# Hand plane identification



## bluekingfisher (Mar 30, 2010)

I know there are a lot of hand plane fans out there so I am hoping one of you guys can help with identification of a hand plane I have lying in my tool chest.

I was watching a Rob Cosman video on hand planes the other evening and got me wondering about the hand planes I have but rarely use.

I was going to try to tune up a little Stanley Bailey No4 plane I have, I think I bought it at a flea market about 15 years ago, anyways I was hoping someone could give me some details on it's age etc and if it is worth keeping or is it just one from a batch of 10 billion made yestertear.

The markings on the bed at the base of the rear tote read like this

PAT - 0
MAR - 25 - 02
AUG - 19 - 02
APR - 19 - 10

On the chip breaker it is stamped, New Britain, Conn, USA

Any info would be appreciated.

David


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

It's a piece of total detrious, better send it to me for safe disposal.
.
Oh, well, maybe not.
.
It's a great tool. Don't have the type studies in front of me, but I'm going to guess it has what's called a low knob and a plain lever cap. That'd make it a Type 11, but it could be a Type 12. Between the wars, late 19-teens. A common smoother, really, but an excellent user.


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## bluekingfisher (Mar 30, 2010)

Thanks Smitty, its in pretty good condition although the reat tote has been re glued at some point. If I were to keep it is it worth buying a replacement and thicker blade or just use it as it is.

Had I known I should have taken a couple of photographs. If you would think it worthy I'll take some photos of it tomorrow for you to see??

Yes it has a stubby low front tote and the lever cap is smooth (no brand name or anything stamped on it)

Anyways thanks for your info.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

With 3 patent dates behind the frog, Smitty's right, its most likely a type 11 or 12. An 11 will have a low front knob and a small brass iron adjustment knob (about 1"). A 12 will have a high knob and a larger brass iron adjustment knob ( about 1 1/4").

Both should have the frog adjustment screw.

Its definitely worth putting to use. These are some of my favorite vintages. We'd love to see some pictures.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

It can very effectively be used with the original iron! It's maybe a $35 tool, depending on condition, street prices may vary. But you made a solid purchase those years ago! Pictures welcome, as Don said.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

sorry, forgot to mention the original iron. Ditto on what Smitty said.

Depending on condition $35 is in the middle of the price range.


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## bluekingfisher (Mar 30, 2010)

Thanks for the info gents, I guess it must be the type 11 then, it has a low front tote and the adjuster is an inch.

I guess at $35 its worth holding onto and putting to use. I bought it for £0.50 so on that reckoning I'm in the money.

Thanks again


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

This is one spot Smitty and I disagree. Type 11 is on of my favorites. I'm working on a complete set, including all smooth and corrugated. Smitty's more of a high knob SW guy. That Bailey will sere you well.


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## bluekingfisher (Mar 30, 2010)

Thanks Don, it is a nice little plane, I had not realised that it was so old, maybe because I am no expert on hand planes and they all look the same to me although having cleaned it up a little and viewed your blog on renovations I can see how collecting planes can become addictive.

I have already printed off a template of the rear handle from Lee Valley tools as per identified on your blog
I won't replace the handle on the bailey but I have several other planes which could do with some customisation.

Thanks again for the hints and tips on how to go about fettling and fitting the totes and handles.

David


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## Arminius (Dec 27, 2007)

Agree with DonW - the Type 11 might well be the best user type Stanley ever made, barring the Bedrock types. Tuned and fitted with a modern iron they can perform with the best.


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## bluekingfisher (Mar 30, 2010)

Thanks Arminus, further reassurance and satisfaction of my flea market find.


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## racerglen (Oct 15, 2010)

"I bought it for £0.50 so on that reckoning I'm in the money." 
Yes you are !


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## bluekingfisher (Mar 30, 2010)

For those you showed an interest and gave some valuable information I have added some photos for you to see the little Bailey plane.

BTW how do I go about setting the blade for a light cut? Do I adjust the frog first then the iron or the iron first then the blade which ever way I try to do it I either cut a thick slice or I clog the mouth.

Anywat here it is.

Thanks gents














































.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Blue - That's a nice plane!

RE: Fettling. The abbreviated version is something like this: Set the frog 'depth' so that the angled face of the frog matches the bevel of the mouth. Not back, not forward. The same. For now…

Set the chipbreaker to the iron with a 1/16" of the iron revealed from the cutting edge. Place it in against the frog, snap the lever cap in place (shouldn't be too easy or too hard. If either, turn the capscrew a quarter turn at a time until it's right)

Draw the iron back until it doesn't cut. Then spin the adjuster a bit at a time until it does cut just a bit. It'll be off-center. Use the lateral adjust to get it right. Sight down the bed of the plane whilst it's upside down, knob end towards your face, like you'd check for crown in a board. You should see the iron peeking out. Use the adjuster to get it even, and better yet a piece of scrap run back and forth across the cutting edge to see there's (barely) uniform contact.

Try a cut now…

Repeat as often as needed to get it where you want it.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Here is what I do. First I set the frog so its as even as I can get it to the back side of the mouth.

I then put everything back together and drop the blade until I can just barely see it when I sight down the sole.
I just laterally if needed, and it usually does.
I then set it on the wood and slide the plane forward. If the iron grabs, back the blade off.
Then in very small increments I lower the blade and test by moving forward.
You may find you'll get thin shavings from one side to the other. If that happens, move the lat adjuster toward the shavings, just a little.
Test again and lower again, in very small increments.

At some points, you'll need to check and see how wide the mouth is. Once you start taking thin shaving, if the mouth is to wide, move the frog forward, if its closed up tight, move the frog backward, and start the above again.

It sounds like a lengthy process, but once the frog is set its set. And the rest once you've done it a few times only takes a few seconds.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I see, as usual, Smitty snuck in ahead of me!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

'twixt the two accounts, Blue, you're an expert. 

Good luck, tell us how it goes!


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## Arminius (Dec 27, 2007)

I would venture to say that in that condition, it is probably worth more than $35 - it is in better shape than my #4, and I recall paying somewhere around that. Definitely one to tune and keep in a prominent place around the bench. I bought mine as a temporary step until I could afford a L-N #4, but a few years on I just don't see much point, it does everything I could want it to do (and L-N makes other toys..)

David Charlesworth did a really nice article in FWW #172 on the tuning process.


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## bluekingfisher (Mar 30, 2010)

Smitty, Don, Arminius, thanks very much for the assistance and guidance, particularly on the age and how to set the plane up.
I guess I was doing what you have described, just not in that sequence, which would appear to have caused me the problems. I had the same trouble setting up a RAS untill some kindly LJ put me straight, now it cuts a dream so I am naturally hoping for the same results with the Bailey.

I'll give the set up process a go over the weekend fellahs so hopefully i will be able to take a couple of photos with wafer like shavings curling out and report back. If not I may have to beg your assistance again.

Thanks guys, very much appreciated.

David


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## bluekingfisher (Mar 30, 2010)

Are you on the right thread daniel?


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## sikrap (Mar 15, 2009)

She's a beaut and the Type 11 is one of my favorites. From what I can see from the pics, it looks to me like all you need to do is sharpen the blade, follow the advice given by Smitty and Don and you'll be ready to make some very nice fluffies. The only advice I would offer a difference on is the distance you set the chip breaker from the edge of the iron. If you're going to use it as a smoother, I find I have better luck if I bring the edge of the chip breaker up to about 1/32" from the edge of the plane. Enjoy that baby!!!


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## bluekingfisher (Mar 30, 2010)

Fellahs - Just thought i would report back on the little Bailey. Don /Smitty, I took your advice and spent about and hour or so on Friday evening fiddling about and sharpening the blade. I sharpened the blade using some sandpaper glued to a slab of MDF, It worked pretty good. Then I remembered I had some 1200 grit wet and dry paper so I used that as a final means of sharpening the blade, works a treat.
It took me a little bit of time to get the shavings even in thickness. I think I may have to go back and ensure a square edge?? although I have read somewhere that the corner edges of the blade should be rounded to reduce the risk of creating a ridge at the edge of the timber once planed? I took a couple of pictiures just to show the nice ribbons it produced. I'll upload them for you to see the produce of my endeavours and your advice.

It was quite satisfing just planing away an old scrap of timber, apart from that I couldn't believe how smooth the surface was ( I guess that's why they call it a smotther doh) There was some unruly grain and even a small knot on the section I planed but the end result was nothing short of amazing, so thanks for the advice chaps. While I was at it, I gave the same treatment to a #5 plane I have and between the two I had a rough piece of timber squared and edged in no time. It got me thinking, by the time you set up your jointer and hook up the DC I could have had the timber planed to perfection. I'm sure for small jobs this is the way I'll go from now on.

Sikrap - thanks for the kind words, I was going to ask the guys about the point you raised. With the frog set level with the back of the plane mouth I have about 3/32 " of a gap betweem the cutting edge of the blade and the the front edge of the mouth. Is this about right? or should I advance the frog to reduce this gap??

Thanks again guys, I'm now a true believer in the power of hand planes, much appreciated.

David


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

David - On a smoother, you can close that gap a bit, yes. But know that at a certain point shavings obviously won't pass as freely; that's too tight. 

Yes on rounded corners. Lay the iron flat on your bench, and with a metal file setting on the bench on a long side, take a couple swipes at each corner and you're done. Another approach to elininating that 'dig in' is putting camber on the irons…


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## bluekingfisher (Mar 30, 2010)

Thanks Smitty for the further tips. The plane produces what I would consider a nice thin shaving already, certainly thinner than a sheet of paper and whilst not gossemer thin I should think more than adequate for my needs, at least for the time being.

I may tinker a little, purely for experimentaional purpose and as a means of understanding the workings of the tool, hopefully at some point I will gauge how close I need the blade to the front to acheive a good result without having to worry about clogging the mouth.

I have certainly enjoyed the experience and may start to look out for more planes at flea markets and the like. Over the years I have seen tons of them lying on tables or tail beds of those trying to unload them. I'm sure I'll find a valuable piece or two if I look long enough although when you start looking you can never find them!!

Thanks again and I'll try the tip with the camber on the blade

David


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## bluekingfisher (Mar 30, 2010)

A couple of photos to prove I got it about right with the final tuning fellahs. I hope you can make out the gap between the blade and front of the mouth? Is this close enough fpr most work or should I look to bring it forward a tad?

Not much of a collection but a starting point, should get me by on most of my jobs.

Thanks again for all the help guys.

David


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

see if this helps
http://lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/30376


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## bluekingfisher (Mar 30, 2010)

Nice one Don, I'll give it a go and hopefully get some results close to your own


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Seems I re-built one of these #4s awhile back. Started out a bit "rough"









got things back together…









and a little sharpening









Just takes awhile, is all…


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## bluekingfisher (Mar 30, 2010)

Hey bandit good job on the salavage, mine wasn't in as bad condition as yours first was but not a million miles behind. Glad to see you have brought it back to life.


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