# Oak Flooring questions- My first project



## Sac (Jun 14, 2008)

Hello fellow lumberjocks,
My wife has decided that since I can get oak @ $1 a bf from the fellow I got my wood from last week that she wants oak flooring in the living room and hall. I am looking at 450 sq ft with 50 additional allowance.

Info on the Oak I would be buying. 
1×4x6-8 ft. I would plane either 1/16 or 1/8. The oak is 8 years old on the racks dried.

She asked me some questions I of course couldn't answer so I thought I would ask all of you, the pro's.

Q's
1. How much will this Oak expand and shrink with the weather changes throught the seasons. What she is seeking out here is what kind of gap size between boards might happen over time.

2. Should I bevel the sides at an angle? I have already planed on beveling the ends at a 5-10 deg angle.

3. Should I use only glue? Or use glue and finishing nails?

Your help is greatly appreciated in all my questions but since she has handed me my first project I would like to get it right since it will be something that we plan on having the rest of our lives.

Thanks


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## brunob (Dec 26, 2006)

No glue. Just nailed. They have a machine just for tjis. You can rent them. Machined tongue and groove - very time consuming. Finished all sides is best- that prevents much of the movement but assuming the room is kept fairly constent, one side finish would be OK. I have a floor down for 20 years that way, no problem.


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## Sac (Jun 14, 2008)

Could I dado the tongue and groove or just the tongue and route the groove? Or would it be to inconsistant or more time consuming than a rented tool?


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## Newton (Jun 29, 2008)

Jerry,

If possible "V" groove the flooring. This allows you ro prefinish the flooring so you won't have to sand it. If the material does shrink it will not be noticeable. There is a trick to machining T & G flooring that helps keep the face joints tight. When you machine the groove cut back the portion below the tongue 1/16". This guarantees the face side will bump-up tight. I would not use any adhesine to attach the flooring just finish nails through the tongue. Make sure to install some sort of felt/rosin paper or the foam that the laminate flooring people use between the flooring and the subfloor to keep the floor from squeeking, another reason you would not glue down the floor unless of course you are going over concrete. Don't forget to allow plenty of time for the flooring to acclimate before installation.


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## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

Jerry,

This may be counter productive to your post but planing a 1" board to 1/16" or 1/8" seems like a terrible waste of good lumber, to me. You could get twice the flooring by re-sawing to 1/2" then planing!

My 2 cents.

Lew


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## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

Jerry,

If you are going to be using this as flooring then you should not be going less than 3/4" for the oak. The purpose of the tongue and groove system is to help conceal the inevitable gaps that will come from normal wood movement. Brunob is talking about a floor nailer as a rented tool. You can rent these either as a manual or as a pneumatic nailer. If you want to buy one Ebay is a good source for these. Wood flooring has a tongue on the left side and the front and has mating grooves on the other two sides of each board. You must nail it down rather than gluing. If you glue and nail the wood movement can cause the boards to split. After it is installed you will need to sand it through at least 120 grit then apply at least two finish coats, usually polyurethane.


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## pommy (Apr 17, 2008)

hi sac 
i'd use nails no glue but as for shrinkage i'd leave it in my house for two weeks to aclimatise to the house then there should be little or no shrinkage and please do not use a nail gun there is a manual tool you can use were you strike the tool and it punches the nail through the tongue 
if its what we call new t&g or click t&g then you dont need anything

hope this helps 
andy aka pommy


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## brunob (Dec 26, 2006)

You could cut the tongue and groove any way you have handy. The tool I was referring to was mentioned by Pommy. It's for bnailing the floor down. Perfectly placed and countersunk nails every time.. Make sure the tongue is a little less than the depth of the groove.


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## tenontim (Feb 24, 2008)

I understand you to mean that you're taking 1/16- 1/8" off of the 1" boards. That will give you nice thick boards to work with. I agree with the nailing that everyone has mentioned. The best time to put this floor down is in the dead of winter. Let the wood acclimate for several days in the heat of the house and it will shrink about as much as it's going to. Then in the summer when the humidity comes back, it will just tighten everything up.


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## Sac (Jun 14, 2008)

Good Advice from all of you. I thank you. I've a pneumatic framing, finish and brad nailer. But I should go rent a bnailer. Ok That shouldn't be a problem. The thought about felt/rosin paper or the foam for laminate flooring I had no idea about. We have foam for laminate flooring left over from the basement. Would the felt roofing paper be ok? We may just purchase more of the foam. It sounds like it may actually be better than the felt/rosin. I reallt don't know but just handling the 2 types is a major difference. Yea the flooring will be 4/4 and I'll plane 1/16 or 1/8 off for the finished side.

Should I have to plane both sides?

Thanks for your responses. I've decided to go a different route on the purchase. I'll be purchasing the wood from the sawmill down the road. It isn't alot probably for most of you but for me it seems to be alot. So yes I will rent me a BNailer in 3-4 months. He's going to cut it this week and I'll bring it to the house and let it sit for 90-120 days before I install it. He's also going to cut the spacers as well. I'll just let it sit and dry here.

Could I cut the tongue and grove now or wait till I get ready to install it?

Thanks for your responses.

Thanks again for your thoughts.


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## oldworld124 (Mar 2, 2008)

Jerry, I have installed many types of flooring. Just installed some oak flooring for a job on sunday. I suggest you go to a store that sells wood flooring and get a sample of any type of flooring with tongue and groove. You will notice that the shape of the tongue is not a regular straight edge tongue. It is slightly more relieved on the bottom edge. This ensures that the upper sections will mate up with each other tightly. The bottom of the boards have dados which stablize the wood and allow air to move under them.
You will be much better off trying to have a local mill run the oak you want into flooring with their cutters. You also will not have any problems with the flooring if it is milled to 3/4", which is an industry standard. The cost for the milling will more than pay for itself by getting a floor with true tongue & groove with bottom dados.

Good Luck


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## Grumpy (Nov 9, 2007)

Jerry, I agree with John.


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## Sac (Jun 14, 2008)

Thanks folks. We have 2 milling bussiness's close by and a third a few miles away. I'll get some pricing from them today. Who knows they may be able to beat the overall price for everything. Anyway looks like my first project will be installed after several other projects since the wood will be sitting for awhile. Thank you all again for the advice and opinions on how to do this.

I can't imagine another resourse anywhere as good as LJ's!


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## Sac (Jun 14, 2008)

NewMexico,
You bring up an interesting point. We have considered Bamboo. But due to the cost oak will be done instead. The one thing about wood floors we had in our other house is that it does cut down on any alergens. That goes for about any flooring other than carpet. We're not concerned about the scratches. It's going to happen to us. We have 3 golden's. And we'll be in this house till we're gone from this earth. Pine is just to soft. Red oak is nice but around here it is more expensive than white oak due to the fact that alot of the builders are starting to use it by request from the buyers. Thanks for the link though. there is good info there.


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## woodbutcher (Dec 29, 2006)

Sac,
John is definitely correct about the milling that needs to be done. Also the felt paper 15# roofing felt is sufficient don't use the foam underlay designed for floating floor systems it provides too much unnecessary spacing between the wood flooring and the sub-flooring you're going to nail tonce your wood fllooring has acclimated in the house where it is to be installed-check the moisture content with a pin meter there should be no more than 4% difference between the wood flooring and the sub-floor. Be sure and leave a minimum 1/2"-3/4" spacing around the perimeter of the wood flooring and any stationary objects in the room. This spacing or gap will be hidden by the wall base and quarter round molding when you trim it out. This spacing is critical to prevent the movement which will occur from causing the wood to buckle up.After all the proper milling is done finishing the one side and the beveled edges is sufficient. If you can find the poly-urethane with the aluminum oxide added this is the most durable finish currently available for flooring products of wood. Good luck!
Sincerely,
Ken McGinnis


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## Sac (Jun 14, 2008)

oh cool. Thanks for answering about the 15# roofing felt. I have a couple of rolls left over. 1/2 in on the outside perimiter. ok. I hadn't thought about the possability of it buckling if I ran it all the way up to the wall which I had planned on doing. Now I know why the oak laminate in the basement is buckling. I didn't run it. We hired that out and he ran it all to the walls edges. on one wall it is buckling a little bit. I may be mistaking about laminate being able to buckle since I have never laid it before or read about laying it.


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## Sac (Jun 14, 2008)

Thanks NewMexico, I never took it personal or will take anything here personal unless it is a direct attack which I doubt very seriously will ever happen here at LJ's. Need Rain. Hot & Humid…


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## Newton (Jun 29, 2008)

This thread is information sharing at it's best!


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## Sac (Jun 14, 2008)

Yes it is Don.
I consider myself a beginner at woodworking since I really haven't constructed anything since the early 80's. Now it has become a fulltime passion. You all here at LJ's make it even more enjoyable because you do answer my long winded post with your knowledge and experience which I hope to have and be able to share. I print alot of post nad put them in my Note binder in tha garage. I can't say enough about my appreciation of you folks here.


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## oldworld124 (Mar 2, 2008)

I would not recommend using 15# felt. You will want to use a thinner paper that is made for hardiboard and wonderboard underlayment and wood floors. It usually is a tannish color. The paper is slicker and allows the flooring to expand and contract. It is much easier to lay down and will outlast us. One other very important thing is to make sure the subfloor is very flat and free of any debris that might cause a plank to be set off of the floor a bit. 
You will also have a better time installing the flooring if you use a rneumatic floor nailer. It will save you a lot of time and yo will not be so tired at the end of the day. I use a Portamatic nailer. But, Bostich, Senco, and Porter Cable also sell nailers. I bought a Portamatic because it came with an angle base that can be adjusted for different flooring thicknesses and also a flat base that allows one to set nails into the top of the planks when fasteneing the last couple of rows against the wall. 
You will also have to hand nais 2 to 3 rows of planking when you get close to the last rows against the wal. You get the nails as close the the top of the plank without denting the edge with thehammer. Then set it the rest of the way with a nail set.


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## sondich (May 26, 2008)

Sac,
There's a lot of good advice in these responses. My only suggestion is to not compromise on anything for the sake of making your project easier. Make sure you and you wife are happy with the floor. I know a few people who compromised on their floor for the sake of convenience or because they got a great price on some flooring. Walking by it every day continually reminded them of what they didn't like about it. Good luck.


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## Sac (Jun 14, 2008)

With the Barn work and all this has been a slow project to start. All the wood is stained and finished. We had to do this in stages due to it being installed in the living room and no place for the dogs to be put up and away from the flooring. So today I will install the floorin g and get some pictures when it's done and post them here.


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## RichardB (Nov 5, 2008)

I just saw this thread for the first time.

I haven't installed wood flooring, but I imagine it is a lot like laying tile.

Which makes me want to warn you that it's just like painting. You can't hide anything under the floor, all you do is change the color. Make sure the surface underneath is smooth! Trust me…. Hopefully you read this in time.

Another tip that should be timely is about the baseboard. Lay a bead of silicon under the edge to seal it to the floor. Then if there's a spill, or you just get carried away mopping, the water won't get underneath the floor and cause damage.


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## Sac (Jun 14, 2008)

Good Idea about the silicon. I am about 1/2 through and should finish laying the floor today. It's smooth and level underneath. So far we're very happy with it. That's a good thing huh? hehehe


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## jim1953 (Nov 18, 2007)

I put a oak floor in the kitchen from a old barn that was built in 1800 the guy I got from did the t&g I nail with manuel nailer the finished was 3/4 I love recycling wood


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## jenvarberg (May 28, 2009)

Jerry,

Great idea about the note binder in your garage. I usually copy ideas and put it in a folder on my desktop, but I will have to do the binder for sure!

I just realized that this post is OLD! But, I thought I'd still reply anyway, in hopes that you will see it. I love this place and I just can't learn it all quickly enough!

So, by this time you have had the wood down for a while. How'd it go? Does it look good? Did you have any problems we can learn from? What kind of wood did you end up using?

Thanks!

Jen


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