# LJ Topics



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

About a year or so ago when a topic was published it would move past page one within an hour or two unless it attracted comments. Now, it can take all day for a topic to migrate from the top to the next page. This tells me there is not as much action on the site. Has member interest been lost? Have interesting members been lost? Or, maybe there is a lack of interesting and new topics? Do you agree that this site has changed?


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## murch (Mar 20, 2011)

I gave up completely on LJ's some months ago, but I'm starting to look back in. Not very often though.
I used to be hooked.


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## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

!


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

I agree DKV.

Some of the thrill is gone.


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## madts (Dec 30, 2011)

Yes, yes the honeymoon is over.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

I agree.

I think that everything that can be said has already been said.

Also, I think that everything that can be said has already been said.


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## JoeinGa (Nov 26, 2012)

I noticed too. I remember back a year or so making a comment that it took something like 20 or so pages to scroll thru just one day of the pulse page. On todays pulse page you get thru one day in only 7 pages.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

It will be interesting to see what happens in the fall. I think that the summer time can be a time when people are doing a lot of other things.


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## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)

lumberjock changes like the flow of grain on a flat sawn board.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Rick D seems to have a good topic going…


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## Rick Dennington (Aug 27, 2009)

Yep….the same questions asked, and the same answers given…A bunch of the "old members" are gone, cause the fun was gone…There was a time when this site was fun, people argued, disagreed, discussed things, argured some more, and had more fun…..They either quit LJs, or was kicked off…Folks didn't like the Lounge, but that's what made it interesting, to me…..Now, it's just a website for…..never mind…!!!


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

I agree Rick…now it's about nuthin' but wood stuff. Where did we go wrong? One would think you could get a good Polish argument going on a woodworking site. Like, what did the Polish guy say after he cut his thumb off?


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## Rick Dennington (Aug 27, 2009)

I've been a member now for 5 years, and I've seen quite a few changes…..some good, and some not so good…and like you said, now it's just wood stuff…It's a race to see how many can post their projects, and score as many hits as they can…..I know people have to learn, (we all did/do), but you learn by watching videos, reading magazines, books, and then go practice, and more practice…..Some of these "newbies" want you to give them all the answers….kind of like school….I'll do the test, if you give me the answers…..


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## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

!


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Moment, nice to have you as a follower.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Well, for one thing it's is a pain in the ass to read through a topic to see *"you can't comment on this topic because you have been blocked.".*
Maybe the site got taken over by liberals. They're the only ones who block me. Seems like they just don't want to discuss anything they don't agree with. Well, them and the "gun control" crew.

Actually, I just don't have time to post much anymore. Too busy fighting for my life trying to make a living in this dicked up economy.


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## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)

I only block trolls

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)


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## madts (Dec 30, 2011)

Crank49 What is wrong with being a liberal and in favor of gun control? Chaps you hide or something?


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

What is wrong with being a liberal and in favor of gun control?

If history is any guide, there's plenty wrong…..


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)




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## madts (Dec 30, 2011)

Waho6o9. Hitler, Castro, Stalin, Amin and Lenin were not liberals, so you premise is flawed. Good try though.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

All you bored with this site might try SMC.


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## madts (Dec 30, 2011)

Santa Monica College?


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

AG, no bored or disgruntled here, just reminiscing like old guys are prone to do. Know what I mean, bean?


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

This looks like fun…


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

I know that there haven't been any "flame wars" lately but other than that I don't see any real difference. Yes, we have lost some real venerable old timers due to their passing but not recall any great numbers leaving for the lack of interest.

There are plenty of projects, new members, and many comments. Perhaps those that are missing something of interest are not looking around or deep enough.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

The thread "cheap owners" got exciting for a millisecond or two…


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I like it as a woodworking forum. A few topics on other things are fine but there are too many hot button items which when brought up result in the same replies as heard before. Arguing politics, climate change, religion and a bunch more do not really get anywhere. It is only interesting to see how much people get irritated and how far it will go before it gets shut down.


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## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

> About a year or so ago when a topic was published it would move past page one within an hour or two unless it attracted comments. Now, it can take all day for a topic to migrate from the top to the next page.
> 
> - DKV


Probably most members like myself are getting older and are responding slowly,or still using Windows XP!
JK.


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

i dont relly see any difference my self ,just a bunch of wood worker , i like the political threads and religious threads dont bother me , if you cant do a dove tails they why you here ,


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

Moment by moment


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

I get upset when I move to page 2.


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## derosa (Aug 21, 2010)

Too busy to spend the time on here that I was spending. When I moved to the new house I didn't have any real internet and had to find things to do. Working on the house, projects, playing with the kids, discovering new tv shows, working on the car, doing my job and so much more actually got done. So despite my now having fairly decent internet when my father-in-law isn't hogging it with his continual movie downloads while streaming netflix, I don't find the time to be on here and post as much as before. On the plus side I finished a crib, start my first commission piece tomorrow and will be making a maple counter top which will pull me away from here. Still as good a resource as it ever was, I just need less of a resource and more shop time, suspect it's true of a bunch that have been on a while.


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## Crank50 (Jan 31, 2014)

> I only block trolls
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
> 
> - Dan um Style


How does one block one's self???


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I'm on here most every day and post. Otherwise I stay very busy and don't have much free time even though I'm retired.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)

> I only block trolls
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
> 
> ...


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## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Everytime it Rains…...

It Rains…..

Handplanes from Heaven .

Don't you know each flower contains…...

Hand tools from Heaven .

You'll find your tool gloat falling….

All over Town…...

Be sure that your umbrella's….

Turned Upside Down .

Trade them for a package of…...

Sunshine and Flowers…....

If you Want the Things you Love…..

You must have Showers….....

So…..When It starts to Thunder…...

Don't run under a TREE ….....

There'll be Hand planes from Heaven for …..

you

and

me .


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## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

!


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Since the economy took a dump… money and time are spend differently. enthusiasm for the hobby has waned a bit.
I still find some inspiration here, but it is not a poor mans game.

You see the same fall-off if you look at the advertisers index in Fine Woodworking or Wood Magazine or the others, and compare to 5 years ago. The woodworking shows are drying up too.

When times are good, people are spending money on tools, and the stuff we make with our tools, but when you are spending more time looking over your shoulder to seen when your job is going to China…. the hobbies start to die off.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*Dave*, according to the latest economic news the economy and employment have improved to better than they were in 2002, and consumer confidence is up to levels in 2005.

So there must be some other factor that is causing this apparent "fall off"in the areas you listed.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Blah, blah, blah!
Let's figger out how to build somethin'.
Better yet, a full discourse on why the Romans failed.
This blather on a woodworking site is a waste of-----------------. Oh well!
Bill


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> *Dave*, according to the latest economic news the economy and employment have improved to better than they were in 2002, and consumer confidence is up to levels in 2005.
> 
> So there must be some other factor that is causing this apparent "fall off"in the areas you listed.
> 
> - oldnovice


Was that a Government report?


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Bill White, I guess the only way I can get you to keep your promise is to block you…but I don't do that. Therefore you need to find the inner fortitude and strength to do it on your own. Good luck and let me know if I can help in any small way.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*AlaskaGuy*, these confidence numbers are from the University of Michigan which done this report for as long as I can remember.

This data is substantiated by The Conference Board.

The national unemployment numbers can only come from source, *The Bureau of Labor Statistics*. If you look at the graph, the unemployment rate is very near to what it was in 2005.

State unemployment list shows Alaska at 6.5% and 32nd in the list with North Dakota in first place at 2.8% and Mississippi at 8.8% and in last place.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Hans -
I understand the report - but it doesn't jive with the general mood out there. I'm in central Kansas, and there are layoffs here in aviation.
Boeing in Wichita is closing…. and the industry is taking down 11,000 jobs, in a city of around 300K folks that is a big hit.
http://www.kansas.com/news/business/aviation/article1118229.html

The Department of Energy is working to outlaw Fluorescent lighting, by moving the efficiency standards to 10% greater than LED, to be sold. (some choice).
https://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/appliance_standards/pdfs/gsfl_irl_ecs_framework.pdf

I look at older Fine Woodworking, and see a full page. Now it is less than a full page and has been double spaced to take up room.

You see IRS auctions showing all the woodworking business selling off their equipment.
This is just one auctioneer for the next couple weeks!
http://irsauctions.com/index_calendar.asp









It doesn't seem that the news and the Official reports - really line up, but it may vary for some other parts of the country. It just seems I go to the mall with the kids, there are a lot of vacancies…vs 10 years ago when it was 'MORE' fully occupied.
People aren't smiling…. and they aren't donating to charity much either. The mood is pretty dour in flyover country.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

As Mark Twain said, "There are three kinds of lies, there's lies, damn lies and there's statistics."


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*Dave*, even though the mood in Kansas may not be up to what the statistics are indicating, the general mood, consumer confidence numbers, here in the bay area is closer in line with those numbers even though our unemployment numbers are rank California as 44th at 7.4%.

Here in San Jose, houses are selling lot hot cakes, the mall and restaurants are always full, and commute traffic has become worse than ever. The house across the street was on the market for three days and sold for $50K over asking price of $724,000; the house two houses over sold for $700,000 even though it was a total gut and is in the process of renovation.

Statistics cannot see localized differences throughout this big country of ours!


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I guess that I am lucky to live in the mid-west. Housing prices are much more reasonable. I would never be able to afford a house in California. In my area of Indiana, you can get a nice new house for $300,000.

I know that I am getting old but I bought my first house in 1972 for $22,000. You can not even buy a car for that now.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*Redoak49*, when I moved to California I bought my house (18 years ago) for *less* than Indiana prices otherwise I probably wouldn't have been able to buy out here either. The increase in prices is due to too many speculators and Chinese investors, willing to pay cash, keep it for a while and resell! It looks like that has slower down to some extent!

Bought my first house in Illinois for $28K!


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Bought my first house in Clovis NM in 1973…$17k


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> What is wrong with being a liberal and in favor of gun control?
> 
> If history is any guide, there s plenty wrong…..
> 
> ...


There appear to be several misquotes about what Jefferson said about guns. He did say this about liberals:

"Some are whigs, liberals, democrats, call them what you please. Others are tories, serviles, aristocrats, &c. The latter fear the people, and wish to transfer all power to the higher classes of society; the former consider the people as the safest depository of power in the last resort; they cherish them therefore, and wish to leave in them all the powers to the exercise of which they are competent."


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Now, if you think about what Jefferson was just quoted as saying, you have to realize that what were called whigs, liberals or democrats over 200 years ago would not resemble the same today.
But, put into today's context what he said about who wants more power for the people and less for the government? Would that not be the tea party, or libertarians?

I certainly know more democrats today who think they are elite, priviledged and above the law, and know all the right ways to spend my money, etc, etc. While most of the republicans I know are good, honest down to earth and fighting to get the government off the backs of the working folks.

I was recently at a coctail party at the home of a very well thought of democrat official. We had been friends for a long time and he never knew I changed my party affiliation years ago. I won't say what elected position he held because someone might try to get him in trouble for this, but just know he was in an elected position and he and his wife are some of the most democratic folks I know. A discussion was on going about the comparison of a couple of county schools. Someone asked why school "A" had such a good standing and such high scholastic acheivement compared to school "B". The democrat wife declares "because school "A" has no nig*ers, that's why." Now if a republican had said that they would have been roasted, but at this party it's like, "Oh, so that's why."

It's just an attitude thing. Every time I comment on anything with a conservative slant, there are immediate comebacks like "Whats wrong with liberals?" or "You been watching too much Faux News" or something similar. It gets very tiring.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

Perhaps she wasn't as liberal as you thought.

If you are willing to paint democrats based on that incidenct can I paint all southerners based on a single incident?

And your comment wasn't slanted it was offensive, as well as wrong.

You should be ashamed of comparing Obama to those others.

The thing I don't get is what that crap has to do with this thread.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*Crank49*, here is some fodder that will make you feel better a lot better!


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

> Perhaps she wasn t as liberal as you thought.
> 
> If you are willing to paint democrats based on that incidenct can I paint all southerners based on a single incident?
> 
> ...


This woman is absolutely Liberal with a capital L. 
I'm *not* saying all Libs are like her, and yes she is offensive.
She routinely refers to anyone not of her political persuasion as a G. Damn Republican.

I certainly did not intend to be offensive. If you took it that way, then I am sorry.
My point was that the so called tolerant people, the democrats, are the opposite. I think you verified my point.

But, you are getting all flustered and seeing things that are not there.
I never mentioned your idiot president one time anywhere in this thread.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

I can hear Moment now, "here's another political thread started by DKV".


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

> *Crank49*, here is some fodder that will make you feel better a lot better!
> 
> - oldnovice


Maybe you don't remember 18% morgage interest rate during the Carter years.
or under 4% unemployment rate during the Bush years.

Dang, this discussion is getting lively. Almost like old times.

But, alas, I need to sign off. 
Going to a new job in the morning. 
Since I have been laid off twice during the last 5 democrat years of good times.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

> I can hear Moment now, "here s another political thread started by DKV".
> 
> - DKV


If you want, I will make a reply tying your original post (what was that?) to religion so that you will have both topics covered.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> This woman is absolutely Liberal with a capital L.
> I m *not* saying all Libs are like her, and yes she is offensive.
> She routinely refers to anyone not of her political persuasion as a G. Damn Republican.
> 
> ...


I thought you posted the photo of Obama with the greatest mass murderers, so my apologies on that, you were just replying to me about Jefferson, then went on a rant.

Liberal is a philosophy, democrat is a party. The Dixiecrats proved democrats aren't always liberal.

How does my saying something is offensive prove democrats are the opposite of tolerant?


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> *Crank49*, here is some fodder that will make you feel better a lot better!
> 
> - oldnovice
> 
> ...


Or the 3.9 unemployment rate under Clinton.

Oh and the "democrat years of good times" followed the mess Bush caused. The month Obama was inaugurated we were loosing 800,000 jobs per month.

Your memory is faulty. Or tainted.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

They once said the D party was for the working class and R party was for big business.

Now they're saying the R party is the liberal party and D party is the radical party.

Hear that on a radio show yesterday.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

> They once said the D party was for the working class and R party was for big business.
> 
> Now they re saying the R party is the liberal party and D party is the radical party.
> 
> ...


The only thing that is really certain is that NOBODY is for the working class…. just different special interest groups.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

ChuckV, might as well go ahead and tie it all together. Include some prurient sex things also. Is prurient related to prudish? I thought Moment was from Texas? Aren't they pretty conservative down there?


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

In my opinion all of the current congress should be given the pink slip as they have done absolutely nothing. They are diametrically opposed to each other and are only interested in what is important for their respective parties and not what is good for the country and the people.

It would be nice to get back the politicians like Everett Dirkson, Hubert Humphrey, Adlai Stevenson, Barry Goldwater, Lyndon Johnson, Harry F. Byrd Sr., Estes Kefauver, Paul Douglas, and the like as they got things done in spite of their party affiliation.

*I would also like $10,000,000!*


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## madts (Dec 30, 2011)

If I got $10,000,000 I would most probably spend 80% on booze, women and rock-and-roll. The rest I would just squander away.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> They once said the D party was for the working class and R party was for big business.
> 
> Now they re saying the R party is the liberal party and D party is the radical party.
> 
> ...


Possibly, but I bet the R's have rich people in their special interest group.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> In my opinion all of the current congress should be given the pink slip as they have done absolutely nothing. They are diametrically opposed to each other and are only interested in what is important for their respective parties and not what is good for the country and the people.
> 
> It would be nice to get back the politicians like Everett Dirkson, Hubert Humphrey, Adlai Stevenson, Barry Goldwater, Lyndon Johnson, Harry F. Byrd Sr., Estes Kefauver, Paul Douglas, and the like as they got things done in spite of their party affiliation.
> 
> ...


Yup, when Mitch said job #1 was to make Obama's term a failure I lost what little respect I had for the senate.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

> Possibly, but I bet the R s have rich people in their special interest group.
> 
> - RobS888


REALLY??
Because Bill and Hillary are so dirt poor? Or Bill and Melinda Gates? or Warren Buffett? Larry Ellis of Oracle? or George Soros, or many others.

Don't believe the claptrap - that the democrats are only blue collar folks. There are no shortage of blue blood New England democrats who are quite wealthy from Old Money, and tech CEO's and of course Hollywood (Streisand, George Clooney etc.) that are Democrat.

Money =Power….

See if you can get an appointment with Kay Hagen to talk about empowering the working class


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> REALLY??
> Because Bill and Hillary are so dirt poor? Or Bill and Melinda Gates? or Warren Buffett? Larry Ellis of Oracle? or George Soros, or many others.
> 
> Don t believe the claptrap - that the democrats are only blue collar folks. There are no shortage of blue blood New England democrats who are quite wealthy from Old Money, and tech CEO s and of course Hollywood (Streisand, George Clooney etc.) that are Democrat.
> ...


Are you confused on what a SIG is? Bill&Hill are a SIG?

Try to look at it unemotionally please.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

OK the "Clinton Global Initiative" that Pays Bill and Hillary and Chelsea.

The tech folks that drive DOD and NSA spending (like Microsoft, Oracle, Cisco Systems and others)

Or the Bill and Melinda gates foundation that are responsible for Common Core.

How about Green Energy - their lobby and CEO's aren't eating Ramen noodles and dumpster diving.

or Soros and Organizing for America.

Or big Labor - - like SEIU….you don't actually think those are Republicans in the purple windbreakers trying to get McDonalds to go Union do you??

If one is unemotional about it - -

As I started back at #61 stating that NOBODY is for the working class.

You maintain the delusion that money and corruption are solely the providence or Republicans, and Democrats are just hard working folks that are busy fueling their Prius' with Unicorn whizz, while nursing Rwandan babies back to health, and inseminating baby seals.

The RATIONAL person sees there is rampant corruption - that is not one sided.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*Dave*, I have to agree with you.
Greed and corruption do not have any specific political party affiliation.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> OK the "Clinton Global Initiative" that Pays Bill and Hillary and Chelsea.
> The tech folks that drive DOD and NSA spending (like Microsoft, Oracle, Cisco Systems and others)
> Or the Bill and Melinda gates foundation that are responsible for Common Core.
> How about Green Energy - their lobby and CEO s aren t eating Ramen noodles and dumpster diving.
> ...


You remind me of a John Oliver skit about Global Warming, He said it isn't 2 people arguing about GW on TV, to match reality you need 98 to 2 and he brought out 98 lab coat wearing GW supporters.

CGI and the Gates foundation do work for other people, not to get their members MORE stuff (money, tax break, protection). If you see the Gates as the same as other lobbyist then you are really confused.

Is Soras as bad as the Kochs? I don't know, but the others you cite to me do good stuff for people. LoL it's like you cited Mother Teresa as an indictment of Catholics. Just not making the point you think you are.

I don't see black and white on these issues, but I suspect that inseminating baby seals is not going to produce much of anything.

Keep up the vivid examples.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

"You maintain the delusion that money and corruption are solely the providence *of* Republicans, and Democrats are just hard working folks that are busy fueling their Prius with Unicorn whizz, while nursing Rwandan babies back to health, and inseminating baby seals." 
- DrDirt

Now I don't care who you are, that there is funny.

Would the plural of Prius be Priuses or Priusi?


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> "You maintain the delusion that money and corruption are solely the providence *of* Republicans, and Democrats are just hard working folks that are busy fueling their Prius with Unicorn whizz, while nursing Rwandan babies back to health, and inseminating baby seals."
> - DrDirt
> 
> Now I don t care who you are, that there is funny.
> ...


Doesn't seem funny at all to me, perhaps it is a party affiliation thing.

Would you happen to be a republican?


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

> Is Soras as bad as the Kochs? I don t know, but the* others you cite to me do good stuff for people*. LoL it s like you cited Mother Teresa as an indictment of Catholics. Just not making the point you think you are.
> 
> I don t see black and white on these issues, but I suspect that inseminating baby seals is not going to produce much of anything.
> 
> ...


Ah so as long as they do "Good stuff for others" they are OK???

Glad to hear you are now a Koch Brothers Supporter - - - since they do so much Philanthropy for the Arts and Lincoln Center.

Seems Bill Gates and Microsoft have been sued by the European Union for Antitrust for 732 Million…. but since he donates to charity we look the other way? Don't think Microsoft lobby's congress for computing platforms, the right to preload all their crapola onto EVERY new PC being sold etc??

Your original claim I addressed: was that only republicans derive any benefit from lobbying - and there are no Rich Democrats in any SIG - - sorry but you lost that argument.

See your post #65 *Possibly, but I bet the R's have rich people in their special interest group.
*


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Ah so as long as they do "Good stuff for others" they are OK?
> 
> 
> > Glad to hear you are now a Koch Brothers Supporter - - - since they do so much Philanthropy for the Arts and Lincoln Center.
> ...


We were talking about who is in the SIG, meaning the people that contribute the money and derive the benefit of the lobbying.

Microsoft's monopolistic tendencies have nothing to do with it… except as a vivid example to distract.

I don't see much black and white on these things, but to characterize R's as representing bidness & Democrats as representing people seems accurate.

Now for the non-absolute challenged: are all Democrats (politicians, lobbyist) good, hardly; are all Republicans (again, not talkin' 'bout regular people here) bad, prolly not. Does it seem that way? Sure does.

Lobbying for a group of companies to pay less tax or lobbying to raise minimum wage? Are those the same to you?

Edit:

*How does*: "Possibly, but I bet the R's have rich people in their special interest group."

*become*: "that only republicans derive any benefit from lobbying - and there are no Rich Democrats in any SIG"


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Kudos on keeping this thread on a professional level.

Good points of view.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

To address your point:

"Possibly, but I bet the R's have rich people in their special interest group."

attempts to say that the D's do NOT have rich folks in their SIG.

When you make a TOTALLY ONE SIDED ASSERTION…. it gets read as being….. A* ONE SIDED ASSERTION*.

It is like saying "I have worked for Bob and Mark. At least Mark was Fair". is the same as claiming Bob was Unfair.
--------

your statement :Lobbying for a group of companies to pay less tax or lobbying to raise minimum wage? Are those the same to you?

YES - - everyone that is lobbying is playing a game for their own enrichment and self aggrandizement.
There is no such thing as a *Benevolent lobbiest.
*

SPECIFICALLY your example for a group of companies looking for tax breaks… is asking congress to allow them to skip paying their taxes… so the 'Bill' gets handed to the rest of us to make it up.
WHILE
The minimum wage folks are asking congress to* force *companies to hand out bigger checks to the workers, which again, the rest of us pay for in higher prices.

Both are just lobbying to REDISTRIBUTE who pays what and to whom.

Both are done for THEIR OWN benefit.

WHile you see ones goal as good, and the other evil… they are both actually doing the same thing… billing the rest of us for their newfound benefits.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

No one even suggested lobbyists are even vertebrates.
I still believe that most republican type SIGs benifits the rich far more than any any others demographic. We agree that SIGs and lobbyists are bad, I just believe one party caters more to the wealthy than the other.

Did you see bill gates gave 50 million to help fight Ebola. Pretty nice of him.

On the other hand house republicans threw out the law requiring them to declare gifts and trips from lobbyists. Why?


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## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)

> If I got $10,000,000 I would most probably spend 80% on booze, women and rock-and-roll. The rest I would just squander away.
> 
> - madts


you rock


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## Crank50 (Jan 31, 2014)

> If I got $10,000,000 I would most probably spend 80% on booze, women and rock-and-roll. The rest I would just squander away.
> 
> - madts
> 
> ...


Now there is a point I can agree with.
(Don't be offended Dan um, I know you have me blocked but I wasn't talking to you ;^)


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

The left/right thing is a Machiavellian game by the political elite to keep the general public rattling sabers over issues that none of them intend on resolving.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

> The left/right thing is a Machiavellian game by the political elite to keep the general public rattling sabers over issues that none of them intend on resolving.
> 
> - Rick M.


+500 Nailed it!


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> The left/right thing is a Machiavellian game by the political elite to keep the general public rattling sabers over issues that none of them intend on resolving.
> 
> - Rick M.


I use an épée, but I see your point.

Sad that DrDirt and I might be expanding more energy discussing this than the people elected to solve problems.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

> I use an épée, but I see your point.
> 
> Sad that DrDirt and I might be expanding more energy discussing this than the people elected to solve problems.
> 
> - RobS888


On that we are approaching Détent - - the elected officials are not working on solutions. Instead they focus on an "Our side vs their side".

Fact is not every idea a democrat promotes is stupid just as 
Not every Idea a Republican has is Evil.

Reagan worked with a Tip Oneill and democrat congress
Clinton worked with Newt and a Republican one.

Now nobody works with anybody - - not even the factions of their own party.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> I use an épée, but I see your point.
> 
> Sad that DrDirt and I might be expanding more energy discussing this than the people elected to solve problems.
> 
> ...


OMG are we meeting in the middle?


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Yah Rob - that is the magic of the internet screed - we pick out individual items that "grind our gears" But find out that when you step back, people aren't that different.
They want the government to provide defense
Want to have gainful employment
Family security from crime
health.


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## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)

> If I got $10,000,000 I would most probably spend 80% on booze, women and rock-and-roll. The rest I would just squander away.
> 
> - madts
> 
> ...


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## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)

> If I got $10,000,000 I would most probably spend 80% on booze, women and rock-and-roll. The rest I would just squander away.
> 
> - madts
> 
> ...


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

"Has member interest been lost? (Yes) Have interesting members been lost? (YES) Or, maybe there is a lack of interesting and new topics? (YES) Do you agree that this site has changed?" (Yes)!!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Refurbers is DEAD and has been Drowned by SPAM. Despite "Apparent" Efforts to stop the Spam. It's Worse now than it's ever been. "On Line Now" is always "0".


















Here? Why bother Posting Anything. Helpful or not you very rarely even get a Reply or a "Thank You". THEY don't care. They're all wrapped up in their own little self centered.. "I,ME,MINE World". Give OR Take, they don't know the difference.

As mentioned above: "Yep….the same questions asked, and the same answers given…A bunch of the "old members" are gone, cause the fun was gone…There was a time when this site was fun, people argued, disagreed, discussed things, argued some more, and had more fun…..They either quit LJs, or was kicked off…Folks didn't like the Lounge, but that's what made it interesting, to me…

"It's a race to see how many can post their projects, and score as many hits as they can….Some of these "newbies" want you to give them all the answers….kind of like school….I'll do the test, if you give me the answers….."

All that Political Crap as above? What's it got to do with this Post or Woodworking?

More Useless Pictures from the King Of Useless Pictures. "Humor and fun lubricate the brain" It's not working.

I'm done with the Lengthy & Time Consuming answers to some of the Posts. Complete waste of My Time!

I've got at least 8 Projects I could Post. Why Bother?!


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

IMO, this is the wrong time of year to judge site participation.
I barely have time to sit down in front of my PC.


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

Well. I guess we're all entitled to our opinion.

My Facts above are not based on this time of year. They are based on History over the last year or so. The quote I used is from last August. that's also the time when this was Topic was originally Posted. The Post above mine is from September.

Refurbers did not fall apart overnight, it's been going on for a long time now. Nothing has improved on there.

The lack of responses to Posts is the same thing. Etc. ETC. ETC.

Of course that's just my opinion.


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