# Rarely seen level of Customer Service these days



## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

glad you felt you were treated properly - that holds a lot of water these days.

as for the reasoning behind it all, I am not sure if it's because of good 'will' per se.


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

Being in the dark ugly inner workings of the business world, I highly doubt this is a good will gesture. My assumption is the back room conversations went something like this:
Home Depot: "hey Freud, we are getting complaints about your sandpaper, fix it our we are pulling it and going with a different brand. Since the ONLY ROS sandpaper we carry is Freud, you are going to lose a lot of sales"

Freud "Uhh, crap. That would not be good. Get us in touch with a few people and we'll see what we can do"

Home Depot "Good deal. Just as a reminder it's time to renegotiate our purchasing agreement and we have RFP's out to other vendors. We'd love to continue carrying the entire diablo line of products, however they have to meet a certain level of expectation for the price we are paying you"

Freud "Understood"

With that said, this is still a great service to their customers. A lot of stores sell crap, and do not care they are selling crap and have no intention of fixing it.


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

Sounds like they're at least making an attempt . Could just be blowing smoke as well.
Looking forward to the "New and Improved" product labels coming out , but I won't be holding my breath in the meantime : )
Joe, I'm interested in the issues you had with the hook and loop. I know myself that different papers stick very well to my PC H&L sander , and others I almost need to glue them to it. LOL 
I also noticed that my oldest PC H&L disk had worn down from heat and use over the years , contributing to the issue. A new disk solved that.
I also wonder which grit you were using that was more aggressive than you expected it to be.
Thanks 
Len


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

The hook and loop backing is just terrible. I am lucky to get 4 to 5 removal and reapplications. This was both with 80 grit and 150 grit. I have 2 sanders I use a lot, a fairly new Milwaukee and an older Bosch. The Bosch has a replacement hook and loop pad. I have never had this problem with ANY other paper, including the super cheap HF stuff. In all other cases, the abrasive wears out long before the hook and loop gives up. This was not isolated to a few sheets. Every single Freud sheet I used (10 80 grit and 10 150 grit) exhibited the same symptoms. On the 6th application, the disk went flying as soon as the sander turned on. NO adhesion at all - even after cleaning the pad and paper backing with compressed air, and I sand with a vacuum attached. Also I felt the 150 was too aggressive. In sanding pieces thinner than the 5" pad while in a vice, if you caught the edge of the ROS it would leave a gouge deep enough to warrant a pass through the planer. I understand that it is partially operator error, however no other brand of 150 grit has ever cut that hard. Kept completely flat it operated as expected.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

I believe that a company like Freud really cares about its image. 
I also believe that if you mention Lumberjocks that also add to the pressure on the company to do the 'right thing", no one can afford a bad image.
I work for a pharmaceutical company and I can tell you that customer's complains are taken extremely seriously.
We saw that with the HD and the WorkSharp 3000 situation.
Taking about abrasives, I personally always had an excellent experience with Klinspor


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

b2rtch, I agree. I love the Klingsopr paper. I probably have enough of it to last me a year at this point. I would be nice to have other options though of decent quality - which is the reason I got the diablo stuff in the first place. I was late Sunday afternoon and I was out of 150 grit. Woodcraft was closed, so I had to go to Home Depot. A crappy piece of sandpaper that going to leave scratches in your work because it isn't adhering correctly can ruin your entire project or create a ton more work.


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

Thank you , Joe.
I've also used the compressed air trick on mine.
I don't know how the Milwaukee and Bosch are constructed , but my PC units have a small "rubber band" that acts as a brake to prevent the disk from over-revving and also maintaining its orbital nature when lifted off the surface or when not in full contact with the wood. When the band gets worn or breaks , the orbital sander then acts like a grinder ,spinning in a circle , rather than maintaining its orbital motion. You probably already knew that, though , and I'm not saying this is /was related to your issues. 
Just offering up some personal findings of my own : )


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

Yes, I have seen the "grinder" effect, however I have never been able to sand a concave divot in hardwood that easily with other brands of 150 grit. I'm talking belt sander style gouges.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

I agree that Frued DOES listen and DOES have good customer service in general.


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

DAMN ! That's some serious aggression !
Time for lunch…have a great day , Joe : )


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

Spinning - Does the DeWalt use the same rubberband method? I know of 4-5 units that have that same problem. I would like to get the parts and fix them if it would not break the bank.


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

Overall, I have been impressed with my dealings with Freud in both personal and professional capacities. They really do seem to care about their products and image. Home Depot, not so much. Whichever company initiated the process of improvement, it works out for you and hopefully future consumers, as well.


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

*@rance,* I would either take the H&L pad off and have a look , or look at the parts manual (if you have one) or look it up online for your model number. Basically , if the sander runs at full speed like a grinder with little to no orbital action , then you have a problem with the braking mechanism, no matter what they use : )

Did a quick search not knowing your model number(s) and found this for you
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/dewalt-d26456-type-palm-grip-sander-parts-c-1009_2742_157678.html
part # 18 is the Brake on this model.


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## ssnvet (Jan 10, 2012)

Whether the customer service is motivated by altruistic good will or just good business practices, I appreciate it when I get it….

I've had a couple consultations with the "Nail Doctor" (a phd engineer) at Stanley-Bostich, when the rep that services our account at work couldn't answer my questions. This guy really new his stuff and new all of the specifications (some were old mil. specs) I was trying to comply with.


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## Everett1 (Jun 18, 2011)

I'm a huge fan of Klingspor personally, but I had some cutting boards that I was on a really tight time budget to get finished, so I couldn't wait for an order of Klingspor to arrive. Lowes sells that Gator paper, which is COMPLETE garbage. If I needed paper in a jam, I always go to Home Depot, since they always had Norton paper. They've switched to Freud, so I got that in my most recent jam, and it worked totally fine for me. Lasted a good long while sanding the endgrain on the boards.

It says it's a "ceramic-blend", which from what I have read, is harsher and lasts longer than typical Aluminum Oxide which I get. So, being "cheap" i bought 50 packs of 60, 100, 150, and 220. They will be my end-grain cutting board reserve.

My theory as to the adhesion problems the tiny holes allow dust onto the backing


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

I think the most disappointing paper that I've used has been the 3M brand (name escapes me right now) that is a "fits-all" design and ends up almost being more holes than sanding surface , which really loaded up the H&L pads on my sanders. Not that the grit was bad , just didn't care for the cost versus the amount of sanding surface on the disc , and having to clean the dust build up from my pad before applying the next disc to it. I also had to wonder if the hooks were being worn down or deformed in the areas not covered by paper.


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

I too am a Klingspor convert, after reading about it in a magazine where it topped every other brand.
But my hit with the Diablo was not with the agressive cut, although it was more agressive. That I can compensate for.
My problem was those little holes clogged and the dust just poured out the sides of the sheet, rather than come up into the bag. I just could not use it, too dusty after about 30 seconds. I still have some lying around I won't use, and it is selling poorly at HD, at least at my HD.


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

Dusty I think you are talking about that 5-8 hole covers both units design, which I agree, not enough paper and it clogs the H&L. I also stopped using that. Wore out fast in the center. Norton made some of it, and like you, I can't remember the 3M brand.


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

Ev, out of curiosity does your ROS have 5 holes or 8 holes?


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

I use Klinspor also. Always been satisfied with it.
That said,glad you are at least getting some feedback from HD, for whatever their reason is. Bottom line the consumer/customer is where it's at for any big box store.


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

Hi Tennessee , you're correct : )


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Dusty56, it looks like you paid for holes more than for sand paper. 
If you are interested I can sale you more holes very cheap!


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

Yikes! It amazes me that someone actually put that in a package with their companies logo on it. I do agree with most of the above. Even if Freud can fix the H&L problem, I will be buying Klingspor paper. As I mentioned, it would be nice to know there is still a quality alternative available 3 miles away at a store that is open pretty early and pretty late. I tend to get caught off guard sometimes with consumables (sand paper and foam brushes are the two biggest culprits) which I should do a better job of keeping track of.

Also a lot of the finishes I apply need significant drying time, so I like to get the finish down before I go to sleep. If I have to wait until the morning when a store that sells klingspor opens, I just lost 12 to 14 hours of project time while stuff is just sitting there drying and I can't touch it.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

lumberjoe, I buy from Klinspor on line or by phone. 
Their customer service is excellent.
They even made special sanding pad for me on order for a very reasonable price and in a very good time


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

*O'k Bert *, how much are you charging for holes ? LOL


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## BigAl98 (Jan 29, 2010)

This sounds like a too good to be true! Lets see how it pans out. Sending you some test pieces to try is the easy part, analyzing and implementing is the hard part.

Good luck…also if I was you I'd go bet on the lottery…this event really was a one in a million.

al


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

Al, I think this may become more common in the very near future. Some companies really care about their reputation. I have a feeling Freud initiated this conversation. There is a fairly new company out there (and I am sure there will be copy cats soon) called reputation.com. They scan the internet for negative feedback about your company/products and then alert you. There is some intelligence that goes on in the background (we all know how subjective and inaccurate reviews can be). This started off as a service for high profile individuals (doctors, lawyers) but has no moved into a more brand focused service.

I've had a few interactions with Freud, they seem to *really* value their image and I would not be surprised if they use this service, or something like it


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## KenBry (Sep 13, 2011)

Freud should be testing this in their facilities not in your home. They should be well aware of the problems that people are talking about and aggressivly fixing it. Also they should have known about the "issue" before sending it to market. But they have gone cheap and are now suffering the wrath of the consumer. I appreciate that they want to "include" you. But what a bunch of bull hockey…

I worked for HD and yes they stress good customer service, 90% of the employees provide that very well. But they screwed up pulling the Norton and going to all Freud and they know it now. Now they are trying to salvage it.


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## LukieB (Jan 8, 2012)

Makes me feel good about how much of my money I've contributed to both of these particular compinies


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

KenBry as someone who designs things there is really no way of knowing how everything will be used by users and what is important to them. Frued probably did test their sandpaper but I doubt pulling it on and off sanders several times occured to them. Something I am amazed by on here is that people use the quick trigger type clamps for glueups, never occured to me to use this type of clamp for a glue up.


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## Countersunk (Jun 27, 2012)

I've had better experiences at HD lately also. I clearly feel that Home Depot seems to be trying to understand the customer more than Lowe's at this point, in my area anyway.

I too would rather see them stock some other brands like Klingspor and Norton, but then again, maybe they'd just drag down the quality of those two brands with pricing pressure, I don't know how that works behind the scenes with all the cute marketing crap that goes on these days. If Norton wasn't Liked enough on Fullofmyself or Klingspor weren't thumbed up on Saveyourself, what would happen?

Funny sidestory: I needed stainless steel siding nails recently. Where did I end up getting them? Amazon. How tragic is that? It isn't just Lowes and HD either. Even the places I get my cedar siding from don't stock the nail I prefer to use for it. It gets weirder. I ended up ordering 5lbs of siding nails from Amazon along with an oxygen sensor I couldn't find at Autozone and some Oakley lense replacements I couldn't find at Sunglass Hut. I'm not kidding for effect either! I can't observe this without thinking that the next generation of brick and mortar is waiting to be born and if the weirdness continues along the same lines, it could be Amazon themselves. And then my experience gets funny. No lie, while I'm waiting for the nails to arrive, three or four people, in different conversations, ask me how to keep corrosion stains out of their siding! What do I tell them? Next time go to Amazon for some real nails?!

Let us know how it goes with the sandpaper test Joe! I'm curious to see how they follow up.


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## 58j35bonanza (Jan 11, 2011)

I wish i had something good to say about my visit today with Home Depot. The manager in the Roanoke, VA store is a very arrogant person. I tried to use a Harbor Freight coupon and he told me they didn't accept them. I have always used them without any problem, I think it is how this guys attitude was. But from now on it's only going to be LOWE'S for me. I had called the help line at HD and they called the store manager to see if he would take it and he refused so must be they have a new policy. After looking on the stores web-site a women is listed as the store manager so I guess this (Jeffry McClain-Bey} but be a temp or something.


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## cutworm (Oct 2, 2010)

As far as customer service goes you can't beat Home Depot or Lowes. The staff at Home Depot seem to be more available and helpful.


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

Looks like the guys from Freud made good on their promise. Now to do some sanding and send a few sheets back


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

Is this the new and improved , or the same stuff you've had problems with ?


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

They didn't mention, but the packaging is different. It makes mention to a "Hook and Lock" technology that my previous packaging did not. I have an obscene stockpile of Klingspor paper and am hesitant to use this on stuff that matters, but I will work down a few pieces of scrap and provide them with feedback.


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

I'd be interested in seeing how well those dust holes line up with my PC sander holes. Got to be better than those 3M discs that I have.


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

Terrible:

Pre attachment









Attached (only 3 of the pin holes lined up









After sanding 220 grit, red oak, positive pressure DC (shop vac)









Edit - Kilngspor:









After sanding


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

I've got the old 5 hole , 5" PC unit…..did you say yours is a Bosch ?


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

I have a Milwaukee and and older bosch. Pictured is the bosch


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## Woodsurgin (Apr 2, 2011)

I bought a couple of cordless drill from Home Depot. The 18v drill kept shutting off. I took it back and they said I would have to take it to a service center, which was 70 miles away! At today's gas prices, I told them I'd be better off chucking the drill and getting something else. Why can't they send tools out from the store? Duh!


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## 9FINGERTIM (Feb 1, 2013)

A friend showed me a small hand held sander he had just bought at hd,I coudent help but notice that it had a dust catcher bag on it but no holes at all on the sanding face, interesting design flaw eh?


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