# Which Handplane to buy?



## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

I know my tag line currently says "*...and never buy a hand plane*", but I'm entertaining the thought (again). Shame on me. 

*I'm particularly a power tool guy*. I do use hand tools when I see the need for them, its just not that often. I even took up the task of teaching hand-cut dovetails to make myself learn the techniques. It worked. Not that I'm any better than anyone else yet, but at least I've foiled the myth that it is beyond a power-tool guys skill level. I even enjoy cutting them.

*My interest* in this purchase came about in watching an interview with Rob Cosman at the 2011 Woodcraft Trade Show. Aparently Rob is on the bandwagon of pushing WoodRiver planes since he no longer represents Lie Nielsen. His sales pitch worked.

*I typically use a ROS *for surface finishing on a project(mostly small boxes and other rectangular things), and for chamfering edges(both long grain and cross grain). About 5 months ago I added some edge molding on a piece and was handed a low angle block plane to smooth it with the surface. I ended up buying that plane.

*The majority of my handplane usage *is with roughing. Taking down corners of a twisted board so it will lie flat before running it through a jointer or planer(the electric ones). I havn't really used hand-planes for finish work other than maybe chamfering edges.

If you've gotten this far without clicking away, thank you. All this to give you an idea of my background and what I expect from this purchase. *I'm looking for something that I can*:


use to put a prepped finish on a piece 
chamfer both long grain, and cross grain on boxes and such 
clean up a board edge coming off the TS (Jointing a board per se) 
use on a shooting board if the need presented itself(or is that a shouting board?)

I suppose my Low Angle block plane would really be the better weapon for the chamfering(#2).

*I'm looking at the WoodRiver #6 Bench Hand Plane*, V3(WC Item #150876). 








Am I fooling myself in thinking this would fit my needs, uh, I mean wants? I bought a WoodRiver plane(Jack #5 as I recall) a couple of years ago and ended up returning it because of the lousy mechanism for advancing the blade. I'll be expecting this one to work as I see in the video, otherwise it will be going back too. Am I expecting too much from a WoodRiver plane?

I am confident this will be my only plane purchase in the next 10 years. I could care less about the Bubinga handle. I don't even know what blade angle it has. Is this #6 the right one for me? Do tell. Unless you give me good reason not to, I expect to purchase it on Thursday(in 2 days). Thank you in advance for any and all input.

FWIW, SWMBO has approved this as an early Christmas present.


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## cellophane (Jul 14, 2011)

What's your budget? I'd look at the LN low angle or Veritas low angle jack plane before the WoodRiver. The low angle will be good for endgrain and works well on weird grains and regular grains. The size is a good all-purpose plane and since you have the low-angle block the smaller pieces that the large plane won't work on are covered. If it is your only plane purchase in the next decade you might as well spend the money and get a great one.

I'd also scope out eBay and pick up a #5 Stanley (or #14 Millers Falls) for general work - the Millers Falls was $12 after shipping. I like the Millers Falls more than the Stanley for whatever that's worth. They tend to cost less too. An eBay plane would most likely require tuning but I usually find that to be a fairly enjoyable process.

If you really want to go hog-wild there are a number of modern builders who make some REALLY nice planes or you can look for a Spiers, Mathieson, or Norris but they can quickly hit the 4-digit mark.


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

cellophane, I should have mentioned that, sorry. I have an opportunity to get this for less than $100. The LN is nice, but I can't justify the cost. $100 is pushing it as it is. After watching Cosman do a very nice demo on hand plane setup, I asked what he recommended to get started. He listed about 6-7 planes, about $1700 worth. He obviously had no interest in finding out who his audience was.

I do mostly smaller boxes but I do some larger work too. I'm wondering also if these longer planes are just too big for some of my smaller work. I'll try the #6 on endgrain before I decide.

I'll look up the Millers Falls. Thanks for the tip.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

I'd buy a vintage Stanley #5 and if you're not interested in toiling heavily with sharpening, buy a hock replacement set. You should come in under $100 and have an excellent user. You could also send the blade to a galoot around here and have them sharpen it for you for a minimal fee. Others may disagree, but I don't think the Woodrivers are worth $100 on their best day. I'd say spend $30 on a vintage stanley or a few hundred on a new LV. The worst thing you could do is spend $100 on a lousy plane and be put off of them forever. That's a tragedy


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## cellophane (Jul 14, 2011)

Stanley made (makes?) a low-angle jack plane. Stanley #62

I've seen LN planes on eBay but never that low. Using a 14" plane on a box works but you need a good 6" of surface or it gets hard to keep the plane steady and even. Not that it can't be done but its harder.

What about a cabinet scraper? You can buy a very nice one for about $10. A burnisher will run $25-$30 for a nice one. They are great for finishing and smoothing and a whole lot faster than sanding.

For boxes (how big are they?) I would look at a scraper or smaller plane. LN & Veritas make smaller bevel-up smoothers but they are over $100.

If all you really are using it for is rough work the #5 Stanley or equivalent MF would be more than enough I'd think. I use my 5 for shooting, flattening, jointing etc. I however am a scrub and still new to wood working and am not necessarily good at those tasks  And what Bertha said.


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## wingate_52 (May 14, 2011)

Try a LA62 Quangsheng. I do not know if wood river do a version. I have a new one in the UK and it is a great all round plane. If I ws starting again with planes, I would go for the QS-wood River planes. The Cosman blade is terrific, I also like and use Smoothcut laminated blades with QS chipbreakers in my Stanleys and Records.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

if your stuck on the #6 size….

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stanley-Bedrock-606-Vintage-Woodworking-Hand-Plane-/140609660195?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20bcfd2523


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I've got a few extra. I'll sell anyone of "these #5 except the A5. Make me an offer.

A couple of stanley's

or the millers falls

or the shelton #14


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

LOL, we'll have to start calling it DonBay. Pretty soon, he'll add a searchable database


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I know how to do that! But that's to much like WORK Al !


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

I have used a #4C for years. Added a #3 for kicks ($15.00 at an antique shop), and just bought a #7 for jointing some big timbers. Have a low angle as well for the small stuff.
Plane use is a skill determined by the user. You can use what ya have for a multitude of jobs. Sure, you can buy a zillion specialty planes if you have the bucks and the desire.
My advice FWIW is to learn to use what you have, and learn to sharpen well.
Bill


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

I have a woodriver #5, it was a recent gift. After fiddling around with it(it is my first,only plane) I found it makes shavings like you guys on tv and internet do. I am looking to get other planes, like a small block and a rabbit plane. These things are expensive in my opinion, and being a plane newbie,and a power tool lover maybe I am missing something. If the blade is sharp, the sole is flat, the ergos are ok, and its tuned properly it will work as intended, no? where the heck is the value/benefit to these expensive/or old school planes. From an outsiders perspective, it seems like some plane elitism is taking place. But I am an uninformed powertool guy. I have read many positives about woodriver planes, and like the one I have. Heck I am still trying to understand the difference between the stanley block plane at lowes for$30 vs the one at woodcraft for $60. And $200 for a shoulder plane? Really? Does it do something i am missing. Like clean house? Maybe the powertool guy will never really "get it".


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## cellophane (Jul 14, 2011)

Shane:
Build quality is one of the biggest issues. The quality of the recent Stanley planes is questionable at best most of the time. Some of their newer planes are correcting this but the general rule of thumb is anything post 1960 or so isn't worth much in terms of quality. The Lie-Nielsen planes are superbly crafted and have a high quality iron on them. They are also made in the US - so labor costs are higher. For the average user a $20 flea market 1930 Stanley will clean up and work just as well as a $200 LN plane but for 1/10 the price. The Lowes block plane is a regular plane, the $60 plane is a low-angle and has an adjustable throat and lateral adjustment. All those little bits add up in terms of production costs. The LN et al. planes also last a lot longer. There are a lot of stamped planes that have cracks in the sole that make them unusable. If you really want to do a side-by-side take a Buck Bro's jack plane (HD / Lowes) and compare it with your Woodriver, a LN or an older stanley. There is absolutely no comparison. My first jack plane was a BB and I haven't touched other than to wonder how it got so much rust on it it since I got my Stanley.

The shoulder planes I haven't figured out… I want one but tend to choke at the price. Even old planes on eBay cost that… I would guess it has to do with the extra amount of metal and milling that goes into one but I really don't know. As I mentioned - there are some 'arty' planes that people make now but they have things like dovetailed soles in contrasting metals, crazy infill woods and tolerances down to 0.0001". I can see why they cost alot.

Personally I like taking an old rust magnet and cleaning them up so I don't mind buying a used plane. If I had the cash I would definately own some LN planes however.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^Cellophanes comments are quite accurate, in my opinion. If you're in the market for a shoulder plane, Cello, look no further than LN. If you can stand the stylings, the Veritas is nice, too. I've got the Clifton and if I had it to do over again, I'd go spanking new LN even though I'm a vintage guy. Forget even the early Stanleys, if you ask me. Like you've already said, forget anything recent Stanley. Aside from the infills, they're all copies of the old Preston, which I obviously would prefer; but you're right, shoulder planes can get absurdly priced. Just ask fellow LJ JusFine, he collects the good ones


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## pierce85 (May 21, 2011)

Don, do you have a #6 you'd be interested in selling?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

sure, I've got several. 2 are shown on that same page.


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

Well, as a power tool guy, I tend to side with ShaneA. Seems there is a lot plane elitism taking place. Don't get me wrong, I see nothing wrong with others collecting planes just for restoration and display, its just not for me. I'm looking for a tool to use.

I hear your "...questionable quality" and "...superbly crafted" comments, but it tells me nothing. What, specifically makes one plane so much more superb than another? Does having a rubber coated nylon tote make one plane worse than another? I wouldn't be against it but I'm sure Al wouldn't even touch it based on general priciples. LOL 

And how about the soles? I realize they have to be flat, but how flat do they need to be? If you answer this, then give me a number I can compare to, not just the sandpaper method.

The one plane I bought had a lousy mechanism for advancing the blade. It was not smooth. Others I've looked at had inferior mechanics for setting the blade parallel. It stuck in some places. Others I've seen wouldn't cut cold butter.

So what is wrong with all these bahahahahaddd planes you speak of? Specifically, what should I be looking out for? Can't I just pour honey on a bad one and turn it into a saaweeeeet plane?


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## Dcase (Jul 7, 2010)

New or used I would go with a #5. A #6 is probably a little big for smaller boxes and such.

Don, Just saw you have a Shelton #14… I have the same plane, it was actually the very first plane I ever restored. I spent a lot of time learning how to hand plane with that one…


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Rance, you've got some fair points there. If you're not up for a whole lot of fussing and don't want to pay the premium for the LN, the WR might be a fair choice. I don't fuss too much about flattening soles. I'll pass them a few times over 220 grit paper (with the blade in but backed out) and take a look at the shiny spots. If it's continous in front of the mouth and there are some decent touch-downs on the front and back, I consider it flat enough. That may horrify some plane guys here, but it is what it is.

I'm sure you can tune up an inexpensive WR plane to perform perfectly fine. I'm just always so worried that someone will be turned off of planes because of a bad initial experience. My first plane was a late model Stanley that's now in the trash after probably 100 hours of fiddling. I don't know why I didn't give up but I'm glad I didn't.

You ask specifically what to look out for. The vintage planes tend to be heavy clean castings; the newer planes are light and roughly cast. Many newer parts are even stamped steel (gross!). Newer blades are thin and composed of poor quality metal as a rule. Surfacess tend not to mate well and they're often twisted. Depth mechanisms don't engage securely and they're hard to advance once properly tightened.

None of these problems are present in a well tuned vintage stanley or a brand new LN.

If the chipbreaker mates the iron well, the castings are heavy and smooth, the parts fit together solidly, the frog addresses the mouth squarely, and everything's relatively flat, you've got yourself a workable plane; irrespective of the brand, age, or price.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

The plane needs to be suited to the task your trying to perform. So, I get the ball going. (I am sure others will have an opinion)


use to put a prepped finish on a piece

This is the relm of a smoothing plane. Normally #4 or #4 1/2. This plane takes a shaving of 1-2 thousandths of an inch. This plane should be flat to a few thousanths of an inch. You want something that is well machined and can take a fine adjustment. This is a good place to invest money. You can go bigger or smaller depending on your preferences (e.g. 5 1/2 or 3) Some people prefer larger or smaller planes based on their size and the size of their hands.


chamfer both long grain, and cross grain on boxes and such

Block plane. Adjustable mouth low angle block plane. Older Stanly 60 1/2 or 65. Lie-Nielson 60 1/2 is a no miss plane and a joy to use. Veritas makes nice block planes. Most important factor beyond picking a quality plane is how it feels in your hand. My favorite is Stanley #65 (even over my LN)


clean up a board edge coming off the TS (Jointing a board per se)

See smothing plane above…


use on a shooting board if the need presented itself(or is that a shouting board?)

Old Stanley 5 1/2 (WW2 or Earlier) or Low Angle Jack Plane. Jack plane is wonderful on end grain.

All of the above can be done with an old #5 jack plane and a spare blade if needed. One blade can be sharpened for rough work and one for doing fine work…

Same can be said for a low angle jack plane but they are expensive from a vintage or new perspective. Wingate's suggestion of a LA62 Quangsheng would probably be the most inexpensive if you can find a source for them in the US. Next lowest in price would be Veritas, then Lie-Nielson. Old vintage 62s are pretty steep if they are complete and undamaged.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

How about a low angle Stanley block as an appetizer? This is a great plane to familiarize yourself with what they can do. The sharpening is small scale and they're pretty inexpensive. One your disease blossoms into something ugly (and your shop walls look like Dan's), you'll still have you low angle block to trim cross grain


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

*From ShaneA*

If the blade is sharp, the sole is flat, the ergos are ok, and its tuned properly it will work as intended, no? where the heck is the value/benefit to these expensive/or old school planes. From an outsiders perspective, it seems like some plane elitism is taking place.

*Reply*
I think the issues with planes from early WoodRivers to Wards, newer (Lowe's) Stanley blocks and 'premium' Stanley SW re-issues centers around the ability of these tools to align and adjust properly and work as intended. Like rance said, "...one plane … had a lousy mechanism for advancing the blade. It was not smooth. Others I've looked at had inferior mechanics for setting the blade parallel. It stuck in some places." Folks like Don and Wayne have used and/or restored tons of these tools and have an idea what works over time. There's alot of detail to know before recognizing, for example, a frog that will hold a setting and not chatter yet be adjustable for the finest of settings. (insert something here about a blind squirrel if you'd like, because Yes pretty much any plane can make a pretty shaving, but can it keep doing it for the whole project without having to stop and fettle with the tool?) Would you accept a circular saw that couldn't hold a depth setting, or a table saw fence that moves or wasn't dead nuts parallel with the blade? Now, how much of a premium do you put on such "superbly crafted" tools?

In other words, I have druthers on power tools too, and could (I guess) be accused of elitism if the things I value are delivered, time and again, from a higher priced cabinet saw over a benchtop Black and Decker… "Hey, the blade goes 'round and 'round and my wood gets cut, what's the deal?"

The point is, and yes there's a point, go ahead and buy WoodRiver if that's what you want. The advise about that being a bit on the large side is valid, I think, based on the size of work you do. I think you could do most of it with a quality (there's that word, sorry) #4; the only shortcoming there would be endgrain work. But you'll find hand planes, unless incredibly sharp and used in a shooting board, won't deliver consistently. There's more to it than just doing it; a Woodworker II or better blade on my RAS does better endgrain work than any plane I have, and I have more than a few. Just not a skill I need to excel at just yet.

Hope this helps, glad you asked the question. Good luck!


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

A plane should feel good in your hand. I've restored Bedrocks, Stanleys, sheltons, Craftman, Millers Falls, and many I bought just because I'd never heard of them. You can usually tell a good plane once you have it in your hand. Some of the Stanley's (like the defiance, and newer painted models) can make decent planes, it just takes a lot more work.

To answer the question, "how flat does the sole need to be?", well that depends. A smoother need to be flatter than a jack, but it needs to be flat enough to work well. I don't have numbers, I just know if the sandpaper hits everywhere, its flat enough for anything I decide to do.

One of the best #4s I own I put together with parts . Why is it better? I'm not sure, I just find myself grabbing for it. Its like the rifle that just settles in without thought, it just works.

I'm with Smitty, I've never tuned a Woodriver. I will when I find one for $10 (the average price of the Stanleys I buy) but in the mean time if that's what works for you, that means more vintage Stanleys for me.

Call me a collector, call me a user, call me a smuck, it doesn't matter, I enjoy the hell out of finding, buying, restoring and using these things. Its suppose to be fun, so do what makes it fun.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

I agree it is very satisfying to find a diamond in the rough and restore it to use.


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Thanks for the info. So it looks like if I want a well engineered, repeatable, adjustable plane on a limited budget (for smothing without a motor that is) I am probably reduced to looking for vintage stanley or similar. If I want a shoulder plane, I guess its simply just time to invest some money from what could have been my next motorized tool budget.
So I guess the plane buyers next question becomes, where does a guy go to find one of these? I dont see myself as the garage sale/flea market type. Plus I would not know vintage or quality, if it bit me. Then I would not know value if I saw it. I am big on value, or a cheapskate, if you will.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Can't believe he said it, but Don has a few that he's willing to sell. And I'd trust him. So maybe, between us JLers, there's a solution to this problem at hand!

DISCLAIMER: I have no financial stake in Don W Planeworks


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## cellophane (Jul 14, 2011)

I hear your "…questionable quality" and "…superbly crafted" comments, but it tells me nothing. What, specifically makes one plane so much more superb than another? Does having a rubber coated nylon tote make one plane worse than another? I wouldn't be against it but I'm sure Al wouldn't even touch it based on general priciples. LOL 

I just bought a new Stanley low-angle at Woodcraft. I was actually really suprised at how rough the milling on it was. The finish out of the box was maybe an 80 grit sand and the sole was far from flat. It took me several hours to get the sole close enough (hersey) and it is still rough in some places, but I've got contact at the toe and shoe. The parts weren't bad but there is some slop in them that I don't think should be there. The iron wasn't bad but it did take me a while to grind it where I want it.

I probably spent as much time tuning up the new out of the box plane as I did either the 40 year old Stanley / MF planes I bought on ebay. That just seems silly to me. I'm ok honing the blade on a new plane but I shouldn't have to lap it for two hours just to get an even contact at each end. If I could give you real numbers I would - but it was a noticable amount of work. Otherwise it's like Smitty mentioned about the TS. You can fix something that is poorly made and probably get by but the odds are good it will turn you completely away from a tool category that is otherwise a lot of fun. I admittedly will sit in the shop for hours if I'm bored and just see how fine of a shaving or how smooth I can get my planes to work. Like I said though - i'm a scrub and pretty new but there is something wonderful about a well tuned plane. On the flip side - you will want to ram your head through the wall with a cheap on.

There are some planes by Millers Falls that have plastic totes & handles but they tend to sell for 10 times as much as a regular user plane (look for the Buck Rogers planes and the permaloid planes.)

I personally haven't owned or used a WR plane so I don't have much input on them but I would rather buy a used vintage plane and clean it up than a WR based on what I've read about them. Will it work for you and meet your budget? Yes. Will it be the wonderful joyous thing that a LN plane would be? Probably not. If its your only plane though you may not need or want the LN quality.

edit - with the stanley / MF / LN planes you can also resell it if you don't like it. I have no clue what the resale value of a WR plane is.

/plane dork


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

I think the point your making cellophane is similar to what we are trying to say relate to the new planes from most manufactures outside of premium plane makers other than Veritas, Lie-Nielson, etc.

If your going to get one and rework it, get an old one and spend the same amount of time or less time restoring it. You will end up with a better plane. Also, one that will appreciate more in value than a current plane.

As far as getting them if you do not want to go the antique store, flea market or ebay route. There are a number of used tool vendors. I have some links to old tool vendor sites in my blog. You have to scroll down a bit.

http://lumberjocks.com/WayneC/blog/734


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I have some sights listed as well. http://lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/24092 where you can buy them.


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

Thanks guys. I think I've prodded some very useful responses. I really appreciate the input you all have given.

I realize that the #6 is pretty big for some of my smaller work. However, I could still use it on a shooting board or for jointing and (I assume)smoothing some larger boards. I'll tell ya, it would now be a hard decision to go with the WR if I have to tweek it as much as buying a used $20 fixer-upper. I'm not against doing some tweeking, but a tool should be expected to sorta work right out of the box.

I think I'll end up taking the #6 out for a spin on Thursday just to get a feel for how it cuts, fit & finish, and to see if it is road worthy without a lot of fettling. But whether I buy that one or not, it sounds like I could still make use of a #5 or maybe a #4 1/2 smoother(am I using the correct terminology?). My main problem with that would be I would want to handle the thing before a purchase. That sorts leaves out the internet and mail order. I'm sure there are some local planes that can be had.

Thanks to ALL for the feedback. It has been very very helpful. Oh, and no, I'm NOT moving over to the Dark Side.


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## Tootles (Jul 21, 2011)

I have a stanley planes - No. 4 and No. 6. I think No. 6 is too big for what you want, and probably a No. 4 is too small. A No. 5 is probably the best compromise for versatility.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

I gan't believe you have a hand plane and are in the market for another. Tell me it isn't so. Now i'll be the only power tool purist left. You have broken my heart.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

You will eventually come to the dark side gfadvm…


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

I've got a couple of card scrapers. Am I doomed?


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

First inch of the slippery slope…


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

*Don't you believe it, not even for a second.* That block plane I told you I bought, I have never used the one I brought home. I finished up that project using the demo model. I bought it for the day I have my home shop in usable condition. Surprisingly, I do a lot of my work in other folk's workshops and in the classroom.

Now that I think of it, I can't imagine myself ever using a shooting board. Why would I? Aren't those for mostly squaring up endgrain? That's table saw work.

Resist the urge gfadvm. I know you can.


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## cellophane (Jul 14, 2011)

My main problem with that would be I would want to handle the thing before a purchase. That sorts leaves out the internet and mail order. I'm sure there are some local planes that can be had.

Between Richmond, DC and Baltimore I'd wager there is someone near you with a few planes that you can test drive .  I do understand where you're coming from though. Just keep in mind - at least with a vintage you can always resell it for what you paid, or very close to it.

If you really take a liking to planes - David Charlesworth has some DVD's that discuss planes in a lot of detail - from tuning to using. I think he is insane - he takes his soles to a mirror finish. The Handplane Book is also a really good read.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Charlesworth's videos are great. Also he has a good one for using a plane in a shooting board. He is a 5 1/2 guy. 

There are quite a few other handplane videos out. Chris Schwarz has 3-4 of them and Rob Cosman has a bunch. I prefer videos as a way to learn this type of tool use. You can visualize what they are telling you and you can hear the planes working.


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## cellophane (Jul 14, 2011)

I'll have to check out the other videos. My only complaint with the Charlesworth videos is his presentation tends to be a little… dry.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Watch Schwarz first. David will then look like Monty Python…


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## 8iowa (Feb 7, 2008)

Chris Schwarz, the former editor of "Popular Woodworking", is arguebly the modern guru of hand planes. His book "Hand plane Essentials" is well worth purchasing.

That being said, I also use hand planes to remove twist from rough sawn boards before running them thru my planer. I get very good use out of my #5 Clifton and also frequently use it to create a little bit of "spring" in the center of long power jointed boards prior to gluing.

I have an Anant #7 that required some work before performing satisfactorily. It can do a great job of straightening the rough sawn edge of boards to create a clean reference edge to go along the fence of your table saw.

I'm finding that hand planes can be very useful along power tools and in many cases will save time.


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Following along. This a meaningful thread with excellent points. The only thing that I would add is that I now have a vintage Stanleys, several veritas BU planes, and a wood river # 4. I am pleased with WR performance and quality. It does have to be tuned unlike the veritas. Yet, it has thicker castings, thicker iron, and no rust like most vintage Stanleys. What I am really disappointed in is the WR tote. It is just TOO small. It works like a champ though.

This is the opinion of a beginner. That said - I am actively shopping for vintage.


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

@8iowa - Do you dedicate that plane you use for "roughing work" for that task or can it then quickly return to use as a smoother in preparation for a reeeeaaaal nice final finish? For example, I'd never use the same plane for smoothing a finish for a nice box and then turn around and use it to adjust an old door that started rubbing. Am I odd in this way?

I ain't gonna buy no plane book. That would definitely put me in The Dark Side category. I just don't have time or the inclination to go down that slippery slope.

>"I don't even know what a shooting board is.
That is funny gfadvm. [Now go figure out how I back-tracked this from 7 hours into the future.  ]


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I love the wood body planes. I was pretty surprised how well they worked.

Of course, I like the vintage stanleys too. Bedrocks are the best. There Al, I said it.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Rance - I'm WAY behind you in handplanes. I don't even know what a shooting board is. I thought it had to do with a place to stand when you hunt to keep your feet dry.


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

Rance, did you get a chance to speak with Rob?

He spent 35 - 40 minutes with me on the phone discussing planes one afternoon. He helped design or had a lot of input in the Woodriver line you are looking at, and would give you the pros and cons of their line.

He also sells a great line of sharpening stones and his DVDs are very good.

I didn't read all the replies, so hope I am not duplicating a response.

All the Best!


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

rance, your not looking at this right. I've spent as much time on the dark side as anybody. (Wayne keeps calling me a collector, I think he's jealous of my stalking tactics) But….here is my latest acquisition.



















Its doesn't have to be an either / or situation. I'm as much of a powertool guy as anybody. Imbrace the "tools" from Chainsaws to whatever strikes your fancy.

And gfadvm, keeping your feet dry when hunting is a paramount endeavor, especially here in the north east in December. A shooting board would be at the range. In the woods, its called a "hunting board".


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## cellophane (Jul 14, 2011)

re: Wood / Transitional Planes

What makers are you guys going with for your wood planes? The Gordons are out of budget right now so I'm pretty much limited to what I can scrounge off of eBay or yard sales. I have a Winchester (Sargent) and I've found it iffy at best - although I don't think it is quite as finely adjusted as it could be. I still reach for the #5 before the wood plane. I have used a Gordon and it was a great plane - although learning to adjust the blade with a hammer is tricky.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^Cello, you could always start with a Stanley transitional for a hybrid with good adjusting capabilities. Ohio tools seems to be one of my favorite woodbodies, but I' don't own too many. Auburn maybe is another good one. You should just make your own if you've got the time


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

gfadvm, Remember that having a hand plane is different than buying one. And buying one is different that actually using one.

I looked at what they had on display for demo last night. A No. 5. Both blade adj. mechanisms worked like what I thought they should. There was a piece of mahogany there for practicing on. I tried it with the 5. I could get very thin shavings but was not impressed with the finish it left. Parts of the board were smooth, but not all. I tried skewing the plane, but it did not help. I'm guessing the blade was not sufficiently sharpened. I just walked away. I'll go back when 'the plane guy' is in the shop and bend his ear about them, and maybe take a new #6 out of the box to try also.

All this talk of wood planes… I actually built one a few months back in one of woodbutcher3 's classes. Mine looked more like one of the old Indy torpedo-looking race cars when I finished. I was going for functionality rather than looks. It sits in the display case at the store as an example for his class. One of these days I think I'll have spoke wheels and a number lasered on the sides. I'm just that kind of a guy. I have no respect for form.

Maybe I'll just investigate the wooden plane direction first. I have to admit, I like the idea of building some tools more than actually using them. I built a prototype Shaving Horse(Boggs style) a few weeks ago in preparation for a class I'll be teaching in January "Build A Shaving Horse". I have no use for one, but I really like the Boggs design and like the building challenge.

I actually have 3-4 small wood planes a good friend of mine gave me. They have a contrasting box joint looking thing going on along the bottom edge. I should gloat them on here. They are too small for smoothing larger boards but could be used for some smaller stuff.

Anji, When I think of a jack plane, I think of a taller plane. I can't imagine that being made of wood. I'll have to look that up, just for perspective.

Randy, I sat in on Rob's hand plane class about 2 years ago, just after he ended is relationship with LN. I suspected that he had something to do with the V3 design of the new WR planes. It seems kinda odd to see him promoting Wood Rivers. That's what got me to thinking about them. Just maybe, they have done something to step up their game. He'll be back at the store in Dec. I'd like to hear what he has to say about the V3 redesign compared to what he said 2 years ago.

Don, that's the same jointer we use in class. It gets the job done, not the best, but sufficient. No doubt, it could be tweaked to do better. That looks like a nice TS too. I'll never leave my power tools, it just makes it too easy. Then I get to concentrate more on the design rather than having to deal with the idiosyncrasies of the tools, my skills, and the woodgrain.

When it is all said and done, I just might be better off sticking with my ROS. But I at least wanted to try to see what I might be missing(besides my mind).


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

rance, I'll make a deal with you. I've got this nice Stanley #4 (one of about 8 or 10) that I've restored and tuned.










PM me your address and i'll mail it to you. Here is the shavings it make on a piece of white oak.










Here is the shavings on a piece of popular









What ever your smoothing, when your finished with the plane, hit it with some 220 grit in your ROS, and your done.

When you done with the plane(or a few weeks have gone by), put it in the box and ship it back.

I think your trying to do to much with a single plane. You really need a 4 or 4 1/2 for smoothing, A 5 or 6 for shooting and leveling, and a 6,7 or 8 for jointing.

Note this number 4 isn't a bad plane, but by no means one of the best. I'm betting its better than (although only slightly) than the woodriver. I'm going on what I've heard and read, I've never had a woodriver in my hand, but I'll bet a weeks paycheck its at least as good. If you wanted a better one, I can fix you up, but read the first part of this .


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## pmayer (Jan 3, 2010)

I would suggest a good quality #4. Extremely versatile plane. I also like Bertha's suggestion to consider a low angle block plane as an appetizer. That is probably the most frequently used tool in my shop, and I also consider myself a power tool guy. I have 2 blocks, and #2 through #6, and 80% of the time it is block & #4 for me.

Do yourself a favor and get a really high quality one. You will be hooked. Hand planing is fun and efficient once you get the hang of it.


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## JeremyPringle (Aug 17, 2011)

Rance. I agree with the guys that are saying the 6 is too big. I would also suggest staying away from the used world, the amount of time and energy you are going to invest in making it usable can be very frusteratin, especially if this is going to be your first plane. I have seen many people buy the wrong 'first plane', and it ruins their experiance and they write off hand tools.

From what you are describing, I would suggest a low angle smoothing plane or LA jack plane. Make sure it has machined sides so you can use it on the shoothing board as well. (The Vertias LA smoothing was my first plane, and I used it for EVERYTHING, including all that you mentioned in the above). The LA with be a little better with the end grain stuff and also the figured stuff, and I thing they are just a little more versitile as a first plane.


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

I also find the Veritas LA jack with extra blades extremely versatile. It is my go to plane.


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

I think a couple of recent comments really apply *1) *I am trying to get too much out of just one plane, and* 2)* the #6 is really too big for most of my work, maybe too big for all that I currently do.

Don, That is a VERY generous offer. Yours is the second offer of a loaner I've received(one by PM). Where else could a person find folks as willing and generous to help with a problem. And to a total stranger.

I think what I should do is to try what I have locally. Demo planes at the shop, wooden ones that were given to me that I've never used.

One big problem is I still don't even know exactly where I'm going with all this. I seem to change my mind daily. I think my next step is to take a look at the wood body planes I have available to me. The wood body plane is actually an interesting option and has some real merit. That might give me the option to buy one really nice blade and build different bodies to accomodate it. Experimenting with different size planes, adjusting the blade angle, etc.

Thank you for your very generous offer. I'll keep it in mind as I move ahead.


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