# Delta machinery going out of business?



## ZiggyZ (Nov 14, 2011)

Hi everyone. I recently went to my local woodcraft and noticed they do not have any Delta machinery in stock. The salesman stated to me that they've been having serious issues with Delta providing their orders and have since refused to carry their line anymore. Has anyone else heard of this happening or know what the reason is? The salesman stated that they were on their way to being out of business. Just wondering if there's any truth to this?


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## AandCstyle (Mar 21, 2012)

I don't know anything about Delta, but the local Woodcraft went out of business and they didn't have much stock on hand prior to that. FWIW


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## syenefarmer (Dec 19, 2009)

Well the "rumor" I heard was that Delta was moving 100% of their tool production back into the United States but will only be selling their product in China.


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## eaglewrangler (Jun 15, 2011)

loved my older delta tools, hard to imagine them folding, but might be cutting lines of tools. Sadly most brand names are going poor quality. On my third Hitachi air compressor this fall, buy junk, return junk to Lowes, get replacement, see you next month. Had many good Delta tools for 20 years, but not sure on new tools from any company. The early 90s appears to be the golden age for tools, still have many things from then. They are worth repairing, not much use for many new tools with 6 month life.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

*"Well the "rumor" I heard was that Delta was moving 100% of their tool production back into the United States but will only be selling their product in China."*

LOL….did you start that rumor?!


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

The salesman stated to me that they've been having serious issues with Delta providing their orders and have since refused to carry their line anymore. Has anyone else heard of this happening or know what the reason is?

After Delta was sold last year and moved their production facility to South Carolina, they did have some issues with filling orders. All that happened was that orders for the products increased faster than they could get the production lines spun up. Unfortunately that caused some doubt about the company so a few retailers dropped them and started a yo-yo of sales forecasts vs. production. Last I knew, Delta was still doing OK and have been working to increase production without letting the quality slip.

The salesman stated that they were on their way to being out of business.

That sounds more like the opinion of an unhappy salesman rather than fact. He is probably jaded after missing a few sales due to the supply issues.


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## syenefarmer (Dec 19, 2009)

*LOL….did you start that rumor?!*

Absolutely not! I heard it at Badger Pond or was it The Oak?


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

Lot of folks over at IAP wondering the same thing see link for discussion. Yes, they move office SC, but still owned by same Chinese company. JMHO, more to do with down turn in economy than bankruptcy or going out of business, but have been wrong before.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f30/delta-lathe-woodcraft-103241/


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## MNgary (Oct 13, 2011)

The independently-owned franchise may have reached it's credit limit with Delta. Suppliers are reluctant to ship goods to stores with outstanding balances due.


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## MonteCristo (May 29, 2012)

Delta changes hands so often it's not worth keeping track.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

New Delta CEO says customer's won't notice the transition

http://www.woodmagazine.com/blogs/woodworking-blog/2011/01/14/new-delta-ceo-says-customers-wont-notice-the-transition/#more-2286

Delta became a subsidiary of TOTY (Chang Type Industry) last year and far as I know still owned by them. While right now TOTY does not make tools for Delta. Many of the old Asian that companies made Delta woodworking equipment still do.

Well think customers are seeing hick-ups, whether that means Delta will fold not so sure.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I heard this from three machinery distributors in the last two weeks. They were not sure what was going to happen to Delta.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## DraftsmanRick (Jan 8, 2010)

Personally, i've bought two (2) delta machines over the past 10 years. My first purchase was a 10" table saw with a 30/31" rip copacity. The second was a 14" bandsaw. I have to say that when i bought my table saw from woodcraft they only had saws that would tilt right (which i didnt like). The band saw was clearly subbed out in Asia somewhere. SO, for me, i will never buy delta again and havent spent a dime on them in the last 5 years. My 8" jointer, and 13" planer are by other well known manufacturers. Personally, aside from any Americans losing a job there, i hope they bite the dust for subbing out their crap while pimping America with Norm Abram's face. Just my $.02.


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## Underdog (Oct 29, 2012)

That's quite interesting.

So Delta is a Chinese company now. I was amazed to learn that Delta Unisaw was made right here in the US. But it's even more amazing that the company is now owned in China.

On the other hand SawStop is made in Taiwan, and is owned, operated, and engineered here in the US.


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## Kreegan (Jul 10, 2012)

I bought a Delta 46-460 lathe a few weeks ago, and had problems with the spindle wobbling badly. I called Delta for support and the phone rang awhile before an extremely bored and disinterested lady answered. She immediately referred me to a local service center for warranty service. When I called them about getting it looked at, they said it was taking them weeks and weeks to get parts, with an obviously implied "if we get them at all" sort of message. I just decided to return it. I will not be purchasing any more Delta products.


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

I have a few Delta items two large Norm abram saws and a spindle osscilating sander a lathe etc etc and yes you can buy them here in the uk or at least could.I can't see them folding down though too much money in it for them. Alistair


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## DraftsmanRick (Jan 8, 2010)

I believe they kept the Unisaw here for quality purposes. I mean, if your going to spend 3-5k on a tablesaw, it better be up to specs, and expectations! This also drives the sales of other lower models they offer that have been produced off shore, for people who cant afford the big boys. 
I understand all the angles of cheap labor, and while i cant say i've taken the time to research and find out where every tool i have bought is made, i'll say that it serves them right if they go belly up. The down hill slide usually starts with upper management wanting to cut corners with buying cheaper parts and supplies to build their product. Yes, it will cost more in the beginning for quality, and the price will be a factor for some, but in the old days if you wanted something worth a #@$%, you saved for it! Times sure have changed…
As far as currency, if the US made China bring up its currency value to where we were all on a equal playing field, then the price of all these products shipped to the good ol' US of A, would be as expensive as if they were made right here! Then, all those companies would be moving back here and they could avoid the shipping cost to get their product here. But then, you would be paying $10 for a spoon because everyone wants to make a million doing very little or next to nothing these days.


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## DraftsmanRick (Jan 8, 2010)

The beauty of freedom is being able to make purchases or not, and being able to vote with your feet. Delta will hopefully make a statement about the cosequences of poor quality, one way or the other.


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

Well said Rick I hope they stay around and stop cutting corners though. Alistair


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## MJCD (Nov 28, 2011)

Regardless of who owns Delta, the question is whether their tools represent the store-of-value we associate with the Brand. For my part, I stopped purchasing both Delta and Porter-Cable some years ago. When my Unisaw dies - I have an old, very reliable Unisaw - I'll have to get a Felder or PM66.

MJCD


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

Delta makes quite a few industrial level machines, and while there are some companies giving them a run for the money, the uni-saw alone will most likely keep them in business unless they are being driven into the ground by new ownership.

See they also have shapers, planers jointers and things of this nature most hobbyists would not see, and as for woodcraft, well back when we had one, I would buy some more hobby like things from them, but the industrial level stuff tended to be a bit overpriced. As in I could find it for less elsewhere, or wait til someone shipped it to me.


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## History (Dec 22, 2012)

It just goes to show you how a bunch of greedy know it all CEO's of a company can destroy an American icon. It's absolutely disgusting, and there should be a law against it. We have a Bobcat skid stear loader plant here intown. In just a matter of a few years it went from the long time original company, then to Ingersol - Rand for a few short years, and now owned by someone in North Korea. They moved the once Union jobs out, and brought some of the jobs back at non union wages. Nice huh ?


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## SamuraiSaw (Jan 8, 2013)

I doubt Delta's commercial line will be sufficient to keep them viable. Many companies have added "pro-sumer" lines to appeal to the hobbyist and small professional shops. Delta's reputation is slipping rapidly, and it really is a bad thing when companies like Rockler and Woodcraft drop them.

I won't go so far as to call Delta an "icon". That seems a little obsessive.


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## saucer (May 1, 2010)

They need to go out business, they have been building junk for the last 10 years…


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## BroncoBrian (Jan 14, 2013)

if a bunch of consumers decide not to buy their stuff and store stop selling it, doesn't matter much what the CEO says. Might not be their choice now…


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## History (Dec 22, 2012)

Saucer, I can't argue with that. They tried selling imported Grizzlky grade machines at Delta prices. Grizzly's customer service beat Delta into the ground. Serves them right, but a cryin shame that the employees and their families took a hit over CEO greed. If I ever bought a new Cabinet saw, I'd still buy a Delta though, nothing else that I know of is made in the US. For a couple hundred less you could buy a imported PM or a JET, but why ? I'd rather have the new engineering and good old American craftsmanship. Get your act together Delta, Go America !


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## History (Dec 22, 2012)

*I won't go so far as to call Delta an "icon". That seems a little obsessive.* Maybe they aren't now, but they sure were, ever since atleast the 1930's.


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

If Delta is failing, it might be because of Chang Type's decision to keep manufacturing operations in the U.S.


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## History (Dec 22, 2012)

*If Delta is failing, it might be because of Chang Type's decision to keep manufacturing operations in the U.S.* Please explain.


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

Delta's competitors are, as far as I know, doing pretty well. This thread has introduced the rumor that Delta is not doing well (which may or may not be true, I don't know). One difference between Delta and Delta's competitors is that Chang Type chose to keep manufacturing operations in the U.S. Delta's competitors, predominantly, have located their manufacturing operations in countries with lower labor costs.

When the world's consumers consider Delta, they may believe Delta's products at Delta's prices represent a lower value to them than do the products of Delta's competitors. This could be the cause of Delta's failure if, in fact, Delta is failing.


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## SamuraiSaw (Jan 8, 2013)

One of the reasons for the increased domestic labor costs is the stranglehold unions have put on this country. Outrageous union benefit contracts have caused many companies to either falter or fail.


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## History (Dec 22, 2012)

Thats what I have a hard time with, the subject of labor costs. I think that it's more like the cost of management salaries, especially when they do idiotic things that bring their own company down. And as far as Unions go, I'm all for them, I've worked for a few employers that would never get away wikth what they did if they were Union. Actually I'm suprised that the American worker hasn't had enough yet to bring back the Unions. The average worker in this country has takein a beating in this country for the last 20 years, and now we got to listen about how broke our country is and that we may need to pay for a bunch of unAmerican CEO's mistakes that our goverment allows to happen ? Great How much more of a price do we have to pay ? This is what really bothers me when I sit here and watch a group of american craftsmen advertising Harbor Freight.


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

SawSucker, what idiotic things has Delta's management done?


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## History (Dec 22, 2012)

Sent jobs overseas and lessened the quailty. You don't see Germany or any other country thats known for it's qualty throwing their jobs away do you ? Maybe you'd understand if you were a blue collar worker.


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

Delta manufactures the Unisaw, RAS and Biesemeyer stuff here. The rest is manufactured in Asia.

I don't know of any product made by a Delta competitor that is manufactured here. Yet, though you call a decision that "sent jobs overseas" idiotic, Delta's competitors seem to be doing very well.

If Delta is failing (and I'm not convinced it is), I believe there's reason to question Chang Type's decision to keep some operations here.


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## History (Dec 22, 2012)

*Delta manufactures the Unisaw, RAS and Biesemeyer stuff here. The rest is manufactured in Asia.* I'm aware of that. *If Delta is failing (and I'm not convinced it is)* I'm not so sure that anyone is convinced about anything that Delta is going to do. We have an ACME Electric up here, they sold and serviced Delta for many years. They have very little if any Delta on the showroom floor now, They won't even uncrate a Unisaw if they have one for the showroom floor. I was told that Delta atleast a year ago requested all the Delta parts from the stores parts departments. Now the consumer has a hard time getting parts from Delta. If Delta does come back, they've got alot of dust port kissin to do to the consumer to get their loyalty back.


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## ScottinTexas (Jan 24, 2013)

Draftsmanrick - " As far as currency, if the US made China bring up its currency value to where we were all on a equal playing field,"

I've never really understood currency manipulation arguments. Maybe it is just my shortcoming. Currency is just a number. Prices all vary so what is the difference? If they devalue their currency, does that mean a dollar buys more of their yuan? So what, their prices are also higher to accomodate for that. Either I'm missing something or this is a specious argument.

I don't think I have to understand it to know the issue. And the issue is a disparity in living standards. The rest is a bunch of numbers that talking heads use to bamboozle people and justify their jobs where they create NOTHING (but hot air gabbing on media outlets.) It also diminishes or eliminates this union-blaming mentality of some folks. Nevermind if the unions are "greedy" like anti-union types like to say….the wage in China is STILL less than what you, the non-union guy, are making. So it doesn't matter because it is still cheaper to move to China….unless you can LOWER your standard of living to a point where it isn't worth it for them to leave. Aaaaah, there is the root of the matter. "Free Trade" is about lowering the standard of living in places like the US. You can forget the argument from the consumer side because if there is any benefit it is short term - those "cheap" goods aren't so cheap when your wages get cut.

The bottom line solution is raising tariffs. Simple and elegant. If a politician did that, I would know he was legit. If I hear some malarkey about "Free Trade" he is evil or a useful idiot.

Hope I haven't gotten too political…. 

Anyway, as far as currency devaluation the dollar has lost 93% of its value since the creation of the Federal Reserve - does that help us?


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

I believe free markets are better than any other kind.

And I hope Delta, if in trouble, makes whatever changes it needs to make in order to survive and thrive.


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## ScottinTexas (Jan 24, 2013)

You can have free markets within a nation. Doing it internationally not only has grave economic consequences, as we can see, but also then necessitates laws that TRANSCEND ours. That is one piece of the puzzle of why this is happening.

Can you name a globalist that is against international trade? I can't.


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

"Doing it internationally not only has grave economic consequences, as we can see . . . "

Grave economic consequences? Hundreds of millions of our brothers and sisters lifted out of "flies on eyes" poverty to the middle class?

I would add, ScottiinTexas, that we didn't have free markets within the United States for the past several decades, and that's what led to the U.S. joining the move toward globalization.


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## ScottinTexas (Jan 24, 2013)

I have no idea of what you are talking about.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

American labor cost is only "high" compared to the slave wages in 3rd world countries. I am not a particular fan of unions and have never belonged to one but I accept that they would never have risen to power had companies taken better care of their employees.


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## ruel24 (Feb 14, 2012)

All I have to say is that 40 years ago, just about everything was made in America and we could all afford them. A lot of those people were well paid union workers that had good benefits. Yet, we could all afford "Made in USA". What changed? Well, the average house now has a median income that hasn't grown much in real dollars, yet it now takes 2 incomes to make that. Effectively, we make 1/2 the money we once did for doing the same job - unless you are in the upper income brackets. We've opened up our markets from fair trade to free trade, allowing our companies to shop our jobs against the labor prices of 3rd world countries they can exploit with no EPA to answer to, and wages paid in a month that don't don't come close to our average worker's weekly pay. Who and what do we blame? The unions… The workers are making too much money and benefits… We can't compete… But somehow we did 40 years ago. We changed from an economy that flourished under the idealisms of John Maynard Keynes to an economy based on the principles of Milton Friedman, who has a history in other countries where his policies led to massive poverety. So, now we make less money, and chase after tax breaks and spending cuts in a race to the bottom. We were a country with the highest standard of living in the entire world but now we are far below that. What happened? Greed. Everyone admits we were in our glory days from 1946 to 1980. So how come we persue a different course? You don't see Germany or even GB shipping jobs off to China like we do. It's pure greed from the top. They get massive profits and massive bonuses, yet we complain about a guy making $40K on the assembly line as making too much to allow our companies to compete. Wealthy corporatations have paid off our politicians to allow this. This is a sad time… We will never compete with the wages of 3rd world countries. It's a simple as that. China is starting to look expensive to some companies, and they've began to look at exploiting Brazil, instead. This is just madness. The US is 1/3 the entire world's market for consumption. Why did we just give everything away like that? Greed. Somehow, our corrupted politicians have rationalized that the more profitable our companies are, the better our country is. Our country, under Keynesian economics and the New Deal, mostly stayed strong from 1946 to 1981 when we began to move toward a Friedman based system. Since then, our country has been on a rollercoaster ride of boom followed by bust that seems to have accelerated as time has passed. Starting in 1981, the New Deal began to be unraveled. That did away with many; of the mechanisms that stopped the economy from having such a rollercoaster ride. But, let's not blame the real reason we're in the mess we're in (bad management, greed, corrupt politicians, total reversal of direction in economic policy and undoing of what made us prosperous) and let's blame it on unions and American workers wanting too good of a life for their families. The unions have become nothing more than a scapegoat. Only 6% of private jobs are unionized. But they're just holding us back…


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## kdc68 (Mar 2, 2012)

ruel24 - well put.


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

I'm a fan of open and free markets. I think Bill Clinton and others before him saw the handwriting on the wall and opened things up.


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## Ted78 (Dec 3, 2012)

Sounds like Delta might be going the way of Craftsman. The quality of their power tools plummeted in the 80's and shortly thereafter the quality of their hand tools went to pot. I suspect upper management making the mistake of thinking the value was in the brand name, not in the tools themselves.


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## Workfast (Jan 16, 2012)

ruel24 hits the nail right on the head! Iam old enough to rember the days when one salary was all an average family needed to live on. Think about that. What happen to those days? One per cent of the people now get 23 per cent of the income, and still get bonuses and bail outs, when they almost cause another Great Depressuion!


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## ruel24 (Feb 14, 2012)

Mark Davisson, what's so good about it? Please explain…


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## ruel24 (Feb 14, 2012)

Ted, I think you hit the nail on the head. I have a theory about how great companies go bad, and its based on that early CEO's have much more pride in the product. Later CEO's see the financial part of the company, only, and make moves to lower costs to increase margins and their bonuse and that leads to more consumer dissatisfaction, etc. The brand is nothing more than a commodity. Eventually, the brand loses its luster.

It's interesting that in Europe, they take a completly different approach. They pride themselves of the products they make. A German wouldn't be caught not driving a German made automobile, for instance. A Brit longs to own a Jag, Land Rover, Aston, Rolls, or Bentley, though most probably can't afford them. In America, they could care less.


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## DraftsmanRick (Jan 8, 2010)

Rule 24 I agree with your last post.
As for Pro Union people, 40-50 years ago I could see the need. But with the minimum wage and OSHA requirements, things are different. I will finish by saying; I don't need anyone to go into my boss's office and sell what i have to offer, , I can sell myself! if you don't like working for a rich man/men, then risk your your own money to create jobs for other people! What a concept! Or go get a job from a poor man? somehow this country has gravitated towards hating the evil rich who by the very same freedoms you have, achieved their personal goals and for that they are hated.


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

ruel24, there are many good things about free and open markets. But the best thing, in my opinion, is that they marry price to value. The price of an item or service should equate to the value of that item or service. And the value of an item or service in the marketplace should be what someone is willing to pay for it now. Think auction. Think Priceline.com. Last week enough people were willing to pay $750 per night for a New Orleans motel room to fill the place. That was the value of the room last week. This week the most the motel can charge before having an unsustainable level of occupancy is $200. That's the value of the room this week. Same room, different values, and it's the marketplace that sets it, not the owner of the motel.

As it relates to this discussion, the NLRA act of 1935 placed a barrier between the price and value of labor. It enabled a worker to tell his boss that he was going to start charging a higher price (wage) for his services not because the worker's value had increased but because, if the higher price wasn't paid to him, he would walk out. And that's ok, but the NLRA explicitly prohibits the boss from buying the same service from others in the (job) marketplace at the price (wage) that the boss is willing to pay.

The disconnect between the price and value of labor was causing some stresses in our economy that were unsustainable. I believe now (I didn't believe it at the time) that the only practical (that is, politically practical) way to relieve those stresses was to open up the markets. And it fixed (or is fixing) the things that were broken, but the fix has created new challenges, that's for sure.


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## History (Dec 22, 2012)

*It's interesting that in Europe, they take a completly different approach. They pride themselves of the products they make.* Somehow that got lost here in the USA.


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

As sawsucker stated, about a year ago, Delta requested that all parts be returned to their plant in SC. Most companies returned the stuff they didn't sell and had been sitting around for a long time and held the parts they turned over more frequently. They deemed it a failure to get parts back into the market. The after-market people have taken the opportunity to sell more blades and etc that were originally mostly Delta parts.

We also have an Acme here and I have some friends in parts and management, they have varying opinions, one says he sees them starting to come back, and the other claims it is inevitable….
At their big sale days there used to be a Sales Rep, now I have not seen him in a year or so. I too, have a lot of Delta stuff and hope to see them come back.

Oh..In talking to the Rep more than a year ago, it is owned by a Korean Company and manufactured here in SC…that seems backwards from anything I have heard of lately. In dealing with some asian companies in my business, they are very tight with a buck and very profit driven. But I can't see them letting it fail, if only to save their investment.


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## ruel24 (Feb 14, 2012)

Mark, I call BS. You see, it's the same thing as a company refusing to do work on your house for anything less than they charge. They give you a price for their work, just as collective bargaining gives the company a price for their labor, and after negotiations, they have the right to refuse or accept, just as you have the right to refuse or accept the price offered by the contractor. You have the option of getting someone else, and so did those companies. They've long had the right to lockout union employees and hire someone else. They've also had the right, while unions were on strike, to hire someone else. It's that simple. Then there is the fact that unions never had anything more than 35% of the market for labor, and that was largely skewed by the massive number of public employee unions. Private company shop and multi-employer trade unions' marketshare was much lower. Therefore, the bulk of the blue collar employed world was not union and just as they are now. There was no gap between the price and value of labor. What happened is the opening of a free market economy just allowed them to devalue labor, simply by having the option of shopping the cost of labor against the prices in 2nd and 3rd world countries, and to sidestep the EPA in the process.

Free market economics is the brain child of Milton Friedman, who in Chile, Brazil, and other countries in the 1970's implemented this type of extreme capitalism, and in every case there was 500+% inflation, 40% drop in labor wages, and massive poverty, while a select few got massively wealthy. What are we seeing now in the US after slowly implementing these same policies over the last 34 years? Growing poverty, 50% drop in labor wages (2 incomes do what 1 used to), and everything is getting more and more expensive. Have you priced a new car, lately? It's common to do 72+ month purchases, whereas we used to never exceed 36 months way back then. It's a complete bust…


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

"They've long had the right to lockout union employees and hire someone else."

Yes, they've long had the right. But that option doesn't actually exist much for employers. Those replacement workers would report to work, at least here in central Indiana, under the threat of violence to themselves and their families. There aren't many actual stories of violence on the picket line here in my town, but the few cases that have occurred are legendary, and today's union members like to repeat them at every opportunity.

My roommate in college was poor as dirt. He had the opportunity to work as a replacement worker at one of the major downtown (Baltimore) hotels for an unbelievable (to him) wage. He worked as a housekeeper, changing linens on beds and emptying waste baskets. The striking workers, though my roommate was elated to work for the wage they were refusing, decided their "value" was greater than that of anyone else needing a job, so they demanded more. After leaving the hotel on his second day, I had to clean him up from the beating he had taken in the alley at the hands of striking workers. He didn't (actually, he couldn't) go back the next day.


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

For one, Grizzley is not always perfect on delivery, I know someone referrenced them in their lower lines in competition with delta and they are, but not all of their equipment is awesome, some of the industrial grade machines are top notch, but the stuff at the price range we're talking here, well, parts that don't fit, parts meant for other machines that don't quite work properly, not unheard of.

Unions… well gee when you have to pay someone 25 dollars an hour just to sweep the danged floors, yeah, our country can't compete with that, and the fact that unions back politicians in favor of out sourceing jobs… yeah, unions are an issue, they should be allowed to help keep the working conditions safe, but ummm not allowed at all in politics.

Price verses foreign manufactured tools… I hate to tell you this, but dewalt is owned by black and decker, their quality has dropped drastically over the past 20 years, as pretty well everyone's quality because they are trying to reduce prices to compete price wise, this is actually kind of the problem with out sourcing tool production, craftsman outsources alot of their tools to other companies to increase volume and reduce costs, but then how many people think of their products as high quality now? 
All that to say, you get what you pay for, if you pay for a tool based on the costs without having done research, guess what you may get a junker. Now, there are some tools that cost less that are in fact better quality, but then that's why there are reviews here so you can see what other people have to say about things.

AS to the parts thing… bad news guys when you import tools, you also have to import the parts, in todays society, people would rather sell you a new tool than a part to fix things. It's also harder to get parts when the tools parts are not made here, and while you might think things are made here you might want to do more research, because alot of things are just assembled here, which means the parts are still just as low of quality as what the competitors use because they get them from the same place.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

TCCcabinetmaker-Actually, if memory serves my right, Craftsman/Sears has never built any tools … they have always outsourced their manufacturing.

I have been watching this discussion about Delta closely … I have a 46-460 midi lathe, and hope they will get the parts/supply channel issues straightened out before I need anything. It is a great tool.

-Gerry


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

THey did way back, I have an actual american made jigsaw from craftsman, and well it still works, I just don't like the collet or blade type since there have been quantum leaps in the past ten years in that technology.

(it's like sixty years old)


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## History (Dec 22, 2012)

DeWalt has allways been owned by Black and Decker, it was their industrial line. Luckily I bought a bunch of DeWalt tools when they were still made in the USA, and they are yellow.


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

I hate to correct you publicly, ok not really but here's the history of dewalt….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeWalt


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## History (Dec 22, 2012)

Hey, I don't mind being corrected if someone can prove me wrong. But it's not like I was that far off in saying what I said.


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## fuigb (Apr 21, 2010)

Corporate greed did in the working class? Ha. Ever been in an auto plant? Ever see the drinking and the sleeping and the theft? Corp leaders got away from high-cost, low-productivity labor, first by automating, then by moving south and then by going overseas. General non-productivity and wildcat strikes were the greedy derigeur of the blue collar, and the present is just proof that management succeeded in doing it harder to labor than labor was able to do to the shareholders.

Re: Delta going under… doubt it. Their rep was writing his pencil down to a nub at a recent sale at a local industrial tool shop sale up my way. Per the brochure that I saw the line runs from junk to industrial, with a radial arm saw and stock feeders made here in the US.

Labor overplayed its hand and missed their opportunity to headoff off-shoring. Instead they protected the drunks and spent their treasure on snowmobiles and cabins. Shoulda bought the dang companies and straightened out the membership. If they had our Jets and Deltas and most everything else would still bear both the union label and Made in USA tags.


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

I have to call BS on Mark too now that I've backtracked to see what others are saying….

Prices to values? huh? no it's called a guy you can pay 25 cents a week verses a guy you have to pay a thousand dollars a week to. That's realistic numbers, you really have no concept as to what is really breaking the market and while I hate to wax political, theres not really a whole lot of choice if we are going to fix the issues.

Our country was setup to run the federal government off of tarriffs and taxes from foreign goods. Since the korean war stop gap of income tax, people seem to think that the government should be allowed to extort money for the right to earn a living. Just think how quickly the deficit would dissappear if we just put trade tarrifs back on china alone… Just think how level the playing field would be for the comon worker in the U.S, if other countries were forced to compete in a fair market…. Do you think china allows people to dump products on their market? no they don't, they also artificially decrease the value of their money, artificially decrease product costs until foreign competitors go out of business… don't believe me? look at the strapping steel industry… There's alot people "think" they know but really don't. And it only hurts you, and your neighbors to buy into alot of the crap you are told.
Also there are many states that are right to work states, in these states unions really have no authority, because the employer has the right to fire you…. sounds bad? not really, because that's one of the reasons south carolina got delta back. Pretty much the same reason alot of industries have moved to my own state as well… And where the cost of living is lower, it's better, unlike places where the costs of labor are artificially increased do to housing markets such as in california, where we all no unemployment is noooo problem at all, and they have all the money they need to run their state government right? lol


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

TCCcabinetmaker, you are a fount of knowledge.


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## fuigb (Apr 21, 2010)

WTO would pound lumps on us if we imposed tariffs. I too am tired of unfair trade, but treaty obligations prohibit protectionism.


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## SamuraiSaw (Jan 8, 2013)

Maybe we need to tell WTO to pound sand?


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

I've always read a little deeper than what they told me…
But if I'd have known what I know now back when I was in high school and college, maybe I could have straightened out a few teachers and professors before they unknowingly mislead alot of people and helped contribute to the problem….

I personally take alot of pride in every piece I build, and while I used to have to use chineese plywood to get my costs down, the price has just about gotten negligible between american and foreign made plywoods due to shipping fuel costs and dropping quality, I will be buying even more american.
And there is often a huge difference between american/european and chineese made tools, especially in the hobbyist/contractor level grades.
But back to the topic, delta will be fine as long as their parts aren't being shipped from korea… kinda like kia… just hard to get parts from korea…


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

WTO… yeah, go look into who those people really are… They do not have YOUR best interests at heart… They hate you.


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

TCCcabinetmaker, read a little deeper on the company that owns Delta.


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## fuigb (Apr 21, 2010)

WTO, love us or hate us we're bound to the rules via treaty. Treaties ratified by US senate are the law of the land, and as noted the international body has power to sanction if we step out of line. US Con Law 101 and International al Law 201.

The alternative is autarky / self-sufficiency, and no bloody way we can maintain our present standard of living if we give the finger to the world. First, we need oil. Then we need light bulbs…


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

WE umm have more oil than they do lol…


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## fuigb (Apr 21, 2010)

Aside from the small matters of extracting, refining, and transporting you're correct.


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## SamuraiSaw (Jan 8, 2013)

*"Re: Delta going under… doubt it. Their rep was writing his pencil down to a nub at a recent sale at a local industrial tool shop sale up my way. Per the brochure that I saw the line runs from junk to industrial, with a radial arm saw and stock feeders made here in the US."*

In today's market, no company will survive on the commercial market alone. Every major manufacturer has developed a "pro-sumer" line to bridge the gap between the homeowner, hobbyist and small professional. That is an economic decision. Delta is killing themselves in that market and will soon lose what market share they have.


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## fuigb (Apr 21, 2010)

Killing themselves by producing junk that savvy consumers will not buy? If do then I agree. Ask Sears/Craftsman how that worked out for them.

In the vein of off-shoring I spent some time speaking w General's rep, and he told me that they were closing the last Canadian plant. "Just cannot afford North American wages," he explained. So another one down.


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## ScottinTexas (Jan 24, 2013)

#70 states what I said about "free trade" results in giving up sovereignty.

"and no bloody way we can maintain our present standard of living if we give the finger to the world."

Uh, we aren't maintaining our standard of living by trading with the world.

Short term thinking. Sure, you can think you are rich if you spend a lot of money on credit cards. SAME THING here. You will be worse off in the long run…and that time is now.


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## fuigb (Apr 21, 2010)

^ I believe that you're missing the point, or maybe we're talking about different things.

Impose restrictive tariffs and cost of living will spike. Then, what about everything that we must import? Without imports we will be walking, sitting in dark, communicating with smoke signals, etc. no country can stand alone, and the international community will punish us if we illegally protect domestic manufacturing. Cheap labor and interdependence isn't going away, so the choice is to either make the most of it or close the borders and effectively condemn our have-nots to a third world existence.


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

I'm not an anti-universal healthcare or anti-regulation guy, but I think it should be pretty clear to everyone what will be happening over the coming two or three years with the cost increases that American businesses will be experiencing. Those increased costs will be reflected "at checkout."

If Delta is struggling now, I suspect it's going to get worse.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

The real rumor.

In January, 2011, Taiwan-based Chang Type Industrial Co., Ltd. purchased the Delta brand from Stanley Black & Decker.[2] Chang Type formed a wholly owned subsidiary, Delta Power Equipment Corp. to own the acquired assets including trademarks, designs and industrial tooling.[1] Chang Type is moving Delta's production tooling from a Stanley Black & Decker owned facility in Jackson, Tennessee to a facility in Anderson County, South Carolina.[3] Bryan Whiffen is President & Chief Executive Officer and Norm MacDonald is Executive Vice President & Chief Operating Officer of Chang Type's Delta Power Equipment Corp. subsidiary.

It's been reported on several different forums that during this take over and move Delta's service, parts and getting rebates are in the toilet. hopefully they'll get their crap together.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

There was a $50 rebate on my lathe when I bought it in July 2011 … their customer service was super helpful (the machine shop I bought it from didn't have rebate forms yet) and the check arrived in less than 2 weeks.

-Gerry


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

mark yes, prices would go up, but the lack of a federal income tax would return 15-35% of money that you earn… since the government wouldn't be taking it out of your back pocket anymore… That would most likely offset any price increases, depending on what import taxes were set at. But then I guess if you are in favor of free trade you have a future home set up in a foreign country anyways where you might actually be able to afford to live, since most people won't be able to afford to live in this country anyways, you know after all the jobs have gone overseas… We can 't all work at the drive in, because then money would only be going out.


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

TCCcabinetmaker, huh? No more federal income tax? Where did that come from?


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