# Accuracy problem, me . . . . .



## OldBull (Apr 30, 2020)

Lately I seem to be going backwards in ability, luckily most errors are on shop stuff and don't matter for looks that much but I really have been off lately. No excuses it's me. I can however account for a couple things. I have a grey steel ruler with black markings, the thing is going to be bent in half one day when I try to see markings and can't.

I try to measure from saw blades to the board or to the fence and they almost never work,, table saw, bandsaw etc.. I have heard you folks make a test cut and now I am doing that to get my marks but damn, why doesnt simple math work? I do know that I sometimes hold a straight ruler up to a 2×4 and measure and mark and today I told myself that I have to use something that finds the edge like a square, no more air-measuring. I do account for kerf but setting the bandsaw blade by measuring the board and I never get it in the middle. If I measure and mark boards with my tape measure I am usually fairly good (not today). Math I am usually OK with, transfering it to my work is a disaster.

I am adding a floor to my bench and I am nearly afraid to cut it. I have to notch each corner and get it square.

Measuring from the table saw blade to the fence has always been a pain to me, I use an igaging caliper with depth gage. Several times I told myself to knuckle down and take the time and get it right but accuracy still alludes me. Some are mental errors and some are technique, I think maybe some are my old eyes not seeing the numbers correctly. Sometimes I think the woodworking gods get drunk and start having a laugh messing with me. How am I ever going to make something nice with such inaccuracy?

Just a rant, have a laugh at my pics, I do !!!!!
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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

Invest in Incra rules and fences.


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## Foghorn (Jan 30, 2020)

Measure twice or thrice, cut once. It can be frustrating. No need for fancy tools but an accurate rule and square and care will get you there! We've all been there.


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## Pixxture (Mar 16, 2018)

Oldbull, been there, done that and once in awhile i do it again.
I am of the age ( even with reading glasses) that i can see 8ths, Only guess at 16 ths.
I agree with MadMark2. Using a scale with pencil holes REALLY helps. INCRA and WOODPECKER both make those scales. Both brands are good quality.
I line up my blade to the marks i made with those scales, 
I also try to cut scraps first, just in-case.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

When accuracy is important (most the time) I set the table saw fence with what ever tape I'm using for the project. I try to use the same tape throughout the project. Once the fence is set I take some scrap rips I keep in the shop (just for this purpose) and make a test cut using my miter gauge to control the stock. The test cut does not have to go completely through the scrap price. Just enough to get a good saw mark on the wood. I then measure the saw mark and if needed I bump the fence to where it needs to be.

Works of me.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

yeah. Duh.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

The longer you do this the more things you will learn the hard way. I once had a project that was going horribly. Finally i realized I was using one tape measure on the project, and used a different tape measure i kept by my table saw. Well, turned out one of the tapes had a crack/broken rivet at the hook, so the hook pulled out an extra 1/16" or so sometimes.

Yeah get a hook rule, tape measure, or square.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

> When accuracy is important (most the time) I set the table saw fence with what ever tape I m using for the project. I try to use the same tape throughout the project. Once the fence is set I take some crap rips I keep in the shop (just for this purpose) and make a test cut using my miter gauge to control the stock. The test cut does not have to go completely through the scrap price. Just enough to get a good saw mark on the wood. I then measure the saw mark and if needed I bump the fence to where it needs to be.
> 
> Works of me.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy


+1 use similar method. Now this may get me in trouble but I also use a METRIC rule instead of Imperial. Takes the guesswork of of any measurement.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> The longer you do this the more things you will learn the hard way. I once had a project that was going horribly. Finally i realized I was using one tape measure on the project, and used a different tape measure i kept by my table saw. Well, turned out one of the tapes had a crack/broken rivet at the hook, so the hook pulled out an extra 1/16" or so sometimes.
> 
> Yeah get a hook rule, tape measure, or square.
> 
> - SMP


Lol, you made my look at your profile to see if you lived in the USA. (when you reference metric.)


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## Chenier (Mar 15, 2019)

> Once the fence is set I take some crap rips I keep in the shop (just for this purpose) and make a test cut using my miter gauge to control the stock. The test cut does not have to go completely through the scrap price. Just enough to get a good saw mark on the wood. I then measure the saw mark and if needed I bump the fence to where it needs to be.
> - AlaskaGuy


I try to keep my crap rips out of the shop. 

But AlaskaGuy's principle works: Assume your first set up isn't going to be spot on. Make a test cut. Adjust the fence or stop as needed until it's right. Only then cut your workpiece.


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## CWWoodworking (Nov 28, 2017)

This maybe a stupid question, but have you tested ALL tools to be accurate?

When I got a new table saw, chop saw fence, etc, I checked to make sure everything was 100% accurate.

If use/changing multiple tools, it all needs to be dialed in.

All at once, no exception.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> When accuracy is important (most the time) I set the table saw fence with what ever tape I m using for the project. I try to use the same tape throughout the project. Once the fence is set I take some crap rips I keep in the shop (just for this purpose) and make a test cut using my miter gauge to control the stock. The test cut does not have to go completely through the scrap price. Just enough to get a good saw mark on the wood. I then measure the saw mark and if needed I bump the fence to where it needs to be.
> 
> Works of me.
> 
> ...


we should have gone metric 50 years ago like they taught us ln school.never happened,much easier system.


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## WalkerR (Feb 8, 2017)

^^^^ Officially the USA has been metric since 1975. But it was supposed to be a voluntary transition and nobody did it. Look it up. It's an interesting read.

Two things I've found really help with measuring issues. The first is using story sticks, blocks, etc for repeated cuts. Much better than a tape measure. The second is making most if not all cuts oversized by anywhere from a 1/8" to 1", depending on the size of the work piece. Then measure a third time, and make a second pass with whichever tool to final dimension. Throw a test-fit in between there and if you happened to wrong-side-of-the-blade it on the first cut, it'll be perfect!

A bandsaw is one thing I don't have in the shop yet, but they seem very difficult to get/keep accurate. If attempting to resaw, I'd probably oversize the cut then run through the planer.


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

> Invest in Incra rules and fences.
> 
> - Madmark2


Yup, and I STILL double check. Once that Incra fence is set up, your adjustment work is done. I'm a "trust, but verify" kind of guy. Once I set it for a project, there is no more checking. BUT, if I change something, it has to be verified again.


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## iminmyshop (Dec 9, 2012)

When accuracy is important I use some junk wood milled to the same size and cut a test piece first.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

When I learned to put the ruler away, my ww'ing became much less frustrating. Think about it, most of the time it's not the actual measurement, but the fit that matters.

More often than not, I "measure" by marking from reality. IOW for something like this, place the piece in situ and mark directly.

If you can't get a piece like a shelf in place, use a length of scrap, sneak up on the cut until you're satisfied, this is you're "ruler".

This also applies to other things like spacing shelves, dividers, drawer slides - make spacers, don't try to place them on a mark.

All that said, the type of ruler you use can create problems, and the one you show is one of the worst, at least for me. I really like the LeeValley hook rulers. The lines are very easy for my 65 eyes.

I also use calipers and dividers a lot. My absolute favorite is a fractional dial indicator (Igaging fractional dial indicator)


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## OldBull (Apr 30, 2020)

Thanks all, I appreciate the helpful and kind words.

To answer some questions,

I am sort of anal about getting and keeping my saws square.

I could have easily laid that piece down and marked it in/near position, a method I will remember to use this as much as possible from now on, great tip thanks.

I use the same tape measure at the saw and the work piece.

I will definetely get a new ruler and use that for straight edge only. (or for kicks bend the crap out of it).

I use calipers a lot, the depth gauge end of it does not do so well for me setting my table saw blade to fence.

I will get a new ruler / system.

I will try story sticks, but isn't that a ruler you can mark on ? I have an aluminum cutting rule I will try.

Learn to put the ruler away, man that hits home….... Thank you !!

I also have to be accountable for brain fog, at 62 I do occaisionally have it.

Better glasses, it seems I have (prefer to use) a set that can read the monitor from 2.5' but they do not work at 6 inches.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

One thing that helps me a lot is using stops on the miter saw. For instance if you are making table legs, it is not that important if the legs are 1/8" too short or too long. What does matter is that they are all the same length. It is easy to measure the first leg then set up a stop on the miter saw fence, then use the stop to cut all the legs. It saves time in that you only have to measure the first leg and you get 4 pieces that are identical. Any time I need to cut matching parts I take the time to set up a stop and I get repeatability.


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## OldBull (Apr 30, 2020)

I have been contemplating adding an recessed slot to my miter saw bench, I will have to look at that. For now the saws short fence is the only clamping possibility.

Sometimes it seems there is so much to learn and so many ways to do things that the obvious can be overlooked.


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## 987Ron (Apr 9, 2020)

I find that on close tolerance small items I often use a illuminated magnifier for some items.. Helps the old eyes see a bit better. Takes time on the front end but saves later. Like any project the beginning must be accurate for the following step to be also. If the foundation of a house is not square the house will not be either.


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

I use bifocal safety glasses


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## bilyo (May 20, 2015)

Re-read Walker's and Robert's comments above. Right on.
Regarding metric measure: I like it. It makes math a lot easier than fractions. However, I have found that I like machinists scales and tapes (1/10, 1/100 inch) even better. The down side is that tapes and scales are a little harder to find.


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