# Can anything be put over shellac?



## natenaaron (Jun 24, 2013)

So, I was not able to find Seal Coat anywhere in the next big town over. The tru-value here cannot order it, neither can the lumber store, so based on my previous snafu Poly is out. I know it will absorb blotchy.. Is there anything I can put over Shellac as a protective coat? Will an automotive clearcoat adhere to the shellac? I really want to get this project done. I go back to work Wednesday and would feel bad if this was another summer project left undone.


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

I have seen lacquer work, but it was a professional grade of lacquer. You might try…. car wax.


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## shampeon (Jun 3, 2012)

Almost everything can go over shellac. Do a test panel and try it.


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

eh, it's usually best to stick to one type of finish to be honest, mixing certain chemicals can be risky. But like he said, make a test piece.


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## tefinn (Sep 23, 2011)

I use Deft and Minwax lacquer over shellac all the time. I also have used poly. It's not recommended but it will work. Danish oil over 1/2 lb cut shellac is another that I use then top coat with poly or lacquer.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

I don't know what you are building but shellac is a finish coat and will provide protection. Unless it's a dining table or maybe an end table, I'd just stick with shellac.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

How about a non-poly varnish? It's the polyurethane resins in those formulas that cause the adhesion problems, switching to a non-poly formula solves all that. You don't even really need to scuff sand between coats with them unless it's to smooth out the nibs. Try Sherwin Williams Fast Dry Oil Varnish (alkyd resin/linseed oil formula) or Pratt And Lambert 38 (alkyd resin/soya oil). I do agree with Rick that shellac is a good finish on it's own; it's underrated by most folks. But for things that have wear, a good varnish works well.


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## natenaaron (Jun 24, 2013)

This is a coffee table so it will see some heavy use and propping up of feet. Shellac scratches too easy and was wanting something as a top protective layer. I thought anything would go on top of shellac but when my finish blew off the top, literally, I am now pretty gun shy.

I will look for varnish


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

+1 on anything can go over shellac.

Shellac is the original seal coat.

You can even cover Vaseline stains with shellac and then paint over it like it was never there.


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## Hammerthumb (Dec 28, 2012)

I would assume it was regular shellac and not de-waxed that you had problems with, as almost anything can go over de-waxed shellac. I have also heard of woodworkers letting the waxed shellac sit undisturbed for a while and you will notice the wax settling to the bottom. The shellac can then be removed from the can leaving the wax at the bottom. You could then use this as the final coat of shellac prior to other finishes. There was another thread going round on LJs where someone asked if there had been any personal observations where poly did not adhere to a regular shellac surface. You might want to chime in on that thread to save the guy some problems. I have no experience with waxed shellac and non-poly varnish as stated by Fred Hargis, but do not see why this would not work. Try a test piece. Good luck!


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

I think it is more correct that anything can go over *dewaxed *shellac. Seal Coat is the dewaxed stuff, which you were not able to find.

From the highly recommended book Understanding Wood Finishes by Bob Flexner:
The wax slightly reduces the transparency of the shellac on the wood. It also makes the shellac less water resistant, and it prevents good bonding when reactive and coalescing finishes (varnish, two-part finishes, and water base) are applied over shellac.

EDIT:
Paul beat me to this response. The method of dewaxing the shellac yourself that Paul refers to is also covered in Flexner's book.


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## ClintSearl (Dec 8, 2011)

Your experience is yet another recurring example of the fallacy of starting every finishing project with shellac.

Do it right: strip it and finish with only waterborne poly floor finish. If it's tough enough to walk on, it's tough enough to put a coffee cup on.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Quote: I will look for varnish.

Nate, the polyurethane you used was/is varnish. Thanks to Norm, stupid finishing company marketing, and probably several other things many folks think of "poly" as a different finish than varnish. Varnish is a finish made by cooking a resin (normally one of polyurethane, urethane, alkyd, phenolic) with a drying oil (normally linseed oil, but can also be tung oil or soya oil, maybe some lesser known ones) and the result is varnish. So what most folks call "poly" is (maybe) more correctly varnish, just made with polyurethane resins. Some of the waterborne finishes are now being called "poly" as well, and they are actually just an acrylic waterborne finish like most others, with a dollop of polyurethane resins added. Whether shellac is dewaxed or not is only important if you plan to top coat with a poly finish…otherwise, pretty much all the other stuff will stick to it.


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## natenaaron (Jun 24, 2013)

I prepped and sprayed the metal portions of the table with enamel clear coat. Will that work for the table top.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

When you say "will it work", without knowing a little more about exactly which one it is, I'd say it will stick (back to what I said about the urethane resins earlier). Whether it would look good and meet your criteria is your call.


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## RogerM (Oct 31, 2011)

Seal Coat is nothing more than dewaxed shellac diluted with alcohol. Try mixing your own Seal Coat if you would still like to go that route. I have used it for a number of years with ecellent results. You can easily order Seal Coat from Rockler for around $15.50 a quart.

You do not indicate where you are located so not sure about your local suppliers. Both Loews and Home Depot stock Seal Coat.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Dewaxed shellac accepts all kinds of finishes that's one of it's best attributes .When you have finishes that are not compatible use a coat of dewaxed shellac before adding the material that's not compatible with your existing finish. Before applying any top coat always do a light sanding with 400-600 grit .


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## natenaaron (Jun 24, 2013)

Thanks. The Zinsser people said the same thing. At this time I have sprayed many coats of shellac. I am going to rub it out to a semi gloss and call it good. If I find some seal coat I'll put a top coat on. Sometimes you just got to call it good.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Just don't spill any alcoholic drinks on it. The other thing to do is step away from the project for a while and process what is possible.

Hope it works out.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

The nice thing about shellac is it is very easy to repair.


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## Finisherman (May 3, 2013)

If you want to use shellac, you still have a couple of options, other than seal coat. You can use shellac in an aerosol can, which is dewaxed. You can also order dewaxed shellac flakes and mix them with denatured alcohol yourself. Most anything will bond to shellac, provided it's dewaxed. Solvent based lacquer will also bond to waxed shellac, at least in my experience.


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## nztoolie (Aug 1, 2013)

As far as i am concerned shellac is one of the best furniture finishes there is. sure water can damage it, you can also repair it fairly easily.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

I have some side tables finished in shellac, never had any issues with water glasses but a relative set a mixed drink on one and it made a blemish. I do normally use coasters.


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## natenaaron (Jun 24, 2013)

The shellac looks real good. It is easy to repair and, since this is supposed to be a rustic thing, I am hoping it will show some wear. So far every thing is turning out exactly as I want it to and if the wearing works I will have accomplished my goal. I will look to see if there is any spray shellac in town though.

Does the spray/dewaxed shellac need to be put on in several coats or will like 2 be alright?


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

I have had good luck with pre-cat lacquer sprayed over shellac.

Keep the project out of direct sunlight as it dries, otherwise the gremlins will multiply.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

My understanding of finishes comes from Charles Neil. I would refer you to all his wonderful material on finishing. He even has a online class and as I understand it written a book to go with the course.

It is my understanding that you can use alternate water borne and oil based products when building up a finish. That said has anyone tried water borne poly finishes on top of shellac? The other issue when using oil substances like linseed oil we have to be VERY patient and let it dry really well.

On my next project I'm going to use the stain sealer, an oil based stain, water bourne poly followed by the oil based. Should be very durable and sand able?


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

I have applied an oil-base finish followed by dewaxed shellac followed by water-based poly with good results on several projects. My coffee cup is currently sitting on such a wooden coaster that I made about two years ago and it has held up well.


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

Anything can go over *dewaxed* shellac. Since you mentioned you could not find SealCoat (which is dewaxed shellac), can I assume you are using waxed shellac? If so, I'm not sure anything would really go over it well.


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## natenaaron (Jun 24, 2013)

Yep. Used regular old shellac. The only way to get ANYTHING to stick is to apply a couple layers of dewaxed. I have been doing lots of reading and mine was just another instance proving that you cannot put anything ontop of shellac because of the wax. Sounds like some folks have had some luck so far and maybe their finish will last for quite some time but I have learned my lesson.

Now I just need to find a place to buy some dewaxed shellac.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Try searching for "how to dewax shellac".


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## shampeon (Jun 3, 2012)

The best price I've seen for (dewaxed) shellac flakes is Luthier's Mercantile.
http://www.lmii.com/products/finishing/finishes/shellac-french-polishing-materials

SealCoat is convenient, but mixing your own is very simple as well, and you can get a number of different colors of flakes.


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