# Is this the powder post beetle?!?!?!? Should I be concerned?



## jtm (Dec 2, 2013)

Hi all,

I'm in the process of finishing cherry stair treads. As I was about to give it a final sanding before staining, I noticed a few tiny holes on one board of one of the treads (each tread is a glue-up of three 3.5" boards). I remember reading once about powder post beetles, and I'm concerned that this might be what it is.

I immediately looked at the other 11 treads and could not find a single other hole. Then I looked through my entire pile of off-cuts, and I found one other piece with holes. Just based on the sapwood/grain pattern, it is entirely possible that this piece came from the same board that I used in the tread.

Curiosity got the best of me, so I cut a cross section right next to the hole. It looks like a channel that was bored by a beetle.

I'm obviously extremely concerned. I'm just about finished this entire stair project after three months, and the thought of finding a beetle infestation at the 11th hour is making me sick. Am I overreacting?

For the record, these boards were all kiln dried from a local hardwood dealer. Is it possible that the beetles had bored the holes, and then they were killed during the kiln drying? Since I already milled these and then found the holes, I was worried that these might have just happened. But when I cut the cross section, I could see that these channels can be fairly long. So I may have just exposed them when I planed the boards.

Is this a common thing in woodworking? What is the worst thing that could happen if I installed the stairs as is? Would I just end up with pinholes here and there? Or am I asking for a much bigger problem?

I've attached pics to show what I've found (the pencil is there for scale).


----------



## lanwater (May 14, 2010)

yes.

I did a blanket chest out of ash that show similar holes. 
Because it was kiln dry I thought all larvae inside would be dead.

I was dead wrong. The next spring ( about end of march) I saw fine wood dust on the chest and small pile on the floor. Same thing the second year and just 2 weeks ago.

I am about to dump it and make another one.


----------



## jtm (Dec 2, 2013)

So are you saying that I very well may have a $1000 pile of firewood?

If that's the case - as a newbie woodworker and after all the time and money I've spent on this project - I'd probably sell all my tools and say screw it.

I've done some research on Google and my stomach is in knots. I seriously cannot [removed] believe this.

Also, since I've kept this pile with all my other rough-cut lumber, does that mean I should toss that as well? Should I also be concerned that my workshop is in my basement?

Am I overreacting?


----------



## freddy1962 (Feb 27, 2014)

I wouldn't sell your tools or toss your lumber. I don't know enough about bugs or infestation to give you advice on that. EVERY project or job has sum sort of issue. Normally the kiln will take care of insects/larvae. I'm sure someone will be along to give better advice that has dealt with this issue. Relax.


----------



## jtm (Dec 2, 2013)

I wouldn't really sell my tools.

This is just soooooooo frustrating. I'm making these for my parent's house as a gift.

I started these in January, and have spent hours and hours and hours on them.
I bought the rough cut cherry from a local hardwood dealer. He has his own solar kiln, and a very reasonable price on cherry (~$4 b/f). So I bought what I thought would be sufficient.










Turns out, after milling, cutting around defects, and working around the fact that every piece cupped, twisted, and warped, I ended up with well over 50% waste (so that $4 a b/f just became $8+). Honestly, this stuff would be considered #2 common at best. (Is there even construction grade cherry? Because it was close).

I obviously needed quite a bit more, so I made the trip to Highland Hardwoods. This place is AMAZING. 
http://highlandhardwoods.com/

The cherry cost me about $6 b/f, but I got almost 100% yield out of it. They only sell FAS, and it was FAR FAR superior to the earlier stuff from the local guy.

Now, just based on the grain, I can tell the piece of cherry with the possible powderpost beetle came from the local guy. The problem with that is that because I wanted the treads to look uniform, I combined boards from both batches in almost every tread. So it's not like I could just dump some of them and keep the treads made from Highland Hardwood cherry.

So at this point, I'm not sure what to do. I obviously can't just install them and hope there won't be any issues down the road.

The easiest solution would be to just dump these and purchase pre-made cherry treads at a cost of approximately another $1000. I honestly don't have time to buy more rough cut cherry and start from scratch.

I just can't believe I noticed this at the last possible second. I was literally about to stain them tomorrow, and be completely finished by Monday.

Now I have no idea what's going on.


----------



## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

Call a reputable pest control company and see what they have to say. I don't doubt the treads and the rest of the lumber, or your whole shop for that matter, can be fumigated, but have no clue as to the cost.


----------



## Randy_ATX (Sep 18, 2011)

Since only one finished board has the problem I would try this with acetone and CA glue.
http://www.jliekim.com/2013/01/powderpost-beetle/


----------



## WDHLT15 (Aug 15, 2011)

You might be OK. Two things so far in your favor.

#1). PPB's don't usually infest cherry heartwood, only the sapwood.
#2). PPB tunnels will be filled with sawdust (frass). The tunnels will not be open. The tunnels that you show in the pic look open. Ambrosia beetles are common in hardwood, and they infest the tree right after it is cut down. When you saw and begin to dry the lumber, they leave. The holes are there, but the beetles are not. They are harmless except for leaving the holes. Many times, the ambrosia beetle holes and tunnels are black lined from a fungus that they bring in on their bodies.

Where are you located? Your stair treads can be sterilized in a kiln by heating the wood to 140 degrees internally and holding that temp for 4 hours. I usually get the kiln to 145 degrees and hold that for 24 hours to insure that the wood reaches an internal temp of 140 degrees for 4 or more hours. If you are anywhere close to Perry, GA, I can sterilize the treads for you in my kiln.

Check any wood that has the holes carefully by exposing the tunnels and see if the tunnels are filled with frass. There is also a product called Bora-Care that is made of disodium octaborate tetrahydrate plus some other compounds to aid absorption that you can use to treat the wood with, but you have to saturate the surface with the Bora-care so that it can be absorbed into the wood. The good thing is that if these are powder post beetles, the borate should kill them when the adults tunnel out therefore they will not be able to continue their life cycle, lay more eggs, and infest any other wood.

Don't lose hope yet.


----------



## tefinn (Sep 23, 2011)

I wouldn't worry about it. The holes you show in the pics are to small for PBs. PBs. are typically 1/16" in size and the holes are about the same. Their life cycle is around three years from egg to adult. As WDHLT15 stated, the tunnels will be filled with frass (excrement) and the tunnels would be quite extensive from the years of the larva living in the wood.

I'd cut up the piece you found with the holes to see if you find any of the above. You'll also come across larva or possibly some pupae or adults ready to emerge. If you find any of these, you could have a problem, but I don't think you will. Discard any wood with holes if you don't feel comfortable keeping it.

WDHLT15 recommended Bora-Care for treatment. That is good stuff, but treatment with any product containing salts of borate or boric acid will work. None of them will kill the eggs or larva in the wood, but it breaks the life cycle when the beetle eats it's way in or out of the wood. To kill anything in the wood you need heat (cheap, easy) or fumigation (very hard, expensive). I used to work in pest control and was licensed to apply pesticides.


----------



## PineChopper (May 21, 2012)

I'd say RAID to the rescue.
I used some kind of outdoor bug spray on logs I got from the mountains. Spray and let them set in the sun for a month before splitting and sawing.
It's been a year now and I haven't seen any more of the multi-legged offenders.


----------



## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

i use the bayer poison from homedepot works good or freeze the lumber. not sure about freezing it but i heard it works to hot here to try


----------



## woodchuckerNJ (Dec 4, 2013)

I second Tony S .. do some research online and then call a pest control company.
The cost might not be that severe.
You may have to tent the wood.

Insects are always a risk.


----------



## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

Gasoline and ice pick.

Set the boards out in the open.
Pour gasoline down each hole.
Set each hole on fire.
As each critter tries to escape, stab it with the ice pick.

Problem solved.


----------



## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

My son had these tiny critters in his hardwood flooring. He had to have several individual boards replaced.


----------



## jtm (Dec 2, 2013)

I'm thinking my best bet at this point would be to heat them to 140F.

However, I certainly don't have an oven with enough space to heat 4ft wide treads (x12).

Anyone in the greater New England area with the ability to do so?


----------



## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

Check with a local metalworking shop that does powder coating. They might have a large "oven".


----------



## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

Easy to heat to 140°

Build a plywood box large enough to hold your stock.

Load your wood into it.

Add a small electric fan and about 3-4 100 watt light bulbs.

Drill a hole, large enough for an oven thermometer, as far away from the lamps as you can get.

Roast wood until critters are dead.

(I would still like to see you with the gasoline and ice pick).


----------



## jtm (Dec 2, 2013)

Dallas.

I tried the gas trick this morning. I didn't see any beetles through the flames, so I assume if there were any there, they're gone now.

Only problem is that the wood is gone too…

On a serious note, will I have glue joint failure at 140F?


----------



## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

Yeah, you might.

I lost a guitar headstock when some moron turned a lamp on after I thought they were all off.

Once they cool, you shouldn't have any problem, even if the joint is still a bit soft. YOur application would put the stress trying to break the boards long ways. I doubt if you'll ever see enough stress from a foot to bother it.


----------



## jtm (Dec 2, 2013)

Dallas,

How should I build the oven?
And what is the fire risk with this procedure?


----------



## jtm (Dec 2, 2013)

Also, since half of the wood came from one single milled cherry tree, if I had a lot of beetles wouldn't I likely see a lot more holes in the other boards as well? As of right now, it's only one board on one single tread.


----------



## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

I think Borate is the answer. The problem is you need to saturate the wood with it. At least this is what I was told. The heat has been tried in the solar kiln…...?

Edit: Not sure I would want this wood in my house untreated. What if the critters crawl out next year and select a stud to nest in?


----------



## woodman71 (Apr 19, 2009)

Well I got to say I thought kiln dried lumber was killing all bugs. After doing some research online I found a lot of information. Some say yes some say yes and no . I found this one and I thought it might help I thought it give some good information and product called boracare. I hope this will help you here is the wed site information http://www.powderpostbeetles.com/treatments/beetles-in-lumber.html good luck


----------



## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

jtm, I really suspect that the single hole you are seeing is from a bug that was killed when the lumber was kiln dried. You would see tiny piles of powder fine dust below holes with and active infestation. You are a LOT more concerned than I would be at this point. PPbeetles are not like Formosan termites that will eat your house!


----------



## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

Gotta agree with gfadvm… this is probably a past infestation when the wood was alive, otherwise you would have evidence of filled holes. Empty holes would seem to indicate insects leaving, not entering.

JTM, I would build the oven with a 1' buffer on each side and end. 
My reasoning for the 3 lamps was so you can reduce the heat as needed. You don't want it to get over the flash point of your materials.

I used 6 25w bulbs on a small one I built and nearly burnt down our porch….. when it was +9°F.
I had to remove half of them, Later I added the muffin fan and the 3 lamps had to be traded out for 60w, but my box was only 40" on a side and had a clearance of 2' on each side of the lumber.


----------

