# Question on Saw Stop quality



## DanielP (Mar 21, 2013)

I am interested in hearing from anyone who has purchased a Saw Stop cabinet saw and is not happy with its performance. Particularly any feedback on alignment problems.

All of the reviews I can find on the internet talk about how it's perfectly aligned from the get go, so they don't mess with alignment.

Has ANYBODY here ever actually worked with aligning one of these things. How can people give these saws such flowery gushy reviews when they haven't even checked out the alignment process?

I ask because I recently purchased the Saw Stop Professional 1 3/4 HP saw. I can say that it DEFINITELY did not come aligned. My experience is with an old Jet contractor saw which I bought new in the 90's. I could cut near perfect 45 bevels on my Jet using sleds of course. And I would buy like 1 1/4 1 1/2 wood and quickly resaw easily with little burning with the Jet. (doing it with mutiple cuts of course) The Saw Stop does not come near this performance YET.

I have it better than it was (Saw Stop) and am still getting the feel of it. Have yet to mess with the alignment at 45, that will be this week.

I bought the saw because of the ability to make refinements in alignment, so hopefully it will eventually get there.


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## Woodmaster1 (Apr 26, 2011)

I had a problem the with pcs 13/4 at school. When setting the blade at a 45 the whole trunion went to 45 on it's own. The worm gear was not adjusted properly from the factory. Easy fix, just should not have happened. My new delta unisaw came perfectly set and has stayed that way for three years.


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## iminmyshop (Dec 9, 2012)

Have you talked with their customer service dept.? I have generally found them exceedingly helpful.


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## Woodmaster1 (Apr 26, 2011)

No need, it took about 10 minutes to fix.


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## rad457 (Jun 15, 2013)

So on a $3000 saw you have to Fix it to use it? I'll stick with my Made in U.S.A. Delta. LOL!


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## AHuxley (Apr 22, 2009)

> So on a $3000 saw you have to Fix it to use it? I ll stick with my Made in U.S.A. Delta. LOL!
> 
> - Andre


Why the need for a drive by snide comment that contains no benefit to the thread? Plus it is based on a fallacy, that being you are suggesting fewer or no USA made Delta machines came to the end user needing adjustment… that is laughable. It happened with plenty of US built Delta and Powermatic machines and industrial machines that made PM and Delta look like they were made of tin foil. Now for a counter snide " at least the OP can get parts for his".

To the OP, I am not sure the people you discuss never checked the alignment, I have seen plenty who shared their alignment process and found the various SS saws to be well within tolerance for a woodworking machine, I say that since perfect is beyond our ability to measure.

SS has a good reputation of coming to the end user in good alignment that said every woodworking machine needs to be gone through before use and aligned to a person's (and their testing equipment's) ability. SS and even Martin or Format 4 has their imperfections and given each is common carrier delivered at some point in the chain things can also happen in transit. Break out the dial indicator and the manual and do a full alignment, if that fails call the SS tech support they do as good a job as any and better than most.

It is frustrating to get a machine that needs lots of alignment but reality is most need at least some, even ones 10 times the price of a SS.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Even the most expensive saws take a slow boat from China, then a fast truck from Hoboken…. a lot can and does happen during shipping. It's not necessarily the manufacturer's fault, though it's ultimately their responsibility. Always give them a chance first.


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## johnstoneb (Jun 14, 2012)

I just bought an SS contractors saw. The blade was within .001 of square to the miter slot. Using a Wixey the blade angle read 44.9 took longer to read the book on adjusting the stop than it took to actually adjust it. At 90 it was dead on. Had to adjust the fence slightly for square. I'm extremely happy with the way it came and the ease of alignment.


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## Bill7255 (Feb 23, 2012)

I have the PCS and it was .001 to the miter slot. The back of the blade was toward the fence, so I adjusted it to +.0005. Took maybe 10 minutes. The 45 angle was 45 and left that alone. The out of box alignment was within, just wanted it better.


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## DanielP (Mar 21, 2013)

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I purchased a Forrest WW2 in order to have an unused flat surface for calibration. I have taken hundreds of measurements using different techniques and and repeating the same process over and over to get it consistent. For example in the second picture the indicator is at an angle so some people will say it is not accurate. Well, it is consistent and I've gotten the feel down for using the indicator, Plus I am not unfamiliar with this type of equipment.

It will be off more than .009 and unfortunately the low point is not directly across from the high point. By finding the high point on the flange .0007 and matching it with different points on the blade then adjusting table I can get it down to about .0035 which is unacceptable to me. Also, the arbor shaft in front of the flange is off .0005 the low point being directly in line with the flange high spot.

I am thinking of using a diamond stone to even out the flange but with the arbor being out I'm not sure how that would affect the end result.

The factory had the straight up stop set at 89.8. I reset both stops beyond limits because I use a wixie on every angle change.

I talked with customer service. They strongly downplayed the tolerances given in the manual and said they were rewriting it. Again unfortunate, because I bought the saw precisely because I studied the manual online and wanted the most accurate saw I could get.


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## johnstoneb (Jun 14, 2012)

You are working with wood here a substance that can move way more than the tolerances of your saw. The wixey gage itself can be off more than .2 of a degree between guages. .2 off of 90 takes about a minute to adjust out and then it is at 90 with your wixey only mine might have it at 90.2.
I checked runout on my blade just for my own curiosity and had about .007 well within tolerances for the substance you are working with.
This post is beginning to remind me af another one on tolerances from a few months ago.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

You are unhappy because the arbor on your saw is out 5 ten-thousandths of an inch?

That is such an unbelievably small amount that breathing on the thing wrong could result in that kind of a measurement. I wouldn't worry about it. Wood can move more than 0.0005" in ten minutes.


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## DanielP (Mar 21, 2013)

I guess I obsess a bit. I just did the simple test with the square and feeler gauges. It's off less than a .002 straight up and at 45.

One thing I really like is cutting lids off boxes you can adjust the fence until you get the cuts dead square.


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

Sawstop claims they are made in USA. That, if it's completely true would eliminate a lot of the poor quality and alignment problems you see in Chinese made saws. Apparently the only thing the Chinese can do perfectly straight is a cyber attack 

That being said, I think the old saying, "If it were perfect, it would cost a whole lot more" applies here. Personally, I would not expect even the best US made table saw to meet my criteria, which at this point is a deviation of + - .0005. That is why the William Ng 5 Cuts to a Perfect Cross-Cut Sled is an important thing to know about. Have faith my friend, what God didn't give you, he gave you the tools to get.


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

I have the ICS 5hp SS, and it was dead on out of the box. I had to align the fence but it was only a few thou out and that was with me assembling it,. Been running now for a good while, and zero complaints. Best saw I ever used. The only machine I've used that i like better but does not have the safety feature is a Felder.

For those that don't own, well all I can say is bless their hearts.

I don't thing any machine company has zero machines perfect out of the box. All kinds of things can happen from transportation to jostling by the delivery company.

The important thing is how is it handled when you do have an issue. They are top notch


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

I think most precision metalworkers would laugh at you if you wanted + - 0.0005", never mind working with a substance that can move tenths of inches per day with changes in temperature and humidity.

The obsession with perfect precision in tools meant to work with an inherently imprecise material continues to amaze me.

Starrett calipers, which are just about the best around, can only resolve to accuracy of 0.001". If something is a thousandth or two out in one direction or another, don't sweat it because your precision measuring tool isn't accurate enough to measure the inaccuracy.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

They've never claimed that. From their website : "We are proud to be 100% U.S. owned and engineered.



> Sawstop claims they are made in USA.
> - Jerry


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## AHuxley (Apr 22, 2009)

> Sawstop claims they are made in USA.


I have never figured out why people have this misconception, none of their saws have ever been made in the US, however, I have seen this over and over again on forums for 20+ years.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

I went through my PCS 1.75 with a dial indicator when I got it 3+ years ago and checked it again a few weeks ago when I reconfigured the layout of my shop.

The arbor shows runout of less than 0.003, which is equivalent to the average human hair. The blade/miter slot alignment shows about 0.004. The miter slot/fence alignment shows about 0.007 deviation front-to-back away from the blade.


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## AHuxley (Apr 22, 2009)

While I understand compounding errors, even with a highly dynamic medium like wood, I often think it must drive the OCD in many to new heights given the general state of woodworking measuring equipment. The 36" steel Veritas straight edge (which is probably near the upper end of quality that most woodworkers, pro and hobby alike, use) can be more than .001 out over its length. The vast majority of the finest handmade furniture ever made was built by craftsmen that never fretted a thou.


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## DanielP (Mar 21, 2013)

> Sawstop claims they are made in USA. That, if it s completely true would eliminate a lot of the poor quality and alignment problems you see in Chinese made saws. Apparently the only thing the Chinese can do perfectly straight is a cyber attack
> 
> That being said, I think the old saying, "If it were perfect, it would cost a whole lot more" applies here. Personally, I would not expect even the best US made table saw to meet my criteria, which at this point is a deviation of + - .0005. That is why the William Ng 5 Cuts to a Perfect Cross-Cut Sled?
> sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QtwIwAGoVChMI7460nJj3xgIVETOICh24Egwd&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DUbG-n-LFgQ&ei=qfqzVa-WH5HmoAS4pbDoAQ&usg=AFQjCNGC0bYDXfHChouh93zyP8o4HvALAA&sig2=ByYdfAsuKRYc9h8ZwLkNrg is an important thing to know about. Have faith my friend, what God didn t give you, he gave you the tools to get.
> ...


It does say made in Taiwan, but I've been told that's better than China. Did some resaws on Bubinga yesterday and it went smooth without any burning so that's a good thing.

I'm in the process of making new sleds and might use the Ng method. Used it before and it worked pretty good.

Good luck with your move and hope your head heals properly.


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## DanielP (Mar 21, 2013)

> I have the ICS 5hp SS, and it was dead on out of the box. I had to align the fence but it was only a few thou out and that was with me assembling it,. Been running now for a good while, and zero complaints. Best saw I ever used. The only machine I ve used that i like better but does not have the safety feature is a Felder.
> 
> For those that don t own, well all I can say is bless their hearts.
> 
> ...


I guess it ticked me off to be the only person ever to actually have to fine tune the saw, but it's growing on me.


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## DanielP (Mar 21, 2013)

When it comes to making the mitered corners on small boxes, things have to be precise or ugly seams will be the result.

I don't use clamps, I wrap tape around in layers which creates force as each layer crimps down. If the joints don't fit exact I don't force it, I recut. Maybe that's why I make small boxes. (LOL)


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## AHuxley (Apr 22, 2009)

> When it comes to making the mitered corners on small boxes, things have to be precise or ugly seams will be the result.
> 
> - DanielP


When it comes to small box making I wonder if you considered the Bridge City JMPv2 Joint Maker Pro? When it comes to this type of work I have never seen a tool better engineered for the job. While not inexpensive the level of accuracy and precision are near impossible to match with a table saw, particularly anything short of a Martin or Altendorf.

http://www.bridgecitytools.com/default/tools/jointmaker/jointmakers/jmpv2-jointmaker-pro.html


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## Rich63 (Jul 24, 2015)

I bought a saw stop a year ago and it was perfect "out of the box". I have had no issues with any angle of alignment. The saw performance has been excellent. I surely hope you did not get a lemon. I echo earlier comments on customer service call or the business you bought it from.


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## Kazooman (Jan 20, 2013)

> Sawstop claims they are made in USA.
> 
> I have never figured out why people have this misconception, none of their saws have ever been made in the US, however, I have seen this over and over again on forums for 20+ years.
> 
> - AHuxley


The first SawStop was sold in 2004.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I am another who bought one and it was right on from the start. I have had it a couple of years now and still in alignment. I had a brake fire 6 months ago and rechecked it then and still perfect for me.

I am certain that there are some who want alignment within half a thousandth. That is not for me but if someone wants to do that and spend the time good for them. I would assume you would need to buy things like Starret tools which are made to that. Probably need to do a gauge R and R work to understand the variability of the measuring tool.

While I think some of the alignment goals mentioned are a bit much, the good thing about woodworking is that one gets to decide what to spend time on. If you want to spend a lot of time on alignment, that is great for you.

I ran a study on my measuring tools (mainly me) and the results were not good as I was the source of the majority of variation. I am currently trying to realign myself. ;-)


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

> Sawstop claims they are made in USA.
> 
> I have never figured out why people have this misconception, none of their saws have ever been made in the US, however, I have seen this over and over again on forums for 20+ years.
> 
> ...


Don't you dare interrupt his rant with *facts,* dammit.

Sawstop has never claimed to be made in the USA. Other people might mistakenly make that claim, but they are incorrect.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I have a SawStop and a Powermatic PM 2000. I only use my SawStop for ripping. I use my Powermatic for all other work. The Powermatic does a fine job. For ripping the Sawstop also does a fine job and I appreciate the safety features of the SawStop while ripping. I would hope that the SawStop would also do well with the other type work. However, the way that I'm operating with the two saws works very well and is quite convenient. Especially considering the way I have the saws setup in relation to each other.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## DanielP (Mar 21, 2013)

That Jointmaker Pro is an interesting tool.


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## AHuxley (Apr 22, 2009)

> The first SawStop was sold in 2004.
> 
> - Kazooman


Absolutely correct, I must have typed 20 when I meant 10, I didn't even know what a forum was in 1995.


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## Kazooman (Jan 20, 2013)

> The first SawStop was sold in 2004.
> 
> - Kazooman
> 
> ...


I knew what you meant, (just seeking a term for a long time), but I couldn't help myself from pointing out the problem with the twenty year timeframe. I hadn't even thought about the concept of there being lots of woodworking forums way back then also being a question. Time sure flies! .

I agree with you that there are a zillion statements on the Internet about SawStop being made in America, when SawStop has never claimed that. Kinda like an urban legend that has taken hold.

BTW, feel free to challenge my estimate of a zillion statements. I stand by it. I stopped short of counting just a bit before the zillion mark and I am certain it has now exceeded that benchmark.


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