# Overheard at the Craft Fair....



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Though I vowed never to get involved in woodworking as a business again, I entertain thoughts of perhaps doing the crafty thing as a soon-to-be-retired grandpa. There is an annual show here, and I believe it is across North America, called 'Scattered Seeds". It is a collection of approx 300 exhibiting artisans from several disciplines, textiles, leather, clay, handpainting, etc. and of course woodworking. Though I didn't intend to specifically get a feel for the state of affairs of wood crafting in today's market, I was able to draw quite a few conclusions.
First of all, it was pretty obvious what medium does well at these shows. The kiosks that were so crowded that people were elbowing each other were the photography and scrapbooking exhibitioners. Then, the handmade purse/pocketbook people, using fabrics, leather or yarn. Artisan jewelry next. Then, kids' custom clothing and fitted diaper things. Then, the kitchenwares, mostly ceramic and stuff. At the bottom of this list, regrettably, were the woodworkers! One man had pens, virtually every comment I heard was 'yuck, they're all too fat to hold comfortably'...Surprising! At a carver's booth, I heard one woman say 'If my husband made a mess like that on the floor, he'd be outside"... Then there was the boxmaker, with all sorts of nice finger-jointed boxes, exotic woods, people looked, but turned up their nose at the high (to them) price tags. The woodworkers booths were relatively empty of customers/browsers, compared to some of the other booths. So… maybe there was a woodworking event somewhere else in my area, or maybe I drew the wrong conclusions, but I'd likely be some discouraged by the general lackluster interest shown towards the woodworkers at this show.
I wouldn't expect anyone to divulge their secret hit product, but I wonder what's wrong with buyers' attitudes toward handmade woodenware. Is it over? I mean, has interest in artisan trinkets made of wood just faded into history? *What do you think about this?*


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

In my experience and observations, most people just do not have any appreciation of how much time goes into a piece of fine woodworking, so they are just not willing to pay a fair price.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

True enough, Charlie! I kind of get this. One man had a nice assortment of lathe turnings, one woman commented about why he didn't sand them smooth, looking at a nice vase with natural edges. But should I single-out woodworking? Any exhibitor that sold specialty food products had a table of samples. One woman had a line of various salsas, and one woman asked for a bag of the Ritz crackers that were provided for sampling her fare with!!! I woulda flew over the table and throttled her. I used to get people like that when I sold antiques….like when Avon bottles were collectible, I had a few, there was always someone stealing a dab behind the ears…set the bottle down, and leave. At a weekend flea market here, I visit this old man who sells used tools and machine-shop equipment. Some nub grabbed the nice old Arkansas stone off the table and started sharpening his own jackknife on it.. DRY! Wrecked it. But I digress…Maybe trying to peddle your wares to the disaffected crowds who are there to stuff their face or find cheap amusement is just not a good fit for me. I find it distressing, the whole scene.


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

I always mange to find the beer and firearms stands at those shows…if they happen to have one or both. If not then I walk around with the wife and smile a lot…until we leave. Unless someone shows up with some home made toolboxes…then I don't purchase one, I look it over closely enough to see if it is something I want to make. These days my wife snaps a photo or two with the phone and prints the photos out for me when we get home and they go into a projects file.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Kool, Abbott!! Actually, the guy who made those nice little keepsake boxes, instead of hinges or latches, he used rare-earth magnets to hold the tops on!! I'm going to do this now, yet feel guilty for glomming his idea, which probably wasn't his in the first place. Ditto on the wooden toolboxes, too!


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

Yeah, I have seen some really well made wooden tool boxes…the amount of time the guy who built them puts in must be huge. I think it takes somebody with some experience to realize the value and then the builder has to compete with the customer's own ability and time verse price points.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

My guess would be that the people who buy high end woodworking projects don't shop for them at craft shows. They buy at studios and galleries…..............but they do buy them.


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## North40 (Oct 17, 2007)

Hmmm … photos and scrapbooking - I've seen several plans recently for wooden photo albums books and scrapbooks. Maybe you could team up with a scrapbook person and let them do the selling, saving you the time and booth rental?


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

*Shipwright,* You're undoubtedly correct about target clientele…and perhaps it's wrong of me to entertain the thought of low-cost items to the unwashed masses at the typical craft show! Thanks for the insight, sir!


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## alanealane (Oct 1, 2007)

I think the buyers' view toward woodworking and furniture has been ruined by big chains like [email protected] and its associate company [email protected] Maybe even C0stco has something to do with it too…
When I've had the opportunity to build a piece for someone, the most common attitude I see is: 'Why should I pay you 3 or more times what I could get it for at the store?". Most folks don't realize that in addition to the almost universally superior materials used by woodworkers, our time spent on a project is not usually donated. Big companies can pay factory workers much less and get a marketable product that can be sold to people for what seems like a great deal. And it is, until the woodworker who depends on his/her shop for income tries to compete with those who sell to customers familiar with paying much less. It also seems that the people who do seek out the highest quality in crafted items (because they have the money for it) many times already have a working relationship with established woodworkers, thus making it hard for a 'new kid on the block' to begin a career at selling their pieces. Even people who have many years of experience at their craft tend to run into some trouble at shows like the one you were at.

I've been to several Charlotte Wood Expo events in the past years and the vendors there seem to do a little better, because they're not having to compete with vendors of unrelated crafts. It's ALL woodworking of some sort. And even then, it can be hard for potential customers to justify paying $400 to $500 for a gorgeous floor-standing Arts & Crafts lamp for example, when they can go to any big-box store and get a less fancy, fully functional lamp for a fraction of the cost. The reason I got into woodworking was to build for myself what I couldn't afford. It turns out that the investment in tools and time almost forces a person to try to generate some sort of income from their woodshop.

I hate to admit that there are Ikea bookshelves in my house because it was far cheaper to buy them and pay freight than it was to buy and process lumber or sheetgoods into similar items in my shop. The need for the shelves was immediate, and I didn't even have the time to build my own, so to Ikea we went…But as a woodworker, I was impressed at Ikea's relative quality and sturdiness. 
I've actually got some aromatic cedar milled and glued into panels for a bookshelf that's been in the works for a couple of years, but that's more for a fun project than a necessity. I'll either dawdle my way to completion, or I'll get in the right mood and blitz it.

That's my perception of the matter. Whether or not it's worth 2 cents is up to you!!


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

*Peter Oxley,*Yes, I understand the value of a 'front man'....so that I can stay in the background and be a shop-rat and let a more tolerant, patient person handle the retail end. those good intentions start out nicely, but tend to go downhill when a verbal agreement is the only tie that binds. It's a good idea, though, the wooden albums! I've made quite a few keepsake boxes for fam and friends. t is a popular item for scrapbooking and photos, instead of the old shoebox, but the brass details which I favor make the boxes an extravagance!


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

*alanealane*: Yes, you've certainly highlighted the buying attitudes of today's shopper! The [email protected] mentality is pervasive, and has weaned everybody away from the appreciation of fine workmanship and materials. I fully acknowledge that those of us who have high regard for quality are fast becoming extinct. The world's a-changing! I just heard on a radio talk show, that watchmakers are becoming obsolete! Nobody at the age of 40 or younger wears a watch, because they get the time from their cell phone! Nobody wants to wear a timepiece anymore unless it is for the bling factor alone! That's probably going to tank my thoughts about making some casework for Grandfather clocks, or chunky desk clocks, again because nobody will want them. Now… if I could just think of a product made with cheezy vinyl woodgrain over cheep particle board… I get some market share then, I'll bet!!


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

I have three impressions of the weekend shows from this past year. People are only going to make a casual spur-of-moment purchase at a price under $40 in my area. To be over $40, it has to be something they really need. Lastly, to buy over $40, they need to have gone there with the specific item in mind.

People at a weekend event, unless a high end art show, are not impressed by fine woodworking. They are looking for functionality or are thinking gift. The high end shows around me are $700+ for 10' by 10' space and are more of a method to take special orders for fine woodworking.

And then you have to think about the logic of someone spending $150 to $250 or more where the vendor isn't local or that they don't have any knowledge of their reputation. You are also asking them to buy off the shelf with material that you selected. This can work at a market that is held weekly and the people see your work and think about it over a week or two. I have a friend that has had a $125 music box on display more as an example as it hasn't sold in a year, but it has driven at least one special order of special size and wood type.

Lastly, in my area everyone seems to be downsizing and unless the "box" or other woodworking item has a purpose they cannot rationalize or figure out how to show it. Boxes for jewelry are an exception. If it can go in the garden, then that is another exception, but it isn't fine woodworking. A number of woodworkers I know who used to do tables at weekend markets have stopped or moved on to less expensive chests for quilts and stuff.

Steve.


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## paulcoyne (Nov 9, 2009)

See this was a problem I had a year ago people dont see value in something handmade… you have to be able to talk well about what you are selling believe in what you are selling but also sell what are prices that are achievveable for the customers at the event you are at, as times were hard last year as well as this year everythin on my stand was either €20 or less and that was a large reason why I had the most profitable fairs in years. 
Another way I have delt with the problem is making modern pieces of mostly wooden jewellery which can be seen here link , as jewellery is such a big market I decided why not incorporate my woodworking skills to a new direction and the results are great and the response has been amazing having just being featured in a fashion show and preparations are going full steam ahead for xmas.
The main thing is not to see situations negatively adapt to situations and make a new market for you and your product and work hard at it….


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Alanealane - there was also a neat post running a few days back on why we are so quick to complain about China/Ikea when we are trying to sell the 'added value' or our craft, yet we don't pony up the cash on our end and buy tools from harbor Freight.
Question was, how we can be mad at people for deciding what value we offer over a mass produced China product, while at the same time dont use the same arguments for our own purchases…a true Powermantic tablesaw will outlast a Ryobi, or 'Chicago Electric'. the PM has better fit and finsh, will last for generations, you kids can inherit it ….on and on…..Sounds like the same reasons we ask for more money than Ikea for our crafts. Heirloom quality, better matials, drawers that slide right…..
Thread at
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/21529


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

"The main thing is not to see situations negatively adapt to situations and make a new market for you and your product and work hard at it…."

Paul's comment is right on. While it may be frustrating to wait, you need to listen to the market place continually and adjust to what is being sold or what is missing that you can make. In last years depths it seemed the jewelry booths did a lot better than anyone else. Last year or two have made many people in my area stop eating out, with cutting boards selling well. Trying to compete with six other making the same thing is a prescription for ruin. You need to have something unique or that makes yours more desireable than the others.

Steve.


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

Good point Alanealane,

Material cost has gotten to the point where things I need for my personal use cost less then the material I would need to make the item. If it's not something fun to make, that I want to make, then I have found that its much easier to go purchase the item then it is to build it myself. Right now I am considering building about 14 feet of 6 foot tall bookcases to hold my library which is now held in knockdown bookcases from the general merchandise store. I haven't done a cost breakdown yet as I am just entertaining the thought of such a costly project, I am sure the cost of the materials will not be pretty. Not to mention the time and shop space I will need to dedicate to the project…damn…I might be talking myself out of building the bookcases as I post this. ~shrug~


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## Maveric777 (Dec 23, 2009)

I think Steve hit the nail on the head. I think displaying a highly figured fine piece of wood work selling for $100 (or even less) and up at a craft fair or function like that is like parking a Jag in a Hyundai sales lot. I purposely went to some events like this locally just to see for myself. I figured I had a wood shop and why not make some extra cash selling some goods. I was really discouraged with what I found.

There was a guy who made "Nice" custom turkey calls. He had a broad and beautiful collection ranging $80 to $150. Right next to him was a guy who cut small crosses. He drilled a small hole in the top, poorly finished, rough, and tied a ribbon around it to hang from a rear view mirror. He had a whopping $5 price tag on it. Care to guess who was selling like hot cakes?

Long story short I learned you need to put your product in front of the clientele whom most likely will purchase it. Craft fares are not the place to sell a high end jewelery box, a Maloof style chair, etc…

To be honest this is just my personal experience. I could be way off…


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## Gregn (Mar 26, 2010)

Our society has become has become a Microwave society of fast and cheap with no appreciation of time and craftsmanship. So unless you target a specif need or item your really being fed to the wolves sort of speak. Thats why woodworking is for my pleasure and contentment as a hobby. While I make items for gifts for friends and family, I discourage people who want me to build something for them for profit. It is soon after I shoot them a price do they realize the cost and buy the cheap stuff. Thats not to say that I haven't sold a couple of items, but only to someone who I knew appreciated the work that I do. I see woodworkers sitting by the roadside stands selling their wares. Many of which say that people think their stuff is to high and as a result sell very little. Most tell me that they would rather be in the shop, but need to supplement their income. So unless there is a change in the trend of things I don't see it changing much.


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## tnwood (Dec 13, 2009)

There is no value on quality in the US at this time. People will spend more money on a status symbol that will impress their friends and neighbors but not on a quality good that only they will use. It is a matter of priorities today. And the priority is "ME" and how I am perceived. If I have a lot of "BLING" for my friends and acquaintances to see then I am famous for one second but I don't care about quality of items that are not viewed by the public. Then we complain that the Chinese are stealing our jobs. They are stealing our jobs because they produce something of low quality that works once or twice for a low price and can then be discarded to buy something other cheap item and that is all we care about. People want variety more than substance.

Sorry for the rant but our society is so two-faced these days I get tired of it.

However, the points made about selling in the right environment are absolutely correct. I have seen woodworkers set up at a local craft fair and totally waste their time and efforts. But if they show the same goods at a juried, high end event, they do fairly well.


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## alanealane (Oct 1, 2007)

This has probably been said on countless other forums, so please don't let the following hijack this topic, but I must express what's on my woefully small mind…LOL

@tnwood, DITTO.

@Abbott, I know how you feel pardner!

@Dave Nesting, I'm guilty of buying from Harbor Freight, and what I've found is that, aside from their decent hand tools like wrenches and screwdrivers, the quality doesn't match up to the "name" brands Delta/DeWalt/Porter-Cable/Powermatic/Bosch/Festool/etc.

@ Everyone else who has tough eyes, a lot of patience, and plenty of time on their hands,
From the woodworker's perspective of purchases based on price as opposed to quality: 
I have a big HF router mounted in a table, and I can't even use a panel raiser bit or a long straight bit because of its bad spindle runout. It was out of warranty by the time I got to use it. There is vibration when any heavy bit is in the chuck. My 3HP Freud router is smooth as silk, but I don't know where that one was manufactured. It doesn't matter because I bought it used. Using my Grizzly random orbit sander is like trying to tame a bucking bronco, but my Porter-Cable does what I want. *BEFORE I CONTINUE, I WANT TO MAKE CLEAR THAT I HAVE NO INTENTION OF STARTING AN ARGUMENT, SO FOR EVERYONE READING THIS, PLEASE DON'T GO THERE…*









I know that workers hired to make tools China & Taiwan factories (even Germany and Italy for that matter…) need jobs too, and I am not one of those who reject a foreign-made product just because it's not made here in the US. However, I'd like to support my local neighbors as they try to put food on the table.

So after a recent investigation into what companies make what tools in the US, I found that only the new Delta Unisaw and PM66 saw are made here. Correct me if I'm wrong. Even then the Unisaw is assembled in Tennessee out of some imported parts…and I have no idea about the Powermatic. I had intended to save up some cash for a new Unisaw, a PM 14" bandsaw, and a PM2800 drill press, thinking that they were all going to support peoples jobs here, but the bandsaw and DP are imported too.

Now, I'd still like to buy the new Uni, but the bandsaw and drill press have given me reason to pause. They may perform above and beyond any ''affordable'' HF tool, but they probably don't support many people here, other than the retailer and the company executives. Jet makes a 12" jointer/planer that looks cool, and although it's an import, there aren't any US-made tools that offer the same function. Again, correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe I'll get one someday.

Right now, I'm lurking on craigslist hoping to find an older machine that was made here, merely in hoping to save money on a well-built tool, not in being snobbish.

*Back to the main topic:*
I've always dreamed of marketing custom-built electric instruments (don't let the signature fool you; but I do know how to build them). In my location [Michigan…can I get a O-U-C-H], people not only don't have jobs, but even when they did, they always tried to get something for nothing. Many would rather drive out of town to a big grocery store just to save 3 cents on bananas instead of buying them locally. Some of my friends have this mentality, and it's sad to see.

Maybe one day someone somewhere would want to pay what I'd consider a very reasonable $1000 to $2000 for a custom instrument that would really last. They'd even get to pick the design and wood for a truly custom job. Just don't ask me to paint over a piece of quilted maple!!


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

The fact is you *can't* compete with mass production. The fact is a lot of it is surprisingly good quality and the cost difference is in the method of production. What mass production can't do by definition is produce *unique* pieces. What we have to do to find a market is stop trying to compete with these guys and build the things that the few, yes rich, people who can still afford to see fine woodworking as "art" can't find anywhere else.


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## Lochlainn1066 (Oct 18, 2010)

My experiences match all of yours. The one booth selling well made wooden items sits unbrowsed, while acres of booths selling cheap junk or outright imported junk make money hand over fist.

It's almost enough to make me despair, but then I find events like a local arts fest I attended. There were only about 10-15 booths, but all of them were ARTISTS, displaying their own work. Some of them were doing quite well. I sold 2 pieces there. One boy there, in junior high, was doing origami. He had hundreds of them and was making more on site. Sold them for 1 or 2 dollars. He made close to $100, IIRC. Artists were also the ones doing the buying.

So maybe we're not finding the right market.


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## mmh (Mar 17, 2008)

Unfortunately, most of middle class America are more familiar with Wa!!mART than real Art. Very few have been to a museum of art or an art gallery, as their interests are more geared to the latest episode of reality TV and can tell you who won the last popularity contest singing or dancing but have no idea who Degas or Cezanne' are or that El Grecko is not the GEICO gecko. Even contemporary artists such as Wendell Castle have no point of reference in their lives as there's no top 40 list to download from.

We are surrounded by a world that markets cheap sensationalism and little of this includes real art or anything that resembles craftsmanship. The best way to fight this is to raise the next generation to understand what "handmade with care" really means. Take them to a craft show or museum or art gallery and show them what handcrafted and one-of-a-kind mean. Show them that solid wood is not solid pressboard and why antiques made from solid wood will last a century longer than the Ik3a or Wa!!mArt stuff.

I had a co-worker who prided herself in DIY projects. One weekend she decided to refinish her dining room table, a 4ft round pedestal style. She got herself a sander and supplies to refinish the table and started putting some elbow grease into the project to sand down the top layer of wood. To her demise, the layer of wood soon turned into chips of glued wood pressed together. She had sanded off the veneer down to the pressboard. Had she gone to the antique store she could have bought herself a solid wood piece some 80 yrs. old in need of TLC instead of a piece of compostable composite and had something that would last another 80 yrs. to give to her children and their children in years to come.


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## BobTheFish (May 31, 2011)

I've read a bit about some of this. The points made about our disposable culture are spot on, but it's not something that happened overnight. Most of it is the result of the industrialization that happened during the beginning of the 20th century when machines started being put into use to create goods that were cheaper (yet of lesser quality) than handmade goods. As time went on, by the 30's and 40's, machine made goods were on par with handmade, and then the combination of worldwide depressions and WWII hit. The lack of goods, first due to the inability to buy goods, and then from the raw materials being diverted to war efforts (which, BTW, all of today's modern marvels are a result of the scientific efforts of the war: cell phones, internet, computing, remote controls, atomic energy… and the infrastructure build up before: hydroelectric dams, the highway system, new electrical grids… all from FDR's programs), had caused a bit of a desire for material posessions.

Post war, there was great wealth saved and earned during the war, and the materials that were stockpiled for the war were now readily available, and with a glut of free time, consumerism became the new "hobby" of the masses. Mass media was starting to be born, and with it, immediate information on the latest trends. People would go out and buy the latest "things" and we enjoyed very much our newest technologies, (anyone else remember the futurism on the 40's and 50's? Robot maids, flying cars, the Jetsons? Just watch some of the old cartoons:















).

Little did we know the eventual costs.

By the 80's, we were addicted and completely enslaved by our newfound materialism, and became a bit manic about it. The seeds of dissent started to be noticed however, as we became aware of the environmental costs (remember the environmental themes in both horror and superhero movies back then? Captain America fought to save a politician that pushed for an environmental policy, The Toxic Avenger, zombie movies where the dead came back to life due to some horrific chemical goo… Captain America).

During the late 80's and early 90's, you started to see dystopian futures where our reliance on money and greed became central point, and technology was often the means by which greed and control were maintained (look at all the cyberpunk films like Johnny Mnemonic and others). You also had musical movements such as punk (actually from years earlier) and grunge take central stage with their anti-establishment message…

Now it's this decade's turn, and we're still primarily entrenched in the cycle of greed and dependence upon cheap factory and slave labor made goods. This STILL has not changed. Only the movement has changed, and perhaps has become more palatable, working with our consumerist habits, rather than against. Buying local (but still buying rather than not buying at all), or buying green (and the subsequent greenwashing), and buying handmade (rather than making), are all points of trying to change what we buy, but still points to us being primarily addicted to the act of consumption.

It's trendy now to make things and sell them. Even our pop culture and sub culture (the biggest example of this to me is the rise of steampunk, which is totally DIY wrapped up in an idealistic retro-futurism) is about the handmade movement. But it doesn't change the fact that we're addicted to buying, and that in order to ensure our purchasing power, we try to conserve our dollars and that often means undercutting the craftsman.

You want people to care about your products, and to recognize quality, it means having to change the public from addicted consumers into people who actually do appreciate things that last… And after nearly 100 years of consumerism in the making, I just don't see that happening any time soon.

BTW, I create because I NEED to create. I used to write, I do jewelry work, I make books, I woodwork, I cook, I create. I don't give a flying f*** about the consumer, because, quite frankly, I don't want to sell something to just anyone. I'd rather make something and GIVE it to someone, knowing that they enjoy it, they use it, and they appreciate it.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

I have to agree about the overall consumerism.
But I still wonder about poopiekat's original post.

Why is woodcraft doing poorly.

In the instant gratification wal mart age - why are the Custom Clothing ($$$) booths and scrap booking busy, as well as fabric wallets? But Pens, keepsake boxes and such just sit on the shelves of the booth?


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

My experiance is this: I am the only woodworker/ vender at 95% of the times I go to sell. I go twice a month year round. I price my small cedar boxes and toys at what the local trafic will bear and make very little per hour at this HOBBY. The crafts and arts at these fairs include oil paintings and lots of bling. I sell more than most of the other vendors. People like wooden products but will not pay more than they would expect to spend at Walmart etc. I price my offerings accordingly. If I needed to make much of an income I would go back to working at a job..ugh!


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