# still searching for planes



## maljr1980 (Sep 4, 2011)

anyone know anything about a line of planes made in india carried by traditional woodworker, called rider? they only have some block planes and some shouder planes, prices are middle of the road.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Hmmm. The main question would be why not get some pre-WW2 Stanleys. Probably cheaper and better quality.

Do you have a link for them?


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## maljr1980 (Sep 4, 2011)

http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/Planes-Made-in-India/products/834/
i dont really know what to look for in a plane on ebay, and what is in to bad of a shape, ive been looking at possibly the woodriver planes or stanley sweethearts, or just biting the bullet and getting a ln or lv, but my wallet says otherwise


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

I'm luke warm to indian planes from a quality perspective. The shoulder planes look like stanley knock offs and the block planes look to be LN knock-offs.

Are there flea markets and antique stores where you live? You may want to walk through a few to see what is available. Are you aware of where to go to get info on planes?

Also, what are you building?


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## tom427cid (Aug 21, 2011)

Keep track of local auctions,they generally(at least around here) will hav misc planes that will clean up nicely.
tom


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## tirebob (Aug 2, 2010)

I wouldn't… Look at the casting quality of their Router plane. Around the open area above the bade you can see sharp edges etc. If they can't even get a clean one for a photo that is supposed to help sell their products, that doesn't give one a lot of faith. A simple truth is good ain't cheap and cheap ain't good…

As others have said, if you are trying to avoid spending the price needed to buy new quality tools, look for good vintage options. You will get a better product than cheaply made modern options., that being said, even a new premium LV Apron Plane is only a $20.00 more than these cheaper offerings…


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## tom427cid (Aug 21, 2011)

I don't think that the casting flash would bother me as much as the quality,or lack of,of the cutter. The other item of concern(to me) is how the cutter is adjusted. I prefer cutters that have some sort of mechanical means of adjustment.
And to address the concerns of someone who is new and wants to spend their money wisely-sometimes you have to make a mistake to learn the lesson. I will be the first to admit that when I started I bought some tools that I shouldn't have,I look at them like orphans-there is somebody out there who will love them.Until then I will give them a good home.
tom


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Compare the router plane with a Stanley Original. This one is a fine collector example, so the the price is higher than you would see for one at a flea market or in an Antique store. I normally see them in the $20-$25 range.










http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Stanley-No-271-Router-Plane-W-Orig-Box-Nice-No-Reserve-/110741505692?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c8b5469c


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Also, you can often find good old Stanley #60 1/2 planes for around $10. If you spend a little time getting to recogonize quality older versions, you can end up with a real nice plane.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stanley-No-60-1-2-Low-Angle-block-Plane-early-better-made-type-no-reserve-/320757515893?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aaea34675

Another good plane is the Stanley #65. I got this one in an antique store for $25.



The standard angle equivalents are the #9 1/2 and the #18…


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

What type of planes are you looking for? I agree with Wayne. Start watching on ebay to see what the pricing is. I tend to get more of my finds in the wild, but deals can be found on ebay. If you go over to Hand Planes of your Dreams we often question each other on pricing of different types. Wayne, myself and a few other just had a conversation about a #62 I was looking at at an antique shop. Look, ask and buy, you can't go wrong.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Also, I addressed the block planes and router plane on the web page. I would also say that the shoulder plane is the type of plane that I would be most worried about tight tollerences in the machining. If I was doing a bunch of joint work I would spend the money on a Veritas shoulder plane and be done with it.










http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=48430&cat=1,41182,48945

If money was tight, I would get a hock blade or kit and make my own.










http://hocktools.com/Kits.htm#KS


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I'd probably make my own either way, but then I tend to be under the assumption if you need a plane, you will need more than one. Look at my projects, for every woodworking projects there are 3 plane projects.(maybe more)


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## Tomcat1066 (Jan 3, 2008)

Just a general guideline for me, but if it's made in India and I have any questions about the quality, I don't buy it. Tools are one of those areas where you can buy quality and maybe cry once or you can by cheap and cry over and over again.

My own personal suggestion is to buy an old Stanley off of eBay. So long as it's complete, it'll serve the purpose here. Once you have it, restore it lovingly back to useable condition (assuming, of course, that it's not useable when you buy it). Even if it's still crap that was rusted because it was only good to use as a boat anchor, you still no how to restore these old tools.

Another option is to search for antique tool websites and look for "user" planes. These often don't really need restoration for use, but aren't collectible and therefore less expensive.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

There's really no way around paying for a quality shoulder plane. They generally get what they're worth. Aside from that, though, wonderful US made vintage planes can be had for very little monies. They have more charm, too. That poorly cast and painted router plane above would quickly become more trouble than its worth. $30 can buy you a block plane that you'll use until you're gone.


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## wingate_52 (May 14, 2011)

I have seen and handled some Rider planes at Axminster Power tools in the UK. I was not impressed with the quality or feel. I have a mix of old Stanley and Record planes with the exception of a modern Chinese Quangsheng 62. It is really nice, well made and finished. I have reconditioned all my planes with new handles and totes, some new blades and chipbreakers. They get used.


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## maljr1980 (Sep 4, 2011)

they will be used at work, but not used heavily, currently i have a stanley block plane and buck brothers mini bock blane, but would like some nicer tools. are the new stanley sweetheart or woodriver planes good choices? do people recomend vintage tools because if you have to fettle the plane you may as well save money, or will an old fettled stanley out perform a new sweetheart or woodriver plane that has been fettled as well


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

The vintage tools are recommended because the manufacturing quality is equivalent of the the new stanley sweetheart and woodriver tools and they can be found for a lot less. I have found quality planes for $5 or less. If you spend a little time, get some knowledge and are willing to put forth a little effort, you can get some very good tools for little money.

To expand on it. You can find a Type 11 Stanley Bailey #4, #5 and #7 for much less than what you would pay for a wood river and with restoration and fettling save a lot of money.


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

WayneC - I would not ever claim to be a eBay, flea market or estate sale veteran. My time off is limited. Yet, I must say that finding type 11's is not as easy as it would seem. I've be half -a$$ searching for a few months and probably have not been as decisive as I need to be. But it's not as easy as I thought and requires time and some experience.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Types 11 and 12 have the two 1902 and one 1910 patent dates behind the frog. In general, when you buy on ebay look for planes look for ones that have lots of photos including photos of the planes disassembled.










Here is an example of a nice type 11 Jointer. The price is not a bargin (more like fair market value), but it shows what to look for in a plane.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/STANLEY-7-JOINTER-PLANE-SW-LOGO-3-PATD-/370542444664?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56460d0078


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Wayne, thanks for the tips. Really appreciate it. I actually printed out the Rex Mill type study when I went to the last flea market. I've been looking for type 11 -13.

I guess my point is that after being on Lumberjocks I think that is relatively easy to assume from the jists of numerous posts that you can hop on eBay, find you a quick type 11, win the auction for 50 bucks or so, get it home and polish it up and you've got yourself a classic user.

I now appreciate that there is a significant amount of basic plane knowledge, searching through eBay or whatever, then relatively skilled restoration to be done. That is to obtain and achieve a plane that would rival the performance of a new one. Its more complex than some here insinuate. Don't get me wrong I am not criticizing the idea. In fact, I very much respect and applaud it.

Also, for me, as a beginner it takes a small leap of faith to commit hard earned cash on merely pictures of a "fair" market value type 11 jointer when you have no experience. I may have the concepts, the references, and knowledge gained here - but the experience - no. However, that is not going to stop me.

Thanks to all here at LJ's.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

The main thing is to figure out what you need to get your projects done. Bench plane wise there are 3 main functions to be concerned with stock removal, flattening and smoothing. Using a plane in a shooting board is a very useful operation. A #5 or a 5 1/2 will work in the shooting board just fiine. If your doing joint work get a shoulder plane. Etc.

The main thing I recommend is to find a quality plane that is not damages, missing parts, etc. If you buy one made for handymen or one made once the quality had started to decline (e.g. post ww2 as a general rule of thumb) you may cause yourself some heartburn and it might turn you off from handwork.

My reason for recommending type 11/12 is they are fairly easy to identify and they are not all that uncommon. It helps to simplify the process. Also, once you buy one you get a feel for a quality plane and it helps you with buying other planes because there are lots of good brands out there besides stanley (Union, Sargent, Miller Falls, Ohio for example).

I would not recommend paying "fair market value" for a plane off of ebay unless you really know what your looking for. My thoughts would be figure out how to telll that a plane is well made and pre-WW2 and then look for a $5 diamond in the rough to restore.

If your going to drop decent money for a plane spend the money on a Veritas or a Lie-Nielson plane.


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## maljr1980 (Sep 4, 2011)

are the woodriver planes any good?


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## Sirgreggins (Apr 12, 2012)

I bought the 2 plane kit from Grizzly. They are Rider planes. They need some tuning but after that they are AWESOME. The block planes especially. It took me about 1 hr to tune and sharpen the blade. It now take .001" shavings and is a joy to use. The smoothing planes works well too. I will be replacing the blade with a Hock blade to make it perform better. For $75 after shipping for both it can't be beat. Yes it takes some time and TLC but even with a new Hock blade you'll save yourself $300 from the Lie Nielsen's eventough those are the Cadilac of planes. Before i bought these planes i was looking at the Woodriver block plane and much rather the one from grizzly. Much more comfortable in my hand. Just my opinion but this is for anyone young like me trying to get into the hobby with a limited budget.


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## sikrap (Mar 15, 2009)

IMHO, the old Stanleys (as well as Millers Falls, Union, and Sargents) are better planes than the newer stuff. If you buy from the folks that sell here ( myself included), you should get a plane that's ready to go to work when you open the box. Most of us that "rescue" planes take them apart, clean them, make sure the sole is flat, make sure the frog works/seats properly, the adjusters work correctly and sharpen the blade.


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