# Banquette build....my first furniture attempt



## Woodchuck4 (Jun 27, 2012)

*The beginning*

Update (12-2-12)

So i've made the leap and started the build. I decided to make the structure framing out of 3/4" domestic birch. I pocket hole and glued the end pieces and then used 3" screws and glue to attached the horizontal supports to the end pieces. after some test sits from multiple people of different weights, it seems to hold up very well and have no flex at all. On the plus side the framing seems to be surprisingly light as well.

I now have ran into a situation I need to make a decision on. The plywood seats will lift up to allow for storage underneath. I originally bought some piano hinges, but after looking at it and thinking, I'm now debating on if there might be a better hinge. The piano hinge would work, but would also be seen and have a seam/crack on either side since the hinge wouldn't go the complete length of the seat. I'm trying to decide if I could use some type of chest/box lid hinge or some type of cabinet hinge that would be mounted underneath and allow for a cleaner look on the top. I'm still researching this, but if anyone has done something like that before, please let me know what you did or any ideas you might have.

Once I get the hinge thing figured out it'll be time to cut the finished ply. I went with maple ply for the seat, seat back, and the back back of the banquette. I will update more as I get more progress made. Here are some pics. It looks to be a good fit in the kitchen breakfast area.

P.S. - I do have horizontal supports for the back. I just don't have them on there because with the hinge thing I'm trying to decide where exactly I will locate them. Also because I have mortises cut out into them for a support to run from the front to the back of the seat in in the middle of the large open seat area.




































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To start off, I started this as a forum post and decided to move it to a blog to not only get help/input along the way, but to also keep those that help updated on how it comes along.

Originally posted in forum (10-5-12)

So, a little back story….we were borrowing our kitchen table and chairs from a friend of the family, and a month ago they needed it back. we now have a big empty breakfast area. I've been holding off the wife from buying something with the promise that I would build her a banquette. So I went to Google images and got a lot of different designs for her to choose from. Below is the one she choose. Ours will be slightly different. It will have that nice end on both ends and we won't have the cut out in the back rest for (what i'm guessing was a window).

Now i'm one to research to the nth degree. There are some key things I need help on, but being my first big furniture build attempt i'm welcoming any and all advise, tips, help, 2 cents, etc. that anyone wants to throw into the ring.




























A few of the things I need help with:

1) the structure/framing? I want it to be sturdy but not weight a million pounds. would 1×4s, 2×4s or what be best to create the frame? I've seen lots of ways people have done it but I'm just not sure which direction to run.

2) I have made some raised panel doors before, and so the drawer and "face" frame around it I think I understand. What is getting me is what looks like 4×4 post on the front corner and the arch piece. Is that boards face glued, or a structure that was veneered? It might be obvious, but being such a new woodworker my knowledge and "deconstructing" abilities are limited.

3) Honestly, i'm not even sure what wood to use for the finish pieces. Since my wife would like it to be stained I know I need to pay attention to making sure to hide end grains, type of wood, and other fine touches that take it from a beginner attempt to that fine piece of furniture that people admire and think you spent a fortune on.

I'm good at following directions and I love problem solving, but this is one project I think is too big to have multiple tries at it so I'd really like to get it right the first time.

I appreciate everyone that took to time to read this cry for help from a young starter, and I don't be shy to tell me I'm just plain crazy for even thinking of attempting this. I am the type that seems to pick the big hill to climb and the run up it.

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Update (11-5-12)

So, I've had a busy past 4 weeks, but I FINALLY got some time in the garage this past weekend to try out some tests on this project.

Here is a sample/experimental section that I made to see if the seat height, seat depth, back height, and back angle all worked and were comfortable….AKA if they passed the wife test. Happy to report she was pleased with all dimensions.

For this test I used 1×4 pine for most of the structure minus the two back side pieces. they required about 5-1/2" to account for the angle cut in them. I laid out the 10 degree angle on the back pieces, then cut about 1/16th from the line with a circular saw and sanded to the line. The plywood is 1/4" (because that's what I had around the garage) but the real thing will have 1/2". I did a 10 degree bevel on the back plywood panel so it set flush on the seat and at the top of the back. The seat was sturdy, no wiggle, or movement on it.

So my question is….does anyone see a design/structural flaw with this method or assembly? Is there an easier or better way to do this? My logic was by cutting the back angle into the single piece that is also the back leg would be the strogest method. Plus the person would be sitting against the edge of the board. Again, this is my beginners logic…I could be totally off.

The seat support that you see in the 3rd picture. I'm thinking of doing a slight dado in the front/rear cross supports and stand that board on edge for strength. I'm still working on this part of it. The reason being is I would like the support, but I am also going to make the instead of this storage and would like to be able to remove the cross support to put things in and then re-insert it.

I appreciate any and all feedback….good, bad, or ugly. I want to make this right and who better to ask then all you great and experienced woodworkers on here.


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## toddc (Mar 6, 2007)

Woodchuck4 said:


> *The beginning*
> 
> Update (12-2-12)
> 
> ...


Can I just call you with help? I do this for a living.

Sorry I did not see your earlier post.

You have a great design, it is nicer than the one I did.


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## BTimmons (Aug 6, 2011)

Woodchuck4 said:


> *The beginning*
> 
> Update (12-2-12)
> 
> ...


Cool, another local guy. As for the sturdiness of your project, I have to ask what may be a silly question. Have you tried sitting in it? If so, how did it feel? Once you add more sections, it'll be even more sturdy.


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## Woodchuck4 (Jun 27, 2012)

Woodchuck4 said:


> *The beginning*
> 
> Update (12-2-12)
> 
> ...


@Todd - Yeah, that would be really great! That is exactly what I was hoping for. To talk to someone that really does have a real knowledge and willing to teach a young buck. I'll send you a PM with my contact info.

@BTimmons - Is it bad my first thought when I read you post and saw "Arlington" my first thought was, "Ooohh…he is really close to Rockler!"? I like meeting local people on here. I really like that jewerly box you made for your wife. I believe there are no stupid questions. I have actually sat on it. I sat on it, had the wife sit on it, and a buddy. That way I had multiple height of people test it out. It was very sturdy…I went as far as to stand and do a few jumps on it. I think I'll make the real thing in two sections. One longer than the other to travel to the corner and the shorter one butting up to it.


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## BTimmons (Aug 6, 2011)

Woodchuck4 said:


> *The beginning*
> 
> Update (12-2-12)
> 
> ...


Nathan,

Thanks (about the jewelry box)! Yeah, I'm about a ten minute drive from Rockler. It's nice when I have a little extra to throw around, which isn't that often.

As for the stability of the project at hand, it seems ok to me. Everything else is just trim work from here.


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

Woodchuck4 said:


> *The beginning*
> 
> Update (12-2-12)
> 
> ...


Nathan,

Although a smaller scale here is a similar design I made some years ago for a friends daughter



















So your design concept is OK.

If you were to use them ouside the only mod I would consider is possibly raise the height of the horizontal sections at the leg bases slightly to allow use on uneven surfaces, but that not they were designed for.

Good Job!


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## Woodchuck4 (Jun 27, 2012)

Woodchuck4 said:


> *The beginning*
> 
> Update (12-2-12)
> 
> ...


@Robert - Thanks for commenting. I should have updated this a LONG time ago too. It's still not finished (sadly), but i'm in the sanding phase in prep for stain. I'll post some updated pictures soon.


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## beginnerww (Dec 29, 2018)

Woodchuck4 said:


> *The beginning*
> 
> Update (12-2-12)
> 
> ...


Hi Nathan
I also saw this design on google and loved it. I would really appreciate it if you are willing to share some of your plans and tips on this project. I am new to woodwork but my father has all the machinery and says he can help me if I have plans. I wouldn't know where to start when drawing these plans so any help would really be appreciated.

Kind regards 
Karin - JhB, South africa
[email protected]


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## Woodchuck4 (Jun 27, 2012)

Woodchuck4 said:


> *The beginning*
> 
> Update (12-2-12)
> 
> ...


@beginnerww - I actually drew this up in Sketchup. Do you use that freeware at all? If so I can send you the file.


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## Woodchuck4 (Jun 27, 2012)

*Almost done (Bad first time blogging)*

So, I feel like my first blog attempt was a failure to anyone that read the first one and was interesting in seeing it progress. The first of this series was like show starting and then being cancelled after episode one ha.

Enough of my rambling. After two years, a new job, two little additions to the family, and a few other projects crammed in front of this one I am almost done. Being 100% honest some of the delay was from intimidation and frustration as well. I took a REALLY big bite when I took this project on. I didn't have all the tools that would have made it easier so I had to improvise and get creative in some places.

Since I was bad about updating the series I'll give the cliff notes and answer any questions/suggestion/comments as they come.

I left off the first part having the frame built and talking about the piano hinge. Here are some progression pictures to catch up.










I stayed with the piano hinges.


















I dado'd out a notch for the middle seat support. I don't know that the lid really needed the support, but I'd rather have it than someone's bottom fall through. I did, however, make the support removable so longer things could be stored inside.



















Well, I don't own a bandsaw (really want one though) so this is where I had to get creative on how I was going to make the 3" thick side arm pieces. I also wanted to try and keep the furniture light. Here are some test pieces that I made.

I just used 3/4" stock to build up the 3"x3" legs.









The bevel cuts lined up better on the actual pieces I made. That pine wasn't the straightest wood.









I then used some carpet tape and my scroll saw to cut out the curve that's in the front of the arm piece.









Then I cut a bunch of little pieces to block out the two sides to equal the 3" width of the legs shown earlier.









After that I test fit the two together.









To fill the face of the curve I cut a very thin piece of maple with my table saw and soaked it in the bath tub for a bit. I then used the other side of the curve that I cut earlier on the scroll saw as my clamping block to make it easier to clamp.









I then worked on the cap piece, and that is where I got my first lesson on paying attention to wood grain direction and routing on the router table.









Needless to say I had to make another piece. This time I was smart enough to do a back cut and then feed the normal direction to finish the cut. I notched out the top to ensure an equal overhang on each side.









It might be hard to see, but I was worried about a 3/4" strip of wood being the only thing holding one of the piano hinges up so I tried to think of a way to beef it up so to speak. After a little doodling I came up with this. I took a 4" wide piece of plywood, notched it out so the 3/4" would only be visible, and cut a groove for the seat back veneer plywood panel to slide down into (serves as a double purpose to keep any gaps from showing if the panel/wood shrinks). I then pocket holed that 4" wide board into the vertical parts of the frame and it is now rock solid.









I also wanted this piece to come apart into two pieces for ease of moving and passing through doors. It was easy for the seat part. I just used for lag bolts to connect the two pieces, but where I really had trouble was with the seat back in the corner. I needed something that could stand up to someone putting their hand/body weight against as they slide out from the corner, but yet was easy to take apart. 
Since i'm not a furniture maker or craftsman by trade the answer eluded me. This was a stalling/frustration point for me for a while. Eventually I came up with this idea. I'm sure there was an easier and better way to do it, but it was the best that my brain could fathom. So what I did was carry that 4" wide piece I talked about earlier across; along with the the seat back rails. I then made a tapered piece for the seat back rails to connect to permanently. I think used 3 screws (top, middle, lower) and screwed the tapered piece through the back and into the rails of the longer bench side. This was enough to make the seat back feel permanent when together yet was easy enough to take apart when desired once the back panel was removed.









Then I was racking my brain on how to attach the 1/4" veneered seat back plywood panels. I didn't want to use nails for fear of when I stained it the back would look like a leopard covered in wood filled spots. My buddy that does a lot of wood working said there was a spray adhesive that was strong enough to hold it. So with his help that is exactly what I did and it has been holding well.

The top cap that sits on the seat back I didn't want to just slap on there as well. I tried to put thought into where gaps might show if any part of the structure shrank. It also covered any unlevelness along the top that might have been there. So I dado'd a groove down the top cap to allow a slight over hang on the front and the back. In fact the nail holes in the top of the cap are the only visible nails, screws, etc. fasteners that can been see. I did my best to keep everything on the inside.









Next up was the face frame/panels on the bottom front. I actually made these like you would a cabinet door. They have rails/stiles with a "shaker" panel. I just cut a 1/4" groove for the panels to fit in. I took the panel and made sure to put them in each section by order they were cut to make sure the grain flowed across from one panel to the next. I know no one will probably ever see that detail once a table is put in front of it, but I think trying to make every detail as perfect as you can be keeps the mind ever thinking of how to improve and innovate.

Once the panels were assembled I screwed them on from the inside through the plywood structure frame to pull the frames to the structure and again hide any visible fastener marks.

I'm finally at the sanding stage and it by far has been the most time consuming. I'm sanding with 220 as fine as I can to try and close up the grain as much as possible since I made the silly mistake as an amateur wood worker and buying maple knowing that the wife wanted it in a medium stain. Rookie move that I'll NEVER make again. Also with some test pieces and stain I've been fighting with the grain flip and it being blotchy. I've tried some pre-stain conditioner which helped some.

The stain I was playing with was from Sherwin Williams. It's a good stain, but just having issues. I haven't played with gel stains before so I don't know if those would work better or not. Minwax has been the only other thing I've used. Like I said, amateur wood worker so I don't have many stain projects under my belt. If anyone has suggestions I am all ears. I'm terrified to death that I spent all this time building this and I might mess it up finishing it.









I hope you enjoyed reading my work in progress, and if anyone else was working on something similar I might help them avoid some of my mistakes that I've gone through.


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## DLC (Dec 18, 2013)

Woodchuck4 said:


> *Almost done (Bad first time blogging)*
> 
> So, I feel like my first blog attempt was a failure to anyone that read the first one and was interesting in seeing it progress. The first of this series was like show starting and then being cancelled after episode one ha.
> 
> ...


I made a rookie mistake and used poplar for a large bookcase I was building (and which I intended to stain). I didn't know that poplar blotches badly. I ended up using a gel stain and that worked really well to control the blotching, so I might suggest that for your maple. Nice build by the way, looks great.


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## SPHinTampa (Apr 23, 2008)

Woodchuck4 said:


> *Almost done (Bad first time blogging)*
> 
> So, I feel like my first blog attempt was a failure to anyone that read the first one and was interesting in seeing it progress. The first of this series was like show starting and then being cancelled after episode one ha.
> 
> ...


Nicely documented and very interesting.


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## Woodchuck4 (Jun 27, 2012)

Woodchuck4 said:


> *Almost done (Bad first time blogging)*
> 
> So, I feel like my first blog attempt was a failure to anyone that read the first one and was interesting in seeing it progress. The first of this series was like show starting and then being cancelled after episode one ha.
> 
> ...


@DLC, Daniel - It's good to hear that I'm not alone on the wood/stain forward thinking. Thank you for sharing that the gel stain worked out well in your case. I may have to definitely look into more now and maybe switch my attack plan.

@SPHinTampa, Shawn - Thank you sir. I've realized I have a tendency to sometimes be too detailed and drawn out in my explanations of things so I was hoping this wouldn't bore people to tears.


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## JLadd (Feb 8, 2011)

Woodchuck4 said:


> *Almost done (Bad first time blogging)*
> 
> So, I feel like my first blog attempt was a failure to anyone that read the first one and was interesting in seeing it progress. The first of this series was like show starting and then being cancelled after episode one ha.
> 
> ...


Nice work, Nate! I feel your pain on the rookie wood selection issue. I chose poplar for the side table I posted on here. I didn't know about its tendency stain really blotchy. I used a gel stain which turned out ok and has held up well over the past few years. My suggestion is sand down several test pieces to the same finish as the project and play with those to see if you can get one wife certified ;-)


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## HerbC (Jul 28, 2010)

Woodchuck4 said:


> *Almost done (Bad first time blogging)*
> 
> So, I feel like my first blog attempt was a failure to anyone that read the first one and was interesting in seeing it progress. The first of this series was like show starting and then being cancelled after episode one ha.
> 
> ...


get some blotch control I think Charles Neil sells some that most people say works well…

Nice project.

Herb


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## Woodchuck4 (Jun 27, 2012)

*My third child is stained and ready for protection*

I call this my third child because as I'm nearing the finish line with this we have had two children, my wife quit her job to stay home with the kids, and I've gone through a job change (with promotion). With all that has gone on this poor project has had more off time than on, but now I am so close to the finish line I can taste it.



















Since the last post I got all of the final little cuts and finishes buttoned up. I was still struggling with the stain but finally found a combination that worked the best. That however required me to re-sand the entire piece to 320 (I did it all by hand). Due to limited lighting in my garage it was really hard to get some good shots of what the stain really looks like, but I gave it my best shot. i'm trying not to open the door to minimize the dust, etc. kick up.

I used stain from Sherwin Williams Sher-Wood BAC wiping stain. The color we choose was chestnut. I have had almost no experience in staining before. There were only one or two other projects I've stained and I used Min-Wax on them. It went much better than I feared. I still regret building with the maple when I knew it would be going medium dark, but that was my inexperience that lead me down this path. I had help applying the stain. My friend would brush on the stain and then I went behind him and rub in the stain with a scotch Brite pad. He said this would help the stain take more evenly along with lifting/removing any little fibers in the wood. I think it worked well becau see the wood feels as smooth as it did before it was stained and usually my projects feel a little rough and require a little sanding before continuing after staining. There are still some areas where the stain is darker than the rest and i'm working on fixing that. I welcome any suggestions and tips on how I can accomplish this better.





































Now, I know i'm at the critical and final stage…the clear topcoat. This is also where I have the most struggle. It seems like the more I read and the more people I talk to the more I'm not sure which type to use. Since so much of my surface is vertical I'm fairly certain that I want to try and spray it, but if there are better suggestions i'm always open to learn new tricks.

One of my good friends that's been doing this type of work for a long time suggested using a solvent base poly. I told him I didn't know if i'd like how it'd amber the color but he says that the stain is dark enough that you wouldn't even notice. Now, another guy that I work with, who is also a very wise man, suggested that I go with lacquer. He says that it sprays nicely and doesn't have that kind of "rubberyish" feel that some polys can give. Then I thought waterbased poly would be good because it goes on so clear.

Here is the funny part, the one that suggested oil-based poly said it's stronger than lacquer, but the friend that suggested the lacquer said it's stronger than the poly; however I'm too inexperienced to know which is correct. I've been reading and reading, but I know this is a crucial finish to this WAY too long project and I'd be so angry if I tripped and fell and ruined it with a bad finish. I've seen so many amazing creations on this site that I couldn't resist seeking the wisdom of the collective people on here.

Due to its size I didn't want to do a semi-gloss or gloss. I was planning on doing satin, knowing that I'd have to put on more coats to get the protection. I've seen a flat, but most of what i've read it didn't look like a good idea for this bench that will be going in our breakfast kitchen area and will have an 18 month and 3-1/2 year old eating at it everyday. I know it will get some wear and tear so I want to give it the best fighting chance that I can.

I thank you all for taking some of your valuable time to read this and I hope that you've enjoyed it. I continue to work to be able to create the great works of art that I've seen on here.

Thanks,
Nathan


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