# Outfitting (the shop)



## tlr (Sep 27, 2010)

Ok now that the shop space is almost finished I will ask the age old question of first large tools to buy? 
I will start off by saying that I will be buying a dust collection system first and would love to get input on that. (size and ability to remove dust) The shop is 28'x28' with 9' ceiling height. I have a center beam running down the middle so I am thinking of a layout that takes advantage of that and running vac. down that and off shooting to either side. Now back to tools, I know every body will ask what do you plan on building? (what ever strikes my fancy) etc. I do have a limited budget but still can get a few things to get started all at once. I do not need the best or largest, (it is a hobby) but I do want good quality tools. I do have basic hand tools and a nice chop saw. 
So I invite you all to throw in your two cents and begin the list and why!


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

I think I would figure out what tools I was going to buy before I would deal with the dust collection issue.

I'm not minimizing the importance of duct collection, but I would want to make sure the dust collection system was adequate for the tools I needed to use.

Wouldn't it be a bummer to install a dust collection system, then discover it didn't have enough capacity for the 37" planer you decide to install?


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

If I had 220v, and would set a shop from the get go, I would not go with anything less than a cyclone knowing what I know now.

I personally would go with the ClearVue, but that really is a personal choice. Oneida, PSI, and others have very good cyclones as well.

just make sure that you have a rough idea of what power tools you'll be using so that you can plan ahead the ducting properly.

the rest of the tools really depends on what you're planning to do in terms of projects. to some a Table saw is essential, to others it would be nothing but a paper weight collecting rust.

what are you planning to be doing?


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## tlr (Sep 27, 2010)

I understand your point but isn't there some general rules for distance or runs and volume? And don't I need something until I get that 37" planer? (wow that is some wood)


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

well in most shops, the table saw is the work horse…as far as power tools go..then a planer, joiner and bandsaw..i went with delta 15 years ago and have not had a bit of trouble..lots of folks around here like grizzly, and of coarse powermatic is a wonderful choice also…you can find good tools on graig list if you shop for awhile, and if you can stretch your dollars and get more tools the better huh…im sure plenty og folks will chime in here…good luck with your choices and most of all enjoy your new shop and enjoy your learning in wood working…always more to learn…grizzman


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## tlr (Sep 27, 2010)

Purplev, I am at the point where I want to enjoy creating almost anything from tables to boats, I think that is why I ask the question to help at least make educated choices, if I fall in love with a particular type or style i will adjust but right now I dont have any big ticket items.


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## tlr (Sep 27, 2010)

Grizzman, thanks I will ask another specific question and that is regarding Grizzly tools (how fitting) I am only two hours from the PA store and may take the time to visit, anyone have Grizzly tools? How do they perform? I have been looking at the new "White series" and it seems as thought it may be a good middle of the road for someone like me!
By the way I have enjoyed putting the shop space together and hope to continue!


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

first of all you shuold get an older little worn out relaxing chair a propper reading lamp, a good sized fridge and a coffeemaker and next an office chair and drawingtable with tools like pencils and different rulers and don´t forget the cofee mug and shelfs and what ells you like to look at and inspire …......no not those kind of curves
all this is very importen in the corner of a mans-cave allso called the inspirations idea and solutions chamber 
why the fridge … well you have to ask Degoose (Larry) about that….lol

good luck with the set up and buying tools

Dennis


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## tlr (Sep 27, 2010)

Dennisgrosen, like the style and I am all over it, need a fridge but have a drawing table, a nice chair that needs a little love and… a great couch that we couldn't find a place for when we moved so in the "space" it went. 
I have scrounged a file cabinet for storing the plethora of reading material that my wife cant stand in the house any longer, a few pieces of art, and even a huge chunk of a tree that got blown apart by lightening last year for inspiration (to be hung on a wall of course) it is art.


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

if you take a serius shoptour on L J you deffently will get amazed how many 
that have such a corner some is very small maybee only a shelf with out a fridge but the corner is there
believe me if they ain´t so lucky that they have a room in the house very close to the shop
they can call the libaryoffice…..LOL

Take care
Dennis


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

the other thing you need in your mans corner is a hat like dennis has…no man should be without one


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

as to grizzly tools…many jocks have them and are very happy with them..a1jim has several , ellen35 has there bandsaw…nbeener has the band saw…and the list would go on…they are a good tool and price wise they are a good sale..they do have sales from time to time …tent sales..and good prices are had…the owner of grizzly is very approachable..he is on some other wood sites and has been reached in regards to issues from time to time and he personally responds…this i know from a good friend…...so i do recommend them..but i would also say if you want a higher end tool ..powermatic is a good buy…but make sure you get that hat…and wear it during important decisions…very important…lol


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

nop Grizzman a thinkinghat like the crazy inventor from the Donald Duck magzins 
(Georg gearloose the translated Danish name for him) or his brainhammer …lol

Dennis


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

oh and my corner has a fridge and wood stove…some fine pancakes and eggs and bacon have graced that stove…nothing like the smell of fresh bacon cooking in your shop….if i have missed anything i will try to add it here…lol…but i think ive covered it…...good luck with the tools…nothing like the sound of a smooth running table saw…3hp would be good….if your going to do heavy duty..then 5hp….....my delta is a 3hp and has cut everything ive thrown at it…..grizz


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

a good wood stove is a great tool to have…and if a few pancakes come along…the better…lol


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

I almost forgot it
beside the corner you need a gooood workbench and the best layout tools you can afford
a smother ,blockplane and a shoulderplane + a few good cheisels
even in a powertool shop they can save you alot of times and time

Dennis


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

You can't really go far wrong with a Unisaw, a PM, or-these days-a SawStop, if you want a table saw to be the centerpiece of your shop.

Grizzly does make some pretty darned good TS's, too.

If I were doing it again, I now know that $1,000 and some patience and leg work would get me a heck of a buy on a USED cabinet saw. I think I'd have gone that route.

Lots of people wind up using their band saw more than their table saw. I might suggest you think about buying a bit MORE band saw than your first inclination may have told you. Grizzly and Rikon are pretty good names/values, for these.

Are you looking to turn wood ? A lathe.

Do you like old iron ? Lots of people buy heirloom quality planers and jointers, from auction sites, fix 'em up, and have phenomenal machines that'll outlast us all.

I like having my new (used) drum sander. Grizzly seems to have some pretty good values on these.

What's your workbench situation ? You going to make one ? In conjunction with a table saw_, that's probably Ground Zero for most of your shop work. Either buy or build something heavy, solid, sturdy, and that will fit your needs.

Lighting. Do it up. Outlets. Ditto. You can never have too many outlets or too much light. Make your shop warm in the winter and cool in the summer-a place you'll want to be.

Good luck !


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## ND2ELK (Jan 25, 2008)

Table saw. I have a friend that just bought a Grizzly cabinet saw. Good looking saw for the money.

You might look at my blog, Dust Collection In!. It might give you some good info. I put my dust collection system in first and was very pleased that I did it that way. If I can answer any questions please feel free to ask.

God Bless
tom


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

buy as big a DC as you can afford; ie. get something with a large impeller (bigger than 12") and high HP. This is more important than any fancy cyclone DC that you could buy, especially if you are going to have a long run of ducting.


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

I think we need to know some idea of your budget before we can be very helpful. I'd be on the side of saying you start with a table saw, but if your entire budget is $3K, then starting with a SawStop is out of the question. If it's $10K, then a lot of us would say SS first.

After the table saw, you get more divergence. I'd be looking for a drill press first, then a planer and a jointer, then a bandsaw.

Now, I'm in the CNC camp, so after the jointer and the planer (no, actually, it was BEFORE the jointer and the planer), I'm building a CNC Router. I had a table saw.

For DC, again budget is a key determinant. I fully agree with AWSIII, go through Bill Pentz's site thoroughly before buying anything. In low budget, the HF 2HP DC, upgraded with a Wynn filter and a Thein separator is a good choice, and at the high end, the Clearvue, with their 5HP blower and a Wynn filter is a good choice.

Of course, those are the stationary power tools. You need good router: Festool on the high end, Porter Cable in the middle, and I'm a Hitachi MV12 fan. You need a router table. Build it yourself, or buy one. A lift is real nice.

You need a way to break down a big piece of plywood or MDF. The cheap way is a decent circular saw and a guide clamp. The really nice way is a track saw with Festool at the high end and Makita more affordable.

You need sanding capability. If you are in high budget territory, an overhead drum sander is really great. Everyone needs a random orbital sander. Again, Festool at the high end, and Ridgid, Dewalt, Makita, etc are more affordable. Spindle, disk and belt sanders all have their uses.

Most of us have a jigsaw. A scroll saw is nice for some kinds of work.

I assume you have a couple of drills. The advice about a basic set of hand tools is also good.

Then there is turning. It's a whole branch in itself. Lathe. Don't know much about this branch myself.


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## tlr (Sep 27, 2010)

Ahh I knew this would be a great place, i could feel it! Thanks to all for your input! 
I guess I should help a little more with more info. Like I said a have a decent collection of hand tools, a few planes, hand saws, chisels (one set for trashing another better set for nicer work) a nice DeWalt compound miter saw (to help me build the space), a small bench, and a big heavy thing I just built ( I guess I will have to post some pictures) a porter cable circ. saw, and a bunch of misc. tools I have picked up over a long time. I just spent a 10 day vacation with my father of 77 insulating and putting OSB up trying to get the shop to a point where I can heat it. (Nice Dad, man he wore me out the guy is a working machine but lives all the way across the country so it is hard to get together, I had to entice him with work to make the trip
So my tool budget took a hit with all of the lumber and insulation but right now I am struggling with table saw vs a big band saw only because I have the potential to re-saw a fair amount of lumber I have access to, therefore I could use a large planner, maybe 15". I really want to control the dust so that will be one of the first things also. 
That pretty much puts me at my starting budget of around 3-4 grand that I have in the bank. 
I don't want everything automated and I do like a fair amount of hand work because of the process, that's what this is all about for me, "the trip not the destination" as long as there is the smell of wood in the air and the feel of it my hands a am a pretty happy guy.
Neil made the comment about the band saw being used a lot and I have read that in the past that you can do a lot with the band saw until you are ready to drop the money on a table saw, I could see that happening with me, then I could slip in a decent drill press and start putting money back into the bank account.
Thanks again for the comments it helps with the decision making process!
I will take some photos this weekend in between coats of paint and try to post them!


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## tlr (Sep 27, 2010)

I almost forgot…I was given a grizzly 6" joiner, pretty old, cant find a model number and I need to call grizzly for some help with setting it up and getting it back in shape, If anyone has a place I can find general/basc info on setting up a joiner it would be greatly appreciated!


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

well let me tell ya…neil as well as a few others have the grizzly bandsaw..in fact neil has just worked on his and added some really nice upgrades, he can help you with some info on that if your interested…but with your budget you could probably get yourself a nice grizzly bandsaw, tablesaw, without busting your bank…there good machines…but you could do it with a couple of grand…or the bandsaw and a planer…i have the delta 15 inch and its a work horse…i built my house with it…i used the antique southern heart pine in my home…all of it had to be planned…if ya wanna see it..its in my projects..but anyway…just a few thoughts …grizzman


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Here's another nickel's worth of free advice.

I *really* like Tom Hintz's book, The New Woodworker Handbook: The Basics for Spending Wisely, Working Safely

You can pick it up, used, for cheap, AND … you can browse through it by clicking on the above link.

I think he takes a very sensible look at what to buy, when to buy, and which to buy.

As for that jointer, you may want to start here

And I totally agree with Grizz. Depending on the kind of WW you'll most be doing, you definitely COULD get yourself a LOT of bandsaw, and then figure out your table saw wants, needs, and budget (or-my preference-start combing through the used market), at your leisure.


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## Steve_B (Oct 30, 2009)

I try to do as many purchases around the holiday sales as I can. It's amazing what you can save by just hitting those sales. 'Tis the season to buy tools.


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

I think you have yourself talked into a bandsaw, but here is what I would do:
a) I'd start with the HF 2HP DC with a Wynn filter and build a Thein Separator
b) I'd buy a decent table saw, probably a mid range Griz, and perhaps upgrade its fence
c) I'd hit up CL for a planer and get your jointer running. I have a Rigid planer and a Jet 6" jointer I got from CL for $420 total
e) I'd get a small drill press (table top) that would work long enough until a better one hit the top of the want list, which might be a while.

That won't probably leave you with quite enough for a big bandsaw, but you might be close. ISTM that the small bandsaws are a poor investment, and you want to start with a pretty big one. I'd look to Griz for that also.

I personally think the TS is a better starter saw than the bandsaw, but there are others who disagree.


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## tlr (Sep 27, 2010)

So I thought I should update everyone and give everyone a big thanks and a little satisfaction, I took a trip to Grizzly last Sat. and ended up coming home with a new shop! Ended up dropping a couple of items to upgrade a few others and still stay within the budget! Boy did the Christmas sales help, and no shipping charges! Ended up with a cabinet saw (on sale), a band saw (on sale), a planer (no sale but the new polar series with an "introductory price") and a dust collection system without any hoses yet need to work on the shop layout more before committing, plus it is the mobile version so I can move it around a bit to test things out first! 
Thanks for all of the great write up's on equipment I came to the conclusion that Grizzly does have some nice stuff but most of it would fall into the "large tools" category, the smaller stuff didn't impress me although I don't own any of their smaller tools so I cant give any hands on review, just a visual. I will try to post some photo's after the packing is all off!


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

a) Without model numbers, or better descriptions, none of us can fully hate you … which … isn't fair to US ;-)

b) Without pictures, it didn't happen.

I believe you have your assignment 

[Huge congrats. I know I-for one-would LOVE to go to one of the Grizzly warehouses, and drop a few grand. Kid in a candy store !. But … yeah … details and pics when you can … pretty please ??]


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## tlr (Sep 27, 2010)

I was just baiting everyone, I wanted to make it last as long as I could but I wont draw it out too long…

OK that's long enough!

Yes it is a candy store and frankly I was kind of overwhelmed, I was at the point of after all the years of saving and actually putting the money down was putting me into a haze, maybe I was a little hungry also ;-) ...

So here it is, I got a 3hp 10 table saw, I upgraded to a 19" band saw because they were out of stock on the smaller one and I figured that with the money I would spend on shipping and if I drop some of my want list I could afford it! It is the one with the foot brake instead of the electronic one, the planer is the new polar 15", Both of these rated pretty high on my list because of the ability to re-saw my own lumber. The dust collection was on the small side but I am not in a production environment and I am only running one machine at a time. 
Steve, I will totally agree on taking advantage of the sales, I estimated that I could have saved around $1300, but in fact spent it all on upgrading, but either way I made out much better just because of timing. Anyone who is saving up for equipment take advantage of the Christmas sales or wait until next year! (or in my case several years)
Not everything is un-crated yet and I am going to have to run some 220 to the machines. 
Priority is getting the shop completely enclosed, a buddy of mine (he helped with the shipping and unloading, thanks) had a great wood storage idea so I will be working on that as well!
Pressure me and I might get the camera out!


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

okay I have got the big 20 ton hydralic set up and squiiise now is that enoff pressure 
or ells I know a freind who works on the shipyard who has a 100 ton

GET THAT CAMERA OUT NOW !


Dennis


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Pressure.


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## tlr (Sep 27, 2010)

Finally got some shots of the shop last night! 
Can I just post photo's to LJ's ? of do I really have to set up an account on a photo-bucket type place?


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

you can do it from your computer very easely
when you are in the comment box and write 
just over the box there is four botten click on the one that says img
and follow the directions its sooooo easy 

Dennis


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

You can post 6 in your 'Wprkshop' or as a project … if you want to post more than that, you'll need a service like Photobucket.


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## tlr (Sep 27, 2010)

Thanks!









shop looking through the last wall to be finished (studs on left)









Looking from the right side









planer









table saw









Band saw









bench I built, still needs hold downs etc.
Built from scap 2"x12" lam beams I ripped and bolted together, so I could refine later. Top is 3/4' MDF with a sheet of 3/16' hardboard on top. It weighs about a ton and a half 









never saw the "bear heads" before last night, I usually am more in-tune with those things, must be in a daze!

Looking forward to a long weekend and getting help getting the band saw off the shipping base. I still am looking at layouts so even though I want to hear everything running I still have plenty to do. Plus I need to get the the mower off the tractor and the snow blower on before the snow fly's, gotta keep Momma happy!
Everyone have a great Thanksgiving! I for one have much to be thankful for even beyond the obvious new toys! Be careful out there and enjoy life it's the only one you have!!!
~Tom


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

NOW YOU ARE MOVING …LOL
soon you will make sweet music in there

Dennis


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Awwwwwwww.

Beautiful.

And you did good, at Grizzly.

Real good


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

This is a terrific looking shop … nice toys, plenty of space, and a wood floor to boot!

Well done!

-Gerry


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

wow neil…you see them new tools…should we go hijack thais stuff….hey and neil you need one of those garage doors for your shop…maybe excavate a couple of windows out…that would save the frogs for sure…..i really like the bandsaw…good luck with all of your new tools…you will love it…using your shop will be a total joy…...yes there are some smiling faces in a new shop today…......hip hip hooray…......


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## tlr (Sep 27, 2010)

Griz, yes it hard to keep the grin off my face, people are going to start to wonder what is going on!

Thanks to all of you for the input it always helps to hear other views and considerations to take into account, I am sure I will be asking more questions about a lot of different things!


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## Rick Dennington (Aug 27, 2009)

Hey tlr:
I would suggest you taking some shop tours here on LJs to kinda get an idea of different layouts….It might help you to decide your placemnet of tools, etc. There are some great shops on here. Take a look at mine..You might get an idea there, too. I've got my tools and DC placed where everything fits and works nicely together…..Great shop….Have fun setting it up..I know you will, though…..Have a nice T.G…. Rick.


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

DROOL!!!!


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## Bob42 (Jan 9, 2008)

Nice job on the sales. The place looks great. I can't wait to see the projects that come from it. Congrats on all of it.

I would take a look at Craigs list and see what is up for sale. You might have to buy some tools out of the order you might like but can save that way. I have had very good luck buying and selling.


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