# Advice on Polyurethane Brand (Tweaks? Alternatives?) for Kitchen Counters?



## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

It's time to refinish my kitchen counter tops … all are hard maple (one is birch) butcher block.

Previously I've used:
a.) Conversion varnish sprayed. Satin. Lasted about 12 years. Strong finish, looked great, however after an accidental exposure to this stuff (mistook one respirator filter for another) I decided I do not want to use it due to its toxicity and some chemical sensitization. For that reason I'm ruling this out.
b.) I've used Minwax Satin Polyurethane ('Fast Drying') in the past on a couple counter tops. It seems to have been durable enough although those counters were not extremely high wear areas. I'm not especially thrilled with the look. It's a little too much sheen for my tastes and looks plasticky.
c.) On common recommendation for a flatter finish, I bought a quart of General Finishes High Performance Water Based Top Coat, Flat (expensive). I did some tests and I find it's too flat. I'm not a fan of this look. (Maybe the paleness of the wood contributed to the displeasure … no grain popping whatsoever and 'flat' in all respects). I do have a collection of water base and aniline dyes… perhaps I could have applied these under the finish and got a more pleasing look? In addition to not liking the look and dismissing it on that basis, I also wonder about how tough and durable this finish is over the years in high use areas …. I'm skeptical despite the glowing claims.

For this application durability and performance comes first: I'm not a fan of countertops that require special care or treatment and I don't want to have to be worrying about the counters. I want them to have the ability to withstand wear and tear, to take abuse by folks who will not be as careful with wood counters as I am (potential exposure to mindless dolts who could care less about 'wood or finishes'), not needing delicate handling or special care in order to not damage it, to be easily/effortlessly cleaned & maintained (no maintenance finishes of oils/waxes/etc.). But I still want it to look nice.

I've pretty much accepted that I'll use a solvent based polyurethane brushed on (unless there's some other suggestions) due to acceptable ease of application, performance, and familiarity. I've done this before. 
*Are there any differences in various brands of solvent based polyurethanes or are they all pretty much the same as the Minwax?*
Are there any satin polyurethanes with a little less sheen than the Minwax?

Which ever finish I use I'll likely use the same product for all the coats (rather than a base of gloss followed by a coat with less sheen) because if the finish wears to reveal the lower coats I'd want to prevent glossy areas from appearing.

Any ideas?
Or should I just resign myself to using the Satin Minwax and live with the look in exchange for the durability?

Oh yeah … is there any aesthetic benefit to using a coat of oil finish first under the polyurethane for grain popping? (OK, I realize maple doesn't have much grain to pop). Or will it be redundant under the poly?

Thanks a bunch for any input!


----------



## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

I really don't have enough experience, especially with a wood countertop, to make a brand recommendation but to answer your question about whether solvent based polys vary by brand the answer is yes. I think that the solids content for one thing may be different from brand to brand so they will likely perform differently. I know that General Finishes for example provides both solids content and durability in their specs that you can see here. BTW, did you look at the GF Enduro line of finishes? I also wonder if the GF Pro Image floor finish for example would work on a countertop? It seems like a finish designed to be walked on would be about as durable as you can get in a one component finish.

I can also tell you from a recent experience that the Minwax and Varathane brands are very different. The Varathane poly not only took longer to cure but also seemed much softer to me than the Minwax once it did. It might even out after a few weeks but after a few days, I was still not happy with the Varathane.

Also, I don't think that a coat of an oil finish is compatible under most water based poly. If you use an oil based poly that should not be necessary anyway. You could try to do a trace coat with a dye to pop the grain under a WB or oil based poly but unless you have a piece to practice on, you might not like the results.


----------



## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

> I really don t have enough experience, especially with a wood countertop, to make a brand recommendation but to answer your question about whether solvent based polys vary by brand the answer is yes. I think that the solids content for one thing may be different from brand to brand so they will likely perform differently. I know that General Finishes for example provides both solids content and durability in their specs that you can see here. BTW, did you look at the GF Enduro line of finishes? I also wonder if the GF Pro Image floor finish for example would work on a countertop? It seems like a finish designed to be walked on would be about as durable as you can get in a one component finish.
> 
> I can also tell you from a recent experience that the Minwax and Varathane brands are very different. The Varathane poly not only took longer to cure but also seemed much softer to me than the Minwax once it did. It might even out after a few weeks but after a few days, I was still not happy with the Varathane.
> 
> ...


I haven't looked at the GF Enduro or their floor finishes.

What you write about solids content makes sense. My background is in fine art painting and regarding linseed oils alone there's an enormous range of products based on ingredients, chemical and/or heat processing, refinement, additives, acid content, color, film hardness, sheen, leveling, darkening over time, solvents, driers, drying rate, etc., etc. I was hoping some might have experience with other manufacturer's blends of polyurethane suitable for countertops.

I do have a large part of a gallon can of polyurethane that a flooring guy once gave me after refinishing some floors and those floors had darkened so much over the years that I've never dared use it for anything else (and those floors have been refinished once again since with a medium-darkish stain plus Bona Traffic waterborne finish … which gives about the same tone as the aged poly).

Good to get your feedback on Minwax vs. Varathane, thanks. In fact that was the initial incentive to post this thread as my Home Depot only sells Varathane (no more Minwax) so I bought a quart of satin … but was reluctant to use it only insofar as it's an unknown entity.

Regarding a coat of oil under water base poly, for ex. the Bona Traffic waterbase finished floors I mentioned above were treated first with Bona DriFast Stain (oil-modified resins + mineral spirits + pigments) liberally applied & allowed to penetrate then wiped off, allowed to dry overnight … and the next day the first coat of water base poly went on. All products by the same manufacturer and recommended for use together.

Anyone whave experience with other solvent polyurethanes they can recommend?


----------



## LesB (Dec 21, 2008)

Since you are "refinishing" a counter that has already had a hard finish applied to it it is too late to just go with an oil finish (on butcher block). So I go with the idea of using one of the water based polyurethane floor finishes. About 4 coats should do and in my experience is it best applied with a brush at temperatures close to 70 degrees to give it time to level out before it starts to dry and cure. 
Good luck


----------



## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

Hi Les,
The butcher block counter tops will be removed and thoroughly sanded on all surfaces to remove all previous finishes. I don't understand your comment regarding the prohibition of it being 'too late' for oil finishes can you elaborate please? For ex. many solvent based polyurethanes include oil in the formulation. And if the wood is prepped carefully/sanded completely why would it not successfully accept a finish with oil in the formulation either as a penetrating finish or surface coating? I'm not following … am I misunderstanding something?

I really don't want to use a water base poly, I'm skeptical that it'll have the qualities I need for the heaviest used surface in my home except for the workbench (it's a shoeless home so the floors don't get the same abuse as my main countertop):

-scratch resistance
-water resistance
-chemical and alcohol resistance (acidic foods, wine, beverages, etc)
-resistance to cleansers

At this point I'm leaning towards the use of Minwax satin polyurethane brushed on. I'm going to return the Varathane which I'd planned on doing when I posted this thread and based oil your input Lazyman.

If anyone has experience with a solvent based satin brush-on polyurethane which they have reason to believe is superior to Minwax, please post up your recommendation/experience.


----------



## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

IMHO - Stop shopping at BORG or local wood working for serious finishing supplies. 
When your house was built did your builder go to Walmart to buy house paint?

Visit a commercial wholesale wood finishes supplier. 
Don't know any?
Look for local distributor of Mohawk, Sherwin Williams, Sikkens, ML Campnell, Bona, PPG, AkzoNobel, Gemini, Milesi, etc. Everyone of these folks makes/sells commercially used, KCMA rated finishes for kitchen environment.

There are so many new water based (WB) polyurethane clear finishes in market, it is impossible to know what is current 'best'. Your local commercial supplier will know what all the local EPA compliant shops are using in WB materials, and can provide a plethora of choices in KCMA rated finishes for your kitchen counters.

Note: 
I asked the 'most durable counter top finish' question to my local finishing supplier 3-4 years ago, and they said none of the water base finishes were capable of protecting a kitchen counter as if it was a commercial bar top. There were a couple of 2 part WB finishes that might be OK for lightly used home kitchen, but WB is not as durable as solvent systems. Period. 
At time, they recommended an old school Lorchem 2K Poly bar top finish. It's nasty stuff. Requires full body overalls, filtered mask and googles, IE Maximum PPE; but it's extremely hard to damage and top of line protection for counter top, like in restaurant or bar. Gave me a wonderful finish on a commission table.

Was chatting with same folks a couple weeks ago about latest advancements, and was informed some shops are switching to latest water based conversion coatings. Claiming the durability has increased to 99% as good as EPA unfriendly solvent systems. Maybe your local wholesale supplier will have same recommendation?

Once last comment: Picking the right finish is only half the challenge. Surface prep, proper sealing of grain, and application method are a big part of creating a durable finish.

Best Luck.


----------



## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

> IMHO - Stop shopping at BORG or local wood working for serious finishing supplies.
> When your house was built did your builder go to Walmart to buy house paint?
> 
> Visit a commercial wholesale wood finishes supplier.
> ...


I know a commercial paint and varnish store that handles the brands you mention. But I'm not sure what advantage their brushable polyurethane will have. ... which is why I was asking here.

I want to be clear that I'm not in the least interested in using a finish that produces toxic vapors or off gassing more hazardous than petroleum solvents no matter how superior they are in durability, cure time, water/scratch resistance, etc. whether they be solvent or water based.

I've no issue using a solvent base finish. Brushing solvent base poly is a known entity and I have the brush skills to lay down a smooth finish without the more involved production of having to engage my spray rig. Brushing would require much less than a quart of product.

The ML Campbell conversion varnish I'd used on a previous counter top (as well as other furniture including my kitchen table where it lasted a little over a decade) looked great (satin), shot easy, cured quickly, and was durable (and like many such finishes not easily repaired). I hope to never use it again due to toxicity. There's a lot of great finishes available with the downside of toxic chemistry … I hope to avoid ever using them (even with my supplied air rig). No thank you. From a single exposure I've become sensitized to a degree … sometimes I can smell chemistry/off gassing for example inside a drawer and it registers in my lungs. I just don't need those chemicals in my life as there's other ways to finish a kitchen counter.

Walmart didn't exist when my place was built. It was painted with lead in oil … which btw I wish one could buy at Walmart. A one quart can of basic lead carbonate paste in linseed oil with a little titanium white pigment and some white chalk (artist grade ground or 'primer') goes for $80-$90 or even much more. In the 80s it could be had for $15 or less. IMHO no pigment can rival basic lead carbonate, the best stuff made in the traditional stack process for ex. using horse manure (these days stack lead white cost significantly more than the industrially produced lead carbonate):


----------



## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Since the tops can be removed and you have spray equipment, I'd go with a pre-cat lacquer. Sherwin Williams or Mohawk are good choices depend on availability and price.

It's durable, easy to spray and will be low odor enough to bring back into the house in a few hours or the next day.


----------



## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

> Since the tops can be removed and you have spray equipment, I d go with a *pre-cat lacquer*. Sherwin Williams or Mohawk are good choices depend on availability and price.
> 
> It s durable, easy to spray and will be low odor enough to bring back into the house in a few hours or the next day.
> 
> - Rich


Are we talking formaldehyde here?


----------



## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Are we talking formaldehyde here?
> 
> - Lovegasoline


No formaldehyde. Lacquer-pre-cat, CAB or NC-will give off very little odor after a day or two. As you probably know, poly, and other urethane finishes, give off odor until they are fully cured-often several weeks. They also aren't fully hardened for use until then.

Pre-cat lacquer will be hard enough to do light work on, like setting up dishes, etc, in just a couple of days. The product data sheet for Sherwin William Hi-Bild pre-cat says maximum cure and chemical resistance is achieved after 10 days of air drying.


----------



## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

Is it superior to solvent Polyurethane as regards:

-scratch resistance
-water resistance
-chemical and alcohol resistance (acidic foods, wine, beverages, etc)
-resistance to cleansers

???

I have temporary countertops (2 already installed in use) so hardening time isn't critical … of course speedier full cure time is desirable but not at the expense of the above listed qualities.


----------



## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

Rich you must be in a good mood. Very patient.
I thought the Op comes across as pushy and demanding.


----------



## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Is it superior to solvent Polyurethane as regards:
> 
> -scratch resistance
> -water resistance
> ...


Yes, yes, yes and yes. Here is a bit from the data sheet for the SW product:

Performance Tests:
Household Chemicals Test
Using ANSI-KCMA A161.1-2012 test procedures, panels were cured by air drying and allowed to age 10 days at ambient conditions before testing. Tests were conducted on self-sealed (2 coat) finished panels at 2.0 mils total DFT. Materials were washed off with clear water after 24 hours and allowed to recover for 10 days then the finish was examined and the following results noted: 
Vinegar…................................................no effect 
Lemon Juice…........................................no effect 
Orange Juice….......................................no effect 
Grape Juice….........................................no effect 
Tomato Catsup …...................................no effect 
Coffee @ 115° F ….................................no effect 
Olive Oil …..............................................no effect 
100 Proof Alcohol…................................no effect 
Water & Detergent …..............................no effect 
Mustard (1 hour) ....................................no effect 
Cold Checks 20 cycles…............................. Pass 
Edge Soak …............................................... Pass


----------



## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

Rich,
Have you used the Sherwin William Hi-Bild pre-cat? Would you use it for a bar top or high use tabletop?
If it's water white what sort of stain do you use under it?

Btw I'm seeing this on the SDS:
Isobutylated Urea-Formaldehyde Polymer


----------



## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Rich,
> Have you used the Sherwin William Hi-Bild pre-cat? Would you use it for a bar top or high use tabletop?
> If it s water white what sort of stain do you use under it?
> 
> ...


Send me a link. The SDS I'm looking at mentions no formaldehyde. The link is below. It's not for the Hi-Bild, but their regular pre-cat. Just as durable, but lower solids.

https://www.sherwin-williams.com/document/SDS/en/035777709146/US/


----------



## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

> Rich you must be in a good mood. Very patient.
> I thought the Op comes across as pushy and demanding.
> 
> - Aj2


Hi Aj2,
I'm from NYC, lol.
I don't think I've been pushy: is anyone here feeling pushed?

Demanding … umm …maybe … (?)

demanding | dəˈmandiNG |
adjective
(of a task) requiring much skill or effort: she has a busy and demanding job.
• (of a person) making others work hard or meet high standard.†

What's the point of having a forum and sharing info if we're not going to expect a high standard in the intercourse, from ourselves and others … and ask what questions arise in the process? 
If one doesn't have something to contribute or the inclination to post, then that's perfectly fine with me (covers about 99.99% of the members regarding this thread). 
If one has exhausted the quality or quantity of their contributions, that too is fine (some people drop out and others drop in, until it goes idle and perhaps unexpectedly revisited in the future … normal). 
If members have the technical knowledge and/or experience and wish to share … that's part of the core value of the forum. Anything that encourages or contributes to high standards is valuable. 
Otherwise - if I'm *un*demanding - and don't push for a quality answer I can always go to Home Depot and ask a clerk what finish I should use.

I'm grateful for all the replies and appreciative too for the criticism of being demanding.

I don't 'demand' that anyone post up. Just to be clear, everyone is free to bail out of this thread whenever they wish, no demands are being made by me, no one is obligated to talk finishes here, there's no pressure so don't feel yourself being pushed (I am trying to stimulate the discourse however) ... if you are offended and feeling pushed about, please don't. I don't intend this in a pushy way … so don't let me push you into feeling unpushed. This thread welcomes with open arms and solicitude those who feel pushed. I might even be able to push some folks if that's their thing please request (some folks like an agnostic interchange).

† PS: keep an eye out for when I (re)post about sourcing hinges ; )


----------



## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

> Rich,
> Have you used the Sherwin William Hi-Bild pre-cat? Would you use it for a bar top or high use tabletop?
> If it s water white what sort of stain do you use under it?
> 
> ...


SDS T77F57
SHER-WOOD® Hi-BildTM Precat Lacquer Medium Rubbed Effect
https://www.paintdocs.com/docs/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=SWOEM&lang=E&doctype=SDS&prodno=T77F57

(on page 3 of 19)
Is this the same product you referenced?
(I admit I did a very cursory perusal).


----------



## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> (on page 3 of 19)
> 
> - Lovegasoline


The percentage is minute, but only you can decide if it's a factor in your decision. There are clearly pre-cat lacquer options that don't list formaldehyde at all.

While the lacquer would still be my first recommendation, if you want to stick with urethane finishes, you really can't go wrong with products like Arm-R-Seal or Waterlox. Each has different characteristics, but you are obviously knowledgeable enough to weigh the options.

Best of luck and let us know what you decide, and please post some photos of the result.

I'm sure you'll nail it whichever choice you make.


----------



## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Rich you must be in a good mood. Very patient.
> I thought the Op comes across as pushy and demanding.
> 
> - Aj2


He was perfectly polite to me. I do see that he was spoken to in one post in a pretty condescending way, and for me, all bets are off at that point. I wouldn't have been polite responding to that either.


----------



## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

LOL, thanks for laugh. NY style, always direct in your face and thinking it's normal. 
Guess that is why they always call each other jerks? 

*First: * 
Rich decided to step into the direct suggestion territory that I thought was so-so idea based on the tone of this thread, my reading between lines on the conflicting requirements, and OP existing experience. 
> *Rich* you have my admiration for trying.  
BTW - I agree with Rich, the SW pre-cat CAB lacquer would be one of the better solvent based lacquer options for the OP. It is/has been used in many furniture shops for dining tables due favorable KCMA ratings.

*Second:*
IME selecting a finish is always a compromise. You always have to give up something, as NO finish is perfect in every requirement.

Been involved in polymer materials development off/on for over 30 years. The OP high level of skittishness on chemistry and sensitivity issues preclude use of ALL the solvent based chemistries I have used, or am aware of for finishing wood. Period. Drop the mike, and walk away.

It IS the dangerous polar solvents, formaldehyde, isocyanates, etc, etc; that have created the green revolution in water bases finishes!

But wait, WB may not be acceptable? 
ALL of the known WB finishing chemistries have poly ethers, ester solvents, and/or glycols that are also dangerous, just in different ways. Practically all WB finishes have similar PPE requirements to gentler solvent based finishes in a commercial operation, due to total exposure time limits.

So EVERY finish has bad stuff in it as liquid. BUT - Almost none of the current generation finishes are dangerous when fully cured, regardless of chemicals used to make them.

My point with boring chemistry: 
If the OP is not willing to wear proper PPE based on formulation that meets the requirements, then there might never be a solution. 
Yes, Drop the mike, walk away again.

*Third: *
Attempting to reach through this forum with some random bytes of information and have a detailed conversation on the chemistry .vs. performance .vs. application trade offs for the HUNDREDS of possibilities available is IMHO - PRACTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE.

As I posted earlier, The OP needs to get off the forum and go face to face with a finishing professional with decent amount of experience at his local wholesaler to discuss available options. 
Not until you: 
nail down exact KCMA durability requirements, 
compare SDS with go/no chemicals .vs. PPE, and 
finalize application equipment options. 
Can an possible solution be suggested.

Bottom line: 
HIGHLY suggest you seek professional suppliers advice on how to met your requirements and work through the trade offs.

If you were here in AZ, would send you to visit https://painterssupplyarizona.com/ and you would likely leave with solution, or leave knowing your requirements are impossible without different compromise.

If you don't want the best commercial compromise for your countertop, brush on some Arm-R-Seal like any other hobby wood worker and pray for the best.

Best Luck finding a solution that makes you happy!

Thanks for reading all the way to end!
Drop the mike, walk away, unwatch.


----------



## hkmiller (Mar 6, 2018)

If you're removing the countertops to finish just take him to a finish up and have him spray conversion varnish


----------



## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

> Rich you must be in a good mood. Very patient.
> I thought the Op comes across as pushy and demanding.
> 
> - Aj2
> ...


Cool.
Its just me in a weird mood.


----------



## LeeRoyMan (Feb 23, 2019)

-deleted-


----------



## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

> Been involved in polymer materials development off/on for over 30 years. The OP high level of skittishness on chemistry and sensitivity issues preclude use of ALL the solvent based chemistries I have used, or am aware of for finishing wood. Period. Drop the mike, and walk away.
> - CaptainKlutz


My apologies for the delay in following up, I unexpectedly got busy and sidetracked … the project has been on hold.

Thanks for the detailed reply CaptainKlutz, it appears you have a valuable depth of experience in the field.

Allow me to pick up the mike…
This characterization of my relationship regarding chemicals is exaggerated and misses the mark. I never described myself as 'skittish' or sensitized to petroleum solvents: indeed I wrote, "I've no issue using a solvent base finish".

It's true I now avoid using formaldehyde resins (and for example a product suggestion upthread incorporates them) after an accidental exposure. I've never to the best of my knowledge used isocyanates and would prefer to avoid those also. Furthermore, there's no pressing need for them in this current application.



> *Third: *
> Attempting to reach through this forum with some random bytes of information and have a detailed conversation on the chemistry .vs. performance .vs. application trade offs for the HUNDREDS of possibilities available is IMHO - PRACTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE.


Again, this is dramatically overstating the case. 
This thread has taken a detour into alternative finish types as well as commercial finishes… which is fine … however rather than requesting an exhaustive and comprehensive review of the state of the wood products finishing industry (despite its interest) ... I'd like to return to my original question as stated in this thread's title and expanded upon in my first post and others, regarding competing brands of solvent based polyurethane products (not skittish/not precluded).

Your suggestion to contact a commercial finishes business is spot on and which I intended to do prior to posting this thread. I'd planned to visit the store, but instead I called the store recently and spoke to a couple guys. The more knowledgable one recommended a water base conversion varnish by General Finishes (does it have isocyanates?). I asked if he knows of any discernible difference between the solvent base satin brush on polyurethanes he sells and products like Minwax and he said 'not really'. I'm not sure how valuable an answer that is. Unfortunately, it places me right back in this thread to address the question.



> If you don't want the best commercial compromise for your countertop, brush on some Arm-R-Seal like any other hobby wood worker and pray for the best.


(Right. I don't want the best commercial finish for my countertop as I don't want to engage the chemistry with the set up I'm working with or pay someone to do it for me. It's a budget parameter).
Is Minwax superior in this application? Just last night I came upon a completed hard maple shelf with a clear coat that I never put service. I marveled at how beautiful the finish was, how perfect the sheen was, and how flawless the application. I scratched my head for a moment wondering what it was finished in … it was that same can of Minwax satin poly.

*Regarding Arm-R-Seal* what, if any, are the performance benefits over something like Minwax solvent base brush on? Anyone are to share their experiences?


----------



## LeeRoyMan (Feb 23, 2019)

I think Polycrylic from Minwax would be perfect for you.


----------



## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

> LOL, thanks for laugh. NY style, always direct in your face and thinking it s normal.
> Guess that is why they always call each other jerks?
> - CaptainKlutz


On NYC'er bashing and good humored ribbing 

... I wouldn't call NYC'ers jerks (and more likely it's non NYC'ers calling us jerks : ). In this city things can move very rapidly - dramatically faster than most other USA cities - which has produced a culture where oftentimes people will take a direct path to the point and not beat about the bush, prevaricate, or expend time on added frills (in an odd way this can be viewed as a form of courtesy: not wasting other people's time).

Years ago I recall a newly elected mayor Guliani took on 'quality of life' issues and began enforcing jaywalking laws … which demanded that NYC'ers patiently and obediently wait for the light to tell them that they can walk cross the street to get to where they're going, even if the street is wide open and clear. That went over poorly and the line in Appocolypse Now about handing out speeding tickets at the Indianapolis 500 comes to mind. I go to other cities and pedestrians obediently and patiently wait for the 'walk signal' ... I think they're nutz!

Same with lines and slow moving cashiers: in other cities people patiently wait forever in obscenely long lines without grumbling. NYC'ers would be fidgeting and frantically and guiltlessly telling the cashier or manger 'What's the problem?!? What's going on? You need to open another register! This is unbelievable. Hurry up!" In ubiquitous corner deli's the NYC thing is you make your selection and put your money on the counter - even if someone else is int he middle of being serviced - the cashier dispenses your change amidst the interstices of their present transaction in an unbroken flow. A bagel store near me is the worst … the service feels like it would be better suited to a suburb of Indiana than NYC. A customer may need to wait 10-15 minutes to buy a single bagel if stuck behind a customer or two ordering a sandwich for example (I just walk out) because they are truly clueless about how to service a line rapidly … anywhere else in NYC one asks for a bagel, the guy bags it amongst whatever else he's doing, you lay down your money on the counter, take the bagel and get on with your life, lol. In NYC the jerk is the person needlessly wasting other people's time.

Guliani got an earful and informed the cops to stop enforcing the law and to stop ticketing jaywalkers so the city could get back to normal functioning.


----------



## Lovegasoline (Apr 18, 2018)

In answer to my questions regarding Arm-R-Seal, I did a little more researching and came upon this post by OSU55 which also links to a couple Bob Flexner articles:

https://www.lumberjocks.com/OSU55/blog/81642

He writes: "Many state they prefer General Finishes Arm-R-Seal. It's a good finish, but it is a poly just like the MW product. The biggest difference is Arm R Seal is thinned to be a wiping varnish. It has ~ 1/2 the solids content of MW poly (not the wiping varnish). ARS sells for ~$22/qt. I can buy MW poly and mineral spirits and do the extremely difficult task of mixing 1:1 poly and mineral spirits and have the same thing for ~$10/qt. MW poly is also much more readily available for me. ARS will not need to be thinned."

The Flexner articles goes into the chemistry and also application options for polyurethane finishes. 
At this point it's probably best for me to pull my Flexnor book off the bookshelf and refresh my memory.

The biggest countertop section I have is 3.5' x 2.5' and so it's manageable with a brush (or wiping, which I've never tried with poly).

... big thanks to everyone for all the great replies and suggestions!


----------

