# Maybe the beginning of a larger project



## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*Figuring out angles*

How's that for a wishy washy title ?

I've been toying with the idea of building myself a small sailboat so the kids and I can putter about and maybe have some fun fishing from it. I am also hoping we can have fun putting it together so I don't want to get too ambitious right out of the gate.

This weekend I find myself with a bit of time on my hands so I thought I'd experiment with some of the methods folks have described about making a mast. Now before all you folks who actually know what you are doing think I am completely off my rocker by building the mast first I must stress I am NOT building a mast I am just puttering around to see what one of the techniques would result in. It is the first saw dust I've made in a long while so it felt good to be back in the shop. ...life has an inexorable way of keeping us out of our shops sometime :-(

Any way this is what resulted:










and from the end….









It turned out surprisingly well considering I just kind of eyeballed the angles. I did try to impart a small taper but my method didn't give me the result I was hoping for. This prototype did raise a few questions though. Is this type of construction actually strong enough for a mast? I'd been thinking as I did this that I may need to make a laminated core to fit down the middle as additional stiffening. Should I be using 'triangle' cross sections instead of just trapezoids? I realized the geometry was simple enough to draw out but that when it came time to actually begin cutting the pieces out that I could not quite wrap my head around how the pieces should be cut without setting up the saw too many times.

Any advice greatly appreciated


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Figuring out angles*
> 
> How's that for a wishy washy title ?
> 
> ...


Nice try Mark but do a search for bird's mouth joint. That's what you want for this sort of job.
They are easily cut on a tablesaw, they self align when assembled and can be tapered if you like.
The only clamp you need is a bungee cord.

All that said, if you mean a small sailboat like a sabot (8') then your mast would be solid.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Figuring out angles*
> 
> How's that for a wishy washy title ?
> 
> ...


Here you go. http://www.woodworkstuff.net/EDBirdM.html
This is just the first example I found, there are surely better ones. Disregard what he says about clamping. You just apply glue to all the surfaces and wrap it tight with a bungee. It self-aligns and just gets tighter as you wrap.
Absolutely no reason to use clamps.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Figuring out angles*
> 
> How's that for a wishy washy title ?
> 
> ...


Lee Valley is where I got my birds mouth bit.

Oddly when I seen your title I was going to recommend contacting shipwright for information.


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Figuring out angles*
> 
> How's that for a wishy washy title ?
> 
> ...


I got my bits from MLCS in Philadelphia.


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## Ampeater (Feb 21, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Figuring out angles*
> 
> How's that for a wishy washy title ?
> 
> ...


Years ago NORM made a flagpole using the same technique that you have started. See this link.

http://www.newyankee.com/index.php?id=53#!/~/product/id=7916634


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Figuring out angles*
> 
> How's that for a wishy washy title ?
> 
> ...


Mark…your goals are perfect--HAVE FUN…

While I know my build(s) are not fine examples--I would highly suggest spending time on the PDR website…people row them, sail and motor them…

Check out:

http://www.pdracer.com/

I especially find the site map page helpful once I have visited the home page:

http://www.pdracer.com/site-map.php

As for me--I AM OFFICIALLY NAPA-man again…after a tough year we literally just moved back to Napa this week…where I have LOTS of space on my patio for the boats AND a dedicated shop space right next to my patio…I hope to get out and set up my shop this week…

Matt


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Figuring out angles*
> 
> How's that for a wishy washy title ?
> 
> ...


The cool thing about birdsmouth joints is that you can cut them on the TS so easily.
1) divide 360 by the number of sides you want.
2) set your TS to that number
3) run one side of the board through twice, first on edge and then flat
I have a couple of tapered 8" diameter walnut columns I my living room that were assembled this way before turning.
The joints are invisible and the walls near the joints are quite thin but the glue joint is rock solid.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Figuring out angles*
> 
> How's that for a wishy washy title ?
> 
> ...


Thank you very much folks! This is exactly the kind of information that makes LJs such a great website.

Paul the birdsmouth idea was exactly what I was looking for. That it can be cut on the table saw is even better.

I've seen those birdsmouth bits in the catalogues, I think I am going to try the tablesaw first.

Your photo James101 really helps interpret the info in tne link Paul provided. Once I get a more reliable net connection I'll have to check out the other links.

For now I'm going to use the pre-internet way of learning stuff….I am gonna go to the shop and make mistakes

Happy Canada Day!


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Figuring out angles*
> 
> How's that for a wishy washy title ?
> 
> ...


Hey Matt, sorry to hear about the rough patch you and your family have been going through. Hopefully better days are in site now that you are back in Napa. Are you back at the same school?

I have been looking at the Puddle Ducks and I think they are perhaps the least expensive project to start with. I've holidays coming up in a couple of weeks and I've been debating as to whether I should just work through em or maybe build a boat. Things have been kind a rough on the homefront here and the folks at the office have been pretty sympathetic to my work therapy approach to coping. But maybe I should get out and build a boat instead of burying myself at the office.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*Cutting the first sheet!*

Well I got my plywood home, although the fellow at the lumber yard looked at me kinda funny when I asked him to load load it on top of my RAV4 









I marked off my stations, measured for the cut lines, nailed, and the drew my cutlines along the station points.


















My circ saw is a bit dodgy so I thought I'd just join the two panels together and cut them on the bandsaw which worked pretty good. The cut, as you might expect when 'guiding an 8' long 2' wide sheet from the far end, was not as fair as I would have liked but a bit of hand planing took the worst of it out. I just have to touch up a few a spots and I'll have a fair curve along the hole lower edge. The nice part of having the two side cut at once and then planed at once is that the curve will be the same on both once they are separated. 









I've got a bit of a bump still to smooth out but it was late, I was beat and the heat was getting to me a bit. Hey I'm from Manitoba -30 doesn't phase me but plus thirty and I start to melt like an ice cream cone on an August sidewalk  . So far I've spent about 54 dollars and about three hours. I also cut the frame braces and something I think is called the chine logs? I may have my terminology a bit garbled. After church I came home and intended to do a bunch more but went for a drive with Jennifer. Then friends invited me to dinner in their town about an hour away so I just cleaned up and had a great dinner, then I had to head back into work for a bit. In fact I am writing this as I am about to leave work and head home ( the connectivity is much more reliable here). I plan to finish fairing and lay out my bulkheads and perhaps cut them out tomorrow evening.

I am thinking of gluing and ring nailing these frame pieces into place. The web page talks about using Titebond II is there a better glue to use? Should I even be gluing these together?

Good night!


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Cutting the first sheet!*
> 
> Well I got my plywood home, although the fellow at the lumber yard looked at me kinda funny when I asked him to load load it on top of my RAV4
> 
> ...


PDR! Now I feel like a slacker and this will motivate me! Since I was already building the Weekendrr I was used to epoxy which is 100%waterproof,but expensive.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Cutting the first sheet!*
> 
> Well I got my plywood home, although the fellow at the lumber yard looked at me kinda funny when I asked him to load load it on top of my RAV4
> 
> ...


Good for you Mark. Yes they are called chine logs but if it were me, I'd stitch and glue.
This is your first boat though so you should follow what the plans say.
OK, with the possible exception of the Tightbond part. What are they thinking?
I've seen little dinghies like this successfully glued with construction adhesive.
A polyurethane like Sika Flex is an excellent choice. Epoxy is hands down the best.
But Tightbond …... I certainly wouldn't.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Cutting the first sheet!*
> 
> Well I got my plywood home, although the fellow at the lumber yard looked at me kinda funny when I asked him to load load it on top of my RAV4
> 
> ...


I won't attempt to give you any advice as you are already getting the best. It is fun and interesting to see you tackle this project though and follow your trials and tribulations with it. I always wanted to build a boat, but never did. The next best thing is watching someone else doing it.

Is that marine plywood you're using, or is regular plywood ok for this build? If it is marine plywood, doe's it costs more? A dealer here in Norway told me that waterproof glues are used on all plywood these days, but I don't know if that is true, or if marine ply has something more than just waterproof glue to make it marine grade.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Cutting the first sheet!*
> 
> Well I got my plywood home, although the fellow at the lumber yard looked at me kinda funny when I asked him to load load it on top of my RAV4
> 
> ...


Matt maybe we should have a race to see who finishes first…wait that might back fire on me. Maybe who ever finishes first has to sail to the others and help them finish. Although I don't think the PDR would be very good going through the Northwest Passage to get to the Pacific LOL! I should find out what epoxy and cloth would cost.

Thank you Paul for the information on the adhesives. I didn't think Titebond would be good for wet environs. I have been reading a fair bit on boat building and ran across some Whitehall dingies that use stitch and glue and that is actually what got me interested in attempting a boat. The cost of building that dingy was considerably more. It was also a very nice looking boat. I am kind of holding that boat out as a carrot for myself to learn to sail in what is supposed to be a very stable and forgiving platform. I am also hopeful that my kids,Lauren 10 and Paul 8, will be able to sail her as well. Would you still need chine logs with stitch and glue or would you just place strategic reinforcing at the joints once the bottom was on? I'm using 3/8 plywood through out as 1/4 inch isn't readily available here. Because I swim as well as my bandsaw I want this to be a pretty stable craft. I am building flotation boxes that run the length of the boat and was thinking it might work better just to epoxy them in place instead of nailing and then gluing.

Stefang the plywood used is the least expensive construction grade plywood. This boat is really a big prototype for me to learn to sail on and to see if I can actually build a boat. Once I feel a little more confident in my building and sailing skills I plan to attempt a second more sophisticated boat, probably of stitch and glue construction. My understanding is that as long as the boat isn't continually sitting in water the inexpensive plywood if properly sealed should stand up to sailing. That is why I questioned the Titebond as a glue because I was pretty certain it wasn't designed to be used in wet conditions.

If you folks ever find yourselves in Brandon swing on by the coffee is always on…I'll probably be in the shop out back


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Cutting the first sheet!*
> 
> Well I got my plywood home, although the fellow at the lumber yard looked at me kinda funny when I asked him to load load it on top of my RAV4
> 
> ...


Check all my advice against Paul's (and then take his if we contradict each other!!!)...

I would definitely try to acquire 1/4" for at least the boat bottom. When plywood is bent/curved over a frame it is strong. My worry on 3/8 throughout will be the over all weight.

Epoxy is way more expensive then glue--but if this is boat #1 then you will have left over (from building a pdr)...and can save it for boat two.

Everything I have read about this boat is that it is easy to sail--kids and adults…which is exactly why I decided to get Sidetracked (working name of my PDR) from my weekender build and build this.

MARK--its a race--however I am MUCH further along…and I now have my DEDICATED shop back…my boatssss on my patio…so…your inspiration may push me to completion QUICKLY…

Of course my last pdr update said I would be done in weeks--and that was 503 days ago (I am so embarrassed!!! They build pdr's in "hatchings--one weekend events all over the country!)...

May your build go FAST AND SMOOTH…just as your sailing!


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Cutting the first sheet!*
> 
> Well I got my plywood home, although the fellow at the lumber yard looked at me kinda funny when I asked him to load load it on top of my RAV4
> 
> ...


You can get a pretty good overview of stitch and glue in my blog on the subject and as you'll see, there are no chine logs, or fastenings of any kind.

I wouldn't worry too much about extra weight but 3/8" is certainly conservative for this small a boat. The 20' ferries in the blog were only 3/8" and they carry 12 passengers plus the skipper. As for fastenings, there are hardly any in the ferries, it's all glue. I used Industrial Formulators of Canada epoxies. They have been bought out by System Three but you can still buy their products under mostly the same names. Look for ColdCure for general bonding and S1 for interior sealing. I used ColdCure for cloth as well but they now have a product called Silvertip laminating resin that is thinner and penetrates cloth more easily.

*Mike*, The main difference in marine plywood these days is a guarantee of no voids in the crossband layers. They are all glued with waterproof glue.

*Mark*, Make sure you seal the ends of any of those voids in core layers or they will cause problems.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Cutting the first sheet!*
> 
> Well I got my plywood home, although the fellow at the lumber yard looked at me kinda funny when I asked him to load load it on top of my RAV4
> 
> ...


I have reviewed your stitch and glue blog a couple of times. Now that I am actually building something I think I'll need to go over it a few more times with a much more intense focus.

One thing that does pop to mind is how does everything stay in place while the epoxy sets? I can see on the outside stiched joints because you sort of have the opposing pieces holding everything. I am wondering how the bulkheads stay put while you are working on them and until it all cures. I know you've said that this can be done without fasteners and that is appealing to me, I just don't want to assume something and then find myself glued up inside my own collapsing bulkheads I would imagine you have to pace your installation of pieces to the curing time of the epoxy (not that I'm exactly a fireball when it comes to construction but I can get impatient with things if I've got the bit in my teeth).

The real advantage of building the PDR with stitch and glue is that I could get familiar with that technique and epoxying as part of the prototype process. The more I think about it the more I like that idea. I know you've mentioned the different types of cloth and I think you recommended the double bias cloth. My understanding is that cloth has the warp and woof of the fibres running at a 45 degree angle to the long axis which seems to me should provide more resistance to stretching or tearing along the joints because the fibres are likely across the joint instead of along the joint. While there is a significant cost difference between the two I don't mind building the thing that I am out floating in to be not the result of cheaping out on materials. I am curious about and would like to learn why you use this fabric instead of the 'regular' weave.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Cutting the first sheet!*
> 
> Well I got my plywood home, although the fellow at the lumber yard looked at me kinda funny when I asked him to load load it on top of my RAV4
> 
> ...


Technically, the bulkheads aren't stitch and glue because there's no stitching. They require some form of structure to hold them in place and once in place they are simply filleted with epoxy to keep them there. Usually these are assemblies that support themselves, ie: bulkheads and floor stringers or seat risers and flats. If they are single pieces you may have to arrange some temporary supports while the glue cures.

Stretching and tearing aren't the issue once the cloth is imbedded in epoxy, it is simple reinforcement. With "regular weave" half of the fibres run parallel to the joint and don't help at all with bi-axial you can get all the fibres crossing the joint.

I'll PM you my email address and we can get further into this when I get back on Tues.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Cutting the first sheet!*
> 
> Well I got my plywood home, although the fellow at the lumber yard looked at me kinda funny when I asked him to load load it on top of my RAV4
> 
> ...


Thanks Paul. I trust you'll have a great sail!


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*Real life intervenes yet again :-(*

Have only had a few moments these last couple of days to get in the shop. I've faired the lines a bit more but am not quite satisfied with the result so I need to spend a bit more time. I'd cut my chine logs but I am now really considering using stitch and glue instead to learn more about the method so when it comes time to build myself a 'pullin' boat I won't be completely new at it. I really like the looks of those Whitehall gigs. Well gotta get back to the office and keep going, on the upside holidays are not too far away!










Potentially the new site of my shop and home. If things work according to plan  The shop (on the left) is actually bigger than the living quarters.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Real life intervenes yet again :-(*
> 
> Have only had a few moments these last couple of days to get in the shop. I've faired the lines a bit more but am not quite satisfied with the result so I need to spend a bit more time. I'd cut my chine logs but I am now really considering using stitch and glue instead to learn more about the method so when it comes time to build myself a 'pullin' boat I won't be completely new at it. I really like the looks of those Whitehall gigs. Well gotta get back to the office and keep going, on the upside holidays are not too far away!
> 
> ...


good luck with the new space! good luck with the stitch and glue…I am not sure its necessary on the PDR…but I totally understand the thinking of using the PDR as a learning tool…

The whole reason I started building her is because I want to learn to sail on it…so when I finish the weekender I will feel ready to sail…so I get it!

good luck…


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Real life intervenes yet again :-(*
> 
> Have only had a few moments these last couple of days to get in the shop. I've faired the lines a bit more but am not quite satisfied with the result so I need to spend a bit more time. I'd cut my chine logs but I am now really considering using stitch and glue instead to learn more about the method so when it comes time to build myself a 'pullin' boat I won't be completely new at it. I really like the looks of those Whitehall gigs. Well gotta get back to the office and keep going, on the upside holidays are not too far away!
> 
> ...


here is what I am going for:

http://www.pdracer.com/sail/mutton/

If you use the pdracer.com--SITE MAP you will see a whole slew of sail plans…this is supposedly the easiest to learn and rig and sail…

matt


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Real life intervenes yet again :-(*
> 
> Have only had a few moments these last couple of days to get in the shop. I've faired the lines a bit more but am not quite satisfied with the result so I need to spend a bit more time. I'd cut my chine logs but I am now really considering using stitch and glue instead to learn more about the method so when it comes time to build myself a 'pullin' boat I won't be completely new at it. I really like the looks of those Whitehall gigs. Well gotta get back to the office and keep going, on the upside holidays are not too far away!
> 
> ...


I hope the new place works out for you. Looks like giant workshop, something many of would like. I think the stitch and glue is worth learning, especially on a small boat, good idea!


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Real life intervenes yet again :-(*
> 
> Have only had a few moments these last couple of days to get in the shop. I've faired the lines a bit more but am not quite satisfied with the result so I need to spend a bit more time. I'd cut my chine logs but I am now really considering using stitch and glue instead to learn more about the method so when it comes time to build myself a 'pullin' boat I won't be completely new at it. I really like the looks of those Whitehall gigs. Well gotta get back to the office and keep going, on the upside holidays are not too far away!
> 
> ...


I'd been leaning toward the LoM sail also.

The new property is just a shade better than a dream right now…there is a lot of sorting stuff out before I can make some decisions.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*Bulkheads cut and mast material bought*

Made good progress today. Cut out the longitudinal bulkheads for the flotation compartments and then sandwiched all four pieces together to fair them all at the same time.









It is amazing to me how much wood can be removed with a hand plane. This being pine plywood I can set the good ol' block plane for a more aggressive cut than I've ever done in maple or oak and was just hogging off great ribbons of material! I messed up cutting a bit so I briefly thought of breaking out the jigsaw to trim the edges back but my jigsaw and I don't get along some days. Its got a real quirky blade mount the infuriates me two out of the three times I go to use it. Once I started using the block plane I think I actually got it done faster then if I'd messed about with the jigsaw.

You can see the less than straight cut here. Trued it up in no time.










I also bought another sheet of plywood for the top of the flotation boxes and I bought a 16 foot 2X6 for the mast. I was going to rip it tonight to width but the mosquitos are just fierce this evening. I am a bit concerned that I can only find 3/8 material here and how much heavier it'll make the boat. I intend to weigh the pieces i have so far to get an idea of just how much weight I have to deal with. I suppose if I had any kind of patience I could order the plywood in…but I want to get out on the water so I guess I'll have to work with what I got.

I figure to rip it in the morning and the glue it up later in the evening just to see how much it'll twist. Maybe I should just rip it and glue it up right away and trap any twisting it may do? Not sure there, I guess I'll try it one way and if it doesn't work I'll try the other.

My internet connection is failing, I'll try a update tomorrow


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Bulkheads cut and mast material bought*
> 
> Made good progress today. Cut out the longitudinal bulkheads for the flotation compartments and then sandwiched all four pieces together to fair them all at the same time.
> 
> ...


Nice job so far.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Bulkheads cut and mast material bought*
> 
> Made good progress today. Cut out the longitudinal bulkheads for the flotation compartments and then sandwiched all four pieces together to fair them all at the same time.
> 
> ...


Great progress! Dont forget you will need to re-true once you have stringers on bottom edge…so dont stress about perfection yet…

Remember Paul mentioned 3/8th is okay in terms of weight…

Exciting! I am anxious to get moving again this coming week…my next move is to figure out my leeboard connection (framed or bolt), then I can close up airboxes and flip her over and GLASS the bottom…

Keep up the progress!

matt


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Bulkheads cut and mast material bought*
> 
> Made good progress today. Cut out the longitudinal bulkheads for the flotation compartments and then sandwiched all four pieces together to fair them all at the same time.
> 
> ...


Looks great. Waiting for the next installment.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*Port side chine logs installed!*

Saturday was a pretty productive day. I spent the morning trying to locate a local source of two part epoxy. Other than those little syringes of glue the sell in blister packs I was SOL. Canadian tire had epoxies but the didn't have the thin wetting fabric kind, theirs already had the thixotropic ingredients in already. The only fabric they sold came in big squares not rolls so it would have meant a lot of working with short pieces and a lot more cutting of the fabric. I did find a large can of epoxy at Princess Auto but it wasn't a brand I recognized and I wasn't really comfortable with the sparse directions…perhaps if I knew what I was doing but…

In order to get as much done as possible I decided to proceed with the chine log construction as the closest epoxy and fabric source is a 5 hour drive away….it kinda kicks the stuffing out of the boat budget if I spend on gas almost what it'd cost me for the epoxy. I had cut chine logs a while ago from a 2×10 I had stored from another project. In my reading of the PDR website they recommend 7/8" chine logs so I trimmed down what I had. In retrospect I probably could have still bent what I'd originally cut.









Those thinner strips are the chine logs. You may notice some of them have a pronounced curve. The beauty of using kiln dried construction grade lumber  But there is an upside to this unintentional bending…I used the natural curve to complement the more severe curve I was imposing thus actually reducing the net stress on those select 'bent' elements. 









In using the curved pieces I positioned them on the boat to best advantage which left a bunch of material extending beyond the plywood side. When I trimmed the pieces with my trusty handsaw I realized that they were cut to the exact angle I needed to properly fit the cutoffs into the vertical fore and aft chine logs! It was almost like I'd planned it that way LOL!

I cut the front one spot on and was feeling quite pleased with myself…until I attempted the back one :-( I got cocky and eyeballed it as I had done the front one, well lets just say after the 3rd piece I finally got it…I don't know how I screwed up the measurement! Eyeballing sure that is easy for me to botch but how difficult is it to cut a trapezoid 32.7 cm long… it was at this point I thought I'd take a break

Earlier I had ripped the 2×6 I'd bought for the mast. Keep in mind this is Home Depot construction grade pine so clear wood is not even a concept there. You get what you pay for Last time I was wondering if I should rip and let it sit or rip and glue. I decided to glue immediately after ripping, we'll see if this was a good idea. This mast may just turn out to be another prototype and I may spring for the Sitka spruce Paul recommended. 









This is why we have the adage that you can never have too many clamps LOL! I used up all my clamps and would have liked a few more. I was going to trim the taper on 1) the bandsaw 2) the tablesaw or 3) on the jointer but decided to use handplanes as a more controlled way of shaping the mast. There is just something about hand planing I am enjoying more and more. I think this stems partially from having good tools and not fighting with my inheritted No.4s. Or maybe I am just learning how to effectively use a plane. I do like the heft and solidity of my Lee Valley planes!









Following Paul (shipwright's) advice I'm going to plane the corners successively until I have something resembling a tapered column.

I was asked to post the plans I am using. I am using the plans and tips and instructions from the PDRacer.com website. If you Google Puddle Duck Racers or PDR racers you'll find a bunch of links. Most importantly there are some pretty good resources here on LJs. I mentioned Paul aka shipwright a couple of times…if you are thinking of building a boat check out Paul's blogs. Napaman or Matt is a fellow LJ who is also racing to build a PDR and I've got to hustle to pass him otherwise I'm gonna find out how the PDR handles the ice of the Northwest Passage LOL!

Actual working time this weekend is about 7 hours and I spent another $15 on plywood and I think about $15 for the 2×6! So I am in the $80 range so far. Mind you I am using 'stock' inventory for the chine logs and I intend to use up all the remnant cans of paint on this boat so there won't be a lot of cost there. If you see a funny loking sailboat with pink flotation tanks its a good chance its my first boat I am planning to itemize all the costs as I incur them so by the end I should have a fair idea of what a second would cost. I know already it would go much faster and efficiently. I'm learning every time I work on this boat!


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## Boatman53 (May 21, 2012)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Port side chine logs installed!*
> 
> Saturday was a pretty productive day. I spent the morning trying to locate a local source of two part epoxy. Other than those little syringes of glue the sell in blister packs I was SOL. Canadian tire had epoxies but the didn't have the thin wetting fabric kind, theirs already had the thixotropic ingredients in already. The only fabric they sold came in big squares not rolls so it would have meant a lot of working with short pieces and a lot more cutting of the fabric. I did find a large can of epoxy at Princess Auto but it wasn't a brand I recognized and I wasn't really comfortable with the sparse directions…perhaps if I knew what I was doing but…
> 
> ...


I'm surprised you can't find epoxy closer to you. Look into Jamestown Distrbuters they will ship it to your door. Good luck with the build.
Jim


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Port side chine logs installed!*
> 
> Saturday was a pretty productive day. I spent the morning trying to locate a local source of two part epoxy. Other than those little syringes of glue the sell in blister packs I was SOL. Canadian tire had epoxies but the didn't have the thin wetting fabric kind, theirs already had the thixotropic ingredients in already. The only fabric they sold came in big squares not rolls so it would have meant a lot of working with short pieces and a lot more cutting of the fabric. I did find a large can of epoxy at Princess Auto but it wasn't a brand I recognized and I wasn't really comfortable with the sparse directions…perhaps if I knew what I was doing but…
> 
> ...


Sounds like you are having fun Mark. As for shaping the mast, wouldn't it be easier and faster to rough it out with the bandsaw set at appropriate angles and then finish with the hand plane?


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## Boatman53 (May 21, 2012)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Port side chine logs installed!*
> 
> Saturday was a pretty productive day. I spent the morning trying to locate a local source of two part epoxy. Other than those little syringes of glue the sell in blister packs I was SOL. Canadian tire had epoxies but the didn't have the thin wetting fabric kind, theirs already had the thixotropic ingredients in already. The only fabric they sold came in big squares not rolls so it would have meant a lot of working with short pieces and a lot more cutting of the fabric. I did find a large can of epoxy at Princess Auto but it wasn't a brand I recognized and I wasn't really comfortable with the sparse directions…perhaps if I knew what I was doing but…
> 
> ...


Hey Mark, do a search for "spar gauge" for a handy tool to help you get a square tapered blank to a round tapered mast. They are easy to make and will save a lot of time.
Jim


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Port side chine logs installed!*
> 
> Saturday was a pretty productive day. I spent the morning trying to locate a local source of two part epoxy. Other than those little syringes of glue the sell in blister packs I was SOL. Canadian tire had epoxies but the didn't have the thin wetting fabric kind, theirs already had the thixotropic ingredients in already. The only fabric they sold came in big squares not rolls so it would have meant a lot of working with short pieces and a lot more cutting of the fabric. I did find a large can of epoxy at Princess Auto but it wasn't a brand I recognized and I wasn't really comfortable with the sparse directions…perhaps if I knew what I was doing but…
> 
> ...


Hey Jim, thanks for the tips about Jamestown Distributors and the spar gauge. I actually want to find a vendor that I talk with and bounce some questions off, but if I can't find that local I may have to go the ordering route. I have asked one of our local paint and hobby stores what they can find.

Hello Mike, I'd thought about using one of the power tools to shape the mast but I'm finding shaping it this way to be a pretty good stress relief. Unlike my 'paying the bills job' which has little tangible results, here I have a pile of shavings at my feet to show that I've actually done something tangible.

The biggest stumbling block I am having with the spar gauge is how does it mark out a taper? My internet connection is a bit dodgy so watching videos is painfully slow and herky-jerky. A new network should be up and running soon though! I'm afraid that I didn't quite get how the whole thing was set up using Pythagoras' theorum. I will need to spend a bit more time with it before I'll get it sorted in my head. It looks like a really good solution to marking out the spars. I am thinking I will need to make actual spars so this is certainly worth figuring out.


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## Boatman53 (May 21, 2012)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Port side chine logs installed!*
> 
> Saturday was a pretty productive day. I spent the morning trying to locate a local source of two part epoxy. Other than those little syringes of glue the sell in blister packs I was SOL. Canadian tire had epoxies but the didn't have the thin wetting fabric kind, theirs already had the thixotropic ingredients in already. The only fabric they sold came in big squares not rolls so it would have meant a lot of working with short pieces and a lot more cutting of the fabric. I did find a large can of epoxy at Princess Auto but it wasn't a brand I recognized and I wasn't really comfortable with the sparse directions…perhaps if I knew what I was doing but…
> 
> ...


Sorry if I confused you. The spar gauge doesn't mark the initial taper. When the mast is straight and square all around you mark on the end (top) what the plans say it should be. Then mark on the body of the spar the end of the full round/ beginning of the taper. Connect those two points Then with a band saw or plane remove the wood outside those lines. Now the spar gauge comes into play. It lays out the lines to plane the corners down, and because of the way it is used the lines are all in proportion even along the taper. Hope that cleared it up some, if not just ask away shipwright or I should be able to answer your questions.
Jim


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Port side chine logs installed!*
> 
> Saturday was a pretty productive day. I spent the morning trying to locate a local source of two part epoxy. Other than those little syringes of glue the sell in blister packs I was SOL. Canadian tire had epoxies but the didn't have the thin wetting fabric kind, theirs already had the thixotropic ingredients in already. The only fabric they sold came in big squares not rolls so it would have meant a lot of working with short pieces and a lot more cutting of the fabric. I did find a large can of epoxy at Princess Auto but it wasn't a brand I recognized and I wasn't really comfortable with the sparse directions…perhaps if I knew what I was doing but…
> 
> ...


That makes sense, if I'd thought a little more about that it probably would have occurred to me. I will be wanting to make oars and,I can't think of the terminology, the horizontal spar that holds the sail away from the mast. My apologies to all the sailors out there who are now cringing at the prairie boy's description of common sailing gear LOL!

I'm going to check out sitka spruce for the mast because the collection of knots I am currently working on may nit work so well. What would be good for oars. I'm thinking douglas fir because of its strength and light weight?

Mark


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## Boatman53 (May 21, 2012)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Port side chine logs installed!*
> 
> Saturday was a pretty productive day. I spent the morning trying to locate a local source of two part epoxy. Other than those little syringes of glue the sell in blister packs I was SOL. Canadian tire had epoxies but the didn't have the thin wetting fabric kind, theirs already had the thixotropic ingredients in already. The only fabric they sold came in big squares not rolls so it would have meant a lot of working with short pieces and a lot more cutting of the fabric. I did find a large can of epoxy at Princess Auto but it wasn't a brand I recognized and I wasn't really comfortable with the sparse directions…perhaps if I knew what I was doing but…
> 
> ...


I'm working on some oars now (but not in a rush to finish them 'cause the boat got all beat up in a storm, that's now on my next winter schedule). They are Sitka spruce. I have a guide boat that has Ash oars and I used Maple oars on another guide boat that I built. The last two have very thin looms with a lot of flex, they are very nice to row with.
Jim


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*Progress - pictures pending.*

Made some pretty good progress in the shop after I got home this evening. When I have a better network connection I will fill in more details.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Progress - pictures pending.*
> 
> Made some pretty good progress in the shop after I got home this evening. When I have a better network connection I will fill in more details.


no picts? LOL…you must be working fast! Just got back from the weekend…GET READY TO RUMBLLLLLLLE!


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*I am 3 dimensional!*

Its been a pretty productive couple of days, I left off having installed the chine logs on the port side. I now have the starboard side done the bow and transom pieces cut and their chine logs installed except for a goof up I'll reveal in a bit things have been going pretty good. Last night I left it like this…










It now looks a lot more boat like and it actually looks much roomier than my kayak so I am pretty pumped.

I then flipped it over to look like this….










and this is where I ran into a bit of a dilemma. Did I want the transom and bow pieces to overlap and protect the leading edge of the bottom plywood or the other way around ? In a similar way I pondered how the top of the flotation tanks should mate with the vertical pieces. Then I figured "I'm over thinking this" and I just used the tops of the tanks to provide that lip on top and I put a similar lip on the bottom. I figure I'm going to epoxy the whole shebang any way so I shouldn't worry too much about details like this.

So now it looks something like this…










You will notice right away the goof I talked about earlier…I forgot to install the horizontal bracing on both the transom and the bow so there was nothing to nail to. This is when I decided it was time for a coffee. Those of you with eagle eyes may notice that the bottom sheet isn't flush with the sides in fact there is a 3/8ths inch lip where I neglected to shorten the transom and bow to account for the width of the side plywood pieces. I wasn't going to pull all those ring nails just to fix a 'design element' so I'm counting on being able to smooth out the edges with epoxy and filler.

I did notice that some of the chine logs split when they had nails from two adjacent faces. Having used the chine logs I really want to try stitch and glue. I can see where it would be a more elegant solution. Considering I need to epoxy all the joints and edges (and blemishes in the plywood) I don't think the chine logs really save any effort. Mind you I've only read and viewed stitch and glue I should probably reserve judgement until I get a project under my belt

They warn you on the PDR website that boat building can be addictive…I think I now understand why. It really struck home how much fun this is when I drove up the other day and could smell fresh sawdust wafting out of my shop. It perked me up after a long day.

I will need to make a trip in to Winnipeg to pick up some epoxy and cloth so I am going to need to do a bit of phoning around to find what I need. Lee Valley only sells West epoxy does anybody have any experience with it?

Now I've got to start figuring out the interior stuff and the rudder and oars!

'Til next installment,

Mark


----------



## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *I am 3 dimensional!*
> 
> Its been a pretty productive couple of days, I left off having installed the chine logs on the port side. I now have the starboard side done the bow and transom pieces cut and their chine logs installed except for a goof up I'll reveal in a bit things have been going pretty good. Last night I left it like this…
> 
> ...


Nice Progress!!!! I will look at my epoxy--I cant remember if I am System Three or West Systems…I think I use West…lol…

I love the excitement! You are getting me excited…back from chico and put a finishing coat on another project (thank you gifts for moving help) and tomorrow I hope to TOUCH the pdr…

Matt


----------



## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *I am 3 dimensional!*
> 
> Its been a pretty productive couple of days, I left off having installed the chine logs on the port side. I now have the starboard side done the bow and transom pieces cut and their chine logs installed except for a goof up I'll reveal in a bit things have been going pretty good. Last night I left it like this…
> 
> ...


Looking good Mark. Yes you can fill with epoxy and an appropriate filler to make up any little goofs. After all in stitch and glue the epoxy is the chine log and sometimes the wood parts hardly even touch. As long as it is covered on the outside with cloth a myriad of sins can be forgiven with good epoxy. My personal preference has been IFC (now System Three) Cold Cure as the best general purpose boatbuilding resin but West is good too.

Why are you using ring nails? All you need fasteners for is to hold the pieces until the epoxy sets. After that they are just extra weight. You could use sheet metal screws and pull them afterwards. If the fastenings are splitting the wood they are too big. You could get by with a pin nailer too or in many places, just clamps.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *I am 3 dimensional!*
> 
> Its been a pretty productive couple of days, I left off having installed the chine logs on the port side. I now have the starboard side done the bow and transom pieces cut and their chine logs installed except for a goof up I'll reveal in a bit things have been going pretty good. Last night I left it like this…
> 
> ...


So close to hit the water now.
I get really jealous, hope one day to get the chance to build a boat.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *I am 3 dimensional!*
> 
> Its been a pretty productive couple of days, I left off having installed the chine logs on the port side. I now have the starboard side done the bow and transom pieces cut and their chine logs installed except for a goof up I'll reveal in a bit things have been going pretty good. Last night I left it like this…
> 
> ...


Making nice progress Mark, and you are getting a lot of valuable experience and some good advice as well.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *I am 3 dimensional!*
> 
> Its been a pretty productive couple of days, I left off having installed the chine logs on the port side. I now have the starboard side done the bow and transom pieces cut and their chine logs installed except for a goof up I'll reveal in a bit things have been going pretty good. Last night I left it like this…
> 
> ...


Yes--screws (most of which you pull back out and fill) or clamps…


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *I am 3 dimensional!*
> 
> Its been a pretty productive couple of days, I left off having installed the chine logs on the port side. I now have the starboard side done the bow and transom pieces cut and their chine logs installed except for a goof up I'll reveal in a bit things have been going pretty good. Last night I left it like this…
> 
> ...


I thought I read on the PDR page that they used ringed nails. Screws make a lot more sense, I should have done that instead. I think I'll finish up with screws.

Thanks for the advice on the epoxy, Paul. I think I'm going with West because they sell it in Winnipeg and I think I have a gift card for Lee Valley somewhere. I prefer all the information on System Three site and if I ever make another boat I'd certainly like to give it a try. They advertise all these different thixotropic additives. Are they necessary or could you just use sawdust mixed into the epoxy? I'm never quite sure what is marketing and which is actually sound advice. I guess that's why LJ's is so great

Come on Mike and Mafe and join the party, grab yourself a couple of sheets of plywood and jump on in


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *I am 3 dimensional!*
> 
> Its been a pretty productive couple of days, I left off having installed the chine logs on the port side. I now have the starboard side done the bow and transom pieces cut and their chine logs installed except for a goof up I'll reveal in a bit things have been going pretty good. Last night I left it like this…
> 
> ...


My preferred thickener (by a long shot) is called "mini fibres". I get it from my local plastics supplier who also sells System Three but it's not their product. Sawdust will not prevent epoxy from running and sagging. Mini fibres will.
Thry are listed near the bottom of this page.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *I am 3 dimensional!*
> 
> Its been a pretty productive couple of days, I left off having installed the chine logs on the port side. I now have the starboard side done the bow and transom pieces cut and their chine logs installed except for a goof up I'll reveal in a bit things have been going pretty good. Last night I left it like this…
> 
> ...


I have no place to put the boat once I have it.
Just bought a folding kayak, so I can store it in my basement room.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*A slow day but I am now officially working on hull 816!*

I didn't get much done today as I am feeling under the weather, have had for the last several days and just can't seem to shake it. Shorty from PDR sent me my hull number today. I have half of the entire Manitoba fleet in my shop LOL!
The other hull was registered in 2010 so it may not even be afloat any more.

I'm probably going to head into Winnipeg this weekend so I don't anticipate getting too much done. I still have to figure out a name.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *A slow day but I am now officially working on hull 816!*
> 
> I didn't get much done today as I am feeling under the weather, have had for the last several days and just can't seem to shake it. Shorty from PDR sent me my hull number today. I have half of the entire Manitoba fleet in my shop LOL!
> The other hull was registered in 2010 so it may not even be afloat any more.
> ...


what a relief--I HAVE A RESPITE…some time to get going! LOL…

I would not use sawdust…at least everything I have read is that it is not fine enough…you want wood flour (much finer)...there are other options too…but wood flour is easy to use and cheap…

Here is where I have bought stuff (shipped)...they are reasonable and you can CALL AND talk to a real person who will help…Duckworks…

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/index.htm


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *A slow day but I am now officially working on hull 816!*
> 
> I didn't get much done today as I am feeling under the weather, have had for the last several days and just can't seem to shake it. Shorty from PDR sent me my hull number today. I have half of the entire Manitoba fleet in my shop LOL!
> The other hull was registered in 2010 so it may not even be afloat any more.
> ...


How about naming it 'Jolly Lumberjock'?


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*Work!*

Looks like I won't be getting much done this weekend as I have to work through it.

Surprise!

Maybe next Friday I can get my epoxy :-(

Matt this may be a good time for you to draw both your boats in Sketchup or some other activity that will give me a chance to ketch up (get it ketch up… ketch is a kinda boat…I need sleep LOL)


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Work!*
> 
> Looks like I won't be getting much done this weekend as I have to work through it.
> 
> ...


You are sounding a little DINGHY…I wish that moving back into our house did not include so many chores (painting, resizing doors, refinishing desks…yard work)...

I am thinking of comparing the plans for the tiller and steeering to see if I can make some parts for both parts and use them in both boats…


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*No progress but I found out about hull #500*

The closest I've come to working on 816 is walking through the shop on the way to work. I did have a surprise the day after I registered my PDR in that the other Manitoban who has a PDR emailed me and introduced himself. Turns out we are only about an hour away from each other. Serendipitiously he was to do an interview that same day with a local radio station to try and stir up some interest in wooden boats. Apparently his hull (#500) is still serviceable and it sounds like he really enjoys the sport.

One thing I did realize is the goof about not putting in the chines at the bow and stern will make it easier to mount the bulkheads for the flotation boxes. So my goof actually saved me some effort.

I googled 'epoxy on wooden boats' and came up with alot of videos! This stitch and glue looks so good I almost want to start a second boat already. I was trolling West's web page and they have a rough formula for estimating the amount of epoxy you'll need, and I think Shorty (from the PDR website) much be much more efficient to use so little epoxy as he does. The West System site recommends far more. Lee Valley only sells epoxy in 1 litre containers, but I may have a local source for epoxy here in Brandon…but they weren't open today so I'll have to phone during the week.

Well next shift isn't too far away so I'd better say goodnight.










My boat patiently waiting.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *No progress but I found out about hull #500*
> 
> The closest I've come to working on 816 is walking through the shop on the way to work. I did have a surprise the day after I registered my PDR in that the other Manitoban who has a PDR emailed me and introduced himself. Turns out we are only about an hour away from each other. Serendipitiously he was to do an interview that same day with a local radio station to try and stir up some interest in wooden boats. Apparently his hull (#500) is still serviceable and it sounds like he really enjoys the sport.
> 
> ...


I dont understand why you are doing the air boxes seperately??? I did mine all at once…

See my blogs,

here first:

http://lumberjocks.com/matt1970/blog/26613

And then all together BEFORE the boat bottom on…

http://lumberjocks.com/matt1970/blog/26615

The most amount of epoxy is used to COAT the boat--but this is where you have to decide--MANY pdr people do NOT coat their PDR in epoxy or glass the boat bottom…they just paint…so their only use of epoxy MAY be for glue…and many dont even use epoxy for that…

The idea of the boat (unlike you and me) is slap it together and get on the water…cheap and easy--some glue and paint…

matt


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *No progress but I found out about hull #500*
> 
> The closest I've come to working on 816 is walking through the shop on the way to work. I did have a surprise the day after I registered my PDR in that the other Manitoban who has a PDR emailed me and introduced himself. Turns out we are only about an hour away from each other. Serendipitiously he was to do an interview that same day with a local radio station to try and stir up some interest in wooden boats. Apparently his hull (#500) is still serviceable and it sounds like he really enjoys the sport.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure why I am Matt. I think I kinda had a idea of where I was going and just sort of went for it. I can see where doing the flotation separately makes some sense. I wasn't 100% sure I was going to do longitudinal boxes and kept jumping back and forth in my thinking so my workflow is not as smooth as it could be

As far as the epoxying thing goes I want to experiment on this hull and learn what not to do ( like build the airboxes afterwards LOL!) so when I build the next boat I'll have a better idea of how to go about it. They are not 'mistakes' they are learning opportunities


----------



## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *No progress but I found out about hull #500*
> 
> The closest I've come to working on 816 is walking through the shop on the way to work. I did have a surprise the day after I registered my PDR in that the other Manitoban who has a PDR emailed me and introduced himself. Turns out we are only about an hour away from each other. Serendipitiously he was to do an interview that same day with a local radio station to try and stir up some interest in wooden boats. Apparently his hull (#500) is still serviceable and it sounds like he really enjoys the sport.
> 
> ...


Sorry if my tone sounded so serious in my last message…LOL…the boat is looking good…and the best part is this boat seems to have a lot of different way to do things…

Also--this boat as practice is really smart--( I think I mentioned this) this is why I am glassing my PDR bottom…so that I can get practice…like I said earlier-many people just paint the boat--and a few more do fiber glass tape (only) around the edges…so practice is good my friend…

I still have not touched my pdr.


----------



## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *No progress but I found out about hull #500*
> 
> The closest I've come to working on 816 is walking through the shop on the way to work. I did have a surprise the day after I registered my PDR in that the other Manitoban who has a PDR emailed me and introduced himself. Turns out we are only about an hour away from each other. Serendipitiously he was to do an interview that same day with a local radio station to try and stir up some interest in wooden boats. Apparently his hull (#500) is still serviceable and it sounds like he really enjoys the sport.
> 
> ...


A little teaser…

http://www.pdracer.com/boat-building/646-capsize-testing/


----------



## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*Ahhh the smell of fresh sawdust!*

Finally got into the shop last night for a short while. I needed more chine logs so I ripped the most dry 2 X 10 I had in the shop (recovered from another project) and was pleased with how much more straight grain I got from this piece. Bad part was the few knots were small and some popped out as I was sawing, and that is why it is important to have eye protection. I got hit several times in the glasses and one particularily ornery piece just below the hairline, man that stings  I also managed to add the remaining long chine log to the port airbox.

I also found an epoxy dealer with epoxy and cloth on hand and open on a Saturday (but still in Winnipeg)! Thats okay though as I sorta invited myself over to my sister's (who lives just north of Winnip0eg) Friday night for dinner LOL!

No pictures of last night's activity just a lot of new sawdust. I really really like my new table saw!


----------



## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Ahhh the smell of fresh sawdust!*
> 
> Finally got into the shop last night for a short while. I needed more chine logs so I ripped the most dry 2 X 10 I had in the shop (recovered from another project) and was pleased with how much more straight grain I got from this piece. Bad part was the few knots were small and some popped out as I was sawing, and that is why it is important to have eye protection. I got hit several times in the glasses and one particularily ornery piece just below the hairline, man that stings  I also managed to add the remaining long chine log to the port airbox.
> 
> ...


sounds like fun!


----------



## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*Got glue?*

Well I had a great pizza/birthday party with my family last night and a great visit with my Mom and youngest sister today. Candice, my sister, is a very accomplished Brazilian Jui Jitsu competitor and I had never seen her compete. Well I still haven't seen her compete yet but I did get to see a practice and it was very impressive. It was more impressive to note that neither her or the coach were breathing anywhere near as hard as the rest of the group. Amazing fitness. But this isn't a blog about my sister's athletic prowess but it is about the ongoing saga of finding epoxy.

I now have in my RAV4 enough epoxy to complete hull 816!!!! I got to East Cargo Marine about twenty minutes before they closed and managed to get what I needed; at least I think I did . I couldn't decide whether to get the 5 or 8 inch deck plates so I got one of each and I'll see which perform better. I went with the West System epoxy as that is what they had although there was some System Three stock there it only had a few items and no containers of epoxy or resin. The total bill was over three hundred dollars but I am pretty certain thus will do for more than one boat. I am on holidays now so I am going to go gangbusters on completing hull 816 and then get 'er wet and start learning to sail.

I'm just heading out from Winnipeg now, just stopped at the prerequisite Tim's stop before hitting the highway…its a Canadian thing LOL ! More progress photos to come!


----------



## Karson (May 9, 2006)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Got glue?*
> 
> Well I had a great pizza/birthday party with my family last night and a great visit with my Mom and youngest sister today. Candice, my sister, is a very accomplished Brazilian Jui Jitsu competitor and I had never seen her compete. Well I still haven't seen her compete yet but I did get to see a practice and it was very impressive. It was more impressive to note that neither her or the coach were breathing anywhere near as hard as the rest of the group. Amazing fitness. But this isn't a blog about my sister's athletic prowess but it is about the ongoing saga of finding epoxy.
> 
> ...


I haven'r had any of Tim's coffee in many a year.

The only one near us is in the Air Force Base. They must have had some Canucks stationed there.


----------



## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Got glue?*
> 
> Well I had a great pizza/birthday party with my family last night and a great visit with my Mom and youngest sister today. Candice, my sister, is a very accomplished Brazilian Jui Jitsu competitor and I had never seen her compete. Well I still haven't seen her compete yet but I did get to see a practice and it was very impressive. It was more impressive to note that neither her or the coach were breathing anywhere near as hard as the rest of the group. Amazing fitness. But this isn't a blog about my sister's athletic prowess but it is about the ongoing saga of finding epoxy.
> 
> ...


Well Karson if you ever find yourself in my neck of the woods we'll go for a good ol' Tim's run


----------



## Karson (May 9, 2006)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Got glue?*
> 
> Well I had a great pizza/birthday party with my family last night and a great visit with my Mom and youngest sister today. Candice, my sister, is a very accomplished Brazilian Jui Jitsu competitor and I had never seen her compete. Well I still haven't seen her compete yet but I did get to see a practice and it was very impressive. It was more impressive to note that neither her or the coach were breathing anywhere near as hard as the rest of the group. Amazing fitness. But this isn't a blog about my sister's athletic prowess but it is about the ongoing saga of finding epoxy.
> 
> ...


My son-in-law has family in Winnipeg. That was where he was born and the rest of his family is in Toronto area. So I'll have him look you up when he goes up to visit.

I'd like to get out to Ribstone or Calgary some day. Ribstone is where my parents met and had a farm in the 1930's before they moved to Ontario also.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*The 'stitch' part of stitch and glue*

Well I have bought the epoxy and have no more excuses Yesterday was a bit of s slow day but I decided to fix the joints at the bow and stern with a trial of stitch and glue.










This the bow after it has been stitched up. I was surprised at the draw strength of the wire stitches to close gaps!

I have done a bit of an experimental change on the plans by adding a slight curve port to starboard along the bottom of the transom to lend a bit of curve to the bottom. My thinking is that it may reduce a bit the friction of the dead square transom called for in the plans. 









Its not much of a curve but we'll see what will happen.

Not much epoxy action will happen today as I understand rainy days are not the best to epoxy on. I need to work on the rudder mechanism and mount so I'll probably work on that today. I had to laugh at myself last night, I know writers can suffer from 'white page' syndrome and woodworkers from 'first cut' syndrome where all the supplies'
, outlines or plans are in place but taking that first step to getting the project going is intimidating and sometimes hard to overcome. Well I had 'epoxy syndrome' last night. I was all set to go had good environmental conditions clean surfaces and time…but I choked and figured I needed to do more reading before I cracked the seals on the resin or hardener. Maybe this afternoon if this rain moves along.


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## GrandpaLen (Mar 6, 2012)

FatherHooligan said:


> *The 'stitch' part of stitch and glue*
> 
> Well I have bought the epoxy and have no more excuses Yesterday was a bit of s slow day but I decided to fix the joints at the bow and stern with a trial of stitch and glue.
> 
> ...


JUMP IN WITH BOTH FEET!

...you've nothing to fear, but fear itself. 
There is a learning curve, but isn't that why you are building this boat (first) in the first place?

Best Regards. Grandpa Len.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *The 'stitch' part of stitch and glue*
> 
> Well I have bought the epoxy and have no more excuses Yesterday was a bit of s slow day but I decided to fix the joints at the bow and stern with a trial of stitch and glue.
> 
> ...


You are exactly right Grandpa Len. The sun has come out here so maybe this afternoon I can start sticking things together!


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *The 'stitch' part of stitch and glue*
> 
> Well I have bought the epoxy and have no more excuses Yesterday was a bit of s slow day but I decided to fix the joints at the bow and stern with a trial of stitch and glue.
> 
> ...


Go for it Mark and don't worry about rain (unless you are out in it). I built all my boats on the West coast and if you waited for the rain to stop here you'd never get done. They don't call it the wet coast for nothing.

Remember the first two rules of epoxy:
1) Don't get any on you.
2) Don't get any on your handles. Read this.


----------



## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

FatherHooligan said:


> *The 'stitch' part of stitch and glue*
> 
> Well I have bought the epoxy and have no more excuses Yesterday was a bit of s slow day but I decided to fix the joints at the bow and stern with a trial of stitch and glue.
> 
> ...


In addition to Paul's advice, I would add; clean up your over run before it gets hard. Sanding epoxy/fiberglass resin is time consuming and produces NASTY dust. I kept a variety of sticks at hand when 'glassing' and learned very quickly to work smarter. Really; sanding that stuff in a PITA. 
Oh and if you do get some on you, dont wipe it off on your pants, unless you want a dedicated pair of epoxy pants. The result is like having little razor blades on your britches. 
Once you start it becomes intuitive, you will get the hang pretty quickly, it just takes a while to become proficient.
Good luck.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *The 'stitch' part of stitch and glue*
> 
> Well I have bought the epoxy and have no more excuses Yesterday was a bit of s slow day but I decided to fix the joints at the bow and stern with a trial of stitch and glue.
> 
> ...


Thanks Paul, I was hoping you would offer the advice you did. I will jump in. Your blogs have been super helpful. When I stopped last night I actually sought out your 'puke mouse' blog for the stir stick idea. I will be using the pukemouse idea for the outside joints and of course for the interior fillets.

jumbojack thank your for the sanding advice. It reminds me of my days in ready mix concrete finishing, you very quickly learn to smooth the bumps and hollows while its wet cause fixing those when its hard is very difficult and time consuming LOL!


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*You would think "Don't get any on you" would be an easy bit of advice to follow...*

Well I got out to the shop and dived in with both feet This is the supplies I bought last Saturday plus my version of the shipwright recommended stirring and application tool. This tool worked extremely well. I've not done any filletting yet so I haven't put it through all its paces yet.










Being mindful of the sponge like nature the ends of the plywood I am ensuring I spend a bit of time giving the edges a pretty thorough coat of epoxy. I even wedged in a few splinters in one edge void to fill the space and the dribbled a bit if epoxy in there for good measure. Below is an image of the inside starboard side. I dabbled a bit with the stitching of the plywood in the bow and stern and will definitely do so again. You can see here the chine logs after they were coated with epoxy.










I tried putting on the fibreglass cloth on the port side outside lower edge but think I don't quite have that technique quite right yet. I am going to layout the two internal airbox sides and epoxy them well before I install them. Once they are in I can tape and fillet the interior angles and coat the whole inside.



















EDIT

Got sidetracked for a bit and I hit post instead of just leaving the post in draft form. Any way..The title comes from my almost immediately after starting getting resin on my knuckles just trying to open the cans

This is an after shot of my supply table after I stopped for a break.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *You would think "Don't get any on you" would be an easy bit of advice to follow...*
> 
> Well I got out to the shop and dived in with both feet This is the supplies I bought last Saturday plus my version of the shipwright recommended stirring and application tool. This tool worked extremely well. I've not done any filletting yet so I haven't put it through all its paces yet.
> 
> ...


What were you able to get for thickener?
Epoxy, if mixed with a good thickener (like mini fibres) will fill any gaps better than splinters and be stronger into the bargain.
Looks like a great start.


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## GROOVY56 (Feb 22, 2013)

FatherHooligan said:


> *You would think "Don't get any on you" would be an easy bit of advice to follow...*
> 
> Well I got out to the shop and dived in with both feet This is the supplies I bought last Saturday plus my version of the shipwright recommended stirring and application tool. This tool worked extremely well. I've not done any filletting yet so I haven't put it through all its paces yet.
> 
> ...


brake fluid will wash the epoxy off your hands. they have a plastic roller for the tape. epoxy is hard to sand so be neat with it. and you can not add some more epoxy to already mixed epoxy when it looks like you need a few more pumps to finish that seam and you don't want to waste another mixing cup. these things I Know


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *You would think "Don't get any on you" would be an easy bit of advice to follow...*
> 
> Well I got out to the shop and dived in with both feet This is the supplies I bought last Saturday plus my version of the shipwright recommended stirring and application tool. This tool worked extremely well. I've not done any filletting yet so I haven't put it through all its paces yet.
> 
> ...


So cool.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *You would think "Don't get any on you" would be an easy bit of advice to follow...*
> 
> Well I got out to the shop and dived in with both feet This is the supplies I bought last Saturday plus my version of the shipwright recommended stirring and application tool. This tool worked extremely well. I've not done any filletting yet so I haven't put it through all its paces yet.
> 
> ...


YOU are AHEAD of me if you are laying tape on the edges! CONGRATS…looking good!


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*Epoxy as a pesticide?*

Today was a pretty productive day. I spent about 4 hours epoxying the joints and sides. The puke mouse Paul (shipwright) describes in his blog worked exactly as advertised. My technique requires some refinement but it sure did a tidy and quick job of laying down a fillet. I watched Sam Devlin's primer on stitch and glue and he shows the filletting going between the stitches. I now see why. I broke 2 or 3 getting the stitches out. I will have to try the suggested heating of the wire and then drawing it out.

I measured out where the bulkheads should sit and discovered that even though I'd faired all 4 identical pieces at the same time the two bulkhead pieces did not sit properly inside the hull. I am marking the differences and planing the pieces to fit. My LV block plane has been my go to tool for this project. I spent about an hour doing that yesterday evening. So all told I spent the better part of six hours on hull 816 today.

While I'm doing all this other stuff what I'm going to make the rudder 'hinge' out if. I have sone blocks of that high density plastic that may make a good non rusting self lubricating hinge. I've got to figure out what I am going to use for the shaft part of the hinge.

At first the epoxy was intimidating but the more I lay down the more possibilities keep cropping up. There are a couple of projects that have popped into my head because of the ease of use and versatility of the epoxy. One thing that was sure apparent is how sensitive the epoxy is to temperature. The 206 hardener I purchased is the second slowest hardener West has and as it was probably 5° to 7°C warmer than the first day and the epoxy started to set up noticebly faster. It also went from tacky to semi hard a whole lot faster

The shot below is where I left it at the end of the day. You can see the inner bulkheads in their approximate positions. The starboard one is close to fitting properly, the port one has not been touched at all.










One thing epoxy is not well suited to is killing wasps. I am working away in my shop when this black wasp flies by, settles oh so briefly on the epoxy, realizes its a dangerous environment and immediately tries to take off and flips wings down in the fresh glue. He manages to get back up right but by thus point I figure if he actually gets free he's gonna be made so I whacked him with nearest thing handy…my epoxy laden brush…thoroughly coating the poor creature in glue, I then flipped him to the ground and put him out of his misery. The other thing I learned about epoxy and insects is….DO NOT slap mosquitoes in you hair with epoxy covered gloves! I hadn't even realized I had done that until I got back in the house. Fortunately I have short hair and as it had hardened a bit I managed to get the clump out of my hair Lesson learned!


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Epoxy as a pesticide?*
> 
> Today was a pretty productive day. I spent about 4 hours epoxying the joints and sides. The puke mouse Paul (shipwright) describes in his blog worked exactly as advertised. My technique requires some refinement but it sure did a tidy and quick job of laying down a fillet. I watched Sam Devlin's primer on stitch and glue and he shows the filletting going between the stitches. I now see why. I broke 2 or 3 getting the stitches out. I will have to try the suggested heating of the wire and then drawing it out.
> 
> ...


If you use black tie wire you can actually kink the inside bit into the angle of the corner and epoxy right over it. You can heat the wire and remove it but if you are epoxying over it, just sand it off and leave the little piece that's left. It won't rust on you.

The wasp story is fun. I built a stitch and glue boat once in peak horsefly season and can testify that they work quite well as a filler in larger epoxy fillets.


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## littlecope (Oct 23, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Epoxy as a pesticide?*
> 
> Today was a pretty productive day. I spent about 4 hours epoxying the joints and sides. The puke mouse Paul (shipwright) describes in his blog worked exactly as advertised. My technique requires some refinement but it sure did a tidy and quick job of laying down a fillet. I watched Sam Devlin's primer on stitch and glue and he shows the filletting going between the stitches. I now see why. I broke 2 or 3 getting the stitches out. I will have to try the suggested heating of the wire and then drawing it out.
> 
> ...


This is a really Good follow-along build Mark, I've been enjoying your progress…
Great Job both, on the build and the Blog! Thanks for taking us along on the Journey!


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Epoxy as a pesticide?*
> 
> Today was a pretty productive day. I spent about 4 hours epoxying the joints and sides. The puke mouse Paul (shipwright) describes in his blog worked exactly as advertised. My technique requires some refinement but it sure did a tidy and quick job of laying down a fillet. I watched Sam Devlin's primer on stitch and glue and he shows the filletting going between the stitches. I now see why. I broke 2 or 3 getting the stitches out. I will have to try the suggested heating of the wire and then drawing it out.
> 
> ...


I managed to break off all but two of the remaining stitches, so I'll follow your advice Paul and just make sure the ends aren't proud of the wood and just seal them in. I think I saw the West 40n large annoying insect filler, I knew I shoulda added it to my cart LOL!

Thanks Mike, I am enjoying the build and I hope the blog is readable. Didn't make too much progress today, spent a bit of time sanding…I am planning on tomorrow being a better day.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Epoxy as a pesticide?*
> 
> Today was a pretty productive day. I spent about 4 hours epoxying the joints and sides. The puke mouse Paul (shipwright) describes in his blog worked exactly as advertised. My technique requires some refinement but it sure did a tidy and quick job of laying down a fillet. I watched Sam Devlin's primer on stitch and glue and he shows the filletting going between the stitches. I now see why. I broke 2 or 3 getting the stitches out. I will have to try the suggested heating of the wire and then drawing it out.
> 
> ...


Very fun and instructional blog Mark. The build is going well and you are learning a lot at the same time. A great skill building project.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*Don't run with scissors!*

Lesson number one today:










Scissors on the right-happy healthy normal pair of scissors

Scissors on the right (EDIT: oops this should read 'on the left')-when you forget to wipe the epoxy off when you open your puke mouse or trim wet excess cloth…not at all happy pair of scissors. I bust out laughing at this new lesson when I picked them up and try to cut my tape to length

I've been making pretty good progress today. Its only noon and I've got about three hours in already. Next boat I build l'm going to make some kind of platform so…hang on gotta put my cherry pie lunch in the oven, be right back…. okay I'm back…I don't have to stoop over so much. I cut most of my fabric to length as I thought it would go faster then cutting each strip as I glued them in….yeah I was doing that duuuhhhho I just tacked the two bulkheads in with temporary nails, I didn't take a picture if that but I'm pretty sure we can all imagine what a nail in a board looks like LOL! The port bulkhead has chine logs on the bottom and the starboard is just using the fibre glass tape and epoxy to hold it in. I've been debating whether or not to put bracing between the bulkhead and the side. I'm leaning to not adding any more weight considering I've used 3/8 plywood and the longest span is only 18 inches. Any stress from sitting on it while 'hiking out' .....does one ever need to lean that far out in a PDR?,...is along the plane of the plywood probably its strongest orientation. I think I've just convinced myself to not add any more reinforcing.










I do have a bit of a bow in the plywood, I've clamped it square in the photo above, but during the dry fit everything lined up nicely so I'm good to go.

A second lesson I learned (after getting the idea from PDR Shorty) is to immerse the tape in epoxy to thoroughly wet it out and then squeegee off the excess with your fingers and apply the resultant strip. It goes enormously faster and I think will do a better job because you aren't wasting as much time wetting out the tape and it is a more thorough job. I found that the brush I am using just nicely forms the wetted tape along the fillet without distorting the fillet. It leaves a nice fair curve at the joins. It looks pretty good if I do say so myself Having more than one person or using shorter strips on the long runs would go a little more smoothly.










I made a minor goof in taping the seams of the boat, keeping in mind one of my big considerations in epoxying and taping all the joints is to ensure that the airtanks are airtight, where I filletted the starboard bulkhead and taped it. I then went back to surface coat the floor of the starboard bulkhead and if there was epoxy left to coat the central floor before I filletted the port, and chined, bulkhead. Well I kinda got the bit in my teeth to lay down more tape as I was mixing up the batch (I'd just figured out the pre-wetting approach) and proceeded to immerse the long tape for the port side. Just micro seconds after I'd immersed the first bit of tape I'd realized I'd not filletted the joint. I briefly toyed with the idea if chucking that piece of tape and filleting the joint but then I thought this joint is already chined, I am not going to lose strength by just taping this corner. So I just taped the corner. Lets see if it stands the rigours of my lacustrine adventures

I had thought about adding a larboard (I think that means a 'keel' like structure that is mounted on the side of the boat instead of a 'dagger board' which is mounted inboard) which may require additional bracing for mounting it. I am enjoying using the epoxy so much and finding it far easier than I thought it would be that I am going to install the dagger board with the additional construction that that means.










Well gotta get back out there.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Don't run with scissors!*
> 
> Lesson number one today:
> 
> ...


Keep up the good work and the good blog Mark.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Don't run with scissors!*
> 
> Lesson number one today:
> 
> ...


Hi Mark.
Remember rule #2 ? Don't get any on your handles means tools in general. 
No, you don't need to add stiffeners in the buoyancy tanks.
PDR Shorty and I disagree substantially on the topic if getting it on you. Your choice of course but even with gloves on, I do all in my power to keep it off me. Once it's on your gloves, it's going to be on everything you touch.
It also seems to me that his method would be a bit wasteful of epoxy. Personally I'd use the plastic strip method in my blog. .... Almost as fast, just as easy and way, way less messy and sticky.
On the bit you forgot to fillet, just fillet on top of the cloth. The big reason for filleting under the cloth is to give a radius for the cloth. It doesn't like bending into square corners. A fillet over top should fill the resulting air spaces.
The word you're looking for is leeboard. Larboard is an olde name for port (side). Good try though….

Sorry about the tough love, just trying to help. You are doing great though and really don't need help.


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Don't run with scissors!*
> 
> Lesson number one today:
> 
> ...


I told you; a minute to learn a lifetime to master. Your work looks good. You seem to be enjoying the process. During the last drought here in Cali, I repaired hulls that had gotten too close to the 'new' rocks. Made tons of dough, but I burned my self out glassing.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Don't run with scissors!*
> 
> Lesson number one today:
> 
> ...


I had been diligent not getting epoxy on anything but where it was supposed to go, totally forgot about the scissors. We have it drilled in to us at work about PPE (personal protective equipment) so I know the drill and sure should be used to the importance of "not getting it on you". I just went back and re-read your blog Paul. Thank you for posting originally and thank you again for reminding me of it. Your way is much much tidier and looks almost as fast. I was getting frustrated with how long it was taking to wet out the cloth in situe so the immersion technique was a bit of impatience on my part. Your right it is tremendously messy and potentially very wasteful. I was pulling the cloth out inside the bouyancy tanks so I just spread out whatever dripped off. Your method has the superior handling and control of the plastic strip, Shorty's method left one with a soggy tangling strip that was fraying at the edges.

I am getting over the sense of urgency that epoxying had me in. In my working world seconds count, and while the time here is important it isn't quite that urgent. So I am learning to be a bit more deliberate. The tip about the rounding is well taken, I will add the fillet on top to dress up the joint.

I've been reading so much about boat building and sailing and am awash in new terminology, I'll get it all sorted eventually. When I first read about pintles and gudgeons I thought they were talking about an Irish pub, but now I understand what they are referring to

No worries about the tough love, I really appreciate your explaining this stuff to me. Having done a little gluing now your blogs are becoming even more important references for me!

Hey jumbojack, my minutes to learn seem to be hours so I'd hate to think how long it will take me to master this stuff So far I've had pretty good cross winds through the shop so the fumes have not been noticeable, except after I came back for lunch as I'd closed the doors so the fumes sort of pooled in the shop. Yeah I'm having some fun here, can't wait to get on the water!


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*A blizzard of fuzzy white seeds!*

So I am having a pretty lazy morning and while I got up early thus morning I kinda just puttered the morning away (looking at potential boat plans can consume a lot of time . I finally got out to the shop, the coffee pot was empty anyway, and decided to fillet the lower starboard joint and then while hull 816 was on its side I coated the interior of both bouyancy tanks and anything else that was horizontal in this orientation. On Paul's (shipwright) suggestion I wetted out the fabric on the flat and then pouring epoxy on top as he explains in his tips on epoxy blog. Not only is this method way way tidier it is also faster which surprised me. I was immersing my tape in a too small container, which was great for mixing but awkward for soaking. Laying it flat on a piece of poly was tidy, quick and used far less epoxy.

While I was puttering I was reading a bit about where I should put the mast step. PDR Shorty recommends 12 inches back from the bow, but he has a hull that is 16 to my 18 inches deep. I think I will mount the step 12 inches back from the joint of the bow and the hull. I hope this isn't too close to the rudder that I lose some effectiveness of the rudder. I have a good handle on how I'm making my gudgeons (thanks Paul) but I haven't settled on a style of rudder yet. I keep wanting to over design then I stop myself and remind myself that the more complicated I make it the less sailing time I'm going to have.










Oh yeah I was talking about finishing up coating the bouyancy tanks, all morning it had been pretty calm which is unusual for Brandon and I'm just about done coating the starboard outside inside the starboard tank, the in board side of the port tank and the interior of the port tank which as you can see in the above photo is right at ground level. Now keep in mind that all the surfaces are pretty tacky with epoxy, I have my head and entire attention focussed deep in the port tank when I feel a breeze start…oh nice I thought this will blow some of the fumes out. The fumes indeed were lessening but after I finish and start to sit up I realize the breeze is carrying a virtual blizzard of fine white puffy seeds! All across my very tacky glue! I am so glad this is not a refined boat where I'd spent a lot of effort to make it look good as I now something that looks like a cross between a polar bear and a packing crate  !


----------



## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *A blizzard of fuzzy white seeds!*
> 
> So I am having a pretty lazy morning and while I got up early thus morning I kinda just puttered the morning away (looking at potential boat plans can consume a lot of time . I finally got out to the shop, the coffee pot was empty anyway, and decided to fillet the lower starboard joint and then while hull 816 was on its side I coated the interior of both bouyancy tanks and anything else that was horizontal in this orientation. On Paul's (shipwright) suggestion I wetted out the fabric on the flat and then pouring epoxy on top as he explains in his tips on epoxy blog. Not only is this method way way tidier it is also faster which surprised me. I was immersing my tape in a too small container, which was great for mixing but awkward for soaking. Laying it flat on a piece of poly was tidy, quick and used far less epoxy.
> 
> ...


Mark (and Paul, lol):

Are you only putting tape on the corners or will you also put a sheet of fiber glass on the bottom as well?

I did not think of taping the corners on the inside of the boat…I figured with epoxy filet in the corners and clear epoxy spread in the bottom and inside air boxes I would be okay…what do you think?

Progress looks good…and your lazy??? LOL!


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *A blizzard of fuzzy white seeds!*
> 
> So I am having a pretty lazy morning and while I got up early thus morning I kinda just puttered the morning away (looking at potential boat plans can consume a lot of time . I finally got out to the shop, the coffee pot was empty anyway, and decided to fillet the lower starboard joint and then while hull 816 was on its side I coated the interior of both bouyancy tanks and anything else that was horizontal in this orientation. On Paul's (shipwright) suggestion I wetted out the fabric on the flat and then pouring epoxy on top as he explains in his tips on epoxy blog. Not only is this method way way tidier it is also faster which surprised me. I was immersing my tape in a too small container, which was great for mixing but awkward for soaking. Laying it flat on a piece of poly was tidy, quick and used far less epoxy.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure Matt. What I was going to do to test the water tightness was to pour some water into the bouyancy tanks and see if any escaped. I won'y be able to tell for certain for the top joints are okay but I figure if the first joints I made are tight than these last ones should be alright. Strength wise you are probably okay but I think I'd still fillet and tape them.

I'd thought about fibre glassing the whole bottom, and that would probably ensure a long lifespan for hull 816, but then I traded off durability for cost. I don't intend this to be my last boat…I still want to build a real dinghy like the Whitehall. PDR Shorty even used a bed sheet in one of his boats as re-inforcing cloth…it probably would have been cheaper in epoxy to use glass cloth than the a super absorbant bed sheet. Mind you the more fun I have building this scow the more I think I'd like to build something even bigger than the Whitehall. ...far too much time on the Glen-L and CLC websites…LOL!


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *A blizzard of fuzzy white seeds!*
> 
> So I am having a pretty lazy morning and while I got up early thus morning I kinda just puttered the morning away (looking at potential boat plans can consume a lot of time . I finally got out to the shop, the coffee pot was empty anyway, and decided to fillet the lower starboard joint and then while hull 816 was on its side I coated the interior of both bouyancy tanks and anything else that was horizontal in this orientation. On Paul's (shipwright) suggestion I wetted out the fabric on the flat and then pouring epoxy on top as he explains in his tips on epoxy blog. Not only is this method way way tidier it is also faster which surprised me. I was immersing my tape in a too small container, which was great for mixing but awkward for soaking. Laying it flat on a piece of poly was tidy, quick and used far less epoxy.
> 
> ...


A bed sheet? Does this guy have any credentials at all to be dispensing advice?
I don't think you should be putting a lot of weight on his advice.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *A blizzard of fuzzy white seeds!*
> 
> So I am having a pretty lazy morning and while I got up early thus morning I kinda just puttered the morning away (looking at potential boat plans can consume a lot of time . I finally got out to the shop, the coffee pot was empty anyway, and decided to fillet the lower starboard joint and then while hull 816 was on its side I coated the interior of both bouyancy tanks and anything else that was horizontal in this orientation. On Paul's (shipwright) suggestion I wetted out the fabric on the flat and then pouring epoxy on top as he explains in his tips on epoxy blog. Not only is this method way way tidier it is also faster which surprised me. I was immersing my tape in a too small container, which was great for mixing but awkward for soaking. Laying it flat on a piece of poly was tidy, quick and used far less epoxy.
> 
> ...


LOL…Paul you should spend some time on the PDR site…you would either laugh or boil over…

I like it because it gets guys to try new things and puts people on the water quick and cheap (not counting me lol)...


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *A blizzard of fuzzy white seeds!*
> 
> So I am having a pretty lazy morning and while I got up early thus morning I kinda just puttered the morning away (looking at potential boat plans can consume a lot of time . I finally got out to the shop, the coffee pot was empty anyway, and decided to fillet the lower starboard joint and then while hull 816 was on its side I coated the interior of both bouyancy tanks and anything else that was horizontal in this orientation. On Paul's (shipwright) suggestion I wetted out the fabric on the flat and then pouring epoxy on top as he explains in his tips on epoxy blog. Not only is this method way way tidier it is also faster which surprised me. I was immersing my tape in a too small container, which was great for mixing but awkward for soaking. Laying it flat on a piece of poly was tidy, quick and used far less epoxy.
> 
> ...


He does have a unique perspective on things. I just hope his design actually floats!


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*Bouyancy tanks are closed in.*










Well this is the last view inside the tanks as they are now sealed. I will flip it over tomorrow and epoxy the hull, bow and transom and then its ready to float. It is a bit heavier than I thought so I am going to have to rig up some kind of ramp to get it on my roof rack. I may yet be forced into buying a small trailer.










This is how I left hull 816 this evening. After the hull is coated I will tape and seal the tops of the tanks but I am just about out of epoxy so I want to get the high wear areas coated before I run out. I may make a run into Winnipeg and buy another litre if I need it.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Bouyancy tanks are closed in.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks excellent Mark. I'm proud of you.


----------



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Bouyancy tanks are closed in.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good work Mark.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Bouyancy tanks are closed in.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you Paul. I am pretty pleased with myself also Hull 816 went together much faster (and probably better because of your advice!

Thanks Mike, now I just have to add a rudder and a sail step and then I'm ready to rig hull 816.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Bouyancy tanks are closed in.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


amazing and congratulations! You have now done more in 2 weeks then I have done in 2 years! ANd she looks good too…really cool!

I have been afraid to close in my air boxes until I finalize my leeboard set up…

Will you have a bow? or piece across the bow?


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Bouyancy tanks are closed in.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey Matt, I am building a 'sail locker' right in the bow to support the mast and provide a bit of out of the sun storage for beverages and such. I am thinking of placing the step about 12" aft of the join line of the hull to the bow. Its a guess as to where to place it. I want to have as much moment arm from the rudder as possible and still have room between the step and the dagger board.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Bouyancy tanks are closed in.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i think where you place mast, lee board etc. depends on rig??? there are some good points on pdr site…


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Bouyancy tanks are closed in.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are right about Shorty's recommendations for the location of those elements. That is why I am using the 12" back as a starting place. I am going to experiment with just screwing my sail locker bracing and step in place to see how they perform and still be able to change things up if it doesn't work well. I am hopeful that with sufficient bracing the mast won't rip free. That's the advantage of going with a lee board as you can more readily move it around. Hmmm, I think I just convinced myself to go with a leeboard to start. It will also be easier to mount and change a leeboard then a dagger board. I will use Shorty's formula for placing the lee board.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*Details, details....*

As I closed in the bouyancy tanks I wasn't really happy with the fit of the lid. I'd allowed a little wiggle room in the width of the top to line everything up nicely (I'm learning not to just rely on measuring so I'd expected some over lap. The funny part is when I got things nailed down the overlap wasn't all on one side. One the starboard side I'd nailed the inboard bulkhead first for the whole length and then pushed and pulled to fit the top to the outside edge…a better way than, as I did on the port side, nailing both edges at the center and working out toward the ends. I didn't take a before picture but I did take some after I'd run the router with a trim bit.










Not sure why this picture is rotated, I'll have to figure out why and fix it.

I had been using hand tools as much as practical but I pulled out the Dremel, ROS and the router for this job. Although I still used the plane for some initial clean up. I can't say enough good things about my LV bevel up block plane. The heft is just right it cuts like nobodies business and the blade has taken enormous abuse on this project and it stands up to the odd knot or layer of epoxy and stays sharp. Once it does get dull it sharpens easily and predictably. I like my block plane.

My initial plan had been to round off all the corners yet to be taped with my block plane (have I mentioned how much I like my block plane . I started doing this and realized I needed to clean up some of the over flow of epoxy that I had't quite got smooth enough while it was still wet. Mainly around the nails and some of those over-hanging areas. So I put a sanding drum on the dremel and made short work of any bumps.










This dremel is old, I think I was in my teens when I got it and it got a lot if hard service on many home renovation projects in the ensuing time. I may have to replace the brushes on it at some point  Since the dremel worked so well I thought 'hey why don't I use the router with a round over bit' to make these edges really uniform. The first two edges went well as there was no over hang. Where the over hang occurred the round over bit was not deep enough for the guide bearing to work so I used a trim but to remove all the over hang and then switched back to the round over bit. So I've spent a surprisingly large portion of the morning fiddling with details nobody will notice but it is done properly.










I left the router plate from my table on as I think it gives more control then the stock base but one thing about the plate is it's dead square sharp edges. They caught on any surface bump and either stopped the sliding along or caused a bump on the edge I was routing. Out came the ROS with a coarse grit and those little impediments were gone. I like the uniformity of the routed edge, not something I may have got with my hand plane.

Well no cherry pie for lunch today, I'll have to rustle up something else :-(


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Details, details....*
> 
> As I closed in the bouyancy tanks I wasn't really happy with the fit of the lid. I'd allowed a little wiggle room in the width of the top to line everything up nicely (I'm learning not to just rely on measuring so I'd expected some over lap. The funny part is when I got things nailed down the overlap wasn't all on one side. One the starboard side I'd nailed the inboard bulkhead first for the whole length and then pushed and pulled to fit the top to the outside edge…a better way than, as I did on the port side, nailing both edges at the center and working out toward the ends. I didn't take a before picture but I did take some after I'd run the router with a trim bit.
> 
> ...


looking good…


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Details, details....*
> 
> As I closed in the bouyancy tanks I wasn't really happy with the fit of the lid. I'd allowed a little wiggle room in the width of the top to line everything up nicely (I'm learning not to just rely on measuring so I'd expected some over lap. The funny part is when I got things nailed down the overlap wasn't all on one side. One the starboard side I'd nailed the inboard bulkhead first for the whole length and then pushed and pulled to fit the top to the outside edge…a better way than, as I did on the port side, nailing both edges at the center and working out toward the ends. I didn't take a before picture but I did take some after I'd run the router with a trim bit.
> 
> ...


Thanks Matt. The heat got to me today and I had to quit about 16:30. I've got to be on the far side of the province tomorrow so not much will get done the next couple of days. I don't know how folks handle the high temps, give me -20 any day.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Details, details....*
> 
> As I closed in the bouyancy tanks I wasn't really happy with the fit of the lid. I'd allowed a little wiggle room in the width of the top to line everything up nicely (I'm learning not to just rely on measuring so I'd expected some over lap. The funny part is when I got things nailed down the overlap wasn't all on one side. One the starboard side I'd nailed the inboard bulkhead first for the whole length and then pushed and pulled to fit the top to the outside edge…a better way than, as I did on the port side, nailing both edges at the center and working out toward the ends. I didn't take a before picture but I did take some after I'd run the router with a trim bit.
> 
> ...


It seems you are really getting the hang of this type of work Mark. Everything looks well done.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*Come in to the Gudgeon & Pintle Today...*

My apologies to the Irish Rovers for the weak reference to their song about the Pig & Whistle 

This isn't work I accomplished this week but on Saturday, the day before yesterday.










I am experimenting with different gudgeon designs and I have the notion I want to build it from wood. I initially had a really complicated multi-part gudgeon but as Paul (shipwright) has explained to me there is not a lot of force on these rudder components. I was quite pleased with my masking tape roll template. To ensure I got two gudgeons of the same size I marked where the tape roll crossed the edge of the board on the first circle and then lined up the roll for the second circle with the edge marks lining up with the new edge of the board.

A short entry today, its pretty late and yesterday was a looonnnng day 1000km+ of driving and then we stayed up 'til 0400 talking.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Come in to the Gudgeon & Pintle Today...*
> 
> My apologies to the Irish Rovers for the weak reference to their song about the Pig & Whistle
> 
> ...


I am really interested to see how this works out…good luck!

I am heading into my new classroom to hang posters! And my WIFE GOT a job…so we are heading into a good year after such a tough year…!


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*On to painting...*

It has been a hectic week here. Last weekend I drove over 1500 km round trip to attend my cousin's 40th wedding anniversary, then my mother came for a visit for a couple of days, Wednesday was family day Thursday was cold raining but I managed to do a bit on hull 816, Friday was mostly taken up with paperwork…a 24 page report on my holidays! Saturday I got back into the shop finished epoxying the tops of the bouyancy tanks and the bottom, the bow and stern. This is where I left off last night:










I have trimmed down my laminated mast blank and cut of the corners to make it more cylindrical. I may taper it as I plane off the corners, its been going pretty quick with my block plane.










The roughed out blank.










A little more cylindrical.

It has been very cool here we are normally into the upper 70s and mid to high 80s but I woke up the other morning and it was 54 in the house….made it real hard to get up out of my nice warm bed As the epoxy has a minimum application temperature of 16°C (60 ish °F) I turned on the shop heat to warm it up a little. I was also concerned that the epoxy metering pumps would not measure correctly if the resin and hardener were too cool.

I mixed the first batch with the new container of thickener I bought early last week (drove by Lee Valley during my 1500 km journey). I'd also purchased more resin and hardener as I didn't want to run out. It was a nice peanut butter consistancy as I was mixing it but when I got it into the pukemouse is was a little more confined so it started to heat a bit a so was just a tad more runny that I would have liked. To prevent any runs I hoisted up the side 
I was working on so the joint was more horizontal. The need for this angle is why the top picture has the boat perched on my scrap crate.

Earlier in the morning I had sealed the bouyancy tanks and once those had hardened, I flipped the boat for access to the bottom. While I was waiting for the tops of the tanks to dry I figured I would work on the mast. So I shuffled the tablesaw over to the door and no sooner than when I got the saw set just right the skies opened up. It poured for over an hour so things were at a bit of a standstill. Once the rain stopped it actually warmed up a fair bit so I was able to open the garage door to be able to have enough room to trim my blank on the TS. I didn't take pictures but in the last mast shot you can see the General roller stand underneath the mast. I bought two when I bought my saw and they have been enormously helpful. I am able to safely cut sheet goods as I put one roller stand on the infeed side one on the out and the material are supported the whole way through. This is why I actually cut the mast on my table saw as the bandsaw with the roller cart underneath is too high for the rollers to be able to support outgoing stock.

I have been figuring out the bracing for the mast and the step. I've decided to make a bit of a box up in the bow to store stuff but mainly be the reinforcing for the mast step.










This a pictute of the setup I used to measure back 12 inches from the joint of the hull and bow. This is an arbitrary distance. I am hopeful that after I have had 816 on the water I will be able to tell if the mast is too far aft or too far forward. This is the one part of the build that has me concerned as I do not want to epoxy the bulkheads and bracing for the mast until I know its in the right spot, so right now I am making bracing blocks and screwing everything in place. My concern is that the moment arm on a full sail will rip the screwed in mast step right out of the hull. But as long as I don't get clobbered by falling gear I guess I'd just have to paddle the remnant back to shore and start again.

Well I am heading of to a garage sale that boasts lots of tools and even a lathe so painting will have to wait until I am back. I am thinking I will need to lightly sand the epoxy to give the latex paint a bit of a bit.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *On to painting...*
> 
> It has been a hectic week here. Last weekend I drove over 1500 km round trip to attend my cousin's 40th wedding anniversary, then my mother came for a visit for a couple of days, Wednesday was family day Thursday was cold raining but I managed to do a bit on hull 816, Friday was mostly taken up with paperwork…a 24 page report on my holidays! Saturday I got back into the shop finished epoxying the tops of the bouyancy tanks and the bottom, the bow and stern. This is where I left off last night:
> 
> ...


Looking awesome! FLOATING soon!


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *On to painting...*
> 
> It has been a hectic week here. Last weekend I drove over 1500 km round trip to attend my cousin's 40th wedding anniversary, then my mother came for a visit for a couple of days, Wednesday was family day Thursday was cold raining but I managed to do a bit on hull 816, Friday was mostly taken up with paperwork…a 24 page report on my holidays! Saturday I got back into the shop finished epoxying the tops of the bouyancy tanks and the bottom, the bow and stern. This is where I left off last night:
> 
> ...


Don't over think the mast support Mark. The forces generated on this little rig will be fairly minimal and the thing people never take into account is that a lot of that force is dissipated by the boat moving away from the force, ie: heeling or (God forbid) sailing. We tend to think of the force that would be generated if the boat were nailed down to terra firma.
I also don't think that (please excuse me) given the complete lack of hull design in this vessel, the mast position moving an inch or so one way or the other will make one iota of difference. Of course I could be wrong about that but mast position and rake etc are nuances of design and this boat is not about nuance if you know what I mean. 
No offence intended.
Get 'er done, get out sailing and start assembling your thoughts about what improvements you would like to have in your next boat. 
Looking great so far.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *On to painting...*
> 
> It has been a hectic week here. Last weekend I drove over 1500 km round trip to attend my cousin's 40th wedding anniversary, then my mother came for a visit for a couple of days, Wednesday was family day Thursday was cold raining but I managed to do a bit on hull 816, Friday was mostly taken up with paperwork…a 24 page report on my holidays! Saturday I got back into the shop finished epoxying the tops of the bouyancy tanks and the bottom, the bow and stern. This is where I left off last night:
> 
> ...


Hey Matt, I am hoping to get the mast, sail and rigging sorted out soon, maybe next weekend it'll get wet.

Paul I bust out laughing with you genteel description of my plywood floating box. "...the complete lack of hull design…". It is good to hear that I'm over analyzing the mast. I'll just go with my plan, put it all together and start on the rigging. I absolutely have been thinking what I'd want in a real boat. These PDRs are butt ugly but they are supposed to be dead stable and easy for kids to learn to sail on and they are dead cheap to build (not a lot of money was spent on design;-). Mind you with what I've learned about applying epoxy, with your invaluable assistance, makes some of the more boat like plans a LOT less intimidating! I'm torn between making up a design or purchasing one from somebody who knows what they are doing.

Well I am off to the shop….I may have a wee bit of a tool gloat as a result of my first ever garage sale 'purchase'.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *On to painting...*
> 
> It has been a hectic week here. Last weekend I drove over 1500 km round trip to attend my cousin's 40th wedding anniversary, then my mother came for a visit for a couple of days, Wednesday was family day Thursday was cold raining but I managed to do a bit on hull 816, Friday was mostly taken up with paperwork…a 24 page report on my holidays! Saturday I got back into the shop finished epoxying the tops of the bouyancy tanks and the bottom, the bow and stern. This is where I left off last night:
> 
> ...


I've been building boats for a lifetime and I would not try to design my own. There is a reason that yacht designers spend all that time in school and then apprentice with established design houses. This does not mean that you couldn't improve on the PDR on your own but why go to the trouble of building a "serious" boat designed by an amateur when ther are so many well designed and proven models out there. Besides if it really sucks, you'd have to blame yourself. It's much better to have someone else to blame.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *On to painting...*
> 
> It has been a hectic week here. Last weekend I drove over 1500 km round trip to attend my cousin's 40th wedding anniversary, then my mother came for a visit for a couple of days, Wednesday was family day Thursday was cold raining but I managed to do a bit on hull 816, Friday was mostly taken up with paperwork…a 24 page report on my holidays! Saturday I got back into the shop finished epoxying the tops of the bouyancy tanks and the bottom, the bow and stern. This is where I left off last night:
> 
> ...


What was that phrase back in the 80s…."plausible denial ability". You are right Paul, it would take me many many years of trial and error to get something that would work as well something an apprentice designer would shoot holes in. I want to build good boats not screw up lots of wood. Any variations on the PDR would still be putting lipstick on a pig so I don't think I should use that as a starting place


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *On to painting...*
> 
> It has been a hectic week here. Last weekend I drove over 1500 km round trip to attend my cousin's 40th wedding anniversary, then my mother came for a visit for a couple of days, Wednesday was family day Thursday was cold raining but I managed to do a bit on hull 816, Friday was mostly taken up with paperwork…a 24 page report on my holidays! Saturday I got back into the shop finished epoxying the tops of the bouyancy tanks and the bottom, the bow and stern. This is where I left off last night:
> 
> ...


I remember WAAAAAAY back when i was building my Weekender I brought this up in a blog (mast rake/PERFECTION/concerns) and some old guy (not paul!!!) said--"You could put a sail on a box and it would sail."

LOL…now we are building pdr's…so we are really building boxes…rmember--YOU CAN CHANGE anything since you built it--i dont think that is true on all designs…but I am finding a lot of flexibility in the sail plans and designs…


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *On to painting...*
> 
> It has been a hectic week here. Last weekend I drove over 1500 km round trip to attend my cousin's 40th wedding anniversary, then my mother came for a visit for a couple of days, Wednesday was family day Thursday was cold raining but I managed to do a bit on hull 816, Friday was mostly taken up with paperwork…a 24 page report on my holidays! Saturday I got back into the shop finished epoxying the tops of the bouyancy tanks and the bottom, the bow and stern. This is where I left off last night:
> 
> ...


Yeah the PDR is not a particularly finicky boat, I think I'm over complicating much of the build. My next boat would hopefully go more smoothly than this one. I'm learning a lot and hope to get 816 in the water soon.

If It floats and I get an understanding of how sailing feels like I'll consider it a success.

Have you had a chance to work on yours at all? I guess with the school year starting soon time is at a premium.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *On to painting...*
> 
> It has been a hectic week here. Last weekend I drove over 1500 km round trip to attend my cousin's 40th wedding anniversary, then my mother came for a visit for a couple of days, Wednesday was family day Thursday was cold raining but I managed to do a bit on hull 816, Friday was mostly taken up with paperwork…a 24 page report on my holidays! Saturday I got back into the shop finished epoxying the tops of the bouyancy tanks and the bottom, the bow and stern. This is where I left off last night:
> 
> ...


Officially started back at work today. Feels good to be working again after a year off…and back at the school I started with which is a really neat educational environment.

I have not worked on either boat. So many other projects around the house since we moved back last month…and now school starts…but…I will keep trying…

Will be posting some non-boat projects--because I really have been wood working…just not boat building…


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *On to painting...*
> 
> It has been a hectic week here. Last weekend I drove over 1500 km round trip to attend my cousin's 40th wedding anniversary, then my mother came for a visit for a couple of days, Wednesday was family day Thursday was cold raining but I managed to do a bit on hull 816, Friday was mostly taken up with paperwork…a 24 page report on my holidays! Saturday I got back into the shop finished epoxying the tops of the bouyancy tanks and the bottom, the bow and stern. This is where I left off last night:
> 
> ...


Good to hear that its your first day back. I can appreciate how good that must feel. Its funny how all the other jobs stack up. I've been working on a bathroom rennovation building maple cabinets for the vanity and am not real happy with the results. I really…really messed up the drawers and drawers faces…or should I say I had a lot of redesign opportunities on the drawers and fronts  Enjoy the new year! As long as we're making sawdust its a good thing it doesn't really matter which project we're working on.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*No brushes, so worked on the mast mount*

I couldn't find any brushes and I don't like shopping on Sunday so I thought instead of painting I'd just work on the mast mount. Now I'd initially had this really complicated mount in my head (a dark and scary place at the best of times but after a bit of advice, from shipwright, on how strong the step would need to be I simplified my plan.










So I squared up a piece of Douglas Fir I think I got from my Dad before evening leaving the College, so its a well travelled piece of fir.










I found the centre and initially thought about drilling a hole big enough to slide the mast in. Except I don't have a drill that big. So I changed gears a bit and did this:










I fit this kinda like you do horseshoes, I got close with a good first estimate and then tweaked it a bit to get this:



















A little epoxy to hold it together and waterproof the inside channel and it will be ready for mounting










I still have the rest of the mast to smooth and taper. I was about to cut the pintels when my garage sale lathe arrived so this is were I left it for today. And tomorrow its back to work so the progress will slow a little. This is just a shot of some of the fantastic country side I drove through on my way back from Rivers.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *No brushes, so worked on the mast mount*
> 
> I couldn't find any brushes and I don't like shopping on Sunday so I thought instead of painting I'd just work on the mast mount. Now I'd initially had this really complicated mount in my head (a dark and scary place at the best of times but after a bit of advice, from shipwright, on how strong the step would need to be I simplified my plan.
> 
> ...


Massive mast step Mark.
Friendship's is a 2" square hole two inches deep that fits a 2X2X2 tenon on the bottom of the mast. I will admit that the block with the hole in it is well secured to the hull and keel however.
I don't know the rig on this little guy but in most cases it is a good idea to keep the mast from rotating ( hence the square tenon). Might be an idea to glue some little triangular bits on the foot of the mast to re- square it.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *No brushes, so worked on the mast mount*
> 
> I couldn't find any brushes and I don't like shopping on Sunday so I thought instead of painting I'd just work on the mast mount. Now I'd initially had this really complicated mount in my head (a dark and scary place at the best of times but after a bit of advice, from shipwright, on how strong the step would need to be I simplified my plan.
> 
> ...


WOW…


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *No brushes, so worked on the mast mount*
> 
> I couldn't find any brushes and I don't like shopping on Sunday so I thought instead of painting I'd just work on the mast mount. Now I'd initially had this really complicated mount in my head (a dark and scary place at the best of times but after a bit of advice, from shipwright, on how strong the step would need to be I simplified my plan.
> 
> ...


I checked this evening when I got home and as I hadn't finished rounding the whole length on end of the mast is still 8 sided and cannot rotate. I'm going to mount this block at the top edge of the 'sail locker' bulkhead with a smaller pad at the very bottom to locate the mast on the hull. This block may be overkill but it will also act as a lid stop for the locker. It probably would have been helpful to see a real sailboat before I started building this one. I think the last sail boat I saw was the ketch Nonsuch at the Museum of Man and Nature in Winnipeg a couple of years ago.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*Pintle cut, gudgeons mounted!*

Well made a bit of progress today.










Glued this down a couple of evenings ago and could finish mounting the locker bulkhead this evening.










I've added the lid for the locker. I'm not impressed with the fit of the lid but I figure I'm spending too much time on it fiddling and I might just fiddle myself into winter without getting 816 wet.










I'm telling myself its for ventilation so the locker doesn't get musty I did deliberately leave a bit of a gap at the bottom of the bulkhead to allow any water that may get inside to drain.

As I was sanding everything down in preparation for painting I discovered I'd missed taping and epoxying a corner. I had wanted to glue the gudgeons on this evening so I just mixed up a little bigger batch. Just previewed the blog and realize the glare of the wet epoxy looks like the fabric isn't thoroughly wetted. It is, I had to double check though. I am having some weirdness where the last picture keeps popping into random places in the blog…if you're seeing two gudgeon pictures my apologies but I'm about to lose patience trying to fix it










After a bit of head scratching on how I was going to hold the gudgeons in place while the glue hardened I came up with this. I did run the pintle rod down the holes just to be sure things lined up. Next time I may drill the holes post gluing them on; I'm not sure if that would work better.










This boat business is getting expensive, I had a hitch installed on the RAV today now I can go looking for a small utility trailer to move 816. I am already thinking the RAV is too small to pull a bigger boat….hmmm maybe I need a pickup to…now wheres that winning lottery ticket ?


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Pintle cut, gudgeons mounted!*
> 
> Well made a bit of progress today.
> 
> ...


Looks damn good. Stop fiddling around and let's see her sail!
(to be taken as words of encouragement and not a suggestion that you should do shoddy work)
BTW, I've had the same thing happen with last photos in blog entries. The spare one usually pops up at the top of the page for me. You just have to go back in and delete it.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Pintle cut, gudgeons mounted!*
> 
> Well made a bit of progress today.
> 
> ...


Thanks Paul. I am really looking forward to getting it in the water! Tomorrow is completing the rudder, and painting then get 816 out of the shop, lay out and fabricate a sail and figure out the rigging. Oh yeah I have to mount the leeboard maybe on the larboard side


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Pintle cut, gudgeons mounted!*
> 
> Well made a bit of progress today.
> 
> ...


I can't wait to see it on the water!


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Pintle cut, gudgeons mounted!*
> 
> Well made a bit of progress today.
> 
> ...


You and me both Mike!


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Pintle cut, gudgeons mounted!*
> 
> Well made a bit of progress today.
> 
> ...


I saw the pictures on my phone--but just had time now to read the story…looking good…

I may have asked this, but: did you glass everywhere? outside? inside? or just tape around corners and edges?

This time I will click on "watchlist" so I will see your answer…

matt


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Pintle cut, gudgeons mounted!*
> 
> Well made a bit of progress today.
> 
> ...


Hello Matt,

I just glassed the edges and joints. The tanks are glassed at their corners and joints so they have glass on the outside and inside. I want to be sure they stay water tight


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Pintle cut, gudgeons mounted!*
> 
> Well made a bit of progress today.
> 
> ...


it looks like there is a dry sheet of glass sitting on the tip of the side. I guess that is just plastic lining?


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Pintle cut, gudgeons mounted!*
> 
> Well made a bit of progress today.
> 
> ...


That's a piece of poly that I was using to wet and position the glass. Actually pieces of poly have been enormously useful in this build.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*Now I need a new tool*










Had just about finished sanding 816 in preparation to painting when my ROS decided to spill its guts. It was weird there was no indication it was going to fail, just bam mid sanding the bottom pops out. The motor didn't stop or buzz just no more sanding pad. I was going to see if I could get it back together but I am going to push on with the painting.










The choice of paint colours is what was left in the house from various other DIY projects. I am gaining some painting experience here as well. The main thing is that the epoxy will be protected from UV rays The sail locker is bigger than I thought it would be, I'm happy with it.










The only 'bright work' on 816 is the maple gudgeons. These are from scraps of some maple that had very nice chatoyance but it doesn't really show in these two pieces.










Well 816 is painted topside and once the paint is hard enough I'll flip it and do the bottom of the hull.

I have no idea how to rig all the running lines so I'm off to the PDR site to see if there is any help there. Judging by what I can make out from the photos the mainsheet is attached to control the position of the boom. It appears that the so called 'leg o' mutton' sail is fixed to the mast and has no sheet to haul it up the mast. On the other hand I am just learning all the lingo so I am hoping I got the usage right here

I'll keep folks posted.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Now I need a new tool*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


VERY COOL…I am soooo happy for you…you took some time to decide on a boat and now you are nearly done! I think this is awesome! I wish I could find time for the boats…but you really are inspiring me!

Are you concerned about water splashing into the locker?

I cant wait to see the videos of the first (and all of them) sail…

I am going with a leg-o-mutton sail too…so I look forward to LEARNING from you on the rigging!

soooo cool Mark!


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Now I need a new tool*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No Matt I am not really worried about water getting into the locker, I'm expecting it to get wet I just screwed up the locker lid so I'm calling it ventilation instead of it being too short  that sounds like I did it intentionally LOL!

I was actually surprised at how little there is on Shorty's site about the actual sheets and where they go. I guess he is used to seeing actual sailboats so it is just intuitive for him. It has cooled off, being evening here, a bit so I'm going to head back out to the shop (it was 28 in there earlier…to hot for me). I am going to finish the bottom and maybe cut out the sail. I actually got out of the shop and bought some rope and hardware.; Now I need to figure out where it all goes


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Now I need a new tool*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your rigging will be very simple Mark. You will need a halyard to raise the sail and a sheet to control it . That's all. 
BTW there are no ropes on sailboats. We call them lines. If you're going to walk the walk, you gotta talk the talk.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Now I need a new tool*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Paul, I guess I am trying to over complicate things again. So the halyard to raise the sail and a sheet to control the boom and those are all the lines I need, good. See I am slooowly picking up the lingo 

I think we have another scorcher today, it is already in the mid twenties and its just shy of noon. This would have been a great day to be sailing!


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Now I need a new tool*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Only if there's wind.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Now I need a new tool*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is ALWAYS wind on the prairies ;-)

We actually just had a gully washer of a storm blow up and then over in less than an hour. I was very glad I was NOT on the water. I think bare poles would have been too much sail at one point. I wouldn't be surprised if there were tornadoes somewhere near by. One of the bad things about not have electronic mass media in the house is I don't always know what is happening nearby.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

* Set back*










816 isn't really ready for this step but I had to see what it would look like with the mast I am actually glad I did this because I identified a significant flaw in my build. There is significant torque applied to the step and parter so with the way I've mounted the partner on the 3/8 bulkhead it is clearly too weak to sustain the kinds of forces that it needs to. I will need to re-work the bulkhead and step. I left the bulkhead free floating at base, in retrospect this was a bad idea. Having the bottom fixed would have added some rigidity to the bulkhead, but probably not enough. I almost popped the bulkhead right out as I tried to step the mast and it got a little sideways on me as I was lowering it. I also learned that the mast is too thick for the hole in the partner, which is good actually because I wanted to plane the mast down at the base to make it look a bit better. I think I am going to replicate the partner and use that as the step and perhaps add some bracing to the bulkhead to further stiffen things up.

Spent much of the day planing the mast into a cylinder, after my test fit I really do want to add more of a taper but may leave that until I actually get out on the water. During the storm we had here I puttered around a bit with different bits of line and trying to figure out the rigging. I think I have a good idea of where I want to go, I just have to get it done. I have a few ideas of how to attach the leech of the sale to the mast but some of them take considerable time so I need to get something working first I can get fancy later. I did pick up a power cord for my lathe so I replace the old cord and powered it up. It sounds smooth and powerful and of course very quiet. I dabbled at trying some turning, but I'll talk about that on a different post.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> * Set back*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear you had a setback Mark. The mast step itself should be glued to the bottom of the boat and should take a lot of strain off the bulkhead. If you make the step fit against the bhd and glue it to the bhd that should reinforce the bottom of the bhd without losing the scupper effect you got from not gluing it down. Then a simple stiffener across the top should do it.

As for the sail, I would discourage you from attaching the leach to the mast at all as that is the trailing edge. The luff however can be fastened very easily with a lacing. It works better with a gaff rig but should get you by even with a marconi sail. They are usually set up with slides in a track. Of course if it were me I'd make it a gaff or sprit sail.
What kind is it BTW?


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> * Set back*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you Paul for preventing me from making a horrible rigging mistake! I can just picture how ridiculous that would look with the leech firmly fastened to my mast as well as the luff! Newbies make such interesting mistakes LOL!

Shorty refers to the sail I am looking at as a 'Leg o Mutton' sail, an isosceles triangle with the long side being the luff and the clew at the opposite corner with the boom at right angles to the mast to be in line with the clew (that's the outside corner right  ? I'm using this rig by default as I have no experience to make an intelligent selection from all the other types of rigs out there. As I am learning about this stuff it is becoming increasingly complex (which I am enjoying immensely). I will have to research what a gaff rig or a sprit sail are as those may be other good choices. What are the characteristics of these sail rigs that you prefer? Remember I barely know port from starboard (or luff from leech LOL!) so I need something simple, that and I want my kids to be able to handle 816.

It isn't that bad of a set back. I sort of thought that the partner being by itself wouldn't be enough and I will follow what you suggest and glue the step to the hull and the bulkhead to the step and I may just sacrifice a loittle more of the scupper and fillet and tape a good percentage of the bottom of the bulkhead. I don't anticipate having huge amounts of water in there unless I dump 816. A 4 or 5 cm gap should be sufficient with a height of about 10 mm. I may brace from the bow to the bulkhead which would add significant rigidity to both the bulkhead and the locker lid so if I or the kids want to stand on it to cast or what have you.

I'm going to Winnipeg Friday/Saturday to celebrate my Mom's and youngest sister's birthdays so I plan to get the step mounted Sunday after church.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> * Set back*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wish I had time to read this right now ( CAN you tell school started!!! I will go back and read)...I just wanted to share this quick observation--that mast looks soooooooo tall! I am using the leg o mutton too…so I cant wait to read the comments from you and paul…

the first month of teaching is not fun…work wise that is…its still fun working with the kids…


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> * Set back*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know what you mean, I used to spend the first two or three weeks horse from lecturing for 5 to7 hours a day. I feel your pain


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> * Set back*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mark, choice of rig is a personal thing but I prefer gaff rigs for appearance mostly and the fact that they lower the centre of drive a little while maintaining sail area. The sprit sail is better suited to very small boats like this but both would require a little more complex rigging and would complicate things that at this moment, you don't need complicated. The PDR site shows a couple with repurposed windsurfer sails. I think that would be ideal. On a boat I guess that would be called a lateen rig.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> * Set back*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OK I just looked up leg o mutton sails on the net. As applied to small boats they are a form of sprit sail. I think of them in larger boat situations where they are more loose footed conventional mainsails. That will work fine and be a little easier than a gaff or four sided sprit sail of the type to which I was referring. I still like the windsurfer idea though.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> * Set back*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can see the advantage of lowering the centre of drive. It is good to know that it is acceptable for appearance to be a factor in rigging a craft, I thought it would be strictly a pragmatic type of selection process. I do want to experiment with different rigging but getting out there sailing is the first priority I think I have a few seasons under my belt I'll be better able to handle more complicated rigging, I suspect the kids (Lauren and Paul) will pick up sailing faster than I do. I have a picture in my mind of my family and I sailing a much more elegant craft than the PDR with proper rigging, sails, rudders etc.

I like the idea of a windsurfer mast and sail also. The buddy I've mentioned before (Phil) is actually using one on his resurrected sailboat hull. Phil has been experimenting with other sails also so I am hopeful to learn 'hands on' from him as much as I can.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*Something here is not quite right*










Days when I do stuff like this I move a whole lot more carefully and really plan out any work with sharp spinny bits. Once I remedied the goof I managed to finish my mast step.










A buddy of mine came over after work to check out the progress on 816 and of course we talked about all manner of sailing things. Phil had some really good advice about strengthening my mast/locker bulkhead and not add too much weight. We also had a really good discussion about rigging 816, and I think he helped me understand a bit more about the actual function and forces on the various lines and booms etc.

I'm in Winnipeg tomorrow so not too much more will get done, unless I get back early enough. I need to sand off the paint where the step is going and where I'm going to mount the leeboard. I am still looking for a trailer so can't yet haul 816 any where just yet any way.


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## DanLyke (Feb 8, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Something here is not quite right*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not a table saw user, so I'm having trouble figuring out what exactly I'm seeing there, but… uh… how'd ya manage to… uh…

Never mind.

Glad the mast step is coming together!


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Something here is not quite right*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


its good to have good friends with good knowledge.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*some progress*

Well no pictures this evening. I managed to get a little shop time in, worked on the leeboard mounts, and the step for the mast. Those are ready for gluing in. I temporarily fixed my ROS but the bottom popped out again so I guess it's time to shop for a new sander. I still have the old B&D half sheet sander of my Dad's which is just shy of 412 years old and it still works, why can't a three or four year old sander that spent much of the time in a drawer keep working on the hobbiest type jobs I'm using it for. Old man grumbling about how things were better in the olden days.

I've been experimenting with other glues on parts of 816 and I just found why this one glue should not be used in boat construction as the glue joint failed! In defence of the product it was never intended for this kind of application, I think it is more of a static joint type glue. I just bought a small sample so I am now a bit wiser.

I'm at the stage of marking out and then cutting and gluing up the leeboard and the rudder. I'm trying to not over complicate the rudder so I can get out there on the water!

Had a great birthday visit with my mother, she really enjoyed the restaurant. Turns out she likes Mongo's which is one of my favourite restaurants in Winnipeg so it was a win for both of us.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *some progress*
> 
> Well no pictures this evening. I managed to get a little shop time in, worked on the leeboard mounts, and the step for the mast. Those are ready for gluing in. I temporarily fixed my ROS but the bottom popped out again so I guess it's time to shop for a new sander. I still have the old B&D half sheet sander of my Dad's which is just shy of 412 years old and it still works, why can't a three or four year old sander that spent much of the time in a drawer keep working on the hobbiest type jobs I'm using it for. Old man grumbling about how things were better in the olden days.
> 
> ...


Bummer on the sander. I am happy with my Ridgid I have had a few years…but you are right--these tools should last longer under hobbiest use…

You must be close…I am really stoked for you…

three day weekend coming up…and I am really going to try and uncover the pdr…

Matt


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*Some progress*










This the mast step. When I fabricated the main part it looked pretty good, then I dry fitted it and realized the partner's hole was about 5 mm out of line. The small piece there is to shim the step out the correct? distance.










These are the pieces for the rudder mount. The pieces will be laminated at the forward edge allowing the rudder to be sandwiched between the outside pieces. There are no real clear plans on Shorty's site on how to build a rudder so I am just going off the photos on his site. The notch is for the upper gudgeon the lower edge of the rudder sandwich rests on the lower gudgeon.










This is the rudder without the pivot holes drilled. I resisted the urge to find a more complicated way to make a rudder 










This shows the glue up of the leeboards (the long lamination with the most clamps), the leeboards mounts (upper and lower), and the rudder mount at the top of the poly sheet. In the lower left corner you can see the rudder getting a coat of epoxy.










I routed a small cavity in the lower end of the leeboards and filled it with shot to add a bit of weight to reduce the leeboard's chance of floating up.










I also put a coat of paint on the mast so I am ready to start rigging tomorrow. The photo is of the current state of the shop. 816 is spending it's first night outdoors. I am sort of hoping for some rain just to see if the hull is as tight as I think it is.

This is my first post from this new iPhone 5 I just started using on Saturday. It is dead easy to take pictures as I go…except when I am applying the epoxy of course


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Some progress*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like you're getting close.
How's the wind on the prairie these days?
We haven't had much at all for a month.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Some progress*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hope we get to see it on the water before winter Mark.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Some progress*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Paul it has been killing me as we've had some great hot days with perfect winds! With the daily heating we seem to always get winds and they usually are from one direction which will hopefully make learning to sail easier 

You and me both Mike! It seems the usually steady stream of utility trailers for sale has dried up now that I am looking for one. I may just be forced to buy new :-( I may just borrow a truck for the launch just to get 816 in the water.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*Rudder nonsense!*










The partner and step line up nicely. I had a bit of a surprise when I discovered the mast was a bit thicker further up and would not fit through the partner. A bit of work with the block plane and all was good.










There is a bit of reinforcing yet for the mast but it looks pretty good. I have the brace pieces cut, they just need to be painted and then mounted.










I bored out the holes for the pintle bar. I ran into a bit of an obstacle in that I had not really factored in the bulk of the rudder sandwich when I went with the scaled down gudgeons. I went back to the larger gudgeons and now have clearance for the rudder to pivot.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Rudder nonsense!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you should name your boat Kermit. It isn't easy being green.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Rudder nonsense!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It looks almost ready Mark. It must be exciting to think that you will soon be out sailing her.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Rudder nonsense!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As I was painting the green on Paul that was the song running through my head LOL! I've got to come up with a name soon as I am running out of stuff to do on 816!

Mike I sure am looking forward to getting 816 out on the water. This may be the fastest I have ever completed a project!


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*Sailing along*










Making the sail was an ideal time to overly complicate and over think the process… But I resisted my instinctive need to make things hard and just went with Shorty's recommended measures and used two tape measures to define the shape of the sail. I just swung the ends of the tapes in their respective arcs until both ends met and voila a leg o mutton sail. Dead easy and fast. Shorty recommends duct taping along these lines and then cut along the tape. My first thought was to lay out the sails using chalkl lines, but I went with Shorty. I was doing it on my lawn which in retrospect was probably not an optimal place. The tarp bunched up as I was taping it resulting in a clumsy taping job. Shorty's instructions also talk about embedding a rope in the fold of tarp at the cut edges of the sail. I am not sure why this is done but am doing it anyway. One thing I found that trying to trap the rope, fold the edge over and then hold it all while taping was beyond my dexterity. Being a woodworker I thought if it was wood giving me this much grief that I'd clamp it down. So that is what I did and I have to take back all the nasty comments about the eight zillion and twelve spring clamps I have received as gifts over the years. The little ones which until now I thought were the most useless tool in my shop, not any more, as they were ideal for this task.










There is the cut out sail. Chores prevented me from completing this tonight. One thing I have been wondering about is where to place the mounts for the leeboards. Shorty talks about locating the board just forward of the centre of effort of the sail. I am not sure what is meant by that but I will use his diagram to kind of figure out where the mounts should go. I am thinking that this is probably not a precise measure but more of an experiment type placement. With that in mind I made the mounts fairly long so I think I should have enough room to experiment.

Well it's ice cream time so I will pack it in for the night.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Sailing along*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


slammeed with work…so I have not read the two entries yet (sorry) but it looks like you are soooo close…


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Sailing along*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Coming along well Mark. I'm pretty sure the bolt rope is to keep the tarp (a woven fabric) from stretching where it is cut on the bias.
Tell me you were hanging by your heels to stretch your poor sore back when you took the picture. Otherwise I'm going to have to think it's upside down.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Sailing along*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The sail looks fine Mark but I am a little worried about your navigation skills when I see the orientation of your photo.


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## Bluepine38 (Dec 14, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Sailing along*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Laying a long board, or strips of plywood under the tarp or cloth and clamping the material to that to hold 
it straight while folding and taping would help.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Sailing along*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah the picture is from an Austrailian camera! Actually these are some of the first photos with this new phone so I think what is happening if I hold it with the lens to the right it comes up here rightside up, if I have the lens to the left it shows up as above. In my photo gallery both orientations show the picture right side up. I'm gonna have to learn how to turn pictures before I post them here. I didn't notice the neighbours yard was upside down when I posted LOL!

Thanks Paul, that makes sense using the bolt rope to reinforce the fabric. I thinks this means I should fasten this rope to the clew and and the head and a second boltrope from the head to the tack? so that they'll take some of the strain instead of the cut edge. I think I'm using the right terms for the top corner on my triangular sail is the head, the bottom of the luff ends at the tack and the last corner at the corner of the foot and leech is the clew?

I'm hoping my navigation 'skills' won't cause me too much trouble Mike LOL!

Gus your right the board would help if I stayed on the lawn but I moved it into the shop and think I'll be okay.

Matt what could you be busy with at this time of year? The start of the school year is always busy, starting at a new school must be doubly so. Things will settle into a routine and won't seem quite so busy after a while.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Sailing along*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your terminology is improving. Next we teach you how to swear like a sailor …...


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Sailing along*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It would be interesting to compare the lexicon of sailors against that used during my years in construction LOL!


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Sailing along*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


man I feel like I just came out of a black hole…still busy…but just caught up on #28, 29 and #30 blog…crazy cool…

nice mast step!


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *Sailing along*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have actually finished 816 but have been too busy to get it in the water. I should post the project and the name I came up with. Hope your year is sorting itself out. My youngest sister just got a full time teaching position earlier today. I am super excited for her. This will be amongst the best Thanksgiving's for her family ( in Canada Thanksgiving is this Monday). This will be the first big holiday since I lost Jennifer so it's gonna be a tough one. I am on my way in to Winnipeg now to spend the weekend there. Sure beats sitting home in an empty house.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*What not to run through your planer!*










I have proved tha Robertson screws are, indeed, harder than my planer blades :-(

I was working on a new and improved tiller for 816 and was using up some leftover/recycled boards. The daft part is that this was the second tiller I was making today (didn't like the first one) and had carefully made sure there were no screws in that piece, the piece that had the screw was the offcut from the first piece! You apparently have to chech EACH piece LOL!

Oh well, they were old blades so it isn't their first nick. Now I can clean up all the boards in that pike and then put on some new blades


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

FatherHooligan said:


> *What not to run through your planer!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Buy a metal detector, it will certainly PU screws!


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *What not to run through your planer!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ouch!


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *What not to run through your planer!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Robert, this wasn't a technological failure it was more of a operator error. I just didn't stop to think about what I was doing.

Yup Mike ouch…this is what I get for not paying attention.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *What not to run through your planer!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Auuuch
I have invested in a cheap metal detector for recycle wood.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *What not to run through your planer!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Mads, I will have to see if I can find one.


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *What not to run through your planer!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


;-)


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

FatherHooligan said:


> *What not to run through your planer!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tell me about it. Nicked my jointer knives in a 60's model jointer that took me 6 hrs to get set perfect. At least most planer blades are easy to change. You have that going for you.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

*IT FLOATS!!!*

My two children and I finally got a nice weekend to launch hull 816 this past Saturday.










The name of this boat is the Galega after the largest of the three ships Christopher Columbus used. There is some evdence that the Santa Maria was owned by a cartographer which came from Galatia in Europe. I thought it a bit presumptious to call my scow such a significant name so when I learned of the alternate title I was very happy. I like the fact that, as a practical Catholic who is an active member of the Knights of Columbus, I can declare my belief and honour the memory of our order's namesake. I like the fact that the owner of that ship was a cartographer like myself and that my grandmother came from somewhat the same area.










Galega gets her first taste of water! My biggest concern of the day was that I could lift her on and off the boat trailor.




























I'll post more later but it is soo time for bead  Good night all


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *IT FLOATS!!!*
> 
> My two children and I finally got a nice weekend to launch hull 816 this past Saturday.
> 
> ...


It floats! Your family will have a great time with this boat Mark. Congratulations on the successful launch.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *IT FLOATS!!!*
> 
> My two children and I finally got a nice weekend to launch hull 816 this past Saturday.
> 
> ...


Very cool…so happy for you…I am a little closer…


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## Grumpymike (Jan 23, 2012)

FatherHooligan said:


> *IT FLOATS!!!*
> 
> My two children and I finally got a nice weekend to launch hull 816 this past Saturday.
> 
> ...


My history book says that Columbus' three ships were the Nina, the Pinta and the Santa Maria … But I still like your project, I think the kids will have more fun than dad … Looks like the sides are foam filled? and double as seating?? ... Great storage hold in the bow … my boat could sure use a bit more storage.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *IT FLOATS!!!*
> 
> My two children and I finally got a nice weekend to launch hull 816 this past Saturday.
> 
> ...


Thanks folks. We had a few gremlins but I'll work 'em out. 
You are right Grumpymike on the three names; the Santa Maria was renamed from the Galega when she was put into Columbus' service.

I hope to get some pictures with the mast and rigging set up and hopefully with her underway. We were too focused on getting her in the water to stop and take pictures LOL!

The sides are just hollow flotation tanks but will make great fishing/diving platforms when we aren't sailing. Right now the boom is far too low for comfortable seating while under way. I may actually have to downsize the sail and boom.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *IT FLOATS!!!*
> 
> My two children and I finally got a nice weekend to launch hull 816 this past Saturday.
> 
> ...


did you do the rigging? how did she sail?


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *IT FLOATS!!!*
> 
> My two children and I finally got a nice weekend to launch hull 816 this past Saturday.
> 
> ...


We had the sail out and a good off shore breeze but I haven't rebuilt my shattered lee board yet and was trying to use my oars as both keel and rudder. I didn't have too much control as she seemed to want to sit parallel to the wind. I lowered the sail and started paddling back before we got too far from shore. The experience has convinced me to make my lee board widr and perhaps shorter. That is on the agenda for this weekend. She draws so little water and the sail is a bit oversized from the design on the web site..you could just feel the pull on the hull as the sail filled! I think it will be a fun first boat


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *IT FLOATS!!!*
> 
> My two children and I finally got a nice weekend to launch hull 816 this past Saturday.
> 
> ...


Wonderful, that sure is a Family Victory day.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *IT FLOATS!!!*
> 
> My two children and I finally got a nice weekend to launch hull 816 this past Saturday.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mads, it certainly was fun!


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## mafe (Dec 10, 2009)

FatherHooligan said:


> *IT FLOATS!!!*
> 
> My two children and I finally got a nice weekend to launch hull 816 this past Saturday.
> 
> ...


;-)


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

FatherHooligan said:


> *IT FLOATS!!!*
> 
> My two children and I finally got a nice weekend to launch hull 816 this past Saturday.
> 
> ...


It will take trial and error on the first trips to get her right--or to get you right…have fun…


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

FatherHooligan said:


> *IT FLOATS!!!*
> 
> My two children and I finally got a nice weekend to launch hull 816 this past Saturday.
> 
> ...


Will do Matt! It will be a lot of fun to figure it out!


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