# The "What am I doing?" Holtzapffel Workbench



## DragonLady (Mar 2, 2010)

*Actually Part 2-Cutting to rough length*

I guess this would technically be the second part of the workbench build, but I'm new to LumberJocks and didn't know about the series thing. So my first blog post should serve as the intro to the bench.

It's the Holtzapffel workbench (why do I have to spell that a few times before I get it right, every time!) without the giant twin screw face vise. Instead, I'm just using a Lee Valley regular front vise on the face, and a large front vise on the end. Made to my own dimensions, of course, because I can NEVER build anything exactly to plan. I have to fiddle with things, it's my nature.

Took me forever to decide on a length for it. Finally came down to "pick something so you can actually CUT the damn wood, woman!" Aiming for a 5 1/2 ft long, 30" deep, 32" high, 3" thick top bench.

So here's the set up:

I love that little Workmate, even with it's limitations. Has come in very handy many times in the past year.

Trying to find the best 6 ft length out of the 8 ft boards I have. I probably could have picked some better wood, but I was a little limited. Overall, I don't think I did too badly on the wood choice.
Nearly had heart failure when I turned one board over and found this evil thing staring at me:

yeah, you can be sure that bit didn't make it into the bench!

So I managed to cut 14 boards out of 20 to rough length before I encountered a problem:

Do you see the problem?  No more room on the sawhorses!! Oh, darn…that just means I'll have to stop at the store tomorrow on the way home from work and get more…what a shame…

I did break my favorite tape measure tonight, though.  I'll have to get another one tomorrow, too. And, knowing me, I'll manage to walk out of the store with more tools than I intended. Why is collecting tools so addictive?!?

So that's progress for today. More than I thought I'd make, actually. Means I'll have time to set up my new grinder that just came today and maybe get some sharpening done.

Gotta go make dinner! A woman's work is never done


----------



## wstokes (Mar 20, 2009)

DragonLady said:


> *Actually Part 2-Cutting to rough length*
> 
> I guess this would technically be the second part of the workbench build, but I'm new to LumberJocks and didn't know about the series thing. So my first blog post should serve as the intro to the bench.
> 
> ...


Instead of getting more sawhorses, why not attach a long length of wood to the top of each sawhorse, thus making them wide enough to handle your project.


----------



## DragonLady (Mar 2, 2010)

DragonLady said:


> *Actually Part 2-Cutting to rough length*
> 
> I guess this would technically be the second part of the workbench build, but I'm new to LumberJocks and didn't know about the series thing. So my first blog post should serve as the intro to the bench.
> 
> ...


Because the only wood I have long enough is destined to go into the bench! I don't have any scraps that are longer than 24".

And these are cheapie plastic sawhorses. Not sure I'd trust them to hold a board screwed into them.


----------



## DaveP (May 6, 2008)

DragonLady said:


> *Actually Part 2-Cutting to rough length*
> 
> I guess this would technically be the second part of the workbench build, but I'm new to LumberJocks and didn't know about the series thing. So my first blog post should serve as the intro to the bench.
> 
> ...


Go get a cheap 4×8 foot piece of plywood, lay it across those saw horses. Plenty of space and a table for when company comes over to boot!


----------



## Tim29 (Oct 10, 2009)

DragonLady said:


> *Actually Part 2-Cutting to rough length*
> 
> I guess this would technically be the second part of the workbench build, but I'm new to LumberJocks and didn't know about the series thing. So my first blog post should serve as the intro to the bench.
> 
> ...


looks like you have a good start to a great bench. I put 2 of my benchtops together the same way with the same wood. You also invested maybe the best money in the shop in getting that exact yellow and black power strip for your workbench in the background. I have the same one and I dont know what I would do without it. keep us updated.


----------



## CaptainSkully (Aug 28, 2008)

DragonLady said:


> *Actually Part 2-Cutting to rough length*
> 
> I guess this would technically be the second part of the workbench build, but I'm new to LumberJocks and didn't know about the series thing. So my first blog post should serve as the intro to the bench.
> 
> ...


You go girl! I did the same thing on my first serialized blog and I'm a techie.


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

DragonLady said:


> *Actually Part 2-Cutting to rough length*
> 
> I guess this would technically be the second part of the workbench build, but I'm new to LumberJocks and didn't know about the series thing. So my first blog post should serve as the intro to the bench.
> 
> ...


I don't want to be spoil sport, but I see a lot of knots on those boards. Have you considered overlaying it with a nice flat MDF panel that could be changed out from time to time. The first time you would just have to flip it over to get a fresh surface (providing it is screwed down and not glued). Of course you would want to install it on a relatively flat surface so you would still have to plane the wood top, but maybe with a hand planing machine followed up with a belt sander (your own or borrowed if you don't have one and you don't want to buy one). You might also consider flattening it with a router.


----------



## DragonLady (Mar 2, 2010)

DragonLady said:


> *Actually Part 2-Cutting to rough length*
> 
> I guess this would technically be the second part of the workbench build, but I'm new to LumberJocks and didn't know about the series thing. So my first blog post should serve as the intro to the bench.
> 
> ...


Oh, trust me, I see the knots, and dread them 

Learning experience!!


----------



## DerekL (Aug 18, 2008)

DragonLady said:


> *Actually Part 2-Cutting to rough length*
> 
> I guess this would technically be the second part of the workbench build, but I'm new to LumberJocks and didn't know about the series thing. So my first blog post should serve as the intro to the bench.
> 
> ...


You can go back and edit that first blog entry and add it to the series…


----------



## DragonLady (Mar 2, 2010)

*Foray into Four-Square*

All the pieces are rough cut to length for the top now.


I'm seriously thinking that it is going to be too wide. My original plan was for 30" but now that I see it, it looks awfully big. I think I may just start gluing up, and stop when I think it looks good. I can adjust the base to the correct dimensions after the top is finished.

And a first for me: I flattened a face, and squared an edge to it! I'm so excited! I squealed like a little girl when the try square came up flat 

Only made it through 2 1/2 faces of a 6ft long board before I pooped out for the day. Wow, what a workout this is for me. Feels good, though. I have a feeling I'll have lost a couple pounds by the time this workbench is finished. It doesn't help that I don't have a stable surface to plane on (that's kinda why I'm building this thing, after all) so the silly thing bounces around like a jumping bean. Need to see if I can get the brain hamster working on a solution to that.


So there's the progress for today. I think I'll only be able to do one, maybe two boards per session. So it will take me a while to mill these all flat and square. I'm ok with that, in no particular hurry. The fun is in doing it!

First order of business next time: sharpen those plane irons!

Oh, I think I'm in love with my scrub plane…


----------



## OutPutter (Jun 23, 2007)

DragonLady said:


> *Foray into Four-Square*
> 
> All the pieces are rough cut to length for the top now.
> 
> ...


How come you're planing each board before the glue up? Usually people glue up the boards and then flatten the top with planing. At least that's what I've seen on the site most often. I've never done it either way but coincidentally I'm in the process of making a cutting board and the principle seems to be the same.

Best,


----------



## SPalm (Oct 9, 2007)

DragonLady said:


> *Foray into Four-Square*
> 
> All the pieces are rough cut to length for the top now.
> 
> ...


Looks great. Good for you.

When I built mine, I built the base first and used that to support the massive top while I flattened it. But this will require you to select the dimensions earlier.

Steve


----------



## KentS (May 27, 2009)

DragonLady said:


> *Foray into Four-Square*
> 
> All the pieces are rough cut to length for the top now.
> 
> ...


I love hand tools, but being raised in a produstion shop, that looks like a hard way to get the job done. I admire your dedicaction to the task. It's really inspiring to see anyone make use of the tools they have to accomplish a goal. Sometimes the journey is more rewarding than the end result. Hang in there, you'll be glad you did. It looks good so far.

Interesting you showed your Workmate. Someone posted a question recently about them. Yours looks just like mine.


----------



## DragonLady (Mar 2, 2010)

*The glue up*

Started gluing up tonight. Doing one or two at a time, depending on how the pieces look. Going pretty smoothly so far. Spread some glue, position and clamp, set the timer for 35 mins. Rinse and repeat.



I filed some notches in a cheap 3" plastic scraper I had laying around and I'm using that to spread the glue with. Works really well.


Got nine done tonight. Will do the rest tomorrow, and then comes the really hard part of flattening and smoothing the surface. With only hand tools! Oy, what have I gotten myself into?



This thing is no where NEAR even. And I have a feeling I'm going to run out of glue before I run out of boards…


----------



## bigike (May 25, 2009)

DragonLady said:


> *The glue up*
> 
> Started gluing up tonight. Doing one or two at a time, depending on how the pieces look. Going pretty smoothly so far. Spread some glue, position and clamp, set the timer for 35 mins. Rinse and repeat.
> 
> ...


Good luck! are these 2×4's?


----------



## DragonLady (Mar 2, 2010)

DragonLady said:


> *The glue up*
> 
> Started gluing up tonight. Doing one or two at a time, depending on how the pieces look. Going pretty smoothly so far. Spread some glue, position and clamp, set the timer for 35 mins. Rinse and repeat.
> 
> ...


They are 2×8's that I ripped in half.


----------



## sparks (Dec 10, 2009)

DragonLady said:


> *The glue up*
> 
> Started gluing up tonight. Doing one or two at a time, depending on how the pieces look. Going pretty smoothly so far. Spread some glue, position and clamp, set the timer for 35 mins. Rinse and repeat.
> 
> ...


I've done the same. Have u decided how you are going to attach legs. I've had several ideas but can't decide.


----------



## DragonLady (Mar 2, 2010)

DragonLady said:


> *The glue up*
> 
> Started gluing up tonight. Doing one or two at a time, depending on how the pieces look. Going pretty smoothly so far. Spread some glue, position and clamp, set the timer for 35 mins. Rinse and repeat.
> 
> ...


Sparks, I think I'm going to cut the tenons in the top of the legs, and mortise the top, but not glue or pin them together. Just set the top down on the legs. I need to be able to disassemble it later for moving, and the top should be heavy enough.

If that doesn't work, then I'll just end up pinning them, but not gluing. I can knock the pins out later if I have to.


----------



## Tim29 (Oct 10, 2009)

DragonLady said:


> *The glue up*
> 
> Started gluing up tonight. Doing one or two at a time, depending on how the pieces look. Going pretty smoothly so far. Spread some glue, position and clamp, set the timer for 35 mins. Rinse and repeat.
> 
> ...


glue for this type of project seems to evaporate out of thin air. Just when you think you have all you need you need more. I did 2 of my workbenches with the same type of tops. I caved and used a 20" planer. Good luck with the rest of the top and keep us posted with updates. Its looking great!


----------



## SPalm (Oct 9, 2007)

DragonLady said:


> *The glue up*
> 
> Started gluing up tonight. Doing one or two at a time, depending on how the pieces look. Going pretty smoothly so far. Spread some glue, position and clamp, set the timer for 35 mins. Rinse and repeat.
> 
> ...


Looks good. I would flatten the top with a router and sled. It works real sweet.
Does that fit into your requirement of only hand tools?

Steve


----------



## DragonLady (Mar 2, 2010)

DragonLady said:


> *The glue up*
> 
> Started gluing up tonight. Doing one or two at a time, depending on how the pieces look. Going pretty smoothly so far. Spread some glue, position and clamp, set the timer for 35 mins. Rinse and repeat.
> 
> ...


Don't have a router, and don't have the money to buy one.  Don't have any family with a router, either, so I can't borrow.


----------



## jack1 (May 17, 2007)

DragonLady said:


> *The glue up*
> 
> Started gluing up tonight. Doing one or two at a time, depending on how the pieces look. Going pretty smoothly so far. Spread some glue, position and clamp, set the timer for 35 mins. Rinse and repeat.
> 
> ...


I like SPalm's advice since it's the easiest way to flatten big surfaces. Keep bugging people, there are lots of routers out there…


----------



## DragonLady (Mar 2, 2010)

*Final glue up of top*

I ended up discarding one piece of the top as too rough to deal with. So I've got 19 pieces glued up, at a width of 28 1/4". I think that will work very well.

My first glue up (of any size!) and I think I did ok. Did it piecemeal, adding a board or two every 30 mins or so. Just got the final pieces on, and I am going to leave it clamped over night to cure.



This is my first time ever using pipe clamps. Holy cow do those things exert some pressure!! I didn't use them until the final clamp, and they were squeezing glue out of joints that were a couple hours old. I'd hate to be the wood in those clamps, ouch.

The top face came out somewhat even:


I still have a LOT of work to do to get that flat and smooth, but the bottom face is a nightmare:


Hard to see in the photos, but I'm sure I have height differences of up to 1/2" or so 

I have a feeling I'll be doing more sharpening on my plane blades than actual work on the top!


----------



## sphere (Feb 6, 2010)

DragonLady said:


> *Final glue up of top*
> 
> I ended up discarding one piece of the top as too rough to deal with. So I've got 19 pieces glued up, at a width of 28 1/4". I think that will work very well.
> 
> ...


I hope you scraped the glue squeeze out while still soft as you went. Then it won't be as hard on your planes when you encounter the excess.


----------



## jack1 (May 17, 2007)

DragonLady said:


> *Final glue up of top*
> 
> I ended up discarding one piece of the top as too rough to deal with. So I've got 19 pieces glued up, at a width of 28 1/4". I think that will work very well.
> 
> ...


not looking too bad. Forget the bottom since you are not going to do work there… ;0)


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

DragonLady said:


> *Final glue up of top*
> 
> I ended up discarding one piece of the top as too rough to deal with. So I've got 19 pieces glued up, at a width of 28 1/4". I think that will work very well.
> 
> ...


That's going to be a little tough to handplane with all those knots. You might want to consider using a power hand plane to get it near the mark first. Whatever you do, good luck with your project and it will be fun to see it planed and ready to go.


----------



## DragonLady (Mar 2, 2010)

DragonLady said:


> *Final glue up of top*
> 
> I ended up discarding one piece of the top as too rough to deal with. So I've got 19 pieces glued up, at a width of 28 1/4". I think that will work very well.
> 
> ...


I'd love to use a power hand plane, or even a belt sander, but, like the router, those are things I don't have, don't know anyone who has that I can borrow, and am unable to buy.

So handplanes it is. I DO have a true scrub plane, though. That will help loads with the initial flattening. I've got a ton of wood to take off.


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

DragonLady said:


> *Final glue up of top*
> 
> I ended up discarding one piece of the top as too rough to deal with. So I've got 19 pieces glued up, at a width of 28 1/4". I think that will work very well.
> 
> ...


Well you do seem like a determined person and I'm sure you will get through it, but I don't envy you. If that wood is fir those knots are pretty hard and brittle. Maybe a tool rental? Sorry, I don't mean to be a killjoy. I plane by hand a lot too, but I stay away from hard knots. Your plane isn't going to like them.


----------



## wstokes (Mar 20, 2009)

DragonLady said:


> *Final glue up of top*
> 
> I ended up discarding one piece of the top as too rough to deal with. So I've got 19 pieces glued up, at a width of 28 1/4". I think that will work very well.
> 
> ...


If you ever need to do a big glue up like this again I suggest doing it all at once with a ton of pipe clamps. Of course pipe clamps cost money. I only own three, and have borrowed another 3 to make six, and for a top your size you could use even more. But you can see how you could do the entire glue up all at once and really make the joints tight. Also, in the future try to use cauls to it all flat.


----------



## DragonLady (Mar 2, 2010)

*Call 911-Fat lady down!*

I'm going to give myself a heart attack! But wow! Flattening a roughly glued bench top is a workout. Feels good!

Had to stop and catch my breath after my first round. DL vs the bench! And surprisingly, I'm doing pretty good. I can see actual progress in taking the high boards down.

I'm using my Veritas scrub plane, and that thing is worth it's weight in gold. Took me a while to find just the right amount of cut to take, though. Too little, and I'm just pushing the plane around for fun. Too much, and I nearly broke my wrist when the plane hit a knot and stopped, but the arm was still going forward. ow. So I experimented a bit, and I think I've found a good depth. Deep enough that I'm actually doing something with each pass, but not so deep that I'm fighting it.

Here's the bench, laid down on sawhorses and daring me to start:


It actually didn't glue up as badly as I thought when it was standing on end.

The top is wide enough that it's a stretch to plane all the way across it, so I'm making sure to come at it from both sides. It's too tall on the sawhorses to be really comfortable, though. I'm wondering if my poor little workmate would be able to support the whole thing by itself, as the workmate is a couple inches lower.

So THAT'S what cross-grain shavings look like…


Have I mentioned that I love my scrub plane?


Ok, break time is over, back to scrubbing!


----------



## jack1 (May 17, 2007)

DragonLady said:


> *Call 911-Fat lady down!*
> 
> I'm going to give myself a heart attack! But wow! Flattening a roughly glued bench top is a workout. Feels good!
> 
> ...


you go girl! ;0)


----------



## IrishWoodworker (Mar 28, 2007)

DragonLady said:


> *Call 911-Fat lady down!*
> 
> I'm going to give myself a heart attack! But wow! Flattening a roughly glued bench top is a workout. Feels good!
> 
> ...


Last pic = Priceless!!!!


----------



## MarkE (Feb 26, 2008)

DragonLady said:


> *Call 911-Fat lady down!*
> 
> I'm going to give myself a heart attack! But wow! Flattening a roughly glued bench top is a workout. Feels good!
> 
> ...


Aren't you glad you didn't use hard maple?


----------



## DragonLady (Mar 2, 2010)

*Serious Question-When to switch planes?*

I've made MUCH more progress on this top than I thought I would. Especially in one night.

My question is this: *When do I switch from the scrub plane to the #5?* I only have a scrub, a #5 and a #4 smoother. My plan was scrub, jack with aggressive cut, jack with lighter cut, then finish with #4. I know I SHOULD be using a jointer, but I don't have one, so it's not an option.

My straightedge is just about riding on the tops of the grooves left by the scrub plane all the way across the board now. 
Hard to see in the pic, but I thought I would try:


I went from having a definite hollow in the middle (as a result of not being able to reach fully across) to having pretty even grooves all the way across.

Not bad for a short, out of shape lady! I'm pretty proud of myself. This is my first real woodworking project.


----------



## DaveP (May 6, 2008)

DragonLady said:


> *Serious Question-When to switch planes?*
> 
> I've made MUCH more progress on this top than I thought I would. Especially in one night.
> 
> ...


Based on the picture there, I'd say switch to the jack when the surface looks like that! Go cross-wise across the grain with the jack at a light cut to minimize tear out. Once you've traversed the surface cross-grain with the jack, and you've knocked down those high spots, run it with the grain until you're getting nearly full length savings. Once that's done follow with the smoother (or not, I didn't), with the grain at a light cut.

Don't forget to use some parafin wax on those plane soles, frequently and often. It'll make the passes much easier, believe it.

-dave

ps: sharpen your blades often.


----------



## parkerdude (Dec 13, 2008)

DragonLady said:


> *Serious Question-When to switch planes?*
> 
> I've made MUCH more progress on this top than I thought I would. Especially in one night.
> 
> ...


Yeah what Dave said.

I don't have a scrub plane but I do have another blade sharpened with a gentle radius. I just switch blades, re-adjust the mouth opening larger, and scrub away!

As a matter of fact, I don't plane the length of a surface until it's flat and fairly close to even thickness. Most of the passes are at 45° or 90° to the grain.

I rub paraffin right on the wood if I plan on taking off a considerable amount of material.

Then I either switch blades again and re-adjust the mouth or switch to my #4.

By the way, I sharpen with wet / dry sandpaper and usually touch up the smoother blade. It only takes 5 - 10 minutes.

Good luck, the build looks good!

later,


----------



## bigike (May 25, 2009)

DragonLady said:


> *Serious Question-When to switch planes?*
> 
> I've made MUCH more progress on this top than I thought I would. Especially in one night.
> 
> ...


I would have to agee with what was said being a handplane user myself.


----------



## DragonLady (Mar 2, 2010)

*Dealing with tear out*

I'm in the process of flattening my new bench top, made out of #2 construction grade doug fir. I am really new to woodworking, and didn't pay enough attention to grain direction when I glued up the top.

I'm getting some pretty bad tear out with my #5 plane. I don't have a scraper and can't afford one right now (plus, that's another thing I'd have to learn to sharpen, and I'm not doing so great with the regular tools).

How can I reduce tear out in soft wood, with knots everywhere, and grain going every which way? Should I just call it good and switch to my RO sander?

I did sharpen the irons using the plate glass and sandpaper method,with a jig, and found it pretty sharp, but I'm still missing something there. Might just need practice.

I have been sharpening the iron while working on a 6000 grit waterstone. And I have an adjustable frog, so I know what you mean by "closing up the throat" but I just can't seem to get it right.

this stuff is hard! Fun, but a little frustrating to learn on your own by trial and error. Reading is one thing, doing it, even passably well, is another!


----------



## jack1 (May 17, 2007)

DragonLady said:


> *Dealing with tear out*
> 
> I'm in the process of flattening my new bench top, made out of #2 construction grade doug fir. I am really new to woodworking, and didn't pay enough attention to grain direction when I glued up the top.
> 
> ...


Maybe leave it for a couple days and just think about what you've done and what you could do to change the outcome. Talk to a lot of people and after a bit, try again. You can do it!


----------



## asthesawturns (Aug 23, 2009)

DragonLady said:


> *Dealing with tear out*
> 
> I'm in the process of flattening my new bench top, made out of #2 construction grade doug fir. I am really new to woodworking, and didn't pay enough attention to grain direction when I glued up the top.
> 
> ...


Okay, take a deep breath, are you planing it straight with the grain, maybe you can try going diagonal across the wood, or move the plane straight but while it is angled to one side or the other. Soft woods can be tough. If that doesn't help, put a 2# cut of shellac on it, if you don't have any shellac, you could thin some poly with mineral spirits, 50/50, apply let dry and cure, this will stiffen the wood fibers enough to allow some more planing, but resharpen your iron first.
Things like this can be a challenge, work benches were a very common test of ones apprenticeship, because they can be so difficult.
Hope this helped
Good luck.


----------



## DragonLady (Mar 2, 2010)

DragonLady said:


> *Dealing with tear out*
> 
> I'm in the process of flattening my new bench top, made out of #2 construction grade doug fir. I am really new to woodworking, and didn't pay enough attention to grain direction when I glued up the top.
> 
> ...


Andrew, I've done directly across the grain, diagonal, and straight. I get tearout somewhere no matter which way I go!

It's only a workbench, and it's my first major project, so I'm not too upset. And at least I know WHY I'm having these problems. I was too impatient to get get started on the glue up and paid NO attention whatsoever to the grain direction.

It's actually gotten pretty flat, which I'm kinda proud of. Just missing chunks!


----------



## skywalker01 (May 19, 2009)

DragonLady said:


> *Dealing with tear out*
> 
> I'm in the process of flattening my new bench top, made out of #2 construction grade doug fir. I am really new to woodworking, and didn't pay enough attention to grain direction when I glued up the top.
> 
> ...


You could try using the jig to sharpen your plane blade to a higher angle, something that would come closer to the angle of a scraper plane. I'm not sure if this will really make too much of a difference, just a thought. Softer woods are so much harder for me to plane. They love to tear out and when they do it's usually a disaster. I agree with the others and say take a break for a while then come back later. You'll get it.


----------



## Sawdust4Blood (Feb 16, 2010)

DragonLady said:


> *Dealing with tear out*
> 
> I'm in the process of flattening my new bench top, made out of #2 construction grade doug fir. I am really new to woodworking, and didn't pay enough attention to grain direction when I glued up the top.
> 
> ...


Maybe come at it from a different angle. Rig up a jig to a router and flatten it with a hinge mortising bit.


----------



## DragonLady (Mar 2, 2010)

DragonLady said:


> *Dealing with tear out*
> 
> I'm in the process of flattening my new bench top, made out of #2 construction grade doug fir. I am really new to woodworking, and didn't pay enough attention to grain direction when I glued up the top.
> 
> ...


No router available.


----------



## Rasta (Dec 22, 2008)

DragonLady said:


> *Dealing with tear out*
> 
> I'm in the process of flattening my new bench top, made out of #2 construction grade doug fir. I am really new to woodworking, and didn't pay enough attention to grain direction when I glued up the top.
> 
> ...


You could try to flatten with a belt sander then go over it with a scraper or a more shallow bite with your plane to smooth


----------



## grumpycarp (Feb 23, 2008)

DragonLady said:


> *Dealing with tear out*
> 
> I'm in the process of flattening my new bench top, made out of #2 construction grade doug fir. I am really new to woodworking, and didn't pay enough attention to grain direction when I glued up the top.
> 
> ...


You probably just need to change the direction of attack. Traverse, instead of parallel. And sandpaper makes "shiny" not "sharp". But I digress. Slice, don't chop.

Douglass fir is not hard, it is very soft. And that could be your problem. It is somewhat contrarian to logic. but softwoods require even sharper tools than do hardwoods. By skewing your angle of attack: i.e.; traversing, you increase the angle of attack and create a shearing action at the cutter you make it easier on the edge.You will slice instead of lift and you will not experience as much "tear out"


----------



## grumpycarp (Feb 23, 2008)

DragonLady said:


> *Dealing with tear out*
> 
> I'm in the process of flattening my new bench top, made out of #2 construction grade doug fir. I am really new to woodworking, and didn't pay enough attention to grain direction when I glued up the top.
> 
> ...


In the time that it took me to respond to the above eight or so people have chimed in with excellent advice. I still stand by the notion that soft woods require really sharp tools . . .


----------



## DragonLady (Mar 2, 2010)

DragonLady said:


> *Dealing with tear out*
> 
> I'm in the process of flattening my new bench top, made out of #2 construction grade doug fir. I am really new to woodworking, and didn't pay enough attention to grain direction when I glued up the top.
> 
> ...


Grumpy, I'm really trying for sharp. I need practice, I know!


----------



## Chelios (Jan 2, 2010)

DragonLady said:


> *Dealing with tear out*
> 
> I'm in the process of flattening my new bench top, made out of #2 construction grade doug fir. I am really new to woodworking, and didn't pay enough attention to grain direction when I glued up the top.
> 
> ...


I had the same issue tackling the top on my table..http://lumberjocks.com/projects/28445 I also used fir. It is not the plane and it is not you. It is the soft wood. It just won't hold its own….So I just went across the grain to flatten as much as I could without too much tear out and then sanded away. This approach gave me the best result.


----------



## DragonLady (Mar 2, 2010)

DragonLady said:


> *Dealing with tear out*
> 
> I'm in the process of flattening my new bench top, made out of #2 construction grade doug fir. I am really new to woodworking, and didn't pay enough attention to grain direction when I glued up the top.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Chelios! I've actually done pretty well with the scrub plane and the jack, but I think it's time to admit hand tool defeat and go with sanding.

I still have the base to do, and you can bet I'm paying attention to grain direction this time!!


----------



## jack1 (May 17, 2007)

DragonLady said:


> *Dealing with tear out*
> 
> I'm in the process of flattening my new bench top, made out of #2 construction grade doug fir. I am really new to woodworking, and didn't pay enough attention to grain direction when I glued up the top.
> 
> ...


Hey don't blame me… jack, get it? ;0) oh, wait, sharp oh, ok… never mind… ;0)

Have fun out there!


----------



## charlton (Jan 24, 2009)

DragonLady said:


> *Dealing with tear out*
> 
> I'm in the process of flattening my new bench top, made out of #2 construction grade doug fir. I am really new to woodworking, and didn't pay enough attention to grain direction when I glued up the top.
> 
> ...


I don't really have much to add but maybe a higher blade angle and a slightly tighter mouth? Looking forward to your results.


----------



## OutPutter (Jun 23, 2007)

DragonLady said:


> *Dealing with tear out*
> 
> I'm in the process of flattening my new bench top, made out of #2 construction grade doug fir. I am really new to woodworking, and didn't pay enough attention to grain direction when I glued up the top.
> 
> ...


Can you describe the shavings you are getting?


----------



## DaveP (May 6, 2008)

DragonLady said:


> *Dealing with tear out*
> 
> I'm in the process of flattening my new bench top, made out of #2 construction grade doug fir. I am really new to woodworking, and didn't pay enough attention to grain direction when I glued up the top.
> 
> ...


Hi DragonLady,

Like the others said, hold that plane slightly askew to the wood, and push it straight with the grain. Careful tightening up the throat too much, if you go too far it'll frustrate you because your plane will go from having no cut then with a minor adjustment, chattering like crazy, which is a really great way to make lots of tearout, askew or not. Leave the mouth open about 1/8 of an inch, and try it. If you get shavings without tearout but they are too thick, you can adjust your mouth further. Try using feeler gauges (available cheap at autoparts stores) to help you set the mouth incrementally smaller. Yes, it can take some time and slow you down and be painful, but, you'll get an idea of how close you're getting before tearing out, and by planing with it over and over again, it will help you figure out how the plane feels when it's properly adjusted and taking nice shavings. Once you get the setup right, you'll learn what it's like and it'll help next time around. Experience is the best teacher.

As far as sharpening goes, well, that's a whole other story. I started with sandpaper, and got things pretty sharp. Sharp enough to finish my workbench. But, my blades seemed to be a little soft, and I was new at it, so my blades tended to get beat up quickly, and required going through multiple grits again and again to get rid of small chips I'd create. Eventually, I got better at it, but I got tired of gluing down sheet after sheet of sandpaper, so I just ponyed up and bought some good Arkansas oil stones. Some folks don't like oil, and complain it's messy, but I don't like spray glue stuck to everything (including my fingers), so I don't have a problem with it. Water stones are another way, but my shop is unheated when I'm not in it, and the thought of getting cracked water stones because I forgot I left them out there, didn't appeal to me. Plus water stones need flattening more often than Arkansas stones, and that sounded like one more thing for me to mess up quickly.

So I bought a grinder, learned to hollow grind my blades, and I learned to sharpen freehand without a jig. I can't complain, my tools are as sharp as I have ever used, and manage to do what I need them to do. Your mileage may vary. There's no shortage of sharpening methods. Pick one and stick with it, you should do well.

Good luck and if you need some encouragement, you can see how badly one can build a bench, yet still make it usable, by reading this write up I did on mine: http://www.wkfinetools.com/tMaking/art/dPearce/holtzBench/Holtzapffel1.asp

Reminds me, I need a new picture…

Good luck, hang in there, it'll be fine!


----------



## DragonLady (Mar 2, 2010)

DragonLady said:


> *Dealing with tear out*
> 
> I'm in the process of flattening my new bench top, made out of #2 construction grade doug fir. I am really new to woodworking, and didn't pay enough attention to grain direction when I glued up the top.
> 
> ...


Wow! Dave Pearce! LOL, I've read and re-read your workbench write up about 15 times now  It's one of the first I found when doing my research on bench building.

I've given up on the planes on the top. Just too much grain mismatch, and I think I've gotten it as flat as I want now.

I am starting to be able to make the plane do what I want it to do, though. It's nice to see results.


----------



## DaveP (May 6, 2008)

DragonLady said:


> *Dealing with tear out*
> 
> I'm in the process of flattening my new bench top, made out of #2 construction grade doug fir. I am really new to woodworking, and didn't pay enough attention to grain direction when I glued up the top.
> 
> ...


Thanks DragonLady, glad to see I entertained at least someone! ;-)

I noticed your later post about the top, and it's true, there's nothing that says sanding the top won't work either. A little wood putty and that orbital sander and it should be plenty flat to build with. After a couple years in the garage… erm… I mean, the shop… my top is slowing getting out of flat. Couple pieces are dropping ever so slightly across the length and it's about time for me to flatten again. The good news is, I've got two years worth of planing experience now, so it'll be much easier and less of a challenge.

When I was building the bench, I was talking to a friend of mine and agonizing over some details. He asked me if it was my first bench, and I said yes. He then said something I remember to this day: "Well, don't sweat it, in a couple of years you'll look at it, and want to build a new one no matter how nice this one is". Course, he was right and it was a relief to realize I didn't need to build the Sistine Chapel first time out.

Glad to hear you're getting those planes to behave. For such a simple tool, it's amazing how complex it can be when you try and use it, and how simple it is once you get it working the way you want…

Good luck and keep the posts coming.


----------



## DragonLady (Mar 2, 2010)

*Leg lamination lament*

Made good progress on my bench today, despite the ache in my hands (whole body, really) from this nasty return of winter.

Did a light sanding of the top, and filled the tearouts with wood filler. If someone asks me what my bench top is made of, I'd have to answer "wood putty, mostly!"  hahaha! Nah, not that bad. Had my boyfriend help me flip it over (definitely not a one person job!). Then I did a quick job on it with the scrub plane. Not looking to get this fancy, just wanted to get it to gentle hills instead of soaring mountains of wood. It's the bottom. Not going to be looking/working on the bottom! I did a little extra work around the areas where the leg mortises are going to be.

Already coming in very useful as a bench!

Then, since I have to wait for the wood putty to dry before I can continue sanding (that, and my helper wasn't available to help me flip it again) I started on the legs for this monster. You can be sure I was VERY careful about the grain orientation on this part, after the fiasco with the top. My first leg lamination went very well.

Legs are made of a 2×6x8', with the edges planed down to get that stupid radiused edge off. First board ended up being about 5 1/4" wide when I was done. I cut it into 3 sections of 32" and glued those together.


Turned out very well. It won't take much to get that leg ready.

Then moved on to the next board. Planed the edges, cut the sections, started to glue…

Noticed that the board is cupped. Well, clamps will fix that, right? Right?



I was tightening and heard cracking. "oh, that can't be good" tighten a little more….little more….

POW!

whoops! The stress had to go somewhere!

So my second leg didn't survive the process. Which is ok. I have to go get more wood anyway, because my on-the-fly mental math a month ago was shoddy, and somehow, I'm short some boards. Only had enough 6 wide to do two legs! A bench with two legs isn't very useful…

And I need more glue!


----------



## DragonLady (Mar 2, 2010)

*One Leg down!*

For those of you that are actually following along with me on this project (as deranged as you must be…) you may remember my last post, wherein I managed to crack one of the leg boards right down the middle:









I was initially going to scrap that, but a few messages got me thinking. It probably won't really affect the structural strength all that much, especially if I orient the cracked face so it doesn't hold a mortise. So I decided to go ahead with that leg. Four-squared it, and filled the crack with wood putty. I'll put it in the back, with the crack facing the wall, and only me and the wall will ever know… Well, you guys will, but you'll keep my shameful secret, right?

So after I dripped sweat all over it from planing (note to self: choose better shop music. Trying to plane to Aerosmith may give you a heart attack!), I started the tenon on the top of the leg that will mate with the top.

This is my first ever tenon. Ever. In my life. I made it easy on myself and went with 1" shoulders all around.

So, first I marked it out and then started cutting the shoulders in.
You can see that I need some practice in keeping my saw straight! But it's on the waste side, so I can clean that up.








Did all four faces.

I must have done something right, because my first cheek cut just popped right off when I got to the shoulder 









My arm was getting over tired by this time, and my second shoulder cut was a little wobbly:








You can see where I went wide of the line, but again, on the waste side, so it's not a big problem.

And most of that was cut off when I did the other two shoulders.
My arms were definitely screaming for mercy by this time, but I went ahead and finished the other cheek cuts. A little rough, but nothing that can't be cleaned up with a sharp chisel!
My workpiece had slipped without me noticing, and I wasn't paying attention to my saw angle, so I cut a little bit into the leg on one cheek









Ta Da!! My first tenon!

















Not too bad for my first try. And will look better after a few minutes with a chisel. That's if my arms ever decide to forgive me


----------



## 308Gap (Mar 6, 2010)

DragonLady said:


> *One Leg down!*
> 
> For those of you that are actually following along with me on this project (as deranged as you must be…) you may remember my last post, wherein I managed to crack one of the leg boards right down the middle:
> 
> ...


Cool…..........you hand tool woodworkers are crazy . Try Pink floyd. Or the man in black.


----------



## 308Gap (Mar 6, 2010)

DragonLady said:


> *One Leg down!*
> 
> For those of you that are actually following along with me on this project (as deranged as you must be…) you may remember my last post, wherein I managed to crack one of the leg boards right down the middle:
> 
> ...


Just read the series , all of it. I'm impressed. I'm heading to sears for a workmate, My last one was stolen.


----------



## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

DragonLady said:


> *One Leg down!*
> 
> For those of you that are actually following along with me on this project (as deranged as you must be…) you may remember my last post, wherein I managed to crack one of the leg boards right down the middle:
> 
> ...


looks great for a first try and will only get better from here on. as you mentioned -this will not affect much of the stability of the entire bench, and also since this is all custom fit - you can always make the mortise part flush with the tenon.

looking forward to seeing this come together


----------



## jack1 (May 17, 2007)

DragonLady said:


> *One Leg down!*
> 
> For those of you that are actually following along with me on this project (as deranged as you must be…) you may remember my last post, wherein I managed to crack one of the leg boards right down the middle:
> 
> ...


Glad you haven't given up. I screwed up more things, that I hung in there with, that turned out just fine than I can name. This is why my best stuff is what I designed, and changed as I screwed it up… ;0)
Lookin' good. Cracks don't mean much if you work around them, ask my wife…


----------



## IrishWoodworker (Mar 28, 2007)

DragonLady said:


> *One Leg down!*
> 
> For those of you that are actually following along with me on this project (as deranged as you must be…) you may remember my last post, wherein I managed to crack one of the leg boards right down the middle:
> 
> ...


You are going to be a hand tool master! Not that you aren't there already, you have done more with just your saw and hand planes than i would dare say 70% of woodworkers. Just keep working at it friend, when its all done you will have a fine bench to work on. Have a blessed day.


----------



## Tim29 (Oct 10, 2009)

DragonLady said:


> *One Leg down!*
> 
> For those of you that are actually following along with me on this project (as deranged as you must be…) you may remember my last post, wherein I managed to crack one of the leg boards right down the middle:
> 
> ...


You are doing so great! Keep up the good work and keep us posted.


----------



## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

DragonLady said:


> *One Leg down!*
> 
> For those of you that are actually following along with me on this project (as deranged as you must be…) you may remember my last post, wherein I managed to crack one of the leg boards right down the middle:
> 
> ...


Your shop music COULD be worse. Try ZZ-Top. Specifically the Eliminator album… OUCH…

I keep seeing mentions of the "Holtzapffel workbench. I keep thinking this is perhaps a Swiss, or Dietsch translation of Holzapfel, or Apple Wood… Now that would be something to see… Does anyone build their Holtzapffel workbenches from holzapfel?


----------



## DragonLady (Mar 2, 2010)

*Back on track*

I haven't gotten a lot of work done on my bench the last couple of weeks, because I've been futzing with the new tools I bought. I found a cheap little table saw, a nice bench sander, and a craptastic router and semi-decent router table on craigslist. So instead of working on the actual project, I've been trying to get the tools in decent working order so I can use them.

Gave up on the router and bought a decent Craftsman with dual bases. I love that thing. Why have I never discovered routers before??

And, now that I've got a nice router, and made the jig for it, I finally got going on the tenons on the bench legs.

Not too shabby!


Can you spot the hand-sawn tenon? 


So I did one complete tenon with the router and the jig, and then went back and cleaned up the hand-sawn one with the router. I had also cut and glued up the pieces for the other two legs last weekend. I need to get those planed and square before I can cut the tenons on them, though.

But two legs with nice tenons after tonight's efforts. And that included a trip to the borg for a sheet of acrylic to use as an oversize base plate on the jig.

Have a 3 day weekend coming up, so I'm hoping to start on the stretchers. It's coming together, slowly!

And here's a couple more pictures. You guys like pictures, right?
One shoulder ended up a little deeper than the other, but that's ok. I can custom fit the mortises.


Another comparison between the routed and hand-sawn:


----------



## Tim29 (Oct 10, 2009)

DragonLady said:


> *Back on track*
> 
> I haven't gotten a lot of work done on my bench the last couple of weeks, because I've been futzing with the new tools I bought. I found a cheap little table saw, a nice bench sander, and a craptastic router and semi-decent router table on craigslist. So instead of working on the actual project, I've been trying to get the tools in decent working order so I can use them.
> 
> ...


aren't routers great. Mine is one of the most important tools I own. you are doing great keep it up


----------



## jack1 (May 17, 2007)

DragonLady said:


> *Back on track*
> 
> I haven't gotten a lot of work done on my bench the last couple of weeks, because I've been futzing with the new tools I bought. I found a cheap little table saw, a nice bench sander, and a craptastic router and semi-decent router table on craigslist. So instead of working on the actual project, I've been trying to get the tools in decent working order so I can use them.
> 
> ...


You can't just get one… I have 4 and I'm a 90 lb weakly next to some guys. You can see why they are so neat in just making tenons but there is hundreds of things they can do.


----------



## luckydawg (Mar 17, 2010)

DragonLady said:


> *Back on track*
> 
> I haven't gotten a lot of work done on my bench the last couple of weeks, because I've been futzing with the new tools I bought. I found a cheap little table saw, a nice bench sander, and a craptastic router and semi-decent router table on craigslist. So instead of working on the actual project, I've been trying to get the tools in decent working order so I can use them.
> 
> ...


Sweet!
great now I gotta go do something! geez! hahahaha!


----------



## Rasta (Dec 22, 2008)

DragonLady said:


> *Back on track*
> 
> I haven't gotten a lot of work done on my bench the last couple of weeks, because I've been futzing with the new tools I bought. I found a cheap little table saw, a nice bench sander, and a craptastic router and semi-decent router table on craigslist. So instead of working on the actual project, I've been trying to get the tools in decent working order so I can use them.
> 
> ...


Check out A1Jim router selection, that guy has liike 42 routers!


----------

