# SawStop



## Philzoel (Dec 26, 2011)

I just saw the hotdog test on the Saw-stop table saw. WOW!!!.... Makes me think. Is it worth it? It apparently works.
Do they require special blades that cost macho $? what do you think?. Is it true one finger every 6 minutes?


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

Is it worth it? I suppose that depends on how much value you place on your digits. It's like an airbag in your car. You hope you'll never need it, and you'd be glad of it if you did.


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## Philzoel (Dec 26, 2011)

renner do you have one? They cost about $1500 more than say a Jet of same quality.


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

I do not have a SS. They are not available in Ireland. I have read an awful lot about them on LJ's though. 
The Nanny State development makes it a bit of a contentious issue… 
There's hours and hours of reading material on here if you go to the search field.


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## Swampy (Dec 25, 2011)

I bought mine about 6 weeks ago (Pro Cabinet 1.75) and so far its been nice Everything right on out of the box. You dont need special blades but there is a blade brake that is extra from most saws. Thats what keeps the pinkies safe LOL


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

This saw uses normal blades but if you trigger the devise it destroys the blade. In my book there's not debate if you can afford one buy one. Some folks don't like the owner of SS because he tried to make it mandatory to have his devise in all new table saws. I say forget about the owner of SS and think about your fingers and what it would cost for surgery to *try* and reattach a finger or two.


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## WDHLT15 (Aug 15, 2011)

I had a customer come buy some lumber from me to panel a room about a week and a half ago. Called back two days later and wanted some cherry to make a counter top, so we set up a time to meet the next day. That morning, his wife called and said that he was in the Medical Center. Cut his hand on the table saw. Cut it almost in half.

Well, for two or three days, that really bothered me. He was a nice guy, and it really hit hard close to home. I make a lot of furniture and I know how dangerous the table saw is. I thought, "How could I not afford a sawstop compared to the price of one lax moment? What is the use of your hand worth? Slept on it two nights, and then ordered the 1.75 HP sawstop. I will pick it up later this week. I figured that I won't die a poor beggar because of it, and I have always been told that you cannot take money with you when you go to meet your Maker.


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## ken_c (Sep 28, 2009)

why not a chisel-stop or sandpaper-stop, just think, we could sue Norton abrasives… BTW, in case you couldn't tell, put me in the ANTI sawcrap camp due to Gass's predatory litigious practices…


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## ocwoodworker (Mar 5, 2010)

Again, just as a1Jim said… Don't really care if the owner of SS tried to legislate it to be mandatory. People in the ER don't hold lively discussions of legislation. They just say "Just put the #$%&?! finger back on!!" I bought a 3HP SS and am thankful for the security it provides. I don't see it as "I might"...I see it as "when it does". I'll just pull my hand back with a small nick and go inside and have a cold beer and tell the wife with a shaky smile that I'm having fun in the shop.


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## yrob (May 26, 2008)

If I could afford it I would buy one in a heart beat. I am not about to risk cutting my hand or fingers just to make a stand about how bad the owner is by pushing his technology via legislation.


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## rep (Nov 20, 2009)

Phil - " They cost about $1500 more than say a Jet of same quality."

Jet offers a table saw of the same quality? Are we talking contractor, cabinet, industrial?

I am with a1Jim and ocwoodworker on this. It was worth the money. I consider it insurance - not a license to be stupid.

It is your choice - for now, anyway.

I wonder how long this thread will go…


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

Dust collection is actually what interests me the most in the newer tablesaws. Since I'm very deliberate and careful on the tablesaw (and do the majority of my ripping on the bandsaw) I'm more likely to encounter dust-related health issues over the long term than lose a finger to the blade. From what I've seen, Sawstop does have a good dust shroud with a 4" port around the blade. So does the Powermatic but that costs the same as the Sawstop.

A quick look at Jet didn't bring up any pictures of integrated dust shrouds. I may not have looked at the current model though.


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## Martyroc (Feb 1, 2012)

I somewhat agree, but not totally. the owner as Jim said tried to make it mandatory on all saws, (he's a Lawyer, big surprise, more money in his pocket the greedy SOB). Still that being said I think its a great idea, but I do not think it should be mandatory. In cases where there are cabinet shops and wood working facilities or an occupation that uses table saws, yes I would have it as mandatory, its insurance and should be the employers responsibility, but for the home user that just does this as hobby and cant afford $900 for a bench top table saw because it has saw stop installed, instead of $150-$250 for a saw without. Safety is a concern of mine as it should be for everybody, but to lobby to change the entire industry to make more money (which is his motivation, I don't care what anyone says, that's the truth), is uncalled for. You know the risks you are getting into it is your decision to decide not the Governments. I have a friend that cut off 4 fingers using a grinder he outfitted with a saw blade, JUST PLAIN STUPID, and he will be the first one to admit it, but he also told me he knew the risks, he knew it was wrong but he did it anyway, that was his decision was his freedom to choose to be an idiot. His finger were reattached after 16 hours of microsurgery and a team of 9 doctors and nurses, thankfully he has over 90% of use back in his hand.

Do I think its a great idea Yes, do I think someone else should be forcing me to take his view on what I need to be safe, HELL NO.

Well that's my 2 cents, I have been woodworking for 25 years and I think of safety every time I step into my shop, thank god the worst that has ever happened to me in my workshop, was I spilled hot coffee in my lap, no ER required.


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

Phil, way to kick the hornet's nest…
I have a SS cabinet saw; yes, it was expensive, but it is excellent quality, safety features aside. I hear the argument often about the price of a SS, but honestly, how much does a new Powermatic TS cost? 
You can use any standard TS blade….as for is it worth it…I don't know. I haven't cut a finger off, but I'm sure that if I had cut one off, I wouldn't be too keen to do it again.


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## yrob (May 26, 2008)

So, I just looked at the price on Woodcraft. The contractor version 1 3/4 Hp with a 30" fence. I added to that two cast iron wings (I hate stamped steel), the over the blade dust collection system, the dust panel, a dado brake, a forest blade. runs around $2100.0 or so. The cabinet version 1.75HP as well (they have a 3HP version 220v) is around $2300.00. Add to that the dust collection, a good blade and a dado brake and its about $2800.00 . Thats comparable with a nice powermatic. So, I do not see that outrageously more expensive. Its almost more cost effective to get the cabinet saw rather than the contractor.

Regarding how experienced and careful one is, an accident is always possible (slight distraction for a moment, a warped /defective piece of wood that was not recognized as such, plain bad luck, etc..). Tommy Mac Donald of rough cut has a video showing off his sawstop cabinet saw. He says on the video that he was not a believer until one day he cut his thumb and required 15 stitches. The next day he was at the store picking up a sawstop..


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Just for the record I don't think folks should be forced into things they don't want, but there is this thing called progress.
If there wasn't progress things would not move forward ,we would drive cars that have mechanical brakes, we would have computers with less memory than a $1.00 calculator,we would not be woke up by smoke alarms when our house is on fire. Many of these things have been forced on us so to speak ,we can still drive cars with mechanical brakes but that means we have to drive a 1928 Model "A" , We can remove smoke alarms from our homes, We can try and use a TRS 80 with 4k memory but we could never get on line with it. Even if the inventor of SS only had profit in mind(and I'm not sure that's all he had in mind) he still invented a great devise to save thousands of injuries and tons of pain. I believe at some point in time you won't be able to buy a table saw without this devise or one like it unless you buy a old used saw.


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

Sawstop type devices will probably become standard but I'd rather see it come naturally due to economic realities, improvement in design, etc. The Sawstop technology itself is fairly low cost in terms of running a woodworking business so most companies (even small ones) will likely be able to swallow the expense and keep on going.

The biggest downside with such legislation though is that they often end up being blanket laws that provide a one-size-fits-all solution that is geared for larger industry and not small business. $3,000 isn't an enormous expense but it is significant for a company that is operating on a narrow margin, is trying to grow, needs to keep employees paid and has to upgrade a lot of equipment. If there's a choice between installing a medical grade dust collection system or a Sawstop I'd be inclined to forgo the saw in favor of the collector. Having everything is ideal of course but in the real world, people often have to choose one or the other.

I've heard people on both sides of the issue chime in plenty of times. Some say that a blanket decision is needed due to the costs of accidents. Others talk about having the right to take risks. I prefer to to take the stance that people need to be given the freedom to make good decisions that are the most appropriate to the time and circumstances.

One guy may decide that he needs dust collection, another thinks the Sawstop is more important, a third is of the opinion that a small CNC machine is needed to earn an income to support a family. All of them have potential be to excellent decisions. For a government mandate to declare that option B takes precedence over the others is tantamount to declaring that it is more important for all people in all situations over all other options.

Cars have certainly gotten a lot safer over the years due to various mandates. I'm using dated technology though since new cars with all the new features are beyond my budget. I could get a new car instead of the old one I drive but then I'd have to forgo the quality tools (which lend themselves to safety) for my woodworking. It's impossible to eliminate all risks (everyone dies sooner or later) and life is full of balancing acts where the potential for one risk has to be weighed against another.


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## JCantin (Jan 21, 2009)

If SawStop was not a quality saw the debate would be more vigorous. From all accounts they make a very good saw, even factoring in the price premium for the safety features. If I was purchasing a saw in that price range it would not be a hard decision.


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## LeeJ (Jul 4, 2007)

A-1 Jim makes very good points. No one likes something being fored upon them. However, if I were to replace my unisaw, it would likely be with a sawstop, or one with blade stopping technology.

Not only is it a great saw, from a company with excellent customer support, but the idea that I can be careful for 30 years and have no mishaps, it still only takes one second for that to change. That 30 years worth of being careful won't lessen the injuries. And it's not just the fingers you lose. It affects you physically, mentally, and financially.

Watch Charles Neils' video on his sawstop, and hear him tell how a table saw mishap affected his life.

I like my fingers. I plan on keeping all of them. I don't plan on becoming careless due to the added safety I would get, but the added layer of protection would be comforting.

Lee


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

Excellent discussion…especially since I hope to buy a new ts this year…

I'm with the anti-mandatory crowd on this one…I hate automatic stuff that's intended to protect me from myself! There's no blade stop on my grizzly bandsaw…none on the drill press…or chainsaw…AND I still consider driving in traffic the most dangerous activity I undertake.

That being said, IF a ts had this extra feature of saving fingers, I'd consider buying it…but only if the SS has the same build quality as a grizz or even powermatic.

hey, ocwoodworker, how square and flat was your 3hp SS out of the box?

I have a feeling the wife would let me spend the extra $$$ for a SS without hesitation…but I want a saw that's dead on flat, square, perfect, ya know?


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

This is a good discussion. Watching Charles Neil's video review of the SS was part of what convinced me to buy it; I didn't want to spend $3000 for a Grizzly level TS with a fancy blade stop; Charles was very clear that SS produced a high quality machine, safety features aside. Having owed a SS for 8 months now, I agree, it is a quality machine.


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## Martyroc (Feb 1, 2012)

I did not mention this earlier but as a few people have stated, i do believe in progress, progress that takes its natural course not something that is forced upon you.

*JAAune* has a very good point and sums up most of my feelings as well with this paragraph: *One guy may decide that he needs dust collection, another thinks the Sawstop is more important, a third is of the opinion that a small CNC machine is needed to earn an income to support a family. All of them have potential be to excellent decisions. For a government mandate to declare that option B takes precedence over the others is tantamount to declaring that it is more important for all people in all situations over all other options.*

*yrob* makes a good point as well, however not all of us have 3k to drop on a tablesaw, sawstop or not, some of us only have a few hundred available and the Ryobi or Dewalt one found in HD or Lowes will suffice, add another $250- $300 and your back to using a handsaw.

I still don't believe you should have to pay extra for safety and have it forced on you. I drive a Kia Minivan, when we were car shopping, we looked at a few brands and the one that sticks out was the Toyota. Why it sticks out because for all the extras and extra safety the vehicle came to 12k more Than the Kia which had all of the safety equipment standard.
I guess what it boild down to is scaring people into thinking they need to have something or something terible will happen thats not sales that is a fear technique, usually practiced by Lawyers, hence the owner of Sawstop. *Damn bottom feeder*


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

I love this image…..










While it's still in crates, awaiting our decision about where to move, I bought a 5HP 1ph SawStop ICS, and cannot wait to get it set up.

I bought it strictly out of fear-fear that the government MIGHT mandate similar technology, and break into my house, and take away all of my non-compliant power tools.

I sleep better, now ;-)


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Sorry to keep beating a drum here ,But I don't get it ,even though the owner of SS wanted to make it law for table saws to have his devise in all table saws he didn't succeed in his efforts .This proves the point that we should not be forced into buying *anything* . And I don't see anyone deciding for us what equipment to buy if any. Phil asked about the saw so it must be in his budget. I don't have a SS but I wish I did ,I don't care what the politics of the inventor are or if he's a lawyer or dog catcher. He has made a safer product and if we want it and can afford it ,it's available. Before his invention it was not even available ,we now have a choice.


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## JollyGreen67 (Nov 1, 2010)

Everybody has their agreement/disagreement on the SS - but - what comes next? Permanent training wheels on bicycles?


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Your Crazy Neil

*LOVE IT!*


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

A relative in another state cut off a finger and severly damaged another on his TS. They were not able to reattach them despite their frantic efforts and being flown to a larger medical center. His portion of his insurance and things that were not covered by insurance amounted to a little less than the cost of three Sawstop 3 hp cabinet saws. While he lived 500 miles away and I had only seen him operate his saw a very few times, he was a 40 veteran of wood working and wore safety glasses and hearing protection religiously.

I bought one the next week. Now if we could just get a jointer with similar technology!!!


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

The really big negative I can see about the SS is the initial price and the additional costs for replacement brake modules and blades. I think the SS is an excelent idea, but should not be made mandatory. Leave it up to the user to decide for himself. As far as cost is concerned, it may be considered a reasonable price if you consider the consequences if one of these saws fails. It may take many years to happen, but if it does and I'm pretty sure it will fail sometime, the confidence in the SS will end. I wonder what kind of guarantee SS has against injury other than parts warranty?


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Holy cow - Note that today I am agreeing 100% with Neil!

Far as price - it is more expensive in the contractor saw and compared to grizzley and some of the "Budget" saws out there.

However for 3HP cabinet saws - the Saw stop is IDENTICAL IN COST to the Powermatic PM2000, Delta's new Unisaw, and the General 450.

All at 3 grand. (2999)


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## Domer (Mar 8, 2009)

Several years ago, Kelley Mehlner came to our local woodworkers guild for a workshop. The first thing he did was ask us who had a blade guard and splutter on their table saw. Only about 10% did. But he convinced me to go home that night and put mine back on my saw, which I did.

He also convinced me of the value of a riving knife. So I started looking at a new table saw. Kelly was nice enough to email me back and forth about the saws I was looking at. He highly recommended the Saw Stop as a great machine plus the safety feature. I also looked at the Charles Neal video. I also talked to all of the table saw merchants locally who universally recommended the Saw Stop

I have spent less time and angst buying houses than making the decision of which saw to buy. My wife inadvertently made the decision for me. She said that I would not be content buying a lesser saw. Which is correct. I am a little compulsive. However, what she really meant that I should not buy anything new but I took it as meaning I should buy the Saw Stop, which I did. She has been very supportive of my decision after we talked it over.

One of the comments earlier was that you would destroy the blade as well as the brake. I have a Forrest WWII and when I tripped the brake, I sent the blade back to Forrest and they straighten it our and put a couple of new teeth on it for as I remember it $15 more than sharpening the blade. I don't know if any other blade manufacturers will do that as well or not.

I am a very happy Saw Stop owner.

Domer


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## Sarit (Oct 21, 2009)

I'll make the decision easy for you. There haven't been anyone who's ever regretted buying a sawstop.
There are lots of people who regret not buying it and now have interesting nicknames like stumpy, lefty, nubs, etc.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

Neil is crazy and we can't help him. A1Jim is right when he speaks of progress. We all want it and enjoy it. The thing is the people that invented the $10 smoke alarm didn't come out in the beginning and go to court and declare they should be in every home built. they at least waited a few years and let the public like the idea before they got the govt involved. That is the rub. My rub is the anti lock brakes on my vehicle. The national safety council says they don't help a bit yet (I am sure )some politician must own the plant that builds those devices and they come in every car and truck and cost me $1500 on a new car and $600 to repair that stupid light on the dash. Why hasn't someone thought about leaving that out of your vehicle since it does nothing?? The plant is in a state that needs the cash flow and the politician is taking care of it. 
Now on to SS. Well they look good and they save the fingers. Maybe we should just put our hands in our pockets. Get the same safety there…..right. I will possibly get a SS some day for my grandchildren's safety. I want to teach them and I want them to have all their fingers. 
JAAune says he uses the band saw. Well, more fingers are cut there than any other saw in the shop. They are usually not serious cut but I think any cut is a serious cut. Our local technical school where my wife works has a large wood shop. Some man brought in a cedar log to have ti sawed in some fashion on the band saw. Part of the school's responsibility to the local taxpayer is to do some of this. The instructor was cutting it. This is a 30 inch Powerm
atic saw. My wife happened to be taking a short cut through the shop thinking it was empty. As she opened the do to go in the instructor grabbed his hand and ran to the sink yelling I knew better, I knew better. Long story short he cut a tendon and had to have surgery and 6 weeks off work. Don't think you are immune to an injury. 
Now why is it we are willing to spend $3000 on a top of the line table saw and yet we ignore the dust? I can't figure this out myself. I include myself. Even if we cut off a finger or have a kickback we usually live through it. What about lung cancer from the dust? Just wondering.

BTW my Clear Vue dust collector with the Pendtz designed separator is on the way to my house.


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

My wife found out about the SS a few weeks ago. She ordered me to get one with my next bonus. I can't get any other power tool until I have one. SWMBO.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

"BTW my Clear Vue dust collector with the Pendtz designed separator is on the way to my house."

Baaaaaaahhhhh ! I'm envious. Great DC !

Pics and a review, when it's all set up, huh ?

-The Crazy Guy =)


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## Philzoel (Dec 26, 2011)

Wow! What a buzz saw! Pun intended. You all have answered some of my concern. Saw blade not special, saw is quality and cuts good. Not heard it is a great saw from you guys. Is it better/Equal to Jet or grizzly.

I am not interested in politics. Is saw a good saw?

I bought a Jet 10" Only 6 mo ago. I love the saw. Great accuracy, low vibration. Did have to adjust blade runout from .0009 to .0001 which was easy to do. Soooooooo what I'm hearing is :

THE SAW QUALITY IS OK not spectacular. 
Buy it if you can.

Wish my woodcraft guy pushed it over jet 6 mo ago. To recover I have to spend another $2500 min. Can I sell my Jet?


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

" Is it true one finger every 6 minutes?"

Stats I've heard are 40,000 TS injuries each year, and-of those-4,000 amputations.

If it's one finger every six minutes, I truly hope it's not ALL the SAME woodworker, or … he/she should probably find another hobby, and … will have to … in about an hour


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## Philzoel (Dec 26, 2011)

If it really works I may have to upgrade.

DOES IT REALLY DO AS GOOD or better JOB.?


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Phil-

All of the reviews I've seen say that-even WITHOUT the braking technology-the SawStop is as good as, or better than, the other cabinet saws in its class.

In other words … if it interests you … you can buy it because it seems to be an exceptionally well-made and accurate saw, and consider the "safety feature" just a bonus.


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## mrg (Mar 10, 2010)

Phil,

Does your local Woodcraft have a shop that they teach classes or you can buy blocks of time? If so they may have a SS and if they do ask if they could let you try it, tell them you are interested in purchasing one. I used one at the Woodcraft that I go to and can tell you it is a nice saw. When I am ready to replace my Delta contractor saw this will be the saw I get. My best friend has a Uni saw which is also a great saw and after using both the Uni and SS it's a toss up. The SS wins for the safety they are compatibly priced.


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

The Sawstop is built well by all accounts. Over at Marc Adams School they've run Delta, Jet, Powermatic and I think a General over the past several years. The staff informed me that the Sawstops (they replaced all but the Jet since it had a sliding table) required less initial tuning than the other saws.

If I'm ever at the point of buying a cabinet saw I'll get the Sawstop since the company was wise enough to make it high quality and they also put a dust shroud around the blade.

If the attempt to make the Sawstop device mandatory didn't succeed then I'm glad to hear it. My latest information on the topic came from a monthly publication so it was a little dated. Delta, Powermatic and the other companies will likely be forced to add one to new saw models reasonably soon anyhow simply because most consumers seem to want it.


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## Philzoel (Dec 26, 2011)

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and information. I wish I had bought one 8 mo ago. I was not aware of the technology as I am new to woodcrafting.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

Neil, if you split your finger does that make 2 finger out of one? Maybe that guy could get to 6,000 fingers. I have seen a table saw in action on a hand and it does a lot of things in only parts of a second. Sorry for taking the thought out of this topic guys.


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## Jimmy0x52 (Feb 7, 2012)

I think they (the govt) should let me use the money from my HSA to pay for a SawStop.


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## surfin2 (Oct 24, 2009)

Stephen Colbert Takes Sizzle Out of SawStop-


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## Martyroc (Feb 1, 2012)

I agree with Jimmy, if you want the safety issue of this unit pressed than how about a little help, I still do not agree with forcing the issue but maybe a little help? The SS is a great saw I have read all the reviews and set up to tuning perfectly seems less than a lot of other choices out there.

@Grandpa you have not really taken the thought out of this, as I could step off the curb and get hit by a bus, are we going to require all buses to only drive at 2 mph? I am pretty sure a bus doing 30 might cause more damage when it hits you, rather than destroying your hand in the saw.I think although you lose your hand, a bus would probably take your life.

I would purchase the SS tomorrow, but I have a problem with the owner not the technology.


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

Hmmmm…so what happens when your saw blade hits a bug sleeping in the wood? BAM! down time while waiting for parts? I found 2 bugs the diameter of a pencil in a live edge piece of lemonheart last year…

what happens when the computer chip fails or vibrates loose? how would you even know???

It just seems to me that if companies A,B, and C all sell ts for $3000… but only ONE of them has fancy finger saving technology built in…then THAT company had to skimp somewhere else to offer the saw at that price…steel, power, wiring, somewhere. ESPECIALLY if the company is run by a lawyer!

I guess we'll find out when a powermatic PM2000 comes out with the same finger saving option…more money or less weight than the current model?

think I'll skip the SS…and stick with featherboards and cross cut sleds…

tr


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

I was trying to say I was sorry for taking the thread away from the original thought or intent. I was making a silly comment to Neil or someone. The Sawstop works on conductivity. If the tissue, or bug gut or foil sheet on the outside or the liquid from the pressure treated or not dried cedar board is cut into then WHAM! the blade stop fires and the blade is toast as is the cartridge. It happens as I understand it.


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## Martyroc (Feb 1, 2012)

Hi Grandpa,

I read all the FAQ's on the SS site, then to confirm I contacted them, if you are using very wet lumber, something that might mist when you cut it, it would most likely trip the safety, however, there is an override that you can use that will disable the safety feature, but still will give you a warning light that the brake would have engaged. Grandpa I value your opinion on here as I do everybody's, I might not agree with it all the time, but that's the beauty of having our own opinions.

I will say it again, I think SS is a great idea, and I have read enough to know it is a high quality saw, how it is being presented to be mandatory is where I take issue.


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

I don't really know how the SS works, but I suspect it's not really "conductivity", which requires not one but two connections, and is rather more related to "capacitance". Some touch screen technology uses that mechanism, and that's how the touch switches you used to see around works. Since you don't have to ground yourself to get the SS to fire, it's not likely actual conductive sensing. There is something called a "virtual ground" effect that could be part of how they do it, but as far as I know, that's not reliable enough for this kind of mechanism.

If I'm right, the bug won't fire the mechanism. You need a large body to change the capacitance, and the bug wouldn't be big enough. The hot dog is big enough.

I think consensus is that the SS has more mechanism (electronics) then older saws, and that leads to some maintenance problems that older designs don't have. However, the quality of the implementation appears to be excellent, so the incidence of problems seems to be low. Every vendor has QA issues; the question is how many issues, and SS seems to be pretty darn good.

There is a part of the anti-SS faction around here that has puzzled me. I get the issue of should government require such a safety feature. What I don't get is "Since I disagree with the government requiring it, and the inventor is partially responsible for getting the government to require it, I will refuse to purchase something that may very well save me from an amputation". I mean, if you don't think it will help you, don't buy it, but just because the guy got the CPSC to regulate doesn't make the product unworthy of consideration if it will help you.


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

From an electrical viewpoint, the blade and arbor must be electrically isolated from the rest of the saw. Otherwise, you would trip the safety just by touching the saw. This is what makes retrofitting so difficult. A faulty installation would comprimise the function of the device.

I used to make a digital version of the JFET touch lamp circuit Mr. Gass brags about on his demo videos. In my digital version, a simple timing circuit is set up where a pulse is put out on the sensing device (the blade in this case) and a signal input is monitered for the 0 to 1 digital transition of the device. The micrchip has a counter that records the baseline value of how much time it takes to switch. The timing circuit is capacitvely biased to have a large effect for changes in capacitance. 
When someone touches the blade, the timing has a dramatic change that is recorded by the microchip and the appropriate action can be taken.

The effect is not limited to touch, but can be set sensitive enough to detect proximity. I used to sell this circuit to control "talking" vending machines that would begin pitching a sound track, or change its displays to respond when people are nearby. It boosted same-machine vending sales over 30% and was very successful.

I can see that in the near future, an equivelant braking device that is reusable and that doesn't ruin blades will be introduced into the market. (An arbor brake maybe.) Until then, it is good to see this working solution is available on the open market-even if it enjoys a bit of a legal monopoly.


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## Martyroc (Feb 1, 2012)

Hi brtech, I understand what you mean and I offer this anaology. How many Jews do think would by an oven from a Nazi, even if it was the best oven out there and no chance of you ever getting burned. Probably not many. Ok not the best analogy but that's what I came up with in short notice. I have a few principles not a lot, but I could not do business with a company that uses there main way to make money by forceing the product on the public, and using fear to do it. Like I said I think it's a great saw and the safety feature is very nice and could save many accidents. But it is being put out there all wrong, that's my opinion, and I do not want to force it on anybody. I have been woodworking for over 20 years and I have not had any real accidents, yet. It could very well be a matter of time, but it's my choice. Not some corporate greedy lawyer that is more concerned with how much money he can make. I am all for free enterprise, but his tactics are appalling and I will not be associated with that, again my opinion, take it disgard It, disagree with it, that's your choice no one else's. Thats my point.


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

Here is my issue with SS. I really don't like the idea of being told that I MUST use this technology. Don't like the way its being orchestrated - don't see any reason to make it law - can see many reasons to not make it law.

I have dinged my finger on my jointer, gotten hurt with chisels, hand saws, screwdrivers, hammers, pocket knife, and even the edge of a board (really sharp edge). Had an inexpensive table saw once that as I was cutting a piece of plywood, the thing tipped over while running - that scared me. My point is - this industry, and everything else you do in life has the potential of getting you hurt. If I get hurt, odds are that it is my stupidity - if not, then different rules apply. They have taken wood and metal shops out of our schools "well, because someone could get hurt." These courses taught the kids how to be safe with dangerous equipment and how to think. They want to make it unlawful to go out there, use equipment that is sharp and actually make something. I am now seeing crap in the stores that is all cut up and ready to heat up and eat - soon it will be against the law to have a sharp kichen knife.

Get a grip, tools are sharp, there is risk, be accountable for your own actions - learn to deal or take up knitting - oh, can't do that, it has long pointy needles and you could get hurt. My head hurts.


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## SuperCubber (Feb 23, 2012)

I think it's a great product, and they are talking about making that tech mandatory in The States. That, I don't agree with. It's expensive, but if one can afford it, I think it's the right move.


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## Sanity (Jan 13, 2011)

I have mixed views about the SS. As others have said it is a very good idea but it is not a definitive safety feature for a saw, for example it does not prevent kick-back. If there is a miss-fire because of wet wood it is going to be expensive as it trashes both the cartridge and the blade. Also like others have said I don't care for the tactics and methods of the company founder - I do not believe that his aims are totally altruistic shall we say. For now I will stick with my Unisaw and try and make sure that the safety guard is always attached…...

For a scary video on the potential dangers of kick-back take a look at the following:
http://www.newwoodworker.com/basic/kickback2012.html


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## JohnEinNJ (Dec 22, 2011)

without weighing in on either side of this: a recent issue of Fine Woodworking (maybe January?) has a good discussion of the inventor's motives, an interesting exposition of the table saw manufacturers' reaction to his attempts to get it legislated, and some speculation about why other table saws don't have more safety features.


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## JohnEinNJ (Dec 22, 2011)

well, I was looking for a link to that article in FWW, and found this shocking report instead. A must-read for all true Americans.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/45040/stephen-colbert-takes-the-sizzle-out-of-sawstop


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Said it before.
I'll say it again.

If you think Steve Gass is somehow unique in his approach, then you really haven't ever worked at an upper management level, in Corporate America.

If you don't like his tactics, I'd recommend you stop buying anything, ever, lest you be supporting very similar business practices.

And-as always-be very careful, in your woodworking, either way


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

I might be wrong here, or guilty of taking an overly simplistic view, but isn't it cynical of Steve Gass to try and push mandatory safety precautions on all table saws when the SawStop technology is protected by patent law.
Effectively, if any other saw manufacturer were to incorporate a brake triggered by flesh sensing technology, SawStop could seek an injunction citing the flesh sensing technology was copied from them and is protected by patent.
The only way another manufacturer could incorporate this technology would be to license it from SawStop.
Or, alternatively, wait another 20 or so years for the patent to expire.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

renners: from a strictly business standpoint, Gass has a couple of avenues for marketing his products/technology:

- Try to license it to existing TS manufacturers. Allegedly, he tried, but they couldn't make a deal;

- Market the feature, and explain well the benefit, then let the market decide how successful he is, and at what price;

- Try to wrangle legislation favorable to his technology, potentially by spending LESS money, and then count the money as it rolls in.

As I've said, I'm a former corporate VP. This is how business in this country works-more than most people would ever care to know. Is Gass BREAKING any laws ? On the contrary. He's trying to INFLUENCE legislation, in a way that will be most profitable to him.

Anybody ever heard of a "lobbyist ?" Be careful about pointing fingers. Both sides do it, and they do it HUGE. Most companies and industries who pay lobbyists actually TRY to mandate THEIR product, and OUTLAW the competitors'.

It's really a matter of tactics and degree, but it sure isn't anything unusual.

If Gass doesn't succeed in convincing us (via the marketplace) that his feature is worth the money, then the competition can choose NOT to offer anything similar-either of their own design, or by potentially infringing on his patents.

Or they can move slowly, and try to find a profitable solution that won't materially adversely affect sales.

If he isn't making enough of a splash in the TS market, competitors can sit idly by, biding their time, and watching him closely.

IF, on the other hand, he succeeds with some sort of mandate … they're all going to have to scramble, and a few WILL likely infringe on his patents.

I don't like his tactics any more than most people, but … I'm well aware that they're far, far, FAR from unique, original, or isolated.

Like Nixon-as they say: he just got caught ;-)


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

Makes you wonder what he's more concerned about…

Saving fingers or making money.

Does anybody know if there's a video of SawStop in action where the hotdog is travelling at more than snail's pace into the blade, I'm curious to see what would happen to the wiener if it were to glance across the top of the blade (like you were pulling your hand back across the blade).


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## stevenmadden (Dec 10, 2009)

*Disclaimer* - I own a 3hp SawStop ICS. Best table saw I have ever used, bar none. If this bothers you, don't read on…

That being said, I am so tired of the argument that "the government should not be allowed to dictate to me what table saw I buy and with what features", etc. While I agree with this, the people spouting this argument should wake up and look around. The government is doing this very thing in so many aspects of our lives that it is hard to keep track. Before I go on, let me reiterate, *I do not think that the government should mandate the use of the blade braking technology in table saws*. I think it should be left up to the consumer to decide. My problem is this; people have latched on to this one example of government encroachment as if it is unusual and won't let go of it. I just read in the news today that legislation has been introduced that will require ALL vehicles to have rear facing cameras by 2014. Why is no one up in arms about this? I personally don't want a rear facing camera on my vehicle. Why should I be forced to buy one? Who is the camera manufacturer who is pushing and profiting on this one? And the list could go on and on.

The way I see it, if I want to ride a motorcycle without a helmet, then that is my prerogative. Common sense tells me that this is unsafe and I would never do this, but it should still be my choice. By the way, I do not ride motorcycles because I think they are inherently dangerous, with or without a helmet.

I find it hard to believe that people would forgo the safety of a revolutionary blade braking technology just to make a point. As valid as that point may be, this is not be the best instance of government intrusion in which "to draw a line in the sand", so to speak. While I think that the Federal Government of the United States of America has become something that it was never intended to be, and I do not have a fondness for lawyers (patent or otherwise), I still purchased my SawStop because it had the best, most advanced, most reliable (sorry *terryR*, but your comment was ill informed) safety features on the market. It was a no brainer for me and not the place I was willing to "draw a line in the sand" because the governemnt might some day tell me that I have to have this feature or because some greedy lawyer is after more money (imagine that, and in a capitalist society, heaven forbid). Please forgive the sarcasm in my previous statement, but like I said, I am so tiered of this issue and the way that it has been blown out of proportion, and as *NBeener* eluded to, beat to death.

One last thought before I dawn my flame suit; whether or not people make their point by not purchasing the SawStop and thereby not supporting this "greedy lawyer" in his evil money making endeavors, the government will legislate (or not legislate) this issue notwithstanding the efforts of the consumers who tried to vote against it with their purchasing power. Happens every day (well, maybe not every day, but it sounds more convincing that way).

*Philzoel*: I apologize for making my first and hopefully last rant about this issue in your thread. To answer your original question (even though it seems to have already been answered by many), yes it is worth it, yes it does work, and I don't know what the statistics are for finger losses on a table saw (but I absolutely don't want to become one). Happy hunting.

Steven


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

Steven - you make good points -BUT
If this technology and similar technology had been around for years and matured, this would be a standard. The owner of Sawstop solicited a still unproven technology to the industry and the industry didn't like his terms - because they were absurd. In an "I'll force you to do what I want" episode or tantrum, he went to the govt. and pleaded his case to make his technology the REQUIRED technology. This happened before he had a finished product and from what I hear, there have been more than a few iterations since then.

If the govt had come out and told the industry that they would like a safety device and Gazz had come up with his idea and had a decent price tag to it, things would be different. Gazz threw a temper tantrum and expects everyone to pony up - he can pound salt - and I don't care what he makes.


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## Philzoel (Dec 26, 2011)

Thanks Steven. May you have the last say about this. I personally do not care about the politics. That can/will go on forever and never affect me. All I want is a good saw and everyone says SS is one. so….........

My problem now is I *just* bought a Jet 10" proshop about 6 mo ago. What I am now MAD about is I did not know about SawStop then and the Woodcraft guy I trusted did not tell me about it. I am a nubby woodworker and had to trust someone. In fairness to WC guy, He got me best saw for the buck. I wish I had know about this site too. You guys wood have told me RIGHT I am sure.

Will there be retro fits? Are there after market brakes out yet? Can I sell my Jet?


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## Philzoel (Dec 26, 2011)

Oh by the way, even as a nubby I know* stopping the blade* will not stop a kickback projectile going at jet speed.

Table saws are dangerous.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Phil: there's really nothing else out there, at the moment, that's comparable to the "safety feature" of the SawStop.

You can-of course-sell your Jet, but you may lose half what you paid.

Also … it's a little iffy, to me, to blame the Woodcraft guy. I do my own research before making major purchases. You probably should have, too.

If you want a SawStop, you will probably take a financial hit on the Jet. Not an easy call, I'm sure.

Good luck !


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## Philzoel (Dec 26, 2011)

Where can I sell my Jet? Any re-bait would help. Paid $1200 could I get $600? Makes SS cost $1900. Still a lot.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

I'd start with your local CraigsList, and maybe the CraigsLists for the cities closest to you, since-in many cases-it's darned expensive to ship a table saw.

You'll want to start looking at those websites, and eBay, and around the Internet to see if you can get a sense of what your saw is worth. While you could end up at half what you paid, I'd certainly start by asking higher.


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## stevenmadden (Dec 10, 2009)

*Philzoel*: You are correct regarding kickback, but the SawStop does have a riving knife which takes care of that problem (at least I have never had anything kickback while using a riving knife/splitter). It shouldn't be too difficult to sell your slightly used Jet table saw, I was able to sell mine for about $100.00 less than what I paid for it when I upgraded to my SawStop. Good luck.

Steven


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## jerkylips (May 13, 2011)

to NBeener -

*renners: from a strictly business standpoint, Gass has a couple of avenues for marketing his products/technology:

- Try to license it to existing TS manufacturers. Allegedly, he tried, but they couldn't make a deal;

- Market the feature, and explain well the benefit, then let the market decide how successful he is, and at what price;

- Try to wrangle legislation favorable to his technology, potentially by spending LESS money, and then count the money as it rolls in.

As I've said, I'm a former corporate VP. This is how business in this country works-more than most people would ever care to know. Is Gass BREAKING any laws ? On the contrary. He's trying to INFLUENCE legislation, in a way that will be most profitable to him.

Anybody ever heard of a "lobbyist ?" *

To that I would add…."who RESPECTS lobbyists?" While I don't disagree that what you're describing does happen, there's a difference between good business and 'win at all costs' tactics. I'm sure Gass is looking at this as his "big score". If it goes through, he likely won't need to care about what people think of him - he can go buy a secluded island somewhere & tune it out.

BUT….what if he's not successful? Look just on this board at how many people will refuse to buy a SS solely on principle? He's taking a gamble.

Last note - I'll never buy a SS, but that's just because I enjoy cutting hot dogs on my table saw…


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

I do chicken wings.
Who knows, I could use a nice cabinet saw for $200.00.


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## jerkylips (May 13, 2011)

*Just wait for the day when we have a Festool saw with Sawstop technology. This site will implode…*


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

Oh, it wil be fun!

I am hoping for someone to come up with a different technology than Gazz and the industry to latch on to it and put Gazz out of business. If I had the skill set, I would invent something to compete.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

"To that I would add…."who RESPECTS lobbyists?" While I don't disagree that what you're describing does happen, there's a difference between good business and 'win at all costs' tactics."

Who does which, and how do you know ?

I'll continue to beat THIS horse to death: I worked for years, as a VP in Corporate America (NYSE-traded companies). If you don't think this is how much, if not most, business is done-either at a business level or an industry level, then-as I always say … with respect … you probably simply don't know.

I'm basically saying what *stevenmadden* said: people are choosing this hill to die on, and for not much good and valid reason. Some are denying themselves an excellent saw in the process, and-again-IMHO-for not much good and valid reason.

If you don't think the products you buy have people behind them who dream of ways to mandate what they sell, and outlaw what the competitor sells … you probably just don't know what goes on in those companies.

Seriously. It's capitalism, folks. When you fight tooth and nail to support it, advocate it, de-regulate it, champion it, wave its flag, and decry any other economic system … this IS what you get-like it, hate it, or blissfully unaware of it.

As I always say … I don't care much for Gass's approach. Maybe I just know he's nothing more and nothing less than a Capitalist, by definition


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

It's highly unlikely that the CPSC will require Sawstop technology. Instead, they will require that table saws not cut fingers off if they enter the blade area. SS technology may be the only current technology that fits that description, but if anyone comes up with another way, that can be used.

CPSC tries pretty hard not to wire a regulation for a specific technology, but sometimes the need is high enough, in their judgement, that they write a regulation they know only one company can supply at the time they wrote it. The devil is in the details of the words in the regulation, and the industry will have the ability to argue the words so that they maximize the probability of having other possible solutions. The push back will be in what protection is offered from alternate wording. It will be interesting to see what the shape of the first draft rule is. What would be best is a performance rule = hands entering some zone cause only minor injury. What Gass wants is a mechanism rule (stop the blade in some number of milliseconds and make it move out of the way in some number of milliseconds). CPSC often does do mechanism rules (this kind of guard with these minimum dimensions), like a riving knife rule. The rule won't say you must use Gass's technology.

I also agree with Neil; this is the way all regulators work, and lots and lots of companies spend millions of dollars trying to get regulators to write rules that favor them. It is the American way, and changing it would affect nearly every regulator in local, state and national agencies. CPSC is no different in any material respect than the FCC, the FDA, DOT, or any other of the dozens of regulatory agencies we have in the federal government. You can argue that we don't need CPSC. You can argue that no safety rules are needed in any industry. I suspect you won't get very far with either of those arguments, but you can try. Arguing that we need the CPSC for some things, but not table saw regulations is a tough way to split the ox.

Where where you when the riving knife regulation was passed? It added cost. Cost was passed on to you. You have no choice. If you buy a new saw, it has to have a riving knife, CPSC says so. Is it that the cost was too low for you to care, or that there was no patent on riving knives? Suppose there was, and the cost was $5 more because of it? Is the absolute cost the thing? Or is it the principal? Certainly it can't be the fact that Gass had an idea and got a patent and tried to license his patent. It has to be the actions of the CPSC. Why is that different from the riving knife?

CPSC does a pretty straightforward calculation - they compare the cost to society of having a regulation to the cost of not having one. They have some very bizarre data on what a life is worth, or a finger. Deciding to regulate isn't solely driven by that calculation, but it's part of the process. The effect may be to add some costs to the user, but lower costs to the rest of us (who pay for insurance, and for uninsured people who get hurt, ...)
Its grizzly, but it makes some sense. If you could save 3 fingers a year, but the cost to add it was $20M, they probably wouldn't require it. I understand the calculation for blade stop on a table saw to be pretty darn positive, because of the relatively large number of amputations.


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## Scott10 (Jan 27, 2010)

Could this be the "other" technology? Found this on Fine Woodworking, its called the Whirlwind.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/40477/blade-brake-inventor-aims-to-compete-with-sawstop

Here is the Youtube site:

http://www.youtube.com/user/DavidatWW


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

I think the problem is "Senses when fingers are in danger and STOPS the saw blade in 1/8 OF A SECOND!". The SS does that in a few milliseconds. What that means in practice is that the sense area of the Whirlwind would have to be much larger than the SS. It would fire much farther away from the blade than the SS would.

An interesting statistic would be what rate of speed should be assumed for hands moving (how far can you move from the point at which the sensor trips to the time the blade stops, and therefore how far away the sensor must be with that assumed speed). It can't be the average work feed rate. Has to be something faster than that, but how fast? If you moved reaaaaallly sloooowlllly, then 1/8 second would work. If you moved real fast, you could cut your hand off.

It also seems to need the blade guard, which we often think doesn't work for us because it obscures the cut area or doesn't ride up properly on the part we are cutting etc. It's a tradeoff.


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## jordanusmc (Oct 17, 2011)

I have a question about the SawStop video. Why in the video does he make it a point to soak his finger in some sort of saltwater brine before putting his finger to the test? I understand that when his wet finger touches the blade it completes a circuit, but my fingers are usually not dripping with sweat or any other liquid when I am using my TS. Would the saw still stop if your finger was not dripping with sweat? I assume he is using the water in order to ensure that there is enough conductivity to complete the circuit.


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## Philzoel (Dec 26, 2011)

If Gass was a *woodworker* he would have offered his technology at very reasonable cost to enhance safety for all.

I will offer my jet on Craigslist and see what's what. If I cold get $900 I would be happy.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

He IS a woodworker.


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## Philzoel (Dec 26, 2011)

I guess he is not my favorite one then. Not on my buddy list.


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## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

I'm just afraid I'd have to give up my custom leather push sticks. :=(


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## Swampy (Dec 25, 2011)

I answered Phil in the beggining of this conversation about the fact that I had just purchased a SS and enjoyed it so far. I still am a happy camper with my new purchase. Trust me I did my homework for months before I bought it searching online about all the pros and cons on varying aspects of buying a table saw (saftey being one of those). I understand both sides of the fence on this issue but when the lights went down at the end of the day my thoughts wernt about if this Gass guy was right or wrong, they involved alot more parameters then just political views. That being said Im glad I purchased my SS and yes it was a ding in my wallet but I figured I probably waste more money on stupid things in a year and this was gonna be spent on something good for a change.


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## Bagtown (Mar 9, 2008)

Holey Moley.

Isn't this horse dead YET???


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## Martyroc (Feb 1, 2012)

Hi Bagtown, it looks like nothing will kill this horse. My wife read some of the posts and asked me how I remain safe, I went out to my shop grabbed a 2×4x8 and brought inside and told her this is my push stick for safety. As usual she calle me an idiot and I went back out to my shop.;-)


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## knothead (Aug 4, 2007)

It all boils down to this…......... if your woodworking is a hobby then you need your hands to make a living, right? if you lose your fingers or your hand at your hobby how do you make a living? If you want the airbag then get it and hope you never need to use it. I depend on my hands and more than that my dexterity to earn my living and loss of either would be catastrophic to my life AND my livelyhood. The SMALL extra money spent on the safety feature, regardless of how the confounded thing got there is more than worth the potential cost.

I am a free marketeer as many of the others are and I do not want to be forced to do anything either but there are non-sawstop choices out there so I certainly was not forced when I chose sawstop. if you feel that strongly about it buy it. Speaking of being forced, we are ALL forced to buy the bladeguard with any saw you buy, you can't leave it off, but then most people take it off and set it aside, Sawstop is no different.

There have been many posts on here lately about an OUTSTANDING woodworker and a WONDERFUL human being - Charles Niell - watch his videos and look at his left hand, do you think he planned for his Powermatic saw to mangle his hand like that? You will also notice a Sawstop in his new videos. Learn from someone who has already been down the road you are approaching BEFORE you are in the hospital.

Spend your money on whatever you wish but consider the life long implications of a severe tablesaw injury when you make your decision. My brother in law has just over 1/2 of his right hand left after a saw incident, is that acceptable to you? It wasn't to me and I bought the Sawstop. Happy Shopping!


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## agallant (Jul 1, 2010)

Ok love sawstop or hate it and politics aside I can say that I am the only person on here who owned one then sold it. The break is a good idea but any time I thought I may set it off by using wet wood or something with a nail/staple in it I turned the break off. That is why I got rid of it. I found myself in the position that I had the break off more than on. I think if you don't worry about the $150-$200 it will cost you every time it goes off accident or not than go for it, but if you are going to turn it off because you worry about an accidental trip than the break is not worth much.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

I'm very curious about your story, though, *agallant*.

From everything I've read, seen, and heard, the SS is as good as its competition, in every respect, even WITHOUT considering the brake.

Meaning: why did you wind up selling it ? Did you go from the SS contractor saw TO a full-cabinet Uni ? If so, then … I get it.

And … like you … not looking to fan the political flames, but … HAVE been curious about your story.

Uni's are fantastic saws, of course, so …. I'm sure you're thrilled with it


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## agallant (Jul 1, 2010)

The Sawstop is every bit as good as it;s competitors. The contractor saw is just as nice as any other contractor saw and the full size 3hp and 5hp are just as nice as a unisaw or PM2000. The issue I have is that the contractor saw is about $1,400 more than other contractor saws, and for what? A break that I was turning off all of the time? Not a good value. If I had gotten the 3HP saw than I would have keeped it but I got the contractor saw and if I was going to have the break off all of the time I wanted my money back while it was still worth something and just get a 3hp unisaw (used).

If I had got the 3hp sawstop break or not it is in the same price range as the other 3hp saws so there is still a value there because it is just as nice as the others break or not. So my advice is if you are going to get one get the 3HP, you won't feel ripped off because at the end of the day it is the same price as MP2000 or unisaw and just as nice.

Here is my review:
http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/2416


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Thank you.

I appreciate that. I'll read through your original review, later. Meanwhile, enjoy the Uni !

As I've mentioned, around here, I bought a 5HP ICS SawStop that … at least for now … is still sitting happily in crates and boxes :-(


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## agallant (Jul 1, 2010)

Hey man, I wish I fronted the extra cash for the 3HP or 5HP saw, If I turned the break off on that I would still have spent as much as a uni or 2000 and it is just as nice as those so I could justify keeping it. You chose wisely I did not and when I did the math from what sold the SS for and what I needed to upgrade to the 3HP the numbers just weren't there so I went for the used uni which was $100 less than what I sold my SS contractor for. You will love your saw and it is a solid product.

-AG


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

I'm just worn out with the controversy. It works. I don't have one. Might buy one if I live long enough and my current saw craps out. I can't figger out how to operate our new car.
Now, where did I put my chisel? OOOOOPS! No safety device there…..........I'll go to jail while wearing my seat belt (which I love).
Bill


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## Martyroc (Feb 1, 2012)

@Neil, Uncrate that damn saw already! It's not even mine but the suspense is killing me! I can barely make it home from the store before I open a new tool, heck I only make it home 25% of the time with the tool still packed up ;-D


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

*Martin*: we're trying to plan a move, and the shop is currently in the basement … which … doesn't have 220V.

The idea of getting 700 pounds of saw down there, setting it up, getting the 220 in, and then … before TOO long … having to UNDO all of that … to me … is worse than the waiting.

And the waiting … is brutal.

I try not to think about it, and … covered it all in a big tarp, so I don't have to see it. Once in a while, though, I dream I own it, and lift up the tarp.

It's a very emotional moment ;-)

And … about to tear into $700 worth of African Mahogany … I would LOVE to have my SS up and running. But everybody who WOULD have to help me … knows we're trying to move, and that they'd be signing up to help me a FEW times.

Sadly, my friends aren't as dumb as I need them to be ;-)

So … I hear ya' ... I hear ya' .... !


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## Martyroc (Feb 1, 2012)

Hi Neil, you need new friends, ha, ha. I try to make friends with lower intelligence that me, not that easy. At least that way I look smart by comparison. As I said I'm not that smart, if I lived closer, I'd help you


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

I was trying to figure out if me moving closer to you … just to get your help … really solved anything ;-)

Don't worry. It'll be a vintage saw, when I review it


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## rob2 (Nov 27, 2007)

I severed the Index finger and damaged the middle finger of my left hand. Mine were reattached. Two months off work. Total medical bill $140,000. Chewed allot of percocet

My lovely wife said SawStop or take up fishing. She wasn't even kidding. My SawStop 3hp pro is just awesome.


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## TomHintz (Feb 4, 2009)

While doing a review of my new SawStop I found that there are a few misconceptions about it that I tried to address in my review, particularly in Part 2. What surprised me most about my SawStop Professional Cabinet Saw (they make three models) was how good the saw around that safety system is. There is a lot of great engineering and thinking in this saw including the best dust collection I have ever seen and by a wide margin.

SawStop Review Part 1
SawStop Review Part 2


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Why in the video does he make it a point to soak his finger in some sort of saltwater brine before putting his finger to the test?

In order for the cinematographer to take the video with enough depth of field they have to use very strong hot lights. He did not wet his hand because of the blade but to avoid being burned by the lights. In the video it looks as if he is going very slow, in reality he pushed his finger very quick. He explained all this on the FWW forum I think.


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## EdwardR (Mar 24, 2012)

I am new here so please be nice 

I was contemplating what shop tools to buy for my new shop and my grandson said to me pop-pop can you teach me how to woodwork. Well two things struck me first was I need to learn myself and the second was SAWSTOP.

I am a tool guy just was never a wood tool guy. So i looked very closely at this saw and decided that safety factor taken out of the decision it was still a quality buy. I purchased the pro 1.75 HP with 36" fence since the price point was better then the contractor with all the goodies added. The difference about $270. Got free mobile base with it.

I am curious about one thing. I set a nickel ( on End) on the table and they started this saw. It did not MOVE. Can all the saws of this price point do this.

I do not agree with mandating ( HOME OWNERS) to purchase this saw. I am on the line on the pro shops.

I do understand from my research that this technology was offered to all the manufactures first and they turned it down. I am not sure that was a wise move.


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## TomHintz (Feb 4, 2009)

There are lots of very good saws that won't pass the nickel test which is why I consider that more of a parlor trick than important on a table saw. I had a series of heavily used Unisaws and only one would do the nickel thing but all ran perfectly.
You also have to be sure all four points of contact with the floor are equal and that the table top is level to the world for any machine to pass the nickel test even when it reallyh is that smooth.


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## Durnik150 (Apr 22, 2009)

Just a little point to add to the discussion. Domer touched on this before. You don't necessarily have to replace the blade when you trigger the safety system of a SS. You can remove the blade from the cartridge it is now buried in and have it tuned up and maybe a couple of tips replaced. After that your blade is back in service. So the cost of the cartridge and the blade tune up is the true cost. You do NOT have to replace the blade every time.


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