# Hand plane advice needed



## Rxmpo (Feb 23, 2008)

I have just finished a project for a good friend who paid me generously for it. With each project my goal is to be able to afford a new tool for the next one, which I'm thinking to be a smoothing plane. I have researched for some time and I am at a crossroads. Do I get a LN, Veritas, or WoodRiver? I have the Veritas BU Jack plane and love it, but I wanted to ask for all of your opinions before making my final decision. Thoughts?


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## Zulu55 (Jan 22, 2012)

I own several Veritas and LN plane's and really, you can't go wrong with either.

I have the bronze LN smoothing plane and love it. I have the Veritas BU Jack and Jointer plane's and they are also great.

In your case I think I would recommend the BU Veritas and request a different angle blade then what you have on your Jack plane. This way, you can use both blades with both plane's.

Just my 2 cents.

(I can't speak for WoodRiver as I don't own/haven't used one)


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## sikrap (Mar 15, 2009)

If it were me, I would buy the LV. I think they are as good as the LN, but not as expensive. I'm not a fan of the Woodriver planes, although I've heard that the newest incarnation of them is much better quality than the earlier versions. My $.02


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Personally id buy 10 old stanleys with that kinda money but then again ive never laid my paws on a LN … just my thoughts.


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## michelletwo (Feb 22, 2010)

this is like asking addicts, what drug they prefer.  You will get many opinions. I think in this arena, you get what you pay for. LN & Veritas are top choices.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

LN & Veritas are top certainly top choices. Is there a reason you don't want a vintage Stanley or bedrock?


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

You could get a set of vintage for the cost of one new LN. I guess it comes down to budgets and expectations.


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## Rxmpo (Feb 23, 2008)

Thank you all for your input.

Don, I am hesitant on buying an old plane because I have never refurbished anything before and I don't want to throw good money after bad. Shane did a fabulous job on restoring one of his planes, but I don't want to take a chance on wasting a dime or my time on something not worth the effort. I don't have a very good history in this area.

The Woodshow is coming in 2 weeks. I will seriously consider the "vintage" idea after spending the day there. They usually have a good selection of old planes.

I started this post without even considering an old plane and walk away with my thoughts narrowed down to two: Veritas or Vintage. Thanks again…


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## bluepaulsky (Aug 15, 2011)

why dont you make your own theres a good vid on youtube


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I'm not trying to persuade you in either direction. I bought an LN #62 and a veritas scraper. I haven't done a formal review on the veritas, but did mention how nice it worked when building my blanket chest..

On the other hand, two points to make about vintage. One several of the guys here on LJs buy, restore and sell vintage planes. Prices are usually reasonable, we (well I) don't do it to make money, its just for fun. If you get one of them you shouldn't have to worry any more than buying a Woodriver. I would say less. Most planes do not work right out of the box.

You can't go wrong with either the LN or the veritas. If you have the budget to put together a collection of planes in that price range, your going to be happy. I've never had a Woodriver, but know from talking with others they are ok. It may take some tuning to get them to perfection. Even LN and veritas will need a little tuning.

Take a read at Hand Planes of your Dreams. We discuss this all the time.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Refurbing a Stanley is a no-brainer with the resources you have here. You'll learn a lot about planes in the process, whether you want to or not
.
If you're dead set on new, the bronze LN would be my choice. It ain't cheap, but what is.


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## premieretreeservices (Feb 9, 2012)

I'm also a fan of the older model Stanleys. It's not nearly as difficult to refurbish as you might think. I can understand if you don't want to risk it, but it is definitely worth it. The newer models just aren't built like Stanleys. LN isn't bad, if a little expensive.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Depending on how or where you buy a vintage Stanley, you can get a good #4 or #5 for something between $10 and $30. A few dollars in materials and you have a quality tool. How much of a risk is it really.


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## handyrandyrc (Feb 3, 2012)

Really, I'm with the vintage guys on this. A plane is something to hold a blade at an angle to take shavings off a board. Once you have one tuned and shaving well, the 20 dollar one will turn out work equal to the 300-dollar one.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

You don't need to spend a lot on bench planes as there are lots
of decent vintage ones out there. The L-N bronze planes have
more concentrated mass and that can help with smoothing some 
tricky woods.

The Japanese use lower-mass plane bodies with extremely sharp
irons and a fast stroke to plane softwoods. They seldom work
with hardwoods.

James Krenov advocated making your own planes. Considering 
how beefy they are, Krenov planes may equal some fine metal
planes in mass if made from dense woods.

One area where you may want to put some dollars if you do
this seriously is your joinery planes. They are not cheap, but
a massive shoulder plane is a very useful tool and the side
rabbet planes serve a useful function no other tool does.


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## AKSteve (Feb 4, 2012)

I just picked up an old Stanley 1105 model in pretty good condition and only paid 28 bucks for it, I just need to sharpen the blade and get rid of the paint on it. I wish I had the money for a LN or veritas. good luck in what your eventually pick up. I know what ever it is it will be treasured.


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## Rxmpo (Feb 23, 2008)

Thank you all for your great advice.

Well, I have been watching eBay for a while and this one was on my watch list. After all of the responses I have gotten about these old planes I decided to take the best of both worlds and buy a restored vintage smoothing plane. A Stanley #4 smoothing plane Type 15. The price was right, for $40 I really can't go wrong. I will put it through its paces over the next two weeks and if I am happy then I will save my money for something else on the wish list. If not then I will go for the Veritas at the upcoming Wood Show.

One of the greatest things about this site is the advice you get from people who have the knowledge to actually be able to give advice on these matters. Thanks again!


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Nice looking plane, you will have to follow up on its performance, if you dont mind.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

That looks like a beauty. Let us know what you think after you've used it.


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## ChuckM (May 12, 2008)

"If not then I will go for the Veritas at the upcoming Wood Show."

Regardless of how your vintage plane turns out after you try it, I recommend that you go to the Woodshow and try out the Veritas planes there. They have almost all of their Veritas planes there for you try and ask for free advice. You can compare and feel how different their #4(?) is from yours, in terms of features, adjuster, finish, etc.

Bring the blade from your vintage plane along and they'll do a sharpening demo on it for you. No purchase necessary! They are not sales-oriented only, but also educational.

PS "With each project my goal is to be able to afford a new tool for the next one" _ You can also decide for you if your next new tool should be any of the Veritas planes you try out there. (Declaration: All my handplanes are Veritas BU, except one and the specialty planes)


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## hhhopks (Nov 22, 2011)

Go with a used plane. Clean it up.
If you have sharp blade and truly know how to use it, you can't be far off.


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## Trackeng (Jan 20, 2009)

I have a couple of L.V. planes. I have put them through a lot and they hold up well. You can always same money on a used plane but it sounds to me as if you have "money found". If that is the case then go for it. Get one that you will consider an heirloom that you will pass down. You just cannot go wrong with the extra investment in a good quality plane that is close to tuned when you get it. The time saved sometimes makes up for the extra money.

I am about to buy an L.V. smoothing plane based on my great experiences with what I have and the great assistance that the L.V. folks provide. My understanding is that the Veritas quality is right up there but I go with what I know.

Just my two cents.


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

I am firmly intrenched in the bedrock camp, that said that leaves out the veritas planes they just don't do it for me at all. I love a vintage bedrock with a nice thick iron from IBC it requires you to file open the mouth on your plane a little took me like 5 minutes and i was shooting photos for an article. the other option is a wood river ver3 these are not junk and are easily tuned even better fit this with a nice rob cosman set and you have a great affordable plane also I would be glad to sell you one of the hundred bedrock Stanley planes that are in my shop if your interested i have references and can easily sell you a restored plane in any condition you request. and lastly the cream of the bedrocks is currently ln they are second to none they have all the bells and whistles and i have it from a good source that wood craft will soon be having a second line of planes this one under the Pinnacle label keep your eyes open for these they are sure to stir up the market I you want a sweet vintage bedrock pm me ill be glad to customize one just for you


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Whether you make one or purchase a vintage use a Hock Blade and make some curlies. Hock blades rock and can turn a good ol plane into a very nice one.
Or +1 for Veritas, either way you'll be fine.


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

not that i like to argue but hock blades are not all they are cracked up to be shane just got one and the damn thing wasn't even close to flat it took him a long time to get it flat while it is only 95 thousandths and a ibc is 140 and the ibc is flat there is really no comparison the ibc is by far the better blade and they aren't ugly like the hock blade either


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Thanks for the info. Any website for ibc? Can't hurt to find a better blade.


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*
In your spare time, take a look at this SWEET plane.

Yes... I got three.

*


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

IBC blades are sold @ woodcraft under the Pinnacle name, several sizes have been on sale recently, and still may be. I only have tried 1 Hock iron, it was for the old style 5 1/2, Hock makes them in O1,it is true the back was not flat one the one I got. A little frustrating for a $50+ iron.


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

you can currently get the blades from robcosman in canada or wood craft in the usa you will never regret the purchase I spent 3 months testing the blades and having them checked in a lab and with a microscope the steel is great i know they have a website it is international blade company in canada this was the guys that made the veritas blades for several years and won lots of awards for the quality now veritas makes most of their own blades


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

i was at this show in sac and there was a guy there asking rob cosman how long it took to get the backs flat on the ibc blades rob said they come flat and the guy was steaming mad said all the hock blades he had purchased took at least 30 minutes to get flat he had purchased several irons rob sold him 6 sets of the cosman chip breaker ibc pinnacle blades

Joe we got to get you out of harbor freight is stumpy selling those planes to you


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Thank you for the replies. I shall purchase some IBC blades and chip breakers. Rock on.


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*Dude…*

Have you seen those planes in person and used one?

I'm sure… you would be surprised!

... for the price, they are very hard to beat.


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## Straightbowed (Feb 9, 2012)

yes I would either buy a stanley and IBC upgrade or LV or woodriver I personally have 23 baileys with 8 upgraded to IBC I love the heavy IBC BUT I also got AN A grade surface plate from where i work brand new somebody dropped it and broke a corner off they give it to me right place right time I got lucky it was a browne & sharp 36×36 x6 I took it to a concrete factory and they cut it for 100.00 yes a good stanley with IBC upgrade is great but really I love LEE VALLEY


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

no joe i balked at the price ill go buy a few to make you happy though


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

... No… you will make yourself HAPPY! LOL

Really…

Made in India… NOT China…


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## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

Send me some figured walnut and I'll fix you up.


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

joe I havce over a hundred planes and only the very best please me they have to be perfict when i am done plaining I know stumpy says they have a place in the shop I will go get a couple to apease you guys but when it comes to planes and results I am a tool snob


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

Fair enough… I am looking forward to your Review of these planes.

I am NOT a plane Snob & have always found it hard to get a plane adjusted the way I 'think' they should be.
I had no problem adjusting these planes… just a few turns here & there & I WAS HAPPY!

I was able to get one set to very fine cuts… with another one at slightly more of a cut… and the last one even more!
I call them 1, 2, & 3… depending on what I want to do.

Now, if I can do that, I know they have to be good… either that or they're built in such a way that even a clutss like me can adjust them.

Again, I look forward to an Expert's Review on the subject.

Thank you for taking a look at them!


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## Rxmpo (Feb 23, 2008)

Look what I got for Valentine's Day! Ok, I got the little guy three days ago, but the 5&1/2 Bailey I was given while in the middle of the hope chest build. A friend got it from his wife's grandfather and it was a rusty mess so I took it apart and put it to the side for a few months. Well after all of your responses I decided to try and breath some life back into it. I was shocked by the results! Sanded the whole thing down to bear steel with some wet/dry paper and flattened the sole then waxed it. The 5&1/2 is a rock of a tool. I like it even more than the Veritas BU jack I have. Solid beyond solid.

The #4 is smooth as silk. The blade that came with it was sharp (badly unevenly sharped by at least a 1/16 off) and cuts like butter. I plan on upgrading the blades in these guys and I have no intention of buying another plane at this point. I am going to stop buy a guys house from Craigs list that has about 15 different Baileys for sale at $15 each and they look like mint condition. So Chrisstef I think I might take your idea of buy 10 vintage planes in stead!

This could not have been a more informative forum topic for me. Thanks again.


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

COOL!

Super!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Rx, that is awesome, congrats!


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

cool do this mean the thred is over kind of a drag see ya later joe


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

You've hit that slippery slope. Its hard to stop now. I'd upgrade one blade at a time. You will probably find the blade you have work just as well as a new one, and it will save you a bunch more of money.


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

Dude… This thread is far from being a Drag… I like it… Didn't mean to give that impression!


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## Willeh (Dec 30, 2011)

I've got a Veritas Bevel Up smoother and a very nicely restored Stanley #4 with an upgraded Veritas heavy blade/chip breaker in AT steel (Big improvement BTW over standard Stanley blade/chip breaker). I would say the Bevel up smoother significantly out performs the stanley. Since you have a Bevel up jack, you can interswap the blades on both, which gives you lots of extra functionality. I'd recommend the Veritas B/U smoother.


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## Willeh (Dec 30, 2011)

Just to add, if you need any further information about restoring old planes, have a read through my blog:
http://lumberjocks.com/Willeh/blog/27918


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

IBC blade and IBC chipper on the way, woo hoo. Thank you folks.


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## rkober (Feb 15, 2012)

I agree with zulu55 and the others for Veritas with an alternate blade. I just got a low angle smoother (with 38 & 50 deg blades) for Christmas and there's just no comparison to my old Stanley's (type 11s). With that being said I think there's a lot to learn from tuning a Stanley. But it's time consuming and not cheap if you put good Hock blades and chip breakers in them.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

10-4 on using Hock Blades! My old Sargent #418 (a fore plane) with a Hock Blade has recently been giving me shavings in the 2-thousandths range. I originally did NOT think the old fore plane would be up for that challenge, but I was wrong.

FWIW, the thicker the plane blade, the better. All my old Sweetheart and Sargent blades are thinner and do not cut nearly as well as the Hock blade, nor my WoodRiver #4 which also has a thicker blade also. I am sure LN and Veritas are more refined from the get go, but you may not actually need to spend that much if you take your time tuning some of the good used planes out there.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Has anybody actually seen documentation that anything like this was actually produced by a manufacturer and not some smuck like me with a broken block plane?


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

we have already addressed the fact that Hock blades are simply poor quality they don't come close to the quality of the IbC and WAHO69 WILL BE ANOTHER WHO HAS SWITCHED FOR GOOD even Mikey has said it thicker is better hock blade 90 thousandths ibc rob cosman matched blade and chip breaker 140 thousandths so if mike thinks thicker is better the proof is in the pudding my fore plane takes shavings less than one half a thousandth that is 4 times better than mike is getting with his Hock Blade and this was measured with Rob Cosmans micro caliper a source I trust .

Don is that your eBay listing I think you need one of those to plane your wood floors into the corner

no Joe it was a drag that the originator of the thread said he was done buying things and thus the thread had no reason to go on. I said it was a drag that it was ending I had liked this thread for the past week or so when it started.


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## Rxmpo (Feb 23, 2008)

Dude,

I said I was not going to buy a Veritas plane, not stop buying!  I still have a nice bankroll from my efforts and need to make wise decisions with my tool selections. Like last night buying the IBC Rob Cosman matched blade chip breaker sets for each of these planes thanks to your recommendations. I watched a ton of You Tube videos researching this purchase and the advantage I see is that the blades will fit other planes as well (2&3/8 blade will fit my 5 1/2, but also a #6 and #7 + 2" will fit my #4, but also a #5). SO I hope to make I nice score with a few more vintage planes from Craig's list that will fit my new blade sets.

As it stands I feel as if I got two planes for the price of one and hope to multiply that number.

Next need is dust collector which is a far less "sexy" topic than hand planes.


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

I have lots of planes for sale i mostly have bedrock planes let me know if i can sell you a nice bedrock


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## Rxmpo (Feb 23, 2008)

By the way, I am in the process of researching sharpening stones and was directed to this site http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com I have been looking at the Naniwa Super Stone to buy an 8000 and 12000 grit stones.

Currently, I have a work sharp that I have had no luck sharpening the plane blades with. Reviews on the plane blade attachment are not great. I do have the Veritas honing jig and use the scary sharp method but never get my plane blade to a real polished finish.

I know this topic can be as divisive as the Hook/IBC battle, but having never used a stone before, I would welcome opinions.


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

i tested the worksharp and got great results this review will be out next week as we release it with a series of new articles and our new feature deltagrams will be put up as PDFs to download you will be able to see tons of great tips from over 50 years ago it is amazing that woodworkers still ask the same questions even after all this time.

the key to the worksharp is to not jam the iron in but to slide it gently forward and back and the second tip i have is to dump the sand paper and buy the magnetic disk from dmt these are diamonds and also the honind disk it used diamond paste to hone and will make an iron on the worksharp so sharp that it is truly scary in fact i lacerated the hell out of my finger when i touched the tip of the blade to drag my finger across the blade and the damn thing sliced me open like it was forced into me or like i slid my finger down the blade which i didn't do.

if your heart is set on stones there are two camps oil and water I don't recall the best Arkansas stone to buy but it is something like Nicholas or Norton or something like that and they are the best bar none as sthey have the best quarry and no one has finer stones they are fairly cheep and work very well .

Next is water stones the finest water stone is the shapton the set up will cost you 800 dollars and is great for honing and the like it and all stones suck for restoring a bevel and high speed or low speed dry grinders ar bad for steel if you want a great way to sharpen and want to hit the great price point or the shaptons The Tormek is king it does any tool you can hone to perfection and it does drill bits planer and jointer blades yard tools kitchen knives and plane irons and chisels as well I currently have the jet the worksharp 3000 and the tormek t7 I also have the trend diamond plate and the mpower pss1 with all the dmt stones it does fasrt micro bevels and it does them very nicely it is around a c note and a great add on to the worksharp I will use the pss1 15 times before i have to re do the bevel on the tormek I do want a set of shapton stones too because i have to have the best sharpening aresinol around and i know i do not to seem arrogant but i can do any thing I want onj any tool that means i wont be heald back by dull or working dull tools I hope this helps you out i know you can get great edges with what you have once you master the tool buy wisely buy once buy a tormek and maybe a set of shapton stones


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