# "Made in China" plywood



## WoodshopJoe (Jun 22, 2009)

OK, I don't vent much and usually keep my emotions in check but this really burns me. I went to Home Depot this evening to get a couple sheets of Baltic Birch plywood. I needed just two 4×8 sheets. I get to the bin where they have it and they had about 30 sheets in the bin and it's already been picked through entirely. Not being the one to make a fuss I started to pull out sheets to see what I could find. After pulling out 6 sheets of crap is when I started getting aggravated. Every sheet had pink filler in the holes and cracks in the veneer. The veneer is so thin you can literally see the glue through the veneer. I mean come on, they want $40.00 a sheet for that!!! What a joke. I did find one decent sheet and took that it but that will be the last time I go there for plywood of any kind, I'll just get it through my lumber supplier. Why can't our American owned stores supply us with decent American or Canadian made plywood? I would be willing to pay the few dollars more for decent material. I don't know how they cut that veneer so thin, it's thinner than paper!!!

Alright I'm done, on to better things.


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## FirehouseWoodworking (Jun 9, 2009)

Joe,

You make good points here. I'm sure most, if not all, of us have felt that same frustration.

If I may respectfully make a suggestion, one that we should ALL practice?

When one finds him- or herself in this same situation, take a few minutes and go to the courtesy desk. Ask for the duty manager and calmly explain your displeasure. Don't take it out on that manager. Not even a store or regional manager can do anything about their stock. That's top driven from corporate. But if they're worth their salt, they'll listen. And if they're really worthwhile, they'll pass your comments up the line.

Then ask them for a comment card, or if they don't have a comment card, the address for complaints. Or you could even ask for the name and mailing address of the regional manager. Then take the time to voice your concerns and complaints without emotion. If the missiff is scalding, it will be dismissed as just another crackpot. But if it is professional and sincere, you would be surprised how much potential impact it will have.

I was told by regional managers (of both Home Depot and Lowe's, as I've worked for both) that three comments or complaints on the same topic from the same store or region raises a red flag. Management stands up and takes notice. I would guess that Menards is probably much the same.

Ladies and gentlemen, we can influence what the big box carries. It takes a little effort on our part, though by no means a great effort. But if we don't choose to take action, we are doomed, as the philosophers have reminded us, "to forever curse the darkness."

Okay. I'll step down off my soapbox now.

But first I'll light a candle instead of cursing the darkness.

Cheers!


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## LarryDNJR (Dec 6, 2009)

I totally agree with Dave. It is just like in any situation be it social, consumer related or what not you or someone needs to take a stand. Doing so as he said in a respectfully polite manner and using tact will do us all good in the long run. When we sit back and don't speak out is when we either get taking advantage of or things get totally out of hand.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

As long as there are enough people who don't know any better so HD and Lowes can keep moving that garbage, it will not change. When they get stuck with dead stock, they will do something about it.


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## Waldschrat (Dec 29, 2008)

*Dave *has a great point! If enough people complain then it should help get noticed by the management and hopefully move to change something.

I have a great idea, we should have a link, a link right here on Lumberjocks. A link that lists Local wood suppliers and Lumber yards so that people can easily see who is, or where is the next closest non-chain, local owned lumber and hardware supplier. If you are willing or we are willing to pay a bit more for quality then these small operations will be supported and not these large corperations. I bet that people would be suprised, lumber may not be as cheap, but I bet the quality and service is way better at the small saw mill than at the "big box store." The small guy can not afford to provide poor goods, but the big companies can. They can outlive the small companies.

Anyway, back to the link thing… it could listed what they carry and if its FSC certified or where the wood is comming from.

I do not currently live in the US but America is supposed to be about the rooting for the underdog right? I buy from local lumber yards every oportunity that I have. Hardware too, if its local I try that first, service and quality are usually much better.


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## ND2ELK (Jan 25, 2008)

Any people near central Illinois might be interested in this supplier: I get all my hardwood and plywood from Pekin Hardwoods near Peorea, Illinois. They have a quality product at a fair price. If you buy in quanity you get a discount. Call Kathy Brawner 309-642-6102. I totally agree that the China plywood is crap and we should complain! The Wooworkers Shop is also located there that deals in all the major machines and tools. I bought all my equipment from them.

God Bless
tom


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## dfletcher (Jan 14, 2010)

I have written letters to Lowes about some things, did it very professionally and polite. Not only was the matter taken care of, they also sent me an apology letter with a $25 gift card, for my inconvenience.

I don't know as that is the usual and I don't think we should complain to get free gift cards, but that just shows you that they do listen, they want our business, so if enough send in complaints that are not whiny, they will deem them as credible and change will begin.


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## EEngineer (Jul 4, 2008)

With all due respect, Firehouse, it won't change a damned thing!

The last time I bought plywood at HD (and I do mean the last time), the plys separated on the way home! When I tried to return it, I was told that they didn't warranty foreign plywood! They didn't even want to give me my money back for obviously defective product. I got my money back but it took escalation up to the manager.

It isn't just plywood, either. I recently installed a new steam plant in my house. Most of the plumbing came from a contractor supply house. Good Wards, made in the USA, stuff. When it came time to do the water supply line, I figured what the hell and bought some 1/2" copper pipe and a 1/2" union from HD; it was convenient. Cheap Chinese junk! I could not get the union to seal! I went back to the contractor supply house and paid more for an American fitting.

All this talk about cheaper foreign goods is a crock! If they would accept the same ******************** quality from USA manufacturers that they get from China, then, hell yes, we could compete!


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## closetguy (Sep 29, 2007)

I think you would be paying more than "a few dollars more" if HD carried American made plywood. If you are that concerned about the quality of the wood, you should be buying from a lumber supplier, where you have a choice of grades, rather than a DIY store.


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## sparky52 (Feb 17, 2010)

I don't know about where you all are from but here in central California I would estimate the 60 to 70 percent of Lowes and Home Depots customer base does not speak English as there first language. They don't know any better or care about quality. I go to the local hardwood supplier when I need quality product.


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## GFYS (Nov 23, 2008)

1/3 to 1/2 ???? whew!


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

It's always been a mystery to me why people expect high quality materials at big box prices. Their business is selling large volumes of low cost material to a large customer base (can we say Wal-Mart?). It works for many situations, but it's unrealistic to expect to get high quality plywood for $40 (or less) per sheet. I'm sure that the big boxes would gladly carry high quality ply, but it wouldn't be selling for $40/sheet - and they probably wouldn't move the volume necessary to fit their business model.

Would you complain about a KIA dealer not selling BMW quality cars at KIA prices??

TANSTAAFL!!


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

*Bring money…*

Good post.


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## NathanAllen (Oct 16, 2009)

Menards is a great option if you have one in your area. They do carry the C3 & C4 grade import plywood, but they also stock A-C grade US manufactured ply. Some of that is carried as regular stock, some is special order.

Also, if you go to their racks and see only warps and splinters talk to the special order desk, generally Menards cares about the quality of their lumber and you'll be able to special order the common types.


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## LarryDNJR (Dec 6, 2009)

I like the idea of listing reliable wood suppliers in our areas. I am trying to find one in Columbus, OH. Anyone have any good ideas? I checked out this one place called Smith Dodson Lumber & Millwork Co: Retail Sales on Colton Rd and boy was it a joke. I actually had my hopes on going in there considering what I've heard in the past. They didn't have any wood. They did however had a bunch of doors and windows and some OLD packaged drill bits, saw blades and a bunch of misc boxes of screws/nails to grab from. They guy had some excuse that they don't have much right now because they are changing things around. Looked to me like its been baron for a while. Guessing their focus is mostly on siding/decking/door sales etc. Anyways so long story short I don't recommend there at least not right now.  Any one else have good wood supplier in the Columbus or local area?


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## DaveP (May 6, 2008)

Larry,

Check out this thread for Lumber suppliers in Central Ohio.

http://lumberjocks.com/Biscuit/blog/13813


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## Waldschrat (Dec 29, 2008)

Ok I get the feeling that it would be welcome to have some sort of map of the US and small "non-bigbox" lumber mills that are hopefully family run and not chains, and where one could click on a state or a city and pops up mills in an certian radius, with their phone numbers or websites.

Lets ask martin… What do you guys think?


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## WoodshopJoe (Jun 22, 2009)

I know what you are saying about the local mills and all that, but www.woodfinder.com has been working on this for a while. Even so, at least in my area, there aren't too many mills/lumber suppliers listed on that site. You need a way to contact them to let them know about the listing opportunity and who is going to take the time to do that? I like the idea but logistically speaking it is a fairly tall order. But, now that I think of it, WE the woodworkers could make list on this site for the mills as our own personal resource/directory that would be available to all, now that would be cool. Then combined with your Waldschrat's map idea it would be a great little application. Plus we would be helping out the local mills. What do you think of that idea? We all know who we use for material so if we made the list it would be a great resource.


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## toddc (Mar 6, 2007)

I have never seen true baltic birch in the big box stores.

I buy it from the local cabinet shop suppliers and it is no more expensive than the garbage at the chain stores.


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## Padre (Nov 5, 2008)

Big box stores are there to make money for themselves and the stockholders, period. If they can sell $40 a sheet crap, which they do by the millions, then they have done just what they are supposed to do: make money for themselves and the stockholders.

As consumers we have a choice: buy quality and pay for that, or buy cheap and pay for that. In my humble opinion, you can complain to all of the big box stores all you want and there won't be any changes in their attitude or their purpose: to make money for themselves and the stockholders.


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

If you stand around HD or Lowes in the morning you will see the volume customers of plywood. They are usually the roofers and construction guys that are going to cover it with something else before it is done. They only want the minimal price and it serves their purpose. They buy by the pallet on commercial trucks or trailers.

If you want a better quality then you need a real plywood or lumber store. My local HD has birch plywood for $39.95 a sheet and my local real plywood shop has baltic birch for $59.95 a sheet. Plywood shop also has 3/4 V/C B-2 "Import" for $32.95 a sheet. No comparison in which one you would need for a cabinet carcass or anything a human hand will eventually touch. BTW, my local HD tags theirs as "domestic" so I guess you don't need China to make junk.

My thought is that the different sources exist for different needs. I stop at McD's for lunch several days a week, but wouldn't consider them for catering my next family gathering.

Steve.


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## JJohnston (May 22, 2009)

I would only buy plywood and solid stock from my local good-quality suppliers, but I commute an hour to and from work in another city, five days a week, and the good stores are only open M-F, 8-5. Even if they were open for just an hour on Saturday, I could take advantage of it. I encountered the same problem when I got my dust collection duct & fittings.


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## LarryDNJR (Dec 6, 2009)

Popular Woodworking appears to be out of Cincinnati.

From that one thread that was posted I see a company out of Washington Courthouse that isn't to far away. That might be one worth checking out. We do have a Woodwerks in Columbus, I've only stopped in there briefly just to look around may have to good look again.


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## captjamie (Feb 17, 2010)

I heard this on the radio a few weeks ago-
The top two American compaines that import the most goods from China:
1. Wal-mart- no suprise there

2. Home Depot- I was surprised at this one, but not any more, after a closer look at a lot of their goods.
We do live in a gobal economy, like it or not, but can still choose who we spend our money with.


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

I have found for sheet goods, McCoys and our various local Ace Hardware dealers with lumber yards tend to keep good quality birch, oak, and other misc plywoods in stock. And to be honest, the stuff we are getting from Home Depot isn't bad at all. HOWEVER, my local Home Depot carries U.S. sourced plywood… (I believe the markings on the stacks are Georgia Pacific…)


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## rhett (May 11, 2008)

I but Columbia Purebond. American made and quality stuff. Even the "shop" grade ply is top notch. They are also smart enough to produce 48.5×96.5 sized sheets. I buy mostly pre-finished maple ply and here in KY I am getting finished 2 sides for roughly $55 a sheet. Unfinished birch poplar core goes for around $35.


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

Nathanallen or someone - can you explain the grading scheme for plywood in another post in forums?

Might clear up some of this and I don't fully understand them.

Steve.


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## mark88 (Jun 8, 2009)

thk god all we have in my area is CDN plywoods…its printed on every sheet you get whether its in HD, lowes, rona, or home hardware. Made in Canada. I wouldn't be taking anything from the other side of the planet anyday…can or us thats it


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## closetguy (Sep 29, 2007)

SteveMI, basically plywood is graded from A to D with A being the best. The number following the letter denotes the number of quality sides. For example A1 means that one side will be near perfect, with no plugs and the back side will be a lesser quality, but still good because it is "A" grade. A2 would mean that both sides are perfect. A1/VC means it has a veneer core as opposed to LC which is lumber core. C and D are pretty much paint grade. With birch plywood you have B (no plugs) and BB which allows some plugs. This is all interior stuff. I think exterior plywood is all C or lower quality.

The best thing to do is go to a lumber supplier and look at the grades they have available and select the one appropriate to your project. This is much simpler than guessing at grades, or relying on someone's grade perception.


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## jussdandy (Aug 14, 2009)

ok this is what I do for a living, I have Import (china) or domestic in most species, I sell to home owners to professonal, The import sells probally 5 to 1 over the domestic, I get asked a lot, whats the differance and the truthfull answer is the core , Import core sucks, a good poplar core is my favorite but It does cost more. I let the cust deciede which one he or she wants. my boss would not carry import core for years but we HAVE to sell what the customer wants or we go under. 
I have a piece at the shop I need to take a pic of and post, its a piece of 18mm c birch with a razor knife pressed between the plys, my customer cut through this knife on both ends. totally trashed a good blade


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## stevepeterson (Dec 17, 2009)

Many of the big stores have a pricing model where the negotiate a certain price with the vendors. The contract often has a declining price structure (and increasing volumes). The vendor has to agree to the contract if they want the business. The only way they can stay in business after a few years is to cut their costs to the bare mniimum.

We are seeing the results of this model when the veneers are so thin that you can see the glue. It will keep getting worse as long as people keep buying it.


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## BryceVTR250 (Mar 16, 2010)

You could Create a Google map with your local lumber suppliers. rate them on quality, Variety, Price and Customer service. maybe one map per state.

I live in CT and just took a trip up to the CT Hardwood lumber Group store. Wow a lot of wood! their prices seem comparable to other prices i have seen online.

I stoped at lowes on the way home and looked at the birch ply and it was garbage in comparison.


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## Jim Jakosh (Nov 24, 2009)

Get your plywood at Menards. I don't know where it is made, but it is good cabinet quality. You still have to sort through for grain pattern. I have found rotary cut oak and I skip that stuff to get flat cut veneer on the plywood I buy. I like the sales people and the product layout at Menards much better than Home Despot, too.


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## surfin2 (Oct 24, 2009)

I noticed Normy Boy wasn't mentioned at all… He uses the best of the best plywood out and never mentions where he got it or what something of that caliber of wood would cost, but he can't spit it out fast enough that you can get the same thing at your local Home center. Of all the plywood that he uses, none of it can you get at my local Home centers. I never even knew that they sold prefinished plywood. All the different grades of cabinet grade plywood they don't even stock… I wonder if what ever he's smokin they sell at your local Home center or is he getting for Delta/Porter Cable…


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## Michael121 (Jun 30, 2008)

Larry in Cincinnati we have Hardwood Lumber and More. They have the ply they have right now some nice Cherry at 12 feet long or so and 2 3/4 thick and 8 inches wide vaccumn dried. They sell Jet and Fein tools.

They even have classes on finishing and carving etc….They are located in Milford Ohio.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

I have never heard Norm mention local hbome centers on Yankee WS. I think that is in That Old Shack ;-))


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## surfin2 (Oct 24, 2009)

Sounds to me like I have to move to another state… Our tool/machinery selection sucks so does our lumber…


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## surfin2 (Oct 24, 2009)

These contractors are making a killing, they put 2 houses on a lot that one house should go…
The majority of them buy from HD cause its harder ti get credit at Lowes…
Then they charge an arm and a 2 legs for the house, the worst part of is they can't sell them fast enough…


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## Dez (Mar 28, 2007)

I did not know that Home Depot had started to carry "BALTIC BIRCH"!
I/2" "Birch" yes.
"Baltic Birth" NO


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## jerryz (Jun 4, 2009)

Well, I understand your aggravation, but it seems that not all HD use the same suppliers, here in Southern FL my local home depot does not carry any chinese stuff any more, the 3/4" are Giorgia Pacific and the 1/2" they have GP and some material from South America, so the stuff I have bought from them was of good quality.

I would go to the service desk and make a complaint there letting them know that I will not buy garbage and also make a call to the corporate office and complain you could not purchase a decent product at your store.
It worked for us down here…...


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

I have seen a local mill's stamp on some lumber here.


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