# Substitude for Bloxygen



## PaBull (May 13, 2008)

I ordered Bloxygen from WoodCraft. I was going to use this to preserve my Tung Oil. I use it to fill the can of Tung Oil and let the air out, otherwise it will turn into jell.

Where can I get this stuff? Or is there a substitude?


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## teenagewoodworker (Jan 31, 2008)

rockler has it


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## gwurst (Nov 28, 2007)

Just use an air duster can and it will do the same thing.


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## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

Here is a site that lists several vendors:

http://www.bloxygen.com/purch.html

Lew


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## croessler (Jun 22, 2007)

Greg,

Have you actually used the air duster trick???


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## gwurst (Nov 28, 2007)

Yes, and it seems to work pretty-well. Here's some instructions:

Varnish Storage hint: Each time you use the can of finish, before capping, be sure to flush out the airspace in the can with Kensington Duster II, Dust-Off, or some similar product. Just make sure that the product contains no air (actually oxygen is the culprit). Most computer, office supply, and home supply stores carry aerosol cans of several different brands of compressed air duster. Make sure your can has the 5" tube for directing the gas into your can or bottle. To use, insert the tube in the valve, then insert the other end of the tube into the can (but not below the surface of the liquid), lean the lid on top and release a gentle stream of gas into the can to displace all of the air (a couple seconds generally does the trick). Slide the tube out of the can and immediately tighten the cap.
By the way, don't be surprised if the can tends to collapse on storage. The duster gas slowly dissolves in the varnish, creating a vacuum. But if no oxygen is present, the varnish will stay fluid for literally years. You might want to transfer the varnish to a glass bottle with a tightly fitting lid and flush well with duster for long term storage (glass obviously won't collapse under the vacuum).
When I open a new, large can of finish, I routinely pour most of it immediately into a glass bottle, flush, cap, and put away for storage. The rest of the can, just the amount I expect to use within a week or two, goes into a smaller glass bottle, which I flush and cap after each use.


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## PaBull (May 13, 2008)

Thanks teenagewoodworker, Greg Wurst and Lew. I am going to try the air duster. I still have some laying around in my office.

I am going on vacation for two weeks and I need to be sure I have Tung Oil when I come back.

We need to be sure to put the airduster away from kids, the stuff is deadly.


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## Radish (Apr 11, 2007)

You can also add clean glass marbles (Hobby Lobby, Micheal's etc.) to the reduce the headspace in the can. You can reuse them in the next can you open. Might have to try the air duster trick too though.


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

What is the composition of air duster?


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## PaBull (May 13, 2008)

I googled it, and this is what I came up with:

Only $2.99 a can - Any quantity









Item # 94203 
Mfg # 94203 
Price $4.99 
Sale Price $2.99 
You Save 40% 
Qty

Order Information

Product Description
GUST Easy Duster, quickly blows dust, dirt, lint, hair, sand, sawdust, moisture and microscopic debris from hard-to-reach areas or delicate surfaces. GUST is like a portable air compressor you can hold in your hand.

When you Dust with GUST, you get a blast of extremely clean, filtered, moisture-free, high pressure gas that will not scratch or harm glass, optics, metals, plastics, rubber, or hardware when used as directed.

GUST is a time saving cleaning tool with a unique variable pressure trigger that lets you control the dusting pressure. Dust with GUST to clean keyboards, printers, computers, cameras, audio gear, miniblinds, plants, lamps, appliances, power tools, or anywhere dust collects in your home, garage, office, or business.

GUST contains 100% pure difluoroethane, a colorless, odorless, moisture-free, ozone-safe propellant that can produce pressure in excess of 70 psi.

BENEFITS:

ï¿½ Contains 12 oz. of 100% pure difluoroethane.

ï¿½ Blasting power exceeds 70 psi.

ï¿½ Non-flammable, non-ozone depleting, and filtered to 0.2 microns.

http://www.southernhillscomputer.com/gueadu12.html


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## hObOmOnk (Feb 6, 2007)

I'm frugal as well as rustic.

It seems silly to me buy gases to save finishing products.

I buy Tung Oil in volume, five gallons at a time.
I redistribute the TO in to more convenient sized containers.
Some are one gallon in size and some are about a single job or two in volume.
I use recycled containers that I get for free.

I also have some accordion pleated plastic containers that can be collapsed down to the size of the remaining contents.


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## PaBull (May 13, 2008)

The air duster seem to work for me.

Thanks you guys. And I am not nuts on nuts in my cans, stuff gets too heavy and awkward…


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## jcash3 (Dec 15, 2007)

unless your climate is different, 100% pure tung oil won't solidify. That's one of the problems of using tung oil as a finish is that it takes days or weeks to dry and usually needs help from some type of drier. 
The guy i buy my tung oil from buys it by the 55 gallon barrell and then sells it by the gallon to other people.


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## Zipsss (Feb 20, 2007)

Any good wine store will have that gas. It is used to take the oxigen out from an open bottle to avoid oxidation and ruining the wine.


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## SST (Nov 30, 2006)

Whenever I finish using varnish, paint or shellac, I press a piece of saran wrap down to the surface of remaining material. It keeps the air from contacting the stuff…less creative, but it works for me. -SST


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## hObOmOnk (Feb 6, 2007)

Hi PaBull:

Are you talking about real tung oil or "tung oil finish"?

So called "tung oil finish" is usually diluted varnish and most often does not contain tung oil.
Tung oil finish will jell when exposed to air it is exposed to air because of the varnish.


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## PaBull (May 13, 2008)

I am using the tung oil from Waterlox…


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## hObOmOnk (Feb 6, 2007)

Waterlox makes a variety of finishing products that *contain* tung oil.


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## PaBull (May 13, 2008)

You are saying this just "contains" some tung oil. ok, but all I was after is to keep it from jelling up. I like the product.

Sorry to mislead you here, DrGoodharp.


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## hObOmOnk (Feb 6, 2007)

Waterlox makes great products.

The one you illustrated is about 3/4 solvent and the remaining 1/4 is a made up of tung oil and phenolic resins.
Its an oil and varnish mixture that is thinned with solvents.

This products is a great thin wiping oil-varnish mixture, much like so-called "Danish Oils", which don't contain Danes, pastries, or usually aren't even made in Denmark. 

Here's a direct quote from Waterlox on how they recommend preventing jelling:

"Transfer unused Waterlox Original Sealer/Finish to smaller tightly
sealed jars or raise the level in the original container by adding clean
marbles or stones. This is to prevent the potential jelling of contents due
to air exposure within the can."


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## PaBull (May 13, 2008)

Thanks Dr. I read that. I was trying to get around having to transfer or adding marbles or stones. Somewhere I read the recommendation of using bloxygon.


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## BloxygenBoy (Oct 9, 2008)

Folks, I'm the Bloxygen guy. In 10+ years of sellling this product, I can only offer that the air duster option is NOT 100% as some have already found out and posted here. Difluoroethane (CAS #75-37-6) is NOT inert and does react with some finishes. Bloxygen uses pure Argon which is totally inert, heavy, and natural. If you have questions, see our website or contact me. I'm here to help. Nearly all vendors were out of Bloxygen this summer, but the product is now (and forever?) shipping on time. Stores should have it by the end of the week.

Steve


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## PaBull (May 13, 2008)

Wow, so here we go, who would have thought we would get THE bloxygen guy show up here…..

Thanks, BloxygenBoy, this sure gets rid of the marbles and stones!


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## jlsmitty (Jul 7, 2008)

Years ago I read somewhere that using the gas from a propane torch to replace the air in the can works, I have done this for a long time and it works well for me.
Smitty


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## BloxygenBoy (Oct 9, 2008)

In ten years of selling Bloxygen, I've heard it all. Propane (just like the air duster) is a reactive chemical. That's why it burns. The pure Argon we use is completely inert. That means it will not react with ANY finish. We are selling this stuff for $9.95 a can which should last for about 50 to 75 uses in quarts. It should pay for itself by saving just 1/2 of one quart. It's a good deal from a woodworker to woodworkers. Relative to marbles, stones, large bolts, etc…it really just makes a mess and tends to contaminate your finish. Give us a try, we guarantee you'll be satisfied. Take care everyone!


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## BloxygenBoy (Oct 9, 2008)

Oh, by the way, we had one guy that preserved his dead pet possums. Really. No, I mean REALLY.


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## horsch (Feb 7, 2011)

This guy has a low tech, low cost solution he has been using for twenty-odd years that seems to work. Check out his video around the 7 minute mark on how he preserves his Waterlox.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Possums? Down here we just put 'em in the freezer 'till we're ready to cook 'em.
BLEAHHHHH!! SPIT, SPIT, PATOOEY!!

Bill


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## Fuzzy (Jun 25, 2007)

Blow a little Propane from a torch into the container … works just as good as the commercial stuff.

That "professional" guy in the video demonstrates exactly what NOT TO DO with leftover finish … NEVER return unused finish to the original container … it is a SURE way to ruin what's left … this, I learned from experience.


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## BloxygenBoy (Oct 9, 2008)

Folks, just another update. We've completely updated our website and commented on some of these alternate methods. We also included a link to http://everything2.com/title/Difluoroethane which explains how reactive that chemical is. We cannot recommend Difluoroethane, Propane, CO2, or other gases. Nitrogen and Argon are both good and Argon is 25% heavier than air. Thanks and be careful.

www.bloxygen.com


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## bobasaurus (Sep 6, 2009)

I've used air duster cans without issue on lots of oil-based finishes, including Waterlox. It contains Tetrafluoroethane, a gas much heavier than even argon, and does an excellent job of displacing air. It doesn't seem to react with or otherwise alter my finishes at all. See my post about it here:

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/53570


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## GarageWoodworks (Jun 30, 2012)

Under the normal conditions of being used to replace the headspace in a can of finish I certainty would NOT consider Dustt-Off (1,1-difluoroethane) or propane "reactive" as stated by the Bloxygen guy.

Air has a density of 1.2 g/L at 20 oC 
1,1-difluoroethane density is 2.7 g/L at 25 C * 125% denser than air*
Argon density 1.7 g/L *41% denser than air*

The advantage to using 1,1-difluroethane is that it is more dense than Argon and will stay toward the bottom of the can near the liquid surface much better than Argon. Remember, the goal of these gases is to remove the headspace gas present over your solvent in the can. The gases that are present are a mixture of solvent vapor and air. It is the oxygen in the air that is the culprit.

The only advantage to using Argon that I can think of is that it is truly inert (and non flammable). Under a laboratory setting working under an inert atmosphere is essential. For the purposes of being used as a finish preservative it is over kill. I can't think of any reactions that will occur between commonly used finishes (or their solvents) with 1,1-difluoroethane.

Because Argon is nonflammable this can be seen as a big advantage, but the solvents used in most finishes are flammable anyway. So I'm not sure that the nonflammable nature of Argon can be seen as a huge advantage in most cases.


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## NateLFO (Dec 15, 2013)

I can confirm that air duster cans work great. I use them in my darkroom for developer chemical storage which is highly susceptable to oxidation and it can greatly increase shelf life on items prone to oxidation.


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

> Any good wine store will have that gas. It is used to take the oxygen out from an open bottle to avoid oxidation and ruining the wine.[quote/]
> Just invite friends over and drink it all at one time.


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## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

I personally never had good results with air dusters. I had free cases of Air Dusters on hand, CRC and Miller-Stephenson branded, so I really wanted it to work out. The Bloxygen just seemed to work a lot better with expensive varnishes.

Based on the comments above, the only reason I could think why Bloxygen worked better for me is that the canned argon appears to come out a much lower pressure. Could the canned air be bouncing out of the varnish container and pulling air in behind it? Maybe technique has a lot to do with it, and I never got it right. Who knows…

If you're using enough Bloxygen (or Wine Saver) that the cost is a burden, most local welding gas suppliers can sell or rent you a small tank of argon and a regulator.


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## BloxygenBoy (Oct 9, 2008)

Folks, at the risk of starting a debate, I'd like to offer another perspective. Bloxygen was created by a woodworker for woodworkers. We use only USA made components and we assemble and fill our cans in the USA as well. We support (through regular advertisements) Sail, Popular Woodworking, Woodworker West, Woodshop News, Good Old Boat, Wooden Boat, Google, Facebook, Trade Shows, and Soundings Magazine. We support schools and woodworking clubs with huge discounts and free product for fund raisers. We support the Cal Poly Center for Innovation & Entrepreneurship. We do all we can to be a responsible company and are extremely proud of the fact that we are actually creating jobs in America. I encourage you all to consider where you spend your money and why; Bloxygen is only 15 cents per use and supports the hobby we all love.

If you do use a large quantity of Bloxygen, we sell cases at a 15% discount and ship them for free. If you need more than that, then the welding supply house is a good idea, but a tank and regulator will be about $150 or more.

At the trade shows, we have seen things that have changed our perspective. Beautiful products are designed and built and then squished by cheap imitations or foreign competition. In the end, this does bring us inexpensive products, but, as you know, it has hurt our country. It's not just that jobs are going over seas, it that the next generation of inventors and entrepreneurs are facing headwinds that prevent them from getting the backing and financing and coming to market. This prevents us from benefiting from some of these new products and it challenges America's future.

Thanks for considering this perspective.


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## GarageWoodworks (Jun 30, 2012)

*I'm still waiting for you to explain to me how 1,1-difluoroethane (common dusting gas) is reactive when used to displace air from a can of finish under normal conditions (as you claimed).*


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## NateLFO (Dec 15, 2013)

I would imagine straight nitrogen might work, plus it's fairly inexpensive in large quantities


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## mattjrogers (Jan 2, 2013)

Many of us must have welders and a common mig welding gas is Argon/CO2 mix. I have an 80 cubic foot gas bottle that costs me about $40 to fill up with 75% argon/ 25% CO2. I would think that the CO2 is pretty much inert as a gas in this case as the oxygen is already fully reacted with carbon, but I may be proven wrong. The mig welding torch dispenses gas in a slow stream controllable from a regulator and is easy to use to fill a can. With that said, it would be a piece of cake to take a dedicated bottle and regulator and attach an air blower attachment with a tube or filling finish cans. One welding gas bottle of argon filled to 2000 PSI would last about the rest of your life and only cost about $100 or less if you pick up a used bottle on Craigslist.

Pure argon is available from the welding gas supply store as well in the same welding gas bottles and is almost certainly coming from the same chemical supply companies that make Bloxygen pure argon.

So yes, Bloxygen is certainly an easy to use product and is convenient in that it is a small can, but if you have welding gear, just use your welding gas or get a small bottle filled with argon and you have the same product for the rest of your life.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

Does anyone else remember seeing this? I read an article in a wood working magazine that was one of the pay me for my idea column. Perhaps Wood magazine. This was about 20 years ago or so. The man that sent the idea in was a chemist I believe. He said to mix vinegar and soda I believe. He put it in a pitcher and mixed it then he used the pitcher to pour the gas it produced into the paint or varnish can. Be careful to not pour the liquid into the can. This mix was supposed to give off a gas that was heavier than air so it would pour out of the pitcher and stay in the paint can. This seems to be an answer that is relatively cheap and inexpensive. Does anyone else remember seeing this?


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## bobasaurus (Sep 6, 2009)

Still using air dusters here successfully. For about half a year I've used them on waterlox, wipe-on poly, danish oil, spar urethane, and shellac with perfect results. No crusting or negative reactions, and the dusters seem to last forever (still on my first can, and I use it to dust off every project before finishing).


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## crampon (Apr 4, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the informative conversation. I was looking to buy some Bloxygen locally and couldn't find it in stock, so I'm going with wine preserver, which is a mix of carbon dioxide, nitrogen and argon. Based on the conversation here, it seems that's likely to work, but I'll let folks know if that's not the case.


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## Kazooman (Jan 20, 2013)

Chemist here. The wine preserver might work, but carbon dioxide is FAR from inert. It reacts with all manner of things. Without knowing the exact chemical composition of the product you are hoping to preserve it is hard to predict the result.

Argon is a great solution. I agree with others that the difluoroethane products should also work fine. Nitrogen would also work, but the issue of density mentioned several times comes to bear. You would need to be certain to flush with enough nitrogen to completely sweep any oxygen out outfit the can.


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## bilyo (May 20, 2015)

The easiest and most cost effective method I've found is to put the remainder of your finish into a doubled ziploc bag, squeeze the excess air out and zip it up. Put the bag into another container for protection until needed.
You can also purchase urethane bags that work the same way that might be a bit more convenient


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## Rayne (Mar 9, 2014)

You can buy bloxygen with Prime shipping from amazon if you can't find it locally. Just another outlet if you need it really fast.


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## GarageWoodworks (Jun 30, 2012)

FYI - Bloxygen is a mixture of nitrogen, *carbon dioxide*, and argon per the MSDS.

CO2 is likely fine under normal use conditions. Completely inert isn't necessary as we only need the gas to be nonreactive to the conditions being used.

The cheapest solution that I've come across is the Duster gas (1,1-difluoroethane) which you can get at any office supply store if you need it really fast.


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## BloxygenBoy (Oct 9, 2008)

Hi folks, thanks for the inquiry. As noted above, Bloxygen is now sold on Amazon.com as a Prime item. It's available next day for some parts of the country and second day for most of the rest. Even with that convenience, it's still just 16 CENTS per use and it has been tested by all the major manufacturers, NASA, and the US military.

We've completely updated our website and commented on some of these alternate methods. We also included a link to http://everything2.com/title/Difluoroethane which explains how reactive that chemical is. We cannot recommend Difluoroethane, Propane, CO2, or other gases. The compressed gas dusters contain difluoroethane CAS #75-37-6 which is flammable when concentrated in a fuel/air concentration of 5.1-17.1% by volume. Inert gases do not burn. Given that this is NOT an inert gas, no sound prediction can be made about the effect it will have on the millions of different finishes out there.

Nitrogen and Argon are both good and Argon is 25% heavier than air. That extra weight helps when not all oxygen has been purged from the storage container. Our SDS sheet correctly states that Bloxygen in ARGON. As ultra pure as we can bottle it. See our SDS here: http://www.bloxygen.com/msds-sheet.html

Amazon Store:
https://www.amazon.com/bloxygen


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## GarageWoodworks (Jun 30, 2012)

Air has a density of 1.2 g/L at 20 oC
1,1-difluoroethane density is 2.7 g/L at 25 C 
Argon has a density of 1.7 g/L 
Nitrogen has a density of 1.3 g/L

If you want to market Bloxygen based on properties that are superior to 1,1-difluoroethane, density shouldn't be one of them, as difluoroethane is the most dense of the gases listed above.

With regard to flammability, what is the flammability of most solvents that are used for finishes? If most of the solvents are flammable, what difference does it make if difluroethane is flammable at a fuel/air concentration of 5.1-17.1% by volume? And Is this concentration even achieved when used to displace the headspace of a can of solvent?

Is Bloxygen 100% argon per your SDS?


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## GarageWoodworks (Jun 30, 2012)

https://go.rockler.com/tech/RTD20000082AA.pdf


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## OnhillWW (Jan 10, 2015)

I use a number of true tung oil products, Waterlox foremost among them and this is the way I go, a simple and elegant solution. My projects are small so I only purchase quarts, these have saved me a lot o money. 
https://www.stoplossbags.com/

Buy direct from the mfg or Lee Valley and others as well.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

geez for gods sake ive used bloxygen,it works,im not a scientist and dont care about your stats,try it if you dont think it works dont buy anymore,whats your beef GW?


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## GarageWoodworks (Jun 30, 2012)

While it was not my intention, I guess it was inevitable that I'd insult someone that was a user of Bloxygen? Mea culpa.

My intention was to counter bogus claims that were made that difluoroethane was not a good gas to be used to displace air from cans of finish (headspace) through the use of data ("stats").

I don't have any doubt that Bloxygen works as intended (I've never used it) based on the science, but when there are cheaper alternatives that work better or just as good, and are readily available, I'll always go that route.


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## BloxygenBoy (Oct 9, 2008)

GarageWoodworks, that Rockler website SDS that you provided a link to is VERY old, from an old formula. I'll contact them tomorrow to update it. See our SDS here: http://www.bloxygen.com/msds-sheet.html

Thank you


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

If you want to spend money the duster option will cost less, but always keep in mind you EXHALE CO2, so just blowing out a big breath as you close the lid will displace the O2 there.

Now for those really high dollar finishing supplies I have taken to using StopLossBags

Using the marbles also works pretty well.


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## Kazooman (Jan 20, 2013)

> If you want to spend money the duster option will cost less, but always keep in mind you EXHALE CO2, so just blowing out a big breath as you close the lid will displace the O2 there.
> 
> - therealSteveN


Also keep in mind that CPR works well. There is still plenty of oxygen in the breath you exhale.

https://sciencing.com/chemical-composition-exhaled-air-human-lungs-11795.html


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> If you want to spend money the duster option will cost less, but always keep in mind you EXHALE CO2, so just blowing out a big breath as you close the lid will displace the O2 there.
> 
> Now for those really high dollar finishing supplies I have taken to using StopLossBags
> 
> ...


ive looked at those stop loss bags,i may go that route.


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