# What is the woodworking shop you have always dreamed of



## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

I always wanted a woodworking shop that was attached or not attached to the house.

A 45" x 65' shop would be just awesome to have. I would like it build out of 2×6s with an upstairs only 2/3 of the bottom area. With raident heating and Air Conditioning or fire burning under the floor tubing to heat the inside.

It would be great to have dust collection under the floor and paint room seperate from the main part. I also want it big enough to have a woodworking Club in it.

Bathroom, Office area, woodstorage upstairs with alot of natural lighting and dormers with windows for the upstairs light.

Lots of wall space used for handtools open for use.

Lots of storage for works in progress for everyone also.

Well that is a start and I might get more ideas from you guys too.

.


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## derosa (Aug 21, 2010)

I'd keep it a lot simpler then that. My current space is 21' square, I could happily live with 25' square, taller ceilings and a second floor, the top floor would be for the actual tools and woodworking the bottom floor would be a working garage with a small lift. The top floor would have large doors and a moving hoist to bring tools, lumber and finished projects down. 
What would make a real difference for me would be 2×6 walls with insulation, radiant heat, and lots of light tubes for the work shop. I'd prefer not to waste a lot of money on electric so I'd like a solar system on the roof to supplement the electrical. Like you I'd also want a bathroom which would occupy the downstairs.


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## RetiredCoastie (Sep 7, 2009)

Arlin that's an awful skinny shop at 45"...LOL. 45' X 65' would be great!

Radiant heat, air conditioning, 220 & 110 volt outlets in the floor and walls, dedicated room with cyclone DC & air compressor. Panel saw. Enough lighting to prevent shadows. Separate room for lumber storage. 2 work benches. 12" table saw. I could go on and on but that's good for now.


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## Rick Dennington (Aug 27, 2009)

Take a look at my woodshop…go to my home page, and click "workshop".....then go to my blogs and look at woodshop Pics# 2…....this is my dream shop…..


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

I have my dream shop now but I would like to have a shed for lumber storage. I would also be very happy if I could find the space for a spray booth. My new focus is on finishing. I think all of us have a week link mine is I don't like finishing unless it is a spray on finish. In the past I used to paint cars for a living and I am good with a spray gun. However other finishes and I don't get along. I want to change that this year so it will be my new focus a place just for finishing my work.


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## Deycart (Mar 21, 2012)

This thread should be called workshop of your dreams… lol. Anyway I would really like a simple shop with a nice epoxy floor to make clean up easy. Plus TONES of lighting. My last few shops were like caves.. Plus I would like it dedicated to just woodworking and not any of my other hobbies or house hold storage.


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

Deycart That is why I built that big shed in the back yard to house hold goods in the shop area.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

I'm not greedy. I simply want to be able to finish out my basement shop I designed over the last three years.
I could put it all in a 24' x 36' space if it was a rectangular building, but I like it in the basement.

You enter the shop through double doors from the ground level drive in garage.
To your right would be the sheet goods storage cart with the shop built panel saw mounted on one side. 
On the wall behind that cart and saw, is a 30 ft long slat wall I designed. Slots in the wall accomodate shelf brackets that can be positioned any where along the slots horizontally and in 6" increments verticaly. The brackets support most of my lumber storage.

To the left is a door that takes you to the stair landing vestuble and the bathroom and office are accessed from that landing as well.

Looking back to the shop, just past the sheet goods cart, panel saw, and rough lumber storage is the jointer and past it is the planer. The planer is a portable on a cart that stores under the near end of the miter saw work station. Toward the center of the shop, next to the planer is my main workbench. The bench is very heavy and loosely follows the Roubo style. The bench is 25" wide and 84" long. This grouping of equipment allows me to bring in material, joint it, plane it, then cut it to length and then take it to the bench or store it on wall mounted shelves.

Past the bench, and in the middle of the main 24' square shop area is the table saw arranged at a 45 degree angle.
Feed through the saw runs diadonally therefore from corner to corner of the space. I could, if I wanted to, rip a full sheet of plywood with this arrangement. I can also stage work to be ripped or cross cut from the workbench. Also mounted next to the table saw is a custom cabinet that serves as the base for my mortising machine and my drill press and band saw. The table saw, mortiser, drill press and band saw are all arranged so they form a diamond in the center of the main work area. There is an assembly table on the out feed side of the table saw.

Looking back to the right again you are now between the mortiser and the miter saw and looking toward the south west corner of the shop where there is a closet. Inside the closet is the dust collector. From this corner turn left and on the south wall is my clamp storage, a sanding bench then the lathe workstation. In the south east corner is a grinder station and the breaker panel.

Coming around the south east corner and heading north now you will have my hand and portable power tool storage to your right and bins for fasteners and glue. Next is the router table, which I haven't built yet. Now you have walked around the whole shop and are back to the entrance.

For three years I have designed this thing in my head, sketched it out, drawn it up in Autocad, designed all the cabinets, built some of the cabinets, bought most of the tools, built the workbench, bought the breakers and wiring and outlets and even built some of the tools. I want to finish this shop so bad I can taste it. You can not imagine how painful it is to be in a position where I might loose this house I built myself, with my fathers help, in 1976. But that is where I am, thanks to the policies of a subject we are not allowed to talk about on here any more.

Anyway, if you are still reading and havent fallen asleep, thanks for letting me take you on a tour of my little piece of heaven, even if it's only a fleeting dream.


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

I'm busy with my dream shop

I share it with a fair few Jolly Rogues

It took a fair few years and lots of help

First thing is to be realistic and see what size you

need. Remember that to big also means a lot of

wheeling between machines.

I figured 500' 2 was the minimum and 750' as being darn

near perfect.

Jamie


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

i really love my shop, and wish i had just 2 things, one is a large enclosed room to store all of my wood, the long boards i would like to have in a standing rack, i like it that way, you can see all of the board and its easy to get a hold of it , and better then having to pick it up, eaiser for me to get it standing and then walk off with it, really long boards of coarse would be on a rolling cart, or better yet, i would have a single steel beam run through the center, and have a motorized winch that would bring it from the wood store to the large double doors that go into the shop, and have it lighted really well, the next thing, a lagre spray room, the whole back wall filtered and exhaust fans…....then a seperate heated room for all of the finish material, and have it fireproof from the rest of the shop…and as far as the shop, a large area that i could have a bandsaw mill right there, i would have it on an outside wall area, design it so you could get to the logs with your fork lift, put the logs on and do the cutting right there, of coarse i would have all seasoned logs, now is that a handful of a dream, it shall happen one day, im going to have the most amazing shop ever,ill have the main shop in the center, but then around the outside walls i will have seperate rooms for teaching students, and they can have there own room ro work in, there outside wall will be large plate glass windows, looking out at the alaska rangei would have a large round log eating hall, with a huge fire pit in the center, with really large oak log tables we could all sit together ..and a baraque pit over to the side, where we could easliy cook half a cow, and a pig , i would have an in ground pit so we could cook the pig for several days..i think eveyone can figure out what we would do with all of this food….....and i would have a small icecream shop over in one area, so we could get custom ice cream deserts, and for the need for greens, we would have a huge salad bar…..with ice cold fruit bowels….......and every salad fixin there was…...this way, we could work really hard in the shop, teaching going on, projects being finished, and eating well when the time came…....then across the way from the shop and eating area,another building where e would have all the things made on display, and have several workers in there who know everything there is to know, so that when the folks came to buy, they could explain every detail…....and of coarse we will have a large truck to take crated furniture to port to ship to other parts of the world….....i could add to this, but ive created enough work now for several years…thanks Arlin.oh and there will be a seperate room for sharpening all of the tools and blades, with several folks in there who are expert at it, that way we can work and keep things gong and there job is in the sharpening room, i think it will work best to have everyone trained in this area, that way people take turns , no one wants to just sharpen all the time, we will have a rotating schedule…ok…now im done..))


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## Kentuk55 (Sep 21, 2010)

I don' think I would have wood storage up-stairs. When you/we get older, well, you know what I'm sayin


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

There was a woodworking magazine a few years back featuring a guy that bought an old water turbine for his shop. Right on a stream. Ridiculous.


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

well al, with the large river i have on my land up in alaska, i think using that turbine would create all the electricity i will need, i want to run the shop without dependency on electric, and i will also use solar power, when the northern lights fire up, ill have a really tall wire set up that will harness that power, maybe have it go to the 12 inch table saw..ive got a tim the tool time taylor table saw, oh its a binford 989-4000…lol


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

and let me help you here jamie, the word in the title is dream, so you dont have to be realistic…lol…...let it go, build what you really want…...make it with gusto …......the dream is to be healed and strong, back to our better days…where we walked around with oak logs on our shoulders…......my nic name was arnold the ox .


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## kop (Jul 29, 2012)

I would just be happy with a bigger than 10×14 ft space that I'm in now, preferably detached from the house so that I could be out there at any hour running saws and equipment with out worrying about waking up the wife when she's sleeping.


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## Surfside (Jun 13, 2012)

My shop is smaller than yours and I'm happy with it. It's just about 30 square. What's important is that you have the tools you need.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Take a look at this, this is my next project.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/37201/timber-frame-work-shop


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

That's insane, JGM. My house is timberframed and I'm not a timberframer. I shudder to think what that thing cost.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

My only beef with the shop is the floor. Go through all that expense and then lay down plywood floor?!?


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

My shop layout is just fine and at 30'x40' I have no desires to have a bigger one. What would make my shop perfect though would be the addition of volunteer staff, to sharpen, clean up, keep all things in order, service equipment and serve coffee or cold drinks and snacks as needed. Dream on.


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

well if i lived closer roger, i would volunteer for a few days …sorry buddy, righ now the commute would be to long..maybe you can find a young apprentice, offer to teach a young man some wood work in exchange for his services…


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Hey Grizz, get with the program. There are no youngster out there who are willing to help unless they can do it on an* iThing*. I am waiting for* iWork* and *iHelp* devices for the human body. Perhaps I need to Google me a helper or search Craig's List for one. 
I have offered a lot of youngsters access to the shop and tools to learn, but they are not interested in doing anything that involves physical work and skills. Sad.


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

im really sorry you have had that experience, but ive seen it coming, i was lucky to have one that was the opposite, but now he has moved and its me and the shop again, i really enjoyed teaching him and we got part of a cedar log bed made for him..so we really got somewhere…things in this world are not going to well, i always find the bright things and focus on the good, but there are some real problems brewing…


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

My current shop is 30×18 and is adequate but not perfect. It is big enough for all my tools, but I lack much space to store wood. While we're dreaming about the ideal shop, I'd make it 45×30, with a wood subfloor and infloor radiant heat and a bathroom. And maybe a vending machine that dispenses bacon.


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

We talking total pipe dream territory here, I can lay that out for ya…

For starters, it would have to be someplace I would actually want to live, on a decent size piece of land, prefer the Willamette Valley in Oregon, but I am open to ideas…

The building would be 36' wide x 64' long 2 story gambrel barn, with 10' ceilings. The wood shop would be in a 24×36 space and would house all the major tools except the compressor, cyclone, and finishing supplies (a separate finishing room would be used).

A 16×16 room would be set up for Tables and such would be on wheels to roll them out as need be, and an overhead door to allow me to pull a car in and use it as a spray booth as needed. This would be in the center of the building. The next 16×8 of that same 16' wide strip down the middle would be a bathroom with doors to both sides. Full bath with separate shower, toilet, and sink. First aid equipment and supplies would be there. Next 16×8 would be an equipment closet housing HVAC, compressor, cyclone, and janitorial supplies.

The 24×36 on the other side would have a full 14' ceiling, and would be configured as a 2 bay auto shop, one bay using a twin post safety type hoist, and the other using a hoist / alignment rack combination.

Both halves would be serviced by one of those I believe it is Ingersoll Rand that makes the 240 gallon 10HP single phase compressors. That should serve the whole thing well.

Upstairs above the 10' celing space will be a jam room / man cave, with stage, full drum kit, mixing board, amps for guitar, a new Ampeg for my Bass (my old Crate is getting dog eared…), a kegerator, a giant TV, and plenty of seating. The area above the 14' ceiling section would be storage.


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

I just wish I had a shop that didn't have litter boxes.


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

Scott, I just wish I had a shop. 

for a dream shop… I would probably want to have the main workshop area obviously, and I would love to have a down-draft spray finishing room. For me (I'm the first to admit I am a total wimp when it comes to heat) it would HAVE to have good A/C, and adequate heat (radiant in-floor heating ideal). If I could, large garage doors either on 2 ends, or on 3 sides for when it's nice out. Currently I work either in my apartment's spare bedroom, my parents garage, or their back patio. I prefer the back patio the most. I love being outside working, when it's nice. But that said, I'm still a wuss, so anything over 80 and I have a hard time working for too long if it's sunny with no breeze (I do live in MN, and I do wear shorts until it snows, regardless of temperature… does that balance the intolerance of heat out at all?)

I've also always wanted a bridgeport, and some metal working tools, since computers, and computer case building/modifying is still a huge enjoyment for me.

But I think I'll just start with something that I own, or at least am working towards owning 

-

There are no youngster out there who are willing to help unless they can do it on an iThing. I am waiting for iWork and iHelp devices for the human body. Perhaps I need to Google me a helper or search Craig's List for one.

Roger/Rex, I'm not sure your definition of "youngster" but I'm only 25, and am the type that would love to help out, if I were anywhere near, I probably would. Texas? Not a chance lol. I'd love to have access to hands on knowledge. That's why I joined up here, it's the next best thing


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Mosquito, there are not many around like you. When I was a youngster (groan another old fart speech), I would have given my eye teeth to have access to a shop and tools where I could make stuff. The world has changed now, very few are interested in making anything, so consequently we have become a nation of customers and let others' do our manufacturing. 
I salute any "youngsters" wanting to learn manufacturing skills of any kind, and feel the pride and pleasure of making items that are useful and decorative, you have chosen a path to live by very well.


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

It's interesting, although I had a game console when I was in elementary school, and another one when I was later in Junior High (it was a shared thing with my brother and sister) I wasn't THAT into it. I was more into K'Nex, Legos, and erector sets. My parents always yelled at me for tearing apart the $50, $100, etc remote controlled toys that I'd ask for for my birthday and/or Christmas… but now, they seem to be nagging my brother for constantly playing games on either a console, or his computer… I suppose in hindsight, tearing apart remote control cars to see how they work, and make them work "better" wasn't such a bad thing 

Anywho, more on topic now again… I would probably want skylights as well, and for light fixtures, would probably use all LED lights, if I could. A solar system for the lighting would also be really nice. It's not that I'm a huge environmentalist, or "go green" type so much that it's cheaper for me in the long run… Though it's also a huge bonus that it's a good thing for the environment too.

Even after the "youth of America" stuff earlier… I'd still say that I'd probably want to have internet in my shop as well… Preferably a line that went from my house to the shop, so I'd be on the same network as my other computers. I like to use a "music box" that I made to stream music from my file server, and/or the internet while I'm working on stuff. I suppose I could settle for using the radio… I'd probably have some sort of integrated speakers set up too, I love me some tunes, even though after a while I get so focused I don't really notice it anymore… oh, and someone to flip and/or change the records for me, so I don't have to


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Mosquito, here's news for the youth of America. Old farts like me at 69 already have Internet service in the shop, laptop, Internet webcams, CNC after a career in mechanical engineering and computer analysts. Go figure.

I am lucky to have skylights in my shop and think they are great, in fact I'd like 2 more.
The only other minor things I might like is to reposition a couple of windows and have a closed spray booth. Also upgrade the music system. The shop is nicely located in a tree setting and is remote enough not to disturb neighbors. It's a really nice setting, and planned that way.


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

I wish mine didn't smell like warm, steamy cat $hit. Oh, did I say that already?


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## NedB (Aug 21, 2008)

If I could have my dream shop, it would be about 40' x 40' with 10' sidewalls. It would have a loading dock in a 'well', as well as a drive in door for larger project/tool access. I'd have it split roughly into thirds with 1/3 for lumber storage and milling (jointer/planer) 1/3 for the main work area and then a small office in the corner with a 3/4 bath, and the rest of that 1/3 being a finish and hand tool area. It would have a deck on 2 sides and a man cave/loft over the office and finishing areas. It would pretty much be a larger version of my current shop, gambrel roof, only I would do a board and batten exterior (vs the handi-plank sheet goods on my current shop).

That being said, my current shop Is a dream nearly fulfilled, as I can get out there any time and enjoy the heck out of my time when I'm there. That's a far cry from how it has been in the past.


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## Gregn (Mar 26, 2010)

I already own the dream shop. Now I'm continuing the dream to enhance the dream shop even more.
My 12' x 30' shop is nice and cozy. I dream about once its finished the way I want to add on a finishing room and an assembly room. They don't even have to be big to complete the dream.

Now on the other hand a real dream shop would be a 50' x 100' building up in the mountains that I could also live in.


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

Ned8 brings up a great point. My shop is a bit cramped, and far from perfect, but when you think about it. I have a well outfitted shop with equipment that is capable of things that FAR outstrip my skills. I have ongoing projects right now, that will take what at one time WAS the pipe dream to have any shop at all beyond a circular saw and a hammer, and be able to do just about any job that I want when I want (noise ordinances not withstanding…).

They aren't the biggest or the best, but I have all of the major tools that I have any interest in, and not all the minor tools I could want, but more than I need for the most part. (Jigs, bits, and blades are still coming in). Power, insulation, and organization are the big lacks that I am dealing with, and those are the projects going on.

I am very blessed. Yes more space would be nice, fancier name plates on my tools, or higher capacity machines, but really, there is very little I would want to do, that I am not set up to do…


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

The thing my shop needed today was Air conditioning It was 122 in the shop an hour ago


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## cutworm (Oct 2, 2010)

One in St. Barths will do.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

warm steamy cat $hit……….now thats ambition.

12' ceilings 14' would be better as I could have an overhead crane that went from side to side and end to end

no posts, just clear space

radiant heated floors under softwood tongue and groove wide plank reclaimed flooring

wooden walls, t and g or shiplapped

wooden ceiling

lots of BIG windows

over head 12' door at one end and the opposite………drive through and perfect for blowing out the dust

radiant heated floors would also incorporate a wall vent that sucked in fresh heated air by tripping a limit switch when I turned on my spray booth to engage a radiator/heater

backed onto a pond with over hanging walk out deck

timber framed greenhouse out the ideal side

included a leanto for a 4 car/toy storage (heated)

gambrel roof with dormers in loft for a "man cave" come with a loft door with crane

heated sidewalks (no snow shovelling)

3 phase power

back up generator

man cave would include pool table, shuffle board, darts, fridge and freezer, ice maker, sink, 4 piece bathroom, bedroom, leather couches, and more

frigate air horn at front door, perhaps a locomotive train horn too, blast the living juice out of unwanted guest

and the list goes on

moat with drawbridge


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

well if your going to have a moat, dont forget the trolls…lol…...your shop sounds like a true dream…


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

guaranteed, add moat, trolls will come : ))

1,500 square feet minimum foot print, plus garage/lean-to/ plus loft

dust extraction system that turned waste into composite wood pellets fed to indoor wood pellet burning boiler that heated the beast for free, back up natural gas. Nothing worse then hitting "dew point"


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Wow

I am gone all day and have alot to read.

I just want alot of space to have individuals in wheelchairs be able to use it too. 
I really would like the shop to be as much Self Sustaining as possible including all electrity and heat. To me the more people working the nicer it would be. Lots of ideas and knowlege is helpful when woodworking and woodturning.

Like I said before I would love to have a big Club with alot of different Woodworkers teaching others how to do and love woodworking as much as we do. There are alot of Vets and kids that no longer have woodworking in Schools anymore and I do believe we can help them.
I do not have all the power tools or Hand tools but would love to provide them when I do get my Club/Shop up and running.
To me it is not about me, but about helping others make themselves better and happier lives.

Right now to me Hand Tools are the bigges thing. It brings back HISTORY to me and how everyone 2000 to 100 years ago did woodworking and I am following in their foot steps.

So for having a Club a big part of a shop would have to be for storage of items being made in progress and waiting to be finished.
Maybe a 45' x 65' would be too small for haveing a Club of 50 to 100 people working out of.

The other thing that Stumpynubs is doing really impress me is his jigs. I would want any and all jigs to help everyone to keep fingers and hands safe from a blade.

I have been checking out things on the internet and they have sky lights and a skylight in a tube going from a second story to a first story with a defusier. I also seen 8' floresent 8 tube lights that are just awesome to have. I also think alot of Rail lighting would really help in some tools and benches for carving, turning, assymbling pieces together. It seems you can never have enough light or clamps. Which brings up maybe a storage area for them or a storage area for clamps on wheels.

I know the Woodworking shop on Offutt AFB closed down along with 30 other bases, camps, forts closed down their shops. I would love to have a Non profit Club to open up a bunch of woodworking clubs around military bases for everyone to join.

Maybe even a 100' x 150' would be more what I need. I have over 50 acres to build on just not the money, however, that will come in time when I save for the Concrete then Lumber then other things and have it paid off when it is totally built.

Now that is a Dream Maybe I will have to have a Dream Team 

I love all of the different ideas here so far and plan to use them in the future. Thanks Guys

*Does anyone have pictures if their dream shop in progress?*

Arlin


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

My pictures of my shop can be seen on my shop page. I am not done with it yet It is a work in progress.


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## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

5 acres 10k squarefeet under roof ideal.


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## RustySpur (Aug 13, 2012)

Right now my dream shop is a room that doesn't require space to park a car. After that, I'm sure there are other dreams waiting to unfold.


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## EPJartisan (Nov 4, 2009)

I think of my studio as a projection of my psyche, so it will never be finished as I am an evolving being, but I love my shop, it IS my dream fantasy shop… it only took me 14 years to get here. All I want now is stronger electric, AC in the summer, and if it was closer to my home so I could ride my bike to work.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

mine's 24×40. 6' attic storage 10'wide. Its full.


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Rusty

I think you hit something there. No car allowed or Household storage.

Right now my garage is 22'x30' and everything has to have wheels so I can pull in the car. When that is in it takes up 16 of the 30 feet. Then everything is squished into one end.
My ceilings are 10' high which makes storage handier.

Arlin


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

I have a rack of bikes taking up some space but they could go i would not be sad


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)




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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

HAHAHA

Bertha Now that is really funny. You probley use that in your bathroom because you are so addicted to your planes you just have to work on them everywhere. 

Arlin


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

Where is that set from Al I need to get it for my Grandson.


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## JollyGreen67 (Nov 1, 2010)

Hey kop - That's just my size ! I can turn circles in there and operate anything I want.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Lol.
.
Dude, that's a Toys'R Us bench. My friend bought one for his kid. I had a hard time not playing with it.
.
http://www.shopping.com/toys-r-us-the-home-depot-ultimate-workshop-play-set/info


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Bertha

It is great haveing the "Kid" in us. Maybe we have to let it out more and have a ton more fun.

Arlin

I was just at another woodworkers shop on Tuesaday this week and it is very impressive. It is 50'x85' with the upstairs only being 1/3 of it.

It made it seem just right.

It and 2 bathrooms, 15'x15' spray booth, office for any cad work or watching woodworking DVDs, underground dust collector, lots of 110 and 220 outlets on all the walls and some pull down 110v, a very nice work bench that was 42"x15' long. I can not remember the rest but it was just amazing.

I hope to get pictures of it next time.

Arlin


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Arlin, have you looked at Circle B Barns?
.
http://www.circleb.com/
.
I planned to have them build a shop when I moved to WV. I ended up finding a house that had a tiny "shop", or at least I made it into one. They offered some structures that had tremendous potential as shops. It's at least motivating in terms of possibility. Check it out.
.
Disclaimer: no, I have no affiliation with the aforementioned company.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Here's an example without leaving their front page.
.


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Bertha

You know that reminds me of Old Barns people made into houses. It is really neat looking and it would go with our home acorage in the country.
We live just outside the city limits (5) miles and that looking like it does and with the double doors is awesome.

I think someone also put here that a crane coming out the door for big power tools and wood would work great with that.

One other thing would be a 50'x100' overhang to cut your own lumber and to let it dry. Wow what the life.

Arlin


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## RogerM (Oct 31, 2011)

I have already got the shop of my dreams. Worked long and hard for it.


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Roger
Do you have a picture of it or what it looks like inside and why you set everything up the way you did?

Arlin


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Bertha

That link has some pretty nice facilities. I wonder if a person can customize and what the prices are.

Arlin


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Arlin, you can customize all you want. The prices are what they are. It's expensive, but what isn't.


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

Thanks Al I have it ordered for his birthday. I appreciate the link.


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

Arlin, Roger has pictures and a really good description posted on his profile page.

Roger, that is a very impressive shop. It looks really nice. I really liked the use of the PVC pipe as cordless drill holders.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Roger, your shop is outrageously nice. We all know what does inside shops; I'm really impressed with the attention to the exterior. Here in WV, I can get away with a barn, lol. Your exterior is dialed in.


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## RogerM (Oct 31, 2011)

Really appreciate the comments on my shop. A lot of thought and sleepless nights along with some luck went into the details. The shop and our home was in the local Spring Home and Garden Tour this year. I would be glad to answer any specific questions on some of the details.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

I'm thrilled for you, Roger. It makes me smile just looking at it.


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Roger, I have a question. Can I move your shop to my backyard?


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

You know
I have seen nice woodworking areas in basements, sheds, garages, and Big out buildings. I know if most woodworkers had the chance and money they would want a detached woodworking building.

Basements are really nice because no worry of heating or cooling, but a hassle getting things up and down the stairs unless it was a walk out.

Sheds are really easy to heat and cool but not alot of room

Garages most of them are not totally finished inside so heating and cooling are a big problem, but alot of woodworking can be done in them and easy in and easy out of projects

A detached Building offers the best of everything that is ever needed, however, the cost would be $30k to $75k depending on how it is built and with most wood workers would be WOOD everywhere 

Arlin


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

Arlin, my shop is my 3 and a half car garage it has a double and a single door and it holds all my tools. I have set a side a space for a new planer jointer in a 16inch size that I am saving to buy some day hopefully sooner than later. I will soon have 3 benches in the shop and a good host of tools. I am very pleased that The shop is large enough but I do need to insulate the attic and I need to add a heat source and a Air Conditioner. I am in the middle of adding air outlets throughout the shop and a new sub panel for power tools. All the walls are insulated and finished. I am going to add insulation to the overhead doors and an Ac by next summer. God willing. I am hoping to return to work for 24 hours a week in the near future. That will do more than pay the bills and build the shop to what I want. I am still holding out for a new Table saw but I will wait till Powermatic has a safer saw.


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

I have a propane heater in the shop and 2 window air conditionars to keep it cool and keep the humidity out.

I guess I am lucky to some extent. The VA bought me my power tools all from Grizzly
1. TS G0690 3hp
2. Planer 16" 3hp with carbide cutters
3. Jointer 6" 2hp with carbide cutters
4. Bandsaw with 17" 5hp resaw cutting ability
5. Porter Cable 7518 3hp
Everything else I have bought and still buying for the Club I am wanting to start

Arlin


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Joseph

10,000sf is quite an impressive building. Kind of like a warehouse. Now that is my style
Arlin


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## tomclark (Feb 16, 2010)

Timely thread as I have recently moved from FL to NM, and built a new shop just the way I wanted. Building is 36×60. It has air, heat, it's own bath, and is heavily insulated. Shop is 36×36, and rest is a garage for storage and a storage room. 









Walls were added using 2×4s with solid foam insulation in them. Paneling is 7/16" OSB, so you can hang what ever you want. Couldn't think of anything else to add.


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Tom

That is awesome looking. You did yourself proud on that project.

How many people could work in there at the same time do you think?

Also have you talked to Patron? He also lives in NM and is working on his house and shop. He is the guy that drove to my house in IA and helped me here. You should get to know him, an awesome guy and woodworker too

Thank you for sharing
Arlin


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Tom, you build airplanes? That is incredible!!!
You worked hard for it. There is hope for all of us.


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## tomclark (Feb 16, 2010)

_How many people could work in there at the same time do you think?
Also have you talked to Patron? He also lives in NM and is working on his house and shop. He is the guy that drove to my house in IA and helped me here. You should get to know him, an awesome guy and woodworker too.
_
How many can work in here at once? Not sure, but I am trying to start a new woodworking club in the area. If Patron, or anyone else, lives anywhere near Deming, hope he gets in touch:
http://tomclarkbooks.com/Woodworkers.html


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## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

My dream shop has a guy who cleans up for me at the end of each session.

A "roadie", if you will…


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Pilot

Now that is a good dream. Maybe we could have our wife do that too. lol


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## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

The guy cleans up, then leaves…

The wife is waiting to rub my back! ;^)


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Or maybe to bash your head in if she sees this. lol

You have anymore Great ones hahaha

Arlin


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## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

After 23 years, she understands my humor… ;^)


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Pilot

It will be 29 years this Oct for me and she still says I have a odd sence of humor.


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## muleskinner (Sep 24, 2011)

For me it's all location, location, location. I think I could make this work. Rust and sand might be a problem but how much woodworking do you think I'd actually do anyway.


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

I do not know about that. Be nice up until the first wind came up and blew that little puppy away.

Other then that you would have alot of on lookers watching what you are making. 

Another good thing about that is a quick splash and all the wood dust is off.

Arlin


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

OK guys.

I really thing this is the biggest thing in any and all shops and that is quality Lighting.

I have 10' ceilings and only have the old type 4 bulb 4' florcent lighting. I want to know the high tech florcent lighting that gives the best light all around year around.

I also know that in certain areas could use track lighting for close in working. One example is for a band saw.

But I would I would like the very best lights for my shop I can get.


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

Arlin your Wife is right about you your funny as hell some time I get it and some time you have lost me But I always know when your kidding .


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## bobsmyuncle (Jan 12, 2011)

I read once that about 800 sq. ft. was optimum between having enough space and having too much space. I have a friend with a 5000 sq.ft. shop. He spends a lot of time at one bench doing detail work. I'm convinced he spends a lot of time walking back and forth between tools, workbench, and hardware. In addition, it's a lot of space to heat, so he only heats limited areas (around the bench) and cools by an exhaust fan.

So I'm thinking a gambrel building with storage upstairs, and maybe the finish room there, and an open work area downstairs.

Right now, I'm in a long and narrow basement shop. Tough to get stuff in and out and usually have to move stuff around between operations. But nice that it's there and heated and cooled when needed.


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## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

In my dream shop the "night crew" would clean up the place while I slept.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Lol at Cessna's roadie You could paint your name on all his travel crates, lol.


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## RogerM (Oct 31, 2011)

lysdexic - To your question on moving my shop. That is going to be a little bit tough as it is on a slab tied down with bolts and hurricane straps.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Roger, I have a super sawzall and access to a plasma torch, just sayin My dog farted on me five times during the typing of that short message. Five times, friends.


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Hurricane straps? In Aiken? The man is prepared.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^I have 50 gallons of water in my emergency stash. Was a boyscout. Can't overdo it.


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

If you build it they will come. lol
Arlin


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Roger

You can never Over Engineer a woodworking shop, however, there is nothing that can not be undone either. lol 

Bertha

I thought about 5000 underground rain collectors. Then you can use it to drink or water the garden or grass.

Devann

I think you migh just get taken out with the trash haha


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

My shop is in the loft of our old barn. 44'x 84'. I just looked at what I have posted here and it needs an update…

Half of the area is used for miscellaneous and lumber storage and the elevator. No way I can push full sheets of plywood or planks up a skinny set of old stairs to the loft.

The other half is where I work (about 40' x 44'). Wood floors, dust collection runs under the floor, DC on main level so no noise. Windows at back of shop facing south so it has some good natural light.

I put in 12' ceilings, has radiant heat for the cold Alberta winters, and my biggest issue is the sloped side walls which allow me less wall space for cabinets, machinery sits away from the outside walls, etc.

I had the opportunity to build a new shop on ground level two years ago and I passed it up, couldn't see spending the additional money when I have already insulated and drywalled half the loft and already have that space.

Overall, very happy with my shop, just need some seriously sloped cabinets for my outside walls…


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Jusfine

Can you post some pictures of the outside and inside for us. I am really intrested to see what you did. I really like the deminations and the elevator alot

Arlin

Edit: Any and all pictures of the elevator and how it was constructed would be most awesome here. I am wanting to build one for disabled Vets/Law Enforcement/Firefighters/Emt personal


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

Outside of the barn? Elevator dimensions? sure, let me know exactly what you need.

Going out now to feed horses, will snap a few more photos if it's not too dark when I am done.


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## MedicKen (Dec 2, 2008)

Detached timber framed with wood floors and tongue and groove cedar on the walls. Under floor dust collection to a cyclone in an outside cabinet. Compressed air ALL over the shop. Lots of windows and skylights for natural light and of course all 3 phase machines with a nice RPC also outside in an enclosed closet. Electric outlets available in center of the room via floor outlets. Air conditioning and heat. I have A/C now but a full system dedicated to the shop. Separate finishing room, bathroom and an office area. Plenty of florescent lighting for working at night. ALL of my machines would be heavy cast iron and vintage. I am almost there with the machines all I need now is for my wife to land a great job so I can afford the rest.


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

What Ken said plus…..

A rocker or recliner for when you worked to exhaustion and all you want to do is sit and stare at your shop. Oh, and a kegorator while your sitting there. Ahhhh bliss.


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Ken

That sounds like an awesome shop. Can you post it here so everyone can get some ideas from it.
Thanks
Arlin

PS - Also what AMP breaker box are you using?


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Lys

How about an entertainment system to watch some woodworking DVDs.

I have been planing that for training purpuses for new recutes.

What size screen should I get?


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Arlin, I am going to disagree with you here. For me, no TV in the shop. I'd just want to sit there and stare and design and day dream and think about the next steps and listen to tunes and look at my progress and drink a beer.

Your situation is different however. I recently researched TVs and decided on a 65" Panasonic plasma for HT viewing. For training purposes I would get the largest and cheapest HD screen I could afford which is probably going to be LCD technology.


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Lys

I know alot of guys would not like TV/Moniters in the shop, however, for me and others like me, it is just to hard to remember things. So when turning or woodworking on a certain subject we are working on. We can have the DVD up and ready so when we get stuck we can watch the DVD on how to do it again.

All I can tell you is Brain Damage is a terrible thing to work with and I and others need all the help we can get.

How much does a 65" LCD 1080p cost on discount or used with a speaker system for us hearing impaired?

Arlin


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Arlin, I hear ya. I took my iPad into the shop plenty to follow along with TWW guild build.

As far as the TV I have no idea. But I would definitely,save $$ on yesterdays technology and check Costco, SAMs, or even NewEgg.


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

Arlin, it was too dark by the time I finished up. Will get you dimensions and pictures tomorrow.

This is strictly a lift for lumber, 1.5" square tubing, anchor points on each corner, custom sling to a center pull and attached to a 2 ton hoist.

Press and hold the button and I can bring a lift (40-60 sheets) of plywood to the loft level). Only disadvantage is that it is a bit wobbly with the center point lift.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Re screens, you could always go with a projector. You could bag it up to keep the dust off when not in use. I researched screens like Scott did and I ended up going with an LED. I've got a smallish Sharp Aquos HD in my shop that I've been really happy with. Just make sure it will take any signal you throw at it (HDMI, RGB, etc.). Also remember that HDMI cables are still pretty expensive for long runs. Just a thought. 
.
Sams/Costco carry Vizio which is a great bargain and they seem to hold up pretty well. I've got a big one in my gym and it's still running strong. You can get a soundbar for a few hundred bucks but it won't throw far in a big shop. You might just get an inexpensive receiver and some larger speakers. For sheer loudness, you can't go wrong with Klipsch. I think a horn-based speaker would work well for the hard of hearing (me). 
.
Things are cheaper than they used to be and Scott is right; buy the old tech, not the hot tech. You don't need some ridiculous refresh or contrast ratio on a shop screen. The plasma's not a bad way to go, now that people have all but disregarded them. Good luck!


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Ya, that is the only way I go anymore. Uncle Sam want to much of my money and the everyone else wants the rest.

A used LCD or Plasma I have never owned, can a person hook up DVDs to them?

Now all I have to do is think of a good elevator to get people up and down safety without State and Feds

Arlin


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

Arlin I love the idea your dreaming up but I don't know how to help you. I guess you could form a not for profit organization and then Seat a board of directors to do the brain work and to raise funds Your going to have to have a load of space and on sight teachers. This is not an easy task. You should write up a business plan. I know that you have your wonderful wife to assist you until you get a board seated. I am also worried about a carrier for liability insurance for your dream shop. Having all these disabled people in one place may require you to have some sort of health care provider on site and that could be as simple as a paramedic. There are tons of things your going to have to have well planed to pull this off and your going to need some help. I don't have the answers But I know what it takes to make a shop run and I am a nurse aware of the needs of the disabled population. So I can recommend you get a nurse on your board and a person who knows how to raise capitol from donations. Your going to want to find some people that will work within your guidelines and stay on task. This could be a big thing if you pull it off it could have several shops around the country but the first shop has to be a success I would look into some of the retirement community shops and get ideas from people who have pulled this type of facility off before No need to reinvent the wheel if you know what I mean. This can happen if you plan well and get others involved that is where you should focus your ideas and efforts IMHO


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Lance

You do not have to help. I have already done that part. Just talking about shops of our dreams.
The rest is taken care of, I have spent 2 years on this project so far and am way ahead of you.

Arlin


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

I wonder if Women have the same dream shops as men?


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Just a question for everyone

Should the roof of your shed or building have a Metal or Shingle roof?

I like the looks of the Metal one but I do not know how durable it is and is it hail proof?

Arlin


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

Arlin, my barn has had a metal roof for the last 22 years, no hail damage, and it has hailed here alot.

The advantage is that it is quite a steep roof, and it is a heavier guage metal, so I cannot confirm a lower pitch roof with a lighter guage metal would stand up as well.

I love the sound of the rain on a metal roof…


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Randy

How does it hold or disapate the heat is it better or worse then shingles. Also what gauges of metal do they have for roof tops. I guess one thing is the snow does not stick very well I would guess.

Thanks
Arlin


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

There is a great range of guages for the metal, I am not sure where they start and stop. 
I went with a commercial company so I wouldn't have to be fixing it…

Mine is called a standing seam metal roof, below is a photo taken early last spring. Shop is in the loft.










The roof is actually green, a light coating of snow sticking to it here.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Awesome structure, Randy. That's precisely the sort of fence I wanted around my property but the quote was absurd.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

My dream shop is the one I have, only with wood floor, A/C and better lighting. Both under my control, so someday…


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Smit, I've got enough left over flooring to do my shop. The thought of moving everything out prevents me from probably ever doing it, lol. If I move it out, it'll be into a new shop


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Randy

For one that is a very nice old working barn. My Grand Father in Minnesota had a dairy herd when I was much younger and I loved being in it all the time along with the twin silos.

Smitty

Do you have any pictures of the inside and outside and how you have it layed out?
I sometimes wonder if I should even put wood floors in. There are some pluses and minises in haveing them I think. However, they do look wonderful and also help dropped handtools. 

Bertha

I would say I would like to see a picture of your shop, however, I do not know what susprises you would have instore for us.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Al - That is a major obstacle, for sure. Arlin, it's certainly nothing with Wow factor but are welcome to view the shop pics here on LJs I've posted. The building is 42' wide, I carved out a third of it for my woodshop and the rest is lumber and 'misc.' storage. I love having a shop, it's simply amazing. And it's right next to my house.

Jusfine - Love that barn!


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Smitty

I did not see any pictures of your shop just pictures of furniture you made.


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

I am incredibly jealous of justfine.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

http://lumberjocks.com/Smitty_Cabinetshop/workshop

Try that location…

+1 for jealousy…


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

+2 for jealousy. Do you remember when he hammered HPOYD with his shoulder plane collection? This shop is only one of many tricks he's got up his sleeve


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

No $hit, right? Just when I think that I am being irrational with the time, effort and money I am putting into this woodworking deal, I think of justfine and I realize that I am OK. For now.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Just saw your tagline, Al.  For the love of Pete… < he said, laughing… >


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

lololol


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Al 
So is Smit saying it is Open Season? lol

Smitty

I looked at your links. You sure have alot of bench top space with all the small to large benches.


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

Aw shucks… thanks guys for the comments on my barn and shop…

Al, I have short sleeves and there's not much up them these days. P.S. I did the fence myself (augered the holes, tamped and leveled each post), it was a lot of work.

I see I am in need of new photos on my shop page, will try to update that this weekend.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Arlin- As far as metal vs shingle roofing: When a hailstorm TOTALED the roof on my house and shop, my metal barn roof sustained NO damage.


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Well there ya go. A big plus for Metal now. Did you rebuild your house and shop with metal roof?

Thanks gfadvm


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Nope- The insurance paid for new shingled roof but wouldn't go for the metal upgrade.


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

As some of you may know my wife and I moved to my Father in Laws (FIL) 2 weeks ago and she is just finishing up with the moving.
We did this since my FIL has bad Alhymers and I am getting around slowly now from the brain surgery and she could not take care of both of us in two places.

My FIL and us are on the same 100 acres so it was the smartest move for all of us so I could help watch him also in my own small way.

Guys; I really hope and pray that none of you or the ones you love Ever, Ever get Alshymers. I have seen a very very intelligent man in just 5 years go to nothing. Even the last 2 weeks have been dramitic and my wife and Brother in Law are now have scheduled a Care taker to come once a week to help out.

I would never wish this on anyone to have. I have seen some Funny things happen that he does and some things that just make me cry for him.
He can not take care of himself, talks to himself all the time thinking someone is there, and seeing people or little kids running around the house and alot of other things you could not imigan unless you have seen a loved one go through this.

I really do not think he will last the year out. It is so very hard to get him to eat or sleep or take his meds or do anything. He no longer in the last week remembers anyones names including us.

It is so sad and if you ever see someone that may even have something like this, do not think them dumb or stupid, but it is a something bad that causes this and have some pitty and treat them right. It may just be you someday.

Arlin


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Arlin, Your FIL is in our prayers. This is a terrible disease, especially if he realizes it.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Arlin, it's the most brutal of things, dementia. I'm terribly sorry for your situation. Imagine the situation if they didn't have you. Stand strong, friend.


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## RibsBrisket4me (Jul 17, 2011)

Rick D's shop is REALLLY SWEEET!

Arlin….Alzheimers has hit close to us too…right now we just have to accept it.


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## RibsBrisket4me (Jul 17, 2011)

Man, looking at pics, there are some NICE shops ya'll have.


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## N6DSW (May 25, 2009)

Shop I've always dreamed of? It's really simple…I want Norm's shop and all the sponsor supplied top-end "toys" and the raw wood inside too.

-Dave


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

This is what I would like for a Wood shop / Club showen to me by Bertha

The outside of the barn










The bottom Top of the T










From another angle










This is the long part of the building and it will not have any walls here.










I plan on having the top part of the T just for Wood turning since it is the heavyest of tools and also keep the stalls and put 2 lathes in each stall. I had a waiting line of 10 Vets before to learn how to turn pens and the more lathes the better and I will also have a few bigger lathes.

The long part will have Sharpening station, Bandsaws of verious sizes, and all the hand tool for making flat wood projects.

The upstairs is all open and I will make that all powertools along with a 1ton hoist to bring things up and down.

What I really like is all the wood. Isn't it awesome. Thanks for the link Bertha

Arlin


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

I've worked in several buddy's shops. Three things are top on my list:


Lots of space
Lots of light
Lots of A/C & heat


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Rance

Those 3 are the biggest factors for sure.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Arlin- That looks like a horse barn to me.


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Andy

It is. I do think it will work great for a wood shop / Club also. 

That is why I like the 12'x12' stalls also for lathe work for the guys and gals too. Mess is kept in a small area and no flying objects coming out. Plus tons and tons of working space and it looks great on our farm too.

What do you think?


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Looks great to me but needs horses!


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

LOL

I will call it the Horse Club then


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

Arlin, no need to call any horse club, I can supply whatever you need ifor horses…

I just checked and they said they would be happy to live in that barn!


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Jusfine, horses or veterans would be equally proud in that barn.


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## AJswoodshop (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm thinking like a 20+20 square, (with a lumber room and a separate dust collector room) that's my dream shop.

AJ


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

AJ

If you start wanting seperate rooms you will have to start bigger then 20×20. 
Arlin


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

I thing I found a store that has been out of business for 12 years and is still for sale/rent.

It is an old Big Lots store which is 120' x 195' and I do thing that would make an awesome wood working club for everyone around. It even has a 45' overhang where trucks pulled in to unload cargo.

I will try to take some pictures and even call the business to see what can be worked out with a down payment and monthly payments until it is paid off.

Now can you just imigian how many wood workers can gather there everyday to do wood working, scrollsawing, wood Lathe work, Bandsaw work, Carving, and anyother wood working in one city. This just blows my mind how many new and experienced wood workers could do there.


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