# What am I doing wrong with pocket holes?



## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

I don't want to turn this into a pocket hole vs some other kind of jointery debate. That being said I was just trying to figure out what they are good for besides face frames.

If I try to use pocket holes to build a simple cabinet carcass I inevitably have something that looks like a box but has 2 or 3 square corners on it. Am I expecting to much from a pocket hole screw? No matter how many clamps I throw at the thing I still get pieces moving on me when I drive a screw in.

It seems odd to use a pocket hole when I could just pull out my doweling jig, take a little bit more time drilling holes, and when I'm done I don't have alignment issues.

I don't need to use them I just see them used in other projects and figured it was a quick way to throw shop furniture together. But I also like to use shop furniture as practice and so far I can't say I would use pocket holes for anything ever except face frames because I can't accurately join two panels on a 90.

It could just be me though so figured I'd see if im a complete nut case or others think these things are more trouble than they are worth at times.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

I use mine very situationally. The problems you mention I find to have on hard woods. They work great on soft wood. But even a hard piece of poplar can make it pop the clamps and gets off a smidge. I use it for face frames, cabinets, various construction/remodel types of things where they are hidden and don't have to account for movement etc. And they work great in construction lumber like doug fir.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

I hate pocket hole joinery. But I have used it for a few projects. Like you mentioned face joinery. I've found it useful for putting tops on free standing book cases. Nonetheless, I avoid pocket hole joinery as much as I can. It is the last resort I opt for.


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

Thanks SMP and Bob. I will admit I'm still new to woodworking and attempted to use them because of YouTube. I should stop assuming that just because a build "looks" good on YouTube doesnt mean its up to the standards I want for my own work.

Good thing that cabinet only used a 1/2 sheet of birch ply. I can remake it and break down the other one for a jig or something.


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## Underdog (Oct 29, 2012)

Seems like I read something or watched a video on pocket hole geometry. Some angles and setups are better than others at not pulling the joint out of alignment. If memory serves, a lower angle helps.

That said, I've not used them much outside of face frames.


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## CWWoodworking (Nov 28, 2017)

1. Use a drill instead of an impact. 
2. Be mindful of the angle. 
3. Get your drill as close to wood as possible. 
4. Slow Down feed rate.

If it has to be perfect, your gonna have to clamp.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

Good advice on not using impact driver and going slow.

You must always clamp things securely to avoid alignment issues. I built my shop cabinets and drawers with pocket screws. I made simple jigs to clamp things and worked great.

Like other tools, you have to learn how to use it and when to use it.

All of these were built with pocket screws and I have had no failures.of joints.


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

I've done several drawer boxes without issue using corner clamps. However cabinets are what seem to cause me trouble no matter how I clamp. I think a corner jig I can clamp to might come in handy for more than just pocket holes.

I use an impact for everything. Didn't know it made much of a difference if I keep it torqued down. I will give the drill a shot. I assume it gets the clutch set as well.


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## JackDuren (Oct 10, 2015)

If your going to pocket hole for shop cabinets,etc. You might try making a pocket hole jig. I've been trying to decide whether to make that a drop in at my tablesaw extension or a full size floor box….


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

The key is to clamp it TIGHT as heck. Corner clamps can help, too.

Next, when you run the screw in, that last bit to seat the screw is critical.

@CWW good tip on using a drill. You loose the feel for when the screw is seated with an impact.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

For corners I have one of these
https://www.kregtool.com/store/c46/corner-clamps/p461/90-corner-clamp/

And one of these I use in various situations , pockethole or not:

https://www.rockler.com/rockler-clamp-it-corner-clamping-jig


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## CWWoodworking (Nov 28, 2017)

Impacts are just not that precise. Lots of wobble in the bit.

Pocket holes, 5/8 pine ply and prefinished ply bottoms make a great drawer box.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Pocket holes are screw joinery, nothing else and nothing new. It's just a way to orient a screw so that it is can be hidden or to avoid screwing into end grain. That's it and that's how you use them. Hope that answers the OP. People who "hate" pocket holes are reacting emotionally to a technique.


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

> Impacts are just not that precise. Lots of wobble in the bit.
> 
> Pocket holes, 5/8 pine ply and prefinished ply bottoms make a great drawer box.
> 
> - CWWoodworking


I'm putting the impact away for my next attempt. Its one of my favorite tools but if it's an issue I can do without.

SMP - I ordered a couple of those clamps to give them a try.

From the replies I've deduced my issue down to improper clamping and using the impact. I agree with Woodknack that it should be simple but obviously it's not working like a normal screw joint for me.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

The other thing is practice and learn to use the jig.


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## Broglea (Dec 9, 2009)

I've experienced the same thing from time to time. If I can, I will shoot a pin or brad into the piece to hold it in place before I drive the pocket screw in.


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## Axis39 (Jul 3, 2019)

I dunno, I've used an impact driver and built hundreds of cabinet carcasses, faceframes, boxes, etc with them.

Using the Kreg brand clamps have been all I've ever needed. I have a pair of the old style, like these, but not as fancy… No cushy grips.

Rarely do I ever use any other clamps, or ever have to think about it. I just grab those bad boys, put one in a hole, get it lined up, adjust the grab/depth (if I have to), crank it down and grab the next clamp. Maybe I've learned, over the years, just how much pressure I need to get things to stay in place, without crushing the screw socket. But, it literally takes me seconds. Boxes and carcasses go together in minutes.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

I have the Kreg mini jig and use an impact driver. Which jig are you using and which screws are you using?


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

> I have the Kreg mini jig and use an impact driver. Which jig are you using and which screws are you using?
> 
> - corelz125


I have the Kreg K4 jig, use only Kreg brand screws, and use my Ridgid 18v brushless impact. I usually leave the impact on the middle setting and when it "hits" once I know the screw is driven home.

I'm not very mindful of the angle I have the impact at though which could be a big part of the problem.

Axis39 - I do have one of those clamps with the cushy grips but I've crushed some pocket holes with it so I kind of gave up on it. Probably worth my time getting a better feel for it and use it.


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## CWWoodworking (Nov 28, 2017)

I was specifically talking about un-clamped pieces. If there clamped, impact shouldn't be an issue.

I still like a drill better though. Just not enough "feel" for me with an impact. YMMV.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

With both pieces clamped tight I had no problems with everything staying aligned. When i tried to rush and only clamp one piece it would move on me.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

i use them whenever i make face frames for cabinets because it lets me get it done quickly without having to use use clamps.other than something like that i dont care for them.not something i ever use in making furniture.


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

I have the same issues with 90 degree butt joints. Face frames and the like, where I can clamp both pieces to the assembly table, seem to work fine. But stuff like drawers and such always pose a problem and I can never get it all square.

Even clamped as tight as I can get my clamps, the board with the pockets moves. It seems the force of the screw is stronger than the sheer strength of the clamps and they slip about 1/32"

I have found that running a rabbet along the edge of the non-pocketed piece will prevent the pocketed board from moving. So, if I'm using 3/4" ply, I'll run a 1/4" rabbet and use the 1/2" settings (and 1" course screws) on the jig. With some glue, that is a VERY strong joint. I use that for all of my wall hanging cabinets,


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

large,flat surface for assembly


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## Axis39 (Jul 3, 2019)

> Axis39 - I do have one of those clamps with the cushy grips but I ve crushed some pocket holes with it so I kind of gave up on it. Probably worth my time getting a better feel for it and use it.
> 
> - sansoo22


It will pay off in the long run, my friend! They really are the easiest solution.

I have an old Kreg kit. I dunno how long I've had it, but it's probably at least 15 years. I keep thinking I should upgrade to one of the newer kits.. But, the only thing I seem to wear out are the drill and screw bits. Although, I would wager I may be nearing the end of life on a couple of the bronze guide bushings…

I've gone through probably six or seven drill bits, at least. I've worn out easily as many square tip bits, probably twice as many, actually. I buy the Kreg stepped drill bits and the long Kreg square bits, and 98% of the time, Kreg Screws. I used them with my Dewalt driver, my Hilit driver and now with my Ridgid 18V driver.

I'ver also used it primarily with softwoods and plywood. For hardwoods, I tend to use other joints, except for face frames. Pocket hole screws are so easy when you have the feel down…


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