# IBC ROB COSMAN BLADE AND CHIP BREAKER THE FINEST BLADE MADE IN THE WORLD



## JoeLyddon

That's amazing!

Just buy a Super Blade instead of a New Plane!

Sounds like the way to go!

I'm going to have you look at all of my OLD planes when you visit… & see what you think…
(if you want, of course.)

Thank you for the great Review!


----------



## thedude50

your welcome joe I hope people find the review worthwhile


----------



## thedude50

oh ya of coarse we can set up a couple of your old planes no problem


----------



## JoeLyddon

*Only TWO?!* LOL

... hopefully, I will learn something so I can do it for the rest of'em. LOL


----------



## thedude50

how many did you want me to do joe


----------



## JoeLyddon

*Just kidding…* I haven't counted them in a long time… LOL

... after seeing a real* Expert* do it, hopefully, something will rub off! LOL

I have a nice #7 and some other smaller / medium sized ones…

One of these days, I will have them in a cabinet where they can be seen and used easier than in a Chest drawer… LOL

Don't worry about it… Just having fun… LOL


----------



## thedude50

no joe I am willing to spend the day doing your planes my friend will be with me we could easily kick out 6-8 of them in one day


----------



## ShipWreck

Good read. From what I have heard, WoodCraft's next line of planes is supposed to be featuring the Pinnacle blades. I might try one of these on my next restoration.

Thanks for sharing.

John


----------



## thedude50

yes their next line of planes are going to be the pinnacle line and will be a upgdad with the IBC cosman blades no release date as of yet cant wait to get a set of them though


----------



## Dwain

Dude.

Thanks for the review. I know these plane blades are great! My only concern is comparing these to a Lee Valley blade for almost half the cost, without the need to file my beloved Stanley type 11's. Are you converting your bedrocks to these permanently?


----------



## thedude50

Dwain, the mouth is opened permanently but you can I have checked just move the frog forward a bit and you can return to a vintage blade no problem. But after you have you will never use a vintage blade again. These are simply so much better that once you have used a set like this you will never turn back. I worked really hard to make sure i only filed enough for the blade to fit snugly wit the frog all the way back so it is the smallest modification possible. It only took a few minutes and you are only opening the mouth a couple of thousandths. I suggest you go buy a cheep no 4 on eBay and convert it once you have tried it if you think my assessment is wrong please tell me why. You can often find these on sale and the price is not that high compared to other Premium blades. I simply don't like Chinese steel so I use Canadian steel instead. Since there is no american companies making good steel in the us any more.I am very pleased with these and feel the modification was well worth the performance increase. My whole bedrock set will have these blades in them just as soon as they make the rest of the blades to fit the whole line i don't have a blade for my 5.5 my 608 or my 602 bedrocks. Sure i have some real collector planes i will never touch, but if your planes are users and not collectors like my users. My goal is to get the best performance I can from the tool and this blade improved performance by leaps and bounds. I hope this helps you decide to test one for your self. Let me know how it works for you.


----------



## Dwain

Dude,

Thanks again for your feedback. I don't question your findings whatsoever. I am sure you are correct, I just raised some concerns that stuck with me. I certainly don't know where the LV blades are made, but I'm pretty sure the Hock blades are made in Europe. I also agree that there is nothing close to the thickness of this blade. I have no argument about it's quality, it is surly top notch. I am just wondering about the value. I don't use my planes everyday, (I have a set from 3 to 8 of bailey type 11's, as well as several other planes), and I certainly don't use them for a living. I don't know if I can justify the cost for the use I get out of them…You are also correct, if I have the money, and I can catch them on sale (where? I have never seen them this cheap) I would definately take the plunge on a "tester" plane.

Thanks again for your review, it was fantastic.

Dwain


----------



## thedude50

for the record Lee valley blades are made currently at veritas in Canada, and they are good blades. They just aren't as good as this set. But if you want thinner cheaper blades IBc Makes thinner blades that work with your stock chip breaker as well. They are much less money and are very good quality but not a thick and not a better chip breaker like the Rob Cosman set.


----------



## JGM0658

Do you have an affiliation with Cosman? Seems you promote him a lot.


----------



## thedude50

I am not paid by him and these blades are from IBC. He designed them and Yes I do Promote him. He rents banner adds on our site and that is because we sought him out because we liked his teachings and his products. Have you watched his work Or are you on a mission to be a dick today?


----------



## felkadelic

thedude, I don't think JGM was out to attack you, so calling him a dick is uncalled for.

If you're posting a review but you have a stake (of any kind) in the item you're reviewing, you really should be upfront about it. People often assume reviews are impartial, but that's not the case with this review.


----------



## ShipWreck

Dude….you are right. I removed my thicker "Hock" blade in my #7 and put the original blade back in. I bumped the frog mayby 1/32 of a inch and it is the same as before. I dont see why people worry about it so much. I have read a ton of posts about people freaking about about grinding the mouth.

As far as Cosman goes, he is pushing a good line of of (affordable/durable/quality) tools with WoodRiver. I do not care for tool pimps that push useless products, but I think Cosman is "spot on" with the WoodRiver lineup. I like the LN and Veritas planes, but I would go straight for a WoodRiver for the price. I cannot wait to see the Pinnacle series just to see a very good hand plane…....... go to a great hand plane.


----------



## thedude50

felk a delic he has been dogging me all day so you don't know what your talking about. We have a history and I don't make a dime off these blades so your wrong on both accounts. I rent rob banner space for his online tool school. I hope this clears up this for you. I don't buy tools that I review because that skews s the review in favor of the product since you will justify any purchase you make. It is a proven fact instead I am either loaned tools like the tormek that I tested or I use the website budget to buy the tools like the jet or I am given the tool because shipping it baCK AND FORTH COSTS TOO MUCH. I ENDORSE TOOLS i LIKE i DON'T GET PAID SO please MOVE FORWARD IF YOU THINK i WAS BIASED IN THIS REVIEW YOUR WRONG. THIS WAS WHAT HE WAS AFTER HE LIKES VERITAS AND HAS AN AGENDA. i AM TIRED OF HIS CHILDISH ATTACKS TRYING TO ROB ME OF MY CREDIBILITY THAT I HAVE EARNED BY 16 YEARS OF IMPARTIAL TOOL REVIEWS. Don't buy into his childish games.


----------



## thedude50

Thank you Ship Wreck I am glad that worked well for you and it will for anyone who wants to put a ticker Iron on their plane just make sure when you set the fiile up you do it with the frog as far back as you can this will make sure you remove the least amount of the plane as nessary to make the iron fit.


----------



## ssnvet

*Since there is no american companies making good steel in the us any more.*

Having worked in the nuclear power industry once upon a time, and servicing high end machine shop customers in my current job, I've seen some of the best steel that money can buy anywhere on planet earth …made right here in the USA. So I respectfully disagree with your assesment.

I think a more accurate (and long winded) statement would be that the market price for certain grades of tool steel used in small specialty market segments (like hand woodworking tools) does not cover the cost of production in the US and still generate profits for the large corporate steel makers, so they are not interested in producing it.

Being able to produce the best and being able to make money by producing the best are two different critters.

None the less… thanks for posting a great review. I'll be watching for sale prices on the IBC blades.

Mind sharing where you've seen them?


----------



## TDog

Looks like Cosman has quite the teacher realm down.
I have learned something just watching clips of his DVDs .
And products seem good too


----------



## thedude50

THEY CAN BE HAD ON ROB COSMANS SITE FOR CANADIAN READERS AND CURRENTLY AT WOODCRAFT Like I said. I was offered a dealership at my request after i wrote the review. As I am hoping to have an online store in the near future. I do hope to be able to sell them around 70 dollars a a set just like the sale price on woodcraft one of the woodcraft stores sells them on eBay. Check for deals there too


----------



## lj61673

"*He rents banner adds on our site*"

Say no more. By definition your review is biased. 
As for your opinion, well if you think these blades "are the finest in the world" I have only one question, Why aren't they used on what are universaly recognized as the finest planes in the world?

Rob Cosman is a fine woodworker but make no mistake, he is a salesman first.

Any quality blade/chipbreaker set installed on an old inexpensive plane will improve the performance of that plane. No news there…


----------



## rob10

THought I should speak up, Lance contacted me several months ago about advertising on his site. We did. My only connection to the blade/breaker sets is the fact that I get a small (very small) royality from IBC on each set sold. I do sell them off my site mostly in Canada since IBC does not retail. From what I know, sometime last year Lance contacted IBC for samples to review. I met Lance for the first time at a seminar I was presenting a few months ago. There is no money exchanging hands that would have anything to do with a tool review. Since he offers a product and I pay for it and that product promotes my other business I suppose some may view that as a bias. Nothing I can say will change thier mind so no sense in trying. For those willing to trust first, I am telling you I had no prior knowledge of the content of the review. I read it for the first time a few days ago when IBC alerted me to it. Lance is relaying his findings which to no surprise are in line with Guru David Charlesworth ( www.davidcharlesworth.com ) as well as American Woodworker magazine, Woodcraft magazine and more to follow. I had the idea and gave a rough but workable prototype to IBC, IBC executed the product and I was blown away at the end result. Nice thing about all of this is you can try for yourself to see if it stands up to the "hype". If you are buying from Woodcraft they offer a 90 day return policy regardless of the condition, full money back. Enjoy!
Rob Cosman


----------



## lj61673

*"Since he offers a product and I pay for it and that product promotes my other business I suppose some may view that as a bias."*

Really no other way to view it.

This in no way diminishes the quality of the product as I've seen it demonstrated and it appears to be of high quality when measured against the flimsy irons and chipbreakers associated with inexpensive planes.

It does however, in MY opinion diminish the validity of the review.


----------



## rob10

Understood, which is the reason I included David Charlesworths comments. Exact quote;

The Pinnacle matched blade/breaker is the best prepared that I have seen. The chipbreaker is outstanding and a few strokes on each surface will perfect it. Blade flatness and finish are excellent so the total preparation time is minimal.

The set will improve the performance of a pre WW2 Stanley/bailey beyond recognition. With proper tuning and sole flattening results should be comparable to premium modern planes.

The benefit of this set is the reduced preparation time and the ability to fit a thick blade to a Stanley. This option has not been available before.

I have been tuning up old Stanley planes for over 30 years. We have even salvaged planes from before 1910. Tremendous satisfaction can be had from reviving and using an old heirloom.

David

This should put the issue to rest unless we are debating what constitutes "bias". That I am not interested in. 
Cheers
Rob


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I have a serious question. To change the order of D. Charlesworth's comments:

-The benefit of this set is the reduced preparation time and the ability to fit a thick blade to a Stanley. This option has not been available before.

-The set will improve the performance of a pre WW2 Stanley/bailey beyond recognition. With proper tuning and sole flattening results should be comparable to premium modern planes.

Is the bare bones conclusion "thicker blades = better" ? If I'm not experiencing chatter at all, simply by changing to a thicker iron (albiet one of incredible quality; won't dispute that) I'll see performance improve beyond recognition?


----------



## rob10

I wont speak for David so let me leave his quote intact and answer your questions from my own experience. The single biggest problem with old Stanley planes was the thin blades. I think that is the origin of why folks move the back iron so close to the edge. I am of the opinion such a process does nothing to the shaving or the surface of the board except help stabliize a very thin blade. A thicker blade can overcome a lot of other problems in relation to machining issues. My perscribed method of improving includes truing the mating surfaces in addition to adding a thick blade. 
If you really want to find out, spend the money and try it. Should you find out it is not worth the $$ in your opinion then send it back. I have had enough feedback from folks from here to England that I make this suggestion with all the confidence needed. Enjoy and if you want to contact David he will certainly entertain your query, very approachable. www.davidcharlesworth.com he answers his own email.
cheers
Rob


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Rob, thank you for the reply and insight!


----------



## thedude50

for the record this review was written before I met rob and we made our deal to advertise for him. I believe in promoting products that meet my expectations. And while you may think my original review was biased you would be wrong but i do believe in working with the best. the best tools the best teachers the best craftsmen. in my 16 years of reviewing tools this is the first time anyone has suggested that my position is biased. This is clearly not the case since I wrote this review before I met Rob. We held the review back a few months so that it would get heavier traffic when we released the deltagrams for release another fine quality product we are giving away for free. none the less this is why this was brought up was because this guy wanted to bring me down as a reviewer which simply wont happen i will not let my 16 years of hard work be sullied by a guy with a chip on his shoulder. LJ61673 I have not seen you post before so i have no beef with you believe what you want if you choose not to buy the ibc cosman blades that is your loss the many people who have written to me thanking me for getting them to try the blades is enough to make me go on and I will not stop reviewing tools on the count you think i should not make a living doing so. although i must question your logic I cant see a conflict where you do I must say I think Robs Classes are simply the best online classes available to any new to advanced woodworker. This is also a product I will review and I sont see a bias in reporting what i love about the school and what i dont like about the school it is my opinion and i dont sell my opinion to anyone. Believe me if you will dont if you dont.

as for your other statement it is a well known fact that every award winning veritas plane won that recognition while they were sporting IBC blades so abgain your wrong about your information. I suggest you keep your eyes open in the coming months when you will be seeing a new premium line of planes sporting 
IBC blades.


----------



## ssnvet

Come on guys… there is no such thing on planet earth as an unbiased person.

Lance is enthusiastic about woodworking, runs his own web site, does reviews and is following in the footsteps of several other accomplished woodworkers on the web (and they're great grand pappy Uncle Norm).... which in my mind, sounds like a lot of fun.

So if he wants to share with us the things he's learning and the cool new products he gets to play with (and maybe make a little money on a business venture) why jump all over the man and treat him like some kind of Nigerian internet spammer, schilling the latest ponzi scheme.

I just cleaned up my my old Stanley/Bailey 6C and after spending a couple hours on the blade, I'm not at all satisfied with it (I think someone ground it hot b4 I owned it and it's lost it's temper in places). I've been wondering if a thick blade would make much difference so I'm happy to read this review, as I'll never be able to justify the beans for a Lie-Neilson or Veritas.

Thanks to Rob for logging on the forum and sharing the add'l info.


----------



## thedude50

SSN Vet Thanks for your support I am pleased by your liking the review and that you found it helpful that is what matters most to me. Once you get the blade be sure to clean it first it has a film on it that is gummy till you clean it off i used my bit cleaner and it worked just fine. I was pleased that it kept the blade new in the package and that it came off so easily then i worked hard to get a perfect edge on the iron this is a important part and can be done quickly as rob shows in his video. I chose to use my Tormek. which i bought after i did the review on it I do spend a lot more on tools than i make with an endorsement. I do buy what i find to be the best.


----------



## Rxmpo

I took Dude's advice a while back and got these blades for a old Bailey #4 that I bought on eBay and the reflection off of this hard maple says it all. I would highly recommend these things. They are awesome.* (There is absolutely no finish on this board!)*

My 2 cents… thanks Dude & Rob!


----------



## thedude50

Thanks for your support Rxmpo I guess If I keep shouting it more people will listen about what is good and what is junk. I am dedicated to informing the woodworking world about what is good and what is not and no one can stop me from being honist about it no one.


----------



## lj61673

Well, I for one, will sleep better knowing that thedude50, the final arbitor of what is good and what is junk, will not rest until the entire woodworking world knows his "honist" opinion on all things woodworking. A true and noble cause for which each and every member of the "woodworking world" should be forever in his debt.

Just an idea…..I propose we revamp the entire Review section of this site. Designate thedude50 "Review Editor". All reviews will pass his watchful eye. Any dissenting, and therefore wrong, opinions could be corrected or simply discarded at his discretion so as not to pollute our beloved community. This would cut down on his need to shout and at the same time save the membership untold wasted dollars purchasing tools that do not have his endorsement. At the same time we could run ads for the products that he gives his official okey dokey, thereby generating additional revenue for the site. It's a win-win!

I'm really surpised that no one has thought of this sooner! (no need to thank me).


----------



## affyx

great review! checked these out at woodcraft, they are beefy! need to find a cheap #6 to test the filing on before taking a file to my good one


----------



## thedude50

Lj are you the same guy I blocked with 2 ids on here.Is it your mission to be a dick too. I don't see any contributions from you you wont even show your face. How can I trust anything you have to say? When you wont endorse things your self.. I don't really care what you think So please don't post on my threads if your just going to be a trouble maker. Do you even make projects or are they all just pictures you grabbed off the net. Have you ever tested a product just to test it. I don't think so so. I will ask you nice to stay away if your simply here to disparage my good advise.


----------



## thedude50

JC, I have a nice Bedrock 606, it will do the job let me know if your interested in it .


----------



## lj61673

Is that your style? use deragatory terms for anyone that doesn't agree with you? That's the second time you've resorted to name calling in this thread. I don't care if you ask me nicely or not, I'll post on any thread I choose and if I disagree with you, you will be sure to hear about it.

Oh, and thanks for all the "good advise" (I think the word you're looking for is "advice") No biggie, I get those two confused sometimes too.


----------



## DouginVa

This thread has turned in to a Craigslist Rants & Raves post…..pulllleeeez. If it works, it works, if not, then return it for your money.


----------



## Bertha

This has surpassed silly. Anyone who's ever used aftermarket blades in Stanleys know that there are two popular high quality makers. Paul Sellers has articulated his reasons for preferring thin blades and he's made his case in convincing fashion. Having considered his position, I still prefer the thicker blade/breaker combos which leaves me with a couple of choices, mainly Hock and Cosman. I own both and a know a lot of guys who own a lot of both. Eventually, they gravitate toward one of the other based upon simple personal preference. Some simply don't like the squared off appearance of the Hock; others don't like the medallion on the Cosman. They're both premium products and us plane geeks are really lucky to have them available to us. 
.
If I liked the Cosmans better and owned a website, I might approach Cosman to advertise. I happen to like Ken Shun knives, for example. If I owned a kitchen supply website, I'd probably approach Shun rather than Wustof for advertising. Does that make me biased against Wustof? Sure! Because I've already established that I prefer Shun. 
.
I don't believe that a preference is necessarily a bias.


----------



## wingate_52

I bought one of these 18 months or so ago. It cost a lot in the U.K. and no DVD. I have a range of Stanley/Record planes from the 60's, and a range of alternative blades. I use handtools and machine tools in my job as a High (Grammar) school teacher, as well as in my workshop at home. I had to do an hours work of fettling on the plane to fit the blade and get it working. It is all worth while. The best blade I have. It leaves a polished surface on the timber. Shears any wood. Really great, the best. But far too expensive. I have equipped most of my planes with Quangsheng blades and chipbreakers. They too cut beautifully. Alas, unlike the Rob Cosman, they need sharpening (occasionally) I can buy 3 X QS cobo's for the price of 1 RC combo. I am pleased with the RC combo. It takes planing to a new level.


----------



## JoeLyddon

*Hey Lance, the Link to your Review is now NO GOOD…*
... maybe you could check it out and give us a GOOD link so we can refresh our memories and so New people can see it??

Thank you!

*Happy New Year!*


----------



## thedude50

Hey Joe Happy New Year I corrected the link


----------



## JoeLyddon

Lance, would one of those IBC Chip Breaker/blade sets work OK for a* Stanley 605 ... 2in. blade*?
... without any special messin around…

Thank you for the Link fix….


----------



## thedude50

Joe you have to file out the mouth a bit I do that in under 10 minutes the blade improves performance a great deal.


----------



## JoeLyddon

Lance, Yes, I knew that…

...* will it work on a Stanley 605 OK?*

*What is the difference between a 605 and a 5 ??* I placed them side by side and could NOT see anything different!

I took a look at what I have… One *605*, Three *5's*, One Miller Falls *9C*, One *7* and other misc small stuff…

*What is the 9C good for?* It's shorter than the others… looks like the angle is the same tough…

I know the 7 is a Jointer… *What is the general function of the 5 and 9C?*

*Thank you.*


----------



## thedude50

the 605 is it a flat top or a round top


----------



## JoeLyddon

I just compared again….!

*The sides are different!!*

The *5's* have *Round* Top sides…

The *605* has* Flat* Top sides… (I think the 605 is one that you shipped to TPW… that I bid on & won)

Are those major differences?


----------



## thedude50

no joe those are all nice planes the reason i asked if the top was round of flat makes a huge difference in set up . on the flat top you can adjust the frog with out taking out the blade this make setting mouth gap a snap. this is why the flat tops are so well loved and they are the design that was copied by wood river and Lie Nielsen that is the best design of a hand plane to date unless you like the new stanley SW more and i do like the new plane a great deal I use my bedrocks all the time though including my LNs


----------



## JoeLyddon

Lance,

Can the *IBC Chip Breaker / Blade combo* be used *on the 605 Flat top?*


----------



## JoeLyddon

*According to Rob, YES, they will work for the Stanley 605...*


----------



## woodworksbyjohn

I have to disagree with the quality of these blades. I had a student yesterday for plane setup/instruction who had purchased a Pinnacle blade for his Stanley but couldn't get it to cut properly. Take a 4x magnifying glass and check out the scratch pattern on the blade-very prominent swirls. The back also required a lot of flattening. After working it over on my set of Norton stones (1000, 4000, micro on 8000) we were able to get satisfactory shavings but the claim that the blade is a premium blade and ready to go right out of the box is false!!


----------



## ausworkshop

I've been using mine for over a year now. I spent a lot of time trying to get out those scratches on the back and on the chip breaker. I must admit I tend to agree with Paul Sellers. The blade is too hard and thick. Takes too long to sharpen and I barely notice that it stays sharp any longer than the original blade. If I hadn't spent so much time and money on this blade I'd probably just throw it in my junk drawer and put the original back in to be honest.


----------



## JoeLyddon

*ausworkshop...*
*

I guess you would be willing to sell it "for Scrap"?

If so, I'd be happy to take it off your hands…

I wonder what the Shipping cost would be from you to USA SOCAL?? 

What would you take for the piece of Scrap?

Thank you very much…
*


----------



## OSU55

For 20% less money one can have the Lee Valley PM-V11 set, or 30% less for A2 or O1 sets. The LV blades are 0.100" and the Pinnacle blades are 0.140". I have an LV A2 set for a Stanley #7. Comparative testing to a standard Stanley blade/breaker set demonstrated:

o A2 holds an edge longer (big news!)
o With both freshly sharpened, there was no discernible difference in plane operation or the resulting surface
o The thicker blade/breaker set would cut w/o chatter, etc. with a duller edge (more load is required to bend the stiffer structure, which is what creates the chatter)

At the end of the day, the thicker blade/breaker set allowed more cutting time between honing. Certainly part of that is the A2 material of the LV. I have not done the same comparison for O1 material, but I believe the thicker set in O1 would go longer as well.

The real key is getting a truly sharp, smooth edge to begin with. After my testing, my choice was to buy many standard Stanley blade/breaker sets (2" for $4, 2-3/8" for $17) vs a few thick aftermarket sets. If you have trouble with standard thin blade/breaker sets, it's in the tuning and honing process (provided you haven't ruined the heat treatment). Is the extended time between honing worth the high cost of aftermarket blade/breaker sets? It was not for me, but that's up to each individual to choose.


----------



## ausworkshop

Yea. I agree. I'm just sticking with the standard blades from now on. Much quicker to get a good sharp edge then back to work. I never get a truly sharp edge with A2. I doubt anyone can really. Once you understand and use true sharpness on any tool you can straight away feel the stiff resistance of an A2 blade in comparison. My chisels are the same. Wasted my money on a LN chisel and never felt happy with it. I'd rather spend my time working wood with sharp steel than spending most of my time trying to get A2 to perform. I don't think you can ever get A2 to perform as good. Who cares if it lasts a bit longer. Its woodworking. Not metal working. A2 simply provides a less than ideal edge for a longer period before going blunt. Much better to just quickly get a razor sharp edge on a cheap blade then back to work.


----------

