# Lee Valley having internal problems?



## DaveInGA (Dec 23, 2017)

Hello All,

In the last month or two, I've placed a lot of orders with quite a few companies for woodworking equipment. With very few exceptions, I've had excellent service, fast shipping (within reason on almost everything), excellent communications from the companies related to shipping delays and most everything was well packed for it's journey to me. So overall, a great experience.

Recently, on April 5th, I placed an order with Lee Valley for quite a few items and spent quite a bit of money with them. I did this online and made sure I double checked all of my information. (I run a business where delivery and details are important.)

First, I get two emails from them. On one, they're out of stock for a knob on a plane I ordered. Okay, so I email back and have them send the standard knob. (I wanted the low, wide knob.) On the other, they say there's a problem with my credit card and I have to call them. So I call, talk to them and find out they found me in their system from a decade ago where I'd ordered something to our previous address.

As I'm talking to the guy, I'm realizing none of the information on the new order was incorrect and I'm wondering why the delay and how/why these two orders from two time periods so far apart have created this situation. (I still live in the same town and only about 3 miles from the previous address.) It had been long enough I didn't remember the previous order. But okay, I answer the guy's questions and get off the phone, thinking everything is straightened out and my order will ship soon.

Next thing I know, I see a double charge in my online banking showing on my credit card for the same amount from Lee Valley. So I call them and am told (after several hours they called back and left a message on my phone) it was just a "reserve" and it'll drop off. I found that odd, because none and I mean not a one of any of the other online retailers had done this. They all just simply charged my credit card at the time the order was shipped out, which makes perfect sense. I'm not real comfortable with this.

So another day passes and the double charge goes away, but still no shipment notice. I suspect it was a double charge and there was no reserve involved, I caught it and they fixed it, but did not admit the mistake. I check on their website this morning (they're not open yet) and find the order now has an item back ordered and I see no indication of shipment of the other items. This was an item that was supposed to be "reserved" according to the order before that. So I've been charged for the full amount, including the back ordered item (almost $200.00 alone) and still no shipment notice.

So now I'm sitting here with $907.00 less in my account and still no shipping/tracking notice in my email inbox. I must say, I'm not getting warm fuzzies here. If I ran my own business like that, I'd be out of business in a hurry.

My apologies for the long winded post, but I'd like to ask, is this the norm from Lee Valley now? Are other folks experiencing this or am I just unlucky related to them? At this point, being a cranky ole fart, I'm inclined to call them and if the order has been delayed, to simply cancel it and have them refund my money.

Can someone who does more business with them than I do please advise so I don't let my old man oneriness get the better of me?

Thank you,

Dave


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## gargey (Apr 11, 2016)

I've actually been unhappy with customer service at Lee Valley over the last couple of months as well. Rude treatment (very surprisingly).


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## harrison17 (Sep 27, 2017)

I believe they're having a lot of issues with the recent Cites changes and the change to torrified wood for plane parts. There's a post on another site discussing it and Rob Lee shares some information.


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

Long time Lee Valley customer here. They have typically been the epitome of great customer service and fast shipping. Last few months though, I've been annoyed with them too; seems like a large amount of their inventory is out of stock. Not just planes and tools with wood parts, but hardware, drill bits etc.


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## d38 (Sep 6, 2017)

Last fall I ordered 6 blast gates for my dust collector setup, and all was good. 
I've heard a lot of good things about them, so hopefully the above issues are isolated and they'll be back to "normal" soon.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

JessEm pulled that "reserve" double-charge crap on me when I ordered my Mast-R-Lift II. Let's just say having an extra $350 outstanding on my checking account (I used a debit card) for several days is really irritating.

It all worked out and I love the lift, but the experience sucked.


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## MarioF (Feb 6, 2009)

Been their customer (for business purposes) for the last 12 years without any significant problems, maybe you are just having a bad spell, but it is quite rare from Lee Valley, these folks are really professional


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## JADobson (Aug 14, 2012)

I can't say much about their mail order side of things as I have a store just a few minutes from my house. They have been nothing but fantastic there. Hope it all works out for you.


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

Never had an issue with a credit card or rude people but the past several orders from last year and this year, they've all been out of stock and delayed many weeks or months.


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## NeophyteGrant (Jan 2, 2017)

I can more understand the constraints and lead times of a couple person shop like Blue Spruce, or maybe Lie Nielsen (bigger in scale. Also love my LN chisels.), but I've been extremely frustrated by LVs inability to keep anything in their PM-V11 chisel line (bench, or butt) in stock for more than a day or two once they are resupplied. They had delays into JUNE for one or two sizes only a couple days after they had been out for almost a month.

You just can't do that repeatedly to consumers; I want to buy some LV chisels in the larger sizes and I can't. Never good when a consumer can't buy (and receive within a month and more) your product. Anecdotally, we all know there is sufficient demand to produce ample numbers of these and that demand won't abate any time soon. Either they're in a mess with something or they're artificially driving up demand or some sort of chicanery.


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

Well, the founder died a couple years ago. Sometimes a company can lose direction for awhile in that case. I hope they pull it together. I like their stuff - can't afford much of it, but certainly like it.

-Paul


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## JohnChung (Sep 20, 2012)

I have very good service from LV.

That aside. Maybe these issues be forwarded to Rob Lee. The president.
He monitors this site frequently.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/forumdisplay.php?4-Neanderthal-Haven

As for items out of stock . The latest plane from them is no fun machining. The number of parts into that 
plane held up a lot of the backorders they had.And the latest issue is the wood on the handplanes. No longer Bubinga.


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## johneone (Apr 23, 2007)

I'd be shocked if Rob Lee, the president doesn't reply to this. They are a class act and I'm sure he will get this cleared u p.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

> I d be shocked if Rob Lee, the president doesn t reply to this. They are a class act and I m sure he will get this cleared u p.
> 
> - johneone


Ditto. Also, a few companies seem to be retooling lines lately to keep up with new demand and offerings. Something to consider as well.


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## NeophyteGrant (Jan 2, 2017)

I've loved LV-great quality, as the choir knows. Built my bench around the 3/4 dogs, wonders, and accessories, plus my back saws and much else.

I'd love to sneak in under the wire on a chisel order if they'll have me to the dance


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## RobLee (May 19, 2009)

Hi All -

First of all, I'd like to apologize to Dave for the problems with his order - it was completely our fault, and we should have done better. Looking at the events that occurred between the time the order was placed, and subsequently cancelled - I can't believe what I see. It's like "groundhog day" - the same type of error cycling over and over - partially due to a part that cannot be found, and partially to our own system processing constraints (the order was being voided every day at 11:00AM - automatically!). We'll have some programming developed to detect and prevent this for future customers.

We also continue to be challenged by demand for Veritas products during our conversion to in-house (onshoring!) manufacture of handles and knobs, using a torrefied maple. The changes to the Cites II list caught many manufacturers by surprise - us among them. We have been struggling to get further along the learning curves as we are experiencing a peak demand from the necessity to convert 100% on short notice. We have brought in new equipment to help get us back on track, and should be out of the "hole" we're in soon. We literally have thousands of finished planes and chisels waiting for the wood parts. (turns out - wood is a "lousy" material to build a manufacturing process around…. ).

Overall - our inventory is in good shape - with more than 97.8% of catalogued items in stock. Our main challenge is ensuring every item is in every location, in the correct quantity - we have 3 Main picking warehouses, and 20 retail stores. In order to serve our non-store customers better, we have opened a second fulfillment warehouse in Reno NV, and we are still working to balance inventory between our two large distribution facilities. It's a learning process, and a one time adaptation.

Not much consolation for Dave though - we failed spectacularly on his order - and can only learn from it.

Sincerely,

Rob Lee


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## NeophyteGrant (Jan 2, 2017)

Gotta say, I feel pretty satisfied with that response now (and merely that an executive would respond on a forum). Thanks Rob, for taking the time to write a thorough response; I appreciate it. It's good to keep in mind there's usually a lot more context than is perceptible on the outside.


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

Rob, thanks for chiming in and explaining things. My issues have not turned me off to LV. In fact, I can't wait to visit a store for the first time in my life in about two weeks. Reno warehouse is awesome, I have not ordered anything since it opened to see how much shipping time has changed, I would think it has to be much improved for Western-half US people.

It stinks you don't have them in Texas, but if you did I think I would be broke.


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## bigJohninvegas (May 25, 2014)

The Reno warehouse is great. huge improvement for me. 
Lee Valley is a main go to store for me for fine woodworking tools. 
I too have had back order issues hear and there. But it seems I have got updates regular enough when it happens. 
I live in Las Vegas, Nevada. And while frustrating, I had excepted that orders coming out of Canada 
take an excessive amount of time. 
I have placed two orders since the Reno location opened. Let me say Wow, I had both orders with ground shipping in a couple days. 
Its good to see Rob Lee respond here too.


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## DaveInGA (Dec 23, 2017)

Hello Everyone,

First of all, my apologies for not replying sooner. Later on the day I posted this, a transformer in a brand new substation a half a mile from my home blew up (If you've ever seen one blow and I have, the sound is unmistakable.) and the power dropped and came back on as the back up switched in. Unfortunately, the power surge took out the local phone companies CO (central office) for phone/internet service, wiping out my internet. I'm actually using my phone hotspot to respond right now, eating up the megabits. :/

I ended up cancelling the order when I saw later that morning the order I'd been told was being shipped the day before was still showing in my "order que," my credit card had been charged (not just reserved/tied up, but real money removed), a $169.00 item that had showed "reserved" and I'm assuming available was now back ordered while the amount for the entire order was pulled from my account. I called to ask and I can't remember what he said, but customer service guy I talked to told me I would not be charged for the back ordered item when I already had been. After everything else, this raised enough red flags in my head I decided it was time to get out while the getting was good, so I asked the guy to cancel the order. He immediately turned from friendly to not friendly at all and did not apologize (I would have, had that been my customer.) for the disaster my order had become. So I went from feeling uncomfortable to alarmed to now just feeling a general dislike of Lee Valley's lack of customer service attitude and a lack of interest in doing business there in the future. Which is really sad, because of all the planes out there, I like Veritas hand tools the best for the way they adjust and operate, very innovative. I really wanted to shop there.

Mr. Lee,

Thank you for posting in my thread explaining the back order situation. I can see from your response your interested in getting the website squared away as well. I would suggest to you to talk to your customer service folks about how they handle the customers whose orders have not gone well. From my point of view as a business owner, it's how you handle those problem customers that really tell a lot about your after purchase service. And yes, I understand some customers can be very difficult to impossible to make happy, but there are many and I'm one of them, that aren't that hard to make happy. Telling me things that are not factual is one of the ways customers like myself get alarmed, when what we're seeing with our eyes is not matching what we're being told on the phone.

The order I cancelled was only about a third of the items I had planned to order from you. Now I'm not sure where and what I'll do to find suitable replacements I'll really prefer and want. BTW, I really liked the scrub plane I bought years ago. It was real handy for stuff my jointer and planer weren't comfortable with. I still have it. I had to sell nearly my entire wood shop back then, due to financial troubles, but that tool was one of the ones I kept.

Best Regards,

Dave


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## rad457 (Jun 15, 2013)

To be fair, Lee Valley Tools updated their profile picture today! Just wish that L.A. Jack would be in stock!


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## ShawnMcG (Apr 14, 2018)

I hope that they improve soon. It's been a few months since I bought from them and never had an issue


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## JADobson (Aug 14, 2012)

> ... but then again my college professors were a bunch of unethical liberal leftists with bad moral values
> 
> - playingwithmywood


Says the guy whose handle is "playingwithmywood"


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

James - if online they say they are out of stock does that mean the same at the store? I'm going PM-V11 chisel shopping soon at the store but online they either have limited quantities or they are out of every single size!


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## JADobson (Aug 14, 2012)

Not necessarily. You can check store stock on the website as well. Just tell it which store you will be visiting.


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

Ah thanks, I did that. I could theoretically drive to 6 stores on our trip in case they're out, but I think my family would kill me.


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## tacky68 (Jun 29, 2014)

Rob; or anyone in the know:

I am in Reno ( did not know there was a Lee Valley warehouse here). What are the chances I can go there directly
and purchase items? Are they strictly an OFC? Thank you in advance.

Tim.


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## JohnChung (Sep 20, 2012)

> - Rob Lee
> 
> Rob I just wanted to tell you that my college professors teaching business communications would have given you a F on that response for too much honestly and not enough blaming others but then again my college professors were a bunch of unethical liberal leftists with bad moral values
> 
> ...


In this age. Honesty still pays.


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## RobLee (May 19, 2009)

> Rob; or anyone in the know:
> 
> I am in Reno ( did not know there was a Lee Valley warehouse here). What are the chances I can go there directly
> and purchase items? Are they strictly an OFC? Thank you in advance.
> ...


Hi Tim -

You will be able to pick up orders at the warehouse sometime in May/June - we still have to build some of the facility, and work out some processes. As soon as we're ready - you'll see an announcement!

Cheers -

Rob


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

I've been happily buying from LV for several years, and can say without doubt this is not an all encompassing problem, as I have never had anything I would even term a hiccup from them. I know Rob to be a consummate professional in dealing with questions, and I'm certain he will get whatever problem that has beset anyone taken care of.


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## tacky68 (Jun 29, 2014)

Rob: Thank you so much for responding to my post/question. I appreciate you taking the time to respond to this
entire thread while trying to run an entire company of that magnitude. Most presidents would not even be aware
of these questions/concerns, or bother answering them. Looking forward to visiting your facility. Thank you, again

Tim.


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## JohnChung (Sep 20, 2012)

> Rob; or anyone in the know:
> 
> I am in Reno ( did not know there was a Lee Valley warehouse here). What are the chances I can go there directly
> and purchase items? Are they strictly an OFC? Thank you in advance.
> ...


@Rob That means the other planes are out of stock too? Until May/June?

For the new facility will there be a walkthrough video?


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## RobLee (May 19, 2009)

> Rob; or anyone in the know:
> 
> I am in Reno ( did not know there was a Lee Valley warehouse here). What are the chances I can go there directly
> and purchase items? Are they strictly an OFC? Thank you in advance.
> ...


Hi John -

We get deliveries every day of handles for planes from the woodshop, and are continuously filling orders. We expect to be completely caught up with our production backlog by May/June. Our system delivery dates reflect the date an order has been completely delivered: there may be several batches delivered against a single order before it is completed. Then too, Lee Valley is only one customer for Veritas - there are other orders being filled at the same time. It's a difficult situation for us to be in, and it is our absolute top priority to address.

Your suggestion of a walkthrough video is a good one - and I'll ask our Social Media group to get one put together once we've completed the pick-up part of the operation ….

Cheers -

Rob


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## JohnChung (Sep 20, 2012)

@Rob I need to be patient…... I am the same fellow from December on the scraper plane. Finally got the opportunity to order the shiny spotless plane!


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## Baudy (Aug 7, 2018)

I'm also having major back order issues. I ordered a set of the pm-v11 bench chisels in March. It's now August and the backorder date keeps going back each month. I sent an inquiry email and they're able to ship all but the 1 inch. So great service.

Hoping they're worth it! But frustrating.


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## NomadV (Feb 20, 2019)

Well almost a year later and still having problems with Lee Valley orders, can't seem to get a idea of when my order will ship, if not figured out today will order from Lie-Nielsen


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

I just placed a couple of orders with no issues over the last two weeks. Another one this morning.

Chopsticks anyone…. lol


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## onoitsmatt (Mar 7, 2015)

No problems here either. I've placed two orders since the free shipping thing started a week or so ago. First order arrived in a few days. 2nd order was for a plane that they showed as out of stock until mid-march. They sent an email on that one confirming the order but no shipping date. But that makes sense because they can't ship what they don't have. I've never had any issue with them.


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## NomadV (Feb 20, 2019)

Well they Lee Valley got back to me, apparently the are having issues with a computer system that is saying something is in stock but not. Anyway they were very nice and promised to ship it next day air when it finally arrives hopefully in early march, but gave me a heads up it could be later. Guess the free shipping promo might have caught them a little off guard and with computer issues to boot suppose its understandable


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

just received a new router plane from them last week went smooth with normal shipping,ive always had good service from them,i hope that isn't changing because i love the quality of stuff they sell.


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## NomadV (Feb 20, 2019)

Another shipping problem with Lee Valley, ordered an item from them, they say it was shipped UPS tracking says it was delivered. Found out it was returned to Lee Valley for some unknown reason, never left the area shipped from. Called them, they are trying to figure out what happened, but have no idea, when I will receive, have not received a new tracking number. This partially may be a UPS problem but I doubt it, maybe I just keep getting hit buy lightning. My confidence in Lee Valley is quickly eroding.


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## Jeff28078 (Aug 27, 2009)

I'm a long time customer of Lee Valley since I lived in Toronto and shopped at their Steeles Ave store. Mostly I've been happy and I keep returning but two things bug me about them. First, most of their tools are top notch. But a lot of the other stuff is junk and, in my opinion, not worthy of the name. I speak about little things like toys and most recently a chain saw sharpener. Cheap and made in China. Second is their inflexible attitude about shipping. They'll only ship via UPS or USPS; both are terrible to where I live in North Carolina. Long ship time with USPS and hit and miss to say the least with UPS. Why no Fedex? I think first about how long I'm willing to wait it before I choose Lee Valley.


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## Delete (May 19, 2017)

I have to wonder if some of the supply delays are not due to recent changes at the border. Veritas's main manufacturing plant is in Ottawa so materials supplies like hardwood have to cross coming north and the finished product has to cross to supply southern outlets. My last order from south of the border was for a hydraulic pump for my tractor, four years ago, it was quick and border charges were reasonable. Since then delays and border charges have gone through the roof and it has been a long time since I have placed an order.


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

> Another shipping problem with Lee Valley, ordered an item from them, they say it was shipped UPS tracking says it was delivered. Found out it was returned to Lee Valley for some unknown reason, never left the area shipped from. Called them, they are trying to figure out what happened, but have no idea, when I will receive, have not received a new tracking number. This partially may be a UPS problem but I doubt it, maybe I just keep getting hit buy lightning. My confidence in Lee Valley is quickly eroding.
> 
> - NomadV


Hate it when stuff like that happens!

FWIW - Have rvcd 3 orders from LV since January here in AZ. Process was normal and everything went as expected. One item was back ordered, forecasting a 2 month delay. They managed to fill the order in 3 weeks, and ship it early.

BUT - the packaging at LV and shipping by UPS was less than perfect.

Rcvd one order from Reno warehouse, and two from NY warehouse. The NY shipments looks like a dog had used the box as play toy. Scuffed, dirty, ripped edges, even a crushed corner on one box. The shooting board I ordered had 2 holes in box, where screws on the fence and penetrated from inside.
I blame LV for poor packaging of the shooting board, and Gorilla's at UPS for extensive shipping damage to boxes. Even my local delivery guy (who I see too several times a week as he drives by while I work in garage), asked me if I wanted to open damaged one while he waited, so we could return it immediately if needed. Fortunately, contents were double boxed and OK inside.

IME - IF a box is damaged by UPS before it leaves a distribution center, they will generate an exception report and return to sender as damaged. Have seen this 3-4 times. It sucks, but it is faster than receiving it, and then having to send it back?
Can't speak for LV, but with others where I had exceptions, the problem with these returned by UPS packages is they get lost in a pile at receiving dock as they no have no matching receiving paperwork. And until someone opens the box and realizes the return is failed shipment, it sits. This can take several days. Only way to speed things up is to call, and ask why your package was not received.

Best Luck.


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## NomadV (Feb 20, 2019)

Thanks for the reply Captain, ya poop happens, just my bad luck it keeps happening to me  . I will say, that Lee Valley does seem to genuinely want to get things right, and if they don't, always seem to make it so. Guess when you really start to grow as a company things don't get any easier.
Best Regards


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