# To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith



## sdwoodworker (Jan 26, 2008)

*To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*

So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.

Personally I've never used the SS but I sincerely doubt I'd be a fan. Not being able to move from machine to machine would bug the hell outta me and being limited to using just their tools would make me want to roll it off a cliff.

I wanted to get you guys to weigh in especially those who have experience with both! So bring on the debate.


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## Texasgaloot (Apr 8, 2008)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


Hey SD-

My opinion of the SS after using a friends is that they fit the profile exactly (I know, we aren't supposed to do that) of "jack of all trades, master of none." IMHO, they are waaaayyyy too limiting in terms of table size, changing setups every few minutes, not being as accurate as discrete machines, etc. They also don't have that great of a resale should FIL change his mind. On the other hand, he's your father in law, not blood, so you can't scream at the same decibel rate as you could with your own dad. Something about choosing which ditch to die in leaps to mind…

Peace-

Mack


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## Splinters (Dec 12, 2006)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


Greetings SD…my 2 cents worth… first off I agree with Mack's comments above….except I would give the same advise to FIL as I would to my dad….but that's just me…

I started out with a SS twenty odd years ago when I had a very limited space problem for woodworking. Although I still have the equipment..now I only use the planer, jointer and band saw as stand alone only. The main unit collects dust and takes up space. The stand alone units are ok and serve my purpose for now….but no where near offer the accuracy and stability as some of my newer gear.

The *"only"* reason I would ever buy or recommend SS again, would be if someone was extremely limited in work shop space.

Good Luck..


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## Russ553 (Apr 9, 2008)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


Having both the ShopSmith and then buying stand alone tools, I prefer the stand alone. My SS has become my disc sander and I have built a horizontal router table setup on the other end of it. I'm with Mack on the tables being too limiting, changing it over becomes a nuisance, you have to buy their expensive accessories and it's too tall for me. I'm a little on the height challenged side. When set up as a table saw it hits me right in the chest. I have had trouble with the saw blade coming loose as it is held with a single set screw. I returned the router accessory I bought for it as it too would fall off the arbor shaft. Set screw would never hold. Drill press, horizontal boring and disc sanding are fine. I have not tried the lathe yet. But again, changeover is a nuisance though not difficult.


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## woodsmith (Jan 7, 2008)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


I bought a used SS because I wanted a lathe and I had never used one. It was a good price and I think it will serve my purpose. I might use the horizonal boring sometimes but changing over all the time is not for me. Some people seem to like that but I know I am not one of them. All my other tools are stand alone, not as good of quality as I would like but what would fit my bilfold. Most of my tools were found used.
Lamar


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## wooddon (Jul 11, 2007)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


I have SS. Had it for 20 years. It is a very accurate tool. Better than most stand alone tools. Its dust collection is a piece of S--. I bought the saw dust collection upgrade and tossed in the junk pile after 2 weeks. All in all I think it is a great tool and would never get rid of it. Changing from one mode to another takes a few minutes and I doubt if any one but a commercial operation is affected by this. I( feel that the problem with set up is only a problem with people who are overwelmed with thier importance.


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## retcaptb (Jul 28, 2008)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


I have owned a ShopSmith for almost 30 years along with most of the side equipment. I also have other brands of standalone equipment. Plus I have taken college coarses in woodworking and cabinet making where we had a shop with many types of stand alone equipment including a sliding table cuting saw and other high end cabinet making equipment. I can say that it is not the equipment that makes the woodworker but what the woodworker makes with the equipment he/she has. ShopSmith is one of the only American made manufactures left in the USA. Its in Dayton, Ohio. 
I have seen lots of projects made with the ShopSmith. I also can say that ShopSmith is a quality made product that has been in existence for over 60 years. It has sold thousands of machines all over the world. And you can still get parts for most of the items sold with a few exceptions. I am not going to put down anyone who uses ShopSmith tools or any other manufacture for that part. All machines have there place. If you have the room to have standalone tools more power to you. If you don't a ShopSmith would be a good choice. It will be a choice that you can pass down to many woodworkers behind you. Quality American made tools.
As far as accuracy and such, it is what you allow of it. You can use Incra percission tools on the ShopSmith. If you allign the equipment you can get accurete cuts. Most people don't. Or don't know how. 
ShopSmith has a national woodworking accademy with world renowned instructor and author Nick Engler as the lead instructor. They have woodworking instruction on their web site along with live web sessions during the year. They are held every other weekend most of the year. I don't know of too many other manufactures that have that type of instruction on there equipment. If you have questions on the ShopSmith equipment, just ask. Send me an email. I will answer with what I know and have learned about ShopSmith equipment.


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## sdwoodworker (Jan 26, 2008)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


Great feedback I knew this would touch off some debate. I'm keeping FIL up to date on all the comments. I think my biggest concern so far in the comments is the table saw. How far off the ground does the actual table sit? I would imagine moving 4×8 sheets across a small table would be tough.


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## hops (Apr 7, 2007)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


I'd imagine most guys don't have table saws in their shops that can safely handle a 4×8 sheet of plywood. Cut the silly thing down to a manageable size first with a circ. saw (or have the reseller do it for you before you cart it home.)

One poster above mentioned that most guys who complain about inaccuracy of the Shopsmith don't know how to set one up properly. Exactly! 
I bought and sold them on eBay a few years back. Reason most guys sold them to me? It wasn't that they suddenly had more room and went with "stand alones" (as one might think). Most of them had dinky shops that were crammed so full of tools that you could barely turn around. Nope… over and again I heard guys say, "I just can't get it to cut accurately." When I asked if they had set it up and aligned it they were dumbfounded. I don't get it… the Shopsmith gets bashed like a whipping boy for being inaccurate when it is user ignorance (or laziness) - and every other tool on the market has to be set up and aligned to be accurate, too. I don't get it.
And for goodness' sake, if changeovers require either A) too much time or B) too much planning ahead… well, that's just sad. Oh well.
Use what works for you. Some people just don't "get" the Shopsmith mindset.


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## reible (Feb 7, 2008)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


Hi,

Nothing like a few people who own shopsmiths to answer your or rather your Dad's questions.

First off I love my shopsmith equipment! I got my first one back 32 years ago and I still use it all the time. I retired 8 years ago and at the time actually thought about getting a "real table saw", that never happened. Instead I upgraded my shopsmith to the current version which is the 520. Bigger table, hefty fence and like the 510 model the rail system. It was of course like having a new machine. I also did the single to two bearing quill, also a nice addition. Here might be a good place to add that the shopsmith not only has replacement parts but also an upgrade path.

As far as getting information about shopsmith and a very loyal bunch you will find us try checking the 3 active shopsmith groups on the web. If the machine is one of the older ones (pre 1973) there is another group that is active for those.

You will find that both Incra and Jointech have fence systems that let you work down to .001" if you ever find the need for it. They both let you add a router table to the shopsmith as well.

One thing I will point out about sheet goods…. my days of handing them on any type of table saw are long gone but you can and I have done it on my machine. Now I always have it done in the store or do it myself with a circular saw and guide. Even if your Dad can handle the sheet goods now it may not always be that way.

If he does and I hope he does decide to stay with the shopsmith they have alignment videos that he may want to look at if he has not been an active user, they also have videos out about repairing and mantinance that will make sure the machine stays running for years to come. I personally plan to pass my shopsmith equipment on to my children and it could be they might pass it on to theirs….

If you have any questions that I might answer feel free to contact me, I also have 600 or so pictures related to shopsmith that I keep at Flickr if that might help answer some questions.

Ed


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## Zuki (Mar 28, 2007)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


Great debate. I do not own a SS, but I enjoyed reading the thread.


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## 8iowa (Feb 7, 2008)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


I started with a Shopsmith 500 back in '83 when I only had 1/2 of a two car garage to work in. I quickly added the bandsaw, joiner, planer, and DC3300 dust collector. These special purpose tools are easy to mount on a shelf,-or on the back of the workbench, out of the way, a real benefit if you have limited work space. Most garage or basement shops also have limited electrical capability. The Shopsmith can work on a standard 15 amp circuit.

Those who complain about the small table surface are not aware that the 510 and 520 upgrade package gives you a larger table, and in the case of the 520, a fence that is every bit as good as the best aftermarket fence available. Also, the detractors use the words "setup" and "change over" incorrectly as though the words have the same meaning. "Setup" is what you have to do on any woodworking tool in order to make a particular cut. In some cases, this can be quite exacting and time consuming, using clamps, jigs, featherboards, and having to make trial cuts. "Setup" on the shopsmith is virtually the same process as you would have to undergo on any other machine. "Change over", on the Shopsmith, is when you go from one mode to the other, as in table saw to drill press. "Change over" is a straightforward, easy and quick process thart can be accomplished in a couple of minutes, sipping coffee in the meantime. Usually the only tool required is a 5/32 allen wrench.

When I built my new 24'x28' shop I decided to stay with Shopsmith equipment. In fact I added a second Shopsmith 520 and a Shopsmith variable speed power station. I have a lot of flexability that only much larger stand alone shops have. Actually, the Shopsmith, and many of the available accessories give you capability that is not available anywhere else. For example; a variable speed saw that allows you to cut sheet plastic without creating a gooey melted mess, a drill press that can drill horizonally, a 12" sanding disk that can be put in place keeping the same angles that you have just sawn with, a conical disk sander to joint a plywood edge and a sharpening jig to sharpen your planer and joiner knives, a speed reducer that will permit you to drill with 3" Forstner bits at 100 rpm. I could go on, but you get the idea. This is not a woodworking system that is easily dismissed.

Franky, there are a lot of mis-alligned tools out there and Shopsmith should not be singled out. With a good set of engineering squares, and a dial indicator gauge the Shopsmith can be put in excellent alignment. It is a well made precision tool. I made a special "sled" to cut bowl segments. The Shopsmith is so accurate I can cut 10 sided segments that fit together perfectly, and do it time after time. If you don't have accurate allignment tools or don't know how to align your machine, you will not get good results.

While not many table saws are capable of cutting 4'x8' sheets, I have done it often on the Shopsmith. With the 520's table extensions and the optional 5' connector tubes I can saw large awkward boards and sheet goods. (I'll have to admit that it is a good idea to have a helper - usually my wife) The "setup" takes some time to put together, but the only other alternative is to have a very large, heavy, and space consuming cabinet saw occuping the middle of the room. With my 80 tooth Freud ATB blade I get very good results on plywood that would rival anything coming out of a cabinet shop.

The discussions concerning the cost of a Shopsmith vs the cost of stand alone tools is a useless exercise. Today, there are so many Asian tools on the market that it would be difficult to compare quality with quality. The Shopsmith is perhaps the last woodworking tool made in the USA - if this means anything to anyone anymore. While a new 520 will cost $3000, it is possible to purchase a used Shopsmith for a reasonable amount and upgrade the machine to the latest model. With about 1/2 million Shopsmiths "out there" This is not at all difficult. Ebay usually has 300 or more Shopsmith items up everyday, Factory service and parts availability is far beyond that provided by other manufacturers.


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


I started out, not with a shopsmith but with the triton workcentre Austrailian .However I soon outgrew it with all it's many accessories some actually seldom or never used from new.I sold it and went down the path of saying (LOOK I HAVE WORKED HARD ALL OF MY LIFE AND DESERVE A VERY NICE SHOP) I had too many elderly friends and family die dreaming of the shop they never actually had. I decided to do it and not just talk about it so I recommend if your father or father in law has the money treat himself to the best he can afford your along time dead.sell up the shopsmith and move on to the top of the trea if he can afford to.Buying used stuff can be very satisfying so it does not need to be very expensive kindest regards and hope you both have fun. my 3 cents hope I don't come accross as being arrogant I wish him the best that's all Alistair


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## EEngineer (Jul 4, 2008)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


An old discussion I've seen repeated many times. I've used friends' ShopSmith at times and I see not much wrong with it. I haven't used all of the features enough to make any comments on the usability of each one on a ShopSmith.

I went the separate tool route in my shop. Even though space is limited (a detached 1 1/2 car garage) and I end up shuffling tools quite a bit to get room to swing lumber it suits the way I like to work much better. I like to "putter", try a little of this and a little of that until I get the process down and then bang out most of the work for a project. In 15 minutes, I might go from the table saw to the router table to the drill press multiple times (an example from last weekend) and having a multi tool that I had to change for each step would take more time and patience than I have.

It seems to me that you have to be more organized using a ShopSmith so that you can finish all (or most) operations using the tool in one configuration, change to another configuration, then finish all (or most) operations in that config, etc. to minimize the amount of time spent changing. I am just not that organized and/or I end up changing my mind about how to do something in the middle of the process.


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## FlWoodRat (Sep 12, 2007)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


My $.02 worth. Had a Shop Smith and loved it. Then sold it for stand alone equipment. Don't miss it at all. It is fine for small stuff and yes, quiet versitile if you buy their addons. The two major problems to me were: 
#1: Tough to do beveled cuts on sheet goods.
#2: I grew weary of having to switch set ups and then having to 're-calibrate'.

If you have the room, I recommend going to individual tools designed for that function.


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## pinkiewerewolf (Mar 14, 2008)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


As a Shopsmith user, I just happened upon this thread and I'm curious what the FIL decided on.

Well, might as well chime in while I'm here.

I really like my Shopsmith Mark V. (50's model, that I upgraded to a modern 520) 
I also bought a used "shorty" (Mark V with the tubes cut down) and I don't find myself making so many change overs that it would bother me, in fact I enjoy planning out the steps before I begin the work.
Like another member posted there are tons of accessories, Jointech, Incra, Bandsaws, Joiners, and other groovy tools like the Overhead Pin Router.
I recently added both the OPR and Jointech Saw Train to my accessories and I'm having a blast getting to know them. Using the OPR was intimidating at first, but now it is instinctive to actually see the work below you, like free handing the work, except more accurate.

I'm having fun, learning skills, and meeting some great people that I wouldn't have been able to do without my Shopsmith.
Its working out well for me… except I wish I could get a coffee mug with the logo.
Enjoy everyone!


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## SST (Nov 30, 2006)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


I just stumbled across this thread…surprised I didn't notice before. You've probably made your decision long ago, but if not, here's my two cents worth.
I own & use 3 model 10er's (predecessor to the mark 5), 2 at home and one at my summer place, and I love them. I've used them for everything from major re-modeling to fine woodworking and they do as good a job as I've ever needed. I own one mark 5 "shorty" as well for some of the accessories that aren't as compatible with my older machines.
The table saw is the weak link being a tilt-table instead of tilt arbor, but it has always done what I needed, (just how many bevel cuts on large stock have you ever done, anyway)so I deal with that because the other tools & accessories all work great and are VERY well built.
Change over time is about 1 minute on average, tool to tool. It hardly get's in the way of a project. It seems that most of the guys who grumble about the change time haven't actually used shopsmiths and done it. 
Can you tell I'm a Shopsmith guy??? -SST


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## dusty2 (Jan 4, 2009)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


I try to avoid debating on whether or not the Shopsmith should be selected over standalone equipment. I chose the Shopsmith, first and foremost because it allowed me to have a full function workshop in a very limited space. I now am not so limited as I once was but after using the Shopsmith for over twenty years I found that it does everything I need to do so Why Change.

If you have the space and can afford quality standalone gear I would say go for it. There is NO reasonable argument for why you should not. I don't believe there is a Shopsmither out there that will say quality stand alones cannot do the job as well as their Shopsmith. That would, in my opinion, be ignorant.

However, knocking the Shopsmith just because it has a tilting table is IMHO a bit naive. Bevels on reasonably sized materials is well within the capablities of the Mark V. I do bevels frequently and have no problems. Bevels on large pieces (sheet goods and panels) is another story.

Doing bevel cuts on sheet goods is another story. I don't even attempt it. In fact, I hardly ever attempt full sheets on my Shopsmith at all, any more. Not because the Shopsmith can't handle it but because I can no longer handle full size sheet goods *safely*.

Brad, whatever you select, I know you will enjoy your time in the shop. There is nothing quite like "sawdust therapy". Good luck in your future woodworking endeavors. I hope you will let us know what you select and will post some photos. Be safe.


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## bunkie (Oct 13, 2009)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


I've owned my ShopSmith for 16 years. Despite the fact that I am acquiring certain stand-alone tools, I will never part with my Mark V. Here's why:

1) It takes up very little space for all of its capability. Mine has the casters and rolls into a corner when not in use.

2) You haven't lived until you have more than one tablesaw. Dado blade in one, WoodWorker II in another.

3) Customer service, parts availability and the ShopSmith "family" are second to none. There's no planned obsolescense in the ShopSmith world.

4) Post-divorce, I had no room for my contractor saw in my downsized life. My ShopSmith followed me to an apartment in Brooklyn in the back of a station wagon.

5) A lathe is rarely on the list of "must-have" tools for beginning woodworkers. It wasn't on mine. But having it allowed me to take the plunge. As a result, turning has become one of my favorite woodworking pursuits.

Mine was upgraded to 520 and I have used it to effectively rip sheets of plywood which disproves the whole "small table" complaints. I would highly recommend a used Mark V to almost anyone. They are inexpensive on the used market and darned useful to have around. Properly set up, accuracy is not an issue and the variable speed is very useful and is available in every one of its functions.


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## 76winger (Nov 12, 2009)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


I just stumbled across this tread from a google search for speed reducer for my own Shopsmith. I purchased mine as a basket case a few years ago, spent about $700 (USD) fixing it up and the old 1954 model was like new again. two years since I've completed its recussitation, I continue to use it regularly in my own shop.

At the time I put it back into service, the old girl had a 10" Crafstman Table Saw and 8 1/4"Radial Arm Saw to keep it company. Since then I've added a Makita miter saw and full size Crafstman drill press to the collection. The Shopsmith provides me with a bandsaw, disk sander and lath on a regular basis, and I've used the mortising attachment with it once so far, with more ideas to come. Not being a professional and using everything daily, the whole setup, including a SS that's 3 years older than me works out really great.

And being able to find replacement parts for it due to not major changes in the unit over the years is a great advantage. If I can't find a used part on ebay, I know the great bunch of folks at ShopSmith will have them!


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## Norsk (Mar 24, 2010)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


Brad, why would your retired father in law want to build a new shop and stock it with standalone tools when he has an old Shopsmith that can be upgraded for $1k? Hard to justify a new shop for most retirees. Yeah, the extra room would be great but then what is he going to do, small projects or start a wood working business? I've kicked it around myself. Love to own a Unisaw but it would be massive over kill for my small remodeling projects.

For those in the wood working business, quality standalone equipment is the way to go. For weekend warriors and retirees, the Shopsmith is a good way to go. Yeah, you can buy cheap standalone equipment that in total rivals the cost of a Shopsmith but the quality is poor and maybe requires room that most folks don't have.

Tool change overs can seem onerous with the Shopsmith but not if you plan ahead. I wonder if anyone has put together a list of tool changeovers and how much time is required to complete the change, like table saw to drill press.


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## rhybeka (Nov 8, 2009)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


interesting thread since I just emailed someone from Craigslist about an 'older model' shopsmith they have for sale for $275 (Verbatim : Older model Shop Smith. Very good condition. Everything works well. Has: saw, saw table,large sander plate, drill attachments, bandsaw. ) I thought it would be good since I too have half a garageto work in and not a lot of space for tools… Guess we'll see how it works out


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


I am a proud Shopsmith owner. Tool changeover….bah. piece of cake. I dont look at my time in the shop as a 'gotta get er done today' adventure. Time in the shop is just that. To those that poo-poo the accuracy of our machines again I say BAH. A tuned machine will cut true, I will put my 45 degree miters next to anyones. These are quality machines, made with quality material, built in America by Americans.


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## bunkie (Oct 13, 2009)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


Nice to see this thread bumped. If the PBS Woodworker Show thread can live forever so can this one!


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## ShopsmithChar1 (Nov 21, 2013)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


I am starting a woodshop out on my inherited Shopsmith 510, I was fortunate enough to get it from my late father in law. According to MIL he bought it with the idea of having a hobby shop after he retired and barely used it, been sitting there for 15 years under a sheet. I spent time going through the manuals, learning each set up, cleaning and waxing the machine. 
My Grandfather had always talked about having one for his shop, but he never got around to it. Seeing as I have never worked one I dont have much to say about performance, but I can say after so long of construction and working in a cabinet shop to get the quality of a industrial machine out of something so versatile and compact is amazing. As other have stated it the last one made in the USA. Customer Service has been great as well.


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## jjbuzard (Oct 30, 2012)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


Never to late I hope, for someone looking for an opinion, here it is,I have owned Shopsmiths for over 35 years, well built machine, the change overs don't take all that long, some take seconds, the one BIG plus is that Shopsmith still services and provides parts for 60 + year old machines, try to find that anywhere except maybe Caterpillar on their Construction Equipment, Also Shopsmith is MADE IN THE USA, try to find that in ANY woodworking equipment, Delta, Porter Cable, Laguana, etc all China made CRAP! If you want a good Delta band saw find one from the 50's, then good luck on Parts. Not a problem with American Made Shopsmith. I use stand alone tools AND my Shopsmith, I just bought another, a 1957 Shopsmith that I am re furbishing, it still runs after 59 years, but needs a fresh coat of paint and some clean up, but it is 59 years old, Good Old American Made, show me a Jap or Chinese piece of crap still working after 59 years of use. A Shopsmith has a place in any shop, and fills a need in mine. Just saying.


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## jjbuzard (Oct 30, 2012)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...







Lots of good points about Shopsmith.


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## jjbuzard (Oct 30, 2012)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


More that answers the table size complaint.


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## Kasp (Apr 19, 2010)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


I think the Shopsmith fulfills it's primary duty as a compact multi-purpose woodworking machine wonderfully.
If you have limited space, it's the perfect solution. 
If you have the money and space, dedicated machines are of course the better option. 
I truly believe anyone with unlimited funds and space would not likely use a SS exclusively. JMHO.


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## jjbuzard (Oct 30, 2012)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


Right on David, anyone starting out could do far worse than starting with Shopsmith, taking up only a small footprint, and starting with the basics, Drill Press, Band saw, jointer, belt sander, one can accomplish alot. And as time goes by and funds become available, add dedicated machines. BUT then you will find the SS is a perfect back up when need arises. I currently have a Saw Stop table saw, Independent Drill Press, 6" jointer, 
jointer,Chop saw spindle sander, Shopsmith Power Stand with belt sander AND 2 Shopsmiths, I like to feel there isn't anything I can't do.


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## azdustdevil (Aug 11, 2010)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


I just bought a nearly new Shopsmith Mark V 500. The former owner bought it in 1988, built one small project, had a stroke the day after and died. I just finished cleaning it up and it looks almost new! I have stand alone machines (all on wheels) have never owned a Shopsmith before. I'll post again after a while and give my final thoughts on it.


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## azdustdevil (Aug 11, 2010)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


Ok, have had the Mv 500 for over a month now, and I like this machine. It's solid as a rock. It does a lot and requires so little space. It's on wheels and can easily be repositioned. I no longer have a full basement to myself, only a single bay of a three car garage. I've decided to upgrade to the 520. I'm selling the bandsaw and the lathe duplicator that came with the SS as I don't need them….I'm keeping my Jet bandsaw because it is bigger, better, and takes up little space. I'm also selling my Chinese junkers: A Bosch portable table saw and a horrible small Delta drill press.

I'm ready for retirement!


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## azdustdevil (Aug 11, 2010)

sdwoodworker said:


> *To Shopsmith or Not to Shopsmith*
> 
> So I've been debating with my father in law about weather or not he should sell his Shopsmith setup invest in building a new shop using standard stand alone tools and machines. He's about to retire and is kicking the idea around of either selling it or dropping another $1K into upgrading to all new Shopsmith stuff.
> 
> ...


Ok, the jury is back, and I have updated my 500 to the 520!

I was lucky to find an upgrade for sale on evilbay and the upgrade was like new. I have it assembled and ready to go and I must say, the 520 is a thousand miles ahead of the 500. The first huge improvement is the crank powered carriage assembly. The hand wheel is much more convenient than the old handle, period. No comparison. Plus, it has a subtle locking feature that prevents over tightening. Very nice to have.

The 520 "super fence" is dead on. I held the 520 fence in one hand and the 500 in the other. Holy cow! Simply no comparison. (Anyone want to by the old one? Only asking five bucks, and it's no bargain.)

The 520 saw table is a sight to behold! Muuuch larger than the 500. Then there are the matching extensions. I assembled them altogether and could not believe how wide the thing was. However, that raised another question: Do I really need that much saw table? Is it worth assembling these extensions every time I crank the thing up? Short answer, "No". The standard 520 table with the single non-floating extension table are probably all I will need for the vast majority of projects in my shop, but it's nice to know the floating tables are there when occasionally needed.

The drill press function has more capacity and versatility than I can imagine I will ever need. The variable speed is a plus. My Chinese drill press will go to Craigslist.

I turned a huge chunk of basswood using the lathe function. The Shopsmith will handle just about any turning job you can throw at it….with ease.

There are downsides to the Shopsmith system, of course. It takes time to switch from one mode to another, but not as much as I expected. I'm not enthusiastic about the height of the saw table. That will take some getting used to. It's also important to remember that when setting up the table saw, you should always set up the main table first, then add the extensions as needed. When you are not using the extensions and support legs, there is the storage issue. Shopsmith sells a wall hanging setup (overpriced) or you can design and build your own (Either way, highly recommended).

Now the bright side: The whole thing takes up minimal space in your home workshop. The 520 is great for almost all home woodworkers. It can do just about anything you need (expensive accessories are available) and, if cared for properly and not abused, should last a lifetime and more.

My only regret is that I did not get a 520 sooner.


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