# dowel jig or biscuit joiner?



## dmoney (Dec 20, 2009)

I'm going to be making some face frames for cabinets and joining some wood for a table top. I would like to join the wood with biscuits or dowels.

I've been looking at getting either the porter cable 557 biscuit joiner or this rockler doweling jig.

is the biscuit joiner going to be quicker & easier? or is the doweling jig a better bang for the buck?
what would you guys recommend?


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## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

I have and use both the doweling jig and a biscuit joiner.

I think the dowels make a stronger joint but there are time when they are just too difficult to get lined up and/or drilled using the doweling jig. The biscuit joiner is a little more forgiving and easier to use on larger pieces.

Just my 2¢

Lew


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## FirehouseWoodworking (Jun 9, 2009)

I second what Lew has posted.

There are pros and cons to both, depending upon the situation. Though it might not be faster, dowelling the face frame joints is stronger. But if you're joining mitered sides to s box and such, the biscuits will reinforce the joint and keep it from slipping while the glue is drying.

The Rockler jig is a good one. I own two Stanley jigs (antiques) that I bought at auctions and wouldn't trade them for any jig.


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## CryptKeeper (Apr 28, 2010)

I second lew's comment with an additional choice. If the joint doesn't require extra strength a biscuit jointer is the way to go but if you need to re-enforce the joint the dowel is a better choice but can be a pain. Now for a third choice for non-stressed joints I found the pocket hole screws are quick and easy to use.


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## ND2ELK (Jan 25, 2008)

I used the dowel jig for many years on face frames. Since I got a Kreg jig, I use it on all my face frames now. The only advantage is you do not need to wait for the glue to dry before you remove the clamps. I still glue the joints besides using the screws. I feel the dowel joint on a face frame is stonger than a biscuit joint.

Tom


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## Viking (Aug 26, 2009)

Derek;

I agree with Ron. You might consider pocket hole joints for the face frames. We got the Kreg Master System a couple of years ago and that's all we use for face frames. Way faster than dowels or biscuits and glue is very optional, so no waiting time. The screws are the clamps. We have not gotten our PC biscuit joiner out for over a year.

This would also be excellent for edge gluing boards for a table top.

Think that Kreg has some videos on their web site.

Good Luck!


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## SnowyRiver (Nov 14, 2008)

If I were going to use either biscuits or dowels, I would choose biscuits simply because its easier. I have a biscuit jointer, but I have started using the Kreg pocket hole jig for face frames and love it.


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## dmoney (Dec 20, 2009)

might be a newbie question but if you use pocket screws for making the face frames, how would you recommend attaching the face frames to the box?

i remember seeing norm do it with biscuits.


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## Viking (Aug 26, 2009)

Derek

You can use pocket hole screws for that also and Kreg sell plugs,of various wood types, to fill the holes after you assemble if they are in view.

Yoiu might Google "kreg pocket hole video" and will find loads of stuff there. There are a bunch just on Youtube alone.

Rick


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## jim1953 (Nov 18, 2007)

I use biscuits and I have Good Luck With Them


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## SnowyRiver (Nov 14, 2008)

Derek,

You can use biscuits to attached the face frame, or another method would be to use brads and glue, or even just glue will work. I usually build the face frame using pocket hole screws, then I use glue and brads to hold the face frame to the cabinet. I use brads simply becaue the brads hold it in place until the glue dries. You could easliy just use glue only. Its not going anywhere.


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## CryptKeeper (Apr 28, 2010)

Derek,
You can use the pocket screws to attach the face frame - with a small caveat. It depends on how you are going to finish the inside of the cabinet and if the pocket will be visible. If the inside of the cabinet is going to be painted or you won't see the pocket it is a non-issue you can get plugs to match just about any wood. If the area is visible I would use biscuits to attach the face frame to the carcass. Having said that , the last set of closet organizers I built were painted and I used glue and the Kreg pocket screws exclusively.

Edit: Plugs can also be made from hardwood dowels to match when needed.


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## dmoney (Dec 20, 2009)

thanks for all the help! i have used pocket screws but haven't been satisfied. i have a kit from wolfcraft but my problem has been that the lip on the screwhead sticks out just a bit higher than the surface of the wood. I really want it to be perfectly smooth and able to be hidden with the plugs.

i may pick up a kreg jig and see if I have better luck with it. it seems to be the big name brand in pocket screws.


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## Viking (Aug 26, 2009)

Derek;

Many get themselves in trouble with pocket joints in not prepping components prior to assembly. Since the screws are the clamps, if one of the faces you are preparing to join is not square the screw will pull the joint together out of square by same amount.

The Wolfcraft uses similar principals to the Kreg.

Rick


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## dmoney (Dec 20, 2009)

rick- the joint itself is always fine and square, the problem is the hole that is drilled for the pocket screw.

when i drive in the the screw, just a tiny bit of the lip is always above the surface of the wood so if you try to sand it or run your finger across it you hit that little bit of the panhead lip of the screw. (if that makes any sense) 

i have the problem with the wolfcraft ones that came with it and some kreg ones that i've tried later.


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## Viking (Aug 26, 2009)

Derek;

We have the Kreg Master Kit and I just checked some pocket screws I did today and they are all well below the surface. Check the drill guide to make sure it is set to material thickness you are using and also check the depth stop on the drill bit for same. We mounted the jig to a large piece of MDF, for stability and portability. Used the Kreg jig and pocket screws to install some 23 3/4" x 33 1/2" plywood shelves today into a miter saw station we are building. We have used the Kreg on material as thin as 1/2" thick with great results.


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## traupmann (Oct 8, 2010)

Derek, as I read your postings, I see a couple of issues. First, the 2 parts being mated must be aligned and clamped prior to drilling, and prior to screwing. The next thing is that if the head of the screw is protruding from the surface of the material, the setting for the drill needs to be slightly deeper. There are several screws available for this duty also, the pan head take the least room depth-wise, the square headed screw needs to be 3/32 deeper to clear properly. 
As has been suggested, take a few dry-runs with some scrap and adjust the depth. Remember, the face lip is due to separation of the leg and the base prior to screwing. good luck


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## dmoney (Dec 20, 2009)




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## dmoney (Dec 20, 2009)

theres a few pics of what I'm talking about.
I really hope it's the jig, not me 
and thanks for all the help!


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

> i remember seeing norm do it with biscuits.

Derek,

Norm's most recent method for face frames begins with cutting a loooooog kerf down the front edge of the carcase parts. Then cut individual biscuit slots on the frame. The kerf on the carcass is sufficient and allows some linear variance over cutting biscuit slots on both pieces. I think I'll try that method when the time comes for me. YMMV.

From pic #1, it looks like you're just not drilling deep enough. Adjust your stop collar & try again.

>From Lew
>I think the dowels make a stronger joint but there are time when they are just too difficult to get lined up

Funny coincidence. I recently watched a Fe$tool demo of their Domino Jointer. They put the center dowel(domino) in tight. The rest, they leave some lateral slop for just the reason you stated. I think they even have an adjustment on the tool to accomodate that feature. Yes, each has their own merits. 

Rance


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## Lenny101 (Dec 26, 2008)

Derek, looks like you need to move the stop on your drillbit ( up towards the drill) that will recess the screw head, you might take everyones advice and invest in the kreg system.


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## dmoney (Dec 20, 2009)

thanks I moved the stop collar up on the drillbit and that fixed it! thanks you all!


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## dmoney (Dec 20, 2009)

i bought this doweling jig today, used it on a bookcase project, did 16 dowels and it works pretty good. still may get that biscuit joiner sometime because I think it would have been faster. but i'm pretty happy that the doweling jig worked great the first time I used it. (in other words everything lined up!)


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## Viking (Aug 26, 2009)

All problems solved!

Good Luck and hope you share your book case project with us as it comes together..


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## Beginningwoodworker (May 5, 2008)

I use a kreg jig for face frames.


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

Derek: I started with the same dowel jig you have and had good luck with it. No problems centering etc. Next I went to a bisquit cutter. SoSo. Then I went to Kreg and never looked back! They all work, it's just a matter of preference.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

All pocket screws are not equal. Possibly the jigs are not all well-designed.

I've had the most predictable results with the KREG pocket hole screws. I've
bought other ones that looked pretty similar but small variants in the screw
geometry could cause it to over-drive and poke through the wood when driven,
or, as you've encountered, leave the pan-head sticking up.

When the pan is sitting proud, move the stop collar on the pocket hole drill
bit towards the chuck. I'd guess about 1/8" for the amount of protruberance
you're seeing with your screws.


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## rando1 (May 24, 2010)

Hey the more practice and experience you get on projects, you will find what works best for you. 
I have been using biscuits for face frame to the carcasses. However, where possible where I know will be hidden, I will use Kreg pockets for faces.
I also use glue with both, just helps me feel better knowing I also glued. 
You are right on track, keep building…and you will find what works for you.


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## woody57 (Jan 6, 2009)

I use pocket screws for face frames and attaching the frame to the case if the screws don't show. If they will show I used biscuits to attach the frame to the case. For fixed shelves in cabinets and bookcases I cut a 1/4" deep dado in the side panel (that is 3/4" thick) then the shelf is glued and screwed in with 1" pocket screws.


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## juniorjock (Feb 3, 2008)

Loren is right. Kreg doesn't have the market cornered on pocket hole screws. And, like he said, they are all different. Some brands are less expensive than Kreg but you may not get as good of results with them. The best source for screws that I've found is www.McFeelys.com

Their prices are slightly higher than other places, but have a lot more to choose from.

- JJ


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