# New old planer



## MedicKen (Dec 2, 2008)

I have been on the look out for an old planer to replace my Dewalt lunchbox. It not that the Dewalt isnt a good planer it is, I just wanted and old arn. I have been looking for about 2 years and have even bid on a few but my budget was lower than everyone elses. That is until last week. 
My new toy is a 1958 Delta 22-101 13×5 with a 3hp 3ph motor that at first glance looks to be in great shape. It was removed from a working cabinet shop that was liquidated after the owner passed away. There was a lot of very nice machinery at the auction and I wish I would have been able to afford more.But then I would need a bigger shop, not that we all dont need a bigger shop. I have a friend here in town who will be making the trip to Utah to pisk up his purchases as well as mine. I am really looking forward to getting it home and playing with it a little. Of course it will get a good once over to make sure all the bearings, chains, gears, pulleys and belts are in good shape. I think I am just gonna clean this one up and use as is, the paint looks good. 
I am also finally going to upgrading from VFD's to an RPC. I will keep a few of the VFD's on some of the machines where variable speed makes sense. But the others will be packed away. The RPC will be 10hp so I should be able to run 7.5hp comfortably .


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## Bothus (Sep 14, 2009)

Nice. I'll bet you do more than clean it up though. You can't help it, it's in your blood.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I've been on the lookout for something similar to replace my ryobi lunch box. I hope I find one like this. Great find.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Uhh? Do ya think that'll be big enough for ya?
What a beast!
Bill


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## MedicKen (Dec 2, 2008)

I dont know Jerry. The gear box on this one is fairly complicated.

*BILL* It is only a 13" wide planer. The one I really wanted was 18" and weighed in at about 1500#. It also sold for about $1 a pound, more than I could afford to go.


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## MedicKen (Dec 2, 2008)

Well, the planer has some problems. Major problems unfortunately. This particular model has an achilles heel, it is known as the intermediate gear that drives the cutter head and feed rollers. It is made of bronze and known to go bad. It would appear that someone used the incorrect lubrication and burnt the gears up.










Now I need to find a machinist who is capable of reproducing the gear without having to take out a second on the house


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

Ken,
from the photo the gear seems to be in OK shape - just haev some burnt oil on it. what makes you think the gear is broken? does it have broken teeth? is it not meshing properly with the mating gear? does it run freely? or is it stuck?

PM me with location if you need help finding a local machinist.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

The gear teeth should be flat PurpLev, not worn like they are. Very common problem on those machines. Here is what a good one looks like (borrowed from a 22-101 restoration thread over at OWWM: http://www.owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=114604 ):










Cheers,
Brad


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## MedicKen (Dec 2, 2008)

Sharon…..I will clean up the gears as best I can and run the machine as is. There are some other smaller issues that also need to be addressed, table roller bearings, cleaning up the electrical, complete teardown and look at ALL the bearings and bushings, paint and so on. I was hoping this would be a quick clean up and start using, oh well. In the mean time while looking for the gears I can do the rest.

Brad…...There has been a lot of talk on OWWM about this planer and even some fixes from the original engineer who designed the planer. I am hoping I can come up with a gear set, I would really hate to have to part the machine out and scrap it.


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## AHuxley (Apr 22, 2009)

The dreaded bronze 22-101 gear! Nice looking planer except for the "convex" gear.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

Tough break. We had something similar to this when I was in high school. The feed didn't work well. We were a bunch of farm kids in there (including the instructor). One day one of the guys said if you would grease that thing it might work. In a day or so it was working. He used a grease gun and lubricated it. Funny the things that stick with us 50 years later. Good luck on the gear. Someone out there makes or has that gear. Keep looking.


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## JD13 (Aug 4, 2014)

I know I'm quite late to the party on this MedicKen, but if you don't mind me asking, can you divulge how much you paid for the Delta/Rockwell vintage 13" planer at auction? Speaking of deceased owners, my neighbor passed away and had one. His wife is willing to sell but I'm having a hard time finding appropriate value. It's just like yours, 22-101, weighs a TON. Runs on 220. I have not had a chance to fire it up so I don't know if it runs. I see you have done a lot of work to restore it and I'm sure this one's gonna need it too. Thanks. -JD


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## mantwi (Mar 17, 2013)

When you consider how many miles of lumber that thing has planed over the years it seems unlikely that you will wear away the remaining teeth in your lifetime. Powermatic used (maybe still does) convex gears on their model 66 cabinet saws. This problem may just be the gears wearing in so to speak. If it ain't broke don't fix it, you may be surprised at how long it will last in a small shop environment.


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## rick1955 (Jun 26, 2014)

I have a work around for this problem I've done it a few times over the years. Typically the gears transfer power from the motor that runs the head and the gears reduce the speed low enough for a feed rate. I've taken the gear off completely and hooked up a seperate feed motor. I've done it with DC gear motors which give variable speed. You could also do it with a three phase motor and VFD and get variable speed. You only need a 1/4 hp motor. A VFD for motors under 1 hp is cheap and you can even run it on 120 volts single phase. suepluscenter.com for motors and DC controls. factorymation.com for VFD's.


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## 69L46coupe (Oct 25, 2015)

> I have a work around for this problem I ve done it a few times over the years. Typically the gears transfer power from the motor that runs the head and the gears reduce the speed low enough for a feed rate. I ve taken the gear off completely and hooked up a seperate feed motor. I ve done it with DC gear motors which give variable speed. You could also do it with a three phase motor and VFD and get variable speed. You only need a 1/4 hp motor. A VFD for motors under 1 hp is cheap and you can even run it on 120 volts single phase. suepluscenter.com for motors and DC controls. factorymation.com for VFD s.
> 
> - rick1955


Rick, do you have any more information on this retrofit, pictures etc? I'd be interested in any and all info you may have. Thanks.
__
Dan


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

Beautiful. 
I just passed on one of these because I just got a Belsaw and if I bring one more machine home this year I will be killed.
But I still want one.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Thanks for sharing a lesson learned the hard way that will benefit others.
Buying equip sight unseen is always a risk the trade off being an extremely low price.

Did this with a Parks planer years ago ended up rebuilding the gear box all the bushings and babbits were wobbled out. Luckily I have a machinist rebuilt the whole thing for me just for parts.

It may be there, but a lot of old equipment has no built in dust collection which is huge in a planer.

Its one reason I got rid of it.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

This is what I like about my Belsaw 12" planer. The design hasn't changed significantly since I used to see the ads in Popular Mechanics in the 1950's and the company is still in operation and doing well. Looking at it the Belsaw, it appears crude, but the appearance is deceptive and it works like a charm and just keeps going and going. Most of the mechanical parts are "off the shelf" type which can be easily be found at McMaster Carr and the like and parts are still carried by Belsaw. Hell, the parts are STILL IN PRODUCTION AFTER 60 YEARS!!! : ) I bought it new in the 1970's and I haven't had to replace anything after all these years except the blades.

Planeman


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## GJT (May 3, 2016)

Hi, can someone help me out? I have tried every parts place online looking for the springs that hold the knives in the planer head. The part # is 428-06-122-0003. The actual part # from the manual is lbs-166. I purchased this planer recently and it was missing the knives but had the knife holders. But no springs. Any help would be greatly appreciated!! Thank


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

GJT, you will probably get better or more responses to your question if you create a new post. People tend to respond to the original post and might miss yours.


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## nohuhu (Jun 21, 2018)

GJT,

I restored one of those planers recently, and had to replace the cutterhead springs as well. Ordered these from McMaster-Carr, they fit and work well: https://www.mcmaster.com/9657k629/


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## GJT (May 3, 2016)

Great! Thanks unfortunately I have no springs to find out the length I need. Do you recall the length and diameter of the springs you ordered? Thanks


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## nohuhu (Jun 21, 2018)

GJT,

All spring parameters are in the link above: length (0.5"), outer diameter (0.148"), inner diameter (0.106"), compression rate (15.5 lbs/in).


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## GJT (May 3, 2016)

Thanks so much! I was looking @ your pics of the brass gear. Did you end up replacing it? Mine looks way worse! If so where did you find it?? I found a manufacturer on EBay I think it was around $295 for the gear. Thanks again for the spring info


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## nohuhu (Jun 21, 2018)

GJT,

This thread is not about my planer, it's about MedicKen's. I don't post much about my restorations.

I did end up replacing the bronze worm gear in my machine, original one was in a bad shape. The one you see on Ebay is made by Stine Gear, this company specializes in custom gear production and they make a batch of these worm gears once in a while. I bought a similar one for my rebuild, and also had to order the cutterhead worm too because I made a mistake when removing the old one and broke it. Short version is: don't use a puller to remove the bearing on the gearbox side of the cutterhead, there's a woodruff key that it will bump against and something will break. In my case it was the worm. 

On the upside, replacing both the wom and worm gear allowed me to meet the factory spec for gearbox backlash as described in the owners' manual. My planer should be good for another 60 years…


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I have a 10hp rpc and it has a hard time starting a 7.5hp sander. Some machines are harder to start than others.


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## GJT (May 3, 2016)

Oh no! Well thanks for the tip! I haven't torn into it yet. But thanks so much! Yep now your ready to make chips for years to come! This is such a cool machine! Can't wait to start the restoration. Thanks for all your help!!


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## 69L46coupe (Oct 25, 2015)

Stine manufacturers custom gears and one of the gears is the Intermediate Gear for the delta 22-101 planer. To the best of my knowledge and experience they only make them on request and like most manufacturers like to make several at one time. I've purchased 2 for my own use and 15 or so as a group buy for several others at the OWWM site. As mentioned it is best to purchase the worm and intermediate gear together. I would add to that the third gear which is the clutch gear that actually drives the infeed and outfeed rollers. Purchasing all three while pricey is the only way I believe the factory specifications regarding the critical backlash adjustment can be met. Incorrect backlash adjustment is the single major cause of the intermediate gear failing prematurely IMO.


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## GJT (May 3, 2016)

Wow ok the brass gear is $275 what am I looking at spending for all 3 parts?? Thanks


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## nohuhu (Jun 21, 2018)

@69L46coupe,



> Purchasing all three while pricey is the only way I believe the factory specifications regarding the critical backlash adjustment can be met.


I replaced only two parts in my planer, the worm and intermediate gear, and was able to adjust backlash to right in the middle of the specified parameters. I chose not to replace the clutch gear although it was somewhat worn. For a hobbyist usage pattern all this fussing about backlash is more of a nerdy OCD game than a critical parameter anyway.



> Incorrect backlash adjustment is the single major cause of the intermediate gear failing prematurely IMO.


I wonder how that could be the case, given that all machines left the factory supposedly adjusted to spec… It also depends on what could be called a premature failure. It says right there in the owners manual that the worm and intermediate gear are considered wear parts and recommended to be replaced simultaneously when worn. My planer was built in 1960 and cost $750 at the time, which would be $6,930 today. I do not consider replacing $500 worth of gears once in 60 years to be unreasonably expensive maintenance for a $7k machine.

@GJT,



> Wow ok the brass gear is $275 what am I looking at spending for all 3 parts?? Thanks


The worm cost me $200 from Stine Gear back in March. Reach out to Brian Harper ([email protected]), they might have some in stock still. Before purchasing gears, take pictures of existing ones and post them there or in a separate thread. Chances are that you might not even need to replace anything.

I did a full teardown and restoration on mine, with electrolysis bath and repainting. One reason I did that is because I like to keep my Delta fleet in the matching non-factory colors, and another is that my planer's gearbox gasked failed and the machine was covered with oil leaking from all holes and stunk like a skunk. No way I'd tolerate something like that in my clean garage shop, so the old lady got white glove SPA treatment.

You don't have to go that far but I'd still recommend to take the gearbox apart just to clean out the old oil and gunk, it's not that hard if you use kerosene or mineral spirits (paint thinner). I don't recommend "odorless" mineral spirits, it's neither odorless nor useful, and respiratory protection is still necessary so better to use ordinary one. Make sure to wear good rubber gloves, goggles, and a properly fitted respirator with organic vapor cartriges. When putting the gearbox cover back don't mess with cutting a new gasket, I used black RTV gasket sealant instead and it's been fine since I put the machine back together in March. No leaks.

Before taking anything apart, think about how you will put it back. This OWWM thread is most helpful in that regard: https://www.owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=125063


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## 69L46coupe (Oct 25, 2015)

The post you referenced https://www.owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=125063 is the post I did on the rebuild of my 22-101 back in December of 2012.


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## nohuhu (Jun 21, 2018)

> The post you referenced https://www.owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=125063 is the post I did on the rebuild of my 22-101 back in December of 2012.


Whoops, sorry Dan didn't recognize you.  Much thanks for what is now recognized the reference thread on restoring these machines, and for the famous precise high-tech feed roller bearing inset management tool that you mailed me a while back.  It worked perfectly and I don't observe any oil leaking from either infeed or outfeed roller bearings. I plan to share it forward with someone in need if you don't mind.

I don't recall if I took any pictures of the backlash measurement, likely I didn't because I was in a hurry to dial the planer in and start making chips, but I do recall clearly that the backlash was right in the middle of the specified range, 0.009" between the hi-speed worm and intermediate gear, and 0.005" between the intermediate gear and sprocket worm (clutch) gear. I was honestly amazed at how easily I was able to dial it in, only took me 15 minutes or so incuding fiddling with the dial indicator magnetic base and finding the best position to measure backlash. I also chose not to pin the intermediate gear assembly since a) it was tried by the previous owner and he suggested it didn't really help, and b) the already drilled pin bore was not aligned with the new intermediate gear position and I'm not equipped to do such precise drilling, unlike the previos owner who is a machinist. In any case I don't believe it is going to be a problem, I'm a hobbyist and although I use this planer regularly it's nowhere close to a heavy usage pattern. This machine will likely outlast my grandkids if I ever have any. 

What I regret not doing (or even contemplating doing) is having someone machine the table support surfaces on the column sides. Either one or both are somewhat worn in the upper section of the table travel range, around 3/4" thickness or so (logical, right). This results in a small amount of snipe I just can't dial out, and it only happens around that thickness. 2+ inches is totally fine, no snipe marks even at short stock length; 3/4" and less gets a bit of snipe that is easily sanded out but still bugs me a bit, OCD style. Of course I only found out about that when I put the machine back together and dialed everything else in, so I'm not going to take it apart just for this minor annoyance.


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## GJT (May 3, 2016)

> @69L46coupe,
> 
> Purchasing all three while pricey is the only way I believe the factory specifications regarding the critical backlash adjustment can be met.
> 
> ...


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## GJT (May 3, 2016)

Thanks for all your tips! And help. So if I open my gear box and my brass intermediate gear is o.k do I need to set the backlash? Or should I just keep running my planer? If so I don't have a dial indicator or even know how to use one? 
I wish I had more experience with this stuff but I don't. I'm nervous about taking gears out etc. trying to set the backlash with no experience? However i guess you don't know until you try though?. Thanks again


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## 69L46coupe (Oct 25, 2015)

Considering it is a used machine (at this time they all are used) and the gear(s) are worn I doubt anyone could even come close to matching the factory backlash specifications. So drain out the old oil, clean and flush the gear box add new oil to the level noted in the manual. Speaking of oil here is a thread from the OWWM site you should find interesting. https://www.owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=163193


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## GJT (May 3, 2016)

O.k that was very interesting but really not sure which oil to buy? I live in Oregon and my planer is in my garage and it will never freeze in there. The ISO460 seems to be the best option? Kind of confused about the grease for the worm gear? How did you interpret that? I have a worm drive skill saw and have that grease but it's pretty thick? Would you apply that to the worm gear? Then fill the gear box with the gear oil? Any advice is appreciated! Thanks again for all your help!


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## 69L46coupe (Oct 25, 2015)

No grease required, oil only. The oil is fed to the worm gear via a metal disk attached to the clutch gear. Make sure after you drain/clean/refill the gear box to the proper level ( see manual) you can run the machine with the side cover off and watch the oil flow up to the intermediate gear and the worm gear. If it isn't feeding the gear adjust the disk per the manual. While you have the oil handy add a few drops to the infeed and out feed roll bearings especially on the opposite side from the gear box since they aren't supplied oil from the gear box. Hopefully you downloaded the manual from the OWWM site and have read it or have it available for reference. Here is a link to the manual http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=1061


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