# Chopping Mortises Mangles Chisel?



## DrPuk2U (Feb 15, 2012)

I am working on a big Holtzapffel style workbench made of Southern Yellow Pine. I finally at the point of chopping out the big mortises for the legs (2.5×5"). I drilled them out with a Forster bits, the chopped out the waste with a 1" chisel. The result was a reasonable mortise, but my chisel ended up mangled. It was very sharp to start with (I have Work-Sharp system). Check out these photos after chopping one mortise:



















Admittedly, I was chopping with a mallet through end grain but it was SYP, not hard maple. Is this to be expected? Or does this suggest I should pay more than $10 for a chisel?  They are "Buck" chisels from Home Despot.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

I'm sad to say, but it's the chisel quality. Good mortise chisels are expensive but they excel for chopping. Start saving, brother


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## BrandonW (Apr 27, 2010)

I'd get new chisels! I've never had that problem, especially in SYP. For pretty cheap, you can get the Narex mortise chisels that work very well for this operation. I used a pair of 1/4" and 1/2" for my mortises in beech, which is much harder than SYP.


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## carguy460 (Jan 3, 2012)

Wow…after one mortice?? I've got a set of cheap chisels and am getting ready to start on a bench build…I wonder if this will happen to me too??


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## rwyoung (Nov 22, 2008)

Regrind the bevel at a steeper angle, try 35 to 37 degrees. Leave the primary bevel at around 25 degrees.

Hollow grinding the primary on a bench grinder will be MUCH faster than trying to use the WS3000 to reform the primary. Pay attention to the metal temperature and quench often. Should take less about 5 minutes or so to reform.

Bench chisels aren't the best choice for chopping mortises. Pairing to clean a side wall, OK but not so much with the wailing and hammering. Narex branded mortise chisels are good, new chisels at reasonable prices. If you expect to make a lot of M&T joinery by hand in the future and expect to be working in smaller dimentions, say 3/8", 5/16", 1/4" mortises, and want new, invest in the LN brand mortise chisels. For a one-off, big-honkin' mortise job like your bench, the Narex are fine. Go with a 35 or slightly higher secondary bevel on the mortise chisels too.

And if you go for vintage, look for the "pig sticker" type and not sash mortise chisels. Socket or tang (pig stickers are tang) construction is fine.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Pigstickers, baby. Check out the Iles chisels too. Vintage pigstickers have gotten ridiculous ($) lately. I collect W. Butchers and consider them clearly my favorite. The steeper bevel angle is very good advice.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

but it's the chisel quality.

I agree with Al about the quality of the steel, but disagree on grinding to a 35º or more. I have Ray Iles mortise chisels and they come ground at 35º with a 20º base grind. It takes forever to chop a mortise this way. The primary bevel compresses the wood too much and you can only reach about the depth of the primary bevel. We are talking about 1/4" or so…. I re ground my chisels to 25º and they are a joy to use, you can make an 1 1/2" mortise in a few minutes. Of course the quality of the steel on the RI chisels is great, so that helps.


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## Ripthorn (Mar 24, 2010)

I had this same problem chopping the mortises for my bench in doug fir. What I did was buy the 7 piece wood handled chisel set from Harbor Freight. I flattened them really well and sharpened them up using the method that (some popular UK woodworker who's name I don't remember right now) showed in a youtube video. It is free hand sharpening where you lift the handle up more as you end the sharpening stroke. This creates almost a domed surface instead of a flat bevel. This creates a higher angle at the tip while reducing the amount of material you actually have to take off. This worked phenomenally for a few reasons: 1) the softer steel did not chip, 2) they sharpened quickly, 3) I could bash on them all I wanted without worrying about hurting anything, 4) the set comes with a 1 1/2" chisel which is great for those big mortises. Now, I'm not saying you have to do it this way, but it worked very well for me, and let me save my nicer chisels for more delicate work.


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## DrPuk2U (Feb 15, 2012)

Thanks folks. Good info. My biggest problem is that I am impatient, Nobody around here (northern Illinois) carries mortise chisels so I'll have to order them online then wait. So I'll probably do that and, in the meantime, re-grind the mangled chisel (at 35 degrees) and try to get the other mortises done.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Sometimes there is some better steel 1/8" or so back from the
edge of a new chisel.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^is that right, Loren? I would have never thought about that. Maybe JGM's right about the bevel angle. I have the Iles too. I liked them pretty well out of the box, but I like them better at 28 degrees. I prefer my Butcher pigstickers at the same angle.


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## Smile_n_Nod (Jan 20, 2011)

I used my 1" Stanley FatMax chisel last weekend to do the exact same thing (chopping mortises, except on a SYP Roubo bench). The steel strike plate stood up just fine to my 20-oz framing hammer, and the chisel showed no damage-on either end. Resharpened nicely, too. I think I bought it at Lowes for $10 or $12.


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

I used a new Stanley Bailey chisel to chop mortises in oak, and didn't have this issue. And (sad to admit) I didn't even sharpen it before I used it… Yeah…

Mortise chisels are on my want list though…


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Hmm. It looks like its just the corners of the chisel effected. Ill assume that youre getting into the rounded corners and the only portion of the chisel doing any work is the very edge. Maybe try squaring up the corners of the mortise with a 1/4" chisel then paring away with the larger 1".


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

@Bertha, I've just read that, perhaps in reference to 
Japan chisels but I think also there's this idea that this
occurs with English chisels like Sorbys too.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^learn something every day


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## MonteCristo (May 29, 2012)

Mortising chisels need a steep bevel, at least 30 degrees, maybe even 35. Try that and if it still trashes the chisel (quickly), it's junk.


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## dkirtley (Mar 11, 2010)

If they are still soft back further, go ahead and re-harden and temper them. What have you got to lose?


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## 12strings (Nov 15, 2011)

Good advice here…but if you are drilling out the bulk of the waste first, you won't want to use a mortise chisel to clean it up…just a good bench chisel.

Side note, I have 2 mortise chisels: 1/4" and 1/2". I picked them up vintage without handles (metal only) and made my own…very economical.


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## RGtools (Feb 18, 2011)

I second JGM on the lowered angle for mortice chisels thing (but only if the steel is very good such as in the Iles)

This is the chisel we are talking about. And while there are other cheaper ones that get the job done, I don't think there are any better ones out there.

The Lie Nielsen comes with great steel too, but I would not get it for bigger mortices because of the socket design (get your chisel stuck once and you will understand).


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

Don't ever buy anything Buck Brothers again - they are total crap now. I don't even think they are HSS.


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## DrPuk2U (Feb 15, 2012)

Thanks for all the feedback. Good advice. I did finally go to Lowe's and bought a set of FatMax Stanley chisels, sharpened them and got the job done without mangling the edges… 

Et voila:


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## Smile_n_Nod (Jan 20, 2011)

Good looking mortises, Ric.

I was pleased with how well the FatMax chisels worked on my SYP bench top. I used a Forstner bit to drill out the mortises, but I also used the chisel for a lot of chopping of end grain and paring of face grain. The 1" chisel stood up to being spanked repeatedly with a hammer, and I only had to sharpen the chisel twice per mortise: once at the beginning and once about half way through when I was performing final tuning on the walls of the mortise. I've never used a "good" (expensive) chisel before, so I have nothing to compare the FatMax chisels against-but I'm happy with them so far.


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