# Burn Marks on my Drum Sander Sand Paper- what gives?



## Peter5 (Sep 22, 2010)

I recently bought a drum sander and it's great, but I keep getting burn marks on the sandpaper. I have figured out that they can be avoided by taking lighter passes, and running the conveyor belt at slower speeds. OK, but even when I think I'm being extremely careful they still pop up when I'm not expecting it. The worst part of it is that once the burn mark is there, it makes an ugly, black, deep gouge in whatever I try to run through the sander after that point. So I have two questions- are there any other secrets to avoiding these burn marks, and once you have one is there any way to remove it? For example, could I scrub it with a solvent or something? I'm going through sandpaper faster than I can afford it so someone please help me out!


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## fussy (Jan 18, 2010)

One, use the right grit sandpaper; Don't start too fine. Two, don't take too big a bite. Take lighter paSSES.
Three, clean your drums often with a gum rubber pad. Four, get feed and speed right. Some woods, as you know are prone to burning. On them sometimes you have to take lighter pass, but take them FASTER to keep from overheating by sitting in one spot too long. As to removing the scars, sanding (hand), scraping (hand); you get the idea. Avoidence is the key. I think.

Steve


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## pvwoodcrafts (Aug 31, 2007)

Are you running glued up panels through it ? Pitch will gum up your paper too. I use 100 grit on my front roller and 220 on the second. I don't have much problems with buildup. I also only work with hardwoods and nearly all clear stock.


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## JonathanG (Jan 18, 2010)

From using my drum sander, I'd have to agree with the above comments:

-Use the correct feed speed. I actually found that faster is better, as the wood is in contact with the paper for a shorter period of time, thus less heat is generated at one particular point. I was getting some slight burn marks on maple right out of the shoot, so I sped the conveyor speed up and that solved the problem. You definitely have to take lighter passes with a faster feed rate speed though.
-Keep the paper clean and use the rubber eraser/gum stick/whatever you want to call it to keep the paper on the drum clean. Raise the lid and clean it off after every few passes, depending on the wood, how big the piece is, etc. This will also help the paper last longer.
-Wood such as pine will gum the paper up in a hurry, sometimes after 1-pass.
-Take light passes, going no more than 1/8-turn on the handle at a time. If you're using a finer grit paper, such as 220-grit, you'll likely be better off going 1/16-turn.
-I have not found any "easy" way to remove burn marks/built-up pitch from the paper, maybe somebody else has found a solution?


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## longgone (May 5, 2009)

What type of wood are you running through your sander? As others have stated, light passes & feed speed are extremely important but some hard woods just will not go through without burning or gumming up the paper.
I have a difficult time sanding hard woods and oily woods such as cocobolo & bloodwood…while other hardwoods sand just fine.
Some softwoods such as pine and sinkeer cypress gum up quickly.


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## Peter5 (Sep 22, 2010)

I have mostly been running walnut and rosewood lately. I never thought about actually speeding the conveyor belt up, I'll try that! I'll also try soaking a belt in Simple Green- I will be completely stoked if that works! Has anyone tried that? Sometimes the belt will be completely fine except for one slim burn mark, and yet it's rendered useless- so frustrating!


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## childress (Sep 14, 2008)

You could try what bently said above. It should clean the belt. And definitely get a rubber cleaning stick to keep the paper clean when in use…..

Now, for the answer I really wanted to give you, is the one thing that stopped this with me is I started to use good paper. As soon as I stopped using the jet paper, and switched to deerfos, *never a burn again!*

It's also cheaper than buying the pre-cut rolls and last longer too!


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## Peter5 (Sep 22, 2010)

Hey Childress, that's a great tip- so do you have to cut those yourself? Is it rather painless? It looks like the rolls are about $17 each- is this correct? That's quite a bit more than what I've been paying (I've been paying about $6/roll) but if they don't burn then I guess it's worth it.


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## JL7 (Apr 13, 2010)

Peter - not sure if this was already covered or not, but keep that sandpaper tight to the drum - if it overlaps even slightly - it will burn instantly.

Have to defineately agree with Childress on buying the good paper - I was fortunate to find bulk rolls of 3M Regalite (I think) on Craigslist and this paper NEVER burns and doesn't load up. It is really amazing stuff.

I cut my own strips and for me the price and performance is worth it….........

Jeff


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Looks like you answered your own question Pete. What does the word "cheap" have in common with the word "quality". I have found that i tend to get just what i pay for and whenever i try to go cheap i end up paying more in the end. I have never had burn marks from our drum sander. Two things i do, buy good quality paper that is hook and loop, take roughly 1/12 turns for very light passes


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## childress (Sep 14, 2008)

Remember those rolls are 35' long, so depending on your size sander, you should get a couple of wraps. And yes, it's very easy to cut, just use an older pre-cut one as a template….


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## REK (Aug 30, 2009)

Pete
Light passes…the lighter the grit the lighter the pass…
The slower the speed = more heat = more burn
hard woods lighter passes
use the belt erasedr frequently….

dry wood helps is your stock kiln dried?

Enjoy your toy..I got mine 2 months ago it is great…You'll get the hang of it.


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## cloakie1 (May 29, 2011)

check your rollers to make sure there is no marks on them …hollows will leave a rasied mark on your job and high points will burn… coarser paper to get to required thickness and the a fast pass with a finer grit to finish.
we mostly put treated pine through oursand for that we use 120. sometimes we have to run kwila,vitex or american white oak which i tend to hit with 80 and then a pass with 120….no problems. our native timbers burn something wicked(rimu and matai) so i only take .10 of a mm a pass for that as has been said earlier speed feed versus cut is everything.


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## Taigert (Nov 20, 2007)

My Jet 22-44 OSC started to leave some burn marks on me. I looked at my sandpaper and I guess I didnt had it tight enough on the drum. Itghtened up my paper and the problem went away.
Mine was totally operator error!


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## Peter5 (Sep 22, 2010)

I usually use my drum sander to flatten a panel after gluing up multiple boards- I use 24 grit for this. Do you guys recommending going from 24 to 60, then 100, 150, and finally 220, or can I skip some of those? It seems like I can go from 24 to 80 if I take lighter passes and more of them, then go from 80 to 150 and, again, take many light passes. Which approach is more time efficient in your experience, many passes with few grits, or many grits and less passes? I'm getting ready to order a bunch of paper and I want to get the order right. Let me know, thanks!


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## JonathanG (Jan 18, 2010)

Peter5,

It'll work either way, you'll just have to make more passes for each grit you skip, compared to working up through the grits consecutively. I think it depends on how big of a batch of wood you're running at a time. It usually only takes me a couple of minutes to change between grits. Figure that 2-3 minutes is several passes for something not overly long to go through the drum sander. But then you'll also need to clean the paper more too, which adds a little more time.

I'd say if you're running a batch of something that's all the same thickness through the drum sander, it'd be more efficient time-wise to work through the grits, rather than skipping grits.

For instance, if you have 3-of something (cutting board, panel, whatever) that are all the same thickness, it's still going to take you the same amount of time to change the paper, whether you're running one panel through the sander, or ten panels through the sander. If you skip grits on 10-panels though, it's going to take a lot longer since you'll be making lots of extra passes. Hope this makes sense.

A numerical example would be the following:

Not skipping grits, you make 2-passes on each grit: 24-60-100-150-220 = 10-passes.
Skipping grits means extra passes on each consecutive grit, but only 2-passes on 24-grit since you're starting there: 2-passes on 24-grit, plus 5-6-passes on 100-grit, plus 5-6-passes on 220-grit = 12-14-passes.

I have not performed this experiment on my drum sander, but I know when handsanding or using my ROS, it definitely takes a lot longer when I skip grits, compared to just working up through the grits, which is what I've based the above example on.

This is not necessarily an exact representation of the number of passes, just an example to show that it'll likely take you more passes by skipping grits, plus a little more cleaning of the drum paper with your eraser.


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## Peter5 (Sep 22, 2010)

Jonathan, that makes perfect sense, thanks!


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

Peter, I don't own a drum sander and have never used one but I do find them interesting. I have read several threads on LJ about drum sanders and the one thing that has really stuck in my mind is a comment one of the other guys gave as advice. He said, "remember that this is a SANDER and not a planer." Just a thought. Lighten up on the amount you are trying to remove.


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## JonathanG (Jan 18, 2010)

Grandpa,

That's a good point. I tend to not use my drum sander as a planer. Unfortunately, I don't yet have a planer, and am currently on the hunt for one. I've used my drum sander as a thickness sander before, but it takes forever! I've been able to remove about 1/32" or a little more at a time on soft woods like poplar, using a very coarse grit of paper. Any more than that and I'm asking for trouble. And hardwoods, forget it beyond 3/128". It works in a pinch, if need be, but certainly has it's limitations.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Re: cleaning burn marks off the paper. I spray my burned area with simple green, scrub with a brass brush, repeat until clean. A PITA but it will salvage paper.


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## ToddTurner (Apr 20, 2009)

Hi! I have all too much experience with this problem. Let me tell you what stopped it. First, dont worry, the burns sand off the stock pretty easily. Next, its all in the setup. When you re-paper your machine leave about a 1/4 or 3/16 gap between the wrap on the drum. This allows for heat dissapation and expansion. It also gives the dust somewhere to go. Next, if you dont have a dust collector, get on. Its the dust that lends itself to the burning. You need at least 650 cfm of vacuum. Lastly, no matter how well it is setup, burns can still happen if you try to take too much off at one time. I was close to getting rid of my drum sander till it did all this. Good luck!


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## ssnvet (Jan 10, 2012)

Read up o. The concept of chip load when routing wood or machining steal. Since each little grain of silica on your sanding drum acts like a cutting edge, the same principles apply.

If you feed to slow, you cut and re-cut, and re-cut the same chips/dust and generate a lot of heat in doing so.

There's a happy material type/feed speed/sand paper grit/depth of cut out there somewhere that you need to discover.

Good luck!


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## vonhagen (Dec 5, 2011)

take a pencil and draw lines across the board and slowly bring the head up till it just starts to graze the lines this is your starting point. the burn marks are from trying to take off to much material at one time also from glue and then true the conveyer belt and check for buildup under neath, you can mill your conveyor belt by using the drum and slowly bring up the bed till it starts to sand the rubber, a sharpie works good on the rubber and will show if your grinding or not, i suspect there is build up under the conveyor so you may need to de tension and clean it out. i clean my wide belts with easy off oven cleaner then rinse with water and let dry. also i star with 80 grit and work my way up to 180 or 220 in no more than 30 grit steps


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## Peter5 (Sep 22, 2010)

Vonhagen, Thanks for all the great info, I appreciate it!

Did you mean to say 30 grit steps? Or did you mean 3? I'm not even aware of 30 grits between 80 and 220. Or do you mean 30 passes?


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## johnnySalvage (Jan 27, 2012)

Good Stuff! I was about to get rid of my drum sander until reading this thread.


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## bbandu (Mar 4, 2014)

Ok I know how I am getting the burn marks on the wood and I understand how to fix it. My question ….. Is it possible to remove the mark from the sandpaper or is the sandpaper just toast.


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## CWWoodworking (Nov 28, 2017)

If you get a true burn mark on the paper it done.

If it's just build up, you can use a rubber eraser.


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## ArmyOfNobunaga (May 12, 2021)

Two things I'd advise: 
1) make sure the suction on your dust collector is good. It's not only moving dust but moving air that cools the sandpaper
2) add a logic controller (if it doesn't have it already) to your sander. It will automatically speed up the belt or slow it down as needed. Not hard to install if your are good or even just passingly good at electronics.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

Burned/gummed up belts are easily restored with an overnight soak in a solvent. I typically use ammonia in a large plastic jug so the entire belt (loosely rolled up) can be submerged and the jug capped to keep the fumes contained.

I use the Ace hardware brand "janitorial strength" ammonia since it is 2x as concentrated as the typical store bought stuff and is very inexpensive. I also have a ready supply on hand since I also use it for fuming white oak.
Other solvents like citrus cleaners and "Simple Green" work well, but are more expensive.

After the soak, I'll lay the belt out on the sidewalk and hold down the ends with a couple of bricks. The garden hose with a jet nozzle takes care of hosing the burns/gunk off.

The belt "erasers" are good for a quick pre-cleaning before using a belt, but IME they do little//nothing against heavy, melted/burned in gunk.

Eventually the cleaned belts will wear out (which also makes them more prone to clogging) so they get pulled form rotation at that point


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

I guess I'll have to go look at my rolls. I would have expected the backing material to go to bad in water. Given the cost, I like this option.


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## CWWoodworking (Nov 28, 2017)

> Burned/gummed up belts are easily restored with an overnight soak in a solvent. I typically use ammonia in a large plastic jug so the entire belt (loosely rolled up) can be submerged and the jug capped to keep the fumes contained.
> 
> I use the Ace hardware brand "janitorial strength" ammonia since it is 2x as concentrated as the typical store bought stuff and is very inexpensive. I also have a ready supply on hand since I also use it for fuming white oak.
> Other solvents like citrus cleaners and "Simple Green" work well, but are more expensive.
> ...


Not trying to be snarky but I can't imagine going through all that trouble for drum sander paper. Maybe it the odd one out but I spend way more on disks than rolls for drum sander. (All parts go through the sander)

I have a little bit heavier machine than most(woodmaster) but I find it hard to believe it would make a hugh difference. Maybe I'm wrong?

Honestly the thing that saves my paper the most is sending all material through at an angle. The paper doesn't load and everything comes out extremely flat after the second pass.


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

If one buys the strips of paper at the wood boutique, it's about $10 per strip, last time I bought some. Depending on one's cash flow situation, a bit of cleaner and some time might be the cheapest route. I have a 10/20 Jet, and sending things through at an angle isn't much of an option for me. YMMV


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## CWWoodworking (Nov 28, 2017)

> If one buys the strips of paper at the wood boutique, it s about $10 per strip, last time I bought some. Depending on one s cash flow situation, a bit of cleaner and some time might be the cheapest route. I have a 10/20 Jet, and sending things through at an angle isn t much of an option for me. YMMV
> 
> - Dark_Lightning


You might want to check out this-

https://buymirka.com/collections/mirka-jepuflex-antistatic

8 wraps for 26" woodmaster is a little over 60$ including shipping. I'm pretty happy with jepuflex.


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## AMZ (Jan 27, 2020)

Depending on the paper used, I've used table saw cleaning products (CMT or Trend), with excellent results in removing build-up and burn marks, from the roller. Used brass or nylon brush to scrub with. When installing paper, leave a 1/4" gap between wraps.


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

> If one buys the strips of paper at the wood boutique, it s about $10 per strip, last time I bought some. Depending on one s cash flow situation, a bit of cleaner and some time might be the cheapest route. I have a 10/20 Jet, and sending things through at an angle isn t much of an option for me. YMMV
> 
> - Dark_Lightning
> 
> ...


Thanks!


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## SpartyOn (Jul 10, 2012)

You can also use Krud Kutter to clean the burn marks from the paper. Got that tip from Charles Neil. I've tried it and it works.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

> I guess I ll have to go look at my rolls. I would have expected the backing material to go to bad in water. Given the cost, I like this option.
> 
> - Dark_Lightning


The backer on the aluminum oxide belts I use (red color) is impervious to everything I've used for immersion cleaning. The printing does fade away after 4-5 sessions however.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

I pay about $5 a wrap for my 16/32 using Klingspor bulk rolls. It's nice to be able to use a belt to the point the abrasive is worn out versus tossing a new unit after a few passes with some cherry and encountering a pitch inclusion 8^)

I also use the ammonia on belts for my 6×48" belt sander. The 12" discs are PSA and I feel the solution would probably cause issues with the adhesive, but I'll try some day when I get desperate. Not sure how it would effect the velcro attachment style abrasives either.


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