# Lumberyard board-foot calculation - is this typical?



## JeffeVerde (Jan 11, 2011)

I've always felt like I was getting overcharged by my local hardwood yard, but never spent too much thought on it, figuring "it is what it is". But when my last order ran almost 150% of what I'd guess-timated, I dug into their pricing, and here's what I came up with.

-Their lumber is all S2S-SLR1E (straight-lined one edge). 
-The "raw" edge is ALWAYS tapered, typically 1-2" across a 10-12' board. 
-They measure the board at it's largest width, regardless of taper
-They round up to the next full inch, regardless of how small a fraction over

Here's an example- An 8' x 4/4×6" piece - nominally 4 board feet. The board I got was 8'-1"-ish (they don't charge for the fractional over in length), with width tapering from 7-1/4" to 6-1/4". The guy slapped his board-foot scale on the board, and said "8 inches by 8 feet-- 5-1/3 board feet". Then they add 10% for straight-lining, making it 5.867 board feet??!

Is this kind of heavy-thumbed measuring typical, or are these guys really over the line? My only other local supplier is a commercial lumber yard that only carries a small selection of hardwoods (poplar, red & white oak, maybe some maple). They're about 30% more per board foot-but it's all S4S, and a 6" wide board is charged at 1/2 a board foot per lineal foot-which I've just realized is actually cheaper when you figure in the measuring shenanigans the other shop does. There's a really large hardwood lumber yard about an hour away, but I don't know if I should expect the same fuzzy measuring as my current supplier.


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## crashn (Aug 26, 2011)

sounds a bit extreme to me. An average of the boards width sounds more appropriate. And if they only sell SLR1E, then why are they charging for it? I say its worth the drive just to see if they are more straight about it. If they are not, you have only lost a couple hour drive.


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## ClintSearl (Dec 8, 2011)

Unfortunately, when the need is only for enough wood for a project, let's say 10-15 boards, and availability is limited, the customer has little say over the price. I live within a couple hours of at least a dozen sources of domestic and exotic woods, so I decide where to shop on more than just price and how the seller calculates board feet. If there's no alternative for the amount and quality of what you want, I'd say as you first said: "it is what it is." I've been doing some work where there's only one source within a hundred miles, and that's the attitude I've adopted.


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## Lifesaver2000 (Nov 17, 2009)

This may be kind of "out there" but you might consider a complaint to your state's equivalent of a department of weights and measures. This type of thing might vary by state, and I can't say I even know what the rules for hardwood sales are here in Arkansas. What I do know though is that there are rules here for how firewood is measured and sold, and they have even had TV ads in the fall and winter at times to inform people about how it is supposed to be measured/sold, and they do encourage complaints if sellers aren't doing it correctly.

Seems to me, if they are that picky about firewood, there is at least a chance that some states might take up the cause of making sure a hardwood dealer is being honest in their measurements.

Another thing to consider though is that if the dealer is forced to change how they measure, they could easily just up the price per BF to make up the difference.


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## bruc101 (Sep 13, 2008)

Most hardwood lumber company's also take a percentage of the total brd ft off for shrinkage.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

May not seem fair but it seems a fairly common practice. I figure I am purchasing anything from alder/cherry at 1.40/1.50 hr and calico hickory and nice looking walnut for 2.25/2.75, well the alternative would be to buy fas and pay 4 times what I currently pay. I have been able to somehow utilize all our boards down to just tossing out maybe a small sliver from all my boards so basically nothing of my boards go to waste. I figure I am getting the better end of the deal in the end. I could be paying HD prices


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## Sawdust4Blood (Feb 16, 2010)

I guess I am lucky because my local lumber supplier always comes up with numbers that are real close to what I calculate for a stick of lumber. In some markets you don't have a lot of choice about who you go to, but I am not shy about telling vendors who are using the "heavy thumb" that I will not be back if they are fudging the numbers and that I will tell every woodworker that will listen to me me that they are a rip-off joint that is not to be trusted.

I also disagree with the practice of adding a percentage for shrinkage or anything else. I understand that there is a material loss in the milling and storage process; however, that should be factored into their price/bf. Adding a markup on top of their advertised price for lumber is the same BS as airlines advertising a low price then doubling it with fees.

I may not change their behavior but I certainly won't reward it.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

In my opinion, you're getting screwed. Somewhere they need to balance their equation. There are formulas for figuring the taper as well. When calculating board feet in a tree, you never measure at the base. I would check other suppliers if possible.


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

-They round up to the next full inch, regardless of how small a fraction over

That's just being greedy.

Everyone I go to to rounds down below 1/2" and rounds up over the 1/2".

If you think you're getting screwed with your S2S, why not buy rough and plane it yourself.


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

It seems excessive. Shrinkage is their problem, not yours. You are buying the board in front of you, not as it stood in the forrest. Regardless, if you don't like the prices, you go elsewhere, but you let them know why. Prices should be marked on the boards. I could care less how they 'calculate' their prices, I just want to know what they are asking per board foot. Shrinkage sminkage, taper smaper. They are trying to pull the wool over their customer's eyes.


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## huff (May 28, 2009)

I used to order from a number of the larger Hardwood suppliers because when I looked at their price list, their price per board ft. seemed lower then some of their competition. Once I questioned how they came up with the total board ft. that I was charged for versus what the actual board ft. I received, I realized they added all kinds of little charges on, like shrinkage, the width of the board before it was straight lined, etc. Even if I ordered my lumber rough sawn, they added their shrinkage. I finally found a hardwood supplier that figured their lumber by what you actually received and even though their price seemed higher per board foot, I found out they where very competitive with their pricing, in fact, most of the time they were actually cheaper then the big suppliers. Get to know your hardwood suppliers and shop around. I also found even though we are suppose to have a grading system for lumber, I've seen some huge differences from one mill to another.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

I used to go to a hardwood supplier who stapled a little tag to the end-grain of each board, indicating the calculated board-footage, and the price. I could never really pick a board from a pile without knowing beforehand what the price was. It would be like buying a car without knowing what it was going to cost…until you've already committted yourself to it.


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## Richforever (Mar 19, 2008)

Seems like they are intimidating their customers and rounding up when they should not. Buy elsewhere.

If they can't be honest with customers, they will be going out of business anyhow.


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## hhhopks (Nov 22, 2011)

The guys that I have purchased lumber from (walnut, oak…...etc) seem to be on the generous side. They more or less take what is perceived as the usable dimension and basically round down to the nearest inch. Sounds like your dealer may be low on board ft but he makes it up on the board ft calculation.


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## ssnvet (Jan 10, 2012)

My understanding is that you pay for the volume of the board as it is rough cut off of the saw mill….

That means that when buying S4S, you pay for the volume of wood b4 it goes through the 4 sided planer.

So an S4S board that is 2×6x12' will be billed as 12 BF of lumber, even though the board actually measures 1-1/2" x 5-1/2" x 12'. That's why they call it 2×6 nom. You pay for the volume of chips coming out of the planer, and you pay for the labor to plane the board.

We buy our rough hardwood green, so I don't see the 10% "shrinkage" factor….. but if they're selling the board as KD, it makes sense that you would pay for the size of the board off of the rough cut mill, before it was kiln dried, as well as the labor and energy cost of operating the kiln.

Note that on the lumber rule, the scale is graduated to the nearest 1/2 BF.

You could always ask the guy in a non-confrontational way…. "can you show me how you determing the BF"

If you don't like his answer, be thankful that you live in a free country and have the liberty to vote with your feet.

If it's any consolation, I doubt these guys are getting rich selling lumber.

But then again, if there are no lumber yards in your area, it's likely that they all went under.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

It sounds like they are really skewing things in their favor.

I am fortunate that there are many lumberyard choices in my area. If anything, I come out ahead.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

I don't think our suppliers add in for shrinkage or any other fees. Our people are pretty straight forward in measuring actual BF so I feel good about the calculations I am given. I do know if I am given a 6" board at the widest portion but only 5 1/4" at the ends, I am being charged for 6" wide. Since only a tiny fraction of any of our wood, typically a 3/4" or 1/2" slice/cut off goes to the burn pile so I feel we are getting a very good deal.

One thing I think of is buying 2X4 studs, I am fairly certain we don't get 2" by 4", etc…

In the end if you are getting a good price compared to the local market, then buy, if the dealer is higher then the local market or is gouging, then move onto the next hardwood dealer.

I did have a hardwoods dealer who hired lousy bean counters and since I knew the fellas could not count, I would always count for them and they would just go off of my numbers. Then I just got tired of dealing with always having to check their bean counters and moved on to the next hardwoods dealer.


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## mtenterprises (Jan 10, 2011)

Well just to a a bit of good to the bad story when I have gone to the couple saw mills I deal with they just keep loading up my truck and keep telling me thats not enough yet. And they keep piling it on the price is good I'm smiling and they are smiling so I guess all is ok. I guess the just want me to keep coming back.
MIKE
And yes I do know how to calculate board feet.


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## barlow (Feb 28, 2008)

Some of the things they are doing are normal in the industry and some are not, I do only some retail, but mainly wholesale and could never get away with that with some volume customers. When scaling/and or grading a tapered board they measure is supposed to be taking halfway between the widest and narrowest point. As for them adding on for the SL1E of course the will that is a value added product then not just hit and missed S2S random width lumber that they need to pay for the labor to process it plus the board footage lost through the straight line which on average is 7-10% depending on the operator and the incoming materials straightness. You are also paying for without knowing it for the 7% lost at the dry kiln in shrinkage which gets passed down from customer to customer to the final end user. The rounding up no matter the fraction is just wrong as renners said down for anything under a half, up for anything over.


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## Kookaburra (Apr 23, 2012)

So, I can see the reasons why finished lumber is more expensive to process than raw, but isn't that why the price is higher? Isn't the higher price supposed to account for the shrinkage, the labor, the lost sawdust, etc? It would be one thing if the price per BF is the same - then add-ons would make sense, but it is usually significantly higher.

It sounds like they are taking a note from the airlines and auto repair shops. I just got hit with a $10 9/11 fee on an airline ticket. And I HATE it when I take my car in for an oil change and I get assessed a $12 "shop materials charge." Why can't companies just price things fairly and inclusive of all add-ons? As a consumer it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

/end rant


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