# Problems with charcuterie board splitting



## BillGo (Oct 8, 2020)

I am new to making charcuterie boards. I made a few during the lock down and they were well received as gifts, so I started making them and giving to family and friends.

One of the first I made was a combination of red oak and cherry… I use Tite Bond II, from a new gallon, that I bought this summer. There is some end-grain, and side grain glue joints. Both have failures. The construction was done in NY, and delivered and used in southern CA. They were used over Thanksgiving, and cleaned by hand (no dishwasher), not soaking. They were finished with mineral oil and and bees wax. See the pictures below…


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## MPython (Nov 30, 2018)

It looks like you have a cross grain issue rather than a glue issue, although Tightbond III would be a better glue choice than Tightbond II. It's waterproof - or close to it. Tightbonbd II is not.


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## BillGo (Oct 8, 2020)

I thought the same thing for pictures 2 and 3, but there are some bad issues in 1 and 3 that do not involve end grain gluing. I was also wondering if I was over-tightening the clamps and squeezing out too much of the glue so I end up with too little adhesive, or if the red oak is not absorbing the glue as well as the pine I have used before…

I noticed that Tightbond II was water resistant not waterproof. My son assured me they were not soaking the boards when this happened. I have bought some Tightbond III for the remake. I just want to try to address every possible thing I might have done wrong before the second try…


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

I also think it's an example of wood movement.

First three pics are all shrinkage. Fourth one is a little less apparent. Could be cross-grain movement or joint prep issue.

Different humidity ranges in NY vs. SoCal.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> It looks lime you have a cross grain issue rather than a glue issue, although Tightbond III would be a better glue choice than Tightbond II. It s waterproof - or close to it. Tightbonbd II is not.
> 
> - MPython


+1. That cross grain design is going to fail every time. The reason is that the narrow pieces won't expand and contract along their length, but the other boards will across their width. There's nothing you can do to stop it. No amount of finish will seal it well enough to prevent the moisture changes that cause the wood movement.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I thought the same thing for pictures 2 and 3, but there are some bad issues in 1 and 3 that do not involve end grain gluing. I was also wondering if I was over-tightening the clamps and squeezing out too much of the glue so I end up with too little adhesive, or if the red oak is not absorbing the glue as well as the pine I have used before…
> 
> I noticed that Tightbond II was water resistant not waterproof. My son assured me they were not soaking the boards when this happened. I have bought some Tightbond III for the remake. I just want to try to address every possible thing I might have done wrong before the second try…
> 
> - BillGo


I'm not saying you don't have some issues with your glue job, but what everyone is trying to tell you is that your cross-grain design will fail no matter how well you glue it. You need to get rid of that cross piece and just glue up a board.


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## jdh122 (Sep 8, 2010)

I think that in every picture the problem is cross-grain joinery, and would have failed no matter the glue that was used. It's a hard lesson to learn: wood expands and contracts seasonally across its width but stays the same across its length. So in the first picture the top (rounded) part needed to shrink but couldn't because it's glued to the perpendicular piece, so it cracked to release the tension and shrink. Probably basically the same forces in pictures 2 and 3, except that in those cases the endgrain to longgrain joint was weaker than than the splitting point of the wood, so the glue failed to allow the shrinkage.

Edit: Rich must type faster than me. Beat me to it.


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## BillGo (Oct 8, 2020)

OK, Thanks for the clarification. That makes sense. I was asked to make this based on a picture on Pintrest. They probably took the picture before their board split apart… Thanks for the great comments and explanations.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> OK, Thanks for the clarification. That makes sense. I was asked to make this based on a picture on Pintrest. They probably took the picture before their board split apart… Thanks for the great comments and explanations.
> 
> - BillGo


LMAO, Pinterest is the site for one day wonders. Build something quickly and take a pic immediately and post it to get "likes" before it self destructs the next day.


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## BillGo (Oct 8, 2020)

While I have you here, maybe a couple more questions about other things I have made in my ignorance of this issue that I might need to take back… For this handle, it is made from the same wood (red oak and cherry), and the wood grain is all going length-wise. I was worried about it for turning purposes, but I guess not for gluing. Still different wood types, which I assume could expand and contract at different rates? Do I need to be worried about these joints doing the same thing?


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## LesB (Dec 21, 2008)

Red Oak is notorious for its movement as humidity changes. If you wood was acclimatized for New York humidity and then sent to "dry" southern Calif. that only made it problem worse. Also the oak you used appears to be flat sawn which also aggravates the situation. Riff sawn would have worked a bit better.

Some people stay away from (red) Oak for food utensils because of the open grain and a possibility of bacteria growing in the pores. Actually the Oak tannin has an natural antibacterial affect so if it is kept clean it is not considered a health hazard. I'm sure I will hear some disagreement on this from someone.

I think your turned handle will probably be OK unless you take it to a very dry climate like Arizona. The shortness of he pieces limits the amount of movement. People successfully makes segmented bowls all the time with out much problem….although my sister once left one of my segmented bowls in the sink and full of water…that was the end of it.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

End grain to end grain is pretty weak in that handle, unless the tang goes all the way through?


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## BillGo (Oct 8, 2020)

The tang does not go all the way through. It screws into a threaded insert in that first section. I do not plan to do this again, but was curious as to how much trouble this will be…


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## BillGo (Oct 8, 2020)

One more, which is sort of an in-between… This is another charcuterie board, and another that I copied off a picture online. This is osage, walnut and maple. because of the curve of the maple, there is sort of an end grain situation going with the maple.will the result of this, also be in-between (good and bad)? Will it tend to pull apart at the tip where the end grain to maple tend to approach 90, or as you reach the tip and there is less wood to move, will it hold together?


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## bugradx2 (May 7, 2018)

> One more, which is sort of an in-between… This is another charcuterie board, and another that I copied off a picture online. This is osage, walnut and maple. because of the curve of the maple, there is sort of an end grain situation going with the maple.will the result of this, also be in-between (good and bad)? Will it tend to pull apart at the tip where the end grain to maple tend to approach 90, or as you reach the tip and there is less wood to move, will it hold together?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bet you'll be ok on this one probably not splitting but time will tell for sure. You're correct that the tip of the board may cause an issue. The grain appears to all be running in generally the same direction. It's very hard to tell where the grain is in the maple though. If you want to minimize the grain moving in the future you might tweak the design to have the maple stripe end up more in the center and make the board a little more symmetrical. That's a cool design, don't stop making something inspired by it for sure.

Nothing wrong with pinterest ideas, just fix the stuff in the design that needs it as you go. We all get "I saw this, can you make it" requests all the time!

I would agree on titebond 3 vs titebond 2 comments above also. You'll be ok using up what you've got but titebond 3 is the better bet in the long run.


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## BillGo (Oct 8, 2020)

Thanks for the comment! The grain in the maple is straight down the piece. It was a very think piece that I just mashed into the curve when I glued it. I did pick up some Titebond III I will use the Titebond II for other stuff from now on. I really appreciate all the comments.


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## bugradx2 (May 7, 2018)

Post up some photos of your boards and projects too! Would be neat to see what you're building.


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## northwoodsman (Feb 22, 2008)

It looks like perhaps too much clamp pressure was applied and the glue was forced out. How tight did the joints fit before you glued them and clamped them together? If there was any gap at all you can force it together with clamps but it WILL fail eventually. I like the leaf baord.


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## BillGo (Oct 8, 2020)

@northwoodsman I was thinking the same thing. The boards did fit well together, but I think I was over tightening the clamps. I have not done very much large clamping like that before, and I was trying to get consistent glue bead coming out across all the board areas. Also, the round one, I was trying to go thin, and I think I made it too thin (9/16"), which shrunk the surface area, and probably contributed to the problem.


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

Out of my own curiosity and noobness, could a similar look be achieved with an inlay? Say a 3/4" thick board out of oak with a 1/4" deep dado cut and filled with cherry? I've done this on a few box lids before but then again I didn't ship it to a difference climate. Went from Missouri to Iowa and still holding up as far as I know.


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## BillGo (Oct 8, 2020)

@sansoo22 that is a great question that I will defer to the experts. To one-up your noobness… How are inlays attached? Are they pressure fit, or are they also glued?


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

+1 on the inlay. Dado a shallow cut across the board an simply fit in a size-matching piece. This keeps the oak portion as a continuous board front to back.

A more "proper" way to do this would be to cut the same dado with angled undercuts (a dovetail groove) or if there is room, a T-slot (like many table saw miter slots). This holds the similarity profiled cross wood inlay in place, yet still allows the oak to expand and contract freely (the cross piece is only glued in the center 1" or so)


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

The wood is going to move. Having a fixed cross grain inlay is going to cause the same sort of problems as the original design.

The dovetail insert mentioned above would eliminate failure, assuming it was glued only at one end¹, but you will have the issue of the other end not being flush with the edge of the board most of the time, since it will stay the same length and the board will expand and contract. That's not a really big deal, just something to be aware of.

¹ Gluing in the center would be ideal, but I'm not sure how you accomplish that since the glue will spread as you slide the insert in place. Skipping the glue altogether and simply pinning it with a dowel would work too. If you didn't want the look of a dowel on the surface, you could come in from the back and not drill all the way through.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

Good catch Rich 8^) Brain fart on locating the glue spot (definitely on the end).


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Good catch Rich 8^) Brain fart on locating the glue spot (definitely on the end).
> 
> - splintergroup


You had the best idea to do it in the middle, getting there was the issue. Right now I'm favoring pinning it, either through, or just into the back of the board.


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

Not sure I will explain this right but was curious if you could pin the inlay like bread board ends with exposed pins? The center pin is a tight fit and the other pins you would elongate the holes in the oak to allow for movement. Then I could put in 3 or 5 pins for aesthetic reasons. *BillGo* had mentioned a "whiskey barrel" look in his project post so I thought maybe a few more pins, even if not structural, would lean into that look a little more.


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## Peteybadboy (Jan 23, 2013)

Billgo, welcome to LJs

I think you got good advice on wood movement and I agree. Although I will be posting a coffee table when done that has cross grain that has lasted for 25 years.










All solid wood. Top is Curly cherry framed by curly maple. Biscuits and glue holding it together. NY to S/W fla. and no issues. So go figure??


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## BillGo (Oct 8, 2020)

Wow Petey! Such spectacular curliness! I wonder if the addition of the biscuits, and the larger pieces were able to overcome the conflicting expansion/contractions… I think I also had a couple other factors working against me: the change from NH which is cool and humid, to LA which is hot and dry, the other thing is that I made the round board thinner than the rectangle one just to make it more different. I think both of those made it fail faster…


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## BillGo (Oct 8, 2020)

I forget who was talking about the inlay idea, and wondering if the board I saw online might have used that approach. Well, online advertising being what it is, I am now being followed by an ad for just that type of board. Check it out:









I am not sure this is the one I was looking at before, and just didn't notice, but this one only has the horizontal boards on one side, so it looks like it is an inlay. Good call!


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

> While I have you here, maybe a couple more questions about other things I have made in my ignorance of this issue that I might need to take back… For this handle, it is made from the same wood (red oak and cherry), and the wood grain is all going length-wise. I was worried about it for turning purposes, but I guess not for gluing. Still different wood types, which I assume could expand and contract at different rates? Do I need to be worried about these joints doing the same thing?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Should never be a problem. Turners do it all the time. Now the boards is another matter altogether. Some good advice. One thing I am curious about is the joinery. I used a dado slot to join the lazy susan below together with glue. Now it is two pieces of the same species and all but even if it did move the joint should remain "together".


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## BillGo (Oct 8, 2020)

@woodbutcherbynight, I have to admit I did not use any kind of joinery at all in the handle. I just glued and clamped it. Probably should have thought about that more…

When you use different types of wood like in the neck of the lazy susan, do you worry about wood grain orientation? How important is that from a turning perspective? do you try to work with a cross section of larger stock, instead of adding wood in "cross grain" which would be easier to find?


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Bill, you might want to do a test with some scraps to see for yourself how strong end grain glue joints like those on your handle really are. With side and face grain glue joints, the wood will often fail before the joint but with end grain, I suspect you could easily break it at the joint.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

> @woodbutcherbynight, I have to admit I did not use any kind of joinery at all in the handle. I just glued and clamped it. Probably should have thought about that more…
> 
> When you use different types of wood like in the neck of the lazy susan, do you worry about wood grain orientation? How important is that from a turning perspective? do you try to work with a cross section of larger stock, instead of adding wood in "cross grain" which would be easier to find?
> 
> - BillGo


For items of that size I just glue whatever pieces I have together. If you just glue edge to edge it will work. I tend to experiment with joinery as I make a blank. Anything that gives more surface area for more glue to attach to will improve the joint verses end to end. As far as turning end grain and such, I tend to be careful what woods I mix together. You don't want a really hard wood right next to something very soft. Will feel and leave a bump as you turn.

Here is a set of blanks I made up for a fellow woodworker.


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## BillGo (Oct 8, 2020)

> Bill, you might want to do a test with some scraps to see for yourself how strong end grain glue joints like those on your handle really are. With side and face grain glue joints, the wood will often fail before the joint but with end grain, I suspect you could easily break it at the joint.
> 
> - Lazyman


@lazyman, great minds! I did have an extra blank for that handle, but it was so short (2.5in) I could not put much force on it, and I could not break it. This was for a cheese knife, so I figured it would be OK. I may try it with larger pieces, or drill a hole in it so I can insert something so I can apply more torque…


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## bugradx2 (May 7, 2018)

I see you posted a couple projects, thanks for doing so.

As far as the inlay is concerned or any perpendicular wood additions. It would be a bit of a pain to set up but you could always orient the grain on both types of wood to match. It may mean making a little panel or getting creative with a glue up but it can be done. It would certainly help mitigate the expansion issue.


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## BillGo (Oct 8, 2020)

You inspired me to post projects. Mine are little, not nearly as involved as many in this forum, but I like posting them and getting the feedback. I can post them here without worrying about who will see them. Many of my projects are gifts, but the people I am giving them to are not in this forum, so it is safe! 

Good point about orienting the wood grains in the same direction. I only chose my approach because I am such a wood mizer, or out of convenience. You are right that it could certainly be done in a way that orients the grain in the same direction.


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## Jim Jakosh (Nov 24, 2009)

Hi Bill,
If all the wood is going the same direction and not being glued to a piece going across that direction, you should be okay because all the movement is side to side and not along or with the grain.

The nice thing about using Titebond III is that it is WATERPROOF and not just water resistant which is very important for utensils and boards that will be washed with water. Titebond also makes a product called Thick and Quick that is a good reliable glue for end grain pieces being blued together.

Cheers, JIm


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