# My first Bailey



## Kickback (Mar 9, 2011)

Well after having read many postings on hand planes and really wanting to own at least one I finally scored a Stanley Bailey #5. I found it on Craigslist and bought it for $20 + shipping. It seems to be a nice plane but I know nothing about hand planes at this point. The inner body seems to have a dark blue tint or paint. The blade needs to be worked on as the edge is not really what I would call usable. I noticed that the blade was mounted bevel down and was wondering if that is the normal way to have this plane configured? It seems like that is the only way it will work so I assume that it is correct. The bed seems in pretty good shape there is some very minor microscopic pitting but it is smooth and flat. The lateral adjustment lever seems to not be right? It hits the top of the rear handle when you move it side to side to adjust the blade in the mouth. I don't know how to set the plane up so if anyone would be willing to give me some initial steps to get it set right i would greatly appreciate the advice. I plan to clean it up and polish it up and then use it. I have a Tormek sharpener so I will fix the blade up real nice so that it cuts like butter. I can't wait to start using it.


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## BrandonW (Apr 27, 2010)

It looks like you have a later model Bailey (post ww2) with an early 20th century lever cap (I prefer the key hole lever caps to the later kidney shaped ones). Yes, Bevel down is the way to go. I think DonW has some good posts on the clean up process. Yours doesn't look bad at all, so it should be pretty easy to clean up. Just get that blade sharpened and you'll see some nice shaving emerge. Best of luck with it and welcome to the slippery slope.


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## DocBailey (Dec 9, 2011)

Not at all sure (due to photo angles) that you have a Stanley Bailey. The Blade marked "Made in USA" and especially the inverted "U" lateral lever both point to a lesser line (Handyman, Victor or Defiance). One other indicator is the stained hardwood (rather than rosewood) handles. 
Some better shots of the frog (with blade, chipbreaker and lever cap removed) and of casting (fore and aft of front knob) would be helpful.


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## BrandonW (Apr 27, 2010)

This is definitely a Bailey-1) you can see "Bailey" in the sole. 2) post ww2 models moved away from the rosewood totes and knobs. 3) the lateral adjuster style changed to what you see here. 4) the japanning changed from black to burgundy or navy.

The iron might not be original, and the lever cap isn't original to this plane, but it's definitely a late model Stanley Bailey.


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## DocBailey (Dec 9, 2011)

Brandon
I'm afraid you're mixing apples and oranges (and maybe lemons!)
Navy japanning dates to the late 60s, Burgundy even later.
That style lateral adjustment lever would not have been present on a WWII style Stanley/Bailey plane.


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

I agree w/ Brandon. The lever cap and iron are just not original. it has a little frankenplane to it.


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## BrandonW (Apr 27, 2010)

DB, you're right that that style lateral adjuster wouldn't be present on a war time plane. I said this is a post ww2 plane. I have a burgundy bailey #4 that has the same adjuster along with the same tote and knob.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Second (third?) the notion of a 60s-era Bailey, paired with a mongrel cap and iron. Likely no frog adjustment screw (none on my burgundy smoother, either. . ), but a very workable, Made in USA plane. Lots of material out there on fettling (adjusting) planes; I might add that flatting the sole of a jack isn't critical so you might want to bypass that part at first. Good luck!


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## Deycart (Mar 21, 2012)

I would agree with BrandonW and ShaneA. It looks to be a latter model bailey 60's or so because of the blue japanning and some mishmash of lever cap and iron. All told looks very usable! I would also skip on the flattening on the sole as long as the toe"front" heel"back" and front of the throat "front of hole with the blade is" is co-planer. If all those spots line up on a flat edge its good to go don't worry about the minor spots between.


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## DocBailey (Dec 9, 2011)

Brandon -
Yes you did indeed specify that-I had to re-read your post - makes sense to me now.
Despite having literally hundreds of planes (yeah, I have a problem) I'm so used to dealing in Type 19s (1948-61) at the latest, that I am out of my element with these "newer" planes.


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## BrandonW (Apr 27, 2010)

DB, I know what you mean-it doesn't look like the typical vintage Baileys that we're used to seeing, and if I hadn't owned a late model myself, I wouldn't have recognized it.

Still, it's a nice solid plane and my late model #4 has been tuned up nicely and will make some smooth shavings.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

it certainly looks to be parted together. I agree several parts are not original. It will make a great user though. Sharpen it up and let's see some shavings. Careful, the slope gets slippery from here. Planes are like potato chips, ones to many and a hundred ain't enough.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

I bet you can't have just one.


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## RGtools (Feb 18, 2011)

As far as set up is concerned. Adjust the mouth first. Jacks usually are set up to take a heavier cut than most planes so you will want the mouth wide but not so much that the lateral adjuster is hitting the tote. When you sharpen it try to put a healthy curve in the iron…this will make the plane be able to take the meaty shaving (about the thickness of a dime) without the corners digging in.

The rest of setting up a jack is pretty simple.

Here is a good video that explains some of the user points. But there are several out there that say things differently (Including my class)


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I have several #5's. The #5 is considered a jack plane, but to use it as such you want to add a camber to the blade (if it doesn't already have one) and open the mouth like RG suggested.

It can also be tuned as a smoother. In that case you want no camber (or ever so slight of one) and a tight mouth.

And RG's classes are top notch, so they are highly recommended if you want to learn a few things about hand tool use.


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## Kickback (Mar 9, 2011)

I went through some of RG's class posts mainly the plane classes but still don't find any in depth advice on how to setup the plane and adjust it. Specifically several of you have mentioned the size of the mouth how do you adjust the planes mouth size? I also read something about adjusting the the frog? I am going to sharpen the blade tomorrow and i use a Tormek Sharpener which sharpens chisels and planes square and true without any camber. I don't really intend to use the plane for hogging huge amounts of material off anything. I mainly would want to use it for general truing and smoothing so would sharpening it straight and true be fine? And if so what I read leads me to believe that if i want to use it in this fashion then i want the mouth to be quite narrow. So we are back to the sizing of the mouth. Any advice will be very much appreciated. I will also take some pics of the disassembled plane so you can all see the parts up clse and personal. I know some of you said that it didn't have the original parts but when I looked at closely again they all have similar numbers stamped in the individual parts. So this would lead me to believe that it "might" be all original not that it matters at all to me as it doesn't.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

"Tightening the mouth" is a common misnomer as applied to fixed-mouth planes like jacks, because the mouth opening doesn't change. Rather, the frog can move the iron forward and that effectively closes off the mouth opening. Slide the frog forward too much, and shavings can't pass through…

Remove the lever cap, and lift the iron/chipbreaker. You'll see a couple of screw heads in slotted channels; those fasten the frog to the sole. Loosen those and position the frog so that it's leading edge is flush with the back edge of the mouth / there'll be on continuous slope. Tighten everything down and re-assemble. Is the mouth opening wide or somewhat tigh?! Repeat the process untill you're happy, but open for big shavings, narrower for smoothing.

Try straight irons and see. Relax the hard corners, though, in any case.

Hope this helps.


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## Kickback (Mar 9, 2011)

Smitty,
You rock thank you very much that is exactly what I was looking for to get me going. I can usually figure stff out on my own but it is always nice to have a good kick start from someone who knows what they are talking about to get you on the right track.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

anytime!


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## jjw5858 (Apr 11, 2011)

Looks like a real nice user Kickback. Although it gets pretty pricey I can honestly say as far as sharpening your plane blades, DMT Diamond stones will take your plane to a level that is TOO FUN to make shavings with. No worries….get the addiction going first….lol…...diamond stones later….haaaa. I have had some pretty funky plane blades that were decent sharp….and in a half hour I have a blade that makes amazing shavings. Enjoy your first one!


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## BigYin (Oct 14, 2011)

Sharpening-- http://lumberjocks.com/PaulSellers/blog/28099
Restoring-- http://www.majorpanic.com/handplane_restor1.htm
Dating-- http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/pdatechart.pdf
Plane soles flattened-- http://lumberjocks.com/PaulSellers/blog/28306


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## Kickback (Mar 9, 2011)

Well I cleaned her up today only have to sharpen the blade tomorrow then we will try to make some shavings. The plane wasn't in too bad a shape so it only took about 45 min. of cleaning and polishing to get her looking good again. I do have another question? How far should the chip breaker be positioned from the edge of the cutter? And I noticed that the mouth doesn't seem to be square or parallel to the frog feet when I adjust the frog forward one foot seems to protrude past the mouth more than the other. Not sure how much of an issue that is nor do I have any idea how that could be rectified but i did try to make some shavings with it right after cleaning it up without even sharpening it and it did seem to make some shavings although they were not show off shavings and the plane chattered like crazy which I expected due to the condition of the blade edge. I will fire up my Tormek in the morning and put a super nice edge on the cutter and give her a spin afterwards.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Looking fine!

Smoothing, a 1/16th is a decent start. A jack, that or it can be more.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

IF your sharpening it as a smoother, I put the chip break about 1/16" back from the edge. A liitle more is ok. I also polish the end of the chip breaker so the shaving slide over it better.

If your putting a camber on the blade for a jack, you need to move the chip breaker back farther.

As for the frog not being square with the mouth, I would say try it and see how it works. First, did you make sure the frog was flat? If its a small amount and it needs attention, you can file it even. I would test it first. I've noticed some planes act differently than others, and the bottom line is how well it works.


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## Kickback (Mar 9, 2011)

I will have to take some pics of the frog installed and show you what I mean Don W. I polished everything and it all looks like new again. I also said I would post some pics of the individual parts disassembled so here you go. These were taken just before I cleaned it all up and polished everything.


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## Kickback (Mar 9, 2011)

Ok so I got my first Bailey all cleaned up and polished. Then I sharpened the iron on my Tormek. I sharpened it straight with out radiusing the bevel as I would really like to utilize this plane as a smoother not a hogging tool. The first problem I noticed was that the front edges of the frog where the plane iron rides into the mouth were not co-planar to each other. You can see it in this picture:










So I attempted to file the "foot" on the right side even with the left side and I was able to get them reasonably planar to each other but definitely not perfect. But better than they were when i got it. So now the iron sits parallel to the mouth which it did not previously. So now i was ready to take some test cuts with it. The iron was crazy razor sharp from the Tormek session so i was relatively certain it would cut easily. Unfortunately my lack of knowledge of tuning up hand planes reared it's ugly head when I tried to take some cuts. The plane takes far to big of a cut the I am sure I would ever want to take. I tried to adjust the iron so that it was only barely protruding from the mouth but it continued to take too much of a bite. I am not too proud to admit that I have no clue what i am doing with this thing but would really like to learn how to adjust and use this plane as I could really use it a lot. I read another posting and it was mentioned that the poster tuned the chip breaker? I did nothing to the chip breaker so is there something I should have done with it? So I am sheepishly asking for some of the hand plane experts here to guide me through getting this plane shaving like a fine razor. I did lap the sole using the tricks I read here from another member who did some online training videos on lapping the sole using 120/220 grit on a glass plate and a ruler to cant the plane sole slightly in order to soften the edges and that worked quite well. The planes sole was definitely not flat when i started and i was able to flatten it considerably and almost enough to remove all of the Sharpie marks i put on the sole.


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## hhhopks (Nov 22, 2011)

You never mentioned if you adjust the depth adjuster. The round brass ring behind the frog adjust the blade depth position. You should able to spin that to retract and go the opposite to extend. If it is frozen, just spread some WD40 wiggle it back and forth.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Start with the blade retracted so it will not touch the wood. Slowly lower the iron (quarter turns at a time) until it barley makes contact. You may also need to use the lateral adjuster if one side of the iron makes contact first.

I like to polish the end of the chip breaker, and you need to make sure the frog is adjusted forward enough so you can just slide a business card through the opening.


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## Kickback (Mar 9, 2011)

I did adjust the blade depth bit frankly didn't know how far it should protrude beyond the sole. I obviously have it too far and I also did not adjust the frog far enough forward to keep the shavings on the things side. I will play with it today and see if I can get it to shave thinner. Also what is the best method to radius the corners of the plane iron?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

For a smoother I just tilt the blade and jig to one side then the other. I would only use the finishing stone, not your tormek. I don't have a tormek so I'm making an assumption here. You want it slight. You can also just round the corner on the stone.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

The best way to to get your depth of cut is to "sneak up" on it.

Start with it retracted far enough so that it is not cutting at all, then turn the adjusting knob in quarter-turn increments, testing after each turn, until you get there.


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## BubbaIBA (Nov 23, 2011)

"..I don't have a tormek so I'm making an assumption here…"

Yep, that you are . Slight cambers are easy to do on the Tormek polishing wheel by changing pressure on the edges of the blade and using the edge of the wheel.

You should "lap" the frog and receiver (especially after using a file on the frog) using valve grinding compound until the frog and receiver mate, a real PITA kinda like flatting the back of an abused iron.

Best I can tell from your photos you have a Type 20 plane (with an early leaver cap). If you are going to put a lot of effort into rehabbing it, your time might be better spent on a type 12 through a type 15 (1919-1932). By type 20 Stanley planes were getting pretty cheesy. Go to a reputable tool dealer i.e. http://www.hyperkitten.com/ or http://www.supertool.com/ tell them what you want and start with a good base….it will be cheaper in the long run than buying off eBay. I know Bailey pattern planes, I know what to look for and I still end up kissing a few frogs (pun intended) when buying eBay planes.

BTW, my guess is now that you have cleaned 'er up and applied some polish you could ebay 'er for almost enough to pick up a good plane from either Hyperkitten or Superior.


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## Johnnyblot (Mar 2, 2012)

Hi- following on from what the guys above are saying-
I have a TORMEK and only use it to put the primary 25 deg. bevel onto the plane iron [or chisel]. After that I move onto my Jap Waterstones. It does not matter what stones you use or prefer but as Don W said above you should use a honing guide like this with the guide you can set your honing angle to whatever you prefer, [I use 32 degrees, using superfine stone]. The link above shows a fellow LJ using the Eclipse type honing guide. They are still made as cheapo versions [approx.$20]- this guide is one of the cheapest and best tool I have ever bought, although I did have to modify it slightly by filing off some paint,[ similar to this from Lie Nielsen ] Because this honing guide can be used for plane irons and chisels it will do for nearly all your sharpening. Also, because it has a narrow wheel you can use this to your advantage [as Don W points out] by slightly rocking your plane blade-while sharpening- applying pressure at the edges- one at a time to put a slight curve onto the blade. Typically I have 0.2mm curve on my smoothing blades.
When the blade is back in the plane- back the blade off so there is *no* *cutting. Then turn it over- hold it by the front knob- sight down the sole and turn the blade adjuster until the blade starts to appear through the mouth. Check that it is coming through evenly- it probably is not at this point. So use the lateral adjuster so that the blade is equal. once you've got it equal, back it off again till it will not cut- then dial it out again until it starts cutting again and giving fine shavings. I hope this is of help-
Cheers,

John.


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## ShipWreck (Feb 16, 2008)

Nice work Kickback. Nice to see other new guys like me joining the old school.

Only suggestion that I can offer is to learn sharpening freehand. No power or jigs needed. It can be a little frustrating at first, but is well worth the effort.


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