# No 7 jointer plane buying help



## Thorbjorn88 (Jan 4, 2018)

I'm getting ready to get a no 7 plane to flatten my workbench and help with a few larger projects I have planned. I'm struggling to decide which to get. At the top of my budget is the woodriver plane at about $300 after 10% off coupon, but I'm tempted by the rockler bench dog plane that's on sale for $239. But the bench dog looks very similar to the taytools and the grizzly ones on amazon for $149 and $88 respectively. Does anyone have personal experience with any of these planes? I'm also open to buying a Stanley no 7 from eBay but I'm worried about getting one that doesn't have a flat sole. Is that reasonable? What would you recommend?


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

I recommend the no 6 foreplane by LN. The jointer plane is too long its probably great for edges on 10ft long boards.
Your gonna drive yourself crazy trying to flatten a table top with a jointer plane.
https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/standard-bench-planes/standard-bench-planes-no.-6-fore-plane-?node=4171


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

I had same dilemma a few months ago. I knew i wouldn't use it much at all after my bench build. Thought about an old 6 or 7. I would only buy veritas or LN if new, but couldn't justify cost. Almost bought a 7 at an antique shop, but it needed a full restore. Then I saw a #29 transitional in perfect condition for $30. It just needed the blade honed. That plane works so good as a jointer and fore plane. The wood glides so nice its less tiring to use than my metal planes. Folowed that up with a 5 and then a 4 and my bench is super flat now.


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

Comments FWIW:

If have already fallen in love with using hand planes, and can afford to buy new tool: Buy Veritas with PM-11 blade. The blade sharpness longevity, and ease of sharpening are worth every cent over price of WR plane with A2 blade. Buying cheaper plane and adding the PM-11 blade makes the WR, or LN planes too expensive. I don't use my LN plane as much lately, as I dread extra time spent fixing an A2 edge if lumber is not perfect and knot damages the edge. Dislike sharpening A2 so much, replaced them all with PM-11, and/or sold them.

Comments about #6 .vs. #7, all sum up to personal preference. I use my 7 to joint any board over 3' long. Less than 3', I use the 6, or even lowly #5 for < 2 ft.

If have not developed a love for hand planes, then spending hundreds on new plane will be disappointing if it doesn't work as you planned. For someone new to #7 or planes in general; pick up an old Stanley, or Miller Falls from fleabay for ~$100, sharpen the blade and learn to use it. 
You will quickly figure out if you want to keep it and upgrade to a PM-11 blade, and/or sell it and break even when done. You almost always loose 20-30% selling a brand new plane regardless of whether is it's top end LN, Chinese made WR, or India made Benchdog/Taytools/Grizzly. 
Another thing to note is unless you buy a high end Veritas or LN, every new plane is going to need some tuning after you buy it. All of the Asia made hand planes rush cast iron seasoning, and even brand new plane might require a little work to flatten the sole. 
Last but not least, tuning a plane helps you understand how planes work. Do not be afraid of this learning. 

Remember to not take forums to seriously, the above opinion and $5 will get a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
Best Luck.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

careful…buying planes can be addicting..









DAMHIKT


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

+1 for a Lie Nielsen #6 or #7 but with a 50 degree frog.

My #5 LN with a 50 degree frog worked wonders on a top with zero tear out. 
Sharp blades fix most everything 










Winding sticks are a good addition as well:


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

Now I wonder if my foreplane has the 50 degree frog. It might because it handles my hardmaple work bench top very nice. 
Ya know what Waho6o9 the high angle frog is very similar to how a bryd insert head cuts in a jointer machine.
Compressing the wood fibers in a chip.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Of the four planes I used on my work top the 50 degree frog worked best.

Nice pic demonstrating the cutting angle to the fibers.


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## Mr_Pink (May 20, 2017)

I have a vintage metal jointer which I like now, but I would go new or get a wooden plane if I were doing it again. Flattening a sole on a metal plane that long is not easy, and I assume that most vintage metal jointers will need flattening.

If you go new, I would avoid a high-angle frog in a jointer. It's not a finish plane. You just need any tear out to not be bad, and that can be accomplished with a standard frog.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

For a #7 I would recommend a Stanley or other used plane to refurb, or maybe the Taytools you mentioned, since like most $ is a factor, and tuning is not hard once you know how (read here). A transition or wooden jointer would be good if you come across one in good shape for flattening, but I prfer a metal plane for edge jointing. The oem blade and chip breakers work fine once properly tuned. Agree you do not want a high angle frog on a jointer - 45 deg and close down the chip breaker to reduce tearout if needed. Might as well get a 4-1/2 smoother (same blade/breaker/frog depending on type) to final smooth the bench.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

I would just find a Stanley and restore it.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

In that picture of my plane til….there are 2 No. 7s….in the til is a Stanley No.7c….type 9. The other is sitting beside the Stanley #8, type 7, and is an Ohio Tool Co. No. 0-7….The #6c in the til is a Type 10, The #5-1/2 beside it is a type 17…..all get about the same usage in my shop…all still use their original irons…except for the 0-7…it was broken, and replaced…..with another OEM iron….


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

I would go with an old Stanley. It will take you less time to recondition one than you will spend planing the bench. Re-grinding the bevel on the iron is usually the most time-consuming step. Don't be obsessive about flattening the soles. On a bench, it should be good as long as the plane is not twisted.

Of Stanley Bailey I have 5 No 7's, 5 No 6's and 2 No 8's in a file cabinet in my shop.

All but 1 or 2 are in pretty good ready to go condition. There is one number 7 which for some reason doesn't plane as well as the others and another which I never sharpened.

PM me if you are interested and maybe we can work something out.

It pains me to type this. Really. I don't want to sell any. But <sigh> even with my 6 children, I can't really imagine needing so many.

-Paul


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## Thorbjorn88 (Jan 4, 2018)

Thanks for the input all. It's good to get some insight. For some more background I've been getting into hand tool working for about a year and so far I'm pretty sure I'm sold on using hand planes long term. I have a craftsman no 4 made by miller's falls that works great, a stanley no 5 that works ok not great, and a veritas low angle jack. So I'm interested in filling out my bench plane's for use but not too concerned about brand or whether it's new or old. The thing that makes me nervous about an older stanley is flattening the sole. It seems like flattening a number 7 would be way harder than a 4 or 5.

For those of you that have flattened a jointer plane, what abrasive do you use that's longer than the plane itself? Do you use a roll of adhesive sand paper, or a grinding belt, or just regular sheets of wet dry and not worry about the seams?

As for the 6 or 7 debate. I feel like an 18" no 6 wouldn't be that much longer than my 15" laj. That said the longest board I anticipate needing to joint/flatten in the foreseeable future is less than 4 feet.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

First off, set the plane down onto something flat….then take your index fingers, one on each end of the plane…

Fingertips at the center at each end….does the plane rock when you press down with either finger?

Fingertips at the corners of each end….diagonally from each other…..again, does it rock any?

IF no to both of these questions, sharpen the iron, tune the plane up, put it to work.

Those wood bodied jointers will "warp" long before the cast iron ones will….what some see as "warp" is merely wear, from almost 100 years of use.

IF you still feel the need to "flatten the sole" ( Stanley machined these flat) would be to buy an 80 sanding belt, cut the seam out of the belt. glue the belt to some flat surface ( like MDF) and retract the iron, and "plane" the belt.

Black sharpie, make a lot of lines across the sole….sand until they are gone…wax the sole, and put the plane to use. Save them feeler gauges for when you are changing the sparkplugs in the car.



















No. 8 in use…









Flattening a glued up panel…









#4 , a #14 jack plane, sitting behind the #8….


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

+1 Don't over think about flat sole. As long as mouth area is flat, and there is no obvious wobbles. Jointer plane will work as intended on large surfaces. 
That said: do want #4 SMOOTHING planes to be mostly flat. But even if you find one tail end corner that lifts a little due that OOPS on concrete floor, the plane will still work as designed. 



> First off, set the plane down onto something flat….then take your index fingers, one on each end of the plane…
> 
> Fingertips at the center at each end….does the plane rock when you press down with either finger?
> 
> ...


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## fuigb (Apr 21, 2010)

I also have used a sacrificed 80-grit belt: use spring clamps to attach it to a bed on my Rigid jointer. Takes not more than 20 minutes, but then I've had luck finding rust-bucket planes that were not twisted to hell.

I get the attraction with buying new, but with perseverance I've outfitted a full arsenal for less than the price of one new jointer. They're out there, but you have to look and know when to walk away from the fools who believe they're peddling Christ's own tools.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

For flattening i have used sanding belts cut at seem, and have also just laid regular sheets of sandpaper cut in half lengthwise, pieces laid end to end on my table saw and duct tape them down on the sides, getting the seem as close as possible. I personally like the purple 3m micron paper in 100 grit.

For wooden planes i just run them on my jointer.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Yep sanding belts are the best way to go. Use a shop vac to clean as iron dust builds up. Depending how out of flat may need to start at 60 or lower. Usually end with 120 - use sheet paper if you want after its flat, your just removing scratches grit doesnt have to last as long.


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## Moai (Feb 9, 2009)

This thing about having DEAD FLAT hand planes soles and workbenches tops, has become to be a snobby, foolish, non-sense obsession…..remember, we are woodworkers and we work with something organic known as wood, WE DO NOT WORK for Isaac Newton, NASA, neither for Sttarret Tools Manufacturing…..

Getting back to your question, I suggest to consider a nice German Wooden Jointer, like ULMIA, E.C.E, or Primus. they are great tools, some of them with Lignum Vitae Soles. My two cents.


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## P89DC (Oct 1, 2017)

I have bought many Bailey type 16-19 and all have had dead flat soles (including 6, 7 and 8) Not a single warped plane in over 25 transactions. And cheap too because everyone says you gotta have type 11 or Bedrocks. Thanks to them the type 16-19 are still reasonably priced and great users.


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## Mr_Pink (May 20, 2017)

Since my experience rehabbing a vintage jointer seems to be an outlier, I should probably also mention that the one I bought had apparently had it's sole "cleaned" by a previous owner using a wire grinding wheel. It's possible that my problems with that plane relative to others were due to someone's ham-fisted attempt at restoration, and are not typical.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

> I have bought many Bailey type 16-19 and all have had dead flat soles (including 6, 7 and 8) Not a single warped plane in over 25 transactions. And cheap too because everyone says you gotta have type 11 or Bedrocks. Thanks to them the type 16-19 are still reasonably priced and great users.
> 
> - P89DC


Not sure if you have been lucky or have questionable "flatness checking ability" :<), mine required some flattening but agree there is nothing wrong with type 16-19's.


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## Thorbjorn88 (Jan 4, 2018)

One more curve ball. What do you think of the veritas bevel up jointer? One advantage I see is that I already have a bevel up jack plane so I could share blades between them to achieve different pitches.


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## MisterPhillip (Mar 14, 2019)

The Veritas bevel-up jointer was going to be my suggestion. It's a really good price for what you get, it has a lower centre of gravity than a no.7 and it'll come with a dead flat sole (and if it doesn't you can take it back). You'll also have the advantage of being able to adjust the angle of attack and close up the mouth should you start getting tear out. As you already own the jack, that seems like the best option to me.

If you decide to go for a used number 7 instead, I'd take the time to find one with a properly flat sole - trying to flatten the sole yourself is no fun, and only a money saver if your time is of no value.


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## KYtoolsmith (Oct 13, 2018)

From my experience refurbishing 100+ Bailey's and Bedrocks, I fully agree that a Bailey Type 13 - 16 can be a great user… My own set of user Stanley's includes two Type 16s. As to flattening, my experience has been that very few needed much work to be flat. Often, I flatten just to remove gouges, scratches or pitting. My preference for the earlier Types is because of how often I've had to correct frog alignment, chip breaker edge contact and lever cap fit on later types. In use, I also prefer the rear handle shape and low front knob of the earlier planes. For me, flattening is fun, and a great use of my time. There is a lot of satisfaction to seeing just how well I can turn a neglected piece of iron into a beautiful tool.

My $.02. The Kentucky Toolsmith!


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## BlueRidgeDog (Jan 2, 2019)

For quality and best price/value balance, LN. Next is Woodriver. After that is a used Stanley from eBay or Craigslist. If I could not find what I wanted/could afford in that order, I would wait till I could.

Personally, I buy LN as they are made local to me and putting my money there ensures that they stay in business, continue making useful and quality oriented tools. For a 10% increase in cost you get a product made by woodworkers for woodworkers, made with a passion for accuracy and perfection.

That said, a #7 is a beast and nearly a one trick pony. Get a #5 or #6. I used a #5 on my benchtop without issues. It is a bench. It is flat for a while, then it is abused and has a valley near where I sit! The LN #6 in 50 degrees would be a tool you use many many times.

Now, if you are milling lumber from scratch without power tools, you may put the #7 to work now and then. I personally like to use modern tools for wood milling, so 99% of my plane work is done with a block plane and a #4. I do get the #5 out from time to time when milling releases stress in wood that needs correction or when fitting drawers.


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## P89DC (Oct 1, 2017)

> I have bought many Bailey type 16-19 and all have had dead flat soles (including 6, 7 and 8) Not a single warped plane in over 25 transactions. And cheap too because everyone says you gotta have type 11 or Bedrocks. Thanks to them the type 16-19 are still reasonably priced and great users.
> 
> - P89DC
> 
> ...


I'm sure you're correct and I'm simply lacking knowlege and ability. What kind of feeler gauges and surface plates do you require to be considered having proper "flatness checking ability"?


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## BlueRidgeDog (Jan 2, 2019)

> I m sure you re correct and I m simply lacking knowlege and ability. What kind of feeler gauges and surface plates do you require to be considered having proper "flatness checking ability"?
> - P89DC


IMHO people overrate flatness. There is flat that is fine for wood working, then there is reference surface flat for machining fine parts. I adhere some aggressive paper to one of my cast iron tops, mark the plane sole with marker and work it till it disappears. Done.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Bandit has some great advice above, as do others. That said, it appears that one big option is missing, and that is "adding" a new blade and/or chip-breaker to an older existing plane. I did this to my very first plane, a Sargent #418(4a) and it has made ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN PERFORMANCE!

Im sure others will insist that original blades are fine, as they are, though they will tend chatter more readily IMO.

My Hock-bladed #418 is 2nd from left below:









And YES, I have a few Sargent planes in my collection









HorizontalMike 
Sargent Bench Plane Identification Guide


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## SFP (Dec 17, 2014)

Just an afterthought on jointing planes. Many people are obsessed with long bed powered jointers. Yet for at least 150 years the jointer of choice for edge jointing all boards was a 22-24 inch hand plane. Hard to think of a powered jointer with infeed/outfeed tables that short!


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

> I have bought many Bailey type 16-19 and all have had dead flat soles (including 6, 7 and 8) Not a single warped plane in over 25 transactions. And cheap too because everyone says you gotta have type 11 or Bedrocks. Thanks to them the type 16-19 are still reasonably priced and great users.
> 
> - P89DC
> 
> ...


The statement "dead flat" means FLAT. Since you cant take a joke, NIST certfied to 0.000001"


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

> Just an afterthought on jointing planes. Many people are obsessed with long bed powered jointers. Yet for at least 150 years the jointer of choice for edge jointing all boards was a 22-24 inch hand plane. Hard to think of a powered jointer with infeed/outfeed tables that short!
> - SFP


You bet! Besides the above #418 I referenced, I also have and old Auburn 22in Thistle Brand handplane, that I have had all my life. Dates to ~1850-1860s as best I can tell. The absolute BEST part of this Auburn plane is that it has a really thick blade and chipper that performs great! FWIW, I actually did use my powered jointer to flatten the sole of this plane, being VERY careful NOT to expand the mouth of the plane too much. You can see that I ended up with 0.1835" mouth opening. Still quite usable.

Oh, and I almost forgot to mention, this plane is amazingly light. In other words, it will not wear you out as quickly while using it… ;-)


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

*To answer the posters question* (LOL)

Yes I have the WR 7. I am extremely happy with it. I'll even go so far as so say gives LN a run for its money.

From what I've read I would stay away from the Bench Dog and Grizzly planes.

And no, I don't feel the need to post pics of every plane I own (LOL)


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## Sawdust2012 (Sep 17, 2013)

Have you considered an old Millers Falls? I have a few pre-depression that have served me well, and are much less than the Stanley equivalents on eBay. Look for a #17 or #22. There is also a #10 smoothing plane.


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## Thorbjorn88 (Jan 4, 2018)

I appreciate all the answers. My questions have certainly been meandering haha. But yeah I've looked for Miller's Falls #22 but since I've been keeping an eye on them, on and off for a few months I haven't seen many non-corrugated soled ones in good condition. My #4 plane is actually a craftsman made by Miller's Falls and I love it.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

I came across a Craftsman #7 the other day on ebay I think it might of been ready to go to work also. It might have been listed for $35 not sure about that though. Hey HorzMike haven't seen you around in awhile.


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## Thorbjorn88 (Jan 4, 2018)

Oh good tip corelz125! That's the same series as my no 4 and it looks like it's in great condition. My only hesitation is I think a corrugated soled jointer would be bad for edge jointing?


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Have a Stanley No. 7c,Type 9 I use when the work get too long for other sized planes…..no issues with the grooved soles…works the same as my Ohio Tool Co. No. 0-7 that has no grooves…can't really tell any difference between them….


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## BlueRidgeDog (Jan 2, 2019)

I have noticed that some folks shy away from the groved soles. Certainly makes pushing the big plane easier, and reduces the effort to flatten.


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

For jointer plane, I like flat bottom, and not corrugated/grooved type. They both work, but:
This Klutz has enough problems keeping the plane at 90 degrees, and can be easy to catch the groove if you skew the plane slightly to reduce tear out. 
Hence I own both types; a flat and grooved versions of all the larger planes (5-1/2, 6, 7, 8). 
YMMV

+1 ==> New cap iron and blade can make a Stanley with original blade and chattering issues work like it should. Upgraded a couple to fix blade chatter, and liked the results so much; all of my larger planes got new cap iron and PM11 blades.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

Like blueridge mentioned it was a lot easier flattening the sole on my #8 that was corrugated.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

"Groovy, man…
"








From the top…









A #3c, a #4c, a #6c, and a #7c….three of these also have patent dates..









The #3c has 3 patent dates…the other two have just 2…all have the original irons.


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