# When do I go full time?



## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

I started our cabinet business 18 months ago. It was feast and famine. We recently hooked up with a solid stone counter top guy who opened his own retail kitchen design center and brought us on as his custom cabinet source. We provided 2 very nice looking display units, one out of beech and the other out of hickory. Last summer was slow, we were still trying to establish our name so I was forced back to full time state job. We just landed 2 jobs (1 is new construction owner build 5000 sf) we sold at 30000 combined. I only make 30000 per year for the state but I get full benefits. Plus I have small children to consider. Now I am working a grueling schedule, starting in the home shop at 5:30 am, then state job from 9 am to 6 pm Monday through Friday, then in the shop all day and night saturday and sunday. Sort of crazy, but I love woodworking or building kitchens, if that can be considered real woodworking. Oh, and believe it or not, my 95 lb wife does 70% of all the woodworking (2 little girls by her side, growing up in a woodshop), she works all day and into the evening monday through saturday in the shop. She loves the akeda jig and seems to love the shaper also. She is a bit scared of the TS though but still uses it.

If I quit and my business thrives, I look smart. But if the work goes dry, then hungry little girls and finding myself in a helpless situation…
Thanks for any advice. Check out our work and business at www.topqualitycabinets.net.

Happy woodworking!

Jerry


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Welcome to reality. Most self employed business owners have been through the start up process you just described. If you make it 5 years, you are over the hump.


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## davidroberts (Nov 8, 2008)

I don't mean to spoil the party, but it's all about your girls. You need the State job benifits much more than you need to build cabinets full time. Besides, you still get to do something you like. Welcome to responsible parenthood.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Great comments. Thanks for both responses. I likely will continue the current grueling schedule while keeping my state job for the benefits and stable income. It is just that when I am building cabinets, I really enjoy myself and time flies by. While at my state job I am constantly catching my mind wondering off into woodworking. But of course our girls are first and foremost. I just like the idea of doing something I love to do and getting paid well to do it.


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## mfike (May 12, 2008)

I understand where you're at completely. My advise would be to keep doing what you're doing as long as you can. Hopefully enough work will come your way that you can justify going full time. It's really a tough call. You want to be responsible, but you want to follow your dream too. All the greats have failed at sometime. Of course the consequence of failure in your situation and most peoples these days is very steep. Sorry man, I'm not sure if that's helpful or just plain depressing.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

If it's depressing you better keep the state job. If its motivating, you'll make it, eventually. We all have setbacks along the, yoiu just have to pickup teh pieces and go for it again.


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## hooky (Apr 25, 2009)

i know it is a scary decision

it took me nearly 20 years in my state job before deciding to jump ship and try something else

but this is the most important part i took leave without pay for 12 months so there was always a fallback position

in your case your job might let you cut back hours so you only work part time and still have money coming in

checkout all your options and cover them all before going full time

I was lucky my furniture making course led me in to an apprenticeship cabinet making job

hope this helps

Hooky


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

hang in there , jerry .

taking care of your family ,
is and should be first .

and who knows ,
maybe the girls ,
might hire you to be a janitor ,
in their cabinet shop !


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## ND2ELK (Jan 25, 2008)

Family is number one! For 9 years I worked a fourty hour a week state job and had a custom cabinet business. I would put more hours in a the cabinet shop working nights and weekends than I did at my regular job. There is more to life than money and work! I lost a 22 year marriage and spending time with my family.

God Bless
tom


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## Innovator (Jan 20, 2009)

I wouldnt quit until you have 1 yr of income saved up (at a min.).

For now to relieve your crazy schedule, you might be able to hire someone to help out part time. Remember those little girls grow up quick!


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks a lot everyone. I really like the one year income savings, I actually do not think that will not be hard. I have found business to get more consistent since sort of partnering up with the retail center kitchen guy. The cool thing about that is, I used to drive all over the place, meeting with prospective customers, then giving estimates. Now this guy is doing all that for me for free since I do not pay him. I am finding our profit margins are decent, overhead is small, but most of our profits in the past year has gone towards upgrading our equipment to assist in efficiency and quality. I just recently spent around 2000.00 on tool upgrades and before that I bought an akeda jig which we love, but that was something like 450.00. So I guess I am thinking we will likely be able to save very well in the future since I should be able to stop making large tool purchases soon. We are actually getting ready to build a 50' by 100' workshop and we aim to pay cash for the building by pooling together the profits from a few jobs.

Also, I may be biased here, but our product really has come a long way and we provide a very nice looking and high quality product and do great work. I believe if a person does that they likely should find work will find them.


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## Al_PG (Jan 29, 2009)

Jerry have you looked into going part time or doing some sort of job sharing with your state job. If that is possible it would be a good transition. Good luck


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## huff (May 28, 2009)

Jerry, just a little food for thought…...and a few questions you will have to answer for yourself. There's a fine line between love and passion to do wookworking and love making money doing woodworking. I, for one have a deep passion for my woodworking, so was willing to take my coat and tie off almost 25 years ago and throw them in the closet to make sawdust for a living. I've never lost my passion for woodworking, but there has been times when it's not fun because of the money making part of it. We started out as a two income family (My wife had a good job also), so giving up my 9 - 5 job with benifits worked out OK. We still had an income to fall back on as my woodworkimg business was growing. Then my wife got sick….... she was still able to work and she had good benefits, but things began to change, she had to finally quit work and go on disabitly which made a difference on our income. More pressure was put on me to make sure my business could pick up the difference. Cancer took my wife 8 years ago and the pressure was directly on my business to take care of my two boys. (My one son was working with me in the business, so he was relying on the business to take care of his family too) and my youngest son was still at home ready to go to college. This is not a sob story, just real life. I can't suggest what you should do, but make sure you take time to think everything out first. Be "honest" with yourself when looking at the pros and cons. I'm still making sawdust and I have a stronger passion for woodworking today then when I got started, but there will be times when you will be tested. Good luck with whichever choice you make, but whatever you do, take time to enjoy the family.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

A lot to think about. The benefits with the state certainly are good. It just makes me think a lot about it when I am able to come close to making my state annual salary in 3 average sized kitchen jobs. Today I started working in the shop at 9 am and just quit a 7:30 and I felt like I only put a few hours since the day went by so fast. Plus, I tend to tihnk I would have more time to spend with the family if I were only working 50 or so hours instead of the 60 to 80 hours I am doing now. Certainly a lot to think about. Health benefits are also a concern of mine for the family.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

As most of the gang says don't quit you day job. I have been self employed for 38 years and there's a lot of chicken and feathers going on. The one years income idea is a good start but with a business that has expenses and no benefits plus a slower economy I would hold on to your day job especially if you have less than ten years to retirement. I would also suggest eliminating all the debt you can before starting that full time business.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Anyone know about good health insurance opportunities? Also, any rule of thumb on how much I should be saving back for tax time. I have been using quicken home and business. We have the program flagging all of our cabinet related expenses. Hopefully I can just let quicken print off my deposits and expenses so I can pay taxes on the profits. Any advise is helpful. We already run a cabinet business full time, it is just that I have a side state job that takes 40 hours of my time. Currently we are wrapping up 2 kitchens and have 2 large kitchen jobs upcoming. We always welcome the challange. Anyone in the San Antonio area that is bored just give me a call. lol


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Hey Jerry
You need to get a good tax person There the one's that can help with income Tax questions. Anyone on else can get you in big trouble. That's great you have so much work coming your way.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks everyone. This site is great with a wealth of knowledge. I have been peaking in on this site every now and then for a long time now.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Figure about 30% of net for taxes. If you don't pay in quarterly, yoiu will pay a penalty for holding out on the gov't!!


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Don't forget you have to pay self employment tax which is both halves of Social Security and medicare.


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## Ozfiddler (Jan 10, 2009)

Probably your safest option is to try to go part time at the state job - the last thing you want is to be so tired that when you make that last cut on a production run you take your thumb with it.

As for security - what job is secure these days? I say bite off more than you can chew and then chew like heck! I spent ten years as a self-employed musician and my daughter is a full-time circus performer - yes it takes commitment and dedication, but then at least you're doing something you love doing - which is more than a lot of people can say. There's always a reason NOT to do something - I prefer to ask the question: "under what conditions can i…?" Then set about meeting those conditions and follow your passion.

Cheers
Jerry


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## dennis (Aug 3, 2006)

Just figure 9 out of 10 don't make it. I've seen many fail because of too much work. Is your wife making $35.00 an hour? Would you? This economy has yet to turn.


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## DiamondWW (Jul 20, 2009)

My two cents worth on this is to ask "Are you vested in the state system?" That can make a difference in your decision. Being vested gives you a few extra options.


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## FenceWorkshop (Nov 5, 2009)

Jerry

I went to your site and your work looks great. I would strongly suggest that read up and work on "website optimization" so that you site gets more exposure. Here is an example of an easy improvement on your site, that can make a huge difference… Currently you home page's title says "Top Quality Cabinets", where as is should be something that you customer bas would search for… "Custom Cabinet Builder San Antonio, TX". I know plugging on a computer is not as fun as getting out there and working, but it's essential for local companies to do this. Your customer base wants to find you just as much as you want them to. You basically need to "tell the search engines what you want to show up for". http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=35291 Here is a good link to get you started. Hiring a company to do this for a local company, will almost never work out for many different reasons. Hope this helps and good luck to you!


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## tooldad (Mar 24, 2008)

I have one thing for you to think of. Once it becomes a "product" that means it is a job, and all the fun is now gone because it is work. I like my job, but it is a job, I get to do woodworking on the side, even a kitchen or 2 here and there, but it is my choice so it is still a hobby, that makes money. Don't get yourself into a position where you "have to" take jobs to make ends meet and then you don't enjoy the woodworking any more.

Also the paperwork, insurance and taxes, to me aren't worth the hassle sometimes.

just my 2 cents


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## bruc101 (Sep 13, 2008)

If you have a "real job" with steady income and benifits then my suggestion would be to keep that job with the benifits. With the turn down in housing cabinet shops are folding everywhere and I doubt very seriously in my life time I'll be able to tell someone again you're 3rd or fouth in line before we can get to you.
Like one poster said it's fun when you maing money but when you're not making money then it get's depressing and the fun goes away.
I would think family first, job second and cabinet shop last. This is all I've ever done and for over a year now it's not been nice to us nor any cabinet shop I know. Overhead doesn't stop nor do the other bills and especially the family bills. I'm in agreement like tool dad, the paperwork, the taxes, the insurance and if you're self employed then the list goes on. I know of one shop that had all they could keep up with last year durning the turndown, today he's laying his people off and closing his doors. I have another friend that was a one man shop geared up with a big showroom and design center..no longer in business and that shut him down so now he's working for a roofing company at the age of 60 and says he can't last much longer. I can tell you horror stories about working for design centers and a lot of builders..they get their money first and the cabinet man is last on their list of paying and I've seen it happen many times, the cabinet man doesn't get paid.
Job Security you seem to have, my advise would be to keep it and let the cabinet business make it's on way and if it doesn't then you still have Job Security and time to "enjoy" woodworking. My 2 cents worth

Bruc


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## IanBarley (Jan 5, 2010)

How good are you at the business of business? That's what will make the difference between failure and avoiding failure - for success you need a big big wad of the luck that comes from hard work. Your gruelling schedule sounds like self employment. In my season (I make outdoor furniture) I work at least 80 hours a week - sometimes nearer 100. This summer ( a good one) I didn't have a day off for about 10 weeks. I don't have kids, have a wife who earns good money and am fortunate enough to be provided with good healthcare as a result of the taxes that I pay. Your situation is very different. The reason that I have not failed so far is because I know a bit about business having managed units in other peoples for many years before I started self employment. I understand enough about marketing, accounting, cashflow and planning to get by. If you can say the same that is much more important than how good the cabinets you build are.

Also, if you solid counter contact is doing your selling and estimating for you for free then your very lucky. He won't for long, unless he's really stupid. The purpose of his business is to make him richer not you. Sounds a bit like you are over reliant on a single source of business and interruption to that, for whatever reason , would drop you in the mud.

two pennorth. Valued at the price you paid for it.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

I have no idea how so many start a business and make a "go" of it. It's brutal in the compitition department with folks and pencils so sharp they could be used as a scalpel.

Add up all your expenses, including your mortgage, food, diapers, phone…......vacation, rent, tools, maintenance, inventory, taxes…..the list is so long that there might not be enough bandwidth to write it all down and then remember the number one rule in business

always make more money then you spend

I checked out your web site….................a lot of your products dont come with "kick plates".....why is that?


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Ian, I am not the best business man out there but I am learning. For now I work for TX full time until I feel the time is right to move on. I sort of feel like saving 2 years income before making the transition. I may never make the full time transition anyway, who knows. The thought of missing out on a retirement for my wife and I is not good. Then again I simply love woodworking/building kitchens. With that said, working in a cabinet shop for someone making 10 - 15.00 per hour does not seem desirable. I tend to enjoy being on my own. We get enough work on our own, we stay very busy and sometimes I realize I could do more work and take on more jobs if I was not with TX. I figure we probably pass up a fair amount of work because of my day job.

I was ignorant to think this fella was just going to bring me work. I did not feel it was too much of a stretch to think if I custom build and install (while donating labor) 2 high quality kitchen display units I would naturally get a few jobs per year or maybe more just from foot traffic that walks through the retail center looking for solid stone counter tops and custom cabinets. I still have every other day contact with that guy but so far he has given me false hopes, such as "I have been meeting with a owner builder and I thing we are close to selling a kitchen". I have heard lines similar to this one many times but so far all I have done was install this fella's parents new kitchen at a discounted price since I was trying to be nice.

With that said, my next customer, the job begins this monday, requested she see my work in person so I took her by the retail center where my display units are at and she and her husband gave a deposit to lock in the deal just 2 days later. She even loved the granite job on the cabinets and told me to include granite as a package deal. My wife and I were very happy.

Just in the last 4 weeks I sold a 10' island cabinet, a wall unit that totals 14' of cabinet and my upcoming 60' kitchen job. So yes, I am pretty much doing my own estimating and selling my own jobs.

Roman, thanks for your response also. About your comment, we build our cabinets separate from the toe kicks. I build my cabinets as simple square boxes 30 1/2" tall with no toe kick. I then build the toe kick out of 3 7/8" material I rip from ply. We place those on the floor, level them and secure them in place. Then we just set the cabinets on them and away we go. I will be happy to answer any other questions anyone has. Of course, if anyone has a better way or can in some way help improve my process, by all means I would welcome that.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

There are a lot of BS'ers out there!! sounds lke you might have one by the tail. I know people who have bought equipment and set up to go all on the say of someone giving them a lot of work that never materialized. I'd be a bit cautious. Are you vested in the retirement plan? How much longer do you plan to work?


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Yeah, I agree. This fella seems to know how to get what he wants. I probably should not even be saying this here but I will vent some.

This guy promised another larger company that he would place a display unit in their store. He asked me to do this, I advised him I could not keep working for free. He said he would come over and do the work, I could just tell him what to do. I thought, well I will be nice and do this (I am probably too nice actually). I had the lumber company load his material, total 625.00. I called him, told him that I had his material but he needed to give his Debit card to the cashier. Oooh, he does not have enough to cover 600.00. He said he would get me back in just a couple days. I covered the 600.00, not to mention I felt embarrassed to have them unload my truck. That was a couple months ago and just 3 days ago he gave me 300.00, he still owes me 325.00

I am not vested anywhere. I spent 4 years in the Navy, 6 years with state of FL and been with TX for 2 years. I have my BA and have considered going to work as a math teacher since I know I would really enjoy that and feel that is something I could do for the next 20 years or so. So it is a struggle within since my passion seems to be woodworking.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

If you can't put away for the retirement you get with your job, you have no business quiting, IMO. That was the first thing I asked myself, am I making wages + benefits?? If not, I should go get a real job. There is something to be said for being your own boss and doing what you really want to do, too. When I started, I had industrial accounts that followed me from one employer to another unsolicited. So when I started, I did have a few basis customers I knew would call. There was no BS by some guy without any money.


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## rhett (May 11, 2008)

Its a hard deal trying to work with countertop guys. The guy I use gets plenty of work from me, but I have gotten no work from him in the last 2 years. He makes a good point in that by the time people are looking for countertops, they already have cabinets. Save the display set-ups for you own showroom.

I worked in a highend cabinet shop for awhile when I lived in Raleigh. We built 5 full sized kitchens for a Viking/Wolf dealer. The owner never got a single cabinet job even though his business info was clearly displayed in every kitchen. Get paid for your displays like any other job. If someone is looking for a cabinetmaker, they find a cabinetmaker.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Rhett, do you get some kind of bird dog fee for getting your guy some jobs. Does he give you some sort of discount or repeat business price so you can retail them out or do you simply pass the customer over to you guy.

Our upcoming customer wants us to deal with the counter tops so I am looking to retail them to the customer, since my name is on the job we may as well make something from the countertops since we will be the one they call when there are any issues.


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## Kugel (Jun 12, 2009)

Just one comment:

"the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence…"


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## Skylark53 (Jan 8, 2010)

Jerry=you asked Rhett about a bird dog fee. I've been in the building trades all my life. I've tried the bird dog fees and really found I could do just as well and often, better without "paying off" others to recommend me. I treat them all the same. The contractors get their discounts; very often the homeowners do too, because of their loyalty. Just recently I did a job for the fourth generation of customer! Actually did it several times last year. Four generations of smart shoppers/buyers. Being a cabinet maker is about skill and consistent quality craftsmanship; but being in your own business is about the money. Not greed, not duress, but you gotta get paid for the quality work you do. Building your reputation as one who is unmatched for quality work is what is going to keep them coming to you. If you do the quality work, you don't have to give anything away. You asked your question 103 days ago. You've gotten a lot of good, wise input from people who, I believe care and want to make a difference. You asked all the right questions; you're a good man. You'll make the right decisions. May God bless you, your family and your business.


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## rhett (May 11, 2008)

Skylark has hit every proverbial nail on the head with that post. Anyone can undercut a price, but not everyone can provide "true" quality products. No finders fees for me or anyone. I recommend people only when I feel their work is at the same level as mine, not to make an extra couple bucks.


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## timpletcher (Dec 25, 2009)

security means a lot for a family. someone once told me that they would have been much more successful much sooner if it hadn't been for their family. They had no regrets however. I was a contractor for my entire life before getting married, then I changed over to office work for steady pay. Now I'm building an online business. I recomend going full time when you have enough $ saved up to keep you afloat for a year or two of "rough" times. that way you have some flex time 
Thats my 2 cents


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks to everyone for all of the great advice. I feel all of the advice comes from caring people. I am not quiting my day job just yet and may not for a long while. Since I work for the state, I sort of hope to switch over to become a school teacher and teach math some day and finish out my state career as a school teacher. I would love that career path. I have always been fond of the teaching career.

As for the cabinet/custom shop. That is definitely a passion that likely will never go away and yes we are making the best wages we ever have with doing side full kitchen jobs and I know the economy is slow and hurting but we somehow just keep getting customers calling and emailing. We are seeing customers happy and that to me is the main thing. My wife said one of our customers came to pick up their 10' island cabinet yesterday and they were just extremely happy. That is one of the main reasons we do this is to see happy customers.

Oh, and I know many of us, if not all of us are affected by the bad economy and I talk a lot about getting customers pretty steady even in a bad economy. Trust me, we have also suffered greatly because of the economy, just not my cabinet/custom business which seems to have steady growth. Starting in 2002 we became real estate buyers and holders and sometimes sold. As of this past year we still owned 2 homes in nice areas in Florida and then also the home we live in here in TX. But as the economy went, the real estate market crashed and the rental incomes plummeted. I was not working for the state during this period of time and was released from my job while holding 400,000 in real estate notes and hit and miss rental income. Thus I turned to custom wood work to help me prevent loosing any of our homes. The custom stuff turned more into a cabinet shop and has seen steady growth but the inevitable occurred and we lost 2 of our 3 homes. Now we probably have terrible credit but since we only utilize cash for anything we buy, then credit scores are meaningless. I operate as COD with all my suppliers. I guess we are just your run of the mill simple family of 4 trying to do whatever we can to survive and the cabinet business happens to be something both my wife and I love a ton and is doing really well for us.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

To further explain, 1991 - 95 college (BA degree), 96 - 2000 (U.S. Navy), I worked for state FL from 2000 to 2007 then moved my family to TX and took a break from state work and worked for Dish Network. As the economy slowed in 2008 I was terminated one day from Dish. I sent out probably 100 resumes, knocked on doors and interviewed like crazy but always got the call encouraging me to try again in the future. The competition was fierce for jobs with decent pay and it seemed for every job there was 10 well qualified individuals applying. I turned to what I love, wood. The rest of the story I am sure you already know. We are still trying to write the end and I hope it is a good one for my family's sake.

God bless and thanks to everyone for the great advice.

Jerry


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## ShopCat (Aug 7, 2008)

Jerry,

Life's a mosaic, and there are no rules, we assemble it in pieces and the final picture may make sense to only us. Businesses can do everything right and still fail. Others can make many mistakes and succeed. Location, timing, product, and a heck of a lot of personal effort. Personally, I stayed with the state, and retired last year. Kids are through college, pension is okay, mortgage is paid. I did the 'entrepreneur' gig decades ago, and finally went corporate when I worked out exactly what I was making per hour by being independent. Now, decades later, I get another shot. Now when the wolf shows up at the door it's because it's headed to its bed down in the basement; seems the wolf likes a full food bowl and a warm bed too (though it would definitely like it more if the managing cat would cut it some slack).

Keep your hand in. Build your business when you can. Based on what you've said I don't see you ready for prime time yet. No where in any of your posts do I read anything about a Business Plan. You need one and no bank, especially now, is going to talk to you unless you have a good one. No where did you post anything about your actual profit margin. Do you know it? To generate 30K in net at 10% margin requires 300K in gross. What are you doing about liability insurance? Does your homeowner's policy cover business losses if your shop burns down? Is your shop in an area zoned for business or is the county/city going to show up one day in the middle of a big job and shut you down? I recall that Texas doesn't have an income tax, but the U.S. definitely does, and they and their systems get better every day at turning up the last stray nickel. Got good books that will survive an audit? This latest crisis is going to make the IRS much more aggressive as the country looks for money, including checking sales records at building supply providers. Disability insurance? What happens if you get in a car accident and can't work (happened to a neighbor - custom home builder), a few months later the IRS disallowed a slew of business deductions. Using finishing products? OSHA/EPA rules for businesses are different than for individuals, sometimes for the same product/process.

Dedicating your future to a construction based industry in the middle of a global economic crisis that will linger for most of this decade may not be the best idea you will come up with. Twenty years from now people will still be remodeling their kitchens, take your time, do it right. The odd job may bring some cash and will teach you as much as any full time gig. Woodworking tools and techniques don't seem to change as fast as in some other fields, so learning new things can pay off years later. Spend time (and all your available money) on your kids. You're going to have to anyway, but making them the focus now will save you much grief later.

Do I regret not taking my shot? I suppose I did at varying points, but now that I am retired, I don't regret my decisions. My life has been full of many good things, and sacrificing my interest for my family's well-being paid incalculable dividends, and in the end, I get to to take my shot anyway. Years older, hopefully wiser, and I get to enjoy my work, my customer, and my peers in a way that I wouldn't if I was sweating my next sale.

Your partner, though she might not say it, likes the fact she can take her kids to the doctor when they get sick. Some of your neighbors may not have that option. Colorado (and parts of Texas as I recall) went through some bad times in the 80's that even the current mess hasn't quite managed to equal. On more than a couple of occasions, mine quietly gave a pack of spaghetti and sauce to her friends that didn't quite know how they were going to feed their family that night. Don't get yourself there.


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## ShopCat (Aug 7, 2008)

The state of Texas Dept of Labor and Employment (Colorado eqiv) probably has an economist that thinks about your situation for your area. I hunted ours down and picked their brain, and came away far smarter for it.

What you described is a form that works across much of the country, although it is typically the wife that has the job with benefits, and the husband that has the business. Like I said, a mosaic.

Pay attention to the tax thing. I worked for the Colo Dept of Revenue developing systems. They had a small unit dedicated to hunting for non-filers. Common snare was to google say plumbers in Pitkin county, and then compare it with the tax paying businesses in PitCo. That was a small effort, but the capability to do stuff like that is growing rapidly. Every year they have a national conference and compare notes. I personally worked on a system that was going to change the way we did data exchange with the Feds from a tape we received quarterly, to an online data exchange we did nightly. Across the country the states are replacing their old home grown systems with a package that is incredibly sophisticated. In the middle of this meltdown, with the state grubbing for pennies and laying off people, that project remains fully funded.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks a lot ShopCat. That all sounds like very sound advice. I hope to continue to learn in this business quest. My wife happens to do this stuff because she either "A" does not want to work outside of the home and prefers to be around her girls and also "B" she only has a H.S. Diploma and does not feel she would demand more then say 10.00 per hour and all of her experience is in the fast food industry. I have spoken to her about her getting a job in food services with the school system but I really do not see a glow in her eye or excitement within her when we speak about that. She does seem very content to run a shaper and build a wall unit or kitchen, go figure. Speaking of Shaper, I need to buy a power feeder within the next 6 months before she or I loose a finger. I just do not have 1000.00 to shell out for that right now so I am praying for a good deal on CL.

Oh, and I am trying to stay honest with the IRS, I figure if I can stay clean there I should be ok. I just hope I don't owe too much this year and hope to be able to deduct most of our profits because our shop was in our home all last year making most of that overhead deductable. So it will be off to the tax man in the next week or so.


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## hinklephil (Feb 4, 2010)

HI Jerry,

You have read lots of advise and they all make alot of sense. Comes down to one thing. Are you willing to make a jump into the unknown. I did it and even though I have had some lean months this past year, I don't regret it. There are no exact answers. My best peice of advise is spend the money for an accoutant. I pay $75.00 per month and my guy keeps all my books, balances my bank account, prepares a profit and loss statement and helps with state board of equalization, and taxes. I have had issues years ago with the IRS and I never want them after me again. $75.00 a month is money well spent. Good luck.


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