# Joinery and wood expansion questions



## devillier1 (Jul 23, 2015)

New poster here. Also New to woodworking.My question is how would you join the middle and bottom shelf on this piece to the legs? Taking in consideration expansion across the grain?


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## pjones46 (Mar 1, 2011)

Need a picture of what you are trying to do.


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## devillier1 (Jul 23, 2015)




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## devillier1 (Jul 23, 2015)

Sorry about that, forgot the pic.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

I would notch mortise the leg corners.

Others may disagree but I don't think its wide enough to worry about wood movement.
If the wood is dry and stabilized, you won't get maybe 1/16" across a 12" width.
There is a chart you can look that up.

The other option is use banded plywood and don't worry about it at all.


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## pjones46 (Mar 1, 2011)

It would appear that the shelf is attached to the box sides which forms the sides of the drawer using Kreg screws from the inside of the box.


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## devillier1 (Jul 23, 2015)

So if I use pocket screws from the sides screwed into to the shelf, and leave a small gap between the shelf and the legs (which I don't like the idea of) should I even worry about expansion?


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

> So if I use pocket screws from the sides screwed into to the shelf, and leave a small gap between the shelf and the legs (which I don t like the idea of) should I even worry about expansion?
> 
> - devillier1


Only if you use plywood, then the gap will serve no function. The piece of furniture in the photo is almost certainly made from composites either plywood or veneered particle board in which case wood movement is a non issue. If you intend to adapt this design to solid wood construction then you have some thinking to do. If the sides are solid wood then they are going to have to "float" as in frame a panel construction. If I were to make this project I would use plywood except for the top, legs and drawers, that would greatly simplify the construction and eliminate wood movement issues. If I were to make it from solid wood I would re-design it from scratch using frame and panel for the sides and also use frame and panel for the shelves.


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## SawduztJunky (Mar 25, 2015)

Pocket screws bottom side of shelves. The expansion/contraction would be such an insignificant amount, you need not worry.


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## devillier1 (Jul 23, 2015)

Well using plywood is definitely an option being that I'm painting everything but the top. How's does endgrain on plywood look painted?

Woodworking was so much easier before I was aware of/considered wood expansion.


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## pjones46 (Mar 1, 2011)

Band the plywood with solid wood.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

How's does endgrain on plywood look painted?

Like crap. Edge band, then paint.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

The way I would do it, the same way I did my live edge tables, make mortise and tenon runners between the legs and use the Cleat method shown in my project below.

Making furniture no matter what it's for you want it made strong enough to have sex on it metaphorically speaking.

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/104610


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## devillier1 (Jul 23, 2015)

Thanks fellas. Blackie can you repost that link? It doesn't work.


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## devillier1 (Jul 23, 2015)

The link works now, I definitely plan on using cleats on the hardwood top. It's the middle and bottom shelves I was asking about.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Use the same method for all surfaces, the bottom shelf I also used cleats.


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## devillier1 (Jul 23, 2015)

You're recommending using cleats even on plywood shelves? I've decided to only use hardwood on the top.


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