# PVC pipe for compressed air



## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

I know this topic has been brought up many times in the past on this and other forums. The bottom line has always been; CAUTION, PVC pipe should never be used for compressed air. There are some who have ignored this and use it with no problems.

I have two ideas about this. 1. There are high pressure air systems(>135PSI) and medium pressure (m in the hospital.


----------



## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

I have used PVC for year with no problem


----------



## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

I went back and reposted this thread. Somehow, it didn't appear in it's entirety.

I know this topic has been brought up many times in the past on this and other forums. The bottom line has always been; CAUTION, PVC pipe should never be used for compressed air. There are some who have ignored this and use it with no problems.

I have two ideas about this. 1. There are high pressure air systems(>135PSI) and medium pressure (m in the hospital.


----------



## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

schedule 40 seems to work OK
for most shop compressors
as most don't go past 120lb's

just have a pressure gauge at the start
(water traps need to be further down the line
as the air needs to cool some first
to turn from condensation to water)
to keep the incoming air from fluctuating
when the compressor goes thru its start-up cycle

any pressure changes can be done at the end of a run
with a water trap there too if needed

a simple T before the regulator dropping down 
(6"-10"_with a valve to drain works good too)


----------



## BArnold (May 20, 2013)

I considered PVC for about 150' of air piping in my shop, but decided to bite the bullet and use Type M copper throughout. I know some people use PVC successfully, but I didn't want to take a chance.


----------



## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

.


----------



## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

I have two ideas about this. 1. There are high pressure air systems(>135PSI) and medium pressure ( wide filament tape. The objection to PVC pipe has been if you bang into it, the pipe will shatter and project sharp shards of plastic. I think the filament tape would prevent this from happening. What do you think? I like the idea of PVC as it is so easy to work with and inexpensive.


----------



## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

Something is amiss here. Part of my thread doesn't appear. The part missing is about spirall wrapping PVC pipe and fittings with firerglass reinforced filament tape.


----------



## REO (Sep 20, 2012)

the best solution I have seen for air supply piping is PEX. fast, cheap, it doesent shatter and takes impact very well.


----------



## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

Absolutely not. The problem with PVC is that when it fails, it splinters. Very dangerous to use in a pressurized situation like that. You guys can do what you want, but I never will use PVC.


----------



## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

I'm not positive about this but I think that PVC piping for compressed air will fail to meet code for fire inspection in a commercial building. PVC melts and in the event of a fire there's a good chance that it will become an excellent source of oxygen to feed the blaze.


----------



## Biff (Nov 19, 2012)

I've used PVC in my shops, current system has been in place over 10 years. I wouldn't use it if it was ever subjected to freezing temps consistently because it seems to make it brittle.

Yes, I understand the splinter possibility. No, I don't worry about it feeding a fire. You could apply that same theory to sweated copper lines, the heat could raise to a temp that would melt the solder and the joint could separate. Of course, the pressure relief probably would have gone off or the tank ruptured by then. Oh yeah, those cans of aerosol solvent already would have BLEVE'd as well.


----------



## ajshobby (Jan 30, 2012)

Mainly the reason you should not use PVC piping for compressed air systems is mainly due to the fact that PVC becomes very brittle over time. If the PVC pipe is exposed to direct sunlight it will deterioate faster as most PVC pipe does not have any type of UV protection. Schedule 40 or even schedule 80 cpvc will just delay the eventual breakdown. That is why even the national plumbing code does not approve PVC for air systems


----------



## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

I believe this has been discussed thoroughly in the past so you might also look for that post. I also think there is information about this on the internet. I remember that PVC becomes brittle because of the oil in the air from the compressor. In the other post there were a couple of guys that had been involved in this stuff exploding. One of them was in a drafting room and a large line ran near the feet of some of the workers. I will say that I have a friend that has used PVC for air for about 30 years now. As far as I know, he has never had a leak of any kind. He uses 180 PSI in his machine shop. He has a small metal building that probably freezes on most winter nights. He heats with wood in the daytime. I think he always warmed the air before he started his compressor. He turned the air off every night with a valve at the air tank. In the mornings he warmed the air and then started things. With all that said I decided I didn't want it in my shop. I do think I will use PEX. I have another friend with a machine shop that has had PEX for about 4 years now and it seems to be good. I have read of no reason I shouldn't use PEX. Look for that other discussion and see what you can learn from it before you plumb up with PVC. I would also encourage you to look for a study on the internet about this. 
I found this right away. http://www.lni.wa.gov/Safety/Basics/HazAlerts/902.asp


----------



## shawnmasterson (Jan 24, 2013)

I used 3/4" pex main with 1/2" pex drops. I says right on the pipe that its good for 145 psi. Pvc/Cpvc makes me nervous as it ages. Try to cut an old pvc water line the stuff gets brittle and shatters.


----------



## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

Considering a PVC pipe fitting manufacturer specifically states not to use it, I'll take it from them.

http://www.lascofittings.com/supportcenter/compressedair.asp


----------



## hydro (Aug 9, 2013)

Using rigid PVC pipe of any type for compressed air lines is just asking for trouble. Sort of like not wearing a seat belt…it always worked before so why change now?

I work in the compressed air distribution business and sell products designed to distribute compressed air safely and effectively. I see PVC pipe all too often is shops and most say that they have blowouts every so often, but will not spend the cash to upgrade to a safe system. The options for safe distribution systems today are black iron pipe (nasty rusty air, expensive to install/modify), sweat soldered copper ($$$$$), and aluminum modular systems which are the direction the industry is going. There are also some "push to connect" systems that use polymer tubing for smaller systems with diameters up to ¾".

For a home shop or a non-commercial installation there are no regulations that I know of, but for a commercial (Business) installation PVC air lines are subject to fines if found by OSHA, the first fine when the find it, another a week or so later if it has not been replaced and so on. Here is the document:


----------



## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

sometimes… the cheap/easy solution ends up being quite costly/hard. when the risk is considerate, and everyone (including mfg.) are advocating AGAINST using PVC I just don't get why people are so stubborn about using it anyway.

unless….. you are living in a location where nothing else BUT PVC is available - in which case, I would say, use it, but know the risks, and prepare to maintain it properly.

there are other available solutions which are just as easy (if not more) to work with than PVC like PEX (I personally don't find PVC "all that easy to work with" compare to other solutions) and are actually designed for this type of application. If it was up to me, I'd use one of those. but then again, to each their own.


----------



## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

For what it's worth, I have indeed seen PVC used in compressed air systems, and I have seen it blow out. 150PSI held in the line, minor bump to the line and it came blowing apart. Not catastrophic, but it could have been…

It has risks I am simply unwilling to take.


----------



## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

I think it'll work great, until it doesn't… ;^) It may NEVER fail, but all it takes is a section getting brittle due to UV, ozone, or some other chemical fume contact, and some accidental physical contact or vibration stress to let it rip.

I don't know what there is to gain by taking the chance, when there are so many reasonably priced and easy to install alternatives to PVC. Personally, I plumbed with Goodyear air hose… It was cheap, super easy to install, works great, and I know it's safe. We did two good-sized bicycle shops the same way. I only run nail guns, blow guns, inflators, the occasional impact driver, and small touch-up guns, one at a time in a solo shop, so the hose in the ceiling works well.

If you really need additional capacity, install a single copper or iron trunk, and go from there. If you need THAT much capacity, you're probably also subject to OSHA or local codes, so PVC might be a non-starter from the get-go.


----------



## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

That's why I'm going to wrap the PVC with filament tape. Heck even duct tape would work. If it blows, the tape will keep the shards from flying. I thought about PEX, but the fittings and tools are very expensive. Copper is expensive and black iron pipe is hard to work with and rust accumulates inside. The only other option is nylon reinforced tubing. I now use rubber air hose for my installation, but want to try the tape reinforced PVC thing. The only thing I use air for is nail guns and tire inflation.
With a shop full of dangerous tools, PVC pipe exploding is not one of my big time worries. After all, the pipe runs are high up on the ceiling and pretty far away from a persons face. You would have to be right on top of it to get injured. This is a home shop, not a commercial business.
My philsophy is: it may never fail until it does. Thats the same as driving a car. I may never have an accident until I do. Remember: my grandmother was a two pack a day smoker and she lived into her 90's. She just died of old age. Sometimes you take a chance, but if you don't, you never will.


----------



## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

I still wouldn't risk it. Run a rubber air hose and walk it from tool to tool until you save up enough for proper tubing.

When you do a google search and find many many reports of it exploding and injuring people, it probably means you shouldn't use it.


----------



## LakeLover (Feb 2, 2013)

I used like Cessna. Buy a big roll in bulk, cheap like rocks. Easy to work with This is when PEX was first out and still $$. 16 years later and still fine.


----------



## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

I never heard of PEX tubing until this morning.


----------



## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

50 Cents a foot, including two free connectors… Cut the hose and add $3 Tee connectors wherever you want them. You can even do this easily after the fact, years later.

BTW… I used PEX to plumb irrigation in my wife's hard to reach window boxes and garden features. The only tool you need that you don't already have as a woodworker is a crimper. I picked up a hinged die-style version for $25 that I squeezed in a vise to close. It worked great. I didn't find the crimp fittings any more expensive than PVC primer and glue, and the PEX was easy to cut with a shop knife.

Don't forget, decent tape is not cheap, and that's a lot of wrapping effort… Filament and cloth duct tape also ages poorly. It will look pretty nasty and start to fall off in a few years.


----------



## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Wrapping PVC pipe with tape is a bad idea.
MY PVC pipe is in the attic under the insulation, even if t breaks it present no safety risk to me.


----------



## rustfever (May 3, 2009)

used PVC for 20 years, Never a problem


----------



## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

PEX is Cross Linked Polyethylene tubing. It comes in 20 ft. pieces or longer rolls. It was designed to use in heating floors so it expands and contracts at the same rate as concrete. It is used in upper scale homes across the nation. You can get Shark fittings. These slide on the PEX and tighten or you can get crimp bands for a very reasonable rate. You can buy the crimp tool for about $50 for the cheaper tools or they are available to rent for about $25 a day. Compare the cost to PVC before you install anything.


----------



## PineChopper (May 21, 2012)

I haven't had a problem with Schedule 40 and there is a reason for that.
Max operating pressure is 289psi and minimum burst pressure is 1540 psi.
This is for 3/4" pipe.


----------



## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

Pine, I think the compressor oil that will find its way into the system causes the PVC to harden causing the shattering as mentioned by others. Nail guns pulse and shut off hard causing the shattering. My friend uses PVC in his machine shop and has had no problems but it isn't recommended and has apparently been a problem for some people in the past. That is causing me to back off for a second look.


----------



## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

OK, you guys. I just got off the phone with PEC Supply. I asked if it could be used with compressed air and the answer was: "We do not recommend it." Checking the specs for PEX; it is pressure tested to 180° @ 100 PSI and 73.4° at 160 PSI. There are products that can be used for compressed air. One is called RAPIDAIR and costs $99.00 for a 100 ft kit which includesmanifolds and outlets. It uses nylon tube. The other product is called TRANSAIR which is an aluminum pipe. It is rated @188PSI -4°F to 140°F and 232 PSI -4°F to 115°F.

Although users claim PEX won't shatter like PVC, but it has to be protected from direct sunlight or it will deteoriate rapidly.

I was almost convinced to go with PEX until I did my research. The best one I see is the RAPIDAIR kit.


----------



## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

Great! I've seen a product very similar to Rapidair used as trailer and industrial control tubing. It looks like great stuff. I may have used it myself, if it was out when I plumbed.

BTW… There are different grades and formulations of PEX, but they may come from different manufacturers. Some are UV stable. I used a UV stable version for the irrigation system I built.


----------



## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

To folks who say they never had a problem with PVC I say you are lucky.
My company installed Schedule 80 PVC for an automotive supplier at their request.
Over 1600 feet of pipe that ranged in size from 1/2" up to 4".
All of it was rated for at least 4 times the actual system pressure.

You ought to see what kind of damage a 4" PVC pipe will cause when it explodes.
If anyone had been standing next to that pipe they could have been killed. Or lost a limb at least.

No sir, no thanks. I will use copper, or schedule 40 steel for any thing over 1".
Under 1" I use copper, steel, PEX or rubber.


----------



## Loco (Aug 11, 2013)

SCH 80 ? That's insane. HA ! and they call *ME* El Loco. I might be crazy but I'm not an idiot !
It's like liquor in a way ! 80=40 but 40=80. 
OK… BRB. I'll go take my medication now.


----------



## MarkwithaK (Sep 12, 2009)

I'm not 100% certain what your beef with PEX is. I mean I don't know about yours but my shop is indoors and therefor any PEX lines wouldn't be exposed to direct sunlight. By that same accord PVC will be effected by sunlight, as well as high temps and low temps as well. PVC can/will shatter where as PEX will not. As for the PEX fittings I have used the push on fitting and found them to be excellent. The brass ones are pricey but there plastic counterparts are cost effective.

Personally I'm a copper pipe type of guy but I would have no qualms at all about using PEX for compressed air….but I would NOT even attempt PVC.


----------



## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Thank you El Loco for calling me an idiot.

I can send you several thousand pages of industrial specifications where Schedule 80 PVC pipe and fittings are required, if you would like.

My point is that if a Schedule 80 pipe, which is much heavier and thicker than Schedule 40, can blow up and throw shrapnel across a plant, why take a chance on the thin stuff. The pressure rating is not the issue. 
Here is a chart of the pressure ratings:









The issue is DEFECTS and DEGRADATION HAPPEN. When there is a defect in a piece of PVC pipe or a fitting or the material becomes degraded due to chemicals or UV or what ever, it* does not* just crack or split and let the pressure fizzle out. It fails catastrophically sending chunks of sharp edged plastic flying in all directions. Chunks of the 4" line I referred to earlier hit a bar joist, 20 feet away, with enough force to bend the 2" steel angle iron.


----------



## ruel24 (Feb 14, 2012)

As a plumber/pipefitter, let me add my $.02… I wouldn't run an air line in PVC or PEX. PVC has the possibility of shattering because of age or just the flimsiness of it. You risk breaking it if you turn off a stubborn valve, for instance, even if it's secured well. Compressed gases are potential bombs with lots of shrapnel… I once put a copper line under a test and a cap blew off at 50 lbs. and it made a loud enough noise to make me jump 5 ft. back and rang my ear. Not to mention the cap blew around like a pinball, never to be found again. I'm glad no one was in the path of that projectile!!! I once built a lazy river and had a PVC line under a 20 lb. test and a guy dropped a concrete form on the pipe. It blew, sending pieces of plastic and gravel into the air and into his face! He was taken to the hospital… Imagine what would have happened if that was at 120 lbs… As far as PEX, the push on fittings become restrictive. It's not that the pipe itself is a problem, but the restrictions, to me, are.The push in fittings' orifices aren't as big as the pipe I.D. on barbed fittings. Again, you're dealing with something rather flimsy, so there is potential for something to come apart with use and that could be catastrophic.

I've always run compressed air with threaded schedule 40 steel. It's not that expensive, and your local home store can thread it for you in any length you want. It's, by far, the safest and best choice. If there is any leak at all, nothing will fly off because of the threads. Also, steel isn't going to shatter. Tape and dope your threads, and don't hammer them down. If you over-tighten, they'll leak because you spread the fitting in doing so. I've gotten the fittings much cheaper at a plumbing supply store with my trade discount. I got 2" unions for 1/2 the price compared to Home Depot's price and got better quality fittings, too.

I can't, for the life of me, understand why any of you would need 4" pipe to run a compressed air line? Could someone enlighten me? To increase the tank's capacity? It's the only reason I could think of. I've only run compressed air lines that big in enormous plants that have very long runs and need to cut down on the friction for the run length and are being fed by very large commercial compressors that dwarf what you would ever have in your house. Your home shop shouldn't need anything more than 1-1/2 inch pipe for longer runs only.


----------



## hydro (Aug 9, 2013)

I want to throw a couple more things in here. First, I work for Prevost, a manufacturer of aluminum compressed air line products, and I do distribution management and training where I work with folks who sell and install air systems, so I have some experience with what is out there, what works well, and what does not. My customers range from small one man shops to large 100HP + industrial applications. I will try to be objective here so bear with me.

For distribution of compressed air there are several systems, each with advantages and disadvantages. The most common are black iron (threaded steel), copper, aluminum modular systems, polyurethane/nylon "push to connect", PVC and PEX.

*First and foremost- NEVER use PVC for compressed gas of any sort.* It is illegal (OSHA) and dangerous. PEX may also fall into this category unless the manufacturer specifically recommends it for compressed air. You are on your own with that one.

Historically, black iron systems were common and there are many installed out there. Initially the cost of pipe looks good, but unless you have tools and skill in installing threaded fittings without leakage, the installed cost is rather high. I see this system decreasing in popularity due to some very negative side effects, primarily internal rust and leaking fittings. All iron pipe systems have rust and it goes through your tools and finish equipment unless you take expensive steps to filter it out. Leakage is also an issue and most DIY installations are plagued with this. Leaking air is very expensive considering the electrical costs of compressing it.

Copper saw a lot of popularity a few years back due to ease of installation and component availability. In the last few years copper has become extremely expensive as a material and that has reduced its popularity in industrial applications. It's inherent corrosion resistance makes it a cleaner system than iron, but the installed cost is still quite high.

For smaller shops where the air SCFM is low, there are systems that use polyurethane or nylon flexible tubing and push to connect fittings. This is a nice solution and comes in diameters up to ¾", and it is available through RapidAir Systems. For a small shop with a 3HP or smaller compressor this is a nice solution.

The system that is increasing in popularity and has the best ease of installation, ease of modification, lack of corrosion issues and a moderate installed cost is the modular aluminum pipe. Commonly referred to as "Blue Pipe" it is offered by companies such as Prevost, RapidAir, Transair and private labeled by others. Here is how it goes together (All available systems are similar in concept):










The beauty of this product is the ease of installation and the clean air that it delivers. The pipe comes in 6 meter lengths and is cut by hand with a tubing cutter. All of the available systems are similar in installation, but follow the instructions provided to ensure a good installation. The fittings are designed to slip onto the tube and use an o-ring/grip ring to hold the tube and create the seal. It is very easy to work with and install. The fittings can be removed easily and re-used if the system is to be modified. The cost of materials is less than copper, and the total installed cost is less than iron (when the installation is contracted out).

Advantages of the aluminum pipe system are:
1. Ease of installation with common hand tools.
2. Corrosion resistance- no rusty crud to filter out or to get into your tools.
3. Easy to modify or to add air drops in the future.
4. Easy to create leak free joints.

Here is a link to a short video showing how the product works: Prevost ALR System

So in conclusion, when designing a compressed air distribution system, do your homework, Don't try to cut cost and take dangerous shortcuts, and do it right the first time!


----------



## ssnvet (Jan 10, 2012)

All our shops at work are plummed with copper, but the next planned building I think I'll mention to my boss the newer options.

wrt. PEX, there is chemically cross linked PE and there is electrical field cross linked PE. I was always under the impression that the key benefit of PEX was that it does not absorb oxygen and get brittle.

I hemmed and hawed about what to do in my small ~400 sf basement hobby shop and finally, I simply ran two rubber air hose lines, with a filter/seperator at the end of each one.

Easy, cheesey and very low cost.


----------



## REO (Sep 20, 2012)

Just a side note and my opinion. OSHA Like the DNR wields way to much power. Just as it is not possible to legislate morality it is not possible to legislate ones safety. The safest working condition is one where there is no work being performed.

Any chosen system can fail whether plastic, aluminum, steel, or rubber. I myself have not seen a plastic system fail. I have seen a sched 80 steel system fail where the seam on the pipe was on the bottom and the seam (weakened from condensate) finally gave way at 125 psi. No one got hurt but the floor was cleaner than it had been for quite a while. I have also seen a rubber hose rupture run behind a chemical wash tank whip like an angry snake. I am sure we have all seen a fitting come loose unexpectedly. I would not use PVC because of the potential of injury from flying debris and its easily damaged from impact in comparison to all the other systems mentioned. I use sched 40 and copper for industrial installs because they pay for it and my time to install. It is also rated and endorsed by the industry. For friends and myself I have used PEX in either the standard or the O2 barrier type because it is by far the least expensive, remains clean, wont degrade from moisture or chemicals found in air lube systems, is easily modified. Takes far fewer restraint points than a rubber line to be safe from whip if the line should rupture. 1/2" line is 20 cents a foot 3/4 line is 28 cents a foot crimp fittings run less than iron or steel for the most part. It is much easier to run and takes much less time.
The OP wanted opinions I guess.
Weigh in the amount of money you want to spend, material and availability, your skills, your degree of desired safety. unless you are a business of more than 10 employees it is not illegal for you to use pvc. 
Remember that OSHA expects you to do air monitoring, wear safety harness, retrieval equipment, and have an attendant to "legally" put your hand inside the doorway of your closet.


----------



## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

Following is an E-mail message I received re: PEX.

[email protected] Ronald,
None of the PEX we carry is rated for use with compressed air, so we would not recommend it.

On 8/20/2013 4:18 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> Customer Name: Ronald Seto

> Question: Can PEX be used with compressed air systems? 
-Tom
PexSupply.com

To: markwithak,reo,cessnapilotbarry, grandpa and mainiacmatt; please reread post #31.

Thank you hydro, for your obvious expertise in this topic. I guess, we are always trying to take short cuts to save money and'or time. Based on my own research and your recommendations, I plan to switch to the "Rapidair" system. I think it is the most cost effective approved system for small air users. At $99.00, you are provided with a manifold kit, 2 outlets and 100' of 1/2" tubing. Additional manifolds, outlets and fittings are available for a very reasonable price. Most do not know about this because it is not sold in the usual big box stores. If it was, I'm sure they would sell well.

I think the jury is finally in and PVC lost


----------



## REO (Sep 20, 2012)

(chuckling) I guess I didn't expect a reprimand for my opinion. You asked for mine. Its a little to late for yours to affect me, my system has been in place for several years in the walls and over the ceiling.


----------



## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

The only problem I have with the rapid air system is the fittings and distribution blocks at the drops. The kit they sell for $100 give you 2 of these and more cost about as much as another starter kit. They are out of line on these. That drives the cost back up to the cost of steel. I keep thinking they will come around but so far….no cigar.


----------



## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

Grandpa, I think for most small shops, one $100 kit will be enough. An additional outle costs $27.99; straight fittings cost $4.99; union elbow fittings are $3.99 and tee fittings are $4.99. The kit comes with all the fittings needed for 2 outlets. These prices are from the latest copy of the Northern Tool catalog. I think the ease of putting together this system is much less labor intensive than any other system. Pex is cost effective, but as noted elsewhere, NOT APPROVED FOR COMPRESSED AIR. PVC has totally been removed from my mind as a compressed air system. To me, that only leaves RAPIDAIR as a good combination between ease of installation and cost.


----------



## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

Reo, Not intended to be a reprimand. I did say "please".


----------



## fredj (Jun 4, 2013)

I have not looked at every response on here I would think that some would have pointed this out. If you have a fire in your shop (a nightmare) and the PVC ignites, you have a flame thrower in you shop. A business of any size will in most locals have to have an overhead sprinkler system. Home shops tend not to. A plant here with PVC air lines burned to the ground. The owner rebuilt with iron pipes, he said the PVC air lines were a major cause of the total loss.


----------



## mantwi (Mar 17, 2013)

If I used plastic it would be Pex or a similar product. It's cheap at about $25.00 per 100' and tough. Best of all it will not rupture, it may swell if too much pressure is put on it but will return to it's original size when it's let off. It can be heated to soften it, threaded on a coupling and will seal itself airtight when it cools. Remarkable stuff. There's an outfit that markets kits specifically for this purpose under a name that escapes me for now. Google it, it's out there but I'd make up my own. The kits are way too high.


----------



## PineChopper (May 21, 2012)

At the moment, my shop is in my garage. I'm using the same rubber hose that I was using 40 years ago. It gets leaks near the quick disconnects and has to be repaired every now and then. I've also dropped metal objects on it and twice now have cut it in half. No injuries except to my time schedule.
Grandpa, you may be right. I was a roofing contractor when I got the air hose originally.
I was also an auto mechanic for 15 years and most shops I worked at used PVP with no problems.


----------



## Christophret (Dec 2, 2012)

PVC air lines = too cheap or lazy to run real black pipe airlines.
Probably the latter.

Besides PVC is for sewer drains…


----------



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Coming up next: *Do I ground, or NOT ground, my dust extraction system….???.*


----------



## ruel24 (Feb 14, 2012)

REO, you do realize that OSHA came about because of employers' reluctance to safeguard their employees and that many of the rules of OSHA came about because people got seriously hurt or died, don't you? It's not by accident that the government stepped in. I'm in construction and I thank heavens there is an OSHA. Falls from heights. cave-in in trenches, and confined space deaths are a cold reality in my business, and despite OSHA rules, I've seen locally where companies didn't abide by the rules and people died as a result - one the son of someone I know (and the company was found negligible). The company is many times at fault, but occasionally, worker stubbornness causes accidents, too. Many times the workers simply don't know any better. Too often, you'll find an employee or a foreman looking to make a name for himself/herself and they don't practice safety at all, looking to get the job done faster/cheaper. This is a recipe for disaster. Again, at least I find there are guidelines and possible enforcement of those guidelines. Before OSHA, we accepted a certain amount of deaths on projects as acceptable. ZERO deaths are acceptable, these days. The tide is turning, now, as many general contractors are looking to keep insurance costs to a minimum and their OSHA 300 card empty to improve their chances at winning more work bids. However, they've begun to use "safety" as a way to fire you so that you have a harder time collecting unemployment. Just put your foot in the wrong place while a safety guy is watching, and you're gone. I watched 3 men drift a piece of 12" stainless piping into place while 5 people part of a 3rd party safety crew watched their every move, hoping to find one of them slip up so they could fire them. This is what it has come to.


----------



## lathu (Aug 8, 2013)

Me too.I had used many year in PVC.It's very best.Its very strong.


----------



## REO (Sep 20, 2012)

ruel I am verey familiar with OSHA and its regulations. I am very safety concious and concerned about others safety as well. Right now the company i am working for is going through confined spaces and the regulations concerning them. I have been on OSHA compliance teams for three diferent companies. As you have stated it has come to the point that safety is used as a weapon. It is easy to intimidate someone who is not aware of the facts. If taken to the extreem OSHA does consider a closet a confined space. not a permit required but none the less confined space.
I get a little snappy about misquoted regulations and statements when they are used to turn someones opinion into gospel truth.

My intent was not to diminish safety or OSHA.The statement was made that it was illegal to use pvc in ones shop across the board. My statment was made to clear up the misconception that OSHA has any jusisdiction in a private shop of less than 10 employees. Pex-al-pex is certified for compressed air use it is expensive and the construction is diferent but the chemical makeup of the liner and the jacket is plain old pex. the mechanical fastenrs for this are the same and the mechanical connection is still plastic on brass. I have not taken the time to research further because I am satisfied with the system I have, BUT in hunting around years ago my understanding was that there was compressed gas certified pex but although it was a diferent color and had a certification for compressed gas use the composition was the same. the manufacturer could charge more because of the certification. As I said I am not worried about verifying this I am satisfied with the system I have. Just another point to ponder there IS PVC tubing that IS rated for use with compressed gas. Ridgid PVC is not.


----------



## ruel24 (Feb 14, 2012)

Christophret, they make PVC for pressure lines, too. CPVC water lines are nothing but chlorinated PVC, after all, and they usually must be tested to 1-1/2 times the water pressure for the inspector to approve and that means around 80 to 90 lbs., typically. Schedule 80 PVC is another example. It's meant for process piping. But compressed gas is a whole other animal due to its nature. Liquids don't compress like gas does. Also, it's just my opinion, but I don't trust any fitting that snaps on or gets glued/soldered on when it comes to compressed gas. Either use threaded or welded fittings. I've seen too many ProPress and soldered fittings blow off because of a leak and become projectiles when I've put copper lines on test. That can't happen with a welded or threaded fitting. I've seen snap together air lines like those mentioned above, but I still don't trust them. A crowd watched as a man, I know, pulled apart a crimped ProPress fitting off a pipe during a demonstration when the rep claimed that it could never be pulled apart. He wrestled with it awhile, but he got it. That man is nothing compared to 150 lbs. of compressed air pressure. Many companies make products claiming this and that, but in my experience, nothing beats welded or threaded schedule 40 steel pipe for compressed gas. The one lone exception is brazed copper lines. Like a welded steel line, that braze joint will usually survive after the copper gives away.


----------



## CaptainChemical (Jul 30, 2013)

What is difference between PVC and PEX that would make it safer?


----------



## LakeLover (Feb 2, 2013)

James

I'm in Vegas, can someone tell me the odds of it bursting, then give me the odds of it bursting while I'm next to it, then give me the odds that if it burst while I'm next to it that it will kill or maim me.
Like I say, I'm in Vegas, I'll roll the dice.

Just remember when playing Russian Roullette Use a revolver not a semi auto.


----------



## crashn (Aug 26, 2011)

Ok, its settled ten. 
Pex in PVC. 
The PEX carries the pressure, the PVC guards against the elements and sunlight. If the PEX bursts, the PVC will contain it. If I had the money, that is what I would do.

Untill then I will continue to drag the blue rubber hose around.


----------



## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

CaptainChemical, PVC is polyvinyl chloride and PEX is cross linked polyethylene.

Take a piece of PVC pipe a couple of feet long and whack it against a concrete floor real hard.
It will shatter into pieces. If it is very cold it will shatter even more easily.

Now do the same test with a piece of PEX.
It may get scratched but it wont shatter.

I have worked in industrial plants where we had to remove old PVC process piping that was as brittle as glass. You could not even move a pipe a few degrees from where it was laying without it snapping into, usually at the fittings.

It makes no difference to me what you guys use for air lines. Use lead pipe if that turns your crank.


----------



## ruel24 (Feb 14, 2012)

PEX isn't rated for air lines, either. As stated, PEX-Al-PEX is, but it's got an aluminum core that makes it safe. I'm telling you…you guys using this stuff for compressed air lines are playing Russian roulette with your safety… When compressed air goes, it's quite dangerous. That cap I told about that blew had a weak spot in the solder, and when it let go, that air ripped the rest of the cap off and sent it flying. If it can do that kind of damage to soldered copper, I hate to think what would happen to either PEX or PVC under those kinds of pressure, and that cap went flying at a mere 50 lbs. of pressure! Proceed at your own peril…


----------



## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Using PVC pipe for air lines is like going to Las vegas. It just plan gambling. Here's some picture of failed PVC pipe used for air lines. Good luck.


----------



## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Actually, I don't know the pros and cons on this. However, I come from an industrial background and I'm totally biased against using plastic pipe of any kind in a compressed air system. Part of my reasoning is that in a shop environment the various components can be damaged from being hit by careless handling of wood and tools.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


----------



## Christophret (Dec 2, 2012)

Christophret, they make PVC for pressure lines, too

Well, thats mighty fine. They can keep them. I can afford the right materials.
Malleable black iron.


----------



## Howie (May 25, 2010)

"ProPress fitting "--now there is some real junk. (a retired pipefitter and ex state pressure piping inspector)
When you read the label on the PVC it usually states a "psi cwp" that's cold working pressure assumed at 70 degrees.
Now if you have a 100# air line and it happens to be around a heat source (heater, sunny window etc) that 100# will expand …creating a bomb. Helluvawreck made a very good point. Air expands, liquid disappates.
If you are comfortable with what you have suit yourself , but it isn't a very good idea.

BTW, if you really want to know about whether to use PVC for airlines check out ANSI B31.1 which covers pressure piping systems (not plumbing). I assure you it is very informative but dry reading. There you will find not an opinion but hard facts.


----------



## REO (Sep 20, 2012)

IMHO (Just to start this post off on the right foot)
I have never been to Vegas but according to this thread I am a really lucky person. (I know that already, My wife is terrific!) I would happily agree to go with anyone if they want to put up the money to get me there and we can split the profits.
Howie I read the standard years ago when I designed piping for tank farms and boiler projects. As I recall that standard has to do with low pressure steam and high pressure liquids, process piping and such. I don't recall it covering pressurized air or dry gas delivery although some of the standards could be applied indirectly I suppose. 
It isn't surprising but this has become quite a polarizing thread. I guess I am to blame on this one. On my way to being Mini DKV lol. For those of you who think that iron or steel pipe is the only way to go and blame anyone else who doesn't think so is lazy. WHY? Copper, stainless or aluminum, properly installed is every bit as good and possibly superior. In some cases probably over kill. Many have had a system in that they are satisfied with and had no trouble with and others accuse them of being in a sense ignorant. Mrron has started a new thread to determine what makes a person an expert and when to accept their opinion. I guess I cant see why it is so hard to let a person have their opinion most likely ones opinion is not going to change and in fact may harden if challenged. Its like you are trying to tell someone that they so dumb they need advise even from you! This information will get to lots of people that are genuine looking for help in a decision. Often I see posts that come across as "I did it this way and those of you who don't are just dumb" This type of post in many cases is a total waste of time. If you want to truly educate someone explain why.


----------



## Howie (May 25, 2010)

@ REO-"Howie I read the standard years ago when I designed piping for tank farms and boiler projects. As I recall that standard has to do with low pressure steam and high pressure liquids, process piping and such. I don't recall it covering pressurized air or dry gas delivery although some of the standards could be applied indirectly I suppose. "

That (and you) are correct however this standard also covers material selection for various piping systems. It isn't as simple as saying use this material for this material. You have to be able to know how to select the right one. When I took the test for my state liscense it consisted of 35 questions and was open book. They give you 8 hours to complete it and I assure you it will take 8 hours (it also covers welding, and designing a piping system for a particular application). If you are not familiar with the total standard it is almost impossible to pass this test.

For a clean air system copper or stainless steel is still the best materials as you stated.

As I stated if PVC suits someone, fine, their choice but they should be aware that they do have a potential hazardous situation.


----------



## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

On a side note, I went to the Rapidair website and they had a disclaimer that Harbor Freight was selling a similar compressed air system and it was not equal to their system. I tried to find it at HF, but nothing came up.


----------



## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

Well, let me make one more statement or maybe comment. I wouldn't use PVC because I think it isn't a good idea. I have read the things on line about it not being good etc. I was leaning toward the PEX but I am leaning away a bit now. I know a guy that has used it for awhile…..a couple of years I guess, in a machine shop. I also know a guy that has used PVC in a machine shop. The hoses mentioned can also be a hazard. Have you ever been whipped with a loose air hose?? Those can come off a fitting and do that to so they are dangerous. I don't like Rapid air because it is just too expensive for what you get. I am really leaning toward threaded pipe. I would like to ask why no one uses galvanized pipe. I think it is still available and it won't leave rust as badly as the black pipe. tell me the difference…...


----------



## Howie (May 25, 2010)

@grandpa- re:galvanized pipe- Shell Chemical at Belpre Ohio, the original plant compressed air system was installed with galv. pipe. I know because I worked on it. When I worked for a major power company our compressed air was black 
a-106 grade b s/80 and the instrument air system was all B-88 type k copper with sil-flos solder. No plastic was ever used for any air systems.
You make a very good point about the air hose whipping around it could easily kill someone if it hits them in the head or chest.


----------



## shawnmasterson (Jan 24, 2013)

Apollo 1/2-in pex @ lowes I don't know what you were looking at but this is rated higher than the stuff I have. not to many of us run 160 PSI.


----------



## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

Grandpa, I have heard that the galvanizing zinc can flake off and clog air tools or needle valves where used. I think the cost of the Rapidair system far outweighs using steel pipe plus the fittings plus the labor to cut, thread and install. Do you already have the pipe cutter, threading die and two pipe wrenches?


----------



## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

I do have pipe handling tools. I would like to have several drops so I could have air where I need it. My shop is 40 ft. long and 30 ft. wide. I am not ready to install the air today but very soon. Now that you mention it, I think I have heard the galv. flakes off causing problems. It might be easier to filter out than the rusty mess in black pipe though. I think a drip leg with a ball valve to blow the mess out would help.


----------

