# Buying an older lathe - Advice?



## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

Hello, I'm finally ready for a lathe. I'll want to learn everything buy pen making. I REFUSE TO MAKE PENS and have made a pact with a buddy to never, EVER do that. 

Bowls, spindles, whatever.

I've read *a lot* of previous threads, but 99% of them seem to be about current models, sales and recent used models. I'd like to try to find an older model, though.

I understand that I'll need a face shield and better grinding wheels and to learn yet another sharpening system and I've been watching some intro videos on FWW about general concepts. I have much to learn about chucks and whatnot, but I figure I'll start with the unit itself and go from there.

So … I have a POS HF that I got on CL a few years back for $90, but I refuse to even try it. Besides, it's missing the banjo and I have no interest in buying parts for this. Knowing my history of equipment upgrades I will end up with oldie but goodie eventually so I am hoping to cut to the chase.

First, I can't use a metal lathe as a wood lathe, right? Just want to make sure. I've seen what look like great deals locally. Look at this gorgeous machine!










A couple of that I've come across so far:

1. Myford ML8 - $800. Looking this up online it's rolled steel. Needs a base. He had it mounted on top of a bench. Looks cool, but at that price I'd prefer a turn key system.










2. American - $250 which is great, but it's 3 P. Not sure I want to mess with that. Also, I can't tell if that (and the base) are cast, or what?



















As always, I appreciate all thoughts.

Thank you.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

> First, I can't use a metal lathe as a wood lathe, right?


Wrong. There are a lot of folks turning wood on a metal lathe. But (and this is just my opinion) a metal lathe is really overkill if you aren't going to be turning metal.

I don't know anything about the others, but from the photos you posted, I think you should keep looking. The Myford looks like a tube lathe, and 3 phase power for the American could be a problem. To be fair, there a lot of people using tube lathes, and a lot of people re-work the electrical for use on single-phase service.

In my view, it comes down to this … do you want to be turning wood, or tinkering/rebuilding a lathe?


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

Been reading more. I think the oil system is a major factor in a metal lathe and while I'd love to be able to tinker with metal in the future, wood is my focus right now,

That guys got a converter but yeah, I've managed to avoid 3 P up until now so why start with this?


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Just a thought … look for a local turning club (AAW probably has one or more local chapters within easy driving distance … http://www.woodturner.org/?page=Chapters ) and drop in on one of their meetings (they will welcome you).

Doing so, you are likely to accomplish a number of things:
1) Make some new friends.
2) Find an excellent resource for your new woodturning hobby.
3) Get a line on good, used equipment when club members are upgrading, etc..


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

I have 3 old lathes, a 20's Goodell Pratt, a 50's Craftsman, and a 70's Delta. My advice, look for a 50's or newer wood lathe from a company you've heard of, with a standard size spindle like 1×8, with #2 Morse tapers on head and tailstock. Deltas are the most common and most are built like a tank. Craftsman are okay but may need a bit of fiddling and they are lighter duty. Avoid Craftsman tube lathes (they have one single steel tube bed). Avoid anything with a stamped steel bed. There are other brands beside Delta and Craftsman but those two will probably be 99% of the wood lathes you find from 1950-1980. Pre-50's lathes are fine if you know what to look for and what to avoid, there was a lot less standardization before WWII so you can get some oddball threads and tapers, and more likely to get something with plain bearings instead of ball bearings.


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## Shadowrider (Feb 2, 2015)

That metal lathe does look like someone put some TLC getting it into shape.

Long time machinist here. Metal lathes are for metal. As stated they need a coat of oil on dang near every surface which will play heck with your wood. Also the wood dust will play heck with your lathe.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

For turning bowls & spindle this used lathes is a good compromise. Would definitely want to know extent of restoration done. After seeing and hearing it operate would haggle for better price if decided to buy.

http://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/tls/5204056557.html
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=835

You always want the lathe running as you operate the speed lever, and always move lever to slowest speed before shutting off. Part of that is safety & other is keeps you from messing up the reeves drive.

You can always find used metal lathes lather on!


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

^^^^^^^
Nice find on the PM. Holy cow they have a lot of lathes for sale up there, cheap too. I wish it were like that down here. I'd be looking hard at that Shop Fox for $500. I don't know much about them and it's not vintage but might be a very good deal at that price.


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

Thanks for the feedback all! Both the PM and the Shopfox are both in my short list. Neither does outboard turning, right? I'd think that a big miss, no? Boy this is tough. So you're saying stay away from a pre-1913? Look at this beast!

So the more I think about this the more I find myself thinking maybe I should just start with something simpler and smaller? And more turn-key where I can working immediately with something … anything … until I know what my interests will be.

I've read a lot of good things about the Delta 46-460 but I see none of those anywhere. Does anyone know if the current offering of this model is the same, or this is new, cheaper version that I need to avoid? It's only $610 on Amazon with free shipping!

Or, what about the Rikon Midi for $700?


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

That Delta isn't really ideal for turning bowls, which is something you said you would like to do…

If you want to turn metal -and- wood, get two machines, one for each. Oil and metal swarf don't agree with wood, and wood chips and sawdust don't agree with oily metal. Each was designed for a specific purpose, and while you could make them work, it will be a compromise that might not be ideal.

If you are looking to turn bowls and spindles, find a nice used multi-speed lathe. Something with at least a 10" swing and 36" bed. They can be found for reasonable prices if you are patient, and will usually include extra stuff that would not be included in a new lathe purchase (turning tools, chucks, faceplates, etc…).

If you are looking to make machine parts out of metal (bushings, screws, spacers, etc…), then get a metal turning lathe. Again, they can be found used for a reasonable price if you are patient - although they will generally still be considerably more expensive than a wood lathe.

I have three lathes. One is an older South Bend lathe (similar to your first picture) that I use to make parts for machines that I'm restoring. The other is a vintage Delta wood lathe that I use for making 'artistic' type stuff out of wood (bowls, spindles, lamps, candle holders, etc…). The third is a hybrid multi-purpose mini lathe that can turn just about anything I want - as long as it's small (it only has a 5" swing). Between them, there really isn't anything I can't turn except for really large stuff.

Cheers,
Brad


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Too bad you aren't closer … I have a Delta 46-460 (Type 1 … 4 years old) that I will likely be putting up for sale soon. I bought a Nova DVR 2024 in May and really only have room for one lathe in my shop.

I have done a lot of bowls on my Delta … check out my projects … and have been very happy with it. I upgraded to the Nova to get the additional torque of 2.3hp motor and the 20" swing.

The $610 price is a great deal … especially with the free shipping.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

You can turn outboard on a PM 45. They offered an outboard tool rest, but need left hand threads on chucks & faceplates to turn OB.






Good luck in your quest!


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

Too funny that you posted that video. I JUST watched it moments earlier. That's a sweet restoration!

So you guys are pushing the 45? I just emailed him.


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## REO (Sep 20, 2012)

I like it when these topics come up about turning wood in a metal lathe! just a few precautions and some exciting news too!

Both wood and metal lathes in the past came wit Babbitt bearings they are not made for the high speeds used by many wood turners today. look for ball or roller bearings in the headstock. If the headstock splits across the spindle with bolts holding the bearing cap in place it is most likely a Babbitt bearing setup.

Cast iron works great without oil slathered all over it. use wax on the ways instead.

it is perfectly fine to clamp across the top of the paramedal ways with a flat bottom banjo the flat sections on the tops of the ways are not contact surfaces for the apron slide. if you wish make an adapter that slides with the banjo and has a flat top to contact the flat bottom of your banjo.

It is easy to get a wide range of speed on an older lathe metal or wood because you can construct a jackshaft between motor and primary drive. Back gears on a metal lathe are terrific and with the right dri lube can run for years without wearing out. (10" atlas lathe head used for 2' diameter lathe for twenty years in a turning only shop. the lathe in the picture)

most of the older metal lathes it is easy to find cheap faceplates and chucks for because the threads are standards. they will alll take MT tooling something that many older cheap side wood lathes do not do.

Because they are built to turn metal they will hold up to large overhung turnings (I have repaired several spindles from older wood lathes that were used for chucking even parts for a pepper grinder when the operator got a catch and bent the spindle. some broken at the drive pulleys.)

I still have a "metal lathe" that has been used for wood since purchased new in 1949 for custom wood turnings it has turned Millions(I have the newspaper article) of parts.

metal lathes are really just pattern makers lathes that didn't make the grade LOL.

Had to add: 3ph is easily handled with a vfd for under 150 bucks.


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## 228861 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey I would like to say that what ever you buy, don't buy newer craftsman lathes because you need cast iron to dampen vibration. If it's heavy you will find it more enjoyble to turn.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

I'll sell you my 50's Craftsman lathe but shipping might be a killer, ha!


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

I'll weigh in here. I have 55 years of experience with both wood and metal lathes. I have an older late 1940s Delta 12" wood lathe and two metal lathes, one small Unimat and one larger 7" Maximat.

You CAN turn wood on a metal lathe. Advantages: make absolutely straight cuts for dowels, etc., work with precision where needed. You will need to rig up a woodworking type tool rest bolted to the movable "carriage" that holds the metal cutting tool. Negatives: turnings will have to within the limits of "swing" of the metal lathe which will most likely be less than a normal wood lathe of 12", and as mentioned above, wood dust will tend to mix with the oil on the bed to clog up things and will have to be cleaned up often. No "outside" turning capability on the headstock.

A dedicated wood lathe - IF you buy a 12 " swing light industrial type with these features - will offer you the ability to turn "outside" the headstock, will accomodate standard Morse tapers (most likely a #2 Morse taper) on the headstock and the tailstock so you can use standard lathe attachments like ball bearing centers, 1/2" Jacob's type drill chuck, etc., and offer you a larger swing over the bed than most metal lathes you could buy.

If you have your eye on turning bowls, one thing to keep in mind is the larger the turning diameter and mass of the turning, the more vibration and shaking you will encounter when you begin turning as the wood blank will be out of balance. This can get quite severe on large turnings. For this reason a large heavier lathe will be of an advantage to you. On lighter lathes you will have to weight them down or bolt them to the floor. In the past I have turned a heavy disk about 25 to 30 inches in diameter on the outside of the headstock of my late 1940 era Delta 12 inch lathe and had to fight this until the wood blank was finally rounded and became reasonably balanced. Of course you must reduce the RPM of the turning as you increase the diameter to keep the surface speed in the proper range.

I like the older iron and have a lot of it in my shop. You get a lot of machine for less money and I do enjoy refurbishing them and bring them back to "like new" condition.

Good luck on your choice!

Planeman


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

Thanks!

I'm starting to feel a little less nervous about making the wrong choice, which is good. It's just a shop tool and I've changed those out frequently enough to know it's no big deal.

Here's a Powermatic 90. Crazy? Much more than what I had originally thought about spending, but if it's a slam dunk …

https://providence.craigslist.org/tls/5191907591.html


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

That Powermatic looks like a nice machine. If you can scrape up the money (I'm sure he will bargain down some), *grab it*! I have learned over the years that you soon forget what you had to pay for a good machine but you have to live with what you got for a very long time. For bowl turning, that Powermatic would be perfect. I wish I had it!

Planeman


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## daddywoofdawg (Feb 1, 2014)

I think it was this group I belong to https://www.facebook.com/groups/375083072535895/,there is a guy on here has like 10 PM 45's he wants to sell, starting at 350.00 for needs paint and polish,maybe new cord etc. and up.he buys them from schools. Join,and then post a want to buy He'll respond.I forget his name or I'd give it to you.If not him, there are others on there that can help you.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> Here s a Powermatic 90. Crazy? Much more than what I had originally thought about spending, but if it s a slam dunk …
> https://providence.craigslist.org/tls/5191907591.html
> - toddbeaulieu


Slam dunk.


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

Ok. I emailed him and I'm now in scurry mode, trying to figure out what I can sell!


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

I raised the cash! Sold my road bike (too fat to use any more) and a bunch of misc junk. My Wife is getting a MAJOR kick out of watching me scramble for this. We really had reign me in on my unbridled purchasing so this had to come out of my budget plus selling my old stuff. Just waiting for his return call…


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Yeah I decided my hobby should pay for itself so now I take on the occasional woodworking job or fix up and sell machines I already own. It's satisfying. Congrats on the lathe. The bad news, buying it was the cheap part. Now you need turning tools, chucks, there is no end to it.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Yup … the lathe is just the DOWNPAYMENT!


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## Dullchisel (Sep 10, 2015)

I have a Delta Milwaukee lathe from late fortys and absolutely love it. I repainted it as well as installed a new wooden stand with sand in the bottom and also rewired the motor. I honestly don't think you can go wrong with an old lathe. There are several out there for sale and usually a decent price. The only thing I would advise u is to stay away from the older craftsman lathes that used a pipe for the bed. Good luck!


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

I was getting quite nervous, but finally got hold of the guy with the #90 and I'm all set for a Saturday morning pickup. His #90, while almost twice the price of the #45s and 1/3 the price of a newer, gold #90 that just surfaced seems to be a excellent shape so I really had my head set on it.

Hoping it won't be too difficult to take the top off so we can get it in my pickup. Trying to secure a "volunteer" buddy now. I got a jet slow sharpening system with some jigs for use with my chisels.

Finally, there's a guy locally with 33 Sorbys that look perfect for $500. Just need to raise that cash and I should well on my way!










Thanks again for the help folks! Hopefully I didn't overbuy and end up using this to it's potential.

To those following up after the cl ad has expired, here's the #90:


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

For just getting into turning… you sure are going at it in a big way 

Cheers,
Brad


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

On the bright side, you won't have to upgrade your lathe, ever.


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

Hooray for me! Brought the #90 home yesterday and picked up the chisels today.

Can anyone recommend a chuck? The Novas look nice, but there are multiple models and I'm sure what to get. Can't findything on CL yet.

Thank you.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

> Can anyone recommend a chuck? The Novas look nice, but there are multiple models and I m sure what to get.


I have a Nova Infinity and two Nova G3's … very happy with all of them.


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## bwstout (Jun 25, 2015)

Check out the Hurricane chucks they are outstanding and want cost a lot. I have nova's and barracuda's but prefer the Hurricane chucks over all the rest. http://www.thewoodturningstore.com/categories/Hurricane-HTC125-5-Chuck-5_6.html


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## toddbeaulieu (Mar 5, 2010)

Ok, so that's two options so far. Thanks guys. I see that Sorby has a fancy looking Patriot chuck that's only $220. Not sure what the diffs are among these three.

Sadly, I blew through my entire budget this weekend. But … the Sorbys that I bought … I just looked them all up and priced them. For $500 I got just north of $2k in chisels! And I have no idea how to use any of them!

So my first impression with the PM 90:

After watching videos on FWW I sure wish I had variable speed that doesn't rely on the reeves drive. It's obviously much more of a hassle than a knob. Also wish I had reversing. I was forced how to hand crank the outboard wheel while forcing the lever before I could even turn it on the first time. And 4 more times after that! It's literally the only machine in my shop that I can't use the "off" button!


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

If money were no object I would buy the Nova Infinity but people are typically pleased with whatever high end chuck they buy whether Nova, Hurricane, Oneway, EWT, ect. And yeah, variable speed is the bomb.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

Whoa, Todd you got that #90. Brother you done good. They don't make tools like that anymore. You done good …real good !!


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