# Anyone use untinted base paint as a substitute for spar varnish?



## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

Like the question says - I have to sand and clear coat a wood door that faces southwest and has no overhang protection, so the sun, rain and snow beat it pretty badly. Customer is disappointed that the last guy's job didn't even last 2 years, and I believe he used a Cetol product. I just read that using an untinted base paint will outlast varnish because it has more UV inhibitors. Any one have any experience with this?


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## GrandpaLen (Mar 6, 2012)

I have not personally had any experience with this product for that application.
I can suggest that you go to Charles Neil's site lumberjocks.com/CharlesNeil or go to his home page on this site and drop him a note. There are probably many others here that could help you , but being new to this site I'm not certain.
I have watched a few of his video clips and he may have the answer you're looking for.

Good Luck.


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## Radu (Jan 25, 2010)

There was another discussion here a while ago about outdoor finishes. Someone did mention about using untinted base paint. He had to snatch it from the guys in the paint department at HD as they wouldn't sell like like that.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

I've found enough positive input on it to try it. There's a small family owned paint store that I can go to who will probably sell me a quart. I'll let you know if it works, at least how it looks and goes on.


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## Radu (Jan 25, 2010)

Here is another discussion: http://lumberjocks.com/topics/8120. See post #5 (if you haven't seen it yet).


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## fussy (Jan 18, 2010)

It works great. It looks murky when opened, but dries absolutely clear. It has more uv inhibitors than spar, which has very little. Spar is a long oil that is made to be flexible. It really has almost no value for uv inhibition. Untinted base, however, is made to survive outside so it is loaded. In any paint you choose, the more you pay, the more you get. This is the one area I have found where this is an absolute fact of life.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

I had read that link Radu. I went to the paint store and described what I wanted and the salesman told me in 35 years of working there he had never heard search a thing. I said 'can we put some base on a stick and dry it?' He was astonished that it turned out clear and sold me the quart telling me to come back a couple years down the road and tell him how it worked. I had done some pine screen frames for this same customer last June with Helmsman (I don't know why he wanted varnished pine -eye of the beholder) and they were starting to fail when I saw them today.


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## Radu (Jan 25, 2010)

Thanks for the update. Let us know how your project comes up and how it holds down the road.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

I'll say one thing, it looks incredible. Can't remember the brand but it's an oil base that was close to $20 a quart, an industrial paint that I once picked up in black to paint my truck frame. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to anyone.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Just be aware that ANY finish exposed as you stated will not be a long lived finish. Spar, clear spar, poly yada, yada, will need to be refreshed. EL SOL will prevail. Just don't get into a situation that will give ya a "don't know squat" problem. Even the best nautical finishes require constant upkeep.
Just my thoughts.
Bill


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

I know that. The problem with this door is that the old finishes darkened and the stain they kept from last time wouldn't blend in. I had to custom mix different stains with some black to get things to look passable. Mine was the first refresh of an antique door they had dipped and finished from bare wood. It will never look like that again. BUT - the cost was the same to try this, so try I did. If they get more than a year and a half out of it (like the old finish) they will be ahead.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

That has been my go to outdoor clear finish for the last 10 years or so…ever since I first read that Jim Kull article. I bought the Olympic #5 at Lowes, and as someone mentioned it was a challenge; Skippy Stockgirl told me that can't sell it untinted, so I snuck a can out and bought it. It will have to be renewed over time, but it will likely outlast anything except maybe some of the true marine spar varnishes.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

Just checked the can - Coronado Industrial oil base. Does anyone remember Carver Tripps Liquid Glass? That was milky looking like this and had the exact same glass like feel when you ran your hand over it.


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## terdferguson (May 22, 2013)

very interesting post


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## terdferguson (May 22, 2013)

would like to find out more


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## terdferguson (May 22, 2013)

getting to 5 posts


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## terdferguson (May 22, 2013)

so i can


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## terdferguson (May 22, 2013)

message fredhargis about the untinted base


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## JoeinGa (Nov 26, 2012)

OK then. It's been 429 days since this was posted. So how's the door holding up?


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

LOL

Great question


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## HerbC (Jul 28, 2010)

Yep, inquiring minds want to know…

Herb


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

I haven't been back, but will ask customer next time I see him.


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## redSLED (Mar 21, 2013)

Very interesting, watching this thread for more info/results.

Still though, I can't imagine any clear finish getting the outdoor sun, rain, humidity, temperature variation and snow beatdown to last more than 2-3 years without a needed refresh. I would love to be proven wrong!


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

http://www.hardwoodlumberandmore.com/Articles/ArticleViewPage/tabid/75/ArticleId/26/Paint-On-A-Clear-Finish.aspx


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

redsled, I'm sure nothing I can say is going to convince you of how good the stuff is, so maybe try it yourself? It may not be as good as some of the exotic marine finishes, but a hell of a lot cheaper, and still works well beyond my expectations.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

As an FYI, I was doing some work at the customers this week - the door looks just as bad as if I had used spar varnish. Was hoping it would look good for a couple of years, but this thing is in direct sunlight with no shelter from rain or snow. I personally would have painted the door, but customers want what they want.


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

I remember a story from many years ago told by a woodworking person living in Paris. He noted that the doors on some apartments that were in the sun constantly didn't have this problem. Turns out that they were steel skinned doors painted masterfully to look like wood. Maybe that's an option. You can buy lacquer for automotive use that won't yellow in your lifetime to seal it against the elements (though I personally like the yellowing of nitro lacquer). My dad painted the garnish molding in his '53 Chevy truck to look like wood. It takes some practice to make it look like wood grain, but they looked pretty realistic.

As far as I am concerned, getting beat on by the elements like that is going to take its toll on any finish. The painting and clear finish would have to be washed and waxed like an automobile gets treated. People don't think that their houses need that sort of upkeep, right?

On another note, I've bought untinted gloss white from LOWES for the baseboards, doors and casings in my house. Nobody balked at selling me that.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

@AtomJack - this is an antique arched door that the customer had custom installed. Switching it over to a steel door is never going to happen. He could have a storm door custom built to put in front of it but he doesn't want that - at least the rain and snow would stay off of it.

What is untinted white? Isn't white the pigment?


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

I tried this finish today on oak and maple. (acrylic) I brushed in on and sanded after it dried in just a few minutes. I applied three coats and it gave me the semi gloss clear finish I was looking for. Thank you for the idea.


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