# Why does Laguna Tools have so many unhappy customers ?



## MonteCristo (May 29, 2012)

I have used a question to title this post, but I am confident that I already know the answer. For those who just want the punchline, the answer is "It ciomes right from the very top". I will elaborate on why I am sure that this is so below for those who are interested.

Some may have already looked at how many posts I have made and noticed that I am new to LJs. I would, nonetheless, ask everyone to judge this post on its own merits. If anyone is looking for another rant, sorry, this will not be a rant.

I joined LJs recently after seeing that there were quite a few posts that were very critical of Laguna Tools Customer Service. I was surprised to see these, as from what I can make out, Laguna Tools goes to considerable effort to suppress this sort of thing. I know this from personal experience. I suspect the international scope of LJs has helped here.

I dealt with Laguna Tools for a number of years. It started with me buying a ResawKing blade after being frustrated with poor quality carbon blades. Then I saw Torben Helshoj's folksy videos. videos that did a ggod job of highlighting some of their bandsaw's superior features. I ended up buying an LT24 (bandsaw) and a TSS (table saw with a built-in slider). Those deals went fine but things started to go off the rails when I bought accessories. Mostly just slow service at first, but then I bought a driftmaster bandsaw fence and had to wait 6 months for it to arrive. They had my money but I had no product. Worse still, Laguna repeatedly promised that it was on its way.

As i mentioned in a reply to another post here on LJs, you can see the reminents of a post I made on a Canadian forum by GOOGLEing "Laguna Tools - good tools, bad service". What you won't find is basically the same post that was also put on what I believe is the largest woodworker's forum based in the USA. That copy was wiped clean from that forum when the forum's owner caved to pressure from Laguna Tools, one of its advertisers.

The post in question was in response to an outrageous incident whereby I was shipped a damaged TSS accessory (sliding table support arm) with no assembly instructions or documentation of any kind. Laguna claimed that this swing arm would bolt right on to my TSS. Turns out it was designed for their panel saw, not the TSS, and mounting it was no simple matter. When I complained about the lack of instructions and the fact the swing arm / TSS connection was not made clear, Laguna's CS guy was totally unrepentant. I lost over a day's work and his response was "well, you got it on in the end, didn't you ?"

The above incident prompted me to join a couple of forums to get the word out. This action led to a phone call from Catherine Helshoj, who, as I understand it, runs the business end of things at Laguna Tools. I told her what the situation was and that one of her employees had been aggresive, abusive, combative, you name it when I had complained about the swing arm situation. To my great surprise, Catherine dismissed my concerns about this employee and said "He's an excellent employee . . ." She was not sympathetic at all to my plight or concerned about her employee's behaviour.

The next thing I knew my account on that big USA based forum was blocked and my Laguna posts were wiped off the record. Coincidence - not likely.

Some will likely be thinking "this guy ranted when he complained to Laguna . . .", Well, I didn't and the large number of other complaints about Laguna's CS should help to convince a reasonable person that I am very likely telling the truth. I think that's why my post disappeared.

OK, it's time again for the punchline. Laguna Tools has had a lot of CS issues for such a small company. In the past they have claimed to have addressed this, fired the odd rogue employee, whatever. But, it is clear to me that these employees are essentially just following the example set for them. They are being told to play hardball whenever costly misqueues occur. IMHO it should be pretty evident that things won't change at Laguna until its top brass change. Given that it's a private company, how likely is that ?


----------



## Nicky (Mar 13, 2007)

Thank you for the post, this was an interesting read, and not unlike many others I have read. Before I purchase new equipment I do as much research as I can. If I read through 10 reviews and 1 was negative I may discount the negative review as the odd-ball.

Same theme about this company I've heard for years, well-engineered equipment, and poor customer service.

If Laguna is listening, you've lost a sale because of negative reviews. The only way to turn this around is to delight your customers.


----------



## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Oh well….Ya pays your money and ya takes your chances. Walk with your pocket book.
It is not just with Laguna (though I have no experience with them). That's why I choose to buy face-to-face whenever possible. That being said, I have never had a bad experience when dealing with Grizzly. There are a bunch of green machines in my shop for that very reason.
I choose to buy tooling that will accomplish the basic tasks, not that which will supposedly last forever. Hey! I'm not gonna last forever, and the tools will be sold for pennies on the dollar anyway.
Dang! That just made me feel better.
Bill


----------



## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

Laguna tools look so shiny and nice, but I've never heard anything but negative comments about their CS. As well, I have also read in a number of places concerns about their QC. I'd never buy Laguna for these reasons. I have looked a number of times at their jointers as I'd like to upgrade my 6", but I refuse to give a company my money if they will not stand behind their products. I have mostly General Int. machinery (bandsaw/TS/DC/jointer/drillpress); never had to test their CS because I've never had a problem with anything. Also own a Sawstop TS and a Clearvue cyclone DC; had a few small issues with their products but the CS was excellent


----------



## MoPower (Feb 6, 2009)

I do not have any Laguna tools only because I was aware of the CS issues by friends that do. I have used the tools and liked them. 
But, based on what I have seen Laguna's CS is like a lottery, you may be the one in a million customer they treat like gold, they make you feel like you own the company and give you anything you want. But it is 180 degrees out for all the other customers.

But they do have some nice tools.


----------



## TedW (May 6, 2012)

I think Laguna should make this right. After all, it's in their best interest. What they should do is send a bunch of free tools to somebody who has never before purchased Laguna tools, or used them for that matter. Then when that person is delighted about getting a bunch of free Laguna tools, they should consider that not quite enough and send him all the accessories for all the tools, which also will be free. Now mind you, I have never purchased, owned or used a Laguna tool, and with my limited shop space, it would be a bit inconvenient to house all these free Laguna tools, but in the spirit of making things right, I think I might be willing to take them up on their offer of free tools. And I would promise to never complain about their customer service, no matter how bad it may be.


----------



## MonteCristo (May 29, 2012)

When I first put up this post, I was a little freaked that no one commented. I could see that Laguna was not suceeding at muzzling disent (sp?) here as it does with great success on that "other forum" I alluded to (hats off to LJs !) but I was surprised that people perhaps seemed indifferent. Laguna is an active advertiser on LJs and is clearly trying to convince woodworkers to buy their stuff.

Also, it has kinda disappointed me that some who have not been jerked around by Laguna are so indifferent to those that have, but of course I am a Laguna victim. No wonder companies like Laguna stay in business way longer than they should.

I hope Laguna reads all these posts, especially the comment Bill White makes above. Some of us who are perhaps more idealistic (or picky or what ?) end up spending a lot of coin at places like Laguna. So when they stab you in the back on your way out the door, it hurts even more and sort of motivates a guy to get the word out . . .


----------



## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

I have also read many intensely negative from Laguna customers. Every manufacturer releases some defective products on occasion so I don't generally think twice about the occasional gripe, but the sheer numbers I've read pertaining to Laguna are surprising…I don't have data, but I would guess that Laguna sells far fewer tools than Grizzly, Delta, Jet, or PM, yet the numbers are disproportionately high. These are often more than just the run of the mill post from a disappointed customer who's new tool didn't work as advertised. I've noticed several that are intensely angry. The high numbers and the level of hostility have always made me wondered what's really going on behind the scenes. Thanks for the insights MC.


----------



## paratrooper34 (Apr 27, 2010)

This post is one of the main reasons why I enjoy this site.

I am looking at purchasing a bandsaw soon. I read about Laguna's in a couple of magazines and considered purchasing their bandsaw. But guess what? I damn sure won't now. I figure if you spend a pretty good chunk of change, you are owed some customer service. If Laguna doesn't give a rat's behind about customer service, this customer will take his money elsewhere.

Thanks for helping weed out a company I am surely not interested in now.


----------



## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Why does Laguna Tools have so many unhappy customers ?

Laguna tools love to shoot themselves in the foot and excel in disastrous business practices.
I would not own any of their junk if it was given to me.


----------



## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

I think that after 408 views and counting , that the reason for so few comments appearing , is that the Laguna horse has pretty much died on this site. 
There are numerous posts about their CS, most every single one is negative.
On occasion , someone (allegedly not an employee or friend of Laguna's) will post something bright and cheery about the company and its CS , which is taken with a grain of salt around here.
So , don't feel that your post isn't being read or is ignored , it's just old news for most of us here .
Take care : )


----------



## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

nice post knotscott; I agree with you, every company throws out some crap once in awhile, also no company has perfect CS (I've seen some recent rants about poor CS from Grizzly, which used to get universally stellar reviews about their CS). Laguna though seems to have a special knack for selling stuff that doesn't work, isn't machined properly or doesn't fit and then REALLY pisses people off about it. Maybe they have a special niche market where people like getting poor CS, kind of like a couple of restaurants that are famous for their rude waiters etc.


----------



## zzzzdoc (Mar 6, 2010)

To be fair, I really haven't had any issues with their CS on my 12" combination jointer/planer and 14SUV bandsaw. I ordered them, they arrived in fine shape, and they continue to work trouble-free. But I've seen many, many negative comments about their customer service. Maybe I've just been lucky. No I don't work for them, blah, blah, YMMV. Void where prohibited by law.

My only complaints are with their chip collection on the jointer (pathetic despite modifying it and using it with a 5HP Oneida cyclone), and that the driftmaster fence attaches poorly to their own 14SUV.


----------



## tyskkvinna (Mar 23, 2010)

One of my favourite things about LJ is that you are free to give honest retellings of your experiences with ALL of the companies. I even complained about a different tool company on here once and they emailed me fairly soon after and tried to make it right. (It was Grizzly and they did indeed make it right.)


----------



## mark4345 (Oct 7, 2011)

A little something to add to this. 7 months ago i was looking into getting a new table saw Laguna was one of the tools i was considering. They had no pricing on their website i could find so i had to fill out something for them to contact me to send me the info.

I first heard from them last week. I already have my saw…not a laguna. If it takes them that long to try and make a sale why would i want their product. If it took that long when they didnt already have the money….what if i had a problem?? who knows how long it would take to get resolved if at all…


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I have had issues in the past with Laguna and have never recommended their tools to anyone. I've have had rather long rants about them in the past so I won't start all over again except to say *buyer beware*.


----------



## woodworker59 (May 16, 2012)

well you all have convinced me, there wont be any Laguna tools in my shop.. I really dislike a company that does not stand up for its customers. Where would any of us be if we sold someone a nice piece of furniture and then just blew them off if something happened and it needed our attention..granted most of us don't do enough volume of work so that we could just write off customers, but laguna wont be able to either if they keep this up.. when there numbers get small enough, they will start to pay attention.. and with forums like this, there numbers will drop.. then see how they grovel and snivel to get your business back.. Papa.


----------



## nwbusa (Feb 21, 2012)

I like to equip my shop with tools that are A) of the best quality that I can afford, and B) from a company that treats its customers with professionalism and respect. It sounds like Laguna fails the litmus test on point B.

It's pretty sad that a company could easily make a situation like this right (and probably win a few customers in so doing) but chooses not to remedy the problem, for whatever reason. If it was my company, I'd at least be doing some damage control here. Laguna, where are you?


----------



## MonteCristo (May 29, 2012)

Not to overstate the point, but Laguna won't change because their idea of Customer Service comes right from the head(s) of the company and we all know a leopard doesn't change its spots (where is a chameleon when you need one ?). In a way I feel sorry for the poor sods that work at Laguna. Jobs are hard to find, especially in California now that its economy is tanking and jobs are at a premium.

Once again, my hat goes off to LJs for alloqwing this post and to all those here who have come forward to acknowledge that this post is not the work of someone who expects special treatment or just likes to complain. It's just another in an outrageously long (for the size of the company) list of experiences that should never have happened.

Someone posted an amazingly glowing acount of Laguna CS just before this post got started. I hope the testimonials here make it clear that, as someone above has said, Laguna appears to pick and chose who gets super CS and who doesn't. A strange way to run a company !


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Um. Duh. 'cause they probably sell more European
made machinery than all other dealers in USA combined.

More customers = more complaints.

Laguna does serious volume and the under $10k price
point stuff like combo machines people on forums
complain about is only a part of the business.

The company has a very serious business providing
high-end edgebanders, line boring machines, 
panel saws, et al. to pro shops with financing. 
In short , they sell to a lot of bigger fish and the
put a new machine in a shop fast when the old
one breaks down. They don't make their money
on hobbiests making flowcharts comparing Laguna to
Minimax to Felder.

Additionally, like any shop that relies on boiler-room style
telemarketing to follow up on leads from the hobby
magazines, they put the inexperienced and desperate
sales reps who don't know anything about machinery 
or woodworking or customer service after the sale on 
the smaller accounts. Like any such phone shop they
pay on commission and thus have high turnover.


----------



## TedW (May 6, 2012)

Point well made, *Loren*. Not to dismiss this thread at all, as it does serve to warn us small timers to stay away from them. But at the same time it's good to realize why it is the way it is. Laguna is not going to change how they deal with regard to small shops and hobbyists, and what you say about where they make their real money is exactly why. It's good to keep these things in perspective.


----------



## nwbusa (Feb 21, 2012)

I don't really buy that argument. If Laguna sells to retail customers then they've made a business decision to invest in that segment of the market. I'm not saying that they should treat Joe Hobbiest the same as a commercial account, but to entirely dismiss *any* customer's concerns is just poor management. Who knows? Maybe the executive of one of those big commercial accounts is a LumberJock and reading this now…


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I've only bought from them once and it was a part for a used
Robland machine. The deal was not a hassle and the price 
was fair.

I live in So Cal - dealing with them is no big deal for shops
here. In other areas you might want to look at other dealers
selling other lines but with closer offices. It's only common
sense. Buying from a West Coast supplier when you live
on the East Coast is risk in some way. There are other
vendors of lines of industrial Euro machines in N. America.

I wouldn't be seduced by special pricing or shipping offers - 
if you are going to buy new machinery buy from a dealer 
you feel you can work with in terms of regional and trucking
concerns. I buy all my stationary machinery used so I
have nobody to complain to. I'm used to it.


----------



## MonteCristo (May 29, 2012)

I think Loren and TedW's last comments help to explain why Laguna is stiill in business. And sadly the business world often involves playing hardball. But, as nwbusa points out, Laguna is playing a dangerous game. There are a lot of small shops, including mine, that wouldn't go near them if a guy decided to expand.

Laguna got its start selling European imports - a savvy move. But back then the Chinese weren't a factor. Now the lock that Felder, Hammer and all those guys had on quality complex machines is being seriously challenged. Look at the incredible success of Grizzly. They probably selll more in a day than Laguna sells in a year. And some of that isn't just toys for a small shop.

Besides being morally wrong, I think treating only select customers well has never proven to be successful in the long run. As to the suggestion that Laguna is indifferent to all this negative flack from the likes of us on LJs, I am not so sure about that. My run in with them resulted to a phone call from none other than Catherine Helshoj herself. If we meant nothing to Laguna, I doubt that would have ever happened.

Sadly, I am not a spring chicken anymore but I am pretty sure I will last long enough to see Laguna tank. I'll have a glass of wine to celebrate when that happens.


----------



## TedW (May 6, 2012)

*nwbusa*, I'm not suggesting that it's good business practice to dismiss the small time customers, just that they may have made a conscious decision to put low level CS staff in charge of this particular sector. Personally, I think it's a really bad decision.

They still have the opportunity to make things right by sending me a bunch of free tools, but they better hurry up before I change my mind.


----------



## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

its crazy if a company tread hobbyist and small shops like that 
if they make tools for that secment of the market 
have they forgotten that a hobbyist can go pro
and the small shop maybee will grow to a big company one day 
all big company´s have started in a backyard by a hobbyist with an idea

they have to respect us more 
I´m pretty sure Torben is from the same country as me hearing his accent in the vidios 
and if so I´m ashamed of being a Dane

Dennis


----------



## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

It's cheaper to get things right the first time. If that fails, it's cheaper to make things right the second time than to alienate good clients who tell everyone they know what happened. The power of the internet has got to be biting them in the backside….this isn't a new issue.

On a side note, 6 or 7 years ago, a good friend of mine was looking at big 16" bandsaws. He looked at Jet, Grizzly, Laguna, and Minimax (among others). The Laguna guys at the Woodworking Show kept badmouthing Minimax, but the Minimax rep wouldn't utter a negative word about any of his competitors, even when we told him what the Laguna guys were up to. My friend respected the Minimax rep's composure, and bought the MM16….he loves it, has received great customer service and impressive performance from it.


----------



## Richforever (Mar 19, 2008)

I didn't buy my bandsaw from Laguna because of bad reviews on customer support. Now days, a company that isn't balanced in quality of products, care of employees, and customer support just won't last very long. Balance is the key.


----------



## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

So who is Kelby, who posted a few days ago about his CS guy who stepped out of church to help him out? A fake? I posted there that the deed was outstanding. Maybe it was not true? Kelby has under 30 posts. Was I suckered into thinking that Laguna is allright?

I will say to the person who said that Laguna sells mainly to the large shops, so does Grizzly, and very successfully. Shops like Gibson, who move more wood through their plant in a couple days than most of us do in a lifetime. It would appear that Laguna will eventually bite the dust if they depend on repeat sales.


----------



## ssnvet (Jan 10, 2012)

I think the "premium product" marketing can backfire on some of these companies…. as customers expect a lot more when they shell out 2x the coin for their product. Then when the CS falls short people feel they got burnt and have the wrath of Thor in their bones.

If they're going to market themselves as a premium product and charge the prices they do, they really do need to get it right the first time and bend over backwards if they don't.


----------



## Durnik150 (Apr 22, 2009)

It would be interesting to see if Laguna has the spine to hop on here and give a reply. I guarantee that they are well aware of this string of comments and have their opinions.

What do you say Laguna, is it time to turn the corner and start fresh? Or not.

We'll see.


----------



## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

I posted something similar in another thread as well. Background: I am an IT engineer/manager heavily foucsed on quality assurance and preventing repeat defects. I have had a ton of very formal and structured training over the years, specifically on interpreting feedback. Please read the example below:

You and your wife/friend/coworker/whomever go to McDonalds. There are 3 outcomes:

1. Your food is exactly as your ordered it, the right temperature, and served promptly.
2. Your food is not how your ordered it, it is cold, and took longer than your thought it should
3. Your food is exceptional, it was ready before you even pulled up to the window, and the employees were really nice

You are 87% likely to tell many people about #1, close to 0% likely to tell anyone (even the person sitting next to you while you are eating your food) about number 2, and only about 10% likely to tell anyone about #3.

Most unsolicited feedback is negative. It is human nature. If something is completely satisfactory and ordinary in every way, most people keep silent. However that is what the expectation is. We do not go to McDonalds to have our taste buds blown away. The same with tools. Most people expect them to do what they advertise. If that happens, it's no big deal because it is what you expect.

I bet if the site admins pulled a report of all the reviews here, more than 80% would be either 1,4,or 5 stars. 2, and 3 are commonly given when people feel they have an ordinary experience.

Moral of the story - Silence is the language of satisfaction.


----------



## MonteCristo (May 29, 2012)

lumberjoe:

I think you are arguing that the 87% appies to #2, not the satisfied guys in #1. But, if you are arguing that Laguna doesn't have a systemic CS problem, I think you're wrong and I think the other replies here support that. As the saying goes, "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck".


----------



## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

You are correct. You will likely NEVER hear from the "number 1's", but rest assured there are MANY out there. I have no experience with Laguna directly, however as a generalization unsolicited feedback (reviews online, general forum posts that are not in response to a specific query as examples) statistically tend to paint an unrealistic picture - either overly positive or overly negative - never average. Categorizing something as a "duck" without a broad sampling of first or second hand experiences could be unfair. I'm not saying feedback should be ignored, but it should not encompass your entire decision making process.

To make things more complicated, you also need to take into account the size of the sample. A greater than average responses (positive or negative) should not be dismissed as statistical outlyers, but further analyzed and corrective actions should be taken if negative, and lessons to apply to troubled areas of the business should be realized if positive.


----------



## MonteCristo (May 29, 2012)

Hi Joe:

I also have a background in statistics and I agree with your reply. In the case of Laguna, hoever, it is obvious that the number of "1 stars" is way too high. And it's got a long track record of "1 stars". When I rrealized that I was being stabbed in the back by Laguna, I did some digging and quickly found that experiences like mine had occurred at Laguna for years. When this all started, it is hard to say, but given that it can be traced right to the top of the company, my guess is that it started as soon as the company started to feel the heat that inevitably comes with the rough and tumble of the business world. Maybe sooner. Some companies try to do CS even better when this happens but it sure looks like Laguna isn't one of them


----------



## Alexandre (May 26, 2012)

This is where you get a Rikon, Grizzly, Powermatic or a General International


----------



## BenI (Jun 8, 2012)

Probably won't be buying any bigger woodworking tools in the near future but glad I read this post in case I do, definitely won't be Laguna.

Thank you for the post


----------



## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

My responses are not defending Laguna in any way. I have never done business with them, and I am not in their target demographic. I can tell you a lot about customer service in general. My engineering specialty is in network voice applications, infrastructure and design. Have you ever called your cable TV provider or credit card customer service lines? I'm guessing a lot of you have. Often times you are asked to enter some account or identifying info. Most people think that the information is used to expedite your call and get you routed to the right department/CS agent. A lot of times the opposite is true. 
In a LOT of cases, calls are NOT answered in the order they are received. Your account standing has a lot to do with how long you are on hold. If you are a "small" customer, you have a negative bill repayment history, or meet several other factors, you will be on hold longer, and you will be routed to less skilled and possibly off-shore CS agents. This strategy is called priority queuing. It's sad, but a lot of companies are not focused on providing excellent customer service to everyone. They want to keep their valued customers happy, and provide a minimum acceptable level of quality to everyone else. This could be the case with Laguna as well. I'm sure they have large customers spending well over 100k, and maybe even spending that frequently. If they lose a customer buying one piece of equipment, that could be acceptable in their business model.
I personally try to take my business where it is appreciated in my price point and target demographic. As an example, Woodcraft tends to be a little pricier than their competitors, but every time I walk into the store I received excellent service from everyone that works there and sometimes even vendors that stop by. Knowing what goes into customer service, that is a premium, not an expectation. If the woodcraft markup is something I feel is acceptable over the competition based on the service I receive, I will gladly pay it.


----------



## stonedlion (Jan 12, 2011)

Having no experience with Laguna, I cannot comment on their customer service or their tools.

What I find interesting is what appears to be their aggressive attempts to suppress negative comments from customers.

I had already made up my mind before this thread came up, that Laguna was never going to see a dime from me, just on the strength of the CS complaints here on LJ's. This thread has only served to reinforce my decision.


----------



## MonteCristo (May 29, 2012)

Hi Richard:

You are right on the money when you say Laguna aggressively works at suppressing negative customer comments, especially when it comes to their CS.

I notice on the other Laguna post that is very active at the moment that a link is provided to another forum. Some forums are touchy about referencing other forums so let's just call this other forum SAWMILL_RIVER or SMR for short.

SMR is the forum on which I first attempted to tell my story of horrendous Laguna CS. Things went well for a week or so. A lot of people responded, with almost all of them supportive, just like here on LJs.

My post on SMR resulted in a call from Laguna's head (business) honcho, Catherine Helshoj. I gave her details of my miserable experience with her staff in CS. One employee in particular had been rude, bordering on abnoxious, and had discounted my problems saying "well, you got the thing on your TSS, what's the problem ?". Well, the problem was that what should have tajken a few hours took well over a day because there were NO INSTRUCTONS, NO DOCUMENTATION, NO DIAGRAMS, no nothing. And it turned out that contrary to what Laguna had stated, the piece wasn't even designed for their TSS !!

When Catherine Helshoj heard the above she was anything but sympathetic. She backed up her employee 100% saying that he had been there for years and was a great guy. No "my goodness, I'll have to look into this" here.

What happened next showed me the kind of hardball that can play out when you rock the boat, even if you have every right to do so. Soon after talking to Catherine Helshoj, I tried to sign onto SMR (they require you to sign on or at least they did) and my account was blocked.

I GOOGLED the name of the guy who owns SMR and emailed one of his sites to ask what was up. No response. I then accessed SMR through another account and sent him a PM. No response at all.

Laguna Tools is an advertiser on SMR. Is it just a coincidence that I disappeared from SMR just after I had a run in with Catherine Helshoj ? IMHO, I don't think so.

It gets better. EVERYTHING ABOUT MY NEGATIVE EXPERIENCE WITH LAGUNA TOOLS, INCLUDING ALL THOSE SUPPORTIVE REPLIES, VANISHED FROM SMR.

How's that for controlling negative Customer feedback !!!


----------



## MonteCristo (May 29, 2012)

Hi Joe:

Good points ! I think a lot of us are totally unaware of the hardball some businesses play. Thanks for sharing !


----------



## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

Well, following this thread and Kelby's thread, I got curious about ownership and other things about Laguna tools. In sales, I have access to a couple databases other may not. I did see where on one website that tracks professionals in companies in this country, Laguna had 15 listed, nine of which had changed e-mails, bad or disconnected e-mails, or no longer at the company. Jason Cotton, the CS rep, was not listed so it is in some part incomplete. But then, I ran across this: http://lagunatoolssucks.com/index.html
I have to be honest, I never have seen a complete website dedicated to the trashing of a company. Someone has too much time on their hands.

And this for all our good Canadian friends. It seems to be fair and honest. http://flairwoodworks.com/2011/06/12/my-experience-with-laguna-tools-inc-and-canadian-woodworker/

And lastly this, which also seems to be fair but reinforces why I am buying the Grizzly G0513X2BF bandsaw. http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/LT-16.shtml

Or maybe you would like to get ahold of this fellow, who was General Manager of Laguna Tools for ten years up until April, 2007. http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=48535463&authType=NAME_SEARCH&authToken=5miJ&locale=en_US&srchid=21e074d5-9a1e-4ccb-82bd-a4b99702240c-0&srchindex=1&srchtotal=6&goback=%2Efps_PBCK_Gregory+Godbout_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*2_*1_Y_*1_*1_*1_false_1_R_*1_*51_*1_*51_true_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2&pvs=ps&trk=pp_profile_name_link

All this is public information, completely available to anyone on the net with no payment or restrictions. Come to your own conclusions.


----------



## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

thanks for the links Tennessee …. but the last one just gave me a site where we can 
sign in ... nothing ells

Dennis


----------



## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Wow….the fact that lagunatoolssucks.com exists speaks volumes, and is consistent with how PO'd the customers are in many of the complaints I've read. It'd be very easy to dismiss the site as an extreme act by a disgruntled customer, or even from a competitor, but based on the tone in many posts that I've read over the years, I'm inclined to believe it's at least somewhat representative of the level of frustration some folks have reached. It's really a shame that any business can be so unconcerned about legitimate issues with products that they chose to sell and profit from….business has to be mutually beneficial or it just doesn't work out.


----------



## MonteCristo (May 29, 2012)

I wonder what Kelby will say to the excellent digging Paul in Tennessee has done. Just more whacko's Kelby ??? They can't all be nutters.


----------



## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

Dennis, sorry about the last posting. It was just a listing for an ex-employee of Laguna who left in April, 2007. He now runs a business selling high end tools and also runs an excellent workshop for cabinet builders with another couple of very smart wood people, I think in VA. He has been in wood tools most of his life and spent 10 year and 1 month at Laguna.


----------



## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

it sounds a little like …. he didn´t got the golden handshake when he left
nomatter how good he runs busyness´s ellswhere 
if he talks bad about his former employer that paid his salery … his opinion doesn´t count 
his opinion can be the true version … I don´t know …. but it doesn´t realy worth two cent 
not defending Laguna here … 
Dennis


----------



## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

Dennis: I've never met the man. He might have just run his course at Laguna and moved on to bigger and better things. His profile on Linkedin is one of a very smart, knowledgable tool man. His current position benefits custom cabinet and window makers across this country who want to attend his workshops. I never said he stated anything about his former employer, just ran across his profile and noted that he spent 10 years at Laguna as their GM, which in my mind, if you could get his opinion, it probably would be accurate. That being said, I have no intention to approach him. It was research only. I would, however, not mind attending one of his workshops!


----------



## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

I have misunderstood you there Tennessee 
since the list you talked about I asumed was something ells … sorry

Dennis


----------



## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

I have not read all of the previous posts, and no offense to anyone who has posted, but it seems to me there are always the same people slamming the same things, any opportunity to get a negative word in on Laguna is taken.

I am not in love with or connected to the company, but have dealt with them and have purchased a number of tools and had them shipped to Canada over a 10 year period.
All have been fine without incident or damage or issue.

I bought their hollow chisel mortiser a couple of years ago, there was a delay in shipping it to me (30+ days), I was compensated with a leather apron, an extra set of chisels and a couple bandsaw blades. Seemed really fair to me, I did tell them I was not in a rush, they still sent extras and apologized every time I spoke with them.

To offset some of the negatives here, I have only a positive experience to report.


----------



## AHuxley (Apr 22, 2009)

"And lastly this, which also seems to be fair but reinforces why I am buying the Grizzly G0513X2BF bandsaw. http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/LT-16.shtml"

That shouldn't have any impact on your purchase decision since that is a much older LT16 built by Meber not the current machine.


----------



## MonteCristo (May 29, 2012)

Here's a link for any of you who wonder if things have improved at Laguna Tools:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/employers/laguna-tools/laguna-tools-catherine-helsho-836f6.htm

Note that the most recent post is Oct 22/2012. The dude lists some other links that make interesting reading. Of course I am pleased that they absolutely corroborate what I have claimed in this post. They also show, to me at least, that a leopard does not change its spots.


----------



## BelleCityWW (May 28, 2007)

I have one Laguna item in my shop and it's the three hp mobile cyclone and I would buy another one in a heartbeat! No complaints!

John


----------



## MonteCristo (May 29, 2012)

John:

That there are some happy Laguna Tools customers is not the issue. It's the frequency, magnitude, and reasons behind the unhappy customers that others need to know about.


----------



## MedicKen (Dec 2, 2008)

Cause their tools are crap and customer service is even worse


----------



## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

Send a letter with return receipt requested and note on the letter that copies have been forwarded to the district attorney and the BBB.


----------



## ebenewwork (Aug 2, 2009)

Today, I've tried to buy stuff from Laguna. As I'm in Quebec and they are in California, I've left a message.
The guy who called me back was so arrogant, I've hanged up the phone and decided to buy Rikon tools instead.
A few hours later, I've tried to chat with someone at Laguna to try to let them know how disappointed I'd been.
Same game, no way to have a positive discussion with those guys.
It's a shame cause their products looks fantastic but the CS is a total disaster.


----------



## nwbusa (Feb 21, 2012)

I recently bought a couple of Laguna tools. I had a minor problem with the air filtration unit, so I thought I'd test out this infamous Laguna customer service. Got on their web site, sent them an email, and… nothing. Then, a few days later, my local retailer (from whom I bought the tools) emails me and says Laguna contacted him, and told him that I was on their site looking for information on purchasing a new bandsaw, and was there anything he could help me with?

Needless to say, I explained the actual situation, and to the retailer's credit he had a solution for me within a couple of hours. So, I say +1 to the retailer for handling my problem quickly, and -1 to Laguna for miscommunication and general unresponsiveness.


----------



## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

I have seen the Laguna Bandsaws at the woodworking shows for years, used a friends back in 2007 and it seemed to be nice. PRICE at the time for me was a major factor. I went with cash in my hand to the woodshow and saw Laguna, sorry not impressed and zero on negotiation of a cash price or anything at all, even a hat. (laughing) Went to see the Delta people and was told, "Go get your Dad son." I was 30, and do not have some baby face so this comment did not go well with me. Leaving I went to the Jet people. Bought a bandsaw, and a drillpress with mobile bases for $800 CASH. Even got a shirt, cap and a coupon for a leather belt. The bandsaw had a busted wheel on it from shipping, called JET and in 2 days had part in hand, even sent me a 20%off coupon for any purchase over $300 good for a year. Adding a lathe a year later I have 4 pieces of equipment that have no issues, work well, and when I did need anything had great CS, fast delivery and always some goody in the mail. Sales are made by good reps, a fair price, a good machine, and lastly kept and added to by good CS. I would have bought a TS but have a Delta and see no need to just buy a new one. Lastly when in Iraq I contacted JET and asked about problems from 3 years of storage with capacitors and such. They sent me info AND a care package with another coupon for 10% off products signed with real ink to be good for LIFE. Unless you have served in a war zone you have no idea what such a gesture means. My name on the mail list usually meant another demand for cash from the ex-wife, or a long list of reasons I was a bad Father because I volunteered for Iraq. (laughing) For some they may not be the best, but they sure work hard at it in my experience.


----------



## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

I keep hoping that Laguna will step up their game and improve their CS (their tools sure look nice!). In the almost 3 years I've been on LJ's this topic has come up again and again with the bottom line; Laguna may have some satisfied customers (and other companies with "good" reputations may have some very unhappy customers) but the volume and frequency of complaints I hear about Laguna far exceeds what little positive I hear. Will never buy their tools for this reason.


----------



## Fettler (Dec 6, 2012)

I just bought a brand new LT-18 3000 Bandsaw and it's defective.
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/48091

I've spent days worth of time now dicking around with it and the only reconciliation laguna offered me so far is a free resaw king blade. Not to mention my shop has been in a state of disarray for weeks now with bandsaw parts and tools lying about.

Luckily I purchased this saw from Woodcraft and they agreed to take the saw back if Laguna was unable to resolve my issues.


----------



## nwbusa (Feb 21, 2012)

Yesterday, I bought a LT14-SUV. So far, so good. Of course, it's only about 18 hours old at this point…


----------



## Fettler (Dec 6, 2012)

FYI, Laguna is shipping a new bandsaw which will be here in 2-days.


----------



## MonteCristo (May 29, 2012)

We all need to get the word out : The fact that Laguna's CS is NFG is no accident or intermittent phenomena. The source of all this unhappiness is right at the top of the pyramid. When the head honcho(s) in a company are not interested in treating customers fairly (and they own the company), you have a situation that, if anything, will only get worse. Add to this the fact that, increasingly, their product lines are Chinese imports (just like a whole lot of other guys, some of which have excellent CS), and it seems to me that people should start looking elsewhere rather than paying a premium for a good coat of paint (and a whole lot of hassle).


----------



## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

With the economy tanked buying a Porsche is less likely for those who can barely afford a Domestic or import in the lower end. Finding out they run pretty good and with some care last a decent amount of time the Porsche becomes an even less likey purchase in the future. But at the end of the day we are but small fish eggs in a shark tank. They don't care and what money you would have spent is pocket change to them so they figure why bother. Sad but true. I hear ya Monte, and I doubt I could be convinced to spend that kind of money for what I can spend less on and it gets the job done without all the issue, minus the CS hassle..


----------



## nwbusa (Feb 21, 2012)

I think that market forces tend to sort these things out. If a company becomes non-competitive either through poor quality products or poor customer service, they won't survive-there are just too many competitors out there waiting to capture our business. I agree that we should spread the word about our experiences with Laguna (and other companies). That's part of the value that forums like this one offer to woodworkers like us.


----------



## RodNGun (Feb 4, 2012)

Wow, seems like a lot of piling on, especially from people who don't own any Laguna tools announcing in advance they will never trade with Laguna. At the risk of getting my head band-sawed off…... I had a great experience with Laguna. I was in Orange County for work and asked for an appointment to come look at their machines. They set me up with a display of the saws I was interested in, showed me a massive inventory of band saw blades that I found fascinating, and then toured me around the rest of the place like I was important. I subsequently ordered the saw I wanted and it arrived in just few days (I'm not kidding 4 or 5 days) I had no problems setting it up, all parts are perfect no alterations required. My machine runs better than expected. The Resaw King blade is as good as it gets. I subsequently ordered a bigger fence that was out of stock so they gave me a better (bigger) one for the same price. Sorry, I like these guys they treated me well, more importantly, I like my saw it exceeds expectations. I would trade with Laguna again, no problem.


----------



## nwbusa (Feb 21, 2012)

There you go. Some people like Laguna, some don't. No problem. I don't even think it's a problem for people to say they'll never trade with Laguna, whether they own Laguna machines or not. You don't have to be a boxer to know getting punched in the face hurts. And for the record… I own three Laguna machines.


----------



## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

*RodNGun* Your experience began with a good salesperson, furthered by a good machine, and you actually had good CS. I never got past the salespeople, sure it has a pricetag but I have bought other tools that cost more than average and been pleased with the results. Other manufactures gave me better treatment, it started with that and moved forward. Perhaps the Atlanta area has a poor showing in sales and thus we get the lowest caste of salespeople, have no idea…... It is possible though.. (laughing)

.


----------



## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Rod - Most of the complaints I've read are from people who have dealt directly with Laguna, and have either been turned off or burned by their antics. For such a small company, it seems like they have a lot of complaints and have earned their public flogging. Laguna complaints are rampant on many other sites besides this one. That's not saying they don't have any good tools, or that some people don't get treated well, but apparently not all do.


----------



## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

Although I'm not in the market for a new BS, my decision to NOT buy a Laguna, or any other machine for that matter would be based on the number of concerns raised by owners.


----------



## ElChe (Sep 28, 2014)

Plus 1 on Grizzly CS. I met the owner in Bellingham. He's on top of things at his company. The quality of Grizzly tools have steadily improved over the years to the point where they compete well with Delta and other manufacturers. Their CS has steadily improved over the years. I too have avoided Laguna Tools simply due to so many negative comments about their CS. When you pay a premium price for a tool, you expect top notch CS. Laguna must know that their customer service is steadily ranked so poorly and it seems they haven't done a whole lot about it. Sometimes you don't get what you pay for.

Tom


----------



## AZWoody (Jan 18, 2015)

AppalachianArtisan, we get you're unhappy, and I don't blame you.
You're one of many who have had a horrible experience with Laguna and their customer service.

Spamming the same thing, over and over on every thread related to Laguna is not constructive nor does it make yourself look good.


----------



## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Well after 6k$ I probably would do the same.


----------



## AZWoody (Jan 18, 2015)

> Well after 6k$ I probably would do the same.
> 
> - TheFridge


So you'd go and dredge up every thread on a forum that goes back years and basically clog up the first page or 2 of this site with necro posts to copy and paste the same thing repeatedly?


----------



## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

I love the bandsaws and blades. However I wanted information on a discounted Cnc machine that I guess was a show demo. In the email a link took me to a site to put in my info so I could be contacted. Filled it out and not one contact I even did it a second time to see if something slipped through the cracks. No call nothing. I guess the did not really want to sell it.


----------



## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

boy, i sure am glad i'm insufficiently affluent to be able to afford nice high end tools like laguna. seems like a lot of owners spend more time working on their tools than they spend working with them.


----------



## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

What happened to AppalachianArtisan? I wanted to PM him about particulars as the second saw he had is one I was considering.


----------



## AZWoody (Jan 18, 2015)

> What happened to AppalachianArtisan? I wanted to PM him about particulars as the second saw he had is one I was considering.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


He probably got banned and his posts deleted.
He was posting the same rant on every forum post that had any kind of reference to Laguna. Even old, dead threads.
That's pretty much frowned upon on most forums.


----------



## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

I can tell you my personal experiances.

18 months ago I was looking for a nice Lathe and I thought Laguna would fit that bill.

I called them and they sent me a DVD on all of their tools. When I picked out the lathe I wanted I called them "No answer" so I then sent them an email that same hour. After no response for two days I called again and again and again and emailed them 15 more times with no answer.

So I though enough is enough I was almost begging to buy their lathe so I got a Powermatic 3520b which a lot of guys helped pay for me to get.

So I will NEVER ever do business with someone who will not respond to me. I heard their products are great but their customer service STINKS and I guess I learned this.


----------



## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

If this problem is real I feel for you and would recommend getting in contact with a lawyer and sending a demand letter. That gets attention in a way that might resolve your issue. That being said you joined LJ today and the 1st post is this?


----------



## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> That being said you joined LJ today and the 1st post is this?


Maybe the first post as THIS user… you must of missed the other 19 or so post rant as another (which probably got the boot after that). All identical cut-n-paste jobs, and on the end of any thread found that even remotely mentioned Laguna 

Cheers,
Brad


----------



## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

> All identical cut-n-paste jobs, and on the end of any thread found that even remotely mentioned Laguna
> 
> Cheers,
> Brad
> ...


Being mad is one thing, a few posts and a drink and move on. To do it again and again. I am thinking issues??


----------



## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

I've read so many negative reviews about Laguna's customer service that I've written them off my list.


----------



## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

I see AppalachianArtisan is back now as aawc. I think I'd cut my losses and remember what an aneurysm would set me back.


----------



## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

> I see AppalachianArtisan is back now as aawc. I think I d cut my losses and remember what an aneurysm would set me back.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


ROFL, ain't that the truth.


----------



## alittleoff (Nov 27, 2014)

Laguna will pay one o f these days for the public relation problem they seem to be having. I know I will not buy anything with their name on it after reading the post I've seen about their problems. It will take time but sooner or later it will catch up with them.
Gerald


----------



## exelectrician (Oct 3, 2011)

I bought a very nice slot mortise machine from an EXTREMELY disgruntled Laguna customer for $50.00

After figuring out what what was wrong It was an easy thing to correct the problem. I feel bad for the guy who could not fix a mechanical problem and took a $1000. hit in the wallet.

I blame Laguna for not having competent service people on the phone who could advise customers on how to adjust their machines so the customers do not get so frustrated that they throw the things out, and sell them dirt cheap.


----------



## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> I feel bad for the guy who could not fix a mechanical problem and took a $1000. hit in the wallet


Agree completely… most 'problems' are really simple to remedy. But if you have no mechanical ability, a small problem can appear huge. Plus, it's extremely hard to try and figure out what is going on over the phone and you really need to be there and see it up close and in person. I can't remember a single time I've felt the need to call a manufacturer regarding a problem, and I don't even consider customer service when making a purchasing decision - although some people seem to place it over and above all other considerations for whatever reason.

Cheers,
Brad


----------



## Jeff2413 (Oct 23, 2015)

Dang I'm glad I got on here tonight. Was about to pull the trigger on the 16" planer today and getter extra 10% discount. Not now. No way. Think I will go ahead and order my 15" Grizzly with helical cutter.


----------



## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Wise move Jeff2413


----------



## Porchfish (Jun 20, 2011)

Damn, I have been looking at their new 1836 Revo Lathe, It has some fine features but if they are that difficult to deal with…Back to Grizzly !


----------



## 716 (Nov 22, 2015)

> I feel bad for the guy who could not fix a mechanical problem and took a $1000. hit in the wallet
> 
> Agree completely… most problems are really simple to remedy. But if you have no mechanical ability, a small problem can appear huge. Plus, it s extremely hard to try and figure out what is going on over the phone and you really need to be there and see it up close and in person. I can t remember a single time I ve felt the need to call a manufacturer regarding a problem, and I don t even consider customer service when making a purchasing decision - although some people seem to place it over and above all other considerations for whatever reason.
> 
> ...


Very simple Watson ! A good customer support will send you a malfunctioning part replacement or even replace the whole machine. A bad one will leave you hanging.
About your purchasing decisions I thought you opposed to buy anything new. No ?


----------



## Porchfish (Jun 20, 2011)

2/22/2016 I Saw and used a demo Revo 18 36 lathe and was impressed. I ordered one from Woodcraft and was told it would ship within 2 working days. 10 working days later no information from Laguna or from Woodcraft..Back-ordered by default ? I am canceling the order and looking elsewhere. Too bad ! the Revo-18-36 was everything I needed and it is beefier and had more of the IMPORTANT bells and whistles to make it a better buy than a comparable (?) Grizzly . It really appears that the only way to get a really decent heavy duty lathe is to bite the bullet and wait another month or two and go for the Powermatic 2035 which comes delivered for 4 K AND carries a 5 year warranty. I've looked at Rikon and Bailiegh, and they both miss the mark for quality features. The Nova is the flimsiest lathe 24" that I have ever seen. The Lathe bed belongs on a Lionel train. Someone at Laguna has their head up their nether regions. I have relied on Shop built monsters of my own design but am too old and lack the energy to rely on my slow speed change system and need for wedging tail stock and tool rest in perpendicular with trial & error methods. The fun of being self reliant has its disadvantages in the face of such amazing technological changes of the last 10 years ! PorchFish (Don Schneider, Havana Florida.


----------



## TarHeelz (Sep 13, 2012)

Anyone looking to give away some of these frustrating Laguna tools, just shoot me a private message. I'm willing to relieve you of your burden.


----------



## ThomasChippendale (Nov 6, 2015)

Porchfish, I don't know what you did wrong but a fellow woodworker just had his Revo lathe within a few weeks, he lives in northern Quebec, Canada . I had a 14SUV bandsawn my garage within a week and the defective motor replaced within days shipped straight from California. This Laguna bashing is getting old but I enjoy my bandsaw and my fellow just loves his new lathe.


----------



## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

> Anyone looking to give away some of these frustrating Laguna tools, just shoot me a private message. I m willing to relieve you of your burden.
> 
> - TarHeelz


ROFLMAO


----------



## DirtyMike (Dec 6, 2015)

as a new woodworker i put laguna on the do not support list as soon as i started researching tools. way too many similar complaints about terrible customer service. If I am going to buy china it will be from Springfield.


----------



## 808ukulele (Apr 28, 2016)

Wow, had no idea Laguna had such poor CS. Add another to the list. Owned an LT20 for over 12 yrs, pretty good CS until I downsized and bought a new LT18. They had sent an old manual with the machine with the wrong blade specs. I read through the manual BEFORE setting up the machine and ordered blades from Spectrum. A few days later, I had the time to assemble and noticed a spec tag on the frame of the saw. Long story short, blades I ordered are too short. They pretty much accused me of lying about the manual I had saying they don't include manuals with their machines (???). The machine is top notch, I have to say. Customer service…....meh. Now I'm stuck with a good saw but will have to bite the bullet if it ever breaks down and I have to call CS. This is really unfortunate, they used to be pretty good from what I remember.


----------



## 808ukulele (Apr 28, 2016)

> Dang I m glad I got on here tonight. Was about to pull the trigger on the 16" planer today and getter extra 10% discount. Not now. No way. Think I will go ahead and order my 15" Grizzly with helical cutter.
> 
> - Jeff2413


I've had that machine. Grizzly can be hit or miss but mine kicked ass. The thing about Grizzly is they don't give you crap when you have an issue. Parts go out immediately and they do what it takes to get their machine up and running. I'm staying away from Laguna.


----------



## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

Although I'm not in the market for any more power tools, These anti-Laguna posts serve a definite purpose; to alert the public to companies that don't give good CS.


----------



## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

They won't let you post your one sided rants on SMC, so you thought you would try to destroy Laguna on LJs. Well, I know the moderators over there and if they blocked your posts, then there was a damn good reason. It probably has more to do with your attitude than your alleged complaints. I know of people who are so hateful to a customer service representative (or forum moderator) that they would turn an otherwise cooperative person into someone who wouldn't give them the time of day. I really suspect there is waaaay more to this story than what you are telling or what you are even willing to admit to yourself.


----------



## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

He did start this thread nearly 4 years ago, whatever problem he had at this point is almost certainly ancient history.


----------



## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> They won t let you post your one sided rants on SMC, so you thought you would try to destroy Laguna on LJs. Well, I know the moderators over there and if they blocked your posts, then there was a damn good reason. It probably has more to do with your attitude than your alleged complaints. I know of people who are so hateful to a customer service representative (or forum moderator) that they would turn an otherwise cooperative person into someone who wouldn t give them the time of day. I really suspect there is waaaay more to this story than what you are telling or what you are even willing to admit to yourself.
> 
> - ArtMan


SMC is the most unreasonable over moderated forum in the history of the internet. Hell man you can't even say "you suck" without getting in trouble over there. There were a number of people who left SMC over the banning of "you suck".....remember that one. Talk about censorship that place is the ultimate in that category. Referencing SMC carries very little weigh in my view.

I'll side with the OP and stay away from Laguna tools. I have read way to many negative post on them over the years.


----------



## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

There were several people who left after that episode and a few were worth listening to. As for me, I am very happy they banned this crude reference to a sexual act as a way of expressing their envy with someone's purchase. There are a lot of old school people there who believe in decency and decorum who were offended by the phrase, not the least of which is the person who owns and maintains the site. Why should it be allowed anyway when there are thousands of ways to express the same feeling without offending anyone. These advocates for crude language were, in fact, simply showing unnecessary disrespect to other long term forum members in order to keep their cheap vulgar phraseology. Why?


----------



## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

If you think "you suck'' has to mean something dirty then that just your dirty mind at work.


----------



## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

HI there all .Porchfish said
Damn, I have been looking at their new 1836 Revo Lathe.
Surely a lathe made in 1836 cannot be their newest lathe. LOL sorry Brother couldn't resist.


----------



## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

I never heard of any complaints re laguna tools this side of the pond. However if laguna tools ever called a customer a liar here I think they would do themselves enormous harm.
Not very *bright* to do those kind of things when your dealing with customers who have had a bad sometimes seriously bad experiences already with your company.
As I say they seem to get a very good name here in the UK from what I have heard. Alistair


----------



## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

You have to be the most nieve person I have ever interacted with.


> If you think "you suck has to mean something dirty then that just your dirty mind at work.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy


----------



## AZWoody (Jan 18, 2015)

> You have to be the most nieve person I have ever interacted with.
> 
> If you think "you suck has to mean something dirty then that just your dirty mind at work.
> 
> ...


So you're saying that if I "suck" at hand cut dovetails, I'm performing a sexual act on them?


----------



## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> You have to be the most nieve person I have ever interacted with.
> 
> If you think "you suck has to mean something dirty then that just your dirty mind at work.
> 
> ...


----------



## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

I personally never saw the humor in telling someone they suck when they get a good deal on something.
Are we 12 years old or what?

As far as customer service goes, I believe a lot of how we deal with situations influences the outcome. 
A lot of people think they should be reimbursed for their time lost when they have trouble, then bad mouth companies when their not. You don't get the best attention when your giving attitude to anyone.


----------



## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Of course some people have no sense of humor or better yet a different sense of humor. When someone say "you suck" I don't feel offend and get my panties in a bunch. The last thing I think of is a sex act. But I guess some certain types of people do.


----------



## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

> ... As far as customer service goes, I believe a lot of how we deal with situations influences the outcome.
> A lot of people think they should be reimbursed for their time lost when they have trouble, then bad mouth companies when their not. You don t get the best attention when your giving attitude to anyone.
> 
> - jbay


I'd agree with that, but I doubt that Laguna customers are specifically more difficult to deal with than the general population of tool customers. I don't see as many Laguna complaints lately, but for a long time Laguna sure did have a lot of negative CS posts, and it wasn't just problems with the machines….it was bad responses to problems with the machines from folks that sounded credible to me. It seemed very disproportionate to their market share….I don't have data, but I'd guess they sell a fraction of the tools that Grizzly, Jet, PM, and Saw Stop do.


----------



## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

We have companies with excellent reputations like Lee valley. We have companies with not so good reputations.

I believe companies make their own reputations.


----------



## rustfever (May 3, 2009)

My experience with Laguna has been very positive. I am wondering what I am doing wrong. It seems, if I read these post, as if I am one of the very few getting exemplary service from Laguna.


----------



## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

> You have to be the most nieve person I have ever interacted with.
> 
> If you think "you suck has to mean something dirty then that just your dirty mind at work.
> 
> ...


You suck


----------



## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> You have to be the most nieve person I have ever interacted with.
> 
> If you think "you suck has to mean something dirty then that just your dirty mind at work.
> 
> ...


How do you know?


----------



## xmastree (Sep 19, 2015)

Three Italians walk into a bar.
They each grab a beer and all go sit down at a table.
There, they begin feverishly scribbling on napkins and scraps of paper, comparing drawings, swapping ideas. They are trying to design a bandsaw.
After two hours of this, his frustration apparent, Mr. Lamborghini puts down his pencil and looks tiredly at Mr. Ferrari and Mr. Bugatti and sighs, "...I dunno, fellas…maybe we should do something else…"


----------



## mrg (Mar 10, 2010)

Xmastree,

Now that was funny.


----------



## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

> You have to be the most nieve person I have ever interacted with.
> 
> If you think "you suck has to mean something dirty then that just your dirty mind at work.
> 
> ...


I wasn't using it in the literal sense if that's the proper smart work for it


----------



## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

When I buy a tool, I don't buy it considering how good or bad customer service is. I buy on the quality of the tool.
My shop consists of probably 80% used tools that came with 0 customer Service, and I have survived just fine with them. 
I know there are times/machine troubles that you may need CS, but I wouldn't let it be a factor in my decision if it's the tool I wanted.


----------



## philba (Aug 23, 2014)

Glad you haven't had a problem where CS was needed. I'm pretty self reliant too but CS is still important to me. If nothing else, shipping missing or shipping damaged parts is important. A simple thing but apparently a challenge for some companies. This is why I have a lot of griz tools in my shop. Never had one down for long.


----------



## WoodenRyan (Mar 5, 2016)

I recently purchased the Laguna 1412 bandsaw, which I love. After a month one of the adjustment wheels froze up. I contacted Laguna, told them the issue, they immediately mailed me a new part, didn't even want the old one sent back. All they asked for was a copy of the receipt. They were super accommodating. I too have heard horror stories about their customer service, but so far, I cannot complain. I'll be ordering the Laguna Fusion Table saw soon and hopefully things will go smooth with this as well. If not I'll definitely update here!!


----------



## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Yep. The term he was thinking of is, blows.



> If you think "you suck has to mean something dirty then that just your dirty mind at work.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy





> If you think "you suck has to mean something dirty then that just your dirty mind at work.
> 
> - AlaskaGuy


----------



## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

It's a little like experiences with the VA. Some people died waiting for help, others didn't.

When I expressed my annoyance with their claim I had to go through a battery of tests to prove I have the condition for which they'd been sending me pills for the last ten years, a couple idiots flat out called me a liar. As it turns out, it's a left hand vs right hand thing [in the case of the VA and one of my experiences]. My records were out of Seattle, but they were digging through ELECTRONIC records in Spokane and couldn't find mine.

Point being, location, an employee gone bad and a million other things can make a company one to avoid. Just because some have a good experience doesn't mean those who don't are wrong.

In the end, my rule is, when enough people say there's a problem, I'd be stupid to ignore them. More so if that pattern doesn't repeat at the competition.



> My experience with Laguna has been very positive. I am wondering what I am doing wrong. It seems, if I read these post, as if I am one of the very few getting exemplary service from Laguna.
> 
> - rustfever


----------



## Salems_Thom (Feb 14, 2017)

Wow! I was considering some Laguna Tools as upgrades but not anymore. When things go awry and you need assistance, the last think anyone needs is a runaround. I have a SawStop Pro table saw and the extension table was laminating (AZ is a harsh climate for anything not already dead). I sent them an email, they asked for some numbers off the saw, I sent them and in less than a week I had a brand new extension table. No questions asked. THAT is Customer Service!

I guess some companies have decided that it is more cost effective to hire consultants to purge the web of bad reviews than to actually change their business practices. I have worked for crazy managers that do this sort of thing and they look great for the quarterly bonuses but sooner or later, they're out of a job due to lack of sales. Thanks to all of you for making this buyer aware.


----------



## Jaybird64 (Mar 23, 2017)

Please tell me how stupid I am for not seeing this post before buying from LT! I joined this club a few months ago, but quite honestly, I do not have time to sit and explore internet stuff often enough. So last Saturday, I bought the Resaw King bandsaw blade at the tune of $250, as it looks like a good quality blade for my 15" Powermatic! ;o)

I had an uneasy feeling after my purchase when I didn't even get a "confirmation receipt" of payment! I've tried 2 attempts to contact them via their online submission and with regular email. I just want to know that my money didn't go to some phishing scam website which looks like Laguna Tools. Especially when payment is made through "Paypal" (not account) but with regular credit card and merchant name is [email protected]!?

I'm sure it's legit, but come on…a simple confirmation please! I hope this doesn't turn into a huge disaster. Also, I keep thinking about when it's time I need to send the blade back for resharpening, how many days it take before they return it? Has anyone been through that process before. And if so, what was your experience?

Lastly, is there a bandsaw blade on the market that is comparable to the Resaw King in terms of quality cuts?


----------



## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

I really like my experiences with Laguna. Just compare their 14" bandsaw to a Power Matic….


----------



## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> I really like my experiences with Laguna. Just compare their 14" bandsaw to a Power Matic….
> 
> - Desert_Woodworker


Maybe Laguna's service has improved in the last 5 years when the OP started this thread.


----------



## meltechs (Feb 22, 2014)

For anyone looking into Laguna's laser cutters - I did a review of their relatively recent push of CO2 and fiber laser machines. After talking to one of their helpful reps they have only been selling them since around the beginning of 2017. The units are made by a Chinese supplier (Bodor) and quiet cheap compared to most US suppliers. From what I'm reading you get what you pay for though.

bodor reviews


----------



## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

I have experienced both good and bad CS from Laguna Tools.

It seems to me, that once a product goes out of favor, typically discontinued older models with discontinued parts, etc, the customer service for that machine becomes nearly impossible to work with.

Newer machines that are favored by the company, that are current offerings and may appear to have more profit incentive for the company, tend to get more attention for customer service.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

I have hand only bad experiences with them also. Their C/S is the WORST in the world.


----------



## John_ (Sep 23, 2013)

Sorry, didn't read all the posts…

Bought a LTS 3000 Bandsaw from them in the summer of 2014 ordered through Wood Werks. The whole thing came to about $2,500 including a couple of blades.

It was packaged extremely well. First time I received a large tool like this that did not have some sort of shipping damage. There was a very minor issue - the throat plate has a screw that wasn't countersunk properly and protruded slightly. I contacted Laguna, they were very helpful and immediately sent out a replacement plate and for my trouble, they threw in a free bandsaw blade.

Very happy with the bandsaw and I would definitely buy another Laguna Tool again… (Can't say the same thing about a big Italian machinery company that I did business with)


----------



## KHighland (Oct 27, 2017)

Any customer reviews on the laser machines they now sell? Comparatively speaking they are significantly cheaper than competitors. Hear pretty good feedback on bandsaws but not so much on their lasers.

http://www.apa21.org/2017/09/laguna-tools-laser-reviews/


----------



## dubois (May 21, 2013)

I'm living here in Holland and from the (few) comments above that I have taken time to read may guess is this company is owned by a European. This Idea of pliant customer service is truly an American ideal - I make no claim good or bad just my observation. That said the concept (CS as it is put) in its infancy is catching on here, for better or worse. Still for me what matters is the functioning of the machine.


----------



## JerryinCreek (May 11, 2013)

2hp dust collection, needed a new start-up capacitor - can't speak with a human and my message was returned 32 hours later! Yes, I was not home! Call back, ordered the part - took forever to get it. They sent the wrong one!! Called and confirmed they screwed up, they will send a correct replacement- 8 days later I called to ask where it was? They said they were allowed 3-4 days to ship. I pointed out it was now eight days! "We'll get it out today!" That was eight days AGO! Still don't have it. RIDICULOUS! Horrible CS! Won't do Laguna again! I need a dependable DC system! Not this disregard for customer service!


----------



## MadDuckBill (Feb 4, 2018)

I'm new here, so my comments may not mean much. I have had exactly one interaction with Laguna, and that was about 25 years ago. I bought a bandsaw from them. When I set it up, I found a problem with the table not aligning properly across the gap. Torben Helshoj himself arrived in my garage to have a look! He also took the saw back to Laguna with him. I elected to simply return and not replace it, as I was skittish at that point, I certainly can't fault Laguna's service for that one incident!

I'm considering a Laguna dust collector. The new "Flux" machines appear to have been seriously redesigned. Not sure I'll pull the trigger, but they got my attention again for the first time in years.


----------



## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

You comment means as much a anyones. One or two positive accounts don't don't make up for the hundred of negative comments I've read over the years and my own encounter I had with them. Mine was a small issue and more about the salesman's attitude. But it was enough to make me shy away from them.

Would it hurt you to at least to say what state you live in you profile, are you afraid of something?


----------



## MadDuckBill (Feb 4, 2018)

I live in FL. I lived in Los Angeles when I bought the Laguna bandsaw.


----------



## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> I live in FL. I lived in Los Angeles when I bought the Laguna bandsaw.
> 
> - MadDuckBill


If you want to ship a band saw across the USA and want super service both before and after the sale go here and talk to Jesse.

http://www.eagle-tools.com/

One caveat, he won't have Laguna.


----------



## MadDuckBill (Feb 4, 2018)

I've bought a number of machines from Eagle and haunted the place when I lived there, as it was only a few miles from work. The last I purchased was a 20" Agazzani bandsaw he shipped to me when I lived in NH. Terrific dealer. His brands come and go.


----------



## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

Jesse was selling Laguna Bandsaws last year. Now that Aggazani is not making saws anymore i guess he had no choice. I am proud owner of a B 20/20. 
I hope Laguna does well today,tomorrow. 
I can't say I feel the same about Grizzly


----------



## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> I've bought a number of machines from Eagle and haunted the place when I lived there, as it was only a few miles from work. The last I purchased was a 20" Agazzani bandsaw he shipped to me when I lived in NH. Terrific dealer. His brands come and go.
> 
> - MadDuckBill


Well then you probably know where this come from


----------



## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> Jesse was selling Laguna Bandsaws last year. Now that Aggazani is not making saws anymore i guess he had no choice. I am proud owner of a B 20/20.
> I hope Laguna does well today,tomorrow.
> I can t say I feel the same about Grizzly
> 
> - Aj2


My memory doesn't always serve me but as I remember some company bought the rights to build Aggazani band saws . They are still being built but before saying much more I need to see if I have find the rest of the story.


----------



## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

I found the rest of the story

This is a copy of an email I received from Jesse.

From: "[email protected]" <jesse>
To: AlaskaGuy
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: Aggazzani Band saws

Since 1988

E A G L E T O O L S
3027 Treadwell St., Los Angeles, CA 90065 (323) 999-2909 (800) 203-0023

Hi AlaskaGuy
to PanHans in Germany, machines and parts will continue to be available.
Notes on this subject appear below.

Regards,
Jesse Barragan

AVAILABILITY: Normally, we keep every bandsaw model in stock, but now,
due to the factory move from Italy to Germany there is a gap in our inventory.
We expect our first container of bandsaws to arrive from Germany
in the late summer. After the first container, the supply of Agazzani
bandsaws will arrive at regular intervals as in the past.

WAITING LIST: There is no obligation on your part to be on our waiting list.
We'll keep you informed as to the progress and development of the first production
of bandsaws from the German factory. Those on the wait list will receive the
lowest possible pricing. We expect that any changes in prices will be clarified
very soon. Agazzani prices have been lower than most European bandsaws.
We expect German prices to stay within 5% of our current prices.

AGAZZANI MOVES TO GERMANY: Agazzani has been one of Europe's premier
bandsaws, made in Italy, since 1938. Now Agazzani has been acquired by Hokubema.
This German firm has been selling Italian Agazzani bandsaws in Germany for over
20 years, under the PANHANS label. As of 2013, Panhans is now producing these
bandsaws in their own factory along with their other high quality woodworking machines
that Panhans has manufactured for over 60 years. (Note: Panhans is only one of two
companies in the world that makes a tablesaw that that tilts the blade 45º in both
left-right directions.)
Website for Panhans: www.panhans.de/pan_en/

SAME AGAZZANI QUALITY FROM GERMANY:
Panhans has made it clear that they intend to build bandsaws with original Agazzani
materials and engineering. In fact, some of the original Italian factory machines and
personnel are now at the German factory. To further insure continuity, at this time,
the cast iron wheels and steel bandsaw frames will continue to be made in Italy.
Panhans is not planning to make any changes in Agazzani for the near future.
The emphasis is on CONTINUITY.

Agazzani bandsaws have been imported into the USA for over thirty years.
Eagle Tools has been the USA importer since 1998.

Reply-To: AlaskaGuy
Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 12:21:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: Jesse Barragan <jesse>
Subject: Aggazzani Band saws


----------



## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

OK, in 8 years, have things improved? I am not finding ANY company with customers complementing their service. I understand, provide good service and the customer tells one. Provide bad and they tell ten.

One of the few things that seem to differentiate Laguna is pretty much happy with the actual tools, where many others are hit or miss. A store clerk who assembles the floor models did comment he thought the forethought and hardware of the Lagunas to be a tad better than the competition. Reviews are of course useless as the machines delivered to be reviewed will of course been verified, so missing parts, broken parts, casting sand, bad bearings will have been screened out. It is no wonder that when folks get a GOOD Jet, Grizzly etc, they are very happy.

In truth, I would expect the need for support would be very small. There is not much to woodworking tools. All the precision parts can easily be automated. We are basically talking about 19th century technology with maybe just some newer motor controllers. I wish all the horror stories were the only dozen or so unhappy customer of many thousands sold, but I am not convinced. When one starts peeling off Clevelands, I want the one of the "good" ones. Not sure I know how.

Put this in perspective, my other hobby is old British sports cars. I am quite used to horrendous quality in both original and replacement parts. But on the whole, only found one company whose customer service was nasty.


----------

