# 45 degree miters



## courier1943 (Mar 20, 2019)

cheers all.

i make small boxes and my mitered corners are hit or miss using my table saw or miter saw. is there a router bit tall enough to make 45 degree cuts on 3/4 inch stock. any help would be appreciated by me and my miters.

Walkingscar


----------



## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

Rockler sells a 45 miter jig pretty inexpensive, was on sale the other day. Use that on your table saw with a decent blade and should be good.

https://www.rockler.com/45-degree-miter-sled


----------



## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

Perfect miters are not easy. I think a router would make it even harder. 
Just keep practicing with your best method.
Figure out what your doing wrong and correct it.

Good Luck


----------



## WoodenDreams (Aug 23, 2018)

When I make my small boxes and adult wooden Urns, I use a 'locking miter bit'. https://www.woodstocksupply.com/lock-miter-45-degree-3362-whiteside-machine.html they also have #3360 that cuts up to 1 1/4" thickness. Locking Miter bits are more work to set up, but a stronger box verses a 45 degree miter, more gluing surface, and quick to clamp with 6" or 12" F-clamps…. If I use the table saw to cut the 45 degree angle, I set the blade to the table top using a 'Wixey Digital Angle Gauge' https://www.rockler.com/wixey-digital-angle-gauge-with-backlight make your cuts and use painters tape to clamp the box during glue-up. Also if you sand your box corners round verses leaving a square corner, you'll smooth out some of the imperfection, depending how far your off.


----------



## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> cheers all.
> 
> i make small boxes and my mitered corners are hit or miss using my table saw or miter saw. is there a router bit tall enough to make 45 degree cuts on 3/4 inch stock. any help would be appreciated by me and my miters.
> 
> ...


Rather than tilting my blade and having to reset it, I built a simple sled for miter cuts. It's a very precise 45º and by cutting the pieces about 1/4" over on the width, I can go back and eliminate any tear out that I get.


----------



## wkndwrnch (Nov 30, 2011)

I would like to make a shooting board for miters,I have not done this, but it is on my list to make.Thought I would share


----------



## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

Cutting across wood grain with a TS to make a miter/bevel there is a certain amount of pull as you move the saw through the wood. commonly called creep. On a miter saw it's why they come with a clamping device hardly anyone uses. On either a TS or a miter saw secure the work with a clamp, or at least a rock hard grip so you keep the wood from creeping through the cut.

On both it can give a slight scooped look as you look at the edge line of the cut. Beyond holding the stock still as you make the cut a lot of people find succes with using some PSA sandpaper affixed to the fence on a miter saw, or the face of the miter guage so the stock has something gritty to help hold the stock still.

Some feel, myself included that a thin kerf saw blade will flex as it is making a miter cut, also called deflection. Using a full kerf blade helps that. It could also be a reason for poor miter fit.

Easy to check, without making any saw adjustments cut a few miter corners in some scrap you have clamped down. If all of them are perfect fits, you found your problem.

As mentioned for truing miters to the max, a shooting board is a winner, but you must make sure you set it up at an exact same angle your cut is made at. A sharp plane blade is required as well. If done right it's the worlds best clean up for a mitered corner. The other trick is to use a miter trimmer, but they cost a few bux, and are limited on the size of stock you can use. Shooting corners is simpler, less costly, and about as accurate if set up correctly.


----------



## theart (Nov 18, 2016)

I usually cut mating miters on opposite sides of the blade. With a table saw for example, tilt the blade and cut the ends of the front/back pieces from the right side then cut the ends of the side pieces from the left side. As long as the table on the saw is flat, the joint will be tight and square even if the blade isn't exactly 45 degrees. If the blade is way off, the joint won't run exactly corner to corner but that will still be less noticeable than a gap.


----------



## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I have tried the table saw and router table also with mixed results.

One thing I have learned is that opposite sides must be the same length.

I make my small boxes with a shooting plane and shooting board. For shooting, I use an LN 4_1/2 plane.
I get perfect miter s with thickness of 1/8" to 3/8".


----------



## fivecodys (Dec 2, 2013)

I built the miter sled that Steve Ramsey designed: 




It works very well for me.


----------



## bilyo (May 20, 2015)

> Cutting across wood grain with a TS to make a miter/bevel there is a certain amount of pull as you move the saw through the wood. commonly called creep. On a miter saw it s why they come with a clamping device hardly anyone uses. On either a TS or a miter saw secure the work with a clamp, or at least a rock hard grip so you keep the wood from creeping through the cut.
> 
> - therealSteveN


I agree. Creep is a real problem when cutting miters. In addition to having sandpaper on the miter fence, I always make a first cut not quite to the cut line. Then I come back and make the final cut that requires shaving the remaining "not quite blade width" to the cut line. This pretty much eliminates the creep problem.


----------



## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

I wouldn't want to 2 cut any more than a 1/8' blade forces me to sometimes. To much chance for unequal lengths. Instead I would try them with a clamp attached to your sacrificial fence on your miter gauge holding your stock to be cut tightly. If movement is prohibited, creep has left the buillding.

On miter's for picture frames and such, the one *absolute truth* is that each pair of pieces, sides, or top and bottom must be the EXACT same length, with a 2 cut I think there is opportunity to mess with that.


----------



## bilyo (May 20, 2015)

> I wouldn t want to 2 cut any more than a 1/8 blade forces me to sometimes. To much chance for unequal lengths. Instead I would try them with a clamp attached to your sacrificial fence on your miter gauge holding your stock to be cut tightly. If movement is prohibited, creep has left the buillding.
> 
> On miter s for picture frames and such, the one *absolute truth* is that each pair of pieces, sides, or top and bottom must be the EXACT same length, with a 2 cut I think there is opportunity to mess with that.
> 
> - therealSteveN


With respect, I must differ with your assertion that the "2 cut" could lead to "unequal lengths". By what ever method you choose, there should be only one attempt at making an accurate cut to "the line". In my suggested method, the first cut is a rough preliminary cut solely for the purpose of removing enough material to eliminate or reduce "pull" from the blade before making the final accurate cut. There is no more chance of being inaccurate than with any other method as there is still only one attempt to make the accurate cut to "the line".


----------



## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Hmmm..









Was using this saw the other day….without any problems….Needed to cut a few things at 19 degrees..









Seemed to work just fine….for a cordless Mitersaw…


----------



## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> I built the miter sled that Steve Ramsey designed:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is a very basic miter fence, and for making 4 sides, instead of just 2, it will often fail, as you need sides both exact length, and top and bottom exact also. That requires way too much measuring, and marking to get consistent lengths. Each time you measure and mark something you likely introduce error, this is why a "story stick" is such a well used idea, it offers way less measuring alone.

The sled I am going to post links to below was introduced by Fine Woodworking a while back. IMHO it is the finest, most impressive thing Taunton Press has ever offered the woodworking community for free, usually this gluttonous giant requires payment before something so wonderful is given to you.

For those who require a plan, here it is, gratis from FW

Video by the Drunken Woodworker showing construction, and ease of use.

Video by frames by design, also showing this sled, slightly longer video, but he assembles his frame, note the VNailer he uses. This guy is a pro framer, and he is using this sled to make his cuts. Accuracy is why.

David Picciuto (The Drunken Woodworker) is a hobby, home woodworker guy. He wanted accuracy too.

I will point out to make this sled it requires a lot of accuracy to make it correct. If you make it correctly though, you will never need to measure before cutting frame parts again. All you will need to do is register the rabbet joint you have already cut into the stock, and place that rabbet onto the jig. The jig is raised to allow that rabbet to go under the lip of the jig's long fence, and you come to rest on the point where you have set your locking gauge. So you only need to know the innermost dimension of the frame. IOW the rabbet length.

Essentially you measure and layout this jig, so that you can nail it. Once you nail the jig, the jig nails all of your mitered parts for you. I like using the incra fence, and doing the tape measure like the framer did. I would also mention if it was me, and that was a plastic, or even better metal tape (Lee Valley sells these) I would super glue that tape into the track right after I confirmed I had it exact, so there was no chance of it ever moving. I would keep looking if all I could find was a paper tape though, spend the $$$$ on the LV tapes, they are worth it. I am not absolutely sold that machinist square he used as a fence was more wonderful than a piece of wood you cut into a triangle? Of course you have to cut the triangle true, but if you do, either is going to be able to clamp without movement. I'm calling that a wash.

The biggest upside to this fence over all the others I have seen is the short side is just for starting a miter, hold it tight to the fence, and do it. It's the long side that wins here. Note the length of a frame you can make, and the money cuts are fully supported, rather than flapping around in the air. That's more accuracy right there.

Another Fine Woodworking post about this sled.

Fine Woodworkings own video for this sled


----------



## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

Bandit I earned a paycheck for several years as a Journeyman doing finish carpentry with one of those boxes staring at me every day. I must say though that I now prefer a Ulmia 354 to any of the Stanley boxes I ever used. Sadly it went in the huge tool auction, wish I knew then, what I know now.

I picked one up way back then, and it wasn't near that kind of $$$, but they were already using those thin Japanese blades. Slick, smooth as a babies, and deadly accurate. I used to call my first Stanley Mr Wiggles. A lot of people say ohhhhh Blasphemy. Most of them have tried a Nobex to get to that. Like comparing Hugo's to Bentley's, without the huge price difference.


----------



## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

I don't know if anyone noticed, but the OP was referring to cutting miters for the sides of a box, not a frame…lol Those are two totally different cuts.

As far as miters for frames goes, I don't understand where it gets so complicated. Yes, the opposing legs have to be exactly the same length and, yes, the miters have to be exactly 45º, but there's nothing remotely difficult about achieving that.

As it happens, I just did a mesquite and turquoise frame and mirror for a customer this week. Not only did it have to be perfectly square with flawless miters (she is paying several hundred dollars for the piece), but it had to be of exact dimensions so that the mirror, which is exactly 16 by 24 inches, would drop into a 1/4" rabbet and the outside would be exactly 20 1/2 by 28 1/2 inches.

I use an Incra miter gauge. Mine is so old, there's no model number. The label just says The Miter Gauge by Incra. When it's set square and then moved to 45º, it's exactly 45º. I also use a mitered stop block which pins the board against the fence and sets it for a perfect cut length. It's as easy as cutting the pieces slightly long (1/4" or so), mitering the first end and then turning it and cutting to length.

Here's the miter stop block I'm describing (the piece of cutoff represents the end of the board after the first miter cut):










And, if there's any doubt if the miter joints were perfect, here's one of them (the others are perfect too):


----------



## courier1943 (Mar 20, 2019)

cheers all,

thanks for all the advice. it was very helpful. found out my problem was not using enough clamps. clamp the stop block, clamp the wood, clamp the clamps and make sure the wood is seated properly. i believe what was happening was the wood was raising up a hair when i cut it causing it to be just slightly off. my last box was perfect. top and bottom. anyway, i think the problem is solved.

walkingscar


----------



## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> cheers all,
> 
> thanks for all the advice. it was very helpful. found out my problem was not using enough clamps. clamp the stop block, clamp the wood, clamp the clamps and make sure the wood is seated properly. i believe what was happening was the wood was raising up a hair when i cut it causing it to be just slightly off. my last box was perfect. top and bottom. anyway, i think the problem is solved.
> 
> ...


Great news. Thanks for letting us know.


----------



## DavePolaschek (Oct 21, 2016)

FWIW, I've been planning to do a blog entry on shooting miners using a miter jack, with a saw to optionally start, and a plane to finish the miners off. A miter jack is just a big clamp with a 45 degree face to reference to. I find it helps me make darned near perfect miters as long as I hold up my end of the bargain and mark / clamp everything accurately so the opposing sides are the same length.

The video I shot for it shows using a plane to make a long miter. One of eight needed for a box I'm building to hold my gimlet drill bits.


----------

