# high carbon steel chisels; sheffield steel?



## smitty001 (Mar 12, 2012)

Okay I'm a total beiginner to wood working and I'm trying to:

A. Build a basic tool kit for hand tool woodworking.

B. Save up cash to buy a bench.

Which brings me to my question where can I find a reasonibly priced set of high carbon steel chisels. (Not japanese). I want high carbon steel for ease of sharpening. Now I've seen the set lie neilson has for 275 bucks but that is a little out of my price range.

And my second question what is sheffield steel. Is it just steel from England. In any of the various alloys that tool steel are.


----------



## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

I've heard good things about these.


----------



## Loren (May 30, 2008)

The Narex are said to be very good for the price. The Marples
may have gone downhill, but they used to be a very good
value and old-stock ones can be got on ebay sometimes at
reasonable prices.

One thing to look for is the long chisel blades that make them
more suitable for a variety of tasks in furniture work. The 
short-bladed hardware store chisels are more suited to
rough work and carpentry.

Sheffield brands are (were): Marples, Footprint, Sorby, Stanley UK,
Crown. They are all generally pretty decent and sometimes
much better.


----------



## jdmaher (May 4, 2011)

I got a set of the Stanley Sweethearts that Bondo pointed out. Pretty good so far, but I've only had them about 3 months.

And I agree with Loren, longer chisel blades are important.


----------



## laxbograt (Oct 4, 2011)

I Have a set of WoodRiver chisels form Woodcraft that have served me well, I also have a set of Narex Mortise chisels and I was very impressed with the quality, I would assume the quality would be as good for there Bench chisels.

Carlos


----------



## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

If you're into lookin' around, scratch thru the junk shops. I have lots of W. Butcher cast steel chisels that I've found for $5.. to $10.00. A little clean up and sharpening. Great tools ( any Butcher tools) and not expensive.
Old Stanleys, Buck Bros. too.
Bill


----------



## BubbaIBA (Nov 23, 2011)

I agree with Bill White….find used chisels (there are many good brands so it makes no never mind as to brand) at junk shops, yard sales, eBay, pay no more than $5 USD each, as long as they are pre-WWII the steel will usually be good. If you buy socket chisels without handles and do not have a lathe you can find handles on eBay, so do not let the lack of a handle stop you if the chisel is the correct size.

Spend your money on a low speed grinder and a good set of stones i.e. a extra-extra course diamond plate, a soft Arkansas, a hard Arkansas, and either a surgical black or a translucent Arkansas and learn to sharpen on your cheap chisels. You will be ahead of the game, you will learn to flatten backs, grind bevels, and hone and when mistakes are made, and mistakes will be made, all you have lost is a $5 USD hunk of steel. Then add "good" (read expensive) chisels once you know how to keep 'em sharp. The best part of doing it that way is once you get a set of good, sharp pre-WWII chisels you probably will not feel the need to spend $500 USD on a set of LN or whatever.


----------



## BubbaIBA (Nov 23, 2011)

Just want to add….I have several sets of post WWII chisels, some expensive ones, and 90% of the time I will reach for one of my re-habed pre-WWII chisels. I find the pre-WWII chisels will be sharper, will hold the edge almost as long as the newer chisels, and because I've turned the handle to fit me and the chisel they work better. YMMV.


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I have used Marpels chisels for 25 years and my students have bought them and the work fine and hold there edge.
There always seems to be a big thing about chisels most of them work fine if sharpened properly. Some folks that can afford them spend $450 or more per chisel ,to me this makes no sense ,I can only guess the folks that spend that much are trying to impress some one or they are of the mind set that if it's the most expensive it must be the best ,possible but not always true. Many of the less expensive brands brands have wood handles I suspect that the nice looking wood helps them sell to wood workers,but the plastic handles on Marple chisels are tough as nails and shaped to help prevent them from rolling off an uneven surfaces . This type of plastic is much more durable than wood this is important because you have to strike the end of the handles to make them cut in some cases. For about $10 each in sets of 4 or 6 they will last a long time. Chisels have very simple task to do ,just cut wood and it doesn't take a $400+ tool to do that .For the most part new chisels are not sharp out of the box so you need to learn how to sharpen them and that process is even open for debate whether you should buy a $750 sharpening system or use something as simple as the scary sharp method that cost very little and works great. It's hard on new folks because they get so many opinions about what way to go as far as tools go. My advise is if you can borrow or use the tool before you buy it all the better and until you can get some experience in wood working (other than big tools like table saws)buy a less expensive tool to start and trade up later. Most of all enjoy this great thing called woodworking!


----------



## jonoseph (Dec 13, 2015)

I am going back in time as far as I can for chisels from Sheffield .My latest ones are made by Brades and I have never noticed before the detail of the tangs . Every other Sheffield tang is just a tapered four sided pointy bit to fit in the handle .But the Brades chisel tangs have all been worked on separately . Each side of the tangs has about six dents all along to the tip to make them grip the handles better . Dents on all four sides even for the smallest chisels . That`s amazing attention to detail.Maybe I am the first to notice that .Hidden out of sight all these years . Easy to recognise the maker`s brand name stamped on the chisels .The name is enclosed in an oblong . The Brades mark can be seen on other tools as WHS which was translated as Work Hard or Starve .


----------



## jonoseph (Dec 13, 2015)

You need to read about the History of Sheffield Steel making going back before 1860 to get a better idea . The Bessemer Converter invention gave the Sheffield makers a huge contract for making Railway Lines to be exported all over the world . A nice little earner . Before that they developed the technology to make cutting edge tools . The city had 3 fast flowing rivers to keep factories running .Lots of coal to heat the steel and local supplies of millstone grit to sharpen the tools . Also a number of hellishly steep hills .


----------



## MikeB_UK (Jul 27, 2015)

Sheffield probably made the best steel in the western world up to about 70 years ago.
If you can find vintage sheffield chisels (probably a lot harder for you than me to find them) they will work fine and be cheaper than an equivalent modern one.

Best bang for the buck for modern chisels is probably Narex.

For sharpening, you can now get a set of cheapo chinesium diamond stones (400, 600, 1000, 1200 grit) for about $20-$30, I got some a shortish while back to try them out and have been fairly impressed with them, not sure how long they will last, but way cheaper than scary sharp and will certainly last more than long enough for you to figure out what you want to end up with. Them and a strop is all I've used so far this year and have had no issues.

UK Amazon Link, just search amazon or ebay or somewhere - if they look like these they will probably be fine


----------



## MikeB_UK (Jul 27, 2015)

> Also a number of hellishly steep hills.
> 
> - jonoseph


You're only saying that because you live on a billiard table John, come over to the Peak District and see some proper hills


----------



## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

About a month ago I was at WoodCraft and they had their Bench Chisel set on sale for IIRC 69 bux. I haven't used them extensively, as I just got them, but they are miles better than the Narex chisels I got some years ago, which do take and edge fine, just won't hold it for more than a few jabs. The Narex are miles better than the modern day Stanleys, Irwin, 2 Cherries, and Buck Brothers.

Wood River Bench chisels I had seen these on sale several times, so pretty sure they will be again. They come in a wooden box. Not the best wooden box, but still a place to keep them together, and from rolling off the bench.


----------



## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

50 years of buying the wrong tools, I have some conclusions.

I bought a set of Marples yellow handles back in the 70's thinking they were the end all. Very sharp once properly tuned. ( That took about 10 years of learning and the wrong tools) No complaints as I only had big box tools to compare them to. Recently I bought a Narlex-R 1/2 inch as that is my go-to size. Yea, there is a difference. Maybe the Marples are lifetime as I will never grind them away, but I can't say enough about the Narlex. I do have a pile of cheaper chisels if I have to smack one on hardwood cross-grain. They roll, chip, and dull, but no tears. But the Narlex with hand or just a gentle persuasion cuts like glass.

WoodRiver does seem to make good tools. Not great, but good. Wait until you can afford and appreciate the feel of great before spending big bucks. Good gets the job done. Good can be trustworthy that what happens is you, not the tool. Not as impressed with Taytools. Good, but need more tuning to get there.

Hint: You don't need to buy full sets of everything when you start.

Yea, a Lie Neilson plane is a pleasure to use, but a well tuned Stanley cuts just as well. A Buck does not.

Never had much luck with scrapers until I got decent ones. An old exhaust valve is an OK burnisher. Beats a screw driver.

There is no tool more expensive than a cheap tool. I must have had 4 or 5 dovetail saws. Never could get a saw to assembly cut. Never true. Bought a Froip. Magic.

Thought myself how to sharpen traditional English pattern panel and rip saws. I have a much renewed respect for hand saws and grab them far more often. I was surprised how easy it was to learn. I tried and tried to learn Japanese saws. For me, just does not compute. Everyone is different. Fortunately I have my grandfathers 7, 8, and 12 point Distons. When sharp, even my Wards rip cuts like butter. I don't know if anyone makes just plain good saws these days. I do use one of those disposable Stanley Japanese tooth saws for rough carpentry stuff, but just got a Makita 5 1/2 cordeless, and that is a wonderful tool.

I would start with simple DIY bench until you find what works for you, then build one. One you buy may not be the right height and I have never seen one for sale as heavy as I want. My current one is set for sitting down ( bad back), made of 2×8 SYP. Split top. Moxon on one end, my old Record face on the front. Only 2×5 foot. For stand up plaining, my TS outfeed is 38 high and I use DIY doge in it.

Biggest place I wasted money is on sharpening. Must have bought 6 machines and as many jigs. Now, a CBN wheel on a Rikon grinder, a 300 grit diamond, 1200 diamond ( DMT) and a 16,000 Sharpton. I do use my Veritas jig when I first come off the grinder, but the rest I can do by hand. No more piles of paper, small increments in stones, buffing wheels, old slow Black or Spydersc ceramics. No worksharp, Makita wet, Tormec clone, M-power, etc. Again, I follow the Cosman method.

One of my biggest problems has always been marking. Squares not square. Gauges bouncing around. I finally bought a much better 6 and 12 inch combo squares. Made my own marking knife out of a kitchen knife. I was talked into mechanical pencils, but have gone back to wood. I keep a pencil sharpener on the wall handy. I am modifying a cheap "dovetail" saw into a marking saw to use the Cosman method of dovetail marking. Finally, it works! I gave up on scratch and knife marking gauges, bought a middle of the road wheel gauge and after getting the wheel sharp, finally I can make a fine strait mark without following the grain.

Be wary of the "old is better" Sometimes it is. Yea, a Bedrock pattern Stanley is easier to adjust than a Bailey, but how often do you adjust your frog? I do on my smoother ( so I bought a Wood River) but from #5 up, they stay fixed.

You can get very nice sets of rulers, deep etched from Amazon.

The Stanly Fat Max coping saws have far more tension than most. No complaints. Get good blades and they meet the "good" level.

If I were to start over, I think I would force myself to go metric.

Even a hand woodworker needs some power tools. Can't say enough about my Fein vac. Quiet. HEPA. I still do most rough out with power. I can afford good drill bits for a cordless, but not for a brace. ( My preference is for Milwaukee 12V, and Makita 18V) Never got good enough to use an egg-beater, but never had a good one either.

Of all my power tools, as my skill progresses, I could do without the planer and jointer. Then if I had to, drop the TS. It would be harder to drop the BS and DP. Of course, enough molding planes to replace the router would cost a lot more than my router and bits and they area lot harder to use on curves. Oh yea, I do have a lathe. Made a few handles with it. Mostly it has had buffing wheels on it for my other hobby, polishing parts for my Triumph Stag.


----------



## RyanGi (Jan 13, 2021)

The big deal with Sheffield steel was that it was far superior during a time of mediocre steel. That time has passed and good steel is not difficult to find. You can still buy crap, however. To start, I'd buy a set of 4 standard size Narex bevel edge chisels. 1/4", 1/2", 3/4", and 1" (assuming you're using imperial). They're a good quality steel and well put together to get started. From there, save up and buy the 'in between' sizes you need from a higher end source.

Arguably Veritas PMV11 steel may be the best quality hand tool steel available today. It was custom formulated just for that application. Lie Nielsen bevel edge chisels are also superior, and there are others. But the key is that you don't need several of them at once. Wait until you've got a project you're working on and then spend a little money to buy one nice 'in between' chisel. You can use the Narex chisels to beat on a bit, and not feel bad about it, then clean up your cuts with a high quality chisel as a finisher.

But, if you're going to get into hand tools, you need to take hard consideration on sharpening equipment. It doesn't matter how bad ass, amazing, high end chisel or plane or gouge you get yourself…they'll all get dull before too long. In fact, many hand wood workers sharpen (or at least hone) their blades several times during a given project. If you make it simple and easy to upkeep your tools, you'll do it…and when you do it, you'll find your results are sooooo much better.

There are lots of options out there. After trying a couple, I've settled on the WorkSharp3000. Diamond plates and wet stones were too messy and took too much time to sharpen or hone 'quickly' while working. I'm not accurate enough without a guide to keep the angle perfect like some of the greats do (ie - Cosman, et al). The Tormek systems are awesome, but a bit expensive for my as a hobbiest. The WorkSharp is simple to use (I do use a guide when shaping or sharpening, but not for honing), versatile, and not nearly as messy! And I get great, repeatable results from it. I mounted it on a slide out tray under my workbench so it's right there. Since it's easy, I'm happy to hone my blades multiple times during a project…which means I have to formally sharpen them less, and when I do it's that much faster since the angles were set and maintained using a more accurate method in the first place. YMMV, but figure out what system works for you and go for it. Sharpening gear is one of the most important tools you'll every invest in, so don't cheap out…without it, the rest of your tools will only ever be mediocre at best.










And as for a workbench, don't buy one, make one!! Nothing wrong with yellow pine or Doug fir 2×4s laminated together. Building a bench is a great way to learn skills and make something custom and sized just for you.


----------



## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

I used to have a set of Lie Neilson A2 chisels. They look nice and the tool roll was beautifully made I just didn't like A2 steel for chisel work. At the time I was doing a lot Dovetails. 
The edges chipped unless the bevel angle was steep. And sharpening A2 isn't that much fun.
I practically gave them away for short money. I don't recommend them 
Good Luck


----------



## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

+1 A2 chisels are no fun to sharpen. 
Not recommended, unless using high quality Japanese water stones to sharpen.

-1 Narex. 
Narex basic inexpensive chisels stink, IMHO. Bought and sold a set as they dull/chip easily. The new Narex Richter seem to be better steel, during my in store testing. But the price tag is near LN V2 or Veritas PM11; making the value proposition weak.

-1 New Stanley 750 chisels.
Another over rated chisel that I owned and sold. The older antique Stanley chisels stay sharp longer, and have better balance/feel in my hands.

+1 Old Antique (Sheffield Steel) Marple's are excellent, and new Marple's are a waste of money.
The new version won't make 2 cuts without chipping, unless using a steep 25° or less bevel angle.

+1 Used Chisels.
Old Stanley chisels live up to the Sheffield steel legend. The old Buck Bros and W. Butcher have wonderful steel too. Not as durable as V2, PM11 or Japanese HSS; but if found for <$10 are garage sale in decent shape; are solid user grade chisels. Don't need sets of chisels. Which makes buying used a couple of common sizes for dovetails, or paring work; a great option. Only mortise chisels I own are couple of Buck Bros, and 2 Cherries; bought used.

Not sorry, but I like Japanese chisel steel the best. Even the cheap white steel in Grizzly chisels is great. Holds an edge longer than my antique Sheffield steel, and is easier to sharpen than V2, PM11, or Japanese blue/HSS steel. Once you use Japanese chisels, umm, well you get the point…..

YMMV


----------



## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

So….what was the difference between Sheffield Steel..and Swedish Steel?


----------



## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

Narex chisels, only set I have ever owned and I have no complaints. Worksharp is what I prefer to sharpen with. Real quick and I can do the whole set quickly.

Buy a workbench? I too thought about going this route to get up and running faster, glad I didn't. It became my onramp to woodworking and what is possible with hand tools. There are many designs out there so you may want to check out Christopher Schwarz and Paul Sellers. Paul is the king of cheap and can show you a thing or two. I settled on a Moravian bench and followed Will Myers plan and video using lumber from the big box store. Good luck and get started.


----------



## AMZ (Jan 27, 2020)

Since you are a beginner, dip your toes before diving in! Basic tenets need followed: every edge tool, if used, will need sharpening. Every project will need marked out, and so forth. You don't need to purchase complete sets of anything to dip your toes, just buy decent quality.

Now, as far as chisels, what has not been said, is edge retention depend on wood used, your habits in using the tool, angle of sharpening, etc. I've been doing woodworking way too many decades to know or understand who or what to recommend, but maybe a few here can give a few suggestions for media or Youtube videos. The only video I'veseen aimed at beginners is "Rex Kruger", but others should comment on appropriateness.


----------



## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

Many of these replies may convince that you can spend the rest of your life and a considerable fortune getting a "proper" set of hand tools. If that is your choice, have at it. I suggest you choose a project - perhaps your first bench - and plan it completely to determine the required tools. Buy those only.


----------



## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

When I am at any flea market or craft fair here in Spain and I see anything made from Sheffield steel, I buy it, even if I dont need it. I once snatched up one very old very good condition fishtail chisel that I just love to carve with.


----------



## jonoseph (Dec 13, 2015)

Here is a nice coincidence .I have already mentioned the Bessemer Converter and Sheffield Railway Line production .Well now Sheffield has the world`s biggest factory for separating Hydrogen from Oxygen to create a new green energy source . And guess where that is . In Bessemer Park . They will use the hydrogen for heating houses instead of gas . It`s all a bit new so I can`t remember the name of the process . Electrolyser .I think that`s the word .


----------

