# Choosing lumber to maintain my budget



## jacobgerlach (Jul 26, 2013)

Hi everyone. I'm a very amateur woodworker in the Boston area, just learning the basics with my first few 
projects. Right now everything I'm working on or planning is simple items for our house (bookcases, etc)

So far everything I've built has been from junky S4S softwood from the big box stores, but I'm excited to 
step up to some real hardwoods from a quality supplier.

I found some lumber dealers in my area and got quotes for small quantities of red oak and maple. Prices were 
in the $3-4/bdft ballpark, with an extra $1-$2/bdft for dressing two sides and ripping an edge.

I have no idea how this compares to other dealers around the country, but I was a little surprised that 
something like a small (35 bdft) bookshelf would run me north of $100.

I don't have a planer or jointer yet, but I've been keeping a close eye on Craigslist for a good deal to come 
along. I've loved everything I've done so far and expect that this will be a pretty serious hobby for me, but 
I don't really want to sink my entire budget on shop setup when I'm brand new. I don't have the time or the 
knowledge to adequately research everything.

I'm also limited to pretty small quantities (which is all I need or have space for anyway). I have to either get wood delivered or buy whatever I can fit in a CRV (I don't have a truck).

Basically I'm looking for recommendations from some of you experienced LJ's on how I can keep moving forward 
while keeping costs down. My wife would be perfectly happy for some of the items on my build list to be painted, so I think that opens some options up.

Are there other species I should consider for my first few projects?
What's a good New England price for common hardwoods?
How much should I expect to may for a basic used planer and jointer?


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

hi Jacob, First and foremost - Welcome aboard!

I'm from the Boston area too - where are you quoted $3-4bdft (I thought it was more in the $2+bdft for maple, but it's been a while since I bought any)? there's Downs and Reader down in Stoughton which have good selections and decent prices, and there are a few lumberyards in the Cambridge/Sommerville area too which I'be checked out. Depending on the size of your project, going north of $100 for a bookcase is not unheard of. Maybe now you'll start to develop an appreciation for the high marked up furniture pieces considering material costs alone. But this is what buys you quality lumber.

As for planer/jointer - if you are short on space, I would substitute the jointer with any of the alternatives - handplane or router with edge jointer fence. I hand joint and flatten one side using hand planes which isn't all that difficult to bring to at least a good starting point. a Planer on the other hand doesn't have any alternatives, and if you get a good planer consider it an investment which will probably keep it's value over time (especially if you buy used) you can find a decent planer in the $200-$300 range on craigslist usually (Delta/Ridgid/Dewalt).


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## rfusca (May 9, 2013)

If you're good with painted stuff, try poplar. I find it more enjoyable than pine to work with, but cheaper than most other woods. 
$4-$6 dollars /bdft ($3-4 + $1-2 for surfacing) for S3S 4/4 red oak is definitely more than I pay - its closer to what I pay for a wood like walnut.

You *can* surface rough lumber by hand with a few hand planes that you can get off Ebay and refurb for pretty cheap - BUT its going to be a lot more work and take a lot longer. I've got a scrub plane, a block plane, a jack, a jointer, and a smoother for probably around $100-$120 for the items and refurb materials. Even though it takes longer, using hand planes is very, very satisfying work - there's just something magical about the sound and seeing the shavings sliver off (its also massively safer).


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## mprzybylski (Nov 21, 2011)

$3/bf for maple is normally what I pay as well in the Chicago area so that's a pretty reasonable price. As you already know buying rough lumber will save you money but you'll need a jointer/planer (or hand tools if you like to sweat) to make it workable so its up to you to decide if its worth the extra $$ to have them plane it for you or buy a jointer/planer. I did the latter and think it was the best decision.

If your wife doesn't mind painting your projects then I'd go with sheet goods like MDF. A lot of people don't like working with it because of the dangerous dust but IMO its super easy to work, cuts great on the TS (I also have a 4512) and if you wear a respirator and clean up after it shouldn't be an issue. It lends itself perfectly to painting and projects like bookcases and such and cost is a lot cheaper than hardwood. If you mess up its also cheaper to fix than hardwood 

Can't help you on pricing of wood in NE but for a used planer I'd expect to pay anywhere from $100-$300 depending on the model (get a DW735 if you can find one, the cream of the crop for portable planers). Jointers vary wildly as well, but again you could pay as little as $100 for the harbor freight style jointer up to around $400 for a good used model. Alternately (and this is what I did) you can look at Grizzly for affordable and new jointers.

Good luck and welcome to the wonderful world of woodworking and LJs. I got the bug two years ago just like you and I love it.


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## mprzybylski (Nov 21, 2011)

The other guys were posting same time as me so I didn't see their feedback but its similar to mine (typing on iPad takes forever). One other thing I also want to mention is that I bought used planer and jointer off of CL initially like you're planning and wished I hadn't. If you're like me and not super mechanically inclined (as I wasn't when starting and didn't really know what to look for) you will quickly grow frustrated with machine setup, especially on a jointer. It drove me nuts and I had to get rid of my cheap jointer and at that point knew the value of a good, new machine (went with a long bed grizzly parallelogram jointer).

The planer was also a low end delta unit that my father passed down to me and it was terrible. Not only a ton of snipe but he scratched the beds and it kept leaving scratches on my boards. Got rid of that and bought a new 735 and I LOVE it. I could have made an auxiliary bed for the planer but quite honestly I just didn't like it and it was old and rusty.

These two tools, while initially a high cost, have saved me tons on buying rough lumber and surfacing it myself. I originally bought from a hardwood supplier but wisened up now and found people through LJ as well as CL who have their own mills and sell much more affordable prices for great product.


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## jacobgerlach (Jul 26, 2013)

PurpLev - Unfortunately I didn't keep my phone notes very well organized: 
I think Downes and Reader quoted me $3.10 for red oak but I either forgot to ask for maple or didn't write it down. They have a flat $35 milling fee for dressing 2 sides and ripping an edge for orders up to 125 bdft. 
Forrest Products in Greenfield (http://forestproductsassociates.com/index.html) quoted me $4.50 for hard maple, $3.25 for soft and can't rip - planing only. 
Holt and Bugabee in Tewksbury (http://www.holtandbugbee.com/) quoted me $2.85 and $3.20, but again I didn't label my notes well and I'm not sure what those go to. They also quoted $1-$2/bdft for dressing/ripping.

The hand plane for edge jointing seems like a good fit for me, at least for now. I see that there's a lot of posts out there about alternatives to jointers, so I'll read up some more on that. I know I also saw at least one "which one to buy first" thread on planers and jointers that had many folks on both sides.

Chris and Mat - thanks for the alternatives (poplar and MDF) for painted pieces. I haven't looked at either at all so I'll take a look.

Matt - your bad experience with a used jointer is exactly what I'm concerned about in buying used tools from CL. I did a quick amazon search for Grizzly - $400+ is not affordable for me right now, so I'll stick with research on jointer alternatives.

Everyone's responses focused on alternatives to dedicated power tools or on used tool recommendations. Is the general consensus to stay away from having the yard mill for you? I'm trying to weigh the time savings for projects I'd like to get done sooner rather than later vs. long term cost and skill building.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Check out some independent sawyers. They are usually a bit of a drive, but will usually make you really good deals. I use a couple of them here in the Kansas City area and save tons on wood.


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## jacobgerlach (Jul 26, 2013)

Russel - my initial attempts to google sawyers failed. Any recommendations on what to put into google or where else to look to find them?


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

your prices sounds reasonable - like I said, not unheard of.

used decent jointers can be had for $100-$200 (like anything, sometimes you have to wait for it to come up). I personally don't work on large enough boards/projects where a powered jointer will really benefit me- so hand planing does just fine in combination with a powered planer (no - I'm not a big fan of thicknessing by hand). you WOULD need to flatten one face by hand before using the power planer (if not already S2S), but you don't have to be anal about it - just remove cupping/twisting, and use planer to flatten/thickness other face, then flip over to clean up 1st face and remove any left pockets/imperfections in it.

is it worth tooling up to mill your own lumber? that depends on your source of lumber, and your time. having the lumber yard mill it for you is definitely a time saver for a one-off projects here and there.

to give you another point of view - here's my case - I got 3 truck loads full of lumber from a shop that closed locally. all rough and smaller scale boards. so for me milling it myself (resawing to rough thickness/bookmatch/etc → jointing → planing/thicknessing) can't be beat as the material is "free". and I can choose to utilize it however I like (thickness). if the cost difference for you would be $100 for rough material per bookshelf, or $130 for milled material for same bookshelf, and you make one of those every few months or so then it might make more sense have the lumberyard mill it for you as it will leave you with more shop space for other things. really personal preference


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## azimmer (Dec 18, 2012)

I'm in Cambridge. Look up Artisan's Asylum in Union Square, it's a neat concept-sort of a non-circulating, very reasonable tool library.

Also I've got a few big boards of 6/4 and 8/4 ash that I'd love to get rid of-I'd give you a deal (PM me if you like).


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## rfusca (May 9, 2013)

You're going to have to spend the money somewhere, and basically the more time it saves, the more expensive it is.
1 Pay the mill - most expensive, most time saving.

2 Get power equipment - large upfront cost, low/medium long term cost (blade replacements and such), saves considerable time over hand work. Limited to boards that fit in equipment and noisey.

3 Hand work - cheapest option if buying used but still requires non-trivial upfront cost. Takes the most amount of time. Virtually no long term monetary cost. Unlimited in board size processing. Can be a considerable workout and need a decent vise and/or way to secure pieces. Buying new, premium hand planes costs as much or more as some power equipment.

Ultimately, its up to you. I do a mix of 1 and 3 and on small projects, I just have the mill surface it for me. For a large project like my upcoming dining room table, the monetary savings will probably dictate starting rough.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

They usually aren't listed like that. You have to ask around. Google sawmills in your area and you might find a few that way or one of them can put you on to someone.


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

Dressed both faces, I can get 4/4 cherry for $3.25/bd.ft.
If I can use the 90/50 cherry it's $2.55/bd.ft.
FAS Poplar is $2.20 
FAS Maple is $2.75

I just found this place near me that does custom millwork. They have thousands of bd ft of cherry, maple, poplar, walnut, some mahogany, all kinds of stuff and they're willing to sell to "the little guy" with a 25 bd ft minimum. All of it tends to be higher quality stuff. The prices above are for 50 bd ft and less. If I order 100 bd ft the prices go down some.

So look around. I didn't even know this place existed until this past week.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

My 'north' sawyer has great price breaks at 100BF, so I always order 110 BF. I have hard maple, some walnut, and some pecan coming tomorrow. The pecan and the maple are both 110 BF, the walnut is only about 5-6" wide 8ft and I only wanted 6 boards so that's 50$. All that plus delivery is running me around 700$. Same deal would be over 1300$ at a local hardwood store. I preselect the wood as well and it looks outstanding.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

As has been said poplar makes some nice furniture, especially if your going to paint it. Even pine is ok. I even like the 2 natural.

Just keep looking and asking. You'll find it. Craigs list is a good spot to check as well, because the small sawmill guys post there once in a while.

Go to some of the sawmill sites, some have listings for guys who own their mills. Just search timberking and woodmizer.

Welcome to LJ's. Keep us posted.


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## jacobgerlach (Jul 26, 2013)

A few guys have commented on the cost and skill of hand planes. I haven't looked, but based on the (terrible!) block plane I got for cheap at the BORG, I'm sure that you can pay anywhere from $15 to $400 plus. Do you guys feel it's not worth trying to hand plane unless you're going to invest big money for the high quality equipment?

As far as the skill aspect, right now I'd rather pay a little extra to have the mill dress for me than spend my time learning to set up, sharpen, and use hand tools. I'd be interested in that down the line, but I've got plenty of other skills I want to build right now.

I think PurpleLev hit he nail on the head for me. The price difference for my first few projects is low enough that I think the best fit for me is to pay a little extra and get my lumber milled. I can revisit this a few months down the road once I have some more experience and a better idea of how much I'll be doing over the next couple of years.

Charlie and Russell - thanks for the tips. I'll certainly be keeping my eyes and ears open and looking for new sources.

I guess one outstanding question - how often do you guys need planing and jointing during a project (after the rough lumber is initially milled)? I'm pretty comfortable with my immediate way forward, but as I start tackling more complex projects (by which I mean woodwork with actual joinery…), I don't want to find myself doing shoddy work since I'm not set up to square things up.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

All of the local mills need a run through the joiner before they are cut to length on the miter saw. If you don't do that you have a heck of a time getting a 90 cut. Plus ripping to width requires a very straight side or it could be disastrous. I have a HF joiner which I got under 200$, works great. I also have the DeWalt 735 planer which comes in handy with locally milled lumber. 
One of the pleasures of using this kind of lumber is that you have an opportunity to do everything yourself, except cut down the tree. When I make a 1×4 it's actually a 1×4 which makes design much easier.


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## rfusca (May 9, 2013)

You really don't need to invest a lot in top end hand planes if you're willing to spend some time tuning up older ones. If you don't want to spend that time, then will be looking in the $100+ category for premium hand planes that are pretty close to 'ready to go' out of the box.

I don't really need too much in the way of planing past the initial point (except cleaning up glue lines and such). But jointing is essential for getting a good fit on things like table tops IMHO. With a very well tuned table saw and a glue line blade, I assume you could rip it on the TS though (but I haven't personally done that).


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## Milo (Apr 24, 2009)

Jacob,

I have had good luck with craigslist and local sawyers.

Also, I've been told it never hurts to ask when you go to a lumberyard to ask what's NOT selling, and see if you can get a good deal on that, if you are not picky.

Usually, I only plane and joint a few times at the very beginning of a project. Once your flat and square, your at the tablesaw and bandsaw.

Good luck!


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

Welcome to LumberJocks

I like poplar and ash to work with for generic woods.


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## WDHLT15 (Aug 15, 2011)

I am a sawyer and advertise hardwood lumber on Craigslist. Another option is to go to the Woodmizer website as they have a feature where you can ask for a listing of sawyers with Woodmizer mills in your area. Here is the link:

http://www.woodmizer.com/us/ResourceCenter/FindaCustomSawyer.aspx


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

I started out pretty much like the OP. Used pre-milled stock because I didn't have the means to do it myself. This limited me to rather small projects due to cost. The idea of going with power tools first is…. to me, and in my opinion… a shortcut. Get some planes and chisels and learn to sharpen them. I don't mean the $400 planes. Just the under $20 planes off ebay or from flea markets. Learn to clean them up and sharpen the irons. And you don't need to start out with a "full set" of planes. 3 or 4 will get you started. Get a scrub, a smoother, and a jointer. A block plane is nice to have as well for those small, quick touch-ups. Get a decent hand saw and learn how to use it. I also got a couple of japanese pull saws, a coping saw. None of this cost me a lot of money nor did it take up a lot of room. Oh and I also have a router and benchtop style router table.

When my wife wanted to redo the kitchen and wanted me to build the cabinets, well….. I needed to upgrade. I had a crappy home owner's table saw. That was the first to be replaced. Then came the planer (deWalt 734)..then the jointer (Grizzly 6" G0654) and a nice old Delta 14" band saw. We saved so much money on the cabinets that it paid for the tools and we STILL saved a ton. And now that I HAVE the tools we continue to save as I can buy rough cut lumber and mill it myself.

BUT…. and it's a BIG but….. this all depends a great deal on what you plan to DO. I certainly would NOT have invested in all those tools for just the kitchen project. You have to decide if you have enough interest to keep doing this AND at what level you expect to be doing it. I'm retired. II have time, but… social security won't start until NEXT year so I'm being really stingy with spending out of my retirement accounts. Ideally, the project has to pay for the tools, whatever that project may be.

I'm also an artist. I need a new easel. My old one is well over 30 years old and beat to hell. I'll be building a really nice, counterweighted one. Probably from maple or cherry. I'm going to build TWO. One for me and one to sell. Easels of the type I'm building sell for $1100 to $1600 factory made. I'm going to sell one for HALF that and I'm confident it will sell quickly. I'll recover the cost of ALL of the lumber and the hardware and still make a few hundred to invest in tools or wood or heat for the shop in winter.

I know this is kind of long winded, but …. again, in my opinion…. this is a PROCESS. You evolve as a woodworker and progressively get deeper and deeper into it as you find your own level of involvement. When you build a dedicated SHOP…. you're in pretty deep right there. 

Until then…. THINK. You'll get lots of great advice here, but what are YOU going to do? How involved do YOU want to get? Don't go spending a lot of money on big power tools that will be rusting next year.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I'd rather pay a little extra to have the mill dress for me than spend my time learning to set up, sharpen, and use hand tools.

I'd look at this from a different perspective. There is more than saving money at stake here. It's a different form of woodworking. It's quit, not nearly as much dust, and requires much less space and power. For a couple hundred bucks you can have a basic set of restored vintage planes ready to go from several folks here on LJ's. I understand it's not for everybody, but if it's a skill you think you want to learn, learn it first. Even if you decide to stay a power tool guy there will be many many times you will use the skill in conjunction with the power tools. Bottom line, with both skills, you just get a better job.

I've still got all my power tools. I still use them, but I find its much easier to grab a jointer plane when I've only got a few to do, then turn on the jointer, turn on the dust collector, set the jointer, and then have to clean up the edges and the associated mess anyhow.

I'm not trying to steer you down a road you don't want to go, but I wish I'd done a lot more with hand tools early on. I did a lot of production work, so I'd still have used the power tools, but there were a lot of times when the hand tool route would have saved a bunch of time for me.


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## JulianLech (Jan 13, 2011)

I think there is a benefit to purchasing some pre-milled lumber. It saves wear and tear on my planer and jointer. 
For some projects I have used poplar and with dyes or stains. You can achieve a finish that looks like fine hardwood. Just practice on a scrap piece of lumber.


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## rfusca (May 9, 2013)

We stained a poplar table top with 'Walnut' and liked it very well although I don't think it came out like we expected. We did use a conditioner first though. But between conditioner and stain, you're going to start paying the cost of a premium wood on some projects.


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## UpstateNYdude (Dec 20, 2012)

If you're just painting most I'd go good DF or poplar if you're staining, ash works too.


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## pwgphoto (May 1, 2012)

Not sure if someone already mentioned this site, but http://www.woodfinder.com/ is a good place to find hardwood dealers/sawyers. Plug in your zip code and what you are looking for and bam. Helped me find a hardwood dealer 3 miles from my house and I never knew they were there. I also have had some good luck finding rough lumber on Craigslist under material.

I also got some great deals on a DeWalt 734 planer for $174 and a 8" Delta jointer for $525 off Craigslist. You just have to be patient, keep looking and strike fast. This means having some money set aside for when a great deal pops up.

Good luck.


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## Jokker78 (Oct 2, 2013)

Dressed both faces, I can get 4/4 cherry for $3.25/bd.ft.
If I can use the 90/50 cherry it's $2.55/bd.ft.
FAS Poplar is $2.20 
FAS Maple is $2.75

good god cherry for less than 6 a board foot !!! I would build everything out of cherry . I love the stuff. I can get red oak for 3.19 a bf milled to 3/4 and squared on one side.. I love me some maple too. it runs about 5 a bf here is texas


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## Jokker78 (Oct 2, 2013)

Dressed both faces, I can get 4/4 cherry for $3.25/bd.ft.
If I can use the 90/50 cherry it's $2.55/bd.ft.
FAS Poplar is $2.20 
FAS Maple is $2.75

good god cherry for less than 6 a board foot !!! I would build everything out of cherry . I love the stuff. I can get red oak for 3.19 a bf milled to 3/4 and squared on one side.. I love me some maple too. it runs about 5 a bf here is texas


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## HerbC (Jul 28, 2010)

You can search for a Wood-Mizer sawmill here


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

Another place to look for inexpensive hardwoods is habitat for humanity stores. One here is called "The Re-Store".


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