# Anything against using PVC trims to make runners for table saw sleds?



## MiniMe (Apr 5, 2018)

Hi guy

I did some work over the weekend to add trims to my patio door and being outside I had to use PVC trims
Very easy to rip cut with the table saw.
While I was trying to select the right size for my project I realized that these could be easily used to make runners for table saw cross cut sleds.

I have not tried yet, I already spent some money on two pairs at LeeValley but for the same mine you can get like 2 or 4 trims that could be cut and sized to fit the slot of your table saw.

What is wrong with this plan?


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## Axis39 (Jul 3, 2019)

They do not wear well… Low melting point, and not particularly dense means they will not last long at all. Even the hard candy coating on the outside of some brands will not last too long.


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## WhyMe (Feb 15, 2014)

Have to disagree. I have two sleds that have pvc guide runners cut from pvc trim board and they work just fine. The sleds have been in use for 5 years and I haven't had any wear issues.


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## MiniMe (Apr 5, 2018)

> Have to disagree. I have two sleds that have pvc guide runners cut from pvc trim board and they work just fine. The sleds have been in use for 5 years and I haven t had any wear issues.
> 
> - WhyMe


Did you have to trim the depth? I am still learning these things and I am not clear whether the runners have to be jus just slightly less deep than the slots they run in. To avoid friction I think they have to be less deep, I remember seeing 3/4" and less as height dimension


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## WhyMe (Feb 15, 2014)

They need to thinner than the depth of the slot so not to add drag.


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## ocean (Feb 13, 2016)

I have used UHMW plastic runners (one brand name is Star Board) for a number of years. Cuts like butter and is impervious to just about any chemical you can think of.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> They do not wear well… Low melting point, and not particularly dense means they will not last long at all. Even the hard candy coating on the outside of some brands will not last too long.
> 
> - Axis39


I'm of this mind as well. It would be my last choice of the usual suspects. I would use QS hardwood first every time. Some years ago I read a thread like this, and thought I was missing out. Tried UHMW, and some of the much harder plastic windowsill material, and in the Summer both kinda wiggled along. Those were only short lengths for BS, and router table jigs. I can't imagine how bad they would be on a TS track for a sled, or something longer like that.

If you put any time at all into a sled, or jig, have even a few bucks involved in materials for it, then the few bucks for a piece of runner stock of aluminum, or metal is well worth it. You could splurge for perfection with some of the Incra adjustable guides, but don't need to.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Try it, what's the worst that could happen, you have to remove a few screws and change the runner in 2, 5, or 20 years.


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## MiniMe (Apr 5, 2018)

I will try it on smaller jigs, as I said I already spent the money on the UHMW ones and I am planning to buy a pair of Incra metal runners as well


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## Axis39 (Jul 3, 2019)

> Have to disagree. I have two sleds that have pvc guide runners cut from pvc trim board and they work just fine. The sleds have been in use for 5 years and I haven t had any wear issues.
> 
> - WhyMe


Interesting. I would never have expected it to last very long. Admittedly, I've used about everything for quick jigs… Soft pine runners, pvc trim board, whatever was handy. But, most of them were quick one use, or short job use stuff that I didn't hold onto long.

Then again, I kinda went against the grain and used MDF to make my shop drawers. No drawer slides, just press fit boxes with pine frames for them to run/rest on. In all honesty, I don't expect them to last very long… But, I needed storage, and I needed it in a hurry… Within a budget.

I love UHMW plastic for runners (and friction solutions). But, it's pretty expensive. So, following along with my budget theme, I've been collecting UHMW before it goes into the recycle bin. It has a nice low melting point. So, I cut it up into small pieces, put it on a cheap Walmart cookie sheet, throw it in the oven, and try to get a nice flat sheet out of it. Then, I machine it with my regular woodworking tools, table saw, bandsaw, handplanes, etc and make runners and sanding blocks and sanding slips (cones and funny shapes to wrap sand paper around).

I've never worn out UHMW runners in the past.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

I asked this question once and was told they will expand/contract with temp swings so if your shop is not climate controlled this is a consideration.


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## LeeRoyMan (Feb 23, 2019)

I buy the HDPE cutting boards and cut them up. Lot of times you can find them on sell for cheap.


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## MiniMe (Apr 5, 2018)

> I asked this question once and was told they will expand/contract with temp swings so if your shop is not climate controlled this is a consideration.
> 
> - Robert


I think that goes for wood as well
Plastic should be less prone to expansion and contraction as it is not permeable and it is a good insulator (heat wise)
In this respect it should be better than wood (does not react well to humidity) and metal (it could expand or contract with the temperature but very little I guess)


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## MiniMe (Apr 5, 2018)

> I buy the HDPE cutting boards and cut them up. Lot of times you can find them on sell for cheap.
> 
> - LeeRoyMan


Good idea


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## MiniMe (Apr 5, 2018)

> I love UHMW plastic for runners (and friction solutions). But, it s pretty expensive. So, following along with my budget theme, I ve been collecting UHMW before it goes into the recycle bin. It has a nice low melting point. So, I cut it up into small pieces, put it on a cheap Walmart cookie sheet, throw it in the oven, and try to get a nice flat sheet out of it. Then, I machine it with my regular woodworking tools, table saw, bandsaw, handplanes, etc and make runners and sanding blocks and sanding slips (cones and funny shapes to wrap sand paper around).
> 
> I ve never worn out UHMW runners in the past.
> 
> - Axis39


So where do you collect your UHMW pieces from? Is that some household waste we do not realize it is around us?


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## cmacnaughton (May 17, 2019)

> I m of this mind as well. It would be my last choice of the usual suspects. I would use QS hardwood first every time. Some years ago I read a thread like this, and thought I was missing out. Tried UHMW, and some of the much harder plastic windowsill material, and in the Summer both kinda wiggled along. Those were only short lengths for BS, and router table jigs. I can t imagine how bad they would be on a TS track for a sled, or something longer like that.
> 
> - therealSteveN


I use UHMW for both of my table saw sleds without issue. Neither have any wiggle. I did buy pre-cut strips, so maybe it's just a matter of mine being an absolute perfect width for my miter slots. That said, having built my sleds in warm weather, they do contract a bit in winter, but I they still work with no wiggle in the miter slots. That UHMW is, in my experience, impervious to variations in temperature. For the record, my large sled is 24" deep, with two UHMW slots. The short sled is 8" with 2 slots.


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## WhyMe (Feb 15, 2014)

I will add that the PVC trim that I had to cut the runners from was not the cheap stuff that looks like Styrofoam on the inside with a thin cover skin. It is more of a heavy solid PVC. The only reason I used it was because I had some scraps and was curious to see how it performed. I did use more screws to hold it in place because it had some flex to it and you do not tighten the screws too much because it will expand the PVC making the runner too tight in the slot. I am a hobbyist wood worker and do not cut thousands of board feet of lumber on my table saw.


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## bgood (Feb 24, 2019)

I use solid oak (waxed) but if I could I'd use UHMW but it's not readily available to me.


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## Axis39 (Jul 3, 2019)

> So where do you collect your UHMW pieces from? Is that some household waste we do not realize it is around us?
> 
> - MiniMe


It's high density polyethylene (HDPE). I look at things before I throw them in the recycle bin. Many things are marked as HDPE or have the recycle #2. Plastic bottle caps are mostly HDPE, Milk jugs, some plastic containers, the hard plastic pieces that hold two bottles together from Costco, etc.

But, I also had a halfway crushed plastic bin, the heavy black plastic ActionPacker, that was missing it's lid. And some extra Milk Crates (My Son-In-Law owns a company delivering milk for a living). All of these are HDPE, or UHMW.

I am not the original genius on this, by the way. I come across some video on Youtube by some guy who makes fancy slingshots from HDPE. He explained that the melting point is only like 400 degrees… It gets soft, but doesn't flow like water or anything. IT also cools quickly, so you gotta move with a purpose.


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## MiniMe (Apr 5, 2018)

> So where do you collect your UHMW pieces from? Is that some household waste we do not realize it is around us?
> 
> - MiniMe
> 
> ...


Sounds like a lot of fun to save some bucks ..but it is too much fun for the money


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

My option choice is, I go to the metal salvage folk and buy 3/8" thick pieces of aluminum in random widths and lengths. Once home, I wax the cut line with paraffin (makes a BIG difference) and cut strips that fit snug in my tracks.

Initially, I just used one of my sixty tooth carbide blades, but I broke down and bought a dedicated 8" blade a few years ago, since I've cut so many for sleds, circle cutting guides and other jigs over the years.

One piece gives me so many inexpensive aluminum guide rails I've given several to friends and associates.

I'll be these wear a lot better than any of the ones mentioned above.

NOTE: I note the miter slots of my two Powermatics, Unisaw and Rikon are all just a tad different. As such, I may have to cut a few thousandths over for the largest slot, then sand a bit, if I use it on a machine with a few thousandths smaller slot.


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