# What wood should I use for a vanity



## andyhardin (Feb 8, 2009)

I'm planning on building a 42" vanity for a bathroom remodel. I want a dark finish on the wood (with a light finish on the inside) so I'm thinking that the grain of the wood won't show much, if at all. With that in mind I was wondering if using something like birch would be acceptable instead of cherry or maple? Also if anybody has any good designs for a vanity that they could send me, or point me to, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks,

Andy


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## Bureaucrat (May 26, 2008)

If you are going to stain it dark, birch should be fine. I'd recommend that you do a LJ search on birch, staining, projects and see what kind of results other jock have gotten.


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## childress (Sep 14, 2008)

Birch is a little more $$ than maple and can have some really nice figure in the grain, which I would not want to cover up. I would say alder. It stains up really nice without having to spray and isn't that expensive.

Check out this vanity I built. It's a cool design that the owners wanted and it is made out of knotty alder with black melamine boxes and drawers.


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## Newton (Jun 29, 2008)

Birch or Maple can be difficult to stain a dark color. If Poplar is available in your area that would be a good choice as it is cheap and easy to finish. Hey Childress….nice vanity!


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## jleiwig (Jan 29, 2008)

Don has it right. Birch will be splotchy with out a pre-stain conditioner. I stained some birch with "jacobean" stain and used conditioner on the top and not on the bottom side where I practiced. The side without the conditioner was very blotchy and not attractive at all.

I don't know that I'd use poplar if it is going to be going into a bathroom with a shower. It has a tendency to warp pretty good under varying humidity conditions.


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## andyhardin (Feb 8, 2009)

Thanks for the recommendation on the pre-stain conditioner. Would a gel stain also work?

I'm kind of limited on what lumber I can get at HD or Lowes. They have birch, maple, and oak plywood with birch being slightly cheaper. As for solid wood, it's poplar, oak, or aspen, I think. I'm not familiar with aspen. Is it known by another name? Can I mix birch ply and poplar or aspen solid wood with good results?


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## dennis (Aug 3, 2006)

You are not limited on lumber. You really need to find a real supplier. HD or Lowes charge too much and have too little selection. Look around for a real wood supplier. Unless you are in the backwoods of Alaska someone around you sells real wood. On some woods the big box stores charge 3 times what it cost me to buy.


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## andyhardin (Feb 8, 2009)

The closest place to me is an hour away and for the small amount that I would need for this project it would cost me more to go there than to HD or Lowes. There are some wholesalers here but they don't sell to the public.

I live in Huntsville, AL and I'm surprised that I can't find a retailer here.


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## indnajns (Apr 3, 2009)

"You really need to find a real supplier. HD or Lowes charge too much and have too little selection. "

I am intrigued with this sentence. I am all too aware of the lousy crap the Big Box Stores sell as "quality" wood. But I also know I can't afford anything else that I've seen. Where do you live and what retailer is in your area?


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## andyhardin (Feb 8, 2009)

The answer to your question is in my post just before yours. I'm in Huntsville, AL and I have yet to find a retailer in this city. I think there were some here at one time but, if I recall correctly, they went out of business. The nearest lumber retailer that sell rough solid hardwoods in over an hours drive away. That seems hardly worth the drive to get the small amount of wood I need, which is enough for doors. drawers, and face-frame.


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## childress (Sep 14, 2008)

Then I would just use poplar and try to find the clearest material with the gel stain like you said and let it sit and penetrate as long as possible. I have also built a vanity out of poplar and ended up spraying the stain on to get it dark and it didn't look all that bad. And yes you can mix the birch ply with the poplar. Even if the color doesn't match exactly, you are not really looking at them at the same time, unless the doors are open. 
Another option would be to use melamine boxes. You never have to finish them.


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## dennis (Aug 3, 2006)

True many of the local guys have gone out of business. Some times a local cabinet maker will be able to get the wood for you for a slight mark up. You just wont be able to go pick out the boards. In Boise Idaho I can think of four different suppliers. You might check out the hardwood center in scottsboro just down the road. Lots of these place sell exotics that are expensive. I had a project out of Poplar about 40 board feet. I ended up getting 100 board feet at the same price homedespot wanted to charge. Just a few years ago we had a small family owned lumberyard that stocked a wide variety of hardwoods. They went out of business when Lowes opened up…and they where cheaper! In you area you might have some small saw mills that supply lumber at a very reasonable price. Talk to the wholesalers they will know someone who will sell you their product.


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## andyhardin (Feb 8, 2009)

The place in Scottsboro is the closest place and it's an hour drive. Trying to avoid going over there, if possible, for a couple of reason. One is obviously the time and distance, the other is the fact that I don't have a moisture meter and I have no way of gauging how dry the wood is so I'm not sure if I can use it when I get home or if it needs to dry some more. With the big box stores, there lumber has been there a while and I'm fairly comfortable that it's dry enough to begin working. Am I totally of base here?


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## dennis (Aug 3, 2006)

The drive is a big deal. Do they deliver? I would not worry to much about moisture. They might even have a meter there. 
Oak takes a dark stain very well.


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## CharlieM (Mar 28, 2008)

Andy, I live in Fayetteville, just north of you. It's a darn shame that there are no suppliers of wood near you there in Huntsville. I have some of the same problem. I have to go to get the wood I want.

I believe there is a supplier in Decatur but that is again a drive, but not too far.

I get most of my wood from Tennessee Valley Wood Products, in Huntland, TN, Prices are good compared to Scottsboro. Their phone number is (931) 469-7777. I'm not sure but they may deliver to you if they have another delivery in Huntsville. I think they deliver to the Arts and Crafts Center on the Arsenal. I'm a volunteer there.

I have used oak and soft maple for cabinets and both stain well.

I'll send a PM to give you some more ideas.

Charlie M.


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## jcash3 (Dec 15, 2007)

Use http://woodfinder.com 
I use acadian hardwoods. http://acadianhardwoods.com If you live in certain parts of the southeast they will deliver for a $20 surcharge. They are $10-$20 a sheet cheaper for birch than HD or lowe's. They also sell to the geneeral public at just above wholesale prices.


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## carlbigman (Feb 23, 2009)

Hi All,

I would never, EVER recommend Birch for any application around dampness, moisture, humidity, or water because it is simply not at all impervious to water. Birch trees are the first to rot and decay on the forest floor when water seeps in. Although Birch is a great wood, the resins it has are more water soluble and that allows Birch trees to literally drink in water within its' inner cells of the micro-structure. Then heating, freezing, shrinking and expanding with soggy water in the wood cells and fibers with seasonal changes in weather starts to rapidly rot these fallen Birch logs away. Just go for a walk in the woods and pick up such a log and watch it crumble away in your very hands. They are usually a soggy mess in a very short time. The bark even peels of like very thin paper, too. This is not only noted in fallen logs, but Birch is also very week when standing, too, and many are the first to snap off in a very rainy season or in these ice-encrusted storms that simply crack their boughs more easily than other softer woods like pine and willow. Poplar is a good, inexpensive furniture grade wood that is harder and more durable than Pine and much less prone to knicking, gouging, and denting. It is often used in carcase construction and then covered with more precious, expensive veneers to make affordable fine cabinetry and household furniture. It takes paints, stains, and all other finishes very well and keeps a keen edge under normal usage. It has no known toxins and is good for making children's simple chunky pre-school puzzles and other children's toys. For kids toys it takes water based paints very well. It stands up very well to moisture with little or no warping in more common thicknesses such are used in furniture building and especially when sealed in some way also. I hope this helps. Happy Easter. Carl


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## andyhardin (Feb 8, 2009)

Carl - is it just the solid birch you're concerned about? Surely the plywood would be fine in that environment.


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## childress (Sep 14, 2008)

Umm, actually, Resin or "pitch" is only found in softwoods (gymnosperms, or conifers) not hardwoods (angiosperms). In fact, as R. Bruce Hoadley describes in "Understanding Wood", resin is present in four genera softwoods-pines, spruces, larches and doulas-fir.

While, I'm not saying that the Birch logs don't rot, I highly doubt it's from the resin, since there is no resin present in Birch. I would think it has something to do with the fact that when they are in their state as descibed by Carl, on the forrest floor, the wood is well beyond it's FSP (Fiber Saturation Point). It not only has all the bound water it can hold, is has a ton of free water in it too. Which I think contributes to it's rotting. I'm no expert in this by any means, just relaying what I've learned over the years while working the wood.

The Birch you can buy, has been dried, which in turn has no free water in it and only a little bit of bound water. It's unlikely that any rot will occur, especially if it's sealed (with a finish) and will do just fine in almost any cabinet application. I think the only real concern is the way it unevenly takes stain.

Will you just hurry up and build this already so you can post pics and show everybody what you decided to do and what you learned? =)


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## andyhardin (Feb 8, 2009)

I don't have any plans that I'm following and this is the first time I've attempted to do something like this. I'm looking at some pictures and trying to get what I can from that.

I'm thinking that I'll do a full overlay front but are there standard widths for the face frame elements?


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## carlbigman (Feb 23, 2009)

I still think that Birch has a penchant for getting water damage unless sealed very well. I go with my gut and what I see in the woods. Birch is not good around water in my humble opinion. I could be wrong, but I would avoid it rather than find out the hard way, for whatever my 2 cents are really worth here. I am certainly no expert about every wood, but I know what it's like outside our homes in the forest.


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

In some areas of the country, I'm in Maine. We have lots of Pine but much smaller amounts in the way of deciduous trees. HD and Lowes do have the lower prices on some hardwoods in our areas. There are two Hard wood dealers within 40 miles of me and they have variety and nice wood but they are more expensive. I work in red oak a lot and can't beat HD's prices. Plywood is another thing. I usually get the stuff I need to be good from another lumber yard. More expensive but the quality is no contest.


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## willmego (Mar 27, 2008)

Different woods can grow in vastly different ways, which is why some woods are very strong in comparison with others, and ability to resist water varies as well. Mulberry for example simply doesn't seem to care whether it's standing in the tree, or lying in a puddle for 8 months as a chunk I've temporarily abandoned because it's too @$%^#$ hard to work and I don't have a bowl adze (can you spot the personal commentary in this post?)

Birch simply isn't THAT strong of a wood, and rots easily. Mulberry happens to rot..well I haven't seen it rot yet. Any of it. I'm sure it does, I just might not live long enough. NONE OF THIS, however, is the point.

Look, we all agree. He should go to someplace else and buy this wood or that wood. HE DOESN'T want to drive over there. Ok, give him advice he can use, before we start going off about price comparisons, as entertaining as we all find that, myself included.

Andy, I don't think it matters much which wood you use. Go with the one that you can afford, and has a grain pattern you most feel like staring at on a bleak morning. Oak and maple are the strongest woods you mentioned you're considering, maple is amazingly hard, and light colored, of course. Oak is beautiful, but you do have to consider it's grain. Those little flecks will tend to darken more than the other wood, which many people want it to do, but you should at least consider how the finished product will look before you bite the bullet. Popular is a really nice wood for all kinds of uses like this, but you will have to select it carefully, as some of it will be streaky. Select nice clear boards with a minimum of green colors would be my suggestion. You might still have to pre-condition it. Aspen is a fine wood, similar to popular.

But that said, yellow birch (don't know if that's what you have) is stiffer on the "E value" scale than oak, and far more than popular. It's specific gravity at 12% is higher than ash, popular, walnut, etc. White oak, hard maple are heavier. And the Janka scale lists yellow birch at 1,260. Popular is 540. Hard maple is 1,450. Ipe is 3,680.

So all of this doesn't mean much of anything. If it were me, I'd use popular for most of it, and custom pour a decorative concrete countertop. If I had to make it out of wood, I'd carefully pick out either more popular or the aspen or birch, and stain and seal it to within an inch of it's life, since at least my counters always get water all over the place. And yeah, you should try to find ways of finding better wood, wood which is not only better quality, but cheaper, and maybe more responsibly grown/harvested. The more creative you get with finding your raw materials, often times the more rewarding and special your projects are. But I'm sure you're gonna be just fine no matter what!


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## bigedm (Apr 15, 2009)

*Your not making a sail boat* that's going float in water most of its life. As long as you apply a good water resistant sealer and finish you should be able to *use any wood you desire*. Whether you have to condition or not prior to staining depends on how evenly the stain penetrates the wood. *Do a test* before staining the project. If your designing this yourself you may want to *lay it out full-scale* (I'll use cardboard, or what ever I have on hand) that way you can get a good handle on scale and decide what *looks good to you*. Be *confident* in your own designs and I'm sure *it'll look great*.

See if there are any small sawyers in your area and if they would custom cut and dry wood to your specification. Ask local artisans, craft people, cabinet and furniture makers where they get their hardwoods. Go to craft shows and talk to every one, you will be surprised at the willingness to help. I have a local sawyer that I can pick out individual logs and have them cut and dried to my specs. I try to select veneer quality logs mostly cherry, walnut, hard and soft maple and some white oak. I pay a little more but have much less waste and am able to match wood in a projects better. Establishing a good report with a sawyer may take some time but well worth the effort.

Good luck, BigEd


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## dhg (Mar 27, 2008)

I'd try the custom cabinet shops in your area. Just walk in and ask if they could order what your want from there supplier. tell them that the stuff from the big box stores is junk. They might have sheets in stock that is taking up room and they might just as soon get rid of it for some cash flow. All they can say is no. Then I'd ask if they know some company that might be able to help you.

Good luck,

Rich


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