# SawStop Industrial Cabinet Saw (ICS31230: 3 hp, 1 phase, 230 V, 13 A)



## DrewM (Mar 10, 2010)

Great review, thanks for all the pictures. That sure is one nice saw (trying not to be super jealous).


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

super review great photo layout Congrat on your new saw.


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## thatwoodworkingguy (May 19, 2010)

Beautiful pictures of a gorgeous saw. And the review was nice as well!
I would love this saw however I have no need and im not at the point to upgrade my table saw.


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## Wolffarmer (Jul 14, 2009)

One sweet setup.


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## Splinterman (Mar 13, 2009)

Hey Steve,
Well done all round.


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## Sailor (Jun 17, 2009)

What excelent looking machinery. I really like the storage you have incorporated into the router fence.


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## Rick_Boyett (Aug 9, 2009)

Drooooooooool


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## doordude (Mar 26, 2010)

congrats on the new purchase, now lets turn out some products


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## doordude (Mar 26, 2010)

steve; took a peek at your shop,clean and organized.saw you live in clovis; and therefore the need for the wall ac unit. great set up. i live in napa,ca


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## rob2 (Nov 27, 2007)

Wow, I have a 3 yr old SS pro and I'm jealous. It is a wonderful saw and the upgrades you got are amazing. SS are great people to work with. WOW


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## Paulsgarage (May 29, 2010)

That is the most beautiful saw I have ever seen! I also am holding out for a Saw Stop but the contractor model. Great pictures and review. Congrats on the new saw and may it bring you much joy in the years to come.


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## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

Steve, this is a nice review. I am sure you will find the saw to be a joy to use and will serve you well for years to come.


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## mcase (Oct 31, 2009)

You are going to love this machine. I've had one for three years and have never been happier with a a product or service.


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## mikedddd (Jul 22, 2009)

Steve: Thanks for the review, good pictures. Your going to love that saw I've had the ICS 51230 for three years now. I would buy it again in a heartbeat.


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## ScottC (Apr 6, 2010)

Excellent pics! You did what I was considering with the router insert in their table. I just got the PCS version with the extension table and it definitely seems beefy enough for a router. Thanks!


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## reggiek (Jun 12, 2009)

Great job on the review. What a fun new toy. SS is certainly on top of my list when I need to upgrade…but thats hopefully a ways off. for now my Grizzly does what it is intended for…and quite nicely. Love the Forrest WW II also….great blade…price - ouch…but still an excellent blade. Let us hear how it goes after it's had a bit of sawdust through it.


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## ChrisForthofer (Jan 1, 2010)

I dont begrudge your purchase, I am sure its a fine unit. I am a firm believer that we should "vote" with our dollars as it were and be educated about the companies we buy products from. Just like I will never buy a Chevy product as long as its backed/owned by the US government, you will not find me spending my dollars on one of these saws given the article below and the numerous others out there.

Table saw suit nets $1.5M verdict
Posted on May 17, 2010 Written by Jennifer Hicks

A recent verdict resulting from a table saw injury raises the issue of whether stricter safety regulations will be imposed on manufacturers. A compelling factor in the case involved SawStop's blade-stopping device, which was not on the saw that caused the injury.

Carlos Osorio of Malden, Mass., severely injured his fingers several years ago in a table saw accident while laying hardwood floors. In March, Osorio was awarded $1.5 million through a jury verdict that found One World Technologies Inc. of Anderson, S.C., maker of Ryobi saws, guilty of negligence in manufacturing and a breach of warranty of merchantability.

"The jury found for us on both counts," says Osorio's lawyer, Richard Sullivan, of Sullivan and Sullivan in Wellesley Heights, Mass. "They found that the saw was defective."

Sullivan filed a lawsuit in 2006 in U.S. District Court in Boston. He says that even after multiple surgeries and medical bills reaching six figures, Osorio's hand is permanently fixed in one position because of two severed tendons. Osorio, now 30, is a Columbian native who had a translator throughout the trial.

Laws supporting the verdict

In Massachusetts, a comparative negligence standard is used, which means if a consumer himself is determined to be 50 percent or less negligent, he can still recover, Sullivan explains. In the Osorio case, the jury assigned 35 percent negligence to Osorio, and 65 percent negligence to Ryobi. But because the saw was also deemed defective, the negligence percentage of the user didn't matter. The breach of warranty of merchantability is a form of strict product liability, making the manufacturer liable for damages regardless of a product user's own mistake.

"If it was only a negligence claim, it would have been reduced by 35 percent. But because it was a defective saw - according to the jury - they found a breach of warranty of merchantability, then there is no reduction for negligence."

Ryobi had 28 days following the veridict to file an appeal. But by mid-April, the clerk's office said no appeal had been filed.

"We don't think there was an appealable error here. [The defense] had a full opportunity to put in their evidence. If anything, the judge bent over backwards to allow the defendants to put in whatever they wanted and was somewhat restrictive in terms of what we could get in, so I don't see any grounds for an appeal here," says Sullivan.

"We are evaluating the results with our lawyers, and evaluating how to proceed," says Jason Swanson, a spokesman for One World Technologies, in a prepared statement. "Notwithstanding the outcome of this trial and any possible appeal, we remain confident that the saw which was the subject of this lawsuit was well-designed and manufactured with all due consideration for the needs and safety of the consumer."

The Home Depot, where the saw was purchased, was also a defendant, but the jury decided it was not liable. Sullivan says that finding is inconsistent with Massachusetts law, which basically says that if a saw is found defective under implied warranty, the seller of the saw is liable without regard to fault. If there is an appeal, the plaintiff's legal team will raise that issue. It would not have an impact on the amount set in the verdict.

SawStop's involvement

Videos of SawStop's safety device were shown at the trial and testimony was provided by inventor Stephen Gass.

Gass testified that his technology could be put on a smaller saw, such as the Ryobi BTS 15 involved in the accident. Gass explained that Ryobi had a chance to patent the device and signed a license agreement in 2002. When he noticed a typo in the agreement and called Ryobi back for a correction, the delays began, and after several attempts, Ryobi never followed through.

"The basic theory of the case was that the saw should have had something like SawStop - either SawStop or something that the industry has developed on its own to prevent such an injury. The question in debate was whether SawStop would have prevented the injury and whether SawStop was technically viable with the saw. The jury found that it was and that it would have prevented the injury," says Gass in an interview with Woodshop News.

"Therefore, the design of the bench-top table saw was defective because it did not have a system to protect the user in the event of contact. That's a big deal in terms of the statement this sends to manufacturers about making their saws reasonably safe."

The phrase "reasonably safe" comes down to an economic test, explains Gass. It wouldn't make sense to put a $1 million device on a $100 saw to prevent injuries. The test is whether the cost is more to prevent the injury than the cost of the injuries that would be prevented.

Initiation of claim

While Osorio brought this claim himself, his company's workers' compensation insurer in Massachusetts had experienced enough table saw injuries to hire his legal team as a third-party plaintiff. The insurer will get back whatever the dollar amount paid in medical bills and the plaintiff's out-of-work expenses from the verdict amount.

The plaintiff's co-counsel, George Carpinello, explained that workers' compensation insurers are looking for legal help with similar claims. "Some of our clients, five major insurance companies around the country, have said enough is enough. Steven Gass introduced this technology to Ryobi back in the fall of 2000. And Ryobi reviewed the technology briefly, negotiated with Gass for over a year, signed a contract with Gass to use the technology and then never did anything."

Ryobi offered depositions at trial from their representatives. Gass and the plaintiff's legal team both said these depositions revealed that Ryobi representatives pointed fingers at each other about the contract not being put into effect.

Carpinello adds that because of the lawsuit, the Consumer Product Safety Commission is considering a rule requiring flesh-detection technology on table saws.

"That process has not formally been initiated, but we know that last fall the Power Tool Institute (a group of power tool manufacturers) went back to the CPSC and urged them not to adopt the rule; and Gass went down and urged them to adopt the rule. Our understanding is that the commission directed the staff to begin the rulemaking process, although the rule has not yet been published in the Federal Register."

More suits?

Gass says the precedent being formed is one he's foreseen for a long time.

"I think this establishes what I have thought all along and that is that saws that don't incorporate SawStop being sold today are unreasonably dangerous and defective and should not be sold. I don't think it is ethical or responsible for a manufacturer today to produce a table saw without something to protect the user beyond the standard guards," says Gass.

Sullivan confirmed that he and Carpinello are involved in approximately 60 pending lawsuits throughout the U.S. against table saw manufacturers for failing to adopt the SawStop blade-stopping device. Half of the pending lawsuits involve Ryobi.

"We're working mainly on suits against Ryobi, which is by far the biggest, because Ryobi is a big seller and a lot of these accidents occur on the lower-end saws," he says.

"The only reasons these [table saw] lawsuits exist is we have documented technology [SawStop] that says you put your finger into a blade for whatever reason and that blade is going to retract such that you're going to have a minor scratch in 99 percent of the cases … and manufacturers presented with that technology say they're not going to use it."


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## Beginningwoodworker (May 5, 2008)

Nice looking saw.


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## nmkidd (Sep 18, 2009)

Pretty neat looking saw…..............good review…...all the pics were great

Enjoy!!!


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## blackcherry (Dec 7, 2007)

Dose it make sawdust because I can't see any yet…LOL…enjoy and stay safe…Blkcherry


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## shopmania (Sep 8, 2009)

Beautiful saw! I would love to have one of these one day!


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

Beautifull saw! I would give up my Unisaw in a second for one of those..and I love my Unisaw!


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## blockhead (May 5, 2009)

I am so sorry you got stuck with that, but don't worry I am here to help. Send me your address and I will get that thing outta there, even at no charge. Never let it be said that I am not here to help!

Seriously sweet setup you have there Steve!


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## stevenmadden (Dec 10, 2009)

*glivingston*: You lost me, not sure what you meant.

*Sailor*: Yeah, the extra storage was by accident, but it worked out nice.

*Rick Boyett*: Not on my saw you don't 

*doordude*: I will get right on that.

*Rob Drown*: Yes, they are a great company to do business with.

*ChrisForthofer*: Not sure that this was the best place to post your rant. The decision to go with SawStop, for me, was based on one thing (one very important thing); the blade brake. I know that this is a very controversial subject right now, but I had to do what was best for me. You might be better off posting your comment in a thread, on LumberJocks or elsewhere, where the controversy is the focus of the discussion.

*blackcherry*: Yes, it makes plenty of sawdust, but captures most of it ;-) Seriously though, I cleaned it up pretty good for the big photo shoot.

*Brad_Nailor*: Wow, those are some strong words coming from a Unisaw owner, LOL. Actually, I think the new Delta Unisaw is a better saw in many ways; one piece solid cast iron trunnion system, up front controls, larger throat plate opening, not to mention made in the U.S.A.

*blockhead*: All right, but you better bring 4 or 5 of your strongest friends! That thing is a beast, 650lbs worth. Thanks for looking out for me.

*Everyone*: Thanks for the comments.

Steve


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## dtj5 (Dec 18, 2009)

Great review…I bought one in March 2010 but have not used it yet as I work out of the Country and am just finishing my new shop. What plans (if any) did you use for your out feed table? 
I have been waiting on the new upgraded dust collection blade guard to show up on the accessory site of SS but no luck as yet.


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## stevenmadden (Dec 10, 2009)

*dtj5*: My out feed table happened some what by accident, it used to serve as my workbench. The table is made of a 4'x5' sheet of 3/4" baltic birch ply that is supported by 2×4 runners (very straight) that are attached with screws to the underside of the plywood top, this was then sitting on top of two sawhorses and acting as my workbench. After I got my SawStop set up, I removed one of the sawhorses and rested that side of the workbench on the metal rail attached to the out feed side of the SawStop. It fit perfectly, the 3/4" ply and the 2×4 support added up to about an 1/8" below the cast iron table. I leveled the other end and screwed the workbench (now an out feed table/workbench) to the metal bracket from underneath using the screws that had held the plywood box on the shipping crate of the SawStop. I did have to rout the miter slot extensions using a 1" diameter bit in my plunge router.

I think if you call SawStop regarding the upgraded dust collection, they will help you out. I have found their customer service to be excellent. Congratulations on your new SawStop, I think you will be very happy with it.

Steve


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## dtj5 (Dec 18, 2009)

Steve, thanks for the information. I think I will do something similar for my out feed table. I will also check with SS about the upgraded collection system.
I've got a funny story (was not funny at the time) about the Industrial SS I bought…When it was delivered I assembled the saw and went about cleaning it all up. The saw was delivered with the left wing extension in place and it checked flush with the table. As I was cleaning the left wing my right thumb was sliding under the edge of the wing end and there was a very sharp edge remaining from the casting. I sliced my thumb and required 4 stitches to close it up. I sent SS and email with the picture of my thumb and requested that they check their QC for that item. The sent me an email back thanking me for the information and said they had changed their QC for this item. At least I didn't cut it on the saw blade.

Tim


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## sillac (Oct 31, 2010)

Looks like it has been awhile since anyone has posted here. My feeling on the safety issue is that for myself I am very carefully around a TS, and for me the saw break is not that big of a deal. However, what if a friend, neighbor, or family member got hurt on my saw? Not only would I feel bad, very bad indeed, but there would be the threat of legal action take against me. Maybe my insurance would take care of it, then the rates would go up no doubt, in the mean time if I have a Saw Stop, maybe I can save a little on my rates and have a some peace of mine. So you get a great saw, that looks fantastic, with added safety. almost sounds like a no brainier!

Anyway thanks for sharing the pics, Steve in Oregon


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## stevenmadden (Dec 10, 2009)

*sillac*: Yeah, for me it was a no-brainer. It's not for everyone, but I have heard too many "the one time I didn't or the one time I wasn't…" stories to not spend the extra money. I am still extremely careful around the SawStop, and all the other tools in my shop that can chew my hands up, but feel better having that extra level of safety on the one I seem to use the most. Thanks for posting.

Steve


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Well, one thing is for sure. It sure is a beautiful piece of machinery and I love the pictures that you have taken of it.


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## stevenmadden (Dec 10, 2009)

*CharlieL*: I have the aluminum ring set that you mentioned. Last summer Woodpeckers sold their remaining inventory of the aluminum and the response was so strong that they decided to take pre-orders for a one-time run of the aluminum, so I decided to go for it. They are much nicer than the plastic set that came with the lift.

As for the Delta Unisaw, I believe it is the best table saw on the market right now and hope that you are able to get one soon. As for me, I felt that the blade breaking technology in the SawStop outweighed the benefits of the Delta Unisaw. Before I purchased the SawStop from my local woodworking supply company, I had a conversation with the owner. The comment that he made that still sticks with me is this; the Delta Unisaw is a great saw but it will cut your finger right off whereas the SawStop is also a great saw and it won't cut your finger off. There is plenty of room for argument, but like I said, for me it was a no-brainer.

Steve


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Steve,

Thanks for some beautiful pictures of your awesome saw !

Enjoy it !!


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## newTim (Jul 11, 2008)

Steve… thanks for all the pictures. I just got the 3HP Industrial w/ 36" fence. Do you have any pictures with the dust collection (tube) system in place?

Re the Unisaw/Sawstop. I got to test drive my neighbor's new unisaw before I got the SS. While I did like the location of the wheels and the trunion system, I have to say that even without the brake, the Sawstop is every bit as good if not better. The fit and finish, as well as other details and the mechanics, are incredible. I traded up from a DeltaX Unisaw which is also a great saw. And its for sale.


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## stevenmadden (Dec 10, 2009)

*newTim*: Congratulations on your new SawStop! I have no doubt that you are going to love it. As for the over-arm dust collection tube, I don't have this feature yet. I bought my SawStop before this was available and still have not ordered one, other things seem to keep jumping in line ahead of it. Have fun and be safe with your new table saw.

Steve


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

*Steve*:

I'm starting to get serious about shopping for a cabinet saw. The ICS is at the top of my list.

I'm pretty well sold on, and aware of, all of its *positive* attributes. I'm wondering whether-having used yours for a while now-you've become aware of any negatives ??

Hope it's still a honeymoon for you and your saw


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## newTim (Jul 11, 2008)

I bought one a few months ago and really like it. I was swayed by the reviews and advice I received on this site to get the SS Industrial v. the Professional, and got the 36" which fits better in my garage shop than my 2004 52" Unisaw. The only problems I've had is figuring out the initial adjustments and changing the brake cartridge. My hands are very large and you plug in the cartridge under the arbor. Your view is blocked and you end up doing it by feel or getting on your knees to gain access and visibility through the dust shroud on the right. However, it doesn't take but a few times and you know right were the plug (USB plug) is and how to line it up with a pivot pin which registers the fit. I can now change cartridges in a matter of seconds. I still refer to the manual for steps on how to use the saw to detect too much moisture. And I did ruin one blade when I didn't pay attention to the diagnostic lights that indicated it was too close to the brake (should be about the width of a nickel). It is very accurate and a real pleasure to use. The wheel base is also amazing although I don't move the saw around much.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

What a wonderful pictorial you've given us. Think what you want about SS, that's a beautiful setup you've made yourself. Thank you so much for this review.

Hey Tim, is that an Excaliber boom you've got there? Do you feel like it helps? I'm considering all of these things here.


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## mikedddd (Jul 22, 2009)

I've had mine for four years now, no complaints here.

Bertha : thats Sawstop's overarm dust collection.

http://www.sawstop.com/overarm-dust-collection/


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Really, Mike? Thanks. It seems a bit small bore, is it functional? I really appreciate the link. I'm a sawstop hater, but I'm coming around


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## mikedddd (Jul 22, 2009)

Bertha: I couldn't tell you how well it works, I don't have one on my saw it wasn't available when I bought mine. I'm not totally sure but I think on the older saws like mine, you would have to change a couple of parts to use the newer dust collection stuff.


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## stevenmadden (Dec 10, 2009)

*NBeener*: To answer your question, I have nothing negative to say about my SawStop. It's a great table saw, I don't think you can go wrong.

*newTim*: Beautiful set-up, congratulations on your new saw.

*Bertha*: Thanks for the compliment.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Thanks much for the feedback, both of you. I'm glad the saw is everything you'd hoped.

I've kept the 5HP Uni, the 5HP PM2000, and the SS ICS on the short list for quite a while. Might be 30-90 days before/if I pull the trigger, but … since the underlying SS is always considered as good as any other saw … it'll be tough NOT to look at the brake as just a huge bonus !


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## newTim (Jul 11, 2008)

Re the overhead dust collection. Yes it works well. The motor and arbor on the SS is also surrounded by a case so the dust that falls below the blade is contained in a smaller area than the saw's cabinet. I think the new Unisaw and probably most of the other saws have this feature as well. It does seem to me that the larger volume of the Excalibur type of overarm collectors would work better because they move a higher volume of air. On the other hand, there is no gap between the clear plastic blade guard on the SS and the table. And it has channels built in to direct the dust from the front of the blade over the top and to the back. If you take a close look at Steven's photo of the Upgraded Blade Guard above you can see the anti-kickback pawls which in this photo are in the recessed/locked position. They are very sharp and work extremely well when deployed. The blade guard and riving knife are quick and easy to change.

Another couple of things about the SS. The fit and finish are extraordinary. And the owners/instruction manual is like a four-color magazine.


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## cgdeca (Sep 25, 2011)

Hi Guys

Great review and comments regarding the Sawstop, helped me pull the trigger on my new Industrial 3hp 36" Sawstop. Since the pictures and comments were already so helpful im hoping that you guys can be even more helpful, i want to instal my router lift as you have done Steve but im having trouble finding and articles or pages online with a clear way to do it. I have thought about it for a couple of days and think i have it figured out but im hoping you all can offer some hints and tips to help the job go a little smother. I purchased the Kreg PRS3000 router lift and want to instal it in the extension table as shown above. Im also wondering why they are installed vertically as a pose to horizontally which i think would look better ascetically but since they are all done this way im sure there is a simple reason im overlooking. Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

Looking forward to your responses.


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## cgdeca (Sep 25, 2011)

I


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## cgdeca (Sep 25, 2011)

I


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## cgdeca (Sep 25, 2011)

I


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## cgdeca (Sep 25, 2011)

I


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## stevenmadden (Dec 10, 2009)

*cgdeca*:

My procedure went something like this:

First I drew my layout lines in pencil (based on the inside dimensions provided by the lift manufacturer), which was hard to do on the black surface. Anyway, once the inside lines were established (I used the rip fence to establish the parallel lines front/back and then worked from there, be sure that the fence is aligned and square before you do this), I then drilled four holes near the corners to make the turns easier when jigsawing the rough opening. I kept away from the line about a 1/16" to 1/8", then I clamped a straight edge and used a straight cutter bit in my hand held router (I clamped the straight edge the distance relative to the distance from the router cutter head and the edge of the base plate in order to get a perfect cut to the line). Once all four sides were done, I clamped my router lift template around the rough opening (template was purchased from Woodpeckers, http://www.woodpeck.com/inserttemplate.html#145 ), installed the pattern bit that came with it, and routed to the correct depth. That was it.

As for the orientation, I wanted to work from the end of the saw and use the rip fence in conjunction with the router fence I built. With my particular lift, that meant I needed to face it in that direction to make sense (that is, the controls for height adjustment, etc., are facing me when at the end of the saw rather than in front of the saw). Not sure if that made sense, but I think if you want to turn your lift in another direction, that shouldn't be a problem.

I did not have any problem with the black top material chipping, it seems to be pretty tough. I wasn't all that worried about things going wrong as this is a temporary solution, I plan to make a torsion box like the one I made for my old table saw. I'm not sure when that will happen, this one turned out quite well (although my extension table was not dead flat, so that may be a problem in the near future).

Good luck and let me know if you have any questions. I hope this was helpful.

By the way, the pictures you tried to post did not come through, I was not able to see them.

Steve


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## cgdeca (Sep 25, 2011)

Thanks Steve.

I attempted my install today and all in all it went pretty well, my only screw up was in the corners. I used a half inch router bit and i guess i should have used a 3/4 bit to get the curvature of the router lift plate right. I plan on using a melted plastic yo fill in the gaps rather than a wood filler so i can keep the shiny look of the extension table, i will get that done tomorrow and i will post some pictures so you can see my efforts.

I was wondering where you picked up you power switch for your router, i thought that was a great idea so it matches the on/off switch on the saw, and like you i think i will eventual build an enclosure around the router and i would like to add some draws under the extension table to keep some of the tools and odds and ends that i would like to keep close when using the saw.

Thanks again for your help and advice, im very excited to get going on my long list of projects that i have planned.


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## stevenmadden (Dec 10, 2009)

*cgdeca*: Sorry for the delay, I picked up the on/off switch at my local saw shop, Ideal Saw Works. I believe they got it from Rockler, but I'm not sure. Good luck.

Steve


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## lanwater (May 14, 2010)

Thanks for the review Steve,
You got some excellent pictures.

I have had mine for well over a year now and have mixed feeling about it.

From your pictures I see minor modifications and that is reassuring that nothing major needed change.


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## Rkripler (Apr 10, 2013)

Did you buy that extension wing with the router lift in it or is that something you made.


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## stevenmadden (Dec 10, 2009)

*Rkripler*: That extension wing came with the saw, I just cut a hole in it and dropped my router lift in. I have since upgraded to a torsion box extension wing, which is far superior. The original was not flat at all, the torsion box is as flat as the day I built it. You can check it out here:

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/60978

Thanks!

Steve


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