# 120v & 240v outlets on the same circuit



## rbrjr1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Here is what I'm thinking about as I re-wire my shop (lets brainstorm and see if we can't make this work). 
*SHOP DATA POINTS:*
-Shop is 25' wire run from the panel
-Lighting is 3ea 8' fluorescent double tube fixtures (T12 VHOs)
-Shop is very small 11'X22' and used for all kinds of DIY tasks, not just woodworking
-No dedicated dust collection in place (shop vacs) but I'd like to one day
- eventual dust collection would be something like Shop]SHOP FOX W1826 Fox W1826 (3.5A @240v) and would be wired into the same circuit as the 240v/120v saw station
-Table saw station contains both Table Saw (240v?) and Router Table insert (120v)
-Table saw is 2hp (9.3A @240v)
-Router is 3.25hp ([email protected])

I have 2ea 1" breaker "spaces" in my panel (approximately 25' wire length from my shop). Right now, each of the two spaces have been filled with 1/2" breakers giving me 4 (20A)circuits to the shop. 
-1 for lights, 
-1 for a bank of outlets at my bench (includes small air compressor, battery chargers, etc). 
-1 I've used to power a tankless water heater and chest freezer (yes, I know the WH should really be on a dedicated circuit). 
-1 spare.

*SO:*
I'm thinking about wiring my table saw station to use a 240v, 4 wire extension cord which will provide power to both the router and the table saw (I'd never use them both simultaneously, of course). 
I'd wire the outlet at the table saw station like THIS:










which does essentially THIS at the panel (bottom 10/3 illustration):










I'd use a 240v/20A double pole 1" breaker in the box similar to THIS:










If possible, I'd like to work within the confines of a single circuit for 120v outlets, a single circuit for the tankless/freezer, and this double pole/two circuit configuration described above for the table saw / router station.. 
(I could move the lights over to the "garage lights" circuit as they replaced the existing lighting.)
I know the total current on the 20A breaker cannot be more than 20A (using any combo of 120v or 240v tools) at any given time.

so.. 
Tell me what I'm not thinking about.. 
What am I missing?
Why wouldn't this work ? 
Has anyone else done something similar?


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

If I read you properly, you want to leverage a 10/3 to have both 120 & 240 in same line. As long as not using both at same time would work. Depending on municipality, that would be frowned upon as they want singles.

I have a 10/3 for my TS as it needs 120 & 240, and I wanted a 20A outlet for my hand tools that draw a lot. Unfortunately my basement shop (prebuilt) only has 15A outlets. Your problem is going to be you won't be able to find 30A outlet for 120. At least I could not.

I'm assuming you comfortable wiring your panel. Be careful you can get you killed if not.

It comes down to load. Do the math, should work.


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## TajBuilder (Aug 6, 2008)

I used the configuration in your diagram for essentially the same machines without a problem. But I'd consider using the two pole breaker slot to add a sub-panel so you're not limited for future expansion and you can kill the power to all your machines if you have kids around. Depending on the sub-panel, you may also need to purchase a bus bar because it shouldn't be bonded.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Will it work. Yes.

Is it proper. No.

Strictly for general purpose recepts. Yes.

For a 250v load and general purpose recepts. No.


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## rbrjr1 (Nov 2, 2017)

> Your problem is going to be you won t be able to find 30A outlet for 120. At least I could not.
> - bonesbr549


I wont need a 30a outlet for the 120, if you look closely, the receptacle in the picture is 240v on the upper and 120v on the lower.

I am probably going to use a 20A breaker instead of a 30A but I will run 10/3 conductor to the shop wall and build a 10/3 "extension cord" for the table saw station that will plug into the wall with a twist lock plug

yes sir, I'm comfortably cautious around electricity, residential loads, anyway.



> Strictly for general purpose recepts. Yes.
> For a 250v load and general purpose recepts. No.
> - TheFridge


im confused, how is my setup different than for what the outlet was intended?
it's an outlet that has 240v and 110v sockets, how could it NOT be used for both 240v and general purpose at the same time?

the diagram is from an air conditioning website for AC units that pull both standard voltage and high voltage at the same machine, so I'm confused as to your reply.


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## sawdustdad (Dec 23, 2015)

I would put a 2 pole 30A breaker in the panel, run 10/3 w/ground to a sub panel in the shop. Then run the necessary circuits from there. Or, better yet, step it up to 8/3 and a 40A breaker. If you are going to the effort, might as well think ahead for future needs.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

AFAIK, in order to use that type outlet, you need a 3 conductor wire that can carry 2 or more circuits (not sure of terminology what I mean is 3 hots, a neutral and ground). In this case, it would be 2 circuits supplied by one double pole (240V) and single pole (120V) breaker.

If you don't have enough room, why not install a small subpanel or see if you can free up some slots using split 120 v breakers?

BTW 10 gauge wire is rated for 30A up to 5HP motors why would you use that on a 20A circuit?

As always, my advice is : CHECK WITH AN ELECTRICIAN, not LJ's.


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

I agree with sawdustdad but go big or go home in my book. I have found you almost never have enough power over time.
To me, running all this convoluted wiring to enable the use of one 240 VAC item is workable, but shaky and limits your future.

If you have four slots in your main breaker box, and that box is a standard 200 amp residential box, I would simply put in a 60 amp 240 VAC breaker, (two slots), run a single wire, 240VAC 6/3, (or 6/4 if you don't have a separate ground spike in the garage) to a sub panel, and that will give you about 60 amps of whatever power you want at the sub panel inside the shop.

You can run 120 VAC circuits and 240 VAC circuits safely from that sub depending on how many slots are in the sub. And it probably would pass code. Most of the usual ones I have seen are 8 slots. That is twice what you are trying to work with now. You'll spend the money now, or spend the money later.

I'd run the heavier wire, especially if it is more difficult run, since you don't want to run out of power at a later date and have to run that wire all over again.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

While it will *function *as you diagrammed, it's *not *safe (nor code compliant) to have 120V and 240V loads on the same circuit. If you're out of space in your panel, use one of the slots to install a subpanel for the shop. Use 8AWG wire and a 40A breaker so you'll have plenty of capacity in the shop area. 8AWG is a huge pain to work with, but it's not impossible.


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## WhyMe (Feb 15, 2014)

> While it will *function *as you diagrammed, it s *not *safe (nor code compliant) to have 120V and 240V loads on the same circuit. If you re out of space in your panel, use one of the slots to install a subpanel for the shop. Use 8AWG wire and a 40A breaker so you ll have plenty of capacity in the shop area. 8AWG is a huge pain to work with, but it s not impossible.
> 
> - jonah


There is no code restriction of having 120V and 240V loads on the same circuit. The main thing is the 240V and 120V outlets be the same amp rating which in this case is 20A max. The breaker must be a double pole common trip breaker if serving both line-to-line and line-to-neutral loads. The problem is if this is a garage or shop with the floor at or below grade the 120V outlets need to be GFCI protected and that is a problem with a multiwire branch circuit. GFCI cannot share a neutral.


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## richardchaos (May 12, 2017)

I will suggest this. Have a dedicated circuit for the following,,,,, Table saw, compressor, well heck every large standalone!


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## alittleoff (Nov 27, 2014)

When you put a 2 pole breaker on a single 110 volt circuit, you run the risk of the breaker not triping. The breakers are tied together with a tie bar and an internal connection.Each recptical should be controlled by an individual breaker to be right. If you cut the tie bar on the 2 pole breaker the 220 circuit might not trip. All being said It will work but its not ithe right way to do it. Personally I'd wire the 220 on a circuit by itself and clear up another space by using more half or thin breakers for the 110 circuit and everything would be right.
Gerald


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## TajBuilder (Aug 6, 2008)

> When you put a 2 pole breaker on a single 110 volt circuit, you run the risk of the breaker not triping. The breakers are tied together with a tie bar and an internal connection.Each recptical should be controlled by an individual breaker to be right. If you cut the tie bar on the 2 pole breaker the 220 circuit might not trip. All being said It will work but its not ithe right way to do it. Personally I d wire the 220 on a circuit by itself and clear up another space by using more half or thin breakers for the 110 circuit and everything would be right.
> Gerald
> 
> - alittleoff


I believe you are mistaken about there being "an internal connection" because 2 pole breakers are designed so that if one leg trips both will trip. Another common example is when 12/3 wire is run to wire separate circuits for a dishwasher and garbage disposal from the same duplex outlet where the bond is broken on the hot side and the neutral is shared. This is to make the entire box cold if one appliance trips. If separate single pole breakers are used, they are required to have a bar that ties them together which is the same thing a double pole breaker does.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

> As always, my advice is : CHECK WITH AN ELECTRICIAN, not LJ s.
> 
> - rwe2156


17 years. Just saying.

I'll dig up the article. Might take a bit.


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## TajBuilder (Aug 6, 2008)

> If I read you properly, you want to leverage a 10/3 to have both 120 & 240 in same line. As long as not using both at same time would work. Depending on municipality, that would be frowned upon as they want singles.
> 
> I have a 10/3 for my TS as it needs 120 & 240, and I wanted a 20A outlet for my hand tools that draw a lot. Unfortunately my basement shop (prebuilt) only has 15A outlets. Your problem is going to be you won t be able to find 30A outlet for 120. At least I could not.
> 
> - bonesbr549


You are correct in assuming that 30 amp breakers require 30 amp outlets. However, in a previous LJ forum it was pointed out that some (perhaps most?) jurisdictions also interpret the code to be that you can only have one 30 amp outlet per 30 amp breaker. But you may still want to run 10/3 wire with a 20 amp breaker if you need both 120 and 240 going to the same machine to keep the loads balanced. I use this configuration for my lathe where 240 supplies the VFD and each 120 leg supplies a duplex outlet for lights and a hand sander. The lights pull juice from one leg and the sander pulls juice from the other. The neutral is shared.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Here's one. Branch circuits- 210.4© a multi wire branch circuit shall supply only to neutral loads.

The exceptions don't apply. This is the first one I found that said no.


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## WhyMe (Feb 15, 2014)

You guys do not know what you are talking about.



> When you put a 2 pole breaker on a single 110 volt circuit, you run the risk of the breaker not triping. The breakers are tied together with a tie bar and an internal connection.Each recptical should be controlled by an individual breaker to be right. If you cut the tie bar on the 2 pole breaker the 220 circuit might not trip. All being said It will work but its not ithe right way to do it. Personally I d wire the 220 on a circuit by itself and clear up another space by using more half or thin breakers for the 110 circuit and everything would be right.
> Gerald
> 
> - alittleoff


A common trip double pole breaker will trip if either one of the legs exceeds the rated amperage. Two single pole breakers with a handle tie are independent trip and will trip only the one breaker that is overloaded, but they are not to be used on a multiwire circuit that supplies both line-to-line and line to neutral loads.



> Here s one. Branch circuits- 210.4© a multi wire branch circuit shall supply only to neutral loads.
> 
> The exceptions don t apply. This is the first one I found that said no.
> 
> - TheFridge


Multibranch circuits can supply both line-to-line and line to neutral loads, but a common trip breaker must be used. 210-4( C ) exception #2 does apply.


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## TajBuilder (Aug 6, 2008)

> You guys do not know what you are talking about
> 
> A common trip double pole breaker will trip if either one of the legs exceeds the rated amperage. Two single pole breakers with a handle tie are independent trip and will trip only the one breaker that is overloaded, but they are not to be used on a multiwire circuit that supplies both line-to-line and line to neutral loads.
> 
> - WhyMe


I stand corrected. Since this is the case, is there ever a time when using 12/3 wire for two 120 v circuits that a tie bar across two single pole breakers (not a single slot tandem breaker) is preferable to a common trip double pole breaker? Am I correct in assuming that if only one single pole breaker trips when a tie bar is used the second single pole breaker will still disconnect?


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## WhyMe (Feb 15, 2014)

The point of using two single pole breakers with a handle tie is so if one breaker trips it doesn't also trip the other breaker. The handle tie is for the disconnect requirement for servicing.


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

I would like for all you naysayers who say the configuration is inadvisable or dangerous to show me where it violates the NEC or is in any way unsafe. I have seen this configuration done before and plan to use it in my new shop. Just because you haven't seen it before, don't assume it is incorrect. If it were unsafe or illegal, do you really think that a huge company like Leviton would make such a receptacle?


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

More precisely it doesn't say it can't be done not necessarily that it can. It's kinda grey. I thought I found something at one time that told me I couldn't do it (when trying to do something exactly like the OP mentions, on a job)

I viewed that article as either or and not both at first. Apparently this is a widely discussed topic  hell, it'll make rewiring my shop easier.

Edit: One listed duplex 6-20 is a different than supplying 2 or 3 different voltage type recepts on multi wire circuit.

The breakers have to have to be tied in some fashion regardless so I don't really think there's any issue whatsoever with that.

2nd edit: I just noticed that combo recept. If I did, the only thing I would've would be "awesome". I plan on getting me a couple myself. It's a listed assembly I assume. I was thinking along the line of receptacles 2 different voltages.


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## TajBuilder (Aug 6, 2008)

> The point of using two single pole breakers with a handle tie is so if one breaker trips it doesn t also trip the other breaker. The handle tie is for the disconnect requirement for servicing.
> 
> - WhyMe


So in the example above, if the garbage disposal trips the dishwasher still works?


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## WhyMe (Feb 15, 2014)

Voltage differences aren't a problem until they exceed 300V, then a barrier is needed between devices. This is not a concern with 120/240V single phase.


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## WhyMe (Feb 15, 2014)

> The point of using two single pole breakers with a handle tie is so if one breaker trips it doesn t also trip the other breaker. The handle tie is for the disconnect requirement for servicing.
> 
> - WhyMe
> 
> ...


Exactly.


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## TajBuilder (Aug 6, 2008)

> I would like for all you naysayers who say the configuration is inadvisable or dangerous to show me where it violates the NEC or is in any way unsafe. I have seen this configuration done before and plan to use it in my new shop. Just because you haven t seen it before, don t assume it is incorrect. If it were unsafe or illegal, do you really think that a huge company like Leviton would make such a receptacle?
> 
> - ArtMann


When I wired my lathe using 10/3 wire with 240v going to the VFD and 120v going to the lights and accessory outlets I had several friends express a concern that this could interfere with the operation of the VFD because of the potential for additional loads leading to a trip. Thus far I haven't had a problem but I'm only running a 1 hp motor on my lathe that also has a reeves drive to help reduce the load. However, if I were to upgrade to a larger motor I would reconsider my choice. If I were to start over, I'd use two strands of 12/2 wire and keep everything separate for the above reason and also because 10/3 romex is such a pain to work.

As for the legal issues, I think some of the confusion comes from using 12/3 wire for two circuits using a 240v/120v combination (which is what the Leviton receptacle does) vs using 12/3 wire for two circuits using a 120v/120v combination on a standard 120v duplex outlet where the common hot bus has been broken and the neutral is shared. The former is not a problem because each 120v leg occupies a separate slot with the 240v breaker in the panel. However, the second situation is problematic if a tandem breaker (two 120v breakers sharing a single slot) is used because two hot wires cannot share a neutral in a single slot. In this situation a 240v common breaker or two 120v single breakers in their own slots with a tie bar between them is required.


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## altiplano (Mar 4, 2017)

You can have a multiwire branch circuit with your 10/3 wire allowing you 1×220v and 2×110v with each hot sharing the neutral.

You can use the 110's simultaneously with the 220 respecting the amperage limit of your circuit.

I would echo though that a 30amp breaker with your 10/3 feeding a subpanel may be more practical and give you more potential capacity.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Well you've got some information to go on from at least one licensed electrician. I'll add my two cents, if it's not done by a licensed electrician (and you have proof) then if a fire were to occur your insurance company will see that alone as reason enough not to cover any damages.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Sometimes I think that people post question like this just to see the arguments and to see how many different ways people can agree and disagree. Am I the only one that thinks the photo of the OP looks like Satan? LOL.

I find it curious that no one has pointed out that the combination receptacle in the diagram in OP is a 15 amp not a 20 amp receptacle as the diagram is labeled. If you are going to do that, you at least need one of these.

BTW, I looked at the installation instructions for the 15 AMP one that is displayed above and it shows one configuration exactly as he described above-a 4 wire, with 2 hot, 1 neutral and a ground. I am not an electrician but presumably that means that means it is not a problem. Whether it is a good idea to run an extension cord to power this receptacle may be another question. Discuss amongst yourselves. ;-)


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Yeah it can get stupid sometimes but also insightful as well.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

Those combo receptacles have always seemed like a terrible idea to me. It would be pathetically easy to plug a tool into the wrong outlet and (depending on the tool) damage it.

I've only ever heard of them used where you feed each outlet with a separate circuit.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

That's why they have different plug prong arrangements for different voltages.


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## rbrjr1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Some good replies above, I'm on my phone but will respond to them when I get to the house.

The photo is Atlas, I'm an Ayn Rand fan.


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## TajBuilder (Aug 6, 2008)

> Well you ve got some information to go on from at least one licensed electrician. I ll add my two cents, if it s not done by a licensed electrician (and you have proof) then if a fire were to occur your insurance company will see that alone as reason enough not to cover any damages.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


Pull a permit for the same reason. That little inspection sticker can be worth its weight in gold.


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## WhyMe (Feb 15, 2014)

> ..........
> I find it curious that no one has pointed out that the combination receptacle in the diagram in OP is a 15 amp not a 20 amp receptacle as the diagram is labeled. If you are going to do that, you at least need one of these.
> 
> - Lazyman


Here we go again with misinformation….. The pass through voltage rating on that outlet is 20A. The blade configuration for the 120V side only allows for a 15A style plug to be inserted. But, on multiple outlet circuits it is code compliant to use 15A outlets on a 20A circuit. You don't need the 120V outlet with the sideways blade because hardly, if any, homeowner equipment uses a true 20A plug.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

I was only looking at the online specs and it says that the maximum is 15 amps. Does that mean it can handle 20?

Edit: And by pass through I assume you mean where you sort of daisy chain receptacles from one place to another? It doesn't appear to have terminals for doing that so it would seem that pass-through would not be an option here?


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

No.


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## WhyMe (Feb 15, 2014)

> I was just l looking at the online specs and it says that the maximum is 15 amps. Does that mean it can handle 20?
> 
> - Lazyman


As Fridge said, no. That outlet can only supply 15A appliances/equipment. The max amp circuit that the outlet can be used on is 20A because it's a duplex. If it was a single (one) outlet on a 20A circuit then the outlet would need to be 20A.

There are side terminals for adding additional outlets and or continuing the circuit.


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## GR8HUNTER (Jun 13, 2016)

you can hook up table saw like that …..as long as you only cut alder wood LMAO :<))


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

> That s why they have different plug prong arrangements for different voltages.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


The one in the original post has different prongs, but the one linked in a later post had two identical arrangements.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

I understand that the plug/prong configuration limits each appliance to 15A, but if he has one 15A labeled duplex receptacle on this circuit (ignoring the whole extension cord thing for the moment), your recommendation is to use a 20A breaker on it?

When I have looked in the past, the recommendation I have seen is that if you have one receptacle, either duplex or single, your breaker should be the same as the labeled rating on that receptacle, not higher. Might be overkill for just one duplex?


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## WhyMe (Feb 15, 2014)

> I understand that the plug/prong configuration limits each appliance to 15A, but if he has one 15A labeled duplex receptacle on this circuit (ignoring the whole extension cord thing for the moment), your recommendation is to use a 20A breaker on it?
> 
> When I have looked in the past, the recommendation I have seen is that if you have one receptacle, either duplex or single, your breaker should be the same as the labeled rating on that receptacle, not higher. Might be overkill for just one duplex?
> 
> - Lazyman


It's best to have outlet circuits be 20A, but you only need to use 15A outlets when using a duplex receptacle. A duplex is considered as two outlets. The NEC allows 15A duplex outlets on a 20A circuit. When it's a single outlet (not duplex) the outlet has to be rated the same as the circuit. For single receptacle see NEC 210.21(B)(1), for multiple receptacles see NEC 210,21(B)(3).


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

> The one in the original post has different prongs, but the one linked in a later post had two identical arrangements.
> 
> - jonah


Similar, not identical.


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## rbrjr1 (Nov 2, 2017)

I've found multiple conversations about this topic and they all essentially mimic this thread, half a dozen saying it's "ok but not advisable", a handful of people saying that it's good to go and they have either installed circuits like this in the past for clients or have them installed at their shop with no issues for "years".

and half a dozen size arguments as to whether the links are correct, LOL.

the only real issue that I see is my concept of using a "locking plug" to extend the 120v/240v circuit to the mobile table saw station (I would use 30A plug/outlet for that connection and plan on 10/3 wire for my extension cord).

I have access to commercial master electricians as I've been a general contractor for about 20 years. I'll talk with one of them about it on monday.

On a side note, my panel has 40A and 30A circuits that are effectively not used (Electric Range and Dryer but our house is all gas), so I will probably just abandon the house wiring and run my circuit off one of these spaces in the panel. 
-which should eliminate all the "breaker" side arguments in this thread..


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Thanks for the info. Now consider the rest of his scenario. He wants to run this duplex outlet at the end of an extension cord presumably plugged into a single 20A 220v receptacle. He also wants to eventually plug both the 9.3A table saw and a 3.5A 220V (or 7A 110v if he wants to use the same receptacle?) dust collector into this setup. Is he still good, including with motor surges for startup, etc.? He didn't say how long or what gauge the extension cord would be. I assume that would make a difference if the length was fairly long.

Also, 2005 NEC 210.21(B)(1) says the maximum load for a cord and plug connected load on a 15A rated receptacle is 12A. Is that the 80% rule? Does that apply here and does that mean that his 9.2A + 3.5A (12.7A) saw/DC combination would require a 20A receptacle which has a maximum load of 16A?


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## rbrjr1 (Nov 2, 2017)

> Thanks for the info. Now consider the rest of his scenario. He wants to run this duplex outlet at the end of an extension cord presumably plugged into a single 20A 220v receptacle. He also wants to eventually plug both the 9.3A table saw and a 3.5A 220V (or 7A 110v if he wants to use the same receptacle?) dust collector into this setup. Is he still good, including with motor surges for startup, etc.? He didn t say how long or what gauge the extension cord would be. I assume that would make a difference if the length was fairly long.
> 
> Also, 2005 NEC 210.21(B)(1) says the maximum load for a cord and plug connected load on a 15A rated receptacle is 12A. Is that the 80% rule? Does that apply here and does that mean that his 9.2A + 3.5A (12.7A) saw/DC combination would require a 20A receptacle which has a maximum load of 16A?
> 
> - Lazyman


this post is accurate as to my intentions, however, I will not use any 15A receptacles, everything on the 120v side will be 20A and 20A on the 240v side as well. 
Although, the more i think about it, I'll probably just wire a double gang box (off the extension cord, at the TS station) and use a single flat spade 20A outlet for the table saw and a standard, commercial grade 20A outlet for the router. If I go this route, I wont need to wire the dust collection into the same circuit (which technically, I shouldn't do anyway).

I looked into a 70A subpanel, but I'm just not interested in spending that kind of money (over $100 when i stopped counting) and it was actually limited to 2 spaces/4 tandem circuits. I just dont have the need with the 3ea 20A circuits run to the shop now.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

> Thanks for the info. Now consider the rest of his scenario. He wants to run this duplex outlet at the end of an extension cord presumably plugged into a single 20A 220v receptacle. He also wants to eventually plug both the 9.3A table saw and a 3.5A 220V (or 7A 110v if he wants to use the same receptacle?) dust collector into this setup. Is he still good, including with motor surges for startup, etc.? He didn t say how long or what gauge the extension cord would be. I assume that would make a difference if the length was fairly long.
> 
> Also, 2005 NEC 210.21(B)(1) says the maximum load for a cord and plug connected load on a 15A rated receptacle is 12A. Is that the 80% rule? Does that apply here and does that mean that his 9.2A + 3.5A (12.7A) saw/DC combination would require a 20A receptacle which has a maximum load of 16A?
> 
> - Lazyman


Yep.


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## TajBuilder (Aug 6, 2008)

> I looked into a 70A subpanel, but I m just not interested in spending that kind of money (over $100 when i stopped counting) and it was actually limited to 2 spaces/4 tandem circuits. I just dont have the need with the 3ea 20A circuits run to the shop now.
> 
> - rbrjr1


Check out this 20 space 100 amp panel that comes with 5 breakers for under $60.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-PowerMark-Gold-100-Amp-20-Space-20-Circuit-Indoor-Main-Breaker-Value-Kit-TM2010CCU2K/100115205


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## rbrjr1 (Nov 2, 2017)

> Check out this 20 space 100 amp panel that comes with 5 breakers for under $60.
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-PowerMark-Gold-100-Amp-20-Space-20-Circuit-Indoor-Main-Breaker-Value-Kit-TM2010CCU2K/100115205
> - Roy Turbett


subpanel is the cheap part, the feeder and sub breaker in the main panel would be another $120 (wire alone will cost over $80)
plus, Ive already got a full panel with the majority of the spaces being 1/2" breakers. Im not sure I could pull another 100A off the panel.

this way, all I will spend is the $60 for the 10/3 and $20 for a new double pole 20A breaker.


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## rbrjr1 (Nov 2, 2017)

update.. lol

in 2018 we renovated and I ended up using the extra "earmarked" spaces in the panel for the renovation. I dropped a 70A subpanel in using the "electric range" circuit space in my original panel. When the subpanel was added, I ran some shop circuits from it (removing their home runs from the house panel). NOW, I'm looking to finalize this work before spring of upgrading the wiring in the shop.

[controversy re-introduced lol ]
In researching the receptacle, I also have found that the dual voltage (20A) outlet I anticipate having in the table saw station CAN BE fed from two different circuits. The receptacle provides for the separation of it's 120v feed and it's 240v feed to actually have two separate originating circuits (OR to pull from the same 240v wiring). The 240v circuit will come from a multi-wire branch circuit feeding other 240v machines, and the 120v circuit will come from a 120v circuit feeding other 120v machines. I will run two extension cords to the saw station which have been taped/shrinktubed together..


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