# pvc pipe sizes



## HokieMojo (Mar 11, 2008)

I could use a little help. After a lot of help from fellow LJ's, I bought a brand new delta 1.5 hp DC. It has a 6 inch intake port but comes with a splitter that reduces the intake to 4" right off the bat. I went to home depot to look at PVC and it seems that when I look at 4" pipe, there are actually two sizes, but both are labeled 4". They are segregated so I guess I can stay consistent to make sure that I have pieces that work together, but I want to be sure that what I buy will work with true woodworking accessories.

Can anyone explain the difference between the two pipes? Also, I noticed one is much thinner (wall thickness) than the other and is 1/2 the cost. I'd rather go with this since it sounds like it will suit my needs. I think I'm probably making this more complicated than it needs to be. Any advice would be appreciated.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

One is schedule 40 and the other is schedule 80. Schedule 80 has the thicker walls and is rated for higher-pressure applications. For purposes of dust collection, I don't see any reason to use the more expensive pipe.


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## HokieMojo (Mar 11, 2008)

Thanks Charlie,
That's what I was hoping to hear. So I guess the schedule 40 stuff works well with woodworking accessories?


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## gene (Oct 8, 2007)

Hi! Hokie,
In the plumbing trade, schedule 40 PVC is white and foam-core PVC is white also, same as schedule 40 in size, but used for (drainage only) not for pressure. Schedule 80 is gray. ( I know! Just like electrical, but different) I think you want SD PVC. That may be what you were looking at. It's 1/2 the wall thickness of 40 and a lot cheaper. It is what I have on my system. If SD is not what you were looking at? You may need to check in the department that sells the drain field, underground piping and corrugated piping used for connecting to down spouts and used for solid septic tank drain connections. If you have trouble finding the right fittings that you need? They make hub adapters that allow you to use regular sch. 40 drainage fittings. You can also get the stand off type hangers and supports you need in the electrical department there. 
Good luck and let us know how the new Delta works. I'm waiting on your recommendation before ordering mine.
God bless
P.S. I did ground my system. I know there are different views on this, But made me feel better!


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## freedhardwoods (May 11, 2008)

I used S&D (sewer & drain) on my entire system. The 6" blast gates that came with my ClearVue cyclone fit right on it. I didn't ground my system and it will give you a zap if you get too close to it. I have not only felt it, I have seen the arc jump a 1/4" or more (those hurt). Like Gene mentioned, I have read several discussions (arguements?) on whether to ground or not. I also agree with Gene, if it makes you feel better, do it.

P.S. When you are putting together your system, use either large radius 90* elbows, or two 45* elbows put together. The short radius 90's create too much resistance. I and many others I know of used 2 - 45's because the large 90's are expensive.
Also check around before you buy your fittings. Some places charge twice as much as others. Someone just posted a day or two ago on one of the forums I frequent (can't remember which one) that they found a place to buy 6" wye's for $17. That is about as cheap as you will find.


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## HokieMojo (Mar 11, 2008)

I think I've got it. S&D is the same as foamcore. The foam core was what I was stearing towards till I chickened out for fear of getting the wrong thing. The only thing I didn't really like about it was that it had less options (at HD at least) for the various connectors. Soubnds like there are some workarounds.

Thanks for the responses!

Gene,
Just as an FYI, it will probably be a little while till I truly get overything hooked up for DC. I'm working on a crib at the moment that needs to get done first. Ones that is done, I'll start on the DC. I can tell you about the experience so far. the item was well packaged, seems solid, was easy to assemble, and seems pretty powerful. I know adding the piping will drastically reduce the power, but I'll have to see what happens.


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## Woodchuck1957 (Feb 4, 2008)

If your going to run a ducting system I would start out with 6" for a few feet. Hard to say anymore without knowing what your plans for layout are..


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## freedhardwoods (May 11, 2008)

I don't know all the different types of pvc pipe there are, but the S&D pipe I used *was not* foam core. It was just thin walled pvc pipe. I have seen foam core pipe, but I don't know what it is supposed to be used for. When I built my house and shop, all I ever used was schedule 40 for supply (pressure) lines, and S&D for drains and dust collection. I have never needed anything else.


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## woodsmithshop (Sep 10, 2008)

I have used the s&d 4" for several years now, and no problems, it is best to run wire the full length of the pipe, and ground it also, other wise it could carry sparks from the static electricity and start a fire in the dust, that is what I've been told, so I play it safe, the wire can be run on the outside of the pipe, I run mine in a spiral around it and it works ok.
Smitty


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## douglas2cats (Mar 31, 2008)

Same as David here. I used 6" (and a bit of 4") S&D with my ClearVue and other than being thinner walled, it's identical to Schedule 40. I did see some stuff referred to as S&D at a supplier that had a black plastic inside liining though and I'm thinking that may have been the foamcore type you're referring to. You definitely dont want Schedule 40 though if you're hanging it. It;s way heavier. The Schedule 40 fittings will also not work for S&D. You'll have to make sure you're getting the right elbows & Wyes for S&D.


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## gene (Oct 8, 2007)

Hey Guys!
Plumbing lessons 101

TYPES OF PIPE AND THEIR TYPICAL APPLACTIONS

(Schedule 80 is Gray in color and mainly used for commercial applications.)

#1- Schedule 40 PVC can be used for pressure or drainage applications and has a wall thickness of about a 1/4 inch. The color code printed on the side of Schedule 40, most of the time is either red or blue. The fittings are different though. The fittings for drainage are called DWV (drainage, waste, vent) and they do not make them in a size less than 1- 1/2" and anything 1-1/4" and below is strictly used for cold water pressure applications only. (This pipe can melt if used on Hot water!!)

#2- What we plumbers in my locality call foam-core can only be used for DWV application. They came out with this product a few years back to save cost in manufacturing, plus it does not conduct noise as much when used on drainage, regular schedule 40 conducts a lot more noise. Foam-core pipe is also more brittle and breaks easier. The (ID) or inside diameter and the (OD) outside diameter of foam-core and schedule 40 are exactly identical. The color code on this pipe is usually Black. Uses the same glue and primer as schedule 40.

#3- S&D piping is PVC pipe used strictly for underground utilities such as septic tanks and storm drain connections for down spouts. It has a wall thickness of about 1/8 to 3/16 inch. I do not think this pipe comes in any other sizes larger than 4 inch or 6 inch. The fitting choices for this pipe is limited. However they do make hub adapters enabling you to use schedule 40 fittings. Same glue and primer as schedule 40.

#4- CPVC piping is used for domestic water. Hot or Cold. The pipe is usually beige with a black lettering code on the side and the glue used is orange.
NOTE! (You can not use regular PVC glue on this pipe) this pipe cannot be mixed with PVC. the sizes are slightly different.


5- Schedule 40 Galvanized threaded pipe is for water and air applications. On air lines, always use at least 300# ball valve. This pipe is not used for natural gas because the galvanising can flake and cause blockages in the orifice. Note (most building codes do not permit use for water any more)

#6- Schedule 40 black threaded is mainly used for natural gas and petroleum product installations.
NOTE ( Do not use for air lines) The moisture in the air will cause rust on the interior walls and then can be transmitted to the equipment being used, such as spray guns, etc., etc. You can see this when you blow down your air separator. The water will be slightly cloudy with a rust color.

I hope this helps and God bless


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## Cantputjamontoast (Jan 1, 2009)

You are getting good advice here. I'm not an accomplished woodworker but I have going on 13 years experience as a pipe salesman.

Delta probably has it in the manual but I have to mention static electricity. Do they talk about it? I 'd hate to hear you had a fire and know that I did not mention it because I was being Bashful. Mostly I act like Dopey or Grumpy. Might even change my picture.


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## douglas2cats (Mar 31, 2008)

Gene
I might be spacing out on the number, but is there a Schedule 35? Or some other PVC pipe with a 35 in the spec? When I got my S&D 2 of the guys there were talking about how they only had to stock one type of fittings as the ones for XX35 also fit S&D. They had a pretty large selection of Wyes, Elbows, Reducers, Couplings, etc that are the same white PVC as Schedule 40 and the S&D.


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## Cantputjamontoast (Jan 1, 2009)

There is something called SDR 35. The # 35 comes from the ratio of the wall thickness to the diam of the pipe.
SDR I think means Standard dimension Ratio.

Generally the OD(outside dim ) matches so that the fittings are more universal. SDR 35 is gasketed and generally used for municipal sewer applications. It is watertight (with an allowable leakage, as all gasketed connections have, remeber even a battleship has a bilge pump) to 10.8 psi which is like 20 ft of standing water in a pipe.

There are tees, wyes, elbows for S&D (sewer and Drain). Don't be afraid to call a larger pipe supplier, explain what you are doing and they will help. It won't be a million $ order but they should help you.

I know TMI. Retreating to my crevice in the rocks.

Don't forget to ground for static electricity.


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## gene (Oct 8, 2007)

Doug,
I do know about SDR35. Typicality Green in color. Most of its fittings are white. Not applicable for anything around the house or shop.
As Can't mentioned. Call a plumbing wholesale supply and ask for someone in sales. Tell them what you are doing and they will in most cases, be glad to help you. After all, they need the business. If they act like they
don't, "Well "you do not what to deal with that company anyway. Most wholesale houses will sell to you at a reduced price. They are not supposed to, but most will. However, in most cases, not at the same price as a plumbing contractor would get. They probably have about ten different prices for the same item, depending on the volume of business a company does with them. I have found that Lowe's ( I'm not advertising for them, just from my experiences) is about as cheap as anywhere. Your problem will be finding someone that knows what they are talking about to help you. Sometimes they may not have the selection that a plumbing supply would have either.
Hope this helps!
God bless


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## Bassmaster911 (Sep 14, 2009)

I know I am digging up an old thread but.. What is the best way to transition from s&d pvc to 4 inch flex hose? Thanks


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## 459fitter (Jan 3, 2010)

Bassmaster911,
Rockler sells a adapter http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=20382. about 8 bucks should work.


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## JFobare (Dec 27, 2009)

Hello Everyone! I had another question in regards to this thread….I have all my main runs, up to each machine, piped in using 4" schedule 40. My PVC to hose adapters came in today and of course don't fit (even though I confirmed that they would with Peachtree prior to ordering)! My question…is there a reducer/adapter from schedule 40 to 20 or is there an easier way to connect a 4" DC hose to schedule 40? Many many thanks in advance! 
Joshua


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## dczward (May 23, 2011)

Gene,

What's wrong with using Schedule 35? I got the schedule 20 adapters from Rockler, and went all over Chicago looking for it. None to be found, no one had ever heardof it, etc. Then I found a post that said schedule 35 was the same size, and Lowes had that. It connected to everything just fine. What am I missing ( besides a source of schedule 20!)?


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## Lifesaver2000 (Nov 17, 2009)

It sounds as though your PVC to hose adapter is sized for Sewer and Drain pipe instead of Schedule 40. There are adapters to go from Sch 40 to S&D. Be sure to take your hose adapter with you to the plumbing supply to be sure you get the right thing.

One thing though. I haven't messed with dust collection stuff much, but in other areas I have noticed that when manufacturers make fittings like this, if they are, for example, a dust collection related company, the pipe end of the fitting may not be a perfect fit. Also, fittings for PVC pipe are normally manufactured to fit either on the outside of the pipe, or inside of a fitting, but not on the inside of the pipe. The inside diameter of PVC pipe, especially S&D pipe, can vary quite a bit. But, makers of accessories will sometimes sell items designed to fit inside of a pipe, which can lead to a poor fit if your brand of pipe is different than the reference they used.


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## JFobare (Dec 27, 2009)

Thanks Lifesaver…its def. for Sch 20, I'll check the local plumbing supply tomorrow….neither HD or Lowes had any adapters.


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## dczward (May 23, 2011)

FYI, that Rockler connector I mentioned it this… http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=20383&filter=PVC%20connector for Schedule 20. It fits Schedule 35, which shares the same inside diameter as Sched 20.


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## Lifesaver2000 (Nov 17, 2009)

Ok, I think there is some difference here in terminology. Just to clear it up, I am not accustomed to referring to Sewer and Drain pipe as "Schedule 20." S&D doesn't really come under the NPS schedules. You will see an SDR rating on some S&D pipe (which means "Standard Dimension Ratio") referring to the relationship between the pipe wall thickness and it's diameter.

SDR35 4 inch pipe is the same outside diameter as 4 inch Sewer and Drain pipe, using the same fittings, but is usually heavier wall. Cheaper Sewer and Drain may only have a crush rating (1500 to 3000 lbs are common) and doesn't really meet any particular standard for plumbing use. This is the type of pipe you might see that has holes in it for use in drain systems.

Please refer to this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominal_Pipe_Size

You will see that Schedule 20 is not usually used for pipes less than 8 inch, according to the chart listings.

I only mention this because I see a lot of terms thrown around about pipes when people are discussing dust collection, who then have problems when they go to a plumbing supplier and use terms that the sales people don't understand. Now, I don't claim to know all there is to know, and it is entirely possible that terminology may differ in different parts of the country. The source of my information is 15 years installing sewer systems, and 5 years as a licensed public water system operator.


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## dczward (May 23, 2011)

Thanks Lifesaver2000, I have no doubt a) you know a lot more about this than me, and b) this stuff is confusing. In my research on what to get, I saw several terms thrown around supposedly referring to the same thing. I'm still confused, but at least I know that the Lowes Schedule 35 blue stuff works with the Rockler fittings I got. I'd still like to find a source in the Chicago area for the elusive Schedule 20. Thanks for your info, I've got a lot to learn.


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## Lifesaver2000 (Nov 17, 2009)

Well, my previous post was typed while dczward was also replying. I believe the reference in the Rockler item is similar to what I mentioned in my first reply here, that being that the makers of dust collection items are not using the same terminology as actual pipe manufacturers use. I have never seen Sewer and Drain pipe referred to as Schedule 20 in any reference or catalog I have read that is for plumbing or water supply. Of course I haven't read them all 

Also, if the hose adapter is made to fit inside of a Sewer and Drain pipe, then getting a good fit could be hit or miss, since the inside diameter of this type of pipe varies greatly.

Something that you might consider, if you don't get a fit you like for gluing is to use what is called, in my area anyway, a "no-hub connector." This is a rubber collar with a couple of hose clamps that you can clamp around pipes or fittings that aren't exactly the same or correct size for what you are trying to do. They are great also at allowing a little flex in a connection where vibration needs to be reduced.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

http://home.comcast.net/~rodec/woodworking/articles/DC_myths.html
This link discusses grounding or sheilding or bonding PVC when used in a dust system. This gets mentioned on this blog site about once a month and this is the best source of information anyone has put up here. We have an EE that frequents this blog and says these people are accurate. About all I know. Check this out


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## Lifesaver2000 (Nov 17, 2009)

We keep cross posting! I haven't actually thought about this stuff in years, having been on the ambulance for 12 years now, but I hope I can help out with what little knowledge I have. It is for sure that I won't be helping anybody here with actual woodworking advice for a long time!!


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## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

In my town, Lowe's has HD beat all day on selection of plumbing parts. The Lowe's had the black 4" ABS I used and after measuring ID and OD of what I had from Rockler and what they had in ABS, not a problem at all.

Message me if you are interested in what ABS fittings are the trick to running 4"... eg the 4" to 3" reducer… the 3" side OD is a great ID to go into 4" Rockler Dust Right collapsible hose (with clamp, of course). It all came together professionally and no duct tape or crazy bandaids were necessary.

Good luck.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

I use S&D pipe and fittings. The pipe comes in 10' lengths, is green in color and has one plain end and one bell mouth end. There is a slight difference in diameter between an S&D adapter and a 4" hose. I have a machinist's lathe and was able to turn down the adapter to fit the hose. The OD of the adapter is 4-1/8" so you only have a small amount to remove.


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## JFobare (Dec 27, 2009)

Again I appreciate the feedback….problem solved!
David - the 4" to 3" reducer was exactly what I needed….like you said, perfect fit.


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## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

Glad to be of help. Nice, clean setup you have there.

May I ask where you got the blast gates that fit into the pipe sections ? Are they metal ?

Of all the Rockler parts I have used, the black plastic gates are most likely to be replaced down the road. One already broke, so I glued it back together and added a swivel and extra wall clamp to "isolate" it from stretching the heavy line.

Otherwise, great stuff.


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## JFobare (Dec 27, 2009)

Thanks! They are Rockler's 4" metal blast gates (item #20864)...









When I ordered they were on sale for like a dollar more than the plastic ones.

They fit a little loose in the 4" PVC so I put a thick bead of cauking around it before I slid into place, that and I tried to keep them as close to a fitting as possible for additional support. I figured they should maintain a decent seal…granted the kids don't decide to use it as a balance beam when I'm not around!


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