# am I crazy? I need to know



## NewWaveUkulele (Feb 18, 2008)

a day or so ago I posted a for pre-carving a ukulele heel on the table saw on a ukulele forum. I called it bilateral table sawing due to the face that I mounted my cross cut sled to the table saw and laterally pushed the neck on edge thru the blade starting with the blade low on the table and raising it after passing both sides over to nibble away at the material until I got to the desired result. I also know that I did *NOT* invent this technique amd I've been doing it for years on a number of applications.

Well a storm of safety issues came up, and this may only be my damaged emotions talking here, but you would have though that I suggested that you set the blade height by running a cute bunny rabbet through the saw first




























so I'll pose this question to the gallery

Have you ever done this with your tablesaw?

you can check out the original thread here


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

While I admit I am not 100% clear on exactly what you are doing, judging from the photos and your description nothing jumps out at me as being dangerous.


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## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

Very similar to making cove molding on the table saw.

The only difference I see is that when making the molding, you pass the wood diagonally across the blade. The diagonal pass probably puts less sideward pressure on the blade/bearings/arbor of the saw.


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## Bradford (Dec 8, 2007)

It looks perfectly safe. I assume you use a stop block and clamp the piece to your sled.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Instinctively I don't think that I would do that because it just doesn't seem like it would be good for the saw or the blade. As to safety, I just can't think of anything to say. As to the arch molding method it has been proven a valid technique and the leading edge of the saw is cutting and the table is opposing the cut. However when you're pushing a piece of wood into a saw blade side ways (if that's what you are doing) then I don't know - it doesn't seem right and I wouldn't do it.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

I do it all the time but you have one possible fatal accident in waiting.

You have the piece at the front of the blade and I did this for years and then one day it kicked back and sharpened my finger.

If you do the same thing at the back of the blade (opposite end) it wont kick back and even if it does, it will flick your hands away from the blade instead of over the blade.

2 cents


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

Safer on the radial arm saw.
The bearings on a radial arm saw are designed for lateral strength ( so I was told by DeWalt many years ago).
I've done it on both table saw and radial arm though.

jamie


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Why can't you do the same thing by placing a stop on the table saw to stop the sled at the same place each time and quick clamp the part to the back board of the sled and slide the sled straight into the stop then pull back, slide the part over a little, clamp, and repeat the process. It would be slower but wouldn't it be safer? I've never done it so I'm just asking.


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## rivergirl (Aug 18, 2010)

And this is the sort of reason that I don't play with big boy tools.


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## NewWaveUkulele (Feb 18, 2008)

I appreciate your input, but no one has answered the initial question yet:

Am I Crazy?

*rivergirl *- probably best

*helluvawreck* - doable, but would take forever. it took 10 minutes for me to profile 6 necks. probably the production woodworker in me.

*alba *- no radial arm saw in my shop.

*Moron* - (I cant believe that is your screen name) - approaching if from the back side sounds a little crazy to me, but we all have our ways.


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

No more unsafe than cutting cove molding on a TS. Forge ahead! Oh, and I think I'll try that bunny rabbit method of setting the blade height. Thanks for the tip.


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## NewWaveUkulele (Feb 18, 2008)

if you run out of bunnies, you can always use kittens… 8^O


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## mtnwild (Sep 28, 2008)

I've never cut that at a 90 degree. I've done a few at angle and see no problem. It's an old technic.


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

It is as safe as you make it.

Crazy? NO!


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

Frankly I see nothing wrong with the way you're doing it. JMHO
Oh, you're probably not any crazier than the rest of us here.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

Ive got over 30 years behind a table saw and feel compelled to repeat what I said the first time.

The way you are doing it is dangerous. The blade is always going to be "pulling" the work away from the forward fence.

If it was at the fence behind, the bade would always be pushing it "against the fence".

I've had 3 table saw accidents so far, all three happened in manner similar to what you are doing. I have since, always put the fence behind the piece, working the back of the blade.

Cheers

and no…......your not crazy


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## NewWaveUkulele (Feb 18, 2008)

Well, I can see the problem, you've got 30 "BEHIND" the table saw. try standing in front and you may have better luck!

I jest,

but just to keep the debate going…

the rotation of the blade is pushing against the piece forcing the piece against the fence and is is stabilized by the headstock portion of the piece. is is a13 degree angle that breaks away from the fence and towards the bask end of the t-saw.

my experience with this cut is that the blade pushes against the piece and then again against the fence or carriage which is secured to the table top. if the piece does anything it rides up a little.

this tip brought to you from the people that created the heft handed pencil holder. *now that's crazy!*


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## Gofor (Jan 12, 2008)

If I get this right, you are basically running the piece against the fence side-ways over the blade.

The dangers are mainly associated with side loading the blade. Shelling teeth off the blade or distorting it so it damages the saw are the two biggies.

Lateral sawing has been used for years in making cove moldings, etc. I would advise you, though, to take into account that carbide tips on blades are more prone to shell off (not a factor in older high speed steel blades). As more blades are made off-shore with questionable quality control, make sure you use a quality blade. (My personal experience has only been with a miter saw where the teeth started richocetting off when I hit a knot in an oak board)

Feed control (you have been doing this a number of years so are aware of that) is the key to how much stress you put on it. As long as you are using an alternate tooth blade, where at least every other tooth has a bevel to cut into the work, the main pressure will be on the off bevel teeth. Use a good cross-cut rated blade.

If always feeding from the left, the last cutter from a dado set may be a better option if it gives you the radius you need. You can always use the other outside cutter to stabilize the first blade which would eliminate any blade distortion. However, you may need to slow the feed rate due to reduced number of teeth on a dado cutter. Dado cutters are angled to the outside cut followed by a flat scraper, so my give you a smoother cut as opposed to a regular ATB blade.

If I was doing it, I would wear eye protection and stand behind the front fence as much as possible. However, it appears to me no more dangerous than cutting cove molding. Yes, cove is cut pushing at an angle, but once you get the whole blade engaged, the difference is moot: you are feeding sideways into the blade at the whole blade height.

Looks to me that you are doing a common practice with the additional guard and blade stabilization of the front fence. The only thing I would suggest is putting a lexan shield over the top of your sled to catch any teeth that may shell out due to poorer quality in blade manufacture. This would also contain any piece kick-up-back if it happens. Small lexan pieces are cheap.

JMTCW

Go


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

Tu tienes mas cojones que mi. Though, I must admit, taking small cuts and standing where you won't collect metal in your personal space, it's probably OK. And definitely cheaper than a shaper, if the radius is right.


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

I agree with the majority here, your not crazy….providing your only taking small bites with each pass, no issues at all. Ive made a fair amount of both crown and cove molding using both the 'diagonal' method and the 'bilateral' method. If I was cutting bilateral, I would set up very similar to what you have shown.


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## NewWaveUkulele (Feb 18, 2008)

*Gofor *- address the saw from both sides of the saw side and push the piece into the blade I never actually stand in front of the blade, only a quick pass by as I move to the other side of the saw… it is a multi step two-sided process that dusty. all the while wearing eye, chest, ear, nose, and throat protection…along with a cup for good measure.

*Atom Jack* - I lost my cojones in a table saw accident years ago. I wear the cup to remind me of the good ol' days.

*Tony_S* - small bites until I have the finished heel width. By the way "Bilateral" and all the derivatives is now a copyrighted phrase that I own. please send me a quarter.

*Tom1*- the piece itself is pretty stable and clamping, then re-clamping then swapping necks and clamping again is cumbersome. the idea doe me is to make necks…6 at a time and get a good finished end product. again, I think it's the production woodworker in me talking.

Thanks all for your input. by my count:
That's 4 not crazy's


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