# Kreg pocket joiner device



## ferstler (Oct 5, 2008)

I recently saw a lengthy video ad for the Kreg pocket joinery device.

I have been using biscuits for years and one thing the ad did was disparage the entire concept of biscuit joinery, dowling, and tongue and groove. I can see the point and the Kreg device looked very competent in some areas. Of course, they made the various projects look easy as can be. It rarely works out that way with any project I have tried.

Anyway, I would greatly appreciate some comments here from anybody who has had experience with that Kreg joinery technique, or other brand pocket joinery devices, too, or has talked to others who have had either good or bad luck with the approach.

One thing I did think about was what to do when the specialized drill bit wears out. If you sharpened it with a Drill Doctor machine its length would change slightly. Also, is it so esoteric that you must purchase replacements only from Kreg?

One other point involves the screws, which the ad indicated were specialized Kreg designs. Can other brands be used? Seems like that should be OK.

Howard Ferstler


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## Zuki (Mar 28, 2007)

I use quite a bit of pocket hole joinery, but not with Kreg . . . I have a cheaper knockoff. I have not seen the video you mentioned, however if the project looked easy they probably were. This type of joinery is a breeze and it quite tough. I will be upgrading to the Kreg sometime in the future.

I believe that bits may be available from LV. If not they should not be overly expensive. If you change the length of the bit the jig should be able to compensate. I have only cracked off one bit in the last 3 yrs.

Yes other screws can be used, however I find that the non-Kreg are not that much cheaper than the Kreg branded screws. Keep in mind that they do come in a couple of lengths (for various thickness of wood) and in a coarse thread (for soft wood) and fine (for hard wood).

Hope this helps.


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## Catspaw (Dec 15, 2007)

You can buy all that stuff at any big box store…(now.) The bits are $20.

Pocket joinery is pretty good. There are a few quirks that you have to address when using them. The screws are the screws. You could use drywall screws….which work. But the brand named ones are really better screws. It takes alot of pocketholes to wear one out.

I have one of the simple ones and in the shop we have a pockethole machine and clamp table.

BTW, screwing into end-grain is worthless.


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## BobChapman (Oct 2, 2008)

I use both biscuits and pocket joinery. I think that the Kreg pocket joinery devices are some of the handiest and most useful joinery techniques there are. I use them with and without glue. They are mechanicallly strong without glueing and very strong with glue.

I would use the Kreg screws [coarse and fine] and the Kreg drill bit.


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## northwoodsman (Feb 22, 2008)

The pocket joinery video does make it look easy. You could do almost any joint in the video using many other techniques however. The advantage to screws is you can glue the joint, screw it together and move on. In most cases you don't have to wait for the glue to dry. In pieces I make where I want to practice or hone a skill, or make something appear like I really spent a lot of time on it, I don't use screws that you could find by flipping the item over. As for sharpening the bit, that won't make a difference. The bits are available any place and are actually very good quality. The screws are reasonable. You can get various sizes for various applications with a fine or a coarse thread. They are square drive so you won't strip a screw head ever again. You can also get various plugs to fill the holes as well. I learned a few tricks from the video included in the kit that I use in other applications as well.


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## TheSerpenteer (Sep 21, 2008)

I can tell you that somehow the Kreg jig was one of the first few woodworking devices I bought. Not sure how I happened on to it at that time either. It is a fantastic tool, after a little practice, it is extremely easy to use.

I'm as amateur as it gets, but I really like this jig. I've used it for a lot of things, not just trying to build furniture. And, it's kind of fun.


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## CedarFreakCarl (Apr 21, 2007)

Biscuits don't really add much strength to a joint, but are great for alignment purposes such as edge gluing a table top. I dont' use them for everything, but pocket screws are wonderful for a quick and strong joint as long as you use the right screw type and length. And, like Catspaw says, screwing into end grain is worthless.
All in all, it's really affordable and versitile at the same time.


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## coloradoclimber (Apr 7, 2007)

Regarding biscuits, I know they're not for adding strength but rather for alignment.

But, I was tearing down a plywood carcass the other day, biscuits and glue plywood edge butt joint onto plywood face. Probably about the worst joint you could think of. No dados, just a plywood edge against a plywood face, some number 20 biscuits and glue. I had to break the carcass down with a 2 lb sledge. And when I did the joints pretty uniformly tore the plywood apart rather than busting the biscuits.

I understand that a solid wood long grain to long grain glued joint is stronger than the surrounding wood and that adding biscuits does not add strength. But using biscuits for plywood to plywood adds a heck of a lot of strength.


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## Chipncut (Aug 18, 2006)

I have the Kreg pocket rocket, which is the cheapest one, & does the same thing as the fancier ones.

I've built quite a few things with it, & I'm well satisfied with it.

I bought face frame screws at Grizzly, & saved a bundle.


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## Bigdogs117 (Jun 26, 2008)

I have the Kreg jig and I use it anytime I can. It is easy, quick & effective. I have only had it for five months, but when I am doing any kind of joint, I will always be looking to use it when I can first before considering an alternative.


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## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

One thing you MUST do when using a Kreg jig is to make sure that your wood is square.
The screws hold the pieces together so tightly that if your pieces aren't square, neither will be your joint.

Another tip: if you are going to paint a piece and the holes will be visible, then just use a 3/8" dowel and some glue to fill in the holes. Trim them flush and away you go. Don't spend the money for those pre cut plugs.

The first time I ever used them was on the stand for the harpsichord I built. Steady as a rock.


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## mhawkins2 (Aug 18, 2008)

I have used the Kreg jig for several projects and found it to be very useful.

It is quick. No clamping needed just add some glue and assemble and keep going. And so far it is extremely strong. That being said there are a few things to keep in mind.

When using pocket holes to assemble a cabinet case for instance, you need to guard against the work shifting as you tighten the screw. You do not have any dados or rabbits to hold the pieces in position. I usually clamp them in place very firmly before I tighten the screws. The shift is worse if you use to much glue.

Also 3/4" plywood isn't exactly 3/4" so for some joints you will need shallower pockets.

Yes you can use any pan head self tapping screw, but the Kreg ones aren't that expensive and I like the square drive.


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## KregRep (Mar 20, 2009)

Fantastic to read through these comments, guys. Thanks for all the support. The entire team at Kreg would just love to see all of these positive experiences posted here.

Anyway, I just wanted to log-on and direct the thread-starter to a link of the video he saw on TV, in case he or anyone else wanted to see it again. We've posted it online on our website at www.kregjig.com, and on YouTube at 



.

If you enjoy following Kreg stuff, you might also want to check out these links:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kreg-JigR/54208550837
http://www.youtube.com/kregtoolcompany
and my personal favorite…
http://kregjig.ning.com/

If anyone has any questions or something I can help out with, I'd be glad to be of service!

Good luck, and good woodworking!
-KregRep


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## Boardman (Feb 7, 2008)

Someone mention using panhead screws from various sources. Definitely use them as opposed to drywall type screws or any conehead. Drywall screws won't pull the pieces together as tightly and can split the wood you've drilled the holes in. The panhead stops the screw penetration and pulls the other piece tight.

Dollar for dollar it's the best thing I've ever bought in terms of what you can do with it. You'll find lots of applications beside face frames.

I've seen the drill bit available from sources other than the BORGs for as low as $8.


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## GuyK (Mar 26, 2007)

Festler if you look at the project section and see the Country Hutchs, I built them with Kreg pocket joinery. Works great and I even used pocket joinery on the Ox Cart in some places.

*Nice to see the Kreg people know where to find the woodworkers of the world*


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## oldskoolmodder (Apr 28, 2008)

While I love the Kreg system, I guess it's a bit more pricey for a reason, they are much better than the competition (in my eyes). I needed a stationary pocket hole system instead of the more portable unit I have (R3) which you have to use clamps with, and not having the money to put out for the $100+ unit from Kreg (K4 or above) at the moment. Let me tell you going with the $30 General Tools pocket Jig kit may get you by, but it's definitely NOT a Kreg quality unit. The bits aren't as sharp, leaving the wood ragged around the pocket hole. I'd say that if you're going to spend $20 for a new Kreg bit, then look at the Mini-Jig kit that comes with a single hole unit and drill bit. At least you know you'll get a good bit and if you ever need a thinner jig, you'll have it.

I've used different brand screws, so you don't have to use reg, but if I'm around Lowes anyway, it's easier for me to pay $3.50 for 100 screws than going other places to save a few cents.


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## Woodchuck1957 (Feb 4, 2008)

Thats alot of money for something thats made of that much plastic, and I feel the same way about the plastic jobsite saws. It's rediculous.


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## ND2ELK (Jan 25, 2008)

I used to dowel all my face frames together. Since getting the Kreg jig, I use it on my face frames. All the joints are glued but with the screws it is a lot faster and no clamps are needed after the face frame is assembled. Also used it to glue up solid drawers fronts. I am sure there are other uses the more I use it.

God Bless 
tom


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## Betsy (Sep 25, 2007)

It's not a lot of money if it gets the job done. Pocket holes have been around a long time. Kreg just improved how it's done. I think it's a great tool and I use my quite a lot. I have never worn out the plastic parts or the toggle arm - nothing.


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## TThomas (Dec 16, 2008)

*Hey KregRep.*..How about a discount for us LumberJocks looking to buy the jig…I'm looking at getting the master system, K3 I think….looks like I can use one of these in my woodworking and construction business…


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## John8059 (Jan 17, 2009)

I agree with just about everything said above. It is a great tool to have in your arsenal. The Kreg (or Kreg-style) screws are in my opinion so far superior to traditional wood screws that they are well worth any additional cost. When practical, I use them in other applications as well.

I can't disagree more with whoever said (above), "Biscuits don't really add much strength to a joint, but are great for alignment purposes such as edge gluing a table top….". It SOUNDS so ridiculous to me I am going to start a blog to see what other LJs think about it. As far as its relevance to this blog, there can be no question about the Kreg system being faster, easier, and ample, but it is not ready to replace biscuits and I think a good biscuit joint is much stronger because it involves a lot more surface area in the joint.

Someone else above claims, "I know they're not for adding strength but rather for alignment". But then he continues to write providing evidence in direct contradiction to what he had just written, "But, I was tearing down a plywood carcass the other day, biscuits and glue plywood edge butt joint onto plywood face. Probably about the worst joint you could think of. No dados, just a plywood edge against a plywood face, some number 20 biscuits and glue. I had to break the carcass down with a 2 lb sledge. And when I did the joints pretty uniformly tore the plywood apart rather than busting the biscuits."

Do you think this guy was just trying to nicely tell the other he didn't know what he was talking about? That is what I think from my woodworking adventures.


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## Boardman (Feb 7, 2008)

Frankly Cuz, I'm somewhat taken aback by the vociferous tone of your comments, and the totally un-needed comment about they guy "not knowing what he was talking about."

When biscuits started showing up, and Norm Abrams went absolutely NUTS over using them, the were the "hot item." Today, after daily reading a half dozen forums for over 6 years, the prevailing wisdom is that they ARE just useful for alignment, not to even mention the issues with biscuits telegraphing thru the wood.

Adding strength to the joint? Not really. If you're talking about vertical pressure on the parting line, what stregth could a small insert of softwood biscuits provide? If you're talking about hooking up oxcarts to each piece of the joint and having them try to pull it apart, I imagine the biscuits would provide a millisecond more time before they're able to pull it apart.

With todays adhesives, the strength of a well prepared plain butt joint of two boards is stronger than the wood itself. I know because I've personally tested the theory by trying to beat 2 pieces apart, and the wood always gives first. I've never had a just plain glue joint fail. If it does, you did something wrong.

The "extra gluing surface" a biscuit provides is sitting INSIDE of the two pieces and that extra surface has little if anything to do with the joints strength.


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## oldskoolmodder (Apr 28, 2008)

I'm anxiously awaiting the scathing blog about how Biscuits are great for joint strength…

If someone wants to basically waste hours waiting for the glue to dry on a biscuit joint, rather than choose a pocket hole, then by all means go for it. Time is money, even if it's not on a project that is making you money. A persons' time is supposed to be valuable, biscuits don't make a persons time worth as much, just because they think a joint is stronger because they used them.

Think of the time and trouble you go through just to get one cut into wood for a biscuit. In less than 1/4 the time, you can drill a pocket hole, and put in a screw, no glue needed. Joint strong and complete. You put a biscuit in, and where's the holding power without the glue and clamping involved?


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## kolwdwrkr (Jul 27, 2008)

I'll chime in with my opinion, and it is only an opinion. I may take heat, may not. I strongly suggest the pocket screw system, whether it's from kreg or someone else, doesn't really matter. Personally I have a kreg pneumatic pocket boring machine. Makes the process quick and easy. I do have a few of the hand held jigs though too for use on a job site. But I wanted to stress what I use them for. I use them for cabinetry construction or general woodworking. This would be for face frame construction, attaching the carcass to the frame, making frames for wainscotting, etc. When it comes to furniture though the kreg is out the window. It is a cheap method of construction, whether it works great or not. There's something about a screw holding a table together as opposed to a mortise and tenon that bugs the crap out of me. It seems as though the builder got lazy, thus making the table seemingly cheap. And, if you look under the table you see the holes, or the plugged holes. This type of joinery is great if it will never be seen. Obviously mechanical fasteners are just another part of making everything "production". It goes hand in hand with cnc machines, and nail guns. Saves money, increases production, etc. But it won't make you a better craftsman. Make your garage cabinets, kitchen cabinets, etc with this joinery. Not your chairs and tables. Pretty soon I'll see a Maloof style rocker with ebony pocket screw plugs. 
For screws, there are several companies that sell pocket screws. You don't have to buy the expensive name brand Kreg screws. Wurth and QuickScrew are a few. Louis and Company is a good place to buy screws in bulk, but you can get them from Woodworkers Supply in bulk too, but a little more expensive. I'm pretty sure there are 100,000 other places to get pocket screws. There are things to know about the screws too. You can't just go buy a box of screws and expect it to work perfect. There are different threads for different materials. HiLo, Course, Standard, Turbo, etc, as well as the different guages, 6 and 7 being the most popular. There are pan heads, fillister heads, and round washer heads that all work and are common for face frame construction. There are different drives, phillips, square, and combo. I use the fillister head with combo drive, 7 gauge, with HiLo threads, with a Type 17 point. The Type 17 point is a sharp slotted point that acts as drill to eliminate pre drilling. When using pocket screws you MUST use good clamping because when you screw the project together the piece is likely to pull out of flush. This is because the hole is canted. This is especially noticeable in face frame construction. Kreg offers a face frame plate clamp that can be affixed in a table to make face frame assembly easy. The accessories seem endless from kreg. It is a good company and I recommend them. I just hope that people continue to learn the traditional ways like using mortise and tenon, biscuits, dowels, whatever, even if they use pocket screws more frequent.


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## tooldad (Mar 24, 2008)

My dad wanted to pay him for a project he asked me to build, but I did it as a gift. Finally we were at Menards and I said, I want to try this system out, but $100 is a bit of a gamble. He bought it for me. Loved it and never turn back. Have even upgraded to the foreman Kreg system for semi-production, however a bit pricey at $800.

*ONE NOTE!* I am not a Kreg rep however *you need to use a specific screw designed for Pocket Hole Joinery. * There are fine threads and coarse threads for the appropriate types of woods. Also all of true pocket screws are self tapping. The BIGGEST thing about a pocket hole screw is that the threads do not go all the way to the head of the screw. This allows the screw to pull the joint tight. A pan head screw or a drywall screw does not have that capability.

You can get screws from Fastenal, Grizzly, and Kreg. Those are the 3 that I have purchased from. I am sure there are other sources also.


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## John8059 (Jan 17, 2009)

Boardman - I am quite surprised and sorry that you were so offended by what I wrote. I did so without doing any research of my own and I based what I wrote solely on my own experiences and expectations. I challenged a comment stating that biscuit joints don't add strength and that they are only for alignment purposes. I thought this wisdom was being offered as if it were common knowledge and accepted fact. I would no sooner agree with a statement like that than I would agree with the statement that all blondes are stupid and are only good for - well you know.

Well I see now that Carl left himself a little wiggle room in his comment and that it was not so definitive as I and the next blogger after Carl read into it. Carl - I humbly apologize for accusing you of not knowing what you were talking about. I hope you (and Boardman) can forgive me?

Having done my research, I am convinced that in some cases blondes can be quite intelligent and make excellent friends, wives, mothers, sister, and even woodworkers. In some cases, they may be only slightly smarter than stupid but they are none the less smarter than stupid. Personally, I don't prefer one hair color to another so I am not going to get into a debate about which one is better here. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. If the project demands that a brunette is needed, I'll use one. If I need a blonde for alignment and a redhead for strength, I'll go so far as to use both of them at the same time.

Finally, allow me to retract what I wrote about a biscuit joint being much stronger because it involves more surface area. That was as ridiculous as suggesting that blondes are all are stupid! I meant to write that with no other glue surfaces or fasteners involved, it is my opinion that the holding power of a single biscuit would surpass that of a single pocket screw (without glue) solely because it involves more surface area. So if the consensus is that a biscuit itself adds an insignificant amount of additional strength to a joint (at least for with-the-grain joints), then where does that leave the pocket screw? Does it really make any difference after the glue dries? Now before I stick my foot in my mouth again, I am going to make some sawdust while I have the chance.


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## Boardman (Feb 7, 2008)

Nice post Cuz…you got my respect.

I should say the biscuits are useful and add strength to any end grain gluing, or to joining plywood. In those 2 cases they're a good thing.

I think pocket hole joinery (you'd be surprised how long it's actually been around) is one of the best and fastest ways to build face frames. Like many others, after I got mine I found many alternate uses too. I think biscuits became the rage primarily due to Norm Abrams, who actually had a vested interest in promoting them, probably because of sponsorship or contributions from tool suppliers.


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## jack1 (May 17, 2007)

I've used them for years and really like the way they work for new construction as well as mending old furniture. I had a client ask if I could fix his heirloom 8/4" oak table top which had had 1/4 of the the top literally crack off. It had sat in a barn for about 8 years this way. I took the broken off part to my shop, put it on my jig, drilled 5 pairs of pocket holes on the cracked edge and returned to the scene of the crime. With some tite bond III, clamps and an adjustable stand, I screwed it back together using the longest kreg screws I had (2 1/2 coarse). The match was not perfect so I used a little filler after the glue dried and the owner sanded it down. You couldn't tell where the break was and it was so solid that no matter where you tapped the tabletop, it had the same sound and rebound.
Also, if you buy the screws in quantity you save quite a bit. Bits can be gotten easily and they do last. Check out Amazon for prices. There is also a special plug cutter available that will cut the angled plugs from any species.


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## jack1 (May 17, 2007)

P.S. the kreg system is definitely cheaper than the Festool Domino thingie and seems to hold it's own in torsion tests.


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## Woodchuck1957 (Feb 4, 2008)

Biscuits, dowels, screws, they all have their place to be used, I don't think one makes all the others obsolete.


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## johnpoolesc (Mar 14, 2009)

i bought my kreg for faceframes.. way faster then mortise and tennon.. i wouldn't use it where the joint was not hidden but i wouldn't trade mine for anything.. i bought the "master" kit, if i had to do it again i would just but the 3 pieces i use. i don't use my biscuits much anymore. i bought it for table top style glue ups, but with titebond 3 or "monkey" glue.. you don't need additional strength,


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## KregRep (Mar 20, 2009)

@tooldad:
"ONE NOTE! I am not a Kreg rep however you need to use a specific screw designed for Pocket Hole Joinery. There are fine threads and coarse threads for the appropriate types of woods. Also all of true pocket screws are self tapping. The BIGGEST thing about a pocket hole screw is that the threads do not go all the way to the head of the screw. This allows the screw to pull the joint tight. A pan head screw or a drywall screw does not have that capability."

This is exactly right. Depending on the species of wood you're using, the thickness of your material, and a few other variables, you'll need to adjust the type of screw you're using. We've just completed an online interactive chart which actually demonstrates this very well, and can help anyone who isn't quite sure on which screw to pick:

http://www.kregtool.com/screws


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## thequietscotsman (Apr 2, 2009)

if i had to start over again i would have bought a tablesaw and k3 jig. 90%of my woodworking needs would have been covered. Mcfeelys or Grizzly sell pocket hole screws.

kreg is as advertized


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## jack1 (May 17, 2007)

Tooldad, Menard's? You must be in Minnesota… We don't have them out here in the warm lands. Darn. ;o)

Seriously, try AMAZON for Kreg stuff. Save lots…


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## dustyal (Nov 19, 2008)

After viewing the video's and reading reviews here and elsewhere (I hadn't come across a bad review) I am waiting for delivery of my Kreg K3 from Rockler. I need to build my first face frame cabinet. Seemed like an expensive tool for a novice to buy but I rationalized that a novice needs something simple. Hope it works out as well as expected. It also seemed easier to store when not in use than a biscuit joiner…

I really appreciate all in info consolidated on this site.


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## sIKE (Feb 14, 2008)

Al,

Once you get it, get it all setup and practice on several test pieces until you get it working the way it should work. It is a simple an straight forward process but setup is most important. 30-45 minutes later and you should be an expert. Then you want to buy some of the accessories … its a conspiracy!


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## Knuckles (Mar 17, 2009)

Kolwdwrkr - ditto. Thanks for saving me the typing time. :-]


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## SnowyRiver (Nov 14, 2008)

I use Kreg. I also use biscuits And sometimes mortise and tenon type joints. IMO it just depends on what you are doing and how much time you have. They all work well. I tend to use the pocket joinery for face frames. I use biscuits for edge gluing boards for panels. Mortise and tenons work good for face frames and other applications, but they are time consuming. I have never had a report of any of them coming apart. With todays glue, they all are mighty strong, but pocket joinery is the fastest.


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## lovinmrv (Jan 9, 2010)

This forum is providing a wealth of information. Thank you, all.

I am unsure as to whether I want the K3 master or the K4. The K4 appears to have a more durable clamp, where the K3, with more attachments and doo-hickeys, appears to be a bit less, err, robust, shall we say?

My need is for a kitchen build out….face frames and carcasses.

Any and all comments are welcome. thx,

PS, I'm also going to make a concrete counter top…that should be exciting…


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## Pdub (Sep 10, 2009)

Many years ago, I bought a cheap pocket hole jig (not Kreg). It worked pretty good, I thought. When my boss wanted a display cabinet (see my projects), I convinced him to let me buy a Kreg. Since it was company money I made sure to get the clamp also, which I don't have with mine. I realized after using it that my cheaper version isn't as good. I will be upgrading to the Kreg soon.

I will say that I use biscuits quite often. I use them for all of my flag cases when I glue the angles together. They are end grain joints and the biscuits add a good bit of strength as well as allignment. They are not indistructable as I have proven on several occasions, but they are better than just glue.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

I have had the K3 for a couple of years now … I have always felt I got my money's worth. It gets a good deal of use.

I have looked at the K4, and though I like the way they redesigned the clamp assembly and guides, I don't see much reason to replace what I have.


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## Builder_Bob (Jan 9, 2010)

The Kreg system is not just for face frames and the like, I built this with only pocket screws. No glue on the joints.

I'd be lost without pocket screws.


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## happyjack (Feb 20, 2009)

K3 is the greatest! When I built my kitchen cabinets last year I used it for allmost all of my joinery. I built the pantry about 1/2 inch to tall. I could not stand it up in the kitchen. I was smart enough not to use glue on the faceframe. I used only the pocket screws. I removed the faceframe then stood the cabinet up and put the faceframe back on with the same pocket screws and it fit just fine. they really saved my bacon on that day. They are still holding tight after more than one year.


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## jack1 (May 17, 2007)

This blog has been going for a while… I still think this is one of the better ways to build.


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## jack1 (May 17, 2007)

Dane, I've considered the upgrade but like you, the old one works fine and the cost… eh.


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## KregRep (Mar 20, 2009)

Great conversation, LumberJocks!

Builder_Bob is exactly right, the Kreg Jig can be used for much more than just face-frames! If you want to get an idea for just how wide of a variety of projects you can build with the Kreg Jig, I would recommend checking out some of the photos here: http://kregjig.ning.com. Thousands of different Kreg Jig projects for your viewing pleasure.

lovinmrv, the Kreg Jig Master System (K3) is the top of the line Kreg Jig. To my knowledge, we've never had a single jig returned because of problems with the clamping mechanism. The unique design of this clamp is particularly useful for clamping down on large panels where you can't reach over the workpiece. If you want the top of the line, that's the way to go. If you want to save a few bucks, and still have a great deal of functionality, the Kreg Jig (K4) is a great alternative.

You can find more in the way of comparisons of these two Kreg Jigs, here: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kreg-JigR/54208550837?v=app_2347471856#!/note.php?note_id=55868294901

or just visit www.kregtool.com for more information and see videos of each model.

Woodchuck1957, FYI - all of our Kreg Jigs are made from glass reinforced nylon, which has proven to be incredibly durable over the many years we've made them. Again, I don't think a single Jig has been returned due to a broken body. In related news, here's a video of a Kreg Jig being run over by a truck.  




dustyal, how do you like your Kreg Jig Master System so far?

Thanks again for all of you Lumberjocks, and your support for the Kreg Jig! Don't forget to swing by and post a few photos of your jig/projects at http://kregjig.ning.com if you get a few spare minutes!


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

I went totally back to dowells last year and got rid of my dewalt biscuit joiner which I grew to dislike for various reasons.Alistair


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## spaids (Apr 15, 2008)

Ok this one is a long one and I have not read all posts so forgive me if this is a repeated statement.

I use both biscuits and pocket hole screws. They each have their place with me. Now as far as any information making it appear that pocket hole joinery is super fast and super easy… it really super fast and super easy. There are only two things that are a must for pocket holes to work out for you.

1. You really should try a quality and correctly design screw for your pocket holes. They are different for a reason.

2. CLAMPING! You MUST have your joint firmly clamped when driving in a pocket screw. They are self tapping wood screws and they are being driven at an angle. As the screw drives in it can shift your piece slightly and then make its hole.


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## Uncle_Salty (Dec 26, 2009)

Love the Kreg Jig. I let my students watch the Kreg Cabinetmaking video AFTER they have built a project with traditional mortise and tenon joinery. The first question they always ask is "Why didn't you let us use the Kreg jig instead of the Mortise and Tenon joint?"

Of course, I answer that they need to understand all joints; after all, they are students! But I also explain that I currently only have one Kreg jig set, and they would spend all of their time waiting for the jig.

I had a student a couple of years ago who built a mission style coffee table and two end tables out of white oak and the Kreg jig. No glue!

Don't think I could ever get that student to build anything without the Kreg jig again!


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## lovinmrv (Jan 9, 2010)

Kregrep,

Thanks for the clarification re model numbers…intuitively, i would expect the K4 to be an upgrade over the k3…you might want to chat with your product marketing people about that.

i think i've got it….measure twice, cut once, drill once, clamp tightly once, screw once, and have a beer!

...repeat til you'r out of wood or out of beer…

Thanks…


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

*Spaids* speaks the truth.

Some time ago, I bought Kreg's big assortment of screws … never have had a problem. The big box down the road stock's Kreg's screws, so I'm never far from a place to refresh my supply.

Last year, I picked up good buy on 2 of Kreg's right-angle clamps last year, and they are really worthwhile.


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## LateNightOwl (Aug 13, 2009)

I have used Kreg jigs for years. I currently use the Master System and a good assortment of Kreg Clamps. They are great for building quick & sturdy (as opposed to quick and dirty) projects around the house. I've even used pocket holes for quickly building habitats to give rescued wildlife a home while they rehab to go back to the wild. My last big project was turning a large mud room into a pantry with lots and lots of shelves and hundreds of pocket holes. The shelves are overstocked with heavy canned goods and have taken some abuse (short people hanging on to shelves to reach higher) and they are still as sturdy as the day I installed them. It is a terrific system.

*KregRep*
Nice to see a rep for a company show up with helpful information on a forum even when the talk is good.  Some companies only show when there is a problem and a fire to be put out.

I'll put this out here since you seem to be keeping up with this thread: My only complaint is the hours of running a drill for all those hundreds of holes gets painful on my arthritic hands. Even considering the pain in my hands, the lowest price Kreg Machine at around $800 is still a bit much for my hobbiest budget. Are there any plans for a product priced between the Kreg Jigs and Kreg Machines? Maybe a jig/machine that will hold an electric drill or router motor that a person already owns? I would think something like that, even in the $300 to $500 price range, would be a hot seller.


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

In over 30 years of woodworking, I've used dowels, biscuits, M&T, and just about every method for joining wood. The K3 is the greatest thing since sliced bread!! - lol

I didn't see where anyone mentioned this, so I'll add a recommendation to set the adjustable clutch on a cordless drill to around 10 - 12 when driving the screws. My 18v drill will sink the screws too deep (or break them) if I don't. I find that a setting of 10 - 12 breaks away just as the pan head bottoms out.


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## MyFathersSon (Apr 30, 2009)

I'm beginning to feel like Model T at a Prius convention-
But-- frankly-I personally prefer different varieties of M&T joints 
or when more appropriate half laps, sliding dovetails and occassionally dowels.
I wouldn't begin to claim any of these are "better" or "stronger" than pocket screws
And will admit up front they are NOT "faster" than pocket screws.
But-they have more to do with the reason I enjoy wood work-working with the - wood.
I like the sense of craftsmanship and tradition that (for me) accompanies the use of these techniques.
I just don't get that same sense when I just screw something together.
For those who do-this is NOT a put down in ANY way.
Just one old man's opinion.
And it is an opinion I admit would likely be very different if I ran a production shop or did this for a living or was in any other situation where speed was a higher priority.

For those times when I have needed to do someting fast-I have for years just run my pilot hole and countersink at an angle in what I always thought of as the screw version of toe-nailing. I didnt know until recently that it had a fancy name  And I admit-that having a jig or system like the kreg to help - would be great. In fact I plan to buy one just for those times.

As for the Kreg ad disparaging other techniques-
Can't blame them-they are selling a product-part of sales is creating a need - and one way to do that is to make you feel you arent quite up to snuff if you dont use-whatever-
It's called marketing-and like the opinions of timeworn old men -
marketing comments should always be taken with a grain of salt (lime and tequila optional)

Bottom line all else being equal-what works best for you-is what works best for YOU.


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## PawPawTex (Mar 16, 2010)

I've had the Kreg K3 Master system for several years now and I love it! It's a very versatile system. I've built quite a few projects with it with no problems whatsoever. I've thought about also getting the $800 semi-pro setup but haven't yet. It seems a bit pricey but if it's built as well as my K3 I'm sure it would be a welcome addition to my shop. To KregRep…Ya'll keep up the good work!


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## lovinmrv (Jan 9, 2010)

Myfatherson,

Great post. I'm building out my shop now, and am assembling the workbench using half laps. Then I'm going to make a finger joint jig, because I want to make drawer boxes for my shop and new kitchen using these joints….dovetails for another day.

For the Kitchen, face frames and boxes will be built using pocket holes…I may build the drawer slides using sliding dovetails…both for saving $$ and "just because".

One detail I'm considering for the drawer box finger joints is to drill through them vertically and insert a hardwood dowel…mahogany or something like that. I think it will look cool and add some interest. Comments?


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## nailbanger2 (Oct 17, 2009)

MyfathersSon,

Lime and tequila OPTIONAL? tsk, tsk, tsk


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## KregRep (Mar 20, 2009)

Spaids, you are correct, using the right screws makes all the difference in the world. The self-tapping tip, flat bottom head, non-breaking design, etc. can make a tremendous difference for almost any application.

Lovinmrv, good point with the model numbers. We're trying to get away from using the model numbers in normal day use. The model numbers simply state which # model they are. The names are:
Kreg Jig Master System
Kreg Jig
Kreg Jig Jr.
Kreg Jig Mini

Mary Anne, Thanks for the great supportive comments! I'll try to be as helpful as I can, although it can be hard to find all those around the web in need. If you want questions answered by me ASAP, the best way to do that is by posting a question over at http://kregjig.ning.com. We're there answering questions, constantly! Also, your product idea is a great one. I can't speak to any of our product development which is obviously quite secretive… but I can tell you that this request is not the first one we've had for something similar. We know there is demand for such a tool!

To everyone else, thanks for all the great supportive comments… so glad you're all enjoying your Kreg Jigs and other Kreg products. Making tools that help you work faster, easier, etc. is our passion here at Kreg! In case you didn't know, we're constantly working on developing new tools to help meet these expectations moving forward. Here are 5 new products we've released in just the past few months!

Until the next time, good luck and good woodworking!
KregRep


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## JohnStevens (Apr 21, 2010)

The Kreg system is great. The upgrade to the K3 is well worth it.

One 'secret' that I've found is that with all face frame joints, if you just use the supplied clamp (clamps top and bottom of the joint), often the joint moves/backs off slightly as the screw starts to make its way in. If the joint moves, even slightly, a little 'step' shows up in the joint. I've found that using the 90 degree clamp WITH the standard clamp keeps the joint aligned and tight while driving in the first screw. Once the first one is in I remove the 90 degree clamp and screw in the second screw.

The tighter the clamping, down and in, the better/more flush the joint.


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## REK (Aug 30, 2009)

I'm comment # 60!!!! Kreg jigs are nice, biscuits work fine, mortise and tenon are better, and glue holds wood stronger than wood when applied properly.


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## jack1 (May 17, 2007)

There was a test in one of the magazines a year or two back I think it was WOOD the tested all the breaking points for all the various joints and though mortise-tenon was on top, there really wasn't that much of a difference between it and pocket screws with glue and without glue the strength wasn't a big deal either for normal use. If I'm doing something special I'll use m-t to stay in style but for cabinets, boxes, drawers kreg is hard to beat for repeatability, strength and speed.


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## MyFathersSon (Apr 30, 2009)

The only negative experience I have had relative to pocket screws-wasnt really the tool's fauilt-but an overly zealous user.
I was recently asked to bid on redoing the remodel/restoration of a kitchen in a 1920s bungalow.
The owner had had the kitchen done by someone who (among many other things) - instead of using traditional joinery in making cabinet doors had gone hog wild with pocket holes-- and hadn't even bothered to fill/hide them. Eight very visible 'poclets' stared back at you every time you opened a door. In fact he loved them so much - he hung one door-with the pockets on the OUTSIDE.
Yes-I explained to here that these were perfectly secure joints and that rather than having to eat all she had spent on these doors there were ways the holes could be filled and concealed.
But she was so disgusted-all she wanted was this work gutted and replaced.
And no-not JUST because of the pocket holes-those were at worst inappropriate-much of the rest of his work was just-SHABBY (to use the most polite word that comes to mind)
His workmanship and business practices-were, last I heard, subject of a lawsuit.
Moral of this story-
Just because you CAN use a certain technique-Just because you love using a certain technique-Just because it is in and of itself a perfectly good technique-- Does NOT make it the right or best technique for every job.


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## lovinmrv (Jan 9, 2010)

I feel I have to share this, having resurrected this thread…

We are doing some kitchen remodeling at my church, so yesterday, I decided to check it out. The new counter-top had been mounted atop the base cabinets and face fames, which had been assembled using…..take a wild guess…?

Real good looking cabinetry, i might add…


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## MyFathersSon (Apr 30, 2009)

If I was perceived to be equating use of pocket screws with shoddy workmanship-that was NOT my intent.
Just that in some cases - like the one I mentioned - they can be an inappropriate choice-in this case made by someone who had made many others.
ANY technigue can be overused - misused - or done poorly.

As for faceframes-I agree that that can be an excellent use of this technique for all the reasons folks have already mentioned.

On another tangent - It makes me smile a little that this is sometimes seen as some-new discovery.
I've seen angled countersinks used on the cases and framing pieces of furniture going back at least 70 years and used the technnique myself as early 30 years ago for == you guessed it-joining face frames and attaching shelves. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this.
The good folks at Kregg just came up with a system to make the process easier - gave it a fancy name - and put their marketing team to work. The only problem I have with that is---that I didnt do it first


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## jack1 (May 17, 2007)

I've actually read somewhere that this technique was used by the ancient egyptians. I don't think they had screws per se but they use the angle drilling with some sort of pegs that served the same function as screws I think. (I just checked with Wikipedia and that's what they say there).


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

I love the Kreg jig, a small piece of blue plastic and dril bit with "stop" collar

combine that with a cookie cutter

track saw

add a domino

some brains

sky's the limit


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## Jimmy1021 (Apr 30, 2010)

I love the Kreg Jig. I've only used it on rough, shop cabinets. Its particularly useful on these projects because it is so quick and easy to use. I've seen it used on fine furniture as well and it turned out fine. The joints are very strong.

If its a big project and you're drilling all your pocket holes at once, make sure you have a corded drill. Somebody was borrowing mine at the time, and I attempted to do it will my 12V cordless. Dude, 100+ pocket holes will wear down a battery in no time… Love the jig though.


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## ferstler (Oct 5, 2008)

I started this topic thread and I do not think I have ever seen one go on for so long or have so many various comments. Obviously, the Kreg system, and pocket joinery in general, is a hot topic.


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## Kerux (Oct 7, 2007)

Kreg works without a doubt. Especially when the 'hole' is not going to be seen or barely seen in a project. I always go Kreg. Kreg is so much quicker, easier and the joints are great. Now if you are wanting to be old school in a project especially in a piece of furniture, I would recommend the classic joints.

The blog that I've been working on. My Little Shop Project I've done nothing but Kreg Pockets without glue. Just in case I ever have to take my shop apart again. I can and then just rebuild where ever I go. I'll be making a work/out feed table soon and my plans are to exclusively use the Kreg pocket screws.


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## Ryanf (Feb 12, 2010)

Question about kreg pocket screw jig, I make custom loft and bunk beds and in the winter is the hardest time to get glue to dry in my shop and stay strong so I have been looking at kreg pocket screws for awhile to replace the glue part of it but dont want to take away the nice clean look the glue gives the bed. My main concern is that I am screwing into small thickness and dont want the screws to go at such an angle. can you make the screws to go in at a more straight angle.

Here is a pic of how thick I would be screwing together.









Thank you guys.


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## juniorjock (Feb 3, 2008)

No.


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

I have been reading this thread because I have seen the long ads on TV about this and wondered how good this system realy is.
I see that most everyone likes it. 
I make cedar trunks and use dowels and glue to make joints. The thing is, my joints in these trunks are visable inside and out and I am afraid the bother of plugging the holes would be about as much trouble as the dowels are. The strength of the dowels is plenty in this application. Good thread…..........very interesing.


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## juniorjock (Feb 3, 2008)

Jim, I've been using the K3 system for a while now and really like it. I mostly use the PH screws where they will be hidden but when the holes are plugged, they don't look all that bad. In your case, I'm not sure that you could find the cedar plugs, but you could make your own. Either with cedar dowels (if you can't find them, they're not that hard to make. Add a little glue to these joints and they're not going to move. But if you're using the dowels now and they are getting the job done, I don't think it would be worth you paying out over $100 for the jig (unless you're planning to use it on other projects.
- SY

- aka JJ


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## RetiredCoastie (Sep 7, 2009)

I've been using Biscuits since the first hand held biscuit cutters were first sold and I've found them to be very convenient and strong. A few years ago I bought the Kreg system at the Wood Workers show and I find it to be a great tool and system. They both have their places. I've always used glue even with the pocket screws. There are times where I'll use both biscuits and pocket screws. For instance I clamp the assembly with bar clamps then I'll use the pocket screws to hold the pieces and this allows me to remove the clamps for use elsewhere while still maintaining pressure while the glue cures. Are either one stronger than mortise and tenon joinery? In my opinion no but depending on the style, project design and wood type biscuits and or pocket screws work great. I've tried using drywall screws in pocket holes but I don't think they're a good substitute for the pocket screws because they don't have the same clamping force and can actually pull through the hole due to wood movement or joint stress. In all cases joint design must be considered and matched to the forces and load the joint will be subjected to. Just my opinion!


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## cornflake (Jan 13, 2011)

The othe good thing i found out about when i started use pocket hole joinery is the versitility of the self tapping square drive screws I make many one use jigs and fixtures with the screws.


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## juniorjock (Feb 3, 2008)

That's a good point cornflake. Also, there is nothing that says you "have" to buy the screws from Kreg. There are lots of places that sell them and I'm sure they'd be a little easier on the wallet. Of course, if you can, it would be best to use the Kreg screws.
- SY

- aka JJ


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## juniorjock (Feb 3, 2008)

Ryanf,
I went back and re-read your post and I'm not sure if I understand exactly what you're question is…. if you are worried that the screws may go all the way through both pieces, Kreg makes a "mini" jig that uses shorter screws (a lot cheaper than the K3 systemm too). But as far as changing the angle using the jig, I don't think there is any way to do that with the jig that comes with the system. You may be able to create your own though. Good luck.
- SY

- aka JJ


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## ferstler (Oct 5, 2008)

I started this thread months ago, and now I will state that thanks to a Home Depot gift certificate from my nieces I now have the basic jig. (The more upscale version does not seem to have any advantages over the basic version for typical hobby work.)

I then spent some of my own money and picked up a Kreg bench clamp and two plates (since recessed into my rolling work bench), plus extra drill bits, extra driver points, and plenty of Kreg screws. I also purchased an other-brand drill bit with 45-degree shoulders (the Kreg bits have 90-degree shoulders for their special screws) that will allow me to use standard flat-top screws with less demanding projects. Being cheap, I also picked up two quick-release clamps at Harbor Freight that seem to be as good as the standard Kreg clamps, but at half the price.

My first project was to make two 16×20 picture frames and, after making sure that the drilled pieces were firmly clamped to my bench before driving the self-tapping Kreg screws, the assembly went off without a hitch. No doubt, more projects are up ahead.

I think that the main advantage of the Kreg jig and accessories is that they allow the user to do quality assembly work much faster than if they used biscuits, dovetails, rabbets, dowels, etc. And of course you can do the assembly work with glue and not have to do esoteric clamping work to get the parts to hold together while the glue dries. The finished project, because the joint makes use of metal screws, may be stronger than most of those others, especially if glue is also used. Note that I did not use glue on the frames, and they seem more than stiff enough to do the job. For furniture, I would probably use glue as well as the Kreg screws.

My only question regarding the device involves the white lettering style of the markings on the jig that we see in the various infomercials. The actual jig has moderately engraved markings, but they are not etched white. No coloring at all. That makes them a bit hard to see. I solved that problem by obtaining a Sharpie ultra-fine-point marker and used it to carefully turn the engraved markings black. Worked like a charm.

I certainly recommend the Kreg jig to anybody who does picture frame work or furniture assembly work, even if they also like to use other techniques at times.

Howard Ferstler


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

The Kreg joints are strong, but alignment without a pneumatic clamping
system is a problem. The company has a vested interest in downplaying
the need for space-hogging and costly assembly equipment for consistent
face-frame assembly. They want you to think the little clamp is as good 
as a huge air-powered clamping table. It is nowhere near the same in terms
of either speed or consistency from joint to joint.

The joints are plenty strong but the work cannot be held to close
tolerances unless you're really set up to use pocket holes on an industrial
level.

Hobbiests may not mind sanding and scraping past the misaligned joints
but in a pro setting the idea of drilling and manually clamping these sorts
of joints is flawed - the time spent correcting misaligned parts is too 
much for my tastes. In a face frame a misalignment of 1/100th of an 
inch can be felt and take time to sand out, working from coarse to 
fine, and the harder the wood, the longer it takes.

I have pocket hole jigs and use them - a lot, actually - but I'm not persuaded
it's better than doweling for casework and face frames.

Biscuits are no more accurate than pocket screws in terms of alignment 
errors in flush frames. Loose tenons have their problems that may
be reduced if you're getting all your frame stock thicknessed to 
within 1/100th of an inch consistently (not possible with lunchbox 
planers, in my experience). Dominos may be better, but the tool is
expensive, may be damage-prone (if you have employees), and 
prone to operator error just like a handheld biscuit cutter.

This is a point of view, admittedly, where time is money. If you'e
just having fun with pocket screws, ignore my opinion and enjoy
woodworking.


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## ferstler (Oct 5, 2008)

I have worked with biscuits and I agree with you that they are no more accurate than the Kreg approach. Indeed, since clamping is less easy to do with biscuits (often, multiple clamps in different planes are required) they are probably less accurate. They have their place, but the pocket approach may have an edge both in terms of speed and accuracy. After all, with biscuits you have to clamp during the glue-curing process and clamping can cause shifting. With the Kreg screws no clamping is needed after the screws are driven (assuming you want to use glue at all) and the alignment will be as good as the cutting work done to create the joined surfaces in the first place.

As for the advantages of a pneumatic clamp, once a frame or whatever is clamped tightly to the bench surface (and the Kreg clamps, as well as any number of other brands and types can certainly do this about as tightly as any wood surface can tolerate) I cannot see how any kind of pneumatic device could pull them down any tighter. Once you have them tight enough to not move then clamping them still tighter via a pneumatic device is basically gilding the lily. They certainly have not shifted when I was doing the assembly work. Once they are tight the screw-driving procedure works just fine. In any case, since the average hobby enthusiast is not doing assembly line grade work at high speed, hand clamps are more than convenient enough, and sure are able to hold a workpiece tightly to the bench surface.

On the other hand, if you are talking about 1/100 of an inch tolerances (and I sure have not seen anything like that with commercially made, mass-produced items turned out with a "time is money" approach), then, yes, it certainly does pay to use techniques that get you to that level. However, in most cases you are going to sand anyway; doing so to both smooth the workpieces for finishing and also to get the alignment perfect. Consequently, being off a tad before the final finishing work begins does not strike me as all that critical.

Certainly, with the standard Kreg jigs the company has a "vested interest" in not promoting a bunch of expensive ancillary gear, simply because the jigs are oriented towards use by those doing hobby-grade woodworking. However, often the hobby-grade results are superior to what the pros do, because, unlike pros, the hobby enthusiast has plenty of time to diddle and is not in the business of making a profit from their work. After all, with a business time is indeed money, whereas with a hobby time spent on a project is something the enthusiast enjoys.

Howard Ferstler


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## jack1 (May 17, 2007)

Every system has it's drawbacks. For the money, the Kreg is hard to beat. To be more accurate, use the clamps wisely including those that have an end that fits in a pocket hole and their 90º clamps too as well as stop blocks etc. The more you use this system, the more you like it and the better you get at using it. With or without glue, this jig makes one of the strongest joints as tested by Wood and other magazines. I also use and have used other joining methods and have sometimes been disappointed, (i.e. dimples on the surface of the wood where the biscuites are). Like anything else, you get what you pay for and those washer head screws are worth the money.
;0)


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## teejk (Jan 19, 2011)

I'll add to the thread (probably repeating something said earlier but this is a long thread!) Like many, I still use biscuits for the edge glue but recently bought the Kreg for face frames…M/T takes a long time and faces don't really need the strength since they get attached to the box anyway. I love this tool! Does a great job at squaring the joint and using the clamp on my 4×8 layout table makes for a very flush joint/minimal sanding.

Only problem I have experienced is where I need an inside rail on a long face frame that goes beyond the reach of the clamp (e.g. for kitchen drawers). Those are hard to get a flush joint. I'm sure I'll figure out something…cutting big holes in the table top to allow for inside clamping while screwing the joints will probably work but there goes my nice table top!


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## bunkie (Oct 13, 2009)

I *love* the Kreg jigs. I bought the pocket kit on a lark and after using it, I was converted. Having said that, you will get the best results if you buy into it completely. I moved up to the quick-release jig with the specialized clamps and they make it easier to get a good result.

My one issue with the system is that the torque from driving the screws can move the two workpieces relative to each other. It's most prevalent when edge-joining large plywood panels at right angles. This is where the clamps come in. Still, I find I have to be careful when assembling a project.

BTW, buy the screws in bulk. I bought a big box on Amazon (free shipping!) over a year ago and despite building lots of cabinets, I have plenty left.

My biscuit joiner mostly gathers dust these days. The Kreg has replaced it in almost all roles. One more great thing is that you don't have to use glue. This came in incredibly handy when, while installing the last of my upper kitchen cabinets, I noticed that I had miscalculated and my cabinet was 1/4" too wide. No problem. I disassembled the cabinet, ripped 1/4" off the relevent pieces and reassembled the new, narrower cabinet. Total time was less than 30 minutes to fix this. Had I used biscuits and glue, I would have had a much harder time of it.


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## jack1 (May 17, 2007)

teejk, can you show a picture of what you had a problem with? Maybe one of us can figure something out with you. 
Jack

p.s.

buying screws thought Amazon is the way to go. Good $$$$...


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

I have a copy pocket hole jig. I find screws at Lowe's. My jig set-up was $20 and can get replacement bits, etc. at HD. Have played around with it and find it to be a great way to join wood.


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## SouthpawCA (Jul 19, 2009)

My suggestion would be to NOT try to join anything thinner than 3/4". I recently tried to Kreg Jig 5/8" stock. There were cracks in at least one joint in 3 of the 6 frames. Interestingly, when I unscrewed the screws the wood joints (which I also glued) also just fell apart. Nuff, said about how crappy butt joints are. Since I didn't want to re-cut and plane everything, which would have provided the preferred half lap joint, but wasted a lot of expensive wood (Lyptus), I opted for biscuit joints. The biscuit joints proved secure enough. Dowels would also have been acceptable.


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## jack1 (May 17, 2007)

Use shorter screws…


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## JBfromMN (Oct 19, 2010)

Southpaw-Not sure why you had trouble with the 5/8" stock. The standard jig has an adjustment for the thickness of the stock. For mine IRC you need to loosen the brass screw and lower the insert to the next marked increment. I believe it will go down to 1/2" stock as well. I am at work and not in front of the jig right now so I am not sure. Most of the work mine has seen has been with 3/4" material and I have only used thinner stock once, but that was a year ago.

It could be that you have a different system than I have as well, and if so, just ignore me. 

Edited to add, I found a picture of the adjustment I was trying to explain above.


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## ferstler (Oct 5, 2008)

I want to add still another comment about the jig in addition to what I have said earlier. I have seen a few pictures of the K4 package in various ads (on Amazon, for instance) and it all of them the "basic" package photo shows everything I got in my package, PLUS the dust-collecting adaptor. In all of the lists I have seen of the components in that package the adaptor is not mentioned. So, not only do the Kreg videos mislead when showing the white-engraved lettering, the photos of the Kreg basic package also mislead. Interestingly, in none of the ads I have seen that deal with Kreg accessories have I seen the dust-collecting adaptor for sale separately.

Fortunately, if you can breath you can blow out the dust between drilling segments and the adaptor is not really needed at all.

I still recommend the jig.

Howard Ferstler


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## juniorjock (Feb 3, 2008)

Howard, you've got a good point. Kreg has their customers pretty confused right now. I bought mine over a year ago. I bought the K3 pkg. ($130) And at the time, Kreg advertised the K4 as the "basic" pkg. Now, it's the other way around. Maybe a Kreg rep could offer some insight on LJ. You are also painfully correct about the "white lettering". I was looking forward to that (don't see very well)..... but just the same molded numbers in blue.
- SY

- aka JJ


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