# Basement Shop & Dust Collection



## Jeremiah873 (Feb 28, 2020)

So here's the thing…I just bought a house that has steam heat, so baseboard units. 
My goal is to have the shop in the basement where the boiler is for the heating..and also the water heater.
I CAN port outside. 
The basement is connected to the garage also if that helps. 
What are the concerns about gases and such I need to worry about. I am confused as to what the negative effects of running a shop indoors …besides dust are. I'm used to working out of a garage but now I want to come indoors.
I was thinking a 2hp blower that ports everything outdoors. 
Thanks guys


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

This is huge topic.

Making your dust collector vent outdoors will require you to have sufficient intake vents to replace the air lost.

Gas appliances have same requirements. There has to be fresh air vents to replace the combusted air exhausted up the stack.

Having both types of appliances in same space will require careful engineering to ensure your make up air flow is enough to satisfy all the appliances turned on at same time. The challenge with a large fresh air intake for many appliances is you waste energy on HVAC conditioning of the make up air.

In can be more economical from energy usage view to use a HEPA grade dust collector that is vented into same space as wood working area where the air taken from. But the initial investment for better dust collector and local air filtration at sanding station will be much higher.

There are ton of factors that lead to the 'best' decision for either venting method. 
Without knowing a whole lot more about your; space, tools, weather, living space to work space air containment, existing fresh air venting, etc, etc; it is very hard to recommend one over the other.

I had a basement shop once. I choose to use cartridge filter dust collector (hepa wood working dust collectors didn't exist way back then), and 2 local hepa circulation filters mounted to the ceiling; as replacing the fresh air with external venting was not practical. I still had dust intrusion into home if I made mistake of leaving basement door open. YMMV

PS - Also need to learn to keep dusty clothes in basement, and not drag it upstairs into house at end of day. I used to vacuum my clothes to avoid need to run naked through house. lol

Best Luck deciding this dilemma.


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## MPython (Nov 30, 2018)

I have a ClearVue CV1800 cyclone in my basement shop with Wynn filters. The filtered air vents back onto the work area, not outside. My gas furnace and my gas water heater are also in my basement, but not in the immediate shop area. There are two HVAC ducts in the shop, but no return. I've never had a problem with shop odors (solvents, etc.) or fine wood dust in the living quarters of the house.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Consider not venting out, but instead use filters to put the air back into the basement. Solves several problems, and may be a lot easier to do.


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## Jeremiah873 (Feb 28, 2020)

Thanks .. Im starting to understand it. 
If I was to port outside let's say. . By keeping other smaller windows open in the basement …would this be enough airflow back in? Or would I need a small fan in the window to push air back in. There are multiple windows I think 4 total ..about 1.5ft x2ft windows.
I keep reading guys who just crack doors and windows in their basements and say they are completely fine…but that's why I'm here…asking.
The basement is only around 500 square foot. I can also keep the door to the garage cracked if needed. 
The garage is heated also by the steam baseboards.
There is no door from the basement to the house other than walking through the garage…it's a weird setup. I am in northeast ohio so winters can be cold.
The tools I run…one at a time…are 14"bandsaw, 12" planer, 6" jointer, router,drum sander and miter saw…the basics.
I make picture frames and don't really run them for hours and hours non stop…maybe tops 30 min…then off to another tool. 
My woman and I just don't want to spend tons of cash on a DC like everyone else..and since there are windows we'd like to utilize it.
Also..let's say i do port outdoors ..would it be better to keep the actual blower outside as well? 
Two of the basement windows face under the giant porch. So I was thinking placing the DC outside under the porch…which will never get wet since the porch is essentially attached the the house..basically a three seasons room thats off the ground with ample crawl room to go under.
The cons are noise but I'm on an acre and it being under a porch I doubt noise will be a factor. I'm thinking a simple 2hp blower i.e. HF,Grizz,Jet….
Are there benefits from the blower being outside compared to inside ?
Sorry if I'm all over the place 
Thanks all for the replies


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## Sawdust2012 (Sep 17, 2013)

I've had the same conversation with myself many times over a DC and several other issues in my shop or around the house. I'll risk sounding like a bloviating know-it-all to say that every time I have tried to work around something or make up for some engineering rule I was dancing around, I have regretted it. Conversely, every time I have gone ahead and spent the money on a good, albeit more expensive solution, I have been glad I did. All I know about this is that if you don't do it correctly, you get a lot of Carbon Monoxide in the house. Unless you are facing life in prison, this is not a good thing. Even then, it depends on the prison, but overall it's one of those situations where I don't want to rely on my expertise. I've heard of situation where the pilot light goes out, which brings all sorts of fun. If it were me, I'd have to check that every time I left the shop because I have enough to worry about already. A 1.5 Horse DC with a cyclone and a Winn filter will cost some money, but 6 months down the road, you'll be glad you set it up correctly. If you watch CL closely, and check the boards at the local wood supply store, someone will sell a good DC soon enough.


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## hairy (Sep 23, 2008)

I have a basement shop. I use a Powermatic 1300 dust collector with a Super Dust Deputy cyclone. I also use a Powermatic 1200 air filter and a homemade air filter.

I don't get dust upstairs in the house. It takes effort to clean up as I go. The lathe is the worst offender. When I make a mess, I clean it up before doing something. It works for me…


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

You simply cannot vent a dust collector outside in the winter under most circumstances. You will need so much make-up air that the shop will probably be 40-50 degrees, if that.

That will negatively impact the efficiency of your boiler and the forced hot water (it doesn't sound like steam, it sounds like forced hot water, which is different) system.

Look into a quality dust collector with a good filter that you can vent into the basement. Size the system so you can capture 99% of the dust at the source, then add an air cleaner (inexpensive is okay, look at the Wen one) to get the last of the dust out of the air.

Dust won't really impact your heating system unless you make a ton of it and don't collect it.


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## Jeremiah873 (Feb 28, 2020)

Thanks everybody for the replies.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

> My woman and I just don t want to spend tons of cash on a DC like everyone else..and since there are windows we d like to utilize it.
> 
> - Jeremiah873


Just a comment: one reason folks wind up spending "tons of cash" on DC is the try to start off without spending money, and then realize the only way to a successful set up is to invest at least some money in a workable system. I'm not criticizing the budget approach, just be aware you will need to spend something and it's usually cheaper to start out with something that works from the beginning. It may be hard to spend money on something that doesn't actually do something to the wood, but it's one of the more important expenditures (IMHO) in a shop.


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## Bill1974 (Mar 24, 2010)

Venting outside is risky at best in you case. it could be done, but it will take either a lot of discipline or probably as much as a decent dust collector and filter to not need discipline.

On cold days venting outside will likely make feel like you are outside in short order.

Make sure to service your boiler and water heater regularly and try to keep dust from causing a hazard with them. It does not take much dust to mess up the air inlets, heat exchangers and other parts.

May want to look in to putting up some walls around the boiler and water heats and having vents that pull though HVAC filters to protect them. Again not something to taken lightly may want to have a professional okay it before doing it.

A shopvac and maybe some minor dust collection mods to you tools will get you a long way to catching the dust. An inexpensive dust collector with a filter will better.

If venting outside is the only option, get yourself a manometer and make sure the air pressure by your boiler and water heater is the same as outside the house. And also make sure carbon monoxide are in use you home and in the shop area.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

I have a small shop (10'x16') and insulated this year. I have added a wall mounted window unit leave it on "Dry" during the week and crank it low on the weekends. I use large a shop vac with bag and filter with a pre- cyclone to catch the major stuff. It works well when I remember to move the hose to the proper tool, I hate getting halfway through a cut and then seeing the dust plume. Anyway my observation is that with my air conditioner being only slightly more than the minimum required I am amazed how quickly the temperature increases while in use. Until I get more space I am switching to more hand tool work including hand sawing my boards. I guess I need the exercise anyway. Not getting rid of my power tools just yet though.


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## 23tony (Dec 8, 2017)

> Just a comment: one reason folks wind up spending "tons of cash" on DC is the try to start off without spending money, and then realize the only way to a successful set up is to invest at least some money in a workable system. I m not criticizing the budget approach, just be aware you will need to spend something and it s usually cheaper to start out with something that works from the beginning. It may be hard to spend money on something that doesn t actually do something to the wood, but it s one of the more important expenditures (IMHO) in a shop.
> 
> - Fred Hargis


I kinda found the same thing, but fortunately my wife short-circuited this by getting me a dust collection system for Christmas a couple years back.

So far the only thing I have it permanently connected to is the table saw, but the dust reduction just from that is incredible. I'll be hooking up more as I have the chance (and as I replace some old tools).


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

CO, CO, CO. Venting outside will bring CO down the chimney and into the house. You will lose heat, but that will not kill you. CO does. I had blocked attic vents caused by cottonwood seed lint. The attic fan pulled air down three stories, out the boiler, and back up to the fan. And an attic fan does not move near the air that a DC does. Without CO detectors, myself and my family would be DEAD!!! Spend the money on a good DC, because if the CO doesn't get you, the fine dust will.


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## Picken5 (Jan 12, 2011)

I have basement shop. It's about 550 square feet. I use a Laguna 2HP Mobile Cyclone Dust Collector along with a shop vac with a dust deputy. None of it is vented outside. If I keep the door shut, I've not had any issues with dust elsewhere in our house.


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

Exhausting 1000+ CFM to the outside will negatively pressure the house possibly causing the furnace vent to become an intake, venting carbon monoxide into the soon-to-be-un-living space.

*COx* is *not* healthy indoors. This may be a fatally bad idea. Talk to a HVAC pro.

You can easily test air infiltration/infiltration with a smoke bomb or smoky candle. Set up next to the furnace and kick on the DC and see (literally) which way the wind blows. A spider web on a twig is very sensitive to air flow.


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## AndyJ1s (Jan 26, 2019)

> CO, CO, CO. Venting outside will bring CO down the chimney and into the house. You will lose heat, but that will not kill you. CO does. I had blocked attic vents caused by cottonwood seed lint. The attic fan pulled air down three stories, out the boiler, and back up to the fan. And an attic fan does not move near the air that a DC does. Without CO detectors, myself and my family would be DEAD!!! Spend the money on a good DC, because if the CO doesn t get you, the fine dust will.
> 
> - ibewjon


Not to contradict your main point, with which I agree, but…

It depends on what you mean by "attic fan": an attic-ventilating fan, or a whole house attic fan (that pulls air out of the house, into the attic, with makeup air supplied through open windows.)

My parents' whole house attic fan was rated at ~6000 CFM, with a 30" fan and a 1/3 HP motor. Most dust collectors move less than half that. But then attic fans don't suck air through a soda straw either. Multiple windows were opened to bring in cool, fresh air.


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

Attic fan doesn't pull much neg pressure in basement.

1000+ CFM exhaust blower *IN BASEMENT* will have much larger effect even at lower CFM.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

That is the point. An attic fan, not a whole house fan, pulled the CO down the chimney and back to the attic because the vents were blocked. A 2 hp or whatever size DC venting outside can kill.


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## Jeremiah873 (Feb 28, 2020)

Thanks everyone…I really needed some output. Im steering towards the jet two horse vortex canister DC. Anyone use this specific one? 1.5 hp isn't gonna cut it so 2 is where my eyes are set .


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

Mine is a hybrid DC. It started as a 2hp North State chip collector because it had bags, and spread more fine dust into the air, but that was about 30 years ago. When jet started selling the filter as a part, I converted my DC to the Jet pleated filter and plastic collection bag. When the vortex cone was released, I added that as well. So I have very close to the Jet, but in two different colors. It works great. I ran 26 guage 5" duct, used long radius elbows from Oneida and locally sourced duct. I bought a spot welder and made my own Y fittings, but that is a small project on its own. I would like to have a 1 micron filter on it, but I added a Wen air cleaner and that picks up the fine particals. I do not have a cyclone in the system, but that should improve the results.


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## Jeremiah873 (Feb 28, 2020)

> Mine is a hybrid DC. It started as a 2hp North State chip collector because it had bags, and spread more fine dust into the air, but that was about 30 years ago. When jet started selling the filter as a part, I converted my DC to the Jet pleated filter and plastic collection bag. When the vortex cone was released, I added that as well. So I have very close to the Jet, but in two different colors. It works great. I ran 26 guage 5" duct, used long radius elbows from Oneida and locally sourced duct. I bought a spot welder and made my own Y fittings, but that is a small project on its own. I would like to have a 1 micron filter on it, but I added a Wen air cleaner and that picks up the fine particals. I do not have a cyclone in the system, but that should improve the results.
> 
> - ibewjon


Thanks man


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

The Jet lists a 2 micron filter as OEM, I think you would want one with at least 1 micron (or better) filtration (IMHO). Otherwise you're on the right track. It's the fine dust that creates problems, not the chips.


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## clagwell (Dec 20, 2018)

> The Jet lists a 2 micron filter as OEM, I think you would want one with at least 1 micron (or better) filtration (IMHO). Otherwise you re on the right track. It s the fine dust that creates problems, not the chips.
> 
> - Fred Hargis


You bring up an interesting question Fred. What's the real difference between one filter that's advertised as "1 micron filtration" versus another that says "filters to 2 micron"? If there's no efficiency number given for those particle sizes what do you assume? 50%? 20%? 80%? How do you actually compare them if the specs are incomplete? Do you simply have to trust the marketing people?


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## Jeremiah873 (Feb 28, 2020)

That's what I've been finding out also. Some say it doesn't matter down that small…some highly disagree. I was thinking the jet vortex…then upgrade to the wynn nano filter..down to something like .5 micron. 
Or…..just stick with the standard 2 micron they offer.
Thanks for the replies. Keep em coming.


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## Sawdust2012 (Sep 17, 2013)

Why not get the Jet with the 30 micron bag, and buy the Wynn filter at the same time. It's close to the same cost as the Jet with the canister. Those filters seem to last a really long time.


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## Sawdust2012 (Sep 17, 2013)

I may be way off, but I bet if you walked into just about any woodworking store right now with a mess of cash in your pocket, you could leave with a real good deal on a floor model. I was just looking at the Jet you mentioned. It has a couple of really good features that would be important to me whatever direction I went. The impeller is 12", and it pulls close to 12" of static pressure. My opinion and experience are worth what you are paying for them, but those seem to me to be what I would want in the DC. The Vortex Cone, and cool handle thing on the filter are sort of like the wipers Mercedes used to put on headlights. It looked really cool, but I don't know anyone who ever missed them. In fact, I'd take a good blower motor and big impeller over the vortex cone, even if Jennifer Anniston was wearing it as a nightie. I reserve the right to reconsider at a later time. The belabored point being, the basic components can't be easily altered. You can add a Super Dust Deputy later to serve the same purpose as the cone. Find something used or new with good static pressure, good CFM, and a good motor. Attach it to a Wynn .5 mic filter and some sort of separator. If you want to, hang a Wen air cleaner from the ceiling. You will have pharmaceutical plant quality air for a long time,


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

> You bring up an interesting question Fred. What s the real difference between one filter that s advertised as "1 micron filtration" versus another that says "filters to 2 micron"? If there s no efficiency number given for those particle sizes what do you assume? 50%? 20%? 80%? How do you actually compare them if the specs are incomplete? Do you simply have to trust the marketing people?
> 
> - clagwell


Well, you don't want to trust the marketing people, they are the ones that gave us 120V motors that produce 6.5 HP. I look at this way, the ad lists the best case (the 2 micron) and to me that's not good enough. Reputable firms such as Wynn are believable, but other companies not so much. So for me, I want the filter that will get the smallest particle possible (within financial reason), which normally starts with the 1 micron, though less would be better. I like the suggestion about buying the DC with the useless bag, and then upgrading to a very good filter.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

In my case, the vortex cone serves me well. My ducting splits immediately after coming off the DC, so I would need two cyclones, and in a small shop, I don't have space for one. The cone is inside the DC. Grizzly also advertises a 1 micron filter, but I have not looked into it. And a 1 micron filter must be larger or have more filter material in the same space to allow the same air flow.


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## Jeremiah873 (Feb 28, 2020)

> In my case, the vortex cone serves me well. My ducting splits immediately after coming off the DC, so I would need two cyclones, and in a small shop, I don t have space for one. The cone is inside the DC. Grizzly also advertises a 1 micron filter, but I have not looked into it. And a 1 micron filter must be larger or have more filter material in the same space to allow the same air flow.
> 
> - ibewjon


That is my issue …space. It's why I wanted to port outside. But due to noise and CO concerns after reading all these replies I'm thinking the vortex.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

> And a 1 micron filter must be larger or have more filter material in the same space to allow the same air flow.
> 
> - ibewjon


Not really, at least according to what I've been told (by American Fabric Filter). The pores are smaller, but there are a lot more of them per square foot…therefore they breathe just as much air.


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## clagwell (Dec 20, 2018)

My question is still open. What exactly is meant when someone says "this is a 1 micron filter"? What's the efficiency and at what loading and velocity does that apply? I still think it's pointless to try to compare the performance of two different brands of filters based solely on what they are called.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

It's a valid point, but we go with what we have. Until the vendors are required to publish (which will never happen) comparable numbers we are guessing. No different than CFM ratings.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

When I talked to AFF, the size of their filter bag would have used much of my shop. They don't have pleated, so the area is spread out over a large bag. Too large for my shop.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I should have added above, the tool manufacturers should be required to provide the MERV ratings of their filtering mechanisms….that's the part that will never happen. A few do, I think Oneida does and the Clark filters from Penn State have a MERV rating. I suspect (but don't know) that Wynn does as well.


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