# Splines vs Biscuit Joiner



## RonPeters (Jul 7, 2010)

*What I have learned*

I'm building cabinets for under my bench. I'm following the 'plans' provided and they call for splines and slots.

From the plans:










So, I spent the better part of a day routing out 1/4" deep 1/8" slots in 3/4" birch ply which mates up with some rock maple edging with corresponding slots. I'm thinking "Hey, this is going to look really cool, birch and maple." Got the splines cut and started dry assembly only to discover that the router slot wasn't as 'clean' as I'd like. There was a little wandering in the ply and it isn't going to 'match up' and not just a little spot, but more than I care to sand down.

How the heck did that happen? I thought for sure I held that router steady and took my time, yet it turned out lousy!!

After reading here I figured that a biscuit joiner was the way to go. So, off to the local big box to see what they have. I looked at the PC 557 $219! Dang that's expensive, but you get 2 blades and 7 settings. Ryobi has one for $100, but it has only 3 settings. Huh? Looked at the Freud from Italy $125 - they make great blades, 5 yr warr… Dewalt $199…? Decisions, decisions…

This 'trip' took about 3 hours, because HD carries 'X' and Lowes carries 'Y'. Back and forth to 3 stores in total because Lowes #1 was out, so off to #2 only to learn they were too. (Makes me wonder if they are having cash flow issues not having inventory?) Finally fed up with the run around, I returned to HD and got the PC 557. It was only $20 more than the Dewalt.

I haven't used it yet, but plan to tomorrow. I'm attempting to 'save' the material I've slotted by gluing splines in and will trim them to size before using the PC 557. Wish me luck! I'll take some pictures of the progress.

What I've learned - if you want a professional job - splines and slots are *not* the way to go. Also, check the contents of the purchase! I went home and opened my new tool only to discover that someone took the 4" blade. In fact, it looked as if they used the tool (or swapped their old one?) because it was dirty. I returned it for a 'new' machine. Look for a black wire tie locking the case from the factory - if it's broken/missing make sure you check contents. The new box had one.

The gal assured me they check the returns, but seriously, how many folks would actually check for the blade? Apparently, none.


----------



## Pete_Jud (Feb 15, 2008)

RonPeters said:


> *What I have learned*
> 
> I'm building cabinets for under my bench. I'm following the 'plans' provided and they call for splines and slots.
> 
> ...


I have the same PC for a couple of years, and have used it for a lot more than cutting the bisc's. Not cheap but seems well worth the bucks.


----------



## BritBoxmaker (Feb 1, 2010)

RonPeters said:


> *What I have learned*
> 
> I'm building cabinets for under my bench. I'm following the 'plans' provided and they call for splines and slots.
> 
> ...


Biscuits are a lot easier than splines/slots, good move. Personally I use a slot cutting bit in the router in my router table for this. Not as manoueverable as a biscuit jointer but at about $30 a lot cheaper.


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

RonPeters said:


> *What I have learned*
> 
> I'm building cabinets for under my bench. I'm following the 'plans' provided and they call for splines and slots.
> 
> ...


I don't think you will regret paying the price for the better quality joiner. With a little jig screwed on to it you can also use it to easily cut spline openings into the corners of mitered boxes. You can find details of the jig on FWW mags. website if you are interested.


----------



## Marc5 (Apr 1, 2009)

RonPeters said:


> *What I have learned*
> 
> I'm building cabinets for under my bench. I'm following the 'plans' provided and they call for splines and slots.
> 
> ...


I'll take biscuits over splines all day long. I am not sure if it really strengthens the joint but it sure makes line up a snap.


----------



## Apex (Jul 26, 2010)

RonPeters said:


> *What I have learned*
> 
> I'm building cabinets for under my bench. I'm following the 'plans' provided and they call for splines and slots.
> 
> ...


I have used the Porter Cable model for years, it has many features that you may not use everyday but they will come in handy. I recently used it to cut slots in deck boards so I could use hidden fasteners on the deck. It is much easier to be accurate with a joiner than splines.

Utah carpenter


----------



## davidroberts (Nov 8, 2008)

RonPeters said:


> *What I have learned*
> 
> I'm building cabinets for under my bench. I'm following the 'plans' provided and they call for splines and slots.
> 
> ...


Here's a tip I learned a while back. You can cut a groove on both pieces you what to join using a slot bit on the router table. Then place the biscuits in the groove. No alignment problems. This works great on mitered stock because the groove is covered by the mitered end. BTW I do use the PC 557 alot for cabinets and edge banding, when I actually get around to building cabinets.


----------



## RonPeters (Jul 7, 2010)

*Progress!*

Spent the day filling in the spline slots and trimming. Used the PC 557 to set biscuits and glued up one mitered side. Plan to glue up the other side in a few hours after this one sets up. Then on to the top, back, and bottom before attaching the sides. Drawers after that.

I am totally impressed with the biscuit joiner. It will save me hours of time and improve my accuracy 100%.

All I can say is WOW! What an invention.


----------



## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

RonPeters said:


> *Progress!*
> 
> Spent the day filling in the spline slots and trimming. Used the PC 557 to set biscuits and glued up one mitered side. Plan to glue up the other side in a few hours after this one sets up. Then on to the top, back, and bottom before attaching the sides. Drawers after that.
> 
> ...


I use them too I am making a small table 21×34 and I used biscuits on the top, I will use pocket screews to to tie the top to the rallings and on my legs, I love those pocket hole screews.


----------



## davidroberts (Nov 8, 2008)

RonPeters said:


> *Progress!*
> 
> Spent the day filling in the spline slots and trimming. Used the PC 557 to set biscuits and glued up one mitered side. Plan to glue up the other side in a few hours after this one sets up. Then on to the top, back, and bottom before attaching the sides. Drawers after that.
> 
> ...


This month's FWW magazine has an article on cutting miters for edge trim and using biscuits. I swear your pics look very similar to the pics in the article. Of course you are both doing the same thing. I just thought what a coincidence.


----------



## RonPeters (Jul 7, 2010)

*Assembly At Last*

Being that space is at a premium - I have to move 'this' to do 'that' - I decided to add shelf/drawers for storage under the bench. I've been slowly progressing - until I discovered the biscuit joiner! I now have the carcass assembled and oiled! Here's the oiled carcass:










I checked for square as much as possible. I even clamped the square to the sides. Pretty darn close considering. I may be 1/16th off end to end? I'm certain I could do even better with better equipment.

Is it square? You bet!









Note the table to the right? It's gone and the bench is perpendicular to where it sits here. 









Some creative clamping. Tow straps!









The dilemma I faced was that I had planned on putting in a front vise, but then decided that the Groz I have is really too big for this bench. I then settled on this Czech vise I picked up from Lee Valley. It's a little lighter weight. I just drilled the holes and tested the fit.










The vise has to be installed before the carcass can be. Today, I cleaned up the shop. I removed the 6' table (the plan all along) and rotated the bench 90 degrees which opened up a lot of space. It's still a mess of progress, but I hate to put it all away if I'm still using the tools.

When I get disillusioned I step outside and check out the view around here:










Tomorrow, back to the day job. When I get home I'll finish the vise. I'll then put the carcass under the bench.

Next… the front door and drawers….


----------



## dub560 (Jun 4, 2010)

RonPeters said:


> *Assembly At Last*
> 
> Being that space is at a premium - I have to move 'this' to do 'that' - I decided to add shelf/drawers for storage under the bench. I've been slowly progressing - until I discovered the biscuit joiner! I now have the carcass assembled and oiled! Here's the oiled carcass:
> 
> ...


Hard work always pays off. It looks good my friend..by the way that view of the sky is stunning just looking at brings me peace


----------



## Robb (Aug 18, 2007)

RonPeters said:


> *Assembly At Last*
> 
> Being that space is at a premium - I have to move 'this' to do 'that' - I decided to add shelf/drawers for storage under the bench. I've been slowly progressing - until I discovered the biscuit joiner! I now have the carcass assembled and oiled! Here's the oiled carcass:
> 
> ...


Looks great, Ron! I was just saying to my wife that the projects for my shop never make it to the "priority list". Good to see that my affliction isn't universal! Keep on keeping on!


----------



## Karson (May 9, 2006)

RonPeters said:


> *Assembly At Last*
> 
> Being that space is at a premium - I have to move 'this' to do 'that' - I decided to add shelf/drawers for storage under the bench. I've been slowly progressing - until I discovered the biscuit joiner! I now have the carcass assembled and oiled! Here's the oiled carcass:
> 
> ...


Ron A great job. Nice blog on the build.


----------



## RonPeters (Jul 7, 2010)

RonPeters said:


> *Assembly At Last*
> 
> Being that space is at a premium - I have to move 'this' to do 'that' - I decided to add shelf/drawers for storage under the bench. I've been slowly progressing - until I discovered the biscuit joiner! I now have the carcass assembled and oiled! Here's the oiled carcass:
> 
> ...


Thanks guys, that's Pike's Peak in the distance. 14110 feet - I'm at 7K.


----------



## daddymunster (Feb 23, 2010)

RonPeters said:


> *Assembly At Last*
> 
> Being that space is at a premium - I have to move 'this' to do 'that' - I decided to add shelf/drawers for storage under the bench. I've been slowly progressing - until I discovered the biscuit joiner! I now have the carcass assembled and oiled! Here's the oiled carcass:
> 
> ...


Tremendous view Ron!


----------



## RonPeters (Jul 7, 2010)

*Carcass Installed*

Here's the carcass installed. I oiled it the same as the bench. Sanded it a little to knock off the fuzz. I didn't finish it all out as this is just a box for storage.










Next is to make the door for the left side and drawers for the right

The vise is completed. It has about a 3" throat because the dog block thickness is also about 3". It probably should be closer to the left edge, but I don't plan to be cutting anything - got a chop saw for that. Mostly violin making and this vise will allow me to plane and join the quarter sawn tops and backs for a mirror image. It's still a bit stiff on the quick release, but it should wear in after use.










Here's a close up of the handle detail. What you have here is a 1" rubber "O" ring from Auto Zone $1. It helps keep the noise level down. The handle is 1-1/8" Poplar? from Lowes. It fits nicely in the whatever that end piece is called. You can buy a cheap finished handle with plastic ends (that look like the end of a cane?) for about $12 or so. I have about $12 in two handles and still have about 2 feet of dowel left!










Next is the rosette ends. It's used in the corners of trim above an old style door. I cut them round on the band saw and sanded to shape.


----------



## Eric_S (Aug 26, 2009)

RonPeters said:


> *Carcass Installed*
> 
> Here's the carcass installed. I oiled it the same as the bench. Sanded it a little to knock off the fuzz. I didn't finish it all out as this is just a box for storage.
> 
> ...


Thats a beautiful bench Ron. I hope you get many great years out of it.


----------



## Karson (May 9, 2006)

RonPeters said:


> *Carcass Installed*
> 
> Here's the carcass installed. I oiled it the same as the bench. Sanded it a little to knock off the fuzz. I didn't finish it all out as this is just a box for storage.
> 
> ...


Great bench> I like your storage under it. I built storage like that for my bench, but I put in drawers.


----------



## RonPeters (Jul 7, 2010)

RonPeters said:


> *Carcass Installed*
> 
> Here's the carcass installed. I oiled it the same as the bench. Sanded it a little to knock off the fuzz. I didn't finish it all out as this is just a box for storage.
> 
> ...


Yes, drawers will be next to install. Had to get this far to start the drawers.

Nice bench Karson! What kind of wood face is that? Beautiful….


----------



## Karson (May 9, 2006)

RonPeters said:


> *Carcass Installed*
> 
> Here's the carcass installed. I oiled it the same as the bench. Sanded it a little to knock off the fuzz. I didn't finish it all out as this is just a box for storage.
> 
> ...


It's Waterfall Bubinga. The waterfall is the pattern.

I picked up a lot of veneer many years ago and i figured that I need to use some up.


----------



## RonPeters (Jul 7, 2010)

*Sliding Door Issues!*

Ok, I have this sliding door that just wouldn't slide smoothly through the slot in the wood! Grrr, this was a problem. It can't work like this. There must be a better way. I was making sawdust pushing it in and out and that can't be good… the slot - there's two btw…










The plans were none to clear, in fact they call for a wooden dowel. How long would that last before wearing out? So, I opted for the smooth shank on a 1/4" wood bolt. Hacked the hex head off, then the screw end and I had a nice 1/4" steel rod 3/4" long. I polished the ends and fit them to the door - see before pic. That's when 'the issue' happened! It wouldn't slide for nothing! Push, pull, tussle, tug grumble grrrr…

Tried bees wax, couldn't get the wax in the 1/4" slot. Should I heat it up? Too complicated. It has to be simpler! I'm thinking of all these 'fixes' - a plastic insert? maybe there's a center slide I could install on the underside of the top? Nope. Back to the drawing board.

I decided to round off the ends more than I thought necessary on the first attempt. Chucked the rod in my drill press and mill bastarded it. Smoothed it off with some 400 w/d paper. Put it back in the door and WOW! it was amazing! Just as if it was designed that way.

before










after










Small successes sure make the job fun. Now that this part is out of the way, I'm on to making drawers next.


----------



## Karson (May 9, 2006)

RonPeters said:


> *Sliding Door Issues!*
> 
> Ok, I have this sliding door that just wouldn't slide smoothly through the slot in the wood! Grrr, this was a problem. It can't work like this. There must be a better way. I was making sawdust pushing it in and out and that can't be good… the slot - there's two btw…
> 
> ...


Looks good Ron. A nice modification.


----------



## dub560 (Jun 4, 2010)

RonPeters said:


> *Sliding Door Issues!*
> 
> Ok, I have this sliding door that just wouldn't slide smoothly through the slot in the wood! Grrr, this was a problem. It can't work like this. There must be a better way. I was making sawdust pushing it in and out and that can't be good… the slot - there's two btw…
> 
> ...


Nice work..solid work bench u got there


----------



## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

RonPeters said:


> *Sliding Door Issues!*
> 
> Ok, I have this sliding door that just wouldn't slide smoothly through the slot in the wood! Grrr, this was a problem. It can't work like this. There must be a better way. I was making sawdust pushing it in and out and that can't be good… the slot - there's two btw…
> 
> ...


Great fix! Maybe an old tooth brush would have helped with the bee's wax?


----------



## RonPeters (Jul 7, 2010)

*Quick drawer question for the more experienced!*

Ok, so I've changed the design of the drawers a bit on my bench cabinet. I decided that instead of sliding on wood rails - per the plan - that it would be much better to use side mount ball bearing sliders.

The plan calls for 19-3/4" deep (carcass is 20" deep) but they don't make 19" sliders. I got 18"s.

The width of the drawer is 23" (I know, I've read that they shouldn't be wider than the slider, oh well…) Depth of the drawer is 3-3/4" and there will be a 3/16" thick bottom within that dimension. I figure it's not going to hold 100lbs of stuff (limit on the slider pair).

*The Question*: Should I make the drawers 18" deep to fit the slider, or is there a fudge factor allowed where I could make them say, 19" deep?

Drawers are new to me…thank you….

Ron


----------



## Gregn (Mar 26, 2010)

RonPeters said:


> *Quick drawer question for the more experienced!*
> 
> Ok, so I've changed the design of the drawers a bit on my bench cabinet. I decided that instead of sliding on wood rails - per the plan - that it would be much better to use side mount ball bearing sliders.
> 
> ...


Have to agree with Shopguryl. The last 1 3/4" won't make much of a difference and will still allow you to see to the back of the drawer enough to find whatever you may be looking for. You'll enjoy the ease of opening and closing the drawers as much as you will be in them. The 100 pound rating will give you the added assurance the guides holding up to its constant use.


----------



## Karson (May 9, 2006)

RonPeters said:


> *Quick drawer question for the more experienced!*
> 
> Ok, so I've changed the design of the drawers a bit on my bench cabinet. I decided that instead of sliding on wood rails - per the plan - that it would be much better to use side mount ball bearing sliders.
> 
> ...


I made mine drawers deeper and that hidden space always collects stuff that I can't find.

Shorten the drawer unless you can get slides that open more than the depth of the drawer. They actually open more than 100%


----------



## RonPeters (Jul 7, 2010)

RonPeters said:


> *Quick drawer question for the more experienced!*
> 
> Ok, so I've changed the design of the drawers a bit on my bench cabinet. I decided that instead of sliding on wood rails - per the plan - that it would be much better to use side mount ball bearing sliders.
> 
> ...


Yes, full extension guides.

Thanks! Just what I needed. I haven't cut the drawers yet and my board stretcher is on the blink! Hate to screw it up first go-round….


----------



## RonPeters (Jul 7, 2010)

*The box joint drawers*

Continuing my progress I decided that the box joint, per the plan, was the way to go. Instead of 5 drawers I did four. I had all 5 cut, but figured one extra big drawer would be more useful than 3 smaller, so I used the biscuit joiner to combine one of the two big ones with one of the small. It saved me from buying more wood and gave me more practice with the joiner.

I checked around for plans for a box joint jig and decided that the one from Shopnotes.com (PlansNow) was the better of the two. In retrospect, next time I'd go buy a Porter Cable type dovetail jig for a couple hundred and save myself a ton of time, but I had fun putting the kit together - 'kit' meaning I happened to have a piece of oak laying around and had to scrounge for the parts all over town. The best place I found for pieces parts is ACE hardware. They really have it all. Maple was 'recommended' - Oak is terrible to drill.

The bottoms are 3/16" underlayment. Really inexpensive and mahogany veneer!

front of jig









back of jig Note the bigger side knobs? I modified the plan. Much more torque and easier to turn than those recommended.










Here's one of the 3 3/4" drawers.









closeup of the box joint









Clamped to dry









The 2nd largest drawer (3 3/4") on the left with the 6" drawer waiting - note the two-tone joined pieces? A combination of the two.









Observations:
The box joint jig worked great. It's a lot slower than using a commercial type router-jig however. Surprisingly, it's very accurate. Is most promising feature is that it's adjustable. Just dial in the size joint you want, this from 1/8" to 1 1/4" - or larger, if you constructed the jig to accommodate the size desired.

What would I change if I make drawers again? I'd choose a 3/16" (or larger) box joint instead of the 1/4" especially for the big drawer. It was a struggle getting it together with all that friction - they were fairly tight joints. The 1/4's look nice on the boxes I've seen made here though.

I would also make the cut a hair deeper to make certain the joint ears flushed with the sides. I'm only a gnat's ear proud, but ya know!

I have some of the 3/4 birch ply carcass left over that I'll use as fronts on the drawers. I'm framing them 1/4" with some of the bench maple to hide the laminate to match the front sliding face on the left half.


----------



## dub560 (Jun 4, 2010)

RonPeters said:


> *The box joint drawers*
> 
> Continuing my progress I decided that the box joint, per the plan, was the way to go. Instead of 5 drawers I did four. I had all 5 cut, but figured one extra big drawer would be more useful than 3 smaller, so I used the biscuit joiner to combine one of the two big ones with one of the small. It saved me from buying more wood and gave me more practice with the joiner.
> 
> ...


looking good there cap..


----------



## Roz (Jan 13, 2008)

RonPeters said:


> *The box joint drawers*
> 
> Continuing my progress I decided that the box joint, per the plan, was the way to go. Instead of 5 drawers I did four. I had all 5 cut, but figured one extra big drawer would be more useful than 3 smaller, so I used the biscuit joiner to combine one of the two big ones with one of the small. It saved me from buying more wood and gave me more practice with the joiner.
> 
> ...


That is the most complex box joint jig I have ever seen. I am doing a project using box joints now and made a simple jig from scrap lying around. It takes a couple of passes on a test piece and you're lined up and ready.

What does the sliding piece on the end of the jig do? Does it set the width of the cut?

I too have found that it is best to cut the joints about a 1/32 proud and sand it flush to insure a flush finish even when the material is not dead flat.

Thanks for the post, very interesting.


----------



## RonPeters (Jul 7, 2010)

RonPeters said:


> *The box joint drawers*
> 
> Continuing my progress I decided that the box joint, per the plan, was the way to go. Instead of 5 drawers I did four. I had all 5 cut, but figured one extra big drawer would be more useful than 3 smaller, so I used the biscuit joiner to combine one of the two big ones with one of the small. It saved me from buying more wood and gave me more practice with the joiner.
> 
> ...


Yes the side piece sets the width of the joint.

Thanks


----------



## RonPeters (Jul 7, 2010)

*Finally it is FINISHED!*

Ok, I've been working on this for about 18 months. A little here and a little there… a piece at a time. It's finally finished and now I can move on to making instruments.

I never built a bench, or anything else - unless you consider that bowl I turned in wood shop 45 years ago? - so there was some learning curve involved. I never: made box joints or drawers, glued up a top, made and installed mortise & tenon's, installed a vice - let alone two different kinds. I'm actually surprised at how well it turned out. I don't consider myself a 'wood worker' in the traditional sense. It's like, 'Hey! I can do this!" Wow!!

Drawers are in and they actually work! Handles are on. It's oiled. I'm planning to build some inserts for dividers in the top drawers, but that's not a major project…

I may throw in a TV stand in the future, also some more 'legs' as I have a nice maple flat table top that needs some support, but for the most part, it is DONE! May I present: THE BENCH!










Drawers from the side…










All set and ready to go!










Thanks to all you LJ's who have given me ideas and encouragement over the last couple months!


----------



## daddymunster (Feb 23, 2010)

RonPeters said:


> *Finally it is FINISHED!*
> 
> Ok, I've been working on this for about 18 months. A little here and a little there… a piece at a time. It's finally finished and now I can move on to making instruments.
> 
> ...


Ron…Congrats! It's a beauty and you will surely enjoy it for a long time. You will pretty much have everything within easy reach….gouges, hand tools, etc. Bet it makes a huge difference for your future work. Looking forward to seeing more!


----------



## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

RonPeters said:


> *Finally it is FINISHED!*
> 
> Ok, I've been working on this for about 18 months. A little here and a little there… a piece at a time. It's finally finished and now I can move on to making instruments.
> 
> ...


Its beautiful.


----------



## toddc (Mar 6, 2007)

RonPeters said:


> *Finally it is FINISHED!*
> 
> Ok, I've been working on this for about 18 months. A little here and a little there… a piece at a time. It's finally finished and now I can move on to making instruments.
> 
> ...


That is absolutely gorgeous! It exudes craftsmanship from all angles.

Well done!


----------



## stevecabinum (Sep 26, 2010)

RonPeters said:


> *Finally it is FINISHED!*
> 
> Ok, I've been working on this for about 18 months. A little here and a little there… a piece at a time. It's finally finished and now I can move on to making instruments.
> 
> ...


Exceptional work Ron! Is that an original design of yours? Looking forward to seeing the instruments . . .


----------



## Karson (May 9, 2006)

RonPeters said:


> *Finally it is FINISHED!*
> 
> Ok, I've been working on this for about 18 months. A little here and a little there… a piece at a time. It's finally finished and now I can move on to making instruments.
> 
> ...


Ron: Very good. It's a beautiful job.


----------



## SPalm (Oct 9, 2007)

RonPeters said:


> *Finally it is FINISHED!*
> 
> Ok, I've been working on this for about 18 months. A little here and a little there… a piece at a time. It's finally finished and now I can move on to making instruments.
> 
> ...


Congrats. That is a beauty.
It has been fun watching it all come together

Well done Sir,
Steve


----------



## dub560 (Jun 4, 2010)

RonPeters said:


> *Finally it is FINISHED!*
> 
> Ok, I've been working on this for about 18 months. A little here and a little there… a piece at a time. It's finally finished and now I can move on to making instruments.
> 
> ...


Hard work pays off in the end. It looks good and now just enjoy putting it to use my friend


----------



## Roz (Jan 13, 2008)

RonPeters said:


> *Finally it is FINISHED!*
> 
> Ok, I've been working on this for about 18 months. A little here and a little there… a piece at a time. It's finally finished and now I can move on to making instruments.
> 
> ...


Very very nice work. I am going to study this closely.


----------

