# Brush on Poly vs. Arm-R-Seal wipe on



## bassett72 (Jan 30, 2018)

I'm wondering the following between the 2:
Which is easier to apply?
Which produces better looking results?
Which is provides a harder, more durable surface?

I previously did mantle and had many issues with bubble in the poly and didn't know what to do with the final coat to get the bubbles out???!?
I didn't want to sand it as I didn't want it to look cloudy like the previous coats.

Then, I saw a few videos on using ARM-R-Seal wipe on, oil based. Seemed to be easier to work with, but wanted to check with the experts here to see what the answers are to the above questions and any other pros and cons are before I start my next project.

Thanks…


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## Carloz (Oct 12, 2016)

Wipe on: 
Pros: You need almost no experience and no additional investment besides an old t-shirt.. You get very good results on the very first attempt. 
Cons: You need to apply more coats, with long drying times. Expect a week to complete the project.

Brush on: 
Pros: The layers are thicker and you need fewer of them.
Cons: You need some top quality ( expensive ) brush and way to clean it. You spoil quite a few projects before you start getting professionally looking results without bubbles, brush marks etc.

Spray on:
The best quality and fastest to apply finish. But hardly anyone sprays oil based polyurethane because cleanup is a nightmare, if possible at all.


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## bassett72 (Jan 30, 2018)

I hear 1 vote for wipe on. And I'm leaning that direction. How about durability/hardness?

Also, would anyone suggest using ARM-R-Seal over Minwax Wipe on?


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

Wipe-on poly (regular poly mixed 50/50 with mineral spirits) is almost foolproof, and you can get darn near any look you want. Not sure where the long dry times comment came from… initial coats dry to the touch in 5-15 minutes and you don't need to sand between coats unless they have cured for longer than 24 hours. You can easily slap on 6-10 coats within 8 hours, let it cure overnight, then apply a final finish coat or two and call it done.

Cheers,
Brad


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## buckbuster31 (Dec 27, 2016)

wipe on hands down.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Wipe on varnish is usually called the most fool proof finish to apply of all. It's common to mention that it takes 3 coats of wipe on to equal one coat of brushed, but this will vary with the amount of thinner. used in the wiping product. Generally, I will apply 3 coats in one day and let it sit, then repeat….that will also vary with the product. But if there should be little difference in the durability and other attributes if the finished film thickness is the same between the 2 finishes.


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## EarlS (Dec 21, 2011)

I've tried all of the methods mentioned as well as the products and there is no comparison. Arm-R-Seal is my favorite finish. I routinely spray Arm-R-Seal with great results and minimal setup and clean up. I also wipe it on as a precoat on pieces before finalglue-up. It is far superior to minwax, or wipe on poly IMO.

One last comment about drying time. If you rush drying you wind up with problems. I wait 24 hours between coats, no exception. It is faster than having to re-sand and start over because the finish wasn't dry before another coat was put on top of it.

Find what works for you and what you like.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

I use Arm-R-Seal or Waterlox on all of my furniture and cabinet builds, depending on the situation. I find that a good quality foam brush (yes, they exist, but not at Harbor Freight or Home Depot) is a great choice. It gives the heavier build of a brush, but without any brush marks. No gloves required either.


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## Carloz (Oct 12, 2016)

> ... Not sure where the long dry times comment came from…
> Cheers,
> Brad
> 
> - MrUnix


RTFM. Dry 12-24+ hours between coats when applying over raw or stained raw wood, and dry 72+ hours between coats when working over an existing sealed finish. ... Inadequate dry time is one of the top reasons for finish failures….
Of course many people do sloppy job and cut corners ending with mediocre finish.


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## stevepeterson (Dec 17, 2009)

> One last comment about drying time. If you rush drying you wind up with problems. I wait 24 hours between coats, no exception. It is faster than having to re-sand and start over because the finish wasn t dry before another coat was put on top of it.


I used some brush on poly a long time ago and it seemed like it still smelled at least 6 months later. I was inexperienced and probably put on a second coat too soon, locking a wet coat under the to player. This should be less of an issue with wipe-on poly because each layer should dry faster. It is probably best to wait extra time between coats to avoid this issue. Two coats per day with wipe-on ploy should still be OK.


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## bassett72 (Jan 30, 2018)

How about durability/hardness of the ARM-R-SEAL oil based Urethane?


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> RTFM. Dry 12-24+ hours between coats when applying over raw or stained raw wood, and dry 72+ hours between coats when working over an existing sealed finish. ... Inadequate dry time is one of the top reasons for finish failures….
> Of course many people do sloppy job and cut corners ending with mediocre finish.
> - Carloz


That is for arm-r-seal oil based top coat (applied w/brush, pad or sprayed) - not the 50/50 wipe on poly I was referring to - sorry for the confusion.

Cheers,
Brad


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

*would anyone suggest using ARM-R-Seal over Minwax Wipe on?* No. MW poly is one of the few MW products I will use. Its all about the application. You might find this interesting reading.. If brushing thin the poly 10-20% and use a good brush as mentioned.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

I've used both Arm-R-Seal and Minwax Wipe On Poly. I much prefer the Arm-R-Seal. It gives a much better looking finish, IMO.


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## bassett72 (Jan 30, 2018)

What do people do after the final coat? Anything, or once it dries, it dries. Mainly speaking to Arm-R-Seal…

OSU, I might try both methods and see what works best for me. So, if I could get your post final coat steps, I would appreciate it.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

I don't do anything. The final coat is always a very thin one, wiped on.

I can't imagine a circumstance where I'd need more shine than gloss Arm-R-Seal. I don't even normally stock gloss finish, since I use semi-gloss for just about everything I make.


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## TungOil (Jan 16, 2017)

I have used both as well as Waterlox. Any of the three will provide a good finish. Contrary to popular opinion about Minwax products, the wipe-on poly is a fine product. Arm-r-seal is a nice product as well, but it seems to build just a bit slower than the Minwax from my experience. I like Waterlox the best. It adds a lot of color to the wood, but it builds the slowest of the bunch. I apply all of them using folded cheese cloth and always allow 24 hours between coats, no exceptions. Also be sure you are using fresh product in any of these finishes.


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> I use Arm-R-Seal or Waterlox on all of my furniture and cabinet builds, depending on the situation. I find that a good quality foam brush (yes, they exist, but not at Harbor Freight or Home Depot) is a great choice. It gives the heavier build of a brush, but without any brush marks. No gloves required either.
> 
> - Rich


I agree, apply with a good foam brush. I apply pretty thick and it self levels. Great stuff. I've wiped it on and will for vertical pieces, but for the top of something it gets a few nice thick coats.


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## Carloz (Oct 12, 2016)

> What do people do after the final coat?
> 
> - bassett72


I open a beer,


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## bassett72 (Jan 30, 2018)

This is all great stuff, even the beer comment, Carloz. ;-)

Really, I do appreciate all the input so far. I'm really getting the bug to do more woodworking projects than my very simple speaker stands I did 20 years ago. NOW, does anyone have all the tools I need to really get into it? HAHA. That is the part that sucks. I'm just experimenting with a Kreg pocket hole jig, but that is as far as I'm invested in woodworking specific tools. I REALLY want to build a pub table for our family room and found a simple design on RED HOT BUILDING channel. And for some reason I can't stop watching it over an over…..Of course, only to ensure I get it right. Actually, before I build that, I need to make a bench that I saw on the same channel. Seems like I need a few specialty clamps to start with, but one thing I know for sure is I'm going to be playing with wipe on versus brush on clear coats. I also need to make some sort of dust free (or at least less dust) area in the corner of my garage to do the clear coats.

I'm game for more input/advise anyone has as I start on my new hobby I really don't have time for. With kids in swim and baseball, OH, and a very demanding 10+hour/day job, these next 2 projects might take me a good 4-6 months.

OH, and if there are any tools or tricks people want to share that would really make my woodworking hobby life easier, please share that as well. I currently have a miter saw, small table saw, and router. I don't have a lot of room/money for any big machines, but if there are things you would suggest like clamps, small tools that a woodworker shouldn't be without, etc. Please, make those recommendations….

Thanks all….

OH, and PS, to people generally use Satin, Semi-Gloss, or Gloss most regularly?


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## EarlS (Dec 21, 2011)

Generally, I apply Behlens Deluxing compound to table tops and buff it out to provide a nice wax shine as well as very durable wax coating. Most everything else gets a rub down with a soft cloth and maybe a little wax.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Spray on:
> The best quality and fastest to apply finish. But hardly anyone sprays oil based polyurethane because cleanup is a nightmare, if possible at all.
> 
> - Carloz


That's half right. Where did you get the part about cleanup? If possible at all? It's easy, assuming you know what you're doing.

One negative you did miss is that it's the most wasteful method.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm an outlier on the gloss thing, I almost always use gloss finishes. If I want less sheen I work it in with some rubbing compound, pumice, or abrasive pad.


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## Johnny_Yuma (Nov 29, 2009)

> How about durability/hardness of the ARM-R-SEAL oil based Urethane?
> 
> - bassett72


Poly is generaly more durable. Arm R Seal looks much better though, IMO.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

> How about durability/hardness of the ARM-R-SEAL oil based Urethane?
> 
> - bassett72
> 
> ...


That has not been my experience. I'd call the durability equal between the Wipe-On Poly and Arm-R-Seal. I have never wanted for more finish durability in my projects, honestly. I feel like most urethane finishes are pretty durable indeed.


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## Johnny_Yuma (Nov 29, 2009)

> How about durability/hardness of the ARM-R-SEAL oil based Urethane?
> 
> - bassett72
> 
> ...


My experience has shown Arm R Seal durability to be less than I look for, but I build a lot of table tops too.
It's not a product I use very much. But then again I never use brush on poly either.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

I don't build many tables, so there's definitely a difference there.

Just out of curiosity, what do you generally use for a finish?


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

> What do people do after the final coat? Anything, or once it dries, it dries. Mainly speaking to Arm-R-Seal…
> 
> OSU, I might try both methods and see what works best for me. So, if I could get your post final coat steps, I would appreciate it.
> 
> - bassett72


Not sure what you mean "both methods", brush or wipe? Post final coat - depends heavily what the piece is and what I'm after. Usually needs some wet sanding with 800-1000, rub down with steel wool or scotchbrite, depending on desired gloss various auto finish compounds, finish with car polish or paste wax. I use a dual action buffer for larger flat surfaces. Sorry but I dont have a one-size-fits-all method. For furniture I usually spray wb finishes these days.


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## Johnny_Yuma (Nov 29, 2009)

> I don t build many tables, so there s definitely a difference there.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, what do you generally use for a finish?
> 
> - jonah


95% Waterborne. Mostly Emtech 8000CV and Milesi


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## bassett72 (Jan 30, 2018)

> I don t build many tables, so there s definitely a difference there.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, what do you generally use for a finish?
> 
> ...


Drew, are you spraying or wiping on? Do you feel the Emtech is as durable as Poly or Arm-R-Seal?


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## Vindex (Feb 24, 2016)

Don't forget about the paper bag trick to smooth out the final coat after it cures: https://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/brown-paper-bag-trick


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

> What do people do after the final coat?
> 
> - bassett72
> 
> ...


+1 on the beer. But for those times when I get a big head and feel I have outdone myself I break out the good stuff, Ukrainian Vodka.

LOL


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## bassett72 (Jan 30, 2018)

Guys, I have a dilemma I need your input on. I've put 4 coats of Minwax Wipe On Clear Gloss on my bench, was planning on doing 2 more. After it sat for a day I decided to sit on it to see how it felt and it is like an ice rink…... It is only a 2×10 so if any one catches just the edge, they are bound to slip right off. What do I now to make it so it isn't so slick???


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## EarlS (Dec 21, 2011)

I wouldn't worry about the finish being to slick for someone to sit on the bench without sliding off. Between the top of the bench being horizontal and the friction caused by your pants you won't slide off it unless you are deliberately trying to.

If you are worried about slipperiness, get some 0000 steel wool and buff the finish with it. It will take off some of the sheen but it might also give you a little more grip.

If it looks good with 4 coats I'd call it finished. You can put too many coats on and wind up with the finish looking like plastic and cloudy.


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## bassett72 (Jan 30, 2018)

It looks fine, very shiny. Just worried about durability. So you think 4 coats of wipe on Minwax is good?

Here is my project with pics… Thoughts?

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/369385


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

If it looks good to you then it probably is. This is a very subjective area. As Earl mentioned more film thickness can look more plastic. Unless the surface will get continuous harsh use, like a dining table used every day with kids and constantly being banged, dishes slid, and wiped down with chemicals, its probably good. MW poly is tough stuff. If it were to wear through in years to come, it is possible to lightly sand and recoat.


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## bassett72 (Jan 30, 2018)

OK, so I should let it sit about a week before use, correct?


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Yes


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