# Plane Information/Dating Question



## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I picked up these three mongrels on eBay the other day for a grand total of $22.00 + $10.95 shipping. That's just under $11 each for you fellow liberal arts majors. 










The one on the right intrigued me, because I'd never seen that particular craftsman logo before. It was pretty grungy, but as soon as I started cleaning it up, I could tell it was in excellent condition.

This is a #4 size, and I'm pretty sure it was made by Sargent because of the shape of the lateral adjustment lever and the fact that "409" is cast into the bottom of the frog. Because the japanning was virtually 100% intact, as was the chrome plating on the lever cap, I started to think this was a fairly recent plane, maybe some sort of anniversary edition. But everything I've been able to find indicates that Sargent only made early Craftsman planes.














































So is anyone able to shine any light on the history of this little beauty?


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

I don't know anything about either of them, but that little Craftsman #4 sure cleaned up nice!


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Charlie,
Can't help you with the dating but you are really doing a great job cleaning up hand planes. I can't remember exactly how many, but this should be the fourth or so in as many months. Lets see there was a transitional, the steel one, and now these three. I would love to see some documentation of your technique. I have some recent purchases that benefit.

Scott


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## woodzy (Jan 24, 2011)

I am very new to the world of planes so i can't help you there. 
Excellent work on the Craftman #4, the logo is really cool. I don't know that i've seen the "Craftman" logo written like that before. 
I also like that this model comes with the metal adjustment knob which i prefer to the rubber version. 
I just think it looks better.

Can't wait to see the other two all dolled up !!


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## docholladay (Jan 9, 2010)

Craftsman planes could have been made by Sargent, Fulton, Millers Falls, Stanley and probably some others out there. Craftsman pretty much contracted it out to whoever was the low bidder at the time. At least, back in the day, the options available were of better quality than typically found today. Truthfully, those planes could have been made by almost anyone. For what it is worth, the plane in the middle has a logo the same as a number 7 sized plane that I own which I believe to have been manufactured by Millers Falls. But, even at that, the one that I own is more similar to the lower end Millers Falls planes and not the premium line that they made.

Doc


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Thanks for the info, Doc. I have not looked real closely at the other Craftsman yet, but I'm virtually certain the one I fixed up is a Sargent. I just have no idea how old or new it might be.


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Charlie - I've read the numerous how to's on plane rehab so I am not asking you for that dissertation. However, the tote and knob - are you stripping these and refinishing these or just buffing them out? They look great. I purchased a Stanely type 15 # 5 to get started on the rehab techniques. The tote and knob are finished almost black and I would like to lighten them up.

Thanks


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Looks like you are heading towards being a plane guru Charlie ;-)) Nice find and nice work on them.


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## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

That is a beauty, Charlie… and even more so now that you have put the shine to it.

How DID you repair the tote chip ? It looks immaculate.


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## Woodwrecker (Aug 11, 2008)

Gotta say I don't know squat about planes Charlie, other then the fact that you do one hell of a job cleaning them up !
Man, if there is reincarnation, I want to come back as an old plane showing up at your door !


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## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

Great pics, too Charlie. Love the crisp targets with blurred backgrounds (f-stop wide open). Looks very professional.


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

Beautiful plane! Excellent job cleaning it up, I would like to know your secret as I too have some that would benefit from a thorough cleaning.

Seen lots of Craftsman logos, but not that one.

I think you scored big time!


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## mmh (Mar 17, 2008)

Glad to see you got a deal and that these tools are seeing a new life! Beautiful restoration.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

its a buetiful plane.


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## GregInMaryland (Mar 11, 2010)

Charlie,

As a liberal arts major, I instantly recognized the fine job you did restoring those planes. Great job!

Greg


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## LeeJ (Jul 4, 2007)

Great job on the clean up, Charlie.

I bet that didn't look that good when it was new.

Lee


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## saddletramp (Mar 6, 2011)

Nice work on the restoration!

The plane on the right, I can't really make out the logo, even with my glasses on (LOL) but are those backward Rs? Is this some kind of a Roossian plane?


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Thanks, everyone.

lysdexic: Sometimes I just buff them out, but on this one the finish was really bad, so I had to take it down to bare wood. I did not put a finish back on it… I just buffed it with white diamond compound and wax.

David: I just sanded the chip most of the way out… it wasn't too deep. As for the photos, I was using my new toy. It's a Tamron 60mm f2.0 portrait/macro lens. It's fantastic for blurring backgrounds, but if you are shooting up close you'd better take a lot of sanps because the depth of field is TINY.

Saddletramp: Not sure if you were joking, but the one on the right in the top photo is the same Craftsman that is featured in all the other photos.


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## saddletramp (Mar 6, 2011)

Charlie, I must be a little dyslexic this morning. I meant the one on your other right (the left). LOL


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## Radish (Apr 11, 2007)

Wow. Like all your work, you plane restoring skills are honed razor sharp. Great job!
The one on the left certainly has the same style of bas-relief logo as the Sargent planes I have.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

The one on the left is a #5 size Wardmastr (yes, that's how it's spelled) sold by Montgomery Ward. I have not taken it apart yet, but I understand their planes were mostly made by Stanley.


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## saddletramp (Mar 6, 2011)

LOL, could not actually read the logo in the pic but I could have sworn that the Rs were backward. LOL


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

I glad am i don't have lysdexia.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

lysdexic: Thank Dog for that!


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## Beginningwoodworker (May 5, 2008)

Charlie, those are some beautiful planes.


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

Yep, quite beautiful, Charlie. What DO you use for rust and stain removal? I have a hard time getting the entire plane iron (among other things) shiny.


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## TimK43 (May 29, 2011)

Damn nice job Charlie!!!! Nice score on those three planes!!!


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Jay, I have the same question. I can get rust off easy enough but the underlying black discoloration is problematic. Unless you regrind the surface to new metal, I do not know how to do this. Obvious regrinding is not applicable if you want to preserve nickel plating.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I use a combination of wire brushes, steel wool, and various grits of sandpaper…. whatever is necessary. Heavier staining and pitting requires coarser sanding, of course. Just like wood, you can get blades and bodies to the level of sheen you desire by working through the grits. For nickel plated lever caps, about all you can do is buff them if you want to retain the plating.


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## KentS (May 27, 2009)

Charlie, I felt pretty good about my garage sale planes until I ran across this.
Maybe I should send mine to you to restore. These look fantastic. Great price too!

Thanks for sharing


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

Thanks, Charlie. I knew you were going to say that though. I guess with hand planes I'm a bit like Maynard Krebs …"work…work…work?!"


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

It's not that bad, Jay. 

I probably have a total of 3-4 hours of work invested in this particular restoration. And it's more fun than spending an afternoon with your wife's relatives.


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## Roz (Jan 13, 2008)

Chalie, What I want to know is how you make them look like new. I have several to clean up and don't want to screw them up. What did you do?


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## Roz (Jan 13, 2008)

Hey! I'm somebodies wife's relative. What's up with that? t


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

LOL, Roz.

Read up a few comments where I tell how I do it.


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## Gary_Roberts (Feb 15, 2010)

I gotta say, I hang out in other forums, mail lists, tool auctions, books, etc. and the constant chatter on which tool is rarest, most expensive, worst, etc. got old. I like that people here are looking at old tools as something new to learn about, something to use and not getting totally lost in the "he who dies with the most planes/saws wins" routine.

Except for collectible tools, they're made to be used. Put a good iron in an average maker plane and you can have a decent working plane. That's my take on it.


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

I agree Gary.

I have purchased a few planes that were "collectables", but sharpened the iron and put them to work.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I look at it like this:

I enjoy the aspect of a tool's history… thinking about who might have used it and the projects it helped create. But I also really like the idea that for a few bucks and some elbow grease, I can end up with something just as beautiful and functional as a new plane costing 8 or 10 times as much.


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