# Face frame for furniture cabinet



## coloradotrout (Nov 30, 2012)

What might be a good way to build and attach the face-frames for this-http://ana-white.com/2011/08/dining-room-buffet-cabinet ?

My version has only 1 middle divider. So, two open bays on either side of the middle vertical panel. I dadoed the top, bottom, sides, and middle divider to create a "box" with center partition. I guess at this point my only option is to build the face-frame (pocket hole screws) and attach with biscuits, or possibly just biscuit on each stile and then each rail individually. It seems there would be a lot of opportunity for error to take a complete face-frame and biscuit and glue the entire assembly onto the panel edges.

What's a typical way to build furniture (vs kitchen cabinets) that have face frames? I've ready some about starting with the frame and building the "box" around it.


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## pjones46 (Mar 1, 2011)

Is the unit going to be painted? Is it free standing or attached to the wall? What materials are you using to make the carcass and the frames?


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## levan (Mar 30, 2010)

There shouldn't be any issue with using biscuits to attach the stiles and rails to the boxes. If you can do it before you assemble the boxes, that would make clamping easier. I have been using tongue and groove for this many years. My preferred method and it works fine. I do glue the rails and stiles to the panels before assembly, making sanding and glue clean up easier. I think a lot of it is just ones preference. You might want to dry fit before glue.
Best wishes 
Lynn


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Some folks Nail on face frames others just glue them on.Lynn's approach works well. I don't like biscuits because of they can expand and telegraph through the sides of the cabinets ,biscuits can be a pain to align. When the sides of the cabinets are not exposed you can also pocket screw them on.


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## pjones46 (Mar 1, 2011)

Many of the production shops, glue and use pocket screws.


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

Yep, glue and pocket screws where they don't show. If you are going to paint it, just glue, clamp and nail it with a brad nailer. For stain grade, glue and clamp. You could drive in a few brads and cut the heads off. Clamp the FF and the brads will hold it in place until the glue dries.

I built something similar (10' 3") but I built individual cabinet pieces and attached them. I don't have room in the shop to build something that big.
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/93006


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## coloradotrout (Nov 30, 2012)

some details..
- it will be freestanding, but the back not exposed, so I've cut a 1/4" deep rabbet to hold the back
- for the carcass - 3/4" mdf (painted - only exterior sides will be visible)
- for the frames - hardwood (natural finish)
- the carcass is built; no back in yet
- the top will likely be hardwood; same as FF
- FF and top likely from ash

@MT - yes that is more or less the same idea, but mine is about 6' wide x 16" deep x 36" tall, and free standing

I'm wrestling with the idea of putting the entire FF together now, with pocket screws, and then fastening the entire FF to the carcass w/ biscuits or just glue. Or is there a better way to affix the FF? Years back I'd just nail on piece by piece - stiles, then tight fit the rails. But with that approach the FF stiles and rails are not mechanically fastened to one another.

I will then need 4 doors; 2 for each opening. I'm thinking to make frame and panel with the frame being ash and the panel MDF painted to match the sides of the cabinet.

So take my original link - removed the center drawer section - and that is what I have.


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

You can probably answer your own question by carefully measuring the carcases. Can you make a one piece face frame that will fit…with maybe a 1/16th or 1/8th inch overhang on each end? If so, I say go for it. Glue and brad nails, a little putty and paint should do the trick.

The pocket screws make the face frame construction nice and sturdy. Once attached to the carcase with glue and a few nails, you have a very sturdy cabinet. I attach the face frame top and bottom rails via pocket screws from the carcase side. They make good clamps.


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## coloradotrout (Nov 30, 2012)

In this case, I want to finish (but not paint) the FF, so sounds like glue or glue/biscuits is the way to go. MT might be spot on-I think I can build the FF to fit the carcass, but getting the FF AND the biscuits all lined-up might be a challenge. I need to decide if I want the FF a bit proud of the sides or flush. In either case, a 1/16th or so overhang can either be left as-is, or planned down flush. That raises another interesting Q-if I paint the mdf sides, but want to apply a clear finish to the FF, is an overhang a better look-or do I plane the FF flush and then possibly paint the mdf side and FF edge the same color? This is a standalone buffet - not a typical kitchen cabinet assembly. Maybe more like a "dresser".

I guess I have turned this joinery question somewhat into a design question. Appreciate all the feedback, this seems to be one of the more active WW forums around these days.


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## Sawdust4Blood (Feb 16, 2010)

I've taken to attaching face frames to cabinets with pocket screws and glue. They're easier (for me) to align than biscuits and stronger than biscuits or nailing. The trick for me is that I build the cabinets with the good side of the plywood facing in and then apply a skin on the ends. Oversize the face frame to account for the thickness of the skin, pocket screw the face frame to the cabinet from the outside of the cabinet box, then apply the skin to the ends covering the pocket screws.

I used that technique on this project


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## coloradotrout (Nov 30, 2012)

Is glue-only an option? This would be face-grain hardwood to edge MDF and edge ply. And I guess a bunch of clamps!! Maybe time to make some cauls! My FF is just a rectangle, approx 67" x 35" with a stile down the middle.


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

You might consider a simple spline and glue.


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## coloradotrout (Nov 30, 2012)

> You might consider a simple spline and glue.
> 
> - RockyTopScott


Thanks, but how would a spline be different than biscuits? I'm concerned about my ability to put the grooves into the exact places so that the 3 stiles and 2 rails all line up. If I did those one at a time - independently - I could see that working, but I was thinking to build he FF as one complete unit and then attach it. 
But I'm open to all options now!


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## coloradotrout (Nov 30, 2012)

> You might consider a simple spline and glue.
> 
> - RockyTopScott
> 
> ...


I suppose I could biscuit the parts independently - test fit, mark, and then join the FF with pocket holes - and then attach then entire FF using the aligned biscuits.

I had been thinking to just make the FF to fit the outside edges and center upon the middle stile, and then assemble the FF. But next trying to get the biscuits to align perfectly seems like it could be very tricky. However, if I individually biscuit each piece of the FF, then test fit, and mark the rail and stile intersections, I can pocket hole those to match the biscuit alignment.

Ok.. am I just not thinking clearly? This seems way more difficult than it needs to be!!! Thanks in advance.


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

Do the cut for the splines in the stiles first, dry fit them and measure your rails. Should fit ok.


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

It's just my opinion, but I think y'all are taking this thing too seriously. Pocket screws and glue will do more than you will ever need. If one or more ends will be visible, a skin can be applied to cover the holes. The screws are just little clamps to hold the frame until the glue dries. 

I was building a wall cabinet (see attached pic) and made a cutting error on the center divider of a 42 inch wide cabinet. Once assembled, I realized the error of my ways and tried to take the face frame off. Couldn't do it. I removed all screws and tried to gently tap the frame. No luck. Then I got a bigger mallet and a block of wood and beat on it. No luck. That frame is still on the cabinet. All of that transpired in less than thirty minutes after the glue was applied.

I cut it in half and reused the good part for a bath room floor standing cabinet to store towels, toilet paper, etc. The rest of the cabinet was patched and hung on the wall in my shop for storage. I had to build a new cabinet for the wet bar project. :-(


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## coloradotrout (Nov 30, 2012)

Yeah, I'm building this as a stand alone dining buffet piece vs a "cabinet". The pocket holes would have to be on the inside, but still visible when opening the doors.


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

I have worked in two shops and everyone has their own way. The first shop I worked in right out of highschool: He attached the face frames together with double dowels and pinned the dowels with 5/8 nails from the back. Then his method for face frame to box attachment was to plane 5/8×5/8 strips and cut, glue and nail them to the length of the sides of the box and one under the bottom. Then he would glue and nail the face frame to the strips which are attached to the box.

The second method, which is better for production was to pocket screw the face frame together. The rails on the side and the bottom stile would have been run through a shaper and the back (box) side would have a 1/2×1/4 groove in it. Then the face frame would be glued and tapped into the box. Finally, from inside we would shoot 1" nails on angle through the place where the plywood box goes into the face frames groove.

Hope this helps.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

I prefer to assemble the face frame separately from the carcass. Drill pocket screws in the carcass - depending on what the project is and visibility of the screws determines # and placement. Clamp FF to carcass and align, insert screws. Remove screws and FF, add glue, install FF with screws providing alignment, add clamps as needed. There are a lot of methods, but I find pocket screws the all around best, especially for unpainted. Brad or pin nails also work well to align for glue, but not as easy to remove and reinstall. A hand plane takes care of areas of excess edge overhang, etc. For painted, apply glue, nail on and fill the holes.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I've used pocket screws, and I've nailed and puddy'd, and I've used biscuits. The pocket screws is what I've used most often. I also assemble the face frame before I attach it to the cabinet.
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com

helluvawreck aka Charles


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