# Cheapest tools worth buying?



## Armandhammer (Dec 12, 2013)

Ok, new to all this. I've been reading and watching. I just got a table saw so I'm good there. But after watching loads of videos and reading tons of posts, I've decided that I'm really more interested in more traditional woodworking at this point. I'll end up being a hybrid woodworking no doubt, some hand tools, some power tools, but right now due to space and weather, I want to start up with my hand tool collection since I can convert a spare bedroom into a makeshift workshop for the time being. Hand tools will work in that space, power tools not so much.

Anyways, I've alway understood and tried to follow the adage buy quality, buy once (buy quality, cry once), but sometimes budget doesn't allow for those initial high quality purchases. Well, I guess if I wanted to build my tool collection at a MUCH slower pace…quality pieces could be obtain right off the bat. However, I'd really like to get to a point where I can start working some wood, sooner than later and once I get the basic kit assembled, start adding the high quality pieces as I can.

So all this rambling boils down to one question really….what are some of the less expensive tools out there that are not complete junk? I guess for now I'm looking at my first few saws and chisel set(s).


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## vikingcape (Jan 3, 2013)

I assume you are looking for hand tools from your question? If so when it comes to saws I use japanese ones, they are not overly expensive and cut great, very thin blades. Western saws can get pricey. The only reason I use japanese saws is when I first started my brother leant me two of his saws and said I could keep the japanese one. So I didn't want to use his nice English saw and get used to it. When I tried an English saw recently it felt weird.


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## RichardHillius (Oct 19, 2013)

For what it's worth my 2 cents.

Getting started with hand tools there are a lot of options for used tools that can make it pretty affordable. Finding a good couple of hand saws isn't that hard if you are patient and willing to put a little work into them. If you are brand brand new to hand tools it might be worth it however to find someone who is selling already sharpened and cleaned up saws for your first couple so you get a idea of what sharp is but if you feel comfortable sharpening your own tools and are willing to walk the flee markets early Saturday's morning's you can pick up some really good bargains.

As for back saws the used market hunting is a little harder but still doable but there are some good new options there. Veritas makes a pretty good set of back saws although I personally think the backs are a bit to light for my tastes. Lie-Neilsen saws are more traditional in design but are kind of between price wise the Veritas and premium brands. Both are excellent saws that can serve you well for sometime until you figure out what you really are looking for in a back saw. Back saws are very personal things and if spend enough time with them you will get to the point where you start to consider making custom handles for your tastes. At least I have found myself doing so.

There are some great new makers of hand planes like Veritas and Lie-Neilsen but you can also do well buying the standard sized ones used to. You end up competing with collectors for the specialty ones at which point it's just better to buy those new but you really only need five planes to get started assuming your doing everything by hand. A trying plane, a jointer plane, a smoothing plane, a router plane and a low angle block plane.

I used a set of the Dewalt chisels from the Big Box store for a good while before getting "better" ones. Honestly they are solid well made chisels and my only complaints are they don't look traditional and they don't feel quite as comfortable in your hand as a good set of wood handled socket chisels. However the tangs go though the handle completely so you can really whack of them and get good force transfer. I am pretty much over used chisels at this point. The amount of time and energy it takes to restore most of them is just to much to make the price savings worth it in my opinion.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

to answer your question - that depends!

There are ways to build up a quality tool collection without breaking the bank. that includes finding 'gems' (like the Narex chisels as an example - which are very good quality at a quite affordable price point), and finding used/vintage tools.

Both those alternatives would require you to put in some elbow grease to get those tools to perform at their highest potential, but those skills (shaping and sharpening of edge tools) are skills that you would need to develop and master anyway so it's a win-win situation.

do account for sharpening supplies and setup as that is a requirement for hand tools that many people don't forsee and plan for and could be a quite unexpected expense.


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## kaerlighedsbamsen (Sep 16, 2013)

Welcome to LJ!
Read Paul Sellers fine writup on a series of essential handtools and what to buy and when to buy new or used. It is heavily influenced by his personal style but great info. There is about 20 pages of reading but its worth the effort: http://paulsellers.com/2012/08/buying-good-tools-cheap-or-cheaper/
Good luck!


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## Armandhammer (Dec 12, 2013)

Thanks for the quick responses. Sharpening, yeah, I did account for that. Everything I've seen pretty much says the same thing…planes and chisels at least, need some degree of work before using even when brand new. Maybe not the case with the really high quality stuff…I don't know, but no doubt I'll be quickly learning how to sharpen and prepare the cheaper tools I'll likely be starting with.

Part of my issue is, I wouldn't know a gem from a turd when looking around the flea market/junk store.

I'll look into those Dewalt chisels. I've also seen that the Stanley Fat Max set is ok. Perhaps even the Irwin Marples set? And Japanese saws, I've seen those on Rockler and other places pretty cheap. Perhaps I'll grab one or two of those to start. I don't have a problem using the table saw for ripping and cross cutting at this point…I'm not a traditional purist yet…lol…heck, I'm not even a woodworker yet…haha…but I do want to start working on joinery by hand from the beginning.


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## Armandhammer (Dec 12, 2013)

Thanks kaerlighedsbamsen. Yeah, I've been watching a lot of Paul's videos. Great stuff! I'll definitely check the link and give that a read. I actually have his site up in my browser already, just haven't dove into it yet. Been busy reading on here and watching YT videos…lol


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## RichardHillius (Oct 19, 2013)

My suggestion would probably be to focus more on the projects you want to build than the tools to build them. You can make a lot of stuff with just one of those $20 disposable Hand Saws from Home Depot that Christopher Schwarz talks about on his blog a few inexpensive layout tools, 2 chisels and a hammer with some nails. Add on to that basic set as your projects call for it with things like jointery saws and planes.

A few good starter projects to consider are; saw bench, bench hooks, shooting board, tool storage chest/box, etc. These are great because they can be skill builders which you end up using in your shop.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Richard, I like the way you think. Excellent suggestions!


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## Armandhammer (Dec 12, 2013)

Yeah, that's kinda what I'm doing. I'm actually watching some saw bench videos now, plus I want to build a work bench and a storage box of some sort like you suggested, along with the other shop items. I figured I'd start with shop projects before moving on to other things. I want to use some different joints on those projects to practice. I'm sure I could easily use the table saw and do half laps and rabbits but what fun would that be…lol

I'll check his blog for some tool suggestions. By the way, are his DVD's worth buying? I love his youtube stuff but most of it seems to be trailers for the DVDs. I plan to pick up a couple of his books soon at least.


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

Agree with what Richard just said. What do you want to do? Once you figure that out, you'll figure out what you need to get to do it.

I refuse to buy cheap router bits, cheap saw blades for the plugged-in stuff, and I refuse to cheap-out on some other things. But I love smacking a 25% off coupon on the desk at Harbor Freight every chance I get. I just bought this awesome little hand saw for about $7.

If you want to know what to look for at flea markets and antique shops for old tools, take the time to read through the Hand Tool forum because it's full of many seriously-knowledgeable people. This site is an invaluable resource.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

a&h, a new (cheap) panel saw as well as back saw from the BORG would do you fine as long as the panel saw has a finer tooth count (you're not cutting tree branches). Although not necessarily 'cheap,' the four-chisel set of Stanley SW re-issues is a good value and I can vouch for the quality of the tools first-hand.

The 6" Craftsman combination square is a decent quality tool that is a good bench-based marking tool.

Add a cordless drill with basic bit set and you can build a saw bench. Then you're on the way.


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## Armandhammer (Dec 12, 2013)

BORG?


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

*BORG* = Big ORanGe , or Blue/ORnGe - meaning the big home improvement chain stores around the US


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I'll second the second hand market watch. Focus on your projects, and pick up tools and equipment as you find the deals. Its not uncommon to see somebody post a "what do you guys think of this buy" post to get opinions, so you don't necessarily need to know, just know to ask.

And as for hand tools, you can learn pretty quickly what to look for with a little research and asking some basic questions. You'll get a boat load of conflicting answers a lot, and you'll learn who you can listen to with decent results.

There are a lot of talented woodworkers here ready to help. Good luck and make the ride enjoyable.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Yep, Big Orange Retail Giant (home depot, or now lowe's home improvement).


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## Armandhammer (Dec 12, 2013)

Gotcha. Kinda figured that's what it was.

Yeah, used is fine with me. I'm making a wish list and I'll start researching what to look for in a used piece. I've been looking at planes on ebay. Kinda makes me nervous to deal with ebay stuff like that but there seems to be a lot for pretty cheap that look good in the pics. Lots of #4's at least. I think with my initial investment I want a couple saws, and plane or two, and a chisel set. Of course I know I'll need a sharpening setup, some measuring/marking tools, squares, clamps, ect. I figure those items are the easier ones to pick up.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Buy used stuff. You can get mismatched old socket chisels
on ebay and also they have some really nice old Japanese
chisels and the prices have got really reasonable if the
seller cannot identify the chisel's maker.

I'm a fan of the bow saw. I made mine for the cost of
a butcher saw blade which I refiled for ripping and
filed the set off. It cuts dovetails very accurately.
I've cut tenons with it too but I prefer to use
machines for those.

Used Bailey type planes are common and easy to buy
in online auctions. Do try to buy from a seller who seems
like they're experienced at shipping because the
planes can get dropped and broken if they aren't
adequately packaged. Some sellers will drop
a bench plane into the type of priority mail box which 
really doesn't have adequate room in there for a good
bubble wrapping.

Get used to poking around at garage sales, antique shops
and flea markets. Planes are often overpriced at
antique stores. Files and rasps are useful and overlooked
tools you may be able to pick up real cheap if you
have a clue what to look for… like recognizing hand
cut rasp teeth.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

before ebay, There are several guys here on LJ's that sells vintage planes. I'd suggest buying a few from one of them until you get an idea of what to look for. The best place is still garage sales and flea markets. You may even want to try making some planes. They are not that hard to make and a good shop made plane works just as well.

Drop in on some of the saw, chisel and hand plane threads. Lots of good info.

And look through the plane swap thread. Some more good info.


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## Armandhammer (Dec 12, 2013)

I will for sure, and buying from someone on here would be great.


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## 12strings (Nov 15, 2011)

Here's what I've found is useful:

Hand saw: Stanley Sharptooth fine-finish saw. It will cut good and fast for large crosscuts, and even rips pretty well. ($20)
Back-saw: Get the Stanley yellow mitre box that comes with a black-handled back saw. ($15)
Chisels: The Harbor freight 4-piece wood chisel set with hard yellow plastic handles. (do NOT get the one labeled "6-piece wood chisel set"! they may look nicer and have wooden handles, but the metal is completely different and won't hold and edge without rounding over.) ($5)
Get a "Speed Square" ($5-7), and maybe a Combination square…but realize that cheap combo squares are often not square…but a cheap speed square usually is.
Planes: Start with a block plane, learn to use it for everything, then get a jack plane.


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## nwbusa (Feb 21, 2012)

Narex brand chisels are generally well regarded as an inexpensive, quality tool.


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## Josh122 (Jan 2, 2014)

Saw? Japanese saw from big box. Rip and crosscut in one saw and they actually do a good job. I've had one for over a year and still go back to it now and then, even though I've learned to sharpen and mainly use western saws now.

Chisels? I've had the Dewalt chisels for a year and they can hold an edge. I don't like the way they feel or look, but they last. I will be picking up the Stanley remakes though. I was able to try them out and they felt awesome in the hand. Narex is also really good and look a woodworker's tool. They'll run you the same price as the Dewalts. I just picked up a set for my brother and they looked and felt nice. they're also longer than the others you'll find.

Replaceable head mallet for striking the chisels (hard rubber). I got this from HF.

About $60 and you're off and running with a good set of basic tools. Add another $50 at the most for a decent Stanley #5 from ebay or garage sale that will do a mix of work for you.

With those tools I worked for about a year building small tables, boxes, stools and doing multiple styles of joinery, including dovetails, dadoes, mortise/tenon, etc. Oh, and I sharpen with sandpaper. It lasts longer than most people say. Keep everything sharp and it takes less work and $$ to stay that way.

Now the total is just over $100, but you're at least up and running.

Good luck!


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

Second what 12strings said about those HF chisels. I bought a pack a while ago and thought - no way these can be any good but the reviews said they were, and if not who cares because they cost about $1 each with a coupon. It is hands-down the way to go if you know absolutely nothing about chisels and want to try them out. My only complaint is that the steel isn't as hard as I'd like, but we're talking HF for pete's sake. I have not pitted or dented them.


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## Armandhammer (Dec 12, 2013)

Excellent. I was looking at the Narex chisels over at Highland Woodworking. The price is certainly right for a set.

As far as the Japanese saws, yeah, I'm seeing them all over the net for pretty cheap. Might have to grab one or two and see how they workout. I'm looking at an old Disston handsaw as well locally for a potential rip saw. I'll keep an eye out for the plane(s) as well. If I could get a few things to start for $200ish, I'd be a happy camper. I still need to factor in some marking/measuring.squaring tools as well as a sharpening system. I'll likely start with a sandpaper setup and eventually move to stones as I can afford it.


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

Armandhammer - advice on sharpening, I just revamped my system this week, and am really not far removed from where you are, as far as hand tools go. So I know how it feels to be overwhelmed. First you gotta understand - there is no one, correct way to sharpen. A lot of people have their favorite methods and swear by them, and there are principles you need to stick with, but as far as how to use those principles you have to figure it out on your own. I don't see that as a downside, some people hate sharpening but I'm fascinated by it because it's such and art and science.

I started with sandpaper and a granite block and that works great. Went to a cabinet store and they gave me a piece of granite for free that was longer than my Stanley #8. Sandpaper is cheap on the front end, expensive in the long run. When I realized I'd have to buy sandpaper out the yin yang the rest of my life, I got a King 1000/6000 combo stone, although I still used that along with sandpaper. I never liked that King stone, I don't know why it's so popular and I hate saying that but I don't think it works great. So I bought a coarse DMT Dia-Sharp, Shapton Pro 1000 and a Kitayama 8000. Actually, I still use sandpaper to take the rust pits out of old plane blades. Never tried Arkansas stones. I most likely will at some point. When my two stones are done I'll try other brands.

Trust me, if you go the waterstones route you don't need to buy a lot of them. A while back I thought you needed at least four. You do not. With sandpaper you gradually move up the grit chart. Good waterstones let you skip ahead by a lot, and I don't think a lot of people realize this. My Dia-Sharp is used for flattening almost exclusively (it is great for that), I've used it to reshape edges on kitchen knives. I was reading some guy online who bought 10 expensive, relatively new Japanese stones for some idiotic reason. I've redone bevels with sandpaper, but the 1000 and 8000 stones work wonders. I never thought I could get razor sharp but I have, and I want to post a review of the Kitayama. Waterstones can be messy (mine aren't bad) and some people can't stand flattening them all the time. But they cut fast, which is what I like and flattening doesn't bug me. Again, that's just me.

One caveat - if you need to rework a rust-pitted plane blade that's so dull it can't do anything but mash potatoes, you will need to bring it back to life with something besides just a 1000 and 8000 stone. That's why I've still got sandpaper, but I am probably going to buy another diamond stone that's one or two steps more course than the one I've got. I've read people who've said the Dia-Sharps have lasted for 15 years and are still going strong and other people who say they didn't last but 1-2 years. Jury's out in my case, it is interesting the discrepancy there. But I'd rather not get a low-grit waterstone because everyone says they get a dish easier than higher grit waterstones and wear out faster.

Freehand sharpening takes a lot of practice. I used my new stones to sharpen our kitchen knives freehand and that's been kind of frustrating but they are sharper than they were. Not long ago I broke down and got the Veritas honing guide. To me, it's a miracle worker. I said I was fascinated by sharpening, which is true, but I sure don't prefer it over using tools, so anything that's easy and brainless and consistent as that honing guide is nice. Great sharpening comes with consistency. It doesn't matter how you achieve that consistency. Just find out what works best for you, and read up on sharpening principles as much as you can.


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## WillliamMSP (Jan 3, 2014)

Just a word on scouring for used deals - lots of craigslisters are nuts, but there are good deals to be found. Unfortunately, the good deals can go quickly, so keeping an eye on the listings helps. If you want to keep an eye on things without being wedding to your computer while constantly searching the same parameters over and over, set up an RSS feed on your searches so that you can be automatically notified of any new matches/re-listings.


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## Armandhammer (Dec 12, 2013)

Thanks for that wall of text ColonelTravis. That's some good info you passed on.

RRS…yeah, I'll have to figure out how to do that. Don't know much about it…not the most computer savvy person for sure.


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## Armandhammer (Dec 12, 2013)

Chisels…hoping to order a set really soon. Looking at the following:

Two Cherries set of 4 for $122…needs some tuning, being sold less refined to save money
Two Cherries plastic handle set of 4 for $111 or set of 6 for $161
Ashley Iles set of 6 for $150
Stanley Sweetheart 750 Series set of 8 for $169
Narex set of 6 for $60

Thoughts? Suggestions? Alternatives? $169 for the Stanley set is really, really stretching my budget so I'm going to say that $175 shipped is the utmost I can spend. I even thought about trying to piece together something used and vintage…I just need to research that alternative to see what's worth pursuing if I go thought route.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Don't forget to add some inexpensive drafting squares to your arsenal. Not pricey, and very accurate.
Bill


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## Armandhammer (Dec 12, 2013)

Definitely. I was just looking at some…can't remember where. I think they had them listed as engineering squares…they were all metal…is that what you are talking about? I was wondering how accurate the various squares were at places like Sears, Lowes, HD, ect…I don't want to spend loads of money on a square if I don't have to. I've seen some well over $100. I'd like to get some like in the pic…and a combo square or two, some different size framing squares…just want to make sure I'm getting stuff that's not several degrees off. I have enough trouble cutting straight and making proper angles…I don't need junk tools helping me screw things up. I can do that all on my own…lol


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## KelvinGrove (Mar 1, 2013)

Four kinds of tools

1. The best on the market, price be damned. The problem is "Best" is a relative term. I have learned to look at reviews and make a list of all of the features and problems people talk about.
2. The least expensive one that has all of the features and pluses I want. (This is what I buy even though I know that there are better ones out there. Yea, I would love to have a big 220 VAC Saw Stop but once I can cut 24 1/2 inches with 1/64 accuracy (DeWalt 744) for one quarter of the price, I am happy.)
3. Inexpensive quality. Good stuff that will last a life time in hobby use but never quite enough to really do what you want. (By the big router first)
4. Don't bother. And you will see many of these listed in the review's section.

And of course, the golf club rule applies….if you have a 20 handicap you need lessons, not more expensive clubs!

By the way. I am an old Putnam County boy…what part of 304 are you from?

Tim


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## Armandhammer (Dec 12, 2013)

Hampshire County…up in the thumb.

I keep forgetting about the review section. Heading there now to look at chisel reviews.


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## KelvinGrove (Mar 1, 2013)

Yep, I have been to Romney a few times! Ya know, the nice thing about being from WV is you are really from everywhere! What with Harper's Ferry being 25 miles from DC and Huntington being west of Cleveland Ohio….We have most of the eastern US covered!

Lots of luck on the tool choices by the way.


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## Armandhammer (Dec 12, 2013)

Yup…good old Romney. That's where I live actually. Hoping to move soon, staying in the county, just to a different house with more property and a shop space!


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## Armandhammer (Dec 12, 2013)

Chisels taken care of. Grabbed a set of Narex last night from Lee Valley along with some sharpening stuff. I'll order a Japanese handsaw sometime this evening to get started with. Measuring and marking will be up next, then some planes. Of course I need to start my clamp collection as well. Actually I did…I found a set of four Irwin 24" bar clamps in the clearance bin at Lowes the other day marked 50% off, so I grabbed them.


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## alohafromberkeley (Oct 26, 2011)

Can never have too many clamps.I have a box of F-clamps from Harbor Freight bought on sale for, IIRC, $2 each ….Look into Gyokucho or Z-saws..Japanese pull saws are the best bang for the buck (same with Mujifang planes)


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## Armandhammer (Dec 12, 2013)

Saw ordered. Grabbed me a Japanese Gyokucho Dozuki saw. Vendor is in the same state as me which surprised me, so I should have it this week.


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## Tedstor (Mar 12, 2011)

1-2-3 blocks were a cheap tool that I've found VERY useful. I use them to set-up my machines. Square-up a circular saw or jig saw blade. Gauge squareness of a drill bit to a workpeice. and about a thousand other functions. Look these up. They've been recently discussed on this site. For $10-15, its a good tool(s) to have on-hand.










http://www.amazon.com/Anytime-Matched-Hardened-Precision-Machinist/dp/B00BGBOJZO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1389184463&sr=8-2&keywords=1-2-3+block


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## KelvinGrove (Mar 1, 2013)

Armandhammer,

Back to your comment about squares. One of those long forgotten things came back to mind reading this again….something I saw my grandpa do. In the tack room he had a bench. He would set a long trough up on it and fill it with water all the way to the top. He would tie a plumb bob to the rafter above it so that the bob was just submerged. He would hold his old wooden squares down with one side just touching the surface of the water (it takes a steady hand) and the other side to the string. That intersection is, by definition, square.


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