# Post a project before posting an opinion



## rhett (May 11, 2008)

Is it just me, or do other people find amusement in posts made by people who have nothing to show for their self implied wealth of woodworking knowledge. I often read forum postings by people who get snarky and defensive about woodwork, only look and see that they have posted no examples of their mastery of wood. Its easy to sound like you have knowledge of a subject, it's not so easy to show proof. The old saying rings true….Put up or shut up. Just my .02


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

Merry Christmas!


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## jockmike2 (Oct 10, 2006)

Lighten up dude, it's Christmas! I do know what you are saying though. Yea, I've seen it before. My advice, if you care is, look where it's coming from, a no-body! Mike in Mich.


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## Blake (Oct 17, 2007)

...yep


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

Whatever.

Look, most people actually have a life, with spouse and kids and jobs (plural). I only have time to build stuff on occasion (I am making Christmas boxes) and rarely have time to do any thing on LJ other than post to the forums maybe once a day. If I didn't nobody would know I'm part of the community.

Other than my kitchen, I only recently was able to set-up shop in my new
home and the only projects I could post are things built a
long time ago, which nobody wants to see.

Just because we don't have have anything to show doesn't mean we don't know what we are talking about…and none of us declares ourselves an expert at it.

Regardless of the hobby, it's thread like this one that makes me wonder why I even bother with Internet forums.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

It doesn't bother me at all if people want to comment without having any projects posted.

Having said that, I prefer when people post projects because it gives me a better frame of reference for interpreting their comments.


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## gagewestern (Mar 24, 2009)

with the net that is not face to face we have lost the saying if you dont have anything to say dont say anything at all


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## Rick Dennington (Aug 27, 2009)

Why don't you post some things you've made, and then we may discuss it. No projects, or blogs-- no discussion. Some people don't post a lot of their pieces on here-- I post a few. But that don't mean I don't know how to build them. I've probably built more furniture and sold enough I could furnish your house. 
'Nuff said'.........


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## BlankMan (Mar 21, 2009)

Nope.

I don't don't have any projects posted here. And your method certainly does not give me incentive to post any.

I'm not here to live up to your requirements. We're here to help one another and part of that is sharing knowledge and posting projects is not a requirement for sharing knowledge in my opinion.


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## cabinetmaster (Aug 28, 2008)

Hey. If you made anything, no matter how long ago, post it. Who cares. I posted some projects I first made in Jr and Sr high schools. Just let's people know how you started and where you are today. People can tell how much experience you have that way and can take your comments for what they are worth.


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## LesB (Dec 21, 2008)

Does posting projects really make a difference. As I found out Charlie Neil makes all those videos and has a huge knowledge of wood working but has never posted a project. He has his reasons. I'm sure there are a number of "professional" wood workers who contribute but don't post pictures of their "commercial" jobs. 
Personally I have made hundreds of items that I haven't posted; many are just (boring) furniture or cabinet work. I try to post new or interesting things as much to inspire others as to get some feed back on my work.

It would be nice if everyone would fill in their geographical locations and a short profile of their experiences and maybe philosophies of wood working and life so we could get to know them. Personally I find it helpful in answering questions and making constructive remarks about projects if I know what the person's experience or background is.


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## pete57 (Jan 22, 2009)

Humm?


> ?
> What does a professional forum posting woodworker, furniture maker, carpenter, good ol boy look and sound like


? Most of the ones I know are full of the horse dropping materials you know. 
If you want to see some of my work go to Facebook and look for pete paris, some is there. I cannot help that I have dial up and can't post pictures on this particular site as of yet, but they are coming hopefully.

I have a work ethic that has been around since it all started. The older ones teach the younger ones and this is basically a place of learning as I see it. I am even learning from the younger ones these days. So how can I learn anything positive when I come to this site and see that I should not ask questions or comment unless I have shown someone a life history of my shop, my family, and all the things I have tried to build but just can't get over this little hump without asking for a little help. It is not the question of getting help it is in the asking that people grow. So I ask what does a *self implied wealth of woodworking knowledgable* professional forum posting woodworker, furniture maker, carpenter, good ol boy look and sound like???


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

Good advice is good advice. It stands on it's own and seeks not verification from a portfolio. Besides, if bad advice is given, I'm pretty sure people will get called on the carpet for it.

If I decide to post something it will be something I'm proud of. My first coffee table, a laminate-covered, 80's influenced monstrosity, and the TV stand I built made entirely of 2×2 pine 23 years ago, would do nothing to inspire people to listen to my advice.

If I do need advice on a project, I'll post the question to the forums. Don't need the projects sections for that…and honestly, a small jpg is hardly good enough to do justice to a project anyway, and conversely, can hide a lot of flaws.

BTW, only being here a couple of months, I had no idea that Curt had no projects posted. He doesn't need them, as I've found his posts to be some of the best I've read here.


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## rhett (May 11, 2008)

Not picking a fight, I don't need to relax because I'm not upset. I am just presenting a personal opinion. Post projects, don't post projects its all up to you. I am sure there are alot of very talented woodworkers on here with full bodies of work under their belt. If your on a computer, posting ideas on a woodworking site, I believe most other woodworkers on their computers would like to see your work. Plain and simple. I never said it should be required. I am more prone to look at topics presented by others whos work I admire.

Merry Christmas


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

Then please avoid the use of words like "find amusement in posts made by people." Sounds like you are asking for a fight.

Thank you!


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## sidestepmcgee (Mar 14, 2008)

I here you,before I take advice from someone i first check out there projects.And if no projects to judge from then I pretty much dismiss the advice.The site is about sharing though so it would be nice to have posted at least one project.Plus im a visual person so the pics of a project help a lot, but thats me.Oh and merry christmas


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Maybe you should PM Martin. See if he'll put in a posting block that limits comments by the number of projects.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

In my own case, I'm suffering from retinopathic vision disorders which will someday rob me of my eyesight. I hope that technology will allow me to continue here, even after that fact. I won't have any new projects to post.
Bring your complaint to a former woodworker who, god forbid, has MS or Lou Gehrig's disorder. You gonna make them explain why they have no current projects to show? They haven't lost their wealth of woodworking knowledge, even if they have nothing to post of current projects. Why deny them the right to chat with like-minded souls?


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

rhett …I am sorry to hear you say that, in the pass I have posted 37 projects and at the moment I had an accident and I am unable to do anything, also I have no heat in my small shop, it will be next spring before I do more woodworking and I don't comment very much; since I don't post that means that I should stay away from LJ site?


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

rhett…To make you happy a member could be dishonest and post something that is not his own, copy someone else projects and call it its own but that is not the way this LJ site works.


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## ryno (May 14, 2008)

so much drama..


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## rtb (Mar 26, 2008)

There is something here for everyone BUT the bottom line is you decide what to read !!


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## jockmike2 (Oct 10, 2006)

Yea, I stand corrected too. Anyone can spot a BS artist. I mean, if someone is spewing sewer from their cakehole you're gonna know it.


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## BlankMan (Mar 21, 2009)

The irony of this is that it wasn't too long go there was a thread complaining that TOO many projects were being posted.  Can't please everyone, it's obvious.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Good point Curt. Most people tend to think everyone is like they are. That is why trusting people seem to be gullible at times, they trust everyone else. There was one fella I knew who would question everything I told him. When I got to know him a little better, it was obvious he was a real spin master; ie, only tells the part of something that supports his position. He would spin white to be black.


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## jockmike2 (Oct 10, 2006)

Curt, I think the point of that thread was that one person was posting 4 or more project at one time. I think that was resolved pretty well. Anyone can post as much as they want at a time.


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

Can't please everyone is right.
Some LJs have projects that they don't like to post thinking they maybe not good enough to post.
I was insulted 2 weeks ago on my projects posted last year saying that they look like something from a cheap store. The insult I received was from a fine professional woodworker that I have posted very good comments re: his work. Never would I though receiving comment like that specially from him.
We have here hobbyist and professional woodworker and we are LJs to enjoy and learn.


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## BlankMan (Mar 21, 2009)

Mike if everyone posts one a week, think about it, with the member count, that be 2000 projects a day, same problem. I look a the new projects posted once in a while, it is overwhelming, still, let there be more! Let people do what they want to do. Can't stop them anyway… If somebody has the time one day to sit down and post 4 projects are we the ones to tell him no, your have to take the time each day and post one instead?

To me to insult something that someone did and is proud of is just not right, regardless. Then say nothing.


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## griff (Feb 6, 2008)

Seems like every one is right, The main reason i dont answer many questions or offer much advice or even blog a project is because I do have projects posted, All you have to do is go look and youll know i dont know what im talking about.


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## BlankMan (Mar 21, 2009)

LOL Good one griff.


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## griff (Feb 6, 2008)

Im glad you enjoyed it BlankMan . Just tryin cool things off a bit. In all seriousness though I do feel that way.


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## BlankMan (Mar 21, 2009)

Mike, not from what I saw of your stuff, very nice indeed.


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## jockmike2 (Oct 10, 2006)

I didn't mean anything negative. I think it's fine if someone wants to post 20 projects at one time. You never see me put down anyones work, I always give everyone an attaboy, because they are all special to me. Projects I mean, I just don't have the time to make a comment on each of their projects. What I usually do is look them over and give them a comment on the best project I see.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

I hear what you're saying, but sometimes there are extenuating circumstances. I didn't post any projects for a while because most of mine are on my web site and I didn't want to waste any of Martins bandwdth when I can post a link. At request, i went ahead and posted a few items of interest and make reference to more when needed. I would rather have someone that knows what they are talking about without any projects posted than have the BS artists posting someone elses work. Just my opinion!


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## jockmike2 (Oct 10, 2006)

I do agree Dan. I've seen your work, you are a proven craftsman.


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## BarbS (Mar 20, 2007)

Well, this thread made me decide to post some older work so you folks can see a few things I've done. Sure wouldn't want any of you to think all I am good for is gab around here! ;-)


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## jockmike2 (Oct 10, 2006)

We know better Barb!


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## jockmike2 (Oct 10, 2006)

Your work is Outstanding.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

But we like *pretty* gabs! LOL On another forum that I run, I have a carpenter that provides a ton of great info to people about anything building or remodeling along with tool usage and woodworking. He does not have a digital camera and never posted any pics, but is great at what he does.


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## BlankMan (Mar 21, 2009)

Hey Mike, my second comment wasn't insinuating you do that, I was commenting on what GMman said, I should have have made that more clear.

And I too agree with what Dan said, and am laughing at what Barb said, yes we know better.


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## jbertelson (Sep 26, 2009)

I haven't posted any projects, but there are a bunch of old projects, utilitarian and shop jig stuff, in my blog. I am waiting until I get my shop up to snuff to do what I consider a REAL woodworking hobbyist project….I am OCD (-: , and I am tremlbing. It is not whether you have posted a project that is the issue, this thread makes that obvious. It is the nature of the comment.

I am a beginning woodworker hobbyist, and I only make positive comments, and give very utiliitarian advice, which sometimes I can do, because I have been banging around in the do-it-yourself realm for decades.

I think it is the judgemental comments that seem inappropriate to us, no matter who makes them. Meaning statements like ".....that's crap", or "that doesn't meet the criteria for real Arts and Crafts style", or "you are just not a good woodworker" or " Joe Blow does that 10 times better than you." Those statements don't tell the presenter anything useful. I think you know what I mean. We all come with different skill sets, aesthetic values, interests, and experience. *I don't think judgement is ever useful, paradoxically, it only tells us something about the person doing the judging.* It is an easy act of self indulgence, requires no thought, and fails to help the person who is presenting his work.

I am amazed at the patience, kindness, and mentorship exhibited by the truly skilled members of this forum, and judgement never enter into it. We, not just our projects, are always a work in progress.

Its a journey, it's a hobby, and it should be fun…......

Thats my perspective, and I am sure not everybody agrees…...

Happy holidays to all…..........


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## kolwdwrkr (Jul 27, 2008)

Maybe Martin should take down the Banner in the corner that says "Lumberjocks, Woodworking SHOWCASE" so that it doesn't confuse people. It's pretty clear what this site was intended for, and clear as to where it is going. To many people, to much BS. Frankly I used to love to post and play around here. The only reason I come here now is to see the projects. It seems as though there is always someone looking for some sort of trouble, Not to say that you are Rhett because I stand behind you on this one, but it just becomes a battle in a community where we don't want battles. Battles lead to moderators, moderators lead to a crappy site. We already have lounge police that have to whine about everything remotely negetive. Weirdos who PM out of the blue or want to start large controversies just to never prove a point other then the fact that they really shouldn't be here. So what's the point here? These types of postings are senseless. Oh, and I'm sure someone you no posters know has a freakin camara so you can get your projects posted here. Excuses are like A-holes, everyone has one and it's full of &^%$.


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## griff (Feb 6, 2008)

BlankMan, No insult taken. I was just doing something that I hardly ever do, and that is post on a topic of this nature. 
I to like what barbs said , She just posted an awesome blanket chest.


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## BarbS (Mar 20, 2007)

Wow Keith, bad day? I don't see this site that way at all. Sure there are discussions I have no interest in, but it is certainly big enough to pick and choose. I find this a really comfortable and helpful environment for woodworkers of all stripes.


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## GFYS (Nov 23, 2008)

prigs


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## kolwdwrkr (Jul 27, 2008)

Prigs? May be to big of a word for me at this moment. Sorry Barb, I'm not really in a bad mood, just don't like silly confrontation. These types of threads invite arguementation. The people behind them have nothing to do but stir something up. Rhett should be making a project to post, instead of posting about nobody posting projects. mics_54, stop confusing us drunks with single weird words. LOL


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## BlankMan (Mar 21, 2009)

Hey griff, that was for jockmike2, too many mike's I guess, I think I was misunderstood, just wanted to clear that up.

kolwdwrkr, I can see both sides, and having been one that posted a thread of this type, and after the fact I'd have to say not proud of it and won't do it again because nothing will ever come out of it because people won't change and they certainly won't change for you or me or anyone, but it was something that bothered me so I aired it, and that is what the OP did. Should anyone think less of him because he chose to speak out on something that bothered him? No. Things can be discussed in a civilized manner which I think it has been, everyone siting their reasons for their opinion. I doubt anyone will change anyone else's mind but it helps to understand where everyone is coming from.

But to reject someone's knowledge, expertise, and experience because they don't have projects posted here and only here is too far a stretch in my opinion. And that's just my opinion. If someone answers a question I have I don't go and look at their projects before I accept it. That just seems a little ridiculous to me. but again, that's just my opinion and if people want to do that, so be it.

And I totally agree with you that we don't need this and I for one will never do it again no matter how much something may bother me. Live and learn. This is the first Forum of all that I participate in that I even paid attention to the Coffee Lounge part of it, and I'd have to say I do like it.


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## JohnGray (Oct 6, 2007)

petty, petty, petty

Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I like to see positive post about positive things. I don't think any of us have been pre qualified on LJs to give our comments. If we had to be I probably wouldn't be hear )


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## BlankMan (Mar 21, 2009)

I commend you Jim for your post in this thread. A voice of sanity. I am learning to be more accepting and less critical because everyone does not think like me.


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## degoose (Mar 20, 2009)

Hello…


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## woodworm (Jul 27, 2008)

I listen to good comments and critiques by any camp, coz I believe some people have the knowledge but not the skill and others may have the skill and talent but may not able to express their views.


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## WhittleMeThis (Mar 1, 2009)

If a comment on your work is valid or invalid you should be able to judge that on your own. Accept the comments that may help you grow as an artisan and reject those that you feel don't add to your personal style or abilities. Without feedback it is very difficult to fix things that we are not aware of.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

We tend to judge others by their actions, yet we tend to judge ourselves by our intentions and we all know that the road to hell is paved with !!!

opinions are like a$$holes…..............every one has one.

Humilty is a neccassary must and so often we tend to be a critic. Just yesterday I installed our new dishwasher. I've installed dozens of dishwashers, dozens of built in ovens and moicrowaves, sinks, and lights and TVs but right in front of my better half, after proclaiming what a professional tradesman I am, after telling her how much money she is saving by having me around we tested the newly installed dishwasher. .....................seems I msitook the vent for the drain and flooded the basement and the kitchen floor

Humble pie for me, for at least the rest of my life ?


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## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

Don't fret so, I've learned to except rejection and criticism as a way of life from just about everyone …


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

I'm still giggling about "Weirdos who PM out of the blue", as *if*, LOL!!!!


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## jockmike2 (Oct 10, 2006)

Me too Odie, where you been?


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

Do you mean like the not so nice PM I recevied last night.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/12545#reply-128582


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## GaryC (Dec 31, 2008)

Dang Odie…haven't seen you in a long time…. Good to see you back


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## BlankMan (Mar 21, 2009)

I second Jim's link.


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

Yes I do too Jim is an ok guy!


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## NoSlivers (Dec 9, 2009)

Um… I have just started posting here. I've put in a couple projects, nothing special but they're mine. If someone wants to make a compliment or a criticism, I'm ok with that. If someone wants to be snide or unfriendly, I'm strangely ok with that too, it doesn't take away from my enjoyment or feeling of accomplishment one iota. Now if we are talking about "pet peeves" here, let's talk about "spellcheck" ;D


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## rustedknuckles (Feb 17, 2008)

I'm with you Rhett, put up or shut up.


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## REK (Aug 30, 2009)

There were so many responces I forgot what the question was?


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## rhett (May 11, 2008)

Who knew that posting an opinion that might piss people off would get so much action. Now how do I get this thread to stop sending me e-mail. When I checked my inbox today, I thought I suddenly got popular.


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## BlankMan (Mar 21, 2009)

You started it rhett now pay the price.  LOL (just kidding)


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## GFYS (Nov 23, 2008)

I'm never posting a project now.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

That's probably for the best!


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Hey Mics
Because one or two people have issues with not having projects posted doesn't mean the rest of us don't want to see your projects. I for one feel if you nail two 6" pieces of 2×4s nailed together and call it an "X" I would want to see it. Why? Because you took the effort to make it and share it with us. And I think many others feel the same.


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## GFYS (Nov 23, 2008)

a1jim ..but I don't want to make papadan feel inadequate


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

If your going to make a post whether it be a written post or project post you need to be prepared for comments by other users of the Internet, the good and the not so good. You can't chose who will or will not comment behind your post but you can chose what you do or do not do with the information. I do find this thread to be a change from the opposite complaint of people posting to many projects, same gripe, different post. Refreshing.


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

Good one *mics_54*!


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

I could of included the above comment in my above post but I am padding my post count.


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## GFYS (Nov 23, 2008)

I know papadan was just ribbing me and I assume it's because he knew I was being facetious. I will post something just as soon as I do something I feel is worthy of boasting which isn't likely since I set the bar pretty high.


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## Padre (Nov 5, 2008)

Rhett, ask Martin to close the thread. That will stop the email.


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## BlankMan (Mar 21, 2009)

Can't you just click on the "Unwatch" button at the top of the thread when you're the OP of it?


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## Gary (Jul 24, 2006)

Is this the thread where someone's White lightening was gasoline?


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## BlankMan (Mar 21, 2009)

Hey rhett, I think I might be starting to agree with you to some extent.


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## studie (Oct 14, 2009)

I never lie and am always right, sorry I'm late but I'll leave early to make up for it, I may be slow but I'm expensive


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## RetiredCoastie (Sep 7, 2009)

Very well put Jim!


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