# table saw vs track/plunge saw



## fiddlebanshee (May 3, 2010)

I'm contemplating that I need something to cut larger pieces of wood that is a bit better than a handheld circular saw. I was at woodcraft yesterday and they have the festool plunge saw TS55 for sale at $450. So I was thinking whether this piece of equipment could replace a table saw. I have a dewalt circular saw and a shopmade masonite straightedge. I'm still having problems keeping the thing straight when I saw mainly, I think because it is rather heavy.

Can you do everything you can do on a tablesaw with a plungesaw? I'd think that with the portability of the plunge saw it'd be more convenient (you carry the saw, not the sheetgoods). But then perhaps the plunge saw is more limited in its use.

What say you?

I'm not terribly interested in a debate regarding the different brands, I know that dewalt, makita and festool all make this thing and that they are more or less comparable in quality and price. The festool is on sale now, making it actually cheaper than the other two brands, so that would be my deciding factor.


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## Rey (Dec 7, 2007)

Hi fiddlebanshee,

I haven't posted much here on LJ, but I use the Festool TS55 and MFT quite a bit. I wrote a retrospective article about the TS55 and MFT from Festool a few years ago. My current shop is built around the TS55 and MFT. I don't have a tablesaw and have not been limited in my work without one.

I would not argue against having a tablesaw though. They are GREAT tools! But the plunge saw systems are great as well.

If you are interested, here is a link my Festool article. It is hosted by Adobe.
https://acrobat.com/#d=tQsY7fBWT1mHNeg7F5gE4Q

Regards
Rey


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## JBoss (Jan 20, 2010)

Assuming you anouther way to make dados, grooves, and rabbets such as a router or plow plane, then it should work out fine. While I would like to get a plunge saw for breaking down full sheets, it would not replace the table saw in my shop simply because it is so easy to get make the cut on the Table saw versus the plunge saw (slide my fence over vs aligning and clamping everytime i need to make a cut)


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## fiddlebanshee (May 3, 2010)

Yes, I have a router, router table and a plunge base for the router so I am pretty well setup I think for dados, grooves, rabbets and the like.


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## Sailor (Jun 17, 2009)

I just recently purchased the Festool TS55 and I really like, I think everyone does which is why I bought one. I also got it for the $450 price and I think it was well worth the money.

As for "replaceing" a tablesaw completely I say no. There are so many things you can do easily on a table saw that can't be done as easily on a router table or with a plunge saw. I just recently built my first cut off sled for my table saw and it really makes cutting small to moderate size pieces so quick and easy. Like JBoss said you really need a way to cut rabbets and dados and a table saw is probably best suited for that job since you can usually cut them the correct size in one pass.

I disagree somewhat with the fact that JBoss makes it sound a bit difficult to use the plunge saw due to having to clamp it down. I haven't even tried using my TS55 with clamps. I have found that like everyone who has one says, you really don't need to clamp it down for most cuts.

If you do go with the plunge saw for ripping down plywood then I would suggest getting the longer track that is capable of cutting down the 8' length of the plywood. I didn't and I think I will end up buying one in the future. I do however think that it's nice to have the shorter one also since it's not as difficult to move around as the long one.


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## Sailor (Jun 17, 2009)

We both posted at the same time. Well if you are satisfued with your router then I say go for it!

The only bad thing about Festool products is that when you buy one and you see how great of a tool they make it will make you want to see how their other tools are compared to the rest. But then they are much higher priced and you will be wanting to spend some big bucks on some tools, but I am sure they would be worth it.


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## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

I have both a plunge saw (ts 55) and a table saw as well as a miter saw. Each one serves a purpose and there is a lot of overlap (i.e. there are lots of cuts I could make on at least 2 of the 3 different saws). However, if I could only have one saw it would be the plunge saw.

It's been noted elsewhere that the plunge saw does not do dados and that's true but you can make multiple passes with the regular saw blade to create a dado. Further, there are other options for making dados.

A cut that the plunge saw is weak at is cutting small pieces of wood. If I were doing work that required cutting a lot of small pieces (which I hate to do) I would elect the TS over a plunge saw. Otherwise, a plunge saw is the most versatile.


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## fiddlebanshee (May 3, 2010)

@Richgreer: "A cut that the plunge saw is weak at is cutting small pieces of wood. If I were doing work that required cutting a lot of small pieces (which I hate to do) I would elect the TS over a plunge saw. Otherwise, a plunge saw is the most versatile."

But that you could do safely on a miter saw, no? I also have a mitersaw. I actually thought it was not very safe to cut small pieces on a TS but since I don't own one, this is pure hearsay.

So far I see the advantages of a plunge saw over a table saw in order of importance to me:

1. safety (seems to me that a plunge saw is less accident prone)
2. accuracy 
3. portability and takes up less space in shop
4. versatility (less important as I have a router and a miter saw)

The woodcraft sale lasts till Monday, so I'll have to pretty much decide by then.


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## TimLawson (Apr 27, 2010)

I think that the track & plunge saw vs tablesaw is not a question of which is better but a question of what do you plan to do and how much space do you have in your shop. A good and and safe table saw setup requires space, an out feed table (for working with longer pieces or sheet goods) and dust collection. A table saw excels when you have to make lots of small pieces very consistently or ripping long narrow stock. A plunge saw with a track (go for the 8' track)) is a much safer way to cut sheet goods than a table saw.

When we teach homeshop cabinetmaking we use a plunge saw and track with the plywood supported by two sheets of pink insulating foam. We set up two low sawhorses supporting a sheet of shop ply; on that we lay the foam and then the sheet goods you're going to cut. The pink foam is sacrificial but can be used for a long time - if the blade plunges into it just doesn't matter.

Rereading the thread I think I'm amplifying Rich's answer.

Good luck

Tim


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## Rey (Dec 7, 2007)

You can indeed make grooves, dadoes, rebates, cove and lap cuts with the Festool TS55 saw. I do it all the time. I also cut small pieces with it safely and accurately.

There is much that can be done with the TS55 and table. There can be overlap with other tools, depending on what you have in your shop. Take for example, making a groove. It can be done with the Festool setup, but it can also be done with a router or a TS, if you have it. But, the Festool setup can do it.

Take making coves, you probably wouldn't think of the Festool plunge saw for this type of cut. But, sure enough, it can do it. Though, if you had a TS, you'd likely go with that to make the cove cut.

Rey


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

I love our table saw and have given track saws a thought or two in the past. I have a hard time believing I could get the same out of the track saw as I do the table saw. When I build a kitchen, I can break down 5 or 10 sheets of plywood in a jiffy with no issues with our set up.

But, I love new toys and who knows, maybe some day.


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## fiddlebanshee (May 3, 2010)

Skeezics: Leesburg is in the northern most part of VA. It's probably a 6 hour drive. Don't think so for a couple of tracks. The issue I have with the circ saw is the weight, it's not just having a track for it. I lifted the festool at Woodcraft and it was much lighter than my heavy duty dewalt circ saw.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I don't have a track saw and don't feel the need for one so If in doubt buy a table saw first it can do more than cut sheet goods and with a good outfeed table you may not ever need a track saw. To each there own if a track saw works for others I say enjoy.


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## KentS (May 27, 2009)

Here is my opinion, for what it's worth. I have done woodworking for about 45 years, so obviously I started in a era when there were no track saws. Since I am a Festool dealer, my first inclination is to push the track saw.
I use the TS55 and absolutely love it. My wife uses it some, and I'm much more comfortable with her using it rather than my table saw. Everyone has pointed out the versatiliy of plunge saws and I would agree.

*However* --Your question was basically--which one-Table saw or Plunge saw? If you told me I had to make a choice based on *my* woodworking, I would have to stick with a table saw. I realize you can get by with only a plunge saw, and depending on what you do that might work well. As much as I like using my TS55, I would not give up my table saws. If all I did was sheet goods my answer might be different. Most of my work is solid lumber so the table saw makes more since to me. Ripping multiple pieces is faster. Mitered boxes-again easier, especially smaller pieces (Use a sled) Dados, unless you do them with a router, are easier and more practical with a table saw.

In a perfect world, you could have both. We rarely have that luxury. Your are asking a very valid question. I hope all of the answers together will help you find what's right for *you.*


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## fiddlebanshee (May 3, 2010)

@Kent: "Most of my work is solid lumber so the table saw makes more since to me. "

Can you or someone else elaborate on this? Why does the TS make more sense when cutting solid lumber? Is it the depth of the cut? The narrowness of the stock? The horsepowers?


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## Sailor (Jun 17, 2009)

The track saw best probably for cutting up large sheet good accurately. If you are using alot of solid lumber it will most often be in sizes that are managable on a table saw.

It's just that a full sheet of plywood can be difficult to handle safely on a table saw. MDF is the worst it HEAVY!


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## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

I'm a plunge saw fan. I have been thinking about where a TS would be superior to a plunge saw. Recently I made a sudoku board and I needed a lot of pieces that were 1/8" x 3/8" x 7/8". I ripped strips of wood 1/8" x 3/8" on the table saw. Then I hand cut pieces to length with a miniature miter box and saw. While it would be possible to make these rip cuts with a plunge saw, it was much easier on the TS.

In general, when you are ripping narrow stock with a plunge saw you need to rig up a way to support the track. That is doable, but it easier to make the rip cut on a TS.

It's also easier to cut a dado or groove with a dado stack as opposed to multiple passes.

Other than working with small pieces, ripping narrow stock or cutting dados, I think I prefer the plunge saw in just about every other application I can think of.

One more important point. My TS is always ready to go at the flip of a switch. I don't have to get it out of a case and I don't have to get and position a track. For a "quicky cut" the TS is more convenient.


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## KentS (May 27, 2009)

To rip, lets say an 8 ft long piece to make a piece of trim or a cabinet stile on a table saw, you simply set the fence to the width you need and run it through the saw. I frequently am doing multiple pieces the same width so you just keep ripping board after board with the same setting. (Of course this is assuming you have started with a jointed surface, whether you bought the wood that way or did it yourself. If you have no way to do that, then the plot thickens!) You can get a straight edge easily with a plunge saw, but you are having to set the track up on you stock for multiple cuts thereafter, and suppose you need a piece longer than the rail on your saw. Again, the plunge saw works, but I have always been in production so I can't, or won't spend the kind of time to do that with a plunge saw. Using the Festool MFT table makes this easier, but you are very limited on the length of you stock.

The narrowness of the stock definitely plays a part in my mind. Maybe part of this is simply the way I learned is very hard to get away from. .But-"If it ain't broke, don't fix it". That said, I'm usually very open to new ideas and ways of doing things. I just don't change "just because". I typically incorporate the new ideas in conjuction with things I'm already doing. I really wish I could show you in person what I am trying to say. Having the two saws side by side would make it much easier to explain.

I think cross cutting is also easier with the table saw if you use a sled. I am not saying you can not do it with a plunge saw-simply that in my opinion, its more practical on a table saw (Although I use a radial arm saw or a sliding miter saw, but that question is for another day)

I could go on, but maybe I won't. If you have other questions I will be glad to elaborate, but don't want to bog you down either.


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## reggiek (Jun 12, 2009)

Both of them have their plus's and minus's as stated above. I have both and use both very frequently. The plunge is so much easier to set up and use…that if I can get what I need done on it…thats what I use. I have cut dado's and slots using my Ts55, you just have to make multiple passes….there is also an accessory to move the rails the length of the kerf (or just make a quick shop jig as I have). The plunge saw combined with the festool dust collectors is also virtually dust free. The TS, even using a 2.5hp DC (Jet Cannister) seems to have a bit of dust blow out…my shop filter picks it up….but you can't beat the Festool for DC. Right now the plunge saws and accessories are 10% off….and are a great deal (for Festool). This brand is awesome as for customer service and for the quality of the item (the plunge is infinitely safer also as it has a blade guard, splitter and a guide rail….the only TS with so much is the SawStop. Thats it for my .02 cents.


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## Eagle1 (Jan 4, 2010)

I agree with Jim. I don't own a plunge saw. I have used a hard board and masonite setup for sheet goods. I happen to have buiilt my bench that has a 8' clamping system built in. But I now use my new TS. And if you are going to work with sheet goods by yourself there a few jigs you can make or purchase, to help you with getting the sheet goods on the TS.


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## Catspaw (Dec 15, 2007)

I couldn't tell you exactly why…maybe quality of the blade or the rail and spin of the sawblade or what. But, the Festool seems to do a better job crosscutting sheet goods. It also seems to cut cleaner. A TS setup properly does a good job but, in the situations I was always in (shop and field….questionable employee maintainance of tools etc….) I was always able to get a better cut from the Festool.

The Festool will not compare to the ts for production runs. But it excels at specialty cuts. You can reduce sheetgoods alot cheaper (except for the cost of more waste) with a standard saw since that cut is ultimately irrelavant.

To me, it's a matter of affording to invest in both and falling into their use as an evolution of your habits. You will learn what works and what doesn't based on setup time and the advantages each has to offer. I don't think the purchase of the Festool (or another saw/rail combo) would ever be considered a bad investment. But, the Festool has always felt like a real quality tool. Never ceases to amaze me how the rail will stay in place (barring any major unexpected extraneous forces.)


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## DanLyke (Feb 8, 2007)

I don't have room for a table saw. Having said that, even if I had the room I don't think I'd bother with a table saw. And if I did, it'd definitely be a Saw Stop or a Euroslider, 'cause my Dad's got a few inadvertantly shorter fingers, so there's no way I'd get into one of those for $450. But most likely I'd get a longer rail and build some bigger fixed jigs. I can nearly always design around the table saw, and or figure another way to make the cut.

I need to take some better pictures, but my rip jig lets me do that, I can generally clamp something together for ripping thicker stock, and there are levels of kickback and, of course, exposed blade that I just don't need to worry about.

I think the thing that really sold me on the Festool saw, though, was a few years ago I was hanging out in my brother in law's shop. His son was building an entertainment center for hire. My brother in law has a full-sized SawStop, even without the safety features that's a kick-ass amazing piece of machinery. It was sitting unused while they cut sheet goods with a borrowed Festool saw. Shortly thereafter, both of them bought Festool gear.

So, yeah, you have to think about cuts differently. The smaller Festool saw (the one I've got) will only cut 2" thick stock, sometimes I have to build a jig go make a cut, but I don't lust after a tablesaw for my shop.


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## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

I have to thank Dan Lyke for his comment above. I had never thought about building a rip jig for my festool plunge saw. Now that I see his, I realize that it would be a relatively easy jig to make and it could be a valuable jig to own. I can even envision a tapered rip jig.

Thank you Dan.


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## fiddlebanshee (May 3, 2010)

Thank you all for your comments. I have given it a lot of thought and I think I will eventually get the festool and not a TS. My DH isn't too thrilled about a TS in the house, given my propensity to get my hands in the paths of knives when I am in the kitchen. I think if I ever would get a TS it would most definitely be a sawstop. Your comments have really helped to get it clear in my mind what it is what I am looking for in this, and I think I can certainly live without a TS, given that I have a very good mitersaw for small crosscuts.

So I've pretty much decided for the festool, but I think I'm going to wait a little bit to see if this new hobby of mine really will catch on. I can make do with the circ saw for the time being, which is not terribly precise but with some tweaking and sanding I get manageable results. After we move at the end of June I will just wait until the festool will go on sale again, and get that with a dust system. I just don't have room now in my old house to store all of this stuff temporarily. And, I want to see where we are financially after we move, so that I know how much (if any) money is left for this stuff. The wishlist is being updated:

1. a bandsaw
2. a festool track saw
3. a dust collector
4. a jointer
5. a planer


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## fiddlebanshee (May 3, 2010)

Dan,

Nice work on that jig. The only thing that I don't know is where the saw will actually cut, is it where the kerf is?

Maybe a picture with the saw mounted would help.

Thanks.


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## DanLyke (Feb 8, 2007)

fiddlebanshee: Yep. The part that moves (where I'm measuring behind the rail) was initially cut flush up against the rail, so that's where the kerf lies (because of those stops at the end that hold the rail in place), and that means I can measure the thickness of the cut from the back of that part that moves to the back of the rail.

I'll take the camera out and get some better pictures. And, yes, I think it's possible to take some masonite and build a base for a circular saw that'll do much of the same thing the Festool saw will do, and you can probably build some basic sheet good cabinets with that mechanism fairly well. Might have to use a little filler 'cause the edge won't be as clean, but…

Also, Festool's fixed pricing means that the dealers have to compete on service: Go talk to your dealer and make some cuts. Maybe take a small project where you know exactly what several cuts you need to make in and do it there. Yeah, it's dangerous 'cause you'll want to walk out with the tools, but the worst that happens is you end up with a set of sweet tools!


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## DanLyke (Feb 8, 2007)

And there are some additional pictures on my Festool Rip Jig page, hopefully they'll help make things clearer. I haven't sat down with the Festool parallel rip guides to understand them yet, but you should probably check those out too (although suddenly we're catapulting into SawStop price range territory…).


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## fiddlebanshee (May 3, 2010)

Yes, now I totally understand how it works. Very nifty! Thanks for posting the pictures.

I've talked to the woodcraft folks in Leesburg, but I'm trying to hold off until after our move. I know the sale will be over by then, but so be it, there may be other sales. I think I might get some more stuff then, and perhaps I shouldn't rush it. I have no place to put it anyway. I have to climb over my tabletop router table that is sitting on the floor behind my office chair in order to get to my computer. The space around me at the moment is totally taken over by mitersaw, relatively easy to move bench, circ saw and other parafernalia. There is simply not more room to put any other tool. Elsewhere in the room I have to jump over the router case and a bunch of left over wood. Then when I clear that jump I will bump into my 6 ft loom and my 6×4 ft sewing station. There is a tiny narrow pathway to the door. The only place I can do any woodworking is on the patio outside. So, my practical self tells me not to get any more stuff until we have moved in June.


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## Domer (Mar 8, 2009)

I have a table saw and just bought the TS55 with the 10% discount and also a MFT Table with the miter guage on closeout.

One of the things I have used the TS55 in conjunction with the MFT table for since I bought it is to cut wide panels that would have been difficult on my table saw.

It is also nice to cross cut long pieces again with the MFT table.

The TS55 is also good for cutting sheet goods.

I am using at my daughter's house where I replaced some flooring to install a heat/air vent near to wall. The plunge feature is nice and also safe.

It is expensive but it lets me do some things easier and safer.

Domer


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## DanLyke (Feb 8, 2007)

One thing on Domer's comment: I hear the new table fence is worlds ahead of the old MFT (which is the one I've got). If you get the old one, make sure you've got a really good speed square to do regular checks of alignment. Probably a good idea for the new one too.


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## DanLyke (Feb 8, 2007)

JMcG: At that price, I'd be… well… check to make sure the base plate is flat and not cracked anywhere (especially in where the hinge is), give a good look at the quality of the cut to see how the bearing run-out is, make sure the PlugIt socket in the handle hasn't arced and burned (an easy enough fix, but it means getting the part and opening up the saw)...


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

> Can you do everything you can do on a tablesaw with a plungesaw?
> 
> What say you?


I didn't read all the posts so this may be repetitive.

The answer is "no". Think about dados, rabbets, grooves, tenons, miter cuts, and resawing. They are cumbersome for crosscutting dimensional lumber.

A track saw excels at one thing: sheet goods, and really only if manipulating a sheet of ply on a TS is too hard for you.

You can also put straight edge on a bowed board, or even rip a board, but that isn't anything a TS can't do.

I don't own one and never will because I wouldn't spend $450 to rip plywood. A simple straight edge guide and a circ saw works fine. I use my TS to fine tune an edge and cut to final dims.

I suppose if you had a production shop the cost could be justified but for the typical hobbyist, its a personal choice.


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## Dabcan (Feb 1, 2011)

I'd say for what you want to use it for, a track saw is better for you. Table saws aren't really meant for cutting large sheet goods without extension tables, and even then it can be difficult to manoeuvre the larger sheets.

I mainly use my table saw for cross cuts (with a sled), so for me I still need one.


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## SeanIUOE150 (Apr 22, 2015)

I'm in the same arena. I've got a table saw but really don't have the room for a dedicated are since I park in the garage also, well sometimes I do. I just bought the TS55 and it's the cats ass at breaking down and handling sheet goods. For finer stuff I'll always use the table saw, but I'm more into doing plywood cabinets for my garage and other project.


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## CyberDyneSystems (May 29, 2012)

For cutting sheet goods, only a very large full size cabinet saw will ever be the equal of good hand held circular saw for speed and ease of use.

Do I prefer to use a tablesaw? Yes, but I am using an industrial sized saw with large support area, huge rip fence capacity, and excellent quality blades. I also usually have help in the shop t push a full sheet through. (though not required, it helps a lot)

I would always reach for the hand held circular saw if I was facing cutting a 4'X8' sheet on a "jobsite" table saw, ( or in fact ANY tablesaw that one can buy at Home Depot/ Lowes etc. ) And with no extra help needed!

Track saws make the task faster and more easily repeatable, but you don't need to buy a Festool to get that kind of functionality. I prefer an 8" hand held saw, so I can use a good mix of high quality blades, including 40-60 tooth panel cutting blades, plexi glass blades etc, for "table saw like" cut finish. It used to be that 8" was required as 7 1/4" were all rough cutting, but this is no longer true. Still 8" seems to me to give better results in sheet goods.

I use a shop made jig as opposed to track saw, but indeed, track saws are a dream to use. Perhaps your problems are due to the jig? Or the Saw? If your using a plastic and stamped sheetmetal 
"Skill" or other such toy from the box store, you will not get good smooth cuts or control. A fine new Makita or used Milwaukee would be a good upgrade, and again, if you can get a decent setup with 8" blades,. you will see much better results than with a lightweight cheesy circular saw with crappy 7" blade that was made to cut off wet pressure treated 2×4 at off angles.

In a modern saw, the Makita 5008 MGA would be my choice (sadly Milwaukee no longer makes their 8" other than one designed for metal cutting)

My personal favorite is a MUCH older 8" saw with added weight and smoother (much larger) bearings, like my Porter Cable 528


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