# How well do diamond sharpening stones hold up for sharpening, and do you really come out ahead?



## intelligen

I've been trying to learn what I can about sharpening and it seems most people on LumberJocks either use the Scary Sharp method with sandpaper, or water stones. The drawback to Scary Sharp is that it's expensive over time, and the drawbacks to water stones is that they are messy and require constant flattening. It seems most people try to put off sharpening with their water stones as long as possible, opting instead for multiple chisels of the same size or multiple plane blades they can swap out.

A lot of people elsewhere report using diamond plates and claim that they'll last forever, but it isn't clear if those people are just buying into the hype or if they've actually used the diamond plates for years upon years already (in most cases, my guess is that they wrote the reviews shortly after buying the diamond plates).

I've seen some recommendations to buy diamond stones if you don't already own water stones because the diamond sharpening plates will last forever. The impression I get is that they're cheaper than sandpaper in the long run and aren't much more expensive than water stones but with much less hassle. Any other opinions on this from someone who's tried diamond plates in addition to one or both of the other methods?

An article by Chris Schwarz says that he keeps burning through diamond plates, and that only the DMT DiaFlat has held up over time.

Chris does say that he sharpens every day, and that hundreds of students also use his equipment, but how do diamond plates hold up over time for other woodworkers? If you were starting out fresh and didn't have any sharpening equipment, what would you buy?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

From a practical standpoint, I've had a pair of two-sided duo-sharp DMTs for a couple years and haven't wanted for anything yet. I use them about every couple weeks on one kind of edge or another, along with a strop.

I tried sandpaper (scary sharp) for awhile and was confounded by the lack of retail store inventory of finer grits AND the way I burned through the paper. The spending was kinda stupid to my way of thinking when I diamond would last many years. They have lasted for me, and I don't regret the change.

Recently picked up a couple oilstones for (literally) pennies at auction and have been toying with them for quick iron touchups, and like them too. Just grab and go. And it's working on my freehand when I'm after a quick edge. But I'll always return the iron to the DMTs to get the primary bevel razor sharp.


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## BJODay

Good topic. I have a 2 sided water stone. It works well but I hate the mess. I've been debating buying a diamond plate. I will follow this thread.

What grits of diamond plate should a person use?

If I have a leather strop, what is the finest grit plate I would need?

Bj


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

This is the setup I have been using for a couple years, and finish with green compound on a strop. The result is a mirror finish on the backs of irons and terrific edge.

http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/DMT-Duosharp-Plus-Diamond-Kit-P248C3.aspx


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## LexBoegen

My experience with diamond stones is varied-the coarser they are, the more quickly they wear out. I think this is because the diamond grit is held to the stone with a layer of nickel plating, so the larger the grit, the less it is supported by the thin layer of nickel. With diamond stones it is important to not press down firmly when sharpening. Let the diamond do the work. I have a full range of DMT stones, from their extra-coarse up to their extra-fine. I'm only unhappy with the two extremes of the range. The extra-fine Dia Flat stone is so fine, I can't tell which side of the stone has the diamonds embedded in it (and I've used a USB microscope to examine it!)

That said, I like diamond stones overall. If I have something that really needs heavy grinding to establish a new bevel angle or remove knicks and damage, I'll use a grinding wheel or belt sander for that now. For the final polishing, I like to use 3M film (from Lee Valley) that has up to 0.5 micron particles, then finish with a green oxide compound on MDF or leather strop. My diamond stones are used for everything in between the rough grinding and final polishing.


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## JohnChung

I own an Iwood diamond plate. It is definitely wearing down after I lap my waterstones. I do not use my diamond stones for sharpening just lapping.

If you can get a diamond stone that does not wear down then try it out. The problem is that you may not get enough grit choices. I own from 120 to 16000 grit for Shapton. Each grit is well worth it. If the diamond plate has that grit range you fix edge chips and polish the blade at the final stages.

Most of the time I just use 1000,2000,5000,8000 for sharpening. 120 is more for badly chipped edges.


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## PaulJerome

I bought into the hype of water and diamond and i returned to sandpaper. The cost of paper is not what you would think once you have flat backs and the required bevel, sanding the microbevel is about a 10 second job. Don't waste the money on the stones. Oil and wet dry sandpaper is the way to go. No mess and easy with razor sharp edges. If you're at a home center look for the finer grits in the automotive section. I sand to 2000 grit and the polish is mirror-like with fantastic results.


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## Loren

Water stones do not require constant flattening unless you insist
on using a sharpening method that dishes them out. All 
sharpening jigs which ride on the stone surface will dish the 
stone.

I use the Burns sharpening system. 2 EZE-Lap diamond plates
and a finishing water stone. It's reasonably quick, does
not dish or gouge the water stone, and it can be used
for back-beveling plane irons.


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## Tim457

Here's the Paul Seller's method. 



He's pretty old school but uses diamond stones. He says between him sharpening every day and using them at his schools the EZE lap stones last 5 years or something like that. He says that use by a regular woodworker they would last nearly forever. He doesn't use the coarsest or the finest. Well it is the finest EZE lap has, but DMT sells a finer one.


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## JohnChung

I flatten the waterstone just enough to remove the pencil mark. It also renews the surface of the stone which cuts metal like it's brand new.

Here is a test. Don't sharpen the coarse stone. Just use it consistently. It's effectiveness reduces dramatically. The constant use practically glaze the waterstone. The Shapton 120. After the surface renewal it can cut metal very well again.


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## intelligen

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. I'll look into the EZE lap or DMT stones…maybe I'll just get whatever's cheaper, or one or two of each. One of Paul Sellers' videos even suggested sharpening to just 250 grit to avoid having to rough the surface back up for finishing. I'm not sure I'll go to quite that extreme, but maybe I'll hold off on the 8000+ grit for now. I've only recently started to run across comments about Paul Sellers, but I ended up watching about an hour's worth of his videos the first time I looked him up on YouTube. I'll have to look up the Burns system too.

I'll probably also try out sharpening with sandpaper since there isn't much of an investment required and I should probably have a better inventory of sandpaper on hand anyway.

Loren and John, thanks for the clarification on flattening. Somewhere I read that you need to flatten the stones each time you use them, but I think they were using a jig that rides on the stone.


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## Loren

I use a nagura stone to deglaze water stones. Glazing on finishing
stones is really a problem without it in my experience. I have a 
Makita wet grinder with a 1000 grit wheel and I use a lot
of water and use the nagura often to manage the glazing.
Honing by hand glazing is not a problem on a 1000 grit stone
but it starts to be as you go up in grit from there.


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## JohnChung

@Loren- Where did you get your Nagura stone? May want to try it on Shapton Pro.


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## Loren

I've had it forever and don't remember. It lasts a long time. 
Japan Woodworker or Lee Valley would be a good source 
if you can figure a reason to order other stuff and 
combine shipping. Ebay maybe.


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## Tony_S

I've got a combination of ez-lap's and dmt's. One of them(can't remember which is which) is an easy 20 years old and has been used pretty hard.
It's definitely worn, but still works great.

Truthfully, I actually prefer using them(diamond stones) once they've worn down a bit…call it "broken in".

Keep in mind, sharpening is a strange topic. Some people are completely over the edge about it. There's a lot of different ways to go about it that work just fine.
Pick a method and practice until your comfortable with it. 
The guys that seem to get frustrated with sharpening are the ones who jump around from method to method without mastering any of them.


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## LoriF

*ROB*

Paul Sellers - How to sharpen a handplane.

"I have and do use EZE Lap diamond plates. The ones I use are coarse, fine and superfine. I use the 3" x 8" (75mm x 200mm). They last for a long time even at the school where people are constantly sharpening on them. These are the best of all sharpening plates and I thoroughly recommend them above all others".

EZE Lap coarse is 250, fine 600 and superfine 1200. $120 Amazon, $180 Ebay, and $200 Eze-lap.com


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## TheWoodenOyster

I use a double sided DMT DiaFlat 10" x 4". The grit as labeled by DMT is Coarse/Extra Fine, Which equates to 325/1200. I do have waterstones, but unless I am flattening the back of something, the DMT stones and a strop are all I use.

I do Paul Seller's freehand method, using both sides of my diamond stone then on to the strop. I have shaving sharp results that are more than adequate for fine woodwork. I wish I had discovered this technique earlier. I love it because it is fast and makes sharpening less of a science experiment. I did the high-end honing guides and waterstones and didn't like it much, though many have had great success with that setup.

For a first time kit, I think my setup with one doublesided DMT stone and a strop is a great place to start. about $100 in and you'll be ready to sharpen. Even if you don't continue to use the Paul Sellers method, I have no doubt you would still make use of a diamond stone and a strop. They are both stellar investments.

As far as the aging of the diamond stones, I have never noticed any issues. I have had my DMT stone for about 2 years now and use it about 3 to 4 times a month. My guess is that Paul Sellers and Chris Schwarz go thru stones much faster than most of us, so something in my shop or your shop would likely last 5 to 10 times as long. I wouldn't concern yourself too much with burning thru stones unless you are a full-time career furniture maker. And even then, it sort of equates to burning thru blades-it just happens and we buy new ones once a decade. In the end, most things in a shop are consumable, and a 10 yr lifetime on sharpening stones seems good enough to me.


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## waho6o9

Great advice above.

You might consider adding stropping to your sharpening system as well.

MDF, or adhering leather to a flat surface and charging it with honing compound
will polish the edge on your chisels and plane irons.
This keeps the edge from dulling when you're in the middle of some joinery.

Lee Valley offers green honing compound.


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## bbc557ci

I bit the bullet yesterday and ordered the DMT 4×10 2 diamond stone kit. Been pondering on this sharpening thing for a long time. Really spoiled myself and also ordered the Veritas guide. Ordered from SharpeningSupplies.com as they seem to have the best prices. Now I just need to decide on what chisels to go with….WAY too many choices there /

And, I bit a much bigger bullet yesterday too, and ordered me up a Rikon 10-325. Bet the next few days are really gonna drag on slowly!!


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## funchuck

I have used various sharpening methods (sandpaper, waterstones, oilstones and diamond). I have the fine DMT stone that works good, but I also have a course/xcourse DMT and wore it out within a month. The course/xcourse was used to flatten all the backs of a set of chisels, and flatten some dished waterstones. After doing those things, it never cut well again.

I remember when I first bought the course/xcourse, I ran my fingers on the surface and it felt very rough. But after it wore out, it now feels smooth.

I was really put off of DMT because of that, but years later, I ended up buying a DiaFlat and am very satisfied with it. I have only used the DiaFlat for my oilstones and I feel it cuts as good as the day I bought it.

If you really want an easy way to maintain your edge, try what's been suggested above, use a strop. I use one, and I rarely need to go to my stones anymore. It's really easy to strop chisel edges since you don't need to remove it like if it's in a plane.


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## intelligen

Wow, there are even a lot of different sizes. A longer stone just means you can make (fewer) longer strokes, making the stone last a little longer, right? Or is there more to it?

I'm leaning toward the 3×8 EZE Lap Fine and Extra Fine ($34 each on Amazon).

The 3×8 Coarse DMT (325 grit) is about $10 cheaper than the EZE Lap (250 grit) but I've read the DMT fractures to a coarser grit over time. Does anyone have any strong opinions whether or not I should go with one over the other?

(Amazon also has both stones in either "Used - Very Good" or "Used - Like New" condition for a few bucks less.)

It sounds like the one thing that really kills most coarse diamond stones is using them to flatten water stones. It sounds like I'm not flattening water stones, a normal coarse stone should hold up just fine. If I later pick up some water stones and want to flatten them, I should get a DiaFlat. Is that a fair assessment?

As several of you suggested, I'll add a strop and some compound too since they're pretty cheap.


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## Loren

I've had a coarse EZE-lap for about 15 years. I got kind of
frustrated with it over time. A year or so back I soaked
it in soapy water and aggressively scrubbed it clean with 
a nylon bristle brush. It has cut much better since. 
The loading wasn't that visibly obvious. I always use water
on the diamond stones but it isn't enough to prevent
the loading over time apparently.


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## intelligen

Loren, that's one very important tip that you or someone else mentioned before. I keep forgetting about it but will have to write myself a bunch of reminders and might need to just get into the habit of scrubbing the diamond stone every once in a while.

I wonder if a good scrubbing would have helped in most of the cases where someone flattened their water stones and noticed afterward that the diamond stone wasn't sharpening any more.


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## intelligen

Another quick question…what are the reasons to opt for double-sided over single-sided, or vice-versa? I guess double-sided stones come out a little cheaper and might be better if you're on-the-go a lot but it might be a little more convenient to just move from grit to grit without having to flip over the stone. Are there any other differences, such as durability or flatness and rigidity (double-sided appear to have plastic in between the two sides)?

I'm somewhat contemplating getting a double-sided EZE-LAP coarse/something else since it's only $6-$7 more than the single-sided coarse stone. I also thought about getting combinations of SuperFine/Coarse, Fine/SuperFine, and Coarse/Fine so I basically have 2 entire sets and can just flip them all over when the first side wears out…but that seems excessive if they last 10-15 years anyway and might not wear down at the same rate.


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## koraile

I have seen those Diamond sharpeners you use, but i find it a bit slow. I have been using this machine for 10-15 years i think, i might have switched stone once, and the leather plates i have swithed a few times because of wear. I had a simmilar one before that, and before that we used the hand stones and leater strapp, but that like when i was a kid. I sharpen irons i use at least once every 30 mins-1 hour at a minimum.

I use the stone rotating towards me so the heat gets dragg back in the iron in stead of in the tipp so it burns the metal.  as my grand-dad told me, in the old old days they said dont let women and moonlight tutch Your irons, then they got useless. I shape the stone to my liking With a shaping stone, so its usable for all irons, and i do them on freehand, the angle plate just got in the way at one point, so did the rest of the parts lol 

On the leather plate i have it rotating from me, if not the iron will cutt in ofc, and i never move the iron below the center!!

I use a Siler grade Diamond paste on the leather plates. This is the way we have done it in the Family for the last 20-25 years, so a few bad habbits might have occured along the way


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## bbc557ci

Rob - I saw a vid about diamond sharpeners and the guy mentioned not to put a ton of pressure on the diamond stone. Instead use light to moderate pressure and simply let the stone do the work, and the stone will last and last. As far as flattening a water stone, why not adhere a piece of sand paper to a flat surface and flatten with that. Or be a total red neck and just flatten the water stone on a cement block….if ya find a straight/flat one )


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## floyd1365

one of the few things worth the money at harbor freight are the diamond sharpeners. an economical way to try them before you invest more. I use them for chisels and plane blades with a home made guide to hold the angle and water. as good as the "scary sharp" system which I have also used with wet/dry paper and water.


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## ColonelTravis

floyd you are right about those HF blocks. I got one a while back and I don't use it for tools because of its size, but for knives and scissors I like it. I think it only goes to 600 so you're not going to get that insanely sharp edge but I'm not that into knives and scissors.

To add to what Loren said about cleaning diamond stones every now and then - Bar Keepers Friend and a brush.


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## Planeman40

My sharpening setup begins with a belt sander for the initial shaping of a blade. I then move on to coarse water stones for the final shaping. This, of coarse, is beginning with something that is not close the desired final shape of the blade. Once the blade is shaped, I use coarse and medium diamond plates and laps to bring the edge to a sharp point, using a head band magnifier and a strong light to see that the edge - when looked at head on - shows no flat spots. This tells me that the edge is now very sharp. From this point I begin polishing the edge using a Arkansas oil stone. I like Arkansas stones as they tend to remain flat, unlike water stones. When the edge is sufficiently polished to a mirror finish, I often use a hard cotton buff and black emery compound to polish it some more. I complete the sharpening with a leather strop. I have a number of leather strops I have made of different sizes and shapes, large flat ones for plane irons, half-round ones of various sizes for carving and lathe tools. I am not satisfied until the blade will shave the hair off my arm. If it doesn't, I go back a step or two and work some more, finishing again with the strop.

Once an edge is PROPERLY SHARPENED this way, a few swipes of a strop or maybe a few passes on an Arkansas stone and then back to the strop are all that is needed to bring back that razor edge.

Anyway, this is my method.

Planeman


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## JJohnston

My extra coarse DMT Dia-Sharp seems to have worn out in a very short time (I wash it in the dishwasher, but I'll try scrubbing it before passing final judgment). The others seem to be working, but if I had it to do over, I wouldn't bother with it. It doesn't do anything a bench grinder or belt or disc sander doesn't do better, and faster. I finish off with a Shapton 6000 grit, and I wouldn't mind having a whole suite of them over the diamond stones, even though it means flattening them.


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## intelligen

Bill, thanks for the tip on a light touch when sharpening with the diamond stones. What was the main reason you went with a double-sided stone instead of separate stones? Was it the price? I'm still trying to figure out if there are any other pros & cons as far as double-sided vs. single-sided stones.

I'm not getting any water stones to start out, but have been trying to figure out why some people say their coarse diamond stones don't last very long. The one thing they all seem to have in common is that they use the coarse stone to flatten their water stones, but maybe they were just clogged up like what happened with Loren's.

Planeman, sounds like you've got this down to a science! Is there any reason why your technique of only going down in grit as-needed wouldn't work with other sharpening setups? Do most people sharpen like that, or do they usually start at a lower grit all the time when resharpening blades?


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## bbc557ci

Rob - I'm not a sharpening guru by any means what so ever so I gotta go with my gut and or what I believe to be common sense….to me anyways. I went with the double sided 4 course kit for a couple of reasons. Initially I was just going to get the course/fine with the holder/stand. Cost would be +,- $135.00. I figured the course would be a good start, and the fine would likely bring a chisel to sharpness adequate for use. Now, not being all that familiar with the diamond stones, I thought the maybe super fine might be a good thing or might be needed for final honing/sharpening. And as far as the super course, I have an older Delta electric grinder/sharpener with a 10×2 inch wet wheel that is an tad out of round. And figured I could prolly use the really course DMT to true up the wet wheel. I'd try and just use the very end of the super course DMT on the wheel so I don't mess it (the DMT) up. So, that's how/why I ended up ordering the 4 grit package, + it does come with that nifty stone holder )

Earlier tonight I was out and about and I stopped at Home Depot. I picked up a 3 set of the less than well thought of Buck Bros. Chisels, cost about $20.00 and package says made in the USA. In addition I also grabbed a 3/8 in. Buck also USA stamed on the package. (Buck Bros. also has a set at HD for about $10.00, made in china) Ok, so the steel is probably made up of old recycled soup cans but…... I figure they'll due until I figure out what chisels I really want. And I'll use them and see what sizes I use the most. And eventually I'll pick up some good quality chisels, and use the Bucks for glue removal and other nasty stuff.


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## Planeman40

"Planeman, sounds like you've got this down to a science! Is there any reason why your technique of only going down in grit as-needed wouldn't work with other sharpening setups? Do most people sharpen like that, or do they usually start at a lower grit all the time when resharpening blades?"

There really isn't any science to it. Coarser stones do the job faster but leave scratches, the coarser the stone the deeper the scratch. If you jump too quickly from a coarse stone to a fine stone, the fine stone will do the job but it takes much more time and work to polish out the scratches than using a medium grit stone in between. For this reason you want to work downward in steps from coarse to fine in grit increments. Only through experience will you get a feel of how much of a jump you can make in grit size so the time and effort of sharpening are minimized.

I view sharpening as divided into "shaping" and "sharpening" as I noted in my write-up. The moving from coarse to fine grit works for all types of shaping and sharpening "stones" (included are diamond plates and laps). As far as choosing water stones, India stones, carborundum stones, Arkansas stones or diamond plates and laps, all work well, some a little faster, some a little slower, and each type has some pluses and minuses. Water stones work fast but are messy, wear relatively quickly and have to be occasionally re-flattened. India and Arkansas stones use light oil like 3-in-1, work a little slower but tend to wear very little and retain their flatness. Also Arkansas stones only come in the finer grades of grit and are mostly used in the last stages of sharpening. Diamond plates and laps are used dry, no water or oil. Carborundum stones use light oil and are usually pretty coarse in grit and cut fast. Some people like one, some like another. But they all work.

As to re-sharpening an already sharpened blade that has dulled a bit from use, you only have to use the fine stones and a strop to touch up the edge. Sometimes only some stropping is all that is needed. The only time you need to go back to the coarser stones is when a blade has nicks or has been abused, but only enough to remove the problem. The really coarse stones and a belt sander are used when you are starting from scratch with a rough forging or a misshaped or badly damaged blade.

At the moment I am making a full set of 62 carving chisels and gouges beginning with rough heat-treated forgings. These forgings needed my 1" x 36" belt sander and the coarsest water stones I had . There was a lot of that shaping thing to do before I settled down to the actual polishing and sharpening process. Each chisel took from two to four hours of shaping-sharpening to get it right. All of them are polished to a mirror finish and are razor sharp. Also, my left and right forearms are bald from testing. I am about to begin turning all of the handles using a home-made duplicator I am now finishing up for my 12" Delta wood lathe.

Planeman


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## intelligen

Planeman, thanks for the extra details, that helps a lot.

I ended up ordering the EZE Lap Coarse/Fine stone and the EZE Lap SuperFine stone along with some chromium oxide polishing compound, all for under a hundred bucks. I might swing by Goodwill to see if I can find a leather belt or something to make a strop. I'll let you guys know how well the combo works out.


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## TopamaxSurvivor

If you have a Tandy Leather, they have a lot of scrap and a shoe repair shop will prob ably have some too.


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## intelligen

There's a shoe repair shop right around the corner from my wife's shop. I don't know why I didn't think to check there; thanks for the suggestions, TopamaxSurvivor!


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## Planeman40

I would urge you to buy a fine Arkansas stone. A large flat one for flat blades. And if you are into small blades and carving tools, There are some small Arkansas stone shapes - round, triangular, etc. Fine Arkansas stones are of an even finer grit than the finest diamond plates and laps and are the very last stone to use before stropping. They aren't cheap, but they last forever. Search "Arkansas stones" on Google. These are the secret to that razor edge everyone talks about.

Also, for sharpening small tools, drill bits, etc., you can't beat the small 3/4" dia. diamond discs sold by Harbor Freight (http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece-diamond-coated-rotary-cutting-discs-69657.html). These are made to be used in a Dremel tool. Adjust the speed of cutting by adjusting the speed of the Dremel. They go on sale occasionally so stock up then. And they last a surprisingly long time.

Planeman


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## intelligen

Planeman, I just watched a short video on the types of Arkansas stones. By "fine" do you mean a hard black Arkansas stone? Also you mentioned earlier that they retain their flatness pretty well. Have you ever had to flatten them, and if so, how many sharpenings (ballpark number) would you say they can take before they need to be flattened?

Not sure if I'll get an Arkansas stone starting out but maybe I'll graduate to using one when I get a little more experience. Also I forgot to mention it before, but I'm looking forward to seeing your chisel set. Be sure to post some pictures under your projects or blogs.

Thanks, guys, for the HF tips. I don't expect much in terms of quality but have still been at least a little disappointed with more than half the stuff I've bought from them, so I appreciate it when someone points out the better products.


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## Planeman40

Black Arkansas stones are the finest grade, often used for surgical scalpels, and are the most expensive. All mine are white with a kind of milky clearness and are of a little less finer grit, but they work just fine for me. I have had mine for many years and have never had to flatten any of them. I guess if you used them every day you might eventually have to flatten for ones used on plane irons. As a home woodworker for over 50 years mine haven't had but occasional use.

Planeman


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## MrRon

I use diamond for all my sharpening. Have done so for over 20 years. I have never been able to get a sharp edge with a stone, although I have never tried a Japanese water stone. I have used the scary sharp system and use that for plane irons and chisels. Sharpening with diamond is a lot different than sharpening with a stone. Diamond cuts very quickly, so tool cutting angles can be altered very quickly if you are too aggressive with a diamond. Ceramic or natural stones are more forgiving. The one thing I don't like about natural stones is; they wear down so they are no longer flat and that is most important when you want your plane or chisel to be straight. A lot also depends on the hardness of the steel of the tool. Softer steels are best sharpened with a stone, while hard steels, like HSS requires a more aggressive medium like a diamond.


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## bbc557ci

My DMT stones arrived a little while ago. Brought the box inside and set it on the floor because I still needed to get some work finished up (my day job!!). That lasted about 5 minutes….had to open the box, which I did. Took out the new DMTs and Veritas guide, grabbed an old Stanley chisel and proceeded to work it. The chisel is old but overall the edge was in pretty good shape. Dull, but not beat up (I try and take care my stuff) Flattened the back with the course then the fine. Then on to the bevel….set the guide to 30* (real close to the existing bevel) and started with the fine (600 mesh) then on to the extra fine (1200 mesh). Chisel now has a decent edge and it took maybe 20-25 minutes. Now that I got a taste of the stones and guide the next time around should go a little quicker. There was a bit of a bur but I took care of that with some very gentle side strokes on the extra fine side. I know I need something to de-bur and or a final clean up, so I might pick up an Arkansas like Planeman40 mentions.

Overall I gotta say, I liked using the DMTs. I used pretty light pressure and they cut/worked quick. Time will tell though how well they do long term.


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## Planeman40

One simple trick in sharpening I quickly mentioned above but probably didn't emphasize enough is the following.

Always examine an edge using a MAGNIFYING LENS of some kind. I use a 2X Harbor Freight magnifying visor which works very well. Also examine under a STRONG LIGHT. Most people claiming they can't get a really sharp edge think they have sharpened enough but under close visual inspection under magnification they haven't brought the edge to a perfect point.

When examining, look at the edge END ON. Under magnification you can see if the edge is sharp or not. If the edge shows up as a thin flat line you haven't sharpened enough. When there is no flat on the edge you have reached a sharp edge. This final edge usually has "wire edge" that is a very thin strip of metal down the length of the edge that will fold back in use giving you a dull edge. Often it is so fine you can't actually see it except under higher magnification. You need to remove this wire edge by jabbing the edge into the end grain of a block of soft wood like pine or spruce a few times. After doing this, continue sharpening and polishing with your finest grit stone, then move on to stropping.

Keep at it. It will come to you with some experience.

Planeman


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## intelligen

Thanks for the updates and extra tips, guys. My EZE-Lap stones came a couple days ago and I tried them out briefly yesterday on an old plane iron. I like both, but if I had to do it over again, I'd probably get 2 double-sided stones: Coarse/Extra Fine and Fine/something else. I would recommend skipping a grit grits that you'll be using in immediate succession. That way no matter what grit you start on, you can always use 2 stones before having to flip one over.

For example, if I'm using Extra Coarse, Coarse, Fine, Extra Fine, I'd buy the EC/F and C/EF stones. Use EC, then C, then flip both over and use F, then EF.

For anyone who was wondering (I know I was), the abrasive surface is the same size on the double-sided stone as it is on the single-sided stone.


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## BJODay

I've been using water stones to sharpen and have good results. Last week I think I was too aggressive and put a belly in the fine stone. I didn't realize it until I looked at the shape of my plane irons edge. It was quite convex. I did not check the stone and it needed to be flattened.

I thought,... enough. I purchased a pair of 2 sided DMT diamond stones. I've sharped 2 plane blades and they work very well. I'll scrub them down with a scotch brite pad before putting them away. They are very clean compared to the water stones. I'd say the results are comparable.

DMT- less maintenance, cleaner work area.
Water stones-must maintain flat stones, a bit sloppy around the work area.

BJ


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## bbc557ci

Planeman40 - The finest stone I have is the DMT Fine. Can you recommend which Arkansas stone to get for a final stone? I've looked at a few on the web and not quite sure, but I think it would be either the dark or translucent. What say you??


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## Planeman40

In my opinion - and it is an opinion - for woodworking in general you only need to use a regular white Arkansas stone or, if you want, a translucent Arkansas stone. The translucent stone is a little finer than the white opaque. the black Arkansas stones are "super-fine" and to my observation are overkill for woodworking unless you are into carving with very small tools and it is probably still overkill. If I was you, I would begin with a white opaque stone and get the hang of sharpening. Remember, finish up with stropping using a compound made for stropping as the abrasive. The stropping really polishes the edge and gives it that "razor edge". Keep in mind cutting and chopping through wood is going to dull the blade over time no mater what so what you are after is an edge that does the job with ease and lasts. Finer edges can be had but dull quicker.

Planeman


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## bbc557ci

Planeman - The advice is appreciated. I have a much better idea what to look for now. I've read the black Ark stones are super hard and super fine. One site actually said they were used for surgical instruments, which would be a bit overkill.

Thanks - Bill


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## MrFid

Question for you all regarding DMT Duo-Sharp stones. Do you use them dry or wet? I have seen both ways, and have tried both ways. I'd prefer to sharpen dry since I don't have running water in my shop, but was wondering what everyone else did with diamond stones. If you do sharpen dry, how do you keep your stones clean and keep the cutting action sharp. Seems like small flakes of metal would settle into the stone reducing the cutting action of the diamond. Great thread, by the way. Lots of good info.


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## bbc557ci

MrFid - no running water in my shop either so I keep a plastic coffee container (Maxwell House ) about 1/2 full of water, along with a roll of paper towels on the bench when I sharpen. I dribble just a little water on the DMTs when I sharpen. When done, I use a semi stiff nylon brush on the surface to knock off the filings. Then take the DMTs to the kitchen and use the brush under the faucet to clean them off, then pat dry with a paper towel. I get as much of the filings off the stones as I can before heading for the kitchen though…no sense or good by letting filings go down the drain.

Not sure if the water dribble is necessary, or of any advantage. Just my way I guess ;o)

Nice sunny day out there. I'm out'a here!!


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## MagicalMichael

Apparently I'm about three years late joining this conversation. A couple of weeks ago I bought a two sided - 600/1200 - diamond stone from Lee Valley. All my prior experience has been with Arkassas oil stones, many years, free hand, but never felt very good at it. I also have a hand cranked wheel & home made rest but that seemed to do more harm than good. So after sharpening a couple of large chisels that were in rough shape, a couple of small chisels that needed moderate attention and a couple of large plane irons I have a trio of very basic questions.

First, at the risk of sounding very stupid, with oil stones I can judge the grit either by eye or by touch, but with diamond stones I need to rely on the colored dot provided by the mfg. I have been assuming that the large circle is the primary reference and the smaller inset dot is the reverse side. Using this designation the diamond stone felt slower than my old oil stone.

Second, the heavily used side of the "stone" quickly turned to orange from yellow, despite that fact that I was regularly refreshing it in a water bath & rubbing down with a tooth brush. Each time I finished I cleaned it with dr. bronners and a nail brush. I assume this discoloration has been caused by iron fillings. Is it normal or should I be concerned about it?

Finally the small chisels, 1/4 & 3/8, left four small, shallow scratches on the surface. Is this normal or should I be concerned?

The diamond stone and new veritas jig did a good job but it certainly didn't seem any faster than my oil stone. And the water actually seemed more messy than the few drops of oil I have used. Perhaps I should have replaced my medium oil stone and continued with the black one which looks brand new after 20 years of use.

Michael


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## HapHazzard

Another Johnny-come-lately here.

I just wanted to say that there are good ones and not-so-good, cheap ones. The best ones I've used are the DMT Dia-Sharp continuous bench stones. They work great, wet or dry, and last forever if you take good care of them.

Then there are the cheapies. I got a few UltraSharp stones because they were so cheap I figured I couldn't go too far wrong, and they're good for the money, but if you look at them you'll see some nasty scratches, especially on the coarse sides. What happens is that a tiny piece of the abrasive will break loose while you're sharpening and dig into the surface raising hell with the stone and scratching whatever you're sharpening. I imagine this would be less of a problem if I used them with water all the time.

I also picked up a very cheap HTS two-sided 2×6 stone that has held up rather well and is the only diamond stone that fits in my pocket, but be forewarned: a diamond stone will attack your pocket and load itself up with lint, so use a small zip-loc bag or slip cover to keep it clean if you do this.


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## MagicalMichael

I have now been using the duo sharp, two sided DMT stones for 7 months since my post to this discussion last Feb and I have come to really, really like them. In fact I have decide to give the two sided one to my son & have ordered the heavier singles. Like a lot of users I discovered that the diamond stones needed both a break in period and a different, lighter touch.

I wanted to resusitate a large, old set of Marple chisels which had been miss ground and then honed at multiple angles, so I bought a course stone to begin with. Doing this, along with my 4 planes, which I use a lot, jointer blades and a host of kitchen knifes I have given the duo sharps a pretty good work out. Over time I have refined my technique. I saw a You Tube video from Trend, the British stone mfg, which recommended oil rather than water. I tried it and found it was significantly better. The oil cut cleaner and faster and I don't have to worry about damaging either the steel substrate or my tools with the water. I bought a can of fancy honing oil but found it didn't work any better than the lamp oil I had been using on my oil stones.

Now, depending on how far I have let the edge go I begin with half a dozen strokes on either the 600 or 1200 side. That gives me a bur, which I remove and move on up. I finish with a few strokes on a hard black Arkansas stone, remove the bur and I'm ready for work.

Perhaps you can get an even sharper edge with an 8000 grit water stone,or a leather strop, but it wont hold up for more than a few swipes of hardwood before you're back to the hard, black Arkansas edge anyway.

Still learning, Michael


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## HapHazzard

Michael, here's what the good folks at DMT say about using oil on their stones: https://www.dmtsharp.com/resources/dmt-faq/#i-know-it-says-to-use-the-sharpener-dry-or-with-water-but-can-i-use-oil-anyway

Oil is great for oil stones, because they're porous. The oil soaks into the pores and provides continuous lubrication to the working surface. It also keeps the pores from filling up with debris, provided you renew it periodically.

Diamond stones have no pores, so it can't soak in. It stays on the surface, makes the stone slippery and transfers to anything that comes in contact with the it, like your workbench, hands and clothing. While it can't soak in, it does cling to the surface tenaciously, and as it becomes dirty, it becomes harder and harder to wash off. Diamonds are made of carbon. Oil is a hydrocarbon. They have a very strong affinity at the molecular level (called Van der Waals force, if you're curious) that resists any physical or chemical cleaning attempts. You can soak it as long as you like, but it won't dissolve away completely.

If you want something a little slipperier than plain water-not that it's necessary, and it might make you drop it on your foot-try adding a little detergent. I occasionally clean my Dia-Sharp stones with diluted Simple Green, and it doesn't seem to hurt them.


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## MagicalMichael

First I don't find a small squirt of oil messy. I use a small oil can and squirt a single wet spot, when done I wipe it off. Second, Trend, the British mfg of quality stones recommends oil, which makes a lot of sense because the substrate in which the diamonds are embedded is steel, which definitely does not like water. The tool itself is steel and doesn't like water. Notice how people who use water stones dry their tools and then coat them with jojoba oil.

The DMT site refers to wd40 and I would agree that is a poor choice. The viscosity of wd40 will cause the blade to ride over the diamonds. Instead use a very light oil, which is what "honing oil" is.


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## rwe2156

I'm not going to read all the posts suffice it to say it all depends on how much you sharpen.

I use a combination of diamond and water. IMO the finer water stones hone quicker than diamond.

I use mesh diamond plates which I do not recommend for the shear reason there is not as much diamond on them and they don't last as long as a solid metal diamond plate.


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## Svdharma

From my perspective as a lapidary, even high end diamond coated tools are disposable. I prefer to charge copper plates with diamond. Haven't used it for hand sharpening, but if you put a little diamond compound on a piece of copper and rub it in with something hard it will embed the diamond grit into the surface. When the diamond wears out just add more. Diamond compound is only a few cents a carat and goes a very long way.


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## Lemwise

I will always recommend Atoma diamond plates. They are the flattest, the fastest, leave the most consistent scratch pattern and are the most durable. There's nothing that can beat them in the world of diamond plates.


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