# What I learned Making Tongue Drums



## GnarlyErik (Jul 22, 2012)

*What I learned Making Tongue Drums*

Thanks for your interest in the tongue drums -

I apologize but I did not keep precise dimensions for my tongue drums. I made about six in total, mostly as experiments to discover how the various materials and sizes worked. I made some with red oak sound boards and pine sides, one with a mahogany board and oak sides, one with a hard maple and etc. I gave all but this one of away so no longer have them around to measure, but the sound boards on all of them were of a similar size.

I have taken some pictures which may help you on relative sizes and dimensions. The background is a grid with 1" squares, and I have laid my rule directly on the drum to help in some pictures. There is some information online you can find as well which will be of help. I remember I printed out some schematics I found online which I glued onto my stock to guide the cutting. I was pleased with the results in any case.

The best sound seemed to be with the one made from the traditional padauk material from Africa, and which is pictured here. The hard maple and mahogany also produced pleasant sounds, and the oak not quite as nice, but still OK. My recommendation would be to use maple or mahogany (not Philippine) since you don't need much, and it is easier to find than the padauk. I also made various inside depths, from 4" to about 8" inside under the sound board. All the ones I built have 6mm high quality ply bottoms and fairly small sound holes cut in the ends. The bottoms were screwed in place onto thin fillister cleats glued to inside of the sides and ends, and recessed enough so the bottoms are slightly recessed so they do not contact the surface the drum rests on. All the other joints were glued. I found it was good to glue on small felt furniture pads for the box to stand on to isolate it from solid contact with whatever it is placed on. I cut the linear parts of the tongues with with a very thin kerf battery-powered panel saw and finished the curved parts with a 24" scroll saw. Sanding the sides of the tongues was a challenge and was done mostly with power sander belts cut into narrow strips and used by hand before the soundboards were glued in place.

The outside dimensions of this particular drum are 18" long by 9-1/2" wide by 8" inside depth. Keep in mind the soundboard itself fits inside the sides - maple in this case, so its width is reduced by their combined thicknesses and it winds up approximately 8" wide. The soundboard goes over the end pieces, and I found it makes a difference how far the slits are from the ends. The soundboard is 3/4" thick at the ends, but some of the individual tongues are tapered somewhat in my efforts to 'tune' the drums to particular tones - a haphazard and difficult process for me since I am 'musically challenged', i.e., I don't know very much about music. I think with a little research though you could come close to whatever notes/tones you seek. This particular one sounds very nice to my ear, and the ones I made for children seem to be pretty popular with them - then again children just like to make noise sometimes don't they?

*EDIT JAN. 5, 2017:*

It is difficult to TUNE each key. The pitch of the note produced is related to, and controlled by many factors:

Namely,

*Of the keys themselves*: Length, Width, Thickness, Mass (density of the material), and for the lack of a better word, its 'sympathetic' interaction with its neighboring keys. (There is probably a more proper term, I just don't know what it is);

EDIT 8/9/17:

I've been experimenting with tuning the keys, and applying what I have learned from studying the tuning of xylophone keys. Briefly, the pitch of any key may be changed thusly:

*TO RAISE THE PITCH:* Remove material from the END of the key. This may be done from the bottom of the key's end, so the top surface remains flat and in plane with the other keys. you do not need to remove much material, so do this in careful steps, using cutting tools sparingly, and sandpaper for the finer tuning. I've been using an iPad tuning app called PLANO to determine the resonance of any particular key;

*TO LOWER THE PITCH:* Removing material from the MIDDLE of the key's bottom does not seem to affect the pitch very much. Likely the reason is that the key is fixed at one end. I found it much easier and effective to ADD weight in the form of metal bits screwed to the bottom of the key at the free end. I experimented and with key #1 in the picture below, and charted the results:









*
Of the sound box:* The shape, size, depth, volume, material used and size of openings to the air. Also whether or not it has an enclosed bottom (all mine do, but I plan to experiment with one without a bottom sometime). I am told each component of the wood used should be held lightly near one end close to one's ear and tapped lightly with a fingernail to see if it has a 'ring' to it. Anything which 'thuds' should be rejected. The same goes for the keys, obviously!

Generally speaking and as you would expect, the larger a key is by any factor, the deeper in pitch its note will be, the relative length compared to the width is a major factor. The shorter the key is, the higher its pitch will be. Therefore, by reducing a given dimension its pitch is raised and vice versa. The problem lies in reaching a defined pitch on a specific key without the adjacent keys interfering too much, as they will all vibrate 'in sympathy' more or less, and some are prone to 'buzz' if everything isn't in harmony. Any buzzing is an unpleasant and unwanted sound.

EDIT 9/8/17: More important than the size however, is the relationship between the cross-sectional dimension and the overall length of a key. The LESS mass (measured in cross-section area) proportional to length, particularly in the center of a key, means a lower vibration (in Hertz), and therefore a lower pitch.

I first tried to deaden all keys except the one being tuned in some way, much in the way a capo is used in a guitar. But, after giving that some thought, I decided that in use, all the keys are free, so the tuning should be done with the keys all free, and working in sympathy with all the others. My solution is to analyze each key with all its brother and sister keys free to act, and that seems to work OK.

There is some very timely information from 'Texcaster' in the comments below on suggestions for tuning. Texcaster appears to be a much more musically literate person than me, and I'm sure he is right. Next time I build one of these I will follow his advice.

I hope you make a drum - at least one - they are a little addictive! I would be very interested in seeing your completed project.

Good Luck!


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

GnarlyErik said:


> *What I learned Making Tongue Drums*
> 
> Thanks for your interest in the tongue drums -
> 
> ...


They are very nice looking.


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## tyvekboy (Feb 24, 2010)

GnarlyErik said:


> *What I learned Making Tongue Drums*
> 
> Thanks for your interest in the tongue drums -
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing this information.

You might want to go back to your project post and edit it with a link to this blog post and/or add pictures to the project post.

Your original post on the tounge drums was also good.

I have some scraps of Cumaru that I may try it with.


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## maplerock (Jun 21, 2013)

GnarlyErik said:


> *What I learned Making Tongue Drums*
> 
> Thanks for your interest in the tongue drums -
> 
> ...


Erik,

Great explanation! So nice of you to take the time. A couple of questions: how did you attach sandpaper to the jigsaw (if you used one to sand the cutouts.)

Do larger fingers Produce lower sound?

Did you use a tables for any of the cut outs?

Where did you get your pattern for the cut outs (on top)?


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## Texcaster (Oct 26, 2013)

GnarlyErik said:


> *What I learned Making Tongue Drums*
> 
> Thanks for your interest in the tongue drums -
> 
> ...


Nice work Gnarly,

With an inexpensive chromatic guitar tuner you can zero in an exact pitch for each tongue. If you tuned it like a diatonic fretted dulcimer, playing a bum note is impossible.

Ex. the key of C maj has no sharps or flats. Tune the tongues with no sharps or flats. If you accompany someone else they must also play in the key of C.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_dulcimer

From the link

Frets, strings, tuning and modes[edit]

Fret placement[edit]

The frets of the Appalachian dulcimer are typically arranged in a diatonic scale. This is in contrast with instruments like the guitar or banjo, which are fretted chromatically. As early as the mid-1950s some makers began to include at least one additional fret, usually the so-called "six and a half" or "6+" fret a half step below the octave. This enables one to play in the Ionian mode when tuned to D3-A3-D4 (the traditional tuning for the Mixolydian mode), where the scale starts on the open (unfretted) string. This arrangement is often found to be more conducive to chord-melody play. It also became common to add a fret one octave up from the 6+ fret, called the "13+" fret, and by the late 1970s these additional frets had become standard.[16]

Eventually, some builders began to offer further additional frets at the "1+" and "8+" positions. These additional frets facilitate the use of still more scales and modes without retuning. As was probably inevitable, this trend eventually led to the availability of fully chromatic dulcimers, with twelve frets per octave, permitting playing in any key without re-tuning. Chromatic fretting, however, remains somewhat controversial among dulcimer players, with traditionalists preferring what they feel is the greater authenticity of the diatonic fingerboard.[17]


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## jinkyjock (Feb 2, 2014)

GnarlyErik said:


> *What I learned Making Tongue Drums*
> 
> Thanks for your interest in the tongue drums -
> 
> ...


*Erik*,
thank you for posting this intriguing project.
Had no idea such an instrument existed so any knowledge gained is always welcome.
You have produced a beautiful object.


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## jinkyjock (Feb 2, 2014)

GnarlyErik said:


> *What I learned Making Tongue Drums*
> 
> Thanks for your interest in the tongue drums -
> 
> ...


*Texcaster*,
read your post (thank you) with great interest, however although informative it is just a wee bit 
too technical for my limited understanding.
Therefore I "googled" a video of the drum being played.
Looks like a similar wood to Erik's piece.
What a wonderful, rich and clear tone it produces.
Thank you guys for this gem.
*THIS* is why I love Lumberjocks.
Cheers, Jinky (James).


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## NormG (Mar 5, 2010)

GnarlyErik said:


> *What I learned Making Tongue Drums*
> 
> Thanks for your interest in the tongue drums -
> 
> ...


They are fun I have made 3 I believe, one similar to your and others varies in woods used. Did you place wood pieces of various heights inside at the end?

You are correct, the kids love these


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## Sandpaperer (Jan 4, 2017)

GnarlyErik said:


> *What I learned Making Tongue Drums*
> 
> Thanks for your interest in the tongue drums -
> 
> ...


Can any of you guys answer this question? Can the soundboard/top of the tongue drum be pieces of lumber that have been glued together or does it have to be one piece? I want my top to be walnut around 8 - 10 inches but it is hard to find that wide. Thanks.


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## GnarlyErik (Jul 22, 2012)

GnarlyErik said:


> *What I learned Making Tongue Drums*
> 
> Thanks for your interest in the tongue drums -
> 
> ...


Thanks for your question Sandpaperer.

Let me point out first thing I do not present myself as any sort of musical expert being merely an interested novice. However, after building a number of these drums a while ago I have learned a few things about musical sounds. I am still learning after getting into building more sophisticated stringed instruments,

To answer your question directly, no I do not believe it will make much difference if you build your sound board out of more than one piece. In fact, the next one I try will have individually separate 'keys'. The reason is simple: It is devilishly hard to do any 'tuning' to each key. The pitch of the note produced is related to, and controlled by many factors:

Namely,

*Of the keys themselves:* Length, Width, Thickness, Mass (density of the material), and for the lack of a better word, its 'sympathetic' interaction with its neighboring keys. (There is probably a more proper term, I just don't know what it is);

*Of the sound box:* The shape, size, depth, volume, material used and size of openings to the air. Also whether or not it has an enclosed bottom (all mine do, but I plan to experiment with one without a bottom sometime). I am told each component of the wood used should be held lightly near one end close to one's ear and tapped lightly with a fingernail to see if it has a 'ring' to it. Anything which 'thuds' should be rejected. The same goes for the keys, obviously!

Generally speaking and as you would expect, the larger a key is by any factor, the deeper in pitch its note will be. Therefore, by reducing a given dimension its pitch is raised and vice versa. The problem lies in reaching a defined pitch on a specific key without the adjacent keys interfering too much, as they will all vibrate 'in sympathy' more or less, and some are prone to 'buzz' if everything isn't in harmony. Any buzzing is an unpleasant and unwanted sound.

I think the solution is to deaden all keys except the one being tuned in some way, much in the way a capo is used in a guitar. In other words, 'ground' them in some way as you tune a specific key. This will require some ingenuity on your part to find a way to do this for each key. Obviously removing material, or reducing its size raises the pitch and vice versa. You can also glue wood on the bottom of a key if needed. I use a tuner app on my iPad to tune, but any tuner should work. Now the problem is, how does the key sound when the other keys are freed to work in sympathy? I try to first tune all the keys individually, and they try them all after they are un-grounded. Seems to work OK, but there's some back and forth too sometimes. Patience is required!

I hope this is of help!


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## Sandpaperer (Jan 4, 2017)

GnarlyErik said:


> *What I learned Making Tongue Drums*
> 
> Thanks for your interest in the tongue drums -
> 
> ...


Thanks for the answer. You gave a lot of useful information. I am working on my first drum and hoping it turns out well.


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## Wurzljock (Aug 28, 2017)

GnarlyErik said:


> *What I learned Making Tongue Drums*
> 
> Thanks for your interest in the tongue drums -
> 
> ...


Hi all,
Thank you for the informations. I built not just my first one i am already on the 2nd.

But tuning gives me a very hard time. I did not start jet to take any material away or so because I just cant get the status quo. I am using 2 different tuner apps one allows me to see all the frequences that are occouring it is driving me creazy cause it always sees the same…

The other one a normal tuner is just fine except that some tonges who sound obviously deep are and who are very long give me a high C4 while its small neighbor (who sounds higher) gives me a lower C2

I just dont trust my tuning maschines jet.. I glued t wood pieces in so that all the tonges start on a solid wood block but not really a big difference…

Oh and when I try a online tuner in my PC, my Laptop with the tuner of garage band and my iphone tuner app at the same time I get 3 different notes at a time on certan tonges some a quite good but others make a mess…

The drum is open in the bottom… Does any one have suggestions?

Greetings from austria…


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## magimat (Feb 15, 2015)

GnarlyErik said:


> *What I learned Making Tongue Drums*
> 
> Thanks for your interest in the tongue drums -
> 
> ...


Hey,

Thanks for the post, this is awesome information.

I am in the process of building one of those right now and I am now to the point of trying to tune it.

Right now, each key produce a sound, but it's like when I hit one key, all the other keys vibrate also, so there isn't a clear sound.

I just read your comment about fixing some slugs under the keys, I will give that a try.

Did you have this problem also of multiple keys vibrating at once?

Thanks


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## Wurzljock (Aug 28, 2017)

GnarlyErik said:


> *What I learned Making Tongue Drums*
> 
> Thanks for your interest in the tongue drums -
> 
> ...


Yes i had the same problem. Putting a solid bar under the tongues where they start fixed a lot. 
I put that bar (glued on all touching sides) then i cut with the saw towards the bar. Made it a lot better.

I downloaded an App for tuning drums: iDrumTunePro
That made it much easier because it shows you all the frequenzies that are in one tongue. On a normal tuner you only see the single Peak first a A2 and on the next hit a C3 that can be really confusing. But with the app I was able to target an exact Frequenzy. ( I got the pro version cause it hat this specific extra feature ~8€)

An other thing that helped was to start tuning lower at the beginning of each tongue. It caused many frequency peaks to disapear.

Addtionally I used a rope and some Cloth to mute the unused tongues. so I was able to focus on the one i was tuning

So short:
+glue in a solid block where the tongues start
+mute the other tongues with rope and cloth or so
+make the area where the tongue comes out of the wood thinner the tongue deeper in freq.)
+get a good tuning methode that allows you to see several frequencys at the same time

Have fun building


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## magimat (Feb 15, 2015)

GnarlyErik said:


> *What I learned Making Tongue Drums*
> 
> Thanks for your interest in the tongue drums -
> 
> ...


Thanks!

I will definitely try your tips. I already tried to mute some keys with my hand, but it was preventing the whole thing to vibrate, so just inserting a piece of string between the keys should be a better idea.

The app you are suggestibg also looks good, I already bought it 

As for the solid bar under the keys, you're talking about a bar traversing all the keys and then resaw between the bars? Because on your photo, it looks more like separate bars, one for each tongue.

In your experience, can I just screw the bar temporarily to test before gluing or does in only work when glued properly?

Anyway, I will experiment with all those tips next time I get in the shop and report back.

Thanks again for your help!


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## magimat (Feb 15, 2015)

GnarlyErik said:


> *What I learned Making Tongue Drums*
> 
> Thanks for your interest in the tongue drums -
> 
> ...


Well,

I just spent a couple hours in the shop working on this thing and unfortunately, nothing seems to be working so far 

I tried gluing a bar across all tongues and it didn't really change anything. I also tried using strings between all keys except one and this didn't change much either.

I used the iDrumTuning app which is pretty nice, but it only allowed me to confirm that it is ringing many sounds at once.

Each tongue definitely produces a different pitch, but certainly not a pleasant one to the hear. There is absolutely no sustain at all, the sound is just a dull vibration, not musical in any way. Actually, I think the best sound I can get out of this thing is when I hit the sides of the box with the mallet!

I attached a few photos just in case anyone could notice something really wrong with my drum, because right now, it doesn't look too bad, but that's about it. Just for information, the top is made out of cherry and the box from cheap white pine.

I think I'm gonna put this one aside and try to build another one from scratch. For this one, I simply improvised my own design and dimensions, but apparently, this was not good enough. I remember seeing a plan from some wood magazine floating around. I'll try to get my hands on it and build the next one according to a plan, so maybe it'll be better.





































Anyway, thanx for your help and I'll try to keep you posted of my next attempt.


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## Wurzljock (Aug 28, 2017)

GnarlyErik said:


> *What I learned Making Tongue Drums*
> 
> Thanks for your interest in the tongue drums -
> 
> ...


Hi,
sorry if i wasn´t so clear. here is in picture what i ment. 
Thats how i muted:









Here in the top of the picture you can see the Bar


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## Wurzljock (Aug 28, 2017)

GnarlyErik said:


> *What I learned Making Tongue Drums*
> 
> Thanks for your interest in the tongue drums -
> 
> ...


Here is what i ment with cutting in at the beginning of the tongue.
Before i started that, i did have many different sounds to. But by cutting in even the last tongue gave up that ratteling sound.

An other option to look at is the glueing if you made a mistake and something is loose it rattles too.










I know it is hard, but you need to start tuning to get it going, you need to create some shavings  just dont make them to thin. I was surprised how much had to go until i had a nice sound.

btw..
I like your design. i might make one like you with the woodboard on top as insert.

greetings from austria


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## KindaWannaDIY (May 13, 2018)

GnarlyErik said:


> *What I learned Making Tongue Drums*
> 
> Thanks for your interest in the tongue drums -
> 
> ...


Hi,

Thanks for sharing all of this information! I have used it to build a few drums already and I am working on a 4th!

I am also trying to integrate these into my classroom (I teach at an alternative high school) as a woodworking/math/physics project.

Right now I am in the process of building my 4th drum and I am trying to tune the drum by design by sizing the length of the drum to match a specific frequency (taking into account the tongues thickness, elastic modulus of the wood, and density of the wood). I know I will probably still need to do some fine tuning but I am excited to give this a try. You can check out the program I wrote here: https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/222112099/

If you stumble upon this post and decide to use this calculator please let me know how it worked for you! I am hoping to refine it but I will need more data than the few drums that I can produce…

Also if you have any advice for the thickness of wood to use for your tongues vs length of drum please share! I have been finding more success with thinner tongues but worry that they will not have much sustain if I build a larger drum.


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## michmark (Nov 23, 2021)

GnarlyErik said:


> *What I learned Making Tongue Drums*
> 
> Thanks for your interest in the tongue drums -
> 
> ...


I'm inspired to make one myself although the tuning aspect has me intimidated. Just for completeness sake, what is the desired tone for tongue #5?

Mark


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