# All Wood Construction Vs Metal Fasteners



## TObenhuber (Jan 15, 2014)

I have fairly recently started selling some of my work on the local online yard sales and craigslist. I don't have any fantasy of hitting it rich or turning it into a full time job. My goal is to self fund my hobby by making projects for others to keep my shop running between home reno and my honey do list. So far it's been a break even on materials with marginal returns on time. I'm sure many of you understand the woodworking hobby game working for cents on the hour sometimes. I've been enjoying the time in the shop working on projects and styles I enjoy. Then being able to turn them around for real money. That's a good feeling.

I know my woodworking preferences. I have almost always worked in cheap BORG supplies like Harbor Freight, Minwax, Doug Fir, and Pine. Those are in my price range, convinent distance from my house, and I enjoy turning construction materials into things folks would never expect to show well. I know there are plenty of opinions on using cheap BORG softwood and finishing products for furniture projects but that's my lane of the road. I enjoy it.

I have recently started a common style but one I enjoy making using ¾" dowels on 2X Lumber. I have sold a few benches and currently finishing a commissioned project for a potential client. All using screws for fasteners to allow glue to dry, redrilling the holes at ¾", then tapping in dowels of appropriate size to finish the joints. I figure if there have been houses and barns held together for decade and centuries using this method. It's good enough for me.










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My question, do people really care about the all wood construction? Or, is the larger population just fine buying pocket holes and screws?

I don't want to sacrifice what I enjoy and I won't for projects I am keeping but for projects for sale. I am just not sure it's always worth the extra effort to remove all of the metal when pocket holes are faster and easier. I enjoy both processes but the all wood means more to me and I think that's the hump I am thinking about. I looked at Pier One, Pottery Barn, IKEA, …ETC and see that crap flying off the shelf but when a small time hobbyist makes something of higher quality with lower pricing that will possibly last much longer. Folks want to pay peanuts.

Seems frustrating.

What do you guys and gals think and recommend? Open to any paradigm shift you provide.


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## JackDuren (Oct 10, 2015)

On seats like that all wood mechanical construction wont make much of a difference. I would just stick to your current plan. You could save yourself with a plug cutter.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

I think your methods are sound, but I don't think the public cares whether you use dowels or screws. A compromise might be using screws and plugs, that certainly looks better than pocket screws. You might try making the same product several different ways and keep track of your time and see if there is any difference in customer preference if you offer them all at the same price. A market test and a time study rolled into one.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Only really high-end, educated clients
care about all-wood construction and would
tend to limit that preference to reproduction
styles.

I've seen plugged pocket holes used in
high-end chair construction. It looks ok
and I assume buyers aren't bothered. Today
everybody is used to metal fasteners and
only in the case of specific furniture types
and styles would using screws be an
artistic crime.


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## TObenhuber (Jan 15, 2014)

JackDuren, bondogaposis, Loren,

Thanks for the replies. At least I know I'm not off my rocker. I'll probably keep the dowel joints as my primary means of jointing. I really like it and it really doesn't take long.

Maybe I should bust out the framing nailer and nail one project together. That would surely be fast. LOL!!!



> You might try making the same product several different ways and keep track of your time and see if there is any difference in customer preference if you offer them all at the same price. A market test and a time study rolled into one.
> 
> - bondogaposis


Really go idea.

I did stroll through those mass produced stores recently with my wife and that's probably why I'm bothered. Some of that stuff is just so expensive and just not built to last. Its sad when you look at things in the store for sale and notice things that need to be fixed. LOL!!! Then you fix them. I had a store employee looking at me but I told them I'll fix it and they walked off.


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

Figure out the metal attachment and leave the caps off (or put caps in kit) so you can ship knocked down flat and have cust assemble - you'll save a *bunch* of shipping.

M


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## TObenhuber (Jan 15, 2014)

> Figure out the metal attachment and leave the caps off (or put caps in kit) so you can ship knocked down flat and have cust assemble - you ll save a *bunch* of shipping.
> 
> M
> 
> - Madmark2


Interesting. I haven't tried shipping anything yet. Mostly local. I might have to move into that area at some point and I will definitely take your advice.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Metal fasteners only bother woodworkers, the public doesn't care. Just like hand cut vs machine cut dovetails.


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## TObenhuber (Jan 15, 2014)

> Metal fasteners only bother woodworkers, the public doesn t care. Just like hand cut vs machine cut dovetails.
> 
> - Rick M


Probably one of the easier things to forget. Most of my opinions are from the woodworker point of view. Not the general public's. Very Good Point. I might be to far into the woodworking trench. This sight is wonderful for this type of insight. Easy to forget the public LOVES Ikea type CRAP!!!


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

You hit the nail on the head the public is completely happy with that ikea type of curbside furniture. Most of the public can't tell the difference between good solid all wood construction and pressed board junk.


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## DirtyMike (Dec 6, 2015)

Don't take this the wrong way , But you are using construction grade lumber for furniture and you are worried about the impact of using metal fasteners. I am no hardwood snob, but the moisture content and movement of 2x lumber is very real.


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## TObenhuber (Jan 15, 2014)

> You hit the nail on the head the public is completely happy with that ikea type of curbside furniture. Most of the public can t tell the difference between good solid all wood construction and pressed board junk.
> 
> - corelz125


Thanks, got to put the pieces together slowly. Always learning.



> Don t take this the wrong way , But you are using construction grade lumber for furniture and you are worried about the impact of using metal fasteners. I am no hardwood snob, but the moisture content and movement of 2x lumber is very real.
> 
> - DirtyMike


Even if I let it rest and let the wood reach acceptable moisture contents. I'd say the techniques are the same regardless of hardwoods or softwoods. The grade of wood and the added work to get the required finish should be the only difference right? Just a question and no offense taken.

Anyways, my concern wasn't the impact so much as to should I even waist time. Pocket holes are cheap and fast vs the dowel technique I've used lately or if it even matters. As others have said and I'll tend to agree, cheap and fast knock down furniture for sale. M&T or "through dowel joints" for me.

Thanks guys and gals.


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

> Metal fasteners only bother woodworkers, the public doesn t care. Just like hand cut vs machine cut dovetails.
> 
> - Rick M


I'll take that one step further and say the good majority of the public doesn't care about dovetails at all.
Not in my experience anyway…


> Only really high-end, educated clients
> care about all-wood construction and would
> tend to limit that preference to reproduction
> styles.
> - Loren


Yep.


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## TObenhuber (Jan 15, 2014)

> Metal fasteners only bother woodworkers, the public doesn t care. Just like hand cut vs machine cut dovetails.
> 
> - Rick M
> 
> ...


Good point again. Looking at Pier One with my wife there weren't any dovetails or M&T. Just pin nails, lose screws, and pocket holes. Then they still want your right arm for the price.


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