# Uneven Height After Jointing Face



## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

I have a Jointer issue going on and I am convinced at this point that it's operator error.

I began with a raw piece of 10L' x 6"W x 3-1/4" Poplar that appeared o be as straight as any lumber I've seen. Prior to running the face through I took a level a level exceeding the length of the Tables by 2" each end and the tables were perfectly dead flat. I cut off a 4' section and ran it through the Jointer starting at 1/32" and working up to 1/16".

When finished the dimensions were 4'L x 6"W x 2-7/16 at one end and 4'L x 6"W x 13/16" at the other. Setting the Infeed table back to match the Outfeed and ensuring they're aligned I again confirmed with the level. The stock did not rock and was flat on the tables.

I've watched a mountain of videos on facing stock on a Jointer so I'm really at a loss as to what is going on here. Need help please!

Thank you!

Lyman


----------



## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

If the knives are higher on one side lets say the operator side you will get a taper across the width of the board.
When the outfeed table is slightly too high at the top dead center of the cutting circle. A board will taper along its length.
Your post reads like the outfeed table is too high.
Good Luck


----------



## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

A lot of jointer issues are operator errors, but in this case I think its the set up.

The beds should be parallel, not even (perhaps that's what you meant).

The outfeed should be level with the knife TDC. With knives, one way to check it either using a dial indicator or a rule on edge when the knife just contacts the ruler. Once that's set you never touch it. (Actually I found setting mine about 3 thou higher gives better results, but that may not apply to you).

Helical is a little trickier. I've found trial and error works best for me. Lower the outfeed below the TDC of knives, then run a perfectly flat 3' long board about 1/2 way through, keeping down pressure only on the infeed & stop about 1/2 way through. Raise the outfeed until the gap disappears and you'll be very close. This can also be used for knives.


----------



## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> If the knives are higher on one side lets say the operator side you will get a taper across the width of the board.
> When the outfeed table is slightly too high at the top dead center of the cutting circle. A board will taper along its length.
> Your post reads like the outfeed table is too high.
> Good Luck
> ...


Thanks Aj. I thought of that. The Outfeed table is set such that the knives will just barely brush a Square. If I go any lower on the Outfeed table it will make full contact with the knives.

That said, should I try it anyway?

Thanks,

Lyman


----------



## stripit (Oct 21, 2012)

Hi. You are taking to many passes. A jointer will taper your piece slightly with each pass. You just need run the piece to flaten it, then use a planer to get the right thickness.


----------



## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

If you don't have a dial indicator to check/set each blade for height and level across the width of the outfeed table you will have lots of attempts that will fall short of perfection. After suggested here I made one with a 1×2x3 block and a HF dial gauge, perfect on the fist adjustment. When I tried the drag the ruler bit I was way off. Once that is done the only other thing to adjust is he relationship of the lower table to the upper table (coplanar)


----------



## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> Hi. You are taking to many passes. A jointer will taper your piece slightly with each pass. You just need run the piece to flaten it, then use a planer to get the right thickness.
> 
> - stripit


Thanks Stripit. Makes sense but if you have a board that is seriously cupped you're going to have to make many passes. How does what you're saying factor into that scenario?

Best,

Lyman


----------



## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> If you don t have a dial indicator to check/set each blade for height and level across the width of the outfeed table you will have lots of attempts that will fall short of perfection. After suggested here I made one with a 1×2x3 block and a HF dial gauge, perfect on the fist adjustment. When I tried the drag the ruler bit I was way off. Once that is done the only other thing to adjust is he relationship of the lower table to the upper table (coplanar)
> 
> - controlfreak


Thanks. No, I do not have a dial indicator and don't know of anyone using one to check the blade height including a best friend building $7,000 doors and $2,500 Windows with a six month backlog on both. His Jointer is 4,300 lbs, built in 1948! He said he has a dial indicator dusting away that is free for the taking so I'll follow your suggestion which is very much appreciated.

That said, his immediate thought was if the blades were at different heights the amount of tapering would vary along the length of the board. This is a consistent tapering getting smaller the further you go down the stock. Frustrating!

Thanks for the tip on the dial indicator, will give it a shot.

Best,
Lyman


----------



## Kudzupatch (Feb 3, 2015)

While a dial indicator probably isn't really needed on the joiner but it sure is great for trouble shooting and getting blade heights right the first time. Takes a lot of guess work out of it.

I use mine on the planner too but that is the only places I have ever seen it to be advantageous or necessary.

I never use a dial indicator for setting the table saw fence or squaring the blades to the miter slots. That level of accuracy it just not needed. I find a sliding square works very well.


----------



## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> While a dial indicator probably isn t really needed on the joiner but it sure is great for trouble shooting and getting blade heights right the first time. Takes a lot of guess work out of it.
> 
> I use mine on the planner too but that is the only places I have ever seen it to be advantageous or necessary.
> 
> ...


Thanks, agree 100%. Measuring the Planar knives must have been fun, no? ;-)

Best,

Lyman


----------



## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

> Hi. You are taking to many passes. A jointer will taper your piece slightly with each pass. You just need run the piece to flaten it, then use a planer to get the right thickness.
> 
> - stripit
> 
> ...


I am thinking the a hand jointer or a table saw sled is needed to reduce/eliminate a bad cup or bow for that matter in a board depending on weather on an edge or face. I had some hand surfaced panels from a discarded furniture piece that are wider than my 6" jointer so I decided to suck it up and get the planes out for a spin. Getting past the learning curve and getting a great workout too.


----------



## Jared_S (Jul 6, 2018)

Are those numbers correct

2&7/16 (2.4375) tapering to 13/16 (.8125)? Or should that be 2&13/16 (2.8125)

A .375" taper is very different than a 1.625" taper over 4'

A dial indicator and a caliper are likely my most frequently used tools in my shop.

Also curious what 4300lb jointer your friends has.


----------



## stripit (Oct 21, 2012)

Hi. If your board is cupped that much, I'd cut n half an use it for another project.


----------



## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

To set the outfeed table height. First lower it below the infeed joint a fairly straight board on edge just until 4or 5 inches hangs over the outfeed.
Raise the outfeed back up until it barely touches the bottom. Of board on edge
This is the top center height of the cutting circle and the method I use.
There's plenty of videos for more clarity. Search setting jointer outfeed table 
Good Luck


----------



## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

https://www.newwoodworker.com/jntrprobfxs.html

This is a visual of what Aj said.


----------



## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

> To set the outfeed table height. First lower it below the infeed joint a fairly straight board on edge just until 4or 5 inches hangs over the outfeed.
> Raise the outfeed back up until it barely touches the bottom. Of board on edge
> This is the top center height of the cutting circle and the method I use.
> There's plenty of videos for more clarity. Search setting jointer outfeed table
> ...


That's basically what I said…....but he ignored me LOL.


----------



## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

I can only adjust my infeed table, I must not have a "fancy" jointer. I guess you lose a few features in the $200 range. If I can get better with hand planes I may just get rid of that space hog.


----------



## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

I am a little confused. Are you saying that you used a jointer to go from 3-1/4" thick to 2-7/16" (almost ~3/4") ? Normally the process is to get one side flat and then use the planer to get uniform thickness. If you tried to get uniform thickness just using the jointer by flattening both sides , that is very tough to do. With enough passes to take 1/2-3/4" off, it is nearly impossible.


----------



## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

> I can only adjust my infeed table, I must not have a "fancy" jointer. I guess you lose a few features in the $200 range. If I can get better with hand planes I may just get rid of that space hog.
> 
> - controlfreak


Do you have a craftsman with the fixed outfeed. I'm only asking because I had one for years before the internet shows me the errors of my way. 
I used it until the knives flew and almost cut my nose off.
I hate those ones.


----------



## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> Are those numbers correct
> 
> 2&7/16 (2.4375) tapering to 13/16 (.8125)? Or should that be 2&13/16 (2.8125)
> 
> ...


Hi! Yes. Those numbers are correct. I will ask him the Make & Model of that monster.

Best,

Lyman


----------



## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> Hi. If your board is cupped that much, I d cut n half an use it for another project.
> 
> - stripit


Good point, thanks!

Lyman


----------



## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

If the difference is only a matter of the thickness of the ends, there may be nothing wrong, as long as the piece is flat.

Jointers are known for not producing parallel pieces, which is why many of us have both a jointer and a planer.

Then there is that planers do not joint, absent a sled built for that purpose. That is why we hit the jointer, then run through the planer. That way, both sides will be parallel to each other.


----------



## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> I can only adjust my infeed table, I must not have a "fancy" jointer. I guess you lose a few features in the $200 range. If I can get better with hand planes I may just get rid of that space hog.
> 
> - controlfreak
> 
> ...


Hi. No Sir. A Ridgid a few months old.
Thanks!
Lyman


----------



## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Jointer is to make ONE face, then ONE edge flat. After that, the planer and table saw for the other two faces. A jointer is never to make opposite edges square.


----------



## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

> I can only adjust my infeed table, I must not have a "fancy" jointer. I guess you lose a few features in the $200 range. If I can get better with hand planes I may just get rid of that space hog.
> 
> - controlfreak
> 
> ...


You got it! It is an old Craftsman 6" that looks more like a benchtop size but put on a steel frame. No dust collection whatsoever. I do have it dialed in about as good as I am going to get. If I had room I may upgrade but for now I have been playing mostly with hand tools anyway.


----------



## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> If the difference is only a matter of the thickness of the ends, there may be nothing wrong, as long as the piece is flat.
> 
> Jointers are known for not producing parallel pieces, which is why many of us have both a jointer and a planer.
> 
> ...


Thanks Kelly. I've got both but to lose that much stock seems like a major waste. I was shooting for a 
1" thickness but hit that long before I reached the Planar.

As was stated I spent too much time on the Jonter, completely unaware that a) the while it would taper. Of all the videos I watched this tapering effect was never mentioned. Now I know.

Thank you!
Lyman


----------



## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> To set the outfeed table height. First lower it below the infeed joint a fairly straight board on edge just until 4or 5 inches hangs over the outfeed.
> Raise the outfeed back up until it barely touches the bottom. Of board on edge
> This is the top center height of the cutting circle and the method I use.
> There's plenty of videos for more clarity. Search setting jointer outfeed table
> ...


Thanks again, Aj!
Lyman


----------



## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> https://www.newwoodworker.com/jntrprobfxs.html
> 
> This is a visual of what Aj said.
> 
> ...


Thanks AlaskaGuy for taking the time to find that! Just got to work but will view tonight when home.

Best,
Lyman


----------



## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> I am a little confused. Are you saying that you used a jointer to go from 3-1/4" thick to 2-7/16" (almost ~3/4") ? Normally the process is to get one side flat and then use the planer to get uniform thickness. If you tried to get uniform thickness just using the jointer by flattening both sides , that is very tough to do. With enough passes to take 1/2-3/4" off, it is nearly impossible.
> 
> - Lazyman


Yes. Blew my mind as well. I spent too much time at the Jointer when I simply should have gotten it flat and gone to the Planar for the thickness. Also. I knew nothing of the tapering effect. SURE DO NOW!

Thanks Lazyman!

Lyman


----------



## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> Jointer is to make ONE face, then ONE edge flat. After that, the planer and table saw for the other two faces. A jointer is never to make opposite edges square.
> 
> - tvrgeek


Correct, thanks!

Lyman


----------



## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> To set the outfeed table height. First lower it below the infeed joint a fairly straight board on edge just until 4or 5 inches hangs over the outfeed.
> Raise the outfeed back up until it barely touches the bottom. Of board on edge
> This is the top center height of the cutting circle and the method I use.
> There's plenty of videos for more clarity. Search setting jointer outfeed table
> ...


Hi Robert,
I apologize, I would never intentionally ignore anyone. I looked but am not seeing you post! Thank you for taking the time to reply. I'll make another sweep.

Best

Lyman


----------



## LGLDSR73 (Jul 24, 2013)

> https://www.newwoodworker.com/jntrprobfxs.html
> 
> This is a visual of what Aj said.
> 
> ...


The video put that into perfect perspective. Thank you both!

Lyman


----------

