# Tool snobs cover your eyes, another HF gem



## Dal300

OK, I'll say it!

OUTSTANDING!

I hope the guy with the small mind that espouses only buying high dollar tools and ignores what Einstein was actually saying doesn't chime in! LOL.


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## lumberjoe

Seriously, there has to be something wrong with these as they are extremely cheap, but I have no idea what. I'm not sure if it is these tools, I am getting better, or both, but the pencil I just turned came out great. Normally they are pretty rough and need a lot of sanding. I go through a pretty decent sized strip of 150 grit to get the gouge marks out. This time I actually started with 400 grit. No gouge marks at all.


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## Countersunk

Awesome, thanks a million! I'm new to turning and was wondering what the heck to buy as a starter set. This answers that question!

How did you grind them? Did the grindwheel leave a concavity on the bevel or did you jig it so the chisels were perpendicular to the rotation of the grindwheel?


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## lumberjoe

"did you jig it so the chisels were perpendicular to the rotation of the grindwheel?"

Yes. I made a "wolverine" style jig, sort of similar to this

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/16972


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## Countersunk

Gotcha, thanks!


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## b2rtch

I have the same set and of course I also like it


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## Oldtool

I wanted to try turning out of curiously, but didn't want to spend a fortune on equipment. I got a discount coupon in the mail from Harbor Freight, bought a lathe for $90, and this set of tools for about half that. Never having prior turning experience so as to be able to judge this setup against more expensive tools, my opinion may not be worth much. However, I too am quite impressed with them.

I used them out of the box, because to me they seemed sharp enough. My method for testing is what I've learned about other tool's sharpness, like plane irons and chisels, by seeing if they slide on a finger nail, or catch. They catch, so full speed ahead. I've practiced on pine and maple, and still they seem sharp enough to me to keep going.

Again, my first experience, and I have never used a more expensive setup, so maybe I'm not a good reference, but I'm happy with this investment. I would give them 5 stars.

Thanks for posting. Happy turning


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## lumberjoe

Oldtool, sharpen them and you'll absolutely want to give them 5 stars. They were ok out of the box, but really awesome once sharpened


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## Planeman40

Maybe you would have felt more assured when buying them if you paid $90 for the chisels.

I say that as I too am a Harbor Freight fan for certain items. I have read that HF buys direct from the overseas manufacturers and not through USA middlemen. I believe this is true as just yesterday I was at HF and bought a solid brass water spigot 4-hose adapter for $7. My next stop was at Lowe's for a hose repair kit. While looking for the hose repair kit I saw the EXACT same solid brass water spigot 4-hose adapter for $14. A 100% middleman markup would account for the additional price.

I am coming to the understanding that HF's careful buying direct of its wares contributes mightily to its low prices. The same imported stuff is for sale at other places at double the price but their purchasing people just wait for a seller to approach them in their office cubical.

A couple of years ago I wanted a pair of binocular loupes like dentists and some surgeons use as I do a lot of highly detailed work. The prices were astronomical! I kept looking and looking, I searched eBay, and I still couldn't find anything affordable. Than I decided to see if I could locate a Chinese manufacturer directly on the Internet. I found two and wrote each an e-mail asking if I could buy a pair direct. One replied - the one I preferred - that they would sell me a pair if I kept it quiet that they sold it direct as they didn't want to upset their USA distributor. So I paid $70 direct for the binocular loupes that their distributor was selling for $550! Of course there was shipping and import duty so the total came to a shade over $100. But a 500% markup?

Planeman

Planeman


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## a1Jim

thanks for your review
Just noticed another inexpensive set 
http://www.amazon.com/Pc-Wood-Lathe-Chisel-Set/dp/B000FVEF6O/ref=pd_cp_hi_0


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## dbhost

I've seen those Windsor Design chisel sets at Harbor Freight… I had already bought my Benjamin's Best from Penn State Industries. The differences I could see between the 2 sets were…

#1. The HF box was actually glued together. The Penn State box they expected to hold together with friction.
#2. The HF box was felt lined, the Penn State box, not so much…
#3. Slightly different selection of turning tools. I don't recall which one, but one of the turning tools was different between the sets.
#4. The name on the handle.
#5. The color of the stain on the handle.
#6. The price of the set. While the Benjamin's Best aren't terribly expensive, the Windsor Design were only about 2/3 the cost, even less with the coupon at Harbor Freight.

If I had to do it over again, I should have gone with the Windsor Design set as my starter set…


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## lumberjoe

A while back I looked into getting a starter set from PSI which included a lathe, pen blanks, madrrels, and turning tools. The turning tools offered were carbon steel (yuck). At 35$, the HF set is a steal. The tool selection seems pretty useful. The only one I have yet to use is the round nose scraper. I have no idea what that is for.

Jim, have you used that set? It gets awful reviews and I bet those are carbon steel also (not HSS).


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## DannyJ

I'm on my third water pump with a Chinese made, Harbor Freight tile saw, and I've lost count of the successful tile/stone/masonry jobs completed. The saw is fantastic, I just keep wearing out water pumps.

Based on your good experience, I'm going to pick up a set of their wood chisels.

thank you for the information,


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## TerryDowning

Even the best(most expensive??) blades are less than worthless when dull. Most blades are not properly sharpened when purchased as the grind and exact sharpness of a tool is actually a very personal thing.

Good call on purchasing less expensive tools to practice sharpening. I recommend mastering sharpening. Once you have it down, sharpen that Sorby for comparison.


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## lumberjoe

I want to get 4 to 5 good grinds on the cheapo's before I take the sorbys to the grinder. The problem is these aren't getting dull very quickly!


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## JulianLech

I purchased the same set of turning tools a few months ago. Just started turning and also didn't want to spend a small fortune on tools. I haven't used all of them yet but they did need to be sharpened before use. Not having used more expensive turning tools I can't compare the HF chisels. Definitely a good way to start without paying big bucks.


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## MrRon

I also have the same set of wood turning chisels and I use them on my HF lathe. They work well for me. I have no complaints. I'll bet these tools in the hands of a well known turner would produce turnings as good as tools costing many times more.

Anyone can cook hamburger, but a chef can turn that hamburger into a masterpiece.


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## Kentuk55

Thnx for the gr8 review. I've always said there are some gems at HF. I may just pic me up a set o these for some experimenting… mmuuuuwwhhhaa haaa haa haaaa lol


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## CharlieM1958

I've got some cheap turning tools that work very well. It's my understanding that expensive tools will generally hold an edge better, and that's really their only advantage.

As to your thoughts on the Easy Rougher, I'd encourage you to experiment a little more. I'm a lefty, and I use it for about 90% of my turning. I'm in full agreement with your wife.


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## Wildwood

The red handle set of turning tools considered better than the white set at HF. Few years back lot of comment concerning red vice white posted on wood net forum. Al Lancer did a test on tool steel offered by HF see article and footnote at bottom of chart

http://www.woodturninglearn.net/articles/ToolSteel.pdf

Wish they had tested Penn State (PSI) turning tools, which are very popular with new turners too. You can buy individual spindle or bowl gouges from PSI for not much money.

I learned to buy individual tools soon after getting into turning and have HSS tools made by Crown, P & N, Sorby, Henry Taylor. Do not like the KRYO skew made by HT. Love the 5/8" bowl gouge made by Thompson tools.


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## thedude50

I am currently testing many of the tools that were mentioned here. I am not ready to release my findings on all of them yet but price does yield a better product. The Robert Larson tools and The Robert Sorby tools are simply made much better than the Windsor designs. Some of the problems that we found with the two sets of Windsor designs were bad geometry in the grind. Also the handles that were very short and didn't hold very well to the tool they were supposed to hold. Things we did like about the tools were that they were easily reground to better geometry and that we were able to repurpose one of the roughing gouges into a bowl gouge geometry. Also once reground and and sharpened on the tormek the cutters held their edge fairly well. We tested the gouges on a peace of maple and was able to rough out 4 blanks before the edge needed to be refreshed on the tormek. The resharpen was very quick and we were able to return to turning. The Benjamen's best edge lasted much longer it was able to do 8 blanks before the edge needed re touch. Also the handles were much nicer in fit and finish. While not as good as the premium brands the tools are very usable and with a great edge on them they do a great job on the lathe. Of the two economy brands we preferred the Benjamin s because your able to get more tools for specific uses and that they held their edge much longer.

All things being equal and with some kind of accurate grinding system. All the tools we tested are great for those that are just starting out or for those on a tight budget.


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## Rxmpo

I too just started to turn and didn't want to spend a lot only to find it wasn't for me. I bought this set and could not be happier with them. (Granted I don't have experience with other lathe tools)

Just picked up a slow grinder and with a wolverine jig attached on CL cheap and these lathe tools make smooth turnings. I would certainly recommend them to anyone just starting out like me to get your feet wet without jumping in at the deep end of the pool. The wolverine jig and bowel gouge sharpening attachment really take the guess work out of sharpening and gets you back to turning almost immediately. For the right price, certainly worth the investment. With the money saved on these tools, the jigs and tools together still make the total cost less than a premium set alone.


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## lumberjoe

thedude50, that's great information! I wish I had some other sets to compare these too. I did touch up the edges yesterday. My wife made a wine bottle stopper out of lignum-vitae. That seemed to blunt up the gouge pretty good. I've never worked with that before. She came in about halfway through and mentioned she had to switch to the easy rougher because the "cheap one" wasn't cutting anymore. I've never worked with lignum-vitae before so I looked it up. It's #2 on the Jankna hardness scale at 4500! Comparatively hard maple is 1450.

I still haven't taken my sorbys to the grinder, but I may later on today.


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## Wildwood

I have been using this set up for many years, you can repeat or change bevel angles with just a little practice. Have made couple of homemade jigs prior to buying a wolverine system and never got same angles every time.

http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=packard&Product_Code=142611&Category_Code=sharp-wss

http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=packard&Product_Code=142614&Category_Code=sharp-wss

PSI has a clone for few bucks cheaper and provides a skew jig too.

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LCGRIND4.html

Have the wolverine skew jig but still sharpen my skew chisels free hand because does not do a good job. Also, do not recommend Vari grind2 or large tool Vari grind jig for folks starting out.

If want to repeat a tool bevel angle every time go to the grinder get a jig. Light touch at the wheel all you need!


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## thedude50

That is where the Tormek comes in I get the same profile every time even on my skew chisels which have a mirror edge which lasts a lot longer. A guy can get good results with the grizz and the jet wet grinders or on the worksharp 3000. however they while good are not as accurate as the Tormek.

The l V will dull the best tools fast the stuff is like turning rocks . I made a mallet out of it and had to sharpen several times in the process. They use that wood for bearings in turbines at the dam. When they change out the bearings they sell the old ones to local woodworkers,. once dry they are ready to be used for lots of other projects .


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## Wildwood

Simple dollars and cents make dry bench grinders the best choice for lot of woodturners. Initial cost of grinder, buying friable wheels, jigs win hands down comparison. Belt sander even cheaper if have right model and make your own jigs if needed. When it comes to maintaining sharp tools, change or repair bevel angles bench grinder or belt sander biggest bang for the bucks.

Friable AL grinding wheels come in white, pink, or blue and can cost a little or lot. Shop around for best price or sales. If have money to burn pick up a diamond wheel for touching up your tools.

Tormek and clones do a great job but jigs and new wheels for them expensive. Tormek has made a jig to sharpen, change or repair bevels on your bench grinder. If have other woodworking tools you routinely sharpen Tormek or clones good op. You are stuck going back to manufacturer for wheels, most Tormek jigs fit competition.

Worksharp and other sharpening systems great if do more than woodturning and know how to freehand sharpen your turning tools. Again stuck going back to manufacturer for supplies. Woodturners either love or hate their Worksharp plenty of reviews and views on various forums.


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## thedude50

wildwood we are not all into this hobby for a cheep fix some people want great results. With the tools that you are recommending keeping a repeatable edge is not likely.. I can literally carve with my turning tools. they are honed to a mirror finish and they cut great. No grinder or belt sander can give you this type of results. While they will give you a workable edge they are rough at best. And in case you didnt know Tormek gave a wheels for life offer for the past year and they stand behind that. I use my wheel daily and it is still almost full sized. They dont wear fast like grinder wheels do.


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## Wildwood

DUDE50, not offering a cheap fix to sharpening turning tools! While bench grinders and belt sanders offer economy sharpening your turning tools neither method is cheap. Either a bench grinder or belt sander will get your tools sharp. MDF disk charge with honing compound mounted on the lathe will also provide a mirror finish to tool edges.

Stopped honing my turning tools to mirror finish many years ago. Go right from grinder to turning may re-sharpen a tool many times before completing a project. May or may not touch up a tool edge with diamond card between trips to grinder.

$60 for bench grinder twenty years ago. Paid right at $265 for my wolverine sharpening system (basic sys, Vari grind & skew jigs, and dressing attachment) less than twenty years ago. Also on my second single point diamond wheel dresser not part of wolverine system another $20. Add another $250 -$300 for grinding wheels from various vendors.

Except for bench grinder everything else has been mail order where paid shipping and sales tax. So rough guess is $845 spent on sharpening and supplies over past twenty years.

Could have save a heap of money using my $60 hand held belt sander and homemade stand. Have added a $125 Hitachi combination belt disk sander to my tool kit. Belts for those machines even cheaper than friable AL wheels. With right grit, sandpaper can get a mirror finish on all my tools.

Few years after got into turning a complete Tormek T-7 with woodturner package cost around $565 without shipping and sales tax, no idea about new wheels. Same system today would run me $997.66 with shipping and tax.

People buying Harbor Freight and Benjamin's Best from PSI turning tools may not need a Tormek. If they want one go for it!

A nice read scroll down to "sharpening turning tools:

http://www.fpga-faq.org/sb-metal_hold/CD_21/wood_Turning_documents.pdf


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## thedude50

I got that same wolverine system for 90 dollars. It had all the parts I liked it till i got the t7 and I never looked back.


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## lumberjoe

I hear what both of you guys are saying. The T7 is awesome, but if you are telling me that without paying almost 700$, my turning tools will never really be sharp and I just shouldn't bother using them, then this hobby would be over for me. I'm not doubting the T7 is amazing and sharpens tools to the absolute pinnacle of sharpness, but I've found the pinnacle is a little out of my reach. I do just fine with a dry grinder and a wolverine jig.


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## thedude50

A lot of people use that system And it does work My point was a honed edge will last a lot longer and give you a smoother finish than one that is not honed. I used the wolverine for many years and still honed with a whetstone or a diamond plate. I wanted better results as the years went by and I found that the T7 was the answer I was looking for. I also started off with a cheep set of great neck tools that are not HSS and they held their edge for short periods of time lots of trips to the grinder. I tried lots of tools and settled on Robert sorby and Robert Larson as the two brands I liked best. The reason we decided to test all the tools we could afford to buy was so that we could recommend tools to our readers that are just starting to turn. Knowing they don't want to spend a thousand dollars on a set of turning tools.


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## b2rtch

" they are honed to a mirror finish and they cut great." 
Interestingly enough I had a sharpening class and the teacher told us the for turning,to have a tools with a burr it better. 
He sharpens HHS tools until dark red, never cool them and goes right from the bench grinder to the lathe.
He never uses a guide either even for gouges.
This method works well for me.

Or ancestors never had any of this guides and fancy grinders or anything else like that , yet they did work and they did a very good work. 
Do we really need wasting a money on all these things?
I bought a Tormek clone, it seats on my shelf; I never use it. 
I bought a Worsharp 3000, it seats on my shelf I never use it.
This is one of the reason I like Paul Sellers so much ; he says that we do not need them and he shows us how to do an excellent work with out any expensive gadget.
I use scary sharpening and my Ridgid belt sander to sharpen all my tools and then I strop them and I get extremely sharp edges on the cheap ( the way I like it)
Bert


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## Wildwood

If you can get a smooth bevel without lot of facets every time, you sharpen your tools all you need. Using a light touch will not waste or overheat steel or grove your grinding wheel. KISS!

Here are several articles on sharpening and homemade and commercial jigs.

http://www.woodturningonline.com/Turning/Turning_articles.php?catid=22


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## thedude50

Bert if your grinding your tools till they are red your killing the temper. Plain and simple You should go back to your tormek clone, or cheep copy. It wont kill your temper and you will get much better results. You need to spend some time learning to use the tools you spent good money on and learn some patience. You see that is one thing the pros from the past had a lot of that we don't today. People want to rush through stuff too much to get something done quick and cheep. Also In the past master craftsmen were not cheep they spent a load of their salary on their tools. The simple truth is better tools better work. This fact did not go un headed by the masters of the past.


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## Wildwood

Think he is talking about color of spark coming off wheel while sharpening HSS tool and do not quench tool in water to cool just let air cool. I agree, Jerry started using HSS to make his tools in 1960's then when on to develop more exotic steels for turners, he recommends using a jig; see link:

http://www.woodturners.org/tech_tips/glasser-sharpen.pdf

Jerry has since sold his company see link:

http://www.glaserhitec.com/shop/shopping/

Jerry recommended high speed grinder 3,000+ RPMS new owner recommends slow speed grinder 1725 RPMS. JMHO, both grinders high or slow speed will sharpen your tool and both can blue your tools. A slow speed dry grinder runs less than 1,000 RPMs but cost too much for the average woodturner.

If like exotic steel gouges and can make your own wood handles check out:
http://thompsonlathetools.com/

Bought a 5/8" U-shape bowl gouge will buy V-shape1/2" later on. I like both U & V shapes bowl gouges.

I do not do everything experts say, so only buy what works for me. I like K-hardness 80 or 100 grit for re-sharpening and 46 grit wheel for changing bevel angle or repair damage & mistakes from free hand sharpening.


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## thedude50

Bill I am pretty sure he is talking about glowing red tools not sparks I dont really care what he does but that would be bad advise to give others.

Lance


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## shelly_b

Just ordered this set cantwait to get it! Thanks for the great review! Ive been waiting on them to go on sale but i am tired.of waiting lol. They were $2 off lol


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