# Does not do its only job!



## PurpLev

thanks for the review. I have a few things to say about these gadgets in regards to woodworking:

1. Generally speaking - you get what you pay for. in some cases, the cut corners are not a necessity, so the savings are actually legitimate, in other cases, it really isn't worth the trouble.

2. For woodworking, I rarely rely on numbers and measurements. I find that gauges and fixtures are KING! I use the dials and measurements just as a rough estimation to get me close enough, but then run a few test cuts to sneak up on the actual angle/size. that's how you can make gauges and fixtures that you can then use to setup your machines for a 1-cut operation without fussing with dials, numbers and has anything changed in the universe that can throw you off.

3. to be specific to your case - maybe you got a lemon? HF has a good return/exchange policy - I would use that to get a unit that worked , or return it for a refund.


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## Blackie_

Anything that has to do with precision, I found out a long time ago not to buy cheap and certainly not from HF. I've already been up this road with HF and no longer but that doesn't discourage me from buying HF I am selective on what I buy as they do have needy things. That being said I do have the Wixey and its awesome


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## gfadvm

I assume you zeroed it on the saw table before you put it on your blade? If so, take it back and try another. I have the Wixey from Woodcraft. Very worthwhile and cost about the same as the HF model (on sale).


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## wormil

I've been wanting a Wixey but after reading a lot of reviews on it and similar products it seems like they have about the same failure rate. Take yours back and try another, might get lucky.


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## PurpLev

from what I read - they all share similar fault rates, makes me believe they are all made to similar specs…

as for the "Anything that has to do with precision, I found out a long time ago not to buy cheap and certainly not from HF. " quote - I have to agree but not entirely. Precision wise, I have found many lower-cost alternatives that offer just as precise results as the higher cost options. they usually just don't work as smoothly (machining at lower qualities), but that does not affect their output. To add to that, HF has a fantastic digital micrometer that offers ridiculous precision and works great at an insane low cost. it may not last as long as a starrett I'll give it that, but it is doesn't lack any precision of functionality. do your homework, and get what works best for you, but know the options, and know the limitations of each.


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## 33706

Harbor Freight preys on its trusting customers, like a circus side show barking to the rubes who pay money to see a *'man-eating chicken'*.

I don't see how such a device can EVER be used satisfactorily on a table saw blade. How do you ensure that the body of this tool is perfectly perpendicular to the table top? you can't, unless you have a second DAF to calibrate the first.


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## a1Jim

purchasing from Hf is a hit and miss process. Here's the low cost way to set your blade at 45 Degrees. Thanks for the review.


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## 33706

*@aiJim: Ummm, that's a 30-60-90 degree triangle you posted. It won't help him, bud!*










*Jim's triangle^*


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## a1Jim

As Roy Underhill says"well you get the Idea" LOL


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## 33706

Ok, but I don't conduct woodworking classes….YOU do.


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## YanktonSD

ok that was to funny. not to laugh at you but we all do make mistakes.


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## wormil

Inexpensive digital calipers are another item that are mass produced nearly identically and sold by a variety of companies. From my reading it appears all of them below the price of a Mitutoyo are the same other than maybe a facelift and have about the same features, problems, and failure/error rate. For products like that, you might as well buy the HF model which will be exactly the same as one costing 3 or 4 times as much. If you really need a good one then you have to shell out the $115+ for a Mitutoyo, B&S, or Starrett.


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## ic3ss

I bought the Wixey a couple of years ago and what I found is not that different from your HF one. The big problem with these electonic angle finders is that they are just not reliable without double checking with a square. Afer calibrating it and setting my blade with Wixey to either 45 or 0, when I check with a triangle and a square they both show an error big wnough to put a several thousandth feeler gage through, but sometimes the error is not bad and sometimes it's dead on. If youre doing precision work, you have to do a precision setup. Garbage in, garbage out.

I set mine on a shelf the day I bought it and never used it again.

Wayne


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## oldnovice

I have a Mitutoyo digital calipers (given to me by a former colleague) and I really like it. I also have one from iGaging but it's battery life sucks. I have a dial type and a vernier version from my uncle in Germany.

I use the vernier model the most as it has fewer things that can go wrong with it and it's from my uncle!


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## don1960

Gotta weigh in here about accuracy with tools bought nowadays.

I've been in the Tool & Die business for over 40 years. Watched reputable measurement companies (Mitotoyo, Starrett, Brown & Sharpe, etc go downhill for years. Used to be, you ordered Starrett micrometers as the standard. Never even *thought* about them being inaccurate. The last five years, we have a 95% failure rate on Starrett tools unless you ask for certification papers with them, and even then, 1 out of 10 are useless. Damn shame.

It's an epidemic in every industry. I think. 40 years ago, I bought my first 6" dial calipers. Paid, if I remember correctly, $45 for them. That's what, something like $200 in todays money. Nobody wants to pay that now, so we get crap. It's getting hard to buy quality, even if your willing to pay for it.

OK, rant over….

I have one of the Wixey digital angle gages, and I'll try to remember to bring it in to the shop tomorrow and check it out at various angles. I didn't bother when I got it, as it seems pretty good, but it will be interesting to see how it performs where it can be measured.

Oh, and as far as HF, one of their must have tools is the 4 sided diamond block they sell. It's what I use to sharpen all my Kitchen knives. (ok, not woodworking, but it is a good product, and really cheap)
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-sided-diamond-hone-block-92867.html


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## LoydMoore

I use the Wixey and it has not failed me to date. On day 1, I checked it using my granite block, machinist square a angle blocks. Maybe I was just lucky.


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## Blackie_

*Purplub* "as for the "Anything that has to do with precision, I found out a long time ago not to buy cheap and certainly not from HF. " quote - I have to agree but not entirely. Precision wise, I have found many lower-cost alternatives that offer just as precise results as the higher cost options. they usually just don't work as smoothly (machining at lower qualities), but that does not affect their output. To add to that, HF has a fantastic digital micrometer that offers ridiculous precision and works great at an insane low cost. it may not last as long as a starrett I'll give it that, but it is doesn't lack any precision of functionality. do your homework, and get what works best for you, but know the options, and know the limitations of each."

What you say might be true but are you willing to take that gamble? I'm not, it's cost me much more in the long run by replacing defective tools, One in particular the HF sliding compound miter saw, it was a whole click off from 0 on the table with no way to adjust, I had to make sure the table was plum with the blade every time I wanted to do a cut by way of a square, it's now replaced with a Dewalt. No thank you, no more buying cheap for me, I want all of my cuts, measurements etc… to be precise.


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## JustJoe

I have that HF angle thingamajig too - it was a gift. Mine works perfectly - calibrated once and when it says 45 my blade is at 45. I guess I got lucky and got one of the few that work correctly?


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## Kroden

I have the Wixey myself and it's certainly accurate if I use it accurately.

I found that I can't position it at the top of the blade. To get an accurate reading that way, you'd need to make sure its perfectly centered. What I do is put the angle finder on the blade at the lowest point I can, so the side is resting on the throat plate. Then I'm sure it's leveled on each axis before I start moving the blade.


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## PurpLev

*Blackie_:* - read the rest of my post - DO YOUR RESEARCH AND KNOW YOUR LIMITS. if the savings are worthwhile - it sure would be worth the risk. if they are not - than obviously not - do your homework, and you'll know if it's worth it or not. there is no one rule fits all.

FYI - I would consider 99% of HF junk and wouldn't touch it with a 10ft pole. but there are a few gems - far and few in between -but they are there.


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## OggieOglethorpe

As long as one understands tolerances and specs, devices like the Wixey and a properly working HF version are fine.

For example, Wixey states +/- .1 degree for their device, and .1 degree resolution. This means if it reads 90.0 degrees, the actual measurement could be from 89.951 to 90.150 degrees on a device that meets specs. You can lose .1 degree each way in accuracy, and about another 1/2 degree in resolution.

That said, I find my angle gauge to be plenty accurate for most woodworking, and a time saver for many setups. The exceptions might include angles in situations where error addition will kill me, like frames that have to meet at the forth or more side. In those cases, I'd probably whip out a test cut on MDF and check it against trusted standards, or overshoot the angle so the show edge works out. Since I'm not a factory, and I hand fit my work, the digital angle device is often close enough for me.

Also understand that just because something has a digital readout, it isn't automatically better than a dial face… The human eye can pick up very small differences on an analog dial caliper or indicator, differences that may or may not register within the digital device's accuracy and resolution. Analog dials can be fast when comparing many identical measurements too, as you can mark or move the dial, then quickly take go / no-go measurements without reading. If the needle lands in the wrong spot, it's a no-go… This same idea is often used in race cars and airplanes, where gauge dial faces are rotated so "normal" is straight up. No reading or thinking when normal, just a quick scan, but if the needle isn't close to straight up, you investigate further.

As Scott mentioned, there is a user error potential when using this tool on a round blade. He mentioned one, and it's solution, another can be introduced on saw plates that are relieved or hollow ground.


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## Blackie_

*Purplev* I'm not quite sure what you mean about doing homework, it's more of a trial and error I'd think if that's what you mean? Either way as for as homework goes, I've already done mine and thus have stated my findings, "hence above", Non the less all we can do is voice our opinions and let others decide and make their own decisions of what's best for them.

As for as HF goes yes exactly.


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## GarageWoodworks

Machinist 45 degree angle block, dial indicator and a chunk of wood.

Will get you to within 0.03 degrees - doesn't require batteries - will never fail.

http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=v85&category=all

Substitute square w/ 45 degree angle block in the video.


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## oldnovice

I tend to rely on what *a1Jim* posted.

These triangles are very accurate … at least the used to be back in the drafting board days. I still have mine and found them to be very good for setups specifically because they are clear … and if you happen to drop one on your foot, it won't hurt as much.


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## NormG

Sorry to hear of the tool issue. I have a Wixey and it does just what it is supposed to do.


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## OggieOglethorpe

I also build sleds and jigs with different sized versions of the plastic drafting tools. They are very handy, cheap, and plenty accurate. I think lots of people overlook them because they're so cheap.

The largest 45-90-45 I have has 18" legs, I think it was $13 @ Dick Blick. The thing is fantastic for setting fences to the kerf on crosscut and dado sleds, and squaring large cases.

Another neat trick the drafting tools can do is to provide visual help with grain adjustment cuts on legs.

Simply tape off the size of your leg, leaving the 90 corner clear. View the end grain of the leg through the clear area, selecting the closest to 45 degree rift as possible, then mark your first angled rip using an edge of the square. Make your first rip with the blade set to the angle you just marked, joint and plane the other three faces from your first rip.

Viola! Perfect rift sawn legs! No more ugly transitions on square legs, or cabriole legs with ugly "knee cap" circular figure on the knee.


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## oldnovice

*Barry* that is some large triangle!

I see you like the *clear* advantage too!


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## Buckethead

HF has some decent casters too.


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## Scott_C

Woodworking can be an EXTREMELY expensive hobby. The more tools you buy, the more you need. Harbor Freight makes it doable for some of us. I'd love to buy high end, precision, American Made products, and do when I can, but I'd have a pretty empty shop on my budget. You do have to do your research, test, calibrate, modify your tools, and rely on their return policy to make it work with HF.


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## Routerisstillmyname

I tried one of these few years back and it was way off. eyeballing the angle was more accurate. Got the wixey and it's been dead on accu. Although Beall has a new one out.


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## RibsBrisket4me

I have the Wixey…it's nuts on accurate. I made these miters with my old Craftsman table saw.


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## wormil

A Starrett 505a is only a little more expensive and probably as accurate, maybe more so, and would never need batteries.


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## gko

I have a Wixey when it first came out and it was dead on accurate. I saw a technical review where it was one of the most accurate out there at the time. Went to WC and tried three of them and they all rread the same down to .1 degree on various angles. Also compared it to a Starret and it was dead on so I bought it.. Not sure if after becoming popular precision and accuracy went down the drain. I'll see if I can go to WC and try that test again.


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## oldnovice

Considering the technology used in Wixey and the digital calipers there *should not* be an error!

The encoding method (sin/cos or quadrature) is one of the best when it is manufactured properly and the accuracy is actually amazing.

Back when I worked in laser interferometry our closest competitor to laser interferometry is the quadrature type of encoder manufactured by companies such as Heidenhain. The Heidenhain encoders also process the arc tangent to increases the accuracy to compete in very high accuracy markets.

Even the simplest laser interferometer can have accuracy of 1.2 nm, 0.047 μin.


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## RibsBrisket4me

Hey oldnovice!!! Show off!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!


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## wormil

I'd guess the problem is not the tech but quality control. When companies want to save money, skimping or skipping QC is the easiest way.


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## oldnovice

*Todd23* just telling like it is!

Most of the laser interferometers I worked with ended up on semiconductor handling and LCD screen manufacturing equipment to get the accuracy of step and repeat over large areas with a high degree of repeatability. I could name some companies but I am still under an agreement for another two years to keep my mouth shut.

Some laser interferometers are also used to calibrate high accuracy CNC and similar tooling. These are just as accurate but are more portable and have temperature compensation sensors. These compensating sensors are not needed in the semiconductor/LCD screen manufacturing as the environments are highly temperature and humidity controlled.


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## don1960

OK, I finally remembered to bring the Wixey into the shop to check it's accuracy.

Used a granite surface plate and a granite 90° square to see how it did at 0° and 90°. Zeroed on the plate and set it up against the side of the square and it's dead on at 90°

Then, figured to check some various angles so used a Magna-Sine and gage blocks to check it at a few different angles. All measurements were off .004" in 5" (5" magna-sine) I checked 10°, 20°, 30°, and 45°. All of them required an extra .004" in blocks to get the correct angle. That's .004 in 5.000" length. Pretty darn accurate.

That would mean if you were making a picture frame that the mitered corners were 5" wide, the cut would touch on one end and be off .004 on the other, at each corner. Good enough for me. 

I can't explain why it was dead on at 90°, but off at the other angles, unless the calibration for the gage is done at both extremes, with the middle angles falling where they may. I don't think that's the case, since each of the other angles were off the exact same (small) amount.

Bottom line, at least the one I have is as accurate as I'll ever need.


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## Fuzzy

Had a WIXEY … worked OK … for a while … suddenly, the display went nuts … showed all sorts of jibberish, but no numbers. Contacted WIXEY … "OUT of WARRANTY - SORRY" Bought a Tilt-box to replace it … couldn't have been more satisfied.

The price difference was minimal … the quality difference was huge … sometimes it pays to buy the beest.


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## 280305

I agree with Fuzzy. I have had my TiltBox for about five years. It always works great and is still on the original battery, even though it is left in my unheated shop all winter (in northern Mass).


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## wormil

CMT makes one at a price point between Tiltbox and Wixey, has an aluminum housing and very positive reviews on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/CMT-DAG-001-Digital-Angle-Gauge/dp/B004U6YHY0/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_5

Also found this Starrett 505P that's only $21.

http://www.amazon.com/Starrett-505P-7-Miter-Saw-Protractor/dp/B003CJSQ4S/ref=pd_sim_hi_1


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## Howie

I had to make sure the table was plum with the blade every time I wanted to do a cut by way of a square, it's now replaced with a Dewalt. No thank you, no more buying *
Have to tell you Blackie. I bought a new Dewalt 12" SCMS and it was off 90 by 1/2 degree out of the box.
Just because it's a name brand doesn't make it perfect. On the other hand I had a Ridgid 12" MS that was spot on.


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## jimbarstow

I've had a wixley for a couple years and has been dead on.


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## DJ3

Hey Don1960,
You stated off .004 at basically all angles except 0 and 90…
Does the Wixey give angles at + and -? in other words if you spin the meter will it read at 180 degrees from its original orientation? I am thinking you used a properly levelled and maintained surface plate so the zero plane would he the same regardless of orientation at zeroing…
Did that rotating the meter change the .004 the other direction (say from +.004 to -.004?).
I am unsure how the wixey works, but my last digital was zeroed then rotated 180 then zeroed again to find true perpendicular wihtout planar reference and just entered twice without rotating for planar reference…The readings were pretty darned accurate after that, however with planar reference one could not rotate the unit 180 degrees and measure.
Always curious about fun tools.


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## don1960

DJ3,

The surface plate was a 24×36" lab grade plate. Accurate to .0001" total across the entire surface. I don't know for sure if it was level, but it probably was. I can check that, but it didn't have any bearing on what I was trying to check at the time, as the Wixey self-calibrates to the reference surface for level.

As far as turning 180°, I didn't do that. I'll have to check and see how the Wixey I have reads in reference to what you're asking. I wasn't concerned for anything beyond 90° at the time.

I'll let you know when I get back home tonight.


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