# minimum panel thickness



## KellyB (Mar 1, 2015)

I'm making flat panel cabinet doors for kitchen cabinets, and wonder if I can get my solid red oak panels down to 1/4 inch thick without asking for trouble in terms of warping/cupping.

If I do 3/8 or 1/2 inch, I'll end up with a gap showing on the back if I machine a 1/4 in tounge, which I'm not sure how I'd like.

The oak has been well seasoned (air dried).


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## Earlextech (Jan 13, 2011)

My preference for flat panel doors would be a reversed raised panel. Second choice would be 1/4" veneered ply. 1/4" solid wood would never enter my mind.


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

1/4 ply. youd save cash and it is easier. Not positive but i think this would be getting close to that "asking for trouble" area. Youd have to glue thick, 1/2 or 3/8 just to be able to get it to clamp flat and…nope, I talked my self out of even trying to offer you hope. Your glue joint would be just less than 1/4 by the length. Those cabinet doors would keep me up at night. Do me a favor and just go with ply. I will be awake until you agree to this.


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## KellyB (Mar 1, 2015)

Ok. No 1/4 inch. What, then, would be your minimum for solid wood glued up?
You should know that my oak is free; no plywood is going to save me money.


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## jdh122 (Sep 8, 2010)

I've glued up 1/4 inch panels before. The strength of the joint is not an issue, the glue is still stronger than the wood. You need to use cauls for the glueup but it should work. If the panels are housed in a groove they shouldn't warp.
If it were me I'd probably be inclined to glue up a bit thicker, though, probably about 3/8. And then, rather than making a tongue on the panels, simply bevel the four edges until they fit.

Here's a project where I did exactly what you're thinking about:
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/79976
Pictures are lousy, but the doors have solid wood panels sized to fit a groove in 3/4 inch stiles. Nothing has warped or moved since and the glueup was not difficult.


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

My vote is for 1/2" panels, rabbeted to a 1/4" tongue. They will look, sound, and feel more robust than 1/4" panels.


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

No, use 1/4 ply and give me your free oak.

Ok, i agree with the 1/2 panels and rabbit to 1/4 tongue. But i am partial to a nice cove raised panel and think that would look the best.

You may have to really work to get them all nice and flat.

Let us know how it comes out after you bang out a door.


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## ADHDan (Aug 17, 2012)

I made a bunch of maple panels for a desk that were just a hair thicker than that (maybe 5/16") and even with cauls and careful clamping I did get cupping. They flattened out fine once fit into the frame, though, and I knew what I was getting into - I just really wanted to make the entire desk out of hardwood (well, ok, the drawers were Baltic birch ply).


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

1/4 inch plywood panels Look cheap and feel cheap. Just as well go to the Borg and buy cheap cabinet.

I have done 1/4'' solid oak panel but I use a center style and book match the panels. This make the panels narrow enough you don't have to glue pieces together. See pictures below.



















That being said if you what solid wood panels that require gluing up the panels I'd do like in the drawing below.


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## sawdustjunkie (Sep 12, 2013)

Are you saying you want the doors to be only 1/2" thick?
If that is what you want to do, I don't see anyway that thin of a door will not warp


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## BinghamtonEd (Nov 30, 2011)

I used 1/4" ply for the flat panel doors on the island I made. If I had to do it again, I'd definitely bump it up to 3/8 or 1/2". I think even if I'd used 1/4" solid wood for the panels, I'd still have the same complaint I do now : doors feel too light.


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

great look. Love the center stile.


> 1/4 inch plywood panels Look cheap and feel cheap. Just as well go to the Borg and buy cheap cabinet.
> 
> I have done 1/4 solid oak panel but I use a center style and book match the panels. This make the panels narrow enough you don t have to glue pieces together. See pictures below.
> 
> ...


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## Underdog (Oct 29, 2012)

I've seen the backcut solid wood flat panels made anywhere from 3/8" to 5/8" thick. They don't look any worse than 3/4" thick raised panels, and customers like them better than the 1/4 ply or 1/4 veneered MDF. The veneered MDF is slightly better than the ply because it's closer to the full 1/4" and doesn't rattle like the ply does.


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## KellyB (Mar 1, 2015)

I truly appreciate the input I'm getting here. 
SirIrb: Go take a nap, or at least a good night's sleep. I have abandoned the 1/4 idea.

AlaskaGuy: I like those cabinets! I'm going back to the drawing board.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> I ve seen the backcut solid wood flat panels made anywhere from 3/8" to 5/8" thick. They don t look any worse than 3/4" thick raised panels, and customers like them better than the 1/4 ply or 1/4 veneered MDF. The veneered MDF is slightly better than the ply because it s closer to the full 1/4" and doesn t rattle like the ply does.
> 
> - Underdog


My supplier has A2 1/4 inch plywood. That's A both sides and it a full 1/4" thick. A2 is desirable so when you open the door it doesn't look like do do on the inside. But, it still makes the door pretty light feeling and Plywood never stains the same as solid wood (if you're staining). 1/4 plywood can be glued in to eliminate rattle since it doesn't move like solid wood.


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

Kelly,

There is no physical reason you cannot use 1/4' panels, .....as to why you would do so is a different situation.

Some 12 months ago ( Mar 2014) I made a set of work boxes for my ute. I posted a blog on he activity as well if you care to read it.
I pushed the limits of thickness to the extreme in making them. Mainly it was driven by the material I had to work with.
Now later they are still in good shape bouncing about in my vehicle.

So my answer is to you is yes you can.

Q. Why did I do it and not simply use ply? 
A. because I had the materials available.
Q. Do they look odd? 
A. yes they do, when you examine the actual fittment and compare them against "normal" build convention.
Q. Do they Drum? 
A. Yes they do.

Q. Why did I do it that way?
A. Because I wanted to.

Q.Would I do it again under the same circumstances?
A. Yes I would.

Q. Have I done it before?
A. Yes I have made heaps of book matched panels all about 8mm or 1/4" of which no cupping has occured.

Q. Why did I do that?
A. Because I had great featured timber that was capable of doing it to.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

The big thing about solid wood is there's probably no way you're going to keep a 1/4 solid wood panel flat across its width if its over 6" wide (and they will) Even if its quartersawn, but its not impossible. Just be aware stock this thin moves alot faster and alot more during milling.

I've planed down 1/4" stock before and within an hour its cupping.

When you're milling them, take equal amounts off each side this is especially critical in thin stock like this.

Each time you mill them, sticker them and put them in a climate controlled room, and I would even put them in plastic bags to slow down the acclimatization process.

That being said, a little bit of warp should be taken out when you fit them in the grooves.

If you don't want a raised panel you could still make them 3/8 and cut a rabbet facing the back of door.

Any way you do it make sure you leave the panel short a strong 1/16 across the grain to allow movement.

If you don't have access to a drum sander you need to use a sled in your planer.

I don't know the width of your doors, but you might consider having a center rail and have a narrower panel.

Hope any of this helps. Good Luck. Post some pics when you're done.


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