# What do I need to make hand-cut dovetails?



## Chris208 (Mar 8, 2012)

Hi LJs!

I want to learn how to cut dovetails by hand, but I'm not sure what tools I will need to accomplish this feat.

Can you please provide info on this?

Thanks,

Chris


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## Kookaburra (Apr 23, 2012)

The only things you really need are a chisel and a saw. A very sharp chisel. A dovetail saw is nice but not required, but you want a saw for fine cutting, so small teeth!

Oh, and some kind of measuring and marking tools.

ETA, another LJ posted this link to a good practice exercise!
http://www.startwoodworking.com/post/practice-your-dovetail-joints


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

The tool list includes:

- A dovetail saw
- A marking gauge
- A sharp pencil or marking knife
- A set (I'd suggest at least four piece) of good bevel-edged chisels
- A mallet of some sort for striking said chisels
- A decent coping saw

All the usual caveats, too. "This is what I use, others will suggest other things, don't have to have but one chisel, I don't use a coping saw, etc. etc. etc." 

There are a number of blog entries in my past here on LJs if you're curious, and many many more here that do much finer work that I. Good luck!


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

To start learning them, a dovetail saw (or as Kay mentioned, any saw, fine teeth preferred) 
I used a pair of chisels. One smaller and one larger, depending on the area to be pared.
Marking device.

Technically, all you *need* would be a coping saw, if you were that good with it…

Me? I use dovetails aw, chisels, fret/jewelers saw (I like it more than a coping saw), chisels, and sometimes a fine rasp. I also have a pair of Veritas dovetail markers, and marking gauge that I use.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Tools aside for the moment Chris, what you need is practice, practice, practice. Also, unless you do them frequently (IMHO) you lose your edge. One you start doing them nice and tight and then quit for a month they probably won't be nice and tight the next time you try them. That's why so many of the LJs "warm up" when they know their next project will include dovetails. Also, there are tons of very nice "how to's" on Youtube. Good luck.


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## CplSteel (Jun 22, 2012)

what you need is a couple hundred board feet of lumber.

Marking Gauge, Saw with fine teeth, paring chisel to clean it up and a way to keep those chisels sharp (paring chisels don't need to be hit and shouldn't be hit if you want them to be sharp, you can get a mortising chisel with a thicker blade specifically designed to be hit, the different tang and handle will let you know).

I have tried with a coping or fret saw and can't get them to cut straight. Now I use a fine kerf Japanese saw to cut the tails and hog out the middle with a few cuts from a backsaw, and I clean it up with the chisels.

Then again, my dovetails suck.


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## barecycles (Jan 10, 2012)

Yeah, I agree on the much practice and much lumber comments.

But all you really need is a good saw and Paul Sellers standing over your shoulder watching you make your first cuts.


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## Kelby (Oct 19, 2011)

Practice.


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## sikrap (Mar 15, 2009)

The dvd "Dovetailing Apprenticeship" by Charles Bender is excellent. As for tools, I think you'll need a saw (dovetail, japanese, coping, fret, etc.), some well sharpened chisels, a marking gauge and a mallet.


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## khays (Aug 16, 2009)

Practice, practice, practice. Sharp saw and chisels for sure, if they are not sharp forget it. I went and bought some cheap pine from lowes at 4f x 1/2" x 4" and used that for practice. I didn't want to waste my maple, oak, walnut or cherry 

I made my own dovetail marker, sorta like the veritas one out of 1/4 hardwood with a dado/rabbit joint. Works like a charm and saved myself some money


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## 12strings (Nov 15, 2011)

To go with the already good advice:

REQUIRED: a saw and a sharp Chisel…(I started using the backsaw that came with my $10 stanley yellow mitre box…)
RECOMENDED: a marking guage, to help you ark the baseline…you can do it with a square, but it is difficult to mark the same on both sides of the boards….AND a mallet, because pushing a chisel through lots of wood is easier with some sort of hammer. 
NICE, BUT NOT NECESSARY: coping saw or fret saw…I say this because you can just chisel out the waste, but sawing most of it out first is faster.

People cut nice dovetails with lots of saws: hack-saws, frame saws, dovetail saws, even big panel saws…but It seems that most people prefer something with a stiff spine to keep the saw straight.


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## Tootles (Jul 21, 2011)

So far, nobody has mentioned a sliding bevel. You can manage without one if you have to, but it is way better to mark everything out accurately. The alternative to a marking guage is dovetail guages.

Other than that I use:

marking guage or try square
marking knife or sharp pencil
tenon or dovetail saw (small teeth)
chisels appropriate for size and hardness of wood (I only own bevel edged chisels, but I don't generally tackle wood hard enough to require mortice chisels)
mallet


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## cdarney (Feb 7, 2010)

I would say along with the Practice, Practice, Practice is Patience, Patience, Patience.

I found cutting my own dovetails very rewarding and by the time I got finished my first project I was getting pretty good. When my wife saw how long it was taking me she bought me a dovetail jig. I still like doing it by hand.

Practice with cheap softer wood. Pine was suggested. I liked using poplar. When you get the process down with practice wood, write the process on the practice pieces…like "cut tails first" or "widen for a tighter fit". Also mark what is a "tail" and what is a "pin". This may be all second nature to some but I don't cut dovetails that often and the long term memory might not be quite as good.

Above all, have fun with them.


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## jamesicus (Jan 11, 2011)

For those who are old (like me) with shaky hands and diminished vision:

http://jp29.org/wwdt.htm


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## jdmaher (May 4, 2011)

jamesicus,

Thanks for that link.

While I won't cop to the "old" part (though I ain't no spring chicken), my hands are shaky and my eyes are weak.

Your link should help.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Or, you can make your own dovetail marking gauge,
fun to do as well.


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## Chris208 (Mar 8, 2012)

Thanks to all of you for the tips.

I have a nice set of bevel edge chisels, my dad has a coping saw that I'm going to steal, and I think I'll buy a Veritas dovetail saw.

Now I'll just need to practice.


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## Chris208 (Mar 8, 2012)

Thanks to all of you for the tips.

I have a nice set of bevel edge chisels, my dad has a coping saw that I'm going to steal, and I think I'll buy a Veritas dovetail saw.

Now I'll just need to practice.


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## khays (Aug 16, 2009)

Yeah I made my dovetail marking gauge also. A nice marking gauge is almost a must too. i built this one instead of buying one also. My cuts improved when I started using a marking gauge instead of pencil.

I found a small brass backed saw my Dad had and I sharpened the teeth. That helped me out instead of using that japanese saw with the thin blade I couldn't cut a straight line hardly at all with that thing, LOL.

Show us pics when you get your first one done.


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

Chris, Seems you've just received a mishmash of information. Some good, some maybe not so good. I'm not sure how you'll take what you've been given and become successful. If it takes as much practice as some would have you to believe, then you might want to consider a different approach.

You've asked a question that cannot possibly be fully answered in a simple thread online. Have you considered taking a class to get some good one-on-one training? The ability to practice in front of an instructor and get some constructive feedback would be very beneficial. Even purchasing a DVD from a quality instructor would be highly advisable(no I don't sell DVD's… yet). I've watched 100's of free videos online on hand-cut dovetails. (*Edit*: And I've picked up many tips through that process.) Figuring out what will work for you could be a struggle.

Alternatively, maybe ask about a specific problem you might be having with your dovetails. You might get better information

I was advised to not reply at all. Maybe I shouldn't have. I hope you find some success in whatever path you take.


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## Chris208 (Mar 8, 2012)

Rance, thanks for your reply.

I'll be okay. I plan on buying a DVD to teach me the basics and practicing a lot.

Im buying marking saddles, a saw and a marking guage. I'm building a mallet. I already have some decent chisels.

I'm not having any problems with my dts currently, because I've never tried one. But, the right tool generally makes things easier. This is the approach I'm pursuing.

I really appreciate all of the feedback I've received.

Ljs is great.

Chris


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

Chris, I can highly recommend(with no reservations) Rob Cosman's "Hand-Cut Dovetails" DVD. Amazon has it for $25. Other places also carry it. He has an Advanced one but I've not seen it so can't vouch for it. IMO, Rob has the best techniques out there. No connection btw.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Chris, there are at least 75 videos on Youtube concerning hand cut dovetails and how to do them. Most are very good. Why spend $25 on a video when you can apply the money towards tools and get the videos for free. Youtube is a treasure trove of woodworking videos. I have yet to not find what I was looking for. Have you looked?


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## khays (Aug 16, 2009)

Rance, 
I think the reason most of us said to practice is you really have to be able to cut a straight line.

Chris,
If you can cut a straight line already then googling for hand cut dovetails for videos is a good starting point if you don't want to spend the money on Rob's DVD. Rob has some good stuff, but some of his products are just way too expensive for me. Once I started cutting straight lines my dovetails improved greatly.


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

Kevin, I agree about some of his prices. His DT saw is outrageously priced. Same with some of his other tools.

As for cutting straight lines, a BIG part of that can be which saw you are using. So far, out of 23 posts, NO one has mentioned anything about how to choose a good saw for cutting DTs. I'm not one that believes higher priced tools are inherently better. Saws can have a wide set, a narrow set, many teeth, or fewer, filed for ripping, or filed for cross-cut. And then there is the style of handles. Yes, handle shape can affect your cuts.

My recommendation for a DT saw: 14-16 tpi, little to no set in the teeth, pistol grip handle, and yes… sharp. I could care less which brand as long as it fits these criteria. The new Veritas DT saw fits all of these criteria and seems to be reasonably priced. Oddly enough, I've also found that a $14 15" Pony Hand Saw can do a pretty good job too. Although I would not recommend it to a beginner(or to a tool snob). 

As has been said, practice is necessary. I'm just saying that many of the problems that beginners have can be overcome or kept to a minimum by simply using the correct tools and techniques. Kevin, this post is not meant to be a pissing contest. I really do appreciate your input.


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## Smile_n_Nod (Jan 20, 2011)

I don't think a dovetail marking gauge is even needed, unless you want the angles on the dovetails to look identical. A lot of the demonstrations I've seen on TV, or online, show the craftsman just marking a line freehand or even just cutting with the saw tilted slightly.


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## Chris208 (Mar 8, 2012)

Thanks again for all of the help.

I just ordered the following from Lee Valley.

Veritas 14 tpi dovetail saw.

Veritas 1:6 and 1:8 dovetail saddle markers.

Deluxe rosewood marking gauge.

6 inch double square.

As I mentioned previously, I already have nice chisels and a coping saw.

I think that should do the trick as far as tools to get started.

Thanks LJs!


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

About the only thing I see missing is determination. Have fun with it.


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## khays (Aug 16, 2009)

Nahh Rance, I didn't really take it that way. Actually I was going to mention the different types of saws also, but figured that's probably too much for now. I recently jointed my rip saw and filed the teeth on it from some website I found a few weeks ago.

I'm actually cutting some dovetails right now for my drawers for my cabinets in the garage  When I had a different saw (sharpened it), sharpened my chisels and got a cutting gauge, that is what really helped me the most I believe. I was working with flimsy hand saws, not sharp enough chisels. LOL

Chris have fun with the dovetails!

Rance, sorry you took it the wrong way man

Kevin


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

Chris, I think you'd find a 2" *machinist square *as(or more) helpful. I just saw one on PJ Tools for $3. Shipping would probably kill you though. Or you could just make one of those too (shameless plug).

As for your *marking gauge*, I would recommend a blade version(sometimes called a cutting gauge) rather than the pin version. The mark left from a cutting blade is where your chisel will eventually register. The pins just scratch the wood and you have to line up your chisel by eye. Just not as accurate(or easy).

Kevin, I wasn't pissed.  Too bad I can't convey that emotion across the internet very well. LOL!


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## khays (Aug 16, 2009)

LOL, yeah it's hard to convey how you want to sound over the internet for sure. I know exactly what you mean there 

Take it easy,

Kevin


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## tirebob (Aug 2, 2010)

The only change I might suggest for you 'possibly' is to get the wheel gauge over the rosewood gauge. I find it much easier and really help cut in the line better for chisel registration… Just my humble opinion…


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## ducky911 (Oct 6, 2010)

you need a sharpener…i used a three sided stone holder rough. med fine

if you look at my projects..the blanket chest there is a picture of how many samples i did. First they where to loose than they where to tight…i put alot of hours into that chest and I am a better all round woodworker after doing that. ie i measure and mark better.

also you notice a pic of some home made line up blocks.

have fun …but do not hurry…one sample after work a night for two weeks.

bob


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