# PLEDGE the problems with



## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

Hi

I hope that some out there have an answer for my problem. ..........PLEDGE. The furniture polish in a spray can that every one seems to love, including my significant other. Personally I have banned it from my home and anything I do for any one else, I put a disclaimer on my product, that in the event they use pledge, the the warrenty on the finish is null and void.

It's a great polish but, everyu single piece of furniture that I have stripped and tried to re-finish….&^%[email protected]#%$3, I curse it. Fish eye every where. In an open grainwood like oak, ash etc…......if I know pledge has been used I wont even bother trying. yes, scuff it, soak it with mineral spirits, lacquer thinner, take it down to the raw wood….............FISH EYE every where.

Does any one have a solution to this? I've tried eveything in my arsenol to no avail. tried scuffing and putting ayrlic water based paint…....it fish eyes, water based acryilic urathane…..fish eye, shellac…..fish eye,....varnish…....fish eye

How do you get, what ever chemical compound thats in Pledge, out and off the wood?.............I assume its silicone that is causing the problem?

Thanks you in advance


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## MarkE (Feb 26, 2008)

Have you tried any of the citrus based cleaners? Just a thought.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

yes…............nothing stops the fish eye


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## MarkE (Feb 26, 2008)

BOOM!

http://web1.msue.msu.edu/imp/mod02/01500448.html


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## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

How about a drastic approach? A propane torch and then re-sanding? That should burn everything out.


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## Tangle (Jul 21, 2007)

How about a sign, " I don't re-finish furniture!!!!"


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## boboswin (May 23, 2007)

Roman I pulled the MSDS on Pledge and it contains 1-5 parts silicone in mineral oil etc..
That's a finishers nightmare.
The mineral oil will wick it right down into the wood wherever the surface is exposed.

Bob


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## DaveBaker (Feb 17, 2008)

roman,
sounds like silicon is the problem. I have had this same problem with Automotive finishes when Armor All is used. Go to an automotive paint dealer, I think they will have a solvent to get rid of it.

It is a royal pain the the ardvark.

Dave


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## rikkor (Oct 17, 2007)

It is the silicone. Works great on plexiglas windshields. I wouldn't use it on something valuable like a guitar.


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## motthunter (Dec 31, 2007)

pledge is furniture poison.

If the wood was finished correctly the first time, it would not have soaked in… If not.. good luck. You may need to use a silicone remover first… hard to say..


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## Al_Killian (Feb 15, 2008)

From what I have seen, washing it with a "GOOD" degreaser will remove it. Then from there I will strip the furniture down to bare. Wash with TSP then let it dry. After this I will use a sealer and then onto the stain or other finish. So far I have not had anyproblem with fish eye's showing up.


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## RyanShervill (Dec 18, 2007)

Agreed with the above. The silicone is your nemesis, Two easy solutions: Silicone remover from an auto paint supplier as stated above, or give a can of non-chloronated brake cleaner (Crappy tire) a shot. It seems to remove all traces of oil and silicone, costs about 5 bucks a can, eveaporates almost instantly and will not affect the wood whatsoever. It's used to clean brake rotors of the greasy/oily/silicone laden fingerprints of the mechanics after beiing installed. It's one of those wonder chemicals that I've made a stock item in my shop. Also works great to remove oil stains from fabric/upholstery 

Ryan


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## TheKiltedWoodworker (Dec 21, 2006)

Are you trying to do a topcoat finish, like a lacquer or a straight poly?

What if you tried using an oil-based finish that didn't give a top coat, like a few thinner coats of BLO/thinner/poly (satin)? It isn't a finish that sits on top of the wood, so it wouldn't really give the opportunity for the fish eyes to pop out…


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## Pretzel (Feb 23, 2008)

Can also use straight naptha, it has worked well for me in the past


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## scottb (Jul 21, 2006)

Silicone… that would explain why a little overspray on the floor is deadly for stockinged feet! (or for someone who unknowingly had their stairs "cleaned and dusted" with it.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

Well, I thank each and everyone for their input. Seems like "silicone" is the consesus on the problem.

Not all lacquers are chemically compatable with each other, not are all lacquer thinners are compatable with all lacquers, I suppose the chemists must do their majic to keep all employed.

For info only. This particular piece of furniture is mine, made for me, by me,....... soooo. It was stained, and lacquered with enough coats of lacquer (+ one) to make absolutly sure that it was finished right the first time, to seal ALL the wood …..........I never cheap out on coats required to "cover" the wood. That said, I want to sell it and the knotty pine looks "dated". I knew that my other half used pledge but regardless this rather nice armoir has to go…..............so I thought I would paint the whole thing black, be it paint, glaze, tint, NGR and then take the black off all the corners/edges leaving a small 1/16" line of natural wood and I digress…..whatever but small tests of various methods showed otherwise…..........fish eye.

I copied and pasted the ideas above, into a file on "finsihing". Tomorrow I can use (and thank you) the idea of the "automotive paint shops" because they are most likely the same folk who run into the same problems and in all likelyhood, they just might have a chemical solution to the chemical problem.

I did try today, with reasonably good success, of sanding and scuffing the living &%$#@ out of the armoir, washing it down with lacquer thinners and wiping it down immediatly with dry, clean rags and, let it dry. Followed by spraying it with acrylic outdoor (watered down 50%) latex paint…......dry…..top coat with indoor water based poly acrylic varnsih. I stress 'limited" success because all it really takes is one single stinking &^%$#@&% "fish eye" to ruin it.

I think the automotive finishing industry and the furniture finishing industry are similar in many ways thus my tendency to hope they might have an answer

Once again…................thank you for the ideas, if there are more then bring them on


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## naperville (Jan 28, 2008)

Well, there is always paint…


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

Even paint…..........goes "fish eye" when applied to silicone residue


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

Naptha…........thanks, another one that slipped by my fading memory. I've had succss with it too in the past.

It worked on an antigue wooden boat where the hull had to be painted but the oil from 50+ years of inboard motor prevented adhesion. One guy sprayed a heavy coat of Naptha, the next guy follwed slightly behind. The naptha pushed away the oil, long enough for the paint to bond.


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## Samyer (Sep 26, 2007)

roman

It is in fact the silicone in Pledge that is causing your problem. You have a couple options. I would first try getting as much of the silicone up & out of the surface by wiping it down with either mineral spirits or naptha using a clean cloth. Let that dry and do it again with a different clean cloth. Do this several times, each time with a new clean cloth. The idea is to try to wick up as much of the silicone as you can. When you are done, now I would recommend sealing the surface with white dewaxed shellac. Let that dry and then do whatever finish layers, etc. that you want on top of that.


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## Chiefk (Jan 28, 2008)

I recently took a two day finishing class taught by Bob Flexner. He surpirsed my by highly recommending using Lemon Pledge on our woodworking projects. One of his Myths in wood finishing is that "Silicone oil in furniture polishes softens, or in some other way damages, cured finishes. He says the Fact is that Silicone oil is inert, and doesn't react with finishes in any way. Silicone's bad reputation originated with refinishers who don't like the stuff because of the problems it causes in refinishing. He provided four ways to deal with silicone oil that has penetrated into the wood. (1) Remove the silicone oil from the wood by washing the wood with mineeral spirits, naphtha. He says this method is only partially effective. (2) Seal the Silicone in the wood by spraying on a coat of thinned dewaxed shellac. He cautions that the shellac must be sprayed as the brushing may drag some of oil into the shellac which will reduce the surface tension and cause the next coat to fish-eye. (3) If you have fish-eye or know the wood has silicone oil you can coat over by spraying a number of very light coats of lacquer, and then dissolved the coats together with a heavier coat. This will work only with nitrocellulose lacquer. The trick is to build a thinckness of lacquer without wetting the surface, then applying a coat wet enought to fuse them together, but not so wet it causes fish eye to come through. (4) Lower the surface tension of your finish by adding silicone oil to you finish to bring it inline with the surface of the wood, so the finish flows out evenly. It must be added to each additional coat and can be sprayed or brushed. Silicone oil is sold under several trade names, Fish-eye Destroyer, Fish-eye Flo Out, Sil Flo and Olde Smoothie. I hope you find this helpful. chiefk


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

so what IS the recommended cleaning process?
(I know we've had this conversation before…. but I forget what everyone said)


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

Chiefk.

just to be the devils advocate.

Why would anyone highly recommend using lemon pledge on furniture knowing the grief it causes when re-finishing the same piece?

Thanks for the information.


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## PJL (Mar 4, 2008)

Years ago I worked in a refinishing shop. Our solution was to spray several dry coats of lacquer. The first coat was so dry it almost looked like over spray. After drying over night, we would cautiously spray a few more moderaly 'wet" coats. Allow to dry a few days; lightly wet sand, and apply the top coats.


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## Chiefk (Jan 28, 2008)

Roman, I'm sorry I can't really speak for Mr Flexner on why he recommends Pledge. It was my understanding that he believes that if the wood is properly sealed then the silicone shouldn't seep into the wood pores. The seminar was over two full days and we covered a lot of information. But I do recall he thought Pledge was an excellent product. Perhaps he gives a better explanation in his book "Understanding Wood Finishing." You may be able to find a copy in your local library. chiefk


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## croessler (Jun 22, 2007)

Thanks for the post. I'll be keeping this in mind…


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

this is what I "did", not what I would "do" if the problem comes again.

Used mineral spirits and watched for "fish eye"........instantly showed up.

washed down the unit with mineral spirits and wiped with clean rags…......repeat.

scuffed everything with 320, wiped with spirits and clean dry rags…......repeat

painted with acrylic black paint….......scuffed out fish eye spots…....repeat

sprayed with water based acrylic poly urathane….........scuff, repeat.

99% of the surface was "fish eye" free…..........spot sprayed

done

looks good after rubbing out the edges to bring light lines of natural wood against the black


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