# Should We Bother with Fine Dust Collection?



## ss4752 (Aug 21, 2014)

DC has been of course been discussed to death, but I have yet to find a direct discussion on this.

I'm an experienced woodworker but am finally putting together my own basement shop and thus haven't thought much about dust collection until recently.

With Memorial Day, I went off and impulsively bought a Harbor Freight DC and a Super Dust Deputy.
The plan was to keep the ductwork as short as possible, mount the HF blower on top of the SSD, and vent directly outside through a basement window, keeping a window on the opposite wall open for replacement air and CO protection.

Then I discovered the Pentz website.

I now know the HF DC + SSD set-up will never come close to the 1000 CFM I need to clear the fine dust, but I can't return the HF DC or the SSD because I stupidly threw the boxes out. This led me to consider a few options to at least try to get the fine dust:

1) Ignore the SSD, keep the collector single stage and vent outside.
2) Ignore the SSD, keep the collector single stage and get a Wynn Filter so I can move around to each machine.
3) Eat the cost and shell out for one of those ClearVue 5 HP DCs.

Of course, because the dust ports on the TS and BS are both 4" (it's stupid, but I'm just not ready to cut holes in them), it seems getting some super fancy DC won't make any difference.

Which leads me to my question: *What if we didn't bother with fine dust collection on equipment at all?*

Why can't I just use the HF DC + SSD for chip collection, wear a good respirator, and blow a fan directly out the 
bulkhead door whenever I run the machines? Is there a good enough air filter I could run to get the airborne dust up to 0.3 microns?

Hope this doesn't overlap too much with what's already been asked.


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## SoCalBonnie (Mar 13, 2019)

I'm at this point, too. I bought plans to make a small footprint Harbor Freight dust collector setup, then read Pentz's site, too.

Maybe his site should be subtitled "Abandon Hope, All Ye Who Enter Here."


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

If you are in a basement shop, that fine dust will spread throughout your house. I would use an air cleaner in a basement shop.

I think one should do everything they can to minimize the dust especially the fine dust. I think that an aspect of dust collection is overlooked is the dust pickups. Just using the mfg ports even with adequate cfm is rarely good enough. Adding a pickup close to the blade on a bandsaw, near the bit on a drill press or near a lathe will make great improvements.

For me the greatest offenders are Sanders and they spit out lots of fine dust.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

I tried to look at the pentz site, but I can only see half of each page. What am I doing wrong?


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## Monty151 (Nov 1, 2018)

Collecting dust at the source is the starting point in dust collection, however not the only thing that needs to be addressed. No matter how good of a system you have you will always end up with airborne fines. The later part of dust collection (no less important ) is basically removing those fines from the air so that they are not sucked up through your nose making your lungs a filter. ( Bad stuff ). With your main system to collect at the source you are also going to want some sort of air cleaner. There are many commercially made units available and there are quite a few DIY units on the internet that seem to work well. Whatever you chose don't let your lungs be filters.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I worry a lot about the fine dust, all the while realizing that what Monty said above is true: even a world class system can't catch it all. Even so I want to get every spec possible and set my system up as well as I could. There are still things you can't catch (try routing a piece of MDF indoors) but to me catching (and containing) everything I possibly can is important.


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

not gonna comment on what youre lookin at,other than to say air filtration i dont think can be overkilled, but on the outside venting:
on windy/breezy days, it isnt hard for the fine dust the DC will collect and spit outside to get picked up and blown into open windows upstairs. the dust could even coat stuff outside,too, if its not vented into a container type thing.


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

But the answer to your question is yes, if you always wear a respirator, than you can treat your HF and SDD as a chip containment system.

As for upgrading the filter, sort of. Yes, you can get a .3 micron filter, and if properly installed, will prevent fines from being blown back into your shop. But since your DC is underpowered, you aren't picking up the fines in the first place, so you are back to the respirator.

I think the HF + Wynn (or equivalent) + respirator is a fine solution. The SDD will reduce the effectiveness of the HF at picking up the fines in exchange for not having to clean the filter as often and making it easier to empty chips. If you are religious about the respirator, have a good seal, and change the filters on it regularly, then than could be a decent tradeoff. If, like me, you aren't quite that good at the above, then I think the degradation of the suction the SDD introduces isn't worth it. But, as always YMMV.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

I tend to agree with the OP. Short of a "clean room" atmosphere, it is impossible to rid the air of 100% of the fine dust using the DC systems out there. Removing 100% of the fines is futile. Even a good respirator will allow some dust to pass through. If a filter was 100% effective in blocking dust, you wouldn't be able to breath at all. There are pathogens like viruses that are finer than dust particles and will pass through any filter. I used to work in a clean room that had a counter that would read in PPM (parts per million). Just walking would start that counter ticking like mad. You can try to eliminate as much of the dust you can, but you will never get rid of all the dust. The question is: How much dust can be tolerated and for how long? In my shop, my DC blows directly to the outside without a filter. I keep a big fan running to blow the dust away from me and out the door.


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## Chashint (Aug 14, 2016)

While the Pentz website does have some useful information, make no mistake about it….it's there to sell dust collectors. 
Do I think the monster cyclones with computer optimized ductwork are great, yes I do, but I absolutely do not subscribe to the theory that it's all or nothing on this topic.

Single stage vented outside doesn't sound great to me, when I am preparing stock I generate a lot of shavings / sawdust and personally I wouldn't want that piled up outside my house, depending on your situation that may not be an issue for you though.

If heating / cooling in the space is not an issue venting a two stage system outside is the most efficient method and if the collection bin overfills there's no filter clog to deal with. 
I need to keep as much refrigerated air as possible in my shop, so a filter is necessary for me and to this point has not been a maintenance issue.

Do you really need to worry about the fine dust particles ? 
That depends on several factors.

If you are a smoker, then no you don't need to give hobbyist level fine particle dust exposure a second thought. I am serious about that.

Next is age and the frequency of exposure. 
Since the effects of exposure are cumulative the younger you are the more you need to worry about it in general. 
Do the best you can at the machine and remember that a respirator is your friend even if it's an annoying friend.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I couldn't disagree more with Charlies assertion that Pentz is selling DCs. He's not, though he gets some royalty from CV on their sales, that was never his intent and his research was done because he needed the info…he was then generous enough to share it with the world.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

Do you really need to worry about fine dust particles? Absolutely. ..

When you breath you will suck them deep into your lungs. If that is what you want, that is fine with me.

Will it hurt you today…maybe. it can cause sinus irritation, lung irritation and other short term issues. Long term exposure could be worse. It is like smoking as some smoke for years with few ill effects while other die from smoking.

Which one of these are you?

I choose to do the best I can for dust. Probably not near a clean room but still pretty good.


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## HackFabrication (Mar 11, 2019)

First and foremost (as was already posted), dust collection starts at the machine producing the dust. A lot of machinery isn't designed with TOTAL dust collection in mind. Yes, some are better than others, but many are far worse.

I work in my basement. Dust is an issue naturally. But I also share that same basement with a couple of cat litter boxes (which produce an amazing amount of fine dust).

My principle culprits in producing dust are my table saw, power miter box, and radial arm saw. My jointer and planer produce a lot of chips, but not a lot of fine dust. I've taken steps to minimize the dust output from my TS, but the MB, and RAS are still 'in the wings'. Anything to do with sanding, produces a lot of fine dust. I have a Powertec filtration system to attempt to capture (and it is effective), a lot of the airborne dust.

Here's a link to my HF dust collector build: https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/303647 I may or may not get around to plumbing it permanently to duct work. For now, it is portable. And a one man shop can't use multiple machines until science perfects cloning.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

> Then I discovered the Pentz website.
> - ss4752


You made the mistake a lot of us do. All due respect to Pentz, and what Fred said, but I often wonder how many people, after trying to wade through Pentz's info, just give up and order a Clear Vue thinking it will solve all their issues?

My advice is install an air filtration unit, invest in a good quality respirator, figure out a way to ventilate your shop with fresh air, and install a big exhaust fan.

Be aware the most dangerous tools in the shop are sanders and they are best collected with a shop vac or dust extractor.


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## Sparks500 (Jun 30, 2017)

Pentz published free plans to build his dc, which is the opposite of trying to profit off of it. I built his unit and could not be happier. My basement shop is almost dust free, and my allergies are not a problem.i used a 3hp tefc motor I found instead of the 5hp he recommended, and I doubled the output filter. 
This thing really SUCKS!


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## ssnvet (Jan 10, 2012)

Wood working in a small enclosed shop is a lot different than woodworking out doors or in a huge building, as the fine dust will not dissipate…. you will be trapped in the same "tank" as the fine dust and you will breath it in.

What's the health risk? I'll let the medical types speak to that. But for me personally, I've spent two decades setting up shop little by little, tool by tool and finally have it pretty much the way I want and am getting into some fun and complicated projects. So the last thing I want to do is get sensitized to wood dust and lose my hobby.

Though it wouldn't be my first pick, your HF DC will get you up and running and may meet your needs well enough.

BUT…. I would definitely put the Wynn cartridge filter on it.

It's not that filter bags are totally insufficient and evil…. it's that "cheap" filter bags are totally insufficient and let the dangerous fine stuff pass right through them. Good filter bags are made from a heavy felt material and have to "season" (build a cake on the inside surface that improves their filtration).

But if you're going to spend $ and upgrade the filter, just get the Wynn cartridge an be done with it. It will increase the area of your filter and improve air flow as a side benefit. And while the flapper cleaners are good, you can just slap it a couple times to clean up the inside of the pleated surface, or blow compressed air on it.

Then add a ceiling mounted air purifier and set up your shop vac to suck directly on your orbital sander port.

Do this and you'll be good to go.

As for the 5 HP clear view…. that would be great, but it's really expensive. Their are other less expensive cyclones out there that cost less and perform nearly (if not just) as well. Spend some time on Grizzly's web site to get a good overview of what's out there.

You really don't need to over think DC, just understand the core principles and apply some $ and energy getting yourself set up.


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

While the primary concern for fine dust is lung protection, it is not the only area to for focus.

I have an acquaintance that developed cancer of the tear ducts. Best guess is that woodworking dust was a strong factor. Fine dust is harmful to your eyes and skin as well as your lungs.

Fine dust collects on everything. My shop is far from perfect. I have a Jet DC in a closet with 4 HEPA furnace filters for an air exit. I also have a Grizzly air filtration unit. I still have fine dust collecting everywhere. But I am sure that it is a lot less dust than without the DC and filter unit. I probably should wear a respirator more often…


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## mnguy (Feb 4, 2009)

I would actually START with an air cleaner, and then add a dust collector. The fine dust is the true health hazard (as many have mentioned), and it will get into the air regardless of how good your point collection is. The larger dust will tend to drop right to the floor, where is a nuisance but not a health hazard. IMO, use the money you would spend on upgrading your HF dust collector with a Wynn cartridge on a good air cleaner. After that, invest in the Wynn cartridge or a cyclone, etc.

+++ for using a shop vac on your sanders


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## ssnvet (Jan 10, 2012)

Keeping the shop clean also goes a long ways towards air quality.

Piles of dust under a lathe can get stirred up and go air borne every time their agitated.
.


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

I don't agree with mnguy, but I am no expert.

ISTM that the priority is stopping fines from getting into the air, not removing them after they are there.
I believe that if you measured the effect of am air cleaner with a particle counter, the Wynn would do WAY more than the air filter when coupled to an (under-powered) HF DC. The issue is time. The air cleaner takes a long time to get the particles out of the air. The filter stops them from getting out. For sure, the HF doesn't get them all; that's the problem. But it stops most of them, not enough of them. The air cleaner, if it has effective circulation and an effective .5 or .3 micron filter, will eventually get what doesn't settle, but that takes minutes. sometimes many minutes.

But in the end, this discussion is academic, because neither gets the air safe to breath, so you need a respirator.
You certainly wouldn't argue for an air cleaner before an effective filter with a 5HP, 15" diameter DC.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

The ambient air cleaner is a very good accessory to have in a shop, but for reasons unrelated to your health. By the time the A/C gets the fines, they are already in your lungs. I advocate having one and letting it run to reduce the amount of fine dust that settles on, well, everything.


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

Yeah, I agree with that.

Oddly enough, I have an HF DC, a Wynn filter and an air cleaner. And I wear a respirator when running my dust generating tools.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> I don t agree with mnguy, but I am no expert.
> 
> ISTM that the priority is stopping fines from getting into the air, not removing them after they are there.
> I believe that if you measured the effect of am air cleaner with a particle counter, the Wynn would do WAY more than the air filter when coupled to an (under-powered) HF DC. The issue is time. The air cleaner takes a long time to get the particles out of the air. The filter stops them from getting out. For sure, the HF doesn t get them all; that s the problem. But it stops most of them, not enough of them. The air cleaner, if it has effective circulation and an effective .5 or .3 micron filter, will eventually get what doesn t settle, but that takes minutes. sometimes many minutes.
> ...


+1 id never buy the air cleaner before having a good duct collector,i could only imagine how much of a mess id have without one.the air cleaner is for the finest dust airborne and takes time to be removed,without the dc youd really be pushing it,kinda the cart before the horse.if your really concerned about fine dust ya gotta wear a good respirator period.


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## avsmusic1 (Jul 10, 2016)

side note - those clearvue machines are crazy tall and they wont even fit in most of the basements in my area (new england)


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## BalsaWood (Mar 25, 2015)

I also read Pentz's site and it is great info but I think some of it is over exaggerated on how you are doomed without amazing dust collection. You can have a good setup with a below 3HP dust collector. The Wynn filter was a nice improvement for the 1.5 DC I have. The best thing you can do is wear a good respirator. For me it has made the biggest difference and I'd take a good respirator over a good DC since it is very hard to collect all dust.


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

Please note that Bill Pentz is not an industrial hygienist and his information is not that of a professional. A lot of people, including myself, believe his assessment of the health risks of wood dust borders on hysteria. By his own admission, he got into the investigation because he already had seriously damaged lungs for reasons unrelated to woodworking. He formed his opinions based on his condition. The fact is we inhale organic particles from the atmosphere all the time. There are times and places where pollen dust is as dense as wood particles in an average wood shop. For millions of people it is unavoidable. Yet, very few people die of pollen dust so it is obvious that the human body has a mechanism to absorb or expel organic matter.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

Dust is going to vary wildly as to particle size. What are you using?? MDF on a router? Or fluffy chips and curls from a jointer, or planer?

The monster stuff isn't going for your lung bases, but that really fine stuff is. If you make that fine mess, you want DC with great filters, and most of all collection, suck it right out of the air. Are you running an air handler to get fines? I already have known lung issues, get me into some fines, and you will see me wearing.










And I do have DC, and air cleaners. Knowing what taking a DEEP breath means, I do not want it to get worse.

YMMV


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

^^^Is that model the 6800? Been thinking of picking one up. Spent too many of my younger years running bbq smokers and it caused some scar tissue on my corneas from the ash and soot. Now if i run a sander with my contacts in my eyes will burn for a couple days.

How comfortable is that to wear for extended periods like sanding a big piece? I dont mind my respirator i have now but the goggles drive me crazy.


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## edapp (Jun 27, 2014)

I didn't bother too much with dust collection until I realized that this was most likely going to be a life long hobby for me. Most people don't, and probably shouldn't, when they are first starting out and just occasionally making a few things in the driveway. When I built outfitted my permanent shop, knowing I would spend at least a few hours a week out there, I changed my view and took dust collection seriously. I am glad I did.

However, and I think this is the rub for most people, it is (or can be) very expensive. I have probably spent more on my DC, ducting, and fittings than any other single tool. I plan to move my planer to the other side of my shop soon, and it is going to cost me ~$150 in duct fittings and whatnot. However… when it is all setup and running. I can work my way through an entire project, starting with rough lumber, with basically zero dust accumulation in the shop. Only stopping when there is 30 gallons of chips and dust accumulated.

A benefit that is almost equal to the health aspect is the increase in efficiency. I spend more time in the shop because of it. If I can go to work for a few minutes in my shop without getting covered in dust (not even talking about my lungs) that is a plus, and I will do it more often. If I can work without my skin or eyes or allergies being bothered, that is a huge plus. I don't have to stop and change fittings, or move hoses, or sweep up messes, or unclog ports. When I finally got my system setup right I noticed it felt like I was absolutely flying through projects. Just move from one tool to the next to the next, no setup required. Something to consider when you make the investment into fixed ductwork.

Anyway, I have zero regrets. If you are going to do this for a long time, and are going to be in the same space for awhile, I highly encourage you to set it up right. You dont have to get a $2K DC, but if you do I doubt you will regret it. The Harbor Freight unit can move a lot of air if your ports and ductwork are setup properly.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> ^^^Is that model the 6800? Been thinking of picking one up. Spent too many of my younger years running bbq smokers and it caused some scar tissue on my corneas from the ash and soot. Now if i run a sander with my contacts in my eyes will burn for a couple days.
> 
> How comfortable is that to wear for extended periods like sanding a big piece? I dont mind my respirator i have now but the goggles drive me crazy.
> 
> - sansoo22


Yes it is the 3M 6800. I was first exposed to them about 8 years ago when I took a job as the health official at a medium sized chemical plant. They used them almost to a Man/Woman even though they had several choices from brands, and models. I can't say they are automatically a better mask, but they do offer a fit on almost any face type, do a great job of filtering a very wide range of substances through the extensive line of filters/canisters that will work with it directly, without the need for a secondary piece for attachment. What that does is just make a need for the mask itself, and a filter.

3M has a page to explain the different filters, and their applications. Going Particulate, or combo particulate with wood dust is OK, though the particulates are less costly, however they aren't as long lasting.

Anyhow I was seeing they worked great in use, and at the same time I was in need of something myself, as I was becoming aware of my own issues. It was a match. Some will poo poo the idea of full face, but the same stuff that takes out your lungs can, and will, tear up your eyes. It's argued that safety glasses will protect your eyes, and they will, from direct throwback. They do next to nothing to stop fines from getting onto your eyes, and a simpler effective seal is made by the 6800 so you don't need to worry about fines, or finish, and chemical spray with one on. So the best 2fer there is.

Definitely a product to price search, and often Amazoo isn't near the lowest cost. They fight back and forth, but usually an industrial type outlet will have the best prices. Pure volume drives that.

A lot of workers will wear these for 8 hour shifts. I personally think I would go nuts, but I try to group my work that requires the mask, so I like runs of around 1 to 2 hours, and I can do that easily. Probably a lot to do with how you rank on a scale about feeling slightly claustrophobic. With any of the filters for it, the time to swap filters is when breathing through the ones you have on, becomes more difficult. You will know.

I never try to "clean" my filters. I am worth more than they cost. Generally the flat, pink filters work well on spray, and dust. They are also the lowest priced ones, and for me they last as long as the solid container combo filters. Some say no to that. I think everyone has a different experience with them. Price gets better when you find multi pack lots of them. They are usually called P100's, but to be sure I also say, the flat pink ones. So far I have always gotten what I was looking for. Actual stock number is a 2091.


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## SoCalBonnie (Mar 13, 2019)

*therealSteveN or anybody else with this mask*... do regular, vision glasses fog up under this mask?

That's been the biggest problem I've had with every respirator/mask I've spent money on. With or without safety goggles, my glasses fog up. I would be so glad to have a full face mask that doesn't fog my lenses while cutting down the number of things I have to strap to my head.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I use 4 HF DC units all of them are vented outside no need for fancy filter systems, if your venting outside because most of the dust is in the outside unit. I don't think the people who say outside venting won't work are all caught up in wen filters and alike,if all you have is the fan unit inside say mounted on the wall and your bags are outside or in little lean-to sheds where is the dust is going to affect the people inside the shop? If you capture dust at the source and vent outside it will take a very sophisticated system to have a clean room environment (zero % particles).
I agree that long term contract with sawdust can be detrimental to your health but the economics of having zero sawdust in our shops is not realistic. The best one can do is to take extra care of collecting at the source by having tools with great DC built in or to modify other equipment to get as close to zero dust escaping at the source as possible. Beyond that, you can only wear a quality respirator.
As for myself, I could not stand wearing a respirator while working in my shop and I know I'm not alone in that sediment. So I know there is a risk in working in a shop environment and accept them just like those who participate in many activities from driving a car to sky diving.
I don't want to be one of those people who just says I've been woodworking for 30+ years and I'm fine, because a percentage of the time these people find out there not fine, but so far so good. We all have to be informed as to all the hazards of woodworking from a safe table saw to dust collection and decide what levels of protection we want and can afford.

https://www.artisticwoodstudio.com/videos


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

i think jim pretty much summed up where im at myself,i have a good duct collector on all machines,i usually roll up the garage door and have fans moving air out but i rarely wear a dust mask or respirator because frankley i cant stand them due to glasses fogging and just being uncomfortable.as jim said i know the risk and will deal with the problem if and when it arises.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

Venting outside is great IF you don't need heat in the shop or air conditioning to keep humidity down. Or you are made of money and don't care about cost of heat and AC. I think most of us need to run the air through a filter.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

- SoCalBonnie
[/QUOTE]



> *therealSteveN or anybody else with this mask*... do regular, vision glasses fog up under this mask?
> 
> That s been the biggest problem I ve had with every respirator/mask I ve spent money on. With or without safety goggles, my glasses fog up. I would be so glad to have a full face mask that doesn t fog my lenses while cutting down the number of things I have to strap to my head.
> 
> - SoCalBonnie


Hi Bonnie I can't speak for all masks that are full face, but with the 6800's if you have an Rx for your correction from your eye Doc, the folks who do more of the Industrial applications can mount a frame that stays in the mask, they adjust your focal point just enough that rather than wearing them on your nose as you do now they mount them out front on a small frame, that wedges between the glass, and the seal. They don't move, unless you move them, and it looks like you have your glasses right on your face. It's this small amount of separation that allows the respirators efficient anti fogging to work.

The 2 places I worked with required the Rx was less than 2 years old, and if your vision changed much through the years it would benefit you to have a new Rx made. Cost of lenses, and the frame was always under the one hundred dollar amount the employees were credited for.

To answer your actual question though, no these full face respirators have very good breathing vents, so you don't fog up. But the problem is that unless you have tiny, tiny, did I say tiny frames, that also make no contact with your cheeks, they won't work. The only time I have heard people talk about fogging, they were trying to use their glasses with a respirator, and the glasses right on their face, it was too much for even a well vented mask to overcome. It's a combo of humid, warmth, and a separate lens. It gets poofed up pretty quick.

A quick Google of places selling Industrial safety equipment will give you leads as to who to check with. In Cincinnati I had 2 places to work with. One wouldn't talk to individuals, the other had a retail storefront that catered to anyone.

If jumping around looking for a place doesn't sound like fun, you can buy the frame and have your Doctor put in the lenses. The frame just snaps in, but they are pretty secure. You have to want to move them to do so, just putting the respirator on, won't move it.

As a matter of fact, some Doctors offer them for sale as well, it's not an unusual thing to want glasses inside a respirator. Just make sure they are what is spec for the 3M 6800, or whatever mask you are using. All of them have different inside shapes, and clearances. The frames are pretty specific for brand names of masks. What they do is place the lens far enough from your cheeks, that air can circulate, and the fog is gone.

As with glasses the cost is quickly driven WAY up if you add bifocal, trifocal, or progressive lenses to the cost. I seriously need reading correction, but at saws length distances I am good with just my eyes, so I don't add lenses to mine, they would pretty quickly blow up the hundred dollar cap I spoke of earlier.


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

*therealSteveN* - thanks a ton for all the great info. Just ordered a 6800 and a 4 pack of filters. Ordered off Amazon since i have a biz acct with them. Total cost was about 97 bucks. Not to bad considering the vapor/gas cartridge filters i have from my half mask can pop right on this for spray duties.


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## rbrjr1 (Nov 2, 2017)

I think the real question is: How can I remove as much fines as I need to to protect MY health and the health of MY FAMILY (for a home attached shop).

I believe the answer is Air Quality Scrubbers, at the machine dust collection, AND ventilating the shop when possible.

Use your Harbor Freight.. 
Use your Dust Deputy.. 
Open Doors/Windows when possible.. 
Add Air Scrubber(s) if you haven't already (and let them run a couple hours after you're finished cutting..

most importantly, seal off (even if it's sweeps on your shop door) the rest of the house from your shop.


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## Greg66 (May 4, 2019)

> I couldn t disagree more with Charlies assertion that Pentz is selling DCs. He s not, though he gets some royalty from CV on their sales, that was never his intent and his research was done because he needed the info…he was then generous enough to share it with the world.
> 
> - Fred Hargis
> 
> Not selling dust collectors? That's hilarious!! He repeatedly bashed everything except "his" design.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

Who cares if Pentz is selling DC or he gets something for each one sold. He has done a great service posting the information and tools for designing duct work.

Of course we should be concerned about fine dust and do our best to collect it. Pentz describes what would be best to do and is not cheap or easy. However, anything you do can reduce exposure is worth doing.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

> Who cares if Pentz is selling DC or he gets something for each one sold. He has done a great service posting the information and tools for designing duct work.
> 
> Of course we should be concerned about fine dust and do our best to collect it. Pentz describes what would be best to do and is not cheap or easy. However, anything you do can reduce exposure is worth doing.
> 
> - Redoak49


Absolutely correct!


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## Greg66 (May 4, 2019)

> Who cares if Pentz is selling DC or he gets something for each one sold. He has done a great service posting the information and tools for designing duct work.
> 
> Of course we should be concerned about fine dust and do our best to collect it. Pentz describes what would be best to do and is not cheap or easy. However, anything you do can reduce exposure is worth doing.
> 
> - Redoak49


It looks like you and Fred do since your being so defensive of him. I couldn't care less what he does, he hasn't posted anything new besides the low cost test meters. There were plenty of design tools and info available before he ever started any testing or had a website. In fact pretty much all design info on his site was known before the internet was available to the general public. I had no problem getting info for duct design in 1990 when I built my first collection system so it's not like he's offering anything new


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> I think the real question is: How can I remove as much fines as I need to to protect MY health and the health of MY FAMILY (for a home attached shop).
> 
> I believe the answer is Air Quality Scrubbers, at the machine dust collection, AND ventilating the shop when possible.
> 
> ...


I understand this will change for everyone, mostly due to associated costs, but sometimes even the issue of not being a home owner. For my money there is no better move than to get the woodworking in a detached building. I did all the right things years ago in a basement shop, and there was nothing I could do, or any amount I could spend to not have dust all over the house. This was long before the scrubbers you speak off, but I now have a pair of them in my outdoor detached shop. I cannot give voice that they are all that and a bag of donuts. Another reason when I'm really into the dusty jobs, all the electrical stuff is running full tilt, and I am still in my F F respirator.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

> Who cares if Pentz is selling DC or he gets something for each one sold. He has done a great service posting the information and tools for designing duct work.
> 
> Of course we should be concerned about fine dust and do our best to collect it. Pentz describes what would be best to do and is not cheap or easy. However, anything you do can reduce exposure is worth doing.
> 
> ...


Well, you are entitled to your opinion, but the fact is there wasn't that much information available…at least on the smaller hobbyist/small shop level. That's why he did his research. While he has some good info on duct design, I think the more impressive part of his work was on cyclone design. I don't understand why a small group of folks feel they have to malign him or his info. It's out there, if you don't agree/like anything said…ignore it.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

> Who cares if Pentz is selling DC or he gets something for each one sold. He has done a great service posting the information and tools for designing duct work.
> 
> It looks like you and Fred do since your being so defensive of him. I couldn't care less what he does, he hasn't posted anything new besides the low cost test meters. There were plenty of design tools and info available before he ever started any testing or had a website. In fact pretty much all design info on his site was known before the internet was available to the general public. I had no problem getting info for duct design in 1990 when I built my first collection system so it's not like he's offering anything new
> 
> - Greg66


I am anxious to see your dust collection system and perhaps you can post links to the great information that you found to design it.

In reality, I could care less what others do for fine dust collection. If people are happy breathing fIne dust and tracking it into their homes to share with everyone who lives there then great for them.

I am happy with my system and it's performance as I use a dust collector and air filter.


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## CARSandCustoms (Jul 26, 2018)

Just avoid the fine dust all together. 24 T blades and 36 grit sandpaper! lol


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## kroginold (Jul 13, 2015)

I have read Pentz site and the part that I think is most important is what was overlooked. Allergies as he has are not dependent on particle size, nor entirely on particle count, but simply on exposure alone. For example, someone allergic to penicillin will react just as much to 1 IU as to 100000 IU. And though he is correct in saying that finer particles are more likely to cause lung problems not allergy related, his estimation of the particle sizes that woodworkers are exposed to does not come from data that is valid for most hobbies shops. A government study measured particle size of dust produced by a random orbital sander, which would produce finer dust than most if not all other machines in most shops, and found essentially no dust smaller than 9 or 10 microns. From this I would conclude that even a five micron filter would get exposure down to background. And finally he gave no data relating to the human body's natural filtration mechanisms. I have seen no medical data to suggest that dust from a hobbiest's shop produces any appreciable amount of lung disease other than allergy related. Pentz's data seems to have come from industrial data, which is a completely separate circumstance and has many other variables. And though anecdotal, I have never seen anyone with small wood shop based lung disease, and I've practiced medicine for 35 years.


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## farmfromkansas (Jun 16, 2019)

My shop is an out building, probably 100' from my house. I vent outside, and nobody notices, but I use a filter when it is very cold, or very hot. Venting through the filter back into the shop causes dust, and reduces the flow at least by half. Only time I notice the dust coming out of the vent is when running the wide belt sander, or the barrel is over flowing. The vent is on the east side of the shop, and we seldom have an east wind, mostly southwest or northwest.


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