# What would you have done or not done to your shop, what are you happy that you did do



## agallant (Jul 1, 2010)

We are about to sit down with the builder and get a house built. The plan we selected has a garage that is 24X20. Deal with the wife was if she got a new house then I would get all of the garage, no cars allowed.

My last shop I made a few mistakes that I can think of

1. Not enough outlets on the ceiling
2. Wish I put in more dedicated 20A outlets
3. Wish I put in more 240V outlets
4. Wish I had more windows for natural light

For those of you who have built a shop what do you wish you did better or are very happy that you did do?


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## Tedstor (Mar 12, 2011)

Adding to your list:
Electrical subpanel. 
Utility sink would be choice.
Windows are also good ventilators.
Speaking of ventilation…..an exhaust fan would be great.
Climate control? Afterall, you won't be parking in the garage. 
An exterior entryway/side door. 
Phone jack? I keep a cordless phone in the garage. 
Will the garage have an attic? Look for ways to effectively use that space.


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## agallant (Jul 1, 2010)

Good ideas

My electrition friend suggested that we put a subpannel in the garuage seeing as I am not going to have it drywalled, I was going to do the walls in OSB myself

The plan has a side door

I was thinking of getting some handing storage.


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

Sheet the interior walls (at least the top 1/2) with 3/4 plywood or similar. That allows you to mount stuff just about anywhere without worrying about locating studs. Paint it with gloss or semi-gloss white to reflect light and you won't be sorry.

I didn't do that and should have, but when I build a new shop (hopefully in the next couple of years) it will be done that way.

Also consider the ceiling height. Most garages are 8ft, but 9 or 10ft would be better for a shop.

Edit: For climate control, radiant floor heating might be a great option and doesn't add much cost if done during construction.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

There are a couple of things for a garage shop…
- Make certain that you have plenty of lights or switched outlets in the ceiling for lights. 
- I put a celing fan in the garage for when I am working out there.
- I am really torn about the windows issue as they give great light but it is easy for people to see in and break in.
- Some type of security system for the garage and maybe a heat sensor for fire
- I did an addition of one bay on the garage and put in a double back door and am very happy with it.
- Do you need some type of heat depending on where you live.
- Insulation on the ceiling and walls with 1/2" wood sheathing over it so you can mount tools on the walls.

- Is 24×20 big enough….bigger is always better.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Insulate the garage doors. Make sure that the floor doesn't have excessive "fall". What flooring have ya chosen?
Potty room? Pre plumb for air? How are ya gonna handle dust cololection?
Bill


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## MikeThrockmorton (Nov 4, 2013)

If you haven't already, you might want to watch the Wood Whisperer's dream shop build vids:

http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/the-dream-shop-build-begins/

As he is located in Arizona, his environmental concerns may be different than yours.

But, hey, if you're located in a climate like mine (Mar's is beginning to look like a nice vacation spot) you may wish to have a shop inter-dimensional extrusion into Arizona so you could step in there when the local shop segment becomes too cold.


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## BArnold (May 20, 2013)

I'm not sure I can add much to what has been said already, but I have a few thoughts:

- An electrical sub-panel with plenty of space for adding breakers. I have 100A service extended to my shop building, a total of 30 circuit breakers with a total capacity of 460A. Maximum load might approach 70A with several machines running.

- Electrical outlets: I have none in the ceiling, but plenty on each wall. All are at a height of 50" to the bottom of the box, 48" apart. Each wall is on a seperate 20A breaker. I have 220V circuits in locations where I need them, plus a couple provisioned to allow re-arrangements.

- Lighting: One room of my shop is 20×24, in which I have 12 T8 2-bulb fixtures mounted in 22.5"x48" boxes I built. I used a commercial fixture for durability. The other room is 16×25, in which I have 8 fixtures.

- Dust collection: as much as you can afford. I started with a 1.5hp unit, then graduated to a 3hp cyclone when I built my new shop.

- If you can go bigger, do it. I started in a two-car garage and could have been happy with that size. When we re-located, I had room to build a bigger shop which is 36×24 overall.


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## agallant (Jul 1, 2010)

Great Stuff guys so far I have chosen or like the following

Prewiring on the cealing for cealing fans
Concreet floor that I will do the rustoluim epoxy coating on
sub panel for just the shop
OSB or plywood walls painted gloss wite
Exterior door
slop sink
The plan includes two windows
As for heat I live in NC, I use a propane construction heater, I may consider getting heating/cooling added
Cable and cat5 jack
The garage will be wired in to the security system, we also want to get a DVR based system so a camera will go in there. 
Insulated walls and ceiling

Keep the ideas coming guys, this is great input.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Sure that lots of folks will say "bigger"

I wish mine was about a foot wider. I have 14X21 and 15X21 would make a big difference - as the tablesaw (with 52 inch fence and the Jointer are side by side, and I wish there was a little wider aisle between them…. course I could stand to be less Fat too ;-)

Biggest mistake - I set my outlets at 48 inches from the floor. But it is 48 inches to the top of the box not the bottom.
So the sheet goods of course PERFECTLY cover the outlets. 48 to the bottom of the box would have been ideal, but you don't spot that til you are painted and moved in… then the first sheets get placed against the wall and you say "FUDGE!"


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## hoosier0311 (Nov 8, 2012)

some sort of extra sound barrier on the shared wall and the ceiling if there is living space above the garage. also plan on plenty of ventilation capabilty, one does not want to smell up the entire house with laquer.


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## reedwood (Jan 27, 2011)

motion sensor flood lights front, side and back and inside.

separate heat system from house

carpet runners where you stand. I carpeted the whole floor in mine. but I'm in c-c-c-cold Chicago.

Personally, I would wire, insulate, drywall, paint and finish it like a regular house. That way, when you go to sell it, they won't have a problem with it. think resale.

OSB is about the ugliest thing out there to look at, even if you paint it. spider web dust magnet too…. BAH! 
It's way overkill and more expensive per sheet. DW is more labor of course.

You have studs every 16" to nail to. You can install a 4×8 section of pegboard or slat board on 1xs where you want. You can hang cabinets, cleats…anything you want on it. It deadens sound and is a better sealed insulator too.

You could add a garage door slab with windows on the top which would let in a lot of light and maintain security without everyone seeing in like a low window. Doesn't take up wall space like a window either.

Stick frame, vault and drywall the ceiling. Huge difference! check out my shop, that's what I did. Trusses really suck for storage.

cable for TV…..can't miss The Wood wright's Shop!


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Maybe not in your location, but some places will require drywall as a fire stop if a shop is attached to the house.
Would be a good idea to check your insurance also. They may have additional requirements.


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## Armandhammer (Dec 12, 2013)

I have a shop area that's 7'x6'. Yeah…that's right, 7'x6'. And one outlet…haha


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Maybe frame in for skylights in the future? Much easier to do before the ceiling is covered, and if you never install them, no biggie, if you do, more free light and minimal work to do so. +1 to the 240V outlets.


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## agallant (Jul 1, 2010)

"Maybe not in your location, but some places will require drywall as a fire stop if a shop is attached to the house."

Good point. Now that I think of it I have never seen one that does not have drywall. The contractor will know what I can and can't get away with in terms of drywall or not. I am just trying to get the list togeather that I will present the contractor with.


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## Noodle (Dec 10, 2013)

Just finishing up my freestanding 20×40 shop. Started out as a 20×24 garage, added 725 sq. ft. to it. Some things that have worked out well are

-sub panel with 125 amps. Allows for plenty of outlets and 220 where you want it. Consider a few switched outlets in the ceiling for fans or air filters. Also installed some outlets at a standard 12" height along with the 45" to run cords under the bench/tool instead of on top of.
-used 12 T8 2 bulb fixtures to light shop. Provides plenty of light with no shadowing.
- I completely furred the concrete floor and insulated it with ridged foam board topped with 3/4 T&G plywood. Ran conduit under the floor to table saw/jointer so no cords will be on floor to trip over. Really made heating the area more efficient.
-after talking with my plumber I used concealed PVC for airlines. Ran them in the ceiling and walls ( make sure to pressure test) prior to drywall on ceiling and 5/8 plywood on walls. Made numerous drops in shop so no long hoses are needed. Plywood walls are great, no problem attaching anything where you want it.
- did insulate the carriage house type doors. I live in a cold/hot climate in northern CA where it is necessary. Used an 50 amp electric heater from Northern Tool to heat my shop.
-ran speaker wire in attic space and have 4 recessed speakers in ceiling, keeps them out of the way.
- I have an attached 16×12 storage room for my air compressor and dust collector to live in, ran a layer of sound board (drywall product) prior to plywood to additional sound control.
- a sink with small hot water heater is a must.
- consider additional blocking/backing for lights, wall hung wood racks prior to wall close up.
Hope this helps.
Enjoy the ride.
Marv


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

Armandhammer - I think I have you beat, with my 7' x 7' and TWO outlets!. Wait, it's on one 15A circuit. Nevermind…lets call it a tie.


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## TheWoodenOyster (Feb 6, 2013)

I'd try to put as much as possible on wheels. I suppose since you have a large shop, the wheels might not be quite as important, but I find that I roll my stuff around all the time and I love the flexibility. Also, try to put tabletops at the same height, that way everything can be a pair of sawhorses or an outfeed table. That isn't possible for all things, but you can do it with a few things.

Second, I was reading a FWW special magazine "Workshop Solutions" and came across what seems to be a good plan for effective HVAC on a budget. There is something called a Packaged Terminal Air Conditioner or a PTAC. A PTAC is basically a small heat pump and is what you often see in hotel rooms. Looks like his cost was about $750. They are basically 220v window units on steroids. You can just leave a hole in the wall and then set them and plug them in. They can even be linked to a thermometer. The author said his has been through a Nashville winter and summer, and seems as efficient as the heat pump for his house (his shop is insulated though, which would probably be a good idea for climate control). His shop is 700 SF, for reference. Might be a good option for you, and you could possibly go with a smaller one for your shop and still get by fine. He seems very pleased with his. I strongly recommend that article by Matthew Teague, it is on p. 114 of "Workshop Solutions"

I'd recommend that you purchase two FWW special edition magazines: "Setting up Shop" and "Workshop Solutions". They are about $10 each and give you good and concise info on how to layout and build a shop that is efficient and enjoyable to work in. You could read them both in a day and get some solid ideas.

P.S. Excited for you to have windows. I have always wanted windows in my shop and I can't wait to have them. Good Luck!!! Hope that helped!!!


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## Armandhammer (Dec 12, 2013)

paxorion…haha…yeah, let me add that my outlet is old and doesn't even have a three prong receptacle…lol…it's also 15A. I like to call my shop….intimate rather than small. Heck, it's not even a shop…it's the corner of a spare room that we use for storage…haha Better than nothing though.

I do have a window though.


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## teejk (Jan 19, 2011)

I wish I had run electric in the floor but I wasn't exactly sure where the tools would sit plus I would have been fighting the in-floor tubing. I have a partition wall separating the unfinished "cold" side from the finished side and didn't plan the placement of the doors too well, losing valuable wall space. Other than that, I put the garage and entry doors on the side-wall and not the gable end (the builder told me not to to that but I didn't listen). When snow decides to slide off the roof, the fact that it sits in the sun for awhile before it decides to drop, combined with gravity, when it lands it forms concrete.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

> I'd want two 3 phase lines at least - one for a dust collector
and the other for any other machine at the same time. They
can run on the same breaker fed through a rotary phase converter.

> Other than that, I'd prefer half a dozen 240v single phase
circuits.

> I don't mind having ducting overhead but I think having it
under a wood floor would be nice.

> Some sort of reinforced beam or gantry overhead for 
a 1 ton hoist.

> Enough headroom under and door access to put a 
vertical panel saw like a Holz-her againts one wall. 
As things are, I built my own to fit my shop, but 
it was a big project.


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

All the points you mentioned, plus good lighting fixtures (and lots of them).


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## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

NO POSTS! ;^)


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

Armandhammer - my shop is in my backyard, between the support posts of my deck… But at least my outlets are 3 prong and grounded?


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

I am happy with my shop more or less the way it is, at least the way I designed it, HOWEVER, If I had a chance, and the bucks to do it any way I wanted I would…

#1. Separate building, not an attached garage. While I like the size I have for the most part I would also grow it a little bit, from 18×20 to 18×24, and add a second floor (Gambrel roof barn please!). The second floor would be for lumber storage. The building should be a fully dedicated shop, no shared storage! No ladders, lawn mowers, pressure washers, floor jacks, jack stands etc… It would be 100% wood working shop!
#2. Add a half bath. (Commode and sink) so that the necessities can be easily taken care of…
#3. Windows for natural light. My shop is completely windowless. It's fine during about 4 weeks, 2 in spring, 2 in fall when the weather is just right to have the doors open, but other than that… 
#4. Fully insulate the walls, packed sheathing to drywall with expanding foam insulation. And if I don't have to have sheet rock, I would very happily go with 1/2" plywood walls.
#5. Have only one overhead door. The dual doors taking up the entire front wall is a pain… 
#6. Dedicated HVAC, not tack on stuff / portable units. A PTAC or even one of those LG A/C wall units with heat would be sufficient, however ducted AC / heat would be better… The space isn't huge though, and is pretty easy to heat / AC as long as it is insulated well.
#7. Radiant barrier.

What has worked well so far for me is…
#1. Wood Magazine clamshell cabinets. These things allow me tons of storage in very little space.
#2. Closetmaid heavy duty shelf standards and brackets. I am using these in various sizes for the lumber rack, tool stacker, and spraying / misc shelving.
#3. 24" deep x 72" long workbench top. Height matching Table saw -1/8" for outfeed support. VERY helpful.
#4. Miter saw / mortiser cabinets attached, and heights arranged so that the tables for both the miter saw, and mortiser work as outfeed for each other.
#5. Mortiser accessory cleat mounted to side of mortiser cabinet. Keeps everything VERY handy, and easy access.
#6. Simple drilled tray mounted to bottom spreaders of HF lathe lase to hold my turning tools. I have hit its limit, but it has worked great so far!. My next step is to make a turning tool and ballast cabinet as a replacement base.
#7. 7 T12 dual bulb shop light fixtures. Although bulb styles are changing fast, and while T8 is the current standard, I expect T5 to surpass it before my T12 fixtures / ballaats and bulb supply go bad. When I replace them I will go with T 5s…
#8. Dedicated sub panel. Again if this is a new building I would probably pull more in, like maybe 100 amps instead of 60. But for my small garage shop, 60 is fine. I have plenty of 20 amp dedicated circuits, in both 110 and 220 Volts. My lighting is on the original house circuit and takes FAR less amperage than the original incandescent fixtures that were there when I bought the house… 
#9. Semi gloss white paint on the walls, flat white ceiling paint, and bright white trim and cabinet paint. Easy to keep clean, and allows maximum use of the light available.
#10. Ducted dust collection network.


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## longgone (May 5, 2009)

I decided against using a standard garage door when I built my shop and instead installed French doors that are 6 ft wide and have glass panels with blinds in the middle of the insulated glass. I have one set on the front of my shop and another set on the side.They are much more energy efficient, let in light and I have never brought anything into my shop that made me wish the doors were wider.

I also have a 16×24 ft covered overhand on one side that I can park my van under and a 12×8 covered overhang over the other French doors. I can keep the doors open even in the heaviest rain and can also work outside when necessary.

Enclose your dust collection to reduce noise.

I installed a window air condition unit that also has a heater built in. It always keeps the shop comfortable in any weather conditions.

*Spray Foam Insulation* great insulation and soundproofing as well…


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## Armandhammer (Dec 12, 2013)

paxorion…I hope it's at least warn where you're at. My table saw is out on the carport so I can't use it much because it's been really cold this winter. But at least the other stuff is inside. My saving grace is the possibility that we might be getting a new house…well…it's an old house but new to us. It has a 600+^ft area for a shop so I'll be set if we get it. It'll be overkill really cause I'll never be able to fill or utilize the entire space.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

My shop is uninsulated and unheated. When I got started it was just a garage, and I didn't foresee my interest growing like it did…..sure wish I'd insulated the garage first! If you're running electrical, add 220v.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

Armandhammer, you just think you will never be able to fill 600 sq. ft. I have managed to fill 1800+ ft. I have an area that has the pallet racks like they use in Lowe's. that is great for storage and it is up there and not used.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I would have had a people door in the front so I didn't have to open the garage door ever time I come and go.
I would have had in floor heat.
Of course I would have built my shop larger if I could have.
I would have built a separate out side wood storage(wood fills every nook and cranny of my shop).
Things I did you may consider.
I Installed a separate electrical service from the house,not a sub panel.
I built a in floor chase to run DC,electrical and air in.
I have my DC and air compressor out side to conserve floor space and reduce noise and dust.
I have 14' tall ceilings 
I have a lot of 1'x 2' windows high up just below the roof line for additional wall space and security
I planed my sheets good storage so I can tilt a 4×8 sheet of ply and be right in front of the table saw.
I have long 48" strip outlets connected to all sides of my benches and out feed tables.
Like others have said I have every thing on wheels.
I have remote controls to turn my tools like DC on .
I hang most of my jigs and patterns from the ceiling.


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## sgmdwk (Apr 10, 2013)

When we designed our house 13 years ago we gave it a 3-car attached garage (a requirement in our neighborhood). I had the third bay walled off from the other two, to serve as my shop. It is 14 feet wide and 35 feet deep, with plenty of outlets and a 240 outlet in place. I wish the ceiling were lower than 11.5 feet, but that was just the way it worked out.

The one thing I wish I had done is wire in a cable outlet so I could have a TV out in the shop. That isn't work related, but would add a lot to the pleasure I take out there - especially during football season.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

LED lighting as opposed to fluorescent! For more than just environmental considerations as they will dramatically lower you electrical cost, there is no warm up time, they don't put out any heat, and they last an average of 20 years.

I am switching all my lighting to LEDs slowly not only in my shop but also in the house especially where the grand kids can reach the lamps.

Cree is one of the best resources for LED lighting considerations


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

I would reconsider the OSB and go with DW. I would have the contractor install two French cleats, one high, one a couple of feet lower all the way around the shop. In my garage (not shop), I had them install a 2×6 cleat 4' off the floor and I now have it almost completely used for storage of one kind or another. You probably could get away with 1×4 or so for a woodshop, but I wanted to be able to hang a lot of dead weight off of mine.

Also put some outlets in the ceiling to drop power where you might need it.

Pre-plumbing for air is a really nice touch.

Plan how the wire and circuits are distributed, keep the plans, so you can knock another outlet in when you need to down the road. I like the idea of running two circuits around the room with alternating circuits in the outlets as they are placed around the walls. I've even seen someone run two circuits and have all the lower outlets on a different circuit from the upper outlet, or quad boxes with the circuits in the duplexs on different circuits.

Good lighting is really important. T12s look like winners these days. LEDs aren't quite there yet in cost effectiveness.


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## todd1962 (Oct 23, 2013)

In terms of OSB for wall covering…my shop is detached and I was allowed to use it. I painted it and it looks fine. No worry about dings or holes and I can pretty much mount anything anywhere. In terms of cost, I bought most of it as cull items from Lowes. Pretty much every sheet is damaged somehow but you would never know it. See my shop pics at http://lumberjocks.com/todd1962/workshop


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

" T12s look like winners these days. LEDs aren't quite there yet in cost effectiveness."

No. T12s are destined to be gone in just a very few years. T8s are presently the cheapest, and fairly efficient while T5s are the latest trend and brightest with the best efficiency.
LEDs are getting more affordable quickly. What was $40 just a year ago is often on sale now for $12 to $15.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

My shop is detached, but here is what I'm glad I did:
10' ceilings.
people door.
A partial second floor for storage (This also helps in other ways, compressor is up there, (quieter) dust collector is up there (quieter))
1/2" plywood for walls-ceiling. (I HATE DRYWALL). 
An outside carport. Yes, so the cars are under cover but not in my shop. Win-Win. Another advantage, back up to the garage doors when its raining, you still unload under cover.

I wish I had running water.
I wish I had added some kind of drains, even if it was just a container that needed cleanout.
Windows are hard to determine. I wish I had more natural light but hate to loose the wall space. I wish I had put some above the 8' mark.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

For Fluorescent - T8 is the most efficient. Going from T12 to T8 is an improvement, but going to T5 actually starts dropping.
The Standard F32T8 run on an instant start ballast (~80% of the total market) actually runs at about 27 watts (0.88 Ballast Factor)and delivers around 3000 lumens. (most of the 20% remaining - uses dimming and daylight harvesting - - e.g. the skylights control the lamp dimmers)

F28T5 is 28 Watts and delivers 2900 lumens.

Smaller is not better after getting away from T12 - and T5 is MUCH more expensive than T8..

Current LED shaped like fluorescent is slightly less efficient than T8 from a Lumens per watt or LPW standpoint.

They will tout that they are 16 Watts instead of the 32 Watt rating for fluorescent, however they put out half the light. (But indeed true they use 1/2 the power)

Note that Lights of America just got slapped with a 21 Million dollar fine for claims regarding LED savings.
http://www.allledlighting.com/author.asp?section_id=560&doc_id=561305

The initial complaint dates from 2010, when LOA sold LED light bulbs to retailers and claimed that they would last 30,000 hours. In fact, a bulb was tested to exhibit an L20 (yes, you read that right) of 1,000 hours. That is, the bulb *lost 80 percent of its luminance *over a lifetime equivalent to that of a low-cost incandescent (as reported by LEDs Magazine in 2010).

Bulbs that were advertised as suitable replacements for a 45-Watt incandescent were measured at *1/9 the lumen output *of those they were intended to replace. (LOA said in court that "suitable replacement" only meant that their bulbs screwed into the same socket.) The FTC alleged that LOA knew of evidence that belied the lifetime and light-output claims.

Long and short of it is the LED market is operating more like a Billy Mays commercial on late night cable - so READ THE WHOLE LABLE….. there are a ton of really shady claims, that you would have to live with in your shop.


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## agallant (Jul 1, 2010)

I have no plans of going LED. I will more than likely go T5 or T8. I am not out there all day every day just a few hours a week (8-10 at most). I am used to the light that T5/8 put out. LED are way to sketchy now. If I did decide to go LED then I would have to mess with having cans and what not put in.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

Be aware that EPA will be pursuing new Fluorescent bulbs rules for residential use as far how many and proper disposal and possibly a disposal fee.

Yes LOA was hit with this fine but they, IMO, are a not a very reputable company. The best LED suppliers; Cree, Philips, FEIT, and TCP are more forthcoming with true specifications.

LED light bulbs use only 2-17 watts of electricity (1/3rd to 1/30th of Incandescent or CFL). Fluorescent lamps need a warm up period an life span can be reduced by on/off cycling.

8 hours under fluorescent lamps is equal to 1 hour of in exposure due to the UV radiation emitted.

Direct T8 22W LED lamps are available and can be used, without any rewiring, in T8 fixtures.

If it appears that I am pushing LED lighting it is because I used some of the very first Monsanto LEDs ever made back in the early '70's and I can see the dramatic change in that technolgy. No one at that time ever thought that these itty bitty light sources could ever compete with standard lamps and with the improving processes the LED lamps are going to get better. Just think of the first PC at $2500 and the performance compared to today at less than $1000 and a ten fold performance improvement. LED lamps are on the same cost/performance curve.


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## reedwood (Jan 27, 2011)

I know a garage mechanic who lives down the street and has an un-attached garage that's maybe 100 ft. from the back door.
His wife screams at him all the time because he would come in to use the bathroom and track dirt in and get the towels all greasy.

He worked out there all the time doing side jobs

so, he bought a 1" flexible hose and a funnel and drilled a hole in the back wall….....
.
.
.
.
what?..... I'm not suggesting it!

just thought I'd mention it.


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## Woodmaster1 (Apr 26, 2011)

I have a bathroom and an upstairs with a dormer. I wish the stairs for the upstairs was outside. I would again 4 1/2' x 12' area.


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## splinter164 (Jan 31, 2013)

Running dust collector ducts and electrical conduit under the slab is relatively cheap to do in new construction and easy to cap off if you find you aren't using it.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

I have no idea what climate you are in or how old you are but cement floor get very cold and hard on old feet/legs so I would suggest a cushioning floor of some kind if temperature and age are a factor in your case.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

The typical T5 High Output design like the F54T5/841/HO/ALTO by Phillips, 46" long, 25,000hr life at 3hr per start, and 35,000 hr life at 12 hr per start, provides 5000 lumens initially, provides 4750 lumens design, with 85 CRI and 95% lumen maintenance.

That's 4750 lumens from 54 watts, or ~88 lumens per watt.

Very similar to the T8 at 3000 lumens per 32 watts.

The tubes do cost twice as much but it only takes half as many.

Still, LED will be replacing most florescent lights within a few years.

But, I'm 64 and building what will probably be my last shop. I'm going with T8 because they are the best value right now.

I would like to agree with the shop sink mentioned many times above. My new shop is detached and has no water connection but I'm putting in a small sink with a 5 gallon bucket with a spigot above it and a 5 gallon bucket to catch the drain below.

I built above ground level because of slope of site and very thin layer of soil before I hit solid rock. Just could not do concrete. Also, because it was -8 degrees F. But, I put the 8 ft long, 2×10 joists on 12" centers so I have a very solid wood floor. The floor is insulated too.

Very happy with the build so far.


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

I have a small shop but it suits me. It is a separate building and has a TOILET!. (and sink) That is very nice! I suggest that you put in plenty of outlets. Every where you plan for one, instead of a duplex outlet put in a fourplex.


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## darthford (Feb 17, 2013)

20×24 is not big enough imo go at least 24×24 and much bigger would be preferable. My builder quoted me about $30 a sqft for a shop with 12" ceilings.

1. Retractable ceiling electrical cords
2. Retractable ceiling air hose
3. 1/2 ton ceiling mounted electrical hoist (chain hoist is cheap but a pain)
4. Nice epoxy coating over the concrete to ease clean up.
5. Bright as the sun shop lights, I have 5 shop lights in a 3 car garage and could use 1-2 more. Each holds 6 T8 bulbs with a 'daylight' rating. They are awesome!
6. Flat and smooth concrete I think mine drops 4-5 inches in 20 feet I don't see the need for that kind of slope.
7. Thicker concrete if you have 5 ton CNC machines in mind (evil grin)
8. At least one 10 foot door, 12' ceilings.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*darthford*, #4 is what I wish I had as it does make clean up a lot easier.
I worked in a building where the machine shop had an epoxy floor and they re-coated it about every 10 to 15 years and that floor took a lot of abuse.


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

Don and some others mentioned windows higher up and I Don't have much to add to what's been said except that what I recall of the consensus of the theft deterrent threads was to emphasize that. No windows at ground level and all of them higher up. Still gives enough natural light, but doesn't give thieves an easy view. That along with the automatic flood lights already mentioned.

Also Bob's solar shop heater is a good idea but since you're in a warm climate you may want to look if you can combine that with some sort of passive cooling. Just placing the building in the right place and orienting it in the right direction can have a big impact as can shade trees. Local contractors might have ideas that work.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Loys of great suggestions already and you appear to be doing things right. I'll ad a few things that I love about my shop:

The dust collector and big compressor are OUTSIDE the shop
I have a big sink with hot and cold water
My shop is heated with a recycled central air furnace that was free (no ductwork, it just sits in the corner with a small footprint)

See my shop tour for video if you are interested.


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

Wow! Way too many posts for me to read through so I will just stick to the basics.
If your garage has an outside wall or walls, get it insulated and the ceiling. I had a contractor do the insulation when he replaced the siding on our 1983 year model house. Then We insulated the ceiling with R38 blown in insulation. A new energy efficient overhead door and a split system air conditioner w/heat pump has made my wooodworking life much more comfortable. I can work out there any time day or night regardless if it is hot or cold.

Good luck. Your garage is much bigger than my one car garage. :-(

Mike


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## MalcolmLaurel (Dec 15, 2013)

Good thread, I'm getting ready to build my shop this spring. Currently my shop is a 2 car garage, but that's shared with woodworking, metalworking, and car repairs (or would be, if there was enough room to get cars in there). Grease and sawdust don't mix! My plan is to build a dedicated wood shop behind the garage, the full width of the 2 car garage and 12' back.

I'm planning a built in bench the full width of the back wall, with the radial arm saw in the middle of it (RAS is more useful to me, I don't own a table saw). In addition, I'm going to put windows (or perhaps even doors) at each end of the bench so I can rip l-o-o-n-g pieces. Elevated wood floor over a crawlspace (I can't afford to do a slab), insulated, lots of ceiling electric. I'll have to move the service entrance to the back of the new shop, so there will be a new 200A main panel there; the existing main panel in the garage will become a sub panel.

BTW somebody mentioned PVC for air lines a ways back. Bad idea, it can only take a limited number of pressure cycles, then it explodes into shrapnel. I used HDPE for mine.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

I'm still wiring my 30×60. I'm dumping a lot of wire into it:


I've added three way and four way switches.


I'm adding a motion light to the interior.


I'm setting up two light banks, so if one goes out, the other will remain on.


My wall outlets play leap frog- circuit one, circuit two, then back to one again.


All outlets are labeled and may get painted (coded) later. For example, I have a bunch of outlets for lighting that are fed by 14 gauge. I want to insure they are used for lighting only. I may get some of the plastic, plug-in kiddie protectors for the receptacles that are not used, but they all say, clearly, "14-gauge," "light" and "switched." Others say "12 gauge" or "10 gauge."


I've added outdoor outlets (flush mount)


I'm putting the light sensor on the west wall and running back to the switch, since the north side is often shady in the winter and the sensors don't pick up the lights.


My high, exterior, motion activated lights are LED and do a great job of flooding the lower drive.


Someone brought up a good point about the height of outlets: Since my walls are not yet insulated and rocked, I'm moving all the outlets up to about bench height, except, of course, under windows.


I'm in the process of adding a few more over-kill (10 gauge) ceiling outlets and will install a few in the walls, as well.


I picked up the industrial rolls of aluminum from a restaurant supply and am installing it with a 1/2" air gap off the ceiling. Last summer, I noted the radiant heat effect from the roof and I did this once before and found it made a huge difference. The 1/2" gap is important, so that you can avoid conductivity with regard to the heat.


I'm adding blocking where I might want some heavy items installed on the wall, or might want things small enough they'd land between studs.


The the exterior is Tyveck covered, I saw minor light gaps at the bottoms. This will all be filled with caulk. Sealing air movement makes a HUGE difference in sound transfers.


I have a drain in the floor and can run my wet saw in a car bay, if need be, during the winter.


I picked up a used HVAC system. With six inch walls insulated and rocked, the place should be a breezed to heat. I'll just have to install a good filter system to address what the 1-1/2 and 3 hp collector don't grab. Hmm. Maybe this is a potential use for the old 5 micron bags I replaced on the 3 horse collector.

Insulating the concrete slab would have been a good idea. The slab makes heating the place a battle, but once it's up to steam, it acts like a flywheel. Clearly, isolating it from the rest of the cold world would be a good thing.


I may run a circuit just for a squirrel cage, or two, from an old heating system. In my other shop, a door open and two of these on allowed me to dust the neighborhood, uh, I mean clean the shop with a weed blower to deal with what the collectors can't grab.


Air lines for nailers


Because I have a bay I can pull a car into (the other is material storage), I'm installing an exterior outlet for battery chargers, engine heaters, a vacuum, task lighting or even a weed eater.


I'm installing an exterior air outlet so I can touch up tire pressure easily (a HF reel could be hidden inside and behind a 8" - 12" door (with gauge storage)), or just blow off a filter outside.


Before everything is sealed. I will plan for a small bathroom, with a deep sink (a must) in the corner of the shop.


At or near the area for the exterior air line and outlet, I plan to install a frost free hydrant to allow me to wash the car, or to bring water into the drain area for, as I said, wet tile or granite cutting and polishing work (variable speed angle grinder work).


I added a pull down attic ladder. The attic isn't designed for weight, so I beefed up all the press in plate joints, replaced the 2x that stopped the trusses from moving sidways and used a lot of deck screws in 3/4 sheet material, Then I installed some support walls for the future bath and to segregate the parking area. Those two areas can take weight. The rest has to be kept to a minimum. However, look into long metal strips tied to the bottoms of trusses for added strength. The metal will not stretch, so the bands (1/8" x 1-1/2" and the width of the shop) are the equivalent of doubling, or more, the depth of the trusses.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

The addition of a wood floor in my shop has made an incredible difference.

I also added T5 lighting but also kept a single T8 fixture in place along with a couple of old fashioned bulbs for site-specific lighting. Having different types of light (to include natural) that cuts across the spectrum is an improvement over just a single type and I'll ensure it stays that way.

The shop has a smaller propane-fueled heater as well. Not the most efficient (it's circa 1980 or so) but is wonderful. Keeping it on the lowest setting over Pilot has kept the cold edge out of the space over what has been a very cold winter. Oh, and the walls / ceiling are well insulated.


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## Whiskers (Nov 6, 2012)

Hmmm, well I picked up 1 thing from this thread. I am currently running conduit and outlets along two walls and just matched the height to the outlets on the wall with existing outlets. That puts the top of the outlets about 44" high. While there is wire within the conduit, fortunately I have not wired it on into the sources yet, so it will not be too much trouble to raise the boxes a few inches so 4×8 panels can fit under them. Just have a few little screw holes to fill and paint again.

Thanks for that suggestion guys, currently have no plans to store sheet goods against the wall, have a cart for that, but never know when I will need to lean something up temporarily.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

Whatever the size you have in mind *DOUBLE IT!* Trust me on this one, you will wish you had tripled it in five years. (Laughing)


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## darthford (Feb 17, 2013)

Extra strength roll of Tums antacid…when you get to the electrical isle and see the pricing for 20-30 amp receptacles pop 2-3. Alternatively smash your pinky with something to distract yourself.


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## OldWrangler (Jan 13, 2014)

Because my shop is only 24' x 24', I have a real problem with so many big tools. Two things I have done that helped me was to build a 4' x4' heavy work bench on casters so it can be moved around. On each side is a tool I can get to by just revolving the bench. On it I have my Jointer, my Router table, my miter saw and a bench grinder with stone and wire brush. Every tool has its cord running through a hole in the center and plugged into a power strip that goes to a wall socket.
The other thing I did was to put my air compressor in the garage with the hose through a hole in the wall separating the garage and the shop. This really cuts down on the compressor noise and frees up a space for a wood rack.
The rest of the shop is taken up with a Table Saw, Band saw, 6" x 48" Horizontal Sander, two heavy work benches and a table for my two lathes. There is also a 1" x 30" vertical Sander with a leather strop instead of a sanding belt and a grinder with polishing wheels on both ends. It is pretty crowded especially considering on my bad days I have to work from my med. scooter. Fortunately my Parkinsons is only a problem 1-2 days a week and the other days I can move around OK and work sitting on a stool.


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

Tons of great info! Don't know where you live but make sure you have adequate insulation, heat and cooling. Here in SE TN, we had single digit temps- the garage-turned-into-shop was 40 degrees. I looked into a heavy duty heater from Northern Tools but…$200 and 240 volts. Didn't want to spend that $$$ and have to run a line which would be a PITB due to the floor plan of the house. Let us know what you come up with. I would suggest you check on the sheetrock requirement just to be on the safe side. Contractors don't always know what is required. Speaking from experience.
BTW, If I win the $1MM lifetime income, I'll come back and read this thread again.


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

This topic has been great to follow and brought up quite a few questions that I have about wiring for all of the 2 car-garage shops. If you were adding a dedicated sub-panel to power your 1-man hobbyist shop in your garage, and you don't anticipate running more than 2 tools at a time (1 tool + dust collector), how many:


Amps would you want at your sub-panel (60A - 100A?)
Dedicated 110V 20A circuits would you add
Dedicated 220V circuits would you add
For 220V, would you wire for 20A or 30A?
What type of 220V NEMA receptacle is most commonly used on stationary single phase equipment (it looks like NEMA 6-20)?


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## agallant (Jul 1, 2010)

Guys this has been great. There are some good ideas. Here is what I have come up with so far:
Spoke with contractor walls will have to be drywall
80A subpanel to feed the garage
2X240V outlets on the back wall (to run tools but when I resell I am sure owners of electric cars will appreciate it
Outlets on the walls 48" to the bottom of the box, alternating on two 20A breakers
Two switched outlets in the celling for fans
six switched outlets in the ceiling for T5 lights
Epoxy floor coating with comfort mats in front of the bench and saw
Like my current shop everything will be on wheels
Dedicated outlet for DC and compressor
The walks and ceiling will be insulated
plumbing for slop sink and drain
The plan includes a side door so I will have that in addition to the big door
I currently have a retractable air hose and electric cord which will be moving with me

As for the size we are building in a community and I can't make it any bigger. 20X24 is a big improvement over my 16X18 shop. I have made it work where I am for years so the extra size will be nice. I have not really decided on what to do with heating and cooling. The heat does not bother me and the fans will help if it does it is just the winters that suck. I may have a gas line run in there for a dedicated gas heater


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## kayakzkh (Jan 13, 2014)

Attic fan, with a thermostat control, and a manual override switch to turn it off during the winter.

Add an additional couple more 240 circuits for possible later tools (like maybe a 240V table saw)

2 foot concrete knee wall, then an 8 foot stud wall on top of that, for a total ceiling height of 10 ft.

I bumped my outlets up to 50" above the floor, just to leave a little more wiggle room.

I'd go with a 100A sub-panel, buy once/cry once


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