# Worth installing a 220v line just to upconvert my R4512?



## ADHDan (Aug 17, 2012)

I've got the R4512 saw, and I'm about to start running dedicated electric lines to my shop. I'm installing two separate 110v circuits, one for my tools and one dedicated line for my dust collector. As long as I'm having this work done, I'm thinking about having a 220v line put in so that I can upconvert my table saw.

Assuming I'm not getting a new 220v table saw in the future, is it worth getting this line installed and rewiring the R4512? If I were going to get a new saw, it would probably be the SawStop 110v contractor model, so I don't see myself getting a 220v saw any time soon. So, is it worth the extra cost to put this line in? None of my other tools are 220v, and I'm not sure how much benefit I'd see from rewiring the R4512. Thanks!


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

I had the AC and the TS set on separate circuits (240) when we built 4 yrs. ago. I find the units start up quicker, and don't have to worry abt. overloading stuff. Just seems to me that a couple extra 240 lines would cost practically zip, and ya never know when ya might need 'em.
Bill


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## ADHDan (Aug 17, 2012)

Yeah, I should have used a different thread title. My question really is, is it worth the extra cost of having a 220v line put into my shop if I don't have any 220v tools now, and likely won't be getting any in the near future - even if I get a better table saw. So, I'd just be getting the 220v line put in ONLY for the R4512 (which I'd have to upgrade), or the off chance that I get a 220V saw.

I suppose a related question is: can the SawStop 110v contractor saw be rewired for 220v?


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## ADHDan (Aug 17, 2012)

For clarification, I will have a dedicated circuit for all of my non-DC tools, and I don't see myself running the TS at the same time as any other tool. So really, if I keep the TS at 110v it will always be the only draw on the line when it's on. All my other tools will be off, and all of the lights, battery chargers, etc. in my shop are on totally separate circuits.


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## marcuscraft (Nov 14, 2012)

I dont think you'll see any real world difference between a dedicated 220V vs a dedicated 110V. A watt is a watt (watts = volts * amps). This is assuming that the motor is rated at and putting out 1.5HP (I think thats what the R4512 is?) at both 220V and 110V.

Me personally, I would still run 220V. I've learned w/ power equipment, you should never say never and now have 3 220V machines.


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## ADHDan (Aug 17, 2012)

I guess it's just a question of the cost of installing a 220v line now, versus the cost of installing a 220v line down the road if I end up getting a 220v tool. If I do it now, it will be less labor cost (as compared to a future line install), because my contractor can install all the lines at once. But, I don't really want to pay extra for parts and labor that I likely won't need - especially in a shop as small as mine, which is never going to hosue a cabinet saw (my shop is 12×16).

What other tools would I possibly get that use a 220v circuit? I just got the HF dust collector last month, so I don't plan on upgrading that any time soon, and I'm sticking with the R4512 for a LONG time - and then maybe swapping it for the SawStop 110v saw. I just don't know if it's worth the extra money to run the 220v line.

I suppose I suppose I should ask my contractor for estimates with and without the 220v line?


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## dontrushme (Jul 23, 2012)

Marcus is right- "A watt is a watt (watts = volts * amps)". BUT, in this case, the Watts remain the same. the Volts double, so the Current drops in half. This makes the voltage-drop at the motor half (assuming the same wire size) at 220 than 110. The percent loss in voltage drops by four since the voltage doubled and the voltage-drop halved! Motors like that. I would opt for 220V.


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## marcuscraft (Nov 14, 2012)

Ralph -

That was the one caveat I thought about mentioning but didnt want to muck up the conversation anymore than it inevitably will be =) The motor will definitely "like" 220V more, but I think w/ most electric motors, 110 or 220, they're going to outlive me at this point, so that skews my point of view a bit!


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## ADHDan (Aug 17, 2012)

So then, let me rephrase my question: is it worth paying a little extra to install a 220v circuit now, while I'm installing two 110v circuits, if I do not have any tools that would use 220v except for the R4512 (which I'd have to convert), and am unlikely to get any 220v tools in the future?

Will the performance difference from the saw alone be enough to warrant the cost of installing the 220v line now, or should I just get the 110s installed and cross the 220 bridge if/when I come to it?


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

220v will probably get the motor up to speed faster but will not result in any additional power for machining operations. what 220v will do is provide for more "mileage" out of whatever subpanel is feeding your shop area. i learned this the hard way in my 30A shop when i refurbed a 70s vintage unisaw.

it's 3hp baldor motor was a dual voltage motor drawing 32A at 110v and 16A at 220v. those are FLA specs. in theory, that meant that, under full load, the saw wouldn't operate in my shop at 110v. but being wired for 220v, it only drew 16A (not 16A per wire, but 16A total). this allowed for the saw to operate within my electrical load parameters and also allowed me to operate both the unisaw and a 220v delta 50-850 (6A at 220v) on the 20A 220v same circuit.

IMHO, it's more than worth the $100-200 additional cost for a 20A 220v home run.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

As long as you aren't acquiring old semi-industrial
machinery or stuff like a woodmaster or a 
drum sander, you can get by just fine with
no 220.


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## marcuscraft (Nov 14, 2012)

Dan -

If your decision is being made purely on current equipment, I would not run 220V. As Loren said, there are plenty of people who only have 110V and are more than content their whole lives.

If you think there is the slightest chance that you will at some point get a 220V machine in your shop in the future, I would get the 220V line now so you're not kicking yourself later.


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## dklyons87 (Sep 1, 2012)

Your added cost for running thicker gauge wire SHOULDNT really add any extra labor costs if you were going to run 110 v in its place(not sure if thats what you were doing). The only added cost in my mind would be the lower gauge wire, higher amperage breakers, and receptacles. IMO the benefit of having 220 run now would far outweigh the cost.


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## TurningHeads (Apr 2, 2011)

Go for it. You know you'll see some tool that some fool is giving away for practically nothing that will take 240VAC. I ran it for my lathe, but ended up getting a 120V lathe. I was able to get a 220 dust collector so I'm glad I ran the extra wire for the minimal cost.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

I guess it depends on how much extra it would cost. 220v tends to have lower voltage loss, and the motors start and recover faster from heavy load, which can make them seem to have more power, even though theoretically they don't. It's probably easier and cheaper to do now….you just never know when the need for 220v might come along in the future. I'd hate to see you pass up the chance if the price difference in minor.


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## ADHDan (Aug 17, 2012)

All good advice. I think this will hinge on what my contractor quotes me for the project with or without the 220v line. I honestly think I will be just fine with only the 110v circuits, based on my shop size and the type of work I do, but if the marginal cost is insignificant I might as well get the 220v while the work is being done.

I worked out of a garage for two years with all of my tools and my shop-vac run on one set of outlets on a single circuit. Now, even without the 220v line, I'll have three sets of outlet pairs and one quad-outlet on one circuit (for my bench tools), another set of outlet pairs on a separate circuit just for my DC, and two other outlet pairs on the opposing wall - each of which is connected to a separate circuit.

So in all, I'll have my shop running off four different circuits - meaning I can have a dedicated circuit for DC, a dedicated circuit for bench tools and table saw, a dedicated circuit for lighting, and a fourth circuit for anything else that may come up. That's an awful lot of circuits in a 12×16 shop. (My house has some very strange wiring; the pre-existing outlets in the shop area were each on a separate circuit to begin with.)


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## Woodmaster1 (Apr 26, 2011)

I run my own it is not that hard. Try finding a friend that knows how to do it and get advice. I started with one for my table saw and now have a dust collector and future plans include a planer. So I am going to run at least 4 more 220 receptacles.


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## ADHDan (Aug 17, 2012)

Setting aside whether it would cause any problems with my homeowners insurance, I have no experience doing electrical besides replacing an outlet every now and then. Plus, my breaker box is in the garage and I'm not that interested in going up and fishing through the electrical/HVAC soffit.

There are a lot of things I love to learn to do on my own, but electrical (other than basic stuff) isn't one of them.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

since you are doing elecrtical work NOW - might as well throw that 220v circuit into the mix NOW then having to call the electrician AGAIN down the road and paying double for the labor.

If I were you, I would run the DC on a 220v as well, and do all the wiring now so that I won't have to convert, or do anything down the road when all the tools/projects/lumber are in place.

to sum this up - I would add 2 220v lines NOW, 1 for TS, and one for DC. while this may not make your saw more powerful, it will make the motor happier long term.


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## ADHDan (Aug 17, 2012)

All good points. I think I probably will go ahead with the 220v plan, unless the price difference is something ridiculous (which I don't think it will be). Thanks.


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## marcuscraft (Nov 14, 2012)

You may want to try to throw it in after you get your quote for the 110V. Just ask him "would it only be a few more bucks to go 220V on one of them?" Let him know you have a couple people bidding the job too.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

You need 2 open breaker positions to run one 220 volt
line. You can also use split breakers. They are cheap.
Put split breakers on a couple of breaker tabs and you 
can get 1 220 volt line and 2 110 volt lines off the 
2 breaker positions.

That's partly why running 220 at the box is so easy. Then
you need a conduit to go from the box to where
you want the plug. Pull the 2 hots and a ground through
the conduit and wire up the plug. Electricians are
skilled at bending conduit to fit, so that's something.


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## ADHDan (Aug 17, 2012)

My contractor has a long-term relationship (practically friendship) with my family, so he already gives me decent rates and I trust him a great deal. He frequently comes over and spends an hour or more just walking around and talking about projects with me at no charge, and he encourages me to do work myself when he thinks it's within my capabilities - rather than trying to dissuade me, just so he can get the project.

I'm guessing he's going to tell me that I'm really not looking at more than cost of materials for the extra 220 line, so I'll probably go for it.


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## fredj (Jun 4, 2013)

Go for the 220. Most motors over 1 hp can be set up for 110 or 220. I only know enough 'bout electricity to not get killed. As I understand it, 220 will cost you less as the motor is not working as hard, could be wrong, but my 3 hp 220 motor has never shut the lights off. The 1 1/2 hp 120 on my other table saw has.


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## fredj (Jun 4, 2013)

Oh yeah, what is a R4512, as in who makes it ? I must be missing the obvious ! I have a Delta Unisaw, and a 10" Inca for table saws. The motor for the Inca could be set up for 110 or 220.


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

I think you are only talking about $100 in material and that is a high estimate extra. I am pretty much doing the same thing as you are and I am definitely going to run the 220 and I dont have anything that can run 220…...YET.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

220v will cost the same to operate within a fraction of a penny. Utility companies bill in Kilawatt-hours. Watts = voltage times amperage. 220v doubles the voltage, but halves the amperage, so total wattage used is the same. 220v does tend handle peak demands better, thus avoiding excess heat that occurs from voltage sag during peak demands, which can help the motor survive longer.


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## Fresch (Feb 21, 2013)

Have a sub-panel put in ~ 60 amps, if your panel in the garage can handle it. This way the labor is less one main home run, rather then 2-3 smaller home runs. You will now have all the power you need in your shop. At the lowest cost in the long run.


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## JeanValjean (Mar 6, 2011)

At the very least… Have the proper wire ran for 220 (usually 10/3 NM-B but check local code) but only make the circuit 120 20A and if you do pick up a 220 tool down the road than change the outlet and breaker and you are done.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Run the lines for future use, but there is no need to upgrade the 4512, it can cut 8/4 like butter with the right blade. I've switched to a thin kerf blade and I'm in love with it. It's a 90$ freud, I've had it a year and it's cut everything in that year and still cuts like the day I bought it. That's with almost daily use. The best part is there is little to no kickback with it.


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## ADHDan (Aug 17, 2012)

I spoke to my contractor, we're going with the two 110v circuits and the 220v, and as a bonus he's going to get the parts and help upconvert my table saw. I know that's an easy task and something I could do myself, but it was nice of him to throw it in.

I do use a thin kerf blade on the TS, but even still I like the idea of running it at 220v. Plus, it sounds like that will be better for the motor, and who knows - I may end up acquiring other 220v tools down the road, or upgrading to a beefier TS. Might as well get the 220v done now.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Fredj, the R4512 is the current model number for the Ridgid 10" hybrid table saw. If you do a search you will see that it has been mentioned so often on this site that most folks just shorten the name to the model number.
The three last models of Ridgids were the R3650 (full cast iron table and wings), R4511 (granite table and wings) and the R4512 (cast iron table and stamped steel wings)


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

Coming from someone who has everything running off of 110 with 4 20A circuits, I would not think it would pay off very quickly to pay for the 220 line and the upgrade to a saw that is not able to be wired for 220. I have a saw that is able and I don't think I'll ever change it. For the short amounts of time that the saw is running I think it will take a long time to pay off with saved electricity. I think the only reason I might change it someday would be if I decide to get some sort of larger shop heater and need to save the amps running out to my shop. I see you're in MN and that might be a consideration for you.


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## rfusca (May 9, 2013)

That's a keeper of a contractor!


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

*I think it will take a long time to pay off with saved electricity.*

it's a common error but 220v wiring saves no wattage at all. a dual voltage electric motor wired for 220v will use the same wattage as it will if wired for 110v.

*need to save the amps running out to my shop*

220v wiring does allow for the amperage in, for example, a given subpanel to be used more effectively.

also, since most larger dust collectors (1.5 hp and up) are 220v, even if your tools are wired for 110v, a decent DC (excluding the HF unit) will need a minimum 15A, more likely 20A, 220v circuit. DAMHIKT.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

Ok , so I wouldn't save any watts. Watts = $. I'm keeping what I've got.


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## ADHDan (Aug 17, 2012)

Yeah, I'm not expecting to save any money. I just want to boost my TS and leave room for upgrades, as unlikely as that may be.

For an extra $100-$200 in parts (the 220v wires and fixtures are somewhat pricey), I might as well do it now instead of spending $500 in parts and labor at a later date - especially since this isn't a low-labor project, as it requires fishing line through a garage soffet and some finished walls to get into the part of my house with exposed joists.


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## Woodtodust (May 15, 2013)

I have a Jet contractor saw and I just put in 220 to resolve a problem with the breaker on the motor tripping when using my dado stack. I could only use 2 chippers with the stack which limited the dado I could cut to less than 3/8". CB's work on current draw and Ohm's law does not lie. Drawing half the current allows me to use as many chippers as I need. Also, the saw starts up quicker-no specific value, but it is noticeable and the motor can draw more current when cutting thick wood with less bogging down.I'm happy that I added two 220 circuits.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

*I have a Jet contractor saw and I just put in 220… ....Also, the saw starts up quicker-no specific value, but it is noticeable and the motor can draw more current when cutting thick wood with less bogging down….
*

Every circuit and situation is different, but my experience was very similar to yours.


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## ADHDan (Aug 17, 2012)

I needed to put at least two extra circuits in my shop, anyway. Due to my house's crazy wiring, the last time I ran my table saw it turned off the TV in the middle of So You Think You Can Dance. My wife wasn't pleased.


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

*My wife wasn't pleased.*

and you wondered if that 220v line was worthwhile?


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## ADHDan (Aug 17, 2012)

toolie - In fairness, a separate 110v circuit would have prevented that too. But my wife doesn't need to know that.

"Sweetheart, if you want to be able to watch TV or use other appliances when I'm in the shop, then I need a 220v circuit!"

;-)


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