# First Post Question On Heating The Shop



## MikeBeee (Oct 19, 2015)

What's up guys! This is my first post so don't be too hard on me if this is a common question. I have a 12'x20' workshop that I'm trying to heat. The walls are already covered with pegboard with no insulation. Although the ceilings are 8' but its just rafters would it be worth the money to insulate the ceiling and make a full loft? In addition I use a standard space heater and an Eden Pure infrared heater but it doesn't seem to help much so if anyone has any others heaters they could recommend the advice would me much appreciated! Thanks in advance!


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## mmax (Dec 9, 2008)

Where are you located?


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## TinWhiskers (Oct 17, 2015)

I spent 5K insulating. Firm believer in insulating. Would be surprised if you would want to heat it to let varnish dry.


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## dyfhid (Jun 4, 2015)

If you're asking about heat I assume you're somewhere where there is actual winter. (I lived in AL for a number of years, never did see a winter there - now I am back in New England we are back to real winters!)

In any case to your question - I think you will find the heaters you have more up to the task with insulation - it's amazing the difference if you can just keep the heat in. Without it, anything your heaters are generating is just going right out of the building so it seems much more like they don't seem to help much.

I am still building my shop, and got the ceiling insulated in the last week or so and already the difference is amazing even without doing the walls yet. I bought a Heat Storm Mojave which did nearly nothing at first while I was getting the insulation up into the ceiling, since I got that finished it brings up the 20×20 shop up from below 40 to over 50 degrees in a half hour. Just in a nick of time too, we got down into the 20's last night!


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## RCL (Oct 19, 2015)

Insulation is worth every penny you spend on it.Not only will it heat faster but it will retain heat longer.my shop is 24×30 and it was 16' to the center and hard to heat.I put in the 4'x8' sheets of styrofoam in the ceiling and covered the bottom of the rafters overhead with pressboard and put R-15 on it and the styrofoam on the walls and it heats up fairly quickly. I use a wood stove.it costs a little but it's nice to stay warm.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

Is this your residence or are you renting? If it's yours and your going to be there for any length of time, get it wired right, lighten right and hang a ceiling and button up the walls. You'll find that more insulation in the ceiling is better. You'll be able to keep it warm enough to work with a couple of milk house heaters no problem.


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

Cheapest thing you can do is insulate. With insulation you can use a smaller, less expensive heater and won't spend nearly as much on electricity or gas (or whatever fuel) you are using to heat with. Also, insulation will make it more comfortable in the summer as well.

While insulating the roof is most important, you really need to do the walls as well.

In addition to insulating, make sure to seal the building with caulk and weather stripping. Also, a single window can be more heat loss than an entire (insulated) wall. If the windows aren't double glassed, add a storm window or just go old school and staple clear plastic over the window leaving a small gap between the plastic and glass.

Just took a quick look at R19 wall insulation, and it was about $0.50 a sq ft for the first thing I saw on the Lowes website. The OPs space has about 500 sq ft of walls, needing about $250 for the walls. Roof would be a bit more than 240 sq ft with R30 would still be less than $1 a sq ft. So for less than $500 in materials, you could insulate the place.

Finally don't forget about the floor. If it is a concrete slab, a lot of heat loss can occur through the edge of the slab if the slab is not insulated. Usually this is foam board extending down 3 feet or so or wrapped under the edge of the slab by 3 feet or so. this of course is done before the slab is poured. Adding a wood floor, perhaps over sleepers with insulation between, can help a lot as well.

It's a bit to spend up front, but you'll be much more comfortable and it will be much cheaper to heat the place.

Hardest part of your job might be removing the pegboard to get at the walls. But it would be well worth the effort.


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## BenjaminNY (Jul 24, 2014)

I put rigid foam and sleepers on the floor with plywood over it and insulated the ceiling and the walls with fiberglass batts.

What a difference. Like night and day.


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

insulation
pay for it once

heat
pay for it forever

both together
saves money and health


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## canadianchips (Mar 12, 2010)

Insulation will help dramatically !
Tear the pegboard OFF the walls and insulate walls too.
I wouldnt bother with loft, you don,t have enough ceiling height with 8 ft walls. 
If you can make cathedral ceiling .
Warm in winter and cool in summer.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

Welcome to Lumberjocks. Hope you enjoy it as much as we do.

Insulate.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

There's a few important questions in the earlier posts, specifically location and ownership…but generally insulating first (and a lot) is always best. 12×20 can be heated fairly easily once it's insulated…unless you live in above the Arctic circle.


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## johnstoneb (Jun 14, 2012)

Insulate ceiling and walls. No insulation = no heat. Once it is insulated you will be able to heat that space with one of those heaters.


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## WoodNSawdust (Mar 7, 2015)

Welcome to LumberJocks! You will find plenty of useful and sometimes conflicting information here.

If you rent try approaching the owner with the idea of you providing the labor and the owner provide materials to insulate. You will have a better shop and save money in heating / cooling. The owner will have an improved property. Maybe he could even raise the rent for the next renter. If you use this approach get everything in writing.

If you add studs and insulation consider using plywood instead of drywall. Plywood will hold a cabinet or simply a screw to hang stuff better than drywall will. Adding studs and insulation on the inside will decrease your available space.

You should also consider electrical. Will you need additional outlets? Will you have a tool that needs 240 volts? How about lighting?

As far as heating, I have tried oil filled electric radiators, electric heaters (with exposed hot heating wire), and propane (the ones that don't vent outside). Finally, I broke down and installed a Mitsubishi ductless heat pump. So far it kept the shop cool this summer, still waiting on the winter. Installed this system was about $3000.

A friend has a wood burning stove in his shop. I never trusted it.

Good Luck. Let us know how it turns out.

P.S. as others have mentioned you could get better results if you include your location.


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## daddywoofdawg (Feb 1, 2014)

I agree with clin,as someone that used to insulate for a living(nasty job).It won't cost anymore to buy insulation that a new heater and run all of them for a winter or two,plus it keeps the heat out as well on those hot summer days.
And installing insulation is hard at all you can learn the idea on you tube in ten mins.and all you need is a box cutter,and a staple gun. start with the ceiling if cost is a issue.I like the foam board with the silver paper on it for ceilings,You can almost lay it on the rafters or nail it from the underside (ceiling side) but batt is good too.they make the not itch stuff too.measure between the studs and the rafters batt comes in 16" and 24" width.


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

I remember the days of trying to work in my 2 car garage that was not insulated while using a kerosene torpedo heater. I was much much younger then and could take it! (Ooopps… younger as in 2 years ago). For a economical heating source, I think torpedo heaters are king. Pro's and Con's to them, but the BTU they put out is unmatched. Once the heat is in your shop, now it's upto insulation and sealing to keep it in. I slapped R-19 batts in my rafters. Made a HUGE difference. I have yet to do the walls themselves in my 20'x20' garage. I am unsure what the ROI is if I use blown-in for the walls, but so far I haven't a need. I'm in northern Nevada where winters only drop to 20 or 30 degrees at night.


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## RogerM (Oct 31, 2011)

You can't hardly put too much insulation in a shop. Insulation will be worth every penny that you put into it. I have R32 insulation in my walls and R55 in my ceiling and heat the entire 1000 sq. ft structure with a little wood stove.


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

Insulate the shop or insulate yourself; better yet, use hand tools in winter months.


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## HornedWoodwork (Jan 28, 2015)

I live in upstate New York where it'll get in the negative twenties over winter no problem. i insulated my 2 car garage shop with rigid foam board (R-8 or 12 I believe) a few years back. I heat with a propane burning barn unit that'll do the trick nicely. With these combined I can comfortably work year round, and at a pretty low cost, even when the mercury drops to the bottom. You will never regret good insulation.


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## RJRosa (Jul 8, 2012)

I'm jumping on the insulate band wagon. I'm working on setting up my 24×24 shop and have insulated the walls and covered them with TG plywood. I did sheetrock on the ceiling with R21 up there. I'm installing a pellet stove venting out horizontally this weekend. I expect it will be nice and toasty in there.


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## DustandDirt (Mar 20, 2014)

I have a garage shop, and had to figure something out quickly two winters ago.
I bought that bubble-wrap reflective insulation and secured to entire ceiling of two car garage. (does not look pretty)
I got a propane powered Big Buddy Heater…and it gets the garage to a comfortable temp within 15 minutes. (pants and long sleeve shirt).
Since I only use it on weekends for maybe 4 hours a weekend during the winter, it has not cost me much for propane….and the reflective insulation is amazing as long as it is exposed.


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## bobasaurus (Sep 6, 2009)

I finally spent time insulating and drywalling my garage shop this year and it is a huge improvement. On the early cold days we've had here in CO it stays a perfectly workable temperature in there with no heating but the lights. The lights themselves actually put out a fair amount of heat, I'm using 8' T5HO fixtures.


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## TinWhiskers (Oct 17, 2015)

Let me tell a story. I have a 24×20 concrete block garage. No insulation. Tried various heaters. Not enough heat. Neighbor gave me a heater that ran off a 20 gal propane tank. Must have put out 100,000 BTUs. I had heat now! Went to use a hand held torch to solder and it wouldn't light. Happened to have another torch on the table. Those things always light. Second torch would not light either. Shut the heater off and gave it back. My new shop is insulated to the max with a legit heater and monoxide detector.


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## canadianchips (Mar 12, 2010)

Someone made the comment "cant over insulate".
I DISAGREE. (I'll be damned over this I know)
I did a cost analysist many years ago.
R20 walls.
R40 ceiling.
I lived in Sask Canada and it was -40 for 2 months of year. Winters were COLD.
The cost to frame and insulate more than R20 at that time did not pay to do unless you lived in your home for 25+ years. The big push then was TRIPPLE glazed windows. ALso not needed.
Do a good job of vapor barrier as well. ONCE again, accoustic sealant is NOT needed.


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## MikeBeee (Oct 19, 2015)

Thanks for everyone's advice! I guess it's time to start saving up for insulation! I'm hoping the cost of the insulation will pay for itself after a couple of years of running only the infrared heater and not using the power hungry space heater!


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm certain you'll find it to be less expensive than you think, at least if you DIY it.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

Canadian chips is getting at a good point. Air infiltration is the big thing, not necessarily a high R-value. You could get by with a reflective board that uses closed cell foam and is taped at the joints. You don't need R-40 batts. There is a LOT of infiltration in the pink stuff, that's why you need R-40 in a ceiling to do much good..


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## Gentile (Jun 3, 2013)

Insulation is my suggestion. I insulated my garage and I take the chill off with a walmart electric space heater.
I keep glues and water based stuff in the house.
I put foam sheets in the panels of the overhead door. The edges of the door leak air. But it keeps the garage cooler when the sun is blasting on the door. Insulation cools and warms…


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