# Cherry Wood Finish



## khays (Aug 16, 2009)

I've been researching on how to work with cherry and control the blotches and it seems many different opinions are on how to accomplish this. It seems one good choice is to use BullsEye Seal Coat and apply a glaze over it. Going that route what is the best way to put the final seals on? I have also looked at BullsEye Amber Shellac, but I'm confused on how this would work with controlling the blotching? I do sorta like the warm glow the amber gives most of the time.

How is the bullseye amber shellac usually used?
Is the sealcoat with glaze a good way to control blotching and what to apply after the stain to finish it?

Thanks,

Kevin


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

Kevin:

Yes, it's a good way to go about it, but understand that cherry will darken and change over time. Many people just finish cherry quite naturally and allow it to do its thing. That's the best approach, IMHO.

I like Zinsser Sealcoat (dewaxed shellac) for most everything. I recommend that for your project as a washcoat. Afterward, you can adjust the hue with stain or dye. With amber shellac, there is much thought that the wax might cause adhesion problems, though its debatable. For that reason, I typically would only use amber shellac as the finish, with nothing on top. It really needs nothing else, unless its something you might set a drink on.

With the Sealcoat, I will often finish with a water-borne poly.


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## khays (Aug 16, 2009)

I do enjoy the beauty of natural cherry and believe it gets better with age also  That is an approach i'd like to do also is to just let it do it's thing, but control the blotching.

So in order to get that natural finish sealcoat with water based poly?

The amber shellac just use for a final finish and if so what would typically be used if using the amber as the final finish?

I'll be using this on scrap pieces of cherry that I have around the house before I actually start on my bookshelves 

Thanks again,

Kevin


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## ChefHDAN (Aug 7, 2010)

I work with alot of cherry it's pretty easy to get here locally, I use 2 to 3 applications of BLO then at least a week of cure then spray a waterbased poly over, check the hall table in my projects, it's darkening into a beautiful finish. be sure to follow proper safety with the BLO and spread those cloths out to dry though


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## skipj (Mar 6, 2012)

You should check out this .( www.finishwiz.com)go to cherry section. A lot of good info.


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

You can thank me later

This Charles Neil stuff is awesome.


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## khays (Aug 16, 2009)

Thanks for all the info  I'm eager to start working!

Kevin


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

Kevin…shellac IS a finish. So if you use amber shellac, I wouldn't finish over the top of it. If you need the finish properties of a poly finish or a lacquer, then I would simulate the amber color using dyes…using waxed shellac under those finishes could cause adhesion issues.

I would use the Sealcoat (which is dewaxed shellac) mixed with a little dye to get the amber color, then top with the varnish or lacquer…if that is what I needed. Alternatively, using an oil can give the warmth of the amber color, followed by any finish of your choosing.

Typically, the choice of film finish depends on the purpose. For most things, shellac is really all you need, but you wouldn't use it typically on things where you'd set a drink, because you can get water rings and a spilled alcoholic drink could dissolve the finish…(shellac uses alcohol as a solvent).

Varnish and lacquer have a huge marketing influence, so people have been conditioned to think that shellac isn't an effective finish. That would be erroneous.


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## BTimmons (Aug 6, 2011)

I'll just piggy back on this question. Do you shellac afficianados prefer brushing or spraying shellac from a can?


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## khays (Aug 16, 2009)

Hey Cosmic,

Makes perfect sense now! Thanks for that clarification 

Kevin


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

3:2 denatured alcohol to shellac seal coat makes a great pre-stain conditioner. I spray it with a gravity feed HVLP gun.


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## mking1 (Jan 11, 2011)

Kevin: Blotching occurs when the wood fibers are parallel to the board's surface in one area and adjacent areas have wood fibers at a steeper angle to the surface exposing various amounts of end grain characteristics. In other words the wood fibers weave up and down through the board's length producing some areas with wood fibers that are parallel to the surface and some areas with some with various amounts of end grain exposed. It is those end grain wood fibers that soak up more finish material than the straight or parallel fibers producing that "blotching" effect. Also straight grain fibers reflect light differentially than end grain does. Of course this blotching is the major contribution to the beauty of cherry showing off the wood's grain and patterns. Sometimes the "blotching" produces pleasing results and sometimes not so pleasing. I've tried sever methods such as conditions and shellac but have always been dissatisfied with the results so I've learned to accept the blotching and the finish has almost always improved with age. Of course it is always in the eye of the beholder and since I don't like the stained dark cherry I like the more natural finish I just use a transparent finish and let the cherry age to a natural patina.


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## shampeon (Jun 3, 2012)

I prefer wiping thinned shellac with a rag over brushing. You get a much more even surface. Spraying shellac is the best, but I don't like setting everything up for a quick coat. It's also a little fussy to get the right pressure and volume to keep the atomized shellac from drying before it hits the wood.


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## jasoncarpentry (Feb 18, 2011)

Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm in the habit of using Minwax polyurethane on EVERYTHING I do, including cherry. I usually use satin, and start out with a few coats of 50% poly and 50% mineral spirits, applied w/ a clean rag (usually I just leave the rag in the jar and put on an air-tight lid). This creates what's known as a "wiping varnish." I use several coats (sometimes I lose count), w/ a light 000 or 0000 steel-wool rub between coats. Usually this is enough; i.e., a full-strength layer of poly isn't needed, and can give the wood a "plastic" look, which I don't like.

Just my $0.02.


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## khays (Aug 16, 2009)

Appreciate all the info and techniques everyone has given.

Kevin


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## ClintSearl (Dec 8, 2011)

As you see, there's a dedicated band of shellac lovers fighting the *dreaded cherry blotch*. Well, I'm here to tell you that it ain't necessary. When I work cherry, or anything else for that matter, shellac never plays a role. My film finish of choice is solvent lacquer, which I apply straight to the raw wood. So, forget the shellac, and use waterborne or oil poly if brushing, or lacquer if spraying.


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## jimmy321 (May 1, 2011)

Analine dyes…no blotch…google wd lockwood…


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## shampeon (Jun 3, 2012)

Clint also has admitted he has never used shellac, so he doesn't know what he is talking about.


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

Clint…we all know what you would do. The issue is how you can help the OP with his question? How would you color a blotchy wood. If you wouldn't, then there's no point in posting anything, especially since we all know what you are going to say anyway.

I would suspect that if your life depended on it you might add a little aniline dye to the lacquer and spray it on, but if that's the case then you should tell the OP that.


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## ClintSearl (Dec 8, 2011)

Gentlemen, my impression is that Kevin has accepted the conventional wisdom (myth) that every finishing schedule must start with a layer of shellac. My actual experience suggests otherwise. I achieve match grade results with less muss and fuss in spite of never having used it. Finishing should and can be a pleasant and rewarding process by eliminating superfluous steps and using modern products.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

BTimmons- Check out Black Cherry's blog on "French Polishing". It changed my whole approach. Shellac has become my favorite finish with this method.


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## mbs (May 8, 2010)

I've used danish oil on cherry and I'm happy with the results. Very easy to apply and take care of. I may not use it on something that I'll set a drink on because of water rings.

One of the nice characteristics of danish oil is you can sand and re-apply if you get a water ring. However, since cherry oxidizes you would likely have a problem sanding out a small water ring and having it match the other surface.

I've just started some cherry/wenge end tables which will have drinks placed on them. I'm trying to figure out what to use too.

I may use a pre-cat lacquer. Haven't decided yet.

Good luck


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## shampeon (Jun 3, 2012)

There is no myth, nor is there any conspiracy to promote shellac. You don't have to use shellac if you don't want to, but you act as though anybody that does is deluded or foolish. Considering you don't have any actual knowledge about shellac, it isn't even a preference based on experience.

I use shellac. It works. There are other finishes that work, and I use them too.


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## khays (Aug 16, 2009)

Thanks guys.
I know you don't have to use shellac on everything which i've done quite a few pieces before and never used shellac, but I want to control blotching on cherry or minimize it and for the most part shellac was the method to use as a washcoat to try and control it.

For the most part my work consisted of oil/gel stain with either poly or danish oil/tung oil  Never had a problem working with the oak/walnut until I started working with Cherry, lol.

I do realize that it's more on a project by project basis on what you should really use.

Anyway thanks again all!

Kevin


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

Clint:

I get that. I do. But the question is how you color cherry without blotching? We can argue all day how best to finish cherry…and for the record, I'd do it exactly like you do.

But IF you were going to change color, am I to assume you'd use nothing? I know you've been known to use thick gel stains, which I can see you doing, but again, why not express that if it's the OP's question?

But I will disagree with you. I've sprayed both lacquer and varnish on all sorts of woods. That alone does not bring out the figure in flame maple or the chatoyance of walnut like padding on shellac or wiping on an oil-based finish.

You make beautiful furniture, but I have the feeling that you leave behind a little unfound potential in your woods.

Shellac is cheap and has multiple uses. More than that, it's natural and, for me, adds a tactile dimension to the work.


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## BTimmons (Aug 6, 2011)

*gfadvm, *Thanks for the tip.


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## ClintSearl (Dec 8, 2011)

Jay, I have only used water soluble dye stains and pigmented oil stains (ZAR). The only time I used a stain on cherry, it was ZAR, and then only to change the color of sapwood.

I'm of the opinion that anything that "wets" the wood will emphasize the grain, and the only difference between the various products is the added color, usually amber, that some impart. Perhaps the added color offers more emphasis, but haven't tested that.


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## pjones46 (Mar 1, 2011)

Before you commit to any process, try different approaches on scrap. You may wish to read my Blogs on finishing, all of them, then try some different methods to see which suits your taste. You will never stop all blotching and some people really like the contrasts. Those contrasts will disappear for the most part in time as the wood naturally ages, however, if you are starting with cherry that has light sap wood and the darker heart wood you may wish to try to even it out by using this method first. It is personal taste and preference only, that's why you must make tests on scrap.

Good luck, it only took me two years to decide how I wanted to finsh my wifes desk.

pj


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## khays (Aug 16, 2009)

I practiced over the weekend on a piece of scrap cherry wood. I applied sealcoat over the entire board and later followed half of it with amber shellac. After placing the board outside with a scrap piece of board at each end to see how the sunlight would effect the board for a few hours I brought it back in the garage. The wood that was exposed to the sunlight starting looking completely different than what was not exposed. This was a good thing!!

I also used gel stain over the sealcoat and while it did cut down on blotching tremendously I still prefer the natural color if given the choice I think, or at least right now.

I'll continue to test on scrap before I start my bookshelves.

Thanks,

Kevin


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## richardwootton (Jan 17, 2013)

Are there issues with blotching when using an oil rubbed finish like BLO, teak or tung oil?


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## pjones46 (Mar 1, 2011)

Yes there is blotching with all of them, however having said that, to what degree is acceptable to the taste of the finisher and what method does the finisher feel comfotable applying.


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