# Shaper Origin 3D contour tracing



## DevinT

The Shaper Origin is an augmented reality handheld CNC router-basically a Festool OF 1400 with a touch screen, gyroscopic stepper motors, and a computer built into it, sold by shapertools.com

Owners of said machine have access to a forum (ala community.shapertools.com) like LumberJocks (albeit, using the Discord software, so naturally it looks and acts differently, but it's still just a forum).

Someone posted a topic on said forum (community.shapertools.com) with the topic:

*FEATURE REQUEST - Using the AUTO function to carve varying depths into an object*

Of course, there was the usual reply of "not gonna happen"

Then there is also the reply of use vcarve-A software written by Vectric (vectric.com)-which can take your .dxf 3D CAD file and generate Go-code (.tap files) for a 2D CAM system based on your machines tooling (and kind of cutters you have).

VCarve Pro can also export SVG files. Shaper Origin takes SVG files instead of Go-code (TAP files).

However, VCarve Pro has a learning curve and is not free.

Let me show you how to do 3D contour tracing in any 2D vector software (Adobe Illustrator, Inkscape, etc.) for the purposes of driving a 2D CAM system for 3D approximation.

Let's say we want to make a 2" wide divot for your thumb on a piece of furniture but your largest router bit is 0.75"?

Well, you can use 3D approximation to drive your 2D CNC machine (e.g., Shaper Origin). I think you'll be surprised at what you can accomplish. Is it more work than using VCarve Pro? Maybe-depends on what you are trying to do and whether you have the time to learn how to use it.

Here is the cross-section of our arbitrary divot we wish to create (in this case, ~2" in diameter and 0.41" deep):










Now let's take some arbitrary router bit like the one I mentioned above (kempston 3/4" dia. ball router bit):










Now let's model the bit at various depths to get close to the desired divot.

ASIDE: Notice that we only have to model to the center of the divot.










Now we are mostly interested in the depth offset in conjunction with how much smaller the circle has to get at each depth to approximate the desired divot.

To do this, we will separate the bits first horizontally to record their depths and then vertically to record the diameters.

First, let's get those depths. I cut the divot in half and shift out the bits. Using two guides set to the bottom of the divot and top of the divot, I can measure the depths individually.










Taking measurements …




























… and so for this particular divot the depths are (from widest diameter circle - aka the start - to the center of the divot where the circle is the smallest diameter at the finish and at full-depth for the divot center) are…

0.22" 
0.26" 
0.3" 
0.34" 
0.37" 
0.39" 
0.41" 
0.42" 
0.42"

Notice how the last two circles are the same depth.

Now we need to know the radius offsets so we break out the bits vertically from the divot instead of horizontally.










Note that the measurement for the center-most plunge (at 0.42" depth) would be 0" - just a plunge and retract. For all other circles we are measuring the distance from the center of the divot to the center of the shank to get the circle radius for the path the bit has to traverse at that particular depth.




























And so for radii we get (from the smallest to the largest):

0" 
0.11" 
0.31" 
0.5" 
0.64" 
0.81" 
1" 
1.1" 
1.16"

Knowing these values, we can now create concentric circles from an Eagle-eye view, having extrapolated all the information we need from the cross-sectional view.

That produces something usable for Shaper Origin:

NOTE: Taking care to multiply the radius times 2 to get diameter.
NOTE: Pictured above the cross-section of the desired divot for verification that we are on the right track










Just for curious folks, the measurement tool can give us relative movements:










Now, to make things easier on your self, when you cut this, each time you traverse a circle, convert that path to a Guide type cut so that you don't accidentally traverse it at the wrong depth.

You can give yourself some labels in your SVG by converting text to paths and giving it the color of rgb(0, 114, 248).










Now altogether and in Outline mode:










Almost done. Now we take the stack of bits in our divot …










And we duplicate the group, flip it horizontally, and align the outer edge of the largest-diameter pass with the outer edge of our arbitrary divot.










But something happened … to make our bit reach the left side of the divot, we had to move the router bit left-of-center in the divot. This actually implies that our lowest depth of 0.42" on the last pass is NOT a simple plunge-and-return but is in-fact a circle.

Plus, the fact that the circle has dimension now means we need to:

Calculate the center delta
Add this to the diameter of all circles
Specifically, we are interested in where the center of the right-most bit in the horizontally-flipped group lies in-relation to the center of the divot.










The delta is 0.17" and this is the diameter of our center cut at the bottom of the divot.

Going back and re-working our circles for Shaper Origin … the radii and diameters ought to be:

0" radius + 0.17" dia = 0.17" dia.
0.11" radius + 0.17" dia. = 0.39" dia.
0.31" radius + 0.17" dia. = 0.79" dia.
0.5" radius + 0.17" dia. = 1.17" dia.
0.64" radius + 0.17" dia. = 1.45" dia.
0.81" radius + 0.17" dia. = 1.79" dia.
1" radius + 0.17" dia. = 2.17" dia.
1.1" radius + 0.17" dia. = 2.37" dia.
1.16" radius + 0.17" dia. = 2.49" dia.

Which results in this SVG for Shaper Origin to cut the divot:



















Now there is just one thing left to do. And that is to test our divot making paths.

We take the whole lot of fake cutters and we use path subtraction to "cut" into a block to check the profile:

NOTE: Black represents what we want to cut away to leave our divot.

Let's lower our cutters to the prescribed depth …










Now let's subtract the cutters from the divot negative to see what is left to clean up with sand paper etc.










OK, Now let's get in there and see what kind of damage we have left for ourselves to clean up by measuring those peaks:

The peaks max out at 0.01" so the most you'll have to sand away is 1/100th of an inch in select spots




























And there you have it. 3D approximation from a 2D CAM system.


----------



## HokieKen

Very well explained Devin. To me, the lack of ability to machine in all three axes is just the tradeoff for the extreme versatility of the Origin.


----------



## RichT

> Of course, there was the usual reply of "not gonna happen"
> 
> - DevinT


And even if it was going to happen, they wouldn't tell you.

The machine has z-axis control so new firmware is all it would take. I've been tempted to ask the team at Shaper Tools that I work with about that feature, but for the reason mentioned above I haven't bothered.

I've used the sort of tiered approach you discuss, but it's a real pain. Not something I'd want to do often, but in a pinch it does work.


----------



## Lazyman

BTW, Vcarve Pro may not really have the ability to design 3D contours. It can take 3D designs you have built in other CAD programs or 3D clipart and carve them but it does not have many tools for designing them. It excels at v-carving, 2D and 2.5D carving. It would be difficult for example to design your example divot in Vcarve alone without taking a similar approach to what you described. If I wanted to cut a divot in Vcarve on my CNC, I would probably model it in OnShape or F360 and import it into VCarve. Vectric Cut3D software is cheaper than Vcarve Pro and also has the capability to take 3D designs from other CAD software and slice them for Carving but probably lacks the v-carving and possibly 2D modelling tools. Vectric Aspire on the other hand has the 3D modeling tools required but is way more (2X+) expensive than Vcarve Pro.

Note that Vectric offers a free 30 day (I think) trial for all of their software and their online tutorials are actually pretty good if you want to experiment with them. There are also several YouTubers that specialize in Vcarve and Aspire how-to videos.

It would be interesting to see the Shaper carve a 3D contour created with one of the Vectric software packages.


----------



## SMP

Meh, i just make the divot with a gouge, too much math for my country brain. /shrug


----------



## DevinT

> Of course, there was the usual reply of "not gonna happen"
> 
> - DevinT
> 
> And even if it was going to happen, they wouldn t tell you.
> 
> The machine has z-axis control so new firmware is all it would take. I ve been tempted to ask the team at Shaper Tools that I work with about that feature, but for the reason mentioned above I haven t bothered.
> 
> I ve used the sort of tiered approach you discuss, but it s a real pain. Not something I d want to do often, but in a pinch it does work.
> 
> - Rich


Shaper Tools is tight-lipped around feature development. I occasionally prod them for information but always fail.

When they introduced the Helix feature, it proved they can control all 3 axes at-once. Though, you will notice they only offer this functionality when the diameter fits within the range of correction. Perhaps there are complications unforetold when Z-axis manipulation exceeds the correctable X-Y range, or that it is a "larger than a bread-basket" when it comes to developing it.

Agreed it is a pain. Also agreed it is worth it when you have no better choice *and* accuracy plus repeatability is a requirement. Otherwise just pulling out a gouge and working to a line and depth is going to be faster (but not repeatable and not as accurate).


----------



## DevinT

> Meh, i just make the divot with a gouge, too much math for my country brain. /shrug
> 
> - SMP


Gouge, travisher, whatever. Yup, takes 30 seconds to draw a circle, 10 seconds to choose your weapon, and mere minutes to work to the line and desired depth.

However, if you wanted repeatability to a strict tolerance, you *might* take the above route. Obviously not for something stupid like a child's toy, but perhaps for a tool that you sell for profit. Definitely worth while to reduce the number of finished products that fail quality control.

I tried to explain a method that actually doesn't involve any math. Just model the bit with a circle and square, then copy/paste the model of the bit, moving it around with the arrow keys on the keyboard. I know math sucks, and so I tried to eliminate it from this approach-favoring instead a purely visual approach.


----------



## DevinT

> BTW, Vcarve Pro may not really have the ability to design 3D contours. It can take 3D designs you have built in other CAD programs or 3D clipart and carve them but it does not have many tools for designing them. It excels at v-carving, 2D and 2.5D carving. It would be difficult for example to design your example divot in Vcarve alone without taking a similar approach to what you described. If I wanted to cut a divot in Vcarve on my CNC, I would probably model it in OnShape or F360 and import it into VCarve. Vectric Cut3D software is cheaper than Vcarve Pro and also has the capability to take 3D designs from other CAD software and slice them for Carving but probably lacks the v-carving and possibly 2D modelling tools. Vectric Aspire on the other hand has the 3D modeling tools required but is way more (2X+) expensive than Vcarve Pro.
> 
> Note that Vectric offers a free 30 day (I think) trial for all of their software and their online tutorials are actually pretty good if you want to experiment with them. There are also several YouTubers that specialize in Vcarve and Aspire how-to videos.
> 
> It would be interesting to see the Shaper carve a 3D contour created with one of the Vectric software packages.
> 
> - Lazyman


Thank you so much for the skinny on Vcarve. I had only seen it mentioned in the Shaper forums, and it is nice to hear from someone with more experience with it. I think I will skip it and try Vectric to see if we can't answer that question …

What does happen when you give Shaper a contour from Vectric?

*EDIT:* If you have some models in Vectric you can toss me, I'd be willing to give it a go. Just tell me what kind of material you'd like me to test it in, and toss me preferably SVGs (else I will have to find a way to convert), and we should be off to the races. I'll cover the material costs as long as they aren't crazy (e.g., smaller than a bread-basket would be fine-though you don't have to be limited to wood, I'll do plastic or metal if you wish)


----------



## SMP

> Meh, i just make the divot with a gouge, too much math for my country brain. /shrug
> 
> - SMP
> 
> Gouge, travisher, whatever. Yup, takes 30 seconds to draw a circle, 10 seconds to choose your weapon, and mere minutes to work to the line and desired depth.
> 
> However, if you wanted repeatability to a strict tolerance, you *might* take the above route. Obviously not for something stupid like a child s toy, but perhaps for a tool that you sell for profit. Definitely worth while to reduce the number of finished products that fail quality control.
> 
> I tried to explain a method that actually doesn t involve any math. Just model the bit with a circle and square, then copy/paste the model of the bit, moving it around with the arrow keys on the keyboard. I know math sucks, and so I tried to eliminate it from this approach-favoring instead a purely visual approach.
> 
> - DevinT


Yeah I see all the numbers and decimals and pictures and this is me:


----------



## Lazyman

Unless (until) the Shaper can accept any other types of files other than SVG like a G-code file that most traditional CNCs use , it would seem that there is no way to send a 3D design into the Shaper? If I understand the SVG format, it only has X and Y but no Z, though I haven't looked at SVG in depth. I've seen some references to using Vcarve to draw the vectors and then color coding them to output to an SVG for the 3 types of cuts (internal profile, external profile and pocket) but nothing related the g-code or a post processor specifically for Shaper. I am kind of surprised that SO hasn't at least added a basic v-carving capability to provide more powerful text carving capability.

EDIT: I just saw your note about sending you a file. Let me see if I can find something that has a chance of translating easily for the Shaper, though it won't include any of the depth of cut information.


----------



## DevinT

The way Shaper implements 3-axis control using SVGs currently (which is limited to "helix" cuts-which is just a helical plunge) is to use additional information collected from the user in the User Interface (integrated touch screen).

For example, a simple 2D circle plotted in X-Y is married with a plunge-rate and feed-rate to sweep the bit gradually about the diameter of said circle.

The Z-characteristics are not stored in the SVG.

To my understanding, people are using Vcarve to generate multiple SVGs that they anchor to a single point. After they are done performing all the cuts (at one depth) for a particular SVG, they delete the entire thing and place the next SVG representing the next depth.

Shaper just added a new feature in the last software release, that introduces a new way to anchor multiple SVGs to a single point. Previously, your SVG essentially had to have a border and you needed to make sure you could anchor that border to the same place. The limitation here was that say you had to flip the piece over and re-probe an edge, but the edge was cut away from the previous step and you no longer have a square object (or at the very least, the edges you used to indicate the stock into the system initially are no longer there or accessible).

The solution is to create a 90-degree right triangle colored red that indicates the X-Y origin to anchor to. With this new feature, you can, for example, tell Shaper that the anchor is not the border, but a flat you indicate off of-this way you can place the anchor on the same flat and when you indicate your flipped stock in, the SVG will be accurately placed despite the above issue.

Depending on whether you need to flip the part or not and whether the shape changes in the procession is really a key indicator as to whether you need to utilize the new "custom anchor" feature described above.

I imagine that if you never flip the part (which means you never have to re-scan and re-indicate the part into the system) that you don't need to utilize this new feature and …

As long as all the SVG's are the same width and height, I should be able to just slam their bottom-left corner to X-Y origin and every time I switch from one SVG (representing one contour depth) to another, they will all happily align.

Now , ... if it happens to be the case that while cutting it gets to a point where the router will actually no longer sit flat on the surface (because we are contouring away the flat surface as we go), then I can just float the whole router above the stock using the Shaper Workstation support arms. If I have to do that, then the size of the thing I am going to create is limited to about 2-feet in length by 8 inches wide (and my maximum depth of cut is 1.5 inches as I don't have bits longer than that).


----------

