# Using sports logos on woodwork.



## ndillon (Jul 21, 2009)

What kind of rules need to be followed if I want to sell items featuring a sports logo? Especially in regards to using College sports logos. Thanks.


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## shopdog (Nov 9, 2008)

I'm not a lawyer, but those logos are copyright protected, and should not be sold. At one time, I scrolled NY Yankee logo fridge magnets that I was selling at my stoop sale (an urban version of a yard sale). I was warned by a passerby that it was illegal, so I ended up giving away the rest to friends.


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## Julian (Sep 30, 2008)

If you sell just a few here and there, you should be fine and under the radar of the corporate machine. Just don't go advertising it. I think the worst that will happen to you if you get caught is a cease and desist letter from a law firm.


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## Cherylv (Aug 25, 2009)

Colleges have a reputation for being very aggressive about protecting their logos. With the funding shortfalls that most of them are having now, they might be even more protective.


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## Ger21 (Oct 29, 2009)

You need to contact the copyright owner(s) and get their permission.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

YEP, and thier permission is normally a percentage of sales.


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## Padre (Nov 5, 2008)

I'd get the permission of the copyright holder. Companies are very aggressive lately about protecting their copyrighted stuff. I had a friend who wanted to make a bat for his son with a big red B on it, he contacted the Red Sox and it took him 6 months to hear back.


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## Julian (Sep 30, 2008)

Well hello SPAMMER!!

Hey Martin where's the report tab so we can report the spammers?


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## FirehouseWoodworking (Jun 9, 2009)

Nicholas,

Unfortunately, what has been said is largely true. Most of college logos are copyrighted, and your use of them commercially may cause some issues. Some colleges are more vigorous than others in enforcing their copyrights. And some are downright vicious!

KU is one of the latter. They have taken a local tee shirt shop here in Lawrence to court twice to the tune of a $600,000 judgment, I believe. That's a lot of tee shirts! And some of the tee shirts just said "KANSAS" on them! Like I said, VICIOUS!

I hate to rain on your parade like this, but "forewarned is forearmed!"

Good luck!


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## Kerux (Oct 7, 2007)

I concur with the license thing. I've made a few projects as gifts but I'm not sold any.


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## richardchaos (May 12, 2017)

SO this IDEA i came up with is not such a good idea?


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

It's not a copyright protecting logos, it's a trademark. You need to get the permission of the trademark owner, which in the case of a college sports team is the university itself (or some subsidiary company, most likely).

If you make something for your own personal use you have a shot at a fair-use defense, but if you're *selling* pieces containing a trademarked image, you will most certainly lose in court.


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

i think should answer a lot of the questions

https://www.clc.com/Licensing-Info.aspx

http://www.ncaa.org/championships/marketing/ncaa-licensing-program-faqs

"All products must be approved by the NCAA and the Collegiate Licensing Company. Failure to obtain a license or approval from the NCAA and CLC would be grounds for the seizure of all non-approved merchandise bearing the NCAA's marks. Vigorous legal action will be taken against violators, which could result in jail time and numerous fines."


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

Even if you license the trademarked logos, there are usually very specific rules about how they can be used and displayed. (They may not take kindly to logo-ed urinal cakes for example.)

Failure to follow the rules is also subject to penalties.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

Make a bunch of anything with the logo on it. Post it online anywhere, it doesn't matter. Give it about 30 minutes and check your order email for the cease and desist notification that is inbound. It's that simple.


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## DevinT (Mar 25, 2021)

Sell it on RedBubble, which doesn't seem to care about infringement (aside: I take no responsibility for repercussions).


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

Wow. Old thread!

Selling Trademarked items online may get you a cease and desist order, but from what I've seen, there are no trademark enforcement officials walking the craft show beat. That s#!t is everywhere. Around Chicago, you can get Green Bay Packers to Indianapolis Colts and EVERYTHING in between.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

Yes, bitten once again by a zombie thread.


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

Yes. Old thread, but still a topic of interest, apparently.

I have seen a trick used by an ebay seller. Buy wrapping paper and cut out little pieces and glue them on and laminate or finish over. I don't know if it would pass in court, but it was an interesting approach.


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## Woodnmetal (Jul 24, 2021)

An old thread but I will add my .02 in. 
We all know how certain things get past the shipyards and into retail stores around the world. Remember Rolex, Louis Vuitton, the list goes on…. made in… Well you get it. 
Although I do agree with Controlfreak….
Just change some hole diameters and locations, throw slightly different rads on and your good to go. No harm, no foul since it won't line up with the trademark.
IMHO, You have to do what you have to do. You need to eat, raise a family and pay the monthly bills in this crazy world.
Just delete the emails 30min after you post the item you are selling. Then wait until someone comes to ring your door bell. Then you can set them straight…. It may look the same but its a little different.

Maybe I'm just too old to care anymore, well wait… Nope, I've always been that way.


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## Chenier (Mar 15, 2019)

> Just change some hole diameters and locations, throw slightly different rads on and your good to go.


Nope.

I spent quite a few years defending a trademark. Derivatives of the trademark are just as protected as the original. "Derivative" can be kind of a loose term, but it's meaning will be for the jury to decide, not the (alleged) infringer.


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## Woodnmetal (Jul 24, 2021)

> Just change some hole diameters and locations, throw slightly different rads on and your good to go.
> 
> Nope.
> 
> ...


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## JCamp (Nov 22, 2016)

It wouldn't be legal. I've heard that the owners of the logos usually send out letters telling you to stop. If you continue they'll go to court. You can probably get away with it for a while if you'd want to try it. My wife loves Disney stuff and she was friends with a love of little businesses that would make stuff using Disney material and sell it as "Disney". Most got letters telling them to stop, they did sell online though so they were easy find


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## Woodnmetal (Jul 24, 2021)

I wouldn't be legal but, 
Shhhhh…. I had both my "Covid " shots. 
2 different manufactures, but were hoping for the best outcome on that.


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## Kudzupatch (Feb 3, 2015)

If you are the holder of the Trademark or in my case Copyright and you make your living selling those items you will find nothing funny about people STEALING your work and selling it.

Those people laugh at you too because it is so hard to defend or get it stopped in most cases.

But it is no different than someone coming into you wood shop, stealing a piece of furniture you built and then selling it as their own.


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## Wood_smith (Feb 12, 2010)

Logos can also be copyrighted, they're considered a work of art, at least in Canada.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

I'm thinking now that so many teams are changing their names. The original classic logos might be free of charge and most folks would prefer them anyway! It's worth checking into.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

No irony there, when a college is a government funded entity belonging to us, but not quite as absurd as our higher courts copyrighting their decisions (yes, it's a common habit for them to copyright our public records). No wonder we have fifty-one tools for the people to bind public agents down.



> Colleges have a reputation for being very aggressive about protecting their logos. With the funding shortfalls that most of them are having now, they might be even more protective.
> 
> - Cherylv


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## PCDub (Sep 24, 2017)

Here's some ridiculous news on trademarking:

"...[Ohio State University] has successfully registered a trademark for "THE." The trademark, which was initially applied for in August, 2019, took three years to get approved and will apply to any application on clothing and apparel."

<...eyeroll…>


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

My life is pretty uncomplicated right now. Last thing I want to have is my name, on the chit list of NCAA, NFL, MLB, you get the idea.

I do love people with no idea about how trademarking works, offering free legal advice online though. 

Almost as good as going to the joke of the day site.


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## Wood_smith (Feb 12, 2010)

This website explains the differences between copyrights and trademarks.
Logos are mostly trademarked and with Google, etc. these days, there is no "flying under the radar"

"https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/small-business/trademark-vs-copyright"

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/small-business/trademark-vs-copyright


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## leonmcguire (7 mo ago)

Logos can also be copyrighted, they're considered a work of art, at least in Canada.

-Lloyd Kerry; creator of the Kerry-All Pouch, https://www.worldcupsc.com/


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## Wood_smith (Feb 12, 2010)

I know, I have copyrighted a logo in Canada


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