# the future of "the tree" ?



## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

http://growingideas.com/

lots of things to think about re: trees.


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## TreeBones (May 21, 2007)

One small step for man, one giant leap for weyerhaeuser…


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

I visited the site and got through a couple of tours.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

they are "not just another" paper factory. 
They have put a lot of research into sustainability and understanding the properties of a tree to use this information in so many ways. Pretty fascinating.

The info on tree make-up best suited for building of homes etc. was fascinating, I thought.


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## Tangle (Jul 21, 2007)

I think WH is the company that has the plantings of forests along Inter-state 84 near Boardman, Oregon. They planted fast growing poplar trees for pulp wood. It was pretty deserty country but now they are putting out a lot of pulp wood.


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## CedarFreakCarl (Apr 21, 2007)

WH definitely has a vision for the future. (and a good one) As long as we keep the extreme environmental nuts out the process, we've got hope. I like to hug a tree, but for different reasons. This precious renewable resource has far reaching consequences and good forest management and practices are the key to longevity. Just my $0.02.


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## dennis (Aug 3, 2006)

I'm watching this country being decimated by rabid growth and unchecked consumerism and you want to point out a few nuts. I'm thinking a strong environmental mindset might just save humanity from its self.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

yup.. sounds like this company is really doing its bit to use all of what it "takes" from the land, which in fact what it had planted 30 years ago….


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## CedarFreakCarl (Apr 21, 2007)

Ok, let me clarify my somewhat general statement about environmental nuts. I actually don't think Dennis and I are that far from being on the same song page. The "nuts" I'm speaking of are the ones that say and lobby against cutting any timber anywhere any time. Under a previous administration (and Lord knows I know this isn't a political forum) but, under a previous administration, laws were passed that forbid any logging on public lands. While this sounds good in theory, the reality is that limbs break, pine straw falls, trees die etc. all adding to fuel to feed huge catastrophic forest fires. (Something like the ones that are burning even as we speak out in the midwest.) I'm not talking about "Urban Sprawl", which is another topic altogether.

My family has been in the tree farm business since the 1950's. In the process of growing trees, replanting is probably the most important aspect. Once we harvest a tract, we replant the next year. We don't clearcut and sell the property to a developer, we replant. Down here in this poor ass land around Columbia, SC, about the only tree that grows well is the lowly (as I heard it said on this website) pine tree. Primarily longleaf and loblolly pines. Left unchecked, like I said, limbs break, pinestraw falls trees die and they all add to the dry fuel on the forest floor. One lightning strike, one cigarette butt, one dumb kid playing with matches and you've got a disaster on your hands. If we don't cut the trees (and replant them), mother nature will in it's own way.

Urban Sprawl, that's another topic. As long as I breath the air the good Lord provides, I'll never sell my part of this family land. Instead, I'll grow pine trees and keep replanting over and over until I die. The selling and development of property for housing unchecked isn't in my vocabulary. Right now my family's land is surrounded by mini subdivisions and mobile homes. We have a constant battle with wildlife poachers and pinestraw thieves. (By the way at 3.50 and 4.00 a bale, pinestraw is worth more than the trees.) Urban sprawl has arrived. I've even entertained the idea of putting my property in a wildlife land trust to protect it from ever being developed. Our home place is like an island in the mass of money grubbing humanity that makes up a major portion of these United States. Like an island it shall stay unil I'm dead and gone. Besides, if you can't cut trees, there wouldn't be any LumberJocks or sawdust.

Alright, I've fallen off the soap box. I'm going to bed. I've got my asbestos underwear on, so flame away. j/k. Remember, this is just my opinion, that's what makes this a truly great country as the founders intended. After all, we've all got the wood fetish, eh?


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## dennis (Aug 3, 2006)

I'll sing with ya Carl.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

well said.
I'm a treehugger and proud of it-as I heard said once, "I'm a "green" person-not a strong, forest green,.. just a light mint green"... I am not a fanatic. 
I drive a truck; I use hydro to run the pumps for my pond and for my pool (both luxuries); I have a big house that takes a lot of fuel to heat; and I create things that aren't always useful. But, I do multi-tasking with my truck and rarely drive to town for a single purpose; I don't own an air conditioner and I only use my electric clothes dryer in the rain and in winter; we only heat a few rooms in our house; and I enjoy crafts and art….

It makes my blood boil to watch people vacation in the "natural" environments of woods and lakes and then destroy the very thing that they go to enjoy. 
I hate the fact that our farm lands are being eaten up by city folk building their mansions in rural areas, with the cities "crawling" (or running) further and further into the country - especially when we have what is probably the richest farm land soil in the country. 
I hate watching people cut trees down because they are in their way and not replace them in some way or another. 
I hate hearing about clear-cutting practices, hidden by an acre of trees that line the roads.

cut a tree; plant two trees; if it isn't at risk - leave it where it is, especially if it is "old growth".  Respect Mother Nature; take care of Mother Nature; and remember that we are guests here on this planet, not the owners.

Now.. what is pinestraw?


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## Tangle (Jul 21, 2007)

I have to admit to being of the same mind set as Carl and Dennis. Dennis and I both are observing areas of Idaho where unchecked development is rampant. When I go to "town" it is to the Treasure Valley. Dennis lives in the Magic Valley to the east about 120 miles. Both these areas are seeing unprecedented growth. I have spent most of my life in agriculture. The " pseudo ' enviromentalists have been atacking the ranchers on public lands viciously for the last several years.
In the Boise-Nampa-Caldwell area we are watching good farm land put under housing and development. It's as if no one seems to understand that we have to eat. We could be building houses on the scab rock of the foothills that won't grow anything but a little grass and sagebrush but everytime a developer trys to use his head and put in a development there, out come the environmentalists. They don't seem to care that we are loosing farmland at a tremendous rate and it can't be replaced. Wake up, world, we have to eat.
I've ground my teeth off at the land use laws here in Oregon. They were originally put in place to prevent what I see happening in the Treasure Valley. I won't go through all the parts and pieces of that land use law, but, I think it just may have been well intentioned. The problem lies with the administration of these laws. It seems there is one set of rules for the west side of the state, especially the Willamette Valley and another set of rules for the east side. Because the majority of the population lives in the Portland/Willamette Valley area they politically control the state. Hence lots of development in that area on real high value farm land and a screaming fit if anyone wants to do anything on this side of the state. 
When we first moved to Oregon in 1990, there was a steady stream of log trucks past our house starting at about 1:00 AM. By the time we sold out in Northeast Oregon we never saw a log truck unless it was coming from private forest land. About an 80% decrease.
I lived in Cody Wyoming when Yellowstone burned. Someone there made the comment that,"For the first 30 days they threw policy at the fire, for the second 30 days they threw money at the fire and then the Good Lord looked at it and decided they were a bunch of fools and put it out with a snow storm." 
Some where, common sense has to take over or we are headed down the same road as the Roman Empire. I believe that history shows that one of the contributing factors to the downfall was the fact that they were importing all their food and raw materials. Like Will Rogers said,"Common Sense ain't so common anymore".
I have appaluded the Wilderness Bill and enjoyed working in the wilderness areas of the west. I have seen a lot of the untouched areas surrounding Yellowstone and some in Colorado and Utah as well. They are absolutely wonderful places. Now there an attempts to add areas of the west that are not wilderness to this system. This is another ploy being used to limit or eliminate grazing from public lands. Another good idea perverted for selfish reasons. The reason that land is owned by the BLM is that no one wanted it.
In closing I would like to add; I consider myself an environmentalist. I have worked to make agriculture sustainable and functional. I think the difference is that people like myself live with the environment and must become a part of it. We see it through different eyes. Let's work together to find solutions and promote sustainable forestry and agriculture. If we don't, I forsee a bleak future.
Tom


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## CedarFreakCarl (Apr 21, 2007)

Debbie & Dennis…..sorry for the long winded banter. Had an adult beverage or two last night and the tongue tends to loosen. Anyhow, I should mention that most of our tracts are separated by natural buffer areas and along creeks. We never cut these. Also, as far as old growth tracts, those are almost nonexistent in this area of the country. The southeastern part of the United States was, when it was first discovered was one big pine forest, primarily the longleaf pine. it stretched from Virginia down to around Florida and all the way over to the Mississippi River. This old growth longleaf pine was in some cases 150-175 feet high and could live to 300 to 400 years old. It grew agonizingly slow, tall and straight. When we were under English rule, they refered to the longleaf pine as "The Kings Pine" as they used it for ship masts of the day. Besides lumber, it's a very "sappy" and can be cut in a manner as to drain the sap. That was then distilled into turpentine. Sadly, by 1900, most longleaf pine had been cut out of existence. The ones that do remain are few and far between. Most of what you see these days in the form furniture and flooring and is sawed from old barn and warehouse timbers. Reclaimed pine is also found in the bottoms of lakes, rivers and even Boston Harbor from where they were transported by water by floating the logs. That's a really big business these days. There have been literally millions of board feet recovered from under water. There's plenty of info on the internet that can be googled.

Ah….pine straw. That's just the longleaf pine needle. It's used for mulching and landscaping. It's a big business down here, like I said worth more than the timber. in 14"x14"x28" bales, it goes for anywhere from $3.50-$8.00 a bale. Lots of it is shipped up north as the longleaf doesn't grow up that way. It falls twice a year in August and December or so. Here's a link with some more info on it: http://www.naturalresources.msstate.edu/resources/pdfs/pinestraw.pdf

Also, here's a few pictures of pine straw and heart pine:









Here's some freshly fallen staw, took this picture this morning.








Couldn't resist posting this one, a pine needle cluster caught in the crepe myrtle bush.








Here's the end of a 1×4 which displays the denseness of this wood. There's somewhere around 100 years of board there.

This is probably more than you asked for, but it's a subject dear to my heart. Besides, mostly it's considered as a cheaper alternative to hardwoods. Just google heart pine and I think you'll find out it ain't cheap. I just wanted to get some info onto LumberJocks about this wonderful wood. God Bless.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

As I watch SW Ontario become one giant city, and the rich farmland disappear, I give thanks for the golf courses that are being developed as quickly as the buildings-one day, when we have taken away all of the farmland (thinking that importing our food is the way to go) we will discover that we can no longer transport food and need to grow our own. The only place left to grow food will be the golf courses.

One of my first real eye-openers as to the state of our "common sense" was when watching a tv show about the dilemma of water shortage in your "desert states". The city folk (of Las Vegas) were enraged at the selfishness of short-sightedness of the farmers. They were disgusted with the farmers thinking that they were more important than anyone else. According to them (an actual audio tape was played) stating that the casinos were equally important because they needed their fountains for the tourism effect.

Ah yes…. water to drink and to irrigate crops vs. fountains at a casino. I see their point. Farmland definitely is not more important. We don't need water for our food produce.. Sheesh.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

ah the fallen needles..

interesting article. 
I was wondering about the negative affect on the trees themselves, with the removal of the fallen needles, but I see that it is stated to NOT remove the needles every year without fertilizing (to replace the nutrients being removed).


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## CedarFreakCarl (Apr 21, 2007)

Debbie:
That's right, if the needles are continually harvested year after year, it denies the tree of it's "litter layer" which is mostly decomposed pinestraw mulch. That's what nurtures and naturally fertilizes the tree. We don't harvest the same areas in consecutive years. One option if you do harvest every year as you stated, is to fertilize. However, this can be a ticklish affair as too much fertilizer will overload the tree with pine needles and cause limbs to break and the smaller trees to bend over and become deformed. Putting the right amount requires soil sample analyzation and the proper mix of fertilizer. Even so, I had one forester tell me to figure out how much to put out and then cut that amount in half. Erring on the side of caution is at a premium as if you put too much you've probably almost totally ruined the tract.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

natural is the preference, anyway… work WITH Mother Nature ….


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## TreeBones (May 21, 2007)

Lots of good comments and information. We all need to embrace Sustainable Resource Management


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## Tangle (Jul 21, 2007)

Amen to SRM


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