# Need advise on finish for Cherry



## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

I am planning to build some bedroom furniture from Cherry and would like the finish to be natural looking with low gloss. After doing some research I see two basic options, oils or poly.
I have had some good results using satin wipe on poly and the finish should be durable and not need much maintenance.
I am not sure how oil would compare in terms of looks and durability, I don't want to have to reapply it periodically unless its a long time. I like the idea of using tung oil being that is non toxic. I would prefer to use something that doesn't give off noxious fumes during and after application but I realize that isn't always possible.
I realize that Cherry darkens over time and some people try to stain it. I just want to leave it natural and don't care specifically what the color is. It is what it is. I am hoping to finish the surface with a hand plane and not do any sanding. Of course I will be doing some testing on scrap pieces.

Thanks


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

I had a Cherry bar built for our kitchen remodel and it is finished with satin lacquer; sprayed on.
It looks beautiful, but I worry about how durable it will be with water getting on it and such.

You can use oil to get the best look for the grain and then seal it, after it dries, with dewaxed shellac. 
Then, after lightly sanding the shellac, you can top coat with water based poly. 
This is the best of both worlds. Looks great and is durable.
What I plan to do if the lacquer dies on my bar.


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## Sawdustmaker115 (Sep 8, 2013)

> I had a Cherry bar built for our kitchen remodel and it is finished with satin lacquer; sprayed on.
> It looks beautiful, but I worry about how durable it will be with water getting on it and such.
> 
> You can use oil to get the best look for the grain and then seal it afte it dries with dewaxed shellac.
> ...


+ 1


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## derosa (Aug 21, 2010)

I really like the look of Danish oil and wax, let's the grain show through nicely and cherry is reasonably tough enough as bedroom furniture to not really need a tough finish. Could end up with water stains on the end tables so supply coasters if you bring a drink to bed.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

Satin Arm-R-Seal. It will naturally darken over time. Looks like this:


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## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

> I had a Cherry bar built for our kitchen remodel and it is finished with satin lacquer; sprayed on.
> It looks beautiful, but I worry about how durable it will be with water getting on it and such.
> 
> You can use oil to get the best look for the grain and then seal it, after it dries, with dewaxed shellac.
> ...


What are pros and cons of different oils such tung, danish, linseed?
Does the poly have to be water based? I am asking because I don't think it looks that good, but admit I don't have a lot of experience with it.
Yes I wanted to avoid fumes but I could make an exception here.


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## ChefHDAN (Aug 7, 2010)

My cherry hall table was finished with 3 coats of BLO and they 3 coats of water based poly, these are current pics and if you look at the pics in my projects from 4 years ago you can see how it darkened. I built this with lumber from a sawyer who could assure me the lumber was from the same tree and the aging is consistent.


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## Pezking7p (Nov 17, 2013)

Wipe on oil-based poly isn't so bad. I finished a side table in my house last winter with watch satin poly. Never noticed the smell, though it was in a room we don't use often. I think it's easy to apply and it makes the cherry look good, too.

I think the only reason to use an oil (not an oil finish like Danish oil, which is a varnish not an oil) is because of the color it adds such as BLO, or because you want it to make the grain look a certain way. From what you're saying about how you want the cherry to look, I think you should skip the oil and just use poly.


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

I work mostly with Cherry. The best finish I've found is Waterlox. I prefer a satin finish. I hate the plastic looks. I spray it on. It's ann oil base finish so you apply a coat wait 24hrs and do a 2n'd . I generally go with 3 coats and rub out the last one.

If you want a water base then I'd go general finishes high performance for a top coat. I've sprayed a coat and in two hours been ready to do another. If you want to color, don't stain! Use Dyes.

Here is Waterlox on a hutch I did and a wine cabinet. 
https://flic.kr/s/aHsjDQLAxi

The Bed is general finishes dye and High performance top coat. 
https://flic.kr/s/aHsjDxpcFT

The biggest difference between the two finishes is that the oil will give the nice amber hue and it the most labor intensive.

The water base is the easiest to use, and the most forgiving!

Good luck!


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

For me, products like tung oil, danish oil, etc. make the grain of the wood have depth.
Just make it look good.
But, I don't think these types of products are as durable as poly.
They can be easily re-applied as needed because re-application will just melt into the existing surface.
So, for some applications they are just fine, especially if you don't mind renewing it ocassionally.

Poly on the other hand forms a shell, a protective coating, but can't be re-applied after it's finished without sanding and prep work.

Water based poly is very durable, odorless, an does not yellow or change the color of the wood, but tends to look a little bland. That's why I suggested poly over oil with a shellac barrier coat between. Oil for the depth and to make the grain pop, shellac to give the poly something to grab onto, and the poly to be the protective coating.
Not my invention, I read it in Fine Woodworking Magazine.


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## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

> I work mostly with Cherry. The best finish I ve found is Waterlox. I prefer a satin finish. I hate the plastic looks. I spray it on. It s ann oil base finish so you apply a coat wait 24hrs and do a 2n d . I generally go with 3 coats and rub out the last one.
> 
> If you want a water base then I d go general finishes high performance for a top coat. I ve sprayed a coat and in two hours been ready to do another. If you want to color, don t stain! Use Dyes.
> 
> ...


I really like the look of the Waterlox, but read it can months to cure and smells during that time.
Is there a way to achieve a similar look without the long cure time?
Didn't care for the General Finishes top coat too shiny and plasticky.

BTW beautiful and insipring work.


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## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

How did you finish the wood before applying the Waterlox?
Hand plane or sanding or ?

Thanks



> I work mostly with Cherry. The best finish I ve found is Waterlox. I prefer a satin finish. I hate the plastic looks. I spray it on. It s ann oil base finish so you apply a coat wait 24hrs and do a 2n d . I generally go with 3 coats and rub out the last one.
> 
> If you want a water base then I d go general finishes high performance for a top coat. I ve sprayed a coat and in two hours been ready to do another. If you want to color, don t stain! Use Dyes.
> 
> ...


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## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

> Satin Arm-R-Seal. It will naturally darken over time. Looks like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks a possibility. Maybe a good trade off between looks, durability and not too much labor.


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

> How did you finish the wood before applying the Waterlox?
> Hand plane or sanding or ?
> 
> Thanks
> ...


I sand starting with 100 if any lines need evening etc. I move up to 220 on all surfaces, and one grit higher on end-grain. I use that on all wood. The tops like on a table I'll go up to 400 on the top, then use wet/dry autobody paper and use mineral spirits and go up to 2000 if I want a real rubbed out finish.

https://flic.kr/s/aHsjvaxHi6

I only do that on tops that have a high finish. 220 is fine for other finishes. If you use waterlox a couple suggestions.

1 scuff coat light between coats.

2 watch for runs! It will happen after you walk away. Hit it with light and watch it.

If you get any runs and you get it early use masking tape to dab it off. It will flow back out. If you miss it. Use a razor blade as a scraper and scrape the high part off and hit it with another coat. It will flow together. I've fixed many a runs like that.

I love waterlox though. Especially if you like natural cherry. !!

Good luck and do some trial runs. (do vertacle surfaces to practice)


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

Oil based polyurethane is about the toughest finish we have today. Usually the more it costs the more plastic it has in it and the stronger the finish. There are a million options. It just depends on what you want. I like Verathane for a strong finish. It comes in satin or gloss. Lots of other finishes but none as strong or durable.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I think something that needs to be addressed is Cherries propensity to blotch, This can make a huge difference in the finished pieces appearance after applying stain..Think about a wood conditioner, I like Charles Neil's conditioner blotch control and have had great success with it.

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/1430


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

> I think something that needs to be addressed is Cherries propensity to blotch, This can make a huge difference in the finished pieces appearance after applying stain..Think about a wood conditioner, I like Charles Neil s conditioner blotch control and have had great success with it.
> 
> http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/1430
> 
> - a1Jim


I like his conditioner too. I also would never use a stain on cherry for that reason. Dyes, stay on top and will minimize that. However, a few of us, don't call it blotching but blushing. In many cases adds to the natual beauty of cherry. I always tell clients if they want complete uniform look then go with maple dye it to look like cherry and they will have a better shot of getting that uniformity. But then I hate uniformity  Have a good one.


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## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

> I think something that needs to be addressed is Cherries propensity to blotch, This can make a huge difference in the finished pieces appearance after applying stain..Think about a wood conditioner, I like Charles Neil s conditioner blotch control and have had great success with it.
> 
> http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/1430
> 
> - a1Jim


Would blotching be a problem if I am not staining, just using something like Armrseal?


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Joel 
Blotching happens because some woods (including cherry) have some spots the absorb stains and finishes more than the rest of the wood making those sections darker. Depending on how a finish is applied and what kind of finish is used it can still blotch. The safest way to minimize the penetration of the wood is to spray your finish on. Testing a scrap piece of wood that has been sanded the same way as your project can give you an idea of will happen when you apply your finish to your project,If in doubt use a conditioner,but even conditioners can cause blotching and samples may very too. Nothing is a 100% safe from blotching. So far I've had great success with Charles product.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

Joel, don't sweat the blotching if you're not trying to stain it.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

If you're not coloring it, any blotching will even out over time-usually pretty quickly.


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## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

Ok so I would rather not pay $40 for the pre conditioner and extra work to apply it.
I will get some Arm R Seal and try it on some scrap.
Thanks for all the feedback its been very helpful.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Joel 
As an alternative you can try two thinned down coats of dewaxed shellac. (1LB cut)


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## TheWoodenOyster (Feb 6, 2013)

I've done pure tung oil and oil based poly on cherry. I prefer oil based poly for multiple reasons. I would caution you against using oil unless you really just want to be old school.


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## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

So I got some Arm R Seal and so far applied two coats to a scrap of cherry that I finished with a hand plane.
The surface looks and feels extremely smooth but if I look off angle (almost parallel) to the surface I see some streaking and dull spots. If I look straight on at it I don't see any of the streaks. In between the first and second coat I buffed it with a brown paper bag, maybe that wasn't enough? I read about using an ROS with 320 grit so maybe I will try that before the next coat. After the last coat should i do any buffing on it or just leave it?
I also got some blotching which my wife didn't like so it looks like i will be using the pre-conditioner.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

Joel,

The secret to Arm-R-Seal is not to try to fix it as far as streaks or dull spots. It takes a few coats, each one will "fix" the previous as far as streaks, etc. It will all come out okay in the end. The first coat usually looks like a disaster.

As for blotching, if you wait a few days or weeks, it will be gone.


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## Pezking7p (Nov 17, 2013)

Joel,

Are you using a semi-gloss arm r seal? If so, streaking can occur during application by wiping too hard, which causes streaks of the matting agent in the finish.

If you are using regular gloss arm r seal, consider wiping off all excess after application. Additionally, it can take 3-4 coats to achieve a consistent film, this may take care of the dull spots, but I doubt it will take care of the streaks (but it might take care of the streaks, too).

For the blotching….well yah you're going to have to use a preconditioner. I had good success by using extremely light coats of seal-a-cell, but obviously my wood is not your wood.


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## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

> Joel,
> 
> Are you using a semi-gloss arm r seal? If so, streaking can occur during application by wiping too hard, which causes streaks of the matting agent in the finish.
> 
> ...


I am using satin Arm R Seal. I tried to follow the instructions and not wipe too hard, but I might not know what that feels like. Is sanding with an ROS between coats a good idea? Since this is scrap I having nothing to loose by trying it.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

No ROS!. Arm-R-Seal is thin.

I really think you're over-thinking it. The beauty of Arm-R-Seal is that, while you may want to light sand with fine grit paper or a nylon sanding pad (or a paper bag?), you trust it and let it heal itself in most cases, it will. I use cotton cloth folded over, moistened with mineral spirits, and then apply it evenly and softly.

It took me awhile to trust the wiping varnish.


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## Pezking7p (Nov 17, 2013)

Sanding with an ROS is only useful if you want to take off ALL the arm r seal that you've put on. However, sanding by hand as you normally would isn't going to help either, because in order to get rid of the streaks you have to sand all the way down through the finish.

Here's a series of emails that kind of walk you through the process. I've not personally encountered this problem, but it's common enough that it's on arm r seal's info. Not for nothing, but I have been using watco satin wipe on poly and I have no issues. (this could also be related to my 3 base coats being gloss, and only the last 2 coats being satin poly)

http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/how-to-finish-without-streaks/


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## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

> I really think you re over-thinking it.


I am often told this, its part of being an engineer and something I always try to control.
I will try some light sanding and keep applying then.
How does the mineral spirits help?


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

I think it makes the cloth glide a little more smoothly. This was the method I learned from thewoodwhisperer, and it really works for me. I always want to go back and fix every gap, every streak, every imperfection, but if I let it dry, and put on another coat, etc., I find it generally works out in the end.

FYI, I know you are experimenting and using the satin so you only bought one container, but I use the gloss until the last coat or two, because you have to keep mixing the satin or semi-gloss to keep the solids in the varnish that tone down the gloss.


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## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

> I think it makes the cloth glide a little more smoothly. This was the method I learned from thewoodwhisperer, and it really works for me. I always want to go back and fix every gap, every streak, every imperfection, but if I let it dry, and put on another coat, etc., I find it generally works out in the end.
> 
> FYI, I know you are experimenting and using the satin so you only bought one container, but I use the gloss until the last coat or two, because you have to keep mixing the satin or semi-gloss to keep the solids in the varnish that tone down the gloss.
> 
> - CharlesA


I just read about using gloss until the final coat so i will do that on the real project.
I might even go with the semi gloss instead of satin. I wanted the wood to look natural but I think the semi gloss might give it some depth and the underlying gloss might help that too.
I also read someone recommended to apply it in a swirling motion instead of with the grain.
Which one do you do? So many nuances and much to learn here, but I guess that is usually the case.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

I apply it in long strokes, and I don't press down hard-just gentle long strokes.

I like the satin because I think it makes the wood look more natural.


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## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

I am thinking I should give Waterlox a try also:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/35830/upright-cherry-chest-of-drawers


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

You might like it better, but just remember, that is after a full set of coats of finish and cherry, even after a few days, changes color. Hard to compare a fully finished piece with one in the midst of finishing.


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## iminmyshop (Dec 9, 2012)

Blotching can ruin a fine piece of woodwork and Cherry has a tendency to blotch more than a lot of other woods. You can test your piece by coating it with denatured alcohol. It will raise the grain a bit too which is fine since you want to do that before your final light sanding and applying a finish anyway. 
Sanding the piece more than you usually wood also minimizes blotching. Whatever final finish I apply to cherry I use a thinned coat of dewaxed shellac (1 lb cut). This pretty much is the best way to stop the blotching. Fine Woodworking had a good article on it in their September/October 2008 issue where they tested all the common ways used to prevent blotching cherry.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

I replaced the Danish oil, waterlox, and other "oil" finishes with solvent poly many years ago. Arm-R-Seal is just poly, but it is a good one. Provides superior durability is a lot cheaper vs all the "oil" finishes. I did many comparative tests. It's all about solids content. The "plastic look and feel" of poly many mention is a combination of sheen and film thickness. The higher the sheen and or film thickness, the more "plastic" the look and feel. Oil finishes have low solids (most actually have a little urethane solids content) so they don't build much film thickness. A relatively thick film of satin poly (as compared to the "oil" finishes) can be used because of the low sheen.

For a "close to the grain" finish, use either satin or semi gloss poly and thin it 25-50% with mineral spirits or naptha. Application is the same as the oils, flood the surface, wait 5 minutes or so, keep brushing dry spots as the finish is absorbed, wipe off. Let dry 4-6 hrs or longer, lightly steel wool or scotchbrite, do another coat. While cherry will blotch with stain or dye, I'm not sure it's an issue with "clear" poly, or the oil finishes. If you can test some thinned poly and one of the oil finishes, I think you will see they are indistinguishable.

If testing shows blotching, mineral spirits or naptha can be used as a conditioner. Blotching is nothing more than uneven absorption due to different grain structure. Flooding the surface with the finish's solvent until absorption stops, and then allowing it to evaporate for a few minutes, causes even absorption of the finish then applied.

I have used waterborne lacquer and poly to achieve a "close to the grain" finish, but they need to be sprayed for a thin film thickness, and need a little amber dye added to get the same color that solvent lacquer and poly have.


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## cax (Sep 24, 2014)

They can be easily re-applied as needed because re-application will just melt into the existing surface.
So, for some applications they are just fine, especially if you don't mind renewing it ocassionally.


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