# Staining bare maple cabinets



## SweetTea (Aug 5, 2016)

I have never been fully satisfied with the stain results on maple. I will have a new set of maple cabinets to stain soon, and the customer wants a dark expresso color. Nothing that I can find at Shermin Williams seems to cover good nor does it absorb evenly. Should I be using a sanding sealer prior to applying the stain? I think that is the problem that I always have with getting the stain to absorb evenly.

Next, where can I find a stain in an expresso color? If the stain that I go with doesn't come out quiet an expresso color, should I order up some transtint dye and mix a shellec or lacquer based finish that I could spray on to bring the color closer to the customers preference?


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## Underdog (Oct 29, 2012)

I've never had good luck staining maple either. It's always blotchy because the side grain won't take stain, and the end grain takes it too well.

I've heard that sealing it prior to staining works, but I've not been able to make that work. I just smear it around on top of the sealer…

You might have better luck mixing a color with the top coat.


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## martyoc (Nov 21, 2015)

I've had pretty good results using water based dyes on maple than oil based stains. They can be reapplied to smooth out blotchy coats without difficulty. You can also modify the color somewhat if you don't like the initial results.


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## Carloz (Oct 12, 2016)

You can:
1. Use a spray gun and apply many very thin layers. That way dye penetrates very little and more uniformly.
2. Use an intermediiate coat of some material that accept staining. Charles Niels stuff comes to mind.


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## Kirk650 (May 8, 2016)

I recently built a large Blamket Chest in Hard Maple. A bad choice of wood. It blotched terribly. My project was finally saved by using a blotch controller from Charles Neil. I think he calls it Pre-color Conditioner. I ran dozens of tests on scrap Maple to make sure it worked and to choose a color. My final choice was to use the Blotch controller as directions say, then a water based Transtint dye called Coffee Brown. Let it dry and then used a Dark Wine Cherry water based dye from JE Moser. (Note - the Coffee Brown was either Transtint or Moser. I forget, and am not walking to the workshop right now).

I can't see why this wouldn't work for you. I do suggest lots of testing prior to going 'live'.

I finished the chest in Waterlox. It looked terrific. We drove to Tennessee to deliver it, and the first thing their 3 year old did was climb on it and do a little dance - in shoes. Oh well…


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## RogerM (Oct 31, 2011)

Ditch the stain on maple. Analine dye is available in many different colors and enhances the grain in Maple effectively.









This is Mosers water based Medium Walnut dye on Maple.


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## RogerM (Oct 31, 2011)

Another example using the same dye noted above


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

I agree with RogerM about the aniline dye.

However, if you still want to stain maple or some other similar hardwoods that come out blotchy, you first have to seal the wood. What causes the blotchiness is the wavy grain. The end grain absorbs more stain than the flat grain. The best sealer is shellac thinned with alcohol to a watery consistency. This absorbs into the surface of the wood and stops the inconsistent absorbing of the stain. Shellac is best for this as it sands easily (it "chalks" and tends not to clog the sand paper) and is compatible with almost any stain, varnish, or paint applied over it.

Planeman


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## GR8HUNTER (Jun 13, 2016)

What does Charles say …...........


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## SweetTea (Aug 5, 2016)

Does the Charles Neil pre stain conditioner work as well or similar to using dewaxed shellec such as Zinnser's seal coat?

If you had a customer wanting a set of cabinets in a dark stain, almost an expresso color, what wood would be the most optimal? I would assume walnut, but it cost almost twice as much as maple in my area. Any other wood/stain or dye combo'a that you fellas might recommend?


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

Almost any clear finish like lacquer of varnish thinned way out to a watery consistency works. What is good about shellac is its ability not to clog your sand paper when you sand after the sealer is applied. Personally, I use raw hard shellac beads as it stores almost indefinitely in its hard form. and is cheaper. I just mix with alcohol and strain enough for a job at a time. The type I use still has remnants of the Lac bugs and some twig residue in it so you have to strain it well. I use a piece of women's panty hose for the strainer and fold up a sheet of paper for the funnel and clip off the tip. A wad of a piece of panty hose is inserted into the paper funnel hole. When finished, you can throw away the funnel and hose.

And I would think maple cabinets could be stained any dark color.Sometimes it takes more than one coat of stain to get what you are looking for. You would need to try a test piece to make sure before committing to the project.

Planeman

Planeman


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Folks I am in Pa, doing a finishing class, I will catch this up and respond Monday am, sorry for the delay


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## Kirk650 (May 8, 2016)

SweetTea, I finally got the results I was hoping for on the dyeing the Maple for the blanket chest, but it really was a struggle. I wouldn't have the mental toughness to do a bunch of cabinets. I'm not using Maple again - probably - at least not dyeing it the way I did. Maybe a sprayed on colored shellac or something like that would work. I have no history with using that, but some of the other guys seem to.

As for what other wood, I find Walnut to be easy to work with and to dye. And cherry isn't too bad, but blotch can be a problem. For the sake of speed and ease, I'd probably go with walnut and walnut faced plywood. As for color, I have a Transtint dye blend that I've been using for years. It's a dark walnut with just a touch of cherry. But, that's just me…


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## SweetTea (Aug 5, 2016)

> SweetTea, I finally got the results I was hoping for on the dyeing the Maple for the blanket chest, but it really was a struggle. I wouldn t have the mental toughness to do a bunch of cabinets. I m not using Maple again - probably - at least not dyeing it the way I did. Maybe a sprayed on colored shellac or something like that would work. I have no history with using that, but some of the other guys seem to.
> 
> As for what other wood, I find Walnut to be easy to work with and to dye. And cherry isn t too bad, but blotch can be a problem. For the sake of speed and ease, I d probably go with walnut and walnut faced plywood. As for color, I have a Transtint dye blend that I ve been using for years. It s a dark walnut with just a touch of cherry. But, that s just me…
> 
> - Kirk650


If I were to use shellec with some transtint dye mixed in as you suggest, would this be the first thing to spray on the cabinets and doors? Or would I still need to seal the maple first with either dewaxed shellec or Charles Neil's pre stain conditioner? Then shoot on my finish coats? I like to use water based poly as the finish, never used lacquer or oil based poly, but I am open to any and all suggestions! Sorry guys, I am a little bit foggy on the steps involved here..


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## SweetTea (Aug 5, 2016)

> Folks I am in Pa, doing a finishing class, I will catch this up and respond Monday am, sorry for the delay
> 
> - CharlesNeil


Hey Charles, nice to see the man himself replying to my thread!  what would you suggest in my quest of getting maple to take stain evenly?

Also, I could use some advice on how to achieve an expresso finish on some various woods such as cherry, maple, poplar, alder, etc. and could you tell me which of these woods would be the easiest in achieving an expresso color and how I can get them to that point?


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

Dark stain on maple? Travesty!


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## UncannyValleyWoods (Apr 18, 2013)

> Dark stain on maple? Travesty!
> 
> - dhazelton


This. So much this.


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## Sunstealer73 (Sep 2, 2012)

Lots of the higher end guitar makers do some beautiful stains on maple tops. I have a Hamer Monaco Elite that is absolutely gorgeous. They actually did a custom color for me. I think they use dye and then nitro lacquer on top.


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## Carloz (Oct 12, 2016)

> Ditch the stain on maple. Analine dye is available in many different colors and enhances the grain in Maple effectively.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But this is exactly what blotching is. With lighter colors like your it might look good with darker not so especially at the setting where you do not one overly busy surface.


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## kirkll (Nov 13, 2016)

If you want uniformity in your stain over maple you may try spraying it rather than hand application. Most cabinet shops do it this way.


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