# I'm buying a house...what should I look for in a workplace?



## BentheViking (May 19, 2011)

So my wife and I are now settled in our temporary home until we are able to buy a house. Hopefully we will be all set within the next year, but we are starting the process now to better inform ourselves with everything. We have already looked at one and while I thought the spaces for a shop on the property were too small, she thought I was crazy to think I would take so much playspace from "our kids" (we were only married in April, and don't plan on kids for another two years).

So what should I be looking for when considering potential spaces? Since I'm not a professional doing this for a living, I don't need crazy amounts of space. My thought process is being able to run 4×8 sheets or 8 foot long pieces through a saw so I would need at least 16 or 20 feet long. What if it was 10 feet wide by 20 feet long? Would that be a crazy amount to want or no? Should it have its on access point if its in a basement? Would a hatch be suitable or should it be a door. Sheetrocked walls or bare studs? We have also talked about having a two car garage with one half being dedicated to a car park in the winter and one for a shop (not sure where bikes, mower, snowblower, etc. go). How much of a pain in the ass would it be to have to move everything around every time I want to use it? Or since I have the driveway would I be aided by having the extra space to set up everything and just put things in at the end of the day?

Big tools I would think I'd like to have is a table saw, miter saw, jointer (not sure how big), and a benchtop planer. Maybe other stuff, but that would be my first thoughts. Definitely have to have space for a workbench/assembly areas and plenty of storage areas for tools and things.

I would probably only have tools that run off 110v, so would not need to upgrade to 220, but I would possibly want to have an electrician make sure there is enough power to run multiple things at once without having to run out to the box to flip a breaker.

If we find our ideal home does not have enough space for me has anyone ever built a large shed (based on my guesses between 150 and 200 sq ft)? I have plenty of building skills so could do most of it myself, but what would the costs associated with doing this? If I went this route since I live in Connecticut I want things to be warm enough to work in the winter, so def some insulation and at least some space heaters?

I'm sorry if all of this sort of rambles on I just was hoping to get some info from all the expert LJ's out there who have already done it. Any answers on this or anything else on the topic would be great. Thanks.


----------



## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

find one with a new roof, good mechanicals, good windows, and all the expensive stuff done all ready and youll be well on your way. The shop will be what you make of it, wherever you make it, and it will be yours. Good luck!


----------



## BentheViking (May 19, 2011)

Is that in terms of the house or the shop? Obviously with such a large purchase we'll make sure the house itself is in proper order, a shop might not be as important since due to its small size any issues seem far less daunting to solve.

where in CT are you? we are looking in the waterbury/naugatuck area close to 84


----------



## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Space with access would be a priority. Need to get tools, materials, and projects in and out easily/safely. The ability to power the tools is also needed, but easier to manipulate after the fact compared to adding square footage. I would be looking to potentially barter your closet space for her garage space, if push came to shove. Happy hunting.


----------



## BentheViking (May 19, 2011)

tell her if i have a big enough shop i can do projects like build out closet systems?


----------



## NormG (Mar 5, 2010)

Yes, stay with the build out closet systems. I think that will work. I hope she is not reading this


----------



## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Yeah, or she can have the master BR closet (customized) all to herself. You can take one in another room. If it gets dicey, you could then trade away your stake in the masterbath as well. But only as a last resort. Its all about give and take.


----------



## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

My advice - - If you want all the standard woodworking tools and some room to store wood, 400 square feet is about the minimum.

There are advantages and disadvantages to separate build versus garage versus basement. I prefer basement because it is so much easier to heat and air condition. I recommend going all out on dust control. It is better to have a door to the basement as opposed to an open staircase. Even with a closed door to the basement, you may want to enclose your dust generating tools in an isolated area with a door that closes tight.

Be advised that air filtration systems and dust collectors can capture a large portion of the dust - but not 100%.

Dust and noise are the only real problems with the basement. The dust can be controlled pretty well, but not 100%. The noise is what it is. In my case, I am very grateful for a supportive wife.


----------



## BentheViking (May 19, 2011)

rich are you saying that 400 sq ft is what i should be looking for at least?


----------



## Finn (May 26, 2010)

I have 250 square feet in my shop and this leaves room for ZERO wood storage. I make small cigar box sized items and sell them so my shop is just big enough for me. IF I were to use any plywood sheets I would need twice that size (500 Sq Ft) plus wood storage space.


----------



## BentheViking (May 19, 2011)

jim what types of big tools that you have that take up so much room? i was thinking 200 sq ft would be enough space if configured correctly…


----------



## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Table saw and bench will eat up a lot of room, you will need infeed/outfeed area. Like mentioned, if you are beneath 250 ft. Space can become a real premium. Wood storage , or machine access will be hard to come by. Not impossible, you will just need to maximize all aspects of the area, floors, walls and overhead. Grizzly's website has a nice shop planning program you can play with. That maybe helpful when you know the deminsions.


----------



## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

In my shop, I have the following stationary tools and other space taking items: Bench top planer on its own stand, bench top mortising machine on its own state, table saw, dust collector, miter saw, lathe, jointer, 18" band saw, grinder (for sharpening), drill press, router table, stationary belt sander, drum sander, work bench and a second work surface (used primarily to storage). I probably have about 100 square feet dedicated to wood storage. The rest of my tools fit in my 392 square foot shop with little room to spare.

I do not like the idea of moving tools around on mobile bases, but I do have mobile bases on my jointer and drum sander and I move them as needed. I would never put my table saw or band saw on a mobile base (both weight over 400 pounds).

I may have more tools than you think you need. For example, many woodworkers do not have a lathe, grinder, mortising machine or drum sander. Without those tools I would have more breathing space. Many woodworkers get by less wood storage space also.

My point is that about 400 square feet is probably the minimum for someone who has a relatively complete set of tools as I do and has room for some wood storage.


----------



## BentheViking (May 19, 2011)

In a perfect world here is what I would think 10×20 shop with bench/storage on one side of the long wall that is maybe 2 feet deep. that leaves me another 8×20 for other stuff…maybe rolling TS (probably contractors at first then someday a hybrid), planer and joiner on rolling stands, miter saw w/ some sort of fencing system on the other side. Above these I could hang lumber storage racks. This would allow me to have 6' by 20' across the middle of the room, though it still may be difficult to cut a plywood sheet on the TS…may have to do this on a circular saw and sawhorses? But what if its only a 14×14 (196 sqft instead of 200), but assuming 2 walls are killed with storage/benches I only would have usable space of 12×12 which leaves me 144 sqft instead of 120 sqft of usable space, although i wouldn't be able to rip 8 foot pieces on the TS. Now if I have usable space immediately outside the shop I can use it whenever its not inclement weather. clearly the exact layout really doesn't matter until I have am actually considering a place, but i just need to start thinking about things


----------



## Bearpie (Feb 19, 2010)

In my case, I live in Fla, I have a separate building for my shop and I would not have it any other way. The noise, dust and wood odors are completely separate from the house and cannot contaminate the living spaces unless I bring it in on my clothes. My shop is AIR conditioned and has a HEAT strip built into the air conditioner for the cold days that we do have and my back surely appreciates that! my shop is 480 sq ft with an attic, would I want it bigger? Of course, but this size is far far better than the 240 sq ft I started out with, 12' x 20' and I doubled it this spring! You, being in Ct, I can see it being a problem to heat in the long cold winter to stay warm so it might be better to have a "walk out basement" and be sure to go overboard on the air filtration, it is worth it's weight in gold! Good luck!


----------



## BentheViking (May 19, 2011)

Do you mean air filtration as something different than dust collection? Someday I may do more, but at least to start it will probably be just a shop vac hooked up to the tools

and I have yet to even thing about finishing…i'd love to be able to do spray finishes someday, but my immediate considerations are much more towards tooling areas than finishing

and in terms of projects i plan on doing crafts and smaller furniture, end tables, benches, maybe up to a coffee table, but not armoires and kitchen table sets. On the same hand the wife loves to get things on the cheap and remake them for us, so doing work on a kitchen table or armoire could be in the future….ahhhh too much to think about


----------



## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

I may be biased, but I like my shop in the basement. I have a two car garage in the basement with a big door that leads into the wood storage area then, beyond that is the shop. The storage area is 12' x 10' and then the actual work area is about 28' by 22'. Entrance to the stair landing and the rest of the house comes off the side of the storage area. I do my nasty (miter saw or breaking down plywood sheets) or smelly (finishing) jobs in the garage where I can open the doors and blow out the dust or fumes. My metal working, casting, heat treating and welding equipment is in 1/2 the garage as well.

If you don't have a basement a garage is a good alternate. A 3 slot garage would be nice, especially if you have to have somewhere for a car.

Many folks want a shop to be separate from the house. I have seen several that look like garages converted into shops. The big garage door is almost a requirement for any shop, whether it's used for parking a car or not. If you can afford to heat and cool the separate shop building then there is a lot good about a separate space.

If I didn't have at least partial use of the garage, I don't think I would want to be restricted to a basemnet only shop. You would be surprised at how fast the smell of some glues, finishes, thinners, solvents, etc. will permeate the upstairs.

Yes, there is air filtration besides dust collection. Dust collectors suck up the dust and chips from sawing, planing, and jointing, and some times from sanding, pretty well. But collectors, and even more so, shop vacuums, are noisy and use a lot of power. You can't run a table saw and a collector off the same circuit at the same time, for instance. But, a ceiling mounted air filter is quiet and low powered and is intended to be operated all the time you are working. Filters clean the fine, and most dangerous, particles from the shop's air. The filter is just as important as the dust collector in my opinion.


----------



## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

Air filtration and dust collection are 2 different things.

My dust collector (DC) connects directly to my machines and, depending on the machine, captures some or most of the dust generated. My DC gets virtually all the dust and chips from my planer, jointer and router table and does a poorer job on my miter saw. It does a mediocre job with the table saw and band saw

My air filtration system suspends from the ceiling and circulates the air in the room, filtering out the fine dust particles. It is not a very noisy machine but it makes enough noise that I would rather not have it on. I often turn it on with a timer when I leave the shop at the end of a work session. Prior to buying my festool sanders with a dust extractor, I had no way to collect dust directly from my sanders (except for a stationary belt sander). Sanding always created a lot of dust in the air and the air filtration system helps capture that dust.

FYI - the festool rotax sander with the dust extractor seems to capture virtually all the dust.

Personally, I really dislike shop vacs because of the noise they make. One may say that the festool dust extractor really is a shop vac, but it does not make noise like a shop vac and it comes on and off automatically whenever to start or stop your tool. I cannot hear it over the sound of my sander.


----------



## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

I just want to add … with the hope of being helpful … that this is-literally-a subject about which books are written.

Along with your other info sources, I might suggest you search a few of the used booksellers' websites, and pick up a couple of books. Also, Grizzly has a very useful online shop planner. As always … you need more square footage than you think you will.

Good luck !


----------



## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

If you can swing it I would prefer a separate building from the house with 9 or 10 ft ceilings one roll up door and and one walk through door and at least 25ft x 25ft. 30×30 would be even better. If you can't swing it then build what you can because a small shop is better than no shop. I worked out of an open carport only 18×18 for many years before I closed it in so. So now I have a small shop but I sure do enjoy it.


----------



## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

BentheViking-I'm sort of starting the same process you are going through. My current shop is in the garage, and it is really a tight space.

When we retire in a few months, we'll be relocating to be closer to kids/grandkids on the other side of the state, and space for a proper shop is high on the list of priorities.

I set the square-footage bar at 400. With the machines I have (I will be taking my tools with me), I figure 400 square feet is enough to allow me to position tools where the workflow makes sense and leave them there, provide some space for lumber storage, and maybe allow for some expansion. I'm tired to tripping over extension cords and hoses, so adequate electrical service and dust collection are priorities.

Though I can make a smaller space 'work', setting up machines, moving them around, and storing them is a pain in the @$$ I wish to avoid. I would love to be able to just turn on the lights in the shop and start working.

And I think I would get better use out of my tools … for example, right now my tablesaw is buried in a corner, and to get it to it, I have to move a cabinet with my router table and drill press, my bandsaw, and my jointer. Thankfully, everything is on wheels, but it still is just not very efficient.

I have told our real estate broker we'll consider either a generous 3-stall garage, a separate building (needs to be insulated and have decent HVAC), or a basement so long as there is ground-level access (I don't want to have move machines and materials us/down stairs through the house). The other reservation I have about a basement shop is noise, but that may be able to be minimized with decent sound-proofing and insulation.

-Gerry


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Shops differ in size and use . From your questions and answers it seems your not to sure what tools you'll have or want.I would suggest using one side of your double car garage to start with and after you have a feel for what you want build a shop to meet your needs. In regards to what kind of power you will need 110 is fine to start but as you progress in woodworking you will want a better table saw and that takes 220. Take a look around Ljs at everyone's shops that will give you lots of Ideas.

here's mine

http://lumberjocks.com/a1Jim/workshop


----------



## stevepeterson (Dec 17, 2009)

I agree with the 400 square foot minimum target. My shop is one stall of a 3 car garage at about 13 by 23 or 300sf. This area holds the primary power tools (table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, RAS, router table, miter saw, and dust collector). I also have 2 8' workbenches in the other half of the garage with sanding stations, adding about 100sf more.

Space is tight. I have to open the garage door if I am ripping anything longer than 4' on the table saw. I usually move the cars out of the other half of the garage when I need to lay sheets of plywood on the floor for easy cutting.

One thing I really like about having a garage workshop is that it is really convenient to just step out to the garage and start working. It was also easy to tap into the breaker panel for 220V power. Theoretically, it should also keep the tools safer from breakins.


----------



## BentheViking (May 19, 2011)

I'd really like to thank everyone for their input so far…Is there anyone out there that has shops in the 200 sqft space that they may be able to share their ideas with me? Obviously I would love more than that, but knowing the types of houses we are thinking about in our budget I'd be hard pressed to think I am going to be able to get much more than that.


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Sometimes it's best just to try things out for yourself and see how it works out. Know one can tell you what you will like or won't like. This might help you plan things out with the square footage your thinking about.

http://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner.aspx


----------



## BentheViking (May 19, 2011)

I've been thinking more and more about this and am thinking a detached two car garage with one side for a shop would be good. I know I can insulate it and add some basic heating, but how much will that help with a garage door. Are garage doors insulated? If its not a standard can you purchase an insulated one? What would it cost? Thanks everyone


----------



## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Ben-- The answer to that depends on the door and the way it was installed.

The guy I bought my house from was loaded one night (yes, he admitted that to me) and drove right through the door.

Instead of going cheap (the house had just gone on the market), he bought and had installed a premium steel, insulated door (Overhead Door Co.).

That's one of the reasons my shop stays relatively warm … the door does a good job, and the way the installer did the work, it seals tight on each side and the top. Even when the wind is blowing right at it, there is almost no air leakage.

-Gerry


----------



## RTim (Jan 11, 2011)

Another thing to think about is head room. I have a basement workshop now and while it's cozy, the ceiling height is very low, only 6' 6", so moving certain large items can be a real chore. However, the low height also means that the rafters are within easy reach so they make great places for clamp and jig storage.

Take a look at the Ultimate One-Man Shop in issue 223 (Winter 2011/2012) of Fine Woodworking. It's a 3 car garage shop custom built for New England winters but there are lots of great ideas you may want to think about for your shop. I hope to move out of the basement someday but there's no room at my current location to erect a similar space to the 500 sq ft shop I now have. Like most, my desires are in excess of my budget ;-)


----------



## BentheViking (May 19, 2011)

Great tip tim…I will have to check that issue out. I usually don't get the woodworking magazines since they are usually so damn expensive, but maybe i'll have to make an exception.


----------



## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

I have seen that an uninsulated can be insulated. Basically foam or styrofoam is attached to the back side of the door. Probably cheaper than replacing the whole door. I do recommend the grizzly site for tinkering with floor space and design. No matter what you can make it work, just organize real well.


----------



## BentheViking (May 19, 2011)

still don't have a shop or most of the tools I plan on having, so its pretty tough to plan too much…i do like the dog feature on there, though the wife would probably be scared the dog would step on a nail or something in the shop


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Shane is correct you can add ridgid insulation it comes in different thicknesses from 1/2" UP TO 3" and of course the thicker it is the higher the R factor.


----------



## FJPetruso (Mar 29, 2008)

Ben…

Because of the shape of my yard I had to build my shop a bit more than twice as long as wide. I found this to workout well when your square footage is limited. A long narrow shop will still allow you to handle long lumber & trim. If there's no room for an overhead door, use double wide 3 foot doors. Opening your entry door OUTWARD saves space in the shop & careful placement of windows & limiting the number of windows saves wall space that is needed for placing power tools & wall and cabinet storage.

One thing I considered when thinking about purchasing a completed home or building was to buy a small older store-front with an apartment upstairs or in the rear. (I found one like that in a historic area that was perfect. But the guy wanted to sell it together with the "historic" property next door that is a "money pit" & made it unreasonably priced. Maybe you could find something similar & more reasonable.)

I also suggest you check out the fellow Lumberjock's profiles, find the box where their Workshops are posted & click on "View Details". You are sure to get ideas there.

Good Luck on your search for info & your future shop!


----------



## RTim (Jan 11, 2011)

If you haven't tried it yet, take advantage of the 14 day free trial to Fine Woodworking Online. The article is available as a PDF and you could get it much cheaper that way. Try your local library network too. They may subscribe.


----------



## SnowyRiver (Nov 14, 2008)

My response would be to get as much space as you can. You can never have enough space. Its easy to think you could get buy with a couple hundred sq ft, but it wont be long and you will want twice that. My shop is 450 sq ft and I wish it was double that size. Also, a high ceiling would be nice with natural light. My shop is connected to my house so I can just go down the hallway in the lower level of the house and go through a door right into the shop which is really nice…dont have to go outside to get there. Plan to put in heat if you are in a cool climate. The heating system in my shop is separate from the house and the air return in the house is not connected to the shop so I dont get any dust back into the house. If you need heat plan to insulate and put in some form of heating. Good lighting is a must too.


----------



## Vrtigo1 (Mar 18, 2010)

Lots of people recommending heat if you're in a cool climate, well the reverse is true as well. I'm in Fla and between May - Sept/Oct working in the shop is done in 20 minute increments because it gets so hot here. Every year I tell myself I'm going to splurge and invest in insulation and a mini-split. I guess my point being, if you have the ability to insulate during construction or at least before you move tools and other stuff in, that will save you frustration down the road.

My shop is a 2 car garage just under 500 sqft and I consider it way too small. I have most of the main WW machines, but I don't have a dedicated bench (I use my outfeed table) and I have a small 6" jointer, etc. If I had an 8" jointer and a bench, I would have no room to walk around. Also keep in mind that I have a shed in the back yard where I store bikes, the mower, etc so I don't have much of anything in the garage that isn't related to WW.

My wife and I built our current house in 2008 before I was into wood working. We have no plans to move any time in the near future, but I've already made it clear that the next house will have a three car garage or a detatched shop space.

I will say that one nice thing I have is a high ceiling…mine is 9.5' which is nice because I can stand a sheet of plywood up and not have to worry about hitting lights or the ceiling.

The other major thing you can save yourself some frustration on is ensuring that your electrical system is up to snuff before you move in. If you are just getting started in WW, don't base your requirements off what you have now, base them off what you plan on having in 5 years. Likely that means you'll want 110v outlets along the walls every 6' or so, and you'll also probably want some 220v outlets as well. You don't necessarily have to put those in immediately but definitely make sure you have the capacity and space in your breaker box to do so down the line.


----------



## BentheViking (May 19, 2011)

GARARGAGHHH….wife met with some realtors today (without me) which sparked another argument about how much shop space i need. I'm hoping for 200 sq ft in a basement or an entire garage bay with ability to go into the driveway. Her thoughts are more in the less than 100 sq. She sees a big shop as taking space away from our future kids and pulling me away from spending time with the family. I know I won't be able to have a massive place with stationary 220v equipment, but I gotta have a place for me.


----------

