# So confused on what lumber to use for a patio cover



## pdxrealtor

I think I've reached the paralysis by over-analysis stage.

I'm going to build a patio cover. I was going to use an appearance grade PT wood for the posts and beam, a construction grade PT for the ledger board, and premium standard and better select douglas fir dimensional for the rafters.

Then I got to thinking nothing would match (I plan to do a clear or semi-transparent stain).

Now I'm wondering if I can use the premium standard and better select doug. fir on everything, and seal it before staining, or if I should move to the appearance grade PT lumber for everything.

Help please!

And on a side note…. what the hell is the official name for PT wood with the perforations, and the official name for the PT wood without the perforations? I can't find it on google to save my life…... I'd like to read about the differences but without the official name I can't do a google search that returns anything applicable to what I'm looking for.


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## josephf

this is probable a reginal thing . i have some advice though .i am in the trades and constantly get all confused with all the products and names . generally this info i can get from the lumber yard . i forget often ,just happens .i ,aynot work with a particular product for months or years and i just do not recall .
next -i dark stained a project awhile back just to get a match yet on one i am doing now i have two different stains on purpose .an exterior set of redwood stairs with some dark and some more natural stained moldings . anyhow a combination can really look nice .to much of one thing is just boring .
what ever you do you will love it .


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## MrUnix

Are you talking about T1-11 Plywood?

Cheers,
Brad


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## pdxrealtor

^^ I'm talking about 2×4s and 4×4s only


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## rustfever

First, rot resistant or Pressure Treated lumber is necessary if it will be in contact with concrete. If your posts are to rest on concrete, try laying a short piece of Redwood [which is rot resistant] or PT material horizontally on the bottom of the post. If your posts are to be 4×4 [actually 3.5" x 3.5"] use another peice of redwood 2" x4" cut to 3.5" long and put it under the post. Predrill nails or, if you are using a 'Simpson Post Anchor, simply set under the post before attaching to the anchor.

Next, use DF #1 for posts. #1 material is much better in appearance than is S & B grade and is usually much straighter and has fewer defects, knots, and is never 3 cornered as is S & B [Standard and Better]

Use the same lumber for ledgers and joist. If the joists and ledger are to be seen, then by all means use selected DF#1 for these items also.

No PT material will take a decent stain. It is also difficult to like the perforations of that type material even when painted.


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## firefighterontheside

For my covered deck I used pt yellow pine for the last rafter at each end and for the beams that the rafters sit in. Everything else is #2 yellow pine regular. I think it looks fine that they don't match. I don't notice. For my posts I used eastern red cedar 5×5's. I intend to paint the rafters some day.


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## pdxrealtor

Thanks for that info.

I will be using the Simpson adjustable post anchors.

There is PT that does not have the perforations, but it is much more expensive than the doug. fir.

I just looked at the HD website and they only have #2 & Better Kiln-Dried Douglas Fir Lumber. No number 1.


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## pdxrealtor

Thanks Firefighter…... home depot doesn't have 5×5 material (at least on their website) or 4×6, 4×8, etc. Lowes seem to have all of those.

So I now that I know I can use the doug fir all around without issue, IF I treat and stain it. 
OR 
I could use a non-perforated PT lumber all around for a no-maintenance deal.

Does this sound correct?


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## MrUnix

I'm confused.. perforated? I've built quite a few patio covers/roofs but have no clue as to what you mean by perforated lumber.. maybe it's just the meds 

Cheers,
Brad


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## pdxrealtor

^^ lol…. there in lies my problem. I have no idea what the 'proper' name for the different types of PT lumber are.

One type has tons of tiny perforations (look like staple holes) and another type have NO perforations and are much less of an eye sore.


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## firefighterontheside

Yeah, I had the 5×5's made at a local sawmill. It was just the right size and nice to look at.


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## BurtC

All is Western Red Cedar except the manufactured beams, which are Alaskan Yellow Cedar.
All joints are box joints (no metal brackets) and secored with lumber locks.


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## pdxrealtor

^^ Very nice! What's the length of that thing? What's the size of the beam.


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## BurtC

It is 40' long x 16'-12' along home ledger. Beam is 16" x 6".
Between the 12×2 rails are louvered type panels 4-5' long, that rest on cleats.


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## Buckethead

I'm confused. Is it an open arbor, or a roof with exposed rafters and roof decking?

If it's an arbor where all the lumber will be exposed to weather, use PT, cedar, redwood, white oak or another rot resistant lumber. (I don't believe Douglas fir is well suited to being exposed to weather.)

If it is a roof, then any wood you wish, with PT for the posts.


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## pdxrealtor

So… there is about a 75.00 difference between going with #2 or better kiln dried doug fir(cheaper) vs. going with #1 or better outdoor select pressure treated wood.

This brings up the question of sealing the doug fir. The exposed pieces, posts/beam/outer rafters/ledger board should be treated and stained. Might as well do the middle rafters if I'm doing all of the those other pieces, right?

Stain and sealer will add up very close to 75.00. Throw in the prep time and I have to ask, is it really worth it to go with the doug fir?

On top of that add in the maintenance of the sealed and stained doug fir over time vs. the almost no maintenance PT option.

Any input?


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## pdxrealtor

Buckethead- there will be a clear polycarb. roof over the top.


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## Buckethead

If this is under a roof, it can be left untreated. Poly would certainly be sufficient. PT at the same cost as finished fir seems like a no brainer. It will last the lifetime of the house, saves a step (time is money) and looks fine as is.

Is the roof sheathing going to be plywood? OSB? T111?


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## pdxrealtor

No sheathing - It's a clear polycarbonate


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## Buckethead

Ahhh. So UV, over time, is going to affect whatever lumber you use (fading, darkening). For some reason I was stuck on polyurethane as a wood finish rather than a polycarbonate sheathing.

Living in Florida, I would only consider that for a greenhouse. Too hot for that here.


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## pdxrealtor

My patio faces west with some southern exposure, but the southern exposure is heavily shaded by large evergreens. This cover is more for rain protection while sitting in the hot tub than anything else.


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## MrUnix

*Living in Florida, I would only consider that for a greenhouse. Too hot for that here.*

Same here (well, in Miami before I moved to central FL).. the last patio roof I did was replacing one that was originally made out of T&G (ripped out by a hurricane).. replaced it with T1-11 so it had kind of the same look. Roughly 110 X 16 feet, so T&G would have been really expensive. Only finish used was stain with paint on the outsides that were exposed to weather. Since it was out of the elements, PT wasn't required and the outside edges were painted to match the trim color of the house.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: I have never seen that PT stuff with the holes before.. ever.


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## pdxrealtor

Still, even if I just stain it adds a ton of maintenance vs. a PT built structure which if built with the #1 select should look good forever with minimal maintenance. I'm thinking every other year clear coat/water proofing type deal. Quick and clear application so no taping or prepping.

The more I talk this out the more I"m leaning towards the PT and extra 75.00 bucks.


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## alittleoff

The only time I've ever seen those perforations on treated lumber was on landscape timbers. I've never seen it on 2×4 or 4×4 lumber. I was looking at some timbers I bought last week and think it was put on them by running them over a metal chain type conveyor when sawing or stacking them. Some of the landscape timbers were perforated that way half way down the length and others had only spots of it along the length on one side only.
Gerald


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## runswithscissors

Check the little plastic tags stapled at the ends of the PT timbers. They will indicate whether they are suitable for ground contact. I bought 4×4s from HD, got them home and discovered they had "not suitable for ground contact" tags on them. Returned them, and found the ones I needed at Lowes. What the big box stores carry may vary from time to time, so it pays to check them out wherever you buy them.

I had one (so far) fence post rot out on me, and I suspect I had the wrong "flavor."

I can't tell you which is better for your use, but just wanted to make you aware. Oh, the perforations are so the preservative chemicals can penetrate deep into the wood. If there are no perfs, I would assume the preservative doesn't go deep. In fact, in some cases (such as "cherry toned" landscape timers), I suspect it is nothing more than a stain.


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## Hermit

I don't know where you live but any wood you use that is not going to get painted will need maintenance every other year. it's a lot of work to maintain once it's built. If you're dead set on wood I would go all redwood. Resistant to rot, termites and accepts stains/sealers well. Now that I'm older the last thing I want to do is spend time maintaining a patio cover. I just had an aluminum patio cover installed last summer. Only way to go IMO. No maintenance ever, will not fade, chip, peel etc. 20 year warranty, available in many colors. Depending on where you are it runs about $10 a square foot. a little pricy but worth never having to touch it.


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## a1Jim

pd
I'm a contractor of 25+ years and have built many decks and deck covers. It seems to me your over complicating this build.As an earlier person who commented said, everything not in contact with the ground or concrete can be non pt wood.This is pretty basic construction,the difference between #1 and #2 lumber is how it is graded at the mill.If you take your time selecting your wood you can select the best of the #2 material and have almost identical material as that graded as #1. I would not use a semi-clear stain ,I would use a solid body stain,it last longer and in my opinion looks better too. As far as the wood for your post goes,depending on your covers height most of the time 4×4s will do the job fine as long as you have placed under you beam frequently enough for proper support,Western red cedar will work on the 4×4 post and stain up nicely. I would pre-stain all of your lumber before you build you're over,then all you have to do is touch up scuffs and cut ends when it's complete. If you have not done so already it would be a good idea to check with your local building department to see if you design meets code and if you need a permit. As far as pressure treated material goes it differs in different parts of the country,in the north-west we have perforated and non-perforated versions but many states only carry the non-perforated version ,many times out of totally different species of than in my area. When installing the polycarbonate roofing make sure you use the rubber gasket screws (usually square head) to fasten it down not the nails,screws can be adjusted much easier for a proper seal. many times with this type of roofing, it's best to use skip sheathing(see below) for a more solid connection. Folks forget that not only does a roof have to be waterproof but it has to withstand snow and high winds.


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## Joel_B

Western Red Cedar is naturally rot resistant and can look really nice stained.
It is also lighter and easier to work with than DF.
Where I live its easy to get in various grades.
Redwood has similar properties.
Its probably going to cost a lot more than the crap lumber at HD and Lowes.


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## a1Jim

Joel
I guess "a lot more" is relative. In my area a 4×4 10' Doug fir cost about $14 the same in clear cedar is about $26,percentage wise it's a lot more, but overall if the roof has 4 post it's only 48 difference.


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## pdxrealtor

> I don t know where you live but any wood you use that is not going to get painted will need maintenance every other year. it s a lot of work to maintain once it s built. If you re dead set on wood I would go all redwood. Resistant to rot, termites and accepts stains/sealers well. Now that I m older the last thing I want to do is spend time maintaining a patio cover. I just had an aluminum patio cover installed last summer. Only way to go IMO. No maintenance ever, will not fade, chip, peel etc. 20 year warranty, available in many colors. Depending on where you are it runs about $10 a square foot. a little pricy but worth never having to touch it.
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Nice looking cover. I was debating doing a fascia or open rafter design, and yours is a very nice medium. Is that just simple blocking between rafters or did your installer get more crafty?

RE: the roof. I'm the exact same way. Older I'm getting the more I'm thinking about how I can make things less maintenance. Check out this polycarbonate material -

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Suntuf-26-in-x-8-ft-Clear-Polycarbonate-Roofing-Panel-101697/100021329?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053

I have it on a shed at another home and it's held up to falling branches very well. If it gets a little green I get up there with a 3k psi power washer and clean it.

I like the light it lets through. On the current patio cover I'm working on it's basically to cover a hot tub and a barbecue. I really want the light and the visibility at night to see the sky.


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## pdxrealtor

> pd
> I m a contractor of 25+ years and have built many decks and deck covers. It seems to me your over complicating this build.As an earlier person who commented said, everything not in contact with the ground or concrete can be non pt wood.This is pretty basic construction,the difference between #1 and #2 lumber is how it is graded at the mill.If you take your time selecting your wood you can select the best of the #2 material and have almost identical material as that graded as #1. I would not use a semi-clear stain ,I would use a solid body stain,it last longer and in my opinion looks better too. As far as the wood for your post goes,depending on your covers height most of the time 4×4s will do the job fine as long as you have placed under you beam frequently enough for proper support,Western red cedar will work on the 4×4 post and stain up nicely. I would pre-stain all of your lumber before you build you re over,then all you have to do is touch up scuffs and cut ends when it s complete. If you have not done so already it would be a good idea to check with your local building department to see if you design meets code and if you need a permit. As far as pressure treated material goes it differs in different parts of the country,in the north-west we have perforated and non-perforated versions but many states only carry the non-perforated version ,many times out of totally different species of than in my area. When installing the polycarbonate roofing make sure you use the rubber gasket screws (usually square head) to fasten it down not the nails,screws can be adjusted much easier for a proper seal. many times with this type of roofing, it s best to use skip sheathing(see below) for a more solid connection. Folks forget that not only does a roof have to be waterproof but it has to withstand snow and high winds.
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Thanks for chiming in Jim. I am certainly over-complicating things. More so the wood selection vs. the build. 

My understanding is the doug fir needs sealed and stained if outdoors, ground contact or not. Being a contractor of 25 years I think you'd agree that all the wood will be exposed to the elements regardless of being posts or the center most rafter under the cover.

It is also my understanding that the PT lumber I'm looking at (see below links) needs very minimal attention if any. I was thinking a light clear coat water sealer just to be safe. But I don't think that is even needed, correct me if I'm wrong.

As far as aesthetics the PT wood linked below is a #1 grade with a cedar tone to it. I *think *I can be happy with that as a nice trade off to for very low maintenance.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-2-in-x-6-in-x-12-ft-Outdoor-Select-Pressure-Treated-Lumber-388520/202060477?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053#product_description

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-4-in-x-4-in-x-8-ft-Outdoor-Select-Pressure-Treated-Timber-415747/100044430?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053

I plan to use skip sheathing. Not sure if I will use a 1×4 or the specific strips made for the corrugated roofing and I have a box of left over screws with rubber gaskets from my shed. They really are 'the' screw to use for this stuff.

Open to feedback.


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## MrUnix

Not sure why you think you need to do yearly maintenance.. I've lived in my current place for over 10 years and haven't touched the wooden patio (stained), and the stained wood patio I built down south was the same. As long as it's covered and not directly exposed to the weather, it should be fine for decades.. the posts supporting the structure, mabye, but not the rafters and beams. Heck, I have pole barns that were built 50 years ago and they look as good as when they were first built, and I've never felt the need to do any maintenance on them (no PT used except for the poles). Well, maybe an occasional sweep to get rid of the spider webs every 10 years or so 

Cheers,
Brad


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## a1Jim

Pd
Like Brad says material under the roof does not need yearly maintenance if it were a deck surface possibly but not under your roof.If you stain it before you put it together you should get a good 8-10 years before you have to stain it again. A word of caution, the folks at box stores,hardware store and even DIY shows don't always know what they're talking about.Many of them have never done the operation or used the material there telling how to use or how it preforms. I'm a over kill guy when it comes to using pressure treated material but it is totally unnecessary to use it under your roof cover,stained fir will do the job fine if you stain or paint it to start with. In my experience woods like "outdoor wood" does not meet the standards of other Pressure treated woods and many times twist and bows,probably because the short cut the kiln drying before pressure treating and the use different varieties of wood even though the call it fir.
I hope it comes together well for you no matter what route you take.

NOW GET BUILDING Ha Ha


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## Hermit

pdxrealtor….I had this aluminum cover built for a number of reasons. I wanted a water tight roof so my furniture doesn't get wet, to cover over my hot tub as well so I can sit in it when it's raining, to be able to bbq in the winter when it's raining and I and the warden love the sound of rain on a metal roof, The rafter tails you see are fake and only for looks, to make it look like real rafter tails. You cant walk on this type of roof but they do make a more expensive/upgrade roof with insulation (In case you want to close it in) that you can walk on, install ceiling fans, lights etc, concealed within the roof.

As I said, I don't know where you live, but here in the Sacramento Valley it gets HOT and for long periods of time. Stain fades in a short amount of time. My old redwood patio cover had to be restained every other year to achieve the appearance that I wanted it to, not because I had to.


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