# Router Question, Bosch 1617 in Particular



## DavidNJ (Dec 10, 2012)

I've been looking at 2 1/2 hp routers. It seems from comments on this forum and reviews that Bosch 1617 is a better setup than the Porter Cable 890 series. In both cases I was considering the fixed & plunge base kits. I had been considering the Hitachi M12VC, largely because of its cost advantage.










Right now, that cost advantage is wiped out with the Bosch. They also have an additional base for about $60 designed for router table use.










Reading on this forum, it seems the Bosch doesn't allow for above table bit changes. Is that true? Is it true with a lift? Do other routers (Porter Cable, DeWalt, Hitachi) support above table bit changes?

Thanks,

David


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

I believe both Triton and Milwaukee routers allow above the table bit changes and depth adjustment. Triton makes a 2HP (model MOF001) and a 3-1/4HP (TRA001). Milwaukee's 5616-20 is a 2-1/4HP.


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## ClayandNancy (Feb 22, 2010)

I have the Bosch And love it. I don't use it in a table. I have a Porter/Cable 3 1/4 hp in the table with a lift. Hartville just had the Bosch kit on sale for around $200.


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## DavidNJ (Dec 10, 2012)

More homework…the 1617 is replaced by the MRC23. The kit is $90 more…the low price on the 1617 is apparently due to clearing inventory.

Is the MRC23 worth it? It is full of new features; the 1617 is a decade old I believe.










Is this photo showing above the table bit changes? There seems to be 1/2 or more of travel left with the nut just below the table.










If you use the 1617 in a router lift, is the who bit change issue irrelevant?

This is a video of the MRC23: http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/m2NVKVKX9LRQC6


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

AFAIK, only the Freud FT1700/FT3000 and Triton routers offer true above table bit changes with a collet long enough to protrude above the table, auto collet lock when the collet is fully extended, above table height adjust, and above table height lock. Most others (Milwaukee included) only offer above the table height adjustment. For those with collets that don't extend above the able, you can buy a bent wrench that reaches beneath the surface if you remove the insert.

Here's a one handed topside bit change with the Freud FT1700:









Here's how it works with a bent wrench:


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## BurtC (Oct 30, 2009)

I got the 1617 and never regret it. Love this thing, also the deluxe edge guide, dust hood kit and the table.
My kit came with the fixed base with micro-adjust. Nope, can't swap bits above the table.


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## longgone (May 5, 2009)

I have a 1617 in my router table that I have used extensively for the last 5 years…however I use a separate lift from Incra…the Mastr Lift II aand it is worth its weight in gold. The new Bosch router MRC 23 seems to have the on/off switch in the handle and this would never work with a separate lift since I remove the motor from the base to install it in the Incra lift. Anyway you look at it the Bosch is a top quality router.
Each router has its good features that are better than others….
I also have the PC890 kit and it is my favorite for hand held use and with the plunge base. It also has a on/off switch on the base bottom that I like because it automatically turns it off when I set it down.

the Milwaukee is great for using with one hand because of the web strap…but i always have to struggle with getting bits in and out of the collet.


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

Before my current table setup, I used my 1617 in a Rockler FX lift. Yes, above the table bit changes are no problem. However, I really cannot recommend that particular lift. But I'm sure other lifts will give similar capabilities with even better performance. As mentioned above, the motor comes out of the bases for installation with a lift. I don't know if you can change bits above the table with a plate on any of the available bases.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I believe the Bosch routers are good routers but I always liked the availability of parts and accessories for PC products.
I'm fond of the "D" handle PC 690 for use as a hand held router. and a larger more powerful router for use in a router table.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

One thing to consider with the Bosch 1617 is that it does not accept standard guide bushings (i.e. Porter Cable bushings). To use them with the Bosch, you need the quick change adapter:

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-Quick-Change-Template-Adapter/dp/B005HPUP80/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1356134321&sr=8-1&keywords=bosch+ra1126

And a threaded adapter:

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-RA1100-Threaded-Template-Adapter/dp/B0009H5INI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1356134303&sr=8-2&keywords=bosch+router+bushing

THEN you can use standard bushings.

What I did with mine is I bought the quick change adapter, and I bought the Bosch set:
http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-RA1125-7-Piece-Router-Template/dp/B000063XTX/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1356134303&sr=8-1&keywords=bosch+router+bushing

That included the RA1100 threaded adapter, as well as normal bushings. Something to consider. I didn't know about that when I bought my router.

If you find a good price on the Bosch, take a print out of it to Lowes, and they'll price match it and take 10% off. I got mine for $167 after taxes.


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## DavidNJ (Dec 10, 2012)

knotscott, with bent wrenches all can change the bit from the table top?

a1Jim, Bosch has a D-handle for the 1617, about $80. Is it worth $80?










The 1617 combo klt is $165, the best I've found on the MRC23 combo kit is $275…big difference.

While Bosch talks about the advantages of the MRC23 and its use in a router table, they never talk about its use in a router lift. Can the plastic interface to the base electronics live in a lift? Better, the instructions say:

CONNECT THE ROUTER AND THE ROUTER TABLE SWITCH
To prepare for use of the switch:
1. Make sure the router table's switch and the router table switch are both turned off.
2. Plug the router table switch cord to wall outlet.
3. Plug the router into the "pigtail" socket on the router table switch.
4. Lock router switch on: squeeze trigger, depress lock-on button, and release trigger.
5. Use the router table switch to start and stop the router.

It sounds like it needs to be connected to the base to work.

The 1617 is sounding better.


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## Lifesaver2000 (Nov 17, 2009)

I noticed that the 1617EVS has a lot of complaints about the switch in the Amazon.com reviews, but most seem to be for units that would have been purchased about four years ago or more. Does anyone know if they have changed things so the switch is not a problem now?


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## surfin2 (Oct 24, 2009)

How would you hook up the D handle to the 1617….

Home Depot sells 2 motors 1 for $159.00 with 10 ft. Cord, Model # 16176

the other $179.00 with Short Cord for the D handle, Model # 16186

I was wondering if the motor from the D handle would work with a lift…

I want a D handle for free hand but would like to hook it up in a table also when need…

I have 890 that will stay in the other table cause its top heavy for free hand routing…


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

David
A lot of folks think that a router set with both plunge and standard body's are the best bargain The couple of sets I've seen the switching from standard to plunge bases is a bit of a hassle. The other thing is it's all but impossible to do every router job you have(that's why I have 38 routers) . You really don't need a lot of horse power for a hand held router where a router to be used in a router table a little more horse power is desirable because you use larger router bits in the router table. You might consider something more than a router set. 
As far as "D" handle routers they are much easier to use because you control the on and off with a trigger . Non "D" handle routers you try to turn the router off and on while holding a very torquie machine while loosening your grip to reach the switch. Of all of my students in any particular class I teach all of the students want to use one of the two 'D" handle routers that kind demand shows the proof is in the user. 
As far as the newer model Bosch verses the older one I think the newer model has very helpful upgrades like LED lights and soft start.these are great things to have so the extra cost might be justified. 
One more point is that if your looking for best value I've seen Sears combo kits sell for $119 with the lights and soft start I didn't like their old routers so I haven't purchased any sears sets but my students have and I was surprized at how well they worked. What ever you select good luck.


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## DavidNJ (Dec 10, 2012)

Working on the router table, eventually with a lift, is one of my objectives. I have a router…a $50 Harbor Freight 1.5 hp plunge with 1/4" collet. It really isn't that bad. As a dedicated plunge router the trigger is on the grip, it has a dust collection port, a primitive fence, and even a micro adjust knob. Best of all, it actually works. I've never used it with anything requiring a template, and it is hard (impossible?) to see the bit if the dust collector is on but it works and is fairly smooth.

I figured the 1617 at $165 would work with the upcoming router table (I have a few posts about that) and be a general upgrade for other work. I was expecting that it could be bolted in place initially and in a router lift later. The Porter Cable 895 kit was $235, but the Bosch 1617 is usually rated higher and was $70 cheaper. There is the router table ($53) and D-handle ($80) options. If you bundle options together to reach $100, I think you get $25 of each time through Tuesday.

The 15amp rating of the MRx23 is probably more indicative of its cutting power than the 2.3hp. The 2.3 hp compares to the 2.25hp of the 1617, an insignificant 2.5% that may not even be bigger production variations. The 15amp rating is 25% higher and in line with 3.25hp models.

Time to get the 1617 kit?


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## surfin2 (Oct 24, 2009)

*Stay away from 895…

It's top heavy & the base plate is too small, I had to make a bigger one for mine…

The lock for the shaft broke on mine after changing bits in a month of use…

It's cheap & very Chinsie… *

A1Jim, 
1617 has soft start…


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

I see no reason to avoid the purchase of the 1617 combo if that's what you really want. I've never had a complaint with mine…it's a terrific performer. You will have not have regrets…and you'll probably own the newer Bosch at some point anyway. 

38 routers, Jim? Thirty-eight? LOL!

I try hard to keep my wife from knowing about my 4 routers.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Rick the MRC23 has soft start

Jay I tried to put a photo of some of my routers but it came out small ,but there's one in my shop link

http://50.115.35.242/a1Jim/workshop


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## surfin2 (Oct 24, 2009)

newer model has very helpful upgrades like LED lights and soft start.

1617 has soft start also … upgrade, LED lights…


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Ok Rick if you say so I don't own a 1617, I agree with you on not getting the PC 895 I like the older 691models


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

Go for the 1617, and if above the table bit changes are important to you, invest in a good lift later on. It's the way I'm doing it.


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## DavidNJ (Dec 10, 2012)

It looks like the MRC23 won't work with a router lift but makes a nice handheld unit. The base can be used in a router table, just not with a lift. It is also more powerful even if peak hp is unchanged.

The 1617 is an older and popular design. It has repeatedly been a comparison test winner. As a result, most accessories fit it including virtually all 3.5" router lifts. Jasper has an acrylic baseplate that fits and takes PC templates and has a centering tool. There is a $55 base that gives top adjustability but still requires moving the motor for large adjustments (> 1/2"); I guess if you want router lift functionality you need a router lift!

The D-handle, although available, is pricey. The unit with the D-handle is more expensive than the combo kits. I like the grips if a standard plunge router much more than the wood knobs on the fixed base.

It seems everyone favors the 1617 over the PC 895 or the Hitachi M12VC. I've seen one review that had the Dewalt 618 tied with the 1617 and it comes with a base concentricity aligning ring. However, it seems to have fewer accessories and a base ring height adjustment for the fixed base.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

David 
I don't know how you would do it but if you can try what every router you decide on first and see how you like it, that would be best ,or purchase it from somewhere that has a good return policy.


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## DavidNJ (Dec 10, 2012)

a1Jim, Bosch has $25 off through Tuesday. If there were a store that had them all, I don't know about it. Especially a store that had them available for test.

It seems the 1617 is a good deal pricewise and will do what I need. While the MRC23 may be better in many ways, its lack of router lift compatibility is a knockout.

Is there a way to ensure template concentricity with the Bosch 1617 without using the Jasper baseplate?


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

It really my not make any difference whether you can return it or not if you can't tell in short order if you like the feel of the router you get. Places that will let your return things with out a hassle are places like Sear, Home depot, Lowes. at least around here.


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## DavidNJ (Dec 10, 2012)

Home Depot/Lowes/etc. allow returns, but don't have this item in the stores. They focus on under $100 items and cordless. Most Home Depots here don't even carry the Ridgid R4512 saw.


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## Whiskers (Nov 6, 2012)

the 1616evspk package is on sale right now on Amazon for 189 with a extra $25 off for buying bosch tools of $100 or more.


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## kizerpea (Dec 2, 2011)

1617 still the best thing going today…had mine ….forever….get yours…


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## greenacres2 (Jun 18, 2012)

I've got a pair of 1617's and like them a lot. Someone asked about a prior switch issue-that was indeed corrected 4 or 5 years ago. Also, the "table base" is virtually identical to the standard fixed base but without the hand knobs. Removing the base plate of the standard base gives access to a hex head adjuster. In both the fixed and table base, it is necessary to release the motor lock to adjust whether from above or below the table-not a big deal if the base is mounted in a convenient orientation. I use one of my fixed bases with the "ears" removed in my table, but if my plate was 9 1/4" instead of 8 3/4" wide i MIGHT not have had to remove the handles.

One of the added features of the MRx23 is that there is some fine adjustment available with the motor locked. I'd like to have that available, but not enough to spring for another router at this time!!

earl


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## ScomelBasses (Dec 6, 2012)

I've had this router for about 1.5 years and like it a lot. However, my switch did fail like a lot of others so the switch problem has not been corrected.


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## DavidNJ (Dec 10, 2012)

The 1617 has been a top rated router for a decade. The switch failure hasn't made the reviews but seems manageable. The MRx23 is priced closer to a 3.25hp router, and draws current like one. It has lots of nifty features, some very significant, especially for handheld use.

However, Bosch made no provision for use with a router lift. In this case that seems to mean the MRx23 won't work with a router lift.

The existence of the MRx23 probably means that an MRx17 or 21 to replace the 1617 is on the way. It may or may not support router lift use. An attachment allowing all of the new series routers to be used in a router lift may come in the future.

I used my $50 plunge router yesterday to check if I'm missing something…it worked fine. I realized that I have trigger handles since it is a dedicated plunge router. The 1617 seems to be a bit better, and certainly have much more industry support, than the Hitachi M12VC which I was considering based on price.

And, as pointed out, on the current sale it is actually cheaper than the Hitachi. I guess I will pull the trigger on it…but I'm still hemming and hawing because my philosophy is to buy products close to the beginning of their lifecycle so they are not missing the new enhancements.


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## Woodbum (Jan 3, 2010)

David: I have both and really like them. I use the D handle PC a lot, and have a regular base and a plunge base for it. I have a PC 3 1/4 hp in my primary router table with a Woodpeckers sidewinder lift. The Bosch I have mounted in my secondary router table/table saw extension wing in another Woodpeckers lift and adaptor ring. I like the PC router better only because of the bushing set up. They are both very good routers. If you anticipate doing a lot of work with router bushings and jigs, and only want one router, the PC might be your best bet. Both have more than enough power for handheld use. But if you can afford a second router setup for table use and above the table bit changes, use a router lift and a HD router or motor. Woodpeckers and Jeesem make good lifts, and the PC 3 1/4 is available as a motor only to put in either of these lifts. I use 3 router tables and have 7 routers that all get a lot of use, except for my 3.5 hp Makita plunge which is a BEAST with more power than I rarely need in a handheld router. But the power is nice when you need a little extra OOMPH. Good luck with your purchase, work safely, have fun and smile more!


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## DavidNJ (Dec 10, 2012)

Using the Jasper baseplate the 1617 can take standard thread bushings, so that isn't really a problem. It is just a bit more than the snap-in Bosch adapter. The Bosch adapter can take either Bosch snap-in bushings or an insert to accept threaded bushings. The Jasper includes a base alignment peg.










I was thinking of just one router…and I like the MRC23, but it doesn't look like it will fit a router lift, a primary requirement. While the specs don't list it, it is unclear if it is a 3.5" or 4.2" motor. The 15amp motors are usually 4.2" I believe.

Question: does anyone have an MRx23 in a router lift?


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

I have the 1617EVSPK combo kit and it has worked well for me so far after 8 months of use. The fixed base is mounted under a router table top. I switch back and forth as needed.

Although I have a cheap Harbor Freight router/table combo and a smaller Craftsman router, I have been thinking about another router, so the price is inviting. I have the templates and adaptors and all works as advertised.

@DavidNJ - where did you see the Bosch low price?
Thanks


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

@ David - one thing I did find out is that the fixed base and the plunge base have different bolt patterns. I bought the Rockler Group "A" plate and quickly discovered the plunge base would not bolt up. The fixed base was no problem.

I also bought one of those universal adaptors from a seller on ebay and it didn't fit either. Kinda aggravating, I tell ya. :-(


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## surfin2 (Oct 24, 2009)

Tools Plus
$174 Free S/H


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## surfin2 (Oct 24, 2009)

Bosch 1617EVSPK

$164.03 Free S/H


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

Thanks Rick.


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## DavidNJ (Dec 10, 2012)

Bought at Amazon, $164.03…less than the Hitachi M12VC.

With the jig saws, when they replaced the $180 1591 with the $139 470EB and $290 572EB. However, the 470EB lost the blade alignment rollers and the 572 was more than I wanted to spend. I ended up with the 470EB after failing to find a 1591 still available.

I'm pretty sure the 1617 will be replaced shortly just as the MRx23 has replaced the 1619. My guess is it will lose a few of the features on the MRx23 and may try for a lower price point than the 1617 before the current sales.

Now, what accessories do I need? Dust collection ($20)? Edge guide ($38)? Template guide adapter ($14) and snap in templates ($28)? The extra router table base ($53)? Add to $100 and $25 off. I can always fill a $20 gap with jigsaw blades.

Thanks,

David

Note, Amazon doesn't have the D-handle to include.


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## surfin2 (Oct 24, 2009)

Getting a plate with the insert for templates templates ($28) would be better & cheaper & easier…
You can pop out the router from your table & use it hand held with the plate & put what ever guide you need.
I got a plate from Rockler with all the inserts. I got tired of changing the inserts out. (screwing the incertin & out)Then I came across the incra MagnaLOCK The templates are magnetic very easy to change, should also make it easier for above the table changes. You can take out the template & have more room to get to the collet
I got this with hopes of getting there Lift Incra PRL-V2 Lift . 
I want 2 tables compilable with each other. I'm working on the other top now.


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

@David - the fixed base is what I have under my table. I drilled a hole through the Rockler plate so I could adjust the depth stop from above the table with the hex key that came with the base.


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## Cato (May 1, 2009)

I also have the 1617EVS combo and like it a lot. I got the separate base for the router table where the router stays most of the time, and I put the aftermarket base on it that accepts the PC bushings.

For me its no big deal not to have above the table bit change as it slides out of the base mount easily. What I do like a ton is the above the table depth change with that little key. That is huge when setting to a precise depth.

Bosch did seal the on/off switch a few years ago on these routers.

It has good power for use in the router table, and I have a PC 690 with 3 bases that I use for most of my hand routing, favoring the D handle a lot of the time.

I will use both the PC and Bosch sometimes in hand routing to keep bit and depth changes to a minimum, especially when I am cutting dovetails, then it really is a must to have two routers to keep from going crazy.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

I agree a D handle is much nicer on the fixed base router. I got the plunge base (for the PC 690) years ago, and had a crazy idea. I took the D handle off the fixed base and put it on the plunge base. Yes, it actually works, and is pretty handy. Had to do some modifications to the handle to make it work. You could call it the best-or the worst-of both worlds.


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

1+ on knotscott's comment. The Freud FT1700VCE is a real gem in the table. 
1+ on Jim's vote for a dedicated table router. Then you can pick another router that excells at hand routing. My hand router is the Dewalt 618. I didn't like the way the bases twist to change on the 1617. I also don't care for the wooden handles, and relatively top-heavy feel compared to the Dewalt. The 1617 is a good router, no doubt. However if you get two routers you can pick and choose one for ergonomics that are best for you. I don't use my D-handle as much as the plunge and fixed base. 
FYI the Bosch MRC23 is a 15 amp router. Although labled 2.3 hp, most other brands call a 15 amp router=3hp. It is heavy as blazes (think P.C. speedrouter territory). It is not a direct replacement for the 1617.


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## DavidNJ (Dec 10, 2012)

I don't think Freud FT1700VCE is still available. I thought I heard that their power to line was purchased by Bosch and that it was discontinued. In any event, a Google for the Freud routers shows old reviews and no current vendors or listings on their US or Canadian websites.

Did Dewalt was a tie winner with the Bosch in the last Fine Homebuilding 2 1/4 hp router review. I was considering but can get virtually no owners to comment. It has the newer style pancake motor was improve the balance, the kit includes a tool for centering the base, I believe it takes the PC template guides directly, and has a kit including the handle for only $54 more. It also has a clever dust collection built into the plunger rod on the plunge base. The kit equal to the $164 Bosch would be $175 Amazon. The kit with the D-handle, plunge, and fixed bases would be $230, All prices are through the December 25th when both manufacturers have a $25 holiday promotion.

I also don't care for the wooden handles. The Bosch has an above table adjustment that the DeWalt doesn't have which was my reason for selection. However, I'm now thinking I will just get the Woodpecker 350 Sidewinder base eliminating that issue.

However, I couldn't cancel the Amazon order I made yesterday. Return shipping would add about $20.


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

You did good with the bosch. The dewalt has the best plunge base in the business, but the motors are unreliable. After some use, the magnetic speed control ring will pop and you'll have a router that can only go at full speed. It happened to both of mine. Since I never hand rout with big bits, I kept my plunge bases and bought dewalt 616's as my plunge base motors. They're the single speed version of the 618 so no variable speed issues. They run great.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

With respect to "standard" PC guide bushings, I make my own sub bases:

All the same size, makes it easier for swapping router during a specific operation
To accept PC guide bushings.

*As I have done for my Bosch Colt shown below*










*This approach makes it easier to design jigs/fixtures for my four routers!*


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

Late last night, I ordered the 1617 with fixed base…$147 with discount applied and free shipping. I will now have two identical routers so all of my accessories will fit.

I think you guys talked me into it!


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## DavidNJ (Dec 10, 2012)

I can use the Bosch Christmas discount ($25 on order over $100) for accessories. Dust collection is one. Edge guide may be another. Should I also get the snap in template guide adapter and the template guide set or just plan on getting a PC-compatible base for use with templates?

Is was thinking about the router table base for $55, but am now thinking that $55 is better spent toward a router lift with external crank handle. I believe both the MCLS U-Turn ($299, model -2 to fit 11- 3/4" x 9 -1/4 opening) and Woodpeckers Sidewinder ($260, SW 350 to fit 3.5" motors), or splurge on the MCLS Powerlift ($389).

The Powerlift as an odd size (9-1/32" x 12-1/16"). However, they offer it with their cast iron table saw router extension wing for $520. That effectively drops the cost of the PowerLift to $250 or the cast iron extension to $130, depending how you look at it. It has slots for their fence which wouldn't be used…one annoyance. And I was hoping not to lose the table saw's own extensions. But that is a different discussion.


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## Way7 (Jan 4, 2009)

Does anyone know if there is a D-handle base for the 1617 router and it's part number?


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

> Does anyone know if there is a D-handle base for the 1617 router and it s part number?
> 
> - Way7





> knotscott, with bent wrenches all can change the bit from the table top?
> 
> a1Jim, Bosch has a D-handle for the 1617, about $80. Is it worth $80?
> 
> ...


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## Woodmaster1 (Apr 26, 2011)

> Does anyone know if there is a D-handle base for the 1617 router and it s part number?
> 
> - Way7


Yes I have one in a locker and I will never use it. I got it when I bought 5 routers for $5 each. 1 Bosch 1617, two porter cable 690's , two pc trim routers.


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

Took some searching but it is a handle for the 1618. Bosch RA1162-(2610925470) Accessories Parts D-Handle Base for 1618 Series


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## Way7 (Jan 4, 2009)

Thanks, I have a 1617EVS I picked up recently but don't think the 1618 D-base would work with it.


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

I like this idea for my 1617 because the most unstable time on some cuts is when you have to let go of one of the knobs to operate the power switch.



> Thanks, I have a 1617EVS I picked up recently but don t think the 1618 D-base would work with it.
> 
> - Way7


 The motor supplied with the Bosch 1618EVS, aside from the short cord to the d-handle, is identical to what comes with the super popular Bosch 1617 kits and will fit the same lift plates without modification.


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## Way7 (Jan 4, 2009)

Andy, thanks for the link.


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## Brawler (Nov 12, 2018)

I have a Bosch 1617, that $60 lift base looks like the fixed base without the handles. I just used the fixed base for the router table. I bought a second 1617 on CL to use away from the router table.


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