# My first REAL dovetails (sort of)



## jtm (Dec 2, 2013)

So I've cut a bunch of dovetails before, but usually in a half-hearted manner.

I have a cheap Craftsman gents saw and a Rockler Japanese pull saw. But this week I decided to buy one of the Veritas dovetail saws.

What a world of difference. It's so much easier (for me anyway) to make a straight cut with the Veritas.

So to try it out, instead of just two simple pins, I decided to do 5. (knowing full well that the difficulty increases with each additional pin).

I think it came out pretty well. I can't get over how awesome this saw feels.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

Very impressive….


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## GJP60 (Jan 12, 2010)

Nice and tight. As a next step you might consider cutting very narrow pins, so that the tops of the tails are just a kerf width apart. 
Cheers


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Very nice.

Doesn't it make you feel good, too, knowing YOU did it, not a machine?


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I also like the veritas hand saws. You did a fine job on those dovetails.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

I agree those are really nice looking dovetails.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Beautiful dovetails jtm!


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## AandCstyle (Mar 21, 2012)

Geez, now I have to add another LV tool to my "wish list".


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## theoldfart (Sep 9, 2011)

The saw helped I'm sure but it's your skills that turned out those dovetails and they are excellent. Congratulations. Next up is a project using those skills, good luck and again nice job.


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

Look good to me. Fantastic job, and I like the contrasting woods.


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## gdrwx (Jan 31, 2014)

ya I've been learning with a gents saw and i don't like the feel-100 bucks or so looks well worth it


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## jtm (Dec 2, 2013)

> ya I ve been learning with a gents saw and i don t like the feel-100 bucks or so looks well worth it
> 
> - gdrwx


Woodcraft has the Veritas.

Use a 10% coupon and get it for less than $60.


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## TheTurtleCarpenter (Jun 25, 2015)

Good work JTM, Now put that to use in this contest. The cutoff date for entry is next Friday evening. Jeff
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/121794


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## BubbaIBA (Nov 23, 2011)

> Nice and tight. As a next step you might consider cutting very narrow pins, so that the tops of the tails are just a kerf width apart.
> Cheers
> 
> - Glen Peterson


Why? Does a pin that narrow bring anything to the table other than a style affection? Style comes and goes, good work is forever.

ken


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Bubba, the narrow pins are just for style and have been around for a long time. 
They are considered a mark of fine craftsmanship old makers used them to set their work apart.


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## BubbaIBA (Nov 23, 2011)

> Bubba, the narrow pins are just for style and have been around for a long time.
> They are considered a mark of fine craftsmanship old makers used them to set their work apart.
> 
> - rwe2156


Best I can tell, unless you consider Allen Peters (died 2009) an "old maker", London Pattern dovetails are a recent style. The history of skinny pins aka London Pattern dovetails is hard to track down but most mentions of London pattern dovetails credit Alan Peters with popularizing the style. Rob Cosman was a student of Alan Peters' and my guess is he brought the style across the pond.

Like I posted, styles change, what looks good today may look silly tomorrow. BTW, I remember Nehru jackets, bell bottom pants, and avocado appliances.

ken


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## TheTurtleCarpenter (Jun 25, 2015)

I had a Nehru jacket and a CPO too.


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## theoldfart (Sep 9, 2011)

^ditto here (bell bottoms were plaid)


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

Why? Does a pin that narrow bring anything to the table other than a style affection? Style comes and goes, good work is forever.

Because dovetail router bits have 1/4" shanks, pins that are narrower than 1/4" indicate that the dovetails were hand cut.


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## BubbaIBA (Nov 23, 2011)

Bondo,

Are you saying the only reason is so someone who knows nothing about woodworking will and can look at a joint and say "oh, this is a hand cut dovetail"? If the person looking can not tell a hand cut dovetail from a machine made dovetail no matter the size of the pins then it makes no never mind to them. Normal folks do not look and think like woodworkers.

Bottom line: London pattern pins are a style affection that bring nothing to the table other than style. Will skinny pins always be in fashion? Who knows, but I doubt they will. Over the years I've seen lots of things come in and out of fashion. Remember when every work bench had to have a shoulder vise, now not so much, the shoulder vise has been replaced by the leg vise which in turn will be replaced by…again, who knows.

As with all things wood….YMMV.

ken

PS, I could be wrong but IIRC the Woodrat will make pins skinnier than 1/4". Just saying.


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## HornedWoodwork (Jan 28, 2015)

First and foremost, those are beautiful and tight, but SINCE you have come so far let me make a hopefully helpful suggestion, ditch the machined look. Those are virtually indistinguishable from an off the router look. Making the pins narrower, changing the angle, and making a few of them half-blind, smaller, or differing your widths tells the astute viewer that these were made by hand. They can add a great deal of interest to a design, or fade into the background. I appreciate that you are starting on this path and I hope you read this as encouragement to continue to develop your dovetail vocabulary, not a slight on you in anyway. My basic rule when it comes to DT is "if it looks like a machine could've cut them, then a machine might as well just do it."

As bubba pointed out this type of aesthetic I'm advocating for might indeed be a fad or trend, but I would suggest that distinguishing your DT from the machine made look will serve you well whether you adopt a well-known aesthetic or create your own signature.


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## hhhopks (Nov 22, 2011)

I'll have to cut something tonight.
Just pickup couple Veritas saw from WoodCrafts' tool sale.
One is a dovetail and the other is a crosscut saw. 
If I can come close to what jtm pics, I'll be super happy.


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## ErikF (Apr 3, 2012)

Those look sweet. Good job. To touch on the other topic people are talking about, freehand them without a straight edge. Works the same and looks cool.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

> Best I can tell, unless you consider Allen Peters (died 2009) an "old maker", London Pattern dovetails are a recent style. The history of skinny pins aka London Pattern dovetails is hard to track down but most mentions of London pattern dovetails credit Alan Peters with popularizing the style. Rob Cosman was a student of Alan Peters and my guess is he brought the style across the pond.
> 
> Like I posted, styles change, what looks good today may look silly tomorrow. BTW, I remember Nehru jackets, bell bottom pants, and avocado appliances.
> 
> ...


He may have popularized it, but the technique most certainly originated in the 18th century English furniture, according to the history books I've read. They were intended to be signatures of certain makers to set their work apart from others, but mostly to indicate a higher level craftsmanship. If you look at antique furniture you'll see lots of DT's quite crudely done. Certain makers used the thin pins to set their work apart and today it is a way of saying "handmade" in the modern day of machine made joinery.

There are many references you can look up but I will only list a couple.

Here is a quote from Akeda's own literature on their jig:

"Traditional Thin Pin Dovetails
If you take a close look at old furniture, particularly English furniture, you'll notice that the pins are
often very thin, but quite wide apart."


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