# Delta 36-725 Contractor Tablesaw: Follow-Up Review



## keninblaine

tinman: You are very generous in spending a lot of time to provide all this detailed information on this saw. I haven't bought one yet as I don't have an immediate need, and who knows, maybe Lowes will put it on sale sometime. But I am bookmarking your threads so I can find them easily when I do get the saw. But most of all, your full analysis gives me the comfort I needed that this is a good saw for my needs. I don't need one a lot, but when I do, I want precision, safety, and reasonable ease of use.
Thanks very much. You likely saved me over $700 by not buying more saw than I need.


----------



## Ttier315

Terry, your reviews leave me speechless, I feel like I'm sitting in a classroom. With every update I'm learning something new. I've been woodworking off and on for the better part of 40 years and never thought through the concept of the blade barely clearing the work piece but the way you explain it makes perfect sense. I had learned early on to never use more blade than you need, never questioned the wisdom of it, just did it. Yet, your explanation is an epiphany! This update, as your others are, is thorough, concise and full of useful information. Delta (or any tool manufacturer for that matter) would be lucky to have you as their manual writer. You explain things so clearly that even I can understand it. Great job again, we're lucky to have your insight.
Tom T


----------



## TheBoxWhisperer

As usual, an exceptional review/follow up from Tinman. Not only do you take care of us member by addressing and answering individual questions, but the attention to detail is just astounding. Not only do you cover everything, but the way you explain things makes it very clear and easy to "see" Ive said it before and Ill say it again, Ive never read a better review then yours. We are lucky to have you around here.


----------



## ccerav

Terry,

Awesome follow-up. Excellent information. Great tip about the blade height. One more thing to file away in my notes.

I have done my share of larger scale building projects, like framing, decks, kid play sets, sheds, and the like. I've even done a good deal of trim work, i.e. moldings and casings. However, I'm very new at finer woodworking. Up until now, I've never come close to worrying about thousandths of an inch! I find the information you provide to be invaluable. Clear and concise to be sure, and for what its worth, I appreciate the humor.

Thanks for helping me learn. I am truly grateful!

Chris.


----------



## donjohn24

*thetinman* - I wish I could buy one of these saws in the UK, if only because I would have your excellent reviews (Instruction Manuals ?) to aid me in setting it up!


----------



## thetinman

Thanks all for your kind words of support. I hope that I was able to describe the new saw, answer the questions ask of me, and provide some clarity to a bit of confusion about some topics. I have enjoyed my new saw and enjoyed describing my experiences with it.

Don - your comments are uplifting. Thank you. I have spent some time in England many years ago. I must confess that your saws, etc. did seem quite a bit different and awkward than our American ones. However, after getting used to them, I must say that the concepts have stuck with me and I've wondered when we will catch up in some areas. Yes, I think that some things were overdone. But, overall the thinking was more in the direction things should go. We stuborn "offsprings" get there sooner or later.

Thanks again for your kind remarks.

Terry


----------



## wormil

Delta should hire you to rewrite the manual. The first review was exceptional, this one is among the best I've ever read. The "George Washington" tickled my innards. I already have an older Delta but were I shopping for a saw in this price range, I would be done shopping after your review.


----------



## woodcox

I dropped my girls off to grocery shop while I went into the blue store to take a look at the delta. I'd ask my mother to put this display together better. Like going to test drive a new Chevy and seeing the loose lug nuts after the door falls off. Most expensive tool on the floor and it looked like a child assembled it. I will now avoid the ceiling fan isle at this store. I know not to judge quality based on the floor models condition but it does make it hard to get a feel for it like this. I think there is quality, value and some innovation within this saw, it is also set at a good price point. It's mobility is a great feature and works easily. The blade attitude actions felt smooth and easy in all directions, some plastic on the controls but applied well and felt confident that durability wouldn't be an issue. Because of a monkey I have no opinion on the fence system as it was assembled to be useless. Power switch although small seemed good and located conveniently for bump shutdown. I do not remember seeing a tamper proof lockout though. 
I do have a question about the blade guard/pawls-blade height operation. This saw had the blade,guard,knife and throat plate installed. When lowering the blade the pawls bottomed out on the plate stopping it at around 1-3/4"?above the table. Is this normal and is there a minimum blade height/stock thickness for using the pawls or are there more steps to be taken to get the blade below the table? Novice question?
Thank you for such great reviews on this tinman. I'm sure invaluable information for potential saw kickers such as my self.


----------



## thetinman

Woodcox,

Thanks for positing and for getting home safely by avoiding the ceiling fan isles at this store. I try to answer your observations as you stated/asked them.

There is plastic on the saw, primarily as dress-up trim. I read many postings that the side panels are plastic also. This simply is not true. Most of these comments come from "isle lookers" where they didn't go over and actually look like you did. The blade adjusting wheels/handles have plastic over metal. The handles thread into the wheels metal to metal.

The fence system "assembled to be useless" is not the fault of the fence. The fence is the classic Delta 3-point system and, except for screwing on the handle (again metal to metal), comes assembled in the box. What you witnessed must have been the laziest, worst fence rail assembly possible. Do the assemblers still have their jobs? As you may know the fence rail assembly process is the most critical and time-consuming part of the entire assembly process. It sounds like they made it the fastest.

The power switch on my saw is about 2-1/2" X 2-1/2". The box the switch is in is larger of course. This is the same red colored switch on every saw I have seen. This is not small (in my opinion.) and it is, as you observed, located well. I have bumped it off with my hip. There is no child safety lockout on my saw or any that I have seen

I am at a loss to explain the riving knife/anti-kickback pawls/blade guard assembly stopping the blade from retracting. I'm having a hard time even picturing that improper assembly would do this. I never tested a "bottom limit" but I have cut quite a bit of 3/16-inch sheet stock without even thinking about it. The only thing that comes to mind is a caution I included in the assembly process in the original review - take out the Styrofoam motor packing block. I mentioned it because there is nothing in the owner's manual - and I just checked the new one (nothing). There is only a tag on the blade tilt wheel telling you to remove it. You don't notice the tag until the entire saw is assembled and you're ready to fire it up. I only noticed the Styrofoam because I was inspecting, evaluating and taking pictures as I unpacked everything. I didn't think anyone would notice it just following the assembly process. I thought at the time that the original saws were shipped without one and damage occurred, so the block and the tag were added. While I can't be sure, I think the Styrofoam block is still inside the saw you looked at and is stopping the motor from moving through it's entire range. If you happen to get back to that store, pop off the blade guard and anti-kickback pawls. Lower the blade without them. I'm betting the blade stops at the same place because the motor/arbor assembly bottoms out on the Styrofoam block. And, for God's sake, stay away from the ceiling fans!

Thanks for your comments and observations Woodcox. I hope I have addressed everything in an understandable way.

Terry

EDIT ADDITION: I just reread your comments and noticed, besides the blade not going below 1-3/4", you mentioned getting the blade below the table. The pawls and blade guard must be removed to lower the blade below the table. The riving knife is left on. There is no need to remove the riving knife except for things like a Dado cut. Even then, depending on the cut, you may be able to leave it on most of the time by simply and easily moving it to it's non-through cut position (lower).


----------



## thetinman

I am posting this as a more complete description of the riving knife settings as a follow-up to Woodcox's questions.

The riving knife has 2 positions - through cut and non-through cut. The through cut position is the high point and the riving knife is just above the blade. The anti-kickback pawls and blade guard are installed in this position all the time. The non-through cut position has the riving knife lowered below the height of the blade - the anti-kickback pawls and blade guard are removed.

I made the statement in my response to Woodcox that the riving knife can be left on for non-through cut operations most of the time depending on the "cut". The best (most correct) description would be to say that the riving knife could be left on, in the non-through cut position, depending on the blade(s) used. For a narrow dado ¼-inch or less, I don't bother with my dado blades. I just use my normal 10" blade and reset the fence for a second pass. Where I use my stacked dado, the riving knife, in the lower non-through cut position, falls just below the top of my blades. Just below. I use a 6" stacked dado set. If blades less than this are used I am quite confident in saying that you will be removing the riving knife to do the cutting. The point is that for a non-through cut the riving knife MUST be below the top of the blade. I see no harm in removing the riving knife for any such cuts regardless of what blade is used.

The lower non-through cut position is really just a place to store the riving knife. It has no impact/use during these operations. Many people prefer to have a standard "routine" that let's them keep their mind on the job rather than thinking about the tool. No harm - no foul if your routine is to just flip the lever and take off the riving knife for all non-through cut operations without having to shift gears and evaluate whether or not you have to.

I hope this is a more clear and correct description of the riving knife use.

Terry


----------



## Keyser_Soze

Thank you for both of your hyper-informative and entertaining reviews. One of the few times I've slogged through that many words and not been bitter about the experience. You've convinced me that a contractor's saw combined with best practices and a brain will be better for my use than a cabinet saw and a lighter wallet. Delta really ought to cut you in.

For those currently thinking like me, and whose Lowes refuse to take HF coupons, there's currently a 10% off 'online orders' on the front page of sl**kdeal*. Brings the 569 sale price down to 512 before tax. Keep telling us about your experiences/builds/modifications of the saw - you're really the first to be this specific about it, and I know a lot of people were hesitating due to the lack of info out there.


----------



## thetinman

Keyser_Soze…........And All Others

I don't get squat from Delta

But I am happy to accept all donations

Terry


----------



## thetinman

Woodcox….....FOLLOW-UP:BLADE WILL NOT GO DOWN LESS THAN 1 3/4"

I'm out in the shop this morning working on some jigs. I had a thought (sometimes that's dangerous). I raised the blade, reset the riving knife to the lowered position and reattached the anti-kickback pawls. Lowered the blade. The anti-kickback pawls hit the table right about 1 3/4" BINGO!

If you look at the saw again you'll probably see that the riving knife is lower than the top of the blade. The anti-kickback pawls should not be attached in this position. Oh please stay away from the ceiling fans.

Terry


----------



## JohnEinNJ

What a great set of reviews! Thanks for taking the time to edumucate the rest of us. I just bought this saw (retired an ancient Craftsman), and mostly like the fit and finish, but haven't used it much yet. I wonder if you could give your opinion on a couple of points:

1. Because of space constraints, I have to keep the saw in a crowded detached garage and wheel it out into the driveway to work. The driveway's a bit bumpy, so I have to lift the saw up just a bit by the rails and wheel it on the pair of wheels on the opposite end. The swiveling lift wheel just binds up on the driveway if I don't do that. Do you think this might tend to throw the rail alignment out over time? Would it be a good idea to re-set the screws with a little LocTite?

2. I'd much rather have cast iron wings than the stamped steel. Do you think there'd be any problem with the additional weight? During the rail adjustment part of assembly, it seemed to me that I was adjusting the rails to the table, and then adjusting the wings to the rails. So I'm a little concerned that putting on heavy wings might compromise the rail alignment.


----------



## LJackson

This is the first time that I have heard of having the blade higher than just above the thickness of the board. Isn't the blade's travel under the table sufficient time for it to discharge any accumulated dust from within the gullets?

If doing it this way causes the blade to act like it was dull, then perhaps an experiment could be performed. Running the same wood through with the blade low and high, and if there is some way to measure the force needed to push the wood through at a constant speed, then we could prove what you are saying.


----------



## wormil

Blade height while cutting is one of those things woodworkers will endlessly argue about (and have been for decades). Some like to just clear the wood, some raise it to the bottom of the gullet, and some like it well above the wood. Just do whatever makes you happy.


----------



## thetinman

Ljackson,

EDIT: What Rick said politely


----------



## thetinman

JohnEinNJ,

Thanks for your kind words.

To address your questions:

1) If I interpret what is happening correctly, the swivel caster just wants to lock up at whatever angle it is sitting on the bumpy driveway. Given this, you lift up on the left fence guide rails to take some of the weight off.

The guide rails are locked in the table by 4 bolts in the cast iron and 6 in the sheet steel side table (front and back plus 2 in end of table). Steady force lifting will probably not throw off the guide rails. It's possible but not likely with steady (not jerking) force. No I don't think LocTite would be of much help. Those are Nylock nuts on the axle bolts. They're used in the aircraft and marine industry because they stay where you put them I seriously doubt if you have to worry about them coming loose.

If I might suggest, get a piece of the thinnest plywood you can find (3/16?). Lay a strip of that as a runway for the caster on the driveway. The other 2 wheels can straddle it. I actually think a piece of cardboard would work also. You're just trying to smooth out the bumps. Then you only have to lift once to get the swivel caster on the plywood. You don't have to lift to get it off - gravity sucks.

2) I am quite certain that cast iron side tables offer no problem - if you can find them for this saw. This saw is no different than others. The rails and the table become one complete unit when bolted together. Also, you do adjust the rails to the table and then you adjust the side tables to be even with the table - not the rails. The 4 bolts (front/back) holding the rails to the cast iron should be set and the side tables simply leveled flat to the table. A totally frustrating assembly process, isn't it?

You can build your own tables out of wood if you wish. Cover them (Formica, Melamine, etc.), stain or paint them. The saw does not care. If you stain or paint I recommend several coats of hard poly as a final finish.

I'm in the process of "pimping out" my saw with a router table, left side table and some shelves/cabinets below. My wife, Uni, liked the Delta blue. I took in the throat plate and had some paint mixed up. She likes the result - that was the end of that debate. I swear when I'm done I'll have to find a '66 white Cadillac Eldorado convertible with leopard skin upholstery to move it. I'll have to learn to say "dude", "yo", "like" and "whatever" a lot. Is it just me? Has anyone ever heard anything intelligent follow the word "dude"? A rhetorical question only. No need for response.

Good luck

Let us know how you make out.

Terry


----------



## JohnEinNJ

Thanks for your comments and advice. As for adjusting the side tables, there are two potentially conflicting goals:

(a) make the side tables completely level with the cast iron table
(b) use the alignment gauge to ensure that the rails are the correct distance from the wing tops

I went with (b), but after reading your advice I'll make sure to check that (a) is satisfied as well.


----------



## woodcox

Thank you Terry for the updates. I do remember the knife being lower than the blade. Thinking back the first time I looked at this saw was at another location and it was set up the same, pawls we're not allowing blade to drop. I figured it had something to do with setup.

I do believe you are making this tool your own and may it provide you satisfaction with its use. Your pride and attention are admirable. Looking forward to your router install.


----------



## thetinman

JohnEinJJ,

I think you may have done everything correctly. Maybe it's just words. If you locked in your rails using the gauge and they are completely straight then you are golden. If your side tables are out a bit, just use only those bolts/nuts to make them level to the table. The rails aren't going anywhere. Again, maybe we are just tripping over words.


----------



## thetinman

Woodcox and All,

Thanks for your comments and best wishes with my new saw. I certainly am making this saw my own. But, I would like to explain/remind everyone about what I am doing with the reviews and why.

Before I retired from engineering I wrote many product descriptions, reviews and assembly instructions, as all engineers do. I still remember the very first set of assembly instructions I wrote for a line in a manufacturing plant. For each assembly station I instructed the worker to give the product a cursory view and call the supervisor before proceeding if a discrepancy was observed. Boy did I catch a bunch of crap. What does the word cursory mean? What is a discrepancy? Why is this college boy talking down to us?

Now, later in life, I wrote a review of the saw that included some assembly tips. I wrote a follow-up review that included some usage tips. Everything is based on my experience and personal methods. Take it or leave it. I try to say this repeatedly throughout each review. A little less bluntly, but I say it. I try to add a bit of humor so it is not so dry a read. I also note that I receive many questions from those new to woodworking, returning to woodworking and those who have now bought their first tablesaw. When I get questions, like yours, asking why the blade will not retract lower than 1-3/4". I answer the best I can from what I know and suspect as possibilities. I do not jump right up and run out to my shop. But, when I was in my shop I thought of your question (and others) and came up with an answer.

This brings us to the "and others" questions. Sometimes I am responding to many in one answer. You only see the posting. You don't see the e-mails from the very many "newbies" that don't want to ask what they think is a basic stupid question on the post. I understand that they have been the brunt of jokes because they asked basic questions. Fortunately, on this site the fast majority of members are more than happy to welcome someone new. But these people have been burned on the other sites and that left them timid.

I wrote the reviews. I am taking the approach of a retired engineer and own the reviews, including all questions. I bit into this pie and I feel obligated to respond. Again, sometimes when I respond I am responding to more than just the person who posted. In doing so I am trying to respond with language and more complete descriptions than the person who posted may require or even want. I ask all to understand these things. I bit into the pie. I get to eat it my way.


----------



## LJackson

I made a cursory read if your post and found no descrepancy.

Mmmm, pie.


----------



## thetinman

Hey Jackson,

Cute! Now that's the spirit. A little slap and tickle. A bit of humor. I like it.

Terry


----------



## AntarcticTraveler

Terry,

Cut twice, measure once or is it the other way around? Anyway, I was taught OPE (other people's experience) along time ago truly helps to solve the problems of the world. You are in my world. I haven't purchased a saw yet, but am leaning heavily toward this one. Your humor has helped to make a very dull reading enjoyable. Thanks!

Gerry


----------



## thetinman

Questions about Waxing - What should I wax and how often? What should I use?

Wax is the way to keep your saw (and many other tools) slick and protected. I have always used Johnson's Paste Floor wax. Some use car wax. Some use specialty wax. What you select is up to you. I recommend that you not use liquid wax. It is not as hard as paste wax and can transfer to the wood and affect staining/finishing. Wipe on a thin coat (more is not better), wait for it to haze, buff it out. Ideally you would wait several hours or overnight for it to truly harden before you use the saw.

I definitely wax the cast iron table. It prevents rust and makes the table slick, which makes feeding lumber easier and more controllable. I get down into the miter slots, but I don't fuss over the T-slot - I let the miter gauge get that. Waxing also makes brushing off the sawdust so much easier. It just swipes off the table with a bench brush. An old paintbrush is as good as any fancy bench brush. Please don't blow off the dust with compressed air. That just sends everything airborne - that's where you breathe. And, please don't try to huff and puff and blow the sawdust away - you'll get a face (and eyes) full of sawdust out of those miter slots. I also wax the painted side tables for the same reasons. If you do get some rust on the cast iron, use some steel wool to polish it out then wax.

I wax the fence. Again, slick is good. I also wax the top of the fence guide bar (wax right over the tape measure) and the back fence rail. This is where the fence slides. It glides after waxing. When you run into those oh darn-it moments when you need to barely adjust just a tidge you'll be happy for the glide. Overcoming that stick tendency makes the fence jump. Waxing to make it glide makes those tidge adjustments easy. Use the fence scale just as a reference, move the fence only by moving the fence head looking at the scale. You'll thank yourself for waxing. Don't wax the back (inside edge) or front side of the front fence guide. The fence needs to grab/lock here and you don't want slip. As far as the back rail, you don't really have to worry. The metal "hook" grabs just fine along the edge of the angle iron.

I wax the miter gauge bar. It slides more easily in the T-slots and keeps them shinny.

I wax the gray metal sides and black tubular leg assembly. This is the first saw I have bothered to do this on. The powder paint on this saw seems to be a dust magnet. The sawdust just falls to the floor now that I waxed, making cleanup a lot easier.

Finally, I waxed the polished tubes the motor rides on inside the saw. You can't oil it or it'll just gob up with sawdust. Waxing eliminates the friction and will extend the life of the saw.

I re-wax, or rather will re-wax, the motor riser tubes and everything in general about every 3-months. The table, fence and fence guides I'll do as required based on usage - typically about every 2-weeks for me.


----------



## Mambrax

Thanks for that outstanding review and insight. I currently use a BT3100 (which i like a lot) and they is no way i could bring a cabinet saw to the shop (need to go through the kitchen, down the stair…) the Delta sound a great option for me.


----------



## thetinman

AntarcticTraveler,

Thanks…..I think. I live in Florida now. I like the Kent Island thing but the Anarctic is definitely not my world

Mambrax,

I remember basements (Toledo, OH - not in Deltona, FL). We had the washer, dryer, chest freezer and a spare fridge in the basement - all through the kitchen to the basement stairs. Hey, wait a minute - was there a question about this saw?

Terry


----------



## NormG

That is a very complete review. Thank you


----------



## AntarcticTraveler

Terry,

Please forgive 'a very dull reading' comment. Meant only that it was a long read. Humor was a wonderful touch. It made me keep looking and reading for more. Do you think it worth the money to use a Ridge blade on this saw being such a newbie? Any suggestions?

I grew up south of Miami, know all about no basement. Watch those hurricanes. Donna, 1960, was a rough one. Stopped our chickens from laying for almost 2 months. 5 year Coast Guard veteran. Made 2 trips south to Antarctica, Operation Deepfreeze, aptly named, on board an icebreaker.

Keep up the reviews. Looking forward to hearing about your projects using this saw.

Gerry


----------



## thetinman

Antarctic and all,

Heck, I took no offense. My original first review was typical factual engineer and stopped after the packing, etc. I just stated the manual needs to be updated. I decided to take it on myself to do the assembly/corrections/tips stuff and make it a Jessie Stone novel. It was then that I thought that if I was to do this I should do it conversationally with a bit of humor to help the story along. I was stunned by the response and the number of PM's. That's what drove the operating tips in the follow-up making it part 2 of the novel..

No offence taken and humor appreciated.

Regarding a Ridge blade, I don't know. I'm not a blade expert and not familiar with it. Read some of Knotscot's writings. He may have information on it. I will say to use the best blade you can afford to buy - and the one you can afford to have sharpened to get the full value for the longer life. A superb expensive dull blade is not as good as a new good blade for half the price. I live in the boonies and those that sharpen saws are the same guys that sharpen chainsaws. There went the only surpurb blades I still owned. That is the best real-world advice I can give. At least that's my world.

Lastly, a half-dozen or so simple shop tools and tablesaw jigs will be posted in a couple of days. The router table/left side table and cabinets a bit later. Everything, including the router table, fence, left table (everything except the cabinets) is made from one $34 sheet of plywood - with some to spare - and a couple of 2 X 4's. Again, that's my world.

Now go get to your island before it sinks.

Terry


----------



## thetinman

Antarctic,

Here's a link to comparison testing of blades, including the Ridge.

http://www.woodmagazine.com/wood/pdf/WOOD-Saw-Blades-II-The-Retest.pdf


----------



## doitforfun

That's an interesting comment about tightening the arbor nut. I did not know the blade could wobble if overtightened. I never overtighten but for a different reason. I was given some sound advice when I got my saw: "If you strip it, you'll never be able to put another blade on." LOL sage advice indeed that I have always heeded.


----------



## thetinman

Hey DoIt,

Shouldn't honk anything on the saw but the overtight blade is mostly with the new thinner and thinner blades. They flex if you stare at them too long.


----------



## WSUCoug

Blad Alignmnet Issues -

This is my first table saw and I am extremely excited to get it going, but unfortunately I have run into issues with the alignment. After assembly, I tested it to be off by .006 so I came here for advice on how to fix this. Today, I finally had a chance to spend time on figuring out how to fix the alignment so I jumped in and now I am drowning.

I started by using the method that was described earlier by opening the back of the saw and cracking loose the guide tubes and adjusting that way. I spent about 3 hours going back and forth; raising, lowering, loosening, cracking, adjusting the front screws, the back screws and tapping with a piece of wood.

In the end, I went from .006 to .018. The weirdest part is that I was trying to tap the end of the motor that was off, but it just kept moving it further out of alignment. I am quite certain that I wasn't hitting the wrong side.

Needless to say, I am super frustrated and not sure what to do next.


----------



## thetinman

WSUCoug,

OK let's take a breath, calm down, take a swig of beer and have fun with this. Trust me - it's the only shot you have right now. Nowhere does it say in the review to use the guide tubes. Nowhere in the review does it say to tap the motor. Nowhere does it say to raise and lower the motor for 3 hours. So, when you say, "using the method that was described earlier" I believe you mean another post about this saw. I am aware of it. The review is very specific in saying not to do it this way. There is a retaining bolt that seats in a slot on the guide tubes. It's a last ditch safety. If you don't know what you are doing and loosen it you can drop the motor assembly. If you don't loosen it you can't independently adjust only the back or front. You're always trying to move both and don't realize it. The net result is you knock things further out in the direction you are trying to get away from. That's how things get 300% worse. I admit that sometimes the set-screw slips and people say it works. The other times things get much worse.

I'm not scolding or ridiculing you WSU. You're not the first to try the "crazy easy" way. You're just the first to sign up and post it. You are the 13th, a bakers dozen. The others send me PM's and e-mails asking for help. Again, not scolding - glad that a user finally posted so other users can see what not to do unless you really know what you are doing.

Now, drink a beer and send me a PM tomorrow. We'll undo, redo and make things right. There is no value in doing this on the post. I've found that the fixes have similarities but differences depending on what has happened. Filling up the post with back-and-forth will not help anyone. We'll work it through off-line. In your message I want you to be descriptive. Generalities, like I measured it to be such-and-such will not help. I need to know step by step how you did everything or I can't tell you how to undo it. You said it was your first tablesaw. You have no personal info in your profile. I can't gauge who I'm talking to or your abilities without descriptive language. A little background about yourself would help to let me know how much "shorthand" I can use.

Drink a beer and wake up fresh. Your saw isn't broken. We'll get her back in shape.

Terry


----------



## thetinman

Blade Alignment: Doing It and Getting Help

As I've stated, the most "out" I've seen or been told of - by people I know have experience - is 0.006". That's 6-thousandths of an inch. The norm is dead on out to 0.002" or 2 thousandths of an inch. That's one-half the thickness of a dollar bill. My saw was dead on but I have intentionally knocked it out a few times to try different methods and generally learn the saw to better myself and help others.

The trunnions use 4-each flat head torx screws. Because they are recessed people have erroneously identified them as bevel head. This is an important distinction because bevel head screws want to center themselves when tightened making adjustment pointless. Now, the fact that these screws are recessed means they have but little play. But it is enough unless something is really out of whack.

Let's talk really out of whack. So, far none that I have worked through have been really out of whack. So far, the alarms were sounded because of:

- improper measurement methods (mostly changing the point of measurement), 
- Unfamiliarity of how to "feel" a measurement without force (especially those with calipers) Digital reading don't compensate for not knowing how to "feel" a measurement folks.
- trying to use the motor sliding rod support bracket method of alignment improperly (not understanding how the system works)

None of the alarms have been valid so far and we have been able to work through the mistakes successfully.

Let's spend a moment on the motor sliding rod adjustment method - for my last time. Let's think about this. 2 round tubes clamped to the trunnions with the motor assembly bridging them. The front and back top clamps holding these tubes are fixed solid - part of the trunnions - can't move. The tubes can only rotate in the clamps. Picture 2 pipes anchored to the ceiling with a board across them. How the Devil can you move the pipes side to side in an arc? On the surface it sounds like it is impossible to use these to adjust the blade. For all but a very small bit of movement you simply can't. Now add that there is a set-screw in the front clamp. This screw is set in a grove in the rod as a safety to keep the motor from dropping. Since the front and rear trunnion assemblies are identical, there is a threaded hole in the rear clamp but no screw - smooth rod here. There is a bit of movement but to use it you must crack open the set-screw - and I mean just crack it. Frankly, if your saw is out this "bit" just leave it alone. The "bit" might well be a measurement error.

Here's why I don't recommend using this method. In short, anyone who knows machinery can do what they want. People who are not familiar with machinery or measuring tools jump in - in a rush and go for the seemingly easiest. Most of the time they only loosen the rear clamp screws and try to torque/twist the heck out of the assembly. If it doesn't move just use more force. Can you picture the 2 rods twisting? Others loosen both clamps but not the set-screw. Again more force works, right? Two people loosened the set screw and got the very little bit of movement but it wouldn't move anymore. Why, it must be the clamps and that set-screw. Loosen them some more, and more, and drop the motor assembly. No damage and no injuries other than minor bruises. A lot of time was spent talking them through how to put things back together. Ironically, they both said that, while a bad experience, their blades were dead on after we got it back together. Oh, I'll buy that.

Folks, there are many posting on how to align a blade. Look your saw over and understand it before you mess with it. No insult intended but bluntly asked for clarity: if you are new to woodworking or tablesaws, do you really think you can outwork a variance less than half the thickness of a dollar bill? Maybe you should just go with it for a while. It'll still be there when your ready and more "tuned" yourself.

Understand your measuring tools also and how to use them properly.

If you pick a method then follow it exactly. Don't skip marking a tooth on a blade (say a left canted one) and measure to a different tooth and panic because your reading says the blade is out when you measured to a right canted one. (Most common - but right up there with pushing on calipers). Remember that blades have tolerance too. Use the same point. Use the heaviest blade you have. Don't use a thin blade and then not know how to "feel" a measurement. Don't rush. Don't think your way through it and do what you think is logically the same to you and then keep insisting that you did it right. Someone trying to help has to know exactly what has been done and how it was done - not what you think is the equivalent.

I like helping when I can. Please help me (and yourself) too.


----------



## Keyser_Soze

Hey Tinman,

Thanks again for your informative posts - I've sent a PM regarding a blade alignment issue I've had getting this saw set up. Everything is EXCELLENT except for the blade-to-miter-slot alignment, and you seem to know several methods. I figure I'd ask you before I drop an assembly and possibly a nut in frustration. TIA!


----------



## ClaudeY

Nice review, I'm going to Lowes tomorrow. 
This may be a dumb question but I'll ask anyway. 
I noticed you have a router table on your saw.
Is it an add on or did you make it?
I can't find anything about it.
I want your setup.


----------



## thetinman

Claude,

I built the router table. I have confused some people because it appears to be an add-on. I had the Delta blue and gray paint matched and used a paint/lacquer/poly finish I learned years ago. You can't find anything on it because I have posted nothing yet. I will post when I am finished dressing out the whole saw. This will be the culmination of a series of posts that I am doing. You can read about the bundle of projects at

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/100650#comment-1822574

Terry


----------



## ClaudeY

Thanks for the informative review.
I picked up this saw today.
Looking forward to setting it up and making some sawdust.


----------



## DanTindall

Pulled the trigger on this saw today. Thanks for the review and the tips. First cut after assembly and alignment of the fence was exactly on the money. No blade wobble no blade alignment issues, just a quiet saw.
I look forward to many new projects with this saw.


----------



## thetinman

Hi Dan,

Happy to hear about your new saw. Good luck and have fun with your projects.

Terry


----------



## Njineer

Well, I picked one of these up last weekend, and here is my story. I spent a couple of nights trying to align the 2" angle pieces of the split rail. Had it about as perfect as I could get. At least I thought. I put a long straight edge down the rail and realized the 2 pieces of the rail were not straight by themselves. I thought, maybe it won't matter and put the fence rail on. I just snugged the fasteners. The square tube for the fence rail just takes the shape of the 2" rail below. I was getting about .015" of variation in multiple spots.

My solution? I used some shim stock to shim fence tube perfectly straight and flat (.002") from one end to the other.

Other than that I love this saw. And shimming it up flat wasn't too difficult.


----------



## thetinman

Njineer,

You did good. It can be a fuss to get the rail stock straight, especially if working alone. Whatever you have to do to make and keep them straight for the fence guide is a job well done. Some just give up, use the saw any way they got it together and then complain about a terrible Delta fence.

Good solution - good job. Enjoy your new saw and stay safe.

Terry


----------



## Rayne

I just wanted to do a follow-up on this saw myself. I just started on my first real project on the saw making a cutting board using probably 8 different species of wood (that's how the random wood order came in). Needless to say, this saw had no issues with any of the hardwood I was throwing at it. I can also thank the Grr-ripper for making me feel safer cutting small strips on it. Overall, I am very satisfied with it and look forward to many projects I have lined up for it. Thanks for all the help, reviews, and follow-ups Terry. Wish such a new saw, this was invaluable for us all. Now only if Delta would release some accessories for it…


----------



## thetinman

Rayne…............happy to hear your into projects with your new saw and that all is well. Sounds like you're pretty happy with it. I'm glad all worked out so well for you. Keep us posted on your progress and post your projects when you complete them.

Have fun and stay safe.

Terry


----------



## thelt

Is there a significant advantage to convert it to 220V?


----------



## thetinman

Thelt,

You've asked a good question but also one that can start a whole set of threads. There are a great may people who believe that 240V is always better for the tool. There are those who will claim that their math says that rewiring the tool produces less line loss. There are those who simply read something somewhere and spout it whether they really know anything or not. I had a PM from a guy who wanted to know where to use the 3rd hot wire in his service panel since he was rewiring his shop. What? To him 240V meant 3-phase even though he didn't know what anything meant. My advice to him was to leave all of his tools at factory settings - be happy - live longer - and don't burn the house down.

I'm going to answer your question directly and honestly. I'll start by reminding everyone that we own the Delta 36-725 contractor tablesaw. It is a 13A tool @120V. It has an induction motor with split windings - parallel for 120V and series for 240V.

I don't know how "up" you are on electricity in general or electric motors. I have to say some preliminaries to support my position so some Teckie-talk is inevitable. Don't get hung up on it. I'll try to keep it short but factual. For those "up" on the topic - yes I will take some shorcuts in language so just understand that please.

If you rewire for 240V Thelt you will double the voltage and cut the current in each (now you have two) hot legs. Each motor winding still sees only 120V. Please don't get bogged down because I stated that 240V is now series. How can there still be 2 windings? It is because of the 180-degree phase angle with alternating current and the lag of an induction motor - so each half only sees the current and voltage in one direction. The current (13A) now has 2 paths (so to speak) so it splits 6.5A in each winding, hot leg. The net power into the motor did not change. Any internal resistance in the motor did not change. The net power produced by the motor did not change. In short - nothing changed as far as the saw motor was concerned. In short - no advantage - significant or otherwise.

Now, to avoid the "but what about wiring and line loss" threads. Some argue that rewiring to 240V causes less line loss. I disagree with this also. It is my belief that those who experienced this had questionable service to the tool to begin with. Note that I said actually experienced - not calculated to some number that has no place in the real world. If the wiring to your saw is correct to the building code then you will not experience any appreciable line voltage drop - period. I have said that my saw runs on a 12-ga, 20A line. All of my shop is wired this way. I stated in my posts that some people using the garage as a shop may pop breakers if, for example, they run the saw and a shop vac on the same line. You saw is 13A, 120V from the factory. If you are running it on a 15A outlet you may actually draw more than 13A, or possibly 15A, if you bog the motor down. For this reason I recommend the saw be run on a 12-ga, 20A line. In my opinion, more purpose can be universally gained by rewiring your shop in this way rather than for 240V conversion. The only 240V outlet I have is for my welder. I can rearrange my shop endlessly with universal 20A wiring. I do not believe you will see one iota of benefit/difference in rewiring your saw and your shop for 240V.


----------



## jacobem3

Does anyone know if this saw uses a standard NEMA motor size that you could find if the motor ever went out?

E-replacement-parts has a motor assembly listed but it costs twice as much as the saw itself. I'm trying to decide on a table saw and I'd like to find one that will be serviceable when it breaks. Thanks!


----------



## coolhandl

My first post here to lumberjocks…

I recently bought this saw based on this review, it seems perfect for my hobbyist, maker, diyer, sometimes woodworker needs.

I was able to assemble easily because of this review but I ran into a problem. I went to adjust the riving knife, so that I understood how to adjust it. I cannot seem to get the riving knife to solidly lock back into place and I cannot operate the lock lever to release or lock it without loosening the nut that attaches the lock lever. The riving knife sets in on the detents just fine but I can remove the riving knife without releasing the locking lever. I have tried to tighten up the nut on the lever in hopes that I had loosened it too much but this hasn't helped. I called Delta support and they told me to take it back, before I do I just want to make sure I'm not doing something stupid.

Does anyone have any advice to offer based on what you have seen with your 36-725's?


----------



## coolhandl

My first post here to lumberjocks…

I recently bought this saw based on this review, it seems perfect for my hobbyist, maker, diyer, sometimes woodworker needs.

I was able to assemble easily because of this review but I ran into a problem. I went to adjust the riving knife, so that I understood how to adjust it. I cannot seem to get the riving knife to solidly lock back into place and I cannot operate the lock lever to release or lock it without loosening the nut that attaches the lock lever. The riving knife sets in on the detents just fine but I can remove the riving knife without releasing the locking lever. I have tried to tighten up the nut on the lever in hopes that I had loosened it too much but this hasn't helped. I called Delta support and they told me to take it back, before I do I just want to make sure I'm not doing something stupid.

Does anyone have any advice to offer based on what you have seen with your 36-725's?

Here is a video to better illustrate what I am talking about


----------



## LaFleur

Thanks for all the effort that went into writing all the reviews for this saw.

I was looking at the Ridgid but the reviews scared me. Now the only problem is finding this saw in Canada, anyone know of somewhere that carries it ?


----------



## coolhandl

Follow up to my previous post - I did figure out my issue

Somehow my lock lever was in the wrong position, I loosened the nut, turned it clockwise, re tightened so it wouldnt go past the stop, and all is well.


----------



## SippinCitrus

Tinman:
Great review! It's much appreciated, and I'm happy to say that it helped me decide to buy this saw last week. My blade alignment is slightly off and hope you can clarify your trunnion method for me.
When you say that you just knocked the trunnion bolts loose, were you referring to the 2 torx bolts on each corner, or some other bolts?


----------



## jacquesr

Shawn: where are you located?
I'm going to pick up mine in Burlington, VT tomorrow.
I am based in Montréal.


----------



## jacquesr

Inserts - Leecraft
Hello guys, I have a talk with Janet who handles sales of Leecraft inserts.
Good news - inserts for the 36-725 are next in line…
The more people email her to indicate their interest the sooner they might be available!
I have agreed to test them once they are ready.
Janet's email address is: [email protected]

P.S. I hope my post is not against the rules.


----------



## Dlowe

Tinman thanks for both your reviews on this saw! I bought the saw because of your very thoughtful and detailed reviews and I just set it up. I am a newbie to woodworking so bear with me if my questions are silly. I noticed 2 things that concerned me
1. When I used a dial indicator to check alignment of the blade with the miter slot I noticed that the indicator varied by about 11/1000 inch just while keeping the dial in position and rotating the blade. I loosened the blade and rotated it on the arbor thinking that it was a warped blade but the high and low points changed by the same amount that I rotated the blade. It seems to me that the problem is the arbor not being straight. What do you think? Is this 'wobble' ok?
2. Is it normal to have a little 'give' at the rear end of the fence when pressure is applied?

Thanks!


----------



## thetinman

Dlowe,

I know this sounds counter intuitive but don't use a dial indicator to check the blade alignment. Some blades do have wobble. Some blades are thin and can't take any side force. Some dial indicators have springs stiff enough to deflect the blade. And so on. My bottom line is that it is easier for me to help if you use the old fashioned way so that everything is a constant.

To check the arbor hold the blade close to the arbor shaft and pull out (away) and in towards the motor. If it does not move or "clunk" your arbor is fine. Note that it is not possible to have absolutely no movement when dealing with bearing. But, a bad arbor is something that just stands out. You'll know it when you find it.

Use the stick/ruler on the miter gauge method to check blade alignment. It is describer endlessly in threads and all over the net. No offense intended but newbies tend to over-think and expect that anything less than perfection is a killer. Use the standard old-fashioned method and go with a couple thousands out. As a newbie you cannot outwork these measurements.

Regarding the fence, no it is not normal - and not acceptable - for the back of the fence to move. Your fence is not adjusted correctly. Tighten it up just a bit at a time until it does not move. Once you get the hang of it you can walk up to a saw and know if a fence is tight simply by applying pressure to the locking handle. It should "free fall" just above or to horizontal then require increasing amounts of pressure as you push down. Properly adjusted it should not even need to be all the way down to hold the fence tightly. Just half way or a bit more on the handle and you've got it right.

Again, don't get high tech and don't over think things. Save all that for when you gain more experience.

Hope this helps.

Terry


----------



## thetinman

Deleted repeated message


----------



## Dlowe

Thanks for your advice Terry!


----------



## Dlowe

Hello everyone, I have a question about blade alignment.

I tried using the trunnion method to align my blade that where the rear end of the blade was toeing in slightly towards the right miter slot. The issue I ran into is that the blade is at its limit already in that direction so I cant get it aligned properly. Is there another method to align?

Thanks.


----------



## Njineer

Email Delta. They will send you instructions. There is an easier method.


----------



## Lazyman

I was going to buy the Grizzly Hybrid saw to replace a 30 year old Delta contractor saw because a bearing went out in the motor but had some customer service issues when asking questions of the Grizzly tech guys and when I finally decided to pull the trigger they contacted me saying that they couldn't ship me one for almost 3 months. 3rd strike. I remembered seeing the Delta at Lowes and search for reviews lead me to thetinman's review (thanks BTW).

When assembling the first one, I got the legs on and turned it upright only to find that someone at the factory had dropped it on its corner causing the corner to turn up, making it unusable without grinding at least (insert choice words here). The box and styrofoam showed no damage, leading me to believe that it occurred prior to packing and shipping. The turned up corner even had some "delta blue" paint on it from the factory. Of course by the time you get to this point in the assembly, you have not only removed everything from the box but have cut the box away and, in my case, broke the protective Styrofoam off the upside down table. Of course I decided to return it to Lowes and the QC issue made me think twice about getting another but the great reviews here and on the Lowes website convinced me to return the lemon and try again. The second one looks good and runs great. I need to go back and get the wings aligned better but otherwise I am happy with the saw after first dust.

Someone way up in this conversation thread asked about a safety lock out and the response was that there wasn't one. On my power switch, you can put a padlock through (behind) the switch to prevent it from being turned on. Maybe this is a change but since the manual appears to be the the original, not the revised addition available online, I would think that they all have this feature.

Also, before I pulled the trigger on this saw I noticed that Delta has just released a new series of saws based upon the same design. They are calling it their 5000 series saws and you can see the brochure at the link below. It appears to have a more powerful motor (2HP I think) and have several different table configurations, including one with 2 cast wings instead of the steel ones. I seriously considered this instead of the 725 but they start at over $1000 so decided to stick with the cheaper Lowes version. Also note that on that brochure, they show the model numbers for the zero clearance and dado inserts (36-501 & 36-502 respectively). I made a call to their tech support guy and he confirmed that they will be compatible with the 725 when they are finally available in October (2014).

http://www.deltamachinery.com/documents/DELTA_Series_5000_Brochure.pdf


----------



## ScrapHappy

Tips for newbies assembling this saw - also, I have a question at the bottom for other people who own this saw:

First, bear in mind this is my first table saw and I'm also "hardware ignorant", so one issue I had was the fact that the hardware that came with the saw was completely unlabeled. As somebody who sees "funnel headed bolts that came with nuts and spiky washers" vs "flat but thick headed bolts with hex shaped heads and didn't come with nuts" as opposed to "5/16-18×1 1/8-inch flat head screw" and "5/16"-18 hex screw" respectively (and no, I didn't mix those up), I was more challenged than other people on this - so take these tips in that context.

First, read the thetinman's setup review top to bottom. Then read it again. Trust me. He's absolutely right about "put the stand on 180° from what the manual tells you"; you're really going to want the wheel with the foot pedal on the left side instead of the right. Also, make sure the holes in the stand and the legs of the table saw are clear; just as he said, mine had tiny little square pieces of tape over them blocking them. Check all 16 holes!

Next, the parts are unlabeled. Get them out and put them into individual dixie/styrofoam cups or something and as you figure out what they are, write it down. And don't put them on the actual saw top (my wife accidentally knocked one over and one of the spiky washer thingies (sorry…"5/16 lock washer") naturally landed in the saw shroud (sigh).

The manual is wrong. Even the new one. Example - my side table extensions have 3 holes. My manual shows 2, and the parts list shows only enough flat but thick headed bolts that are hex shaped and don't come with nuts (sorry, "5/16" - 18 hex screws") for 2, but they actually threw in enough for the 3 holes on each table. Quite frankly, if I had to choose the lesser of two evils, I'd go this way where I have the right number of parts and the wrong instructions than the other way around.

When putting the side table extensions on, finger tighten them down, then give 'em a half turn with the allen wrench - you want to get them to the point where they'll stay put when you nudge them up and down. Forget "make the wings flush with the table top" for now; just eyeball it and then ignore them until you have the rails up.

Ahhh…the rails. This part sucks. There are four pieces of black angle iron, and they're all different lengths. The manual gives you the lengths of the two you need for the front (36 3/4" and 20" respectively); I had to use a tape measure to figure out, but in retrospect I made it harder on myself than it had to be; the front rails have holes in both edges, the rear ones only one edge has holes in it.

IGNORE FIGURE 5 IN THE MANUAL. That picture makes it look like you only bolt the rails to the right side extension table - stupid; you don't even really want to bolt it to the side extension tables until after you've got the two half rails bolted together and to the cast iron table top and aligned and whatnot. Anyway - bolt the rails (funnel headed screws) ONLY to the cast iron table top. Don't worry yet about aligning them. Just get them relatively even and then put the "union" plate holding them together (with the two tiniest bolts and nuts in your collection) on them. Do NOT bolt the table extensions to the rails yet no matter what the stupid manual says. At this point, use their alignment guide to get the rails aligned to the cast iron table top - and bear in mind your angle iron might not be at a perfect 90° (mine wasn't) - the important part isn't daylight showing on the part of the alignment guide touching the bottom of the rail, the important part is no daylight showing on the TOP part (the part that rests on the cast iron table top). Make sure there's no daylight there (the top) and that the guide is touching the bottom of the rail. It's really hard to make this part clear; it all basically stems from the fact your angle iron rail might not be a perfect 90° angle.

Once you've got the front rail attached to the cast iron table table ONLY and aligned and the bolts locked down tight, at THIS point bolt the cast iron extensions to the rail - here's where you get them (the front edges anyway) flush with the cast iron top. BTW - I used the fence guide to help me out here - lay it across the cast iron table top extending out over the side table extension you're working with - lift up the far end of the extension until it just touches the fence guide and tighten it down. Remember the bolts that attach the side table extensions to the cast iron table top? Tighten down the one closest to the front at this point (leave the rear ones still finger tight + 1/2 turn; you'll do those when you get the rear rail right).

Rear rails - avoid the stupid headache I gave myself. The manual is actually CORRECT here and I just missed it. The four bolts that attach the rear rails to the cast iron table top are NOT those "funnel headed" screws you used on the front rail, it's the remaining four "flat but thick hex headed screws" you've got (the same ones as the 6 you've got holding the side table extensions to the cast iron table top). You know the drill - bolt the rear rails to the cast iron table top with those four screws and DON'T bolt the side table extensions onto the rails yet. Get those rear rails level with the table top using the alignment guide (and this job is a bit more annoying than the front because the rear rails don't have a "union plate" holding them together). Then bolt the side table extensions on and here's where you fully tighten the rear and center bolts holding the side table extensions to the cast iron table top.

At this point, the rest is pretty easy. Put the fence guide together and screw it to the front rail, but I have two important tips for you: first, the picture in the manual (figure 7) is wrong; there are two screws near where the two fence guide pieces meet, not just one as it shows. And second, remember that the leftmost two screws (the ones right next to each other) have to go through the power control box as well. I stupidly went along and put all the screws in, then realized I had to put the power box with the left two I'd just tightened down (sigh). Long day.

It wasn't immediately obvious from the manual how to put the anti-kickback pawls on (or take them off). It's actually fairly easy when you figure out the trick: in your hand, rotate the pawls backwards against the spring (careful, they're pointy). Then, from the side, push the pin they pivot on inwards - it's spring loaded and will move a couple of millimeters exposing the fact the pin gets "skinnier" when you do that - at this point, it will fit right into that notch in the riving knife (the middle one that's sort of pear shaped - skinny at the top, fat at the bottom). The Blade Guard's pretty self explanatory. NOTE: if you're going to be checking the alignment of your saw blade with the miter slot, you're going to want to remove both of these gizmos. Also note: with these gizmos on, you won't be able to lower the blade all the way into the table (not even close, actually).

Final note/question: I can't figure out how the wheels work, and I'm wondering if my saw stand is defective (or more likely, just me being defective). I was assuming that when you step on the blue pedal, it leverages the wheel down lifting the table up so it's resting on the wheel instead of the two rubber feet, and that it would lock in place that way until you wheeled the table saw where you wanted it, and then release the pedal allowing the wheel to come back up and the rubber feet to come down as the saw does. Well, mine doesn't work that way. First, the pedal doesn't "lock"; you have to keep holding your foot on it exerting pressure while you move the saw, which is awkward to say the least. Second, if the wheel under the pedal pivots enough while you're moving the saw (such as when you're turning it), the plate exerting the leverage…doesn't anymore and the saw comes down on its rubber feet again; you then have the annoying job of trying to manually lift up that end of the saw while rotating the wheel around to where you can use the pedal again…ARGH. What am I missing?


----------



## Lazyman

ScrapHappy


> Final note/question: I can t figure out how the wheels work, and I m wondering if my saw stand is defective (or more likely, just me being defective). I was assuming that when you step on the blue pedal, it leverages the wheel down lifting the table up so it s resting on the wheel instead of the two rubber feet, and that it would lock in place that way until you wheeled the table saw where you wanted it, and then release the pedal allowing the wheel to come back up and the rubber feet to come down as the saw does.
> 
> - ScrapHappy


You are correct. When you push down on the foot lever it raises the base off the 2 rubber feet and locks in that position. So far, I have not had a problem with it dropping when moving it around. When the foot lever is down, the plate that the wheel is attached to is approximately parallel to the ground at about 3.5" above the ground. In this position, the bottom of the base tube, not counting the pads, on my saw is raised about 1" off the ground. Make sure that the rubber pads are not too low or the wheel won't be able to raise it up. My pads only clear the ground by about 1/4" in the raised position. The only thing that I can think of is that the bar that angles up from the bottom tube might have been welded at the wrong angle? On mine, the top of that bar is about 6.5" off the ground when I raise the saw and about 6.25" when down. If you are close to a Lowes, you might want to go look at their floor model and see if it works correctly. If it does, it might be obvious if yours is defective.


----------



## ScrapHappy

Lazyman (or anyone else), could you post a picture of what the pedal/wheel is supposed to look like in the up position and in the down/locked position so I could compare it to what mine looks like? I took another look at it this morning before I left for work and for the life of me can't see how it would lock in position, and whenever the wheel swivels, it changes the angle of the plate the wheel is connected to, which is shouldn't (my thoughts are that when you push the pedal down, it should push the plate down to a horizontal position forcing that end of the table up off the feet and it should stay perfectly horizontal locked while the wheel is free to swivel 360° as you move the table where you want it to go, and that's not happening on mine).


----------



## Lazyman

Scraphappy, 
This is my fist attempt to post images so hopefully this works

This is with wheel up and stationary:









And this is wheel down and mobile (ignore the iPad cover in the foreground):









Remember that it only raises the saw about a quarter of an inch and when stationary and the wheel still rests on the ground.


----------



## thelt

I think your best bet would be to call Delta and explain the problem to them. They should be able to clear up your problem.


----------



## Lazyman

I am still working through first impressions of the saw and overall I am pleased but I am having a problem getting my riving knife aligned. I hadn't really had a problem until I decided to change my crosscut sled to work with the new saw. I basically just took off one of the sled runners and reattached it (the miter slots on my old Delta contractor saw were closer together) and re-squared the fence on the sled. I decided to leave the riving knife in but in the lower non-through cut position. It was working fine when cutting thinner pieces but I decided to raise the blade to almost max height just to go ahead and get the slot through the back fence on the sled higher so that I don't have to worry about forgetting to lower the blade before putting the sled on the saw. It cut through the back fence just fine but when I pushed sled back, the riving knife hung on the kerf/slot I just cut through the back fence. The knife slides back through with a noticeable catch. This didn't happen when the blade was in the lower position or if it did it was less severe and I just attributed it to the minimal friction and tight fit of the runners in the miter slots. My suspicion is that raising the blade exaggerates this issue. After fiddling with the knife alignment for over an hour, I managed to only get it back to the original alignment (no improvement). I didn't have the frustration figuring out how to attach and remove the blade guard and pawls that others seem to have but understanding how the riving knife adjustments screws actually work is still a mystery even after over an hour of making adjustments-not the most intuitive design and basically nothing in the manual to help you understand. After removing the knife and laying it on the table I finally realized that the knife is not perfectly flat (see crude picture below). While it is the back of the knife that catches as I move the sled back, it is actually the front tip of the knife that is not true. This is because the front of the knife is aligned with the blade causing the back to be out of alignment. Note that the blade that came with the saw was also not flat. After checking the blade alignment to the miter slot, I realized that the blade was off by about .025" so I put a Freud combination blade I was using on my old saw on and found that the blade was within .003 alignment with the miter slot-close enough.

So I don't know if the knife came this way or if it got bent while learning how to adjust and remove it. When first exploring the riving knife and checking alignment, I was surprised how hard you sometimes have to push the knife to the side to disengage the detentes. I was concerned at the time that I might bend the knife while trying to move or remove it because at first it wouldn't budge. In my opinion, the knife retention device is not the most elegant design. I have never had a saw with a riving knife before but I did play with at least one other showroom saw while researching which saw to buy and in hindsight, this one was by far more difficult and less intuitive to use. While I didn't explore exactly how the others work, it seems to me that it would have made more sense for the locking mechanism to move or retract the detentes or pins that lock the knife so that you minimize the risk of flexing the knife when moving or removing it. It would be better if when you unlock it, the only movement was vertical. With this design, I think that it is inevitable that the knife will eventually become bent. Frankly, I don't think that I bent the knife but years of flexing it slightly to move it from one position to the next will eventually take their toll.

Attachments:
Not the best picture but when laid on the table and pressing the base of the knife flat, you can see light under the front tip of the knife. On the saw, the front of the knife is aligned with the blade causing the back and top of the knife to not be within the kerf of the blade. It is even less of an issue when the knife is in the through cut position since most of the issue is at the top of the knife.


----------



## mad4268

Hi guys. I have been a long time lurker and finally decided to join and hopefully add to the knowledge here but continue to learn as there is a ton of great info on LJ.

Great review tinman and continual updates! I actually recently purchased the Delta 36-725 also. It was an upgrade from a hand me down job site table saw.

Out of the box, I had blade miss-alignment around .008". I noticed and issue when using the supplied miter gauge to check the blade alignment and wanted your opinion. When moving the miter gauge to check the back side of the blade, the rubber washer on the bottom of the track extends past the table and out of the slot. At that point you can wiggle the gauge and there is ~.005" of play in the slot. Is that causing my blade alignment reading to be off? Even with the miter gauge fully in the slot it can be wiggled back and forth with about the same .005" of play.

Your thoughts?


----------



## Lazyman

Mad4268,
I assume you are talking about the washer that fits in the T-slot that prevents the miter gauge from falling/ tilting when the gauge is towards the front of the table. My miter gauge doesn't have a rubber washer. It is metal and my miter gauge has almost no play in it. If it were any tighter it might not slide easily. You might want to call the Delta customer support number to see if they can help you. I've had good luck with email support. If you get more wobble from one slot compared to the other, it could be a defect? You can also try temporarily putting a piece of tape on one side of the miter gauge bar to shim it tight. Also note that the standard blade that came with my saw was not flat so it was impossible to get a good reading using that stock blade. It was off by over .010" It's a shame too because it actually cut pretty nicely for a cheap blade. With another blade, mine was within .003"-close enough for my abilities anyway.

To check the alignment, you might consider cutting a strip of wood that fits perfectly into the miter slot and use that instead of the miter gauge to measure your blade alignment. You can fine tune it by lightly sanding it until you get a tight fit but slides easily. I have seen several examples on the web where people have attached their dial gauge to a home made sled to check blade alignment.

Also, don't get too crazy with alignment. For example, I think that the specs for the saw say that the fence is accurate to 1/32" front to back. You can do better than that by carefully aligning and carefully locking the fence but since 1/32 is .03125, .005 or even .008 is not much error relatively speaking. When working with wood, there are only a few situations where precision to 1/128" (.0078125") is necessary (or even possible). I have found that when I need precision on cross cuts, a well made cross cut sled is the best way to go. Again, there are some great examples of cross cut sleds on the internet. This one is my favorite:
http://wnwoodworkingschool.com/5-cuts-to-a-perfect-cross-cut-sled/
I use mine anytime I need to make right angle cross cuts. My 2 cents.


----------



## Lazyman

Followup on riving knife issue that I posted earlier in this thread…

I emailed Delta Customer support about the issue and they sent me a new riving knife. It arrived within 2 days of sending the purchase date and serial number to them. They also sent me a Delta coffee mug as a small token. So far I have had good luck with Delta customer support related to this saw. I'd like to hear what kind of experience others are having. I also told the guy he should send thetinman something nice because he has probably sold a couple dozen saws because of his great reviews here so anyone else who contacts customer support should also put a plug in for thetinman!


----------



## mad4268

Lazyman,

I miss-spoke when I called the washer rubber, it is actually metal. The washer is located at the far end of the gauge and when checking the back end of the blade it extends out of the slot and overhangs the table and that is when I have the play in the slot.

I too have had decent success with their customer service as I had a bent throat plate when I opened the box. It was very easy to get a replacement. All I had to do was tell them my issue and give them my serial number and they mailed a new one. So far I love the saw but my one complaint is the thin throat plate.

I also inquired about ZC and Dado plates and she said October so I will probably make my own. This was after I sent an email and was told the all the accessories in the new 5000 series brochure adapt exactly to the 36-725. So I bought the ZC insert and sure enough, they are not even close to the right size… I was able to return it but am out the cost of return shipping.


----------



## wormil

Glad to hear that Delta customer service is back to where it used to be. I own a different Delta saw but it was missing a few fasteners. Dealer said 2 weeks (so much for using a local dealer for customer service), called Delta and they overnighted the screws and I had them Saturday morning.


----------



## EricLew

I just joined the site, this is my first posting. I am getting back into woodworking after about 10 years. I have a wide range of tools, but needed a new table saw. Looking back I cant believe I made the furniture I did with my low end Craftsman bench top table saw. I guess it's only because I had built the New Yankee Workshop table saw station. I found this site because I was searching for reviews of the Delta 36-725. What a fantastic site this is. Great info and honest reviews. Based on the incredibly detailed review by TheTinman I just got back from Lowes with it in my truck. Thank you all so much! I now know to download the newest assembly instructions, put the lift on the left  and how to check the adjustments.

I actually wasn't ready to buy it, I need to get a bunch of junk out of the garage, but I was concerned I wouldn't be able to get one. Lowes stock is dwindling, and based on the new 5000 series, I assume these will be gone very soon. From what I can tell the only differences are, a 2 amp increase in the motor, one piece fence rails, and one extra right side table wing. As someone here pointed out, most of the part numbers are identical. I plan on adding a right side router table, and based on my usage I don't need to more powerful motor, so the only real difference for me was the one piece rails, not worth the extra $500.

Got to clean out the garage, this 3 day weekend. Looking forward to getting this saw assembled and contributing to this site.


----------



## defsquad

Lazyman,

I'm chiming in late here, but I have the same issue with my riving knife too! I tried my darndest to flatten it, but i may have made it worse. :/

I'll give customer support a ring and see if they can replace it for me as well.



> Followup on riving knife issue that I posted earlier in this thread…
> 
> I emailed Delta Customer support about the issue and they sent me a new riving knife. It arrived within 2 days of sending the purchase date and serial number to them. They also sent me a Delta coffee mug as a small token. So far I have had good luck with Delta customer support related to this saw. I d like to hear what kind of experience others are having. I also told the guy he should send thetinman something nice because he has probably sold a couple dozen saws because of his great reviews here so anyone else who contacts customer support should also put a plug in for thetinman!
> 
> - Lazyman


----------



## ratflinger

Thank you tinman. Just purchase this saw, due somewhat to your review. I have printed off your setup instructions and look forward to making many fine cuts. My dad has a 20 yo or so Delta Contractor saw and someday it will be mine, but in the meantime I look forward to this saw.


----------



## JohnEinNJ

Has anyone had a problem with the face of the miter gage not being perpendicular to the table? I found that as I tighten the lock knob, the face starts to lean back, especially when the angle is set to one of the detents (like 90). Looking at how it's constructed, this looks unavoidable. I addressed it by adding an auxiliary fence, putting in some shim stock and then carefully tightening the knob while checking for perpendicular with a square.


----------



## wormil

I'm trying to think of a situation where it would matter if the miter gauge is perpendicular and can't think of one.


----------



## JohnEinNJ

In my situation, I was cutting a dovetail into the end of a long stretcher piece. I attached an aux fence, and clamped the piece to the fence, standing up. The blade was at an angle. If the piece isn't perpendicular to the table, the depth of cut will vary from front to back.


----------



## ratflinger

Wow - assembled the saw today - The manual is such a disappointment. I'll be using tinman's guide to align the saw. I install high performance servers for the medical community and before we do a final release I go out and take the engineering manual and red line it fully. As lead installation engineer I am as responsible for a correct manual as product engineering is. How much trouble would it have been for Delta to do the same? I like the saw, but 1 day and a red pen would make all the difference in the world. The majority of the people buying this saw aren't on this site and will wonder why they aren't getting the performance they deserve and some of them will think the saw is an inferior product. It would probably cost Delta nothing to do this - heck tinman would probably do it for a dado.


----------



## jacquesr

Did you get the latest manual from Delta's website?


----------



## ratflinger

> Did you get the latest manual from Delta s website?
> 
> - jacquesr


 yep - same as the one with the saw - mainly the details, but that's where the devil is.


----------



## thetinman

My thanks to all for the comments both good and bad, And special thanks to people like Scraphappy and Lazyman for offering their knowledge and experiences to help others. I have been away for a family emergency in which we lost a granddaughter and for medical situations of my own.

I don't know how well I can keep up right now but I will be trying to get back in the groove as best I can. In the mean time, I am happy for your experiences and enjoy reading the comments and seeing the friendliness shown here.

Thanks to all

The Tinman


----------



## ratflinger

May peace find you brother


----------



## jlhoeft

I am sorry for your loss tinman.

Like a few others here I am having problems aligning the riving knife. Mine is warped just like lazyman's. I also have a throat plate that is warped. I just shot an email to Delta CS and I'll let you all know how they respond.


----------



## EricLew

My sympathies to you and your family Tinman.

It took a lot longer than I planned to clear and prep my garage to assemble my saw, I went out and unpacked it a couple of hours ago and I found I am missing a lot of parts. I mean a lot, 8 parts.

Left front rail
Left rear rail
Left fence guide
all 4 support panels
and the anti kick back pawls.

I can only image someone at Lowes, or a customer cannibalized this for parts. What a disappointment, it's been sitting in my garage for almost 3 weeks, and now that I'm finally ready to get going, I'm stuck.
Calling Delta tomorrow to see how they want me to handle this.


----------



## tolson68

Tinman,

My condolences on your loss and your personal medical problems. I never know what to say at these times so I'm going to have to quote ratflinger and just say, "May peace find you brother"

Tom


----------



## thetinman

Thank you all for your kind words of sympathy and for your thoughts and prayers. It was a loss for us and for our daughter and son-in-law who lost a child. Children should bury parents and grandparents. It should not be the other way around. We are of hardy stock and will mend - both body and soul. Especially when we know others care.

Our sincere thanks to all of you.

Now go build something and don't cut your fingers off. I don't want to have to write condolences to you.

Thanks

Terry


----------



## thetinman

Jlhoeft, Lazyman, others

Sorry to hear about the warped riving knife and throat plates. My throat plate was slightly bent when I bought my saw. A vice and a tap at the slight bend and it was fine.

Warping is similar to a bend but there is a difference. A bend has a "line" you can see, clamp and remove carefully. A warp is more gradual and takes a different technique. Eyeball the plate to see where the warp begins (approximately). Place this spot over your workbench or the edge of your saw table. Press down on the end of the plate - only a bit. Don't try to take out a bow/warp with one adjustment. Now keep moving the plate further onto the bench/table and keep pressing slightly each time. You may have to repeat this a couple of times. You may have to flip the plate end-for-end or even flip it over. But with patience the bow will come out.

Regarding the riving knife, the solution/fix is probably easier. Even if it was not bent/bowed/curved at the time you received it, it can happen easily. Fortunately it can also be fixed easily. You have to pull the top of the knife out to disengage/engage the pins when removing /installing the knife. This is where you get the oops. Now its' bent or bowed. You can see if this is the case when the top of the knife is more to the right than the bottom. In my experience this has been the case. (Yes I've made the oops and friends have too) In each case I/we have put the knife between two pieces of wood in a vice and honked it down. Now the knife is (almost) straight again. Put the bottom of the knife back in the vice to a point just above the holes. Give it a little bump in the direction you need it to go - like with the throat plate. Check and repeat. You'll find it does not take long and your knife is like brand new. Keep in mind that this is usually a defect unknowingly caused by the saw operator. Even if it was straight when you got it there is a chance you will inadvertently bend it. We may as well learn how to fix it.

When installing/removing the riving knife try to remember to hold it as low as possible and recognize it has a vulnerability. Also, make sure you have taken no short cuts in adjusting a straight knife and lock it down properly. It can be a bit of a pain at first but you'll thank yourself for the rest of the time you own the saw.

Terry


----------



## jlhoeft

Hey guys, I emailed Delta at 11:16 pm Thursday night and by 10am Friday I had received an email from Keith in CS. He said he would drop the parts, a riving knife and throat plate, in the mail today. If I had bothered to look at their address I would have just driven over to Delta's office since it is less than 40 miles away.


----------



## EricLew

For my missing parts, I called CS and explained my situation to Hope. She asked me to fax her a list of my missing parts, which I did, but I regret not going the email route, since I'm in California and the 3 hour time difference sometimes makes calling difficult. I Hope they arrive soon.


----------



## jlhoeft

Another update for you guys. Here is the timeline:
11:16 pm 9/18, emailed Delta
10:00 am 9/19, Keith responds advising he will ship parts
Some time today, 9/20, parts delivered to my mailbox

They shipped one-day priority and the parts seem to be perfectly flat in reference to the cast iron table.


----------



## EricLew

update on my missing parts….
I called Hope in CS today (Tuesday) following up on the list of missing parts I faxed Friday afternoon. She told me they were shipped yesterday. I checked the FedEx tracking number and they will arrive Friday. I guess that makes sense since all the parts are steel and I'm 3,000 miles away, besides I wouldn't have a chance to assemble it until the weekend anyway. I also sent Lowe's an e-mail telling them what happened. I am SO ready to assemble this saw. I cant stare at that box much longer 
Eric


----------



## thetinman

I'm happy to hear that Delta is taking care of the customers again. They were building a bad reputation for a while. It looks like they have a mind set to come back strong. Glad to have the old Delta back.


----------



## spo

Terry - aka tinman: I signed up on this forum solely to comment on and thank you for your excellent posts on this saw. I am a slight level up from wood butcher, but inching steadily toward being a true woodworker. I've been using an old Craftsman table saw inherited from my dad, and it has served my meager skills rather well. I've been "lusting" after a new saw for a while, but I wasn't ready to spend the money and just didn't know what to buy. Keeping in mind your caveat that you don't recommend purchases to other people, I'm taking seriously your sentiment that you would buy this saw again. So, this will be the one I'll be getting. When I do, I'll pull up your posts and be reading them as I assemble and align this beautiful piece of machinery. Thank you for your generosity in putting together these long posts. Between your writing and your woodworking, I'm guessing your wife feels something like a golf widow. No one is quite as zealous or single-minded as golfers and woodworkers. Well, at least she got a desk out of it! Thanks again.


----------



## spo

Oh, and by the way, thanks for taking some care with your writing. I'm an educator, so I pay attention to such things.


----------



## spo

Just read about your loss, Terry. I hope that you're okay with me offering up some prayers for you and your family. God bless you!


----------



## EricLew

Well, when I got home from work yesterday, my parts delivery was sitting there waiting for me as scheduled, all the missing parts as promised. The only MINOR issue was the 4 lower covers are all blank, so I don't have that nice Delta Logo, oh well, missing so many parts, I am just happy to have everything. I couldn't wait to finally get started, so I put the legs, wheels and panels on and got her out of the box. That was all I could do, due to previous plans, but I got right at it today and finished the assembly. Total time about 4 hours. I really think I have the rails and side wings dead nuts perfect, and that's because of the phenomenal guidance of the members of this site, especially, of course, you Tinman. I can't thank you enough. Even the little nuances of the riving knife and pawls were very confusing out of the manual, but your experience made it so easy.

It is true how there are little changes made to this saw, mine does have 3 bolts in the sides of the cast iron table to mount the wings, which I'm happy about because I hope to buy the Bench Dogs cast iron router extension at The Woodworkers Show next month, and as someone else mentioned here, there is now a safety locking feature built into the power switch.

Tonight or tomorrow I will check all the adjustments, and do a final cleaning and waxing, can't wait to start making some saw dust !

Again, thank you so much !

Eric


----------



## thetinman

SPO,

Thank you for your kind words and especially for your prayers. I was running an old Craftsman too before I bought the Delta. Regarding my care in writing, I type in WORD first acuz my speeling is atroshous

EricLew,

I'm happy to hear that Delta came through for you and that the assembly so far was not too difficult.

I hope both of you have many years of safe, happy projects in woodworking.

Terry


----------



## EricLew

So I need some advice on Blade alignment….

My fence is perfectly at 90 degrees to the table top, and it's parallel to the right miter slot within .003 Strangely (to me) the .003 is in the middle of the fence, the ends are perfect .000

The blade is out .012 That is using the same tooth zeroed out at the front of the blade fully raised, rotating it to the back it's .012 to the left. I have tried adjusting the trunnion in the rear, to me, its really hard to get at those Torx screws, in the rear, one on each side is blocked by the aluminum cross member of the frame, and when I crawled under the front to loosen those, even with the extension and Torx 40 bit I bought i couldn't get the (right side looking up from underneath) loose. So my attempt was with 3 of the 4 corners loosened. It had no effect at all. I also found another thread here that talks about adjusting the alignment in 5 minutes by just loosening two other screws, and tapping, that didn't work either.

So, I'm not sure what to try next, I know a lot of people here are satisfied with a .006, and I would be too but mine is double that, so I think it needs to be aligned, or am I wrong ?

I will say that working on this for hours today, I'm thinking it might be the blade. I have taken it off and reinstalled it to make sure it wasn't too tight, and have tried to look for wobble when it spins down, but I don't seem to see any. Of course I may not be looking at it the right way. Given the fact this saw was missing so many parts when I got it, I cant be sure it's not a weird blade issue, plus, from everything I've read here the blade alignment on these saws has been really good out of the box.

That leads to my next question, I was going to buy a nice Diablo blade today at HD to see if that solved my issue, but every blade they sell is thin or ultra thin kerf, so that will cause a problem with the riving knife won't it? Do you guys all use full kerf blades? and if so, where do you get them?

Thanks for the help
Eric


----------



## Big_T

Great review. I was fiddling with the idea of getting a SS, but really want this saw - it just seems like a great bang for the buck. For now I will just make things work with a miter and circular saw, but I sure wish I had space for a TS.


----------



## thetinman

ErecLew,

I'm sorry to hear about the issues you've been having with your saw. I can't help but think that your saw is a customer return. I think the previous purchaser returned it and Lowe's did not check the box contents. I am happy to hear that Delta came through for you though by quickly getting you the parts. Hopefully the previous purchaser did not screw around with the saw.

Regarding the fence, it is an extruded aluminum cover over an aluminum box tube. 0.003 is not really meaningful in terms of tolerances over that long run. If you turn your fence over you will see that the outer cover is bolted to the inner box. You can try fiddling with the bolt tension, or shims, if you want to try to bring it in more.

Now for the blade alignment. If you read through the endless threads in both the original and follow-up review you will see that I have intentionally knocked my blade out of alignment many times. With nothing in the owner's manual, it was the only way I could learn different methods of alignment. It was the only way I could test the claims made by others. Some methods I tried don't work. Some are easier, some are harder and some are just plain dangerous for the saw and you.

The only method I have supported without Delta's blessing is using the trunnions. Delta has now approved the other method.

Here is a link to Delta's Power Point slides for blade adjustment:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29106827/Delta%20Contractors%20Saw%2036-725%20Blade%20Alignment.pptx

He is a link to a free Power Point viewer from Microsoft if you have trouble viewing the slides:

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=6

I've used this method and know this method works. It is fast and easy. Note that it does not call for tapping the motor with a hammer. Also, it does not call for loosening the front riser screws and especially the safety set screw. The motor will move by hand. It may be a bit snug but it will move. Lastly, this method is safe for you and your saw. I have walked over a dozen people through remounting and realigning the motor after they went too far with the wrong methods and dropped the motor. Yes, I and others have taken our saws apart and put them back together without issue. But a motor falling unexpectedly in cramped quarters can be dangerous. Fortunately, only minor cuts and bruises for the owners - so far. Sooner or later there's going to be a broken wrist.

In your particular case, we don't know what the previous purchaser may have done. Maybe he/she was one of those people that just hammered away. Get the Power Point slides from Delta and follow that method exactly as described. Send me a PM if that does not work. I will privately work with you to set your saw up properly.

Your saw will be fine Eric. Go outside and shout at the moon then have a beer.

And now let's finish up with the question of saw blades. You do have to check the thickness of the thin kerf (TK) blades before you buy them or you will have issues with the riving knife. I can't afford those $100-plus blades. I switched from Diablo to the Irwin Marples series of blades based on a review by Knottscot. I run a 50T combination for general work and a 22T for ripping. I know there are better blades in the world but, for my price range, I love these blades. They are about $30 at Lowe's. We live in a "Wall street" world. The ultra thin blades are today's marketing fad. Leave it to Wall Street to come up with a solution to a problem we did not have and then shove it down our throats. Oops, that sounds a lot like Washington, D.C. Be patient and keep searching. The blades are out there. Now, eat your broccoli and go get a blade.

Terry


----------



## EricLew

Thank you Tinman,

First it's incredible how much time, effort, and caring you put in to helping strangers, yes fellow woodworkers, but at least in the beginning, strangers. You're amazing.

Thank you for all the advice, and the link to the instructions. That was the "other 5 minute, 2 screw adjustment" I tried, but the thread wasn't descriptive, and i wasn't shifting the motor, I was tapping with a mallet in the wrong area. I cant wait to get home and re-try it properly. I will however buy a new blade and install that first, just to see if I have the same variance with a different blade.

Even though I have had issues, and still haven't cut my first piece of wood, I love this saw. Watching the NYW for about 15 years, I always wanted a Delta table saw, I know it's not a Unisaw, but my last TS was a Benchtop direct drive Craftsman, that never got aligned or adjusted, it vibrated like a message chair, and sounded like an airplane. 

I tried the "nickle test" yesterday, and this saw passed with flying colors, and its really quiet, as you all know. Add to that the pretty easy time I had with assembling the rails and side wings, and I'm very happy with this purchase.

I know this saw wasn't used or abused, When I noticed all the missing parts, i looked it over very closely upside down in the box and it was clean as a whistle, when I unpacked it, the top was still covered with oil and the plastic cover, and you can tell bolts had not been removed and reinstalled.

I'm looking at these issues as a learning experience, and a way to get really familiar with this saw. I will let you know the outcome of the new blade and adjustments.

Thanks again !


----------



## ScrapHappy

My condolences as well, Tinman. Sorry for your loss…

I meant to post back earlier (I was having trouble with the wheels getting stuck when trying to move my saw) but since resolving the issue (I had the rubber feet extended way too far down) I've been having too much fun with the saw to reply back. My latest project is an aquarium stand for a 20 gallon fish tank that keeps trying to get too elaborate for my neophyte wood working skill set - I'm now about to dive into the esoteric world of wood dye and mitered baseboard/molding cuts because of it…


----------



## thetinman

ScrapHappy,

Glad to hear you're having fun with your new saw. Thank you for your kind words of our loss.

EricLew,

Your comment about the other post(s) not being clear and descriptive is understood. I know that it may seem like my responses are comparatively long but I strive to actually help. I do not claim (or pretend even to myself) that I know everything about this saw. However, I have used my saw as the learning tool in order to evaluate many of the claims and respond to the questions. As a result I do think I know more than some Newbie. As I said, I have helped to undo the damage done by people who read other posts and charged ahead. It's just the nature of the world. When I do write I write as though I am talking to Newbies and try to be clear and descriptive. I do not care if I'm responding to a seasoned woodworker - a Newbie will read the post sooner or later. I also try to add a reassuring light hearted comment or two because nerves can get frayed when things don't go well. My personal attitude is to write only if I can be helpful and then to take the time to really be helpful.

My comment to you regarding sending me a PM if things get hinky is learned through experience. I will NOT post some tricks on the site. There are just too many inexperienced, mechanically declined people out there. I will work one-on-one if the situation warrants and the person displays the ability to follow instructions and not jump to do "the same thing" a different way. I think you follow.

Terry


----------



## EricLew

Hi Tinman,

How does this number sound ?

0.000

Thank you so much for all your help, you are a savior. The last procedure you instructed me on in the PMs was the trick.

Every time I have gotten instructions, I always look at the parts list pdf file to get a visual of what I am going to do, I find that very helpful. It really helps you get familiar with the parts and their locations.

It also dawned on me during these last adjustments to lower the saw blade, DUH ! I can't believe I didn't think of that when I was trying to adjust the trunnions, boy that would have been easier.

With your last set of instructions I was able to move the motor, then raised the blade and checked the measurement, instead of 0.012 it was 0.086, Somehow I moved the motor the opposite direction of what I intended. I went back and shifted it back, and now it was 0.002, then I just tapped it lightly with my finger, and it was 0.000 !

I gently tightened up all the screws and couldn't believe it still read 0.000 I didn't spend hours obsessing to get to there, I just got really lucky, the whole operation took about 20 minutes. I rechecked the reading about 30 times, because I couldn't believe it. Raised and lowed the blade, ran the saw, then checked about 20 different teeth, a few were 0.001, but almost all were still 0.000

I am SO happy, I wish you could see the smile on my face, now my blade is perfect, the blade angles at 45 & 90 are perfect, the fence is perfect, and it's all thanks to you. Now I am ready for my final cleaning and waxing, then I can get started making my sled and jigs.

Although I never got discouraged, with the missing parts, or the blade alignment issues I also never thought I would get all those adjustments so perfect

Eric


----------



## thetinman

Wow Eric!!!

I'm so very happy you were able to bring your saw in. Your excitement is contagious. I feel excited for you. I'm very glad I was able to help and the little tricks/tips worked so well for you.

Thanks for posting your successes. I hope others read your post and realize that hammers and mallets are just not the way to go. As you described, you just tapped the motor with your finger to take the blade from 0.002 to 0.000. It is that easy. I'm also glad you said that it took you about 20 minutes. There are so many erroneous/misleading posts that claim it can be done in 5 minutes. Considering removing/reinstalling the back panel, loosening/tightening screws, adjusting the motor, checking/rechecking the blade, etc. it is simply impossible to accomplish blade alignment in 5 minutes.

Don't beat yourself up for not immediately lowering the motor to make getting at the screws easier. It is counterintuitive to think that you can move the motor up and down when you are trying to make adjustments. You would think that this would throw off the adjustments you are trying to make. As you proved, Delta's riser tube design makes raising/lowering the motor independent of the adjustments you are trying to make.

Thanks again for posting, not only your fine work, but your excitement. I hope you keep that excitement in all the things you do. Stay happy and work safely.

Terry


----------



## jlhoeft

I finally had to opportunity to finish getting my saw set up. The fence is only out .002" over it's entire length. Initially, the blade was out .070" to the right miter slot. But after adjustment I got it down to .006" between the front and back of the blade. Thanks to Tinman for the PowerPoint detailing the blade adjustment!


----------



## jacquesr

Hi,
After many months of delay, I finally got mine!
I am very impressed with the quality overall. Paid 450 at Lowes in Burlington (I live in Montréal).
Assembly went fine, except for one thing… The blade nut was so tight that I broke the arbor….
The good people at Delta are sending me a replacement… no hassle - THAT'S great service.
I had communicated many times by email with them first.

Did all the adjustments nonetheless. Blade alignment was .002… awesome.

No doubt of my mind this is by far the best table saw under 1K.
My only previous experience is with General table saws.

One question: where can I find the serial number of my unit?
Guys at Delta need it and I dont see it anywhere….

Last but not least: THANK YOU TINMAN. You did all of us a great service.
I hope all is well with your family.


----------



## EricLew

Hi jacquesre.
Welcome to the club. You probably read above the challenges I had and the parts I was missing. Yes Delta's customer service has been great on this model. So far I have only made some runners, sleds and basic cuts, no furniture… yet, but I agree with you, I love this saw and think it's an incredible saw for the money.
Your serial number should be on a sticker on the back panel of the saw near the dust collection port.
Eric


----------



## jacquesr

Thanks Eric!


----------



## Dlowe

Hello everyone,

Thank you to all for your very informative posts and advice.
The issue I have been facing is this:
In trying to align the blade to the miter slot, I used the stick/ruler on the miter gauge method to check blade alignment as suggested by thetinman.
On the first step where I am making a marked tooth just contact the stick, I notice that as I spin the blade, certain teeth contact the blade very much then others will not even touch it. I thought that the blade was warped since there were high and low points.

I then loosened the blade and rotated the blade 90deg on the arbor and retightened it… same problem but the high points that I initially marked on the blade were now 90deg away from the initial marks. I realized then that the high and low points were corresponding to a specific point on the arbor. The difference between high and low points is 0.012. I tried 3 other blades (all new) and I found the same issue.

When I slide the stick to the back of the blade I get the same problem with high and low points.
It seems to me that the problem might be the arbor plate. Maybe I'm missing something. I'd really appreciate anyone who could help me out.
Thanks guys!

DLowe


----------



## wormil

Sounds like a warped arbor plate. How tight are you cranking down on the nut?


----------



## EricLew

DLowe

I certainly am no expert, and will defer to the more experienced on this thread, but this sounds just like what I was going through when I was starting to make my adjustments. I also tried a new blade, which I was going to buy anyway, and that made no difference. I bought a digital gauge and when I zeroed out on the front tooth, I spun the blade back, and slid the gauge down the surface of the blade to the same tooth, now in the rear. The numbers would fluctuate during that travel. For a while I thought it was an arbor, flange, or nut issue. Things I did were…

Check the flange and nut for flatness
Run the blade at full height, and watch when it spins down
Run the saw with just the flange and nut, no blade, and watch when it spins down

If something is warped you should be able to see wobble as it spins down.

I didn't have any wobble, and concentrated on getting the specific blade tooth in line front to back. In all the videos, and articles I read about aligning the blade to the miter slot, they always talk about a specific tooth aligning front to back, they never talk about the intermediate teeth.

After I got my blade aligned to the miter slot, I ran several test cuts, when I checked them with a digital caliper, they are all within 0.002 front to back.

I don't think you mentioned what the reading was on the marked tooth front to back, also you said you are using a measuring stick, which is fine, but you seem to have a digital gauge, based on the .012 comment. if you do, I found it MUCH easier to use the digital gauge for the alignment. It was a great $30 investment. You also might be able to use it to check the run out on the arbor. Another thing that could contribute to that variance is the alternating left to right tooth pitch of the blade.

I hope some of this helps
Eric


----------



## wormil

> The numbers would fluctuate during that travel.
> - EricLew


That's normal. You only need to worry about the tooth front and back, not between, so you're good.


----------



## Dlowe

Thanks for the replies! 
First to answer Ricks question, I don't tighten the blade much. I get it just snug then maybe 1/8 turn.
Eric thanks for your advice. I will go ahead and align and then do some test cuts.
I'll report back with results.

DLowe


----------



## EricLew

The factory Zero Clearance & Dado Inserts, part no.s 36-501 & 36-502 are now available on Delta's & Lowe's Websites. I'm surprised by the ZCI, not really sure what I am looking at, the picture looks like the rear half of the insert has the same size opening as the regular throat plate, and the front half is enclosed, ready for a kerf cut ? That doesn't make sense to me, am I missing something ?









They also are not cheap, so I guess I will proceed with my plan of trying to make my own


----------



## JohnEinNJ

I'd guess the theory of just having the zci in the front half is that the chipout happens as the teeth cut down through the bottom face of the board. When the teeth cut up in the back, there's less likelihood of chipping. Tinman's original review has a nice design for a shop-made zci. I used phenolic instead of plywood.


----------



## jacquesr

I have ordered mine a few days ago.
Will keep you posted guys!


----------



## jacquesr

had an idea today…. I was looking fro a way to slightly adjust the fence rail without removing the square tubular guide…
All I needed is a "host neck" Allen key..
http://www.amazon.com/Bondhus-20599-0-050-8-Inch-Stubby/dp/B0006O4AII

Enjoy….


----------



## thelt

jacquesr, tell us how you did it with the stubby allen key.


----------



## thetinman

Yes Jacquesr, please do tell. I was not able to fit a small 90-degree key in the gap. I drilled holes thru the fence guide to accommodate the original wrench/key that came with the saw in order to mount the router table. Now, I was able to pull off a minor trick on my friends saw to adjust it a bit. I could fit a flathead screwdriver in just enough to lock the screw while turning the bolt underneath/behind. It worked fine but it's not one of the things you would recommend as a "valid" method.


----------



## thetinman

Eric,

The Delta ZC plate is designed like that to get as much air flow as possible to the shop vac hooked to the dust collection system. It's one of those unintentional consequences that always happen when Washington tries to save us from ourselves.

The plate appears to be a standard plate with a filler. Check out my projects if that is the case. It's already been invented.

Terry


----------



## wormil

I don't know what Washington has to do with it but the air flow makes sense-no air flow, no dust collection. Once I close in my (different) Delta saw, I might try that modification on my ZCIs.


----------



## jacquesr

Hello Terri,
I am honoured make a (tiny) contribution…
The "short neck" Hex keys I bought will fit… That's it.
Does make final adjustments easier….


----------



## thetinman

Jacquesr,

Thanks for the tip. I have to look at your link again. Sounds like a useful set of tools to have around.

Rick,

It does make sense. I have to try that on the inserts I made.

My reference to Washington was a poor attempt at joking about the "improvements" Washington mandates to help us live better lives in their image. In this case it is the dust collection required on all table saws. Not really a bad concept except for those who have only one 15 amp outlet (rental homes, etc.). Then they can't run the table saw and shop vac at the same time. Their only option is to drop the final vac hook-up and let the dust fall to the floor as in older saws. The dust chute plugs up quickly if you do not drop the final vac hook up.

Poor joke - sorry. Now eat your broccoli and build something


----------



## RedRodRon

I checked the manual on this saw and found that the riving knife specified thin-kerf saw blades only, with a maximum plate thickness of 1.8mm (.090"). My Forrest blade is specified at 2.28mm. I don't care to replace my good blades, so this is less attractive as a choice.


----------



## JohnEinNJ

Hey RedRodRon, I've been using a Forrest WWII in this saw for several months now without a problem. I didn't see that warning before, and just now went out and mic'ed the knife and my blade. They're almost identical in width, very close to 9/100ths. The WWII is a pretty popular blade. I wonder if it's actually dangerous. The blade that came with the saw is about 7/100ths. I'm going to check with Delta customer service and see what they have to say about this. I sure don't want to stop using my Forrest blade. It cuts beautifully.


----------



## EricLew

Dado Blades:

I'm in the market to pick up a dado set, I've read a couple of dozen threads, on this site and others, covering the endless debate about 6 in. vs. 8 in. How you shouldn't run an 8 in. on a saw under 3 HP, and the difference in available cut depth.

I'm not looking to rehash all of that, but I would like to know if any of my fellow 36-725 owners have run an 8 in. dado on this saw, and if so what your experience was. The owners manual only says don't use a dado blade larger than 8 in, and the newly released dado insert is made for 8 in. Since there is such a small difference in price between the two, I'm undecided on which to buy.

On a side note, I'm going to the Woodworking Show this weekend, I haven't gone in about 15 years. Really looking forward to it. I'm very lucky, it's only 3 miles from my house.

Eric


----------



## JohnEinNJ

I bought a barely used 8 inch Oshlun set off Craigslist, and haven't had any problems on the Delta. The most aggressive cut so far was probably about a half inch wide and a half inch deep, in red oak. I used the same set on my prior saw, an ancient 1 1/2 hp Craftsman, and made cuts 5/8 wide by an inch deep in redwood (a much softer wood).


----------



## thetinman

RedRonJon and JohnEinNJ,

The very great many people that I have talked to since my first posting shows that a very wide variety of blades are being used without issue. The only blades that have caused problems are the very thin kerf blades that are too narrow for the riving knife. Then the board being cut can hit and hang. I have talked to Delta in the past regarding the blade body thickness and they agree that there is no issue with the saw handling the blades. The only issue is the effectiveness of the thinner riving knife as compared to the blade and they recommend purchasing an appropriate riving knife. The point of the riving knife is to stop a cut from closing and binding on the back of the blade. This can cause the teeth to grab and lift the board. Like all manufacturers, Delta had to select one width for the stock riving knife. The one that comes with the saw is a compromise between standard blades (such as yours) and the newer wave of thin kerf blades.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is to just use the blades you like. Most saws did not have riving knives until recently and thin kerf blades were not available except at woodworking shops. I still have all my fingers. I run my new saw the same way I ran my old ones - as though there are no safety devices.

Terry


----------



## thetinman

Eric and JohnEinNJ,

I have both a 6 and 8-inch stacked dado set. I also have a 6-inch wobbler dado blade. OK, yes that was a dumb purchase and now it just sits in the bottom of a drawer. Hey, we all do dumb crap from time to time. I just pointed it out so that I would be the first to call me an idiot.

Like others, I have no issue with either the 6 or 8-inch dado sets. I cut dado joints typically to join shelves or cabinet parts. I don't, and can't imagine, cutting deep wide dado slots to join timber. I do not experience any difference in the saw's performance between the two. It has been my experience that those with big boy toys tell others they can't use nor do what their toys do. Give a man a chain saw and he'll tell you that you can't chop a tree with an axe.

Have fun and cut some dadoes.

Terry


----------



## EricLew

Thanks guys,

I didn't think there would be an issue with an 8 in. because…

If there was, Delta would recommend using a 6 in.

Of all the threads I have read on this subject I don't think anyone ever says they had an issue using an 8 in., just people recommending using a 6 in. because of the motor size.

I'm not going to do anything huge, probably never more than 3/4 wide and 1/2 deep, but want the extra depth option if I end up making a dado sled.

As always, thanks for the advice.
Eric


----------



## jacquesr

Well,
I got to set-up my dust collection idea over the weekend.

I used this:
http://www.rockler.com/tabletop-dust-fitting

That I attached inside the cabinet using simple wire.
Then I used some 90deg PVC pipe, and a 4 to 2 1/2 adapter as you can see in the picture.
All hooked up to my 1HP DC.

Well, almost no more dust on the floor.
I will see with more usage if I want to work on making the cabinet more airtight.


----------



## jlhoeft

I just bought the Harbor Freight 2hp dust collector. Right now I have it running to a 4"x10' hose reduced down to a 2.5"x10' hose and then connected to the Delta table saw. The reduction causes quite a loss of suction so I'd like to set up a 4" PVC system to run along the ceiling and down to each tool. Then I can have very short runs of 2.5" hose directly connected to each tool.


----------



## hamster

Just purchased my new 36-725 today at my local Lowes. After a friend and I manhandled all 220 pounds of it out of the car, into the house and down the basement, I opened the box only to find ALL of the hardware missing! Not a screw, nut or bolt to be found! Too late in the day to call Delta, but I will provide updates on the service I get.


----------



## Manny_E

Just join the forum. I have to say, for my 1st read and enjoyed thetinman's reviews and all the comments…

I been looking for a TS for about 4 months now. I don't have any formal woodworking training. I have done some woodwork just using a circular-saw and letting big box store cut the wood to size..

but i think going to get me one, as soon i find a good deal on the Delta…

I see that one has posted anything for the 4 months… perhaps everyone there nothing else to discuss…

anyway, thank for everyone…


----------



## EricLew

Welcome Hamster & Manny E

Hamster:
I have nothing but praise for Delta's customer service, If you call them I'm sure they will take care of your issue. You probably read about the missing parts issue I had higher up in the thread. I was missing 8 parts, 3 rails, 4 lower panels, and the anti-kickback pawls. When I called them I was missing so many parts, I was worried they would give me a hard time. They apologized and sent me the parts no questions asked, except my saw serial number  I didn't get overnight shipping like some others have, but they had to ship me 25 lbs of steel, 3000 miles, so it took a week, but I certainly understand why the shipped it ground.

What I never posted was, the lower panels they sent me were all blank, meaning I didn't have the delta decal on the front lower panel. I was disappointed, but I was so excited to have the parts and get going with the assembly, I didn't worry about it. Last week I called them, explained my story and asked if I could buy the decal. They said they would send me a new panel with the decal on it free of charge. It arrived yesterday, so again, I'm very happy.

Manny E:
If you want to buy a 36-725 I would recommend you don't wait too much longer. The 5000 series replaces the 36-725. I just checked and the 36-725 isn't even on Delta's website anymore. The 5000 has a few enhanced features, a 15 Amp motor, one piece fence rails, and one extra steel extension wing, nice enhancements but its almost double the price.

I love mine, (Last week I posted a project of a router table extension I made for it) and if you search the internet for Lowe's coupons, you can sometimes find 10% off coupons. I used one when I bought mine, but either way, the 36-725 is a great value

Eric


----------



## hamster

Just an update on Delta customer service. Called them at 9 am and had a tracking number for my hardware within 90 minutes. I was informed that the hardware packet for my 36-725 was no longer available but they were sending the pack for the newer 5000 series saw. Apparently it has all the 36-725 hardware plus hardware for the newer saw. Can't wait to get this machine up and running!


----------



## wormil

Doesn't make sense for them to discontinue this saw just as it's gaining traction. What knuckleheads.


----------



## thetinman

Eric and Rick,

I talked with Delta about the 36-5000 replacing this saw. The rep says this saw is still in production and he knows of no plans to discontinue it. Then why remove it from their website? The 5000 series, with it's 15 amp motor (not a great improvement), cast iron table extensions and single piece rails is to influence those who just want a bit more. It is to be sold at woodworking shops rather than big box stores. The single piece rails presents serious stocking problems at the big box stores.

Personally, the improvements vs the hefty price increase just does not make sense to me. The 5000 won't realistically do any more than the current saw but will definitely mandate electrical upgrades for the Harry Homeowner (majority) type of woodworker. That alone is a deal breaker for most buyers of this saw.

I agree with Rick. Delta took a bad rap for a while and now has a product that has virtually knocked out it's competition. How stupid would they be to simply kill the biggest market they are securing a lock on. Who runs that company - knucklehead engineers or a sound marketing team? Knuckleheads is a fine description if they cancel this saw, Rick.

The rep said he'd pass my comments on.

Terry


----------



## hamster

Got my hardware packet in the mail today and assembled the saw without any problems. Pretty straightforward, however when installing the fence rails I noted that the table extensions tend to sag a little. I clamped my 5 foot level to the table top and then clamped the wings to the level. Seemed like no matter what I did I could not get the last 1/32 of sag out of the right side. I thought for sure that the level would be stiff enough, but I think that clamping to the wings pulled the level down because when I unclamped, the wings were still sagging. Need the right side to be really level for wide ripping. Anyone have any ideas?

I checked the parallel runout and my saw was right on the money right out of the box. I don't have a dial indicator, but it seems to be less than 1/128" (.006) and that's just fine.

Going to enjoy this saw! R.I.P. the old Craftsman.


----------



## Lazyman

I had the same problem with my extensions sagging when I assembled this saw. My circa 1986 Delta motorized table saw manual suggested using masking tape to shim the extensions and that did the trick on my new saw. You basically just apply a strip of tape along the bottom of the wing before you attach it to the table. If that is too much try a thinner tape, if not enough try putting some on the table too.


----------



## Lazyman

One more thing… I just remembered that on one of the wings, I discovered the sag after I had everything assembled so I just loosened the bolts and pushed thick paper shims into the bottom of the gap to shim it up. The subscription cards that fall out of magazines worked well. I used Woodsmith cards so as not to insult my saw.


----------



## hamster

During assembly I was surprised to see that the stamped side panels on the 36-725 have OPEN corners, meaning the ends are not supported by the side attached to the saw. Without the support of the fence rail system these side panels sag nearly an inch, so shimming is not an option. If they were cast iron, shims would be the only way to go. I should probably disassemble the front rip fence guide and play with these panels some more to see if I can do better. I am thinking that I might have to support them from below and maybe give them a little "negative sag" before tightening the fence rail bolts to see if that will do the trick.


----------



## thetinman

Hamster,

I think you're overthinking this thing. Of course the side tables sag before they are attached to the front and rear rails. Don't worry about it. Just stick them on the cast iron table and move on with the assembly. It does not matter if you leave them off completely until after the rails are on. Just make sure your rails are mounted correctly and securely. Use the gauge that came with the saw to get the proper height from the saw table. Now, snugly but not tight, attach the side tables to the cast iron table and the rails. Use a straight edge to make them level with the cast iron table. They will automatically be the proper height to the rails without using the gauge. Tighten them up - bolt by bolt - making sure they stay level with the saw table.

The instructions are not the best. If the rails are correct then the side tables will be correct. Just don't bend and kink them trying to fiddle with them before the rails are on.

Hope this helps.

Terry


----------



## Lazyman

Hamster: And if Terry's advice doesn't help (he's definitely the resident expert on tuning this saw), you might have defective parts. My side tables were pretty level after I shimmed them even before I screwed them into the rails. I don't think they would have sagged even a quarter of an inch once they are screwed to the table even while they aren't yet supported by the rails. Even with the open corners mine are pretty rigid and square. And of course a picture is worth a thousand words. Post a picture if things still don't work out.


----------



## oldokie

Your work is extremely helpful. I am new to wood working and bought the 36-725 this past summer. Already did a lot of new projects in our home, all entry level stuff with wood left behind by the contractor. Lot's of oak.

I did a picture frame and noticed several saw marks on the cuts that were not there in earlier projects. I don't know what can cause a blade to go out of alignment.

I read your review and checked the blade for wobble. There did seem to be a small amount when the blade slowed down. So I tried your saw alignment test (mark a tooth, hold the ruler against the face of the mitre gauge and the blade, move to the back and rotate the blade back to the same tooth, does it touch?). The saw was aligned perfectly from front to back at that tooth. But when I continued turning the blade the other half of the blade did not touch. I could just fit a dollar bill between the ruler and the blade.

I changed blades and the same was true for a new blade.

Don't know if I need to try the alignment to fix it or just accept it. Do you have a recommendation?


----------



## thetinman

oldokie,

The reason for using the same tooth is that the teeth on a saw blade change left, right and straight. Blade designs vary. Sometimes a pattern of 4, 6 or whatever between offset teeth. Using another tooth does not give valuable information. From your description I believe your blade is probably in alignment. The only alignment issues I would recommend checking is blade vertical/square to the table and ensure the fence is aligned properly. A fence out of alignment is the same as a blade out of alignment.

Alignments aside, your description sounds very much like a dull/dirty blade or the wrong type of blade for the cut. Miters can pose blade selection problems because it is somewhere between a crosscut and a rip. You mentioned a lot of oak (probably red oak). Stock steel blades or minimal carbide don't last long on oak or particle board. Cutting soft wood like pine leaves sap residue. Check that the blade is clean.

Also note that a too fast feed rate can emulate a dull blade - and dull a blade quickly. Too slow you burn the wood. Too fast you get a bad cut that leaves more saw marks.

I can't afford expensive blades. I use Erwin Marples 50T combo and 22T rip. A simple test I do to check sharpness is to push the face of my thumbnail against the points of a couple teeth. It should bite and scratch my thumbnail with little pressure. There is still life in the blade if it only scratches a bit. I just use a new blade for finer projects. Let's face it - not all cuts matter.

Hope this info is useful to you. Good luck.

Terry


----------



## oldokie

Thank you very much for the reply and insights. I will take your advice. This is all totally new to me and your insights are helpful. I plan to build all the jigs you are recommending. Have decked out our 4 car garage with french cleats for the tools and equipment from two houses we consolidated. It is a lot of fun and very rewarding.


----------



## furniturefarmer

I purchased this saw and was extremely let down as soon as I ran hardwood through it. 
I sold it for 200.00.

The fence and portability were great. The power is a joke.


----------



## thetinman

I'm sorry you feel that way furnaturefarmer. In as much as you are a professional calling yourself a novice, perhaps it's best if you stick to the Powermatic in your shop rather than a Harry Homeowner saw.


----------



## ChipByrd

Hi Tinman, as others have said, you are very gracious with your time. I purchased this saw in the summer and the blade alignment was .003 out of the box. That's definitely good enough for me.

After several projects, I just completed some much-needed shop maintenance. Among other things, I checked my blade alignment. It is now off by thirteen thous. I am relatively new to woodworking so I could be doing something wrong, but I am using the A-line it kit. I placed the gauge on the blade and marked with a Sharpie. Then rotated the blade forward to make sure the guage was in the same spot. Consistently off by thirteen thous. I changed blades and got the same result.

I used the method described in Delta's PowerPoint to no avail. I slightly loosened the two screws and could barely nudge the motor away from me, but that compounded the problem. When I pull it forward to me it goes back to thirteen thous off.

I suspect that my proficiency with machinery is a bit lower than the average reader on this site. But I would really appreciate any advice you might offer.

Thank you for your time, your review and explanations were an immense help in assembling the saw.

Chip


----------



## thetinman

Chip,

I describe my complete alignment procedure in post #203 in the original review of the saw. I am in the process of writing the process as a stand alone procedure and will release it this week. I think the descriptions in post #203 will help. Here is a link to the original review.

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/3822


----------



## ChipByrd

Thanks a million. I will give that a shot tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## ChipByrd

Hello All,

I have something to share in regards to thetinman. He is an enabler. He wants you to believe that if you follow directions you will be able to set your saw up to maximize its benefits. By golly if he ain't right!

Thanks so much for your help. It took me about 45 minutes to tweek/test, tweek/test, but it finally came. After multiple tests I am at 1.5 to 2.5 thous.

I should reiterate what I said in my earlier post. I am not especially handy with machinery. Nonetheless, it worked out great. If your a mechanically challenged like me, you can probably do it as well. Just follow the directions.

Sir, if you are ever on the lovely west coast (of Lake Michigan), I hope you will give me the privege of buying you a cup of coffee.

Thanks,
Chip


----------



## EricLew

Good for you Chip, well done. I know just how you feel, I was there a few months ago.
Terry is the man !


----------



## thetinman

Chip,

Thanks for your kind words. I'm glad you were able to set your saw up and are enjoying it. Oh, if I'm ever around Lake Michigan I'd love to meet you. No coffee is necessary. I'll take a beer though.

Have fun and work safely,

Terry


----------



## mickeyg197

Terry- outstanding reviews and follow up responses. However, I must admit I have not read all of the comments/ resposes, so I hope this not not rehashing something that has already been asked/addressed. I looked at this saw the other day and was a little confused as to why there are steel extensions as opposed to one solid piece. I would imagine this reduces both cost and weight, but is this the sole reason for this? I have only been ruining good pieces of lumber for about a year, so my knowledge is admittedly limited.


----------



## thetinman

mickey,

Side table extensions are common on all saws regardless of price. The main saw table material does vary depending on the expected use of the saw. For example, a job site saw has to view reduced weight as a priority so the main table is typically aluminum. This Delta saw has cast iron for it's main table since it is designed for use in a workshop. The side extension tables are stamped/formed sheet steel for cost and shipping weight reductions. Cast iron tables are common on more expensive saws but can be purchased for this saw.

A cast iron main table is preferred because it does no sag or wear over time. Many feel that cast iron side tables are a necessity. They are rigid and can't be dented. But they are costly. The steel side tables on this saw work fine and for the price can't be beat. Set the saw up properly and don't pound on them. Owner's of this saw are just as happy as those who paid thousands more.

Enjoy your hobby and work safely.

Terry


----------



## AdamEff

Just wanted to say thanks to thetinman for his excellent review and setup guide. Also wanted to throw my two cents out there regarding this saw. I have had it for almost a year now. I had initially purchased a Ridgid R4512 and was having issues with the alignment when raising/lowering the blade. I noticed this Delta saw at Lowes and decided to return the Ridgid and give the Delta a try. Here are my thoughts.

Being my first real table saw, I lacked the knowledge to properly assemble the saw and I think I caused myself some problems in the process. First of all, I was using my best straight edge at the time, which was a 48" aluminum level, the check alignment of the rails and guide tubes. Turns out it was not really all that straight. This led me to believe my fence rails/tubes were aligned but they actually were not. Having recently purchased a more accurate straight edge I noticed my two front fence tubes were not quite right. The shorter tube was actually not quite square, which caused a bit of a dip where it connected to the larger tube on the surface of the guide tube that faces the table saw-the surface upon which the fence pads run. In turn, this was causing my fence to lock down at different angles depending on which guide tube the fence was securing against. This took me forever to figure out, and was causing me a LOT of frustration. I have used a dial indicator jig, which rides in my t-slot, to check the blade alignment and then flipped it to check my fence alignment. Well, when the left "foot pad" of the fence would slide off the longer tube and onto the shorter tube it would have about a 15 thou larger gap between it and the tube. Probably hard to visualize, and I'm probably not explaining it very well, but basically if the fence was riding on the shorter rail tube it would clamp down at a slightly different angle vs if the fence was riding on the larger rail tube. Due to Delta's support only being open while I am at work, I had to run home and call them on my lunch break. I work on a help desk and take a lot of calls, so I know what it's like to be on the other end of the phone. As such, I always try to be very polite and understanding when I have to contact any sort of support line. I feel this is worth noting because whenever I read about someone's horrible experience with a company's customer service, my first suspicion is usually that the person was either rude to the tech or did not adequately explain their problem. I was very courteous and would have taken pictures, measurements, etc if requested. I called and spent about 15 minutes on hold. When I did get through I could tell the tech, Steve, was not really understanding what I was telling him, and he seemed very adverse to the idea of sending out any parts. I offered to send him pictures to support my claims but he was not interested. He kept telling me to use a straight edge to make sure the tubes were aligned. I tried to explain that the smaller of the two tubes was not square and so the two tubes could not mate properly. A straight edge wasn't going to change that. He first suggested I would have to take it to the closest repair facility, which was over 2 hours away, since he could not verify what I was telling him-despite my offer to send pictures. When I expressed my dismay at having to disassemble the saw and drive a total of 8 hours for what was, to me, such an obvious problem, Steve made several comments that suggested I should expect this based on the fact that where I live (Grand Rapids, MI) is "out in the sticks". It's the 2nd biggest city in Michigan, so you'd think they would have a repair center a little closer. Eventually he caved in and said he would run my request up the ladder, as he was not authorized to just send parts out for no reason (!!!). I was told he would probably be able to send the small tube but never received any sort of confirmation or notification that it did actually ship. After a couple weeks, being impatient and also worried that the new tube piece would not resolve the issue, I bought a T2 fence with one-piece rails and tubes. No more fence alignment issues! I realize I just threw more money at Delta, but I figure I might be able to sell the original fence/rail assembly to recoup some of the cost. Of course, about 3 days after I installed the fence, I received the part from Delta. I'm not interested in disassembling and re-assembling the fence to see if it would fix the problem, but the tube at least appears to be square.

I have also replaced both of the stamped steel extension wings. I watched craigslist for about 6 months, hoping to find an old table saw from which I could cannibalize the cast iron wings. Alas, I didn't come across anything. What I ended up doing was replacing the right-side wing with a Sawstop cast iron wing and also replacing the left-side wing with an Excalibur cast iron wing ... the sawstop is dead flat, has a very nicely machined surface, and was not too difficult to attach. I did have to drill a few holes in the extension and in the saw's cast iron top as none of the pre-drilled holes aligned with the saw's holes. No problems there. For the Excalibur wing, I had a bit more trouble. I also had to drill holes in both the saw top and in the wing, but ran into a bit of a problem when trying to locate a good spot for the hole toward the rear of the saw. The problem is there is not really any room for a bolt in this area due to the support tube-it's just too close to the end of the cast iron table. And due to the Excalibur wing casting having a support rib in the same area, I had to locate this hole a bit further from the edge than I would have liked. Also, the extension wing was flat as best I could tell, but once it was bolted on to the top I noticed the front left corner of the saw's cast iron top was being "pulled" down out of flat. I racked my brain for about a week on this-I checked to see if perhaps I had located holes incorrectly and the bolt was passing through at a bit of an angle, but everything looked good. I had also drilled the holes a bit larger than the bolts, for a little wiggle room. The nuts/bolt heads were not being pushed by a support rib or anything like that… at any rate, this is likely not due to any fault of the saw.

My biggest complaint about this saw has to be in the dust collection area. I really can't stand the dust shroud as it is pretty difficult to get saw blades onto and off of the arbor with the shroud attached.. I had fabricated a bottom with a dust chute and hooked this up to a dust collector, and then removed the dust shroud. This worked alright, but I recently acquired a planer and a jointer which are located in my garage. My saw is located in my basement. I moved the dust collector into the garage. If I were smart I'd probably move the saw out into the garage as well, but I don't really have the room, nor the desire to disassemble and move the saw. For about a week I had been running the saw without any sort of dust collection, and the past two days I've had the saw just refuse to start back up on me in the middle of making sawdust. It makes a strange noise and spins the blade slowly but does not get to full speed. If I let it labor and spin slowly it will eventually trip the breaker. After the first time this happened, I unplugged the saw and took the cover off the motor. It was a little warm, and there was a bit of sawdust in there, so I blew it out and let it set for a while. A couple hours later it started back up again. Then, yesterday, it happened again. I thought maybe the motor was sucking in a lot of sawdust due to me not having any dust collection hooked up. I took the motor cover off again and blew it out, and there was a small amount of dust but nothing like the first time. Again, the motor felt warm, but not too hot. I took the cover off the belt compartment, and everything looked ok. I had only made one cut this time, and certainly would not say I was overworking the motor by any means. I had just ripped a 6" wide piece of 4/4 white oak, about 30" long, right down the middle. It took no more than 20-30 seconds. I was using a Freud 24 tooth thin kerf rip blade. It did not seem to be laboring at all during the cut. The only thing I could think of was the motor was overheating despite there not being too much dust in the motor. So I reattached the dust shroud (grumble) and ate dinner. When I came back, it still did not start up. I waited about another hour, and tried again. This time, it did start. I have no idea why it's doing this, and am not at all excited about the thought of having to contact Delta support again if the saw does in fact need to be serviced. If Steve-O was combative in regard to the small tube piece, I can only imagine what Delta would think of the saw with holes drilled in the cast iron top and the tab broken off the plastic motor housing assembly (very fragile tab, broke while I was unscrewing the cover). I guess it's nice that it has a 5 year warranty, and in their defense they have not refused any service yet, but I just don't get a very good feeling when I think about having to call them again. Not to mention trying to haul this thing out of my basement and having to travel 2 hours to have it serviced, if it were required.

Other annoyances:

The riving knife alignment procedure is a crap taco. I have it pretty well aligned but couldn't tell you exactly how I did it. Hard to explain but basically it's a matter of backing off two lock screws, adjusting two set screws, and then tightening the lock screws. I was not able to figure out exactly what screw controlled what alignment. Actually, I was not even 100% sure that I knew which screws were the "set" screws and which were the "lock" screws. The manual is unclear.
Slight arbor wobble. When I place a dial indicator on the arbor flange it registers as about 0.5-1 thou. It is very apparent when the blade stops spinning, though. I attempted to grind the arbor flange flat as described by Matthias Wandel but probably didn't grind enough off. I just wasn't too comfortable with the procedure, and it doesn't appear to be causing me too many issues, it's just something that bugs me.
The fence face is a pretty thin aluminum that flexes near the points where it is anchored to the fence tube. There are three bolts, whose heads slide in a channel on the back of the fence case. These bolts go through holes in the square tube fence "backbone" and then are secured by lock washers. I tried all manner of shimming, loosening, and tightening these bolts but could never get the fence face perfectly flat. I got it "good enough" (convex by about 3-5 thou) and it doesn't appear to be causing any issues so I'll live with it. For the record, the fence face that I received with the T2 fence (36-T30) is exactly the same. Pictures in other reviews of this fence system on this website looked like the rails were a light gray color, and one picture in particular (can't find link) appeared to show a fence face constructed of a thicker aluminum. However, the one I received (supposedly the "T3" or latest generation) had exactly the same fence. The only difference was the single-piece rails/tubes. Still worth it IMO.
The support structure (tubes)-just makes it more difficult to enclose the base in order to add a proper dust port as the base is not a "square". I was able to work around it, but I would prefer if it were just a plain old square. Just a preference, really.
Assembly. I know many people have said they were able to get their rails/guide tubes set properly, and that doing so is just a matter of patience and having the proper tools, but I will never waste my time with another split rail assembly. Also, the manual is really not worth much other than to suggest a general sequence in which the parts could likely be attached to each other. It appears most recommendations here actually do differ from what is described in the manual, and make more sense.
The stamped steel wings. Hate em. They're not flat. They do the trick though and at this price point you're not going to find cast iron wings.
The blade, but of course I wouldn't expect a top-notch blade to come with a saw… let alone one at this price point. I can't drop the scratch on a Forrest, but per thetinman's suggestions picked up one of the Irwin Marples combo blades and have been happy enough. For ripping, I noticed a huge improvement with the 24 tooth Freud rip blade. Plus, the flat kerf is very convenient for cutting flat-bottomed grooves.

Some things that I really do like and feel are worth mentioning:

The finish on the cast iron surface was a thing of beauty for me, although I only had the R4512 to compare to. The cast iron does appear to be a thinner casting, but it appears to be relatively flat, with only a slight dip near the throat. From what I've gathered this is common in these saws where the motor mounts to the underside of the table top. I tried to "shock" it back flat and also tried shimming where the table mounts to the supports but never got closer than ~10 thou.
I believe there is more room in front of the blade than on the R4512, but don't quote me on that. I do remember thinking it was a lot of room when I first got it.
Mobility-I like how easy it is to move the saw around (just make sure you're not moving it by the rails, which is the most convenient way to move it, but can knock things out of alignment). You can "sort of" level the saw with two adjustable feet, but as both of these feet are located on the same side of the saw, you're SOL if you want to get the top level and have a floor that slopes in more than one direction, as I do. But it's not terribly important that the top is perfectly level so long as your wood isn't sliding off it 
The motor seems to be adequate enough. I think the thickest thing I've ripped was some 6/4 QSWO, which really was not a problem at all with a 24 tooth rip blade. I've not dabbled in too many of the exotic species, but around Christmas I did cut some 4/4 Wenge, Mayan Teak, Padauk, and a couple other rando's that I can't recall. They were definitely harder than maple/oak, but I had no issues. I have not tried using a full-kerf blade, although I have been tempted to try to see if the perceived arbor wobble is just due to using thin kerf blades. I wonder if a full kerf blade might be a bit much for this motor though. I have used a 6" dado set on it and while the arbor is too short for some of the wider kerfs (can almost get to 3/4, but not quite) it did not appear to have a problem. I think maybe the motor overheated on me once, but I did have it running for longer than I probably should have. Of course, my motor might be headed south, and if that is the case then I take this all back 
Price-at the time, the saw was $30 less than it currently sells for. I imagine this will be the driving factor for many people who do end up purchasing this saw. I was comfortable with the price, especially with the financing options offered via the Lowes credit card. Also helped that I didn't have to explain a $500+ purchase to the wife, but was instead able to spread it across several months and fly below the radar 

Long story short-in this price range this is probably the best option for a new purchase. In my eyes it was either this or the Ridgid, mainly due to the fact that I could purchase them on a Home Depot/Lowes credit card and get 6-12 month financing. In hindsight, having spent just north of $1050 for the saw, replacement fence/rails, and cast iron wings (granted, one of them was the router wing, more expensive than a standard cast iron wing) I would have been better served buying a sub-$100 contractor saw off craigslist, and then saving up for something better.


----------



## ArmyTeam

Adam,

Thank you for the follow-up regarding this saw. Like you and the myriad others who have commented on this review, I am in the market for a new table saw. I love my Shopsmith Mark V 500 (handed down from my dad), as it has served me well over the past 15 years with moving around and having limited space (I am in the Army). However, as this will not be my "dream saw" (I eventually plan-hope to get a cabinet saw when I retire), the price point of the Ridgid and the Delta saws is about right. My question: given your experience with the Ridgid AND the Delta saws, and considering the "annoyances" you articulate above with the Delta, do you feel the Delta is the better choice? Your last paragraph implies that you do, but I just want to make sure. Bottom line: Terry's and your reviews are the most thorough (and entertaining) that I've found on either saw, but there are reviews (on you tube) for the Ridgid that RAVE about it. At this point, I'm torn between the two of them. Thanks for any thoughts


----------



## wormil

When you have mixed reviews for something, look for patterns, especially among the negative reviews. For example, when I was shopping ROS, the Milwaukee got mostly rave reviews but the negatives were all about the same problem; which tells me it has an inherent flaw. If the negative reviews are all over the place with no pattern then it could be poor quality control or just personal preferences. The Ridgid has a known blade alignment issue that spans model generations, and it shows up often. Chances are good that you will get a defective saw. No amount of positive reviews will ever change that fact.


----------



## ArmyTeam

Great point, Rick. And thank you for the response.

best,
Greg


----------



## thetinman

Thanks Rick. Good insight.

Terry


----------



## AdamEff

Greg,

I do feel the Delta is the better choice, although if my Ridgid had not been plagued with the alignment issue I wouldn't have purchased the Delta. Like Rick M mentioned, you're taking a bit of a gamble if you go with the Ridgid. You should be able to check for the alignment issue before you get the saw home and put together-all you need to do is raise and lower the arbor and look closely to see if the arbor moves from right to left as it is raised or lowered. I don't remember if this is possible to do without a blade, but having a blade on the arbor would probably make it easier to spot since you can watch above the table, and don't have to look inside the saw while you're trying to raise/lower the blade. I believe I read accounts of folks who explained the issue to the Home Depot employees and they were allowed to open the box and check for the issue before they even purchased. Worth noting if you are leaning toward the Ridgid but concerned you might get a dud.

As of this past weekend the Ridgid was $529 and the Delta was $599 at my local stores. I think Lowes offers a military discount (not sure if this would apply to you, just guessing based on your username/signature  ) so that could help bring the cost closer to the Ridgid. All things considered, I do think the Delta is worth the extra money.

I remember when first using the Delta that I thought its fence was quite a bit better than the Ridgid, although the specifics are escaping me now. It may have just been a fit/finish thing, or it might just be that the Delta fence stays locked better or is more stout. I do remember wishing the Delta fence had a built-in T-track like the Ridgid does, though. But if I'm honest I'm not sure I'd use it that often.

The Delta seemed a bit quieter than the Ridgid. Not a HUGE difference, but it was a bit less unpleasant to my ears. I don't wear hearing protection while using the table saw. I probably should, though.

You mentioned mobility is important to you so I felt I should mention that the Delta is quite easy to move around. I liked the Ridgid's built-in mobile base, but it did make quite a thud when it was dropped back down. I don't remember being concerned that the impact would cause any issues (other than a flattened toe if I weren't careful) but I did try to avoid moving it if the wife & baby were upstairs. The Delta seems to offer a more graceful method of lowering the saw after moving it.

One final thing I feel I need to mention-in my previous post I expressed concerns over the motor longevity due to it deciding not to power on in the middle of a couple projects. I had opened the motor cover and blew out the sawdust that had accumulated in there (likely in the past couple months since I recently moved my dust collector out into the garage for use w/my planer and jointer). The next day, I still ran into the problem with it not wanting to spin the blade after ripping a board and powering the saw off. I decided that although I do not like the blade shroud (makes changing blades quite a pain, and can easily get clogged if debris falls through the throat plate opening) I would reinstall it and see if that helped with the motor problems. I am fairly confident this has helped. Yesterday I hogged out many dados and rabbets with my 6" dado set in a 3/8" configuration and did not have any issues with the motor. I had the saw running for 10-15 minutes at a time over the course of several hours. I was using my shop vac hooked up to the dust shroud. While it doesn't catch all of the sawdust, it is likely helping to keep it out of the motor assembly.

I hope these observations help you in your quest to purchase your new saw, and that you make a lot of sawdust with whichever model you choose!


----------



## nkawtg

This is my first "real" table saw after going through several portables.
I've had it a week and I must say it's very good.
I took my time adjusting the rails and side tables and ended up with a saw that is finally true compared to my others.
It's quite.
It seems powerful enough.
I love the caster system.
Dust control isn't bad compared to some.

I also love that there is 27" between rails which happen to be an exact fit for my Bosch router table.

I didn't have time this weekend to make or buy a dado insert, so I made a dado sled for cutting half laps in redwood.
Cut like butter.


----------



## thetinman

nkawtg,

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I hope you're happy with the saw for many years to come.

Have fun and stay safe.

Terry


----------



## ArmyTeam

Adam (and Rick, nkawtg, and Terry),

I took the plunge on Sunday and bought the Delta table saw. Spent a casual afternoon putting her together and am thoroughly happy with my purchase. I have not yet had a chance to try her out (I still need to do some aligning and such), but am certain she will not disappoint. Just wanted to thank you all for your posts, your insights, and your suggestions… EXCEPTIONALLY helpful. I will keep my Shopsmith (handed down from Dad and which runs quite well) for my bandsaw and jointer, as well as a lathe. But to have a dedicated table saw is a dream come true Have a terrific and safe week and happy woodworking!

Best,
Greg


----------



## thetinman

Hey Army,

Thanks, good news. I hope all goes well for you and you get years of enjoyment from your new saw. I too had a Shopsmith handed down from my dad. Finally gave it to an Army friend of mine but I still miss it. Hang on to it as long as you can - unless you help out one of our best.

You own a Shopsmith so you are familiar with their graphite. The best lube for the bevel gears on your new saw (in my opinion of course). Send me a PM if your have any problems or questions. Be glad to help.

Terry


----------



## Bobthebuilder2

so i just bought one of these, as i was pulling it out of the box, 2 of the metal plates that you attach to the sides had slide around in the box and were scratched a little, not a big deal.

But then i pulled the legs out, and the tube that connects the legs together down the middle, one of them at the end of the tube was bent inword, so that the other leg wouldn't slide into it….....should i attempt to bend that out, or just call delta for a new one? Im a 'tiny' bit worried that if i don't bent it right it might become a tiny pivot point and cause my table to vibrate/tilt ect.

i also noticed spots of rust on the bottom of my table, anyone else notice this when they put theirs together? wasn't just one spot, im seeing like 3 or 4 area's. kind of makes me wonder if this is a really old one thats been sitting in the store a while, anyway to check? Looked like my box had been retaped as well…......had to have this thing delivered an hour away


----------



## AdamEff

Hi Bob,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I'm not aware of a way to find out how long the store had the saw before they sent it to you, but you might check the box to see if there is any mention of a manufacture date. Might be on the label with the serial number as well (can't remember for sure). Won't really tell you when the store got it though. In my experience purchasing machinery it's usually pretty obvious when something was previously opened and returned-bags of screws opened or missing, styrofoam packaging damaged or missing, parts missing, protective oil having been removed from cast iron parts, box being taped where it was cut open, etc.. but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a dud. I've ended up keeping a couple tools that I'm pretty sure were returned because as far as I could tell they still worked just fine. It bugged me at first but no tool stays completely free of scratches or blemishes. Not if it gets used, anyway. I was really fussy about the cast iron top on my saw at first, both with scratches and rust spots, but I've gotten over it. As long as it's flat and things slide across it smoothly it's good enough for me. Obviously having said that if it just doesn't feel right to you by all means return it. You just have to decide if the hassle of transporting it back to the store (and transporting the replacement back home) is worth the peace of mind and the time. As a new dad who works 50+ hours a week I've learned to live with a lot of things that, in my previous life as a somewhat OCD bachelor, I never would have considered. 

Regarding the tube-with the saw upside down, and both of the tubes removed from the table saw "body", are you able to first connect the two tubes and then He-Man the four tube legs into their mating holes on the table saw body? Or is it bent really bad? I don't think the screw that connects these two tube assemblies together actually eliminates all play/slop from the connection. I believe the weight of the saw sort of acts to press the two tubes parts down and away from each other a bit and pretty much eliminates any wiggling around of the tube parts. Now that isn't to say that your part should be shaped the way it is, I don't recall thinking "hmm, this part looks bent" when putting together the tubes, but in my mind the bend would have to be quite significant to prevent the tubes from properly supporting the table saw or to introduce any sort of vibrating or tilting. But maybe I'm not picturing it right.

I did notice a bit of rust on the bottom of my cast iron top-just a few very small spots here and there. I elected to leave them there, and last I checked they hadn't gotten any larger. If you ask me, the important thing is the top of the cast iron top, and not the bottom. It's not really even the end of the world if there is already rust on the top, so long as it's not "pitting" and becoming a hole. Simply sitting around in a box shouldn't cause the rust, my guess is the black paint on the underside of the cast iron top was just not applied properly to those spots. The top ships with a coat of protective oil/grease to keep the cast iron surface from oxidizing and the bottom should be pretty free of this coating, but I think the paint serves the same purpose. At any rate if it were mine and the rust spots were large enough I might just spray a bit of WD-40 on a green scotch brite pad and rub the rust away. This would probably take a bit of the surrounding paint with it. Once the rust is removed I'd wipe the spot down with a bit of mineral spirits and then wipe dry with a dry towel. Let it dry (10 minutes or so should be all it takes) and then apply some paste wax to the spot. You could probably also paint the spot if you wanted it to match the surrounding paint, but to be honest I've no idea what type of paint would be best here. Probably something like the very small tins of rustoleum enamel (the kind that specifically mention they cover rust, I think they might mention farm machinery as well on the label).

I know how you feel about not wanting to try to return the saw. If I were you I would try to assemble the tube supports, if any major bending is required or if it just doesn't feel right then certainly give Delta a call. They might give you some grief over shipping a part as large as the support tube but it's certainly worth a shot. While the tech I spoke with certainly seemed like he did not want to ship me any parts, in the end I did get the parts I had requested. The fact is that the saw is covered by their warranty and they should stand behind it. Worst case scenario you are still within your return period. You've got some options. It's a bummer that you're not making sawdust already but that will come soon enough-keep your eyes on the prize! Please let us know how it turns out for you.


----------



## Bobthebuilder2

yah with the tube legs sitting on the floor, its the cross member that connects them that is bent. One of them goes inside the other, and it just had to be the one that it goes into that is bent "inward" right at the edge, prolly try to bend it


----------



## Bobthebuilder2

http://s17.postimg.org/z9s32nrun/20150424_001.jpg
http://s17.postimg.org/hfwl1d8sf/20150424_002.jpg
http://s17.postimg.org/4ykvh37b3/20150424_003.jpg
http://s17.postimg.org/7hbmevzcv/20150424_004.jpg
http://s17.postimg.org/vjsg9rfzz/20150424_005.jpg
http://s17.postimg.org/c5rma2ojj/20150424_006.jpg
http://s17.postimg.org/bhirr4ptr/20150424_007.jpg
http://s17.postimg.org/4w61rd9z3/20150424_008.jpg
http://s17.postimg.org/mwf8vr267/20150424_009.jpg
http://s17.postimg.org/w5hf5vb27/20150424_010.jpg

not sure why it cut off half the image, anywhere there are the direct links

well this is what it looks like before and after, not the prettiest but better than driving 2 hours to return it, or spending an hour on a phone to get a replacement. Interestingly there is a bunch of rust inside the tubes too…..well i just hope this patch job doesn't cause me problems somehow, at the corner of the bend, after i bent it back i had a big burr on the bottom, had to file that off.


----------



## wormil

Take it back.


----------



## Bobthebuilder2

you think it'll cause me problems? or just too much rust? It all looks like surface rust but it is annoying to see that already, hard to get to inside a tube. But will the next one be any better?

It cost me $100 to get it delivered, well they told me $60 over the phone then changed it to $100 and refunded the difference when i complained for it changing, prob why it ended up dented lol.

feel free to convince me to return it, it does upset me but im just not completely sure what ill be gaining. Maybe i should just call delta and get a new leg. Either way i might have trouble at this point now that ive unbent it and painted it a bit


----------



## thetinman

Bob,

Ditto for Rick M's vote. This appears to be a returned saw or a repackaged floor model. I think the things you've found and noted can be worked around. But, it would be a shame to find more damage and misfits during assembly. I'd scream and holler and tell them to deliver another one and take this one back at the same time. You paid for delivery - make them live up to their end of the deal.

Just my 2 cents.

Terry


----------



## AdamEff

After taking a look at the pictures I would recommend returning it as well. You might be able to get them to refund the cost of delivery, perhaps even refund a part of your purchase, if you explain your situation and the condition of the saw as received. Be polite, but firm. If you return it, as opposed to an exchange, would they also have to refund the delivery charge? If that's the case, I'm sure they'd do whatever they could to avoid that.


----------



## Bobthebuilder2

holly crap, i looked inside all the other tubes and they are like 1000x worse, the ones that go into the saw, man its bad. There's dark brown rust, and white spots ontop of it that look like mold/corrosion.

Its just sheet metal with no paint on it, i have a hunch all of them are like this, anyone bored and want to pull theirs apart to look? Might be a good idea so u can throw some paint in there anyway, these legs are going to rust from the inside out, and then one day a leg is just going to break off and you won't even see it coming….............why in the world didn't they paint the inside. Bet this is why they were on sale, damit.


----------



## Bobthebuilder2

http://s22.postimg.org/6ib84ftld/20150426_001.jpg
http://s22.postimg.org/h2l5n0y35/20150426_002.jpg
http://s22.postimg.org/rzhvy1vgx/20150426_003.jpg
http://s22.postimg.org/tv99my9ox/20150426_004.jpg
http://s22.postimg.org/uuzkinoup/20150426_005.jpg
http://s22.postimg.org/x4notexsh/20150426_006.jpg
http://s22.postimg.org/jqalxdr4h/20150426_007.jpg
http://s22.postimg.org/mj3thergx/20150426_008.jpg
http://s22.postimg.org/5z64v626p/20150426_009.jpg
http://s22.postimg.org/qusf6eydt/20150426_010.jpg

check out the rust!


----------



## wormil

Just call them up and send it back. You're getting yourself too worked up.


----------



## Bobthebuilder2

i was just bored and out in the garage, i thought these pictures would be really useful for other people with this saw. AKA i really think u guys who have bought one should pull them apart and spray some paint in those tubes.

If the legs rust from the inside out, there's a small chance (in my mind) a leg might break off when u put some heavy board on for a cut, then end up with a table on you while the saw is on. Im obviously talking years and years down the road for that to happen. For a brand new saw, thats 'alot' of rust. Problem is, im not sure how easy or if its even possible to get paint down a tube that far and u really need to sand it first


----------



## Lazyman

Frankly Bob, I would have them come and get it. The bent parts mean that something happened to it somewhere along the way and with the rust on top of that, who knows what else could go wrong. While mine seems to be a decent saw, there are compromises that bug me enough that I am already thinking that a few years from now, I will probably want a better saw. Is it a good saw? Yes, but small imperfections can make an adequate design annoying. If you had bought it used and/or at a reduced price it might be fine but with a $100 delivery premium, I'd make them come and get it. You paid for a new saw, you should get one.

My 2 cents.


----------



## AdamEff

I discovered the cause of my motor issues… the Klixon motor protection switch. Had been cutting some plywood for about an hour and a half and after shutting the saw off to prepare for the next cut the motor decided it wasn't going to start back up. It was spinning slowly but not ramping up to full speed. Broke out the multimeter and eliminated the switch, second item on the list was the Klixon motor protector. Had to cut the wires to the switch (they're soldered onto the switch) and splice them together, the motor starts up just fine like this. I understand it's not wise to use the saw with no thermal overload protector, so I just ordered one from this site ... Given my previous experience with Delta support I'm not even going to try to ask them to send me the Klixon switch. Looking at their parts diagram, the whole motor is one big part. If anything they would likely tell me to bring the saw into a service center, and I'll gladly pay the $27.50 + shipping instead of doing that…

From what I gather extension cords can contribute to the death of these switches. I think that might be what happened here as I had it hooked up to a 25' cord. It was a 14g cord, which I thought was sufficient since the saw's power cord is 16g, but I've since read that 12g is really what you want to use. Apparently the cords can get hot and cause the amp draw of the motor to increase to the point where the thermal switch kicks in. At any rate I replaced the saw's cord with a 15' appliance cord (16g) so now it's long enough that I can avoid having to use an extension cord.

Bob-thanks for the warning. I took a peek inside the support tubes on my saw and while it's not a perfect paint job I saw very little rust inside there.


----------



## thetinman

Adam,

Thanks for the info. I must say that I am not sure you have solved your problem. You are correct that an undersized extension cord can kill the overload switch as well as tax the motor as the available current is diminished by line resistance. The voltage will appear to be the same. It is the available current at the motor that is the key. The motor tries to draw what it needs which results in the wire getting warm. The line resistance increases with the temp and the problem increases. Everyone has their own work process. In your post you mention turning the saw off between cuts. Startup current is higher than running current. Cutting current is higher than simply running current but not as high as startup.

15 ft. of 16 ga. cord is about equivalent to 25 ft of 14 ga. cord. Appliance cord simply has the conductors side by side with higher voltage rated jacketing. It carries no more power that any other 16 ga cord. I think you are safe but right on the edge considering that machinery/appliances should be run at 80% of the rated wiring/fuses. I recommend that a trip to your local friendly hardware man and pick up 10 ft of 12 ga cord, a male and a female plug and build your own extension cord for shop use. I keep 2 6-footers and one 10-footer in the shop.

Good luck and have fun.

Terry


----------



## AdamEff

Thanks Terry, that is helpful information. It sounds like it should be a little easier on the motor to let it run between cuts as opposed to constantly powering the saw off and back on. I'll keep that in mind going forward! I do tend to leave the saw running between cuts unless the workpiece is cumbersome enough to worry about accidentally hitting the blade while moving it around. I had wondered whether leaving it running could be contributing to heat buildup, though.

Regarding the cord-also insightful information, thank you. I had considered building a 12g extension cable just as you had mentioned and will put it on my to-do list. I think my thought process at the time was that one cord, even a lighter gauge one, would be better than a power cord and a longer-than-necessary extension cord. 15' gives me just a few extra feet of slack. I suppose that's why you have a couple shorter cables in your arsenal as well. And I figured if the original power cord (and it looks like the internal motor wiring, as well) was 16g that a 14g or 12g cable might not give much added benefit, although now that I've typed that out it seems foolish. I guess it was based off advice I was given in the past about not mixing different wire thicknesses in residential wiring, but I understand this is not necessarily the same situation.

Thanks again! I appreciate the time you spend sharing your thoughts and helping out new guys like me.


----------



## thetinman

You're welcome Adam. Regarding mixing of wire sizes, never go from a smaller gauge into a larger. Larger into smaller is not an issue. The 16 ga on the saw is fine because of the short length. Adding more feet to it with an extension cord can become an issue. This is where you bump up the size of the extension to cover the distance (distance = increased resistance) - then you are going larger into smaller.


----------



## JohnEinNJ

Terry, what is the danger of putting a 12g extension cord into a 15 amp (14g) outlet? All it can do is carry more current, which will trip the 15 amp breaker. I would think going from 14g down to a 16g would risk overheating the cord, because it can't carry as much current as the 14g in the wall. (EDIT - or did you mean the gauge number when you said smaller gauge to larger? I still think it's not the whole story. I think what you have to look at is a combination of the expected draw and the length of the cord.)


----------



## thetinman

John,

Thanks for the question to help clarify my comments. My and Adam's comments were in reference to extension cords only. You are correct that the gauge in the wall on a 15 amp circuit is 14. So using a 12 ga extension appears to be a violation of what I said about never going from smaller gauge to larger. It is not because the conversation is about extension cords only.

You are also correct about distance being a big factor. As stated, distance = higher resistance in any given gauge cord. That is why you have to bump up the gauge when you increase the distance. Larger diameter = less resistance. The larger gauge compensates for the increased distance.

The 16 ga lead wire that comes on the saw (mine has 14) is fine because it is short. But extending this wire with more 16 ga can lead to high resistance, heat build up and a lugging motor. The saw operates at 13 amps. Electrical codes generally recommend operating at 80% of the rated circuit. That would be 12 amps in an ideal world. We all know that 13 amps is not an issue. Most people run this saw on 15 amp circuits. It is because all of your comments are correct that I recommend that 12 ga extension cords - as short as possible - be used. Most people do not need a 25 foot extension cord in their garage. A trip to Ace hardware gets the parts to make a good extension cord cheaper than you can buy one that is too long.

Thanks again John for helping to clarify.

Terry


----------



## AdamEff

Terry,

That makes perfect sense. I am going to take your advice tomorrow and make a better extension cord. I ran my saw for a bit today without the overload switch hooked up (probably a bad idea) and while it ran fine for a couple hours, it eventually refused to start up, like before. I took the motor cover off and felt around and it was warm, but not what I would consider too warm. Tested the capacitors and they both look good (capacitance and resistance) and that's as far as I got today. I'll mess around with it some more, just wanted to thank you again for your help!


----------



## AdamEff

Upon closer inspection, my centrifugal switch was a bit sticky and was not clicking closed when the saw was powered off. I used a q-tip and a couple small squirts of WD40 to clean the motor arbor shaft while holding the switch open. Granted, it's 2 am so my testing was not very thorough but I do remember clicking the switch a little bit the other day when I came to the conclusion that the Klixon switch was the culprit… it was probably stuck open then too. I was getting resistance on the Klixon so maybe I had two things going on. Oh well… learning experience.


----------



## Zen1300

I have read both the original and updated reviews. Thanks for the time you put into this to provide good information. Based on these reviews and the comments as well as other information, I think this is the saw for me. It may not be "the one saw for the rest of my life," but it should meet my needs.

My other choice was the 4512, but with all the blade alignment issues, I didn't feel like taking a chance on the table saw lottery. I even asked Ridgid about the problem and if it had been fixed. They responded…

"There are no known problems effecting RIDGID table saw model R4512 as a whole, with earlier production or recent production units, for there to be some type of fix developed for."

To not even acknowledge the issue pretty much excluded that option.

As for the Delta, the issues seem workable and I expect with all saws there are issues to be worked out.

I have read some reviews that state the Delta Customer service is sketchy and concerns over the availability of parts in the future. I'm ok with taking that chance.

I'll be going to get this saw this weekend. I look forward to adding my own thoughts on the saw soon!


----------



## EricLew

Welcome aboard. Lowe's just recently lowered the price $50.00 too


----------



## Brent12

I have this saw and it was a huge upgrade from my Kobalt job site saw. I do have a question, has anyone attempted to mount this saw into a cabinet? I have seen a lot of other brands retrofitted into a tablesaw staion or island. I am curious if there would be issues doing that with this saw. I saw a video on FWW of a man who made a large island in his garage that housed the saw, a bndsaw, his planer, a router table and dust collector in a large well layed out cabinet/island with lots of storage and I am seriousely thinking about doing this in my two car garage, but I wasnt sure if taking this saw off of its legs would have any ill consequence.


----------



## thelt

> I have this saw and it was a huge upgrade from my Kobalt job site saw. I do have a question, has anyone attempted to mount this saw into a cabinet? I have seen a lot of other brands retrofitted into a tablesaw staion or island. I am curious if there would be issues doing that with this saw. I saw a video on FWW of a man who made a large island in his garage that housed the saw, a bndsaw, his planer, a router table and dust collector in a large well layed out cabinet/island with lots of storage and I am seriousely thinking about doing this in my two car garage, but I wasnt sure if taking this saw off of its legs would have any ill consequence.
> 
> - Brent12


I have been thinking the same thing. I am curious to know if this can be done.


----------



## thetinman

Brent, Thelt

Yes it can be done and I have helped a friend build his into a cabinet saw. He too wanted his planer and router mounted and extra storage. Everything has a trade off. He rarely cuts with the miter gauge to the right so he mounted his planer on the right. He cuts long stock on his sliding miter saw and sheet stock with a circle saw. Yes we thought about cam and screw lifts to raise/lower the planner (heavy) but he decided no. His shop - his choice. A left or right side mounted router is not normally an issue because you can mount the router to a plexi plate and simply lift it out while cutting and drop it back in (still with the same settings) when needed. If he had more space he could have mounted the planner past the back of the saw with a deeper (front to back) cabinet. Us mortals with limited space rarely have enough room to build a huge central machine cabinet that can not be moved.

The only consideration for this saw was the leg mounting design. Most saws simply have a square/rectangular mini cabinet base that sits on the leg assembly. This saw has corner tubes for the round legs. After much great and elaborate thinking we went back to KISS. Our first KISS thought was to use short pieces of metal fence posts but realized that was silly. A simple shelf, just like with any other saw was the KISS answer. An angle bracket bolted to each leg tube worked great. The horizontal part of the angle bracket then screwed down to the shelf. Simple. The saw wants to be stable. It don't care how you do it or what leg/support system you use. The leg tubes, designed to carry the weight, now just sit on a shelf. The saw is happy. My buddy is happy.

We put two 4" lawnmower wheels on the right side of the cabinet. Now he can lift on the left side and roll it around if he has to like a wheelbarrow. Again KISS. Although I must confess that the simple wheel system was great at first. It got heavy quickly when he added stuff to the cabinet. He learned to keep the heavy stuff on the right and lighter things on the left. Still a bit heavy but manageable.

Hope this helps.

Terry


----------



## Mediomanyo

Tinman - first off, thanks for the astoundingly complete resource you've provided for this saw. Just picked mine up from the blue store yesterday. BTW - it IS possible to get it from the garage to the basement without help. While I don't recommend anyone follow my example, I opened the box, pulled out all of the parts but the saw (weight reduction strategy) itself, popped the packing bits back in place & then (mostly by sliding) maneuvered it up the steps to the foyer & then slid it down the steps to the basement (yours truly was BELOW the saw; the other way would have been certain disaster). Also did all assembly (including tip-up) completely solo. Just saying it can be done, whether that is wise or not. I'm not saying I'm impatient (or excited to use my new toy), but I guess I don't need to.

Now - on to business: it appears I got much less lucky than you did on the split front fence guide. Mine (both parts) were twisted. By this I mean warped in such a way that when I placed them on the top surface of the table they wobbled corner to corner. As I feared, when I assembled them & screwed them to the front rail, the joint in the middle has a twist. Right side bottom & left side top both protrude more than the perfectly aligned joint in the center. This makes the fence (which I was able to bring within .002" to the right miter slot) off by more than .025 when the left edge of the fence crosses the split. I tried REALLY hard to hold them true, but the distortion of the tubes forbade it. Even after sharing a few colorful metaphors with it after the third attempt. I felt a little better, but still had the same problem. Any suggestions? I was tempted to run my angle grinder over it, but if that doesn't solve the problem, I'm certain Delta wouldn't want to offer replacements for the "modified" parts. Any insights/suggestions greatly appreciated.


----------



## jacquesr

@Mediomanyo: contact Delta support.
Fear not. They will take great care of you.
Accuracy is everything. Let us know how it goes. Good luck.


----------



## thetinman

Mediomanyo,

Glad to hear about your new toy but sorry to hear about the twisted rails. Boy, that's a first! They are just stock angle iron painted black. How the devil do they get twisted? Well, no matter how - Jacquesr it absolutely right - call Delta. They have had an excellent track record with support for this saw. They'll ship you new parts. Most of the time they don't ask for the defective parts back. What would they want with trash? But, you never know and it is good that you didn't grind them.

Good luck and please keep us posted. Information about product support (or a lack of) is of as much value as information about the product itself.

Terry


----------



## blistersonmyfingers

Hey guys. Took me a week or two to get to this but wanted to add another experience on buying this saw. Like many here I bought this in good part because of tinman's great reviews. And in thanks for that and in hopes of helping somebody else out thought it would be good to sign up here and post up my experience and tips on the matter….

Bottom line - I had a brutal misery of a time putting this saw together, and I am VERY mechanical (far far better w/ metal things than wood things…). Frankly had I not, much like a few other posters, unboxed the thing in the garage and painfully hauled the parts into the basement, the whole thing would have gone back to blueborg in pieces with a hefty helping of choice language at one of several points. But given I was so far into it, I worked my way out. Took me ridiculously close to 2 days to get it all setup including false starts and wasted time. I made as many notes as I could during the process although some PTSD rage probably made me miss a few things and there was that one time I woke up with blood on my shirt with no memory of the last 24hrs… I might have done something unthinkable to a Delta product engineer, I'm not sure…

In order of the manual…

*Stand*

*Sidepanel *For the batch that my model (fairly fresh off blueborg floor according to staff) came from, the side panels DO NOT FIT. Period. THEY WILL NEVER FIT without drilling. Wasted a lot of time putting legs in/out trying to squeeze - if the side panels are bolted on the legs won't fit the top of the saw etc. etc. Front and rear panels fit fine. My advice - ditch the side panels and dont bother. Some day I might toss them on the drill press to move holes inward but in meantime they are in a pile and I don't care. Wasted a lot of time with this. Others have mentioned similar problem so seems to be a bad batch type thing common for chinese goods. 
*Leg bolts* One broke on mild tightening and the others looked like they'd be happy to do the same. Replaced w/ HW store improvements. Should add some washers on those while you're at it. 
*General Finish * I did have a number of minor dings and scrapes in the paint in the legs. Will grab something to touch those up eventually but everything else became such a nightmare that this long receded in my list of quibbles w/ the thing. There's a tiny couple corrosion spots down in one of the miter slots. Not big deal and should not impair use at all but just sign of quality control issues.

*Extension Wings*

*Warpage* As noted by others. The stamped extensions are virtually impossible to really get very square. They aren't very true. Realize this and move in.
*Mounting Holes* Common theme - the holes didn't line up very well and in the end I ended up having a drill handy to gently open up holes to help me get things as true as possible. I wish I had realized this about 4hrs earlier as I had multiple rounds of trying to align things and finding to get the last bolt or two in everything else would have to go off-square or whatever. Get a drill. If the bolts aren't going in smoothly and freely and in a place that squares the piece you are mounting, open the hole up. Be ready to do this A LOT on both side tables AND the rails.

*Front and Rear Rails*

*Mounting Holes * What did I just say about holes? There were a number of these that were WELL OFF. If you don't open the holes you may just get the bolts started and the rail 'ok' but then as you tighten the bolts no amount of gorilla-ing on your part will get those rails to stay put because the bolts and holes will want to self center. Good news is once I embraced opening up the holes, aligning actually became the straightforward process it should have been all along. Bad news - took me hours and uncountable false starts and re-dis-assemblies to figure this out. (yes I am stupid). 
*Finish/fit * Cut ends of the split rail on mine were crappy and rough and this impeded assembly. It also made for rough spot for the fence sliding over it when assembled. If you don't get a nice clean butt-up on the parts, be sure to file these. In fact for best post-assembly fence-sliding - I suggest the tiniest hint of a chamfer on the inside edge anyway so its' impossible for the fence 'slider feet' to hang up on the joint later. In fact for all the long-goods here - all the rail parts - you might want to lightly file all the ends for cleanup before even starting assembly unless somehow you lucked out and got a miraculous perfect set. 
* Alignment * Yeah. Misery. Opening the holes was absolutely totally necessary otherwise my rails would have been very borked. But another issue for me was what the ACTUAL optimal height for the fence VS what I thought the Delta alignment bracket indicated. I had it all aligned to the little gauge perfectly, finally was OK with everything, then slapped the fence on all eggsided, and waaa-waaa-waaa the fence was riding on the table at the back and dragging and not really what I expected. Now at the front you can adjust fence feet but at the rear you need the rail to be at the right spot. Bottom line, use the alignment guide to ensure left/right for both rails is the same, but at the same time toss the fence on (bolts snugged to support it but not fully tight yet) to be sure it rides at the right height. If it needs to go up/down then figure out what micro-point on the alignment gauge it should be, then you can pencil or marker that up (i.e top of alignment slot or bottom of alignment slot or whatever) to make it more precise.

*Throat Plate*
Mine had sloppy glue on it from mounting chrome pawl-plate on, that required some tedious cleanup.

*Bevel Stops*

*Stop Presets * Way way off out of the box despite the "properly adjusted as shipped!" declaration. Enough said. 
*Indicator Decal * The degree indicator down on the saw base was equally off. Way way beyond the little adustability in the reticule, I had to gently carefully pop the decal off and re apply it and then use the reticule adjustment to fine tune it. Another needless PITA from sloppy factory work.

*Riving Knife Alignment*
Two options here. One is you actually align the riving knife. The other is that you remove the blade guard, start up the saw, raise the blade height to the top, then firmly plunge your face directly into the blade. The latter will be more painless, trust me. Actually the same is true for leveling the rails and table. But if you are committed to adjusting the riving knife, here's what you need to know. 

*Ignore anything ever written anywhere about what the screws do!* The manual is so deranged and departed from reality that it verges on qualifying for a Hugo award (i.e. science fiction literature prize). Ignore everything about A/B/C and D. Even some of the other posts online about how this works are confused. There is no top/bottom forward back side to side top angle etc. etc. discrete adjustments the way some writeups make it sound. There are 2 screws that clamp it down. There are the oval grooves in the assembly that let it move around on those 2 screws. 90% of the alignment is sliding it around on those grooves. There are 2 other set screws that push up against the square flat surface to set vertical angle only. 
My advice is as follows. Look at the geometry of the thing first and understand how it works. Once you do, some of the tricky bits will be clear. 
*The two inside set screws set the riving knife vertical angle and should be set to roughly the same height* You need those to be set such that when the outer screws are tightened the whole thing is vertically completely straight to the sawblade. Period. First use these to get the riving knife totally vertically parallel with the sawblade when the outer screws are tightened. When those are tightened it will pull the RK over a bit so you have to have it out just slightly so it pulls in to perfection as they are tightened up. Don't worry about left/right alignment or f/r angular alignment at this point. Just get that thing completely perfectly vertically aligned to the blade. If you have set your blade perfect 90 to the table just get the RK square to the table for now! As to the 2 screws themselves and tweaking front or rear one… yes if one is out a little more than the other it sorta could let you angle the RK forward or backward a bit HOWEVER given the metal geometry of the alignment bracket this by definition is going to twist and create more weirdness in the bracket and IME it throws off the rest of the alignment COMPLETELY if you try to use those 2 screws deferentially as you are basically trying to firmly bolt down a 4 legged stool with one shorter (or longer) leg. Therefore I STRONGLY suggest you try to get the RK straight parallel to the sawblade with both these screws set almost identically. This should be MUCH easier than floating around those screws trying to figure out how they affect the other adjustments. Once its vertical don't touch these again if you don't have to!
*The two outer screws just let you slide the RK around in the longer grooves and align L/R and F/R at same time* Now that you know when you tighten these screws the RK will be perfectly vertical, all that remains is to slide it around to a spot where it's F/R parallel w/ the blade, and centered on the blade. This is really 90% of the alignment. Yes it will take a few tighten-tweak-retighten tries but it should not be that hard. Don't touch the other screws if at all possible and this should go pretty smoothly. If you have properly meditated on the geometry you will realize that if you want to go left you may need to loosen the clamping screws a bit more to make room as it's basically a wedge shaped assembly (caused by the wedging action of the vertical screws) that has to move left and therefore needs more room. And inversely if you move it right it will get looser. Of course using straight edges off the sawblade etc is all required here. OK yes because of the clamping-a-triangle thing your vertical adjust could go a teensy out when you get your final F/R/center adjustment in, so maybe you need a final tweak on those now but it should be minor and fairly easy ie "ok F/R and centered now just microtweak the vertical and tighten and done". 
*Yes the RK is wider than the sawblade body* Yeah. Issac Asimov says in the manual that the RK should be inside the blade body on both sides. Hard to do when the saw is shipped w/ a RK (~2.38mm) that is wider than the sawblade provided (~1.86mm between faces). Of course the kerf from the teeth will be wider than the RK so in reality this is completely fine. But as you align it you need to use your straight edge just to confirm that the RK is centered - same margin of wider on each L/R side, outside of the sawblade body…

Lastly on the RK - personally I believe from looking at the design that at some point there may have been an intention to have a L/R setscrew that sat in the horizontal plane and rested on a machined face down below the other mounting surface. THere's a fat planed area and perhaps that's what the "Screw D" reference was about. Speculation.

*Rip Fence*

*Horizontal Alignment* Finally good news - rip fence was super square/true right out of the box! Slapped on the rails once height was all square and copacetic and it was so true it was really great. That said… there is one problem. 
*Vertical Alignment* SO much for the good news. My fence itself is not a perfect square box section - it's ever so slightly trapezoidal. In otherwords the width between right/left faces at top is narrower than at the bottom. Therefore I can never vertically square the fence. After not being able to figure out why I can't square the fence vertically I confirmed w/ my digital calipers - narrower top than bottom. Crap. Now for basic ripping, will this matter much for me? Probably not. But any clever end work like say an end-dados with vertical workpieces is straight out. May also screw up my use of fence-jigs and whatnot. Haven't decided what to do about this one yet…

*Blade Alignment*
Pretty good actually. Didn't take a measure but it wasn't bad then I gave it a wee tweak without having to go to the "full loosen up" level and it's even better now.

*Closing thoughts*

Now that the saw is together it's been great. Haven't done a ton with it but some rips and crosscuts, made a miter fence extension, is nice and quiet vs the contractor-portable I had almost bought (actually had in the basement but never unboxed…) and is really enjoyable to use, as long as I don't start to have PTSD flashbacks from the assembly process…

One last thing I would say is my OCD wanting everything to be perfect probably cause a lot of pain for me. Some joeschmoe who throws it together and doesn't pay much attention or care about alignment probably would have been fine and been making sawdust in no time and wouldn't give a poo. But I just cant roll that way which tends to be a problem…

And would I recommend it to someone else? Probably mostly "NO FORKING WAY" but I will qualify that… if it was a friend/family member who could understand the whole deal above, and really wanted a 'step up saw' from a portable contractor saw, and was in for accepting the hassles and challenges, and if I was going to help them do the setup, then probably yes I would… However mostly? Mostly I would say no don't even think about bothering if all you want is a nice saw you can unbox and use.

HTH…


----------



## wormil

Blisters, you only have one post, how can this be an update?


----------



## blistersonmyfingers

> Blisters, you only have one post, how can this be an update?


uh, ok #pedanticmuch… but to eggsplain i meant 'update' in the context of 'a recent purchase of this item' or 'update this thread with yet another experience', given there hadn't been a post in a few months but I edited it out if it bothers you. man if that bugged you can't imagine how many other editorial corrections I'm gonna git!


----------



## wormil

> uh, ok #pedanticmuch… but to eggsplain i meant update in the context of a recent purchase of this item or update this thread with yet another experience , given there hadn t been a post in a few months but I edited it out if it bothers you. man if that bugged you can t imagine how many other editorial corrections I m gonna git!
> 
> - blistersonmyfingers


Sorry if I didn't consider your feelings and all before asking a question but now I know you have delicate temperament I'll be sure to go gently next time. The reason I asked is that you wouldn't be the first person to make a 2nd account because they forgot the password to their first account. Not that I'm imply *you* could ever do that, being a special snowflake and all but other people who are not you might do that.


----------



## blistersonmyfingers

I think i responded in a fairly friendly way to your complaint about a single word. No need for this to be unfriendly.


----------



## espo7034

I am looking into to stepping up my table saw and came across this review. First, I am definitely a novice. I would consider myself pretty handy, but far from a woodworker. Just last month I moved past your typical DIY projects like installing flooring, new vanities, light fixtures, etc. to a more complicated project. I built a large built in entertainment cabinet and hutch with lighting. It came out great, but it really exposed my lack of skill and I realized that my current table saw is junk. It is a craftsman table saw. I can't recall the model number, but most likely what everyone has been calling a "job site" saw.

I would like to take on similar projects in the future (e.g. a built in pantry, two window seats, etc.). Nothing major, but definitely projects where cuts being accurate and square matter. I individual is selling the Delta 36-723 on Craigs List in my area. I believe he is asking two much. My two questions are:

What do all of you more experienced individuals believe is a far price for this saw used?
Would you ever buy a used table saw?


----------



## mickeyg197

espo-

I would also consider myself a novice. Based on the vast amount of knowledge and opinions on this site, I purchased this saw after giving the Ridgid a very very brief trial. It is more than enough for my needs and is pretty easy to align. The only change that I have made is making some ZC inserts and getting an Incra miter gauge. 
Personally, I would be hesitant to buy a power tool used because there is really no way to tell what has happened with it in the past. I would be even more hesitant if the person selling it "didn't know " where the safety attachments were if they aren't attached. Or the manual. Although they are not always accurate, there is no Carfax for a tool. This is only my opinion and the guys on here with MUCH more experience and knowledge than I will probably have a different opinion. Then again, they would know better what to look for when looking at a used tool.

I have a good friend who is a mechanic that has gone with me to look at vehicles before. Unfortunately, I don't have any friends, close or otherwise, who are woodworkers. Good luck with your decision.


----------



## Lazyman

Espo,

Might be too late but here are my 2 cents. It is pretty hard to give you much advice on the appropriate price for any used saw without seeing it myself. Because this saw is less that $600 new at Lowes. It would have to be at least $200 less for me personally to justify any risk. For any less than that, I would rather go get a new one and have a full warranty and support from Delta. It will be difficult to tell whether the person selling the saw has unresolved issues that could have been handled through warranty support until after you get it home and start cutting.

If you are going to take a look at it here are the basic things that I would check.
1) He has all of the parts, especially blade guards and riving knife. 
2) Is the table saw insert flat-take it off, turn it upside down on the table and make sure it doesn't rock. Do the same thing with the riving knife-it should be perfectly flat.
2b) while you have insert off look inside to make sure its not too grimy. Sawdust is normal but there should no rust and the dust should easily brush off. 
3) Take an accurate ruler with you and check the squareness of the blade to the miter slot. Measure the distance of a tooth to the slot at the front, rotate it to the back and measure the distance of the same tooth again. This can usually be fixed but if it is way off, there could be something going on (or the guy just didn't bother to correct it). If it needs adjusting, subtract something from the price for your time at least. 
4) Take a small square with you and make sure that the fence is square to the table on both sides. This can be adjusted of course but both sides of the fence should be the same. Lock the fence in place an make sure it locks and that it is parallel to the miter slot. This too can be adjusted but if it isn't I would wonder why. 
5) Make sure that there is no significant rust anywhere on the saw. The top doesn't have to be shiney but if you can feel the rust cut the price in half or walk away. 
6) Obviously turn on the saw and make sure that there is not grinding or any noise that just do not sound right. Table saws are loud but shouldn't sound like any metal on metal, etc. And if he will let you, take along a 3/4" piece of wood and either run it through the saw or ask him to and make sure that it doesn't bog down. Check to make sure that the dust collection duct on the back is still in place.

Another factor is whether he is throwing in any accessories. You'll need to assess whether they are worth having and what you would pay to get them (or what you could get for them on Craig's list).

Hopefully this helps. There is a ton of good information in this thread so it wouldn't hurt to read through some of the problems that others had so you can look for those problems as well.

Let us know if you take the plunge. I have had mine for almost a year and a half and it has served me well. Would I like a better saw? Of course but this saw has been able to do everything I needed it to.


----------



## blistersonmyfingers

Some excellent tips above from lazyman.

The only things I would add would be….

1 - Agree w/ all the comments about 'if he can't find accessories etc. its a bad sign'. However on the other paw, if the guy is meticulous and has set up the saw really well, that could be actually an advantage to having to sort it out out-of-the-box yourself given that this saw is so fussy to get really right. If he's just done a basic 'unbox and put together' then it's a wash if you want to get it setup perfectly yourself - while some pre-assembly might be helpful, if you need to drill clearance out some of the fence rail holes or other tweaks to get the saw true, then it's 50/50 whether it's in parts or all assembled.  I guess for a n00b probably taking down a pre-assembled saw to re-true it might be easier in a way since you can see exactly where it's good/bad and how the parts go together but for myself with experience I'd rather start w/ the parts in the box as I know exactly where to watch out for stuff and would immediately know what needs filing and drilling before it goes together.

2 - But if indeed the saw was well put together and aligned… I wouldn't over-value the Delta warranty / factory support too much if the saw is clean and like new although otherwise I do agree w/ the price comparison stuff above… Delta isn't a huge amount of help w/ these things unless it's really DOA or you have a really factory flawed part, and if he's set it up and been running it we assume all the parts are there and are fine. I might pay more than $200 but if it got anywhere near $600 then there'd better be some compensating 'upsides' like extra accessories or the guy is a fanatical machinist who set it up perfectly and improved some of the terrible factory flaws.

I will add that after my early post above I have used mine a fair bit now and it has been pretty great. It's just a shame that the setup is so incredibly time consuming due to poor manufacturing tolerances and design quirks that would have been easy and not expensive to improve.

After running some material and projects I noticed a slight bit of back-side saw blade marks so I did re-align the saw blade again and got it really good, now my cuts are super clean. Got an assortment of decent blades for it and am enjoying that, using the Delta provided blade as an 'MDF / scrap' blade, although it's surprisingly "OK" itself for how cheap the face finish is on it and how cheap the slots look (does have sizable carbides on it for a cheap blade).

The fence non-square-ness has bitten me a couple of times (i.e. per my note above it's slightly trapezoidal in cross-section) as if a large piece even slightly rides up off the table on the fence end that will mar the cuts true-ness but I have taken as long as that doesn't happen the saw cuts very very clean and true, and I have taken to using vertical featherboards at the fence to hold pieces down when/where possible or useful. I'd be interested to hear if anybody else has checked the "box" trueness of their fence and found the same problem.

Otherwise as I say… pretty happy…


----------



## thetinman

Good comments from all. Now if I may add my 2-cents. I agree with all about an in-depth inspection. I'd like to submit my basic 1st glance points that instantly let me decide to look deeper or walk away. I'll start with the assumption that all parts are there and the basic setup was done reasonably well. The biggest problem with any used tool is the owner's maintenance, knowledge and skill.

Start by giving the saw a visual overview. Does everything look clean, straight and square. He's selling something - I expect him to want top dollar so I expect him to present it well.

Now, simple things to check to help reveal his skills and use of the saw. Is the fence locked down? If so, why? The fence should never be left locked down unless you're coming back to finish a job. If it is locked down, turn the handle to unlock it. Is it super tight? A sure sign of an insecure newbie stressing his equipment.

Now unlock the angle and height adjustment knobs. Are they super tight? More signs of unnecessary stress and wear on the stops/locks.

Turn the angle wheel slightly and then back. Was there movement off the 90-degree stop? Newbies complain that the 45 and 90 stops aren't accurate. They never are on this priced saw. These are guides and the proper use is to "feel" the stop - and then you stop. This is much like using a micrometer or calipers - tight is not right. Over tightening is a sure sign of more improper use.

Lift the blade guard (if installed) and pull/push the blade left and right. None to very slight movement can be considered normal. Any more side-to-side movement (clunking) indicates a bad arbor.

All of the advice given so far is sound. I just wanted to express my "first shot" peaks that tell me to walk away or really kick the price down.

Good luck.

Terry

For Blisters: Just about all fences suffer from this. A board bolted on the fence does wonders to cure the inherent problem. That's why all your Biesemeyer (sp?) fences, etc. have wooden/Murphy boards added. Even better, building a left/right fence face is a great project. The horizontal cross board can be made to hold your push sticks, etc.


----------



## Lazyman

I think that one of the problems with the fence on this saw is that they over tighten the bolts at the factory that hold on the faces. The left side of my fence isn't perfect but its not bad. The right side is not only not parallel (or perpendicular to the table) but it is also concave. I never use the right side without adding a sacrificial or auxiliary fence and I often use one on the left side as well, especially when I need very accurate cuts. One of these days, I may try to fix that by making replacement faces. One reason I haven't already is that I am afraid I might make the left side worse.

Another annoyance is that the scale on the fence rail on my saw is not accurate so I rarely use it. The first 12 inches or so is nearly perfect but by the time you get to about 18 inches is it off by 1/16th and by 24, it is off by 1/8th. I guess they made it out of stretchable plastic and they overstretched it when putting it on. A new one is pretty cheap but I've gotten used to not relying on it when accurate cuts are needed so it might as well not even be there.


----------



## blistersonmyfingers

Thanks for the suggest guys. I am not a tablesaw pro so while I've been making some accessories already (pusher plates, miter extension…) I hadn't thought about modding the fence face - probably a good idea. I thought about trying to disassemble and see if some shimming or other modification could work but was a little afeared of taking it apart and really blowing the alignments on it but I admit I haven't really looked at the construction.

I happen to have some extra MDF scraps lying around, and a couple bags of biscuits, might make a quick and dirty "H" fence out of that this weekend and see how it works out - if I like it I can then make a nicer one from birch ply and incorporate some T-slots and whatnot…


----------



## Lazyman

Blisters, 
One of the most useful accessories I have made for my saw is a crosscut sled. If you make it carefully it adds an incredible amount of precision to 90 degree cross cuts. It also allows me to safely make cross cuts I would never attempt with my miter gauge even with an extension for both really short and extra long boards. There are a bunch of examples on Lumberjocks but also checkout William Ng's YouTube video on how to make it so that it cuts perfect 90 degree crosscuts.


----------



## cursteve

I really like your review of the Delta Table Saw 36-725 but your review refers to many parts on the table saw and to the real novice we have no idea where or what the part is. Would you consider using a photo or two displayed when referring to table saw parts? Thank you.


----------



## Lazyman

> I really like your review of the Delta Table Saw 36-725 but your review refers to many parts on the table saw and to the real novice we have no idea where or what the part is. Would you consider using a photo or two displayed when referring to table saw parts? Thank you.
> 
> - cursteve


Cursteve, Welcome to lumberjocks and hopefully a new obsession with woodworking. You have come to the right website, just maybe not the right forum topic for your needs. Your request could be a little difficult to address at this point in the context of this topic. I am sure that if you have specific questions related to this particular saw, you will be able to get an answer, including pictures, here; otherwise, it may be better to look elsewhere for help. Here are a few suggestions on where to look.

1) Search the Lumberjocks forums for specific questions you may have. There is a good chance someone has already asked the questions you have.

2) Post your own questions in the forum section of LJ. For example if you want someone to help you understand some of the parts of a tablesaw, explain a technique or help with a particular problem, you will find some really helpful people on this site.

3) Search the internet for introductions to a table saw. This search will yield several results that include how to select a table saw for a beginner. A couple that stood out when I did a quick searh are:
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/article/0,,783876,00.html -Looks like a pretty good basic intro, including terminology

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/106771/tablesaw-techniques -This one requires a membership but it looks like you can register for a free trial before you commit to a paid subscription.

You may also find some good videos on Youtube.

4) Look for a local woodworkers club or maker space for some experienced woodworkers who generally enjoy helping beginners get a good and safe start. Some of these may have table saws you can use to try out some specific models.

5) Check out some of the local classes that may be available in your area. Places like Woodcraft and Rockler usually have hands on classrooms in their stores and they may have a beginner class that will help get you started.

You might also find that writing about your beginner experiences in the LJ blog will get you some help as well. Good luck and we look forward to you posting your first project on the site.


----------



## thetinman

Cursteve,

I include many pics when I post a project. I tried to write comprehensive reviews which make them quite long in themselves. The terms I used are familiar to those who have other saws, are familiar with saws or bought this saw and have the owner's manual. With respect, it appears that your confusion is because you are neither of these people. But you must have an interest in breaking into a new hobby because you posted.

What Lazyman is trying to encourage you to do in this regard - and in all things really - is to look up things you are new to. Definitions and descriptions abound on the net. Many sites shun people new to the hobby. This is a fantastic site because Newbies are always welcomed and encouraged to ask questions. That being said, all things do have limits. Reading about a particular tool (or any subject) and knowing nothing about the terms used within the context becomes your responsibility to research.

Please learn as much as you can. Understand as much as you can. Only then can you really make comparisons leading to the correct choices for you

Terry


----------



## johnnywyoming

Just bought a new house with a garage. And after 12 years of living in a 45 year old, mold, mildew and mouse infested mobile home I am experiencing culture shock!! Have never had a garage like this before with lots of space. So, naturally, I am beginning to figure out what I need to fill it up with woodworking tools. I am not a seasoned woodworker by any means. Most of my table saw experience comes in the last twelve years at the museum where I work building new exhibit cases and walls (a lot of them, and working with more experienced volunteers).. I have been doing a lot of research and reading about saws and have narrowed it down to the Rigid R4512, R4513, or the new Delta 36-725. I have shied away from the Delta until reading this great review as the museum's saw is an older Delta 36-978 (or 979 not sure which), and it has always had fence lockdown problems where the back end of the fence moves unless held down on both ends while locking. It also has a faulty power switch problem that comes and goes.

My initial projects are shelving in the new garage, a workbench, roll around workbench and a mantle for the fireplace. Other than that my wife has "a list". I also make my own frames for my photography and my wife's artwork. Have used the Delta at work to rip for frames and a Jorgensen hand-powered miter for the 45s. I had planned to buy a chop saw along with the table saw to cut angles but reading in this forum I am beginning to see that I can cut the angles just as well or easier on the table saw.

I thought that the R4513 would be good as it is smaller and less expensive but if I do not need a chop saw then I can spend a bit more on the table saw. I can pick up the R4512 at Home Depot in Sheridan, WY but I have to travel to Billings, MT or Rapid City, SD for a Delta… not a big deal. And, no sales tax in Montana.

So what do you all think about my possible choices? Today I am leaning more towards the Delta but does a table saw like it do a good job on frames and can I crosscut a 2×6 x 12 easily??

I have read here that a person could outgrow the smaller R4513 after a while but the bigger saw should cover all future needs….

Really happy to have found this forum and web site!


----------



## blistersonmyfingers

I'm not a pro, and, I am going to build a cross-cut sled as mentioned above, but if you are going to do significant miters (like lots of picture frames), especially with small dimension stock or parts, I would def invest in the miter saw (you don't want a straight-chop saw, strictly speaking that only cuts 90's, although the term is used pretty loosely I will grant…) I wouldn't personally want to have to make a dozen picture frames of varying sizes on a table saw myself (12 frames = 96 miter cuts), that'd be much easier and more pleasant on a miter.

Seems like the common "one tool" solution to your situation BITD for most homeowners was a radial arm saw - as long as you never cut anything really big, it basically is a compound miter saw with an extra big table and ability to rotate the blade around and do some ripping… But those seem to be out of favor these days - I believe because of the amount of slop that all that 'universality' gives you, and because of the setup time required and precision questions each time you change the job type… ("oops gotta rip something for another project before I finish my miters for these frames… gotta change setup then hope I can get it back right…")

So you'll get much more precision and ease of use (not constantly doing setup stuff…) out of a dedicated miter/chop + table saw setup. If you really can only swing one tool for budget or space reasons, then maybe a radial would be an option…


----------



## thetinman

Johnny,

Both saws are competent. As in all things, both have issues. I am well familiar with the Rigid because a couple of my friends have them. I should say one still has - the other upgraded to the Delta. I say "upgraded" because I do feel the Delta is an upgrade from the Rigid.

The Rigid is notorious for it's' blade alignment problems. This is due to the swing arbor design vs the Delta vertical riser tubes. You align the Rigid blade at 90-degrees and it loses alignment when you lower or angle the blade. Unless you spend a lot of money on precision milling you just can't expect the blade to stay in alignment on a swing arm. I personally do not call this a defect but simply an inherent conscious design compromise. As such it is also a conscious buying compromise.

The fence on the Delta is just plain superior to the Rigid. Yes, people have stated imperfections with the Delta aluminum sleeve but this is easily overcome with a board bolted on. There are many complaints about the Rigid fence being just like the old Delta you mentioned. In deference to the old Delta workhorse at the museum, you just can't beat this fence on any saw in this price category. There is a common belief that the table saw is the centerpiece of a shop and the fence IS the saw.

Speaking of the old Delta, it can be readjusted unless it is really worn out. But there is also an old-timer's trick. The front of the fence -where the locking handle is- has (or had) pads on it. I'm not guaranteeing anything mind you - but you can add a couple of those rubber squares found on the inside of drawer fronts. The old-timers swore by a thing called Shoe Goo (Ace hardware) to stick them on. It sticks to anything and just does not come off. Caution - consider being looked at as a fool if you mention it to your boss.

You mentioned that you are considering buying a chop saw and that you may not need one with a good table saw. I agree that you don't "need" a chop saw with a good table saw but you will probably get one anyway. More on that shorty. The Delta lead in to the blade is large for this type of saw. It allows you to crosscut 12" wide boards easily (with a fence extension or sled). And yes it will cut thick lumber. I'm a Harry Homeowner and use all of my tools for everything. I've cut 4X4's with no issues. Use a course blade and go slow. Plan on sanding the blade marks.

Now back to a chop saw. As Blisters said, don't buy one - ever. You are building up your shop and you have described the kinds of things you want to make. A chop saw is too limited. It just goes up and down. Buy a compound sliding miter saw instead - one that will crosscut a 12" boards and 4" thick boards. You will find that you will be using your table saw and your sliding miter saw in concert with each other and dramatically reduce setups and readjustments. Don't be sucked in by name brands at a higher price. I have a Delta sliding miter ($299) and a Kobalt from Lowes ($149). A couple of my buddies have Dewalts ($350+). The Kobalt is over 3 years old and cuts just as well as the others - from finish molding to 4X4's.

Lastly, a radial arm is an option, but have you priced them? WOW! And, once again Blisters is right - they just don't cut it for ripping accurately and take a lot of setup time. From experience they are great for crosscuts and miters. They wack out of alignment quickly when you rip with them. There is a lot of sideways leverage force on that arm.


----------



## Lazyman

EDIT: I was obviously typing while the others were…l

JohnnyW, Make sure that you check out some reviews of the trunnion problems for the R4512. It might not be too noticeable to someone just starting out but this can be a killer for making precise cuts. I don't have any experience with it myself but that issue is one reason I went with the Delta from Lowes instead.

When you ask about cutting 2×6x12, I assume that you are talking about 12 foot long? If so, personally, I don't like to cross cut boards longer than about 5' long on my table saw and if they are angle cuts, even shorter (that doesn't mean that I never do). It just too hard to make a precise cut because the weight of the board tends to try to tip to one side or the other if it is not centered or just makes it hard to keep it square with the miter gauge as you move it across the saw. I usually whip out my handheld circular saw (I don't have a chop saw) to make them more manageable before I cut them to final size on the table saw. Same thing when breaking down 4×8 sheets of plywood. Ripping long boards is a little easier as long as you have support on the back side so that it doesn't tip as the center of gravity moves beyond the blade and causes it to want to tip on the backside of the cut.

Welcome to LJ BTW, you have certainly come to the right website for advice. I learn something every time I come here. I would read through all of the available reviews on any of the tools you are interested in. If you want even broader feedback than this thread will provide, you can post your questions to the forum section.


----------



## johnnywyoming

Wow, thanks for the great responses. Yeah, I thought that a compound saw would be the way to go but wasn't sure… now I will have to go to the tool forum and see what type of compound saws people are using. I think that I will buy the Delta anyway and just grin and bear the extra expense. This is a great place. Hopefully, some day I will know enough to contribute advice here!


----------



## lumberjuniorvarsity

Tinman,

Thank you for everything! I got this saw earlier in the week and I'm just about done fine-tuning it. I've had a few setbacks, but your reviews have helped immensely. While trying to make the fence perpendicular to the table I found that my fence is warped. When I check with a square at the front of the saw the top of the fence has a gap of maybe 1/32 when the bottom is flush, but in the back of the saw the top of the fence is flush with the square and the bottom has a small gap - and this is after quite a bit of modification of the slotted set screws. The left side of the fence is also concave. The right side of the fence appears "leans" toward the blade, but I can't say if it's consistent front to back. After reading some of blistersonmyfingers posts I realize that it may just be a problem with the fence itself, but I'm wondering if misalignment of the rails could in some way translate into warping (i.e. rails are on different planes, so when clamped down the fence "twists" to mate to each rail)? I think I did a pretty good job of aligning the rails on my third and half attempt, so I don't think that's it, but I'm trying to rule out any possible user error. Like you have said before, I may need to build a fence face/frame.

Blisters - I don't have a dial caliper so I can't confirm that my fence is identical to yours, but it certainly isn't a true square.

Again, thank you tinman!

-Brent


----------



## hamster

Brent, I had to really tweak the rails on my saw, especially the back ones to get them straight and parallel to the table top. I also had to work very carefully to get the extensions not to sag. In the process I also managed to get the fence to run smoothly across the joint between the right table extension and the table itself. The gauges that Delta provides work, but you have to be very careful to get a precise alignment. After fooling with it for several hours and removing and replacing the back guides a couple of times I finally got the fence to be the same distance from the table over its entire travel. Now my 18 inch thin rule will not pass under the fence and the fence moves smoothly.
Also, the fence is not tall enough by itself to be a good support for holding anything perpendicular to the table. You need to make a taller fence extension and shim it so it is perpendicular to the table.

Just remember, we are woodworkers, not precision machinists. Do not try to exceed 1/32" tolerances unless it is super critical. Wood is not stable enough to be reliably worked to closer tolerances.


----------



## nkdenton

Great review that was helpful in my decision to purchase a 36-725. I can't add much to the original review but for anyone looking at this saw I can say the following:
- Assembly - I recommend looking at the videos on YouTube of people putting this saw together BEFORE you start yours. It will save some time - the videos are easy to find so I'm not listing the links here. The instructions in 2018 are apparently better than they were in 2014.
- Location of the single swivel wheel - several people have said they don't like the wheel mounted on the longer side because they plan to put a router table there. I have a very small shop and putting the wheel on the other side makes it very hard to swing the table around where I need it. You get a better turning radius if you install it as indicated in the instructions (right side if facing the table at the front), router table or not.
- The two piece rail takes some tweaking for the left side. The right side went in fine and I can get very good square cuts using the fence on the right side of the blade, but I have alignment issues on the left side of the blade - the fence is not square yet, so I have been making all my cuts on the right side of the blade. I have loosened the left rail a couple of times and improved the alignment, and with 1-2 more go-rounds, I will likely get it right. I recommend not tightening the left rail too much as part of your "final assembly" steps and testing your fence squareness earlier rather than later. I would have done this before now but I had to get going on a project and cutting on the right side of the blade is fine for now.
- Throat plate - the one that comes is okay. I can't see spending the $$ for a Delta dado plate insert. I took 1/8" plywood and made a dado plate and a zero-clearance insert. With careful tracing and some time on a sander, you can get a DIY wooden insert done in 20-30 minutes. You will either need to do some tapers where the adjustment screws are or lower the screws completely in order for a 1/8" insert to sit flat. Your choice.
- 230/240V conversion - there is no "rewiring" necessary. I talked to the Delta electrical tech - you just remove the cover plates as indicated in the instructions and flip the switch from 120V to 240V. No rewiring is necessary inside the motor compartment to the switch. The power switch will work fine as a 120V or 240V switch. Technically speaking, you are *supposed* to replace the power lead from the switch to the outlet with a 3-conductor 240V cord and plug. Speaking as an engineer with a more than basic understanding of electrical theory, any wire that is rated for 13 amps at 120V is more than heavy enough to carry 6.5 amps at 240V - in fact, it is oversized and more than safe. So, it is your choice whether to purchase a new power cable lead from the switch to the power outlet. I didn't want to mess with the switch at all so I simply cut off the 120V three prong plug and replaced it with a 240V plug I bought at Lowes when I bought the saw. Perfectly safe and everything runs fine now for 6 weeks with no issues.

I love the saw and have run it about 15-18 hours so far with no problems.


----------



## MJClark

I am going to bring this one back up because my wife hinted that I might be getting a new table saw as a birthday/christmas present and she noticed me looking at this one, even to the point where I caught her snapping a picture of it.

For those of you who have this one, do you still like it. What are some of the issues you have had? I hear that some of the tops warped, and I was wondering how many of you have experienced this?

My only concern is the 13 amp vs the 15 amp. But otherwise it exactly what I would want that is still within my price range.


----------



## EricLew

I have had mine for 4 years, and still love it. I have had no issues at all.


----------



## Lazyman

Mine is 4 years old as well and no issues but check out everything pretty thoroughly when you get it. Mine came with a slightly bent riving knife which Delta replaced with no questions asked, probably because it would have been a safety issue. Make sure that both faces of the fence are flat and square as well. I have seen some reports of that too.

It is not a cabinet saw but the motor is plenty strong. I've never felt like it was underpowered. I recently switched mine over 240V which is super easy as it has a switch on the motor so the only wiring you have to do is change out the plug. For the price point, it is hard to beat, especially since it comes with a built in mobile base.


----------



## blistersonmyfingers

> For those of you who have this one, do you still like it. What are some of the issues you have had? I hear that some of the tops warped, and I was wondering how many of you have experienced this?


I stick to my original review above more or less.

Periodically I notice the slight lack of precision (for example: blade sliding a bit laterally as the lift goes up/down).

For loads of dudes its probably fine. Definitely better than a contractor saw or a cheaper "table" saw that's a glorified contractor portable on longer legs. My tops are fine, although the extended sheetmetal ones aren't the greatest, they were a beyotch to get aligned as flat as possible w/ the cast table. Its more the precision of the alignment lockdown that bugs me I think.

Since my last review I modified the 'jack' on the caster wheel to elevate it more - Got a scrap of plate steel and drilled it and replaced the bolts with longer ones to raise it up higher to deal with the bumpy floor I have in my basement. That's another thing that wasn't so great - the amount of clearance when rolling it around. The mod wasn't too hard until you add it to the list of mods that I've felt was necessary….

To recap my main complaints with it:
- Alignment is tricky PITA and ultimately design has limitations including blade 'sliding' from flex in the tubes
- Assembly / truing up is a PITA and can take a long time due to sloppy holes/mfring, be prepared to re-drill or enlargen holes to add room to adjust
- The sheet metal box panels on the bottom just straight up would not assemble without redrilling / clearancing the holes - again sloppy tolerances. 
- The fence on mine was not square, vertical face not square to bottom. I could disassemble it and shim it for sure but have not gotten to that point yet. 
- Also 'new' item… I have begun to think the arbor on mine might have the very slightest bit of wander to it. If someday I tear it down to clean it and maybe do a 240v conversion, I may look at it closer and try to figure out if thats' true. I've tried truing up the blade washer faces but I think there's a wee little wander to the arbor itself.

Table? Fine. The trunions aren't super precision (ignore the angle indicators and measure the blade angle for instance… even after peeling the label and recalibrating it it wasn't good enough because the saw isn't consistent or precise enough) but if you measure the blade angle every time they hold pretty good and it doesn't wander.

If I focus on the good parts? 
- Motor? Fine. Amps / power is the least of worries for me - it's always cut fine and has had plenty of power for my jobs - although its true I don't try to rip a stack of 12' 4×4's back to back too often. 
- Cast table is nice and flat and no worries. 
- Fence and its mechanism seems to be pretty good, that doesn't wander or go off and has been reliable
- Aside from needing extra height the caster / wheel system is great

Again if you want to slap it together and do some general sawdust creation and not worry too much about exactly how flat the extensions are or how square the fence is or how perfectly the blade is aligned, its probably fine. Also, a bunch of those complaints above are really "unfair" on my part and unrealistic expectations…. Like a little arbor wander… Hey. Its not a real cabinet saw. It was 'cheap'. I should probably let it go.

However personally I'd probably look much closer at a Grizzly option if I had it to do over again, with the hopes that I didn't have multiple weekend days of rework and mods that I had to do when setting it up…

HTH


----------



## Willscary

My $0.02…I absolutely love the saw!

Ok, so I bought a pair of cast iron wings from a sawstop saw ($75 for the pair on CL) and modified them to fit my saw. My cast iron saw top is NOT flat. This bothered me a lot and I mentioned it to a guy I work with who has been building cabinets as a side business for nearly 40 years. This guy is a true craftsman and knows his stuff. His response was to laugh!

We stopped at his house and he showed me his shop. He took a straight edge to his big, extended unisaw. It was not flat. he said that since he purchased it new a few decades ago, he has cut an enormous amount of wood on the saw for hundreds of kitchens and baths, plus doors, trim and furniture cabinets. Over the years, his may have warped a bit and it has definitely worn down a lot from use. Even though it is well waxed and mirror smooth, it is no longer close to flat. He says that it does not affect his production at all and that perfect flatness is only needed at the assembly table. OK…now I can live with that.

My saw cuts like a dream. It is smooth and quiet running. I have only had it for a few months and have only used it for maybe a dozen or so hours, but I am very happy with the purchase. Do I wish the top was flat? Yup…I am sort of anal. Has it skewed my cuts so that pieces don't line up? No.

My fence is awesome, but the faces of the fence are a very thin extruded aluminum. When I took it out of the box, I set it on the saw table and then bumped it and it fell to the concrete garage floor. The face that faces the blade was no longer flat. I purchased a piece of much heavier extruded aluminum and now all is well…perfectly flat and much heavier duty. It cost me $50 for the extrusion.

I do use a Freud thin kerf blade. The saw cots like champ and the cuts are smooth as glass. I have my saw set up at 90 degrees and have not yet had a need to make a bevel cut, so I can't speak as to accuracy of the bevel indicator or its repeatability.

For the $500+ that I paid, I do not think that this saw can be beat.


----------



## blistersonmyfingers

@Willscary - any link to the extrusion you purchased? I never bothered to tear down the fence but if there was a better face mod / rebuild option I'd do it. In meantime I made a fence-box attachment that fits over it that has a combo purpose:

1. give a true 90 vertical face, and 
2. provide sacrificial faces 
3. provide a T-slot for accessories like vertical featherboards and a low-pro fence extension
3. OK of course I also made some little compartments in the top that hold stuff like the wrench and featherboards and clamp blocks and the like

I love my attachment, it came out great, but sometimes it'd be nice to be able to use the native fence alone… and I'd just sleep better knowing the face under my attachment was square.


----------



## Willscary

OOOPS…just saw this. Here is what I purchased:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/8020-Inc-Aluminum-Extrusion-40-Series-40-4083-Lite-x-1829mm-Full-Black-F5-04/371560515328?hash=item5682bb8700:g:T5wAAOSwmudaBKAT:rk:3f:0



> @Willscary - any link to the extrusion you purchased? I never bothered to tear down the fence but if there was a better face mod / rebuild option I d do it. In meantime I made a fence-box attachment that fits over it that has a combo purpose:
> 
> 1. give a true 90 vertical face, and
> 2. provide sacrificial faces
> 3. provide a T-slot for accessories like vertical featherboards and a low-pro fence extension
> 3. OK of course I also made some little compartments in the top that hold stuff like the wrench and featherboards and clamp blocks and the like
> 
> I love my attachment, it came out great, but sometimes it d be nice to be able to use the native fence alone… and I d just sleep better knowing the face under my attachment was square.
> 
> - blistersonmyfingers


----------



## blistersonmyfingers

Will - thanks for the post back!

Would be great to get tiny more info about that particular linked product, my extrusions measure roughly (very roughly, quick rundownthebasement tapemeasure check) 17mm x 66mm so that one looks lots bigger - which is fine…

But the factory one is retained by bolts into a channel down the center of the extrusion, while that linked product has 2 t-slot channels - top and bottom - neither of which seems like it would align w/ the factory extrusions slot?

Or is there enough slop for the bottom channel to work? Or did you drill the flat-side for retaining holes and then face the 2-T slots outward?

Looking at that extrusion its SO much better than the thin crap that it came with I'm getting excited to mod this up a bit… the only problem will be my custom fence box no longer fitting as it was custom built to exactly match the factory item… and it'll be between hard and impossible to rework, so making another would be a full do-over…


----------



## DannyW

Thanks so much for the review and follow up, they have been very helpful. I just got mine put together tonight and made my first cut. I can't believe how smooth and quiet this saw is! My only other saw was a small jobsite saw and I really didn't know what to expect. And the dust was minimal with my shop vac dust collector. The added length in front of the blade is very welcome. What a difference it is going to make in my shop. I can see now what a tremendous value this saw is.

I had built an outfeed table for the other saw and now it is about 3 inches short so I need to raise it some, probably by putting it on some risers; that will be my next task.


----------



## EricLew

Welcome to the club Danny 

Eric


----------



## thelt

Welcome, Danny! If your interested, Izzy Swan has a YouTube video on making a zero clearance insert for this saw. I haven't made one yet, I need to find an oven to use (besides the kitchen oven). Or, I have to wait till the wife takes a trip somewhere. LOL


----------



## thelt

WOODKDD this is advertising of Ted's Woodworking Plans, the majority of which are copyrighted plans. and I for one will not use.

I also urge all LJ's to not use. and to block this user. In the last 6 hours he has posted this 98 times.


----------

