# Iwasaki Chisel Set



## moardie (Nov 17, 2018)

I saw this chisel set on craigslist and I am looking for a good set for dovetailing. Does anyone know anything about these chisels? This guy wants $2200 for this set and I was hoping to learn something.

https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/tls/d/japanese-chisel-set-of-10-for/6746907907.html

Thanks everyone,


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## TravisH (Feb 6, 2013)

He couldn't sell them for 300 less a month ago….

https://picclick.com/Japanese-Chisel-Set-of-10-for-Woodworking-made-183475467757.html

I don't know enough about Japanese chisels to know if a good deal or not. I looked at sets at Japan Woodworker and another couple sites a few years ago and wondered what they would be like but simply couldn't justify the price based on the time I spend doing chisel work (now once the kids get out of the house will take another look).


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Good looking out TravisH

A trusted source among others:

https://wnwoodworkingschool.com/product-category/hand-tools/chisels/

http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=312


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

I think it's better to buy one maybe two chisels in the size you would use. See how you like them then if they are great then go after more. 
This is how I made up my set of Tasai chisels for dovetailing.


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## moardie (Nov 17, 2018)

Thanks for the information. This is clearly not some great deal though, if it were half this price? Then maybe would it be a good deal?


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Thanks for the information. This is clearly not some great deal though, if it were half this price? Then maybe would it be a good deal?

I don't think so.

Better deals:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=japanese+chisel+set&_sop=15

I bought this set when it was 100.00 and it has served me well:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Wood-Chisel-Set-Woodworking/292506002586?epid=1463365009&hash=item441ab7649a:g:KugAAOSwb6Fav84c:rk:188f:0

Aj2 has some great advice.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Chisel-Set-of-10-for-Woodworking-made-by-Banshu-Miki-New-Iwasaki-/182630248842


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

Note that these chisels are hollow-ground on the underside a fraction of an inch from the cutting edge. What happens when your sharpening process reaches that? You can no longer have a straight edge!


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## rad457 (Jun 15, 2013)

For some strange reason they never do? Not a hollow grind, natural concave in the metal from heat treating, have had a few Japanese chisels for years and although not used everyday and very little honing to keep them sharp the space from the edge to the concave never disappears? Have seen chisels that have been used for decades and back space still there!
My concern would more likely be, are they actually real or knock offs? Lee Valley sells some very nice Dovetail only Chisels that are very reasonable priced and for myself work great!


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

> Note that these chisels are hollow-ground on the underside a fraction of an inch from the cutting edge. What happens when your sharpening process reaches that? You can no longer have a straight edge!
> 
> The hard steel is thicker then the hollow. So when the flat edge disappears you go back to the stone and make the hollow disappear the flat comes back.
> This is how I handle my chisels some of my edges are very close to the hollow. It's quite the commitment so not for everyone.
> If anyone wants to see my set let me know and I'll post them.


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## moardie (Nov 17, 2018)

> For some strange reason they never do? Not a hollow grind, natural concave in the metal from heat treating, have had a few Japanese chisels for years and although not used everyday and very little honing to keep them sharp the space from the edge to the concave never disappears? Have seen chisels that have been used for decades and back space still there!
> My concern would more likely be, are they actually real or knock offs? Lee Valley sells some very nice Dovetail only Chisels that are very reasonable priced and for myself work great!
> 
> - Andre


I don't think they are knockoffs. They belonged to the seller's father who was an excellent craftsman, and butcher. I am also a butcher, we have a lot in common so we are going to meet up. I was thinking of counter offering, but I do not know what would be a good price for these.


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

No need to get a set, especially if you're buying them for dovetails. The 1/2, 3/8 and 1/4" chisels will get 99% of the work in dovetailing. Also, consider why you'd buy a >$1000 set of chisels; if it is because they look cool and it is a very unique set of tools to own, go for it, makes sense to me. If it is because you think that they'll stay sharp longer or have some other special property, you probably are going to be disappointed. Every year for a few years I'd buy myself an expensive ($200+) Japanese chisel on my birthday. They are all hand made by various craftsmen in Japan. They look amazing, but honestly, I think my Veritas PMV-11 chisels are better for edge retention and sharpness.

The other thing to consider is that there is a huge market for fake Japanese tools. I would only buy from a reputable dealer ie. NOT ebay; eg. http://www.hidatool.com/ http://japantool-iida.com/ Lee Valley, Japan Woodworker etc.


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

> For some strange reason they never do? Not a hollow grind, natural concave in the metal from heat treating, have had a few Japanese chisels for years and although not used everyday and very little honing to keep them sharp the space from the edge to the concave never disappears? Have seen chisels that have been used for decades and back space still there!
> My concern would more likely be, are they actually real or knock offs? Lee Valley sells some very nice Dovetail only Chisels that are very reasonable priced and for myself work great!
> 
> - Andre


I have some I brought back from Japan this year. The hollow IS ground into the metal. There is no way this will disappear!


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

Well that's unfortunate Phil I guess you'll just throw them away when you reach the hollow.


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## moardie (Nov 17, 2018)

I ended up winning this auction on eBay https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Steelcraft-deluxe-drop-forged-socket-butt-chisel-set-1-4-1-1-4/223228574150?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

and I got this one so that I would have a 1/8 for getting in between tight dovetails. I might have paid too much for it. I am not really sure, it looks good though.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-8-Socket-Chisel/302950713543?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

> I have some I brought back from Japan this year. The hollow IS ground into the metal. There is no way this will disappear!
> 
> - Phil32


I'm sure the Japanese have had no idea what they were doing for many centuries…

Or, perhaps not
https://www.japanwoodworker.com/blog_entries/how-to-sharpen-japanese-chisels


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## TravisH (Feb 6, 2013)

> For some strange reason they never do? Not a hollow grind, natural concave in the metal from heat treating, have had a few Japanese chisels for years and although not used everyday and very little honing to keep them sharp the space from the edge to the concave never disappears? Have seen chisels that have been used for decades and back space still there!
> My concern would more likely be, are they actually real or knock offs? Lee Valley sells some very nice Dovetail only Chisels that are very reasonable priced and for myself work great!
> 
> - Andre
> ...


The hollow grind does not limit the life of the chisel or plane blade. No shorter life than a western chisel. You take advantage of the soft/hard steel lamination of the Japanese blade to quickly create a "new" back to flatten. You tap out ( ura-dashi ) the chisel or plane blade then flatten the back again. First link how to do a chisel the second a plane blade and an article for good measure.






https://www.finewoodworking.com/2017/02/02/tapping-japanese-plane-blade-andrew-hunter

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/2017/04/05/on-ura-dashi-ito-ura/


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

Thanks for the links re: sharpening Japanese bench chisels. As a woodcarver I rarely use flat chisels, so the ones I purchased in Japan will probably last forever.


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

Suggest that if you have never used Japanese chisel, buy a couple cheap ones from Grizzly, and make sure you like the weight, balance, and striking method(s); before you spend thousands of dollars on top of line set?

FWW did a review on Chisels back in 1999, that is still mostly valid today. The Grizzly Japanese chisels did extremely well in testing, and my person experience with half dozen different brands of chisels they tested follows most of the same article results. I just wished they would update that review with a set of Veritas PM11 chisels!

Cheers!


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## tshiker (Oct 25, 2014)

Here in lies the problem. No one was able to help you at all with your original question. First most of us don't speak Japanese and few of us have much experience with Japanese chisels either. All the advice given pertains to buying any chisels in general though and is solid, valid advice, just not much help with your decision to buy these! As a side note, I live right around the corner from the seller of those Japanese chisels AND was the high bidder (other then you) on the set of chisels you won on eBay! Small world!


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## moardie (Nov 17, 2018)

> Here in lies the problem. No one was able to help you at all with your original question. First most of us don t speak Japanese and few of us have much experience with Japanese chisels either. All the advice given pertains to buying any chisels in general though and is solid, valid advice, just not much help with your decision to buy these! As a side note, I live right around the corner from the seller of those Japanese chisels AND was the high bidder (other then you) on the set of chisels you won on eBay! Small world!
> 
> - tshiker


What do you think of those chisels that you were the high bidder on? Also what is your opinion on these japanese chisels?


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

> Suggest that if you have never used Japanese chisel, buy a couple cheap ones from Grizzly, and make sure you like the weight, balance, and striking method(s); before you spend thousands of dollars on top of line set?
> 
> FWW did a review on Chisels back in 1999, that is still mostly valid today. The Grizzly Japanese chisels did extremely well in testing, and my person experience with half dozen different brands of chisels they tested follows most of the same article results. I just wished they would update that review with a set of Veritas PM11 chisels!
> 
> ...


If your woodworking skills are at a level where you seriously consider purchasing some high end tools, the experiences of others are nearly meaningless. Buy one, use it, sharpen it! Only you can judge its applicability for your work. If you are not yet at a high skill level, stick to cheap stuff.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

2 grand for flat chisels to chop the waste making dovetails….wow!
Don't believe there is a bench chisel worth more than 100 dollars each.
(Lie Nielson is 55 dollars each when bought individually)

The Japanese chisels have a different feel… (I am not a fan)
Suggest following Captain Klutz' advice…. try it out before you dump that kind of money into something you may find you use rarely. I have about a dozen flat chisels, but only use ~3 regularly, so paying 200 bucks each for the 7 I rarely use, would be painful to me…. carving gouges is a different story.


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## Lemwise (Sep 17, 2016)

Iwasaki is what you would find at the local hardware store, decent but not great. Comparable to Fujikawa. That set on ebay may be from their "high end" line but it's still massively overpriced.


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## Lemwise (Sep 17, 2016)

> I have some I brought back from Japan this year. The hollow IS ground into the metal. There is no way this will disappear!
> 
> - Phil32


That's the entire point of the hollow you numbskull. If the back was completely flat you wouldn't be able to polish it because of how hard the cutting layer is. If you look closely you'll see the hollow is deeper at the beginning (near the neck) and shallower near the edge. As you polish the back each time you sharpen a Japanese chisel you reduce the thickness of the blade and consequently you remove some of the hollow as well. This allows you to maintain a flat portion behind the edge for the entire working life of the tool. If this concept is that hard to understand why are you even using Japanese chisels?


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## Lemwise (Sep 17, 2016)

> FWW did a review on Chisels back in 1999, that is still mostly valid today. The Grizzly Japanese chisels did extremely well in testing, and my person experience with half dozen different brands of chisels they tested follows most of the same article results. I just wished they would update that review with a set of Veritas PM11 chisels!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> - CaptainKlutz


Most of you wouldn't know what a proper Japanese chisel is if I hit you on the head with it. Grizzly is mediocre and no serious craftsman in Japan wants to be seen using that crap.


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

> Most of you wouldn t know what a proper Japanese chisel is if I hit you on the head with it. Grizzly is mediocre and no serious craftsman in Japan wants to be seen using that crap.
> 
> - Lemwise


Hehe, 
IMHO not quite true, as it depends on your definition of 'serious craftsmen'?

As someone who visited japan 4-6 times a year for 15+ years, and have visited a few chisel/plane suppliers in spare time during past business trips; 
I can tell you that buying the Grizzly Japanese chisels is no different than a beginning woodworker buying $50-100 set of Irwin, Footprint, or Narex chisels from local hardware, big box, or wood working store. Wood workers can use them successfully, and they are perfect for beginner or amateur wood worker.

Are the Grizzly Japanese chisels as good as my blue steel Iyoroi set, or Fujikawa HSS Powdered Metal chisels, 
Hell no. 
But this comparison is just like all cheap common US/EU chisels are not of same caliper as Veritas PM-11. Lie Nelson A2, or hand made Blue Spruce chisels. 

Funny part about the Grizzly chisels, is you can find the same caliper (machine stamped) chisel in any Japanese hardware store, or home center; all sold for basic wood working just like cheap chisels in US/EU. They are also sold as apprentice chisels in specialty shops that sell the hand forged, high end, chisel sets for 'serious craftsmen'. In the end, they all still cut wood - some just do it a little better. 

PS - My apologies if my Grizzly suggestion offended those of you with experience using Japanese chisels. My original post was simply suggesting that anyone wanting to learn if they like using Japanese style chisels, could do so for very small investment, before they adorn their tool cabinet with some expensive Japanese tool porn.

YMMV


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## Lemwise (Sep 17, 2016)

The guys I've worked with in Japan would laugh behind your back if you showed up at work with Grizzly, not as an apprentice though. They're good as training chisels, I'll give you that.


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## rad457 (Jun 15, 2013)

> The guys I ve worked with in Japan would laugh behind your back if you showed up at work with Grizzly, not as an apprentice though. They re good as training chisels, I ll give you that.
> 
> - Lemwise


LOL! Well I usually judge a craftsman by his work not the cost/quality of his tools? I guess that why we are able to post our projects. Way too many Keyboard experts on this site?


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Way too many Keyboard experts on this site?
> 
> - Andre


I love that. Keyboard experts. Really sums it up nicely. Kind of like armchair quarterbacks.


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## Lemwise (Sep 17, 2016)

There was a time when the miyadaikus I worked with would go drink sake together after work and they'd have heated discussions about who makes the best chisels. It usually was a contest between Ichihiro and Kiyotada. They took great pride in their tools and felt a tool reflects on the user.


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

It is always a good idea to check a person's project gallery when assessing their opinion on any woodworking topic. You can do that by simply clicking on the word "projects" under their avatar. I invite you to click on mine.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> The guys I ve worked with in Japan would laugh behind your back if you showed up at work with Grizzly, not as an apprentice though. They re good as training chisels, I ll give you that.
> 
> - Lemwise


May we see some photos of the dovetail work you have done with Japanese and western chisels ? I sure you have done them with both types of chisels.


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## rad457 (Jun 15, 2013)

> It is always a good idea to check a person s project gallery when assessing their opinion on any woodworking topic. You can do that by simply clicking on the word "projects" under their avatar. I invite you to click on mine.
> 
> - Phil32


Love the Kayaks! Just one question about your wooden puzzle. the Dovetails, were they cut with Ichihiro or Kiyotada Chisels?


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

LOL The puzzle dovetails were probably cut with a knife - a Pfeil (Swiss Made) knife!

Thanks Andre, for a little humor.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Something here about walking the walk when you talk the talk?
I get the biggest kick out of the project free "advisors" here. 
..... and they come up with the damndest excuses!


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Something here about walking the walk when you talk the talk?
> I get the biggest kick out of the project free "advisors" here.
> ..... and they come up with the damndest excuses!
> 
> - shipwright


It kills me too. Like I've said, if I showed up for a job interview without a resume, they'd send me packing.

Also, regarding the hollow on the back of the Japanese chisels, it's the same concept as kullenschliff knife blades - to reduce vacuum. Those Japanese chisels make such a perfectly smooth cut that without them, atmospheric pressure would make it impossible to separate the chisel from the wood.


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

I was hiking the Kumano Kodo when I came upon a woodworker's shop in a small village. Outside was a flawless 2" x 10" beam about 15" long. I asked the worker nearby if he spoke English. "No," he replied. I said, "Oh, I just wondered if this is oak." "Yes, it's oak." he said, in English.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I was hiking the Kumano Kodo when I came upon a woodworker s shop in a small village. Outside was a flawless 2" x 10" beam about 15" long. I asked the worker nearby if he spoke English. "No," he replied. I said, "Oh, I just wondered if this is oak." "Yes, it s oak." he said, in English.
> 
> - Phil32


A 15" beam? How in the world did he lift that monstrosity?


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

I'm sure he had help. Or, it was outside because he was waiting for help.

Note: The Kumano Kodo is a pilgrimage trail (actually a network of trails) south of Kyoto.


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## Lemwise (Sep 17, 2016)

> Also, regarding the hollow on the back of the Japanese chisels, it s the same concept as kullenschliff knife blades - to reduce vacuum. Those Japanese chisels make such a perfectly smooth cut that without them, atmospheric pressure would make it impossible to separate the chisel from the wood.
> 
> - Rich


No, that's not the reason at all. Seriously, where do you people get your information? Are you just parroting what some other clueless person once told you?


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Also, regarding the hollow on the back of the Japanese chisels, it s the same concept as kullenschliff knife blades - to reduce vacuum. Those Japanese chisels make such a perfectly smooth cut that without them, atmospheric pressure would make it impossible to separate the chisel from the wood.
> 
> - Rich
> 
> ...


LMAO! No, the clueless person is one who takes tongue-in-cheek comments seriously. I was trolling and you took the bait!

BTW, along with AlaskaGuy I'd love to see some of the dovetail work you have done. Please post some photos or projects so we can see how talented you are.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

"No, that s not the reason at all. Seriously, where do you people get your information? Are you just parroting what some other clueless person once told you?"

*I can't believe you took Rich serious!!!*

I've never never owned a Japanese chisel and I know better that that.


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## Lemwise (Sep 17, 2016)

> BTW, along with AlaskaGuy I d love to see some of the dovetail work you have done. Please post some photos or projects so we can see how talented you are.
> 
> - Rich


Not much use for dovetails in wooden boat building. And over here in the Netherlands we don't measure someone's craftsmanship by his or her ability to make dovetails. I know Americans and British people have an almost fetish like obsession with dovetails but there's far more to woodworking than that.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Not much use for dovetails in wooden boat building. And over here in the Netherlands we don t measure someone s craftsmanship by his or her ability to make dovetails. I know Americans and British people have an almost fetish like obsession with dovetails but there s far more to woodworking than that.
> 
> - Lemwise


Fair enough. Show us what your Miyadaikus taught you. Surely there are some intricate joints in there somewhere. I mean, if you're going to call people numbskull and the like, you must have some credentials to document your superiority.

Oh, and swallowing a story about atmospheric pressure on a chisel doesn't comport with calling anyone a numbskull. Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black. Besides, if you knew anything about physics, the atmospheric pressure holding two perfect surfaces together would affect pulling them apart, however you could slide them apart quite easily.


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## Lemwise (Sep 17, 2016)

> I mean, if you re going to call people numbskull and the like, you must have some credentials to document your superiority.


Unlike you I don't live for internet points. I've been in business for myself for almost 20 years, I have 9 people working for me and 2019 and 2020 are already fully booked with work. I don't have anything to prove.

And just to be clear, I didn't swallow the story about atmospheric pressure. That's why I said what I said.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Unlike you I don t live for internet points. I ve been in business for myself for almost 20 years, I have 9 people working for me and 2019 and 2020 are already fully booked with work. I don t have anything to prove.
> 
> And just to be clear, I didn t swallow the story about atmospheric pressure. That s why I said what I said.
> 
> - Lemwise


Sure thing. I believe you. LOL.


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## Lemwise (Sep 17, 2016)

Oh noes! Some random person on a random forum doesn't believe me! What am I going to do now!? Pretty please believe me! If you don't I won't be able to sleep!


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## AZWoody (Jan 18, 2015)

> BTW, along with AlaskaGuy I d love to see some of the dovetail work you have done. Please post some photos or projects so we can see how talented you are.
> 
> - Rich
> 
> ...


Already surmised you don't measure someone by ability. It's only by the tools they own apparently.


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

Lemwise - It's okay if you don't do dovetails. Submit photos of anything you have personally made of wood. There are several of us who question your credentials to call us numbskulls.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> There are several of us who question your credentials to call us numbskulls.
> 
> - Phil32


Technically he only called you a numbskull, Phil. Not acceptable of course, but let's not lose track of the scope.


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## Lemwise (Sep 17, 2016)

I think it's perfectly acceptable to call Phil a numbskull when he's using a Japanese chisel without knowing what purpose the ura serves.


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

We've seen your words, Lemwise. Now let us see your works.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I think it s perfectly acceptable to call Phil a numbskull when he s using a Japanese chisel without knowing what purpose the ura serves.
> 
> - Lemwise


Ahh, the ura. I could go on and on, but it's just vocabulary at that point. The true Japanese chisel aficionado knows the intricate details of properly setting the katsura. For without that, disaster will surely strike (pun intended).


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Well, I think the OP has been scared off….

Trouble when one lives in an Ivory Tower….they have to look down their nose at anything going on…


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

> BTW, along with AlaskaGuy I d love to see some of the dovetail work you have done. Please post some photos or projects so we can see how talented you are.
> 
> - Rich
> 
> ...


Hey, it's OK to post boats you've built. You won't be the first.
The thing is that not posting projects doesn't mean you don't speak from experience.
...... but if you did post some it just might prove that you do.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-Japanese-Chisels-10-pc-Set/G7102

Seems to be a decent set for 100.0 plus tax etc…..


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Hey, it's OK to post boats you ve built. You won't be the first.
> The thing is that not posting projects doesn't mean you don't speak from experience.
> ...... but if you did post some it just might prove that you do.
> 
> - shipwright


You probably recall, Paul, that Sam Maloof was an apprentice of mine. I taught him everything he knew. The most important thing I taught him was to showcase his work. Of course, that was my downfall since now everyone knows who Sam Maloof was, but I'm stuck here answering questions about Arm-R-Seal versus Waterlox on LumberJocks.

It's a lesson Lempwise could take to heart as well.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> Hey, it's OK to post boats you ve built. You won't be the first.
> The thing is that not posting projects doesn't mean you don't speak from experience.
> ...... but if you did post some it just might prove that you do.
> 
> ...


Well….....I taught myself everything I know. Now at age 75 (today) I've come to realize what a poor teacher I am.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Well….....I taught myself everything I know. Now at age 75 (today) I ve come to realize what a poor teacher I am.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy


You're too modest, AG. Your talent is exceptional and you're a great guy to go with it.


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

I like Itchiban soup….I can boil it better than any of you because my pot is better than your pot….it's a Japanese pot. I got it at Walmart. 
No…Beg as you might, I won't post pictures of my Itchiban soup. You fools just wouldn't appreciate my mastery of the noodle. 
I do stir it with a Ichihiro though, but thats all I'm giving up to you cretins!

I feel so dirty…You're all stoopid.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

You numbskull, 
you're not even using your pot the way it's supposed to be used. 
All you're going to end up with is wet noodles. 
Your probably not even stirring it in the right direction.

So you say you can make Itchiban soup? pffffft


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> You numbskull,
> you re not even using your pot the way it s supposed to be used.
> All you re going to end up with is wet noodles.
> Your probably not even stirring it in the right direction.
> ...


You handtoolers…lol. You think you're so special. I have an Instant Pot and all I do is press a button.


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