# My Thoughts on the SawStop Professional Table Saw



## nkawtg

Your Dado insert comment is right on. In fact why table saw makers sell their saws without a ZCI and Dado insert is beyond me.
They're not that expensive and wouldn't deter me from purchasing a saw if the cost was a couple bucks more because of the additional inserts.
I get it's just another revenue stream if they don't include it.
But for some makers, they seem to spoil things by making a Dado insert, but failing to keep any in stock.


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## JulianLech

Not sure I understood your comment: *If you disable the safety feature you still cannot use a dado blade?* I am considering purchasing the same saw. When I asked the salesman at a Woodcraft store, he said you just turn off the safety feature and use a dado or any other blade.


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## Rockfoot

Julian,

You can use an 8" dado blade if you have the dado brake cartridge installed. You don't need to disable the brake feature to use the dado.

The saw has a main system power switch that turns on the computer and a Start/Stop paddle that starts and stops the saw. When you turn on the main power, the system goes through it's checks, and if everything is ok, it gives the green light and you can use the paddle to start/stop the saw. If it finds a problem, it gives you a series of blinking red and green lights. You have to look up the pattern of blinking lights to find out what the problem is and fix it before you can use the saw. You can only start the saw if you have a solid green light. You also can only disable the safety feature if you have a solid green light.

One of the checks it performs, is the distance between the blade and break. If it's greater than 1/8", you don't get a green light and cannot start the saw. If you have a 10" blade installed (or 8" dado blade w/ the dado brake cartridge), then you simple adjust a screw just under the insert plate to get the proper brake clearance.

My problem is, I need to use a special 6" super thin kerf blade. When I install this blade, there is definitely more than 1/8" between the blade and brake, so I don't get the green light. Since you can only adjust the break by an 1/8 inch or so, I can never get the break set to the proper distance. Even if I were to put the 8" dado cartridge in, there is still 2 inches between the blade and brake and the saw won't start.

If you only ever use 10" blades and 8" dado sets, then you won't have a problem. Before buying this saw, I read dozens of reviews and no one ever mentions this issue. Had I known I couldn't use this blade before hand, I may have chosen a different saw. I just wanted to point it out incase anyone else is in the same boat. Otherwise, it's a great saw and well worth the price.


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## ssnvet

Thanks for the review. I agree that premium saws shouldn't nickle and dime ya for every "standard" accessory.

Please update after you put some more miles on her and comment on any false or accidental trips.


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## Dark_Lightning

Thanks for the review, and I hope that your saw serves you well.

But blinking red and green lights for error codes? If I want to diagnose a problem on my vehicle, I'm reduced to counting pulses or buying a diagnostic tool, neither of which necessarily give a report of the true problem, which is why parts stores in California no longer offer that service. If the SawStop has a computer, maybe it could have a better readout, say an LCD with words? I don't know what the ultimate solution is, but counting flashes doesn't strike me as a good one. Maybe it's just me.


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## Redoak49

The technology of using blinking light codes is very common. Yes, it would be nice to have an LED read out but it would add a lot to the price. I have not had any issues counting the blinks on my Sawstop. Typically, I only have run into the one telling me to adjust the blade gap.

I am surprised that the reviewer did not check out the issue of using a smaller blade before he bought the saw. If I am going to do something with a tool that is not totally normal, I would call and ask first before buying.


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## Grumpymike

What a honest and fair review of the Saw Stop. I never knew that the changing blades made a difference, but as you explained it, it makes sense.

I also use an ultra thin kerf blade when cutting holly for stringing, so this saw would not have been for me.

I did a blog on buying a new table saw and the choices that I ran into after looking at and comparing 6 popular brands. But never did one of the reps or sales staff that I spoke with, make any comment regarding that only a 10" blade can be used with out purchasing conversion equipment.

I admit that I have not been a great fan of the Saw Stop, But as I have said before it is the saw that keeps on costing.

This all just reaffirms that I made the right choice for my use when I chose another brand.


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## OggieOglethorpe

I use a 7-1/4" Freud ultra thin kerf circular saw blade on my SawStop ICS to slice stringing and banding, with all safety features intact.

I am not going to post on the general Internet how I do this, but it is absolutely possible…

About dado inserts… I have one for mine, and I've never used it. I prefer to make my own from BB ply, with 1/4-20 set screws to level them. They are reversible end to end, for two sizes on one insert. You'll need more than 4 leveling screws per insert to do this.

There's no reason to relieve the bottom of the shop-made insert unless you need to tilt the blade. I can't remember the last time I tilted a dado, so I don't worry about it. If I ever do, I'll use the purchased dado insert for that operation.


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## OggieOglethorpe

*But blinking red and green lights for error codes? ... ...I don't know what the ultimate solution is, but counting flashes doesn't strike me as a good one. Maybe it's just me.*

It's you… ;^) The system is super simple, and the answer key is printed right on the side of the switch. It uses dashes and dots of both colors, there is no difficult counting. It's not much more difficult that DeWalt's battery charger LED's. If you can understand that, you're good to go with SawStop.

In my case, I sometimes shut the saw off with the wrong switch, and when I power the ECU back on, the paddle is still on. The saw won't pass POST, or start, if powered up with the paddle on, so it tells you what's wrong by wig-wagging the green and red LED's. It's all very simple…


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## KerwinLumpkins

I have a Saw Stop and I love it. I did buy the cartridge for dado blades and I have used it many times. Sure it's extra cost, but if cost was my first and foremost concern, I wouldn't have bought Saw Stop . As far as Saw Stop charging extra for accessories… well, that's life isn't it? Powermatic charges extra for bits for its mortiser (and they're great by the way). Should Saw Stop and other manufacturers just include everything at one cost? In my opinion, no. There are accessories that I don't need and would rather not pay for. Should Saw Stop just give away those accessories? Yay, great! Except, as a small company owner myself, my response to a suggestion to give away stuff (and just eat the cost) is a smile and a polite "no thanks". So I don't think it's realistic to expect Saw Stop to make a dado blade cartridge and give it away. Besides, would you really want to trust an accessory that you got for free? Something complicated like the saw stop safety cartridge?

This discussion thread has been about cost of accessories with the Saw Stop. I'd like to add that the Saw Stop is not just incredibly safe, it's incredibly accurate. It is a fantastic piece of equipment. Rock solid, and it holds accuracy without need for constant adjustment. Dust collection is excellent. I've used Powermatic Saws and I love them. Also rock solid, exceptionally well made. But every time I turn on my Saw Stop, though I treat that spinning blade with complete respect, in the back of my mind I know that it's much safer than any other saw out there.


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## abie

Rockfoot:
Why not get a thin kerf 10 inch blade for your saw?
Our Shop has two Saw Stops, we are all over 55 and mostly retired ( Tired too)
Have only had one scratch in four years, have replaced the cartridge too many times to count and any one who sets it off has to pay for a new one.
Love both of them.


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## Rockfoot

abie - A normal thin kerf blade is about .095". The blade I use to cut fret board slots is just .023" thick, which is why it's only 6" in diameter.

KerwinLumpkins- I'm not saying SawStop should give away accessories. But, every single other table saw you can buy, you can install your dado set and cut dados right out of the box. I just think it would be nice for SawStop to include the dado brake and insert with the saw and raise the cost of the saw to cover it.


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## OggieOglethorpe

Rock…

Not all thin kerf blades are .093, 10" blades, for example a Tenryu I've used belonging to someone else, and the 7 1/4" blades I use to slice shop-made banding and stringing are 1/16" (.0625) kerf.

Your .023" kerf 6" blade is such a specialty item that I don't think it's realistic to expect most woodworkers to know what it is, or machine manufacturers to expect anyone will use one. SawStop clearly states they only support 8" dado stacks several times in the online FAQ.

For less than $200, and an hour's work, you could probably set up the 6" blade in a used jobsite saw and build an MDF sled to carry your fretboards accurately across the blade.


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## Dreek

My two cents' worth: thumbs up on the observation about the blade clearance - an available override for that particular check would be useful and well-received. Not too sure about your gripe regarding what they package as extras. My experience with customers of any product or system is that you just can't win, that is, for every person who wants the items they, and perhaps many others, want to be standard, there's another coming along who doesn't want to pay for something they "don't need". If it were my choice, I think I'd leave the dado stuff optional as Sawstop did - there are a LOT of people who make such cuts with routers or hand tools, reserving the table saw for long rips.

Given that the saw you bought was a couple hundred dollars less than your other choice, you made out OK IMO. Enjoy it - wish I could afford one! (two Ivy League daughters tend to limit one's options for furnishing the shop


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## brtech

I have the PCS and love it. I knew about the dado cartridge and bought it with my initial purchase. There is an aftermarket throat plate with removeable/replaceable inserts, and you can make your own inserts for it. This allows you to have ZCI for thin and thick kerf and any number of dado openings you care to make ZCI. It's made by Colli-Beck and sold primarily by Infiniti Tools.


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## helluvawreck

Thanks for the well written review.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## jak77

My guess the reason sawstop does not include a dado cart. and insert with the saw is because 75% of the people I have sold a saw to don't buy them.

I really don't understand it. But honestly it seems very few people are cutting dadoes with their table saws. 
Enjoy


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## CyberDyneSystems

> Thanks for the review, and I hope that your saw serves you well.
> 
> But blinking red and green lights for error codes? If I want to diagnose a problem on my vehicle, I m reduced to counting pulses or buying a diagnostic tool, neither of which necessarily give a report of the true problem, which is why parts stores in California no longer offer that service. If the SawStop has a computer, maybe it could have a better readout, say an LCD with words? I don t know what the ultimate solution is, but counting flashes doesn t strike me as a good one. Maybe it s just me.
> 
> - Dark_Lightning


The codes are actually very simple in use.

Green means go, Red of any kind means it won't start because something is amiss.

For normal operations using 10" blades or 8" dados, you only get the green light, unless there is a problem that you would not know about otherwise.

On a Delta, Powermatic, Grizzly etc, you could start the saw with the blade nut unattached, the door to the cabinet open and belts exposed, etc. Not that most of us would have that kind of oversight, but it can happen. With the SawStop, you get the blinking red light, then know to find what you missed.

If there was a read out that told you exactly what each problem was, then the diagnostics would have to be far more complex than a simple "go, no-go" open shut circuit, and the readout LCD etc,. all would be higher cost by quite a lot, serving the same purpose, and well then people would complain even more about the fact that a Saw that can save you hundreds of thousands in medical expensive costs a grand more up front to run.

We've been running the ICS SawStop in a shop populated by seasoned pros and students alike, and having come from decades using Delta, Powermatic etc., I can tell you that the Saw Stop is the most well thought out of the bunch in every aspect. Including the Green and Red lights.


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## CyberDyneSystems

> .....
> 
> One of the checks it performs, is the distance between the blade and break. If it s greater than 1/8", you don t get a green light and cannot start the saw. If you have a 10" blade installed (or 8" dado blade w/ the dado brake cartridge), then you simple adjust a screw just under the insert plate to get the proper brake clearance.
> 
> My problem is, I need to use a special 6" super thin kerf blade. When I install this blade, there is definitely more than 1/8" between the blade and brake, so I don t get the green light. .......
> - Rockfoot


Are you sure that it won't start despite the blinking warning, with the key over ride on? If not, well that is a shame.

This is actually not a problem I have come across after 5 years of constant use. I am sure it is not unique, but I suspect that most of us are only ever running the standard 10" blades and 8" Dados. Clearly this is a sacrifice with the current system. I wonder if there is a enough demand for a "cure" that one will be put in place? My guess is don't hold your breath.

As for the Dado set up on the SawStop, we've used it plenty, and works great and is not that hard to swap out. Again. just like the SawStops basic safety feature, I am not at all unwilling to pay a few extra bucks (about $100.00) for the Dado brake and insert given the added safety they offer.

Lastly, and I'm not recommending any of you kids try this at home, but in your specific case, it might make sense to simply alter an 8" Dado brake cartridge to add in a piece of additional conducting material (aluminum) to make the gap smaller. Be Careful! And obviously this would trick the saw, but it would not mean the brake would work.


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## Ken90712

Nice review, while I agree with some of your points others are not really a fair review of the Saw its self. Just the accessories and their extra cost. I have been looking for a new saw for quite some time now. I have talked with the Sawstop , Laguna, Powermatic, Delta, Grizzly and a cpl of others.

It has bothered me about the extras you need to buy or at least suggested. I use my 8 inch Dado alot but I only would need to buy the brake. I make about 10 plates at once and have them for zero clearance for the different blades and dados.

Working in Aircraft Maintenance for 32 yrs. I have come to realize (maybe maturing, Wife disagrees though :>).. The safety feature alone is worth it. One save from this, allows me to continue providing for my family. I feel I'm very careful as I have been woodworking for 35 yrs. The closet I've come to a blade with my finger was on a miter saw, cutting small pieces. (completely a dumb move on my part, luckily my finger hit the smooth part of the blade and not the teeth… Again all me.)

After comparing all the saws out there and putting aside the safety feature I think there one of the better ones made out there.( My opinion of course.) I was close to getting a Delta but just feel the SS is better. I have the money but keep hemming and hawing about pulling the trigger.

My only frustration with SS is I wish they offered the Professional in a 5 HP instead of having to jump up to the Industrial with 2 Grand more out of pocket. 
Thx for taking the time to write review.


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## GregD

I bought my PCS several years ago and I am very happy with the performance overall, but there are a few annoyances.

I ordered the dado insert & cartridge when I ordered the saw. That seemed reasonable to me. However I discovered that my 8" stacked dado was a bit larger than 8" and I could not adjust the cartridge out far enough to clear the dado. So I had to buy another dado set.

What I find most annoying, however, is that lock-down handle for the riving knife holder will interfere with the cartridge diagnostics if the riving knife is not installed. When running my dado I have to find some thin scrap to stick in the riving knife holder to keep the lock-down handle from swinging too close to the cartridge. This hack is far below all of the other features of the saw that are well designed and implemented.


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## df1k1

Great review and timely. I just purchased the same saw and realized my 6 in Freud dado wouldn't work. I thought I had done my research and clearly missed this. A little annoying but not the end of the world. Overall very very happy with the saw over my old unisaw. The tolerances and accuracy are there but not necessarily out of the box. I was praying that the table would be aligned to the miter slot. I had spent literally hours dealing with that on my old unisaw. Went and checked… And it was .010 out. I was really really disappointed until I started the adjustments. Wow. Had it tuned into .004 within 10 minutes. 
All in all I'm really happy. The dust collection at the top is not "festool good" but still pretty darn good. My only complaint is the extension table. A little flimsy and I had a hard time getting it level with the wings over the entire span of the saw. But it will work


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## OggieOglethorpe

*What I find most annoying, however, is that lock-down handle for the riving knife holder will interfere with the cartridge diagnostics if the riving knife is not installed. When running my dado I have to find some thin scrap to stick in the riving knife holder to keep the lock-down handle from swinging too close to the cartridge. This hack is far below all of the other features of the saw that are well designed and implemented.*

Have you called SS?

I've used many examples and have never seen this. You may have an issue that is easily solved.


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## GregD

> Have you called SS?
> 
> - OggieOglethorpe


I'm pretty sure I called. I can't imagine that on my own I would ever have suspected that the lock down handle could in any way affect the pre-startup tests the system runs. But it has been a few years so my memory is fuzzy.


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## JerryinCreek

I have the same saw as Rockfoot and absolutely love it. However, I do have the overhead dcs and it makes a world of difference, but, swing the arm to the rear and you'll be amazed at the difference in collection. Regarding your other "concerns", I think KerwinLumkins, Jeff Mazur and brtech have addressed them well. I have the insert brtech mentions and it's great!


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## thedude50

I got my PCS when it first hit the market I love it have cut thousands of bf lumber not one break fire but sure nice to know the safety feature is there should I need it.

I cut fret boards on the wood-rat with a router bit have also had them cut with a laser. cost about 12 bucks a board to cut.


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## JerryinCreek

Greg D - Something is amiss with your saw. I always run my dado set without a riving knife or anything else in that slot and never have a problem with the lock down handle. You should call SS.


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## bryce12

My wife talked me into purchasing a Sawstop for my birthday (2/15/2017) and for some reason I could not argue with her. Replacing my Delta 3hp 52" Unisaw that I have used for about 23 years and have yet to cut off any fingers or toes. Did have a couple kickbacks into my stomach area with black/blue marks for a while. Anyway, just finished assembling the Sawstop PCS 3hp 52" with industrial mobile unit. Had a problem trying to figure out how to lift the saw up into the mobile unit without it trying to run away once the saw was lifted partially and dropped into the bed. What I did was to rise the bottom of the saw while resting on its back, slid the mobile unit onto the bottom of the saw case and used a heavy duty cargo strap to hold the mobile unit tight to the bottom of the saw case. Removed the two rear wheels and raised the saw upright without a hitch. Placed a 2/4 under the rear of the mobile unit and put the rear wheels back on. This method only took myself and a friend (both 76 years old).


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## Michael4635

How thin of a kerf do you use?


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## sotan

> They re not that expensive and wouldn t deter me from purchasing a saw if the cost was a couple bucks more because of the additional inserts.
> I get it s just another revenue stream if they don t include it.


I don't understand this argument that several have made in this thread:
that they wouldn't mind paying extra for the dado blade and throat plate to be included, but don't care for having to buy it separately.
Isn't the end result the same if it comes included at a higher price vs. buying it as an add on? If they DID include it I expect they'd have lots of ppl grumbling that they're forced to buy something they may not want or need. Since most of the time if you purchase a table saw, it gets shipped to you from the manufacturer (vs buying one from Stock on hand in the store) it's no big thing to also order the dado accessories at the same time. I guess you can't please all the ppl all the time.
And, I mean no disrespect to anyone with this take. Everyone's opinion is just as valid as mine and I have my little annoyances too.
Take care, all.


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## Grumpymike

The dado blade throat plate is a moot point in the cost of the Saw Stop.
The big complaint with the Saw Stop which is a nicely built saw by the way, is that Steven the designer and builder of the Saw Stop tried to legislate and pass into law that all table saws must have his anti hot dog cutting devise installed or be sent to the scrap heap. Also it would be very illegal to operate any saw with out his devise.
I can just imagine in my mind's eye, a jail cell where "The Brute" is asking a little wimp, "and what are you in here for boy?" the wimpy guy looks up and says "I was just using my dad's old table saw … " 
Personally, I bought a Grizzly Cabinet saw and with the money I saved I bought a good dado set, a Forrest blade, and some after market safety stuff, then I took my wife out to a very nice dinner and a show, then put the rest of the money on my pocket.


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## sotan

> They re not that expensive and wouldn t deter me from purchasing a saw if the cost was a couple bucks more because of the additional inserts.
> I get it s just another revenue stream if they don t include it.


I don't understand this argument that several have made in this thread:
that they wouldn't mind paying extra for the dado blade and throat plate to be included, but don't care for having to buy it separately.
Isn't the end result the same if it comes included at a higher price vs. buying it as an add on? If they DID include it I expect they'd have lots of ppl grilling that they're forced to buy something they may not want or need. Since most of the time if you purchase a table saw, it gets shipped to you from the manufacturer (vs buying one from Stick on hand in the store) it's no big thing to also order the dado accessories at the same time. I guess you can't please all the ppl all the time.
And, I mean no disrespect to anyone with this take. Everyone's opinion is just as valid as mine and I have my little annoyances too.
Take care, all.


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