# Speed change not working in Mastercraft wood lathe (HF/Jet clone)



## CharlieBrady (May 27, 2020)

I recently bought a rusty old Mastercraft lathe. It's essentially the same lathe as JWL 1236 or HF 34706. It's stuck on slow speed, because the spindle inner pulley half doesn't move when the shifting lever bracket attempts to push or pull it. I believe I need to get that pully/bracket assembly disassembled, and clean and burnish the spindle.

From reading I've done I need to be gentle with the pulleys. I think the first thing that I need to do is to remove the outside pulley half, so I can get some gentle push and pull force on the inside pulley half. I've met another problem in trying to remove the outside pulley half. I've removed the snap ring and one of the set screws. The second set screw has the hex socket rounded off and I cannot get purchase to turn it. I tried an EZ out, but that just pulled some metal filings off the edge of the socket.

Do I need to take the headstock/engine assembly to a machinist and have the set screw drilled out?

Assuming that I do get that outside pulley half off, do folks have other suggestions as to how to get some movement back on that spindle shaft? I know that a gear puller will just give me a broken pulley.

If I need to replace the pulley, I found that Grizzly have one available. However even that won't be useful until I get the original removed.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

If a good lube doesn't get things moving, then you are probably going to have to get that set screw out. Which kind of 'ez-out' did you use? The older style that looks like a twist drill or the newer type? I've had limited success with the older style, but the newer ones really bite in pretty well. But since you say it's already rounded out, you have a perfect pilot hole so it should be an easy one to drill out by yourself!

Cheers,
Brad


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

Lube the screws with Kroil and rap 'em once lightly to open up a micro gap. Give the Kroil 10 min or so to work its magic and try again.









Kroil, the oil that creeps.

The stripped setscrews will likely need a drill out (use the pilot bit for the set screw thread size).

When in doubt, force it. If it breaks, it needed replacement anyway. - US Army maintenance saying


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## CharlieBrady (May 27, 2020)

Thanks for the advice folks. I got impatient and impetuous and tried to drill a pilot hole without using a drill guide. I didn't manage to get it loose, and I hope that I haven't damaged the thread now.

I am putting together a plan B. I can try using a single speed lathe for a while. Meanwhile I am investigating treadmill motor upgrades for that lathe. Most of the criticisms of that lathe are of the motor being underpowered, and of the reeves drive mechanism being unreliable and having too high a minimum speed. Using a treadmill motor with DC speed control looks a good option But I might still need to get that set screw out and the pulley off. Eventually.


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## CharlieBrady (May 27, 2020)

Plan B has progressed. I'm going to look at a treadmill tomorrow. I think it has a 2.65 HP motor with flywheel, and motor controller circuit. I'm very open to suggestions as to what pulley/belt combination will best marry the treadmill motor to the lathe.

Thanks all.


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## Nubsnstubs (Aug 30, 2013)

What is the high and low RPM on the motor? I converted a delta 1360 lathe back about 10 years ago to use a TM motor. At the beginning, the lathe had the regular 4 step pulley, but the TM motor had the J type pulley. After getting the motor to the position where the regular V belt had the right tension, I made that my motor position and made a bracket that would stabilize it. I wanted to see if it was right, so started it. To my surprise, the V belt with the J pulley on the TM motor worked flawlessly. I used it like that for a few weeks until I had the chance to make my own J pulley.

In conclusion, you don't really need to use any special belt if the one you have fits. What you need to concern yourself with is whether the TM motor has the same sized arbor as the motor pulley you are going to discard. ............ Jerry (in Tucson)


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## CharlieBrady (May 27, 2020)

There's good news and bad news on the spindle reeves pulley. I was able to remove the outer half of that pulley. It seems the faulty set-screw wasn't functioning anyway, and I was able to work the pulley half loose. It will now be easier to properly drill out and remove the set-screw, and I have better access to the other half pulley. However it is still locked solid to the shaft.

I'm still keen on plan B. I'm quite interested in Nubnstubs' ideas. If I've understood, the J pulley on the TM motor might be usable with a V belt. If so, I don't need to remove the standard pulley/shifting lever bracket from the spindle shaft. I can re-assemble it, and leave as is/was. No need for any new pulleys. That's be cool!

The current V belt is slightly shredded, so I need a new one. But the existing one is good enough for some testing.

To answer the question, I don't know the numbers, but I've seen posts suggesting those motors can spin up to 6000 rpm. I guess the minimum rpm is zero.

Jerry, how and why did you make a J pulley, and where did you put it? I am guessing that you wanted to use the poly-v belt rather than V belt, and preferred to replace your lathe spindle pulley rather than change the pulley on the TM motor. Correct?

I don't understand your point about the size of the motor arbor. I am not planning to move the reeve system two piece pulley from the original AC motor to the DC TM motor.

I understand that the TM motor arbor is threaded 1/2" 13 TPI Left thread. And it's easy to remove the flywheel if you can drive the motor in reverse:






And I've just confirmed that it is easy to remove the flywheel with vicegrips on the other end of the motor shaft.

So my choices now are (easiest listed first):

1. Straight motor swap, using J pulley with the V belt. Unknown durability.

2. Re-machine the flywheel plus J pulley somehow to replace the pulley with a standard V belt pulley.

3. Somehow get the reeves system pulley off the lathe spindle and replace it with a J pulley.


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## Nubsnstubs (Aug 30, 2013)

> I m still keen on plan B. I m quite interested in Nubnstubs ideas. If I ve understood, the J pulley on the TM motor might be usable with a V belt. If so, I don t need to remove the standard pulley/shifting lever bracket from the spindle shaft. I can re-assemble it, and leave as is/was. No need for any new pulleys. That s be cool!
> 
> To answer the question, I don t know the numbers, but I ve seen posts suggesting those motors can spin up to 6000 rpm. I guess the minimum rpm is zero.
> 
> ...


Charley, don't remove the flywheel. It helps a lot. Check out the pictures below.

When I first converted my lathe from step pulley speeds to electronically variable, the lathe would only go to the highest speed that that V groove on the spindle would allow. So, if you like high speed, and the motor won't get too hot at medium speed, the set the pulley in the smallest V on the spindle pulley. You must be in straight alignment both vertically and horizontally.

Below are 2 pictures of a J9 motor pulley I made. I couldn't figure out how to take the flywheel off, so I just made a 2" diameter pulley extension about 1 1/4" long to accommodate the pulley grooves. I got my specs online from a belt/bearing place, aluminum from a metal supplier, and used a friends lathe and mill to complete it. It can be made on a good quality wood lathe if you have a chuck and a carbide diamond tool like the Ci4. The tip/insert should be a pointed instead of the blunted they offer.

J9 pulley extension









How it was mounted onto the flywheel. 









That setup lasted for about 2 years before I forgot to cover the control board and the sun fried it. I then converted from the TM motor to a 3 phase 2hp Dayton motor that was on my dust collector when I had my cabinet business. All I had to do was make the motor mount, and make another 2" motor pulley as the spindle pulley had 2" and 4" steps to give me high and low. . . ........... Jerry (in Tucson)


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## Underdog (Oct 29, 2012)

> From reading I ve done I need to be gentle with the pulleys.
> - CharlieBrady


There's an understatement. Those pulleys are fragile. They WILL NOT take any rough handling. I broke one without even trying…

I sold that lathe not too long after.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> I understand that the TM motor arbor is threaded 1/2" 13 TPI Left thread. And it's easy to remove the flywheel if you can drive the motor in reverse:


There is no standard size, so don't bet the farm on finding a motor with a 1/2-13 threaded shaft. And as for removing the flywheel, I've had some that came off kind of easy, some kind of hard, one that wouldn't come off no matter what I did. For that one, I just ran it slow and cut a v-notch into it to accept a standard v-belt.

Where are you located? I just put a really nice 2hp PMDC motor and controller out on CL a couple of days ago!










Cheers,
Brad


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## CharlieBrady (May 27, 2020)

I am in Ottawa, Canada. Thanks, but I have a motor and controller.

I have the flywheel removed from my shaft, so I know the thread, and I know that it was easy to remove. I do want to put it back though, which is very simply done.

Jerry, your lathe had a 4 step pully, so "set the pulley in the smallest V on the spindle pulley" made sense for you, but there is only one V on the spindle pulley in my lathe. It's a reeve continuously variable system.

I think the simplest conversion I can do is to leave the flywheel plus J pulley unchanged, and slip a V pulley over the J pulley. 'FanMan" did that here:

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/another-treadmill-conversion.53938/post-450222

One option is to buy an off-the-shelf aluminum pulley and bore it to slip over the existing poly-v belt pulley (as FanMan's friend did for him) - another is to fabricate a pulley from plywood and turn it in-place on the new motor.

In further news, there's no urgency for me to do anything, since I re-assembled it all and tested it out, and the reeves system is now working. I have full speed range, FWIW. I will put that down to the penetrating oil.But no, I won't, that would be disingenuous. I think it was working all along - I just expected the mechanism to move when the lathe wasn't rotating, but for some reason it doesn't do that.

I still have only one functioning set-screw on the outer half of the spindle sheeve. I'm guessing that one good set-screw and the snap-ring will be sufficient. If not, I'll need to strip it down again and drill and tap for a new set-screw. The drilling will need to be done with precise positioning and good equipment, because the set screw is much harder than the pulley metal (Zamak/pot metal/zinc alloy).


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> I think it was working all along - I just expected the mechanism to move when the lathe wasn't rotating, but for some reason it doesn't do that.


LOL - yeah, that would be the problem - the lathe has to be running in order to change the speed. It is no different than any other lathe with a reeves drive. If you watch it in operation, you will understand why. Trying to move the lever with the machine off can in some instances damage the drive, however it usually will just result in a machine that won't spin until you get up in there and re-tension the belt.

Now get out there and start making some chips!

Cheers,
Brad


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

To change speed with the lathe off, apply light pressure to the lever and rotate the spindle by hand. When I had that lathe I would forget to change to the lowest speed before turning it off, usually finishing a small turning. Then mount a large bowl blank or similar, and then need to lower the speed. Dont want to spin that big blank at 1500 or higher.


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## CharlieBrady (May 27, 2020)

Thanks OSU55, but that doesn't work for me. It doesn't budge.

With the outer spindle pulley half and worm gear removed, I can just move the other pulley half a little in and out with full hand force. I wasn't able to remove that pulley half from the spindle.

So now I have re-assembled the lathe and turned my first spindle. I see what people are saying about the feeble motor. I'm keener than ever to do the treadmill motor conversion.

On further thought, I think the easiest way to do it will be to use a small jackshaft. I could use the front roller from the treadmill. It is a tube 19 1/2" long, with a 62022 ball bearing at each end, and a steel rod about 9/16" running through it. It has a plastic J10 pulley glued on at one end. f I cut it about 6" long, on the end which already has the pulley attached, and press a ball bearing into the cut end, I will have a short jackshaft to which I can add a V pulley. That will allow me to leave the lathe pulley and treadmill motor flywheel/pulley unmodified. As a bonus, the treadmill roller pulley already has a magnet attached.


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## CharlieBrady (May 27, 2020)

Jerry, I am curious as to why you added the second J9 pulley, rather than use the one already on the flywheel. What did you use on the spindle side? I think by "I used it like that for a few weeks until I had the chance to make my own J pulley" that you made a J pulley for the lathe spindle.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> So now I have re-assembled the lathe and turned my first spindle. I see what people are saying about the feeble motor.
> - CharlieBrady


Interesting. I have the Jet (JWL-1236) which, according to your original posting, is basically the same lathe as what you have. The 3/4 hp motor on it has been more than sufficient for everything I've thrown at it, and I've never been able to stall it - although I probably could if I went way overly aggressive. And I don't do much spindle work, mostly hollow forms and bowls, which puts a much harder load on it.

I'm wondering if you have something else going on. For a spindle, 3/4 hp should be overkill. Do you have the correct drive belt (for the Jet, it's a 3L230) and Is it in good condition? Any fraying on the edges or signs of excessive wear? Did you get any grease/oil on the reeves pulleys?

Cheers,
Brad


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## CharlieBrady (May 27, 2020)

I have a new 3L240 belt.

I am a complete newbie, so I'm likely to blame. In looking at the piece, I see that the spur was spinning, so I think that means I didn't advance the tailstock enough.

The ball bearing is a 6202Z, not 62022. That's 35mm od, 15mm id.


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## CharlieBrady (May 27, 2020)

Thanks for the pointer. No stalls once the spur was propertly engaged in the workpiece!

Does anyone have handy tips for cheap or easy replacements for the little cast handles for the toolrest set screws? One of mine is missing, and the other is slipping on the hex head.


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## Nubsnstubs (Aug 30, 2013)

> Jerry, I am curious as to why you added the second J9 pulley, rather than use the one already on the flywheel. What did you use on the spindle side? I think by "I used it like that for a few weeks until I had the chance to make my own J pulley" that you made a J pulley for the lathe spindle.
> 
> - CharlieBrady


Charlie, using the normal V belt on the motor's J pulley worked just fine like I said, as long as I didn't try to move the belt to another groove in the normal 4 step pulley on the spindle. If I did try to move the belt to another groove, it wouldn't be aligned with the motor pulley and would possibly come off because it was only about 7/8" long. I didn't want to have those problems. So I made the extension.

My motor speed was from 0- to 3400?. I think I was having torque problems with the belt in the smaller spindle pulley when I was using the low speeds. At top speed, I had plenty torque. What I wanted was more torque at low speed. I couldn't figure out how to remove the flywheel pulley, so I just extended the motor pulley. I then made a 2 step spindle pulley with a 2" and 4" to accommodate the 9 groove belt that matched the treadmill motor. After doing that, I don't think I used the high speed more than 5 times in 6 years. My low speed was limited from 0 to 1700 rpm and high was from 0 to 3400 rpm. ........... Don't hesitate to ask if you have anymore questions. .......... Jerry (in Tucson)


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## CharlieBrady (May 27, 2020)

Thanks Jerry, that makes sense.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> Does anyone have handy tips for cheap or easy replacements for the little cast handles for the toolrest set screws? One of mine is missing, and the other is slipping on the hex head.
> - CharlieBrady


If they are the same as on the Jet, you can still buy them (along with the bolt/screw they use) from the various aftermarket places… a quick google search turns up a bunch of sources. I did have a missing handle on my tailstock when I purchased it, so I used the other one to make a DIY silicone mold, and then cast a new one using epoxy tinted black. Works just fine for the tailstock where not a lot of force is needed, but I don't think I would use it for the tool rest.

Alternatively, you could always use a standard 5/16"-18tpi bolt and fashion a handle for it out of pretty much anything… wood, old milk jugs, epoxy/polyester resin - whatever you may have on hand. Might not turn out pretty, but it certainly will be functional.

Cheers,
Brad


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## Nubsnstubs (Aug 30, 2013)

MSC has them. Pretty much any size you think you need. They are Ratchet Lever Handles

Another supplier is https://www.mcmaster.com/ratchet-handles ............. Jerry (in Tucson)


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## CharlieBrady (May 27, 2020)

Thanks for the great suggestions. Given the price of the replacement handles, and their possible lack of durability, I think I will either make handles for a bolt, or use something like these star knobs:

https://www.jwwinco.com/en-us/products/2.2-Tensioning-clamping-with-handles/Star-knobs/GN-6336.4-Plastic-Star-Knobs-with-Steel-Threaded-Stud


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## CharlieBrady (May 27, 2020)

FTR, the set-screws on the Mastercraft lathe are not 5/16-18. They are metric - M10×1.5.

My next challenge is to align the tailstock. There is a little left-right wobble, and the live centre is about 1/16" low. So I need to shim. I am thinking a combination of aluminum sheet and UHMW plastic film, glued to the machined faces at the bottom of the tailstock for the vertical offset, and to the side face of the tenon for the left-right wobble.


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## CharlieBrady (May 27, 2020)

This should be good enough:



















I didn't wait until I had some UHMW film - I've used electrical tape.


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## CharlieBrady (May 27, 2020)

And now after tweaking the headstock position I am happy to call it a night:


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