# Two huge pin oak trees, why do they say it is not good for woodworking



## ohtimberwolf (Dec 17, 2011)

About to take down two huge pin oak trees over 80 ft tall. They tell me the wood is no good for anything but fireplace, railroad ties or pallets. Can anyone tell me why this is?


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Well, a lot of species are not commercially viable to the
lumber industry, but for you the trees might yield
some wood you can use.

You might ask on the Forestry forums where there
a lot of people who know plenty about this kind
of small-scale lumbermaking.


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## mpsprunger (Apr 22, 2013)

I've used it to build a nice chest. the wood looks very and finishes as regular oak did. i had it sawed and 
kiln dried very well. I will use it again cause I have plenty


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## JJohnston (May 22, 2009)

I don't know that "good for railroad ties" = "no good for woodworking". They used to use old growth chestnut for railroad ties until the blight got it.


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## ohtimberwolf (Dec 17, 2011)

Maybe it is a local thing. Sometimes when people get something into their head they can't get it out and pass it on as cut in stone. Thanks guys.


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## hydro (Aug 9, 2013)

Sounds like a case of "Ignorance is Bliss" on the nay sayers. Marcus' comment is empirical proof that the wood is indeed useable. Time to get it to the sawmill!


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## richardwootton (Jan 17, 2013)

I want to see some pictures of this stuff after you get it milled. If I were you I'd quarter saw one of those logs.


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## JustJoe (Oct 26, 2012)

It's the Man's way of keeping us down - a big conspiracy on the part of the Military-Forestry-Complex. The same robber-barons that own big-banking and big-oil also control the harvesting rights to our nation's wood preserves. They want to keep us hooked on their oak, walnut and cherry and when it runs out they'll push into their cheap common hormone-fed pine. But it won't be so cheap then, no they'll have bought their senators and put all sorts of protectionist tariffs on imported exotics. Mark my words people! You'll be building your grand-daughter a china hutch using 30 dollar 2×4s. Me? I'm hoarding the good stuff in my bomb shelter and waiting out the storm….


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## Jofa (May 14, 2013)

^ that's just an awesome post! LOL!!!!

I tend to think every piece of wood has its use. I recently did well with a piece of oak firewood that I sawed into useable boards and the cutting board that resulted had a really nice grain to it. You might be surprised at how nice that pine is once you start milling it.


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

Pine oak; never heard of it. Maybe what they call here in the south as post oak. either way, the trunks near the roots should provide some nice grain regardless of what kind of oak it is.


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## ksSlim (Jun 27, 2010)

Pin Oak is a member of the RedOak family. One of its's many charms is many branches.
That being said, Knots galore. Properly sawn and dried, it is Red Oak lumber.
Red Oak is very common in some areas. Years ago, in my neck of the woods, 
they cut Black Walnut for railroad ties. 
To me, that was totaly against anything a woodworker could understand.

Got wood, make use of it, any way, any how, any time.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Sometime you just have to ask Google.

http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/pin-oak/


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## ohtimberwolf (Dec 17, 2011)

Thanks for all the help guys, lots of good info and thanks Alaska for the link-very informative. Now, for the bad.

The saw mill will NOT take them because they are in front of my home ( yard trees ). Three feet around and logs up 20 feet to the limbs that have not been trimmed off in the past 60 or 70 years. If even one of these fell on my house it would totally destroy it.

Thought I might be able to get a nice pile of lumber out of them but I guess they will have to go as I have no way of getting them sawn. $3125 to get them down, hauled away, ground out roots , 2 (20ft diameter spread) and 16 shrubs 55yrs old taken out, roots ground and all of this filled and leveled with mulch until the winter is over. Just thought I might get SOMETHING out of such big trees besides a bill.


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## fumehappy (Mar 26, 2012)

Well you could try splitting/riving into flitches. Try a knot free three or four foot section. Works great!


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## richardwootton (Jan 17, 2013)

Well it would be cheaper to buy a big a$$ chain saw and a chain saw mill and just have an arborist fell the trees for you then mill it yourself. Then you could keep the saw and mill to use for further use, or you could sell it and recoup a part of your money.


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## quvia (Nov 1, 2013)

I love proving people wrong and using wood everyone thinks is junk. Prove them wrong and lets see what you can do.


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## JustJoe (Oct 26, 2012)

Don't give up just yet. The big-boys won't touch them for the reason you stated but there are plenty of traveling hobby-sawyers with woodmizers or similar rigs that specialize in city trees. A regular tree-removal company can get it down in as large a piece as possible for you. It might not be 20' logs, but they should be able to get you 8-10' with some work. Then find someone with a woodmizer to do the cutting right there for you.
Here's one site to find a sawyer. There are probably others if you google:

http://www.woodmizer.com/us/ResourceCenter/FindaCustomSawyer.aspx


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## HerbC (Jul 28, 2010)

+1 on looking for someone who owns a small bandmill sawmill to saw your logs into lumber.

Have fun.

Be Careful!

Herb


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

I wouldn't hesitate to take it all. I feel I can decide later what I do with it. There's a lot of projects made here out of what others thought would be firewood.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

Around Louisville a number of guys with portable saw mills are on Craigslist. Search for lumber and sawmill.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

I built my dining room table with pin oak that came from a tree that went down in my grandmas yard. As someone already said it sold as red oak. I have read that it can be difficult to dry and I can concur. I let mine dry for what I thought was a long time. Not. It shrunk on me after I built the table. I still love the table. I would not give up on it.


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## bowedcurly (Aug 31, 2013)

very knotty especially if they are in the yard where there is no competition for sunlight, I think, but if you like knots like me they will be great


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## darthford (Feb 17, 2013)

Same thing with fir trees here, fir trees growing in our yards have gobs of limbs and low value, fir trees growing in a crowed forest have fewer limbs and grow taller trying to reach the sun. Or so the logging company told me, they were not even interested in my 13 fir trees for free.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

As others mentioned, there is without a doubt somebody around you with a portable sawmill. Just find that person, have the tree people fell the tree and cut it into ~20ft sections and leave it alone.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I'd advertise on craigs list looking for a sawyer to split the lumber with you. I'd do it if we were closer. What do you have to lose.


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## ohtimberwolf (Dec 17, 2011)

All you guys have some great advice and I would follow much of it but I live right in town and can't let anything lay around.

Tried to give it to an Amishman with a saw mill and they were not interested not even for firewood. If I were still out on the 7 acres that we sold I would do most of what you all say but I'm afraid my options are quite limited to maybe some smaller limbs that I can cut on my band saw and dry in the garage. Thanks a million for all the help and info on the wood.

I guess I had better end this post because you guys are making me feel really bad as I hate to waste anything. Thanks again…..


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## Danpaddles (Jan 26, 2012)

Yard/ found wood sounds like a bargain, until you have to buy a new blade for a sawmill. But you might look for someone with a Woodmizer, they may give it a try.

Pin oak is red oak, like the man said. I think it may be a little 'stringier' than some other oaks, not sure it turns as well, but I could be full of crap on that. I have an oak board now, that is very light, both in weight and color. I have not used it for anything besides a shave horse, because it is not very attractive. Now you have me wondering if it is pin oak.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

It makes good firewood too.


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## bowedcurly (Aug 31, 2013)

A pin oak looks like a pine when it grows lots of limbs lots of knots usually straight but the wood is light with no real grain pattern here in KY that is, now somewhere else there could be a difference, but I prefer nice straight red oak or white oak Quarter sawn, but with a little dye and some finishing magic it can be a master pc, have a good day


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## Danpaddles (Jan 26, 2012)

Watch out for limbs, the growth rings are uneven, with stresses beyond what you see in trunks. Usually not very stable.


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## pauljuilleret (Nov 16, 2013)

I see you are from Wayne county call Gross Lumber they are just south west of Orrville they deal in hard wood so they will know all about it they also do kiln drying there also I get almost all my wood from them it's all rough cut but good stuff talk with Rick or Eli they are good folks. I just live north of them about ten miles so it's a lot closer than the Holmes county saw mills.


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## ohtimberwolf (Dec 17, 2011)

Thanks, you guys are real pals when it comes to information.

Paul, I may go to Gross Lumber and see what all they have as I have planer. You must be somewhere near Rittman.


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## boodabitt (Feb 16, 2016)

I just had some pin oak milled. Pretty wood. My favorite oak.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> I just had some pin oak milled. Pretty wood. My favorite oak.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you a pallet maker?


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

Many mills won't touch it because it may have nails/etc. having been located near a place of residence of so many years.

I got some Pin Oak from pallets, it had a distinct brown color and was very dense, sg over 1.0 (would not float)


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## teejk02 (Apr 27, 2015)

Some of my more interesting projects have come from "junk" wood…some pretty nasty checks on those boards (that will probably get worse). But the beauty of the wood is amazing…will just require the right application I think (and a lot of time/effort).


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

From a cursory lookup, it seems like pin oak is also known as swamp oak or water oak? If so, I have a ton of it around my property and use it for all sorts of stuff. It makes some really interesting turning projects, particularly the knot and crotch areas. I usually let a fallen tree sit for a few months to a year so it gets some really spectacular spalting as well. My slabs turn out looking like the above pictures when first cut (wet), but the red subsides quite a bit as it dries out.

Cheers,
Brad


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## ohtimberwolf (Dec 17, 2011)

Brad,
I had no idea it was considered swamp oak. I had to split some swamp oak in GA and it was so wiry (stringy) I thought I would never get it apart. In this area they are generally considered nice lawn trees. However, the ones that were in my yard are now history. The cutter took it all away for me except some pieces I have saved to try to make something out of for a keepsake. larry


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

What whimps. A real mill would go for broke, and use blades that could cut right through those old swing spikes and stuff.



> Thanks for all the help guys, lots of good info and thanks Alaska for the link-very informative. Now, for the bad.
> 
> The saw mill will NOT take them because they are in front of my home ( yard trees ). Three feet around and logs up 20 feet to the limbs that have not been trimmed off in the past 60 or 70 years. If even one of these fell on my house it would totally destroy it.
> 
> ...


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

After forty years of random sawdust making, I'm of the conclusion anyone who says wood type A cannot be used should not be allowed near a wood shop. What works good for one project may not work well for another, because of knots, due to softness or whatever. It may work great for the ultimate wine work, spurtle or hope chest, however.

Said another way, it wasn't that long ago I heard people bad mouthing poplar. While it is soft, it replaces fast, and makes a good base for paint grade projects.

Dig a bit and you'll find similar examples, be it regarding olive wood or whatever. Said another way, if it aint oak/walnut/maple/. . ., it aint really wood, right (damn that mahogany crap they foist off on us).


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

I probably didn't dry it well enough. I didn't know about such things when I built my table from a pin oak that used to grow in my grandmas yard, but came down in a tornado. I remembered that tree from when I was a kid. I really wanted to make something from it, so I built my dining table from it. I made mistakes like framing a panel instead of making breadboard ends. The glued up panel shrunk and cracked. I love the table and don't regret using pin oak. Next time I use pin oak I will measure the moisture content and be sure it is ready for use. I have been told it takes longer to dry than other species. Use pin oak, it looks great.


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## ohtimberwolf (Dec 17, 2011)

You all are making me feel really bad but I had no choice. I would love to have a pile of lumber stacked where I could see it but…....


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## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> After forty years of random sawdust making, I m of the conclusion anyone who says wood type A cannot be used should not be allowed near a wood shop. What works good for one project may not work well for another, because of knots, due to softness or whatever. It may work great for the ultimate wine work, spurtle or hope chest, however.
> 
> Said another way, it wasn t that long ago I heard people bad mouthing poplar. While it is soft, it replaces fast, and makes a good base for paint grade projects.
> 
> ...


Well said,

I was going to comment about how can it be crap to some and nice to others? I think you said it better.


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## ohtimberwolf (Dec 17, 2011)

#43 POST IS SPAM


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

You didn't do anything wrong, you just experimented and set the stage for a more detailed project.

For example, I have a lot of cherry and apple I pull from the thousands of acres of orchards around me. Some I dry properly, some I don't. When I get splits, because of my inattention [or errors], I mix some epoxy and fill the cracks. Sometimes I use clear and other times I mix in powders I pick up from hobby stores.

A while back, I made some faux turquoise using oyster shells and turquoise powder. I filled carvings on a rattle with it and it didn't turn out half bad.



> I probably didn t dry it well enough. I didn t know about such things when I built my table from a pin oak that used to grow in my grandmas yard, but came down in a tornado. I remembered that tree from when I was a kid. I really wanted to make something from it, so I built my dining table from it. I made mistakes like framing a panel instead of making breadboard ends. The glued up panel shrunk and cracked. I love the table and don t regret using pin oak. Next time I use pin oak I will measure the moisture content and be sure it is ready for use. I have been told it takes longer to dry than other species. Use pin oak, it looks great.
> 
> - firefighterontheside


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Lumber yards used to scoff at my efforts to use their 2x stock for picture frames. Decades later, they are doing fine and still look nice, even though the wide grain and such would cause many to say it was garbage, for fine woodworking.

[The tree frame is about 5' tall, the unicorn frame is hollow and from 2×8's]


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## DwightC (Apr 10, 2016)

relatively few species of domestic hardwoods are sold commercially. I'm sure there are sound economic reasons for that, and if the biggest volumes of business are in flooring, installed cabinetry and mass produced furniture, it makes sense-considering the importance of delivering a standardized, consistent product. But, if you get into custom furniture making, whether commercially or as a hobby, the varieties of hardwood that are available around the country is astonishing. If quarter sawn pin oak is just quarter sawn red oak, it can be beautiful (and different from quarter sawn white oak-the ray structure isn't so pronounced).


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

I have no idea where you live, but here in Atlanta, GA there are some small sawyers with portable bandsaw mills that are towed behind a truck. Google "portable sawmill" with your local area name attached. You should find a couple. I would imagine you would have to have a professional tree service take the tree down, then have the individual with the bandsaw mill saw it up. It would be wise to make sure the logs were sawed to a length by the tree service suitable for the portable mill. The reason many saw mills don't want to take trees from homes and urban areas is that they often run into nails and other metal that have been driven into the tree. This damages the saw creating a considerable repair expense.

Planeman


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

No thanks Ted.


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## mds2 (Jan 28, 2013)

I've never used it by my sawyer had some huge QS Pin oak last time I was there. Very pretty. If you like QS white oak, you'd like QS pin oak.


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## Kirk650 (May 8, 2016)

Red oak isn't my favorite oak to work with, but it'll do. I have plenty of it from downed trees on our little ranch in the country. I'd love to have the OP's tree to have milled. I love straight grained oak.


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## ohtimberwolf (Dec 17, 2011)

Wow, some spammer (which I hate) revived this post and unintentionally made it interesting again.

Thanks for the new input guys but now I really wish I had known all of this sooner. I would have worked harder at saving some of it. larry


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## GerryB (May 1, 2011)

I had a trunk log of Chinquapin oak about 25 feet long & around 4 feet in diameter. I asked the local sawyer, he said as it dried tit would "squirm around like a bunch of snakes." I made firewood , Later three different folks asked what I did with it. Two were offering handsome prices for it. . . . .


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