# Hand planes for billionaires . . .



## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

For the billionaire woodworker who has everything . . .

http://www.holteyplanes.com/


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## muleskinner (Sep 24, 2011)

Proof that there are people that live in a completely different world than I do.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I've seen those, and read a PWW review of one. Shwartz actually had a complaint about the way the tote was fastened to the plane (only one screw as I recall). Anyway, it's hard to imagine I'd spend that much on one even if I had Bill Gates money.


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## Moai (Feb 9, 2009)

What a big mouth has that guy -Schwartz-, to even dare to criticize a Holtey Plane!!!!


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## akmiller907 (Sep 18, 2012)

I would love to have some of his work. Holty is considered to be quite possibly the best hand plane maker ever. But doubt that I will ever get that luxury. Instead I am shooting for a complete set of old Stanleys and lie Neilsens.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

Some of those cost more than all my power tools combined!
I wonder if these actually get used or just get collected, and if so, by whom!


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## Ripthorn (Mar 24, 2010)

I go to Karl's site somewhat regularly, as I am wanting to build a couple of infill planes and he has a lot of good info. I have found that the infill makers (Karl Holtey, Ron Brese, Konrad Sauer, etc.) are extremely open to sharing information regarding how they make their planes. They don't try to keep stuff hidden from the average joe, in fact, they get on some of the forums and participate and answer questions regularly. Of course I will never be able to buy one, but I can at least get a education on them.


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## JR45 (Jan 26, 2012)

If you take a look at the website there are hundreds of shots showing the enormous amount of detailed work that goes into the design and creation of these planes. Many buyers use them on a daily basis while some sit and stare at them! Worth every penny IMHO.
Jim


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

You might also like Marcou's planes which can be seen here . Philip is a member here and a very nice guy.


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## muleskinner (Sep 24, 2011)

I'll admit to being pretty clueless about hand planes, so maybe someone can fill me in. I look at the 'Handplanes of your dreams' thread and see pictures of rebuilt Stanley and Bedrock planes that were rescued from the bargain bin and guys are making tissue thin passes with those things. What advantage does a Holtey plane have over those?


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

It's probably like a Rolls Royce vs a jalopy Mr.MSkinner.


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## muleskinner (Sep 24, 2011)

So no functional advantage?


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

What advantage does a Holtey plane have over those?

None, there are some subtle advantages like weight (easier to push the plane), better blades, Marcou is making a plane with a magnetic mouth so the blade does not slide through ( I guess that is a problem for some rich guys).

I guess the only true advantage is that they come ready to use out of the box, which is not the case with regular planes, even LN have to be checked and the blades honed.


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## JR45 (Jan 26, 2012)

Both a Rolls and a jalopy will get you from A to B but you will have a far better experience in the Rolls!
Jim


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## DouginVa (Mar 5, 2012)

And they are pretty darn cool lookin' too. I wouldn't mind adding a few of those to my tool cabinet. Remind me to start looking under the sofa cushions, car seats, washing machine, piggy bank, etc. Anybody need their grass cut? I don't charge very much. I need to find a paper route….......


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## DouginVa (Mar 5, 2012)

And they are pretty darn cool lookin' too. I wouldn't mind adding a few of those to my tool cabinet. Remind me to start looking under the sofa cushions, car seats, washing machine, piggy bank, etc. Anybody need their grass cut? I don't charge very much. I need to find a paper route….......


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

check out bridge city as well. All I can figure is there are a lot of powerball winners who are wood workers.

I think they come with a super model to hold them while you work. I'm not sure about her room and board.


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## JoeinGa (Nov 26, 2012)

I know the old saying that if you say something over and over enough times, you'll soon start to believe it.

But posting it twice wont make it more real Doug…


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

I have had that happen before too!


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

I have had that happen before too!


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

"I have been making traditional infill planes for over 20 years now and I am surprised that no-one else has produced a similar plane. Maybe it's because, despite its relatively simple looks, it is a complex plane to make due to its limited parameters."

I'm sure his planes are high-quality products. But the above statements are, at best, sophomoric.


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## rockindavan (Mar 8, 2011)

I personally think these planes are ugly. They have too much going on. For that money I want it simple and elegant that is centered on use and comfort.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

They look similar to the Wood magazine plans published some years back, except for the irons.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Concentrated mass in a smoother assists in helping the
iron stay in the cut when working tricky or very hard
woods. That's part of why the heavy infill smoothers
were developed as European cabinetmakers got
access to dense new tropical woods. The old wood
planes worked well enough on the trees indigenous 
to Europe.


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## Moai (Feb 9, 2009)

I had the oportunity to stop by the Sauer&Stainer booth at a Lie Nielsen Tool Event in Oakland, California, and Conrad Sauer the owner-an extremely nice guy- gave me the chance to try one of his panel planes, and I can tell, that is another level of tools and woodworking…...it is said that people that buy a Mercedes for a first time, they continue driving them for the rest of their lifes.


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## Smile_n_Nod (Jan 20, 2011)

If someone else has more money than he knows what to do with, and you can figure out how to legally and ethically convince him to give you a whole bunch of that cash for something you've made, more power to you.


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

I also really like Sauer and Steiner planes, especially the K series


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

Both a Rolls and a jalopy will get you from A to B but you will have a far better experience in the Rolls!
Jim
JIm have you ever been in a real jalopy?MIne has all that a rolls has and more.Like oil wicked headlamps ala mode, genuine wooden tires,
parachute brake in emergency otherwise the grapling hook comes as standard
full air conditioning via the many holes in the bodywork
,0 to 15mph in ten minutes when fully tuned with a backwind,
obligatory steering wheel as an optional extra,otherwise a monkey wrench on the steering column which is collapsable by the way milk paint job.All as standard does a rolls royce have all these el cheapo features.Alistair?


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## newwoodbutcher (Aug 6, 2010)

Could be my technophobic condition, but I couldn't find any prices, anywhere on his site, even though there is a price tab. His planes are indeed a thing of beauty. I'm not interested because I want to buy a few (LN is my limit) I'm just curious. Does anyone know what his prices are?


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Prices start at 2500 pounds sterling - about $4k, and go up
to 7000 pounds for the largest planes.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

So sell a good kidney on eBay and you can get yourself one.


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## pete57 (Jan 22, 2009)

I could never use it at those prices, just a tad more than I can afford


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Very sterile tools. Exceptional fit and finish to be sure, but without soul. Yeah, read the tag line.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

I would love 2 of each

1 at home

1 for travel


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## BentheViking (May 19, 2011)

i have a few of those i never used…free to a good home to whomever PMs me first

jk please don't PM me


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## JR45 (Jan 26, 2012)

Ah! Alistair you must have one of the specials made specifically for the Scots. It must turn heads when you drive it down the road! LOL.
Jim


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

Well aren't those special. Most people that buy those probably don't sweat. They just like telling everyone that they have them.


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

You don't have to ba a billlionaire- just have a credit card with a high limit.


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

As I've thought about this guy over the past day, there's something about this story that I wanted to mention. It relates to the free market.

I can imagine that at one point the guy made a decision to build planes "his way" and to then charge for those planes whatever would be necessary to enable him to keep making them "his way." The gamble was, of course, whether enough people in the world would be willing and able to pay the price he would need. I suspect that he has decided that if, to continue to be in the plane building business, it would be necessary to lower his price and build planes in a manner that was not "his way," he would simply get out of the business - he would not compromise.

I like that.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the business philosophy of, in order to make money, being whatever it is the customer wants, but I find the story of a $10,000 hand plane maker to be refreshing.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*Mark, you are absolutely correct!*

That is what entrepreneurship is all about and is evident by all the jocks that make a living and/or support their habit in woodworking!

Like the old saying goes "Build a better mousetrap and the world will …....!", and doesn't mention prices at all!


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

I don't know that the world is beating a path to this guy's door, but the key is that there are *enough* customers, apparently, to enable him to continue doing what he's chosen to do.

For several years back in the 90's, my work provided me with close working relationships with the general managers of Hawaii's top resorts. During our more relaxed times (lunches, etc.) I enjoyed probing them on the mindsets and attitudes of the owners of their resorts and their justification for making close-to billion dollar investments in developing their properties.

I learned that these investors, before the first dollar (yen) was spent, decided to build a 5-diamond resort - no matter how much it cost to do so - and then to set their room rates according to their costs. They didn't go into it with the intention of building the nicest possible resort with rooms that go for no more than a predetermined maximum rate.

Approaching it this way requires a huge amount of faith that enough people in the world have the desire and ability to stay in such a place - in other words, who appreciate and can reward excellence. I've noticed that those who take this approach (create excellence then charge however much is required to keep doing it the same way) seem to thrive. They certainly appear to enjoy what they're doing.


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## SteveAltman (Sep 2, 2012)

I've seen this thread many times, in many woodworking forums and I thought, this time, I might offer a few words about Karl Holtey's planes.

They work extremely well.

They cost about ten times what a comparable (in function) Lie-Nielsen plane costs.

Do they work 10 times as well as a Lie-Nielsen or well-tuned Stanley antique? No. (Anyone can get whisper thin shavings with any of these planes, if you know what you're doing.)

Is there quite a different experience when you work with them. Yes, definitely.

Is that difference worth the extra cost? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Depends on YOU.

Are they used, every day, in shops around the world? Yes.

Are they displayed, untouched by dust or shavings, on someone's mantle somewhere. Yes, probably. There's a woman in San Francisco who, I've heard, has one of each of his planes. I don't think she's a woodworker. I don't know why she has them. Who cares?

I can tell you this. If you were around in the 60's and 70's, and involved in woodworking, you would know that information about planes (and benches and sharpening techniques, etc., etc., etc.) was not that easy to find, especially about infill planes. This is before Fine Woodworking, and Popular Woodworking, and videos, and cd's, and blogs, and forums discussing minutae like the in and outs of setting chipbreakers. Quite possibly the only way you would know about Norris planes, for example, would have been reading about them (at the library, probably) in dusty old books by Charles Hayward or Ernest Joyce. When, later on, in the 80's and 90's, you heard about someone who had made it his life's work to find out how Norris planes were created, to understand how the fabled double dovetail was done, who had gone so far as to interview the last old men who had worked at the Norris factory so that their techniques, which had never been recorded anywhere, could be passed down to others and not lost, well, it might have piqued your interest. And when you found out that that person was building his own Norris planes - and then his own designs for planes - you might have thought to yourself - "it might be interesting to get one of those babies - cost be damned." You might have had to forego that vacation, or that car, or whatever else you spend "a little extra on" and decided that you'd rather have a "new" Norris plane developed by someone who had taken the time and trouble to learn everything about them, and about planemaking in general.

You don't need to be a billionaire. You just have to want to use a Karl Holtey plane.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Funny, what is the difference between a $10,000 plane and a $90,000 rocking chair? There is a market for everything and excellence has its price.

As a woodworker I don't need a Holtey plane, as a consumer I would love to have the full line provided that they would "disappear" in my hands and I could afford them. Sometimes the value is not in what the tool can do but, but how much you enjoy using it.


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