# my sapele nightmare



## cathyb (Jul 8, 2009)

As some of you know, I was commissioned to make a sapele rocking chair last month. The chair turn out okay. Okay to me a real bummer, since so many other woods could have been better, but the customer is always right. Darn. So just when I was recovering from my sapele nightmare, I am working on a cabinet the fits under a bow window. It is six feet long, twenty inches deep and three feet high. It has an open display area between the cabinet on the bottom and the top. It is a pretty complicated piece with all the angles. The worse part is he wanted SAPELE. Oh my God! To add to the nightmare, he wanted the sapele stained with a red mahogany stain to match the other stained cabinets in his home. I get that.

I spent quite a bit of time trying to find some boards with nice grain only to have that grain buried under the stain. Frankly, that makes me sick! Yesterday, I cut the top that I had glued together. I had a little extra wood from that step, so I added the stain. The curly (yes it can have some curl) figure disappeared. I shouldn't be surprised by this but now I'm in my rebel mode. I initially tried to convince him to go with Brazilian cherry. There is a wood with some character. Admittedly cherry is heavy and I'll be taking some Alleve once this is all done, but I can't have a bland looking piece of sapele on the top of my cabinet. To me, that would be akin to topping a wedding cake with a straw!
Anyway, today I'm going to cut up some B. cherry. Make the top all over again. Once it is cut, I'll add some stain, then the finish. I think other than my disappointment with the awful outcome with staining is the fact that sapele is not the greatest wood to finish. I made the shelves inside the cabinet from the B. cherry. After two coats of finish(they will have three), it feels great. Sapele just takes too much finish to get a nice result. In addition to that problem, even though it is heavy it tends to get banged up easily. B. cherry is less likely to get marred which is why it has to be the new top.

Has anyone else had trouble with sapele? There is a lot of it out there. It is inexpensive, but I can't take on another commission with that wood. Seriously….....


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

I used sapele on a small piece, I used Danish Oil on it, first coat with plain and then coat of red mahogany follwed by a coat or two of plain. I thought it came out with a great color and it did not hide the grain.


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## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

I've turned some rolling pins from it and finished them with mineral oil.

It's pretty but as you pointed, gets dinged easily. Not really what I'd consider for a "working" kitchen.


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

If you have to change the color a lot, it's best to use dyes for as much of this work as possible. Pigmented stains will mask the grain but the dyes won't.

Usually I apply a dye as a base color then apply a pigmented stain to help protect against fading. Pigments tend to be more resistant to UV than dyes. You just don't want to apply them too heavily otherwise they look like paint.

Never used sapele yet. African mahogany has been the substitute wood of choice lately though I think sapele seems to look a little more like honduran mahogany to me. The african stuff tends to have reversing grain patterns.


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## cathyb (Jul 8, 2009)

Charles do you mean red mahogany stain? As a rule, I never stain anything so I was already handicapped with this project. Maybe I could try that technique for my raised panel doors…....

Lew, I have to take that tendency to get nicked easily into play. This cabinet is only three feet tall. I will have things place on it and probably dropped on it. Likely, it will get scratched as well. Once you go through the stain, it will not look pretty. It is a serious concern.

Thanks guys. I really appreciate your comments and suggestions.


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## michelletwo (Feb 22, 2010)

have any mahogany?


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## cathyb (Jul 8, 2009)

JAAune, you have a good point. This is going under a bow window. It will have issues with sunlight.
I have some aniline dyes and some offcuts left. Maybe I should give it try before starting over.
Then again, I need a more resilient surface for a cabinet top. Maybe aniline dye on B. cherry.

michelletwo, we have some African mahogany. I used it for the tansu in my projects. Currently the A. mahogany supply has a lot of unstable wood with too much tension. I chose sapele because it tends to be more stable.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

I meant red mahogany Watco Danish Oil. I don't use stain when I can help it, but on Mahogany, African Mahogany, and Sapele, I find one coat of Red Mahogany Watco Danish sandwiched on both ends by the plain Watco Danish comes our really well. I've attached two pics. The lighting in the photos makes it look like two different colors, but they're identical.


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## cathyb (Jul 8, 2009)

Nice Charles. I'll have to run down to Woodcraft and pick up a can. Maybe I should use that on the B. cherry instead of the sapele. The cherry already has a good red tone, so if it were scratched, it would not have as much contrast with the applied color.
Clearly something has to change before I settle on a top. As much as it pains me to do so, I think the top has to be cherry.
Do you all agree with that or not?


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Jatoba (Brazilian Cherry) is one of my favorites. Yes, it is heavy but almost impossible to dent and darkens pretty quickly to a beautiful hue. It is also the easiest wood to finish that I have ever worked with. I have a couple of pieces with nothing but BLO and Renissance wax on them and they still look new after 4 years of handling by small children!


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## cathyb (Jul 8, 2009)

Thanks gfadvm. I have worked with Brazilian cherry. I love that wood. It is heavy, but finishes like a dream. I guess I'll try adding a little aniline dye. It's too bad that any of this is necessary. With a little patience the cherry would have given him that beautiful rich tone that he desired. Honestly, I was extremely disappointed when he chose the stained sapele over the cherry. When his entire great room is filled with stained wood that someone thought was a great idea, how can I question his decision.
Off to work….... I have some cherry to mill…......


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## cathyb (Jul 8, 2009)

I thought I'd call Woodcraft about the mahogany oil. They don't have any. Then I thought about how much I adore shellac in these troubled times. They suggested that I add red trans tint to my shellac. That idea certainly could be a winner. I have some garnet shellac flakes that I will mix up with alcohol. It will take a few days to get my mixture ready. In the meantime, I'll go with the cherry. What I especially like about the shellac as a sealer and color enhancer is that it is less like to saturate the grain and it is a fabulous sealer for my top coat.

Thank you all for your suggestions and support.

Aloha…....


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

Just be sure to do a test board with that shellac and dye mixture. I said earlier that dyes don't hide the grain but I should qualify this slightly. If the dye is added to a finish then used as a toner, it will start to obscure the grain if it is applied too heavily.

I use the above technique all the time to make slight adjustments to the color of projects and never have any issues anymore. In the past though, I have accidentally obtained a painted look.

Also, if you color the shellac too strongly, even tiny runs or drips will look terrible since they'll be much darker than everything else.

My reason for using shellac for the toner base is because it dries fast, doesn't cause adhesion issues with other finishes and uses a different solvent than my topcoat of lacquer. Because of this, I tend to seal the wood with lacquer then use shellac toner after the lacquer dries overnight. This allows me to wipe off the shellac with alcohol if I make a mistake or decide the color is wrong. Lacquer is then used to seal the toner.


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## cathyb (Jul 8, 2009)

Thanks JAAune. I just milled the cherry. I do have so shorter pieces that I will test before I apply any finish.
I know how terrible that trans tint can be. After my shellac sets up overnight, I will do some testing tomorrow.
Later today I have to glue up my new top, then cut then sand. I have a little time to play around with that color issue.
Thanks so much..


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## PASs (Dec 1, 2009)

Would love some pics of your progress in the project.
I think I've made some stuff out of sapele, but I'm not always sure what I'm using.
This was an early turning…sapele?


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## lateralus819 (Mar 24, 2013)

Hmm I LOVE sapele. It smells AWESOME, very easy to work, pretty hard. Not to mention gorgeous.

Heres my kitchen table.










8/4 sapele. little pomelle here and there.


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## Oldwest (Sep 22, 2010)

I work a lot with Sapele and get mine quarter sawn, it comes out
like Lateralus819 above.

I always use Seal Coat before any finishing and then normally
a Dye coat if I want to change the color, which I try not to.

Do not use a pigmented stain or you'll lose all the properties 
that make this wood so good.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

we win some

others we simply learn


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## cathyb (Jul 8, 2009)

Oldwest you sure are right about the stain. I felt that on the sides of this cabinet, I was willing to put up with the dark obliterated effect- sort of. This piece is like a corner cabinet. Those sides will never see the light of day. When I got to the front face, then I had stop that craziness and ask you guys for some advice. Would you use the lacquer to seal, followed by the shellac with trans tint? Then a top coat. Or is SEal Coat a lacquer based seal? I guess I'm looking for a consensus.
Honestly, it pains me to stain this wood. The curly pieces that I am using for the doors absolutely MUST keep their curl.


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

If you really want to keep the full appearance of the wood's figure, forget about putting the Transtint into the shellac and instead, mix it in water and apply it as a stain directly to the bare wood. Flood on, and wipe off the excess before any dry spots appear. That will color the wood and also help pop the figure some. Once the dye is completely dry you can follow with a penetrating oil stain (or even plain oil) to pop the figure some more.

If you do the above correctly you'll actually make the figure more striking than it would have been without the stain. Again, test the procedure on scrap first. It's very easy once you know how the products work and testing is the only way to get that experience without risking your actual workpiece. Even if you understand what I'm saying perfectly it's hard to apply the advice without first seeing the procedure in person.

Also, when mixing Transtint dyes, err on the side of too light a mixture. The idea is to literally flood it on the wood and allow it to darken the wood as much as that particular mixture is capable of doing. The last thing you want to attempt is to carefully wipe on a precise layer of color with a mixture that's too dark. It can be done but it's very easy to make a mistake when doing so. More than likely you'll end up getting some dark patches.


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## cathyb (Jul 8, 2009)

Got it JAAune. I will give it a shot first thing tomorrow morning. Sometimes I take on projects that are out of my comfort zone and those are the best teaching experiences. Thank you for educating me in the useful area of coloring wood. I'll be posting this project later this week. Have a great evening…......


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## cathyb (Jul 8, 2009)

Good morning JAAune,
Back from the lab. I tried diluted transtint, trans tint with shellac and trans tint over lacquer. I found the first diluted trans tint was too dilute, so I made a more concentrated mix. It did turn a dark red, but almost too red.
Then I added a drop of amber brown trans tint to that mix to get less red. I found when it started to dry, it looked sort of pink. I added some oil over the pink and got a pretty nice color.
The most significant observation, as you had pointed out, is that the grain really popped. Ahhhhhh, that was sweet.

Most concern now is adding water to wood, something that I never do. I don't want it to twist or warp. Any issues there that should give me pause?

Thanks so much. You are the greatest


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

You're welcome. Glad to help.

There are some concerns regarding water. First, if you have a defective veneer job, it will cause bubbling. However, I just go right ahead and use the water-based stain anyway. If a bubble shows it's because I did a bad glue up and not because of the water. At least this way I have a chance to fix the bubble before the client sees it.

Remember that you're wiping the excess off within minutes of application. The water doesn't have any more time to get into the wood than it does when using water-based topcoats.

Do try to use filtered water with minimal iron content. The iron can react with some woods and cause little gray spots.

If your joinery and veneer work is good, the worst issue you'll run across is grain-raising. This can be minimized by pre-raising the grain before staining, sanding to higher grits or by using razor sharp planes to surface your work before finishing.

If water still isn't to your liking you can use a water and alcohol mixture or just straight alcohol. I prefer water for its ease of use and lack of fumes but alcohol works fine if you can get through the application fast enough. There's just more risk of uneven coloring.

You've probably discovered this by now but the color of the wood after the Transtint dries is really deceiving. It often looks pale and ugly. You'll need to apply your oil and topcoat before you can truly evaluate the look.


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