# What does Handmade mean to you?



## LepelstatCrafts (Jan 16, 2011)

Hi all,

I am going to open a monster can of worms with this question. What does handmade mean to you?

The reason I ask is that many websites where you can sell items have different classifications as to what handmade means. For instance, one site says that a laser cut wooden object is not handmade when a second site states that it is. Is a CNC router handmade if you design what is going to be routed? Is a precut project that you assemble handmade? Where is the line? What is your definition?

I look forward to hearing what everyone thinks!


----------



## ryno (May 14, 2008)

I personally wouldn't consider either of those hand "made". 
Before I "make" a project, I design it. So design and make are two different things to me. 
If I was assembling a chair that had the pieces precut, I don't think that entitles you to claim that you "made" it.


----------



## Hoosierwoodcraft (Jul 14, 2011)

To me, handmade items should be produced in a home-based workshop with a combination of hand tools and modern machinery to a small clientele base where the owner (not a board) dictate the style and the craftsmanship. I would use George Nakashima as an example of one who created hand made furniture in modern times. I would exclude Gustav Stickley who ran a factory, whose staff ran sandpaper over the final finish to make it appear hand made.


----------



## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

- A one-off is *usually* hand made.
- Power tools such as TS, router, planer, jointer are used in hand-made stuff, so why not CNC? 
- I would allow CNC for *some *parts *but not the whole*. 
- Oddly enough, I frown more on laser-cut than CNC in a hand-made product. 
- I also frown on those things that route spiral legs.

Its really difficult to find the line in the sand that makes something hand-made or not. Maybe it has to do with the skill required to run the machinery. If any ole idiot can do it, then its not hand-made, but if it requires skill to operate the machine, AND you are required to know something about the wood, then maybe it can be considered hand-made.

OK, let me step on a few toes here. How about dovetail jigs and a router, do they violate the hand-made rule? Or the conveyor driven drum sanders many of us use? Power fed Shapers? Or how about using jigs where you make many many of the same thing? What if I hand-make a nice wooden box and then take it to my manual milling machine and mill some interesting pattern on one side? The mill is NOT automated, it is controlled entirely by the hand cranks. To really nit-pick, *I could argue that using a smoothing plane is hand-work, whereas a grooving plane is not* since the fence accomodates and makes up for the lack of skill of the operator.

Can you determine based on the *tools *used, or is it the *time *it takes you? Maybe it has to do with the *consumption of electricity*, or *how many *of the same widgets you put out, or *how fast *you can put them out, or *how the tool bit was guided*.

Specifically targeting CNC since it seems to be the big taboo. What if you hand-crafted this very nice piece using only hand-tools(hand planes spokeshaves, a steak knife, and hand sanding, THEN you had a nice laser engraved name put on it? Now we're talking about *how much was done by hand*. Is ANY 'automated' work allowed? Maybe you do all the shaping and cutting with accepted hand tools but simply add precise hole patterns (used for assembly) using a CNC machine?

When building a homebuilt aircraft (see www.eaa.org), there's a thing called the 51% rule. If you do more than 51% of the work, you can claim yourself as the builder, or 'manufacturer', and register the plane as a homebuilt and it falls under the 'Experimental Aircraft' class. Can hand-built woodworking follow a similar rule, perhaps with a different percentage?

Fat chance nailing this Jello question to the wall.  All the above is my own thoughts and opinion, nothing else.


----------



## usnret (Jul 14, 2011)

If you put in the machine and then it does all the work for you it is not handmade. Machines would be like CNC and laser cutter. With a TS, bandsaw, jointer I still have to do work to shape the wood.


----------



## Greedo (Apr 18, 2010)

i agree with usnret, to me it is handmade when the tools or workpiece are operated by your hands.
but you need to draw a line somewhere in the fuzzy gray area, a planer or a shaper with an infeed roller work without any assistance. but to me those are exceptions as they perform only 1 simple mechanical task.
cnc is a step too far for me, you program a computer to operate a machine for you and do complex and multiple tasks.

but then most modern tools have electronics in them, so i would say it depends on whether the electronics are there to make the work more easy, or just to protect the tool and user. in the latter i think it's still handmade, not when the electronics assist you.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

I think a one off or off by wood on genrarly consideredat most but even then ifdesigned and caded by even some machine could be but then acustom of wood or combo of metal wood glass etc. could be for in sale of shops or amazon ordered as compared to etsy or other custom venue of choosing . Also duplicating duplicateres
might original to it or something else totaly new and only heard about tooling fabricated by custom only at request of reproducing many wood things in production settings and not hand planed by handed tools as such. Electonics and buckyballsLED lights would not.. even purchased at home depot or recycled from stuff at home or even found at home and fabricated by delivery of totalygreen craft items by hand or controlable electric planerlathes which arecontrolled soley by eyes andhands without marking by indutrial means of cottage industrys but only in artistic funtions following forms or fucntion flowing with the exclusiveness of the creativity of the original intentent of builder/sellerof origin before sale or delivry into markets or fairs adjusted for such things as long as the buyer is made aware of that fact . Other wize i would say no , unless results vary either by imply wood or duplicatedwood pictures ofwood placated from and or copied from other webb desing downloded to decieve custom from someone elses download copywrte to outrite steel the woodwork or even picture of it as it can be at handmade at any given with materials and sources.or machines by hand cranks and chisels are most best for that and that handmade only nice chisels …..or planes ....maybe block planes feelfreetoblockme planes also, but allmake individula choice with respect to respecting other handmadeor otherwise.


----------



## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

When I think of hand made I think of items that are one off pieces (made one at a time) made with hand and traditional power tools in a small shop. I suppose you might could say that perhaps at least 50% of the work would be done with hand tools. I personally would not consider the items made by laser engraving or cnc routing to be hand made items. However, I am not saying at all that these items are not quality items that people can't be proud of making or owning. Generally, even if the same two hand made items are the same design, and use the same patterns, these two items would show differences and to a certain extent the style or personality of the craftsman who made them. Naturally the more hand work in an item the more hand made it is. For example, a traditionally made woodcarving would be almost completely hand made.

These are pretty much my thoughts on this from the top of my head. I'm sure that everybody will have a different definition.


----------



## BobTheFish (May 31, 2011)

handmade- "primarily made with handtools".

I make allowance for cutting logs into boards, or boards to general size and shape with a tablesaw or its equivalent saw. Bandsaws and scrollsaws are questionable for my definition - sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Some tings I don't really classify as handmade by the nature of what they are. A wine bottle balancing board is basicaly a block of wood with a hole drilled into it. Not a handmade item.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Tootles (Jul 21, 2011)

What a question Mike. Where to draw the line?

For me, I'd say it is hand made if I have personally, with my own muscles, set up the tool and then moved either the tool or the wood. That definition allows me the use of either static or portable machine tools, where the machine simply turns the blade / cutting edge etc, but it pretty well excludes anything where the machine measures, controls and regulates the movement of the blade / cutting edge relative to the timber.

Now I realise that a planer "violates" the rules above, but it is worth saying that I'd consider it possible for an item to be described as handmade even if all processes are not done by hand - and planing is certainly one of those processes.

My definition could also allow the use of something such as a dovetail / box joint jig as it requires some skill to set up and use the jig (trust me, I watched someone else the other day, and if you don't know what you are doing you're still stuffed). I just wouldn't claim that the joint was handmade.

I'm sure some will disagree with at least some of what I have said, but for now, those are my thoughts.


----------



## tyskkvinna (Mar 23, 2010)

If anybody wants to say that anything CNC is not handmade, I encourage them to check in on the next couple of stages of my giant earth project blog. 

I work mostly in CNC and I've worked some in laser and my opinion is as such:

If you do a significant amount of work to the piece aside from the machine cutting it out, it's handmade. A laser cutter usually doesn't qualify (the beauty of laser is you can chuck in material, have it cut it out, and it should be "ready to go"). You certainly CAN make things with my CNC equipment that aren't handmade, but they also won't be sanded, finished, sealed, etc.

Last: I get this question hammered at me all the time due to the nature of what I make. I don't particularly care anymore if people think I'm a cheat or a hack because I don't carve exclusively with a chisel.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

This is a great topic. I've wondered, for example, how a fast food chain (Hardee's) can claim their breakfast biscuits are "homade". Nobody lives there!

For work to be handmade is to use too few words, first and foremost. But it would obviously imply 'not done in a factor setting / done by me and me alone', essentially. Everyone that builds is going to (rightfully) state their stuff is handmade, I think. But each will have understandings of what that means that differs from the person sitting next to them, saying the say thing.

To me, it means the work I did, using the tools I use. That's primarily hand tools, no router, spindle sander, CNC, etc. Table saw and RAS almost certainly, shaper maybe. Only a small portion of LJs would define that same way.


----------



## tyskkvinna (Mar 23, 2010)

-CessnaPilotBarry, I don't know if you've actually worked with CNC before but often the finishing (and prep) will take up significantly more time than the actual cutting and carving process. To me, saying "hand finished" is misleading because it indicates that it was the small, end step of something.

CNC is rarely a shortcut.


----------



## Gregn (Mar 26, 2010)

Your question seems to lean towards the commercial marketing aspect of the word handmade. The same is said with handcrafted, hand carved, custom made used as marketing keywords to catch the attention of the consumer. Thereby having a totally different meaning to the crafts person in describing their work.

For instance a scroll sawyer may describe their work as handcrafted, even though they will use a pattern and a machine to create their project. Yet because of the fact that they manipulate their work around the blade with their hands it is handmade by them.

A woodworker who uses both hand tools and power tools, might consider their work handmade due to the fact that their hands are on a piece through every step of the process in creating a project.

The purist will say unless its made with strictly hand tools it isn't hand made. So when describing my work to others I generally use words like I made, personally crafted, created personally. In describing a process I might say that I hand worked this piece with this hand tool or that hand tools. Whereas I might say I machined this piece with this tool or that.

So in the commercial sense of the phrase handmade for laser cut or CNC cut to me would not be handmade.


----------



## TimL (Oct 21, 2010)

I'll take the bait. A CNC is nothing more than a motor driven plunge router. I know I have lost about half of you by now, but why do the masses think handmade needs to be a 8 penny nail creation completed with nothing more than a sharp rock and lots of glue? 
And to answer the question. Handmade to me is me taking the raw materials and me using/operating tools to make a finished product.


----------



## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

I seem to be in the small minority here but I, personally, don't consider anything touched by a CNC to be handmade. I think it excludes that definition as soon as it touches the wood. By the contrary argument, the Space Shuttle is handmade. However, you can design something in CAD and execute it with a drawknife and sandpaper; I would still consider that handmade. So, it's clearly not the computer that defines my personal definition; it's the tools to shape the item. I have a hard time calling anything handmade unless a hand tool was involved. My definition allows the common non-automated hobby stuff. I guess you can have an autofeeder by my definition

No offense meant to CNC junkies (I want to be one). We all have our personal definition.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

So So So wrong . Cncs can be made from hand and then controlled by computers . If you believe otherwise then wood fabrication would be Virtual (fabricated) or else Fabricated (virtual ) and made by hand etherway.


----------



## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^I'll buy that argument, Moment. And I agree on principle. It's like asking 20 people what "green" means. Everyone will have a different opinion.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Thanks Bertha . If you have 20 pies for instance , how do you choose which pie to eat . Even if they arenot HM ( handmade ) you know that youare going to eat some pie !!


----------



## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

good morning folks…howdy al…....looks like a livley topic here….handmade huh..well i think that something handmade can be a wide range of answers here, as to what designed the object is one thing…but as to what actually makes it is another..if your from the old school, i dont think someone from the 1800's would consider a cnc as something that is creating something hand made..i think of hand tools , when i think of hand made…planes..chisels..saws.., that sort of thing…but..i dont have any experience with a cnc but, i do know that whatever is being made has to be designed by a person, bu then a machine cuts it all out …so…i have to say a resounding NO..on the cnc being something that creates hand made…the spectrum can be wide as to actually what does constitute handmade…to me ..in the purest sense..i would love something handmade that was done with all hand tools…no power tools at all…but iin reality..not everyone can do that, i know i cant..ive got body problems…verve problems..i cant chisel out a beautiful work of art say like mike pounders does…but i can create some beautiful handmade items, with the aid of power….well im just babbling now..ive made my point…...in fact i need to get out to the shop before this day is lost…i still have not had breakfast..or gotten out of bed…oh yea…its been one of those days…..gob smacked sucked into bed…...ya'll have a great day…grizz


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

So so so wrong , respectfly grizz , some has to use hand to type progame on cnc. They also can make with the playdough. Then let the playdough harden ( in the sun or micowave ) . Then use this model to to reproduce it with a router duplicater in wood ! Amazing but still HM . Then the wooden copy can be scaned by lazers and mass produced by cncs. The playdough model would be considered handmade. Would the woodenitem then be handmade.?...partly maybe . The vast copys made with the cnc are not, but the one copy produced by the cnc would be if made from the original playdough model…....

Ive never put playdough in micowave , so this may not be the thing to do , so im not recomending tht in any way and would personally stick with sun dried .


----------



## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I'm sorry that you are feeling bad today, *Grizz*.


----------



## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Totally agree, Moment. It doesn't at all detract from the desirability of the piece of the difficulty in design/construction. I would call those "artfully made", "original design", "expertly crafted", and especially in your example, "delicious"! I often construct artistic pictures using CAD, photoshop, etc. They're still "art" but not "handmade" as an oil or acrylic on canvas might be. All by my own personal definition, of course.

For examples in my own postings here:
1) shaker endtable, mostly hand tools = handmade
2) plane till, mostly powertools = barely handmade


----------



## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

In moments playdough example, the playdough scultpure= handmade in highest form. The modeling of said handmade project = a digitized map of the handmade object. The CNC copy = a duplicate of a pattern for a handmade object; definitely void of the original handmade properties. If you had sanded afterwards = hand-finished at best.


----------



## jtscira (Jul 2, 2011)

As a laser owner here I will say do not believe the hype. Lasers are a tricky thing to work with. Do not believe the manufacturers claims of one touch printing. All materials engrave differently and even the same woods engrave differently on the same piece depending on the grain consistency. 
I have yet to have a job that you slap in your material push a button and put the finished item in a box to ship it. Do not believe places like Laserbits on the markup you can make by selling their products. (I know by experience)
A laser is like any tool, experience is the key.

Edit - to answer the question on handmade. Anything that uses electrical power becomes not hand made. You have to use all hand powered tools to claim the handmade stamp IMHO.


----------



## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^I tend toward Anthony's definition.


----------



## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

*Anthony*, I for one am not knocking lasers. I've been looking at lasers for a long time and if I could afford one I would get one. I have seen some beautiful things come off lasers in person. I am also sure there must be a good sized learning curve to use them successfully. Nevertheless, I still don't think that most people would call something that came off a cnc laser a hand made item. However, if you made a beautiful dovetailed jewelry box, for example, and before you assembled the pieces you laser engraved the parts with some beautifully appropriate art work then the jewelry box would still be considered hand made in my opinion and the artwork would also be an enhancement to the box.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

I partly but mostly do not agree Anthony. Mathias W. could use a large water wheel or steam power hooked up to a universal PTO ,geared to divert to any wood shaping machine, and make it all run remotely by using bowling balls in a giant type " marble machine " that controls all functions remotely without the use of *electicity *and turn out some killer HM numericly, oompa loopa style .


----------



## itsmic (Nov 11, 2009)

Very interesting subject, I would have to go along with most I have read so far to some degree. Gray area is hard to define. "IMO" If someone standing at a machine someplace far removed from the creation of a piece, say someone making a leg part for a piece of furniture, well that individual definitely did not hand make the finished product, it's made by a number of machines and different people with no involvement in the piece other than quality control requirements and a paycheck. To me most all we do here on the site could be considered handmade. We are involved with it's creation and production in a "hands on" way. I for one would like to improve my tool repertoire, (man, had to look that one up) and also my wood stock pile. Some pieces I have cut the tree or limb, cut the boards and let them dry, and then used them as part of a project, but, I still used hardware, glue, and maybe some boards from a pallet or store. I think tools are tools, we all use them to some degree, how much bearing that has on whether it is "hand made" or not, I could not be sure. The tools we use, I think, mostly have to do with how long it takes, and the ease of precision of our "hand made" creations. Just thinking out loud


----------



## jtscira (Jul 2, 2011)

Yeah this is a subject that has no right answer. Just opinions. And I guess I will have to change my answer to anything that uses tools not hand powered is not a truly "handmade" item. That obviously does not mean it was not made by a craftsman.

And bottom line I guess it really does not matter. What matters is if you and your customers are happy with what is coming out of your shop.


----------



## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

I'm not in the least bit suggesting that a piece fully cut with CNC start to finish is hand-made. Even if the builder actually wrote the g-code using Notepad.

Routers could go either way. Used with a DT jig, fence, or any other kind of guide negates hand made. If, however, you route some lettering freehand with the router, wouldn't that lean more toward being hand made? How about "you can use all the power tools you want as long as it doesn't give you increased accuracy, it only speeds up the time it takes you to do the task"? And why does using a Table Saw not negate a piece being hand-made? I think I could argue against all power tools and even some hand tools that, if used, the piece could not be considered hand-made.

You guys are getting funnier and funnier. From the cnc user perspective I feel like asking the hand tool guys if they've ever built something with a hand plane? Before you say "Yes", I'll add that if you used ANY other tool in the completion of the project, then you don't apply. Just trying to help you understand that if a cnc is used, then the project is likely far from finished. CNC was only a single step in the whole building process.

I have a hard enough time trying to define what hand made is to myself, much less trying to explain it to someone else. I think Anthony said it best in his latest post.


----------



## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

"I have a hard enough time trying to define what hand made is to myself, much less trying to explain it to someone else. I think Anthony said it best in his latest post"-Rance

That's why these threads are so interesting. We're all becoming smarter and better humans through this kind of discourse. "what is handmade", "do you ethics allow this or that", "is this a moral decision". I think this is the absolute PERFECT segment of the populations to which to pose these questions. We're all here because we like to create. We appreciate the PROCESS of creation and are usually less concerned with the specific methodology. We see countless comments "I bet that was fun", "that was really clever", "that is beautiful".

It's nice that despite our own personal definitions of particular topics, we can all converse freely and admire both the opinions and creations of our fellow man.


----------



## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

I'm in full agreement with Mike, It's a real can of worms!.


----------



## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Well said, *Bertha*.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

I'm not not changing any of my answers.

I know exactly and precisely what 'hand made ' means .

It runs on electricity , and lasts about 100 years

 youtube


----------



## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

I think handmade can include power tools. I consider almost anything made in our shops to be handmade. Even if it is in a production run. The gray area for me is when computers are involved in the manufacturing. If cncs or lasers are used in a project it doesnt preclude it from being handmade. However if the product is 100% cnc or laser, I would not consider that handmade. The term handmade seems more like a marketing ploy than a literal interpratation


----------



## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

To me, my definition of handmade means that human power, in some way shape or form is interacting with the work piece as it is taking shape. To overly simplify this. Take a miter saw with stop block setup, and have the human power of turning the saw on, and lowering the blade into the workpiece, the resulting cut off would be by my definition hand made. Once you remove the human interaction, a machine pulls the trigger and lowers the blade through the workpiece, that is no longer hand made…

I expect hand made to have some imperfections that are caused by that human interaction, and those imperfections are in no small part what to me at least, gives hand made its value. Like a diamond versus a cubic virconia…

The galoots / neanders out there will likely take a radically different point of view on this…


----------



## itsmic (Nov 11, 2009)

The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48:

Handmade \Hand"made`\ (h[a^]nd"m[=a]d`), a.
Manufactured by hand; as, handmade shoes. Contrasted with
machine-made. Handmaid

Moby Thesaurus II by Grady Ward, 1.0:

45 Moby Thesaurus words for "handmade":
assembled, built, cast, constructed, crafted, created, custom,
custom-built, custom-made, extracted, fabricated, fashioned,
forged, formed, gathered, grown, handcrafted, harvested, homemade,
homespun, machine-made, machined, made, made to order, man-made,
manufactured, milled, mined, molded, prefab, prefabricated,
processed, put together, raised, ready-for-wear, ready-formed,
ready-made, ready-prepared, ready-to-wear, refined, shaped,
smelted, well-built, well-constructed, well-made

there are probably a million definitions, this was just copied and pasted


----------



## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Think about Gerstner tool chests. Their web site speaks of American craftsmen building those heirloom quality chests, the pride of those craftsmen in their product, etc. They show a video of a chest being built. You get the impression that those chests are hand made, but they don't actually say they are hand made. And they definately use power tools to make them. I would consider them handmade just because of the individual attention each chest gets. I think if a craftsperson is using tools, powered or otherwise, to build something using his or her hands, it's still handmade.


----------



## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Cranks's example might also apply to Bentley automobiles. An army of robots, no doubt. but a lot of handwork too.


----------



## saddletramp (Mar 6, 2011)

My personal definition of hand made would be any item that was essentially made by one or two people as opposed to something made on an assembly line.

Some of the total galloots here are arguing that if it is not made entirely with hand tools then it is not hand made. I could say to them that if any tools are used then it is not hand made. Only items made entirely by hand such as a basket woven out of grass are hand made. In truth, everyone is going to have his or hers own oppinion as to what hand made means to them and I seriously doubt that there is very much of anything that anyone can say to anyone else that will have much impact toward changing anyones mind.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Handmaid / handmaiden / handy / amos and handy a. Arbitrarily poised , responsive , burnable , deconstruted,
used , or unusable , fabric lined , haute coture , welded, baked, half baked, spunmaid , scullerymaid , sheila,mate,
first mate made, oil refined , jello molded , ready whipped , ready robed , dis robed prefab , pies , ready-deformed,ready cute, gold mined , slag heaped, mis-formulated ,baby formula , harvested , crop circled ,distilled , 
ready-proofed , techno-tranced , belated, gloated,trigger- pulled ,electronikized , beaconed , ham , bacon, beakers , tweaked , slated , baited , slacked , jacked , out-back, home fried ,spallted , vanilla-malted , halted ,,halter-topped , busted ,busty,rusted , rusty, machine washed , closed lined , lead lined , and *birdhouses*

Sourse: The Inter-Galactic Dictionary of Wikipediness vol./.0000000314


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Saddle , I like totally agree with like that woven grass ideology .


----------



## saddletramp (Mar 6, 2011)

However, in this case, we would have to call it beak made.


----------



## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

I would like to add a differant spin on it from a handicapped point of view.
Basicly I think hand made is everything is "hands on" to include hand tools to machine tools. There are however some things that would help me greatly and that would be a CNC to cut pictures or engravings in box top lids that I want to build and give away.
I will be doing the whole project by hand except the carvings. This also takes some of my time by having to find a nice picture or print and installing it into the CNC to cut. This part is not by hand, but it does take mind effort for me that is a huge thing to do.
So to sum it up I would say that to be called "Hand Made" 90% has to be cut and assybled by hand.
Just my .02 worth
Arlin


----------



## BobTheFish (May 31, 2011)

Going back to my definition of handmade, being,

"handmade- "primarily made with handtools".

I make allowance for cutting logs into boards, or boards to general size and shape with a tablesaw or its equivalent saw. Bandsaws and scrollsaws are questionable for my definition - sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Some things I don't really classify as handmade by the nature of what they are. A wine bottle balancing board is basicaly a block of wood with a hole drilled into it. Not a handmade item."

I kind of want to point out, I'm not particularly saying that machine tools are disallowed. What I mean to say is that the work itself must be mainly hand done. Thinking up my definition was more or less trying to come up with a definition that kept out the majority of things I've seen that I don't like seeing "handmade" attached to. Things that are obviously detailed primarily with machines or machine tools (some of the "wood carvings" I've seen here, are very obviously laser etched, and despite coming from 20-30 different users, still have that "image rendered in black and white with the contrast maxed" look. Yeah, you may have set up the image, or the template, or what have you, and you may have picked out the wood, but there's nothing to it that speaks of the individuality of the creator.

"Hand assembled" also seems to be tossed under the category of handmade, as well as "hand distressed". As pointed out, these tend to be steps towards the end, done by hand, that only add the slightest variations. Before "handmade" became a buzzword, I remember things being done as such, tagged as "This item is meant to look distressed, and as such imperfections and variations are to be considered to be desirable. No two look alike". Now that "handmade" is all the rage, these companies are willing to do whatever they can to add a small part of the process under the category so they can use the label (or its variations).

"Handmade" almost, to me, has the same connotations of "freehand". If I were to tell everyone here to draw a cat, I'd get 50-60 different cats. If I were to say to try to reproduce MY cat, and with as close a realistic likeness as you can, I'd still get 50-60 different cats, despite drawing the same cat in the same style. Everyone's artistic style and ability, much like the differences in one's own handwriting, leads to variation which is what constitutes how one identifies "handmade". These variations give a quality and nuance that differs from production models that might be "distressed" differently, or might have grain variations, or so on.

I mentioned also smaller items, like the wine balancers, as NOT handmade. These items, in and of themselves, are typically so simple that there's nothing to be "handmade" about them. I could probably crank out 20 in an evening, even if I used all hand tools. It is what it is. It can't be made any other way except via manufactury techniques or assemblage ideologies. It doesn't qualify.

(Oddly enough, I do many crafts in an assembly line manner, by hand, but wouldn't care to attach a "handmade" label to them as I purposely create then using manufacturing techniques, and am seeking a uniformish end result. Variations? yeah. done by hand? yeah… but still too much in line with the manufactury mentality.)

Taking a lot of time to set up a machine or "hand programming" (which I've done my fair share of with websites), isn't the same as "handmaking". Nor is something handmade, and then replicated on machines. The original, yes, is handmade, the copies, are not.

Ungh. This answer is much longer than the original, but I guess when everyone else started getting technical, I felt like I had to explain further.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Yes my friend , beak made indeed , and tiny talons . They are waiting on more worms .

So as we wait with them, I would like to say…...........................

*" Today, We are gathered here on this great virtual battlefield . The brave men and women who

debated here, testing wheather those handmade items , or any woodworker so conceived

and so dedicated can long endure. Trees give their lives so that we may live .

The world will little note , nor long remember what we say here , but it can never forget

our last measure of devotion to handy-craft . Let us resolve that all nations shall have a

new birth of woodworking . That we all walk together , hand in hand , into a bright

and glorious future , and that hand made crafts shall not perish from this Earth . "*


----------



## saddletramp (Mar 6, 2011)

AMEN!!


----------



## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

my thoughts given earlier in this forum are what they are, but there not said with an iron fist, i guess i have in my fantasy world what hand made really means to me…i see Santa sitting in his shop making toys for children and i don't see him using power tools…now that's my fantasy world…what is real is different..and its hard for me to get a hand made feeling when i think of certain machines…but…even with my own limitations, i have to use power tools to aid me in my wood work…and i consider my projects to be hand made…so …i don't really know if there is a right or wrong answer here…but i do consider my work hand made…...and its beyond me to tell someone who uses a cnc that there work is not hand made…i would not do that…..but if i could defer to my fantasy world of Santa and his toys…that's where i would feel most comfortable with hand made…but we don't live in that world…im glad that were all here and have the abilities that we do, we all have the drive to make things of beauty and they are pleasing to the eye and to the touch…and we make others happy by what we do make…if i were to behold a carving in my hand…and could feel the smoothness of the wood..weather is was hand carved or done with a cnc…it would please my senses and would make me happy…thats what is important…....not weather im right or wrong in what i feel is right for "hand made"


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Let me re- link that earlier thing

I know exactly what 'hand made ' means…....

it runs on electricity and lasts about 100 years

youtube


----------



## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

The wind is blowing, branches sway within the wind, the tree is growing for years and years and always has been, when the tree it dies and falls fast to the ground.. there comes the crashing noise, no more branches in the wind…wood is milled, the beauty is still there..but still there are no branches in the air..the wood worker takes the mighty limb that was…he sands it…he turns it…and shapes it in his hand.

....and sometimes there are machines there something newer in the land…they sand it they turn it they shape it round and round…but when it comes right to it…its not a different sound…by hand or machine the wood it takes its shape…and something there is always there…the smile that wooden objects make.

grizzman


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

nice , grizz !


----------



## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

It is great having Poets here. I love the Poetic saying.
Arlin


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

I miss Frank . Frank ( rustic wood art ) is having a rough time health-wise, like so many here at LJs.
Check out some of his blogs.


----------



## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

I think if your selling your goods, that wether it was hand made and to what degree, would be determined by the purchaser : )

Otherwise, what ever floats the boat.


----------



## Tootles (Jul 21, 2011)

Well said Bertha!


----------



## doyoulikegumwood (Jun 21, 2007)

Ok I'll bite the bate

IMHO we are all craftsmen and women here, and I for one use the tool best suited for the job, just because i choose to use my table saw to rip a 5 foot piece of lumber vs my my handy arm strong saw should not preclude my work from being called hand made. To my knowledge they have yet to invent a magic box that I throw lumber in one side say dresser and a ready to go dresser comes out the other end.

Having worked in small shops and in the so called mass production facilities, I have to say you would all be very surprised to find out how much ashley furnitures plants look just like your home workshop on a large scale. Just think of it like this your shop with someone working at every work station.

Not trying to ruffle feather with that but I choose not to judge someones work by how they do it, but by the quality of the work they have produced.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

No , I don't believe so and I will explain why with some formulated Bs code . And by the way , meat power is only for butchers , who have access to really great bandsaws and scary sharp knives .

1. Hand pushes tool across wood without interface = handmade

This will not work . If you do not have face , inter or otherwise , then you will not be able to* actually see* what you are working on . An exo-face is really no help either, although I did see this attempted once at a *circus,* but he was blind-folded and had a beautiful assistant who was helping him . He was ' pushing' the sharp tool through the workpiece ( I believe they were demonstrating the tools 'sharpness' by pushing it through a *wicker basket* ) At one point his assistant, due to some mis communication and ignoring safety protocols, entered the basket . The blindfolded guy kept plunging the sharp tools into the basket and we all became very alarmed and frightened . Luckily she was unharmed and still *quite Beautiful *, we were relieved and mystified by this demonstration . It taught me never to be blindfolded while doing tool stuff .

2. Hand *pulls *tool across wood = handmade

This is not a good idea unless , like me , you are extremely experienced and sophisticated in your woodworking techniques . Japanese woodworkers attempt this only after many years of practice and apprenticeship and zen-like stuff. The Japanese are Masters at pulling all types of tools. All woodworking is done while sitting down. This might sound easy at first, but it is not . Over time it develops almost super-human strength. It is also a way to eliminate the weak-minded ,as well as the overly-bright, in the apprentice programs. They scoff at using western style clamps , using only their shoulders and feet and occationally toes for those things. After sitting for hours , working on a scarf joint to join two beams , which may have many dados blind miters and 17 hidden keys and wedges , all done by hand , the only consolation is knowing that you can finally stand up . The beams are put in place by awe-inspiring advanced robotics . Then it's sushi break time . I love Japanese woodworking , but it' not everyone's cup of Saki .

...........................................................................................................to be continued..


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Wow

I just returned from the patio.

Wow

The heat index is 117 degrees !

I went out to have a glass of wine and a smoke ….......whew !

The heat made me feel a little lighted-headed , kinda surreal out there.

My mind kept wandering to all kinds of things …...................

I thought I would share with you some Japanese traditional theater SET Decorations

Made by Female Japanese carpenters….......

These are made from wood and definitely gives a good example of

Fine traditional hand made craftswomenship…..so enjoy

" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKooyKGbwQw&feature=fvsr":http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKooyKGbwQw&feature=fvsr


----------



## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

*moment*, thanks. I could only spare a minute and a half because am working on something but those sets were beautiful and it was fun to watch the joy in those students. They seemed to be happy in their work. God Bless.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Thanks helluvawreck , yes they did seem happy . Everyone *should* be happy in their work . Those girls are prodigies and have a bright future ahead !


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

3. Hand pushes tool across wood (while eyes look at tool ) = hand made

This can be considered true in most instances . Take hand planes as an example . You are not supposed to *'pull'* hand planes . I made this mistake when I first started out in woodworking . It took a long time for me to figure out that you actually have to push them, so don't feel bad if you've done the same thing : it's a learning curve and planes are complicated to the novice . After I learned that it also required some sort of * 'blade'*, it was a piece of cake ! To produce truly 'hand' made work using the plane , you must first hand make your own plane . Borrow someone's plane to do this, and make sure that that plane is also handmade or it doesn't count.

Next ,you will have to cold forge a 'blade' to stick in your plane . The neighborhood Blacksmith will be able to help you with this. If he is too busy , or uninterested , you will have to do this yourself . Use an old lawnmower blade for this. If you do not have an old lawnmower blade, then take one off your neighbors' lawnmower. This is OK because we all know that he always wakes you up early on Saturday morning with his LOUD obnoxious yard work. Be prepared for longs hours of hammering and blisters . Then sharpen it up on a handmade foot peddled grinding wheel . Then you will be ready to make more handmade stuff. It's a lot of work , but you will take pride in your accomplishment, and be ready to move on from there with confidence .


----------



## therookie (Aug 29, 2010)

I think that rance hit the nail on the head.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

4. Pushing tools on an empty stomach = Handmade

This is totally bogus . This myth is perpitrated by the same people who try to write you a check when you 
are selling valuable handmade stuff at craft fairs ! If you are doing hand tool woodworking at home, you 
should take frequent breaks to eat , drink wine , smoke , computerize ,and design future projects.
I learned this in Europe , and it has served me well . So It's time to take a break and have a 
meal. Please don't forget* PIE* after your meal. Pie will make you happy and improve your woodworking .
After my meal I'm going to have pineapple pie with ice cream on top .


----------



## S2artDesigns (Aug 4, 2011)

For me Handmade= Shaped or sanded with elbowgrease and finished with Sweat and Tears.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)




----------



## AaronK (Nov 30, 2008)

to start, this is my definition of handmade: the hand guides either the workpiece and/or the tool in the operation.

i think the example of a power planer is good - it is basically highlighting the aspect of hand vs machine in the construction process. I would consider a planer to result in a product that is *not* handmade since it both moves the work and the tool. In a jointer, otoh, the hand moves the work while machine moves the tool - so the jointing process/operation is a handmade one. However, unless you are selling surfaced wooden boards, you're probably going to be adding a lot of value added handwork. And usually a majority of the added value comes from an attentive hand either moving the work or moving the tool. So if you used a power planer to surface a board, then tried to pass that board off as hand made, that wouldnt be right. But if you used that board to make a chair, then the worthwhile part about a chair is how the joints were constructed. (there is a video out there that shows a chair being almost entirely constructed by machine - worth googling.) In that case we dont care how the boards were surfaced, we care about how those came to be a chair - which is "by hand" if that construction involved a hand guiding either tool or work or both.

I've never used CNC or laser, but I would generalize that if the machine is moving both the work and the tool, then that's not handmade. Now, it's up to you discretion to determine whether or not the final product is "handmade" based on whatever else goes into it. Is the CNC carving part of a larger piece, or is that all there is. THe piece will then be more or less handmade depending on how much the hand guided either work or tool.

Also, I disagree about the assembly line business. You can have workers in an assembly line all doing stuff by hand and churning widgets out by the thousands - the stuff will still be handmade. OTOH, if you place a piece of material in a CNC and it moves work and tool, then it's not handmade even if you're making just one. It could be "custom made," but hand means hand.

I think handmade is also independent of material type - I've seen fridge magnets made out of bottle caps. In that case, someone probable epoxied a magnet onto the back, a little sticker on the front, and bada boom bada bing: handmade magnet. The value added is not from the machine made bottle cap, the machine made magnet, the glue, or the sticker - it's the hand guiding all those parts together.


----------



## retiredandtired (Mar 10, 2011)

I refuse to go back to whittling all my wood. Give up a chain saw for a sharp rock to cut a tree, then sharpen my rock to make slabs and on down the line to a delivered piece that you carried on your back to a person in the next town. I don;t think so. I will burn down my shop and I am not even thru building it. I wiil just tell everyone I built it and not say anything else, they can just wornder about it. 
Aint modern life fun and easy.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

5. Pushing *and* Pulling the tool across the wood = hand made

Be sure to read , understand , and follow all the instructions that come with your 
power tools. And don't forget the most important rule…....Always wear your eyeglasses
( if you need them ) while watching re-runs of THIS OLD HOUSE . Eye strain is no joke .

This has specific applications in certain woodworking operations . Research and googleling
is advised to learn how to do it safely . It is only done widely in New ZeeLand , Mexico ,
and in certain parts of the U.S.A.

I have included a list of places where this is practiced in the States, ...below

 Youtube


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

6. Spinning the wood, then pushing the wood into a spinning tool = Handmade

Yes comrades , If you are known as *" SuperMirock"* Koolski !

youtube


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

7. Spinning the wood , then finding a brave new frontier = Handmade

Hell yes ! " He creates Art , but it's not for the faint of heart .

Do not try this at home, ....in fact…..just don't try this .


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

8. This spot *was* reserved for * vonhagen*

He has handmade skills better than our kids' mad playstation skills…..awsome..

Unfortunately, He has closed his youtube account .

He once scared the hell out of me with just a piece of packing tape .

Well the time is 10:00 p.m. and the temperature is a cool 97 degrees .

I'm going to head back to the patio for a break .

Let's fill up this empty space with some empty space…..OK Vonhagen ? kool…

 youtube




Full Screen


----------



## MedicKen (Dec 2, 2008)

It has my blood on it somewhere. It never fails anytime I make something I either cut myself with a chisel or get a splinter resulting in a small blood stain. I figure that qualifies as being hand made


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Yes it does ! Ken , you're so right.

Do you notice the " lapse time ".?

It's the amount of time that elapses after you have popped yourself with a very sharp chisel .

The cut looks so invisible for about 20 seconds before the blood starts to really flow

and the hair on the back of your neck stands up . good times .


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

9. Hand pushes *and* pulls wood across the tool= Handmade

Do Not Do That .


----------



## FreddyS (Oct 21, 2010)

I'd like to add a different concept:

Only hand tools involved = hand made, no electricity or any means of power other than your own muscles.

Power tools involved= human made, a human must operate the power tool to make it work, isin't it? Otherwise…

Computer/automation involved = machine made, some people like to think that, because they program the computer/machine they are doing the work but the final outcome is machine made, let's see ford trying to sell a car saying is hand made hehee, pushing it hard they could use" hand assembled" maybe. There's nothing wrong with machine made stuff though, and some times is even prefered.

An analogy to the last point: I see a lot of "live" acts in the music industry where the "artist" just pushes the play button and shakes/dances around and the laptop does the rest… Yes, they did all the hard work at home before the show but if no instruments are played real time on the show, at most, they could call it mouse made 

Cheers!


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

FreddyS…..You make some cool homemade jigs and tools …..for sure .

I , for one, would make my own tequila by hand , but the govment discourages folks
from building distileries . Sure , they will let you distill water but the tax and permits are sky high, and they 
assume that maybe you will start making Tequila with that pure water . And they are probably right,
but it is still outrageous ! In a perfect world , my back pasture would be filled with agave plants .

There is only one flaw in your argument about things being handmade :

*Using only hand tools , with no electricity , only muscle power ?
*
Your heart (electric tool ) which runs your muscles which controls you hand is

necessary for any type of handmade work. I've never met a woodworker, who was not able

to breath or move , capable of producing any kind of quality work, handmade or otherwise.

What runs on electricity and can last about 100 years ? .....WE do…............ cheers.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

I do know what you mean ,though. I wish I were back in Oaxaca , watching folks do some hand

carving and sipping on tequila with mango juice and eating some mushroom soup …........

maybe next winter I'll come for a visit….......


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)




----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

10. * Anything *made by Mankind = Handmade

goodnight and have a pleasant tomorrow

 Youtube


----------



## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

IMO Two tests must be passed to determine hand made>

If I did it, it is hand made regardless of what tools I use or even where the design came from.

If somebody somewhere didn't push a button and have a machine spit out a *completed product*, then it's hand made. If they push a button and a component is produced, but then they take that component and assemble it with other components to make a completed product, that probably qualifies as hand made.

If I build a fireplace mantel and the design includes some hand or machine carves components that I choose to use, then the overall mantel is still hand-made, but the hand-carved moniker may be a lie. If hand carved but by someone else (in China) then hand made and hand carved may apply.

That's my take.


----------



## Flyin636 (Jul 29, 2011)

Somewhere(Eric Sloan's bk on handtools?)is a Henry Ward Beecher quote…..."A tool is but the extension of a man's hand;and a machine is but a complex tool".

So to the OP,its not the tool but how you use it.BW


----------



## KenBee (Mar 9, 2011)

To me it stands to reason if you start with raw lumber or whatever material you are working with to create any type of project it is handmade irregardless of the tools or procedures used to finish said project. The box, chair, table, etc do not make themselves so thereby your hands are the primary tool in constructing any and all projects you construct. It appears unlike some of you I don't have a single tool in my inventory that can operate itself. I have to use my hands to set it up and then guide it with my hands to complete the task at hand. I don't have a router table or saw that I can throw a board on and it magically routs or saws the correct dimensions or grooves the plans call for without the use of my hands. Once the wood or whatever is dimensioned and finished does it magically put itself together without the use of ones hands?

So logically speaking any and all projects in a shop are handmade.


----------



## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

That's a great quote Flyin636. So apropos Ken.

Two of the best posts in this whole thread IMO. Not nececarilly to support any bizarre views I may have either.


----------



## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

hand made is still truckin on huh..did the guy who start this threat ever get in on this…....i think burger king has got the hand made thing down…McDonald's is still fighting its way up….....its all to much for me…....how did a simple term carry on into a three day conversation…lol….....i bet this thread was hand made….lol…......i need a nap…maybe after that i can add something of worth here…......


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

*Flyin363* .......Yup…....and thanks for not quoting that scrawney chriss schwarzzzz….zzzz…guy. I wonder if he has ever even chopped down a tree with a sharp ax . He's laughin all the way to the bank , though.


----------



## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

The OP(Mike) has not posted here since, nor on LJ. I thinks we scared him off.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

David , you young *********************************** so and so, La barbe du bon Dieu , if U tel moi dat de Moon iz blu,

den brother Iz beleevs U !! Grizz needs to git off de junk food and git on tha Swamp food !

Laissez les bon temps Rouler…...lets Rolo !!!

 Youtube


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Eating *Creole* and* Cajun* food will keep you looking and feeling good !

Here is some video that I made of my* Youngest Daughter *and her* Boyfriend* not long ago .

youtube


----------



## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

That is a vision for the future. : ^ )


----------



## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

@moment, lol I have never heard that phrase and wonder what the beard of the good god could be? In any case, mon ami, I will never tell you that la lune est bleu unless I see you with the lunettes bleu sur votre tête.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Now back to the topic of CNC and it's relation to handmade woodworking . I have already made it known that I believe everything that is made is handmade. A CNC is no different than a potato peeler in my analysis . I think we should all be asking ourselves " *what is Deep Blue* ? " Who is Deep Blues' agent ? Can we* make our own *Deep Blue to help us in our woodworking ? Would Deep Blue take up the *other side of our garages*.so that we would have to park* both cars* outside ? Would we need even* more* dust collection to protect Deep
Blue along with our tools ? Would Deep
Blue cause the mechanical parts in our cars to mysteriously fail while we were driving to harbor freight and then 
*lie to us about it* , just like H.A.L in 2001 space odessey ? Will replacement parts and maintainance cost 
more than the price of a thousand ss table saws ?

Do we Really need* Deep Blue *? I don't think so . Deep Blue is not that* smart* . Deep Blue won 5 .

games on Jeapardy * sure* , But deep Blue wasn't *smart* enough to figure out that it had *won* , or else it

could have just kept coming back to play the game week after week until it managed to* bankrupt* the

entire Network . I *suspect *that they didn't even *pay* Deep Blue . Or They just *pretended* to .

I think Deep Blue was duped by that Hollywood crowd . WE should all be cautious , because Deep Blue

might activate Skynet and that Matrix thingy , and that would not be good for our shops ? right ?


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

David , I dont make much sense most of the time. I try hard not to . I do have a degree in caju.nology from Monroe State University. I put myself through school by drift testing drilling pipe by day and drinking in bars at night and going to class sometimes in the middle when i could . fete fete fete .( sssssshhhhh don tel nobody )


----------



## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

@moment, A more pressing question: Are you going to let your youngest daughter marry the guy with the David Lee Roth overalls ? ;=)


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Hell yes , he dances better than I do , and his family has $$$$$ beau coup . My grand bebe will be
well taken care of. ( she's already in a family way , sssshhhhh don tel nobody. )


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Goodnight….and have a pleasant tomorrow .

 youtube


----------



## nate22 (Jul 12, 2010)

Handmade to me is maaking it with a combination of hand tools and power tools. That and making it yourself. If you put something thats already cut out then it's not handmade at least to me.


----------



## davidmicraig (Nov 21, 2009)

I remember posting a box on facebook one time. One of the responses I got was "Nice to see something that is handmade and not made by machine…" I had to respond that the box was actually made by a few of them, scrollsaw, router, drum sander…  Not mass produced but still had the element of manufactured.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

You know those times when you are at a* family dinner* and there is only* one* porkchop

left on the platter , and* everyone* is looking at it . And the next thing you know is that you

have a* fork stuck* in the back of your hand because you were not* quite *quick enough ?

That happened to me only once . After that incident , I made a bunch of* handmade*

wooden * Forks* for the* Kids* to use . Very *' rewarding ' *.


----------



## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Moment's pie looks like it's fresh off the CNC, and no less delicious. There have been 60 posts since I last visited this thread. Did we ever decide is a CNC falls within the realm of "handmade"? Lol.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

I am so glad you asked, Bertha , because this is a serious topic for us all . I may , myself be opening

up an even more ginormous can of worms with this one .
more on CNC topic .

( By the way , If any one knows where I might purchase a monster can
of worms , I would really appreciate it . I have looked for them at several
stores . I looked at several stores…. like wal-mart…the feed store…...
even Lea Valery…..no luck . They do have some at Toys - R- Us , but
they were plastic . I try to buy 'green stuff' whenever possible .

I need to send some to those 'Hillbilly Handfishing ' folks . Drinking 
large amounts of Beer and Fishing is hard enough without having to 
Actually get in the water . I feel sorry for them . so sad. )

I need to go out to the patio for a smoke , followed by several doughnuts , I'm sure . Then


----------



## LepelstatCrafts (Jan 16, 2011)

Well Guys,

This thread has been really incredible on how everyone defines handmade. I decided to wait to see where the conversation went before I weighed in on this topic. While I agree that there can be a wide range on what handmade means to everyone, here is my definition and why.

Handmade means to me that it all starts *after* the design has been completed. The reason behind this is that not everyone likes to or can design every project that they decide to make. I use CAD sometimes, plans made by others, pencil and paper, and also just winging it. Due to the different types of design, in my opinion, you don't start a handmade project until after the design phase is complete.

I will address the big topic, what about CNC? CNC to me is not handmade. The loading of the material just is like stacking a wood rack. Yes it takes effort to do, but your not performing Work to change the material. Since I have ruled out the design process as not being a definer, the only aspect left is the actual operation of the machine. Since allot of CNC operated machines, such as LASER, CNC Router, Water Jet, and Auto Carvers, perform over 50% of the work, what is left is assembly and finishing. Therefor CNC to me is not handmade. The parts can be hand assembled or hand finished, but I find it very hard to give it the moniker handmade.

My definition really is all about how the work is done. table saws, routers, jointers, drill presses, band saws, and so forth need to be operated via the person's direct control, therefor it can be stated that the work was done by the hands. Someone pointed out that they felt that planer was only hand loaded. Before I read their thoughts, I would have classified that under the hand operated therefor handmade category, but they made a very good point. The material is loaded into the machine where then the planer does all the work. Following the definition of the CNC machines, the planer is not part of the machines that can be a handmade operation. If you use all the handmade tools and then use a planer to construct the project do I still feel it is handmade or hand assembled? I consider the project still being handmade.

So what about the CNC parts that are combined with the tools under the handmade category? Well it is all about degrees then really isn't it? If almost all the parts are made by CNC, it falls under the CNC non-handmade definition. If the project is made primarily made by hand operated tools, and only in a small part, with CNC parts, then I still considered handmade just like the planer. Everything in else are just degrees of handmade.

We all should remember that tools have advanced from the rock, to the stick-rock hammer, to the knife, and so on. The evolutions are all done to improve and reduce time in performing a task. At some point true hand operated tools were replaced with steam, then electrically power, and most recently; CNC. What in a hundred years will be next? Will at that time, CNC created projects look to the craftsmen of that time as being handmade? The handmade definition will continue to evolve and change not only from person to person, but generation to generation. This change, like the change in tools is good. Therefor, really does it matter that the definition from person to person is different? Not really since in 100 years, the perception of the word will change too.


----------



## Wiggy (Jun 15, 2011)

Handmade/homemade/hand finished…
I cannot carve with regular blades/knives/mallets etc. My hands are too screwed up. 
However, I can turn a mean arc/movement/whorl/feature using my 'Dremel' and assorted bits/attachments.

I design and create all my own work without so much as a pattern except for the one that is lurking about the dust ball filled corners of my brain.

I design/create/embellish my own drapery, upholstery and historically correct renaissance era costuming using a computer assisted sewing machine and a serger.

My ex-brother in law created breathtaking, intricate scultures from scrap metal. One piece incooporated 135+ life sized Elm leaves he cut of scrap, sheet brass and was much like something "Jeffro" would have created but, in metal. He used an arc welder and a laser cutter to capture and bring his artwork to life not a forge, hammer and anvil.

Would an incredible meal be considered "Homemade" if you used a micro-wave, an electric oven and a bread machine? Or, would you have to use a wood stove, grow you own veggies, grind your own wheat, etc. in order to garner that title?

So… if something is, truely, one of a kind then:
"Handmade"=you made it yourself.
"Homemade"= you made it at home.
"Hand finished"= I have the blisters to prove it.

Ok… I probably should have simply remained quiet but, couldn't help throwing some rocks in the pond. That is just how I roll.
I will shut up, now.

Peace and blessed be, fellow "Chip-monks".


----------



## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

Yes Al, using CNC is STILL hand made(as long as it is in your own garage/workshop). 

Handmade, homemade, home built, home finished, home baked, half-baked? Though I don't think it really makes a difference.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

*Bertha*, OOOOOOPPPSS ! I meant* Roger* , OOOOOOOPPPSS ! I mean 'Wiggy' , you and * Mike* make
some very insightful and interesting points !


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

*rance* , .....It does if you are making brownies !!!! Shop brownies of course .


----------



## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

I would consider something to be "hand made" as opposed to factory made. Even in a factory setting, some work may actually be done by hand because a machine is not capable of performing that task. An intricate carving would qualify as "hand made", but if that carving were done by a CNC machine, I wouldn't call it hand made. You might use "home cooking" as a comparison; did it come from a can or was it made from scratch? Even pre-processed ingredients (canned) can be incorporated and still be considered home cooked. I guess the line between hand made and factory made is a fuzzy one.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)




----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Excuse me for a bit , I have to go to the projects page and comment on

Camerongagnon's new thang. That guy cracks me up !

youtube


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

I have a question regarding Math…....

I would like to build a Geodesic Dome one of these days .

I found the method I want to use that doesn't require any hubs

and leaves no gaps on the inside when joining the struts of the wood triangles .

I know the math about calculating the size of the dome by its radius

I am curious about the bevel angle on the strut along its length .

If you watch the video , pause it at exactly at 1:00 min in , and you will see the angle

he discusses , Does this angle increase / decrease as you change the radius ?

or is it a constant for a 3v dome ,....how do you calculate that angle ? ..thanks

youtube


----------



## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^ask BritBoxmaker about that. He'll probably have the answer in a nanosecond.
What about a WoodRat? Is that handmade. I've always wanted one of those gizmos.

Well, 114 replies into this and I guess handmade is however you define it.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Yea , Candy man would know , I may pm him about that if he doesn't stumble upon this topic .

The neat thing about this method is its clean line and economy of build , just a few tools and 
screws . You could rent a sizzors lift and put it together in one day by yourself ,after building
all the triangles and having them ready at hand . If your largest strut size was …say under 1m
and you were using 2×4s , you might need another pair of hands to help . I ve hung alot of sheetrock
using a lift.


----------



## itsmic (Nov 11, 2009)

you might need another pair of hands to help

Q? would this then make it "double hand made" I am asking because I have been reading your insightful info and it seems you know a lot of stuff


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Hummmmmmmmmmmmm…Team made . Go team!


----------



## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

I sure wish I could hear what he was saying in the video.

Moment, I don't know about a 3 volt dome. I live in a 120v home.

Seriously, these fascinate me. This actually sounds like a job for a CAD program. Can you point me to a good picture of what you are talking about. I could probably draw one up and deduce the angle for you.

Edit: Found my answer to the 1v, 2v, 3v, 4v, 5v confusion:
http://www.desertdomes.com/revcalc.html

More Edit: Moment, the angle stays the same for a 3v dome, no matter what the radius.


----------



## saddletramp (Mar 6, 2011)

A few posts back, Moment asked: "By the way , If any one knows where I might purchase a monster can of worms , I would really appreciate it . "

I don't know where you can get a monster can of worms, but I do know here you can open a monster can of Whoopass. LOL


----------



## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

The thing that usually squelches my fascination with these is when trying to figure out how to seal the (handmade)seams.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

*Saddle*.......that's funny !

*rance* Exactly….Thats good to know but what is the bevel angle that is used when you rip the struts. 
He's using a 1×2 but its not a rectangle, one face is beveled down its lenght so that they will close togerther without any gaps in the joints on the inside of the dome.


----------



## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

Yeah, I know. "Step 8" on That same website shows a rough angle for the linkages but not the faces like you are asking for. I tried to 'quickly' mock it up in SU but it didn't turn out to be so easy. It can be done but not quickly for a limited math guy like me. Maybe later, it still has me intrigued. I'm sure you could Google and find that angle quicker than me figuring it out in SU. I may Google a little too.

*Edit: *Looks like there's a discussion(and some answers) on This Page about 2/3 of the way down. WARNING: They are not all the same angle. Anywhere from 5-7 degrees it looks like.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

When he has the pieces on the jig ,the inside face of the strut is flush with the jig , the outside face or perimeter has an angle so that it will fold flush when joined to an adjacent triangle , thus no gaps on the back side …....whats that angle you suppose ?Can't quite wrap my mind around that calculation. google is no help


----------



## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

I Googled for (3v dome face angles) and the above reference was the first link. Yes, there IS a knack to Googling. It took me a while at first. The guy in the video must use '2 degree putty' when finished.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

2 degree putty…........Thats priceless…....still laughing…....thanks ! been all over that site .
When he joins two triangles together near the end of the video and lays them on the table you can see the approx. angle . One triangle is laying flat and the other is pointing to that ,as yet ., unknown degree.Notice when he is using the hand saw to cut off the overlaps on the triangle : he is not making a 90 degree cut , he is following that angle.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Well I guess I should revisit the topic of CNC and 'handmade' stuff . First I should provide a little background regarding when I built my first CNC contraption a few years ago . In those days ,every Tuesday , a friend of mine would come over to do some light housekeeping and wipe the viruses off the computer. AS you can imagine,I was all over the world with that thing ( the computer ) . One Tuesday she began telling me about CNC's .I was surprised by what she told me. I had always assumed that the initials 'CNC' stood for "Cut and Copy ". After I learned that ther was no "copy" in the title, It seem it would be OK to try it for handmade stuff, without compromising any principles , ..at least phoeneticly speaking .
The next week we started to build the CNC . I had some dual linear glides that I had salvaged from an overhead crane that was in a burned out building downtown , and they were just laying around the Apartment.I had to take them out on the balcony and cut them down a bit with a torch. Francis always loved the way it 'popped' when I put the striker to it. I had some scraps of MDF ( don't ask me what I used to think those initials stood for ! ) ready to go . We had already spent a week writing Dos , and it was exhausting , but in a good way.She hada Phd. in journalism so she wrote most of the code . I'm not too bright in that arena . I didn't go to DeVry Institute or some other fancy tech school, but I helped out and 'filled in some gaps' as the need arose. I hooked up a powerfull HF router to the sled and wired it to 8 car batteries, that were sitting by the cutting rig on the floor. Next, we hooked some USB cables and the power cord to the two small bar-b-que grill motors that controlled the axis . Then we connected these directly to an old Tandy computer that we had 're-purposed for this very task with the USB cables . At the last minute we realized that we did not have any wood to put on the
sled. I grabbed a sawzall and was about to cut up some of the kitchen countertop….when francis stoped me and reminded me what happened the last time I did that . whew. Well, we found a block of styrofoam in the closet,and decided to use that , and strapped it on the sled . We turn all the power up max by using transformers , Turned on the router , Then the computer . Everything was whiring and humming even louder than we antiscipated . WE were ready for the first 'run ' We were both excited . Looking back on it now ,we could have made some better choices, but we were raring to go . I stepped towards the computer and very carefully typed in the code…." MAKE BANDSAW BOX " then hit the 'enter key'. At first it all seemed to be going well, even though there was a fine mist of styrofoam filling the air , then the router gave off just the faintest hint of smoke before one of the car batteries exploded causing a FLASH OVER event and temporarily blinded us.We never saw the cutting torch hoses burning back towards bottles of acetyle ,because by that time we wer partially on fire ourselves and running for lives out the door. Then all Hell broke loose , we….....Hold on, some one's ringing my doorbell…..Ill be back in a minute to finish this story…....


----------



## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

LMAO x 2: Back in a minute = over an hour. He said Tandy computer and USB in the same sentence.

Hey, *********************************** ! What kinda powders you puttin on dem beniets ? ;=)


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

*Hey David* you so and so , they already has powder on dem , it aint brown sugar because that goes in coffee .
Well about that story….I may have exagerated just a bit…..she never did any light housekeeping . She is a good friend and does have a Phd , so she's not into that tidiness thing . Why is you up so late ? Damn its hot. I think this must have been what the 'dust bowl' was like in the 30's…whew, Da devil done gon back to hell just to cool off !


----------



## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

I get my five hours all I need.

Yeah Lucifer he was beatin his wife today… rainin while dat sun was shinin down.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Well , the first time I saw a CNC ( on video ) years ago , It was being used to reproduce
the Elgin marbles at the British Museum . Those were the freizes that an 'anthropologist '
Removed off the Parthenon in Athens and 'spirited' back to London . I watched as the router
bit of this incredibly expensive machine glided through the marble copy like butter . Being a sculptor
my first thought was that one could work in plasticine and never have to touch a chisel
again . From clay to marble without ever having to cut the marble . I wonder what Michealangelo
would have thought about that . They say he he could cut marble faster than any stone
mason alive . If the Pope had not highjacked him to paint some cartoons ( very good ones )
at the Vatican , his sculptures (captives ) might have been finished, he might have progressed
further into ? What ? Greek Sculpture of the human form can not be surpassed . He equaled
it . He was a Master . My second thought upon seeing the CNC was that I would ( discounting some 
fortuitous circumstance ) never be able to afford one. It would be as far out of reach for me as 
as my meager talents were to match those scuptors' works . Working in wood ; transferring 
clay into wood this easily was unknown when I was in grade school art class . This new tool facinated me because i was much better in clay than wood . I loved carving wood and working with clay . Sudenly they became equal in possibilities : you can make changes in clay models quickly and endlessly , but in the organic tissue of wood you just get one shot at shaping it . Why not shape the wood quickly and accurately
from your model and move on with your work . Why not create scuptures in stone the same way ?
As artists we draw upon what we see , and all art is derivative , we don't wish to ' copy ' others'
works , we wish to express our feelings in a tangible way that best expresses our uniqueness . This gives us individual purpose and a desire to share it , we are social creatures and this is our way . Everyone is an artist in my opinion . We all share each others Art . Whether it is something you made yourself and is in your home , It is viewed and shared by those near you . Whether it is massed produced and resides in a million homes , It is still shared . Your perception of its quality is unimportant when the most humble of objects can hold a reverence in someone's heart that is unfathomable to you , untill someone shares what it means to them . The final uniqueness of your art is simply you . You can not buy yourself , you cannot sell yourself , you can only share yourself . Art should give joy ,and its beauty must be shared . Those are some of my thoughts about art and about a tool used to create it . I'm happy I could* share* my feelings with you all .

.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

" Mr. Humble " by DENNIS GROSSEN*


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

JOSIF EPSHTEIN**


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Peace Goodnight and have a pleasant tomorrow


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

*Wow

It's a new Day !

It's my youngest daughter's birthday….....happy day !

AS a matter of fact , It's your birthday Too !! so…..Happy Birthday Everyone !!

We are all ..one day older !!!!!!!!! ROLL ON !!!*

youtube


----------



## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Hey, it's my puppy's birthday today, too!
He's one today

Steak


----------



## BobTheFish (May 31, 2011)

Bertha, did you really name him steak? Well done! I like rare names.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

*Happy Birthday…..good doggie !!*


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Special birthday shout-outs to…....(for now and on you actual b. days ! )

Mike
ryno
Hoosierwoodcraft
rance
usnret
Greedo
Helluvawreck
BobTheFish
Tootles
CessnaPilotBarry
tyskkvinna
cr1
smitty
Gregn
Timl.
Bertha
grizzman
AnthonyScira
itsmic
rance
shipwright
shaneA
dbhost
crank49
saddletramp
ArlinEastman
Moron
Anji2305
DYLgumwood
therookie
S2artDesigns
AronK.
David
MedicKen
David Grimes
Flyin636
KenBee 
WayneC
nate22 
David Craig
'Wiggy'
MrRon


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Well my other daughter just arrived so we are heading out for dinner and drinks and who knows what.

We all have plenty of baby sitting money , gambling money, even bail money !

so we are good-to-go .

Hope you all have a great evening !


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Its late and everyone's asleep except papa .

What a grand party ,everyone had a great time .

Ma petite fille ,une joie de mon coeur !

You may see her in my avitar .

She got her brains from her Mother

And her good looks from me !


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

When* will *A1Jim return ? I wonder


















youtube









Hang in there Jim , LJs misses you


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

*I'm really not looking forward to another day of this…........*









Artist :* J. W. Johnson*


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

still trying to Figure out the angle on the Geo Dome . If you've done a little research on it you see from the video that he using a jig or 'pattern' as he calls it to make the triangles. It only requires 2 . One for the Isosolies ( bad spelling ) and one for the equalateral triangles . No compound cuts he says . He's making a compound cut by first riping the bevel on the table saw and then completeing it with the hand saw . You could use a compound miter saw to cut the overlaps ,if you knew the degree to set it at .Its the same angle used when you rip the bevel angle on the TS , And again, thats the degree angle I'm searching for . I dont want to be cutting all the overlaps with ahand saw if im using 2×4s for the struts . A compound miter saw would save a lot of man power and time for the number of cuts required ( alot ) . I guess you could 'creep' up on this angle but that sounds time ccconsuming to be deconstructing 5 triangles and ripping them again on the TS and then putting them back together to test . I just dont want to do that, it seems unnessesary . Still working on it …............I think he is correct when he uses the word 'pattern'. Just as I'm sure that that angle is included in plans and it is not to his advantage to reveal it on the video . But we will discover it eventually because there are some pretty sharp minds on LJs . Going to wait a while longer before starting a seperate topic on this one . A trip to the library will probably come first , to see what I can dig up .
any thoughts ?


----------



## tbone (Apr 24, 2008)

To the *woodworker,* 'handmade' means one thing. To the *marketer*, 'handmade' means something completely different. The marketer tells us that "gluten-free" is better for us, and "antioxidents" are healthy, and "reflexology" can help the body fight cancer, and "handmade" products are of a superior quality.

To the marketer, these claims don't have to be *true * for them to sell us stuff, they just have to be *not false*.

By the way, Webster defines 'handmade' as made by hand, or a hand process.
It does NOT however, assume an overall superior quality. That only comes with craftsmanship. (maybe that can be the next topic)

Thank you for reading this hand-crafted response.


----------



## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Bob, yep, actually "Steak Potato". The AKC didn't find it as amusing as I did.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Busy day today . There was a large grass fire that burned about 250 acres that started about a mile from my subdivision . Voluntary evacuations , Sheriff's choppers , Water drop choppers , single prop spotter planes, and 12 Fire Depts. were responding .( I am not joking about this ). Very noisy afternoon . There was a wind direction in our favor though .so I was not overly concerned . They knocked it down in about 2 hours and fought the hot spots for another 2 hours . You have to admire the quick response and also all the emergency personnel who had to fight this fire in the 106 degree temperature of a super hot August afternoon. Every thing around here is a tender box…so dry…no rain in a month….40 + days with temperature highs in the 104 - 110 degree range…with heat indexes much higher . It's bleak…..weather wise .

I sent a pm to BritBoxmaker about the angle in Question for the Geodesic Dome . It could be a good project for someone needing a light easy to build structure for a greenhouse , storage , (shop ?). Easily dis-assembled and moved later on if need arises . Cheap , wind resistant etc. Hopefully We will hear back from the master of angles soon . I can't wait.

Heard something really great on the radio today while I was sitting in parking , waiting to pickup one of the kids up from an appointment , Beethoven's " Moonlight Sonata " ( all three movements , yeah ! ) and Mozart's 40th symphony , back to back . Had the speakers pounding on those !! so so nice . made my day .


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

I wonder what my LJ woodworking buddies are doing tonight .

Especially SARENA and MATHLETE?


















 youtube


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

* I AM REALLY DISAPPOINTED * that I could not

*
finish

My Birdhouse

Before the Deadline

Because I so would have WON !!!

I worked on it for weeks


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

*Now go back to that

Nickleback Tune

And this time I want you to sing along

Really LOUD , You Know You Want To .

Rock It KINDDA SCREAMY too , you'll feel better *


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

It was christmas time.
I wanted so badly to have a present to give her.We were so poor.
There were those beautiful long silver hair pins that she
had so admired at that quaint little shop on Rue-de-Lac .
I sold my gold pocket watch and purchased them.
You can imagine my surprise
When I opened the door of our cold small Paris apartment

She had cut off all her Hair !!
I knew this because she left a picture along with a note 
Saying she was flying away with her hairdresser to Brazil .


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

wow

Its 1 am and i just got back from the kitchen .

The baby's awake so we are all oinky on the birthday cake .

Trying to think of some good woodworking stories because that last joke was

a little stale and wouldn't even fly with my literary friends .

Hummmmmmmmmm…...

Well there was the time that guy cut his finger off on the

Table saw at work and started running all over the factory floor.

No body could catch him . Man, he was fast.! and freaked out !

It was like watching a star fullback running for a touchdown .

For weeks after , when we had a few beers after work, Everyone would describe their attempts ( including me) to tackle the guy ,like we were describing the Homecoming game , and we would all laugh our asses off…..!!!!
( yeah, found the finger , reattached , he was fine ) True story .


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Don't feel very sleepy after eating all that cake.

I think I'll catch an episode of Sonsofanarchy on tv .

In tonight's episode gemma goes north on a 'pharmecutical errand '

She's such a Florence Nightingale !

Goodnight and have a pleasant tomorrow .

Youtube


----------



## jimboy (Mar 1, 2011)

I prefer the phrase each item is hand crafted, or each item is individually hand made and to me a hand made item has no replica it is a one off because all sizes are different although they may look the same.
Does that make sense 
Jim


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

That compleatly makes sense jimboy….almost *too much* sense . I believe I mentioned my view on the 
'one off' aspect of things being handmaid . If you go back and look at my first comment to this thread
you will clearly see my way of thinking . I did not delve too deeply into the topic of 'replicas' because
,frankly, that word scares me . First , because Si-Fi movies* scare me* and they seem always to deal with the
subject of replicating *stuff*. Secondly , because every since the Australians started *cloning sheep*, in an attempt
to take over the* World Glove markets* and also force us all to* eat lamb chops* instead of* Rib-Eye steaks* , as God *intended* , ........where was I ? ....oh yeah ….....The Austrailians are *sneaky* , way un-nicer than Canuks . 
( except for Lazy Larry ) . And their* Libidos *are totally out of control !! *Every one* of them tried to
*mate* with *Us* while we were there* on vacation *! All day long they kept saying* 'mate this' and 'mate that*' 
*Whew* ! If* you* visit* that* place, *guard your junk and watch your cootchieburahs !!*
Where was I ?.........oh yeah…...


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Well , I'm out of ciggs,so I am headed to the store to by some more .
The kids took their fancy Toyotas and Mazdas and left hours ago
to go to work…....they are foolishly obsessive about that on weekdays .
I will have to drive* My older car*. It has a 260 A.C. ( roll down two windows and drive 60 miles per hour )
If it breaks down on the way, I could* die from the heat* . I aint scurd. I'm dumb but I aint scurd . Back in a bit .


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Well , back on topic about handmade stuff and woodworking . PAYGRADE

I hired on as a form setter on a large Dam project once . It paid really well . Some carpenter friends got me hired and I moved in with them at on old farmhouse about 2 miles from the site . It was bare bones . No one ever hung around there. It was just a place to store our tools and sleep during the week if you were too tired to make the long drive back to town . When you arrived at work , you parked , Then walked down an embankment about a 100' to begin work . We did a lot of nail pounding building the wooden forms for the rod busters , because sometimes it was impractical to get a large compressor to where we were working,or because a particular crane operator that was on that day was busy or hungover or just plain didn't like you and was messing with us so that we would fall behind (job politics ) Plus there was always a lot of traffic of people and machinery moving back and forth . You really had to pay attention and watch each other's back. I began to notice that the Rod Busters , even though it was harder work , they had alot more down time and it paid a few dollars more per hour. After a few weeks I managed to get in an apprentice gov program and joined the rod busters tying steel. I traded in my hammer and heavy toolbelt for a roll of wire and some rb pliers . I began working with some Cezch boys from Wisconsin who showed me the ropes . They were really friendy and were a hoot to boot ! We had already tied up a 60' column and my form setter buddies had framed it . I was up at the very top of it one day when our foreman dropped a plumbline down to one of the huge steel gates to see if it was centered before the pour. Nope . It was 1" inch off . The white hats started showing up with clipboards and that is never good sign , especially when there was a large volume of concrete to pour and vibrate out. The foreman went down and talked with them for a few min . he came back and gathered us all up. He seemed a little put out . He said " I'll show those *** so and so 's . He went and moved a crane and had us chain up the entire column and then he pulled that sucker over exactly 1" . I liked that guy . On Fridays , at quitin time ,three of them would sometimes change clothes in the parking lot. the would put on these funky blue suits with ruffled shirts and ties and polished shoes, because they were musicians and they were headed to play a dance or wedding . Where they found the energy to do that I don't know . Ohwell work hard ..play hard . After I got my journeyman's licence after 6 months , I started considering some more money and switching to something else on the project. I was talking to the foreman of the grounds and soil testing crew.I thought those guys had it made because it seemed like all they did all day was drive around in white pickups ,take soil samples ,and direct huge earth moving Cats and talk on the radio . He said he might have an opening in a couple of weeks. The following monday when I showed up for work we got some bad news . When a bad accident happens on a project the news spreads faster than you can spit. One of the grounds crew was out getting a soil sample. he had left his truck and walked out into the traffic lane to take a soil sample . A hugh Cat had come by at about 30 mph and run him over . it was over for him in a split second . It was pretty subdued on the job that day , no one had much to say . I put on my safety gear , climbed up about 20 feet on a spiderweb of rebar, which was gently swaying with the breeze , locked the harness in , lit up a smoke, and just thought about a few things . Never tied any more rebar after that job .


----------



## saddletramp (Mar 6, 2011)

It's been 2 hrs Moment, where are you? Just how far is it to that store? Don't leave us hanging here wondering if you made it back OK.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Hi saddle . Yeah , I made it ! There are some clouds around today , That usually means that the sun is not going to sear your skin off ,just that your lungs are going to fill up with hot water : ) Actually its not too bad today .
Hope your doing OK ….good to hear from you .


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

*A Bridge To Far*

I was doing a mock-up for a cabinet insert to try out some hrdwr and paint combos

the further i went with it , the less I liked it. ( pics are from 2009 )

I felt like I was playing blackjack , and kept hitting on 16 .

Sometimes it's better just to leave the casino and hit the buffet .

I called my oldest Daughter and asked her to bring her suburban over  youtube

I took it down to the Habitat for Humanity outlet store where they

sell donated items to see if they wanted it and they said sure.

I was really happy to be rid of it. It was a bridge to far


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

These big 'ole heavy chuncks of plaster were mass produced

But it was fun to restore them on a rainy day . awhh,* Romance*........I almost remember* that*

,


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Well the moon looks really nice at sunset today .

Just returned from the patio , glass of Appletons in hand .

I was thinking of buying a new Truck . What do* you* like ? Practicality or Flash ???

Truck Driving Music


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

SALVATION

SALVATION

SALVATION

SALVATION

SALVATION

SALVATION

SALVATION


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)




----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

*HAPPY TRAILS TO YOU

UNTIL WE MEET AGAIN

HAPPY TRAILS TO YOU

KEEP SMILING NOW TIL THEN…..

HAPPY TRAILS TO YOU

TIL WE MEET AGAIN*


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

*WE WANT YOU TO JOIN LAMBEURE JACQUESS TODAY* !!!


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

JOIN OUR FAMILY OF HAPPY AND FRIENDLY WOODWORKERS !!!








































































HELLO , MY NAME IS MOMENT…....PLEASE JOIN US ON LAMBURER JACQUESS…TODAY !!


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

We're getting close to the end


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

-by J W JOHNSON


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Almost there , oooooo







by- J W JOHNSON


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

GOODBYE , AND HAVE FUN PRETENDING..............................


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

GOODBYE TO THE SOUL SURVIVORS


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

MOMENTS ARE FLEETING


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

GOODBYE MI BELLA TERESA


----------



## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

Moment, might I suggest you start yourself a separate Forum thread to discuss Geo since it doesn't really belong here? You could even have a link from here to direct further Geo discussions there.  Just a thought. Actually, many of the recent posts don't really fit in here.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Rance , would you mind doing that for me , if you wish ? Thanks for responding to my thoughts on that.
I really dont fit in here either I think ,sometimes .* Goodbye , friend…and friends.*


----------



## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

You can do it Moment.  I know you can. Just go to HEEEEEEEEEEERE and choose "Designing Woodworking Projects". You go start the thread and I'll try finding the solution again in SU. It really has me intrigued. You might also add "Geodesic" for a tag.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

I'm a master carpenter and skilled woodworker, and I'm not going to let a self professed Bar-B-Q er of 
small children get the last pork chop on this topic , rest assured . : ) Just kidding* cr1 *: ) like U

*rance *, Thanks so much ! I'll try . I will be back later to explain all my comments , pictures , and music on this
thread to explain what I was trying to relate, thanks . Since my wife Teresa passed away , I think I have been tying to mask all my pain with humor . It's been hard , but being here at LJs has certainly helped . So don't take any offence everyone , it's just my way of staying sane (?) . Then *we *can move on to DW projects .


----------



## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

No offence taken at all Moment. Sorry to hear of your wife's passing. I can understand some of the pain.


----------



## Kennyg (Jan 15, 2011)

If it is production work it is not handmade, other than that it's all in the mind of the artisan. If you feel in your heart and feel no guilt then claim it as Handmade. If someone disagrees let them try and make it. You will always have someone wanting to argue a point.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

On my last day here and some final comments , Let's start with the national anthem . Have you noticed any
themes regarding these anthems ?  youtube


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

*J. W. Johnson* is a woodworker that I greatly admire .
















by-J.W.Johnson


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

What can one say about Livio De Marchi , that has not already been spoken ?


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Jiri Vyvial ( CZ ) began carving when was 40 years of age . The following pictures show some of his works .


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

A member of Lumber jocks and Creator and Editor of Woodcarving Club. (RUSSIA ) 
You can see his work here at LJs or visit him at" http://rezbaderevo.ru":http://rezbadervo.ru
Oleg has his hands full,









some times the debates over there about art are intense ! Russian woodworkers are very talented .


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

rezbaderevo.ru is an international site , so will see works by Ukraanians (sp) Georgians etc .
Their country of origin is listed with their works in the gallery


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Sometimes if you run into a creative block with your woodworking you may wish
to visit the world of ceramic artists and draw some inspiration and ideas from their work.
I have never met a Finnish artist ( Finland ) that bored me . I love the Finns !!

Mz. Keritu Horila ( Finland ) Makes me laugh with her 'reflective' works !


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

As well as her fellow F.R.A.M.E. member ….Mz. Hannu Riiknon


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Babbet Harvey (U.S.A. )


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

What's considered more beautiful …...A vultures' wing or an 'angels' wing ?
Before you answer you may want visit * Golbekli Tepe *and see the works of these
ancient Sculptors



























, that were carved before any known civilization existed . We have been creating art for a very long time.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Going to the patio for a smoke and a brandy . I'ts really humid…...wish it would rain…


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

This reminds me of a soul food place we use to eat at in Laffeyete . They would pile so much red beans
and rice and sausage on the plate that you could barely finish it .







and they would always be playn some nice* music like dis.....May have to go to hobby lobby and pick up some lumber like this , it's so affordable ! I like the Gal who does these (historyinwoodconcepts )
*


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

This darn Woodworking Skill Sharing is harder than I thought .

I'm a little *strapped for cash* this month so….........

I called the guys at EM in Houston and told them I was ready

for* my Interview *with* MsDebbieP .*

At first they seemed kinda interested .

When I told them I* wanted them* to write me a* check* for *5 grand*....they said….

*THERE WHASS NOO WAY , yah . *

*Sorry Debbie*


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)




----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)




----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)




----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)




----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Raphael-Moderne by-JW JOHNSON


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)




----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)




----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Someone had a bad dream once . Upon awaking He began to carve….

Simple wooden carvings to excise his demons .

He began to sell them at the market .

He soon began to paint them.

Others saw them and began to carve them….....






































































-Rodreques


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Its a HOT one


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Wish I could have finished this cabinet for* Her* . One day…perhaps…...........







( 2009 )

*"Sunset on Calm Waters"* by Moment


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

youtube








J W Johnson


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

I do not speak as the parrot speaks, nor of convention .
As I am aware that my opinion is worthless, then I gain worth .
As I am aware that I Know nothing , then my knowledge deepens.

When I Love , I am redeemed .
When I hate , I have lost myself , and I must regain the moment .

Between Birth and Death…..
Always Questions…
Soon and Late .

When moments are beautiful , I celebrate their fragility and complexity , happily .
When moments are raw , I embrace their pain and endure .

Mirrors passing beyond our eyes…..
They ebb and flow with the tides and stars ….for us All .

Between Birth and Death..
Always , Always Question .

I sit in a quiet place and relax.
I close my eyes and try to imagine a color that does not exist.

I breath calmly , trying to prevent any thoughts from entering
My conscious mind …........unaware of moments .


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

*Goodnight *


----------



## Porchfish (Jun 20, 2011)

Ryno is spot on , no other discussion is necessary . Hope the month was good for you, cooler weather just around the corner, and that will be nice ! And moment has provided the must humbling of experiences ! Thank you kind sir I am , as always, inspired by your insight and thank you for the "sunset on calm waters" , they will always be yours first. ours second.
don s. havana fl. porchfish studio


----------



## bobsmyuncle (Jan 12, 2011)

I see this has a lot responses.

In the Arts & Crafts movement of the late 19th century, someone (Ruskin or Morris?) worried about the craftsman become merely a machine attendant.

David Pye, in his The Nature and Art of Workmanship devotes a whole book to this subject.

His thesis is:

"In the workmanship of certainty the result of every operation during production has been predetermined and is outside the control of the operative once production starts.

In the workmanship of risk the result of every operation during production is determined by the workman as he works and its outcome depends wholly or largely on his care, judgement and dexterity."


----------



## itsmic (Nov 11, 2009)

*"In the workmanship of certainty the result of every operation during production has been predetermined and is outside the control of the operative once production starts.*

*In the workmanship of risk the result of every operation during production is determined by the workman as he works and its outcome depends wholly or largely on his care, judgement and dexterity."*

Brovo- This is a Great way to express what everyone has been saying, Thanks bobsmyuncle for posting


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)




----------



## WoodNuts (Apr 30, 2010)

If I put my hands on it, it is hand made…


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

I like that feeling of what it means to you, WoodNuts . Very well spoken . Nice to hear .


----------



## Phil277 (Jan 15, 2012)

Hi, my name is Phil and I am a CNC user. I have been a CNC user for 6 years and I am addicted.
When I was teaching high school wood shop I was asked by my principal " is there a way to introduce modern technology in our school woodshop" Right away I said a CNC router is the way to go. I'll admit that I didn't know much about CNC routers at the time. I did some research and we bought a small Shopbot. None of the projects my students did were entirely done on the CNC. We still used the table saw, jointer, planer, drill press, band saw etc. just as much as ever. However now my students could embellish their work with carvings. They loved it. Their creativity level reached new heights. 
When I retired I had to have a CNC router. There is no doubt that items that are mass produced, where all of the measuring, cutting etc. is done by the machine, are not hand made. But the craftsmanship is still there in building a clock, jewelry box and other projects and also incorporates CNC carving. 
I posted this jewelry box recently http://lumberjocks.com/projects/60383 The box itself is as much handmade as many of the beautiful projects shown on this forum. The only difference is that the carving that I do not have the skill to do is made by CNC. I have been learning to hand carve for three years now and I can't come close to the work I've seen by experienced, talented handcarvers like this one http://lumberjocks.com/projects/60403.
I'd be happy to accept that my jewelry box is mostly handmade.


----------

