# What did I get myself into?



## bigkev (Mar 16, 2011)

Call Grizzly.


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

I called them Friday, bigkev. They're the one that recommended the washer shim. I'll call again Monday.


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## Routerisstillmyname (Oct 16, 2008)

Is it a real hybrid saw meaning are the trunnions cabinet mounted or are they table mounts like contractor saw?


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

Being a hybrid saw, the trunnions are table mounted like a contractor saw.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Four stars is a surprising score, given your misalignment. I'm not familiar with the Grizzly trunion system but if the blade toes in/out while up/down, I'm not sure that's a shimmable fix It sounds like either the trunion is bent or I'm not understanding the situation. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this on what was supposed to be an exciting delivery. At least you have the measuring tools to make the diagnosis.


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## Todd1561 (Jan 10, 2011)

Sounds just like the Craftsman 21833 I purchased last year. You could set the blade parallel to the slots at any given blade height, but as you as you raised or lowered the blade the adjustment would be way out of whack. Seemed to be a machining defect with the trunnion system. The Craftsman had a single pivot point to raise and lower the blade which I tore all apart and suspect was mis-machined. Further research found many other people with the same issue.

I wonder if the Griz uses a similar system, or is made by the same Chinese factory? Given that this is a "hybrid" shouldn't that mean it has cabinet mounted trunnions? As has been suggested, probably your only option is to deal with Grizzly, I'm sure they'll be more responsive and knowledgeable that Sears was. But I doubt this is an issue you'll be able to fix at home, too bad since I can't imagine shipping a saw back to Grizzly will be easy. Maybe you can get them to ship you just a new trunnion assembly?

EDIT: I ultimately argued with the Sears staff long enough to let me return the saw after the 30-day return policy and I bought the Porter-Cable PCB270TS saw from Lowe's. While it's far from a professional cabinet saw, the blade was dead on right out of the box. It also has a form of cabinet mounted trunnions, just not the traditional big cast yoke setup the cabinet saw guys are used to. I've had the saw for about 6 months and have not had a single issue with it (knock on wood!).

Todd


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

*Al* -
The OP gave it just two stars in his review. The four stars shown on the right is the average of the six reviews of this saw.


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## smitty22 (May 1, 2010)

That's a shame, but stay on Grizzly until they replace the unit. As Todd described, sure sound like my Craftsman 21833, and it can't be fixed.


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

Four stars? I only meant to give it two even though I have yet to use the saw.


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

Grizzley has developed a good rep with the woodworking community. I'm sure they will work thru this with you.
Sorry it's so far out of whack but sounds like you have a dud. I'm fortunate, the grizzley products I have were spot on out of the box.


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## reggiek (Jun 12, 2009)

I think it is a bit premature to give them any rating. I have seen similar problems from every manufacturer….and it is what they do when they have this problem that really makes or breaks the rating IMHO.

I am following to see what they do about this….as probably alot of potential customers on LJ's. I have a Grizzly TS (but the full cabinet model G0691). I can at least say that my saw did not have this problem….it was almost dead on from the box….the stops were a bit off 90degree was 90.2…..45 was 45.3…..I tweaked the mounting bolts and that fixed that…...then tested the mitre slot….it was almost perfect…..I just needed to clean of the shipping grease (they really put it on) and adjust (tighten with the blade held at the correct angle) the arbor nut and it was ready to go. That Leeson motor on these saws is smooth (you could do a dime test on this saw if you could one to stand up on its own), very quiet for a 3hp and has not even missed a beat on some very hard woods. I too have a WWII - an excellent multi purpose blade.

I've used their customer support a couple times and they were very considerate and helpful. They shipped/did what they said they would. I received replacement parts (the riving knife was received bent and the small plastic rider on the blade guard had broken off) the next day from my call. So far, the majority of reviews are as complimentary towards their support department. Hopefully, they will stay on track and make this right also.


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

I live near the Springfield, MO showroom (I'm in St. Louis), and I drove there about six weeks ago, and brought back a 6" jointer. It was very accurate (within .002") for bed and fence flatness. I did have to reset the blades, though. I had hopes the new saw would yield me similar results.


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

I initially planned on getting the G0690, but it's an extra 100 lbs. over what this one weighs, and it was a struggle getting it down my basement stairs. If Grizzly agrees to replace this one, I believe I will upgrade to the G0690. I will have to hire someone to help move this one back to the garage, and to bring the G0690 to the basement. I won't ask my neighbor to again help, and I'm 70, not 45. I still have the box pieces, but I put the pallet out for the trash, and it's gone. I suppose I can use the pallet from the G0690 when it's delivered. Hopefully Grizzly won't have a problem with that. I'm anxious to see what they tell me when I call tomorrow about a replacement.


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## Routerisstillmyname (Oct 16, 2008)

True hybrid should have cabinet mounted trunnions. placing the motor inside and adding a dust collection on bottom doesn't make it true hybrid. And way too many manufacturers are pushing these types as hybrid and selling a pseudo contractor saw for higher price. the accuracy of a table saw and how frequent you have to re-calibrate it comes from trunnions. Either way, I don't get the 4 star rating on a defective product.
Ridgid r4511 is a true hybrid. ridgid r4512 is not.


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

Thanks for your input, routerisstillmyname, but to me, and from what others are also saying, a hybrid saw is usually a 2 hp vs. the 1.5 hp of a contractor saw, plus an enclosed base. The trunnions are still mounted to the table vs. the cabinet, which is why a cabinet saw is called that. I only gave it two stars. You're looking at the four-star average of the combined rating of the six reviewers. I would have given it one star, but I gave a second star for the nice fit and finish.


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## Cato (May 1, 2009)

Alpiner, what a bummer on what should be an exciting new tool to use!!

From what I have read on this forum, Grizzly has great customer service and should make it right for you I do hope.

I am in the camp with Routerisstillmyname in that to me a hybrid would have the cabinet mounted trunnions which is a major mark to me of a cabinet saw. I think the original Unisaws might have been 1 or 1.5 hp but had cabinet mounted trunnions and were a cabinet saw. I could be wrong on that point and others more in the know can correct me.

I have the R4511 and the partially enclosed base with DC port and most important to me the cabinet mounted trunnions were my main reasons for buying it. I would have rather had a cast rather than granite top, but the saw has served very well and is easy to align and adjust.

Hope you have good fortune is getting your situation corrected so that you can enjoy your new saw.


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

I'm confident that Grizzly will replace the saw; however, I will not replace like for like. I will spend the extra $$$ for a cabinet saw with cabinet-mounted trunnions. I should have done this to begin with. In all fairness to the Grizzly hybrid, though, the problem has nothing to do with the trunnions being mounted to the underside of the table. I believe it's a twisted or poorly machined trunnion which could happen on any type of saw.


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## Routerisstillmyname (Oct 16, 2008)

Sorry for the star rating confusion. Hummm, need stronger glasses. 
Since I do have a contractor saw, I can assure you, you will be much happier with cabinet saw with cabinet mounted trunnion.
As the Ron Popeil commercial used to say, you will set it and forget it ;-)


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## mcase (Oct 31, 2009)

Alpiner,

Smitty and Howie are right. Give Griz a chance to make it right. I think your idea of upgrading to a cabinet saw is sound. Get the lift gate service and note ANY damage.


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

Thanks. It's an extra $530 plus additional tax for the cabinet saw, but probably well worth it even if I have to pay a couple of movers to come, and move it to my basement. The hybrid was delivered by a UPS freight truck with a lift gate. I was surprised there wasn't an extra charge unless it's still forthcoming.


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## jgreiner (Oct 23, 2010)

Nothing'sucks more than buying a new produt then finding a defect. Unfortunatly this happens with any company, what really matters is how easily and quickly grizzly makes it right.


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

One positive note to this…..it's not a $45,000.00 pick up truck.

I know this has nothing to do with woodworking.


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

The latest is that Grizzly has agreed to take the saw back. Whether or not I get a full refund is based on the returned saw "subject to inspection". They have in their notes that there's a 55 thousandths variation from the saw blade being parallel with the miter gauge slot from a full-height blade to being 1" above the table surface. I'm sure the variation would be more if there was more blade surface to measure at the lower height.

I went ahead and purchased their G0690 which is what I should have purchased in the first place. I will have this one picked up when the new one is delivered. Hopefully I will receive full credit after the G0715P is returned and inspected. Right now I've purchased two saws. I'll have to pay $100 for a couple of local movers to carry the one in the basement up to the garage, and the new one carried down. I won't ask my neighbors to exhibit their strains and groans again.


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## Yupa4242 (Apr 12, 2011)

I was within a few days of buying this saw??? hmmm… Now I'm worried the other day yet again I was looked down on by the manager and his employees when they heard I was going to order this hybrid. They see Grizzly as a poor supplier of all types of equipment and say there less than helpfull. Woodcraft here In Madison,WI sells SawStop,GI,Jet,and Festool and they say I'm better off to spend more money from one of these with better warranties. I already tried to order from them over a month ago tried to order the Jet Proshop Contractor Saw but only after calling the looked into my order and found Jet backordered the saw 4 months. 
Now with this review and with no saw on order yet my new shop still lies idle.

Yesterday I called the Woodsmith Shop Store In Des Moines,IA where they sell Powermatic and Steel City TS's and they recomended 35960GR 10" Granite Cabinet Saw 1.75 HP, with Riving Knife, 30" Industrial Fence System and Table Board for a tad over 1000.00 and it has a Cabinet-Mounted Trunion System. I'm now looking into this as my purchase unless I get poor feedback on this as well.


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

Grizzly has sold hundreds of their hybrid saws, and I just happened to get a bad one. For all I know, the saw was dropped which bent a trunnion or gearing that caused my problem. Other than me and one other person that had a different problem, all feedback that I've read has been positive. I purchased one of their jointers, and have been very pleased with it. It was very accurate using a dial indicator and a feeler gauge. I'm receiving the new cabinet saw today, and I'm very hopeful that it will be fine. As several others have said, one of Grizzly's strong suits is their customer service. I believe they will do whatever is necessary to make the customer happy.


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## gbook2 (Jun 4, 2010)

Hmmm… the alignment problem you had with the Grizzly is identical to the alignment problem I, and many people, have had with the Craftsman 21833. It turns out the drive mechanism, trunnions, and height/tilt mechanisms of Grizzly G0715P are identical to the Craftsman 21833.

See this review of the Craftsman which includes a comparison of the schematics: http://gbook.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=62:craftsman-21833-table-saw-review&catid=38:woodworking&Itemid=56

I was considering getting the G0715P last year but decided against it when I found out the guts were the same as the Craftsman. Why pay nearly double if the internal mechanisms are the same? I figured it was either a design flaw causing the alignment problems or a manufacturing problem. Either way, the problem seemed likely to crop up again in the Grizzly, and there it is!

Its also funny, because I mentioned my concerns on sawmillcreek.org and the president of Grizzly responded on the site by saying "The saws are not made at the same factory". They may not be, but they do apparently share the same manufacturing or design problem. Congrats on getting the G0690 instead!


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

I have the hybrid disassembled with the parts boxed up, and ready to be moved up to my garage. I noticed a place on the bottom side of the curved opening where the paint had been worn off and the metal worn away just a bit in one spot. This is the curved opening where the shaft protrudes in the front for the height-setting wheel. The shaft and wheel moves as the blade swings between 45 and 90 degrees. I looks to be in the middle of the full swing. I don't think this has anything to do with the saw's alignment problem.


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## gillyd (Feb 26, 2011)

Alpiner, after reading your review and writing my own it caused me to go test my blade as well to the mitre slot. Low and behold, I get run out of up to nearly a 1/16th on the backside of the blade as I lower it from full height to 1 inch or a bit lower above the table, but the front stays dead on. I'm not sure what to do, or how to fix it. Thoughts? How concerned should I be? I could see myself in for a long and frustrating time trying to align it when I raise and lower the blade if I can't fix it.

I am going to call Grizzly soon if I can't figure out how to fix it.


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

Gillyd, did you do as I did and raise the blade all the way, then mid-way, then fairly low checking at each position? If the runout was pretty much equal, then all you need to do is to adjust the trunnions to bring you in alignment with the miter gauge slot. However, if you get varying amounts of runout as I did, then there's no way to make the adjustment. Even if you don't have a dial indicator as I do, you can get a good idea with an adjustable square.

If you do call Grizzly, you can refer me as having a similar problem, and there was one other person awhile back that also returned their hybrid for the same issue. One thing, though, is that Grizzly won't give you a refund until they have their saw and verify the problem. I waited a week for them to receive my saw (the next day after picking it up since Wildwood, MO is only 200 miles from Springfield, MO) before I called. They still hadn't looked at it. I'll call again Tuesday which will then be two weeks.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

I don't mean to stir the pot, but do you miss your JET? I'm a JET guy who's been resisting Grizzley's fanfare. I'm glad I understand your appropriate rating now. I sincerely hope you get this resolved.


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## Lorraine (May 29, 2011)

I am still confused. Guess I will wait a little longer before making my purchase. I had looked at the Craftsman hybrid.


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## Lorraine (May 29, 2011)

I think a good used professional tablesaw is beginning to look real good about now.


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

I do and I don't miss my Jet contractor's saw, Bertha. I miss it because it was perfectly set up right out of the box when I purchased it 15 years ago. I had to fine tune pretty much every setting on the Grizzly. I don't miss it because my new 3HP G0690 cabinet saw cuts through what I've thrown at it so far like butter. The 1.5HP Jet did bog down on occasion, and, having an open base, was pretty messy with sawdust. My HVAC units and water heater set very close-by, and sawdust is a concern even though I have a 2HP Grizzly dust collector. The sawdust factor is the primary reason I upgraded.


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

New or used, I'd definitely go with a closed-base cabinet saw where the trunnions attach to the base, not the underside of the table the way contractor and hybrid saws do. I got very lucky with my Jet as I never had to touch the trunnions for any adjustment in my 15 years of ownership, so it was never a factor.


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## gbook2 (Jun 4, 2010)

I completely agree with the cabinet saw idea. I stuck with the Craftsman 21833 because I couldn't afford a cabinet saw. The Grizzly 1023 series is only $400 more than the G0715P. It seems the Grizzly are Craftsman hybrids are hit or miss with the alignment issues. Looking at the Craftsman reviews, you'll see the same comments as in this thread: some people have great luck with the saw and no problems, others have a terrible time.

My biggest reason for getting a new saw was the riving knife, so a used saw wasn't really an option, because there are so few used saws that have a riving knife.


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

As I had mentioned in one of my previous posts, I returned the G0715P on May 17th. It was received by Grizzly in Springfield the next day; however, nothing regarding confirmation of the problem as of the 24th when I called. I called again today, and they did issue a complete refund to me. Now I'm in the hole for two saws, only one (G0690). Thanks to Grizzly for their amazing customer service.


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## DarrylJN (May 20, 2011)

I just received my Grizzly G0715P and went ahead with the A-LINE-IT system and discovered that the blade was off from front-to-back by about 12 thousands of an inch. I spent the next 4 hours loosening and tightening the trunnion mounting bolts (also talking with tech over at Grizzly) to try and align it and I just couldn't do it. So basically, I have to send this one back and they are sending another one out to me. The tech thinks that something may have gotten bent during shipping!!! This is my first real "professional" table saw so I am little disappointed but still very excited about the saw and I hope to get it all worked out.


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

I truly do wish you all the luck, Darryl. However, like gillyd's saw, this may be an inherent problem that's common with the G0715P. I don't know about your packing, but mine was perfect, so I believe that this problem had nothing to do with shipment. I think this is a manufacturing flaw where something has not been machined correctly. Once you set up your replacement saw, please comment on its accuracy. Those that have kept the saw and are pleased with it may not have taken check readings, but just preceded with using the saw. Twelve thousandths of an inch is easily seen even with a ruler just checking the distances between the front and rear of the blade. A good system like your A-LINE-IT or my TS Aligner, Jr. would not be a requirement to see such a discrepancy. Also see my notation regarding the inaccuracy of the included tape measure.


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## DarrylJN (May 20, 2011)

I will definitely let you know what my results are. To be honest, I kinda wanna take your route and upgrade but I can't afford to spend anymore on my saw so… The tech is going to call me tomorrow with more details but he did say that they were personally going to inspect the new one before sending it out to me.


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

I truly hope that works out for you. I drove to the Springfield, MO showroom to purchase a new jointer. When I set it up I discovered that the fence was somewhat warped with a .005" discrepancy. Grizzly sent a new fence saying they'd check it out first to make sure it was a good one. Well, the one they sent was worse than what came with the jointer. In fact, I think it had been previously used. It might have been one someone else returned. I returned it, and tweaked the first one to where it is acceptable.


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## DarrylJN (May 20, 2011)

Geez! Maybe I should just return it and get the Jet Hybrid over at Woodcraft! Man, what a bummer this is!


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

Are you aware of Grizzly's six month same as cash payment plan? You could get the G0690, and it would be an extra $85 or so a month over the price you paid for the G0715P. Something to consider.


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## DarrylJN (May 20, 2011)

Alpiner,
What do you think about the G1023P?

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-3-HP-220V-Cabinet-Left-Tilting-Table-Saw/G1023RL


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

I believe you mean G1023RL. From what I've read in other forums, it's better to spend the additional $125 and get the G0690.


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## DarrylJN (May 20, 2011)

LOL! Yes, sorry about that. The G0690 seems to be there big winner so maybe I will upgrade to that if I can. I will post the results either way. Thanks for your original review, I was skeptical of buying after reading your review and updates and look what happened!!! LOL!


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## DarrylJN (May 20, 2011)

Alpiner,
I just wanted to give you an update, I have decided to take my business elsewhere and received a full refund from Grizzly. I'm ordering a Jet instead!!!


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

Good luck with the Jet. Mine was good, but I had nothing to compare it to until I got the G0690. Big, big difference in so many respects. I hope your Jet is as good a quality out of the box as my 1996 was.


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## DarrylJN (May 20, 2011)

Thanks! I'm sure it will be better quality than the Grizzly that I just returned!


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## paulzall (Jan 13, 2011)

Alpiner,
Sorry to hear about your troubles with the G0715P. After reading this thread, I thought I had better check my own saw. It turned out to be good within .002" at all elevations, to my relief. But then I wondered what I would have to do to duplicate your problem. The answer: no adjustment could produce your results.

Looking at the geometry of the design, mathematically the only way your problem can happen is if the motor mount pivot shaft is not parallel to the arbor. The shaft (part # P0715P132) is simple enough that I would rule it out as the source of the trouble. That indicates a defect in the motor mount casting (part # P0715P115). There are three possibilities: 1) the pivot bore hole could be oversize with a sloppy fit for the pivot shaft, 2) The pivot bore hole could be out of perpendicular to the machined surface that rubs against the main trunnion, or 3) the casting became warped after machining was done.

In my opinion, the last is the most likely. The factory may not have aged the cast iron long enough to stabilize it before machining. If they had a bad batch of motor mount castings, Grizzly might be able to identify the serial numbers of the affected saws. At any rate, I think they should test every saw before they ship it. This is an unfortunate development because I was impressed with the high quality of the cast iron when I assembled my own saw.
-Paul


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

What you say definitely makes sense, Paul. I knew it had to be something internal, and nothing to do with the trunnion or the arbor or arbor flange which were within .001" runout. I would have been very happy with the saw had it been within .002 tolerance in all the settings like yours. It definitely offers more bang for the buck than my current G0690 even though this saw is obviously a better one.

Now if there was just a way for someone at Grizzly to follow up on your findings to make sure this doesn't happen to anyone else beyond this point. There are others that have experienced my problem, and I know there are others who have the problem, and don't know it.


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

Since I have an activity number regarding the problem, I think I'll call Grizzly about what you're saying pertaining to the possible cause of the problem. I'd like to qualify what you're saying first, though, Paul, if you don't mind. Are you a professional engineer or similar?


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## paulzall (Jan 13, 2011)

Alpiner,
Well, in answer to your question, I'm retired now, but yes I did teach electrical engineering before. It's probably more relevant that I worked in tool and die design a long while ago. Most of the time, I know what I'm talking about, but not always. ;-)
-Paul


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

Good enough for me, Paul. Hopefully that will satisfy them enough to look into the problem.


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## Austinmike (Apr 24, 2012)

Hi All -

Just joined today specifically to comment on this thread - thanks to all for their input here, as it would appear that I'm dealing with exactly the same issue. I just recieved a brand new g0715p, in great condition, (i.e. no shipping damage) and was excited to see what sorts of sawdust i could make..

This is my first "real" saw, my previous being a 1940's vintage first gen shopsmith, quite possibly the most dangerous saw out there.. My woman is an artist (sculptor) , and as such construction of frames and the various supports for her work fall squarely in my shop. the shopsmith makes for a great drillpress [debatable, but hey it belonged to my great grand father.. ] but as a table saw it was not going to cut it. literally.

Enter the polar bear.

After assembling checking testing and setting up (with a master plate and A-line It kit) I was happy - with the master plate zero'd in about halfway up the blade height, i adjusted to where the miter slot/blade was parallel to within .002". I then proceeded to cut up a sheet of 5mm underlayment for some cheap frames, and was impressed with the ease of dealing with a half sheet on this saw. This was good.

Then I decided to go ahead an cut the Zero Clearence insert (grizzly branded one made for this saw) following the instructions, I leveled and adjusted the plate, clamped a piece of scrap over the top and started cutting. very slowly.

enter the smoke.

About 1 inch (blade height) over the top of the insert, i had to stop. the motor was bogging down pretty badly, and i was starting to smell a little burnt sawdust and phenolic plastic. Not Good. Stopped the cut process.

At this point put the master plate back in (after reading this review post) and started to measured, and long story short if i zero the dial gauge at the middle of the master plate, and check parallel, I see a deviation of about .002". If I lower the plate down, i see .020" deflection at the front of the blade towards the right, and .001" at the back. If i raise the plate up to the top of the blade height, i see the front of the blade .030" inches left, and the back is .060" right. Basically the blade twists on the way up. hence the smoke.

I'll mention at this point that all measurements and cutting were done at a 90 degree blade angle. I handn't even approached testing at 45 degrees.

I understand this is not a precision tool room lathe, and i'm working with wood here, but i would think that at the minimum i could actually use a zero clearence plate here.

I've got a call in with grizzly, and hopefully this can either be returned or fixed (maybe there are shims i don't know about here , and hopefully soon, the artist will not want to wait!

I'll post an update here when I get this resolved, and would be happy to answer any questions - if my reasoning is incorrect here, please let me know (this collective community has far more exprience than I do) - My reason for this post is to let people know that this issue has not necessarily been fixed over time, and that it still can occur. I have faith that grizzly will stand by their product, and hope to have this resolved soon.

cheers!

Mike


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

Austinmike, I expect you have read my initial message at the beginning of this string. The machine cannot be repaired. The trunnions/arbor/something is twisted that makes the blade out of parallel as it's raised and lowered. I returned my hybrid for a G0690, and am very happy with it. When machinery is returned to Grizzly (their nickel) the item is checked out to validate the reported problem. They concurred with my findings. I cannot believe Grizzly continues to sell the hybrid saw without correcting the problem as more than just you or me have reported the same defect. There's a very good chance other buyers haven't read about the problem, and just live with this dangerous defect. I also did a writeup about the G0690 on Amazon.com where I commented about the hybrid.


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## Austinmike (Apr 24, 2012)

Heya! felt vaguely bad about resurrecting an old thread, but people need to know! I'm not holding out hope that this can be fixed, and in this case I'm hoping for a replacement - suppose we'll see where this all ends up. I took along hard look at the g0690 and while it would be nice, i can't justify having a 220 line run out my garage (in a rental house) and absorb the extra 500 for the saw, so for me I'm going to have to find a hybrid that will work. May be a bit of shipping involved.  On a more serious note tho, in the case of my saw, the way the blade is running out with the back of the blade at full height toed in towards the rip fence by .060" seems like not such a good thing..

anyhow, thanks again [all] for your original post - it definitely helped shorten the troubleshooting process.

Mike


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

I assume you're no longer going to use your new hybrid. Don't as it's a dangerous kickback waiting to happen. I also assume you will not be trading like for like as the replacement G0715P could have the same issue. Too bad about not being able to get the G0690. What a world of difference it makes. Sorry I can't recommend a different brand hybrid. I know Dewalt makes one as does Jet. My first saw, a contractor saw, was a Jet, and it was a good one; however, that was 16 years or so ago. Unfortunately, the old adage applies that they just don't make them like they used to.


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## Austinmike (Apr 24, 2012)

In the interest of presenting actual data, here is the info I observed :

Measurements were made using a Master plate and A-line it kit, from
the left miter slot. My method of measuring was to start with the
blade all the way up (against the stop), set this as zero, and
measured front to back at three blade heights (all the way up, middle
(approx) and as low as i could measure on the plate, which would be
about 3/4" of blade over the insert)

data is as follows :

position (front measure, back measure)
(negative is right of blade, positive is left)
top (.000", -.015")
middle (.024", .015")
lowest (.040", .055")

From this i can see an average of about .010 deviation front to back -
that can be corrected with a trunion adjustment - of note when i set
the saw up it was within .002", and after cutting some light ply (5mm
underlayment) the blade is out ( in the currently measured positions).

What is troubling here is that the from the lowest blade position to
the top blade position, the front of the blade moves about .040" left,
and the back of the blade swings through .078 " left which is
significant - the clue to me that i had a problem was when i tried to
cut a zero clearence insert - that resulted in binding and i was
unable to get the blade to its highest position. (when cutting, I'm
using a forrest Woodworker 2, 40teeth, thin kerf - per testing, the
blade is within .002" flat, the same as the master plate)

I also tested the plate/a-line it combo as the blade falls, at three
positions corresponding to the front, over the arbor, and back of the
plate. I started with the blade in the highest position, and measured
a top, mid and bottom measurement as the blade was lowered. the dial
indicator was zero'd at the top position.

here is the data :

Blade height (Front, Arbor, Back)

Up all the way (.000", .000", .000")
mid point on the plate(.030"., 040", .055")
lowest point (.047", .078", .101" (!) )

I also noticed that when the blade hits the bottom stop the whole
arbor assembly (arbor arm, blade) visibly shifts to the right. (maybe .1" or so - correct me if my assumption is wrong here, but that arbor assembly should not ever move to the right - looks almost like it is loose on pivot/shaft)

Lastly, I used a wixley angle cube to see how the blade angle changes
with height (zero'd the angle cube on the table, then attached it to
the blade and ran it down - not sure if it is a valid measure, but figured i'd throw this in)

data :
top - 90.0 degrees
mid point - 89.6 degrees
Bottom position - 89.3 degrees


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## Austinmike (Apr 24, 2012)

apologies, i had my directions mixed up in the first post - didnt have my notes when I first posted.


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

I don't recall my numbers…..too long ago, and I didn't record them….except as mentioned in my first post that using my TS Aligner, Jr., which is probably similar to your A-Line It, I zeroed out the blade fully extended since it gave me the greatest surface to work with. When I lowered the blade half way, I got a .040" reading. When I zeroed out the blade at the half way setting, I got a toe-in reading with the blade fully extended, and a toe-out reading with the blade up just enough to allow me to take a reading. I do recall the full swing was about .070".

I'm not familiar with the A-Line It, but I can zero out my TS Aligner, Jr. to take both dead flat in 90 and 45 degree blade settings. Both preset stops are perfectly set now. Good peace of mind.

I didn't spend a lot of time checking, but it seems that about the only saws available to run in 120V are contractor saws. I checked a couple of hybrids, Dewalt and Jet I think, and they were 220V.


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## Austinmike (Apr 24, 2012)

Hi all - quick update here.. after a bit of back and forth with grizzly my saw was sent back for analysis with the grizzly support group - the quickly ascertained that my saw was "way out of spec and alignment" the next day they shipped a new saw, that was in fact quality checked at the factory. got this in my garage on monday and i'll be setting up and tinkering with this weekend - but an initial measurement shows a saw that holds to .001" front to back on the blade, and varies .002" top to bottom - completely better in my book, and once this is settled and tuned I'll be looking forward to making some sawdust.. kudos to grizzly for their handling, just wish it had been right the first time. (also, i did not pay a dime extra past the initial purchase)

Mike


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## Grover1 (Aug 1, 2012)

Bad news here…got my new GO715 hybrid this past weekend after reading good reviews elsewhere. My saw has exactly the same misalignment problem. Aligned the blade to miter slot at full height dead on; lowered to cutting height of 1-3/16", about a tooth above the workpiece. The blade twisted to the right on a diagonal line from front left to rear right. First measurements showed .022" misalignment between front/rear of blade. Played around with alignment at 45 degrees, thinking maybe changing the shimming (per manual) would correct it. No improvement at all. Also, following Tech suggestion, I used a ratchet belt clamp wrapped around the trunnions (bolts loosened) to pull the trunnions into a tight fit and then retightened the bolts. This actually shifted the blade about a half-kerf to the left (I know b/c I'd already kerfed my zero clearance plate…no zero clearance now!). But, no luck. Aligned blade/miter slot at lower height of 1-3/16", then raised to full height. Blade twisted to the left on same diagonal, now out of alignment by .017". Packing it up to send back; haven't decided whether to accept it back if service dept say they can fix it.
Austinmike-how is your new saw doing at this point?


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## Austinmike (Apr 24, 2012)

@grover1-

I've been using mine off and on for about 2 months now, and i have not had any problems with the saw, It has stayed in alignment well, cuts very nicely, and i really cannot complain. I'm building sort of deep shadow boxes for an art project, and just finished up a box joint jig, cutting with this jig i get nice tight joints, if that gives you any ideas.. I did a bit of emailing back and forth with grizzly during the period where my original saw was back in their shop, but they came to the conclusion that it could not be fixed, and I was sent a new saw. Also the new saw went through a pretty thorough alignment/QC check (there was an orange sticker indicating this on the shipping carton) and i really cannot complain at this point. so for a minor amount of annoyance at not having a saw and productivity loss I'm happy with the saw. (giddy in fact.) for the price I'm defintinely happy, and i was able to spend a bit less on the saw and I've got a nice set of forrest blades (ww2, dado king) (cannot recommend them highly enough, should be trying out a duraline hi a/t tonight) the fence was a bit fiddly to get settled, but once I got it dialed in, i'm very happy with it - very solid, easy to use. just get a different miter gauge (the one that comes with it is, well, crap. i ended up wih an incra 1000hd)


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## DarrylJN (May 20, 2011)

Grover1,
I think the issue is that the trunion bolts are hard to get to and hard to keep straight when attempting to tighten each one. It seemed like if I tightened one side then other side went out of whack. There is option you can try called PALS CTS alignment kit that might work but I don't know if there is enough room for you to get them in there and then to be able to use the alan key to make the micro-adjustments.

3/8 inch kit
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2020591/22764/pals-cts-alignment-kit-38-in.aspx

5/16 inch kit
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2020591/22765/pals-cts-alignment-kit-516-in.aspx

I ended up purchasing a Jet JPS-10ts and I absolutely love it. I checked the alignment straight of the box and it was perfect. One great feature that I like on the Jet is that it has a small opening in the back of the saw this is specifically there to adjust your trunions if need be. You can loosen and tighten the bolts from the outside by bringing your wrench through the slot, I thought that was kinda cool. I also lock the like feature on the table top so you can lock blade while changing them. To be honest, the price for the Jet (at that time) was not much more than the Grizzly so I think it might be worth checking out. One other consideration is warranty, Jet has a 5 year warranty and Grizzly has a 1 year warranty. Keep in mind, I'm not saying Grizzly isn't good because I have a Jointer and it's really good but there is too much negative feedback on this specific model to risk going through the whole shipping and receiving process again.

Darryl


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## Austinmike (Apr 24, 2012)

Having just bought two of those kits, both in 3/8s and 5/16s, i'd just warn that the bolts on the griz are actually 10 mm metric - I figure i have at least two shots at modifying the brackets to fit a 10mm bolt..


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

So sorry to hear about your similar problem to so many others, Grover1. I wish more potential buyers would heed my advice in my initial message that I wrote 15 months ago. I am extremely happy with my replacement Grizzly G0690 cabinet saw. It is a jewel!


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## DarrylJN (May 20, 2011)

Alpiner,
Yep, I was one of those who didn't listen to you


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

Don't feel too bad. You haven't been the only one. Just learn from your mistakes, and go with a saw that's been well received by other owners. I'd still get with the G0690 if I had it to do over.


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## Grover1 (Aug 1, 2012)

Thanks for the quick responses all! Alpiner, I'm also considering hiring movers to haul mine out my shop and up the 60 yd hill to the street…going down hilll was just barely manageable with a hand truck, but no way I can do it back up by myself and don't really want to inflict that on any friend. I'll look over the G0690, and Darryl same with the Jet, thanks for the recommendation.


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## Alpiner (May 7, 2011)

UPS freight delivered and picked up mine from the garage. I, too, have an uphill driveway that's probably 20 yards in length. I had a couple of movers take it up from my basement to the garage. UPS freight had a device like a manual forklift that worked great taking it up the hill to the truck with a lift gate.


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## Grover1 (Aug 1, 2012)

Well, AustinMike, I'm trying to decide whether to go your route. UPS picked up my hybrid Tuesday afternoon and Grizzly service called this morning…so, quick turn around on receiving and checking. They agreed w/ my findings, agreed it was probably a trunnion casting defect and are offering to replace or refund. The service rep said they would pull a new saw from a different production run (think that's how he put it), check and set alignments and give me a call on whether I want to take it. No additional shipping cost.

My thinking at this point is, those who got a good saw first time off the truck are happy with their purchase (reason for my decision to get the Grizz hybrid in first place). Mike, you certainly seemed pleased with the second saw that was given individual QC inspection. The individual QC check would seem to make the second hybrid a far safer bet than starting over either w/ another Grizzly model from the factory or another company's factory. Sound reasoning or wishful thinking?


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## Austinmike (Apr 24, 2012)

@grover -

i totally understand your position - from my view, and after getting some time in using, i'm still happy with it - Grizzly did right by me, and the qc'd second saw was within .002 true to the miter slot when it came , so I'm good. (I'll fine tune later) for me, its the right footprint, runs on 120 (and with enough power to not bog down under loads like a full dado in phenolic ply), and even the rip fence is decent. based on my experience i'd say you are in pretty safe teritory, and so far i havent seen anyone complaining of this breaking down over the long term.

my 2 cents 

Mike


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## TomInIndy (Dec 22, 2011)

> Having just bought two of those kits, both in 3/8s and 5/16s, i d just warn that the bolts on the griz are actually 10 mm metric - I figure i have at least two shots at modifying the brackets to fit a 10mm bolt..
> 
> - Austinmike


Hey Austin Mike, I was just wondering if you ever put the Pals on yet?
thanks
tom


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## Kentuk55 (Sep 21, 2010)

You are the second person that has had this same problem. I know this was 2011 and now it's 2016, so, I hope Grizzly has fixed this by now


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

I have the same saw & have had zero issues with mine.

Maximum extension (up against the stop) is not the spot to check. Do it at the mid point and tighten the elevation & angle locks & then measure. I'll bet it was dead on all along.

Since you installed the fence any misalignment is on you, not Grizzly. Did you follow the alignment steps after installing the fence?

What was the runout on the blade you aligned with?

M


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