# "Ebonized" wood



## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

I've become fascinated by "ebonized" finishes… I read some things about it, but I'm wondering if anyone here actually does it and can speak from experience..

I've read stories about soaking it with tea first, to build up the tannins…? And how some woods work better than others, etc..

Any of you guys have any secret recipes that you want to share?

Cheers,


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Ive used the tea and steel wool/vinegar on pine. It worked. Works great on oak because of its tannin content. Not sure red or white or both. Not a huge fan of the finish but it works.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Check out this blog entry. There is a video of ebonizing walnut in real time.


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

I'm with Fridge - not a fan of the appearance. The video link was very informative but I certainly wouldn't do it on a nice piece of walnut. It totally obliterated the grain and color of the wood. He may as well have been using sweetgum.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

I've used the vinegar and steel wool (iron oxide) solution a few times with good results but usually just for small pieces or accents (look at my tool drawer pulls and mallet projects for examples). I like it because the natural grain of the wood still comes through.

You'll want to experiment with the wood before you commit. different woods and even different pieces of the same type of wood can yield different results. I've seen different colors including jet black, reddish and even slight green or purplish overtone on various types of wood. When the color wasn't dark enough I've been able to darken the result by applying a really strong tea to the wood first to add some tannin. I've been wanting to try brewing some tea using acorn shells to see how that works, especially for woods with a low tannin level.

EDIT: If you look at my tool drawer project, I posted my technique in one of the responses.


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## EarlS (Dec 21, 2011)

So I'm that guy that ebonizes walnut. I could swear I wrote a blog entry about it but I can't find it. At any rate, ebonizing stain is made with steel wool and vinegar. There are a number of places you can find the recipe and instructions so you don't blow up the bottle from the hydrogen that is generated. The iron and acetic acid react to make iron acetate which is what reacts with the tanins to "ebonize" the wood.

Since tea has tanins in it, you can mix up some extra strong lipton tea and liberally wipe it onto your wood. Let it dry, lightly sand off the dust nubs, then apply the iron acetate. The wood will start darkening immediately. Subsequent applications of tea and iron acetate may darken the wood further.

The tricky part is getting a consistent penetration so the "ebony" looks consistent. The post ebonizing sanding can also remove the ebonized outer layer of wood which means you have to reapply the tea and iron acetate. The most troublesome spots are along edges. Generally, I only sand enough to get the raised grain off and then apply sanding sealer.

I made this desk and it looks amazing. I also ebonized a chair for it. I'm in the process of making an ebonized walnut shelf unit as well.

Ebonizing cherry makes a blotchy dark mess that ruins the look of the cherry. On the other hand, ebonizing white oak brings out the grain and really makes the oak look nice. Sanding the oak removes the ebonized wood from most of the wood but leaves it in the grain recesses.

Hopefully this gives you a little more information.


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## JADobson (Aug 14, 2012)

I've also used black India ink on oak. I liked that look a lot more than the vinegar and steel wool. This project has the result though the pictures aren't as close up as you might like:


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

> I m with Fridge - not a fan of the appearance. The video link was very informative but I certainly wouldn t do it on a nice piece of walnut. It totally obliterated the grain and color of the wood. He may as well have been using sweetgum.
> 
> - ArtMann


Just so you know …... this was quality furniture. The lady was paying for quality wood, not sweet gum and she wanted black. Yes it totally obliterated the colour of the wood as intended, however ebonizing does not obliterate the grain.
She was so pleased that she overpaid me by 25%. Sorry you don't like it.

I'll go have a look at your projects …... oh … you don't have any.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I m with Fridge - not a fan of the appearance. The video link was very informative but I certainly wouldn t do it on a nice piece of walnut. It totally obliterated the grain and color of the wood. He may as well have been using sweetgum.
> 
> - ArtMann
> 
> ...


I like your style, Paul. I guess the critic doesn't realize that starting with a high tannin wood like walnut makes total sense.


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## JADobson (Aug 14, 2012)

> I m with Fridge - not a fan of the appearance. The video link was very informative but I certainly wouldn t do it on a nice piece of walnut. It totally obliterated the grain and color of the wood. He may as well have been using sweetgum.
> 
> - ArtMann
> 
> ...


HA! Awesome.

My comment was confined to oak. Iron acetate works great on walnut.


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## EarlS (Dec 21, 2011)

Paul - I just took a look at your tables - gorgeous. It is always difficult to take pictures that show off the grain of the wood, especially with the ebonized wood you used since there isn't any color variance to highlight the grain.

The top of the ebonized walnut desk I made has crazy grain that still looks good ebonized.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Thanks Earl, 
This was meant to actually resemble Ebony which walnut does very well in this technique. The grain is very subtle as in real ebony but can still be seen.

Very nice desk by the way.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

I wonder if I could ebonize some alder? It would probably be even better than real ebony in my opinion. Since it is the god of woods of course.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I wonder if I could ebonize some alder? It would probably be even better than real ebony in my opinion. Since it is the god of woods of course.
> 
> - TheFridge


Around here alder is known as Ebony del Oro.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

We used to ebonize a lot of alder. About five minutes after it went in the woodstove it was nice and black.
.... or it would have been if I took it out….....


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Paul you son of a bitch… that's how serial killers start off. Burning alder because they think it just like any other wood and next thing you know the police are digging up a dozen bodies from behind their woodshop… where did you go wrong?


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## EarlS (Dec 21, 2011)

I did try to burn/scorch the cutouts on a cherry bathroom vanity and ruined a lot of hard work. It wasn't even decent firewood.

Light colored wood like alder probably would do a lot better with india ink or several coats of ebony stain. I'm with Paul on the best use for alder. For some reason it doesn't work out well for much else. Your results might vary.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)




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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Paul, a sense of humor is a wonderful thing


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

Haven't done it yet, but was looking at this video series to get next, and he shows some multi step home brew ebonizing. I like the way the legs contrast to the top personally.

https://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/the-side-table-bridle-guides/


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

If someone wants to pay you to use expensive wood and then make it unrecognizable, then that is obviously what you should do. Am I not allowed to have my own opinion on how it looked? People say the same thing about painting nice wood all the time and nobody gets bent out of shape over that.

Although you can see lots of photos of stuff I have done imbedded in my text posts, I will not post any photos in the projects section. A member who currently goes by the handle Rick S… or something like that convinced me not to.



> I m with Fridge - not a fan of the appearance. The video link was very informative but I certainly wouldn t do it on a nice piece of walnut. It totally obliterated the grain and color of the wood. He may as well have been using sweetgum.
> 
> - ArtMann
> 
> ...


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Not to belabour the point but she got something that looked as close to real ebony as you can get without spending massive money to buy endangered wood. I'm sorry the pictures aren't clearer but if you saw the tables in person you would understand.
I don't know of any other readily available woods that have the grain structure and tannin content to pull off this illusion.


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

Thanks for all the responses you guys. This thread is an interesting read…

Paul M, those tables are awesome man! I'm sure the pics don't even begin to do justice to them..

Earle S, that computer desk and chair is awesome too! I like that style!

I have some vinegar and steel wool that's been "brewing" for many months now… The only time I ever tried using it, was to make Ash turn grey . It made a nice grey color on solid ash.. But, on Ash plywood, it came out with a greenish tint to it.

I experimented with it on Oak too… Some parts of the Oak took on a very deep purple hue. ... It was an interesting color… But other parts of the same board came out just a little bit grey.. The contrast of color within the same stick was dramatic. It could be cool if used right, but it wasn't right for the project at the time.

I haven't worked with Walnut in many years, so I don't have any scraps around. And Walnut is already so beautiful that it almost seems wrong to Ebonize it… But everything I ever read says it works best on Walnut.

I never tried using tea to accentuate the effect, yet…

But I'm wondering if there are other woods (aside from Walnut) that would be easy to Ebonize.

Also, did anyone ever try adding some black dye to the vinegar mix? Just a thought….


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

> We used to ebonize a lot of alder. About five minutes after it went in the woodstove it was nice and black.
> .... or it would have been if I took it out….....
> 
> - shipwright


LOL! I'm not familiar with Alder, but that was pretty funny!

....There's a website that I like to watch for inspiration, and they sell some crazy expensive stuff! That's where I first heard the word "ebonized".

But, since you mentioned burning it, it reminded me of another finish that they were selling months ago… It was called "triple burned", and it looked great in the pics. I don't know how it was done, but I guess they burned it lightly, and then sanded lightly in between burnings.. It was used on things that were made from big timbers, and the way it refracted the light was beautiful..


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

Makes perfect sense to me when you put it that way. Walnut is getting harder to find and more expensive too and may become as hard to get as ebony at some point. I'm collecting it for future use.



> Not to belabour the point but she got something that looked as close to real ebony as you can get without spending massive money to buy endangered wood. I'm sorry the pictures aren't clearer but if you saw the tables in person you would understand.
> I don't know of any other readily available woods that have the grain structure and tannin content to pull off this illusion.
> 
> - shipwright


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## rcs47 (Oct 31, 2009)

This is a link to a Popular Woodworking article the process.

I saved the link a long time ago thinking I would try it. I used General Finishes black dye because it was so easy.

Good Luck


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

> This is a link to a Popular Woodworking article the process.
> 
> I saved the link a long time ago thinking I would try it. I used General Finishes black dye because it was so easy.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reference Doug… The link you posted went to something about treehouses, but I searched that site and I think I found the article you were referring to.. The article has some good details that I never read about before….

https://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/ebonizing_wood/


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## rcs47 (Oct 31, 2009)

Jim,

Sorry, the ebonizing page was on the screen when I put in the link.


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## EarlS (Dec 21, 2011)

Jim,

I would suggest you try a couple different applications and then put some finish on them and see how they look. If you are going for the ebony (black) look on a light wood you likely will need a stain or dye. Minwax and Varathane both sell ebony stain that has a sealer included which helps with a more uniform black appearance. General Finishes has a water based ebony stain that is just a stain so it will take a lot of coats and light sanding to knock down the grain.

Experimentation is really the only way to get exactly what you want. Let us know how it turns out.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

Learning this about walnut is interesting as I am making walnut winding sticks. I was going to inlay ebony like Paul Sellers did, but now I think I am just going to ebonize the top line of the front stick…


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## GR8HUNTER (Jun 13, 2016)

I had made the mixture of steel wool and vinegar …. but found it very hard to get past the awful smell from it :<((


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

> I had made the mixture of steel wool and vinegar …. but found it very hard to get past the awful smell from it :<((
> 
> - GR8HUNTER


Lol, yeah, it kinda stinks… but, are the fumes actually worse than oil or lacquer fumes?

I actually like the smell of laquer, but I know it's not good…


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

> Jim,
> 
> I would suggest you try a couple different applications and then put some finish on them and see how they look. If you are going for the ebony (black) look on a light wood you likely will need a stain or dye. Minwax and Varathane both sell ebony stain that has a sealer included which helps with a more uniform black appearance. General Finishes has a water based ebony stain that is just a stain so it will take a lot of coats and light sanding to knock down the grain.
> 
> ...


To be honest, Earl, I don't even have a project in mind right now. But I've seen some pics of the ebonized finish that really fascinates me. One day I will try it, but, for now, I'm just trying to learn as much as I can about it.

I've used plain old "gloss black spray paint" (Rustoleum) on Ash plywood, and it came out great! The grain was still clearly visible, and the tone was very even.. It was a cool effect..

But, from what I've seen in pics, this ebonizing thing looks different… It can be finished with just a rubbed oil, and it gives a beautiful "natural" look.

I've used Minwax "Ebony" stain before, and I was never satisfied. I guess it depends what kind of wood; but, with ebony stain, it was tricky to get an even tone over the whole piece… and "more coats" didn't help..


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

I'll bet I could just dampen the wood with mineral spirits, and then spray some black Rustoleum primer on it. Then finish with a rubbed oil, and it would make a similar effect.

But I'm still fascinated by the true "ebonized" finish.

*but I don't want to have to buy walnut to get that look…


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> To be honest, Earl, I don t even have a project in mind right now. But I ve seen some pics of the ebonized finish that really fascinates me. One day I will try it, but, for now, I m just trying to learn as much as I can about it.
> 
> - HammerSmith


That's the way to do it IMO. Spend the time you're not building projects testing finishes. Some will be total failures but you'll learn from that. The value is that down the road when you're ready to finish a piece you'll have a head start on what will or won't work, and a recipe (keep notes) to get there.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I ll bet I could just dampen the wood with mineral spirits, and then spray some black Rustoleum primer on it. Then finish with a rubbed oil, and it would make a similar effect.
> 
> - HammerSmith


In keeping with my last post - give that a try. What do you have to lose? You might find you've discovered something magical.


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

> To be honest, Earl, I don t even have a project in mind right now. But I ve seen some pics of the ebonized finish that really fascinates me. One day I will try it, but, for now, I m just trying to learn as much as I can about it.
> 
> - HammerSmith
> 
> ...


Yeah Rich, I agree… and I love to experiment with stuff too…

But sometimes I waste a lot of time with my experimenting.. I don't like that part so much…

When I was a little kid, my father used to like to say - "A smart man can learn from other peoples mistakes"  So that's why I started this thread in the first place.

In a post above, rcs47 (Doug) led me to the Popular Woodworking article about the process, and I found this part to be particularly interesting;

~*"The Trick: Bark Powder Tea*

Making a tea of the bark powder to saturate the wood did a lot to increase the tannic acid content. Using the bark tea first, then adding a solution of vinegar and iron once the wood had dried, I finally started getting close to the effect I was looking for. It was a bit chalky though, and not the intensity I wanted. Topping it off with another coat of the bark tea made all the difference. The tea completely eliminated the chalky look and the piece became a deep, coal black.

The process of ebonizing this way is pretty straightforward. Soak the wood surface with bark tea, wait until the surface moisture absorbs into the wood, then add the iron solution. Follow up with a bark tea rinse." ~

https://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/ebonizing_wood/


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

...this picture (from the article above) speaks volumes imo…

The Oak and the Walnut is automatic (I guess), but look how it works on Maple!










I gotta try this on a little stump that I have… I don't even know what kind of tree it's from, but I like the idea of being able to add the tannins to anything…


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> But sometimes I waste a lot of time with my experimenting.. I don t like that part so much…
> 
> - HammerSmith


I guess it's a matter of perception. To me, the guy who wasted his time is the one who posts on here about how he did this or that to his three by eight foot dining table and it looks like crap.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

> To be honest, Earl, I don t even have a project in mind right now. But I ve seen some pics of the ebonized finish that really fascinates me. One day I will try it, but, for now, I m just trying to learn as much as I can about it.
> 
> - HammerSmith
> 
> ...


Every time I try that, by the time I get to use it I have forgotten what I did. 
Maybe the "keep notes" is where I go wrong….

Now a days I just shoot from the hip.


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## DustyM (May 16, 2016)

> To be honest, Earl, I don t even have a project in mind right now. But I ve seen some pics of the ebonized finish that really fascinates me. One day I will try it, but, for now, I m just trying to learn as much as I can about it.
> 
> - HammerSmith
> 
> ...


Just about the same here, Jbay, though admittedly I don't have even a fraction of the experience I need to get away with it.

I need to carve "Frequently Wrong, Never In Doubt" into a sign and hang it in my shop


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

> To be honest, Earl, I don t even have a project in mind right now. But I ve seen some pics of the ebonized finish that really fascinates me. One day I will try it, but, for now, I m just trying to learn as much as I can about it.
> 
> - HammerSmith
> 
> ...


LOL Dustin, I kinda like that phrase… even though I'm kinda the opposite… I always doubt everything, and that's why I always get off to a slow start. But, usually, I can finish fast because of the prep and the stressing of the details.

"Fast" is a relative term though… If you count the time I spend in planning a thing, maybe I ain't "fast" at all.. but it's been a while since I ruined anything, so I'll just be thankful for that…

''I am the tortoise"


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

The post made for some interesting reading


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## EarlS (Dec 21, 2011)

I had to chuckle last night when I turned on the local PBS station and Woodsmith Shop was on. They were discussing ebonizing using tea (tannic acid) and iron acetate (vinegar and steel wool). Anyone that wants to see how they did it should be able to find the episode and watch it. The episode was about sanding, staining, and finishing with a lot of good tips and explanations.


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## JADobson (Aug 14, 2012)

For what it's worth I just put two coats of the ebony black aniline dye from Lee Valley and it looks pretty good.


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

> For what it's worth I just put two coats of the ebony black aniline dye from Lee Valley and it looks pretty good.
> 
> - JADobson


What kind of wood?

I never used dye yet… But, with stain, I know that the rings don't accept the color as good as the pulp does.


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

> I had to chuckle last night when I turned on the local PBS station and Woodsmith Shop was on. They were discussing ebonizing using tea (tannic acid) and iron acetate (vinegar and steel wool). Anyone that wants to see how they did it should be able to find the episode and watch it. The episode was about sanding, staining, and finishing with a lot of good tips and explanations.
> 
> - EarlS


Thanks for mentioning that Earl. I never saw that show before, but I set it to record on the DVR…

I looked up the website, but I didn't see a "full episode" of the one you were talking about…


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## JADobson (Aug 14, 2012)

I was dyeing oak (white I think - it came out of a waste bin so not 100% sure)


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## JADobson (Aug 14, 2012)

Here is the frame I dyed black. I put a coat of liming wax over top. Thought it turned out alright.


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## htl (Mar 24, 2015)

> I had made the mixture of steel wool and vinegar …. but found it very hard to get past the awful smell from it :<((
> 
> - GR8HUNTER


I too have made the mixture and use it on some of my model wheels but as it's a water based finish you have to deal with raised grain and on small detailed projects this is no fun.

One other point of interest for some, [maybe?] *Green* poplar is turned into a nice soft brown with this mixture of course the green poplar will turn on it's own with time, at least mine has.


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

I am just about finished making a little enameled hall table out of 30 year old poplar that was given to me. Part of it was a beautiful brown after I planed it but part of it was army green. My point is it doesn't always turn brown from green - at least not in a reasonable amount of time. Maybe it requires sunlight to change.


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

> Here is the frame I dyed black. I put a coat of liming wax over top. Thought it turned out alright.
> 
> - JADobson


That frame looks great! And the look compliments the picture perfectly too, imo.

Thanks for posting the pic, because I was gonna ask about the coverage with the dye… It looks like it doesn't soak into the rings… It's a cool look, but I've seen some "ebonized" things where the color was more even. I don't mean that as a criticism, but it's just something that I want to learn more about. Cheers!


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

> I am just about finished making a little enameled hall table out of 30 year old poplar that was given to me. Part of it was a beautiful brown after I planed it but part of it was army green. My point is it doesn t always turn brown from green - at least not in a reasonable amount of time. *Maybe it requires sunlight to change.*
> 
> - ArtMann


I'm sure sunlight would speed it up a little bit, but I'm also "fairly" sure that sunlight is not required.

Decades ago, I worked on an old house that had poplar jambs in the archways… When we stripped all the old paint off (with chemical stripper), it had a deep "chocolate brown" heart, and the sapwood was still "blonde".

It was a striking effect, and I thought it was a bit too much, but the homeowner liked it so much that we wound up just finishing it with a clear coat.

fwiw, that house was about 125 years old at the time…


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

Does anyone know of a simple way to test a thing, to find out how much tannin it has?

I know tea has tannin, and that's a simple solution, but I want to find a way to make my own tannin.

In one of the posts above, there was a link that talked about some kind of tannin powder that sounds much stronger than just "Lipton Tea".

I did a search to find other foods that have tannin, but it was a frustrating search.

The "Noni" fruit is supposed to have some tannin, and Noni is plentiful around here, so I started a jar of Noni/water and left it sitting in the sun a couple weeks ago. The Noni-water is just starting to get a golden color, so I figure it'll need at least another month.

But if anyone knows a cool trick for testing the tannin content of a thing, or a simple source of strong tannin, I would appreciate it!

I'm guessing that I could just go around with a small bottle of my vinegar brew, and pour it onto various fruits and things to see if they turn black… But if anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears!


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

wow… I just tried the search again, and it turns out that green bananas have tannin in the skin.. The greener the better…

Green bananas are pretty easy to get around here, year round!

I might even have to test the rest of the "tree"... Banana trees only give once. After that, you just cut the whole thing down…

Banana trees are actually "grass", and they grow amazingly fast…


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

Look how cute the baby bananas are..


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

Wow… I just had an epiphany..

Many years ago, I ruined a nice "Japan saw" by using it on a banana tree..

Within a day or two, the whole blade turned black.

I was pissed at the time, but I learned from it too.

And now it looks like it was a blessing in disguise… I'm gonna start a batch of "banana tea" soon… If it works, I'll let you guys know. I think it's gonna work great…


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

When I originally researched ebonizing, I read that quebracho bark powder is often used to make a tea used to add tannin but it seems rather silly to spend that much for what would otherwise be a cheap process. The bark of oaks is also supposed to be very high in tannin as well and you could trying making a tea from that instead. I haven't tried it yet but oak acorns have a pretty high tannin level. Crushed acorns stain my sidewalk pretty severely. You could try brewing a little tea from that.


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## htl (Mar 24, 2015)

Be sure to do some tests as you may not need all the extras, unless your needing dark dark.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

*Lazyman*, if you were to live up to your LJ handle, would you not just ebonize the tannin bearing woods and dye those that don't contain tannin? 
Performing two (more if you start cooking bark) operations where one would suffice makes me doubt the veracity of your claim of laziness. :
;-)


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

> *Lazyman*, if you were to live up to your LJ handle, would you not just ebonize the tannin bearing woods and dye those that don't contain tannin?
> *Performing two (more if you start cooking bark) operations where one would suffice* makes me doubt the veracity of your claim of laziness. :
> ;-)
> 
> - shipwright


heheheh, good point shipwright… (that might fall into the "better than good enough" category;-)

But since you have plenty of experience with this, can you describe the difference in the finished product?

I've seen some hi-resolution pictures where the ebonized wood just looks so natural… I never held it in my own hand though, so I don't know for sure… but it certainly looks different than "stained" wood, (in the pictures at least).

Also, I'm looking for a way to do it on African Mahogany, Redwood, and "old growth" Douglas Fir; because those are plentiful around here as reclaimed lumber.


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

> When I originally researched ebonizing, I read that *quebracho bark powder* is often used to make a tea used to add tannin but it seems rather silly to spend that much for what would otherwise be a cheap process. The bark of oaks is also supposed to be very high in tannin as well and you could trying making a tea from that instead. I haven t tried it yet but oak acorns have a pretty high tannin level. Crushed acorns stain my sidewalk pretty severely. You could try brewing a little tea from that.
> 
> - Lazyman


Thanks Nathan, that bark sounds like the one in the earlier link… iirc, he even used it on maple; and the results looked quite good.

I live in Honolulu nowadays, and we don't really have any Oak trees around here. But, if I still lived in NJ, I would certainly try some Oak bark and acorns…

But we have plenty banana out here. It grows so fast in the rain forest, it's almost a nuisance sometimes. The stumps are hard to remove when they're on rocky soil… They're easy to cut down with a machete, but they grow right back.. It's amazing how fast they grow!

I think these are about 6-8 months old, at most.


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

I saw a story that said green bananas have a lot of tannin, and there are three bunches behind those young ones pictured above.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

> heheheh, good point shipwright… (that might fall into the "better than good enough" category;-)
> 
> But since you have plenty of experience with this, can you describe the difference in the finished product?
> 
> ...


Both dye and ferrous ions will create about the same black. The dye may hide a little more grain but I'm not really sure of that. Basically I like to use iron solution on Walnut because it gives a real Ebony illusion, grain and all.
I also like it on Oak just for the way it looks. On woods that don't have tannin I do use dye.
This old project used black Colour FX dye on Maple.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

> *Lazyman*, if you were to live up to your LJ handle, would you not just ebonize the tannin bearing woods and dye those that don't contain tannin?
> Performing two (more if you start cooking bark) operations where one would suffice makes me doubt the veracity of your claim of laziness. :
> ;-)
> 
> - shipwright


LOL. As I said, I haven't tried it, though I do like to experiment. Next time I'm too lazy to start a new project, perhaps I'll brew up some tea from the bur oak tree in my yard. It's got a thick bark and golf ball sized acorns. The wood also smokes a mean brisket.


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

> heheheh, good point shipwright… (that might fall into the "better than good enough" category;-)
> 
> But since you have plenty of experience with this, can you describe the difference in the finished product?
> 
> ...


Wow! That box is awesome! I just spent a little while trying to figure out how you made that hinge…

I guess you laid the hinge pin into the lid first? That's a slick design, and I hope you don't mind if I copy it one day 

What did you use for a hinge pin? It looks like a wire hanger would work ok, but I'm hoping you'll say it was a 0.120" brass rod…

That marquetry is real nice too. I never even tried to do anything like that.


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

> *Lazyman*, if you were to live up to your LJ handle, would you not just ebonize the tannin bearing woods and dye those that don't contain tannin?
> Performing two (more if you start cooking bark) operations where one would suffice makes me doubt the veracity of your claim of laziness. :
> ;-)
> 
> ...


I have an experiment going right now… Banana trees are like onions, so I peeled off one of the outer laters today, and threw it in bucket. I didn't even have to "make tea", because that one piece gave off enough juice to do the test…

The initial results are looking promising, but the effect is still happening. I'll post some pics later…

When I cut down those green bananas, there's gonna be a lot of thick, gooey, juice… Usually that juice is a nuisance, and I always make sure not to get any of it on my "good" blades.

This time, I'm gonna devise a way to collect that "juice". I'm sure it will be quite potent!


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

preliminary test results…

This is a wash with the juicy water that came out of the banana bucket… I let it soak in for about 20 minutes and then wiped it… then brushed with the vinegar brew… after another 15-20 minutes, wiped again… then washed once more with the "banana juice"... I just smeared it in with my fingers, let it soak in, and then rubbed it lightly with steel wool.


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

from what I understand, this finish should get darker and darker with each new application. ...and I'm sure it will get darker all by itself (after a day or two).

The experiment ain't done yet …


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

Here's the other side of that scrap.. It used to be window trim..

I think it's White Oak


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

In my experience, you get the maximum color change within the first few minutes and on the best candidate woods within seconds. If I don't get the color change or quite the blackness I am looking for quickly, that is when I have applied a strong black tea to it, brewed with just a cheap tea bag and a couple of ounces if boiling water, and reapplied the ebonizing solution which helps but only a little. If it helps, I will then apply the tea before the solution.

Is the banana juice sticky? I would be a little worried that straight juice would leave behind sugary residues that you won't want.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

I kinda like experimenting. I think trying new things is most of the fun in this craft.


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

> In my experience, you get the maximum color change within the first few minutes and on the best candidate woods within seconds. If I don t get the color change or quite the blackness I am looking for quickly, that is when I have applied a strong black tea to it, brewed with just a cheap tea bag and a couple of ounces if boiling water, and reapplied the ebonizing solution which helps but only a little. If it helps, I will then apply the tea before the solution.
> 
> Is the banana juice sticky? I would be a little worried that straight juice would leave behind sugary residues that you won t want.
> 
> - Lazyman


That's a curious point about the sugar.. I'm guessing it will wash right off…? But, even if a little sugar is left (down in the grain), will it hurt anything?

In the pics above, the potion wasn't sticky at all… For that one, I just threw one piece of husk in a bucket and collected the water that drained out of it. Banana plants hold a lot of water inside.

The sticky juice comes from the the stem that holds the banana bunch. It's thick like syrup, and it'll turn a blade black pretty fast. But it rinses right off pretty easily too.

I cut down that banana tree yesterday, and I collected that thick juice, but I didn't get nearly as much as I thought I would. Only got an ounce or two.. So I also cut a section of the stalk and stood it up in a bucket. The stalk has a lot of water in it, so I'm gonna mess around with it later. ..."to be continued"...


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## EarlS (Dec 21, 2011)

You might want to cut up some of the leaves and make a tea. There might be more tannins in the leaves than in the sap. The hot water will also help dissolve the tanins in the water. When you "wash" the wood with the tea, the water evaporates and leaves just the tannins soaked into the wood fibers, where the sap leaves a residue, mostly on the surface. The iron acetate (vinegar/steel wool) reacts with the tannins that soaked into the wood to give a darker ebony that also penetrates further into the wood.

Sugars will break down wood fibers given some time. It also invites rot since mold and such will readily grow in the residual sugar that soaks into the wood.


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

> You might want to cut up some of the leaves and make a tea. There might be more tannins in the leaves than in the sap. The hot water will also help dissolve the tanins in the water. When you "wash" the wood with the tea, the water evaporates and leaves just the tannins soaked into the wood fibers, where the sap leaves a residue, mostly on the surface. The iron acetate (vinegar/steel wool) reacts with the tannins that soaked into the wood to give a darker ebony that also penetrates further into the wood.
> 
> Sugars will break down wood fibers given some time. It also invites rot since mold and such will readily grow in the residual sugar that soaks into the wood.
> 
> - EarlS


Thanks Earl. That makes sense about the sugars…

I did some testing today, but the labeling isn't really correct.

The side that says "sap", actually has water added to the more potent stuff (from the "stem" of the banana bunch)... With some chunks of the stem thrown in too.

The part that says "juice" turned out to be too weak to do anything. (But the flies seemed to prefer that side of the samples, for whatever that's worth)

It's hard to describe concisely, but to make a long story short, it looks like the stem has the most tannin. I didn't brew it, but I'll try that next time. That stem sap will turn a machete black in a matter of minutes. I ruined a good Japan saw when I first cut down bananas… Never made that mistake again..

Since I'm trying to find a way to Ebonize woods that are common scraps around here, I experimented with what I had laying around…

In this pic; there's Birch ply, Doug Fir ply, Redwood, Old Growth Doug Fir, and Ash.










It didn't work as good as I hoped it would… I was shooting for "Jet-Black"...

The Redwood worked best, but I guess Redwood has the most tannin to start with.

The old-growth Doug Fir came out pretty nice too, even though it's not truly "black".

The pic doesn't really do justice. All of the pieces look a little darker in real life..

con't…


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## HammerSmith (Mar 3, 2018)

... it was already dark out, so I shot this inside and the lighting just doesn't do it justice.

This is the Redwood sample, and it's a beautiful effect… look how the light dances off it…


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## EarlS (Dec 21, 2011)

Jim - looks like you just about have this one figured. Have you tried multiple layers of tea, then iron acetate, then tea, iron acetate, until it is a deep black? As more tanin is added in the form of the tea, then reacted with the iron acetate, the wood should darken, even if it doesn't contain a lot of tanin to begin with.

The bigger issue to getting a black ebony finish might be how readily the wood absorbs the liquid. What grit did you sand the various test pieces to? I'd think 150 or 220 would be the best balance between having a surface that will absorb the liquid and having to sand a lot after the ebonizing process.


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