# Sawstop epic fail with UPS in close second



## BikerDad

Without any indication of where you're at, I can only snarkily offer a possible correct response.

Pick it up locally. That's how I got mine. Near perfect condition. The only imperfection is that the roll pin for the locking knoblet has fallen out sometime in the past year. I called SawStop and three days later a replacement for the entire knoblet (the one you have pictured broken in half) was in my mailbox.

That said, I also noted how inadequate the packaging for the sliding table seemed to be, which was very, very surprising given how well thought out was the entire packaging/assembly process.

While it's annoying (yes, I may very well be understating the emotion) to be the at ground zero of a failure point, the upside is sooner or later a bean counter is going to realize it will be a damn sight cheaper to get the IN BOX packaging done right than it is to keep shipping multiple units to the same customer.


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## ellen35

Delivery systems stink! I had my Sawstop delivered in a truck too big to fit down my street by one guy who couldn't lift the saw…no lift gate! I had to enlist my neighbors to help him. Woodcraft in Walpole MA was great. They gave me a store credit for the cost of the lift gate. I blame the fiasco on Fedex. The saw was in perfect condition. If the one guy sent tried to take it off the truck himself, it would have been in pieces. He even had to use my hand truck to get it down my street. He wanted to bring it back to the warehouse and deliver it the next day. Imagine what they would have done with it at the warehouse!
No one seems to care about customer service. Least of all the delivery guys. 
(Consider this a rant!)


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## Hawaiilad

You should see the boxes that are shipped here…I think the are using junk cardboard sometimes


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## Desert_Woodworker

Question: the beauty of this no one lost any fingers. Is this a review on the "sled" or "packaging"?


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## Alan72

I bellieve that the post is about Saw stop and the Shipping company. Maybe Saw Stop needs to repackage the sliding Table, it cost enough. I would think it puttting it in a wooden box would solved any shipping issues. I have recieved 3 tools from Grizzly on three different ocassions without any issues at all. I think the people working at the shipping company have no idea how much these things weight. They pick up the table, it slides away and throws that person off balance and down it goes.


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## Tennessee

I ship a lot of stuff, and to be honest, to expect any shipping company to actually handle any package with care is a pipe dream. They have an acceptable damage rate, and they make it difficult to get claims settled, so the better option is to make sure the product is made as "ship-proof" as possible.

I won't ship a guitar without a hardshell case anymore, and if I ship anything else, I make sure I start with bubble wrap, foam around the item, and when the box is finally closed, if I can shake it and hear ANYTHING, I open it back up and make it so nothing can move.

It also helps to use something better than the cheapest cardboard.


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## wormil

Woodcraft is the culprit, and UPS. SS is shipping these in retail packaging for sale in stores. Woodcraft is shipping them in retail packaging (big no-no), via UPS, which is the worst choice for anything remotely breakable. WC needs to pony up for packing meant for individual shipping.


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## philba

I have to agree with the OP - decent packaging is not that expensive. SS knows what it's retailers are doing, they need to own the process from start to set up in the customer's shop. period. And to scrimp a couple of bucks on a multi-thousand dollar item is just plain stupid. I have had lots of stuff delivered and good companies know how to do it. Incra, Grizzly and others get it right. Well packaged to survive Gorilla Express. They get my repeat business. Others, not so much. And they have first class customer support. Missing something? No questions asked - it's in the mail the same day. Shipping problems - they don't say talk to the shipper. They get it fixed.


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## ssnvet

At the end of the day SAWSTOP IS TOTALLY RESPONSIBLE.

They spec the packaging…
They pick the shipper…
They control the process, and own the results, even if the fanboys fall over backwards to make excuses for them.


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## mummykicks

Fwiw my pcs arrived without issue. But it was on a pallet, and had the nice formed foam inserts. The first fence box was mangled, but the second one was fine. If woodcraft is getting the cct on pallets and then are reshipping them in boxes designed for pallet shipment then shame on them.

However, sawstop must be aware that this will happen and I would argue the box is barely fit for pallet shipment, as a decent drop and the fence can easily damage the bottom of the table, since it is heavy and is just in a thin box with no popcorn or anything. The fence is likely resposible for the locking knob damage, as it sticks up and the fence can slide around and hit it.

If the cct's are being pulled off display and 'repacked' and sent I think sawstop would have some choice words with woodcraft. Only reason I might suspect this is sawstop has replied that the packaging is superb. The worst scenario is woodcraft reshipping returns as new. The first box I got looked like it had been shipped more than once.

I don't know if any of the above is true, but it has got me thinking based upon sawstop's reply. That and my frustration is making think something unprofessional going on.

Woodcraft has been very responsive so I can't find fault with them yet.


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## wormil

Did you buy it from Woodcraft or Sawstop? Who did you pay and which company shipped it to you? If the answer is Woodcraft then Woodcraft is at fault.


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## BikerDad

> I have to agree with the OP - decent packaging is not that expensive. SS knows what it s retailers are doing, they need to own the process from start to set up in the customer s shop. period. And to scrimp a couple of bucks on a multi-thousand dollar item is just plain stupid.
> ...
> - philba


To be clear, the problem is with the sliding table packaging. The packaging of the Professional Cabinet Saw is superb, which is why the poor packaging of the sliding table is surprising. Also, the sliding table is not a "multi-thousand dollar item." It is, in fact, not even a $1,000 item. It misses that by a dollar.


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## CyberDyneSystems

I've read up more on this sliding table since reading this before commenting.

It's a shame it appears to have a number of inherent flaws. Perhaps if/when they make a revision it will be more in line with the other products and accessories that SawStop sells?

Since using a sliding table saw (a real one, industrial Oliver, not an accessory/add-on) I've dreamed of an add on that could actually suit my needs. To date, I don't believe there is one that exists.

It MUST cross cut a full size sheet of plywood. (this SawStop's own literature says it can, but it was not designed to be a solution for that need)

It MUST NOT interfere with the normal rip operation. None I've come across can make that claim IMHO.

Oh well.


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## mummykicks

So an update for anyone who is keeping track. I returned my second unit from woodcraft and then mosey'd down to my local woodcraft store in the hopes that getting it delivered there would circumvent the whole UPS abuse deal.
It arrived yesterday, and I went down and picked it up. I asked them if I could inspect it before I carted it away and the guys were really great about it.

Basically they wait until they get a big enough order that they get free shipping, so mine came with a couple of other saws. With tax it was within $20 of what paid online. They said even though the name is the same it is a different organization than the one online, and I believe it. Woodcraft Tucson did right by me.

This one was in excellent shape, and other than a very minor scratch on the top (really small) it was good to go.
Having seen how this one was packaged, and how the ones from the online woodcraft arrived I'm reasonably certain I was getting previously returned items from woodcraft. The first one was missing some of the inserts that should have been there as well as the hardware pack. The comment from customer service 'can you pack so it doesn't get damaged any further' was odd to me at the time.
The second one they said they would 'inspect' and repack. Which again makes me wonder. It isn't proof, but it sure smells funny. To their credit woodcraft refunded my money without hesitation, or trying to pull a 'you still pay for shipping' routine.
It doesn't mean that Sawstop is absolved from the packaging fail, but it does make me say that if you are going to order this, find a local distributor and have them get it directly from sawstop on a pallet.
I'll be doing an very detailed review of this as a blog entry if anyone is interested


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## wormil

Why not edit this review so its actually a review rather than writing a new review.


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## mummykicks

Another update. I thought I was going to keep this thing, but the fence design is flawed and fubar's the table when you try to change the angle of the fence. I was VERY careful doing the motion, but because of the idiotic pin and slot lock down design the T nut for that big ass knob rubs in the slot and makes the same noise (and feeling) as some burrs removing anodized aluminum…sigh.

I took it apart, cleaned it, waxed it and put it back on with the same result. The anodize on that extrusion is suspect at best, and once the thin uhmw strips on the underside of the fence pic up a particle it just drags it across the surface and scratches it. Unbelievable. From the looks of it you'd think I leaned on it while I rotated it.

The fence is so massive and heavy that it only makes it worse, and the stops are a joke. Fiddle with 'em enough and you'll get the position you want, and it will stay there but it's just lame.
The table works great, but the fence, not so much. So I either leave it at 0 degrees and remove it every day so my wife doesn't run into it parking the car, or I keep rotating it and scratching the table more and more. There is no way to rotate that fence without scratching it, and none of the aluminum pieces show any sign of rubbing it. The uhmw tape is doing this!

NO thanks. Sorry sawstop, I love my pcs, it's fantastic, but this thing is all show an no go.
Oh, and because of the way this thing is designed, if you want to do miters on it and install it on the wing and not the table, you need another fence because you can't reposition the fence (like you can with an incra miter gage/fence) because of that idiotic pin and slot design for the lockdown. The same one that prevents them from having detents.
3rd time was definitely not the charm. Looks like I'll have to design my own.
I would not buy this, nor would I recommend anyone buy it, they've got serious design and mfg issues the sort out before it's a real product….


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## mummykicks

So the table itself isn't flat, looks like about .012"-.015" low on the left side of the picture in my post above. Since the fence hard mounts in in the left slot, the fence rubs the table as you adjust angle. So either they are not post machining the table top, which is what should be done, or they are doing it too soon after it comes out of the extrusion die and it's stress relieving on them over time. Or they just aren't checking flatness as part of the QC.
That amount of twist is not unexpected with aluminum extrusions like this.

It's frustrating because I really like using this and now it's going back.


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## CyberDyneSystems

Bummer. That is bad indeed. Again, being familiar with the SawStop saws and other accessories they sell for them, I am saddened and a little taken aback to see them put their name on a product so clearly not ready for prime time.

I think you should edit your original review and copy in the formation from your last two posts. this is important information to know about the product itself.


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## GaryM3348

I just recently received the Sawstops sliding table via a trucking company. It arrived in perfect shape and the item was very well packaged. It was well sealed in styrofoam. I have read about complaints that it won't handle very wide boards. It can be installed to accept a 48 inch sheet of plywood. At least for myself that is plenty. The other complaint was the inaccuracy of the mother gauge. It does not have set stops. I discussed this with Sawstops technical support and was told they have a upgrade out with set angles built into the miter gauge. I called my local dealer, they called sawstop and I should have the upgraded miter gauge shipped to my door by tomorrow at no charge.


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## Keekee

I'm interested if anyone has purchased the sliding table and likes it. I took a class and one of the students said a friend of his purchased it but gave it away. He said it was a pain. Have any of you used on. If so do you like it. If you like or dislike let me know why.


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