# Bowl Gouge Grind Question



## UncleDave (Feb 24, 2015)

I have a Wood River bowl gouge I'm having some trouble with. Unfortunately, I've created this problem myself. I was doing some research and discovered the Irish grind and Ellsworth grind. I tried to modify my bowl gouge to give its wings a more swept back grind. Well it didn't work I think because of the v-shaped flute my gouge has. Here are some pictures of the gouge as it is now.

Pictures are in the next post. I got rid of them to eliminate duplicates.

As I think you can see, the wings don't look right. At least they don't look right to me. It's like they stand up too tall, or the edge is too tall at the back of the grind.

So I'm looking for advice or feedback from experiences others have had. I already looked through some threads I've found on lumberjocks and haven't had a lot of luck. I found this thread and it was along the lines of what I'm looking for, but that person wasn't having the same problems.

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/31512

I have a Vari-Grind, which seems to be a popular tool, and I use that with a Wolverine jig and a low speed grinding wheel. So I have all of the right equipment (I think), but I just can't get the edge I want.

Is it difficult to get the swept back wings with a v-shaped flute? Please help! I'm going crazy over here!


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## UncleDave (Feb 24, 2015)

Dangit! I hate it when my images get rotated. Here are the corrected ones.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

60 degrees? 
http://www.thompsonlathetools.com/images/extra/Sharpening.pdf


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## UncleDave (Feb 24, 2015)

I also found this page with some grinds and descriptions, but I can't figure out how to achieve the final grind I want.

http://www.woodcentral.com/articles/newarticles/articles_934.shtml


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## Nubsnstubs (Aug 30, 2013)

It looks to me like you stopped too soon on the grind. You need to sweep from one edge to the other until you get the swept back grind. It also looks like you're grinding only the nose. ........ Jerry (in Tucson)


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

Top of wings not swept back enough, not sure what Oneway instructions say today. They have a video at their site.

Ellsworth, Irish, Texas, and side grind start with measuring and making a line on top of flutes ¾"; turn tool over and grind flutes away to your mark. Install tool in Vari grind jig, to either 1 3/4" or 2" (not sure what instructions say today) adjust leg and V-arm and grind bevel to 60 degrees. I work on wings first of flutes (both sides) then rotate tool to tip. May find it eaiser to free hand gring away wings, I do!

This video show clear up what am trying to say, there may be others too1


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Yep, the youtube video Wildwood linked is pretty good. Describes your issue and how to correct it. Do not let the wing edges become concave, or dip down. At worst they should be straight, most recommend a very slight convex shape of the edge.


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## UncleDave (Feb 24, 2015)

> 60 degrees?
> http://www.thompsonlathetools.com/images/extra/Sharpening.pdf
> 
> - waho6o9


No, this one is set at about 45 degrees.


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## UncleDave (Feb 24, 2015)

> Top of wings not swept back enough, not sure what Oneway instructions say today. They have a video at their site.
> 
> Ellsworth, Irish, Texas, and side grind start with measuring and making a line on top of flutes ¾"; turn tool over and grind flutes away to your mark. Install tool in Vari grind jig, to either 1 3/4" or 2" (not sure what instructions say today) adjust leg and V-arm and grind bevel to 60 degrees. I work on wings first of flutes (both sides) then rotate tool to tip. May find it eaiser to free hand gring away wings, I do!
> 
> ...


I think you've provided me enough information here, Wildwood. Thanks! The ironic thing is that the YouTube video you linked is the same one I watched that got me in this pickle! My main concern with that guy's video is that the two bowl gouges he shows do not have the same flute. One is more U-shaped and the other V-shaped. I don't know how much that matters, though.

My main problems seem to be the following.
- Pretty sure I don't have the depth set right for my tool as it extends out of the Vari-Grind jig. I'm going to bring it back to about 1-3/4" 
- I will try to keep the tool turning so I sweep back the wings further
- I had the angle set wrong for the type of grind I'm looking for. I'll set it next time for about 60 degrees

I'll post here with follow up pictures and hilarious anecdotes about how I nearly lost a digit.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

" Pretty sure I don't have the depth set right for my tool as it extends out of the Vari-Grind jig. I'm going to bring it back to about 1-3/4"

I'm not sure why you're guessing.

The one I use requires 2" back and that's where I set them at using a jig. Then move the arm
to the appropriate location and the results are great.


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## LeeMills (Nov 2, 2014)

I tend to agree with Jerry, stay away from the nose (I think that is what he was saying). Spend more time just on the wings. Although not the same problem here is a short video by John Lucas on correcting grinds.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

When bought the Vari-grind jig it came with instructions for both fingernail and sign grind. My jig so old does not have notches for setting leg, but use about same setting you see in the video. My instructions that came with jig differ a little but no problem. Have to deviate from instruction on some of my old short tools but not a problem for me. As long as follow what they provide today will get consistency.

http://www.oneway.ca/pdf/vari-grind.pdf

Have no idea about his jig set up just use the basic wolverine system with optional Vari-grind jig. Might be just my imagination but free handing the wings of my tool on a 46-gtit wheel which seems easier and faster than CBN wheel. Of course not explaining myself on a video while doing that. l jig up my gouge and go to 80-grit wheel for final sharpening complete gouge.

Have more than one bowl gouge with different shape flutes, bevel angles, and profiles ranging from 45, 55, and 60 degrees. I like a single bevel some turners swear by double bevels because it works for them. In the video he did not worry about the slight bevel on bottom of the tool sharpened. Like him would not worry about it that will disappear as you resharpen your tool.

I thought Steve did an outstanding job of explaining the process. Fact that different methods and equipment gets your where you need to be should not be a problem! Steve also sells chucks, tools and other supplies.

http://www.thewoodturningstore.com/categories/CBN-Grinding-Wheels-62.html?sid=7ab8e522fd18bf4fbd43262808d6c352

I also like John Lucas video's when there is sound or no static. John is aware of the sound & static issues. Besides being an outstanding woodturner and teacher also an outstanding photographer.


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## NormLz (Jan 20, 2014)

UncleDave, I use the Work Sharp WS3000 with the Tormek SVD-185 jig. I set the jig to 58 degrees and it works perfect. I just sharpened my 3/8 bowl gouge (Crowns David Ellsworth powder metal) and it is better than when I bought the gouge. See attached photo.


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## UncleDave (Feb 24, 2015)

Thanks for all of the feedback. I set the depth of my gouge in the Vari-Grind jig to 1-3/4" and the angle at 60 degrees. Here is the gouge as it rests against the wheel before I start grinding the wings.










Then I got to work sweeping the wings further back and I have the results here. I don't have the wings finished completely, as you can see they have a little concave profile that I will take care of. But I can't wait to use it now.



















Thanks again to everyone for their input and assistance.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Good job Uncle Dave!


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## Nubsnstubs (Aug 30, 2013)

Looks like you got it. Just remember it only takes one sweep to resharpen your gouge from now on, unless you change something. . ......... Jerry (in Tucson)


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

Looks great how is the tool working for you now?


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## UncleDave (Feb 24, 2015)

> Looks like you got it. Just remember it only takes one sweep to resharpen your gouge from now on, unless you change something. . ......... Jerry (in Tucson)
> 
> - Nubsnstubs


I doubt I'll be changing anything with this now Jerry. This turned into enough of an adventure because I tried to make a change in the first place.


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## Nubsnstubs (Aug 30, 2013)

Unc, since you have a Wolverine system, get yourself a piece of aluminum angle. Measure the distance from the front of the v pocket on the arm to the base. Cut the aluminum that length. Now, it's a lot easier to make changes because when you need that particular setup again, just put the angle on the arm bar, slide it up towards the base, lock it and you're set. Make sure you mark the aluminum for the angle and gouge you set it up for….. Confused??? If you need a visual, I'll post a picture. ................ Jerry (in Tucson)


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## UncleDave (Feb 24, 2015)

Nope, not confused at all. Thanks for the tip, Jerry.


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