# Need help with table assembly without wobble



## Oldhomestead (Jul 12, 2016)

I am very new to making furniture and have had a lot of good luck but currently very frustrated. I make a lot of farm tables, coffee tables, etc. most of the wood I use is new from Home Depot. I double measure every piece and normally start with the frame. Pocket hole the sides into 4×4s which are the legs. Once the frame is together everything is great. In regards to the table top I have tried a few things. Attaching board by board, pocket hole all of the boards together then attach to the frame using pocket holes on the inside of the frame. No matter what I do or how many different ways I do it the table is always offset when done. Sometimes a little but mostly a lot. I've tried screwing in the corners first all the way to not tightening everything all the way until the end and then it's symmetric areas I'm doing. Please give me all the info y'all can on how I can fix whatever I'm doing or the best way to correct this. Thanks!


----------



## GR8HUNTER (Jun 13, 2016)

so what your saying is …....... just the top is uneven ? or is it the leg assembly ?


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

You should have a level assembly platform. For big assemblies
I use carefully shimmed and leveled milk crates. Floors in
homes are seldom flat anyway.

Your clamping and joinery habits can introduce twist,
as well as sloppy milling. Get more picky about what is 
flat and straight. I use a 78" box level a great deal in
assessing this. I don't use winding sticks a lot because
my eye is pretty accurate by now, but I'd be lost without
that 78" straightedge level.

Once your 4-leg assemblies are glued and have the
full weight on them, you can identify the one long
leg and carefully scribe it using a knife and spacer
all 'round. Then using a razor sharp chisel, make
cuts all around. Then I use a dozuki to cut into the
corners using the chisel "wall" to guide the saw. Then
connect the flats and finally you have a nice even
kerf all around and you can part off the middle.

The resulting flat on the bottom of the leg will be
pretty clean. A little chisel/rasp work and/or some
sanding with 50 grit sanding belt section glued to a
flat board.

Done.


----------



## Oldhomestead (Jul 12, 2016)

Thanks for the info! Everything is straight as level enough befor I add the top on. I think it is the twisting that you mentioned which is going wrong. Is it bc I'm tightening too much too quick or can that happen if my pocket holes aren't straight. I believe that they are but some could be off.


----------



## Oldhomestead (Jul 12, 2016)

Also gr8' the legs and table top are all good to go. Problems arise when I add the top to the framw


----------



## JBrow (Nov 18, 2015)

Oldhomestead,

It is hard for me to say why your tables rock after attaching the top. But it suggests to me that when the top is attached, the top is twisting the table base and thus lifting one or more of the legs up off the floor.

If the legs are all the same length and straight and perpendicular to the apron; the apron pieces connecting the legs are all attached dead flush with the top of the legs, the apron is not angled relative to the legs, and the top edge of the apron pieces is straight; and the lower surface of the table top is dead flat, then it seems to me the table will set on the floor without rocking after attaching the top. Unless I have missed something, a rocking table suggests one or more of these conditions are missing; probably the lower face of the top is not dead flat.

Since you are using home center lumber, I assume with no further milling, this could be one source of the problem. While home center furniture-grade lumber may have been straight and flat when it left the mill, it can take on subtle a bow or twist while waiting to be bought. These bows and twists are difficult to eliminate without milling and can result in a top that is not dead flat or an apron that is not straight on the top edge along its length.

It sounds as if you are attaching the top to the apron with pocket screws. Perhaps these are installed in such a way to allow the top to expand and contract. If not, then the top may contract over time which could cause the table top to crack. If a table legs set on the floor without rocking when built but the top is not allowed to expand and contract, over time expansion or contraction might cause the table to begin rocking. While not allowing for the top to move with seasonal changes can become a problem, I doubt it is the source of your rocking table problem.


----------



## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Only attach the top in two places, one each end at the center.
Then all other connections need to be designed to allow movement.


----------



## CaptainSkully (Aug 28, 2008)

Make sure the boards that you're using for the top have alternating growth rings so the cupping cancels out. One is bark side up and the next is bark side down, etc. One you have the table assembled, you can set the offending leg(s) on a sheet of sandpaper and slowly move the table/sand the leg until the table stops rocking.


----------



## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

If your using box store lumber, I suggest you build and finish it, then cut off the bottom of what ever leg needs to be taken off to make it sit flat without rocking. I doubt there is anything you are going to do with wet lumber to keep it from twisting.
Got any pictures of what your building?


----------



## jwmalone (Jun 23, 2016)

Box store lumber, box store combo squares both have caused me more problems than I care to admit. I mill that stuff with the most precision I can. Band saw, table saw then hand plane and a shooting board. Also let that stuff dry out, I put in the loft of the shop for at least a few weeks hot and dry up there . When you're able, find a good dealer of furniture grade wood and invest in some damn good layout tools, My skill level increased dramatically when I done those two things (?). If this doesn't help then you have probably not drank enough beer. Drink until there are three layout lines then cut the one in the middle . All advice previously given is great as well.


----------



## Kirk650 (May 8, 2016)

You can do everything right (almost) and still have a small problem with the table being a small bit out of square. I mark the long leg (legs) and use a random orbit sander to take a little wood off the ends.


----------



## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

I do have that rocking problem with some of my table/bench projects(not on every project but sometimes it does happen,don't know exactly why ),I remedy the rocking by sticking felt pads on the bottom of the legs,these pads are of different thicknesses so I strategically put them on in such a way so the shorter legs get the thicker pads.


----------



## jwmalone (Jun 23, 2016)

you can also use adjustable feet, get the right ones and you never notice them. ( but its cheating) But it doesn't answer the question as to why. In my case it usually can be attributed to something I did not pay close enough attention to


----------



## jonmakesthings (Feb 28, 2016)

I would say the issue is with using wood from a home center. It's virtually never dry enough to not twist after you get it home. I had the same thing happen to me with my table, using Doug fir. After gluing and breadboarding the top completely flat, it twisted while I built the base. In my case it wasn't too bad and I just levelled the table after final assembly


----------



## Plain (Jun 27, 2016)

FYI pocket holes are not the best way to join wood and is very inappropriate to attach the table top to the apron. It is also not a good idea to attach board to board with pocketholes. Could be a reason of your misalignment too.


----------



## Oldhomestead (Jul 12, 2016)

Plain, so what do you suggest other than pocket holes?


----------



## Aidan1211 (Feb 20, 2016)

The top has to be flat or the base will follow it and cause wobble. Thats my experience.


----------



## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Sorry for the length of this no short way to explain it.

You have a few shortcomings in your technique but IMO the biggest problem you have is the lumber. Especially if you're using construction lumber like SYP, the moisture content will be very high. The wood needs to be stickered and let acclimate for at least a month before using. You can buy a moisture meter or simply weigh the boards weekly. Write the weight down on the board when its stabilized its ready. Could take months. I think you would do better using the spruce or whitewood.

You can also use wide boards and rip out the center. I think Jay Bates has a few examples of projects doing this on YouTube.

Few things to think about:

Are the edges jointed square? If so, you should get a flat glue up. If edges are not square, then when clamps are applied they will tend to slide. There are several ways to align boards such as biscuits, dowels, or a spline. Don't worry about a perfect glue up you will only frustrate yourself. Get it as close as you can and use a hand plane to even out the glue joints. If you don't have a hand plan use a belt sander (can't believe I said that….).

Second, pocket screws are part of your problem here. Unless they boards are clamped flush a pocket screw tends to pull one board and offset them. IMO you should forgo the pocket screws and glue it up the traditional way. If you don't have any clamps, a ratchet tie down strap or a wedge system will work. Use cauls to hold the boards flat when gluing. Biscuits would be your best bet and you can also use them to cut slots in the apron to fasten the top with clips. You can pick up a used one pretty cheap.

C, how you attach the top is critical. You must do it in a way that allows the top to move. If you don't a nice flat top will turn into a cupped mess. There are various techniques and clips such as figure 8 clips for this.

Finally, there are much better joinery methods for your application. I recommend checking out various joinery techniques & move away from pocket holes.


----------

