# Wow, talk about misleading ratings



## intelligen (Dec 28, 2009)

The 12A rating potentially makes sense because a 15A circuit is only rated for 12A continuous load. I guess the 9A limit must come from the fact that they apparently use 12A breakers and/or wiring in the switch itself. But either way it seems like they're unnecessarily crippling their product and annoying customers in the process.


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## philba (Aug 23, 2014)

Yeah, having an electrical engineering background, I get that there are different ways of rating devices but when they just use a number and no qualifiers, it borders on irresponsible. Most people don't understand the fine points and will select a product by comparing numbers. But, at the very least, the outside of the box should reflect the inside. Since packaging is easier to change than plastic molds, I'm surprised that those two were out of sync. The iVAC managers tried to save a few cents and pretty much killed their reputation in my mind.

And the down rating to 9 Amps is probably due to either a defect in the components they used or they switched to a different component that couldn't handle the spec'd current. (it's a 25% derating, not 20) Either way, it tells me they don't have their act together at all.


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## dgage (Apr 8, 2010)

Thanks for letting me know about this. I have the DGC i-Socket Autoswitch but I'm annoyed that I can't use the vac without a tool being on. I was thinking of picking this up but I don't think I will now since I have a Jet DC-1100 and I think it would pull too much current on the 110 circuit.


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## ScottC (Apr 6, 2010)

Did you mean to give it 5 stars? I don't need one, but thanks for the heads up.


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## scarpenter002 (Sep 16, 2007)

I have this exact switch box. It has worked for the most part with my shop vac and various hand tools. I typically use it with my tracksaw, sander, or router.

I do have an issue with the tool receptacle. The contacts on the inside are not tight, causing the tool to loose power from time to time. With a product at this price point, I would expect better. I would give the product 4 stars.


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## philba (Aug 23, 2014)

Yeah, the 5* was my bad. I intended to not rate it because I haven't used it but guess it defaults to 5 if you don't do anything,


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## Tim_H (Sep 30, 2012)

I have had this switch for 2 years and have never had a problem with it running the shop vac and either table saw/router/miter saw/belt sander. I would give it 4 stars.


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## Buckethead (Apr 14, 2013)

I appreciate this topic. It's angering when we learn we might have been misled, intentionally or otherwise, but since you shared your discovery, I had the opportunity to gain some insight into what these numbers really represent.

I'm familiar with it on generators (output claims on box) so continuous load makes perfect sense. Breaker rating makes sense too. A motor might have a 15A capacity, but if the breaker or switch wiring only allows for 12A, the motor is effectively a 12A motor. Even this seems like good design, being that capacity exceeding use seems prudent, but it would be nice if they used these numbers to convey information rather than to make a product seem more powerful or overbuilt than it really is.


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## djang000 (Jul 24, 2012)

I bought this 1 year ago. I used it with my shopvac and sanders and stuff like that. I soon as I started using it with my table saw (ridgid r4512), the unit stopped working…

I created a dedicated outlet for my shop vac now with a 3-way switch so I can turn it on and off from my main working areas in the shop. Cheaper and I now it will work 'till I don't anymore 

sam


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## Grumpymike (Jan 23, 2012)

Back in the day, oh so long ago, I was an electronics tech. As we repaired the Products to the component level, we learned that the imported components had a very different tolerance rating than the U.S. made components. In example, a .01 mfd. capacitor @ 600 v. made in the US would run all day at 600v.but the imported ones would take 600v. ONCE.
So why do we have all of those inflated numbers?? As Buckethead said "* it would be nice if they used these numbers to convey information rather than to make a product seem more powerful or overbuilt than it really is*

This switch will run the shop-vac very well, BUT I plugged in my 2 hp. dust collector and my 2 hp. table saw and ZZZaap! it was toast. I agree that I over loaded it, but the store took it back and I bought a different controller.


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## philba (Aug 23, 2014)

GoG, I'm not sure the reliability decline is due to foreign components but rather a trend towards general cheapening of all products. I'm pretty sure you can get good components from foreign manufacturers. Like I said earlier, I suspect they revised the product design to reduce cost (aka value engineering) with cheaper components and wound up with a faulty product. Instead of fixing the problem they just put a sticker on it. They lost me as future customer.


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## CyberDyneSystems (May 29, 2012)

> Yeah, the 5* was my bad. I intended to not rate it because I haven t used it but guess it defaults to 5 if you don t do anything,
> 
> - philba


Ironic, given that this reviews title was about misleading ratings!


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## changeoffocus (Dec 21, 2013)

I'm wondering if you contacted Woodcraft on this concern and, if yes, their reply?


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## gko (Jul 8, 2009)

I was a little worried about the current rating for my setup. Table saw rated at 15 amps and dust collector at 11 amps. But I put an amp meter and got the following readings.
Table saw 6 amps at idle.
Table saw 11 amps cutting 2 by piece of wood. Varies with feed rate but peaked at 11.
Dust collector 7 amps connected to table saw.

Have been using the switch for about a year and haven't had any problems. I've cut 4 by wood and haven't had problems. Knowing the saw limitations I cut 4 by a little slower making sure the saw doesn't sound like it's bogging down. Previously had a smaller DC and the single AC line switch but cutting 2 by with both running on a single AC line and the saw bogged down quite a bit. Installed 2 AC lines, 3 total, bought this switch and everything is so much better.

But in the end it is quite misleading to put different ratings on the packaging. I did see the difference between the package 15 amp and the 12 amp on the unit so I was forewarned but mine didn't come with that slip of paper warning of the 9 amp rating.


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## philba (Aug 23, 2014)

@GKO, current ratings on motors is an area that should be simple but isn't. The main problem is that motors pull a lot more current at startup than they do when running. As you've seen, the amount of current also depends on the load. I bet your table saw will hit close to 15A at startup for maybe 1/10th of a second - you'll never catch that on your amp meter. Similar startup inrush on your DC. I'm guessing that iVAC has been getting a lot of returns from people who plugged into larger DC and fried the unit. I've certainly seen a number of reports of that on WW forums. Simply the wrong way to deal with the problem, IMHO.

Note that they really want you to use their contactor for any thing over 9A. The contactor is a high current relay so it won't have the same problems. It's actually a good solution but I'm not purchasing any more iVAC products.

@Bob, no I haven't contacted them. If I decide to return it, I will certainly talk to them about the issue. But it's not going to be anything more than a sales guy who will just give me a refund. Maybe if they get enough returns something will happen. I've tried to talk directly to companies about quality issues in the past and gotten nowhere. It's just a waste of time. For example, I tried this with Olson bandsaw blades and got nothing but silence. They react better to postings like this since it can actually affect their sales. (as opposed to one guy complaining directly to them.) And, if they ignore these postings, their business gets damaged.


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## DustyGuy (Jan 9, 2015)

I worked for as an installer for a commercial millwork company last summer to pick up some extra cash. They had several of these that we used to cut down on dust on the work site, most often with either a 10" Ridgid table saw or a 12" DeWalt miter saw. With the table saw we had to use the 2 input plugs that are supposedly for the larger amp pulling tools. What happened though is that when ripping heavier hardwoods, it tended to trip the little, built in breaker, and once that happened a half dozen times, the thing was useless, as it would often trip just by turning the saw on. I suppose this might be ok just using on a router table or sander, but I wouldn't recommend it for anything heavier. If anyone knows of a better quality product out there, I'd be interested!


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## timbertailor (Jul 2, 2014)

Great review and a problem I have encountered myself when shopping for a remote switch for my HF 2HP DC.

From other research, the HF unit pulls 14 amps on start up.

I have yet to find a 110V remote switch that will handle this amperage SAFELY!!!

If anyone knows of one, I am all ears!!!


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## philba (Aug 23, 2014)

Look into using a contactor. That is basically a relay that allows switching larger loads. The iVAC guys have one that plugs into a lower power switch (and then you plug the high amp unit into the contactor) or you could build one yourself with a high power relay if you are at all electrically inclined. However, I would not recommend buying any iVac stuff because I think they are scum of the earth.


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## AHuxley (Apr 22, 2009)

I was struck by the title and upon reading the review the phrase that ran through my mind was "Wow talk about an uninformed review". I was further struck by the fact the review had been up so long and nobody had sorted out the mis-understanding.

First, I have no personal lab tests to back this up so I am going on the UL et al testing for my points.

The 12 amp rating on a device makes perfect sense, when a device is plugged an outlet in the US (I think Canada as well) the plug has to be rated at 125% of the rated device current at nominal system voltage, so the iVac would have to fully rate at 15amps to get a UL listing for 12 amps, so it is a 15 amp device UL rated for 12 amps, not exactly plain language but the receptacles prevent you from plugging in a 20 amp device into the unit.

As for the 9 amps, is is listed as the maximum running current of a dust collector plugged into the iVac. This doesn't impact the use of a shop vac just a high start current dust collector. iVac's engineers obviously understand a dust collector is usually a hard start device that has a significantly higher current draw well past the "normal" inrush current peak required for most devices in a shop one would connect to this switch. It was mentioned one can't see inrush current on an ammeter which is true if you have a cheap multi-tester but most quality (lower mid-level or better) multi-tools can capture inrush currant readings, often the these numbers are staggering to one that isn't used to seeing them!

Bottom line this device would have to be built and function correctly 15 amps to get 12 amp UL ratings. In the case of a hard start dust collector they are pointing out that 9 amp continuous running current draw may well need the full 15 amp rating to start up, going over that with a dust collector MAY trip the internal breaker, I would guess some would and some wouldn't depending on the motor, size of the impeller and impeller design so that is safety speak for people that don't know the actual numbers for their collector. Basically, any tool should be fine as long as it has a 15 amp plug and you don't really bog a tool down if it is rated at 15 amps, on the vacuum side dust extractors or vacuums with 15 amp plugs will be fine (most vacuums are actually over-rated much like the horsepower rating), dust collectors rated higher than 9 amps continuous shouldn't be controlled by this device due to their higher start up current demands compared to the high speed small impeller vacuums. In the end this switch works well for its designed use, bringing "Euro" dust extractor tool activation to the lowly "American" screaming shop vac but has further current restrictions when using it with a dust collector and they have options for these more current hungry devices.

Basically, it is frustrating to see someone call people "scum of the earth" when they put a notice with the device to prevent potential end user ignorance (demonstrated here) regarding electrical ratings to cause them to use the device improperly.


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## philba (Aug 23, 2014)

Sorry, but I totally disagree with your comments. You have a right to your opinions but when they advertise X, it needs to be able to perform to X, not X-Y. Or, X-Y-Z. I understand that you are saying to get a certain rating (12A), they need to be able to handle 15 peak. I am actually quite familiar with this. However, they should not advertise 15 Amp. In the absence of the sticker, they should have had 12A listed on the package. They clearly had problems and so they further derated the device to 9A. With the sticker, the packaing should have said 9A. Packaging and documentation have to agree. Claiming something on the package that they take back in the documentation is outright fraudulent. I stand by my comments.


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## 203610 (Sep 8, 2015)

Good day Philba, I have used the title ****************************** however you have referred to me as Scum of the Earth.
I designed the iVAC Switch Box.
First of all I have to agree that some of the information on the iVAC Switch Box may be confusing to a customer with minimal electrical knowledge. I apologise; however all of it is valid to some degree.
The unit is fitted with 15Amp NEMA plugs and receptacles; however it has 12Amp information printed on the unit. As another respondent has stated this is a UL requirement that we have to meet. If you go to the web site on the following link you will see a detailed explanation. http://www.ivacswitch.com/default.action?itemid=65
The next aspect that I agree is confusing is the reference to a Running Current of 9Amps. The iVAC Switch Box is designed to control Dust Collectors up to 1HP or Shop Vacs up to 5Peak HP. It so happens that for these machines the Running Current is 9 Amps. We added this statement, since in certain situations customers have connected 1.5HP dust collectors that take 14Amps running current.
The information on the outside of the Unit Box states the 1HP and 5Peak HP limits limits.
We will change the label on the next shipment of product to remove the 9Amp statement.
I can assure you and other readers that we have not used lower cost materials and in over 45,000 units the return rate is less than 1%.
If you or any of your readers encounter problems with the product I encourage you to contact 
iVAC Technical Support [[email protected]] You will not get the runaround.

******************************


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## deppiz (Sep 8, 2015)

> I was struck by the title and upon reading the review the phrase that ran through my mind was "Wow talk about an uninformed review". I was further struck by the fact the review had been up so long and nobody had sorted out the mis-understanding.
> 
> First, I have no personal lab tests to back this up so I am going on the UL et al testing for my points.
> 
> ...


What a detail explanation! The inrush current of a dust collector could 5 times of the running current!


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

That's pretty much most induction motors.

And I pretty much get it's designed for vacuums unless you want to pay more for a contactor.


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