# Outboard turning Union Graduate



## JoshNZ (Jun 22, 2015)

Just wondering if any of you guys have played with the outboard side of a Union Graduate, or Jubilee, or Wadkin etc. Any of those old English models that had a bowl turning setup on the left hand side of the headstock.

I just picked one up for a really good deal, and before I even got there I was talking to my buddy about machining a RH thread on the outboard side, so that I could put a DC motor or VFD motor and run it in reverse, then stand on the other side and turn as per normal.

However, the more I think about it, the less unusual I imagine it feels. It's not exactly 'left handed' turning as I initially imagined. The only real difference would be during hollowing, my right hand would be swinging away from me and left hand would be anchored with pulling force, rather than vice versa in both cases.

What do you guys think, does it take much getting used to or should I rip the spindle out and machine it? There doesn't appear to be much in the way of fittings for MT3 and the 1-1/2"6TPI thread either. I imagine this to be my 'forever' lathe so would be nice to avoid pissing with morse and thread adapters all the time.


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## JoshNZ (Jun 22, 2015)

The contactor was chattering away when I first started it so I cleaned that up and am in the process of tidying up the wiring, I guess it might get some use before I get around to getting setup with a variable speed.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

I think you would get used to the opposite rotation. Im thinking like you - the taper and thread size issues are the problem. You will probably have to have a new spindle shaft machined which could get spendy - without looking up dimensions I dont know if there is enough material to machine different tapers and threads on the existing shaft. Nice looking old lathe.

Depends on what you paid for, for me Im not sure I would be willing to spend the $ to add vs and fix the spindle shaft, and have all of the bandaids such a conversion usually results in vs buying new or newer. If you enjoy the challenge tho, it is rewarding if and when you get it all sorted out.


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## JoshNZ (Jun 22, 2015)

I paid $500NZD for it, ~$360USD, so not a lot in it yet.

I have a friend with an engineering shop who will turn a new shaft if it comes to that but he suggested turning the thread off, building it back up and then rethreading. I think I'd be OK with that. A MT3 to MT2 adapter isn't too expensive in NZ but just a pain in the ass. If I wanted to change to a MT2 taper I think it would have to be a new shaft as you say.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

Don't see many Union Graduate, earlier model Jubilee, or even Wakin lathes in North America these days. The optionalc outboard faceplate or sanding disk that came with those lathes used more as a hand wheel or sanding disk than for outboard turning. Of course outboard faceplates had lefthand threads. Inboard faceplates came with right hand threads. At one time would have no difficulty finding proper in/outboard faceplates/sanding disk with for your lathe, not so sure cost today.

Many older lathes made in North America had same set up r/h & l/h in/outboard thread set up although spindle size lot different. Only MT3 spindle lathe know made here was a Conover lathe and no longer made. It had 1 1/2" x 8 TPI spindle in/outboard. Some chuck makers still offer a threaded insert for that late. Still every now and then find a used Conover comes up for sale.

Since most people use chucks today might look at a Nova chuck for in board turning although will have to order proper insert from them. You really don't want a machnist chuck for woodturning. Lot has to do with cost of faceplates today and using screws, waste blocks, paper glue joints and time!

https://www.teknatool.com/product/nova-chuck-insertsadaptors/

Whole idea of outboard turning not that popular with turners here because of expense or shoddy expensive three legged stands sold. Can buy a short bed from manufacturer which screws onto end of my lathe but need a different tool rest base (banjo) or modified tool rest. My head stock will slide to end of the lathe or turn it around for outboard turning. So far haven't had a need to do any outboard turning.

Good luck with your new lathe!


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## JoshNZ (Jun 22, 2015)

At this point I'm either ordering a 1-1/2"x6TPI to M38×3mm adapter, then running a nova chuck on that (if I've understood right, there is one from a supplier here that will fit). Will have to be chuck+face rings forever. For the taper, there is an MT3 to MT2 sleeve available in NZ I see no reason why that wouldn't work. Would be about $130NZ for both adapters.
That leaves the outboard side completely useless though.

Or I could knock the spindle out and let the machine shop at it. Going to whatever the closest commonly available thread to 1-1/2" is. If my friend says he can do it after looking at it, I'll believe him! He's pretty clever.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

I suspect 1-1/4×8 tpi. Can he machine an mt2 taper into it as well? I guess another sleeve could work.


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## JoshNZ (Jun 22, 2015)

I think MT3 is larger than MT2 so there would be no way to machine it. He suggested welding in an adapter. But I could just use the adapter loose.

1-1/4"x8 is what I was thinking. Glad somebody else said it too.

My concern is distorting the shaft, the taper in particular, or ruining hardening and making the thing brittle. But as I said he'll know more about that than I.


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## JoshNZ (Jun 22, 2015)

The spindle came out piece of cake, I got it moving with a rubber mallet believe it or not. The pulley was the stubborn bit but a squirt with the pneumatic chisel and a drift had it on its way, bearings and all. I guess it may not be the original bearings with how easily they came out, and they have zero slop.

I sent Lee from LRE machinery an e-mail about it and he replied in minutes. He said he frequently machines them down to M33×3.5 without doing anything to them beforehand, which leaves plenty of thickness. Big thanks to him for the tip if he ever visits! Nova do an M33 direct thread so that is what I'll do I think. Both inboard and outboard so it's useable in some way at least.


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