# Porter Cable 4216 Dovetail Jig And Non-PC Bits



## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

Greetings,

I have the Porter Cable 4216 Dovetail Jig and PC provides two Bits (not counting the Minatare Template and 1/4" Bits):

#43776PC, 17/32", 7 degree, Dovetail Bit, 1/2" Shank

#43743PC, 13/32", Straight Bit, 1/2" Shank

I am of the belief that PC is not going to be around forever and nor can I believe that these are the only two Bits on the Planet capable of making Through Dovetails with this Jig. That said, I have reached out to Freud, Whiteside and CMT and none had comparable Bits.

Is anyone using the 4216 Jig to create Through Dovetails and not PC Bits? I've also scoured the Internet looking for a cross reference guide to no avail.

Many thanks,

Lyman


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

Find the sizes, and correct degrees on the DT bits, make a cheat sheet so you can then check sites at the bigger places selling bits. I know in the past they often had "sets" for PC 4212's, but in the last several years I don't see that language anymore, but all of the bits that were in the sets are still available as singles. I think they cut back on specialty packaging, but still have the inventory, just sold per piece now. I see Brian is still having bits marked as for Keller, and Akeda jigs, but they are just single bits. Maybe you are correct and B$D has ruined a good name.

I like Holbren for Whitesides.

https://www.holbren.com/dovetail-router-bits/


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

Though they are not the cheapest, I'm farily confident that *Leigh* dovetailing bits will be around for quite a while


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> That said, I have reached out to Freud, Whiteside and CMT and none had comparable Bits.
> 
> - LGLDSR73


I have these.


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## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> Find the sizes, and correct degrees on the DT bits, make a cheat sheet so you can then check sites at the bigger places selling bits. I know in the past they often had "sets" for PC 4212 s, but in the last several years I don t see that language anymore, but all of the bits that were in the sets are still available as singles. I think they cut back on specialty packaging, but still have the inventory, just sold per piece now. I see Brian is still having bits marked as for Keller, and Akeda jigs, but they are just single bits. Maybe you are correct and B$D has ruined a good name.
> 
> I like Holbren for Whitesides.
> 
> ...


Thanks Steve, and thanks for the links which I will definitely check out. I'm hoping this PC Jig wasn't a mistake…I bought it pretty much specifically for Through DT''s.

Best,
Lyman


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## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> Find the sizes, and correct degrees on the DT bits, make a cheat sheet so you can then check sites at the bigger places selling bits. I know in the past they often had "sets" for PC 4212 s, but in the last several years I don t see that language anymore, but all of the bits that were in the sets are still available as singles. I think they cut back on specialty packaging, but still have the inventory, just sold per piece now. I see Brian is still having bits marked as for Keller, and Akeda jigs, but they are just single bits. Maybe you are correct and B$D has ruined a good name.
> 
> I like Holbren for Whitesides.
> 
> ...


Thanks Steve, and thanks for the links which I will definitely check out. I'm hoping this PC Jig wasn't a mistake…I bought it pretty much specifically for Through DT''s.

Best,
Lyman


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## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> Though they are not the cheapest, I m farily confident that *Leigh* dovetailing bits will be around for quite a while
> 
> - LittleBlackDuck


Thank you, Sir! I will check them out!
Best,
Lyman


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## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> That said, I have reached out to Freud, Whiteside and CMT and none had comparable Bits.
> 
> - LGLDSR73
> 
> ...


Hi Rich! That's great news! You've had no issues making Through DT's with the PC Jig? I can't make out the P/N on the Whiteside, could you please provide it.

Thank you for taking the time to photograph them, really appreciated.

Best,

Lyman


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

B&D kills everything it buys. Sad.


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## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> B&D kills everything it buys. Sad.
> 
> - ibewjon


How true.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

The Whiteside looks like D7-531.

https://www.whitesiderouterbits.com/products/D7-531

There are a gazillion of those PC jigs out there (I have one). If PC goes away, somebody will be making those bits. It's a common size.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

Thinking back to the jig itself, I don't think there's any reason a 1/2" or 3/8" dovetail bit couldn't work, if those are easier to find.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Hi Rich! That s great news! You ve had no issues making Through DT s with the PC Jig? I can t make out the P/N on the Whiteside, could you please provide it.
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to photograph them, really appreciated.
> 
> - LGLDSR73


Although the Porter Cable bits included with my jig don't suck, I do find the Whiteside and Freud bits to be superior. BTW, why do I have both brands? Ever go to the store and see something you already have, but forgot you have it, so you buy another? I guess I did that.

Freud and Whiteside make both bits, and I'm sure others do as well. The critical specifications are a 7º, 17/32" dovetail bit and a 13/32" straight bit. The mini dovetail bit is 7º, 9/32" and the mini straight is an easy-to-find 3/16". That mini dovetail doesn't seem to be as common, but Amana has one that matches the specs.

The Whiteside number is D7-531. They also make the D7-530 with a 1/4" shank, if that's ever helpful. Their straight bit is the 1064A.

Freud's bits are the 22-115 dovetail and the 12-112 straight.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Thinking back to the jig itself, I don t think there s any reason a 1/2" or 3/8" dovetail bit couldn t work, if those are easier to find.
> 
> - jonah


Those won't work with the PC jig. It's designed for the 7º, 17/32" bit only.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

While I have my parts box out for the jig, I figured I'd share my setup block for the half-blind operation. As I've mentioned, the only factor in joint fit for the half-blind is the cut depth. Of course, if the tail board thickness changes, you have to account for that with the template location, but the cut depth will be the same.

The PC jig has a gauge on the side to set the bit depth for half-blinds. The idea is that you get the cut set up, and then adjust the stop on the gauge to it. What I don't like about that gauge is that it's small and allows the router to rock a little and that can affect the setting.

Instead I prefer this sort of block. I've made them for each of my Leigh DR4 Pro half-blind bits as well. This board is milled to the exact thickness to set the router cut depth perfectly (I just measured this one at 0.590", but you'll want to sneak up on the perfect fit on your own). I simply set it on a hard surface, and plunge the router bit down to touch, and it's set.

I use this board in my demos, and it's always perfect. No need to waste time doing a bunch of test cuts. Some seem to have difficulty comprehending that precise and repeatable settings like that are possible, but they are.


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## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> The Whiteside looks like D7-531.
> 
> https://www.whitesiderouterbits.com/products/D7-531
> 
> ...


Thanks Jonah. I just heard from Whitside a moment ago and the D7-531 is not compatible with the PC 4216 Jig, only the 4210 / 4212.

Best

Lyman


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## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> Thinking back to the jig itself, I don t think there s any reason a 1/2" or 3/8" dovetail bit couldn t work, if those are easier to find.
> 
> - jonah


Agreed, but which one? Right now it's looking like I'm locked into PC Bits for Through DT's and I can't wrap my head around that.

Best,

Lyman


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## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> Hi Rich! That s great news! You ve had no issues making Through DT s with the PC Jig? I can t make out the P/N on the Whiteside, could you please provide it.
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to photograph them, really appreciated.
> 
> ...


Hi Rich,
Are you sure about the Whiteside? Agreed that the specs match but I just heard from Whitside a moment ago and the D7-531 is not compatible with the PC 4216 Jig, only the 4210 / 4212.
Best ,
Lyman

EMAIL RECEIVED:

"Thank you for contacting us. Unfortunately, the D7-531 is not designed to fit the Porter Cable 4216 Dovetail Jig. I thought it was at first, but I had to double check. Let us know if you have any more questions.

Whiteside Machine"


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## gdaveg (Aug 1, 2020)

Got the same 22-115 Freud bit that Rich has, works on the PC Jig. Not sure which PC Jig Model # is in the AZ shop and am in WA right now.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Are you sure about the Whiteside? Agreed that the specs match but I just heard from Whitside a moment ago and the D7-531 is not compatible with the PC 4216 Jig, only the 4210 / 4212.
> Best ,
> Lyman
> 
> - LGLDSR73


Yes I'm sure. That's not correct. The only difference between the three PC models is the templates that are included-the base is the same for all three. The 4210 includes the half-blind template only. The 4212 adds the through template, and the 4216 adds it and the miniature template. But, there is no difference between the half-blind and through templates that shipped with your 4216 and the templates that come with the 4210 and 4212. I hope that makes sense.

I could go buy the through dovetail template for my 4210 and it would be identical to the 4212. Same with adding a miniature template to have the 4216 miniature option. They are simply different packaging options and pricing-it's cheaper to get the templates as part of the package than to buy them individually.

My guess is that they are confused about that and figured the 4216 meant miniature dovetails, and as I said earlier, neither Whiteside nor Freud appear to make the dovetail bit for the miniature template.


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## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> Are you sure about the Whiteside? Agreed that the specs match but I just heard from Whitside a moment ago and the D7-531 is not compatible with the PC 4216 Jig, only the 4210 / 4212.
> Best ,
> Lyman
> 
> ...


*THAT* makes sense. Thanks Rich!!!


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> *THAT* makes sense. Thanks Rich!!!
> 
> - LGLDSR73


Whew!

Oh, and for the record, the Amana bit that will work with the mini template is a good choice. Amana bits are in the same class as Freud and Whiteside.


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## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> *THAT* makes sense. Thanks Rich!!!
> 
> - LGLDSR73
> 
> ...


Thanks again! Finally settled!
Best,

Lyman


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

> Thinking back to the jig itself, I don t think there s any reason a 1/2" or 3/8" dovetail bit couldn t work, if those are easier to find.
> 
> - jonah
> 
> ...


If you're cutting the pins and tails at the same time using a bushing, does the diameter of the bit really matter? Wouldn't it just cut slightly larger pins and tails, which would then fit together?

I'll admit I haven't tried this at all, but conceptually it seems like it should work.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> If you re cutting the pins and tails at the same time using a bushing, does the diameter of the bit really matter? Wouldn t it just cut slightly larger pins and tails, which would then fit together?
> 
> I ll admit I haven t tried this at all, but conceptually it seems like it should work.
> 
> - jonah


Nope, it won't work. The fingers of the template are spaced for the 17/32" bit. If you use a smaller diameter bit you'll wind up with wide tails that won't fit into the narrow pin board slots.

Even on the Leigh DR4, which can use various dovetail bits for half-blinds, all of them have a 1/2" cut diameter-only the cut length varies, and hence the angles. It gives you more options to tune your joint to the board thickness.


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## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> If you re cutting the pins and tails at the same time using a bushing, does the diameter of the bit really matter? Wouldn t it just cut slightly larger pins and tails, which would then fit together?
> 
> I ll admit I haven t tried this at all, but conceptually it seems like it should work.
> 
> ...


Good to know, Rich. Thanks.

*UPDATE:*

Whiteside called me about 20 minutes ago and said (as you had) that the D7-531 will work with the 4216 without question.

Again, thanks!

Lyman


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## JohnDon (Mar 14, 2015)

> Though they are not the cheapest, I m farily confident that *Leigh* dovetailing bits will be around for quite a while
> 
> - LittleBlackDuck


While this is observation is undoubtedly true, mentioning it in this thread is beside the point and very misleading. Leigh dovetail bits are 8 degrees, and completely incompatible with the PC jig, which requires 7 degree bits. Had the OP followed your advice, he would have been frustrated and confounded with non-fitting joints, as well as wasting a chunk of change.


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