# Why Aren't There More Women Woodworkers?



## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

My question is sincere, so please don't chew me up and spit me out for it.

Why is it that we don't see more woodworkers who are women?

Is it at least starting to increase?


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## 3woodworkers4life (May 27, 2014)

My wife is disabled & cannot work outside of the home. She is fixing to start doing a little woodwork on her better days. She will not be able to pick up a heavy piece of wood, but we'll help cut the pieces to size for her. She's helped me in the past & she's looking forward to using a scroll & band saw again. We made sure the table was at the correct height for her chair.


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## Texcaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Linda Manzer has been building guitars for the likes of Pat Metheny forever.

http://www.manzer.com/guitars/


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## NoThanks (Mar 19, 2014)

Good question, 
I was wondering myself why there aren't more men that are Mr moms. lol


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## changeoffocus (Dec 21, 2013)

I've seen quite a few very accomplished ladies on this site. Hence my statement that I like the diverse membership on this site.
In 7th and 8th grade (1957) all ladies took shop classes and boys took home ecc. co-ed. 
The ladies always excelled in woodworking especially finishes. 
I think it's a patience thing. 
By the way we have many lady pipefitters in our trades and they excel in welding. 
Maybe the ladies just don't make as much noise.


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

i have known a number of women in the related trades
over the years
taught some too (still do)

you don't hear many say things like

'here hold my my beer , and watch this'

but then again
you don't hear many men say

'oh, look at my new choo's'


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

There happens to be a large group over at the Stumpy Nubs thread. All skill levels too.


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## Buckethead (Apr 14, 2013)

Chicks dig me. I guess there just isn't enough time left over for other interests.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Fewer girls than boys are introduced to woodworking at an early age. Society is to blame.


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

Most women I know have no interest in woodworking…I'm not sure why; I don't think it is a sexist thing, they are all otherwise independent professionals, they just prefer to knit (seriously) or have book clubs (again, seriously) rather than have woodworking for a hobby.


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## longgone (May 5, 2009)

Quite a simple answer…there are not as many women woodworkers because most women are just not interested in woodworking, sawdust, mess, tools, etc. The women that have do have an interest are very talented and skilled. My wife and I participate in a lot of art and high end craft shows and we notice most female artists focus their creativity on other mediums.

I have tried to get my wife interested in working in the shop but she has absolutely no interest.


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## changeoffocus (Dec 21, 2013)

plus 1 on Greg, my wife likes the output from the shop but not the process, to each his own.


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## KarenW (May 29, 2012)

We're out there but it's a different world for us.
Now I won't pretend to speak for other women in woodworking so I'll speak from my experience only.
I was the first girl in my entire county to take wood shop in high school in 75/76. It took a meeting of the school board and a letter from my parents to get me in and of course there was talk. I passed with flying colors and the teacher wasn't easy on me since he wasn't crazy about having me in his class. He tried to assign my jobs in the shop as sweeping up and putting away and keeping me away from the tools because he was sure I was going to cut off my arm. I finally had a meeting with him and explained that I knew my way around a table saw - learned from my father and grandfather - that I could identify any species he'd care to whip out and for Christmas the previous year I got a set of turning tools. After that, we understood each other.

Over the years I tried to find other things that held my interest-cooking, crochet, needlework and the like (my x-husband wasn't crazy about a wife with a wood shop, one of the reasons he's now an X)  
but I kept going back to wood. With a granddad and father who both had shops, I couldn't help it.

The x-husband finally gave up and started ignoring it and I got into it full time, starting with antique furniture (what my dad did and what I knew best). It wasn't easy dealing with lumber yards and hardware stores. Answering the same question - "What are you going to do with it?" became tedious and hearing the same "Honey, have your husband come down and we'll get him what he wants" irritated me beyond words. I also dealt with stereotyping - a woman with short hair, a strong back and into woodworking had to be gay. Just no way around it. Otherwise she'd be in the kitchen and raising kids.

Please.

When I got into carving and inlay, attitudes changed a bit. People appreciated the 'art' but they still didn't believe the building and repairing parts. I learned to let it go. I didn't care if they knew I built all the bookcases in the house or the entertainment center or the headboard. Or if I rebuilt and refinished the old oak armoire and the kitchen table. It didn't matter because my customers were happy, I was making money and I knew my skills.

That was years ago. Too many to think about. 
I've been working on furniture now for 33 years. After our house burned in '09 my partner and I rebuilt a log home and most of the furniture in it. I put up all the tongue and groove vaulted ceiling because he couldn't deal with the scaffolding. We share tools equally though he claims the table saw as his, I claim the lathe as mine. 

I was fortunate to find him. He appreciated my determination and my knowledge and I think he was a bit envious of my router bit collection. lol The fact that I'm not into makeup and fashion and designer nails was a plus for him - that's money that can go towards another load of cherry and walnut - as long as I cleaned up pretty well so we could go out in public. He's never had to explain a design, never had to convince me on a tool purchase and knows I won't fuss if the yard isn't mowed when we're in the midst of a build.

I think one of the things about women woodworkers is that we're not taught the same things as children that boys are taught. I was lucky to have a dad that did take the time. Mom still taught me to cook and clean and do laundry but I had the added benefit of also being allowed in the shop. Both of my grandfathers were also good about letting me 'help' with repairs and building jobs which was where I learned framing and electrical. 
Some women also have problems with physical strength. Let's face it - a sheet of plywood isn't the easiest thing to move around without help. Then there's the sweating, the dust, the noise, the occasional mashed thumb and too-tight collets. Not things little girls are taught to appreciate or understand.

But I believe the main thing is desire and an early introduction to the woodworking world. Maybe there isn't an interest and that's OK. But I think if more girls were at least exposed to it we'd see more women woodworkers around.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

Let me condemn society. In my youth girls took home economics and the boys were sent to shop. No choice. So society mandated it then. In the 35 years since I graduated, things have changed dramatically. More and more women involved in mechanics, woodworking and other physical trades. Oddly, I see more young men moving into the "traditionally female" jobs such as secretarial and nursing. In the current younger generation, I find young women to be much better workers than young men. A big thumbs up to the women, a depressing thumbs down to the young men.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

I firmly believe that it's increasing. There is a lot more here than people realize. They just don't talk as much as some of us.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

KarenW, Good for you! I think there are a lot of very talented female woodworkers out there.


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## KarenW (May 29, 2012)

> I firmly believe that it s increasing. There is a lot more here than people realize. They just don t talk as much as some of us.
> 
> - mojapitt


Of course I'm laughing now.


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

KarenW, I absolutely loved reading your story. Thank you!


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## Sanding2day (May 6, 2013)

Can only assume this is a societal influence development. Believe that this will change over time. I include my wife and daughters in the shop time as appropriate and this may not have been the case in days gone by. May have been learning a different skill set/interest working with mom exclusive.


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## KayBee (Jul 6, 2009)

Ditto a lot of what Karen W said. My dad taught me to build starting as a toddler. Working on a house with him was way more fun than staying home doing dishes. And when we were done, dad would get ice cream or Mcdonalds (don't tell mom). No shop class though.

I keep running into women woodworkers in unexpected places. Most don't seem surprised anymore about another woman woodworker. Many just seem to quietly fit it into busy lives and don't get around to talking about it much.


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## summerfi (Oct 12, 2013)




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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Well my wife is just lazy. If we are being honest here. She'd rather watch the real house wives of whatever than get dirty.


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## TravisH (Feb 6, 2013)

Women woodworkers aren't surprising to me but figure the low numbers simply has to do with overall lack of interest and little active "recruitment" of any youth into woodworking. My daughter played in my shop when I was messing around out back and helped with projects but she really hasn't shown much interest in years. She was always more interested in knitting, crochet, sewing (not popular anymore with girls she says). My boys could care less also about it, although my middle boy does like to carve some and I give my youngest nails all the time to drive into every piece of wood I don't have stashed out of his reach, so I have hope.

To be honest I can say the same for men also once you get leave a certain demographic. When I was growing up you only took shop if you were failing school or a disruptive student they very much steered a certain type of youth into the class. I don't know anyone that has an interest in woodworking in my overall coworker work experience the past 20 years. Golf, fishing, tennis, running, mountain biking, sailing, etc…. Historically everyone I have known that did woodworking were old guys.


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## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

I guess they just don't want to. My wife like to see it being done and does a little but she said she has other hobbies she enjoys more and I'm OK with that.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

There have been several female woodworkers crop up on youtube lately.


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## kckevin (Jul 14, 2009)

Our local Woodworkers' Guild has seen a marketable increase in the number of Lady Woodworkers. Just a few short years ago we only had two that were members. Now there is probably somewhere north of twenty. We offer a begiining woodworking class twice a year and the ladies usually outnumber the men in those classes. And it's taught by a former high school woodshop teacher that just happens to be a lady. As long as there are the likes of Megan Fitzpatrick and Mag Ruffman out there showing what can be done, I don't see it slowing down any. I welcome the addition of women to the woodshop.


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## lanwater (May 14, 2010)

At Castro Valley adult school, more than half of the students in woodworking class were women.


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## Kentuk55 (Sep 21, 2010)

I think woodworking for women is becoming a growing hobby for the gals who want to. You have to want to, to want to.. This makes sense in my brain.. lol That said, I appreciate all the talented, crafty, and artistic women here on LJ's. Carry on, work/play safe, and keep makin dust to all


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

I think there would be more female woodworkers if more women were interested in woodworking.


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

My wife does some amazing work, but she dosen't post much. It's still a mans world


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

My wife has gotten into woodworking in the past few years and she is thoroughly enjoying herself. At first, she used hand held power tools and was intimidated by the machines but now she uses all of them with confidence. She has a nice inventory of projects she has made and is working on several projects at the moment. At the age of 55, she is and has been one tough cookie and can outpace most men.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

When I enrolled in EE classes back in 1964, there were 45 male students and 1 female. I am sure that ratio is different today and I would also assume that ratio applies to woodworking too.


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

This questioned was asked on our LumberJocks page and I have been blown away by the number of women. They also included pictures of themselves doing projects. I am loving this discussion!


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

It could be that women use their allotment of shellac on nail polish?

Just a thought


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## Woodbum (Jan 3, 2010)

I have seen a large increase in women customers over the past 10 years at events such as The Woodworking Shows. In the late 90's and early 2000s, I rarely saw women at these events. Now there are a lot of women in attendance. The work that I have seen from women woodworkers in some publications such as Fine Woodworking is fantastic. It is a whole lot more creative and artistic than most men's work (with notable exceptions). Without being sexist, I believe that women possess a greater degree of patience than most men; a trait that is necessary to master the art and craft of woodworking. The furniture designs and construction, Intarsia, marquetry, scroll sawing and box making, to name just a few areas coming from women artists is top grade Monte is right in his assessment of the school systems concerning shop and Home Ec. I on the other hand went to a Christian Brothers high school that had Home Ec, but no shop classes. So, no formal training at an early age. I learned it all on my own in my mid 30's after being around the construction trades my whole life. Seminars, books and mags were my teachers along with my self taught class, Decorative Firewood 101. I hope a lot more young women as well as young men take an interest in not only woodworking, but in all of the building trades. We need new blood to carry on. There are too many of us old geezer curmudgeons in the field.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

I wish my wife could be interested in woodworking, but that will never happen. Luckily for me she is very supportive of my woodworking and is never negative to me buying tools and materials and she even encourages me to purchase stuff she knows I want, but that I hold back on because of the cost.


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

> I wish my wife could be interested in woodworking, but that will never happen. Luckily for me she is very supportive of my woodworking and is never negative to me buying tools and materials and she even encourages me to purchase stuff she knows I want, but that I hold back on because of the cost.
> 
> - stefang


She probably loves the results!


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

My wife designs it and I build it. She couldn't build it, and I couldn't design it.


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

> My wife designs it and I build it. She couldn t build it, and I couldn t design it.
> 
> - donwilwol


That makes for an awesome team!


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## Elizabeth (Oct 17, 2009)

I've been interested in woodworking since shop class in seventh grade.

I like creating of all kinds. I can quilt, sew basic things (not clothes), spin yarn, knit, crochet, do woodworking, understand photography (both film and digital). I have a degree in mechanical engineering, though the economy at the time of my graduate meant I never got into the industry professionally.

I'd have loved to have gotten more training in car maintenance, electrical wiring, things like that. My engineering degree taught me how to graph a four stroke engine cycle but not how to change my oil. I considered becoming a locksmith when I was a teenager but was talked out of it by well-meaning relatives. I tried to get a woodworking apprenticeship, also as a teenager, but was declined on insurance grounds by everyone I contacted.

My husband loves that I do woodworking, and is impressed by my shop. He helped me haul a large piece of plywood around the tablesaw earlier this week, which I needed to cut down for a project, and he's got a broken piece of cheap chipboard in a recliner that I am going to replace for him once we get the chair taken apart.

As to your question: Why aren't there more women woodworkers? Consider it a variant on the theme shown in this great advertisement:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/24/verizon-ad-tells-parents-to-encourage-girls_n_5526236.html

Girls are told from birth to be pretty, clean, nice, delicate, polite, deferential…both overtly and subtly. We take these messages in every day, from our family, peers, and from media sources. We're told how we are supposed to behave and socially ostracized (mostly by peers) if we fail to conform.

Girls who have woodworkers in the family might be able to bypass that, at grandpa's house or in dad's shop or, more rarely but more powerfully, in mom's shop.

Girls who aren't lucky enough to have that direct connection with woodworking? By the time they reach middle school, assuming their school's shop program hasn't been cut entirely for budget or "safety" concerns, they have been repeatedly told that woodworking is not for girls. Girls "should" like clothes and makeup and long hair and being told they're pretty and being spotlessly clean all the time. That's not compatible with shop life. Maybe, since I already didn't care about clothes and makeup and being pretty when I was in middle school, I was able to bypass those messages and get stuck into the work. And I had the great good fortune to have landed in shop class in the early 90s, during that prime time between girls not being allowed to do shop classes at all and the suffocating safety and budget concerns that are crushing woodshop programs across the country today.

(Also - the picture in the original post is NOT a woman woodworker. She is a model hired to look seductively at the camera for a male consumer base. This is overwhelmingly the type of image women see when a "woman woodworker" is shown at all - and it's not something we aspire to be.)


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

Elizabeth, thank you for such a well thought out response!


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

> (Also - the picture in the original post is NOT a woman woodworker. She is a model hired to look seductively at the camera for a male consumer base. This is overwhelmingly the type of image women see when a "woman woodworker" is shown at all - and it s not something we aspire to be.)
> 
> - Elizabeth


Great point!

Don't you want to see how her ear protection would fit over that Princess Leia hair style?


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## neverenougftackle (May 6, 2013)

IMOP,,,,it's that voice that say's,,, Hey I can do that, but above all, I want'ah do that.

Not everybody has that same desire. But for those that do,,,,we as a involved society here in the US have came to the conclusion that just because they are women, does not AT ALL put them into a tight Coral of do's and can not do. What a waste of talent and what that it would create, for the other half of the gender to be hampered, that it has been in our past, or would be now and in all of our future.

There is a guide book for our lives, best selling book of all time, that states, False Pride, is a very, very bad thing, it is blinding, an abhorrent to be exact.


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## Elizabeth (Oct 17, 2009)

> When I enrolled in EE classes back in 1964, there were 45 male students and 1 female. I am sure that ratio is different today and I would also assume that ratio applies to woodworking too.
> 
> - oldnovice


When I took digital electronics in high school in the mid 90s, I was the only female in a room of about 20 males. They teased me and made fun of me until they discovered I could solder better than they could.

In my first mechanical engineering class in college, I was one of three girls in a room of about 30 or 35. Two of us sat together for solidarity and are still friends today.

I worked with a Women in Engineering program while in college, mentoring freshmen. One year, probably around 2000, there were only TWO female electrical engineering majors in the entire incoming class, and it wasn't a small program. I don't know what the incoming class size was then, but the website today says it's limited to 125 students per year.

These ratios still need improvement….


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*Elizabeth*, yes the ratios still need improving.
I remember when boys took shop class while girls took home economics and that was the norm. In my high school days there were no girls in shop classes and no boys in home economics. I wonder what the ratio is today and if it is still being "pushed" as hard as it was back in the '50's and '60's.

In my 40 of working in high tech, I worked for at three women managers. Two of those three women managers were some of the best ones I had during my entire caree. I could write pages on some of the really bad managers I have had in my career, most of which were men.


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## lightcs1776 (Nov 14, 2013)

I haven't read through all the posts, and just don't have time. I appreciated Karen's post.

My two cents … well, perhaps one cent. My wife;s father was a cabinet maker, had a shop full of tools, and built a couple of simple things when she was younger. However, there was little to no encouragement for her to try it. I recently started getting into woodworking and purchased a lathe for her. She loves it and appreciates the encouragement she receives to try new projects. I think there are a lot of women would be more prone to try their hand at woodworking if they received encouragement from people they personally know.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Just my two cents … I attribute the relatively small number of women in woodworking to the educational establishment.

When I was growing up, the only options available to female students in our junior and senior high schools were college preparatory courses and home economics … girls were not allowed in any of the so-call industrial arts courses. Boys, on the other hand, could either take industrial arts or college prep … no home economics. Girls were, effectively, pigeon-holed into what the school district felt were traditional roles.

If a girl, or boy for that matter, wanted to cross over the boundaries set by the guidance counselors and administrators, it was a tough fight. My aptitude tests showed that I was suited to be a mechanic, technician, etc. but I wanted to go to college like my brother. As a result, I was never allowed to take any of the industrial arts (shop) classes and every time I tried to sign up for them, my guidance counselor wouldn't approve it "... because you are going to college".


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## Jim Jakosh (Nov 24, 2009)

I do run into women woodworkers from time to time and they are very creative. The women on here make thing I could not- like Kelly ( Scrollingmom). It takes finding your talent and interest and a lot of girls have not gotten a chance to see that they can make things out of wood. I have had some girls on the wood lathes at the high school that were much better than the boys- they have finesse with a gouge and create some nice shapes out of wood. I have tried to get my grand daughters interested but they get scared of the noise of a router or table saw so they don't work with me there.

Karen, I wish I had a wife that loved woodworking as I do. What a neat thing that would be!!
........Cheers, Jim


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

My wife is my staff and I am her's. We lean on each other and thrive on one another. We share the same passion and we bow to one another while sharing the shop. We take joy in knowing we work side by side and most times we utter hardly a word, yet we communicate constantly with our eyes, with our looks, with our smiles and with our touches.


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## Andrewski (Sep 22, 2013)

mrjinx007-You summed it up perfectly. I could not add a thing to that.

Bless you and your wife sir.


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## lightcs1776 (Nov 14, 2013)

Grateful my wife is enjoying woodworking. It is a great connection between us.


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks Andy. good to know we are not alone.


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## KarenW (May 29, 2012)

Elizabeth said:
Girls who aren't lucky enough to have that direct connection with woodworking? By the time they reach middle school, assuming their school's shop program hasn't been cut entirely for budget or "safety" concerns, they have been repeatedly told that woodworking is not for girls. Girls "should" like clothes and makeup and long hair and being told they're pretty and being spotlessly clean all the time. That's not compatible with shop life. Maybe, since I already didn't care about clothes and makeup and being pretty when I was in middle school, I was able to bypass those messages and get stuck into the work.

Oh so right.
Seems to be more so these days. Their role models are Miley and Katie, certainly not Norm or even Grandpa. I can't tell you the number of women I know who can't do simple repairs such as a new plug on a lamp or a running toilet. Not their faults - either they weren't shown or didn't want to ruin the manicure. There are such tight gender-roles of what a girl (or boy for that matter) should and shouldn't do that by a certain age they think of woodworking as a male thing only.

It took a lot of years before my work and what I was able to do sunk in and was accepted by those around me. I still occasionally run on to someone who instantly goes over to Wade to discuss a job but he ends up sending them back to me because I can answer the questions about what types of wood will be best in the design, what types of finishes will complement the design, how long it will take and what it will cost. We both break down the design itself (or create it, depending) and we each have our strengths so we compliment each other in the shop very nicely.

I appreciate the original question and all the replies in this thread.


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## lightcs1776 (Nov 14, 2013)

Karen, miley isn't allowed in my hose. My kids seem to think I'm strict. But, they all know how to use a large, including my 19 YO daughter. And the lathe belongs to my wife.


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

Maybe they just aren't interested in it? I'm sorry to burst your bubbles, but the male and female brains are wired differently. The two halves of the brain, the right and left hemispheres, are joined by a neural highway called the Corpus Collusum. It's bigger in women, which means they tend to think more holistically about things.

Men aren't into traditionally women - dominated hobbies like decorating or textile hobbles; is that an issue? No. Neither should women in woodworking.

If they are into, great, if not, why is it yet another issue that needs correcting in society? Ugh.


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## ellgee (Feb 14, 2013)

Three points from one more woman's point of view:

1) All those good toys (bandsaw, compound-saw, sanders, drills, etc) are downstairs,
why shouldnt I play with them too ?!!

2) The husband used to hear other guys in his club say "my wife will kill me for getting more timber" 
.. while at our house, if he comes home with a trailerload, I'm out there like a flash,
seeing if there's anything that I want.
Similarly with tools-either doesnt mind if the other spends money on them.

3) Never had classes. Just raised to believe that I can do anything
.. unless I try it and find out otherwise.

And I second what Monte said above:
There is a lot more here than people realize. They just don't talk as much as some of us.


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## lightweightladylefty (Mar 27, 2008)

Pashley, to borrow a carpentry term: "You hit the nail on the head!" Yes, there are some women who have a passion for working with wood but why try to push women into a male-dominated area simply because we women think we have to wear the pants in the family?

The breakdown of the home began because we women thought we needed to take over as head of the household, instead of loving and nurturing our children so they could grow up to be loving, nurturing parents. Our self-centeredness is the number one reason why our society today is in such chaos.

If we women would admit that we are the weaker sex and if we would acknowledge men's leadership, we would ultimately live more peaceful lives and do those things which are edifying rather than trying to live a role for which we are not well suited. Women are living as if they need to prove something. Women can be a complement to men; we don't need to compete. Quit trying to prove something, and start enjoying life.

We need to get our priorities in order.

L/W


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## lightweightladylefty (Mar 27, 2008)

Notice the "foreman" in the suit in Summerfi's photo! The men were probably out felling the trees and sawing it into lumber so they left the less-physical work to the women.

L/W


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

I tend to agree with pashley. 100,00 years of evolution isn't gong to change in a couple of generations.


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## lightcs1776 (Nov 14, 2013)

I certainly hope this thread isn't going to go into an us vs them mindset. I don't think Cricket's question had anything to so with whether or not women have a tendency to get into woodworking. I am not in the very least a follower of feminist ideas, and totally agree there are some generalities in both sexes. But, I think a lot more women would find various aspects of woodworking enjoyable if they were encouraged to give it a try. That is certainly the case with my wife.


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## Kentuk55 (Sep 21, 2010)

IMO, there are many talented, crafty, and artistic women on this site, and many more into woodworking of all sorts.


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## Lumberjo (May 19, 2012)

Not to state the obvious, but a lot of women don't have the upper body strength for larger projects (and those are the really exciting ones). And then for every real male woodworker there's a least a dozen wanna-bees whose real excitement is buying new power tools, which (speaking for myself) is just not much of a thrill. And women get more headaches, and even with ear protection shop equipment is LOUD-sometimes I wonder if men are more likely to lose their hearing early on it so doesn't bother them…?

I like to knit too, but woodworking is so much easier, and cheaper.


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## dsdufour (Dec 25, 2012)

I really don't know why but I agree with bigblockyeti.
Society is to blame.

Girls get doll, boys get tools.
Boys are in the shop with dad.
Girls are in the kitchen with mom.

But I can tell you this I have come across some very talented girls in woodworking.

keep making sawdust Cricket


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

> I certainly hope this thread isn t going to go into an us vs them mindset. I don t think Cricket s question had anything to so with whether or not women have a tendency to get into woodworking. I am not in the very least a follower of feminist ideas, and totally agree there are some generalities in both sexes. But, I think a lot more women would find various aspects of woodworking enjoyable if they were encouraged to give it a try. That is certainly the case with my wife.
> 
> - lightcs1776


You are correct. My thoughts were never men vs. women but rather wondering if society as a whole maybe doesn't introduce the same interests to boy and girls. If we introduce the same things to our children and grandchildren, regardless of their sex, we may see a more natural result….

Just my 2 cents…


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*Pashley*, I hate to burst you bubble but recent studies on "brain wiring" indicate that many of those so called differences are society induced not not physiological.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I can't think of a single reason in this country that would prevent a woman from becoming a woodworker if she really wanted to.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## Racer2007 (Jan 13, 2011)

I think there are more around than we might assume , but as others have said it is just not the kind of thing that most young girls are exposed to compared to young men so the numbers are lower. 
I have done a lot of repairs around my Daughters house when ever I visit ( not woodworking per say but still useing wood ) and my Grand Daughter who is 13 seems to have more intrest in learning to use the Tools and work with the wood than my Grandson who is 12.
We refinished a Picnic Table that had been out in the weather for years and now my daughter has it the house in place of the dining table that was there. The finish on it started to peel a bit around some of the boards and my Grand Daughter just took it on herself to resand and reapply the poly before GrandPa got a chance to come back and it looks just great now.


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## DonnaMenke (Sep 20, 2006)

I could write a book on this subject. Really. 
I was not encouraged to do woodworking as a child, but my husband and I took beginning woodworking courses as soon as we got married- in the late 60s. I liked it more than he did, so he gravitated towards metalworking.
At Woodcraft it took me a while to become knowledgeable enough to be valuable to our customers, but after a while I learned, a lot. 
I taught woodworking basics for women where we used 12 power tools to make a cutting board. 4 women at a time, over 2 days, stressing safety. Started with 8' hardwood boards, rough milled, and we ended with a creative project and the confidence to go home and use the tools. I had a waiting list a mile long, and never a failure.
It is not that much different from sewing. Patterns, ways to attach- just the materials and tools are different.
Men and women are smart to be 'scared' of power tools, because they are very dangerous; but with proper and patient instruction there is nobody who cannot learn how to safely use them.
Once you know how to use the tools, the rest is just a matter of will. If you want to- why not.


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## KarenW (May 29, 2012)

If they are into, great, if not, why is it yet another issue that needs correcting in society?
I don't believe this is something that society needs to correct-not at all. There are too many things right now that "society" is trying to correct that maybe should be left alone.
I also don't know what this-they tend to think more holistically about things. means. I try to think logically and rely on my knowledge and experience when in the shop. Holistic thinking must be a wire that's missing from my brain.

I do, however, take some issue with this-*Yes, there are some women who have a passion for working with wood but why try to push women into a male-dominated area simply because we women think we have to wear the pants in the family?*
I don't advocate pushing anyone into anything - meaning I don't believe in pushing girls *into* shop class or pushing them *out* of the work shop at home with a "You need to go back into the kitchen with Mom, this is no place for you to be". If a girl shows some interest, she should be allowed to explore that interest. AND it has exactly ZERO to do with "we" women thinking we have to wear the pants in the family. Many women have had to step into that role out of necessity, being the big boss of the family having nothing to do with it.

Further, *The breakdown of the home began because we women thought we needed to take over as head of the household, instead of loving and nurturing our children so they could grow up to be loving, nurturing parents. Our self-centeredness is the number one reason why our society today is in such chaos.*
Women woodworkers are the cause of societal chaos? 
Really? 
Some of us have stepped out of traditional roles of mothers, nurses, secretaries, cashiers and receptionists and we've thrown society into chaos yet no one blinks an eye at male chefs, male nurses, male cashiers, male potters, male fashion designers or stay at home dads. I had no idea that my chosen profession has wreaked such havoc upon the American way of life. If that's the case then my friend up the road who is a welding artist has really screwed things up although you probably couldn't tell it by how her children turned into fine, upstanding adults.

I will admit that this part-*If we women would admit that we are the weaker sex and if we would acknowledge men's leadership, we would ultimately live more peaceful lives and do those things which are edifying rather than trying to live a role for which we are not well suited. Women are living as if they need to prove something. Women can be a complement to men; we don't need to compete. Quit trying to prove something, and start enjoying life.* just about made my head explode this morning and I've taken quite a bit of time thinking this over while shooting a couple of coats of lacquer so I'm not as apt to react out of emotion rather than rational thinking.

Weaker sex-physically, yes, I'm not as strong as Wade. I can no longer toss a bundle of shingles up on the roof but I can still carry them up. I can't always unchuck that bit with a hand that's developed arthritis over the years. And a sheet of plywood has always given me trouble so I'll concede that point. Yes, I'm weaker than he is.

But I won't concede his 'leadership' role because we don't work as a leader and a follower. We work as a team, each playing to our strengths, each deferring to the other in our weaknesses. He's the undisputed King of the Tablesaw and I bow to his skill. I'm the undisputed Queen of the Finishes and he fully acknowledges that. We ARE the yin/yang of the shop and we work together in a very easy way.

I don't need to prove anything in my woodworking life nor am I competing with anyone. I don't have to-being in business for myself for 33 years is proof enough. Using the kitchen island or the bookcases or the built in cabinetry in the laundry room and the closet are proof enough. Getting up every morning to go out to the finish shop then coming home in the afternoon to go into the home shop-proof enough.

On top of all that, I enjoy every day of my life. My priorities are exactly where they need to be.
And I do it all happily covered in sawdust, smelling faintly of lacquer and feeling successful and productive at the end of the day. If society is in chaos because of what I do then I'll just have to figure out a way to live with that knowledge while I go pick up a new load of cherry from the mill.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

*KarenW:*

Excellent post.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*+1 for KarenW!*


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

KarenW, you totally rock!


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## Dunshuvlin (Oct 8, 2012)

I'm on the other side of the pond from most of the commenters on this topic. There are very few really keen lady woodworkers in the UK but of those few, there are some really good ones. BTW, the word 'lady' is a polite description in English English!

I've taught basic turning skills to a few ladies, who have thoroughly enjoyed learning this skill. A good friend is a keen young female woodworker. All we chaps need to do is encourage them. They might end up better at it than we are! It wouldn't be the end of the world, would it?

Karen W, I admire you.


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## DonnaMenke (Sep 20, 2006)

Karen W- great response. I actually thought the guy was kidding around and trying to get our ire up. He succeeded with me too.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

Since you posted this topic, the question is, do you have any woodworking projects you can post *Cricket*?

Personally I don't believe that there is anything a man can do that a woman can't!
However, there is one thing a woman can do that a man can't.


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

I think, on balance, the sexes are even, in terms of strength, worth - really whatever metric you want to use. Most men are physically stronger then women, but not all. I think women actually do things better then men - such as management. That's a generalization, of course. That's just one thing I've seen, I'm sure there is more.

I think guys - and society in general - are just fatigued with this movement of having to correct issues, there's a victim around every corner and so on…..

I don't think that was the point of the OP, but it triggered that reaction in me, and if that's wrong, I apologize. If a woman - or girl - wants to get into woodworking, bricklaying or being president, I don't have an issue with it. About the only issue I have is a woman being in active combat, or having to have to be put into the position of pitting their physical strength against a mans when someone's life or lives depend on it.


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## lightcs1776 (Nov 14, 2013)

Psshley, I can generally agree with your last comment. Unfortunately the common idea of equal means "the same." This bypasses the incredible uniqueness of each of us.


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

You know, there is nothing wrong with the Ken's of this world who are attracted to the Barbie's of this world. It is a mutual choice;especially when it comes to the world we live in. I see young women dressed up like barbie's who seek young ken's… I see men dressed up like ken's looking for barbie's. As it relates to young men wearing their pants so low so you can see their Y and women doing the same thing, no comment. How much of our young boys and girls are influenced by the retarded TV programs they watch? Perhaps it is the boob tube that has become the criterion as to what a young woman and a young man should think and look like. It is soooooo sad that the media determines our children's thought process. I used to travel throughout the Eskimo communities and got a first hand look at how the media affected young people in those communities. Crime rate among the male teens was scattering. They saw the "real world" via their television and in trying to mimic that "real world" they made fool of themselves. The elders were resentful, the young women felt worthless and were taken advantage of and felt worthless because their bodies and looks did not match of what it was acceptable. This conversation is not about whether women are just as capable as men and vise versa. I know of a woman who at the age of 8 had to pay the bills, cook for her two younger kids, and basically maintain a household in her mother's lack of presence; although she was there. She was taken advantage of both physically and psychologically since the age of 8. She, like the rest of her family became pregnant at the age of 15 and had 3 children before she was 17. Her men left her and she chose to work 2-3 jobs to raise those kids. In the meanwhile, she went back to school and now has a master's degree at the age of 41. I challenge any man out there to be so dedicate to his his family under similar circumstances. You think the ability to be a woodworker is a lipid test of a manhood/womanhood??? If so, I dare you to be a woman and be as dedicated she is to her family and achieve half of what she has in life. I am not putting you down as a man, I am not saying women are better than men, I a not saying men are better than women; what I a trying to covey is that it takes a woman and a man to bring a life into this world.. And it takes that same man and the woman to give meaning and purpose to that life. Regardless of how much the media brainwash you and your kids, the example you set forth, determines their path.

We are talking about woodwork and why perhaps the female population is not as involved as the male population… Did you know that Saudi-Arabia just recently approved women to ride bicycles by themselves in certain areas? Women can't drive alone. They are often considered the lower class; but heck, the idiots in power are our allies, so, look the other way; the hypocrisy truly makes me sick. Here in the states we have this law, "CLICK IT OR TICKET". Yet I can ride my bike (motorcycle) without a helmet and the law does not apply to me; go figure.


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

> Since you posted this topic, the question is, do you have any woodworking projects you can post *Cricket*?
> 
> Personally I don t believe that there is anything a man can do that a woman can t!
> However, there is one thing a woman can do that a man can t.
> ...


Oldnovice, although I am fascinated by woodworking, I have never claimed to be a woodworker.

You can read my story here.
http://lumberjocks.com/CricketWalker/blog/40481

I am hoping to attend a Tiny House weekend workshop here in Texas in October though.
http://tinyhousecommunity.com/fair.htm


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

I kinda like the fact that the shop is MY domain and where I get my peace and quiet. Maybe just peace. Usually not quiet.


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## JRedgate (Apr 11, 2014)

There are certain things that should be left to men and woodworking is one of them. Women were made to be helpmeets for their husbands and mothers to their children.


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## sepeck (Jul 15, 2012)

Elizabeth already posted the Verizon ad link was planning on posting. I have seen that happen in real life. I have heard a 12 year old boy tell my 7 year old daughter that something wasn't for girls. Fortunately his 80 year old grandpa took him to task for that.

I will admit to whole heartedly backing KarenW on the head exploding regarding some of the garbage I have seen posted about 'women's brains', 'weaker sex', 'lack of interest'. MY 7 year old daughter is far more interested in helping daddy and making her own stuff then my son is and for an assignment last year in school, she decided she needed to build a birdhouse. So we did. I cut it out she did all the nails, drilling, screws and glue up. On mothers day my wife came out and we had fun putting together our camp kitchen in my projects page. She likes to occasionally make stuff out of wood but her focus is on her other hobbies and work right now. Also, I do more sewing then my wife… just saying.

When I worked for my dad (union plumbing shop in the 90's) he didn't put up with nonsense. Someone put up a pin up calendar in the on site job shack, he threw it away and told the crew this is my business office where people come, not your pin up gallery hang that stuff up at home where you can discuss it with your spouse. We had a female apprentice called out off the list that next year. She was about 4'6" and some of guys said that same crap about her 'upper body strength', one of our foreman took them to task about that asking if his 4'5" frame also lacked the same upper body strength. You know how he solved some things that were heavy? Got someone to help lift, same way I did with my 6'1" frame (also he could work any of us into the ground, it was depressing to a 25 year old in his 3rd year of construction experience that this old guy could bury me). One of the guys said at least he knew she'd be the first to get laid off "cause she was a girl". My dads comment said why would that be a reason? She worked twice as hard as he did (most of the journeymen were stepping up as a result), did better quality work, went to the hall to practice her welding when told that next week she would be welding, needed less supervision and asked when she needed help and frankly that guy was already on the short list for to many coffee breaks, sloppy work and having to sit and make sure he got stuff done.

You want to get woman in a field (or at least posting/more involved in Lumberjocks)? Then you want to look to creating an environment that isn't hostile towards them (and no, don't anyone say they need to have thicker skin, I find an ass is an ass regardless of whether he is talking about women or men). I was involved in an Open Source community for years (drupal.org) and initially we had to deal with a rather hostile developer audience who would say the most horrific things about the capabilities of women who spoke up. We decided that perhaps we could benefit from more woman contributors and set out to build an environment to encourage woman to join. We stepped on the rampant misogyny in our community. There were several 'manly men' who called this 'political correctness', who threatened to leave, who made demands (note: I haven't really seen a lot of this on Lumberjocks but I have seen some [in this thread for instance]). To those who wouldn't behave we showed them the door. Our community benefited tremendously from this. We got far more contributions from the new comers who joined, learned and contributed. We were far more focused on the project. The naysayers who left for good weren't missed and the ones who stayed learned about respect for human beings. In the Maker movement community they have an effort to make sure women know their involvement is wanted and I have seen at least one maker posting here who is a woman and CEO of her business.

That comment about 'Miley not being allowed in a house' too… Seriously? Look, Miley is an entertainer. She a good singer. She was in the Disney stable of child actors for years and they are under some pretty harsh restrictions about being an individual during their teen years so it's not at all shocking when they leave the contract that they explode but for all the various judgmental people out there what has she accomplished? She released well received songs and videos. It makes her money and the people she employs (yes, they work for her). It shows an attention to her craft (acting and singing is every bit a craft as woodworking and to be successful requires discipline and dedication). Are people going to go bonkers over her wrecking ball stunt? Really? An entertainer doing something outrages that gets free advertising on the news to help draw attention and sell records….? Kids these days, they were nothing like that back in "the day" were they? -cough- Mae West, Liz Taylor, Madonna, Angelina Jolie at all -cough- I mean no one followed that path to success and stardom did they? Maybe her music or that music genre at all isn't to your taste? That's fine. Maybe her promotion also isn't to your taste either. Perhaps none of those I mentioned were people any of you watched and that is fine too, but while you are looking down at her, remember right now she is a young women managing a currently successful career in the midst of your disapproval. (Side note, I listen to Rush, Within Temptation, M83, Of Monsters and Men, and Jewel while working in the shop)

I see some bloggers and posters in the wood working community (here and the wider internets) making snide comments occasionally about 'xx chromosome' or all the 'women folk' being out for the day so they can get some 'real work' done. All it does is make me is sad for their families and irritated at their utter and complete blindness to their potential as leaders. When they get called on it, the dismiss it as "they know I'm joking". Well, I don't and really, I don't think they are, I think they are just blind to the harm it causes. It's never about the straight up easy to see stuff, it's about the small, constant pick pick pick pick that is the more destructive tone.

I have a daughter. Frankly I felt this way before she was born but my challenge now is to make sure she grows up with the tools, support and strength to make choices for her own interests and hobbies regardless of the comments about her being a 'girl'.


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## lightcs1776 (Nov 14, 2013)

Sepeck, while I believe you should manage your home the way you see fit, I have decided that I will not have my kids influenced by entertainers such as Miley, and many others, both men and women. Yes, the rules may seem strict to some, but I am OK with that. I believe the influences in my kids life are very important.


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## sepeck (Jul 15, 2012)

@lightcs1776 and that's fine for you. Regardless of your moral stance about her or Disney, etc., my point was she is a successful business women and professional in her field which is entertainment. While my music tastes differ from her music, I can still admire her marketing savvy, professionalism and talent at such a young age in yet another field dominated by men.


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## lightcs1776 (Nov 14, 2013)

It's all good, Sepeck.


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

Most of the women I know that are in the handcraft trades are more into sculpting, Painting, and other handcrafted mediums. So maybe they just prefer to keep the simple things for the men.

Bill


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## sepeck (Jul 15, 2012)

Oh, I should also mention http://ana-white.com/

Lots of families making things there, lots of women posting their work and sharing things there. Perhaps it is a more welcoming environment? Perhaps it is a different approach? A lot of the posts are about how they needed something, and looked for something to fit their house/environment and were taking pride in having made it. I think a lot of their plans are made to be done with dimensioned lumber so end with a certain uniformity in may cases but there are several nice designs in there (note, I have one listed on my project page)

As a contrast., a recent blog post by Chris Schwartz where is has regrets about an old tool. Then here we have a "blonde in a blue tank top" and this "very cologned man-friend" touching his tools that he decided not to get. Evidently they were designers and it seems that repurposing tools into decorations is something to mock. Why describe them like that? Why not just 'another customer and her friend', 'another customer and her friend'? I wonder if Henry Roubo would have been described as a "very cologned man" at that time he lived in France?

Maybe he lost his opportunity to ask her about it while he was stalking her through the store in the hopes she would set his regret down. I don't know about you but strange bearded men following me around would make me nervous too.


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## KarenW (May 29, 2012)

sepeck-your daughter is one lucky little lady.
Bless you.


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## Dunshuvlin (Oct 8, 2012)

Much of what is being written in this thread is based on pure prejudice. I refer to comments written by some men.

There is a post written by "Lightweight Lady Lefty". I'm not a lady, I'm not particularly lightweight but I am a lefty (and pretty ambidextrous like most of us right-minded people living in a right-handed world).

To state that women should not work with wood, metal or any of the other traditionally 'male' materials is as illogical as stating that left-hander should face a similar ban ' because the tools won't work that way round, or some similar silly reason. I think that making clothes is more difficult than making furniture but look at how many good tailors and dressmakers there are around the world and nobody denigrates either sex for these occupations.

Ladies, stand up for yourselves and don't listen to the dinosaurs. KarenW, I suspect that you did not intend to stir up such a hornets' nest but more power to your elbow. Some people need to wake up to the fact that 'a Miss is as good as a male'!

Someone commented on strength and drill chucks. I'm not ashamed to say that I had to buy a keyed chuck for my pillar drill this year because my arthritic hands can no longer sufficiently tighten the keyless one.

BTW, my wife has no interest in woodwork but she can plaster better than I can!


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

When I'm with my wife in Joann's, I see very few men in there. Wonder why? My wife doesn't want to use the table saw and I really don't want to use the crochet hook. Could it be women and men have different interests?


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## NormG (Mar 5, 2010)

I also think the #'s are growing


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

Joseph Redgate, holy crap.. Yea, lets place those women where they belong; washing dishes and cleaning house… what a crock!


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

Back in the days of my youth model airplanes were equivalent to today's computer games for young boys. Almost every boy built, or attempted to build, a few. I built a lot more than a few and that gave me my love of building things that I still have today. My next door neighbor, a boy of my age, and I built gas powered model planes. We ran the engines in the back yard, flew gliders and small gas planes in the yard and had a lot of fun.

Fast forward to about 1994 I received a telephone call from a childhood friend I hadn't heard from in 50 years. It was a girl who was one of my neighborhood playmates from the time we were 2 years old until we all went off to college, got married and dispersed. We had a nice long talk and one of the things she said comes to mind. In our phone call she lamented that when she was young she wanted so very much to join in with me and my neighbor in building and flying model airplanes. I said we would have loved to have her join in. Why didn't she? She said "Girls just didn't do those kind of things".

This was a restriction women and girls put upon themselves. My friend Susan was one of the neighborhood gang and would have been welcomed by the boys. Sadly, Susan died about a year after this phone call.

Planeman


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## KarenW (May 29, 2012)

Dunshuvlin (love the name, btw.  - you're right, it wasn't my intention to stir up a hornets nest. I'm not a prolific poster here but I do read a lot and this question naturally caught my eye. 
Most of my adult life, beginning with shop class as a senior in high school, I've put up with the looks and the comments, the judging and head-shaking and it took a lot of years to learn to ignore it. Easier to ignore from men, not so easy when I have another woman tell me to bow down to a man's leadership, get my priorities right, that woodworking isn't something I'm suited for and that I'm causing societal chaos.

I'm not a feminist by any stretch of the imagination - when we come up out of the shop at night there's still supper to fix and laundry to fold and I'm OK with that because nobody, including Mom, makes better biscuits and gravy or smothered steak and onions than I do. He does the dishes after supper and puts the folded laundry away yet no one castigates him for those actions. Similarly, I shouldn't have to defend my chosen profession - especially to another woman.

I suppose it might raise some eyebrows to know that Wade, being retired while I'm still working, also keeps the house picked up and the bed made, he dusts and vacuums and occasionally does the grocery shopping. There are days he comes with me to the finish shop and helps out there when I have large pieces or a lot of pieces. I'll also mow and trim and take out the trash if he's busy with something else. Neither of us stand on gender assigned roles. Instead, if there's something needing done, the one with the time does it. 
It's called teamwork, getting the job done, doing your part.

It's a huge world out there-so many things to see and experience and take part in - but much easier to do when one's view of life isn't so narrow and confined.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

While cultural norms played a role historically, that hasn't been the case for over a generation. In general terms, men and women are…..........different. Hobbies are typically something we truly love to do, unlike work where $'s make many life choices for us. Simply put, in general men and women tend to pursue different hobby interests due to basic genetic differences. Certainly there are exceptions (as there are to every "rule" or "stereotype") but I'm speaking in generalities and not specifics. Women participate in my other hobbies of sport bikes and fly fishing, but just like woodworking, are far outnumbered by men. Delving into behavioral studies and gender psychology will help answer "but why"?


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## Dunshuvlin (Oct 8, 2012)

Thank you for replying to my comments KarenW. 'Dunshuvlin'? We thought we had but then we bought more gravel. I reckon I have shovelled and barrowed about 100 tons of it here over the last 15 years!

Sounds like you and Wade are just like Dr. D and me. If it needs brute force and ignorance, it's my job. Whilst I generally ignore gender assigned roles (I didn't assign them so why should I follow them?) I do tend to think that taking out the rubbish (trash) is a bit unpleasant and should be a man's job when possible. Cooking, cleaning up, general housework goes to whoever has time. Same for washing and ironing. Clearing up the kitchen is a nice way to thank whoever has taken the time and trouble to cook a good meal.

Someone posted 'There are certain things that should be left to men and woodworking is one of them. Women were made to be helpmeets for their husbands and mothers to their children'. That just proves that some people still live in the dark ages! I can's envisage much teamwork in his relationship!

All crafts should be for whoever wants to do them and hoe can anyone, male or female know what they will really enjoy and be good at without trying a few.

Ladies, if your 'other half' is being less than supportive of your hobby, remember what Lysistrata did!


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## sepeck (Jul 15, 2012)

This article seems very relevant considering some of the comments. 
http://makezine.com/magazine/make-40/where-are-the-women/

For those who claim that 'cultural norms' are historical artifacts are just closing their eyes to reality. 
Note: Interest in a hobby is in no way determined by 'genetics' whether it's woodworking or knitting but discouragement from pursuing "inappropriate interests' sure is rampant.


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

While I do not think there will ever be as many women woodworkers as men, so many are just not as interested, I do see a trend of more getting involved in this hobby than in the past. 
As for why? I think there are some women who do not even attempt something such as wood working due to the fact that, as much as some people try to deny it, there is still a habit even in this day in age of stereotyping. Some women think they can't do it because they aren't "supposed to". 
My wife tried wood working and did not like it. That's fine. I think anyone who thinks they are interested though should try it.

As for the stereotyping, I know it happens whether anyone admits it or not. I am also a victim of it. Wen most people find out that my wife works and I stay at home raising our kids, they immediately assume that I am some kind of "pansy" or that my wife "wears the pants in the family". They never for a moment consider that my health does not allow me to hold down a full time job, that I am still the leader of my household, and that I enjoy raising my boys.


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## drwoj (Feb 25, 2011)

Hi I am a women and been loving woodworking since I was a little girl. My father taught me how to take a drill apart and put it back together. So yes I also love TOOLS.i know that it was frowned upon if girls like tools they would label you as a dike. But as I get older I don't care what people think. I taught my nephews how to use tools and work wood wood I know at least 5 other women who like wood and they never even heard of lumberjocks. so I try to spread the word. And it's a good way to meet guys. 
Thank you


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## JRedgate (Apr 11, 2014)

> I can still admire her marketing savvy, professionalism and talent at such a young age…


The fact that you think that any young (or older) woman displaying her naked body and using it in absolutely disgusting ways for the entire world to see is smart marketing, professionalism and talent, makes me want to vomit and makes me weep for the future. There is nothing virtuous, smart or empowering about taking the human body and music, which God intended to be sacred, and using it to arouse the masses and turn a buck. We have enough problems with men making the world filthy; we don't need women making it worse and calling it "smart." Remember, Eve convinced Adam that eating the forbidden fruit was a good idea, and look what happened.

Women and men were designed by God and were given different roles. The sooner we can all get back to what those are and spend our lives trying to bring Glory to God within those roles, the sooner things will have the chance at getting better. If anyone has an issue of men being in leadership positions and women being helpmeets, your issue is not with me; it's with God Himself.


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## JRedgate (Apr 11, 2014)

> Whilst I generally ignore gender assigned roles (I didn t assign them so why should I follow them?) I do tend to think that taking out the rubbish (trash) is a bit unpleasant and should be a man s job when possible.


It would seem that you ignore "gender assigned roles" when it suits you, and you revert to them when there is a task that you find unpleasant. Somehow, sexism is acceptable when it favors women. Women seem to love exploring roles that have been men's roles, if they have some sort of appeal to them, but when it comes to emptying trash, shoveling excrement, disposing of dead animals on the road &c, then the disgusting tasks are better left for the men to do. Where are all of the women demanding that more women get hired as garbage collectors?


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## sepeck (Jul 15, 2012)

> I can still admire her marketing savvy, professionalism and talent at such a young age…
> 
> The fact that you think that any young (or older) woman displaying her naked body and using it in absolutely disgusting ways for the entire world to see is smart marketing, professionalism and talent, makes me want to vomit and makes me weep for the future. There is nothing virtuous, smart or empowering about taking the human body and music, which God intended to be sacred, and using it to arouse the masses and turn a buck. We have enough problems with men making the world filthy; we don t need women making it worse and calling it "smart." Remember, Eve convinced Adam that eating the forbidden fruit was a good idea, and look what happened.
> 
> ...


I reject your judgment. Those views and your condemnation (especially in this forum) are offensive to me (Matthew 6:5). lightcs1776 managed to make his disagreement known with my statements with class and elegance and no judgment. I would be more then happy to converse with him on a range of subjects in the future despite areas where we may diverge in opinion.

This is a forum on wood working and WHY there are not more woman in the field. This very attitude and response about a woman's place is part of why there is not here. IN part, this very attitude is part of the 'pick pick pick' I mentioned in my other post.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

And it's a good way to meet guys.

You bet! My daughter said to me one day a few years back that she just could not meet any nice men she liked where she worked. I told her she would have to get involved in what men liked to do. As she was a gifted athlete - she held some state swimming records and was a competitive ice skater - I offered her my white water kayak and paid for her to join the local canoe club. She began learning how to roll a kayak where the club was teaching at a lake. That was in the Fall. By Spring she was teaching kayak rolling for the club. She became a competitive kayaker and met her future husband doing it. They got married. That was fifteen years ago. They now have two children and they all kayak, ski, and enjoy the outdoors.

Planeman


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## Dunshuvlin (Oct 8, 2012)

Dear Mr. Redgate,

This topic started out as a discussion on why there are not more women in woodworking. You and a couple of other people appear to have subverted this into a plug for a rather outmoded and fundamentalist view of the Christian religion. This is a faith for which I have a great deal of respect, having been brought up in it and I still strive to live my life following its tennets.

I have not found any comments in the Bible stating that women should only stay home, look after the children and be their husbands' helpmeets.

Yes, there are differences between men and women, something that most of us enjoy. Apart from the one obvious reason, why should the possession of breasts or testicles make any difference to what a person enjoys doing or creating?

Like almost any man who loves his wife, I am proud and happy to be her 'helpmeet' (what an arcane old word) when needed.


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

Gentle reminder for all of us…

IMPORTANT: Respect For Others
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/58859


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## JRedgate (Apr 11, 2014)

> Dear Mr. Redgate,
> 
> This topic started out as a discussion on why there are not more women in woodworking. You and a couple of other people appear to have subverted this into a plug for a rather outmoded and fundamentalist view of the Christian religion. This is a faith for which I have a great deal of respect, having been brought up in it and I still strive to live my life following its tennets.
> 
> ...


I am sure that God would be interested in your opinions of which aspects of His word are "outmoded" as you say. As far as you not being able to find Biblical examples of the subject of which I am addressing, you must not be reading the same Bible that I am:

*King James Version*
Genesis 2:18
Genesis 3:16
1 Peter 3:1
1 Peter 3:5
1 Peter 3:7
Ephesians 5:22-24
1 Corinthians 14:35
Titus 2:5
1 Corinthians 11:7
1 Corinthians 11:3
1 Timothy 5:14

Tell me; which tenets of the Christian faith do you follow and which do you choose to ignore?


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

Seriously, that will be enough now.


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## PLK (Feb 11, 2014)

This is far more disgusting than any of the Pashley threads. I suggest you lock this one down too.

Paul


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## JRedgate (Apr 11, 2014)

> Seriously, that will be enough now.
> 
> - Cricket


You asked the question and you have received much response. Obviously, the answer to your question involves more than you were expecting. You seem to be uncomfortable with the responses and, by your "respect for others" link, you seem to wish to stop the conversation by insinuating that we are being disrespectful.

I am certain that you are aware of the fact that questions like the one you originally asked can cause spirited debate, or you would not have asked not to be "chewed up and spit out" as you say. Then when the spiritedness ensues, you decide when people must cease. We are all adults here and I don't believe that anyone has said anything to anyone else that grown adults cannot handle.

Strong differing opinions do not necessarily equal disrespect.

But if you wish me to address your question more directly, I will say this:

I have been working with wood for 35 years. I have been on many construction crews building houses, finishing crews that complete the inside of houses and land developing crews that move earth and pour foundations. I have built boutique musical instruments, furniture and many other things with wood. I have also worked in other industries and warehouses &c. and I have been laughed at, mocked, been in fights with groups of men, had my tires slashed and my windows broken as pranks &c. I am not alone in this; many other men have gone through the same thing that I have. We deal with it and move on and get back to work.

I have seen many women come and go, and when they go, it is usually due to them not being able to handle the environment. I have never reported a man for calling me a name or punching me (nor have they), yet I have witnessed many women file lawsuits because someone called them "honey" or "sweetheart" and gotten men fired because of it.

From what I have witnessed, men seem to roll with the punches, and women start sociopolitical lawsuits or arguments and then leave after the men they complained about were fired. Walk up to a construction site and ask some men if they have experienced what I am talking about.

When women get hired into positions that are traditionally filled by men, a large majority of the ones that I have worked with immediately begin to worry that the women will start raising issues and making complaints. They want to work like the men, but then they want to have children and then demand that they get paid for maternity leave. These may just be some of the reasons that men are not terribly enthusiastic about working with women and may be hesitant in welcoming them into the woodworking industry. For most of us, we are trying to put food on the table, not make the cover of "Rosie the riveter magazine" like the model in the photo at the top of the page. You know, the one who has hearing protection around her neck while improperly holding a cheap panel saw.

"Why is it that we don't see more woodworkers who are women?" There are plenty of them; you just might not know all of their names from the articles written about every single one of them; and many of them know the roles that they are best designed for. Why aren't there more men into needlepoint, sewing or baking? There are; they just don't shout it from the rooftops and arrange tv interviews to announce it.

Brothers are doin' it for themselves.


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## Dunshuvlin (Oct 8, 2012)

I'm quite happy to continue this discussion with you, Mr. Redgate but this forum is not the place for it.

Lumberjocks is about wood, working it, the pleasure of doing so and is a place for people to share their ideas, skills and creations with each other

If you can find a way of sending me an edress, I will respond.


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## JRedgate (Apr 11, 2014)

> I m quite happy to continue this discussion with you, Mr. Redgate but this forum is not the place for it.
> 
> Lumberjocks is about wood, working it, the pleasure of doing so and is a place for people to share their ideas, skills and creations with each other
> 
> ...


You should have thought about that before you addressed me publicly. No further contact is necessary.


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## JRedgate (Apr 11, 2014)

By the way, Cricket, my answer is sincere, so please don't chew me up and spit me out for it.


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

I've hired em'....I've fired em'. I've praised them….I've yelled at them. Probably 10 or 12 over the years.
There's two women in the shop now.

Women get no special consideration when they're hired and employed. From laborer to Journeyman(woman?)
Do the work, do it well, or get out.

First hand, front line experience has taught me that men bring in just as many, if not more problems of varying descriptions into the shop than women do.

Typically, when there are problems with having women in the shop, it's not the women that are the problem.
It's usually the 'men' and I use the term loosely, such as you Joseph Redgate along with a few others on this thread, who share the same, or similar archaic, disgusting attitude towards a women in a 'mans' world.

I'd fire your ass in a heartbeat.

Point being…It's people like YOU that are the reason there aren't more women in the workshop and job sites.


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## tyskkvinna (Mar 23, 2010)

I just wanted to come in here and say I appreciate the support from the entire community here wanting to see more women in woodworking.


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## harveysoriginals (May 1, 2014)

Actually, I think the female presence is growing quickly! There is a monthly "turn a thon" on Redstone Arsenal, Alabama where woodworkers from all over get together and turn pens for a whole day! These pens are all donated to the Freedom Pen project and sent to our deployed troops! The number of women that show up there grows monthly and there is one lady who brings young women from a high school and teaches them them to turn pens on the spot! I think it is very cool and they are creative and ask very intelligent questions! There is also a group of "older" women who show up and they can turn pens on a lathe like bandits!!!!! I do think too, that female woodworkers are quieter about it!


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

I like women.


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## diverlloyd (Apr 25, 2013)

My wife doesn't like manual labor and has never had any trade experience node has her mom or dad(who is not mechanically inclided). But she has played with the scroll saw and other tools and enjoys them on occasion. She just wants to see what is going on and how things work. I love having her in the shop or garage with me and have no problem teaching her things. She has also wanted to do a car restoration with me so if any of you know where a 23 caddy is at please let me know. I'm sure the reason why more women are not in wood working is preconsived notions on gender stereo types. The genders are the same on the whole there are big men an little women and vise versa. Also the fear of trying new things I think that has something to do with it also and that goes for both genders. Just my opinion with no scientific backing(which is usually escued by who is paying for the research).


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

I wonder what gods think about women going fishing?? Sorry Cricket!


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## KarenW (May 29, 2012)

Well….... I certainly never thought the Bible would figure into this discussion.
My only comment to that is this: I have the passion, I've learned the skills, I'm good at what I do. So if God figures into this topic in any form it must be either A.) He created me the way I am or B.) He screwed up. 
I prefer the former.

And this-*These may just be some of the reasons that men are not terribly enthusiastic about working with women and may be hesitant in welcoming them into the woodworking industry.
*
Luckily I have two workshops, one owned and operated by me, the other owned by me, operated on a partnership basis so thankfully I don't have to wait to be welcomed into anyplace by anyone.

Funny though… just last week I had to deal with a dead possum and it didn't hurt my feelings or wreck my makeup or break a nail. Now, sadly, I will admit I left the dead armadillo to Wade last year.
Shame on me.


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

I was hesitant, but decided to catch up on this thread. 
I had to wait till I stopped laughing so hard to post.

There are a few people on this thread, I won't name names, you know who you are. 
I would love for you to look my wife, my mom or grandmother and tell them what they can or should be doing; according to god or otherwise. 
They are all god fearing Christian women, but I already know what the reaction would be. 
Grandma, if she was still alive, would probably grab her best cast iron skillet. 
My mom would probably back hand you. 
My wife (luckily she isn't as bad as the other two) would probably give you a good piece of her mind. 
Maybe I'm just lucky to have always been around women (and I teach my daughter the same) who were and are strong enough women to do whatever they damned well pleased.

.

Funny thing is that I have known a few men who had this "women should know their place" attitude. 
I learned that the reason they are that way is because they NEED a woman around because they cannot cook, clean, or do any of the "womanly" things they need to do. To be fair though, some of these men are able to do these things, only they are ignorant enough to think it is not their "place" to do so. It's pathetic really. 
The irony of the situation is that these same type men, a woman may love them enough to stay around, but they usually do not possess the skills, passion, or desire to make any woman "NEED" them.

Again, I have been lucky I guess. 
I was raised by my uncle, a 23 year military veteran. He taught me to cook, clean, sew. Mostly he taught me that a man should be able to take care of himself. Then if you find a wife you marry her because you love and cherish her, not because you need a new mommy to care for you.


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## natenaaron (Jun 24, 2013)

why are there not that many men who are quilters? I had a mechanic working for me a few years ago who would work on boats all day, then go home and quilt. When he left to find year round more stable work he was quilting a blanket for his first daughter.

Could it be that many men are just not interested in the activity? Could it be that many women are just not interested in woodworking. Could it be that there are more than we know of on both sides and they just go about their business content to be their own person and have no desire to yell it from the rafters?

By the way that mechanic was a fine quilter.


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

And I done mechanic work for 13 years. 
By far, the best mechanic I've ever known though was a female. 
I think women, the ones who enjoy it, make better mechanics (and sometimes woodworkers) than most men for the pure reason that scientists (I read it somewhere) say women's brains are more detailed oriented.

One time, on a bet (and I seen this with my own eyes) that same female mechanic was blindfolded, and in three hours and a twelve pack of beer she assembled a Chevy 350 engine and we fired it up. The male that was in the challenge with her did not get past putting the rings on the pistons.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*natenaaron*, *Rosie Grier*, formerly a member of the Fearsome Foursome) of Los Angles Rams, is a very accomplished at needle point and has even written a book Rosey Grier's Needlepoint for Men in 1973.

*William*, of the studies I have read regarding *"brain wiring"* you are correct about detail oriented but also more empathetic … typically. This does not imply that a man cannot be highly detail oriented or empathetic nor does it indicate the opposite as the studies deal in generalities.


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

Novice, I apologize if I indicated that men couldn't be detailed oriented as we'll. Actually, I am very detail oriented. I think that's what made me a good mechanic, and a good woodworker. 
I was trying to establish that both men and women can do anything they set their mind to if they wish. 
I just found it funny reading the opinions of a couple of people here.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

No apologies required, we are in agreement *William!*


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## JRedgate (Apr 11, 2014)

> They are all god fearing Christian women, but I already know what the reaction would be.
> Grandma, if she was still alive, would probably grab her best cast iron skillet.
> My mom would probably back hand you.
> My wife (luckily she isn t as bad as the other two) would probably give you a good piece of her mind.
> ...


"God fearing Christian women" don't do "whatever they d*#!ed well please;" they fear God and do whatever pleases Him. And I can tell you that if your women or any other woman hit me with a skillet, fist or anything else, they would get the living tar beat out of them by my hands and learn their place. If women want to fight like men, then I will hit them like I would a man.

I never said that some women do not have the ability to do some things as well as men. What I am saying is that there are things that God does not allow them to do. Some women may have good spiritual insight, but God does not allow them to teach men or speak in church. Just because we may have the ability or desire to do something, it doesn't mean that God approves of us doing it.

This thread has become a perfect example of how women have bullied men into being scared little boys and the men don't even realize it. I have supported my position by giving examples of scripture that supports me. All any of you have done is assert your opinions with nothing to back them up. I have used the word of God, you have used feelings.

This is a godless place and I will never return here again.


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

See?
Funny.

Luckily though, I am mature enough to know not to waste my time responding in kind to such nonsense. 
Thank you for the bible lessons. 
I am deeply sorry if you feel the need to leave a woodworking group over differences in scripture interpretations. 
I haven't went to look at any of your projects yet. 
I will try to tonight when I get back to my computer. 
I think you could stick around though and enjoy the wood working related discussions.

By the way. 
I have states my opinions here regarding women in wood working, but I have not attempted to discuss my religious views in detail here. I would like to explain why. 
This is the internet. There are certain things I refused to discuss in public areas of the internet. Those things include such topics as religion, politics, and the age old ford versus Chevy debate. I am always more than happy to have these discussions via PM, but never publicly. 
This thread is a great example of why.

Thank you cricket for bringing up what I think is a good topic. 
I only wish it was possible to keep it on a mature ad intelligent level.


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

As long as it is a really big pickup truck, I don't care what name is on it. (evil grin)


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*Goodbye and good … !*


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## natenaaron (Jun 24, 2013)

> This is a godless place and I will never return here again.
> 
> - .


Godless? Really?

Old Novice, Rosie does his thing for the same reason My mechanic quilted, and I doodle and build things. Probably for the reasons most folks here, men or women, work with wood. Relaxation and creation. I was wondering why we even bother worrying about such things.


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

There is Nothing !repeat nothing ! a man can do a woman can't do better. IMHO Alistair and that includes peeing in a lemonade bottle without spilling any. LOL


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## KarenW (May 29, 2012)

*This thread has become a perfect example of how women have bullied men into being scared little boys and the men don't even realize it. *

Oh great.
First I'm branded gay by the uninformed folks from years ago.
Then I'm told I cause societal chaos.
Now I'm a bully, doing things that God does not allow me to do.

That's OK, I'm good with all that.

Please take this in the spirit it's intended









And for all the guys who have posted well thought out replies, I appreciate each one of you.


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## KarenW (May 29, 2012)

One more thing…...FORD!
(lol)


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## sepeck (Jul 15, 2012)

My truck is a mid size, but I am secure in it.


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

It is amazing how "scripture" trump normal human thinking. There are well over 13000 sects of Christianity and they all have the same "scripture". How many crimes have been and are being used around the world based on what some religion scripture? How many wars, atrocities and so on. What would be the difference between our way of living and let say Afghanistan if our country was run by religious fanatics, I tell you, nothing. It would be oppression of all women and the men who refuse to conform to their BS. I can't for a life of me see a dad tell his daughters, "I know your husband is beating you sometimes, but that's for your own good because the "scripture" said so". Scripture also said a lot more than you care to know just because we go to the Sunday school and the institution of religions tell us what the "Scriptures say" it doesn't mean you know your "scriptures"... It means you know their "scriptures" upon which they make a tone of money from the sheeple they flock and manipulate. By the way, neither Buddha, Jesus or Mohamed chose to write a single word (Exception could be Jesus "drawing on the sand with a stick). If that doesn't give you pause, I don't know what will. The scriptures have a lot more to say than a dogma people adopt based on their preferences. 
Since this is a woodworking forum, I just ran across this tree, at least 4' in diameter. It looks like a post oak:


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

> Some women may have good spiritual insight, but God does not allow them to teach men or speak in church.


 I guess god thinks as highly of your opinions as most others do. Or maybe the Church of England is going to burn in hell with the rest of us huh? I'll bring the hot dogs…
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-28300618



> This is a godless place and I will never return here again.


You are a truly disturbed…...nevermind…
Don't let the door hit you on your way out.


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

Tony_S, I like your attitude and honest opinions very much. The whole concept of god fearing people, another way said, "fearing god" just rubs me wrong. It implies that you fear your source. If that is the case, you have already missed the boat. The only reason someone would fear his source is because of what is presented as an alternative; basically, bunch of pitch-forked-tail demons that will burn you alive and torture you for ever and ever, very much like the Inquisitionist did not while ago to their opposition. They certainly were a good reflection of what fear can do to men; or perhaps what men do for love of power. So, in effect, if fear is the motivating factor, you fear the alternative not god. And we all know how people react to fear… Outside of what wear, drive and own, we all are still nothing but bunch of "civilized" animals. Fight or flight is our instinctive responses to life events. Those who exclaim that men who are sympathetic to women are bunch of manipulated pussy-whips are devoid of reasoning. If one thinks the good old days were the days to be had because men ruled the world are sick in hearts and minds. In the "good old days" men and women did whatever it took to make ends meet and that meant what ever it took. There were no divisions as to what a man or a woman was allowed to do based on what scriptures had to say. This is even true today as it was yesterday; you do what you have to do to survive and sometimes that causes roles to change.


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## cdaniels (Apr 16, 2014)

i wish my wife would get into woodworking! that'd be an outstanding way to share time


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## cdaniels (Apr 16, 2014)

hey william you wanna be my friend!


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

cdaniels, maybe ask your wife what she wish you would get into to bring you both together (maybe knitting?) and then make the compromise.


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## cdaniels (Apr 16, 2014)

spose that's a pretty good idea jinx. don't really know of any hobbies that she has other than scrapbooking though and I rarely see her doing that. seeing as how i've prolly spent a couple grand in scrapbooking items for her I'd like to see it used more.


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

cdaniels, I am sorry.


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## Momcanfixit (Sep 19, 2012)

Wow, how did I miss this thread for so long?

I tend to be long winded, so I'll sum it up before I start rambling: folks is folks, be they male or female.

The nature/nurture debate has gone on for a very long time, and I doubt I can contribute much to it, but I can tell you my story and add my two cents.

I have many female friends. Some of them say that they'd like to try woodworking, but they've never tried it and have turned down my invitations to show them. It's their choice. The only way I think gender plays into it is that it is less common for girls to have the opportunity to try woodworking when they are younger.

None of the men in my life seem interested in learning how to make a good lard pie crust and I'm okay with that. My son is interested in tools, fixing things and taking them apart. My daughter hides if she even thinks I might need help in the shop. It's just the way they are. I love to bake and I'm proficient at many of the more 'traditional' female household tasks (I choke trying to even type that) so I tend to do those as well.

Personally I find gender biases amusing when it comes to woodworking and tools. 
In the last 4 years, here's a sample of some of the things I've heard:

-Customer service for Busy Bee kept referring to my bandsaw as my husband's. (Never mentioned whether I was married or not)
-Genius in a waiting room saw me reading Wood magazine, and gave me some great advice "Keep your hand out of the saw blade". Wow. Life-altering.
-Some of my husband's male co-workers have commented that I must wear the pants in the family. I do have safety concerns about wearing a skirt around power tools, so in a way they are right.
-When I bought my Ridgid planer, I was told that my husband was a lucky man. I agreed, but then clarified that the tool was for ME.

I also work in a profession that is not represented statistically by a lot of women. Why? Women seem to be less interested. I don't think it's anything that needs to be 'fixed'. The women I do work with are the same as the men I work with.
Some are good at their jobs, some are not.
Some are royal pains in the neck, some are not.
Some have more hairspray than common sense.
Some are socially inappropriate, or act in a way that I won't tolerate.
Some are genuine, kind, hardworking and decent.

Same as everyone here.

My signature line says it all. I don't want to buy the pink hammer. Unless of course it gets great reviews and is a fabulous hammer. No, even then. I don't like pink. And don't get me started on Barbie.


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

The hair spray… Thanks for the reminder… I went to visit my daughter's collage dorm… First thing was the yelling, "Man in the house" and just bout everyone's respond was, "so what??".. Then I asked, "what is that smell?".. Both my kids replied, "hair spray". It was a Friday. I said, "hope no one smoke in this dorm or there will be a huge explosion."


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

Off topic, I didn't see this until I had worked through the regular topics, and started in on the "off" stuff. You really know how to pick them, Cricket! I will say there are some real stone-age knuckle-draggers in here. That gender assignment attitude is truly pathetic. Pulling the bible out to defend a point is one of the most pathetic ploys ever. I met my wife in a Modern Physics class back in 1980. Nothing like a real smart woman! Good for the women on here and elsewhere who aren't afraid to express themselves in whatever medium they desire. My wife quilts (wins ribbons for them, they are really exceptional, not just in my eyes), but doesn't like wood working. That's fine. She also does stained glass (and hasn't been burned by the soldering iron) and leather work.

Best story- my wife built a scanning interferometer for the solar observatory at our alma mater. My ex-brother-in-law was showing her a pirate TV box, and she said "I could build that". Seriously, there wasn't that much in the way of electronics in it, way less than what she had already done. He jerked it back and said, "No you can't!". We both still laugh about it. He just couldn't accept that a woman could do something like that…when he couldn't.

I would really like to see more women in woodworking. They bring a lot of artistic touches to what is usually a pretty utilitarian (like my work) medium. I'm not going to name names, since I'll be sure to leave out someone who deserves mention. You all know who they are.

Edit to add- I graduated high school in 1970, and there was one girl in wood shop, a couple of years younger than I. I recall that she did nice work, and never once got injured. I knew guys who didn't care for the rules of safety; the worst case was kid who ran a plywood sanding block through the jointer, along with 8 of his digits. I was a junior at the time, going into my senior year. One graduating senior and I were the only two allowed to use the jointer after that, and you can rest assured I was careful!


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

They do help bring a good balance between severely practical and froo-froo.


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## OldWrangler (Jan 13, 2014)

My take on this after some thought is that women are far more social beings and being with other women either at coffee klatches, church or working they have to have that interaction and communicational intercourse. Men on the other hand are basically solitary folks and are perfectly happy spending the entire day tinkering in a shop or garage without the "chin music". I am so bad, I don't even listen to the radio just the whirr of shop machinery. And I hunt alone and fish alone. Do you think I should shower more often, maybe I'm driving them away?


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

I camp alone, so I have a feeling it isn't gender related.

I think maybe we all just have our own likes and dislikes…


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## KarenW (May 29, 2012)

I can do without "chin music" and coffee klatches and hen parties and girls night out. 
But I do have bluegrass playing on the radio in the shop.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*+1 Sandra*


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## Dunshuvlin (Oct 8, 2012)

Being on a different continent to most of the contributors to this thread, I have just woken up and am catching up on about 15 posts.

Mr. Jinx, I am impressed by your tree picture. It's a good job that you ran across it and did not run into it, especially if you were driving Cricket's very large Ford pick up.☺ Of course, if one of the other (recently departed from this thread) contributors had been driving his pick up…....☻(Please note: This smiley denotes black humour and does not relate to the colour of the vehicle or anything else!)

Going even further off topic: as an ignorant non-American, I don't really know why they are called pick ups! Can anyone enlighten me? Logic says it is because you can pick things up from places with them. The most interesting story I have heard is that they were shipped to a local depot in several crates, a farmer 'picked them up', took them back to the farm and then completed the assembly. I'm sure that someone out there knows the definitive answer.

Getting back on the 'off topic', I went to evening classes for two years, the first year taking a course in regional British cookery and the second one, international cookery. I was the only man in either class! What a surprise. Gender assignments, you ask. Yes, I was asked to sharpen all the knives and was excluded from the washing up! This was in the late 1960s. O.K. you've worked it out - I'm old in body (especially the knees) but young(ish) in heart and spirit and can lose 20 years when I find a piece of wood that talks to me and says, "put me in your lathe and turn me".

Cricket, if you ever give up camping alone and want a camp cook, let me know. Of course we will need to get my wife's permission and I can no longer hike too far!!!!!!!!!☺☺☺

A day without a laugh is a day wasted!


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## Dunshuvlin (Oct 8, 2012)

If you want bluegrass over here you have to buy the CD or listen to an American station over the internet. I must agree that it is good music to have when working but so is dixieland jazz and a bit of Mozart can be soothing when doing a big glue up single handed!


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## cdaniels (Apr 16, 2014)

so heavy metal is not ideal soothing music? jk I don't listen to the stuff. only music i listen to is country


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## Dunshuvlin (Oct 8, 2012)

Maybe HM for blacksmiths? Can't stand it but I like C&W and admit to having quite a few CDs of it.


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

I like to listen to Santana, but this one can be distracting and dangerous in the shop:


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## sepeck (Jul 15, 2012)

I may have to part company on the bluegrass thing. Screeching and wailing is all I hear in half that music. If they did it without the singing it'd be ok.


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## natenaaron (Jun 24, 2013)

> One more thing…...FORD!
> (lol)
> 
> - KarenW


*F*ound
*O*n
*R*oad
*D*ead
:^D))))))


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## Elizabeth (Oct 17, 2009)

natenaaron wrote:



> why are there not that many men who are quilters?


I'd wager for the same reasons that there are not that many women who are woodworkers:

1) lack of role models
2) being told repeatedly that it is an activity for the opposite sex

In this thread alone, how many times have knitting, quilting and cooking been cited as things that women do more than men?

Knitting, for example: Two women (including me) have stated it in their interests. One man used it as the feminine side in a "whether woodworking or knitting" statement. Another said women he knows "prefer to knit". Another cited knitting as a daughter's interest. One person suggested to another that he take up knitting if his wife enjoys it, as a thing to do together. Turned out the wife doesn't knit. But it's still the "thing" that people think of to represent womanly pastimes.

I was going to do a similar analysis of the mentions of quilting and cooking/baking in this thread, but daycare just called and my son is sick. My husband just started a new job so I need to go take my son home. And before anyone (who has recently left the thread!) suggests that it is my womanly duty to mind the little ones, let me just point out that my husband recently rejoined the workforce after being a stay at home dad for nearly two years!


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## Dunshuvlin (Oct 8, 2012)

Don't know if anyone over there knows but GM's brand in the UK is Vauxhall. We used to say, "Rides all the way there but vaux all the way back"!

Does that put GM level with Ford?

No!!!! I shouldn't have written this! Here comes a new off topic, off topic! What have cars got to do with woodwork and which sex does it? Not a lot really! Oh well, just the ramblings of a not so young man.


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

Any vehicle that cost as much a house used to 20 years ago is an crazy divestment. The only thing I can say about Ford is, at least they didn't take bail-out money.


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## sepeck (Jul 15, 2012)

IN support of Elizabeth and role models.

My wife knits (admittedly she works at a knitting store, teaches knitting thus gets paid to do it and also provides a range of teaching and repair/help services around knitting and some other fiber arts). My wife has also came out to the shop and helped me build things, she likes to stain and finish stuff as well. My daughter has recently demanded a knitting project which she intermittently works on with the attention span of a 7 year old. My daughter also draws, paints, and demands time in the shop building her own things and helping daddy. That Verizon commercial I mentioned way earlier in the thread is still relevant. Oh, my wife does better patterns then I do but I tend to do more sewing if it needs to be done.

AS to trucks, really the most important thing is what they are filled with and since I have a picture 
I had a Dodge, now I have a Toyota


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

Elizabeth, I have been a stay at home dad for about eleven years now due to health issues. 
My wife works and I take care of the kids. 
I really wish I could return to the work force. 
It was a lot less stressful.

As for the ford versus Chevy debate,
I've owned both and had good luck with both. 
Just don't buy a dodge.


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## Dunshuvlin (Oct 8, 2012)

Elizabeth, you were doing your human duty. Everyone has a duty to look out for children, irrespective of their gender. I suspect that 'he who has just left the thread' would leave it to someone else! Isn't it interesting that he posted no pictures of workshop or projects?


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## Dunshuvlin (Oct 8, 2012)

Hi William,

Is that because they are a bit dodgy? Maybe this doesn't translate too well but in EE 'dodgy' is slang for not very good.


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

I done mechanic work for 13 years. 
I loved my job when I was able to do it. 
Anyway, about dodges. 
I'm my opinion and personal experience, dodge makes some of the best engines around, but every single one I've ever had the displeasure of messing with eventually developed electrical problems. 
Since I haven't touched one in years, maybe the newer ones were better. The old ones though, the best thing I felt you could do to a dodge was to snatch all the wiring out an start from scratch.


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

Since we're way off topic though, my favorite jokes as to that the letters of cars mean:

FORD 
found on road dead

CHEVROLET
cracked head every valve rattling oil leak every time

DODGE
dad's old dead garage experiment


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

> CHEVROLET
> cracked head every valve rattling oil leak every time
> 
> - William


I love it! My brother-in-law worked for GM and convinced us to take advantage of his employee discount to buy a 2002 Impala. As my mechanic handed me the bill for replacing the head gasket at 50K, he said, "Here's your employee discount!"


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

Men and women are different from one and the other , both can be masters of this craft that's a fact .and i wouldn't be here posting if not for them both .


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*William*, you forgot a some:

*GMC*
Gods Mechanical Curse

*Fiat*
Fix it again Tony

*Ford* (alternative)
Fix or repair daily


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## Dunshuvlin (Oct 8, 2012)

I've tried to think of a good car acronym but have failed! Today I mounted a very heavy sun awning on my porch. The instructions said this was a three person job. The two friends did not turn up! A minimum of brute force, a length of rope, some applied physics and a tiny bit of guidance from my wife (no, not that; she guided one end into the bracket as I took the weight and fitted the other end - 'thanks love') got the job done.

Now I'm knackered (good old English work for really tired and worn out - originally referred to cart horses that had reached the end of their working lives) physically and mentally so my brain is on a go slow.

I can't post this one as a project as it was all metal fabrication for the brackets, cutting drilling and welding and then a few nuts and bolts.

I'm for bed and look forward to some more reading in the morning.


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## KarenW (May 29, 2012)

*I'd wager for the same reasons that there are not that many women who are woodworkers:

1) lack of role models
2) being told repeatedly that it is an activity for the opposite sex*
I'd absolutely agree with this. Those exposed to activities and not discouraged from them may or may not engage in those activities, depending on whether or not they have an interest.
I don't think it has to do with brain wiring or hormones or God or anything other than exposure, opportunity and interest.

As for the age old question of Ford v Chevy-I've had both and can honestly say my Fords have lasted longer with fewer repairs and while I prefer to drive a 3/4 ton I usually can afford a half ton. It's that old champagne taste/beer budget thing. 

I'm off to the home shop. 
Wade came home with a load of rough cypress and I hear the planer callin' my name.
(well, maybe it's Wade callin' my name instead. Time for the hearing protection. lol)


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

Ok novice.

GMC
gotta mechanic coming
Good mechanic's Cadillac

FORD
first on race day
F'd over rebuilt dodge

They get worse from there. 
I used to know a couple hundred of these. 
My memory just ain't what it used to be though.


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## BigRedKnothead (Dec 21, 2012)

Well this thread has had it's twists and turns;-)

Like most issues, there's no one simple answer. There's certainly some cultural reasons. It's a shame girls weren't able to be in shop class back in the day. I was in HS in the late 90's and a few girls in shop class. They were all very capable.

It's interesting, I have a degree in Biblical Studies, and I've never given a second thought as to whether woodcraft is a suitable hobby or profession for women. Ya, I'm a big, strong dude, but that doesn't help me much in woodworking. I'd give that up for more patience and finesse. Perhaps even a better eye for design…..often women excel at these traits.

Anyway, the times must be changin'. My daughters are much more interested in woodworking than my son. Of course I'm not going to push them into the craft, but I will be delighted if they join me.

We have a lot of fun in my shop those girls and I;-)


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

My HS Home Ec teacher, Ms. Daily, had a reputation for being unfriendly. I think she didn't like most people but for whatever reason she liked me. So she gave me a year long pass out of studyhall and spend that period as her "official taste tester". It was the closest I'll ever get to being a king, having a classroom of teenage girls cooking and catering, each trying to gain favor by making my favorite things to eat.

Anyway, my real point is that shop (industrial arts) and home economics were mandatory for both boys and girls in jr. high, but not in h.s. At that point it was all girls in home ec. and all boys in shop class with the exception of mechanical drawing, we had two girls in that class.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*Rick*, sounds like the same reason I took some nursing prep classes … a room full of girls and free first aid!

As far as nursing goes, there is another profession that was once only for women but now there are more and more male nurses. My wife went to nursing schoo in the '60'sl and there were NO men in the entire school at that time, upper or lower classes included.

Males in nursing professiion
"male registered nurses has more than tripled since 1970, from 2.7 percent to 9.6 percent, and the proportion of male licensed practical and licensed vocational nurses has more than doubled from 3.9 percent to 8.1 percent."

*As this data points out females in woodworking seems to have the complentary issue as male nurses!*


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Good point oldnovice. Things do change with time. I was reading a Stamford, CT history book researching my ancestors who traded a few pecks of corn for the land to establish that city in 1641. One of the more interesting incidents were 2 boys brought before the magistrate for running the streets and throwing rocks in the pond on the Sabbath. Just as we no longer demand such strict obedience, I suspect female WWers and male nurses will claim their fair share of their chosen trades at some point in the future.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

Women woodworkers that posted on this forum, please take a look at and put in your 2¢ worth because *"women just don't understand"* getting excited about a new tool!

I just thought it was kind of interesting to see that in a post about a new too on this site with all the women wood workers here!


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## Elizabeth (Oct 17, 2009)

Pfft. The last two power tools to enter our house were (and are!) all mine - an electric wood chipper and a 4 stroke rototiller! New toys are great fun. In that thread, it'd be more accurate to say: "non-woodworkers just don't understand"!


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## Blackcatbone (Sep 14, 2014)

I'm reviving this as I'm new here but figured I'd put my two cents worth in, seein's how I have girl parts -n- stuff. I think a big part of it is societal, having certain expectations for women/girls, so the opportunities to learn are few, but also, most women have children, or expect to/are expected to, and tend to be the primary caregivers, and woodshops are dangerous places for curious children. That's a lot working against women.

I've been a tomboy all my life but didn't really have the opportunity to immerse myself until I met my current husband, who's a carpenter. He built our house and I jumped in where I could and learned a lot. I like to garden as well and decided I was going to landscape the front of the house and proceeded to dig out walkways, unload tons (literally) of soil, compost, gravel, mulch and many, many rocks which made him realize that if I set my mind to something there wasn't much that would stop me. When that was done I turned to refinishing furniture.

At first it was painting because that's what I knew. I started getting better and a friend who owns a vintage furniture/decor shop asked me if I'd be interested in being a vendor (selling) there. At first I didn't want to because I didn't want it to feel like work. I have a day job already and this makes me happy, but she persisted and I gave in and that took off like a rocket. I rework A LOT of stuff, not just wood, anything really, but it's wood that I love. I am only dipping my toes into actually building things at this point. I do really enjoy rehabbing a piece of furniture that most people would look at and think was toast, but I get to bring it back to life or reimagining things. I also enjoy the challenge of rehabbing something that shouldn't be fixable. Just this weekend I took a vintage cardboard storage barrel, that looked like it had decades or moisture slopped on it and now you'd never know. I'll completely rewire/redo lamps and light fixtures, have even made lamps out of concrete, paint and repair vinyl furniture, repair ceramics, metal (I'm currently redoing a metal three tiered cart and small table which I'm turning into a childrens dining set) and work with corian as well. A little bit of everything.


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## MadJester (Sep 30, 2011)

I've been a woodworker for about 25 years…I'm constantly running up against people that think there are no female woodworkers….or that I couldn't possibly know what the heck I'm doing…I actually had a guy come in my store one time and proceeded to tell me something that was totally wrong (I think we can all agree that glue does not stick to glue…he didn't seem to know this simple fact) and became quite indignant that I was telling him differently…I asked him to leave…I just couldn't listen to another minute of it…

As to why more women don't do it? Not really sure…I just found a love for it at an early age, left it for many years mostly because it was not encouraged…I even tried to get into the woodshop class in high school, but the teacher didn't want girls in the class (I think they made him take one in, and he figured he had his quota…). I even tried going to trade school, and was shot down yet again…when you're young, and are not allowed to make your own decisions, it can be rough. For some reason lately, I've seen a lot of women who still won't lift things for themselves (and they are perfectly able to do so…I'm not referring to those that actually can't do it…)...they seem to have the mentality that if there is a guy around, then that is what they are for, so why break a nail…..(I've never worried about that..keep 'em short…haven't broken one since….).

There are so many stereotypes out there as to what is expected of a woman, I think it can be hard to break….and it's not always the easiest way to make a living…but I have seen more women since the advent of the internet…it's a wonderful thing to know that there are others out there making beautiful things with wood. It really has helped connect and inform a lot of people, even if it is a terribly corruptible media.


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## MadJester (Sep 30, 2011)

Oh…and if we're a bit off topic, I listen to alternative rock when working in the shop, and my newest tool is a Dewalt 611 router (with the plunge base…)...LOL…yeah…I'm pretty damned excited about that one!! (And I drive a Ford…had two pickups in the past but I'm stuck with a Taurus X right now…POS, but one must get by as one can…I wouldn't own a Chevy again if you paid me…last one was the Astro Van…yikes….what a heap!)


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## MadJester (Sep 30, 2011)

Ok…wow…I was just reading through the back posts on this thread….seriously? There are still people out there that think that way? This is why more women should be doing woodworking…why more men need to take up needlepoint…it doesn't matter! There are so many more important things out there to worry about than whether or not someone else, *that you don't even know* is doing in the privacy of their own workshop….geeze…I thought we had entered the 21st century a few years back…disgusting…but I'm thankful for those that lend their support…


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

> I wouldn t own a Chevy again if you paid me…last one was the Astro Van…yikes….what a heap!)
> 
> - MadJester


You need a Chevy TRUCK. 
Just joking. 
I apologize for the joke. I done mechanic work for 13 years before an injury made me a stay at home dad. I always have fun with the ford vs. Chevy debate. All of them depend on a number of factors including make, model and previous preventive maintenance. 
Just never buy a dodge.


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## mudflap4869 (May 28, 2014)

I have been working with wood my entire life. My grandfather was a woodworker who could build just about anything you needed. No electric, just hand tools. I peeled more bark than I care to remember and wore my arms out on a crosscut saw. I still use a froe and maul on a regular basis. acouple of years ago my wife developed an intrest in woodworking. She was heavily into photography at the time. I was building a new shop, she pouted until i set up a small studio in part of it. I was building a cabinet and she began to watch me work. She happened to open a book about cabinet making that I had laying on a table. After the first few pages she knew all about cabinet making, and began to point out all the *wrong* things that I was doing. I MADE A BAD MISTAKE! I cleared off a table on the other side of the shop, put the wood on it and said. "If you know so damn much more than I do, make your own damn cabinet." *SHE DID!* She never took one picture with all tha photo equiptment I had bought for her unfinished studio. It is now HER paint room. She is a world class wood hoarder, addicted to hand planes and hand saws. Just yesterday I had to by a new chuck for the lathe. I am searching for parts for the shopsmith, which thank goodness she is terrorized by for the moment. I built her her own work table, but takes over mine most of the time because she is a slob on her own. She is a super perfectionist and turns out higher quality work than I could ever hope for even after almost 60 years practice.


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## Blackcatbone (Sep 14, 2014)

> Just never buy a dodge.
> 
> - William


Uh-oh, good thing my husband doesn't read this. I REALLY want this truck, even though it's a bit younger than I like. http://www.rustfreeclassics.com/Ford/78F150SWB_Yellow.htm


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

I think there is both long running "society roles" but there is no shortage of women in Art, and sculpture… that is spreading to woodworking.

I look at a recent summer course at the Marc Adams School of Woodworking in Indiana.
Class taught By David Orth, on incorporating steel and Bronze into your woodworking - which included teaching welding. 
No argument that Woodworking is VERY VERY male dominated.. however there is cause to celebrate as well:

I think the photos show a pretty healthy mix of women but at the interface of other artistic endeavors.
Of course there are many instructors there that are women, Nancy Hiller (hiller designs) teaches cabinetry, Jennifer Shirley teaches turning, as does Betty Scarpino, and more..


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## MadJester (Sep 30, 2011)

I really think that it's the few that knock down those that may be hopeful….if I hadn't had so many people telling me that I couldn't do it, I might have started my woodworking career much sooner, and gotten more of a structured education out of it also. It was a biased teacher saying no, then a guidance counselor, then my parents…they probably all had a similar thought in mind…that's not what girls 'do'. It's all a load of crap. While I may be proud of the way that I have either had to teach myself, or have been lucky enough to have had some great people to work with in the past to get me where I am today, a head start from an actual trade school would have been awesome…sometimes I think I just stick with it to prove that I can do it…but I do love what I do…and no William…I don't think I'll be buying a Dodge anytime soon!!


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

My wife has a very active interest in what I do, admires my work and encourages me, although does not actively participate herself.

Not sure of the reason why possibly busy doing "other "things and is content doing so.

There is no doubt that if her interests changed she would participate.
I can use a sewing machine and and a clothes iron but they do not have the same atraction.

So I would say its priorites in life driving the situation.

Have a look at the Oak hill sawmill on utube its a family run business and everyone particapates.

I remember my son had a female electrician apprentice at one time and no doubt they are a minority

My neighbours (two girls) are data installers.

There was plenty of females drive lathes and working in Explosives factories during WWII.

So I guess its just a matter or priorities at the time, and nothing more.

P.S. And Cricket if that friend of yours you have posted a picture of wants to come work with me she is welcome anytime !!....and I bet my wife will be there in a flash too!!


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## shaz (Jul 18, 2011)

I got into woodworking a few years back. I didn't have any exposure towards it except that my grandmother owned a furniture shop. She got the carpenters to the work she wanted, but she didn't do it herself. No exposure what so ever in school as I went to an all girls convent.
I started with wanting to make a clock and then gradually I collected tools when I found sanding by hand and cutting with a handsaw too tiring. 
"Karenw" said, I get loads of questions and strange looks when I ask for things in the hardware. Sending my husband is useless as he has absolutely no interest in woodworking, but he he has no problem with my crafts as long as I get my priority right and do my motherly and wifely duty on time . 
In fact he supports me and provided me with my workspace and is often happy with my things. He is actually my quality control man ;-)

I am considered eccentric cause I do woodwork. In my children's school I'm sometimes called 'The Carpenter' perhaps cause I'm the only female they know who does woodwork! lol. My mom jokingly says I'm her son  ( I come from a family of 3 girls!)
Anyway, the principal asked if I would like to volunteer to do some projects with the kids and I happily told her I would love to.
In teaching the kids I found that the boys were all for it. The girls were excited to to try it out but some gave up when there was some muscle work involved. No, we did not use power tools as they were kind of small.

I think here in my country the big downside is there is no cheap power tools freely available. Also 
like Karen said girls are not exposed to woodwork at all so they have no idea if they like it or not.


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## MadJester (Sep 30, 2011)

I think the thing of it is to stop listening to the negative people that try to steer you away from what you want to do…and not letting those people affect your life…..I've been fortunate to have found some very encouraging people along the way…and they are sometimes quite surprised at what a small woman (I'm only about 5' 4"...and hovering around 125 pounds…) can actually do…they always look a bit skeptical at first, but I soon show them what can be done when I set my mind to something…

I was helping a friend out the other day when he was repairing a kitchen floor…he was giving me measurements and I was cutting boards on the chop saw…we got back to his place and he was telling his wife how nice it was to work with someone that knows how to use tools…it wasn't just that he is a good friend and trying to make me feel better…I know him too well for that…and it's always great working on projects with him, because I learn a lot about the building side of things that I don't normally have the opportunity to get my hands on….but having a supportive group of people can make all the difference in the world….

But it's also about knowing your limitations…had a friend drop off some lumber a few weeks ago and he asked if the 10' lengths were good or if I wanted him to cut them down for me…I absentmindedly told him to leave them at that length….I got them cut down, but they were heavy…LOL….so now I just need to remember not to go crazy on the lengths!


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## purplerodriguez (Feb 16, 2020)

We are out there… I do my own projects next to many talented women woodworkers. I guess if you don't see us on youtube, people assume we don't exist


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Stereo typing may be part of it, but I believe it's far from all of it.

When I was young and into my fifties, I had that Dick Clark thing going. I'd go to arts and craft shows clean shaven and would get all but patted on the head. I'd go to the same show the next year beared up and and would be treated far more different than when clean shaven. Came back the next year sans the bear and I was a kid again. I was, probably, about twenty-six (so, yeah, a kid, but one back from across the Nam era ponds).

I think we could, just as easily, as why very few men are interested in dress design, interior decorating [other than man caves with automatic transmissions for sinks] and so on. Of course, there would be a lot of typing there too.

In the end, I think it boils down to interest. For example, I tried to get my daughter interested in painting and such. Like I pointed out to her, she could be making decent bucks in just a few years, and would have the advantage of being handed what she needed to get off the ground. She sells furniture.

She did say she would like to do woodwork. Of course, if that were true, she'd be working on altering her life to allow her to, and would have a lot of jumping off toys. She doesn't do woodwork either.

In the end, its, I suspect, the same reason we saw only a few female engineers (electronics, in my world) - interest.

Meanwhile, as to how someone was treated in school shop class, there are just bad teachers period. Mine didn't have the time of day for all but his pet senior types. My only project sat on display for a few decades with a sign that said "If you've done this, you failed." Said another way, I didn't get a lot of help. That aside, the irony is, my shop is far superior to what my high school had, and things I've produced decades after pale what came out of that shop.

From my first hand experience [with myself, of course], I can say women are welcome. Just like they are at my turning club. Of course, that may be out of some warped need to watch other people become addicted to sawdust (like closet pushers), and to watch others fall to the tool vortex. The evil that makes us go there is softened by that most of us love see other's work and, unless they step forward to claim it, we don't know if it was a female or male hand that build the fine work we appreciate.


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