which is good because my kids liked to push the old ikea table all around the kitchen). Base is painted white while the top has walnut gel stain and six coats of arm-r-seal.


----------



## CB_Cohick

> Chris, your inlay table is impressive. How are you doing the inlay? The breadboard ends look really clean.
> 
> - bobasaurus


Thanks Allen. I found a template at Tarter Woodworking that made it fairly simple. That was my first try with inlay, and I was pleased with how it turned out. I am going to experiment with making my own templates.


----------



## JayT

First attempt at dovetailed casework.


----------



## theoldfart

Pretty damn good for a first shot Jay


----------



## TheFridge

You serious jay? I would've thought you would've been there and done that.


----------



## JayT

Thanks, Kevin.



> You serious jay? I would ve thought you would ve been there and done that.
> 
> - TheFridge


Dead serious. Since getting back into woodworking about five years ago, I haven't made a lot of furniture and nothing that had dovetails stretching over a decent width, just boxes and shop stuff. This piece isn't technically going to be furniture, either, but I'm planning on building my wife a decent sized jewelry box for Christmas this year and wanted to practice a bit, so am using furniture-like techniques. After nine drawers and the case, all this weekend, my dovetailing skills are honed up sharper than they have ever been.


----------



## ToddJB

Hmmmm, you making yourself a machinist chest, JayT?


----------



## JayT

> Hmmmm, you making yourself a machinist chest, JayT?
> 
> - ToddJB


Maaaayyyybee. If someone unnamed person who hoards chests would share some of their riches, I might not have to resort to desperate measures, like doing actual woodworking. ;-)


----------



## derekcohen

I have just completed a sofa table build. It's a little different from others I have seen insofar as the boat-shaped top has bow-front aprons, and the legs are curved and tapered. There is a hidden drawer on the left side of the table.

The base is Hard Maple (from the USA), and the top is West Australian Sheoak (similar looking to Lacewood).

The build is documented on my website:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/SofaTableAprons.html

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/SofaTable-Legs.html

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/SofaTableIIIEndRails.html

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/TheBevelLiesInTheDetails.html

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/SofaTableSecretDrawer.html

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/SofaTableAllTheWayToCompletion.html

Here is the Sheoak top. It is absolutely gorgeous … and will look even better ofter a couple more coats of Livos Wood Oil. The Hard Maple base is finished in 2 coats of unwaxed shellac (to add a touch of amber) and then 3 hand-rubbed coats of General Finishes water-based poly to retain the colour (to prevent the maple becoming yellow).

If you look carefully, you will see that the apron is bowed to match the curve of the top- as are the faces of the legs …



















Here is a side elevation of the shaped ends …










The hidden drawer (made to look like a side apron) slides out this far (all details of construction are in the articles above). The drawer runs the full length of the carcase and has two further hidden compartments. The construction is dovetail and slip.










Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## mramseyISU

Dammit Derek, I was just about to post a picture of a set of nightstands I finished up that I was damn proud of and you had to go and post that. Maybe I should start drinking out of my shoe like you Aussies do so I can start making nice things.


----------



## derekcohen

We drink out of shoes?! 

Post your nightstands! 

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## PPK

Woah! Fantastic execution, Derek! The sheoak is beautiful. 
I also think I need to confess jealously when I look at your build photos and see all your top notch tools…


----------



## derekcohen

Pete, thanks for the kind words.

Regarding the tools: I have an equal number of vintage tools and shopmade tools. Some of the premium tools are just … well … nice … but they do not build better than a well preserved and tuned vintage tool.

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## mramseyISU

> We drink out of shoes?!
> 
> Post your nightstands!
> 
> Regards from Perth
> 
> Derek
> 
> - Derek Cohen


I guess I'm baseing your whole country on the actions of one Daniel Riccardo.

Here are the night stands.


----------



## bearkatwood

Derek, beautifully proportioned, very well made. The bow front probably wouldn't be noticed by many due to the boat shaped top, but it would look strange without it. You killed it and that wood you chose for the top is amazing. Of course I couldn't help but stare at the chair in the background.


----------



## derekcohen

Ah .. The Chair … designed by Hans Wegner and built by myself a few years ago. I was quite pleased with that one …



















Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## bearkatwood

I should hope so, it is a great chair. I would love to make one.


----------



## derekcohen

Thanks Brian. Just scan down the index page to Building Han's Wegner's The Chair>

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/index.html

There is a blow-by-blow pictorial over several weeks.

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## derekcohen

duplicate .. deleted


----------



## bearkatwood

That top link doesn't work, but I will check it out on your site. Thanks, oh and really nice job on the table.


----------



## bearkatwood

I know this doesn't have much to do with this forum, but I am so excited to have just gotten my scrapers listed with Crafted Studio. 









Scraper page

This is a big deal I think  I am just pumped


----------



## PPK

Sweet, Brian! Ironically, I was looking on their website just today at the LN and LV tools, and noticed they only sold those gooseneck scrapers… I just sniffed and thought to myself, "Hah! I've got a way better scraper than that, with a cool BEAR logo on it" 

You now officially sell a "fine woodworking tool"


----------



## ToddJB

Congrats, Brian! For future reference, does it financially benefit you more if we go through there or buy from you directly?


----------



## bearkatwood

Well obviously I make more if you buy directly from me. The point of offering my scrapers and saws was never about making money to me, but putting a quality tool into your hands. But I don't mind a little extra green if you want to buy from me.


----------



## woodcox

I've had a set of different profiles in the wishlist for awhile. I really think my new bearkat should serve me for anything I can see a need for. Great design with it Brian, thanks a lot!


----------



## bearkatwood

I am still giddy over it, very cool. I got all the electrical done in the new shop and I am waiting for the drywallers. I am getting antsy to get back to work.


----------



## bondogaposis

I can attest that Brian's scrapers are an excellent bargain. I bought mine a few months ago and I have been using it steadily ever since. The shape is very perfect for a lot of things and the steel is quality.


----------



## bearkatwood

Very glad to hear it.


----------



## doubleG469

> Thanks Brian. Just scan down the index page to Building Han s Wegner s The Chair>
> 
> http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/index.html
> 
> There is a blow-by-blow pictorial over several weeks.
> 
> Regards from Perth
> 
> Derek
> 
> - Derek Cohen


Damn Derek, nice builds… I think I shall now sell all my tools and take up a new hobby….


----------



## bearkatwood

I know, good stuff. I am content to push thru my mediocrity and hopefully someday reach that level of "pretty good"  I will check out that chair build Derek, if I ever get time. One of these years I would love to make a trip to Australia. So many good woodworkers there.


----------



## AlaskaGuy

Anyone ever use Liquid Nails furniture glue?

What do/did you think of it. I'm mostly interested because of the no drip aspect.

http://www.liquidnails.com/products/construction-adhesive-LN206


----------



## bearkatwood

Didn't even know it existed. I will have to give it a try and put it to the test. Thanks.


----------



## builtinbkyn

> The case work is done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart


Nice work Kevin. The legs came out beautifully. It's going to be a fine looking piece.

Man, thankfully this was on the second to last page of thousands of posts. I need to follow this thread more closely


----------



## derekcohen

> Thanks Brian. Just scan down the index page to Building Han s Wegner s The Chair>
> 
> http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/index.html
> 
> There is a blow-by-blow pictorial over several weeks.
> 
> Regards from Perth
> 
> Derek
> 
> - Derek Cohen
> 
> Damn Derek, nice builds… I think I shall now sell all my tools and take up a new hobby….
> 
> - doubleG469


Thanks Gary (and thanks to all)

How much do you want for all your tools? (there is method to my madness!) ... just kidding 

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## theoldfart

Since Bill asked, the top drawer is almost fitted except for the bottom. It will be pine, beveled and fitted into a 1/4" groove.









flattened and smoothed one side









Scribed the thickness









beveled to avoid spelching









and finally scrub plane to waste away the excess









almost there


----------



## ColonelTravis

Scrub use - yeah! Grueling but satisfying. I've got an old 40 1/2 and later bought a toothed blade for my LA jack that works great for refined scrubbing when you get close to the line and/or don't want much tearout.

Is that drawer bottom 1/4" thick, or is it thicker with a rabbet fit into a 1/4" groove?


----------



## duckmilk

My scrub plane blade came with a much tighter radius on it than yours Kev. I am gradually reducing it every time I sharpen, but have a way to go yet. It is annoying that it currently only uses about 1/3 of its cutting edge, even with a heavy cut.


----------



## theoldfart

Bottom is 1/2" thick with the edges beveled to fit a 1/4" groove.

Edit Duck I reground the radius as it was like yours. Way to steep a curve.


----------



## August

Hey folks hi to all of you guys 
I can finally say I made my first fine woodworking project mostly made by hands 
What do you guys think?
Lots of chisel and hamplane work 
And enough dovetail to make my head explode


----------



## bearkatwood

Dovetails will do that to you. Nice stuff


----------



## ColonelTravis

kidding. Old MST3K joke.

August that is awesome. What was your technique with getting rid of the waste in the blind dovetails? I've tried using an old card scraper and banging it with a hammer down the sides after you saw them to make it easier to pare out. Worked OK. Need to practice more.

Rob Cosman sells this thing for blind dovetail sides (similar concept to banging a card scraper) and I'm sure it works great but it's $100. Should try to make my own.


----------



## August

Plain chisel work 
Then I watch a
Fine woodworking YouTube video 
So I made my own using an old paint mixer








I tell you one thing it was fun 
But I need advice on a good marking knife
Any brand? 
And also I took lots of video 
I wish there's a way to up load videos from instagram to this site

Anyway lots of sharpening also


----------



## DanKrager

Hey, Mr. Lehman! Good to see the posts here. 
My favorite marking knife is made from a broken jointer blade (don't ask). It's about 5" long and I ground the sharp edge all the way back and a long V taper on the end and rounded one side of the point, leaving one side flat. With no wooden handle to get in the way, I can mark precisely along any flat surface using the knife to project the plane onto another surface. It's tapered and thin enough to get into restricted corners, stiff enough not to bend, sharp enough to cut a clean line, durable enough not to need sharpening until you drop it. I store it with a tight fitting plastic cap over the point, point down in my upper apron pocket. If it falls out of the swinging pocket, i don't want the point to hit first.
I've never used a thin steel to deepen the saw cut of a blind dovetail. It seems like it would tear more than cut. I guess going with the grain helps. After outlining, I chop from the inside face and work the walls back incrementally with the base line cleanup. This guarantees a clean cut. 
DanK


----------



## TheFridge

I like the veritas myself. Plastic handle but I'll replace it sooner or later. Works great for me.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Fridge I use the same one and like it.


----------



## derekcohen

Rob Cosman sells this thing for blind dovetail sides (similar concept to banging a card scraper) and I'm sure it works great but it's $100. Should try to make my own.

I made this "kerfing chisel" for dovetail sockets years before Cosman came up with the idea. The vertical orientation of my version offers much better visibility and control.










In any event, the concept was first that of Tage Frid, who used a bandsaw blade.

I've never used a thin steel to deepen the saw cut of a blind dovetail. It seems like it would tear more than cut.

It is important that the end of the steel "blade" is *square *and not bevelled - a bevel will cleave the wood with the grain.

Details of my kerfing chisel here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/KerfChisel.html

But I need advice on a good marking knife
Any brand?

You can always buy the best from Chris Vesper (I designed these) 



















Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## bearkatwood

I saw Frid use a scraper blade, not bandsaw blade, but I get what you are saying. I was going to make one of those for myself too. Ron Bontz makes some as well as Cosman. I really like the vertical orientation of this one. It's not half bad looking either 
On the marking knife, I used a hacksaw blade and filed off the teeth, then sharpened it with a single bevel on a pointed shape like the one above and it gets into amazingly hard to reach places. I have thought about making them for sale, but I am so far into the tool game already I am starting to wonder if I will ever cut a dovetail again.


----------



## bearkatwood

Half Blind dovetail Kerfing tool from Ron Bontz Saw works.


----------



## derekcohen

I designed and made these dovetail/detail knives and scratch awls a dozen (or more) years ago ..










The knife blade is a HSS jigsaw blade. Very tough and holds a great edge. A few years ago, Chris Vesper was looking for a design, and I said he could make mine - he is a friend - as I have no interest in making them commercially. I have no financial involvement with his sales.

I do have a pictorial on my website for making them for yourself (not commercially). Help yourself …

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/A%20Knife%20for%20Marking%20Dovetails.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## CL810

Really nice work Auggie!


----------



## derekcohen

With regard the brass backs of the Cosman and Bontz's copy kerf tools, I wonder how long they will stand up to a hammer blow?

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## mramseyISU

> With regard the brass backs of the Cosman and Bontz s copy kerf tools, I wonder how long they will stand up to a hammer blow?
> 
> Regards from Perth
> 
> Derek
> 
> - Derek Cohen


I never knew such a thing existed. I've been using a sharpened card scraper and smacking it with my hammer. They do have my attention.


----------



## August

Thanks Andy 
Since I have no experience with cutting dovetail 
I enjoyed the chisel work since it wasn't for work or a customer 
But after watching the guy from finewoodworking magazine using a card scraper I tried it using a home made tool ,
I wish I can say it made a difference but the bottom line I don't even know what I'm doing.
I even saw some using a drill to clean up some of the waste,.
And with that hammering it with a steel my opinion you might run into splitting?
Anyway I would look itnto it some
Ore since I enjoyed doing that work,.

Hey derek nice work on the merging chisel

I need to make for japanese saw
Since I can't use my western saw I just can't cut straight with them


----------



## ColonelTravis

Derek, I thought I'd seen all your handmade things but not that kerfing chisel. Thanks for posting it.

By the way, Cosman credits Tage Frid for the idea behind his dovetail kerfing tool. I've also wondered about how the brass would hold up. It's extra thick and when he hits it it's not a big whack. But who knows.


----------



## derekcohen

Yeah, Tage Frid was a great teacher. He influenced many woodworkers. There is a video of his floating around inwhich he demonstrates hammering a bandsaw blade into the kerf to deepen it. Probably made about 20 or more years ago. I think he also used a scraper blade. Wacked it in with a hammer.

I work with very hard woods. THey can also be quite brittle, hence my warning (through experience) to use a clamp on the pin board when hammering in the kerfing chisel. Even the square ends of my design could split the board if one goes about this carelessly. Take small "bites" rather than wack the full length of the kerf all at once. And because my wood is hard, I give it a solid wack - I really doubt that brass would hold up. Rob Cosman demos using soft woods, so his experience will be different.

I also tend to make very slim "London" dovetails. The sockets are fragile to clean out. Extra care is needed here …










Tutorial on cleaning out half-blind dovetails: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HalfBlindDovetailswithBlueTape.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## Pezking7p

^^^Never seen the tape thing before. Pretty cool way to mark. I've been using a kerfing knife technique (I actually just use my dovetail saw to make the kerf, it's a little clumsy) that works pretty well once you get your shimming correct.

Question:

I'm about to router some curved headrests for chairs using a pattern bit and a router, just like what BRK did here: http://www.westfallwoodcraft.com/2015/06/dining-set-tutorial-3-front-legs-and.html

However, I'm wondering if I need the full top-and-bottom style patterns, or can I just use a single pattern on the bottom, make a single pass, and then use that first pass as a guide for the upper portion? I'm guessing it's a safety thing? Too dangerous to run a piece like that through on edge?

Or maybe, now that I'm really thinking it through, the bit's not tall enough to make two passes, so you have to make a pass from the top and a pass from the bottom.

Also, now that I'm realizing how much work is involved, I'm thinking that since I only have to make two, I'll mark the curves, cut as carefully as I can on the bandsaw, and then clean them up by hand. Probably less time overall. And save me from having to buy a $150 router bit.

Thoughts?


----------



## PPK

Steam bend. IMO its easier. You don't need to start with as thick of wood, and then you don't have funky "cut grain." Just my opinion. And I suppose it's not easier if you don't have a steaming setup.

Otherwise, I'd use bandsaw, and then clean it up with spokeshave and card scraper. You could still spend $150 on a nice spokeshave if you wanted to… heheh


----------



## TheFridge

Have to check those marking knives Derek. I like my veritas marking knife of the same style but it's plastic.


----------



## jmartel

Pez, you could also do a bent lamination.


----------



## August

Good morning folks I must say woodworking with hand tools is a lot of fun


----------



## bearkatwood

Quite the grain you have going on that piece. Nice stuff.


----------



## PPK

Really sharp! What is the darker wood with the big grain? (the carcass)


----------



## CL810

Really nice Auggie! Wow.


----------



## August

> Really sharp! What is the darker wood with the big grain? (the carcass)
> 
> - PPK


I might spelling it wrong 
It's called sapele mahogany

Thanks Andy

Thanks Brian


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen

Thought i would share my latest project here with you guys:


----------



## bearkatwood

Hmmmm, not too friggin bad.


----------



## August

Nicely done 
That's my next quest is to learn how to make chairs
Very nice work


----------



## bearkatwood

Looks like you have a pretty good start on things.


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen

Thanks guys!
August: It indeed looks like you have all it takes. Good luck!
Brian: Coming from a chair-master like you I take that as a great compliment


----------



## bearkatwood

I just try to give the trees a decent burial


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> However, I m wondering if I need the full top-and-bottom style patterns, or can I just use a single pattern on the bottom, make a single pass, and then use that first pass as a guide for the upper portion? I m guessing it s a safety thing? Too dangerous to run a piece like that through on edge?
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> - Pezking7p


Pez. I've done it before with just a bottom bearing patter bit…and a pattern just on the bottom. Then a top bearing bit….that rode against the first cut. It works…but it can be dicey.

You can save on the big bit, but I'd still get a spiral flush trim bit. And keep in mind, the more stout your pattern/jig…the safer your operation will be.


----------



## TheFridge

August. I'd be proud to have that. I would treat it like the child I actually wanted


----------



## August

Fridge your to cool how have you been?


----------



## DanKrager

Do I understand correctly that you used mostly hand tools here, Auggie? I can see why your designer likes the wood!

DanK


----------



## bobasaurus

August, that is some seriously nice work. Did you make the drawer pulls?


----------



## wormil

Very nice August. I have a similar piece that I made back in the 90's, except from poplar, and I have always really liked the proportions and overall look of it. Yours is way better and it makes me want to remake mine and use nicer wood.


----------



## August

Thanks Dan 
75% hand tools I guess

Thanks Allen 
I wish it's from menards I wanted to match the kitchen and the other project I just finish for the wife again LOL

Thansk Rick

Don't say to much. Nice words to me because now 
I'm thinking I can do wood working

Thanks for nice words guys


----------



## theoldfart

Another small milestone in my build, top drawer mostly done. 100% by hand since the drawer is both wider and deeper than my lunchbox can handle!


















ugly bottom though


----------



## TraylorPark

That's looking great, Kevin.

I recently took a hand tool course from a local craftsman and one, of the many, many, bits of wisdom he threw out was "the difference between a professional and a hobbyist is a hobbyist will show you the mistakes." So I'd say we don't mention the blemishes and if anyone is rude enough to point them out on a finished project in your own house we should politely, but firmly ask them to leave


----------



## RichT

> I recently took a hand tool course from a local craftsman and one, of the many, many, bits of wisdom he threw out was "the difference between a professional and a hobbyist is a hobbyist will show you the mistakes." So I d say we don t mention the blemishes and if anyone is rude enough to point them out on a finished project in your own house we should politely, but firmly ask them to leave
> 
> - TraylorPark


That was a tough one to overcome for me. The thing that cured me was when I read an article that pointed out how insulting it is to someone who just complimented your work to have the mistakes pointed out to them. It's like telling them they don't know what they're talking about.

Now, I just smile and say thanks.


----------



## Nugs

I haven't checked this thread in over a year, I just spent the past day and a half catching up. Some top notch work being put out, I think my personal favourites are the walnut & glass bookshelf by Big Red and the carved two person bench (I forgot who did that one).

Hope you don't mind the dump, but here is some furniture I've built over the past year. My production has slowed down in the past 6 months though as my wife had a baby in January.









A Federal style walnut hutch.









A change table for the baby.









A chest of drawers for my wife.









A bookshelf for my hallway.









A coffee table wedding gift for my sister in law.









A set of nesting tables.









Let's just say I've been cutting a lot of dovetails over the past year.


----------



## TheFridge

August, pretty good man. Good to see you drop in every now and again.


----------



## August

Thanks Fridge

Nugs nice work 
I would love to copy that halfway Bookshelves


----------



## jmartel

Dang, Nugs has been busy.


----------



## builtinbkyn

> Another small milestone in my build, top drawer mostly done. 100% by hand since the drawer is both wider and deeper than my lunchbox can handle!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ugly bottom though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart


Looking great Kevin. Lipped drawer front with half-blind DTs. Nice!


----------



## PPK

Really nice work, Nugs!

Also, Kevin, Nugs, all you guys that can do dovetails and persevere with the hand tool work - I admire you!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Top Notch Nugs.

My mini-me and his first woodworking project.


----------



## bobasaurus

Wish I had tools like those for my first project, very nice.


----------



## TraylorPark

As always, stellar stuff popping up in this thread.

So I was warned by the CFO about the purchases for the shop remodel and have, for the time, put a large scale renovation on hold. So in the mean time I thought I would build some furniture. Always a smart move in my book. Anyway I would really appreciate some thoughts on the design below. I'm calling it a credenza, but it really could be used in multiple settings, a buffet, a hall table, or most likely a TV stand. I've got a lot of cherry on hand and ready so that is what the legs, box and top will be made of. For the door panels I was thinking some QS sycamore or if I could find some highly figured slab of some contrasting material that I could book match, provided it didn't cost a ton. So any thoughts on size, material, or overall appearance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.


----------



## bondogaposis

I like it, to me it screams entertainment center. Did you intend for the grain to run front to back on the top? That looks wrong to me and makes the breadboards unnecessary. Some spalted maple for the door panels is something to consider and as you mentioned sycamore is a good choice as well. I would think about a tempered glass door for the middle and some ventilation for the back, again I'm thinking entertainment center. Keep us posted this is going to be a solid project.


----------



## DanKrager

Sketchup does not do a good job with material representation. It's very time consuming to orient the grain representations. But yes, the grain should go lengthwise on the top and shelves, and vertical on the panels.

That could be a very sharp looking piece. IMHO, the curves could be more subtle, and perhaps reflected in the edges of the top.

DanK


----------



## Nugs

Thanks everyone. 

I like the look of that credenza, I have built a few pieces out of cherry with spalted maple/birch door panels, I really like the look, seconding what Bondo said.

One thing to consider is a couple of horizontal pieces on the side to dress it up a bit, something like this:


----------



## PPK

TraylorPark, If that was my piece, I'd try my hand at inlays. I'm not sure what, but something that fits your style/means something to you/your family. Lots of nice flat surfaces for inlays! I'd also add some pegs. Need pegs… Just a suggestion


----------



## TraylorPark

Thanks all for the input. Some really great ideas that I had not thought of. The build, hopefully, will start next week. I'll be sure to update. Thanks again.


----------



## bearkatwood

Nice work and I like the addition of some side rails.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'm about done with this big batch of jewelry boxes. I brought in my friend who has a laser engraver for the finishing touches. Hand carving the lids would've been too much. So, I let the parents of each girl pick something to be engraved in each lid. They turned out great.


----------



## PPK

They look great, Big Red Boxmaster!


----------



## bearkatwood

I like the inlay Red, looks like you have been busy. Wish I had something to contribute to the forum. I am still trying to put my new shop together. For those of you that don't know, I moved from Oregon to Washington and had to start all over with a new space. I have posted on youtube about the remodel and move. Here is a picture of the new space.









and LINK to the remodel on youtube.

I hope to be adding to the furniture making conversation again soon. 
Have a wonderful weekend!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That new shop looks outstanding Brian. Wish you'd made a bigger bench now?? lol.

I'll build a bigger bench if I ever get a bigger shop. i love making benches.


----------



## bearkatwood

I plan on making at least two new benches to go in front of mine for students/ family to work at.


----------



## Just_Iain

> First attempt at dovetailed casework.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - JayT


I hope mine looks that good. Haven't worked up the nerve yet.


----------



## builtinbkyn

> I plan on making at least two new benches to go in front of mine for students/ family to work at.
> 
> - bearkatwood


I know it probably doesn't feel that way at times, but things are coming along. Oh and you're going to need a bigger bench. It looks lonely and small standing there in that big open space


----------



## jmartel

What part of WA, Brian?


----------



## bearkatwood

Nice work Jay T. 
I am on Whidbey Island in Oak Harbor. 
My bench is 6' long and 3' wide, I think that is big enough. I don't mind little extra space after so many years of having no elbow room.


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## jmartel

I was just up there for work last weekend. You have the chance to make it over to the San Juans yet? Worth the trip over.


----------



## rad457

> Nice work Jay T.
> I am on Whidbey Island in Oak Harbor.
> My bench is 6 long and 3 wide, I think that is big enough. I don t mind little extra space after so many years of having no elbow room.
> 
> - bearkatwood


If you get the chance head north to Roberts Creek B.C. and check out Inside Passage School, worth the trip if you have an interest in Krenov. Or head over to Vancouver Island and see Pauls shop (aka Shipwright)


----------



## bearkatwood

There are so many more woodworkers around here than there were in Bandon. I have been to Orcas Island. I have a seen a bit of the area, but I mostly have been busy trying to get back to work.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Brian - I thanked you on the american hand tool thread but if you missed it I wanted to thank you here and spread the word about your scraper. I've got 4 brands of card scrapers and yours is hands-down the best I've used. Thanks so much, I've used it a lot making a mesquite desk now. Will post some photo updates on that here soon. Good luck at your new place, great space you've got there.


----------



## bearkatwood

Thanks ColonelTravis I didn't see the hand tool thread. I stopped getting updates on them as I haven't bought any tools in a while. I kind of cursed Red for starting that thread as it made me lust after too many more and I think I need a 12 step program or something. I spent way too much last year on tools.
I am so glad to hear you liked the scraper. I have high hopes for them, we will just have to wait and see what happens.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> I am on Whidbey Island in Oak Harbor.
> 
> - bearkatwood


You don't say. My cousin, the one I shipped that record player stand to earlier this year….is getting married on Whidbey Island Today!! I sure wish I could've made it.


----------



## bearkatwood

Well me too Red, then you could have skipped the wedding and helped me make some work stations for my shop. I mean of course we would have gone to the reception, kids gotta eat right?


----------



## CL810

Well duh, Bandon is golf heaven.



> There are so many more woodworkers around here than there were in Bandon.
> 
> - bearkatwood


----------



## PPK

That's some cool flooring you've got in your Shop, BearCat… what kind of wood is it?

TraylorPark, how you coming along on your credenza/TV stand??


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## bearkatwood

Old growth doug fir.


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## TraylorPark

Well, I got some boards glued together, but that's about it so far for the credenza. I did finish a workbench http://lumberjocks.com/projects/334649 and am finishing up a small keepsake box for my niece's birthday. So I'm pretty much on schedule to finish sometime before Christmas, maybe say ground hog's day just to be safe.


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## Dr_T

Hi All,
Newbie furniture builder here. I'm planning on building a bedroom set and have been working on plans in Sketchup. I would like to make sure I avoid any major mistakes before I actually start building. In that vein, I'd love to get some feedback from some more experienced individuals here. I'm going for Shaker style and something fairly easy to build. I'll post pictures, and if you would like the actual .skp files to investigate in more detail, send me a PM and I can email them to you. I'm still working on the bed frame design, I'll post it once I'm done. Thanks in advance for the feedback!
Nightstand








Nightstand with drawer removed and door open








Dresser








Dresser without drawers








Dresser back


----------



## DanKrager

T, You've got a pretty good start. Any time spent on designing is time well spent. And if you invest a little time now, SU will produce a cutlist for you. That's helpful. Some versions cost a little, some are free.

The first thing that hit my design eye was the bulky overlays on the table and chest drawers. The bevels accentuate that. Scrolling down I see the more traditional frame and panel in your chest of drawers where the panel is captured in the frame. If all this is going in the same room, consistency of "style" is something to be considered. Refreshing my memory of Shaker styles, I was reminded that they were excellent, experienced craftsmen who created deceptively simple looking stuff. It takes an expert to make it look easy! I've said that to stimulate your thinking towards superb craftsmanship more than simplicity. The appearance is simple but the construction takes a good deal of focus to do it well.

Thinning up your overlaid drawer front exposure and eliminating the sharp bevels would help a lot. Insetting the drawers and doors so they are flush, even more. On the table, the bevel fights with the sharp, square edges of the door to the point of distraction IMHO.

Overall, the frames look really good, and if some adjustments can be made with drawer and door fronts, you'll have some masterpieces, again, IMHO. I really like what you've done with curves and tapers.

The chest would traditionally have "dust panels" dividers between the drawers. When drawer extension hardware is not used, dust from wood on wood contact is generated (to some small degree) and the panels would help with minimizing the effect of that along with the ambient dust accumulation from the air. In the early days, rodent and insect protection were considerations, too. Keeping each drawer isolated from the others helped with that. What are your plans for supporting the bottom of such humongous drawers?

What wood do you have to use?

DanK


----------



## Hammerthumb

I agree with all that DanK says. Inset drawers and doors, and dust frames. At that point, you could experiment with any edge details.


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## TraylorPark

I have to agree with everything Dan said. The side and back panels look very shaker, but the overlay doors and drawers don't seem to match. If you are going to go without drawer slides and use dust panels and wood runners inside then the drawers will be pretty straight forward without using false fronts. The sides can be jointed to the fronts by either half-blind dovetails, which would be the traditional rout, a dado, or even butt joints with pocket screws. I tend to like the idea of not having the metal drawer slides because you can gain and extra inch of drawer space and you save on material by not having the false front. For inset doors I like to leave about 1/16 of clearance on all sides. There are lots of hinge options from traditional flat hinges that require a small notch cut in the leg and stile to the soft-close hidden hinges.

You've got a great looking start, best of luck on finishing up the design and building. Keep us posted on progress.


----------



## Dr_T

Thanks to everyone for the replies and tips.

Dan Krager - When I originally looked at shaker style pieces, I did notice that many of them had flush front drawers. I was going to copy that style, but have some hesitations about being able to construct it to the correct tolerances to make it work. With the overlay drawers I feel like I have more leeway on my cuts and construction. 
All that said, I'm not sold on the treatment of the drawer fronts either. Bevels were easy to model in SketchUp, but there are many different router profiles available. I'm not adverse to picking any one of the styles if it would fit better. 
I was planning on using modern drawer slides for all of the drawers like these. Rockler also has their Centerline slides on sale at the moment for 50% off, so that is another option as well. Our current dressers have wooden slides, and the wife is constantly fighting with them, so part of the deal in making new was to use modern drawer slide hardware. The dresser is 36" x 16", so I was thinking about putting a center rail on the bottom of those drawers, would have to see how sturdy they are once I get them put together. The drawers are currently modeled as butt joints, again due to limitations of the modeling software/my laziness. 
I'm planning on constructing out of Red Oak. Not very traditional I know, but it matches well with other items in the house.

Hammerthumb - Do the dust frames serve any other purpose (i.e. structural) other than keeping the dust from one drawer from falling in the other? Neither of the current dressers have them, and they are both wood/wood contact slides.

TraylorPark/Zach - I've thought about the dovetails, and they look very pretty and traditional. However, I fear that I might be out of my skill level on that one. I've looked at box joints as well, and I think I could do those a bit more reliably, but again they would need false fronts. If you have a specific suggestion or source for hinges that you use, I'm definitely open to suggestions.


----------



## DanKrager

T, don't let dovetails intimidate you. Watch some good videos, and practice one set a day for a week, and you'll never look back. You should see some of the first efforts on LJ! Stretch…..

Yes, the dust panels do contribute a little to wracking forces, but they are no substitute for good framework because they are very thin usually, like 1/8" even.

Consider the undermount drawer hardware where you do not see the hardware when the drawer is open. Pricey, but worth it IMHO, especially with self-closing dampers…. (enabler). You keep the full width but lose some depth and it helps style consistency a little. You should have a good set of dimension or even have the sets in hand before you finish designing the framework. They're a different beast.

And consider thicker bottoms for those huge drawers, minimum 1/2". It's surprising how much weight ends up in there, with kids (grandkids) standing in there…  You need the 1/2" bottom for these undermounts anyway.

This is going to be a great addition to your portfolio, so shuck the shortcuts.

DanK


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## PPK

Hey Dr.T - Listen to Dan - he's an expert!! lol. ^

I'd also offer that if you choose to go with drawer slides vs. none, here's a good set. I've used these a lot, and they are really top notch. I've found that cheaper drawer slides are just frustration. Further, if you spend say $10 less on a pair, chances are you'll be losing ball bearings/binding/breaking/etc, and you'll be replacing them and spending more than you would have just going with the good stuff to begin with. Just my experience anyway 
Further, these are neat in that they are really easily adjustable, so it makes inset drawers easy to get centered in the opening. (A big plus for not-so skilled fellers like me)

https://www.amazon.com/TANDEM-BLUMOTION-adjustable-locking-device/dp/B00IYZ5ZIK/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1504618332&sr=8-7&keywords=blum+tandem+plus+blumotion

Really good looking designs, btw!


----------



## PPK

So some time ago I started my dining room furniture build with a set of three chairs to go around the island:









The next step is to build a dining set of 6-8 chairs and a table. I've been dreaming up the design for some time now, and think its to the point that I'm not embarrassed too much to share it with y'all and ask for input. The chairs will match the ones I've already made, and I'm really happy with the way they've turned out, so I guess I'm just looking for input on the table.









Here's the table drawings:








.
.
.









.
.
.









.
.
.
My style is Hickory with Walnut slats & pegs. I've got some really nice black walnut that looks fantastic clear coated.


----------



## ColonelTravis

I was asked to consider doing a small round table for someone I know, for his office. Nothing fancy, but he wants the finish to match the existing desk and bookcase he's got in there, I think what he has in there is cherry and it's stained and not great looking and I thought - ugh, why do people do that? Whatever. It ain't mine. Maybe it's not cherry. Doesn't matter. Like most people, he doesn't care what it takes to make a table, all he wants is a nice place to sit down with people and doesn't clash with what he's got. I've got some design ideas to send him. His current furniture has a glossy finish.

However, what I did not tell him (because I don't do this for a living and flat-out forgot) is how long it takes to make something like a table from scratch.

I'm used to making things for my house and my deadlines are whatever the heck I say they are. But I was thinking that a glossy finish would take 4-6 weeks. And before starting the build, I'd want at least a week for the boards I get to acclimate in my garage, I really would feel more comfortable with 2 weeks.

So does two months for this sort of thing sound realistic? Not sure he'd be up for that, vs. finding something at a store over a weekend. I could be wrong. Just want to make sure up front he understands what's involved.


----------



## jmartel

4-6 weeks just for the gloss finish? Seems like a long time to me. You can use this as an excuse to get a buffer and some auto polish compound. Should make quick work of the polishing. Start with a gloss poly and then level the finish. Then go at it with the polisher.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Thanks Jmart, good to know. I've done semi all sorts of things, been very patient (but never 4 weeks), had good results. Have not done gloss and wish I could remember where I saw 4-6 weeks, it must have been about cure time.

Regarding cure time, what precautions are there, if any, about using a table? All the stuff I've made has been looked at vs. touched a lot and used, so this was never a concern until now.


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## RichT

Colonel, when you say gloss, are you referring to a piano finish where it is completely smooth with no showing of the pores of the wood?


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## ColonelTravis

Not a piano finish.


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## Brit

Whilst varnish (even water-based) might be touch dry a few hours after being applied, it continues to harden over the next 30 days. In an ideal world, you wouldn't deliver a piece of furniture until after that time. If you did and the first thing the customer did was place a heavy vase of flowers on it, the chances are it would leave a mark.


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## DanKrager

CT, on a not-so-much-traditional piece that is considered more utilitarian than a poser, I'd use traditional hand tool construction techniques (for the most part) and prepare for the application of a commercial type finish that is based on alcohol dyes, glaze, and lacquer. Deft has been my finish of choice for as long as I can remember. It is a brushing lacquer that can be thinned a bit for spraying and is formulated for use on floors. Thus it is nearly as durable as polyurethane but remains serviceable and dries very fast. It has a high solids ratio, so it builds fast, about 1 mil per coat. Two good coats is usually enough, and it is very, very easy to rub out with silicone carbide paper (3M Tri-m-ite). You can also use a wet or dry autobody abrasives with mineral oil or water. A final rub with #0000 steel wool produces a fine sheen, and a top coat of Carnuba wax will shiny it up some. You can obtain a piano gloss if you want. It becomes almost water proof and it takes a while for alcohol to get to it. What might be most important in this situation is that the finish is serviceable…i.e. a top coat can be reapplied after a good cleaning and it will bond chemically and physically with the previous coat, unlike poly. It can also be spot repaired and feathered , also unlike poly. The whole finishing procedure can be done in about four days with time to harden for delivery.
This is from my experience. YMMV. I build so the next guy has a chance to service it…as it will most likely be me. In 50+ years, only one has come back for repairs, and I appreciated the ease the maker built into it.

DanK


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## ColonelTravis

Awesome, thanks so much for the info. guys. I'll probably have more questions if he wants to go through with this.


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## Dr_T

Thanks for the good suggestions on the previous pieces. Thinned out the drawer fronts as suggested (thanks Dan Krager!), they look much better. The model of the bed is below. Same thing applies to these items as well, pictures of the computer models are below, if you want the actual models to critique in more depth send me a PM. 
A few constraints to consider:
1. The entire piece has to be able to be dis-assembled into reasonable sized pieces. This is a limitation of the transport from my shop (basement) and considerations on any future house moves. If we ever move, I don't want to have to move it as a single piece. I've planned on 5 basic sections: headboard, footboard, side boxes (2), center box.
2. The headboard has to be tall enough that I can sit up against it and have it extend above my head. I find it really annoying when I sit in a bed and have the top of the headboard cutting into my back or neck.
3. The footboard needs to not stick out too far from the mattress. The wife is worried about hitting shins on anything that sticks out too far. 
Entire piece with mattress, not sure if I want to arch the bottom side rails or not:








Minus mattress and drawers:








From the back:








Side boxes:








Inside of the footboard - extra pieces on top and bottom rails are for attaching side and center boxes:


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## DanKrager

Interesting bed there, T.

My first impression is that the rails of the frames tend to show instability, or top heaviness for lack of a better description. I suggest that the top rail be narrowed and that much added to the top of the bottom rail so it's minimum width (heighth ??) is just a bit (1/4" - 3/8") wider than the top rail. This should generate a stable feeling. And IMHO do the same to the side frames. The top rail of the head board could be beefed up by maybe 1/3.

It would support tradition to have the tops of the legs shaped to an almost flat pyramid. You could even add a sort of traditional faux pegged tenon mixed with actual pegged tenons on the headboard and footboard legs. The fake pegs would be on the ends of the headboard and footboard. Maybe that would push it too close to the Arts and Crafts, Mission, Greene and Greene, etc. style.

How do you plan to secure the side frames to the head and foot board so they will remain solid and yet disassemble easily?

Plywood flat panels? Loose hardwood panels will be very heavy and not contribute to strength. Without panels contributing to weight distribution, all the center weight of the bed will be held up by four rails, two in the headboard and two in the footboard. Consider: Two adults at 350 lbs, two grandkids at 200 lbs, a dog at 80 lbs, the mattress and gear at 80 lbs, maybe 200 lbs of stuff in the drawers and the drawers themselves and one begins to approach 900 lbs. Well over 1000 lbs with the full weapons cache there in the middle! In the picture below, these upholstered panels are "loose" in that they can be removed and recovered, for whatever reason. Would you find loose upholstered panels like below both attractive and consistent enough with the style? They are secured to a one piece plywood back screwed to the frame. 









Just tossing out some thoughts.

DanK


----------



## Dr_T

Dan,
Thanks for the feedback. Interesting, huh? I must have goofed up really badly on this one. ;-)

I do like the idea of flat pyramids on the tops of the posts. I'll give that and several of the other suggestions a try in the model and see how it looks.

Your question about securing the side and center boxes to the headboard and footboard are ones that I've been going over myself. My basic idea is using the extra pieces that you see on the back of the footboard. On those pieces I would put several holes, and thread bolts through the holes. The pieces then get glued and screwed to the headboard/footboard with the bolt heads in and the threads sticking out so it captures the bolts. Matching holes in the side boxes, a few washers and nuts and you are secured. The side boxes also have loose tenons that sit in the legs for additional support. Quick model of how the bolts will get captured is below.









All of the flat panels on this piece and the other two are going to be plywood. Was planning on fixing them in place so they should contribute to the structural strength of the piece. You have also hit on another part that I had some reservations about. If you look at the back of the side boxes, you'll notice two fairly thick vertical support pieces. If necessary, I could put an extra 2 "legs" under each of those two on each side to help support everything. 
I'm not opposed to the upholstered panels. I do think they add some interest, and I was concerned about the flat and relatively boring headboard. Is there a plywood backer behind them, and then they just get screwed into that from the back? 
Also, I must say I have no idea what you are talking about with your weapon's cache comment. The center compartment is completely inaccessible, no hidden panels in the footboard or anything. The drawers don't go all the way to the center just because that would make them really long. Don't know why anyone would ever want to hide things like that anyways.


----------



## DanKrager

LOL on the center storage, T! I'd put a trap door in the center so I could access it while I was hiding under the bed. Don't read too much into the "interesting". I like designing.

Since the panels will be secured in their frames, then no worries about extra legs. Yes, the upholstery is on a plywood panel that is screwed from the back to the backer panel that in turn is screwed securely to the frame.

Good luck!

DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Wuddup fellers. I'm done with the jewelry box madness. Next up I'm building a desk for my son. It will have a walnut live edge top and some simple features.



















"It feels so good to be feelin good again…."


----------



## bigblockyeti

Desk top looks great so far, a kids desk is on my to do list but I think I have a couple years before my oldest starts hitting the homework hard. Might need to fit in a new house before then, things are getting cozy!


----------



## jmartel

Whoa. Crazy tambour doors on a credenza.


__
http://instagr.am/p/BWOVc1mlcKR/

Complete with dude hiding (not very well) behind it operating it.


----------



## wormil

> Whoa. Crazy tambour doors on a credenza.
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BWOVc1mlcKR/
> 
> Complete with dude hiding (not very well) behind it operating it.
> 
> - jmartel


Saw that the other day, that's a sweet credenza. I'm assuming it's veneered.


----------



## TraylorPark

I too saw that tambour door credenza the other day and immediately started trying to figure out what it would take to make something like it. Checking on the maker's website it seems the horizontal tambour door is their specialty, and man can they do it well.


----------



## JADobson

Dang that is cool.


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah


----------



## BigRedKnothead

And So it has begun. Drawer box:










Top slab glued up.


----------



## CL810

Dan, is there going to be live edge on both sides of the desk? Looking forward to seeing how you mount the drawer.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Prolly live edge on both sides. I often design as I go;-)

I plan to attach that drawer box mostly to the leg…but I'll snug to the top too.


----------



## theoldfart

Half blinds for the first time in a project.


----------



## PPK

'bout time somebody makes some darn dovetails! Lol. That thing is beautiful!!


----------



## Hammerthumb

TOF - have you looked at any of the David Boeff videos? he has some nice videos that you might find useful.

Very nice!


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks guys.

Paul, just looked at his post on leg brackets. Those are next up after I get the drawers done. I'm leaving the shell carving for last!


----------



## bobasaurus

That desk is looking great, Red. The furniture you guys make is very high-level. I have a pair of 8/4 walnut slabs drying in the garage just waiting for me.


----------



## bk3132

I needed a new dining room table and decided to do a take on the famous "river table." But cutting curved glass seemed daunting, so I went with a rectangular glass runner. Two bookmatched walnut slabs. I made a conscious decision not to fill holes/cracks and used a pure tung oil cut with citrus solvent finish (like 7 coats). So far so good. A dab of tung oil brings back blemishes, but scratching is probably going to be an issue.

The base is natural steel that I finished. Nice guy on Etsy made it to spec.

Curious if you have any feedback or suggestions for the next time I undertake something like this. Thanks!



















The


----------



## PPK

Wow! I'll have to disclose that the modern "river" style isn't my taste, but that doesn't negate the fact that it looks very well done! Nice, dark slabs of Walnut. No suggestions from me, save keep on building!


----------



## builtinbkyn

*Kevin* looks like nice progress happening there - but slow :O Hurry up. We want to see the final product!

*BK* the table looks great. Soon I will be starting on a similar project. I'm up in the air on whether I'll be doing a river table with the book-matched slabs I have coming, or not. I'm more than willing to try the curved glass thing as long as I'm not cutting it


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff Kev.

I dig that table BK….big time. I nearly ordered some metal legs for the desk I'm building right now. But, I had some 2+" walnut shorts that fit the bill, and they didn't run me any more $.

Here's the DT's for those legs.


----------



## bearkatwood

Lookin' good Red. Hey old fart, very impressive work as well. I haven't been around here lately, busy with the big move to the new house and shop. Here is one of the first projects in the new shop, It is a set of cafe chairs and a table in zebrawood and walnut.


----------



## TheFridge

Kev, at least it's not taking as long as your workbench  carry on


----------



## theoldfart

^  just call me Methuselah!
And thanks for the compliments boys.


----------



## bk3132

> I dig that table BK….big time. I nearly ordered some metal legs for the desk I m building right now. But, I had some 2+" walnut shorts that fit the bill, and they didn t run me any more $.


Thanks for the kind words everyone. *builtinbkyn*, go for a river table! What I like most about it is that the design is still unknown enough that people often gasp when they see it.

*BigRedKnothead*, those are some nice joints and legs! I've gone with steel because (1) I like the look and (2) I'm not so good at legs/joinery. I'd love to learn make some progress on that some day!


----------



## TheFridge

Kev, what happened to the moxon


----------



## theoldfart

Fridge, it's fixed now. Not really a Moxon but rather a vise used by book binders. I use it as a moxon!


----------



## TraylorPark

Quick question for Brian. How did you get the curve in the back slat? Is it glue lam, steam bent, or cut from thick lumber? BTW love the zebra/walnut combo.


----------



## bearkatwood

Glue lam for those.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Weekend off. Some great progress on my son's desk.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Red, that third picture looks like it belongs in a LN catalog. Fifth picture looks amazing!


----------



## ColonelTravis

Red are those butterflies real ebony? I used ebony for the first time this weekend for new winding sticks and marveled at how silky smooth it is to plane. Even starting very rough, what a great wood to use.


----------



## bearkatwood

Fun project Red, looks nice.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks fellers.

Yep Colonel, real ebony from some cutoffs I bought awhile back. I enjoy working with it too.


----------



## wormil

That is some handsome woodworking Red.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Beautiful desk, Big Red One!


----------



## PPK

Is white oak particularly hard to plane, or am I just that bad at sharpening/planing technique? (totally opened myself up for an insult, but I can handle it ;-) I've tried my bevel up smoother with the throat closed, and my block plane, my scraper plane, it just wants to tear out no matter which direction I attack it. It's some really hard stuff that I think was used as trailer decking or something. It's pretty… but tough!


----------



## pintodeluxe

Pete,
I have not found a way to consistently hand plane quartersawn white oak without tearout. If it is rift saft, things go much better. Compared to cherry, walnut, or maple oak is still very dense and difficult to work by hand.

I was machine planing some QS white oak legs last night, and still can't get over what a nice job the Shelix head does. Highly figured, changing grain direction, no regard for the law, doesn't matter which way you send it through… just beautiful smooth grain as it should be.

Sorry I don't have a good solution for hand planing the stuff. I can get it to hand plane nicely 75% of the time, but the rest of the time it tears out like a bugger. Those are not good enough odds to play that game.


----------



## PPK

Hmmmm…. 
So then my choices are:
.








.
(^spiral cutter head model^)
or
. 








.
I think I'll have to go with the latter… being as I already own it… 
Otherwise I'll have to tell Dad that his trailer planks cost me $1800…

Thanks for the comment, Pinto.


----------



## TheFridge

Personally I don't like BU, especially on tearout prone stock. Gimme a chipbreaker any day.


----------



## DanKrager

Yes, I'm thinking high angle, very sharp blade, very small mouth and very sharp chip breaker set real close to cutting edge will get the job done with a hand plane. Strokes diagonal to grain maybe 30° may help. Some woods just take more practice than others….

DanK


----------



## wormil

> Is white oak particularly hard to plane,
> - PPK


Michael Pekovich works primarily in QS white oak, you might do a quick search for any articles he's written. The subject also comes up a lot on the FW podcast. I had tearout problems with a white oak vanity I built recently but I struggled through with a #4 because I didn't want to buy a new plane. I wanted to fill the pores anyways so it all worked out in the end.


----------



## PPK

Thanks for the tips. It's just a picture frame… But you know what? I've had the worst luck with picture frames. What would seem like a simple task never turns out that way for me when it comes to picture frames!


----------



## PPK

Hmm… well, thanks Fridge for the chip breaker tip - I pulled the old $15 4-1/2 Sargent off the shelf, and adjusted it for light cuts. Low and behold, I got rid of most of the chipout with this. I was only left with one particularly bad spot that I ended up grinding out with the sander…










Cheap but effective in this case ^









Expensive and not effective on swirled grain ^ I really like the heft of this thing though…


----------



## rad457

I have had the best luck with a Veritas 55 degree # 4,(PMV-11 Iron) any grain change areas touched up with a cabinet scrapper or just hand scrappers if area is small? 
Similar results found working with some Teak and a slab of Figured Walnut.
The Walnut was my excuse to get the high angle # 4!


----------



## theoldfart

Starting to get the feel of using a turning saw, so the band saw will now have a resew blade full time now.










The saw is a vintage Richardson Bros I found at a flea market.


----------



## JADobson

I love my turning saw. Mine is from the Gramercy kit and I built the frame. One of my favourite tools to use. Your curves look fantastic oldfart


----------



## theoldfart

Uh, I think it's ok to appreciate the compliment  so long as it's about the wood work!


----------



## builtinbkyn

> Uh, I think it s ok to appreciate the compliment  so long as it s about the wood work!
> 
> - theoldfart


LOL You're curves do look great Kevin. Oh nice work with that turning saw too


----------



## bearkatwood

We are always talking about how we love his legs, curves now too  You got it goin' on !


----------



## theoldfart

The front apron and sides are shaped, next up is to glue up the case and finish the drawers.


----------



## theoldfart

Getting there.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dang Kev, I dig it. I've never made a piece with details like that. I need to start branching out.

No regrets on the live edge style with my son's desk thus far. It's kind of liberating.










Only drawer fronts left to go. I'm sure Xmas gifts are on the list next.

Years back I said I wanted to make a sofa and love seat in the spirit of a morris chair - wood framed…prairie sofa…whatever you want to call it. Except I don't plan to make it mission style.

Leaning towards cherry, so I better start looking for deals. And, I'd better start shopping leather. Prolly gonna need 5-6 hides;-0


----------



## theoldfart

Red, it's turning into another one of my perpetual projects. I'm juggling moving along with thinning down my shop and trying to get this thing done.

Desk looks mighty fine.


----------



## bobasaurus

Old fart and Red, those are some amazing pieces. Red, I like the splayed legs.


----------



## CL810

^ Ditto +10


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks fellers. The original design had metal legs, but I'm really happy with the legs and the big fat dovetails.


----------



## ToddJB

Love it, Red. Top about 48 wide?


----------



## bearkatwood

I am working on a bunch of stuff, just finished a new workbench. Hoping to start on a canoe soon. Busy, busy.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Love it, Red. Top about 48 wide?
> 
> - ToddJB


Good guesstimate Todd. Right at 50" wide on the desktop. I wouldn't like the top to be longer and thicker, but sometimes you just gotta roll with what you've got. I even left some of the chainsaw cuts on the corners. I likes it.










I heart your new shop Brian.


----------



## bondogaposis

Nice work Red, love it.


----------



## DanKrager

Those are gonna be treasured heirlooms, Red and Kevin. The thought, design and craftsmanship will be held in high regard, perhaps more so than they are now!

DanK


----------



## ToddJB

Red, what made you go with metal slides on the desk? A fuller extension?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, what made you go with metal slides on the desk? A fuller extension?
> 
> - ToddJB


Yup. Full extension on a desk. And I just think they're better for heavy use situations imo. I make wood slides for nightstands and such. But like a dvd drawer… I go metal. I looked into those slow close buggers, but I didn't think the were the extra $ for a desk.

Actually, I got them on amazon. 5 pack for 30ish bucks. They're just as good as any I've gotten at home stores.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Whoa that's a nice deal on those slides. Good to know about them thanks.
Awesome desk. You are a fan of walnut, Red, are you able to find nice stuff locally?


----------



## TheFridge

I think he has a "guy". If you know what I mean.

Solid work gents. Carry on. And carry the torch for the other (me) lazy bastards out there.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Very soon I'll have some photos of a desk I've been working on. Lot of mistakes made, some cursing, some wood ruined and several do-overs. Never made a desk before. Not a big desk but it's furniture and qualifies for photos here.

Dumb question about finishing but I do not know the answer - this is a stand up desk, you can open the top. I love an oil finish but I do not want to have an oil smell every time you open the desk, so I thought shellac would be fine for the inside parts. If I do the outside finish with oil, does that have any affect on moisture equilibrium? Or is there any major disadvantage to using two kinds of finish on something?


----------



## DanKrager

Colonel, I think there will be no problems with two kinds of finish as long as you don't skimp on either. On solid lumber the goal is to keep water vapor entering and exiting ( can't be prevented, only slowed) at about the same rate on both sides of larger panels. 
There will be vapors trapped in a closed space from ANY finish, though I'll grant that shellac's alcohol solvent flashes faster than mineral spirits. Lacquer and acetone are the fastest to dissipate. So, whatever you use, it will be a good idea to keep the closed places open for as long as it takes…some finishes longer than others. No matter what, it will be many months before you can open a closed area with no strong finish odor. 
Good luck.
DanK


----------



## PPK

This may sound kind of wacky, but I wonder what would happen if a guy added some sort of "essential" oil into the finish. Of course it would have to be an oil-based finish to be compatible, such as tung/danish/BLO. Perhaps even poly. Could a guy add cedar oil and get that awesome cedar smell inside a chest without having cedar?? Or as the finish dries, maybe it would trap the smell into the finish and not work at all. Hmmm… Maybe I'll have to do a test on random box. I made a little essential oil holder deal for my aunt - she's into that stuff. That's what made me think of it.


----------



## jmartel

Might as well try it on some scrap and see what happens. More importantly, let it sit for a few weeks and see how well it's held up. My mom's into that type of stuff too.


----------



## DanKrager

The essential oil trick might just work. I suspect it might be like the real cedar…eventually the gassing of vapor is subdued by the oxidation that inevitably occurs. In the case of cedar, the scent can be renewed by a good sanding to remove the oxidation layer. The oil containing the trapped scent might be stirred around somehow to renew the scent. You might get tired of waiting… 

DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Whoa that s a nice deal on those slides. Good to know about them thanks.
> Awesome desk. You are a fan of walnut, Red, are you able to find nice stuff locally?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


No killer sources to speak of. However those slabs on my son's desktop and the nice pieces on my last big build (walnut turntable stand) were all from a neighbor down the street. He saw me working in my shop and showed me some walnut slabs he had milled up from a tree in his yard. I offered to buy them all. He thought about it for a couple weeks, then took me up on it. They're only about 5' long, but anywhere from 16-22" wide. I love living in Iowa.

For the finishes. In my ignorance in the past, I've finished the entire interior of drawers with oil based poly. Later I read that the drawers, and your clothes may smell for years. They're right. I switched to shellac (zinnser sealcoat) for all interior parts.

That's how this desk is finished. Every thing gets at least one coat of seal coat. Sand. Then everything gets oil based poly except the sides and interior of the drawers. Another advantage of this approach is that I can put all 2 to 3 coats of shellac on the drawers in a matter of a couple hours with dry times.


----------



## bearkatwood

More clamps! Dangit, I need more clamps!


----------



## DanKrager

That's just special, bearkatwood.
DanK


----------



## bearkatwood

Well I am a special kid


----------



## theoldfart

Brian, I do have a lot of clamps.









Top drawer is done, center and left drawer need a back and bottom, right drawer still needs Dt's









Progress is being made.


----------



## ColonelTravis

>


If you stop there, paint it metallic silver, add some metallic blue square and/or stripe accents and put some random powder burns and a couple gun barrels on the sides you could sell it on eBay as the life-sized prototype for a new battle droid in the upcoming Star Wars movie. I bet someone would pay you $50,000 for it. You could laugh all the way to the bank.

Until you got sued.

I guess leave it as it is. Anyway, you're doing an awesome job. Good luck with the final stretch.


----------



## PPK

Oldfart, is that camelia oil from Lie Nielsen you've got in the corner of that picture??^^ Does it work good? I've thought of getting some to rub on my planes since I don't use them that often…

And awesome bench, Brian… Is this one going to be thunder cloud and lightning themed? That'd be cool!! Or perhaps a Bison/wild west theme.. Ok, you probably don't need any more crappy design ideas from me.


----------



## theoldfart

PPK, yea. It was a freebie from a class at LN. There's also another one from Woodcraft. I've been using it for years with no problems. I spray a cloth and wipe down the tool rather than spray the tool it self.

ColonelT, I like that idea. Gives new meaning to Empire period pieces.


----------



## crmitchell

I really love the drop cloth - it really gives the shop a cheerful air !


----------



## crmitchell

BTW, I know its too late, but I tried a different approach for the corner blocks. Was worried about carving them after assembly and possibly messing something up. I dry assembled the case, glued the blocks on and disassembled the case. Then carved the blocks clamped between a 48" Bessy clamp held in the vise. Was able to use the oscillating sander (shhhh!) the fair the underside curve of the blocks. The blocks came out perfectly.


----------



## theoldfart

Good idea, maybe next time


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Bearkat is…special. Lawlz

Knocking out some tea trays next. Trying to spice it up with some houndstooth dovetails. Don't know about you guys but I have to use Japanese dozuki saws to good results on fine work like this.










They take a lot of delicate and focused chisel work. Do not attempt after beer-thirty;-)


----------



## DanKrager

"Beer Oh Five" might be too soon. Good luck!

DanK


----------



## PPK

^pishaw… I can do that while I'm sleeping (read: in my dreams)

Those'll look really nice when together!

Hmm, you know, I just thought of something - they make that plastic-y fake wood grain stuff they apply to particle board shelves; I wonder if they make fancy dovetail stickers I could stick over my butt joints?


----------



## ToddJB

Ha. That would be awesome, Pete. Pocket Screws with DT stickers


----------



## mramseyISU

Does anybody have a source for metal legs other than those stupid hairpin legs that rockler sells? I'm thinking more in line with some angle iron ones.


----------



## jwisbey

I have had good luck ordering metal legs from ETSY. There are several welders on there. Many do custom work. The two times I have ordered legs from there, I have been very happy with the price and the product.


----------



## bearkatwood

I am working on a bunch of goodies right now and I am trying to set this new shop up to have some people over for classes if the occasion presents itself. 









Even got one of those dry erase boards to make it look more class-roomy.









I have started making saws again (though I know those aren't pertinent to this forum "Furniture Making")









My wife and I will be included in a show in the Coos Bay Art Museum later this month. I will have a few seats there and she made a set of wooden luggage.


























Now I am trying to finish the cherry bench that goes to Nashville, then I have seven bar stools heading to Colorado that will be from curly maple. Life is good. And thanks Red for thinking I am special


----------



## jmartel

I hope no one tries to fly with that wooden luggage, Brian. Wouldn't want the baggage handlers tossing that stuff around.

I might be up in Coupeville the weekend after Thanksgiving to do some diving. If you're available, I'll buy you a beer.


----------



## PPK

> Does anybody have a source for metal legs other than those stupid hairpin legs that rockler sells? I m thinking more in line with some angle iron ones.
> 
> - mramseyISU


Have you considered making?

$100 harbor freight wire welder, $50 of angle iron… and an angle grinder with a cut off wheel, and you're ready to roll, right? I kind of enjoy welding. Just in case you hadn't thought of building, thought I'd mention it.


----------



## Reinan

Wow, you gentlemen are very talented! Just found this thread and I'm just getting started building up a space for wood working. I've made a few things in the past and really enjoyed the work. I have a few projects posted in my projects section, and another I am working on currently; a coffee table for my cousin as a wedding/housewarming present. Hopefully it will turn out as amazing and beautiful as the work I've seen posted here. Hope nobody minds a watcher gleaning what lessons I can from your work!


----------



## DanKrager

Welcome Reinan! This place is full of voyeurs. There is a camaraderie and willingness to share unlike any place else. Don't be shy about posting pictures. 
DanK


----------



## bearkatwood

Hi Reinan, 
Glad to have you join the conversation. Woodworking is a wonderful medium to express yourself in and it is a joy to learn even with all the frustrations you will encounter along the way. It is something you can never truly master, but the pursuit of perfection in your work will open your eyes to things around you that you hadn't noticed before. Pay attention to the little things and they will guide you, listen to your tools and be safe. Happy woodworking.


----------



## mramseyISU

> Does anybody have a source for metal legs other than those stupid hairpin legs that rockler sells? I m thinking more in line with some angle iron ones.
> 
> - mramseyISU
> 
> Have you considered making?
> 
> $100 harbor freight wire welder, $50 of angle iron… and an angle grinder with a cut off wheel, and you re ready to roll, right? I kind of enjoy welding. Just in case you hadn t thought of building, thought I d mention it.
> 
> - PPK


I had considered that, it's a problem of where to keep it. I actually was a certified welder during college so doing it wouldn't be a big deal.


----------



## jmartel

I was just in the store yesterday. They have some pretty small machines. Shouldn't be too difficult to find a place to keep.


----------



## PPK

Yep. Or, after you get done using it, you can just send it over my way… especially if its a nice Miller or something


----------



## Reinan

Thank for the warm welcome!

Made some major headway on the legs and aprons of the coffee table I mentioned. Got the legs tapered and the apron lap joints cut so they interlock on the leg mortise. Dry fit went well, some light touch up on a few parts may be necessary to allow room for glue, as some joints are pretty tight. Here's some progress pics and the final assembly in dry fit before glue and sanding.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Very nice Russ. The joints look solid.


----------



## theoldfart

I like the housed half lap joinery, pretty clever.

Welcome to the funny farm Russ! Looking forward to,the completed project. I mean someone has to complete something around here.


----------



## Hammerthumb

So I let my amateur radio license lapse in 2003. I had been inactive since 1997, and had unloaded all of my radio equipment. I was looking at a copy of my license on the wall in my home office one day, and decided to get my license back. After a few tests, and waiting on the FCC for a few weeks, I finally got my license back.
I went out and bought a few pieces of equipment, and strung up a wire antenna and was back on the air.









Although I was able to communicate with people around the world, the station left a lot to be desired. So I started to put together a piece of furniture to house the equipment. I searched my stash - enough Ipe to do it, but it's very heavy and not easy to move. Anyone that has had a ham station knows that re-arranging a station is common practice, so the Ipe is out.
I have a stash of curly maple I'm saving for a new chest and dresser for the bedroom, so what I came up with is the last of a stash of African monogamy. I bought about 2000 bf about 12 years ago and it looked like I had enough to do the new radio station furniture. This was the last of the stash and all of the good material had already been used up. All of the material was twisted, punky, warped, etc. This is perfect for a piece of utility furniture for a radio station.

I decided on a piece that is similar to a secratary, did a quick sketch and got started.









The wood fought me. But I whipped it into shape.


----------



## Hammerthumb

So after a couple of weeks in my spare time, I finally got this together.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I still have the 2 drawers to put together, and another computer and some other equipment to install, but at least I have something more comfortable to operate from. When I'm done with the drawers, I'll start on the chair so I can give my wife back her dining room chair.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Does anybody have a source for metal legs other than those stupid hairpin legs that rockler sells? I m thinking more in line with some angle iron ones.
> 
> - mramseyISU


I've heard good things about these folks. Prices seem reasonable to me: https://steeltablelegs.com/
- 
Bearkat, looks like you're living your dream. So happy for you brother. 
- 
Reinan, welcome…and that joinery looks bada$$

Paul….phone home;-P


----------



## Hammerthumb

Yeah Red. Was looking for ya out there, but you didn't answer.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Do you really hafta get your license renewed, isn't going on air without on kinda like driving 36 in a 35 mph zone?


----------



## bearkatwood

Loving the exposed joinery Russ and Paul I really like how the top tips out on that desk. Nice work guys. Red, "phone home" you're a hoot


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Brian.

This isn't CB Yeti. Jail time for operating without a license is much more serious than a speeding ticket. FCC is no one to be fooled with.


----------



## HerbC

> Does anybody have a source for metal legs other than those stupid hairpin legs that rockler sells? I m thinking more in line with some angle iron ones.
> 
> - mramseyISU


Try Leg-Rite by Log-Rite…


----------



## PPK

> Thank for the warm welcome!
> 
> Made some major headway on the legs and aprons of the coffee table I mentioned. Got the legs tapered and the apron lap joints cut so they interlock on the leg mortise. Dry fit went well, some light touch up on a few parts may be necessary to allow room for glue, as some joints are pretty tight. Here's some progress pics and the final assembly in dry fit before glue and sanding.
> 
> - Reinan


Great work! Is that walnut and Maple? I too really like the joinery!


----------



## PPK

> So I let my amateur radio license lapse in 2003. I had been inactive since 1997, and had unloaded all of my radio equipment. I was looking at a copy of my license on the wall in my home office one day, and decided to get my license back. After a few tests, and waiting on the FCC for a few weeks, I finally got my license back.
> I went out and bought a few pieces of equipment, and strung up a wire antenna and was back on the air.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although I was able to communicate with people around the world, the station left a lot to be desired. So I started to put together a piece of furniture to house the equipment. I searched my stash - enough Ipe to do it, but it's very heavy and not easy to move. Anyone that has had a ham station knows that re-arranging a station is common practice, so the Ipe is out.
> I have a stash of curly maple I'm saving for a new chest and dresser for the bedroom, so what I came up with is the last of a stash of African monogamy. I bought about 2000 bf about 12 years ago and it looked like I had enough to do the new radio station furniture. This was the last of the stash and all of the good material had already been used up. All of the material was twisted, punky, warped, etc. This is perfect for a piece of utility furniture for a radio station.
> 
> - Hammerthumb


Hammerthumb! You are a hammer in more ways than one! That's awesome! That was one of my passions when I was younger. I still have my radios packed away in a box, waiting for me to resurrect them. I always wanted to try DX'ing, as well as storm chasing. For some reason, my parents weren't keen on the storm chasing…

Great ham desk!

-Pete, KC0MSW


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Pete.
Get the equipment back out and string up an antenna!
I've always wondered how many hams there are on this forum - besides Red.

Paul, N6BQC


----------



## Reinan

Thanks all!

Like the desk Paul, what did you use for finishing? I really like the color you brought out of it.

That's correct Pete, it's maple and walnut. The maple I found in the back of the maple stacks at a local shop, it as quite a bit of curl to it, though somewhat irregular and not as clear as some. Probably why nobody else snagged it.

Here is a pic of the table top wiped with DNA to show it off. I'm still trying to flatten the panel enough to machine the tongues for attaching the breadboard ends. It cupped a little after glue up.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Very light stain, and a couple coats of waterbased poly. As I said, this was made from the dregs of a stash. It is utility furniture and was not really meant to be pretty, just functional.

Thanks for the kind comments


----------



## Reinan

After a few days of pondering how I am going to create the tongue on the ends of the 52" long table top to attach the breadboard ends I planned, on a top that cupped a little in glue. I ordered a pattern bit and am thinking I can clamp it flat and use a router to create the tongues. I made a test out of some very cupped pine today and was able to get an even depth cut all the way across. Hopefully, I can get everything to line up acceptably and make everything fit. I expect to have more work time later this week.


----------



## Reinan

Got one end machined and fitted, could be better I think, but I'm satisfied since this is the first time I have attempted breadboard ends. Lots of time tuning the fit with a chisel and a sanding block, more than I had anticipated. I still need to pull it off and drill and mark for the drawbore dowels, which I'm not looking forward to as it is a very tight fit.


----------



## PPK

Looks really sharp!! Good work. You probably know this like the back of your hand, but make sure to leave some room for expansion across the grain by using slotted holes except the center pin/dowel…


----------



## wormil

Good looking breadboard ends


----------



## ColonelTravis

Russ very nice job.


----------



## bearkatwood

Breadboard ends can be a pain and those look good. That grain is beautiful, nice work.


----------



## Reinan

Thanks guys, I'm really struggling to close the gap (~1/32 at the moment) on the second one, hopefully I can get it when I have fresh eyes. I'm sure it's something small that I haven't thought of yet.


----------



## theoldfart

A tale of two dovetails

The good









The bad and the ugly









Grasshopper, always make sure you trace the correct board! No matter how many times you cut the board it still come out too short.


----------



## ColonelTravis

I've had a bunch of ugly, sad face dovetails. I have screwed up royally even using David Barron's guide because with that you cut them a little differently. Still need to pay attention, which I'm great at not doing - pretty much an expert.


----------



## ColonelTravis

My first furniture attempt: stand up desk. Design is from Jim Toplin (one of the By Hand & Eye guys). Everything is mesquite, except for the little decorative corbel/bracket things that go between the legs and apron, which are cherry. I'd say about 80% hand tool build, 20% power tool. Most power tool stuff is ripping boards. I won't do that by hand but I dimension everything by hand. The desk part will be a sloped top box. Box will be dovetailed by hand - and if I end up with some ugly, sad face dovetail mistakes I am royally screwed because I don't have a backup supply of wood for that. Haven't decided if I want to have pull-out shelves on the side of the box, but I think I'll probably do that.

Base is coming together:










Beads around all the aprons. One side apron has some neat stuff going on










I emailed Jim Toplin about his bracket before his desk build was published in PW. He said he banged the end of an allen wrench to get some texture. I could not get the same effect with any allen wrench of mine, they're all bent, and that bend absorbed the energy from a hammer. Couldn't get an impression in the wood unless I beat the hell out of it and that didn't work. So I used a star-shaped screwdriver, which was easier.










And my anal retentive self just noticed I need to add a few more stars on the side of this one. That will bug me. Will fix immediately.


----------



## rad457

I believe that type of driver is called Torx?
You could just grind of the end of the allen wrench?


----------



## bobasaurus

That's a neat technique for texturing wood, I like it.

Brian, your back-less stool is my favorite (though the rest of your work is great too). Love the curved rails.


----------



## ColonelTravis

I'm a lazy man, Andre! Don't want to cut or grind anything metal unless I'm forced to do it.


----------



## DanKrager

CT, don't you have any hex bit drivers? Sharpen the hex end. Phillips screwdrivers? Hex bit Allen drivers? Lot's of choices. Interesting decoration options. Me? I'm carving acanthus leaves…

DanK


----------



## bearkatwood

That's clever.


----------



## theoldfart

Brian, nice scraper plug in PW. Congrats.

Dan, did you buy her book?


----------



## DanKrager

Why, yes I did. And you? I've always been fascinated by Acanthus leaves, so to have more intimate understanding of their history and evolution feels good to me. I'm in the process of redesigning my carving stand to make it adjustable height so I can stand or sit at will to an articulated top, perhaps even with interchangeable holding capacities.

It's a good read. I like her personal stories.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

I plan to get it after we move. Keep the "reviews" of it coming.


----------



## DanKrager

It's also neat that she shares how she learn things and even at her level of expertise realizes there are still new tricks to learn. She was writing a book about carving and attended a carving class (!) where she learned more about drawing. She tells of going home to redo her work on the book and found that her drawings, done by hand and eye, were dead on. So it was of little value to her skills, but she found it supremely useful in teaching others how to draw and develop quickly the eye that has taken her years to achieve. 
Nice pictures and logical sequence. Very inspiring.

DanK


----------



## bearkatwood

I was super thrilled when they called me and asked to do a review. I think it turned out well, though the "street price" comment had my family laughing and it sounded like a back alley drug deal thing. I just ordered a new burnisher as I was having trouble with the new batch of scrapers I had made. The new steel is super strong and was scratching up my Hock burnisher so I ordered a solid carbide rod and I am not going back. It turned a hook like it the scraper was made of butter and it made such perfect shavings. I highly recommend a solid carbide rod even if you are using a stainless scraper. 








instagram pic


----------



## PPK

Awesome work, Col Trav….

I used to do a lot of leather carving, and you using the torx screwdriver to make the pattern reminds me of how I use a "backgrounding" tool. It "stippled" the leather just like you are doing to make it look like it has more depth.

I know this would require buying a tool, but just in case you wanted future ideas… And what you did looks good!


----------



## bearkatwood

That looks like it would be worth the purchase.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Awesome Brian. 
Yeah. Street price. No wonder I got a visit from the FBI a few hours after your scraper arrived.

Couple years ago I got a carbide rod, agree with you, works great. And you need that with your scraper because it's hard, good quality steel.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Oh man - Pete, mine looks like a 1st grade My First Wood Project compared to that carving. Great suggestion, thanks. I'll look into more of that sort of thing because I never would have thought about adding texture on my own, and this has opened my brain to new ways of thinking.


----------



## PPK

hah! I just remembered the number of that tool. A104 is the small one. The larger one is A114. I think for woodworking purposes, the A114 would be more useful… And Don't worry, those aren't my carvings. I don't think I even have pictures of my carvings from my 4-H days.

https://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_19?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=tandy+leather+background+tool&sprefix=tandy+leather+backg%2Caps%2C178&crid=J2K2AXTHIBYW


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff fellers. I knew Bearkat would famous one day

You guys might get a kick out of this use of the venerable leg vise. How does a guy plane the DT sides of serving/tea trays after glue up?

The scrap blocks are held with carpet tape. 









Clamped by the bottom. Worked like a charm. 









If my God-mothers are watching this forum…sorry I spoiled your Xmas gift;-P


----------



## bearkatwood

Thanks Red, but not famous by a long shot. I did get recognized in my local grocery store once by some people traveling through though if that counts for anything. I am just another goofball with a chisel, a camcorder and a youtube account. The tools are doing well though. Can't complain there. Nice gift Red, I am sure they will love it.


----------



## theoldfart

Good thinking Red, gonna steal it!


----------



## ColonelTravis

Question about attaching trim molding on furniture: I got some fine cut headless brads from Tremont. Do you hammer them in and leave them exposed or do you bang them in with, say, a nail punch a little under the surface and cover them up with some sort of filler?


----------



## Reinan

Got the breadboard ends drilled and the drawbore dowels installed. Was waiting on a better brad-point in 3/8 because my old one was way past dead and a cheapie to boot. Got a Fisch bit from Amazon because I wanted it fast, but the messed up shipping meant I could have ordered the one from lee valley I really wanted… oh well, it drilled clean and straight. My uncle made the dowels for me from the same maple that made the aprons, on his lathe. He is a gunsmith and machinist by trade and you could really tell when I picked up the dowel blanks, they were .379 on my calipers! Worked perfectly with the square head left from where he chucked them, plenty of surface to hammer on.


----------



## DanKrager

CT, if the furniture and wood warrant it, you can do like the old timers. Take a 1/16" chisel (or I prefer a 3mm #7 gouge if using this type of tool) and pull up a splinter where you want to drive the nail. Wet it if necessary to get it to curl up without breaking the grain just enough to drive the nail, then glue the chip back down. It becomes invisible enough that only you and a few special people with metal detectors will find them again. Hide glue works the best because it doesn't stain the wood leaving a tell tale line.

One of the modern mfr (LV


> or Veritas


) made a tool that resembled a tiny hand plane with a small gouge in it for this purpose. Now discontinued. Even more rare now are the vintage ones.

That's what I would do and have done.

DanK


----------



## ColonelTravis

Dan, thanks. I've got a tiny gouge and will try that technique.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Huh. Never tried Dan's nail technique. I've got a bunch of colors of minwax wax pens I use to hide nail heads.


----------



## PPK

> CT, if the furniture and wood warrant it, you can do like the old timers. Take a 1/16" chisel (or I prefer a 3mm #7 gouge if using this type of tool) and pull up a splinter where you want to drive the nail. Wet it if necessary to get it to curl up without breaking the grain just enough to drive the nail, then glue the chip back down. It becomes invisible enough that only you and a few special people with metal detectors will find them again. Hide glue works the best because it doesn t stain the wood leaving a tell tale line.
> 
> One of the modern mfr (LV
> 
> 
> 
> or Veritas
> 
> 
> 
> ) made a tool that resembled a tiny hand plane with a small gouge in it for this purpose. Now discontinued. Even more rare now are the vintage ones.
> 
> That s what I would do and have done.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager
Click to expand...

Cool! I never knew this. Dan, you're the man!


----------



## PPK

Nice work on that table, Russ! 
Great trays, Red!

I've been making doors, and working on all sorts of different things in the shop this long weekend. I've got a big (for me) project, building cabinets for another parish North of where I live. It's About 18 LF of cabinets to build.

Face frames and Shelves
.








.
Carcass parts and doors in the background. All of them are sitting on the countertop and backsplash that are ready for stain/finish. I'm kind of out of sequence on things, since some of my material got delayed, and I didn't want to waste time. 
.








.
Door parts milled
.








.

Now that I finally have a drill press, I made myself a shelf hole jig… It works slick as snot!! I kind of copied one that Kiefer? built. 
.








.
Close up of the pin that indexes it.
.








.
And using it with a carcass part.
.









I tape off the holes I don't want to use, so that I don't accidentally get carried away with my hole drilling fun


----------



## Reinan

Finished the machine work and sanding today, added a 1/8" round over to the top edges and the outside corner of each leg. Then I sanded everything out to 400 grit before wiping it down with BLO. After a day or two for the BLO to dry I plan to put on a couple coats of 1# garnet shellac to add some more depth and a common hue to both Woods. When I get the color where I want it I am going to have a buddy that has a spray booth shoot it with nitro lacquer to give it some decent protection. Hopefully I can get it delivered to my cousin and his bride before Christmas, it's a little late as a housewarming/wedding gift, but better late than never!


----------



## ColonelTravis

You have passed your breadboard exam, sir.
Table is awesome.


----------



## TheFridge

Ditto.

PPK. Blind nailer I believe it's called.


----------



## bearkatwood

Passed with flying colors. That is a beautiful table. The visible joinery on the legs goes well with the breadboard tenon.


----------



## DanKrager

You're right, Fridge. Blind nailer.

DanK


----------



## Reinan

Thanks guys, I'm pretty stoked with how well it's turned out, it fit my vision perfectly.

That blind nailer looks interesting, could come in handy with fine cabinetry. Thanks for posting that, probably cost me some money in the future, lol!


----------



## PPK

Btw, Russ, that's a really nice lookin 'Stang you've got too… Is it a project car, or running?


----------



## DanKrager

Russ, unless you want it for a collection, a bare gouge in your hand is handier than the blind nailer thingy. It's REAL fussy to fettle correctly, IMHO.

DanK


----------



## Reinan

> Btw, Russ, that s a really nice lookin Stang you ve got too… Is it a project car, or running?
> 
> - PPK


Thanks, 'Stang runs and drives, it's actually for sale. They are both my wife's cars and I made her a deal: I'd fix the mustang again so she could sell it, but I won't do the trans on the Camaro until the mustang is out of my shop. The mustang is a '66, 200 I6 with a 3spd, pony interior, and I just upgraded the brakes to a '67 master cylinder and changed all the wheel cylinders. No more single pot brake res…


----------



## Reinan

> Russ, unless you want it for a collection, a bare gouge in your hand is handier than the blind nailer thingy. It s REAL fussy to fettle correctly, IMHO.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Not a tool collector here, I'll have to try the method on scrap and see if I can do it. I'm waiting to see the lee valley cyber Monday sale, hopefully I don't go broke…


----------



## bigblockyeti

That table looks great! I got a good deal on some curly maple that I was going to cut up for picture frames but I think I have a better idea for it now.


----------



## ColonelTravis

This is a small thing but it bothers me. Laying out leg mortises I took into account that there would be corbel/brackets underneath the apron. What I didn't take into account was the bead on the apron. Now the brackets stick out. I wanted them fully under the bead. If there had been no bead the brackets would have been flush with the apron, which is also what I did not want but it wouldn't have bugged me as much as this. I wanted the brackets inset a little bit.










When you're doing this sort of thing, would it be better to layout the apron mortises first, chop them, fit the aprons and then go back and layout the bracket mortises? I did the layout and chopping at the same time for both, that's how it was done from the PW article I was following. Actually, it's one really long mortise but the part for the bracket is more shallow than the apron tenons. Brackets have stub tenons, aprons have longer tenons.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Used a block plane to put a small chamfer on the top of the bracket so it looks a little better to the eye. But it's still something I want to not do in the future.


----------



## bearkatwood

Just had a customer sign off on a design for some stools and I am excited to put these together. I have been so busy moving and getting the shop together that I have't done much furniture making. So I am excited about these. Hope they turn out well  They will be curly maple and walnut.









Have a great day everyone!


----------



## pintodeluxe

Colonel Travis,

That's a bummer. I usually mount inside corbels with a biscuit in the leg. Then one dowel between the apron and corbel. They hold up really well, and it's easy to mount them after the frame is assembled.

In your instance, can you shave off the back edge of the tenon on the corbel? Then glue a shim on the front of the corbel tenon to offset it?


----------



## Reinan

Bearkat: that's a nice design, I'm pretty partial to curly maple and black walnut paired, pleasing to the eye.

Colonel: I see the frustration with the way the corbel lines up, perhaps a similar round over on the top edge to make it appear more intentional?


----------



## bondogaposis

Brian, if those stools turns out as nice as the sketch, you will have a happy customer.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Colonel. I had the same idea Pinto had. I've offset a tenon after the fact a time or two.

Looks fun Brian. You're such a pimp. Even saw your scrapers on Craftsmanstudio.com

Furniture on hold for awhile. I bought a big lot of engineered oak flooring for about $1.25 sq ft on black Friday. Oh Lawdy…what have I gotten myself into?









Well, I feel another banister coming on. The golden 90's oak just won't look right with that flooring.


----------



## PPK

Fantastic chair conceptual, Brian…. I like it


----------



## ColonelTravis

Pinto, der duh. Yeah I can do that. Easy fix. 
Why I didn't think of that? Oh yeah, I'm a moron!
Thanks.

Again, I'm following plans from PWW. And now I know why they are mortised vs. a dowel/biscuit or any other method. He didn't use any glue for anything. The build was for hand tools and intended to show how strong certain joints and techniques can be. That's why he's got stub tenons along two sides of a corbel, so you can jam them in tight and they won't come out. I'm gluing everything, I don't trust myself for non-glued furniture.

I have to build one of theses desks again and I'm gonna come up with another way to put them in. I like the little dowel idea. A mortise clearly is not necessary but I didn't think ahead.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Red, my wife and I did hardwood floors in 4 rooms ourselves. Saved some $, destroyed plenty of knee cartilage. Have fun!

Brian - congrats on the chairs, good luck.


----------



## bearkatwood

I milled up the material for the backs and cut the angles needed.
Then glued the offcuts back on to the miters for clamping.









This is not the correct way to use a tenon jig, but it worked 









The arms and backs all slotted









Time to glue them together.









Plus I made a saw today.. Busy day.









Thanks guys for the kind words, I hope they turn out nice.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Colonel. That's just the ropes when you're teaching yourself by building from plans. Plans give you a chance to try a joint/build in different ways. You'll find the ways you like.

Nowadays IF I build something from a plan, I just use their dimensions or ideas. I do the joinery however I want.


----------



## bearkatwood

I can't think of anything I ever built from a plan, I wish I had learned that way. I might be more inclined to have a sense of propriety, but I don't I wing it every time and so far I haven't had to throw too many out. This one was a month or so being built in my mind before I started as I was working on other things, so in a way there is a plan per say, just not on paper.
Agreed Red, sometimes the plans call for joinery that is just not right. 
Now for a rant. I saw a picture on instagram yesterday of someone building a work bench. They had nice 4" beefy legs and they were using a @#$%# Domino to do the joinery. I don't want to drag this nice PG forum down to my level with my thoughts on this, but suffice it to say I am not impressed with the dumbing down of woodworkers by the joinery systems available. If you can't make a mortise and tenon or know when to use one, you should not own a domino or any other tenon system for that matter. Learn to do it by hand and then use those tools to do the joinery correctly. Rant done!
 Happy face


----------



## ColonelTravis

I am definitely a "plans" guy when trying to produce something complex (somewhat) for the first time. Actually, I think a better way of saying it is that I'm a mimic, because it doesn't even have to be furniture. Initially, I follow someone else's lead because I have no clue what I'm getting into. Once I become comfortable with it, I ditch the original source and do my own thing. With this stand-up desk, I scaled it to my liking. Magazine had a cutlist, which was helpful, but I couldn't follow it to the letter.

What I'm making is not hard as far as skills go. But I've never put together a whole bunch of skills to make something that is supposed to look a lot better than garage furniture. And you have to think down the road with some things. It's not like 3D chess but you have to put some thought into it. Even with all the screwups I've said to myself - now how could I avoid doing this, or make it better, with other furniture?

Reading this forum and looking at what everyone's made and asking a few questions have been very helpful. Appreciate everyone's input.


----------



## bearkatwood

That makes complete sense Colonel. Unfortunately in these days an apprenticeship as a cabinet maker is not a thing to be found, so it is by following others and imitation that we can grow our skills. Much like chess we need to think at least a few moves ahead and it is best if you can see the game played out in its entirety. This does not mean you will avoid mistakes, as humans we can't. But we can always strive to do it a little better than we did last time. Forums like this are very helpful in relaying information, tips and kudos that I feel promote better craftsmanship and help you not be content with your work. Contentment in craft will never see you grow. Keep going! Keep pushing. Thank you for your posts.


----------



## bondogaposis

It has taken me long enough but I finally finished up the Onken chair I started many months ago. I got it back from the upholstery shop yesterday. Looking forward to watching a football game from this chair soon.


----------



## pintodeluxe

Ooooh Bondo… That chair looks NICE. 
The fabric choice works well with the wood tone too.


----------



## bearkatwood

Very nice work, I like the rays on the front leg and the finish looks great. That color of fabric compliments it nicely as well, looks rich. Amazing work!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice work Bondo!


----------



## JayT

Well done, bondo! Not my style, but I can still appreciate the craftsmanship.


----------



## wormil

That is a handsome chair.


----------



## DanKrager

+1 ^ That.

DanK


----------



## CL810

Masterful Bondo! Fine workmanship shines.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Man that is a nice chair. Enjoy the heck out of sitting in that thing.


----------



## Just_Iain

Bondo, your significant other better get a copy of that chair or else someone will be in the doghouse!!! It does look comfortable.


----------



## Reinan

Beautiful work Bondo, that is a very nice chair. Hope my wife isn't watching, cause I know what I'll be commissioned to build for her, after all the other things of course.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^Ha, that's why I had to build that Onken chair last year. My wife stole the first Morris chair.

What was the holdup Bondo? Mine only took a week;-P Looks great. I think I like the upholstery more than my leather.

Agree with the rant Brian, but I live my domino. Would never use it for a bench though. At least I made a M&T five different ways before I got one;-)


----------



## bearkatwood

I did a bunch of milling today for the stool parts.









I got rid of my planer a few years back and really haven't missed it too much. If you are somewhat decent at resawing you can just run it through the sander to thickness it and it works fine. There are a few times I would like to have one and I plan to get a new one sometime, but I can get by without just fine.


















I am glad to have this kiss plate that I glued on the front of the multi router, it makes set up a breeze.
Also the fence system I made from some jig parts and MDF is magical 









That is enough for one day. These are the top stretchers for the stool bases.









I really like the contrast of walnut and maple, I think these stools are going to look sharp.










Oh and I got a set of saws out today as well.









Curly Walnut dovetail saw and a Rosewood Carcass saw heading to Texas.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Curly Walnut dovetail saw and a Rosewood Carcass saw heading to Texas.


Please be me. Didn't order them but it would be awesome if I entered some sort of Bearkat Sweepstakes I forgot about. Gonna go out on a limb and guess that did not happen.

Brian - you've got a great setup there, my friend. Charles Neil in one of his videos said one of the best machines he ever bought was a large drum sander. I'm sure he's got a planer but in all the stuff I've watched of his I've only seen the sander. I'd never considered that as a replacement for a planer until he said it, and you've confirmed it.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Brian, do you buy your lumber surfaced? I can't imagine living without a lunchbox planer.


----------



## bearkatwood

No way, I'm not rich  In the rough is the only way to go, but I do from time to time if I see character in the wood that I just have to have. With the tiger maple it was skip planed so it wasn't too bad.


----------



## TheFridge

Is that a drum sander of sorts?


----------



## Reinan

Just picked up the coffee table from the guy that did the spray lacquer for me, turned out beautifully.


----------



## TheFridge

For my sons kindergarten teacher. For teachers appreciation day. To be honest, she deserves an armoire or some far larger but I don't have time. Bless her heart though for dealing with my son.


----------



## Handtooler

Fabulous! Very nice craftsmanship, and finish.


----------



## PPK

Some really great work going on!!

FYI: how I've kept my morris chair all to myself: I'm a whole head taller than my wife, and made my chair deep enough that it's very comfortable to me, and not to her  I hope to make a shorter /shallower one for her someday in the future.

Brian, I'm with ya in the anti-biscuit machine rant  But that's probably just 'cause I can't justify crazy money to buy one, and I've never actually tried one and got a taste of the biscuit-nicotine… heh heh


----------



## PPK

Edit: I meant domino, not biscuit.

I HAVE used biscuits a couple times, and am not much of a fan of those either. They're ok for helping get stuff lined up well, but even that is easier for me with a few clamps and cauls…


----------



## bearkatwood

Russ, the table looks great. Very nice job and fridge I love the top of that box, some very interesting shapes. 
On my rant, I know I went off a bit and the domino is a great very useful tool. It just irks me that people rely on it to make things they probably should not be making. I have seen chairs made completely with domino joinery which drives me nutz. It shouldn't be the fix all for making things. It is just another tool to add to the arsenal and used when needed. 
Wow Fridge, I keep going back up to look at the box and I am just enamored with that top. Very cool
Have a nice weekend ya'all.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks man. For some reason it reminds me of the head of the king from Alice in wonderland.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> No way, I m not rich  In the rough is the only way to go, but I do from time to time if I see character in the wood that I just have to have. With the tiger maple it was skip planed so it wasn t too bad.
> 
> - bearkatwood


That's what I was getting at. I've never heard of surfacing your rough lumber with a drum sander.


----------



## bearkatwood

If I have a log or really rough lumber I am working with I will joint it if possible and then resaw as close to the final dimension as I can and then a few passes on the thickness sander. The supermax has 36 grit you can get that can remove quite a bit of wood with one pass. and then changing out grits is a snap to get a smooth finish.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Interesting Brian. I have a baby drum sander. It's not much good for anything but sanding small parts.

My first project post in a long time: 
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/350922

And Blog entry: 
http://www.westfallwoodcraft.com/2017/12/dawsons-live-edge-desk.html


----------



## bearkatwood

A decent drum or large belt sander can be a game changer.


----------



## johnstoneb

Since I got a drum sander I am using the planer a lot less. Coming out of resaw it's into the sander. I'm running 120 grit one or two passes and good to go.


----------



## bearkatwood

I was really surprised to get rid of my planer, especially when I use rough wood. I got lumber from the beach and milled it on the bandsaw and went right to the sander, never even touched the jointer. That is one thing I have noticed with my sander as well. You can take a board with some wiggles in it and if you alternate the face that is sanded, in about four passes you have a straight board. i should do a video on it or something if I ever had time.


----------



## bearkatwood

Here is the update on the stools. They are free-ish standing. I need to get the front and back stretchers fit, then I will shape everything and glue em up. The supports holding up the back rest are just props and will be walnut.



























Lots of parts with more to come. Happy woodworking ya'all.


----------



## bearkatwood

I have the back stretchers and foot rests in and everything is cut to shape. Next there will be some routing and shaping then I will glue these up. They get a 3/4 walnut board on top to hold the swivel.





































I hope everyone is well and enjoying your day. Take care. TTFN


----------



## DanKrager

Never mind how long it took to make all those lovely parts….how long did it take to get the shop sparkly clean like that? 
DanK


----------



## Hammerthumb

Brian has a team of minihunees to do that work for him.

My 3 year old grandson can't keep up with the shavings off the lathe.

Good inexpensive help is hard to find!


----------



## bearkatwood

My wife was kind enough to clean it all up yesterday and it looked really nice for about an hour.


----------



## Hammerthumb

That's nice Brian. If I handed my wife a broom in my shop, it would require a trip to the doctor for extraction.


----------



## bearkatwood

Well my wife actually works out there from time to time on her own projects and occasionally helps with mine. I was very thankful for the clean up, it is nice to see the floor once in a while.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Brian looks great. Wish I had your proficiency. And your floor. And a helper to clean my floor.

Today I was making good progress on my desk then I drilled the drawbore holes in one leg in the wrong side of the leg. I got mad for a little bit, but it was a rear leg so I got a plug cutter and put some plugs in with hide glue and I think it will be fine because it will be against the wall, who cares. Lesson learned.

Oh and guess what?

Then I drilled two more drawbore holes in the wrong place on a front leg.

Lesson not learned!

I'd done six other sets of drawbore holes just fine. Fortunately, when I made the leg mortises, I left about 1.5 inches extra on the leg so I didn't blow out the end of a mortise (for a haunch tenon), then when the mortise is done you saw off the extra 1.5 inches. So my plugs were as close to a match as you could get. I think I lined up the grain well enough, I am crossing my fingers it will be hard to tell. I'll find out tomorrow when the glue dries.

Just curious - Let's say you all were making this for someone else and messed up identically like me, would you attempt a plug and see what happens or would you just chuck it and do another leg?


----------



## DanKrager

Tough question CT. I tend towards perfection, so it would be hard to let the front one pass, easier for the back one. The back one says "nobody's perfect". The front one says, "craftsman too lazy to fix his mistake correctly", which in this case means replacement, or at least a clean scarf. To decide for yourself, it helps to put some MS or alcohol on the area to see what it looks like under finish. If a third party can't see it under the flash, then let it pass and keep your mouth shut!

DanK


----------



## PPK

Mr. Chairman of the Board, you sir (Brian) make some amazing chairs!

The neighbor down the road a few miles asked me if I knew how to build chairs. (who would say no?? I mean this carpenter has his pride) So of course I said yes and added her to my backlog and have been watching other chair builds intently


----------



## bearkatwood

Thanks Pete, very kind.
CT my answer is in ""Mark Loves "Risk"":marklovefurniture.com/risk.pdf


















Have a great day everyone. Keep pushing to be better than you were.
"Mark Loves "RISK"":http://marklovefurniture.com/risk.pdf

Here is a link to it if you can't read that tiny print. I had trouble getting it to paste the text in here. It explores what it is to be a woodworker in search of perfection and having the possibility there that you might not get it right all the time. There is no right way, only your way. Make the lines of your work true to you and they will be done right. Just work safely. There is nothing new under the sun, so you are not going to make something truly original, but you can make your interpretation of an idea that will be yours alone. No one else on this planet will do it like you. And you won't ever make it perfect, but you can sure as heck try.


----------



## Reinan

> Brian looks great. Wish I had your proficiency. And your floor. And a helper to clean my floor.
> 
> Today I was making good progress on my desk then I drilled the drawbore holes in one leg in the wrong side of the leg. I got mad for a little bit, but it was a rear leg so I got a plug cutter and put some plugs in with hide glue and I think it will be fine because it will be against the wall, who cares. Lesson learned.
> 
> Oh and guess what?
> 
> Then I drilled two more drawbore holes in the wrong place on a front leg.
> 
> Lesson not learned!
> 
> I d done six other sets of drawbore holes just fine. Fortunately, when I made the leg mortises, I left about 1.5 inches extra on the leg so I didn t blow out the end of a mortise (for a haunch tenon), then when the mortise is done you saw off the extra 1.5 inches. So my plugs were as close to a match as you could get. I think I lined up the grain well enough, I am crossing my fingers it will be hard to tell. I ll find out tomorrow when the glue dries.
> 
> Just curious - Let s say you all were making this for someone else and messed up identically like me, would you attempt a plug and see what happens or would you just chuck it and do another leg?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


While I also tend to seek perfection, sometime small accidents can be utilized. I'm assuming the drawbore is blind and not intended to go all the way through, and that the two oops are uniform in placement. If that were the case, I might be tempted if the design allows, to make them through holes and use a complimentary wood to draw attention to the mistake and make it a featured detail. However, if the original holes are not intended to be seen, you could plug the hidden ones and make the more visible accidents a feature in a similar way. If that doesn't appeal to your vision or work with the design, then I would opt for fashioning a replacement for the front leg but likely not the rear of the plug is decently hidden.

Just my thoughts… and I'm pretty new to this, so they might be totally off point.


----------



## PPK

Huh. That's an interesting read. I can relate to a little of it - I JUST finished applying for a contractor license, as well as some liability insurance in which I was forced to classify myself also under the "furniture manufacturing" category… I balked at it a little 

And ColonelT, I guess MY line of thinking on those chair legs would be this: if it's for myself, I'd let it slide (plug the mistakes) and move on. It it's for a client, I'd be starting over. The set of dining chairs I built have some filled holes left from the template routing and lack of good planning on my part. I notice them and it reminds me to work harder and strive to get better at planning and executing my work.


----------



## bearkatwood

For what reason did you need a contractors license to make furniture? Just curious. I like you note about better planner and execution. The planning is the tough one and order of operations.


----------



## PPK

In ND, if your contract with the client is over $4000, you're required to hold a contractor license and have some liability insurance. The license doesn't application doesn't have any test or anything attached, it's pretty much you apply and you get it. It is what it is, I guess…


----------



## Knockonit

> For what reason did you need a contractors license to make furniture? Just curious. I like you note about better planner and execution. The planning is the tough one and order of operations.
> 
> - bearkatwood


I suspect its a contractors lis. to manufacture, 
In Arizona, they squeeze every ducat they can out of you for lis. fees, bonds, ect. and of course liab. and work comp insurance. 
sometimes i think i'm only in biz to pay insurance companies and the govenors wage


----------



## ColonelTravis

Great input, thanks. I liked the Risk read a lot.

Going to find another front leg. Can live with the back one, not the front one. Plugs came out OK but not good enough. If this were for someone else I'd re-do both, but I'll keep the back one as a reminder to always try to think better.


----------



## Reinan

Only loosely related to furniture, but my latest project is a large lazy Susan for my mom for Christmas. Mostly walnut with some cherry to break up the panel, base is cherry. It was interesting cutting a circle on a table saw, as I don't have a bandsaw and a table saw jig seemed easier to make than a router jig. I profiled the bottom edge of the top with a 5/8 roundover and added a 1/8 beaded roundover to the top edge.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Base for my stand up desk is pretty much done. Won't be able to get back to this project until the new year, which stinks.


----------



## TheFridge

Keep up the good work men. Carry on.


----------



## jmartel

Finally I'll be able to participate in here again. Gotta build a bathroom vanity to match my night stands.










Actual color will be more of a lighter greyer color, like my nightstands.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Nice JMizzle. Gonna have one of those fancy bowl/sinks that rests on top?

Good stuff Reinan. Some nice contrasts there.

Sorry for the heartache Travis. We learns so much about ourselves with this craft though.

I'm milling up some shizzle for a banister. More to follow.


----------



## jmartel

Yeah, vessel sink on top. Will have one full width drawer with a cut out in the center for the drain. I'm putting the wife on tile duty while I build that.


----------



## PPK

Letter buck, JMart!










I've been making some phenomenal handcut dovetails… I have to use my hands to hold the router, you know??

I've got a cabinet project that's nearing completion. Just have to sand a bit and apply finish.


----------



## johnstoneb

That PC jig is hard to beat when you have to make a lot of dovetails.


----------



## jar944

The wife wanted a table (that could seat 12) so I knocked this out over the last couple weeks. The top is sapele dyed with brown mahogany trans-tint. Topcoat is lenmar ultralaq precat lacquer.

It's 42"x120" and finished out at 1.300" thick. The base is all poplar. Aprons are 1.25"x4" with a 12mm bead. It's all domino joinery 12×100 for the leg to apron and 8×35 for the three apron Center stretchers.
































































I ended up making a jig to make all the 48" curved cauls for the final glueups.


----------



## AlmostRetired

Great explanation.

Roger


----------



## ColonelTravis

Merry Christmas everyone, thanks to all for inspiring me with your creations.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Wonderful Build jar944.

MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL YE FURNITURE MAKERS!!!

"Fragile finger sent to heal us 
Tender brow prepared for thorn
Tiny heart whose blood will save us
Unto us is born, unto us is born…

So wrap our injured flesh around You
Breathe our air and walk our sod
Rob our sins and make us holy
Perfect Son of God, Perfect Son of God…
Welcome to our world"

-Chris Rice


----------



## PPK

> Wonderful Build jar944.
> 
> MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL YE FURNITURE MAKERS!!!
> 
> "Fragile finger sent to heal us
> Tender brow prepared for thorn
> Tiny heart whose blood will save us
> Unto us is born, unto us is born…
> 
> So wrap our injured flesh around You
> Breathe our air and walk our sod
> Rob our sins and make us holy
> Perfect Son of God, Perfect Son of God…
> Welcome to our world"
> 
> -Chris Rice
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


^Amen!

Thank you, and Merry Christmas to you and all!


----------



## Reinan

Happy Christmas gentlemen, may the day bring you joy and happiness!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Having a good time with my fam.

I did pick up this haul the other day. A co-worker said he had some walnut in his barn. Much of it was dinky pieces that may have been branch wood. I took everything I liked. Some are 12" wide by 10' long. Some are 3" thick. 
$100. That'll do just fine. 









Not even sure what I'm gonna make with it. I've got so many projects lined up ahead of it.


----------



## bearkatwood

I hope everyone is doing well and staying warm. I got a fair bit done on the stools. I think I will be gluing up this week if all goes well.









I had to do some funky joinery with the armless stools. They had back supports put in at 12 degree angles to go with the curve of the back.









Then they get router like all maloof joints with the rabbet.










Then I put tenons on the tops of the supports to hold the backs.










I like that stitching detail.










Trying to draw up a look that will go well with the arm stools.










Take care everyone.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Brian, you are a human production line. I like the stitching on those backs, is that to help bind two pieces or just decorative and/or both?

Red - man you find a lot of nice walnut. I'm picking up some cherry later this week for future end tables.


----------



## bearkatwood

It serves both I think. It was common on some of Wegners chairs back when.


----------



## avsmusic1

> Having a good time with my fam.
> 
> I did pick up this haul the other day. A co-worker said he had some walnut in his barn. Much of it was dinky pieces that may have been branch wood. I took everything I liked. Some are 12" wide by 10 long. Some are 3" thick.
> $100. That ll do just fine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not even sure what I m gonna make with it. I ve got so many projects lined up ahead of it.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I'd be angry (out of envy) if I wasn't sure you'll I'll get to enjoy some nice pictures of stuff you'll make from this down the road


----------



## mramseyISU

> Letter buck, JMart!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ve been making some phenomenal handcut dovetails… I have to use my hands to hold the router, you know??
> 
> I ve got a cabinet project that s nearing completion. Just have to sand a bit and apply finish.
> 
> - PPK


I keep saying I'm going to buy one of those and then I end up hand cutting them. Glutton for punishment I guess.


----------



## bearkatwood

I tried hand cutting dovetails. That wood proved to be harder than my fingernails and I ended up a bloody, splintered mess, so I reached for a tool instead. You can plug it in or not, makes no difference to the wood 
Happy woodworking!!


----------



## jmartel

Brian,

I like the stitches. I think those stitches could be dressed up in a cross pattern with dowels put in at the ends for a future build. Could make it look like it was actually sewn together. If it's just decorative, maybe with a copper or silver inlay instead of wood.


----------



## bearkatwood

Sounds like a cool look. On this I had to make them go the whole way through the glue up then I cut the curve of the back out. That is when the cool book matching showed up. It was just a straight board that was cut to angle in on itself and the curve cut in made the bookmatching appear which I didn't expect. I am not sure how I would do the cross pattern in this approach, it would have to be maybe an inlay that was cut in after the curve, but with the dowels like you say it would be a very cool look. For some reason I am thinking of the shirt from that guy in "The Princess Bride"


----------



## BigRedKnothead

^LOL. Your a trip Brian. Those chairs look friggin sweet.


----------



## bearkatwood

They look like tissue boxes or little robots now, but I am grinding today and I can't wait to see what they look like with a little more contour. Thanks Red and everyone for putting up with my high jinx.


----------



## PPK

Brian, that's hilarious…

The weather up here is really putting a cramp in my style… I've been spending more time BURNING wood in the fireplace to keep warm than I have building. It's hard to keep the shop warm when it's -26F… Much less warm enough to apply a finish. All I got accomplished this holiday was brakes and oil change on my suburban.


----------



## PPK

I DID get this^ for Christmas, though, and spent lots of good time with my family! Sorry for complaining…


----------



## bearkatwood

-27 Thats Bolshevik! There aught to be a law against that. All the more reason to have a grudge against the Aussies, give me back my summer!! I was cooking up some tiger maple in the fireplace the other day for lack of other wood and it was 37 degrees. Tiger maple for crying out loud, what has this world come to? I vote that we all start leaning toward the south to get this sucker tilting back the way it aught to be.


----------



## bearkatwood

Game changing book Pete. Nice one.


----------



## CL810

Speaking of Galbert.

Some new neighbors moved in across the street last October. Turns out he is a woodworker and makes Windsor chairs. When he was over visiting my shop last month he said he was going to start on a chair and asked if I'd like to build one with him. We started yesterday on the seats. I located an oak tree coming down next week as a source for the spindles.

A new journey begins….


----------



## Reinan

Brian- I love the stitching on the backs of the armless stools, really ties them in with the arm stools and makes them look part of the set.


----------



## bearkatwood

Thanks Russ, much appreciated. 
If I had a windsor chair maker move next door, I would probably make my wife quite upset. I have more woodworkers around me now than I did in Oregon, but if I met a chairmaker here in this town I would by hard to find outside a woodshop.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

PPK, that's a fantistic book. Pretty much everything LAP puts out is.

It's been negative butt zero temps around here for awhile….so glue ups happen on the dining room table tonight. 









-

Off-topic. I spoke at our church this past week. A sermon and a testimony concerning a crossroads in my life. Thought folks like JayT and Todd might be interested:

http://graceccboone.com/sermons/


----------



## bigblockyeti

Solid sermon Dan, solid!


----------



## bearkatwood

I am halfway thru it and love it so far. You do a good job Red. I was impressed with the greek so it wasn't lost on me  Oh and everything sounds better with a Scottish accent Red.
Side note, we use coasters when we put a drink down because we revere the wood. Put some cardboard on that table my friend lol.


----------



## mramseyISU

In the middle of building a coffee table for a friend. Kind of an odd design he asked for it's a 3' square table. I'm making it out of 8/4 maple, and I'm finishing it at a touch under 1-3/4" thick. It's getting metal legs so I'm just waiting on him to pick out the ones he wants and the finish. I'm hoping I can talk him into a couple coats of BLO and some wax but I think his wife is set on a barn wood look. I'm running the finish samples by tonight.


----------



## bearkatwood

That's a chunk of wood. I am not a fan of the add on wire legs, but the top would look nice with BLO/wax. The barn wood thing should be left to WayUNFair or some import market too. I just don't get the current trend in furniture, it is lacking in my opinion, but what do I know.


----------



## summerfi

Good job Red. Very good job.


----------



## bearkatwood

I agree with Bob, good job Red. How is it going up there by the way Bob, or I guess I should say over there now.


----------



## mramseyISU

> That s a chunk of wood. I am not a fan of the add on wire legs, but the top would look nice with BLO/wax. The barn wood thing should be left to WayUNFair or some import market too. I just don t get the current trend in furniture, it is lacking in my opinion, but what do I know.
> 
> - bearkatwood


I'm with you on all of that. I just don't get the barnwood look either. The wire legs don't bother me as much but I think some thick 2" square legs would look better with that particular table top. Then again it's not going in my house.


----------



## PPK

This proud dad can't help but share his newest carpenter-in-training…
.


----------



## summerfi

Congrats on the new addition Pete. Keep that little one warm.

Brian, it's going fine here. Just hunkered down and enduring winter. I guess in the rush of summer I missed that you had moved. Where are you now?


----------



## bearkatwood

I went from Bandon Oregon to Oak Harbor Washington on whidbey Island. I have started making saws again and will post one I am putting together today here later. 
Welcome to planet earth kiddo! Congrats Pete.


----------



## DanKrager

Congratulations, PPK! Gonna spike the pablum with alder dust? 

DanK


----------



## TheFridge

Congrats PPK 

That's a waste of 8/4 maple  I absolutely hate the shabby chic/pallet wood/ distressed shlt that is the trend today. I blame Pinterest and women.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Pete, wonderful news, congrats!

Red - thanks for sharing that sermon. Listened to it all. God bless, brother. You are a good man.
You are also one of the few people whose voice sounds exactly like I thought it would before hearing it.


----------



## bearkatwood

Bocote Tenon saw 10tpi 3 5/8" under the back, 8degree rake .025 plate heading to Florida.


----------



## bearkatwood

It doesn't really show in the picture above, but I carved a scroll volute in the lambs tongue which was trying in such a brittle wood. It is a small handle already going to a woman with small hands so the volute was pretty tiny, the smallest I have carved.


----------



## Mosquito

> Red - thanks for sharing that sermon. Listened to it all. God bless, brother. You are a good man.
> You are also one of the few people whose voice sounds exactly like I thought it would before hearing it.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


I missed that the first time by, so glad you mentioned it so I found it. Thanks Red. Red should have a podcast. I don't care what he talks about, I'd listen lol


----------



## ToddJB

Rojo, solid. Thanks. I wish you would have talked about your years in the traveling ballet group, though.

Congrats, Pete!

Brian, that is my favorite looking saw you've done to date.

Wrapped up a couple furniture pieces.

All reclaimed oak kids table/desk



















And this why you make kids furniture out of hardwood.



















Not sold on milk paint, yet.

And here is a princess shoe rack. Pretty simple. Ambrose Maple.


----------



## Hammerthumb

That's cool Brian!

Congratulations PPK. That's much better work than Brian's!

Well I'm off to San Fran for a month or two. Got to rescue a construction project from going off the rails.


----------



## Hammerthumb

You posted that while I was typing Todd.

I think you confused Fridge with Red on the ballet thing.

Yes, must make kids furniture indestructible. Fridge can tell you that (after he changes out of his tights).


----------



## summerfi

Beautiful saw Brian. Love the bocote. You are a true artist.


----------



## JayT

Well done, Red. The only thing I'm going to disagree about is how God handed down the gifts. You might have a voice and face for radio, but I have a face for radio and a voice for silent films.


----------



## Mosquito

> Well done, Red. The only thing I m going to disagree about is how God handed down the gifts. You might have a voice and face for radio, but I have a face for radio and a voice for silent films.
> 
> - JayT


Same, hence why I was involved with an outreach ministry for 16-1/2 years that used puppets with music and pre-recorded dialogue lol


----------



## woodcox

Congrats Pete! I wish him and momma well. 
We are actually in the room getting ready for our baby boy today.

Solid work Todd and Brian.


----------



## bearkatwood

> You might have a voice and face for radio, but I have a face for radio and a voice for silent films.
> 
> - JayT


That's too good. Red the sermon was well done and I agree, your voice sounds just like I imagined. A little less "Shreky", but darn close. 
Thank you Bob, amazing words coming from you. I am working for one of your clients right now making a tenon saw in bocote but with a steel back. It is for Darson in Oregon if you remember him.
Be safe in San Fran Paul, they are shaking lately. I am betting there will be more soon. I was stationed down there in Oakland for a while and it was funny to wake to the sounds of car alarms going off after a quake. I was sleeping on a boat, so we never noticed it.



> Congratulations PPK. That's much better work than Brian's!
> - Hammerthumb


I will just have to try harder 

Todd, why doesn't everyone show kids jumping off their furniture. It would sell me, if it is strong enough to hold up to a kid then it will last. They used to have kids test bomb shelters to see if they would make it.

Again Red, thanks for starting my day of with some clarity, it kept me from getting caught up in the junk I have to deal with and put it all in perspective. Nicely done sir.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Todd, why doesn't everyone show kids jumping off their furniture. It would sell me, if it is strong enough to hold up to a kid then it will last. They used to have kids test bomb shelters to see if they would make it.
> 
> - bearkatwood


Funny, I agree. 
Also, terrific saw. Love what you and Bob do.


----------



## ToddJB

> Congrats Pete! I wish him and momma well.
> We are actually in the room getting ready for our baby boy today.
> 
> Solid work Todd and Brian.
> 
> - woodcox


TODAY? Go Mrs. Woody!

Brian, if you're going to make it - make it hardy.


----------



## summerfi

Brian, yes, I've restored several saws for Darson. Nice fellow. I'm glad he found you.


----------



## bearkatwood

Thanks Colonel. Sounds like it is baby central going on here. Congrats to all you new parents and grand parents. They are the reason for all of this goofy world.


----------



## theoldfart

Pete, congratulations on the new apprentice! 
Woody, premature congratulations as well.

Brian, great looking saw.


----------



## bearkatwood

Bob, if you ever make it to Portland and get to meet him, he knows all the best coffee spots. I had a dinner with him and then met up with him one morning for coffee when I was there for a class. Great guy and man does he love his saws


----------



## putty

Cute little guy Woodcox, what are the specs/dimensions?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dang thread done blowed up.

Congrats Pete. Beautiful baby.

Brian, that saw is ridonculous. I love it.

Todd, I reserve the right to jump off your furniture when we visit in May.

Thanks for all the kind words on the sermon guys. My pastor asked me to fill in. I guess you could say I've been writing that sermon in my head for years. A little tough to share some parts, but necessary. 
I've had several people ask me why I didn't go into full time ministry. Well, with the emotions high I left out part of my sermon. After the Tijuana testimony I wanted to say: "I'm sure you all figured out the rest of the story. I did go off to that Christian College. God blew my mind with the partner he had in mind for me. Within weeks of meeting she became the best friend I will ever have. 
And well, I did sorta stink it up on that basketball team. Oh well. The Lord didn't call me into full-time ministry, but he did give me a leadership role where I can use my gifts. God blesses us all immeasurably when we choose His truth over the lies.

On a lighter note, the recording cracked me up because you couldn't hear the congregation laugh at my jokes. I just sound like Beavis chuckling at my hardy-hars.

Mos, you cracked me up, because i think I sound a bit like this guy…








LOL


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks for the sermon Red. Just now got time to listen to it. I know you won't mind that I forward it to a few friends.

Thank you for sharing, and God bless you and your family.


----------



## TheFridge

> Cute little guy Woodcox, what are the specs/dimensions?
> 
> - putty


Hahahaha


----------



## Mosquito

lol I could see that Red


----------



## PPK

Sorry to hijack your thread, Red  Baby boy just made my day, and couldn't help but share. Thanks for all the well-wishes, friends!

I should take some shots of my Morris chair after it's distressing process. It began the very day I brought it into the house… My then 1.5 year old took the nice hickory hammer I made for him from his pound a peg toy and broke in the arm of that "flawless" (haha) morris chair… sigh. I didn't expect it to stay nice, but I DID expect it to at least stay nice for a day. Not. Oh well.

Gotta find time to listen to the sermon now. And build something! Keep it up boys!


----------



## CL810

Making progress on the Windsor. Boy is it easier when you get to do this with a guy who's made dozens and has all the jigs. Double bobbin legs have been turned. I haven't turned anything for about 3 years so there are a few spindles in the scrap bin for practice later. Used maple for the legs. Split a red oak tree (about 20" diameter) into pieces to make the spindles for the back. No way to describe that except it was work.

Seat is in progress. A good scraper goes a long way.


----------



## bearkatwood

I am stealing that picture, nice looking work.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Andy, the neighbor windsor thing is awesome. I've had few neighbors that were cabinet makers in my day, but they weren't all that friendly. However, I've had several neighbors who've hooked me up with some awesome wood. So, my life doesn't suck.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

A guy says to me, "Your background is a lot like mine. Your story made me realize I've had one foot still on the beach for years. I've been thinking about it all week. Thank you."

Dang.

--

Back on topic. The banister build goes forth. It's gonna be beefy arts and crafts…like the one I built on my last house. I believe that was one of my first LJ posts. This time Cherry, with white balisters (poplar)









This baby drum paid for itself on those poplar balisters. Smooth and the every important uniform thickness. 









Now some hvlp white action.


----------



## RPhillips

> Bocote Tenon saw 10tpi 3 5/8" under the back, 8degree rake .025 plate heading to Florida.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - bearkatwood


Beautiful Saw Brian.


----------



## bearkatwood

Thank you very much Rob, I am having a lot of fun learning and making them.


----------



## PPK

Brian, I'm really missing your stump… Didn't you dig that thing up and take it with you?!? Somethin' about cutting into a stump that makes a saw look fantastic…


----------



## bearkatwood

I miss it too. I looked around to find a place to take that picture and used the post sticking up form the hot tub, not quite a chic as the stump.


----------



## PPK

Just cut down one of those trees in the background to get yourself a stump… and then you could make a winsor like CL810 with the rest of the tree… LOL!


----------



## bearkatwood

I do have someone coming next month to knock all the trees down, but they are all fir and will be turned into workbenches and sold for some sweet green  Cash that is, not that pot crap.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Did you balance that thing on the hot tub post??? No rigging wires? No glue?


----------



## bearkatwood

Ha, yeah.  I have little blocks of wood with kerfs cut in them to hold the saws.


----------



## Mosquito

I would give you some green fir some of that fir if it weren't so fir away. Erm, green for and far away.

I'm wanting to increase the capacity of the work bench now that it's out in the shop.


----------



## bearkatwood

that might spruce up your shop. Elm sorry you're so fir away.


----------



## PPK

aldernatively, you could ask Fridge for some of the king of all woods…


----------



## bearkatwood

Here is a quick run through of pictures I took for a customer in making his dovetail saw today.


----------



## bearkatwood

Oh and I also got all the stool bases glued together, I will start on sanding (though I don't use sand paper very much, it should be "scraping") tomorrow.


----------



## Reinan

Wow Brian those stools are really coming along!

I feel slow by comparison!

I got the breadboards on the mahogany and maple piece installed and sanded them in tonight, then profiled the top and bottom edges with a 1/8 roundover to break the edges and wiped a coat of BLO/MS mixture on. Wish the mahogany had darkened a little more, to create more of a contrast, but I like the way the character aligns.


----------



## bearkatwood

Love the grain on that, looking very nice.


----------



## RPhillips

man, that wood has some beautiful figure.


----------



## bearkatwood

I got a little curly going on too.



















One top down, six tops to go and seven bottoms. I am tired just thinking about it.


----------



## CL810

Chairs are looking great Brian. Man, you're knocking 'em out in no time.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Wow the seats look great, I would be truly impressed getting that delivery.


----------



## bearkatwood

Calling it a week done. Hope you all have a great weekend. 
I wanted to get finish on this guy today, but didn't quite make it and it is better not to rush. Come Monday I will have two full stool ready for finish, just have to wait.


----------



## JayT

Dang, Brian. those are looking sweet! So what's the plan, two "captain's" stools with armrests and the rest without?


----------



## bearkatwood

There are three armed stools and four without.


----------



## Reinan

Amazing work Brian, I can't wait to see the pictures of the whole set after finish. Those are a beautiful design and well executed!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Work with me you big arse miter. Work with me here…;-P


----------



## DanKrager

BRK, your eyes are bigger than my stomach! That's a very wide miter…something I would not even think of incorporating in a project of mine because of the stuff I have seen over the years of repair work. Miters simply will not stay closed no matter what you put within or nearby to hold them together. It's very rare that one can find an old, big miter that is still tight. A mitered 2" wide board MIGHT stay, and probably will if it the most stable of woods. Good luck!

But for big miters to start out tight, you've got the right tool!

DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Brian, when that picture first popped up I thought "Man! That's a pretty slick upholstery job!

Can't wait to see that pop under finish!

DanK


----------



## bearkatwood

POP


----------



## DanKrager

Oh my!

Carry on….

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

POP? I think BOOM! or maybe BAM.  looks quite fine Brian.


----------



## bearkatwood

I am quite partial to BAZINGA


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice work Brian. I like Bazinga also!


----------



## bearkatwood

I also managed to get another saw out the door today, this one was the first to have my new stamp on the spine.










And one of the saw nuts is engraved with my logo










Makes for a sharp looking tool, pardon the pun.


----------



## ColonelTravis

beautiful stuff


----------



## summerfi

Brian…..SLOW DOWN…...you're making the rest of us look bad. ;-)


----------



## bearkatwood

I'll slow down when I am dead  Hopefully I have a few days to go. I am never going to make your work look bad Bob, that just can't happen.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Wish I had a heated workshop. Have not done squat for weeks. Won't get above freezing next two days. This Sat it will be close to 70.

Ah, Texas winters.


----------



## Reinan

My word Brian, those stools are absolutely beautiful! The design and craftsmanship is amazing! And that saw!


----------



## bearkatwood

Thank you very much Russ, I have been having fun with them.


----------



## PPK

I…. just….wanna…. be like Brian… Sniff. *Sob*

This is more emotional than the Vikings win… ;-)


----------



## bearkatwood

funny, I thought you said Vikings win  like that will ever happen.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Dank. It is a 1×8 that will be at the base of a stair railing. I guess I could've used a butt joint, but it just wouldn't have looked right imo. I do plan on reinforcing it with dominos. Hope it helps.

Straight up sexy work Brian. The joinery IS the bling. I dig it.


----------



## CWolf

I'm hoping to build the expandable dining table featured in Fine Woodworking #165 and shown at:
http://www.finewoodworking.com/2006/12/01/an-expandable-table

I have the magazine article, and I have also seen the project in their "Furniture" book, and they are only three pages long, not a typical full construction article or plan. Before starting on this I would rather have more detailed information if possible. If I can't, I'll probably tackle it anyway, but more info would be better.

Has anyone here seen a more complete plan for a table with this mechanism? Alternatively, has anyone built this table from the basic FWW article? Thanks.

(I actually looked up the author/designer William Krase and found that he died about ten years ago, so I wasn't able to ask him any questions about it.)


----------



## bearkatwood

I can see how that one might be a bit tricky if you don't have all the particulars. It looks pretty straight forward though if you can get that swivel part right.


----------



## DanKrager

Ah, that's a different story, BRK. I should have asked… It'll work out OK for that! You're right… better than a butt joint. You doing railing too? I got a railing and some balusters to do…thinking about hand cutting…maybe….if I get ambitious…if the weather is good, and if if if if. One piece is almost 20' long.

DanK


----------



## ColonelTravis

CWolf, I've got that issue myself and looking at it I can see how confounding it is. I noticed that the guy who designed it was a retired aerospace engineer so I'm sure this swivel mechanism is a one-off found in no other table, unless you can find someone else who built it or copied from it and who the heck knows about that. I get the concept but I'm probably like you - I need to see the whole table in action, where everything is laid out, before I can fully comprehend it. Also, like you, I wondered if he was still alive because I've emailed people before about this sort of thing. Sorry you're out of luck there.

Short answer: can't help you but I feel your pain.


----------



## bearkatwood

Morning everyone. This is not directly a piece of furniture for this forum, but it is about a furniture maker so I figured you all wouldn't mind. Last year I did an interview with a woodworker who lived near me. He was kind of the woodworking icon for our area. I was fortunate enough to be in an art exhibit with him in Roseburg, Oregon back in 2006. I got to know him and we became pretty good friends. He had some great stories and wisdom to share in the interview and it was hard to cut anything out so it may run a bit long. It feels like sitting around and chatting with family to me. Just something about woodworkers, they are my family. 
Let me know your thoughts. Enjoy and please excuse any audio or video problems as I am not a film maker.
Interview With Rick Cook


----------



## Reinan

All machining and sanding done, light coat of BLO before a wipes coat of 1# amber shellac. Then I will attach the top with 8 shopmade buttons.



















After that a trip to be sprayed with precat lacquer and it's ready for a showroom. What do you gents think; will it be a slow sale or quick?


----------



## PPK

I'd buy it! 

Nice job


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah. The saints suck. So does LSU. Weak way to end football in Louisiana this year. And an Louisiana kid catches the game winning last chance TD for bama. Salt in the wound.


----------



## bearkatwood

Table looks great, very nice work.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Slow or quick sale depends on price, market and advertising. For your sake, I'm hoping for quick, high, good & little.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Toss in the car for free, it will sell immediately.
Awesome looking table.


----------



## bearkatwood

That is a dang nice car. Wrong color for me, but I could manage.


----------



## CL810

What better way to celebrate legs up than a good beer.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Do you have a hot box for the leg tennons?


----------



## CL810

Paul, we did not for the leg tenon but will for the spindle tenons.


----------



## RPhillips

> What better way to celebrate legs up than a good beer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - CL810


I think you nailed it. Love me a good beer, especially from that region.


----------



## bondogaposis

I've been getting all my recent plans from these guys

Smells like a Ted's Wood Working clone. The images of the " staff" are cartoons!


----------



## PPK

Looks like spam to me. It's this cosmo123 guy's first post…


----------



## bearkatwood

Spam, spam, spam and eggs.


----------



## JayT

Brian, you mean, like this?





View on YouTube


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Here's some shots of the finished railing folks. I'm pretty happy with it. 

















You can see the hutch in the background…and how much darker the cherry will age. Can't wait. 


























Not sure how others build their railings, but I use big hanger bolts on the under side of the rail. Very solid.


----------



## bearkatwood

I'm a lumberjack and I'm O.K. with that one


----------



## bearkatwood

Red, that turned out very nice. Good to have helpers too.


----------



## JayT

Red, looks good. You do very clean work.



> I m a lumberjack and I m O.K. with that one
> 
> - bearkatwood


The lumberjack is probably my favorite Monty Python skit. I started singing it in the office one day about a month ago and got some funny looks until I showed the video.

My weekend included starting to work on a desktop.









14in wide walnut being planed off to see the grain better.


----------



## PPK

Red, Nice railing! Are you going to fill in the little gap on the left side of the first picture?? I can just picture my son with his head stuck in there…

JayT, if that were me with that plane, I'd be planing away with that nice-lookin plane, whistling merrily, and then next thing I know, there'd be no board left because I was having so much fun making curlies ;-)


----------



## PPK

Actually, I thought about that more. My son would be through the railing all but his head… He does this on our baby gate that goes down the stairs. Little rascal. So much for the safety of a baby gate.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Red, Nice railing! Are you going to fill in the little gap on the left side of the first picture?? I can just picture my son with his head stuck in there…
> 
> - PPK


Ha, there are two balusters on the short run to the wall, but I think the big post is barely hiding the. Code is 4" spacing, I went 3" because I like the proportions. 
Our old one was wobbly and dangerous. The posts just had 1" dowel going into the subfloor…with one deck screw. Lame because every railing I've built had a joist right there accessible. My posts have a 4×4" poplar core that goes through the subfloor… with spax lag bolts fastened to the joist. Fridge Perry couldn't knock it over;-P


----------



## ToddJB

Resisting a 55-year-old man with knee, hip, and back issues is your gauge for structural integrity? Good.


----------



## PPK

Totally changing subjects:

I was perusing the links that Red posted at the top of this forum… and found C.H. Becksvoort… and found how he hides a silver dollar in his large pieces to mark the date of construction. How COOL is that?? I've always found silver dollars fascinating. I wish we still used money that's worth something.

Someday, SOMEDAY it'd be so cool to be at the point the he's at where he can just make a few pieces a year and command the price he wants… (I think he said he makes about 20-30 a year, and his prices are really up there)
I suppose Brian's already there. Just hide a silver dollar in your chairs, okay? ;-P

https://chbecksvoort.com/tbeckdiff.html

Anywho, just to put it all in perspective… "Well, you can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up faster."


----------



## DanKrager

Nice railing, BRK. 
You made your own rail if I recall correctly, right? I'm debating buy or make. I have a guard rail to make for the same kind of situation and was working on it today. I plan to use turned balusters. A stair railing over 19' long will be needed too. Mine is oak so buying is an option.

DanK


----------



## bondogaposis

C.H. Becksvoort… and found how he hides a silver dollar in his large pieces to mark the date of construction.

I use pennies, my clients don't pay as well.


----------



## bearkatwood

I use magic marker. I feel like I pay them to work sometimes.


----------



## bondogaposis

I finally got motivated to mitigate the despised concrete shop floor. I am using dricore panels, which go down really easy and fast, except for the tools and work benches I have to move out of the way to get to the floor. My plan is to do 1/3 at a time. Move the stuff onto the new floor as I go. I am 1/3 done as of today.


----------



## Mosquito

Cool Bondo. I have thought about doing the same in my shop too. Did you just seal the OSB, or are you putting something else on top of it?


----------



## bondogaposis

Yes, I sealed it with floor varnish and no I'm not putting anything on top of it.


----------



## PPK

Why don't you like concrete, Bondo? Too cold? I've never worked in a shop that has anything but a concrete floor, so I guess I don't know what I could be missing out on…


----------



## JADobson

Nice work Bondo. I'm putting Delta FL in my basement right now. I was looking at the dri-core panels but this was cheaper. More work, but my time is cheap 

Edit: this is going in my kid's playroom. Not the shop. Maybe that's obvious. Haha.


----------



## bondogaposis

> Why don t you like concrete, Bondo? Too cold? I ve never worked in a shop that has anything but a concrete floor, so I guess I don t know what I could be missing out on…
> 
> - PPK


Yes, it's cold and hard and I'm old. It's really hard on my joints working out there all day. Seems to effect me most in the winter and even though the shop is well heated the floor stays ice cold. I have a lot of anti-fatigue mats, they help but have been a pain to clean up around. I'm hoping this will be the solution.


----------



## rad457

Wish I could do that in my shop, not sure the in floor heating would work all that well? Got rubber mats every where I stand.


----------



## JayT

Continuing to work on the desk top. When someone asks why they should learn to use hand planes, this is a prime example. How else to flatten a 33in wide panel?










I love it when the jointer (606, in this case)starts giving those full width, full length shavings










And finishing up with the smoother.










Next step is working on the breadboard ends.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice wood jack plane JayT.

Glad to see you using it!


----------



## JayT

It gets frequent use as my go to for any rough work on clean lumber. (I use an iron plane on reclaimed, just in case of finding metal). Scrubbing, flattening, shaving off a little width, etc, it works a charm.


----------



## bearkatwood

So today is the big day, I am shipping off the stools to Colorado. I hate this part, it is a week of stress hoping they don't get messed up.
I think they turned out pretty well.













































Jay, nice desk top there, like that last plane shown. Great stuff.
Have a nice day everyone, not sure when the next furniture piece will be. I am stuck in saw land for a while, but I have plans for a room divider, a hutch and maybe a sculpted rocker job.
TTFN


----------



## JayT

Those stools are dead sexy, Brian. The new owner is sure to love them.


----------



## Reinan

Those look amazing Brian, wonderful work! You should be very proud of those.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Awesome work, Brian. 
I'd be freaking out shipping those, too!
We've got a pool and I need to do some pump repairs this winter, I ordered a plastic valve, about the size of a grapefruit. Arrived yesterday, amazon put it in a sizable box. There was a sheet of bubble wrap on top and that's it. It was intact but, geez, I'm sure the bubble wrap visited every side of that box through delivery.

I know you packed better than amazon, I don't know what's going on with that company they seem to ship everything horribly.


----------



## bondogaposis

Brian, those look great. I'd be stressed too if I had to ship something that nice. Got my fingers crossed for you.


----------



## summerfi

An amazing job Brian. Your furniture making skills are second to no one.

CT, agree with you on Amazon shipping. The box is always way bigger than necessary, and the padding materials are minimal. I've never had anything from them damaged in shipping, but for the life of me I can't figure out why.


----------



## PPK

Maybe that's the secret… "bouncing room prevents damage" You know, my experience is the same as your summerfi. But I'm also trying to remember anything that I've ordered that is big or that COULD get damaged easily…not really anything. Brian, try out this newfound theory for us on one stool and see, ok? Just kidding. 
Fantastic work as always.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Man those are some beautiful stools!


----------



## bearkatwood

It is about 10 days of pure stress waiting to hear if they made it there ok. But I have shipped so many now that I don't get too worried. I have yet to have a mishap since I switched to shipping via freight. I find a local transfer office and take my crate there and it seems to be a lot better than fedex ups or the post office.
Thanks for all the kind words folks, much appreciated.


----------



## bobasaurus

Jay, that's an impressive flattening job! Do you use a cambered or toothed blade in the jack for the roughing? Any problems with heavy tearout before moving to the jointer/smoother with better chipbreakers/angles/mouths?


----------



## bobasaurus

Brian, the stools look great. That's probably more woodworking than I've done in my life.


----------



## JayT

> Jay, that s an impressive flattening job! Do you use a cambered or toothed blade in the jack for the roughing? Any problems with heavy tearout before moving to the jointer/smoother with better chipbreakers/angles/mouths?
> 
> - bobasaurus


The blade in the jack is lightly cambered. The walnut I was using had some reversing grain, so there was a bit of tearout in spots. When those areas came up, I used the 606 with its tightly set chipbreaker and lighter passes to flatten.

The reversing grain and tearout prone quartersawn sycamore center board is also why I used my mini smoother (6in long with 1-1/2in iron) since it is bedded at 57.5 degrees. It was a lot of top to smooth with a plane that small, but since it was already flat and mostly ready from the jointer, it only took one or two passes in most places.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Oh yeah QS sycamore can be a beast to plane. Wonderful looking table, JayT.


----------



## jmartel

Dang Brian. I'm sure the shipping cost alone on those is probably what most people spend on a set of stools.


----------



## bearkatwood

You would be correct, it was $496 for the shipment, $125 for the insurance on the shipment and about $160 to build the two crates and pad them. Costly stuff.


----------



## 4David

Greetings,

Hope this an appropriate forum for this question.

I am designing a bench with storage. The bench is for our cats to watch the world from however I can see a human siting on the bench and want to make sure it will hold up. Storage will be DVD overflow.

I attached two files with a front and side view with dimensions. I am thinking oak, 7/8" thick for the rails & stiles. 1" long tenons on the ends of the rails. Can anyone tell me if this will be strong enough? Also are there formulas or apps to calculate structural characteristics for furniture?

Thanks for any information or direction you can provide.

David


----------



## bearkatwood

57 1/2" is a pretty good span, I would try to make the rails as beefy as you can get away with in your design and likewise with the tenons, but overall I would say it should do ok as is. I have seen desks sag in the middle because the rails didn't do their job. I like to use a thirds rule and have the drawers or panels be at most one third of the height in the span leaving two thirds for strong rails to support the tops. Hope that helps.


----------



## DanKrager

To what Brian has pointed out, I would add that 18" span 7/8" thick is very wide if not supported underneath for humans to sit upon. When designing for humans, I think about 400 lb gorillas dancing on it. The front (and I hope) rear frame structure is similar to torsion box construction, so with 1 1/2" x 3/8" or 1/2" tenons it would appear to be strong enough, though personally I would open the 1 3/4" top rail to 2 1/4" and thicken up the bottom rail appropriately. You show a solid panel at the ends, but know that is not going to work well, unless it's plywood. If you run a pair of 2" rails from front to back to help support the top in the middle, I think you'll be fine.

Assuming the legs are laminated from two layers of 7/8" material, you won't end up with 1 3/4" finished thickness, and that's OK if you allow for it. The laminations should be oriented to show at the ends, though if you lock miter four pieces you can get full dimension with no laminates showing.

Looking forward to seeing this underway! Keep us posted.

DanK


----------



## bearkatwood

When in doubt, build it stout.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ridonculous work Brian.

I'm still working on boring stuff in my house.

Another personal and intense blog. Therapeutic for me to write though.

http://www.westfallwoodcraft.com/2018/02/miss-someone-i-never-met.html


----------



## 4David

"If you run a pair of 2" rails from front to back to help support the top in the middle, I think you'll be fine."

Dan,

The rails you refer to, 2" tall by 7/8" wide. Would they be at the midpoint of the top & bottom rails? Basically creating two boxes 27 3/4" long each in place of the 57 1/2" long span?

David


----------



## DanKrager

David, I was thinking just two at the top that divide the top into thirds. The bottom rail is hefty enough with the increases. Besides, the torsion box effect greatly strengthens the front and back assemblies. It's just the top that needs the support, IMHO.

DanK


----------



## CL810

Slow, steady progress on the chair has resumed after a short break. I am soooo lucky to have someone guiding me through this.


----------



## bearkatwood

nice!


----------



## DanKrager

Whoa, Cl810! New challenges for sure!

DanK


----------



## duckmilk

There is some fine woodworking being done here! I am amazed at all of you and your hard work! My hat is off to you guys.
I haven't been following along here much, cause I don't really build furniture, or much anything as that goes, but I have been trying to catch up in the last couple of days. I got to the point where Red shared the sermon he did on Dec. 31, and listened to it. I'll be gone for a few days to a funeral for a friend of mine, and it touched me. Thank you Dan, it was incredible.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Man that is such great progress on the windsor. Not sure if I already said this but that particular project is something I instinctively know I'm just never gonna do unless I'm in your situation. Right now there's a house for sale directly behind ours, and when I'm in the garage shop I always talked to past neighbors about what I do when they see me, but none have ever been into woodworking.

Be funny if a windsor chair maker moves in.


----------



## Reinan

That chair looks like quite the piece of work, if I had someone to guide me through it I might try it, but I don't see that anytime soon.

I'm working on a little end table for my aunt and uncle right now, I'm trying a drawer on it for the first time.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Where do you people find this walnut???


----------



## bearkatwood

What? You don't have a walnut stockpile in your backyard? 
I get mine from crosscuts in Eugene oregon or Seattle Washington. There is a place a ferry ride across from me Edensaw lumber that has a good selection too.


----------



## Reinan

Must see some of the same supply Brian, I get some locally that's sourced from Oregon or a place in Walla Walla that has amazing stuff. I'm in the Tri-Cities in SE Washington.

Still costs a fair bit at ~$11-12/bd ft, but it's really nice stuff.


----------



## bearkatwood

When I go I load up with as much as I can afford, sometimes around 2k. It helps as they give a business discount on it and I can get the walnut down under $10bf.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Why has the price of walnut skyrocketed in recent years? Disease? Is someone vacuuming up the supply?


----------



## TraylorPark

You guys should really move to Ohio. Here the local places have walnut for $8 retail, and I've seen it on craig's list for whole bunks of it for $4.50.


----------



## PPK

I'm always floored at how anyone can charge $10-12/BF for lumber… but that's the goin' price for Walnut up here in ND too. I have a co-worker that lives in Missouri, and he brought me up some of his stache of walnut and cherry (air dried, rough sawn) and sold it all to me for $1.50/BF  !!! It's only 4/4, but it's beautiful stuff… I think it's who you know, not what you know, like anything else…

The other problem I run into is that local walnut isn't black walnut. IDK what species it is, but it's always pretty bland/light colored.

Nice work on the end table, Russ. Cool joinery you got goin on that stretcher. I'm excited to see it finished!


----------



## johnstoneb

$10 to $12 is the going price for straight grained clear walnut hear also. High Desert Hardwoods here stock another grade of walnut that is about $8 it has knots and wild grain and some beautiful wood. I go for it almost everytime. The Cabinet shops and trim people want that straight grain clear stuff. The character is in the lower grade and it happens to be lower prices also.


----------



## bearkatwood

I am still working through the stack I got in West Virginia. A mill close to my house burned down and to rebuild they sold off all their stock at .35cents per bf so I bought a few thousand feet of white oak, cherry, poplar and walnut.


----------



## Reinan

Could use some help from you gents, I'm building a little drawer for this end table and have a piece of walnut I would like to use for the drawer front. It has a large knot hole that I was planning on centering for the face.

















I had considered filling that knot hole with epoxy and putting a knob in the center because this is a flush drawer. But I'm not certain that is the best course, having never worked with filling with epoxy. I don't really want to use a pull handle because in my mind it would distract from the wood. My other choice is an edge type pull mounted to the top. What do you guys think?


----------



## bearkatwood

What about something like this?









Using the knot to it's advantage.


----------



## bearkatwood

Talking with Bob about curvy furniture and I needed to post a picture of the tea cabinet I will be making this year for my wife. This is just a preliminary drawing.









It started out with this drawing I made a year ago and then we added the Art Nouveau lines to it.









Should be a fun chalange.


----------



## Reinan

> What about something like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using the knot to it s advantage.
> 
> - bearkatwood


That's another idea, though I would prefer to leave the knot hole as natural as possible, and I am also just mounting a face, the drawer box is completed from 1/2 poplar. I suppose I could drill a hole in the poplar face and clean up the rough edges on the inside of the knot and have a finger hole type pull… hmm..


----------



## bearkatwood

Halfblind dovetails on the walnut face would make it work.


----------



## PPK

> Talking with Bob about curvy furniture and I needed to post a picture of the tea cabinet I will be making this year for my wife. This is just a preliminary drawing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It started out with this drawing I made a year ago and then we added the Art Nouveau lines to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should be a fun chalange.
> 
> - bearkatwood


Looks very "Bearkat-y" it'll turn out great I'm sure… plus, happy wife = happy life!!!


----------



## PPK

> Could use some help from you gents, I'm building a little drawer for this end table and have a piece of walnut I would like to use for the drawer front. It has a large knot hole that I was planning on centering for the face.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had considered filling that knot hole with epoxy and putting a knob in the center because this is a flush drawer. But I'm not certain that is the best course, having never worked with filling with epoxy. I don't really want to use a pull handle because in my mind it would distract from the wood. My other choice is an edge type pull mounted to the top. What do you guys think?
> 
> - Reinan


I don't know if it'd match too well with the rest of the peice (not rustic enough perhaps), but I think it would be cool to get a walnut branch and turn it into a knob, and then insert that into the knothole. probably would have to clean up/bore out the knot a little. Heck, you could even leave the bark on the end of the knob… "live-edge" knob ;-)


----------



## johnstoneb

Russ
You need to use a longer curing epoxy system 3 would work. I use flexcoat a fishing rod finish epoxy takes about 18hr for a full cure. I would go clear with that one I think. I will with knots and crack sometimes color or mix glitter in the epoxy to call attention to the defect. When filling tape the back side tightly because that epoxy will run into any little opening.


----------



## bearkatwood

Bearkat-y, I like that. I also like the branch knob idea, but I agree it should be more rustic to go with that. I still think just hollowing out the knot and using it as the pull might work. The knot on the leg will go with it and I wouldn't put it in centered, since the piece is all symmetrical a little off balance design feature might work nice.


----------



## PPK

All I mean is that it's very unique to you. Every artist has his own style, right? Btw, what how did you come up with "Bearkat"? I was looking for an explanation on your webpage, but didn't see anything… Time for a history lesson!


----------



## bearkatwood

My wife's name is Kitty and she calls me Bear, pretty lame, but it worked. If you look at the logo you can see both animals.


----------



## PPK

Sure enough, there is a cat… I noticed the bear, but never the cat. Clever. Thanks!


----------



## mramseyISU

> Why has the price of walnut skyrocketed in recent years? Disease? Is someone vacuuming up the supply?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


It's all going to China and believe it or not the market was way crazier back in like '93 or '94. My grandpa ran a stave mill pretty much exclusively for close to 30 years but I do remember those two years he stopped selling staves and ran nothing but walnut. The export market was crazy, we couldn't saw boards fast enough those two years.


----------



## bearkatwood

Stop Buying Stuff From China!! Please for the love of mike, unless it is fine china, even then your chance of getting high quality is under scrutiny. Make it where you are or buy it from someone who is as close as possible. That doesn't apply to my saws or scrapers, if you live on the moon by all means order them


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Yep, my lumber peeps claim China has driven up both the cost of walnut and cocobolo. There's a walnut mill in Council Bluffs IA that doesn't even sell to anyone in the US. It all goes into intermodel crates….and off to China. We haul it via rail. I guess black walnut looks a lot like a prized species over there.

I can still get walnut from small mills around here for 3-4 a bd ft though ;-P


----------



## Reinan

Thanks for the input guys, I talked it over with the recipient and she decided the liked the edge type pull on the top edge of the drawer the best. She loves pieces with a danish mod vibe, which is also why she had me taper the legs. Hopefully it works, but it won't be very noticeable either way.


----------



## Sunstealer73

Hey guys, I haven't checked this thread in a while. I've been lazy and haven't been making much for the past several months. Some great stuff on the previous pages though. My wife's been wanting a new kitchen hutch for a few years. We have her grandmother's old kitchen cabinet, but it doesn't work well with modern small appliances. It's the style made for holding flour with a built-in sifter. They're really common in the south, especially the Appalachian area.

Anyway, I bought a bunch of quarter sawn white oak a few years ago and have just been storing it up. I finally started working on the hutch last week. It's roughly based on the Country Hutch from Fine Woodworking #189. The structural pieces are from reclaimed 2×6 and 2×8 white oak barn wood. My favorite local lumber supplier shut down, so I had to improvise. Other than missing one nail and nicking a jointer blade, it came out pretty clean.

I did get to buy a new Domino since there are so many M&T joints. I can't believe I waited so long on buying one, it almost feels like cheating. The base has 64 M&T joints and I cut them all in a couple of hours. This is the first dry fit and everything came together completely square and tight, that's by far a first for me. No chiseling, no shoulder plane, just good tight joints.










I did finish a new router table and cabinet with storage over the last few months. I've never had a setup I felt comfortable using for raised panels. The only ones I had done in the past were using a table saw about 25 years ago. These are my first ones using the new router table and panel raising bit. It's all my Bosch 1617 wants, even doing it in 4 passes. I think I'll be upgrading that next. These are actually the panels for the back in case I made any mistakes. I still have to raise the side panels and then I'll be ready for some pre-finish and base assembly.










This is by far the most complicated piece I've ever built other than actual buildings, and I haven't even started on the top part yet. I'm really happy with it so far. I picked some really gorgeous boards for the side panels. I'm almost out of QSWO though. I think I have enough for the bottom doors and drawer fronts. Steve Wall Lumber is about 2 hours from me, so I think I'll be taking a road trip soon to stock up.


----------



## PPK

Looks great, Sunstealer!! That piece has lots of character. I've never used a domino, but it sounds like it sure speeds things up. What's your finish plan for all that nice QSWO?

I'll talk to ya'll at Easter time again. I'm giving up LumberJocks for lent ;-) Go ahead and say anything you want about me while I'm away


----------



## Sunstealer73

Thanks, I normally do Watco Danish Oil in Dark Walnut, then Sealcoat, then a satin poly. It looks very similar to a mission or arts & crafts style finish on QSWO.


----------



## ColonelTravis

OK, I had also heard that China was vacuuming up the walnut supply, not sure where I heard that. But if others are being told this, I suspect it's true.

Thanks.


----------



## mramseyISU

> Stop Buying Stuff From China!! Please for the love of mike, unless it is fine china, even then your chance of getting high quality is under scrutiny. Make it where you are or buy it from someone who is as close as possible. That doesn t apply to my saws or scrapers, if you live on the moon by all means order them
> 
> - bearkatwood


The problem with that is assuming that they are shipping furniture back to us made from walnut and I don't think that's the case at all. There's a lot of demand from the upper crust of Chinese for fine furniture. Once the walnut gets shipped over there it's not coming back. If you've never spent any time there it's easy to assume that they're using it for exported products and from what I saw when I was there that just isn't the case.

I saw more Ferrari's in one day that I'd ever seen in my entire life when I stopped for lunch in Chongqing. There's a lot more money over there than the average Joe realizes.


----------



## bearkatwood

Well we should get some back over here by making some factories and producing good quality furniture here. Not the snap together kind either.


----------



## jmartel

> I m always floored at how anyone can charge $10-12/BF for lumber…
> 
> - PPK


Yep. $10 is about what it costs for normal FAS 4/4 Walnut here. Like Brian, I go to Crosscut in Seattle or Edensaw in Port Townsend. Cherry here is $7, Sapele is $6.75. Plain maple is about $4.60.

And as a point of reference, Ebony is usually in the $130-150/bf range, and the super curly koa is $100/bf. So Walnut is downright cheap comparatively.


----------



## bearkatwood

I usually order my wood in large amounts to get a business discount and spend a couple grand which will last me a few months worth of projects. Switching to saw making has really hit home. I m buying more premium lumber of course, but boy can it get pricey. I have an order in for cocobolo, white and black ebony, boxwood and some other stuff. Under 30bf in all but the total is over $1,000. Ouch!


----------



## jmartel

It might be worth looking at woodbarter.com. I know Red hasn't had good luck there, but so far I've had good experiences. I picked up a large flat rate box stuffed full of ebony for $50. Might be worth checking from time to time.


----------



## ToddJB

I only used woodbarter once and I didn't have a great experience either, I fully acknowledge that it's hard to gauge a site by one individual, but I haven't went back yet.


----------



## RPhillips

where do you guys here in Indy source lumber? I use Northwest, but would be great to find an alternative.


----------



## Sunstealer73

Side panel test fit looks good. Time to start sanding and pre-finishing the panels.


----------



## DanKrager

Those of you who are within 3 hrs drive from Olney IL might find it worth your time to come to Hites lumber. He's open to the public only on Sat am from 7am to 10 am or so when the short lineup is done buying. He's got the best prices anywhere for KD s3s 13/16 only in almost any domestic hardwood, the size of the stacks varies from week to week. He's got a 40×60 shed you drive through with shoulder high stacks. He's good at the kiln and I've only seen FAS in the stacks.

Don't call him unless you intend to buy a semi load. He's a wholesaler that happens to like crafters and tolerates them only on Sat morning! But his prices cannot be beat.

DanK


----------



## Sunstealer73

Got a lot done this weekend on the kitchen hutch. Glued up the side panels on Saturday, had to do a little leveling of the drawer slide supports, there was a very slight overhang of the legs:










My wife bought me a Veritas #4 plane for my birthday a couple of years ago. It's really an excellent and well-built tool. No plane I've ever used though performs like that old Stanley I found at a flea market. The blade was sharpened down almost to a nub, so I thought it might be a good user. It really does a great job.

Got the base glued up this afternoon. This was the most stressful glue-up I've ever done. So many joints to go together at the same time. It went OK though and I came in under the TB3 assembly time. Everything is level and square and it sits completely flat on the floor.










I'll be working on the frame-and-panel bottom for it this week. The Blum slides and traditional-style hinges should be here sometime this week so I can start on the drawers and doors. It will be my first time doing inset drawers and doors on a piece and my first time doing dovetails on something that matters. The drawer boxes will be poplar, so that's a little forgiving at least. I have some 6/4 that I'll be resawing down for the drawers.


----------



## Reinan

Got the drawer front fit and assembled, now all that's left do the drawer is to pilot hole and screw the face on from the back and to put a liner in the drawer bottom, thinking of using either black or brown leather. After that just routing some notches for the table top cleats and assembling, then onto finish.


----------



## CL810

Nice work Russ! I really like using the knot hole as a finger hole. It proves that wood is good, "defects" included.


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## Reinan

Actually, the knot is just for looks, I liked the feature on a board so I used it. The insides are too sharp and fragile for using as a pull, so I used an edge pull mortised into the top and back of the drawer front so I didn't distract from the drawer front.


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## bearkatwood

Nice contrast and the grain has something to say. 
That kitchen hutch is looking nice as well. Great projects folks


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## Sunstealer73

Some woodworkers avoid knots or imperfections. I try to use it just as it came from the tree when possible. The prettiest wood comes from the gnarliest looking boards sometimes. A couple of my suppliers have mentioned that I take boards that other people reject. I don't want bowed or twisted wood, but knots and weird grain don't bother me. Using the knothole in the center of the drawer was a great idea.

I sawed the side panels for this cabinet from a board that was in really bad shape. You could kind of see the grain was pretty, but it was hard to get square and still be able to get two 1/4" panels from. The lumberyard just threw it in for free on an order and it was the prettiest one in the order.


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## Reinan

Wow sunstealer, that is a beautiful piece of oak! Totally agree with you!

Any of you guys ever try lining a drawer with leather? I had originally though to just cut it to fit a glue it in, but now I'm thinking I might glue it to a substrate first and then just insert it. Thinking like 1/8" hardboard cut so I can friction fit it in after I wrap the leather around the edges. Anyone have any words of wisdom?


----------



## DanKrager

Reinan, only words of experience. I think you have a good idea to wrap a substrate, thus making it removable. The wisdom of experience is that things change, things wear out, things get damaged, and making corrective change easier is good. ...cause usually the builder is the one patching it up.

DanK


----------



## CL810

Flagged.

Edit - not you Dan! Crickett removed offending post.


----------



## CL810

The windsor chair is done.

The finish is two coats of red and two coats of black Real Milk Paint. Between each coat we applied shellac (1 lb. cut). The final coat was equal parts BLO-MS-poly brushed on and then wiped off after an hour.

It was a great learning experience thanks to my generous neighbor.


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## theoldfart

Andy, that's a fine piece of furniture. Beautifully done.


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## Hammerthumb

Awesome chair Andy!


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## bearkatwood

Pow! That is a fine looking chair you have there. Nice work.


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## CL810

Thanks guys. It was fun


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## woodcox

Wow Andy! Nice work. Good neighbor to have.


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## Sunstealer73

Nice chair, I'm still intimidated by them!


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## DanKrager

Wow, Andy. Well done.

DanK


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## Reinan

Nice job Andy, I'm in awe at the workmanship!


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## RPhillips

Very nice Windsor!

curious about the finish. Why did you apply apply the red coat under the black? Is it to show under the black in worn areas?

Also, why the shellac between coats. I have a project I want to use that paint on so I am very interest in your reply.


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## CL810

Rob, we used the shellac to prevent the paint being applied from dissolving the prior coat. We thinned the black paint so that areas of the chair look oxblood red more than black. As the black wears it will reveal the red.


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## 489tad

What a wonderful accomplishment building a Windsor. Next level stuff there. Benjamin Martin approved!


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## Sunstealer73

I got the frame and panel bottom for the kitchen hutch fitted this week and put a coat of shellac on all the interior parts. I worked yesterday on getting the drawer boxes built and fitted. I resawed down some 6/4 poplar into 1/2" pieces and then did hand cut through dovetails to join them all. I realized I don't have anything for the bottoms though, so I ordered some Baltic Birch 1/4 yesterday as well. This is my first time using the Blum Blumotion slides. The instructions are pretty intimidating, but everything works perfectly if you follow them exactly. Even without bottoms, I went ahead and installed the locking devices just to make sure everything works properly.










My dovetails always look good from the outside, but you sometimes see gaps from the inside. I assume I am chiseling too far past the baseline when that happens? Any tips on getting better on that part? I saw the waste with a fretsaw to about 1/16" away from the baseline. Then I take small bites with the chisel and finish with the blade directly in the baseline mark from knifing it. Maybe I just need more practice?


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## bearkatwood

That's it, practice. Lookin good so far


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## theoldfart

I'm back at the bench, finally! I figure carving will be a low impact activity and safe for a first effort.


----------



## TheFridge

Andy, magnificent work. Heirloom stuff fo sho. At least until one of the kids decide decide to burn because it's ugly and not modern 

Sun, I don't worry about the little gaps when they do show. I used to use a block to keep it perfect but eyeballing it is just way too fast. It gets better for me all the time.

TOF! It's about damn time 

I guess this qualifies as shop furniture


----------



## theoldfart

Fridge, I like. And your right. It is about damn time. Head doc says I'm good to go.

Progress


----------



## JayT

Finally got back to work on the desk top this weekend and got to probably my favorite part of any project, the first of many coats of finish (QS sycamore really absorbs and it takes a lot of coats to start to get a build). Even though you have a good idea of what the piece will look like, it's not until the finish goes on that you actually see.










And a couple shots that show the spalted QS sycamore better.


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## duckmilk

That chair looks intimidating to me Andy, but you did fine work on it!

Sun, the show sides of the dovetails are more important. Nice job!

Nice shop furniture Fridge. Mine are in an old canvas roll.



> Head doc says I m good to go.
> 
> - theoldfart


What do they know  Glad to hear you're good Kevin.

Love the desk top Jay.


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## CL810

The chairs are a lot of work. Comments are nice but remember, paint and a photograph hide a lot. Eventually looking to make something along the lines of Moser's Windsors.


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## bearkatwood

That would be a tough chair to replicate with the bent laminated continuous back/arm. A steam bend would be way easier I am sure. I personally like stretchers on a chair like that, but Mosers version has a simpler look to it. It is an iconic chair for sure.
Jay, Spalted quarter sawn sycamore and walnut yummy, not a bad look at all.
Hey, oldfart, can't wait to see that carving. Missed something, what happened. I hope you are ok.
Fridge, what kind of wood is that on the outside of the bit box, it is amazing. Nice way to keep those things, quite nice shop furnishing.


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## Reinan

Used 3m super 90 contact cement to attach the leather to a piece of 1/8 hardyboard, it's just a friction fit in the drawer so if, by chance, it ever needs replacement it can be removed and replaced.


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## CL810

Slick.


----------



## TheFridge

Thanks girls 

Nice jay. Love some tight ray flecking

Brian, meranti, luaun, one of those really porous mahogany wannabes but it has some ribbony goodness and looks great with pores filled (mostly  and garnet shellac.


----------



## Reinan

Here is the end table assembled with a wiped coat of shellac, I am going to put a couple more coats on the top and cut them back until the grain is filled on the top, then it will get sprayed with 2-3 coats of precat lacquer and she is ready for delivery!


















Fridge- luaun can be done beautifully, I refinished a piece that my great grandfather build around '60 out of luaun, I used amber shellac because it was the closest I could get to his original finish. I did not try to fill the grain because that isn't how he finished it originally from what I can deduce and remember. Here are a couple pics of it:


----------



## Reinan

My father-in-law texted me a listing this morning that he found on Facebook marketplace. We went and took a look and I decided to bring it home. Powermatic 54a in great shape for $450 with a roller base. The older gentleman selling it was super nice and very friendly, he was moving a couldn't take it with him.










I'm stoked, I've been looking for a good deal on a jointer for about 6 mos, missed quite a few, but finally succeeded.


----------



## CL810

Russ, you better lay low for a while so the cops don't get you for thiervery! ;-)


----------



## bearkatwood

Dang good deal on that.


----------



## Sunstealer73

I got the doors and drawer fronts fitted up this weekend for the hutch. Someone asked earlier about finishing. These pics are with one coat of Watco Dark Walnut Danish Oil. I'll let it cure for 3 days, then dewaxed shellac, then satin poly. It really makes the grain stand out on quarter sawn white oak.



















The doors are not perfectly bookmatched, but the grain is similar from outside in. The drawer fronts will be continuous grain from side to side across them. The drawer grain turned out wilder than I was expecting, it will definitely be a focal point for the base. The legs, stretchers, and aprons are all mostly rift-sawn, so fairly straight grained in comparison.

I ran out of QSWO making them, but was luckily going to be fairly close the Wall Lumber on Friday. I came back with a large load of lumber from them. It was my first time ever visiting them and it's definitely worth the trip if you're anywhere nearby. It's about 2 1/2 hours one way for me normally, but I'll definitely be going back. They have a huge showroom/warehouse and give you free reign to look around. Really nice guys too. I got 100bf of QSWO, all with great looking grain to them.


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## Reinan

That's looking amazing sunstealer!


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## therealSteveN

> Why has the price of walnut skyrocketed in recent years? Disease? Is someone vacuuming up the supply?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Google about 1000 cankers disease, it's a fungus that effects Walnut

I like TraylorPark, am also in Ohio, and here, there is an abundance of Walnut still, and prices while higher than the past are still often well below the 10 to 20 dollar bd/ft I see others talking about. Of the good stock, and much of the really high quality, and figured Walnut, like Oak, Cherry, and other sound domestics is being sold off to the Japanese, and Chinese, where they treasure it at a much higher price than we do. Even Europe with it's financial woes buys up a lot of the good stuff. Americans are cheeep bastiages for the most part, it's why harbor freight sells more tools than many others combined.


----------



## therealSteveN

> While I love me some Hand planes, Workbenches, Tool boxes and the like….my primary objective in woodworking is furniture making. I just wanna make quality furniture, and lots of it!
> 
> So I thought it would be cool to have a forum on the subject of furniture making. We can post questions, techniques, and progress of our current builds…..anything to do with building and designing furniture. We can post just for fun, or in hopes we learn something from each other along the way.
> 
> Here s one my personal favorites, it s a walnut bookcase I made for my wife.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I m a hobbyist furniture maker myself, albeit a serious one. If you want to read more about me, you can find my LJ interview here: http://lumberjocks.com/CricketW/blog/42010
> 
> And my website/blog: www.westfallwoodcraft.com
> 
> Otherwise, here s some furniture and furniture maker sites we can draw inspiration from.
> http://www.doucetteandwolfefurniture.com/
> http://www.thejoinery.com/
> http://stephenevansfurniture.com/
> http://www.michaelfortune.com/home.html
> http://www.kelloggfurniture.com/
> http://schurchwoodwork.com
> http://www.thomashuckerstudio.com/html/home.html
> http://www.amanashops.com/category/amana-furniture-shop
> http://www.stickley.com/
> http://www.thosmoser.com/
> http://www.mark-ripley.com/
> http://www.finefurnituremaker.com/
> http://www.furnituremaker.com/
> http://www.mattdownerdesigns.com/bedgal.html
> http://www.chbecksvoort.com/
> http://www.thwink.org/personal/images/ImagesArtFurniture.htm
> http://www.andrewpittsfurnituremaker.com/
> http://www.josephwalshstudio.com/
> http://www.theunpluggedwoodshop.com/
> http://davidbarronfurniture.co.uk/david_barron_furniture.asp
> http://www.kagenschaefer.com/
> http://www.brianboggschairmakers.com/
> http://www.meetsebastian.com/
> http://silaskopf.com/
> davidboefffurnituremaker.blogspot.com
> https://www.ligneusstudios.com/
> http://www.philipmorleyfurniture.com/custom-furniture.html
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Dave Diaman while smaller than Moser does great work too, and could easily be an addition to your list.


----------



## bearkatwood

Some hot stuff there, crazy ray fleck oak and the arches on that bookcase. Whoa!


----------



## CL810

^ +1

I've had really great results from The Anarchist's Daughter's wax. Several thoughts though keep running in my head.

Why does it bring out the richness of the wood so well? Is it the turpentine in the wax? Are there other waxes out there that produce similar or better results?

I would like to hear other thoughts on this.

Renaissance wax does not have the same effect on wood that this does. It seems to be more for just protecting what finish is already there.

Here's a shaker music box I just made. Watco's danish oil and wax. Wish I had taken a before and after along the way, but did not.

Edit: On my computer screen this photo does not do the wax finish justice. Hope it shows up better on your screen.


----------



## DanKrager

Cl810, that is too pretty for words! Awesome. Can't answer your questions though…

DanK


----------



## duckmilk

That is a cool music box Andy! Great idea! What song does it play?


----------



## CL810

I think the title is "Simple Gifts." A Shaker song.


----------



## 489tad

Beautiful Shaker box. Is there a blog on it?


----------



## CL810

No, haven't done one.


----------



## Sunstealer73

I'm reading "The Joiner and Cabinet Maker" right now. There's a few recipes for wax and other old finishes. Wonder if his daughter's wax took inspiration from those? Johnson's paste wax also has a strong turpentine smell.


----------



## Sunstealer73

I now know why inset doors and drawers are considered quality work. I spent about 4 hours getting my hinges and gaps right today. It's still not perfect, but it's the best I can do. The bottom is getting really close now. I need to scuff down the shellac and then put a few coats of satin clear on it.










I'll be starting the top of it soon. What's the traditional way to attach the top to the bottom? I have one older kitchen cabinet that just has metal straps connecting the two. I'm not sure if that's the way it was typically done or not though?


----------



## CL810

Looks awesome Sunstealer!


----------



## DanKrager

Sunstealer, the traditional top attachment for solid wood tops that have to move about seasonally is with metal Z straps that engage a 1/8" groove about 1/4-3/8" below the top. These hold it tightly but allow movement. Often a small wooden block with a tongue to engage the groove is used instead.

That is a beautiful piece, SS.

DanK


----------



## Sunstealer73

> Sunstealer, the traditional top attachment for solid wood tops that have to move about seasonally is with metal Z straps that engage a 1/8" groove about 1/4-3/8" below the top. These hold it tightly but allow movement. Often a small wooden block with a tongue to engage the groove is used instead.
> 
> That is a beautiful piece, SS.


Thanks, I guess I wasn't clear on what I meant though. I use the metal fasteners for the flat top like you refer to. What I meant was for the shelf unit I'll be building that will sit on top of this bottom section. It will be a dovetailed carcase with another set of doors. I guess you would call it a hutch?

The plans I got the dimensions from have a slot in the top and then the upper piece has a rabbet that sits in the slot. I don't really care for that idea, but maybe that's how it is normally done?


----------



## DanKrager

OK. I misunderstood. The pieces like you describe that I have done repair work on were all screwed down one way or another. Many of them had "feet", a wide block of wood that was part of the upper unit gives a surface that can receive screw traction. Some from top side and others were from bottom side.

DanK


----------



## Reinan

I did a unit with a shelf unit on top a bottom cabinet box a few years back, but didn't want the look of traditional feet on the sides of the inside, so I made a jig out of angle iron to drill it and used 3 pins on each side about 3" long of 1/4 all-thread as dowels. It worked for my purposes.


----------



## CL810

I had some trim on a cupboard I needed to match and to make a long story short Combo Prof pointed me in the direction of scratch stock being an option. I ordered proper size files from McMaster Carr along with some sharpening stones. After watching Garrett Hack's video on FWW I made a scratch stock.

Here is what I was going for and what I ended up with:

EDIT: lol, I have to get new glasses. This photo shows a scratch I had accidentally made on the center bead that I thought I had gotten rid of until I posted this pic.










This pic shows the scratch stock. One lesson learned is when the scratch extends very far from the stock, the pressure exerted causes the end to rise causing a deeper cut close to the stock. It was a constant battle and on this first attempt, I lost.










I really liked how this worked. I had no tearout compared with what I sometimes get with my 45. I'm sure that says more about my skills than the tools, but it is what it is. I look forward to using this more in the future.


----------



## Mosquito

Looks great! I've been telling myself I need to make scratch stock for more things, but haven't yet lol


----------



## builtinbkyn

> I had some trim on a cupboard I needed to match and to make a long story short Combo Prof pointed me in the direction of scratch stock being an option. I ordered proper size files from McMaster Carr along with some sharpening stones. After watching Garrett Hack s video on FWW I made a scratch stock.
> 
> Here is what I was going for and what I ended up with:
> 
> EDIT: lol, I have to get new glasses. This photo shows a scratch I had accidentally made on the center bead that I thought I had gotten rid of until I posted this pic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This pic shows the scratch stock. One lesson learned is when the scratch extends very far from the stock, the pressure exerted causes the end to rise causing a deeper cut close to the stock. It was a constant battle and on this first attempt, I lost.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really liked how this worked. I had no tearout compared with what I sometimes get with my 45. I m sure that says more about my skills than the tools, but it is what it is. I look forward to using this more in the future.
> 
> - CL810


I've never done beading by hand so take it for what it's worth. Can you bead the stock before making the rabbets? Also clamp the stock in a way that doesn't interfere with the beading plane?


----------



## CL810

Yes, and that is what I did. I just took the picture after I did that. And I'm laughing at my picture now. Here's a better pic of work in progress.


----------



## duckmilk

I have a question Andy, when you start the scratch, do you start at the far end of your stroke like you do when making mouldings?


----------



## CL810

Duck, yes you do. The only variation is that with scratch stock you can use a push or pull stroke. So, if you're doing a pull stroke you start closer to yourself and with a push you would start at the far end. I think the best answer is you always start at the far end of the down grain. I'm just doing this for the first time so take anything with a grain of salt. )


----------



## builtinbkyn

> Yes, and that is what I did. I just took the picture after I did that. And I m laughing at my picture now. Here s a better pic of work in progress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - CL810


Ah OK thanks Andy. Different pics can tell a different tale lol That makes so much more sense than the first pic.


----------



## DLK

Looks great Andy. I am very excited that it worked for you. If you fix the scratch in the middle between two handles like a spoke shave, but with a fence (see the Stanley beading plane) it will be easier to put even pressure across the scratch.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Sunstealer - that is an awesome job.

Been on hiatus for a while, finally normal weather for garage shop work. Making a stand-up desk, the desk top is a box with a lift-top, like a really old school desk. The top was going to be bookmatched, but when I put the pieces together I didn't like it. I'm a big fan of symmetry and not doing weird stuff but I did something that was risky - I offset the bookmatched peices. Not by a lot, but mesquite is such a crazy wood, it seemed unnatural to have all those imperfections "perfectly" aligned in an even bookmatch.

Because I didn't know what the boards would look like when I took a slab to the bandsaw for a resaw, I made sure it was way longer than my final dimension of 24". Forest Gump was wrong - a mesquite slab is like a box of chocolates. You have no clue what you're getting until you cut it open.

After I cut it and was looking at the two pieces, I looked at the boards aligned and then I shifted the top and bottom to one side and the other and thought - screw it, I'm gonna cut the ends off differently for each board. I still wanted enough grain integrity so that it didn't look way off. I asked my wife - does this look stupid? She said she liked the offset better. Trust me, she has no problem calling something stupid.

This is how it turned out. There will be breadboard ends, everything here is just laying together, nothing glued, no cracks epoxied yet, etc.










I liked how it turned out. Would I do this all the time? No way. But mesquite can look like the surface of Jupiter, honestly, I don't think it matters here.


----------



## DanKrager

I think your instincts about the offset were right CT. It'll be interesting to see it finished.

DanK


----------



## DLK

I am not sure I completely followed your discussion, but whatever you did I like the looks of it. Sometimes I think we over calculate, over measure and over plan. Sometimes you just need to step back and look to see what looks good to your eyes (or perhaps your wifes). Well done.


----------



## DLK

I am not sure I completely followed your discussion, but whatever you did I like the looks of it. Sometimes I think we over calculate, over measure and over plan. Sometimes you just need to step back and look to see what looks good to your eyes (or perhaps your wifes). Well done.


----------



## JayT

Desk is done and at work being used. Base is an old Hamilton drafting table.










And the reason for going this route-it's sit/stand capable with the drafting base being electric and controlled by the two silver pedals.










(Sorry for the crappy pics. The cubicle isn't big enough to get good distance and perspective.)


----------



## ColonelTravis

Awesome desk top JayT.



> I am not sure I completely followed your discussion
> - Combo Prof


Sorry, it was confusing. This is what it would have looked like (kinda) if I had bookmatched it normally.










The reason I didn't keep it like that is because every mesquite board is so bizarre, it seemed weird to make it perfectly symmetrical. At the same time, I didn't want the two boards to not compliment each other, so I didn't want to shift them too much. If I were doing this with most any other wood, I would have kept it perfectly bookmatched.


----------



## DLK

O.K….Hmmm… I think either looks nice. But now you have me wanting to get my hands on some mesquite.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Come on down to Texas, Don. I'll show you some killer BBQ and mesquite trees!


----------



## DLK

Maybe I will do that next year. Where are you? (You can P.M. the details.)

In this Paull Sellers Video he shows how to sharpen a Stanley 50 iron for scraping.
Then he proceeds to smooth some mesquite. Coincidence?


----------



## Mosquito

Desk is cool Jay. I've been wanting to make myself a sit/stand desk for home


----------



## JayT

Thanks guys.

Mos, I looked at all the readily available ones out there for a while and was turned off by the many reports of the entry level ones' motors failing after just a year or so. The better ones just cost too much for my taste. At some point, I saw an internet post where someone had used a drafting table and came up with this one for $150. It's far sturdier and more powerful than the desk kits that are out there, too.

Just took a look on your area's CL and here's one of a very similar model to mine. At that price, you might want to jump quick.

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ram/fuo/d/drafting-table-with-height/6534956325.html

This is the base I really wanted, just didn't want to pay the price. The fact that the ad is still up months after I first saw it says no one else does either.


----------



## CL810

I started this cupboard in December. It was put on hold when the opportunity to build the Windsor chair happened. To me this project seems like the never ending one because I've been wanting to do it for about 2 years and other projects or life kept interfering. With this dry fit today, I'm beginning to think it just may happen.










It is based on this cupboard that was purchased by my great-great grandfather. I estimate between 1865 and 1885. He was a tobacco farmer in Kentucky and family lore has that he took a wagon of tobacco to town and came home with this, a new dress and shoes for his wife.


----------



## theoldfart

Wow Andy, that's going to be beautiful.


----------



## summerfi

You're doing some fine work, Andy.


----------



## jmartel

Nicely done, Andy. That's going to look great when finished.


----------



## DLK

Andy, that looks great!


----------



## CL810

Thanks guys, I'm getting anxious but we have a lot going on these next few months so I hope i can keep it moving forward.


----------



## DanKrager

Well, CL810, you've done it some more. OK, you're doing it some more! But it will be finished very soon now. What a great project! You gonna keep up tradition and put a new dress and new shoes in it for your wife?

DanK


----------



## DanKrager

This little project has held my attention for several weeks. I put a LOT into this little table. Used hand tools, but power tools were not excluded. Everything but the top is literally a puzzle in how it goes together and cannot physically come apart, even if all the glue fails completely. The top is a "loose" top, secured with Z-clips. The short (12") full extension drawer glides have self closing mechanism. Looked high and low for those! And the middle drawer has a secret. QSWO with golden oak stain per client request. The bottom shelf is open to the back, and there is a 2" high open "slot" in back just below the top rail for cord exits, neither of which is shown in the picture. Rubbed lacquer.


















DanK


----------



## Hammerthumb

Very nice Dan. I like the double drawer in the center.


----------



## PPK

What? has it really been 2 weeks since anybody has made anything?? Lol.
Happy Easter all!

Great looking work, Sunstealer, Reinan, and CL810!

I finished my cabinetry project - not exactly furniture, so I'll just post a link ;-)
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/372249


----------



## PPK

Nvmd about the 2 weeks comment. My browser didn't update. Man, I've got a lotta catching up to do!


----------



## TheFridge

Andy, that's what I think of when I think heirloom.

JayT, that desk deserves a bigger cubicle.

CT, some nice wood you have there 

I've only been able to squeeze out a small box lately. Too much side work. Though that side work might purchase a mini mill at the end, ive got a ways to go. Got a performax 16/32 for 290$ Total after buying a new conveyor belt. Only has a couple hours of use. I likes so far. A trailer load of 8/4 rift/qtr sawn red oak was a bonus. A feel a new workbench coming. I've outgrown my 48"x20".


----------



## Sunstealer73

Still working on the kitchen cupboard/hutch. The bottom is completely finished and moved into the house now to free up some shop space. I've been working on the top for the past couple of weeks. It's solid white oak with a frame and panel back with ship lapped boards for the back.

The back was the toughest part for me, I've never done that setup before. It turned out really nice though. I wanted a bead detail between the joints, but I ordered the wrong beading bit. I ordered 1/4", but it is 1/4" radius, so actually 1/2" bead. It worked, but it's more of a chamfer than a bead. It actually gives it a paneling look, which is pretty cool I think.

The inside of the top and the part of the back that shows under the hutch is just a couple of coats of super blonde shellac. The rest of the outside parts will be stained and finished like the bottom.

Here's the front with all the main pieces finished, just needs finish and doors.










Close-up of the back boards.










The ship lapped boards wanted to bow a little towards the center. It wasn't much, but it kept bothering me. I decided to put a batten across the back to keep the mostly aligned. The batten holes are slotted so the slats can move a little. I doubt I'll do ship laps again, I'll do tongue and groove from now for this type of panel.










The doors are stained and I'll be sanding down the door frames tonight and hopefully doing some assembly by middle of next week.


----------



## PPK

Purty, Sunstealer! That's QSWO, right? It's really colorful - i like it! The coloration almost looks like hickory from a distance.

Fridge "feels a new workbench coming soon".... uh oh.


----------



## Sunstealer73

> Purty, Sunstealer! That s QSWO, right? It s really colorful - i like it! The coloration almost looks like hickory from a distance.
> 
> Fridge "feels a new workbench coming soon".... uh oh.
> 
> - PPK


Yep, I used the more "interesting" boards for the back with the black streaks, knot holes, etc.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Wuddup fellers. I'm still making a few things myself. My cousin requested one of those glass river/live edge tables for her wedding gift. So, here I go…


















That's a plywood template for the glass. The hackberry slab should work. I found it in a sawmill burn pile.


----------



## TheFridge

Love me some elm.


----------



## CFrye

What color of glass, Red? Will that be dining table or coffee table sized? Can't quite tell.


----------



## Sunstealer73

I always wondered how those were made. So you cut the glass to fit the opening between the pieces?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'm pretty sure it's hackberry, but elm is very similar.

It's a coffee table. The glass will be blueish. Hoping for something like this, with metal legs:










I plan to have the glass cut, then spread the slabs a bit, and use the glass as the template with a pattern router bit.


----------



## RPhillips

Time to get out the resin Red!


----------



## Sunstealer73

Finally finished the country kitchen cupboard and hutch:



It's the biggest project I've even done (that wasn't a building) and I'm the happiest with it of any project.


----------



## Reinan

Wow Sunstealer, that turned out just awesome! Congrats on the gorgeous piece, I love the color you chose, really highlights the oak without looking dated.


----------



## bearkatwood

Fabulous, very nice work indeed.


----------



## JayT

Catching up.

The hutch came out very nice, sunstealer

Red, I'm looking forward to seeing the finished table. Always great to see what can be made from pieces of wood that many wouldn't even try to do something with.

I'm starting on a simple bookshelf to go with the desk at work. Since I lost the drawers and return, something was needed for storage. Decided to do a subtle curve on the legs, so out came the #20 to clean up and match the bandsaw roughouts. There's five legs in the clamps. Gotta have a spare, just in case.


----------



## bearkatwood

I had one of those planes and I busted the mechanism. Need to get another  I like bookshelves, plenty of room for design. Look forward to what you come up with.


----------



## RPhillips

> Catching up.
> 
> The hutch came out very nice, sunstealer
> 
> Red, I m looking forward to seeing the finished table. Always great to see what can be made from pieces of wood that many wouldn t even try to do something with.
> 
> I m starting on a simple bookshelf to go with the desk at work. Since I lost the drawers and return, something was needed for storage. Decided to do a subtle curve on the legs, so out came the #20 to clean up and match the bandsaw roughouts. There s five legs in the clamps. Gotta have a spare, just in case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - JayT


1… 2… 3.. 4… 5.

...5 Legs?

Smart!


----------



## theoldfart

I can attest to the wisdom of five legs when the legs require hand shaping! DAMHIK


----------



## Reinan

Working on a mother's day present for my bride, I did the design, cutting, and glue up, but our daughter is helping sand and finish. It's a simple crate style caddy for my wife's 45 records out of QS Sycamore.


----------



## JayT

Dry fit on the book shelf.


----------



## theoldfart

Going to look awesome Jay, I'm a sucker for curved legs.


----------



## jmartel

Russ, did you put a stain on that? The sycamore I've seen has always been much lighter than that.

Looks nice from here. I like the diagonal grain on the end.


----------



## Reinan

> Russ, did you put a stain on that? The sycamore I ve seen has always been much lighter than that.
> 
> Looks nice from here. I like the diagonal grain on the end.
> 
> - jmartel


Nope, no stain, just a quick wipe of a 50/50 mix of MS and BLO. I'll give it a quick wipe or two shellac to seal it before I'll spray it with poly.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Before the river table was done, my brother-in-law and I have been working on a pro quality uh…board gaming table. Complete with lighting, a super nice felt playing surface, wireless phone chargers, outlets, dice/piece holders, and cup holders.

Ya, he's really into them. He won some thing that was like the world series of board gaming last year. You can see all the games that were part of his prize in the background. I'll work on a blog when I get a chance.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Before the river table was done, my brother-in-law and I have been working on a pro quality uh…board gaming table. Complete with lighting, a super nice felt playing surface, wireless phone chargers, outlets, dice/piece holders, and cup holders.
> 
> Ya, he s really into them. He won some thing that was like the world series of board gaming last year. You can see all the games that were part of his prize in the background. I ll work on a blog when I get a chance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Ask him if he's been to Dallas. There's a huge board game convention here every fall. It's gotten so huge they're doing one in the spring now. I've been a few times. I am not into board games like he is, but if he asked me to play X, Y, or Z, I'd probably say yes. Great table.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Stand-up desk build, I can finally see the finish line. The desk box is not glued up, the bottom hasn't been put in, drawbore pegs on the base not cut, need to plane down the box side edges to meet the front, lot of rough stuff not refined, the top and breadboards are in the garage, etc. OK, maybe the finish line is far away. But it's closer than it was a few months ago. Just brought it inside to see what it looked like inside, moving it around to different rooms to see where it might go.

90% hand tool, 10% bandsaw.


----------



## PPK

Nice work, Kernal! 
I had forgot you were working on that… I'm really digging the gussets, as well as the bead on the bottom of the skirt. That really sets it off from your "standard" desk!


----------



## ColonelTravis

Everything is from the mind of Jim Tolpin, not me. Learned a lot. I was excited to get this wrapped up but as of last night I am on a brief hiatus after cutting a finger pretty bad. Not from working in the garage. That would have made it more interesting - yeah, real blood went into that desk!

Nah.

In the kitchen trying to separate frozen meatballs with a knife. Not gonna go into detail, the finger is still there, wasn't a big slice but it was a bad one.

Idiot….


----------



## theoldfart

Meatballs do call for red sauce!
Glad it wasn't real bad.


----------



## derekcohen

I haven't posted for a while. Here is the current state of my latest project, an apothecary chest. This one has a curved front, and will have 24 drawers, all dovetailed curved fronts. In black walnut.



















Link to the builds: scan down the index page to Apothecary Chest …

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/index.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## JADobson

Looks beautiful Derek - I lurk on the other site and have been following this one closely.


----------



## bobasaurus

That's a beautiful piece of furniture Derek. Will the drawer dovetails be half-blind? Making matching curved fronts seems hard.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Derek - love your builds and the posts explaining everything along the way. Hadn't seen this one, thanks for linking to it.


----------



## jmartel

> That s a beautiful piece of furniture Derek. Will the drawer dovetails be half-blind? Making matching curved fronts seems hard.
> 
> - bobasaurus


Not sure how Derek is doing it, but an easy way to go about it would be to use thicker stock and cut the curve in the front. Use a template and a router with a guide bit to get most of it. Smooth the rest with a spokeshave if the bit won't get it all in 2 passes.


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen

Lovely project Derek! Read your posts and as usual you set a high standard. Looking forward to read about all the drawers.
Thanks for sharing!


----------



## derekcohen

That s a beautiful piece of furniture Derek. Will the drawer dovetails be half-blind? Making matching curved fronts seems hard.
- bobasaurus

Not sure how Derek is doing it, but an easy way to go about it would be to use thicker stock and cut the curve in the front. Use a template and a router with a guide bit to get most of it. Smooth the rest with a spokeshave if the bit won't get it all in 2 passes.

I have done this before. So, fit a solid/squared drawer front, square the angled ends to avoid the dovetails having to be compound angles, cut the half-blind dovetails, then shape the drawer fronts to fit the curve of the case.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Handtooler

Derek, That is a magnificent piece of furniture! You are really a MASTER Craftsman. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Question about slide-out shelves. I'm making them for my stand-up desk, designed by Jim Tolpin. But I don't fully understand what he did with the shelves, even with his magazine article (PWW #223 Feb. 2016) and Sketchup plans. Yes, I am that lame. I emailed him about it but I also wanted to ask here in case he couldn't get back to me any time soon.

So here's the desk top, and you can see where the pull-out shelf is, at the bottom of the box. I am doing two pull-out shelves, one on each side:










Here is a blow out of the components of a shelf side guide:










And here is looking underneath the desk top, where you can see how the guides and shelves have been placed.










Forgot to mention, the base of the desk includes two boards (wide runners) that the shelf board will slide over.

My confusion comes with the side guides. Why is the narrow guide attached to small blocks and those small blocks are then attached to the box side, vs. just having a wider side guide? Does that make sense? Essentially, why is it a three-piece vs. 1-piece?

This is what it's supposed to end up looking like.
Candles sold separately.


----------



## DanKrager

I can't see any real reason for the short pieces other than being spacers to help position the guide for fastening. In that case the spacers could be just temporary and removed after guides secured. The savings in material and weight is negligible and it doesn't remove the expansion contraction issue, so…ya, why not one piece?

DanK


----------



## ColonelTravis

I'm with you, Dan. No clue.

Also just noticed there is no stop to prevent the shelf from being yanked all the way out, I think I ought to put one on there.


----------



## DanKrager

Good idea. You could cut a sprung splinter into the guide that falls into a notch in the shelf. The splinter would be near the end of the guide where the shelf exits and the notch in the shelf near the rear. To release the engagement, you would slide a slim stick along the edge of the shelf to depress the splinter enough to pass the notch. Little fussing to make it work right, but easy. Maybe a ball detent on each side would be enough.

DanK


----------



## PPK

Perhaps its 3 pc design so that you could remove the guides and plane them down a bit if they expand and make the shelves stick?? Are they fastened in place? IDK otherwise.

I just ordered some candles and followers today to go with a little shelf project I'm making for my DW… I don't think it'll be as awesome as your piece though.


----------



## bondogaposis

My confusion comes with the side guides. Why is the narrow guide attached to small blocks and those small blocks are then attached to the box side, vs. just having a wider side guide?

I think the answer is pretty simple, he had some narrow stock to use up and made the spacers and strips instead of a wider piece. I often look for uses of narrow strips in my work, because they tend to build up in my shop over time. That is my guess, and it does save a bit of weight.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Aha, Bondo, I bet that's it.


----------



## bearkatwood

Just got home after a week back in Virginia making a Boggs rocker with teacher Jeff Lefkowitz. It was an amazing class. 



























When I was gluing it together one arm broke off and we needed a replacement arm made. 15 minutes later we were back in bizz.














































I made mine from Cherry with the hickory bark seat. He is shipping the chair back to me and I had him put enough bark in to do another seat. I plan to make a second one for my wife.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Awesome, Brian. Sounds like you also did that weave?


----------



## TheFridge

Hell yeah. Mo' Hair expert level weaves.


----------



## bearkatwood

I did do the weaving and Jeff told me stories of being in the shop with students until 7pm finishing it. We started at 8 and 3.5 hours later I was done. Jeff said I wove the seat as fast as he could, so I was a little pumped to hear that.


----------



## PPK

Wow, that's a looker! Do you use hide glue on something like that? Or is the crock pot in the background for nachos? 

Dang, that's so cool. Is the hickory bark green still? Do you wet it to get it to bend?


----------



## bearkatwood

Didn't try a chip with the stuff in the pot, it was too stinky  All hide glue for this chair which was good because if I had used PVA and the arm broke I would have been screwed. We soaked the bark the night before and then misted it as we wove. It turned my hands yellow.


----------



## PPK

Hope this warms your lumber jock hearts the way it does mine: my 5 month old son was crabby so i decided what the heck, he may as well be crabby out in the shop with me. Plopped him down and started planing. He started laughing and stopped crying. Guess planing is as therapeutic for babies as it is adults!


----------



## PPK

Oops, posting from the phone rotated my picture… here's a right side up one


----------



## PPK

Here's what I'm working on, btw. Present for my wife's b-day. Hope I get it done in time!


----------



## JayT

Sharp plane, PPK, shaved the hair right off that head. 

I've said before that if the world had more hand planes and bubble wrap, there would be a lot less anger issues.

Shelf looks good, too.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Adorbs Pete. I'm sure you don't want to read a lame "be careful" post, but the scariest moment I ever had in my shop was when my daughter was on my bench next to me in one of those strapped in wire baby bouncy thingys. We were hanging out doing hand work when her older sister tried to step up on the lower shelf of the bench and see….when she accidentally pulled her baby sister off the bench!!! By the grace of God the bouncy thing landed on it's base, saving our baby from the cement floor. I was done in the shop for that day.

Anyway, the river table wedding gift was delivered last weekend. Not something I'd have in my house, but those darn millennial loved it. 


























In case you've never seen a big red ogre dominate a dance floor…lawlz


----------



## derekcohen

That's a beautiful chair, Brian. I would love to do a workshop like that.

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## derekcohen

Here are the two most recent articles on my apothecary build …

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ApothecaryChestWeekend7.html

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ApothecaryChestWeekend8.html

Current status …










Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## PPK

Oof, thanks for the heads up, Red. I'll be carefull! I work for a big company where we have safety moments at the beginning of every meeting… It's a good practice, even if the topic is not really "relevant" to anybody, it helps to keep one's mind in the mode of working safely. Safety is never too old or worn out to bring up. Thanks.

Fantastic work, Derek!!


----------



## ColonelTravis

Look at Big Red tower over the dance floor, overpowering everyone and knocking down little kids who dare to get in his way!

Pete - your son appears to be a master mortiser.

Just a follow-up about runners for a pull-out shelf on the desk I'm making, if you scroll up there are diagrams. Jim Tolpin told me whoever made the Sketchup design was an idiot. Welllllllllllllllllll, technically, those are my words. He's not a jerk. Anyway, he wasn't sure why it showed up that way in Sketchup. He did use one wide board as a runner on each side.


----------



## CL810

A lot of awesome stuff on this thread.

Brian is there anything you can't do??

PPK raising future woodworker the right way!

Awesome work Derek as always.

Red, Well done on the table. I can see that it would appeal to some people. However, what I see in that photo is responsible parents on the sidelines keeping an eye on the old man dancing with little girls. ;-)


----------



## bearkatwood

keep up with orders 
Thanks Red, now I have a desire to go watch Shrek again.
Derek, I should tell David Douyard he should head to your neck of the woods to teach some classes. Pete Galbert was there a few years back and did a number on Bern Chandley.


----------



## CL810

Time to raise prices!


----------



## bearkatwood

Nah, I just announced I wouldn't make any more saws. I have furniture stuff I want to do and next year I will start teaching.


----------



## CL810

I'm starting to think I will finish this project. Glued up the sliding dovetail shelves today. I applied the finish before assembly as an experiment. Never done it before that way but it seemed to make sense on this project. Will see.

Next up are installing the hinges on the doors and face frame, fit drawer and final assembly.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Andy very nice. Good call on finishing.


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, I'm having trouble deciphering the portholes! It looks like they are framed in on the far side, some special feature?

So far it looks beautiful.


----------



## DanKrager

10-4 on good prefinishing call. I'm doing that with a student and so far so good.

I'm betting those port holes let sound out….or air in …in case he locks himself in the cubby.

DanK


----------



## CL810

The original piece I am "copying" had the screen framed in on the inside. I have assumed it was to provide airflow for baked goods cooling or linens that were still damp. Not sure how it was suppose to be used. It does not strike me as a pie safe (punched tin panels) and the linen presses I've seen do not have holes for air movement. Hybrid?

Edit: Dan, maybe they put their kids in there?


----------



## TheFridge

My kids would chew through that. Anything less than 5/4 won't hold them for an hour.


----------



## DanKrager

I was seriously thinking that you might be putting computer or audio equipment in the cavities, and they need to breathe. With intake on the sides and exhaust on top, it can sit against the wall with no worries.

Lookin' good!

DanK


----------



## JayT

Finally got the bookshelf to the office to go with the desk.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Awesome, JayT. Is that a transition plane way back there?


----------



## JayT

Yep. I have some planes on display in the cubicle. A couple are tied to the company I work for, a few are ones that are harder to find and a couple are just because. That one is a Union Trask Patent #542. It's got the same blade adjustment mechanism as the X type, but without the post and screws. Manufacture date would have been around 1905.

Here's what you'd see from my desk if the monitors weren't in the way.










There's also a Metallic Plane Co adjustable mouth jointer from around 1870 next to the Union. The tranny on the top shelf is a pre-lateral Stanley #34, type 6, from around 1880. Those are all original, including intact totes on the trannys, amazingly enough.


----------



## ColonelTravis

I've seen a lot of office cubes, never that kind of plane assortment in one. Yours wins first prize.


----------



## Mosquito

if I had a more permanent cube, I'd totally do something like that as well Jay. That's cool. Get many conversations out of it?


----------



## PPK

Anybody got a good solution for hanging a shelf on a wall "blind" ? What I mean by blind is hanging it without drilling thru the shelf anywhere. Hardware has to be on the backside, and hook onto screw/nail in the wall. I want the shelf to be tight against the wall, no gap. I don't really trust those little zig zag picture hangers to hold the weight. It's gonna have some heavier statues/nick nacks on it…


----------



## JADobson

Will these work for you?
http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=51933&cat=3,43648,43649


----------



## PPK

> Will these work for you?
> http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=51933&cat=3,43648,43649
> 
> - JADobson


Hmm… they could. I've never seen those. The shelf I'm making will look kind of like this:


----------



## JADobson

I've never used them but the write up says you need an inch thick shelf to drill into. Doesn't look like you have an inch in that picture though you might be able to go through the top and the corbel to get the thickness. Probably have to cut down the support though.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> Will these work for you?
> http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=51933&cat=3,43648,43649
> 
> - JADobson


You still have to drill to use those pegs? haha
Those blind shelf 'pegs' work pretty well if you have enough wood. Suggest the addition of screw to help prevent shelf from sliding off accidentally (especially if you have kids). I drilled a small hole on bottom, add an threaded insert, and used a standard set screw to keep it hidden and secure.

Another option is hidden/recessed cleat. Many derivations possible.

Option A) Mill a french cleat into the backing board (plus clearance below for unit to slide down). Mount matching cleat on wall. This is my preference. If wall is flat, mount is flat.

Option B) Requires screws added from top or bottom of shelf, but not from exposed front face.
Screw a piece of 1×2 wood to wall. Make backing board thick enough 1.125" to cut a recess for the cleat to hide inside the back. Use a couple of screws either down from top of shelf or up from bottom to attach shelf unit to cleat. This option better allows for slight wall imperfections.
Can buy mass produced wall shelves that use this concept. Except the use ~2 inch thick top shelf that is a sandwich of 1/4" thick top and bottom veneer plates with junk filler wood in middle, all trimmed with molding on edges. They use 1.5 inch cleat mounted to wall that extends same into shelf.

Option B) Use a french cleat recessed into wall. 
This requires mounting cleat to studs with dry wall partially removed. Would be really ugly if/when shelf is removed. BUT it would allow hidden mounting. Have seen this method used in old lathe/plaster homes by late 1800's craftsmen for hanging bookshelves or deco boxes high on wall.

Best Luck!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I use keyhole mounting plates for shelves like that. Mortise the recess. I like that they slide onto the screw, that way they shelf wont easily fall if someone bumps into it. Or….. when an oversized ogre repeatedly hits his head on the shelf while installing flooring…lol.


----------



## PPK

I think I got it figured out. Thanks for all the tips! I found some metal hook things in my shop that were left over from something or other and did some *********************************** engineering. Actually pretty similar to what Red linked.










Finished Product:


----------



## bondogaposis

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a pile of wood. A wise person said something like that. This is my next journey, a Mackintosh table. My inspiration comes from two sources, one, Mackintosh Furniture by Michael Crow and, two, Arts and Crafts Furniture Anyone Can Make by David Thiel. In the Michael Crow book he has measured drawings of the original Hill House Table and in the David Thiel book he has a scaled down and simplified version of the same table. I like the scaled down version for it's size and proportions, but some of the construction details are a bit over simplified for my taste so I intend to build the scaled down version using the original construction methods with some exceptions. I am also going to modernize it a bit by using painted poplar for the base. I have a couple of fantastic sequential sycamore boards that I can book match for the top. Here is a picture from the book and here is my pile of wood that is milled to dimension and ready to go for the base.


----------



## rad457

The kind of furniture I get to make. Special request from a friend of my Daughter.


----------



## PPK

Sweeeet cribbage coffee table, Andre!! What do the pegs look like? I'd love to sit down and play some cribbage at that table!


----------



## PPK

.


----------



## CL810

Andre, how did you drill all the holes?


----------



## bearkatwood

I got the chair shipped back from my class in Virginia and the first coat of finish is on. Looking forward to putting this in the living room.


----------



## bondogaposis

That is a beautiful chair.


----------



## rad457

> I use keyhole mounting plates for shelves like that. Mortise the recess. I like that they slide onto the screw, that way they shelf wont easily fall if someone bumps into it. Or….. when an oversized ogre repeatedly hits his head on the shelf while installing flooring…lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I make these for smaller wall hung items, can be inlay flush on back side.


----------



## rad457

> Sweeeet cribbage coffee table, Andre!! What do the pegs look like? I d love to sit down and play some cribbage at that table!
> 
> - PPK


Real quick and simple! the small ones were white birch but finish yellowed them


----------



## rad457

> Andre, how did you drill all the holes?
> 
> - CL810


Outside on the drill press and then plunge router for the inside, which turned out be faster and actually easier?
The drilling of the holes was one of the reasons to use the B.B. ply insert.
Had a template enlarged (24" x 36" at Staples then used Awl to mark all the centers, drill with brad point bit.


----------



## rad457

> I got the chair shipped back from my class in Virginia and the first coat of finish is on. Looking forward to putting this in the living room.
> 
> - bearkatwood


Thanks alot ! Now I want to go back to Inside Passage and make the Vidars chair again!


----------



## ColonelTravis

A cribbage table, wow. 
Beautiful rocker.

OK quick question - I'm gonna make some end tables soon. This photo is *NOT* what they are gonna look like but this photo helps with my question.










See those vertical, thin side slats? I'm going to have some that will not be as wide. Do they need to be M&T'd, or can you just cut a mortise and shove a slat in the hole?

Of all the reading I've done about joints, I've never run across anyone explain if a M&T is always preferable over a mortise and no tenon. I have to imagine that with narrow pieces, at a certain point of narrowness, a tenon is pointless. Is that correct? And if it is, what is the rule of thumb on how narrow that narrowness needs to be?

If I'm incorrect, feel free to smack me with a side of beef.


----------



## bearkatwood

You can cut a slit in and then make spacers to shim them in place, that is an easy way to do it.









Similar to the back slats on this chair, but it doesn't need to be a continuous piece like that. It can be just little shim blocks cut to fit.


----------



## rad457

> You can cut a slit in and then make spacers to shim them in place, that is an easy way to do it.
> 
> - bearkatwood


Exactly what I was thinking, no structural strength required, slot with spacers, like stair, deck rails?


----------



## pintodeluxe

A bare-faced tenon, without shoulders, is an option but it has two drawbacks that come to mind. No shoulder means less racking resistance. Important in some applications, but not here. Slats are usually decorative, so no problem.

The second reason not to use bare-faced tenons is the mortise has to be perfect! Otherwise, and gap will show and be obvious.

As far as cutting a dado and filling it later (I call that the Woodsmith Shop method)... sure it would work, but it's actually more work than just cutting mortises!

So for slats, I use gool 'ol mortise and tenons. I avoid round tenons, and I avoid bare-faced tenons.

Good luck!


----------



## DLK

Why do you avoid round tenons? (I just did some round tenons for stool rungs.)


----------



## DanKrager

I have built several tables in this style and always used full mortise and tenon primarily for cosmetic reasons. The shoulders hide the dust collecting joint better. It is surprising how much strength is added, but it's overkill, which is my style. Besides, I have a router mill….

DanK


----------



## bearkatwood

> As far as cutting a dado and filling it later (I call that the Woodsmith Shop method)... sure it would work, but it s actually more work than just cutting mortises!


Good point and it can be unattractive, myself I would use my mortiser.


----------



## pintodeluxe

> Why do you avoid round tenons? (I just did some round tenons for stool rungs.)
> 
> - Combo Prof


Just so the spindles don't spin. A stool with round rungs would be pretty traditional to have round tenons. Maybe I over generalized.


----------



## bigblockyeti

> As far as cutting a dado and filling it later (I call that the Woodsmith Shop method)... sure it would work, but it s actually more work than just cutting mortises!
> 
> Good point and it can be unattractive, myself I would use my mortiser.
> 
> - bearkatwood


Shopping around for a builder, I've see this done extensively with hand railing spindles and most of the time it doesn't look very good, sometimes it looks down right hideous.


----------



## rad457

*Shopping around for a builder, I've see this done extensively with hand railing spindles and most of the time it doesn't look very good, sometimes it looks down right hideous.*

Agree but depends on the builder and perhaps the function required? Maybe what looks "okay" on the floor may not be very appealing on a piece of furniture?


----------



## PPK

Personally, I'd still do M&T joint with a shoulder. Looks more traditional IMO.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> A bare-faced tenon, without shoulders, is an option but it has two drawbacks that come to mind. No shoulder means less racking resistance. Important in some applications, but not here. Slats are usually decorative, so no problem.
> 
> The second reason not to use bare-faced tenons is the mortise has to be perfect! Otherwise, and gap will show and be obvious.
> 
> - pintodeluxe


I thought of both these but I wasn't fully thinking how the shoulder can prevent a gap forming in the mortise. No shoulder? Future gap, weaker joint that could fail. Has to do with force, narrowness has nothing to do with it. Got it, got it.

Thanks for the input everyone.


----------



## bondogaposis

I'm making progress on the Mackintosh table. Here's what I've got so far. Leg cut outs. Legs tapered. Lower stretchers cut and half laps fitted.


----------



## PPK

Very fine work, Bondo!


----------



## CL810

Looks great Bondo! You work fast.


----------



## ColonelTravis

My standing desk project is almost done, can finally see the light. I have pull-out shelves on the sides that are 11" wide, 12" long. Don't have any single boards that wide so I bookmatched 2 cherry boards into the panels and now I don't know the answer to this question: since they are two boards, should I breadboard them?


----------



## DanKrager

CT, IMHO it is always a good idea to stabilize a wide wood panel with something that acts like a breadboard if not a breadboard. The good news in your case is that the wood is cherry which is known to be stable and unlikely to twist, warp, cup, or what have you. Worst case scenario is later on if something does happen, you can trim and add breadboards later. I still like to finish both sides equally because 50 years of success is more believable than some of the recent claims.

DanK


----------



## a1Jim

Cool Design Bondo can't wait to see the finished project.


----------



## derekcohen

Here are a couple more chapters:

The Apothecary Chest: weekend nine - Dovetailing on an angle

The Apothecary Chest: weekend ten - beginning the drawers

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## ColonelTravis

Thanks, Dan. I think I'll breadboard just as a precaution. It certainly won't detract.


----------



## bearkatwood

This won't hardly match up with the quality of stuff being shown here right now, but I started on a quick set of bar stools in the midst of being buried by Saw-zilla. Awesome work up there guys.
I cut out legs and glued together the base rings. There is an inner and outer ring cut from the one blank, which become the footrest and top of the base. The legs are fit the the footrest ring with a lap joint and then tenoned into the top ring making the base. 









Next I will glue up chunks for seats and the backrests.









Hoping to have it turn out like this in the end, though this set doesn't get the metal on the footrest.









Have a great week everyone, I hope you are all doing well and life is good.


----------



## Handtooler

WOW! I;m quite sure your's will be just as beautiful. You're a really great craftsman.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

That chair is nuts Brian. Well done.

I've been on a good run of making stuff for family that you'd see on pintrest;-). This is gonna be a long dining table with black pipe legs. I edge glued some QSWO and went for a rustic ebonized look. Use black grain filler, then ebony colored stain. Pretty happy with it.










The girls had a little too much fun with the fill. Thankful for a festool sander/vac combo to remove most of this.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Also for those who enjoyed my sermon last winter, I've been at the pulpit again the past two weeks - a couple heartfelt sermons about Joseph. I just started putting them on my blog.

http://www.westfallwoodcraft.com/p/sermons.html


----------



## derekcohen

An update on the Apothecary Chest …

All the drawer fronts have been dovetailed. I spent some time preparing the drawer bottoms and drawer backs for next weekend.

Here is a very short video to illustrate the angles involved in the dovetailing …






Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## ColonelTravis

Finally - Derek hits YouTube! You need to produce more. You are a terrific resource.

Awesome top, Red. Hope the kids went in the house before washing their hands and smacked all the couches and chairs to celebrate a job well done.


----------



## PPK

Awesome work fellers!

I'm working on that lamp from the Wood Magazine. It's been a fun build, and kind of historical for me: I'm using a purchased plan! (I haven't done that since I was a kid in 4-H)


----------



## bondogaposis

PPK, I built that lamp last year. It is a great project, yours looks great.


----------



## derekcohen

Here are a few more videos to illustrate some of the strategies that were used. These precede the video presented earlier:

Rebating the pin board …






Preparing the sockets …






Clearing the sockets …






Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## bearkatwood

Thanks Red, how much mess did those kids end up making?
Here is the latest installment. The back rest is a coopered glue up. It can get sketchy and be a pain to glue up, but today went well. The clamping setup I use makes it go pretty easy. I turn the two longer boards on the lathe to have a stepped tenon that will go into the seat. The hole in the seat is drilled with a pilot bit from woodshopbits and a fomag forstner bit 1" and 3/4" 
Tomorrow I will start on joinery for the base.


----------



## PPK

Cool setup, Brian! Really clever how you turned the spindle/back combination boards in the lathe. I would have done it the hard way and never thought of that…

Question: I've got some large 1" wide mortises to make in some table legs. Obviously my mortising machine doesn't go that wide. Should I got the forstner bit method, and then clean up with chisel? What's the best way to tackle these? One side doesn't have to be pretty, because shoulder of tenon will cover, but other side needs to be sharp…


----------



## bearkatwood

I would use my mortiser and then move the fence using a 1/2" bit and just chop away at it. But if you are going to do it by hand and want a crisp edge on one or both faces then I suggest you take 4 1/2 minutes and watch this, Jeff miller uses a stop block to line the chisel up perfect and it works great. 
Jeff Miller cutting Mortises


----------



## DLK

See also The Paul Sellers' Mortise & Tenon Method


----------



## PPK

Cool! Both interesting and helpful. Thanks guys.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Love Paul Sellers but I'm not sold on that tenon method (hadn't seen it before now) only because it seems like it would take more time than a saw? It's no doubt accurate. BUT! I do like his little mortise jig, which is somewhat like the Jeff Miller example. Never thought of paring up a layer before chopping, that's a nice idea.

Will try one of those mortise side jig things next project. Thanks for the links fellas.


----------



## derekcohen

I saw tenons by hand, however several years ago, about 2009, I designed a tenon guide, the design of which was inspired by the Veritas dovetail saw guide. I think it is brilliant (!), and when LV decided not to build it, I placed the design on my website …

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/TenonGuide.html










Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## DLK

I was also struck that there are similarities between the Jeff Miller and Paul Sellers method with regards to cutting the mortice. I wonder who's method was first. But no matter, we all adapt, improve and build upon what we see so much that it is hard to know the origins. I also agree that the Paul sellers method for cutting the tenons may be overkill if you can saw straight. It is however very precise. I think the way he uses the router plane to mark out the tenons and mortice is brilliant. The router plane in this use is of course just a cutting gauge with large reference face, but it also doubles as as device to pair the surface exactly true. Derek's adjustable guide for cutting the tenons with the embedded magnets should also be accurate. One could use Derek's guide to first make an extra short stile with a tenon. Then use the short stile in the way Paul does to chop and pair the mortice. I think there is much to learn from these three methods that can be adapted to other applications.


----------



## PPK

Wellll….. I have to sheepishly admit that I almost always cut my tenons on the table saw with the dado blade. No fancy handwork here  I do clean them up with a rabbet plane though!

Paul sellers has great videos. I love watching the guy, because he isn't over the top in any way. He has simple tools, and usually very simple, common sense methods of doing things.

Derek, your guide is pretty slick looking. I'm surprised LV didn't make a go of it!


----------



## bondogaposis

I finished up the Mackintosh table today. It was quite an adventure. Painting furniture sucks, but I like the look in this case.


----------



## theoldfart

Exquisite work Bondo.


----------



## jmartel

I'm not much for painted stuff, but I do like that table, Bondo.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Bondo very nice - is the top sycamore? If you'd said I missed it, sorry.


----------



## Sunstealer73

> I got the chair shipped back from my class in Virginia and the first coat of finish is on. Looking forward to putting this in the living room.


Brian,

Very nice chair! Where in Virginia did you take the class?


----------



## bondogaposis

> Bondo very nice - is the top sycamore? If you d said I missed it, sorry.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Yep, it is book matched sycamore.


----------



## bearkatwood

That is cool looking, nice work.


----------



## bearkatwood

I took the class in Strasburg with Jeff Lefkowitz, an amazing teacher and it was a great class.


----------



## CL810

Really nice work Bondo. Table pose????


----------



## theoldfart

^


----------



## bearkatwood

So the bar stools are glued up and it is almost time to get back to making saws for another 6 months. It has been fun to woodwork again. I never thought when I made my own saw that I would get sucked into that world. It has been a fun ride, but I put a moratorium on custom saw orders and next year I will be starting a school in my shop offering saw making classes and chair classes and whatever else I think I may be able to teach. Looking forward to not doing production work for the first time in 20 years. Hopefully I do O.K. at it.
So here are a few shots from the stool job I have been working on. The 4/4 planks that were glued up get cut into two rings, one for the footrest and one for the top. Then the legs get a dado as does the bottom ring to bridal joint them all together. The top ring gets drilled with a stepped mortise to fit over the tenon on the tops of the legs. Everything locks together and moves seasonally os one. Same with the tops, the coopered backrest sits in the seat blank with the same stepped mortise and wedged tenon with the grain all contiguous. Today I start the finish shaping and sanding and I am hoping to ship them out next week. 
Have a great day everyone.


----------



## SpartyOn

Long time lurker on this forum. Man, you do beautiful work!


----------



## bondogaposis

> Really nice work Bondo. Table pose????
> 
> - CL810


Ok.


----------



## bondogaposis

Brian, i would definitely consider taking a chair class from you.


----------



## CL810

Finished. Since I called out Bondo for a pose I felt obliged. Sorry the cabinet is so tall. ;-)


----------



## TheFridge

Fine work gents. Carry the torch while us other laze about.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Fine work Andy and Bondo!


----------



## jmartel

Good looking cabinet.


----------



## DanKrager

What's been said.

"Like".

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

I guess they are ok, if you like that sort of thing.
You know, like beautiful design, excellent craftsmanship, material selection etc etc etc. 

Really well done Andy and Bondo, I raise my glass to you both. Cheers.


----------



## bondogaposis

CL810, nice "Wilson" pose.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Bondo, I love that photo.
Andy, Brian - beautiful work.

Everyone here is really good and an inspiration.


----------



## vivekrajan

Wow, You really did great work. I really like it.


----------



## DLK

> CL810, nice "Wilson" pose.
> 
> - bondogaposis


I like. "Bond pose" for workbench "Wilson pose" for furniture.


----------



## TheFridge

> Wow, You really did great work. I really like it.
> 
> - vivekrajan


Here come the PMs. I want be friend. Email me so we talk. I am not scam person.


----------



## PPK

Here's what I've been working on: a little different kind of furniture -









.
.










So my wife has been training to be a teacher in a new Montessori based catechism program, called Catechesis of the Good Shepherd. (for those not familiar with Montessori education, it uses lots of manipulatives and hands-on things to teach, instead of relying so heavily on texts)

The class requires all sorts of child-size stuff: Small table and chairs, podiums, garment stands, little "dioramas", etc. The pics above are the small start I've got on the hefty list… She wants it all by Oct.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Here's how that white oak/black pipe dining table turned out. Now on to some cherry bookcases.


----------



## TheFridge

I'll try to be as diplomatic as possible.

I hate those legs. The top looks great though


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Ha. No hurt feelers here bud. My in-laws spend too much time on pinterest. I wouldn't want it in my house… but they love it. I did my best with the request. So there ya go.


----------



## bearkatwood

Reminds me of Mario Bros.


----------



## bigblockyeti

That table top looks fantastic! What diameter pipe did you end up using for the legs?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

It's 1-1/4". I think that was a good call for stability….and the look. They cut and thread very reasonably if you buy the pipe at Lowes. I can tell you're all dying to make one….lol.

Not something I'd put in my house either. But I think it'd be a good bar table etc.


----------



## CL810

Interesting read on buying wood on the Goby Walnut website:

https://gobywalnut.com/pages/the-art-of-buying-lumber


----------



## DanKrager

Like that article, CL810. Been doing most of that for years, but there were some gems. Thank you for sharing.

DanK


----------



## pintodeluxe

> Interesting read on buying wood on the Goby Walnut website:
> 
> https://gobywalnut.com/pages/the-art-of-buying-lumber
> 
> - CL810


That was an interesting read. I have adopted most of those practices as well. For novices who buy surfaced S4S lumber, it can be eye opening how much warping and bowing occurs while the lumber is on the store shelf. I now air dry and kiln dry my own lumber, which is "in too deep" for most furniture makers, but it sure is a luxury to have a source of stable rough cut stock.

Thanks for sharing the article.


----------



## DLK

It is a very interesting read.


----------



## derekcohen

This is the end of my build. If you are interested in the build itself, it will all be on my website in the next day or two. Just look under Apothecary Chest

Talk about down to the wire. It's 11 p.m. and I've just completed a coat of Howard's wax after the last coat of Livos Universal Wood Oil. The drawers were all finished inside and out with Ubeaut Hard Shellac (dewaxed blond shellac). The inside of the chest (drawer recesses) was given a coat of paste wax. Tomorrow morning I take the chest to the Perth Showground for the annual West Australian Wood Show, where it will take its place among others in the furniture competition. I started this piece 3 months ago.

I could tell you how the base gave me fits. It was a difficult task to design a stand for a curved cabinet. Probably why Krenov never built an apothecary chest!  Last night I completed the base, and Lynndy loved it. Compound curves forever. Damn sexy. The base, that is.










But when I placed the chest on it, the combination looked awful … top heavy … ugh! I was out of wood, out of time, and it looked like I was out of the competition.

This morning I woke up and had an inspiration. Cut the legs shorter. This evening, after work, I did just that. And I like the finished piece. I think the balance is right. So does Lynndy, which matters. The dimensions are 1000 high (39") x 460mm (18") across.

Here is the chest, and where it will be positioned in the entrance hall …










A few pics of the base …




























Much time was spent designing and building the drawers, which curve across the fronts …

















https://s19.postimg.cc/thudstgqr/11a.jpg[/img[/URL]]

Yes, I changed the steel for brass screws (no slotted ones the correct size, however) ...










And made knobs in the same Black Walnut, and fitted coplanar to the drawer recess (that was a headache before finally coming up with the simplest solution, to use the drill press!) ..










I was very pleased with the drawer stops …










... and you can see the shiplapped back if you peak …










It has been a long, but exhilarating build. I hope that you got something from it too.

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## Hammerthumb

Very cool build Derek. Show it off with pride!


----------



## Dr_T

Wanted to show some of the finished pieces as I got some design help from some of the guys here for a set of bedroom furniture. 
Nightstands:








Dresser(s):
















Top details:









I appreciate the assistance and I'm sure they turned out better than they would have without the input. Thanks!


----------



## CL810

Beautiful Dr T!


----------



## waho6o9

Stunning work Dr T congratulations.


----------



## bondogaposis

Really nice, is the top walnut?


----------



## Dr_T

Thanks for the comments!

bondogaposis - the tops are all from a single piece of Honduran Mahogany that I got from my Grandfather after he passed away. To give you an idea of how big the original piece was, I still have some left for some other projects even after these are done.


----------



## ColonelTravis

I like how you did the side casework on the dresser there, T.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

My hybrid ways. I've kicked around trying this for a while. Well, with my forearms sore from hand sawing three book case DT joints….









I handed the chisel work to a pattern bit in the lectric router. Worked pretty slick.

Left half have been 'routed'. The right just cut close with a coping saw.


----------



## bobasaurus

I ran into Frank Strazza at a blacksmithing conference I attended last week. Pretty odd seeing him outside of the usual woodworking events. I was the only one who recognized him there. We did some forging together:










It reminded me that Handworks is coming again next year. Anyone have information on dates yet? Probably mid-May-ish again.


----------



## EarlS

I've been lurking about on this thread for a bit. Wow lots of great information and ideas. We were discussing Handworks 2019 on the 2018 Fall Layout tool thread yesterday. Since I live a couple of hours from the Amana Colonies and it sounds interesting I did some looking around to see if there was anything out there. Nothing yet. A couple of folks that have been to it in past years thought it was a bit early yet for them to be putting out dates and such. Maybe something will come out in early December.


----------



## bearkatwood

I may actually make it to this one. Who knows, but I think the dates do come out in Dec. or jan.


----------



## bobasaurus

Lets have a LJ get together there, Brian. I love going to this show, despite the long distance for me.


----------



## JayT

I'm planning/hoping to make it to this one, too. Be cool to do an LJ meet-up.


----------



## bearkatwood

If I can make it for sure, let's meet up.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I'm always there. Like a sumbucking pimp;-P

It does crack me up that Schwarz and the crew don't announce the Handworks date until they've booked all the best B&B's. Ha. Don't blame 'em. There's still a good one we stay at every time. Had breakfast with Dave from Blue Spruce each day. We'll def talk as it comes closer.


----------



## PPK

Behold: My first ever handcut dovetail! now I need to make 5 more for a wash stand made from birch.


----------



## Waldo88

Been a really long time since I posted here. Took a week to read the 2 years of thread I missed. Y'all are doing some awesome work. I had to take a hiatus; shop is in the basement, baby wouldn't sleep through the noise. Then the wife got pregnant with another, which meant that in addition to the noise issue, I was also broke because we had to get a new car. But things have resolved themselves, kids are sleeping fine and I can afford to work on stuff again. I also had the problem where I ran out of ideas, all the easy stuff in the house was done, there wasn't much I was motivated to work on.

But things have piled up quick. I started working on a new coat shelf for our rear entry with some cherry I had, to replace the crappy one that is there, but before I got very far I ran out of wood and the lumber yard I'd been using closed down. While waiting to find a new wood source I was working on refinishing a chair I've been meaning to get around to. Then the wife decided the boys need a new bookshelf for their room (though she was quite adamant about buying one instead of waiting for me to build one). But I found a new wood source, and bought all that I needed to build the shelves, once I had the wood she couldn't say no (also got the cherry I needed to finish the coat rack).

I've switched gears completely though to the bookshelf for the boys. My wife was quite specific for what she wanted. Had to fit a space in their room (65" w total possible, I'm going with 60"). She wanted it short so toys can be stored on top and toddlers still reach (going with 36"). Has to have adjustable shelves to maximize space, their existing bookshelf is totally overflowing, so day 1 this thing is going to be loaded (2 shelves+bottom).

The new lumberyard is a good bit further from my house (downside of living in the city, most lumber yards are on the outskirts of town) and doesn't have quite the selection, but it'll do. They had some good cheap maple, so that's what I'm going with. This is very much a function first, form second piece. I'm making a basic box with a center divider, and a small zero clearance base (so no toys can get under it).

This will be my first attempt at solid wood casework. I've done hardwood edged plywood casework in the past. There are lots of real nice dovetailed bookshelves in this thread. I think I'm going with hand cut box joints for the corner joints. I personally prefer box joints to dovetails looks wise (its a modern vs. traditional thing) and I also think box joints are a hair stronger with modern adhesives. Going to hand cut them because the panels are way too big to use a router sled jig.









Jointing the boards for gluing into panels.

I've got all the pieces jointed and glued together into panels, finished the last one last night. Working on flattening each side of each panel and cutting them to length, which I'll hopefully get done this week; not the fastest process working with handplanes.

I do have a couple of ?'s though.

- Its 4/4 soft maple, 12" wide, 60" long, and 36" high. 4 corners will be box joints. Center divider will be attached with through tenons that mimick the look of a box joint. No back. I think this should be strong enough to prevent any racking or twist; other projects I've made with box joints are ridiculously strong, box joints put the glue line purely in shear, pretty much the form of loading glue does best. Do y'all think I'll have issues? I saw Red had to add a brace to his cherry bookshelf that was dovetailed.

- The adjustable shelves will each be 11" wide, 4/4, and just under 29" long. Will I need a stiffener to reduce shelf deflection?

- I have the setup to spray lacquer, and was going to go that route since its the most repairable tough finish. This thing is going to see a lot of use/abuse. While I would usually opt for varnish for heavy wearing, in this case repairability wins out. That said, my house/style is retro modern, and all old maple from the mid-century era looks about the same. Yellowed/browned from age and helped along by yellowed old nitro lacquer. What lacquer do y'all find warms up the wood the most? Usually with lacquer the opposite is sought, so I'm basically looking for the worst lacquer, lol. I want to avoid a BLO then wait a week step if I can.


----------



## PPK

Wow! life happens, huh, Waldo??!?

Going to make the cabinet frameless? I'd still use a brace if there is no face frame. Box joints are strong, but the wood can still flex a good amount over that span.

If the shelf is only holding toys, I don't think the shelf need stiffener. Book are heavy though, I'd use a stiffener on shelves if holding books or heavy stuff.

I could be wrong, but I don't think BLO is even compatible with lacquer… I'd be pretty hesitant to try that, as I've ended up with some fantastic wrinkling and other issues when trying to use oil-base (BLO) with solvent-base (Lacquer) finishes. That being said, can you just put your project out in the sun for awhile? Direct sunlight? Maple stains so poorly in my opinion… 'Course these are all my opinions  I've never done ammonia fuming, but have heard that it can make some pretty sweet results.


----------



## Waldo88

Yes, frameless design. I have some old flooring from a HS gym. A piece with paint on it is going to be used for for the base, but I could use another to span across the back, up near the top, would do something like a slot w/mortise in the middle divider. That would increase the stability, if needed.

Shelves will be holding books. Our boys now have an extensive library between hand me downs, birthdays, and trips to the bookstore on rainy days.

I've used BLO under lacquer before. The trick is to let the oil fully dry first, so 1-2 weeks of waiting before spraying lacquer. Maybe I just got lucky. I'd rather just find some yellower lacquer. Yeah, I don't have any interest in staining or dying it, and really don't want to mess around with a toner or glaze. Would rather keep it simple with the finish. I've tried putting unwaxed shellac on maple then lacquer, but I didn't care for the results, I'd end up with thicker spots and thinner spots, it wasn't uniform enough in color.

Does maple yellow/darken in the sun significantly? If so, these shelves are going to be doing some tanning.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Would love to make to that Iowa thing, will keep it in mind. What time of year is it?

I'm pretty much done with a stand-up desk, only 2 things left to do. First, I need to add some molding around the bottom of the box. The molding is cherry and I'm making it darker in the sun for a few days. The desk is made almost entirely of mesquite and I don't have enough of that to make molding. The bottom inside the box is cherry and the little corbels (I guess that's what they are) at the legs are also cherry. Pull-out shelves are ash.










Second, I have a concern about the pull-out shelves on the sides and am not sure what to do. When you pull them out, they will obviously start to flop down unless you have an anti-flop-down design. I want to be able to pull them out and they be perfectly straight. Kinda hard to tell from this photo, but they are a-floppin'.










I have thought of one way of preventing that, but trying to explain it took two convoluted paragraphs that didn't explain it well, plus I'm not sure it would even work so I deleted a bunch of crap that was originally in this space.

This is what it looks like so far:









Any suggestions?


----------



## TheFridge

More screws?


----------



## ColonelTravis

I'm open to the more screws method but don't know what it is!


----------



## CL810

What happens when you apply lacquer over blo?


----------



## TheFridge

I don't know either CT but it sounded good


----------



## Hammerthumb

> What happens when you apply lacquer over blo?
> 
> - CL810


It gets shiney.


----------



## CL810

Thanks Paul, I recently made 6 display cases for golf balls applying Watco's danish oil followed by lacquer. It was days, 5-8, between the applications so I may be alright. I do stupid pretty well from time to time.


----------



## ColonelTravis

> I do stupid pretty well from time to time.
> 
> - CL810


Amateur….
I could kick your butt in this category every day of the week. Did you leave cherry boards, which were supposed to get a suntan, outside in a long downpour today? Ask me if I did that. I triple dog dare you to ask me. Go ahead and ask me.

*OK YES! YES I DID THAT! LEAVE ME ALONE!*


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> I do stupid pretty well from time to time.
> - CL810
> 
> Amateur….
> Did you leave cherry boards, which were supposed to get a suntan, outside in a long downpour today?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


WooHoo, a stupid contest? *I am professional participant in this event everyday!*

Cherry wood left in rain? Polyurethane'd parts drying outside get hit by a dust storm? 
Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt…. way too many times.

Want me to send you a T-shirt?









My stunt today was changing the round over bit from router only to realize that I only shaped 3 sides of panel that needed all four edges cut. 

My motto: Relax, Tomorrow it will be different mistake.

Be safe.


----------



## JADobson

Not exactly fine furniture but here are some 2×4 bar stools I just finished up for a friend:


----------



## JayT

> My motto: Relax, Tomorrow it will be different mistake.
> 
> - CaptainKlutz


I am so stealing that line.



> Would love to make to that Iowa thing, will keep it in mind. What time of year is it?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Handworks has been in May the first two times. I'm assuming that is when they will hold it again.


----------



## CL810

.


----------



## CL810

Peter Galbert on scraper sharpening. FWW


----------



## ColonelTravis

That little sled is a great idea, thanks for passing that vid along.


----------



## waho6o9

Thanks CL810!


----------



## DanKrager

Waldo, I'm on the band wagon for lacquer all the way, no BLO. Lacquer solvent and mineral spirits are incompatible solvents and lacquer on top will lead to trouble sooner or later. I use Deft and thin it about 15-20% with acetone or lacquer thinner, depending on how fast I want it to dry and how humid it is. In two coats, sanded between with 320 stearated dry, you will have professional looking finish. You might want to sand the top coat very very lightly and finish with 0000 steel wool, but if the finish has flowed out properly, which it does most of the time, you won't need to.

Also, re: shelf load. A 30" span is the maximum recommended unsupported span for a 3/4" solid wood board holding a load like books. So, since you are making them adjustable, make them so they can be turned over in 5 years when sag becomes annoying, i.e. finish both sides equally. Done. I've had two customers thank me for doing that for their pieces.

Good luck. Glad you can get back to doing "stuff".
DanK


----------



## CL810

It works.


----------



## DLK

> Peter Galbert on scraper sharpening. FWW
> 
> - CL810


Very good video in my opinion.


----------



## rad457

> Peter Galbert on scraper sharpening. FWW
> 
> - CL810


Like the sled idea, Believe Bearkat has a Vid on sharpening his Scrappers?
Not sure how it would work on the curved scrapers as I seldom have a need for them,
but on the flat scrapers I usually do a light hone on my Water stones, 1000 then 8000?
Biggest problem is always pushing to hard making the hook!


----------



## rad457

Forgot to mention, not sure if anyone here has been following but the Mortise & Tenon Magazine, Issue 5 is out.
Of course L.V. put it on back order when I placed my order! Pretty sure I didn't read or even open #4 yet but Winter is on it's way.


----------



## PPK

> Waldo, I m on the band wagon for lacquer all the way, no BLO. Lacquer solvent and mineral spirits are incompatible solvents and lacquer on top will lead to trouble sooner or later. I use Deft and thin it about 15-20% with acetone or lacquer thinner, depending on how fast I want it to dry and how humid it is. In two coats, sanded between with 320 stearated dry, you will have professional looking finish. You might want to sand the top coat very very lightly and finish with 0000 steel wool, but if the finish has flowed out properly, which it does most of the time, you won t need to.
> 
> - Dan Krager


Haha,
This is funny you mention this, Dan. Yesterday, I used up my last splash of lacquer thinner to thin the lacquer I was spraying… not leaving any for clean up. I figured what the heck, I'll clean my gun with paint thinner. Instant fail. Paint thinner congeals the lacquer and made a big mess. Luckily its just lacquer, and once I get some acetone, it'll just dissolve, and super expensive $12 Harbor Freight gun can be used again. But imagine what would have happened if I tried that on my nice cherry cabinet?? *End fail story of the weekend.*


----------



## PPK

The successes:
Small (solid cherry only - no plywood) storage cabinet: 








.








Small bench, From a scrap of birds eye maple that has been begging to get used forever:








.


----------



## Waldo88

Making progress on the bookshelves. I have all the panels glued, planed, and cut to length. Working on the corner joints. Going to do one the hard way, then make a pair of router templates to "copy" the joint to the other 3 corners. I've got that one finished and one of the two router templates made.












> Good luck. Glad you can get back to doing "stuff".
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Thx for the reply. Do you know of any good way (or lacquer brand) to mimic the look of old yellowed lacquer?

I was planning on making an inset for the adjustment pins in the shelf, but maybe I'll just skip that so that the shelves can be flipped since I'm so close to that max unsupported length.


----------



## DanKrager

Use clear lacquer and tint it with a compatible tint to taste. If there is a Sherwin Williams store within driving distance, they are (usually) very knowledgeable about such stuff.

I've made adjustable shelves with hidden hardware that came out very nice. The hardware is nothing more than a heavy bent wire that you put into the adjustment holes on the vertical sides and then the shelf slides onto the wire "staple" which engages a stopped groove in the end of the self.

DanK


----------



## Waldo88

> Use clear lacquer and tint it with a compatible tint to taste. If there is a Sherwin Williams store within driving distance, they are (usually) very knowledgeable about such stuff.
> 
> I ve made adjustable shelves with hidden hardware that came out very nice. The hardware is nothing more than a heavy bent wire that you put into the adjustment holes on the vertical sides and then the shelf slides onto the wire "staple" which engages a stopped groove in the end of the self.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Nice, I've never heard of that type of shelf support, but that seems pretty much ideal. Hides the pins and prevents the shelf from pushing backwards, important because I don't intend to put a back on it, shelves would just slide around on standard pins with no inset for the pins.


----------



## Blindhog

I have been watching this thread for some time and finally got to the end. Some truly amazing work being done by the craftsmen posted here. Your experiences and sharing of knowledge helps a nail-bender like me a LOT!
Thought I'd share my latest project; it's a bed frame made using black walnut with bubinga panels. Finished with GF Arm R Seal.










Joinery done with dominoes










Found some slabs of bubinga at a friends shop that had been sitting around for years and convinced him to part with some of it. Cut it up and resawed for the panels.










Finished piece should look good in our bedroom!


----------



## JADobson

Wow, that looks fantastic.


----------



## DanKrager

Nailbender, I don't see any bent nails in that! Don't see ANY nails. Too much beauty distraction to see them.

DanK


----------



## bearkatwood

Whoa! That is sexy!


----------



## PPK

+1 to all the positive comments made. Very nice. The light colored wood in the center is really unique, and you did a great job incorporating it and making it prominent.


----------



## JayT

Beautiful work, Blindhog. Glad you used a Domino instead of bent nails.


----------



## PPK

Hey now, don't be hard on bent nails!! I think they call them clenched nails or clinched nails or something… And they can look pretty darn nice in the "rustic" styles of furniture…


----------



## MJClark

I am really impressed by the furniture in the photos here. Most of my stuff including a cottage style king size bed has been paint grade wood, but I am looking to expand into something more.


----------



## Blindhog

Thanks for all the encouraging comments!
The bubinga slab had some sap wood on one edge that ended up being just right for the footer/header panels.


----------



## DanKrager

Blindhog, I got the wrong name! Sorry. Still don't see any bent nails! LOL!

DanK


----------



## ColonelTravis

Where I come from, a clinched nail is called "a mistake from not being able to hammer properly because you're an idiot."

Spectacular frame.

Speaking of nails, I just got around to using cut nails for the first time. Man, I love those things.


----------



## theoldfart

At least until you try and pull one out DAMHIKT


----------



## Bonka

Does our doll cradle count as furniture? Cherry with Waterlox OSF. Quilt by Susan my wife. c


----------



## PPK

Really nice, Jerry! Who/what is it for? I appreciate the quilt too - my wife quilts and there's a lot of work and skill that goes into them things. In fact, I was razzing her for taking perfectly good fabric and chopping it into a million pieces, and then sewing them all back together. The I realized I do pretty much the same thing with a perfectly good board.


----------



## Bonka

The cradle is for a four year old granddaughter of a friend of ours in So. Dak. She knows something is coming but not what. UPS did not pick it up as directed so I dropped it off at a place that will get it out tonight.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Galbert scraper method = mind blown. Way easier than what I've been doing.

Some silly good working going on here. I've got a big roll of bubinga veneer downstairs. I think blindhog just showed me what to do with it.

Woodshop on hold while I rework our basement a bit. Bookshelves are lookin good though.


----------



## PPK

> Galbert scraper method = mind blown. Way easier than what I ve been doing.
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I've not tried Galbert's method, but I was mind blown when I used our very own BearKat's method of turning a burr!


----------



## CL810

I was at the Rijksmuseum today and have found the answer to the question, "can there be too much of a good thing?"

Ebony, yes 100% ebony.


----------



## CL810

This was something I'd never seen before, mitered bread-board ends.


----------



## theoldfart

I wonder how the builder avoided splitting?


----------



## bearkatwood

Like I say, anything worth doing is worth over-doing  Can't imagine having something so decadent in my house as that. Wow, what a wild piece.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Andy - that would be a good place to stash your King Louis XIII cognac!


----------



## Waldo88

Still working on the bookshelf I'm making for my boys, have the last side glued up. Time to start sanding. Also have to make the shelves and drill the shelf bracket holes. I have the panels for the shelves glued, but they have to be planed, cut to length, and have a slot for the shelf bracket routed into the ends.










I'm going to do a real simple base, basically a frame made from the leftovers (4/4 Maple), 1" smaller than the shelves. And hold it with a couple small screws. Right now it needs to be as short as possible as the little ones need to be able to reach, but I could make a new base for it in the future.

I wasn't sure if I needed a stiffener to prevent racking or other excessive movement. Figured I could add one after gluing if it does. After taking off the clamps, its clear I was worrying about nothing. I could stand on the top and play surfer dude and it would barely move. That and a full load of books would have the same effect as a stiffner, at minimum.

Already thinking about my next project. I was going to finish what I was working on before the shelves (a coatrack/shelf for the back door), but another hot item has come up. I had a real important hard drive die on me not too long ago, and though much of it was backed up, not all of it was. I'll have it recovered at some point when I can afford it, but in the meantime, I'm making sure this never happens again. Building a NAS for my home network with a Rasberry Pi clone running a set of hard drives (starting with 1, but can add as many as I need in the future). Going to make a nice little wooden box to house it. Ideally out of the scrap I have sitting around. Might trying my hand at angle grinder carved walnut, kinda like what Jory Brigham does (the guy that won framework a few years ago).


----------



## CL810

I reviewed the vonHanke branding iron. My memory may be wrong but I was thinking they were discussed on this thread a while back.


----------



## CL810

I am making the desk that appeared in Fine Woodworking's October 2018 issue. I've got a long way to go. the legs and stretchers have to be turned which will be a struggle for me since I've done very little turning. Oh well, skill building time as well I guess.

The writer/designer used leather but I decided to use some veneer that's been in my shop for a number of years waiting for a project .

!https://storage.googleapis.com/aws-s3-lumberjocks-com/phf2vw3.jpg

The veneer for the drawer front.










Anyone have a suggestion for how to finish the veneer? I tried some other veneer last year that had some dark areas and I could not find a way to make it pop. It just became too dark.


----------



## DanKrager

Cl810, that's already gorgeous! Better choice than leather IMHO.

It's been a long time since I've finished deep figure, but if I remember correctly, water white shellac or clear lacquer will do an outstanding job. Danish oil, if you are going the oiled route, is light and might work out well. Can't seem to get it around here, so, again, it's been a long time and I've slept since.

Good luck!

DanK


----------



## PPK

+1 on the lacquer…


----------



## ColonelTravis

> I am making the desk that appeared in Fine Woodworking s October 2018 issue.
> - CL810


Dumb question, but are you doing the legs and stretchers on a lathe? I saw the cover and it's a great looking desk but seems like you should have a good lathe for all the bottom work, which I don't have. Wondering how it would come out without the spindle-y look.


----------



## CL810

Thanks guys, I'm going to test all three of the suggestions! I have some scraps left over to sample.

I have a small lathe that will do the legs and 2 of the stretchers. Have to come up with a lathe for the 50" stretcher though. Going to wood workers club meeting Thursday night and hopefully will come up with a solution there.


----------



## Jared_S

Not sure if this qualifies as furniture, but my wife picked up a vintage file cabinet without side panels so I made some to match. The rails and stiles are a mix of rift and qs white oak. The panels are resawn to 1/2" and reverse raised. The finish is 4 part. They were fumed with low strength ammonia for 30 hours, then red mahogany trans-tint was sprayed to warm up the color and correct some of the fuming inconsistencies. The third step was two coats of watco Danish oil in medium walnut to bring out the brown tone. I still need to spray two coats of lenmar precat nitrocellulose lacquer in a dull rubbed sheen to finish them out.





































And the cabinet they are going on


----------



## CL810

Jared, the finish is outstanding. Where do you live? ;-) I may have a desk for you to work your magic on.

Don't know how I missed it but the first pic of the desk isn't showing up. Here it is.


----------



## DanKrager

Cl810, I've been known to turn an overlength piece in two pieces with a hidden tenon in the middle. I don't remember the form of this stretcher, but there must be a place where a tenon joint could be hidden. Doesn't weaken the piece if the tenon is 3x longer than diameter because of parallel grain gluing.

DanK


----------



## PPK

Dang! JaredS, that's a tall order to match an old finish like that, and it looks like you did really well! Its hard to get a match on something new too…

CL810, that's some fantastic veneer! The "X" grain pattern looks great… What wood is it??


----------



## CL810

Interesting idea Dan. May have to go that route.

Pete, I don't know. A furniture manufacturer in town closed down and and I bought some veneer from the inventory they sold off.


----------



## PPK

> Pete, I don t know. A furniture manufacturer in town closed down and and I bought some veneer from the inventory they sold off.
> 
> - CL810


Put it in a "what wood is this?" forum. You'll get it identified right away. And it'll be dead-on accurate (Alder)


----------



## TheFridge

> Cl810, I ve been known to turn an overlength piece in two pieces with a hidden tenon in the middle. I don t remember the form of this stretcher, but there must be a place where a tenon joint could be hidden. Doesn t weaken the piece if the tenon is 3x longer than diameter because of parallel grain gluing.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Ditto

Pete is right. Walnuttyish alder


----------



## jmartel

Nah, it's Crotch Mahoganyish/Sapeleish-Alder.


----------



## Jared_S

> Jared, the finish is outstanding. Where do you live? ;-) I may have a desk for you to work your magic on.
> 
> - CL810





> Dang! JaredS, that s a tall order to match an old finish like that, and it looks like you did really well! Its hard to get a match on something new too…
> 
> - PPK


Thanks I was relatively happy with how they came out so far.

And to be more furniture related (another wife wanted project) I knocked out these two benches. Just doing final sanding and prep before spraying finish.


----------



## theoldfart

"another wife"

You have more than one?


----------



## Jared_S

> "another wife"
> 
> You have more than one?
> 
> - theoldfart


HA! one is enough for me. That should have said "another project my wife wanted"


----------



## bondogaposis

I have been working on this night table all fall. Finally got it done. It is a reproduction of Stickley No. 110 night table. Measured drawing are in the book, Shop Drawings for Crafstman Furniture by Bob Lang.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Bondo - outstanding.


----------



## ToddJB

Awesome Bondo, what's your finish schedule on that oak?


----------



## bondogaposis

> Awesome Bondo, what s your finish schedule on that oak?
> 
> - ToddJB


It is kind of complicated, starts out with alcohol base red mahogany, then a coat of BLO then topped with Behlens Van ******************** brown glazing and shading stain, then multiple coats of Minwax wipe on poly.


----------



## ToddJB

The effort is worth it!


----------



## HokieKen

Bang on Bondo! That's a gorgeous piece. You just can't beat some QSWO in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing with it!


----------



## CL810

Great work Bondo - finish is outstanding!


----------



## theoldfart

Beautiful build Bondo. Fabulous final finish too!


----------



## CL810

Progress being made! Lots and lots of work left but when I checked the fit of the legs in the frame I couldn't help but put the top on to see how it looked. Nothing glued up yet just dreaming of being done.










A decision has been made on the finish. The veneered sections will have 1 coat of Zinseer sealcoat and then semi-gloss lacquer. I hope this show up in the pic how it looks in person. It really pops. The walnut will be more subdued, Watco's black walnut danish oil - still experimenting with test pieces - followed by matte or satin lacquer.


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, breathtaking grain on that fourway match. Can't wait to see the final product.

Edit: Is that a pet rodent underneath the table?


----------



## jmartel

Great job, Andy. I like the finish.


----------



## PPK

CL810, that's looking great! I'm excited to see the finish applied to that whole desktop!


----------



## CL810

Thanks Pete, it just so happens that I applied 2 coats of Zinsser seal coat last night.


----------



## PPK

Dang! That's cool. Boy, the grain that's not burl/crotch almost looks like zebrawood… There is a LOT of color variation!


----------



## theoldfart

That really popped Andy, quite nice.


----------



## bondogaposis

Very nice.


----------



## CL810

Thanks guys. I wish I wasn't so busy with other stuff, but it's that time of the year.


----------



## ColonelTravis

That desk is going to be too nice to put anything on it! Looking forward to seeing it completed.

I'm building a little end table with a little drawer and ran across this double dovetail construction (FWW July/August 2017) vs. a single dovetail for the top stretcher above the drawer front. My table is not even as wide as this photo, but even if it were, it seemed to me that double dovetailing for a not-so-big end table is overkill? Or is it not overkill? Anyone do a double DT like this?


----------



## brolog

Big Red Knothead i checked your portfolio. Very impressive. Great job!


----------



## bondogaposis

I've never done a double dovetail like that and it seems like overkill on a small table, but I suppose once you are set up to cut one dovetail why not cut two? It would be only a little more work. It is like showing off in a place that no one will ever see.


----------



## ColonelTravis

Pretty much finished this stand-up desk a while ago but have not posted it as a project because there is one last part that is not done - molding that goes around the bottom of the desk box. Actually, I have the molding done but the desk is build almost entirely from mesquite and the molding is cherry and I don't think what I have currently matches well. The leg korbels are cherry but they turned out fine, I'm just not satisfied with the molding and I don't have enough mesquite at the moment to make some.

Anyway, that will be fixed soon. Everything else is done - my first piece of furniture, I'd say 90% done by hand tools. Tons of mistakes, some really embarrassing ones because I am an idiot.

The design is from Jim Tolipn, PWW Feb. 2016 issue. He was kind enough to answer a few questions I had via email. He did this project using all hand tools and virtually no glue. I don't trust my skills like that and glued the hell out of it.

Pull-out shelves (ash) on both sides. Molding will be glued onto the edge when I finally get the @#$%! molding I like. Box is dovetailed. I would put 3 DTs on the front instead of 2 if I were to make another one. Drawbore pins on all the legs. Through tenons with ebony wedges on the bottom stretchers. 









For the top I used dark boards around a resawn lighter board. Someone told me - I like how you've got part of it like a darker outline around the lighter middle. Well yeah because I ran out of lighter boards because I screwed them up (Hello, moron!) But I didn't say that. I just said - mmm hmmm and moved along.

Well-built hinges from Horton Brasses. Cheaper in price than Brusso but the quality is the same as far as I'm concerned.










Hand cut, people. HAND CUT! I just noticed a scribe line for the first time. Oh well. It's funny how hand tool people want DTs to look perfect and power tool people want DTs to look hand made.










Bottom of the box looks like cedar from this photo but it's cherry with a lot of sap I didn't want to trash.










Korbel design. I'm too stupid to come up with this sort of thing, credit Mr. Tolpin.










Nailed some brass escutcheons on the ledger strip, which stops a pencil from rolling off the top.










Minwax antique oil finish, fancy pants Renaissance Wax.

I cringe at the mistakes that I will not show you. A few of them are flat-out horrific. I'll just let everyone assume from these meticulously cherry-picked photographs that I'm lying. But I have to be honest I am very proud and want to do more and improve.

Has anyone built a desk out of mesquite? If you have not, let me save you the trouble and tell you: don't. Holy crap, it is extremely difficult - grain changes, chip-outs, tearout, cracks, holes, etc. Had someone told me before this: "Hey go build a desk for the first time and be sure to use wood that will make you want to commit suicide", I would have said - no. The end tables I'm building now are cherry, I cannot believe how easy it is to work compared to the hell that is mesquite. I'd use it again for table tops. But I don't know if I want to M&T a base and legs with it any more, especially by hand. Machines is a different story but I have no real machines but a bandsaw.

Thank you for looking, I appreciate the talent here and it has been inspirational.


----------



## theoldfart

CT, it looks good in spite of your concerns. You did a fine job and thanks for the heads up on mesquite. I made a kerfing plane from hickory, probably not the best choice for a first try but it works.

So what's next?


----------



## ColonelTravis

What's next…. ugh.

Seven (yeah he said 7) end tables for various rooms in the house, built-in cabinets for the dining room, tons of picture frames, a flag box, mirror, coat rack, entry table. I'm stopping there for now I don't know when this construction will happen. I've done one frame and started one table. Here's progress on the end table, very simple job:










Cat inspector approved the work so far.


















I had intended these particular tables to to be wider and had a more ornate design that could only work with a wider top. But I had one wide-ish mesquite board that I thought might work for a top for two tables. The drawer will be about as narrow as I'd ever want it - 8" but it won't hold a lot of stuff so who cares. The drawer is I think 10" deep. The table top is almost 13" wide and the whole table stands 24" tall. Can't remember how long it is. Long enough to not look dumb next to the couch. The more narrow table will work well here with how our room is set up.

Top is mesquite (I'll use that stuff for a top. But a base? Probably never again.) I'm not epoxying the holes and cracks to make the top perfectly flat like I did with the desk. I just filled them in a little bit. The whole table base is cherry, the drawer sides, back and bottom are poplar.


----------



## CL810

Turned out very nice CT! Brave man you are, working with mesquite.


----------



## jmartel

Bed build has officially started. Have to work on the floor to cut tenons, unfortunately. Not going to be fun without a workbench, but it'll get done. Too big to use power tools. Posts are 6×6, rails are 4×6's. All the wood came from a timber framing company.


----------



## theoldfart

And I'm whining about having to make one more end table and finishing the dressing table! Your ambition scares me


----------



## PPK

I'm impressed, CT! The perseverance paid off. I don't know about you, but I really enjoy taking on a challenge and learning something new, or simply learning how to do a familiar thing on a different species of wood. In the end, there's that sense of accomplishment, right??

Jmart, dadgum - is that a bed for a giant??


----------



## PPK

Hey, Ive got a question for you learned fellers out there:
What is the most aesthetically pleasing way to make a wood arch? I'm referring to grain orientation on the arch top.
Like this??









Or should one glue up a wide board, and have ALL the grain running vertical?? Are there other options I'm not considering? Steam bending is not an option: this cabinet I'm building has a 4" wide face frame, and as such needs to be oriented flat. Arch top is approx 16" radius.


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## rad457

Depending on the wood I like the one piece design, 18 to 24" boards cut it from one piece? Or grain match and laminate boards together, just remember a smile not a frown?
I thought I was ambitious thinking about starting a small Key cabinet Krenov style, and expanding my pen making


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## MPython

I'm building a walnut slant front desk with French feet. I've been a fan of French feet on American Federal furniture for years, but I've never found a good how-to description for building them. A friend who posts regularly on another forum has done some nice pieces with French feet and kindly offered to teach me. So far, so good.

The process starts with cutting a deep (2 1/2") kerf on the bottom edge of the side panel, 3/32" from the outside face. I built a sled to support the panel and cut the kerf on my tablesaw. It was a nail biter, but it worked out well.

Next, I cut and refined the scroll shape for the legs.

The next step involves cutting a curved wedge insert that is glued into the kerf and clamped using the curved cutoff as a caul to form the outside curve of the foot.

A little hand work with a draw knife and a block plane and the outside profile of the foot looks pretty good.

To complete the foot, I have to apply a piece to the front that is shaped for the front and side curvature, but I can't complete this step for a while. First I need to install the drawer dividers, the top, the writing surface and bottom of the desk, the bottom apron and mill the applied pieces that will cover all the joinery. The pieces that are applied to complete the foot must match the thickness of all of the other applied pieces, so I have a ways to go before the feet are finished. I'm currently working on the drawer dividers and the top, writing surface and bottom. Much of this joinery is hand cut. I'll post more photos later if y'all are interested.

I'm new to the forum and I haven't figured out how to post explanatory comments between photos. All of my comments after the first one disappeared and the photos are bunched together as a group. I've gone back and cut-and-pasted my comments together at the top of the post with the photos at the bottom. I hope this is not too confusing and you can follow it.


----------



## CL810

MPython, I think I can speak for everyone - keep your posts and pics coming! Great looking work.

As far as pictures and text are concerned I have to click in the text area where I want the picture to go while the picture is uploading. If I don't catch it in time I just select the link, then cut and paste it where I want it to go.

P.S. looks like you're getting a good start on a hand saw collection. ;-)


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## CL810

.


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## jmartel

Woof, I don't think I'd want to do that table saw setup. Obviously it worked though. Looking good.


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## DanKrager

PPK, the door pictured has the grain orientation correct. It's not really optional. Besides minor aesthetic considerations, the main consideration is strength. One wide board would be very weak at the bottom where grain would pass through the narrow frame offering virtually no strength. Doors need all the strength and durability they can get, and still they have a relatively short life when exposed to weather like this one. Use the tried and true methods unless you are experimenting and prepared for the results. 
I have to build an oversize front door for a commercial office and am not looking forward to it. The original door has rotted and has 15 lites of beveled glass. They want to reuse the glass, and according to the sketch sent, no two are the same size. Or the user can't read a ruler! It's 60 miles away, so it's pricey.

Good luck
DanK


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## PPK

So cool! I had no idea this is how you made a "french foot"!! Welcome, MPython!


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## PPK

I think I've got a plan. It's actually not a door, see attached sketch. It's an insert. Goes in an alcove.


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## DanKrager

Like the plan, PPK.

MPython, that is going to be a real heirloom! Inspiring to see someone working.

DanK


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## ColonelTravis

PPK, that drawing reminds me of a non-bended chair arch. Like an older dining chair. I think it's a good approach.


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## ColonelTravis

> So cool! I had no idea this is how you made a "french foot"!! Welcome, MPython!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - PPK


Ditto on the cool, ditto on the welcome! Good luck MP. That will be a very nice piece.


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## JADobson

I've just started a new coffee table for the wife. Planning on a kumiko insert down the centre. Based on a design I saw in Fine Woodworking. So far I've just finished the kumiko and have started the top.


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## MPython

> I've just started a new coffee table for the wife. Planning on a kumiko insert down the centre. Based on a design I saw in Fine Woodworking. So far I've just finished the kumiko and have started the top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - JADobson


That's very nice! How long did it take you to do that?


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## JADobson

Not very long. Maybe 4 hours total (over a few days).


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## CL810

Beautiful JA!


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## MPython

Thanks for all the nice comments on my earlier post. I appreciate them.

I've cut the joinery for the drawers dividers for my Federal slant top desk and thought I'd post some photos here.

First I cut all the dividers to length and squared the ends on my shooting board. Then I cut a half dovetail on each end with a router and a 14 degree dovetail bit using a jig I made.

I made a short copy of the half dovetail to use as a marking template, and a paring block of hard maple. The paring block has one 90 degree side and one 104 degree side. The 104 degree side allows me to pare the 14 degree half dovetail socket when clamped to the workpiece.

I had previously cut housed full dovetail sockets in the case sides for the upper writing surface and the bottom of the case, and shallow dados for the drawer dividers and kickers. I will cut the full sliding dovetails on the solid panel writing surface and the case bottom later on my router table. Today, I'm cutting the half dovetail sockets for the drawer dividers. I made temporary spacers for the bottom and the upper writing surface that fit in the housed dovetails so I could get consistent measurements for the dividers. They will be replaced later with full panels for the case bottom and the writing surface.

I used the short copy of the half dovetail I cut earlier to mark the sockets for the drawer dividers on the case sides.

Then, with a back saw, I cut as close to the lines I marked as I dared, removed the bulk of the waste with a router plane and pared to the lines with a sharp chisel and the paring block. It is necessary to over cut the socket end line with the saw in order to get any significant depth of cut toward the back or the socket, but these over cuts will be hidden by the kickers when they are installed. The rear dividers are set back from the back edge of the case 3/4" to allow for a dado to accommodate the frame and panel back. The front dividers are flush with the front edge of the case.

The dividers fit nicely; and after they are all installed, my desk stands for the first time.

Once again, I had difficulty posting photos at the appropriate places in the narrative. They all ended up together at the bottom of the post. If anyone who uses Flickr to host their photographs has success posting photos in their narrative, I would appreciate your letting me know how you do it. I have tried every way I know to make make my photos appear in the text, rather than at the bottom, without success. If I post the URL Flickr provides, the URL appears in the text, not the photo. The only way I can make the photo appear in the post is to use Flickr's "Imbed" link, but it forces all of the photos to the bottom of the post. I can't seem to find the direct link to paste in the text that will make the photo appear there. I would appreciate any help you guys can give me. Thanks.


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## JADobson

Python that looks great. Good work.

It's all grunt work for me today as I prep the 8/4 ash planks that make up the rest of my table top. Jack plane and #7 are getting put through their paces.


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## ColonelTravis

Smooth as glass, James.

MPython - what I do with photos is ultimately download them to my PC desktop. Then I click the image button in the comment box and then I click the insert button wherever I want (or you can C&P the link and move it again). The photo hosting sites like flickr have multiple format links for photos depending on where you want to put them and I always forget which format works where. It's a pain in the rear, therefore I always dump them on my desktop to make it simple.


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## MPython

Thanks, Colonel. I didn't know you could post images directly from your PC. I'll give it a try. I've posted photos on other forums from Flickr with no problem, but their format doesn't work here. .










Seems to work fine. Thanks fort the help!


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## PPK

Oofda. That was stressful. Had to do the glue up inside, since the plastic resin glue says it needs to he at least 70 degrees.


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## MPython

PPK, just looking at that stresses me out! I'm impressed. Is that the crown for your alcove insert?


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## GrantA

I forgot to post here but I finally finished the desk I've been working on, here's the project post. I'm almost ready to start another for clear finish


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## Jared_S

My wife wanted a small table so I made this.


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## ColonelTravis

> Oofda. That was stressful. Had to do the glue up inside, since the plastic resin glue says it needs to he at least 70 degrees.
> 
> - PPK


In my garage, this has self-impale written all over it. I have backed my kidneys and shoulders and legs and such into so many #@$%! clamp bars that I forgot to hang up….


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## PPK

Haha. Yes, it is a hazard. And I have children running around. Nobody was hurt though. I unclamped it today, and it turned out really well. It is indeed the top of the insert I'm making.

Lot of awesome work going on. I like the table, Jared s. Really clean and well done.


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## Peteybadboy

Great Forum! Loved all the links in the first post.


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## ColonelTravis

> - Jared_S


Can you explain your bandsaw circle jig?


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## jmartel

Travis, typically there's a nail or a dowel that's used as a pivot point. You rotate the workpiece on that and you end up with a perfect circle.

https://www.familyhandyman.com/woodworking/woodworking-techniques-to-cut-circles-with-a-band-saw/view-all/


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## Jared_S

> - Jared_S
> 
> Can you explain your bandsaw circle jig?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


Yeah it's just a board with a pivot screw.


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## ColonelTravis

Thanks, I knew the basic idea but wondered if anything more fancy was going on. 
Great job on the table.


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## JADobson

I've got my table top finished and ready for stain (not the kumiko). Then I have to figure out what I'm doing for legs.


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## rad457

Table looking good, you must have a good supplier of Ash. Sure hope legs will be Wood?


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## MPython

JA, that looks really nice. Can't wait to see it finished.


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## jmartel

Looking great, JA.

Got the frame for the headboard dryfit yesterday. Hoping to have the frame ready for assembly in the next week or so. I'd like to have the bed done before the end of the month.


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## JADobson

Thanks. Andre - the frame legs will definitely be wood. I already have the ash for them. My wife just wants square and straight and I'm trying to work in some curves without offending her .


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## CL810

Incredible work going on here! Enjoyed catching up but only to realize that I shipped the desk I made for my son and forgot to take some pics of the finished project. Oh well, I'll see about getting him to take some and post later.


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## theoldfart

CL810, how could you? Now we'll have to deal with the depression from the let down. 

I'll bet your son is thrilled with the final product, it sure looked good during the build.


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## rad457

> Thanks. Andre - the frame legs will definitely be wood. I already have the ash for them. My wife just wants square and straight and I m trying to work in some curves without offending her .
> 
> - JADobson


I think maybe a slight inside taped could sneak by a casual glance? (perhaps a small foot?)


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## CL810




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## PPK

> Thanks. Andre - the frame legs will definitely be wood. I already have the ash for them. My wife just wants square and straight and I m trying to work in some curves without offending her .
> 
> - JADobson


My wife didn't think she liked the paint colors I picked out for our house (because she just never got around to choosing them herself) but once applied she decided she *did* like them…

I'd say curve away! lol.


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## derekcohen

I began this build about 6 weeks ago, and it has now reached about the half-way mark. The coffee table is for my nephew, a wedding present - the wedding is the beginning of February, so this must be completed over the next week (I am on leave at present, and in the shop every day).

My offer was open-ended: any piece of furniture, within a reasonable size (as it needed to travel from Perth to Sydney, which is further than New York to LA). They chose a coffee table. Looking at their taste in furniture, I sent them several photos of Mid Century Danish examples. They chose the photo below …










I must admit that my first reaction was "bugger … that is a challenge". Why? They liked Jarrah (I've been trying to move away from it to easer woods for a change), plus those curved ends would be "fun" to complete in solid wood! I worked out that the ends would need to be first mitred through dovetails, and then rounded. And then the legs are splayed into rails.

So … the build is in chapters on my website. There are five chapters up at this moment.

Introduction: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AnotherCoffeeTable1.html

Mitred Through Dovetails: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AnotherCoffeeTable2.html

The Drawer Case: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AnotherCoffeeTable3.html

Assembling the Carcase: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AnotherCoffeeTable4.html

Rounding the Ends: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AnotherCoffeeTable5.html

Currently …










Regards from Perth

Derek


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## PPK

Wow! Great work, Derek! What a kind uncle!


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## JADobson

I've been lurking on SMC watching you build this. Beautiful work.


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## builtinbkyn

Derek thanks for posting your project and the pics of the process, and for your more detailed explanation in your blog. A few weeks ago I started working on an idea for replacing a wall-mounted console in my foyer that was very dated looking and not to my taste. It was a 70s vintage piece that was lacquered in glossy pink. Not very appealing to my eye. It was a remnant from the original owners. For better or worse, that area of the house is covered with a textured, monochromatic wall paper. The wall covering actually looks fine, but where ever something was hung or mounted, there's damage that needs to be concealed.

So the plan is to make another piece to fill the same space with the dimensions governed by the prior console. I came upon some interesting walnut that I thought it would use, but I also have a few slabs of ash available that may become the wood of choice. This is a napkin sketch of what I arrived at so far.










Pretty straight forward - walnut carcass with zebra wood doors or drawers and one open shelf. The house is fully mid-century modern and I'm respecting that in what ever I do in terms of design. The design you're working on has given me further ideas. Again, thanks for posting and your detailed progress pics.


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## derekcohen

Do you have a base planned for this yet, Bill?

Here is the next chapter, "Building the Base" ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AnotherCoffeeTable6.html










Regards from Perth

Derek


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## kaerlighedsbamsen

Wow Derek that looks great. Perhaps a question of personal taste but this looks like it could be the finest of your builds. Looking forward to follow along!


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## PPK

Insert cabinet is coming along really well. Just ordered the glass for it this evening. Big $$$$.


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## builtinbkyn

> Do you have a base planned for this yet, Bill?
> 
> Regards from Perth
> 
> Derek
> 
> - Derek Cohen


No base Derek. This unit will be wall-mounted. But I'm happy to follow the next chapter along.


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## ColonelTravis

>


Excellent solution


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## derekcohen

*Finishing the base *

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AnotherCoffeeTable7.html










Regards from Perth

Derek


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## DanKrager

Is there a thread on this site that focuses on wood turning, like HPOYD is to hand planes? I see lots of short, individual threads, but I'm wondering about a long running one with focus.

DanK


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## putty

Good Idea Dan, there are a lot of turners out there.


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## CL810

Thanks Derek for posting. I've learned a lot from all of your postings.


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## derekcohen

Beginning to look like something ….










Regards from Perth

Derek


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## builtinbkyn

Derek that's looking fantastic. How will you be addressing the glide and stop for the drawer? Or does it not have one?


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## derekcohen

Hi Bill

I do not use glides in drawers. There will be a drawer fitted in the centre section - and hopefully completed tomorrow. This is constructed in the traditional manner, however. What's been driving me bonkers is the best design for a handle/pull. I have finally decided what I will do, but am happy to hear suggestions from all. The criterion is that it must not protrude at the front or clash with the shape of the carcase.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## JADobson

What about something like LeeValley's inset pulls (the bottom ones):


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## builtinbkyn

> Hi Bill
> 
> I do not use glides in drawers. There will be a drawer fitted in the centre section - and hopefully completed tomorrow. This is constructed in the traditional manner, however. What s been driving me bonkers is the best design for a handle/pull. I have finally decided what I will do, but am happy to hear suggestions from all. The criterion is that it must not protrude at the front or clash with the shape of the carcase.
> 
> Regards from Perth
> 
> Derek
> 
> - Derek Cohen


Hmmm. So the drawer will rest on the inside of the cavity? How will you maintain the even spacing of the drawer face within the opening? Maybe I'm not understand how you're going about this. I could just wait on the final episode


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## EarlS

Bill - My approach to drawers without glides is to use UHMW tape on the sides and bottom of the frame (box) to provide the gap between the drawer and the frame. It also keeps things sliding smoothly without the wood pieces sliding on each other.

I generally leave a little extra space for wood growth/shrinkage so the drawer doesn't bind on the sides. The top is open so it provides space for the top of the drawer. You can also cut the sides of the drawer box slightly shorter than the front face.


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## derekcohen

> What about something like LeeValley s inset pulls (the bottom ones):
> 
> - JADobson


Thanks. That gives me an idea.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## derekcohen

The second to last chapter of of the coffee table build: *Planning and Building the Drawer *....

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AnotherCoffeeTable8.html










Regards from Perth

Derek


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## DLK

*Derek*, very nice.


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## CL810

Great work Derek. Thanks for the tip on shooting end grain.


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## theoldfart

+1 on the end grain shoot process Derek. I do not understand what you mean by a double iron, can you explain?


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## CL810

My son picked up the desk yesterday and just sent this pic. This is Michael Robbins' contemporary desk in Fine Wood Working issue #270, October 2018.


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## ColonelTravis

>


Just beautiful. Great job.


----------



## theoldfart

That's just gorgeous Andy.


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## DLK

Also Derek thanks for the great tip on shooting end grain. In fact I had just read about it in your instructions for building and *Setting up and using the shooting board*, where there are other great tips. I built the shooting board your first describe and the donkey ear too. Made my first box with them.


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## derekcohen

> +1 on the end grain shoot process Derek. I do not understand what you mean by a double iron, can you explain?
> 
> - theoldfart


A "double iron" is just a way of referring to the combination of a blade with chip breaker. Setting the chip breaker close to the edge of the blade is a way of controlling tearout.

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## derekcohen

This was the model for the coffee table my nephew chose when I offered to build them a wedding present …










Let's see how we did ….

Before the coffee table was assembled from the parts, I was mindful that it would be shipped from Perth to Sydney (which is the further than New York to LA). The main concern was that the container might bounce (be dropped or be handled roughly), and the weight of the heavy Jarrah top coming down on the splayed legs might cause them severe damage. (I am not concerned about the strength of the legs for normal home use - the construction is strong. More shortly).

So, I build a table out of MDF that could be placed under the coffee table, and would take all the weight …



















The top and base were connected with steel angle brackets …










Part of the strength in the splayed legs comes from the corner brackets, which act to lock in the mortice-and-tenon joinery by preventing movement. These steel angle brackets further lock in the base from any possible twisting.

The brackets are angled to 10 degrees to match the inside of the rails …










Incidentally, the best, and cheapest, anvil is this section of steel angle, the insides of which are lines with Hard Maple scrap, and then clamped in the leg vise over a leg ….










The finish for the wood - Fiddleback Jarrah for the top of the carcase and the drawer fronts, and Jarrah for the base of the carcase and base/legs - was chosen for durability. It needs to be capable of resisting water marks and heat, and still have a natural appearance - not a sit-on-top finish, such as a poly or varnish. Most oil finishes are not durable enough.

What I went with in the end was Evolution (satin), a hard wax oil by Whittle. This is a floor finish, and in the examples I saw it looked more like a waxed oil finish. The reports and reviews were highly favourable. I must say, after using it, I was completely sold. It is fantastic! The surfaces were sanded to 400 grit (Abranet), and then two coats were rubbed on with a micromesh cloth, 8 hours apart. Any residue was removed immediately. There was no grain raising that I could detect, however I did rub down the first coats with 400 grit grey mesh.

The drawer case was waxed (only) with Lincoln Furniture Wax. This is a shellac-based wax. The inside of the drawer was finished with Ubeaut Hard Shellac diluted 50% with methylated spirits (alcohol). All of the above are Australian products. The interior of the drawer was lined in leather, which was waxed with Renaissance Wax.










This is a close up of the Evolution. It is so much nicer in the flesh. Silky …










OK, to the coffee table …

The front, with the drawer (and the agonised-over-drawer-handle-pull-whatever) ..



















The colour, figure, and those rounded dovetails look fantastic …










Other end …










The rear has a closed panel. At the start of the project I had planned to make the drawer run all the way through, and open from each side. On reflection, this created more problems than it was worth, and so the one side was closed in with the same panel used as a drawer front …










The Jarrah base and splayed, tapered legs …










Finally the drawer …

The drawer stop used was the same design as used in the Apothecary Chest. This is adjustable, which enable the position of the drawer front to be fine tuned …










The 10mm drawer sides are Tasmanian Oak, which I find great for this purpose as it all comes quarter sawn. It is a moderately hard wood (by Oz standards). Plywood was used for the drawer bottom, as it was inset in grooves and covered in leather. Jarrah cove moulding was made to finish.



















Inside there is an inscribed brass plate for remembrance …










Thanks for all the contributions and discussion along the way.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## JADobson

Fantastic Derek. Beautiful present that I'm sure will be loved for a long time.


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## theoldfart

Thanks for the clarification Derek. The table is beautiful.


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## DLK

Very very nice.


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## jmartel

Wonderful, Derek. Not my style, but it definitely looks great. And I love the grain in the wood.


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## CL810

Fabulous work Derek.

Thanks CT and Kevin!


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## rad457

Derek, Very Nice, funny I was thinking a Krenov style handle may work with that design, was thinking more at the top?
Do you build in a little resistance in your drawers, let go as Krenov describes?


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## mramseyISU

Derek - Thanks for making us all look bad.

Seriously thought that turned out great.


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## rad457

> My son picked up the desk yesterday and just sent this pic. This is Michael Robbins contemporary desk in Fine Wood Working issue #270, October 2018.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - CL810


Funny place to put a Desk? Guess being such a fine piece of furniture he whats to display it properly!


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## TopamaxSurvivor

> My son picked up the desk yesterday and just sent this pic. This is Michael Robbins contemporary desk in Fine Wood Working issue #270, October 2018.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - CL810
> 
> Funny place to put a Desk? Guess being such a fine piece of furniture he whats to display it properly!
> 
> - Andre


Looks like a good spot to me. Wish I found it under my Christmas tree ;-)


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## GrantA

Great work on that desk- love the figure on top! and Derek the table turned out amazing! I just ordered a little can of Fiddes Hard Wax Oil to try out thanks to you


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## CL810

I just ordered some Fiddes as well. On their website you can order 5ml samples for $3.00.

Desk location was temporary, lol! Thanks Andre, Bob, and Grant.


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## rad457

My "Wood Guy" sells Fiddles, picked some up a few years ago along with there buffing brush that he recommended,
Pricey little thing but boy what a nice job it does! Only tried a few waxes but the Fiddles the best so far? Only thing IMO better is OSMOs.


----------



## builtinbkyn

Derek the table is a beautiful piece of work right down to the finish. Here's praying the shipping gods are on the job! Thanks for the well documented build too.


----------



## TheFridge

> My son picked up the desk yesterday and just sent this pic. This is Michael Robbins contemporary desk in Fine Wood Working issue #270, October 2018.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - CL810


For a second I read that as he picked it up from an antique shop or something  I was thinking: damn Andy, your son has good taste. And then I finished reading your post and remembered you built that. Fine work.


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## TheFridge

Derek, I see a recessed pull. Parallelogram with the sides the same angle as the legs.


----------



## derekcohen

The drawer handle was a headache. There were many options, but the bottom line was that it had to blend in. The shape could replicate the outline of the legs, as you say - that is a valid form - or the cabinet, which is what I ended up choosing.

I must say that the recess was not my preferred choice, but eventually became one of necessity. I would have likd a more traditional pull, such as a wooden hinge, but anything sticking out from the front would cause damage to people walking by, blushing past. I thought of a campaign type folding handle, but it added another element, and it all needed to remain simple, in keeping with the Danish design (like Shaker designs) of minimal adornment.

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## GrantA

Question for any of you who have used Hard Wax Oil (especially Fiddes since it's what I bought)- it says to remove any existing finish. I have a small table top that has danish oil, and I have been meaning to apply paste wax on top. It seems that the Hard Wax Oil would be fine over danish oil but I'd love to hear from experience!


----------



## derekcohen

My deepest thanks for all the kind words.

This has been an interesting build (they have to be interesting, otherwise why do it?). A challenging design to reproduce with hand tools. The first time I had attempted mitred dovetails. That was interesting. It came together very satisfactorily in the end. I am in awe of the top - that Jarrah is simply stunning … far more so in real life where you can see the chatoyance and fiddleback.

A couple of better photos (perspective is everything) ..



















Thanks again.

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## MPython

> My son picked up the desk yesterday and just sent this pic. This is Michael Robbins contemporary desk in Fine Wood Working issue #270, October 2018.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - CL810


That's a beautiful desk! It caught my eye when I saw it in FWW. Nice work.


----------



## JADobson

That is a beautiful desk. Great work!

I'm working on legs for my coffee table today. One leg done (mortises cut, leg tapered), three to go:


----------



## CL810

Thanks Monty and JA.

Derek, the newest pictures do highlight the finish better.

I received my Fidde's samples yesterday. Now I have to decide on the sample pieces of wood to try them out on.


----------



## rad457

> Question for any of you who have used Hard Wax Oil (especially Fiddes since it s what I bought)- it says to remove any existing finish. I have a small table top that has danish oil, and I have been meaning to apply paste wax on top. It seems that the Hard Wax Oil would be fine over danish oil but I d love to hear from experience!
> 
> - GrantA


Have put in over Shellac, BLO and a lot of oil based stains so no problem IMO!


----------



## GrantA

Thanks Andre I'll give it a try!


----------



## rad457

Here is a Pic of that brush I mentioned, takes a while for it to break in and mine is getting close? Best to let wax dry thoroughly before using brush to buff up a nice sheen!


----------



## CL810

Andre, can you describe how you apply hard wax oil?


----------



## rad457

Fiddles is a hard wax Paste, OSMOs is a liquid hard wax that I use and highly recommend!
Big can liquid, I cut small chunks from the applicator pad and just rub in a few drops at a time,
goes a long way. Let dry a while 20, 30 min. buff then apply another coat repeat as many times as
you like or until you get the depth of finish you like. I usually let cure overnight then just buff
with a rag.
The small can is very concentrated almost jelled that can be used for repairs or small item,
I have used it on some pens, just put a drop on a rag and apply while on the lathe, did some
Teak and Mahogany pens that looked rather nice. Google OSMOS there description much
better than mine? This stuff very environmentally friendly and food safe I do believe?
Know some people that refinished their hardwood floors with it.


----------



## GrantA

Andre they may make a paste but this Fiddes I just bought is a liquid, I'm finishing up a couple things to try it on.


----------



## CL810

Thanks Andre.

Grant, I got samples of their tinted oils. I botched the test by excelling at stupid. I put it on too thick. Trying again.


----------



## rad457

> Thanks Andre.
> 
> Grant, I got samples of their tinted oils. I botched the test by excelling at stupid. I put it on too thick. Trying again.
> 
> - CL810


I sat in on a demo of the OSMOs by a company Rep. and I still tend to use too much? In my pic. that white thing in front is their applicator, you use a brush and transfer some oil to surface then rub it in with the applicator, some sort of woven material. Have to look at the Fiddles Oil, hopefully a bit cheaper than the OSMOs?


----------



## GrantA

From a quick look on Amazon which is of course not the end -all comparison, fiddes is $138-148 for 2.5 liters and osmo is $158. I bought a 250ml can of fiddes for $22 to try it out.


----------



## jmartel

Plugging away on the bed. Should be able to glue up the headboard tonight or tomorrow. Sanding is tedious work. 2×4's for the slats came out of the house during our remodel. Good quality old growth stuff.


----------



## jmartel

Headboard is assembled, glued up, and drawbored. A few more details left on it before moving onto the footboard and side rails. Easily over 100lbs already.


----------



## DanKrager

Like.

DanK


----------



## bondogaposis

I made a mortising machine! I made the Woodsmith mortiser. On my test run it worked really well.


----------



## CL810

That is so cool Bondo! Blog?


----------



## jmartel

So, being as I always have to think 2 steps ahead, I'm starting to plan the next build. I need to have a dresser/changing table for the future mini-jmart. The kids room is about 8.5'x12', but no closet. One idea that I'm thinking about is making a standalone box of a dresser that sits on a base, with a top that has rails to accept a changing pad. In the future when the kid outgrows it and needs hanging storage stuff, I can pop it off the base, remove the top, and put it into a built in style thing.

Here's a Thos. Moser piece that looks like it's built on the same principle of it being a box, separate base, and separate top.










Final form of it would be like this, but both wider and taller.










Wardrobe side would be taller for full length hanging stuff, dresser would remain dresser height so things could be placed on top.

Any thoughts? Pitfalls I'm not thinking of? Not sure on overall style at the moment, but maybe shaker-ish style would be my guess. I could also build a closet probably cheaper easier and faster, but the room feels way bigger without there being the closet.

EDIT: Or I could just build the whole damn thing at once. Would take more time, but probably a better result.


----------



## GrantA

I'll just say that I don't know anyone who has actually used a changing table. I'm 35 and have 2 girls 9&6, have neices & a nephew and none have. I definitely wouldn't let that influence a design. I think a wardrobe like you posted would be great!


----------



## woodcox

Modular with no closet in the room works, that will be a pretty useful piece for baby. The common pads are 30" long and I made the fence at 32". After a year, homeboy's favorite thing to do lately is kick the wipe warmer off the table while getting changed because he can reach it now. 36" would have been long enough to last him through needing it anyway.


----------



## jmartel

I've got 64" to play with on that wall, so I'm thinking 35-36" for the drawer bank, and the remainder for the hanging portion. Minus overhangs for tops. Drawer bank height would likely be about 36", same as kitchen cabinets. Good working height. Overall height would be whatever looks best. Maybe 7'?


----------



## PPK

> I ll just say that I don t know anyone who has actually used a changing table. I m 35 and have 2 girls 9&6, have neices & a nephew and none have. I definitely wouldn t let that influence a design. I think a wardrobe like you posted would be great!
> 
> - GrantA


Well,
I'll have to share the other side of the story: We use our changing table (dresser top) all the time. I've got 4 young 'uns and have used it for all of them. Only thing I'd do differently is maybe put a 4-point harness on there so I can strap down the boys while changing them… I'm only kind of joking ;-)

36" is enough width. Have an open base like you pictured so that you can stand up close (serves as a toe-kick). Mine doesn't and I don't like that I can't stand up real close to pin down the boys. But it is a bit nostalgic-y: TMI, but I'm pretty sure I was the one on top of there 30 years ago…ha!

Looking forward to what you come up with. Congrats on the Mini-Mart!


----------



## PPK

And Bondo - Dadgum! That thing looks amazing!


----------



## JADobson

Another dad here (4 kids) who used a change table. My only concern with making such a nice change table is to ensure that it doesn't always have to be a change table. All my kids were potty-trained by 2 (my wife is a miracle worker - I do nothing) so the change table was only really needed for 8 years. Your furniture looks like its built to last longer.


----------



## HokieKen

I've changed one diaper in my life. Table or no, that was disgusting. My advice is just put some plastic sheeting on all the floors and walls and keep a pressure washer and industrial wet/dry vac in the house until you can get the kid potty trained. And I wouldn't give it any more than 6 months. After that I'd just give that one away and try again.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Changing table? Haha, 
Sorry to vote against nice furniture - but that is perfect application for temporary use melamine laminated mdf furniture sold by Ikea.
FWIW - I used to keep a 3M respirator with organic vapor cartridge hanging on hook nearby changing table. 
Whenever mom wasn't home, dirty kid would bring me the mask and go hide in their bed room to let me know there was a problem. I thought is was good potty training, as they were scared of me in mask after awhile.


----------



## jmartel

> Another dad here (4 kids) who used a change table. My only concern with making such a nice change table is to ensure that it doesn t always have to be a change table. All my kids were potty-trained by 2 (my wife is a miracle worker - I do nothing) so the change table was only really needed for 8 years. Your furniture looks like its built to last longer.
> 
> - JADobson


Well, it would just be a dresser after the changing table phase is over. Just replace the top or make a cover for the changing years.

And that's a big no on the Ikea stuff. I'll use a plastic folding table that I already own before I do that.


----------



## PPK

What's the deal with gel stain? I just used it for the first time ever, and wasn't too impressed. It seems to take more to get the same coverage, and then you end up just wiping more off with the rag, making the rag soaked faster.
Am I missing the benefit?
I used Old Masters brand gel stain…


----------



## DLK

Good question. I used it onetime (I think the minwax version) and did not like the result.


----------



## putty

Is gel stain supposed to be wiped off?


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> What s the deal with gel stain? I just used it for the first time ever, and wasn t too impressed. It seems to take more to get the same coverage, and then you end up just wiping more off with the rag, making the rag soaked faster.
> Am I missing the benefit?
> I used Old Masters brand gel stain…
> 
> - PPK


Dislike gel stain. 
Only use it as tool to add depth by shading on second color. For this I wipe one little bit at edge details, and buff it out to get desired contrast. Not my preference in wood finishes. Primary use dark colors like expresso, or black for shading.
When I attempted to use it as base stain, only application method that sort of looked ok, was hand rubbed - like when using oil. Use a sponge, or pad and vigorously rub stain in circles into wood across/with grain, let it sit a few minutes until it looks likes it is starting to dry, then wipe off excess and streaking. Never seems to soak in to wood as well as liquid stain. Can take 2 coats for color matching to agree with the sample on sales sheets. Gel stains also show blotching 10x worse than liquid stain where you go use less when needed.

After making a few not so good looking items using gel stain, switched to dye stain and never looked back. Most of the dye stains sold in BORG stores is not a dye stain, but a pigmented stain just like classic oil stains; which hide wood grain if applied too heavy. A true dye stain like Solar Lux (Behlen's), Mohawk, or Transtint are significantly better at allowing true wood grain, while adding color.

Gel Stains? Just say no…..


----------



## jmartel

Coming up on the last bits of the bed before finishing. Need to do the mattress supports, the center rail, and a couple decorative things.


----------



## PPK

I started building the top for my dining room table. Think I'm crazy for using biscuits to align the glue ups? I counted, and i think there'll be around 100 buiscuits… I got 1/2 way thru routing them and thought to myself, "why aren't you just using some cauls??" Welp, may as well finish what I started.










However, I glued up the first section, and it does align them very well, and sanding will be minimal. I'm going to glue them up in sections of 18" or less so I can run thru my drum sander. Then I'll only have the final 2 joints to clean by hand.










Hey, anybody heard from BRK lately?
I miss hearing from the illustrious author of this forum!


----------



## Reinan

> I started building the top for my dining room table. Think I m crazy for using biscuits to align the glue ups? I counted, and i think there ll be around 100 buiscuits… I got 1/2 way thru routing them and thought to myself, "why aren t you just using some cauls??" Welp, may as well finish what I started.
> 
> ...
> 
> - PPK


I use biscuits to help align my table tops as well, and I also use some shop-made cauls as well. Works for me because I don't have a wide belt or drum sander, so all mine is done with hand portable power tools. I have an old Skil locomotive belt (4.5" x 26") sander that is my mainline top sander


----------



## DanKrager

I've made the mistake early on getting biscuits in the wrong place for cutting out leaves AND moulding the edges, especially on round or oval tops. Since those early errors (in the previous century) I've just used cauls. I built a take apart panel clamp rack that works very nicely for me. Not the best picture, but you get the idea. The cauls are cambered lengthwise about 5/16" in 39". It also doubles as a clamp rack.









DanK


----------



## PPK

Well, I did plan out the location of the biscuits carefully, so that I won't cut into any and expose them. I like your setup, Dan. Methinks your workbench won't budge. Ever.


----------



## DanKrager

Yes, it was hard to lift. But it's all different now with an adjustable height bench that is actually more reliable because it doesn't require wedges to stay put on the sort of irregular floor. Otherwise the same. Thinking about more changes …a leg vise and a wagon vise.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, that shop is much cleaner than the last time I saw it.

Survived skiing just fine, waist deep snow in places. I did do a face plant, no damage. And the car came home just fine, going back tomorrow!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Your a brave man Kevin!


----------



## ColonelTravis

> Hey, anybody heard from BRK lately?
> I miss hearing from the illustrious author of this forum!
> 
> - PPK


Agree. Have not, I've also wondered how he's doing. 
Never met him but I know he's a great guy.


----------



## ToddJB

He's alive and kicking. Posts on FB every once in awhile.


----------



## JADobson

Got the base for my coffee table build all glued up. Least stressful glue up ever. Didn't do anything different, it just came together nicely.


----------



## pintodeluxe

> What s the deal with gel stain? I just used it for the first time ever, and wasn t too impressed. It seems to take more to get the same coverage, and then you end up just wiping more off with the rag, making the rag soaked faster.
> Am I missing the benefit?
> I used Old Masters brand gel stain…
> 
> - PPK


I felt this way initially with gel stain too. Lately I've been using it a lot as a stain-over-dye technique. Brand makes a difference in terms of color and workability. I like General Finishes, especially their Antique Walnut color gel stain. If you apply it over a seal coat of shellac, the color is easier to control.

Nothing beats the simplicity of oil stain and a simple top coat. However, it is fun to play around with different finishes. Jeff Jewitt spells out the basic idea in various books and Fine Woodworking articles. Many of the products he mentions are no longer made, but the concept is the same. Transtint dye, shellac seal coat, then gel stain as a glaze. Top coat of your choice. It's a horribly complicated and labor intensive process, but it yields a beautiful finish.

Cheers


----------



## PPK

I got my display cabinet installed this weekend. It turned out ok, except that the glass doesn't open the full 90 degrees due to the way the hinge are configured.


----------



## rad457

That looks awful Purity! You sure the door opening wasn't a design feature? Perhaps to prevent door from swinging to far?


> ?


----------



## PPK

> That looks awful Purity! You sure the door opening wasn t a design feature? Perhaps to prevent door from swinging to far?
> 
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> 
> - Andre
Click to expand...

Ha! Yeah, I like that way of framing it! Seems like I can't ever get something done without an oops (or 2 or 3) of some sort or other.


----------



## PPK

Hey Fellers,
I've got the skirt attached to my table top with figure 8 fasteners. Do you think that figure 8's allow for enough wood movement on a 36" span like this? I only started to think about this AFTER the fact. (Each half of the table is 36" ACROSS the grain. It's tapered from 42 to 45" WITH the grain)

More picture explanation: 
The tabletop is upside down right now. The two leaves are sitting loose in place between the top. The skirts are 3 pieces joined together to make a "C", and then fastened on all 3 sides with figure 8's.


----------



## PPK

I *did* widen out the inset like the below picture to allow the fasteners to swing…


----------



## Lazyman

Note that with the boards running side to side rather than lengthwise, most of the movement will be in the length. In fact, I am not sure that the figure 8's will provide enough movement, especially on or near the ends. You may want to make sure that you securely attach the top to the aprons in the middle of the length to make sure that you only get half of the total move at most on each end.


----------



## EarlS

You should be OK with figure 8's. The wood movement should only by fractions of an inch. If you are worried about movement, there should be sites that provide wood expansion/contraction.

Take a look at this: Wood Movement

Wood Moisture Calculations

The Shrinking and Swelling of Wood and Its Effect on Furniture


----------



## DanKrager

If you secure the top firmly to the apron in the middle of the crossgrain apron's length, then the movement at each end will be 1/2 the total movement. Do the math for the species to determine an estimate for how much that 1/2 distance will move. Figure 8 fasteners will not be the best choice for the end aprons in this scenario. I would use wooden blocks with fingers in a slot near the top of apron to hold the end aprons so they can slip back and forth as the top breathes. It is traditional to leave the aprons shy of the leaf joints and cover the resulting span with a short vertical molding to give space for top and leaf expansion without the risk of holding a leaf joint open.

You going to use wooden slides too? Nice project!

DanK


----------



## bearkatwood

Izzy Swan from youtube came up with some nice table clips that allow for more wood movement. I have used them and been happy with them. You could possibly just trade out as they are about the same as what you have currently.
Izzy Skirt Washers


----------



## PPK

Hmm… That's a great suggestion to fasten in the middle and allow movement either way. I'll do that. 
I did the math on it, and figure that I'll potentially end up with 3/8" of movement over the 36", so 3/16" on either side of the center fastener… Pintodeluxe did a table top very similar to this in the same way with figure 8's, and he said it's holding up very well.

I'm using Pottker brand metal equalizer slides like this: 









I 'spose I'll have to slot the fastening holes in these where they attach to the top.


----------



## JADobson

Z clips might be a good choice over the figure 8s in this situation. They are my preferred method of attaching a tabletop.


----------



## HokieKen

I agree with JADobson^ I would use Z clips or button clips:


----------



## waho6o9

Doubled up dominos works well.


----------



## Lazyman

Pete, is the 36" the width of the table or the length of the half? Because you oriented the grain so that the grain runs side to side, you need to compute the expansion based upon the length of the table or at least the length to the break for the leaves (which may be similar to the width). Wood movement along the length of boards is so low that it usually negligible so can usually be ignored, even more so when the length is oriented across the width of the table.

Maybe I don't understand your question but you cannot use oversized holes in the wood to attach the slides because it needs to be tight enough to support the weight of the table and everything on it. If the holes in the slides are not elongated, again because most tables have the grain running along the length where expansion is negligible, you may have to elongate the holes in the slide and/or use a slightly smaller diameter screw. You may have to use washers depending upon how large the holes and screws are.


----------



## stefang

Why have a special forum? I would suggest you just post some blogs showing your work process. It's always interesting for we who aren't making furniture and you will get greater exposure that way and maybe encourage others to get into it.

I gave up my subscription to Fine Woodworking quite a few years ago because they had become so specialized on furniture making that I didn't find it all that interesting anymore since other woodworking areas were being ignored. That however did not mean I am not interested in furniture making per se, but just wanted to see a greater variety of woodworking disciplines. We have that here on LJ, so I say let's inspire others instead of becoming too insulated.

No offense intended, just my opinion.


----------



## CL810

I've used Rockler's table top fasteners before and kinda like their simplicity. I used my biscuit joiner to make a groove in the apron and screwed the fastener into the table top.


----------



## PPK

> Pete, is the 36" the width of the table or the length of the half? Because you oriented the grain so that the grain runs side to side, you need to compute the expansion based upon the length of the table or at least the length to the break for the leaves (which may be similar to the width). Wood movement along the length of boards is so low that it usually negligible so can usually be ignored, even more so when the length is oriented across the width of the table.
> 
> Maybe I don t understand your question but you cannot use oversized holes in the wood to attach the slides because it needs to be tight enough to support the weight of the table and everything on it. If the holes in the slides are not elongated, again because most tables have the grain running along the length where expansion is negligible, you may have to elongate the holes in the slide and/or use a slightly smaller diameter screw. You may have to use washers depending upon how large the holes and screws are.
> 
> - Lazyman


36" long to the table split. (Cross grain measurement.) The table is 42 to 45" wide - with the grain measurement.


----------



## PPK

Thanks for all the tips guys. I'd promise to post progress pictures, but this table has been in progress for a couple years now, so it's safe to say it'll be awhile before the next thing happens.

Stefang,
I think its safe to say that the lot of us here just love makin' furniture, and like to hone in our skills on this particular topic. There are indeed a lot of other good boards on LJ's that cover other topics in the wide field.


----------



## Mean_Dean

Question for you guys.

Which is better for a 28" wide table top:

4 - 7" boards or

7 - 4" boards?

Thanks!


----------



## JayT

Whatever looks best and gets you better grain matching and appearance.

If all else is equal, I prefer wider boards and fewer joints to deal with, which makes glue ups and flattening a bit easier, IMHO.

Edit: And for a top that large quarter sawn is better for stability and movement, if that helps decide.


----------



## BlueRidgeDog

> Which is better for a 28" wide table top:
> 4 - 7" boards or
> 7 - 4" boards?


If I needed 28" of width and was at the lumber yard, I would take 7" and 4" boards that had the best grain from an appearance and stability point of view and mix them. From an aesthetics point of view I would avoid all 4" boards…just personally.


----------



## JayT

unjam


----------



## waho6o9

7 - 4" boards


----------



## CL810

Unless there are compelling aesthetic reasons, go with 7" boards. 3 joints are easier than 6.


----------



## rad457

The wood will tell!


----------



## Mean_Dean

> Unless there are compelling aesthetic reasons, go with 7" boards. 3 joints are easier than 6.
> 
> - CL810


Thanks, guys, for the input!

The issue I'm faced with is my 6" jointer.

My boards are 5/4×8" x 108". In order to joint/plane them, I'd have to rip the boards to 4", joint/plane, then glue back together.

I wonder if I could get a flat desk top by skip planing them?


----------



## PPK

Would you have to remove the guard on your jointer to do that operation? I'd probably not recommend it if so. I'd bite the bullet and just do narrower widths, getting everything as even thickness as possible, then use cauls for the glue up to make sure boards are all coplaner and you have to do less handsanding /handplaning. My 2 cents.


----------



## BlueRidgeDog

> The issue I m faced with is my 6" jointer.
> 
> My boards are 5/4×8" x 108". In order to joint/plane them, I d have to rip the boards to 4", joint/plane, then glue back together.


I would joint the first 6" of the board, then send it through the planner with a sled. Lots of videos out there on the technique. I have an 8" jointer, but still use the method for 10" or wider stock from time to time.


----------



## avsmusic1

> I would joint the first 6" of the board, then send it through the planner with a sled. Lots of videos out there on the technique. I have an 8" jointer, but still use the method for 10" or wider stock from time to time.
> 
> - BlueRidgeDog


+1 to this


----------



## AlaskaGuy

> Would you have to remove the guard on your jointer to do that operation? I d probably not recommend it if so. I d bite the bullet and just do narrower widths, getting everything as even thickness as possible, then use cauls for the glue up to make sure boards are all coplaner and you have to do less handsanding /handplaning. My 2 cents.
> 
> - PPK


For those times you may need to remove the jointer guard you can make a clamp on a temporary Euro Style guard.


----------



## JADobson

She's not quite done yet but I've been itching to show off my latest build. Hopefully I'll finish it up in the next couple of days and add it as a project.

Please ignore the mess that is my shop…four different projects on the go at the same time is a bad idea!


----------



## CL810

WOW!!!

JA, that is way cool. How did you learn to do it?


----------



## AlaskaGuy

Nice!


----------



## DLK

Is that a chip carved *basswood* insert or some other wood? Looks cool.


----------



## bearkatwood

Usually not a big fan of kumiko, but I really like this. Nice work.
Long live steel city, nice jointer  Taking the guards off has its problems. Some of them can be finicky little buggers to get back on with the spring tension set right.


----------



## JADobson

Thanks guys, Brian is right, it is kumiko made from 1/8"x1/2" balsa strips sandwiched between two 8/4 ash planks and protected by glass. There is a sheet of plywood below the kumiko with rice paper glued to the top for some texture. CL810 I used Mike Pekovich's FWW article on making kumiko. Fairly straightforward once you build the jigs.


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen

Wow JADobson that is a great way to use kumiko, have not seen that before. Looking forward to see it done!


----------



## PPK

Nice work, JA! 
Spent lots of time cutting motises on the legs/trestle ends of the table this weekend. 
Had to use the drill press on some of the stretchers because they wouldn't fit in the mortise machine.


----------



## BlueRidgeDog

Though LJ is great, do you folks know if there is a forum specifically for furniture makers?


----------



## JADobson

That is a lot of mortises!

I didn't get to work on my coffee table at all over the weekend and it looks like the rest of the week is shot as well. Babysitting my 11 month old nephew while his parents are on holidays in Mexico. To make room two of my kids are sleep in the room right next to my shop. I've been forbidden from making noise!  Oh well.


----------



## rad457

I had to cut 16 mortises yesterday, made setting up the horizontal mortiser very worth while, not furniture related, Easter gift boxes for the wife to give away.  Good thing is I now have an excuse to go to Lee Valley to pick up some 
Milk Paint!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Hey, anybody heard from BRK lately?
> I miss hearing from the illustrious author of this forum!
> 
> - PPK


I'm still alive and kicking fellers. Just busier than a one-legged man in a butt kicking contest. If you've seen the winter and spring(flooding) we've had in the midwest, you can imagine my railroad management job was borderline miserable in Feb and March. Things are simmering down though.

I'm also now an elder and functioning youth pastor in our church. So ya, we keeps it busy. Here's a recent personal blog about that if interested: http://www.westfallwoodcraft.com/2019/04/make-best-of-it.html

I'm getting out to the shop just a bit. Still nursing this 3-pack of bookshelves. I've been trying to add some curves to my work, thus the bases. Man are they eating up the hours. Hoping to wrap them up soon.










Lots of good work in my absence. PPK seems to be hitting his stride. Cohen, Clayton, and MPython are studs.

JMart- diggin the bed build. I'm hoarding some walnut 2×12's with a platform bed build in mind for the next year.


----------



## jmartel

Thanks Red. Bed is on hold while I'm reno-ing my kitchen currently. It's basically ready for dye and finish, but I was waiting for the weather to warm up.


----------



## CL810

Don't feel bad Red, you're not the first to be fooled by trick photography. ;-)


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Trick photography? Please don't look if offended by topless photography. Ha! All that's left is a couple drawers and the tops for these bookcases. Feels good to make some progress because the curvy walnut bases ate up a lot of hours. At least that's my excuse for these bookcase being stagnant in my shop this past year;-P


----------



## rad457

BRN- Sweet, think I have a desk, matching bookcase and file cabinet in the plans for the near future, like the bases!


----------



## CL810

Real nice Red!


----------



## PPK

I like it a lot! What are the drawers for? I don't think I've seen a bookcase with drawers, but It'll look great when done I'm sure


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Drawers? You put your %$ETW in there…. lol. I just saw a bookshelf with a few drawers up high I liked in FWW. That's the inspiration for these.

Funny thing is, they're for my wife and two daughters. And the design of each reflects their personality: 
- wife, no drawers… just room for more books!
- younger artistic daughter… two drawers left of center
- older high maintenance daughter… two drawers, but symmetrical in the two corners

Ha. Good times. Tops and backs done. Drawers left.


----------



## CFrye

Red, I was going to ask if a step stool was included so your wife could get to those high drawers. But you answered that question!


----------



## Reinan

Been awhile since I posted anything, been busy with life and whatnot. Helping out a buddy to build his wife a shelf for their bedroom. It's 24×24 quarter round that he decided to use 1/2 birch ply for the body and shelves. I cut some strips of cherry to hide the plywood edges of the shelves (1/8") and some strips for the sides to hide the dados (1/4"). I clamped up all the shelves to give us a jig to bend the cherry shelf edges and have been wetting them while clamped and letting them dry for a couple days. Made up a quick clamping jig this morning and pulled a slat to see if this would work. Glued it up this morning using 18g brads on the corners (they will hide behind the side stiles). After a bit I used a flush trim router bit to trim the excess flush. It gapped a little more than I had hoped in a couple places, but I think with a little sawdust and glue mixture it can hide.

I'm going to try and get the slats to radius more before I glue up another. I think that's part of the reason I fought it so much and has as many gaps. I'll soak the slats down and clamp them back up, then 'borrow' the iron and steam them into shape. I hope that will make them round more and make the glue ups easier.


----------



## PPK

Bends like that are hard to do without a gap in the edging. Only thing I've had luck with is lots and lots of clamps…

Looks like they'll turn out nice!


----------



## JayT

How about using a ratchet strap to get more even pressure all the way around the curve. Haven't done a shape like that, but it works in my head.


----------



## bearkatwood

My first thought was some sort of caul to distribute the pressure evenly. Bow makers have a form where they use a firehose filled with air to give even pressure, but they may be over kill for this. I would think a caul should be good enough. Trouble would be having it cut out perfect enough that it fit the desired shape right.


----------



## PPK

> My first thought was some sort of caul to distribute the pressure evenly. Bow makers have a form where they use a firehose filled with air to give even pressure, but they may be over kill for this. I would think a caul should be good enough. Trouble would be having it cut out perfect enough that it fit the desired shape right.
> 
> - bearkatwood


Firehose filled with air to clamp… dang, that's a cool idea!


----------



## rad457

*Firehose filled with air to clamp… dang, that's a cool idea!*
Poor man version would be a motor cycle inner tube with some cardboard as a liner?
I haven't done that big of a radius yet but on smaller scale have used the cut off piece as caul?


----------



## Reinan

> How about using a ratchet strap to get more even pressure all the way around the curve. Haven t done a shape like that, but it works in my head.
> 
> - JayT


Thought about a ratchet strap, but my concern is that I'll get too much pressure on the outside corners causing the center to push out.



> My first thought was some sort of caul to distribute the pressure evenly. Bow makers have a form where they use a firehose filled with air to give even pressure, but they may be over kill for this. I would think a caul should be good enough. Trouble would be having it cut out perfect enough that it fit the desired shape right.
> 
> - bearkatwood


If I had a way to cut a clean radius that would match I would try it, the issue with that is I really don't. Plus the radiuses have some minor variations because they were cut out with a jigsaw and I think that is where the worst of the gapping is happening.

I used an iron to steam the rest of the slats I'll use for the edging, which helped to deepen the radius. Hopefully with a stronger curve I won't have to fight it as much to get it to conform. I'll have to try another one here in a couple days, my work week is going to limit my shop time this week.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Try finishing the cut with a router and a straight cut bit on a pivot arm. You can cut a caul with the same pivot, but make sure to retract the pivot point the same width as the cutting bit.


----------



## CL810

I always wondered….


----------



## theoldfart

yep, that's about right.


----------



## PPK

Made a little progress yesterday on my table.
Got the joinery cleaned up and dry-fit on the trestle ends:










And then I glued it up with some hide glue. (the legs are just clamped on temporarily to act as a straight edge to ensure the rail tenons stay straight/parallel while the glue sets)










Had help as usual


----------



## derekcohen

New build: Harlequin Side Table.

There are too many pictures to upload here, so go to my website: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HarlequinTable.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> I always wondered….
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - CL810


Thanks, I wondered where they found that stuff ;-)


----------



## JADobson

Always look forward to your builds Derek! This one is looking great.


----------



## bobasaurus

Pete, that's a fancy table. I like the double through mortises. Derek, amazing dovetailing work on such a long surface.

I recently received a medium-sized russian olive slab, going to try and turn it into a nightstand for my bedroom. Need to build a slab flattening jig and decide on a design for the base.


----------



## PPK

> Pete, that s a fancy table. I like the double through mortises. Derek, amazing dovetailing work on such a long surface.
> 
> I recently received a medium-sized russian olive slab, going to try and turn it into a nightstand for my bedroom. Need to build a slab flattening jig and decide on a design for the base.
> 
> - bobasaurus


Thanks Allen.

I'd love to see how the Russian Olive turns out. I cut and burn a lot of it in my woodstove, and have thought of saving a log or two to turn. It's quite dense, and pretty inside. My only problem is that it's so gnarly and never really seems to be any bigger than 8" diameter. Around here anyway.


----------



## PPK

Alright fellers, throw in your opinion, if you want.

I've got the stretchers for my table cut out with "double" tenons, and haven't decided how I want to secure them.










I'm leaning toward tusked tenons, but I've also thought about wedged. What option would you use?










I hope I got my terminology right.


----------



## JayT

I like either A or B. The single vertical would definitely be unique, just a challenge to get everything to fit exactly right.


----------



## derekcohen

Good seeing everyone busy building. Looking forward to more pictures.

Here is the next bit of the Harlequin side table: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HarlequinTableCentralDrawerBlade.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## derekcohen

And the latest article …

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HarlequinsidetableFine%20dados.html

Critique always desired.

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## rad457

PPK, I prefer the look of a raised and tapered tenon with a wedge?


----------



## CL810

Derek, thanks for posting. I get so much out of your blogs.


----------



## jmartel

Well I finally got some time to finish up the bed that I was building over the winter. Just waiting for poly to go on this weekend.


----------



## PPK

Nice lookin' bed, Jmart. Did the poly put itself on over the weekend?!


----------



## jmartel

The poly put itself on yesterday mostly. Got distracted with the newborn. Seems like she actually needs me to do stuff for her occasionally.

Will be moving the bed in tonight (after I call the neighbor to help since the headboard is about 200 lbs)


----------



## jmartel

Finished, and painfully moved into the house. Had to call the neighbor in to help. Sucker's heavy.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Looks great. I too seem to always build furniture a little on the heavy side. My first chest of drawers weighed 245lb. but it was over 5' tall, 3' wide and almost 2' deep, terrible proportions for actually storing and being able to find clothes.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Looks great. I too seem to always build furniture a little on the heavy side. My first chest of drawers weighed 245lb. but it was over 5' tall, 3' wide and almost 2' deep, terrible proportions for actually storing and being able to find clothes.


----------



## JayT

Well, it's got the cat seal of approval, so all is good, right? Looks great.


----------



## CL810

I like it. It goes well with the night stands. Didn't you make those a year or so ago?


----------



## CL810

DP


----------



## jmartel

Night stands were done in 2016 before we moved. I made a bathroom vanity like a year and a half ago in the same style/coloring.


----------



## derekcohen

Here are the next two chapters if the *Harlequin Side Table* build:

Rounding the Dovetails: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HarlequinRoundingTheDovetails.html










The Legs: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HarlequinSideTableTheLegs.html










Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## derekcohen

Here are the next two chapters if the *Harlequin Side Table* build:

Rounding the Dovetails: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HarlequinRoundingTheDovetails.html










The Legs: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HarlequinSideTableTheLegs.html










Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## Hammerthumb

There is an echo in here.

Looks good Derek & Jmart.


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen

Wow Derek, that looks great. Like how the legs transitions into the sides, good MCM feel about it


----------



## 1tacoshort

I've been asking tons of questions, here, on Lumberjocks and, finally, I finished my project. It's something like my 3rd project since high school some 40 years ago. I've learned a ton. Here's a picture of the finished project:










I've got some build pictures here.


----------



## PPK

Super build, Wade! Through tenons are indeed a lot of work. I'm making some of my own right now. Looks like your hard work paid off though. I like thru tenons also because there's no cheating them. You either did it, or you didnt! You can't do them with a domino machine or anything like that. I've seen furniture that has fake "tenon" caps , but they're pretty easy to spot.


----------



## 1tacoshort

Thanks, Pete! I started the mortises by drilling and cleaning them up with a chisel. Eventually, though, I got myself a dedicated mortiser. It didn't make them easy but it did help with the process. I see Paul Sellers do an M&T in about 2 minutes and I want to shoot myself.


----------



## CL810

My wife wanted an "end table" that was round and would rotate so she had lots of storage for books and knitting supplies. So after working out a design I set to work and did my first dry fit yesterday.










The turntable bearing is a 20" TamBee I purchased from Amazon. I went with a heavy duty one since I am not experienced in turntable bearings and wanted a high degree of confidence that it would last a long time. Might be overkill, might not. I'll get back on this in 20 years.










The finish I decided to use was in Fine Woodworking #273 February 2019. The wood is cherry and it is very reactive to lye. Two teaspoons of lye in 8 ounces of water produced this effect. The top half is just after the lye has been applied and the bottom half is after several coats of shellac.


----------



## HokieKen

Very nice Andy, that's a great design for a side table.


----------



## CL810

Thanks Ken.

Another journey has been playing with kumiko. Here is my first attempt. Thankfully pictures hide a lot of slop.


----------



## putty

Nice CL810 !!

have you seen Mike Farrington video's?


----------



## CL810

Yes I have but I didn't come across it until I bought Pekovich's jigs. I also watched Pekovich's video on his website


----------



## derekcohen

Installing the dividers: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HarlequinTableInstallingthedividers.html

Preparing the drawers: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HarlequinTablePreparingThe%20Drawers.html

Current state is the case and legs fitted with the dividers, with all the drawer parts ready to go.

This is the reason it is called the Harlequin side table. Case with drawer fronts (unfinished) ..










Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## PPK

Wow! That's striking, Derek! I understand the name now… was wondering. Fine work !I looked it up, because the Jarrah you're using looks just like the **************************************** I have. They're both a Eucalyptus species.


----------



## PPK

Both my wife and children have requested an end table for the living room. (Something about how I stole the children's play table to use as the end table.) Anyway, I've always wanted to try my hand at some inlay. Most of my furniture is Mission Style. Is there a good inlay pattern that goes well with this style? I guess it must not have really been part of the style, because I don't really see any inlays on Arts & Crafts / mission / Shaker… Except that funky Spades and strings inlay that I've seen on a bed. I don't think I'd be able to pull that one off.

Oh, one further thought: I've always wondered if it poses a problem to do a continuous string inlay *across* the grain. Does it prevent the natural wood movement/cause cracking/cause the inlay to separate? Say a longish run of 30"?


----------



## CL810

Pete, I heard Michael Forturne say the way he dealt with string inlay across grain was to break it up in the middle. He would have a couple of inches between the string inlay ends with a small round piece of inlay centered between them. Make the dashes solid lines and it would look like this.

-------------- o ---------------

I never figured out how movement was no longer an issue for the inlay segments but maybe they were short enough that it wasn't an issue.

Not sure if this helps, but it is the only thing I have ever heard on this issue.


----------



## HokieKen

Maybe if you glued the inlay pieces in with an epoxy or something silicon based the elasticity would allow it to float in relation to the movement of the main piece? I have absolutely zero experience, just shooting from the hip so take it for what it's worth.

Might hit up Shipwright if he doesn't watch this thread. He's a wizard with all things inlay as well as being exceptionally well versed in types of adhesives and their uses.


----------



## shipwright

Thanks for the nice compliments but I'm sorry to say this is not a problem I have experience with. Most of my work is marquetry not inlay, the difference being that the whole visible surface in marquetry is veneer. 
However, I can't see a thin strip of stringing causing a cross grain panel to distort. If the woods are reasonably stable I suspect you will have no trouble. 
That said, it's just my gut feeling.


----------



## DanKrager

Cl810, somehow I missed your end table post. That is a really nice one! A heavy duty bearing in this app is not overkill IMHO. Their bearings are dry and a bit noisy because of that, but probably not a concern.

1Taco, that is a great looking table you built there! Well done.

And Derek put some very interesting highlights on the "suspended box" table.

Following PPK to see how the cross grain inlays work out.

DanK


----------



## bondogaposis

PPK, get a hold of Bob Lang's book Shop Drawings for Craftsman Furniture. It has a whole section, 44 pages, devoted arts and crafts inlay patterns.


----------



## PPK

Thanks for the replies, Bondo, Dan, Paul. Bondo, it looks like there are two versions - an original edition with 144 pages, and a 2nd edition with 344 pages. Do you know which one I should get? I'd assume the 2nd edition would contain all the original stuff plus more, but you never know!

I think I may have figured it out. Looks like the 2nd ed is the way to to. Have a great week, guys!


----------



## bondogaposis

Get the second addition.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks for the inlay source bondo. I too struggle with A&C inlay designs.

Finally finished those 3 cherry bookcases recently. Only took a year or so. Ha!














































For the first time since we moved 4 years ago… we don't have books on the floor.

On to a oak hutch for a special lady who has been like a second mother to me. She's insistent on plain ol' red oak, but maybe I'll spice it up with an inlay.


----------



## PPK

Looks super, Red! I really like the figured Walnut… and the joinery is killer… yeah, great projects!


----------



## YouthfullMind

Excellent job! Great joinery


----------



## JayT

Beautiful work, as usual, Red. Glad to see you still dropping by once in a while.


----------



## bondogaposis

Those bookcases are really sweet. Excellent work.


----------



## DanKrager

Nice, BRK. Really beyond nice. Who gets to dust them? SWMBO can't reach the top, can she? 

I want to build some enclosed shelves for my Fine Woodworking collection. I'm leaning towards the kind where the door lifts and slides in. Barrister cases I think they're called. Has anyone built such?

DanK


----------



## CaptainKlutz

> I m leaning towards the kind where the door lifts and slides in. Barrister cases I think they re called. Has anyone built such?
> - Dan Krager


Barrister cabinets are easy, if you can get past the challenging hardware - IMHO.
Built two version's; one 25 years ago, and add on set 8-10 years later.

Fitting the top sliding doors requires great patience, regardless of slide method used. Wood slides are cheapest, but PIA to adjust if not made perfect 1st time. The expensive metal roller brackets (Rockler), or newest option - pocket slides are better, but still 'fussy' to install and adjust. 
If your slide movement is not perfectly smooth and consistent like that offered with pocket slide hardware, will also want an old fashion equalizer (scissor cross) bar to help keep the door sliding out parallel to the back/front of cabinet. 
Did I mention Barrister hardware is expensive? Flipper pocket slides are ~$40/door, and cheesy Rockler 3 shelf system is $80.

Enjoy the adventure!


----------



## CL810

I finished the end table today. I posted about this a few weeks ago, post #9771. After applying the shellac base coats I top coated with lacquer. I'm really happy how the finish turned out.


----------



## DanKrager

As well you should be CL810. Maybe you could be promoted to CL811 or CL812?

DanK


----------



## JayT

^ as long as he doesn't have a slip on the table saw and become CL911.

Nice work, sir. Finish definitely looks good in the pic.


----------



## CL810

Thanks Dan and Jay. My wife's fear of me becoming CL911 is why I have a Sawstop!!


----------



## derekcohen

A Harlequin is a comic figure, a jester, and fun. This side table is intended to convey a sense of fun.

"Harlequin" refers to the mix of timbers in the drawers. A harlequin design is often thought of as a diamond pattern, but does also include a rectangular checkerboard.

*Timbers*
The case is Hard Maple from the USA. 
The drawer fronts are Black Walnut, figured Hard Maple, and pink Jarrah. 
The drawer sides are quarter sawn Tasmanian Oak (for stability), and the drawer bottoms/slips were made from Tasmanian **************************************** (some contrast).
The drawer pulls were carved from some type of Ebony.

*Finish*
Finish was, initially, two coats of dewaxed UBeaut Hard White Shellac (the very faint amber adds a little warmth to the cold Maple), followed by three coats of General Finishes water-based poly (this remains clear and does not yellow the Maple. It also provides some UV protection. It is hard wearing, which is necessary for a side table).

*Construction*
The construction features mitred and rounded through dovetails, and a bow front and back. 
Eight drawers featuring compound dovetailing to match the bow front. 
The drawers are traditional half-blind dovetails at the front and through dovetails at the rear, with drawer bottoms into slips.

About 2 months to build, mainly on weekends.





































Here is the rear of the table (which will be seen through the windows, which run floor-to-ceiling along the family room …










The pulls were shaped from what-I-believe-to-be-some-type-of Ebony …










The obligatory dovetails …










Do you think that anyone will notice that the drawer bottoms run sequentially? 










And this one is for Bill, who was concerned that the chamfers at the end of the drawers (to ease entry into the case) might impair their extension …










A last look …










Thursday morning I haul the table to the Perth Wood Show for the annual furniture competition. Wish me luck.

The full build is on my website. Scroll down to "Harlequin Side Table": http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/index.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## Hammerthumb

Good luck Derek, but with your talent I'm not sure you need luck.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Looks like a complete success, Derek. Fantastic project.


----------



## CL810

.


----------



## CL810

.


----------



## PPK

Well, I got my "inlay" finished up. I wiped on some mineral spirits to see how it would look with a finish:


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Shoot dang. Lookin good Pete. Still thinkin on some inlays for my current build.


----------



## theoldfart

Well, it's deja vu all over again. My wife has another couch coming so it is time to make the second side table. The stock has been cut for a number of years, yea I know, so if I can remember how I did it i'm In business. Luckily I saved my drawings. The first one


----------



## CL810

Very nice Kevin. How about a few more pics? I looked for it in your projects and it's not there. Cherry?


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, I posted the build process on this thread in April, 2016.


----------



## wildwoodbybrianjohns

An old thread, I know, maybe I can revive it some…



















This is the type of thing I was doing before I decided to specialize in boxes. All of this olivewood was milled from what was going to be firewood. You experienced makers will spot the obvious influence in design. Due to my inexperience at the time, and the miraculous ability of olive wood to retain moisture, the slab used for the bookmatched top has since shrunk some and the seam has opened up about 2mm. So I will have to route a channel for a filler piece and add a bowtie or two. All the checks and voids were filled with tinted epoxy beefed up with talc powder.


----------



## MPython

That is a wonderful piece, Mr. Johns.


----------



## wildwoodbybrianjohns

Thanks, MPython. Your work is also awesome.


----------



## CL810

I've slept too many times since then…..



> Andy, I posted the build process on this thread in April, 2016.
> 
> - theoldfart


----------



## theoldfart

Ok Andy, i'll put together a project post. Probably should have done it years ago!


----------



## CL810

When inlaying a butterfly to stop a spot from growing , is there a rule of thumb for how deep the mortise should be?

Has everyone had a crazy summer as well? I'm just getting back in shop for the first time in over 2 months.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Not really sure Andy, but I think it would depend on wood thickness. I would shoot for 1/3 thickness on top and bottom of the board.
Sorry for you missing a couple of months, but I have not worked on any of my projects since I moved to WA last year. Finally got some time to work on the card table I started a while back. Shaping the aprons. 
















I'll be working on this a few hours a week until finished. The shop is about 5 minutes from the place I leased. I'm planning to buy up here in the spring, and would like to have this finished as the next project would be setting up my new shop.


----------



## PPK

Wow, Hammerthumb! That's some amazing work on that apron! What have you got around the leg spindles? It looks like a brass collar, but how on earth would you get that on there?!?


----------



## HokieKen

That's some high-end stuff there Paul! Beautiful work man 

Andy, I don't recall where but I read somewhere to use 1/4 of the wood thickness for butterflies if the wood is dry. I generally just use whatever thickness is convenient for whatever thin stock I have laying around.


----------



## CL810

I followed Paul's advice and did 1/4" on both sides. I'm sure it will do the trick.

Amazing apron Paul!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks for the compliments guys.
Pete - that's a brass ring on under the leg block. I turned part of the leg to fit the brass with a round tenon above, and drilled a round mortise into the leg block and glued together. There is another ring at the foot which is a tulip foot made of Bubinga. And there is Bubinga applicays on the leg blocks (covered by the blue tape). I'll get some better pictures this week.
Again, thanks.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I went back to the shop for more pictures. I had posted the legs some time ago when I started this project. It's been so long that I had forgot that there were 2 more rings by the foot. Here is current pictures. Please note that none of the pieces are at a finishing stage. I need to carve some details on the aprons, and finish scrape and sand all pieces. There was a lot of corrosion on the brass as it's been stored for a while with no surface protection. I cleaned up the brass a little with 220 for close ups.


















































The tulip feet are Bubinga, as are the applicays. The brass inlays are 1/8" thick and we're carved with micro carving tools into the Bubinga. The flutes were hand carved into the African mahogany legs after turning on the lathe. The plan is to chemically stain the monogamy with potassium dichromate before assembly. I hope I get the color contrast between the 2 species that I'm looking for.
Thanks for the interest in my project.


----------



## TEK73

Whooww Paul, those are really cool. It will be very exiting to see the result with the finish applied!


----------



## Hammerthumb

So I started carving a little detail on the aprons of the card table:
















I think it will look better after final sanding.


----------



## CL810

Looks pretty good now!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Andy.


----------



## PPK

Looks great! I'd be nervous carving those aprons freehand like that… No risk, no reward!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Naw Pete. You dont have to be nervous. Just have to have someone me extra wood on hand. Actually, if I make a mistake, I can make adjustments. I just need to make sure all of the aprons match. I have the 2 side pieces complete, but I'm already thinking of some changes. I'll look to incorporate them after I carve the front and back. This is the advantage of self design rather than trying to copy a historic piece. Im not that good yet.


----------



## theoldfart

I built a new jig for the side table part two project.



















This is part one in its current home










the original jig was too bulky to move and overly complicated to use.


----------



## CL810

Simplicity always wins out, the side table looks great.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Took me a few looks to figure that out. Nice job OF. I did some work today and got the front apron bead detail carved. Not enough work to warrant another picture.
I did pick up a WS 3000 to help my carving tools sharp. That sure makes keeping a good edge less of a chore.


----------



## MrWolfe

Those legs look really sharp on that side table #1 O.F.
Great design and I like the simplicity but its very eye catching.
Jon


----------



## HokieKen

> Took me a few looks to figure that out. Nice job OF. I did some work today and got the front apron bead detail carved. Not enough work to warrant another picture.
> I did pick up a WS 3000 to help my carving tools sharp. That sure makes keeping a good edge less of a chore.
> 
> - Hammerthumb


I'd be curious how you use the WS to sharpen your carving tools Paul. I've tried using the chisel port with the slotted wheels and just using the top platen and haven't had good success with either on V tools or gouges.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Ken - so far I have used it freehand to repair a couple of damaged gouges and one V tool. I have also used it with leather and compound for stropping. I just got it so I have not had much time on the unit, but I do want to make an adjustable tool rest and buy the Tormex carving tool jig. See the video below.


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Paul. I was just curious. I have that bar that goes on the WS but find it kind of flimsy so I never got around to making/buying any jigs for it. I just go to the bench grinder for turning tools and oil stones for carving tools. I do love my Worksharp for anything with a straight cutting edge though!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Ken - my plan is to use ACME rod for the vertical height adjustment. If thick enough, it should provide some stability. I'll keep you posted when I get a chance to build.


----------



## HokieKen

Do Paul. My issue is with the bar being that long and cantilevered, I don't think there's enough rigidity in the connection between the threaded rod and the horizontal piece. If you do that part right (or just find a way to secure the other end) you'll be in business.


----------



## PPK

Does anyone regularly (or irregularly) use a tenon jig for the tablesaw? I'm wondering what the method is that returns the best results. Do you start by cutting the shoulders using the miter gauge and passing the stock horizontally thru the blade, then take the stock to the tenon jig and cut the cheeks? 
Or use a series of cuts in the vertical position in the jig to cut out the entire cheek & shoulder?

I used the latter method, and ran into the shoulders not coming out very nice. I have a TCG blade where the tri-cut tooth protrudes just a little more than the square cut teeth, causing the shoulder to be a little stepped. I didn't even try the ATB blade, as it would make all sorts of V's…

Previously, I only used the dado stack, and passed everything over it horizontally, but it too leaves a lot of saw markings, and isn't real great for thru-tenons. That's why I went the tenon jig route.


----------



## HokieKen

Pete - I use the tenon jig to cut the cheeks then a hand saw to cut the shoulders. I've also done it using the miter gauge on the table saw but I find I can cut the shoulders with a hand saw in less time than it takes to set the depth of the blade and a stop on the miter gauge. Lots of ways to skin that cat though. And of course if you're doing a big batch of parts, it's a different story…


----------



## PPK

Yeah, a lot of tenons to cut… Darn Mission style with lot of slats that I like…


----------



## rad457

I have the Delta rig and never used it for years, now couldn't think of not using it, I use a FTB 24 tooth blade from L.V. and use a marking gauge to set the depth on all the pieces which help with tear out on back side, cut cheeks last and usually by hand if they are on the smaller side and a chisel for final trim.
Reminds me that that blade could use a sharpening, as soon as I finish a night table for a granddaughter?


----------



## theoldfart

Making progress on the second side table. Chopping the angled mortices for the cross pieces.


----------



## PPK

I like! Shoot, next thing you know, you'll be featured on the front cover of Fine Woodworking…


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks for the vote of confidence PPK.

A little more progress


----------



## rad457

Dem braces look better than my finished projects!


----------



## TEK73

theoldfart, thanks for sharing.
It was very useful for me to see how your using support and clamps to square off the stand when mounting it.
I recently built a workbench and struggled quite a bit to get the stand square and stright. I think your pictures gave me some good hints about what could have been done.


----------



## theoldfart

A little bit of tweaking was needed, not bad considering I cut the stock several years ago


----------



## CFrye

> A little bit of tweaking was needed, not bad considering I cut the stock several years ago
> 
> - theoldfart


...in a very different location/climate, too!


----------



## theoldfart

Yes, that too Candy.


----------



## rad457

Nothing fancy, just a quick night table for a Grangirls Bday, she wanted blue but couldn't bring myself to do that to QSWO even if they were left overs. I did throw some blue stain on the inside. (out of sight)


----------



## theoldfart

Nice work Andre. I couldn't paint it either!

Working on the lower cross pieces. One done.


----------



## theoldfart

More progress


----------



## builtinbkyn

Nice work Kevin. I saw the other table. Is this an original design? Haven't clicked back far enough to see if that's the case or not


----------



## theoldfart

Bill, the design is mine.


----------



## theoldfart

Another progress pic, shaping the top cross pieces.










Rasps rule!


----------



## Brit

That's looking great Kev. It looks like it will be a really strong table.


----------



## PPK

Happy Thanksgiving (Late) furniture makers!

I was busy… Finished my end table: https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/412323

...and worked on my dining table: https://www.lumberjocks.com/PPK/blog/130372

(And ate a lot of good food with family!)


----------



## Hammerthumb

Looking good Pete and OF.
I got recruited for a surprise Christmas project, so my table is on hold. Can't post any pics of what I'm working on until after Christmas.


----------



## GrantA

Looking great everyone! I'm finally finishing up a coffee table for my home, to match a sofa table which took me forever too :-/ funny how our own projects can so easily be pushed aside. 
Got the frame all glued up today, missing/incorporating the big nail holes was fun! The drawer front has 2 of these big holes in it, I will check my lines 3 times before I cut those dovetails, hopefully tomorrow 

















I have been unsure what I wanted for a drawer pull, nothing elaborate that's for sure but I also wasn't keen on cutting away drawer front for a recessed pull. I let inspiration strike and knocked this out on the bandsaw- I think I like it! Ended up with one crack so I packed it with CA glue and left it for tonight.


----------



## PPK

Grant, Cool beans! It's looking really good. Sorry if I missed the backstory, but what's the history of the lumber you're using? It looks like old doug fir…


----------



## GrantA

Thanks Pete, it's old growth heart pine, the legs are from some 2" stock I have while the top and aprons are from resawn beams with the big nail holes. It'll match my sofa table









I'll put up a project post for the pair as soon as the coffee table is done.


----------



## DLK

Thats a very nice looking sofa table. I look forward to seeing the coffee table.


----------



## PPK

Finish is going on the dining table! (Danish oil so far)


----------



## PPK

So I'm doing the math…if I get one coat of varnish a night, and I've got 2 weeks 'till Christmas… I think the table TOP will take probably 6 coats to get a good build that's fairly resistant to children… Is a week of cure time enough for poly???? (My goal is to get this darn thing into the house and seat my family around it for Christmas!)


----------



## GrantA

I'm not sure on that Pete (looking great though!) but I'm loving the hard wax oil that Derek turned me onto!

I have some Fiddes brand that was recommended and also some Briwax brand, I'm using the Briwax on my coffee table. The frame has one coat wiped on, I'll build up a layer of thinly rubbed coats on the top.

Here's the frame with the drawer fitted- I'm very happy with how this is looking.


----------



## jmartel

6 coats seems like a lot. I don't think I've ever done more than 4. But I haven't built a large table that kids intend to sit at.


----------



## bigblockyeti

jdaddio, wait till the little one gets bigger, kids can destroy *ANYTHING!*


----------



## HokieKen

Like your bank account. And peace of mind. ;-)


----------



## DanKrager

I have a 52 year old set of 6 salad bowls I turned in 1967 with only two coats of poly and they still look new.
Save your poly. Subsequent coats don't bond all that well anyway. Probably never give you an issue, but just know that the finish is in distinct layers mechanically bonded.

DanK


----------



## PPK

Awww, man! DanK, now I'm not sure what I want to do… 
I built my set of 3 hickory bar height chairs mid-2016, using 1 coat danish oil, 3 coats Arm R Seal, and the chairs are wearing like iron. I may just stop @ 3 coats.

My dear wife has kindly reminded me that no matter what, the top will get messed up, and that I can re-finish it no problem…


----------



## jmartel

> Like your bank account. And peace of mind. ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


That already happened when the wife decided to quit after kiddo was born.


----------



## HokieKen

> Like your bank account. And peace of mind. ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> That already happened when the wife decided to quit after kiddo was born.
> 
> - jmartel


It doesn't matter how much you make from here on bud, you'll never have any more. It's amazing how they suck it up ;-) I keep bumping up my retirement savings hoping I'll have some after I retire. If not, at least there's death to look forward to…


----------



## bigblockyeti




----------



## PPK

Yeeeah! I love Jim Gaffigan… Another good one is this feller… Michael McIntire.


----------



## Hammerthumb

So as this Christmas present was delivered today, I can finally post. I helped my buddy and his daughter build this dining table for her husbands Christmas gift. It's my buddy Mike's shop that I have been working in since moving to Washington. I have helped him build the shop over the last 2 years, and have moved some of my equipment there (especially hand tools). His shop is only 5 mins from my house, so this works well for me until I buy my next property at the beginning of next year.
Mike's daughter had a red cedar tree taken down 2 years ago, and her father in-law had a section slabbed up and stored in his barn. Mike called a few weeks ago and asked me to stop by and take a look at the slabs for ideas for a dinning table. His daughter had a picture of a live edge table, and I agreed to help them put it together, with warnings that the the material is rather soft for that use. They did most of the work, and did an outstanding job. I only have a couple of pics, but need to find one they took of the picture of our model in the foreground, and the finished project in the background. Here is what I have to show for now:































m








Thanks for looking.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Forgot to mention, while we were doing this in secret, Jennifer's husband had just started a beginners woodworking class. He will now have to make the bench seats for the table!


----------



## jmartel

Looks great, Paul. I think a dining table might be next on the woodworking projects list after my chair is done.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Jeff.

I found a picture of the inspiration:


----------



## AEVilleneuve

That's a Marc Spagnuolo (Wood Whisperer) build

https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/the-not-so-rustic-rustic-outdoor-table/



> Thanks Jeff.
> 
> I found a picture of the inspiration:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Hammerthumb


----------



## Hammerthumb

Did not know it was a Spagnuolo build. Thanks for the link AEV!


----------



## GrantA

Looks great Paul, nice fit in the space too! I think that gets overlooked too often

Today seems to be a good day to button up my coffee table! Hopefully I'll have some pics of it in the house later, I think I'll wipe one more thin coat of hard wax oil on the top. 









I refined the drawer pull and stained it for some contrast too


----------



## GrantA

Finally done! I got the coffee table inside the house tonight and took a couple pics of it next to its matching sofa table. I'll get it situated where it belongs on the other side of the couch in the morning and work on a project post


----------



## Hammerthumb

Nice work Grant!


----------



## CL810

Paul you are a committed enabler putting your time in to encourage future woodworkers! Nice table as well.

Beautiful coffee table Grant. Love the pull!


----------



## Hammerthumb

I do my best Andy.

So I am back on my project now. Cleaned up the apron tenons and cut the leg mortises. Here is a dry fit.


























I ordered some potassium dichromate for the monogamy. I'm going for a rich dark color. I have no experience with PD and was wondering if anyone has any tips?


----------



## rad457

*I ordered some potassium dichromate for the monogamy.*
Looks good, no advise, but the Wife watch's some show called Sister Wifes, maybe it could help explain things?


----------



## PPK

Wether that table ends up monogamous or polygamous, it sure does look right fine!


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks guys. I didn't notice auto-correct messed up mohogany.


----------



## rad457

Mahogany might be the wood you are thinking about?  Wife and Daughter are teachers please don't blame me


----------



## Hammerthumb

Your right Andre. No wonder auto correct kept changing it.


----------



## DLK

This made me laugh and wonder if there is pahlygany wood for those who are more open minded.


----------



## Reinan

Been a hectic year for me with over 200 hours of OT, but have still managed a couple smaller projects. My buddies wife asked me to make this record holder for his small collection of LPs and 45s as a Christmas present. I made it would of some Padauk shorts I found on sale locally. I used a simple box joint to join the outside to the bottom and a dado to hold the center support. Finished it with amber shellac after a ms/blo coat.



















After they got it home and set on top the small bookcase that was the intended stand, they decided that would like a short stand to go with it. I had some Padauk left over that was enough to do the legs, but I thought that some curly maple from my scrap pile would be a nice offset. I'm not sure why the design came to me, but the concept looked good in my mind. Plus I had to attempt something I've never tried before; angled tapered legs. So I started working on this:


----------



## CL810

Nice Russ. I really like the stand - the maple is a great contrast.


----------



## rad457

Design looks quite interesting, but I'm of the thought, complementing contrast is in the eye of the beholder? Wonder how it will look when joined together? Just my random thoughts


----------



## PPK

I really like both the stand and the box!! Great work


----------



## Reinan

> Nice Russ. I really like the stand - the maple is a great contrast.
> 
> - CL810





> Design looks quite interesting, but I m of the thought, complementing contrast is in the eye of the beholder? Wonder how it will look when joined together? Just my random thoughts
> 
> - Andre





> I really like both the stand and the box!! Great work
> 
> - PPK


Thanks guys, not everyone is a fan of highly contrasted wood combinations, though I find myself gravitating towards them. In this instance, I felt like it needed a visual divider between the darkness of the record holder and the stand. Hence the use of maple for the stretchers and the Padauk for the legs. The maple is highly figured and adds visual interest in my opinion.

Here are a couple shots after the first coat of shellac highlighting the grain.


----------



## rad457

Pictures rarely do justice to the subject! The Shellac really helps that figure stand out. I have been going through a lot of Krenov's stuff lately and for some reason a lot of it stuck in my head That table saw sure looks a lot like mine.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

Nice project. Those two should go together very well.


----------



## SpartyOn

Very nice! I think they will look great together.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Good work Russ!

So I did some more inlays of some 3/4" curly maple on the aprons of the card table. This is still just dry fitting. I have 2 brass Fleur de Lis to inlay into the maple ovals. Speaking of contrasting colors, I plan for the top to have curly maple and Bubinga field with mahogany boarder.


----------



## jmartel

Looks great, Paul.

Getting there with my morris chair build. Both side assemblies are mostly done, just need to cut the top curve once I laminate the arms.


----------



## GrantA

Excellent work fellas! Russ the contrast looks awesome and I can't wait to see it all together 
Paul you're just showing off now lol and rightfully so!
The arm panel for the Morris chair has some damned sexy grain in it!


----------



## PPK

Dang, Jmart, that's some nice lookin' G&G style you got goin, plus some wild grain!


----------



## PPK

Not nearly as classy as y'all, but I've been cutting out parts for a set of 6 dining room chairs. 
Legs:








Seats:


----------



## Hammerthumb

Looks real good Jmart.
Chairs are no small task, be it dining or Morris!


----------



## GrantA

Nice Pete! I just got myself a copy of Chairmakers Notebook so I can study up on that art

I'm almost finished with the "quick & simple" (ha! Nothing is quick) nightstand I'm making. I like the way it's turning out though. Just have to trim/profile the top and the bottom shelf (stained red oak to match a desk I built) then time for finish. The frame gets the paint you see here on the drawer front


----------



## morgann32

BigRedKnothead, thanks for sharing the photos.


----------



## dbray45

Paul - that is going to be a seriously nice table


----------



## Hammerthumb

I hope so David.


----------



## derekcohen

There are three articles on my website documenting this build. It began late November 2019, however I have just returned home from a month travelling around Austria and Germany, and just resumed (article 3).

1. Preparing and dimensioning stock: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/EntryHallTableForANiece1.html

2. Start of mitred dovetailed casework: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/EntryHallTableForANiece2.html

3. Fine tuning of mitred dovetails and completion of case: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/EntryHallTableForANiece3.html

Current state:










Hopefully this will open up discussion about design, joinery, methods of work, etc.

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## GrantA

Thanks Derek I love reading your articles, will check them out this evening!


----------



## dbray45

Derek - Took a look at your web site on this case. Very nice and well written. Great content.

One thing that I do - which it looks like you do as well - cut the thin side of the pins first, toward the inside of the cabinet. This way I do not over cut the visible pins and there is no string from the rip saw to tear away. Keeps everything a lot cleaner.

Nice work!


----------



## rad457

Great job, I just started to use the blue tape on Dove tails and very impressed with the process and results! 
Even make my Wood butchered D.T.s semi okay


----------



## derekcohen

> Derek - Took a look at your web site on this case. Very nice and well written. Great content.
> 
> One thing that I do - which it looks like you do as well - cut the thin side of the pins first, toward the inside of the cabinet. This way I do not over cut the visible pins and there is no string from the rip saw to tear away. Keeps everything a lot cleaner.
> 
> Nice work!
> 
> - dbray45


Thanks David

I always saw dovetails from their face side, that is, where they will be visible. Such as the outside of cabinet and the inside of a drawer.

When removing waste, I always chop to the baseline from the non-show side first, and only half-way through the board, and then finish from the show side. This is to prevent any accidental skipping over the baseline on the show side. (see article 2)

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## derekcohen

> Great job, I just started to use the blue tape on Dove tails and very impressed with the process and results!
> Even make my Wood butchered D.T.s semi okay
> 
> - Andre


Andre, the blue tape really helps in many areas. This is most evident when you have 70 year-old eyes! 

Incidentally, the blue tape method for dovetails was first used by myself. This was published on numerous forums and on my website at least 2 years before the FWW article.

If you are bored and desperate (!!) for reading material …

This was my original article: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HalfblindDovetailsinJarrah.html

Here are my last articles on …

Through dovetails: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ThroughDovetails3.html

Half-blind dovetails: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HalfBlindDovetailswithBlueTape.html

Mitred through dovetails: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AnotherCoffeeTable2.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## rad457

*Incidentally, the blue tape method for dovetails was first used by myself. This was published on numerous forums and on my website at least 2 years before the FWW article.*

Nor sure when or where I first came across this method but after recently reading Mike Pekovich's Last book it interested me enough to give it a try. I was formally introduced to Dove Tails by one of Krenov's Apprentices. 
Will check some of your suggested reading material time allows


----------



## GrantA

I just delivered the nightstand nightstand I've been working on (to my daughter's bedroom). She's a happy customer!


----------



## derekcohen

Very nice, Grant!

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## derekcohen

Part 4: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/EntryHallTableForANiece4.html










Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## rad457

Nice night stand, even with the paint 
Looks like Derek making me do some more reading?


----------



## derekcohen

Two more articles, for each of the weekend days ….

Drawer dividers and dados: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/EntryHallTableForANiece5.html

Tuning, re-doing and glueing: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/EntryHallTableForANiece6.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## CL810

Who knew Thomas Moser had week long Customer in Residence program ?

I'm looking for sponsors!!!


----------



## jmartel

Nice work, Derek.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Finished the last brass inlays for the base. Not perfect, but this is curly maple that I will dye. I hope it blends the outline of the lnlay a little better.


















Tuned up the m/t joints a little for a dry fit. Tomorrow I'll do final sanding and scraping. If I have time, I'll start the color process.


----------



## JayT

Impressive work, Paul. That table's going to be a showpiece.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks JayT. Don't know about "showpiece", but this table may break Stef's record for longest build. Looked for some Transtint dye today. I guess I'm going to have to order online or drive down to Seattle.
I spent this morning repairing my ham radio antenna. A wind storm last week broke it right before my trip to Las Vegas.
Gonna head to the shop in a bit for some sanding of the base pieces. Don't think I'll have time for any coloring anyway.


----------



## bondogaposis

That is going to be a nice table.


----------



## CL810

Great work as always Paul.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks guys.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I dig it Paul. Good to see you chipping away ol' friend. Is there anywhere on the web that shows how you do those metal inlays. They can't be melted in like some of the others I've seen?

Currently I'm stumped on something I've never run into - how to do an inlay a piece that is stained? I realize I could stain the door (in this case) first, but I've always planed and scraped my inlays smooth. I would then have to redo the stain while trying to keep it from staining the inlays. How's that gonna work?

Gettin savvy with my bench here…


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Red. I actually carved the recess for the brass inlay. The brass is 1/8" thick. I trace the outline with a fine tip pencil and carve on the inside of the pencil line. I have a lot of micro carving tools as well as regular carving tools. A lot of dry lays until it almost fits, then apply adhesive and tap them in with a mallet. If I'm lucky and get it most of the way in, I put little 1.5" c clamps and squeeze it the rest of the way. It never sets perfectly flush, so when it's dry I file and sand it flush. These were a little more difficult as the medallion has a slight radius all the way around so I had to pre-bend the brass a little to keep it flush while I traced the pattern.

As far as inlays with stained wood, I have had limited success by sealing the stained portion with shellac. You really can't scrape to get flush, but if it's close you can lightly sand being careful not to remove to much of the shellac. If the shellac gets thin, reapply over the stained part with an artists brush. Eventually you can get it close enough to apply a few coats of shellac over the plain wood and then level with a sanding block. Use fine grit paper and go slow. And as I said, limited success.


----------



## rad457

Watched a inlay demonstration awhile back, they used a Dremel with fixed base. Setting the dremel bit to the exact depth of the inlay then using CA glue made it almost perfect. Ordered a base for my dremel and may give it a try as soon as I can walk out to the shop again.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I have heard of that and thought of trying it out, but also do not have the base. Let me know if you try it.


----------



## PPK

To brighten your week:


----------



## rad457

Sure hope he has steel toe boots and hey, where are the safety glasses?  See some dust, no respirator? Pretty sure in California this is Child endangerment? Think he needs a loader!


----------



## Hammerthumb

He's growing up fast Pete!


----------



## derekcohen

Next two chapters of the niece's entry hall table …

Drilling leg mortices for tapered sliding bases: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/EntryHallTableForANiece7.html










Tapered sliding base socket: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/EntryHallTableForANiece8.html










Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## BigRedKnothead

> Watched a inlay demonstration awhile back, they used a Dremel with fixed base. Setting the dremel bit to the exact depth of the inlay then using CA glue made it almost perfect. Ordered a base for my dremel and may give it a try as soon as I can walk out to the shop again.
> 
> - Andre


Dang. I probably don't have the finesse other possess doing inlays. Mine are always beefy and whacked into place. Then I have to plane 'em flush.

I could use dark woods (ebony, walnut) that the stand wouldn't affect. Shoot, I dunno.


----------



## rad457

Thought about trying it on this box but need to pick up some bigger pieces of brass, all I have on hand is 1/2".
Only has a wipe of BLO so if I can get some wider 1/16" or 1/8" stock may try to inlay the # 45 on the front.
Was in a hurry to get it of the bench 
Need a little more Finesse myself, maybe Derek can send a little our way? Sliding Dove Tails always intrigued me, may have to try it someday LOL!


----------



## DLK

I like making a duplicate of the Stanley label, gluing it on, and then over coating with a clear finish. Sort of a non-obsessive decoupage, I guess.


----------



## rad457

> I like making a duplicate of the Stanley label, gluing it on, and then over coating with a clear finish. Sort of a non-obsessive decoupage, I guess.
> 
> - Combo Prof


LOL! I had the cardboard box in my hand, almost cut it up to attach to the wood box. My Demel base arrived so when I make some time need to practice Still trying to find some 1/16" bits!


----------



## bigblockyeti

The inlays I've tried have mostly failed, sometimes miserably, this cheese board pictured below was the exception. A circle guide with a 1/8" bit made a groove I could slowly plane my inlay wood down to a little at a time.


----------



## jmartel

When I did big inlays I would just hit it with a belt sander to flush it up


----------



## Hammerthumb

So I spent some time cleaning up the brass work on the leg corner inlayed medallions, and the flower feet. After 2 years and a move from Las Vegas to Washington, they were overdue for a sealcoat.








So during cleanup, I was reminded of the power of wood expansion due to increased moisture content in the wood.








I had 2 of the 4 brass sleeves at the bottom of the flower feet that cracked. I'm sure I have some of the same brass tubing, but it's packed away somewhere. The search is on! Here is one of the flower feet that survived.


----------



## jmartel

Bummer, Paul. Western WA definitely is more humid than Las Vegas.


----------



## DLK

Cut an expansion slot in the brass and make it look like it was done on purpose. Or cut 3 and epoxy and or pin the three parts on.


----------



## DanKrager

*Hammerthumb*, here's a suggestion from my experience that will prevent wood expansion from bursting your ferrules. At least none of mine have so far after many years. After you carve shallow flutes into the tenon so it looks like a fluted (not spiraled) joint dowel, press the ferrules on with a snug press fit slightly compressing the sharp flute peaks with a chamfer on the inside of the ferrule leading edge. When the wood expands it will have a place to go into the flutes but even a relatively thin ferrule is strong enough to withstand that. Yes, there is great hydraulic power involved!

DanK


----------



## DLK

*DanK* that is a great idea.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thanks Dan. Really didn't have that in mind at the time as I didn't know I would be transplanted to WA. Good thought for future builds no matter where you are.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Thinking about that recommendation, maybe a sawcut through the tennon would help?


----------



## DanKrager

*Hammerthumb* I chose not to do that because I was afraid that to be effective, the saw cut would have to extend beyond the ferrule. And it would present the possibility of the saw cut collapsing and letting ferrule get loose. This would be especially true if the humidity went the other way.

DanK


----------



## Hammerthumb

I'll give your method a try as soon as I find the material. Thanks Dan.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Here's my latest.


----------



## theoldfart

Hey, a new guy posted a project! 

Well done Red. Glad to see you producing again.


----------



## Hammerthumb

Naw, he's not new. I usta know that guy.
Nice project Red!


----------



## derekcohen

There is a full record of this build on my website. Go to the furniture build index, and scan down until you get to Entry Hall Table For a Niece: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/index.html

My niece is getting married at the end of March, the entry hall table she asked for is completed, and in a couple of days it will head off to Sydney.

This is the model for the table she wanted me to build, but to build it in Jarrah …










I needed to make a few modifications. The most notable were, firstly, that there are three drawers, where the model has two. With a little research, it became evident that the model was a "flat pack" build from a store in the UK, and it used slides and poppers for the drawers. Without slides, wide drawers will rack since the depth-to-width ratio is all wrong. Three drawers change this ratio and make it workable.

Secondly, building a drawer to ride wood-on-wood, one cannot use poppers - and so drawer handles are necessary. My niece was keen that drawer handles would not be seen, and I have done my best to make them unobtrusive.

Together with the desire to avoid drawer handles, there was also the request to make the drawers appear to be a single piece, rather than drawers separated by drawer dividers. The fact is, we had to have drawer dividers. So, to hide them, drawer fronts were given lips, with a lip covering half the width of a divider. In this way, the dividers could double as drawer stops. Making lipped, half-blind dovetails was a first for me. In the end, they were not too bad.

The case of the original table is mitred, and this is likely butt jointed and supported with either dowels, biscuits or dominos. My choice was to use mitred through dovetails, both for their strength and also for aesthetics. Although I have done a number of similar cases in recent years, this joint is one where you hold your breath until it all comes together. Then you wonder what the fuss was about 

A fifth change was the attachment of the legs. The model likely used a metal screw per leg, which was common with Mid Century furniture. I wanted something stronger and durable so, in place of this, my decision was to stake the legs into a thicker base, which was firmly attached to the underside of the case with tapered, stopped sliding dovetails. A bit more work, but I will sleep better at night.

At the end of the day, it resembles a box, and only a woodworker will recognise that it is a very complex box. 

Okay, here it is. It is photographed in my entrance hall ....










The wood is fiddleback (curly) Jarrah.


















A close up the waterfall on one side …










... and on the other …










The obligatory dovetail shot …










Those drawers! The lipped drawer fronts are 20mm, with the drawer sides 1/4". The back is 15mm thick. The thin sides necessitated drawer slips. These were beaded to create a transition from slip to drawer bottom. The drawer bottoms are 1/4". The wood used here is Tasmanian Oak.





































Since the case and internals are build from hard Jarrah, the underside of the slips was given a Jarrah slide to improve ware properties.










As mentioned earlier, the aim was to present a single board at the front …










Here may be seen how the lips share the drawer divider and use it as a drawer stop. The spacers at the side of the case are half the width of the dividers as they do not share two drawers.



















Now those drawer handles …

I tried to keep the design as simple as possible, and used the same wood as the drawer fronts so they would blend in. The upper drawer shows the finger grip on underside of the handle …










Drawer extension is good - about 80-85 percent …










The internal bevels around the case …










... maintained a straight edge to the drawer line. Plus the gap between the drawers (about 0.5mm) ...








https://i.postimg.cc/wB43LFKc/24a.jpg[/img[/URL]]

Near-to-last, the case back: this is made from the same Jarrah - one never knows if the piece will end up against a wall or out in the open.










Someone will ask if the brass screws were clocked … of course they were! 

And a final photo to provide some scale. This is taken with a chair I built a few years ago …










Thanks for coming along for the ride.

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## rad457

Very Nice, no problems with humidity changes causing stuck drawers? I try to use Krenovs fitting method were they get tighter the further they are pulled out and in our climate when the humidity goes up the drawers get real hard to pull all the way out. Believed he called it Let Go?


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## Hammerthumb

Derek - excellent job…as always.


----------



## derekcohen

> Very Nice, no problems with humidity changes causing stuck drawers? I try to use Krenovs fitting method were they get tighter the further they are pulled out and in our climate when the humidity goes up the drawers get real hard to pull all the way out. Believed he called it Let Go?
> 
> - Andre


Good point.

Wood expands across the grain. I leave 2mm open at the top of the drawer front and sides. That is sufficient to avoid any tendency to stick, and the gap is unnoticeable.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## JayT

Lovely work, as usual, Derek. A wonderful heirloom piece for your niece.


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## BigRedKnothead

Derek, that's a fantastic piece.

Thank Kevin and Paul. I'm not as prolific a woodworker as I once was, but I still knock some stuff out. I just need to do a better job posting it. It's accepted and encouraged here, but in some mediums people consider it 'showing off.' Which makes me conflicted at times I confess.

Anyway, here's a guitar pedalboard I made a buddy. We still need to install the electronics now.


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## CL810

I read Michael Pekovich's book "The How and Why of Woodworking" and decided to make one of his wall cabinets from the book.


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## theoldfart

Wow!

Is that window lattice kumiko? (sp?)


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## rad457

> I read Michael Pekovich s book "The How and Why of Woodworking" and decided to make one of his wall cabinets from the book.
> 
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> - CL810


Very nice! I thought the same thing after reading his book, even made up the jigs and did some practice pieces,,, then side tracked again to stuff like fire wood which turned out a saw horse(Oak) was to be built, then all this wood(Oak and Maple dunnage)I got started to get milled so now a smaller Bench for my lathe! Oh ya a couple dozen pens for an order which is now cancelled. Guess that is why the lathe gets a new bench?
PS: Is the door supposed to open backwards?


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## BigRedKnothead

Outstanding Andy. I love the Kumiko stuff.


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## CL810

Yes Kevin, it's kumiko.

Andre, not sure what you mean about the door opening backwards.

Thanks Red.


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## rad457

> Yes Kevin, it's kumiko.
> 
> *Andre, not sure what you mean about the door opening backwards.*
> 
> Thanks Red.
> 
> - CL810


For some reason all the small one door cabinets I have made all have the doors swing from right to left? 
Had to look through Pekovich's book and check, yup his swing same as yours, even looked at some of the 
ones Krenov built and yes a lot of them swing right to left? Guess since the first cabinet I made was influenced 
by his design I assume that is the way to do it?


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## DanKrager

The door swing of a cabinet, well any door for that matter, is a combination of factors. Three major ones are preference, clearance, and regulation. Given that no clearance or regulation issues are involved, the dominant preference of right handed people seems to be to open the door with left hand and grab what's behind it with the right hand, sort of "ready for use". That would seem backwards to a left hander? Possibly, but it also might be a matter of historical experience. That's my understanding, and YMMV.

DanK


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## theoldfart

Slow but steady progress on the side table.










Oiled the top










Should be out of the clamps tomorrow, trim the bamboo "nails" and on to final fitting and finishing.


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## DLK

I like the table top, but I am not sure about the legs. LOL


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## theoldfart

Yea, the camouflage is a bit much. I'll ditch the scaffolding tomorrow!


----------



## CFrye

Kevin, I think Don was referring to the legs with the round stretchers. LOL


----------



## Hammerthumb

Top looks great!


----------



## theoldfart

Ah, age related stupidity on my part. 
I think my glass of Cabernet has had an effect! 
Also in a food coma, chicken Marsala.
Ok, that's three excuses. I'm done.


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## DLK

Hehehe…


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## theoldfart

He who laughs…........ ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Ok, correct legs now.










Full frontal view


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## DLK

wheet whooo… look at those gams..


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## rad457

> Ok, correct legs now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Full frontal view
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> - theoldfart


That is worthy of this forum! Not sure about the messy bench?


----------



## theoldfart

It is a WORKbench, right?

Thanks for the compliment as well!


----------



## BigRedKnothead

I really enjoy that design Kevin.

Found out I will be getting one week of paid leave each month for the next 4 months (economy tanked). My woodshop will likely have an active summer.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, I suppose that's a good news/bad news kind of deal!

The legs are oiled and getting a sun tan.


----------



## ToddJB

Red, how does a paid leave help your company/economy?


----------



## BigRedKnothead

My bad, wishful thinking. It's a week of UNpaid leave each month. So ya, 25% or so cut in pay. But at least we get the time off instead pay cut a work anyway.


----------



## CL810

^ Flagged


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## CL810

No, Red, wasn't flagged, a spammer was and their post has been removed which, of course, makes it look like I flagged Red.


----------



## theoldfart

It is done.



I had to make an update on the one I made a few(several) years ago and managed to do it upside down! Post a pic or two after the repair is done. Sheesh!


----------



## theoldfart

The second project that has languished for years.










I need to complete the drawers, carve and attach knee blocks, make the top, and (sigh) carve a shell on the lower middle drawer. Piece of cake…........uhuh!


----------



## Hammerthumb

You got this OF. It's a race to see if you finish the chest, or if I finish the card table. Course you're retired so…


----------



## theoldfart

Ya think? Will have to cut back on naps but I'm game!


----------



## jmartel

OF gettin 'er done.

I'm not sure if I've been posting this in here or not, but here's another update on my G&G morris chair.










Ready for bending arms hopefully this weekend.


----------



## PPK

OF, you got it… 
Jmart, that's sweet. You can see the figure really well in the rough, I can only imagine what it'll look like with some finish!


----------



## jmartel

Thanks Pete. I'm looking forward to sitting in it. Going to order fabric for it today.


----------



## theoldfart

JMart, are the front legs tapered or curved?


----------



## jmartel

Curved. The 2 closest to the camera are at least. I had to remake the far ones so they aren't curved yet.


----------



## theoldfart

I feel better, thought my eyes were going since they didn't match!

Beautiful work.


----------



## jmartel

No deceit here. I tend to skip around on projects with an ADHD sort of organization/path. As evidenced by how messy the shop is.


----------



## theoldfart

Sounds like home.


----------



## theoldfart

Getting the drawer bottoms fitted, took some time to reorient myself on where I left off.










Bottoms are 1/2 pine fitted to a 1/4×1/4 groove.










The plow plane is an M Copeland circa 1850-60 from Huntington, MA.










Just the lower middle drawer left then on to knee blocks.


----------



## theoldfart

Took way too long to carve this and I need to do five more. Each one is custom fit, gonna be a while.










And it goes here


----------



## DLK

The second one will go quicker and third even quicker…. then you'll get over confident and screw up the fourth one and start drinking.


----------



## theoldfart

Sounds like the voice of experience, but, your are correct. I will do that since that's how I roll!


----------



## theoldfart

Getting better at using the bow saw, cutting right to the line(almost), less time with the rasps.










Three down, three to go


----------



## jmartel

Looking good, Kevin. Its interesting to see what parts you worked on in what order, based on the coloring of the cherry. Also, post #10,000.


----------



## theoldfart

JMart, legs first since they are frame for the rest of the carcass. Then front, back and side panels. The front and side panels along with the drawer fronts are from one plank to keep the grain continuous. After that the inside frame. Carcass glue up was next then the drawers. Knee blocks now then the top and finally a shell carving on the lower middle drawer.


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## rad457

> Looking good, Kevin. Its interesting to see what parts you worked on in what order, based on the coloring of the cherry. Also, post #10,000.
> 
> - jmartel


I thought he was adding some Fangs to make it look mean?


----------



## theoldfart

I was all set, tools and the like all lined up. Carving started, the field for the shell was done.










Then I f0ck3d the whole thing up. #&%$*it

I have my practice piece, just have to clean it up and do the half blind DT's.

Rats!


----------



## Mosquito

Every time I visit this thread, it makes me wish I did more actual woodworking…

Lots of good stuff. Table's looking great OF, and JGrain that thing will look awesome with some finish I'm sure


----------



## theoldfart

The backup plan is now the primary.










Carving is my great challenge.


----------



## theoldfart

Getting there, not overly happy with the shell, not enough skilz on my part.










Still need to do the half blinds on the center drawer then on to the top.


----------



## Hammerthumb

I think it looks fine Kevin. 
Couldn't see the problem with the primary though.


----------



## theoldfart

I'll post a pic Paul, had a "few" errant gouges.

Edit:


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## DanKrager

Hey, Kevin. You've got a tremendous good start on an ambitious project. I admire your tenacity to "git-r-dun". It will be a true heirloom.

May I share a bit of carving advice I took to heart and it made all the difference in my success carving. First, there is no tolerance for a pseudo sharp gouge with microscopic rounding. They must be honed to a shiny intersection of two FLAT planes at 30° or less (less is better for pushed gouges). A technique I adopted from Mary Kay made all the difference in the quality of my results. In short, technique has to do with how the gouge is held and pushed through the wood with great power and control, ALWAYS "pressing" the grain, almost never against it.

If you are right handed, put your right hand in your back pocket and grasp the gouge with left hand wrapped around the tool with the joint between handle and tool in the middle of your grip. With that wrist planted firmly on a surface (may be the carving itself) apply the cutting edge, bevel first, with an outward twist of the wrist, right hand still in pocket! This process seems to be the basis for control of the stroke and preventing the push too hard-skip-DAMKHIT. After you get comfortable taking little cuts where you want them, then apply more power and steering control with the right hand on the end of the handle. Right hand has to co-operate with left in steering. If a skip-out should occur, the wrist support should dampen it. Long smooth cuts leaving crisp clean surfaces are the result of a smoothly and powerfully steered cut, perhaps frequently shifting the wrist contact. It takes awhile to condition muscles to the feel of it, so rest often. If the cut requires grunt level power, then the cut is too deep.

Good luck,

DanK


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## theoldfart

Thanks Dan. I have been feeling the need to try an acanthus leaf of late so mentioning Mary May is fortuitous!

The screwed up carving above happened at the end of a four hour session confirming your advice.


----------



## theoldfart

Got some fine tuning done on the drawers and shell carving.










Starting on the top shortly.


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## Hammerthumb

Looking good Kevin!

I finally sent this on it's way. Furniture that weighs twice as much as me is not my cup of tea, but it's done.










Needs a little more buffing out, but they wanted to get it home before it rains. I'll post a picture of it in place when they get it installed. Never thought I would do live edge, but have now done 2 pieces this year.


----------



## rad457

That is one beautiful table Paul! That slab is worth about 5 to 7 thou. around here


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## theoldfart

I have a question. The plans i'm using call for the drawer bottoms to be nailed to the drawer back. I think I'd be more comfortable using a screw and elongating the hole to allow for wood movement. The bottom grain runs side to side so movement would push front to back.










Over thinking on my part?


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## rad457

Yup, use small brass screws if really concerned.


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## theoldfart

Thanks Andre.


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## bondogaposis

Nails have a little more give than screws. I guess it depends on how deep the drawer is as to how much movement to accommodate.


----------



## PPK

If it were me, I'd nail or screw the FRONT, and let it seasonally move in and out on the back!


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## DanKrager

I'm with PPK on where to fasten the drawer bottom. Isn't it traditional to secure in the front on a setup like that?

DanK


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## rad457

> I m with PPK on where to fasten the drawer bottom. Isn t it traditional to secure in the front on a setup like that?
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Traditional the bottom would slide in from the back allowing the replacement if necessary, held in place with 1 or 2 small screws or a wooden stay?


----------



## theoldfart

It has been made in the traditional way. 1/4×1/4 dados, beveled bottom. There's not a lot of room on the drawer face to get a nail/screw, mid point in the dado would be 1/8" from the edge. The drawer back is a full 1/2" thick so better purchase. I'm going with a brass slotted screw and will elongate the hole.


----------



## PPK

I built a lovely painted fridge surround cabinet, delivered it and set it in place last night… all to find it was about 9" too wide… who makes fridges at 36" wide anyway?? I never thought twice as I happily built it to 44" wide…










It even has cool roll-outs.










Then to add injury to insult, when we were hauling it in, the door flung open and snapped off right at the cope & sticking joint. Oh well, I have to cut up the doors and shorten them anyway…

Good taste of humility. Oh well, better too large than too small, right? I can chop the right side off, shorten & reassemble. Unfortunately I have experience with this!


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## DanKrager

So do I, PPK. So do I.

DanK


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## theoldfart

Well, I've never made a mistake. Well maybe a few. More than a few? Ok,ok, a lot!

Pete, please post a pic of version 2.0.


----------



## bondogaposis

Oh man, PPK that hurts. Measurement is the root of all evil.


----------



## rad457

What is a Mistake? The wife sometimes says something about that when she is talkin about me? Just curious who, could afford a 44" fridge and stock it, heck my 36" is usually pretty empty these days, dang that a lot of Beer


----------



## DLK

Our fridge is 24" wide. Just saying.


----------



## Hammerthumb

> What is a Mistake? The wife sometimes says something about that when she is talkin about me? Just curious who, could afford a 44" fridge and stock it, heck my 36" is usually pretty empty these days, dang that a lot of Beer
> 
> - Andre


I can drink that much beer!


----------



## rad457

> Our fridge is 24" wide. Just saying.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Not sure the trailer/motorhome counts

No furniture being worked on but the boss requested some shoe shelves for the closet, then maybe a little stand for the record player? Oh ya a new Garden shed?


----------



## theoldfart

Ever notice the honey-dos breed faster than rabbits?


----------



## bondogaposis

Three legged coffee table.


----------



## bondogaposis

Further progress, here. Ebonizing with ferric acetate.


----------



## PPK

Bondo, I'm really curious to see how that thing goes together. My small mind can't imagine how those joints go together and it makes a 3-legged table…


----------



## bigblockyeti

What grit did you sand it to before ebonizing? I was practicing with a 1 3/4" red oak dowel and sanded it on the lathe to 400G then burnished with a handful of shavings for a very smooth finish. It didn't want to readily soak in any of the ferric acetate so it took six or seven applications to start to get it dark.


----------



## bondogaposis

I sand to 180 grit then applied dark tea to the wood let dry, lightly sand with 220 grit then apply ferric acetate.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Wuddup fellers? I knocked out a chest for the widow of my buddy we lost to a brain tumor a few years back. She wanted something to hold his things. Hard to say 'no' to that.

Walnut and cherry. Came out pretty well. Emotional piece to build though. 

























On to the next thang. Guy dropped off these crazy planks. He thought they were teak. Definitely not after ran them through the planer. I'm thinking paduak, it's just not quite as orange as some paduak you see. But not quite as dark and hard as bubinga. Wuddya guys think? 

















I don't work with exotics much.


----------



## bondogaposis

Looks like Bubinga to me. Nice job in the chest.


----------



## CL810

+1 on the bubinga.


----------



## jmartel

Not nearly orange enough for Padauk. Fantastic chest, Red.


----------



## bigblockyeti

That looks fantastic! Are you still on partial shut down giving you more shop time lately or are the choo choos running closer to capacity now?


----------



## PPK

Alder. 100%
I had to do that.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Pete, maybe it's Aldinga… lol. Bummer about your mishap. Recently a guest in my shop was commenting on how efficiently I was able to fixe a mistake. To which I quipped "You gotta screw up A LOT to get this good." Ha!

yeti- it's slowly coming back. I'll find out tomorrow when I go back. I've been off the past two weeks.

I tore into our master bath. time to bring it out of 1995. Forrest green galore. Our vanity is a really weird length. Home dumpo man said it'd be $1200 for a custom made. I said, "Have you ever heard of a Corona budget?"

I'm going stet-style and making one out of walnut I have. Some of it isn't really furniture grade. Of course it's been way more work than I expected. Oh well.


----------



## theoldfart

Red, Rockler torsion hinges on the chest?

The bath work looks good.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks man. It'll have some white undermount sinks. I think we'll like it.

Correct on the torsion hinges. I'm a fan of those.


----------



## bigblockyeti

That walnut vanity top is going to look great, especially with a pair of undermounts and single stem faucets! Any wood around water and my kids could destroy it in hours. Our engineered wood floor is going to be beat up so bad we can advertised it as "distressed" and it will be to the point where the mating lines for each installed piece will no longer be visible.


----------



## pintodeluxe

Great looking Walnut and cherry chest Red. 
Very nicely done.


----------



## bondogaposis

I have the finish on the legs now I am assembling them. Just a dowel to join the half lap joint.


----------



## PPK

Ahhh, now I get it. Light bulb! That's a unique design, Bondo. Does it get some glass on top?


----------



## ToddJB

Rojo, have you used Waterlox before? It's what I used on our walnut kitchen countertops which saw a lot of water (kids, ugh), and it held up amazing.


----------



## bondogaposis

Here I am attaching the top, using lag screws with oversize hole in the legs. Cedar burl top. I have packed this burl around since the 70's, I know it is it dry. The odd shape of this burl is the reason for the 3 legged base.


----------



## theoldfart

Beautiful Bondo


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Good stuff there Bondo. I dig it.

Pinto- thanks for the kudos on the chest. I've got a couple commissions in the basement now waiting to be picked up. Folks better make the trip before my wife gets too attached to them…lol.

yeti- I'm on the same page with the vanity fixtures.

Todd, I forgot you did walnut counters at your old place too. Such a reasonable option with the prices of counters these days. I do like waterlox. It does a great job of highlighting grain. But honestly I don't think I have the patience to keep wiping on all those coats. I buy minwax satin poly by the gallon, and I've had good luck with its moisture resistance. My plan is to heavily spray lots of coats and go from there.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Another quandary… do you guys use any special glue for bubinga?


----------



## rad457

> Another quandary… do you guys use any special glue for bubinga?
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


Same as Teak and other oily woods, T.B. III and always wipe with Acetone just prior.


----------



## bondogaposis

> Another quandary… do you guys use any special glue for bubinga?
> 
> - BigRedKnothead


I don't, I use TBII.


----------



## CL810

I use TB II as well. No special steps.

Bondo, great table but without a BondoPose how do we know it's yours?? ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Andy has a valid point. Bondo?

Well…...

We're waiting…....


----------



## bondogaposis

This is as close as I'm going to get to crawling on top of this.


----------



## theoldfart

Good enough, project complete.


----------



## CL810

Well done sir!


----------



## rad457

Real Nice! The barber shops still closed in your area?


----------



## CL810

Question for the collective:

I re-sawed some walnut 8/4 pieces that bowed when the tension was released. Does it take for the wood to stop moving from that tension release or can I finish milling it right away?

I need more patience!


----------



## PPK

In my experience (which is not nearly as vast as many here), the wood more or less stops changing once you've re-sawn it unless it has more drying to do. I say more or less because does wood ever stop moving?!?


----------



## DanKrager

CL810, in my experience using resawn stuff, what I do depends on how badly it cupped or bowed and where I'm going to use it. I often resaw poplar drawer material which tends to be less than 6" wide. if it cups enough to be troublesome, I might dampen the concave side with a sprayer and let it settle for a 1/2 day or so convex side up in the sun if it is shining. Then it is usually close enough.

A tension causing bow is a little different and there isn't much one can do about that in a short time. I would try to use it where short lengths <24>s real precision in marquetry.

DanK


----------



## CL810

I just finished jointing the bowed side after letting them rest 24 hours. I let them sit for a bit, layed the bowed side down on table saw top, and they might still have some movement left in them so I'm going to leave them overnight and try again tomorrow.


----------



## PPK

Chopped, re-painted & installed.


----------



## theoldfart

Nice recovery Pete, looks good.


----------



## bondogaposis

Like it.


----------



## CL810

Looks great Pete!


----------



## PPK

Thanks fellers. On to the next project!

What you you do in this situation: I'm bidding a butcher block countertop that will be 7' x 4', 2.25" thick. Hickory. The grain (boards) would run the long way. It's for an island cabinet, which is 3'. So there'd be a 1' overhang. I know that hickory moves a fair amount, although not as much in the butcherblock configuration, where the boards would be on their sides. My thoughts are to rout a 1" x 1" channel on the underside and fasten 1" steel tubing with slotted holes. This would provide some strength for the overhang, as well as help to prevent cupping. Thoughts? Steel not necessary?


----------



## PPK

Ug. I did the math, and that ends up being about 88 BF of lumber / 275 pounds…


----------



## BigRedKnothead

The ol' vanity top turned out pretty good. The ridiculous markup on countertops makes this a viable option for furniture makers.



















The vanity used to be golden oak. I made to doors and drawer fronts, then sprayed it all white.

Onto the next one.


----------



## rad457

Very happy to see you remembered to put your pants on for the Pic sort of distracted me from looking at that beautiful chunk of Wood! Question, are those plugs on a GFI breaker? Here we have to use GFI plugs in bathrooms.


----------



## PPK

Looks nice, BRK! That's real purty. I enjoy making countertops. I've always wondered why the massive markup on CT's… 
My children would destroy that wood in a matter of days…haha.

Those are some unique doors on the bottom - usually the doors are symmetrical under the sink! Backsplash?


----------



## ToddJB

We're an angle soft family, too, Red.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks fellers.

GFI- yup, these are downline from the one in the main bath.

The Asymmetrical doors bug me too, but there was no way to change it. Funky face frame. That door divider goes all the way up. Makes easier access the plumbing easier …I guess.

I ended up making a walnut backsplash as well. Wasn't crazy how the tile looked up there.

Now back to the big bubinga slabs so I can make the monies.


----------



## jmartel

> Question, are those plugs on a GFI breaker? Here we have to use GFI plugs in bathrooms.
> - Andre


Code is the same here, but you can have multiple regular outlets that are protected with a single GFCI outlet ahead of them in the circuit. Works the same. You're supposed to label them, though.

I think the most up to date is AFCI outlets. I had our panel replaced 3 years ago, and put in all AFCI breakers. Not cheap, but better to be safe.


----------



## bigblockyeti

AFCI breakers can be a huge PITA. Some will shut down with a univeral motor plugged in as running results in thousands of tiny arcs from the brushes around the commutator as the motor is running. I've had them trip with everything from a vacuum, blender, coffee grinder & mixer to tools like a circular saw and even a dremel.


----------



## rad457

> Question, are those plugs on a GFI breaker? Here we have to use GFI plugs in bathrooms.
> - Andre
> 
> Code is the same here, but you can have multiple regular outlets that are protected with a single GFCI outlet ahead of them in the circuit. Works the same. You re supposed to label them, though.
> 
> I think the most up to date is AFCI outlets. I had our panel replaced 3 years ago, and put in all AFCI breakers. Not cheap, but better to be safe.
> 
> - jmartel


Sort of what I assumed, our last house the ensuite was down stream of the main bath, PIA when the wifeys blow dryer would trip breaker then had to go down the hall to reset When I built the shop, 3 outside plugs all separate GFI plugs! Waiting to see how that beautiful countertop could be made any nicer?


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> AFCI breakers can be a huge PITA. Some will shut down with a univeral motor plugged in as running results in thousands of tiny arcs from the brushes around the commutator as the motor is running. I ve had them trip with everything from a vacuum, blender, coffee grinder & mixer to tools like a circular saw and even a dremel.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


 What brand of AFCI did all that tripping? How old were they?

When they first came out all they sensed were series arcs which happen in normal operation of equipment. The last few years the technology has improved and they actually sense the arcs that cause fires ;-)) I installed them last year when we upgraded our baths. My primary reason is the magnitude 9+ earthquake this area will have in the future. The house shaking for 3.5 to 5 minutes will put stress on the cable stapled throughout the house. A few thousand aftershocks might just seal the deal ;-((

My panel is an old Cutler Hammer. Their breakers will usually trip on a dead short before any physical damage is visible. Square D will too. All the others will usually melt whatever cause the short before they trip.


----------



## jmartel

> AFCI breakers can be a huge PITA. Some will shut down with a univeral motor plugged in as running results in thousands of tiny arcs from the brushes around the commutator as the motor is running. I ve had them trip with everything from a vacuum, blender, coffee grinder & mixer to tools like a circular saw and even a dremel.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


I can't say that I've had any issues with mine. Only time something trips was for good reason. Maybe mine are newer than what you used and they are better now?


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> I can t say that I ve had any issues with mine. Only time something trips was for good reason. Maybe mine are newer than what you used and they are better now?
> 
> - jmartel


I have not had any issues either in the last 6 months. They have vastly improved in the last few years. Good thing, the National Electrical Code requires all outlets in a house that are replaced after Jan 1, 2020 be AFCI protected. Most people will never know, so it won't happen very often.


----------



## bigblockyeti

> AFCI breakers can be a huge PITA. Some will shut down with a univeral motor plugged in as running results in thousands of tiny arcs from the brushes around the commutator as the motor is running. I ve had them trip with everything from a vacuum, blender, coffee grinder & mixer to tools like a circular saw and even a dremel.
> 
> - bigblockyeti
> 
> What brand of AFCI did all that tripping? How old were they?
> 
> When they first came out all they sensed were series arcs which happen in normal operation of equipment. The last few years the technology has improved and they actually sense the arcs that cause fires ;-)) I installed them last year when we upgraded our baths. My primary reason is the magnitude 9+ earthquake this area will have in the future. The house shaking for 3.5 to 5 minutes will put stress on the cable stapled throughout the house. A few thousand aftershocks might just seal the deal ;-((
> 
> My panel is an old Cutler Hammer. Their breakers will usually trip on a dead short before any physical damage is visible. Square D will too. All the others will usually melt whatever cause the short before they trip.
> 
> - TopamaxSurvivor


Can't remeber if they were Siemens or Square D, new in 2014.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor

> Can t remeber if they were Siemens or Square D, new in 2014.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


The technology may very well have been an issue in 2014. I do not know exactly when it was finally resolved. The old ones have been a requirement for at least 15 or 20 years. They really should not require garbage to be installed!


----------



## derekcohen

Not quite 4 weeks ago, a good friend, Rita, brought along an entrance hall table she wanted me to fit a drawer into …



















(Note that these photos were taken in my entrance hall, not Rita's).

It was really a boring … okay, ugly table. I thought that the proportions were completely ugh, and the legs reminded me of detention in a classroom. The table had been a kerbside salvage by her late husband, a close friend of mine, and a very good woodworker in his own right. It had been used as a work table. Rita had just moved into a new home, and the table was used because the width of the top fitted an alcove in the entrance hall.

I said to Rita that I would re-build the table. "But I must have a drawer", Rita emphasised.

The wood was good Jarrah. The first step was to pull it apart. This was not so easy as simply unscrewing the clips for the top …










Some evil tablemaker had used a nail gun to attach the corner blocks. Pulling them out left holes in the legs.










The legs were attached with dowels. I would never have guessed as the construction was very strong. Pulling them away caused some of the wood to tear along with it. No way to remove them other than saw the ends away.










Deconstructed …










Let's begin again ..

I thought that I would do something different with this write-up. Turn it around and start with the finished piece. That's right … the table rebuild is complete. This will provide a picture of the end result, and we can then look at how certain parts were built. This way around might create a better understanding of where the build was going, and how it got there.

In particular, the drawer. The drawer is a little beauty. I did scratch my head over the construction. No doubt it has been done before, but I could not find any pictures of another like it. I am sure there will be interest in the design. I am chuffed with the efficiency of it. More on this in the next article.

For now, here is the completed table.










The legs have been brought inward, tapered, and a 3 degree splay added to the sides.



















The top retained its width (I was threatened with death, or worse, if it was shortened) but was made shallower. A slight camber was added front-and-back to soften the outline …










The apron was also made shallower. The original was 100mm (4") high. It is now 65mm (2 1/2") high.










Oy .. where's the drawer gone?! I could have sworn it was there yesterday. Aah … there it is … 



















This is the drawer case …










With drawer inserted - you need to get close up to see the joins ..










It opens with a pull under the drawer ..










The drawer is shallow, of course, it is just for house keys and the odd remote control. It is just 45mm (1 3/4") high on the outside and 26mm (1") deep inside. The full dimensions are 230mm (9") wide and 280mm (11") deep …










The sides are 7mm thick. The drawer front is 18mm (roughly 3/4").

To maximise the internal height, the drawer bottom was attached with a groove into the drawer sides rather than using slips. Slips would have used a precious extra 3mm (1/8"). So they 6mm (1/4") drawer bottom has a 3mm rebate, fitting a 3mm groove.










The sides and bottom are quartersawn Tasmanian Oak, which is very stable and tough. One screw at the rear, with an expansion slot, to hold it firmly. A nice, tight drawer …










It sides in-and-out smoothly. I love that it disappears and is hidden.

The remainder of this build is on my website …

Legs: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Transformations3.html

Drawer case design: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Transformations2.html

Fitting the drawer case and building the drawer: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Transformations4.html

I hope you enjoyed this adventure 










Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Looks great Derek. I usually just tell people I'd rather make them a new one;-P

Moving forward with this credenza thingy. These are tighter than a gnats patooty. Pins are intentionally proud. I guess I still got it. Except for the tennis elbow symptoms..lol.


----------



## rad457

^^ Amazing job, think a little too much splay on the legs 
Good looking D.T.s BRK!


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## CL810

Derek I think you nailed the re-make. Proportions are spot on. I'm sure she appreciated the work you put into it since her husband was a wood worker.

BRK your production rate has dropped dramatically! ;-)


----------



## bobasaurus

Kinda went overboard on the butterflies here, but I like it so far (sorry for the messy shop background):


----------



## rad457

> Kinda went overboard on the butterflies here, but I like it so far (sorry for the messy shop background):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - bobasaurus


What Mess?


----------



## bondogaposis

Looks great.


----------



## PPK

Too quiet 'round here - nobody building anything??

I've been working on custom cabinets for a whole house. All of them, except for the bathroom vanities and some in the laundry room.

The first batch (kitchen cabinets) was poplar/maple, and is at the paint shop right now.

The second batch I'm working on right now, and is all hickory. In process of building the carcasses. FULL shop!


----------



## CL810

Evidently not much furniture making going on Pete!

I could use some of the collective wisdom of the group for my current endeavor.

I've been working in the shop learning how to make tambour panels. I was inspired for this by Poritz. Look at this to see what I'm talking about.

I've made about 8 small sections to learn how. This is my latest test piece.










I've learned quite a few things not to do and a few things to do. One of the "not" to do things is using solid wood for the slats. For my cabinet the slats will be 24"-26" long, 5/8" wide, 3/4 " thick. When I cut the slats and tension is released, the slats twist and cup too much to be useable. I guess if I cut enough to cherry pick only the dead straight ones it would work but that would waste a lot of wood.

So that got me to trying MDF as you can see in the above picture. Now here is where I need some help.

1. What do you think about there being a difference in color of MDF and the veneer that becomes visible in the corner? The veneer in the picture is not what I'll being using in my project. Is there a way to color the mdf so it will blend in? In the Poritz pieces I can't tell what he does. I don't know if he uses MDF or solid wood.

So anyway, thoughts??? Has anyone done this?


----------



## rad457

I think your slats are to thick? Years ago I made a new door for an Appliance garage, vertical lift and if memory serves me the slats were only about an 1/8" thick? Problem with that one was finding the right weight/thickness for the backing fabric.
this is my latest project


----------



## CL810

The slats are fine at 3/4" thick. To be able to take a 2" radius turn at the corners you need a wide groove. In this case 3/8". The tenons are 1/64" shy of 3/8" thick and have beveled edges. The beveled edges allow the tenon to be 5/8" wide and make the tight turn. Two other design goals are 1) to overhang the groove and hide it and 2) bring the tambour door as far as possible toward the front of the cabinet.


----------



## Mosquito

Looks like a fun project Andy, is the veneer you'll be using lighter or darker than the MDF? Wondering if you could tint some shellac to seal them, smooth them, and match up closer to the veneer?

Otherwise my other thought probably lands in the "holy crap a lot of work" category, and veneer the sides with some cheaper/secondary/backing veneer.

And there's always milk paint and just make the color difference on purpose


----------



## CL810

Yeah Mos, this thing is already turning into a "crap load of work!!" LOL. Think I'll skip on the veneering the sides. But the tinted shellac may be a go. Will test it out.


----------



## CL810

I may have it figured out. Last night I took some of the slats that bowed, squeezed them in a jig so hey were flush with each other and then veneered each side. then separated them on my band saw. No bowed slats! Gonna see what time does to them before committing.


----------



## crmitchell

They're required in new construction here; my first encounter was in the new house 2 years ago. Had one that served trhe master bath that tripped constantly from wife's hair dryer. The builder replaced it and no there have been further problems.

I went through all kinds of anguish when i finished the basement and wired in the sewer pump; it tripped every time it came on - obviously something that was not acceptable; manufacturer's help line told me they could not be used with that pump. I finally just used a regualar GFI. I envisioned a major fight with the building inspector. I explained the problem to him and he replied that the AFCI's are only required in living spaces - wish I had known that before I agonized over it. Live and learn.

AFCI breakers can be a huge PITA. Some will shut down with a univeral motor plugged in as running results in thousands of tiny arcs from the brushes around the commutator as the motor is running. I ve had them trip with everything from a vacuum, blender, coffee grinder & mixer to tools like a circular saw and even a dremel.

- bigblockyeti

What brand of AFCI did all that tripping? How old were they?

When they first came out all they sensed were series arcs which happen in normal operation of equipment. The last few years the technology has improved and they actually sense the arcs that cause fires ;-)) I installed them last year when we upgraded our baths. My primary reason is the magnitude 9+ earthquake this area will have in the future. The house shaking for 3.5 to 5 minutes will put stress on the cable stapled throughout the house. A few thousand aftershocks might just seal the deal ;-((

My panel is an old Cutler Hammer. Their breakers will usually trip on a dead short before any physical damage is visible. Square D will too. All the others will usually melt whatever cause the short before they trip.

- TopamaxSurvivor

Can t remeber if they were Siemens or Square D, new in 2014.

- bigblockyeti
[/QUOTE]


----------



## PPK

What type of joinery would you use for this thing? 
I was initially thinking rabbets, but now wondering if I should do biscuits to make things a bit easier…

It'll all be 3/4" plywood, frameless. Of course I'll trim the edge of the plywood, as well as prefinish before assembly.


----------



## rad457

I think solid uprights with sliding dove tailed shelf's Bottoms partitions would be rabbets.


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## bondogaposis

Here is my latest cabinet build.


----------



## drsurfrat

> What type of joinery would you use for this thing?
> I was initially thinking rabbets, but now wondering if I should do biscuits to make things a bit easier…
> 
> It ll all be 3/4" plywood, frameless. Of course I ll trim the edge of the plywood, as well as prefinish before assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - PPK


What about half slots? It mightn't be easier than biscuits, but would have many fewer pieces and would better guarantee that all the lines wold be straight


----------



## bigblockyeti

> What about half slots? It mightn t be easier than biscuits, but would have many fewer pieces and would better guarantee that all the lines wold be straight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - drsurfrat


This is what I was thinking too, I think the real question is what weight capacity do the individual cubbies need to have.


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## Mosquito

Looks great Bondo, is that considered Beetle Kill Pine?


----------



## rad457

> What about half slots? It mightn t be easier than biscuits, but would have many fewer pieces and would better guarantee that all the lines wold be straight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - drsurfrat
> 
> This is what I was thinking too, I think the real question is what weight capacity do the individual cubbies need to have.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


Passing along an observation, perhaps more relevant and easier than mine
*As for that notch joint to connect dividers….last two trays I have made used that joint….Notches have to be a snug fit, no gaps allowed…*


----------



## rad457

> Looks great Bondo, is that considered Beetle Kill Pine?
> 
> - Mosquito


Almost everything Bondo makes looks great, especially when he's not on top of it


----------



## Mosquito

> Looks great Bondo, is that considered Beetle Kill Pine?
> 
> - Mosquito
> 
> 
> 
> Almost everything Bondo makes looks great, especially *with the Bondo pose*
> 
> - Andre
Click to expand...

Fixed that for you


----------



## bondogaposis

> Looks great Bondo, is that considered Beetle Kill Pine?
> 
> - Mosquito


Yes, the cabinet box is plywood and the face frames and end panel is ponderosa pine, the door panels are beetle kill ponderosa pine.


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## PPK

Well, still haven't decided how I'll do it. I'll letcha know what I decide when it happens. I'm leaning toward dados on the exterior parts of the case and biscuits on all the interior dividers.

Nice case, Bondo! I hate working with pine (except for the smell is great) you sure made that pine sharp!

Someone asked me to bid a "dark pine" bedframe. I'm gonna propose alder with a dark stain…


----------



## PPK

Just finished this:


----------



## TEK73

I suggest half laps as suggested above, or ideally blind rabbets.
For a easier solution you could rabbet the shelf instrad and use gliders for the shelf - but guess that would be quite the same as using biscuts.
Go with blind rabbets!


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## DanKrager

PPK, I have done all of the suggestions above and some more besides, and the half lap is by far your best option for keeping things tidy and straight. The picture below i s wine rack I did and have posted it before. Notice the slight discrepancies in the pieces going uphill to the left. Those are shorts put in place via sliding dovetails hand cut into the end grain of the shorts and routed tail slots. You'll have a heck of a time at glue up trying to keep all those pieces in line especially if you use biscuits.










Good luck!
DanK


----------



## PPK

Here's another "how would you" question for my betters:

I've got a client that wants some herring bone type patterns on their bedframe. My thoughts were to use some 3/4" plywood and veneer strips of alder onto it. I'd resaw to about 1/8" and then sand down to approx. 1/16".

Should I go big and set up a vacuum press? Or try my hand at hide glue veneering?


----------



## CL810

I use a vacuum press Pete and it is very easy way to apply veneer. I think it allows for more flexibility, e.g., applying veneers to curves. It is also very fast for applying large areas of veneer.

It can be more expensive at the start but it is possible to save. Watch craigslist for used hvac vacuum pumps for sale. Try for an oil less pump.


----------



## Mosquito

I've often thought about picking up a vacuum press setup, mainly for curved surfaces. I haven't done much large scale veneering, so most of it has been hammer veneered.

Speaking of veneer, how are the veneered tambour panels working out?


----------



## CL810

After some more experimenting I've settled on 3/8" thick slats with a 1/4" thick tenon. I also made my own plywood with mahogany that will blend in nicely with the face veneer. 3 layers of wood plus the veneer. Here is the vacuum bag in action followed by the finished product.




























Andre ended up being right about the tambours being too thick. The slats work fine at 3/4" thick but take up to much depth in the credenza; 2-1/4" versus 1-1/8". I made a test piece and was able to keep the slats 5/8" wide even with a 1/4" groove.


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## Mosquito

Very nice, that should be sweet


----------



## PPK

Made my decisions. I'm going to do dados for the joints around the perimeter, and biscuits for all the interior joints. I'd go with the half lap IF the depth wasn't 16" and I was using solid lumber. But as it were, I think the deep plywood isn't suited to that joint. I'll update y'all on my success or lack thereof. I'm just prefinishing my parts right now.

And I'm going to set up a vacuum press for the other project. I'm excited to try something new.


----------



## PPK

Clayton, I'm curious, did you use a platen on top of the veneer or a breather mesh? In your picture it looks like the vacuum bag is right against the top veneer… this works out fine?


----------



## CL810

Pete, that is a great question for maybe not so obvious reasons. I used mesh on top this go around, but I've done it both ways. Just going with mesh on top is easier and the veneered pieces came out fine.

I'm not sure what factors determine which way it should be done. But going on my limited experience here are some thoughts.

When you sandwich the pieces being veneered together it can be difficult to manage as the pieces get bigger. The shorter cross piece in making this veneer were cupping and twisting so it was impossible to get them to lay flat and edge to edge. By using mesh I was able, with spouse's help, to put the mesh on top, and then work my way from the far end towards the open end making sure everything was in place. I might have been able to accomplish that outside of the bag with a top platen but then the "sandwich" would have probably been to heavy to maneuver.

Plus the platen on top can be no bigger than the piece beneath it or the pressure will break the top platen where it is unsupported. So in time it becomes an inventory and cost issue of having enough platens around of the right size.

I hope someone with more veneering experience can provide better insight on with way is best.


----------



## PPK

Cool, that makes perfect sense. Thanks! One thing I've wondered about is if you have two platens that are 3/4" thick each, does the atmospheric pressure really produce enough force to flex the 3/4" platen and press flat all the veneer? I suppose that's another arguement for the use of the mesh instead?


----------



## CL810

Yes it does. It is flat out crazy how much pressure it creates.



> .......does the atmospheric pressure really produce enough force to flex the 3/4" platen and press flat all the veneer?
> 
> - PPK


----------



## PPK

Its working well. Glad I chose the biscuit route. It's easier to do one layer at a time and adjust the verticals as needed. I feel like I'm building a skyscraper.


----------



## Mosquito

Looks like it too PPK lol


----------



## Dark_Lightning

Post 10126 is Ted scam spam. Flagged.


----------



## CL810

Can't wait to see it finished Pete.


----------



## Dark_Lightning

> Post 10126 is Ted scam spam. Flagged.
> 
> - Dark_Lightning


Well. It WAS! 8^)


----------



## PPK

Here's how that shoe storage thing turned out:


----------



## drsurfrat

With hardwood going for a gazillion dollars a board foot, I have tapped into my stash and extended its use to ridiculous levels.

I make furniture









Then with the cutoffs I make small things









Then with cutoffs of the cutoffs I make handles









I just haven't found a use for shavings yet.


----------



## gottobtrue

Make Christmas or birthday bows with the shavings.


----------



## drsurfrat

O, that's good. I was also thinking - glue up my own MDF sheets.


----------



## CL810

HELP!!










Below is a pic of the shelf for my credenza that I made over two months ago. Everything was fine about it after I made it. BUT, when I did a dry fit last week I discovered it had cupped over the the last 5" - 6" to the right of the solid line. The rest of the board is flat.










The easy solution would be to cut off the cupped section and replace it but the only wood I have left over is not a match as you can see.

I have two ideas to solve the problem. One is to cut off the cupped section along the dotted lines, rejoint the edges and then glue them back. But I'm concerned about a series of "micro-cupped" sections.

The second idea I have is to cut off the cupped section completely. Glue the "new" board to the back of the shelf with idea that no one will ever notice the difference in the boards. then from the cupped cutoff, cut off the flattest 1/2 - 1" piece i can find and glue that back on to coverup the groove.

Which idea, or another idea, will work best?


----------



## DanKrager

CL810, when that happened to me, I would not cut the piece. I would wipe the concave side with a heavy rag soaked in HOT water. Might even cook it with a heat gun for a bit. Then I would clamp the panel flat or ease it into a very slight reverse. After a day in the clamps, it should be flat enough to go together easily and your interior pieces will hold it flat in the future. It's not severe, so the forces won't be great. I'll give you a quarter for anyone who points it out in the future if you do it well. One simply cannot get away from all slight distortions in solid wood construction no matter how carefully selected the wood is. Use the anticipated tension to your advantage where possible.

DanK


----------



## CL810

Thanks Dan, I'll try that today.


----------



## CL810

I applied hot water and left it clamped for 30 hours and it remains cupped.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Is the cup over the entire length of the board? How severe is the cup, 1/8", 1/4"?


----------



## CL810

Yes, 3/16".

I originally planned one divider on the top for the drawers. With the board cupping on the front one third it presented a gap between the shelf and the lower divider that is not offset by a divider on the top right third. I guess I'll now put another divider in so it will press down the cupping to an amount that will hopefully not be noticeable.


----------



## bigblockyeti

I would think a tight fit should be able to press it down. Is it possible to turn the shelf so the cupped side is to the back. I looks like you'd have to fill a stop dado based on the picture but are there any other obstacles?


----------



## DanKrager

CL810, what's the outcome? Need update to see what worked for you!

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Probably nailed a 1" slab of MDF to back of it!


----------



## CL810

It's still cupped. I may have to buy some more wood to make another shelf.


----------



## DanKrager

Well, if that's the case, you've got nothing to lose by trying heat and moisture coupled with some moderate pressure past flat. It has to be hot enough to soften the resins within and wet enough to gain flexibility. I've had very good results pushing past what I thought to be limits. It's a form of steam bending only to have the springback be flat. I encourage you to keep on that path while you search for replacement, just in case. It's partly to learn …

DanK


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Wuddup peeps. I'm still making furniture, just not much time spent on the webz. Here's my current walnut king size bed build. The timbers I landed are massive… although common grade in quality. I milled them down to literal 2×12s for the sides and 6×6' legs. It feels a bit more like timber framing so far.










The leg joints are a technique I like from a bunk bed I built. All held together with big arse spax bolts. 


















For the headboard, I'm doing something I've never done before…. veneering. 









I got these rolls of waterfall bubinga at the last Handworks… when they had those. They're a little tattered, but I'm hoping to use them for headboard panels.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Anyway, I've got a vac press veneering bag on the way.

The design certainly has Asian elements… as much as my wife's taste will allow. I'm wrestling with the headboard/panel design. What do ya'll think of this?


----------



## bigblockyeti

Like the overbuilt massive look. The curves in the legs look great! Is the vacuum veneering setup a new addition? The waterfall bubinga looks great and I'm sure it'll look perfect as panels in the headboard.


----------



## PPK

Dude, that's pretty awesome, BRK. Ironically, I'm just starting a cal king bed project, with vacuum veneered panels. Bit of a different style tho!

If it's too Asian, perhaps you could incorporate some more of those sweeping curves in the headboard, something like this? IDK, just throwing out an idea.


----------



## BlasterStumps

not knocking your bed designs but, It's been my experience that bed legs that stick out past the frame are a little hazardous to your toes.


----------



## ToddJB

Pete, that's what what I told him too. Sent him this pic.










He called my mother names and spit in my general direction. Big Gingery Bastard.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

Thanks fellers. I do like those 'open' design ideas. The functional problem for us is that there is a window behind where we place our master bed, and we really do want the headboard to block light and cold air.

I think this is what I've arrived at… picturing the waterfall bubinga panels.









I'm gonna save some bubinga for a drawer front on the nightstands.

Yeti, ya just got the vac bag in the mail. Gonna borrow my mechanics vac press. New technique to me. I'll try it next weekend.

Blaster, I can just hear my wife stubbing her toe saying her usual "Why does everything you make have to be so hard!!" lol


----------



## ToddJB

"it's my job to make it hard, it's yours to make it soft"......... you're welcome.


----------



## Brit

> HELP!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Below is a pic of the shelf for my credenza that I made over two months ago. Everything was fine about it after I made it. BUT, when I did a dry fit last week I discovered it had cupped over the the last 5" - 6" to the right of the solid line. The rest of the board is flat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The easy solution would be to cut off the cupped section and replace it but the only wood I have left over is not a match as you can see.
> 
> I have two ideas to solve the problem. One is to cut off the cupped section along the dotted lines, rejoint the edges and then glue them back. But I m concerned about a series of "micro-cupped" sections.
> 
> The second idea I have is to cut off the cupped section completely. Glue the "new" board to the back of the shelf with idea that no one will ever notice the difference in the boards. then from the cupped cutoff, cut off the flattest 1/2 - 1" piece i can find and glue that back on to coverup the groove.
> 
> Which idea, or another idea, will work best?
> 
> - CL810


Like Dan says, I would use water and heat. When I carved my Three Hares project that I sent to Mads, I initially jointed three boards together after letting the wood acclimatize ('acclimate' to you LOL) to my shop for a couple of months. After gluing the three boards together, I left the board in my shop for a couple of weeks to make sure it was going to stay flat and it did so I started my relief carving. After lowering the background, it cupped on me making the carved side the concave side. It was only about 1/8", but since the side that would hang on the wall was now convex, it wasn't ideal for hanging.

Once I had finished the carving, I turned the board over and wetted the back (convex side) at the highest point with water from a spray bottle and then used a heat gun until the wood was almost too hot to touch. I then removed the heat and let it cool down. This removed about 1/16" of the cupping, so I repeated the procedure and it got rid of almost all of the cupping. It remained flat throughout the next day at which point I melted a wax finish into it. As far as I know, it is still flat now. At least Mads hasn't told me otherwise.

In your case you would need to assemble your project as soon as you can after flattening the board.

Check out this video:


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## CL810

It looks like I'm going to get the same results. 1/8" of cupping before. After the first application of heat and cooling off it reduced it by 1/16". Only took about half of an hour to do a board 3.5 feet long. I broke it into thirds to apply heat.

At this point I was pretty excited and probably rushed the second application, as the result was a reduction in cupping of 1/32". I'm going to let the wood settle and repeat the process.

Brilliant Andy! Many THANKS!


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## Brit

Hoorah!


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## PPK

I finished up my carving project…


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## CL810

I have finally made some progress on my credenza. Earlier I posted about the mahogany cupping and I was not able to resolve the issue to my satisfaction despite the help from DanK and Brit. I'm sure their methods would have eventually done the job but I had turned sour on the wood so I switched to some walnut I had on hand.

I cannot figure out how to embed video so if you know how please let me know.

I have put a very, very short video on youtube. In it the I just put in one of three file drawers and it does not yet have the walnut front. The file drawers are Blum soft close slides. There will be two regular drawers, with ash fronts, on the top left where you see a divider. I welcome your thoughts, comments, suggestions on all aspects of this project.

Here is a link to the Youtube video .


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## drsurfrat

That is a great tambour door. it looks very smooth, and the joints do not stand out. Bravo.


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## Mosquito

Very first subscriber, woo!

Looks pretty slick, can't wait to see it when it's all done.

They (LJ) made embedding youtube videos more obnoxious. Used to be able to use old "YouTubeEmbedCode" generators and paste that in, but it appears they killed that off so it won't work anymore… haven't tried in a while


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## theoldfart

Cmon Andy, hiding in the closet? Pshaw!
Subscribed, good work. Keep posting.


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## Hammerthumb

> Cmon Andy, hiding in the closet? Pshaw!
> Subscribed, good work. Keep posting.
> 
> - theoldfart


I agree. What are you hiding for Andy? Come out the closet! (South Park reference).


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## CL810

I don't think the credenza is big enough for a Bondo!! lol At the rate I'm going it'll probably be next year before I finish.

Thanks guys!


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## BigRedKnothead

Don't you boys be sleepin' on ol Red.


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## rad457

Yup that can be called a Furniture project! Beautiful!


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## bondogaposis

That is really nice.


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## BigRedKnothead

Alright folks. Now to the wall hanging night stands to go with the bed. Of course the challenge is a beefy hanging system. Here's what I'm thinking… some big arse oak french cleats supporting with Dominos. Spax bolts into a stud on the install. Wuddya think?


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## DanKrager

French cleats have lost much of their charm for me because they have let me down so many times. Here's the common issue with them. There is nothing holding them engaged except the 45° slant of the cleats. They work adequately with the weight of the object, heavy or light, if the object is stationary. Using FC shelves as tool holders on saw horses was futile and expensive. To hang tools with nails in the the movable cleats was risky too because if the nail touched the tool as I lifted the tool out, it would, as often as not, fling the cleat off the wall or at least require adjustment. Having said that, know that I still use the ones I made. But I have moved over to slot walls for new stuff. Same principle but dados or T slots form the cleats.

From my experience, my concern with your option is the vibration caused by doors and drawers. And open doors or extended drawers push the CG way out with extra leverage to boot. Having two big cleats does mitigate this issue some, but in those cases where I did similar, I'm glad it was for me and not a client. The taller the cabinet the better it works I've found. They didn't fall, but they didn't stay close to the wall at top either.

If after using these some, and you find there is a problem (YMMV), and if you planned ahead to have domino slots already lined up in the 45° surfaces, all you would have to do to fix the issue would be to slip in the domino tenons.

Love the work!

DanK


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## rad457

I have used a French cleat system for my hanging tool Cabinet and some 15" deep shop cabinets, just 3/4" plywood and so far no problems? Think your construction techniques are just slightly more advanced
https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/412636


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## controlfreak

Especially for light tool holders that are on French cleats I get a small wedge to lock it in.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

I would never trust French cleats here in earthquake country ;-))


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## PPK

Shoot, keep going, and after you hang it on the cleats, just run a screw or two through one of them and itll never work it's way "up" unless you back out the screw.

Excited to see the finished product!


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## Hammerthumb

I agree with PPK and Dan. Lateral load will be extreme with drawers. You need something besides the cleats. Bonus is that you can put screws anywhere along the cleat, and not have to hit a stud.


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## BigRedKnothead

Appreciate the feedback guys. Ya, like Pete said I planned to hang the two cleats on the wall with 3/8" spax bolts into at least 1 stud each. Then, when the night stand is hung, drive another spax bolt into the top cleat (attached to the night stand), so there's no way anyone could 'bump' it upward and come off. Does that make sense?

There will only be one 3.5" drawer at the top. bottom is just a shelf with false back to hide the cleats. Taking my time prior to gluing to sort this out.


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## crmitchell

My hanging tool cabinet is supported with a French cleat (plus a couple of cabinet screws for insurance). Empty, it weighs over 100 pounds; full of tools, maybe 250.

https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/260962


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## ToddJB

Joinery question. I'm making a mission style trophy/medallion shelf. I'm not sure the best method of joining the corbel's end grain to the bottom the shelf - the "?" in the pic. I was thinking maybe just a sliding dovetail with no glue? What do y'all suggest?


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## drsurfrat

I don't think it could get much better than that. stong and expandable. Isn't the glue joint going to need the same attention? (i.e., crossed grain patterns)


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## Hammerthumb

I made some shelves for a friend with a corbels like that. I made the cornel with diagonal grain so neither joint had 100% end grain.
I think your joinery idea is solid.


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## Lazyman

A sliding dovetail may be overkill but will be a solid way to attach it. Unless the shelf is deeper than about 12", expansion won't be much of an issue but if you are worried about it, just apply glue to half of it near the corner. That will let the unglued portion shrink and swell without breaking the joint.


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## ToddJB

Thanks guys.

Mike, no, it might hard to tell from the pic, but the corbels will be vertical grain, and so will the pieces directly behind them. My picture doesn't show it very well, the back piece is actually three pieces. The ends being vertical and the middle being horizontal.

Paul, yeah, I'm going to make up some template corbels to see if I have enough material to make the grain at an angle, but I don't think I will.

Nathan, that's a good point, I may end up going that route. The shelf is only about 8in deep


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## PPK

If the grain is running the same direction on the top of the shelf and the corbels, they will expand and contract at the same rate, and there is no problem just doing a solid glue joint. And it is, since you said the corbels grain is vertical. So unless you like making DT's, I'd not spend all that time.


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## PPK

The point made above about width is a good one too; I built this shelf (very similar to yours) several years ago and accidentally cut out the corbels with the wrong grain direction. I figured what the heck, let's just see what happens. It has never cracked or broken the glue joint. (hide glue) I think this shelf is about 6" wide.


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## rad457

Something as simple as a dowel or 2 would work fine? Unless you be stacking bricks on the shelf? (Gold bullion?)


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## dbray45

I have had a lot of success with French cleats. The cleats on the cabinets are recessed so the cabinets sit cleanly against the wall.










Old photo, has toe plates now.

This house has sheet metal studs inside - every 24" so I added a wood stud between every existing stud in the wall. Securing the cleats to every stud gave me the strength to hold the cabinets and everything in them. The far wall only had furring strips. That was changed to 2×4s, 16"oc with a 1/2" space between the 2×4s and the block, then with foam in between for a thermal break.


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## ToddJB

The wood part of the construction is done. Need to finish and add some forged cross bars.


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## CL810

Very nice Todd! You got the proportions perfect.


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## ToddJB

Thanks. I'm not sold on the curve on the bottom. I think it flattens out too much in the middle, but not sure I'll risk fixing it.


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## Lazyman

Personally, because of the 3 supports in the middle, I think that the flatness works pretty well to my eye.


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## PPK

Love it!


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## CL810

This past year has not been good for shop time. I can't believe I started on this current project in December of '20! All it needs now is a few minor fixes and the final finishing.










But in order to do that I needed some kind of spray booth. Not having the room for a dedicated spray area I needed something small and moveable. This, for better or worse, is what I came up with. It has a blower from an old furnace in it that normally will have a furnace filter in front of it. I had to look like a drunk monkey wrestling a snake when I was putting the plastic sheeting on after applying the two-sided carpet tape to the panels!

The panels are approximately 2' X 6'. I will lay a sheet of masonite across the top if needed. I plan to lower the garage door down to the blower box and then lay panels across the gap between the garage door and floor. I was going to use it this weekend but with the rain I'll have to wait.









(I give up! 6 tries to get this oriented correctly!!)


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## Mosquito

Nice Andy, it's looking great. I did something similar for spraying when I was painting a ton of planer parts for that restoration. I didn't have quite as large of a setup as you do, and I used a couple cardboard box pieces on a smaller blower fan that did effectively the same thing. Make sure you have some form of return air coming back in to the shop, as it works a lot better (at least with mine it did)


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## CaptainKlutz

> ... look like a drunk monkey wrestling a snake … - CL810


LOL 
Happens to me every time I open an Amazon package with those strips of air cushion pillows.


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## CL810

Thanks Mos, I'll remember the make up air tip. Voice of experience!


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## Mosquito

I know my situation is a little unique, given I already had the ports cut out and bracket for a dual-vented portable air conditioner. I had a second set of hose ends, and used those for air exhaust and air return.

I rigged up 6" flex duct with a 6" duct booster fan, and a rudimentary box with an air filter as a fresh air intake. I used the round screw to open/close type of duct diffusers on the other port to let shop air out. Works pretty well as an air exchange afterwards to dissipate fumes



















There's a plastic blast gate between the garage door and the flex duct.

When I wasn't using it as an air exchange, I remove the white diffuser and hooked up a 6" flex duct from my blower fan to that instead (I didn't run both exhaust and intake fan at the same time, as I didn't want to actively suck the extracted air in). So I cracked the person entry door for air intake when I was exhausting. The air will find a way in one way or another, but having a directed flow was nice for containment reasons, and it seemed to help the extractor catch more before it floated off


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## rad457

Guess this is sorta like Furniture, another plant stand/End table.
A chunk of Birch for the top and a Doussie sub structure finished with Tried and True.


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## CL810

Nice Andre! I just got my first can of T&T. Hope my results are as good as yours.


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## rad457

Different kinda stuff, soaked into the Birch and dried but had to wipe down the Doussie. Wife hasn't decided if she likes it or not, may have to make another one? Think I may have to buy a mortiser


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## dbhost

Thus far I have not built any non shop furniture from scratch, but rather repaired, rebuild or refinished existing "curb find" pieces. I need to take some snaps.

My most recent are….

#1. 1950s combination record / liquor cabinet that was built by my neighbors Dad. The glue joints has more or less all failed and it was overall a disaster, but everything was straight. I stripped it down, biscuited and reglued the glue lines, cleaned that all up, and refinished it. Material is red oak, or at least it looks like it, finish is Minwax Dark Walnut with Minwax brush on poly.
#2. Don't recall the brand, but some hoidy toidy boutique childs dresser / mirror. Was designed with a slide out drawer as a combination dresser / dressing / make up bench. The slides were trashed, the finish was trashed and the former owner smeared lipstick through the drawers. The top and side were gouged. Made the proper repairs, cleaned it up thoroughly replaced all the slides with premium hardware, and refinished it, yes I used Minwax Dark Walnut and brush on poly.
#3. Candle stand. Leg was broken, dowelled and reglued , filled etc… Top was a taco chip, replaced with new piece from Red Oak from local supplier. Stripped and refinished with Varathane Dark Cherry, and Minwax brush on poly
#4. In progress. LARGE rolling kitchen island with drop side wings. Gave up on looking for replaceemnts for the funny and bent hinges, and have taken to straigteneing them out, Repaire several smallish gouges, stripping it for refinishing. And yes, I am going Dark Walnut again, it's a thing.


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## DanKrager

Well, sometimes planning works. Dry fit shop furniture.



















DanK


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## WoodES

> Well, sometimes planning works. Dry fit shop furniture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like your ecofriendly cordless drill stand
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


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## DanKrager

Thank you, WoodES.

DanK


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## Mosquito

Finally I feel like I have something to contribute to this thread after following forever lol

Working on a kid sized version of a low back stick chair from The Stick Chair Book


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## TEK73

I have a question that might fit well to ask a group of furniture makers…

If you make a table top that is 4cm (1 3 3/4") thick and 1m (3'3") wide out of 5 boards, and you want to keep it straight with c-channels.

What dimension do your c-channelse have to be, and how many should you use?


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## Mosquito

If I were doing it, and assuming the boards are around the same width each (20cm), I would be looking for something around 75-80cm long, probably 5cm wide and 12-14mm deep.

For me that table likely would have been about 38" wide, 7.5" boards. I'd be buying 36" lengths of 0.5"x2" C-Channel myself, and cutting them down to 30".

I'd probably put them evenly spaced about every 48-60" (1.2-1.5m) depending on the length of the table and concern for flatness being an issue.

But, I will say that's coming from my opinion, not my experience, as I've not got much in adding C-Channels to tables. I've usually had aprons, breadboard ends and such instead


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## Mosquito

This is a top for a sit/stand desk I made a year ago of of thermally modified ash. It's 36"x62" (about 92cm x 158cm), and all I used was the 28" (~72cm) tops of the legs screwed in to the top out near the ends, which have kept it flat so far.


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## PPK

That looks great, Mos!


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## CL810

Looks nice Mos! But be careful, it looks like chair building becomes an addiction for a lot of people. ;-)


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## Mosquito

Thanks guys.

And Andy, that's why I started with a kids chair… I only have one kid, so only need one so far lol
We'll see though, I did want to try this one and see how it goes, as a springboard to making some others for the house


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## ToddJB

Finally got around to hanging this thing up so I figured I'd share some pics. Left over walnut from my countertops and I tried my hand at forging.

Now I don't have to trip over my wife and kids successes anymore.


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## MPython

Nice! You obviously have an accomplished family.


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## MSquared

*MPython *- 'It's only a bunny!!"


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## PPK

Awesome!! The forged rods are a nice touch, and the shelf its legit too!


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## EarlS

Really like the shelf and the forged rods reinforce the Craftsman look.


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## CL810

Nice shelf todd and the metal work is way cool!


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## ToddJB

Thanks guys, it was a fun build.



> Nice! You obviously have an accomplished family.
> 
> - MPython


Nearly all of that is participation awards, but participating in a 10k is winning in my book.


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## TEK73

How would you round over this edge?


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## DanKrager

Tek, that is a question with a million answers.

First, define rounding over. Is a corner bead compatible with design? A tiny easing of the sharpness? A quarter round appearance?

Second, Do you want to burn electrons doing it or strictly by hand?

Consider that the miter seam will be visible, even accented by the rounding, any rounding.

If my project, there likely would be four strokes with a very finely set block plane just to imperceptibly reduce a razor sharp corner and give the finish a place to be. Surface finishes shrink away from sharp corners leaving an ultra thin protection on the sharpness.

What is the larger context? Looks promising…..

DanK


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## TEK73

> Tek, that is a question with a million answers.
> 
> First, define rounding over. Is a corner bead compatible with design? A tiny easing of the sharpness? A quarter round appearance?
> 
> Second, Do you want to burn electrons doing it or strictly by hand?
> 
> Consider that the miter seam will be visible, even accented by the rounding, any rounding.
> 
> If my project, there likely would be four strokes with a very finely set block plane just to imperceptibly reduce a razor sharp corner and give the finish a place to be. Surface finishes shrink away from sharp corners leaving an ultra thin protection on the sharpness.
> 
> What is the larger context? Looks promising…..
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Sorry, I'll add some more context.
This is one of four corners for this bed.










I'm planning to soften all the edges so that they are a bit more robust and that you do not cut yourself if you touch it. For all regular edges I'm planning on doing this using a small roundover router bit or maybe just a couple of stroke with a hande plane. But a bit more than just a few stroke with a sandpaper will do.
However, I'm a bit worried/wondering about this corner as it is a mitered joint. Not sure if it will look OK


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## CaptainKlutz

> How would you round over this edge? - TEK73


If you want to round over a mitered edge, you must learn to closely match the grain direction on both sides of miter. If the grain on both edges runs in same direction, and with similar spacing; the round over will almost disappear. When the grain directions are radically different, the miter line is much more visible. This can be good, or bad; depending on your perspective. The round overs on this recent Clock project might help explain.

+1 Couple strokes with block plane to remove razor edge only.
Anything else will look wonky (IMHO) due radical differences in grain direction.


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## CL810

TEK, If I'm looking at your picture correctly, it looks like the grain is running in opposing directions in the two boards. If you use a router you risk getting some tearout that will be difficult to hide. I like the block plane idea.

(Edit: I type too slowly!)


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## PPK

I just hit the sharp corners with a hand sanding block or the last grit (220) on the RO sander, very briefly. I echo the sentiment that creating a larger roundover looks odd due to the grains.


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## TEK73

Thank you!
That clock was butifuel!

Initially I had an idea about ensuring continous grains over the mitered joint, but sometime down the road that ambition vanished, so just a regular mitered joint now.
I'll just make a very small roundower.


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## bandit571

Up and running...yeah..


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## bandit571

So am I...








Replacing an OLD chest of drawers for the bedroom....spalted maple top, rest of the primary woods are Ash..secondary is Pine.


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## bondogaposis

Very nice Bandit, I like it.


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## bandit571

Just simple things...like a box...








That you can detail to show off the Grain of the wood...and the joinery used


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## Phil32

Perhaps a look back? Here's a recent posting of a cabinet I designed & built 70 years ago. The crude partition was a later modification. 

(18) Projects - Cabinet - a Tale of Survival | LumberJocks Woodworking Forum


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## CausticGuy

Finished up this console table not too long ago. Im itching to get back to building after taking time off to hang drywall in my basement and shop.


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## Hammerthumb

Very nice table.


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## CL810

Very nice work - great job with the grain. Good design.


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## JackDuren

….


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## Hammerthumb

Deal me in!
Nice card table.


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## CL810

That is a fine table Jack!


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