# A Heads-up for E-bay Users



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

As of June 15th, you will no longer be able to sell your tools and stuff on E-bay, without some unfortunate editing of your profile and account.

To update your details, they want you to disclose your SSI# (or #SIN in Canada). This made no sense to me, until I realized that they will disclose your seller's income to the IRS/CRA directly.

They will no longer channel your income through PayPal either. They will forward funds from your buyer directly to your registered bank account.

This may not be of any significance to random or occaisional users, but the implications could be significant if you do any kind of sales volume. In various discussion boards, there is a lot of concern over this. E-bay has made things a bit easier of late by forwarding sales taxes to the respective states, but now you cannot be assured of anonymity or the notion of flying under the radar.

I'm preparing an Excel profit/loss spreadsheet, because I'm only selling my personal possessions, but it will be difficult to state my case, if questioned.

*How will these new changes affect you?*


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

I just saw that as well when I went to sell some stuff. Guess I'll stick with CL, offerup, and Facebook market. More people are using Facebook market lately, i think PayPal is going to be in for a rude awakening when they make these changes.

I don't even mind them reporting to IRS. I just don't like people accessing my bank directly. That is the recipe for identity theft, and when something happens, you aren't protected like with a debit/credit card. No thanks, been there done that!


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

I believe June 15th is the last deadline. Myself and other folks I know who sell on ebay were forced to switch already. It seems they rolled that change out in phases. I wasn't happy about it at all but I also had no where else to turn to at the time.

What the change will drive me to do is stand up my own site similar to Don W's. I build web applications and sites for a living so I should have done it already but ebay was simply easier.

I like ebay and I like PayPal. What I don't like is ebay trying to do their own money management with my money. PayPal is essentially a bank and their primary goal is dealing with security and financial transactions. Where as eBay's primary goal is making money off of sales volumes. I'm a firm believer in the motto "stick to what you do best" and in this case eBay is taking on an aspect of the transaction that was better left to experts in that area.


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## DevinT (Mar 25, 2021)

sanssoo, do you need a hosting provider? I run a datacenter out of my house on a gigabit WAN.


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

> sanssoo, do you need a hosting provider? I run a datacenter out of my house on a gigabit WAN.
> 
> - DevinT


I most likely will. I have gigabit WAN but pretty sure Google gets angry if they find me running an ecommerce site. They don't seem to care about the rest of the crap in the basement rack like nextcloud or emby but as soon as I try to make money they get pissy.


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## metolius (May 26, 2016)

> I most likely will. I have gigabit WAN but pretty sure Google gets angry if they find me running an ecommerce site. They don t seem to care about the rest of the crap in the basement rack like nextcloud or emby but as soon as I try to make money they get pissy.
> 
> - sansoo22


I've been running on Linode for 10 years; Ive been super impressed with the uptime and VM management there.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

> I believe June 15th is the last deadline. Myself and other folks I know who sell on ebay were forced to switch already. It seems they rolled that change out in phases. I wasn t happy about it at all but I also had no where else to turn to at the time.
> 
> What the change will drive me to do is stand up my own site similar to Don W s. I build web applications and sites for a living so I should have done it already but ebay was simply easier.
> 
> ...


Hi, Sansoo!
Yup, I gave that same thought some consideration, like using 'godaddy' or similar, but the idea rapidly goes down the drain when trying to figure out the money exchange part of things. If PayPal was used, it would potentially make us vulnerable, at least in the eyes of taxation. Who can work out those details? 
The financial side of E-bay transactions has gone downhill in a handbasket, ever since Pitney Bowes muscled their way in between them and us. Also, when PayPal became an affiliate of E-bay.

I remember Ebay, in the late 1990's, having to send a check or MO, and the vendor waiting for it to clear the bank before sending you your item. The worst of times, the best of times… I wonder if some type of escrow service could fill in the gap between buyer and seller on a new platform?

Thanks, however, for the kind replies, one and all. I feel better just knowing that others are in the same boat as me. Oh, well, I guess there's always those dank, grimy weekend indoor flea markets, and yard sales AKA shoplifter's paradise.


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## drsurfrat (Aug 17, 2020)

I already have the bank account linked, but I didn't (that I know of) have to enter my SSN or other tax ID. Perhaps it is 'bundled' with my account info.
I have kept all my records including PO shipping receipts for tax purposes. Guilty until proven innocent, of course.

I also tried selling on Bonanza, but that just didn't have the audience to sell anything tool-like (e.g., 10 views in a month). I didn't want to use facebook's CanIHaveIt for their lack of privacy, but I may have to resort to that. At least I got rid of my No 7 and No 4 collections.

I would love to abandon ebay if there was anything else as an option.


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## DevinT (Mar 25, 2021)

I have a very good friend that has written software for websites to be able to take money without going through a 3rd-party clearing house like PayPal. I can ask him if he'd like to jump in on this with me and maybe help solve the issue. He runs several websites for local businesses, some small, some large. I've done some work with him and I know he'd love it if I found something that would allow us to work together more often.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> PayPal is essentially a bank and their primary goal is dealing with security and financial transactions.
> 
> - sansoo22


*Actually no, there is no FDIC protection through Paypal, so they are a big payday lender, loanshark type of arrangement. *



> I have gigabit WAN but pretty sure Google gets angry if they find me running an ecommerce site. They don t seem to care about the rest of the crap in the basement rack like nextcloud or emby but as soon as I try to make money they get pissy.
> 
> - sansoo22


*Well Larry and Sergey are on hard times. It's tough getting by on Billions of $$$$$$ so they just want to look out for their bottom line. *

Point is, a small guy trying to make a buck, has to satisfy the wallet of the little features that are used to do so. If you do set out on your own, I think that is great. Know that to drive traffic like Flea Bay does, it will cost some $$$$ and taking on banking is pretty much a flat 3% off the top no matter who ya use.

Paypal does so well because of the millions of Americans who can't go to a real bank, either because they aren't legit, or they owe some bank somewhere $$$$$$ and as soon as they show it in any bank, they stick together, and make an automatic withdrawl to satisfy their debt.

American dream is everyone is out to make a buck.

However I do feel your pain, and have wished for some time a new Flea Bay would rise up, and close those money grubbing SOBs down. Listing fee, selling fee, final value fee, gee whats left for me on that Thousand dollar sale. Sound of coins hitting the sidewalk ring out….. HUH, 16 bux…..


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## Peteybadboy (Jan 23, 2013)

So far Ebay has not asked me for my SSN, if they do , I will be done with ebay. I too did they bank account thing.

Thanks for this thread.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

> So far Ebay has not asked me for my SSN, if they do , I will be done with ebay. I too did they bank account thing.
> 
> Thanks for this thread.
> 
> - Peteybadboy


My guess is that we can continue as buyers on Ebay, but not as sellers. They did state that they would shut down any listings I had on June 15 if I didn't register my #SSN as of that date.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> So far Ebay has not asked me for my SSN, if they do , I will be done with ebay. I too did they bank account thing.
> 
> Thanks for this thread.
> 
> ...


I just finished "updating " my account. Here is what I have officially seen. It asked for last 4 digits of SSN and bank account info but it let me skip both of those. I just had to agree to all of the new terms and conditions. It then said everything will work but that I will NOT get paid until I finish entering my SSN and bank account info. BTW it doesn't want your account info, it actually wants your login credentials to your online banking account so it can login as you. Through a 3rd party called Trustly. So they and the 3rd party basically have full access to your online banking account. Yeah no thanks, already lost $1000 that way. I got it back but it was a nightmare to prove and took several weeks to get reimbursed etc.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Quote:
I just finished "updating " my account. Here is what I have officially seen. It asked for last 4 digits of SSN and bank account info but it let me skip both of those. I just had to agree to all of the new terms and conditions. It then said everything will work but that I will NOT get paid until I finish entering my SSN and bank account info.

- SMP
[/QUOTE]

*Wow, Dammit!!* They have no right to presume control over your bank accounts. Who does that?


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> *Wow, Dammit!!* They have no right to presume control over your bank accounts. Who does that?
> 
> - poopiekat


Yeah I am bummed because I have some tools, car stuff, and school textbooks to sell, and some have a better audience on eBay. BUT I have had fraud on bank accounts a few times and it is NO fun at all dealing with. The bigger the target, the more hackers try to hack into it. With this change ebay is going to be a massive target for hackers wanting to steal bank info. One nest to crack and they get Ton of eggs. And not the little script kid hackers, we're talking state sponsored hackers from China and Russia working full time.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

Just a heads up, and I will admit this happened some years ago. I was doing a lot of selling online, through both Ebay, and at that time on Yahoo as well, they used to have auctions, that were well attended.

Got a new Credit card just to use at Paypal for fees, and to keep the account. Put it on Paypal ONLY. Next day got a call from issuing banks fraud department. My info had been filched from their, get this. 8 bit encrytion, that guarded the henhouse. At that time the banking standard was 256 bit, and it very soon thereafter went to 512, then soon upward.

Point was the "safety" Paypal offered me was what 5 year old Russian kids were learning to hack on.

Paypal is NOT a bank. Don't presume it is. Flea Bay certainly isn't either, and any real bank will tell you NOT to give them sign on info, for any reason.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

Just a heads up, and I will admit this happened some years ago. I was doing a lot of selling online, through both Ebay, and at that time on Yahoo as well, they used to have auctions, that were well attended.

Got a new Credit card just to use at Paypal for fees, and to keep the account. Put it on Paypal ONLY. Next day got a call from issuing banks fraud department. My info had been filched from their, get this. 8 bit encrytion, that guarded the henhouse. At that time the banking standard was 256 bit, and it very soon thereafter went to 512, then soon upward.

Point was the "safety" Paypal offered me was what 5 year old Russian kids were learning to hack on.

Paypal is NOT a bank. Don't presume it is. Flea Bay certainly isn't either, and any real bank will tell you NOT to give them sign on info, for any reason.

While you still have an identity, RUN…....


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Haven't tried to sell anything on there in over 3 years….got tired of all the fees…..didn't leave much in profit for me.

paypal? They are still hacking a bankcard I ended 3 years ago…..different bank…..after the first try to hack it, I closed the card.

No intention of ever selling on FEEbay again…


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## drsurfrat (Aug 17, 2020)

Bandit - I'm with you, but would will you sell? PoopieKat loooves his flea markets…

Craigslist - too local for a big audience
Bonanza - no traffic to speak of
facebook CanIHaveIt - questionable privacy protection
flea markets - local only
LJ trade & swap - who looks there?


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> Bandit - I m with you, but would will you sell? PoopieKat loooves his flea markets…
> 
> Craigslist - too local for a big audience
> Bonanza - no traffic to speak of
> ...


I have had good luck selling on OfferUp. I don't like buying there because people don't delete their old listings though. You search and find year old listings.


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## bruc101 (Sep 13, 2008)

I used to have a PayPal account and finally told them to shove it, on the phone. I could have a couple of $1000 in it and all they wanted to transfer to my bank account was $500 a month max.

When I told them to shove it I had about $1500 in my PayPal account. It took me 6 months to get my money from them.

We use 2 offshore IBX data centers and pay them monthly thru the data center's Paypal. We went to Walmart and got us a prepaid Bluebird American Express card to pay the offshore accounts with and that keeps our US cards safe. We just transfer money into it from one of our bank accounts, and have only enough money it it to pay the bills with. One of our banks won't let us use our card except in the US.

Every time we use Paypal they remind me that I have an account with them and wants me to sign in. When I got my money out of Paypal I closed the account about 8 years ago. I called them one time about that and got fed a line of bs that would make a herd of bulls jealous.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> I used to have a PayPal account and finally told them to shove it


I had both E-bay and Pay Pal accounts since their initial beginnings… their free personal accounts were great and let you accept up to two credit card transactions a month for free. For selling personal stuff, it was a great setup. Then e-bay bought them and it started going down the tubes from there. They severely reduced the personal account, and really pushed hard for you to get a paid account - then e-bay started pushing as well. I haven't used either platform for years now. Most sellers will accept USPS money orders, even though they don't list it as an acceptable payment method (fear of big brother watching?).

As for the SSN requirement - I believe it is due to recent changes where they now have to report (via form 1099) any sales over $400 per year to the IRS. That limit used to be $20,000, so now it's probably more efficient to just have everyone give the info rather than filter out the big fish.

Cheers,
Brad


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

I'm grateful for all of the stories shared here. With these changes to Ebay, the problem is two-fold: finding another venue to buy and sell in, and how to safely pass money from buyer to seller.

Thanks, everyone, for your valuable input!


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

I've had some luck with local CL lately. I know I am see more types of tools on there all the time. I think the world might be growing tired of FleaBay and Paypal.


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## xedos (Apr 25, 2020)

> I already have the bank account linked, but I didn t (that I know of) have to enter my SSN or other tax ID. Perhaps it is bundled with my account info.
> I have kept all my records including PO shipping receipts for tax purposes. Guilty until proven innocent, of course.
> 
> I also tried selling on Bonanza, but that just didn t have the audience to sell anything tool-like (e.g., 10 views in a month). I didn t want to use facebook s CanIHaveIt for their lack of privacy, but I may have to resort to that. At least I got rid of my No 7 and No 4 collections.
> ...


OfferUp ?


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## drsurfrat (Aug 17, 2020)

Maybe, I just looked into it, it claims it is intended for locals (30 mile radius), but got search hits from many different states.


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## xedos (Apr 25, 2020)

> Maybe, I just looked into it, it claims it is intended for locals (30 mile radius), but got search hits from many different states.
> 
> - drsurfrat


They have an easy shipping program and some sort of payment escrow guarantee system too.


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Tax fraud has been a major issue. I suspect the same issues will eventually roll out to all on-line sellers. E-bay only wants to deal with paid e-bay sellers and the tax man wants what is due to him. If people were honest, these changes would not be necessary.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

I think that Brad nailed it regarding the need for SSN. eBay has probably been skirting the law somehow about tax reporting and the IRS probably gave them no choice but to start reporting payments. When you consider that eBay's annual revenue is over $10 billion and that is just their percentage of the total sales going through their site, there is a huge amount of unreported income that I am sure that the IRS would like to get their share of. The best way to do that is probably for eBay to act as the money handler for all transactions. I seem to recall that Etsy reports payments over $600 per year on a 1099 which would require them to get your SSN. If you are really running a business by selling on eBay, one way to avoid giving your personal SSN to eBay is to get a business EIN which is the business version of the SSN and use that. I would also set up a separate bank account just for conducting business but the bank fees may eat into your profits if you use a EIN for that account. Another downside to the EIN may be that if you are selling in other venues that do not collect and pay the sales tax for you, you may have to start remitting sales tax to your state at least for those other sales.

I am sure that eBay plans to "manage" the cash flow to their advantage as well. Companies spend a lot of time managing float to make money on cash sitting around for a few hours, or even days in the case of waiting for shipment to complete before you get paid, and with the volume that eBay does, there is a probably big profit potential for them. Since Paypal is no longer owned by eBay, this get that cash flow back into their control.


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## stevejack (Apr 5, 2020)

WOW How passed the LAW to erase the 4th amendment? I dont recall hearingseeing that?


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## stevejack (Apr 5, 2020)

WOW next thing you know, the IRS will be able to (WANT) to download everyones Bank Account INFO. I am sure that's fiction. That could never happen here!


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## stevejack (Apr 5, 2020)

YES I know the poor IRS getting cheated out of so much money. HUH What rights do you think we need to give up to make the IRS happy. And speaking of TAXES Why does anyone in the US have to pay them anyways! The U.S. Govenrment isn't going to spend one less dime because NO ONE paid their taxes. If the US Gov didn't get ONE SINGLE dime of taxes for the next 20 years it would not matter a damn. They are still going to spend. SO is that's true then why does anyone have to pay their extortion money (TAXES) At this point whats the difference between 32 TRILLION in the red and 100 Trillion or a quadrillion in the red. Speaking of TAX cheats I wonder how much in Corp Income TAXES AMAZON pays?.... ZIP! 


> Tax fraud has been a major issue. I suspect the same issues will eventually roll out to all on-line sellers. E-bay only wants to deal with paid e-bay sellers and the tax man wants what is due to him. If people were honest, these changes would not be necessary.
> 
> - tvrgeek


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

I can only hope that the IRS can see the difference between Power Sellers, and guys like me who only want to liquidate their personal possessions. Seriously, if I sell a $50 plane, is that $50 considered income? I've only converted the value of an asset from a lump of iron to cash money of equivalent value. No profit or loss has taken place.

It scares me that the tools and antiques I've accrued over the last 40 years is now considered a liability. Yikes, I'm glad I no longer own collector cars or other high-ticket items!


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

You "only" have to pay taxes on it if you sell items from your collection for more than you paid for them. It is considered a capital gain. Sorry but profit is considered income and there is really no distinction between selling a hand plane for $50 more than you paid for it and a rare work of art that you sold for $10k more. You can always gift them to a family member for example and as long they are valued at less than $15k/year, it is not taxable and that value becomes their basis for selling. Anyone who inherits your collection will not pay taxes on the gains either because the value at the time of inheritance becomes their cost basis.

Only the other hand, many of the people selling on eBay are really operating like a business. They buy stuff cheap and flip it or perhaps polish it up and sell it for more than they paid for it. Even if you sell enough on eBay that they send you a 1099, you only have to pay taxes on it if there was a net profit. A good basic overview can be seen here. So if you are buying and selling to fund your tool habit, keep good records of your expenses to acquire, including mileage to go rust hunting and any incidental expenses and supplies you may use to refurbish and prepare for reselling.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

Nathan is correct (of course 8^). Only the profit is subject to tax. A good reason to keep receipts should the tax man commeth.

You can bequeath much more than the 15k to family members in one go as part of an estate. You just need to file a form 709 (good for $11+ million per individual) so the IRS can keep track of the accumulating value of these "gifts" so when you do kick the bucket, they can see if the recipient has received more than the tax free amount allowed in an estate transfer.


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

Have sold a couple things in fleabay, and the entire process scared me. 
As Steven noted, when they dropped the 'couple of personal sales a year' type account, and forced everyone to behave like a commercial seller; I stopped being a seller. 
Every time I consider selling stuff on fleabay, the fees remind me why I don't do it.

My compliments to anyone who sells on fleabay, and continues after these latest changes!

FWIW - Trustly is embedded as official ACH transfer authority in some online shopping cart software. Most often see it as option in EU sites, that offer no surcharge for direct bank payment .vs. surcharge for using debit/credit card. ACH transfers do not process via credit processors, and have reduced cost as money transfer is same day with zero chance of charge back. The difference in cost is significant. ACH transfers cost pennies, credit processors charge many dollars per transaction as a percentage of sale price.

As others have mentioned, if the seller or web site has poor security, then your account information can be exposed regardless of how money transfers.

IMHO - the BIG issue is credit companies have fraud protection, and insurance to protect you from fraudulent charges. ACH transfers have only fraud protection provided by bank and selling site. IE. Your privacy and personal finances are much more expose, when things go wrong. (like that never happens?)

+1 The sudden need for validation is not entirely fleabay fault. The issue is global banking regulations, that requires anyone with direct deposits over $400 per year to bank account to be verified via SSN or EIN, IE to prove you are a tax payer to the gubermint.

In fact, Google and Apple require your bank information and same personal validation for Apple/Google Payments via ACH transfers much the same way as Trustly. If your bank offers money transfers via ZellePay, it is same thing; low cost personal ACH transfer system.

Am sure true business accounts on Paypal will like the change, as it should reduce the money transfer fees when people use ACH or cash transfers? Will be interesting to see how this changes Paypal integration, as Trustly is competition?

Cheers!


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

> ... BTW it doesn't want your account info, *it actually wants your login credentials to your online banking account so it can login as you*. Through a 3rd party called Trustly. So they and the 3rd party basically have full access to your online banking account. Yeah no thanks, already lost $1000 that way. I got it back but it was a nightmare to prove and took several weeks to get reimbursed etc.
> 
> - SMP


Is the statement in bold correct? I find it hard to believe that eBay would ask for sign-in information. Routing and account number is all that they need to deposit money into your account. If you really were asked for you sign-on credentials, make sure that you weren't redirected to a scam site. Your instinct to never give any sign-on information to anyone, anywhere, anytime is spot on.

BTW, Paypal has an FDIC insured option. I think that it is known as a PayPal Cash Plus account and can be setup for direct deposits using routing and account number. I think that you can get a debit card that you can use to spend any money in the account as well. Other than that, I do not know anything else about it but that might be an option for anyone who wants to stick with using Paypal and may help avoid connecting your back account to eBay.


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## WalkerR (Feb 8, 2017)

I was done with ebay when they asked for bank account info, and now they want SSN# too? This could be the end of ebay. It's already becoming nothing but copy-cat listing from Alibaba. As they push out more non-commercial sellers it's just gonna get worse.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> Is the statement in bold correct? I find it hard to believe that eBay would ask for sign-in information. Routing and account number is all that they need to deposit money into your account. If you really were asked for you sign-on credentials, make sure that you weren t redirected to a scam site. Your instinct to never give any sign-on information to anyone, anywhere, anytime is spot on.
> 
> - Lazyman


Yes. When you go to add bank account info it asks you to choose your bank in a little pop up window. Once you select which bank it then asks you to enter login and password to your online account. At the bottom it says something like "powered by Trustly", which it looks like CaptainKlutz is familiar with . I had never heard of it, and sounds like the least trustworthy thing out there with that name. Me thinks they doth protest too much.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Ah, I missed that. Trustly has been around for a while. I have never used it but it does have a good reputation and it fairly widely used. It seems like it would only be a benefit if the person buying is using it to pay so you save on credit card or PayPal fees. If the goal is to enable buyers to pay using Trustly, there is a big potential for savings to the seller. Of course, that probably just means that eBay will raise their fees to make up the difference. The downside as a buyer is that you will lose the protection of the credit card for disputes. Not sure what sort of dispute resolution process Trustly has but I seem to recall that they expect all disputes to be settled between the buyer and seller which means that you have to rely on eBay. That was bad enough in the early days of eBay and PayPal that to this day I won't buy anything on eBay without using a credit card.

If I were an eBay seller, I would definitely see if the Paypal Cash Plus account would work at least until I get some confidence in the new process. At a minimum, I would set up a separate account and transfer most of the proceeds out of it as soon as they are deposited.


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

You can open a bank account at something like a credit union that has no fees. Give Ebay access to that, but keep only a small amount of money in it. Then arrange external transfer to and from that account to your regular bank account.

When Ebay pays you, they deposit into that account, and then you transfer it to your "real" account. You can do that with an app or a web page.

As for the SSN, I'd say your going to have to give it up for most of these kinds of accounts within the next year or two.


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## DevinT (Mar 25, 2021)

I would think it would be safer to register a DBA Sole Prop in your own name (avoiding fictitious business statement and answer period) and then use the EIN instead of SSN. No?

Less than $30 at your city town hall and less than 30 days to get an EIN.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> WOW How passed the LAW to erase the 4th amendment? I dont recall hearingseeing that?
> 
> - stevejack


Well to start with Interpretation of the 4th's components in regard to each piece can be like juggling donkeys. Who's deciding, and what's the topic of discussion, makes this one of our more flexible freedoms. IOW you could watch a really artful lawyer carve up a first year prosecutor on what some cop thought was an ironclad case. No erasure done, just justice isn't always just, and never has been equal. Who says $$$$$ can't buy happiness.

The Constitution, through the Fourth Amendment, protects people from unreasonable searches and seizures by the government. The Fourth Amendment, however, is not a guarantee against all searches and seizures, but only those that are deemed unreasonable under the law.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> I would think it would be safer to register a DBA Sole Prop in your own name (avoiding fictitious business statement and answer period) and then use the EIN instead of SSN. No?
> 
> Less than $30 at your city town hall and less than 30 days to get an EIN.
> 
> - DevinT


Not to stomp all over SJ's freedoms, but has it been positively decided that FleaBay will accept an EIN? Or are they just so big, and full of themselves, after years of pushing around small biz peeps, that they will only accept a SSN, and F yer freedoms.


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

EIN's look just like SSNs, I believe.


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## Igloo (Jun 8, 2021)

Hello ! I can help clear up all the wrong information & incorrect assumptions. Long time seller on eBay. Real easy to resolve concerns listed. #1 - bank account - set up separate bank account for dealing with eBay, eBay needs bank account to deposit your $ into. No worries needed, your other account(s) are not part of the process. 
Advantages I find selling on eBay - 1) reaching a huge # of people. 2) Protection from criminals who try to scam & extort. Have had eBay protect from fraud scammer chargebacks. 
I will be glad to help people here who have concerns. Does eBay charge fees ? Of course - but only if you sell something. Storefront physical store charges big monthly, no matter if you sell or not.

eBay's newer ''managed payment'' system is just fine & big improvement over old system. In the past, we had some business lost from buyers who wanted to use credit cards but did not have/want PayPal account - now all are accepted. Every similar site out there will be requiring SSN/EIN = they have to as none of them want to be responsible for your possible tax liability. IF you're selling old tools, you have zero to be concerned about.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

I thought I'd revive this thread to see what new perspectives have taken place by those negatively affected by new Ebay changes.

The threshhold for T-1099 liability will go from $20,000 for revenue reporting to $600 in 2022!! Not worth it.

A vintage tools-only sales site (or auction site) with the capacity to do Credit Card payments by a third party might work, but I anticipate that that would be the vulnerable issue.

How many people would actually be on board if such a site was launched?

I still have approximately 100 transitionals and 200 iron planes that I've accrued over the years with the plan to refurbish them and sell them on Ebay, now that I'm retired. Not gonna happen now. I'll just turn them over as projects or basic users, and move on to some other lucrative endeavors, but* crap*, this was my business plan.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

I suspect that the IRS is cracking down on eBay just like other online selling sites (Etsy for example). The $600 1099 rule isn't something new, I think that the IRS just finally forced eBay to comply with the reporting rules…or their internal lawyers did anyway. Any new site would probably have to comply with the same rules, at least eventually. Death and taxes are the only sure things in life.

BTW, my SIL told me that some artist friends of hers that have been using Venmo to receive payment when selling their artwork had their money frozen until they setup a business account with them. Since the sales were occurring in person, they didn't need the buyers protection and this avoided the Paypal fees. The story is that if Venmo starts seeing regular transactions with random people, they assume you are running a business and they require you to pay their business and transaction fees to continue using their service.


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## DevinT (Mar 25, 2021)

I see a lot of tool sales moving to Etsy of all places.

I have found for example 3-arm Kimberly patent plow plane on Etsy that formerly I only found on Jim Bodes-that I never see on eBay, indicating to me Etsy is the place to sell vintage tools on now.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

TY, Nathan and Devin!!

I'll have to check out Venmo, and find out whether they expect my personal info so they can report my selling activities.

I haven't been on Etsy in a while, mostly because the type of planes I see there are Type #20, with an $80 price tag. The one or two purchases I made there, years ago, was via Paypal with no problems..at that time. I should re-register and check it out, I've got some unusual off-the-wall planes that I could never hope to sell at a yard sale!
Thanks, All!!


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

The problem with Venmo is that online buyers will not want to use it because they do not do provide any sort of recourse if the item is not received or in the condition it was advertised. Note that Venmo is owned by Paypal. Unless you setup to take credit cards directly or use Paypal it will be difficult to get online buyers. One other payment option that I have used is Zelle, but only for in-person sales. It is a little like Venmo in that there is no buyer protection. The good thing is that it works directly from you bank's website or mobile app so there is no middle man and the money is basically an electronic transfer from the buyer's bank account to yours.

Frankly, if I was going to be unloading a bunch vintage planes a couple at a time, I would probably try the Can I Have It Auction Facebook group. I have bid on several things but never won any auctions. It is pretty informal in that you bid by simply posting your bid in the forum. It is more like a traditional auction with no automatic bidding. You have to check in on it to see if you are outbid or won. I usually just post how much I am willing to pay rather than checking in from time to time and placing a higher bid but I have come back and placed another bid too. After the auction ends (10pm ET Sunday) any transactions are between you and whoever won the auction. If you want to accept payment with something other than Paypal, you simply put that in the description when you post the item up for Auction. Most people say something like add 3% if you want to pay with something other than PayPal Friends and Family. Note that you can also post items with a buy it now price if you don't want to risk that no one will bid up your items.

I know that some are worried about privacy issues on Facebook but if you don't post any personal information out there I would not worry about it. So if you just use it to buy and sell vintage tools, there is very little to worry about. Facebook Marketplace is another venue you can use to sell that has no fees. FB also has a way to pay someone (t is call Facebook Pay) but have not looked at it yet.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

I'm usually moving something big enough that it wouldn't make sense to not have it be an in-person transaction. More than anything, I'm buying stuff from FB marketplace despite the fact I don't have a FB account. I use my wife's with the agreement I won't get on the HOA page and stir the pot. I like that I can select the "Delivery method" but far preferred when it defaulted to local pickup instead of having the vast majority of listed from who knows where. I don't care who the seller is other than they have to be presumably legit given their name is tied to the listing. I have quite a bit I need to sell but the price point is low enough for the very high shipping that would be required, it just doesn't make sense to attempt to market it to people who can't come get it. CL is all but dead around hear and despite having over 100 alerts for various things I'm looking for, it's always either crap or a scam. I'm literally deleting 30-60 email a day, mostly repeat stuff, bigger stuff (like an 18'-20' boat) with a narrow price filter is a scam over 99% of the time.

I had an Ebay and a PayPal account long ago, before they merged and for shortly after. I never did big volume sales but probably sold something every week or two, when I saw I had a certain amount in my PayPal account, I would either spend it on something bought on Ebay or transfer it into a burner bank account (I didn't trust PayPal even 15 years ago). I only got burned once and it was for less than $200 (I think) but I stated my case and they wouldn't budge so I bid them adieu and don't miss it a bit.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

It is hard to sell anything fairly expensive on CL anymore. Within minutes of posting, the scam bots send us messages, usually in broken English, saying that they want to buy and trying one of several recurring scams. Usually involves them arranging to have it picked up after they mail a "certified check". One time I gave the address of the police station to mail the check and for pickup.

FB Marketplace changed their search engine last year or so that even though you check the local pickup only option, it shows you hits from all over. Why the heck would you want to see garage sales 1000 miles away. After the search, you have to go in and change it back to local pickup to see only local. Even then it will still put some listings outside your area.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

I used to get the CL scam crap all the time, it took diligence to find a genuine buyer. I typically used the address and phone number for the closest FBI fraud desk. The last stuff I sold in the thousands of dollars range was my boat, minivan, 12 jointer & 24" planer to facilitate moving south, over 90% of respondents were scam bots.

I don't mind the FB search change except for the default, that's a pain. That I can search a local pick up radius of 500 miles is at least fun to shop for some obscure stuff I'm unlikely to find anywhere else.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> One time I gave the address of the police station to mail the check and for pickup.
> - Lazyman


I played one of those scammers once and had them send the check to the Check Fraud division of the State Attorneys Office. I have a connection there, and sure enough, they FedEx'd a bogus check the next day. I played them a bit more and instead of wiring the excess money via Western Union like they asked, I told them I sent a USPS Postal Money Order to the address they had listed. They went absolutely nuts and begged me to stop the check and do the WU thing like they had asked. So I told them I would need some cash to pay for the stop payment. Stupid idiots FedEx'd me $10 (in cash), again, to the Check Fraud division! All of their future attempts to contact me after that resulted in an "unknown user" error 

Cheers,
Brad


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks again, everyone, for the thoughtful replies and constructive suggestions to get past this unfortunate hurdle.

A lot of sellers are posting their disturbing experiences of late on YouTube, mostly all of them giving up on their use of Feebay. Etsy too, in my search of videos, has lots of former sellers complaining of harsh or unwarranted treatment, with the disturbing angle of competitive sellers filing phony complaints against them, just to increase their own domination of a specific product group. Sellers with perfect ratings sometimes get their entire account suspended or terminated, so it too is a battlefield.

In retrospect, for me it is the loss of one of our individual liberties, to sell our old stuff without worries about the tax man wringing us for their share of the meager revenue we collect. I can tolerate the fees, but I barely make enough to break even as it is.

Knowing that I'm not alone on this makes me feel better, for sure!! Thx all!


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Don't worry, before long "You Will Own Nothing and be Happy"


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

> Don t worry, before long "You Will Own Nothing and be Happy"
> 
> - bigblockyeti


Ohhh, god, the first time I read that, from the World Economic Forum, it sent a chill through me that continues to this day. We'll even have to rent the clothes on our back, if we let them have their way.
It has happened before….when Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia were occupied by the Soviets, they sent auditors to every household, taking careful inventory of any assets the homeowner had, for eventual confiscation as needed.


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## JRsgarage (Jan 2, 2017)

I don't think it is so much the e-commerce causing the headache but our federal government. They are requiring all companies involved in monetary transactions to report anyone that receives over $600 in transaction in the given tax season. 
We get taxed when we make money, taxed when we spend money, recurring taxes on autos, houses..etc.

So now we can buy a sofa with money we've paid taxes on to pay sales tax on the purchase. And, when we go to sell that sofa, we could get taxed again! obidenomics.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

> I don t think it is so much the e-commerce causing the headache but our federal government.
> 
> - JRsgarage


I don't think it's our federal government, the same way I don't *think* 2+2 = 4


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

To be fair, sales tax is imposed by state and local governments. Federal dips into your pocket only on the front end. State gets it coming and going (depending on where you live of course).


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Going you can at least (sort of) control. In OH, we didn't have personal property tax on vehicles but you pay full local sales tax on something when you buy it, in SC we do have property tax but you can elect to drive something less valuable should you choose. The software establishing these values is slightly flawed in that many older cars that could be worth a boat load are taxed very low.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

To PKs point though, I find it ridiculous that I go to work, earn money which is taxed before I get it. Then I can take some of what's left if I choose and go buy a handplane at an antique store and pay a little more tax for spending the money that was already taxed. Then a few years later, if I want to sell that same plane, which I already payed tax on once, I have to pay more tax because that is considered income. That's like saying if I go spend $50 on food, then sell that food to someone later for $30 that I made $30.


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## DavePolaschek (Oct 21, 2016)

You don't have to take it as I come if you can show how much you paid for it. Just like any business, you get to take your expenses off the top. Only problem is, you've got to do the record keeping, and most folks don't.

Ain't sayin' it's right, but the rules aren't *that* complicated.

I've been thinking about what to do if I start selling stuff I've made. Kinda decided that I'm probably just going to donate 100% of the profits to the local fire department. They can't tax me on it if I give every bit of it away.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Like my dad always said, having taxable income is a terrible problem to have.

Dave's got it right. Keep track of what you spend to acquire your stuff so that you can subtract that from the income later. If happen to sell $50 worth for $30, that $20 loss will lower your other taxable income. So create that spreadsheet now while you still remember what you paid for everything. Note that eBay and Paypal fees to sell are also deductible expenses so don't forget those either.

BTW, whatever you do, never ever tell the IRS that buying and selling hand planes or anything else you sell is a hobby. If they think that your income is just a hobby, they may disallow any expenses against that income.


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## kdeboy (Feb 22, 2016)

IRS is requiring Venmo and CashApp to report transactions over $600 as well. The greed of politicians gets stronger every year it seems. Unless you're a rich corporate donor, then you can just off shore everything and pay zero taxes.



> TY, Nathan and Devin!!
> 
> I ll have to check out Venmo, and find out whether they expect my personal info so they can report my selling activities.
> 
> ...


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## MikeB_UK (Jul 27, 2015)

> BTW, whatever you do, never ever tell the IRS that buying and selling hand planes or anything else you sell is a hobby. If they think that your income is just a hobby, they may disallow any expenses against that income.
> 
> - Lazyman


I thought some states required a business licence and insurance if you treat it as a business instead of a hobby?

Can't remember where i read that though, we have a few more, err, grey areas over here.


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## DavePolaschek (Oct 21, 2016)

> I thought some states required a business licence and insurance if you treat it as a business instead of a hobby?


Some do, Mike. New Mexico has a GST (goods and services tax), much like a VAT. Word on the street is that using my plan to donate all my proceeds might mean I can avoid charging the GST when I sell things (and then sending the proceeds to the state), but I'm expecting that when I check with an attorney, I'll find that I need to collect the GST and send a portion on to the state if I sell anything. Which might mean I don't sell a damn thing and either give stuff away or toss it in the fireplace if the accumulation gets problematical.

One of the good things about selling on Etsy is that they reportedly handle the GST collection and submission to the state for you, removing one of the headaches.

Edited to add: if we lived within the city limits of Santa Fe, I'm pretty sure I would need a business license to sell items I make. But we live outside city limits, so that's something…


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

It's been *my* personal experience that the people that complain the most about taxes are usually the first to tell grieving families of dead soldiers that "freedom isn't free."



> ... but* crap*, this was my business plan.
> 
> - poopiekat


Is this sarcastic? Or were you actually planning on earning an income from this without paying income taxes?

I'm one of those weird people that think paying taxes (and jury duty) are part of being a patriotic citizen. My country asks little else of me, and I'm very happy to live here.

Granted, I don't pay more taxes than legally required, just like I wouldn't pay more for a *poopiekat* plane than the price we agree on.

Now, what the government decides to spend that money on *is* a legitimate concern worth debate.


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## woodchucker1 (Aug 3, 2021)

Greed & Averase ! Make a buck, make a buck, is all they care about ! I refuse to give any bank account info to anyone. Especially SS #s. I only buy with a low amount free gift card from my bank. I just buy it loaded for $200.00 a pop. That way if it gets hacked all they can get is the balance of my gift card. My account stays safe that way. Thieves should be jailed or deported to Siberia ! There is a cool guy on ebay who is hacking the hackers, He deleats their files, gets their photos and finds their locations. I believe his name is "Perogi ". Check him out, he is great at what he does.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

> Now, what the government decides to spend that money on *is* a legitimate concern worth debate.
> 
> - Tony1212


This lack of accountability is what I suspect bothers most, it certainly does me! Not approving of waste can be solved by a reduction in resources fueling said waste, instead we're headed the other way and accelerating.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

I am in the same camp as Tony when it comes to taxes. Can't have a strong military, roads, sanitation, etc. without the money to pay for it. Don't like paying the tax bill any more than any other bill but it is a necessary evil. Render onto Caesar…

Mike, It usually depends upon whether you are a casual seller or are operating like a business and need to start collecting sales tax, but it probably varies by state. As long as the state is getting their share of the sales tax revenue through Etsy for example, a license (or sales tax permit) is likely not required but if you are selling directly too, you probably need one. An occasional garage sale for example isn't usually considered taxable sales and because most garage sale items are usually sold for less than you originally paid for them, the IRS shouldn't care either. When a tax auditor might consider what you are doing as operating a business (buying, refurbishing and reselling hand planes for example), is when you would need to setup as one and if you paying income taxes on regular sales to the IRS, I would guess that the state would also think you are operating as a business.

Since we are on the topic of sales taxes, one of the problems with setting up your own online web store is determining when and how much sales tax to collect. Most states only require you to collect if you have a physical presence in those states. Figuring out how much tax to collect (the buyer is actually considered to be paying the sales tax) is a pain because even within your own state, the rate charged for local sales taxes varies by the address. Most businesses, online or otherwise, subscribe to services that keep track of tax rates so this is were it can be advantageous to let a service like Etsy do that for you. That is actually part of what the selling fee covers. While you may not have had to collect and remit sales taxes for sales outside your state, most states legally require the buyer to remit the sales tax owed when they purchase from out of state. Since most buyers do not, states have pushed for the large selling platforms to do it for you and your buyer, in effect, leveling the playing field while keeping buyers from evading taxes owed-even though most do not even realize that they are supposed to pay them themselves.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

> It s been *my* personal experience that the people that complain the most about taxes are usually the first to tell grieving families of dead soldiers that "freedom isn t free."
> 
> ... but* crap*, this was my business plan.
> 
> ...


We're getting wayyy off track here. It's not about the payment of taxes, but eBay's demand that I surrender my bank info and SSI# if I want to continue selling there. Re-read the first post.
Should I mention the donations I've made of tools, lumber and other materiel that I've donated to local civic groups, charities and H4H, without any expectation of benefit to myself?


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

Yes PK, you certainly should when it comes tax time ;-) At least here in the states. All of that is deductible.


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

> It s been *my* personal experience that the people that complain the most about taxes are usually the first to tell grieving families of dead soldiers that "freedom isn t free."
> 
> ... but* crap*, this was my business plan.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry that I was self-righteous in that post, but thread was already heading into the "taxes suck" territory and that has always been a thorn in my side.

But at this point, there is no way around divulging PPI when trying to make money on the internet. You may be able to find smaller sites that avoid the government's notice, but then your customer base is going to be very limited. Or if that site gets big enough, then it will be forced to comply with the SSN and bank info.

As it stands, Ebay and PayPal have been forced to update their security over the years and are probably some of the most secure websites right now. Not 100% secure, but neither is your bank.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

I knew that my concern over entrusting my bank details and SSI# would get conflated with a presumption of tax avoidance. Most threads, here and elsewhere, tend to drift into unrelated side discussions, I know that.

This Ebay issue in general was one I believed to be of interest to past, present and future participants on the site. We, as tool collectors will have to reckon with fewer listings to pick from, as Ebay tries to become another Amazon who favors the big-volume mega-sellers. Yeah, it's not just the tax thing.

Thanks, everyone, for your thoughtful replies! Over and out.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

PPK, do you live in Canada? Just wondering if eBay.ca was implementing the same rules as in the US? I seem to recall that eBay doesn't send 1099s but maybe they are started to send the Canadian equivalent?


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## DavePolaschek (Oct 21, 2016)

The infrastructure bill that passed fairly recently has the changes that hit eBay US. Anything over $600 has to be reported as of the first of this year, Nathan. Wasn't mentioned much, but it was part of that bill.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

That's odd Dave, because my daughter's business has been getting 1099s for $600 and up for a couple of years and I could have sworn that when I was helping her with taxes last year that I read that she would have been required to send them to any person or business that she paid $600 or more (though she didn't have even that high to deal with).


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

> PPK, do you live in Canada? Just wondering if eBay.ca was implementing the same rules as in the US? I seem to recall that eBay doesn t send 1099s but maybe they are started to send the Canadian equivalent?
> 
> - Lazyman


It's complicated, Nathan!

I had a solid history of selling since 1998-2001 and brought my account across the border 20 years ago, but tapered off the selling 'til this year. So this will be a different experience this time around.
I could write a book on the compliance issues, treaty issues, affidavits of foreign assets, and a maelstrom of other issues related to staying within the law for tax requirements.
You are correct, Nathan, I'm waiting for this year's tax info to see what reporting and what forms I'll need for 2021 reporting.


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## Rocket62 (Oct 9, 2017)

This is a real shame. I've been an eBay seller since 1999 and have stuck with PayPal for just about as long. The new structure and regs are unacceptable to me so I have transitioned to Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace only. I tried t letting Marketplace handle the shipping once and I hated it so I handle the transactions/shipping myself. I fount PirateShip USPS works well for me and I get a discount relative to using USPS directly


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## MakeThings (Jul 26, 2019)

> sanssoo, do you need a hosting provider? I run a datacenter out of my house on a gigabit WAN.
> 
> - DevinT


We live 30 minutes from two different towns, in opposite directions. Just found out we'll be able to get a gigabit up/down out here. So excited.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

I have read all of these post but I figured out why they want your SSN. Starting this year any money changing hands on ebay, venmo etc. that is over $600 for the entire year will receive and need to file a form 1099-K. This is for anything that falls under the heading of "good and services" so it will make a difference on how a funds transfer is labeled. Welcome to the new and improved IRS.


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