# SDD 5" vs SSD 4" Deluxe



## wwwanabe (Feb 9, 2015)

Upgrading my dust collection and needed some advice. Debating between the SDD 5" cyclone only paired with my existing collector can @$169 OR the 4" SDD Deluxe with the top that covers the Oneida barrel. I'm pairing this with a HF collector. My question is the outlet on the HF is 5" I believe so why wouldn't I want to go 5" to 5" from collector to cyclone instead of 5" to 4" on the cyclone? But if it wouldn't help to have bigger inlets then I could go with the SDD Deluxe 4" with barrel on Amazon for $229. The end goal is to get away from the blue expandable hose on run the PVC DWV pipe to the machines.


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## wwwanabe (Feb 9, 2015)

I see my question got 131 views but no replies…..must not be a good question….


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## jamsomito (Mar 26, 2017)

DC is a complicated topic that needs detailed and specific calculations for every application, which is probably why you're not getting answers.

The HF DC is a weird beast. It has a dual 4" adapter on the inlet, when it barely moves enough air for 1, and the outlet is 5", which if I recall is an odd size to find ductwork for (I have not looked myself). You want the separator before your motor/impeller on the suction side, so if you match inlet to outlet by going 5", you'll need to modify your HF DC to accept a 5" inlet from the cyclone (or maybe it's 5" behind the adapter, not sure).

Look at the cfm ratings for each cyclone, and also if I recall, you'll find that the HF DC falls right between the two (look up actual readings from owners, don't use manufacturer rated cfm). So, on the upper end of the 4" and the lower end of the 5". I think I would opt for the 4" to make sure the cyclone has enough flow to separate, but if you plan any upgrades to your HF DC like the rikon impeller upgrade, then you might want to consider the 5" version to accommodate the higher flows later.

I have a HF DC with Wynn filter, still single stage. I have plans for all these upgrades in the future so I've done a little research, but have not concluded my design yet as budget doesn't allow upgrades at the moment. So, take this all with a grain of salt, but this is my current understanding. Someone else can gladly correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Bob5103 (Feb 13, 2016)

The inlet to the SDD is 5" and the outlet is 6". I went with a 5" main duct and then used a reducer from the outlet to the intake on my HF DC. This worked OK, but just OK. After about a month I upgraded the impellor on the DC (9.25") to the Rikon impellor (12"), and this doubled the CFM at my tools. I have been very happy with the results. I also eliminated the filter by exhausting outside.


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## wwwanabe (Feb 9, 2015)

> DC is a complicated topic that needs detailed and specific calculations for every application, which is probably why you re not getting answers.
> 
> The HF DC is a weird beast. It has a dual 4" adapter on the inlet, when it barely moves enough air for 1, and the outlet is 5", which if I recall is an odd size to find ductwork for (I have not looked myself). You want the separator before your motor/impeller on the suction side, so if you match inlet to outlet by going 5", you ll need to modify your HF DC to accept a 5" inlet from the cyclone (or maybe it s 5" behind the adapter, not sure).
> 
> ...


Thanks… I measured the HF inlet and it's 5". As for the wye fitting that come with DC I won't be using. I currently use the Rockler two stage fittings so I have a good handle on that upgrade. That said, my debate is whether to go with the complete 4" SDD which includes the cyclone with the bottom that acts as the can top on the brown barrel. Or the 5" inch SDD cyclone only and use my trash can. What really is the issue is the top of the cyclone which can be 4 or 5 " depending on which one I go with. The goal is to come out of the output of the cyclone (straight piece) white a piece of 4" flex and then onto the 4" pipe. if the end result is 4" then why would I go with a 4" SDD system? The only fittings I would need would the 5 to 4 from the collector impeller side to the top of the cyclone. I'm just trying to give myself the most air flow to start with. Sorry for ramble.


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## wwwanabe (Feb 9, 2015)

> The inlet to the SDD is 5" and the outlet is 6". I went with a 5" main duct and then used a reducer from the outlet to the intake on my HF DC. This worked OK, but just OK. After about a month I upgraded the impellor on the DC (9.25") to the Rikon impellor (12"), and this doubled the CFM at my tools. I have been very happy with the results. I also eliminated the filter by exhausting outside.
> 
> - Bob5103


Thanks. Using these specs the HF 5 " would match the 5" on top of the cyclone. Then I would need a 6 to 4 reducer on the output side so I could start my 4 inch pipe. I certainly didn't know that I could upgrade the impeller fan to 12 inch. Does it fit into the standard HF housing and how much does it cost?


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## wwwanabe (Feb 9, 2015)

Price for the SDD 5 inch cyclone only is $169 and the Amazon 4" SDD with barrel is $229


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## Bob5103 (Feb 13, 2016)

Just making sure we are talking about the same thing. The SDD intake(that goes to the ducting is 5") the output(that connects to the DC is 6"). So you need a 6 to 5 reducer SDD to DC and a 5 to 4" SDD to duct. I did a write up on the impellor swap here. https://www.woodtalkonline.com/topic/23656-harbor-freight-rikonstein-dc/
The swap is easy, no modification to the DC necessary.


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## fivecodys (Dec 2, 2013)

I choose the 5" SDD and added my own barrel.
After consulting with Oneida, It was the best choice for my DC blower and my layout.
I wanted a flexible connection between the SDD and the barrel top.
Here is what I did.

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/256729

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/388617

Dust collection and a very complex and highly opinionated topic here. I read everything I could get my hands on and listened to every opinion before I began.

There are several really knowledgeable folks on this forum and they were very eager to help.
I included the whole thread in my link above. Hopefully you can find some of it helpful.


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## wwwanabe (Feb 9, 2015)

> Just making sure we are talking about the same thing. The SDD intake(that goes to the ducting is 5") the output(that connects to the DC is 6"). So you need a 6 to 5 reducer SDD to DC and a 5 to 4" SDD to duct. I did a write up on the impellor swap here. https://www.woodtalkonline.com/topic/23656-harbor-freight-rikonstein-dc/
> The swap is easy, no modification to the DC necessary.
> 
> - Bob5103


Yes, those are the dimensions. So that makes my point, why step it up and down with the in and outs on the cyclone just to end up with 4"??? Not trying to belabor the point but why wouldn't I just go with the 4" set up using one 5 to 4 on top of the cyclone? Seems counterintuitive to get more airflow thru the cyclone only? Is there a benefit, if so I don't mind going that way. But if the impeller is where the benefit really is then maybe I won't get what I think I'm getting.


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## wwwanabe (Feb 9, 2015)

Bob, good article. Just watched a YT video on someone replacing the impeller. His results were increased by about 20%, the best I could tell. I don't think with my hobby use premature failure wouldn't be a concerned. Tripping my breaker on my contractor minimum outlet placement for the garage may be though. It seems to draw more current on startup and running amps.


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## wwwanabe (Feb 9, 2015)

> I choose the 5" SDD and added my own barrel.
> After consulting with Oneida, It was the best choice for my DC blower and my layout.
> I wanted a flexible connection between the SDD and the barrel top.
> Here is what I did.
> ...


Very nice. How did you hook the bottom of the cyclone to the barrel. Meaning, the bottom of the cyclone is smooth and doesn't really have a male connector pice to hook a reducer to…..I do like how the cyclone is able to stay in 0lace while you empty the barrel. The first time I've seen that that way.


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## Bob5103 (Feb 13, 2016)

I should have mentioned my ducting is 5" main reduced to 4" at the tools. Since the intake on the HF DC is 5" I had to use a 6 to 5 reducer from the SDD to the DC. I used a 32 gallon trash can and attached the SDD to a shop made ply top for the can. Here a couple of pictures. I reused the bag supports from the DC and attached them to the wall and top of the can. To empty the can I just undo 4 bolts and the can drops clear so I can empty it.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Just a couple more ideas for cyclone barrels:

1) I made a hold down cage for the clear lawn bags using fencing. They pull out of the saw dust with a bit of wiggling.

2) To get the full bag out, tip the barrel on its side and, while holding the top of the bag, pour the sawdust out. Of course, pulling the full bag straight up is impossible.

3) I ground off and siliconed the screws and rivets for the handles, view port and what not so the bag wouldn't catch on them.

4) The hold downs are from an autoparts store and are for truck hoods.

5) Assembled and with the view port, you can, easily, see the fill level through the bag.


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## fivecodys (Dec 2, 2013)

> I choose the 5" SDD and added my own barrel.
> After consulting with Oneida, It was the best choice for my DC blower and my layout.
> I wanted a flexible connection between the SDD and the barrel top.
> Here is what I did.
> ...


I used the bracket I fabricated as both a hanger for the SDD and as a reducer to go from 6" to 5".
I used a 5" piece of duct work and cut a series of tabs in the end to secure it to the bracket. I sealed it up very carefully with silicon and then set the 6" bottom of the SDD right on top of it and bolted it into place using the sealing strip they provide and then more silicon.



















I used a similar process to connect the hose to the barrel except I used PVC parts instead of metal ducting.

I went to 5" here because I wanted a flexible connection to the barrel and I didn't wand to buy 10' of 6" hose just to use a little piece. I run 5" duct and hose right up to the table-saw so I just stole a short piece of hose from there.
I hope this is helpful.


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## wwwanabe (Feb 9, 2015)

> Just making sure we are talking about the same thing. The SDD intake(that goes to the ducting is 5") the output(that connects to the DC is 6"). So you need a 6 to 5 reducer SDD to DC and a 5 to 4" SDD to duct. I did a write up on the impellor swap here. https://www.woodtalkonline.com/topic/23656-harbor-freight-rikonstein-dc/
> The swap is easy, no modification to the DC necessary.
> 
> - Bob5103
> ...


Bob--I still didn't really get your answer on why the cyclone should be the 5" and not the 4" set up? My previously thought is would the 4" setup be better mating to the eventual 4" piping? OR does bigger airflow actually enhance system and at least compensate for the smaller impeller?


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## wwwanabe (Feb 9, 2015)

> Just making sure we are talking about the same thing. The SDD intake(that goes to the ducting is 5") the output(that connects to the DC is 6"). So you need a 6 to 5 reducer SDD to DC and a 5 to 4" SDD to duct. I did a write up on the impellor swap here. https://www.woodtalkonline.com/topic/23656-harbor-freight-rikonstein-dc/
> The swap is easy, no modification to the DC necessary.
> 
> - Bob5103
> ...


BTW I'm leaning heavily with the 5" cyclone since I already have a heavy gray 32 gallon trash can and lid. I think the paper barrel from Oneida is overpriced.


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## Bob5103 (Feb 13, 2016)

I am no expert, but everything I read/researched indicated that the main line should be as large of diameter that the DC will handle. I tried a section of 6" but got better airflow with 5". I didn't try 4", the longest run of pipe in my system is 41' and I wanted the best airflow I could get without going to a larger DC.


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## wwwanabe (Feb 9, 2015)

> I am no expert, but everything I read/researched indicated that the main line should be as large of diameter that the DC will handle. I tried a section of 6" but got better airflow with 5". I didn t try 4", the longest run of pipe in my system is 41 and I wanted the best airflow I could get without going to a larger DC.
> 
> - Bob5103


Thanks, I ordered the 5 inch cyclone only last night. I will seriously consider the 5 inch duct and then reduce to 4 and then flex hose to the tool. Now it's on to blast gate. My duct will determine what size gate. I do definitely want to go with aluminum. Thanks for all your help and advice. As insult to injury WEN went up on the price by 25$ so I couldn't the two air filtration units….supply and demand I guess.


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## wwwanabe (Feb 9, 2015)

> I am no expert, but everything I read/researched indicated that the main line should be as large of diameter that the DC will handle. I tried a section of 6" but got better airflow with 5". I didn t try 4", the longest run of pipe in my system is 41 and I wanted the best airflow I could get without going to a larger DC.
> 
> - Bob5103


Bob, funny story…...I now have the SDD And am struggling with the top 6 to 5 (collector side). Called Oneida with concerns the the seam around the top was too wide. Their solution was that I could shine a flashlight and couldn't see any light the the seam will be fine. I didn't see the light so I guess it will not leak but time will tell. Secondly, they told me that THEIR reducer would work unless I crimped it. Also, she said they crimp it but I needed to tell where to crimp it. At first, I thought she meant the DC port side but she meant the DD side. Bottom line, what did you use for the top of the cyclone and did you buy it from?....thanks Mark


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

I made reducers at my collectors using plywood. I cut the holes with my jig saw and the outer ring with my bandsaw. Then I ran to the lines on my drum-disk sander and my spindle sander. Two of my big collectors have them and the SDD has one for the four inch line to the tools.


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## wwwanabe (Feb 9, 2015)

> I made reducers at my collectors using plywood. I cut the holes with my jig saw and the outer ring with my bandsaw. Then I ran to the lines on my drum-disk sander and my spindle sander. Two of my big collectors have them and the SDD has one for the four inch line to the tools.
> 
> - Kelly


The reducer I'm referring to is the 6 to 5 on top on the dust deputy. The 5 inch side will hook up to the HF collector. Not sure I understand your comment about building them out of plywood. How would that seal? Maybe I could visualize it from a picture. Thanks.


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## Bob5103 (Feb 13, 2016)

> Bob, funny story…...I now have the SDD And am struggling with the top 6 to 5 (collector side). Called Oneida with concerns the the seam around the top was too wide. Their solution was that I could shine a flashlight and couldn't see any light the the seam will be fine. I didn't see the light so I guess it will not leak but time will tell. Secondly, they told me that THEIR reducer would work unless I crimped it. Also, she said they crimp it but I needed to tell where to crimp it. At first, I thought she meant the DC port side but she meant the DD side. Bottom line, what did you use for the top of the cyclone and did you buy it from?....thanks Mark
> 
> - wwwanabe


This is what I used. It is a 5 to 4 reducer, but it fits perfectly inside the SDD out and inside the 5" flex. https://www.amazon.com/Fernco-Flexible-Coupling-Pipe-Size/dp/B002KV7IA2/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_60_tr_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=PM9VETRWXZAMF8EN3XT8
I used HVAC tape to seal the SDD to the reducer and a pipe clamp to the flex hose.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Just jumped to the so called smart phone thing and, while I like the photo capability, the lack of well thought out programing is less than admirable. Said another way, accessing the photos I took of the connector spacers for my dust collector was/is a challenge. Anyway, here is ONE. I hope it helps see what I was talking about.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

When I ran my little Jet through the SDD, I used a piece of black pipe and a spacer like I built in the above photo, versus when I connected it to my big collector, in which case the hose slips over the upper port.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

More hose spacer photos:


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

I've cut down on how many of these threads I chime in on, but somehow I ended up on this one. The OP has his SDD and hopefully is happy with his results, but the HF is underpowered, and any form of separator reduces airflow and thus leaves more bad stuff in the air. And for what? Less work in cleaning out the DC (more stuff ends up in the barrel, and less in the filter). Bad tradeoff in my opinion-safety is more important than convenience. If you have a 5HP DC, then throwing some airflow into separation efficiency makes a lot of sense to me. But when you are underpowered to begin with, it doesn't. The OP will need to use a respirator when he is generating dust to work safely.

As always, YMMV. FWIW, I have the HF with the Wynn filter and no separator. I do use a respirator when sanding or otherwise generating a lot of fines.


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## wwwanabe (Feb 9, 2015)

I have the SDD, the new Wynn Filter, new plastic bag installed and ready for pipes. I purchased some y fittings from Amazon which came from Powertec. The problem is the y fittings fit inside the pipe but a looser fit than they should be. I thought would be a closer fit. Do I have to add tape to the y to take up the difference? Is there a better y fitting that I need to buy? The blast gates are the same way. Or is the pipe wrong. I went with 4" DWV from HD.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Your pipe is what many of us use…the problem being just what you discovered; nothing fits perfectly. You'll need to use whatever you can scrounge up, duct tape, wooden donuts, whatever to get them to fit tightly. For any flex hose you might be able to use the fittings like a union and force the flex inside. Don't forget you can stretch the PVC with heat, and you can squeeze it down by cutting slits in it. There is also an adapter available (from Woodstock, I think) but the other methods are just as easy.


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## wwwanabe (Feb 9, 2015)

I have the SDD, the new Wynn Filter, new plastic bag installed and ready for pipes. I purchased some y fittings from Amazon which came from Powertec. The problem is the y fittings fit inside the pipe but a looser fit than they should be. I thought would be a closer fit. Do I have to add tape to the y to take up the difference? Is there a better y fitting that I need to buy? The blast gates are the same way. Or is the pipe wrong. I went with 4" DWV from HD.


> Your pipe is what many of us use…the problem being just what you discovered; nothing fits perfectly. You ll need to use whatever you can scrounge up, duct tape, wooden donuts, whatever to get them to fit tightly. For any flex hose you might be able to use the fittings like a union and force the flex inside. Don t forget you can stretch the PVC with heat, and you can squeeze it down by cutting slits in it. There is also an adapter available (from Woodstock, I think) but the other methods are just as easy.
> 
> - Fred Hargis


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## wwwanabe (Feb 9, 2015)

> Your pipe is what many of us use…the problem being just what you discovered; nothing fits perfectly. You ll need to use whatever you can scrounge up, duct tape, wooden donuts, whatever to get them to fit tightly. For any flex hose you might be able to use the fittings like a union and force the flex inside. Don t forget you can stretch the PVC with heat, and you can squeeze it down by cutting slits in it. There is also an adapter available (from Woodstock, I think) but the other methods are just as easy.
> 
> - Fred Hargis


Thanks Fred…just wanted to make sure I wasn't starting wrong. I see some YTbers actually have to heat the pipe to get it over the y connector. I have the opposite problem. My y has too much slop. I wanted to get another opinion before I returned everything. I will tape the y to make up the difference going into the pipe and put the metal duct tape to seal the entire joint. I was so frustrated with Onieda when THEY advised me not to buy their 6 to 5 reducer until it was crimped by them based upon my dimensions when it goes in THEIR dust deputy. Wynn (expensive) filter that I bought uses the cheapest clamps, vague instructions etc. both of these big companies know what collectors are out their and should do a better job with the supporting pieces and hardware that go with them. I will begin to build my Frankenstein system….....#rantover


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