# Has Anyone Purchased a "Stop Block" set from MLCS



## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

I purchased a set of these stop blocks from MLCS. Item #9313 Supposedly they are to slide in a track and make a convenient adjustable stop block for cutting operations. What I found however is that if used the way it is designed, you are going to have to place the stop block on the right side of the blade meaning that your cut off piece is going to be pinched between the blade and the stop creating a kick back problem. Has anyone purchased one of these? I think this was a special purchase of a "design gone wrong" item from China. I've written to MLCS and seem to be getting the run around. I would appreciate any comments as to my perhaps not using them correctly. Does anyone else do business with MLCS and remember seeing the email from them offering this item.

Thanks


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## emart (Mar 16, 2011)

what machine is this being used on? i dont own the stop blocks but it might help other who do to know that


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## sonnyr (Jul 28, 2012)

I purchased a "Router Circle Jig #9333 " from them in mid January 2013 and didn't have any problems. I must not be on their email list since I haven't received any offers from them. The "2 Piece Flip Stop Set
#9313….........................................$12.95 " does not have any ratings on it yet so maybe you can be the first. Maybe that might get some attention. Have you tried their "Live help" yet? The only way I ever see it is in an "I'm OFFLINE, Leave message" status.


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

Sonnyr, I have not checked to see if they put up my review, but in it I stated the same things I mentioned here. If I remember correctly, the offer just indicated cut off operations which would indicate it was to be used on a table saw and that is what I purchased it for. I noticed that the packaging had been altered with a stick on that just gave the words "MLCS Item #9313". Under that and affixed over the original package verbiage is written "#120306 STOP BLOCK Use for Double T-Track" I can't find that "Double T-Track" anywhere. Under that label the original package says, "Powr Tool Guide Stop, USE: Simple stop provides repeatable lingth cuts on many boards for accurate recessing or routing"


> ?


??

I thought perhaps it is used to make blind channels on a router, but both the stops are identical and therefore will not crate a right and a left stop for that operation.

I know I could just send it back and get a refund, but for the $12.95, it is not worth the trouble. I exchanged several emails with them but, as I said before, either they could not understand what I was trying to say or they are just trying to get around it. I even mentioned that if someone tries to use that on the right hand side of the blade, they could get hurt by a kickback.

Am I making any sense to you guys?


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Here's the link to the product page for the stop
the OP ppurchased:

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/ttrack.html?zoom_highlight=9313

It's possible this product is an MLCS version of the stop 
system I designed for my panel saw. I'm sure the
designers at those woodworking suppliers prowl forums
for new product ideas.

Here's my system described in quite a bit of detail:
http://lumberjocks.com/Loren/blog/32129

How I would use that for crosscutting on a table saw is
by surface mounting the track on a cut off box. The
track would serve as your fence to butt the work
against.


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

Loren, That blue track you used could be the answer. As I said before, the packaging does mention that it is supposed to be used with a "Double Track". What you used may be what they are talking about. I am going to head over to Woodline to see if I can find it.

Thanks.

Nice set up by the way.


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## JustJoe (Oct 26, 2012)

I'm confused as to what you thought it would do when you bought it, and on what tool? 
According to the website, it's on the bottom of an entire page devoted to t-track and accessories. You can purchase their t-track, and their accessories, and make yourself all sorts of jigs. Put a T-Track in a fence for your router table, and you can put these flip-up stops on the t-track. Then you can make stopped dadoes on multiple boards that all stop at the same spot. If you put a t-track on an aux.fence for your tablesaw miter gauge, you can use one of these flip stops to crosscut cut a bunch of different boards to the same length. 
I can't picture where on anything with a blade you would put it that would make something pinch. Are you trying to use both of them together? There is a left and a right, but you only use one at a time depending on which direction on which tool you're coming from. Maybe a pic of what you're trying to do?


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

JustJoe

Look at the picture. These stops are made so that the stop has to be on the right side of the workpiece. They won't work if they are on the left.

The usual use for stop blocks on a table saw is on a crosscut sled or on a miter gauge extension. If you put this stop block on the right, it's on the waste side and holds the offcut trapped between the blade and the stop. Typically, you use a stop on the left side. You can't do that with this item.

Of course, I think these stops are too short to be useful on most sleds or miter gauge extensions. The fence height is usually 4" or more. These don't look long enough to be useful.

You have a better shot using them on a router table, but only to stop the end of the cut. You couldn't use them to control the start of a cut. You have the same problem with the fence height.

Other than the length, you could use them on a drill press table. Typically you can set the stop on either side for most tasks.


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## JustJoe (Oct 26, 2012)

I did look at the picture - there are two stops in the picture and they're a bookmatched pair, left and right. One for each side of the blade, you flip down or install/use the one you want to use. 
And on my tablesaw there are two miter gauge slots - one on the right, one on the left of the blade. The right hand side isn't necessarily the "waste" side. If I drop a miter gauge in the right hand side, the left of the blade is the waste side. If I put the miter gauge in the left-side slot, then the right side of the blade is the waste side. Or am I missing something else?
EDIT: They are made to fit in a a t-track, which in turn is installed in a board you provide, at a height you desire to fit your needs. That board is then attached to the front of your miter gauge - so miter gauge height isn't a limitation. You can also put the t-track on the front lip of a miter sled that you build yourself, or you can put it on the router fence that you built yourself.


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

AndyP said:
I thought perhaps it is used to make blind channels on a router, but both the stops are identical and therefore will not crate a right and a left stop for that operation.


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

Joe…...I understand what you are saying but I think you are not understanding what I am saying. The problem is that there is NOT a right and left stop. They are both identical and can only be used as a stop on the right hand side of the blade. If you use it that way, once the piece is cut throuth it is still against the blade and also against the stop. Yes. I purchased a length of their T-track and the little plastic retainer that should fit between the shoulders of the T-stop slot to keep the flip stop from pivoting, will not fit into the opening of their T-tracks.

Regarding routing stopped dados or slots…..again, there is no left and right Flip Stop. They are both identical. I have made many stopped dados and always use stop blocks with clamps. The key is that there is not a right and a lift. Sorry you are not understanding me, but I appreciate your input.


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

BRTECH…..............thanks. Exactly! You are right about their length, but I figured it would suit me in most cases. I'm getting moved out of my shop from all the Jig storage…..LOL


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

Sorry, Joe…......They are identical…..not right and left!!! I'll approace MCSL again. Maybe this whole thing is as simple as the fact that they were packaged incorrectly. I'll let you know if I get a response from them.


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## peterbb (Feb 20, 2012)

It seems to me that whichever side of the blade you place the stop, the piece that is cut off will be between the stop and the blade, so I don't see the problem (or perhaps there is no solution to the supposed problem).


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## hotbyte (Apr 3, 2010)

Picture on website definitely shows a left & right "pair" of stops. Maybe your set got packaged wrong?

peterbb - I think the point is if your miter gauge is in left slot pushing stock then the cut-off would be to the right side between blade and stop. Seems like use the "right side" stop would simply mean putting miter guage in the right hand miter slot. Or, on a full width sled where it wouldn't matter.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

The stop can be used going either way I think… it's 
probably bent so you can glue a tape right next to
your t-track and set the stop by setting the edge
of the stop (either end) right on the mark on your
tape.


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## LeeBarker (Aug 6, 2010)

I can't imagine using something like this on a TS.

These stops are the kind used on line boring machines or euro hinge boring machines, set so the operation is always the same distance from one end of the work or the other.

They could be used on a router table for a kiss and run type cut.

And, either way, they would indeed need to be a right and a left.

Kindly,

Lee


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## mrg (Mar 10, 2010)

If this is attached to a miter gauge for cross cutting you will have no problem. The cut off drops off on the left side. You use the right side of the blade. It is the same principle as using a cross cut sled, you can work on either side.

On a router table you would run the board to the stop.

MLCS has the support people on line during regular business hours 9 to 5. They are easy to work with. They probably packaged these wrong.


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

hotbyte….....That's it!!!! I never noticed it before. I matched up the pair I got with the picture on the web site. I can't do it. The two stops I have are exactly the same. I'll get with MLCS in the morning. Thanks for noticing that.


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## hotbyte (Apr 3, 2010)

You're welcome Andy, but JustJoe had actually first pointed it out at end of one of his posts. I just reiterated it


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

You are right, hotbyte. I was not reading what he was saying correctly. When you pointed out that the picture on the MLCS web site showed a rt and a left, it told me that the package I got was not packed correctly by the manufacturer. I do appreciate alll the comments.

I'm waiting for a response from MLCS. I'm sure they will make good on it now that I have sent them a picture showing that I received a mis packed item. My only problem is that they will want me to send them back the package I got and I'm not sure it is worth the time and expense. Seems to me they should just bite the bullet and send me a right hand stop…....we'll see.


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## mprzybylski (Nov 21, 2011)

I've had an issue with an mlcs order before that was kind of my fault and they fixed it no problem with no charges to me. I'm sure they will do the same for you, so far they seem like a good company.

As a side note I also purchased these for use on my drill press fence and am now going to check to make sure I got the correct set 

EDIT: Just confirmed, got two that face right (so on a DP fence they'd have to sit on the left side of the chuck). Maybe our orders got mixed up  I'm going to contact them now as well.


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## mprzybylski (Nov 21, 2011)

Just spoke with MLCS on the phone and with no questions asked they are sending out a new one to me that will hopefully have the correct orientation.

Andy, I mentioned the forum and that you had contacted them as well and told them you had the issue so hopefully they treat you with the same coverage i got.


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

I probably should have used the phone, but I like email because I can send them pictures to illustrate what I am saying. I did get an email debating about the pictures in the catalog, and looking at them again, perhaps they are the same. They also sent me another email saying that they are issuing me store credit because I am not happy, but they will not understand what we are saying that those two pieces should be opposing pieces. Maybe your call will force someone to look into it with open minds. If you got two left hand pieces, it is obvious that the people that packaged that item did not realize or were not told that there are two different pieces that go into the package.

Hotbyte….....I don't get it! I swear after you wrote your piece and I looked at the picture again, they looked like two different pieces in the catalog. Check it out again…..they are the same.


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## hotbyte (Apr 3, 2010)

Hope this isn't breaking any rules here, but I copied the image off to my local computer and have pasted it below. It is still showing what, to me, appears to be a left and a right. Is this the stop blocks you have and the picture you see on the link above posted by Loren?


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## muleskinner (Sep 24, 2011)

Those two stops appear to me to be exactly the same. On one the stop is flipped up on the other the stop is flipped down.


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## hotbyte (Apr 3, 2010)

Well, blow me down! I see that now  Maybe posting the picture will at least make the situation a little clearer than mud


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## JustJoe (Oct 26, 2012)

well when I looked at it last night I was in the midst of a 6-bottle root-beer high and they looked like two different pieces. But seeing it today it looks like both pieces in that pic are the same. There is that curved portion on the black part of each one. So orienting those in the same direction in my sugar-addled mind, it looks like the one that is not on the track has the flipper in the up position, and the one on the track has the flipper in the down position. If I slowly move the flipper on the left in my mind it ends up looking like the one on the right. So that would make them the same. But why would MLCS sell them as a pair then if they were two of the same, unless they expected you to lose one or didn't want to try and charge $6.50 plus postage for such a little gizmo?
I don't know…


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

That is it, Hotbyte. I know….it takes some real mind twisting to see this. Those two are identical. I'm going to try and post a couple of pictures that I took with the stops installed in a track. Maybe between Matt and I we have stirred things up at MLCS.

I truly think that MLCS has a packaging problem created by their supplier.


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## muleskinner (Sep 24, 2011)

That's ok Joe. I'd hate to have anyone go through my scrap bin and see all the pieces with backward cut miters.


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## mprzybylski (Nov 21, 2011)

So I just got a call back from MLCS and spoke with one of their woodworking gentlemen (not the nicest person I have ever spoken to when we began talking, probably frustrated that we couldn't see it was the same item, but nonetheless) and he confirmed what everyone here has now realized. It is the same piece. I stated that it seems like it should be two different pieces as you all have surmised because once you flip it 180 degrees the stopper (thats on the right piece in the pic) is no longer against the t-track rather it's angled and no longer touching the stop (I haven't even tested this yet and am curious to see if it'll go all the way down or be interfered with by the t-track side) but he basically told me that if I wasn't satisfied I could return it. :\

I think they're still usable (without the test I mentioned above) but would have liked to see them swing in the opposite direction from the get go as I think that'd make them more useful. All in all, though, it's $13 and I'm not going to cry about it


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## hotbyte (Apr 3, 2010)

That really is odd how they are paired with an exact match…some weird reason makes me think of the Friends episode where Joey found his exact hand twin. Maybe I had too much of JustJoe's root beer recently


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

Ditto, muleskinner! I measure three times and still end up cutting twice…..three times.


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## mprzybylski (Nov 21, 2011)

And of course Andy was posting exactly what I described while I was posting that long post 

From the pics it seems the one that angles down (third pic, right side), the bolt that holds the metal into the black portion would interfere with anything that goes up against the stop as it is not flush with the metal part and it indeed does stick out over the edge of the t-track. So, if you push something up against it in this orientation, you won't get an accurate measure as it will hit the bold head first before ever hitting the stop. Am I not correct in that assumption?


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

Rick: Your reasoning for the two identical pieces makes some sense and I can buy that, BUT…..why is the stop made so it is on the right instead of the left of the blade as you NORMALLY set up for repetative cuts. And, why, if I remember right, did Matt get two left hand stops and I got two right hand stops. Isn't that right Matt?


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## mprzybylski (Nov 21, 2011)

No, sorry for confusion Andy, but I got the same set as you.


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## muleskinner (Sep 24, 2011)

I may be missing something (no surprise to those that know me) but I usually cut my workpiece on the right side of the blade with the cutoff on the left so for a repetitive length stop those blocks would be oriented correctly. If it is kickback that is the concern (which I think your miter or sled fence and clamping prevents), right side or left side you still have a piece of wood captive between the blade and the stop.


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## mprzybylski (Nov 21, 2011)

For me I bought these for use on my drill press table fence. Picture a fence like that of Andy's third picture with just a t track and the two stops. Now, I set up to drill hinge holes for let's say a forstner bit. I would set one stop on the left of the chuck and one on the right. I flip the right one up and put my door against the left stop, drill my hole, flip the left stop up and flip the right stop down. I would then push the door up against the right stop and drill my hole. This makes for a nice repetitive system for drilling multiple doors.

The issue here is that when I flip the right stop down and want to push my door up against the stop, from Andy's picture it looks like the bolt that holds the metallic stop to the black body sticks out over the edge of the t track thus making it impossible to push my door up against the flip stop properly. Does that make sense?


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

OK, Matt. I guess that tears it then. Yeah, I just got an email from MLCS so I guess that is it. I still say their suppliers messed up on this but they have no way of getting out of it. Did your package come with a label covering the original print copy on the cardboard?

I usually make my cuts so that the piece I am shooting for is on the left of the blade and is secured by the fact that I have my hands on it. I guess if I intend to use these stops, I will have to start using the right side of my blade as the target piece as suggested by muleskinner.

Interesting situation though. I just hope that some novice does not try and use that stop to the right of the blade while pushing the stock through on the left. I still think a kickback is waiting to happen.

Nice discussing this with all you guys. Thanks for all the responses.


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

No, you are right, Matt. There is no way you can use both stops as the text in there offer states. I don't care what they say. Take a look if you can under the stick on label that is probably on your package covering the originla text on the package. It talks about the use of the item is for blind dadoes and such. To do that, they would have to be opposing stops.


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## muleskinner (Sep 24, 2011)

Andy, don't change your ways just because of the bassackwards way I do things.  After reading Matt's last reply and looking at your pictures again I'm having trouble picturing how I'd use those things on a table saw. The only way I see to use them with a miter gauge or a sled is to mount the t-track on top of your fence but the tabs are so damn short that they'd be useless for anything that doesn't have a dimension almost as high as your fence. On the sled I use, for instance, anything under 4 inches wouldn't reach.


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

You got it, muleskinner. Exactly! Those things are just wrong. I'm not going to pursue it though. At least they gave me store credit. I think their manufacturer screwed up and MLCS got taken too. You just can't do what they were supposedly designed to do. I'lll probably find some way to used them though.


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## hotbyte (Apr 3, 2010)

Straighten out or cut off the little lip on the stop and then attach a piece of hardwood to extend the length of the stop. You could then probably use them from either side with the t track mounted on top of a taller fence.


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

Yeah. I'll play around with it. I think Woodline has a fence that has a top track but I think the space is not right to fit the little plastic lug that is on the stops.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

Can you punch out the rivet and put the stop on the other side? Just a thought.


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## mprzybylski (Nov 21, 2011)

Bondo Gaposis: That was my thought as well but I have no idea how to punch it out :\ If I could reverse one of these they'd be PERFECT for my use.


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

I gave that some thought too. I might be able to drill out the rivet and replace it with a nut and bold arrangment. Not sure if a protruding nut or bold head would affect it, but probably worth a try since they are identical right now.


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

For Just Joe I have never had MLCS charge postage on anything.

I agree they both are identical and don't see how they could operate as opposites.

I have stops for both of my Incra 25's but really I just use a block of wood and an Fclamp on my sleds.Works right or left.


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

I just reread a couple of my posts. I do know the difference between a BOLT and being BOLD…...just in case any of you noticed that.

MLCS does not charge shipping but they do not cover returned merchandise…..if that is what you meant…....at least I don't think they do.

I'll bet MLCS and this Forum wishes that I would have stuck to "F" stop clamps and wood blocks…....LOL


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

*I'll bet MLCS and this Forum wishes that I would have stuck to "F" stop clamps and wood blocks…….LOL*
Frankly I think you contributed a valuable thread. Much more than some of the off topic ones.(yeah I know folks if you don't like them don't read them, that's been beat to death too)


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

If that is for real, James, I'll buy one from you but I have a hunch that is a good CGI (Comuter Generated Image) job. Good one though.


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

I'm with you, James. Sometimes after a project about all I can expect is a llaugh. I love joking and sometimes my wife accuses me of taking it too far. There is not a mean intent in any of it.

HEY, to all of you. I just got back in from the shop exploring the posibilty of drilling out the rivet that the stops swivel on with the hopes of reversing it and getting a right and a left stop…..............It won't work. No mater from which side you have the flat "stop" part, it will always be reversed. The reason is the angle at which the bottom part of the stop is oriented to.

I have come up with anolther posibiity and I think it was touched on by some other post in this grand epistle. I'm thinking of sawing off the latteral bottom portion of one of the stops thereby leaving me with a straight arm that will stick out from the fence. I may even do that to both the stops and thereby have two universal stops. I'll study it more and get back to you. Any thoughts you may have will be welcome.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I don't see why the stop wouldn't work on both sides. It
still has bearing surfaces you can butt stock against. They
are merely differently shaped. Just fill in the "elbow" 
with a piece of wood if the shape of the stop 
bothers you.


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

You are right about that, Loren. I just went out and looked at it with your idea in mind and I think it will work. I'll just use some of that gorilla glue or Krazy Glue type stuff to make the wood plug a permanent part of the stop. Any comments from the rest of you besides….."Why did't I think of that?"


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

These look like they would work well on a TS Sled like the one I built from plans published from someone else. I ran T-track not only on the face of the rear fence but on top as well. I have stops on both sides as well as on the adjustable fences. Just a thought…

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/57667


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

wow, that is some sled, Horizon!!! Really looks like some nice accurate work. I bet those would work on your slec because you have a multitude of tracking. You have to remember though, unless the changes discussed earlier are made, you will not have a flat surface to butt up against on the left side…...I think. but with that sled of yours I think the possibilities are almost endless. Nice work!


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

No big deal and hardly worth all the discussion but I went ahead and used Gorilla Glue to attach a small piece of hardwood to the angle in what is now the left side flip stop. It gives me a lot surface area to butt up against. I guess we will put this topic to bed. Thanks for all the input, suggestions and conversations.


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## hotbyte (Apr 3, 2010)

Nice solution


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

I still can't see why you couldn't butt your workpiece against the end of the horizontal bend without adding the extra wood. It is clearly raised enough off the surface that slipping shouldn't be an issue. Seems like a no-brainer , but then again , some folks couldn't see that the pieces were identical in the pic from MLCS. It is sold as a 2 piece set , not listed as Left and Right stops : )
Count your blessings that they gave you credit even though they aren't at fault : ) Have a great weekend , Andy !


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## andy_P (Aug 13, 2009)

You are right on all counts, Dusty. MLCS is a good outfit to work with.


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