# Workshop regrets...



## darinstarr (Oct 30, 2014)

Hi everyone-

I am a rank novice who has little clue what he's doing currently, but I know that I love building things and that's always been the case. I'm currently working on my various small scale furniture and home renovation projects in half of a 2-car garage, and the opportunity has come up to build a dedicated workshop somewhere in our large back yard.

I'm 37, and the plan is to build a shop that will last me for the next 40+ years. Right now I don't even have so many of the things that are considered "standard" in a shop - dust collection, thickness planer, jointer, drill press, etc - but I know these are things I'll be acquiring and I'm shopping for potential items in those categories now, only if to get an idea for a likely footprint when the time comes to get one, and so I can take that footprint into consideration. I've never used a lathe but I'm sure at some point in the next 40 years I'll pick one up 

My question is deceptively simple: what should I be taking into consideration that likely hasn't even crossed my mind yet? What do YOU wish you would have done differently when building your shop, or what's on your "must have" list for the next shop you build?

A few things that have already been under consideration:

-Size (I can fit a 16×20 building - including setbacks - with no space or code issues)
-Power (I've considered this, but no clue on what amperage I should have run to the shop)
-Flooring (likely going with wood - I'm a personal trainer and my body feels fine, but I still plan on getting older!)

I appreciate any and all responses and I look forward to learning a lot more from this place in the future!

Darin


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## JerrodMcCrary (Jan 1, 2014)

You can never have enough plugs, I guess they are like clamps. I would say have 220/240 plugs even in places you may think you will never use. I wish I had plugs above my work table so I didnt have to bend over to plug stuff in. You probably already thought of this, but I would say plugs. Find a comfortable working height for your equipment. Organization.

I would set the building as close to the line as I could, in case in the future you could add on to it on the other side. Maybe only an extra 3-4 feet but you could use that space as wood storage, or air compressor and dust collector. If you build it, I would over build the floor in it because you never know what equipment you will end up with and this stuff weighs a lot, so instead of floor joists every 16" go every 12", instead of 2×8 use 2×10.

I like to look out windows, some shops have them some don't. They take away from wall space but let in light. A large doorway is very nice. I work out of a 12×24 storage building. I wish I had more lighting.


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## Soonerdg (Nov 14, 2011)

Build the absolute biggest shop that you can. It's easier and cheaper to build it bigger now than to try to add onto it later. If 16×20 is the biggest you can do then that's what you should do. I'm just wrapping up a 14×24 shop build (it's in the workshop galleries if you want to look at it) because that's what I could afford. I already wish it was bigger.

As for power, I'm going to put a dedicated 60A breaker for the shop in the houses main panel. I don't think you need huge amperage in your shop because really you only run a few things at a time. At any one time you'll be running the tool you're using, dust collection, lights and maybe a radio. 60A should be more than adequate. Make sure you add or at least have the option to add some 240V outlets. They don't need to be more than 20A but you can go 30A if you want. Pretty much all of the tools you run on 240V will only draw 8A-10A

My shop has a wood floor but I think I may put down some really cheap laminate just to make sweeping easier.

As for things you may not have considered - lighting! Install as much lighting as you can. i'm goig to put 9 4foot T12 shop lights in mine. Lumber storage may be another. I've not yet figured that one out for myself although I've considered building a small lean-to on one side to store lumber.

Congrats on getting the new shop. i too was in half of a two car garage so I can't wait to have all this space.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

Make all your 110v circuits 15amps and add in a couple 240v circuits. Put all outlets at 48" above the floor to the very bottom of the outlet cover. This allows storage of sheet goods underneath without covering up an outlet.

Use storage trusses so that you can store wood above. Wood storage takes up a lot of space that could be better used for machinery/tables/benches/etc. A drop down ladder to get up/down, and perhaps a small pulley system so you can raise up/lower the wood down without having to carry it yourself. This can be put on the inside or outside.


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## ADHDan (Aug 17, 2012)

On the issue of circuitry, I'd recommend installing a number of separate circuits. I have one 220v circuit dedicated to my table saw, one 110v circuit dedicated to my dust collector and shop vac, one 110v circuit dedicated to lighting, and one 110v circuit with a ton of outlets for everything else. I didn't want to risk tripping the breaker by running my dust collector and a power tool simultaneously on one circuit, and above all else I did not want the lights to go out if I trip a breaker during tool use.

My regrets with respect to electric work are that I didn't extend the "general" circuit around all four walls, and I only installed a single 220v circuit (assuming at the time that my only 220v tool would be my table saw).

Other than that, leave your options open to maximize your use of vertical storage. In my small shop (11×17), I try to use every square foot of wall space for storing lumber or tools, and I hang things from the ceiling/store between joists too. But you may be better off with a bigger space.

Congrats and have fun!


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## ADHDan (Aug 17, 2012)

Also, you can use the Grizzly workshop planner to get a rough setup for your entire "ideal world" shop. You can pick Grizzly templates (or use generic figures) and alter the dimensions to whatever you're hoping to have down the road - tools, benches, cabinets, lumber storage, even cats and dogs - and then play around with the layout to see what works best.

There's probably even some way to print your workshop plan, so you can cut out the tools and play around with the layout on paper.


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## philba (Aug 23, 2014)

Fun topic. I finished my workshop space about 4 months ago. It's essentially a 3 bays of a 5 car garage though no cars will share the shop space!

Power is the biggest issue. I have 3 walls with electrical outlets - on 2 I have quad 120V outlets every 6 feet. There are 3 separate 110 circuits. In addition I have duplex 110 outlets between each of the garage doors. I also have a 50A 240 circuit that I use for several power tools. (50 Amp is for a second electrical vehicle in the other part of the garage.) I have an extra 240V circuit for a heater when i get around to it.

I also focused on making sure there was enough lighting. I have 9 4 bulb 4 ft fluorescent fixtures (36 bulbs total). It's pretty good though if I did it again, I'd give serious consideration to doing 12 fixtures. Don't scrimp on the lighting because as you age, you will need more light.

I'd look to put in a storage loft.

On flooring - I would make it strong enough to handle super heavy equipment on mobile bases. This means that the weight will be concentrated into 4 very small areas. My heaviest tool is about 550 lbs but I would target 1000 lbs to be safe.

Doors - oversize your doors or, even better, use overhead garage doors.

Think about how you will get stuff into and out of the shop. I'd figure out a way to put in an I-beam for a lifting crane. It would be really great to have a way to back a pickup truck up to your shop, put straps under something very heavy and unload it into the shop.

It would be great to have your dust collection vent outside of your shop area. Though, you don't want to antagonize the neighbors with the sound.


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## ADHDan (Aug 17, 2012)

> Doors - oversize your doors or, even better, use overhead garage doors.
> - philba


Oh my god this is so important. I have to wrestle any new tool through three standard doors (and down a 3' wide hallway into a 90 degree turn) before it reaches my shop. I'm honestly not sure if I'll be able to get my new table saw into the shop without removing a wall.


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## exelectrician (Oct 3, 2011)

You can hang outlets from the ceiling so cords don't go on the floor like mine


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## InstantSiv (Jan 12, 2014)

-Sink. I use mine pretty much every time I'm in the shop.
-Room built specifically for dust collector and Air compressor. Keep that crap(dust and sound) out.
-Rec area. Sofa, TV, computer, fridge,... Woodworking is laborious, must have a comfortable space to take a break.
-My dream build would also include an roofed outdoor space. 1 because it's a nice change to do woodworking outside sometimes. 2. It's nice to have a space for dirty/dusty jobs outside so you're not doing that inside.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Darin, you are on the right track with size, build it as large as you're allowed, as others mentioned put your plugs mid way up on the walls. I also have a pier and beem, read up on my details and go through my pictures of my workshop and it'll give you an idea of what you're looking at. I was able to sneak in a 10×10 metal shed in addition to my workshop and I use it for wood storage along with finishing.

http://lumberjocks.com/Blackie_/workshop


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## darinstarr (Oct 30, 2014)

Wow, lots of awesome ideas and feedback - thanks to all so far!



> You can never have enough plugs, I guess they are like clamps.


Ha! Noted, this keeps coming up, I see. Currently I have exactly one usable outlet in the garage, and it's not even on the half of the garage I work in. I spend so much futzing with extension cords it drives me nuts.



> As for power, I m going to put a dedicated 60A breaker for the shop in the houses main panel. I don t think you need huge amperage in your shop because really you only run a few things at a time. At any one time you ll be running the tool you re using, dust collection, lights and maybe a radio. 60A should be more than adequate. Make sure you add or at least have the option to add some 240V outlets. They don t need to be more than 20A but you can go 30A if you want. Pretty much all of the tools you run on 240V will only draw 8A-10A


I figured 60A would be overkill at definitely on the safe side, if I ever have a helper in there with me in the future. What kind of stuff runs on 240V? Everything I own is 120V currently.



> Make all your 110v circuits 15amps and add in a couple 240v circuits. Put all outlets at 48" above the floor to the very bottom of the outlet cover. This allows storage of sheet goods underneath without covering up an outlet.


Brilliant, thank you.



> Other than that, leave your options open to maximize your use of vertical storage. In my small shop (11×17), I try to use every square foot of wall space for storing lumber or tools, and I hang things from the ceiling/store between joists too. But you may be better off with a bigger space.


I saw on Pinterest a very basic version of a panel saw that hangs from the ceiling and drops into place for cuts that I thought looked brilliant.



> On flooring - I would make it strong enough to handle super heavy equipment on mobile bases. This means that the weight will be concentrated into 4 very small areas. My heaviest tool is about 550 lbs but I would target 1000 lbs to be safe.
> 
> Doors - oversize your doors or, even better, use overhead garage doors.
> 
> It would be great to have your dust collection vent outside of your shop area. Though, you don t want to antagonize the neighbors with the sound.


Good stuff. My table saw is by far the heaviest thing I currently have at about 300lbs. Portable (on wheels) but when you drop it into place there is a massive THUD that scares me on a wooden framed floor, so I will be over-engineering that  I was planning on a garage door. And the current site I'm looking at is in the back of the backyard, which butts up to a forest - no neighbors back there!



> -Sink. I use mine pretty much every time I m in the shop.


I thought about this, for hand-washing, rinsing out brushes and the like. Seems like it would be a giant pain (drain line especially) but since there will already be a trench dug for electrical, I guess that's the time to do it!


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## darinstarr (Oct 30, 2014)

> Darin, you are on the right track with size, build it as large as you re allowed, as others mentioned put your plugs mid way up on the walls. I also have a pier and beem, read up on my details and go through my pictures of my workshop and it ll give you an idea of what you re looking at. I was able to sneak in a 10×10 metal shed in addition to my workshop and I use it for wood storage along with finishing.
> 
> http://lumberjocks.com/Blackie_/workshop
> 
> - Blackie_


I enjoyed the gallery, nice work! I really like the idea of an extra building for storage - I was planning on a smallish lean-to closer to the house for landscaping stuff, maybe that + wood storage? The gears are turning!


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## whitebeast88 (May 27, 2012)

welcome to lumberjocks,darin.

i would also consider insulation.thats my biggest regret.when we moved into our house i could have easily popped the plywood off the walls and put it in but now i have it to full and alot of stuff on the walls.

i agree with the roll up door,you can get a roll up thats small like the ones on mini-storage buildings.it'd would be a space saver and not have tracks running on the ceiling.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

240v tools: Depends on if you are going to upgrade in the future. 8" jointers, 3hp table saws, 2hp bandsaws, 2hp dust collectors, drum sanders, etc. Anything with more than a 1.5hp rating will need 240v.

But you will want 15amp circuits for your 120v tools. I trip the breaker a lot from my planer if I plane wider than say 10" boards at 1/2 of a turn per pass.


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Lots of input Darin. Each woodworker has his preferences for his style of work, and that colors the recommendations. My experience has been that things change…preferences, tools, style of work, type of work, place of work etc. I've built my shop as modular and mobile as I can make it to accommodate those changes that inevitably occur.

One thing not mentioned, is a swing arm hung at the center of one wall near the ceiling with a cordomatic on it for a drop cord. This allows almost the entire shop to be covered with a supply of 110V. I also put compressed air in that 1/2" galvanized pipe with a coil drop at the end. Really handy.

You may learn quite a bit more checking out the shops that LJs care to share.
DanK


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## intelligen (Dec 28, 2009)

Everyone else has made a lot of good suggestions, but if I was building a standalone shop, I'd also insulate it well and include a small bathroom (just a toilet) and a utility sink just outside the bathroom.

If you go with 15A for most of your 120V circuits, make sure you also include at least one 20A circuit. I have a small air compressor that tripped my garage breaker 4 or 5 times before I added a subpanel and two 20A circuits in the garage.

Maybe someone already mentioned it, but put your lights on a separate circuit. You might want to put in two circuits for the lights so you can turn half of them off with one switch.

Several of my local woodworker friends run their dust collection and some electrical through the floor.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Darin, my lean-to is on the back side of the workshop between the shop and the fence also inside of the easement, the shop is outside of the easement but the lean-to is in it, but they don't have to know that, I have a 7 1/2' easement.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Rob pointed out plumbing but I didn't include it in mine and I'm just fine, all that's going to do is take up extra space that you will need for your equipment, if you're inside of a privacy fence just go wee-wee in the back somewhere as I do


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## hoosier0311 (Nov 8, 2012)

Like most others said go as big as you can space is at a premium in the shop. I would arrange for a bigger area for assembly and clamp ups. Lots of recepticles. Also an outside area to work in even if a good sturdy movebale workbench that you can roll outside and enjoy the weather. Think about finishing the walls in 1/2 plywood, makes hang cabinets and shelves much easier.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

+1 to hoosier on the plywood instead of sheetrock as I did, I think the plywood would make a better insulator for the insulated walls as well.


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

Well you have a tight space so plan carefully. I'd recommend design that might enable you to go up to a 2nd floor someday. My choice would be plan out your space and think how your materials will move. In the door and stored for a short period, then to the jointer, then to the planer then to the tablesaw. From scratch, I'd do a smooth concrete floor with epoxy covering I'd build the electric and dc into the floor to keep it out of the way. For electrical, plan for plenty of 220. However in a small shop, I never have more that two in action at the same time. One for DC and one for my tool of the time i.e. bs,ts, or jorinter, or planer. I put my tools on a single shared and a dedicated to the dc. If you can aford. I'd run 20A 110 circuits for all other tools. Put your overhead lights on a seperate breaker so when you trip one with a tool your not in the dark. Windows would be nice and either double doors or an insulated garage door. If you can have water that would be great. Finally, don't skimp on the lights. I did my shop (2 houses ago) in my two car garage, and had so many lights it looked like frakenstiens workshop from the street at night. I'd also recommend everything on casters thats not fixed. Helps get it out of the way. You could consider the combo units (planer/jointer) to minimize space too. If you can have that 2nd floor, that would be great for lumber storage. (Cable tv would be sweet) I've got that now and a fridge, I could stay there forever if not for the bathroom  take care.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

I can't understand why anyone would suggest 15amp instead of 20 amp 110 circuits (with 12 gauge wire). Otherwise, it's too easy to be tripping breakers all the time.

I have twp 220v. circuits (actually 3, the third one having a GFCI breaker for outdoor use), one dedicated to the DC (allows 2 hp or more, rather than 1 or 1.5 hp, which is a significant difference). The other (with 2 outlets) handles TS, planer/jointer combo, welder, and 18" bandsaw. I'm thinking about putting in even more 220 outlets so I don't have to swap plugs so often.

My first shop was 16 X 20, and I found it way too small-but then I'm not very well organized (to say the least).


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## Madwood (Jan 17, 2010)

Darin, welcome to LJ's! Congrats on the prospect of a new shop. When I acquired my shop 7 yrs. ago, it was a run down 16×24 garage that was is baaad shape. The only thing I could reuse was the basic framework and roof. I sheathed the walls with OSB inside and out, with insulation sandwiched in between. I did not do the roof though, and wish I had. I don't know where you are located, but in central NY, it gets pretty darn cold in the winter. I use a wood stove for heat and burn anything I can safely burn in it. If I had it to do over, I'd insulate the roof and get a smallish Reznor type propane heater.

Other things to consider:
Paint the walls a light color to help brighten the shop up. I didn't
Use T8 fixtures and bulbs for your lighting. T12 bulbs will be obsolete soon
Stagger your wall outlet circuits. Run 1 outlet on 1 circuit, next one on another circuit and so on. This allows you to run more than 1 tool at a time off the same wall and not trip breakers.
Plan you tool layout loosely. Your shop will be in a constant state of change as your needs grow. You'll inevitably buy more tools, lumber, accessories over the yrs. You'll find out in time that your current layout will be totally different in a yr. or five.

Hang out here on LJs and ask LOTS of questions. There's alot of knowledge and experience here. I've been working wood for 40 yrs. and still learn from this crew.

HTH, John


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

I regret keeping the table saw in the main space for so long. Too much dust and noise for a small area, and DC adds footprint as well as more noise.


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## NormG (Mar 5, 2010)

Ditto all of the above


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

I haven't built a shop, but I have reorganized my small shop several times. A few thoughts:
1. Plan where sheet goods, lumber, and scraps will be stored. You don't want it in the way if your work. 
2. Think about how you like to store/use things. Are you the type that wants everything in its place and out of sight? Or are you the type who does best a when you can see what you're working with? If the former, then plan on cabinets, drawers, etc. for your tools. If the latter, like me, then plan on using wall space for hanging most of your tools. 
3. If you have the $'s, I'd consider installing DC ducting during construction even if you don't use it immediately. 
4. Windows/doors that can be open so fans can be used to disperse dust. 
5. I would keep things open at first-since this is fairly new, find out how you work to know if you want a 10' wide built-in miter saw station, or if that is wasted real estate. 
6. Use the space above you as efficiently as possible-that's where I store sheet goods and long,skinny pieces.


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## chippewafalls (Oct 19, 2014)

Darin;
A workshop that meets 40 years of woodworking. A very tall order. 
My wife and I recently retired and moved to a quitter location. I gave up a 700 sq. ft. stand along shop. I was able to build and 1200 sq. ft. stand alone shop our new location. 
Some of the basic items I wanted:
9 ft. ceilings
Several 20 amp circuits with outlets 4' above the floor with outlets at least every 6 ft.
Ceiling mounted heat source, well insulated construction.
A wall surface capable of holding hangers and mounting items (forget drywall).
Even with a much larger shop, several of my tools are on wheels, a well insulated / level concrete slab is easily cleanable and will allow easy rolling of larger tools.
A 42" access door along with a 9' wide overhead door.

I'm still configuring the space but am able to work on and complete several projects so far.

The bottom line in building a shop is it will never be big enough. Knowing several people who have stand along shops, end up saying the same thing.

Good luck. a shop of any size will provide many years of enjoyment. I would highly recommend moving forward, it will work out.

Al V.


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## ScottStewart (Jul 24, 2012)

A lot of what you need depends on whether you plan to be a more power or hand tool workshop. Any tablesaw that is actually over 1.75hp will require 220v, as will many of the bigger machines such as a jointer, planer, and dc.

for the 110 circuits, they should be 20A circuits to minimize tripped circuits.

I am a huge proponent of having a sub panel in the shop to make future upgrades easier.

How many seasons are you going to be in the shop? Glue needs at least 45-47 degrees to work, and the materials need to be that as well. Obviously the climate in your location will dictate this.

Other than those two things, stuff will change over time as your interests and projects change. I am a huge proponent of mobile bases on tools.


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## darinstarr (Oct 30, 2014)

> i would also consider insulation.thats my biggest regret.when we moved into our house i could have easily popped the plywood off the walls and put it in but now i have it to full and alot of stuff on the walls.


Great point - I had initially thought that going without interior wall sheating was smart, you know, so I could see studs and hang stuff. Sometimes I miss the obvious, like the benefit of insulation and being comfortable. I've seen several people preferring plywood over drywall, and I'm curious as to why. I've done plenty of drywall in the past, and I'm thinking it's greatest benefit is the light color so I wouldn't have to paint it to brighten up the room - or even tape the joints.

Lots of comments on power, which truth be told I'm very comfortable with - plenty of wiring experience in the past as well. I agree with previous posts that a 60A sub-panel is likely overkill and therefore smart (ha!) - I'd plan to run 20A circuits rather than 15's and would probably run a 240V drop or two to random places even though I don't have a need immediately. I can always rip off unfinished wall sheathing to add or move drops in the future.



> Lots of input Darin. Each woodworker has his preferences for his style of work, and that colors the recommendations. My experience has been that things change…preferences, tools, style of work, type of work, place of work etc. I ve built my shop as modular and mobile as I can make it to accommodate those changes that inevitably occur.


Fantastic comment and raises a great point - I'm new enough that I don't really *know* my style yet. Well, I do, and it's scattershot and makes it difficult to finish anything  Mostly because my space currently is raw, cramped, and laid out based on working around other things (lawnmower, bikes, car, etc) rather than workflow.

The back of our lot, where I'm thinking of building, is an 80' wide clear section with wire fencing all around, about 25' of which (depth in from the back of the lot) is already cleared of sod - previously it was severely grown over and I've spent considerable time clearing it out, so the misses doesn't really mind me scheming to use the space. It backs up against a forest and would make a lovely sitting area as well - I'm thinking shop to one side, and a large deck/sitting area that can double as an outdoor work space when needed. I should take and upload some pictures.

Several people mentioned mobility, and I'm glad to hear this. My most recent project was a rolling miter saw cart with fold down wings (10' capacity when fully extended) - I'm a big fan of being able to take what I need where I need it, so that trend will likely pervade through the rest of the shop.



> I regret keeping the table saw in the main space for so long. Too much dust and noise for a small area, and DC adds footprint as well as more noise.


Where else would the table saw go? Would you partition off a separate area for it?

For the record, I'm in Knoxville, TN - doesn't get super harsh here (though snow is predicted for Saturday - ugh!) but cold enough to make things difficult. I remember trying to finish a jewelry box for my fiancee in January and I could only work in the garage for 30 minute stretches before my hands started to go numb! Also, code limits me to a height of 15' for accessory buildings, so it will need to be 1 story though a loft is certainly doable.

Thanks again to everyone for the amazing suggestions, what an awesome community!

Darin


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

As for walls, consider OSB-heck of a lot cheaper than plywood.


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

1. with a shop that size (similar to mine) put all your tools on lockable rubber wheels. Two reasons. One to pull them out to use them. Two, to pull them away from the wall to clean. All my stuff is on these very good quality but inexpensive casters from HF

2. Shop lights: Lots of ways to do this but a good method is to get the metal 4 ft lights meant to go in hung ceilings. Screw them right up to the ceiling and enclose them with wood if you want. They come with diffusers that throw good light and are meant for inside homes so they don't buzz. I get mine from home depot. You can also decide to put 2 or 4 bulbs in each one.

3. My shop was made from an existing building and the ceiling height is about 7 ft. If you're building a new shop, opt for at least a foot higher. Gives you a feeling of spaciousness and lets you swing boards around more easily.

4. with limited room consider this: I started out making a wood workers bench and other against the wall work spaces and a flip up outfeed table for the saw…. After a few years I decided to get rid of them all and make one 5×5 ft assembly bench with storage that was a good height for assembly and also as an outfeed table for the saw. Of course it's on casters. I found that those dreams of planing everything by hand and such was a romantic notion of what I would do. I ended up doing most of the stuff with power tools and needed a glueup/assembly table more than anything.

And most of the things already mentioned above….


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## ChuckC (May 13, 2010)

> I can t understand why anyone would suggest 15amp instead of 20 amp 110 circuits (with 12 gauge wire). Otherwise, it s too easy to be tripping breakers all the time.
> 
> - runswithscissors


+1. 12 gauge wire with 20 amp breakers. Run a separate line for the DC too.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

I just realized that I said 15A instead of 20. For whatever reason earlier today I was having a brain fart and thought normal circuits were 10A. My mistake. Yes, I trip my 15A breaker with the planer on occasion.

Make sure whatever circuit your tools are on is different from the lights. It sucks having to pull out a flashlight because you tripped the breaker.


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## cherrywoodworker (Oct 30, 2014)

If you do 16' w x 20'L, door and if you want garage door on your shop. Make sure put it on the side which will make it look big. I would do electricity, it make it so much easier. All my plugs sit up above workbench height, so there is no bending over. If you are looking for some tools to add, check out Craigslist. You can find some pretty deals on Vintage Craftsman Tools. I picked up a 1963 Craftsman Radial Arm Saw for $50. Works good, but didn't like the stand it is on. You could load up on some nice Craftsman Vintage that works, for a price of some new toys that won't last as long. Just have to pick and choose what you like.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

My shop is 16×20 and would honestly be big enough if it weren't cluttered. Having a bigger shop would be nicer but I don't 'need' bigger.

Tall ceilings, you need room to maneuver up if you ever build furniture.

Power outlets everywhere, 1-2 feet apart. Put some in the floor if you can swing it. Multiple 220v lines.

Build with dust collection in mind.

An area for a compressor and dust collector that can be closed off from the shop to quiet the noise.

Windows - lots of natural light.

Plumbing. A sink and urinal at least.

Dedicated finishing area.

Lumber storage outside the shop. Otherwise before you know it, you'll be up to your ears in wood and it'll just be in your way. Consider an outdoor panel saw against the side of the building if you will use sheet goods.

Insulation and HVAC.


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## Yonak (Mar 27, 2014)

I had plans to build a 16 X 20 work building last year. Many people told me to make it 20 X 20 because it doesn't cost that much more for the significant extra space. Well, I went ahead and made it larger. I have no regrets and I'm glad I did. ..But to tell the truth, I don't know if I spent a lot more or a little more as I don't know how much I would have spent .. I only know how much I spent. Anyway, I'm happy I went larger. It definitely has come in handy.

My only regret : I wish I had gone taller in my shop so I'd have more room for overhead storage and more room to maneuver long boards. ..But with a taller ceiling, I don't know if I'd need more lighting.


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## cherrywoodworker (Oct 30, 2014)

Already told the wife the next place we get, I want atleast 20×20. I have a 8×16 and it is cramp.


> I had plans to build a 16 X 20 work building last year. Many people told me to make it 20 X 20 because it doesn t cost that much more for the significant extra space. Well, I went ahead and made it larger. I have no regrets and I m glad I did. ..But to tell the truth, I don t know if I spent a lot more or a little more as I don t know how much I would have spent .. I only know how much I spent. Anyway, I m happy I went larger. It definitely has come in handy.
> 
> - Yonak


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

My wife keeps talking about building a bigger shop for me. It's a nice thought but I wish she'd quit talking about it because we can't afford it right now. Someday definitely.


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## cherrywoodworker (Oct 30, 2014)

Save your money and be resourceful. If you can use reclaimed lumber, go for it. That is less money out of your pocket. 


> My wife keeps talking about building a bigger shop for me. It s a nice thought but I wish she d quit talking about it because we can t afford it right now. Someday definitely.
> 
> - Rick M.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

On wheels is a great suggestion for a TS. Roll out when needed, out of the way when not.

I'm very fortunate to have an area for it altogether separate from my main workspace.


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## darinstarr (Oct 30, 2014)

So this is the miter saw cart I built about a month ago - this is indicative of my style and preference - I'm very OCD and organized, so I took this plan from FWW that initially just had a shop vac area underneath and immediately thought TOOL STORAGE - so I added the pull-out pegboard on drawer slides, a fastener tray, and places for drills and a circular saw. The idea being that if I'm doing renovation work I want everything I need to roll with me around to the worksite. The saw is recessed enough I should be able to use this cart for a jointer and planer as well, for the infeed and outfeed support.












> Build with dust collection in mind.
> 
> Dedicated finishing area.


Rick, can you elaborate on these 2 items? With the dust collection, do you mean planning where to run the ductwork? Would the finishing area be some place with a flat surface that can be curtained off from the main area to minimize dust flow?

Also, thinking about a closet/thing for the DC and AC - are there space concerns with regard to heat or airflow? I've never had a DC so it might as well be a spaceship to me as far what it needs to operate well. Also, I'm in the habit of emptying the AC tank after each use, if it's in a closet I need to make sure that's still easily accessible - or is this something that isn't really necessary?


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## ChrisK (Dec 18, 2009)

You want your 115V and 220V outlets to be 20 Amps. The 12awg wire will help reduce any voltage sag if you are running your lines any distance. The bigger tools that need to spin up a blade will appreciate the ability to start with dropping the line voltage. It will cost a few extra dollars per circuit. Will you need some sort of heat or AC? Are you ever going to get a welder? 220V 30A or 40A circuit.

Make sure your lights are on a separate circuit. Lots of lights, and maybe a few more. I like the 48" long fluorescents ones. You can place them so the light overlaps and helps eliminate shadows. LED might a good option now.

+1 on oversize the doors. Will you need a ramp at the door? Wall space for stuff. Windows are nice until you have to hang something over it. Higher ceilings are nice to. I am sure i will think of more things. Have fun.


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

the little things you'll find out over time and redo them… i.e.

I'm on my third miter saw station. I think I finally got it right. It is mobil (the others weren't) and it has flip up wings. The point: When using a miter saw.. say with an 8 ft board. The good piece is always on the left side where the line on the board is where you can see the blade hitting it. Most of my cuts are 2-4 ft or less so the left wing can be smaller. the right wing often holds the largest part of the board. So, The left wing can be shorter and the right wing should be over 4 ft… If it is then an 8 ft board will stay on the wing. A wing under 4 ft and an 8 ft board will tip off after it is cut.

Outfeed tables for the table saw: Same thing. If the total length from blade exit to the end of the outfeed table is over 4 ft then an 8 ft board will stay on the table after it is put through the saw. Under 4 ft and it will flip onto the floor after you let it go and maybe want to even before the cut is done.

Dust hoses and mobile tools: If you have that 4" hose connected to your on wheels and against the wall jointer, planer, router table, etc. Make sure that when you pull them out the hose is long enough so that you can put a long piece of wood through it without hitting a wall.

Smaller 1hp dust collectors or shop vacuums used for dust collection. My delta 1 hp wouldn't do my whole shop. so, I split it and just put three of my major chip makers connected to it. Very short run as the tools are close to each other and the collector works as good as any higher powered one that has pipes run across the shop. My lesser used tools, belt sander, band saw, scroll saw, I use a large shop vac.


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## pretzer (Oct 20, 2014)

My shop is 15×35 ,with a small bathroom in the corner.This size works well for me.My wood shop is connected to my farm shop so I can fudge alittle if I need more room temporary. Two things I like about my shop is , I used foam insulation. That makes it very comfortable. Second, I lined part of the walls with 5/8 plywood.That way I can hang anything I want anywhere I want. I have one small window & a big door.
Oh yes, The toilet is nice at my age. Less time walking to and from the house & more time playing.


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## darinstarr (Oct 30, 2014)

This is the poor man's fold up panel saw I was looking at:

http://www.americanwoodworker.com/blogs/shop/archive/2010/01/14/fold-down-cutting-rack.aspx

Also, a panoramic shot of the space I'm considering:










The dirt/leaves area in the back was completely overgrown with 6' worth of brush until I finished clearing it last week. That area comes in from the back yard fence by about 22' before it hits grass. Only one tree inside the fence, in the very far left corner. Plenty of room to build and still let the dog run wild!


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## darinstarr (Oct 30, 2014)

> Dust hoses and mobile tools: If you have that 4" hose connected to your on wheels and against the wall jointer, planer, router table, etc. Make sure that when you pull them out the hose is long enough so that you can put a long piece of wood through it without hitting a wall.
> 
> Smaller 1hp dust collectors or shop vacuums used for dust collection. My delta 1 hp wouldn t do my whole shop. so, I split it and just put three of my major chip makers connected to it. Very short run as the tools are close to each other and the collector works as good as any higher powered one that has pipes run across the shop. My lesser used tools, belt sander, band saw, scroll saw, I use a large shop vac.
> 
> - Craftsman on the lake


This is great, thanks! I'm still reading up on DC's and doing some window shopping One thing I know is that I want a single DC that services everything. From what I gather, you use blast gates to maximize performance to the tool(s) you're using at a given time, and I imagine hose length will diminish section power especially on smaller units. I'm thinking 1.5HP should do the trick?


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Darin,
You may want to re-think the one DC for everything. First, in a small shop, DC use is intermittent. Do you really want to keep turning on and off a big one? Or listen to it run all the time? Both are very wasteful and inefficient. E.g. a chop saw is on for only a few seconds, hardly worth turning on any sort of sucker. So I have the dust output funneled into a bucket with no blower other than the air moved by the blade. Surprisingly it captures almost all the dust. The bucket is portable too… 

I'm trying to work out DC arrangements for my own shop, and there are some larger machines like a thickness sander, planer, shapers, rip and dado saws that produce a LOT of shavings when used, but again they don't get used for more than a few minutes at a time. So, I'm thinking along the lines of work flow…i.e. planer > rip where the successive operations need chip collection and will be used close enough in sequence to be worth leaving the DC run. Of course, use blast gates, or at least a moveable quick connect hose. The smaller more intermittent operations that produce less dust are good with a shop vac -dust deputy system equipped with an RC switch. 
DanK


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

With dust collection you either go big or chop it up piecemeal. The main issue is getting the dust into the hose to begin with. A chop saw is notorious for making sawdust and hard to get it all in a collector. A planer and jointer are easy. If you go the big, full dust collector route and do a good job at the tool end then you'll get most of it and you'll be like those shops that always look clean… I'm talking 2-3 hp with big duct work. If you do the smaller hp and shop vac route like I do, plan on blowing the dust off the walls once and awhile and some vacuuming. But you don't end up sweeping and shoveling the stuff in a can that way anyways. A few hours of planing/jointing/routing can produce 20 or more gallons of chips.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> Build with dust collection in mind.
> 
> Dedicated finishing area.
> 
> ...


For example on the dust collection, decide if you will run pipes through the ceiling or under the floor. Make room for a shroud around certain tools that throw lots of dust like miter saws and lathes. A neighbor of mine has a basement in his shop. All the dc pipes run under the floor. He has 17 shop vacs, each wired to small machines and work areas so when he turns on his bandsaw, a shop vac under the floor also turns on. He also has two 2hp dust collectors that run to big machines like tablesaw, planer, etc. I'm not saying do it like that but clearly he planned it well and you can barely hear the dust collection running. Sounds like it'd be a pain to empty but he says he goes down there once or twice a year with a wheelbarrow and dumps all the vacs.

Same guy also has a dedicated finishing room. It's just a narrow hallway type space where he can finish and then go back to work without worrying about dust getting in the finish. If you can't dedicate that much space, consider a specific corner that can pull a curtain around. Maybe with a lazy susan table to make getting all sides of a project easier.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

> First, in a small shop, DC use is intermittent. Do you really want to keep turning on and off a big one? Or listen to it run all the time? Both are very wasteful and inefficient. E.g. a chop saw is on for only a few seconds, hardly worth turning on any sort of sucker.


How much of a problem is this? I use a remote and turn on my DC for short periods when I need it. I'd never keep it running all the time.


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

I would encourage you not to stop planning, and starting to cool downwith your ideas . My father in law and an elderly friend of mine wanted a workshop but simply waited too late for it to be practical. I was a bit saddened by that. I therefore decided to build mine with all the bells and whistles. I could not put in water for a sink or toilet which is regrettable but I was not allowed to. Anyway a wooden floor is amust concrete will do your back some chronic problems in a short time. Also many many sockets for power and a lot even go over the top with ceiling lighting, I love a well lit shop,nothing else will do. I do not regret that expenditure in any way. I have the luxury of central heating and double glazing too. I added a very large roof light (window) over my sliding table dimension saw,which opens in the summer as do all the others it is a blessing.I never built in a dust system as I prefer to use currrently three seperate powerful extractors set out near the important machines and spread to the others.Really it is quite do-able, and neat as each extractor has double outlets on them.I use only one at a time as I am alone blocking off all unused with gates which gives you full power each time. I promise you you are in for the best free time of your life it is by far worth it's weight in gold as it keeps you cool calm and collected and of course happy.Have lots of fun in your new life.Alistair


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

A shop the size of a 1 car garage is kind of awkward
to maneuver around in and it will restrict your ability
to fit the tools you need to progress in your craft
unless you choose a modest specialty that requires
only limited machinery. I have a lot of machinery
and do work within a broad scope. Sometimes I
want to just focus on small things like building guitars
and chairs and little fine things. But sometimes the
work can get so big it spills out of a small space…
and then I'm always having to juririg tarps and store
machines outside where they get their surfaces 
damaged and eventually develop corrosion problems. 
Of course I am diligent about building little lean-to
roofs to shelter the machines and materials I don't use
frequently. A shop over 1000 square feet gets so
you spend a lot of time walking around from station
to station, which is fatiguing. Some people are using
little cars, scooters and things of that ilk to get around
in larger work spaces with a lot of big machinery and
workers in them. Again, it depends on the scope
and ambition level of the work.

If the building codes of the area you live in are so
restrictive it may be discouraging to take on larger
work, but if all you want to make are simple things
that don't require larger capacity machines, 
then that's an acceptable limitation.

I think I have a 50 amp panel in my shop and I can
get a 10hp phase converter going but it's tricky to
get a 7.5hp motor starting under load to go with
that because it's a hard starting application where I 
have to almost do a martial arts move to get the
motor going and turn on the compressed air at
the same time. It's a small wide belt sander and 
these devices have a drive roller for the sanding belt
and a platen for finishing the material to the finest 
level. Most folks probably won't do a level of work
that requires such large motors (rather modest actually -
I heard about one motor in a large factory that
cost over $10,000 every day just to turn it on and
I'm sure there are larger motors I haven't heard
about somewhere).

I like wood flooring. My shop has concrete and after
several hours wearing decent shoes I'm a lot more
fatigued than I would become in a previous shop
I worked in that had a simple plywood floor.


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## Nobodyhome (Dec 3, 2013)

If it is impossible to build out, if practical give serious thought to building up. Lots of utility in a second floor.

John


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## ElChe (Sep 28, 2014)

My shop is 16×24. Pole built. Space limited by zoning constraints. It worked out great. My regrets? Not enough outlets is the first. I wish I would've put an outlet every 4' at least. I put a 220 for my saw and one for my wall heater. I insulated the heck out of the shop. It is toasty during the winter and stays cool in the summer. I put two windows on one end and a door and garage door on the other end. The window that is above my utility bench is great. The one in the other corner is obstructed by a woodshed and doesn't add much by way of light so I would have gone with one window to give me more wall space.  Too many windows cuts down on wall space which is at a premium with a smaller shop. Too few windows and it gets claustrophobic. I put so many lights in my shop that I am sure that if I took off the roof it would be visibpe from the moon. Wood storage is on one wall. Table saw is fairly centered. I connected the main dust producers to a cyclone operated by blast gates and a remote. It works great. I did a decent job in figuring out the flow of projects. Jointer to planer to sander to table saw back to sander. Drill press in a corner and band saw in an opposite corner. It can get crowded but I'm a weekend warrior.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Something I forgot to mention (which 2 or 3 others have alluded to), but I would strongly emphasize: try to have 10 foot ceilings. Lower ceilings are a pain in the back, especially when your trying to maneuver 4×8 panels around. Also, I would never have a flat roof if avoidable. I have a flat roof now (came with the place), and my space is cut up by big overhead beams and requisite support posts, which I have tried to work around, but continue to be an annoyance. To avoid center supports, your joists will have to be ample in size, or you will have to use truss construction. That's the strongest, but hampers your loft space. It's all a balancing act.


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## splatman (Jul 27, 2014)

Dig this: If you cannot build up due to height restrictions (code, whatever), can you do down? Put in a basement, which will give you a 2-storey building, while staying under the height restriction. Invite your friends over and have a Dig in! party. Which presents a question: Where to go with the dirt? If you don't need any, find out if anyone is asking for fill. Check Craigslist for "fill dirt wanted". There's want ads for fill in the Seattle/Tacoma area right now (I just checked, to see if it's even a thing).


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## buildingmonkey (Mar 1, 2014)

That basement idea is good, but expensive. I would build a gambrel roof over the building so you could use the attic area for storage. Might need to build a winch to lift things up. Do a search, there is a guy who posts who has a lifting device for his 2nd floor shop. I would put a cyclone dc on the outside, build out the overhang a little, so there is roof over it, and blow the air back in if you are heating and cooling. Otherwise just let the exhaust go outside. You will collect the dust if you get the piping well sealed. If it is blowing dust, there is a leak in the system.


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