# Don't ya hate it when....?



## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

So, as I'm sitting at my work desk yesterday, slaving away at the 'real' job, an email comes in from my website.

A lady contacted me and asked the following:

Can you quote us on the following requirement for Cutting boards?

1000 per year, 400 pcs at a time
Hard maple
23"x14"x3" 
8 lb
liquid groove all around one side
used for cutting
reversal food safe
radius corners
branding available

Funny thing is that I actually started doing the math to see if I could do it!

I had to turn her down….and now I'm sad


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I'm still trying to get past the math of 1,000 per year, 400 at a time.


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

1000 divided by 400=....wait

If I do 400 at a time and she wants 1000 per year then…..wait

So, if she wants 1000 per year, 400 at a time then….wait

ah, never mind


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## vikingcape (Jan 3, 2013)

If we all pull our off cuts together…...... You're probably right


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## McLeanVA (Dec 30, 2008)

That's pretty funny math indeed.

400 boards alone sounds like a nightmare no matter how you look at it. You'd be full tilt, no sleep, parts breaking, fed up by the second month.

Good for you for turning it down. Stay small and enjoy what you do every day.


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

Yes, as tempting as it was for the $$$, I would have turned a hobby into a stressful job. No thanks, already have one of those.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

Being a greedy American Capitalist, I probably would have taken it. I would somewhat hate myself for it, but I would have taken it.


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

I'm sure there's a Canadian vs American joke there somewhere Monte but I just can't put my finger on it )

Trust me, I was tempted but it would have consumed me.


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## reedwood (Jan 27, 2011)

My first thought when I read this was: I would have said sure if the price is right. then find someone to do it 20% cheaper and do the paperwork.

still.. what a big job! tons of returns or damaged pieces to deal with, shipping, dust galore, more space needed, different specialty tools, definitely a CNC router, approving the multiple designs, dealing with the one hundred that didn't sell, overhead reassessed, new hires with their set of issues,

and time away from doing what your doing now - what you want to do. Nice to have offers just the same.


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## 489tad (Feb 26, 2010)

How many years?


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

I didn't ask Dan…it would have been a slippery slope.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

With all of the board makers here I bet you could have divvy it up and got it done with a nice profit for everyone


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

now you're just making me feel bad Randy )


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## casual1carpenter (Aug 16, 2011)

Am I having a brain fart? If hard maple is listed at 3.6 lbs bd ft. and the target board is rough 6 bd ft, that math is even better.


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## DaddyZ (Jan 28, 2010)

Sorry Guys it sounds like a scam request to me…


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

All the contact info was in the email Pat.

It's from a high end kitchen supplier.


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## mporter (May 5, 2011)

Heck, send them my way! That sounds right up my alley- if the money is right.


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

$20/board for a referral? )


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## BArnold (May 20, 2013)

I get email similar to that occasionally and have learned to ignore them. While it might sound appealing initially, further examination will easily rule them out. You can usually put these things into the "If it sounds too good to be true…" category.


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

That or "if it sounds like I'll be shackled to my bench for eternity doing the same thing over and over, I may as well keep working"


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

To do 1000 boards a year would be 4 a day, 5 days a week. The accommodate returns and the like, you would need to make 23 a week for the first year. The extra 3 a week would have to be equated into the per piece price. You would require a shop (and storage) of about 2,000 sq. ft., 4 routers, 8 bits, 12" jointer, 15" or 20" planer (both with spiral cutters), a good table saw (with 4 good blades and an extra motor), 4 gallons of glue, 6 gallons of oil, a heat gun and the lumber (20% more than the bd ft of the finished product - for the first shipment of least a 100. This would get you started.


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

If I had the space and equipment, I would do this in a minute - would have 2 employees working on them 30 hours a week. Labor costs as well, part of the overhead.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

CasualCarpenter makes another good observation that I just thought about myself.

I did a little Googling and figuring, and a hard maple board of that size would have to weigh well over 20 lbs.


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

I just emailed her to see what she says about the "8 lb" thing…..stay tuned!


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

Well, I don't know where she got the weight of that size of a board from but she says "that's the weight"


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

"There is a correction to my original information. The board is 1" thick not 3"

Am I the only one who would hesitate making a board 1" thick? Cupping? Warping


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

Are these end grain boards or standard grain?


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## mporter (May 5, 2011)

Ok, so since you are not going to do it you have to divulge how much was the commission for? My curiosity is killing me!


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

My first response to her was no way in hell, nicely put, of course. So, sorry to say, no talk of pricing…yet


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

1" is not thick enough. At least 1-1/2". Just asking for returns.


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

my thoughts exactly Monte…I'm trying to do a deal with her….curse you and your American capitalism!


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## Kryptic (Nov 8, 2013)

Michigan Maple…..call, get a quote, re-sell and make a profit doing almost nothing


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

ya lost me Kryptic…


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

I'm not saying to take it, but a more definitive offer might change your mind.

My guess is that assuming that it's a real offer, they are going to want a deal you can't afford to give.


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

Well, seeing how busy I am right now and well through Christmas, I certainly won't be doing them on the cheap. If I do them they're going to pay what I think they're worth.


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## casual1carpenter (Aug 16, 2011)

Don, ask her also for a visual reference. what she wants and the level of work involved might be real doable. But a real contract with scheduled payments and penalties is in order (keeps everybody happy and friendly).


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

I honestly don't think this is going to happen but we'll see.

I'll post back when/if I hear from her.


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## Kryptic (Nov 8, 2013)

outsourcing

u buy cheap

and sell high

every cabinet maker thinks they can be all things to all people when in reality they cant, because their ego gets in the way of profit and thereby …. price themselves out of the market, when in reality most cabinet shops out source their doors because some people specialize in a market "neche" where one cant compete while maintaining a profit….

I could go on forever


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## Kryptic (Nov 8, 2013)

suffice to say it doesnt matter if its a drawer, dove tailed, or a butcher block, sometimes if the folks that specialize in a specific aspect of the trade, and buy tractor trailer loads of timber, even train loads of it, thusly having purchase power rendering my guess to be that we have to recognize whether we can compete and accept where we cannot. This is not to say that if one happened to fall upon a few hundred board feet of gifted wood from some long lost dead relative, where one couldn't make a buck, selling a blocks at 400 per purchase, 1000 per year and my guess is that the purchaser doesn't know piss from paint : )

have I lost you yet again ?


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## Kryptic (Nov 8, 2013)

FYI

you do nice work

it shouldnt be free


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## UncannyValleyWoods (Apr 18, 2013)

Hell, send her my contact info. I've got all the time in the world.

[email protected]


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

Don't be telling Degoose !! he could do that easy !! and have 200 spare !! I think


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Dbray45, I like your idea. Hire McDonalds employees for 30 hours per week at minimum wage and you would become cutting board king AND a national hero/savior. You could also get them signed up for Obamacare…oh wait, that's not happening yet.


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

Kryptic - my guess is that the person who contacted me has absolutely no idea how much work and effort goes into making a butcher block, cutting board or anything that's crafted, for that matter. When, and if, I tell her how much I will likely charge her per board, I don't think I will hear back from her because she is expecting to be able to get me to make them cheaply so she can sell them at a much higher dollar value. She works for a high end kitchen supply store.

She is looking for someone to mass produce Maple cutting boards on the cheap. Boos boards roll off the assemble line at $95.00 for this size board so I'm thinking she wants it cheaper than that…who knows


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

Here's the deal - figure out the overhead - electric, tool maintenance, 1.5 people and theirs costs, the wood - less 15-20% loss, the finishes, glue - all of it. 10% return, shipping (including returns). Take this annual # and divide by $1,000 - that is your cost base - you cannot go under that amount per board or you lose money. If the purchaser wants to pay less, don't take it because it will shut you down.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I agree 100% with the last two comments (#43 & 44).

When it comes down to price, it's almost impossible for a small shop to compete with a factory on an item that can be mass-produced. And let's face it… while a cutting board does require a lot of time and effort for an individual craftsman to produce, it's not the kind of item where being made by hand is so much more desirable than being factory-produced.

In the end, I seriously doubt you could give a price that would be both profitable for you, and acceptable to the customer.


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

You still have to negotiate - this way you know what the competition is really doing. Always give them the price, because you never know, they may just accept.


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## casual1carpenter (Aug 16, 2011)

As an intellectual exercise, I would ask how you would build this board. I imagine doing an approximate 6" by 15" by multiple of 24" glue up. One 24" glue up after resaw could yield five 1" thick blanks. 1000 cutting boards is but three a day if you do weekends also but it would monopolize you hobby time unless you thought like a production shop and were willing to put out for needed tooling.

So i guess I am asking if procedures and methods could be modified from the traditional one off approach to a more production approach to make this proposed cutting board venture profitable and doable in a part time one man shop??? The customer appears to be asking for only one size, one material, one shape board, just a lot of them. Who knows, you might even be able to get her to front the venture capital if you asking price is attractive enough, and get her to commit to a minimum order per year.


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

Well….after the initial rush of emails from her, it's been quiet since the 8th so I think it's fair to say that she has disappeared.

Assuming that she has no idea what she is looking for, she came up with an idea of reselling cutting boards to customers or some retail stores. My guess would have been that edge grain boards would have been good enough for her. Hard to tell though.

In any event, there has been no response so I'll have to rely on the other mountain of projects I have to keep me busy for a while


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

If she's specifying the weight, it sounds like she's just copying what she was sent from someone else doing the calculations that probably doesn't know which end of a table saw to start cutting from.


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

Whoever she is, she hasn't replied to any more of my emails so this is a closed book now I think.


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## PineChopper (May 21, 2012)

I'm with you Monte. I would have taken it. 
Just in case it could be a scam, I would get a deposit up front to cover material costs.


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## DonOtt (Jul 10, 2009)

I'm thinking more of someone on a fishing expedition with no idea of what she was looking for.

Her initial 18" x 24" x 3" and 8 lbs was insane. When I questioned her, it was suddenly 1" thick but there's no way I'd make a board 1" thick.

A couple more questions and she flew away. Probably someone trying to make a name in a company for themselves by bringing in extra revenue but had no idea where to go when the questions came….meh!


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## casual1carpenter (Aug 16, 2011)

I guess she would have ran faster if you asked for 30% on order for initial material acquisition, 30% on fabrication start covering additional materials, consumables, energy costs and other overheads, 30% on completion of fabrication to help with unaccounted costs including some labor, 10% profit - covers assurances etc payable after a specified number of days.


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## darthford (Feb 17, 2013)

Subcontract the order out to China (ducks flying tools)


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## REO (Sep 20, 2012)

It should be easy to outscource blanks and finish machine them. The returns would come out of the suppliers pocket. three a day must be for glue up time I am guessing. a small glue wheel or an rf unit would pay off in short order. cnc for?


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