# Stropping w/vegetarian strop and general sharpening woes.



## BigNorseWolf

Hi, I'm bignorsewolf, I think i'm terrible at sharpening

(Hi bignorsewolf)

I got a https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Large-Synthetic-Strop-P34C11.aspx vegetarian stop and the aluminum oxide compound.

Is there any way to tell if it's working, i'm doing it right, i'm doing it wrong, or if my knives are really as sharp as they're going to get? just look or just feel don't really help if you've never seen or felt what its supposed to feel like or look like in person.


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## OSB

Cows are vegetarian.


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## RonAylor1760

Is the strop and aluminum oxide compound your ONLY method of sharpening? In reality it should be the final step!


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## JAAune

> Cows are vegetarian.
> 
> - OSB


Not mad cows.



> Is there any way to tell if it s working, i m doing it right, i m doing it wrong, or if my knives are really as sharp as they re going to get? just look or just feel don t really help if you ve never seen or felt what its supposed to feel like or look like in person.
> 
> - BigNorseWolf


First, make sure you've got a proper edge before trying to strop. You can strop a blunted edge all day and accomplish nothing. After using the stones, you should have a very fine and fragile burr on the edge. Stropping gets rid of that burr and leaves a razor sharp edge.

As far as how it should feel, a properly sharpened knife should be able to shave hairs.


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## BurlyBob

I made my strop from a piece of scrap leather and a piece of scrap oak. Way cheaper than $22 + shipping.


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## Loren

Can you shave, or better yet "scare" the hair
off you arm? That's a good way to tell when
a knife is sharp.

I have one of those same model strops. I don't
use it a lot but it works. I have green rouge
I use on it that works fine.


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## RonAylor1760

> You can strop a blunted edge all day and accomplish nothing.
> 
> - JAAune


Well … you could achieve a very shiny blunted edge … but yes, I agree with JAAune … you must have a proper edge first!


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## Planeman41

Please tell us your procedure of sharpening, what stones, etc. Then we can show you where you are going wrong.


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## BigNorseWolf

Smiths diamond stone (yellow plastic) coarse

Smiths diamond stone fine (orange plastic)

A smaller very fine sharpening stone. A few drops of oil, scrape along it like im trying to shave off a little bit.

Just got the strop.

The flexcut carving knives i've had for a bit compared to the Mora knife i just got are like using butterknives. Even the chip carving knife i was doing a lot of work with seems to have a dull edge compared tot hat.

I can usually get the blade on my leatherman or a K bar sharp enough to shave a few hairs , no luck on the flexcut.


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## Loren

Flexcuts can be tricky. They often have a 
polished, rounded bevel so when you sharpen
and strop it you have to make sure you're getting 
to the edge itself.

I use green rouge on a buffing wheel for my 
Flexcut carving tools. I don't carve much and
buffing has been adequate to keep them sharp.

Mora knives are really great and easy to sharpen.


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## Planeman41

I believe Loren above has the answer. I have never used a Flexcut product so I am not familiar with their edge, however I have encountered "rounded" taper blade shapes before and these gave me these same problems. Try sharpening and stropping by holding the blade angled higher to the strop or stone. Also, I recommend using magnification (I use a 2X Harbor Freight magnifying visor which works well) when examining the edge. Look head-on at the edge using a strong light. If you can see the edge as a thin stripe of light under a 2X magnification, your blade still isn't sharp enough. You shouldn't be able to see the actual edge this way if it is very sharp. Rounded shaped blade tapers are supposed to be stronger which is fine for heavy use, however I prefer a straight taper and a shallow one at that. The edge may be weaker, but it stays sharper and is easier to sharpen. The type of carving I do is not of the "hammer" type, but the "light tap" method. Actually I rarely even use a mallet. I just push by hand. You may try re-shaping the blade to a shallower taper using your coarse stone and re-sharpening. Extra work, but worth it in the end.


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## BigNorseWolf

Thanks!


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## ClaudeF

In my opinion, labeling a strop as "vegetarian" is a sales gimmick… If you are a vegetarian and don't want to use leather, a great option is to take a strip of cardboard from a cereal box, and glue it to a scrap board with rubber cement. Rub with any 0.5 micron stropping compound, and it's a great strop. Key point is the strop has to be very thin so it won't compress and then raise up just as the knife edge passes and rounds the edge. I use both Flexcut Gold compound and the green chromium oxide waxy one. The wax in the green one helps it adhere to the strop and not blow around the room…

I'm surprised at your Flexcut knives - they arrive carving sharp right out of the box. Proper stropping will keep them that way for literally years of use without having to use a stone or sandpaper on them (unless you drop them on a concrete floor…).


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## TravisH

> In my opinion, labeling a strop as "vegetarian" is a sales gimmick… If you are a vegetarian and don t want to use leather, a great option is to take a strip of cardboard from a cereal box, and glue it to a scrap board with rubber cement. Rub with any 0.5 micron stropping compound, and it s a great strop. Key point is the strop has to be very thin so it won t compress and then raise up just as the knife edge passes and rounds the edge. I use both Flexcut Gold compound and the green chromium oxide waxy one. The wax in the green one helps it adhere to the strop and not blow around the room…
> 
> I m surprised at your Flexcut knives - they arrive carving sharp right out of the box. Proper stropping will keep them that way for literally years of use without having to use a stone or sandpaper on them (unless you drop them on a concrete floor…).
> 
> - ClaudeF


That don't market it as vegetarian just the OP decided to describe it that way. I also have never had any trouble getting a sharp edge on a flex cut knife either. I have sharpened them with diamond stones a few times over the years but strop freqquently.


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## Planeman41

I should add that I have never seen a diamond "stone" that was fine enough for me. I use diamond "stones", but afterwards I always go to a fine semi-transparent white Arkansas stone for the final sharpening before stropping. Good ones are not cheap, but they do the job and don't easily get misshapened by wear. I even bit the bullet and paid nearly $80 for a 12" x 4" white hard Arkansas stone for my hand plane irons. Obviously I'm a fan of Arkansas stones.


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## Karda

do you use oil or water with your Arkansas stones.


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## Loren

The rubber type material holds the profiles on
the edges of the strop in a way leather cannot.

It's a good strop… it works and the profiles
are hard to duplicate in another type of strop.
The flat portion works no better or worse
than a leather strop, imo.


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## Planeman41

I use light 3-in-1 oil on my Arkansas stones.


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## TravisH

I end up using a little of everything. I have an assortment of diamond stones, Arkansas stones (find them frequently at antique stores here for cheap), and picked up several Shapton Ceramics few months ago. I have sheets of sandpaper also down to 3 microns.

Black Arkansas is generally regarded as the finest Arkansas stone available at 4-8 microns due to the crystal morphology. Semi transparent has larger crystal size. DMT Extra Fine Diamond stone is 2-4 microns. Honing compounds frequently less than 2 microns.

So whether you want to sharpen to 10 microns and finish up with a paste or go to 4 microns and finish with a paste you end up in the same sharpness if done correctly. Speed of getting there really the only difference.


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## Karda

Hi, iwouls like to line up my sharpening grits so I don't go courser when I should go finer, I have 2 Arkansas stones' 1 is a varigated brown and the other is mostly gray with dark gray or black viens. I got they when a vendor brought them around I think they were seconds they were 4.00 when new was 8 or 9. any guesses at the grit range thanks Mike


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## Planeman41

Anything I could tell you would be a wild guess. I suggest you e-mail or call Sharpening Supplies. (https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com)


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## mpounders

When i started carving, I thought I understood the process and I tried various stones and diamonds, and strops. Buying a knife at a carving show, I finally started to understand more about how a sharp edge should perform in wood. At the first carving seminar I attended, a vendor was sharpening tools, and I paid him to change the profiles on my gouges to a thumbnail grind and sharpen them all. The next seminar I attended, the instructor brought her Burke sharpener and I got her to show me how to use it. Since then, I have attended a lot of seminars and I have paid attention to what the instructors used to sharpen their tools. I also observed what the professional sharpeners used to sharpen tools for others. Almost all use the Burke sharpener or some variation of it. I only sharpen some of my smallest v-tools by hand; everything else I use the Burke sharpener for. I can easily get the 35 tools I use most stropped and ready in less than 30 minutes, but I keep it by my carving bench and use it whenever an edge needs any attention. It has been years since I have needed to use a stone or anything for sharpening. I occasionally add or replace a tool and I use sandpaper on the Burke to often change the profile to a thumbnail, but after that I only need to use the leather wheel.


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## Karda

could you explain what a thumnail grind is and what is a Burke sharpener thanks


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## mpounders

A thumbnail grind is basically where the wings or sides of a gouge are ground back, looking kinda like a thumbnail. One of my mentors almost exclusively uses #11 gouges in various sizes with a thumbnail grind. This you allows to reach deeper when undercutting, because the wings of the gouge don't dig in. It also allows you to roll the #11 over on the side and get different profiles out of the same tool, depending on how you hold it. Not all carvers like it, but I use it on most of my tools, except v-tools and some of my small Dockyard gouges that I use for buttons and stuff.










The top tool is a v-gouge with a standard straight edge and the bottom tool in both pictures is a #11 with a thumbnail grind.










Here is a picture of a Burke Sharpener and a link.


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## Karda

ok thanks


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