# Which boat to build?



## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

I was going to just private message shipwright directly but then I thought it would be interesting what other Jocks would have to say…

Paul,

I've just reread your blog "The Smaug blog" and looking at many of your other projects and really appreciate the wealth of information you've shared. I am hopeful that I can impose on your generosity a bit more. My family and I really enjoy fishing but can't afford to be anything other than shore fishers. But then I look at all the amazing wooden boat sites out there and even looked at some of the pricing for materials to get a ball park budget. According to the schedule on one site I think I could build a row/sailboat for about $3 000 and this maybe isn't out of the realm of a possible budget for my family. I guess where my imposing on you generosity comes in is that I'd like your advice on the reality of someone with some skill but a lot of motivation being 1) able to build a real boat 2) are the many web site plans actually useful. I've been looking at various web pages (thanks for the links in some of your blogs) and am amazed and bewildered by the variety. Which boat would be suitable for a family to build, launch and use for freshwater fishing on the many Manitoba lakes some small but possible ones like Lake Manitoba or Winnipeg as well? I am hopeful that this boat can be a chance for my family to build something together but also hope that the kids will have a legacy to enjoy for many years to come.

I've enormously enjoyed your workbench build; the wedge vice you built is ingenious.

Thank you,

Mark


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

Wow…I cant wait to see this discussion…I will add my two cents later…was just coming on to do a quick e-mail check when I saw this…I will add some links and thoughts…

I would say three things to get started: 
1) really think about your goals…and what do you really want to do with the boat…you mention fishing and family…does that expand to overnight trips? motor? sail?
2) Get in some boats. I did not do this…I just went off the net…and I am happy…but maybe if I had gotten down to yacht club and talked to some people-I may have gone in another direction. 
3) Consider small to large…I started my PDR after I ran into a guy who was launching his 14th BOAT build…and he made me really think about wishing I had gone with a smaller boat (then my weekender) to build real quick…this was before I had heard of a PDR…a month later SCA (Small Craft Advisory Magazine-great magazine) did a feature on the PDR…so I started it! Now I have NEITHER done, LOL. But they say-with some help you can do this boat in a weekend or two--so it could be a fun one to start with, learn on…and then give you more time to find the right plans/boat for the bigger plans.

Ok…I got going more then I meant to…LOL…

I will be following this post…

Matt


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Thanks Matt. Following your build and the realities of time commitments is part of why I asked these questions. I've looked at a couple of build 'em in a weekend' and thought should I start with something that small to cut my sailing teeth on? But then I look at them again and think this is just a butt ugly collection of plywood…do I really want to invest time and money in it? A big part of the build is a way to spend time together as a family, so in some ways a longer build time is a good thing. The boat should be big enough for 4 people, sure the kids are small (7 and 9) now but that changes daily!

There a couple of lakes just south of us where we'll probably first star learning to sail (Max Lake and William Lake) . Getting someone to teach us to sail is a good idea, I'll have to ask around to see if anybody does sail around here. Most folk rely on gas to move their boats, I really want to use rowing or sailing. Maybe its the hand tool/power tool thing scaled up a bit


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## dkirtley (Mar 11, 2010)

First place to look for all that is home built boat info is Duckworks Magazine. It is the major hub of boat building.

There are many designs suitable for first time builders and there is a large support group through different forums to help you along.

Without getting into the politics of the PDR world, I really recommend a first set of plans to look at would be Michael Storer's Oz Racer plans. That would be the best inexpensive place to look at a general primer on plywood and fiberglass boat building. Since you mention a family, a PDR will not suit but a Goose might. A little more upscale and probably the most elegant (in my opinion) would be a Goat Island Skiff. It is a high performance sailing boat that is just disguised as a traditional skiff. You are not going to find anything that will have as much boat with less materials. Very few parts. Not unimportantly, very light and easy to manage when not in the water.

In the larger family type boats, B&B boat designs Core Sound 17 (He has many other designs as well) is a lovely boat that is also available as a CNC pre-cut kit. Don't forget to look at John Welsford's designs as well. Some of the more unconventional designs of Phil Bolger are worth looking at as well. Many are still available. I don't know why Jaques Mertans (bateau.com) designs are not more popular but some of them I thing are quite nice. Also some of the older standards such as Selway-Fisher. Francois Vivier has some drop dead gorgeous designs as well. Ross Lillistone has some really cool designs as well. More in the unconventional line of Phil Bolger, Jim Michalak has some that would be a blast to build.

From what I have experienced, the published plans are well worth the cost. They are not just a set of offsets. They have a huge amount of building information included. Most will be available to help you out by email (and sometimes by phone) to help you if you get stuck or something is unclear. It is a small percentage of the overall cost and worth every penny.

There are some free designs available but they vary in completeness and documentation quality. There are some real nice ones if you can read Polish.  Most don't have enough information for first time builders. Gavin Atkins would be the best place to start in the free plans.

That should keep you busy for a while.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Hi Mark,

First of all…. Anyone with any woodworking skills at all can build a simple boat. I'm not much of an expert on that end of the spectrum but I know who is. Check out this site written by a good friend of mine , Michael Bogoger. 
http://dory-man.blogspot.com/ His is the world of small boats and the links and information on his site will give you far more information than I ever could. 
Just one example of a link to be found there is this one on Joel Bergen's Welsford Navigator, Ellie. http://navigatorjoel.blogspot.com/2012/07/sucia-2012-day-1.html Joel is another friend who knows lots about the smaller end of boat building. These sites will introduce you to a broad culture of home builder boaters who embody all that there is to love about boats and boat building.
They are the true spirit of boat building like the amateur sports teams are to their sports. I'm more like the pros who have done so much of it that the wonder is somewhat gone.

That said, I'll always be here to answer questions and help any way I can.

Good luck, and do PM me if you want.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Thanks David for the info…now my search has gotten even wider LOL! The Oz Racers do seem to be more straightforward to build. I watched a number of videos on the GIS, it is a nice looking boat, I'm going to have to explore those a little more.

I think I need to start compiling a list of all the different styles and such to try and figure out what I am looking for. Do you think the 3 000 range is doable, or is that an impractical number?


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Hello Paul, 
Thank you for your response I really appreciate the analogy of the athlete versus the amateur. Thank you for the encouragement about anyone with woodworking skills being able to build a boat, yours and David's comments are encouraging. In wandering around Michael and Joel's blog their passion for these small craft is easily seen.

You mentioned in the Smaug blog that you may do a blog on stitch and glue, did you do one… I guess I should check your blogs before I ask that question.

It was good to see your 'Friendship' in one of the photos.

After looking at some of the sites David mentioned above and looking at the blogs you mentioned. It seems like CLC's Skerry or the Goat Island Skiff are about the size I am looking for. I will have to check more into as dories as well.


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## dkirtley (Mar 11, 2010)

The GIS is quite doable at 3K. There is not that much material there. He has focused on starting out with a boat and taking out everything that you don't need. You are under a thousand with the ply. He doesn't recommend a lot of glass. You can even start out with a poly tarp sail (or even stay with them.)

There are a lot of build logs with pics and such on his forum on http://www.woodworkforums.com/f169/

The Skerry is a nice boat. I do think it is a lot more complicated build than the GIS. If you want to learn about building that style of stitch and glue, be sure to watch Warren Messer's videos on Youtube. Here is a playlist for one build I kept so I could follow it in sequence:
!



!

The only reason I didn't put his stuff on the list before was he tends to design smaller boats.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

The stitch and glue blog is the last in the "Shipyard Memories" series. Smaug was just the carvel plank part. there are also segments on cold molding and framed plywood construction.


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## DanLyke (Feb 8, 2007)

We built a Summer Breeze 12' long sailboat this spring, took us 5 weekends, if we'd gone painted inside and out we could have gone with fir or pine over redwood and saved a few more bucks over the few hundred it cost us (and maybe even gone in the water faster).

Plywood dories and skiffs are easy to build. From your profile picture, that boat with just a hair more sideboard in the stern would probably hold your kids too for a year or two. And when they outgrow it, you and they can build a one-sheeter (or two-sheeter like the Summer Breeze) of their own.

I'm looking forward to a few years out when we can build something bigger, trailerable rather than car-toppable, that we can take a few friends out on. But as a way to learn boat building, the critical aspects of design and modification of sailing rigs, and a way to get on the water quickly, this project was fantastic and I highly recommend it.


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## TeamTurpin (Oct 3, 2012)

I've built two boats now. The photo below shows my last project, a B&B Lapwing.

Boat building can be a real challenge. Everying is curved. If you want to pursue boat building, Duckworks is a very good place to start. Actually, here's the Duckworks article on the construction of the boat shown below: Article.

Based on what I've learned, here's my unsolicited advice. Pick a path. There is traditional boat building and there is more modern composite/stitch-and-glue construction. There will, of course, be cross-over, but those are the two basic schools out there. Both are rewarding and result in fine boats. But if you want an easy first project, you need to find a plan set that matches that choice. There are some who want a fun project and select a hundred-year-old design that requires meticulous nautical joinery. You need to know what you're signing up for. But, there are hundreds of great boat plans out there and buying/studying plans is half the fun.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Hey, Mark,
I've gotten the bug to build my own boat, and it always was when I had little or no shop space to build it in, and that darn Glen-L catalog would seem to arrive at the least opportune times..: http://www.glen-l.com/boat-plans-catalog-300-boats-you-can-build/


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## skipj (Mar 6, 2012)

A while back Norm (New yanke woodshop) built a small sail boat. You might do a search for it.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Hello David,

Some very interesting videos, and a good site. I find myself reading more on these websites than here at LJ's lately as there is a whole world of woodworking that I was unaware of until I started following some of the links posted here. I am going to have to view more of Warren's videos so I have a better idea how to proceed, thanks for the links.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Hello Paul, 
Thank you for the link to the last portion of your blog. Is that about the upper size limit for a stitch and glue? I found myself thinking how cool it would have been for you to have been video taping those build and then doing an excellant blog on the projects.

Mark


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Hello Dan,

The Summer Breeze looks like another! good candidate. When you say you were shipping water beside the transom does that mean that corner of the boat was that low in the water, or we're waves overtopping it?

Mark


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Wow, Turpin, that's an incredible build! Nice!!!


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Hello John,

That Lapwing is indeed a beautiful craft. I can see what you mean about picking a path, as I am already trying to figure out which approach most appeals to me. The stitch and glue approach seems to be fast and this might be good to keep the family's interest while we build the first boat…uh oh I just said first boat, that might be the sign of another addiction forming.

I look at Dan's Summer Breeze and think that that may be a good way to invest a reasonable amount of money, learn a bit about sailing and then see where to go from there.

Mark


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Hello pk,

Your link to Glen-L was the first I'd heard of them, thank you for the link. They have a whole variety to look at…now I'll be forced to spend even more time checking out boat plans;-)


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Hello Skipj,

It looks like Norm built a 'Clancy' class boat, thanks for the tip.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

In my traveling around the web I have come across a fellow doing a podcast about wooden boat, the podcast is called "Hooked on Wooden Boats". He is very enthusiastic about them, each episode he interviews one, or more, similarly passionate wooden boat enthusiasts. Anyone interested in wooden boats may want to check Dan's website out www.hookedonwoodenboats.com


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Phil Bolger is (was-deceased now) surely the most creative boat designer around. His books are: "The Folding Schooner" (no kidding, a 30 footer that really does fold); "30-Odd Boats;" "Boats With an Open Mind;" "Small Boats;" and "Different Boats." Some of his designs are really strange, but many are works of art. They range from astonishingly simple to extremely elaborate. He is always considerate of those with modest skills/experience, and modest budgets. Even if you never build one of his boats, the plans are a real education. Unlike most designers I have known, he actually explains why a design is the way it is, often in considerable detail (unlike others, whose designs are invariably "ideal, all purpose, etc." Bolger also never fails to point out the limitations of his designs, as well as the virtues.
If you are interested in trying a kit boat, look into Pygmy Boats, located in Port Townsend, WA. Check out Pygmy's website. His "Cosine Wherry" is a 14 footer for rowing and sailing, though ill-suited to outboard power. Stitch and glue construction. I have build 5 or so of their kayaks, and recommend them highly. By the way, CLC has you use copper wire for the stitching part, and leave the wires in. There is absolutely no benefit in doing this, and real disadvantages, as you'll discover when you go to tape over the wired joint with fiberglass. Pygmy provides soft iron wire, which pulls out easily after you've glued the seams. Much superior! Once the epoxy has cured, the wires contribute absolutely zero to the strength.
Another design to consider is the old San Francisco Bay Pelican, a short (12'+) wide (almost 6') balance-lug rigged dory-sampan. They were developed for racing on San Francisco Bay (a rough old spot, with a lot of wind in the summer), are enormously seaworthy, will easily accommodate a family of 4, and can carry an outboard. Google the name and you can see several pics of them in action. There is also a 16' version with a cuddy cabin, but when you increase the beam proportionately, too broad in the behind for my taste.
A comment about sailing: it's wonderful sensation, given the ideal wind and not too gnarly a sea state. Keep in mind that sails aren't cheap, though you can make your own. A poorly made (bedsheet, blue tarp, etc.) sail may make you wonder what all the excitement is about.
If someone tries to talk you into a sailing dory, make the sign of the cross while backing away from that person. He is not a friend. Bolger explains why.
Good luck in your search! We'd all like to see pics of the launching.


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## DanLyke (Feb 8, 2007)

Mark, our "shipping water" event happened when we were sailing on a fairly large lake with a lot of waterskiers and power boats, we still had a fairly short tiller so we had most of the weight further back in the boat than it should have been, and we were trading places just as a waterskier went by. Took a little water, got the heart rate up, but were fine.

As I think I've said in one blog posting or another, next time we'd built it with an inch or two more freeboard in the stern, but the longer tiller has also moved us forward in the boat which gives us more freeboard in the stern.

I like runswithscissors suggestion of the Pelican, that looks like a neat little boat. I will add to his comment about homemade sails: The GPS tells us we've had our Summer Breeze up to 6MPH or so with a green/brown tarp sail. I've since made another sail with 6mil clear plastic that's nicer 'cause it's lighter, but I do need to play with the shape again. So, yeah, nothing like a well made sail, on the other hand with some exterior carpet tape and sheet plastic you can play with all sorts of shapes and arrangements quite quickly, and then maybe have someone make it in sailcloth.

Also, you should know up-front about the "2' longer" rule: You'll always think your life will be perfect if your boat were just 2' longer. Always. 14-16' seems right for a family with 2 adults and 2 kids. Also, I'd like to find a way to build in a little more floatation to our hull, if you start with a design that's got a lot built in then when your kids hit their teenage years and think capsizing is fun you'll have something that'll support them through that.

My uncle built a Sailfish when he was a kid, I learned to sail on it, and during the summers it may still be on the beach at his lake house in upstate New York.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Thank you for the link to the last portion of your blog. Is that about the upper size limit for a stitch and glue?

I don't see any reason for there to be a limit at all to the size upon which a stitch and glue construction could be used. It is identical to any hard chine construction except for the material from which the chine is fashioned.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Sam Devlin down in Olympia, WA, builds stitch and glue to "over 32 feet." His website is well worth a look. His boats have a good reputation, and his designs have been featured in "WoodenBoat" from time to time. The FAQs on his website are a worthwhile read. He sells plans and kits. He agrees with John Lockwood of Pygmy Boats that the wires should not stay in the layup, as CLC prescribes (I have no idea why they persist in this). Once when I built one of Pygmy's kayaks, I had a seam come out not quite flush for a foot or so. Removed the wires so I could correct this, and couldn't budge the planks. Had to saw the joint apart before I could fix the problem. I can tell you from my experience crashing my Pygmy Coho in big, gnarly surf that the stitch and glue boats are just as strong as any other construction.
I mentioned the S.F. Bay Pelican in an earlier post. I had one of these, and had a lot of fun with it. Cruised out to the San Juan Islands (Puget Sound) on several occasions. But they like quite a bit of wind. If your zephyrs are typically under 7 or 8 knots, sailing will be a bit sluggish. I had it out in winds of at least 25 knots with no problems. They do go slowly against a head sea, on account of the pram bow, but do better than you might think up wind.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

Before I went with the Weekender I started this blog-asking about the plans and people gave me feedback. It might be a good place to look since from it there are many links as well-there are something like 133 replies…with some good links and lots of ideas on what to consider: napaman boat plans forum

Also consider checking out stevenson's projects--they have many small boats too…here is there NON-pocket cruiser page (then you can click on pocket cruisers). I am in NO way trying to convince you to go this way. But the project plans come with a good step by step dvd which has been really helpful.

Two forums that have been helpful to me are:

BYYB (Backyard Boat Builders-many Stevenson builders--but not all…): BYYB FORUM

Messing about in small boats forum (lots of designs): messing about

As far as a PDR--I really looked at the Oz Racer--it is a cool little boat…almost went with it…but if my memory serves me correct I went with one of the free versions on duckworks (there are MANY free versions on duckworks website) Because I decided that since the goal of the pdr was cheap, fast and easy I went with the free plans which have been fine--actually the PDR website-while not a forum, has HOURS and hours of ideas, instructions and articles…so here is a link to the official PDR site: pdracer.com

Looks like there are LOTS of great ideas…I recommend two magazines too-while not exactly what you are doing they both have lots of good info…

Small Craft Advisor (not all wooden boats--but all small boats)

Wooden Boat (this is like the "FINE WOOD WORKING" of boat building)-not all small craft--but all wooden…power and sailing…this is the good dreaming magazine…

They also put out an annual small wooden boats you can build magazine…that might be fun to look for! I have a couple copies…and will look through them…

If I have any regrets (and I am still happy with my decision--I will finish my boat!) its that I did not start smaller…get something done, sail it around…get it on the water…play…then from there I would have a better idea of what boat I would want…

A small cheap boat--would be perfect to start with because it ensures everyone is on board with the idea…if you cant commit a few weekends--you know where you stand on the bigger more expensive project…( at this point I am refering to kids/other family members/friends who promise to help now)...

I am enjoying following this one…its encouraging me to get moving again on my boats…

Matt


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

And one more thing: a couple good books I read about amateurs building/re-building boats:

"Sloop"-about a guy in New England who rebuilds an old family sloop that has to be build down to the planks…

And: "In the year of the boat." About a writer that decides one day to build a boat…he ends up going with a Sam Devlin design and gets it done in the end…so you get to learn a bit about stitch and glue…since he is in seattle he gets to meet Devlin who helps him a lot.

Ok…good luck…I will be watching!


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

and then there is the rest of the population whose life resonates on 2 factors both being the best 2 days of your life

the day you bought a boat

and the day you sold it


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

i have never experienced the later unless upgrading to a better version of a previous life

: ))


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

Good luck on building a boat. You must have a lot of patience. I heard a story about a guy who built a boat in his basement. He had to tear the door opening bigger to get it out.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Runswithscissors
Wow there is a lot of good points in you post! I'm finding that there is a whole 'nother language to learn. The rigging terms have me baffled, I'm going to have to get some books on sailing lingo. I really appreciate your view on Bolger and I will chase down some of his titles.

Can you give me the Cole's notes version of Bolger's distaste for the dory?

The tip about a quality sail is something I will have to keep in mind as this journey progresses.

Is CLC's leaving the copper (expensive!) wire in related to their 'patented' stitch and glue process?


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Hello Dan,

Thanks for explaining the shipping water event. This is exactly the kind of meaningful experiences I think I'll need to make an informed choice…and to sell the whole boating thing to my family. Thanks again for the advice and sharing your experiences. LJs rock


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Hello Paul,

I guess I was thinking only about the videos showing small builds and thought the process wouldn't be scale up well. My ignorance of the boat building realities is enormous  I intend to learn a whole lot about boat building here on in.

Mark


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Hello again runswithscissors,

32 feet…I really underestimated stitch and glue. I taught some of the history behind the 'knots' terminology back when I taught cartography a college in Winnipeg, not its hitting closer to home and I can see it being more relevant to me. Your relating the escaping story reinforces Paul's comment about boat building tolerances, and drives home to focus on a good final boat.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Here's one to keep you going Mark. 



Keep your eyes on the prize.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Aaaarrrggggg Matt you're killing me posting cool links. I hold you somewhat responsible for this boat building obsession I am experiencing

I remember when you first set out to make your Weekender, I remember thinking that's the coolest thing's. I am really conscious of your experience balancing building with every day demands. As much as I'd like to start a 'Whitehall' or a 'Skerrie'. I think I'm going to start with something like your second boat and learn the ropes (both literally and practically). I'll look around for the small craft magazine.

As I recall you've moved recently, did the boat project move successfully with you? Do you like the new area?

Thanks for the pointers to the books.

Mark


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Hello Moron,

I heard the same sentiment from a fellow who'd just bought a fiberglass tree boat and was waiting for a mechanic to resolve some transmission problems.

Mark


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Knothead2,

I don't know about the patience part yet as I've not yet begun to build, but I am enjoying these preliminary explorations.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Wow, thank you very much Paul! That is an awesome focus point, that video is one I think I'll play any time I need to lift my spirits.

The maple leaf on the hatch covers speaks loudly of your craftsmanship.

I just watched it again, inspiring. I won't be building anything quit so grand as the Friendship, but will certainly try to follow in your wake with the attention to detail, fit and finish and building the best boat (however big this first go around) I'm capable of building.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

Sorry for the inspiration-LOL…actually its me who needs it these days! Yes…both boats successfully made it on the move--I just realized I should have taken some picts on loading the boat--both boats fit inside a truck with stuff packed all around it…it was pretty amazing getting it all in…

Again--I want to be really clear--I dont want to sway you in any direction-I got some good advice on LJs and I am glad I got all the info I did…this is one thing you dont want "buyers"-or is builders "remorse"...so in the end you have to take all the advice and make a decision--the good thing about starting small is that you can learn A LOT in the process and then apply that to a bigger boat--and in the end the bigger boat goes faster and smoother…

The move is fine…we came to help my mom…so I have my up and down days…but I should have time from here on out to build (but I have been saying that for 2 months)...

I will keep watching this post…ALSO--consider getting in some boats…maybe a local yaught club has some ideas…

Matt

PS-PAUL…great video…looks fun…


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Mark: Bolger doesn't object to dories at all. He has designed several, in fact, the best known being the "Gloucester Light Dory," a plywood dory that he redid several times with slight variations.You see these everywhere along both coasts. I have rowed them, and they are a sweet rowing boat, quick and very good in a chop. Bolger objects to putting sails on them, because they are so tender. No sail carrying power, and dangerous in experienced hands. You can fix this by rounding the sides out, until you end up with a Swampscott dory (read about them and see designs in Gardner's "Dory Book." But, says Bolger, by the time you get done, you no longer have a true dory, indicating that the dory wasn't a good place to start with if you' wanted a sailing boat. The only exceptions I am aware of are the St Pierre dories of Nova Scotia, which to go sea regularly, and according to lore I've heard, have never drowned a fisherman. But they are very big dories, 25 feet long or more, heavily built with a one-lung "make and break" engine, and have a low, modest sailing rig.
By the way, I agree with the comments about starting small. Everyone wants to go bigger and bigger, until pretty soon you're just pouring money in and not having much fun. The most fun I've had in boats has been in small boats, meaning low-powered (if motorized), not all tricked out with varnished teak and bronze and chrome, trailerable (don't know what mooring fees are around your area, but they're sky high here (Pacific NW)) and with modest accommodations, if any. Bolger has much to say along these lines, also. And he has designed gold-platers for those who demanded them, too.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Hello Matt,

It is amazing what can fit in a moving van. I'm thinking of starting small just to get the experience both building and sailing. I think it will be easier to sell to Jenn that I want to spend a couple of hundred buck to try out sailing than to convince her that I need to spend a couple of thousand on the first try at sailing. I hope you Mom is doing well; we've had my Mom out here for the last couple of days and the kids have really enjoyed her visit.

I think it will be a bit of a challenge finding other sailboats around here. I am keeping my eyes and ears open though.

Mark


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Hello runswithscissors,

I have to admit that having read about Doris and their utility in the maritime provinces has peaked my interest. I didn't realize that they were not really meant to be sailing craft.

I've no idea what, if anything, mooring fees might be around here. Boats around here seem mainly trailered to the lake and then home again afterward. There are probably 'marinas' on some of the bigger lakes. More exploring for me to do


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

I'm beginning to more fully understand your problem now Mark.
..... You need to move to B.C.
I do understand the lack of sailboats and marinas however, I grew up in Sask.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

Paul--I get the guest room FIRST! Actually maybe we need to challenge-whoever finishes his boat first gets sailing lessons with the master in BC!


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

I've been to BC a couple of times, it is a great province! I did find the interior ( around Golden) to be a bit claustophobic…I guess the far distant horizon is hardwired. Paul I can't imagine anyone choosing the beautiful scenery and coastal climate of BC over the starkly flat and forbidding cold of Saskatchewan

I don't know Matt I don't even have my plans yet, you've already made a bunch of sawdust! It would be awesome to see 'Friendship' up close and personal though!

Matt are you far from San Diego? I may be headed there in July and it'd be cool to see your boats, you might even talk me into helping you sand or something.

Mark


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

I am a little over an hour to San Diego-but it depends on which part of San Diego…and of course in Southern California you always have to know drive times depend on traffic…

Check this out:

http://www.pdracer.com/boat-building/752-sailing-czech-republic/


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

here is the annual Wooden Boat Magazine I was talking about-you can get the 2013…and if you like it go back and get older ones…

http://www.woodenboat.com/small-boats-2013


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Matt, some pretty good links. Watching these videos really gets me wanting to build. I think I may make a scale model PD Racer just to test out the process and to help pass the winter. The magazine wooden boats looks really interesting, I'm going to try finding it on a newsstand here.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Don't end up like me. I have always wanted to build a boat. I never have and probably never will. Please do yourself a favor and go and build a boat. If you want to do it you owe it to yourself.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Building a model of a full size boat you are contemplating is an excellent idea, if you can get ahold of plans. At one time boat building mags actually had the complete plans, and you could build right out of the article. These are all old publications, and may be hard to find-including "The Rudder," "How to Build 20 Boats," "MotorBoating," which had sailing and rowing boats, not just motorized, and Field & Stream's "Boatbuilding Annual," which ran during the 50s and 60s, maybe 70s. There were others too. I used to own most of those. Bolger's books include the necessary data, including offsets (dimensions) and scantlings, and you can build right out of the book. Very unusual nowadays, as the designers want you to order large scale plans (actually a very good idea), and don't give anything away. Even so-called "study plans" can cost quite a bit. If you decide to try a model, hobby shops have plywood down to about 1/32", which is excellent for planking. I usually used red cedar cut to sizes I needed on the table saw for the other parts-keels, chines, sheer mouldings, seats, etc.You can even pre-bend these materials with heat before fastening to the model. A hot stove pipe works extremely well. Don't burn yourself. Nice thing about a model is you get to see how everything goes together, and how the boat is going to look in 3 dimensions, without a great commitment of time or money. And you have an attractive display for the mantle or your man cave.


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

Sounds like you are excited! I bought the latest Woodenboat Magazine and (seperately) the annual "small boats" addition today…on my first perusal there are not as many small sailing craft-but you may be interested in some of the motor boats too--some good ones…

As far as a model for a pdr…I would spend time on the pdr site--you will learn everything there--including links to several free plans on the duckworks site.

The home page of the www.pdracer.com has all the intro questions and many links…I now just go straight to the "sitemap" page which is like a great table of contents…

You can spend hours on the site! And then from there you could be building within days--this boat is meant to build her quick and have fun…(I sound like a hypocrite here)...

People build these things not for the intention of keeping them on the water forever…but its a fun start…

Part of my problem is that i did learn quite a bit from my weekender build that I am now building her too strong…and with too much care…

That is the problem with being a woodworker before a sailboat builder--you go on the boat building blogs and they dont talk building with the goal of craftsmanship the way we do--their goal is to get her on the water and sail, period…whereas we want perfect at every turn…

For my pdr i am ready to go to slaptastic building…


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