# Is good customer service a thing of the past?



## bendwriter (Aug 6, 2017)

I'm curious as to whether I'm alone in my experiences with companies these days. I've been doing a lot of revamping of my shop in recent months, so I've been doing a lot of shopping and research with a variety of companies - in person, by phone, and by email. I subscribe to the "more flies with honey than with vinegar" philosophy, so I'm always polite when I deal with people.

Without going into lots of details, Penn State's customer service people were totally snotty on the phone. Their tech people didn't respond to three different emails, and disconnected two of my phone calls. Woodcraft never responded to two different CS emails. Rockler CS is hit and miss. Filters Fast said they didn't carry something, and when I pointed out that it was on their website, the woman seemed surprised and just said she didn't keep up with all the numbers. A lot of the stuff I've been getting from Amazon lately looks like it's been packaged by people who totally don't care - stuffed in too-small boxes, no padding, held together with reams of tape, etc. I've even been shipped stuff that's "new" but is obviously a repackaged return from someone else.

On three different occasions I've been in stores and been told by disinterested millennials that "they don't carry that" or "they're out of that" (always without checking), and then I find it on the shelf a short time later. Harbor Freight gave me a box of parts from one item and another box of parts from a different item, then when I went back they just gave me another box of parts and told me to keep everything else, meaning the next guy is going to get a box with the wrong stuff in it. I returned a malfunctioning item to Home Depot, and watched while they started to put it back on the shelf. When I told them not to - "it doesn't work!" - the clerk seemed put out that I'd corrected her.

These are just a handful of examples, and they're more the norm than the exception. The notable bright spot - and you woodturners will know this - is Craft Supplies USA, who has the most incredible customer service of any company I've ever dealt with.

Anyway, just venting a bit, and curious if others have the same experiences.


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## Fresch (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, customer service is terrible. 
I needed a replacement fold for my truck bed cover call local gave them the part numbers, called cheapest dealer online gave numbers, online after long time on hold could only sell it if they revamped their website? Local guy I'm still waiting for call back, called factory- parts are sitting in my garage waiting for install.
I think that the self absorbed, Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, people believe they are owed respect having never earned or shown any; a failing of their upbringing, schooling, and mainstream media, I think it will only be getting worse as time goes on.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

No. 
And it wasn't great at most places in the past either.


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## ajshobby (Jan 30, 2012)

Customer service has pockets here and there. Over all I have seen nothing but a state of decline since the turn of the century. Though my recent experiences makes me think there maybe is a start to the resurgence of customer focused companies out there. I recently bought a new house and of course the wife wanted new furniture, a bed and kitchen appliances. Happy wife happy life and all that. Out of everywhere we went JC Penny's actually not only met what i would consider acceptable customer service but they went way above and beyond. Totally surprised me as I would have assumed just normal big box type crap service from them. They actually took care of dealing with the shipping snafu's for me without me even having to ask for them to do that. I also find our Bloomington Wood Craft store is exceptional but the local Rockler's are comparable to Lowes. Another way i find good customer service is through some commercial and industrial company sales reps i have access to, mainly for tools and supplies, due to my work. I utilize them whenever I can and usually get better than online pricing.

AJ in Mpls


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

I bought a variable speed motor from PSI last year. It was defective. I called them and had a replacement within 3 days. If the Chinese factory had decent quality control, I would not have had to call for customer service but when I did, I was very pleased. Their tech guy that they transferred me to was a little gruff but I was only on the phone for 5 minutes at most. Your mileage may vary.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

Amazon is one place I have no issues with their customer service. I find the opposite with the packing the stuff is usually way to small for the box it comes in. It's hit and miss in other places but in home depot i dont expect good customer service so it's a surprise when I do get the occasional person who actually is helpful.


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## pete724 (Mar 9, 2016)

customer service.






*warning 7 minutes long.


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## lightcs1776 (Nov 14, 2013)

Yes and no. I find customer service is low or non-existent in many stores. However, there are some that are still quite exceptional. For example, Wynn Environmental provided incredible customer service. Highland Woodworking also provided impressive customer service. Outside of woodworking, I purchase shave soap from Sterling Soaps (yes, I use a safety razor, brush, and shave soap). No one has beat their customer service. So there are companies that realize that they will keep customers by providing exceptional service. They are just far and few in between.


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## LittleShaver (Sep 14, 2016)

Lee Valley and Lie Neilson have some of the best customer service I've ever run across. HD and Lowes are spotty. Usually do better asking someone with gray hair for help. Youngsters can barely find their way to the store. I've been shopping through Amazon for 12-15 years and have only had to return one item that arrived broken. Not Amazon's fault, but the return couldn't have been easier. We had such bad service at Sears a few years ago that my wife refuses to even enter the store any more.
For the worst customer service, call a doctor's office or wait for them to make you an appointment with a specialist. You'd better call six months before you're sick or you'll be dead before you're seen. (rant complete)


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

Yes & No. It depends on the particular store. Overall? YES!

I went to Home Depot & Canadian Tire. I asked for the whereabouts of 2 Items. "We Sold Out of that." and "We're Out Of Stock on that." After looking Myself, I found them BOTH!

I Went to the Manager, told him. "Did you get their Names?" NO! "Nothing I can do about it. Good Help is hard to get these Days." "OH! Thank you very much!" He says "No Problem!" ( I hate that answer to "Thank You.")

DONE: Rick


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## marc_rosen (Sep 9, 2009)

Hey Bendwriter,
I apologize if this is a hijacking of your thread but in addition to bad customer service I get annoyed with many of the companies' websites. Some of you may think I'm impatient or intolerant but it really annoys me when I "add an item" to my shopping cart and this huge pop up , which is supposed to be my cart, obliterates half the viewing page and does not go away unless I click somewhere else on the page or click "continue shopping". Woodcraft and Rockler are the worst- and I have complained to them by phone and email, to no avail. I now refuse to spend my money with those site. PennState had been like this but I did not see this when I just "tested" it a few minutes ago. I did complain on my last order, don't know if that had any effect. Even Lee Valley suffers from obtrusive ( or is it intrusive?) shopping carts.
My favorite sites do not invade the webpage with these interfering carts; Highland Woodworking and Lie Nielsen both have subtle shopping carts that I can view if want to see what's in them. They don't get in my way and I can check out when I want without having to be reminded with each item I enter into it.
So to me crappy customer service can also be defined as annoying websites.
Back to my shop now,
Marc


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## bendwriter (Aug 6, 2017)

No apologies necessary Marc, because you've touched on another sore spot, and here it is. I casually look at one thing on a website - say a router fence on Rockler or maybe a shop vac on Home Depot - and for the next week I can't turn on my computer without a dozen ads for router fences and shop vacs popping up everywhere. It's especially irritating around the holidays, when I shop online for my wife. Suddenly my computer is taken over with ads for cloths and shoes and especially quilting items (you might guess she's a quilter - and you think woodworking is an expensive hobby!) Like Marc I've complained, but apparently these pop-up ads work, so they keep using them. Hate 'em!!


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## bendwriter (Aug 6, 2017)

Oh yeah - it unfortunately happens all the time here on Lumberjocks as well. As I post this, an ad for the shop vac hose I looked at today on Rockler's site is now staring me in the face at the bottom of this page. I guess it's the way of the modern world….


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Pop ups are the work of the devil. I'm pretty sure a 10th level of hell is under construction where nerds will have to click through a 100 pop ups every time they want to do something. And all passwords will be 100 characters long minimum and will have to contain at least 1 capital letter, 1 number, and 1 special character; and even though it's your home computer the password will be asterisk'd out so you can't see it.


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## JCamp (Nov 22, 2016)

To me the very worst is Menards. They are cheaper but they just about could fire everyone but the cashiers and I wouldn't notice any difference. Lowe's ain't great but it's better ( not sure if it's connected but my Lowe's tends to higher older folks) Locally my two Ace Hardwear stores (one is a nice lumber yard too) are the best. I rarely get in the door 10 feet without a employee asking if they can help. There is also a Carter lumber near me and they suck. Their prices r 3 times (literally) of Menards and CS sucks. I hope they put a Home Depot in front of that store and run them out of business


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## Pixxture (Mar 16, 2018)

From both sides now
I have a love/hate relationship with rockler. Ordered a laguna ts. A week later i called to verify order status, NOT delivery date. The cust srvc rep told me i needed to wait two more weeks b4 she would check order status (ie order was placed?, order is back ordered? etc). I called back 1 day short of my 3 weeks and was told i was 1 day short of 3 weeks. I talked the lady into checking my order status and found it was on back-order for another 7+ weeks. I cancelled. Yet on their products, not drop shipped ones, they are very good, order status is automatically sent within hours.
At the same time i work at a big box store in tools and hardware, and find that with low staffing there is no way i can give proper service to all.

Very frustrating being on both sides


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## JDK01 (May 21, 2018)

Happened upon this thread while thinking about a recent experience I had with CS, and I should like to share it, if it helps…I recently purchased a new Industrial Base for my Sawstop PCS, and had noted a couple of finish imperfections [ that were admittedly inconsequential, but I'm ridiculously anal] and not wanting to submit a warranty claim for something so trivial, I purchased a new part from the Sawstop store, which was very quick, easy and surprisingly inexpensive, however, when the part arrived, it appeared to have been dropped at some point, and was unacceptable [to me], so I called Sawstop, explained it to him, and sent photos. They were completely understanding, agreed that the part never should have gone out [I sort of felt like I just got some warehouseman jacked up] and said a new one would be sent right out, and double-checked. When I said that as I had a project coming up and had just used the original part, he said " well, would a Dado Brake and ZCI help??" I was astonished, that they would go to such lengths to make it right. Parts arrived in 3 days, perfect. Errors happen, to us, because of us, sometimes just bad luck. But Sawstop put that aside and just made it right. Needless to say, the saw, base, and customer service are beyond excellent. I know, some will say "well for that price, they oughtta" but I believe the saw alone is worth every nickel, and regardless of price, any company can start with a mindset of quality and customer first. Some don't , and that's really unfortunate, and I too have had some of those same experiences with the companies you mentioned. Best of luck in the future. Jim


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

Guess it's the luck of the draw. I have had nothing but great customer service from all of the vendors that the OP mentioned. If anything I think CS has improved over the years as the internet can crush sales because of the instant feedback that can be posted. "Back in the day" you could write a letter to CS and complain. Today a negative Google review will be read by thousands of people within hours of its posting.


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## Jim Jakosh (Nov 24, 2009)

Customer service depends on the person you get on the line. Some go out of their way for you and others look at the job as 9-5 and I'm outta here. Sometimes it is the attitude of the company but I think the rep is the key to service. For Example.
I bought a new Henry 22 mag pump. I did not like the action at all and called to complain and wanted to trade it for an nice lever gun for which they are famous.

1st rep ( Bob): Send it back with a note on why your are unhappy with it and we replace it with a Frontier model. I thought about it and then I wanted to send it back and get a Golden boy and pay the difference.

- Second rep ( Dina). I told her the problem, and that I wanted a Golden Boy instead of the plain Frontier model. She said here on E mail is a postage paid UPS label, use that to return it and you will be sent a Golden Boy ...no extra charges at all!!!!!!! Now that is Customer Service!!!!!!!!! I love then New lever 22 mag.

Cheers, Jim


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## BroncoBrian (Jan 14, 2013)

The operator of your local store makes ALL the difference. In Denver, the Rockler shop is awesome. I enjoy the people who work there. In Colorado Springs, Woodcraft is great. Happy to shop there any time.

Amazon's service is incredible, but that depends on your rating. If you use Amazon a lot like our family and do not return most stuff you buy, they are very happy to solve any issue.

SawStop, Forrest, Dewalt, Jet/Powermatic, and Whiteside have been helpful when contacted. Same with Bob's Festool (great company!).

Generally, big box stores are for buying stuff because you need it now. I don't expect anyone there to be of much help.

Powermatic sent me a PM1500 that had a part shear off in at the top wheel. I called them about it, sent a quick video of it running, and they sent an advanced replacement right away. 3 Days later a new bandsaw was there and I was able to slide the first unit into the packaging. That afternoon they had a guy pick it up. Their comment was that it was not my job to rebuild a new saw.

SawStop was missing a pin to lock the height adjustment of the blade. It took 10 minutes to install when I got it but they also said that it should not have been missing and sent a spare break cartridge for the trouble. I asked about the best paint to seal a small chip on the front rail at the same time. The support guy answered the question AND sent me a new rail because he thought it should have been perfect.

In my experience, talking to the company the right way makes a huge difference! Also, having a realistic expectation and know who you are talking to.

I've had to be CS in my own businesses. I guess I know which customers were worth helping out more and which were going to be difficult no matter what you do.


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## Fresch (Feb 21, 2013)

I think the human race is getting dumber by the day; here we have, The Dave Matthews Band, other big names back to back playing at our new multimillion venue only we just tore up the parking lots.
The State Fair is held here, big dirt track, only they tore that up last year and the new track fell through. So much for 100 yrs. of race history; but we now have room for more rappers!
I see miss USA will now be xgender, open to "all".
I just cancelled two chainsaw loops from the local guy after never hearing back from him in 3 weeks, he told me they shipped now he is saying Oregon is out of the chain. It's in stock 20 miles down the road, so much for not buying through the internets.
Get OFF my lawn!


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## grnjames (May 31, 2018)

Well, even a good samaritan is hard to find these days so it's pure luck when you get a good one.


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## DustyM (May 16, 2016)

> In my experience, talking to the company the right way makes a huge difference! Also, having a realistic expectation and know who you are talking to.
> 
> - BroncoBrian


Man, I can't agree with this enough. When my wife and I were moving back to KY from CA, we had to start the lease process on an apartment remotely. We both knew the area and the complex well, so we were all set to rent a 1 bed/1 bath. Filled out all the paperwork, paid the security deposit, had it lined up to move in the day 2 days after we got back in town.

Well, we go to the complex to pick up our keys (the moving truck was set to arrive in 3 days at this point), and they inform us that the tenant, at the last minute, decided to re-up their lease, leaving us high and dry. I didn't see a point to get upset with the situation (if that was within the tenant's rights, so be it), but I could see the anxiety building in my wife. I asked her to step out for some air while I talked to management. I didn't rage, or even raise my voice, I just pleaded my case, person-to-person. Explained that I knew it was complicated, but that our truck was arriving within a few days, and I was under the impression that all the paperwork and security deposit up to that point guaranteed us a place to live. Well, they ended up having a vacant 2bed/2bath unit available, and offered it to us at the same cost as the 1/1 for the duration of our lease.

That was by far the best experience I ever had with an apartment complex's management. Of course, now we own a home, and the management there really slacks off


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