# PayPal Yes or No?



## croessler (Jun 22, 2007)

While reading the form topic Lumberjocks Site Support- Lets Reinforce the Joint! it became apparent that there is or has been some less than stellar experiences with PayPal. Bill mildly rebuked me (rightfully so) for asking the question there .

*1. What exactly is wrong with using PayPal? *

*2. If not PayPal then what else?*

Let's try to keep this to real experiences you may have had; NOT others blogs across the web. I would like to hear your own first hand experiences not turn this into a hate fest. If I were to make the jump into woodworking full time how would I accept payments and such without a full blown business operation?

I.E. Credit card machine, etc..

I personally have had nothing but good experiences with the service…

Looking forward to your insight..


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## Russel (Aug 13, 2007)

I've used PayPal for quite a few years without incident. I appreciate the convenience and maintain a small balance there just for things like regular donations to LJ. I've read lots of articles about people being scammed by folks pretending to be PayPal, but I can't say I've seen much about PayPal itself. So, I too, don't fully understand the reluctance.


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## Paul_D (Feb 20, 2008)

I've used Paypal for quite a few years and haven't had any problems at all.


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## AdMarkGuy (Jan 1, 2008)

Russell, Is indeed correct - Paypal is not the issue. The Paypal or Bank Card "suspect" Emails ARE--Many are phish ( http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/P/phishing.html) transmittals that will direct you to a fraudulent site. You can always right click on an incoming email address and you can obtain routing and origins.

The scam is the typical phish emails that are sent appearing as paypal that "con" people. Paypal is owned by Ebay. If you use your checking account or credit card you still have a 30 -60 day window in which to dispute that bill with your institution. They will immediately credit your account while they investigate the details.

I have used paypal since its inception WITHOUT incident!

Caution must always be used when transmitting any personal information accross the net, even telephone.

A very good program to install on your computer is McAfee Security http://us.mcafee.com/root/package.asp?pkgid=273 - it is programed to detect phish emails as well as spam.

One last caution: NEVER buy anything or transmit personal information on a public computer (if you must clear the cookies before you exit) -

Also if you use a wireless card and a notebook and you are on a public WiFii--use firewall setting provided by your browser, windows. The McAfee program will send a popup to you if someone is trying to log on to your notebook on a public WiFi.

In my opinion, Paypal when used properly is as secure as the ATM machine you use in a lot less secure environment!


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## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

I've used PayPal since day one. No problems at all.


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## wiswood2 (Apr 12, 2008)

I use paypal all the time ,never had a problem
Chuck


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## alindobra (Oct 3, 2007)

Chris,

I'm using http://www.propay.com/

For 60$/year they let you process credit cards by phone (you can use the cell phone so you can go to art shows and accept payments). If you sell few items, this is perfect.

There is no problem with paypal but they charge more.

Alin


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## TexPenn (Apr 21, 2008)

A few years ago i swiched to paypal only in my ebay listings. Have never had a problem. Its a small fee on the seller, but your bank would charge you a monthly fee for you to be able to take credit cards. I would still take a check though if someone contacted me first, but would make them wait till it cleared. I have the PP debit card & as soon as the people pay, I can access the funds…. unless they pay with an echeck, then it takes a few days. 
Id say go with it. Just watch for the phishing emails or even phone calls. & dont hesitate to call paypal with questions & suspicions.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I use it for ebay purchases mostly and have had no problems.

I do recall being contacted once about a possible security issue, and of course I was immediately suspicious of a phishing scam. But customer service was excellent at providing me a way to contact them and go through all sorts of safeguards (and I forget the details) so that I could be confident everything was on the up-and-up.


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## sjdickey (Jan 1, 2008)

I use PayPal regularly, a few times a month at least and have never had a problem.


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## wiswood2 (Apr 12, 2008)

Patpal will never contact you by email about your account , if you get a email from them they want you to forward it to their fraud deptment.What ever you DO DONT GIVE ANY PERSONIAL INFO. TO WHO ever sends you that email ,send to pay pal
Chuck


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## ND2ELK (Jan 25, 2008)

Hi Chris

I use PayPal all the time. My wife and I have had an Ebay business for seven years and 80% of our sales are paid for thru PayPal. We average $1500.00 + in sales every month. Not once have we ever had a problem selling or buying thru PayPal. If you have a problem they have a phone number where they will call you back in less than one minute! AND they speak English where you can understand them!

Like Bill said the scams come from Emails, both PayPal and Ebay. If you have a concern call or Email them. Never open them!

God Bless


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## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

I have never had any problems with Paypal. But I don't use it very often. But my wife helps in keeping the mail system and UPS running with her Ebay purchases- all of which are done through Paypal.


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

I have used PayPal for years never a problem…very convenient as a matter of fact!


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## flink (Mar 19, 2008)

http://checkout.google.com

Paypal is too nosy and controlling.


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## Dadoo (Jun 23, 2007)

I prefer Paypal. The seller never sees your card info. If there's a dispute, it gets handled. Been using it for years without a hitch.


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## snowdog (Jul 1, 2007)

Paypal is fine with me also - been using it for over 5 years (probably a lot longer). never had a problem. Of course I never believe anything I get in email so I go to the paypal site directly.


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## RyanShervill (Dec 18, 2007)

I guess I'm the only one who has had a problem? Two actually…..

#1. I set up a PP accoubnt to augment my woodworking sales. Next thing I know they had siezed my account, frozen all transactions and I was told by SEVERAL people after hours on the phone long-distance to the US. I'm sorry sir, you have violated PayPals use policy and your accounts will be frozen for 6 months before your funds will be released. This is NON-APPEALABLE!!!! It took a letter from my Lawyer ($$$) to FINALLY get the violation that I did…NOONE would tell me. I built a custom gun stock for a customer for a Remington Benchrest rifle in 6mm. The subject line for payment said "Remmy 6mm". They *assumed* it was a gun purchase, and PayPal are completely anti-gun. I calmly informed them that the transaction in question was for a chunk of walnut, not a gun. Three weeks and several hundred dollars later, my account was finally unfrozen.
They could have avoided the whole issue by actually treating me like a valued customer and just ASKING. Instead they instantly made things impossible to deal with…and treated me like a piece of garbage non-stop.

#2. Sold a videogame system for a friend without an ebay account last Xmas. The unit sold for 800.00, I recieved the funds through PayPal, Picked up the game, packaged it and shipped it for my neighbour. I(t was sent tracked and insured. Three weeks later PayPal backcharged my account for the full 800 stating "Item not recieved". Again, no contact from them before acting, just took the money. Get this: I have CONFIRMED delivery of the package, and PayPal STILL wouldn't reverse the charge. I'm not kidding: No matter what I sent them, they still said the backcharge is due to "item not recieved" and was non-reversable.

The guy who boght the game niow has the game, AND his 800 bucks. My neighbour has HIS 800.00 , I am out 1600.00 (PLUS they charged me the percentage for the priveledge of using their service!)

I had 26.00 left in my PP account, I just trnsferred it to Martin…NEVER again!


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## croessler (Jun 22, 2007)

It's this kind of first hand information I am looking for; good or bad. You guy's have helped a lot of people make informed decisions based on first hand information on many many different subjects.

Thanks Ryan!

and thanks everyone else!


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## tenontim (Feb 24, 2008)

I use Paypal for my business and for purchasing on the web quite a bit. I won't bid on anything on Ebay that doesn't accept it. It cost me 3% when I use it for my business. I don't have to pay for a credit card machine each month, I just send the customer an email via PayPal and they pay them. I don't have to mess with their credit card info and I think a lot of people feel more comfortable with that. I've never had a problem with them and the one time that I didn't get something I purchased on Ebay, they refunded my money.


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## brunob (Dec 26, 2006)

I vote Paypal. Used it for years. Hundreds of transactions - not a single hitch.


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## toyguy (Nov 23, 2007)

I too have had a problem with Pay pal…just once, and that was it for me.

A few years back now I ordered an item from a web site that used Paypal. I never received the item. When I inquired about my problem I was told that according to records, I did receive my item. As it was not a great deal of money, I just took it on the chin and figured it was a lesson learned.

I won't use it…..maybe I'm wrong…but once bit as they say…


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## laflaone (Apr 28, 2008)

I have used Paypal for a number of years, and never had a problem. I am seeing more and more webstores starting to offer Paypal as an alternative to credit cards.

I have my Paypal account set up to automatically take the purchase amount directly from my bank checking account. This way I don't have to worry about maintaining a balance in Paypal.


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## rikkor (Oct 17, 2007)

I have used paypal since 2005 without any problem.


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## grumpycarp (Feb 23, 2008)

I have used P.P for a couple of years and for the most part it was good. If you ever have a problem however . . . good luck. It is nearly impossible to get someone in this country (or at all) to speak to you. I use it for Ebay and small transactions like magazine subscriptions, website donations and the like but I sure wouldn't trust them with my IRA . . .


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## daveintexas (Oct 15, 2007)

I have used Paypal for both my buisiness and ebay.
I ask for a 50 percent deposit on all orders, and I tell the clients that all payments are protected thru PP. It really helps sell the deal. Plus they get to use their credit card if they like.
I have one of their paypal credit cards that gives me 1 percent back on purchases. So that cuts the fee to 2 %.
One other advantage is I can go online and check all my buisiness transactions.

Only problem I have ever had is when I bought some hardware from McFelleys and they billed me twice. It took about 3 days, but it was corrected.

HTH
Dave


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## WIwoodworker (Apr 10, 2008)

I use paypal with no problems. I do know a person who had their account frozen. Not sure of the reason but it did happen and was difficult for him to resolve.


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## wooddon (Jul 11, 2007)

I have never had a problem with PayPal. I have had bogus messages saying it was PayPal requiesting I update my account. Forward anything like this to [email protected] They will not request this info.


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## pinkfish (May 7, 2008)

The buying saying the item wasn't received and the seller being stuck with the bill is apparently a fairly common problem with paypal. I have heard of this happening on more than one occasion. If you were both in the US you could sue the person who bought the game directly, outside of the country it becomes more difficult. Paypal seem to err on the side of the buyer, which is possibly good, but difficult for sellers to deal with.


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## Schummie (Feb 3, 2008)

I use paypal since the beginning without any problem. I love it, simple and trustful.

Schummie.


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## CaptnA (Dec 17, 2007)

my PayPal issue is along the lines of Don's 
[email protected] and of course the scammers have [email protected] I forwarded something to spook and actually got a reply I also forwarded to spoof and got almost the identical reply not smart enough to tell the difference  
my question stems from how can anything at 
XXX @paypal.com NOT be connected with paypal.com?
I quit using them and won't be back. Its made me do without a few times but I'm flexible enough to manage - so far lol.
I don't know enough about computers/ net/web stuff


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## ItsMike (May 22, 2008)

I've used paypal for years and have only had 1 problem and it was part my fault. I recieved payment for a item but it was from a unconfirmed country, so there was no seller protection. It was only $30.00 so i went ahead and sent the item. A month later the funds were seized stating the ebay/paypal user didnt purchase the item. their account was supposidly hacked.. I've still sent alot of merchandise worth thousands of dollars to unconfirmed address in other countrys and never had any other problems. But i for sure would not send any 1 item worth alot of $$ to a unconfirmed add or country. Anything over max $100.00 would have to have seller protection form me.. Paypal and Ebay have allowed me to make alot of extra $$ so i cant complain about price or service, i think they are pretty handy!!


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## wooddon (Jul 11, 2007)

I have never had aproblem with PayPal. If you get a email requesting you to fix your account forward the email to [email protected] they will respond mand investigate.


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## tenontim (Feb 24, 2008)

One clue that the emails that Don is referring to, PayPal will always use your name. All of the illegitimate Paypal emails that I've ever gotten address you as "Dear PayPal valued account holder". If you actually think you have a problem with your account, you should just log on via the regular paypal.com address and check your account. If there's a problem, it will have a message there.


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## JohnGray (Oct 6, 2007)

YEARS and YEARS with NO PROBLEMS.


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## Taigert (Nov 20, 2007)

After reading some of the horror stories I'm not sure if I could feel safe dealing with Pay-Pal. I was concidering setting up an account, seen as I am in the beginning stages of putting together a web site. What does Pay-Pal do to protect the seller, against people committing fraud against the seller? Or if they have a question as to what it was that has been sold, if it refers to a 9mm bit, that could be mistaken to be for a 9mm gun??
If I can prove my shipment was signed for as rec'd that should offer me some protection? But from the sounds of it that is not the case. 
I would freak if they just got into my bank account without going through due process. There are always two sides to every storey, it's sounds like they only listen to one side and then take heavy handed action.


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## ItsMike (May 22, 2008)

There is seller protection. And they let you know if there isnt any protection and for what reason. Like not a verified member, not a verified country your shipping to ect. You always have the option to not sell to unverified customers and as long as you follow the rules like send only to their verified address your money is protected. Its when you take the chance that there is a risk and they make sure you know that before you send the package or accept payment..


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## Allison (Dec 31, 2007)

I have one question? How much are you charged for setting up an account so that you can receive money for something someone purchased from you. Is it yearly, monthly, or what? OOPS I guess that was 4 questions!!!
I too have been interested in learning more about PayPal.
PEACE!!!
Allison


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## ItsMike (May 22, 2008)

it depends on the account you set up, if it a personal account then you get free on some types payments. If its a buisness account its a % per payment deducted from the payment. there isnt a setup, monthly or anually charge and it doesnt cost anything to purchase things using paypal.


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## Yettiman (Mar 2, 2008)

I've used PayPal for quite a few years and no probs, just the reverse. I had a problem with an item I had brought on eBay, it arrived broken. Complained …. well to cut a long story short I was told 'get lost' complained to PayPal, sent a copy of my solicitors letter that I had written to the seller, and PayPal paid me back by return.

Very Happy


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## BigCM (Mar 13, 2008)

I've used Paypal for two small ($20>) purchases on eBay with no problem. If I was to buy/sell anything else, I would definitely use Paypal! I, for one, would never use anything else when dealing on the internet, and I am sure many others feel the same way.


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## lechevaldebois (Feb 13, 2008)

I use Paypal all the time for buying and selling stuff on Ebay (mostly old handplanes and exotic burl veneers). Never had any problem. I find it quite convenient actually. They charge 3% to the seller, nothing to the buyer. Sellers sometimes can ask for 3% extra to buyers who wanna use Paypal. I trusted Paypal with an international (US-Canada) transaction of approx. 1700$ recently (see the ebony log for sale thread in this Forum). Again, no problem. I frequently receive phishing emails but they go directly to the trash can.


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## dsb1829 (Jun 20, 2008)

Bringing back an old one…

I have used Paypal for years. I have been bitten twice.

Incident #1:
I paid for an item. The seller pocketed the cash. It was outside of e-bay, so no help there. Since I had transfered directly from checking I couldn't reverse charges via my bank (I know, time for a new bank then). Since the seller had removed the funds from paypal's reach they couldn't get it back. After a couple of weeks I get a form letter stating that they have investigated the issue and are basically not going to do anything about it. Now I am all for principle, but throwing good money after bad wasn't in the cards so I sucked it up and got smarter for the incident.

Incident #2:
I had a buyer start a claim against me due to USPS losing a package for a couple of weeks. Despite the fact that USPS gives something like 3 weeks before a lost item can even be filed Paypal locked my account and transfered funds from my checking to cover the item refund. Color me surprised. I don't remember telling paypal they could auto deduct from my personal checking account. Must be in the fine print. In the end the package did arrive and all was set well, but again I got smarter for the abuse.

I still use paypal. It is accepted all over the net. Buyers on ebay like it and will often bid more for the convenience of it. Heck, I have had to do the money order thing recently and in retrospect I would pay $5 extra not to have to wait in a line on my lunch break to get a MO. It is quicker too. Buyer gets money to seller same day, so the item can ship faster. A money order transaction on e-bay from close to the time I get an item is 2-3 weeks. With paypal I typically get items in 3-7 days.

Some smarts from my experiences:
- Pay with a CC for anything over about $50 (notice paypal actually has a popup that tries to talk you out of this, wonder why). Take up any dispute with your CC. Note, paypal may cancel your account if you reverse a charge. I can live with that.
- Don't connect paypal to your primary checking account, get a basic free checking and keep it fairly empty
- As a seller clear out your paypal account and checking immediately. If a buyer tries to pull anything funny it will be up to paypal to remedy. Paypal can't take what it can't reach. About the only thing paypal can do is cutoff your account in this instance. I would take excile from paypal before sucking up a $1600 loss. They could take you to court, but in the instance of confirmed delivery they would have no leg to stand on.
- Protect yourself, paypal isn't going to do it for you.
- Only login to paypal by going to their site, never follow a link in an email.
- Be smart. In ebay check feedback ratings. Keep your BS detector on at all times. If it smells fishy don't get involved.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Good advice, Doug.

I have used PayPal for a long time as a buyer. Things generally go smoothly, but mishaps can be a son-of-a-gun to clear up. My recent skirmish with them all came about because a seller tried to issue me a refund for miscalculated shipping charges. He mistakenly marked it as a payment instead of a refund, and that set off all sorts of bells and whistles as PayPay apparently thought someone was trying to cheat them out of their slice of the pie. The only way I could finally get it settled was to go ahead and give them my checking account info, which I had tried to avoid.

I'm sure the big push by PayPal to discourage credit card use is to avoid the fees they have to pay the credit card companies. Fewer credit card payments = more $$$ in their pockets.


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## closetguy (Sep 29, 2007)

You really have to understand what Papal is. They are not a credit card company, but a third party processor which fronts a merchant account with one or more credit card processors. The advantages to the small, home-based business is no monthly fees and no qualifing. You just sign up and start using it. Now, imagine the 100's of thousands of transactions that are being processed through Paypal each day. If just 1/2 percent were fraud, it would cost them a lot of money real quick. And the charge reversals are initiated by the buyer, which are taken back from Paypal by their credit card processor. Paypal will generally always side with the buyer. The quickest way to get a handle on it, in their eyes, is to freeze the account and sort though it later. Unfortunately, I think that they have gotten so big that it makes it difficult for them to give appropriate attention to the seller. I have used Paypal on my Esty and other web site accounts with shopping carts all year with no problem. A lot of people have paypal accounts and like to pay through their account. I like being able to send email envoices and have them paid on line.

A lot of crafters are starting to use Propay for their craft shows and I have heard virtually no controversy with Propay. You pay one yearly fee, 39.95 - 59.95 depending on the plan you choose. Then all you do is call the card info in on the phone or enter it on their web page. Paypal charges $30 per month for this service. Propay does not have a shopping cart interface so it can't be used with web site selling using a shopping cart.

There are a lot of advantages to a direct merchant account. The only reason most small operations (whether they are a real business or not) don't get one is that you have to apply with a credit application and there are monthly fees envolved. In most cases you also have to provide a copy of your tax resale and business license certificate. If you only sell a few items a year it doesn't make sense. However, you can get a rate of around 1.5% versus 3% or more for Paypal and Propay. If a buyer tries to reverse charges, they don't freeze your account and will give the seller the opportunity to provide documentation to dispute the buyer dispute. Monthly fees are very low, and in some cases can be had for free if you work a deal through your local bank. I have found that if you have a long (good) history with your local bank, you can sometimes get some real good deals for these tyoe of services if you are a real business. If you fly under the radar, then Propay or Paypal is a good way to go.

Hope this helps!


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