# how do you unglue a yellow glued joint without destroying it?



## scottishrose (Sep 25, 2009)

I'm taking a class in woodworking and being a bit miffed is putting it mildly. (I just got home and it wasn't a good day. 
I told my instructor the first day what kind of finish I wanted to put on my project, since I didn't like the wood I was working with and haveing seen finishes that amazed me that they were the same wood, I would like to try and at least use my project to learn a new technique that I havn't used yet. Last week we bought the stain and finishes we were going to use and were told that we should do some of the finishing before class today. When I talked to my instructor last night he said not to worrry and just bring it to class as it was and we would do it in class. In response I told him that the technique that I was using took a long time to dry and how were we going to work that out durring the class time. This morning I told him I intended on returning the stain I bought last week as it was not what I wanted to use. As the morning progressed and we were doing a raised panel and making the joints for the rails and stiles of the door I was getting more and more disappointed with my project as I really was dislikeing the the outcome and the wood I was working with and it looked quite ugly. Then the instructor just opened the stain and started applying it to the panel of my door which looked even uglier now and glued it up for me even thought I requested that he let me take it home and work on it so that I would get the finish I wanted in the end. 
Now I have a very rough panel inset inside glued up rails and stiles, and since we didn't finish this week anyway we are having one more class to finish up. So luckily I got away with the rest of my project unglued so I can get a good finish on it before class next week The problem is how do I get the rails and stile apart so I can sand the stain off and apply a wood filler and a french polish as I had intended in the first place?

I don't want this class to be a complete waste of time as it cost quite a bit, and I havn't even had the chance to change a router bit yet. I am quite disappointed that the insturctor has been running aroung setting everything up for us, so we don't get the chance to learn how to set thing up for ourselves except to watch him do it which is not the same as doing it yourself.
Any suggestions would be helpful.
Thanks to all you experts out there.


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

I feel for you. A instructor is suppose to instruct and not do. He souldn't have touched your wood and stain. If he wants to show a process it should be done on his own wood.


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

some glues you can heat up ,
but with todays glue that might not be an option ?
maybe you just have to complete this one ,
and come back here for better help .
in the little window on top right ,
ask anything you want to know ,
and hit search next to it .
there are many tutorials and instructions here ,
about anything written here ,
or you can go to someones home page by clicking their picture ,
and sending them your questions


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## ToddTurner (Apr 20, 2009)

Fire your instructor.


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## mtkate (Apr 18, 2009)

Wow, I can hardly believe that story. I would have exclaimed "what the heck are you doing???". I wish I could answer. I guess the glue joint is too good to be tapped out?


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## ropedog (Mar 26, 2008)

patron is right, todays glues are almost to good, if you try to take it apart you will probably destroy it. i would just make one more panel and finish it the way you want. i hate to ask, but i am in school also but where are you taking classes?


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

when he tells you to submit your project tell him you never built one he did…..or put his name on the project and hand it in…we did that in trade school whenever our teacher liked to takeover projects


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## closetguy (Sep 29, 2007)

Put it in a freezer for a day. The few times I have left something accidentally in my trailer during the winter, the glue joints gave way with just a little bit of pressure on them. If you will notice on the glue instructions of most bottles, it says "Do not freeze". There is a reason for that.


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## sikrap (Mar 15, 2009)

I can't offer a suggestion about the joint, but I can offer some on the instructor. When the class is over, you will almost certainly be asked to do some sort of evaluation of the class. You should write a very poor review of the class and the instructor in particular. I had a similar situation in a week long class I took a few years back and the organization that ran it invited me back for another class, of my choice, anywhere in the U.S., for free as an apology. I suggest that your statement be polite, but don't pull any punches. People pay an awful lot of money to take the classes and the people profiting from them don't want you telling folks to avoid them. Good luck!!


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## manta (May 19, 2007)

steam it… should soften it up, you may have to do some sanding because the steam will swell the wood at that area… but I have used a clothes steamer to soften regular yellow glue… maybe I was just luckey


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## Betsy (Sep 25, 2007)

Scott - I'm sorry you are having such a bad time with your class. People take classes to learn - to do - not to watch alone. There is a fair bit of watching to be expected - but sounds like your instructor is well out-of-bounds. I'm with Dave - when the class is over write a review that honestly says what went wrong. If the school is worth anything at all - they'll do something to make it right for you.

good luck.


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## scottishrose (Sep 25, 2009)

Thanks Every one!
It''s in the freezer now, if that doesn't work we have a steamer, I'll try that. The class was throught the Woodcraft store. I took Sawdust Therapy for Women 101, which was great and since we didn't have very much experience he started us out with a little hand held laminate trimmer then we worked our way up to the big routers. Along the way we used the band saw, drill press, jointer, plainer and the last day the dreaded table saw. The project was all planned out, so though you didn't have to think about how it was going together, you got experience using all those tools and had a great project to take home. I was looking forward to 102 as I knew that we were going to build a small cabinet with a raised panel door, and it looked like a good skill set to get me going. Even though there are only two of us in the class and we have both had some experience - the instructor just runs aroung doing everything ahead of us setting up the next station for the project. This does not help me to come home and set up and use my own tools, which I was hoping for. 
I was looking forward to 103 where the project is a shaker night stand with a drawer, however I think I could do better spending my few dollars some where else. The classes at Woodcraft are quite pricey although they keep them small which I like. I took a carpentry class once through the local trade school. Back then they didn't have a dedicated campus so the class was at the local high school wood shop. I was the only woman in the class, and all the men had previous training. The teacher did a demonstration of the tools on the first night and then cut everyone loose to do their own thing. I never did finish up my project as I either had no experience on the tools, or the guys just took over on their projects. That was the opposite extreme - class enexpensive - no help from instructor. Wish I could find a happy medium.


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## AaronK (Nov 30, 2008)

yeah, i'd try steaming it. not sure about the glues normally used for instruments, but the way they get acoustic guitars apart for repair is steaming.


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## mattd (Aug 8, 2007)

I don't know if your instructor used Titebond, which is a popular yellow glue, but this is what Titebond's site says about this:

The key to the disassembly of glue joints is weakening the bond. For Titebond Original and Titebond II, raising the glue joint temperature with a heat gun or a blow dryer will reduce the glue's strength. Steam from an iron may also work for Titebond Original. Placing a few drops of water on the edge of a joint made with Titebond Liquid Hide Glue will, after absorbed, cause the joint to weaken.


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

We've got a build a shaker table this weekend at our woodworking club. Cost 85.00 That includes all materials.

Wish we could have you join us.


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## TraumaJacques (Oct 25, 2008)

Get your money back and report the instructor, what he did was wrong and disrespectful to you and I am sure the school (unless he is the owner) will not support his actions.

Also remind him that you reach about 11 000 woodworkers on this site alone he may apologise lol.
Dave is right trash him on the eveluation.


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## scottishrose (Sep 25, 2009)

Hey everyone!
Just an update on the project. My mother bought one of those toby steamers for clothes that used to be advertised on TV, but she never could get the hang of using it without burning herself so when we cleaned the basement a month or so ago, it went into the box. I fished it out and set it up. About 5 containers of water later, I finally got one stile off.
I'm not sure if the whole thing is ruined, Kinda don't care at this point after having a new shirt ruined with the stain I didn't want to use having been slopped all down the front of the vise, which I leaned up against whilst watching said instructor put together more of my project. One stile is off, the panel is so swollen that I can't get it out at this time and the back part of the stiles and rails are warped. I don't know if they might respond to being clamped between some wood for a while why they dry out or not. I'll leave that till tomorrow, ir maybe I better not, and clamp it tonight while it's still wet. 
I don't know how I should approach the whole issue. I think the manager of the store should know that the focus of the class is sending us out with a completed project, not with any skills, but the instructor is not a bad guy either. He has been available for phone calls, makes great sound effects as he sets up machines, tells good stories and is vey helpful, he just doesn't know when to back off, or just give us the information and let us try to figure it out ourselves. I realise letting beginners use dangerous machines they have never used before is a big resposibility, but I would have rather come out of the class having made lots of sample cuts and know how to set up the machines to do so rather than make a uslessly small cabinet so that I could carry it out of class. Although, I was looking forward to posting my first project that will not be it, well, unless I can fix it on my own and actually do a french polish finish on mahogany with all the grain filled. I would have learned that because I figured out how to do it, not because the instructor told me it was too difficult for me to accomplish as he did the mortised henges I bought. If he knew me better he would know that's just egging me on. 
Sarah


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## davidpettinger (Aug 21, 2009)

If your getting something out of the class then good, but remember it is still your time and money you are investing and maybe some constructive criticism is what maybe in order. A letter to the store manager stating your concerns and a critique of the instructor included. Never tell a LJ that something is too difficult, we'll just try harder. I wonder, could one modify a Toby to run a 8 foot PVC steamer tube to bend wood???


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## Chipncut (Aug 18, 2006)

You might try using a heat gun on each joint, because the glue will soften with heat.

You should be careful, & not scorch it though. Even a clothes iron should work for you.


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## Chiefk (Jan 28, 2008)

I have used white vinegar to open a glued joint. I just put the vinegar heavely across the joint and let it seep in. Give it an hour or two and try to remove the joint. It may take several applications, but this method has worked for me. My first time was also with a rail and stile. The vinegar didn't have any adverse effect on the wood as it later took the satin without problems. Good luck pkennedy


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## scottishrose (Sep 25, 2009)

glue joint update:

Last night after getting the stile off, I put the whole thing between two pieces of 3/4" ply and used all the clamps I could find - which in this case C-clamps were a help. This morning I unclamped and the completely warped door was flat, I could get the panel out, and it looked mostly undamaged. I hope I can get it sanded without sanding off the detail, get the grain filler on effectively on all those angles and then get a good french polish on all the parts. Since I'm all set up to sharpen the chisels that were my grandfather's - at least the hand part of the sharpening, have a brand new Work Sharp which came with a handy DVD, and I attended a sharpening class, I really don't anticipate having any real difficulties making the mortises for the henges which the teacher told me would take about 8 hours to do. That seems quite a bit of an overstatement designed to get me to buy a new set of henges like the ones he has on his cabinet, but neglected to tell me to buy.
His henges make the door sit proud of the cabinet enough so it's noticable, which on a small cabinet makes quite a big difference. Maybe on a kitchen cabinet door it would not be noticed, but on a small project things need to look better as people look closer to the details on a smaller pieces. Since I'm looking at this project as a learning tool first and not expecting perfect outcomes, I don't care if the mortises are perfect. They might be and that would be great, then if they aren't, I'll find out or figure out for myself how to do it better next time. 
Thanks everyone for all the advice! You have all given me many things to try or think keep in mind for other projects. Some of the suggestions I didn't have the equipment, others got posted after I already finished getting it apart but look like good ideas to try in the future.

My 11 year old niece was here last night when I came in very upset about the project and typed the first request for help. I told her I would have help soon. She came back a few minutes later as I was opening up my e-mail account and I showed her the list of responses from LJ's. She just stood there wide eyed and said "Dang!" 
For all you beginners out there know that "Lumber Jacks to the Rescue" is on the way when you need help.
Wow, that might just make a good heading for a forum 
I'll let everyone know how things turn out as this is probably going to be a group project.


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## dennis (Aug 3, 2006)

There is a lot involved with wood working. Maybe a big lesson for you would be that being unhappy with how an unfinish project looks is normal. It is really hard to know how a board will look finished.


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

your perseverance is impressive .
and your attention to detail .
for me , woodworking ,
is a series of small details ,
strung together to accomplish 
a theme .
like the single notes that 
form a music whole .

you are destined to become a great composer !


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## CTMike (Jun 7, 2019)

All

When you need to unglue items (small stuff) Micro wave it….!

This tote was glued crooked by the previous owner.










30 seconds in the microwave with a wet paper napkin wrapped around it and…










It comes out hotter than a bit of a volcano, but with just slight pressure it popped apart.

Enjoy….


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

Most of my woodworking was done based on self-learning. I started at an early age (10); I'm now 87. I never took any classes. I was self-learning from books and just plain observation. I knew where I wanted to be and did what needed to be done to get there. The one time I attended a class was at a community college machining class. I joined it mainly to have access to their machines which I didn't have. That achieved my purpose on the project I was working on. The instructor was very helpful and even let me borrow a tool I needed to fix my lathe. Over my life time, I have done many projects ranging from woodworking to house construction to metal working. I am certainly not an expert in any of those fields, but I do know my way around to ask the right questions and know where to go for the answers. Like the Frank Sinatra song, "I did it my way", that is how I have worked all these years.
Now in my "twilight years", I am involved in building my model railroad as It doesn't require lots of energy, just slow, easy, no-rush cutting, trimming and putting together. Actually model railroading has been a main interest for at least 75 years. No one ever showed me how it was done. I just naturally learned on my own how to do it. Back in the day, you had to go to the public library to learn anything new. Today the internet provides all that anyone could ask. They just have to know how to search for what they need. At 87 I am still learning and that will keep me from growing old quickly. I'm slowing down for sure, but my mind is still racing. Lord please don't take me as I still have a lot to learn.
I'm not trying to discourage anyone, but I think taking woodworking classes are a waste of time. The same can be gotten on one's own through using one's brain and not depending on others for all the answers. It's like taking the easy way out. I know the pressures of today's society can put people in uncomfortable positions. That is why some have opted to drop out of society, learn yoga, live in Alaska wilderness and rediscover their life free from pressure.
As far as your instructor is concerned, I think personal liability is a factor. Especially for a place like Woodcraft. They are working under the assumption that the customer (student) has little knowledge and must be treated accordingly. The last thing they want is someone to point out their shortcomings.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

This all could have been avoided if the class had used animal protein glue (hide glue, liquid hide glue) of course. "Modern" glues have their place but replaced animal glues mostly because of marketing. I encourage you to learn about animal glues. They have several advantages over PVA and urea formaldehyde glues and the few proposed disadvantages are insignificant by comparison if even provable.

If you are interested here is a place to start. https://www.lumberjocks.com/shipwright/blog/series/5437


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## squazo (Nov 23, 2013)

The best lesson I ever learned in school was to make sure it was a good school. I was in a terrible cooking class that didnt teach me anything, It was supposed to be a welding course but it was full so I had to take something else so I took cooking. Realizing that the cooking class was near worthless I asked the principal how good the welding course is and he said it was excellent. I managed to graduate that welding class with zero welding skills.


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