# Are MinWax Products worth using?



## noone (Mar 6, 2012)

Just wondering what the general consensus of MinWax products is here. Is this stuff comparable to Target finishes or General finishes?

I saw this PolyShades product that looked interesting. Stain and Poly in one step. Too good to be true? What are others experiences with MinWax products. They are veryaccessible which makes them very tempting.

I am debating over and over again on what to use on a cherry bath vanity I want to stain espresso.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Polyshades suck….some Minwax products are ok, but not the polyshades. Awful colors and it takes a century for it to dry….used once on oak, never again….


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## ajosephg (Aug 25, 2008)

The only Minwax product I like is their solvent based polyurethane


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

I love minwax water based poly. Dries very quick. I add different transtint dyes to make the color and shade I want. With the right sanding between coats I get a flawless finish.


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## noone (Mar 6, 2012)

What about MinWax Prestain conditioner, then MinWax stain, then wipe on poly. Is that any good? I want this piece to look professional. I won't accept any less.

Or does 'professional' not equate to MinWax?

Whats a good finishing schedule would you recommend to get a nice espresso slightly red finish on cherry?


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

http://lumberjocks.com/replies/546189


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## rossboyle52 (Dec 31, 2012)

The prestain conditioner is supposed to help eliminate blotching when you stain. "Yeah Right" 
I sand to 120 grit then wipe the piece down and stain with minwax using a rag. Let it dry 24 hours then bronze wool it with extra fine wool. Then repeat the process. Too many folks get hung up on sanding a piece to 220 grit or even higher. It's really not necessary. 
Wipe on poly will not give you the finish that you are looking for if you desire a professional finish.
You can achieve a pro finish using a good quality poly brush. 
I use a HVLP sprayer sometimes and sometimes I brush the finish. It depends on the piece of furniture that I'm finishing as well as the type of wood used.
As for staining Cherry, I have found that it's best not to. Just apply the poly and let nature take it's coarse. It may take several months for the cherry to deepen (depends on lighting, temperature, humidity) but the color will deepen in time

Just my 2 cents!


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## LeeBarker (Aug 6, 2010)

My $.02:

Minwax Wipe On Poly will give an excellent finish but plan on 6 coats at least. It is a retail product. Yes, it is just a cut poly but can after can is the same. That can be an advantage.

Minwax colors are more color than "finish." But there is a nice array and they are accessible and, obviously, can be blended.

My experience differs from Ross's. Sanding to 180 gives me much less fuzz to sand back between coats of whatever the finish.

Polyshades is fine for simple, one-off projects. Wipe it on, wipe it off and there is certainly some build atop the color. I would think, however, that adding coats of the stuff would not work. Clear would have to follow that first step.

Lately I've been using Mnwax paste wax as a final finish and buffing it out rather quickly rather than waiting until it hazes over. The results have been spectacular.

My experience with the Minwax waterbase poly is that it is much softer, cured, than GF, which I prefer by a factor of 10 for spreadability, cure time, sandback and build.

There. That ought to prove that LJ is not just a bunch of head-nodders! Our mileage indeed does vary! And it's interesting and beautiful!

Kindly,

Lee


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## noone (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks for the replies.

DKV- that's the exact finish I'm looking for that you did on those oak cabinets. A nice dark espresso finish with a hint of merlot. I'm really hoping that finish will be possible on cherry.

I have conversion hvlp I plan on using for the top coats.

It sounds like mixing cordovan dye with a conversion varnish and spraying it on the bare cherry would work, building coats for darkness. Is this really all there is to it?

Is using steel wool ok to use between coats of conversion varnish? I think I read here that that is a no no because it leaves rust in the clear? Is that true with a dark finish? I wouldn't think that would be a problem with a dark finish.

Lastly, if I use a water based cv, do I need to raise the grain before the first coat


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Noone, the thing I like about mixing my own colors is that I can then "layer" it on. I can even leave spots that I would like to have more of the merlot to show. Fewers coats for merlot, more coats for expresso. It took awhile for me to get it, actually my wife told me that was the color she wanted. Dark with hints of the merlot. Anyway, not hard. Practice and patience.

Another nice combo I found is painting an object black and then watering down some latex purple. The watered down paint allows the black to show through with a hint of the black. In the crevices where the paint gathers a little more there will be more of a purple tint. A few people have asked me how I did it and were surprised at the simpleness of it.

Anyway, I'm just pretty much a beginner when it comes to finishing. I have found that the more you play and experiment the more reward you'll find. Finishing is an art.


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## noone (Mar 6, 2012)

DKV-
So you used both merlot *and* espresso transtint to achieve that color?

What did you sand with between coats? 0000 steel wool?

Thanks again.


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## marcuscraft (Nov 14, 2012)

I've used the Minway wipe on poly many times w/ great results. I bought it when I needed to get something done quick and a trip to Lowes is just a few minutes away. I was pleasantly surprised by it though and have bought it again since.


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

DKV and I are very much alike (shockingly) when it comes to finishing things like this. I am a huge proponent of delivering the majority of my color by tinting the finish, not by staining, which should be avoided in most situations - I use it only if I need to "pop" the grain first, which might be necessary since using color in the finish can obscure the figure. In fact, I am more likely to use stains as a "glaze" over previously sealed wood. I love the TransTint dyes, though I will normally use them with shellac as opposed to tinting the finish (which for me is usually water-borne). I do this chiefly because of cost…I could just color the water-borne finish, but it's twice as much as shellac.

People think all the above is difficult…it's the easiest way of doing it and gives a great professional result.

As for MinWax, the products themselves aren't terrible if you know what they are and how best to use them…but if you just read their marketing and their instructions on the can you will get into trouble. Even the Polyshades, as Lee said, is workable as long as you realize it's a tinted finish as opposed to a stain - if you apply it like a film finish, you will be fine.

Their oil-based poly and stains work well. I use often use them in combination much like using the TransTint as mentioned above. The poly is easy, especially if thinned and wiped on. With the stains, there are complications which arise not necessarily from the product but rather because IT'S A STAIN. I've heard raves about their water-borne poly and stains, but I use GF finishes for that so I have little experience with MinWax in that regard.

I'm not a big fan of their pre-conditioner. I'd rather use a 1/2 lb. cut of dewaxed shellac.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Bronze wool Noone, leave the rust elsewhere.


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## SamuraiSaw (Jan 8, 2013)

I never use poly brushes for anything oil based, except maybe whisk brooms. I regularly brush oil based finishes and always use brushes made out of china bristle, ox hair, and badger. Poly is fine for water based and latex finishes.


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## jim454 (Oct 17, 2011)

I use MinWax products I brush it on and spray it with no problem, there PolyShade is good You need to apply more than two coats if you want to deepen the color. Some time I will use a oil-based stain and then the PolyShade to get the color I need.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I sure do like the winmax wax.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Noone, I used only cordovon transtint. Based on the number of coats I varied between the merlot and expresso. You can also vary the color on the same piece of wood with thicker vs thinner coats. I usually use a brush and work fast since water based dries rather quickly. I never get brush marks with minwax waterbased poly if I work quick. Quick is the key. If you doddle (?) you leave marks. I always use 3000 grit prior to the final coat. Depending on the number of coats, 600-3000 is what I use. I'm not a "classic" finisher. I play around with products, find the best results and then pretty much stick with the tried and true. Minwax waterbased poly and Transtint are the products I use. If I was a professional woodworker I'm sure I would work with many different products but the limited finishing I do I stick with what I know produces great results.

I'm certain that each answer you received works well for each poster. My method is my method and each person has to find what they're comfortable with when it comes to application and results.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I haven't used them in over 20 years, maybe they're better now. But I still avoid them at all costs.


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## noone (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks again for the multitude of responses. It sounds like there are so many different ways to skin this cat. Sounds like I need to drop some cash and get to experimenting.

I'm looking for the most professional result possible. If the best result is easy, that sounds even better.

It sounds like DKVs process is really the simplest, at least to me.

DKV-
Have you tried your process on bare wood previously? How is the long term durability of the minwax water poly? I have heard comments of it being too soft. Do you have any close up pics of your kitchen doors you can share?

Thanks again all.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Noone, remember I'm not a professional like a lot of the guys. However, I am happy with my results which took a lot of "try and try again" on scraps.

I applied my tinted poly right to the raw wood. A number of folks have different ways but that's the way I did it.

I've only had the cabinets under use for about three months. No wear and tear showing but the long term is what we're looking for. I don't know about soft…

I will provide pix tomorrow. During the winter the sun only shines in my kitchen windows for about an hour a day. The differnet tones show best with the sun on them.


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## Richforever (Mar 19, 2008)

My nearby HomeDepot just dumped Minwax and replaced it with Varathane oil-based products. There was one can of water-based topcoat that I needed to complete a project. When I applied the Varathane, it was incredible! It went on smoother, dried faster, and looked better than the Minwax. Just looking at the content I could tell that it was better than Minwax. I won't be using Minwax anymore.


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## teejk (Jan 19, 2011)

old school here…"standard" Minwax oils but you have to pay attention to the wood specific color charts which I find are pretty accurate (read that wood specific part again). I never got the knack of using their gel stains but do use them like paint where they don't matter. I like their water-based poly finish because of the quick dry/recoat time (although I still wonder why they say not to use steel wool between coats…I do it all the time). Never used their wax products because Johnson's works for me (and in fact I'll wax in lieu of poly if I know the surface will not get abused…that cleaning between coats takes more time than putting on the next coat).


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## SamuraiSaw (Jan 8, 2013)

teejk- The reason for advising against steel wool is 2 fold. First and foremost is the possibility of contamination. Water borne products are much more susceptible to the oils and silicones commonly used on regular steel wool. If any of that gets in your finish you have the potential of fish-eye. The other is steel particles will rust under a water-borne finish. As in any product, the warnings are based on worst case scenarios. YMMV


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

I've been a Minwax stain user for decades, maybe that is why I like it. They do have constraints in color, so when I need to move away from all the traditional wood colors I keep the three Behlen tints in stock, Red, Blue and Yellow. Can go almost anywhere from there.
Don't use polyshades, terrible product, and never made the jump to water based stains or polys. I also like the fact you can airbrush Minwax stain on for a sunburst effect and done right, it won't run and looks great.
Most of my final finishes are spray lacquer, or brushed and polished poly using a china bristle brush then up to 1200 grit then Novus #2 polish, or maybe hand rubbed Tru-Oil followed by Novus #2 or Megula's swirl remover. I can get a very deep, mirror finish with the Megula's or the Novus. Just have to make sure the finish is hard dry!


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

You can put the water-borne poly directly on the wood with no problems. In fact, if more people would just finish their projects naturally like that, they'd experience much more success and less hard-ship.

The Mixwax should be very durable, like any water-borne poly. However, I haven't used the Mixwax. I love the General Finishes Endurovar, which is also a water-borne poly - it's slightly modified to mimic the look of oil-based, so it gives a warmer look. It's VERY durable.


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## nwbusa (Feb 21, 2012)

Minwax Polyshades is hands down the worst finish I've ever used. Absolutely horrible product.

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/37162


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

@teejk - I would say that you don't use steel wool between applications of water-borne poly because a mechanical adhesion is not necessary, like in oil varnishes. Water-borne finishes have a "burn-in" characteristic, similar to shellac and lacquer. This is why you have a limited window for reapplication of additional coats with these products - one fully cured, you lose the burn-in qualities.


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

"Polyshades suck….some Minwax products are ok, but not the polyshades. Awful colors and it takes a century for it to dry….used once on oak, never again…."

What Jorge said!


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## nate22 (Jul 12, 2010)

Minwax polyshades is the worst idea they ever have had. Stay away from it if you can. I use the minwax wood stains for my furniture and I like it.


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## teejk (Jan 19, 2011)

thanks Samurai…but I treat steel wool the same as their recommended sandpaper (total wipe/vac/air if needed before the next coat).

I've tried it their way and find that I remove most of what I applied…maybe that is what they intend!

I was actually thinking it was because of lack of "bite" on the next coat but as said above, I use water based poly because of the dry/recoat time. I hate finishing but worse than that I REALLY hate a bad finish (my wife thinks she does a good job but I wait for her to go away and redo it).

I hit successive coats in as little time as the last coat permits. Maybe related, maybe not…I'm restoring tractors and see that primer/paint says to recoat within an hour or after 48 hours…meaning before it starts curing or after it is beyond hurting it.


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

I have wasted my money on about 40 Minwax products. I won't buy them again.
For stains I like Rodda.
For lacquer I like Valspar from Miller paints. 
For Poly I like Deft.


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## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

I actually like the oil-based wipe-on polyurethane and spray can lacquers in appropriate uses. Both are cheap, work well, and are easy to use.

I'm not a fan at all of many other Minwax products, including stains and water based finishes. I prefer General Finishes, Behlen, Waterlox, etc… For home center products, I think Zar makes much better stains, but Behlen / Mohawk stuff is better than home center products.

General Finishes makes GREAT water based varnishes, including some that don't look water based when dry!


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## teejk (Jan 19, 2011)

Cessna…I did try Zar on a table made from an old cherry beam because I couldn't find a suitable Minwax color…I would use that again if it was more widely available. For the hobbyist though, Minwax is marketed everywhere and is relatively cheap if somebody wants to keep a range of colors. And I've never had any issues with their standard line.

There was a time when I only used Watco…they went away for awhile but I think they got new life…bought by Minwax I think.


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

I've used minwax products and well, there's just better on the market. For stains I like cabot, they are a pigment stain instead of a dye stain, so you can go back and remove smudges, don't have to worry about corners and edges when applying because you will be able to get an even finish regardless of how long ago you stained part of a piece. 
As for their poly… wipe on is ok for touchup, but I find their normal poly to be problematic where I live due to the insainely high humidity, and sometimes temperatures, which it is not made for use in.
Pre-stain conditioner, the cabot just works better, even with other brands of stains.

What most people don't know is alot of lacquer products offered by various stores are actually manufactured by gemini. Some of their lines are not as good as others, but how good it is depends on your access to the professional quality lacquers, which are typically not sold in alot of stores because they have only a few people in each area of the country that they allow to sell their products.


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