# Laguna 18BX bandsaw



## Jake229 (Jan 14, 2020)

Hi! Please keep us updated. Laguna is on my short list of bandsaws. I want something that I can resaw with, especially with the price of wood as it is.

Thank you!

Jake


----------



## ljislink (Aug 22, 2021)

That really sucks, I went through similar frustration with a Laguna planer bought at Woodcraft. I hope you get it resolved soon. Woodcrafts 1st response to me was "call Laguna" I flipped out and told em I didn't buy this from Laguna I bought it from you, I didn't give them a chance for a second response I told them I'm returning it. 
Since you've had so much trouble with it can't you return it under warranty ? I'd move on and get another brand I've seen a lot of bad reviews on Laguna tools lately. You should be able to unbox your tool set it up and use it ,you've gone above and beyond anything I would ever do to brand new tool.


----------



## AJ1104 (Nov 9, 2013)

Wow. That sounds like a lemon. I would ask them to send a rep to troubleshoot. IMO they owe you that, as they must stand behind their products as a major brand. 
I have the Italian made version for about 8 years without a problem.


----------



## Sark (May 31, 2017)

Laguna swapped out a motor for me once, but it turned out the vibration came from pulleys (which bandsaw doesn't have). Unlikely to be the motor, but there aren't a whole lot of other things to try. (I assume you've tried other blades to rule out the Resaw King?) The motor can be replaced but if the pulleys are not in alignment that's not fixable. No expert, but I have a Laguna 14/12 bandsaw with Resaw King and it works for me.


----------



## mikeber (Jan 17, 2016)

One way to detect the source of the problem is to isolate it. Remove the blade and turn on the motor with one wheel only, looking for any sign of vibration. If it doesn't show even minimal vibration, install another (even dull) blade. Remove all guides and watch the free running blade turning. Keep tension at min. If it's still vibration free, gradually start tensioning the blade.


----------



## fromaway (Jan 22, 2013)

What a pain!!! I feel badly for what you're going through.

I like to look through these reviews every so often to see what LJ's think are "great, good or lets no go there" products. I've learned a lot of valuable insight from here. Like most of you I'm a somewhat of a tool junkie whose arsenal is far outstripped by my budget.

Is it just me … my observation is that there is an increasing number of negative reviews of Laguna tools and their customer service compared to favourable reviews of same.

Is it a numbers game: Laguna is becoming a bigger player in the market (possibly driven by hitting a lower price point) so with more Laguna customers you might expect there to be more opinions.

Have to say … this Forum is making me leery of their products. Am I alone?

Cheers
Bryan


----------



## iminmyshop (Dec 9, 2012)

Doesn't Woodcraft back its sales? Isn't a very big part of the attraction to buying from an actual store that they will back what they sell? Woodcraft should be swapping out the machine for you and dealing with Laguna themselves to keep their customer happy. Same for the blade.


----------



## Peteybadboy (Jan 23, 2013)

Thanks for posting this.

I do hope you find a solution.


----------



## Buck_Thorne (Jun 20, 2015)

> "Ok", he says and he sends me a new upper wheel.
>"Ok", he says and he sends me a new Resew King blade.
> When support guy did call, he sent me a new set of tires.

Sure can't fault Laguna for lack of support, at least.


----------



## iminmyshop (Dec 9, 2012)

>Sure can't fault Laguna for lack of support, at least.<

Yes. But. At some point, when you've sold someone a lemon, the best and ultimately cheapest support is to replace the unit with one in good working order. It's cheapest because the negative advertising will far outweigh the cost of the replacement. That's what Woodcraft should have done. I'm speaking now as a frequent customer of my local Woodcraft. If the store says it's not their problem and just shunts you to the manufacturer, they can rationalize their attitude all they want but, in the end, they will lose more and more of their business to their online rivals until their closing will just be a mercy killing.


----------



## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

The solution to machine problems takes thought and analysis. What is it doing? What parts of the machine could be causing the problem? Simply exchanging parts to mollify the customer isn't analysis.


----------



## go4tech (Aug 5, 2015)

This maybe helpful.

Several years ago, I bought a returned 1412 from the folks at Laguna Tools in Orange County for a very good price.

Got it home and put Resaw King Blade on it. Long story made short, it ran much rougher (ie: vibrated) than anticipated / desired. Called Laguna. Got very much the same run around on re-crown the tires, change the tires, etc. Believe that all of these were band aides. It ran and cut acceptably. Cut could have been smoother. Was able to complete the project so all OK…..

When I had time did a lot of looking to see what was what and why. In the end, the drive belt was way, way too tight. Adjusted the motor tension and a good 90% of the vibration went away. The rest seems to be associated with what blade is installed. Took a file to the Resaw King wield. That also helped.

At this point in time, happy with purchase. Not so sure that I would be as happy if one had paid fully price.

Hope this is positive and on-going. YMMV.


----------



## ic3ss (Oct 19, 2010)

Hi guys, thanks for all of the thoughtful comments. It's really appreciated. I have updates:

I re-engaged with Laguna support and I asked for a different tech, and got one based in Texas at the manufacturing plant. I took video before of all of the measurements I took by that time and sent it to the new guy along with my vibration analysis data. He put an upper and a lower wheel in the mail and should arrive on the 15th, a few days away.

One thing that is particularly interesting to me are these two observations:

1. I ran the saw with each of the two blades I have, for several minutes to see if the strength of the vibration changed over time, and it does. It gets really strong, then begins to fade and eventually all but disappears. I almost can't feel anything at all, and it's like that for some 15 seconds or so and then gets stronger. It cycles between high and low continuously and it takes 2 minutes and 50 seconds to make one full cycle of high and low vibration.

2. The next thing I found is this: I ran the saw to the point that the vibration was lowest, then stopped it quickly with the brake, and then I marked the top of both wheels with a sharpie. Then I ran the saw for 20 seconds and stopped it, checked the marks and found that with the top wheel mark at top center again the bottom wheel is now 120 degrees counter clockwise from top. This means the wheels are not the same diameter, and not turning at the same speed. While this by itself doesn't mean much, I continued running it another 20 seconds and check it again. Now the bottom wheel is further CCW from where it was. Ran again, further CCW. Ran it until the vibration had gotten strongest, then faded to undetectable again and stopped it. The bottom wheel mark was now in line again with the top wheel.

What this means is that the vibration coming in cycles is a direct result of the wheels turning at different speeds. Each wheel has a small vibration by itself and at orientation 0 of the bottom wheel the vibrations between the two wheels are additive, making it stronger. At orientation 180 they cancel each other out making the vibration minimal. And, after 2 minutes and 50 seconds of running, as the bottom wheel comes around again it gets stronger until it peaks again at orientation 0.

Anyway, I've got to go to Arizona for a week so I'll post an update when I get back after I can test the new wheels.

Thanks for all of the interest, and help.

Wayne


----------



## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Your second observation is some impressive detective work! It would sure explain why the amplitude of the vibration is cyclical as in your first observation.


----------



## Mike_190930 (Sep 30, 2019)

Really nice work chasing down the source of vibration. It got me to thinking. From the behavior you observed, I am guessing that both wheels are not balanced, otherwise the additive/subtractive cyclical behavior would be absent and you would only see a constant level of vibration.

First thing would be to check the wheel for run-out to see if it is actually round, or close to round, or if the shaft hole was bored off center. That could be the end of it right there if the wheel is oval or eccentric.

If round enough, you might try testing the upper wheel on the bench. Find a suitable piece of shaft rod and mount in in a vise or otherwise solidly fix it to a bench, and mount the wheel on the shaft. The axle should be horizontal and the wheel vertical. Spin the wheel by hand and see if it consistently glides to a halt with the same side down. That will be the heavy side. Since you seem to have accumulated spare wheels, nothing to lose with what comes next. Drill a little divot out of somewhere on the heavy side, and repeat the spin test. Keep drilling divots on the heavy side until the spin test begins to stop at random locations. Bang, you now have a nearly perfectly balanced wheel! (If you look at the flywheel of a car engine, you will see divots drilled into it as the factory worked to balance it.)

Or I suppose you could try duct taping a nut or something to the light side instead, at least long enough to prove the point.

An alternative approach would be to lay the wheel flat on the bench and place a large ball bearing (or something like it) under the shaft hole. The wheel will tilt to the heavy side.

After re-installing the wheel on the saw, see if the cyclical vibrations go away and are replaced by a constant vibration. If so, then repeat the process on the lower wheel.

Also, on a slightly different note, a long time ago I tossed the v-belt on my Craftsman table saw and replaced it with a link belt. Did wonders for killing belt vibrations.


----------



## Sark (May 31, 2017)

Yes, really excellent detective work and analysis! Who'd a thought? Be nice to get the wheels dynamically balanced. But presumably they are balanced at the factory. Laguna has got to hope that your case was unique and that a faulty manufacturing run didn't produce dozens of out-of-spec wheels.


----------



## northwoodsman (Feb 22, 2008)

Do you have the saw on a fixed base or on a mobile base? I would start at the ground and work your way up based on some some similar issues that others have posted about bandsaw vibration with their saws not being level on all four corners to the ground (frame slightly tweaked). Place a small shim under a corner then turn it on and see what happens. Remove the shim and move it to another corner. Start it up and see what happens. Try this on all 4 corners. If the vibration lessons but doesn't go away, try a thicker shim at the corner where it was the most improved. I know that my shop floor looks smooth as glass but is very uneven. I have proven this by spraying water on the entire surface and watching where it pools up. If I assemble a tool in one spot and tighten up all the bolts and move it across the floor there are points where only 3 of the 4 feet or casters are touching the floor. This is most noticeable on something that isn't heavy like my router table. My bandsaw is heavy and the casters are always touching the floor but it does vibrate more in some locations than others. My floor is unfinished concrete and I know where the best spots are for my bandsaw and I marked the floor with a permanent marker and always place it in that spot when I use it. Even if you don't move your saw, if you assembled it in one spot and moved it a few feet to its' permanent location you could experience this. Are you 100% certain that there was no stress or tension on the frame or components as you assembled it and tightened everything up? I'm the type of guy who puts all the nuts and bolts in finger tights until it's assembled then goes back with a wrench or a socket once I'm confident it all good. My kids are the opposite. They grab an impact wrench and go to town. They end up assembling it and taking it apart 2 - 3 times and then finally just saying close enough. I can guarantee that if they were to put together a bandsaw you would literally watch it walk across the floor until it ran out of cord and unplugged itself.


----------



## ic3ss (Oct 19, 2010)

Thanks Mike. So I found early on that both wheels are not exactly round, they both have high spots and low spots if measured with my dial indicator on the iron surface where the tires sit. Tires removed of course. They don't seem to have the center hole off center really. When I run the bottom wheel alone on the motor there's not much vibration that I can feel.

I've used the link belts from Fenner Drives on my old Unisaw and my jointer with great success. But this one uses a belt similar to your car's serpentine belt, flat with many grooves. I'd have to replace the pulley's.

Sark; I looked at machine shops in my area and the only balancing that I can find is for car wheels. I ran that one down pretty quickly to nothing.

I put this much effort into trying to solve it because I really want to like this saw, and I don't want to deal with a return. I'm pretty much zeroed in on the two wheels causing this together so if the new wheels don't fix it, a replacement will have to be in order.

wayne


----------



## ic3ss (Oct 19, 2010)

Woodsman, The footing was the first thing we looked at. It's on my concrete garage floor, no rocking, no gaps, and it does not have a mobile base. It's down solid on the floor.

Thanks,


----------



## Jake229 (Jan 14, 2020)

I am sorry you are going through this. As far as balancing the wheels, have you checked with a bike shop? A few years ago, I had a vibration on my bike and the local bike shop was able to assist. Just thinking out loud. It is very nice that folks are chiming in here to help or at least attempt to help.

Stay safe!
Jake


----------



## iminmyshop (Dec 9, 2012)

Good lord. This is crazy to have to go through this with a brand new machine. The idea that Woodcraft wont stand behind their sales is pathetic. The manager should be shown this thread. If this were a car, the lemon laws in most states would kick in and require either the dealer or manufacturer to just swap out your "old" saw and give you a new one that works. This is a problem. It just should not be your problem.


----------



## northwoodsman (Feb 22, 2008)

Do you have a woodworking club in your area? If so perhaps a couple of the bandsaw "experts" would be willing to come out and take a look at it? Sometimes the more eyes on something the better. I take it the saw won't pass the nickel test?


----------



## ic3ss (Oct 19, 2010)

Northwoodsman;

That's a good idea. There always seems to be some guy that's the bandsaw guru in those clubs. There is a club based in a neighboring town, I used to go to the meetings but stopped a couple of years ago.

What I got from Woodcraft was that if a new saw was sent by laguna they would be happy to receive it for me, but it seems they could just send it directly to my house instead if it goes that far. I didn't really press them on what they are willing to to do because I am getting help from Laguna so its not like I'm all alone so far.

Still waiting on new wheels to arrive on the 15th.

wayne


----------



## ic3ss (Oct 19, 2010)

> Really nice work chasing down the source of vibration. It got me to thinking. From the behavior you observed, I am guessing that both wheels are not balanced, otherwise the additive/subtractive cyclical behavior would be absent and you would only see a constant level of vibration.


Mike,

That was the first obvious thing, is wheels unbalanced. The first replacement upper wheel they sent didn't change anything really. I rigged up a jig to my drill that engages with the wheel so I can spin the wheel with the drill. I don't know what RPM it gets to but I'm sure its a bit slower than it runs normally. I wasn't able to really feel vibration in the upper assembly with the upper wheel free spinning like this.

Same for the lower wheel: I took off the drive belt and ran the lower wheel up with the drill also with same result. And with the lower wheel being driven by the motor with no blade on there's very little vibration in the table.

It seemed to me they wheels were balanced, but with my latest observations pointing directly at the wheel balance I guess they could be better. We'll see when the new wheels come in on tuesday.

Thanks,

wayne


----------



## Peteybadboy (Jan 23, 2013)

Wayne,

Thanks for posting. I am in the market for a new bandsaw. Your trouble is steering me away from Laguna.


----------



## ic3ss (Oct 19, 2010)

Petey,

Laguna has a good reputation and make fine tools. I would advise against making a determination based just on my experience with one bandsaw. I'm sure we'll get it sorted out, it's just a pain getting there. I've seen my experience is very much the exception and not the rule.

Wayne


----------



## northwoodsman (Feb 22, 2008)

I have a smaller Laguna, the 14/Twelve, and it scares me sometimes because if my dust collector is on or if I have my hearing protection on I can't tell if the thing is running it's so smooth and quiet. I'm sure that you will figure it out. It's probably going to be something crazy like an extra nut or something fell behind something in the assembly process and made something get misaligned.

How smooth is it without the blade installed? I wouldn't want to mess around too much with that expensive blade but if you could find a cheaper blade perhaps back off all the guide wheels (or blocks) and adjust the tension and see if that makes a difference.


----------



## ic3ss (Oct 19, 2010)

I've already ruled out the blade. I bought a couple of Timberwolf blades and same story on both. I really think it's going to be the wheels. I just hope the ones they're sending me are balanced properly.

wayne


----------



## halfacre (Apr 4, 2011)

Another thing you haven't mentioned if you are doing this is a cold climate and the tension has not been cranked off or down then let the saw run awhile to let the tires maybe build up a little heat and see if the vibration drops of slows enough to make a difference. I have an old Sears band saw and it has rubber tires and I never release the tension but the bigger Grizzly 18" has the newer style tires and Grizzly did tell me to be sure to let off tension after each use!


----------



## ic3ss (Oct 19, 2010)

Update:

I received the new upper and lower wheels from Laguna support this week. I've been out of state for work so today was my first day back. I first unboxed the lower wheel, it had already been fitted with a tire but didn't have the driven pulley on it. No problem, I had made up a jig that will hold the center hub of the bearings outside of the saw, so I can check concentricity of the driven pulley on the lower wheel with my dial indicator. I used this to mount the pulley on the wheel making sure that the concentricity error of the pulley is only about 0.003" out of center. The way this thing mounts it can easily be as much as 0.025" out of center depending on which screw is in which hole and the orientation of the pulley.

Anyway,

I put the new lower wheel on and it made the vibration better but it still came and went in cycles of intensity, but this time the cycle took 7 min 15 seconds for the bottom wheel to clock a full 360 degrees against the top wheel. This is compared to 2 min and 50 seconds for the original bottom wheel. The top wheel was a replacement that Laguna sent me a while back that didn't fix the problem.

This was interesting but it was not a fix, so I went ahead and put on the upper wheel. This is the second replacement upper wheel Laguna support sent me, this time it came without a tire. No problem, I mounted one that they had sent me earlier. Slipped a socket extension under the tire and ran it with my drill until the wheel turned about 4 revolutions to flatten it out, making sure there were no thick or thin spots. Mounted the wheel and tensioned the blade. I then put a sharpie mark on both wheels at the top to check for bottom wheel clocking.

Turned the saw on and it now has almost no vibration. Guarding against premature excitement, I let it run for a couple of minutes. Vibration was still good over the two minutes. I shut it down and checked the bottom wheel mark. It was counter clockwise about 15-20 degrees. I did this several times and each time the bottom wheel clocked further CCW. I ran it for a total of 15 minutes, stopping to check the clocking position every couple-few minutes. At 15 minutes it had clocked to 180 degrees. The significance of this is that it is half a cycle, which means that if this was going to vibrate it would have done it by now. Remember that the full cycle on the old wheels went from strong to very weak vibration, then back to strong as the bottom wheel clocked all the way around to the starting point. I had my hand on the upper assy. the whole 15 minutes and the vibration never changed intensity, it was very low the whole time.

So as it turns out I was was right. The problem was an imbalance of BOTH the upper and lower wheels. Where each wheel caused a slight vibration that by itself was not much, but together caused a much larger vibration. And the second part of this is that the wheels different diameters caused the bottom wheel to clock 360 degrees over 2 min and 50 seconds of running, and this is why the vibration went from strong intensity to very weak, then back to strong every 2 min and 50 seconds. As the bottom wheel clocked to 180 degrees it was canceling out the vibration of the top wheel, and when it clocked back to 0 degrees it added to the top wheel's vibration.

Wheew! I'm exhausted but elated, and I hope all of the makes sense. Whenever I've explained this to my wife, daughter, or my step-mom, they all smile and nod and that's all I get.

I now have the bandsaw that I wanted. It runs smoothly now, has tons of power, great working guides, a very strong frame, plenty of weight and stability, and loads of resaw capacity. I now fully LOVE THIS THING!!!

I also want to call out Laguna support for enthusiastically giving me all of the support that I needed to solve this problem. When i observed something that wasn't right, they sent a replacement part and they sent it to me without giving me any grief. When the part arrived, they followed up to find out the result and to continue pushing the issue further. I also want to say that any manufactured thing is going to have a problem that slips through QA and makes it to a customer. It happens, and I honestly don't fault Laguna for this. What is important is that there is product support that is easily accessible, competent, forthcoming with information that comes from first hand knowledge, and eager to keep in steady contact to continue pushing the issue to resolution. This is what Laguna did for me, so I'm changing my rating of the 18BX to 5 stars.

Thanks very much for all of your comments and suggestions, it really did help me to stay focused on finding new things to check. I also really hope that this will help someone to better understand the effects of an imbalance of both wheels on a bandsaw, and what that looks like.

Thanks very much,
wayne


----------



## Bentley2021 (Jun 29, 2021)

Hey, sorry to hear about your issues with the bandsaw. I have a 14/12 Laguna and so far in the 5 years of owning it I've had no issues. The one and only issue is with the Laguna Resaw King blades. I personally think that they are horrible at the weld. The do an absolutely beautiful cut. It's the weld. My first one was good right out of the box. Just a slight misalignment at the weld. I could live with that. One thing I learned was never leave it on as your everyday blade. Mine splinter cracked all the way around on the blade. I even release the tension after every use. So I get a new one. OMG, vibration, everything bad. The weld was so poor that I had to set the guide blocks almost 0.125" apart. So my supplier sends me another one. Same exact thing. Now my supplier tells me I don't know what I'm doing and that the blade is fine. I will never deal with that supplier again. So I get my 3rd one and it is almost as good as my original one. In my case it was the ReSaw King blades that caused all of my issues with vibration and not being able to tension my machine properly. I ended up using a 1/2" blade from my new supplier and it cuts almost as good as the ReSaw King blade. No vibration, or tracking issues at all. So in my case it was the blade causing all of my issues with the saw. It does cut fantastic. Just hope this helps in getting your issue resolved. One other thing I've noticed about Laguna. They seem to send stuff out that the buyer ends up fixing that should have been caught at the factory before shipping out.


----------



## northwoodsman (Feb 22, 2008)

I'm glad that you finally got it worked out. What an incredible journey you have been on. You certainly went through a lot of trouble shooting and parts replacement on a new machine. I wonder if there were have been a way for you to balance the wheels yourself? Again, I'm thinking if someone were to have similar problem with another brand of bandsaw that doesn't have the fantastic support that Laguna offers. This says a lot about Laguna's service and your patience!


----------



## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

It's great to hear that your impressive analysis of the problem has paid off!


----------



## ic3ss (Oct 19, 2010)

Bentley, My resaw king blade has the same crappy weld and would smack into the ceramic guides whenever it came around. I took it off and laid it on the bench with the carbide teeth hanging off the edge and ran a flat file across it on both sides. I had measured that it was 0.001" proud of the blade surface on both sides. When I filed it it didn't really make it lower that I could measure but it doesn't smack into the guides anymore.

They sent me a replacement blade that had the same issue, but this one was welded crooked. Looking at the back edge of the blade and turning the wheel by hand, when the weld came around it bent forward towards the teeth by about 1/8" and then back when the weld passed.

I don't really knock Laguna, bad apples sometimes make it through. Although it would be nice if they assembled and test ran each saw before shipping, but that would be costly.


----------



## ic3ss (Oct 19, 2010)

north woodsman,

I don't have the ability to dynamic balance a wheel. I tried looking for a machine shop but all I found were places that balanced car wheels. The bearings are sealed and the seal provides a little resistance, enough resistance that the wheel needs to have considerable off-balance weight to make the wheel turn to the low spot. It didn't work in this case.


----------



## OtisFinklestein (May 25, 2019)

I had the same issue with the table heights, but fixed it with a very small wedge under one side of the screw. No problems since. Have loved the 18bx since.


----------

