# Hot Rodding a Harbor Freight 2hp Dust Collector



## Visions (Sep 12, 2011)

*Project Overview*

I received my HF 2hp DC a couple days ago, and resisting the urge to start the mods right away, I assembled it 100% as is stated n the manual. This way, I can get a good baseline as to how it performs from the factory and how well my mods work to improve it's performance.

I will be looking at the improvements in a few different ways:
#1- Fine Dust Collection: How well it collects fine dust and particles vs letting them pass through the filter and into the air in the shop
#2- DC Efficiency: How much dust and debris is collected in the collection bag vs the filter
#3- Separator efficiency: How much dust and debris is collected in the separator vs how much passes to the collector
#4-Noise-How much more or less noise the system generates after modifications
#5-Cost- How much each modification would cost the average person if they were to purchase the materials used in each upgrade
#6-Overall performance gain or losss- This will be somewhat subjective and based on my opinion to some degree. But basically an overall judgement of how much performance each upgrade has netted or cost the system.

I am looking for a reliable way to measure the flow of the system so I can give an accurate reading as to how each modification effects the air-flow. I will include this as soon as I find a solution or someone makes a suggestion.

I'm hoping to gather all the information needed for someone who wants to maybe get a bit more performance from their collector without spending a ton of money or upgrading to a larger collector.

If anyone has suggestions for modifications, please post them in the comments. I'd love to hear them and any I like, I'll most likely try and report back with the results.

Thanks for reading!


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## SASmith (Mar 22, 2010)

Visions said:


> *Project Overview*
> 
> I received my HF 2hp DC a couple days ago, and resisting the urge to start the mods right away, I assembled it 100% as is stated n the manual. This way, I can get a good baseline as to how it performs from the factory and how well my mods work to improve it's performance.
> 
> ...


I use a kill a watt meter to test the amperage of my DC before and after each mod. The more restriction you have from too much pipe or a clogged filter the less amps/watts used.


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## DIYaholic (Jan 28, 2011)

Visions said:


> *Project Overview*
> 
> I received my HF 2hp DC a couple days ago, and resisting the urge to start the mods right away, I assembled it 100% as is stated n the manual. This way, I can get a good baseline as to how it performs from the factory and how well my mods work to improve it's performance.
> 
> ...


I too am interested in observing/calculating/documenting air flow/CFMs! I have the 2HP HF DC with the Wynn 35A274NANO cartridge filter. I have not done the "Hot Rod" modification yet ie. reposition motor/impeller, Thein Baffle, ducting to/for each machine/tool. That will happen once my air cleaner is finished & installed and I finish a REAL WW project.

I will be watching this thread for your solution for measuring air flow/CFMs along with your progress & results.

Good luck,


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Visions said:


> *Project Overview*
> 
> I received my HF 2hp DC a couple days ago, and resisting the urge to start the mods right away, I assembled it 100% as is stated n the manual. This way, I can get a good baseline as to how it performs from the factory and how well my mods work to improve it's performance.
> 
> ...


I love these threads.

How much do you want to know ?
How badly do you want to know it ?
What are you willing to spend to find out ??

LINK

I'll be watching ….


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Visions said:


> *Project Overview*
> 
> I received my HF 2hp DC a couple days ago, and resisting the urge to start the mods right away, I assembled it 100% as is stated n the manual. This way, I can get a good baseline as to how it performs from the factory and how well my mods work to improve it's performance.
> 
> ...


Here is what I did with mine:

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/32589
It works great


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## ptweedy (Feb 9, 2009)

Visions said:


> *Project Overview*
> 
> I received my HF 2hp DC a couple days ago, and resisting the urge to start the mods right away, I assembled it 100% as is stated n the manual. This way, I can get a good baseline as to how it performs from the factory and how well my mods work to improve it's performance.
> 
> ...


I have seen a cone like devise that is attached to the inlet hose that can be slid toward and away from the hose end to restrict the quanity of air entering the inlet. A mercry tube that measures vacuum could then be inserted into the air stream and finally a amp meter could read the power lines to graph the whole works. I have seen this equipment being used on a website about how big the runs of pipe should be in a vacumme set up. Dont use the hand over the inlet method it is very hard on the manicure. phil


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## rkober (Feb 15, 2012)

Visions said:


> *Project Overview*
> 
> I received my HF 2hp DC a couple days ago, and resisting the urge to start the mods right away, I assembled it 100% as is stated n the manual. This way, I can get a good baseline as to how it performs from the factory and how well my mods work to improve it's performance.
> 
> ...


A water manometer should provide you with a way to quantify your performance. I would not mess with mercury when you can do it with water. You can do a search for the theory as it's a little sketchy in my mind after 20+ years since fluid dynamics class.


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## Visions (Sep 12, 2011)

Visions said:


> *Project Overview*
> 
> I received my HF 2hp DC a couple days ago, and resisting the urge to start the mods right away, I assembled it 100% as is stated n the manual. This way, I can get a good baseline as to how it performs from the factory and how well my mods work to improve it's performance.
> 
> ...


I should have thought o the manometer. I've used them before on the flow-bench at the engine shop I used to work at. Been about 10 years or so since then, so I can't quite recall specifics on how to set it up, but I'm sure a google search will lead me to the info I need. And no, I don't plan to play with mercury. (can you even obtain it legally now?)
Thanks for that!

Metering current draw would be a good help to see what I have for resistance in the system, but I don't think it's a good way to judge flow. It would tell me when I have reduced resistance in the system, but I still wouldn't have any idea how much flow I had gained. Though it will be a useful tool in mapping overall performance gains in the system.

Thanks


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## Visions (Sep 12, 2011)

Visions said:


> *Project Overview*
> 
> I received my HF 2hp DC a couple days ago, and resisting the urge to start the mods right away, I assembled it 100% as is stated n the manual. This way, I can get a good baseline as to how it performs from the factory and how well my mods work to improve it's performance.
> 
> ...


Bert, you have done basically what I am going to do, with the exception of the cartridge filter. I simply do not have the $168 for the filter right now. Someday.

I have some good ideas I'm going to try, like Thien vs Cyclone, which is something I feel a lot of guys wonder about, whether it would really be of benefit to step up to a true cyclone from a Thien baffle. It's something I plan to find out, as I'm just too curious not to!
And whatever works best, I'll keep! I have a buddy who is going to pick up a HF DC soon, and I'll sell him whichever I don't keep for what I have in it for parts.

I'm trying to decide between buying a cyclone from Cyclone Central in the UK, or making my own from sheet steel or possibly acrylic sheeting.


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## Martyroc (Feb 1, 2012)

Visions said:


> *Project Overview*
> 
> I received my HF 2hp DC a couple days ago, and resisting the urge to start the mods right away, I assembled it 100% as is stated n the manual. This way, I can get a good baseline as to how it performs from the factory and how well my mods work to improve it's performance.
> 
> ...


I can't wait to see what you do, I only have 2 shop vacs myself, and I am making a cycling dust collector. As soon as I can come across a good motor and a squirrel cage blower I will incorporate that, which is my final destination. I created a blog if your interested here's the link.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Visions said:


> *Project Overview*
> 
> I received my HF 2hp DC a couple days ago, and resisting the urge to start the mods right away, I assembled it 100% as is stated n the manual. This way, I can get a good baseline as to how it performs from the factory and how well my mods work to improve it's performance.
> 
> ...


You can buy a decent cyclone on Ebay for around $200.00 ( the last time I checked around a year ago)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cyclone-Separator-Dust-Collector-/270423194251?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ef67a7a8b

I have been thinking about buying one but my installation, as it is, gives me 100% satisfaction and total I spend probably less than $250 for it


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## bowtie (Dec 23, 2011)

Visions said:


> *Project Overview*
> 
> I received my HF 2hp DC a couple days ago, and resisting the urge to start the mods right away, I assembled it 100% as is stated n the manual. This way, I can get a good baseline as to how it performs from the factory and how well my mods work to improve it's performance.
> 
> ...


Kenny, I'm curious about flow difference cyclone vs thien. You can see my H.F.D.C. modification at bowties projects. What ever you choose build a system that allows easy can removal and gets most debris into the can.
I hated the inconvenience and mess of emptying the bag, and it really fills the shop up with dust when you proctastinate and over fill the bag.
I have only about 20 feet of 4 " pvc with drops to 5 machines and a rockler expanding hose so my dc's performance didn't seem to be hurt by my mod.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Visions said:


> *Project Overview*
> 
> I received my HF 2hp DC a couple days ago, and resisting the urge to start the mods right away, I assembled it 100% as is stated n the manual. This way, I can get a good baseline as to how it performs from the factory and how well my mods work to improve it's performance.
> 
> ...


" What ever you choose build a system that allows easy can removal and gets most debris into the can" 
This is exactly what I believe I have achieved with "my " modifications ( in fact many other people ideas put together).
Since my "total make over" I have emptied the trashcan countless time but the plastic bag still has no more than may be 2 inches of fine dust at the bottom.


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## History (Dec 22, 2012)

Visions said:


> *Project Overview*
> 
> I received my HF 2hp DC a couple days ago, and resisting the urge to start the mods right away, I assembled it 100% as is stated n the manual. This way, I can get a good baseline as to how it performs from the factory and how well my mods work to improve it's performance.
> 
> ...


I've seen what Bert and others have done with the HF 2 HP DC and I have allways wondered if operating a motor vertically that was meant to operate horizontally was ok to do. So far from what I've been able to find on the internet for information suggests that it's not ok because a horizontal motor does not have thrust bearings that a vertical motor does. Do not expect the motor to have a full life.


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## Visions (Sep 12, 2011)

*Step #1: Larger Filter Bag*

When I ordered my DC, I also managed to score another filter bag for it (Harbor Freight owed me a credit for some items I returned). So, being the crafty guy I am, I picked up some heavy duty sewing needles and thread for my vintage Singer sewing machine (I inherited it, and it's handy, so don't laugh!), and I'm going to get to sewing me up a double-wide filter bag here real soon.

I still need to figure out how to make a manometer to measure the flow, so as soon as that's done, I'm going to test the factory bag, and then test the "after-market" bag and see what the difference is.

I think it's obvious that it should net a positive result, but I'm wondering how much of a difference it will make. American Fabric Filter has a cloth to air ratio calculator, and for 900cfm, they recommend a minimum of 60 cubic feet for "good" flow, 90 for better, and 180 for best. So I'm anxious to see what will happen when I nearly double the filter area.

If It's successful, I may opt to do the same with a pair of 1 micron bags from Highland. At $30 a piece, they seem like a pretty good deal, and I've heard good reports on them for catching fine dust. As well, the HF DC Board on WoodNet recommends them too.
It may not end up being a cartridge filter, but at $100 less, it's fine with me! And 1 micron is a lot better than 5 from the factory bag.

I'll post pics and results in a few days once I get the bag sewed up and a manometer made.

On a side note, I plan to do all testing using the same "test pipe" attached to the DC. 
The main test pipe will be 10' of 4" PVC (the thin, light blue, drainage type)
Then, I will make the same test through 10' of flex hose pulled as straight as possible.
Once I get my ducting run, I'll do testing at the end of my longest run, document it's length, the bends involved and other info, and post that as well.

Hopefully, I'll be able to test the difference between a section of PVC that is heated and bent at 90 degrees vs a long 90 degree sweep bend

I'm just looking to see what we lose depending on the type of pipe, flex hose and ducting that is used. And also the difference in flow between PVC and flex hose in general.

The more I figure out, the better off we'll all be.


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## DIYaholic (Jan 28, 2011)

Visions said:


> *Step #1: Larger Filter Bag*
> 
> When I ordered my DC, I also managed to score another filter bag for it (Harbor Freight owed me a credit for some items I returned). So, being the crafty guy I am, I picked up some heavy duty sewing needles and thread for my vintage Singer sewing machine (I inherited it, and it's handy, so don't laugh!), and I'm going to get to sewing me up a double-wide filter bag here real soon.
> 
> ...


Sewing can make you famous…..Betsy Ross! Lol. JK

Looking forward to seeing the results of your testing.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Visions said:


> *Step #1: Larger Filter Bag*
> 
> When I ordered my DC, I also managed to score another filter bag for it (Harbor Freight owed me a credit for some items I returned). So, being the crafty guy I am, I picked up some heavy duty sewing needles and thread for my vintage Singer sewing machine (I inherited it, and it's handy, so don't laugh!), and I'm going to get to sewing me up a double-wide filter bag here real soon.
> 
> ...


"The more I figure out, the better off we'll all be."

To a point.

If and when you establish that commercially-available upgrades-or oft-touted modifications-either don't help, or actually decrease suction (ie, messing with the Conventional Wisdom), you could get bumped off LOL !


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## Visions (Sep 12, 2011)

*"Upgraded" ducting at a discounted price? Sounds good to me!*

I had planned to use the thin-wall PVC made for drains and such to run my ducting, and I figured to save some money I would just bend the pipe wherever I could get away with it to save on buying bends and such.

Well, a light went off in my head today, and I realized I've forgotten about a very relevant resource for this project: my Mom and step-father both work in the HVAC field! Ah-hah!

So, I made a call to my Mom today, who works in the office at a large HVAC supplier, and asked her about spiral wound steel galvanized pipe.
It turns out I can get the steel pipe from her cheaper than I could even the low-cost thin-wall PVC, SWEET!

Now I'm in the process of measuring and figuring where I'll run all my ducting so I can put in an order in the next few days.

Hey, I'll take high-grade spiral-wound galvanized steel piping over PVC any day!


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## Koa (Aug 22, 2011)

Visions said:


> *"Upgraded" ducting at a discounted price? Sounds good to me!*
> 
> I had planned to use the thin-wall PVC made for drains and such to run my ducting, and I figured to save some money I would just bend the pipe wherever I could get away with it to save on buying bends and such.
> 
> ...


Good thing that ole light went off /or came on, keep us posted on the progress,that is somthing I will be needing to install in my shop


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## DIYaholic (Jan 28, 2011)

Visions said:


> *"Upgraded" ducting at a discounted price? Sounds good to me!*
> 
> I had planned to use the thin-wall PVC made for drains and such to run my ducting, and I figured to save some money I would just bend the pipe wherever I could get away with it to save on buying bends and such.
> 
> ...


It is like Divine Intervention. It's great when the people we have to deal with, through no fault of our own, turn out to actually be of value!!! Lol.

As the saying goes; It ain't what you know, but Who you know!!!

Keep pushing forward! There are others following you closely, perhaps tailgating!!!


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## Viking (Aug 26, 2009)

Visions said:


> *"Upgraded" ducting at a discounted price? Sounds good to me!*
> 
> I had planned to use the thin-wall PVC made for drains and such to run my ducting, and I figured to save some money I would just bend the pipe wherever I could get away with it to save on buying bends and such.
> 
> ...


Kenny;

I am your long lost brother from Texas! Tell Mom I will send her my pipe needs in the morning.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

Visions said:


> *"Upgraded" ducting at a discounted price? Sounds good to me!*
> 
> I had planned to use the thin-wall PVC made for drains and such to run my ducting, and I figured to save some money I would just bend the pipe wherever I could get away with it to save on buying bends and such.
> 
> ...


I am Kenny's brother so that must make us brothers too…..right? I am surprised it took that light all this time to go off in you head. I am seriously collecting now. I have ordered a Clear Vue cyclone. they had a special with free shipping that ended president's say. They emailed and said they had such a response that things were back ordered so it will be another week to ship (next Monday). The controller has shipped. I think we should all be looking to save our lungs and our lives with a collector. I just amazes me that people will spend a lot of extra to buy a new saw because it has a riving knife and won't buy a dust collector and air cleaners. I guess they were going to buy a saw anyway and they just don't plan to buy a DC. I don't know. I figure I could live with 9 fingers or even one hand but no lungs could be a trick.


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## Visions (Sep 12, 2011)

Visions said:


> *"Upgraded" ducting at a discounted price? Sounds good to me!*
> 
> I had planned to use the thin-wall PVC made for drains and such to run my ducting, and I figured to save some money I would just bend the pipe wherever I could get away with it to save on buying bends and such.
> 
> ...


Grandpa,
I agree with you on saving the lungs, they're very important to sustaining life!

However, riving knives and tablesaw safety has become very frontline since the advent of SawStop technology and the mandate of the riving knife on all new model saws. and with all this infomation being thrown at every woodworker from every angle, it's no wonder that it's one of the first safety upgrades people make.
Also, an amputation or severe laceration via tablesaw is an immediate consequence, it doesn't take years to do damage, and it can happen to anyone at any age on any day of the week. This makes it very "real" to lots of guys, especially those who have known someone who had an accident, or have had an accident or close call themselves.

Dust in the shop takes much, much longer to have any real effects, and where the effects aren't usually as visible as a tablesaw injury, nor do they make headlines in magazines and other publications, it often doesn't seem as real a consequence as cutting off a hand or finger.

Also, many will look back in history and say "Gee, my grandfather never used dust collection, and he lived a long life. Why do I need it?" And on the other side, there are those who's grandfather or father was missing a finger from a tablesaw, making it a much more realistic and possible injury to them.

Thanks to all for the replies! You guys are awesome.


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