# Question about shop lighting, cooling, and a few tools.



## SouthernWoodworking (Jun 20, 2014)

Ok, so Im moving into my new shop. Its a 60×40 metal barn with horse stalls. Right now, Im in the "office" area of it and its 16×11. Im moving my tools over and in a little while, will have to knock down a wall to expand for more room. Since this Georgia heat can easily reach 98+ and get about 110 in the barn, how can I cool down this oven? I got two 20in fans that move some air but Im not sure if it needs more. I thought about adding insulation and using the window A/C that was in their about 9 years ago but its covered in dust. Not sure if it works.

As for lighting, their are two regular bulbs in their now but it need more. I went to lowes and looked around at some solutions but they are expensive. I do have some electrical background. Did several car audio installs and used to build robots so I know a little. What do yall use? I thought about running some LED strips across the roof. Its cheaper and more efficient power wise I believe. Dont know about the light output. Their is only one set of outlets in the room so Im getting a electrician out there to add 4 more. None of my tools use 220 so all will be 110.

Lastly, my birthday is about 10 days away and Im thinking about getting another tool. I have a tablesaw, circular saw, Jig Saw, scroll saw, random orbit sander, belt sander, miter saw, and drill press. I was thinking about a planer. Don W is sending me a hand plane for free ( thank you so much by the way!) but, a planer is faster. Though a hand plane is still very useful to have. I was going to do a jointer but I can make a jig for that. I also thought about a lathe. Turning seem really fun to me.

So will all that, what do yall think?


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

You need to concentrate on the HVAC side of the shop rather than tooling. No matter what tools ya have, if the shop/barn is too hot, ya can't get anything done.
I'd go for air movement at this stage.
Certainly insulation is needed as well as ventilation.
Whatcha gonna do in the winter?
Bill


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## SouthernWoodworking (Jun 20, 2014)

> You need to concentrate on the HVAC side of the shop rather than tooling. No matter what tools ya have, if the shop/barn is too hot, ya can t get anything done.
> I d go for air movement at this stage.
> Certainly insulation is needed as well as ventilation.
> Whatcha gonna do in the winter?
> ...


I love cold weather. It can be 20 outside and ill be fine. HVAC may be too expensive.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Are you talking about making a shop out of what was formerly office space? The 16' x 11' space out of the 40' x 60' total?

What kind of ceiling and how high is it. Have to know that before any recommendation can be made that makes any sense.

One thing I can say for sure is that you don't just need 4 outlets. You need, at a bare minimum, at least a couple of outlet circuits. Three or four circuits would be better. And also, don't have your lights on a shared circuit with your outlets.

I didn't see any mention of a workbench. A good solid heavy workbench is really needed to be able to use and take advantage of that hand plane. Hand tools in general were not mentioned much in your list. I don't know if you don't have them yet, or just didn't mention them, but everything productive does not have to have a tail (power cord). At a minimum I would not want to tackle any project without accurate measuring tools, some good squares, a bevel gauge, levels, a divider, and a compass. Then I would also want to have at least a block plane, a jack and a smoother in the hand plane department and at least a couple of good chisels. Finally, a good hand saw or two is needed even if you have powered saws. I use these tools on just about everything I do.

I will agree that it is more important to have a planer than a jointer after you have the above items. You can joint with hand planes and a good table saw if you have to.

Personally I'd rather have a good router before a jointer as well.

A lathe, on the other hand, is a totally different tool for a different type of wood working.

I'm building a 16' x 24' shop with a 8' x 12' attic room and I'll need a 12,000 BTU air conditioner. Bought a new one for $300. Have seen some on Craig's List of similar size for $100 to $200. I chose to go new because I wanted energy efficiency and a warranty. 12,000 BTU is about as big as you can get with a 120volt unit.

You said you have a couple of regular lights in there. Do you mean regular incandescent light bulbs?
If so, you can get 68 watt compact fluorescent bulbs that will fit in a standard light socket. They are about the size of a football and put out the equivalent of 300 watts of light. They cost about $17 each. Cheapest way I know to get a lot of light in an existing layout.


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## SouthernWoodworking (Jun 20, 2014)

> Are you talking about making a shop out of what was formerly office space? The 16 x 11 space out of the 40 x 60 total?
> 
> What kind of ceiling and how high is it. Have to know that before any recommendation can be made that makes any sense.
> 
> ...


I have two workbenches and gonna build a third to allow for bench dogs. I have level, squares, and all that. Got a nice router too. Got handsaws but need a good coping saw. I dont however have chisels and gonna buy some here soon.

when I say 4 outlets, I mean Im adding 4 'things' ( dont know the word) with 2 outlets in each. So ill have 10 outlets in total. I know the outlets and lights are a separate circuit.

The roof is about 10 ft high I think. Give or take a foot. Its got a plywood roof with some 2×6's for support and places to hang stuff. The space is already their. Im not having to build anything.


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

I suggest that wherever you plan to put those duplex outlets you put in a fourplex instead. I have a small 13' x22' insulated shop here in west Texas and run two window units to keep it cool. It is often over 100° here.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

An air conditioner won't help much if you don't have insulation. You are better off with a good air flow with a big fan.


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## diverlloyd (Apr 25, 2013)

Use a exhaust fan mounted in the gable of the roof across for the largest door. Open the door turn on the fan and that will get a nice breeze flowing through the shop. This is commonly used in large fabrication and production shops. Although it still sucks when it's hot out that fresh air breeze will make you happy not to mention it will change the air out in your shop and keep the air from heating up as bad. You can give a call to your local union sheet metal school or shop and they can help you out with figuring out the size of the fan with the amount of heat, humidity and air changes needed for your area along with or with out insulation. Remember insulation works both ways it can keep heat in or out. Don't listen to the bigger is better when it comes to hvac work that is a very bad thing to do or recommend. Any thing to do with moving air around is hvac work and calling a union shop will help you with the amount of book knowledge and experience they have in the field.


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## NormG (Mar 5, 2010)

You did not say what kind of woodworking are you contemplating and/or do now. Think about this first and this may dictate what tool to purchase. Also, I would go with the heating/cooling first, rust is not a good friend


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## HerbC (Jul 28, 2010)

Set up a sprinkler on the ridge of the roof. Water cooling will drop the temps signifivcantly during the day if you have metal roof without insulation.

This is only good if your water is cheap.


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

Insulation would be my first recommendation. I used to live in the Atlanta area and it was hot there. Can't have too much, IMHO. Window units might be too small. IMHO, exhaust fans would only bring in hot air from outside. Consider how humidity would affect your wood stored in the barn. Consider the time and energy it would take to cool down from 98 to say, 75. Lighting- I would opt for fluorescent lights- two or four bulb units. The number would depend on how you are setting up shop. 40X60? I would sell the horses and use the whole thing or at least half of it. 
I'm stuck with a 16X18 shop that used to be a garage. Fortunately, it has CH&A.


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## SouthernWoodworking (Jun 20, 2014)

> Insulation would be my first recommendation. I used to live in the Atlanta area and it was hot there. Can t have too much, IMHO. Window units might be too small. IMHO, exhaust fans would only bring in hot air from outside. Consider how humidity would affect your wood stored in the barn. Consider the time and energy it would take to cool down from 98 to say, 75. Lighting- I would opt for fluorescent lights- two or four bulb units. The number would depend on how you are setting up shop. 40X60? I would sell the horses and use the whole thing or at least half of it.
> I m stuck with a 16X18 shop that used to be a garage. Fortunately, it has CH&A.
> 
> - Knothead62


The horses have been gone for about 9 years. Only thing thats left is petrified horse poop. I have two 20in fans that I hooked up for the first time today. Cooled it off a ton and the heat index was over a 100 today. I changed the bulbs out with new ones and that made a big difference. Still may need a little though. May put bigger bulbs in.

FYI to all. The whole barn is 60×40, My shop is only 16×11. I think I wasnt clear enough the first post and some people got confused.


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## diverlloyd (Apr 25, 2013)

Knot the exhaust fan is replacing the hotter air that would be in the building and creating a breeze that will help wick away the sweat off of your body thus cooling you down. It's not as nice as a full hvac set up but would be a cheap alternative to a full hvac set up while saving up money for a full set up. Also try to plan your layout of your shop in advance. Like leaving a space empty for a full hvac set up and duct work and if I had mine to do over I would do individual breakers for different areas (lighting breakers, power outlets maybe even different breakers for different power outlets). I used to hate how the electrical company ran wiring. Jumping from one room to another on the same breaker to save on not running 40ft of extra wire instead of a individual circuit for each space. Which oddly was about what was left on a roll after we was done. Just plan ahead and I keep installing more lighting and moving what I have around I don't think you can ever perfect the lighting.


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## SouthernWoodworking (Jun 20, 2014)

> Set up a sprinkler on the ridge of the roof. Water cooling will drop the temps signifivcantly during the day if you have metal roof without insulation.
> 
> This is only good if your water is cheap.
> 
> - HerbC


Well, I do have a pond beside me. Might could hook a water pump up to it and run a line to the roof….


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## HerbC (Jul 28, 2010)

> > Set up a sprinkler on the ridge of the roof. Water cooling will drop the temps signifivcantly during the day if you have metal roof without insulation.
> >
> > This is only good if your water is cheap.
> >
> ...


I used this method to cool a 12×24 garage building we used for a shop in St. Mary's, GA back in the late 70's. It kept the shop workable in July and August. When you turned on the sprinkler on a sunny day, the water would actually hiss when it hit the tin. The water would be quite warm (read as HOT) initially and then would even out at perhaps 90 degrees…

Herb


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## diverlloyd (Apr 25, 2013)

Since it's a 16×14 a mobile ac unit may work for you will need one thats 11000 btu by my calculation. I was treating the space as in the sun with more than one person going in and out and since it has no insulation and will have machinery going as a kitchen space. You can get a ac unit for around 350 but I think in you case it would be good to get a ac and heater in one with a dehumidifier they are around 600. Those calculations will work for a inclosed space. Those prices are a lot cheaper then a full hvac install and all it would take is you ordering it and moving it around where you want it. At 11000 btu if you do add insulation you will be able to not run it as long but I wouldn't go bigger than that. We have one where I work for overlay welding inside tanks with multiple people.


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## KE4NYV (May 25, 2014)

While I'm in shop refurb mode, climate control is fresh on my mind. For starters I insulated the three walls not shared with the house. I'm not 100% sure, but I think I can already feel a difference. It seems to be keeping some of the summer heat out. I'm also thinking about framing in an opening in the back wall to accommodate a decent size window AC unit. I originally looked at a Mitsubishi mini-split system, but I just don't have $1500 to dump into that. I'm already $400 in just on plywood, other lumber and hardware. Still have plenty more to buy.

My garage door was probably the cheapest one that my home builder could put his hands on. It's essentially a stamped metal door with no core. I'm thinking about buying dense insulation foam, cutting it to fit and sticking it on with Liquid Nails. That should help with insulating the shop. As of now, there might as well not be a door there as long as it's not insulated.


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## TheWoodenOyster (Feb 6, 2013)

Cooiling: It's going to be real difficult to cool a metal barn that is 60×40 unless you want to dish out some serious cash. I'm in Texas and I feel your pain. I think you might just have to sweat it out…

Lighting: I got lucky and scavenged some tube light fixtures from a building that was being demolished. All I had to buy was bulbs, but even those were a tad pricey. I would say maybe try to round up a few tube light fixtures (I think mine are T8's?) and get them over your most commonly used workspaces. The LED strips I have seen installed on jobs I did were not bright enough for shop work in my opinion.

Next Tool: I think you are spot on with the planer. That is what I recommend you buy next.


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## SouthernWoodworking (Jun 20, 2014)

> Cooiling: It s going to be real difficult to cool a metal barn that is 60×40 unless you want to dish out some serious cash. I m in Texas and I feel your pain. I think you might just have to sweat it out…
> 
> Lighting: I got lucky and scavenged some tube light fixtures from a building that was being demolished. All I had to buy was bulbs, but even those were a tad pricey. I would say maybe try to round up a few tube light fixtures (I think mine are T8 s?) and get them over your most commonly used workspaces. The LED strips I have seen installed on jobs I did were not bright enough for shop work in my opinion.
> 
> ...


Well I dont care if the rest of the barn is hot, just the area I work in. I think the water may work, just have to pay the cost of electricity to pump the water out of the pond.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

Pull in air from the shady side of the building and exhaust out the sunny side. A roof top cyclone ventilator is good to have also.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I think that insulating the work area and sealing it off from the other area and then adding the air conditioning is a good way to go. While the other suggestions will cool the air, I would want to get the humidity down both for the tools and for myself.

I do not know how the barn is wired, but it would be a good time to review what you have and potential future needs and get it roughed in now with plenty of circuits and outlets. If the barn is older you may need to look at the wiring that is already there and make certain everything is grounded and properly wired. I can not think of anyone who has complained that they had too much power, too many circuits or too many outlets (110 and 220).

Good luck with your new shop area…..


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## SouthernWoodworking (Jun 20, 2014)

> I think that insulating the work area and sealing it off from the other area and then adding the air conditioning is a good way to go. While the other suggestions will cool the air, I would want to get the humidity down both for the tools and for myself.
> 
> I do not know how the barn is wired, but it would be a good time to review what you have and potential future needs and get it roughed in now with plenty of circuits and outlets. If the barn is older you may need to look at the wiring that is already there and make certain everything is grounded and properly wired. I can not think of anyone who has complained that they had too much power, too many circuits or too many outlets (110 and 220).
> 
> ...


Well I dont have that many tools and right now im in a garage and only have two outlets so a total of 4 or 5 in my new shop will be a big jump.


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

For lighting, you might look into a few of these clamp lights.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-150-Watt-Incandescent-Clamp-Light-CE-300PDQ/100354511

... with 42w compact flourescent (so called "200 W equivalent")

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Feit-Electric-200W-Equivalent-Daylight-6500K-Spiral-CFL-Light-Bulb-ESL40TN-D/203252142

or these 65w ("300w equivalent") bulbs

http://www.homedepot.com/p/TCP-300W-Equivalent-Soft-White-2700k-Twister-CFL-Light-Bulb-28968RP/100676712
-Paul


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