# Really old vs. less old Craftsman 113 model table saws.



## Zor (Dec 23, 2012)

I'm starting in the world of woodworking and it's time for a table saw. I've decided to go with a Craftsman 113 model saw and put a used Biesemeyer (sp?) fence on it. The two options I'm looking at are a saw from the 1960's, basically the beginning of the Emerson saws for Craftsman or one of the much later "3hp" Emersons from the late 80's/early 90's. Both are 10' saws with the motor that hangs out the back (contractor saws?) and both have cast iron tops with webbed wings. Besides the age the differences are that the older saw is a one owner saw and the gentleman says it's seen relatively little use over the years. Just an at home hobby guy who built a handful of balsa wood model airplanes and some home crafts over the last 50 years. The saw is mounted to a homemade cabinet. The other is from a guy whose wood shop went out of business and he's liquidating his tools. He's not the original owner and the saw is non running but complete. He said it needs a new cord and to have a base made/bought for it.

The late model saw is this model saw (however not this exact saw, no base, table extension or fence)









The early model (this is the picture from his ad, he didn't post a picture of the front of it)









My question is are there any major changes in the emerson saws as the years passed by? Besides cosmetics (I'm a sucker for vintage iron) are there any benefits or flaws to either of those saws? Also, will it be easier to install a Biesemeyer fence to either one of them?

Thanks in advance,
Zor


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## iamwelty (Nov 14, 2009)

What pricing are we looking at?


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## Zor (Dec 23, 2012)

$80 for the older saw and $100 for the newer saw.


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## Tedstor (Mar 12, 2011)

I used to have an older 8" King-Seely model, but currently own a 113.298762, Emerson, "3hp". 
The KS model had a smaller table, weaker motor, and a 1/2" arbor. It wasn't a bad saw. Just a bit out-dated. 
The 113 does not suffer from these setbacks and can better accommodate modern fences, blades, and accessories.


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## Zor (Dec 23, 2012)

Well, I went with the older saw. I went to look at it and the fella fired it up for me (switch needs to be replaced with something safer and moved off the motor to the front of the saw) and cut a 2×4 just to show me that it ran. He was moving and couldn't take any tools with him, so for the price of the saw he offered to throw in a Dunlap (same as craftsman just a different label) scroll saw that his dad bought him when he was 16 (I'd guess the guy to be in his 80's), a cabinet to use as a stand for it, and some other small stuff. I took him up on it. I grabbed a used Biesemeyer fence and a #8 size Fulton plane for another $125 off craigslist. I figure I'm in for somewhere around $150 for the saw and fence. The cabinet under the contractor saw is pretty cool. It's homemade out of wood ammo crates from the Navy and has a sliding trap door for dust removal. Don't know if I'll use it, but it's neat.

How will I know if it's worth putting a machined pulley and link belt on it? I don't have any table saw experience so I don't know what the threshold for a vibrating saw would be. It doesn't appear to vibrate terribly to the untrained eye/hand. Also, do you guys all recommend a Pals alignment kit?

Thanks,
Zor


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

yes to the link belt and machined pulleys. i have 2 emerson built saaws like yours. one with a link belt and one with OEM ribbed belt. the link belt and pulleys saw runs smoother. no to the PALS as i've seen situations where it interferes with beveling operations. aligning the blade to miter slot isn't all that hard on those saws.

just curious, "*I figure I'm in for somewhere around $150 for the saw and fence*." $80 for saw and $125 for fence = $205, or am i missing something?

i also have one of those older c-man saws with the same motor and segmented fence (the notched front and rear rails are individually attached to the top and the wings) and the motor seems to be a really torquey unit with plenty of power.


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## EEngineer (Jul 4, 2008)

I have one of the older c-man 113 saws. I like it a lot. I have been watching forums about these saws for a few years now and:

1. One of the most serious things about the newer saws of this model is the cheapening of the cast trunnions. Newer trunnions seem to be smaller and/or cheaper cast metal leading to more easily broken trunnions.
2. another problem is the cheapening of the "box" for the saw. As time went on, they used a thinner gauge sheet metal for the box and the angle adjustment mechanism mounts directly to the side of this box. I have read about people who saw the side of the box flex as they cranked in angle on their saw. Some fixed it by bolting a thicker piece of sheet metal to the inside of the saw to reinforce it.

Now, the disclaimer… This is just what I have read. I haven't experienced either of these issues myself. My saw is the 113.29901 (late 60's) and I haven't had anything to complain about.

I agree with the PALs comment - I don't have them and didn't have any problems lining my saw up.

I disagree with the linkbelt comments. I put a better quality normal V-belt on my saw and have no vibration issues!


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## Tedstor (Mar 12, 2011)

I've used link belts in the past on other machines based on recommendations. I don't personally think they are any better than a $5 v-belt, from a local auto parts store. I have a rubber v- belt on my craftsman TS and it runs perfectly smooth.


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## Craftsman70 (Jul 31, 2012)

I'd start with the link belt, but hold off on machined pulleys. For one, the pulleys it came with may be pretty good, and second, there is so much mass to that saw I doubt any vibration issues will result from the pulleys. If you have any issues, it might be that you'll need to replace some bearings.


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## Zor (Dec 23, 2012)

Toolie,

It was $80 for the table saw and scroll saw, with cabinet and some other tools, and $125 for the fence and a #8 plane. I figure between the plane, scroll saw, cabinet and other tools there's at least $55 there, so about $150 for the table saw and fence, give or take.

Thanks for the advice on belts and pals. Like I said, the machine doesn't appear to have vibration issues to me, so I'm just going to chuck a diablo blade in there and give it a rip.

Zor


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

Why try to fix something that isn't broke. If you must do something, machined pulleys are always a good investment. The V-belt is fine. I like the better quality belts but I am not a huge fan of the link belt. I am a huge fan of the machined pulleys. Cast pulleys are junk for the most part.


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

here's my 70s vintage c-man demonstrating a bevel rip and a nickel test demonstrating a lack of vibration:






that saw has machined pulleys and a link belt.


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