# pre conditioner for stain



## Blondewood (Mar 30, 2009)

I finally made the move from 'box store' wood to REAL lumber yard wood. I still only used pine for this project, but the quality was much better. I made a little cabinet for my bathroom (I'll send a pic when the door is on). I stained it with my usual Minwax Oak. Seems to me it's a bit blotchy. I bought the select white pine, which was supposed to be the best. Never had a problem with blotches with pine from the home center. I built the door last and I've put on pre-conditioner to see if that helps. Other than the frame around the raised panel, it's all from the same board. I'll check tomorrow and see if that made a difference. Has anyone else experienced good stain results with box store wood and blotching with lumber yard wood?
Vicki


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## boboswin (May 23, 2007)

Charles Neil has a blotch control that works really good. 
just search on this site for blotch control and you can get in touch with him.


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## JonathanG (Jan 18, 2010)

Here's the link to the CN Blotch Control: http://shop.charlesneilwoodworking.com/Charles-Neils-Pre-Color-Conditioner--Blotch-Control_p_47.html

From everything I've heard and read, it's really good stuff. I have 2-quarts of it waiting to go on a future project where I'll be using riftsawn white oak plywood, combined with riftsawn white oak. I want to make sure they match when I stain them, so they'll be getting a coat or two of the CN Blotch Control as the conditioner.

There are reviews of the product on here too, as well as a video of Charles demonstrating the product.

Pine tends to be a bit blotchy anyway from what I've seen, no matter where it comes from, so you might want to try the CN product. I know I'm anxious to use it!


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

I use a milk thick mixture of wall board joint compound and water. Sand well after dry and apply stain. Works well for me on fir and pine.


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## jimc (Mar 6, 2008)

I am currently working on a bookrack that I just stained with TransTint dye over Charles Neil's Blotch Control. The wood is hard maple and when I did a sample piece without the Blotch Control, it showed considerable blotching. After using CN's Blotch Control on the actual project, there was no sign of blotching at all! I'm sold and will be using it from here on for all blotchy woods - maple, cherry, pine, etc. It looks a little strange going on as it is a milk white but it surely does what it is designed to do.

Jim


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Here's another shout-out for Charles Neil's Blotch Control … used it on a cupboard I built for my wife's sewing room ( http://lumberjocks.com/projects/35191 ), and the results were great.


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## Blondewood (Mar 30, 2009)

Thank you everyone for the tips and responses. I watch Chas on youtube, so I know what you're talking about. Does it need to be sanded after applying like Jim F's mix? I don't have a dedicated finishing room so don't want to add extra time to the process.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Yes … with Charles Neil's Blotch Control you need to 'scuff' it with 220 or finer grit. His formula is water-based, so it will raise the grain a bit. We're not talking about a lot of sanding … just a light scuff to knock down the grain.


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

...... Does it need to be sanded after applying like Jim F's mix?...... Yes and it is dusty!


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## boboswin (May 23, 2007)

I like to take the nub off with one of those 3M abrasive pads.
All water based materials will raise the grain a bit.


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## Blondewood (Mar 30, 2009)

Thanks guys, you're a big help.


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## NathanAllen (Oct 16, 2009)

Another option is to make your own pre-stain conditioner with 1lb cut shellac, since it isn't water based you won't have to raise then knock down the grain.

To fix any issues with your current project consider applying a shellac then a tinted glaze layer above to cover up some of the blotching and provide a depth coat.

Depending on where you're located you may be buying SYP from the Big Box, it takes stain easier which is why you're having a difficult comparrison with the White Pine.


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## Blondewood (Mar 30, 2009)

Hey Nathan. Thanks for the great tip and feedback. Do the box stores sell glazes? I know nothing about them. Can I just brush it on? Will shellac go over oil based poly?


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## spclPatrolGroup (Jun 23, 2010)

+1 for the 1lb cut of shellac, its all I use for conditioner anymore.


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## hObOmOnk (Feb 6, 2007)

+2 for shellac attack.


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## NathanAllen (Oct 16, 2009)

The Dewaxed Shellac is compatable with almost everything, regular waxed (Amber) and poly are a little less compatable.

Normally Shellac is used as either a base or a barrier beween two otherwise incompatable layers of finish. It's the bacon of the finishing world; it goes with everything.

The big issue with poly is that it is notably incompatable with other finishes. This is not to dismiss poly, it is very durable, but once it's settled there's not much you can do to fix it.

For availability, General Finishes makes a Glaze that is fairly easy to apply, you can pick it up at Rockler or Woodcraft. If you don't have one nearby you can always order online, in fact Woodcraft is having a free shipping over $25 promotion right now. GF is a great entry level brush on "exotic" finish manufacturer, Milk Paints, Oil & Urethene, Pre-mixed water based stains, etc. Great stuff and it's made in the Midwest.

http://www.generalfinishes.com/retail-products/water-base-milk-paints-glazes/glaze-effects

Another idea since I've been thinking about finishes lately (working through a pile of walnut over the last and next couple years so finishes without coloring) is to use 2lb Shellac with an oil based dye; TransTint is my favorite since it is availble in small quantities. This would let you skip the glaze, but you'd want to use dye and layers (shellac is reactive so each layer melts into the next) to obscure the blotching but leave some impression of grain below.

After the glaze or shellac (depending on how many steps you want to go through) you can re-coat with poly or laquer to provide a moisture proof topcoat.


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## Blondewood (Mar 30, 2009)

Thanks Hobo and Dave. Thanks also to Nathan for the detailed info. I recieved a finishing book as a gift a couple of years ago. Guess I best dust it off and start reading. ';o)


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## JSZ (Jan 5, 2010)

Shellac is a great solution for the problems you (and most of us) have had with blotch-prone woods. An economical shellac can be found at paint stores, the Depot, Lowe's, etc. It's a Zinsser product called Seal Coat. It is a 2-lb. cut of dewaxed shellac with a proprietary ingredient that greatly extends shelf life. When you buy a gallon of it, you won't be worried about it not drying properly as you would with many pre-mixed shellac products.

For a wash coat, cut it in half with denatured alcohol, brush or spray it on, let it set, and scuff-sand with P320 paper.

Here's the other secret to a good finish, no matter what kind of product you're using. Safe some reasonably sized scraps of lumber from your project. Prepare them for finishing at the same time you prepare the project - planing, scraping, or sanding exactly the same. Use the scraps as finishing samples. write on the back of the sample the steps you've taken applying the various coloring and topcoating products. Then you will know exactly how your project will look, assuming you followthe same finishing sequence. Best of all, if you save these samples, you will quickly build up a "library" of finishing results, and you can refer to the samples for your next project.

Good luck!!


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## JonathanG (Jan 18, 2010)

JSZ,

I like your idea about creating your own little sample library. All the information is right there with the piece… you don't have to go searching through a notebook, or anywhere else, for that matter.


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## Gofor (Jan 12, 2008)

Ditto what JSZ said on the Zinsser's and the scrap test pieces. If you have the minwax seal cote, use two coats and let it dry overnight for better results. The short time in the directions does not hack it. The shellac dries quite quickly, and lets you get on with your work.

Go


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## hObOmOnk (Feb 6, 2007)

JSZ:

I, too, have a library of finished samples that I show clients, use as references and as teaching models.
Some of my examples are staged, showing how each step in a process contributes to the final finish.

I also keep a collection of joinery examples for the same purposes.


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