# Starting a small wooden toy business



## Skiedra

Hey all,

I have an idea to start a small wooden toy side business.

Power tools I have atm: 
1) belt+disk sander
2) vertical drill
3) table saw
4) scrollsaw
5) planner 
6) router with a custom (woodgears.ca) routing table on the way.
7) jigsaw
8) circural and this other similar saw

Seriously considering Sorotec's Stepcraft 600 CNC.

Lacking tools:
1) Bandsaw
2) More clamps

At my location, I have this wood available: pine, ash, oak, spruce, birch, linden, some maple. Also, baltic birch plywood.

My shop is small, around 3×4 meters (10×12 foot)

Any advise on how to proceed? Much appreciated.


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## rhett

There were some regulations put into place a few years ago, regarding the selling of wooden toys to children, mostly has to do with finishes. Check that out FIRST.

The other piece of advice I will offer is this. Do not finance or lease equipment under the premise that "work will come if I have the tool". Work your a$$ of with what you have and stay free from overhead for as long as possible.


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## Loco

What country ? In the US teams of unemployable lawyers await an accident involving toys. It's really, really big business !


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## Skiedra

Loco, I'm in eastern Europe and would aim towards eastern/central European markets.

Rhett, I plan on untreated toys, or linseed oil & beeswaxing them


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## jerrells

I started a scroll saw hobby business about four years ago. I have basically the same equipment. I used craft shows, Facebook, my web site, friends to market my business. It has taken about 4 years for me to start getting a reasonable flow of income (which I do not really need as I am retired). Find good craft shows with lots of traffic. Find ways to get your name out there. I give away a number of items and some of the reason is marketing my name. Find someone in your country in a similar business that will share information.

Just my thoughts


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## Finn

I have made and sold wooden toys here in Texas. The new regulations pertaining to toys is mostly about finish but you still have to submit any toys, even with no finish, just to show that there actually is no finish…... I was paying about $850 a year for liability insurance. That is a lot of $5 toys!... Toys sell very well and are easy to mass produce with simple tools but the risk is too great for me so I stopped making them.


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## helluvawreck

I would talk to your accountant about setting it up under an LLC and you definitely will need some liability insurance.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## Danpaddles

I've made a number of toys over the years, never give a thought to liability. But then, this is the first year I am selling stuff. Before, it was all just for gifts.

I wonder what the liability is if I go back to just giving away a few stand up puzzles, and stop selling?

And- what the heck will I do with a box full of puzzles that did not sell at the last show? Just give them away, I guess.


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## Skiedra

Great advice, everyone, thank you.
Regarding CNC and going over to "expensive" tools, my understanding is that CNC would take away most of the cutting and some shaping. Leaving sanding, finishing and assembly.


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## quvia

I make a lot of toys for family and friends and am proud to say I never put anything sharp in the toys. All glue with the idea that nothing will come off that a child can swallow. People really like this for there children.


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## Skiedra

quvia, do you plan on posting any of the toys in your projects section?


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## shipwright

If you have drill press (you mentioned "vertical drill"), then a simple overhead pin router like this one would help cut repeatable parts.
You can make one with what you have in a couple of hours.


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## quvia

I will collect some toys and post them this evening. Thanks for your interest.


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## Skiedra

shipwright, great idea, I will try it out.


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## matts_dad

I 'toyed' with this sort of idea when I first retired, But a couple of things bothered me when I dug into the liability issue on-line:

1 - As Jim Finn said "I was paying about $850 a year for liability insurance. That is a lot of $5 toys!... " 
2 - Liability insurance should be carried as long as your toys are in use. Even if you decide to stop the business after a couple of years your toys may still be in use and therefore you still may be liable.
3 - If you both design and build your toys you could be liable for either an inherently 'dangerous' design or a faulty build.

As a simple unforeseen example - I once made a good sized wooden coal car toy box for Chris, a child of some friends. It was a up-sized replica of one of his plastic train cars. I painted the body with the same bright orange as on plastic car, and used his initials and birth date for the car number. Chris's grandfather donated 4 lawn mower wheels. We painted the wheel hubs along with mounting hardware a nice shiny black. Come to find out, years later, that Chris would push his two younger siblings down the street in the thing! They had a great time, but I am just as glad that the wheeled toy box I put so much time into, finally wore out.

Perhaps I am being a bit paranoid, and I certainly don't want be a bah, humbug Grinch. So, if you know a lawyer whose judgement you respect, I assume that he could give you a more realistic perspective. The whole legal issue seemed to take the fun out of the idea for me, so I just make freebies for the grand-kids, friends and other relatives.

If you or someone else in 'lumberjock' land has some better input about the 'liability' issues, it might be useful to a number of folks here to start a thread on this topic. Take care -


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## Puzzleman

I make children's toys and puzzles for a living. I have been doing this for over 10 years.

Concerning the liability of finishes or the CPSIA (Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act). This came around because of the lead in paint from China situation from several years ago. These rules only apply to any company or individual having gross ales of $1,000,000 or more. I doubt many people on here have that amount of sales in toys.

Concerning product liability. The cost of liability insurance needs to figured into the costs of the products. The reality of life is that there is always the possibility of being sued for things that are beyond our control. Insurance costs are just a part of doing business and need to be treated as any other cost of doing business. Don't think that this only applies to toys. How about someone who makes a chair, the customer uses it for a step stool, one of the rungs break as they use it as a step to get to the seat of the stool to stand on and they fall down and crack their head on the side of the fireplace hearth. You need to have liability insurance for whatever you are making as there are people doing inappropriate things everywhere and expecting to get paid for their mistakes.

You can put disclaimers on your products but that doesn't always help. Companies have been sued over disclaimers that were violated and someone got hurt. The customer's point was that the wording was vague and was not easily visible. The person didn't win but the lawyers got paid.

Concerning making $5 toys and paying insurance on top of that. If your margins are so tight that you can't afford the insurance, you need to rethink your pricing. If the markets that you sell in won't support anything more than $5 toys, change markets to ones that will.


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## Edwardnorton

As a retired owner/operator of 3 business's (2 small and 1 corp.) I would offer this to you.

Do not get into debt with the "build it and they will come" attitude. You can build a few small projects and or a couple of major ones if desired to display via flyers for local promotion and to list on the internet. Don't go crazy investing in having a large inventory though, you can put "allow 2 to 3 weeks for delivery" on your listing which would give you more than enough time to build the item after a purchase.

Insurance? I won't get into that here but talk to your local companies regarding this and then shop around the internet (for pricing) with some knowledge about it in your mind.

Prepare a PDF catalog to send to family/friends via email. You can also use this PDF file for downloading via a website. PDF files are easy to prepare with Microsoft Office 2007 through 2013 as well as other software that is free or cheap out there on the internet! People love seeing products while offline via a catalog on their computers, tablets and phones.

Set up a simple and clean website and send links to your family and friends. By a clean website I mean keep it free of ads and keep it simple to navigate by those that visit. Websites today are easy to build and there are 100's of hosts that will let you park it on their sites for free.

Social media, social media, social media! It is proven that this is one of the fastest and most cost effective way to advertise your website! Did I mention SOCIAL MEDIA?!

As far as finishes on your toys is concerned, if it were me I would not use any type of finishing other than those that one uses on food related crafts such as cutting boards, rolling pins, etc., this will get you clear of any liabilities and suits concerning the same.

I would also list the age limitations for children's use, such as "small parts-could be a choking hazard for small children" and list it clearly on each toy you list for sale to the public. Most large corporations list this on their toys but some do not list it in large and clear print. They get sued but most of the time win because ultimately it is up to the consumer to read everything about the product before they buy it BUT you do not want to be in this position to begin with so list it clear!

That's about all I would list to begin with here because I could turn this into a book, but it's a good starting point.

Good Luck!


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## Domer

I used to make wooden toys and went to a lot of craft fairs. I quit about 20 years ago and my least expensive toy way back then was $5.00 and my most expensive toy was $25. I did not quit because of sales, I changed jobs and did not have the time to devote to that business.

Unless you are making really easy to make toys, it seems to me that anything for $5.00 is too expensive.

An example was a little car i made with a little toy person inside. I started selling it for $3.50. I made it a couple of inches longer and added a second person and sold it for $7.50. I sold a lot more for $7.50 than I did for $3.50.

I found that designing the toys was the most fun part. Making 50 of one of them was a little boring but that was how I made a little money.

Domer


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## bonesbr549

Ok don't want to bust your bubble, but think long and hard if you are going to make a go of it. If you will be small time an don't think you will get noticed ok. However read this link. There was a large discussion when the law changed back in 2012 requiring testing of toys. It did not allow any differences from the little guy making a buck to the big importers. Testing is expensive. I was going to go into making thomas the train track, but backed off when i did the research. If you go by the law, you can't make a profit. No good deed goes unpunished.

http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Business--Manufacturing/Business-Education/Toy-Safety/FAQs-Safety-Standard-for-Childrens-Toys/


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## SCOTSMAN

Keep the glue non toxic, and or paint varnish in fact whatever finish you use.On top of this if possible keep it all wood and certainly no metal nails or pins etc.I have never sold anything I made in my life I do it all for the therapeutic and fun value usually for my family and friends.I have made a few toys and never incorporated screws nails or any metal just wood.I would be too scared for my grandkids to get injured at anytime which would break my heart I wish you well. but please just concentrate on small volume and as said don't borrow heavily or invest too much too soon Have safe fun Alistair


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## MacNut11

Like Domer I quit making toys about 20 years. I did some of the largest Arts and Crafts shows in NC. One year I did 12 shows and also worked full-time. I just simply got burned out on it. My toys ranged from about $3.00 - $90.00. The $3 ones were basically scrap 3/4" Pine cars and trucks, bought axle pegs and wheels in bulk case lots. I had about $0.20 in each one not including labor. My main sellers were 18 wheeler trucks that ranged from $40 to $90. If I can find some old photos and scan them I'll post them sometime.


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## JAAune

Figure out how to make the stuff with the inexpensive tools first and see if they sell. If so, then figure out what tools will increase productivity the most per dollar spent.


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## Puzzleman

bonesbr549, the rules have changed in that only if you have over $1,000,000 in sales do you have to have all of the testing done.

Even though I am not even close to that amount of sales, I had the testing done. I had all of my paints and finishes tested for just $250. What I did was to take a tablespoon of every paint and finish and mixed it all together in one container. Then sent that in to be tested. This way I only paid for one test instead of over 20 tests for each individual paint / finish. At first the company balked about doing it that way. so I told them that I would go elsewhere for the test and then, surprise, they did it.

As far as the testing concerning that parts are assembled tightly, that can be done in house. You have to provide documentation that there is a regular testing procedure and is done on random samples. It's easy to set up a program.

As with any thing. it will seem bad at first and then when the dust settles, it isn't so bad.


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## Wholesaletoys

Good.. use non toxic paint and create a website for your business.


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## abie

Personal liability issues here in CA were the reason my Club quit making toys for the disadvantaged.
We made hundreds and gave them away.
So sad.


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## MagicSawDust

Have a look at Etsy.com as a place to sell hand made items, including wooden toys.

Join Pinterest.com and post photos of your toys from your etsy page. I have seen quite a few examples of hand made wooden toys this way.

There is an Etsy.com.au in Australia, not sure if there is one in Europe as well.

Good luck and have fun.

Pity about the insurance and liability issue, on the one hand, but on the other hand (I have this bird) - seriously, think of the bad old days when safety was not a real concern. Browse through old Popular Mechanics magazines and you will be amazed.


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## FellingStudio

Another old thread that got resurrected …

Did you ever get the business off the ground?


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## AlaskaGuy

PSA

"Handmade at Amazon.com" A new place to sell your wares is coming.

http://consumerist.com/2015/05/26/amazon-trying-to-lure-etsy-sellers-to-new-handmade-marketplace/

http://www.wsj.com/article_email/amazon-targets-etsy-with-handmade-marketplace-1432332301-lMyQjAxMTE1NDI5MjMyMTI2Wj


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## Boston

What type of paints are okay for toys?


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## Yonak

..A case where the answer came before the question :



> #15 posted 06-17-2014 08:51 AM
> 
> I make children s toys and puzzles for a living. I have been doing this for over 10 years.
> 
> Concerning the liability of finishes or the CPSIA (Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act). This came around because of the lead in paint from China situation from several years ago. These rules only apply to any company or individual having gross ales of $1,000,000 or more. I doubt many people on here have that amount of sales in toys.
> 
> Concerning product liability. The cost of liability insurance needs to figured into the costs of the products. The reality of life is that there is always the possibility of being sued for things that are beyond our control. Insurance costs are just a part of doing business and need to be treated as any other cost of doing business. Don t think that this only applies to toys. How about someone who makes a chair, the customer uses it for a step stool, one of the rungs break as they use it as a step to get to the seat of the stool to stand on and they fall down and crack their head on the side of the fireplace hearth. You need to have liability insurance for whatever you are making as there are people doing inappropriate things everywhere and expecting to get paid for their mistakes.
> 
> You can put disclaimers on your products but that doesn t always help. Companies have been sued over disclaimers that were violated and someone got hurt. The customer s point was that the wording was vague and was not easily visible. The person didn t win but the lawyers got paid.
> 
> Concerning making $5 toys and paying insurance on top of that. If your margins are so tight that you can t afford the insurance, you need to rethink your pricing. If the markets that you sell in won t support anything more than $5 toys, change markets to ones that will.
> 
> - Puzzleman





> #22 posted 06-19-2014 12:14 PM
> 
> Ok don t want to bust your bubble, but think long and hard if you are going to make a go of it. If you will be small time an don t think you will get noticed ok. However read this link. There was a large discussion when the law changed back in 2012 requiring testing of toys. It did not allow any differences from the little guy making a buck to the big importers. Testing is expensive. I was going to go into making thomas the train track, but backed off when i did the research. If you go by the law, you can t make a profit. No good deed goes unpunished.
> 
> http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Business--Manufacturing/Business-Education/Toy-Safety/FAQs-Safety-Standard-for-Childrens-Toys/
> 
> - bonesbr549


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## Wholesaletoys

> What type of paints are okay for toys?
> 
> - Boston


Acrylic paints that are certified non-toxic, with an AP seal on the package, are the best way to go. You can also use Milk Paint, melted crayon, beeswax and liquid Watercolors.


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## MagicSawDust

> What type of paints are okay for toys?
> 
> - Boston
> 
> Acrylic paints that are certified non-toxic, with an AP seal on the package, are the best way to go. You can also use Milk Paint, melted crayon, beeswax and liquid Watercolors.
> 
> - Wholesaletoys


Thanks for the melted crayon idea.

If I may suggest water dye from U-Beaut.com Based in Australia, will ship worldwide.

This from the website:

These dyes are specially for use under Shellawax & Shellawax Cream but can be used under all other surface finishes, including: Danish oil, polyurethane, nitrocellulose lacquer varnish, shellac, etc.

I have used *food coloring*, made one of my toy road graders bright yellow, and a toy airplane blue red and yellow. Food coloring also needs a surface finish.


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## NotMadeInChina

All -

I love this topic. Great input from everybody here and I learned a lot. I have been toying around (no pun intended) to sell wooden toys to babies / toddlers. When my little ones where that age, it was hard to find anything eco friendly. Problem is, I am not as hands-on as all of you. However, I am a marketer, operations and sales guy. I would love to hear from you guys regarding finding a shop which could start with small batches but grow if necessary? Some guidelines:
1) product should conform to CPSIA
2) Eco friendly
3) maybe drool resistant paint or no paint
4) US made of course
5) initial batch of 50 units

Let me know what you all think ;-)

Thank you in advance!


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## Finn

$5-$10 toys sell well. I make and sell many different items but the toys are the most lucrative to make and sell. I sell at craft shows and my toy sales always cover my space rent. Making toys does get boring. Insurance to cover toys costs $850 a year. That is a lot of $5 toys just for that. I do not put any finish on toys, and avoid toys that have wheels.


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## Puzzleman

NotMadeInChina,

Sent PM.

Jim


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## 000

> All -
> 
> I have been toying around (no pun intended) to *sell wooden toys to babies / toddlers*.
> 
> Let me know what you all think ;-)
> 
> Thank you in advance!
> 
> - NotMadeInChina


They will have to be pretty cheap, babies/toddlers don't make much! :>/


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## NotMadeInChina

> All -
> 
> I have been toying around (no pun intended) to *sell wooden toys to babies / toddlers*.
> 
> Let me know what you all think ;-)
> 
> Thank you in advance!
> 
> - NotMadeInChina
> 
> They will have to be pretty cheap, babies/toddlers don t make much! :>/
> 
> - jbay


that is funny! I am sure, some of the babies are making more than me these days ;-)


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## tncraftsman

PM sent


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## Carloz

Do you think you can compete with a Chinese worker? Check amazon, they have pretty elaborate wooden toys for close to nothing.


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## NotMadeInChina

> Do you think you can compete with a Chinese worker? Check amazon, they have pretty elaborate wooden toys for close to nothing.
> 
> - Carloz


Dear Carlos, not on price but I am willing to try on design, eco friendly and made in the US. A lot of the toys on amazon are made in China, Taiwan, Vietnam and Europe….


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