# Dovetail Box



## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*The Wood*

I mentioned recently that I felt like actually making something before working on my bench. What better project for my beginner skills than a simple dovetail box? I haven't waded through the loads of plans online for boxes, so this plan of mine might not work. Let me know what you think.

First, I had an idea that maybe I could build the entire box out of a single block of 2×4 that is 5 1/2" long. Here's my block - it's _kempas_ by the way (click for big size, you wood junkies):



The dimensions of the box top (and bottom) I thought would be roughly 4" by 5 1/3" (I read somewhere that a 1:1 1/3 ratio is nice for boxes). So I thought that I would just rip the top and bottom of the box right off the top of this block of wood - I dunno, maybe 1/2" thick for each? That would leave me something like 5/8" left. Is is crazy to think of cutting that in two 1/4" (ish) pieces, that I'd then rip down the middle for the four walls? Are dovetails for 1/4" thick pieces too fine for a beginner?

I guess I'm just being lazy to cut off more wood for the walls, and also I'm trying to mimimize (maybe neurotically so) wood waste.

Another question I have is how to join the box to the bottom. I was thinking that I'd just slap some glue on the bottom of the box walls and throw it onto the bottom, but that sounds so crude to say it. The top will be hinged somehow - I'll burn that bridge when I get to it.

[This entry was taken from my personal website, Adventures in Woodworking.]


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## Tomcat1066 (Jan 3, 2008)

offseid said:


> *The Wood*
> 
> I mentioned recently that I felt like actually making something before working on my bench. What better project for my beginner skills than a simple dovetail box? I haven't waded through the loads of plans online for boxes, so this plan of mine might not work. Let me know what you think.
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First, I have to admit, I like the look of Kempas. I might have to get you to send me a hunk sometime. I guess I can send you some pine or something 

Second, and this is just the opinion of a fellow newbie, but if cutting dovetails in 1/4" thick pieces is a challenge for a newbie, then you can knock it out of the way now. However, you should also be prepared to screw up and have nothing to show for your efforts except valuable experience. Learn it now, or learn it later.

Personally, I think it would be interesting to see the box all made from the same chunk of wood, just resawn for the individual pieces.

As for joining the bottom, perhaps a groove along the bottom, then an tongue in the bottom piece that will fit in? While something like a combination plane would be useful for that, you can do it with just a chisel, so it should be doable.

Just a thought.


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## rikkor (Oct 17, 2007)

offseid said:


> *The Wood*
> 
> I mentioned recently that I felt like actually making something before working on my bench. What better project for my beginner skills than a simple dovetail box? I haven't waded through the loads of plans online for boxes, so this plan of mine might not work. Let me know what you think.
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This should be an interesting challenge for you. There are a lot of resources available here to help, too.


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## MorningWood70 (Jan 14, 2008)

offseid said:


> *The Wood*
> 
> I mentioned recently that I felt like actually making something before working on my bench. What better project for my beginner skills than a simple dovetail box? I haven't waded through the loads of plans online for boxes, so this plan of mine might not work. Let me know what you think.
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Good luck man!


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## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

offseid said:


> *The Wood*
> 
> I mentioned recently that I felt like actually making something before working on my bench. What better project for my beginner skills than a simple dovetail box? I haven't waded through the loads of plans online for boxes, so this plan of mine might not work. Let me know what you think.
> 
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Think of this as a personal challenge. Go for it. You have nothing to lose (other than a small piece of kempas) and stand to gain experience- a more than adequate tradeoff. Why not include some posts of your project as you go along. I, personally, would find it interesting to see the progress.

Good luck.


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## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

offseid said:


> *The Wood*
> 
> I mentioned recently that I felt like actually making something before working on my bench. What better project for my beginner skills than a simple dovetail box? I haven't waded through the loads of plans online for boxes, so this plan of mine might not work. Let me know what you think.
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Good challange for you. Try a rabbit for the bottom.


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*When You Don't Plan Your Cuts*



So I was thinking that I'd cut two (full-sized) 3/8" slices off of this block, and then cut those in half longways to be the walls of the box. I went with my dovetail saw to have a finer cut (and leave me with more wood left on the block for the top and bottom). Can you tell what I ran into here?

*Note to self: *Check the depth of the saw when planning your cuts!

I did try throwing my Stanley backsaw in there; I could get it in, but I couldn't get it to cut! So I did damage control and salvaged what I could.

I'm thinking I'll probably scrap the "one block of wood" challenge, and just use what I need from my board to get the box done. I'll use my Stanley to slice off the top and the bottom (from this block), so I can actually saw all the way through this time.


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## Tomcat1066 (Jan 3, 2008)

offseid said:


> *When You Don't Plan Your Cuts*
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You might want to look at getting a good frame saw. That would work well for resawing like that and should work with just about any hunk of wood you throw at it!


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## rikkor (Oct 17, 2007)

offseid said:


> *When You Don't Plan Your Cuts*
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Here's what you need:


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *When You Don't Plan Your Cuts*
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Tomcat: What's that? I need to Google it.

Rikkor, I was just thinking the same thing. Any brand recommendations?


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## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

offseid said:


> *When You Don't Plan Your Cuts*
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I agree with rikkor.


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## Dorje (Jun 17, 2007)

offseid said:


> *When You Don't Plan Your Cuts*
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Both good ideas…the ryoba pictured above and the frame saw (below) idea Tomcat gave. However, I think the ryoba would be better for softer woods, and the wood your cutting there looks to be pretty dense/hard…though can't tell for sure…










A backsaw with greater depth of cut could work for you as well.


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *When You Don't Plan Your Cuts*
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Yes, I think all the wood I'd be working with here is pretty hard tropical wood.


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*Almost Ready for the Dovetails*



So I've got the pieces for my box cut mostly to size. The walls are all currently about 5 1/2" long - I'm going to trim just a bit off of two of them (to get them to 5 1/3") and I'll trim the other two down to 4" (and they'll be about 2" tall). But first, I have a planing issue.

I suppose it's just part of my journey, but I can't seem to be able to get my pieces (any of them) really flat. First, I was dealing with tearout. Apparently, even when you're going with the grain, there is a direction the wood likes to be planed and a direction the wood doesn't like to be planed. Or is it simply time to resharpen? I think a good sharpening is in order regardless.

Having a good flat face kind of affects everything, though. If the face isn't flat, then you can't square the edges, even with a shooting board, because you're not resting the board flat against it.

When I put all four walls up against each other, they are all over the place as far as evenness. So what can I do? Do I try to clamp them all together, edge to edge, and plane them all at once? And then flip them all over and do it again?

Argh.

On a brighter note, I did feel some sense of accomplishment with my planing at certain points. It was cool to see end grain shavings - a first for me.

[This entry was taken from my personal site, Adventures in Woodworking.]


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## Tomcat1066 (Jan 3, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Almost Ready for the Dovetails*
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Where are you getting tear out?


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## naperville (Jan 28, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Almost Ready for the Dovetails*
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Eric,
Box making is addictive… and sometimes an obsession. It might be wise to give up on a piece of wood and move onto an easier piece to work with. If this is not the case and you really want to work through it, I'd first say check your plane. Is it a low angle? is it as sharp as it could be? If not, this may be the answer.
Another thing to try to get very good results that I've used is to sand them flat. (easier than it sounds) Using a few pieces of inexpensive granite tile to keep things dead flat, ($1.19 each at Lowes) spray mount full sheets of sand paper to each tile. (different grits on seperate tiles) Starting with a course 60 grit for initially flattening dense wood and working through the grits to the desired level of finish. Hope this helps…

Tom


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Almost Ready for the Dovetails*
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Thanks for the feedback Tom. I think I can find tile pretty easy here. I think I'd rather work with what I have than move on to a new piece of wood, especially because I'm pretty close to flat. I just don't know how to guarantee flatness.

Tomcat: I'm getting occasional tearout underneath the area I'm planing. I don't think it's a rarity, though, as I read a recent Christopher Schwarz article where he talks about dealing with tearout while planing.


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*Making a Dovetail Template*



Before I get to making the dovetails for my wife's dovetail box, I thought I'd make this little template. The design came from the fine folks over at Homestead Heritage, where I was privileged to receive a day of hands-on joinery instruction.

I did modify the design somewhat. The original design has a square on one side and a 1:7 dovetail angle on the other, and is identical on the flipside. Since many woodworkers advocate using a 1:6 ratio for softwoods and a 1:8 ratio for hardwoods, why not have them all represented? So I have a square and a 1:7 on one side, and on the other side I have both 1:6 and 1:8. I think I'm going to follow up with my woodburner and burn those ratios on the appropriate face, just so I don't have to guess.

I think I will get a lot of use out of this jig, and not just for dovetails. Having a tiny square can be pretty handy sometimes. I know that I have on occasion cursed my huge 12" Starrett square, nice as it may be.

[This entry was taken from my personal website, Adventures in Woodworking.]

EDIT 2/10: This thing only works if you're a "pins first" guy. If you do tails first, the template only lets you do one side of the tail, and you'd need a bevel gauge to do the other side. If you do pins first, though, the template should be long enough to use from either side of the end.

EDIT 2/13: Wrong again! No matter which side of the end you place the template, the angle is the same. So this template really is kind of useless except for the square. But it's given me good experience which will help when I build my next one!


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## Tomcat1066 (Jan 3, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Making a Dovetail Template*
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Sounds like it'll fit your needs just fine


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## rikkor (Oct 17, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Making a Dovetail Template*
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Where is the Homestead Heritage located? Looks very interesting.


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Making a Dovetail Template*
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rikkor: Homestead Heritage is not far from Waco, TX.


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## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Making a Dovetail Template*
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Thanks for the post. This looks like something I need. I could do a post on "How Not to Cut a Dovetail" but I doubt that would be very informational, but it would be comical (especially to those who have mastered the technique).


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## TrmptPlyr (Jan 31, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Making a Dovetail Template*
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I was playing around with a piece of red oak this weekend teaching myself how to hand cut a dovetail… Something like this would have made the layout 3x faster… I had to swap between the square attachment and variable miter gauge on my combo square(which is 12" long) to mark the dovetail on my 6" piece of oak… can we say, overkill?


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## naperville (Jan 28, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Making a Dovetail Template*
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I don't know if you all are familiar with this… http://www.blocklayer.com/Woodjoints/DovetailEng.aspx
Helps in the layout of dovetails.

Tom


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## Grumpy (Nov 9, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Making a Dovetail Template*
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Thanks for sharing Eric. Definitely food for thought.


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Making a Dovetail Template*
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Tom, that is very cool - thanks for the link!

I plan on posting the steps to making this in the near future, although the more experienced among you can probably figure it out.


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*Take a Deep Breath*



So I've finally gotten the walls of the box flat. Well, mostly flat. They still wobble just a bit when I put them together, but I don't want to plane these things down to wooden cards trying to get it just right. Plus, it's not like I'm face-gluing them together. When they're joined together as a box, I think the variance will be negligible. Two of the walls were 1/32" thinner (on average) than the other two, so those were the ones I cut down for the short sides. The picture above simply shows the walls propped up on the base (or maybe it will be the top, I haven't looked at them yet to decide).

So now before I cut the tails, I have two questions:

What looks better on a box - tails on the front walls or pins on the front walls? [Edit: I searched for some pics of dovetail boxes, and most seem to be tails on the front.]
Should I clamp the opposite boards together and cut the tails on both at the same time?

I'll likely begin this tomorrow. Pictures, as always, will follow!

[This entry was taken from my personal website, Adventures in Woodworking.]


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## Dorje (Jun 17, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Take a Deep Breath*
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If you think of it as a drawer (box), the tails would be on the long sides and the pins would be on the short sides. Mechanically, that makes sense. Aesthetically, you could go either way, but I'd probably go with tails on the long sides.

It's not a bad idea to cut the tails on the two pieces at the same time. Your tails will be identical that way.

It's really all up to you. Enjoy it!


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## rikkor (Oct 17, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Take a Deep Breath*
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I think I'd do tails on the long side, too.


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## Tomcat1066 (Jan 3, 2008)

offseid said:


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For what it's worth, I plan on gang cutting tails also.

As for where to put the tails, I'll side with the majority. Put 'em on the long side


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## Thuan (Dec 12, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Take a Deep Breath*
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If you gang cut the tails first, then you will have to mark the pins on end grain, which is hard to see and not accurate. I cut my pins first, individually, then use it as a template to mark the tails on the face, which is easier to see. Essentially, ripping thin wood is easier and more accurate than ganging it up and ripping a thick piece. Do this enough time, you won't even need a template.


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## alindobra (Oct 3, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Take a Deep Breath*
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Eric,

As a beginner, trust me, you do not want to cut two tails simultaneously. Cutting a thick board (or two boards) is significantly harder than a single board. The people that cut two boards at a time are experience dovetail cutters that want to cut down the time a little. If you are pretty good you might save about 30s to 1 minute per side (4-5 minutes total at best).

One of the things I make sure when I cut dovetails by hand is that they do not look like machine made dovetails at all. Placing the pins by eye and individually for each side is part of this. I strongly prefer, like Thuan, to start with the pins. If you make narrow pins (as you should since a router cannot copy that) you nave little chances to mark the pins from the tails.

Also, take a look at my blog entry on cutting dovetails ( http://lumberjocks.com/jocks/alindobra/blog/2755 ). You might get some ideas how to make you dovetailing experience easier.

Not having all the boards the same thickness wearies me a lot. You can survive that but you have to remember to reset the marking gauge for each board individually. If you don't the result will probably disastrous (large gaps around the pins).

Alin


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

offseid said:


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It's fun to follow this.


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## Dorje (Jun 17, 2007)

offseid said:


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Uh-oh - this looks like it has potential to become a tail-first, pins-first thing…I'll choose to stay out of that one!


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Take a Deep Breath*
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Alin, you bring up some good points. First off, I don't know that gang cutting the tails would be THAT dangerous, since my walls are only like 3/8" thick. But since I'm being extra super duper cautious at this point, I may follow your advice and single them out. It doesn't take THAT much more time, and in fact merely gives me a bit more experience at precision sawing, so why not?

I really appreciate the link to your videos (which I have preloaded but not yet watched). I don't know that I want my pins quite as small as yours, but I do plan on custom-sizing them a bit. I don't mind at all if they look like they are machine-produced dovetails. :^)

Worst case scenario, the dovetails will fit but look horrible, and my wife will love me to death because of the effort I expended trying to make this for her. That's not too bad, is it?


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Take a Deep Breath*
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Oh, and Thuan - on this kind of open-grained wood, the face is not really that much easier to see the lines on than the ends! I found it a bit tricky.

I did my first joint tails-first, but I think I'll do some of them pins-first just for fun. (Yee haw?)


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*Doh!vetail Template - Product Recall*

A couple weeks ago I made a dovetail template to use when making the box for my wife (I'm halfway through the joinery, by the way). I blogged about it here and even posted it as my first ever project on LumberJocks. I was pretty proud.

Maybe too proud. I thought the folks over at Homestead Heritage (where I learned the template) were a bit narrow-minded when they only offered the 1:7 ratio (in addition to the square). I figured it would be even better to offer the 1:6 and 1:8 as well; after all, the template has four working edges, right?

The first time I tried marking out my tails, I realized a major deficiency: the template will only mark one side of the tail. You have to get a bevel gauge or protractor to mark the other side. No problem, I thought - I'll just become a pins-first guy. My thinking was that I'd put the template on one edge of the end grain to mark one side of the pin, and then go to the other edge to mark the other side of the pin. Uh-uh. The angle is the same.

So this template is mostly useless (except for the square), and I need to make another one. I made updates to my blog entries and project page, for those who read it in the future. But I felt the need to make the "product recall" notice here as well, for those of you who read it and are planning to make your own. Stick to the original plan! Square on one edge, and both directions of a single ratio (I'll probably do 1:7 or 1:8 since I mostly work with hardwoods). What goes on the fourth edge? Maybe I won't even cut a fourth edge, or I'll add another square.

[This entry was taken from my personal website, Adventures in Woodworking.]


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

offseid said:


> *Doh!vetail Template - Product Recall*
> 
> A couple weeks ago I made a dovetail template to use when making the box for my wife (I'm halfway through the joinery, by the way). I blogged about it here and even posted it as my first ever project on LumberJocks. I was pretty proud.
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Did it get an official recall, or only from you.


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Doh!vetail Template - Product Recall*
> 
> A couple weeks ago I made a dovetail template to use when making the box for my wife (I'm halfway through the joinery, by the way). I blogged about it here and even posted it as my first ever project on LumberJocks. I was pretty proud.
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It only applies to my own template and any template made by someone who followed my modified design. So it's not going to cause any panic in the woodworking world. At least, let's hope not. :^)


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## Tomcat1066 (Jan 3, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Doh!vetail Template - Product Recall*
> 
> A couple weeks ago I made a dovetail template to use when making the box for my wife (I'm halfway through the joinery, by the way). I blogged about it here and even posted it as my first ever project on LumberJocks. I was pretty proud.
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Live and learn, right? I actually thought the same thing you did about the template, so don't sweat it to much. Now, you just need to make more templates. A 1:7, 1:8, and 1:6. That should solve the problems, right?


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## RobS (Aug 11, 2006)

offseid said:


> *Doh!vetail Template - Product Recall*
> 
> A couple weeks ago I made a dovetail template to use when making the box for my wife (I'm halfway through the joinery, by the way). I blogged about it here and even posted it as my first ever project on LumberJocks. I was pretty proud.
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Yes, I thought that was a little different then mine. Mine, actually made in the class, had the 1:7 on both angles and the straight 90's on the other side. I did not remember making different ratios but thought maybe you just took yous a step further until you mentioned it here..


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*The Dovetails Are Done!*



Yes! Finally. The joints have all been cut, and the box is perfectly squared up. No glue yet, and the base and top have not even been started. This was a good exercise. And while the joints are far from perfect, it should look really nice when it's all done. Interestingly, the joints didn't necessarily get better as I went along. Each one had its own complications, and I have to say, I don't really enjoy doing such small dovetails. My new Japanese pull saw arrived yesterday, so the last joint was done solely with that one. It was nice. Here are the thumbnails of the four joints, in the order I did them - click on any one to see a hugemongous version.

   

One of the biggest lessons I learned was about marking the base of the tails and pins. I had been marking them with pencil, and then following up with a knife before beginning to chisel out. But while I followed the guideline "always leave the lines" when cutting my pins and tails, I failed to follow that on the base. As a result, I cut a little too deep and there are tiny gaps in a couple joints. Here you can see what I'm talking about:

 

So now I have a few questions:

Should I try to fill those gaps? I heard something once about mixing sawdust with wood glue. I suppose I could also insert tiny wedges in there and cut/sand them down. It's not the end of the world with them like that, but just thinkin'.
What do I do next? Do I glue first, before planing or sanding it down?
Regarding the bottom, what do you suggest - do a stepped rabbet (if I'm even using the right term) so that the walls go all the way to the bottom on the outside, and are recessed into the box bottom on the inside? Having the end grain exposed really takes away from the appearance so I want to cover that up.
Same thing with the top - I can't just slice a piece of my board and hinge it on there up on top - the end grain really looks kind of vulgar. So would you do mitered edges glued to an interior panel? I'm really a newb at box building so maybe this is a fundamental thing here - I just don't know.

I'll close with a shot of the back, since I've already shown every other angle…


[This entry was originally posted on my personal website, Adventures in Woodworking.]


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## Tomcat1066 (Jan 3, 2008)

offseid said:


> *The Dovetails Are Done!*
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Personally, I think they look darn good. Especially since they're first dovetails. As for tightening them up, I suppose that you've already gotten them as tight as you can? The gaps looked pretty uniform, so I wondered if you could just squeeze it tighter to close the gaps (which are tiny) and then just plane off the rest.

Also, how are you planning on attaching the bottom?


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *The Dovetails Are Done!*
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I tried squeezing them a bit tighter, but they didn't really budge. I'm actually fine with that because it IS squared up and I'm afraid I'd throw it out of square if I tinker too much.

As for the bottom, I'm thinking of a rabbit on the inside bottom of the wall that would fit into the uncut bottom piece. With a nice application of glue all around, that should be strong enough for this tiny box. But I'm curious what others have to say.


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## Thuan (Dec 12, 2007)

offseid said:


> *The Dovetails Are Done!*
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I can say that's 100 x's better than my first set. This is what I would do next, glue and clamp them together and then plane the pins flush. Then mix saw dust with the same finish you plan to use to fill in the gaps, sand and repeat unitl the gaps are gone, then finish the box as normal.

You can use the clamp to squeeze the tails closer by making pieces of wood with notches in them to exert pressure on the pins only when you tighten the clamp.

In any case, you should be proud of that box.


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## ChicoWoodnut (Dec 15, 2007)

offseid said:


> *The Dovetails Are Done!*
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Nice Blog Eric, I really enjoyed reading it. If it were me I would just keep it like it is. I admire your perseverance and ability to produce something without a shop full of screaming machines.

My mother in law told my wife to find a man with a hobby. Boy did she ever! It looks like yours did too.


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## Blake (Oct 17, 2007)

offseid said:


> *The Dovetails Are Done!*
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I should post a photo of my first dovetails. They were so bad, I still haven't worked up the courage to give it a second attempt. If they were this good, I'd probably be a dovetail master by now. Nice job. Keep practicing. You've got the patience and the knack that few posses.


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## Dorje (Jun 17, 2007)

offseid said:


> *The Dovetails Are Done!*
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That's a lot of tails and pins you have there! You'll never be able to say that you haven't cut dovetails before! Nice work.


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


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Thanks, guys! I'm greatly encouraged. I think I'm going to leave them as is and not try to fill them. I'll save the filling experiment for something I actually want to sell, if I get to that point.


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## tpalm (May 26, 2011)

offseid said:


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Those are good dove tails for your first. Next time if you want them as tight as possible, you need to cut on the waste side of the line so the line still shows on the piece your keeping.


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*Be Vewy Vewy Quiet - I'm Hunting Wabbets*

Okay, so you'd think that doing the dovetail joints would have been the hardest part of this box, right? Me too. I figured on this nice leisurely Sunday afternoon, I'd do the simple task of cutting the rabbets into which the box bottom would fit. Then I'd glue the dovetails and heck, maybe even glue the bottom on. But it turned out to be not so simple, and after much groaning (and nearly cursing), I'm left with two busted pins and only one rabbet done.

See, I realized that on the walls the rabbets have to be stopped, because otherwise I'd cut off the bottom pins and part of the bottom tails. I really wasn't sure how I was going to do this, since I don't have a tiny little saw or anything. So I started with a nice deep knife line - as deep as I could manage. Then I started carefully chiseling away toward the knife wall. But on nearly my first pass chiseling near the pin, I broke off part of the pin. Long story short, I had two breaks on each pin (see pic below). Fortunately, I have all the pieces so I will be able to glue them back together. I figured I'd might as well carry on chiseling since the pins were already shot. So in the end, I got an acceptable rabbet for one wall.

I'm kind of hesitant to begin the other walls. Part of me thinks I might be better off to just go ahead and chisel off each pin at the rabbet line, just get it out of the way, and then do the rabbet as normal and glue the pins back on. With such tiny pins and tails, it might actually be the easiest way.



EDIT: I just had an idea. Maybe I could just define the lines with the knife, then run the chisel along the rabbet (bevel down) like a plane, and then repeat: knife line, chisel plane, etc. Maybe that would work.

[This entry was originally posted on my personal website, Adventures in Woodworking.]


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## Tomcat1066 (Jan 3, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Be Vewy Vewy Quiet - I'm Hunting Wabbets*
> 
> Okay, so you'd think that doing the dovetail joints would have been the hardest part of this box, right? Me too. I figured on this nice leisurely Sunday afternoon, I'd do the simple task of cutting the rabbets into which the box bottom would fit. Then I'd glue the dovetails and heck, maybe even glue the bottom on. But it turned out to be not so simple, and after much groaning (and nearly cursing), I'm left with two busted pins and only one rabbet done.
> 
> ...


For what it's worth, my plan for rabbets is to try the bevel down plan, but also to go away from the knife lines to minimize tear out. Basically, put in the deep knife line, run the chisel bevel down like a plane, but toward the center, then do the other side the same way.

I remember hearing something like this in regard to dados, but it sounded like a good idea for rabbets too.


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## tpastore (Dec 14, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Be Vewy Vewy Quiet - I'm Hunting Wabbets*
> 
> Okay, so you'd think that doing the dovetail joints would have been the hardest part of this box, right? Me too. I figured on this nice leisurely Sunday afternoon, I'd do the simple task of cutting the rabbets into which the box bottom would fit. Then I'd glue the dovetails and heck, maybe even glue the bottom on. But it turned out to be not so simple, and after much groaning (and nearly cursing), I'm left with two busted pins and only one rabbet done.
> 
> ...


How about assembling the box without the rabbet and then coming back with a rabbeting bit on the router table? Have the bearing ride against the inside faces of the box. You can either keep the corners rounded or square them off with a chisel. With the box already glued up everthing should be stronger.


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Be Vewy Vewy Quiet - I'm Hunting Wabbets*
> 
> Okay, so you'd think that doing the dovetail joints would have been the hardest part of this box, right? Me too. I figured on this nice leisurely Sunday afternoon, I'd do the simple task of cutting the rabbets into which the box bottom would fit. Then I'd glue the dovetails and heck, maybe even glue the bottom on. But it turned out to be not so simple, and after much groaning (and nearly cursing), I'm left with two busted pins and only one rabbet done.
> 
> ...


Tomcat: Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. Glad to hear it might be a good idea.

tpastore: While I do have a router, I have yet to make a table and am in fact trying to go entirely power-free (powerless?) during this project. I see that it would be much easier with a router, but there's something about the problem-solvingness about this conundrum that I rather like.

I'm actually thinking about selling my router. Would let me buy more hand tools!


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## ChicoWoodnut (Dec 15, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Be Vewy Vewy Quiet - I'm Hunting Wabbets*
> 
> Okay, so you'd think that doing the dovetail joints would have been the hardest part of this box, right? Me too. I figured on this nice leisurely Sunday afternoon, I'd do the simple task of cutting the rabbets into which the box bottom would fit. Then I'd glue the dovetails and heck, maybe even glue the bottom on. But it turned out to be not so simple, and after much groaning (and nearly cursing), I'm left with two busted pins and only one rabbet done.
> 
> ...


Eric,

I think what you need is a little router plane. Maybe you could make one.


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## Dorje (Jun 17, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Be Vewy Vewy Quiet - I'm Hunting Wabbets*
> 
> Okay, so you'd think that doing the dovetail joints would have been the hardest part of this box, right? Me too. I figured on this nice leisurely Sunday afternoon, I'd do the simple task of cutting the rabbets into which the box bottom would fit. Then I'd glue the dovetails and heck, maybe even glue the bottom on. But it turned out to be not so simple, and after much groaning (and nearly cursing), I'm left with two busted pins and only one rabbet done.
> 
> ...


Not the easiet task you've set for yourself! Good luck with the other rabbets.


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## Gofor (Jan 12, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Be Vewy Vewy Quiet - I'm Hunting Wabbets*
> 
> Okay, so you'd think that doing the dovetail joints would have been the hardest part of this box, right? Me too. I figured on this nice leisurely Sunday afternoon, I'd do the simple task of cutting the rabbets into which the box bottom would fit. Then I'd glue the dovetails and heck, maybe even glue the bottom on. But it turned out to be not so simple, and after much groaning (and nearly cursing), I'm left with two busted pins and only one rabbet done.
> 
> ...


You might try using a backsaw to cut most of the wood away on the rabbet, or use your dovetail saw on the ends as you get close. This will greatly reduce the stress on the pins so you can just pare them.
Clamp a squared board on the rabbet line to guide the back saw blade. You can use a regular rip saw but it will be more difficult to start as they are usually more aggressive. A crosscut will be easier to start and work down flat if you don't have a back saw.
If you have a back saw, you can clamp a stop block where you want the rabbet to stop, and use the tip of the saw to cut as close as you can. It wears the teeth but works, although some fine chisel work will be needed to square things up.

Go


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*Dovetails Glued Up, Now for the Top*

No pics today, but there's not much new to look at compared to last week's final fit. A big step was rabbeting the walls for the bottom to fit up into. After doing one wall, I got some very helpful feedback from Dave and Luis over on my personal website that I should do a dado instead that the rabbeted bottom would fit into. The advice came a day too late, although I did consider doing the dado on the other three walls. But alas, I don't have a blade small enough (the smallest I have is my 1/4" chisel) to make a very narrow dado, so I ended up just going ahead with the rabbeted walls. On the plus side, the bottom is fitting in very snugly, so I may just add a couple drops of glue on the ends, as Luis suggested, and that should do it; as long as my wife doesn't drop a wrench into the box, it should hold.

One thing that I had mentioned in the post I wrote after doing the first rabbet was that I busted both pins (since the rabbet doesn't go all the way to the edge, it's tricky). It was frustrating, but I glued them up and moved on. Well, wouldn't you know that I busted at least one pin or tail on each of the remaining three walls, no matter how careful I was? I tell ya, this is the last time I work in miniature (that's what it feels like). But you know what? It actually helped me to relax more, as I trusted the glue and tried even harder to not bust anything on the next wall. I told my wife that even if she looks hard, I don't think she'll see more than two places (out of seven) where I had to glue up something I broke - if she even sees those.

So now that I've rambled on about the dovetails and rabbets, on to the next step: the top. Here's what I'm thinking, and please give me your feedback on whether it's a good idea or not. The end grain looks ugly and screams to be covered up. So mitered edges, yes? But how would it look/work if I used a strip of sapwood (same wood, kempas) for a little color variation like this:










I'm thinking that the middle strip would be pretty thin, like 1/4" or less. What are your thoughts? Any other ideas? And as for size, I think that I will make the top just a touch wider than the walls, so there is just the very slightest bit of overhang. It seems appealing in a tactile kind of way. Then there's the issue of glue-up and saw-off. It seems from the pictures I've seen that it's okay to saw off the lid in between (or even on!) a tail. Is that right? Seems kind of funny to have the dovetails go *zoop!* up with the lid when you open it, but maybe that's the way they do it.

So my questions for you esteemed woodies:


Am I on target with my general box top design?
Will the use of sapwood sandwiched between heartwood present any problems?
Will I really cut the top off in between tails?

Thanks so much to those of you who have commented here and on Adventures in Woodworking. I'm learning a lot!


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## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Dovetails Glued Up, Now for the Top*
> 
> No pics today, but there's not much new to look at compared to last week's final fit. A big step was rabbeting the walls for the bottom to fit up into. After doing one wall, I got some very helpful feedback from Dave and Luis over on my personal website that I should do a dado instead that the rabbeted bottom would fit into. The advice came a day too late, although I did consider doing the dado on the other three walls. But alas, I don't have a blade small enough (the smallest I have is my 1/4" chisel) to make a very narrow dado, so I ended up just going ahead with the rabbeted walls. On the plus side, the bottom is fitting in very snugly, so I may just add a couple drops of glue on the ends, as Luis suggested, and that should do it; as long as my wife doesn't drop a wrench into the box, it should hold.
> 
> ...


Looks good. I would think about over hanging the side by at least 1/4" to 1/2".

Another great idea would be to make the top at lease 1" thick and then bevel the sides until just
before your inlay. 1/4" think at the edge would be nice.

Kind of like this but not so steep a bevel.


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Dovetails Glued Up, Now for the Top*
> 
> No pics today, but there's not much new to look at compared to last week's final fit. A big step was rabbeting the walls for the bottom to fit up into. After doing one wall, I got some very helpful feedback from Dave and Luis over on my personal website that I should do a dado instead that the rabbeted bottom would fit into. The advice came a day too late, although I did consider doing the dado on the other three walls. But alas, I don't have a blade small enough (the smallest I have is my 1/4" chisel) to make a very narrow dado, so I ended up just going ahead with the rabbeted walls. On the plus side, the bottom is fitting in very snugly, so I may just add a couple drops of glue on the ends, as Luis suggested, and that should do it; as long as my wife doesn't drop a wrench into the box, it should hold.
> 
> ...


Hey Gary, great ideas. Thanks for your feedback. I have two followup questions:


would a 1" thick top look weird on a box that is so far only 2" without the top?
I can't quite picture what you're describing with the bevel and inlay. Are you saying the outer edge would be 1/4"? What about the thickness of the sapwood - also 1/4"? And are you saying that the inlay wouldn't necessarily be beveled? Sorry…I'm not getting it.

EDIT: Oh wait - you added a picture. I think it's more clear now. But just a bit. :^) That kind of slanted bevel would be tricky with hand tools. I think.


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## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Dovetails Glued Up, Now for the Top*
> 
> No pics today, but there's not much new to look at compared to last week's final fit. A big step was rabbeting the walls for the bottom to fit up into. After doing one wall, I got some very helpful feedback from Dave and Luis over on my personal website that I should do a dado instead that the rabbeted bottom would fit into. The advice came a day too late, although I did consider doing the dado on the other three walls. But alas, I don't have a blade small enough (the smallest I have is my 1/4" chisel) to make a very narrow dado, so I ended up just going ahead with the rabbeted walls. On the plus side, the bottom is fitting in very snugly, so I may just add a couple drops of glue on the ends, as Luis suggested, and that should do it; as long as my wife doesn't drop a wrench into the box, it should hold.
> 
> ...


Ah, I didn't know that you were using only hand tools. And yes 1" would be too thick for a 2" box.

1/2" would be nice. As for the bevel, that won't be to hard with hand tools. Just do a little around all
four sides. Then a little more and then a little more, until either you are done or it's getting too hard
to do.

Just a liight bevel for such a small box.


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Dovetails Glued Up, Now for the Top*
> 
> No pics today, but there's not much new to look at compared to last week's final fit. A big step was rabbeting the walls for the bottom to fit up into. After doing one wall, I got some very helpful feedback from Dave and Luis over on my personal website that I should do a dado instead that the rabbeted bottom would fit into. The advice came a day too late, although I did consider doing the dado on the other three walls. But alas, I don't have a blade small enough (the smallest I have is my 1/4" chisel) to make a very narrow dado, so I ended up just going ahead with the rabbeted walls. On the plus side, the bottom is fitting in very snugly, so I may just add a couple drops of glue on the ends, as Luis suggested, and that should do it; as long as my wife doesn't drop a wrench into the box, it should hold.
> 
> ...


Ok I see. I looked at the bigger pictures of your box on your projects page. I like how the bevel sort of hides the miters. So would I just take a hand plane to the edges, leaning the plane so as to take more wood off the top part and create the bevel?


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## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Dovetails Glued Up, Now for the Top*
> 
> No pics today, but there's not much new to look at compared to last week's final fit. A big step was rabbeting the walls for the bottom to fit up into. After doing one wall, I got some very helpful feedback from Dave and Luis over on my personal website that I should do a dado instead that the rabbeted bottom would fit into. The advice came a day too late, although I did consider doing the dado on the other three walls. But alas, I don't have a blade small enough (the smallest I have is my 1/4" chisel) to make a very narrow dado, so I ended up just going ahead with the rabbeted walls. On the plus side, the bottom is fitting in very snugly, so I may just add a couple drops of glue on the ends, as Luis suggested, and that should do it; as long as my wife doesn't drop a wrench into the box, it should hold.
> 
> ...


You got it. Just do it a little at a time.


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*Next Obstacle: The Lid*

*NOTE:* As is my custom, my list of newbie questions are at the end of this post.

So a week or two ago I wrote about my plans for the box lid. In short, it was going to have mitered edges with a thin strip of the lighter-colored sapwood (would you call it an inlay?) in between the mitered edges and the center piece. Today I took advantage of the Saturday down time to try to make it happen.

A few days ago, I resawed a small block of wood 1/2" thick and ripped it into four pieces each about 3/4" wide. I was trying to rig it so that the sapwood inlay would be visible about 1/4" in from the edge as you look at the underside of the lid. Then I ripped very thin strips of sapwood (I really love that ryoba), and here's what I had (the bottom sapwood strip would be cut in half, for the shorter edges):



I glued them onto the heartwood pieces and was pretty pleased with the tight edges. A small amount of tinkering brought the mitered edges together (more or less). I did a combination of planing and sanding. It's mostly there, but I'll need to do a little more to have them be perfectly tight. You can also see a bit of unevenness in the height of the pieces; one of my weak points is getting a perfectly flat board. So once it's all together, I'll plane it even. But overall, I think it looks okay:



Then came the center piece. I chose to do this last because I recently heard Marc (aka The Wood Whisperer) say that in joinery, he always did the "female" part first, and then fit the "male" part to that. So for example, he'd do mortise and then tenon.

So I already had a piece that was the original top (before I went with a thicker one) that is about 1/4" thick. My idea was to have that be the center piece, flush with the edges on the top and recessed on the underside. I'd bevel the insides of the mitered edges so that they met the center piece and give it a nice little look (I even thought of putting a mirror in there, but don't feel like going to get one cut to size).

But then inexperience reared its ugly head and smashed my teetering confidence. I spent so much time trying to get two of the sides flush with the mitered edges, I ended up having a very slightly undersized piece. Here's the pic (click to enlarge):



It's grossly undersized lengthwise, and just a tad undersized in width. My first inclination was, "Fix it!" I thought maybe I'd cut that center piece in half and glue another thin strip of sapwood in between them. But maybe I'd be better off just resawing another center piece. So here are my questions:

Most importantly: How would you advise me to fit the center piece to the mitered edges, using only hand tools? Maybe my method is okay, but just needs more practice. Would you do it differently? The mitered edges are still loose (unglued), by the way.
I'm considering having the centerpiece be slightly *thicker* than the mitered edges, and having them stand a bit proud on both sides (and chamfered). What do you think? Might make glue-up a bit tricky.
Is there a way to "cheat" to get the edges to mate well, or at least to disguise a less-than-perfect mating?


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## TheCaver (Nov 21, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Next Obstacle: The Lid*
> 
> *NOTE:* As is my custom, my list of newbie questions are at the end of this post.
> 
> ...


The problem with a perfect mate here is that it will blow the frame apart in the future. The only way that I know of to get this to work and have the top perfectly flush is to use ply/veneer to stop the panel from expanding.

In any case, I didn't see your panel groove. You will need to cut a 1/4 (or 1/8) groove on your mitered pieces for the panel to be captured in, whether you stand it proud, flush, or just have it below the surface. If you go with a 1/8th, you will have to rabbet the 1/4 top by 1/8th.

Believe me, after the 75 boxes or so that I have made, none that I have tried to accomplish this with solid wood has worked out. The ones I overengineered with splines and such just shrank and left a gap in cooler weather. So no matter what you do, you will have to deal with expansion/contraction, and IMHO, the best way to do that on a box top is to use a veneer…..And a piece this small, you can veneer without all the fancy vacuum pumps and such…..

Let me know if you need more help or would like some pics of what I am talking about. You can also get Doug Stowes boxmaking book, it is generally considered the authority on basic boxmaking.

Good luck,

JC


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## TheCaver (Nov 21, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Next Obstacle: The Lid*
> 
> *NOTE:* As is my custom, my list of newbie questions are at the end of this post.
> 
> ...


I just noticed that you are a neander, er, hand tool guy. Not being familiar with the ways of the wise, I can't see how you would cut the small groove, short of a router plane. Barring that, you could cut a rabbet on the underside of the lid to allow the panel to float, however, you will still have the problems stated above…..

Best,

JC


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*Hand-Cut Veneer*

So I don't have access to store-bought veneer (no stores) and I don't have a bandsaw, so it looks like I'm on my own for veneer. And since I needed it for this box lid, why not start now? I was feeling pretty confident going into this endeavor with my new ryoba. And it didn't let me down.

I didn't measure or mark anything. A fellow LumberJock told me it should be 1/16" or thinner. So I just put the saw a smidge away from the edge of the board and tried to keep my line even horizontally and vertically. I also don't have a real vise, so I just laid the board up against the "bench" and sawed away!



After resawing the veneer off of my board, it looked pretty good - mostly even thickness, and it was right around 1/16" thick at its thickest point.



I sanded it down a little (tricky to hold on to such a thin little piece!) and then slapped it good-side-up onto my plywood panel.



And there we go! The veneer might be a tiny bit short, but I'm starting to lower my standards a bit and just want to get this thing done. I missed my Valentine's Day deadline and just missed my wife's birthday - I don't want to let Mother's Day go by before finishing! The other thing I should have done was to sandwich the plywood/veneer glueup in between a couple pieces of wood, for a more even clamp. When it was all dry, I saw that the veneer had lifted up very slightly on one edge. Shouldn't affect the end product, though, as the top of the veneer is what I'm making flush with the top of the lid. So here's what it looks like (none of the components are glued yet):



Thanks to everyone who gave me such great advice on how to do the lid!


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## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Hand-Cut Veneer*
> 
> So I don't have access to store-bought veneer (no stores) and I don't have a bandsaw, so it looks like I'm on my own for veneer. And since I needed it for this box lid, why not start now? I was feeling pretty confident going into this endeavor with my new ryoba. And it didn't let me down.
> 
> ...


Eric,

You are making progress. This box is starting to take shape. If you get this finished before Mother's day I am sure all will be forgiven.

By the way this is a nice example of problem solving. You were faced with the veneer challenge and could have used it as an excuse for not doing the box. Instead you looked on it as an opportunity to explore an alternative technique and generated your own veneer. Very innovative.


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## ChicoWoodnut (Dec 15, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Hand-Cut Veneer*
> 
> So I don't have access to store-bought veneer (no stores) and I don't have a bandsaw, so it looks like I'm on my own for veneer. And since I needed it for this box lid, why not start now? I was feeling pretty confident going into this endeavor with my new ryoba. And it didn't let me down.
> 
> ...


Are you gonna fill those gaps with some nice contrasting wood strips?


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## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Hand-Cut Veneer*
> 
> So I don't have access to store-bought veneer (no stores) and I don't have a bandsaw, so it looks like I'm on my own for veneer. And since I needed it for this box lid, why not start now? I was feeling pretty confident going into this endeavor with my new ryoba. And it didn't let me down.
> 
> ...


That's some darn fine veneer cutting you did there!


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Hand-Cut Veneer*
> 
> So I don't have access to store-bought veneer (no stores) and I don't have a bandsaw, so it looks like I'm on my own for veneer. And since I needed it for this box lid, why not start now? I was feeling pretty confident going into this endeavor with my new ryoba. And it didn't let me down.
> 
> ...


Scott: I told my wife that I'm learning so much, the second one of these (I haven't told her it's a box) will be much better. "Do you want the second one, then?" I asked. And she said, "Oh no way, I want the first one, with all the blood, sweat and tears." Good woman.

Other Scott: Which gaps are you referring to? The few gaps I have are too small for me to fill (my veneering isn't THAT fine!). They'll probably be noticeable, but not obnoxious.

GaryK: Thanks, as always! You're LJ's finest cheerleader. In a macho guy kind of way, that is. No pom-poms.


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## TheCaver (Nov 21, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Hand-Cut Veneer*
> 
> So I don't have access to store-bought veneer (no stores) and I don't have a bandsaw, so it looks like I'm on my own for veneer. And since I needed it for this box lid, why not start now? I was feeling pretty confident going into this endeavor with my new ryoba. And it didn't let me down.
> 
> ...


All that by hand, thats impressive! i don't know if I could stick with it that long before going the power route 

And now you have a lid which will not blow out your miters  Now use that Ryoba to cut some veneer keys into the miters of the frame for a decorative touch and to lend a bit more strength to the miters….. 

Cheers,

JC


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## Betsy (Sep 25, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Hand-Cut Veneer*
> 
> So I don't have access to store-bought veneer (no stores) and I don't have a bandsaw, so it looks like I'm on my own for veneer. And since I needed it for this box lid, why not start now? I was feeling pretty confident going into this endeavor with my new ryoba. And it didn't let me down.
> 
> ...


Eric - mighty fine veneer. I think you have to be pretty patient to hand cut a board that thin. Well done.

Best get it finished up soon though. Mother's day will be here before you blink!

Good luck.


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Hand-Cut Veneer*
> 
> So I don't have access to store-bought veneer (no stores) and I don't have a bandsaw, so it looks like I'm on my own for veneer. And since I needed it for this box lid, why not start now? I was feeling pretty confident going into this endeavor with my new ryoba. And it didn't let me down.
> 
> ...


TheCaver: Not another thing to do!!!!

(Well, maybe)


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## Dorje (Jun 17, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Hand-Cut Veneer*
> 
> So I don't have access to store-bought veneer (no stores) and I don't have a bandsaw, so it looks like I'm on my own for veneer. And since I needed it for this box lid, why not start now? I was feeling pretty confident going into this endeavor with my new ryoba. And it didn't let me down.
> 
> ...


Way to go on the veneer and getting the top together! JCs idea re: the keys is a a good one to add strength to the mitered joints, which don't have too much holding power in them. You went through the process of cutting the veneer; I bet you could cut slivers as thin as a saw kerf to make the key stock!

Have fun - whatever you do!


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## cajunpen (Apr 9, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Hand-Cut Veneer*
> 
> So I don't have access to store-bought veneer (no stores) and I don't have a bandsaw, so it looks like I'm on my own for veneer. And since I needed it for this box lid, why not start now? I was feeling pretty confident going into this endeavor with my new ryoba. And it didn't let me down.
> 
> ...


Eric - you da man - cutting veneer with a handsaw! Good job.


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## rikkor (Oct 17, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Hand-Cut Veneer*
> 
> So I don't have access to store-bought veneer (no stores) and I don't have a bandsaw, so it looks like I'm on my own for veneer. And since I needed it for this box lid, why not start now? I was feeling pretty confident going into this endeavor with my new ryoba. And it didn't let me down.
> 
> ...


Wow, hand sawn veneer. That's impressive.


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## FRITZ (Jul 18, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Hand-Cut Veneer*
> 
> So I don't have access to store-bought veneer (no stores) and I don't have a bandsaw, so it looks like I'm on my own for veneer. And since I needed it for this box lid, why not start now? I was feeling pretty confident going into this endeavor with my new ryoba. And it didn't let me down.
> 
> ...


project looking go,, if you ever need some nice exotic veneer feel free to check me out i sell all type of veneer ''ebay rjfritz123''
again project looks good
thanks ron


----------



## FRITZ (Jul 18, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Hand-Cut Veneer*
> 
> So I don't have access to store-bought veneer (no stores) and I don't have a bandsaw, so it looks like I'm on my own for veneer. And since I needed it for this box lid, why not start now? I was feeling pretty confident going into this endeavor with my new ryoba. And it didn't let me down.
> 
> ...


project looking go,, if you ever need some nice exotic veneer feel free to check me out i sell all type of veneer ''ebay rjfritz123''
again project looks good
thanks ron


----------



## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Hand-Cut Veneer*
> 
> So I don't have access to store-bought veneer (no stores) and I don't have a bandsaw, so it looks like I'm on my own for veneer. And since I needed it for this box lid, why not start now? I was feeling pretty confident going into this endeavor with my new ryoba. And it didn't let me down.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Ron, but I make my own exotic veneers, can't ya see? :^)


----------



## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Hand-Cut Veneer*
> 
> So I don't have access to store-bought veneer (no stores) and I don't have a bandsaw, so it looks like I'm on my own for veneer. And since I needed it for this box lid, why not start now? I was feeling pretty confident going into this endeavor with my new ryoba. And it didn't let me down.
> 
> ...


Impressive cutting…I was just dreaming about doing this and here you have gone and done it. Your result is an inspiration to me. My thinking was 'I don't have ….' so to see you do it with the same kind of limitations encourages me to give it a try…thanks!


----------



## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Hand-Cut Veneer*
> 
> So I don't have access to store-bought veneer (no stores) and I don't have a bandsaw, so it looks like I'm on my own for veneer. And since I needed it for this box lid, why not start now? I was feeling pretty confident going into this endeavor with my new ryoba. And it didn't let me down.
> 
> ...


Welcome, Mark. Can't say I did anything spectacular, though, except to give it a try! So go for it!


----------



## sptfish (Jan 7, 2010)

offseid said:


> *Hand-Cut Veneer*
> 
> So I don't have access to store-bought veneer (no stores) and I don't have a bandsaw, so it looks like I'm on my own for veneer. And since I needed it for this box lid, why not start now? I was feeling pretty confident going into this endeavor with my new ryoba. And it didn't let me down.
> 
> ...


Mark, that is very impressive. I told myself I couldn't make my own veneer. Now I know I was wrong, and am going to try it. 
Thanks for the info.


----------



## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*Feelin' Groovy*

Well, it's been a while since I've had time to work on the box for my wife. But with Mother's Day coming up soon(ish), I really want to get crackin' on it. I have several things to do, some major and some minor. So I started with the minor. Sanded the entire box (minus lid) and glued up the bottom. The bottom simply fits (a bit snugly) into the rabbeted walls, so it's not the best solution. But as I think I said earlier, as long as my wife doesn't drop something heavy into the box, that bottom shouldn't be going anywhere. I used glue only in a few spots along each end, so the sides will be able to move. It's the best I could do at this point, as I just want to get the box done.

Now for the major stuff. The stuff that I can't afford to screw up because I really don't have it in me to make new parts. The gut check stuff. The lid.

My lid is still in four pieces - mitered with an inlay on the interior edge. My task today was to create grooves in the interior edges, into which I'll glue a plywood panel. Then I'll custom cut a slightly thick veneer to glue on the top and bottom of the plywood. For the top, I'll either go for a flush fit, or perhaps a slightly proud piece that chamfers down to meet the inlay. On the bottom I think I'll have it recessed a bit from the frame, and chamfer the inlay to meet it. You may recall that I already did my hand-cut veneer, but the plywood that I glued it to was too thick for the mitered frame.

So here's what I've done so far. I had time for two of the frame pieces. You can see the first veneered panel in the background. I cut the outer lines of the groove with my ryoba saw, and then ran my 1/4" chisel down the middle until I got to the right depth (about 3/8").



When I inserted the panel, it fit so nicely that I grunted/shouted, "This is *awesome*!" My wife heard me and thought something had gone wrong. On the contrary…



So. Good progress today. I figure another hour or so for my obsessive-compulsive self to do the other two pieces. It's a bit stressful marking and cutting these narrow pieces, but so far so good.


----------



## ChicoWoodnut (Dec 15, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Feelin' Groovy*
> 
> Well, it's been a while since I've had time to work on the box for my wife. But with Mother's Day coming up soon(ish), I really want to get crackin' on it. I have several things to do, some major and some minor. So I started with the minor. Sanded the entire box (minus lid) and glued up the bottom. The bottom simply fits (a bit snugly) into the rabbeted walls, so it's not the best solution. But as I think I said earlier, as long as my wife doesn't drop something heavy into the box, that bottom shouldn't be going anywhere. I used glue only in a few spots along each end, so the sides will be able to move. It's the best I could do at this point, as I just want to get the box done.
> 
> ...


Looks like it's coming along nicely. I can't imagine cutting panel grooves with a chisel. Nice work.


----------



## Thuan (Dec 12, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Feelin' Groovy*
> 
> Well, it's been a while since I've had time to work on the box for my wife. But with Mother's Day coming up soon(ish), I really want to get crackin' on it. I have several things to do, some major and some minor. So I started with the minor. Sanded the entire box (minus lid) and glued up the bottom. The bottom simply fits (a bit snugly) into the rabbeted walls, so it's not the best solution. But as I think I said earlier, as long as my wife doesn't drop something heavy into the box, that bottom shouldn't be going anywhere. I used glue only in a few spots along each end, so the sides will be able to move. It's the best I could do at this point, as I just want to get the box done.
> 
> ...


Takes a lot of concentration to use hand tools with the precision you do, especially on small decorative pieces. I work on large pieces pieces because it's more forgiving, I just keep stepping back until it looks perfect. Your box is coming together beautifully.


----------



## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Feelin' Groovy*
> 
> Well, it's been a while since I've had time to work on the box for my wife. But with Mother's Day coming up soon(ish), I really want to get crackin' on it. I have several things to do, some major and some minor. So I started with the minor. Sanded the entire box (minus lid) and glued up the bottom. The bottom simply fits (a bit snugly) into the rabbeted walls, so it's not the best solution. But as I think I said earlier, as long as my wife doesn't drop something heavy into the box, that bottom shouldn't be going anywhere. I used glue only in a few spots along each end, so the sides will be able to move. It's the best I could do at this point, as I just want to get the box done.
> 
> ...


Looks like you're making good progress! Keep us posted.


----------



## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Feelin' Groovy*
> 
> Well, it's been a while since I've had time to work on the box for my wife. But with Mother's Day coming up soon(ish), I really want to get crackin' on it. I have several things to do, some major and some minor. So I started with the minor. Sanded the entire box (minus lid) and glued up the bottom. The bottom simply fits (a bit snugly) into the rabbeted walls, so it's not the best solution. But as I think I said earlier, as long as my wife doesn't drop something heavy into the box, that bottom shouldn't be going anywhere. I used glue only in a few spots along each end, so the sides will be able to move. It's the best I could do at this point, as I just want to get the box done.
> 
> ...


Hi Eric,

You are making excellent progress on the box. Keep the posts comings. As I have often said posts like this are better than any reality show on television.

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*Feedback Requested Before Lid Glue-Up*

Okay, so I finished my panel grooves in my lid frame, and in the next day or two, I'll glue up my lid. I'll tell you what I'm planning to do, and could you let me know if anything sounds funky? Please refer to my previous post for some background, if needed.

1. I'll run some glue down the grooves of two [adjacent] frame pieces, and on the two miters I'm connecting. Wait a few minutes for the end grain to soak up some of the glue, and then reapply some more on the miters. Holding them up against a square, assemble the two frame pieces and insert the plywood into the grooves. At some point I need to put some masking tape on the outside of the frame, but I'm not sure when that will happen.
2. Repeat previous step for frame piece #3, and then lastly with frame piece #4.
3. Not sure what to use to clamp something this small. I was thinking of using some twine to wrap around it (like a band clamp), and then tighten the knot with a stick or pen or something. Kind of like tightening a tourniquet (not that I've done that). Is this necessary? I'd hate to have to make a jig just for this, but even more, I'd hate for my frame to just fall into pieces because it's not glued right.

Thanks for any feedback you might have. Stay tuned!


----------



## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Feedback Requested Before Lid Glue-Up*
> 
> Okay, so I finished my panel grooves in my lid frame, and in the next day or two, I'll glue up my lid. I'll tell you what I'm planning to do, and could you let me know if anything sounds funky? Please refer to my previous post for some background, if needed.
> 
> ...


The tourniquet idea sounds like the way to go. Maybe cut some little 'v' shaped blocks for each corner for
the string to apply pressure to so that it won't dent the corners. Just cut little notches in the inside corners so they don't actually touch the sharp corners. That way you won't glue them to it.

I would glue it all at once.

I don't remember but if your panel is solid wood so you might have to worry about expansion. So you will probably want to leave it floating.


----------



## Dorje (Jun 17, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Feedback Requested Before Lid Glue-Up*
> 
> Okay, so I finished my panel grooves in my lid frame, and in the next day or two, I'll glue up my lid. I'll tell you what I'm planning to do, and could you let me know if anything sounds funky? Please refer to my previous post for some background, if needed.
> 
> ...


Put tape on from the get go, helps with the whole assembly process (also a good way to test fit the miters)...and don't forget to key the miters after the initial glue up has dried.


----------



## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Feedback Requested Before Lid Glue-Up*
> 
> Okay, so I finished my panel grooves in my lid frame, and in the next day or two, I'll glue up my lid. I'll tell you what I'm planning to do, and could you let me know if anything sounds funky? Please refer to my previous post for some background, if needed.
> 
> ...


GaryK: Thanks for the tip on the v-blocks. Will do. And my panel is plywood, so I should be good to go by gluing it, right? It would also function like keys on the interiors of the corners.

Dorje: I'll get to the keys after it's all dried up - but someone (maybe it was GaryK?) suggested leaving the tape on when I do the keys, so I'll follow that advice too.


----------



## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*"T Keys"*

When I asked for feedback on how to glue up the frame pieces for the lid to the box I'm working on, Luis had suggested that I *not* glue the miters, but rather chop little mortises in the miters and glue in some floating tenons. The only problem is that with the size of my miters, they would have to be *very* tiny mortises, and I just didn't have it in me to do it. So here's what I came up with: "T Keys". I decided to run grooves down the length of the mortise, create the key slot, and then cut little t-shaped pieces (of the lighter-colored sapwood that I used for the inlay) which would fit right in. Follow me as I show you what I did (all pictures are clickable for full-size):

First, I put a connected miter joint in the vise and cut the outside lines of my groove and key (to match the thickness of my mini chisel). And yes, I know my pieces are banged up. They've been in the shop too long without being worked on, and have fallen once or twice. I'll probably chamfer that out.



Next, I put the pieces miter-up in the vise and, using the notches as my guide, I cut down the length of the miters (I didn't measure how deep, but it was close to 1/4" I guess).

 

Enter my new allen chisel. I put the mini chisel bevel down and, using the bend in the wrench for leverage (worked nicely), I hogged out the wood in between the cuts.



Next I figured out how wide I wanted my keys to be. I have no idea what the rule of thumb is, but my keys will extend about 1/2" each way from the corner. I then marked and cut down to a line from that point perpendicular to the miter - the depth of my keys. Following that, I hogged out the key slot with my chisel (using a mallet this time).

 

And that's it! I now have t-shaped slots in all four corners. We'll see how it actually comes together later.


----------



## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

offseid said:


> *"T Keys"*
> 
> When I asked for feedback on how to glue up the frame pieces for the lid to the box I'm working on, Luis had suggested that I *not* glue the miters, but rather chop little mortises in the miters and glue in some floating tenons. The only problem is that with the size of my miters, they would have to be *very* tiny mortises, and I just didn't have it in me to do it. So here's what I came up with: "T Keys". I decided to run grooves down the length of the mortise, create the key slot, and then cut little t-shaped pieces (of the lighter-colored sapwood that I used for the inlay) which would fit right in. Follow me as I show you what I did (all pictures are clickable for full-size):
> 
> ...


Pretty inventive! Looking good so far.


----------



## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

offseid said:


> *"T Keys"*
> 
> When I asked for feedback on how to glue up the frame pieces for the lid to the box I'm working on, Luis had suggested that I *not* glue the miters, but rather chop little mortises in the miters and glue in some floating tenons. The only problem is that with the size of my miters, they would have to be *very* tiny mortises, and I just didn't have it in me to do it. So here's what I came up with: "T Keys". I decided to run grooves down the length of the mortise, create the key slot, and then cut little t-shaped pieces (of the lighter-colored sapwood that I used for the inlay) which would fit right in. Follow me as I show you what I did (all pictures are clickable for full-size):
> 
> ...


Eric,

Your resourcefulness never ceases to amaze me.


----------



## ChicoWoodnut (Dec 15, 2007)

offseid said:


> *"T Keys"*
> 
> When I asked for feedback on how to glue up the frame pieces for the lid to the box I'm working on, Luis had suggested that I *not* glue the miters, but rather chop little mortises in the miters and glue in some floating tenons. The only problem is that with the size of my miters, they would have to be *very* tiny mortises, and I just didn't have it in me to do it. So here's what I came up with: "T Keys". I decided to run grooves down the length of the mortise, create the key slot, and then cut little t-shaped pieces (of the lighter-colored sapwood that I used for the inlay) which would fit right in. Follow me as I show you what I did (all pictures are clickable for full-size):
> 
> ...


I am bemazed! nice solution.


----------



## teenagewoodworker (Jan 31, 2008)

offseid said:


> *"T Keys"*
> 
> When I asked for feedback on how to glue up the frame pieces for the lid to the box I'm working on, Luis had suggested that I *not* glue the miters, but rather chop little mortises in the miters and glue in some floating tenons. The only problem is that with the size of my miters, they would have to be *very* tiny mortises, and I just didn't have it in me to do it. So here's what I came up with: "T Keys". I decided to run grooves down the length of the mortise, create the key slot, and then cut little t-shaped pieces (of the lighter-colored sapwood that I used for the inlay) which would fit right in. Follow me as I show you what I did (all pictures are clickable for full-size):
> 
> ...


wow thats a nice solution. thanks for sharing.


----------



## Betsy (Sep 25, 2007)

offseid said:


> *"T Keys"*
> 
> When I asked for feedback on how to glue up the frame pieces for the lid to the box I'm working on, Luis had suggested that I *not* glue the miters, but rather chop little mortises in the miters and glue in some floating tenons. The only problem is that with the size of my miters, they would have to be *very* tiny mortises, and I just didn't have it in me to do it. So here's what I came up with: "T Keys". I decided to run grooves down the length of the mortise, create the key slot, and then cut little t-shaped pieces (of the lighter-colored sapwood that I used for the inlay) which would fit right in. Follow me as I show you what I did (all pictures are clickable for full-size):
> 
> ...


Pretty nifty Eric. Where there's a will, there's a way as they say.


----------



## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*Gluing Up the Lid*

The moment of truth. The point of no return. The bridge beyond despair. Okay, I made that last one up. Time to glue up the lid.

I felt like a surgeon preparing for a big operation. First, I did about three dry runs to practice the glue-up, assembly and "cord clamping". Finally, it was time. I laid out all of my equipment in the order in which I'd need it: glue, spreader (the innards of a foam brush), two squares for the opposite corners, parachute cord and a pencil for tightening, small clamp to hold the pencil in place, and a ruler to measure the diagonals for square. It was harrowing and yet fun.



When it was all said and done, I had a squared-up lid. For the cord clamp, I actually ran the cord in the key slots. I then tied two loops near each end and ran a pencil through those loops. Then I wound the pencil up as tightly as possible, and used the clamps merely to keep the pencil from spinning back the other way.



One last shot just for a different angle:



Next stop: Cutting the keys, and slicing off some veneer for the top and bottom of the lid.


----------



## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Gluing Up the Lid*
> 
> The moment of truth. The point of no return. The bridge beyond despair. Okay, I made that last one up. Time to glue up the lid.
> 
> ...


Eric,

This is looking pretty good so far.

Keep the posts coming. I am enjoying this.


----------



## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Gluing Up the Lid*
> 
> The moment of truth. The point of no return. The bridge beyond despair. Okay, I made that last one up. Time to glue up the lid.
> 
> ...


You are doing a great job Eric. It knida reminds me of Fred Flintstone, just using hand tools


----------



## teenagewoodworker (Jan 31, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Gluing Up the Lid*
> 
> The moment of truth. The point of no return. The bridge beyond despair. Okay, I made that last one up. Time to glue up the lid.
> 
> ...


looking great Eric. nice idea with the two pencils and the clamp to tighten it up. I have a comision for a very large frame to make. i think i will try this method to clamp it. Thanks for the post!


----------



## AdMarkGuy (Jan 1, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Gluing Up the Lid*
> 
> The moment of truth. The point of no return. The bridge beyond despair. Okay, I made that last one up. Time to glue up the lid.
> 
> ...


Great job- very nice solution with the pen and chord for a very discreet band clamp.


----------



## Dorje (Jun 17, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Gluing Up the Lid*
> 
> The moment of truth. The point of no return. The bridge beyond despair. Okay, I made that last one up. Time to glue up the lid.
> 
> ...


Those slots for the keys sure worked out as a nice way to help pull that frame together! You're in the home stretch…

Not that finishing it is any more important as the process!


----------



## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*Gluing in the T-Keys*

Last week I cut the grooves for my "t-keys" and the other day I glued up the lid. Yesterday, I glued in the t-keys. Here's a shot of the t-keys just prior to glue-up:



Since I cut the slots by hand, the slight variations in each meant that I had to cut each t-key to match each slot. Even though I carefully fitted each one prior to glue-up, I still had a major glitch with one of them; it wouldn't go in. When I tried to pull it out, the base of the "t" broke off. So I cleaned it up as best I could and glued in a simple key. Here's the post-glueup shot:



This morning, I cut off the waste, and then sanded the whole thing down from 80 to 240 grit. Here are the before and after pics (click to enlarge):

 

I'm definitely feeling it all coming together very quickly now. All that's left is to veneer the top and bottom of the lid panels, chamfer/shape the lid, glue it on, cut it off and hinge it up!


----------



## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Gluing in the T-Keys*
> 
> Last week I cut the grooves for my "t-keys" and the other day I glued up the lid. Yesterday, I glued in the t-keys. Here's a shot of the t-keys just prior to glue-up:
> 
> ...


Eric,

This is looking pretty good.

Keep the posts coming.


----------



## teenagewoodworker (Jan 31, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Gluing in the T-Keys*
> 
> Last week I cut the grooves for my "t-keys" and the other day I glued up the lid. Yesterday, I glued in the t-keys. Here's a shot of the t-keys just prior to glue-up:
> 
> ...


great job. those t keys look great! thanks for the post.


----------



## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Gluing in the T-Keys*
> 
> Last week I cut the grooves for my "t-keys" and the other day I glued up the lid. Yesterday, I glued in the t-keys. Here's a shot of the t-keys just prior to glue-up:
> 
> ...


You're making good progress, Eric. Nice job.


----------



## Karson (May 9, 2006)

offseid said:


> *Gluing in the T-Keys*
> 
> Last week I cut the grooves for my "t-keys" and the other day I glued up the lid. Yesterday, I glued in the t-keys. Here's a shot of the t-keys just prior to glue-up:
> 
> ...


Interesting looking keys. great looking project.


----------



## Grumpy (Nov 9, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Gluing in the T-Keys*
> 
> Last week I cut the grooves for my "t-keys" and the other day I glued up the lid. Yesterday, I glued in the t-keys. Here's a shot of the t-keys just prior to glue-up:
> 
> ...


Looking good Eric.


----------



## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*Mothers Day Gift - The Box Is Done!*

Back at the end of January (yes, 2008), I said that I wanted to make, and I quote myself, "a simple dovetail box." I planned to make it for my wife. I don't think I really expected to finish it by Valentine's Day, but I did expect that it would be done for her birthday (mid-March). That came and went, leaving me with Mothers Day as my next target date. As I finally figured out how to do the lid, it all started coming together very quickly, and I found myself on Mothers Day Eve with a great chance at being done. So here we go:

First off, the hinges. This was quite tricky. First time with hinges, and you'd think I'd have done some research first, but nope. I carefully pared away the mortise for the hinge until I had each one on top and bottom at about 1/16" deep. As you can see, I'm working at night with just a desk lamp. The kids' room is just on the other side of those windows, so I can't use the big bright lights.





Then it was the moment of truth. Sheesh, it seems like near the end of the project, every single thing is a moment of truth. It's nervewracking. I did read about how easy it is to mess up brass screws, but I didn't have any steel ones that size to bore the hole with, so I folded over some duct tape and drove the screw in with the tape protecting the screw. I think it worked!



At last. The final moment of truth. Screwing on the other side of the hinges, and seeing how the lid mates with the box. Actually, I had to do a little bit of tweaking (which does not mean I bent the hinges) to get it to mate well, but it did! It's not perfect, though; the lid is just a bit too far forward, but the sides are flush. I can live with that.

So here are final pictures of the box as I'll present it to my wife. After I finish it (oil/varnish/mineral spirits), I'll post it on my Projects page and I'll give a rundown on how it went overall, what I learned, etc. In a nutshell, though, I'm happy with it overall although there are many things that went wrong and I had to fix - and the fixes don't look all that great in my eyes. But more on that later. I'm proud to present this box to my amazing wife for Mothers Day, and I'll also present to her this series of posts so she can see how it came together. Here's the box!


----------



## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Mothers Day Gift - The Box Is Done!*
> 
> Back at the end of January (yes, 2008), I said that I wanted to make, and I quote myself, "a simple dovetail box." I planned to make it for my wife. I don't think I really expected to finish it by Valentine's Day, but I did expect that it would be done for her birthday (mid-March). That came and went, leaving me with Mothers Day as my next target date. As I finally figured out how to do the lid, it all started coming together very quickly, and I found myself on Mothers Day Eve with a great chance at being done. So here we go:
> 
> ...


Great job Eric! and just in time. It's been great watching your trials and tribulations through this project.

I know she will enjoy it very much!


----------



## ChicoWoodnut (Dec 15, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Mothers Day Gift - The Box Is Done!*
> 
> Back at the end of January (yes, 2008), I said that I wanted to make, and I quote myself, "a simple dovetail box." I planned to make it for my wife. I don't think I really expected to finish it by Valentine's Day, but I did expect that it would be done for her birthday (mid-March). That came and went, leaving me with Mothers Day as my next target date. As I finally figured out how to do the lid, it all started coming together very quickly, and I found myself on Mothers Day Eve with a great chance at being done. So here we go:
> 
> ...


Well it's about time! (Just Kidding) Glad to see you turned it out before Mothers day. Nice job too. What are you dreaming up next?


----------



## Thuan (Dec 12, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Mothers Day Gift - The Box Is Done!*
> 
> Back at the end of January (yes, 2008), I said that I wanted to make, and I quote myself, "a simple dovetail box." I planned to make it for my wife. I don't think I really expected to finish it by Valentine's Day, but I did expect that it would be done for her birthday (mid-March). That came and went, leaving me with Mothers Day as my next target date. As I finally figured out how to do the lid, it all started coming together very quickly, and I found myself on Mothers Day Eve with a great chance at being done. So here we go:
> 
> ...


I was going to say you made it with plenty of time to spare, then I realized you're 12+ hours ahead, so 
cutting it close, but that's a great! I totally enjoyed the trip, looking forward to more.
By the way, becareful of oil on those open grain wood, it'll suck it up and take 5 days to dry. Use shellac if you want it to dry fast. It wouldn't surprise me if you French polished it.


----------



## jjohn (Mar 26, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Mothers Day Gift - The Box Is Done!*
> 
> Back at the end of January (yes, 2008), I said that I wanted to make, and I quote myself, "a simple dovetail box." I planned to make it for my wife. I don't think I really expected to finish it by Valentine's Day, but I did expect that it would be done for her birthday (mid-March). That came and went, leaving me with Mothers Day as my next target date. As I finally figured out how to do the lid, it all started coming together very quickly, and I found myself on Mothers Day Eve with a great chance at being done. So here we go:
> 
> ...


You might want to go ahead and get started on your next project if you want it finished before….Christmas. LOL. Just kidding. Looks really good from the pictures. Can't wait to see your progress on the next project at hand.
By the way…The scrap book cab. I'm building, If it continues at the rate it's going so far it might get done by Christmas, if I'm lucky.


----------



## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Mothers Day Gift - The Box Is Done!*
> 
> Back at the end of January (yes, 2008), I said that I wanted to make, and I quote myself, "a simple dovetail box." I planned to make it for my wife. I don't think I really expected to finish it by Valentine's Day, but I did expect that it would be done for her birthday (mid-March). That came and went, leaving me with Mothers Day as my next target date. As I finally figured out how to do the lid, it all started coming together very quickly, and I found myself on Mothers Day Eve with a great chance at being done. So here we go:
> 
> ...


Eric,

You made it!!!! I have enjoyed this journey. It has been both fun and educational watching you persist and persevere through the challenges that has presented to you. At several points you could easily have given in to the frustration and quit- but you didn't and now you have a gorgeous box to give to her for mother's day.

Well done and the box looks pretty good to me. You did a good job on the dovetails as well.

Thanks for the inspiration.


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## Grumpy (Nov 9, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Mothers Day Gift - The Box Is Done!*
> 
> Back at the end of January (yes, 2008), I said that I wanted to make, and I quote myself, "a simple dovetail box." I planned to make it for my wife. I don't think I really expected to finish it by Valentine's Day, but I did expect that it would be done for her birthday (mid-March). That came and went, leaving me with Mothers Day as my next target date. As I finally figured out how to do the lid, it all started coming together very quickly, and I found myself on Mothers Day Eve with a great chance at being done. So here we go:
> 
> ...


Well done Eric. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## jockmike2 (Oct 10, 2006)

offseid said:


> *Mothers Day Gift - The Box Is Done!*
> 
> Back at the end of January (yes, 2008), I said that I wanted to make, and I quote myself, "a simple dovetail box." I planned to make it for my wife. I don't think I really expected to finish it by Valentine's Day, but I did expect that it would be done for her birthday (mid-March). That came and went, leaving me with Mothers Day as my next target date. As I finally figured out how to do the lid, it all started coming together very quickly, and I found myself on Mothers Day Eve with a great chance at being done. So here we go:
> 
> ...


Very nice box and well made, I might add. excellent job overall. I bet she loves it. mike


----------



## zekemypet (May 11, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Mothers Day Gift - The Box Is Done!*
> 
> Back at the end of January (yes, 2008), I said that I wanted to make, and I quote myself, "a simple dovetail box." I planned to make it for my wife. I don't think I really expected to finish it by Valentine's Day, but I did expect that it would be done for her birthday (mid-March). That came and went, leaving me with Mothers Day as my next target date. As I finally figured out how to do the lid, it all started coming together very quickly, and I found myself on Mothers Day Eve with a great chance at being done. So here we go:
> 
> ...


I'm proud of you Son !!! Much improved " dovetail " from your attempts in my workshop.


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## Dorje (Jun 17, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Mothers Day Gift - The Box Is Done!*
> 
> Back at the end of January (yes, 2008), I said that I wanted to make, and I quote myself, "a simple dovetail box." I planned to make it for my wife. I don't think I really expected to finish it by Valentine's Day, but I did expect that it would be done for her birthday (mid-March). That came and went, leaving me with Mothers Day as my next target date. As I finally figured out how to do the lid, it all started coming together very quickly, and I found myself on Mothers Day Eve with a great chance at being done. So here we go:
> 
> ...


It feels awfully strange for you to be at then end of this! Great work through and through! It's been fun to follow and I'm guessing we can expect to follow your next project?

With you in the photos, it really puts the size of you bench in perspective. Many of your photos are shot on the bench but I could never really judge the true scale - til now!


----------



## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Mothers Day Gift - The Box Is Done!*
> 
> Back at the end of January (yes, 2008), I said that I wanted to make, and I quote myself, "a simple dovetail box." I planned to make it for my wife. I don't think I really expected to finish it by Valentine's Day, but I did expect that it would be done for her birthday (mid-March). That came and went, leaving me with Mothers Day as my next target date. As I finally figured out how to do the lid, it all started coming together very quickly, and I found myself on Mothers Day Eve with a great chance at being done. So here we go:
> 
> ...


Well I still have maybe one or two more posts on this box - one (which I'll write soon) to get feedback on finishing, and then maybe one last one with final pics. And then I'll post it in Projects too.

I'm deeply indebted to the many Jocks who gave me advice and encouragement along the way!

As for my next project, I'm thinking that I want to follow a project plan to build something. I want to try my hand at something that doesn't involve so much problem solving from a design perspective, so I can focus my problem solving on basic things like joinery and craftsmanship!

I also wouldn't mind if my next project was bigger. In fact, it's a requirement. That little box felt like dollhouse furniture sometimes!


----------



## Blake (Oct 17, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Mothers Day Gift - The Box Is Done!*
> 
> Back at the end of January (yes, 2008), I said that I wanted to make, and I quote myself, "a simple dovetail box." I planned to make it for my wife. I don't think I really expected to finish it by Valentine's Day, but I did expect that it would be done for her birthday (mid-March). That came and went, leaving me with Mothers Day as my next target date. As I finally figured out how to do the lid, it all started coming together very quickly, and I found myself on Mothers Day Eve with a great chance at being done. So here we go:
> 
> ...


I love the way you go about your work. Great box, and you can really tell it was built with love and care. Congratulations on finishing it.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Mothers Day Gift - The Box Is Done!*
> 
> Back at the end of January (yes, 2008), I said that I wanted to make, and I quote myself, "a simple dovetail box." I planned to make it for my wife. I don't think I really expected to finish it by Valentine's Day, but I did expect that it would be done for her birthday (mid-March). That came and went, leaving me with Mothers Day as my next target date. As I finally figured out how to do the lid, it all started coming together very quickly, and I found myself on Mothers Day Eve with a great chance at being done. So here we go:
> 
> ...


It must feel good to get a project out! Good looking box, reminds me that I really have to start working on my dovetails. Thanks for the post.


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## Beginningwoodworker (May 5, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Mothers Day Gift - The Box Is Done!*
> 
> Back at the end of January (yes, 2008), I said that I wanted to make, and I quote myself, "a simple dovetail box." I planned to make it for my wife. I don't think I really expected to finish it by Valentine's Day, but I did expect that it would be done for her birthday (mid-March). That came and went, leaving me with Mothers Day as my next target date. As I finally figured out how to do the lid, it all started coming together very quickly, and I found myself on Mothers Day Eve with a great chance at being done. So here we go:
> 
> ...


Thats a nice gift.


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*Finishing the Box*

I have to admit, since I finished with the actual woodworking part of my wife's box, and presented it to her, I've barely thought about it. But the box isn't finished yet (literally), so I'd better press on to the end.

So here's my question for you: how would you finish the box? I was considering a simple 1:1:1 blend of boiled linseed oil, varnish and mineral spirits, as recommended by Marc Spagnuolo in one of his podcasts. That's the finish I used on my Good Friday Cross, although I don't know if I did it right. I rubbed it on with a soft cloth, 3 coats I think, lightly sanded in between. I think I read somewhere that you only need to sand prior to the last coat. Is that a good way to apply it?

Fellow Jock Thuan suggested shellac or even a French polish. To be honest, I didn't even know what a French polish was, and had to look it up (and it looks a bit complicated for a noob like me). From what I hear, shellac is nice and protective but is more difficult to refinish if needed.

So keeping in mind my limited experience and skills, how would you finish this box?


----------



## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Finishing the Box*
> 
> I have to admit, since I finished with the actual woodworking part of my wife's box, and presented it to her, I've barely thought about it. But the box isn't finished yet (literally), so I'd better press on to the end.
> 
> ...


The finish that Mark described is a relatively easy one to apply. It is designed to be wiped on and the excess is wiped off after setting a few minutes. If you want to do a french polish I would experiment some with scrap since this is a learned technique that does take some time to master. But shellac is an easy repair since it readily redissolves in alcohol or another coat of shellac.


----------



## teenagewoodworker (Jan 31, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Finishing the Box*
> 
> I have to admit, since I finished with the actual woodworking part of my wife's box, and presented it to her, I've barely thought about it. But the box isn't finished yet (literally), so I'd better press on to the end.
> 
> ...


I would go with a simple varnish, my favorite is Arm-r-seal by general finishes, and you could go before that with Seal a cell (also by general finishes) which the the "Tung Oil" that David marks always refers to in his shows. just put the seal a cell on and let it soak in, then when its dry go back with a few coats of Arm-r-seal. I like to wait until I have two coats of Arm-r-seal on until i start to sand. I usually sand with 600 grit because i only want to knock it down not remove the finish. then i buff with 000# steel wool after the final coat and i get a really nice finish that is smooth, protective, and looks really nice.


----------



## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Finishing the Box*
> 
> I have to admit, since I finished with the actual woodworking part of my wife's box, and presented it to her, I've barely thought about it. But the box isn't finished yet (literally), so I'd better press on to the end.
> 
> ...


I have a habit of using water based poly for most everything.


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## TheKiltedWoodworker (Dec 21, 2006)

offseid said:


> *Finishing the Box*
> 
> I have to admit, since I finished with the actual woodworking part of my wife's box, and presented it to her, I've barely thought about it. But the box isn't finished yet (literally), so I'd better press on to the end.
> 
> ...


Shellac is absolutely easy to renew/refresh if necessary. That is one of the great things about shellac - a new layer will easily go over an old one.

You don't need a whole lot of protection from moisture and such with a box, which is good because that is one of the drawbacks to shellac - poor water resistance.


----------



## Betsy (Sep 25, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Finishing the Box*
> 
> I have to admit, since I finished with the actual woodworking part of my wife's box, and presented it to her, I've barely thought about it. But the box isn't finished yet (literally), so I'd better press on to the end.
> 
> ...


I use Waterlox and then wax it to a high shine.


----------



## Karson (May 9, 2006)

offseid said:


> *Finishing the Box*
> 
> I have to admit, since I finished with the actual woodworking part of my wife's box, and presented it to her, I've barely thought about it. But the box isn't finished yet (literally), so I'd better press on to the end.
> 
> ...


I like shellac and use it all the time. It's easy but does dry fast if put on with the french polish techniques.


----------



## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Finishing the Box*
> 
> I have to admit, since I finished with the actual woodworking part of my wife's box, and presented it to her, I've barely thought about it. But the box isn't finished yet (literally), so I'd better press on to the end.
> 
> ...


Is shellac glossy? Or can you get a matte-type shellac?


----------



## marcb (May 5, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Finishing the Box*
> 
> I have to admit, since I finished with the actual woodworking part of my wife's box, and presented it to her, I've barely thought about it. But the box isn't finished yet (literally), so I'd better press on to the end.
> 
> ...


I Highly recommend picking up a copy of 
*Understanding Wood Finishing: How to Select and Apply the Right Finish* by Bob Flexner

This is, to me, the bible of finishing. If I have a question I flip through this and its in there. A bit technical at times, but only in the right places. Explains all the pros and cons for different finishes, plus a lot of the myths that float around.


----------



## naperville (Jan 28, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Finishing the Box*
> 
> I have to admit, since I finished with the actual woodworking part of my wife's box, and presented it to her, I've barely thought about it. But the box isn't finished yet (literally), so I'd better press on to the end.
> 
> ...


For a keepsake box, you can't go wrong with Tung oil… Take a look at my boxes and you be the judge. It is very easy to work with. 100% natural. No alcahol. and provides a durable finish that is easy on the hans and eyes…


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Finishing the Box*
> 
> I have to admit, since I finished with the actual woodworking part of my wife's box, and presented it to her, I've barely thought about it. But the box isn't finished yet (literally), so I'd better press on to the end.
> 
> ...


Appreciate the helpful comments! Sounds like a lot of good options out there. Decisions, decisions…


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*Is This a Finishing Problem?*

So I'm working on finishing my wife's Mothers Day box. I went with Marc's varnish/oil/mineral spirits blend (1 part each), but as I was applying the first coat I saw that there was something all solidified in my mixture, and it wouldn't blend with the rest. I went ahead and finished the coat and emailed Marc for his take. He thought that maybe the varnish had already cured, so I went and bought some new varnish. No problems on this batch.

So after applying a second coat, I really like the rich color that the wood is taking on. However, there are some spots on the surface that appear dull. I'm not sure what's causing it. And I don't know if I can fix it on the next coat or if I have to sand it down a little more to go back a coat or two and start over. Here's a pic of the top. I think you can see what I'm talking about, near the bottom left of the center panel (click to zoom):



Is this something that will fix itself as the finish cures? It was sitting for about 16-20 hours after the second coat before I took this picture.


----------



## EduWood (Jun 19, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Is This a Finishing Problem?*
> 
> So I'm working on finishing my wife's Mothers Day box. I went with Marc's varnish/oil/mineral spirits blend (1 part each), but as I was applying the first coat I saw that there was something all solidified in my mixture, and it wouldn't blend with the rest. I went ahead and finished the coat and emailed Marc for his take. He thought that maybe the varnish had already cured, so I went and bought some new varnish. No problems on this batch.
> 
> ...


It's hard to know for sure, but are you sanding between coats? I would suggest a light sanding or steel wool then assessing. I like the look ….. good luck.


----------



## Dorje (Jun 17, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Is This a Finishing Problem?*
> 
> So I'm working on finishing my wife's Mothers Day box. I went with Marc's varnish/oil/mineral spirits blend (1 part each), but as I was applying the first coat I saw that there was something all solidified in my mixture, and it wouldn't blend with the rest. I went ahead and finished the coat and emailed Marc for his take. He thought that maybe the varnish had already cured, so I went and bought some new varnish. No problems on this batch.
> 
> ...


Hard to tell - but just looks like a spot that will absorb more finish than the rest. May have more to do with the wood than the finish…


----------



## matter (Jan 30, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Is This a Finishing Problem?*
> 
> So I'm working on finishing my wife's Mothers Day box. I went with Marc's varnish/oil/mineral spirits blend (1 part each), but as I was applying the first coat I saw that there was something all solidified in my mixture, and it wouldn't blend with the rest. I went ahead and finished the coat and emailed Marc for his take. He thought that maybe the varnish had already cured, so I went and bought some new varnish. No problems on this batch.
> 
> ...


When I'm building finish, I always wool between coats with #0000.

This is especially true with rubbed finishes because as is stated above, some spots absorb more than others, the wool helps prevent too much finish from building in the less porous/more dense areas and making it look "plastic-ey"


----------



## tenontim (Feb 24, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Is This a Finishing Problem?*
> 
> So I'm working on finishing my wife's Mothers Day box. I went with Marc's varnish/oil/mineral spirits blend (1 part each), but as I was applying the first coat I saw that there was something all solidified in my mixture, and it wouldn't blend with the rest. I went ahead and finished the coat and emailed Marc for his take. He thought that maybe the varnish had already cured, so I went and bought some new varnish. No problems on this batch.
> 
> ...


Also remember that you're not leaving much on the piece. Put on a coat and wipe it off. Your rag should slide over the surface without catching or dragging. It usually takes about 3 -4 coats before you even start to get much of a gloss on the surface. You are using gloss finish varnish, right? If not, you will have the flatteners int the varnish to contend with.


----------



## teenagewoodworker (Jan 31, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Is This a Finishing Problem?*
> 
> So I'm working on finishing my wife's Mothers Day box. I went with Marc's varnish/oil/mineral spirits blend (1 part each), but as I was applying the first coat I saw that there was something all solidified in my mixture, and it wouldn't blend with the rest. I went ahead and finished the coat and emailed Marc for his take. He thought that maybe the varnish had already cured, so I went and bought some new varnish. No problems on this batch.
> 
> ...


it might have dried. I've had some Arm-r-Seal sitting around for like 6 months now and its starting to dry in the can. It might have dried if it wasn't sealed enough. i had that problem once with some varnish.


----------



## toddc (Mar 6, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Is This a Finishing Problem?*
> 
> So I'm working on finishing my wife's Mothers Day box. I went with Marc's varnish/oil/mineral spirits blend (1 part each), but as I was applying the first coat I saw that there was something all solidified in my mixture, and it wouldn't blend with the rest. I went ahead and finished the coat and emailed Marc for his take. He thought that maybe the varnish had already cured, so I went and bought some new varnish. No problems on this batch.
> 
> ...


I used some old finish once and I had a similar problem in my early days of experimenting with finishes. I don't know if it is exactly the same problem and I can't remember the exact finish either, but the issue was that it did not dry completely.

In general, all finishes seem to have their own specific problems if you use them after storing too long.


----------



## toddc (Mar 6, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Is This a Finishing Problem?*
> 
> So I'm working on finishing my wife's Mothers Day box. I went with Marc's varnish/oil/mineral spirits blend (1 part each), but as I was applying the first coat I saw that there was something all solidified in my mixture, and it wouldn't blend with the rest. I went ahead and finished the coat and emailed Marc for his take. He thought that maybe the varnish had already cured, so I went and bought some new varnish. No problems on this batch.
> 
> ...


I forgot to tell you, I made my recovery by flooding the surface with lacquer thinner. This effectively stripped the thin finish and I started over.


----------



## thewoodwhisperer (Dec 11, 2006)

offseid said:


> *Is This a Finishing Problem?*
> 
> So I'm working on finishing my wife's Mothers Day box. I went with Marc's varnish/oil/mineral spirits blend (1 part each), but as I was applying the first coat I saw that there was something all solidified in my mixture, and it wouldn't blend with the rest. I went ahead and finished the coat and emailed Marc for his take. He thought that maybe the varnish had already cured, so I went and bought some new varnish. No problems on this batch.
> 
> ...


Hey Eric. You know, I typed up a big long response to this the other day while I was eating lunch in a local cafe, and for some reason my reply isn't showing up! Damn you Paradise Cafe and your Roasted Tomato Soup!!!!

Anyway, here's the short version. Tenontim is right on. What you are seeing is the fact that the wood is still absorbing much of your finish. This usually happens with the first two coats and by the third, you really start building a film. Now if a film is your goal, I might make a couple suggestions. First, change the formula to straight wiping varnish. At this point, the oil isn't going to offer you very much. The wiping varnish on the other hand, will give you complete control over the look, feel, and amount of protection, one light coat at a time. A second suggestion would be to avoid gloss on that piece. Maybe its just me, but high gloss on woods with wide open pores can look….......funny. Its hard to explain. I guess its because with gloss, the eye expects to see a smooth uninterrupted surface. And with all those grain and pore pockets, the flow is distrupted. So I would highly recommend rubbing the finish back to a satin or at least semi-gloss (if that's the path you are headed on). You could also just switch to a satin formula for your final coat or two.

Well good luck my friend. Let's hope this reply shows up!

marc


----------



## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*Finishing Fun*

Well, after my last post I decided to back up a step. I sanded down a bit with 360 grit, and then without thinking I wiped the whole thing down with mineral spirits to make sure the sawdust was all gone. About halfway through doing that, I realized that I was also stripping off whatever finish I had already had on the box (or at least much of it)! Hah. Oh well, could be worse, right?

So I went with Marc recommendation to use a straight wiping varnish with a 50/50 mixture of varnish (I bought a new can that seals properly) and mineral spirits. I applied it nicely, I thought, and let it dry. And I have to say, so far I really like it! It's only one coat, but still - when the light hits the wood in certain ways, the grain looks really something.

But there's one thing that's bugging me. On just a couple spots, the wood is slightly lighter in color. I suppose this is from uneven sanding or uneven stripping of the finish? I'm not sure. I'd probably not worry too much about it except the problem areas are right in the front. Here's a pic - look along the bottom of the box lid and along the bottom of the box:



What do you think? Do I need to strip the whole thing again, or is this something that will even out over time? To be honest, I don't mind if that's what I have to do. I'm kind of having fun with this whole thing and I'm not in a huge rush. I just want to understand what I'm doing and how what I'm doing affects the end product.


----------



## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Finishing Fun*
> 
> Well, after my last post I decided to back up a step. I sanded down a bit with 360 grit, and then without thinking I wiped the whole thing down with mineral spirits to make sure the sawdust was all gone. About halfway through doing that, I realized that I was also stripping off whatever finish I had already had on the box (or at least much of it)! Hah. Oh well, could be worse, right?
> 
> ...


Eric,

I really don't see a problem with this. In any wood with a natural finish you are going to have some variation in color that cannot be eliminated. I thought at first that you might have some glue spots but I really don't see this here. If you want to try and even out the color you might want to apply a gel stain over the finish and selectively wipe it off to even out the wood tones. But, to tell you the truth, it looks fine to me simply as is. The wood will develop its own patina over time and should help with the color variation.


----------



## Beginningwoodworker (May 5, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Finishing Fun*
> 
> Well, after my last post I decided to back up a step. I sanded down a bit with 360 grit, and then without thinking I wiped the whole thing down with mineral spirits to make sure the sawdust was all gone. About halfway through doing that, I realized that I was also stripping off whatever finish I had already had on the box (or at least much of it)! Hah. Oh well, could be worse, right?
> 
> ...


nice job on the dovetail box.


----------



## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*End Grain Finishing Issue*

Okay, so I'm just about done. I've put the "last coat" on, and buffed it out with 00000 steel wool. Not too sure if I like it as is, or if I'll add one more coat. It's easy enough to do, so it's no big deal.

But there's one thing I'm unhappy about, and that's the exposed end grain on the pins and tails. The end grain looks all dried out and kinda nasty. Check it out (click to enlarge):



I'm not sure how it got this way. Maybe I didn't notice something happening on the several coats previous. Maybe I didn't sand the end grain enough before I started. I don't know. I'm not really sure how to fix it, except maybe to use a small brush or cotton swab to apply something (BLO? straight varnish?) directly to the end grain and only the end grain, until it looks normal. But would I need to do some micro-sanding first?

What do you think?


----------



## Jimthecarver (Jan 14, 2008)

offseid said:


> *End Grain Finishing Issue*
> 
> Okay, so I'm just about done. I've put the "last coat" on, and buffed it out with 00000 steel wool. Not too sure if I like it as is, or if I'll add one more coat. It's easy enough to do, so it's no big deal.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure but it looks to me as if the glue soaked into the end grain and a bit more sanding maybe needed to remove it….Good luck. 
Jim


----------



## Woodhacker (Mar 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *End Grain Finishing Issue*
> 
> Okay, so I'm just about done. I've put the "last coat" on, and buffed it out with 00000 steel wool. Not too sure if I like it as is, or if I'll add one more coat. It's easy enough to do, so it's no big deal.
> 
> ...


Keep at it Eric. In looking closely at your picture, I agree with the comments from Jack & Jim above. It also looks like the pins and tails are not cut quite deep enough…like they do not extend quite to the surface of the side to which they're joined.

I think this is adding to your difficulty. Normally you want the pins and tails to be a little proud 1/32 inch or 1/61 inch when gluing up. That way when you do your finish sanding they're on the same plane as the sides and this gives you a chance to sand off any glue, etc. It makes for a much cleaner joint.

As it looks in the picture, you'll need to sand the entire sides down to the depth of the pins in order for them to look "cleaner". That's a lot more work than if you leave the pins and tails a little longer than needed. You can see what I'm referring to in the last two pictures of this blog - tails/pins


----------



## Betsy (Sep 25, 2007)

offseid said:


> *End Grain Finishing Issue*
> 
> Okay, so I'm just about done. I've put the "last coat" on, and buffed it out with 00000 steel wool. Not too sure if I like it as is, or if I'll add one more coat. It's easy enough to do, so it's no big deal.
> 
> ...


Eric - seems to me someone mentioned putting some linseed oil on the end grain before finishing. As I recall the oiil provided a bit of sealing so that the final finish does not darken the end grain as much. I'll see if I can find the link. (They did a whole lot better job explaining it.)


----------



## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *End Grain Finishing Issue*
> 
> Okay, so I'm just about done. I've put the "last coat" on, and buffed it out with 00000 steel wool. Not too sure if I like it as is, or if I'll add one more coat. It's easy enough to do, so it's no big deal.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your feedback, fellow jocks. Woodhacker, I think you're right about the sanding. The areas on my box where the tails or pins end grain is flush with the rest, it looks just fine. The only problems are where the end grain is shy.

Betsy, sure would appreciate that link, whenever you can find it.

I think, though, that I don't want to do a terrible whole lot more work on this thing. My wife doesn't want me to, either. She sees this box - and rightly so - as a real educational process. End grain doesn't look perfect? No problem. Years down the road, I'll be able to look back at this project and think of all I've learned.

Of course, if there's a quick(ish) fix, I'm game to try that. I could q-tip some mineral spirits on one pin or tail's end grain, and try something to seal it first. Or maybe what Betsy's suggesting. I'll just see. But worst case scenario, I leave it as is. My wife loves it to death, despite its flaws.


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## ChicoWoodnut (Dec 15, 2007)

offseid said:


> *End Grain Finishing Issue*
> 
> Okay, so I'm just about done. I've put the "last coat" on, and buffed it out with 00000 steel wool. Not too sure if I like it as is, or if I'll add one more coat. It's easy enough to do, so it's no big deal.
> 
> ...


You sir are a lucky man.


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*How I Fixed the End Grain*

From all the feedback I got on my end grain finishing problem, Kaleo had the biggest word (oxidization) so I think he's right. :^) However, I couldn't bring myself to apply his solution, which was to sand the box down and then to put a finer grit on the end grain. Actually, my wife instantly vetoed any solution which involved removing the finish I already had on it. She loves the box, and isn't concerned about the flaws.

But I had to do something. So here's what I did. First, the before picture:



First, I swabbed on some mineral spirits with a q-tip and then "scrubbed" it with the other end. I don't know how effective this was at removing the varnish. By the way, I also did this on the tail on the top.



Then I ripped some very narrow strips of sandpaper from 60 or 80 grit all the way up to 360. I numbered them so I wouldn't screw up the order.



After sanding all the way up to 360, here's what it looked like. You can see that the one above it, to which I had applied mineral spirits (but didn't sand), doesn't look considerably better, if at all.



Then, using the q-tip, I applied some straight BLO to the center one, the one above it, and also one test tail on the left middle (which hadn't been sanded nor stripped with mineral spirits).



It turned out that all three tails looked the same. It didn't matter whether it had been sanded, stripped or anything. So I promptly q-tipped BLO on all of the end grain. And here's how it turned out:



All in all, I'm very pleased with the results. Sure, it's not immaculate. But the color is much more uniform, and I think Amy will be very pleased. My last resort was going to be to use a black magic marker. Why not?

So now all that is left is to apply a single coat of BLO to the inside of the box. During my initial applications to the outside, I flooded it with my oil/varnish mixture to the extent that you can see it some on the inside. So a single coat of BLO on the inside should regulate the color of the wood. Should.

P.S. Amy does like the smell of BLO - I checked that before deciding what to do about the inside.


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## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

offseid said:


> *How I Fixed the End Grain*
> 
> From all the feedback I got on my end grain finishing problem, Kaleo had the biggest word (oxidization) so I think he's right. :^) However, I couldn't bring myself to apply his solution, which was to sand the box down and then to put a finer grit on the end grain. Actually, my wife instantly vetoed any solution which involved removing the finish I already had on it. She loves the box, and isn't concerned about the flaws.
> 
> ...


Eric,

This is a nice project and, if Amy is happy with the box, then that is really all that is important. But you actually did do a really nice job on it and the finish looks fine to me.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

offseid said:


> *How I Fixed the End Grain*
> 
> From all the feedback I got on my end grain finishing problem, Kaleo had the biggest word (oxidization) so I think he's right. :^) However, I couldn't bring myself to apply his solution, which was to sand the box down and then to put a finer grit on the end grain. Actually, my wife instantly vetoed any solution which involved removing the finish I already had on it. She loves the box, and isn't concerned about the flaws.
> 
> ...


Hey Eric, 
it does look like a much nicer tone to the end grain. I think that the sanding (correct me if I'm wrong) seemed to have minimized the open pores in the end grain- either sanded them flatter, or sealed them with fine dust, to give them a more solid look.

It's important to keep the lady happy - but it's best to have everyone happy.

cheers


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *How I Fixed the End Grain*
> 
> From all the feedback I got on my end grain finishing problem, Kaleo had the biggest word (oxidization) so I think he's right. :^) However, I couldn't bring myself to apply his solution, which was to sand the box down and then to put a finer grit on the end grain. Actually, my wife instantly vetoed any solution which involved removing the finish I already had on it. She loves the box, and isn't concerned about the flaws.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Scott! And PurpLev, yes, you're right. The sanding does seem to have closed up some of the pores and given the end grain a smoother look. It's spotty though, but I can live with that (on THIS project). On my next one like this I think I'll be a bit more careful along the way.


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## SteveKorz (Mar 25, 2008)

offseid said:


> *How I Fixed the End Grain*
> 
> From all the feedback I got on my end grain finishing problem, Kaleo had the biggest word (oxidization) so I think he's right. :^) However, I couldn't bring myself to apply his solution, which was to sand the box down and then to put a finer grit on the end grain. Actually, my wife instantly vetoed any solution which involved removing the finish I already had on it. She loves the box, and isn't concerned about the flaws.
> 
> ...


That looks terrific! You did a great job on the fix, it looks very consistent…


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## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

offseid said:


> *How I Fixed the End Grain*
> 
> From all the feedback I got on my end grain finishing problem, Kaleo had the biggest word (oxidization) so I think he's right. :^) However, I couldn't bring myself to apply his solution, which was to sand the box down and then to put a finer grit on the end grain. Actually, my wife instantly vetoed any solution which involved removing the finish I already had on it. She loves the box, and isn't concerned about the flaws.
> 
> ...


Nice Job!

Please don't overlook the the visual effects of the contrasts that can occur with the dark end grain. When the end grain stays dark, it can really draw your attention to the dovetail. And after all, you want to "show off" your abilities to make hand cut dovetails.

Lew


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## sIKE (Feb 14, 2008)

offseid said:


> *How I Fixed the End Grain*
> 
> From all the feedback I got on my end grain finishing problem, Kaleo had the biggest word (oxidization) so I think he's right. :^) However, I couldn't bring myself to apply his solution, which was to sand the box down and then to put a finer grit on the end grain. Actually, my wife instantly vetoed any solution which involved removing the finish I already had on it. She loves the box, and isn't concerned about the flaws.
> 
> ...


Good work, the finish looks a lot more even now. Chalk it up as a lesson learned.


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## Betsy (Sep 25, 2007)

offseid said:


> *How I Fixed the End Grain*
> 
> From all the feedback I got on my end grain finishing problem, Kaleo had the biggest word (oxidization) so I think he's right. :^) However, I couldn't bring myself to apply his solution, which was to sand the box down and then to put a finer grit on the end grain. Actually, my wife instantly vetoed any solution which involved removing the finish I already had on it. She loves the box, and isn't concerned about the flaws.
> 
> ...


Nice solution Eric.


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

*Reflections and Lessons Learned*

In my very first post in this series, I said that I wanted to make something before building my workbench, and I said (here comes a direct quote), "What better project for my beginner skills than a simple dovetail box?" Yes. I said the words "simple", "box" and "beginner" in the same sentence. How little I knew. So here are some reflections on my 6-month journey into box making, and some lessons learned:


*Find something you do well, and build your confidence off of that.* Once I bought my ryoba saw, my sawing skills improved tremendously. I cut one of my dovetails with it to break it in, and liked it right away. I took a stab at sawing veneer by hand, and nailed it. I got more and more confident in that one area of my woodworking, and it made me more confident overall, even in other areas where I'm not yet very proficient.
*Start with a plan.* I had a vague idea of what I wanted, but you really need something a little more concrete than "four walls, a top and a bottom." That's pretty much all I had. If I had actually sketched out a real plan with ideas on how I was going to join, say, the bottom to the walls, I would have been much better prepared for what was to come.
*Start with something big.* I had wondered aloud when starting this project if doing dovetails with 1/4" thick wood would be too tough for a beginner. Turned out that the dovetails were easy compared with all the other complexities in the project - many of which were enhanced because of the small size of the box. As some of you saw, I had to make a chisel out of an allen wrench because my 1/4" chisel was too big for some of the things I needed to do. I felt like I was making dollhouse furniture sometimes. It's no wonder my very next project was a step stool with really big dovetails and "regular"-sized joints.
*Listen to feedback.* As I wrote this post, I re-read all of my entries, and the comments that followed each one. It's really neat to see things that I ended up doing in this project because of suggestions from my fellow Jocks. In a way, this box was a community project!
*Don't sweat it.* As Russel wisely commented, "Flaws are merely an expression of character; a reflection of the path to completion. They are not necessarily a bad thing, and in this case they are an example of tenacity and acquired experience." Amen.

Thanks again, fellow Jocks, for all of your encouragement as I brought this project through its various stages to completion. While I have no desire (at the present time) to build another box this small, I do hope to build more boxes in the future. I'm sure that many of the lessons I learned here will make it a much smoother operation.


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## ChicoWoodnut (Dec 15, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Reflections and Lessons Learned*
> 
> In my very first post in this series, I said that I wanted to make something before building my workbench, and I said (here comes a direct quote), "What better project for my beginner skills than a simple dovetail box?" Yes. I said the words "simple", "box" and "beginner" in the same sentence. How little I knew. So here are some reflections on my 6-month journey into box making, and some lessons learned:
> 
> ...


Nice reflection Eric,

Like every project, you need a wrap up. What do you have up your sleeve? Something enjoyable for you but intended someone else by any chance?


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Reflections and Lessons Learned*
> 
> In my very first post in this series, I said that I wanted to make something before building my workbench, and I said (here comes a direct quote), "What better project for my beginner skills than a simple dovetail box?" Yes. I said the words "simple", "box" and "beginner" in the same sentence. How little I knew. So here are some reflections on my 6-month journey into box making, and some lessons learned:
> 
> ...


Nothing big. We're moving in a month, so I don't really have time to build much. But I do have a reverse engineering project to do for a buddy. He's got a couch support frame (wood) but the other one was missing. I'll try to build him a matching one. This is the guy who got my wood for the step stool - and found this couch on the side of the road as well!

So more on that as I give it a go. Nothing fancy - just a few mortise and tenons I think.


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## ChicoWoodnut (Dec 15, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Reflections and Lessons Learned*
> 
> In my very first post in this series, I said that I wanted to make something before building my workbench, and I said (here comes a direct quote), "What better project for my beginner skills than a simple dovetail box?" Yes. I said the words "simple", "box" and "beginner" in the same sentence. How little I knew. So here are some reflections on my 6-month journey into box making, and some lessons learned:
> 
> ...


I'm confident that the side you repair will last longer than the other side LOL


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## jcees (Dec 31, 2007)

offseid said:


> *Reflections and Lessons Learned*
> 
> In my very first post in this series, I said that I wanted to make something before building my workbench, and I said (here comes a direct quote), "What better project for my beginner skills than a simple dovetail box?" Yes. I said the words "simple", "box" and "beginner" in the same sentence. How little I knew. So here are some reflections on my 6-month journey into box making, and some lessons learned:
> 
> ...


Yepper, that about sums it up. We all learn by* DOING!*

always,
J.C.


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## ryno101 (May 14, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Reflections and Lessons Learned*
> 
> In my very first post in this series, I said that I wanted to make something before building my workbench, and I said (here comes a direct quote), "What better project for my beginner skills than a simple dovetail box?" Yes. I said the words "simple", "box" and "beginner" in the same sentence. How little I knew. So here are some reflections on my 6-month journey into box making, and some lessons learned:
> 
> ...


Eric,

Having just come across this, I had to go back and read it all… thank you for putting this together, for Noobs like us, it's nice to be able to learn from each other, and I've definitely learned from this blog series!

Can't wait to see what you come out with next!


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## offseid (Jan 16, 2008)

offseid said:


> *Reflections and Lessons Learned*
> 
> In my very first post in this series, I said that I wanted to make something before building my workbench, and I said (here comes a direct quote), "What better project for my beginner skills than a simple dovetail box?" Yes. I said the words "simple", "box" and "beginner" in the same sentence. How little I knew. So here are some reflections on my 6-month journey into box making, and some lessons learned:
> 
> ...


Great, glad to help! We're all in this together…


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