# Great saw, but not for the money



## kdc68 (Mar 2, 2012)

*Cole*....very well written review. Perhaps a controversial review when SawStop enthusiasts read it all. Nevertheless, you spoke your mind. I don't own a Sawstop, so I can only speculate that you pay for the technology and not a Bies style fence, cast iron wings, or other common upgrades found elsewhere. They (Sawstop) have no competition in regards to the technology. Competition generally brings prices down. Unfortunately for you and others will pay the price for safety…which "on the flip side" having all ten fingers is priceless


----------



## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

Great review Cole, and I agree that the sawstop cs is way too much for what you get.
I'm buying the 1.75HP PCS with 36" fence and industrial mobile base this coming fall/winter.


----------



## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Well written review. Nice to read something on Sawstop that isn't about the blade brake. This is the 2nd time in 2 days I've read the SS contractor has issues which is disappointing as they seemed well designed at Woodcraft.


----------



## Ken90712 (Sep 2, 2009)

What a great review, I have been looking at the 3 hp one and agree that it might not be worth the money. I full understand there is no price tag in saftey and your fingers but the ret of the saw should be a great as the technology! Very fair review and somethng to think about. Well done


----------



## Alan72 (Oct 31, 2012)

I bought the pcs 1.75 back in Dec. I love it! I understand what your c/o, if you spend that kind of money, you would expect to get a quality fence. When I bought my saw I went with 36" t-square fence, I couldn't believe that if I bought the 30" fence I would've been stuck with that cheap fence. It's like putting lipstick on a pig, Why they put a cheap fence on a saw like that I just don't get it. When you get the chance I would upgrade it with the SS T fence. write the company and tell them your 16 and instead of buying your first car, you bought their saw, maybe they would feel sorry for you and send you the right fence.


----------



## camps764 (Dec 9, 2011)

Great Review Cole!

I think Alan is spot on. I would call again, ask the customer service folks. If they can't help you out on the fence I would ask politely to speak to a supervisor, and tell them your story - just like you wrote it here.

If they can't help ask for the next person up.

I think your story is genuinely a good story, and I have to believe that they could work something out with you.

Good luck!

P.S. I'm not a SawStop owner, but think this is a very well written, objective review of the tool. Nicely done!


----------



## jap (Oct 10, 2012)

good review, 
From what i've read, it seems the sawstop's contractor saw gets worse reviews compared to their other saws.


----------



## tsdahc (Dec 18, 2011)

I was looking at the contractor model and from the get go knew the basic fence on the contractor was a no go, which meant by the time I added up the cost of the " fence and cast iron tables and the wheel kit, I was at the same price as the PCS with the 30" premium fence and free wheels, so I went PCS. The 30 " fence on the PCS is different than the one on the CS model. No its not the professional t glide fence but I think its a real nice fence. Im space challenged right now and the extra 9 " the 36 took up was too much. I will go to the 52" when I have more room and money. I think its a shame the SS doesnt offer the 30" premium on their base CS, it really cant cost that much difference in the manufacture price, heck I would think having 2 base model fences would cost more in parts and support, but what do I know.


----------



## Cedarsmells (Mar 4, 2013)

You are mature beyond your years Cole. Well written, very fair assesment of the saw. If I could add my thoughts to your situation, this is what I would do, "HANDwrite" a letter to the Vice President of Sales with pretty much the same information that you submitted here and ask him/her if there is anything they could suggest to eliminate your issues. My bet is SS will do the right thing and send you a Tsquare fence. Persistence does pay off, but getting to the correct level within an organization makes it happen sooner.
I know of a situation with Porter Cable where a drill owner was given a "that's the best we can do" from a local service center and after a well written letter to the VP of sales…. A brand new Porter Cable 3/8" drill arrived in the mail! Because of that story I now own a Porter Cable drill press. Sales VP's understand the big picture and will do what is right - if they are aware of the situations.
Good Luck


----------



## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

Very fine review, Cole. I wish the HS kids I taught were as smart, focused, and well-written as you.


----------



## Kobra (Mar 13, 2013)

Excellent review Cole. My faith in the younger generation just went up a notch.

I would like to echo what others have said. SawStop is pricing themselves out of the "weekend hobbyist" market. I'm far more concerned about kickback than I am cutting myself. For the price of this saw ($1600ish) I purchased the Grr-ripper Deluxe Supreme System and the Grizzly G1023RLW.


----------



## MR_Cole (Jun 1, 2012)

Thanks guys for all of the supportive comments! I am going to try one more call tomorrow and if I can't get anything worked out, I am going to take Cedarsmells suggestion of writing them a handwritten letter.

Alan79- I may steal that line "tell them your 16 and instead of buying your first car, you bought their saw"

Haha thanks everyone!


----------



## 1953stancraft (Mar 25, 2013)

Cole, Great objective review. I am a long time contractor and woodworker(63). When I set up my new shop two years ago, I looked at them all. Almost bought a Griz until I saw a live demo of the SS at Woodcraft, then used the saw in a class there. My first impression was that it was a very high quality saw(esp compared to the Makita benchtop saw I used for close to 30 years). Technology aside, respect the blade! I have the 3hp cabinet saw and when that blade is spinning…I don't want to rely on the brake. Good luck in your woodworking life, and hound them for a better fence!


----------



## libraryman (Feb 23, 2008)

I think you might be forgetting that a contractor saw isn't primarily designed for the "weekend hobbyist". A contractor saw is primarily concerned with work produced at a job site by workers of all skill levels, intelligence and alertness. Being a good boss the contractor is concerned with the safety of his workers at the lowest cost to his business. He is also concerned with the quality his workers are able to produce using the job site equipment. The Saw Stop contractor saw is very portable using the folding mobile base and with the standard fence and steel wings is capable of fairly good work. It will also allow the contractor to avoid an injury and a lawsuit when a worker screws up. Sure it's not a great value for the weekend woodworker, but neither are Festool products which many professionals opt to use.


----------



## MarkSr (Oct 14, 2012)

Very well written review Cole. Keep up the hounding and you will get to the right person, I agree with Cedarsmells, that VP of Sales will definately help you out, they of all people know what a bad review on their product can do.

By the way, Libraryman you didn't say what your job at SawStop was. (LOL)


----------



## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

great review. I have the 1.75hp PCS with the 36" rails…it's a great, well made machine, but it sounds like the contractor saw is not the same quality for the $$$ it costs. Most contractor saws that I've seen have crap fences, but the difference is that they don't cost even close to what a SS costs. I agree with you that for the price of the SS it should come with better than a typical contractor saw fence.


----------



## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

Libraryman, I think you're confusing contractor saws with jobsite saws (bosch 4100, dewalt dw744, etc.).


----------



## gtbuzz (Sep 19, 2011)

This was a nice review. I own the 3HP PCS myself, and I'll have to say that many of the nits that you pointed out fall in line with the reasons I went with the PCS vs Contractor… didn't feel like there was enough of a difference in price to justify saving the money. It does sound like most of your problems are with the fence though. I've never used the regular SS fence, but I'm a big fan of the one that comes on the 36/52" models.

When I bought my saw from Rockler, there was a line item for just the saw itself, as well as a separate line item for the rails/fence. The saw was listed at $2549, which is less than the price of the 3HP with the 30" fence ($2729). I would have to figure if I bought that saw, there would have been a fence/rail add on as well. Was yours sold to you that way as well? Perhaps it might be worth giving the retailer a call to see if they'd be willing to let you return the stock fence and buy the 36" one.


----------



## Oldtool (May 27, 2012)

Very well written and thought out review, which brings to mind several comments and / or questions:
1. Basically, you bought (based on your comments) a cheep contractor saw with safety technology. Would you have paid the same price for another manufacturer's saw if it had this stopping device? Would you have had a better saw?
2. What would be the pricing of saws if SawStop had forced legislation requiring this technology? or more importantly, what will happen to SawStop's pricing if other manufacturers come up with this safety device?

Just thinking out loud after reading your review.
Thanks


----------



## Lenny (Sep 28, 2008)

To reiterate what others have said Cole, yours is a well-written , concise and fair review. Congratulations on that alone. As a person who also suffered an injury last summer, I empathize with you and hope your injury was not too severe. I too have since purchased a PCS. I think I will send a PM to you to further discuss your injury and the saws. Best wishes to you as you continue in this great hobby/passion.


----------



## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

I might be inclined to call BS, based on your replies to other threads…


----------



## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

Like this:

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/44590


----------



## MR_Cole (Jun 1, 2012)

I was talking about the one at my fathers house… He got the 1.75 hp cabinet saw right after my accident at the same time that I got mine. Maybe I should have said "I've cut 8/4 maple easily on my Dads" sorry for the miscommunication. I got my own because he doesn't live close enough to me. He started woodworking a little after I did so we could have fun together when I get to see him.


----------



## MR_Cole (Jun 1, 2012)

Just got off the phone with sawstop. They are willing to give me $150 of credit towards a new fence! that means that the aluminum t-glide fence will cost $30 and the beis clone will cost about $190. I will probably get the cheaper one although the bolt holes dont line up. I have the weekend to make a decision. I will probably go with the cheaper solution as I have seen pretty positive reviews. Any suggestions?


----------



## REL (May 22, 2008)

Boy, you write well Cole. After my freshman communication course in college, I still write at about half your level, and it has been along time since I have taken that course. I am also sorry to say, I started woodworking much later than you .

Buy the more expensive fence. You always get what you pay for. Keep hitting SawStop for a better deal for a youngster. ASk your parents for the extra money. I bet it will be safer too.

I own the 3HP industrial SawStop with the 52" table and mobile base. Cost about $4,800.00 about 5 years ago. Dam right, it was expensive, and overpriced! But boy is it worth it! Great quality. I even added the dust collection and new blade guard when they became available. I'm just a weekend warrior.

The nice thing about a contractor saw (one with the right fence), it is easy to move around. This may be a factor later as you get older and want to move. That is after you sell your first few articles or books. Don't be too quick to get rid of the safety factor SawStop affords

The biggest thing with SawStop is peace of mind. That's where the extra expense really is. You made the right decision. You need some fingers to do some more writing.

By the way, I hope your accident with you original saw was minor.


----------



## NormG (Mar 5, 2010)

Great review, sorry to hear about your equipment issues thus far. Glad to hear you had some success with the credit for the upgraded fence


----------



## Alan72 (Oct 31, 2012)

I totally agree with REL, spend the extra money get the professional fence, I know that's a lot of money for you but you won't have any regrets in a year or two. Run it by your dad, ask him what he would do and then ask him for the $190.00. That's what my wife does to me!


----------



## hiptech (Jan 10, 2011)

I first want to say (as other have) this is an amazing review! That said, I'm embarrassed to say you know far more about woodworking than I do (which may not say much for me)... but is a great achievement for someone like you.

All that aside I may have something to offer that might help. I listen to a number of tech podcasts and have heard numerous complaints from ppl who were treated badly by CSRs including by some companies you would not expect such as Apple, HP and Samsung.

One of the best pieces of advice I've heard is if you want to make a statement about your situation that gets quickly noticed by upper management is use "twitter." Somehow the executive staff of many corporations seem to monitor these "tweets" and ppl who voice their opinions and experiences (sometimes negative) receive immediate replies.

Obviously, I can't say with certainty that your plight will be immediately remedied but it is worth a try. I would also suggest you link to your review here as well so they see the audience you are reaching and potential damage your experience may have on their "image."

I would also recommend you send a letter fully documenting (problems, dates, contact names and replies) all your issues. Send this to the CEO who usually has a "special team" who intercept such correspondence. These individuals can intervene and offer more options than normal customer service reps. Let them know how much you admire the company and it's products but also how hard you tried to communicate and have your problems resolved but are still unhappy with the solutions offered.

Politely tell them how much how much the company and products mean to you and your safety but also how much it pains you to let ppl know of your less than satisfactory experience. You also might want them to know your age and how much you would like to be a repeat customer in the future.

Try to stay positive but persistent and usually the "squeaky wheel" will receive the appropriate attention. Companies worry a great deal about "public perception" and will usually go out of their way to "correct" negative perceptions. Numerous websites like Amazon and Newegg monitor customer reviews and when they see legitimate negative issues will try to reach out in a public way to correct them. There is no reason to believe the same can't be said of SawStop or other woodworking companies…

Good luck and let us know how things turn out…


----------



## rockinmichael (Nov 15, 2011)

Similarly, my parents wouldn't let me use any other table saw (I am 15- but was 14 when I got the saw). Although the saw seems like it is far worse than what you might get from any other saw for the same price, the saw not only has the sawstop safety feature, but obviously had every detail well thought out; it has the best manual I've ever seen on a table saw, and also has amazing customer service. Rather than looking at the fact that it is simply not a cabinet saw, look at the cut quality, and the quality of the working of the actual saw, and your opinion might not be so negative.


----------



## Lwin (Apr 19, 2013)

I have used the 5 hp Sawstop and this thing and it is as if they were made by different companies. The former is near perfection and this one is maybe a notch above a typical contractor saw, but priced beyond most decent cabinet saws. Kind of shameful. 2k-ish for a run of the mill contractor saw? My old Delta contractor had a BETTER fence! And library man, please, there is no comparison to anything Festool makes with this saw. Maybe the cabinet saws, but not this one. This is cutting corners everywhere.

If they truly can't make the saw for less, then they are either incompetent or the safety technology is truly out of reach. But I'm not buying that - they are just being greedy with this saw.


----------



## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

if you got 800 bucks for it, you could always upgrade to a better contractors saw ?

I laugh at a lot at tools and the people who own them so I am curious as to why you give four ****s and yet its laughable ?

It reads overall, that you factored out the fence to save a dime, and had you "upgraded" you might have given 5 stars

Curious minds want to know ?


----------



## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

It must be a bitch being a kid who was forced to take a "saw stop"

"laughable"

welcome to "LJ's"


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Cole I agree that this is a excellent review. Since I'm a SS fan I'm disappointed to read about the problems with their contractor model given their cost. I use a SS"s 5hp cabinet saw where I teach woodworking and it's a dream of a machine @ a price close to 5K it should be. Even though your not 100% satisfied with your saw I can certainly understand why your folks insisted on a safer saw after your injury. If you think about it if SS did not exist your parents would not have allowed you to have a table saw at all. I hope a fence upgrade will make your saw much more enjoyable.


----------



## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

teachers ?

beware of the crowd who butters your ass, they are often "boy scout leaders" who make as little sense of setting up a tent, as they do picking out senseless accolades of "praise"


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)




----------



## Sarit (Oct 21, 2009)

Its great to see someone your age not only take up woodworking, but also put in their hard earned money to buying equipment. I agree that the contractor SS is overpriced whereas the PCS is fairly competitively priced.

You'll want to make sure you grab a thin kerf ripping blade, when ripping 10/4 lumber. Make sure your riving knife is set correctly, especially w/ a thin kerf blade. Also keep that blade clean from pitch and sharpened and you shouldn't have problems with power.


----------



## ssnvet (Jan 10, 2012)

It must be a bitch being a kid who was forced to take a "saw stop"

funny, I didn't see any mention of Cole saying the new SS was "given" to him.

When I was his age, I was buying all of my own toys (but my fetish was motorcycles then) and if I had paid top dollar for a ho-hum saw, I'd be bummed to.

I think the 4 star review was generous. If you have to pay that kind of a premium, you should rightfully expect the best contractor saw on the market.


----------



## Alan72 (Oct 31, 2012)

Cole what happened? which fence did you get?


----------



## MR_Cole (Jun 1, 2012)

I gave it 3 stars! The 4 stars is the average of all the LJ reviews of this saw.

Alan- Sawstop offered me $150 towards a new fence (price of the basic fence) so I went for the 36" industrial fence and so far it has been a joy to use. Also, the vibration noise at startup was greatly reduced with the new fence, which means that something inside the old fence was rattling.


----------



## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

i would give a saw stop 5 stars










for twenty reasons


----------



## Jokker78 (Oct 2, 2013)

I cave a craftsman tablesaw that I put the saw stop fence on, the 36 inch one, I love the fence. it is a great fence


----------

