# Do We Need A New President



## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

This alternative same-subject topic has been started in order to address those who have instituted their own exclusive Right wing banter on the above subject but have been blocked from participating.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

DIRT SAID: I thought it most amusing that Mikey posted on his rant: Post 30…
...So basically he admits that he comes on these sites to be the biggest possible PR - - K in the world, until he is finally blocked by the thread owner that says ENOUGH!. He then blocks all other viewpoints and starts his rant on the LJ feedback thread to scream about how one sided discussions shoudl be banned. I am not a big fan of blocking and flagging but here you have someone who prints out black and white that they SOLELY stir trouble rather than engaging in any debate or discussion and asks the forum to be terminated.

I will use YOUR same tactics right back at you and yours. Doesn't feel good when it flies right back in your face huh?


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*CR1 SAID: So Mike blocks everyone one who disagreed with him, starts a new political blog, and that way, has no opposition to his weird rants…
Well it might appear that he learned how to conduct dialog from bomb throwers O'Donnel and Shultz. Which is a very sorrowful state.
God bless his little heart…
...What can you do when people refuse to behave like human beings insisting on constantly being deliberately offensive and diversionary?...
It's a sad pathetic state as person is in when a she is so mentally imbalanced that she is incapable of distinguishing between herself and some other person or persons whom she won't ever even meet, such as a politician or talking head?*

Well CR1, it sure sounds like this is YOUR confessional. You must have looked in the mirror this morning. I am so sure YOU never threw out any "bombs" on LJs,... yeah… 'shore…, and Santa Claus exists too huh…

So how does it feel being feed your own droppings? Need seconds?


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*Dirt SAID: I'm CERTAIN that Mr. Blow never was teased in high school with that name….. (dripping sarcasm)
...This guy is a hard core democrat - but he is starting to cry foul over how the democrats treat the black demographic while claiming to be their champions….*

Why would YOU cry foul when Mr. Blow appears to use the Republican Karl Rove Playbook? 
*Tactic #4: Go Negative, Then Cry Foul* What… only Right Wingers get to play THAT way?

*Dirt SAID: Something most Right wingers point out looking at the welfare state for the past 30 years….that despite a TON of money and ever expanding efforts, things are not better now than they were in the 60's*

This simply NOT true Dirt. Productivity (what YOU are calling the "Welfare State") for outpaced the growth in real wages. The greedy rich (read Republicans) drove the economic machine into the ditch.

"...striking feature of this picture is, of course, how much the two series have diverged since the early 1980s. Output per hour of work in 2010 was 87% higher than in 1980, while real hourly compensation was only 38% higher."


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## tom427cid (Aug 21, 2011)

damn shame that people can't discuss things with a degree of civility---
tom


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

So true Tom, so true…


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

They are just a bunch of dedicated Republicans and tea baggers, and they tow the party line regardless of fact, and can't face the reality of the mess that GW Bush created, and want to blame it all on Obama..


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*DIRT SAID: Funny over in leftland[SIC] - AKA Mikes Rant - the Welfare State is considered to be the working class. The Welfare state are those living in government housing, on Medicaid and foodstamps[SIC].
Those programs have gotten larger every year for 40 years, adding school lunches during summer, school dinners as well. Regardless where one stands, we see continuous growth in spending on handouts, which has not translated into wealth for the disaffected.*

And I suppose you don't recognize the growing wage disparity vs productivity as a cause. What a joke you are for ignoring this simple truth.

*DIRT SAID:...Of course the left just assumes evil corporations chain people to the machines and make them work 16 hour shifts with one bathroom break, but truth and liberal Dogma aren't the same thing…*

But these "sweat shops DO EXIST, they are overseas and they ARE a U.S. responsibility.
 However, the Far Right Wing-Nuts, such as yourself, choose to ignore this for increased profits AT ALL COSTS.

*DIRT SAID:Those of us that have worked in NON-government positions know this, but principals and park rangers - arent[SIC] that versed in production and economy of scale, beyone[SIC] a wiki definition of the terms or a visit to the AFLCIO website.*

Funny how Dirt forgets to respect educators, ESPECIALLY SINCE his own wood shop equipment has been donated/welfared to him from HIS OWN father-in-law, AN EX-HIGH SCHOOL SHOP TEACHER!


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Geez CR1, your piece on robotics and technology over time is the most thoughtful and original piece I have observed coming off of your keypad. Not going to get all mushy-eyed, as I do not care for your *"debate-at-all-costs even if you have to debate yourself"* style, but you just had a good moment of clarity.


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

Except for this lovely little self centered, condescending piece of self important crap

Not everyone is going to succeed at college. In fact the vast majority of people are not terribly smart. They are not terribly beautiful either. What do people do who are unfit for higher education can't be doctors, lawyers, pharma' salesmen, bond traders etc?
The world only needs so many used car salesmen and pretzel cart vendors.

Wow..if only everyone in life could aspire to become self important, condescending, loudmouthed, ambulance chaser…


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

But Brad for once, CR1 is correct here, though very much rude and condescending. As an educator, I have always known that only ~25% of all jobs (in US) require a college degree, ~60% require some training but LESS than college, and the remaining ~15% of jobs are the OJT (on-job-training) type of positions.

What CR1 FAILS to address is that we really do need to focus on helping those less intelligent/capable rather than the smart cookies out there. Where CR1 errs is when he/she, basically makes an inference that these less intelligent/capable folks should be of NO concern to those with the skills/intelligence/beauty. THAT is where CR1's argument fails. To leave such a large proportion of the population (the majority according to CR1) without ANY assistance, training, jobs, etc. WILL result in civil disruption and regime change if those needs are not addressed.


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## vernonator (Feb 21, 2011)

Help how? Hand out or Hand up? That is the major difference RE: Liberal/Conservative Democrat/Republican…. it is not in the pervue of Gov't to guarantee everyone wins, let alone everyone plays on a level field…it is not possible fiscally, phisically or morally…it just is not.


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## xwingace (Apr 25, 2011)

I took debate back in the day, and our professor said "If you insult the person you are debating, you lose".
There's truth in that, just beacuse you disagree doesn't mean you have to be a d***.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

But vernonator, it really IS government's job to do JUST THAT! Government does for all, what individuals can't do for themselves. And indeed it IS physically, fiscally, and moral for government to care for its citizens. THAT is its job and purpose for existing.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*Dirt SAID: My take though is that there is a push that all K-12 education has to be "College Prep"
And while yes highschool should prepare you to go to college, everybdy there in school with you isn't going to make it into college wheter that reason is, Brains, Money or Interest.*

On this we agree. I would have copied that entire post but suffice it to say I agree with its entirety. While I worked from inside the educational system, that does not mean that I could effect THAT kind of change. Prepping "everyone for college" is, in essence, an entire corporate-like economy of its own. The message from about the 1980s and beyond is "Don't Rock The Boat." The corporatization of higher education has been a driving force behind the elimination of vocational/trade-school curricula in high schools. Unfortunately, that means that the low skilled have even fewer opportunities for job training programs unless they can come up with the $$$ for those "for-profit" specialty trade schools. High school shop actually used to provide a REAL service back in the 1960s and before.


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## jeepturner (Oct 3, 2010)

I don't see much content that matches the title. I opened this thread because one, the OP isn't a rude condescending type who answers in twenty paragraph diatribes, and two there isn't 1086 replies I would have to look through. 
I mean sheesh it's almost as bad as the post on hand plane dreams, there is no way I could find the time to read all of it. I do have a life, job and family.

I do want to answer the question though. Do we need a new president. I would say yes, with a small caveat. It would have to be somebody not currently in the running. I didn't vote for Obama last time, but I will probably have to this time. Votes, and elections do mean something. I make good money, not a great deal of money, but good enough to save some every year and still afford the things that make life comfortable. I don't make enough to ever think that the republican party is working for or representing my or mine.

As for the above posts, thanks Mike for making some of them available. I wouldn't even try to read that other president thread.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Thanks for the input Mel.


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

C'mon Mel..there's some pretty funny political cartoons in that thread..


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Yeah well Brad, not everyone willingly sticks their hand out and into a dog's mouth JUST for the opportunity to feel how it feels to be bitten. *;-)* Mel may be on to something there…

I still have a scar in my hand from when I was about 11 and my best friend's dog… Yep, it's still there.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Yes


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*Dirt SAID: David -
Spending under bush Really?
8 years of Bill Clinton - - AVERAGE OVERSPEND 500 million dollars a DAY borrowed.
8 years of Bush Average overspend 1.5Billion every friggin Day.
Barry campaigned about how unsustainable it was and even got the senate Democrats to vote lock step against raising the debt celing - - suppose they wanted everyone on social security to stave and run the country into a wall?
Now under Barack we overspend by 4.2 billion every day.
The right was indeed complaining about unsustainable deficits. This is part of Barrys attraction in 2008
Now Obama came in and nearly TRIPLES the damage Bush was building up….and presto there is a tea party.

Yeah I know we have had porkulous bills and such because of what Barry Inherited…..when does he OWN his failure? Obama saw the Bush Fire and got out the Gasoline*

Come on Dirt, get REAL with the Budget Deficit's CAUSE going forward. It all falls on:
1. George W Bush's TAX CUTS to the wealthy 
2. George W Bush's War in IRAQ
3. George W Bush's War in AFGHANISTAN











> Some critics continue to assert that President George W. Bush's policies bear little responsibility for the deficits the nation faces over the coming decade - that, instead, the new policies of President Barack Obama and the 111th Congress are to blame. Most recently, a Heritage Foundation paper downplayed the role of Bush-era policies (for more on that paper, see p. 4). Nevertheless, the fact remains: Together with the economic downturn, the Bush tax cuts and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq explain virtually the entire deficit over the next ten years (see Figure 1).
> 
> The deficit for fiscal year 2009 was $1.4 trillion and, at nearly 10 percent of Gross Domestic Product (GDP), was the largest deficit relative to the size of the economy since the end of World War II. If current policies are continued without changes, deficits will likely approach those figures in 2010 and remain near $1 trillion a year for the next decade.
> 
> ...


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

JimC SAID on the Blocking THREAD: So the biker starts a political rant and blocks all who don't agree with his point of view. It becomes one sided in his favor and then he proclaims a 90% agreement to his point of view.
Priceless, but kind of Hugo Chavez like. A rigged election.

I blocked those who had blocked me, with you being the SOLE exception. I blocked YOU because:
1. You used the LJs "Buddie" system to stalk me, AKA find where I posted.
2. Used that information to post followup nasty-grams about me on a personal level, you know like the one you JUST POSTED above^

I do want to thank you for confirming that I did the correct thing in blocking you on the "Should LJs Allow Politically Exclusive/One-Party Forum Topics?" thread. Some folks just don't want to listen to Republican Talk-Show sycophants. Just sayin'...


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*CR1 SAID: Well it's looking really good to be getting rid of the first openly communist president in history. *

Damn, Right out of the REPUBLICAN Karl Rove Campaign Playbook:
*Tactic #5: The "Big Lie"*

Although people are often dubious when politicians tell "small" lies, they tend
to believe them when they make outrageous claims. Ironically, it is the very magnitude of
a "big lie" that makes it believable. The response of the voters can be summarized as
follows: "Well, there must be some truth in the assertion, or they wouldn't be able to say
it. Where there' smoke, there's fire." The effectiveness of this approach is dependent on a the 1994 gubernatorial race, the Bush campaign initiated a series of negative campaign
tactics, distorting Texas' crime statistics to manufacture a divisive issue that confused
voters (See Tactic #10). Ann Richards was advised by her campaign staff to fight back
so that she wouldn't appear weak. However, when Richards called Bush a "jerk," she left
an opening for the Bush campaign. Bush spokesperson Reggie Bashur declared, "Today
apparently marks a significant departure for Governor Richards, as she and her advisers
have decided that negative campaigning is their lone hope to attempt to reverse her
political troubles. George W. Bush has run his campaign on the issues and has offered
reforms for fundamental change and meaningful policies and programs."5 This tactic cast
Richards in a negative light and put her on the defensive throughout the remainder of the
campaign.

Good move, *BUT, we saw it coming… 
*
Bigot Bagger = 1
Corrupt Republican = 0


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*DIRT said: Kepp[SIC] in mind there are no Bush tax cuts anymore.*

Oh Hell yes there are! The Bush "Tax Cuts" are current and FUTURE debt that must be paid off. You just can't *ignore* them as if they never existed. It will take decades to pay off BUSH"S Bill! And it was "W" Bush who created a them and and signed them into law!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Jeepturner - We all have life, job and family, but know that you can jump into the handplanes thread anytime without reading all 7K entries. Once you've read any of it, the first page for example, the next time you open it the thread will go to the most recent. We'd love to have you!


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)




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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

The DUD SAID: Last chance warning obviously ment[SIC] nothing to you brad[SIC] so you call people stupid ane[SIC] retarded[SIC] well this is good bye[SIC] brad[SIC] no more of your insults will be on this thread[SIC]

Hey Brad! Welcome! Looks like TheDud's little fiefdom has rapidly ran out of opposition members.

Go figure… **


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

It seems I have been banned from Lances' Republitard and tea bagger orgy of misinformation..

*Bullsxxt, bullsxxt, bullsxxt, whats your source? Your source is THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER..get a grip stupid…

Listen Jim..if you bother to read my post and tear it apart, at least get it right genious

It was the two attacks at you Jim. I warned him to stop and he wont stop so he is blocked .if you talk to him and he apologizes to you in writing and you want him back ill consider it. he even misspelled genius*

1. As my lawyer points out :

Actually, I recall that "stupid" was an acceptable exception (see below). You just HAD TO HAVE BEEN BOOTED because you accused him of being of above intelligence, or a "genius," and THAT is just over the top! Don't cha' know…



> from now on any name calling will not be tolerated. it is not productive and when people *say more than hey stupid or your to dumb* to get it it causes hatred and each person will get one warning after that ill block you. this is for both sides. and i have already warned mike as he has called me and others too many names to be tolerated any more. now we can either get along or you can start your own thread and see how the bashing goes. I for one am tired of the non productive name calling and I wont tolerate it any more. you guys a men and women who care about this country so act like your better than congress and get along.
> [UNQUOTE]
> So, I was banned under false pretenses…I will be filing legal motions with lumberjocks as soon as my lawyer gets done chasing an ambulance..
> 
> ...


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

*But vernonator, it really IS government's job to do JUST THAT! Government does for all, what individuals can't do for themselves. And indeed it IS physically, fiscally, and moral for government to care for its citizens. THAT is its job and purpose for existing.

*
Mike, do morals not come from God? How can government be in the business of supporting God's laws?


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## fussy (Jan 18, 2010)

Scott,

Morals don't come from "God". Right is right and wrong is wrong whatever your religion. You may conciously choose to invest in a belief system that practices what normal people would call "immoral" behaviour, but that doesn't make it moral. Just as greedy destruction of the economy is immoral, starting a war in Iraq based totally on lies is immoral, setting up a system that so corrupts our system of governance that representatives no longer pay even lip service to ethics; get in bed with whomever has the bucks to guarantee your re-election and give them what they want.

Is it moral to saddle a new President with a virtual depression caused by your policies and then declare it your mission to see that he fails even if it runs the country off a cliff? Is it moral to delay, divert, subvert or use any tactic to insure failure and blame a good man for your venality? Is it moral to break the balls of every working man and bankrupt the country to give obscene profits tax-free to people who care only for themselves (c'mon right-wing christians; "When you do it for the least of these, my bretheren, you do it for me"). Is it "Morals from God" that make it ok to turn your back on people in need, to so weaken the school systems and so subvert or eliminate the teaching if civics (the basis for the way the Republic is Suposed to work) that nearly 80% believe news organizations have to or should have to cloear stories with the government before publishing?" Is it "Morals from God" that make it ok to decide that any action is acceptable if the outcome is desirable (torture, kidnapping people and handing them over to despotic governments who won't hesitate to torture), supporting leaders because it's in the interest of a rich few no matter how monstrous they are, starting wars based on lies, getting thousands of our troops killed and wounded, then refusing or making it materially impossible for them or their families to receive the treatment/help they need and were promised before sending them into harm's way? Is it "Morals from God" that make it ok to set yourself up as moral arbiter for everyone and try to bludgeon, starve, ignore, drown out or otherwise try to eliminate all opposing points of view but your own for your own benefit? If that is your idea of "Morals from God", then you can shove your god right where the sun don't shine.

Steve


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

I do believe that Steve has fully explained just WHY we should have a separation of church and State, especially when it comes to Presidential politics.

QUESTION FOR SCOTT: If morals come from God, then how do you explain the very existence of a moral atheist or agnostic? Surely they must get their sense of morality from some other source…


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## danr (Sep 5, 2009)

MERRY CHRIST-MAS
MERRY CHRIST-MAS
MERRY CHRIST-MAS 
to all


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

Your question is easy Mike. The mere fact that an atheist or agnostic has morals is because regardless of whether they believe in God does not change the fact that God exists and has given us morals, emotions, logic and reason.

And to answer your post Steve, it is not God breaking these morals …it is man.

Merry Christmas danr.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

SCOTT SAID: The mere fact that an atheist or agnostic has morals is because regardless of whether they believe in God does not change the fact that God exists and has given us morals, emotions, logic and reason.

And to follow this to the next logical conclusion, god also gave us war, murder, rape and pilage, torture, etc. because it is the power of god to instill ANYTHING that god wishes to instill in man regardless of man's concious effort to recieve or reject such things.

To take it one step further, to rape and pilage would then, by god's own wishes, be gods will. Somehow, coming from someone who is an agnostic, I don't think this "god" had THAT in mind. But then again, I am just a heathen according to those who were "born-again" and what do I know.


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

Mike, God allows man to choose evil (those things you mention) or good thru their free will.

Each of us will be judged by God one day based on how we use our free will.

I don't view you as a heathen Mike, just a lost soul. The " good news" is you can be found, but that is of your choosing and free will.


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

It is your choice Mike. After all you do have a 50/50 chance of being right and me being wrong.

If I am wrong and there is no God, then it won't really change my outcome. But if you are wrong, the concequences change altogether it would seem.

Weigh the odds and the potential outcomes and make your choice. You better be right, there are no do overs.

Good luck.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Yep, the odds of you losing the ONLY chance of enjoying this LIFE is of "no consequences", yeah and just how I believe THAT!

Addendum: That may actually explain al the Right Wing Hypochristians doing the deed… Hmm.. Makes sense to me…


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Looks like we are on to something! The Lance thread is now wondering where we have all gone! What a hoot! Looks like they will be closing up shop shortly…


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

Rationalize it any way you see fit.

I live an incredibly full and enjoyable lfe. My faith only serves to add to the quality of my days on earth.

Good luck on your decision.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*And 17-minutes later, the Lance Thread is begging for members from the "Left", go figure…*

BTW, NOW the word "stupid" is no longer allowed, even though it was FIRST allowed by Acting Fiefdom coordinator "Lance" :

Please NOTE that all grammatical errors are that of the author being quoted (AKA Lance) and not that of this forum topic poster:


> from now on any name calling will not be tolerated. *it is not productive and when people say more than hey stupid or your to dumb to get it *it causes hatred and each person will get one warning after that ill block you. this is for both sides. and i have already warned mike as he has called me and others too many names to be tolerated any more. now we can either get along or you can start your own thread and see how the bashing goes. I for one am tired of the non productive name calling and I wont tolerate it any more. you guys a men and women who care about this country so act like your better than congress and get along.
> [UNQUOTE]
> 
> WHAT A HOOT!...


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## bigkev (Mar 16, 2011)

I think it's a shame that someone comes on here and talks about others being bullies when he himself is the biggest bully and hypocrite I've seen on this site. What an idiot.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

bigkev,
Please pay attention. I do this ON PURPOSE in order to show just how bad the other American "Right Wing" side is abusing this system. YES, I AM the BIGGEST BULLY, but I am NOT the biggest hypocrite. I know what I am doing and am doing it in the light of day, unlike the Republican crap that lives along the river Denial. Hypocrite NO,


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

Mike, I will add you to our prayer list Wednesday night at church.


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## RZH (Nov 20, 2009)

*If I am wrong and there is no God, then it won't really change my outcome. But if you are wrong, the concequences change altogether it would seem.*

So God and religion is about hedging your bets.

*Each of us will be judged by God one day based on how we use our free will.*

I thought God judges if we accepted Jesus as our personal savior. Then when we sin, we can ask for forgiveness. It's like a free pass. If it is based on free will, you got a lot of explaining to do with your maker.


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

Not hedging a bet,, just a logical fact.

And accepting Jesus is a free will endeavor.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Scott,
Please explain THAT "logical fact" as I am NOT finding it.


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

Does God exist?....yes/no. A 50/50 logical fact.

He either exists or he does not. Perhaps one could add a "maybe" to the calculation, but not me personally.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

So he DOES NOT exist. Got it.


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

Good luck.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Oh yeah, just what is this ALL LOVING GOD do to those who fail to believe? He opens up an "Extreme Rendition Camp in Hell " BECAUSE HEAVEN DOES NOT TORTURE THE NON-COMPLIANT. How convenient…


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

Were you abused as a child?


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

How can I call you and explain?


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

Feel free to send me a private message with whatever content you think is necessary.


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

And now..a word from our sponsor..


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

Where did my post go??? wow that didn't take long..me thinks somebody is reading this blog with much interest..and that somebody is a lawyer, or an angry Tea bagger, or a guy that doesn't use any punctuation..
To whom ever it was that deleted my post..i guess it's okay for those idiots to say whatever they want about me as long as they word it properly….this website is turning into a Fox news fair and balanced kinda atmosphere..i think I will start flagging EVERYTHING that I find offensive, or that insults me and we will see how much gets deleted..I'm thinking..none of it..so much for freedom of speech….I am teetering on the brink of leaving this website..


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

*He either exists or he does not. Perhaps one could add a "maybe" to the calculation, but not me personally.*

Is this like Schrodinger's cat?


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)




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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Here you go RockyTopscott invokes religion, I protest , and WudNHell jumps in


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Interesting story from miket (AKA The_Dude), however he forget that I was the half pint that kicked the bully's ass.

ALSO, Look at the Rockytopscott attack.

Just sayin'...
Obama 2012


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

More homosexual accusation from rockytopscott 
Scott Moore-Alpharetta, GA


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