# Powder Post Beetle - Extermination in antique/vintage furniture



## bobinn

I own and operate a furniture restoration business in central Texas. I am frequently approached by furniture owners having problems with the destroying effects of Powder Post Beetle in their treasured antique/vintage furnishings, particularly items produced from airdried lumber. I have contacted numerous Pest Control business in my area, and found that they had no solution to the problem. I have tried to "Bug bomb" the problems and "think" I have had some form of success, but had to deal with damage to finishes as result of the "Bombing". Is there… any safe, workable solution to this problem?


----------



## sras

While I have not had a need to try this, I recall from somewhere (maybe here) that heat will kill off the pests. Maybe putting smaller pieces in an oven. I have planned on using this idea on raw lumber pieces. Need to think about the integrity of glues and finishes …
I'm not sure this is much help!


----------



## mmh

Alcohol doesn't leave a toxic residue, but may alter the finish and raise the grain. Boric acid products (Boracide) may work but you still need to use water to apply and penetrate the wood. Cedarcide is an oil that I have been using on finished pieces and evaporates without residue. It's supposed to penetrate the wood and remove all moisture and petrify the wood in due time. It should kill any burrowed insects. You can contact them and ask any Q's about the product. Tell them I sent you and that they really should advertise her on LJ's, as I've suggested this to them earlier with no response.

Meilie Moy-Hodnett, Rockville, MD


----------



## Gofor

Moving companies that ship overseas (like to places like Hawaii, Japan, Okinawa, etc) usually have a source where they can sterilize any wood products that face an agricultural (read that as more stringent than customs) inspection. Two methods are used, both which have the potential to damage antique furniture.

Method 1 is putting the furniture into a fumigation chamber. The chemicals may damage a finish

Method 2 is to put it into a heat kiln that will raise the internal temp of the wood to over 140 degrees for 24 hours. The temps will loosen hide glue joints, etc. ( I think the actual time for the temp is around 4 -6 hours to kill the bugs, but the wood has to be heated down to the core of the thickest piece.)

I don't think any provide any liability for damage to the furniture.

However, beings you are in central Texas, and Tx has a lot of military bases that ship families overseas, there is probably someone not too far from you that could offer more insight. Might find someone around San Antonio, as it has the most bases, or Galveston, as it has a large shipping port.

Go


----------



## Dark_Lightning

OK. Powder Post Beetles need to breathe just like the rest of us. If you were to put the infested furniture in a container and pump in gaseous nitrogen, they'd be dead in short order. The rule of thumb for people is three breaths, you're down, and without resuscitation, you're dead. Note that just using a tight poly bag (OUTDOORS) would be good enough. You can get nitrogen from the welding shop. Or argon, it doesn't matter, as long as it is not oxygen…well, pure oxygen would do the trick too, as us oxygen breathers need it to be in a pretty tight range for life. But under the right (or wrong, depending on how you look at it) circumstances, there could be a fire with pure oxygen, so I'd stay away from that. Since the bugs are inside the wood, you might have to leave it in the bag for an hour or so just to be sure they are dead. Ammonia or chlorine would also do it, and quicker, but I'd stay away from them, as they would almost certainly ruin the finish.

Alternatively, I've been hearing about orange oil for termites, where they buy the farm but you don't. I can't vouch for that, it's a question for a bug person.

Then again, the bug people could put your furniture in a container and pump in Vikane, which is frequently used when tenting houses. 100% lethal in seconds. It doesn't wreck furniture or finishes, either, or they wouldn't be allowed to use it on homes.


----------



## flyfisherbob2000

As a former Fumigator, I can tell you that Powder Post beatles have a very slow respitory system, and can withstand fumigants for a long time. A typical fumigation for termites, roaches and such just lasts about 24 hours, but you need at least double that for Powder Post beatles. Heat works as well, but the damage that results is usually not welcomed. Look for a fumigation contractor in your area, not a pest control company. Pest control companies usually sub out fumigation work anyway. Fumigators usually have a chamber that they can put furmiture in. You might have to wait until they have enough objects to do a fume job, or pay a premium cost to do your stuff alone.
Vikane (sulfuryl flouride) is the fumigant of choice these days, now that methyl bromide has been removed from the market. But, contrary to what AtomJack says, the Powder Post beetles need to be exposed to the gas for a long time, again as much as 48 hours. Vikane will not damage furniture, unless it is sprayed directly onto finishes, and then can do some damage due to the nature that it comes out of the cylinder at a very cold temp.


----------



## FatherHooligan

I have heard where a repeating cycle of freezing and then warming the furniture up kills of the bugs. It is something like three days frozen, three days room temperature and repeat to kill any generations (eggs) that survived the previous cycle. As far as I know it doesn't harm the glues or finishes (as long as you keep the condensation off the wood). Mind you I don't know how often or how predictable freezing temperatures are in Texas, up here we can count on them for months at a time


----------



## Dark_Lightning

flyfisherbob2000, that's good information. I'm kind of surprised that the length of exposure is so long for the beetles. But then, I don't admit to being an expert. It really does seem that a suffocating gas like nitrogen or argon would do the trick, though. I guess I place my lethality estimates on humans, which won't always work in the rest of the animal kingdom.


----------



## RjGall

Bobinn a friend of mine (he's also a Ljs Brian Havens) turned me on to this product called Timbor he swears by it Here's a link … it states its for Powder Post beetles http://www.doyourownpestcontrol.com/timbor.htm the Great thing about it is its safe to use !


----------



## Sawmillnc

If you can raise the temp to 135 for 24 hours this will kill any and all beetles and larvae. This is the minimum sterilization temp.

I do not recommend a fumigation, it will not solve your problem unless it is under vacuum and uses a lindane type substance which is toxic.


----------



## flyfisherbob2000

I suppose the final question is this? Do you intend to make this a do-it yourself kill, or find someone to do it for you?
In the heat process, remember you need to heat the beetles up, not just the air around the furniture. If you have thick pieces of wood, it may take a higher ambient temp to get the core of the wood up to a kill temp. How do you do this? Heat the piece up, hold that temp for as much as 24 hours ? Not something the average guy has the equipment or experience to do.
Same for fumigations. Over the counter bug bombs wont work for what you want. You need the speciaized fumigant to kill Powder Post beetles. Again, not something you can do at home.
Yes, of course fumigants are toxic! That is what is needed to kill the damn things!

The Timberbor sounds like it might work ok on unfinished lumber & timbers, but not of much use for furniture, especially antiques. In my opinion (with a professional background both as a furniture maker & Fumigator) fumigation is the best, safest way to go, providing it is done by qualified professionals. I have seen a lot of heat damage done from the "Bake" method. A major pest control company in Calif. uses a "Blizzard" method, but it works best on the faster resporating insects like termites, ants & such. Again, have to reduce those temps in the center of the wood. 
anyway… sometimes beetle holes add to the character of old furniture & antiques…... right?


----------



## Sawmillnc

Find a local kiln that uses a conventional heating system not DH and can put the whole piece in at once. My kiln could easily handle the piece on a sled and you can get it up to 135 in one day. It may cost you a 100 bucks or so.

http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/directories/sdd.cgi?services=Kiln%20Drying


----------



## flyfisherbob2000

Sawmillnc…... you need to check up on the heat sysyems that are suggested for heat treating antiques. They suggest a warm moist heating system so as not to dry out the wood. Correct me if I am wrong, but isnt the purpose of a drying kiln to do just that, dry out wood with heat? Finding someone that uses the proper type of heating chamber is difficult:

Bobinn….
There are a lot of suggestions here, so a smart man will check the options himself, weight the pros & cons.
Here is one more article in support of fumigation over heat:
http://www.slideshare.net/Alijah18/why-use-vikane-fumigation-vs-heat-treatment-4476826

Some places to contact about fumigations in your area:
http://www.dexknows.com/local/real_estate/facilities_management/pest_control/geo/c-canyon_lake-tx/att/fumigation/


----------



## jiji

A friend showed me this trick. He used a hypodermic needle and injected mineral spirits deep into their holes. He had real good success from that and so have I all tho I just really soaked em down good with the ms. My projects came out bug free.


----------



## bobinn

Thank you all for your response, and input. The suggestions were wide and varied in how to resolve the problem. The most frequently suggested method of climente control (freezing or heating the piece) is not available in my area in that there is no business with facilities, willing to offer their facilities for this purpose. I have approached a couple of business that would be able to take on the task, but all cite liability problems and too, would not warranty their services for this purpose. The next methods, using chemicals that were suggested, seem to be the most economical approach, but again, none of the suppliers have responded to my requests for information. The simplest process suggested, (injecting mineral spirits into the worm holes may resolve the problem, but there were no other users of this method to evaluate the results. Seems, everyone has a suggestion, and I'm sure each of you have either had some form of success in the manner in which you all approached the problem. I will continue to seek remedy for the problem, and again, I thank each and all of you for your response and input. Bob


----------



## Sawmillnc

@ Fllyfisherbob That is one opinion regarding how to dry wood in antiques. Steamy moist air will almost certainly destroy the finish and glue joints in a valuable piece of furniture.

The vikane versus heat treatment slide is full of misinformation regarding the negatives and is flat out wrong on several bullet points especially regarding insects will adapt to temperature. They won't. I have been kiln drying lumber for 10 years and none survive.

There is a difference between warm moist air and the temperatures needed to kill insects. 135 F is considered hot and the minimally acceptable temperature to kill boring insects in wood. The combination of the heat and dry air is what kills the insects.

HOT Dry air for 1-2 days will cause no damage to a furniture piece. If you are concerned with RH in the kiln chamber it is a simple enough task to add a bucket or container of water to a conventional kiln chamber. The evaporative effect will add enough moisture for the time frame the piece is in the chamber.


----------



## flyfisherbob2000

Sawmillnc…. would you guarentee to not damage an antique piece using your process? Most all qualified fumigators that fume antiques, furniture & such do guarentee not to damage the piece,
I have been connected to fumigations for over 40 years now, and as a company we experimented with heat treatments some years ago, but gave up on the process because of damages done to all sorts of things, from furniture finishes & glue joints, to melting of waxes, cosmetics, even damages to photographs & art work.
During that time, we performed thousands of fumigations, and always guarenteed the results. With any process, there are sometime failures, but fumigation always for us produced the best and least damaging results.
I am not an advocate of heat treatment for pest kills because of the track record I have seen, but I think what Bobinn is looking for is a safe , simple method that someone will guarentee no damage. If someone can use heat to do that…. thats great. It seems he cannot find anyone in his area that will do either heat or fumigation with any guarentee. We have all offered suggestions, like any wise person, it seems Bobinn has checked into the options, and will hopefully find a solution to his needs.


----------



## Nomad62

Hi Bob
PPb's are tough little boogers, and once the infestation begins you need to get tough back. Their larvae can stay dormant for years within the wood, only to come out whenever and cause problems. Heat is the only guarantee, but if that isn't possible then chemicals come in next. Applying them to the holes merely kills the bug that may still be in the hole (it may be in your floor now). You cannot see the holes left by the larvae, so you cannot do that to them anyway. Many products, like Timbor or vapors mentioned above, poison the wood so if they do chew their way out they get poisoned and die; this assuming they eat the wood and not just chew it out of the way. The practical approach (I guess) would be to strip the piece of all finish and treat it, then refinish. I use Timbor on my sliced woods, so far so good but it's only been a year or so. Antique owners need to be informed and take their chances if they have a problem, take no liability on your own.


----------



## Sawmillnc

@ Flyfisherbob.. You answered my question regarding why you advocate fumigation.

Want an absolute guarantee on anything buy an insurance policy.

I am an advocate of heat treatment. I am using it on 2500 bf of quartersawn white lumber right now. White oak is the most problematic to dry and can result in severe degradation. The killing of insects is a THE reason for the sterilization cycle at the end except in pine where it is for setting of pitch. I have kiln dried at least 250K bf of differing species and am comfortable with heat.

Low temperature kilns are different than the steam kilns you are probably familiar with and give a better degree of control and whiter brighter wood with less degrade.There are microwave kilns, vacuum kilns, conventional heating element kilns and steam kilns and DH kilns.

You don't state how you treated the wood, what temperature you treated the wood how long you treated the wood, what species the wood is or how valuable the piece is. These are all particular to the drying process and if you throw in a chunk of wood/furniture and turn up the heat you will damage it because kiln drying of wood is a profession not a hobby. My opinion being proffered is to dispel incorrect knowledge regarding the use of kilns.

That said Bobinn.. good luck with whatever avenue you use and my opinion would be to get a liability waiver whatever method you use as chemicals have a way of biting you in the future due to cradle to grave rules on toxins ( I worked as a histologist for 10 years) regardless of the current state of use.


----------



## JeffreyVento

The way of getting rid off these pest is call an pest control exterminator,as they are the only one can remove these pest from your home an can keep your house safe.
bed bug treatments CT


----------



## Muffins

Anything new on getting rid of power post beetles in furniture? How can I truly identify. Will they get into farm of house and new wood kitchen cabinets?


----------



## mattjrogers

Someone mentioned freezing and that does actually work, but the length of time and temperature is such that you would need to find a large commercial walk-in freezer that would let you place your furniture inside for several days (if not more) and the temperature needed is quite a bit lower than 32 degrees. It is all in the USFS literature about PPB, read it a few years back when I had my infestation.

I did use heat and got a 20' shipping container, lined the inside with rigid foam, ran some power to three boaseboard heaters and used a cheap digital temperature and humidity control unit from Amazon. I usually set the kiln temp at 165, because the air temp needs to be hotter than 135. Evaporative cooling takes place as any wood moisture evaporates, cooling the surface of the wood below the air temp. Again, this is all detailed in the USFS literature. I would spray the wood down with water before a kiln cycle to mitigate any case hardening as most of my wood was fully dry, just possibly infested.

I will see if I can find a link to the USFS paper on the subject, because that should be the final word on what works and what doesn't. They don't mess around and use science to justify any of their claims.


----------



## JBrow

Robert Campbell,

Scott Phillips, "American Woodshop", recently re-used an antique piece damaged by powder post beetle that he then installed, I presume, in his home. He seemed satisfied that his treatment of the beetle damaged wood. He painted a product called Shell Guard on the wood. Whether his confidence in this product is justified, I cannot say.

From I discovered about Shell Guard, it is a traditional method for dealing with powder post beetle infested wood. The Shell Guard formula is a borate salt mixed with glycol. My understanding is that the borate salt kills the insect as it contacts or eats (not sure which, though probably eats) the treated wood and the glycol encourages deeper penetration into the wood.

https://www.permachink.com/preservatives/shell-guard

If applied to wood over a finish, I doubt much if any of the borate salt would penetrate. Rather, the salt would appear as a white powder on the surface after the solvent evaporates. The borate salt could then be simply wiped away. It is also not clear that if applied to bare unfinished wood and then a finish applied to the treated bare wood, whether the Shell Guard would interfere with the finish.

US Forest Service information was mentioned by Matt Rogers as an authority to consult regarding powder post beetles but he did not have the link to the information at his fingertips link. This information can be found in the Us Forrest Service work entitled "Wood Handbook, Wood as an Engineering Material". Specifically Chapters 14 ("Biodeterioration of Wood") and Chapter 20 ("Heat Sterilization of Wood") may be what he had in mind…

https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/products/publications/several_pubs.php?grouping_id=100&header_id=p

Also, the University of California Agriculture and Natural Resources discusses wood boring insects including powder post beetles at…

http://ipm.ucanr.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7418.html


----------

