# Help with joinery



## vmallery (Apr 30, 2018)

Hi all,

I'm new to woodworking and am looking for a little advice. This is my first project where I'm trying to make a small hallway stand. I used wood glue to glue pieces of pine together for the top and planed/sanded it down. After a couple days, you can see it started to form a cup. I'm wondering what I did wrong? And what could I have done better to make sure the piece remained flat?

Thanks


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## TechTeacher04 (Mar 17, 2014)

Typically pieces like you have would be glued in a different orientation, think about the way a hardwood floor would be layed out. It provides more strength and less chance cupping which you are experiencing now.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

That's a really unorthodox choice of not only the wood, but (as the previous poster said) the orientation. You're going to struggle with using construction lumber because it's not stable. If you want a thick top, get some 8/4 hardwood and glue it up edge to edge (NOT face to face). Maple, cherry, alder, white oak… there are lots of choices. Find a good hardwood dealer too. The big box stores aren't the place to buy quality hardwood.


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## LesB (Dec 21, 2008)

I see a lot of "center" cut pieces of wood (the very center of the log) that probably came from small regrowth trees from a tree plantation. OK for for framing work but not for what you are trying to do.
What you need for this type of project is quarter sawn lumber (hard wood would be the best) and even with that if there is a curve to the end grain growth rings you should be careful to alternate the directions of the curve as you assemble the pieces.

There is lots of info on the internet about how logs are sawn so I won't fill this response with explanations.

The piece you have in the photograph will continue to flex back and forth as the ambient humidity changes…..unless you happen to live in a stabile climate where this doesn't happen.

Sorry, time to try again but we all have learned a lot from our mistakes.


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## bbasiaga (Dec 8, 2012)

Next time, cut the pieces a little big and let them sit in your house for a month or two to dry out. They will move less. That one may stabilize in a mo th or two and you could try and reflatten it at that point.

Construction lumber is usually wet, and for furniture needs extra time to acclimate. I made a workbench out of it and have had no problems, but I did let it sit and air out a month after I brought it home and before I milled it.

Brian


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## vmallery (Apr 30, 2018)

This has all been VERY helpful, thank you all much appreciated.


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## jerryminer (Jun 15, 2014)

I think material selection is your biggest issue. As was said above, many pieces in your top contain the "pith"-the very center of the tree. This is unstable material. Dryness also factors in-your wood was probably not completely acclimated when first flattened.

Face-to-face glue-ups are fine, though, We've done a lot of tabletops this way. (And traditional European work benches are done this way, too-and have been for centuries). Dry, stable material is what makes the difference.


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## JBrow (Nov 18, 2015)

vmallery,

If one face of a panel has more moisture than its opposite face, cupping can result (concave on the drier face). This could happen when a panel that is flat after milling is set on a solid surface, even when the wood was fully acclimated before use. It may return to flat if the panel is elevated off the solid surface so that air can flow freely around all surfaces.

I agree with jerryminer and see nothing wrong with gluing wood face to face. My workbench top was made face-gluing maple. The joints remain tight and the top is flat after 30 years of service.


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

I've made some framing lumber furniture. Lots of fun. Works pretty easily, if you mess up a piece it's not expensive. And, in the end, if you like that look, it comes out pretty nice.

Two comments. (aside from those already posted)
I'm sure you glued together these short pieces for a reason, but would you consider using fewer, longer pieces and gluing them along the length? It would really diminish/eliminate the cuppoing.

Another thought. Whenever I use framing lumber for this purpose I never buy 2×4's. Purchase some of the clearest, straightest grained 2×10's or 12's that you can find. Slice them up to the widths you want. Then joint and plane them for glue-up. This way you'll never have a piece with that completely cupped grain in it. Besides, it's very hard to find 2×4's that don't have some bow or twist in them. Large lumber though is much straighter and straighter also when sliced up.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

If you lay it on a flat surface, especially right after gluing up, it's probably gonna cup.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

You can still salvage that. First let dry some more, in such a way that air can circulate all around it. Construction lumber is not dried to furniture standards. Then level it and take out the cup and twist using hand planes and winding sticks. Shouldn't be too difficult with pine. While the top is drying make the base.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

> Next time, cut the pieces a little big and let them sit in your house for a month or two to dry out. They will move less. That one may stabilize in a mo th or two and you could try and reflatten it at that point.
> 
> Construction lumber is usually wet, and for furniture needs extra time to acclimate. I made a workbench out of it and have had no problems, but I did let it sit and air out a month after I brought it home and before I milled it.
> 
> ...


This ^^ plus what Fridge said too.


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