# Ridgid R4512 Blade Shift/Alignment Problem - Potential Fix



## GrizzlyBagWorks (Jan 16, 2014)

Hey guys, so I'm super new to woodworking and recently picked up a Ridgid R4512. I love the saw but have found that my machine has the all too common "blade alignment while raising/lowering" problem. My particular saw moves .015" to the right when the blade is locked into position after being raised and then goes back to .000" after it's lowered/locked. I've read that other people have even greater movement.

Anyway, as far as I know there is no published fix out there for how to address the blade alignment problem on the Ridgid R4512. I think I might have a potential fix but like I said, I'm totally new to these tools so I might be barking up the wrong tree. I haven't tried anything yet and don't know if it's even a good idea. I'm hoping to get some feedback from some more experienced woodworkers.

*Potential Fix*
The blade shifts seems to be caused by a gap between the trunnion (?) and the gear assembly that is attached to the motor. The greater the gap, the greater the movement. My thinking is that if you turn the machine upside down, remove the motor bracket from the trunnion and then place some washers or shims between the motor bracket and the bolted on gear you can zero that gap out and eliminate the play.

I've made a video showing the problem along with an example of how a shim inserted in between the trunnion and the gear impact the blade shift:










What do you guys think? Something worth pursuing?


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## Blurrytree (Jan 13, 2014)

Grizzly, I found your post! 

I have saw pals coming shortly and am going to modify them to fit my "new" r4512 and also try your idea.

Even when I got the blade zeroed at some heights it still shifted at others (about 0.005") and at 45 degrees was a total mess. I suspect the pals will allow me to get it aligned faster and easier but think your idea will help and perhaps eliminate this.

Do you think that there is any relation between the blade tilted to 45 and extra shifting?

I will report back shortly

Have you looked into this further?


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## GrizzlyBagWorks (Jan 16, 2014)

So I'm starting to think that this "fix" is only really treating the symptom of the problem and not actually addressing the actual cause.

I spent a little more time yesterday looking at the whole assembly and testing it at various angles. When I tilt the blade the gap widens even further. The razor blade that fit snugly in the gap at 0 degrees doesn't even fill the gap at around 20 degrees blade tilt. Once the blade is tilted to 45* the gap is even wider. This accounts for why I was able to "align" my blade at 0 degress but was .020" off on the rear when the blade was at 45. So… something is loose or not fitting together properly.

The offending part appears to be the front guide assembly on the trunnion. Either it was cast/machine improperly or the front guide is bolt on table top askew. When the blade is at 45 degrees I can grab the motor and pull it back towards the rear of the machine, see the gap close and then see the entire front trunnion shift in on that slide.

I'm returning my saw this weekend. If they have a "good one" I'll take another gamble on it but if not I'm getting a refund and will consider the Grizzly Hybrid which is unfortunately double the price I paid, or look into the new Delta at Lowes.


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## Blurrytree (Jan 13, 2014)

You are probably right. I would not pay full price for another one even if it is good (which I don't think exists)

After hearing what you describe I am probably going to tune my saw at 90 degrees and leave it at that. Losing the tilt option kinda sucks but still gives me far more functionality in my workshop (of having no tablesaw).

Thanks for the info!


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## Blurrytree (Jan 13, 2014)

Hey Grizzly, I took the trunnions off and the motor out etc… And looked at it more closely.

I am by no means an expert but it looks as if this is a design flaw for all of these saws. I am not questioning those who have it perfectly tuned but I just can't see how.

I set it on a few angles to view the gap with different strain from the motors weight. The gap where you stuck the razor does not function as a guide at all to keep it aligned and from what I can tell is because there is not much reinforcing it to pull it closed. (More at the front)

So our next best bet is to provide outward pressure such as a shim etc. like you are. I was looking after my kids and trying to do this so I will look closer when I am less distracted. I am thinking that if that gap is reinforced close to the extreme end then it should fix a lot of this but I just can't see how to best do that.

I even contemplated tapping a hole and rigging up some guide bolts that can be adjusted but that seems too experimental. It looks like if we can make a few points of contact (or at least the rear, but I saw some play in the front too) then it should hold tighter… But this just seems crazy.

Here is a pic showing how much of a gap is there and that there is really nothing keeping it together…









Above, you can see the gap










Above, here is the lip I was considering adding some adjustment bolts but am not even going to try that


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## GrizzlyBagWorks (Jan 16, 2014)

Alright so, I went today to return my old saw to HD. They took it back without question and gave me another one, new in box. When I got home and opened the box I was shocked to see that the gap between the gear and the trunnion was huge, like 1/4". I thought I just brought home a worse off model. I was pretty bummed.

Turns out this one is a "good one". Arbor runout on my first was .0015", this one is .0005". No more noticeable wobble on the blade. The blade shift on my last one was .015" at 0 degrees-this one is averaging .003-.005-much improved. Blade maintains alignment at 45 degrees (.005" off away from fence) whereas the other one was .020".

Back to the issue of the "fix".

I don't think the gear is actually supposed to ride against the trunnion like I initially thought. I think when I shimmed it out with the razor blade all I did was take up some of the play that was in the front trunnion sliding guide.

I'd be curious to see images of that gear area from people with "good" R4512s. My suspicion is that they have a gap but it's more like 1/4" and is consistently spaced across the whole area. The gap on the defective models is much narrower because the front of the trunnion assembly is "loose" and it's sagging. AND since the its loose in the front and basically pivoting from that area that would explain why the rear moves more than the front.

Goodluck on yours JK! Hopefully you can shim it and at atleast decrease the shifting at 0*.


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

.005" is on the high side of blade alignment error. I was taught to aim for .003" or lower when aligning.

The 4512 needs a factory recall.


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## sawdustjunkie (Sep 12, 2013)

I really want to get a new saw and considered the Ridgid, but after hearing of these problems, I called the Ridgid support line and they said they aren't even selling anymore saws, Jointers or planers! They said the ones the store have are the only ones available.
I just bought a Grizzly 14" anniversary band saw and really like it. I guess I'll just have to look into the Grizzly and spend more money. Don't know which one I'll get, but it won't be a Ridgid. Have to wait till spring, but I don't think the price will change that much.


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## GrizzlyBagWorks (Jan 16, 2014)

Sorry, I should have clarified. When the blade is raised the rear shifts to the right anywhere from .003" to .005". If I release the "tension" off the hand wheel then the blade goes back to .000". After adjusting the trunnions I have the blade square to basically .001", consistent at all heights. If I forget to release the tension then I'm only .003-5" out, which I'm okay with, especially considering I got rid of the .006" runout that was caused by the old arbor.

Ultimately I got out the door on this saw for $440 after tax using a HF 25% off coupon. At that price I'll take the .003-5" "shift" and just try and remember to back the blade off after raising. If I forget it's only .005" max. Guys with perfectly aligned saws but with as little as .0015" arbor runout, will get a worse cut, so it's acceptable to me.

That said, you're right Nitewalker, they really should recall these things-way too many reported problems. I ALMOST just returned it and bought the Grizzly hybrid but I've only been woodworking for 7 weeks and couldn't justify a $1,000. If I get serious about the craft then I'll sell the Ridgid and purchase a SawStop.


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## Blurrytree (Jan 13, 2014)

Thanks for all the updates


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## canuckMKD (Jul 6, 2013)

I've been considering this saw now for about 2 years, but as I read more and more reviews I slowly started to change my mind. There isn't many options out there, the closest one is the porter cable saw & that one has the scary "plastic elevation gear". I went to the local home depot close to me and they have 3 of them in stock, one is a display model, and the two in boxes have EM1332 and EM1242 respectively. I messed around with the floor model, raised and lowered the arbor and I could see with my naked eye, the arbor shift as it was raised! No dial indicator needed…. needless to say i am very disappointed, now that Ive seen this issue for myself. This completely shatters any hope of getting this saw, now I am for sure going to wait and get the grizzly.


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## GrizzlyBagWorks (Jan 16, 2014)

Have you considered the new Delta that's at Lowes? I saw one in person and it looks pretty good to me. Might be an option.

Your comment prompted me to go check my saw alignment to see if it was still good. Looks like the rear has shift .01" to the left, so I'm going to realign the trunnions later this evening. I'm still getting a pretty consistent ~.005" blade shift but I'm okay with it for now.

What I really want is a vintage Delta Unisaw with a BORK riving knife. I've been watching Craigslist but most people want $650-1100 for some saws in some really rough shape. I'm keeping my eye out though.

Goodluck to you!


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## lateralus819 (Mar 24, 2013)

I bought one of these, had some $ from our wedding and wife agreed to let me buy one. Get it loaded into our small car, bar myself, and get it home. Damn thing had the alignment issue. I ended up waiting it out an a member here remembered i needed a saw and i went to check his out. Ended up with a like new Grizzly 1023 3hp for $600. All i had to do was change the belts and bearings in the motor/arbor..

Just gotta keep an eye out.










Killer saw for a good price.


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## canuckMKD (Jul 6, 2013)

I looked at that delta model on the lowes.com website but I have yet to go see one in person. I live in canada and those aren't here yet in our lowes. They still have just the porter cable one here…. Another option for me is to take a short drive across the border into Detroit and go to lowes over there BUT our dollar is falling and now every US dollar is 1.14 for me… plus I have to pay our dumbass government 13% import tax on top of the 6% michigan tax when I import it back across, so that makes it less worth it…..

I will wait a bit and see if it shows up here, but im sure they will mark it up substantially as they do with everything if its $600 there, it will be $700 here.


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## NormG (Mar 5, 2010)

Glad to hear you have been successful in getting a good saw

I assisted a friend of mine who picked up a Steel City 39950C from a local Lowes, that had been returned. The manager said they had had it in the back since just after the first of the year. He wanted to get rid of it and he offered to let it go for $300, my friend took it. The saw was put together for the most part. So, a truck was rented with a lift gate to take it home. The Miter gauge was jammed in the Miter slot, some hardware was missing, the extension table were not flat to the table. We determined that the piece of index card tapped on the back of the saw with the writing on it was actually the serial number. He was able to locate some instructions online, get the missing/incorrect parts and took it apart, then back together again. Saw runs very nicely, tables are one flat surface and it took about 45 minutes to get the blade square to the table and then the fence included.


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## WoodenRhyno (Mar 28, 2014)

Thanks for the possible solution.

I have the same saw.

But, remember what "the Thousandths of an inch, that are measured" actually are…

.007" equals an average notebook paper thickness.
.003" equals the average human error in setting up an accurate way to measure.

.000X" (a ten-thousandth of an inch) is F'in ridiculous and only critical of Exotic Alloys and Extreme heat Situations.

Neither of those will happen in the Average Joe's garage or shop.

A lot of people don't know what the Data translates to,....in "Real" Life.

The r4512 is a good, affordable saw….. don't let 2 sheets of notebook paper (.014") scare ya.


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

A saw misaligned by .014" will definitely have poor cutting quality and burning, larger chance for kickback, etc.

Maybe not a big deal if you only build things out of pallet wood, but any attempt at fine furniture, or even close to it, will be an exercise in frustration.

The 4512 is not a good saw. It needs a factory recall to fix the alignment issue before someone gets hurt.

@Norm, that was a great deal.
Setup is definitely the most time consuming process of the steel city table saws, mainly because of the way the wings attach.
My 35955 runs very smooth now, but it took quite some effort to get there.


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## gtbuzz (Sep 19, 2011)

"The r4512 is a good, affordable saw….. don't let 2 sheets of notebook paper (.014") scare ya."

Sorry, I'm gonna have to disagree with this one. While the R4512 without the alignment issues could be a decent saw, 0.014" is a huge amount of error. As NiteWalker said, w/rt blade alignment, 0.014 is more than enough to cause burning binding and kickback. There are certainly many woodworking operations where that amount of error would be acceptable - this isn't on of them.


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## WoodenRhyno (Mar 28, 2014)

Burning, Binding, KickBack, etc. is operator error.

With time, judgement, feed rates, saw setup, handling and such will improve.

My post is to put a real value on what the "numbers" mean, or equate to…........not to ruffle panties.

A good, and used BridgePort Knee Mill, that still machines very well, will hold a tolerance of .004"-.009".

Peace Out…...split some more "Frog's Hairs."


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

"Burning, Binding, KickBack, etc. is operator error." 
Signs of a misaligned saw.

For general construction, alignment isn't as critical.
Aligning the blade as close as parallel to the miter slot isn't a new concept for woodworking.


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## ChipBreaker (Mar 3, 2014)

Ridgid sent me a new trunnion after I spoke to them about the issue. They said this would take care of the shifting. I replaced it with the new one. Then aligned the blade. Raised the blade and the problem still exists…

Iv'e had this saw for 4 months now. I will be on the phone with them tomorrow morning. This is ridiculous. Quite disappointing.


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## RibsBrisket4me (Jul 17, 2011)

Dang. That's lousy.


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## PLK (Feb 11, 2014)

They need to refund your entire purchase and pick the saw up for you. You have spent WAY to much time trying to fix their problem. I would be livid!

I'm all for fixing quality control issues by myself, this is company negligence with a known problem.

Paul


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## GrizzlyBagWorks (Jan 16, 2014)

@chipbreaker, did your replacement trunnion have a "II" cast into the rear of the trunnion? Apparently there's an "updated" trunnion out there that is much beefier. I sent Ridgid a video of my blade moving and they sent me a replacement trunnion, but the replacement is exactly the same as the one that's installed in my saw and does not have a "II" cast into it. I never installed it since I figured it wouldn't be an improvement. Sorry to hear you're still having problems.

If you guys think this this table saw is bad you should see the band saw. I purchased the Ridgid 14" band saw last week off of craigslist and couldn't believe how violently the machine vibrated. I replaced the belt, bolted 3/4" plywood to the base to stiffen it up, balanced the wheels, sanded the tires, aligned the wheels, etc. and the thing still shakes like crazy. Turns out the lower wheels is warped. Since I purchased the saw used I don't have the LSA. I contacted Ridgid anyway and they said I'd have to buy a replacement for $60+shipping. I don't know if I want to put anymore time and money into this thing.

I'm starting to think their entire line of stationary tools are junk.


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## canuckMKD (Jul 6, 2013)

I considered that ridgid bandsaw back when I was bandsaw shopping and after reading so many reviews I determined it was too crappy to bother with it. Needed to much modifications and after that you only have a 3/4 HP machine… Did you read any reviews on it? Most people will put a link belt on it as well and that helps out I heard, but for the time, money and effort you could just find a nice used general bandsaw or a rockwell like I found.


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## PLK (Feb 11, 2014)

Grizzly,

http://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/tls/4398009423.html

This ridgid band saw was 3 minutes away from a job I was on so thought I would check out his brand new band saw.

The thing shook soo bad it almost fell over. He actually had the gall to tell me this was normal of an industrial band saw. I left laughing.

I'm sure this is not true of all ridgid products.

Paul


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## GrizzlyBagWorks (Jan 16, 2014)

Ya, I read the reviews and it sounded like most people were able to fix the vibration issues with a little effort so I took the risk. I replaced the belt and unfortunately don't think a link belt will remedy the problem. The issue with my band saw is that the lower wheels is warped so it wobbles like a bike wheel that's out of true. Not much I can do to fix it except replace the wheel. I'm considering it but don't want to have $250 tied up in a saw of the quality.

I've been looking for a vintage Delta and haven't had any luck. I'm keeping my eye out though. I have a 1951 Delta DP220 drill press that I LOVE. I wish all my tools worked as well as this 60+ year old tool.


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## PLK (Feb 11, 2014)

It was the top wheel of this particular saw that was machined poorly that I looked at.

Non the less I don't want to take away from the OP's original post, It's about the table saw.

Paul


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## PLK (Feb 11, 2014)

wink


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## ChipBreaker (Mar 3, 2014)

Grizzly- The trunnion has a "2" on it. Didn't appear to be different then the one that was already on there.

So far it's been unsuccessful on calling Ridgid. They gave me the run around. "Send it to one of our repair shops" I told them I don't want this saw if I have to tinker with it every other cut I have to make. "Return the saw to home depot. They should be able to do something for you.". Then I call HD… They said call Ridgid..

I wont quit until this is settled.


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## ChipBreaker (Mar 3, 2014)

I'm able to take it back for store credit. Even with a receipt. Now the issue is what to get from there now that would be reliable and in the same price range. Cant seem to find something that is comparable in size. Besides online with the Jet.. That is over my price range. Bummer*


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## GrizzlyBagWorks (Jan 16, 2014)

At Least they took it back! That's a victory! Have you looked into the new Delta at Lowes? Looks like it's in the same price point and looks pretty good.


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## ChipBreaker (Mar 3, 2014)

I checked that saw out. I only have store credit at HD. Looks like I will be without a table saw for awhile until I get enough money for the Jet online. :/


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## Jophus (Sep 21, 2012)

I just picked this saw up two weeks ago and assembled it yesterday. I didn't know anything about the alignment issue until today, even after doing some research on the saw. Was this issue address by Ridgid? If so, is there a date located on the box to help me identify whether I have a bad saw or not? I'm bummed out because this is my first "good" table saw and now I read this. Thanks.


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## rantingrich (Sep 19, 2014)

Jophus

I can help you out with your R4512 I have the same one and fixed at least the miter gauge slot Blade alignment issue be glad to help you


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## rantingrich (Sep 19, 2014)

ChipBreaker

I can help you out with your R4512 I have the same one and fixed at least the miter gauge slot Blade alignment issue be glad to help you


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## PLK (Feb 11, 2014)

> Jophus
> 
> I can help you out with your R4512 I have the same one and fixed at least the miter gauge slot Blade alignment issue be glad to help you
> 
> - rantingrich


You quoted 2 people saying you could help. I suggest you post your "fix" so others can follow your fix.

Paul


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## tonyjack84 (Dec 28, 2014)

> I just picked this saw up two weeks ago and assembled it yesterday. I didn t know anything about the alignment issue until today, even after doing some research on the saw. Was this issue address by Ridgid? If so, is there a date located on the box to help me identify whether I have a bad saw or not? I m bummed out because this is my first "good" table saw and now I read this. Thanks.
> 
> - Jophus


Jophus,

Hope you're still checking this… I just bought this saw a week ago, after MUCH deliberation. I'm not a pro, by any means, but I've built for fun for about the past 10 year. (Ever seen Steve Ramsey? I'd like to think I'm like that.) I like things to be as close to perfect as possible even with the small budget I have. That said, after going through lots of adjustments I feel like this saw is cutting dead on every time. Mine is one of the updated number "II" models (stamped on the trunion). I had to adjust everything; riving knive, blade, fence, rails, miter gauge, and on and on….. I do have a VERY slight pull to the right when the blade is going up, but if you read the manual it says something about raising the blade to height and then backing off a little to lock the blade. That little note seems to set the blade at zero every time. It only moves to about .004" off if I don't back down. I'm not building furniture for the queen so it works for me. I think if you really take the time to adjust everything, that you'll be just fine. Don't sweat all the nay-sayers. Good luck!


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## Jophus (Sep 21, 2012)

> Jophus,
> 
> Hope you re still checking this… I just bought this saw a week ago, after MUCH deliberation. I m not a pro, by any means, but I ve built for fun for about the past 10 year. (Ever seen Steve Ramsey? I d like to think I m like that.) I like things to be as close to perfect as possible even with the small budget I have. That said, after going through lots of adjustments I feel like this saw is cutting dead on every time. Mine is one of the updated number "II" models (stamped on the trunion). I had to adjust everything; riving knive, blade, fence, rails, miter gauge, and on and on….. I do have a VERY slight pull to the right when the blade is going up, but if you read the manual it says something about raising the blade to height and then backing off a little to lock the blade. That little note seems to set the blade at zero every time. It only moves to about .004" off if I don t back down. I m not building furniture for the queen so it works for me. I think if you really take the time to adjust everything, that you ll be just fine. Don t sweat all the nay-sayers. Good luck!
> 
> - tonyjack84


Thanks for the reply. I plan on taking off the legs and dust shoot to check the trunnion. Hopefully mine is stamped with "II" on it. I have a Wixey digital gauge and when I zero it out on the tabletop, I have to angle my blade at roughly -3 degrees in order for it to read 90 degrees on the Wixey. Hopefully this too can be adjusted some other way so I don't have to worry about putting too much stress on the machine from over-cranking.


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## digerata (Feb 11, 2015)

tonyjack84: whereabouts is the II stamped on the trunion?

I just purchased mine last week and I can't even get the blade square with the miter slot. Unable to get the rear of the blade to stop pulling in. Grrr… Also had stains on the table top around the holes for the trunion stops that mineral spirits and lacquer thinner won't get gone.

I don't get it. Rigid's hand tools are top notch.


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