# odd reaction - Titebond 2 and poplar



## LesD (Dec 8, 2020)

I am just curious if anyone has ever seen this or may have any idea what happened. I am working on a project using poplar (which I have used many times) and Titebond 2 (which I have also used many times). I took my panel glue ups out of the clamps last night and found something strange. The glue seems to have had some kind of weird chemical reaction with the tannins in the wood. There is a orange / pinkish discoloration extending about 3/16" beyond the actual glue to wood contact, not just exactly where the glue was. It clearly looks like a chemical reaction that has extended into the wood fibers. I was able to mill and sand enough to get rid of it (a LOT of milling and sanding). But, I don't want this to happen on the rest of the project around all of my through tenons when I assemble it. Has anyone ever seen this? Any idea what caused it? Should I use a different glue? Would Titebond original be better? Maybe WeldBond (which I've never used)? This is a strictly indoor piece, so water resistance is not a concern, I was just using the Titebond 2 because I had it and I use it on pretty much everything.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

I have seen that too. My experience was with Alder it's taught me to be conservative with Titebond bond 2 .
My gut tells me it was a bad mix in the bottle.
Good Luck


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## BlueRidgeDog (Jan 2, 2019)

I use #2 for longer assembly time on complex joins. So it is typically on areas that are not seen (tenons etc). Flat surface glue ups and things like drawers get regular titebond. #2 is a different animal and I don't use it as a general purpose glue all, especially on blond or softer wood.


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## LesD (Dec 8, 2020)

> ...My gut tells me it was a bad mix in the bottle.
> Good Luck
> 
> - Aj2


The odd thing is that the glue is from a gallon jug that is about half empty and I haven't seen this on other projects, even with Poplar.


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## LesD (Dec 8, 2020)

Do you think I'd be less likely to have this issue with regular Titebond Original?
Or is there something else you would recommend?
I don't want to risk dealing with this on the rest of this project.


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## BlueRidgeDog (Jan 2, 2019)

I use gallons of regular Titebond. No issues. Lately I have been giving old brown hide glue a go for longer work times.


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## Cold_Pizza (Jan 30, 2019)

Can confirm it happens with 3 also.


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## LesB (Dec 21, 2008)

To avoid more problems with this project I would change glues. You could test a urethane glue (Gorilla glue) but be aware it needs moderate clamping because it tends to expand as it cures (good it works into wood grain) and squeeze out foams up and can be easily scraped off after it cures. Avoid squeeze out by using very thin coat on one side of the joint. Moistening one the other side of the glue joint speed up the curing process.

I use Titebond III for most everything so I don't have to keep multiple types of it on hand. I do keep urethane glue and CA glue for things that need it.


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## LesD (Dec 8, 2020)

I do have some urethane glue on hand. I just try to avoid it due to the foam out. But, if that will help avoid staining I'll use it.
I may test on some scrap.
I guess I've just been lucky up until now, I use TB2 on everything and I've never seen this. Stains from where the glue actually was in contact with the wood, yes. But never this discoloration spreading away from the glue line.


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## bilyo (May 20, 2015)

I have not had this experience. However, just a thought. You might try Elmer's Glue All. It is a similar glue but is white and dries clear. Try it on some scrap and see what it does. Please let us know how it works.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

Or Elmer's carpenter glue. It is yellow.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

Hmm, i use TB2 and poplar all the time and have never seen this. Maybe the poplar was sprayed with a chemical that is reacting?


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## Nubsnstubs (Aug 30, 2013)

> ...My gut tells me it was a bad mix in the bottle.
> Good Luck
> 
> - Aj2
> ...


When you get air into a half full gallon jug of TB glue, it starts breaking down. I've always found a thin layer of clear liquid on the surface in the jug. I started shaking the jug to mix it up. Lately, I've been transferring the glue from a gallon jug to 16 oz. glue bottles. Since then, no more liquid breakdown of my glue…................. Jerry (in Tucson)


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## GlueNerd (Sep 7, 2017)

Hi LesD, Titebond II and other reactive (water-resistant) glues contain catalysts that help the glue achieve water-resistance as it dries at room temperatures. These catalysts react to release acetic acid from the PVA (polyvinyl acetate) glue. The acetic acid (same chemical in vinegar) can react with iron and other metals to form salts that have color. As an example, iron and acetic acid react to form a black salt (iron acetate which is actually a very dark purple). This can also be made by putting nails in vinegar. Other metals will create different colors. Copper will create green colored salts. Some woods naturally pick up metals from the soils they grow in (oak is notorious for picking up iron), in other cases, we have seen where sandpaper which has been used to grind metal has transferred the metal to sanded joints causing the discoloration. I have seen black, green and red (on a cherry wood sample) glue lines due to this phenomenon. If the issue is with the particular boards you are bonding, switching to polyurethane glue (Titebond Polyurethane Glue or Gorilla Glue) will eliminate the issue as it does not contain acetic acid. You can always call me to discuss further. Bob at Titebond 800-347-5483


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## LesD (Dec 8, 2020)

> Hmm, i use TB2 and poplar all the time and have never seen this. Maybe the poplar was sprayed with a chemical that is reacting?
> 
> - SMP


Same here. I had the same thought.


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## LesD (Dec 8, 2020)

> Hi LesD, Titebond II and other reactive (water-resistant) glues contain catalysts that help the glue achieve water-resistance as it dries at room temperatures. These catalysts react to release acetic acid from the PVA (polyvinyl acetate) glue. The acetic acid (same chemical in vinegar) can react with iron and other metals to form salts that have color. As an example, iron and acetic acid react to form a black salt (iron acetate which is actually a very dark purple). This can also be made by putting nails in vinegar. Other metals will create different colors. Copper will create green colored salts. Some woods naturally pick up metals from the soils they grow in (oak is notorious for picking up iron), in other cases, we have seen where sandpaper which has been used to grind metal has transferred the metal to sanded joints causing the discoloration. I have seen black, green and red (on a cherry wood sample) glue lines due to this phenomenon. If the issue is with the particular boards you are bonding, switching to polyurethane glue (Titebond Polyurethane Glue or Gorilla Glue) will eliminate the issue as it does not contain acetic acid. You can always call me to discuss further. Bob at Titebond 800-347-5483
> 
> - GlueNerd


I kind of figured it was something odd with this specific batch of wood. I continued along with the project. I used some polyurethane in some place and some quick and thick in some. No issues with either of these. Thanks for responding!


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## LesD (Dec 8, 2020)

> I have not had this experience. However, just a thought. You might try Elmer s Glue All. It is a similar glue but is white and dries clear. Try it on some scrap and see what it does. Please let us know how it works.
> 
> - bilyo


I did use Elmer's Glue all on some of the pieces this past weekend. No discoloration.


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## LesD (Dec 8, 2020)

Thank you to everyone who offered advice!
I continued work on the project this past weekend.
I used polyurethane glue on some tenons that were a bit more loose than I would have liked.
I used Titebond Quick and Thick on a panel that I had to remake in a hurry due to a mistake.
I also used some Elmer's Glue-All on some other pieces that were a tight fit and I wasn't in a hurry on.
All three of these worked and did not leave and staining or discoloration.
I appreciate it!!!


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## bmerrill (Mar 14, 2018)

Have used oxalic acid wash on popular to turn the green and iron streaks to an orange color. You may try this to achieve a more uniform color.


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## Newbie17 (Feb 20, 2017)

I've seen discoloration with poplar and titebond, but didn't care because I was painting it.


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## Eddie_T (Sep 23, 2012)

I like Weldbond and have been using it almost exclusively for over 40 years. I have used it as directed to make primer, glue glass, ceramic tile and wood. I buy it by the gallon and sometimes thin it little for the glue bottle.


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