# Need to update my electric.



## CookCrafted (Mar 24, 2016)

The short of it.

I have a 20 am fuse from the basement going 50 foot outside to my shop. In the shop it goes into a small electrical box that splits that 20 amp to 2 15 amps.

I thought for the last 6 years that the electrical wire going outside was inside of metal conduit from the house to the shop. The electrical wire goes out of the house in 1 in metal conduit and goes into the shop inside of metal conduit. But today while lossening some soil to replant new grass in the back yard I was only digging maybe 3 inches deep and I found the wire, no metal conduit and it is just simple 12guage romex coated wire.

For a long time I've wanted to put more power in the shop as if I run my heater I have to turn it off in order to use the table saw or the fuse will trip inside the house.

I live in minnesota. What is the cheapest / safest way to get more power out there. If I had more power I would run a 2hp dust collector, and other large tools. 1hp table saw. 1 3/4 hp band saw etc.

1. Whats suggested (In cold Minnesota) for conduit and wire guage to be run underground to the shed. Again about 50 feet.

2. Not sure I need 220 run out there but what are some recommendations for electrical power out to the shop. Say 60 amp out there and then split it up in its own box?

3. Any other tips you might have.

Ethan.

I need to do this in the next day or 2 or it won't happen this year!


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## ocean (Feb 13, 2016)

I'm no electrician but you are going to need at least 6AWG wire X3 in a 1 1/4 conduit for 60amps at the end. You will also have voltage drop of about 2.5 volts. You are going to find #6 a little on the expensive side (150'). I pulled only 13 ft. (x3)(that's 39') and it was $80.You could get away with 1" conduit if you install wire as you go, gluing one piece at a time. #6 is hard to pull for 50 ft. You are also going to find that 60amps is not a lot to use if you are planning on a 2hp dust collector basically running when any saw is running so there goes 40 amps. Well good luck and as I stated to start with, I'm no electrician. I would get a local electrician to give you some advise at the very least.


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## JBrow (Nov 18, 2015)

CookCrafted,

I am not a licensed electrician and this job may be best left to a professional. This is a technically complex upgrade. At the very least, pulling an electrical permit and consulting with the inspector before spending money and labor on the project are prudent actions (for the sake of safety and insurance). I have installed a sub-panel under a permit but no digging was required. My workshop is an attached garage. Having done this myself, I can say it is not a cheap upgrade. But the extra power is sure nice once the sting of writing checks as passed. I will share my thoughts for what they may be worth.

Direct buried service entrance cable is the cheapest way to go, since you can avoid conduit. I am not sure how deep it must be buried, but I am inclined to think below the frost line which I would guess is about 4' in MN. I would think heaving ground could do bad things to conduit or direct buried cable. Surrounding the cable (or conduit) with a few inches of sand would protect the cable, or conduit. Sand has a little more give and does not grab conduit or cable like soil would.

If the conduit is oversized, power to the workshop could be upgraded later without re-digging the trench plus running conductors through the larger conduit is easier. If 4 conductors are run, 240 volt service is possible; 3 conductors preclude this option (where I am calling the equipment grounding wire a conductor for simplicity - though calling it a conductor is probably not technically correct). I am pretty sure a separate grounding rod at the shop would be required. The neutral also has its own neutral bar which is not bonded to the sub-panel. Only the separate equipment grounding bar is bonded to the sub-panel. The neutral and equipment grounding wires are kept electrically isolated at the sub-panel. I was also required by the electrical inspector to run the bare equipment grounding wire run un-spliced from the sub-panel to the new nearby grounding rod to the main service entrance and then terminating at the main grounding rod. I cannot remember, but this may have been separate from the 3 conductors and equipment grounding wire I ran (that is, a fifth wire). No splices in this probably separate equipment grounding wire (fifth wire) were permitted.

The size of the conductors from the main load center to the sub-panel depends on the capacity of the circuit and whether copper or aluminum is used. Distance is also a concern. The length of your conductors is likely longer, perhaps much longer than the 50' run between the house and shop. The National Electric Code lists conduit and wire sizes, load capacity and distances. Electric wiring books available in home centers like Lowe's often include this information.


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## conifur (Apr 1, 2015)

> The short of it.
> 
> I have a 20 am fuse from the basement going 50 foot outside to my shop. In the shop it goes into a small electrical box that splits that 20 amp to 2 15 amps.
> 
> ...


Why post this here, call an Electrical Contractor. Not get OPINIONS from who you dont know what there knowledge/expertise is. Go to the freaken source. You people drive me nuts with this type of queastions that should be asked to a qualified expert in real face time.


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## conifur (Apr 1, 2015)

> The short of it.
> 
> I have a 20 am fuse from the basement going 50 foot outside to my shop. In the shop it goes into a small electrical box that splits that 20 amp to 2 15 amps.
> 
> ...


I will give you an example, my Bro lives in Stockton, CA, he has florescent 48" tube fixtures in his kitchen and laundry room with motion detective light activation and turn off after a set time, without any motion turn off, I changed out the old magnetic transformers/ballest to electronic ones. So the motion detective ones were not compatible with those. Now the guy at HD that sold us the new ballast told me he was a Licensed Electrician for 30 years, which I doubted, now working at HD for pennies, so a week later we go back to get compatible motion detective sensors, he took use over to them and said again, I was a licensed Electrician for 30 years , they were in that hard pack plastic, with all the instructions in that multi fold piece of paper inside instructions in 4 languages in fine print, BUT on the front it said, "NOT CAPATABLE WITH ELECTRONIC BALLAST", THEN i TOLD HIM THE LOOSER AND PISS POOR ELECTRICIAN HE SAID HE WAS, or sez he is, in his orange apron, with all the expertise tags pinned on them?


> ?


?


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