# 16 year old girl solo sailing around the world! Part Duex.



## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

Abby Sunderland the 16-year-old girl who is solo sailing around the globe has recently made it around Cape Horn. Part one of that story (Lumberjock's thread). As the page grew longer and longer it became time consuming to load so the following is the beginning of *Part Two*.

Abby Sunderland Home
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"So here I am now on my way. The winds have been unusually light but have now picked up to a nice 15 knots with Wild Eyes around 7.5 knots headed almost directly east. I am waiting for the wind to shift to the NW so I can head more north."










"I've been sailing along with a fleet of fishing boats since this morning. It was a little scary at first having fifteen big boats just a few miles away. They had all been going along in a pretty strait line following each other but now they've stopped and I just passed them. It was pretty cool to be able to actually see other boats and know there were other people so close. I felt a little like sailing over and saying 'Hi', but decided since they were fishing it wouldn't be the best idea."

Read more


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## Jimthecarver (Jan 14, 2008)

That girl has more guts than me to do somthing like this. 
YOU GO GIRL!


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

I very much agree* Jim*, she is something 

There is also another young gal from Australia that *Hooky* pointed out to me attempting the same at the moment. Jessica Watson


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## hooky (Apr 25, 2009)

hi guys

jessica doesnt have far to go now she is back in australian waters

Hooky


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

Abby has become the youngest person to have sailed around Cape Horn solo!
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"Another slow day today with pouring rain and so foggy that I could barely see the bow of the boat this morning. It did clear up a little bit later on and the wind picked up a little but not much. I've had around 10 knots for most of the day. Not that great, but it's coming out of the NW, pretty much ideal for heading east". More..

Where is *Abby* now?


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

*"I have some big news today. It's not necessarily good news, but the way I look at it, it's not bad either. I am going to be pulling into Cape Town for repairs thus ending my non-stop attempt. My whole team and I have been discussing whether or not I need to stop ever since my main auto pilot died. It's one thing to sail across an ocean with one well-working auto pilot, it's another to keep going with one that is not at all reliable. "*-Abby

More..


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

YIKES!!!

What a Young Lady!!

I just had a look at all I could. Apparently she will have to go into Cape Town South Africa due to her faulty Auto Pilot. BUT!! She WILL continue her journey there after, and still set a World Record. The only difference being the word "Unassisted" would be removed. (CAUTION on "Unassisted" please. It's there from my memory and MIGHT NOT be the EXACT word).

As of Apprx. 8:30 this evening she was in the MIDDLE of the Southwest ATLANTIC OCEAN, 1,150 Miles from Cape Town. Winds were 40 to 50 Knots and Sea Waves of 15 to 20 Feet. That's a 2 Storey Building in Height!!

(Her words follow. Summerized & NOT EXACT) She's more concerned about getting closer to shore, that troubles her for a number of reasons. She's much more comfortable in the MIDDLE of the ATLANTIC OCEAN!!!

My Hat is certainly off to this CONFIDENT and I hope SUCCESSFULL 16 Year Old Young Lady!!

Thanks for Posting this Abbott.

Rick


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

My pleasure *Richard*, she is quite the young lady.


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

*Update from home.*

"Her approach to Cape Town has been pretty steady over the past few days so much so that we were afraid that she would arrive before her dad and team member Scott Lurie touch down tomorrow at noon South Africa time. Fortunately, she looks to be right on course for a 3:00pm arrival - just before the next cold front really hits hard. She has a backup plan to head into Hout Bay if the conditions are too rough but so far the plan is to head to Table Bay/Cape Town at the V&A Waterfront Marina."

Read more..


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## reggiek (Jun 12, 2009)

What a brave young lady. I have soloed on long trips under sail…and it is alot of work….you don't have anyone to spell you but the autopilot (if you have one - I had a manual autopilot (bungy cords that held the tiller). The hard part is those sails weigh alot…and with the wind pressure during gusts or during storms…every manuever is hard work…you have to work smart…like to reef you have to head into the wind and luff….prepare the main halyard and keep the boom from dropping on your head or knocking you overboard…all this as you reduce sail area. Depending on whether you have a mechanical assist on the boom to take up sail slack…or whether you have to tie it to the boom…..The record books don't mention all the hardships encountered…but what an adventure for her. My longest trip was too Hawaii from San Francisco solo….and I wasn't as young as her. Thanks for keeping us up to date Abbott.


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

Thanks a bunch for that post *Reggiek!* I know nothing about sailing other then it takes some huge gonads for a young person to sail long distances over open ocean not to mention around the globe solo. I would walk with respect near this young lady.


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## reggiek (Jun 12, 2009)

It takes a lot of courage for anyone to single hand. Being alone so long is not something everyone wants to do….and you have only yourself to keep the boat afloat and safe….A small mistake at sea in this manner is fatal…you can fall overboard, suffer equipment failures and meet many external dangers at sea (storms, floating debris, large ships that do not see you…etc…etc). The rewards are great though…I have sailed on various craft since I was old enough to stand on a deck…

Also, just wanted to mention that this is related to woodworking as some of the best woodworkers I know are folks that build and maintain wooden ships….I helped a guy refit an old Choy Lee Lion (all wooden ship)...if was extremely gratifying to see this ship rescued from abuse and neglect….then to sail on her for several voyages was a tremendous reward.


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

An update from Cape Town South Africa:









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"Work is progressing nicely in Cape Town. A diver inspected Wild Eyes' hull today and found a large clump of seaweed on the prop. Everyone hoping that that is the cause of the engine trouble on Abby's arrival as the engine runs fine out of gear.

Sorry it's been so long since I've written. Its been pretty busy here. We've finished a lot of the work on Wild Eyes and things are moving along nicely. We have found a few more problems, but nothing too big, so we should be able to keep on schedule".

More..


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## hooky (Apr 25, 2009)

jessica watson made it home safe and well yesterday

my hat goes of to these brave people

Hooky


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

Yes, I saw that *Hooky* and it looked like she received a wonderful and hard earned welcome home. That was quite the feat! Good for her!!!


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

That's some amazing gal


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## Dyidawg (Feb 24, 2010)

Local town girl does good!


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

"Things have been going well since my last blog. I've had some lighter wind most of today but it's picked up some now. I've got about 30 knots and am moving along very nicely. My gear has all held up well so far - a few small auto pilot problems and a pretty small leak in the water ballast are all I've had to deal with recently. "

Read more..


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## hooky (Apr 25, 2009)

thanks for the update abbott I have been meaning to checkup on her blog

going up a mast in the dark with 30 knot winds sounds not much fun to me

Hooky


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

It sounds like Abby is moving right along but some rough seas may lie ahead.

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*"I'm almost half way across the Indian Ocean! It really doesn't feel like it. I keep looking at my charts and there never seems to be a big difference from the last time I checked, but I am ticking off the miles slowly but surely. The weather looks like it could pick up a lot in the next few days. I could have winds up to 60 knots, so I'm getting things all tied down and ready for some big winds"*
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Read more..


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

"The last few days have pretty busy out here. I've been in some rough weather for awhile with winds steady at 40-45 knots with higher gusts. With that front passing, the conditions were lighter today. It was a nice day today with some lighter winds which gave me a chance to patch everything up. Wild Eyes was great through everything but after a day with over 50 knots at times, I had quite a bit of work to do."

More..


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

Yes, it's pretty spooky, she may be lost at sea. Her water activated beacon wasn't sending so the boat may still be upright. Let's hope it is just an equipment failure.

More information here..

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"We were referred to Australian Search & Rescue and while we were on the phone with them another signal came in from her handheld PLB (Personal Locator Beacon). Her water-activated EPIRB has not been activated so we are hopeful that the boat is still upright." *


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

*"Media report that Abby Sunderland, 16, set off both her EPIRB's shortly after losing sat phone contact with her home team in very rough seas early morning today.

Abby reportedly suffered multiple knockdowns in 45 knot winds and very high waves on the Indian Ocean. LATimes report that one of the emergency beacons is apparently attached to a survival suit and it's unclear at this point if Abby is still on her boat or in a liferaft. Local coast guard is reportedly en route to her last reported position. "*

Ocean Explorers Web story


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## hooky (Apr 25, 2009)

good to here that she has been spotted alive and well

but with no motor or mast

will be rescued in about 20 hours so she just has to sit tight

Gotto love the brave west ozzie volunteers, who went up with a chartered quantas passenger plane, to act as spotters

and the people who chartered and flew the plane
Hooky


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

*Teen sailor Abby Sunderland in 'good spirits' awaiting rescue in Indian Ocean*

"The mother of 16-year-old Abby Sunderland says a plane that spotted her daughter's sailboat in the Indian ocean indicates that the vessel was likely rolled by a rogue wave, but that the teen appears to be in "good spirits."

Marianne Sunderland, of Thousand Oaks, Calif., tells CNN this morning that she spoke with the pilot of an Australian plane that found Abby adrift about 2,000 miles southwest of Australia on her intended round-the-world sailing voyage.

The pilot also was able to speak to Abby by radio, even though her satellite link to her parents in California had been broken. She had already activated emergency location beacons.

A French ship is en route to the area and likely will reach Abby within 24 hours, the Associated Press reports.

Abby's mother says the pilot told her the sailboat is upright but that the "rigging is all down-probably rolled by a rogue wave."

"She was fine," Sunderland said, adding that Abby had food and water. "She is running her heater and keeping warm, "she told CNN. "She seems to be in good spirits."

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Wonderful news!


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

*Rescued U.S. Teen Sailor Wants Second Attempt at Solo Record*

"American teenager Abby Sunderland vowed Saturday that she would attempt to sail solo round the world again, after her first try at the record was thwarted when she became stranded for two nights in rough Indian Ocean seas.

Sunderland was plucked from her damaged yacht by a French fishing vessel on Saturday, 2000 nautical miles from the western coast of Australia.

Her 40-foot sailboat Wild Eyes remains adrift.

The 16-year-old sailor was waiting to be evacuated since Friday, when Australian rescuers spotted her from the air and made radio contact.

"It's been a little bit crazy these past few days. Everything's happened pretty fast but I was really lucky that there was a boat that could come and get me where I was," Sunderland said, according to Australian broadcaster ABC.

"When stuff is going on out there you can't really get too scared about it-I mean it doesn't really do any good."

When asked if she would sail again, she said: "I'm definitely going to sail around the world again, or at least give it another try.

"I don't know when I'll get another chance to do it.

"I've wanted to sail around the world for years and I definitely want to do it."

An Australian Maritime Safety Authority said Sunderland was likely to be transferred to one of two other ships steaming for the rescue site.

"Arrangements to land Ms Sunderland will now be negotiated with the three ships that have responded to the distress situation. One ship is bound for Australia and the other would likely return to its home port at La Reunion,'' the spokeswoman said.

From the U.S., Sunderland's parents responded to a wave of criticism for letting her attempt her treacherous solo round-the-world journey-saying the family were "adventurers, not accountants."

Sunderland left Los Angeles on Jan. 23 in the hope of becoming the youngest person to circumnavigate the globe solo, attempting to better Australian Jessica Watson.

But she came to grief when her mast snapped and yacht rolled in atrocious weather conditions on Thursday."


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Kid seems to be more mature and capable than most adults.


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

Well I don't think her parents are pimps and I would like to see her have a chance to try again. I think she is one heck of a solid young lady and I couldn't care less about the price of the rescue attempt.

Go Abby and the Sundeland family!


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## RedShirt013 (May 17, 2008)

I wonder if it's the attempt to be the YOUNGEST lady to sail around the world that made her sail in such bad time of the year. If the family has sailing in their blood they should've get her to do it after winter. I have to agree with Rob, while Abby maybe just adventurous, her whole family have much to gain from this trip, and really they should have advised against her (as per American Sailing Associaion's advice) trying this stunt, rather than giving Abby all the resource to put her own life at risk by forcing an early trip.

I'm not doubting Abby's abilities because of her age, but she deserved proper counceling when a youth's ambition eclipse her rationality, and her family didn't give that. Refusing to bear the rescue cost only highlights her parents' irresponsibility and cast doubt onto their true intention.

I thought there were insurance for these things too. Perhaps nobody was willing to insure this adventure?


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

*Refusing to bear the rescue cost only highlights her parents' irresponsibility and cast doubt onto their true intention.*

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I think that statement is quite a stretch there. I wonder how many people on this forum if any could pay a $300,000 bill. Does that cast doubt on their veracity? Personally I would say "thanks" and that would be that unless they wanted to seize my truck and tools ~shrug~ if they want my stuff that bad they can have it.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Not much difference than all the hikers that are plucked out of the Cascades and off Mt. Rainier every year, except this one is international.


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## RedShirt013 (May 17, 2008)

Not wanting to foot the $300k bill is understandable, but wrong. This is part of the cost of taking the risk, so if they cannot afford it, don't take the risk. Even though I can gun my cheap car to 180 km/h on a highway to get a thrill (is that adventureous?), I don't because even though I can afford a traffic ticket, I can't afford to crash my car, I can't afford to paralyze myself, and pay any associated hospital bill. Do I want to do it? Of course! But I do not have the capital to do it. I could mitigate the risk however, if I head to Utah and do it on the salt flat and make sure I have insurance beforehand.

For a more related analogy, that's like choosing not to buy a Sawstop, then end up cutting a finger off. Most LJ on this board would just foot their own medical bill if they cut their finger off on a unisaw knowing that not buying a sawstop was their choice (and not Ryobi's fault).

Did the Australians shove their assistence down the Sunderlands' throat? Likely not. If the Aussies are willing to consider their help as a gift, that's fine; but if they need to recoup the cost, the Suntherlands is every bit responsible for paying the bill.

On the other hand, it should be easy to get $300k after a few TV appearances, publishing a book, additional blog visits, making a reality show, etc.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Hey Abbot,

Suppose Abby was trying to be the youngest girl to fly a home built airplane across country, and she happened to crash into your house. She gets out safely, but your house burns to the ground. Your insurance company cites a technicality in your policy that lets them off the hook. Are you still going to have the same carefree attitude when you are out the cost of a house because of her adventure?


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

I was going to go hiking this weekend but I better save up the cost for a rescue first just in case something goes awry. /sarcasm off

*Redshirt*, I don't think the Sunderlands did anything wrong, I think the girl did real good and I wouldn't pay that 300K either. I also wouldn't own a Sawstop. However I have done about 150 mph on a public road in a 1969 Roadrunner with a home built 440 and 353s without insurance.

*Charlie* Let's say Abby was the youngest alien to ever visit earth and she happened to crash her flying saucer into my house…


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Well, if her planet didn't want to pay for the damage, they shouldn't have let her make the trip.


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

the girl needs to understand there is responsibility for doing the sailing trip in the wrong time of year..but regardless of the time of year…if she is freely doing this trip with no backing , then her and her family should be responsible for a rescue, real simple..even those who climb McKinley now have to pay a fee just in case a rescue is needed..im all for having a adventurous spirit, but i don't think somebody else should be forced to pay a rescue bill..but if the Australians are going to offer this as a gift then that is one thing…but if not..the girls family is responsible…she is a minor and should be taught what is right and what is wrong…teaching out young people to not be responsible for there acts is just plain wrong.


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

tried to post this again…so i had to type something…..something…


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

She already seems to be more responsible then many adults.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Abbott-"She already seems to be more responsible then[SIC] many adults."

So was the first USA trained monkey that went into outer space back in the early sixties. Task training is NOT the same as responsibility. Responsibility implies a level of sound judgment for ones' actions. The girl was from a rich family as evidenced by her parents financing her brother's earlier around-the-world sailing adventure and just because they have money to spend doesn't mean that any country's taxpayers should bail them out for their frivolous entertainment escapades gone amiss.


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

Get real * Mike* in no way was her trip frivolous. Abby did real well and has proven her maturity and level of responsibility. The kid is a go getter and some of you guys should stop your bitching and get out of her way!


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

So Abbott, you will buy me a yacht or maybe a Lamborghini so that I can learn to race on land and sea, yes?

The reality is that these millionaires "feel" poor because their wealth is "only" in the low single millions while they try to one-up their "rich" neighbors whose wealth is in the 100s of millions. Me thinks my first WW project should be the world's smallest violin, but I digress…

And "getting real" for the rest of us is dreaming of, yet not being able to afford a Sawstop TS. Geez, I broke the budget stepping into a low end cabinet TS (Grizzly 1023RLW), just 1/3 the price of the Sawstop. It should be here in a couple of weeks.

I feel lucky to have purchased the Grizzly! Never mind that my truck was built in 1993 and the car & bike in 1997. And indeed, I "feel frivolous" for having one more vehicle than drivers in the family. So when I say that this girl's parents are frivolous in buying and financing BOTH of their children their own personal yachts and yachting world tours I truly mean it, frivolous. These parents should pony up for the rescue.

FYI, here in Texas when you get caught crossing a low-water barrier and get stranded, you are required by law to pay for ALL rescue costs plus other penalties assessed. This sailing "record attempt" and resulting rescue should be no different.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

I am very relieved to know the young lady is safe and on her way home. In the original post of this event at http://lumberjocks.com/topics/14623 I expressed my views and opinion that that I felt about this undertaking and I endured a lot of FLAK for my views which distressed me somewhat. Read my responses on the original post to see what was said.
I the end Abbott and I did not end up being enemies, we had the common sense to accept each other's views and "get along", which we have indeed, exchanging nice PM's.
All I really have to add to this posting is: *I rest my case*


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

Some people are adventures and some people are accountants. Abby did a wonderful thing that took plenty of guts and perseverance. I would be proud to call her "friend" and I look forward to her next attempt.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Yeah, an adventurer is someone who wants to gamble with the accountant's money.

BTW, I have all the admiration in the world for Abby's courage and determination.


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

It's all about the money to you guys, what a sad state of being that must be


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Abbott: 
For me it's not the money, its about taking unnecessary risks with a human life. That's why I do not remove any of the safety features of the tools I use. Being sorry for the loss of an arm or a whole life after flaunting danger is not a good learning experience.
I can accept that taking unnecessary risks is OK with some people and not OK with others, that's the way the world is. Some people are adventurous, some are cautious.
Again, I am so glad that this venture has finished with a safe ending, the lady did not fail her quest but was just overpowered by the forces of nature which are unpredictable.


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

Got ya *Roger*. I have been a risk taker my entire life and the only safety feature I have on most of tools is myself. Except my miter box and grinders, I like the guard on them. Most often the guard is the first thing to go when I purchase a new tool. I also like fast cars and riding motorcycles and I slipped and fell down a glacier once…OMG what a head over heels ride that was for about 300 yards!!! It beat the hell out of me but I was able to climb down a cliff afterward (barely) and with some help make it home.

I admire Abby Sunderland for what she did and can only imagine the cajones it takes for a kid to attempt that! I think she is something special and I'm sure as hell not going to let a few guys on a message board change the fact that IMO that girl kicks ass.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

*Abbott*:
I know how you feel, I felt much the same way as you a long time ago. It was the Skydiving accident that a workmate died from that really shook me up and made me realize how precious life was and how it decimated the guys family.
If you are adventurous I don't think you acknowledge the possible consequences, that is until disaster strikes. Although you cannot control fate, you choose whether you tempt it or not.
I don't think anyone denies that the young lady had confidence and guts to follow her adventure, and I hope she has learned from it.
Have a nice day


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I guess my perspective comes from a different place.

I know all about self-centered behavior. I was a drunk for a lot of years. You go through life doing what you want to do, telling yourself and others that it's your life and your business. The trouble is that our lives don't exist in a vacuum. Other people are usually affected by the choices we make. Whether we are talking about wasting government money on a rescue, or some poor rescuer losing his life trying to save hers, there are many people who could be affected. It's like the ripples from a pebble thrown into a pond.

Hearing how the parents responded to the cost of the rescue just made it seem like they really had no concern for the consequences of their own and their daughter's behavior, and how that just might infringe on other people's rights and happiness. That's what bothers me.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

If they have the money to finance her and that boat, they can pay for the rescue.


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## JJohnston (May 22, 2009)

If the Aussies are serious, they just have to impound the boat once it's towed in. They'll pay, one way or another.


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## 747DRVR (Mar 18, 2009)

I just read that she is the second of 7 children.Her older brother has already made the trip.The aussies better be prepared to make 5 more rescues


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

It doesn't matter if you get it or not. Abby Sunderland has earned an admirable spot in the hearts of many. The fact that a bunch of self-righteous middle aged men find some type of joy out of trying to pick on a teenage girl and her parents would likely amuse her, I know it does me.

Here is what the Australian Government is saying about it:

*"LETTER FROM THE AUSTRALIAN SEARCH & RESCUE

Can you put a message on your blog informing your readers that the Australian government has not requested any recovery cost for Abby's search and recovery. In fact the Govt here has been in the media and stated that fact several times. I doubt this got coverage in the US.

Australia like the US have always responded to requests for help and have provided whatever resources are required. At no stage have we asked for cost recovery. Likewise domestic search and rescue have never requested payment for services. If a person wishes to make a contribution to the costs then that is their call. It is not expected or asked for".*

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Now at least some of you guys can chose to stop your ignorance.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

algale, You make a good argument. Sailing around the world certainly isn't the feat it was 50 years ago.


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

*Al * there is no way you are as amused as I am, Abigail did good and all of your self-righteousness cannot take that away from her which I find wonderfully amusing. Guys like you should just shut up and get out of girls like hers way.

*Top* sailing a 40' boat around the world solo is still plenty tough, you and Al should go give it a try (duo) and then see if you feel the same way. Al can tell you all about how to do everything you do in the correct manner for the entire trip


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

I hate the ocean. I get seasick :-(


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)




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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Update - first human embryo prepares for record-setting solo circumnavigation.

OK - slight exaggeration 

http://www.smh.com.au/world/court-will-decide-if-sailor-14-is-too-young-20100616-ygkh.html


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## jbertelson (Sep 26, 2009)

*All*
The following is some idle commentary, just some random thoughts about risk to children and parenting. Each parent to some extent makes their own decisions, although there are some limits, because you can end up in prison for neglect. I am not into judging people for anything, until it affects the welfare of others….................

It is interesting, I could not so much as trim a toe nail on a minor without parent's permission. In other words parents are responsible for a minor's welfare.

But somehow, parents find it reasonable to allow a 13 year old to climb Mt. Everest (last time I heard, there was a 20% chance of death doing that). Some of the finest mountain climbers with the best of equipment have died on that mountain. Everest is an equal opportunity killer. It is not about training and preparation. Helicopters can't fly that high. Bodies are left near the summit because people cannot get themselves, and the body down at the same time. I think that is negligence as a parent. Almost doing a coin flip on a child's life, for the purposes of fame and fortune. A 13 year old cannot make an informed choice. They really don't understand death. I am going to go out on a limb and call this reprehensible. I think this is parental neglect. What if that 13 year old had died. What would have been the international news on that one?

Even our little old Mt. McKinley at 20000 feet kills many people each year. Up here the weather compounds the risk. And the latitude makes the air pressure at its summit lower than Mt. Everest, meaning altitude sickness it very possible.

What about allowing a 16 year old to sail around the world? I am guessing it is much safer than climbing Mt. Everest. 16 seems much more mature than 13, but still, she is a minor. There are risks from pirates, weather, etc.

One might make the case, that it is a little like down hill skiing or football. There is some risk, but it is probably manageable. I think this comes down to a whole pile of risk assessments, and judgement regarding preparation. You don't let an adult go down the steepest ski hill without training. In other words, training and equipment in down hill skiing will minimize risk, and the residual risk is thought to be acceptable.

I don't know enough about sailing to judge the parents on this one. Probably the risk of a teenager driving a car is substantial. Do all of you with young drivers do your best to train them, and provide them with good equipment? I would think that Abby's journey could be made reasonably safe with proper training, equipment, and support. I don't know if the risk for Abby was lowered to an acceptable level or not, but it would be rational to think it could be. But there is a limit to lowering the risk on Everest, helicopters do not function up there, etc.

I am writing this mostly just to get people to think about these things. Everything we do, and allow our children to do involves judgement and risk. But there are some limits to risk, and a general consensus about parental responsibilities.

Even have to think about these things when we bring children into the shop. I guess that is where this post has relevance to woodworking.

Have a good day, 49 degrees here in Anchorage at 0800 hr.

Alaska Jim


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## JJohnston (May 22, 2009)

"And the latitude makes the air pressure at its summit lower than Mt. Everest, meaning altitude sickness is very possible."

In all seriousness, I'm trying to figure out why that would be so, and I'm coming up empty. This effect would not just have to exist; it would have to be strong enough to counteract the fact that McKinley's summit is some 9000' lower than Everest's.


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## jbertelson (Sep 26, 2009)

*JJohnston*
This surprised me as well, just quoting what I read, in Wikipedia, and of course, you don't know the credentials of who wrote it.

I don't think it is terribly important to the risks at McKinley, because weather trumps everything else. I will look a little further and see if I can corroborate it. I had to dash off to work, where I am now.

Jim


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

JJohnston,

This document explains that colder temperatures can lower the barometric pressure at a given altitude. I looked at this pretty quickly. I think that it is saying that there is indeed a difference, and the lowest possible pressure on McKinley could be lower than the highest possible pressure on Everest. But most of the time the pressure is still lower on Everest.

Not that anyone is really making these measurements on Everest.


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

Abby is a go getter from an adventurous family. Her mother and father have obviously raised an exceptional child and have plenty of confidence in her abilities. The family has plenty of sailing experience and knows what she is capable of especially when compared to some Internet hecklers. Abby is fortunate and proud to have such a solid family behind her.


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## jbertelson (Sep 26, 2009)

Here is the link to the data I used. It is under the 'Notable Features' paragraph. Another thing people don't realize `is its vertical rise, which is 18000 feet, making its appearance quite striking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_McKinley

If you are talking about vertical rise, I think one of the Hawaiian Islands, I think the big island, has the largest rise of any mountain, if you don't mind being under water for most of the trip….........(-:

I'll keep looking for more data….......as work allows…..........

Jim


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## jbertelson (Sep 26, 2009)

*Abbott*
I agree with your last statement, since the facts you stated have been well publicized. That's why I didn't have any opinion, mostly because I don't know that much about sailing. She may have had a higher risk from dying in automobile crash than from her trip over the same period of time. People forget that there are just significant risks to being alive.

I think I recall statements about the first Gulf War that the troops were safer there than in the states, because the hazards of driving, and other accidental deaths, were higher than the death rates during that war.

Talking about risks in the shop, I don't think a toddler could walk in my shop without significant risk even if I was there. There are an amazing number of risks in a typical woodworkers shop for small children. However, a 12 year old and select younger children could undoubtedly work safely in a shop with certain tools under supervision.

Risk analysis….........is risky…........(-;

Meaning difficult to do and fraught with possibilities for error.

Jim


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## JJohnston (May 22, 2009)

Well, the pressure vs. latitude thing is complicated and counterintuitive, but then what isn't?


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## jbertelson (Sep 26, 2009)

*Chuck*
Looks like I stumbled across a topic of controversy, when I read that. I was going to research it, just because I was having difficulties understanding it. The earth is not perfectly round, and I was thinking that might be the reason. Think I will do a little investigation. That link includes what I believe are tables of computed pressure as a function of temperature, which does not support his side of it.

I have no opinion, because I never heard of the phenomenon before this morning.

I'll go looking to see if there are other sources of disinformation to peruse…............(-:

The internet is really a mixed bag when it comes to credibility and data integrity.

Jim


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

There is a higher risk of death in our largest cites than in Iraq or Afganastan for our troops.

They told how many kids died playing compared to now in a high schooll football injury report. I don't remember the exact numnbers, but I was amazed so many kids died in the game.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

*Jim - *

I had never heard about this pressure - latitude thing either. You are right, there are all sorts of pieces of (dis)information spread about.

Speaking of surprising mountains, I live near the Massachusetts - New Hampshire border. The crazy weather on NH's Mt Washington is pretty well known here, but maybe not in other areas. Check out Wikipedia or the official site http://www.mountwashington.org/.


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## jbertelson (Sep 26, 2009)

*Chuck*
Actually, I had heard about Mt. Washington's weather, a number times, but I cannot remember why or where. I believe I saw a TV special a number of years ago.

*Topamax*
Accidents, on the highway and elsewhere, are just accepted. Every death in a far off place, especially if the observer has a somewhat …......er…...........intense political posture, are considered evidence of grand conspiracies.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Hey Jim - 
Just a side note, but the 13 year old that climbed Everest did it WITH his parents…which I see differently than buying little 'Paris Hilton' an Autopiloted Yacht to sit in for months and twitter how bored they are and their current weather and location, while anticipating the offers that daddy got to make it a reality show.

Now had it been a recreation of a more historic voyage, like recreating the Viking atlantic crossing, or the Kon tiki Ra expidition in a grass/reed boat then I begin to understand that there is more of a challenge than just boredom and how long the solar panels would keep my laptop charged.

The exploits of the uber wealthy just don't impress me much. Just as the aviation feats of Steve Fossett were ho-hum. "lets drift around the world in a helium baloon" or go Solo in a carbon fibre jet from kansas.

This was hatched by parents looking for another buck and some notoriety not that the kid was in any way some gifted sailor nor had a special drive to pursue this record.


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## jbertelson (Sep 26, 2009)

*Dave*
Re Abby, I really don't know enough about the family to comment, but I understand your message. But I still stand by the unacceptable risk issue on Everest. That one really got me. The kid could have watched one of his parents die as well.

Oh well, don't want to get into a critique of the social classes. Mostly, I was interested in the risk assessment by parents, and the fact that it does apply to woodworking. Having caught my 8 year old grandson in the shop one time, trying to figure out how to turn on the table saw (turned off in 3 places including the panel), I know you can never let down your guard. I think that was the first time I ever raised my voice at him, he was stunned. But he had been told many times to not touch anything. But kids will be kids.

So take care all, off to bed soon. It is 58 deg here at 1945 hr, think it got to 60 or more today.

Alaska Jim


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

Too many people in this world put their lives on the line for insignificant reasons. Then other people have to put their lives on the line to save the moron. There is no need to sail around the world by yourself or go climb Mt. Hood in a 70 MPH Blizzard. A lot of people just don't have any respect for their lives. There are far to many people that need that adrenalin rush or have the need for the spotlight. This is what gets people killed. Money, greed, notoriety, it all the same thing. This family has no respect for their child's life and is only showing the world how thoughtless they are to put their child in danger. If you ask me it is criminal.


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

*Once Abby arrives back in Southern California, there will be a press conference on Tuesday June 29 at 10am.*


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

When I went on international trips, and/or SCUBA trips, I ALWAYS bought insurance that covered ANY eventuality-INCLUDING evacuation and/or repatriation of remains (flying my corpse home).

Why weren't they insured against a POSSIBLE outcome that included rescue ?

I'd BET it was possible/available. If it wasn't affordable, then … IMHO … neither was the trip.


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

Yeah, when I was in Africa and the Middle East we called guys that wouldn't do anything without insurance pussy. That's something Abigail will never be mistaken for.

Anyway there is a press conference on the *29th at 10:00* am that may answer a few questions for anyone here who may be interested in hearing what Abigail and her family has to say. If all most of you want to do is continue whining that you may just want to skip it.

I am pleased that there are a few folks here who found her story of interest rather then just posting to be thread crapping on the forum.

Many thanks to you *Hooky* for the making me aware of Jessica's incredible journey.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

"Yeah, when I was in Africa and the Middle East we called guys that wouldn't do anything without insurance pussy. That's something Abigail will never be mistaken for."

If you REALLY want to defend her honor, etc., maybe YOU should pay the $300,000 that her rescue cost.

I mean … otherwise … as usual … you're just shooting off your mouth….


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

"I am pleased that there are a few folks here who found her story of interest rather then just posting to be thread crapping on the forum."

TRANSLATION: having an opinion that differs from the one(s) that Abbott holds.

You're welcome.


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## terrilynne (Jun 24, 2010)

One question, would any of you men let your 16 year old daughter sail around the world alone? As a mother of three all I can say is Heck NO!


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

With the experience Abby and her family have, me as the father of seven, yes, and I would back them all of the way! It would be a an incredible challenge and a great thing for a teenager to attempt that would give them an experience that would help guide them for the rest of their lives. My hat's off to Abby.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

When I lived in Africa we called guys that wouldn't do anything without insurance - Uninsured - or in Shona, the word was Chongalulu, and Afrikaans it is Boerwors if you are referring to a Long drop.


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

Oh that's it* Roger*, just wait until I see you at the beach!
.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Wow *abbott* that's awfully decent of you, I'd be happy to come to your beach party. Will it be Bring your own tar ball?........ and dress code????


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

No, that's not it at all *Niel*. This is a thread about a young lady who is trying to do something extraordinary with her life…and the thread fills up with grown men complaining that her family is to wealthy so feck them" or that "the dad intentionally risked his daughter's life so feck the family" or "they are bad people" or so on and so on. Not hardly a word of encouragement to be found except from a few normal people without an ax to grind because life may have passed them by. People such as yourself who only stopped in to post a whine, that's what I call "thread crapping". This thread concerns a 16 year-old girl who has already attempted to do something difficult and wonderful with her life and has nothing to do with a group of jealous old men with nothing better to do then post crap on an Internet forum putting down an entire family of folks they don't even know.


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

*Roger* I got a kick out of "bring your own tar balls to the beach", good one


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Nah.

You just don't think anybody is entitled to ANY opinion that differs from yours.

You make that abundantly clear.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

*Abbott*
You know me, anything for a laugh. Glad you take it that way.


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