# Stumpy Nubs vs. Charles Neil AUCTION RAISES $2,025.00!!!!



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*The Results are in: The charity auction was held, and the winning box sold for $2,025.00- all of which will go to charity! *

(Visit Stumpynubs.com where the contest is the subject of the recent episode of Blue Collar Woodworking.)

Charles won the Form Catagory, Stumpy won the Function Catagory, and the tie breaker…............ Charles won the Joinery Catagory. The total score was 2607-2329… SO THE WINNER IS: CHARLES NEIL!!! (Full breakdown is at the bottom of this content, please take a few minutes to read it!)










Charles Neil and I discussed having a thread to give some of the details about the projects once the votes were in and everything was announced. You can also weigh in, good and bad as long as it's polite,*we really want your toughts now that you know the makers and the results!*

*First*, I want to once again thank Charles and Sherri for their participation. They have been class acts! I also want to thank everyone here on Lumber Jocks that participated by offering their votes during the judging phase. I thought all of the votes were fair, and the best box won!

*If I was voting like all of you did, here are my honest ratings for both boxes.*
BOX #1 (Charles Neil)

*Form*- I got to see his box before anyone else, and when I did, I instantly knew that whatever chance I had of winning was gone. The form alone was just stunning. I especially liked the way the sweep of the sides carried up into the maple center of the top. And the finish was flawless. *A good solid 10*.

*Joinery*- I understand as well as anybody how hard it is to get a perfect miter joint, but with the high end power tools he has (although he didn't always have nice tools as he himself has said), it is at least a bit easier for him. I was really expecting to see some dovetails, but that would not have worked with the box style. I really didn't like the reinforcement strips inside the box corners, which are difficult to see in the photos but would be obvious in person. With all that said, there were no flaws that I could see, but because it was utilized joints that a well tuned machine can make with reasonable ease (assuming he didn't cut it by hand with a miter box) *I give the joinery an 8*.

*Function*- The box was very functional, and would look beautiful on an end table. But beauty is covered in the "form" score. So here we have to judge on how useful it is for the stated purpose. If I was a judge, I would really be looking for something that was specific to the living room. It will certainly hold a remote and some other things, but not in a very organized way. Some people commented on the secret compartment being redundant. I think it was intended to be a curiosity, and like it very much, no matter how few things could fit in there. I'd stuff it with thousand dollar bills myself. I felt like it is a box first, an end table organizer second. Because of that *I give it a solid 7 in function*.

*NOTE- These scores are not out of line with what very many gave the box, so it isn't based on my personal bias.* I welcome Charles to rate mine, even though I suspect it won't be nearly as high as I rated his because he has a professional eye for these things, which I lack.

BOX #2 (Stumpy Nubs) Since it is my box, I get to give a more detailed explanation of my process…

*Form*-

Because of conversations with Charles, I gathered that he would be making a standard lidded box. I knew that box would be exceptional, so if I was going to have a shot at winning, I had to take a risk and make something truly unique. Frankly, I was surprised that I didn't get more points for making my own innovative design which pushed the limits of what people were expecting. I rolled those dice and it didn't work out. Too many people didn't like the art deco look, and that hurt me more than anything. But if I had it to do over again I would take the same risk, because I was never going to beat Charles head to head on a simple box.

The idea of the form was inspired by the art deco radios of the 1920's and 30's. Those radios were inspired by the iconic skyscrapers of the era- the Empire State Building, etc. So I wanted a sense of height. That's why the clock was small. Originally I was going to put a bigger clock in the center of the front. But a tower would have a small clock toward the top, and it would also give the sense of looking up at something far away.










The choice of wood was based on the style of those clocks. Many of them were a dark plastic material called bakelite, which I imitated with the black walnut. Using contrasting woods on the outside, as some suggested, would have distracted from the form, which was supposed to draw the eyes UP like a tall building. My scores were greatly hurt by the small amount of sapwood. I personally like walnut sapwood, and left it intentionally on the back edges. It is found evenly on both sides of the box, but the photos don't show that. I could have stained it, but I hate to use any stains or dyes on walnut. The wood is just too beautiful to alter. I know professionals will argue that sapwood should be avoided, but in walnut, I disagree.










I also wanted to really challenge myself by using scrap firewood for the project. It would have been easy to go to the mill and pick up some flawless walnut. But I think it is a lot more difficult (and that's part of what this was all about) to take wood everyone else considers junk, and mill it into something beautiful. These weren't logs, they were the 1 to 2 foot reject cutoffs that the mill throws away. One of the workers takes them home and sells them by the cord for firewood. I bought a ton of it and dried it for three years. The surprise is you never know what you have until you mill it. You seldom get perfectly clear pieces.

Someone said the drawers were not grain matched. That's not true. All of the parts, including the doors were resawn from thicker stock and book matched. The drawer fronts were all sawn from on thick piece. The fact is, the pattern on spalted wood changes the deeper you get into the board. But the colors (darker on the top, lighter on the bottom) were consistent.










Finish- A lot of people simply hated the finish. Some said that Charles would NEVER allow a piece with raw wood to be seen. Well, that was unavoidable. I'm not going to be accused of making any excuses, so I'll state the simple fact. Something came up and I ran out of time. It has one coat of oil just to bring out the grain. Before it is given away it will be properly finished. I know that hurt me more than anything else, but it is what it is…










All of these things together make up the "form" category. Other than the finish I was very pleased with the form, it was unique, it's features had distinct purpose that, unfortunately, were not evident with the photos, and that's why* I give it an 8*.

*Joinery*…

One of the very first comment left said they saw some putty on the dovetails. There are two kinds of hand cut dovetails- hard ones and impossible ones. Anyone who has ever tried to cut dovetails with spalted wood understands what I mean. It is "punky", the sharpest saw tears it, the sharpest chisel smashes it. And then it all crumbles on the delicate ends. It can't be done without some sort of stabilizer. That's that they saw. In real life, unless you knew it, you probably wouldn't notice it. One thing I am good at is cutting dovetails (I learned from Tommy MacDonald if anyone else wants to learn). But what would clearly be cheating with hardwood, is impossible to avoid with spalted wood. That's another risk I took in this project, and I would still do it because I love the spalted drawer fronts.










This project had almost every kind of joinery, which was intentional because I was trying to showcase my abilities- again, that's what a contest is for. Besides the dovetails there were the tiniest dados I've ever cut in the drawers, which held in the floating solid wood bottoms. Rabbets were used to attach the major panels, which revealed a bit more end grain than some wanted to see at the top of the box sides, but I thought that preferable to seeing it on the box top when someone is standing up in the room. Miter joints would have eliminated this problem, but my table saw is of lesser quality than Charles Neils', and miter joints along a long edge like that would have taken ages to perfect. Miter joints were used on the ribs where they wrapped from the front onto the top. Butt joints were used on the side blocks where they met the bottom panel. The only joint not used was mortise and tenon. I was quite pleased with the verity, and aside from the issues I mentioned, I think the joinery was as well done as a 3rd year woodworker could ever do, that's why *I gave it an 8.*

*Function*-

This is where I really wanted to stand out from Charles, and it's where I did the best in the voting. I began the build with the function in mind first, the form and joinery was second. I thought hard about what I would like to have hidden away in a cabinet. One think I hate is a box of kelenex sitting in full view. So it was essential that it go in there. The box's size was based around that one thing! I also wanted separate drawers for separate things. Remote controls, video game controller, whatever you may not want on the end table where your dog can get it to chew on. Finally, and almost as important as the Kleenex was for it to function as a valet. I want to put my wallet, wrist watch, pens and pencils, pocket change, whatever is poking me in the leg when I sit down in a safe place. One of the drawers works perfectly for that. So the usefulness of the box is extensive, and I thought it really excelled in that area.

The size is another issue for some, and I can understand that. When you want to fit a lot inside, especially that Kleenex box, you do have to make it a bit large. But in reality it is just over a foot tall, less than 6 inches deep, only 9 inches wide. It looks much larger in the photos.










Some have said the way it opens is awkward, and having to lift the lid AND open the drawer to get the remote is too much. However, it is intended that the most often accessed items would be kept in the top tray, not the drawer. But I agree with the lid being a bit awkward. In fact, the original design called for bi-fold drawers in the front rather than a hinged lid on top. It was changes at the last minute because someone made a lucky guess based on their misunderstanding of a comment on one of the threads. They took it to mean that I was saying I was making a cabinet. I didn't say that, but the person took it that way, and he was right! He then posted that on the public forum, which would have ruined the entire surprise about who made which box. So I had to alter the design or risk compromising the purpose of the contest. I do like the lid, it has a really nice fit when slips down over the front. The edges slip into slots behind the blocks on the sides of the box, so you really can't tell that there is any opening to the "radio" at all. But it is a bit clumsy and would make it impractical to place the box directly against a wall. That hurt my socre in my own mind and is the main reason for my giving it *an 8 in function.*

*Anyway you add it up, Charles won, even I voted for his over mine. The best box was #1, without question! But here's the actual stats on the voting- *
We voted on three catagories because we didn't want this to be a simple up or down vote. It is nice to know which box excelled at which catagory.

FORM: Charles won this easily. He recieved a score of 911 while Stumpy got 749. 
JOINERY: Charles won this too with a score of 913 to Stumpy's 790.
FUNCTION: Here Stumpy won with a score of 790 over Charles' 783.

The total scores show that Stumpy at least was able to hang with the best (Charles): 2607-2329, meaning Charles won by a bit less than 10%. The average total score (people's three scores added up) was a close 26.1 points per vote for Charles, and 23.3 points per vote for Stumpy.

(Note: Charles requested that a handful of votes be disqualified to avoind a conflict of interest. I chose only two that I thought were clearly in violation of his wishes. It changes the score very little, but it was very important to avoid any appearance of tampering!)

*CHARLES NEIL vs STUMPY NUBS: The motion picture…*

Charles and I have both talked about making a film to document this process. It will be part of an upcoming episode of The Stumpy Nubs show for shure, and I think Charles may be working on something soon, so stay tuned. It woul dbe fun to see the actual workshop proces, with all my sarcasm and dangerous push blocks- wouldn't it?

*Auction*: The charity auction is going on NOW- GO BID FOR A GOOD CAUSE! It broke a thousand bucks by 10:00 this morning!

PLEASE LEAVE YOUR COMMENTS (now that the makers and the winner has been revealed)- GOOD AND BAD (but NO ARGUING) BELOW. *WE WANT TO HEAR THEM!*


----------



## bubbyboy (Jan 10, 2011)

Jim, I thought you did a great job!! The time and effort you put into this should be applauded, Thank You very much for all your efforts it has been fun. 
Ron


----------



## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Well done stumpy.


----------



## racerglen (Oct 15, 2010)

Congratulations to you BOTH !
Fine work and a real blast to follow the trash talkin', the whole process.
And gee, not that far apart in judging by a jury of your "peers"

;-)


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Thanks! It has been a looooooooooooooong week and a half (almost), and it's not quite over yet. But I would do it again in a heartbeat! (Even though I would still lose!)

I can't thank Charles and his people enough!


----------



## rrdesigns (Sep 4, 2009)

Thanks for the detailed info. I enjoyed watching the contest reveal itself like fish on a line waiting to be weighed. It is unfortunate that, for whatever reasons I can't imagine, a few people felt the need to spoil the fun with nasty comments. I'm glad you and Charles rose above it all in the end. I look forward to more posts from you on LJ's. They are often enlightening and your humor always keeps the ball rolling. Kudos to you.

My condolences to you and your family for the recent loss of your father-in-law.


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

It's all over but the bidding Charles box is up to $1025 lets hope it goes much higher because the proceeds goes to Wounded Warriors

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130598199371?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649


----------



## mikema (Apr 27, 2011)

Stumpy, you and Charles both should be very proud of the effort you guys put into this.

Both projects are very well done, and show a show a lot of effort that went into them. It is also good to see that both projects are going to benefit someone in need.

That said, Stumpy I am very sorry to hear about your family's loss, and my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family during this difficult time.

It was fun watching this unfold. Well done!


----------



## pierce85 (May 21, 2011)

A big thank you to Stumpy for organizing this event and congratulations to both of you!


----------



## REK (Aug 30, 2009)

Very good Stumpy, may I say I voted for your item!!!! I think most of us could tell the difference and knew the
Charles work from the stumpy work.

Lumber Jocks has a wide variety of skill levels from expert to beginner. I looked at this from the perspective of
how would it work in my house. In my house we have 14 remotes, and 3 TVs. I liked yours better because I
live in a 700 sq foot house and everything has to use space efficiently. We have grand kids, your box looked as if it would take a nice beating and keep on ticking.

Both boxes look as they could last for generations, both boxes had unique designs, both of you were excellent sportsman. I also preferee the original agreement that you were to exchange boxes. I don't think that has ever
been done before on LJ's.


----------



## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

Stumpy, will yours be auctioned as well ?


----------



## Pdub (Sep 10, 2009)

Congrats to Charles on the win. Stumpy, you should hold your head up high and be proud of your "box". You did a great job!
Charles- I hope you get a boat load of money for your box/charity!

Stumpy- I'm sorry for your family's loss! Stay strong.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*David*, the rules said the boxes would be given away. I later agreed, at Charles request, to auctioning the boxes, but on that very day (I think, I will have to go back to check the exact timeline) my father-in-law died and I decided that giving it as a condolance gift would do the most good. I assure you my box wouldn't have brought NEAR what Charles' box is. I can make another for charity if it will get people off my back about it, but I make more donations to good causes than anyone else I know, and this has nothing to do with me not wanting to support charity.

I know you didn't say that, I just have gotten a lot of crap from a lot of people over it and I want the record set straight.


----------



## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Congratulations and thank you to both contestants.

Stumpy - Thank you for all your time spent in both the building and the overall organization of this event. I am sorry about your recent loss.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Thanks Chuck.


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Well it was fun, enjoyed it, win lose or draw it made for alot of fun and I see no winners or losers.

Im at a loss for all the big fancy equiptment stumpy refered to, I have looked all over and cant find it, the box was rough shaped with some router bits and then finished up with a pull shave and a hand plane, then some scrapers, and the miters were cut on either a chop saw or table saw, the secret to a nice miter is a good blade and a light cut, meaning, cut close then in a nice fluid motion, do the final cut,, "sneak up on it".
There was no sketchup or plan , just a thought and a scrap hunk of 12/4 tiger maple, and some curly claro walnut, thought, this will look good , so off I went, sized the box based on the yield of the wood and what I though would fit the bill, it will hold about 4 remotes ,depending on size, but for me I wanted something stylish with a little flair but not overwhelming , and the secret compartment was a "why not', things like this sell products, I thought of a chest, but then decided that most end and coffee tables usually have a lamp or vase, and anything of height would compete, or in the case of a coffee table be a view obstruction ,so I elected to keep it simple. 
Thats about it, not much else to say, so time to get back to making sawdust ( never stopped), and maybe we will do it again some time. Auction is running and hope it does well for the Wounded Warriors


----------



## Letorix (Jul 19, 2011)

One of the reasons I knew who created what, was the form of Box #1 would a great how lesson from a master, and a good way to get some endorsements from certain mfg, for the router bits and such to make that box. Not only was it just great classical form, but it was great business too. Plus I knew Charles would never display a piece of work on a Formica counter top. I guess it all comes down to attention to the details, and hence I'll always be in awe of you masters.

Good job both of you.


----------



## reggiek (Jun 12, 2009)

Great job and well thought out. I enjoyed reading the descriptions and posts. It was very interesting reading the comments and seeing what folks liked, didn't like or had suggestions about. Usually our critiques are just attaboys (attagirls also - perhaps attawoodworker?). I am guilty of this myself sometimes…but in my defense…I find that I will like a project but just don't have any good suggestions to add.

Thank you both for a very fun and interesting contest…and for some very nice projects!


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

well Letorix, I didn't do this to promote anything, and won't , I dont have much in the way of sponsors, we are pretty much self sustaining, and the majority of our income is from client projects, and our display was a couple of 
furniture blankets over a table and back draped over a tool box , we did shake them out a bit,,


----------



## Letorix (Jul 19, 2011)

Charles somethings become ingrained and are done subconsciously, and even if the blanket was dusty, it provides focus on the piece and not the surroundings  . I'm just happy and amazed you did it! VERY COOL, VERY COOL indeed!


----------



## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*. . . . . . . . . . Box #1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Box #2

. . . Form . . . Joinery . .Function . . . Total . . . . . . . . Form . . . Joinery . . . Function . . .Total

. . . . 911 . . . . . 913 . . . . 783 . . . .2607 . . . . . . . . . 749 . . . . . 790 . . . . . .790 . . . 2329*

*Due to errors in my file, earlier, here are the corrected totals.
*

Stumpy, thank you for letting me volunteer to maintain the spreadsheet… it was FUN!


----------



## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Charles, it's all those little tidbits that you share(d), like in post #15, that are priceless pieces of gold for us beginners or near beginners. Thank you so much.


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

mike that snek up on it will serve you well in every thing, I never cut a piece to final width or length until the fast second, and when ripping for a glue line I always do the inital rip a little wider than say 1/8 , then do what I call a skim cut, meaning, just take the final 1/16 from each side, in a steady fluid motion, does much nicer, and less chip out issues, as to length, I always try to use a stop block and then a scrap to "confirm", the number of times I had to move 1/32 or so are too many to count,, again,, "Sneak Up On It ", he he he ,.. I have tee shirts that say that,,


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*Charles*- While I did say you had nicer tools than me (I was specifically referring to the cabinet saw I see in your videos) I was not trying to say you couldn't have done it with my equipment, or even by hand with a sharp axe and a bastard file.

After 30 years, you ought to have a nicer saw than me! But that is NOT why you won!

Funny, my grandfather and my father both always used that same phrase: "sneak up on it". And my mother's famils is from Virginia. Maybe we're related.


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

I don't think we are related, if we were you would be a lot better looking and not be able to type as well  

ax wouldn't work, maybe an adz, and a course rock.. that would do it,, 

.............A JOKE FOLKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>>>>>


----------



## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*Stumpy & Charles*, thank you very much for a very nice event!

Kinda reminds of the old fashioned horse race in a western movie going down the center of town… out of town… and ending back in the center… *On the spur of the moment!* LOL… (intended)

*Both projects are very nice!*

*My first thought about Box #1:*
Another one of those little fancy boxes…
Then, later, after taking a closer look, it was NOT LITTLE!
Sure it was fancy… (really not my cup of tea)... but I could see it on any coffee table or end table filled with mixed nuts to be easy at hand and be very useful… I don't drink much beer anymore… BUT it gave me the true size of it… (at first I thought it was one of those little bottles one used to get on airlines with liquor in it… then when BEER was discussed, that box was *BIG!*)

*My first thoughts of box #2:*
Where are the speaker grille, dial, and knobs? A Radio of the same era… 
The lonely Clock left me short of what should have been there… IMHO.
The way the center section hinged back was quite unique & is a great idea!
Those drawers were beautifully done… nice dovetails… and very functional for little things that tend to clutter a room up… can easily be put out of sight. Very functional. I wasn't very sure how big they were.
I wasn't sure how big the whole piece was… It looked HUGE to me… which would be hard to place on a coffee or end table.

*The workmanship was "top drawer" in both pieces.*

It's nice to see Charles's box being auctioned OFF on eBay, going to charity, at a very handsome price! *Great!*

Stumpy, what are you going to do with your box? Are you going to use eBay too?

*Thank you both for a very nice event… it was FUN…!!*


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Joe fancy isnt my cup of tea either, but figured it would throw folks off a bit, like contemporary, not what I'm best know for, but I do alot of it,, here are some of my typical boxes, so again, I wanted to throw a curve ball, guess it didn't work as well as planned http://www.cn-woodworking.com/boxes/


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*Joe*- You CAN put that box on your endtable and fill it with mixed nuts! All you have to do is be the winning bidder! I bet, even if you lose the bidding, Charles would make you one for just what the bidding is at right now (a bit over a thousand bucks!) Of course, then you'd have to take drinking back up again after paying that bill!

As for size, the footprint that my box would take up on an endtable is almost exactly the same as Charles' box would. Mine is taller at 14", though. Charles made a good point about the height competing with a lamp on an endtable. I don't have lamps on mine, so it didn't occur to me! I looked at it like this- people who like those old radios put them on their endtables with no problem. They are actually designed for that, to really stand out as a piece of furniture. But those who are not fans of that kind of thing may think it too big. I can see it both ways. I planned on turning some knobs on the lathe, but just ran out of time.


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Woah, wait a min, back up here a bit, to post #23… stumpy, you actually was able to make it thru one of my videos,, I am amazed,, miracles never cease to happen,, who would have thunk !!!! 

( joking folks ) just playing a bit,,

one last thing stumpy, I am sorry for the 'stupie and stupid comments ", the "nuts " thing, well the verdict is still out


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

HAAAAAAAAA!

I can get through any video if I have a bottle of Wild Turkey. Problem is I can't follow along with the build in my shop, hard to cut those lines straight with the bottle in my right hand and a push stick my left.

That's right, I am all about shop safety. I ALWAYS use a push stick!


----------



## longgone (May 5, 2009)

Since this was all about having fun and being creative…everone won …including all of us who have enjoyed this from start to finish. I like curvy designs and I like art deco designs …so both are a winner in my viewpoing.
Thanks guys!!!!


----------



## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*Stumpy:*
*
Joe- You CAN put that box on your endtable and fill it with mixed nuts! All you have to do is be the winning bidder!

*

Do you have a link to where your box is?


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I meant Charles' box, the one you said would look good on an endtable filled with mixed nuts.

Personally a box that nice should be filled with $1000 bills. But I don't have any, can you spare a few?


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

here ya go Joe, remember, its a great cause and ya cant take it with ya, http://www.ebay.com/itm/130598199371?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649


----------



## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

I cashed my last Grover Cleveland several years ago…
... saved and saved an extra C-note once in awhile…
... tried to get another Grover Cleveland, 1K, and was told that they didn't make them anymore…
...* I was really SORRY I cashed my other one in!*
... that was back in the 1980's!

Have they started making them again?


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Nope.

And even if they did, I wouldn't have any. I'm more of an Abe Lincoln guy.


----------



## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Yeah Joe, I think they call them "Susan B Anthonys" now… and they clink…

*;-)*


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Thanks Greg.


----------



## shopdog (Nov 9, 2008)

Thanks to both of you,
Great contest…lots of fun.
If there was a category for class…
I'd give you both a 10


----------



## jeepturner (Oct 3, 2010)

Congratulations all the way around for the building of the boxes, the contest, and the way both of you handled the little bits of impoliteness that comes with the territory these days. 
Thanks for letting me be a judge, although I must say I can understand why I never done any judging before. There are many more qualified than myself. 
I hope that Charles Neil's box goes for a mint, and I hope Stumpy's is enjoyed for ages. 
Thanks again.


----------



## Dave139 (Nov 7, 2011)

Stumpy, Where can I see this woodworking video you made? As a "Yooper' It'd be interesting to see your portrayal.


----------



## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*HorizM:*
*
"Yeah Joe, I think they call them "Susan B Anthonys" now… and they clink…"* LOL…

If they were* Gold Rounds (1 once)*, a $1,000 coin would be a good deal… with Gold being worth $1,790 at this time... Buy'em at 1,000 Sell'em at 1,790 … Yes!

*Well, I can Dream can't ? . . LOL*

.

*Hey, that box could contain a few coins too! . . . Yes?!*


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

DAVE- The "Yooper" spoof was just for that episode. Regular episodes are coming soon. Almost done…


----------



## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

both of you guys nailed what this site is all about. A bunch of folks with a common interest in creating things to the best of our abilties. Im sure that both of you worked hard on your projects and to raffle them away for chairty speaks volumes about character. Thanks for bringing everyone "home" again.


----------



## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*WOW!

The eBay bids on Charles's box is really GOING!

$1,525.00 as of now…

Awesome!*


----------



## rrdesigns (Sep 4, 2009)

WOW is right! That's crazy! Bet you two never saw this coming.


----------



## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

I can see how it goes down…....30 years from now. Yep sonny that there is the VERY box that C. N. built in the Great table box/cabinet build off in…..what was it now…. oh yeah 2011. You should have seen it sonny. Name calling, bickering, stabbings; the chips really flew. In the end every one had a good time and very little blood was spilt.
Hell; we used saws with no guards back then


----------



## steviep (Feb 25, 2011)

Charles, thank you for giving your talents to wounded warriors. My step-son is in the 101st airborne and just got back from Afghanistan this year. You are All class, all the way.

Steve


----------



## dakremer (Dec 8, 2009)

That truly is amazing how much it is going for on Ebay!!! way to go guys!!!!


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*Charles and I discussed the possibility* that some with the means may bid generously help a worthy cause in so public an event. We even gave each other our guesses about how much Wounded Warriors might receive. But the current bid is already a bit above expectations, and I hope it goes even higher.

*I think it is worth noting that the auction doesn't say Charles Neil made the box!* It only says that it was from the Lumber Jocks Challenge, and that "CNW" (only the company initials) will be donating the proceeds to Wounded Warriors. People often open their wallets wide for a good cause.

*Jumbo*- I think that last line should have said "that was back when saws were affordable for people like us because they didn't have to stop spinning when the blade touched a hotdog!"


----------



## semi75 (Jun 17, 2010)

Box critique aside, let's talk photo staging.

I do have one complaint regarding Charles's box, the picture with the Butwiper beer bottle and pretzels really did such a beautiful box an injustice. :O

I do have to give Stumpy a great deal of credit on his staging for the photos, I had to chuckle at the tissue box.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I was the one who suggested he post that beer and pretzels photo! I'm glad it made an impression on you!


----------



## usnret (Jul 14, 2011)

Stumpy and Charles , you guys are both excellent craftsman. Both boxes are amazing. Charles you are definitely a stand up guy in my book and have my utmost respect because you are donating the money to The Wounded Warrior's Project. I have many brother's and sister's that have served in Iraq and Afghanistan. Many good men and women have paid the ultimate sacrifice. Thanks for donating to such a worthy cause Charles.

PS I like your videos too.


----------



## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

excellent work
from the both of you

*jim*

sorry for your families loss
may all remember your father in law
thru this work

*charles*

way to go
God bless all our veterans
past and present


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

When will the radio box be auctioned?


----------



## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

Hey, Topa Read post 10 and 12 for the answer (I asked the same thing). Understood, Stumpy and condolences to you and family on loss of father-in-law.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Sorry to hear about your father in law Stumpy.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I estimated my box would bring about $100 for charity, which wouldn't even help one person much. But as a condolence gift it will do far greater good. I'll make a private donation of cash too. Either way, I am not profiting from it, just as Charles isn't from his. And all the people who've been on my back about it (not you Topa or David) are *surely making a cash donation to charity this week for this too, right?* Or does that standard only apply to me and Charles?...

If an auction would have brought $1500 for it, I would have sold it and made a new one for the gift. $1500 can do a lot of good. But since mine is small potatoes, and the body is already getting cold, I'm not going to say no to someone who wants THIS box.

But let's face it folks- Mine is no Charles Neil original and I don't have the loyal following of generous clients he has. So both boxes are going to do the most good they can, considering what they are.

Thanks Topa!


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Stumpy, those clients are like knowledge , earned one build at a time ,over alot of years, and alot of sacrifice … they don't come easy, work to do, later


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Charles- Of course they are. Nobody can say you haven't earned every single one. Some day I hope to be at least half way to where you are! There is absolutely no jealousy here, only admiration.

*EVERYONE*- By the way (or BTW as the kids say),* I started editing the footage from the shop last week*. Got some of my side of the box build. It's going to make an interesting little show for everybody who wants a free laugh! Should be ready soon…


----------



## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

Thanks Stumpy & Charles for all the work you've put into this thread. I think *BOTH* boxes are above average when compared to what most of us make. My condolences go out to you and your family Stumpy, sorry to hear about the loss of you father-in-law.


----------



## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

Stumpy, you know to get the enough thrust for pigs to fly depends on proper thrust vectoring.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

What's our vector, Victor? 
We have clearance, Clarence.
Roger, Roger.

For those who don't know what that means, google it… and watch more TV.


----------



## RiverWood (Nov 4, 2010)

The best thing that can come of this is that chuckie will redeem himself and donate 100 percent of the money to wounded warriors. Easy to see when he donates it this time. This amount of money I am sure they will acknowledge on their website. There seemed to be a huge difference in what he has previously claimed.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*Totally uncool*, River. Neither you nor anyone else has any idea what people donate to charity, and that is an accusation that should not be made without evidence to back it up. I don't know what he donates and I don't care, but I would NEVER call someone a liar like that…

This is a good thing, and I fail to see how causing conflict like that is called for!

*If Charles reads that, I hope he doesn't even bother commenting on it. *He needs not justify to anyone what he does and doesn't give to charity. I darn well never would!


----------



## Trapshter (Nov 5, 2011)

Let's get something straight his name is not Chuckie. His name is Charles. However you should refer to him as Mr Neil.As to his integrity he would never take money in the name of a charity and not give all of it to them . I resent your accusation. It's people like you (riverwood) that turn something that was meant to be fun, into something that makes my blood boil. I am proud to say that Charles is friend of mine. I know him personally and have spent time in Virgina at his home and he has spent time here in N.Y. At my home. I speak with him not only about woodworking but about life and how our day went. I know the kind of person he is .If you had any idea what you have just said knowing him and what he has done for people you would be very ashamed of what you have just suggested. Writing this I have gone from MAD to SAD. That's right I feel very sad for you. You need to get another out look of life. I will pray for you. God Bless
Jm


----------



## Trapshter (Nov 5, 2011)

You know STumpy your all right with me . Your a good sport . Nice job and good luck to you 
Jm


----------



## mikema (Apr 27, 2011)

Stumpy and Charles, don't let naive and unfounded comments like Riverwood's get to you. What both of you have accomplished is truly a great accomplishment. The work you guys did was fun and as a result at least $1525 is going to a good cause. Both of you have gained my respect. Keep up the great work!


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I don't know Riverwood, maybe he's a great guy who just made a stupid comment. But I refuse to let this thread get spoiled. So I will not be allowing him to continue on this thread. Sorry, I worked TOO HARD to take a risk with this crap. He's one of only two people that are now on my block list, so he's accomplished something hard to do.

Maybe you love Charles Neil, maybe you hate his guts. Maybe you think I'm a moron in a funny hat or a giant sack of skivvies. *Use PMs to discuss it, NOT this thread.*

Let's just let it go right now. The next person to make a beligerant comment that is designed only to cause problems will be all done on these threads. And believe me, I have some more things in store later on that you don't want to be blocked from in the future.

*As for Charles*, I suspect he has already seen that comment (though I hope he hasn't) and hasn't even given it the time of day (which I hope he doesn't)

*So, enough said, we are moving on. *


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*On a better note…*

I spent the day editing the video from last week's workshop activities. Besides the ins and outs of this big event, we were working on mini-cabinet maker's bench. Fitting since I made a mini cabinet on it. 

The bench is a traditional all hardwood bench with tail and face vises, dog holes, the whole shot. BUT, it's only 4 feet long so it fits in any small shop that just wants a little place in the corner for hand tool work. AND, I tell how to make it entirely out of hardwood for next to nothing!

*I should have it up here on LJs in a few days!*


----------



## Jeff_F (Oct 8, 2009)

If RiverWood would bother to look at Charles's website you will see that the Charles Neil Woodworkers team has raised $5,420 for the Wounded Warrior Project. The $2,795 listed under Charles Neil's name represents money that was donated anonymously. When someone donates anonymously, it gets combined under the host's name. It would be nice for RiverWood to supply his real name so we can check to see if he is on the list….

CN Team page:

http://wwpproudsupporter.kintera.org/faf/search/searchTeamPart.asp?ievent=308932&lis=1&kntae308932=BB9EEED27ED442C9A71166B8ED60E479&supId=0&team=4191822&cj=Y


----------



## bubbyboy (Jan 10, 2011)

Well, As I said back in the very first post I think both of you guys did a terrific job, and I for one appreciate having the ability to just follow along and watch the progress without feeling the need to criticize anyone. I think both of you did a good thing and a simple Thank You would be enough from anyone. So, *THANK YOU*
By the way I don't live in a glass house so no rocks from me. 
Ron


----------



## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Hahahahaha…I got it Stumpy!!!! It finally dawned on me, I thought your avatar looked very familiar and just now it hit me, you look like the artist formerly known and Prince (at least on this avatar).... 

Ok, now to the boxes. It was clear from the beginning box one was made by Mr. Neil. The give away was the flawless finish. After all lets remember he is a professional wood worker, you are not. Under these circumstances I think you held your own very well. Although at the beginning I thought the challenge was a bit unfair (after all just because we both drink water it would have been unfair for me to challenge Mr. Neil to design a water treatment plant) it turned out a fun contest where we all won. Kudos buddy!

River, I am no fan of Mr. Neil, but you stepped over the line.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Not sure if that's supposed to be a compliment or not- but that avatar is really what I look like. Ain't I pretty!


----------



## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

Well done Guys.


----------



## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

Congratulations to both of you.
What a great idea you came up with and followed through on.

I, too, hope to see more of these fun challenges between friends.

(Stumpy, sorry to hear about your loss.)


----------



## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Not sure if that's supposed to be a compliment or not- but that avatar is really what I look like. Ain't I pretty!

Of course it is a compliment, while Prince might be weird, he is very talented. As to the pretty thing….keep repeating yourself that… )))


----------



## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Stumpy,

Good job! As Charles said. " Gotta get to work." Looking forward to seeing an evoloution in your work projects. Everyone has an opinion. Our country, which veterans still serve, supports the right of free speech. I may not agree with what and how some peoples children express themselves, but I support their right to say it.

When I was in the service, I use to say to people, who said to me "A salute is a sign of respect," "In civilian life people had to earn MY RESPECT." i HAVE KNOWN cHARLES AND HIS BEHAVIOR FOR MANY YEARS. AND HE HAS EARNED THE RESPECT OF MANY. I wonder about some of the people who use their right of free speach in this forum.

Veterans have a great day! You have earned it.

If you can LJ's, contribute to a program like Wounded Warriors. Many vets who have served well need our support.


----------



## kweinert (Nov 20, 2009)

Stumpy, a potential hint on cutting spalted wood.

I know that when I turn spalted wood for pens or ornaments I frequently use a thin CA and let it soak into the wood and set up. It usually takes 5 to 10 minutes (depending on the wood) to cure but it adds a lot of stability to the wood and helps prevent a lot of tear out.

You'll want to use the really thin stuff and let it soak in. You can apply to the end grain or the surface. You'll also want to do it somewhere that you have a lot of ventilation.

Since I've not tried it for cutting dovetails I can't guarantee it will make a difference but it might be worth a shot some time.

Thanks to both of you for the friendly competition.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Thanks for the tip kweinert.

Charles Neil also offered a tip on that- drown it in a 50/50 mix of white glue and water, let it dry.

Punky wood crumbles very easy. I prefer a chemical stabilizer, or an epoxy. But I'll give those other methods a try too!


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Part one of the video is finished. Will be posting it sometime this evening or tomorrow.

It's divided up into a couple of parts along with some other stuff. Hope you enjoy it.


----------



## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

thank you both for letting us follow this little competition 
I didn´t vote since I´m totely newbie and don´t know what to look for 
but I have enjoy´d every minut of it 
thank you Charles and Stumpy for inspiring us to do our best with what we have

take care
Dennis


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

The official first episode is going to be posted here on LJ's this weekend. For a sneak previes, visit Stumpynubs.com

The whole concept had been evened out a bit. I worked on my midwestern accent  So if you hated the first one, you will be happy to know that all the stuff you said you hated is now GONE!

We are doing 12 full length episodes a season, but since most people prefer a shorter video, we are breaking those episodes up into four parts of about 10 minutes each. One part will be released every 5-8 days.

Part one of episode one has a unique workbench build, and the beginning of the Charles Neil/Stumpy Nubs challange. Let me know what you think….


----------



## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

WOW! That was a CLOSE CALL with that router!

I think I would have used a router table… to keep that bit further away from me!
... using fence, stop blocks, & clamps to keep the workpiece under control.

I had no idea that you were going to be starting with a Workbench!
... BUT, I'll take it any way you want to present it.

You're doing a great job… keep it up…

Thank you for the Sneak…


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

If I was going to do it again, with THAT bit, I would use a table. But if the bit has a proper plunge cut end, using it like that is perfectly safe. The danger is using a bit with a smooth tip to make a recess that doesn't go all the way through. I knew better, but didn't think about it at the time. I suppose we all have that problem once in a while…

The Charles Neil contest wasn't intended to be part of the show. I was already working on a new bench for the podcast when this thing came up…

For those who don't know, I'm talking about the *router mishap* at the *end* of the current episode of my podcast (Stumpynubs.com)


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Thanks for watching Joe!


----------



## kweinert (Nov 20, 2009)

I might have not bottomed out the bit and just used a bit of chisel to clean out the remnants on the bottom of the sides there.

Wouldn't take much effort (presuming you have a chisel  and be a bit safer.

I do wish I lived where they were selling cutoffs like that for firewood though.


----------



## rrdesigns (Sep 4, 2009)

Router bits, in my humble opinion, are never perfectly safe under any conditions. I found that out the same way you nearly lost your nose when my thumb came frightening close to becoming mauled trying to make (my first ever) curved cut. Didn't know then what I do now. And I was using a router table. Jigs and clamps and no hands anywhere near the potential path that a spinning router bit or saw blade can drag you and your wood into are now my motto. And, when in doubt, be glad you still have your fingers and reach for those hand tools. Live and learn.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

kweinert- The design of the socket meant it had to be routed out entirely. I wasn't cleaning up an existing hole, wherever the router bit is set, that's the bottom because it's cutting the entire cavity.


----------



## kweinert (Nov 20, 2009)

Ah, that makes sense then - it wasn't apparent (at least to me  from the video.

You might think of a thin plate that you could put the router on that would span the entire opening to eliminate/reduce the tipping problem.

Of course, that's just the inverse of what someone else already suggested - doing it on a table. In essence a wider baseplate is just putting the table on top of the wood.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I think if I was to do it again I would most likely just hog most of the material out with a forstner bit and then use a chisel to clean it up. It would be a lot more work, but no need taking any undue risks…


----------



## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Well our idea was perfectly safe if you had used the method shown when cutting dovetails with a jig. Instead of going into the socket, you should have gone side to side and take small sections. In any case by the time you do this it takes just as long as doing it by hand with a piece this thick.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Actually, JG- that's what I did. I only took off about a quarter inch of wood per pass as I dug the socket out. The problem wasn't taking to much at once, or climb cutting, or anything at all except you should never use a bit without cutters on the tip to cut a recess only part way into wood. Those types of bits are designed to have their tips stuck through and out the other side of the wood, or mounted in a table and used to edge a board.

With the proper bit, there was nothing wrong with either the setup, or the technique.


----------



## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Perhaps I did not explain myself well enough. If you route side to side, if the router slips it goes either to the left or the right. ON the video it looked like it slipped towards you.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Ahhh, now I know what you mean. Yes, I was routing toward myself, trying to just take a tiny bit off to get to the line. If I had been going side by side, by slight tipping would have been in that direction and the router would have gone the other way. But that was impossible to do with the task that needed accomplishing. Unless I positioned my body differently, which, while it would have been awkward, would have been safer.


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

With the end of the auction this morning, this evet is officially over. Thanks for all your comments, your votes and your support!

We'll do it again sometime soon! (any challengers?)


----------



## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

another book finished

rhett went on to find another girl

charlote bought some more clothes

new orleans went on to win a super bowl

well done guys

thank you


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I challenge you to a dual …. Wet sponges at 30 feet from helicopters, you supply the helicopters. )


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

That's funny, I accept. You supply the money and the pilots and I'll go out and rent the helicopters.


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Who said anything about flying them? Money!!! What's that?


----------



## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

this was posted here on LJ , note the amount under my name

If RiverWood would bother to look at Charles's website you will see that the Charles Neil Woodworkers team has raised $5,420 for the Wounded Warrior Project. The $2,795 listed under Charles Neil's name represents money that was donated anonymously. When someone donates anonymously, it gets combined under the host's name. It would be nice for RiverWood to supply his real name so we can check to see if he is on the list….

CN Team page:

-Jeff, www.jeffswooddesigns.com

this is the same page Monday 11/14/2011 , the box brought 2025.00 , you do the math

http://wwpproudsupporter.kintera.org/faf/search/searchTeamPart.asp?ievent=308932&lis=1&kntae308932=985420F35F8D40B89DB006B1FF8B219B&supId=0&team=4191822&cj=Y

The winner has recieved reciept of the donation and NOW , it is done !


----------



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*WAIT A MINUTE!* That proves NOTHING! I want to see a photo of the box in the winner's house, and a bank statement from Wounded Warriors showing the donation in their account! THEN, I want the pen the check was signed with, and the desk it was signed on! That's the only way to be SURE…

...Never in doubt, Charles. Riverwood speaks only for himself, nobody else. And now that he has the figures, I suspect he'll stop speaking altogether.


----------



## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

I second that stumpy

Dennis


----------



## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

Fantastic!


----------

