# router kick back



## treg (Jun 5, 2011)

I've been fortunate as a woodworker to not have had any safety accidents but last night I experienced a router kick back that thankfully only managed to scare the heck out of me and prompt me to share. I was using a 1 1/2 straight bit with a top bearing cutting along a pattern for a curved leg…quatersawn oak 1 1/4 thick. I felt I had done all the proper steps to make a safe cut…slowed the bit speed down…used a pin to help guide…slowly eased the work piece in and only took 1/16-1/8 cut max. I had four legs to cut and the kick back happened on the second one. I reassessed my set up and had a second kickback…I was able to complete the cuts with the grain but decided to abandon the end grain cuts. I searched LJ and found an exact forum entry from Brad in 2011. I'll throw it out to you all again…was my set up correct…should I have done anything differently or is this just a dangerous cut. 
I was following a woodsmith plan for a shop stool and I'll be honest…I was really uncomfortable finishing the cuts I did.
Tom


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

Building my guitars, I have to do a fair amount of plunge cuts. Recently, I somehow forgot to let the bit stop before pulling out of the plunged chamber I had created.
Sure as the dickens, the bit touched the side of the chamber while moving, almost throwing the router out of my hands and ruining the guitar body.

What made me pull out before the bit stopped, when I ALWAYS let the bit come to a full stop? Who knows. I always take all precautions when doing plunge - not climb cutting, being careful to take light cuts, especially when the chamber side is edge grain, letting the bit stop in an open area of the chamber before pulling out. Save this one time.

We all do it occasionally, I suppose. No damage to me, but I had to start on a new body and it set the build back two weeks, including the cost of the exotic woods I lost.


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## timbertailor (Jul 2, 2014)

Every piece of wood is different and there is always some uncertainty as to how your tool is going to handle it.

If you have a router table, I think I would feel more comfortable using it to finish the cuts. Just a safer option if you are having trouble IMO.


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## Kentuk55 (Sep 21, 2010)

Glad to hear you have all your digits. Thnx for reminding us of some of the dangers of our fun hobbies. Everyone, be careful out there.


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## Nubsnstubs (Aug 30, 2013)

Tom, glad to hear you didn't get hurt.

Now for the questions. Why did you slow the router speed down?

What was the OD of the router bit?

Were you cleaning up a band saw cut, or were you cutting a straight piece of wood to your pattern?

Is there a curve you are trying to get on the end grain. If not, why cut it with a router?

I'm not asking to criticize you , but to settle my mind on the things you described. I've gotten mangled by a router once, and it wasn't pretty, so when I hear people say they've had a bad experience with one, I ask questions…... Jerry (in Tucson)


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## treg (Jun 5, 2011)

Jerry, the cutting diameter is 7/8…I followed manufacturer speed. I was cleaning up band saw cut with a pattern taped on it. The end grain are straight cuts on a curved leg.








I don't mind the criticism…it's all about preventing accidents…thanks.


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## Albert (Jul 28, 2008)

I know first hand of what you speak. I've found that only taking minimal cuts at a time helps but does not cure all. I've read that using an upcut spirial bit is recommended but have not tried it due to my cheapness. If you try it please let us know.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Also glad you didn't get hurt. I too experienced kickback of sorts while using a circle cutting jig and a 1/4" upcut carbide bit. I had a thin rubber mat (think rug pad) under the work piece and it was just a little too close to the perimeter in one area. The bit caught the mat and broke instantly. The jig being centered in the work piece by a pin kept the router from moving but ever so slightly when it happened, which was very fast. My lesson was less dramatic and only cost me the piece I was working on as well as a brand new bit but was nonetheless eye opening and has since raised my safety awareness.


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## levan (Mar 30, 2010)

Since you mention using a pin, I assume the router was mounted in a table. I know a lot of people use this method and I occasionally use it also. But on smaller pieces I prefer mounting the work piece and passing the router by hand over it. This way I can safely do some climb cutting for smaller bites. 
best wishes 
Lynn


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

Just like jointing and planing you have to watch the grain. As your bit was leaving the long grain and entering the end grain, picking up the fibers it will sometimes grab. At least on the jointer and planer all you get is tear out. On the router table kickback. I've done this too but did not get much kickback just BAD chatter (I was fortunate). I cured the problem by doing a VERY light climb cut through that portion of end grain. Then it occurred to me to turn the pattern over and rout that section from the other direction. While I still encountered the end grain the fiber direction was running with the rotation and did not chatter. Does this make any sense?


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## longgone (May 5, 2009)

1/8" is a lot to take off with a pattern bit…especially on a hard oak that is 1 1/4" thick. I do a good bit of template routing on my router table and found it very advantageous to just take a very small amount off with the pass. I try to cut my wood 1/16" or less when possible…and then I barely let the bit kiss the wood lightly. You should never rush it by pushing the workpiece too hard of fast.. Depending on how the grain is running I flip the template and workpiece over and go from the other side.

I use a Whiteside compression spiral bit and even though it is not cheap it is the absolute best for the job. The cost of a good bit is nothing compared to the cost of what could go wrong…


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## treg (Jun 5, 2011)

After the kickback I tried climb cutting and it still didn't feel under control….but that's a good suggestion. 
I was thinking the combination of the hardness of the oak fibers and cutting a fairly large width led to my issue…speeding up the bit speed was something I was considering but in the end I just nibbled away and once the bearing hit my pattern the cut went better.


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## AandCstyle (Mar 21, 2012)

When I was cutting the legs for these chairs encountered significant chatter which made me so uncomfortable that I asked for advise and ultimately used a flat spoke shave to finish the legs. I think I had done everything to minimize the chatter-1/16" cut outside the line, 1.25" diameter bit, climb cut or not depending. I am not a hand tool kind of woodworker, but in this case, I think it is the best option for me. FWIW


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

This is a 6-year-old post, but since I'm fixin' to get more into routing, I've been reading. I use routers mostly for small roundovers, but have purchased a number of pattern bits and was looking forward to doing some pattern routing.

Is kickback a common problem?

Does it make sense to change out the bearing to limit the depth on early passes where otherwise you wouild not be touching the template? I can imagine changing the bearing after each pass would be tedious, but might make it safer.

I do own a huge (Whiteside 3018) straight template bit. Maybe I shouldn't use that one.

Thanks,
-Paul


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Only time I get kickback is when I have a brain fart and go the wrong direction.


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## treg (Jun 5, 2011)

Paul,

I don't think you need to get as drastic as changing out the bearing. If you take all the standard precautions and understand your wood choice you should be fine. In my case I was being too aggressive with the amount I was cutting and I wasn't paying enough attention to my wood choice and grain….live and learn.

Just read the book "little and often"...kinda sums up the patience needed in woodworking.


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

I have done quite a lot of pattern routing white oak legs. I won't rout end grain. In fact I make all my templates so it's impossible to rout end grain.

I even make my templates longer than the workpiece for a smooth transition starting and stopping.

I strongly suggest you mark the leg length and cut the ends with a chop saw or tablesaw. 
Curved ends can be cut on the bandsaw and refined by hand.

Best of luck!


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

Is it just oak end grain that should be avoided? Or is that a general advice? I have a lot of cherry, and a good bit of walnut I might be working with.


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## torus (Apr 8, 2017)

BigMig just posted this link to CFC videos

And one of them would be excellent addition to this thread (at least for me) 
All points have been addressed: grain direction, longer patterns, end grain, manual finish, jig for narrow pieces, preventing kickback.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

I often end up routing end grain when I do template work.

In general, it's a sucky thing to do since there always seems to be some tearout and/or burning. If I can use a saw to do the end grain cut I will, but often enough I need to follow the router template.

When taking into consideration the bits rotation and wood grain direction, I'll often use a pattern bit with both top and bottom bearings. With this style bit I can always be routing the grain "downhill". I'll route the appropriate sections with the template between the wood and router table, riding on the bits shank bearing, then flip the part over, lower the bit, and continue with the template on top riding on the bits top bearing.

For the endgrain section, I'll enter the endgrain on its left hand side (when the endgrain is positioned away from me). This means the bit will *not* be climb cutting. I'll do this up to maybe the 1/2 way point, then flip the part, reposition the bit and finish the cut from the opposite direction.
With this method, the cut is fairly stable and shouldn't blow out wood when exiting the cut.

Of course it's best to trim the piece as close as possible to the template (I like a disc sander for this) to minimize the wood available for grabbing by the bit.


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

Thanks. That video looks helpful. I'll watch it at home. Working now.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

Oak endgrain can be a PITA no matter how you slice it in my experience. You might get 3 boards done without issue then do the fourth exactly the same way and have the bit grab hold and tear a big chunk out and make you crap your pants. Oak is the only wood I've ever had such a time with. I avoid it whenever possible and when it's not, I make sure my bit is sharp, watch my grain direction and take light passes. A spiral compression bit like longgone posted up there ^ would probably be a big help.


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