# How would you....?



## jjmill1980 (Apr 5, 2010)

I am looking into the possibility of making a stand for a hanging cradle/bassinet similar to this one, but out of wood:










I have some ideas on how best to go about this, what are yours (methods, wood type, etc.)?

FYI, I have not built anything that has to do with complex angles or curves. Straight and square has been my motto but I would like to venture out of my square world and need some help!


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## BrandonW (Apr 27, 2010)

I would find some nice and strong straight grained wood, perhaps oak, and cut it into thin, bendable strips. Glue the pieces together on a mold that match your desired shape. The method is called bent lamination and I've used it to make rockers for a couple of rocking chairs and imagine it'd work well for your operation.


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## jjmill1980 (Apr 5, 2010)

That is kind of what I was thinking. But, like I said I have never ventured down this path before. So that brings up some more questions: 

Is Alder a strong straight grained wood? I ask because I have a stack of Alder in my garage (here again, I am just starting to venture out of my previous comfort zones. All of my projects to this point have consisted of dimensional pine and/or MDF so I know very little about "real" wood. I purchased Alder just to have some "real" wood around because it was cheap.)
What sort of dimensions would be needed to make this sufficiently strong? (The pictured one is rated for 33 lbs.)
The height of the mold would be determined by the width of my lamination. What about the other dimensions of the mold?
What kind of wood does the mold need to be made from?

Thanks for the help!


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Ditto Brandon. I'd steam them into place then after they dry in the mold, glue them up. It will be very strong. Oak is recommended. Strips should be 1/16th and you'll need about 10, 12 if you want to shape the wood.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

I make my molds from some old particle board. I just double it and use one inch dowels to whatever dimension I want. You can use MDF or plywood if you have that laying around. The key is to get the wood clamped every 2 or 3 inches or where there tends to be a gap. If you clamp it right it will be amazingly strong with little bend. 
I've never glued up alder so someone else will need to answer that.


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## BrandonW (Apr 27, 2010)

Russell is spot on. I used MDF to make my mold. You'll want it as thick to the point where the mold won't flex. Here's my rocker mold. It was thick enough to make two rockers on one glue up. Also, for the glue, get plastic resin glue.


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## BrandonW (Apr 27, 2010)

My gut is saying no to the alder, but honestly I don't have enough experience with that wood to say one way or another. It's only holding 33 pounds, so that might not be an issue.


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## jjmill1980 (Apr 5, 2010)

Russell & Brandon thanks for the info.

What about glueing up walnut? I ask because my wife is not at all a fan of Oak (she likes the darker stuff). Yeah, oak is cheaper and we could just but a dark stain on it. Just exploring options here.

So, if this thing is about 5' tall that would be a large mold/form compared to Brandon's and would need 40+ clamps. Do these strips need to be continuous or can they be randomly "spliced" together?

Thanks again for the help!


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

You want enough clamps to clamp it together tightly. You can use walnut, it's a bit more resistant to bending without breaking. for that curve it should hold up okay. You could always use an iron and a wet rag to add some steam to help the bending process. 
If you don't have that many clamps, simply clamp up what you can and then just glue up some more when the first part is dry till you have it all done.


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## jjmill1980 (Apr 5, 2010)

Thanks again Russell.

Do the strips need to be continuous? I am asking because the height of the pictured stand is 66", so the circumference of a 66" circle is 207". It appears to me that this is just over half of the circle so I am thinking 1/2 the circumference plus 18-24". That works out to be 121-127", which is over 10'. Is it common to find hardwoods over 7-8'?


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

You could take some of that length off by modifying the base, use two supports between the two feet and then come out of the back one with the arm. If you do multiple pieces make sure you stagger them by at least a foot.


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## jjmill1980 (Apr 5, 2010)

Great idea Russell.

I just watched a youTube video (



) where the guy used Gorilla Glue and stretch wrap instead of clamps. It appears he uses screws into a sheet of MDF to hold the wrapped pieces of wood in the shape he wants. Any one ever try this before? What are your thoughts? Is Gorilla Glue more visible in the finished product?


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

I use Titebond II. Give the shrink wrap a try.


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## jjmill1980 (Apr 5, 2010)

The guy in the video said normal yellow and white glues wouldn't dry inside of the shrink wrap. Although, how does it dry when it is "sealed" between two pieces of wood?


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## jjmill1980 (Apr 5, 2010)

Jonathan, thanks for the pics!

I had thought of using a tie down strap, but my first thought was to wrap it around the piece and the form, which wouldn't work well, and not along the curve. I think that this would work great since I don't have 40+ clamps that would be necessary to clamp every 2-3".


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## casual1carpenter (Aug 16, 2011)

I found this blog post, seems very detailed to me and might be worth a look for you.

http://lumberjocks.com/bfd/blog/6226

He has a light stand pictured towards the bottom of the blog that might offer some insight into your project. However I would look at increasing the base width and decrease the attachment extension arm area to achieve a better center of gravity, a light is not a baby and we don't want mama mad.


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## LeeBarker (Aug 6, 2010)

I just completed a rocker, jj, and I used Franklin polyurethane glue (which I prefer to Gorilla and others). I did 17 laminations (back slats plus rockers) for two chairs and they all came out remarkably similar with no noticeable springback.

Two other excellent species for bending are hickory and ash. Alas, light colored, but you could dye them.

Yes, you do need lots of clamps but you'll never regret the purchase. Full length pieces will serve you best. They need to be ripped accurately with a sharp blade.

Now, another thought. This curve looks natural to me. What do you guys who are experienced benders think of this suggestion:

1. rips as described
2. slow setting glue. Polyurethane would work

3. Stack the strips (ooooh, just thought of this, alternating alder and walnut can be beautiful!) and drill a 1/4" hole through the ends. Apply the glue and bolt the hole

4. Clamp the bolted end to your bench and bend the glueup to an arc that looks right. It could be pre-drawn on the bench top. Use blocks screwed to the bench to guide the bends as needed.

5. Clamp as needed

6. Wait a couple days

7. Remove, clean up and shape.

Kindly,

Lee


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## LeeBarker (Aug 6, 2010)

Alder and walnut:










Kindly,

Lee


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## LeeBarker (Aug 6, 2010)

An example of what we might call a horizontal form is here.

Kindly,

Lee


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## jjmill1980 (Apr 5, 2010)

casual1carpenter thanks for the link. That looks like a very good resource, I am sure I will be referring to it if the Misses signs off on this project.

Lee, thanks for your input as well. I love the idea of alternating Walnut and Alder, not sure what my wife thinks about it though. BTW that is a beautiful rocker you built. I have just recently been introduced to the Maloof style and I absolutely love it. If you have any suggestions on how I can adapt the basics of the pictured stand to be more "Maloof" please pass them along.

Now about your suggestion of drilling and bolting the ends. What I first envisioned upon reading this is that I could then pull those two ends together to get a "natural" curve without the use of a form. Upon reading your suggestions a 2nd, 3rd, ... time I don't think this what you meant. Would it work to pull the ends together to produce a "natural" curve? If I put a bolt through the ends won't that mess things up since the each piece of the lamination will need to slide as it is pulled into the shape I want? Forgive me if I have screwed all of this up.


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## LeeBarker (Aug 6, 2010)

Bolting one end together (in the waste portion) is just a way of keeping things together if you don't have your octopus arms on that day.

When you're gluing up something like this there has to be a plane of reference.

If the benchtop is the plane of reference, then sure, get a tourniquet between the ends and reef away. The neat thing about this process is that you can reef until your eye doesn't like it, then back it off until it's just exactly what you want.

You will then need to do some creative clamping, always with the laminations touching or close to the benchtop. Otherwise you'll have that spiral thing going.

Kindly,

Lee


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Alder is not a very strong wood. I have a bunch of it myself intended for a future cabinet project. I don't know about the bendability of it. Having plies in 2 or 3 sections should be okay, but not your first layer of the lam and outermost ply. And of course you want to stagger the joints by several inches to avoid weak spots. Single length would be best. One way to check how long you need is to take a fairly long piece of very flexible material and simply flex it by hand to the approximate curvature you want, then mark where the length looks good. Epoxy is another good glue for laminations, but not on oak. Apparently the oak has acids that are not compatible with epoxy over the long haul. A cheap easy way to make clamps is to use blocks of plywood (2X4 inches, 3/4 thick) and all-thread. You're not going to have high stresses with a curve of these proportions. 1/4" all-thread, or 5/16" should be plenty. Drill holes in each end of each piece of ply, run all-threads through (make them maybe 5 or 6 in. long), pop on nuts and washers, and tighten. Many a boatbuilder has resorted to ploys such as this. Cover the wood with wax paper or Saran so the wrong parts don't stick together. Don't worry if your plies don't all lie perfectly flush with each other. You'll be jointing them down after the glue has cured. This probably would be springier than that metal one (maybe a good thing?) but I'll bet anything it will be a lot stronger. I probably would shoot for a cross section of 1 1/2 to 1 3/8 square. Nicely round the corners. Oh, this will also look a heck of a lot nicer than that metal job. Soon all your friends will be clamoring for one.


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## jjmill1980 (Apr 5, 2010)

runswithscissors, thanks for your input. Do you really think 1 3/8" square is strong enough? I was thinking I would need to shoot for more than that. Again I have no clue about this and am totally relying on the experts here to guide me through this project. I would tend to overbuild. Especially on this since, as casual1carpenter stated so well, "a light is not a baby and we don't want mama mad"


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Yeah, you could make it a little more robust. But I'll bet it will be very strong, even more so if you use full length plies. I suspect that bent steel tube is of very light gauge. I'd trust the wood before the steel tubing.


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## jjmill1980 (Apr 5, 2010)

I did find that the hardwood dealer near me stocks 8/4 Red Oak in 10' lengths. I am planning to go pick some up this next week.

I have a Ryobi 10" Band Saw, but I am concerned that I won't be able to resaw worth a darn on that thing. I need to track down a blade for it as well. If anyone has suggestions/input to help me be successful here I would appreciate it. If my efforts to use the band saw fail I will just run them on the table saw.


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## jjmill1980 (Apr 5, 2010)

Hey thanks again to all who have given me direction on this project. I just thought I would give an update. We decided to go ahead with the hammock stand. I picked up a 12' length of 8/4 Red Oak a couple of weeks a ago. I just started jointing it tonight and what a task that was. I work out of a two-car garage and I had to put my jointer in the center of the garage on a diagonal to get the 24' necessary to run this beast. BTW this is the first piece of rough stock I have ever worked with so it was intimidating and very educational. I am very pleased with the results thus far. Escpecially considering my jointer has a 46" bed. Here are a couple pics.


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## derosa (Aug 21, 2010)

Looks like a nice spacious set up. Look forward to seeing the progress.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

I have to agree with Russel as laminated wood is stronger than an individual piece of the same size. The Forest Products Laboratory in Madison Wisconsin one of the developers of the gluelam beams used in wide use today and has all types of of information available on many different aspects of wood products.

And, if you feel the need you can add some spring steel hidden in the lamination.

I tend to push the Forest Products Laboratory as they are key to keeping our hobby/profession alive.


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