# This is interesting



## closetguy (Sep 29, 2007)

I got this email today from a guy today claiming intellectual design infringement on, I guess, one of my cutting board styles. I've never heard of this company so I went out and looked at his web site and some of his boards look like one of mine. In fact, according to his email, he says I can't use all walnut for a cutting board? Is this absurd or what? Email Follows:

**
Hello Dennis,

I just found several of your end grain cutting boards on www.etsy.com and your website that are styled after my uniquie look. This is intellectual design property that is owned by (Name Omittted) Once you go to my website, you will immediately see the design that you have used. I have no problem with the other busy designs that you make, but to copy my design was either a mistake by accident or a blaten infringment. I am asking you to stop using my design and pull and destroy all look-a-like product you have as inventory. The solid walnut end grain cutting board is also very close to infringment too. As this board is a staple product on Food Network and has been for many, many years.

I hope you can see the view from my eyes, as if someone copied your design you'd ask them to stop as well. I will give you 30 days to comply or we will start litigation and seek monetary damages.

Thank you for your prompt response.

*****

I think he is referring to this board


----------



## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

Maybe they should pay you for you design? I would not even give it a second thought, its all BS. Send them you lawyers name that will shut him up. I saw two crafters in OKlahoma at a show "Affairs of the heart" that make and sell the same board, one guy uses a CNC machine and cranks them out. everyone makes them!


----------



## Rustic (Jul 21, 2008)

I wonder if he has a patent on it. I doubt that someone would patent a cutting board made out of wood. It would have to be a unique design. I would check with a lawyer and find out the facts. If he was professional he would have addressed the email "Dear Mr. (insertname). Check with a lawyer anyways


----------



## majeagle1 (Oct 29, 2008)

I also doubt that there is an actual patent on that particular design. I went to his website, ozarkwest.com and all I see is some "similarities", also I see that at the bottom of his website there is a copyright for 2009, which means it is new, and that may in fact be just for his website / business name.
I wonder if you could get information from the patent office or copyright office?????

I actually wonder if he copied "YOU" !!!!

Also just noticed that his does not have a hand hold !!!

Good luck and BTW - your's look much better, your website also !!!!


----------



## scottj (Mar 15, 2009)

I seriously doubt that he would patent all of his designs. Even if he did it would have to be almost exactly the same. Are you by chance, selling yours cheaper than he is? I wouldnt sweat it too much.


----------



## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

In their own words on the cutting board page "...you will receive a beautiful one-of-a-kind culinary product."

I do not see how they can claim intellectual property to "one-of-a-kind" designs. Further more, I'll bet if you were charging more than them, it wouldn't be a problem.

Furthermore, the email reads like an extortion note.


----------



## Timbo (Aug 21, 2008)

You could email him back requesting either Proof of patent infringement, (which he will not be able to provide) or to Cease-and-desist. that should shut him up….what a joke! Or a really slick way of getting some free advertisement.


----------



## RjGall (Jun 16, 2008)

Dennis I just went to his site and I have to tell you I don't see any resemblance between his and yours*
He uses 1 *type *of wood,* you use more than one besides that how does he know what size your laminated/segmented pieces are among other aspects of your cutting boards ?
You also router an area out on the bottom for your hands . I would think you would have to copy his to the T before any judge would look twice at this . I really don't think he can patent it " I'm not sure" but how could he do that ? His design has been done before by alot of woodworkers, its nothing special thats for sure.
I think he thinks he can corner the market on Walnut cutting boards ,too me thats insane.
So what now nobody can make and sell Walnut or Cherry Etc. cutting boards .

I think he's blowing alot of hot air


----------



## GaryC (Dec 31, 2008)

Maybe about 150 LJ's should make the same board and put them up for sale. That would toast his marshmellows.


----------



## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

I'll second Tim's suggestion - reply back and request a reference to his proof of patent on his design. if there is none, and he cannot supply you with one - he can just have one big cup of shutup


----------



## Betsy (Sep 25, 2007)

Dennis - I wouldn't get a gray hair over it. I can't believe anyone would say a completely walnut end grain board is patentable and that no one else can do it. I think I'm going to out to my shop and make a completely cherry end grain board and corner the market. He's blowing hot air. Has he ever heard of a butcher block?

I'd ignore him. If he sends another e-mail send him a lawyers name and tell him to bring it on. Then when he tries you can nail him and get your attorneys fees and a little pocket change.

By the way - nice looking board!


----------



## closetguy (Sep 29, 2007)

After doing a thorough search, I found no less than 10 different companies selling the same design. There's one guy on ebay selling a bunch of them. I wonder who they stole the design from? We couldn't possibly think up this complicated pattern on our own.

As far as I can remember, the last time someone got upset with me because I arranged the color blocks the same as his, was in kindergarten.

The funny part of this is that over the past two years, I have only sold one of these. Everyone always wants the Wood Whisperer or Popular Woodworking design. Now, if Marc figures out how to spell intellectual design, I'm in trouble….


----------



## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

Like I said he should pay you. You made them before he did so the design is yours and he stole your design.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

What is Wood Whisperer or Popular Woodworking design? The blocks?


----------



## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I hope no one sues me for that four-legged table I made. I think I may have copied the idea from somewhere. Or maybe it's just that the two-legged tables kept falling over…


----------



## closetguy (Sep 29, 2007)

Charliem, that is the best reply yet. I almost dropped my coffee from laughing at it.

This is the Wood Whisperer style that I can't seem to keep in stock









This is the Popular Woodworking Mag style


----------



## Karson (May 9, 2006)

Ops that Popular Woodworkinmg version has Walnut in it. Is he going to sue them also.


----------



## barryrichardson (May 2, 2009)

I would ask to see his copyright/patent documentation. I know the site you are talking about. Frankly, I think their boards are uninspired in design and way overpriced. It seems to me the only way you could get in trouble is if you used their name to sell your boards. I sell lots of end grain cutting boards at craft shows, as do tons of other people, this person needs to get over himself, his stuff ain't that original.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Thanks, those look good. Glad they are patented ;-))


----------



## Neodogg (Jan 6, 2009)

unless you got that letter in certified mail via UPSP or hand delivered by the sheriff, then you never "got" the letter! well, at least that is what my lawyer tells me?


----------



## DaleM (Feb 18, 2009)

I had to stop laughing at Charlie M.'s post before I could even type this. Hilarious! 
I don't believe there is really a problem here. Every shop class in every high school in America, and probably other countries, turns out so many of these each year that there are bound to be similar ones. Is he going to threaten them too? Just ridiculous.


----------



## Moai (Feb 9, 2009)

You should tell us the name an company of that idiot!


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

This is crazy


----------



## Chinitorama (May 14, 2009)

Closetguy,

How can this guy say you're ripping him off? Wow. I can understand one's right to protect designs, etc…but seriously! He's being ridiculous. What's next? "Dear sir we've noticed you've used curves in your work and we use curves too so blah blah blah…" 
I'm more inclined to think that having his cutting boards featured on tv has swollen his head more than a little. If anything people will see his boards on tv and be inspired to copy the "unique look" themselves rather than ordering them online. He's being a knob.

-J.


----------



## gator9t9 (Apr 4, 2008)

all I can say is ….."ITs All been done before " And he could use some spelling lessons too…..He can't even spell unique…..haha…..


----------



## GaryC (Dec 31, 2008)

gator, I think you've stumbled on the problem. Closetguy, all you need to do is find out exactly what uniquie is and don't do that any more…...case closed!


----------



## Mario (Apr 23, 2007)

WOW that is funny… did he also patent flat cutting boards.


----------



## rhett (May 11, 2008)

Looks like he doesn't want any competition. A cutting board is a design infringement, please. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I was told in a woodworking class that you can pretty much build exact replicas of any design as long as the dimensions differ by a minimum of 10%. Besides how many Maloof replicas have you seen. That is design.


----------



## JohnnyR (May 7, 2008)

It looks like he is trying out the business model of "If you can't make money on your sales, try to make it through litigation"... or intimidation. Ignore him.

J.R.


----------



## BigTim (Jan 17, 2008)

Cripes! I'm in big trouble. Almost every one of my designs is a result of seeing something simmilar, somewhere.
You don't even need a lawer, unless you DO have one. Just pick a lawers name out of the phone book & send the info to the jerk. Tell him you've been building this kind of board for 25+ years( or more) & tell him you believe HE owes YOU roalities for all the boards he has made!


----------



## Russel (Aug 13, 2007)

The email reads likes this guy heard a lawyer talking once and figured he could do it too. It's somewhat amusing seeing people trying to be bullies when it doesn't come naturally.


----------



## getneds (Mar 18, 2009)

so crown moulding must be a huge problem. Cuz every shop i've ever been to has the basic same cutters, same shapes. And all the crown i installed on a 45 degree angle, someone thought of that, I must owe someone millions. Man I used to think woodworking was a past time. Lets take everyones house now cuz they turn pens that are round, and use ink. Someone elses idea…...that is hilarious. I can't believe people have nothing better to do, Go sweep something will ya.

don't tell noone but I built a few hutches before too …....yikes

and these bandsaw boxes you guys are making…....I don't even want to know…... I never saw them.

lol I got a kick out of this thread.


----------



## damianpenney (Jun 22, 2007)

Ask him for the number of his design patent (the only kind of IP he could possibly own), if he doesn't have one then he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

If he does have one then we'll all be able to look it up on the uspto site and examine how similar the two designs are.


----------



## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

Most patents are no good and do not hold up if they even get to court. I remember seeing a show on it once and was surprised to find out patents don't really mean much anyway.


----------



## Rustic (Jul 21, 2008)

In that case I would be in serious trouble too. The game boards that I made recently were a patented idea too. Oh well, sue me.


----------



## mmh (Mar 17, 2008)

Can he prove he invented this design and has a valid copyright? One only needs to alter a licensed design by 20%.

If he thinks a simple cuttingboard design is infringed upon, how about something major like Sam Maloof's rocking chair?

Tell him you wish him well in his future entity, but you will not be abliging to any infringement policies, as you have created your designs without his influence. Apparently he has found your designs via the internet and may be infringing upon you. Cyberspace laws may apply. (And, the wood you used is not from the same tree, so it let it be.)

He sounds to be a Gold Digger or Ambulance Chaser sort of guy. Looking for a free one at your expense. Not to mention, any attorney willing to take on such a case would demand a hefty retainer fee. I doubt he'd put down 2K or more to push this one.

If you REALLY need a lawyer, e-mail me and I'll direct you to the law firm I retired from. They have 60 some offices world-wide.


----------



## damianpenney (Jun 22, 2007)

You can't copyright a functional item, all you can do is get a design patent, and there is no chance he has one, and if he does have one there is no chance it would ever stand up in court due to all the prior art. Just ignore him.


----------



## Tearen (Aug 2, 2007)

My patent lawyer at work just laughed when I showed him this. To quote him… "Tell the guy to go pound sand!"


----------



## RedShirt013 (May 17, 2008)

Nowadays people will patent anything not for protecting their intellectual properties but solely for suing others down the road. It's a failure of the US patent system where people can get one by submitting vague ideas with no product development whatsoever and still have in honored in court. In computers there's tons of patent infrnigement lawsuits suing big companies who spent millions developing and debugging a working software only to be sued by some lazy people sitting on their ass, claim they patent an idea of "software which automatically updates itself via the internet".

It's probably some guy hoping you will settle and to make a quick buck or somebody whose full time job is patenting vague concepts. Tell him your lawyer's name and he will back off, I can't see how the case would hold up in court. He'd be a nobody since he's not going after big corporations anyway.

Back when I took an industrial design class, one thing my instructor always fumed about is how Ikea stole the finished designs of many artists and mass produced them, and got away with it. It's just the way it is, if the person is lucky people will remember who made it first, but that's it


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

The guy that patented the wiper delay switch used by the big three in all their cars starting in the late 60's finally settled for something in the neighborhood of $100,000 after 30 years in court. When asked why he settled, he said he was in his 80's and wasn't going to live long enough to get paid the true value.


----------



## miles125 (Jun 8, 2007)

Write the guy back and tell him you got an almost exact word for word email from another a**hole the day before, who is now pondering litigation for his literary copyright infringement.


----------



## Splinterman (Mar 13, 2009)

The guy sounds like a real drop kick…........tell him to bring it on or….....get off the pot.


----------



## rosewood (Apr 2, 2009)

Just ignore him, 
he thinks that you are a small and little guy who has no friends and ability to shout him back,

Rosewood,


----------



## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

Okay I am suing everyone that ever made anything out of maple..I was the first person to make "stuff" out of maple and I request you all cease and desist or I will start litigation as soon as I can find my tin foil hat..

I really like the first deign, the one he thinks you stole…I think I will steal it myself…


----------



## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

Wouldn't this fall under artistic freedom? If I'm an artist and paint a round faced red haired girl can someone say that you can't paint that type of girl?

If he had invented the cutting board then maybe he might have something.


----------



## SPMaximus (Mar 2, 2009)

Oh the hilarity 
Please oh please email him back, and if he responds again, post it!


----------



## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

Holy crap, I just realized I made cutting boards with a checkerboard design…am I going to get sued by anyone who has ever been "kinged"? Maybe Josef Checkers, the patent holder for the checkerboard design will sue me now…..heavens to megetroid…


----------



## bluchz (Mar 1, 2009)

Wow has anyone here made a chess board? that guy must be really mad, i mean it's basically a cutting board. Hmm Maybe none of you have thought of that don't steal my idea! rofl


----------



## BlankMan (Mar 21, 2009)

I don't know you can patent something like this, I always thought designs were covered by copyrights.

And to make one for private use and not for sale, that can be stopped?? I like to think not. And to request you destroy them?? Whoa. What's he smokin'?

Regardless, I side with what Tearen's lawyer said, pound sand.


----------



## Ottis (Apr 17, 2009)

Well hell, Norm of the New Yankee work shop is in BIIiiiiiig trouble…all he does is drive around to other people shops and musems….takes measurements and pictures and then goes back to his shop and copy it…then he has the gall to sell the plans to it…sheeesh, the nerve of that guy !!!! Why just today….he had the nerve to make a "WOODEN LADDER" !!!!


----------



## BlankMan (Mar 21, 2009)

Oh-oh. Wonder if Brad is next… 

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/17044


----------



## miles125 (Jun 8, 2007)

Shallow pockets is my strategy of choice to combat this. And i'm very good at it.


----------



## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

Curt…you jinxed me..I was just contacted by Helmut ZigZag, and Josef Checkers about possible litigation..


----------



## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

Don't worry about them, Dave. When you hear from Dewey, Cheatum and Howe- then you need to worry :^)


----------



## BlankMan (Mar 21, 2009)

Brad,, I knew it…. LOL


----------



## davidroberts (Nov 8, 2008)

of the talk that we should all make a board of the same design. fine, go for it. that is not against the law if you are making it for your own use and not selling bagillions of them. notice than norm does not reproduce new items, only old ones with no issues of patent infringement. i wonder if the guy is more concerned with the geometric design, rther than a rectangular cutting board made of wood. my brother in law tried to use the word "monsters" in a company name and was suied. it drug on for several years. i'd say forgetaboutit, but don't be surprised if you find a certified letter in your mail box soon.


----------



## cabinetmaster (Aug 28, 2008)

If he has no patent he has no grounds for litigation…...............What in the world is going on with people these days? Everyone wants to sue over the smallest issue.


----------



## GaryC (Dec 31, 2008)

My plan is to sue everyone that makes the same mistakes as me!!!


----------



## BlankMan (Mar 21, 2009)

Gary, you'll need to make it a class action suit… Everybody will be on both sides….


----------



## Padre (Nov 5, 2008)

He is full of baloney! Just ignore it, and continue on with your excellent work.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Don, Norm has enough sense to copy dead people's stuff. They can't get 'im )


----------



## Sawdust2 (Mar 18, 2007)

BlankMan, is that a double breasted class action suit? Does it come with a vest?
Class action suits have a checkered (board) past.

Closetguy, just tell him: "Up against the wall, nut."

If he does sue you my law office is in Powder Springs.

Lee


----------



## closetguy (Sep 29, 2007)

Well, I responded to his email and got a pretty nasty reply. He never answered my direct question with a direct answer, but he did send a PDF file of pictures of my boards he says are in violation. I wonder if he violated my rights by stealing my pictures off my web site and transmitting them across State lines without my permission?  Anyway, I'm not going to post his reply, but here is my first response to him.

"I appreciate your interest in my boards. However, I need better clarification on your concerns. Your email is so broad that I do not understand what you call "intellectual design property" and what specifically I have violated in your mind. The only thing I can ascertain is that you seem to have a problem with me making boards out of walnut. Please be more specific. Regards!"

This is one of my boards he claims I am in "violation" of stealing his ideas









Now I can't figure out how anyone in their right mind would try to claim copyright infringement for making anything out of a particular wood species.


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

That's a really nice board. No wonder he wants to claim it ;-))


----------



## saddlesore (Oct 17, 2007)

Have your lawyer send him a letter accusing him of stealing YOUR design and then just let things ferment. I can guarantee he will drop the matter entirely.


----------



## GaryC (Dec 31, 2008)

Hey Dennis, I think you stole my board. My wife wants you to send it back!


----------



## closetguy (Sep 29, 2007)

I finally hit on the problem. Apparently we are building our boards out of wood from the same tree. No wonder there is so much confusion. I just have to prove who bought their lumber first. Maybe the saw mill should be sued.


----------



## Karson (May 9, 2006)

Can you post a picture of his board so we can see the similiarity.


----------



## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

Here is something interesting. Do a Google search for "end grain walnut cutting boards" and you will get 16800 hits.

Is he going to claim that 16799 are violating his "intellectual property"? (One of the hits was his.)


----------



## JimBuchanan (Mar 25, 2009)

I'm not a patent attorney, and I am not giving legal advice. However, I do own part of a software company, and we've got quite a bit of IP (intellectual property), and we have had to make sure our products don't violate some very loosely worded patents.

The USPTO has been very loose with it's requirements of late. They are issuing patents for all sorts of things that have prior art (already exist) only to find that they screwed up. One of the more egregious errors they've committed recently was highlighted by Jim Harper of the Cato Institute.

As you can see from the article above, just because quite a few of these exist doesn't mean he hasn't filed for and received a patent on his cutting board. I think you have a case, but if he does have a patent (you can look it up at the USPTO his name or company's name - or just ask him for the patent number and then you can look it up) it could cost you quite a bit in defense - money that you may not be able to get back.

Such is the way with our government and civil legalities today.

It is also possible that he is mistaken about his patent. Just some personal experience in the matter: We opened a retail store. That retail store used a city name and two other common words. We received a cease and desist letter from someone that used the city name and one of the other common words in their name. We had related businesses - sort of. The laws require you to have something unique. Using the city, state, direction or region in your name just about immediately wipes out your case to defend your name unless someone is directly ripping you off. In the end, we had already changed our name; so, it didn't matter. But, we would have won the case in 5 minutes in court according to a judge friend.

If he has a patent, and you don't think you're violating it, talk to an attorney. If you think it is worth it.


----------



## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

I like that all walnut board…pretty sweet. I think I might have to steal all the designs I have seen on here…and yes they are for sale not my own personal use. He can sue me next….this guy is high. C'mon you cant have a patent on something so vague as a rectangular slab of wood or a wood species. Hes poker facing you hoping you flinch. I cant believe he is taking it this far…I bet his next move is he has a friend thats a lawyer and his lawyer friend will send you an official cease and desist notice on his firms letterhead, hoping that will really shake you up, when in reality they have no intent on suing you…how could they ever win that lawsuit? 
"your honor, you will notice that both boards are rectangular in shape, made from walnut and are the same thickness, and my client owns all rights to rectangles, walnut and thick wood things that you cut on"


----------



## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Closetguy, your response to him was cordial and reasonable. If he responded in a negative way, he is obviously a nut case. Follow Jim's advice, and tell him your attorney asked for his patent number.


----------



## NY_Rocking_Chairs (Jul 20, 2008)

Or even more fun, post his e-mail here and let there be an LJ flaming where everyone e-mails him claiming intellectual property infringement. His e-mail will be so full. Ok, I thought I had outgrew these flamings back in college, but evidently not.

I just built a WW design cutting board for my wife's bday, I better not let it hit the internet…

I do like the walnut board. Walnut is one of my favorite woods. So many features can be found in just one board.

-Rich


----------



## kevmann64 (May 15, 2009)

Someone may have already said this, but there really can't be a patent issue since patents deal with new technology. The only thing there could possibly be is a copyright issue, which is used for artistic works. I wouldn't ignore him, though - I think a firm response is in order. Also, I'm a little dubious about his "Food Network" claims; I watch it regularly, and they tend to use John Boos boards almost exclusively. Maybe he sent them some free samples to get some exposure (which, I have to admit, is not a bad marketing tactic).

Forge ahead, and keep making those beautiful boards - I think yours look better anyway!


----------



## BlankMan (Mar 21, 2009)

O W

To Whom It may Concern:

This is to put you on notice that you are infringing on my design. I respectively request that you cease and desist from copying my design, failure to do so could result in litigation. I have included a picture of said infringement. At issue is this cutting board. It was made out of wood, you obviously copied that. It has rounded edges, you obviously copied that also. This particular board was made in 1966 and there is documentation to support that.

I hope we can resolve this amicably and I expect you to destroy all items you have produced that mimic this design.

Respectively,


----------



## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

You would loose that case..the knife marks are different..

Kev..that is a good observation, my wife watches Food Network constantly, and all I ever see are very large, very thick all maple John Boos cutting boards.


----------



## SPMaximus (Mar 2, 2009)

"Anyway, I'm not going to post his reply, but here is my first response to him."

Are you sure? I believe we could all use a laugh =(


----------



## danhux (Feb 28, 2009)

This kinda stuff is what causes some people not to post their work. I've made a great little cell phone cradle out of guess, "walnut and maple".. I've never seen one on here LJ's or in a store. I'm sure just as soon as I posted a picture, it will be a problem. I'm shocked some of the box's your guys make haven't caused these kinds of problems. Life is just to short to have to put up with this kinda crap..Closetguy,,,tell the dude to blow it out his/her (


----------



## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Dan, are you afraid of threat of lawsuit or someone copying your idea? I agree, this kind of crap by leaches sucks!!

Closetguy, even if they start a lawsuit, you can ignore it unless they are asking for damages, IMO, but I'm not an atty (thank God), nor am I giving legal advice. Without a patent # or copyright, there is no basis, just BS. Most people are too timid to stand up for their rights and will just give in.

As a Topamaxsurvivor, I did have grounds for the real deal, but I can't afford justice. It comes with a $500,000 minimum price tag.


----------



## saddlesore (Oct 17, 2007)

After all it IS made from wood! So there!


----------

