# NEW POWERMATIC PJ882



## WhoMe (Jul 9, 2009)

Wow, that is too bad. You would think that with a name and reputation like Powermatic, there would have been minimal issues. Since PM and Jet are under the same parent company, that doesn't bode well for either company if this is what they are putting out now. Hopefully this is not a trend and you just got a Monday machine…. 
Hopefully, everything gets resolved and once your joiner gets set up, you have a lifetime of good use out of it.


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## kajunkraft (May 7, 2012)

Jet/Powermatic/Meire(?) have recently been acquired by some financial entity. I have had questionable dealings with them lately and can't help but wonder if this changing of the guard has caused a decrease in quality issues in production, customer service, etc.?


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## mantwi (Mar 17, 2013)

You could have bought a Grizzly with a spiral cutterhead for around $1200.00. You would have saved how much, maybe a $1000.00 and the frustration you must be feeling about now. The Powermatic brand just changed, the Walter Meirer group sold it to New York private equity firm Tenex Capital Management. Meirer is a Swiss conglomerate with facilities in Taiwan and China as well European and American manufacturing operations. Guess where your jointer was probably made. I'd venture to say it wasn't the foundry in McMinnvlle and definitely not the former corporate headquarters in Lavergne Tenn. More like it is was someplace where rice is on the menu for lunch. Powermatic has been taking advantage of the Taiwanese production facilities for many years on their smaller products like 6" jointers and Artisan contractor saws. The new breed holding the reins are in it for a quick buck and fast turn around and guess who the losers are. Us. If it's possible I'd send it back, there are many brands today which though they couldn't equal the old Powermatic products now surpass the quality of this once great brand.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Too many things these days designed for the assembly line and not the end user.

Keeps us up to date on what happens Jeff.


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## RobWoodCutter (Jul 22, 2009)

That's a shame. I bought one over 5 years ago through Woodcraft and when it arrived the tables were dead on aligned, the blades set perfect and even the fence was dead on 90 deg to the table. It has run perfect. The only issue I have had was the motor shaft pulley came loose and the pulley shifted to the rear and began scraping against the rear belt guard making a horrible noise. Once it was readjusted and tightened it has been great since.

Rob


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## mbs (May 8, 2010)

I would be comfortable purchasing the OLD PM, Delta, and Porter Cable US made products but not their new stuff. Maybe their specialty equipment is still made in the US but the commodity type equipment is made over seas and the quality isn't the same is it was before. The Delta mortiser I purchased a few years ago is very poorly made. The Europeans still make good equipment.


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## mantwi (Mar 17, 2013)

Check out the review posted today on the Grizzly G0490X 3HP 8 in jointer w/ mobile base. What a difference. It verifies everything I said about the decline in quality in the old standbys and the rise in quality in many of the import competitors.


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

mantwi, you have been pretty emphatic in this thread as well as the Grizzly thread about the motivations of the new owners of Powermatic. You included a pretty broad statement: "The new breed holding the reins are in it for a quick buck and fast turn around and guess who the losers are."

Do you have evidence other than the experiences of the OP of this thread that the new owners are "in it for a quick buck?"


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Honestly I doubt the problems with this lathe have anything to do with the new owners, they haven't been in charge for very long. You never know the motivations of a group like Tenex but typically they save companies from bankruptcy then turn or divide them up for a quick profit. Companies like Delta and Powermatic have lost their way and stagnated while other companies like Grizzly and Sawstop are taking away their business. Maybe new ownership will be good in the long run, I don't think it can really be worse.


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## jeffk726 (Dec 10, 2013)

I guess the good part about this discussion is that it makes all aware that - in my opinion - that Powermatic is not a flawless product. I always viewed Powermatic as a step up from Delta. All of my current - life time tools - as I tell my wife - are 10-12 year old Delta tools which i have had zero problems with. The local service representative is coming tomorrow morning to review my problems with the jointer.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Above I meant to write jointer, not lathe. I've always viewed Powermatic as an overpriced Delta wannabe. They make excellent lathes (really I mean lathes this time), once upon a time made excellent radial arm saws and drill presses, and the rest of their machinery is good but doesn't justify the premium and never has. This is what put them near bankruptcy… when you consider that you can buy a Grizzly with near the same quality for half the price, most people are not going to spend the extra for yellow paint.


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## mantwi (Mar 17, 2013)

Mark Davisson: Just making an observation based on the facts. WHM Group purchased Powermatic in 1999 and introduced their new improved version of the machinery in 2001. Over the years since they acquired the company I began to see something pop up I'd never seen before. Negative reviews. I put a lot of stock in the experiences of the owners of these machines and either the happy ones don't share it or there is an inordinate number of disappointed customers. It looks like WHM cut quality, lived off the hard won good reputation the brand had then dumped it rather than addressing the issues others have reported. That looks like a fast buck and quick turn around to me. Perhaps the Tenex people will bring the Gold standard back but I have my doubts. My first table saw was a Powermatic model 63 Artisan (made in Taiwan by the way) I bought in 1992 and it was a pleasure to use. It came perfectly set up and with a decent blade cut as smooth as glass. I loved that saw and used it for years til I upgraded to a Jet Exacta Left tilt cabinet saw in 1996. Why is Jet getting better and Powermatic floundering? They were both owned by WHM. Just saying. I have always dreamed of owning a Powermatic 66 but it was out of reach financially, someday I hope to purchase a good used one. The old 66 is the undisputed king in my book but from what I've seen and read Powermatic no longer makes anything that's it's equal.


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## RobWoodCutter (Jul 22, 2009)

In all fairness:

The OP dis-appointment is about the setup QC and maybe about service.

But the fact is, this jointer is still built like a tank and should last a lifetime once aligned.

A couple of years ago, I spoke with a tech in Tenn. The only tool that is still manufactured in the USA is the PM 511 vertical panelsaw. All other of the Powermatic tools are manufactured elsewhere.

Rob


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## sanjuancabinets (Dec 9, 2013)

I hope you have a better experience with "Powermatic's service representative" than I did. I bought a new Powermatic helical head planer. Five minutes into the first planing job, while taking at most 1/16" of an inch off of a flat piece of mahogany, the motor began to smoke. When I hit the red shut-off button, it wouldn't shut off. I unplugged it and called the seller, a national woodworking chain. He refused to take it back and exchange it, and referred me to the local rep, who listened to my story and then referred me to a serviceman.

The serviceman came out the next day and immediately confirmed that the motor had burned out, and the starter contactor circuit was faulty. He called his contact at Powermatic for further instructions. I could only hear his side of the conversation, which went something like this: "It's burned out." Pause. "No, I'm sure it's burned out." Pause. "Look, I know these Chinese motors. This thing is fried." Long pause. "OK, if that's what you want." He hung up, rolled his eyes at me, and said, "They want me to remove the motor, take it back to my shop, and try to repair it." I was speechless. This was a brand new $3,000 tool which hadn't lasted five minutes into its first use. But the manufacturer wouldn't even accept his own rep's diagnosis, if there was even a hair of a chance of salvaging a few more dollars of corporate profit.

The rep took the motor back to his shop and performed the required autopsy, called Powermatic and told them the motor was really, truly dead, and called me to tell me the "good news" - Powermatic had agreed to replace the burned out motor! In about 10 days. What about my cabinet project, for which I had purchased this expensive tool? Should I call my clients and tell them I'll be ten days late in delivery? Woodcraft and Powermatic didn't care about any schedule. Why should I?

Ten days later the rep returned and put it in a new motor and starter unit. He told me that he isn't actually an employee of Powermatic, but an independent technician who has repair contracts with multiple manufacturers. "Powermatic is the worst", he told me. "They make me buy the parts." He had to pay for my replacement motor and starter out of his own pocket, and then wait for Powermatic to re-imburse him. "That's how they do it…I guess they don't trust me," he said with a wink.

I think that says it all.

That's what we're up against anymore: Chinese workmanship and American corporate greed…such a winning combination.


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

*Just making an observation based on the facts.*

mantwi, Tenex just (60 days ago) bought the Jet, Powermatic, Wilton lines. Your statement, *The new breed holding the reins are in it for a quick buck and fast turn around and guess who the losers are.* is based on what "facts?"

Daniel, you shared your negative experience with Powermatic and then made the statement, *That's what we're up against anymore: Chinese workmanship and American corporate greed…such a winning combination.* Did you experience American corporate greed while Powermatic was Swiss owned?


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## mantwi (Mar 17, 2013)

Mark Davisson: I have not blamed Tenex for anything, I just have little hope that they will turn things around. I'm sure the machine reviewed in this post predates the Tenex acquisition of Powermatic and am not saying they are responsible for the past. The question is do they have a Lee Iacocca? Someone who knows the business and what customers expect and strives to give it to them. It will be some time until that question is answered and I hope they do restore Powermatic to it's former quality. Time will tell.


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

*The new breed holding the reins are in it for a quick buck and fast turn around and guess who the losers are. Us.*

then

*I have not blamed Tenex for anything . . . *

mantwi, you are a puzzle!


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## mantwi (Mar 17, 2013)

Mark Davisson: "The new breed" is a reference to the corporations like WHM. Whether Tenex falls into that category is yet to be seen. How can you get the idea that I have held Tenex accountable for what WHM has done? I said Tenex had just purchased Powermatic and that in no way lays blame at their feet for products produced under WHM's watch. Tenex has yet to prove itself one way or the other and if they show themselves to be quality and customer service minded they will succeed, if not they'll take what they can then sell it off like WHM did. If it appears that I falsely judged them that was not my intent. They will write their own story with their actions and as I said I hope they do bring Powermatic back to it's previous standing. Practically speaking if you bought a 30 to $40,000.00 car and had to have it serviced as soon as you left the showroom floor because it was undriveable would you think it was a good product. What if this was a fairly frequent occurrence and numerous bad reviews were lodged against the maker? You know you'd be unhappy and rightly so. Why then should someone buy a machine at a premium price and not expect it to work as advertised? The jointer in the review is listed at about $2200.00, a Powermatic saw is over $3000.00. The product should be twice as good as the competition if it cost twice as much. The truth as it stands today is that it is not, just go through the reviews and see for yourself and keep in mind how small this sampling is. Sure there are some glowing reviews but the percentages aren't good. Table saws with humps in the tables, jointers with misaligned tables or motors that burn up after the first 5 minutes of use, This is the kind of thing you hear about Harbor Freight machinery not an industry leader. That's why I'm skeptical.


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

mantwi, you went to great lengths to support your belief that Powermatic has been making schlock. I'm not sure why you thought I needed to read that. My only question has related to your judgment of Tenex: *"The new breed holding the reins are in it for a quick buck and fast turn around and guess who the losers are."*

If you claim you weren't aiming that at Tenex but, rather, at "corporations like WHM," well then, ok.


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## jeffk726 (Dec 10, 2013)

After Service Technician Vist review. Im at the you have to be kidding me stage. I took off a couple of hours of work to wait for him, he came - explained my concerns and left for work. Apparently he was there three hours. I ended up calling service center after lunch and spoke with the tech who performed the work. Gave me a bunch of mumbo jumbo about what was wrong with it. Said he left a piece of wood on it - works fine. When I finally got home - I was ready for perfection. Complete BS. Yeah the piece of wood was jointed but so what - the knives were not set. Without proper tools on hand to check complete alignment - I jointed 2 pieces of wood and put them together hoping for a seamless fit - nope. A four inch piece of wood edge jointed while standing up on the table with a machinist square - bottom of square up against the wood - 3/32" gap on the top. Surely doesnt look set to me - now I get to call servcie center back today. Now its not just the manufacturer - it is the service center too. This may be the end of the road with Powernmatic for me. Completely disatisfied. How much time is expected to get a new tool ready to use? I suppose I should just set the knives myself and hopefully be done with it but Im having trouble getting past the point where it was sent non functional - then fixed by a service rep and I still cant use it.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

A four inch piece of wood edge jointed while standing up on the table with a machinist square - bottom of square up against the wood - 3/32" gap on the top.

I might be misunderstanding what you mean. Did you edge joint a 4" wide board and then check for the newly jointed edge to be perpendicular to the face of the board that you ran against the jointer fence? Did you also use the square to check that the fence is perpendicular to the jointer's tables? When jointing the board, did you hold the face of the board flat against the fence?

I'm sorry if some of this has been covered. I have not read all the comments above - it looks like the discussion has been meandering.


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## jeffk726 (Dec 10, 2013)

Properly jointed the piece of wood flat up against the fence - the fence is 90 degree perpendicular to the table - the cutter heads were never reset to the table after setting beds coplaner.


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