# Lie-Nielsen Holdfast



## stevenmadden (Dec 10, 2009)

I ordered a pair:

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=Holdfast

Just wanted to get the word out that they are now being made by Lie-Nielsen.

Steven


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## jap (Oct 10, 2012)

have fun, and keep us informed how well they work.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

I know cast ductile iron is supposed to be closer to steel in its characteristics than to cast gray iron, but please forgive me if I remain skeptical. My ductile iron holdfasts, purchased from Woodcraft, are worthless. They have no spring in them.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

I have these for about 1/3 the price and they work great. I'm anxious to see how much better the LN's are.


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## Kreegan (Jul 10, 2012)

I looked at these and almost ordered a pair, but they require a very thick bench top (2 3/4" - 4"). My bench is only 1 1/2" thick. I know I could add reinforcement around the dog holes, but if I were going to do that, I'd just build a new bench, and I'm not really interested in doing that just for these holdfasts. Post a review when you get a chance to try them out.


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## BrandonW (Apr 27, 2010)

I have the Gramercy ones (pictured above by DVK) and love them. That said, I'd be curious to know how well the LN ones work. They definitely have a bit more style than the Gramercy ones.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

"ductile cast iron" + smacking with a mallet = me not impressed…

I'm sure they did their tests on those to make sure they work fine, but to me that combination at that price range is unnecessary. I have the same FORGED set like DKV posted above for a smiggen of the LN price tag that I don't think can be beat.


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## stevenmadden (Dec 10, 2009)

*crank49, DKV, Brandon W, PurpLev*: I am no expert, and you are all probably right, but I have never been disappointed with any Lie-Nielsen product. I have a considerable collection of their tools (and like to think I know how to use them), so I guess I am willing to purchase these based on brand loyalty alone. We will see…

Steven


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

Steven,

They do look elegant, and it coming from a house name like LN I have to assume they are well made and should perform just like you'd expect any LN item to perform. My comment was more personal.

let us know how you like them.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Who sells the forged ones?


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

This is not easy to understand lot's of people make these I have the record with the iron built in brackets and adjustable from above with a screw.I see you are saying because lie neilson make these now they might somehow be superior,Maybe they will be it is worth seeing what others think although I find both they and veritas overpriced for their stuff my 2 cents worth. Alistair


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

Who sells the forged ones?
Usually the Chinese LOL Alistair


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## Handtooler (Jul 24, 2012)

I have the forged ones from Woodcraft and they only hold well with w leather pad on the gripper foot. But, for me they'll do till I get better at handtooling. Thanks for the LN and Gramercy tools. I'll step up some day.


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## stevenmadden (Dec 10, 2009)

*SCOTSMAN*: I am not saying that they are (or will be) superior, I was simply stating that my reason for purchasing them was based on my brand loyalty. I have yet to go wrong with a Lie-Nielsen product, I will be sure to let you know if this turns out to be the first.

*Everyone*: I cannot argue the merit of this product, I have not used them (or any holdfast for that matter). I posted this thread to let people know that Lie-Nielsen is now making holdfasts…


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

My Point is they should be far superior at those prices don't you agree.Their stuff is well made but they don't come cheap.Maybe that's a good thing I just don't know.I do however understand where your coming from and I wish you many years of happy useage as long as you are happy what can I or anyone else say? . 
I find veritas just as bad actually probably worse not any of them for their better made stuff but should we be expected to pay a lot of money for a small ( easily made) dovetail angle guides etc etc etc .Some of their products like the expensive dovetail guides are beyond understanding and could be made in five minutes by any competent woodworker .Then they stick a bit of brass on most of their products and make them look pretty if not functional maybe thet's after all is what we are being expected to pay for!!. Looks without question do often sell a product but most of their low end novelties can be done without and are an insult to any intelligent woodworker IMHO Alistair


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## RiverWood (Nov 4, 2010)

I have some of the cheap cast ones, they in no way compare to the forged ones. But I made them useable by filing 1\16 grooves in them. (think F-clamps)


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Scots, two questions for you:
1. Do you own any Apple products?
2. How do your replies get here so fast? Have they installed the internet in Scotland?


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

I'm afraid somewhere the terminology got its wires crossed.

FORGED = hammered out of a red hot heated, steel rod, like by a blacksmith. This is what Gramercy sells.

CAST= metal that was melted in a furnace and poured into a mold. This is how the cheap Indian and Chinese products are made. And now LN.

Cast iron = iron with usually about 3-6% carbon content in the form of graphite flakes. It is very brittle, Makes good tables for saws and motor housings and beds for lathes. Strong in compression but weak in tensile strength.

Ductile iron = iron with about 3% carbon that was treated with an innoculant, like magnesium, to cause the carbon flakes to become very tiny balls. Makes the iron much less brittle, and behave more like steel with similar tensile strength.


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## stevenmadden (Dec 10, 2009)

*SCOTSMAN*: I will not be able to answer whether or not they are "far superior" even after I get them and use them; I have never used any holdfast with my workbench (which happens to be the Lie-Nielsen "Improved" workbench). I do know this; If I am unhappy in any way, they will make it right.

*Everyone*: I hear what some of you are saying; cast ductile iron equals crap. *crank49* has compared this new Lie-Nielsen offering to "cheap Indian and Chinese products". To that I say, we will see. In my experience, Lie-Niesen is not in the habit of putting out products that are equal to or less than "cheap Indian and Chinese crap"...

As an aside, I purchased the Lie-Nielsen medium shoulder plane before I knew which size shoulder plane I wanted/needed. My thought was that it was "between" the large and the small and would therefore cover the most ground. After a few months of using the medium shoulder plane I discovered that it didn't fit my hand very well and I did not enjoy using it. I called the folks at Lie-Nilesen and explained my situation; they took back the medium should plane and gave me a full refund, no questions asked. I ended up purchasing both the small and large shoulder planes from Lie-Nielsen and have enjoyed using them both (the small is my favorite, and the most used of the two).


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

The original post is to let people know that these items are now available. Why all the drama?

Steve,
Thanks for the information. Let us know how you like them after you have had a chance to use them for a while - well, if you dare. I have the ones like DKV has and they are very useful. I bet that you find that you use them a lot.


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## paratrooper34 (Apr 27, 2010)

Steven, I also own several LN tools and you are spot on; they are top-notch tools with quality that is used for comparisons by woodworking magazines. I have no doubt that those holdfasts will serve you well. Seems to me that a company known for being a high quality producer would do maybe just a little testing on their wares and, now I am really going out on a limb here, probably didn't import them from India or China. I have the Grammercy holdfasts and don't need any more. If I did, I would absolutely purchase LN's.

Thanks again for the heads up.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

I've read this thread and learned a few things. First and foremost, LN is selling hold fasts. Second (and may thereafter), there are a lot of LJs with hang-ups out there, ranging from issues with companies (Veritas and LN and Apple), to nations (India and China) to base metals (iron and brass).

Glad y'all got a chance to vent.


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## DocBailey (Dec 9, 2011)

*CRANK49*:
Don't think your characterization of the Gramercy holdfasts is correct. Check this out from their description of the tool:
"But the only holdfasts we could get were cast ones, which aren't very good, or really expensive hand forged ones, which can be quite nice, but also variable and expensive. So about a year ago, after getting a shipment of cast holdfasts that were so brittle as to be totally useless (though inexpensive), we gave up and started thinking about solutions. We ended up designing a tool ourselves: a modern holdfast, made of modern formed wire, in a modern factory."


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## stevenmadden (Dec 10, 2009)

*Everyone*: I am posting this for those that might be interested, it is not meant to be part of any argument. I was curious about some of the responses to this thread, so I sent an e-mail to Christopher Schwarz asking him the following:

Mr. Schwarz,

Lie-Nielsen has recently come out with what they call a "cast ductile iron" holdfast. Do you have any experience with this new product? If so, please point me to where I can read or hear about what you think. If not, would you be willing to give me your opinion based on the description ( http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=Holdfast )?

I also mentioned that I had already ordered a set and was not looking for him to make up my mind for me. Here was his response (within a few hours):

Steven,

I was a prototype tester for that holdfast. It works like crazy and has taken an enormous beating for months and months on my bench.

Again, this was posted for those who might be interested, not as an argument…

Steven


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

I am a fan of LN tools and have a lot of them, yet at $90 they seem to me a bit too expensive when the Veritas hold down is $79. Of course, the LN holdfast seems a bit more "traditional" than the Veritas, so that might be a matter of choice.

I have no doubt that the LN holdfast are of high quality and will not disappoint.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Whoa. I did not mean to say, or even imply, the LN holdfasts were cheap like the Indian or Chinese cast ones.
Just pointing out that they were make by the same method.
I did go on to point out that *ductile iron *is modified iron that has *similar* characteristics *to steel*.

My comment was directed at some posts that were referring to cast and forged interchangably. And they are not, they are two different processes.

Doc Bailey: I don't think I mischaracterized the Gramercy holdfast at all. I said they were forged from heated steel rod. Thats what their press release says, other than they called it wire instead of rod. They did point out their product was made in a factory instead of by hand. I only said they were forged,* like by hand*, not meaning they were actually made by hand. I sometimes forget everyone does not come from a foundry, forging, metalworking background. When I say forged I rarely mean hand forged. The blacksmith reference was only to create a mental picture of a hot rod being shapped into a tool.

A company I used to work for came up with a ductile iron component that replaced a forged steel component in automatic transmissions. You probably are using this part yourself every time you set your transmission into "park". Ductile iron can be a cost effective replacement for steel in many cases.


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## stevenmadden (Dec 10, 2009)

*Update*: They arrived yesterday and look great. Now I need to drill some holes in my bench in order to put them to work. I have the tools to make the 3/4" holes in my 4" thick bench top and 3" thick legs, but am undecided as to where they should be located. I have an idea where I might need them most but am open to any of your suggestions. Thanks in advance…

Steven


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## Kreegan (Jul 10, 2012)

I have my dog holes in kind of an L pattern on my bench. 2 rows along the front of the bench and 3 rows up the right hand side.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

My view is a little different than Rich expressed; I'm all about 'fewer is better.'

One row of holes along the front, and three towards the back, to cinch battens. That's all I have.


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## stevenmadden (Dec 10, 2009)

*Kreegan* and *Smitty_Cabinetshop*: My bench already has square dog holes along the front, which includes the tail vise. Any suggestions as to where the most useful holes would be other than along the front? Thanks for the help.

Steven


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## stevenmadden (Dec 10, 2009)

Here is a picture of my bench in use:










I would like to replace the red "F" clamp with a holdfast. You can also see the square dog hole placement to the right. I am also wanting to put a few holes in the front leg below the tail vise to work in conjunction with the shoulder vise. Again, any thoughts are welcome.

Steven


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## Jaepheth (Jan 15, 2013)

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/item/MS-HOLDFAST.XX

Is where you buy the steel wire ones.
I've read that you may have to scuff the shafts of these for a few seconds with 120grit sandpaper to get them to hold properly.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

measure the reach of your holdfast and make a 2nd row of round holds somewhat centered with your workbench to utilize that reach as best to hold the type of projects you are working on. space the holes so that the reach of the holdfast will overlap ever so slightly so have full coverage along the bench.

just my $0.02


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

My local blacksmith made me three of them for $10.00 each and they work perfectly.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

LN tools are usually really great, but I think I would prefer wrought iron for this application. I had a Amos Tucker make me a pair for $55 and wouldn't trade them for a pair LN's. They are beautiful and work perfectly. Here is a link?.


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## stevenmadden (Dec 10, 2009)

*PurpLev*: Thanks for the advice. I will have to take some measurements when I get home and see if it will work.


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## Kreegan (Jul 10, 2012)

Do you work on very wide boards often? If I get the plane anymore than about 8-10 in away from the front edge of my bench, it gets awkward to push and control. If you don't work on wide stock a lot, I'd say put your new holes around 11-13 in from the front, assuming the holdfasts have about a 3 in reach.


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## stevenmadden (Dec 10, 2009)

*Kreegan*: I just finished building an armoire which had panels that were 28" wide (or so), so I guess the answer to your question would be "sometimes". Your advice to place them 11-13" from the front is similar to that of *PurpLev*, being that my bench is 24" wide, that would place them in the middle. I just have to figure out how to space them. I am thinking that less is more, in my case anyway…

Steven


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