# How do you do this? (pergola)



## 12point (Jun 25, 2009)

The wife is wanting me to build her a pergola. I dont think i will have a problem building it but i cant figure out how exactly part of it is constructed. Maybe this is because i have not seen any plans for building one, i was planning on designing my own. Included is a picture of a pergola for reference. How is Slat A attached to Slat B? I realize that there is a notch cut in Slat B thus allowing Slat A to slide in, but how is it anchored in?


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## childress (Sep 14, 2008)

Either toenails or little things called hurricane clips.

And I would cut the notch in rafter "A" to keep the integrity of joist "B"

edit: BTW my thought was to use the second item down on that link


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## mnguy (Feb 4, 2009)

When I built a pergola for a friend, I notched both A and B, keeping the notch in B shallow to maintain strength. In that case, A was ~2" x 2", so I drove a screw straight down through A into B. If A is thicker, like the pergola pictured, I'd use pocket screws on the sides where they would show the least. Hurricane clips will work well structurally, but won't be as good cosmetically. Toe nailing would also work, but as the lumber moves around, a screw will maintain a more solid, better looking joint.


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## childress (Sep 14, 2008)

mnguy has got some good points…However, as a woodworker, screws are great. But as a framer, stay clear from screws because there's no tensile strength. If there's any racking once built, the screws could just snap. This is how I was taught and my dad (who used to be a building inspector) would look for things like that.


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## superstretch (Jan 10, 2011)

Are those just dado cuts? Honestly, if things are well-fit and the dado cuts are on both A and B, you might not need a fastener at all.


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## 12point (Jun 25, 2009)

Thanks for the tips and suggestions so far you guys. What exactly is a "toe nail" ? im fairly new to this.


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## superstretch (Jan 10, 2011)

Its nailing through the base of something from the side down into something below. Link


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## 12point (Jun 25, 2009)

10-4 superstrech. I never knew that was the name for it. Thanks


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## superstretch (Jan 10, 2011)

No problem.. Been thinking of building one of these myself this summer


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## childress (Sep 14, 2008)

Brantley. Really sounds like you'll need some help on this. If I were you, I would honestly think about hiring a carpenter with experience in these things. There is a lot that of knowledge one builds when doing work like this and if you've never done it before, you're in for more than you know. It seems easy, but a helping hand from someone who build things like this for a living will teach you stuff you would've never thought of. And yes, you most definitely need a fastener of some sort, don't even think for a minute you can cut all the notches (dados) perfect enough for a tight fit. I wouldn't even try it and I've done many patio covers/pergolas. Besides, construction lumber has a higher moisture content than hardwoods bought for furniture and so forth, and once structures are built, the wood still shrinks. Any carpenter/framer can build one of these without plans because the construction of them is standard building practices.


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## superstretch (Jan 10, 2011)

Fasteners probably are a good idea..

But whats the point of being on LJ if you don't DIY? I don't think its really complicated enough to warrant a contractor, just lay it out, measure, cut, notch then hoist it up on posts with a few buddies.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I'd cut notches in both pieces. Gang up your pieces with clamps
on a flat surface, using a big square cut out the waste with a circular
saw, and finish the cut with a router to final width and depth. You
can do it all with a router of circular saw too - the router is slower
and the saw makes a less polished cut.


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## childress (Sep 14, 2008)

There's a difference between doing small home projects and building a freestanding structure. I wasn't trying to tell him to hire it out, but simply get some help from somebody who knows what they're doing. At least someone who knows what a toenail is….Wasn't trying to minimize brantley in any way. I just know what it takes to build a sound structure and from the sound of things, he could use some help (and teaching) from someone with experience, that's all.

BTW this, right here, is what I believe lumberjocks is for. I feel like I'm giving him good sound advice to make a pergola that will last for many, many years…


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## cranbrook2 (May 28, 2006)

I,ve tried to buy a box of toenails but i couldn,t find them anywhere ;-)


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## superstretch (Jan 10, 2011)

*John* Hahah.. *Childress*, its fine, maybe I missed to what degree of 'hiring a carpenter' you meant, but I see where you're coming from-and from what *brantley* said, it sounded like he knew what it was, just not the official name. Anyways.. good luck on the project!


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## cranbrook2 (May 28, 2006)

It looks like the bottom of B is notched about 1 1/2" into the left and right side frames and A is notched about 2 1/2" into the top of of B 
The top of B does NOT get notched .


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## 12point (Jun 25, 2009)

Thank you everyone for the tips. Childress I find it suprising that you suggest I pay someone to do this. Not the response I expected. Do you think I'm over my head because I didn't know the correct or proper name for a toenail? I would never pay someone to do this for me. I can assure you I will complete this project by myself and it will look great and when its done I will be sure to let you see the finished product. Thanks again everyone for your help. 2ven you Childress


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## childress (Sep 14, 2008)

Well, it's quite obvious that I offended you. Not my intent, and I'm sorry. But if you read my post again, you will see that I never said pay someone to build it for you. I am simply suggesting hiring somebody that has done this sorta thing before to help you build it. Being a woodworker and building structures are two very different things. You make it very clear that you're "fairly new to this" and I believe you may not know exactly what you're getting yourself into. I've seen this sorta thing time and time again when the "homeowners" try to do something that they think is fairly simple, only to spend more by hiring someone to do it right. This is the perspective I'm coming from. I have been a contractor and builder for many years and can tell you from experience that this isn't as easy as you may think. I'm not saying you can't do it, because I don't even know you. I think you're better off hiring someone to help you build it, and in the process you would learn great deals about framing. My 2 cents. The one thing I'm worried about isn't weather or not it will look good, which it can and very well may when you're finished. It's how it will hold up over time. If you decide to tackle this on your own, I would be interested in seeing it 10 or even 5 years down the road. Then and only then, can you prove me wrong. Again, sorry for offending you…


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## 12point (Jun 25, 2009)

Thanks for your advice.


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## canadianchips (Mar 12, 2010)

This is a good project to learn how to make good joinery. It is an outdoor structure, exposed to elements. "RAIN". Make your joints so that the moisture has a place to escape. Also place your fasteners in a position to allow moisture to run "OFF" and not "IN".(I would not use metal clips !) I would cut slots into "A " and also on "B". I would use minimum 2×8, for this project. Maybe a lumber that is either treated for outdoor use or a cedar. (Cedar is my choice).
You are on the right track already asking question. 
Keep doing your homework and continue building new challenging projects. 
Best of Luck !


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

Brantley -
I've built a few of these, and agree with Childress about getting some help with yours. They look simple, but there are many things that can bite you as you design and build them.

I don't see any in the picture, but you'll need some diagonal bracing to keep it from racking and/or twisting after it's built.

Those "slats" are standard 2" x 6" lumber which will NOT be low moisture, cabinet/furniture grade material - unless you spend a kings ransom for them. Cutting dados will give you a great "look", but will be incredibly time consuming. Toe-nailing is the fastest way to assemble the "slats", but it's also the weakest - the top "slats" WILL get "wobbly" sooner or later. The best compromise (IMO) is to use Simpson "Hurricane Clips". They're made for applications like this, but they aren't pretty. I've had good luck using metal connectors if I clean them in a TSP solution, then prime and paint them with an outdoor spray paint like Rustoleum. A black or grey color usually blends in pretty well after the wood darkens with age.

Good Luck


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## CaptainSkully (Aug 28, 2008)

I've built a few of these also and toenails are not very structural and easy to ruin. Hurricane clips are ugly if viewed from below. I've always carefully laid out my intersections and notched both pieces. This is a strong joint, no hardware shows, and is clean looking.


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## Pdub (Sep 10, 2009)

Brantley: Here is a link http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-plans/outdoor/arbors/build-to-suit-pergola/ to plans that you can order. I have the issue of Wood magazine that they came in but dont have a way to scan them or I would send it to you. If you are interested, I could make a copy and send it to you in the mail. PM me your mailing address if you are interested.


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## Racer2007 (Jan 13, 2011)

Brantyley, here is link to the New Yankee Worksohp plans for the one Norm built and it is almost the exact same thing as the photo you show. And for $24.95 you get the plans and the DVD video of step by step instructions. And it is not that big of a deal to build as long as you pay attention to the details of proper support and braceing.
Good luck with it and post some pics of the process or at least the finished product.

http://www.newyankee.com/getproduct.php?702


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## CaptainAhab (Sep 28, 2010)

Didn't read through all the above advice….if you need more help contact me directly. I have over 20 years experience as a construction carpenter/bus. owner.


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## DaddyZ (Jan 28, 2010)

Sorry Can't help it , I am as dumb as the rest, But " Toe Nails" but its on the end of your toe !!

Still Laughing


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

As a twenty plus year contractor I've built a number of pergolas , In my opinion the folks that say notch both "A" and "B" are correct, hurricane clips are used for roofs that the possibility of lift and unless you put some kind of roof covering on your pergola they are not necessary nor will the look good. I usually use deck screws toe nailed from both sides hidden on the top.


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## fredf (Mar 29, 2008)

pocket holes pointing down would invite water in I would think. How about notching both and using construction adhesive???


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## woodcrafter47 (Nov 24, 2009)

Usieg construction adhesive in the notches is how I would go.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

My approach is to toe nail 3" galvanized deck screws from each side of the rafter,* not pocket screws* that would not make any sense. Since some of my pergolas have been standing more than twenty years water infiltration in screw holes is not an issue . In my area just construction adhesive will not pass code plus you need mechanical fasteners to meet proper building standards.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

How do yoiu keep water from dry rotting the notches?


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## GPDMTR25 (Jun 21, 2010)

My first woodworking project was building a pergola. I just searched the Internet and found a lot of videos of how to build them. 
If you go to Ron Hazelton's website he has a lot of information.

Angela


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Bob
I would use a wood you don't have to worry about dry rot, like pressure treated wood or cedar even the it's a good idea to seal the notches with a sealer. If your going to use fir it will have to be painted or stained in that case you stain or paint the notches before putting it together.


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