# I have an electrical question



## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

Trying to construct an extension cord.

Have 12/3 wire with a 20 amp 260 heavy duty straight blade device

I have 3 wires…green, white and black

The ground is self evident.

Does it matter which termination post gets the neutral and hot?

got the product and advise from HD

Any advice is greatly appreciated.


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## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

http://forum.doityourself.com/electrical-c-d-c/139867-three-prong-plug-wiring.html

Check here


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

One Green and 2 brass….no silver

this is an extension cord end


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## drfixit (Oct 16, 2009)

the flat prongs should be slightly two different sizes… the larger one is the neutral wire


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

OK, all brass, Black wire to the narrow blade and white to the wide blade.


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## KnotWright (Nov 6, 2008)

Scott,
The white is your neutral wire, it should be wired to the widest blade of the outlet, on polarized outlets. Normally the neutral screw will be silver colored as opposed to the hot terminal which will be the brass colored screw.

If you are looking at the outlet(female) portion of your cord ground being at the bottom, neutral would be to the left and hot to the right. You can always look at one of your household outlets also, depending on who wired them, and how old your house is.

http://www.do-it-yourself-help.com/wiring_receptacles.html


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

this is the plug…looks like the 2 flat blades are same size

Link


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

I looked again using both glasses and a magnifying glass and both are brass terminal screws


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## reggiek (Jun 12, 2009)

If that is 220 there is no neutral….both are hot….it doesn't really matter which color is used as they both carry a load. Black and White hot….Green ground.


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

thanks Reggiek

I presume I must be consistent at both ends of the cord?


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

Well are you looking at 220 or 110??


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

220


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

Ok you're good like reggie said no neutal only a ground and you need a receptacle to match


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

Dont matter black white red on 220, green to ground


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

I hate to say but bentlyj you're wrong


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

Rocky did we loose you


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

No Gman I am here…I think (hope) I got it all.

I will look into the outlet and make sure I get the white and black to line up and carry thru to the entire extension cord/

Seems like pages are slow here tonite??


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

outlet may have different colors if so match them up


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

topomax is coming to help he is the eletcrical master


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Rocky, are you trying to make a 220 volt cord? If so, Geen is ground, the black and white will both be hots in that cable. The cord cap linked above is definitely for 220 volt 20 amp connection.


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

So topamax was I ok


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

bently sorry I did not want to harm you it is just tha I wanted rocky to get it ok


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Looks like you are ) White is used as a hot or switch leg in manufactured cables where you don't have enough colored conductors.


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## Stewy (Dec 8, 2009)

When you use any cord for making a extension cord, there is the right end of the cord for the male and for the female end or to the device. You ask why is that? Because the ends are configured in such a way that the cord will line up to the ends without your wires being twisted inside the plug housings. On some plugs this is critical or it won't go together correctly.You have a 50 / 50 chance of getting it right by accident. I hope I haven't confused anyone as this is hard for me to describe!!!!! 220 volt would not matter as much as 110v cord as orientation of the white ,black ,green in relationship to the terminals.


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

Stewy I don't know about Rocky but you have me lost.


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

So as long as I keep the wires consistent throughout the plug and outlet I am okay.

In other words the black is uninterrupted as well as the white?


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

Stewy where did you get that info:


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## Stewy (Dec 8, 2009)

I am an electrician and have been for 30 years. If you grab the cord and look at one end and have the other end
in the other hand and are also looking at it you will notice the white and black are orientated differently.
As well if you look at the terminals also on both the female and male terminals. Each plug will only work
on the right end of the cord without having to twist the wires over each other to hook them up. Did this help?


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Rocky, if yoiu stay consistent yoiu should be fine. It is pretty hard to mess up 220, you have 2 hot wires, doesn't really matter which is which.

Yes, When making up a 120 volt cord, one end will be easier than the other to put the cord caps on. If you have to cross the wires, put that cap on the other end. Other wise both ends will be have to be crossed & pain to deal with. Just the way cords and cables are made with wires laying side by side the full length.


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

Well no we did not take the same course that is for sure.


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## Stewy (Dec 8, 2009)

Topamax thanks for that explanation! I was just trying to make it easier for everyone to not fight the wires
as most of the replacement plugs do not have enough room to do it wrong. It will still work but why work harder? It was easier to show ya then write it!!!!!!!!!


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## GMman (Apr 11, 2008)

Now topamax we're talking he same language, sorry stew is too complicated for me I like simple wording….sorry stew all ok now


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

You're welcome. Why fight both ends?? You don't have the option of just fighting one end ) I don't know why they don't make them with a little more room in them?


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## reggiek (Jun 12, 2009)

I think Topa and Stewy got the matter well in hand….nice to have some sparkies around….Amazing though to see all the help that is garnered by someone asking a question here…..this site is so fantastic…You guys are a great resource.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

That is one of the keys to doing electrical work bentlyj, it is imperative you keep the smoke in. I have never seen electrical equipment that works very well after more than a whiff or 2 excapes. That is why I spray all my tools and motors with Electrical Smoke Seal. You can find it in the electrical dept of most better hardware stores. You have to take care not to block the cooling vents.


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

It all would have been easier if the OP would have said he was using 220 and posted the link to the plug. LOL


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

After I posted that, I was wondering if anyone would take it seriously ;-)) I can just see a run on Smoke Seal at HD or Lowes )


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Dan, I was a bit confused about what the voltage was at first until the link was posted. Proper terms in the original post would help to, but one who knows the terms probably doens't need any help ;-)) Sort of a catch 22, eh?


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

As electrical threads go, this one is pretty mild. Generally, nothing stirs up controversy and hard feelings like a simple electrical question. 

Topamax, I've been looking all over the internet to order some of that smoke sealer. Dang, that stuff is scarce!


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

I was told when I was an apprentice that all carpenters think they are electricians, maybe that is why there is so much tension? )

Charlie, you'll have to search the higher end hardware sites. Average run of the mill places usually don't know about it.


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## EEngineer (Jul 4, 2008)

Stewy… that's the funniest thing I ever heard! 30 years, huh?

The twists in wire have nothing to do with either side.Think about it… if you cut about 1/2 of the average twist per length… it reverses itself with 3 wires. You fail, dude!


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

EE, are you talking about putting cord caps on the wrong end?


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## bigfish_95008 (Nov 26, 2009)

So Rocky, you ever going to ask for advice on LJ again?


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## Stewy (Dec 8, 2009)

Yep 30 years, I hooked up a lot of them didn't just look it up in a catalog!!
All cords are not twisted cable!!


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Stewy, that is why all the job specs say to provide a complete and operating system. That way we are responsible to fill in the blanks, correct the errors and generally do what ever it takes to make the job work no matter what the engineers design ;-))


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## Stewy (Dec 8, 2009)

TopamaxSurvivor well said, the real story


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

I love LJ advice bigfish


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## EEngineer (Jul 4, 2008)

Well, then, stewy, that makes even less sense! If the cable is not twisted and the wires are laid next to each other, you can avoid twisting wires in the shell of either connector by simply rotating the connector 180.

Yours is simply the funniest statement I have seen on LJ to date. Even funnier is that you found someone to agree with you!


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

EE, better come out from behind the desk for a while and try some real world work. Stewy is absolutely right. Very few cables are truly twisted, those that are are used in instrumentation and control wiring to eliminate induction and degradation of signals. In power cables the wires a laid parallel. Those that appear to be twisted are merely spiraled.

These kinds of public displays are what keep a lot of members from posting and being more active. I hope in the future you will aspire to maintain the LJ standards that we have all come to expect and respect.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Now *this* is more like an electrical thread! Let me go start the popcorn.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Glad you are havinig fun Charlie) I hope the military guys can take this in stride. In the last 40 yrs I have found engineers and ex-military electricians to be the most dangerous when it comes to actually doing wiring.


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## reggiek (Jun 12, 2009)

Topa - perhaps you are talking about the showers over in Iraq that have electrical current running in the water? I saw a news story about that…yikes!......I thought they were kidding - like one of the Toolman Tim Taylor shows….or a 3 stooges short…..when I saw it was real….I figured that the cream of the electrician crop is not doing any of the work over there…LOL


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

They are exempt from code; ie, the problem. The code is the safety stop on electrical installations. I have been of service calls with people getting shocked in bath tubs and various other weird places. The problems were caused by illegal plumbing repairs, burst and frozen water pipes, women with nylon panty hose sliding around on their chairs while working at machine tool stations, you name it, it happens! There is a bit more to being an electrician than stringing wires and watching for the lights to come on )


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## bhack (Mar 19, 2008)

When did they get electricity in Chattanooga? When I left there in '65 all they had was coal oil lamps.


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

I think in '66 when I was 10 years old


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## EEngineer (Jul 4, 2008)

Topamax, you are funny!

Lessee… first there was this:
These kinds of public displays are what keep a lot of members from posting and being more active. I hope in the future you will aspire to maintain the LJ standards that we have all come to expect and respect.

But that was right after this:
EE, better come out from behind the desk for a while and try some real world work.

and just before this:
In the last 40 yrs I have found engineers and ex-military electricians to be the most dangerous when it comes to actually doing wiring.

So you personally insulted me, my profession and every veteran of the US armed services. You need to practice what you preach, dude! I hope in the future you will aspire to maintain the LJ standards that we have all come to expect and respect.

Frankly, you and Stewy are wrong. And you are gonna be wrong no matter how many insults you fling. Stewy may have 30 years, you may have 40, but neither one of ya is ever going to do any electrical work for me. The very idea that one end of a wire is any different from the other when it comes to wiring a socket and plug for an extension cord is wrong and you are giving bad advice.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

I can't debate ignorance. It is pointless. There is a difference between the ends of a cable.

You will never see me bursting into a thread calling the other LJs stupid or belittling them or their posts.

Facts are facts )


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## reggiek (Jun 12, 2009)

Pass the popcorn Charlie….one question for you EE…not to stir up any problems…but if one side of the wire is the same as the other…what happened to signal degredation? Wouldn't that mean we could use wire for any distance? I know that I have to use a signal booster on my network connections between buildings and that power companies use transformers to boost and reduce currents…and I see alot of things in my tool instructions to use extension cords of a minimum thickness and length? As for polarity…..I would agree as that does not change…nor does a hot wire become cold - of course that is without any device applied in between.

As a vet…I am not insulted by what Topa said (although I would say it's a bit too generalized)....I have seen some of what he is talking about….but that is also true with non veteran sparkies too….it just depends on experience and training as to who is the better…We deal with alot of former vet contractors - when we are doing gov't contracts….some are great…some are not…


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

reggiek, The comment is a bit too generalized, without a doubt. I have seen my share of electricians who have served an apprenticeship the same as I did who have one year's experieince 20 times, not 20 years experience. To clarify; the 20 years is just a random number.


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## WoodSparky (Nov 27, 2009)

Before today, I thought I know how to wire a 240v cord set. Now you guys have got me all confused.
I do believe the worst perpetrators of electrical abortions  are Plumbers and HVAC contractors. They are either to cheap or into much of a hurry to get an electrician.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

WoodSparky, you probably still do know how. The issue Stewy brought up and the point he was trying to make is there is very little room in a cord cap for crossing wires to get the proper polarity, such as a 120 volt with a neutral and hot. 220 it doesn't really matter. Works either way.

If you have to cross the wires in a cord cap, put the cap on the other end. You will have the proper polarity without having to cross the wires. If you are making up an extension cord, you will either have both ends easy to put together without crossing the wires or both will be a pain, because you will have to cross them in both ends. There isn't much room for all this foolishness of crossing wires in a cord cap and getting the grip on the outer jacket of the cable.

If you are using the cord to connect equipment, put the cap on the easy end and use the other end to connect to the equipment.


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

As the OP I am totally confused now


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## papadan (Mar 6, 2009)

OK, I have had enough popcorn for now, and enough idiot engineers. Even a dumb old hillbilly knows there is a right and wrong way to make a cord. Everything lines up straight when you do it right. The twist in the conductors serve a couple different purposes, one is it is easier to manufacture andcontrol the wire when twisted together instead of trying to keep them flat and straight. The other reason is to help control electrical interference from the magnetic field created by the current flowing through them. I wont go into too much of that, I am talking to an enbineer. Want a picture to help you understand?


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Dan, as a non-electrical guy, I'd love to see a picture that might clarify it. I think I understand what you/Topa/Stewy are saying, but a picture is worth a thousand words.


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## Stewy (Dec 8, 2009)

Wow now I have 2 that agree so that makes at least 3 of us. Seriously all I was trying to do was help the
frustration level on applying the plug ends as some of us have not done it often enough to see the obvious.
I tried to give back a little info to balance the mass quantity of woodworking knowledge I have taken. Thanks all
LJs or your great ideas and woodworking projects as a newbie here I am amazed at the talent here.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Charlie, Look at an outlet on your wall. The longest slot is on the left. Look at the male plug that connects to it, the longest tab is on the right as it faces you. When you put them together, one has to reverse for them to join come together. The wires in a cable are not normally twisted, they lay in there parallel. Induction is not generally a problem except for electronic and instrumentation circuits. Those are the only cables with twisted wires.

Receptacle end / *wires* / Male cord cap

Long tab-Neutral/ *white*/Long tab

Ground/*green*/ground

Short tab- Hot/*black*/ Short tab

With those wires laying flat, look from the receptacle end; then, look from the male end; the hot and neutral reverse sides respective to your right and left sides.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

I tried to draw a drawing with lines, but it won't work in this format.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Anyways, look at the connection side (back) of an outlet and male end cord cap side by side, it should be obvious. If not, well, just forget it, right Stewy?


> ?


?


> ?


 )


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Got ya, Topamax!


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## Stewy (Dec 8, 2009)

Boy did I open a can of worms, Just think its like looking at a box fan , one side looks like its turning clockwise and if you walk around 180 degrees and look at that side it is turning counter clock wise. Both ends of the cord
can not have the same orientation. Read Topamaxsurvivor's explanation as he says it better and so does papadan.
Charlie was right a picture is worth a lot, I almost made a Youtube video!!!!!!!!!!!!! so even EE would understand.
Remember you drew first blood!!!!!!!!!


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## dusty2 (Jan 4, 2009)

I've wired a couple buildings, two or three work shops and I don't know how many cords and extension cords but now, after reading and then rereading this thread, I have to go wire up an extension cord to make sure I understand how.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Nothing *sparks *a *high-voltage* debate like a question about electricity. The* current *thread is a case in point!

...sorry…very sorry… I could not *resist*


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Great puns ChuckV )


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## RobWoodCutter (Jul 22, 2009)

The linked photo is a NEMA 6-20P plug (labelled 20A-250V) that is meant to used on 208 volt or 240 volt single phase circuits. Two hots (doesnt' matter color, black/red/ or white,which to be safe, put some black tape around the exposed white insulation to let the non-electrical types it's a hot not a neutral), and one round stab which is ground.(green)

If you need a 20amp plug for 120Volts, you need a NEMA 5-20P (labelled 20A-125V) that is meant to used on 120v single phase circuits. One hot (vertical stab), One neutral (horizontal stab), One ground (smilley opening).

When you have two parallel stabs you have at 120v a NEMA 5-15P (labelled 15-amp-125 volts), which the small vertical stab is the hot (black), the wide vertical stab is the neutral (white), and the round stab is ground (green).

When you have two horizontal stabs, you have a NEMA 6-15P (labelled 15amp-250Volts), which the two stabs are both hots, and a round stab that is ground (greeen)

Rob


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

thanks to RobWoodCutter for clarifying this for me and being brave to enter into this thread


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## RobWoodCutter (Jul 22, 2009)

Also, the reason the screws are the same color, is they are meant to be fed from the same type of source, I.E. two Hot conductors.

On the120 volt plugs, 5-20P and 5-15P plugs, one screw is brass (hot) and one screw is silver (neutral). Different color different source.

Rob


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## interpim (Dec 6, 2008)

as far as military electricians being unsafe, i have to say i agree on some aspects of it. They may be unsafe for the application you are thinking of, which most likely is residential electricity. In the Navy, shipboard wiring systems are slightly different, as in there is floating ground, as in really floating… the ship's hull is ground throughout. 
As far as understanding electricity, the guys I work with know what they are doing. If someone is a complete idiot and has military training, I would go so far as to say they are lazy, and aren't following what they were taught.


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## EEngineer (Jul 4, 2008)

idiot engineer - oxymoron… anyone who made it through an engineering degree is, by definition, NOT an idiot.

This will always rank as the funniest post I've ever seen on LJs. You people are morons!


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## studie (Oct 14, 2009)

Nailbenders, sparkys, turd hurders, we all have to know how to maintain our equipment. My bath heater is 220 and had me confused as it was wired using 12/2 with ground type wire. this made no sense to me, what about the common wire? The common and the ground hook to the same buss in the panel. remember the dryer plug of old? Crows foot, had 3 wires. Two hot(red & black) one ground green. Rob "stabbed" this one. Small 20a 220 plugs have horizontal stabs with both hot screws brass in color.


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## Stewy (Dec 8, 2009)

Has anyone heard the term Forum Troll? look it up. might see EE photo


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## Stewy (Dec 8, 2009)

A forum troll is someone who actively watches a forum. Not to be confused with a lurker, or just a forum frequenter, the troll annoys, pesters, and generally insults any thread they open.
An obnoxious user or member on a forum that goes out of their way to make pointless, offensive, or annoying posts and messages.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=forum+troll


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## EEngineer (Jul 4, 2008)

Yep! That's me! Forum troll! Still waitin' for pictures, stewy. Can't believe it without pictures! Go ahead! Make a (bigger) fool of yourself…


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## Stewy (Dec 8, 2009)

You are living up to the meaning very well, at least you show knowledge to be a good troll


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