# Dog hole size/ spacing



## phtaylor36

I am building the top for my bench, and can not seem to decide on the holes for bench dogs. 3/4 inch or 1 inch holes? I like the festool add ons and would like to use my bench top as a clamping/ holding surface… Is there any reason I should use 3/4 holes vs 1" holes? 3/4 seems kind of small. I also plan on spacing there fairly close and on the entire surface. Any thoughts?


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## JesseTutt

I used 3/4" holes on 6" spacing. I went with the 3/4" because I could get brass or plastic (Rockler) dogs, or I could use /34" dowel that I have to make my own.

I have no experience with Festool other than to know they are expensive.


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## HorizontalMike

3/4 is far from small and seems to be the most common used, AFAIK.

Spacing is usually dictated by your use of hold-downs and clamps, with them reaching maybe 1/3rd the way between holes(this is NOT a rule). Too many holes and your bench can look like Swiss Cheese and be a pain to use. One school of thought is to drill the minimum amount of dog holes to begin with, THEN add dog holes AS YOU NEED THEM. I think mine are spaced at ~12in intervals. FWIW, I love my Veritas dogs and surface clamps.:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?cat=1&p=43838


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## NiteWalker

I used 3/4' holes and put them only in front of the face vise.
No complaints. 3/4" holes will work fine.


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## nwbusa

I'm not sure why you'd want to use anything other than 3/4". Most of the commercial bench accessories are made to fit this size. Veritas hold down and wonder dogs are two good examples of why you want to stay with 3/4" IMO.


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## jmos

I used 3/4" holes as well. I have a twinscrew tail vise with two dog holes in it; I drilled my bench with two rows of dog holes (in line with the end vise) spaced about every 4" the length of the bench. This way I don't have to spend much time running the vise in and out when I need to use the holes. I also drilled a few more holes about 18" spacing down the center of the bench. So far I've had a hole wherever I've needed one. Have not had any problems with too many holes.

3/4" fits the Gramercy holdfasts (excellent), Veritas holdfast (very nice), as well as most common round dogs and the Veritas surface clamps pictured above (very nice also). I'm not sure I ran across many 1" work holding devices.

Having said all that, I find I do most of my planing with stops, instead of clamping with the end vise and the dogs. I primarily use the dog holes with the holdfasts, so I probably could have gotten away with fewer holes. But, I figured while I was drilling, why not. I still don't see much of a downside to having ample dog holes.


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## StumpyNubs

I think it depends on how big your dog is. I have an Australian Shepherd that would require a much bigger hole than the mini-beagle I also have. Personally I think it's better to just keep them off the bench than to worry about it.


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## Cosmicsniper

LOL. Funny, Stumpy. I have an ex-racing greyhound. He pretty much just speeds right over the holes.


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## phtaylor36

Good advice… Too funny.


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## BigMig

Dog hole spacing can also be dictated by the "run" of your vise. If the vice opens 11 inches, then you don't need to have holes every 4 inches…9 or 10 would be sufficient.

Likewise - with a smaller vise with a 7 inch throw you might space the holes 6 inches apart.


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## moke

Not to steal this thread, but I think this may be pertinent. I have heard that it is better to make the holes using a jig and plinge router….anybody know who makes the router bit and which method is better?


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## bandit571

Just a drill bit and a….









And I'll make my own square doggies, thank you very much….


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## jmos

I used a HSS 3/4" router bit from MCLS for my bench; it wasn't too expensive. Used the router to get the holes positioned and started (very quick). I then finished the holes with an auger type bit from Irwin (I believe). One problem I ran into was that, although they were all 3/4", they were not actually all the exactly the same diameter. Specifics in my workbench blog if you're interested.

I agree that you can space the holes based on end vise travel, I spaced then more closely than I had to to minimize the amount of time I spent running the vise in and out (not an issue if you have a quick release vise though). I figured the extra 10 minutes I spent boring holes during the build would be more than paid back over time.

Square is a very nice way to go; quite a few advantages, but harder to make the holes after the bench is built.


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## phtaylor36

Good advice. vice, vise…my workbench is not going to be amazing hard maple that is 4" thick with square dog holes…we can save that bench for later perhaps.

My thought is that I will use it to clamp boards using wedges, those strange cam clamps, as a steam bending table, marquetry press, etc…it may look like cheese with a lot of holes when I'm done with it but we will see if the versatility I get out of it is worth it in the end…


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## Loren

I went with about 6" spacing and I wish I'd gone closer. I use
3/4" holes and Veritas round dogs and flush clamps. I don't have a 
tail vise, though I had one installed for awhile.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I used a brace and bit for some 3/4" holes, and a spade bit in the cordless for others. All got a routered cove cut along the top inside edge of each hole to prevent splitting. Spacing of the 'line' of dog holes no more than 4" to 6" unless you like messing with your end vise to make it travel. The rule of thumb I heard is just more that half the travel of your vise dog.

Either way, ditto that too many holes just ain't right in a benchtop.


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## rockindavan

As far as spacing..I did 2 1/2" spacing on the tail vice. I varied the spacing on the bench from 3" up to 6" increasing the space each time. This way you don't have to move the vice as much and you don't need as many holes.


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## Sylvain

I would agree with Smitty.
Then the end vise would move around the mid position of its travel length.


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## doordude

Haven't any of you guys read the bible on work benchs? the schwarze "says" every 3" on dogs in line with your end vise, of the front edge side. the far side of the bench top gets holes every 12" apart. these would be 3/4" holes, for the hold fasts from gramacy.
haven't heard of 1" holes.


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## cutworm

I went with a triangular type clamping method. 2 holes on the bench and one on the vise. Pretty stable.


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## WilsonLR

Dusting off this informative thread… I made an end vise for my 30" deep DIY bench of non-standard construction. Due to a brain fart, the dog hols in my vise chop line up with a metal unistrut support in my bench top.

How important is alignment between the chop dog and the bench dogs? Best case is my 3/4" dogs would be 1" out of alignment (center to center).


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## xedos

Commercial dogs /accessories are made in 20mm and 3/4".

I have not seen 1".


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## WilsonLR

What I meant is if you drew a line down the bench where the vise dog hole is, the line of dog holes in the bench would be offset an inch from the line (due to the steel unistrut support member underneath the benchtop). I've never had a vise or dogs so …


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## SMP

> What I meant is if you drew a line down the bench where the vise dog hole is, the line of dog holes in the bench would be offset an inch from the line (due to the steel unistrut support member underneath the benchtop). I ve never had a vise or dogs so …
> 
> - WilsonLR


Kind of just depends on what you are doing, the shape of the wood piece, width etc. you can always get some scraps to keep that can stretch between 2 dog holes so you have a longer "bar" if it becomes an issue. Kind of like the Veritas planing stops but on the cheap:

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/workshop/workbenches/benchtop-accessories/69837-veritas-planing-stop

Can also use holdfasts alone or in conjunction with a batten etc. lots of ways to skin the cat.


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## ManySplinters

Best advice I got from a furniture maker for installing my Gramercy holdfasts - only drill where needed, as needed. You could turn the top into a nice swiss cheese pattern first but only end up using three maybe four of the holes. So wait until you find yourself saying "man, I wish I had a hole right there". Then you go for it - drill the hole. It really doesn't take that many… holdfasts have a long reach and can be rotated sideways for up close work.


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## controlfreak

This^^^

I did do a row inline with my wagon vise.


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## Tony1212

> Best advice I got from a furniture maker for installing my Gramercy holdfasts - only drill where needed, as needed. You could turn the top into a nice swiss cheese pattern first but only end up using three maybe four of the holes. So wait until you find yourself saying "man, I wish I had a hole right there". Then you go for it - drill the hole. It really doesn t take that many… holdfasts have a long reach and can be rotated sideways for up close work.
> 
> - ManySplinters


That sounds good in theory, but it wouldn't work so well in my shop. The last thing I would want to do while in the middle of a project is clear the benchtop and drill a hole into my workbench.

When I made my bench, I added dog holes to my vise chops (front vise and end vise) and lined up the dog holes in the bench with those. I haven't used all of them in the 5 years since, but I have used most of them. If I hadn't drilled them when I first built the bench, I would never had gotten around to drilling them since.

They are 3/4" holes, spaced a few inches less than the max distances my vises can extend. I use 3/4" dowels as my dogs.


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## therealSteveN

Old thread.

I didn't read the first answers, but on this page I didn't notice anyone saying, or explaining what they meant by "My Bench" Is it a classic large, heavy workbench of old, for predominant use of handtools? Or is it the much more popular worktable bench of a blended woodworker? Thinking like an MFT, where a grid like series of holes allows for the most flexibility, or a line of holes from a vise on the old style of bench.

Plus the biggest thing I didn't see mentioned is your bench, your rules.


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## bigJohninvegas

> Dusting off this informative thread… I made an end vise for my 30" deep DIY bench of non-standard construction. Due to a brain fart, the dog hols in my vise chop line up with a metal unistrut support in my bench top.
> 
> How important is alignment between the chop dog and the bench dogs? Best case is my 3/4" dogs would be 1" out of alignment (center to center).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - WilsonLR


So is this going to affect all four holes that are on your vise jaw? Make a new vise chop, and drill the holes right thsi time? Brain farts, I hate it when that happens. lol. 
I don't see an issue with the holes being off an inch. That is if you are clamping a panel, or a 6" plus width board. 
Even then, I use this brass dog. And if a had a thin piece, and pivot the flats to match the 1" skew, maybe it would be ok. I think I would rebuild the chop though.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/workshop/workbenches/benchtop-accessories/31127-veritas-round-bench-dogs


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## Lazyman

> What I meant is if you drew a line down the bench where the vise dog hole is, the line of dog holes in the bench would be offset an inch from the line (due to the steel unistrut support member underneath the benchtop). I ve never had a vise or dogs so …
> 
> - WilsonLR


I made the mistake of making my bench dogs not in alignment with the dog on my face vise. I put 2 rows of holes equally offset from the chop dog and I would not do it again. If the piece is not wide enough to hit 2 dogs, you have to lay a bench stop (thin strip of wood) in there to bridge between 2 dogs and it tends to be less stable that way. For what you are describing where the dog holes are just off a bit that would be unstable as well because as you clamp it, the piece will try to twist and you will swear at it every time it comes loose.


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## EricFai

I ran two rows of holes on my bench top Moxon spaced about 5" the holes on the front chop are spaced 12". Now to throw all of you off I used a 7/8" hole. But I turned my own dog pins, I have a different way of thinking and I will fabricate jigs and such to complete a set task. More so if I know I will be repeating it in the future.


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## WilsonLR

Thanks all. @lazyman, I appreciate you sharing the experience. I think I'll bite the bullet and drill a new dog hole in the vise to line up. Glad for the help. Better to look at an extra hole than making a bad bench.


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## Sylvain

It might not be parallel with the workbench-top edge but it is always possible to have the axis of your board between the two dogs (fixed one and movable one).


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## bigJohninvegas

> I think I ll bite the bullet and drill a new dog hole in the vise to line up. Glad for the help. Better to look at an extra hole than making a bad bench.
> 
> - WilsonLR


Just a thought on drilling new holes. 
Get a plug cutter and make plugs from some matching scrap wood. 
Plug the original holes before you drill the new ones.


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## therealSteveN

> Get a plug cutter and make plugs from some matching scrap wood.
> Plug the original holes before you drill the new ones.
> 
> - bigJohninvegas


Especially at 1" or less apart. Good advice John.


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## WilsonLR

> Just a thought on drilling new holes.
> Get a plug cutter and make plugs from some matching scrap wood.
> Plug the original holes before you drill the new ones.
> - bigJohninvegas


Yeah, I thought of that but I regret I already put a chamfer on those dog holes!


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