# Naked Woodworker Bench vs English Woodworker Bench for newish woodworker?



## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

I have collected various hand and power tools over the years and have built various furniture and boxes etc. But more DIY stuff, kreg jig construction etc. But its time to build a proper bench and I want to start using more hand tools. My latest project was a wedding album box with handcut dovetails. I would like to have a better place to make things like this rather than clamping things to my table saw. And would like to gather a complete set of hand tools. After doing some research, I think what makes the most sense for me time wise, skill, and financially, is either the Naked Woodworker bench, or the English Woodworker workbench. I don't want to buy both sets of videos since I would rather put the money into tools, as I still need better saws, and some planes etc. But am wondering which of these plans would be best for somebody trying to gain skills and build a decent bench. 
Does either of these video series have more/better tips for learning skills for a newbie?
Are either bench better at scaling down to the size I need? I have 5-6 feet for a bench, I think these are larger and would need to be scaled down.
Can the Naked Woodworker bench have a vise added later if I feel I need it?

If anyone has purchased one or both of these videos and can give pros and cons that would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Steve


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

Never one to tell folks not to spend $$$$$$ But before you do, have you exhausted woodworking benches at you tube

Many are a series of a build, possibly copies of one of the benches you are thinking about, or possibly after looking them over you may change course.

My suggestion to anyone who doesn't have a clear idea of exactly which bench they want to build is to start the journey making one of the weekend built 100 dollar benches. Just make sure you make it to be flat, or adjustable so it can be made flat/level. Once you have a bench you will see projects become easier because of that flat and level surface to work on, ability to add vises, dog holes, and all the other. There are several plans out there to build such a bench for free.

Plus it will allow you to evaluate what you may want to do different on a second bench. I have a theory if you do woodworking for 25 years or so, you'll probably be on bench 4 or 5 by then. You don't have to keep them all, but you will build or seriously redo at some point.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

https://paulsellers.com/?s=workbench+

HTH and welcome to Lumber Jocks SMP.


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## Mr_Pink (May 20, 2017)

I've seen neither of these bench videos, but I have watched a few of Richard Maguire's video series. I think he's an excellent, thoughtful instructor; and I doubt you'll regret buying one of his series.


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## LittleShaver (Sep 14, 2016)

I've lost track of the number of benches I've built over the years. The only one I've kept came from a GM Pattern-maker shop with a Emmert vise attached. A neighbor recently gave me some old planks that came from a bridge, so I'm now starting a Moravian Bench. It also gives me a chance to use the wooden screw and nut I picked up a flea market a few years ago for the vise.

The Paul Sellers bench build is worth watching even if you choose a different design.

There is no perfect bench, there is just to one that works for you for now.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

A lot of the info in any bench build could help a guy making any bench. Methods of joining top to frame, cabinets beneath, sheesh too many possibilities to state. It's all on the journey, just depends on which path you choose to take.

LittleShaver I thought I had built some benches, I think I am now on #11. I know some guys that call me a slacker though.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

> There is no perfect bench, there is just to one that works for you for now.
> 
> - LittleShaver


Could not agree more. Make a plan, build it, wear it out, learn what you liked or did not like and make another. repeat as many times as you like.

Or the money and beer run out.

LOL


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

SMP, I can see why you can't decide, they look the same. One is 3 boards wide while the other is 2 boards wide. Both based on the English carpenter bench. In America there are similar designs that showed up in carpentry books around the late 1800's - early 1900's. I think it's a good design, can't go wrong with any of them.


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

Even if you choose another model afterwards, watch the Paul Sellers video ; they are free.
One important difference between the Naked bench and the Paul Sellers one is that Paul Sellers uses wedges which can compensate any workbench leg shrinkage.

The Paul Sellers can be knocked down if need be (moving) but if you need one that can be assembled or knocked down in minutes, the Moravian workbench is a good way to go. You can buy a video but otherwise the extensive article on the "eclectic mechanicals" site might be sufficient (if you wander how to do any operation you probably will find a Paul Sellers video on how to proceed).

My P.Sellers bench is 1m50 long. 
It is easy to scale it up or down (length, width, height). In his old videos , P. Sellers made a double one (with a central tool well). Those old videos are also worth looking at.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

Thanks all for the input. I did in fact watch the Paul Sellers videos, great stuff! One thing I heard is that you have to be careful with his as he makes everything look easy, much easier than it actually is. Also, I don't have the proper clamps for a laminated top, which is why I was aiming for one of the plank top Nicholsons. I've watched a lot of videos on YouTube as well and a lot of great builds, but none really go into detail or technique. 
I ended up buying the English Woodworker course/videos. I've only watched the first 2 videos and I have to say I am impressed so far. He is showing in great detail how to cut a lot of interesting joinery by hand with cheap tools, to show you don't need any fancy tools to do this. Which is perfect for me as I am slowly building up my hand tool collection and need to learn these techniques. He also shows how to do this without a bench, using the planks for the top on top of 2 saw horses as a temporary workbench, and using a wedge under one plank as a saw stop, but also explains how you could do certain steps if you had a bench or vise, etc. Its clear to me now that I first need to get a proper sharpening setup for my chisels, as he is doing a lot of this by hand with chisels as training/practice for learning chisel techniques. Once I get my chisels nice and sharp I'll start gathering lumber for the build. I am thinking of using Alder, as I can't get SYP here, and the sugar pine here is riddled with knots and actually more than alder for the clear 8/4 stock.


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

Skill needs practice. Paul Sellers has been woodworking 6 days a week for about 45 years. In his video he nevertheless has slips from time to time and you will hear him say "oops".

Some essential videos:
- to understand how the chisel's bevel works to shear the wood fiber and how to make a mortise (I must have looked at this one at least 20 times).
- using a guide  to make your mortise straight and meeting in the middle when working from either side.
- preparing a chisel  
- restoring and setting  a plane 
- making a router to build his workbench
- planing technique 
- stock preparation 1  & 2
One of his essential advise: work with sensitivity. In particular, when sawing, let the saw do the work.
When chiseling a mortise, listen to the sound change when one more mallet whack would be too much (and ineffective).
His marking method ("knife wall") works very well for me.
He has more than 220 video
blog about sawing and practice.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

His marking method ("knife wall") works very well for me.

+1


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

I would (at the risk of attracting angst from some) question the use of alder. It is a pretty soft wood. Pretty is not a disclaimer. It is gorgeous wood, but will dent easily. Might wanna consider a tougher wood.


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## mramseyISU (Mar 3, 2014)

Here's what I would suggest before making a decision. Go buy a a book with a lot of benches in it like one of the Chris Schwarz books. I have the red one and spent months reading and re-reading it. There are so many good ideas in there that you can beg, borrow and steal during your build.

I ended up settling on a mostly holtzapffel after reading the book.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> I would (at the risk of attracting angst from some) question the use of alder. It is a pretty soft wood. Pretty is not a disclaimer. It is gorgeous wood, but will dent easily. Might wanna consider a tougher wood.
> 
> - Bill White


Yeah, I read Richards thoughts on choosing wood for this build https://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/best-wood-for-workbench-building/
In my area, I can't get SYP, which I have seen people use. I have also seen a lot of builds of nicholsons using construction grade doug fir, but all the stuff I see here is really wet and when dried I have had some boards twist like crazy. I can buy rough alder 8/4 about the same price as doug fir 2x material. I can get poplar for about double that, and ash for a bit more than that. All 4 of these choices seem to be similar janka ratings more or less. Where as a hardwood will cost me 4 or 5 times that amount. I suppose, however, that I could do what Richard suggests as using a nicer wood on the front top, the "work" section.


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## jturner (Mar 3, 2014)

I know this is an old thread, but I've purchased a number of Richard's videos and he now has two different workbenches to chose from, English and French.

Not to knock Paul Sellers or Mike Seimsen, but before Richard went into producing videos for teaching, he had a very succesful workbench bullding business. Chirs Schwartz profiled him here: https://blog.lostartpress.com/2013/09/22/meeting-finally-workbench-maker-richard-maguire/

I've watched both Paul and Richard's videos and I prefer Richard. He's really down to earth and covers all of the same building and planing techniques that Paul does. Richard's sharpening series is fantastic and demistifies the process.

While Richard's content is behind a pay wall, he's made his plane building series free. It's a detailed build video for a laminted Jack plane. That series will give you a good idea of his teaching method and skill.


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## Mr_Pink (May 20, 2017)

I agree. Richard MaGuire's videos are excellent. He's an outstanding instructor.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

hmmm..









What I have been using for quite a few years…


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## Wintergreen78 (Feb 11, 2019)

Do people who use workbenches with planked tops use holdfasts? If so, do they need to do anything special to get them to work?

I'm not planning on building another bench any time soon, but that has always been one of my concerns about that style of bench. I really like using holdfasts, and if I had to plan ahead and add blocking to make them work properly, I'd probably stick with a thicker laminated top.

I'm also curious about stability if you make a 6' long bench out of Doug fir and use a planked top. It seems like it would be pretty light and would want to move around when you are taking heavy cuts across the grain with a jack plane.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> Do people who use workbenches with planked tops use holdfasts? If so, do they need to do anything special to get them to work?
> 
> I'm not planning on building another bench any time soon, but that has always been one of my concerns about that style of bench. I really like using holdfasts, and if I had to plan ahead and add blocking to make them work properly, I'd probably stick with a thicker laminated top.
> 
> ...


It seems various holdfasts work in a different range of thicknesses. I purposely bought the Gramercy ones as they said designed for tops thicker than 1 3/4. I used rough 8/4 on my bench so its close to 1 7/8 and the Gramercy work perfectly. I saw some that said they only worked up to 3", so those would not work in a 4" top. I ended up building the Richard Maguire bench out of rough 8/4 stock, its only 5' long and does not budge. I was going to put a lower shelf on in case I needed to weigh it down, but the 4×4 legs, deep aprons and bearers really weigh this thing down. If it was 6' you would have no problems for sure.


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## Wintergreen78 (Feb 11, 2019)

> Do people who use workbenches with planked tops use holdfasts? If so, do they need to do anything special to get them to work?
> 
> I'm not planning on building another bench any time soon, but that has always been one of my concerns about that style of bench. I really like using holdfasts, and if I had to plan ahead and add blocking to make them work properly, I'd probably stick with a thicker laminated top.
> 
> ...


That is good to know! I've always thought that a bench made out of planks of 8/4 maple or beech with aprons and bearers would be plenty stiff. It would also be cheaper and easier to build by hand than a laminated top. I use gramercy holdfasts, and if an 8/4 top is enough to hold them, then it would work for me!

Maybe I need to build a new bench…


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## donovandak (Mar 28, 2020)

Funny, I had the same decision on my mind, but went the other direction and got Mike Siemsen's video. I'm in the middle of the build right now and it's going pretty well so far.

Previously, I had built Tom Caspar's "weekend workbench" torsion box design (http://www.workbenchdesign.net/bench1.html), but when I moved I decided not to take it since I had made it out of MDF and it was looking pretty beat up. Also, I had gotten into hand tools more and wanted to use hold fasts, so I wanted more of a solid top.

One thing I would say about Siemen's video is that he includes a materials list for the bench as a PDF in the download (if you get it from Lost Art Press).. he does't include 2×6s for the bench at all (though he uses 2×6's in the video) and basically just includes extra length of 2×12. I don't know about you guys but ripping 2×12's with a hand saw gets pretty old pretty quickly (I used my table saw in the end shhh….) so if you are being a purist I would suggest checking the materials list against the video and availing yourself of 2×6s to save yourself some sweat.

I chose Siemens design because it just looked simpler with less joinery. One could argue that joinery practice probably would have been a good thing but I just waned to get a decent functional bench going so I could build more fun things.

Maybe in the end I'll build Richard's bench too should I need another one.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

I like this one with no vice








</a>

Sorry


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## OleGrump (Jun 16, 2017)

IMHO, You might want to go with the English style bench. It is very solid, strong and not overly complicated. Good place for a "new-ish" woodworker to start. Once you've got the basic bench built, you can add whichever type vise you'd like to add and all manner of improvements that will suit you. Watch some You Tube vids on workbench accessories and see what you might like, then give 'em a try. If you don't like any of them, you can try something else. Nothings carved in stone, and we all make changes to our benches over time. It's part of the learning process for ALL of us. ENJOY !!!


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## OleGrump (Jun 16, 2017)

BTW, A-typically, I forgot to mention one very important design feature: Disregard any of this old "high as the first knuckles on your hand" fairy tale crap. DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT build you workbench any lower than AT LEAST three feet high. Believe me, you back will THANK you for it. This is the absolute BEST improvement I've ever built into a workbench. the difference is amazing!
Keep your hand tools sharp, and the greater height will be a blessing, not a problem. There is nothing worse than having to work on a bench that is too low.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> BTW, A-typically, I forgot to mention one very important design feature: Disregard any of this old "high as the first knuckles on your hand" fairy tale crap. DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT build you workbench any lower than AT LEAST three feet high. Believe me, you back will THANK you for it. This is the absolute BEST improvement I ve ever built into a workbench. the difference is amazing!
> Keep your hand tools sharp, and the greater height will be a blessing, not a problem. There is nothing worse than having to work on a bench that is too low.
> 
> - OleGrump


I read a laot of research from Paul Sellers. He did some survey and research and says 38" is the perfect height, unless you are exceptionally tall then can go higher. Unfortunately i had already made mine around 32" so working on blocks that can screw into the bottom that are 6".


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## MarkHal (Apr 7, 2017)

I bought it all. I bought the Schwarz books, the Siemsen video, the Maguire video, even the Myers' Moravian video (I have a problem). Ultimately, I decided on the Maguire bench for its balance between ease of build with hand tools, strength, and beauty. I liked Siemsen's approach, but I couldn't stand the idea of building a bench that's held together with bolts. I want to learn joinery, after all! My next bench will almost certainly be the Moravian, but it's complexity psyched me out this time.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

99% of the joinery I do at the bench….I am sitting on my shop stool.

Unless I am planing a panel flat, the rest of the work actually stands higher than the top of the bench….jointer work for one…

Top of my bench is 34" above the shop's floor….Top of my head is 5'10-1/2" above the floor…When using a plane, I USE my legs, not my back. Shoulder does get tired, after a while….so I just grab a smaller plane to push around…









Plane? Stanley No. 8 ( all 10 pounds of it) the "lighter, smaller" plane..









WoodRiver No. 62.

Bench is now 7 years old, and been in use constantly….back feels fine, BTW….


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## diverlloyd (Apr 25, 2013)

Like the above jocks had said no matter the bench it's about the height that is comfortable for you. All my benches and tools are about the same height. I think they are around belly button height.


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## AlanWS (Aug 28, 2008)

Both Siemsen and Maguire are excellent teachers and both would serve you well. The difference is that Siemsen's bench is specifically designed to get you jump started from nothing, and so he uses simple but effective joinery. It is easy to construct, but what you wind up with is solid: you construct the mortises by leaving gaps as you glue up construction lumber, and glue using screws as clamps. I've seen him build one in a day using only hand tools while talking to people about what his school offers at a show. (As does Maguire, Siemsen offers a lot more than his basic bench.)

Siemsen's video also includes buying and renovating all the tools needed.


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