# cabinet painting woes



## rut (Nov 17, 2011)

This project has lasted a year. I built kitchen cabinets out of maple and painted them (I know, don't get me started). I've had nothing but trouble trying to get the primer/paint to stick.

My prep is to sand with 220 and finish with 320 grit. I blow the dust off, wipe it down with a clean rag and use a graco truecoat airless sprayer to spray oil based primer. After two days I lightly sanded the primer smooth (it never seems to give a smooth finish) and then spray the latex paint (Pittsburgh Paints brand). It goes on smooth and dries nicely. Then you will see a spot not quite stuck down. It easily peels off, along with the rest of the paint in long sheets. The primer comes off also, nothing but bare wood (See pics).

I'm open to any suggestions as to why/how to get primer to stick to this wood. I've almost finished the whole project (3 doors remaining) but I'm not feeling great about the finished ones. They aren't peeling but I'm wondering if it is just a matter of time.


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## seriousturtle (Apr 13, 2009)

I've seen this happen when the wood has too much moisture in it. Then someone applies a finish, and soon after the moisture tries to leave the wood and bubbles off the finish. Did you check the wood with a moisture meter before finishing?


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## juniorjock (Feb 3, 2008)

I feel for you. Has to be a real pain . . . . Not sure I can help any, but try to not sand to the 320 or even 220. If you have a good surface, the paint will stay. If its fine, the paint has nothing to stick to.


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## kdc68 (Mar 2, 2012)

+1 *juniorjock's* advice…the primer needs a "tooth" ......sanding up to 120 (no higher than that) as a prep for primer should be fine….you can achieve the desired smoothness by sanding with fine sandpaper between subsequent coats of primer…that's my $.02


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## OliverArts (Apr 16, 2013)

My brother-in-law is a painting contractor and one thing I learn from him was to use oil base on kitchen cabinets. I just did a set of cabinets that were oak that were 20+ years old. Here's what I did. Chemical strip and sand down to 320. Spray oil based kilz and finish was oil based gloss.

I did have some doors a few years ago where this happened to me (the primer lifting off). It was moisture (I was spraying outside during fairly humid weather…I bought them into my shop for a few days brushed them and had no problems.

Moisture can cause this.


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## OliverArts (Apr 16, 2013)

Junior jock has a good point as well…too fine a surface can take the "tooth" out of maple


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

Sand no higher than 150. Lay down a coat of primer, let it dry. Lay down another, sand l i g h t l y with 220. Spray a coat of your (wifes) favorite color. Hit em again. Let cure a minimum of four days. Fresh paint on fresh paint ie cab doors on the frames can be a sticky situation.


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## rut (Nov 17, 2011)

Thanks. I had thought the wood was too smooth (if that is possible). I was afraid if it wasn't then the finish wouldn't be smooth. I'll go back to 150 and proceed as you recommend.


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## kdc68 (Mar 2, 2012)

*rut*...sanding between primer coats will achieve the desired smoothness…minimim two coats should do it.. then your ready for your latex


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## ClintSearl (Dec 8, 2011)

The primer is unnecessary. The latex will prime and stick just fine by itself regardless of the smoothness or moisture level of the wood.


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## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

Since you have spray gear…

I'm a big fan of tinting water based "lacquers" with paint. Much tougher than paint, it dries in 20 minutes, and no sticking or "blocking" later.

Spray it just as you would the clear finish.


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

What Barry said.
Crystalac, general finishes and target coatings all make white waterborne finishes.
I've used the crystalac whites in gloss and satin. Best results are after sealing the wood with zinsser sealcoat, otherwise it takes an extra couple of coats for complete coverage.


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## guitchess (Mar 31, 2008)

Another vote for too fine of finish grit, especially since you used oil based primer. If you are going back to bare wood, I would agree with the 150 finest grit, but I would also recommend moving to water based primer. My favorite is Zinsser, This step would eliminate the possibility of it being a moisture issue. I used to be a pro oil based guy, but it is not as good as it once was. They've had to change too many things to be EPA compliant.

My oldest set of painted cabinets are only about 8 years old. The only issue they have is hand prints around knobs/pulls and greasy residue above the stove.


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## pmayer (Jan 3, 2010)

While it is probably a good idea to refrain from finer grits, I can't believe that this is the root cause of your problem in the severe situation that you are dealing with. I could see where a piece might be slightly more prone to chipping when the raw wood was sanded to a finer grit, but I don't believe it would cause it to release in large sheets as is happening here. I am more suspicious of a moisture problem (whether from uncured primer or high moisture content in the wood itself) which would be expected to cause a problem like this.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

I don't think latex is a good choice for cabinetry. We paint a lot of cabinets for customers. We use lacquer based paints by ML Campbell. We spray it just as we would when using clear lacquer finish. The finish dries very hard, like automotive paint almost.


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## rut (Nov 17, 2011)

Wow! A lot of great suggestions here. I don't think humidty was the problem as they were painted in dry sunny conditions (unless the wood itself has too much moisture. I don't own a moisture meter so I don't know).

Switch to tinted lacquer probably isn't an option now that I've already done a lot of them (and so far it is holding up)

I have wondered if shellac based primer would adhere any better than the oil based. I have read that it is harder to sand (but not sure if that is true).

Regardless, I will try moving back to a lesser grit.

Thanks for all your replies.


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## Earlextech (Jan 13, 2011)

I say this at least once a day - Latex is never a proper finish for cabinetry or furniture.
As for it sticking or not, sanding to 220 is great for proper finishes, not so good for latex - 150 is about right. Also, it does seem like moisture in the wood may be an issue, but if you bought the wood at a lumberyard (kiln dried) it shouldn't be.
I would have sealed with Zinsser Seal Coat then top coated with waterborne lacquer/poly with a trans tint coloration. Waterborne is not latex. This is something that a lot of people are confused about. 
Also, that Graco gun is terrific for painting trim with latex, no so good for a furniture finish.


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## rut (Nov 17, 2011)

The paint is labeled interior alkyd. Not sure if that is the same as latex or not but the web site says it is recommended for cabinets. I'm sure it isn't as durable as lacquer. I've finished some guitars in a lacquer finish and know they have a tough finish after curing.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

I've done latex enamels for cabinets a lot because people don't want fumes in their homes. Never had a problem with adhesion or durability if it's a quality paint. I agree with the notion that maple is already really hard with small pores, and you didn't leave any tooth.


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## pmayer (Jan 3, 2010)

I don't suspect ambient humidity as the problem. That would cause a delay in curing, but I wouldn't expect an adhesion problem to the extent that you are experiencing. The moisture problem that I suspect would be in the lumber itself. If the moisture of the wood was high at the time it was painted, the moisture is trying to escape and has no place to go unless it pushes the paint out of the way.

Just a theory. If it was kiln dried and procured from a reputable supplier in your town then the risk of this is low. But if it is air dried stock then I am suspicious.


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

My wife just bought a gallon can of latex paint to paint a white mirror frame. It's peeling already. Moisture isn't too much of a problem with latex…which is why we use it to paint our houses. It is still somewhat vapor permeable…expanding to accommodate wood movement. And I would think that it's not a problem from an adhesion standpoint, since the wood is not new.

Latex does need a mechanical bond, so sanding shouldn't be too smooth. In fact, the instructions on most cans of latex (which still must be taken with a big grain of salt), usually say to sand glossy surfaces before painting.

However, the real problem is that you should be using old-based paint instead of water-based. While there are both water-based and oil-based interior alkyd paints, you can know for sure by how you clean your brush. If you are cleaning with soapy water, then it's latex and improper for your cabinets.


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## ClintSearl (Dec 8, 2011)

Contrary to some opinions (speculative perhaps), my experience (real life) is that latex/acrylic interior wall paint is the performance equivalent of any other finish for cabinetry. If it ain't, I'd sure like to know why something else is better.


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## dustyrusty (Dec 21, 2012)

When I painted our kitchen cabinet I used oil base polyurathane floor enamel. No primer ,just poly.

You know this might be god saying" thou shall not paint maple". Russ


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