# Rockwell/ Delta Model 46-400 lathe 1960's vintage recommendations



## woodman44

Does anyone have any experience or knowledge about this lathe? It has a 12" swing ( 16" over the gap) x 38" bed and variable speed 300 - 3,000 rpm with 1 HP motor and wired for 230 volts.

This would be my first lathe. I plan to turn bowls from logs and salt & peeper mills to start.

Any helpful comments are appreciated.

Ken


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## wormil

I only know them by reputation of being exceptional machines.


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## Wildwood

Ken, this Delta and Gen 260 you are interested in are great lathes. Only way to know if any used lathe any good is go look at them. See and hear lathe run from slowest to highest speed without lots of strange noises. With lathe off, checking spindle is tight and rotates freely, no side to side movement. With drive center in headstock, live center in tailstock check alignment. Dose the tailstock lock down tightly and quill operate smoothly. If see worn belts, may as well think about bearing replacement as well.

Missing or broken components (tailstocks, tool rest base) can be hard to find. I know they do not make the Gen 260 anymore, think it is true of the Delta.

Price should always be based upon condition. Be wary of sellers that have no time for you to test drive the lathe or willing to negotiate.

While quality of both lathes superior to most of China imports sold today there is no warranty or ready source of parts or components. My way of saying would be hard press to almost new lathe price.

Right now can buy a Jet 1221 lathe for $800, lathe speed on that lathe is EVS vice Reeves drive. That lathe will turn everything you want. So those old lathes in fair to good conditions should not cost that much!


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## wormil

The Jet 1221 is not in the same league as a 46-400, it's like comparing a benchtop saw to a Unisaw.


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## Wildwood

Rick M, you are right Jet is not in the same league as either Delta or General lathes Ken has asked about. Still, Ken can turn everything he mentioned on that Jet. Point trying to make all about dollars, warranties, vise buying where is as is!

I do know Ken has been asking about used Nova 1624-44. I know reconditioned Nova 1624-44 sell for about $950. Have seen a few used 1624 lathes selling for $750. A new Jet might be in the ballpark for a first lathe.

Without knowing how well Delta or General actually run, or if any optional tools thrown in cannot advise someone buy one or the other.

This lathe on E-Bay at the right price definitely deserves his attention. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delta-Rockwell-12-Heavy-Duty-Wood-Lathe/121210149282?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D2587764116539157495%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D350805748089%26

http://www.ereplacementparts.com/delta-46400-type-1634-wood-lathe-parts-c-3275_9659_12797.html


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## woodman44

Rick & Bill,

The lathe on Ebay is the lathe I was asking about. Actually I found it on Craigslist before making my inquiry to the forum. It is about 1+ hour from me and his asking price is $ 695. I don't think it has any additional accessories such as chucks, gouges, etc.

Is this a fair price if it checks out mechanically? What about the 230 volt electrical, will it operate on my residential 110 volt circuitry or will I have to invest in a converter? If so, do you know what I should budget for the conversion?

I assume that Rockwell/Delta 46-400 and the General 260 are significantly better that the Jet 1221, correct?

Thanks,
Ken


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## Planeman40

If you live in a residential area in the USA you should have access to 110 volts and 220 volts *SINGLE PHASE*. If the motor on the lathe says *THREE PHASE* you will not be able to run the lathe except in an industrial area with THREE PHASE current unless you install a phase converter (kinda expensive). If the motor says SINGLE PHASE 220 volts, you can run it off a 220 volt stove or washer-dryer circuit or have an electrician install an circuit for you.

For what it is worth, a residential 220 volt circuit is simply made up of two 110 volt circuits that are 180 degrees out of phase.

Planeman


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## wormil

A 46-400 is a great lathe for someone willing to work on vintage machines. Looks like it's been repainted and may have been partially restored. I would quiz the seller to see if it has problems. After thinking about it I'm pretty sure these are the same lathes we used in my HS shop class, if so, they were awesome machines. But keep in mind they are 50-60 years old and may require bearings or replacement control cards. Lathes are simple though. It's not the kind of machine you buy just because you want a lathe but tuned up it will be the last lathe you buy (unless you need a bigger one). As for price, who knows. When you get into vintage machines there are a lot of variables.

I don't know anything about the General.


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## TheDane

We had one of these in the shop where I took a woodturning class a few years ago. It was a solid machine, but they were always having problems with the Reeves drive (some students didn't get that you can't change speed without the lathe running).

About 6 months ago, our local tech school was cleaning out a garage where they had some old equipment stored. Since they have contemporary machines (8-PM3520B's and 4-Delta 46-460's) there was no place for it in the shop. They put it up for sale as surplus equipment … one of our club members bought it for $50. Last I heard was that they still don't have it running yet.

The Jet Wildwood mentioned and the Delta 46-460 (which is what I have) are newer technology machines. In my opinion it comes down to what you want to do: spend your time working on an old machine, or spend your time spinning wood.


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## Wildwood

Planeman40 answered the electrical side of your question. Definitely need an electrician to check your circuit breaker box. Advise you whether lathe motor can run on house current. You could always swap out motors, but not sure worth the cost or smartest move.

Not sure, this Delta lathe worth $695 if have to include upgrading house electricity or swapping out motors in total cost. It would be true for that General 260 lathe.

The only inexpensive starter level full size would recommend you take a look at if have a store near you.

http://www.harborfreight.com/12-inch-x-33-3-8-eighth-inch-wood-lathe-with-reversible-head-34706.html

You can read reviews posted at the site. Yes, change speeds while lathe is running (reeves drive). Will have to reinforce the stand if want to turn out of balanced pieces.


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## woodman44

Bill,

Thanks for your great advice. I will talk to my electrician that wired a 220 outlet for me in my garage for my wife's pottery kiln to see if the Delta lathe which supposedly has 230 volt circuitry is compatible with my existing plug. If I need additional wiring or a different motor, I will take your suggestion and pass on the Delta 46-400.

With regard to the HF lathe you mentioned. Actually I bought one and I was going to return it before I even open the box based on a member of my turning club that advised against it. He said that even though it looks like a Jet clone, it does not come close to the quality control and some of the components that Jet lathes have. It requires many more adjustments and other somewhat annoying issues based on one they tried out in the club in the past.

Ken


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## Wildwood

Have to understand, many woodworkers cannot stand HF tools. Some have actual experience and others passing along what they have heard. Like, any China made lathe old HF 34706, you either love or hate the thing.

While have no problems with reeves drive lathes made in North America, think Asian made reeves drive lathes not worth having. Only exception is the HF 34706 because it is so inexpensive.

Delta, Jet, Grizzly, Laguna, and others reeves drive lathes over priced today. Delta stopped selling their 1442 lathe. For more than couple years Jet did not sell their 1236 lathe, now will pay little over $1,000 for it with shipping. When Jet 1442 sold for less than $1,000 with stand not a bad lathe. Few years back could buy one without a stand for around $1,100 before shipping, that is no longer available. I do not see the Jet 1442 now selling for $1430 with stand plus shipping a great starter lathe.

If HF 34706 not the lathe for you take it back, and do not look back.

Good luck with your search!


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## wormil

I'd rather spend my money on a vintage lathe even if it needed some work rather than a HF lathe. Don't mistake this for bashing but machines that cheap are going to have niggling problems that decrease your level of satisfaction. If something is just a tiny bit aggravating every time you use it then pretty soon you aren't going to use it at all. Better to have all the aggravation up front (if there is any) but have a rock solid dependable machine that will be a joy to use. That's just me though.

Have you learned anything else about this or the other lathes yet?


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## woodman44

The owner did repaint it and I had him check the alignment of the head/tail stock and that checked out OK. I won't be able to check anything else until I see it myself and power it up.

I am leaning toward the Delta 46-400 unless I find something better in the next 5 days. I did take back the HF 34706. Now I would like to find out the fair market value of that Delta to see if $ 695 is in line with others in a similar condition.

If anyone out there knows of a resource for the value older equipment like the 46-400 please chime in.

All the best.


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## wormil

owwm.org is your best bet.


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## wormil

That lathe sold for $760.00. Did you buy it?


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## woodman44

No, I changed my mind about a vintage lathe especially after learning from my local woodworking stores that Delta may have decided to get out of the large tool businss (lathes, etc.) and the fact that it has been sold to a China Co.

My thought now is to strongly consider the Nova 1624-44 which is on sale at Woodcraft for $ 950 thru November.

Do you have an opinion on this lathe or know someone that has? The reviews that I have seen have been mostly 4-5 stars with the exception of a few 1-2 stars and since I am trying to feep my price below $ 1,000, it seems like the best value for my first and probably my only lathe.

Thanks for your interest.


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## TheDane

Ken-The Nova is a fine machine, so if you decide to go that way you are certainly not making a mistake.

However, don't fall for the FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) about Delta. If you believe the rumors, Delta has been going out of business for 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc. years, It ain't happened yet, and the Delta 46-460 Midi (which has been on the market for over three years) is still a 'best in class' machine.


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## wormil

after learning from my local woodworking stores

Powermatic dealers have been using those same lines since Black & Decker bought Delta and they trotted them out for the new buyout. Seriously, you can google old posts and find the same rumors nearly word for word, always heard at the "local woodworking store". In fact the local Powermatic dealer just posted them on our local club website. They are also pissed that Delta is not currently working deals with distributors. Considering Powermatic/Jet just sold out to a broker, a company that fixes or parts out companies to avoid bankruptcy, it has a special irony. And it was a Taiwanese company that bought Delta then moved the headquarters to South Carolina.

As for the Nova, I was over at a guy's house a few weeks back and he had one. He really likes the swiveling head and his only complaint is that the speed control requires you to shift the belt but he showed me and it was pretty quick.


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## woodman44

Regarding Delta, actually the negative comments came from 3 retailers that have carried Delta in the past but no longer because of the lack of communication and service from Delta in S.C. (Woodcraft, Performance Tool & a Independent).

That said, I can get a used Delta 46-460 with extended bed/stand and reversible chuck for $ 650, compared to the Nova 1642-44 with the additional features of the 16" throw, and swivel head for $ 300 more plus the cost of a chuck.

Is it worth $ 400+ for a new lathe with a warranty? My logic says yes, my checkbook says???, not sure.

Thanks again.


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## wormil

It's Powermatic dealers across the board. Like I said, you can google it and find the same word for word rumors going back to 2004; it has zero to do with the current buyout. PM makes fine machines but they've been 2nd fiddle to Delta for a very long time and with their financial issues I'm sure they were desperate to turn the tables.


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