# Good beginner plane



## Gwjames (Oct 20, 2014)

Ok so I've been wood working for a little under a year and I want to get a good first hand plane to try my luck with hand tools. I've read some forums and reviews and I think a #4 smoothing*** plane is a good bet for first plane but when looking at reviews I see a lot of them have to be sharpened and leveled and all kinds of other crap straight out of the box and I don't know how well all that would go with having no experience. I really don't know anything about planes the #4 plane is really just a guess. I bought a 15 dollar block plane from a big box store just to try it out and I think some of it is my set up but I can't use that on freakin anything lol. Just looking for a little advise. Thanks jocks


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## DocBailey (Dec 9, 2011)

First things first-a $15 block plane from a big box store is not likely to be a quality plane. (I assume we're talking Kobalt, right?)

Next up-the *smoothing* planes (in Stanley numbering terms) are #1-4
Next is the #5-referred to as a *jack* plane.
The #6 is a *fore* plane. #7 & 8 are referred to as *jointers*

go here and do some reading on these basic bench planes: http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan1.htm

At this point, the question you should really be asking yourself is why do I want a plane? What do you intend to do with it?

If you're going to take rough stock and dimension it (flatten the faces and square the edges)-you'll want a jack (a #5).
If you're starting with finished lumber and you intend only to smooth it, then you want a smooth plane (like a #4)
Truing up long edges in preparation for a glue-up might call for a jointer. And so on.

These aren't the only tasks each plane can accomplish, but I hope you get the general idea.

Lastly, it is possible to buy vintage planes which have already been "fettled" - our own Don W is one such source.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

A #4 is a smoother plane. A #5 is a jack plane.

You have 2 options: Buy used, or buy new. If you buy new, the cheapest I would go would be for a Woodriver plane, but it's not much cheaper than a plane from Lee Valley which is better than the Woodriver. If that is too expensive for you ~$200, then you should buy a used, pre-WWII stanley plane.

If all you want to do is make it so you don't need to use sandpaper ever again, get a #4. If you want to do some flattening as well, get a #5.


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## Gwjames (Oct 20, 2014)

I didn't expect much from a 15 dollar plane, I had just never used one before and I wanted to play with one. I believe it was made by a company called buck bro. when I buy lumber it is rough, but I pay the shop I buy it from to use their planer and jointer. so I think starting off I would probably want a #4 just to smooth it after glue ups and such.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

A $15 dollar plane is most likely a plane shaped object, that merely looks like a plane. For a first plane get a #5 jack. A new functional plane is going to cost some cash, see Lee Valley or Lie-Nielson. If that is too steep then look for a used pre WWII Stanley. Then learn to sharpen the iron and tune it. There are some good books that cover this.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

You can sometimes pick up a nice plane from those who have already tuned it (flattened the sole, and cleaned it up; sometmes called "fettled") and the #4's I've seen are typically less than $100. Forums such as these are good sources for such a plane. I think that would be your best bet, nothing worse than having your first plane be nothing but aggravation. Another option would be to pick one up that is need of total rehabilitation and have it ground by a fellow named tablesawtom (member on several of these forums) who does this as a side business. He grinds the sole flat, squares the sides to the sole, and flattens the back of the iron….on a #4, I think he charges about $40.


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## Gwjames (Oct 20, 2014)

what is the difference in a regular smoothing or jack plane and a low angle smoothing or jack. I get that the iron is lower but what is the advantage to this?


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

> I didn t expect much from a 15 dollar plane, I had just never used one before and I wanted to play with one. I believe it was made by a company called buck bro. when I buy lumber it is rough, but I pay the shop I buy it from to use their planer and jointer. so I think starting off I would probably want a #4 just to smooth it after glue ups and such.
> - Gwjames


I bought one of those "Buck Brothers" plane looking things once.
I got the larger #4 size for around $30, I think it was, from Home Depot. They work pretty well as door stops.

It can not be emphasized enough, you absolutely must learn the "sharpening and leveling and all kinds of other crap" part of plane usage or any money spent on a hand plane is just wasted.

Even if you purchased a $500 top line plane that comes with all the adjustment and sharpening done for you, after using it for a short while it will have to be taken apart and the iron sharpened and then re-assembled and adjusted.

I'm going to suggest, if you want to learn this in its simplest form, get a good block plane. It can be a refurbished used one or a new Wood River or Veritas and work with it and learn the sharpening and adjusting and technique. You will spend less than $100 and learn a valuable skill. I have several planes in my shop but I always have a block plane near by if I'm doing any kind of wood working.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

None, other than putting YOUR money into someone else's pocket.

A low angle Jack plane is nothing more than a overgrown block plane. Supposed to be better on gnarly grain and exotics. Seems to be a few other cutters can be used on it, too. BFD.

Good beginner plane would be a Millers Falls #14 Jack plane, and a Millers Falls #8 or #9 smooth plane. One could get a Stanley 9-1/2 block plane, too. These three will do about any plane-related job a beginner would come up against. And, these three planes would cost less than $100 at the most. Save the rest of the money for things to sharpen those planes, and maybe some lumber to make some shavings with.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

My first experience was that any "new" tool was ready to use.
Aside from wrenches (in most cases), that was an error on my part. Complete understanding of the purpose of the tool was needed.
Call it what you will, but planes are a tool that can be made useable if you have the ability to tune, sharpen, adjust. This might seem to be an overwhelming task until you know what the tool, plane, whatever, is supposed to do.
FIND A MENTOR.
Bill


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

> None, other than putting YOUR money into someone else s pocket.
> 
> A low angle Jack plane is nothing more than a overgrown block plane. Supposed to be better on gnarly grain and exotics. Seems to be a few other cutters can be used on it, too. BFD.
> 
> - bandit571


Not exactly, no. Have you used one or own one and can make that judgement? Whether it's worth the money depends on each person individually. For me, my low angle smoother has been worth every penny I spent for it. I don't need that for every single plane I own, but on a smoother it makes a lot of sense. Especially when you add in better machining tolerances, better blade alloy, flatter sole, and better working movements.

The biggest advantage to a low angle plane, smoother or jack or jointer, is that you can have multiple blades set up for different angles. Lower angles result in better finish, but more tearout in figured woods. Higher angles require more force, and don't give quite as smooth of a finish, but they are much less prone to tearout.


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## Grumpymike (Jan 23, 2012)

I found a Stanley #4 and a Millers Falls #9c at a garage sale and paid $7.50 and $9.00 for them.
Being unfamiliar with hand planes at the time, but wanting to learn, I thought this was a good place to start.
The #4 I cleaned up, and sharpened the blade, then realized that the blade was installed upside down … put it back together correctly and put it to work with a bit of a learning curve.
The #9c Millers Falls is about the same as the Stanley #4 in size and appearance.
Cleaned up the 9c, sharpened the blade and put it to work … After a few unsuccessful attempts I learned how to adjust the blade and how to hold my tongue … 
I have seen a lot of planes in the flea markets that have cracks and that are warped so bad you would have to send them to a machine shop to try to save them, so look over the potential purchase, remove the blade and look at the frog. sight down the sole and check around the throat.
That is just a few tips to buy a lessor expensive plane, learn how they work and even if you really mess it up your not out a couple hundred bucks.


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## Gwjames (Oct 20, 2014)

Is $20 reasonable for a Stanley #4 on eBay? I bid on one and it's currently 10.50 but I put a max bid of 20. It looks like it needs some tlc but I think I can figure that out


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## Grumpymike (Jan 23, 2012)

If I did not have one I would pay $20 for a #4 Stanley (or a Record if you could find one).
Some of the Stanley's say Bailey on the front and Stanley on the blade clamp.


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## BLarge (Aug 29, 2011)

> None, other than putting YOUR money into someone else s pocket.
> 
> A low angle Jack plane is nothing more than a overgrown block plane. Supposed to be better on gnarly grain and exotics. Seems to be a few other cutters can be used on it, too. BFD.
> 
> ...


I'd disagree here. The 62 low angle Jack is a great tool, versitile and less expensive that most 5's. You can hollow grind extra blades for different approaches and needs, it is also great with the low angle standard blade to shoot end grain. Lie nielsen makes a toothed blade that I've heard is great for heavier stock removal on fought boards.

For a beginner, it's a great plane. There is really nothing I can't do with my 62 that my 5 does, plus its a little light and I think just as easy to fine tune. To be honest, I reach for that tool more than anything outside of my 7


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

These are what I use









There is a Big one on the left, A DE6c and is my small jointer plane
Next to it, a Stanley #5-1/2 Jumbo Jack
Next a few #5 jack planes. From just the corners dubbed off to a full 8" camber
Next a Stanley 5-1/4 Household jack, lighter than the larger jacks, same width iron as a #3

The small planes are the #5 sizes, and the #3 sized planes

Hanging around at the top, are a few of my block planes, there is also a low angled one, in it's original box, stashed in the tool chest.

Considering I started out with a Great Neck #4, a blue Stanley #110, and a wood bodied Jack plane ( #129) it is a wonder I even used planes back then.

That #4 on the Feebay? GET IT! It can be cleaned up, sharpened up and most importantly…USED.


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## Gwjames (Oct 20, 2014)

http://m.ebay.com/itm/111602875363?nav=BIDDING_ACTIVE

Tell me what yall think of this one


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

User plane, not a collector's trophy, but a very usable plane. Looks like it still has the factory grind on the cutter, should be an easy tune.


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## crossfacecraddle (Dec 27, 2013)

Ok go to this site https://paulsellers.com/ and go through the free videos on how to sharpen, set up and use hand planes. Paul Sellers is the man. On ebay you will pay a little less than $50 for a #4 Stanley in real good condition in the vintage tools. Sharpening, is obviously very important and to get the most out of any plane you have to be able to sharpen your tools, so check out the free videos. Paul sharpens free hand, I am not that good at it so I use a sharpening guide.

I have always stayed away from the cheap tools, you get what you pay for. On the other hand, spending $300 for one plane, although beautiful, is a bit much for me.


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## crossfacecraddle (Dec 27, 2013)

> http://m.ebay.com/itm/111602875363?nav=BIDDING_ACTIVE
> 
> Tell me what yall think of this one
> 
> - Gwjames


No. Buy an older one made before the mid 1960's. Also buy one with a smooth bottom not a corrugated bottom


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## Gwjames (Oct 20, 2014)

ok, so explain to me the con's of a #4c, from what ive read its essentially the same, the corrugated just makes it lighter and in theory easier to handle. from the things ive read its mostly preference. me being uneducated on the matter, I would like to hear experienced opinions.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

IF you run it along an edge, with a finger as a fence, the grooces may pinch your finger a bit. Thatis the "con", the pro? Much easier to flatten a sole with those grooves, less metal to remove.

Until Stanley started full time in the UK, even the post WWII planes were still quite good. Notice that this is a Stanley model, not a Handyman or Victor, or Defiance. It may take some tune up to get it set up….no big deal.

Just so happens, I have a WWII made by Stanley for Wards #3 plane. Nice little plane.

Smooth or grooved bottom? marketing hype from Stanley, nothing more. Wax and dirt can build up in the grooves, so you do have to watch out for that.


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## Gwjames (Oct 20, 2014)

well since you bring it up, what kind of value would you put on a Stanley handyman #4?


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## Gwjames (Oct 20, 2014)

this one is pretty beat up but for 10 dollars it may be a decent restoration project. the description does not say what plane it is. does this look like a #4 to you?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Stanley-Handyman-Plane-Made-in-USA-/221700222228?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item339e5ced14


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Looks like a #4, might be worth $5….

There are older Handyman planes that have a normal rear handle, rather than that chopped back one. Those can be had for around $8-10.

The best that can be done with that $10 thing? Grind a 8" radius on the cutter, and make it a scrub plane. Otherwise, stick with that post WWII model Stanley…


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

> Is $20 reasonable for a Stanley #4 on eBay? I bid on one and it s currently 10.50 but I put a max bid of 20. It looks like it needs some tlc but I think I can figure that out
> 
> - Gwjames


I've bought several planes on Ebay never got a decent one for less than $50 so good luck on getting one for 20.

I suggest you "check" http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/150874/WoodRiver-4-Bench-Hand-Plane-V3.aspxhttp://

145 bucks and your done! AND you've got a very decent plane to start out with. 
If you pick up a plane for $40 and upgrade the blade you'll have $125 invested.

I have a #6 WoodRiver and it I use it more than my smoother. With a well honed blade and a choked down mouth, I get just as good a finish with the added benefit of some jointer/flattening action.

I've said it over and over there's nothing worse than trying to learn woodworking skills with crappy tools.

Good Luck.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

> If you pick up a plane for $40 and upgrade the blade you ll have $125 invested.


Spending $85 on a new iron isn't necessary unless what you have is severely pitted or used up. If the iron is otherwise good, spending that jack to replace it is not an investment at all.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

> Spending $85 on a new iron isn t necessary unless what you have is severely pitted or used up. If the iron is otherwise good, spending that jack to replace it is not an investment at all.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I used to think that until I went ahead with a blade/cap iron from Lee Valley on my #4 smoother. All I can say is WOW what a difference it really brought the plane to another level.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

I'm happy for you, but unless you're experiencing tear-out or chatter (likely symptoms of not-so-sharp), it's not something folks new to the game should be told to expect as required. There are enough costs associated with hand planes without replacement irons being assumed one of them.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Sometimes, buying a "New & Improved" cutter can make up for not knowing to sharpen what was on the plane to begin with. Rather than taking the time to tune the plane up correctly, they will just drop a new, factory sharpened iron in the plane and call it good.

I had had that Handyman plane for a while, in fact FIVE of them. From a 1203 through to a 1205. I had them tuned up so they could take full width shavings. All it took was a wee bit of time to tune the plane. No After Market irons needed. The barely used factory irons that came with the Handyman planes just needed to be sharpened up.

IF The OP wants, he can ship that $20 Stanley and that $10 Handyman to me, I will tune them both up, and send them back, ready to split hairs. Just throw a return postage label so I can ship them back.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

^ And that is 'paying it forward.' One helluva offer, Gwjames, that I would take up in a heartbeat. You'll certainly know what sharp is when Bandit is done with 'em.


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## ksSlim (Jun 27, 2010)

Great offer Bandit, you do a great job with "old iron".


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## Gwjames (Oct 20, 2014)

that's definitely a great offer, when I finally buy one I will have to send you a PM


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## Gwjames (Oct 20, 2014)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BAILEY-STANLEY-5-WOOD-PLANE-PAT-APRIL-19-1910-EXCELLENT-ORIGINAL-CONDITION-/321674417881?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae54a16d9

thoughts?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Wow. That'll double before all is said and done.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Well, this is a late model Sargent made for Sears ( Fulton) #414 Jack plane, after a wee bit of work by me









Take that back, this IS a Sargent #414, the Fulton one was a wood bodied Trans. plane called a #3416









It is setting there with the other Trans. Planes by Stanley.


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## Gwjames (Oct 20, 2014)

so I think I have finally found exactly what I want. these two look great, they are restored #4 & #5 planes. the guy is asking 120 per, I offered him 200 for the pair, we will see what he says. I am really just guessing at their value, let me know what yall think

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261792169956?_trksid=p2060778.m2763.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261792082575?_trksid=p2060778.m2763.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


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## Avimaelwoodworking (Feb 25, 2015)

Docbailer is right thanks for your answer


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## Gwjames (Oct 20, 2014)

yep, order complete, I am now the proud owner of two restored sweetheart planes, a jack plane and a smoothing plane…


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## crossfacecraddle (Dec 27, 2013)

very nice looking planes, they will give you years of service.


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