# Help With Tree Cutting Strategy



## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

A large ash tree fell in our back yard about 10 days ago. I plan to cut it into firewood with a chainsaw. I do have a fair amount of chainsaw experience, but have never been faced with a task quite this large or this precarious, so I'm looking for tips on how best to safely get this thing to ground level so I can cut it. The saw is a 34cc gas Makita with a 16" bar…new. I'd guess the trunk is ~ 20" diameter, and the whole tree is about 65'. The pics below give a good hint of what I'll be facing. I plan to trim the smaller stuff from the top right down to those two "pillars" that are holding up the main trunk. The main trunk is suspended over 7 feet up by those big limbs, and that's where my concern is….what's the best approach for dropping the main trunk to ground level from those limbs?

(real winter has set in, and there's now 8 or 9" snow covering the scene, so I probably won't get to it for a while…just trying to plan my approach)


































Thanks for any guidance!


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

Ok, I will attack this the way I would go about it if it was my tree. Mileage may vary.

Only work on the trunk from the bottom.

Start near the root ball and make a up cut . When you see it move back off. work up the trunk a bit to where your firewood length would be (24"?) do the same. When you see it move back off. Rinse repeat. You may only make it 8 or 10'. Go back to the root ball and bump it again. you see it drop then go up to the next cut.

The way I go about this is to safely work it in segments so it begins to relieve the stress and lower itself to the ground.

By the way, do you have a tractor or truck? You may find that after lowering it to the ground, slowly and in segments, never cutting all the way through, a bit of mechanical force can assist in getting it to a place where the stress isnt that bad.

By looking at pic 1 I would try to get all the sawing done from the pics LH side. It seems it would want to twist and roll to the RH side. But thats just my gut.

[Insert a bunch of safety warnings]


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

That's a tough one. Whichever one of those legs you cut the tree will want to roll towards you. Can you partially cut a leg (or both legs at the same height) up high with a hinge cut and use a chain on your pickup (if you have a pickup) to pull the tree in that direction and roll it to the ground flat? Some reading here may help.

http://www.treeservicesmagazine.com/tree-care-management/assessmentbidding/understanding-the-hazards-of-felling-storm-damaged-trees/


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Thanks guys. No pickup or tractor (lawn tractor isn't currently operational), and there's really no easy way to get a truck back there.

I also failed to mention that the corner of the house is about 15 feet to the right of the pics. Once the top stuff is trimmed off, that really shouldn't be an issue. The chain link fence on the left side could be a problem if the trunk rolls the wrong way….it's the neighbor's fence.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

Anything secure enough to hook a come along on to back there?

You might be able to relieve some of the pressure on one of those legs if you put a long four by four (on a square of plywood) under the part of the tree where it wyes out and drive it inward with a sledge. That would let you cut one of those legs off. Then pull the bottom of the 4×4 out with a rope or the come along and it would fall flat.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

No place for a come along, but I should be able wedge a 4×4 under there.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

First I would clean up all of the debris and limbs and such so they are not in your way when you start on the tree. I would start at the root and work up from there. Have some plastic wedges handy, log tension is hard to read even for experienced sawyers. You don't want to pinch your bar or you will have to find another chainsaw to get it out. After the first cut it should be obvious where the tension is, by looking at the picture I'd say it is going to either be on the top of the log or the bottom. If it is on the top make your cut across the top first then before it pinches your bar start cutting from underneath it should open up as you finish your cut. Use your wedges whenever you are unsure whether you are going to get a pinch. Having the log up off the ground is an advantage because you can get underneath it and keep your bar out of the dirt. Eventually as you work your way up the bole you and it gets smaller you will be able to work on the "legs" by then you should be able to man handle it any way you want.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

I think you need to search how to buck a tree that is being held up by it's branches. I would NOT start from the bottom - the thinnest part of the tripod is the dogleg on the right in your picture and I would focus on that. The SAFEST way to cut the trunk is when it's flat on the ground.


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Clean up, cut off all the branches first that are not contacting the ground. Make it as light as possible in every way without disturbing it's balance. I like to work from the smallest end to the largest end. I find it easier to make the through cuts on the firewood pcs when they are suspended. They just fall a couple of feet to the ground. Keeps from having to roll them around to complete the cuts.

Once you get all the cutable material removed. You may be able to rock it off the tripod type set up, then remove more material. Just whittle this thing down best you can before you have to attack any cuts that could bind the saw blade, and/or cause shifting.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

I'm having trouble seeing a 100% safe way to do it without a vehicle. If you can anchor a come along and take weight off one of the legs that would be a good start. Personally I'd start the same as Shane by removing all the extraneous branches so they aren't whipping around when it rolls.


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## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

start from the small branches and work your way down


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*ShaneA +1*

Get the smaller stuff, that is NOT supporting the tree, out of the way… Someone else could then be cutting up & building the Kindling stack / pile while you're working on the rest. 

Then, go after the larger branches, that are NOT supporting the tree, cutting from the smallest ends letting the rest staying connected to the trunk, small fireplace lengths, down to the trunk. Get all of this done & out of the way before tackling the main trunk.

Using other props as required to keep the trunk stable, again, starting at the top, cutting fireplace length pieces, toward the trunk… Propping, etc. to keep tree stable… Leaving some branch stubs might be useful so that ropes can be tied to them & staked to ground, or tied to something else, to secure movement.

Work your way to the larger portions of the tree… tying, propping, etc. on the the way…

You can always make a 'relief' cut UNDER a section until it starts to 'give' a little; then, cut it off from the top (to stop the possibility of it pinching the blade).

Take it slow & easy… thinking your way through the tree…

Stack everything where it can sit until next year… to be dried enough to burn… 

That is the way I cut down a Pine tree in my back yard… Cleaned all of the branches OFF as high as I could go, then made a relief cut to control direction of the fall, followed by the final Topping cut to remove the top… Then, I proceeded to cut off fireplace sized lengths down the trunk… I still have a large stub at the base; looks like I could cut it off to make a picnic table.

Hope this helps.


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## Snipes (Apr 3, 2012)

I also would start from the root ball, leaving the small stuff attached in case it would start to roll it would slow it. Standing on right side of first pic, relief cut on top and upper cut. Work your way up the tree and it looks to me that it would eventually roll away from you.


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

that there is quite a predicament and w/o truck or winch power gonna be tricky.
here is one thought to get it down:
After all the brush is removed ànd ya have everything you can cut off of it, get a pair of 12-14' 2 by 6's. use one to wdege into the ground on the right side of the tree with enough room to wedge one against the tree to the point the 2 by 6 has a good bow jn it. get the other 2 by wedged into the grond close. now straighten up the one thats against the tree-basically pushing the tree to the left,wedge the free 2by against the tree then reposition the 1st one to do it agian.
hope this makes sense. its old school egyptian stuff.


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

youd also be amazed at what a hydraulic jack and a 4 by 4 can do.
thats not old school egyptian.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Thanks gang….plenty of food for thought, and I've got time to plan!


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

Cleaning up the debris and thinner branches you can reach WITHOUT putting the saw above your shoulder height is a given.

You can also attach a come along to the trunk of the tree itself. Just be sure you have an escape path of you cut one leg of that tripod and the trunk starts to roll. Again, I would start with the 'knee' of that dog leg.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Cut and run. Or dynamite.


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## JoeinGa (Nov 26, 2012)

Just make sure it doesn't do THIS when you start cutting ! 
.
.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

Scott, I deal with a lot of trees in this situation. I always start at the top, remove (and clear away) everything down to the 2 "props". If you have nothing to anchor a come along to, I would drive a metal stake in the ground as a come along anchor to keep this thing from rolling on you/pinching your bar when you go to cut the support limbs.

I often use those 3" wide cargo ratchet straps rather than a come along as they are long enough to maybe get to something to anchor to.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Hi Scott, Looks like you have plenty of advice. ;-) I have done a lot of "urban fire wooding" from fallen trees, some times even hanging over small buildings ;-(

If you do not have another tree or stump to anchor safety lines or pull against a good strong stake driven at an angle can accomplish a lot. It is always helpful with a little bit of chain, chokers and cable to do some rigging.

I cut a few relief wedges out to protect against getting your bar stuck as you go.

I would normally cut the small debris and branches out of the way. Scatter the bigger ones along to keep the main trunk off the ground when it falls down.

From the looks and height, I would probably start at the base, but might change my mind if I was there in person.

If I decided to start at the two supporting branches, I would cut 2 wedges, maybe 3, about 3 feet apart to break the first branch to drop the log to the ground. They are probably driven into the ground far enough you can't break them very easily without a winch or tractor. That is why I would do two or three cuts, one to break and one or two for relief from the part driven into the ground. It can be done with a come-a-long and a sturdy stake.

Good luck. This mess greeted us on our first trip to the tree farm last spring. Glad I scouted before taking the 5th wheel down that road ;-)










I hate it when I have to start with both ends in the air ;-( This is when you take advantage of "safety trees" still standing ;-) I'm chicken, I hide behind them when ever I can!










It is amazing what you can do in a few hours with a good sharp saw if you keep your wits about yourself ;-)

Edit: I forgot to mention to expected the unexpected. There are lots of stresses in those log piles and fallen trees.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

A stake in the ground may have to do b/c there's really nothing else for more than 50' to anchor too.

Joe - I spotted that video while researching….unbelievable!


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

I can't emphasize this can be the most dangerous aspect of cutting a tree down, especially when the trunk is suspended that high off the ground. There is unbelievable pressure on those supporting limbs.

Nobody is going to definitively be able to tell you how to strip the tree without actually being there and seeing how its laying, where the forces are, etc. so take that into account. Things may change as you start working on it.

Echoing what gfdvm said, but I generally start delimbing from the bottom (it doesn't really matter) taking the easiest stuff first & clearing it as I go. The limbs that are suspending the tree will be the toughest AND MOST DANGEROUS part of the whole operation. I can almost guarantee you will pinch your saw if you've never done this before. Learning to make relief cuts with the top side of the bar can avoid alot of problems with pinching.

Before you make any cut that will cause the tree to move, MAKE SURE you've looked to see you have a clear path to quickly move out of the way without tripping. I know of a couple guys who had downed trees break human limbs because they tripped while the trunk was falling.

My advice: *Get someone to help you who knows what they're doing.*


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## Kentuk55 (Sep 21, 2010)

Very interesting. Thnx for that very informative link : dehazelton


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## JeffP (Aug 4, 2014)

first… +1 on all the advice above to clean it up before you start trying to deal with the "tripod". I have never (yet) injured myself by getting caught under a few thousand pounds of tree. Somehow something in your gut will usually send you running before it is too late. OTOH, I certainly HAVE injured myself by tripping over or getting partially impaled by a "small" branch. When the time eventually comes that your gut tells you to get the heck out of there, you don't want to have to hop over a bunch of debris on your way out.

Second…an ash tree huh? Get yourself a good chain sharpener…you're gonna need it. The hardened steel teeth on your chain are only a little bit harder than that tree you're about to battle.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

I would have to agree with the many previous posts about delimbing it first. Take off everything you can leaving three points of contact. Keep the area clean and have an escape plan if it starts to move, the less debris in the way, the quick (and safer) your exit strategy can be executed. Possibly one of the harder parts would trying to determine which way it might move, this is an experience/common sense thing that is as much about planning as it is being to be able to get away quickly should something unexpected happen. After delimbing and clearing all debris, you can start opposite the trunk cutting the support limbs, the scary thing here is the tree is now rolling toward you as you drop it down. Cutting short logs off the supporting limbs will keep it from moving/rolling too much, don't shoot for the ideal firewood length, but rather what allow the tree to go down slowly and safely (in my experience less than 12" at a time). The best way to accomplish this is cutting the top (compression side) about 1/3 of the diameter and then cutting from the bottom (tension side) toward the previous cut. The aforementioned exit strategy is key here, be ready to get away and fast! Once the trunk is flat on the ground the rest is gravy. I used this exact method to fell and dissect a gnarly 80 ft. pin oak that required only a tractor to pull it in the right direction (it was 3' from a building) and the rest was just me and an 18" Makita chainsaw.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

I'll definitely start by clearing the smaller stuff from the top, getting that whole area cleaned and out of the way, then will re-evaluate the "tripod" situation. If it looks like something I'm not comfortable doing, I may even hire someone to at least get it to ground level. Thanks again for the all the suggestions.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

And a belated welcome to the Forestry Forum. A great bunch of guys with a lot of experience over there.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Exit strategy has been mentioned. As I explained about cutting to break those tripod limbs, my exit strategy is to already be gone when that trunk drops. That is why I use mechanical leverage to do the final break rather than cut.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

I have to deal with stuff like that all the time… but I have a tractor, which makes it a bit easier 

In the absence of a tractor, how about a pickup truck and a chain or largish rope or three to pull it over? Of course, getting it to the ground is the first of your problems… once there, you will need to figure out a way to cut it up into smaller pieces, and with a 16" chainsaw, that isn't going to be the easiest feat either! Then moving them will be the next challenge. Unless chunked into pretty small pieces, those things will still weigh a ton.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: How is that Makita (Dolmar) working out for you?


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

> ...In the absence of a tractor, how about a pickup truck and a chain or largish rope or three to pull it over? ...
> PS: How is that Makita (Dolmar) working out for you?
> 
> - MrUnix


No way to get truck back there either.

The Makita looks great in the box! ;-) Real winter showed up before the saw did…12" of snow is going to keep me a way for a while anyway. Gives me time to plan my attack!


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

there are very few problems in life that cant be resolved with the proper application of high explosives.


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

Scott…

Looks like your 12" of snow will expand greatly before you know it…!!

http://www.speaker.gov/snow


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Next up, paul ryan watches paint dry.


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## pete724 (Mar 9, 2016)

Firewood?? sorry cant help you!

Kidding. Build some good temporary supports under the trunk so that it cant fall or roll before cutting the branches that support it!


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Update on "Man vs Tree".... Getting there! Man is winning, but is also waning…I'm new to being old!

Spring in the northeast has been miserable, so I haven't gotten to spend much time with this big ash tree til today. Is was close to 70' tall, and ~ 20" diameter. See the first post to see pics of the original….and note my daughter's to put things to scale.

Here's the sequence:


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Nice progress. Looks like you need a couple wedges to go with that maul ;-) Happy splitting!


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## JeffP (Aug 4, 2014)

So, Knotscott, what solution did you use for the "tripod" issue?


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

Ash splits pretty easily but I would rent a hydraulic splitter.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

> So, Knotscott, what solution did you use for the "tripod" issue?
> 
> - JeffP


I wedged a support pillar under one the nearest leg (another branch), cut the leg away, then removed the wedge. I went high tech to remove the pillar when the rope method failed….I hurled big chunks of logs at it til if fell! :-D


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

> Ash splits pretty easily but I would rent a hydraulic splitter.
> 
> - Redoak49


Either that or invite my 3 boys over for burgers and beer! All I have to do is pose splitting wood as a contest or test of strength! ;-)


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## JeffP (Aug 4, 2014)

@knotscott, this sounds entertaining: "I hurled big chunks"

Got any video of that?


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

Very good progress!

Are you going to select some pieces for Woodworking, resawing, etc.?
... Ash is really a very COOL wood…


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

> @knotscott, this sounds entertaining: "I hurled big chunks"
> 
> Got any video of that?
> 
> - JeffP


Ha, ha….I felt like hurling chunks a few times! .



> Very good progress!
> 
> Are you going to select some pieces for Woodworking, resawing, etc.?
> ... Ash is really a very COOL wood…
> ...


Early on I thought I might try to slab some into usable lumber, but at this point….ain't gonna happen! Just not worth the time and effort considering how far I'm behind on everything else around here! I already have about 120 BF (@ $2/BF delivered) in my racks, plus I can buy more for < $3 bd/ft pretty easily around here.


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## pete724 (Mar 9, 2016)

> So, Knotscott, what solution did you use for the "tripod" issue?
> 
> - JeffP
> 
> ...


Good Job on the support.

Trivia question(related to the problem);

How does one remove a load bearing wall in a house?

First build a temporary frame wall next to it.

THEN remove the loadbearing wall.

When the NEW loadbearing wall is built you may remove the temporary one.


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