# Sloppy chiseled dovetails... Looking for a coping saw approach...



## BartSteed (Dec 2, 2013)

I've been following Paul Sellers on YouTube as I continue to learn this magnificent new hobby/trade. One of his methods I found intriguing was his approach to sawing out the dovetail joinery with a backsaw and then chiseling out the waste from both sides using a knife wall as a guide. Now he is obviously an incredibly skilled craftsman but I cannot yet say the same for myself. I'm getting better but Id like to explore another method if even just to convince me to continue my persistence with the chisels.

I've been told that a coping saw can clear waste quite nicely. I do not yet own one of these and am looking into picking one up. With that being said, does anyone have experience with either the Robert Larson or the Olsen

I would love an LJ opinion here. Thanks in advance!


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## ksSlim (Jun 27, 2010)

I favor a "new Concept" brand fret saw.
Works like a coping saw but with a thinner blade.
Blade is like a skip tooth scrollsaw blade.
checkout the highland ww website.


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## Marc5 (Apr 1, 2009)

I use a jewelers saw with a 11 tpi skip tooth blade. This is a very efficient set up.


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

Haha, I spent so much time cleaning up the messy line the coping saw left I was going to try out the chopping method you described next. I think there's a reason he uses each method but I haven't caught what the reason is. I think after some practice with the coping saw and now that I can sharpen better I may have a better time cleaning up my dovetails.

The Olsen is decent, but mine doesn't hold the angle as well as every other LJ that recommends one seems to say it does. Could be I'm doing it wrong. That Amazon price is pretty expensive, but if it's the only thing you're getting I suppose the shipping is the same. Try tools for working wood, though they are out right now of the skip tooth blades everyone recommends.


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## BartSteed (Dec 2, 2013)

The Knew Concepts are a bit over my budget (saving for a LN jointer plane mwahah). I think both of your suggestions point to a smaller blade kerf and a skip tooth blade. Great advice so far, thanks! I love LJ.com…


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

I don't have a coping saw recommendation, but before you give up chopping dovetails, check out David Barron's video, "Hand cut dovetails made easy". I like Paul Sellers and have learned a lot from his videos, but Barron's is the best guide for hand cut dovetails I've seen. I'm on the tablet or I'd link it for you, but a google search will get you there.

His combo approach is excellent, but I've used the same concepts with chisels only and feel the results are pretty good. I just need more practice, especially on saw technique.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Fine Woodworking just completed a tool review of coping saws. You should read the article.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/toolguide/article/tool-test-coping-saws.aspx


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Knew Concepts are nice and I'm sure there is a lot more craftsmanship involved in making their saw compared to a typical jeweler's fret saw but I can pick from dozens of fret saws priced between $8.00 and $24.00 and then along comes Knew Concepts at $100.00 They even make a powered fret saw for only $2395.00 I don't think so. Good blades are more important than the saw frame anyway.


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## BartSteed (Dec 2, 2013)

Wow! A lot of responses!

@Tim: LOL - It does work, I just need more practice and I think it takes just a bit too long. I read that same complaint in a review. Also heard that changing the blades is tedious.

@JayT: I will certainly look into that! I find myself simply fascinated by joinery at this point. I love learning the different techniques.

@DKV: Thank you! I am looking at the article now.

Thanks fellas!


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## BartSteed (Dec 2, 2013)

@DKV: Bah! The article is premium content available only to paid subscription holders. Shame too, sounds perfect forwhat I am after. Thanks anyhow!


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## BartSteed (Dec 2, 2013)

@JayT: David Barron's, "Hand cut dovetails made easy" was simply wonderful. The magnet and japsaw seem like a very surefire way to achieve precision. I also really liked the dovetail alignment jigset he made. My vise wouldn't allow me to drop material all the way down through the jaws though, as I only have a tail vise at the moment. I've got a new Wilton 79C in my future though so I will certainly be trying this. Thank you for the wonderful video suggestion!


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Jerry's review on Veritas' Dovetail jig made me decide to purchase it with
the saw. I'm fed up with coping saws and the clean up and this will pass
that step, I think. LOL.
http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/3702









http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=41718&cat=1,42884


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## mds2 (Jan 28, 2013)

I'm new to dovetailing too. I started practicing a couple weeks ago and chiseling out the waste ala Paul Sellers was just taking too long. I cant afford the knew concepts saw either, but I do have a cheapass coping saw. I wasnt having very much luck with it either, until i found these:

http://www.bestwayproductscompany.com/

Super thin spiral blades! They cut easily in any direction and they make them for about any type of saw and they are cheap! The 6" coping saw blades fit my 6 1/2" coping saw no problem. Made things a lot easier for me.


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## BartSteed (Dec 2, 2013)

@waho6o9: Ok, now that thing is cool! It wouldn't allow me to use my new Crown 8" dovetail backsaw, but they even have a version that comes with a nice japsaw. Really really cool, thank you!


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## BigRedKnothead (Dec 21, 2012)

I prefer the coping saw method. I've gotten decent at sawing barely above my baseline so it requires very little chiseling.

As the FWW review states, both the Olsen and Lee Valley saws are very good. For the price, you may as well try one. You'll use it for more than just dovetails.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I cope them, but I don't try to get on the line. The coping just
gets the bulk of the waste out of the way quick. Paring to
the line still needs careful doing if you want them to
look just right.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

I'd like to point out whether you use the coping saw method or just the chisel method of removing waste on dovetails you still have to do the final clean up cut w/ chisel on the knife line. If that has been your problem the coping saw won't help with that.


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## BartSteed (Dec 2, 2013)

Yes, I feel like paring them with the chisel will be substantially easier and faster for me than chisel removal. I feel confident in my ability to do that much. I was just looking for a neater and faster way to get the bulk removal freed out. Great point though. I'm going to try the coping saw method first (as it's been pointed out to me that even if I don't use it as my dovetail solution, it will be handy for other things).


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

No offense to those that may have that Veritas pictured above, it's beautiful, but wow that strikes me as overkill not unlike those cheesy appliances made to cure a golfer's slice or hook or whatever. Goodness, it's cutting a dovetail (bless it's heart).

Like Red and others suggest above, don't attempt to cut to the line unless you like frustration. I have an older Belknap / Blue Grass coping saw that does well with a finer-toothed blade. Have to take my time in hardwoods, and that's where a skip-tooth may work better, but no issues otherwise because it fits into the cutlines left by my favorite dovetail saw.

I just cut a single 'swoop' down to one corner and chisel the rest vs. a swoop from either side. Less margin for error with the coping saw for me that way.


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## jdh122 (Sep 8, 2010)

I use the coping saw method myself - as Bondo notes, though, you need to clean up with a chisel. And while none of my dovetails have failed, they're not exactly excellent yet. I do have the Veritas saw and guide pictured above (a re-gifted gift from a cousin who thought he was going to do woodworking) but don't find it to be worth the hassle. It might give slightly better accuracy, but one point of handwork (to me at least) is training my hand and eye. By the time you get complicated jigs going, might as well use the router and tablesaw (this is just my own take on it, not trying to tell anyone how to work out their own mix of machines and muscles).


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## Whiskers (Nov 6, 2012)

I never thought about using a coping saw for dovetails. I did buy a inexpensive dovetail saw from amazon with the intention of trying to cut some dovetails by hand some day. Haven't got that brave yet, been trying to learn to do them with my jig.Only have 1 coping saw, I picked it up at harbor freight. The main thing I use it for is cutting PVC pipe, it great at that. Especially old PVC that has grown brittle and can't be cut with tools made for the purpose. My main broke out at the meter and there are not many tools suitable to get in a tight spot underground like that, but HF coping saw to the rescue. Definitely earned its keep that day.


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## SJD312 (Jan 15, 2014)

I tried both methods. Started with the Sellers approach then switched to coping after watching a bunch of rob cossman's "premium content." (he's talented but uses all of his vids to sell his products. I dont like paying $20 a month To watch infomercials for $250 saws.) Always felt I was fighting the saw and I either cut below the line or left so much that I had to chisel out anyway. Mind you, I've only been doing this a few months but I practiced dts literally every day for close to 3 months before I got a joint that worked. I rewarded my success with a veritas dt saw and now it's just a joy. Before that I was using a crown gents saw. For now I'm sticking with chiseling. As long as my edges are sharp it goes fast and clean. Guess I'm a Paulite.


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