# Are Production Runs the Only Way to Make a Living in Woodworking?



## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

In my last ShopNotes blog, I discuss how perhaps production runs of a carefully designed piece are the only way to make a living at woodworking.

See the article here.


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## shawnmasterson (Jan 24, 2013)

IMHO A production mentality is the best way to get in and get out and make money. When I build a built in for a customer I set up and make all the cabinet boxes then start the finish and while they are drying I go into making the doors. The biggest battle with a production run is space (work and storage).


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

I agree, Shawn. Sorry about the room issue! LOL


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

Outside of literally "breaking" in to the art world, IMO yes. The maze, pitfalls, and cocktail parties, of making a name for your self in the scene where people will pay anything, and play patron to a wood worker is so rare to navigate, and requires some special talent, skill, and a lot of luck. Unless you fall into that scene, you can't beat the economy of scales that make production work the viable option… (from my personal experience, I have an art degree, but run a cabinet shop, every now and then I get lucky and get to truly work as an artist, but the other pays the bills)


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

Yes a production mind set is going to be the most effective way to make money as a woodworker, because time = money, so using some of the hobbyists suggestions around here would drive people into bankruptcy…. I mean asphaltum, really?


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

That's the way I do it; I have a basic design, and my customers can choose their desired options based on their needs/wants. The build process goes pretty much the same regardless of options chosen.

I won't retire on what I make for now, but it brings in enough to feed my tool and video game habits.


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## rrww (Aug 12, 2012)

Same here production pays the bills so I get three hours a month to "play" with something I want to do.


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## huff (May 28, 2009)

I feel like the lone ranger here! LOL

I guess if you classify using the same building techniques in your basic construction most of the time as production runs, then I did that as much as possible, but I generally made as much money (and even more) when I was doing true custom work.

For me, it was how I went about pricing my work and my time. Production work usually ties you pretty tight to competition, especially if a contractor or designer is involved, but when I did custom work, I really didn't worry about competition, because most other shops couldn't or wouldn't deal with it.

I saw a lot of shops actually pass up work because they felt they couldn't make any money doing a project simply because it was out of their normal production run and they couldn't afford the time to set up and do speciality stuff.

I/ve always felt there was a fine line between sticking too closely to production type manufacturing and not allowing yourself to be flexible enough to do both.

Making a living? Like you said; that's different from individual to individual, but I was a one man shop, making the only income for the family with a million dollars worth of medical bills and even though I don't own ocean front property or my own private island somewhere in the Pacific, I owe no one and I would do it all over again.

Just my take. LOL.


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## TravisH (Feb 6, 2013)

Of course it inst't the only way but it is the "easiest" way for most to attempt to make a go at it. I enjoy woodworking (definitely not good at it) but production runs would be less than satisfying for me. It would purely end up being a job that would have to end up matching overall benefits of my current job in the same given amount of time spent.

The issue I have with some production work is well you can tell it is just that. Corners are cut to meet the "production needs" to be profitable. Of course most of these places don't last but a few years and/or I find that the owners have a very different level of what I consider making a living.


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

*Huff, * Ii wouldn't say using the same techniques is a production run, no. Basically, it's making a bunch at one time. If you were making side tables, you'd make 20 legs, 5 tops, 5 drawers, etc, all at one time. It's efficient because you aren't setting up jigs, rip fences or dado blades as many times. It's just my opinion that specialty stuff isn't really worth it, unless it's not too hard to do, and you can charge a great price.

*TravisH* you make a good point about it getting boring. I can see that. But about cutting corners - it's not about cutting corners, in terms of not sanding correctly, using a biscuit joint, instead of mortise and tenon, etc. It's about using time more efficiently, such as setting up your table saw blade height to exactly 7/16ths, or getting that router jig set up just right - but doing it just once, instead of many times. It's a like a music group. Instead of going to my house, playing the music, then over to your house, then the neighbors, etc, they "set up" once, in a studio, and make many "cuts" once for the sake of efficiency.


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

*Huff* I see your point, the same is true for me.. but those jobs come and go… maintaining a steady stream of cost is no object work is very difficult. Short of having a gallery, an agent, and a name known to cause jealousy amongst the trophy wives and Bugatti driving set, you need production to pay the bills. I am not saying it is impossible, and the sculptural grade stuff I have had the pleasure to work on, really paid the bill, but to have that name that people hafta have, where you can one off stuff. soooo hard. Even then I would likely by doing small runs. One of my employees went out on his own, and is on the "studio tours" and such. Taking city grants for benches, and producing one of a kind furniture and woodworking pieces. Even then I advised him to make copies as he did his one offs.. veneer them in walnut or whatever, than do three paint grade and sell them on line for a quarter of the price, under a different name. There is just such a savings in doing four at once rather than just one.. why not??


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## huff (May 28, 2009)

Pashley;

Exactly my point; I never did the so called production runs and I'm the guy that got all the work everyone else felt there wasn't any money to be made at. (and made a good living doing so).

Everybody has their own feelings on the best way to make a living doing woodworking and I'm just saying that mass producing items is just one of those ways.

It has everything to do with your business model and marketing strategies . If you can manufacture and sell a bunch of the same items with a high enough profit margin, then that is the best way for you to go.

For me; I could make more money making one item that others didn't make then trying to compete with every discount store, big box store and everything made overseas.

Neither is right or wrong, it's just different ways of doing business. I'm not trying to change your mind on the best way to make money, nor will I be convinced you can't make money doing custom and specialty work.

Over the years, I've found far more woodworkers fail in business, not because which way they decide to build, but far more often because they don't understand how to price, market and sell their work.


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

*James101* The funny thing is, like *huff* says, everyone has their own way. In my shop, we do a lot of that, and I for me it is "production" work. I guess my view is from the context of a custom cabinet shop… so our production lines are set up for custom work, but still production lines. When I think custom I think like the light trellis posted in my projects, or one off furniture pieces, and such. Where there will only be one. Any thing that gets built over in the special assembly area I have set up in the shop kinda thing. I diffidently agree with the point in the OP's comment that production kinda means make several a once, instead of one off… making a living with one off's is a fortunate thing.


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

Interesting read and comments. I just finished reading "The Soul of a Tree" by Nakashima. He started off pretty small and unique; eventually had a shop which appeared to split its time between "production" type builds eg. his Conoid chair and his individually made/designed pieces. 
I've day-dreamed about doing woodworking as more than just a hobby, building Nakashima style furniture; the only way I can see this being economically viable is to have a shop in an area with a large number of deep pocketed clients or tourists.


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

*huff:* Hey, if you make money doing custom stuff, that's great. I'm not saying production runs are the only way to go; I'm still learning about the biz end! I'm just saying, it seems logical to me at this point.

*James101:* Interesting, thanks for the input! Custom does have to pay well, but is it steady work?

*joeyinsouthaustin:* Perhaps your mixed blend of semi-production, semi custom is a great way to go; you have versatility, yet production too. Hmmmm….

*Manitario:* You certainly have to have a higher-end client base for custom work, but that's where the Internet can be indispensable.


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

"...happy doing just as I am."

THat's what it's all about, brother!


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## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

Yes I based my whole business on it and went into major debt.Still running strong.Gotta make something nobody can recreate on that level but you.Usually takes 12 plus hour days 7 days a week.


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## CustomFurnitureMaker (May 24, 2013)

I've made my living doing one-off furniture for 20 years. I have a production mindset that I apply to custom work. Early on I tried doing some "runs" and I've also built a lot of doubles when I was making something I really liked for a client. The issue that I found was selling those pieces. Unless you have a regular outlet that just wants the same thing to sell over and over, it can be hard to move those pieces. I don't know how many times I've heard something like "I love it, I need one 6" shorter". If you can, for sure, sell your production runs, then yes, you can possibly make more money. If you can market one of a kind work and sell it, you can possibly make more money at that. Any fool can make nice furniture, but it takes a special kind of fool to be able to market it.


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## rhett (May 11, 2008)

You don't need to do production runs, you do however need to be highy productive with your time. Custom cabinetry is a good example. There are a million ways to make cabinets/built-ins nice. That doesn't change the core of what it takes to build them.

Work flow, order of operations, efficiency and work ethic, this is what it takes to make a living woodworking. Keeping in mind always that if your outgo exceeds your income, your upkeep becomes your downfall.

Runnig a business and running a machine are two totally different things. Partnerships, where one person handles sales, marketing and technicalities and the other handles design, construction and instalations, will result in the highest profit margins.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I would say that it is definitely one of the best ways because you probably have less material cost per piece, your labor is less per piece, and your setup time per piece drops way down.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## huff (May 28, 2009)

+1 rhett,
*You don't need to do production runs, you do however need to be highy productive with your time.*

*Runnig a business and running a machine are two totally different things.*

If you're a one man shop, then you better be good at not only running the machines, but all the other elements of running a business.

That's were the success and failures exists; usually not how we build, but can you sell it once you build it.

You can learn to build 10,000 items, but if you can't sell them for a profit, what good does it do.

I would much rather build 10 - 20 projects a year like James stated earlier, then build 100 items of the same and try to find a market and price point for them.

I've never been given a blank check to build anything for a customer, but I did take the time to find the customers that could afford my work and that kept steady work for me over the years.


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

I am in that category of building 10-20 jobs a year, all one offs, and frankly, there are times when I wonder if it's worth it - but at the same time I have no doubt I'd be able to make a decent living out of custom work if the economy wasn't in the toilet.
As to the question about batching things up to make a profit, I definitely agree that you can make huge time savings in producing multiples - it's a no brainer. Get to the point where you are rattling the same things off and hey, buy your materials in bulk too and make huge savings there as well.
To do that though, you need to have the right product and the right distribution. A bit of luck probably helps as well.
As to whether that's the only way to make money in this game though… I disagree. There will always be a market for custom woodworking, it's just tough with the economy the way it is.


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

I tried building multiples of one item but the problem I ran into is I ran out of room to store the cut pieces for the next two jobs while I was building one. That turned out to be troublesome as I was constantly moving stuff around.

Now mind you, I am retired, and not in the business to support my family, but I was trying to save some time and effort buy cutting some of the pieces both to exact length and width and some rough cut for custom fit later. I am getting a little faster and things are gong a little more smoothly mainly due to a couple of jigs that help hold my pieces in place during assy and making cutting easier (dedicated miter saw station).

But I am still working out of a one car garage. :-(


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Prodution is one way, and the other is teaching. (better is a spouse with a good job)

There have only been a handful of folks like Nakashima and Maloof that have been doing one at a time production. One could argue that Maloof was into production of his rocker… though he was getting 40K+ for each one.

Seems most of the big names in woodworking, the David Marks and such, turn to teaching full or part time, or podcasts like the wood whisperer with guilds and advertisers - - but that is at its heart teaching.

In todays economy that wants instant everything - being an artist (solely) is not possible unless you have NEA grants.

Just making one off "cool to you" pieces to sell off is a path to starvation.


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

*DrDirt*" (better is a spouse with a good job)"

aha… I have neglected to note that the ex-employee of mine, that I have been referencing in this thread, does have a girl with a good job. That is probably why I do so much production work…. my wife quit her job as soon as I started making a little money.


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Pashley

I guess I need more info. Are you talking about starting a new business or helping an established one?

Arlin


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

"I guess I need more info. Are you talking about starting a new business or helping an established one?

Arlin"

Could be either, but I guess I was speaking to an established biz already. My simple point wqs, it's more time effiecent, and probably more accurate to do runs of "widgets" as opposed to doing a whole one, setting up all the stuff again, making another whole one, etc.


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## huff (May 28, 2009)

pashley,

You really started a good thread here and I've enjoyed reading all the responses. It's pretty clear there is not a right or wrong answer or which is the best way to go.

I depends totally on the woodworker and what his "business plan" or "business model" is.

A woodworker that tries to have a business, but has no plan on what they are going to build and sell or how they are going to build it and sell it; usually spends their entire woodworking career ( short or long) struggling.

That was one of the very first decisions I had to make when I decided to have my own business; was I going to build a lot of items fast and cheap and market for that type product, or was I going to do strictly custom work and market for that type of work.

I never considered myself an artist, so thinking of making one of a kind(usually wildly contemporary stuff) and trying to market to that type clientle never entered my business plan.

I chose to go strictly custom work because I knew it would drive me totally bananna's cutting out numerous item of the same thing, day in and day out and that was not why I wanted to do woodworking.

Making 40 doors for a custom kitchen was about all I could take of production runs and thank goodness, I only did one or two kitchen a year! lol

It doesn't matter which way we decide to go; but what does matter is; we can make good use of our time, price our work to make a profit and then know how to market it and sell it.

Economic downturns never really affected my business that much, but I believe that had to do with my marketing. I didn't rely on anyone else to do the selling for me; I never relied on contractors (usually the first to feel the pinch of a recession), or designers, other stores to sell my work or other people to do my selling(except my referrals from my previous customers).

Like I've said before; it doesn't matter how good of a craftsman you are, whether you build 100 items or one, if you don't know how to market it and sell your work, then you will end up being broke.

I always felt I would much rather build one item for $1,000 (commissioned) then to build 10 items at $100ea. (on speculation) and hope I could get all 10 sold to be able to generate my total profit.

For every one of those 10 items that I'm not able to sell, or it takes months and months to find the customers to buy them, then either I don't make a profit or it took me months to truly generate the final sale to realize the prifits ( in the mean time, I could build 2 or 3 more commissioned jobs) and spend my extra time marketing myself then spending it trying to retrieve a profit from 10 items I build in a production run.

Again; if you have a way to market 10 items of the same thing, and they sell in a reasonable length of time and for a decent profit, then that is definitely the way to go.

I would recommend any woodworker that is struggling trying to make money in this business, should revisit their business plan (or create a business plan if you don't have one) so you have a road map for success.

"Wondering" around will either get you nowhere or someplace you may not want to go!


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

Good points!

It does matter what you are in it for - more for the creating custom pieces, or selling a lot of pieces, and hopefully making money on both.

My money is on a blend - production runs (let's say craftsman clocks) for your everyday break and butter, and the occasional large commission for the kid's college fund.

I'm glad so many guys have shared their opinion. Again, I don't have all the answers, I want to learn more.


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## Puzzleman (May 4, 2010)

Hello all! Haven't chimed in as I was attending an art show last week.

I make personalized items for children and adults. I have set up my production that even though each piece is unique due to the personalization, they are all made the same way. When I create a new product, I make sure that it fits into the production flow as I have my shop set up. I work to order. I don't start an item intil I have an order for it.

Some would call what I do production work as the procedure is consistently the same. Keeps the quality the same. The customer knows what they are getting. However, each piece is created individually for the particular customer. I don't create stock ahead.

My point is that I think that it has to be a mix of production (repetitive) work and custom work.

As far as the people making custom cabinets or whatever, when you make a door you use the same procedures as the door before. You don't go to square one and figure it out all over again.


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## huff (May 28, 2009)

Jim,
Glad you chimed in; was wondering where you where?

You probably offer the best blend of so called production flow and custom work combined into one.

Hope you will add more insight into your business, so we can better understand how the two elements can blend together in our businesses.


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

Perhaps doing production runs of a base model, while being to easily add some customization (or making a different version of the same model) is the best of all…


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## Puzzleman (May 4, 2010)

Pashley, That is kind of what I do. I will discuss one of my items.

My Name Stool line can be made over 1,800 different wasy before the personalization of the name. The Name Stools are created with the letters puzzled out inside the stool top. Options include 3 different lengths, Engraving on the back, Classic style, 2 Step style, Flip Back style, Primary or Pastel painted letters, Custom letter pattern, Clear Lacquer finish or choice of over 20 different paints or stains, Choice of 7 different themes. Then on top of all that, I make them with whatever name you desire no matter how it is spelled. I also do names in Hebrew, Cyrillic and Arabic.

Each stool starts out with a basic rectangular shape. I have 3 different lengths based upon the length of the name and/or the customer's request. Most of the stools are of the Classic variety, they have dowel type legs which screw into the bottom. For the 2 Step and Flip Back, which have different types of legs, we do not put the holes into the bottom for the screw insert. This is noted on the production sheet for that day. When the stools are cut, the cutter marks the ones with no legs. When the frames go to the builder, he segregates those and builds them before starting on the Classic style. The build process is straight forward. The inside is rounded over on a router table. Next step it to sand the round overs and the backs of the stool faces. The backs are glued and nailed on. Some of the stools have been marked by the cutter as they will have an engraved back. These are coordinated by order number to ensure the engraves go with the correct face. Next step is to sand the sides smooth on an edge sander. Then the outside top is rounded over. That round over is then sanded. Next the stools are drilled in the back to accept a threaded insert. Once the inserts are put in, we check the sides for holes and fill them. Then a final sanding of the sides. Then off to the finish area. On the production sheet are marked stools that are to be stained or painted one of 20 different colors. The rest are just lacquered. The finisher takes care of finishing the stools appropriately as ordered. Once done, the drying cart is pushed up front, where the painted letters have been sanded and awaiting the frames. Letters are dropped into the appropriate frames. The Classic stools are taken to the packing area for quality control and shipping. The 2 Step and Flip back stools are taken to the front build area where they are assembled and taken to the packing area.

This is the basic procedure. Each stool is made to order due to all of the options and personalization. So I do make them in production runs but am able to make custom at the same time.

If questions or more info needed, let me know.


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

*Puzzleman*, you are doing what I was speaking of. You seem to have a basic design that sells, so you make batch runs of them, and then customize as needed.

Seems to be working.


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## zeebro (Dec 13, 2013)

I grew up in the antique/ used furniture business. This was always a favorite topic of conversation. Thank you Pashley for your posts.


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## Puzzleman (May 4, 2010)

Just an update of how production runs can help. Each item I do is personalized with a different name but the build processes are basically the same as detailed above. Because of this standardization, my crew and I were able to produce 120 products per day for 13 days straight. And the quality of the first was as good as the quality of the last. Because the procedures are in place and followed, the quality stays the same. When you follow the procedures, it is easy to do. This is how production runs can make money while making personalized to order at the same time.

I must be doing something right as the quantity of units sold has increased by over 30% from last year. And that year was up by 26% from the year before. You can make money doing woodworking, just find your niche and learn how to sell, sell and sell some more.


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