# I need a web page.



## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

My business is taking off. By that I mean I finally sold something. Now I think it's time to create a webpage for my business. 
I'd like it to be a custom home page which has thumbs of my products which when clicked on take you to an Amazon.com type preview of the product.

I wonder how to go about getting this done.

I've hit up some friends, and looked at some pro's, but remain undecided.

Any advice appreciated.


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

What is your experience with web development? From the sounds of it, not much.

You could put an ad out for local pros to help you. Either that, or find some service that has ready-made templates for you to fill in.

My constant word of advice is something is almost always better than nothing in this case.

As far as which route to go, well, that'll really depend on how much you want to spend in the end. Having a web developer keep your site updated or having a complex site can get pretty expensive. There are several guys on here with smaller sites that serve their purposes well and maybe will do the same for you.

Your site seems fairly simple though and I'd estimate it wouldn't take much to have a pro set one up and get you going. You could probably be done in a day or so.

You're going to need a host for your site as well and for most people, the hosting options are pretty cheap and plentiful.

Any idea on how much you want to spend or how much you plan to be involved? Do you want a local guy? How often do you plan on changing your site?


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

You can find somebody local to you easily on Craigslist. You might
want to use Wordpress because after it is set up you can edit the
content yourself easily. A good Wordpress web designer will be
able to set you up quickly with something that looks good and 
does what you need it to do. If it is somebody local, you'll open
up a source for referrals for your own business as well.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Russ, my stepson is pretty darned good with the site setup stuff. He's in Memphis.
If you'd like, PM me and I'll contact him and have him contact you.
I have no fiscal interest in his work. Just wish I was as smart. Your call of course.
Bill


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

I think I'll try godaddy.com.


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

I bought my domain from GoDaddy, but I host with BlueHost. I tried transferring my domain from GoDaddy to BlueHost a few months ago, since my second domain is registered through BlueHost, but GoDaddy was not very cooperative in helping me get that done, and the request was eventually refused by GoDaddy's end. Others probably have good things to say, but I'm neutral. Other than that incident, I have no other complaints, but that's also 100% of my dealings other than initial purchase.

Something to look at when picking a hosting company is things like the amount of storage space they'll let you have, and the amount of bandwidth they'll let you use. The other thing to make sure, is that if they have a bandwidth limit, to find out what they do if you go over. Some places will rack up huge bills if you go over, others will simply just display an "over bandwidth" message to anyone trying to access it. For this reason, I went with BlueHost, since I get unlimited bandwidth, at a fair price.

For something simple that won't have a shopping cart or handle the actual selling/monetary exchange, that should be relatively easy, and fairly cheap if you hire someone. I work at a software consulting company, and I do almost nothing but web related projects. My estimate for something simple and not involving eCommerce, would probably be around 8-10 hours form someone who cares, and knows what they're doing. Could probably be done in less time, but probably not to the same standards.

Doss does bring up a good point, though. You'll probably want to be able to change it yourself, so making it too complicated may not be the greatest idea if you're not comfortable making code changes yourself. It's always possible to make something that has tools to make it easily editable, but takes more time.

It basically comes down to what you want it to look like, how you want it to work, and what you want to do with it yourself. I would suggest coming up with a clear and detailed definition of these in a form that you could present people with. Images of what you want are a huge bonus, even if they're not polished perfect examples of what you want.


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

Like *Mos*, I have Bluehost as my host. It's what we run my wife's (and by extension, my) blog off of. It's built with Wordpress (plus a custom theme) (www.southernsprout.com).

I'd definitely recommend having something in place that you can modify yourself when you're just starting up. Most of the guys I know that do this for a living have a monthly service fee for a set number of modifications and then you pay extra for anything over. Those are sites that update "often" though. I'd imagine on a site like your's they'd just charge per change… that could get pretty pricey.

Also like *Mos* said, please have a design ready to go. Even if it's just sketches on how you want it to look. The last thing you want to do is either let the developer do it how *they* want to do it (which they will do if you let them) or have constant back-and-forth revision sessions with a developer. I say this as a developer b/c I know how frustrating that can be on both ends and, again, how expensive that can be.

You don't need a rockstar dev to do this… just someone that shows some competency and has good referrals.

*Make sure to get a portfolio of their work (usually by visiting the sites they've made) before hiring!*


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

For transactions I use Paypal and find that my customers are agreeable with this set up
as most people already have Paypal accounts. It makes it easier for both parties.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

An old friend of mine offered to help, he designed Sprint.com. I think we got this one in the bag. He even said he'd do it free.


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## Puzzleman (May 4, 2010)

I have used godaddy in the past and they are good for what you pay.

I currently use 3dcart.com for my e-tail site.


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## huff (May 28, 2009)

Russell, 
I'm not a web developer or will even pretend to be one ( but I am married to one! LOL). I don't try to sell my work on the internet, but I do use it for a place to direct people to see some of my work, etc.
I see what my wife goes through when developing a web-site for a client and realize there is a lot more to a web-site then what meets the eye. If you really want your web-site to work for you, then I would probably suggest getting someone professional to help you with it. You can still be envolved in it, but if you don't understand the coding, how to validate your site, how to grade your site for errors, how to optimize your site, etc., then you will not get the most from your site. I've seen a lot of sites made with templates (nothing wrong with that), hosted by good hosting companies and the site really looks good, but when you look at the internal makings of the site, you find all kinds of errors and not even validated. It may look good on the outside, but it's not really working.
If you decide to hire a professional developer, don't take it for granted they know what they're doing either. There's a lot of level's of quality in that field also, just like there is in woodworking. Make sure you check them out and ask a lot of questions. Good luck and hope you have a ton of success


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Thanks Huff. I do have a professional and I plan to do it just the way you said it by directing customers to it and have them do paypal or cash.


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

I'm looking at weebly. It was recommended by a friend.


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## bruc101 (Sep 13, 2008)

I think I'll try godaddy.com.

Godaddy is one of the worst hosting companies in the industry. We flushed GD down the toilet several years ago for any and everything they offer.

http://www.webhostingreviews.com/go-daddy-reviews.htm


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## dnick (Nov 17, 2011)

I hired a company about 5 years ago to design my website & it was a disaster. Good friend referred me to somone who could correct the mistakes. Find someone you trust to point you in the right direction.


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## GPM (Aug 26, 2010)

Russell,

You are facing what countless others face when they realize they truly need a web presence. I am an engineer as well as a wood worker. My company built a large commercial website three years ago and the headaches and disappointment that went with trying to figure out the universe of website creation was terrible.

However, we managed over time to put together a skilled and effective team for our project. Soon friends and associates began to ask us to loan them our team. So, we decided to create a site that helps people figure out what they need, what level of features, what pricing, and what customization. We have made the process of setting up a website, whether it be quick and simple or complex and full featured, a very straight forward process and a great relief to anyone who has ever attempted to do this on their own.

You can read about it at http://www.solutionsxyz.com/Web_Programming_Services.html On that page you will see links to our web hosting, domain names, web designs, etc. It is at www.WebSolutionsXYZ.com We offer 24/7 support and lease our solutions from the largest web hosting company in the US.

If nothing else you can get some guidance by reading the pages and part of what we do is to help people make the best decisions for their particular situation and budget. I am happy to help if I can.

Greg


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## bruc101 (Sep 13, 2008)

And who would the largest web hosting company in the US be that you use?


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## Triumph1 (Dec 20, 2009)

Russell,

I have a brother who who did the research for me. Out of all the ones offered he suggested going with Jimdo. I have had great luck with them. I sat for an day with my brother learning how to build my site and after that I now manage and update the entire site. Very easy learning curve and it is only $60 a year. I like the fact that I can manage/update it since the only other option is to keep paying or bothering something to update it for you. Give Jimdo a look…i think you would like it.


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## Zinderin (Jul 24, 2012)

I am a Senior Systems Analyst and Programmer Analyst by trade (over 30 years in the business) ... I offer you this …

Know EXACTLY what you want (and don't want) out of a website and make that clear to anyone you contract.

Don't allow them to sell you features you don't want, and never never never say "You're the expert you tell me what I need." You wouldn't do that with a care salesman or a general contractor … web site developers are no different.

Don't judge your website by how pretty it is, judge it by how functional it is. You can worry about the artsy-fartsy stuff later.

And finally, realize that websites are like sanding for most wood workers … no one likes having to do it, but the ones that take the time to do it and not cut corners, are the ones that are the most successful.

The best scenario is to find someone in your family who is technical so they can explain what you really mean, and have them help you find and work with a designer. DO NOT contract a family member or friend to do your site … its the quickest way to one less family member or friend.


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## mprzybylski (Nov 21, 2011)

I may not always be able to help people on this forum when it comes to woodworking as I'm just starting out but this is right up my alley. I'm a senior interactive developer for one of the largest advertising agencies in the world, Sapient. You can view my portfolio here. I'm currently staffed to the Jeep account team and have worked with many large scale brands over my career.

I read alot on this forum to not undersell your woodworking skills. This applies to pretty much everything in life, web development included. Oftentimes people want the world for nothing just because you can purchase a template on a site for $20. I'm about to get on my soapbox for a paragraph so if you're not interested skip through the next section.

You can compare web dev to just about any work but since this is a woodworking forum I'll compare to that. When trying to figure out what you will pay for a custom site you should pretty much start right around $2,500 (for any developer who is worth their weight in gold) and plan on going up from there. This number is justified by realizing that to make a site you have to design it, break apart the design, code it, test it on anywhere from 5-15 browsers/devices, and make sure everything is going well there. Then you can add in anything custom like galleries, a content management system, back-end development, etc and you can see how this cost can spiral out of control very quickly. All of these things take time, a lot of it, and if you don't know what you're doing you will get lost and frustrated. You may be able to get a wordpress site up and running for free but inevitably there will come a time where you will want to add on to it and it may not be something wordpress can do or has a plugin for. Each portion of site creation is also its own, much in the same way as woodworking. You have to construct a piece, sand it, finish it, etc. Well, you have to design a site, develop it, SEO it, deploy it, market it, etc. Sure you can find people who do all of these things but finding someone that can do EVERYTHING well is not easy.

I met with a local cabinetmaker once and we sat for two hours (I also drove to downtown Chicago to see him, about an hour ride for me from the burbs each way) and we talked about what he wanted on his site. All custom site, custom design, custom logo, galleries, the whole nine yards. He told me about his high end projects, how he's done kitchens for Nate Berkus, etc. so I figured once we got to price it shouldn't be an issue. I asked what his budget is and he said "I was thinking in the range of $250-300". I almost died laughing on the spot. Unfortunately, this is a reality every developer faces as people just don't know the value of good sites because the market is saturated with crap and templates. I proceeded to explain to him that I can go to IKEA and buy a kitchen made of particleboard for $1,000 (I'm not sure of the pricing but I suspect its alot less than custom) or I can have him design/develop my kitchen out of maple and/or cherry for $10,000. The analogy was lost on him so I offered to do his site in exchange for him teaching me everything he knows/I need to know about making cabinetry from start to finish. He was basically unwilling to do that and I never heard from him again.

Point is, if you want it done right, hire a professional who knows what they're doing. You wouldn't cut corners when hiring an engineer to help in designing your house because you'd be afraid it would collapse. Same concept applies here. You can hire somebody off the street and pay a low amount but as people have already spoken about the horrors of that I won't go into detail.

I apologize if I sound harsh but I face this very problem all the time with people devaluing custom work. Because I'm part of this community and people have helped me tremendously in my woodworking endeavors, feel free to ask me any questions you want and I'll try my best to steer you in the right direction.

As for my suggestions, BlueHost is a decent host. I use a company called MediaTemple which will give you superior service for $180/year. It may be overkill for you so BlueHost may be a better choice but for me it's been great and their support is top notch. I use GoDaddy for my domain name registration (AND ONLY THAT) as it has already been mentioned they are crap for everything else. Even the name registration I'll be looking at alternatives in the future but to be honest I haven't had any issues with them for the past 10 years that I've had my domain(s), I'm only switching out of pure principle (questionable tactics, sleezy marketing, etc).

Let me reiterate, if anyone has any questions pertaining to this stuff, my inbox is always open and I'm more than willing to help to try to repay some of the knowledge I've gotten on this site for woodworking.

Best of luck on your site.


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

As a developer myself, I would tend to agree with you on most points except the pricing starting point. You can get a well-designed, functional website up and going for a lot less. I know several developers who are really good and they don't mind cranking out a $1000 basic site. Some of them don't even mind doing it for 500-750 depending on what needs to be done. It'll take them about a day if you don't have that many frills and sparkly things requested.

When I'm working on projects for clients through my job, yes, the rates get crazy. It's not unreasonable to get charges that range from $40-250 per hour per person depending on what's being done. What you have to remember is, with a larger company, you're usually dealing with a lot of overhead (which justifies the pricing). The guys that freelance (many from these larger companies) usually are working from their home office with little overhead.

Testing on all devices and browsers is essential when you're working on an huge development or for a huge company with many features enabled and where they're paying for a level of finish and support that their money commands. For what *Russell* was asking for though, it's complete overkill (IMO).

He said he's got a guy that I guess worked on the firm who made Sprint's website (or one of their websites). I'm sure that guy probably qualifies as someone who could do the job (with no supporting facts for or against that available).


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

I do have a professional, he designs Sprint's web pages. He's giving it to me out of the goodness of his heart as an old friend who has helped him many times before.


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## mprzybylski (Nov 21, 2011)

@Doss: pricing is all relative (experience, hourly rate, locale, etc) so I can't argue with you there. But you said the magic words, it'll take them about a day if you dont have that many frills and sparkly things. Very seldom is this the case and if you have to make a design AND develop the site I'd question anyone making anything of quality in a day.

Secondly, the point about testing multiple devices: In this case it MAY be overkill (only Russell can decide that) but considering the general age group of people who will be purchasing custom woodworking (read: not people in their early 20s) chances are those people are using an ancient browser like IE7, IE8, or *SHUDDER* IE6 even. If you've ever developed for these browsers you'll know it'll take substantially longer to make your awesome designs look good in them 

@Russell: I'm sure your friend will serve you well in your endeavors. My reply was not only aimed at you though but also at everyone else who is/will eventually read this thread. Sprint is (or was, at least) a client of Razorfish, an agency I freelanced for for about 4 years before I went full time at my current job. At the time, Razorfish was the agency on record for Sprint if I'm not mistaken. Does your friend work for Razorfish by any chance?


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

*Matt*, I understand and wasn't trying to argue with you about it. I was just adding that you shouldn't *start* at around $2500. That's a little on the high side for a basic site (which is pretty much what I'd qualify this as). Now, if *Russell* wanted to add a cart and ordering system, etc. (he may have said that, I just didn't see it), then yes, $2500 is more than a reasonable starting price.

I know the pitfalls of the different browsers considering most of my developments now are designed to work on newer systems with little regard to mobile compatibility. This is through thought of user experience and interaction though and not one of simple disregard.

*Russell*, post up a link when you can.


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## mprzybylski (Nov 21, 2011)

@Doss: apologies if what I said sounded like arguing, by no means am I trying to come off that way. Russell did mention he wanted a preview system a-la Amazon (where you have a gallery basically and zooming in/out of an image if that's what he's after) so that would certainly take some extended scripting to accomplish (or finding a plugin that does it and modifying it for his needs). In any case, some JavaScript knowledge would certainly be helpful there so I don't really see it as something just anyone can tackle.

When all is said and done, I'd also like to see the site when finished.


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## GarageWoodworks (Jun 30, 2012)

@Doss - I use to get a "Phoenix Toolkit Website 4 attack" warning when visiting your website. Glad to see you took care of that.

http://www.symantec.com/security_response/attacksignatures/detail.jsp?asid=25788


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

Yeah, *Garage*, I think you told me about that before (or someone else on here did). I think a few of the comments left on the site were left by blacklisted or similar "users". I had a lot of fun (sarcasm) sorting through the system trying to track those down. I noticed we had two or three posts that repeated were hit by SPAMmers and had to block the commenting on those. We are in the midst of adding new content. The wife and I took a break to work on our house and have had little time to sort the pics and divide the content up for us to post up. Thanks for visiting!

*Matt*, no, I wasn't offended or anything. I was just clarifying that I wasn't arguing against you. Just giving a slightly different option/perspective.


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## GarageWoodworks (Jun 30, 2012)

@Doss - Nope. I never mentioned it to you. What was the source of the malicious code on your website?


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## Kinloch (Aug 15, 2012)

Russell,

I have a business partner who sets up websites. They are $50 per month, but completely customizable, 24 hour technical service, ecommerce, search engine optimization, and allows you to connect with all other sources of social media.

Let me know if you are interested! And best of luck with your business! I hope we can help you!

Jessie 
[email protected]


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