# cheap owners



## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

I have seen alot of companies here paying under the table etc..At first i didnt really care but now i see it takes sales away from real companies that pay the bills.Worst yet i see guys get hurt and they are fired.Most of these guys cant do much about it.Amazing in these times that this type of stuff is getting more common.


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## ScottKaye (Jan 19, 2013)

Not sure what this has to do with this forum "safety in the woodworking shop" perhaps you need to post in a different forum?


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## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

workers getting fired for getting hurt for working for people that provide dangerous situations fits right in scott.Does it matter that much to you which heading it goes in?


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

I've never seen a company here paying under the table etc…


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## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

Common here i think because this is the worst state to do business in.


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## RPhillips (May 16, 2013)

...and what state exactly would that be considering that these forums are open to the entire globe.


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## ScottKaye (Jan 19, 2013)

State of confusion maybe? Cuz I know I'm a card carrying resident when it comes to this thread!


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## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

Hawaii? Entire globe? confusion? card carrying resident? wow thanks the feedback…...if you dont like my thread theres no reason to read it or get stupid with me cuz….


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## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

Joseph? Have you been hacked? Is this really you?

You haven't made any sense, (sorry), since you posted this.

Why not start over again and explain who and what you are talking about. Who knows, it might help.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Your first post is vague, at first I thought you were talking about LJ which didn't make much sense but now I see you are probably talking about Hawaii. Not everyone is going to look at your profile to see where you live and they shouldn't have to.

Back on point, when you say it is becoming more common do you mean more common in Hawaii specifically and why do you believe that? Sometimes people think something is becoming more common when really they are just becoming aware of how common it is. Paying under the table is pretty common in every state where I've lived and has been for decades, at least. A related issue that was more common until the IRS cracked down was paying employees and listing them as contractors. This happened to my friend, he wasn't real savvy about looking over his pay stubs and a few years later the IRS came after him for not paying his taxes.


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## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

Dallas and Rick thanks for responding.Yes i see i did run a in complete thread.I cannot name names or company names as it will open me to law suits.Ill let this thread die as i dont have time right now to go into detail.Thanks for responding politely and not just picking a fight for no reason like others here.Mahalo


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## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

Trying my best not to pick fights anymore.


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## ScottKaye (Jan 19, 2013)

Hey dude.. You need a chill pill big time. No one knew what the hell you were trying to say. I politely pointed out that what ever it was, it probably wasn't meant for this forum. I take great offense to you calling me "CUZ" I am not your cousin and I would appreciate if you wouldn't refer to me in that manner. I think most people, except you my friend, recognized the way I was using the word "CUZ". AS IN BECAUSE.


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## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

ScottKaye, In defense of Joseph, I think you have either misread or misunderstood the usage of "cuz."

"if you dont like my thread theres no reason to read it or get stupid with me cuz…."

The usage in the phrase, in my opinion refers more to the word 'because' that to the word, 'cousin.'

Don't try to start a fight by manufacturing a reason.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Joseph, did you get hurt and then fired? Did you get paid under the table? Let's hear the whole story. I'm on your side…life can be tough.


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## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

Threads over Scott chill out…If you want to take it further give me a call we can talk my phone numbers on my website.Mahalo

Dkv I fire my self daily hurt or not hahahaaa ill answer your question.A few of the wood shops here in Hawaii hire chronics or the less off.when things go wrong they are fired gone.No insurance for injuries nothing.No legal paper trail on labor etc.Mean while the owners bring in big profits.It takes business away from the ones running legally and in the end hurts the profession as a whole.Nothing new really but as a business owner with kids i dont like losing sales to this type of business.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I read this thread and am confused.

In my area, this is not a common thing to hire people under the table. Some people will hire for small jobs under the table. I know a guy building a house that hires people like that. I would not hire a company or do business with a company that I suspected was doing this.

Any legitimate business, could get sued and arrested for doing what you are suggesting. Why if a worker got hurt doing such a job would he not go to the police or some other authority or even use civil action to get compensation for an injury. Any injury on the job would come under the state OSHA department.


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## NoThanks (Mar 19, 2014)

> Why if a worker got hurt doing such a job would he not go to the police or some other authority or even use civil action to get compensation for an injury.
> - Redoak49


Afraid he might get deported?


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## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

Actually, hiring a non-documented worker isn't illegal.
Asking to see a green card IS, however illegal and can cost an employer $10,000 in fines for discrimination among other things.
Hiring short term workers under the term, "Casual Labor" or "Contract Labor" is also not illegal. In neither case is the employer required to provide insurance or anything else. Both types of employee are however, required to provide a name and a Social Security number in the US. I don't know about other countries.
Funny thing is, my wife use to work for a company that checked S.S numbers and names…... Many times the same numbers would be used for hundreds of different names.
The government doesn't require that the employer check those numbers or names unless the employee is either a short term, (part time), employee, or a full time employee.


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## ScottKaye (Jan 19, 2013)

Dallas that's a stretch bud. Ive had numerous people read this thread and they all agree, his use of the term CUZ was derogatory street slang where mine was clearly not. Don't try and point a finger at me when Im not the one that started with the hating


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Bud? BTW, undocumented Arabs always undercut my prices and I lost my trucking company because of it…MERS also.


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## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

ScottKaye, Who are these "Numerous People?" 
Any with a degree in English? I happened to minor it it years ago. Granted, there is a language shift over the years, but I would very much like to see how those same people construct sentences.

Send some examples please. Not of your retyping, but of their typing when you copy and paste.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Oh goodie, Scottkaye is going to be the entertainment tonight.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Hey man, Joseph, put that in your marketing copy.

When clients know you're a man with an honest
ethic, kids to feed, etc… well, maybe you get a
better selection of clients.

We're in an emerging age of internet transparency
which means, to me in this context, that if you're
a hard-working precision craftsperson you can
let people know it's not all roses but you do it
because you want to build a life for your family
and a legacy of good work.

If they don't like that and want buy from somebody
cheaper, they can stick that in their pipe and
smoke it.


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## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

Aloha wow its still going scott i wish or mean you no ill will…cuz because what ever its minor…make it to hawaii come have a beer on me…

Loren your right on i try not to put the kids in theyre but with a medical dependant son hes always with me on jobs.Hard work pays off and good and true customers will pick up on it.To be honest i dont put my business adress advertised or answer the phone too busy with repeat customers.DKV your always funny im a jew hard to undercut me hahahaaaa Loren saw your other post this is my stress relief!


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> Asking to see a green card IS, however illegal and can cost an employer $10,000 in fines for discrimination among other things.
> - Dallas


Just for clarity before someone gets worked up about the "gubbermint"-it is only illegal during the interview process, just as it is illegal to ask for your driver's license during the interview process; and for the same reasons. Once a person is hired, it is required to ask for certain forms of ID to fill out the I-9.



> Actually, hiring a non-documented worker isn't illegal.
> - Dallas


If by "hire" you mean as an employee, it is illegal; casual, temporary, part-time, makes no difference. If you mean "hire" as in hire a mechanic to fix your car, a lawn company to mow your grass, or a consulting firm to evaluate your business, then yeah, documented status is not your problem.


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## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

Hiring an undocumented worker is not illegal. Continuing to keep the worker employed once they are found to be undocumented however is. 
The problem with that is that the I9 goes through companies like the one my wife worked for or ADP. The government will not give them or the employer any information about the worker being legal or illegal.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

I understood this thread. I have been a pro in a very dangerous field for over 36 years. I got hurt saving my own life. After 2 operations and several months of therapy I was ready to return to work. One day back and then they fired me to prevent me from getting hurt again. Noone else will hire me for my proffesion because of age and medical background.


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## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

I agree with you papadan!


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

@Dallas, You're playing word games. Filling out the I-9 is part of the hiring process, if they can't produce the required documentation then you don't hire them. False identification is another ball of wax. I-9's are not that difficult but many employers are lax and half-a$$ them, if they do them at all. ICE will give you a warning unless you have a history of hiring undocumented workers. The problem is that previous administrations never bothered to enforce the law and companies became accustomed to hiring illegals then getting a finger wag when they were caught. Under Obama, getting caught means a probable fine for repeat offenders, although they are cutting the amount of fines by about 75%.


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## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

Definitely NOT playing word games.

Casual labor or temps or contract labor, (all who receive a 1099) are not required to provide an I-9.

I was a general contractor for many years. I was also an owner operator of a small trucking company. Now my wife and I are the managers of an RV park. We cannot afford to make any mistakes in this arena. 
Soon we will come up for a promotion which will include overseeing our park, another park and 16 quad plexes the boss just bought.

When my name goes on the line, believe me, I am sure who is doing the work for me.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Dallas, I used to own a trucking company also. Small world…did you find a good source for feed?


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