# New small workshop questions, benches, placement.



## OldBull (Apr 30, 2020)

Good morning everyone,

I have a small space to set up a woodworking hobby space. I am having trouble conceiving what benches to have and where to place them. I also would like to know if workbenchs on wheels are stable. I have an area to use that is 8-1/2×14, not much I know. I have one corner taken up by a water heater and the other corner I don't know what to do with, my butt was built close the ground so everything should be accessible up close for short arms. That one corner not being dead space is important. I have a table saw that will span appx 27×68 inches with the rail extensions and it is on wheels and can easily be moved. I would like to keep it against the wall then pivot it out into a position so it can back up to a feed table. I have a vice, small mitre, 1hp wall mount grizzly vac and a small drill press to mount. The router is another question, in the saw table or seperate ?

I am thinking my tables should be shallow except maybe the feed table. This is where help is needed, the tables, where they go and the power tools mounted on the tables. I have seen a lot of the joinery examples and my guess is I will use pocket joints sometimes and dowels somtimes. Wood storage is not a problem as I have a larger basement 15 feet from the woodshop. I don't think the basement is a good choice for the shop as the dust in the garage presents less of a problem than in the basement which is actually my man cave. The garage has doors for airing it out, glue, stains, varnish fumes etc etc. I actually use a leaf blower when it is time to clean the place. The basement is not good for storing benches or tables as the door is narrow (27") and down one step. Do you prefer a lip on your benchtop or flush? I have seen several bench plans but before I select one I would like to see if anyone can offer some advice. I know this is a lot of info so thanks for any help.

P.S. Shelves are going to go away.

Thanks for any help.


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## davekennedy (Jan 15, 2012)

Utilize a long wall for a bench with built in tools. 
https://www.lumberjocks.com/davekennedy/workshop#


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

My shop is 8×16 (1/2 garage) and crammed to the gills. Most tools are on shop built 2×2 bases, only some with wheels.

Don't make a long bench with several tools bolted to it. It's not a flexible solution. By making each stand a different height you can aligh all the tool tops.

If you're concerned about tool stability on wheels you can use locking casters or use a wheelbarrow base with only two wheels and a set of handles.

I'm disabled so I can reach most stuff without moving.

I don't do hand carving or hand planing so a Rubio type bench isn't much use and burns a ton of space. Rather that, my saw is my workbench. The locked fence makes a great clamping rail and the flat top is big enough to assemble a cabinet carcass.


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## BlueRidgeDog (Jan 2, 2019)

The 14 wall would be a place for a saw station (sliding miter), with the saw being 25% in from one end, letting you work on longer boards. The space could be used for a drill press and other bench top tools as needed (mine are not mounted, so I can slide them out of the way when I want to use the space for long boards) I would have the core tools on mobile bases against the wall with the heater and a smaller core bench in the center space along with a table saw. My main bench has access on all four sides and I find that essential.

A planner joiner combo on the heater wall would work.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

> Rather that, my saw is my workbench. The locked fence makes a great clamping rail and the flat top is big enough to assemble a cabinet carcass.
> 
> - Madmark2


I have looked at some of your pictures and thought "How does he cut on that saw" that is followed by "how does he rip a long board in there". Sometimes I think may table saw top has the ability to randomly suck objects around the room to rest there.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

@Oldbull, I think you are going to need to be creative with wall storage, flip carts and making use of an open door for more room. My bench is on locking castors and is okay but I think there is a Moravian workbench in my future I hope.


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

Yeah using to saw as a bench keeps you from starting but not finishing a project since you have to clear the saw before starting something new.

The dead space to the right of the fence holds push blocks and rules. The space to the right of the saw holds the DC. The corners are stock storage.

Don't tie up 14' of bench for a chop saw. Buy a circular saw and use that to rough crosscut. Then finish on the TS.

Putting tools on a long bench and leaving them unbolted down "to be able to move them" is *dumb*. I found that out the hard way when I stumbled, grabbed the drill press and pulled it over as I fell. Not good.

Make individual tool stands, sized to fit the tool and with a height to bring the tool surface to the same height as the TS top. This will minimize lifting when moving from station to station, minimize the footprint of each tool and allow rearranging the shop without unbolting or risking unexpected machine movement.


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## BuffaloBrewer (Feb 28, 2016)

Many places sell "workbench casters" that raise the workbench to move and lower onto the legs for stable working. New yankee workshop also had a dyi method.


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## OldBull (Apr 30, 2020)

Thanks all
Awesome keep'm coming.

Where's the router go, in the saw or seperate table ?

How deep do you think a feed table needs to be?

What should go in the corner so as not to kill the space?


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

For space the router in the saw is a saver. If you have a digital fence like the Incra you can also share the cost between the saw & router.









Both the saw and router share the Incra fence.

Yes the Incra is wide, but it doesn't have to stay there. If it blocks the aisle, say, it can be slid out of the way when not in use.

My outfeed is 4' but collects lots of junk.









The air compressor lives in the gap by the water heater with a remote switch.

I don't inventory a huge amount of wood so I use the corners for that.









Vertical stacking allows air flow, preventing cupping.

The left side of the chop saw is open to the outside so no infeed space is needed. Not really an option in a basement shop.

I have a wheeled crap stack that holds a ton of stuff. Hand power tools on the bottom with a switched outlet, drawer and bin storage, bit and screwdriver storage, router bit storage, plier storage, etc., etc., etc., all in one.

Tool walls are space inefficient and you'll be up and down, up and down all day long. Not to mention that they limit your shop layout and are a chore to build if you have block walls and don't want a bunch of "bullet holes" left over.

Better to have as much as possible at hand in a small space.









Tons o' crap in a small space within arms reach.

The removable bins allow you to bring the bin to the work. The bins are modular and can be combined in many ways. Some bins are subdivided. The cases can be folded shut trapping the bins and everything inside them for easy transport.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

Wheels that either lock securely, or drop the item to the ground, and pop back to rolling as quickly as possible. I have a 32×48 building, and everything rolls. Sometimes I can pull a few vehicles in, and still have a complete Kitchen worth of cabinets inside. Or not. Either way I can still access, and use all the tools. Without the cars I can also leave them where I want them to be.

And I have a tiny little wood rack. 12' wide 8' deep and over 10' tall. Not so empty right now.


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## gtrgeo (Mar 22, 2017)

As previously mentioned, make sure everything is on wheels. You will likely not have the ability to work on all of your tools in a stationary position. Bring them out as a project or task requires then place them back in their home. Being mobile is key to configuring your available space to meet the need.

I would also agree with Mark on the chop saw station. I have an 11×22 shop space and have continually shrunk my chop saw station down to a single cabinet to hold the saw and will soon be adding wheels. If it were not for the amount of framing/home improvement work I do, I might consider storing the chop saw as there are other alternatives. I also like Mark's idea of placing the chop saw next to a door to eliminate the need for infeed space. currently my infeed to the left is over the top of my table saw extension and the outfeed on the right runs under my drill press or uses the drill press table as appropriate. I use some blocks on my table saw extension to provide support of longer work pieces. I had router in the extension of my first table saw but did not find it convenient to use. With the width of my shop I find my table saw best set with the end of the extension against the wall. This allows me to run stock the length of the shop and still gives me a walkway with tools against the opposite wall.

I have built a separate Norm type router table which I enjoy using. I also started by building a separate workbench which is now morphing into a table saw outfeed. This is still a work in process as I like to have a bench I can do some hand work on but just do not have the space for a large Roubo style workbench.

My planar and Ridgid spindle sander are mounted on a flip top style cart which seems to be working well so far. This allows me to keep the sander available for work and roll the cabinet out and set up when the planar is needed. Still working on solutions for other tools in the shop.

Most importantly I would suggest removing anything extraneous from the workshop area and prepare to reconfigure several times as you find what works for you. Don't commit to shop furniture until you know it works for you. It is ok to knock something together out of 2×4s and plywood to see if something suits your workflow. It fun to see workshop tours and get ideas but realize how other's outfit their space may not work for you and the work you do. Try to focus on workshop suggestions focused on working in a small space.

I found some helpful ideas in an early FWW Tools and Shops article on bulding a one-car garage workshop. I have tried to keep the tops of my tools at the same elevation as my table saw to ensure clear infeed/outfeed space and support. Lately I have been contemplating deviating from this using the method in this article in attempt to have some stationary placement of some tools while still being flexible with others on mobile stands. Still working through the feasibility of this idea. This person on another site has a lot of good ideas on use of his small space. I recently found this and have not had an opportunity to see what I can use. In general, look for these types of posts and articles focused on small space.

Sorry for the rambling. Have been working on the same for my shop and just wanted to pass along things I have found.

George


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## OldBull (Apr 30, 2020)

A great big thanks to you folks,

BlueRidgeDog controlfreak Madmark2 David Kennedy
BuffaloBrewer therealSteveN and gtrgeo.

The layout is a lot less fuzzy and now at least has a basic shape, what do ya think?


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## OldBull (Apr 30, 2020)

Would it be sacrilege to buy this harbor freight workbench for the north wall workbench ??

harborfreight.com/60-in-4-drawer-hardwood-workbench-63395.html?brpsugg_q=workbench


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

It seems you don't (yet) have machinery.
Have you considered going hand-tool only?

Have a look at Paul Sellers blog and its sites
common woodworking; and
woodworking masterclasses
before spending a lot of money on machinery.
Of course it depends on what you are going to make.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

> Would it be sacrilege to buy this harbor freight workbench for the north wall workbench ??
> 
> harborfreight.com/60-in-4-drawer-hardwood-workbench-63395.html?brpsugg_q=workbench
> 
> - OldBull


By all means get what you want. I did Steve Ramsey's mobile workbench out of one sheet of plywood and some 2×4's and slapped some locking casters on it so the price is right. I plan on building something a bit more sexy as soon as I get my shop laid out the way I like. It will likely be a trial run with SYP before I get the fancy hardwood. At that point I will trash the Steve Ramsey one and move on. The way I look at it everything I build is a "skill builder" for me and helps me work on my new hobby. Going and buying a bench just can't do that. I must admit that when I lacked tools and confidence I looked at that same bench and almost pulled the trigger, glad I didn't now.


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## OldBull (Apr 30, 2020)

Do you like benches with or without a lip/overhang ??


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

> It seems you don t (yet) have machinery.
> Have you considered going hand-tool only?
> 
> - Sylvain


Now that I have a Table saw, planer, jointer, drill press and bandsaw in my small shop I find myself increasingly thinking about hand tool work. Bandit is my inspiration here at LJ for this. I just wish good hand tools were not so expensive. Shop would be a lot quieter too. + 1 on the Paul Sellers videos too.


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## OldBull (Apr 30, 2020)

Sylvain, I have spinal degeneration and I am also in my early 60's, I'm probably gonna need tesla's help from here on out.


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

With, makes it easy to clamp to.

I've used folding tables, doors, MDF, 2×4s, etc., to make benches out of, if you definition of "bench" is "flat work surface". Legs have been those metal 2×4 channel ones, milk crates, filing cabinets, sawhorses, folding metal ones, 2×4's etc.

No shame in any option as long as it works 4 U.

Paint walls white and place LED light between seat and wall at each work station. More light is never enough. Centered lighting with workstations around wall means you're always working in your own shadow.

I would try and layout TS as stationary against far wall. Put movable stuff near door so TS is last thing to move and not first.

Your drawing doesn't show the entry doorway so it's hard to judge layout.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

> Do you like benches with or without a lip/overhang ??
> 
> - OldBull


I built mine with overhang to receive clamps (2 3/4 sheets of plywood) however that makes it hard to mount a proper vise to the bench and takes away the bench side & leg surfaces to secure work. So if I had to do over I would make the edge of the top and legs in the same plane. That will still be in bench #2


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## OldBull (Apr 30, 2020)

Madmark2 The top of the drawing is wall, the bottom is open but will be filled with a car right up to the drawing.

Thanks controlfreak, I will take that into consideration.


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

Car enters from right? Put the saw facing so you can open the door for outfeed. Use a roller stand when you need it. This would also allow you to have 4' either side of the blade for ripping sheet goods in your 8-1/2' space.

Cram less used tools against wall with more often used tools in front. Gives twice the tool density in the same space.

I see you've already planned on keeping accessories with their associated tool. Good.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

If the car will be your wifes than cover it with dust a few time and you will double your shop space. ;-)

Backing the car out while working will provide great workspace. I have seen some very clever use of space over the car hood for storage if that can be done.


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## OldBull (Apr 30, 2020)

"Car enters from right?" No car enters straight in toward the long north wall.


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## sepeck (Jul 15, 2012)

> Would it be sacrilege to buy this harbor freight workbench for the north wall workbench ??
> 
> harborfreight.com/60-in-4-drawer-hardwood-workbench-63395.html?brpsugg_q=workbench
> 
> - OldBull


I have one of these my wife bought me mumble years ago as a present. I'd spend the money on something else but they do work. One of these days I am going to replace it so make of it what you will. I plan on getting some 4×12 headers ~6 foot long for the top of a workbench because I find the idea of glue ups appalling and they are affordable.

These are not on wheels but I found these cabinet plans to be easy to build, modular and they last. 
https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/228834
Of course, they need to be cleaned off as I've been busy and neglecting the shop but it is what it is. Also, I find since I built them I kind of agree with Steve Ramsey on this, you can paint this stuff if it's not 'pretty wood' as it adds some color to your shop and brightens things up a little.


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

Then face saw into car area for offcut.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Check out my Dungeon Shop sometime…









I could fit two of mine into the space the OP has….


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## WoodenDreams (Aug 23, 2018)

You can check out the different small shop on LJ's site for ideas. This small shop tour on youtube will give you some ideas also 




Some good ideas on this video tour


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## SeattleMatt (May 6, 2020)

My shop is similar in size. Its a shed that I am turning into my workshop, sized at 12×16. My approach is to do without the traditional workbench, and to build an outfeed table with embedded t-tracks, bench dog holes, and a vice. I bought the plans at https://kingsfinewoodworking.com/products/extreme-torsion-box-assembly-table-and-outfeed-workbench as a start

The TS will be near the doors so I can feed longer items through just by opening the doors. For my other tools, I am keeping everything mobile, and see how my layout works as I complete more builds.

I have also built a bump-out for dust collection and eventually an air compressor to maximize the shop space.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

> My shop is similar in size. Its a shed that I am turning into my workshop, sized at 12×16. My approach is to do without the traditional workbench, and to build an outfeed table with embedded t-tracks, bench dog holes, and a vice. I bought the plans at https://kingsfinewoodworking.com/products/extreme-torsion-box-assembly-table-and-outfeed-workbench as a start
> 
> The TS will be near the doors so I can feed longer items through just by opening the doors. For my other tools, I am keeping everything mobile, and see how my layout works as I complete more builds.
> 
> ...


This is very interesting. My shed is similar at 10' x 16' and after looking at this I think I can make this work. I would need to move my double doors from side to the end but it is doable. Thanks for the idea.


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## gtrgeo (Mar 22, 2017)

Depending on the type of work you do this layout may or may not work out for you. If you are working small pieces the table saw may be ok as placed. Most everything I work on goes through my table saw. For me I would want it lined up ~mid-way along a wall to provide ready access and good infeed/outfeed. You can even place work tables behind and in front of the saw leaving space to operate. This can provide support during cuts and double the use of space. With your small space you will need to have the table saw on a mobile base and adjust as the project dicatates.

Regarding the Harbor Freight workbench. I have looked at this in the local store and it would work as a work surface but would need some reinforcement to do any serious work on it. I have seen others add plywood sheeting and/or diagonal bracing to the base in effort to stiffen. As is the legs rack if any pressure is applied. It could be a starter bench but you will want something more robust if you plan to do any planing.

Make your work surfaces so they easily accommodate clamping of your work. If the under-structure requires a lip to accomplish this then plan accordingly. I have a smaller roll around cabinet that was originally planned to be an outfeed surface. I only left a small - 3/4" overhang and cuss that thing every time I try to do any work on it. Some day I will remove the top and replace leaving an overhang. Some like a skirt on the working face of a workbench for clamping boards vertically. I personally have not found this for how I currently do work.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

THIS is my main work area…









There is an aisle as I come done the steps to the shop…









I need to find a better spot for that tablesaw, but…









Shop is basically an F shape…..not counting these steps..









Watch your head! 
Bench is just over 16" wide, 5' long, 34" tall. Top is 1-1/4" thick.

I would have to leave a trail of bread crumbs, to find my way out of some of the shop spaces listed above…


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## BlueRidgeDog (Jan 2, 2019)

As to the HF bench, no. If you want to be a woodworker, then you can start by making a bench tailor made to your space and needs. You will be so happy you did and as the years roll on it will be solid, reliable and essential. My bench took just a few days to make and is a joy to use. Cheap too. You can see it in my projects I think.


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## WoodenDreams (Aug 23, 2018)

If you build a work bench out of 2×4's with MDF or butcher block top, you can size it so it double duties as a outfeed table to the table saw. Mine is 4'x4' but the size benchtop can be sized to what you plan on needing for your projects.


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## OldBull (Apr 30, 2020)

Thanks again everyone for your help and suggestions


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