# why don't more router tables use self squaring fence



## TheSerpenteer (Sep 21, 2008)

Looking at upgrading my router table from a benchtop that I've outgrown quickly to a nice standing table. I've narrowed it down to the Kreg table and the Pinnacle/Woodpecker table. The Pinnacle table has a little more work surface, but isn't reinforced underneath, which leads to bowing concern, and it has a more traditional fence.

The Kreg table is steel reinforced underneath and has what I think is a super feature in the self squaring fence. I'm leaning toward the Kreg, would there be any cons to that self squaring fence that I'm not aware of. It makes me wonder why it isn't a feature found elsewhere.


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## Julian (Sep 30, 2008)

You don't need the fence to be square to anything with a router table. You could have one side fixed on a pivot and it would work just as well.


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## miles125 (Jun 8, 2007)

Build you a table!


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## SEE (Sep 23, 2009)

Ditto on building your own table. It's a fun project and if well planned, you can get all of the features that you want for considerably less money.

Julian is correct, no need to worry about the fence being square to the table with a router table. There's only one place that matters, the distance from the bit to the fence. Seems that it took me forever to get that to make sense in my head!


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## davidpettinger (Aug 21, 2009)

Try routing with a pin and bearing bit only and see what they mean about the fence.


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## lowdrive (Mar 11, 2009)

You might want to check the Kreg again. I was pretty high on that one from what I had read and watched on the videos. But, Woodcraft had one on display, and my eyeball said it wasn't square. I happened to have a tape measure in my pocket to check it with. It was not square. I tried changing it a couple of times and it was not squaring up on it's own. From that point on, I figured that if I would need to measure each end to make it square, I would look at the fence system with the ruler on both ends.


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## sh2005 (Jul 16, 2009)

By squareness, I am guessing you are talking about the fence being squared to the table top, miter slot or the edge of the router plate. In table saw, the fence squaring matters because the fence has to be parallel to blade and that's quite a bit of distance. Typically, it's about 7 inches when the bladed raised to its maximum height. So, essentially, there are two reference points when checking the distance of the fence from the blade : the front end and back end of the saw blade.

In the case of a router table, there is really one reference point: the router bit. To be more precise: the axis of rotation of the bit. As long as the fence is straight, the only critical dimension you need to take into consideration is the distance between the bit and the fence.

Kreg tables are nice, but they are not cheap either. As others have mentioned, you can build your own table for less, without really sacrificing anything. If you like Kreg's fence system, you can add it to the table. But, if cost is not an issue and you want a ready-made table, the Kreg table will be a good choice.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

There is at least one scenario where the router table fence needs to be 90-degrees square to the table top.

That would be when you are using a vertical panel-raiser.

Seems it would also be a good idea if you are routing a groove in the edge of a board.

If I had space in my shop, I would have a Kreg. Their stuff is top drawer.


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## interpim (Dec 6, 2008)

I think a lot of people here are getting two different thoughts twisted here at once and I am getting confused, so I am sure there are others as well.

one thought being square to the table as in perpendicular to the table edge. And the other as square to the table face, or the L shape between the table top and the router fence.

The L shape between the top and fence is the only one in any situation that matters. The table edge in relation to the fence or bit is relative. All router bits can be approached from any side and they will still cut the same profile regardless. The fence on a router table is used as a guide and as some people have mentioned isn't always necessary considering pins are used with bearing bits by lots of folks.


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## BTKS (Nov 30, 2008)

Self squaring fence sounds like a sales gimmick to me. Don't know what one is but sounds like I don't need it. I do however, really like Kreg products in general. As stated above, they are top drawer. Just my .02, BTKS


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## JSOvens (Nov 12, 2013)

Taking a look at this Kreg router table, I believe there is actually one plus to having the self-squaring fence. Without this feature, the positioning guide, or ruler on the side would be useless.

Thus, this feature only has a use if you want to make use of the ruler on the side, otherwise as many have said, there is no need to have a fence square to the table edge.


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## Bobmedic (Sep 24, 2010)

Self squaring to the miter slot comes in handy when routing end grain like in cope and stick . If you don't have it you can use a sled or a known square backer board to push the material through safely.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

why don't more router tables use self squaring fence

Because it is pretty meaningless on a router table.


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## TheSerpenteer (Sep 21, 2008)

Lol. Alot of activity on a 4 year old post. For the record, I ended up with the Pinnacle top and steel base and I love it. I have since boxed it in, added drawers, and dust collection, with a lift. 
One of the buys that I got right the first time. I will add, I actually feel like there is use for a self squaring fence. It's just not necessary.


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## ThumbHammer (Sep 25, 2014)

I was considering a Kreg router table just this past week. I saw it priced at $499 and I could get 20% off if I acted before Saturday. The video on the Kreg router table goes into great detail about their self squaring fence. After thinking about the product I decided to wait and look around a little more before taking the plunge. On Ebay I saw many router tables with and without stands for reasonable prices. Rockler also has a similar table at the same price as Kreg except it does not have the fancy fence. But what what it does have that Kreg does not is a router lift mechanism that lets you easily raise and lower the router for bit changes and cutter settings. I don't like to part with my money so quickly so I'm still exploring (my wife calls it shopping) other possibilities.


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## DrTebi (Jun 16, 2009)

I have the Kreg router table, and also thought the self squaring fence was a nice feature.

Well, it isn't. Because it does not self-square. It does in theory, but not in practice. Only if you very carefully move the fence holding it by it's center, it may somewhat stay square. This also means that the scale is absolutely meaningless, because if it doesn't move parallel, the scale will be off.

If this wasn't bad enough, I later also realized that the fence (the aluminum extrusion) was not 100% square. Last but not least, I had a lot of trouble to keep the insert plate flat.

About a year ago or so, I decided to replace it, and bought a Jessem Mast-R-Lift Excel. No more insert plate, and a great router lift. I kept the Kreg base, which is really strong and stable. I had to tap some holes into the Jessem table top to fit the two together, but it worked out really well.

I then built my own fence. I also thought that a perfectly parallel moving fence would be great… and build this feature into my fence. It's a huge linear stage that is mounted on it's own platform; the actual fence is connected to the linear stage. So once the platform is locked down, I can move the fence pefectly parallel by one inch.

But now after hearing all the comments about whether you need a parallel moving fence, you may wonder why one would want that feature at all, and if this was all worth it. Well, it was: Let's say you need to route e.g. a slot with some exact dimensions, e.g. 7/8", but don't have a 7/8" bit. I simply use my 1/2" bit, set the platform to the starting point, make my first cut, then move the fence (using the linear positioner) by 3/8" and make the second cut (1/2 + 3/8 = 7/8). With the linear positioner it couldn't be easier to get that exact width.

But wait, why did I need the parallel movement? I didn't really. All I did need was to have the fence move in the center, by an exact amount. And that's what my setup beautifully does.

This setup is not 100% perfect, since I have limited spacing between fence and router bit, and the linear positioner only moves by 1". But for all situations when it does fit, it's works like a dream


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## rvicelli (Jan 12, 2011)

This thread has been around along time. 
DrTebi: Sorry to hear about your bad experience with your Kreg fence. I have had my for a good 5-7 years or for however long then have had this product out with great success. When I did experience issues I found the it was caused by me (Now there is a surprise) not setting the proper height on the screw down (Left) Side support piece. This would allow the fence to drag on the table excessively and throwing out of square. Since I have everything adjusted correctly I find the fence stays square to the miter slot without issue.

So why square to the miter slot? Well I think is has many advantages, One is using a miter gauge in the slot for coping - no sled required. Or when that cut needs to be 1/32 deeper - Just 0 the scale then move fence back 1/32 and done. I find I am using the scale all the time.

I think I find it like using a digital height gauge on a router - Is it needed - NO - But I sure do enjoy having it 
All in all I am pleased with the fence.


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## DrTebi (Jun 16, 2009)

Hi Rob,

I am glad you're happy with your Kreg router table. Maybe I just got a lemon. It wasn't my fault when I had problems with it, I know that-after I had taken the fence off the table and dismounted it somewhat, I checked the aluminum extrusion (the blue one), and it was definitely out of square. Of course, it was way too late for a return; nevertheless, I am happy with the base… and my own router fence was not only a great exercise, but it has proven to be very accurate and a joy to use.

I am also very happy with the Jessem top and lift. One thing I really like is, that I can adjust the router bit height at any time, no matter if a sled is on top of the table or something else, the side-mounted adjustment makes this really easy. It moves the bit up or down by exactly 1/16" per revolution.

Just my two cents… everyone will find their own perfect solution!


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## bkseitz (Oct 24, 2014)

Other have suggested building your own. I had considered all your listed plus the Bench Dog Metal Top and Cabinet. The problems I saw with these was either price or missing features. Liked the metal top, but it didn't have a fence I liked. Liked the fence but couldn't use a router lift on the table it came with. end result, I've been building my own the combination of features I wanted.

A lot of the parts I've gotten from Woodpecker SuperFence w/micro adjuster and soon to purchase coping sled the router lift and t-tracks I got from Rockler. The table itself is two MDF panels (2'x'4') I glued together. Once I build the rolling cabinet (which provides the other half of dust collection) I'll be complete.

I'd suggest searching Lumberjocks, there are a lot of great ideas others have come up with that will likely fit closer to how you work


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## 716 (Nov 22, 2015)

> There is at least one scenario where the router table fence needs to be 90-degrees square to the table top.
> 
> That would be when you are using a vertical panel-raiser.
> 
> ...


There is zero advantage of having the fence parallel to the slot in both cases you mentioned.


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## 716 (Nov 22, 2015)

> You don t need the fence to be square to anything with a router table. You could have one side fixed on a pivot and it would work just as well.
> 
> - Julian


Sure you do. If you use the miter slots for anything you need to make sure they are parallel to the fence, otherwise the material just won't slide along the fence. One example would be making groves on end of rails for raised panels.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

> There is at least one scenario where the router table fence needs to be 90-degrees square to the table top.
> 
> That would be when you are using a vertical panel-raiser.





> There is zero advantage of having the fence parallel to the slot in both cases you mentioned.
> 
> - 716


There is a difference between square (90 degrees) and parallel. A vertical panel raiser needs a fence that is 90 degrees to the table to ensure that the tongue on the panel is square. If it isn't, the panel won't fit correctly in the rail and style grooves.


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

I have a Kreg benchtop router table. The only way that the fence would need to be square or parallel to the front of the top would be if you are using featherboards. You would have to have equal pressure on all the fingers of the feather board. Or put the FBs at an angle, with the fingers equidistant from the fence.


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## 716 (Nov 22, 2015)

> There is a difference between square (90 degrees) and parallel. A vertical panel raiser needs a fence that is 90 degrees to the table to ensure that the tongue on the panel is square. If it isn t, the panel won t fit correctly in the rail and style grooves.
> - TheDane


OK, thanks for the clarification. It just did not occur to me that anyone would question that the fence must be square to the table. It must be in all cases not just two you mentioned. Otherwise you would not be able to accurately set the distance from the bit to the fence.


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## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

*Try routing with a pin and bearing bit only and see what they mean about the fence.*

What Union said… Basic geometry…


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> If you use the miter slots for anything you need to make sure they are parallel to the fence, otherwise the material just won t slide along the fence. One example would be making groves on end of rails for raised panels.
> - 716


I'm having a hard time visualizing this… why would you be using the miter slot for that application?

Cheers,
Brad

PS: I agree with Julian's comment - a fence that pivots on one end is just as good as any, and there are many router table designs out there that do just that.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

I have a coping sled that rides in the miter track.

If the fence is not parallel to the track, the coped pieces come out out of whack. You can argue that the sled design is at fault, but if the fence is squared up and parallel to the track, it does a great job.


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## AZWoody (Jan 18, 2015)

> I have a coping sled that rides in the miter track.
> 
> If the fence is not parallel to the track, the coped pieces come out out of whack. You can argue that the sled design is at fault, but if the fence is squared up and parallel to the track, it does a great job.
> 
> - TheDane


If you have a sled, you don't have some kind of stop block or way to gauge how much to cut? You wouldn't really need any kind of fence so long as you have a good clamp on your sled to hold the stock in place.

Even if you use the fence to reference length, it only needs to be at the correct length at the beginning and can tail away and the stock should still be in place on the sled.


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## Karamba (Nov 2, 2015)

> If you use the miter slots for anything you need to make sure they are parallel to the fence, otherwise the material just won t slide along the fence. One example would be making groves on end of rails for raised panels.
> - 716
> 
> I m having a hard time visualizing this… why would you be using the miter slot for that application?
> ...


I guess just like the guy below. He still does not use the fence because he is just a photo model and probably does not know that rail groves should be identical to the stile grooves. Ball bearings could mitigate this but not always.


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## Karamba (Nov 2, 2015)

> I have a coping sled that rides in the miter track.
> 
> If the fence is not parallel to the track, the coped pieces come out out of whack. You can argue that the sled design is at fault, but if the fence is squared up and parallel to the track, it does a great job.
> 
> ...


Now you are suggesting to reset the fence every time you cut the same grove on the long side and on the end grain, right ?


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## Mork (Oct 20, 2010)

I clamp a small block of wood to the fence before the bit and use it to set the depth of cut. If the fence is a little out of square it doesn't mater.


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## Mork (Oct 20, 2010)

I clamp a small block of wood to the fence before the bit and use it to set the depth of cut. If the fence is a little out of square it doesn't mater.


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## Carloz (Oct 12, 2016)

You would have very hard time aligning the fence to your router bit.


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