# Cabinet Masters Requested: Retrofitting Wood Doors to Vintage Kitchen's Sheet Metal Sink Cabinet



## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

Hi Folks,
I'm renovating/restoring my kitchen which is 90 years old.

It has a cast iron double farmer sink mounted on a sheet metal cabinet, 1920s.
The cabinet in general is in surprisingly good shape for it's age and the use and abuse it's seen. The sheet metal doors however have been kicked closed too many times and are dented and the metal stretched. They are attached with knife hinges, which you can see in my pics. If I could get access to the inner screws on the knife hinges I could remove the doors and just make new ones to screw on the hinges. The problem is the inner screw on each knife hinge isn't accessible … there does seem to be a way to access it, but it's from inside the cabinet through a little hole, unfortunately the sink would need to be removed to gain access to the hole… removing the sink would open up a worse can of worms and is not an option, trust me on this. Also, the screws on the hinges that are accessible will not turn.

Initially my plan was a quick and dirty stripping plus some Bondo on the door faces which I started doing, but I think I need to change course and abandon that approach.

Frankly, I've had my fill of paint stripping (stripping the entire built in cabinetry plus trim and door/window frames … which when I post pics you'll think I'm absolutely nuts). So I want to figure out another solution for these doors.

I have two ideas I'd like to get some development and feedback on.

1) the first is quick and dirty. I was thinking I could re-face the doors: attach a thin panel to the outside of the doors to make a smooth, even, planar, surface that would look good, the thinner the better. Something like 1/8 Baltic birch plywood maybe epoxied to the doors?? Not sure how to mount it cleanly. You'd only see the face of the doors 98% of the time; the only time you'd see the edges are in accessing the sink cabinet for cleaning supplies. So either Baltic Birch or maybe even something thinner and/or another material. But what material and how to attach it to the doors? 
I like this idea because it would allow me to just get something done now quickly and inexpensively, and I think it would look OK.

2) The other idea is to cut/grind off the door hinges and toss the doors in the garbage where they belong.
Then, if I can locate a cope and stick router bit to match the kitchen cabinets I can make a door with poplar and plywood panels. The question then would be what sort of hinge hardware and how to mount it to the cabinet? I could easily mount a wood stile strip on the steel cabinet as a surface to mount the hinges to.
This approach has the benefit of getting the doors off so I can strip the remaining paint between door-and-frame, which I can't easily access now. I can clean it up real nice, spray paint everything, and





















































have nicely functioning doors, that are a step up in style from the utilitarian cabinet. 
The problem is finding the right router bit which I've not yet been able to do (here's a link to my thread with the cabinet door profile specs - maybe someone here has experience with sourcing router bits: http://lumberjocks.com/topics/275225).

Maybe even do #1 now quick & dirty & super cheap, then do #2 at a later date. 
However, I'd really like to get trash the doors and get in the crevices of the cabinet to strip it good NOW so I don't have to make a mess in my kitchen with chemicals and dust all over again at a later date.

Any suggestions?


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## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)




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## cabmaker (Sep 16, 2010)

Are you dealing with the entire kitchen or just the sink base ?

Why would you want to go to such extreme on a low end base cabinet like that one ?

Remove the doors and attach a face frame to the metal cabinet is one way…....


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## crb (Apr 12, 2017)

90 years is a good run for anything that isn't a tree. Don't do #1. Remove everything your can and do it right. Especially if you plan to live there.


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## JCamp (Nov 22, 2016)

Are you against pulling the cabinets completely out and installing or building new ones? You could always use those in a building or garage


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## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

> Are you against pulling the cabinets completely out and installing or building new ones? You could always use those in a building or garage
> 
> - JCamp


From my OP:
"removing the sink would open up a worse can of worms and is not an option, trust me on this."

Pulling the cabinet is solving a problem other than the one I have. The cabinet and sink stay. Period. 
At issue is the door situation.


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## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

> Are you dealing with the entire kitchen or just the sink base ?
> Why would you want to go to such extreme on a low end base cabinet like that one ?
> 
> Remove the doors and attach a face frame to the metal cabinet is one way…....
> ...


I suppose I'm an extreme fellow.

The entire kitchen will have practically not a single surface untouched, not a single square inch, but it will retain the same DNA.

For a detailed report and pics go here:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f17/built-kitchen-cabinet-stripping-restoration-let-me-draw-your-expertise-200209/





































Can you provide some more detail and reference for a face frame retrofit? 
I was considering just adding a stile on each side for door hinges to attach to. May not even need a stile as there's a sheet metal stile of sorts.


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## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

> 90 years is a good run for anything that isn t a tree. Don t do #1. Remove everything your can and do it right. Especially if you plan to live there.
> 
> - crb


#1 gets me up and running ASAP with crisper cabinet doors than I've had. I've got time pressures, I want to make moves.
#2 can be implemented at a later date when I have less on my platter, which is full beyond belief at present. 
If I could locate a cope and stick router bit to match the present cabinet doors I'd jump in on #2 now, but I've not had any luck getting a match:

Help Locating a Couple Router Bit Profiles
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/275225

I'm looking for invention, design, fabrication, creative solutions, problem solving … that sort of thing.

Nothing wrong with this sink. There's 80,000 variations on themes to do with this sink cabinet, form the most banal and functional, to the most outrageous design excursion in modern times.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Are you against pulling the cabinets completely out and installing or building new ones? You could always use those in a building or garage
> 
> - JCamp
> 
> ...


LOL. Welcome to LJ, where actually reading the thread rarely happens.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Remove doors, install a face frame and make new ones.

I would go with inset doors. Simple shaker style - flat panels and no mouldings.

They are already different from the rest of the cabinetry, anyway so don't worry about matching them.


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## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

> Remove doors, install a face frame and make new ones.
> 
> I would go with inset doors. Simple shaker style - flat panels and no mouldings.
> 
> ...


That's an option, and not a bad one.
However if possible I'd really like to keep the cabinet door profile as I have another base cabinet I wish to make to go under my kitchen window. Also, I wonder if a full face frame will look weird at the sink … it would certainly interfere with sliding things in and out of the sink, like buckets etc. I'd like to just open the doors and have a flush bottom shelf to slide things in and out.

I guess I need to seek out some router bit experts to assist in sourcing the cope and stick bit.


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## Sparks500 (Jun 30, 2017)

I'm just throwing out a thought here, but, a sheet metal shop could make an overlay on the existing door that could be pop riveted on the edges. Or, if you're feeling really brave, soldered.


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## Sparks500 (Jun 30, 2017)

I'm also wondering where this is located. Could this be an old St. Charles kitchen?


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## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

> I m also wondering where this is located. Could this be an old St. Charles kitchen?
> 
> - Sparks500


I've never heard of St. Charles kitchens before so looked them up. Apparently the company was founded in 1935. The kitchen cabinetry here is original (and it's all in very rough shape): it's an apartment building built in the late 1920s so a St. Charles provenance isn't a possibility although it's interesting to have a peek at that bit of history, thanks for sharing that.

Btw, only the sink cabinet is metal all the rest are built-in from wood … I'm amazed at how efficiently the latter were constructed. It looks to me like the cabinetmaker used materials available from the job site: for example a small counter top is made from a window sill as it shares the edge profile, while all the cleats and internal cabinet shelf supports and cleats are made from picture rail molding.


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## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

> I m just throwing out a thought here, but, a sheet metal shop could make an overlay on the existing door that could be pop riveted on the edges. Or, if you re feeling really brave, soldered.
> 
> - Sparks500


It's a great idea, but likely too costly for me … the overlay idea I had was really geared towards a quick & dirty (and cheap) interim solution. It's a good idea for me to replace the doors … I just need to resolve sourcing a router bit to match the present cabinet's profile (not having any luck there). In the entire apartment it's the sink cabinet that has honors as the 'dark unconscious'. The leaks it's seen, the place where mice ran into and out of, the botched plumbing jobs by unskilled handymen, the likely rotted wood flooring underneath and one can only imagine what mysteries reside inside the back wall. The sink cabinet doors don't open or close in cleanly, and they've been kicked closed and abused as one can tell by the dents.

So, to invert the vibe in that area: make nice does with good hinges, make a better under sink organization system, maybe put an LED light under there, and make it warm and welcoming would have an impact on the apartment's psyche.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

> Remove doors, install a face frame and make new ones.
> 
> I would go with inset doors. Simple shaker style - flat panels and no mouldings.
> 
> ...


Looking at that pic again, you don't need a face frame at all. Just make doors to match the rest of the cabinetry and use inset type euro hinges. That way they'll be hidden. You'll need to back up the doors somehow with an astralagus or rabbet on one door edge with a catch to keep them even when closed.

One way or another, you gotta get the doors off first and see whats possible.

You don't need a router bit just run the groove for the panel all the way and make a stub tenon on the rails.

OR, just build it to match the rest of the kitchen.


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## Sparks500 (Jun 30, 2017)

How about cut the old hinges out and hang plywood doors with piano hinges?
Simple, cheap, fast…


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## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

Ok, I cut the doors off (still need to drill out or get a cylindrical disk for my die grinder to get the remaining hinge parts out). I'll strip the paint off metal shortly and grind/sand off the corrosion.
It feels good having those doors off, they were in sad shape.

Sparks500 plywood suggestion provides an option if I need to make an quick & dirty temporary solution.

However, I'd like to just bust in and make a couple doors ASAP.

Here's pics of the cabinet sans doors.
Btw, the 2" wide vertical framing sides of the cabinet are flat, that may to tell as half has paint and half doesn't creating an illusion of it being stepped. 
There's also an inside lip 5/8" wide on both sides and 7/8" wide on the top. 
The doors were 7/8" thick. The closure system was two little posts screwed into the cabinet's top at the center and corresponding an inset spring clip at the top corner of each door which pinched the post when the door was shut.

One concern that I have is the metal doors are pretty lightweight. The metal cabinet is stiff enough to do its job, support the weight of a heavy cast iron double sink, and also me standing on it which I've done often … but the metal is fairly thin gage and it's not a tank. The doors for a small cabinet located next to the sink (1-1/8" thick) are
pretty heavy in comparison. I hope the cabinet is sturdy enough to support door mounted directly to them without distorting over time.


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## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

> Looking at that pic again, you don t need a face frame at all. Just make doors to match the rest of the cabinetry and use inset type euro hinges. That way they ll be hidden. You ll need to back up the doors somehow with an astralagus or rabbet on one door edge with a catch to keep them even when closed.
> 
> One way or another, you gotta get the doors off first and see whats possible.
> 
> ...


What sort of Euro style hinges are you suggesting?
Any alternate hinge suggestions? 
Also, depending on the hinge type, a magnetic catch might also work to keep the door closed.

A stub tenon Shaker style door is an option, but I'd prefer to be able to source a router bit to match the cabinets. I'm just clueless where to find it. I need to get in touch with folks that have a deep knowledge of router bits … not sure where to find them.


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## JBrow (Nov 18, 2015)

Lovegasoline,

A variation of the face frame theme could be to build a door assembly similar to that found with pre-hung passage doors. The outer dimensions of the frame into which the doors mount would match the cabinet opening dimensions. The width of the jambs, head, and sill could be such that the door assembly is recessed (stepped back) from what appears to be a retrofitted outer wooden frame. The door frame may have to be rabbeted to set snugly into the opening and result in a tight joint to the outer wooden frame. The thickness of the all frame parts could be ¾". Stops (or one stop mounted to the head of the frame only) could be added to the frame to prevent inward over-swing of the doors.

The doors could be inset into the frame and mounted with knife hinges. The frame assambly could then be attached to the cabinet with sheet metal screws through the frame into the metal cabinet.

This idea includes a ¾" thick sill, and given the age of the cabinets, a ¾" plywood bottom could be installed in the cabinet to eliminate the lip created by the door frame's sill (although if the bottom of the cabinet is in good condition, probably unnecessary). However the clearance under the trap may require a cutout in the plywood bottom, which could require either a thinner plywood bottom or no plywood bottom. If a plywood bottom is added, the plywood would best be finished with several coats of a standing-water protective finish on all six edges. Also, applying a bead of silicone caulk to seal the plywood seams to the cabinet sides, back, and door frame sill would help keep any leaking water from getting under the plywood.


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## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

JBrow,
Thanks for the ideas.

I'd been thinking that just adding a thin door jamb to each side of the cabinet (not sure if I'm using the correct terminology … picture just the stiles from a faceframe) and attaching cabinet door hinges directly to that.
Even simpler: forgo the framing (faceframes or jambs) by just screwing cabinet door's hinges (leaf or other hinge type) directly into the metal cabinet using sheet metal screws, bolts, or wood screws with a backing strip of wood behind the metal. There's already a lip at the top of the metal cabinet opening that will function as a stop, and if self-closing hinges aren't used some sort of catch to keep the doors closed.

The floor of the metal cabinet is in OK condition. A few months ago I grinded the old paint off and used some Rustoleum rusty metal primer (the reddish brown stuff) just in case and topcoated with a couple coats of a good glossy oil enamel. The floor has a small dent at the front edge and is a little stretched (tin can lid effect) in one area, but it will suffice. After the major work is done to the kitchen I'll build better shelving under there to maximize the storage space. What I'd like to get is a hard plastic floor liner to contain any plumbing or cleaning supplies leaks but the dimensions are probably non-standard (fyi, the motivation for grinding and repainting the floor was a small undetected leak that was starting to corrode the metal).


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## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

Deleted (inadvertently posted to wrong thread)


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## jerryminer (Jun 15, 2014)

I don't think you'll have a problem with the door weight. I would make a pair of simple flat-panel doors, 3/4" thick (or up to 7/8" with a standard router cope-and-stick set).

You could hang the doors with butt hinges screwed into the metal stiles-but fitting and adjusting can get fussy with butt hinges.

Might be easier to use euro-hinges, but you'll have to create an "anchor point" for the hinge base-which could be simply a strip of wood mounted behind the lip on the metal cabinet.

I think Infinity door set 91-501 comes pretty close to matching your other cab.s:


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## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

^ The dimensions/proportions seem to be off … as is the case with many ogee cabinet door bits, and the doors here are 1-1/16 thick …. vs. 7/8" max of many of the router bits I've come across with ogee profile. I'd like to keep the same door thickness dimensions in the event I end up having to remake some doors. 
However, I'd sacrifice the 1-1/16" thickness if I could locate a router bit set that will match the ogee dimensions on the outside face of the door … see image below:










Not easy as I'm unfamiliar with the range of manufacturer's router bit tooling.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Freud bit sets like this one can handle doors up to 1-1/4" thick. It's an ogee profile, but the dimensions might not match what you have exactly. The images on the product page are pretty accurate, so you can make a decent guess what the specific dimensions of the elements of the profile are.


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