# Attach table apron using dado?



## DerekJ (Dec 21, 2015)

Hello! Last time I posted I got some really great feedback so I am hoping for the same here…

I am working on a 16×49 sofa table for my dad's new house. I've never done a table with wooden legs and an apron before so I wanted to check before I made a mistake. I've never done a mortise and tenon style joint so I was wanting to use a technique I already can use confidently.

Would there be any issue with wood movement if I put a dado into my table legs and used that to glue in the 3" wide apron?


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## nightguy (Aug 2, 2016)

I never done it, but does not seem much different then a M&T joint. You just dont have the shoulder, and maybe not as deep with a dado.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

The shoulder is important, it adds a lot of rigidity. The design has been tried and tested over hundreds of years, give it a try before trying to innovate.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

+1 ^. With no shoulder you loose a lot of stabliity and strength.

Many ways to do them: traditional or floating tenons, by hand or machine, Dominoes etc.

If you are routing the dados, you're 1/2 way there!!

Practice on some scrap you will see how easy it really is. Good luck!


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## BinghamtonEd (Nov 30, 2011)

+1 to doing the mortise/tenon. By drilling out the waste, and cleaning up with a chisel, it's fairly straightforward. Do your mortise first, and then sneak up on the tenon size to get the right fit. Leave the mortise depth a little more than the length of the tenon to make sure you can seat it all the way in.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

A dado joint like you suggest will be very weak compared to mortise and tenon joint, there is just not enough glue surface and without the shoulders of M&T to prevent racking the dado joint will likely fail fairly soon. Don't be afraid to learn M&T, it is the best joint for almost all furniture construction. Furniture that is constructed with M&T will last hundreds of years.


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## DerekJ (Dec 21, 2015)

Appreciating all the input, as always. Three more questions for you guys:

1) My aprons are only going to be 3/4" so my instinct would be to use a 1/4" tenon centered in the wood - does that provide enough strength?

2) How deep does the mortise need to be to provide appropriate strength?

3) Glue all surfaces of the tenon? Does glue also need to be on the shoulder?

I will give it some practice and see what happens!


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

Totally agree with the others. If you are going to build furniture, you'll need to learn to do M&T for these kinds of situations. If you absolutely don't want to do it on this build, then the easiest solution might be the tried and true cylindrical floating tenon, otherwise known as dowels.  M&T would be stronger and a better joint and should be part of any furniture builders skill set, but a good dowelled joint is strong enough and a lot easier for a novice to pull off well.

Of the various methods to do that kind of joinery, I would rank them from best to worst as:

M&T
Floating tenon (i.e. Domino)
dowels

*big gap*

pocket screws

I would never use or recommend pocket screws on fine furniture, but they can be used for that kind of cross grain joint with some degree of success.

Edit: Since we were posting at the same time



> Appreciating all the input, as always. Three more questions for you guys:
> 
> 1) My aprons are only going to be 3/4" so my instinct would be to use a 1/4" tenon centered in the wood - does that provide enough strength?
> 
> ...


Two schools of thought on the mortise, one says to do thirds, so 1/4in tenon and two 1/4in wide shoulders. The other has the tenon as 1/2 the total width and each shoulder as 1/4 of the width. For 3/4 stock, that would be a 3/8 thick tenon and two 3/16 shoulders. I prefer the second method on 4/4 or thinner stock, but either one works if the joint is fitted well and doing the thirds is many times an easier and quicker way to go, especially if using hand tools to pound out the mortises.

How deep? Five times the tenon thickness is the general rule, so for a 1/4in thick tenon, it should be 1-1/4 long.

Yes, glue all surfaces.


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## jdh122 (Sep 8, 2010)

I'd say go for the thickest tenon you can in your situation. The idea of making it a third or a half of the thickness is done to avoid making the mortise walls too thin. But since the legs are thicker than the apron this is not a concern - the joint only gets stronger as the tenon gets thicker. So personally I would do a tenon 1/2 inchthick. Although, like JayT says, even if you do 1/4 inch it will hold the table together.


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## DerekJ (Dec 21, 2015)

As always, this has been very informative! I'll give this some practice on Wednesday and be back with questions afterwards!


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## GR8HUNTER (Jun 13, 2016)

> Appreciating all the input, as always. Three more questions for you guys:
> 
> 1) My aprons are only going to be 3/4" so my instinct would be to use a 1/4" tenon centered in the wood - does that provide enough strength?
> 
> ...


1- YES
2- 1" 
3- YES


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> Appreciating all the input, as always. Three more questions for you guys:
> 
> 1) My aprons are only going to be 3/4" so my instinct would be to use a 1/4" tenon centered in the wood - does that provide enough strength?
> 
> ...


1. Yes
2. I always mitered my tenons so they nearly touch.
3. Yes/no


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## DerekJ (Dec 21, 2015)

Thanks again everyone. I've practiced on some scrap and believe I have it down well enough to put the table together this week!


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## ChefHDAN (Aug 7, 2010)

Derek, good advice from above, but at times a mortise with one end open is a stopped dado. Depending on the load for the table I've done aprons by cutting a stopped dado into the leg with the router table and then cut the tenon to fit with my tenon jig. This is how I did my last table project, it was very strong and quick to execute. If you check out HFF.com on YouTube High Falls Furniture in Vermont, he uses a dado blade method and router template trick that is a pretty slick way to do production work, and as I learned long ago there's many ways to skin a cat. That said if I've got the time and it's a piece I expect my children to fight over one day, I go m&t.-best o luck Chef Derek ( glad you spell it right)


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## MNgary (Oct 13, 2011)

Derek, the tenon should be snug on all four sides, not just two.


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## marshallmosby56 (Jul 16, 2016)

Nicely done DerekJ! M&T worked out really well. Glad to hear you've learnt something new and shared your experience.


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## AandCstyle (Mar 21, 2012)

Derek, I have made one or two M&T joints and have never purposely applied glue to the shoulders since they are end grain. I also bevel the ends of the tenons and the edges of the mortises to minimize glue squeeze out. HTH


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## Cooler (Feb 3, 2016)

I have a beadlock floating tenon jig. The starter kit costs about $30.00 and takes 10 minutes to master. It uses an electric drill instead of a router or chisel.

For an occasional tenon it is really the easiest way to do this.

http://www.rockler.com/3-8-beadlock-basic-starter-kit

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_8_8?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=beadlock+jig&sprefix=beadlock%2Caps%2C131


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## DerekJ (Dec 21, 2015)

Thank you all SO much for your tips, tricks and feedback! I'm so glad I asked a simple question because it completely changed the course of the project. I'm really happy with the way that it turned out…. I've posted the project to the LJ forum and would love for you to take a look!

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/267970


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