# So you want to go pro



## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

*For now I'm gathering my thoughts*

OK boys and girls or OK girls and boys This is my first attempt at a "blog". I don't even understand what it is. To start with, it is my first priority to be FUNNY. At my age, if you ask a woman or a man what is the most important thing in a marriage they will say a sense of humor. Those of you 40+ out there know what I mean.

So you want to start a business. This hopefully will be a series of do's and don'ts of starting your own woodworking (((or what ever ((for the Wife(her name is Sue))))) business. That's what happens when you try to be politically correct. Someone (or was it someones wife) mentioned the "wife" didn't think the wives liked being called the "wife" or… You get the idea don't you. Did you know (or remember) that there was a time when unknown gender was masculine. That was proper English as was a ship was feminine. Not "he or she" did this or did that.

This is going to be a recap of what I (we) have gone through, Thought about, wrestled with, or just plain did to get this business going. I (we) live in California where government thinks it should control your every move. The part that drives me crazy is so many think this is the way this state should be. That is, just as long as it does not apply to them. We adapt and learn to live with all of the regulations and the nosy neighbors that make you law abiding. Except for New York, you all should have an easer time with regulations than I did.

I will discuss business licenses, resale numbers, tax I.D.'s, permits, arts and crafts shows (and their fees), Wholesale selling, and the dreaded arts and craft show commissions. I am still gathering my thoughts as to how to organize this. Therefore the title … look up.


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## cajunpen (Apr 9, 2007)

odie said:


> *For now I'm gathering my thoughts*
> 
> OK boys and girls or OK girls and boys This is my first attempt at a "blog". I don't even understand what it is. To start with, it is my first priority to be FUNNY. At my age, if you ask a woman or a man what is the most important thing in a marriage they will say a sense of humor. Those of you 40+ out there know what I mean.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a good topic Odie - there are a bunch of the younger (and not so younger) guys and gals out there thinking about ways to make their love for woodworking pay for itself. My opinion is that once you start trying to sell your woodworking (at least at the level I am at, a hobbyist) it becomes a second job and I don't want another job - I want to retire and enjoy woodworking ) Should be a good read though and will surely help somebody.


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

odie said:


> *For now I'm gathering my thoughts*
> 
> OK boys and girls or OK girls and boys This is my first attempt at a "blog". I don't even understand what it is. To start with, it is my first priority to be FUNNY. At my age, if you ask a woman or a man what is the most important thing in a marriage they will say a sense of humor. Those of you 40+ out there know what I mean.
> 
> ...


Go Go Go. Good start Odie.


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## Grumpy (Nov 9, 2007)

odie said:


> *For now I'm gathering my thoughts*
> 
> OK boys and girls or OK girls and boys This is my first attempt at a "blog". I don't even understand what it is. To start with, it is my first priority to be FUNNY. At my age, if you ask a woman or a man what is the most important thing in a marriage they will say a sense of humor. Those of you 40+ out there know what I mean.
> 
> ...


Well on the way Odie, don't look back now.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

odie said:


> *For now I'm gathering my thoughts*
> 
> OK boys and girls or OK girls and boys This is my first attempt at a "blog". I don't even understand what it is. To start with, it is my first priority to be FUNNY. At my age, if you ask a woman or a man what is the most important thing in a marriage they will say a sense of humor. Those of you 40+ out there know what I mean.
> 
> ...


an interesting journey. 
(and I like ramblings/gathering of thoughts)


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## rjack (Nov 5, 2007)

odie said:


> *For now I'm gathering my thoughts*
> 
> OK boys and girls or OK girls and boys This is my first attempt at a "blog". I don't even understand what it is. To start with, it is my first priority to be FUNNY. At my age, if you ask a woman or a man what is the most important thing in a marriage they will say a sense of humor. Those of you 40+ out there know what I mean.
> 
> ...


Awesome! I look forward to your insights and experiences.


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## bbrooks (Jan 3, 2007)

odie said:


> *For now I'm gathering my thoughts*
> 
> OK boys and girls or OK girls and boys This is my first attempt at a "blog". I don't even understand what it is. To start with, it is my first priority to be FUNNY. At my age, if you ask a woman or a man what is the most important thing in a marriage they will say a sense of humor. Those of you 40+ out there know what I mean.
> 
> ...


A great topic Odie. I am looking forward to taking the journey down that road with you. Since I live in California too, I am sure I can relate to many things you will talk about.


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## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

*Business Plan or not to Business Plan*

Shame on us, we don't have a business plan. Never did and never will have one. We knew what we wanted to accomplish. Banks and loan institutions insist on you having a business plan. All professional people (lawyers, accountants, and the like) will advise you to have one. I didn't need a loan to get started, but if you are one that does need a loan, start writing. A bank will want to know that you have all of your ducks in a row. This business plan will be put in front of loan and management people without you being present to explain unclear details. So, be very concise in your writings. Get some help with this if you need to. I know I would have to sweet talk the little woman. Maybe promise to do the laundry or something. I don't understand her demands, I got her a new mop for Christmas.

Here is a little common sense sermon to chew on. Think failure … you will fail. Think success … you will succeed. When you start thinking about this endeavor, get your information from those who have succeeded in a like business. You don't want advice from a failure. Just ask yourself, what will they teach me? That said, I can now get off of my bully pulpit.

In the later installments I will cover such exciting topics as: wholesale vs. retail, becoming legal, sole proprietorship vs. incorporating, paying your way, pricing structure, art galleries, and many many more to keep you wide awake. These will be common sense plus my very trying experiences with, promoters, governments, retailers, customers, and fellow artists.

It's still snowing out there. Three feet and still counting.

Shameless Promotion: http://www.dustnlint.com


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

odie said:


> *Business Plan or not to Business Plan*
> 
> Shame on us, we don't have a business plan. Never did and never will have one. We knew what we wanted to accomplish. Banks and loan institutions insist on you having a business plan. All professional people (lawyers, accountants, and the like) will advise you to have one. I didn't need a loan to get started, but if you are one that does need a loan, start writing. A bank will want to know that you have all of your ducks in a row. This business plan will be put in front of loan and management people without you being present to explain unclear details. So, be very concise in your writings. Get some help with this if you need to. I know I would have to sweet talk the little woman. Maybe promise to do the laundry or something. I don't understand her demands, I got her a new mop for Christmas.
> 
> ...


Well I'm glad it's snowing that will keep you in the shop. Are you snowed in or snowed out. Whats the temp.

Great Start Odie.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

odie said:


> *Business Plan or not to Business Plan*
> 
> Shame on us, we don't have a business plan. Never did and never will have one. We knew what we wanted to accomplish. Banks and loan institutions insist on you having a business plan. All professional people (lawyers, accountants, and the like) will advise you to have one. I didn't need a loan to get started, but if you are one that does need a loan, start writing. A bank will want to know that you have all of your ducks in a row. This business plan will be put in front of loan and management people without you being present to explain unclear details. So, be very concise in your writings. Get some help with this if you need to. I know I would have to sweet talk the little woman. Maybe promise to do the laundry or something. I don't understand her demands, I got her a new mop for Christmas.
> 
> ...


sure is a lot to think about!


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## matsonian (Jan 8, 2008)

odie said:


> *Business Plan or not to Business Plan*
> 
> Shame on us, we don't have a business plan. Never did and never will have one. We knew what we wanted to accomplish. Banks and loan institutions insist on you having a business plan. All professional people (lawyers, accountants, and the like) will advise you to have one. I didn't need a loan to get started, but if you are one that does need a loan, start writing. A bank will want to know that you have all of your ducks in a row. This business plan will be put in front of loan and management people without you being present to explain unclear details. So, be very concise in your writings. Get some help with this if you need to. I know I would have to sweet talk the little woman. Maybe promise to do the laundry or something. I don't understand her demands, I got her a new mop for Christmas.
> 
> ...


Bravo! I am a huge advocate of the death of business plans for the average entrepreneur. However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't plan. Most entrepreneurs who don't need to approach bankers or financiers should just develop a simple, living, strategic plan like the one created with the QuickPlanner Plus method.


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## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

*Business Person vs Manufacturer*

Along the way, we made a very conscience decision to offer our products at prices most people that visited arts and crafts shows could afford. We are both very capable of making the perfect art quality products. You know what I mean, cut around the imperfection instead of putting it on the inside out of sight. Using 10 coats of finish instead of 6. My personal favorite, and the one I use, is to make 10 boxes at once instead of only one. Over half of my time is spent setting up a machine to do a task rather than the task itself. If it takes 15 minutes to set up the table saw to cut four sides of a box, why not cut four sides of ten boxes? You have to pass the cost of the wood on to the customer, so buy wisely. If you decide to go the very artsy path, you can take more time, price your items higher, and sell fewer of them. It will be a personal choice like deciding on a high priced hooker or a quickie in an alley.

Another very big decision is to sell wholesale or retail. I have for the most part done both. In a perfect world, a retailer will come to your house and pay you what you want, and leave with your product. After five years of doing this, I have some bad news for the woodworker. If your product has a use (no matter how beautiful) it will demand a lower price than a piece of fine art that hangs on a wall. Sorry, It is a "REAL" fact of life in the real world. Understand, I am talking generalities here. Not all buyers think this way, and some will tell you your prices are too low. Back to my thought, this retailer is going to double (yes double) your price. He will want you to put your work on consignment. If you can sell it for less and avoid consignment, do it! If the retailer didn't buy it, what vested interest does he have in selling it or even taking care of it. I have had a lot of my work ruined because of uncaring retailers. So take less if you have to. After all, you incurred no expense trying to sell it.

By going wholesale, you will avoid all sorts of head aches big and small. Here are just a few: sales tax, craft fairs and their promoters, Credit card companies, insurance companies (to insure you against the clumsy), and tent and display needs. Also there is one thing that is near and dear to my heart, setting up your tent and display then taking it all down again after you're done. It's a lot of work and wholesale avoids this. However, there is one thing you would surely miss by going wholesale. This is the feeling you get when people enter your booth and stand there with their mouths open in amazement. All of the back pains, blisters, saw dust lungs, and cuts and scrapes just melt away. The questions you get to answer that make you feel like a college professor in front of a lecture hall. These things I can not and will not give up. That word "praise" somehow sticks with me.

Oh, another foot of snow fell last night. That brings the total to around four feet so far. After this I will be outside. According to YAHOO! News is raining iguanas in Florida. I'll take the snow any day.

Shameless Promotion: http://www.dustnlint.com


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

odie said:


> *Business Person vs Manufacturer*
> 
> Along the way, we made a very conscience decision to offer our products at prices most people that visited arts and crafts shows could afford. We are both very capable of making the perfect art quality products. You know what I mean, cut around the imperfection instead of putting it on the inside out of sight. Using 10 coats of finish instead of 6. My personal favorite, and the one I use, is to make 10 boxes at once instead of only one. Over half of my time is spent setting up a machine to do a task rather than the task itself. If it takes 15 minutes to set up the table saw to cut four sides of a box, why not cut four sides of ten boxes? You have to pass the cost of the wood on to the customer, so buy wisely. If you decide to go the very artsy path, you can take more time, price your items higher, and sell fewer of them. It will be a personal choice like deciding on a high priced hooker or a quickie in an alley.
> 
> ...


Another great addition to your blog. You need to show a couple of pictures of your and your wifes item when you refer to them.

Otherwise - well you know the story.


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## mot (May 8, 2007)

odie said:


> *Business Person vs Manufacturer*
> 
> Along the way, we made a very conscience decision to offer our products at prices most people that visited arts and crafts shows could afford. We are both very capable of making the perfect art quality products. You know what I mean, cut around the imperfection instead of putting it on the inside out of sight. Using 10 coats of finish instead of 6. My personal favorite, and the one I use, is to make 10 boxes at once instead of only one. Over half of my time is spent setting up a machine to do a task rather than the task itself. If it takes 15 minutes to set up the table saw to cut four sides of a box, why not cut four sides of ten boxes? You have to pass the cost of the wood on to the customer, so buy wisely. If you decide to go the very artsy path, you can take more time, price your items higher, and sell fewer of them. It will be a personal choice like deciding on a high priced hooker or a quickie in an alley.
> 
> ...


Yeah, Odie. You write well, but lets have some pictures, man! Thanks for this series. It's a good one to follow.


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## toddc (Mar 6, 2007)

odie said:


> *Business Person vs Manufacturer*
> 
> Along the way, we made a very conscience decision to offer our products at prices most people that visited arts and crafts shows could afford. We are both very capable of making the perfect art quality products. You know what I mean, cut around the imperfection instead of putting it on the inside out of sight. Using 10 coats of finish instead of 6. My personal favorite, and the one I use, is to make 10 boxes at once instead of only one. Over half of my time is spent setting up a machine to do a task rather than the task itself. If it takes 15 minutes to set up the table saw to cut four sides of a box, why not cut four sides of ten boxes? You have to pass the cost of the wood on to the customer, so buy wisely. If you decide to go the very artsy path, you can take more time, price your items higher, and sell fewer of them. It will be a personal choice like deciding on a high priced hooker or a quickie in an alley.
> 
> ...


Odie, thanks for bringing this side of the craft to light. It is one of the areas most don't think FORWARD to.

You brought up some great points. Thanks.


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## gbvinc (Aug 6, 2007)

odie said:


> *Business Person vs Manufacturer*
> 
> Along the way, we made a very conscience decision to offer our products at prices most people that visited arts and crafts shows could afford. We are both very capable of making the perfect art quality products. You know what I mean, cut around the imperfection instead of putting it on the inside out of sight. Using 10 coats of finish instead of 6. My personal favorite, and the one I use, is to make 10 boxes at once instead of only one. Over half of my time is spent setting up a machine to do a task rather than the task itself. If it takes 15 minutes to set up the table saw to cut four sides of a box, why not cut four sides of ten boxes? You have to pass the cost of the wood on to the customer, so buy wisely. If you decide to go the very artsy path, you can take more time, price your items higher, and sell fewer of them. It will be a personal choice like deciding on a high priced hooker or a quickie in an alley.
> 
> ...


I have had pieces ruined because of uncaring retailers also …very good point. Good job, keep them coming.


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## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

*Photos for Karson and Tom(mot)*

O. K. you guys. You say you needed photographs. I really don't understand. Guys, one is white and one is green. I hope this helps you get a visual. We should get back on topic for #5.



















I took this picture today.

Shameless Promotion: http://www.dustnlint.com


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

odie said:


> *Photos for Karson and Tom(mot)*
> 
> O. K. you guys. You say you needed photographs. I really don't understand. Guys, one is white and one is green. I hope this helps you get a visual. We should get back on topic for #5.
> 
> ...


Now your are talking. Greenbacks that what we all want to hear.

What is black and white and red all over. Odie home.


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## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

odie said:


> *Photos for Karson and Tom(mot)*
> 
> O. K. you guys. You say you needed photographs. I really don't understand. Guys, one is white and one is green. I hope this helps you get a visual. We should get back on topic for #5.
> 
> ...


Now Now Now . Reread the end of number 3


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

odie said:


> *Photos for Karson and Tom(mot)*
> 
> O. K. you guys. You say you needed photographs. I really don't understand. Guys, one is white and one is green. I hope this helps you get a visual. We should get back on topic for #5.
> 
> ...


Now thats some snow!


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## mrtrim (Oct 11, 2007)

odie said:


> *Photos for Karson and Tom(mot)*
> 
> O. K. you guys. You say you needed photographs. I really don't understand. Guys, one is white and one is green. I hope this helps you get a visual. We should get back on topic for #5.
> 
> ...


hey odi send me a close up of a snow shovel , i want to show it to my friends !! lol


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

odie said:


> *Photos for Karson and Tom(mot)*
> 
> O. K. you guys. You say you needed photographs. I really don't understand. Guys, one is white and one is green. I hope this helps you get a visual. We should get back on topic for #5.
> 
> ...


Well 
a double winter blizzard.

Iguanas and snow.


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## mot (May 8, 2007)

odie said:


> *Photos for Karson and Tom(mot)*
> 
> O. K. you guys. You say you needed photographs. I really don't understand. Guys, one is white and one is green. I hope this helps you get a visual. We should get back on topic for #5.
> 
> ...


I just like pictures. Thanks for the post! You had some snow there, did ya? This is what it looked like out my back door this morning:


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## cajunpen (Apr 9, 2007)

odie said:


> *Photos for Karson and Tom(mot)*
> 
> O. K. you guys. You say you needed photographs. I really don't understand. Guys, one is white and one is green. I hope this helps you get a visual. We should get back on topic for #5.
> 
> ...


I don't know about all that snow stuff. It was clear and 76 degrees here today. In fact, it's Midnight and only 65 degrees right now. Don't know how you guys stand all of that snow, of course you are probably wondering how we stand all those hurricanes ).

*Geaux Tigers!*


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## Grumpy (Nov 9, 2007)

odie said:


> *Photos for Karson and Tom(mot)*
> 
> O. K. you guys. You say you needed photographs. I really don't understand. Guys, one is white and one is green. I hope this helps you get a visual. We should get back on topic for #5.
> 
> ...


Great looking lizards Odie, How about this one in the back yard down under yesterday!


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

odie said:


> *Photos for Karson and Tom(mot)*
> 
> O. K. you guys. You say you needed photographs. I really don't understand. Guys, one is white and one is green. I hope this helps you get a visual. We should get back on topic for #5.
> 
> ...


haha perfect, Odie… we have pictures!!!


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## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

*Becoming Legal*

Well, hell, let's get back to it. First off these entries will be coming sporadically. You need to know we do have a business to run. And it's tax time. I have started something here that could be way over my head. After all English is like a second language to me. No, no, no, it's because I attended Los Angeles City Schools, not because I'm an immigrant.
Hell, I took dumb bell English many times at Santa Monica City College. So it takes me a little longer to write these than most of you. Thank you Karson and Martin for telling me about "copy and paste" from my word processor. And thank "mac" for a very easy to use dictionary. As Dadoo "wood" say, "nuff said" …. ONWARD !

Becoming legal is the glue that will hold your business directions together. There are so many pit falls here waiting for you. Here is the order in which I handled these things. I got this advice from only one person, a CPA friend who does our taxes. He advised us to go with sole proprietorship rather than forming a corporation. It had something to do with having to file our corporation meeting minutes with the state. It does protect your personal property against law suites that are filed against your business. A lawyer will tell you to incorporate. This is one reason we carry a $1,000,000.00 liability insurance policy.

Number two was to get a business license from the county. Before they issued the license to me, I had to go to departments such as public safety and the county fire marshall (lacquer is very flammable). These were all in the same building complex, so it was a piece of cake. It took three hours tops. They waived the usual fee of $125.00 because of me being a Viet Nam veteran. I love Placer County. Oh, there is one question they asked me: " what about the noise and your neighbors "? I told the truth about only using the power tools between 9:00 am and 5:00 pm out of respect for my neighbors.

This is going to be a little longer than I wanted, but lets get this topic out of the way. For those of you that have been to our web site, you probably noticed we used our sir name as part of the name of the business. This was to avoid going through the fictitious name for businesses process. In California you post your fictitious name in a newspaper for three weeks. This way, anyone already using it can stop you, ha ha. Fat chance they're reading a Truckee newspaper. Anyway, this is why we are not just "Dust'n Lint". Our sir name isn't fictitious, and therefore no process to go through.

And last but not least the dreaded State of California resale number. This allows you to collect state, county, and city sales taxes … Oh Boy ! I was not looking forward to dealing with the state. Well, would you believe, they made it very simple to collect everyones money. I waited for ten minutes, then sat down at someone's desk, and answered his questions while he typed the form. I then looked it over, signed it, and then he gave me my copy. And then I was legal. I was free to go sell, sell, sell.










This is a sign in our booth that brings a lot of laughs.

The same shameless promotion: http://www.dustnlint.com


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

odie said:


> *Becoming Legal*
> 
> Well, hell, let's get back to it. First off these entries will be coming sporadically. You need to know we do have a business to run. And it's tax time. I have started something here that could be way over my head. After all English is like a second language to me. No, no, no, it's because I attended Los Angeles City Schools, not because I'm an immigrant.
> Hell, I took dumb bell English many times at Santa Monica City College. So it takes me a little longer to write these than most of you. Thank you Karson and Martin for telling me about "copy and paste" from my word processor. And thank "mac" for a very easy to use dictionary. As Dadoo "wood" say, "nuff said" …. ONWARD !
> ...


Great as always Odie. Nice job.


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## Greg3G (Mar 20, 2007)

odie said:


> *Becoming Legal*
> 
> Well, hell, let's get back to it. First off these entries will be coming sporadically. You need to know we do have a business to run. And it's tax time. I have started something here that could be way over my head. After all English is like a second language to me. No, no, no, it's because I attended Los Angeles City Schools, not because I'm an immigrant.
> Hell, I took dumb bell English many times at Santa Monica City College. So it takes me a little longer to write these than most of you. Thank you Karson and Martin for telling me about "copy and paste" from my word processor. And thank "mac" for a very easy to use dictionary. As Dadoo "wood" say, "nuff said" …. ONWARD !
> ...


Love the sign.

I've talk to my Lawyer, he gave me the same advice. He said not to worry about incorporating until I bring on employees, if I ever do. The one thing that may throw a wrench in it is if I do move to TN and start working with my brother. We'll have to incorporate. With the housing market the way it is going that may be a few years off.


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## Russel (Aug 13, 2007)

odie said:


> *Becoming Legal*
> 
> Well, hell, let's get back to it. First off these entries will be coming sporadically. You need to know we do have a business to run. And it's tax time. I have started something here that could be way over my head. After all English is like a second language to me. No, no, no, it's because I attended Los Angeles City Schools, not because I'm an immigrant.
> Hell, I took dumb bell English many times at Santa Monica City College. So it takes me a little longer to write these than most of you. Thank you Karson and Martin for telling me about "copy and paste" from my word processor. And thank "mac" for a very easy to use dictionary. As Dadoo "wood" say, "nuff said" …. ONWARD !
> ...


This has been a good series Odie. Very valuable information. Thanks for gathering it into one place.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

odie said:


> *Becoming Legal*
> 
> Well, hell, let's get back to it. First off these entries will be coming sporadically. You need to know we do have a business to run. And it's tax time. I have started something here that could be way over my head. After all English is like a second language to me. No, no, no, it's because I attended Los Angeles City Schools, not because I'm an immigrant.
> Hell, I took dumb bell English many times at Santa Monica City College. So it takes me a little longer to write these than most of you. Thank you Karson and Martin for telling me about "copy and paste" from my word processor. And thank "mac" for a very easy to use dictionary. As Dadoo "wood" say, "nuff said" …. ONWARD !
> ...


excellent blog. Well written.

love the sign.. reminds me of when I did income tax and my life was threatened by someone because I was taking all of his money through taxes…. I'm not the government. I'm just helping you with your form! sheesh.


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## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

*Paying Your Way*

Well here we go again. Can you be a book keeper? Well, how about a good record keeper? When we started this little endeavor we asked, asked, and asked some more questions. Most of the questions, we asked our friend and tax accountant. He handles many businesses' taxes and accounting problems in the state of California. I need to point out something here, accountants speak a different language than woodworkers. He was asked such questions as: "what", "what did you say", and "what the hell does that mean"? The last I asked the most. The highlights of these stimulating conversations will follow.

The first and most important is to save everything. Your saying, "easy", right? Not so fast my fellow woodworkers. How many times have you brought a bag home from the hardware store? Do you put it in the shop take out the receipt and walk it into the house? I never had before. A week later, who knows where that receipt is? So, Sue and I needed a common place to put these things. We do, and it works about 75% of the time.

Use the double receipt method. I charge it or write a check for it, then I have a paper trail of my purchases to fall back on. Also, these checking and charge accounts should be separate from your household accounts. Business is business, and household is household and keep it that way.

I have kept everything separate. My shop (garage) is household, and my tools are part of the business. We have done it this way all along. It is a personal choice that has to be made. If you start deducting the use of your house for business you will save a little on taxes each year. But, when you sell this house, it's a whole new ball game. I won't go into that anymore. Have a nice long talk with an accountant before you make this decision. It's a big one that can bite you down the road.

Both cars have tripmeters in them. This is a little thing you think. Mileage is a very large deduction at tax time. We do most of our shopping in Reno and we are religious about using our tripmeters. When we get home, we enter the results of the tripmeters on a calendar. This method works great, but do whatever works best for you.










These topics make it tough to think of the right pictures to post. The last topic I almost posted one of Raymond Burr playing Perry Mason.

Can you believe it's snowing again? And let's hear it for: http://www.dustnlint.com


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

odie said:


> *Paying Your Way*
> 
> Well here we go again. Can you be a book keeper? Well, how about a good record keeper? When we started this little endeavor we asked, asked, and asked some more questions. Most of the questions, we asked our friend and tax accountant. He handles many businesses' taxes and accounting problems in the state of California. I need to point out something here, accountants speak a different language than woodworkers. He was asked such questions as: "what", "what did you say", and "what the hell does that mean"? The last I asked the most. The highlights of these stimulating conversations will follow.
> 
> ...


Good Odie. Keep those receipts. You've spent the money you might as well reduce your taxes because of it.


----------



## dennis (Aug 3, 2006)

odie said:


> *Paying Your Way*
> 
> Well here we go again. Can you be a book keeper? Well, how about a good record keeper? When we started this little endeavor we asked, asked, and asked some more questions. Most of the questions, we asked our friend and tax accountant. He handles many businesses' taxes and accounting problems in the state of California. I need to point out something here, accountants speak a different language than woodworkers. He was asked such questions as: "what", "what did you say", and "what the hell does that mean"? The last I asked the most. The highlights of these stimulating conversations will follow.
> 
> ...


Yep we got snow and taxes. Wouldn't be January with out em.


----------



## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

odie said:


> *Paying Your Way*
> 
> Well here we go again. Can you be a book keeper? Well, how about a good record keeper? When we started this little endeavor we asked, asked, and asked some more questions. Most of the questions, we asked our friend and tax accountant. He handles many businesses' taxes and accounting problems in the state of California. I need to point out something here, accountants speak a different language than woodworkers. He was asked such questions as: "what", "what did you say", and "what the hell does that mean"? The last I asked the most. The highlights of these stimulating conversations will follow.
> 
> ...


those receipts are nasty.. they disappear so easily!! my best success has been to put them in a compartment of my purse at the purchase (that should work for you, shouldn't it Odie??) haha and then i collect them there until I remember to put them where they are supposed to go.


----------



## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

odie said:


> *Paying Your Way*
> 
> Well here we go again. Can you be a book keeper? Well, how about a good record keeper? When we started this little endeavor we asked, asked, and asked some more questions. Most of the questions, we asked our friend and tax accountant. He handles many businesses' taxes and accounting problems in the state of California. I need to point out something here, accountants speak a different language than woodworkers. He was asked such questions as: "what", "what did you say", and "what the hell does that mean"? The last I asked the most. The highlights of these stimulating conversations will follow.
> 
> ...


I agree that keeping track of receipts can be problematic. One of the ways to resolve this is to start keeping financial records electronically (Quicken/ Quick Books). Another change that could be made is to quit paying with cash. This way all expenses (via receipts of course) can be recorded. It takes discipline and practice, but like any other skill keeping track of expenses becomes easier with practice and perseverance.


----------



## johnjoiner (Sep 28, 2007)

odie said:


> *Paying Your Way*
> 
> Well here we go again. Can you be a book keeper? Well, how about a good record keeper? When we started this little endeavor we asked, asked, and asked some more questions. Most of the questions, we asked our friend and tax accountant. He handles many businesses' taxes and accounting problems in the state of California. I need to point out something here, accountants speak a different language than woodworkers. He was asked such questions as: "what", "what did you say", and "what the hell does that mean"? The last I asked the most. The highlights of these stimulating conversations will follow.
> 
> ...


I'm liking your series Odie. I hope I can put the knowledge to use some day.


----------



## Greg3G (Mar 20, 2007)

odie said:


> *Paying Your Way*
> 
> Well here we go again. Can you be a book keeper? Well, how about a good record keeper? When we started this little endeavor we asked, asked, and asked some more questions. Most of the questions, we asked our friend and tax accountant. He handles many businesses' taxes and accounting problems in the state of California. I need to point out something here, accountants speak a different language than woodworkers. He was asked such questions as: "what", "what did you say", and "what the hell does that mean"? The last I asked the most. The highlights of these stimulating conversations will follow.
> 
> ...


I found a neat way to handle receipts while I was Scoutmaster for a few years. I carried one of those bank bags with the zipper on the top when I went into the store or what ever. It works just like Deb's purse but I don't get funny looks from the rest of the guys standing in line and I lost a lot fewer receipts that way.

My biggest down fall was the odometer. I always forgot to record it.

BTW…you can deduct mileage for charity work, and any supplies you provide to charity. So if you happen to work with the Boy scouts, Girl scouts, or Habitat for Humanity. Keep track of it. I was regularly deducting around $2700 a year just working with the Scouts.


----------



## toddc (Mar 6, 2007)

odie said:


> *Paying Your Way*
> 
> Well here we go again. Can you be a book keeper? Well, how about a good record keeper? When we started this little endeavor we asked, asked, and asked some more questions. Most of the questions, we asked our friend and tax accountant. He handles many businesses' taxes and accounting problems in the state of California. I need to point out something here, accountants speak a different language than woodworkers. He was asked such questions as: "what", "what did you say", and "what the hell does that mean"? The last I asked the most. The highlights of these stimulating conversations will follow.
> 
> ...


Yep, I track mileage everyday. The trip from Montana to Ohio racks 'em up.

I keep my receipts in order.

And I gladly pay my accountant.


----------



## Mario (Apr 23, 2007)

odie said:


> *Paying Your Way*
> 
> Well here we go again. Can you be a book keeper? Well, how about a good record keeper? When we started this little endeavor we asked, asked, and asked some more questions. Most of the questions, we asked our friend and tax accountant. He handles many businesses' taxes and accounting problems in the state of California. I need to point out something here, accountants speak a different language than woodworkers. He was asked such questions as: "what", "what did you say", and "what the hell does that mean"? The last I asked the most. The highlights of these stimulating conversations will follow.
> 
> ...


Thank you all for the advice. Especially to odie for starting this thread.


----------



## Muzhik (Jan 26, 2007)

odie said:


> *Paying Your Way*
> 
> Well here we go again. Can you be a book keeper? Well, how about a good record keeper? When we started this little endeavor we asked, asked, and asked some more questions. Most of the questions, we asked our friend and tax accountant. He handles many businesses' taxes and accounting problems in the state of California. I need to point out something here, accountants speak a different language than woodworkers. He was asked such questions as: "what", "what did you say", and "what the hell does that mean"? The last I asked the most. The highlights of these stimulating conversations will follow.
> 
> ...


Is that a photo of a Mazerati speedometer/odometer? Man! I was worried that I would be a "starving artist" if I took the leap into woodworking as a business. You must be rollin' in it if you drive your Mazreati to Reno to pick up supplies for your business! No question now, I'm goin' for it!

Seriously, though, I just found your blog and I'm loving it. My wife and I are really thinking about taking a similar path after I retire from the AF (8 more years). We'll have my retirement to fall back on (though there's no way to really "live on it") and the added benefit of not having to worry about health insurance.

Thanks for taking the time to put this blog together.


----------



## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

*Pinky Up You Artists*

Let me explain this small delay. I work at an art gallery one day a month. You know these places don't you? People sip their tea with their pinky up in the air there. You lugs would never fit in there LIKE I DO. "You do my ass", you are to saying to yourself. What tipped you off? My stuff doesn't hang on a wall? If that doesn't mean anything to you, start at the beginning of this series. This is an artists' co-op.

Does your community have an artists' co-op? Admit it, do you even know? This is just like MsDebbieP and her newly found "wood place". I didn't know we had one until someone approached me at an arts and crafts show representing one. Thus, this was my introduction to the artsy-fartsy crowd of North Lake Tahoe and Truckee. We ( I am a member now) are a nonprofit for the arts known as North Tahoe Arts or just "NTA". My site has a page called "NTA" with a link dedicated to the North Tahoe Arts Gift Shop.

This is a great way (if you have to) to go wholesale. They take care of all the sales taxes and credit card stuff. With the NTA I have to pay a yearly dues of $80.00 for two of us. Then I have to pay $50.00 to be in the gift shop. I work one day a month, plus they keep 30% of any sale of my woodwork. So I raise my prices a little. You also get to talk to "your" customers.

My fellow artists take really good care of my work. There is never a worry about it not being taken care of. And when they sell something, they call me, so I can restock. Guys and Gals This is the best of both worlds. If you have such a place in your town … dive in. The artists (mostly women) will have such a profound respect for you because of your "common sense" (being a woodworker you have … you too Allison). It's just plain absent from their daily lives. Anyway being someone of common sense as a woodworker is, you will be looked at as a father figure knowing a great deal. Believe this or not, give it a try, you will see.

Oh, and at these places, you will be called an "artist". I always have scraped knuckles from dragging them on the ground, what do I know of art. I'm a skilled craftsmen who makes things of wood. Here we are artists and this is a great place to take us from our normal routine. So, when you drink that beer, put your pinky in the air, and call yourself an artist.










This is the NTA building on the lake at Lake Tahoe. It's also an historical landmark.










This is the inside of the gift shop at NTA. There are also two separate galleries, one downstairs and one up.

Take a look at the gift shop at : http://www.dustnlint.com


----------



## rpmurphy509 (Nov 6, 2007)

odie said:


> *Pinky Up You Artists*
> 
> Let me explain this small delay. I work at an art gallery one day a month. You know these places don't you? People sip their tea with their pinky up in the air there. You lugs would never fit in there LIKE I DO. "You do my ass", you are to saying to yourself. What tipped you off? My stuff doesn't hang on a wall? If that doesn't mean anything to you, start at the beginning of this series. This is an artists' co-op.
> 
> ...


Looks like a fantastic place to showcase your work.
I'm a lug, a lug with a tiny bit of talent, but under
no circumstances am I an 'artist'.

Just last night I made an insert for my table saw
out of a scrap piece of Santana, can't imagine it
would ever be call an art piece  One mans junk…

How about some pictures of your showcased pieces?


----------



## bbrooks (Jan 3, 2007)

odie said:


> *Pinky Up You Artists*
> 
> Let me explain this small delay. I work at an art gallery one day a month. You know these places don't you? People sip their tea with their pinky up in the air there. You lugs would never fit in there LIKE I DO. "You do my ass", you are to saying to yourself. What tipped you off? My stuff doesn't hang on a wall? If that doesn't mean anything to you, start at the beginning of this series. This is an artists' co-op.
> 
> ...


It does look like a great shop. I wonder if there are some of those around here?

How does your work sell compared to the other artists? A few sales, more sales?


----------



## Karson (May 9, 2006)

odie said:


> *Pinky Up You Artists*
> 
> Let me explain this small delay. I work at an art gallery one day a month. You know these places don't you? People sip their tea with their pinky up in the air there. You lugs would never fit in there LIKE I DO. "You do my ass", you are to saying to yourself. What tipped you off? My stuff doesn't hang on a wall? If that doesn't mean anything to you, start at the beginning of this series. This is an artists' co-op.
> 
> ...


Great Odie.

Nice place. And someone who cares about your work.


----------



## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

odie said:


> *Pinky Up You Artists*
> 
> Let me explain this small delay. I work at an art gallery one day a month. You know these places don't you? People sip their tea with their pinky up in the air there. You lugs would never fit in there LIKE I DO. "You do my ass", you are to saying to yourself. What tipped you off? My stuff doesn't hang on a wall? If that doesn't mean anything to you, start at the beginning of this series. This is an artists' co-op.
> 
> ...


a great way to get your name known, to make some sales, and to connect with other artisans.


----------



## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

*I Are A Salesman*

Wow, I can't believe we've covered this much ground already. I think I have said about everything I wanted to about wholesale. If any of you lugs have questions about my wholesale experiences ask or forever hold your piece. I will be heading toward the retail side of our business now. The first time I thought of doing retail sales I was very intimidated by the whole process. When you get used to it, it's a piece of cake.

When I speak of retail, I mean the customer (end user of our hard work), and I are eye to eye. I am responsible for the manufacturing, warehousing, and selling of a product to a person that wants to purchase it. I will be responsible for the place of the sale, the way the sale is transacted (cash, check, or credit card), the display by which the customer picked his purchase, and his safety while he is there. It really sounds worse than it is.

We are not salesmen. We, on the other hand, are designers, creators, and builders of something unique that is to be used by someone. When I am face to face with a customer, I am not selling, I'm educating. This is the beauty of an arts and crafts show. Most of the "artists" here are not salesmen, but people that have a unique knowledge about what they are selling. Most of the people that visit these shows realize this and cherish their encounter with the "artist".

So, in the later installments, I think we can break up this arts and crafts show topic into useable bites. So meantime I will leave you with photographs of our booth. I want you to take a close look at it. You will notice that there are two artists sharing this booth. It is very unusual and creates whole new challenges.










Both of these photographs were taken in Kings Beach at Lake Tahoe last summer.










More booth photos can be seen at http://www.dustnlint.com take a look at "booth"


----------



## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

odie said:


> *I Are A Salesman*
> 
> Wow, I can't believe we've covered this much ground already. I think I have said about everything I wanted to about wholesale. If any of you lugs have questions about my wholesale experiences ask or forever hold your piece. I will be heading toward the retail side of our business now. The first time I thought of doing retail sales I was very intimidated by the whole process. When you get used to it, it's a piece of cake.
> 
> ...


Love the quilts, my wife is into making those…...........thats another story.

The bowls, at least from a distance look nice too…....I am a fan/collector.

I did *one* craft show *once*, my two girls were little back then and they made a small fortune. That said…..it was a disaster for this guy. Christmas tree fell over, one of the beach chairs I made snapped shut on a very wide lady, like a mouse trap. Took ten men and a boy to get her out and when she did get out she was flung like being stuck in a catapult….......she came up swinging and snorting and rutting like a bull.

Lucky I didnt get sued

20 years later…........and a little wiser


----------



## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

odie said:


> *I Are A Salesman*
> 
> Wow, I can't believe we've covered this much ground already. I think I have said about everything I wanted to about wholesale. If any of you lugs have questions about my wholesale experiences ask or forever hold your piece. I will be heading toward the retail side of our business now. The first time I thought of doing retail sales I was very intimidated by the whole process. When you get used to it, it's a piece of cake.
> 
> ...


another great blog.
Your display is very appealing! 
My Mom and my Aunt are what I'd call Master Quilters.. I, on the other hand, tried it once (about 5 stitches) and hated it! 
I really appreciate the work that is put into one of these pieces. 
And ditto re: woodworking!!!


----------



## Karson (May 9, 2006)

odie said:


> *I Are A Salesman*
> 
> Wow, I can't believe we've covered this much ground already. I think I have said about everything I wanted to about wholesale. If any of you lugs have questions about my wholesale experiences ask or forever hold your piece. I will be heading toward the retail side of our business now. The first time I thought of doing retail sales I was very intimidated by the whole process. When you get used to it, it's a piece of cake.
> 
> ...


Another great one Odie. Nice booth. By having two artists present, you can cover more area to keep small pieces from disapperaing.

At the Lee-valley booth at the woodshow They has a sign on the table that stated something like this.

"Some people think that these items are free. Please keep you eyes on the lookout for us, when were busy with someone else."


----------



## Harold (Nov 13, 2007)

odie said:


> *I Are A Salesman*
> 
> Wow, I can't believe we've covered this much ground already. I think I have said about everything I wanted to about wholesale. If any of you lugs have questions about my wholesale experiences ask or forever hold your piece. I will be heading toward the retail side of our business now. The first time I thought of doing retail sales I was very intimidated by the whole process. When you get used to it, it's a piece of cake.
> 
> ...


I recieved an email recently from a gallery that shares my work in regards to a piece that was a scale study for a piece that was commisioned a couple years ago. It's hard to keep from getting excited when someone expresses intrest in your work. But the the email ended with a question that has always caught me off guard, "what's my wholesale price" I don't know why I have trouble with that word. To me "wholesale" implies that I have 200 of these, and if you buy in bulk, then they should be cheaper, economy of scale and all. Hmmm, just thinkin out loud here. I do appreciate the market that the galleries make available, but it's just that word.


----------



## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

odie said:


> *I Are A Salesman*
> 
> Wow, I can't believe we've covered this much ground already. I think I have said about everything I wanted to about wholesale. If any of you lugs have questions about my wholesale experiences ask or forever hold your piece. I will be heading toward the retail side of our business now. The first time I thought of doing retail sales I was very intimidated by the whole process. When you get used to it, it's a piece of cake.
> 
> ...


I can make things, but I'm not a salesman!


----------



## rpmurphy509 (Nov 6, 2007)

odie said:


> *I Are A Salesman*
> 
> Wow, I can't believe we've covered this much ground already. I think I have said about everything I wanted to about wholesale. If any of you lugs have questions about my wholesale experiences ask or forever hold your piece. I will be heading toward the retail side of our business now. The first time I thought of doing retail sales I was very intimidated by the whole process. When you get used to it, it's a piece of cake.
> 
> ...


My wife would kill for that green and red quilt (I wouldn't mind having it either).
Would love to see some detail photos of those boxes beneath the segmented
bowls if you have the inclination. They look very interesting in the photo.


----------



## dennis (Aug 3, 2006)

odie said:


> *I Are A Salesman*
> 
> Wow, I can't believe we've covered this much ground already. I think I have said about everything I wanted to about wholesale. If any of you lugs have questions about my wholesale experiences ask or forever hold your piece. I will be heading toward the retail side of our business now. The first time I thought of doing retail sales I was very intimidated by the whole process. When you get used to it, it's a piece of cake.
> 
> ...


I'm beginning to understand the value of having someone do the sales. If I track the time and expense of getting a piece sold it far exceeds the manufacturing cost. Just finding a market is a miracle. If someone comes and finds me they get "wholesale" prices. If I have to go find them the price doubles and I'm usually losing money.


----------



## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

*The Arts and Crafts Show*

Ah, the arts and crafts (fair, show, exhibit, event) show. See we are already having a quandary. Some promoters are very choosy as to what you call their events. For this occasion we will call them shows. There are many things that determine which shows one participates in. New shows to you, it must be location and your calendar of events. You have heard the term, "location, location, location", haven't you? Believe it … live it.

Ask your self, "if I were well off, where would I live" ? That might be a good place to be in an arts and crafts show. One would think Beverly Hills would be a great place. From what I have read, it's very average. That's probably because we don't have known fancy labels on our products. Lake Tahoe is too small an area, right? Wrong, wrong, wrong, you with the reading skills. The one better, best, greatest group of people is the tourist. I know this (I are one sometimes) because 75% of my sales are to them. They always ask, "Why don't you do a show in San Francisco"? My answer is always, " because you are already here".

I don't know about you, but when we are on vacation we spend money more freely. It's just human nature I guess. I know when we do shows on the eastern side of the Sierra and near the flat lands, we bomb. Towns such as Reno and Bishop are what I am referring to. The tourists are there, but too spread out. And the locals all work for a living. We have done them both, and if you sell snow cones or s-- on a stick you will make thousands a day. If you sell art, the best way to put is, you won't.

But there are exceptions to this. Your promoter has the ability to break these rules. If your promoter has as much pride in what they do, as you do, stick to them like glue. They will have the ability to gather the right collection of talent to pull the right clientele to you from many miles around. There are also a few publications out there with very good reviews that are written by artists. In the west, one of these is "The Crafts Fair Guide". It is a pretty good source of what other artists are doing at other shows.










We seem to have the best of both worlds at Lake Tahoe and Truckee. We have location and we have very good promoters. That's why we are hesitant to travel and incur all of that added cost. After all, the bottom line is one of many reasons we do this. It's not the first though … the love of it is.

Let's hear it for the shameless promotion : http://www.dustnlint.com


----------



## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

odie said:


> *The Arts and Crafts Show*
> 
> Ah, the arts and crafts (fair, show, exhibit, event) show. See we are already having a quandary. Some promoters are very choosy as to what you call their events. For this occasion we will call them shows. There are many things that determine which shows one participates in. New shows to you, it must be location and your calendar of events. You have heard the term, "location, location, location", haven't you? Believe it … live it.
> 
> ...


I am thinking about going to a trade show. 30 miles from me is Monday trade days show which has about
1/4 million people there every month.


----------



## Paul (Mar 13, 2007)

odie said:


> *The Arts and Crafts Show*
> 
> Ah, the arts and crafts (fair, show, exhibit, event) show. See we are already having a quandary. Some promoters are very choosy as to what you call their events. For this occasion we will call them shows. There are many things that determine which shows one participates in. New shows to you, it must be location and your calendar of events. You have heard the term, "location, location, location", haven't you? Believe it … live it.
> 
> ...


Gary -

Canton?

What would you try to sell there? Lots of volume but my sense is that 95% of the folks (like me) are looking for a bargain or a "project" to work on don't you think? Or is there a section for your quality of work that I haven't run across? I do stick to the outside vendors and rarely darken the door of a pavillion.


----------



## Karson (May 9, 2006)

odie said:


> *The Arts and Crafts Show*
> 
> Ah, the arts and crafts (fair, show, exhibit, event) show. See we are already having a quandary. Some promoters are very choosy as to what you call their events. For this occasion we will call them shows. There are many things that determine which shows one participates in. New shows to you, it must be location and your calendar of events. You have heard the term, "location, location, location", haven't you? Believe it … live it.
> 
> ...


Great guide Odie.


----------



## Russel (Aug 13, 2007)

odie said:


> *The Arts and Crafts Show*
> 
> Ah, the arts and crafts (fair, show, exhibit, event) show. See we are already having a quandary. Some promoters are very choosy as to what you call their events. For this occasion we will call them shows. There are many things that determine which shows one participates in. New shows to you, it must be location and your calendar of events. You have heard the term, "location, location, location", haven't you? Believe it … live it.
> 
> ...


This is a great series. Lots of valuable information. Thanks for taking the time to write it.


----------



## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

odie said:


> *The Arts and Crafts Show*
> 
> Ah, the arts and crafts (fair, show, exhibit, event) show. See we are already having a quandary. Some promoters are very choosy as to what you call their events. For this occasion we will call them shows. There are many things that determine which shows one participates in. New shows to you, it must be location and your calendar of events. You have heard the term, "location, location, location", haven't you? Believe it … live it.
> 
> ...


Paul - Yes Canton. I was thinking some things just for the show, not my usual stuff.

Actually, I have never been. been meaning too for a couple of years now.

I have a couple of childrens toys that I think will do very well there.

Gary


----------



## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

odie said:


> *The Arts and Crafts Show*
> 
> Ah, the arts and crafts (fair, show, exhibit, event) show. See we are already having a quandary. Some promoters are very choosy as to what you call their events. For this occasion we will call them shows. There are many things that determine which shows one participates in. New shows to you, it must be location and your calendar of events. You have heard the term, "location, location, location", haven't you? Believe it … live it.
> 
> ...


keep this going. Great series


----------



## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

*The Promoter*

There has been a lot going on here, so the blog was the one thing that had to be cut back on. We are reaching the end of this topic, so if you have any questions that I might answer, I can add a couple of entries. I have to start turning some bowls to get ready for next summers shows.

We touched on promoters in the last entry. Most promoters are frustrated artists that know they can put on a better show than the promoter they are currently with. I work a lot with one of these. But she came to this conclusion 25 years ago. The dynamics of this economy have changed so drastically since she started this, It's left her kind of thinking in the dust. She thinks if she puts up a sign, they will come. That's after a bypass was put in routing traffic away from the event. This used to be one of her best shows. She is going to lose her artists. The fee for this show has been going up every year, but sales have been going down. Five years ago it was $200.00 for Memorial Day Weekend. It is now $275.00 for the same weekend with less people and sales. She used to have a waiting list for her 70 booths. Now she is lucky if she can draw 30 booths.

A couple of years ago I suggested we move the event. We would team up with the home show at the high school. There is three times the traffic and a double draw. I was told I didn't know what I was talking about. Time is passing her by, and she doesn't know it. Someone will probably take over her shows in a couple of years.

There is another promoter up here that is one class act. She has very strict rules and gathers the greatest talent I have ever seen in one place. Three times during the summer she puts us in a ski area parking lot on the west shore of Lake Tahoe. She charges us $150.00 for three days, but she adds a 10% commission on top of this. At first I said I would never do a show that charges a commission. Now I realize that if I don't do well, she doesn't do well. If I have a great weekend, so does she.

These three shows are so much fun to do. We take our motor home to the event and turn it into a mini-vacation. A lot of people think this is silly because we live a half hour away. I just tell them the motor home cost a lot of money and it seems silly to leave it in the driveway.

So, anyway, here are two very different promoters. I could write a book on all the different promoters. Like so many different groups that we will discuss, they all would like to get rich off of OUR hard work.










Here is another Arts and Crafts Show publication. 
And don't forget : http://www.dustnlint.com


----------



## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

odie said:


> *The Promoter*
> 
> There has been a lot going on here, so the blog was the one thing that had to be cut back on. We are reaching the end of this topic, so if you have any questions that I might answer, I can add a couple of entries. I have to start turning some bowls to get ready for next summers shows.
> 
> ...


again - a lovely blog with lots of information.

Thank you


----------



## Paul (Mar 13, 2007)

odie said:


> *The Promoter*
> 
> There has been a lot going on here, so the blog was the one thing that had to be cut back on. We are reaching the end of this topic, so if you have any questions that I might answer, I can add a couple of entries. I have to start turning some bowls to get ready for next summers shows.
> 
> ...


The days of putting things in print or on a sign, and leaving it at that, are long gone.

You can't even call a meeting of five people that way anymore, much less draw together an event.

Transferring from my current experience of working with people, one of the biggest hesitations I have of approaching even a part-time vocational life in woodworking, is what I believe would be the critically necessary promotional, advertsing and personal contact work outside of the shop to go along with excellence in the craft.

The corallary in my present full-time church life is the astounding assertion I heard recently that 80% of the churches in this country are in decline. You can't tell me that excellence and life-value is not present in 80% of the churches in this country. Granted, some of those churches are in decline for obvious reasons. Yet, at least a contributing factor is the mistaken notion in the declining churches of quality is that people are "looking" for church. They're not. Someone has to go tell them and show them the life-value in an authentic way from their personal life experience .

Likewise, people are not "looking for" the quality crafter. The quality crafter (or outside promoter of quality crafting), I believe, has to understand this. If it ever did, just hanging out a shingle won't cut it anymore.


----------



## rpmurphy509 (Nov 6, 2007)

odie said:


> *The Promoter*
> 
> There has been a lot going on here, so the blog was the one thing that had to be cut back on. We are reaching the end of this topic, so if you have any questions that I might answer, I can add a couple of entries. I have to start turning some bowls to get ready for next summers shows.
> 
> ...


One could probably write an entire sociology thesis on this.

People are so used to getting a 'hard sell' these days that they walk right past
the store with regular, non-blinking, non-intrusive signs and sales techniques.
It's almost sad to say, but in order to succeed these days you need to sell hard
and be intrusive while you're doing it, otherwise they will pass you by.


----------



## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

*Ah Gypsies in the Air ?*

If you have ever paid close attention to the way an arts and craft show looks, you have to be thinking what a bunch of gypsies. You don't see the half of it. You should see us when we set up and tear down. I fondly call everyone there a bunch of gypsies and it's catching on. I will tell you, I have never run across a greater bunch of people in my life. There isn't any of them that wouldn't give you the shirt off their backs to help you succeed. But at the same time, I have never run across a group of people so void of common sense.

YOU MUST weight your tent down to keep the wind from carrying it away. Worst yet it could hit someone else's booth or hit a customer and hurt them. But yet there are still artists that try to get away with this. Most promoters have this in there rules. Some of them are now just starting to enforce these rules though. I have witnessed many a tent lifting off the ground like a kite. And these shows are in Lake Tahoe where the wind almost never stops. There used to be a tent 50 feet up, in a tree, in the park, in Truckee. It was an arts and crafts show tent. It was in this tree for 15 years. The promoter used to point it out if someone didn't think weights were important.

These were the same people that tried to save money by not carrying insurance. So, take an unweighted tent, a strong wind, and some innocent visitors to the show. If the artist has a home, he could lose it. If I see an unweighted tent I suggest the artist take care of it. If they refuse to obey the promoter's rules, I tell the promoter. Then the promoter knows he is responsible for damage to my setup. That gets the problem taken care of quickly. So, be nice and know your rights. Don't let someone's stupidity ruin your weekend.

Below is what we use to wait our tent. These buckets have 40 pounds of concrete in each of them. There is a bolt stuck into the concrete that we attach each tent foot to with a wing nut. There is also a ring in the concrete that we tie a rope coming down from the top corner to. This forms a triangle of sorts and nothing moves.



















Ah, go ahead, take a look : http://www.dustnlint.com


----------



## cajunpen (Apr 9, 2007)

odie said:


> *Ah Gypsies in the Air ?*
> 
> If you have ever paid close attention to the way an arts and craft show looks, you have to be thinking what a bunch of gypsies. You don't see the half of it. You should see us when we set up and tear down. I fondly call everyone there a bunch of gypsies and it's catching on. I will tell you, I have never run across a greater bunch of people in my life. There isn't any of them that wouldn't give you the shirt off their backs to help you succeed. But at the same time, I have never run across a group of people so void of common sense.
> 
> ...


Makes sense to me - thanks for sharing Odie


----------



## Mario (Apr 23, 2007)

odie said:


> *Ah Gypsies in the Air ?*
> 
> If you have ever paid close attention to the way an arts and craft show looks, you have to be thinking what a bunch of gypsies. You don't see the half of it. You should see us when we set up and tear down. I fondly call everyone there a bunch of gypsies and it's catching on. I will tell you, I have never run across a greater bunch of people in my life. There isn't any of them that wouldn't give you the shirt off their backs to help you succeed. But at the same time, I have never run across a group of people so void of common sense.
> 
> ...


Maybee you should make a bunch of them and sell them or rent them to the other artists. Keep people safe and make a buck.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

odie said:


> *Ah Gypsies in the Air ?*
> 
> If you have ever paid close attention to the way an arts and craft show looks, you have to be thinking what a bunch of gypsies. You don't see the half of it. You should see us when we set up and tear down. I fondly call everyone there a bunch of gypsies and it's catching on. I will tell you, I have never run across a greater bunch of people in my life. There isn't any of them that wouldn't give you the shirt off their backs to help you succeed. But at the same time, I have never run across a group of people so void of common sense.
> 
> ...


good info to be conscious of-even if you are just one of the people wandering around.


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## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

*You Wanna a Piece of Me ?*

I eluded to this earlier. Everyone wants to get rich off of your hard work. You get the raw materials. You create something from the raw materials. A tent and display is bought and set up every time you wish to sell your product. So where does 30% go every time, and right off the top. This 30% is a figure that was arrived at by 5 years of averaging. And more times than not this figure is higher. This amount comes off of your gross sales amount and not your profit.

We have always figured that a good show for us is a $500.00 a day average. A three day show would be a $1500.00 in gross sales. That is a figure we would be happy with. It doesn't happen that way often enough, but it does happen. If the yearly average worked out to this $500.00 per day average we would be very happy. We have come very close, but never hit it as yet. This a lot more information than I wanted to give out, but what the hell. That 30% is $150.00 per day of our goal if we hit it.

This 30% is not the cost of wood, or display, or tent, or gas, but everyone else's god given right to have part of you. I wouldn't make such a big deal out of this if they didn't raise their fees without notice, but your customer screams bloody murder if you hold firm on your prices. This 30% is the combination of promoters and credit card company fees. If you sell wholesale, you can get rid of this 30% right off of the top. Do you see where this is going. One of you thought "wholesale" was a dirty word.

Credit card companies want 5% on average. Many charge less in the beginning, but add on other fees at billing time. So, if you buy a $100.00 box from me 5% of the price goes to someone who had nothing to do with the producing of it. That is of course if you use a credit card. Another dirty little secret is if you have a rewards card, guess who gets billed for your reward? Please do not use a rewards card at an arts and crafts show. These fees are necessary evils I'm afraid. Remember I mentioned "tourists" and what a large part of my sales they are. They carry credit cards for emergences. Their unexpected purchase in my booth just became an emergency to them. Is this a great country or what?

We could have gone into this much deeper, but this is not a book and I'm not making any money on it. I do have another bowl to turn.


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

odie said:


> *You Wanna a Piece of Me ?*
> 
> I eluded to this earlier. Everyone wants to get rich off of your hard work. You get the raw materials. You create something from the raw materials. A tent and display is bought and set up every time you wish to sell your product. So where does 30% go every time, and right off the top. This 30% is a figure that was arrived at by 5 years of averaging. And more times than not this figure is higher. This amount comes off of your gross sales amount and not your profit.
> 
> ...


Great Ideas Odie.

Now back to shavings.


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## mgradwohl (Dec 17, 2007)

odie said:


> *You Wanna a Piece of Me ?*
> 
> I eluded to this earlier. Everyone wants to get rich off of your hard work. You get the raw materials. You create something from the raw materials. A tent and display is bought and set up every time you wish to sell your product. So where does 30% go every time, and right off the top. This 30% is a figure that was arrived at by 5 years of averaging. And more times than not this figure is higher. This amount comes off of your gross sales amount and not your profit.
> 
> ...


You forgot the other 30% that is taken, again by everyone else that wants a piece of you. Federal Taxes.

Yup, that's right. To some thethe tax system as a "redistribution system" to take your hard earned scratch. While you're working hard in your shop (or at the arts & crafts show), someone else is sitting on their butt waiting for your money to be redistributed to them by the gov't .

If someone walked up to you on the street and demanded 30% of all the money you had in your wallet (or your bank accounts), that would be robbery. But people use the gov't to do this to you every day.

-Matt

So, your $1500 for three days is even smaller than you may think.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

odie said:


> *You Wanna a Piece of Me ?*
> 
> I eluded to this earlier. Everyone wants to get rich off of your hard work. You get the raw materials. You create something from the raw materials. A tent and display is bought and set up every time you wish to sell your product. So where does 30% go every time, and right off the top. This 30% is a figure that was arrived at by 5 years of averaging. And more times than not this figure is higher. This amount comes off of your gross sales amount and not your profit.
> 
> ...


ouch  
I'll take cash with me next time I visit a craft show


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## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

*"The Price is Right" ?*

Well, one more bowl turned and one more blog entry to write. And believe me, this is a good time to write this. It's 4 degrees outside and 34 degrees in the shop. This topic is coming to a close. There are only a couple left to do I can think of, unless you have questions. Hell, there must be a couple of questions in Turlock. This is a tough topic to tackle. Say that 5 times really quick. Your pricing structure is this entries topic.

The first component of any price structure is the cost. What raw goods do you have in this work of art? You have wood plus 10% to 20% waste. Don't forget your waste. 20% is a good figure. I give my customers a little break and charge 10% because I turn pens and make very small boxes with a lot of the waste. And don't forget ALL of your materials that went into that, let's say, "box". Things like hinges, felt, felt dots on the bottom, finish, and glue are included. You will have other costs such as sandpaper you used.

With wood I have a little bit of a quandary. I use about 20 different wood species in my boxes. Some boxes, I make about one hundred a year. Each specie has a different price. I charge the same price for the same box with different woods (except for a few $$$). So, what do I do? I average the costs of the woods with a little twist. I use maple about 20% of the time, so the price of the maple counts for 20% of the average. And I do this with all of the species, and I came up with $7.52 per board foot. So, figure out your board feet used ( +20% ) x $7.52 and that's your wood cost. And the disclaimer … your cost of wood may differ.










For my big jewelry boxes I use Beall round hinges. They're $27.00 at Woodcraft. I buy mine directly from Beall at $16.00 each plus $8.00 for shipping 10 of them. If you are keeping score, that's $16.80 spent for hinges for each jewelry box. I just saved my customer $10.20 on his purchase. I also save like gangbusters on sandpaper. At the hardware store sandpaper is about $1.00 per sheet any more. That's F--ing ridiculous to charge that much for sandpaper. I buy mine from Econ Abrasives at about $.17 per sheet if I buy 50 or 100 sheets. Look around, you can save big bucks if you try. And open a wholesale account with your wood supplier and don't pay sales tax. Your customer pays the sales tax not you. On my large jewelry boxes I use 6 coats of spayed on lacquer. I pay about $27.00 for a gallon of lacquer and about $13.00 for a gallon of thinner. I can put six coats (mixed 50/50) on eight boxes with that at $5.00 per box. And so on, and on, and on.

Hot damn here we go … what is your time worth? This is the toughest question of all. When I worked for the telephone company five years ago I was worth over $25.00 plus benefits per hour. Now I live in the business owner world. Things sure have changed. This hourly figure will be different for everyone. I add $9.00 per hour to everything I make. That is the minimum that I work with. Somethings I make $20.00 an hour. Remember my little trick of not making only one of anything in my inventory? It takes me 60 hours to make my bigger jewelry boxes. If I make four of them it takes me sixteen hours each … see how I can save time? I hope this helps you.

for a good time ... click here


----------



## Karson (May 9, 2006)

odie said:


> *"The Price is Right" ?*
> 
> Well, one more bowl turned and one more blog entry to write. And believe me, this is a good time to write this. It's 4 degrees outside and 34 degrees in the shop. This topic is coming to a close. There are only a couple left to do I can think of, unless you have questions. Hell, there must be a couple of questions in Turlock. This is a tough topic to tackle. Say that 5 times really quick. Your pricing structure is this entries topic.
> 
> ...


Great Odie.

I'm having a good time. Are you. Did all of the snow melt. It's 42 here today. It snowed about 45 million flakes, and they are all gone.

Great blog. Thanks.


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## Russel (Aug 13, 2007)

odie said:


> *"The Price is Right" ?*
> 
> Well, one more bowl turned and one more blog entry to write. And believe me, this is a good time to write this. It's 4 degrees outside and 34 degrees in the shop. This topic is coming to a close. There are only a couple left to do I can think of, unless you have questions. Hell, there must be a couple of questions in Turlock. This is a tough topic to tackle. Say that 5 times really quick. Your pricing structure is this entries topic.
> 
> ...


Very good information here. Particularly when you're talking about materials cost; sandpaper and finish cost money and are too often overlooked in pricing. I noticed you did not mention tool wear, though that calculation can drive you nuts. Once again, good information.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

odie said:


> *"The Price is Right" ?*
> 
> Well, one more bowl turned and one more blog entry to write. And believe me, this is a good time to write this. It's 4 degrees outside and 34 degrees in the shop. This topic is coming to a close. There are only a couple left to do I can think of, unless you have questions. Hell, there must be a couple of questions in Turlock. This is a tough topic to tackle. Say that 5 times really quick. Your pricing structure is this entries topic.
> 
> ...


again .. an excellent blog!!! 
a wealth of knowledge and you share it well; to the point; easy to read; informative.


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## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

*The Customer ... Nuff Said*

Well, we can't stop giving shop weather reports can we? It's 8 degrees outside and it's 36 degrees in the shop. Damn, it's a heat wave over yesterday. I do have one more bowl to turn in this round and then it's on to something else. Just like this blog is about to end unless something pops up that might be interesting to write about. Hey, Bill in Turlock, any questions?

Ah, the customer, he is always right you know. At least that's what we have to keep telling ourselves, over, and over, and over (to a point). The point being when we have lost the sale and nothing we say will ever change that. Then we can let them have it, just kidding. They or their friends just might want to come back. Someone near by might hear you admonish them and change their minds about visiting your booth. But, feel free to give it to the parents of the little bastards that are racing their toy cars across your jewelry boxes. That really happened, you know.

My favorite customer is the wheeler dealer that's not happy with your very fair prices. It doesn't matter where they go, they assume they're at a garage sale. Our first couple of years at this, we would give in just to make a sale. Now, I ask these customers if they would work for $5.00 an hour. Then when they say they would not, that's when I tell them they are asking me to work for less. Sue gives into this with her quilts at times, and it drives me crazy. She sells them for too little now. If someone wants several items for cash, I might eat the sales tax. But, for the most part I hold firm. I don't think I have lost much business because of this. I think I've gained respect. As for you, you'll work it out for yourselves.

This has been fun and challenging. I hope I may have shortened the road of hard knocks for some of you. If you have questions, we can revisit this again. TA TA for now.










And for a Really GOOD Time ... Click Here.


----------



## Russel (Aug 13, 2007)

odie said:


> *The Customer ... Nuff Said*
> 
> Well, we can't stop giving shop weather reports can we? It's 8 degrees outside and it's 36 degrees in the shop. Damn, it's a heat wave over yesterday. I do have one more bowl to turn in this round and then it's on to something else. Just like this blog is about to end unless something pops up that might be interesting to write about. Hey, Bill in Turlock, any questions?
> 
> ...


One more time, Thank you.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

odie said:


> *The Customer ... Nuff Said*
> 
> Well, we can't stop giving shop weather reports can we? It's 8 degrees outside and it's 36 degrees in the shop. Damn, it's a heat wave over yesterday. I do have one more bowl to turn in this round and then it's on to something else. Just like this blog is about to end unless something pops up that might be interesting to write about. Hey, Bill in Turlock, any questions?
> 
> ...


yes, thank you so much for taking the time to post these tidbits (well TONS of tidbits) of information and experience.


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## bbrooks (Jan 3, 2007)

odie said:


> *The Customer ... Nuff Said*
> 
> Well, we can't stop giving shop weather reports can we? It's 8 degrees outside and it's 36 degrees in the shop. Damn, it's a heat wave over yesterday. I do have one more bowl to turn in this round and then it's on to something else. Just like this blog is about to end unless something pops up that might be interesting to write about. Hey, Bill in Turlock, any questions?
> 
> ...


It sounds like its working for you, so then you must be doing something right.


----------



## Paul (Mar 13, 2007)

odie said:


> *The Customer ... Nuff Said*
> 
> Well, we can't stop giving shop weather reports can we? It's 8 degrees outside and it's 36 degrees in the shop. Damn, it's a heat wave over yesterday. I do have one more bowl to turn in this round and then it's on to something else. Just like this blog is about to end unless something pops up that might be interesting to write about. Hey, Bill in Turlock, any questions?
> 
> ...


Thanks. I found your series very helpful.

I appreciate you taking the time to perhaps keep others on a good road - avoiding some potholes and running into the ditch.


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

odie said:


> *The Customer ... Nuff Said*
> 
> Well, we can't stop giving shop weather reports can we? It's 8 degrees outside and it's 36 degrees in the shop. Damn, it's a heat wave over yesterday. I do have one more bowl to turn in this round and then it's on to something else. Just like this blog is about to end unless something pops up that might be interesting to write about. Hey, Bill in Turlock, any questions?
> 
> ...


Brilliant. I just read the whole series - and I really appreciate you taking the time to do this and provide this insight. While some of the details may differ for me here in New Zealand ( this country thrives on small business so things are still relatively easy to get started ) I think most things will still apply.

One of the things you didn't talk about much is the relative importance of a website or sales originating off of the internet. Is this a big factor for you? With the sparse population here in NZ ( 1 million on the S island and another 3m on the N Island ) I think I have to view the entire country as my market, therefore I'm thinking to rely more on detailed info available on the website and have the virtual show running 24/7 ( in addition to some of the other methods you mentioned ).

What do you think about this. Is there a possibility of one more entry in your blog to address this question?


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## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

odie said:


> *The Customer ... Nuff Said*
> 
> Well, we can't stop giving shop weather reports can we? It's 8 degrees outside and it's 36 degrees in the shop. Damn, it's a heat wave over yesterday. I do have one more bowl to turn in this round and then it's on to something else. Just like this blog is about to end unless something pops up that might be interesting to write about. Hey, Bill in Turlock, any questions?
> 
> ...


daltxguy,

Thanks … I will try and tackle yet another chapter of my blog. I'm afraid it will be short though.


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## daltxguy (Sep 7, 2007)

odie said:


> *The Customer ... Nuff Said*
> 
> Well, we can't stop giving shop weather reports can we? It's 8 degrees outside and it's 36 degrees in the shop. Damn, it's a heat wave over yesterday. I do have one more bowl to turn in this round and then it's on to something else. Just like this blog is about to end unless something pops up that might be interesting to write about. Hey, Bill in Turlock, any questions?
> 
> ...


Cheers for that Odie. I'll be looking forward to what you have to say!


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## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

*Ah, the World Wide Web*

This topic was a request by daltxguy, and it will probably disappoint him. We left off with the customer the last time around. Well this is sort of related. It's just a different way to go find that allusive person. Ah yes, the all powerful "web site". With our web site it's a work in progress.

We use a Mac and a program called "iweb", designed to enable one to design and publish their own web site. So that's exactly what we have done. Apple publishes it to the web for $100.00 a year. It has a strange address = http://web.mac.com/johnorsue . And along the way I got the domain name, http://www.dustnlint.com , from YAHOO! for only $10.00 a year. When "you" go to the domain address it just transfers you to that crazy mac address. When you go to dustnlint you will see the other address on your browser. Every word I typed, every picture I took, and every page I designed then published it on the web. The greatest thing about it, I can change it every few minutes if I want to. I don't have to wait for some computer geek to do these things for me.

Now, your question I believe, how is it to sell on the inter net? Damned if I know. Do my customers find me on the World Wide Web ? We have only had our web site for about 9 months, and answer to that question is: "not yet". If you were to pay Google or YAHOO! a fee to advertise your site, that answer could be different. We are contacted by previous customers and people who have picked up our business cards at arts and crafts shows with our web address on them. People usually call us with questions about our products and I have them look at our web site. They will see what they like and place an order over the phone. It's also great to talk to them over the phone while we both look at the web site. Sorry, as far as someone finding the web site then placing an order, it hasn't happened yet.

All this being said, this has been great for people seeing us at a show and showing their friends, via our site, what our booth and products looked like. I believe we have gotten a few orders this way. There is also a guy 3000 miles away in Washington D. C. that purchased a jewelry box from the North Tahoe Arts gallery. He keeps placing orders from our web site. There is also a couple in Los Angeles that keeps placing orders for Sue's quilts they see on the site.

For the most part, our art needs to be seen, felt, and smelled in person to really appreciate it. The web site has been more of a tool for us then a selling blitz. That could change in the future … only time will tell. Thank you for your question, sorry I couldn't be more help.










Shameless Promotion - click here


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

odie said:


> *Ah, the World Wide Web*
> 
> This topic was a request by daltxguy, and it will probably disappoint him. We left off with the customer the last time around. Well this is sort of related. It's just a different way to go find that allusive person. Ah yes, the all powerful "web site". With our web site it's a work in progress.
> 
> ...


That box is sharp Odie…did you do that? I like the choice of materiels and your execution of the layered dovetails is excelent.


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## toddc (Mar 6, 2007)

odie said:


> *Ah, the World Wide Web*
> 
> This topic was a request by daltxguy, and it will probably disappoint him. We left off with the customer the last time around. Well this is sort of related. It's just a different way to go find that allusive person. Ah yes, the all powerful "web site". With our web site it's a work in progress.
> 
> ...


I use iWeb too and I love it!


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## Jojo (Jul 11, 2007)

odie said:


> *Ah, the World Wide Web*
> 
> This topic was a request by daltxguy, and it will probably disappoint him. We left off with the customer the last time around. Well this is sort of related. It's just a different way to go find that allusive person. Ah yes, the all powerful "web site". With our web site it's a work in progress.
> 
> ...


*Odie*, you don't need to have a *".Mac"* account to use iWeb, you can publish to any address of your own. I do it with my website because although I love iWeb and most the stuff Apple does, I never found a valid reason to pay a hundred bucks a year for the kind of services I could get from a *".Mac"* account.

The trick is to avoid the 'Publish' button and choose, in the 'File' menu, the option 'Publish to a folder'. This will save all your site to a folder you specify and then you only have to upload it via FTP to your personal website. If you need any help drop me a message and I'll be glad to oblige.

Interesting series you've been posting, by the way.


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## BigTim (Jan 17, 2008)

odie said:


> *Ah, the World Wide Web*
> 
> This topic was a request by daltxguy, and it will probably disappoint him. We left off with the customer the last time around. Well this is sort of related. It's just a different way to go find that allusive person. Ah yes, the all powerful "web site". With our web site it's a work in progress.
> 
> ...


Odie, I completely agree on the customer needs to see & feel our art. Having a web site is a very important sales tool, but don't expect too much from direct sales off the net. People have to actually touch most of the things we make. Every show I've ever done, 100's of people ask if I have a website. At the prices we have to ask for quality woodworking most people cannot or will not make a quick decision to part with their hard earned $'s, at least here in the midwest. Having a web site allows the customer to show their family & friends what the item looks like but without someone who as actually seen your product and can oh & ahh over how wonderfull the piece is it's very hard to close a sale over the net alone. as long as you can get your website address into the hands of prospective customers they can & will share their "find" with others. Exhibiting at shows or galleries is the #1 way for customers to appreciate your work. A website is a great way to spread that info to others. 
My current experience is limited to the higher end of woodworking. I sometimes wish I could build & market a bunch of items at lower price points. I'ts just not for me. Years ago I did lower end things that I could sell at local church fairs and craft shows but as my skills improved I became bored with the work & the relatively small payback. 
My Daughter & I put together my site using MS Frontpage & costs about $120 a year to host. Any updates can be uploaded in a matter of min's. It's not all that difficult. 
Just my .02


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## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

odie said:


> *Ah, the World Wide Web*
> 
> This topic was a request by daltxguy, and it will probably disappoint him. We left off with the customer the last time around. Well this is sort of related. It's just a different way to go find that allusive person. Ah yes, the all powerful "web site". With our web site it's a work in progress.
> 
> ...


Thank you all. Tim, You use your site in much the same way I do. Jojo, I do know I don't need the ".mac" account, but it's what I started with. Everywhere I look the prices are all about the same, and I LOVE Apple. Oh, Tim, I did make a conscious decision early on to make my product affordable to everyone. I do work a little harder to accomplish this.

Thanks again all


----------



## BigTim (Jan 17, 2008)

odie said:


> *Ah, the World Wide Web*
> 
> This topic was a request by daltxguy, and it will probably disappoint him. We left off with the customer the last time around. Well this is sort of related. It's just a different way to go find that allusive person. Ah yes, the all powerful "web site". With our web site it's a work in progress.
> 
> ...


Odie, I really like your ring boxes. I made a bunch of simmilar boxes a few years back I'll have to dig up a photo & post it. Maybe I should go back & make some more.


----------



## dennis (Aug 3, 2006)

odie said:


> *Ah, the World Wide Web*
> 
> This topic was a request by daltxguy, and it will probably disappoint him. We left off with the customer the last time around. Well this is sort of related. It's just a different way to go find that allusive person. Ah yes, the all powerful "web site". With our web site it's a work in progress.
> 
> ...


I'm sure glad I didn't go out and spend a lot of money on a web site!
and I know it shows.


----------



## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

odie said:


> *Ah, the World Wide Web*
> 
> This topic was a request by daltxguy, and it will probably disappoint him. We left off with the customer the last time around. Well this is sort of related. It's just a different way to go find that allusive person. Ah yes, the all powerful "web site". With our web site it's a work in progress.
> 
> ...


Dennis,

What is a lot of money for a web site ? I feel $120.00 is not a lot of money. Your site looks great … I'm confused.


----------



## dennis (Aug 3, 2006)

odie said:


> *Ah, the World Wide Web*
> 
> This topic was a request by daltxguy, and it will probably disappoint him. We left off with the customer the last time around. Well this is sort of related. It's just a different way to go find that allusive person. Ah yes, the all powerful "web site". With our web site it's a work in progress.
> 
> ...


When they first came out I know of some artist who spent thousands getting set up. A lot of them never got their money out of the deal. Mine is one of the freebies. I just don't have the freedom to change its basic look. Every thing is stuck in a template. Which is OK. I've yet to make a single dollar from it. Smoke and mirrors.


----------



## shangrila (Apr 5, 2007)

odie said:


> *Ah, the World Wide Web*
> 
> This topic was a request by daltxguy, and it will probably disappoint him. We left off with the customer the last time around. Well this is sort of related. It's just a different way to go find that allusive person. Ah yes, the all powerful "web site". With our web site it's a work in progress.
> 
> ...


I just reciently started to recieve orders from my web site.I think one of the keys to my recient orders is proffesional pictures since the customer can't "touch" the piece you have to be able to represent it well with pictures and descriptions.Yes this does cost a bit but the last order I received easily paid for a years worth of photography and I did not even have to leave my home.The other thing that helps is getting up high on the search engines wich we have gotten better at but still need more work to get to the top three or so pages.
Odie I travel to shows to and I know how hard that becomes I would love to sell more over the web and stay home and create things.


----------



## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

odie said:


> *Ah, the World Wide Web*
> 
> This topic was a request by daltxguy, and it will probably disappoint him. We left off with the customer the last time around. Well this is sort of related. It's just a different way to go find that allusive person. Ah yes, the all powerful "web site". With our web site it's a work in progress.
> 
> ...


Scott, I hear you … high on Google's and Yahoo!'s lists is important. I have someone trying to talk me through the process of getting it high on those lists now, thanks to this blog. The problem is he's a PC guy and I'm a mac guy. Things are quite different with publishing to ".mac" vs. a PC based system. If nothing else I'm persistent. I will let you know what happens.


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## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

*MORE WEB NEWS*

I forgot to bring you all up to date. How you get noticed by Google and Yahoo is called "meta names". These names are embedded in code in your web site on each page. Google and Yahoo! use crawlers to find and read these meta "tags". They use them to pick where and in what categories your site is listed.

I now have a program that lets me go in and change and add to my "meta names". The problem, I found out, is that .mac doesn't allow for this. There is no way to add and transfer these meta names in iweb and in .mac. I will be emailing the .mac people to see if there is a way around this or they can add this ability later.

There is one way "in the mac world" to do this. Save iweb to a file. Then publish it to another web host like Yahoo! While it is in your file change the meta names to suit you. Then publish it to the host.

I could get around this by having my home page with Yahoo! (with the meta names). Then when you click on the menu of pages it would transfer you to my .mac site. I am looking into that also. I now have an account with Yahoo! (domain name and AT&T/Yahoo! DSL), so it would be easy to add my home page to the account. I'm just afraid it's more money out of the good old pockets of DUST'N LINT

For you MAC users, the program I'm referring to is "Wrangler". It is a free program and down loadable from apple Once you get to their site go to "downloads".

For a really *GREAT* time *CLICK* here

*PS.* I forgot to tell you all … I did get a call yesterday from a former customer. He was a customer before we had a web site. He was interested in a jewelry box for his son's girlfriend. He wanted me to describe what I had. I asked if he was near a computer and he said it was on and in front of him. I gave him the site address and we were both able to look at it together while on the phone. He then gave me an order that I'm sending this morning.


----------



## DaveHerron (Jan 21, 2008)

odie said:


> *MORE WEB NEWS*
> 
> I forgot to bring you all up to date. How you get noticed by Google and Yahoo is called "meta names". These names are embedded in code in your web site on each page. Google and Yahoo! use crawlers to find and read these meta "tags". They use them to pick where and in what categories your site is listed.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure that the search engines use meta data any longer for indexing web sites because the meta data tags have been abused. I believe page content is now indexed and assigned a relevance score. Also, the page last update date/time is used in the ranking. The search engines show the most recent pages first that have the most hits in content for the search phrase entered.

See The Anotomy of a Search Engine for more info.


----------



## joey (Sep 17, 2007)

odie said:


> *MORE WEB NEWS*
> 
> I forgot to bring you all up to date. How you get noticed by Google and Yahoo is called "meta names". These names are embedded in code in your web site on each page. Google and Yahoo! use crawlers to find and read these meta "tags". They use them to pick where and in what categories your site is listed.
> 
> ...


Hey Odie, Nice job on the blog I started to write a blog about the same subject, I have been working on my marketing research and was going to write a blog soon, I also have a question in the forum on web sites, I was going to add some info on meta tagging to it this week. looks like you did a good job covering it. I know what you mean about tagging for mac. I also heard some thing about Google is going to stop ranking web site that do a lot of linking to other web sites, not sure how true this is, but I plan doing some more research on it to find out it that is what they are planning. Anyway I enjoyed reading your blog I wish all the success and keep up the good work


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## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

*Ahh ... Steps in the Fool*

Hi …. O, an "artist's" story unfolds ….......

Hell done broke loose at North Tahoe Arts. Remember, I told you about that place earlier. It is a non-profit artists association, I'm afraid, run by artists. If you put 20 of them in one room together, they will do nothing but disagree until they are all unconscious from bitch slapping each other. I'm a Tim Taylor Tool Man kind of guy. These people are unreal. Remember my phrase "common sense isn't so common"? Well it really applies in this case.

Also, remember when I said they all look to the one that has his head on straight. It's true and that one was me. What a guy, what a guy, what a guy …. There was an election to elect a chairman in which I ran (why I don't know) for the position. Sue, my wife, was really pissed. The place really needed direction and leadership. They asked for people that wanted to run for (voted upon) chairman. I was in a weird mood and put my name in. I was the only one for two weeks. So, that meant ….. no you're wrong and so was I.
For some reason when "odie" is the only one willing to do the job, panic is the name of the game. Common sense … "we can't deal with that".










When the true artist ran, she won. There is much, much more to that little story, but I try to be a gentleman. That was just fine with me after I gained my senses. So, we all lived happily ever after, right? This artist and her partner in crime ran everything with an Iron fist. No decisions were made as a group. She made them all for us. Many enemies were made, including the main board of directors. After turning that place into her dream and pounding on too many desks, she was asked (told) to leave.

Now, in steps the fool. There was a quarterly gift shop meeting coming up, the work schedule was a mess, and we were down to 20 artists instead of the 26 we should have. Our reputation in the community was, to say the least, not too good. I told everyone I would chair the next meeting, emailed an agenda, and took over our schedule on Google calendar. I told everyone they will need a new chairman after the minutes were mailed out about a week after the meeting. That added up to about three weeks of hell. It was something that needed to be done, and everyone really appreciated me stepping forward and taking the reins.

The conclusion to this little "artists dilemma" next time …......

Web site with held due to popular demand


----------



## Russel (Aug 13, 2007)

odie said:


> *Ahh ... Steps in the Fool*
> 
> Hi …. O, an "artist's" story unfolds ….......
> 
> ...


That's sounds like it was a good time, NOT! You gotta love those folks who don't want to do the job, but don't want you to do it either. And yet, they still want the job done. Makes my head spin just thinking about it. Geld the horse and put him out for stud … sounds almost corporate. I'll be waiting for next time to see how this story continues.


----------



## dennis (Aug 3, 2006)

odie said:


> *Ahh ... Steps in the Fool*
> 
> Hi …. O, an "artist's" story unfolds ….......
> 
> ...


I nominate Odie for pres of the Lumberjocks rules committee.


----------



## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

odie said:


> *Ahh ... Steps in the Fool*
> 
> Hi …. O, an "artist's" story unfolds ….......
> 
> ...


Russel you're right … dennis you're a trouble maker.


----------



## Allison (Dec 31, 2007)

odie said:


> *Ahh ... Steps in the Fool*
> 
> Hi …. O, an "artist's" story unfolds ….......
> 
> ...


YIKES!!!
Now I know what you have REALLY been up too!!!
Ahhh
No Habla engles!
Alicia!


----------



## Karson (May 9, 2006)

odie said:


> *Ahh ... Steps in the Fool*
> 
> Hi …. O, an "artist's" story unfolds ….......
> 
> ...


Couldn't have happened to a "NICER" guy - not!

Love you Odie.


----------



## Jimthecarver (Jan 14, 2008)

odie said:


> *Ahh ... Steps in the Fool*
> 
> Hi …. O, an "artist's" story unfolds ….......
> 
> ...


LOL… Ya gotta love it!


----------



## Taigert (Nov 20, 2007)

odie said:


> *Ahh ... Steps in the Fool*
> 
> Hi …. O, an "artist's" story unfolds ….......
> 
> ...


Odie, 
Before you get elected President and all your time is taken up in the poiticial arena. How about fixing your link to your web site, so it will let you return back to Lumberjocks. You keep talking about doing it, and I keep trusting that you have fixed it, and I keep clicking on it, to see what new maybe on your web site!!
Is NTA only a venue for artist to sell your works, or do you also have studio space. It sounds like all the other organizations there are where 90% of the work is always put on the shoulders of the same 10% of the members. Good Luck on your future position that is going to be thrust upon your shoulder's


----------



## brianm (Feb 16, 2008)

odie said:


> *Ahh ... Steps in the Fool*
> 
> Hi …. O, an "artist's" story unfolds ….......
> 
> ...


You will notice that the term "we should" at a co-op meeting really means "you should" when it comes time to do the work.


----------



## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

odie said:


> *Ahh ... Steps in the Fool*
> 
> Hi …. O, an "artist's" story unfolds ….......
> 
> ...


EdC, I thought I had that fixed it this time. Did you click the blue area above?


----------



## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

*Artistic Melodrama*

I thought this topic was exhausted many moons ago. As a "pro", little things pop up, that need our attention from time to time. Now that my life is, for the most part, mine again, I have time to conclude our little melodrama. We left off with me as acting, temporary, until the job was done … chairman of the North Tahoe Arts Artisan's Gift Shop. That's a mouth full.

For the two weeks proceeding the meeting I organized the agenda from the last meeting. I shortened it from 14 pages to 2 pages and emailed it to everyone. They were told to give me any added items they wanted discussed. I had also taken over the scheduling of gift shop work days. I still have that job today, and I'm happy to do it for them. We had a few "unauthorized" email blasts to the group by some know-it-alls. This was nipped in the bud by me with some "red neck" photos gathered from my forum topic, "LumberJocks is going to the Dogs". These plus the phrase, "lighten up, my eyes hurt from all the emails", really worked. All the emails just stopped dead about three days before the meeting.










*This is my *********************************** mansion*










*This is my *********************************** lawn mower. (Mr. Trim says they're *********************************** hookers)*










*When all the work is done, my friends and I goes swimmin' in my swimmin' pool.*

The meeting started at 10:00 on June 3rd. I got there attention, and laid the ground rules for the meeting. I would read a topic, tell them what I thought, and then we would discuss it. We would then vote on it. There would be nothing put off until the next meeting. I found out "artists" love firm but fair. I must point out, at this point, that quite a few of you were right. We got lots of two cents worth, but no one was willing to follow it through. Everything was settled and voted on by the end of the meeting.

During this meeting, I announced that someone had mentioned to me a group blog would be great. I told them that I looked into it and I would be glad to set one up with Google. I told them my effort has its price. I wanted 100% participation. A few of them, to say the least, are not computer literate. Just about all have tried to get to it and log on. About 2/3s have made it and are contributing as I write this. The rest are contacting me, one by one, by telephone. Then at this point I walk them through the process of logging into our super secret blog. It's a long story that might be number 19 in this series.

Ah,but I have lots of good news to report. After the meeting we went downstairs to the gift shop and rotated and rehung everyones art. This gives everyone a different location every three months and usually takes three days to finish. We got it accomplished in under two hours. There was laughter, joking, and a lot of mischief. The director and president of North Tahoe Arts commented that it was so nice to hear laughter again. We are now 27 artists strong and at about our capacity. A few days ago the minutes were emailed ( my last duty as chairman) and there seems to be piece in the North Tahoe artistic community.

This was really not a "pat myself on the back piece". This was meant to show the reader what common sense in the artistic world can accomplish. The moral of this story is, when an artist is in trouble call a LumberJock …............

Don't click this Internet Explorer friendly blue thing


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## Allison (Dec 31, 2007)

odie said:


> *Artistic Melodrama*
> 
> I thought this topic was exhausted many moons ago. As a "pro", little things pop up, that need our attention from time to time. Now that my life is, for the most part, mine again, I have time to conclude our little melodrama. We left off with me as acting, temporary, until the job was done … chairman of the North Tahoe Arts Artisan's Gift Shop. That's a mouth full.
> 
> ...


WEll I can not believe that I am going to be the first one who comments but I sure don't mind!
I think your moral of the story is pure class, with a Capitol C!!!
Go get em" 
I just have this feeling that when you are in a room full of people no matter who they are there would be laughter, jokes and mischief. I can not imagine it being any other way!
PEACE!!!
sounds like you did just that at that place!


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

odie said:


> *Artistic Melodrama*
> 
> I thought this topic was exhausted many moons ago. As a "pro", little things pop up, that need our attention from time to time. Now that my life is, for the most part, mine again, I have time to conclude our little melodrama. We left off with me as acting, temporary, until the job was done … chairman of the North Tahoe Arts Artisan's Gift Shop. That's a mouth full.
> 
> ...


Obie: Great job. LumberJocks to the rescue.


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## SteveKorz (Mar 25, 2008)

odie said:


> *Artistic Melodrama*
> 
> I thought this topic was exhausted many moons ago. As a "pro", little things pop up, that need our attention from time to time. Now that my life is, for the most part, mine again, I have time to conclude our little melodrama. We left off with me as acting, temporary, until the job was done … chairman of the North Tahoe Arts Artisan's Gift Shop. That's a mouth full.
> 
> ...


You're quite a peacemaker… When all else fails, you can count on the LumberJocks!

Good job, Odie… and great pics!!... lol


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## Russel (Aug 13, 2007)

odie said:


> *Artistic Melodrama*
> 
> I thought this topic was exhausted many moons ago. As a "pro", little things pop up, that need our attention from time to time. Now that my life is, for the most part, mine again, I have time to conclude our little melodrama. We left off with me as acting, temporary, until the job was done … chairman of the North Tahoe Arts Artisan's Gift Shop. That's a mouth full.
> 
> ...


Being serious is one thing, but taking yourself seriously can be a real bother to others. Odie, you seem like one who knows the difference and thus the right man at the right time to get things moving in the right direction. I agree with Dennis' comment on your previous entry. "ODIE for President"


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## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

*Did I Mention Home Sales are Great ?*

First I'll have to give an update about the "artistic melodrama". There is no more melodrama, at least in my life. I'm gone … I quit … walked out … packed up my art (boxes) and left ! It got so bad last November dealing with all those artists, not even an accomplished LumberJock could handle it. At least not this one. As soon as they got comfortable with me as their leader, things went all wrong. I had a few people trying to get away with breaking the rules behind my back, and these were some of my closest friends … nuff said !

Remember, I said in a perfect world, "Your customers would come to your house and pay whatever you asked"? It seems to happen more and more now. It just happened yesterday with a man that discovered my work in the before mentioned art gallery / gift shop. That won't happen there any more. He had bought a few boxes at the gallery and then started ordering over the phone when he couldn't find what he really wanted there. The last couple of years he has had me send him different boxes on many occasions.

A couple of months ago his was going to come to my house/shop. He was a no-show and didn't even call … oh well I thought. I guess I'll never meet my, hopefully, new benefactor I thought again. Well, damned if that guy didn't call yesterday out of the blue. He was like a kid in a candy store and left my shop almost a $1000.00 lighter.

What this getting to is … if you sell out of your house as apposed to selling at a show … give a discount. At an arts and crafts show, remember, your costs are at least 30% of your gross sales. It has been Sue's and my policy to not include the sales tax, but to back it out of the total. In other words, we pay it out of our gross sale and not the customer. Since Arnold raised the sales taxes to 8.25% in our county, the customer got that as a discount. He was happy and we saved 21.75% ourselves. Like I said before, "It's the best of both worlds".


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

odie said:


> *Did I Mention Home Sales are Great ?*
> 
> First I'll have to give an update about the "artistic melodrama". There is no more melodrama, at least in my life. I'm gone … I quit … walked out … packed up my art (boxes) and left ! It got so bad last November dealing with all those artists, not even an accomplished LumberJock could handle it. At least not this one. As soon as they got comfortable with me as their leader, things went all wrong. I had a few people trying to get away with breaking the rules behind my back, and these were some of my closest friends … nuff said !
> 
> ...


sounds a little crazy . dealing with customers,well Lets put it this way I'll carry the premise one step further. How about they don't show up at your house and still send you money.


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## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

odie said:


> *Did I Mention Home Sales are Great ?*
> 
> First I'll have to give an update about the "artistic melodrama". There is no more melodrama, at least in my life. I'm gone … I quit … walked out … packed up my art (boxes) and left ! It got so bad last November dealing with all those artists, not even an accomplished LumberJock could handle it. At least not this one. As soon as they got comfortable with me as their leader, things went all wrong. I had a few people trying to get away with breaking the rules behind my back, and these were some of my closest friends … nuff said !
> 
> ...


Sorry Jim, but I like to share my knowledge and experiences with my customers as mentioned previously. Yesterday, that guy took a half hour tour of my shop … He'll be back!


----------



## GaryC (Dec 31, 2008)

odie said:


> *Did I Mention Home Sales are Great ?*
> 
> First I'll have to give an update about the "artistic melodrama". There is no more melodrama, at least in my life. I'm gone … I quit … walked out … packed up my art (boxes) and left ! It got so bad last November dealing with all those artists, not even an accomplished LumberJock could handle it. At least not this one. As soon as they got comfortable with me as their leader, things went all wrong. I had a few people trying to get away with breaking the rules behind my back, and these were some of my closest friends … nuff said !
> 
> ...


You da whiz Odie. You, no doubt do great work to keep the repeat's coming back. Maybe it will be even better now…hope so for your sake
g


----------



## Steelmum (Jul 21, 2007)

odie said:


> *Did I Mention Home Sales are Great ?*
> 
> First I'll have to give an update about the "artistic melodrama". There is no more melodrama, at least in my life. I'm gone … I quit … walked out … packed up my art (boxes) and left ! It got so bad last November dealing with all those artists, not even an accomplished LumberJock could handle it. At least not this one. As soon as they got comfortable with me as their leader, things went all wrong. I had a few people trying to get away with breaking the rules behind my back, and these were some of my closest friends … nuff said !
> 
> ...


I agree with you 100 percent odie. If a customer feels he is getting a discount by you paying the sales tax for him, so much the better, and you don't need to pay for the space at a show or whatever.


----------



## Russel (Aug 13, 2007)

odie said:


> *Did I Mention Home Sales are Great ?*
> 
> First I'll have to give an update about the "artistic melodrama". There is no more melodrama, at least in my life. I'm gone … I quit … walked out … packed up my art (boxes) and left ! It got so bad last November dealing with all those artists, not even an accomplished LumberJock could handle it. At least not this one. As soon as they got comfortable with me as their leader, things went all wrong. I had a few people trying to get away with breaking the rules behind my back, and these were some of my closest friends … nuff said !
> 
> ...


I'm with you Odie, I like interacting with people, particularly those that are interested in my work.


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## Grumpy (Nov 9, 2007)

odie said:


> *Did I Mention Home Sales are Great ?*
> 
> First I'll have to give an update about the "artistic melodrama". There is no more melodrama, at least in my life. I'm gone … I quit … walked out … packed up my art (boxes) and left ! It got so bad last November dealing with all those artists, not even an accomplished LumberJock could handle it. At least not this one. As soon as they got comfortable with me as their leader, things went all wrong. I had a few people trying to get away with breaking the rules behind my back, and these were some of my closest friends … nuff said !
> 
> ...


Well done Odie. Must try it sometime.


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## donbee (Feb 7, 2009)

odie said:


> *Did I Mention Home Sales are Great ?*
> 
> First I'll have to give an update about the "artistic melodrama". There is no more melodrama, at least in my life. I'm gone … I quit … walked out … packed up my art (boxes) and left ! It got so bad last November dealing with all those artists, not even an accomplished LumberJock could handle it. At least not this one. As soon as they got comfortable with me as their leader, things went all wrong. I had a few people trying to get away with breaking the rules behind my back, and these were some of my closest friends … nuff said !
> 
> ...


Here's some sidelights on "home" business.
(Sorry, Odie, don't mean to hijack the thread.)
The IRS has some pretty complicated rules for businesses operated from one's home, and local governments often want to get into that act, too.
My wife and I have been conducting business from our home for many years, but sometimes we've had to do back flips through flaming hoops to avoid legal and financial problems.
Reporting our income gets to be pretty complicated because every business cost needs to be considered unless one is willing to pay taxes on too much money. The up-side to that is that one's actual net profit is understood and pricing to the clientelle can be more realistically engineered. The real down-side is the record keeping and reporting burden.
Local governments sometimes frown on businesses in private homes because they might conflict with zoning or some other rules. They also have the attitude that those businesses don't help the community because they're invisible. We've had our business in this house since before zoning was in effect, so we're "grandfathered" as they say, but the rules have required that we apply for special non-conformance permits and have had to fight off challenges to that status a couple of times.
Please be careful. Going ahead with business in your home might be OK where you are, but assume nothing. Make sure of the legal requirements and don't just "do it under the table". Side stepping laws can have a painful eventuality!
It would be sad to hear of a LumberJock who got 'bit' from one of those complications.


----------



## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

odie said:


> *Did I Mention Home Sales are Great ?*
> 
> First I'll have to give an update about the "artistic melodrama". There is no more melodrama, at least in my life. I'm gone … I quit … walked out … packed up my art (boxes) and left ! It got so bad last November dealing with all those artists, not even an accomplished LumberJock could handle it. At least not this one. As soon as they got comfortable with me as their leader, things went all wrong. I had a few people trying to get away with breaking the rules behind my back, and these were some of my closest friends … nuff said !
> 
> ...


sounds like good customer service to me! great tip and info. I agree that making it easier on the customer, and giving them a little 'bonus' makes a stronger bond, and a better experience for everyone. in the short, and in the long run.


----------



## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

odie said:


> *Did I Mention Home Sales are Great ?*
> 
> First I'll have to give an update about the "artistic melodrama". There is no more melodrama, at least in my life. I'm gone … I quit … walked out … packed up my art (boxes) and left ! It got so bad last November dealing with all those artists, not even an accomplished LumberJock could handle it. At least not this one. As soon as they got comfortable with me as their leader, things went all wrong. I had a few people trying to get away with breaking the rules behind my back, and these were some of my closest friends … nuff said !
> 
> ...


WELL SORRY donbee, Have you read #1 through #18 ? A lot of your concerns are addressed. Permits are in place, neighbors are considered, and every penny is tracked.


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## donbee (Feb 7, 2009)

odie said:


> *Did I Mention Home Sales are Great ?*
> 
> First I'll have to give an update about the "artistic melodrama". There is no more melodrama, at least in my life. I'm gone … I quit … walked out … packed up my art (boxes) and left ! It got so bad last November dealing with all those artists, not even an accomplished LumberJock could handle it. At least not this one. As soon as they got comfortable with me as their leader, things went all wrong. I had a few people trying to get away with breaking the rules behind my back, and these were some of my closest friends … nuff said !
> 
> ...


Odie,
I haven't, actually, read numbers one through eighteen, but please, don't take my remarks as criticism, of you or anyone else.
My intent was simply to urge caution to others who do business at home.
I apologize if I came across as negative. I meant nothing of the sort.

Don


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## badgerman (Mar 27, 2009)

odie said:


> *Did I Mention Home Sales are Great ?*
> 
> First I'll have to give an update about the "artistic melodrama". There is no more melodrama, at least in my life. I'm gone … I quit … walked out … packed up my art (boxes) and left ! It got so bad last November dealing with all those artists, not even an accomplished LumberJock could handle it. At least not this one. As soon as they got comfortable with me as their leader, things went all wrong. I had a few people trying to get away with breaking the rules behind my back, and these were some of my closest friends … nuff said !
> 
> ...


Thanks to Odie and Donbee for pointing out important facts that I will file away for future reference. Glad you both and some constructive dialog going or this LJ would have dived into shallow water head first. Thanks guys!

Roger


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## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

odie said:


> *Did I Mention Home Sales are Great ?*
> 
> First I'll have to give an update about the "artistic melodrama". There is no more melodrama, at least in my life. I'm gone … I quit … walked out … packed up my art (boxes) and left ! It got so bad last November dealing with all those artists, not even an accomplished LumberJock could handle it. At least not this one. As soon as they got comfortable with me as their leader, things went all wrong. I had a few people trying to get away with breaking the rules behind my back, and these were some of my closest friends … nuff said !
> 
> ...


*Update*, the person I mentioned that came over to my house has been back. He spent more money thus helping out Dust'n Lint after we are doing so poorly in the shows this year.


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## KirkLauritzen (Dec 3, 2009)

odie said:


> *Did I Mention Home Sales are Great ?*
> 
> First I'll have to give an update about the "artistic melodrama". There is no more melodrama, at least in my life. I'm gone … I quit … walked out … packed up my art (boxes) and left ! It got so bad last November dealing with all those artists, not even an accomplished LumberJock could handle it. At least not this one. As soon as they got comfortable with me as their leader, things went all wrong. I had a few people trying to get away with breaking the rules behind my back, and these were some of my closest friends … nuff said !
> 
> ...


Hey Odie this was great
The wife and I are both selling (similar situation) and I found this so informative and absolutely hilarious. I woke the wife up laughing so hard reading it in the other room, and you know what? She doesn't like being called 'the wife' either! Learn something everyday if you pay attention I suppose…
Since she was up now, I poured her some coffee and we both enjoyed it.

Anyhoo, this was great we enjoyed it at every level. 
Great job, thanks for your post.


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## odie (Nov 20, 2007)

odie said:


> *Did I Mention Home Sales are Great ?*
> 
> First I'll have to give an update about the "artistic melodrama". There is no more melodrama, at least in my life. I'm gone … I quit … walked out … packed up my art (boxes) and left ! It got so bad last November dealing with all those artists, not even an accomplished LumberJock could handle it. At least not this one. As soon as they got comfortable with me as their leader, things went all wrong. I had a few people trying to get away with breaking the rules behind my back, and these were some of my closest friends … nuff said !
> 
> ...


Kirk, Glad you enjoyed. Since my last post here that same customer has been back 3 more times, with yesterday being the last. We've collected, from this wonderful guy, about $1200.00 since that last post.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

odie said:


> *Did I Mention Home Sales are Great ?*
> 
> First I'll have to give an update about the "artistic melodrama". There is no more melodrama, at least in my life. I'm gone … I quit … walked out … packed up my art (boxes) and left ! It got so bad last November dealing with all those artists, not even an accomplished LumberJock could handle it. At least not this one. As soon as they got comfortable with me as their leader, things went all wrong. I had a few people trying to get away with breaking the rules behind my back, and these were some of my closest friends … nuff said !
> 
> ...


I love A1Jims….............better they dont show up and still send you money.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

odie said:


> *Did I Mention Home Sales are Great ?*
> 
> First I'll have to give an update about the "artistic melodrama". There is no more melodrama, at least in my life. I'm gone … I quit … walked out … packed up my art (boxes) and left ! It got so bad last November dealing with all those artists, not even an accomplished LumberJock could handle it. At least not this one. As soon as they got comfortable with me as their leader, things went all wrong. I had a few people trying to get away with breaking the rules behind my back, and these were some of my closest friends … nuff said !
> 
> ...


I used to have so many rules but have now narrowed it down to just 2

My 2 promises for a customer

1. The job will done right

2. I will not loose money


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