# What's the best wood joint?



## sawdust1whisperer (Nov 11, 2014)

Here's a video I stumbled upon on YouTube. It's title should have been what's the strongest joint. 









I was surprised to see which wood joints were the strongest.

Im having trouble linking the video to my blog so if anyone can link it in the comments that would be nice.

Let me know if you think the test he preformed was fair. Was his joinery up to par and was the glue dry on all the joints.

Was this test a glue failure or a joint failure?

The name of the YouTube video is:

What's the best wood joint II insanely strong Joinery!

All comments are welcome.


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

Yes, I've watched that video front to back. It IS surprising, and I found the information to be supremely useful.


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## sawdust1whisperer (Nov 11, 2014)

> Yes, I ve watched that video front to back. It IS surprising, and I found the information to be supremely useful.
> 
> - Jerry


Yup. I'm going to be using more spline joints now.


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

Best?

Strongest for the application,
Produces the most admiring compliments,
Uses the least amount of wood,
Shows off the most figured grain,
Contains the most curves,
Includes my initials,
Requires the fewest bolts,


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## sawdust1whisperer (Nov 11, 2014)

> Best?
> 
> Strongest for the application,
> Produces the most admiring compliments,
> ...


Phil. I agree with that philosophy as well. It's about the beauty and art of woodworking.

Just thought It was an educational video.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

I wonder what would happen if he sealed off the end grain, and by doing so decreased the amount of glue wicking up into the grain? Shellac, glue sizing, something to block the open grain.

Seemed like the treatment of the gluing up might not have been very consistent, how much glue, how long in the clamp, clamping pressure. So many potential variables.

The thing that made me wonder about the above question was that none of the corners really broke the wood, and in other "clamping tests" I've seen in the past a few would blow up the wood. All of these separated at the glue, so I question the glue up process, or maybe just the glue used?


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

+1 Phil32 - there is a lot more to picking type of wood joint than strength.

+1 Something about these results is not typical. 
Properly constructed wood joint usually shows the glue is stronger than wood fibers?

I trust the joint strength testing results from FWW #203-Jan/Feb 2009 Issue:
https://www.finewoodworking.com/2009/02/25/joint-strength-test

Last but not least: 
When in doubt about strength of your joints, try the Scorpion Joint :-(0)

Cheers!


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

My wife likes to keep up with fashion and style trends. As long as my glue holds for 6-12 months that is strong enough.


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

Some surprising results. I'll go with what I know, and looks.


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## sawdust1whisperer (Nov 11, 2014)

> +1 Phil32 - there is a lot more to picking type of wood joint than strength.
> 
> +1 Something about these results is not typical.
> Properly constructed wood joint usually shows the glue is stronger than wood fibers?
> ...


Thanks for you input Klutz. They were two different test. The one I presented was end grain to end grain.

The Fine woodworking test was side grain to side grain.

As far as the scorpion joints, I wasn't allowed on the web site unless I said I was 18 or over.


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## Jim Jakosh (Nov 24, 2009)

I agree with Phil on making a call on the best joint. Almost any joint will be strong enough unless the fitting is really bad. Chairs probably have the most strain but they can be made to take it. The design of the piece will call for a certain look in the joint and when you achieve that, it is the best joint for that one!!

My 2 cents worth on that….............Cheers, Jim


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## sawdust1whisperer (Nov 11, 2014)

> I wonder what would happen if he sealed off the end grain, and by doing so decreased the amount of glue wicking up into the grain? Shellac, glue sizing, something to block the open grain.
> 
> Seemed like the treatment of the gluing up might not have been very consistent, how much glue, how long in the clamp, clamping pressure. So many potential variables.
> 
> ...


Thanks Steven for watching the video. And all those who took the time to watch it.

It also left me with many questions. I was surprised to see which joint was the strongest


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## sawdust1whisperer (Nov 11, 2014)

> Some surprising results. I ll go with what I know, and looks.
> 
> - Eric


Thanks for your reply Eric. I never would have guessed which one would last the longest.

I'm with you. You do your best work when you know what your doing.


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## sawdust1whisperer (Nov 11, 2014)

> My wife likes to keep up with fashion and style trends. As long as my glue holds for 6-12 months that is strong enough.
> 
> - SMP


That's funny SMP.


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## Zort (Jan 15, 2019)

While watching this video, I started giggling as soon as I saw his testing method. When do we ever stress a joint in a 45 degree direction? Probably never, we stress it perpendicular to one face and parallel to the other face.

The splined miter joint was the only joint where the material (splines) was stressed in a perpendicular direction.

Many people commented about the size of the dovetails, but if his test attempted to pull the pins out of the tails, I am pretty sure that the dovetails would have needed more force to break than the box joint.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

It's all about making videos. The content only needs to be simple enough for anyone to absorb.
If it had good value it wouldn't be free. 
Good Luck


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## TravisH (Feb 6, 2013)

When it comes to you tube videos I don't put a lot of stock in their "scientific" testing methods. While I believe most try to do their best typically they are flawed in their methodology. Based on the title of the supplied video we are concerned with strength…

For those interested some good places to start searching.

https://www.purdue.edu/woodresearch/publications-carl-eckelman/

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?oi=bibs&hl=en&cites=3623808499874285255&as_sdt=5&as_ylo=2020&as_yhi=2020


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## mamell (Dec 24, 2015)

He's more comedian, but he hits the mark on several topics. This one? Ehhh..not exactly scientific and it only uses one angle, 90 degrees for say, a box perhaps? If the only thing you'll ever make with wood is a box I suppose it's the best joint. I make several other types of things from wood..cabinets, tables, doors, chairs.. try a spline joint for every joint on a chair. You'll be too old to sit on it by the time you're done i suspect.


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## ManySplinters (Sep 28, 2021)

When did a wood joint qualify as "insane"?


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Don't ya just love a question that has no right answer.


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

> Don't ya just love a question that has no right answer.
> 
> - shipwright


+1


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

I want to know where SMP puts the glue!


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

I was wondering the same thing as Rob. What the heck is he gluing to his wife. I have heard of boob glue but I doubt it works for up to 6-12 months. ;-)


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

might be fun applying it and then constantly checking to see how long it holds!


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Careful Rob, You might get your hands stuck.


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## Sark (May 31, 2017)

Isn't science wonderful? Enjoyed this video on joint strength.

But is it a scientific test? Absolutely. Could it be improved upon? Certainly. But the tests are easily replicated by you or anyone else, and the results are objective and easily understood. That's empirical science in a nutshell.

Unanswered questions: What about my favorite joint which is a butt joint with screws and no glue? What about an interlocking joint? Japanese joinery, how would it compare? How strong does a drawer have to be? What kind of joint is best for chair leg attachment to seat? Or table legs, or door joints, or outdoor furniture, or gates…etc without end? Inquiring minds want to know.

The result of any scientific study is that more study is required. That's certainly the case here.

PS I believe that the dovetail joint failed because the torque applied against a narrow pin (or the tail) split the wood, which you can see in the video. A dovetailed joint with fat pins and tails at the margins would perform much better, I would predict. And that can be the object of another scientific study. Would love to have a failure analysis for each joint. But life is short. Someone else can step up to the plate.


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

We now live in a time where it can all be done by computer simulation, including all the variations of wood density, glue viscosity, time and distance. Maybe even virtual videos of failure modes.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

The best wood joint hands down has to be a basic miter held with 18ga brad nails.


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## CommonJoe (May 8, 2021)

> The best wood joint hands down has to be a basic miter held with *18ga brad nails*.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


A 16 penny nail holds better, just sayin


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Best joint is the one you can do that is appropriate to the job.

I have gleaned vast amounts of very solid information from various woodworking sites for free. Of course some is worthless. I have found about half a dozen to be trustworthy. Bourbon Moth seems honest. Not that I would do everything his way, but he seems strait. Was it a perfect test? Of course not. We live in the real world, not Perfect. That does not say the test was invalid or untrustworthy. It is just one perspective.

FWIW, a dovetail is only strong in one direction. In the other it is just glue. With modern glues, it is more about surface area than how fancy the joint is cut. Fancy joinery is for our and others visual pleasure. Just making a box, staples will last decades if not centuries. I know what it took to knock apart the drawers I was resizing for my bath vanities.


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

> The best wood joint hands down has to be a basic miter held with 18ga brad nails. - bigblockyeti


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