# Need a little help finding a solution please



## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

I am about to insulate and dry wall my new shop I am using standard insulation for the walls and ceiling and 5/8" Type X fire rated sheet rock for sound and fire protection. I have determined I will need about 14,000 BTU's for heating and cooling does anyone have a good solution that wont break the bank? Its about 700 SF with 10' ceilings, detached building and I am looking for an inexpensive way to heat and cool the space.
Thanks


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

How do you feel about using a wood stove for heating? As a creator of wood scraps, I'd see that as one possible solution.


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## Belg1960 (Jan 3, 2010)

I would look into a split ac system, (http://www.residential.carrier.com/products/ductfree/highwall_cml/ravseries.shtml) there very efficient and totally programmable. As whats affordable thats for you to decide. I would invest money wisely and save over the long haul on the efficiency of the units. Also for the insulation look into the High density fiberglass, it will improve your wall insulation from 3.2 to as high as 4. Take the time to create an air seal with a layer of 3-4mil plastic sheeting which will really help with air penetration. Penny wise dollar foolish at this point.


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## wolflrv (Nov 28, 2011)

If you're not opposed to a window unit, there are some good solutions that have both A/C and heat in the same unit for around $500-700 that should handle 14k BTU. I currently have just a window A/C unit, but once it dies I plan to replace it with the combined unit. I insulated and walled my shop this summer and it has made a vast improvement on being able to work in a civilized environment!


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## getneds (Mar 18, 2009)

use a wood stove for heat. A/C….for what? if it's necessary I'd do the window thing too. But to keep costs down I would use a box fan in my face. With 10' ceilings you might want a ceiling fan pushing that air down.

Maybe heat this year because you'll lose a whole season if you don't. 
A/C next year if it's viable.

I can't wait to make decision like you are…..... Lucky Lucky ( or just plain old hard work)...lol


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

In a shop I used to have I bought a used propane furnace out of a double wide. Only cost me 100 bucks and worked great. Otherwise if it was me I'd consider the woodstove with a blower(no treated lumber) or a pellet stove. Just my $.02


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

here is the best choises in heaters i know

i have wood stove
(they are great 
if you have firewood available)
and a back-up gas heater
the vent free type are easy to instal
they just have a hole thru the wall
and a 'hubcap' outside
(and yes a ceiling fan or two)
but the ceiling gas hanger type is good too

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_heaters-stoves-fireplaces?cm_mmc=Housefile-_-3DAY1FGC_120511-_-STANDARD_consumer-_-NavLink2&[email protected]&state=NM&hotline=&market=

stay warm
happy holidays !


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## ryansworkshop (Dec 2, 2011)

Wood stove. No monthly bill

Proper location of vents and windows for cooling. Use air mover style fans. Possible old blower motors from forced air heaters.

Keeps your costs down.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

I have oil filled elec. radiators in my insulated shop. Safe, adjustable, use one or two depending on the temp.
I put in two celiing fans with wall mounted speed control. Here in Misissippi it doesn't get that cold so the rads work well. No glowing elements or flame to worry about. They were not expensive.
I thought about AC, but the dust concerned me. I just open the windows and turn on the fans.
Bill


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## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

I just had a guy come to give me a price on the insulation and sheet rock WOW! he wanted 4K to do it with one coat of primer. I politely said thanks but I can't afford that much. I estimated the material to be at about $800.00 right to the finished and painted walls and ceiling. I have to see what the Electrical panel is I have two cks at the maim one 80 AMP and one 50 AMP I hope the 80 AMP is going to the Shop now because I will not have to do more then change the panel out side. I was going to put in about 5 or 6 240VAC 30 AMP out lets and 10 120VAC 20AMP outlets but I am not sure what I am aloud to put in for a 50 or 80 AMP service panel. Then there is the HVAC or what ever I end up using. so thats another 30 AMPS.
It looks like I will be doing all the labor myself, the ACE hardware down the road rents a sheet rock hoist very reasonable $40 a day I think.
As for heat I may just go with a pellet stove and as I can afford it I will get an under window AC unit I should not need much in the way of AC.


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## ryansworkshop (Dec 2, 2011)

If you are going to burn wood, I'd steer away from pellets. They own you are far as price, delivery, supply.

Firewood is all around. I heat my home, shop, etc. with wood. Other than chain, oil, fuel and time, never paid a dime. I burn 6-7 cords per year. I mill another cord for here in the shop.

Oh yea, never run out of kindling either.


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## ryansworkshop (Dec 2, 2011)

One thought on combustion issues.

No matter what you have in terms of ignition, the wood stove is no more likely to ignite than the spark generated from any electric motor.

Worked 20+ years in the refineries. Saw two dead from blow ups. Always, the spark from a tool motor did the lighting up. Not the heat from units or smoke pens a few yards away.

Wood stoves are safe shop heat.


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## JamesVavra (Apr 27, 2009)

My workshop is a detached building with a small "man cave" upstairs. I put in a dual-zone, mini split heat pump system. I have something like 15,000 BTUs of heat and 12,000 of cooling in the shop and 11K/10K upstairs. I installed it myself and then had my AC guy pull a vaccuum and charge the lines. All together, it was around $1300, but a single zone unit would be a bit cheaper: http://www.grunaire.com/12000HR.html


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## doyoulikegumwood (Jun 21, 2007)

I know this may sound silly but what kind of heat do you have in your home. Only reason I ask is if it's boiler you could bury a run out to the shop. This is how My plumber friend often does it for his customers.


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## reggiek (Jun 12, 2009)

I'll second and third the recommendation for a wood burner. You can find them fairly cheap…also you can find used ones on Craigslist. It is a very economical way to heat - plus you create alot of nice fuel (I still have to buy some stovewood now and then….but worth it). As for A/C - I would go with the window unit….or they have small portable units.

If you want to go green - you can look into both passive or active solar units. I am testing a passive cooling system that DennisGrossen suggested - it also has a heating idea. Basically, you bury pipe in the ground and add a passive solar fan to push the cool air into your shop. I built a small one first to see if it would provide that much cool air…it did. Soon I will add a much bigger one to see the effects. I am also considering a passive solar heated water system to use for heat….basically it runs sun heated water through copper pipes in the floor of the shop.


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## GaryC (Dec 31, 2008)

google "barrel stove kit" I use a double in my shop.. 40×50 does the job…cheap


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## DaveP (May 6, 2008)

Do you need to heat the space 24/7? If you plan on storing wood, finishing supplies, glues or other items that don't like large temperature swings and/or excessive moisture swings, then you'll need a small heater to help maintain ambient temperature and humidity in the shop when you're not there.

A small ventless gas or electric heater would help maintain temperature, while the wood stove could be used to bring the building up to working conditions.

Since your shop is only 700 SF, I'd use a window mounted electric A/C unit to keep it cool.


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## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

well the house I just bought is all electric but it has a place to put a stove in the walk out basement and a fire place on the first floor. I am having the chimneys cleaned and inspected on the 20th and unfortunately I think at least one will need re-lining. I have not lived in the area for about 10 years but I think wood is a bit expensive $140 to $150 a cord and at 65 years young the last thing I want to do is cut and split firewood I would rather spend that time in the shop. 
I am thinking pellet stove in the basement and wood burning fire place insert for logs on the first floor. I talked to the power company about the bill history here and its been $600 a month in the winter months and $300 in the summer I need to get that bill down, the house is only 2400 SF and has 3 levels so I will cut in vents between floors as needed. even burning 1 or 2 bags per day can't cost that much, what would that be $100 per month?
So back to the shop I think I will have to go with something that will provide a stable environment 60 - 65 degrees while I am working and 55 - 60 degrees at night while I am not there. I have never installed a stove only burned a lot of wood in one about 15 years ago. 
Do they sell kits for the flue that I can run up the and out the roof? I sure don't want to burn out the development.

So many good ideas here thanks everyone I guess I just have to make a choice.

OH YEA, I still can't get over the guy giving me a quote for $640 per day for labor for him and a helper! I'm shocked!


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## pete57 (Jan 22, 2009)

My friend just fitted out a 20 X20 area in his big PA barn. It was getting cooler and we talked about heat for the space. He had the local propane people drop off a big tank and e installed a trailer heater. It came out of a flooded trailer. Nothing wrong with the heater, just all the duct work under the trailer. He spared no cost on insulation(My suggestion) and got the budget plan on the propane. It hardy uses fuel and keeps the place real toasty. The costly part, which was needed, was the humidifier to keep the air not to dry and it will take the dampness out of the air in the summer. I have that idea on the front burner!


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

Remember ventless creates humity.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Sandhill - I went with blandex / OSB for a long partition wall in my shop this fall, and it's a great solution. Put it up, prime, paint and done. Put anything, anywhere on the wall now. For a shop, that's a wonderful thing. Less intensive labor-wise than sheetrock.

For heat, did an LP room heater. When it's nice outside (50 degrees or more), it's set at PILOT only. I turn it up when I'm out there, down to keep shop from freezing when I'm not. Love it so far…


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

$640 per day for him and helper equals $40.00 p/hr(8 hr day). (is he paying his helper 40$,I doubt it) seems kind of high for sheet rock installation(depending on where you live) Why not do it yourself? May not go as fast as someone that does it all the time but it would save you a lot of money. Frankly it isn't that hard, my wife and I did a den and neither of us had done it before.
Use good dust masks,rent a screw gun and vacuum, do a little homework and you are in business. Obviously you will need some help installing but once it's up one man can finish it.


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## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

[email protected] I will be doing it myself and have done lots of it over the years, I am no longer able to do ceiling though 5/8" Type C is about 70 lbs per sheet and I have 10' ceilings. I will rent a hoist and I will have to work from the bottom up because its just me doing it. The guy that gave me the price said he gets "$48.00 an hour all day long". 
[email protected] What size tank do you use? I have to use fire code sheet rock because of our location and if you saw this place you would agree on the protection measures that need to be in place I think they are very reasonable in asking that. Its very wooded here to bad I cant cut down the trees LOL, not really.


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

Good for him. Question is, how much work does he actually have? Seems awfully high for this economy. I retired from the Pipefitters in 2003 and was making 42.50 then (fringes included) Drywallers there(Columbus Ohio) wasn't making near that much. Guess it's the area you're in.
Anyway good luck and enjoy your shop.


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

Heating a shop with a wood stove is a great solution - if there aren't any restrictions on burning wood. Around here, when they announce a "Spare The Air" day, smoke from a chimney can get you in deep doo-doo.


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## DBerryhill (Dec 23, 2011)

You can get a window or portable A/C that also has a heater:
http://www.compactappliance.com/

Get one that is bigger than you think you'll need since their BTUs tend to be overrated.


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