# How can I tell if I have 220 to my garage?



## jaydubya (Sep 13, 2010)

The previous owner of my house did some strange things here. I have a fusebox in my garage/shop and am trying to determine whether it has 220 run to it or not. the box has 4 small glass fuses for the outlets and light sockets, and above it has 2 pull-out "sleds", each with 2 large fuses (about 3 inches long x 3/4 wide). One is the main, and the other is marked "range". Should the one marked range have 220? Can I measure it with my multimeter to find out? Im hoping i already have 220 so I can purchase 220 tools from now on and reewire my tablesaw for 220, as well as run a medium size 220 mig welder


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## oldretiredjim (Nov 14, 2011)

sounds like the guy used an old box. labels might not mean anything. the power comes from somewhere. that is where you will get your answer. a typical residence has a point where the service enters a house. be where the meter is. someplace there is a main breaker box and the probability is there is a breaker for the garage. that breaker will answer you question.


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## MJCD (Nov 28, 2011)

Glass Fuses …; not sure I'd want to start messing with this. 220 requires two separate 110 lines to the 'breaker' or fuse. While a range is typically 220, just because it's labelled 'range' doesn't mean a whole lot. Your Volt meter is the only way to be dead sure, and with 220, if you get it wrong, you can be (this is why the US decided to go 110/120 in Residential, while the rest of the known universe, save Japan and a few other countries, are 220V.

I'm unsure of what country you in - in the States virtually all hand power tools are 110v - unfortunately. Certainly, the mig and the tablesaw should be wired 220.

Start with the voltmeter; also, I'd be concerned with the number of amps which you have available.
MJCD


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

I'd get an electrician to change your sub panel over to modern breakers and look in the houses' main panel and let you know how much capacity you have. A lot of people used to put ranges in the garage to do canning so the heat and steam would stay out of the kitchen and that may be why that says that, but let someone who knows more take a look at it.


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## Johnnn (Sep 21, 2012)

Weird coincidence - this morning one of my coworkers showed me a photo of her fusebox, to ask about turning off power to a light in her house, and it's exactly like you describe. Yes, the "range" sled is holding two fuses which are intended to feed a 220v circuit. The screw-in fuses are each intended to feed a 110v circuit. Is this fusebox dedicated to the garage, or does it feed the whole house? If the former, you should be able to use that 220v circuit for machinery without too much worry. If the latter, you might be able to, but you'll probably run into current limitations if other 220v electrical items (clothes dryer, hot water heater, electric heat?) are used in the house at the same time.

If someone really did do some strange things, it's possible that they used the two "range" fuses as separate circuits, each getting 110v, and if they're on the same phase, you can't get 220v out of the box. You can measure the 220v if you like. Just pull out that sled, put your meter on VAC mode, and see what you get when you touch the probes to the two input sides of the sled's connectors. Just don't lick anything! Seriously, be careful not to short anything out if you do decide to poke around in there. There's a reason those boxes are not used in modern construction.

-John


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## Everett1 (Jun 18, 2011)

eww, old fuses.

step one - replace that with a breaker box


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## jaydubya (Sep 13, 2010)

The fusebox is only dedicated to the garage, which used to be a freestanding structure but had an addition on the house built out to it. the house has its own more modern breaker box. I have nothing in the house that runs on 220. everything is gas although I do have 2 double breakers in the breaker box in the house. double breakers are usually 220 right?


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## Poppy3 (Oct 11, 2012)

Is the garage attached or detached.. if it's detached, do the lines go overhead or underground and what is their size (as a rule of thumb, 220 should be run through 8-3 of it's an attached garage, if its detached, you need to compute the loss due to the length of wire). If its underground, you will need to run an additional ground wire from your load panel in the house to the sub panel in the garage, and then from the garage panel to a grounding rod driven into the ground.

I've seen some strange and dangerous set ups in my time… be careful!


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

grounding rods are supposed to be "bonded". Meaning you need to run a bare #6 from one grounding rod to another if you have more than one.


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## jaydubya (Sep 13, 2010)

The garage WAS detatched, but then the house was built out to meet the garage, so now its attatched. Im not sure exactly how the wiring runs. It might be underground, or it might have been run through the house when the addition was done


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## Tedstor (Mar 12, 2011)

Electricians can be pricey. But it sounds like it'd be worth every penny in this case.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

If you have to ask if you can use a multimeter to check the fuse block for the presence of 220Volts, I would strongly suggest you call an electrician. . . and sell that meter.


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## jaydubya (Sep 13, 2010)

I think Ill keep the meter. I use it pretty extensively in my car audio hobby…


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## REO (Sep 20, 2012)

Hmmm. some curious opinions here!? As you have been told you can check for 220. Pull the mains "sled" and check across the top terminals. The mains are just like the main breaker in a breaker box they limit the total current demand of the box. The range fuses were typically for the Range which was a large consumer and when this was installed the only use of 220 in a home. Since then Water heaters and air conditioning have been added to the need for 220. The glass screw in circuits were for general use circuits like the outlets, lighting and refrigerator. As far as the feed for the box and the Main fuses if you have #8 wire you are good for 40 amps PER leg. If you have #6 you are good for 60 amps PER leg. the internal connections in the box were rated and the sockets will allow only one particular size of fuse to be installed in the screw sockets. You are kind of limited but For a small shop it could be totally doable.


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## EEngineer (Jul 4, 2008)

The only one that makes any sense here is REO. The rest…

eww, old fuses.
Why say that? Fuses used to be all we had and they protect circuits just as well. Granted, for new work, I think you would be crazy to use them, but for existing circuits - they work and they are safe!

If its underground, you will need to run an additional ground wire from your load panel in the house to the sub panel in the garage … and then from the garage panel to a grounding rod driven into the ground.
Since NEC 2011 (maybe earlier), the additional ground wire is always required. Attached, detached, underground, overhead, whatever… You may be "grandfathered", but I think the separate ground wire has significant safety advantages! The grounding rods depend on how the wire is run. For instance, metal pipe from the main structure to the garage can serve as a ground with restrictions (NEC Handbook search detached building grounding subpanel).

Your Volt meter is the only way to be dead sure, and with 220, if you get it wrong, you can be (this is why the US decided to go 110/120 in Residential, while the rest of the known universe, save Japan and a few other countries, are 220V.
Ahhh, bullcrap! You can be just as dead with 110VAC! It all depends on how well you connect! You need to treat 110 circuits with the same care you do 220!


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

DON'T MESS WITH IT! Every one is giving you advice as to how to test, if you are unfamiliar with electrical theory or the electrical history of your structure ("Should the one marked range have 220?") then just hire a pro. It will be safe and legal. And you will not get fried trying to save a few hundred dollars.


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## EEngineer (Jul 4, 2008)

DON'T MESS WITH IT!

Yep! That's the American way! C'mon, this isn't rocket science, friend.

And you will not get fried trying to save a few hundred dollars.

Spoken just like Mitt Romney! Maybe, just maybe, some people don't have a few hundred dollars to spare. Good to know that you are well enough off that a "few hundred dollars" is nothing to you!

I said it before and I'll say it again - You need to treat 110 circuits with the same care you do 220! Alittle bit of common sense and a little bit of knowledge will get you through house wiring without killing you!


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

*A little bit of common sense and a little bit of knowledge will get you through house wiring without killing you!*

while i have an interest in wiring and plumbing, and do my own work, i know my limits. "a little bit of common sense…." my only word of possible caution here is that what's common to one person may well be a mystery to another. research first, double check your findings and then, if you're comfortable with the results of your research, proceed cautiously. good luck.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

As EE says, nothing wrong with fuses. They are safer than most brands of circuit breakers being installed in residential and some commercial structures these days.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

I can add circuits and run electric service, but when someone doesn't really have a clue what they are looking at then I say let someone who does look first. Yes, having a couple of hundred dollars for hiring an electrician to get a stamp from an inspector when I'm in over my head makes me fabulously wealthy. "Spoken just like Mitt Romney" - what an idiotic comment to make about someone.


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## Tedstor (Mar 12, 2011)

"The American way"????

Calling an electrician is un-American?? LOL. I'm a fairly avid DIY'r. I'm usually the first person to encourage someone to DIY. I've run a couple circuits to my own garage. 
But the OPs situation sounded somewhat off-the-wall to me. In such cases, the services of an expert might be in order.


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

If you're unsure what to do , Hire a pro …sleep well at night knowing that the job was done correctly and safely : )


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## cutworm (Oct 2, 2010)

2 pull out fuses. You have 220. I would invest in a new box. A 60 amp should be good for a shop / garage.


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## teejk (Jan 19, 2011)

there must be a breaker at source. if that is 240v then you can pretty much be assured you have 240v in the garage…main lugs in your garage subpanel from the source should show 120v each leg. then just like a modern breaker panel, it splits into 120v bars (and I use 240/120 because that's what they are!). Hook two hots together with a single/tied breaker gets you back to 240 (not so sure how you do that with only 4 fuse holes in the box).

but all that aside, time for a "sparky". I would be more concerned about proper grounding than anything else (although in that regard my "pro" was pretty lax on it as was the satellite TV guy)...and wire size should be checked as well…I've known people to install oversized breakers for the wire size since the latter goes up in price depending on size.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

After having thought about this for a bit and seeing a few of the responses, you need to check across the hots in the panel with a volt meter to know what the voltage is. It doesn't matter how many fuses are in the blacks. It could be fed with 120 and jumpered between the hots.

In the last 44 years, I have seen a lot of installations that border on arson.

Just a couple of days ago, I was in the commercial building a large international fast food chain. I was surprised to see a panel feed with onlt 120 volts in a building with 3 phase power. The worst I remember was a school with 14/2 feeding a sub panel with 60 amp fuses. The bare ground was being used for the neutral and there was no ground.

The fact you have a previous owner doing a lot of odd things (your statement) makes me cringe if he installed a fuse panel of that vintage. It is a totally illegal installation under today's code unless it is an existing panel re fed when a new service panel was installed.

It is probably time to call a pro for a little advice.


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## jaydubya (Sep 13, 2010)

Just to revisit this a little , i opened up the panel and this is what i found. there are 2 large black wires (6 or 8 gauge) feeding 2 seperate inputs on the top left. On the top right where it is marked "range" there is nothing. there is a white wire of the same size as the 2 black wires that is grounded. each of the 2 black wires measures 120-125v


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

where do the black wires originate? at the service entrance or are they from a main panel elsewhere?


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## jaydubya (Sep 13, 2010)

They originate at a double breaker in the main panel in the house.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

If you have a main and a range outlet, there is 240v there. Might not be anything besides just the 240v though. You need a new box with breakers.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

The black wires that come from the main panel off a double breaker are feeding this box you've shown a couple comments above, right. What is the amp of the breaker in the main box? It should have numbers on the toggle switch.
You'll want it to be a 60 or 80 amp breaker that feeds the shop. More if you have large 240v tools. It's rather simple to replace the box in the workshop if you can totally cut the power. Lowes has panels that you can hook up in no time. It's not as hard as you may think.


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## jaydubya (Sep 13, 2010)

Yes, Those wires are feeding the garage/shop panel. The breaker in the main panel is a double 50 amp breaker. Dont know if that makes it 100 amps?


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

I'd pop that out and take it to an electrical parts store and get an 80A. Replace the 50A. You'll still have 240 volts in the garage if you have tools that require it. You'll also have about 4 20A runs you can make to other tools. You can only use one tool at a time, so what I do is run one 20A to about 4 outlets spaced where I need them, and I run a 15A along the ceiling so I have a place to plug in my lighting and maybe a hand tool like a sander. If you have a DC keep it on it's own circuit. I'd also replace the box in the garage. Buy your parts ahead of time and have an electrician do the work. If you need a parts list I can help you out.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

If the home is old enough, then the main house has been updated with a breaker box and they didn't update the garage. 
Each black wire to the white wire should read 120v and across the black wires it should read 240v. The fuse on the left is the main, the one on the right is for a range hook up so it is also 240v. The smaller fuses along the bottom are 120v. I don't see a dedicated ground, so the white is also being used as a common and ground. A lot of older homes did this. Mine for example was built in the early 60's and has no separate ground wire. The white wires tie into an earth ground that goes into the ground outside the home. When you replace the box in the garage you'll have a dedicated ground, so no worries.


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## MedicKen (Dec 2, 2008)

When you stick a screwdriver in the outlet, 220V will knock you back twice as far as 110V…....Honestly, have an electricain look at it


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

about the WORST thing you could do is replace the 50A double pole breaker in the main panel with an 80A double pole breaker. the black wires going from the main panel to the existing sub panel DO NOT appear to be 4 gauge wire, which is the appropriate wire size for an 80A breaker. no, because there is a double 50A breaker in the main panel, that DOES NOT mean there are 100 amps going to the sub panel. there are 50A going to the sub panel. your sub panel, assuming it's wired with 6 gauge wire, will max out at 60A. i'd leave the 50A breaker in the main panel alone and get some onsite advice. i do not see how that box is grounded, and proper grounding is essential to safe electrical wiring.

if there is a ground wire between the main panel and the sub panel, it's a really simple operation to change the sub panel and install 110v and 220v breakers as you wish. 50A should be more than adequate for a hobbyist workshop and allow for a few 20A 110v multi outlet general use circuits, a 15A 110v circuit for shop lighting and two 20A 220v home runs, one for a power tool and the other for a 1.5 - 2 hp dust collector.

and FTR, medicken is right. 110v mistakes make you tingle with, usually, no long term harm. the wrong mistake with 220v could be fatal. if you are not comfortable with electrical supply wiring, either learn how to handle it safely or refer ti to someone who is qualified to handle it. safety first.

but the short answer to your opening question about 220v being availalble at the sub panel is yes. the easiest way to realize the usefulness of the leads coming from the main panel is to upgrade the sub panel. and have an electrician check if the two black feed wires are aluminum or copper. in the pic you posted, it looks like there is a bit of shiny wire near the connection point of the rightmost black wire. aluminum is not bad, it just needs to be handled properly with equipment (breakers/outlets/switches) designed for aluminum.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

You can put the 80A in just fine as long as you restore the 50 if you sell the house. You're not going to be using anywhere near 80A anyway, but it will allow you to route 4 20A breakers and at least have the garage done up right. I bet its not too hard to replace the wiring to the garage anyway with something that could take 80A.

The point is, that you need to feed the garage with enough juice to handle future needs. Doing it yourself is the best way even if you need to call an electrician out before you throw the switch. I did all my own and had an buddy of mine that is a licensed electrician come take a look. He said it was fine and a bit overkill. Electric panels are easy to set up and mount. After that call someone out to wire it up. You'll save some money that way.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

*You can put the 80A in just fine as long as you restore the 50 if you sell the house*

You have got to be kidding! This is what I hate about do it your-selfers; know just enough to get into trouble. Last job I looked at where the homeowner bought the parts was a disaster for him. Nothing he had was applicable to what he wanted to accomplish.

BTW, most of the guys who think they have been bit by 220 really just got hit by one leg to ground; 120. Voltages higher than 120 will get your attention and you will not forget it! Trust me on this one ;-)


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

*110v mistakes make you tingle with, usually, no long term harm*
I would try this. We could ask my cousin about the 110V drill motor he was working on….No we can't, They buried him. His wife was present and tried to do CPR unsuccessfully I might add. Some told her that if you got shocked at the right time the heart couldn't be stopped. I said this sounds a bit far fetched to me so I will find out. I asked a doctor friend and he said that is correct. If the heart it shocked just after it receives the electric discharge that our body gives it to make it beat them it usually can't be stopped. I wouldn't chance that timing myself. An electric shock is not something to mess around with.

BTW I think there are more people killed with 110V than 220V. Check those statistics then talk about it.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

More people killed by 110 than any other voltage. #1 it is the most common usage voltage and #2, most people that think they got higher really didn't.


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

grandpa ........ you will note that my statement was USUALLY. there are exceptions. i have taken quite a few unintended 110v hits and it's more annoying than anything else. true, i wasn't standing in a puddle of water at the time, which undoubtedly would have made it fatal.

topamaxsurvivor …..... thanks for saving me the trouble of replying to russellap's comment. even with a 50A main panel feed, an 8 slot sub panel could be safely wired with 4 110v breakers and 2 220v breakers.

the danger in changing the 50A breaker to an 80A breaker on wired sized for a 50A breaker is that, should a situation arise where the draw exceeds 50A (addition of electrical heaters or silmilar high draw appliances), the wires from the main panel to the sub panel will begin to overheat as the main panel breaker will not trip until the current draw exceeds that of an 80A breaker. by that time, the wires rated for 50A will have overheated, melted their insulation and when something combustible contacts those wires, well, that's where electrical fires come from. the breaker is there to protect the wire.

the average hobbyist shouldn't need anything more than 50-60A. i'm running 110v and 220v tools in my small shop all on a 30A sub panel, with no breaker trippings. "more power!" isn't always the answer.


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## REO (Sep 20, 2012)

OH MY! more poor information! |To second third and fourth some others posts. DO NOT sub the 50 with an 80. You already have 100 amps. 50 amps per leg. the panel you have will serve you well! there is nothing hoked to the range side yet. The rest of the wireing is already there for lights and existing outlets. apparently there is nothing hooked up to the range fuses yet use that. Not that I am suggesting it be done. years ago the voltage tester was the thumb and forefinger of one hand, not a joke, actually taught and expected in technical colleges!
This has become many things besides informative. Funny because some who should know better don't. Scary because some of those who don't know better think they do. dangerous because someone has to rely on making the correct choice concerning all the information that has been given. Some of it WAY off! At this point I would have to change my stance and say find someone who knows.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

So leave the 50A in the main box, jeez, I thought the guy might like to have some voltage in the shop.

It matters little because you have a breaker in the garage which is going to trip so the load back to the main house box is nothing. No burning wires.

You don't want to trip the 50A house breaker unless you somehow manage to pull more than 50 A in the garage. How many tools does it take to pull 50A.

So if he has a wood bending steamer going, and a DC running in the background and decides to use the mitersaw, he may come close to that 50A. This is why I suggest an 80A breaker feeding the main and yes change the wire to a 4 or 6 gauge if it makes you feel better. Chances are the copper in his existing wire is better than anything he'll get new.

I suggest an 80A from the main because he has a 200A service, so he can spare it. No home uses that much power.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

@TopamaxSurvivor "You have got to be kidding! This is what I hate about do it your-selfers; know just enough to get into trouble. Last job I looked at where the homeowner bought the parts was a disaster for him. Nothing he had was applicable to what he wanted to accomplish."

This may be the case, but not always. If he goes to an electrical parts dealer he'll get quality parts and some advise.

All I'm saying is that he needs some voltage in that garage because he says in the main post he want's to buy 240V tools. The electrical set up he has now isn't enough in that case. A double 80A breaker feeding would be more along the requirements his shop is likely to grow into.

I'd run all the wire myself, from the main box to the garage and run my plugs in the garage. I'd buy and mount a box and connect it all myself. I'd call a licensed electrician to check it all out.

If this is wrong in some way, tell me what. 
It's the cheapest way out for Jaydubya.


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## muleskinner (Sep 24, 2011)

Russell, the size of the breaker or fuse has no effect on the voltage (until it blows, that is, then the load side is zero).


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

@muleskinner yes, but you don't want it to trip the house breaker at all, that's why you have a box in the garage. If any tripping is to be done, there is where you want it to happen. Just like your house, you want individual breakers to trip, not the main. With as many 240V tools as Jaydudya wants, he needs a bigger service.


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

Take your multimeter and read the voltage at the end of any extension cord you have in the house… play with it…
Set the range to cover 220 and measure away… get used to it… Then, you can play with it in the garage…

I think 220 receptacles are different… use different plugs, etc. That would be a big clue of it being 220 & not 110.

Maybe you can call your power company on the telephone, and ask them questions & maybe they can send someone out to look at it for you… They are pretty good that way… They will NOT fix anything… just tell you about what you have…

Same way with the Gas Co. for a gas range… They are more than happy to come out & check things out & tell about things that are wrong & what needs to be done to fix it.

Where are you?

Pictures would help.


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## muleskinner (Sep 24, 2011)

Russell, the breaker is sized for the wire not convenience. Besides, he's going to have to be a busy little beaver to get enough of his tools running and loaded up enough to trip a 50A main.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

@muleskinner. You never know. 50A with a couple things running like a 240V TS cutting some heavy lumber with a dull blade, and dust collection, maybe a space heater. You can get to 50A pretty quickly.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Russell, I'm sorry, but you have to know what you are talking about and have some knowledge of the code and proper procedures to have a discussion. If you want a series rated system, over sizing the over current protection is not the way to go about it. The only instance where increasing the breaker to 80 is under the 25 foot tap rule. The picture shows an aluminum conductor in a copper only connection. There were no aluminum rated panels of that vintage to my knowledge. Further more, most circuit breakers will hold an overload, including a short circuit, long enough to do significant damage. CH and Sq D are the 2 notable exceptions that actually work. There may be a lot of contractors out there who will inspect DYI wiring and "approve it," but I will not. That is the job of the authority having jurisdiction.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Okay,
It's been fun though. Hope he gets it done.


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## jaydubya (Sep 13, 2010)

I think the number of tools that i want is irrelevant. as long as I am working by myself I will never have more than one tool and maybe a dust collector going at the same time (heat is gas). All i really need to know is if I had 220 so i could have one of my electrician friends come out and wire up an outlet (they both live 60 miles away). I really dont want to mess with the expense and effort of running new wire. I just went out and measured across the hots and got 246v


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Check between the 2 hots with your volt meter. Looks like you should with the feeders coming form a 2 pole breaker.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

You got what you are looking for. you do have 240V. You also have a double tap under the fuse on the left side of the panel. this will not meet code. Just don't make the wire that you are using for your service the fuse. If you use a circuit breaker that is for a larger service than the wire then the wire becomes the fuse so it burns out before the breaker can trip. As Topo has stated there are some breakers that don't trip as soon as they should. Some of those have lost their UL rating and maybe others should. My insurance company will no longer insure homes with fuse panels in them because it is too easy to cheat with fuses. Pennies never burn out so they have refuse to insure those homes. Go buy a Sq D panel at home Depot and have it installed by a professional. You will sleep better at night.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*DO NOT MESS WITHIT, IT CAN KILL!* Call an electrician to check it out and make sure it is up to code, preferably with newer components! I don't know where you live and the codes there but in CA outdoor outlets are required to use GFI and I consider my garage outside my house!

I just had 220 installed in my garage buy a certified electrician because I am too old to go into crawl spaces.

I had a branch circuit for 40A installed with its own disconnect and a GFI breaker in the main panel. All I had available was a 20A 110 for what ever tool I plugged into it!

*These guys are GOOD!* Not only did they install everything as I asked but they cleaned up everything including the stucco debris and swept up my entire patio … not really required!


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

*All i really need to know is if I had 220 so i could have one of my electrician friends come out and wire up an outlet *

the wires that bring power to that small sub panel provide the opportunity for a 220v outlet. but if you are having someone experienced with wiring help you, i'd humbly suggest replacing what's there now with a new (at least) 8 slot circuit breaker equipped sub panel. it'll be safer than what's there now and make future power distribution within the shop easier and safer. for example, the two wires drawing power form the first fuse on the left could be placed on their own individual breakers. "double tapping" (2 load carrying conductors drawing power from the same fuse/circuit breaker), as has been pointed out previously, is never a good idea and is probably a code violation. materials should be < $100 and take an experienced electrician around 1 hour. just my $.02.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

Novice, I believe the code for GFCI is in the NEC. The state or local authority could have a more strict code but I don't theionk they can have less than the NEC. I believe GFCI is required on all kitchen counter surfaces, in bathrooms (all receptacles not just at the sink) in garages, outdoors and within 20 ft. of a pool or spa. I felt like my shop was very close to a garage so I put in GFCI on ALL my 110V. Didn't really cost that much more and this IS a safety issue.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

Grandpa that may be true for new construction but old construction may not nave GFI on outdoor outlets even though both the NC and local codes may differ.

My neighbors house was built in 1964 and only has GFI outlets in the bathrooms because he had them installed!

My house was built at the same time but was remodeled about 18 years ago before I bought it and the kitchen has all GFI outlets but my outdoor ones are not (except for the one I installed) as no remodeling was done there.

I agree with you about safety and GFI, why gamble?


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## wjbclocks (Oct 6, 2012)

It should be cheaper to pay an electrican than buying a new house. BE CAREFUL electicty can kill


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

I agree with others- get an electrician to replace the box. I lived in a house that had the old screw-in fuses and the tube fuses. 90 amp service wouldn't handle the appliances we had. The house was built when no one had anything bigger than one range and/or a clothes dryer. When we had a couple of the tube fuses (cardboard body) burn through, we replaced the box with breakers.
"all GFI outlets" 
On a circuit requiring GFCI outlets, the only one needed is the first one in the line from the breaker box. The rest downstream can be regular outlets. This may differ depending on local code. Or, you could have a GFCI breaker installed; this is what I have for the kitchen, bathrooms and outdoor outlets. Definitely you need protection for the outdoor circuits or anywhere you can have moisture or water.


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