# Lumberjocks vs. the Real World



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Just when you thought it was safe to venture back into the discussion forums….
Though there are a few testy LJs here, I could write a book about how my fellow woodworkers in real shops are the most difficult co-workers of all.
Imagine, for example, in one shop I worked in: I had an old-school B&D router, one of the all metal ones, and I cherished it. One of the other benchmen came over and asked to borrow it. He returned it with a severely bent base, back to my cabinet when I wasn't looking. When I discovered it, he denied having wrecked it. A few days later, I learned that his similar B&D had fallen off a saw horse. He swapped bases with mine, hoping I'd not notice. 
Then, there was the time in that same shop when I was preparing a series of teller windows for a bank. The edge had a gentle scroll. I had laid it out on sacrificial MDF on the floor, with the pattern in place as I applied the oak moulding, with perhaps 40 parallel jaw clamps. I finished the setup just before lunch, and when I returned, all 40 clamps were stacked up on somebody else's bench. My moldings were ruined. The excuse? "Oh, I thought your glue was dry" 
If I had to make a list of every confrontation I've had with my co-workers, it would make the LJ site *Tame* in comparison. 
Have you noticed that woodworkers are less likely to get along than in other industrial trade disciplines? Have you got some battle scars inflicted on you by your woodworking co-workers? Share them here!!


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## North40 (Oct 17, 2007)

My last "real" job was in advertising. Woodworking and the construction industry have their share of strife and confrontation, but I have found them to be quite friendly compared to the advertising world.


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

i think that these occur for several reasons, one your dealing with another persons creativity…wood working can become one sided really quick, they have there way and might not be open to change…and the other is your dealing with tools…everyone like to be using the best tools…so the guy who took your router base…he wasn't honest, but he wanted his tools to be right…so to me there are several dynamics involved..with wood working comes passion…and you get too much of that in one room..there is going to be heads bumping…just a few of my reasoning of at least why these event's happen…i personally like to work in my shop alone, with no others wanting to use any of my tools…it works better that way…when it comes to tools…ideally..borrowing someone's tools..isn't a good idea…i didn't give a personal story , because i haven't had any of those types of problems…i guess Ive been lucky to not work in a large shop where these situations will happen…


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks, guys!
*Peter: * I'm sure there's lots of bloodshed in the advertising world, and I hadn't thought of the cut-throat nature of that line of work! *Grizz:* You did hit the nail on the head, it indeed seemed like the persons most likely to give you grief in large woodworking shops were the ones who had 'passion'...and somehow therefore felt no constraints toward those they felt were 'lesser' employess. And, yeah, I too absolutely freak whenever somebody ever dares ask to borrow my tools….MINE!!


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I've never worked for anyone in a shop environment.


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

My neighbour barrowed a hand saw from me and I notice that it was for his young boy building something so I just went over and took it back, another time a few years after the same guy wanted to drill a Jeep bumper to install a winch so he came over to get my brand new set of drills and I asked him I hope it is for yourself he said yes so he used then and send one of his boy to return them so before I put them away I took a look and on was broken and replaced by an old one not even the right size so that was the end with him, then once he wanted to barrow my aluminum ladder that was in plain view and I said to him I don't have any he said I see it you have on I said again I don't have one and that was the end with him.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Hmmm… okay! 
For all the times I've had my airhose stolen from me when I'm using airtools, ditto extension cords, saw blades, shaper heads removed from a shaper and misplaced or reinstalled upside down, That's what I mean. The most uncivil co-workers I've ever experienced were in woodworking shops, non-union, and upscale. There was a lot more camaraderie in the sweat-shops, like this horrible gig I once had doing millwork in a disgusting mobile-home factory. The people were great, though!


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

poopiekat …...In your first post looks like your co-workers did not like to work with you??


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Gmman anyone ask to borrow that $50,000 car you said you have?


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

I had some trouble when I worked as a mechanic years ago, I had just the week before replaced my 1/2" Craftsman impact wrench with a Blue Point (Snap On) AT-500C long anvil impact. I was working on a car close to closing time, and our porter (I.E. shop / car cleaning kid) decided to start cleaning the shop floor, with all the caustic cleaners, and all right as I was trying to button up the suspension on a customer's Jag… I had to spend 2 hours re-polishing this guys rims, not to mention the time it took me to get the crap buffed out of my impact wrench…

I am EXTREMELY picky about who I loan tools to. A very few select neighbors, and maybe 3 of my best friends from college… Never had a problem with my tools, but I did borrow a Skil 18V recip saw from a friend, that came to me with dead batteries, that would not take a charge. I was nice and bought him a new battery pack for his recip saw, and bought myself a corded recip saw… That experience just reminded me of why I hate cordless power tools…


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## davidpettinger (Aug 21, 2009)

Sign over a mirror in my shop reads, " Your looking at the only tool for loan. If you don't have what you need, go buy it." When they ask I just direct them to the wall. Used to have a clip board and pen with forms on it, asking them for a triplicate form and a deposit of $500 cash. That they thought was just a joke. Nobody borrows any tools from my shop. Nobody!!!


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

I don't think it's passion as much as it is ego. It even shows itself on the forum at times. In the shops I have worked guys often settled their disputes the old fashioned way so there tended not to be many that went beyond a few words. If a weasel like the guy who tried to swipe your router base was found out he would quickly be out the door voluntarily or involuntarily.


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

I only have a home shop, so no co-workers. But I will NOT loan out a tool (other than a wheelbarrow). If soemone needs a tool, I tell them to bring whatever it is over and I'll help them. I learned this when I was helping my neighbor fix our shared fence. He grabbed my level and used it as a hammer! (not on a nail, but to sqaure a post)


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

*Sign over a mirror in my shop reads, " Your looking at the only tool for loan. If you don't have what you need, go buy it." When they ask I just direct them to the wall. Used to have a clip board and pen with forms on it, asking them for a triplicate form and a deposit of $500 cash. That they thought was just a joke. Nobody borrows any tools from my shop. Nobody!!!*

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That's good


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## dfletcher (Jan 14, 2010)

A couple of years ago, I worked with another contractor building a massive 1600 sf deck made out of composite material that was multi-tiered. i designed the deck, then strapped on my tool belt and went out and helped him build it.

My old chisels were really no good, so I picked up new ones. Within the first two days, He had used two of my chisels to remove nails. I went to use one of the chisels and to my dismay, there was a round chip in it. I went after the other one, again, a round chip.

I billed him for new chisels, but he denied it and wouldn't pay.

We see each other occasionally and I am friendly with him. I just went and got new chisels and forgave him and forgot. I talk with him, but if he asks to use a tool, I gently and kindly tell him no.


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

I still loan my tools now and then if I think the person is responsible. If that turns out not to be so then I tell them that if they come back for another. If I borrow something (which I haven't done for years) and something happens to it then I quickly replace it.


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## woodsmithshop (Sep 10, 2008)

I had a guy call me on the phone, he did not even live in my state, complete stranger, he and his buddies had seen my business card and wanted to come to my shop" just to look around", I told him I do not give tours of my shop, he acted insulted, but I never heard from him again. it is not a good idea to loan tools/guns, etc, they never come back in the same condition they left in.


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

i agree with sras, in the fact that i will help them do what they need done, i cant afford to replace a lot of the tools i have, so i cant afford for some one to somehow miss use it and im out a tool…but wood workers are passionate people,,,they are for the most part creating a project that they might have designed and what they make , they will always have a connection to..because it came from there heart and soul…the safe thing is to help folks when they need use of a tool they don't have…if people are respectful of others and what is there's, then there usually is not a problem..the best policy to me is if you work in a large shop with other folks…then everyone needs to have and use there own tools…our tools are very important to the work we do, and they cant afford to be misused..but im lucky enough to have my own shop and not have this scenario to deal with..


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## dfletcher (Jan 14, 2010)

I just remembered. I borrowed a dewalt orbital sander from my friend. Mine had burned up and I was in between getting a new one. I had to finish this job to get enough money to buy the 4 tools I needed, mostly replacement stuff. The sander was one of them.

As I was using it, actually, just as I finished, the base ripped off. I went and replaced the base, cleaned it up, bought him some new sanding disks and returned it.

He called me up and thanked me and said that the last person who borrowed it was the one who tore it up to begin with, but he was very thankful.

He is also the only person I would consider lending a tool to.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Abbott… Yes, that's a very important point that you made, about never borrowing things yourself. I don't know which is worse, getting a tool trashed by a borrower, or getting accused of wrecking something that you borrowed. In my younger days, I recall borrowing my neighbor's car for an urgent, I mean REALLY urgent job interview. It was a 63 Impala, rusted so badly that the bumpers were brazed to what was left of the sheet metal. I brought it back with a full tank of gas, which was seeping out all over the place. My neighbor said I owed him for ruining his driveway, a new gas tank, and an overhaul of the transmission which I somehow must have ruined. I have never since been able to trust some people's motivations, and actually it explains why nowadays there are 3 cars in my driveway, 5 roll-aways full of tools, and every conceivable handyman device within my realm of ability. Oddly, I DO have my oldest, crappiest tools which I will freely lend or give when the borrowers come a-calling.


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

Damn, that guy with the Impala must of been something.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Yeah, Abbott, I shoulda known better….He was the guy who would order a steak in a restaurant, eat it, and then insist on not paying for it because 'it wasn't cooked right'. Once, he ripped the crotch of a brand-new pair of pants, went back to the men's shop where he bought them, and exchanged them… for the same size…duhh!! Oh, and that Chevy? He drove it for 6 more months…without water or antifreeze. It wasn't far to his workplace, and he figured why fill the radiator, it would just leak out anyway. Finally it seized…. any involvement with that character was a big risk….but alas those people walk among us!


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

Their you go poopiekat and it is $51000 paid cash too I can send you the bill of sale, the wife is getting a smaller version of the same vehicle. No one can borrow this one for the next 5 years.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn11/GMman_2008/Picture104-1.jpg

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn11/GMman_2008/Picture103-1.jpg

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn11/GMman_2008/Picture102-1.jpg


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## hazbro (Mar 19, 2010)

I wouldn't loan out an anvil. People have a magical way of breaking ******************** that isn't theirs. That said, I used to be a chef, and the restaurant business is way way way more cut throat and back stabbing and stressful.


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

I am a firm believer in the old adage, "Neither a borrower nor a lender be." And every time I have lent anything, it has cost me. The last time I went against this rule, I loaned my hammer drill. I have had this tool over twenty years and I have kept it well maintained. The guy used it to core a 2 inch hole through a curb. It came home looking like he had used it to mix concrete. I cleaned it up and the next time I saw him, asked how it came home in such deplorable condition. He admitted it was his fault but no offer to clean it. Fortunately it still is in good working order, but next time I will hand him the phone book open to tool rentals.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Ooopsie! This is NOT the "what kind of car do you drive" thread…
*Hazbro: * I'll admit i spoke prematurely about the woodworking industry having more nasty co-workers than other career disciplines. Having worked for a short time in a kitchen, I can only imagine what kind of stuff you've been through. *lilred*, I have a hammer drill story too. I started picking up some Postal contract work, mostly building services stuff, and field work, mostly locks and stuff, from a friend. We started to get a lot of work re-attaching mailboxes to concrete slabs, which necessitated a generator. I bought a 2500 watt Generac and a Bosch hammer drill. This 'friend' decided not to cut me in for the expense of the generator. One day, I found the generator and hammer drill missing from my garage, and yes, he took them. He was scooping up all this work with MY equipment! This was a guy who wouldn't have known a concrete anchor if it bit him in the butt! Until I taught him. So I removed my stuff from his truck and put it away. Ultimately the work all came my way, directly from the Postmasters who were much more impressed with my work than his. Nobody can really be trusted.


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## hazbro (Mar 19, 2010)

You know that Bosch makes a 36 volt lithium ion Bulldog? I have one, came with two quick charge batteries and can drill 1/2" holes all day. I've never burned up both batteries charges on one days work.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Good to know, hazbro! This era of time was the mid-90s, when few people took cordless tools seriously for anything but homeowner duty. If I ever did field work again, I'd seriously contemplate whether a generator was something I would live without! Thanks for the tip!


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## antmjr (Sep 7, 2009)

It's incredible how much we all are similar…sort of brothers-in-wood, if I may joke: I don't loan my beloved tools either. 
--
When I was a kid, I read a novel by a Russian writer of the XIX century, frankly I don't remember who he was; the novel itself wasn't the original version, but a sort of copy, rewritten in simpler form for kids from the original book. The novel told the story of a Jewish artisan of the East, who owned a toolbox, and because he needed his tools for a living, the relationship between him and his tools became stronger and stronger, deeper and deeper, day after day, so that he started thinking of his tools as part of his own body; well, it's more then 40 years now that I do the same. Could we loan, say, a foot or a nose?


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

How to handle borrowers:
Neighbor, could I borrow your chainsaw?
No, I'm making soup.
What does making soup have to do with borrowing your chainsaw????
If I don't want to loan you my chainsaw, one reason is as good as another!


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Great comments, everyone!


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## woodsmithshop (Sep 10, 2008)

good one Knothead


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

new jig saw borrowed without permission…..................guy said some one else stole it at the job site so I went to his house and low and behold there was my jig saw

In a shop with about a dozen routers the boss (in my absence) lets his pubescent son use "MY" router and the kid broke the housing. Same boss let that little prick borrow my Gesswien and got IT back broken.

Made a cutting jig at a concrete form company, for the miter saw, turn around and another guy rips it off the machine and smashes it.

made a table, ready for stain and some other moron stains it a colour the client didnt even want.

My better halfs son walks into my shop, "borrows" my pellet rifle without even asking (he has no business even being in my shop) and yet to return it and that was three weeks ago. her other son borrowed my weed wacker and broke that, they took my boat, smashed the windshield and then tried to deny even taking it.

There isnt enough bandwidth to write down all the BS I have seen that takes place in "pro" shops.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

on a second note and at least in my experiences, most of the cabinet makers I have worked for and or with have been kind, considerate and respectful of my tools and work.


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## JJohnston (May 22, 2009)

How about this one? You lend something to a friend/colleague, then he turns around and lends it to somebody you hardly know, and figures he's no longer responsible for it.


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## buffalo689 (Mar 2, 2010)

One of the many reasons I'm self employed..


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## CampD (Nov 8, 2008)

I second that Bill!

I have one, not about tools but in a shop none the less.
Worked in a laminate shop for a couple months, also a theirs a guy with the same first name.
I was on the finish end and he runs the monster table saw, I'm out installing counters with the owners father and this guy (same first name) is doing the finish on a small order, we get back to the shop at the end of the day and I take over what he has all but hacked-up and ruined, just the very end of the project.
next morn I get called into the office and get fired becuse the name on the card is "so & so" my first name, blaming me for screwing up the order, tried to explain but they wernt having it. I figured they wanted this lug-head to run the saws, I just walked out.

Anyone asks to borrow my tools I tell them they come with me and a bill in one hand.


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## WoodyWoodWrecker (Jul 1, 2009)

My brother-in-law keeps telling me that I can borrow his tools every time I tell him that I'm looking to buy one. I buy them anyway. I would prefer to buy my own stuff than possibly have to buy the lender a new one if it breaks. Especially, when it might have broken on them the next time they used it. I don't like to borrow things and I don't like to lend out things. Too many things have came back in worse shape or sometimes, not at all. If they don't bring it back, I feel bad having to track it down.


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## buffalo689 (Mar 2, 2010)

I had tools robbed while I was THERE working.!


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## doordude (Mar 26, 2010)

I'm with abbott; if i do borrow a tool and something happens to it ,i'll replace it no questions.
as for mine, every tool i own has my name or mark on it somewhere. including a router base that can be removed;
then theres no question,is there; I guess then, thats when you take the coworker out the back door for an adjustment.


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## juniorjock (Feb 3, 2008)

The word "NO" is a very powerful word. I use it a lot. On the phone, at my front door, in the shop…. doesn't matter. And you know what I like most, when someone asks you for something or wants you to buy something and you say NO. The look on their face is like, "you can't just say NO".... well, I just did. NO is a good word.


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## Gregn (Mar 26, 2010)

I learned to keep 2 sets of tools. Mine and mine alone, and then there's mine that I lend. As you have figured the good ones aren't borrowed out. My son finally figured it out when he asked to borrow a tool and I told him I didn't have one and my good tool was right there for him to see. I have since noticed handles have been replaced or a new tool shows up to replace one that was lost. I also noticed he don't borrow to many tools anymore like he use to. It pays to have 2 sets of tools.


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## rtb (Mar 26, 2008)

The only one that borrows my tools is my better half and she slways expects that the operator,me, comes with it. once in a rare while she loans a tool out the same way, I go with it but always to something or someone she knows I would agree to. Uasually an o0lder persone who needs something minor fixed.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

On tools, the reason I have what you want is I never lent it out before.

I have one friend I have to loan tools to, he was instrumental in getting me going again after I'd been down for a while. For example, he gave me a twelve horse, 4000 PSI Honda powered pressure washer. He is a horrible steward of tools though. I've seen him throw angle grinders off a three or four story building to avoid having to carry them down. As such, when he needs a tool, I've been known to drop in at HF and buy just what he needs. It usually never gets returned, but that's better than watching my variable speed Milwalkee go south.

The worst people I ever worked with on a job were-- the home owners.

I had a lady insist I cram six inch insulation into her four inch walls, even after being told why it wasn't a good idea. She went ahead and installed the insulation, over the top of nails and everything. Then it was my fault because I didn't lift it all and locate the nails that pushed into the rock. I set her up so she could never stiff me more than six hundred on the job. It proved a good plan (every other contractor was an idiot (red flag))

Another lady insisted I install an over-the-stove microwave the way her employee was going to do it - by hanging it just from its back. Interestingly, I had fired the guy months before. As I pointed out to her, she would be risking a boiling pot of food down the front of a renter, along with a microwave, and that sounded like a very expensive law suit in the happening. Needless to say, I did not install the microwave her way

I have a regular customer who likes to "learn" things from me, then do it his way. For example, he has poly finished oak floors. Still, he insists on coating them with boiled linseed oil, even after being told why that won't work (I may have at least convinced him to wipe off the excess). And yes, he's already done it once, and has seen the results.

I worked one job where we had to take the money for the product. I was just a kid. Within days of me being there, the till kept coming up short. I was sweating bullets, thinking maybe I'd screwed up counting change. I, obviously, knew I hadn't pocketed any money. Long story short, since I was the new kid and the problems started on my arrival, I got fired. Two weeks later I got a call and an offer of rehire and a raise. As the former boss noted, the problem continued after I was gone, so there was at least a remote possibility I was not the culprit.


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