# Calling All Shopsmith Owners - A Dust Collection Question



## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

Well this is my first day back on my feet since Monday, when I suffered a severe allergic reaction to some Spanish Cedar I was sanding for the liner of a humidor build I am doing. I was using a NIOSH certified face mask with a P100 rating. I guess I didn't have it fitted to my face properly, and a little of the obnoxious dust got in, maybe a lot. Next thing I knew I was flat on my back for almost a week trying to recover. So this has gotten me very serious about dust collection in my shop. I went out and bought a Dust Deputy by Oneida, and it is phenomenal. There is absolutely NOTHING in my Ridgid shop vac when I use it.

Now the fun begins. I'm quite certain I can hobble the hoses and blast gates etc together to add a vacuum station to all my tools, but the Shopsmith… oh the Shopsmith.

How to do dust collection when operating the Shopsmith is something I can't find with Google, except for a reference to a dust collection system they had on later models that turned out to be, well, in a word, crap.

So fellow Shopsmith owners, any ideas for dust collecting on a Mark V? Thanks in advance.


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

Jerry I got the lower cover and side cover to attempt DC. To call it crap would be a compliment. It conveniently throws the dust directly into your face. I don't use it anymore. Plus you get the added benefit of watching the lower half of the blade spin. That said I've been ripping plywood all morning. I did break it down first.


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

> Jerry I got the lower cover and side cover to attempt DC. To call it crap would be a compliment. It conveniently throws the dust directly into your face. I don t use it anymore. Plus you get the added benefit of watching the lower half of the blade spin. That said I ve been ripping plywood all morning. I did break it down first.
> 
> - jumbojack


Thanks Jumbojack, I kinda thought that was the case. I'm thinking there may be something I can make out of wood that might work.


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## JoeinGa (Nov 26, 2012)

Sorry to hear that nasty stuff got into your system. If your avatar is any kind of recent, I'd say your mustache is probably where the mask wont seal. I have a full beard and there's no way I can ever get ANY mask to seal against my face. And no, shaving for me is NOT an option! My youngest daughter is 35 and she's NEVER seen me without … I'm too dang ugly under it and besides, I'd feel nekkid without it!

As to your dust collector problem, I think I'd start by looking at what some of the folks have done for their miter saws. Some sort of large chute/funnel that will hang off the back of your ShopSmith, or maybe free-stand behind it.


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

> Sorry to hear that nasty stuff got into your system. If your avatar is any kind of recent, I d say your mustache is probably where the mask wont seal. I have a full beard and there s no way I can ever get ANY mask to seal against my face. And no, shaving for me is NOT an option! My youngest daughter is 35 and she s NEVER seen me without … I m too dang ugly under it and besides, I d feel nekkid without it!
> 
> As to your dust collector problem, I think I d start by looking at what some of the folks have done for their miter saws. Some sort of large chute/funnel that will hang off the back of your ShopSmith, or maybe free-stand behind it.
> 
> - JoeinGa


Joe, thanks, the mustache is not getting in the way, but I didn't have the lower part of the mask secured properly, and I got some seepage. I've been thinking along the lines of a sort of a flat funnel arrangement I could make out of wood to custom fit the bottom of the SS table.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I have a Shopsmith that I use for some things and catching the dust is almost impossible.

If I were you, I might go see a professional to get a mask fit properly. Where I worked we had to wear masks and had a fit test by certified people and it did make a big difference. Of course the other part is that all your clothes, hair and everything else has the dust on it and has to be cleaned and put somewhere so that you will not breath the dust.


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## MyGrowthRings (May 4, 2008)

Which functions on the Shopsmith machine are you looking to collect dust from? Which model do you own? I have a Mark V Model 510 and the dust port on the tablesaw and sanding disc are excellent. This same lower saw guard/dust chute is used on the Model 505, 520 and the new Mark 7. The saw guard on all previous Shopsmith tools were designed to protect Shopsmith, if you know what I mean, and dust collection was an afterthought. I use a Shopsmith DC3300 dust collector, but a ShopVac will work too, if you can stand the decibels. Because the guards are designed to work with 2 1/2" vac hose fittings the 4"-6" hoses found on other dust collectors will create a challenge that must be met with duct tape or other creative solutions.


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## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

I have seen people use the helmet mask thing with air filter because they are allergic


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

> Which functions on the Shopsmith machine are you looking to collect dust from? Which model do you own? I have a Mark V Model 510 and the dust port on the tablesaw and sanding disc are excellent. This same lower saw guard/dust chute is used on the Model 505, 520 and the new Mark 7. The saw guard on all previous Shopsmith tools were designed to protect Shopsmith, if you know what I mean, and dust collection was an afterthought. I use a Shopsmith DC3300 dust collector, but a ShopVac will work too, if you can stand the decibels. Because the guards are designed to work with 2 1/2" vac hose fittings the 4"-6" hoses found on other dust collectors will create a challenge that must be met with duct tape or other creative solutions.
> 
> - MrToolHunter


Is this the type you have?

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/catalog/sawguardsystem.htm

I'm mainly concerned with table saw dust collection. Jumbojack says his does not work well, you say yours does. I wonder if you have a different setup than him?


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

> Jerry I got the lower cover and side cover to attempt DC. To call it crap would be a compliment. It conveniently throws the dust directly into your face. I don t use it anymore. Plus you get the added benefit of watching the lower half of the blade spin. That said I ve been ripping plywood all morning. I did break it down first.
> 
> - jumbojack


Is this the type you have?

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/catalog/sawguardsystem.htm


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## beamrider (Mar 19, 2010)

A thick line of Vaseline around the mask will seal it, even if you have facial hair. Pain in the ass to wash out, but it works.


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

> A thick line of Vaseline around the mask will seal it, even if you have facial hair. Pain in the ass to wash out, but it works.
> 
> - beamrider


Nice! Thanks for the tip!


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## JoeinGa (Nov 26, 2012)

Oh SURE Jerry. I wanna be there when you TRY to explain the VASELINE in your mustache to you wife! 
.


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

> Oh SURE Jerry. I wanna be there when you TRY to explain the VASELINE in your mustache to you wife!
> .
> 
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, hadn't thought of that, maybe some double sided carpet tape…


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## TerryDowning (Aug 8, 2012)

If you're not on the Shopsmith forums, join that one. Everything you ever wanted to know about Shopsmith is all there. Lots of great people too.

http://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/

What model of SS do you have? The Originals (Model 500) are absolutely miserable with dust collection and it's an obvious after thought. I understand the 505s and up have better guards and better dust collection but some modifications may still be required.

For sanding you may want to consider a down draft table for dust collection.

If you want to get serious about dust collection though, step 1 is to move away from the canister vac method. For dust collection, it's all about the fine dust. That means CFM and static pressure not suction. You won't pick up a bowling ball with a dust collector and you don't need to. You need to get the small fine dust particles out of the air.

Google Bill Pentz. and you will find more information than most will ever want to know about dust collection.

After a ton of researching and cost analysis, I personally decided to move the other way with regards to dust collection and i'm now using hand tools more and more. They don't create nearly as much dust, and definitely don't fling it into the air the way machines do. The chips and localized dust are easily swept up with a broom and dust pan. Overall this switch has made the hobbyist nature of my wood working much quieter and more enjoyable to me.

On the occasions I do use machines now. (mostly my 1955 SS) I have the garage door open and high volume fans pushing the air out of the garage. This strategy drastically reduces the dust layering/build up in my garage. I do use the shop vac when using the Bandsaw SPT. all the others, I let the fan blow the fines out of the garage and clean up with a broom and shop vac.

I'm not done in the shop until my wife's car is parked in it and it better not get a layer of dust deposited on it overnight.

I also do not struggle with allergies or negative reactions (yet).


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

> If you re not on the Shopsmith forums, join that one. Everything you ever wanted to know about Shopsmith is all there. Lots of great people too.
> 
> http://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/


I will do that.



> What model of SS do you have? The Originals (Model 500) are absolutely miserable with dust collection and it s an obvious after thought. I understand the 505s and up have better guards and better dust collection but some modifications may still be required.


I have the worst, a 500 Greenie. I've restored it, but the basic problems remain because of the design.



> For sanding you may want to consider a down draft table for dust collection.


That's a great idea. I'd forgotten about those



> If you want to get serious about dust collection though, step 1 is to move away from the canister vac method. For dust collection, it s all about the fine dust. That means CFM and static pressure not suction. You won t pick up a bowling ball with a dust collector and you don t need to. You need to get the small fine dust particles out of the air.
> 
> Google Bill Pentz. and you will find more information than most will ever want to know about dust collection.


I understand that, and I've already spent a lot of time on Bill Pentz website, but the cost of a system like the Clearview is way beyond my reach. That doesn't mean I shouldn't try to improve things more. Right now, a 6.5 HP Ridgid shop vac and a dust deputy, along with the Grizzly dust collector I bought last week and a good respirator is what I can afford. I am thinking of building a cyclonic dust collector for the shop, but according to the requirements on Pentz' website, I need a 5 HP motor to power it. I have a 10 HP 3 phase motor that I bought off of Craigslist before I understood the difference between 3 phase and single phase. I can't use it because I don't have and cannot get 3 phase to my shop. It's basically brand new and it's just sitting in my shop waiting for the day I can sell it or trade it for a 5 HP single phase motor for my cyclonic dust collector build.



> After a ton of researching and cost analysis, I personally decided to move the other way with regards to dust collection and i m now using hand tools more and more. They don t create nearly as much dust, and definitely don t fling it into the air the way machines do. The chips and localized dust are easily swept up with a broom and dust pan. Overall this switch has made the hobbyist nature of my wood working much quieter and more enjoyable to me.


I do use hand tools whenever possible, but I think it's important to point out in this discussion that Bill Pentz' documentation specifically mentions that hand tools also create a significant amount of the dangerous 2-3 micron particles, so in my personal opinion, I think it's important for all woodworkers, myself included, to get good dust collection in their shop as soon as they can manage it.



> On the occasions I do use machines now. (mostly my 1955 SS) I have the garage door open and high volume fans pushing the air out of the garage. This strategy drastically reduces the dust layering/build up in my garage. I do use the shop vac when using the Bandsaw SPT. all the others, I let the fan blow the fines out of the garage and clean up with a broom and shop vac.
> 
> I m not done in the shop until my wife s car is parked in it and it better not get a layer of dust deposited on it overnight.


A great strategy if you're not living in Oregon in the wintertime. For me, that is very seldom an option


> I also do not struggle with allergies or negative reactions (yet).


Neither did I. In my whole life I've always been completely unaffected by allergens. I think what happened to me is that my face was very close to the work, my mask was not sealing correctly, and I just got hammered with a huge load of Spanish Cypress dust at one sitting. The effect was overwhelming. I went to bed feeling just fine, and the next morning, I was FUBAR.

Thanks for your impressive contribution to this thread Terry


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

I use a HF two hp DC with a canister filter and a simple shop made separator and it works well on all the SS functions to deal with *dust*. The lower saw guard dust collection provision on my 510 allows the DC to evacuate all the fine airborne particles but the SS just isn't well enough sealed to get all the "sawdust" size particles. I sweep them up at the end of the day but don't have any trouble with fine airborne stuff. I'm allergic, I would know.


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

> I use a HF two hp DC with a canister filter and a simple shop made separator and it works well on all the SS functions to deal with *dust*. The lower saw guard dust collection provision on my 510 allows the DC to evacuate all the fine airborne particles but the SS just isn t well enough sealed to get all the "sawdust" size particles. I sweep them up at the end of the day but don t have any trouble with fine airborne stuff. I m allergic, I would know.
> 
> - shipwright


Thanks Paul, this is very good information. Is your shop made separator like a cyclonic one or possibly a Thien baffle system?


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

It is a very simple and cheap cyclone made from a five gallon plastic pail with the bottom cut out, a garbage can, a 4" plastic elbow, and a disc of MDF. You can see it in this blog entry.
I have more photos if you want them.


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## donbee (Feb 7, 2009)

Having used my Shopsmith for nearly 30 years, I have given up on dust collection. I have a lot of other tools with DC, but the SS is a bust.
So I have a Triton hood with filtered air system.
Sad to say, Triton doesn't seem to be making them anymore. But I keep mine running because it does the job.
I've been told, though that I look like a crazed beekeeper when I use it!

Don


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## pjr1 (Jan 28, 2015)

I have one shopsmith tool, a bandsaw on a power station. My DC picks up maybe 50% of the dust using the factory dust port. I've heard of mods people have done to improve things but I just live with it. Sorry to hear about your respiratory issues.


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## ljhhontx (Jan 17, 2011)

What you need is positive pressure on the mask. A cpap machine setup offers that and can usually be found on craigslist relatively cheap. The machine itself would need to be enclosed in a filtered box away from point of use and the hoses would need to be coupled up to provide movability but it should work fine


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

> It is a very simple and cheap cyclone made from a five gallon plastic pail with the bottom cut out, a garbage can, a 4" plastic elbow, and a disc of MDF. You can see it in this blog entry.
> I have more photos if you want them.
> 
> - shipwright


Paul, you have a really nice setup. I am going to spend some time studying all of your posts and pictures. I'm quite sure I can learn a lot from that. Thanks!


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

Well this is what I've come up with for a dust shroud for the Shopsmith. There are a couple of bolts on the underside of the saw table nearest to the power head. My plan is to bolt though that ledge on the top left to hold the assembly to the table. Now that I look at it, the side to the right of the saw blade is going to need to be removeable so I can gain access to the arbor.


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## Kentuk55 (Sep 21, 2010)

Sorry I don't have any input about dust collection and a shopsmith. Also, sorry to hear about your unfortunate bout with that nasty thing we all know can hurt us. Glad you survived it. We all need to open our eyes about dust and how bad it is, and/or, how it can put a hurt on us. Work/Play safe. Keep makin dust is what I always say, but, I'm gonna add this: Just don't breath in any dust you create.


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

You have a 500? I will.send you the DC stuff I have. It may give you some ideas and/or parts.


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

> You have a 500? I will.send you the DC stuff I have. It may give you some ideas and/or parts.
> 
> - jumbojack


Jumbojack, wow, that's generous. I'll PM you my address. What can I do in return? If I come up with something that works, I'll make you one.
-Jer


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

> Sorry I don t have any input about dust collection and a shopsmith. Also, sorry to hear about your unfortunate bout with that nasty thing we all know can hurt us. Glad you survived it. We all need to open our eyes about dust and how bad it is, and/or, how it can put a hurt on us. Work/Play safe. Keep makin dust is what I always say, but, I m gonna add this: Just don t breath in any dust you create.
> 
> - Roger


It's okay Roger, from what I can tell, many a fine mind has tried and failed at the shopsmith dust collection thing, and yes, it's like the elephant in the corner, nobody wants to deal with it or talk about it, but once it steps on you, it's a whole 'nother ball game. I was reading on Bill Pentz' website that there are a lot of similarities between fine dust and asbestos. Now that will make you think…


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## fitzhugh (Nov 5, 2010)

I'm reviving this thread in hopes you found something that worked. I have been picturing something much like what you drew, along with adding a shark guard type modification to the upper blade guard (plastic model 500 type). The lower guard on my 83 has a tiny 1.5 inch port with extra internal baffle like supports just to make sure it doesn't, you know, collect dust by accident or anything. Really really useless.
I also have a Shopsmith jointer, planer and bandsaw to modify as possible. I want 4" ports preferably two of them, on each.
I found a cheap Delta 50-850 dc,1.5 HP but that's as large as I can run with just 120 in the house. I'm installing it today, by which I mean I went around yesterday and asked ask the neighbors if they will put up with it for a month or two until I build a cyclone and move the blower inside, and today I'm going to stick the whole thing just outside the shop window.
It is loud but nowhere near as ugly a sound as a shop vac. Deep WHOOSH vs horrid screaming whine. It's got a sort of woody quality about it vs the shop vac's dreadful tinny sorry if screech. Dust. Gorn. (



)

May I ask what your symptoms were, Jerry?

Sad thing is I'm doing so after having the same thing happen, though apparently not as severe. I tried turning on my ss, made a decent first bowl out of what turned out to be incense cedar. Lungs hurt, eyes, nose and throat all burn. Even after vacuuming a bunch I still can't sit in the living room, which the shop opens onto… No choice but to pull up the ugly wall to wall. I think Bill pentz wrote he had to remove his as well. Landlord gave OK long ago when I pulled the rug from what is now my shop. Awful, disgusting task. I'll wear my respirator for sure.


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

> I m reviving this thread in hopes you found something that worked. I have been picturing something much like what you drew, along with adding a shark guard type modification to the upper blade guard (plastic model 500 type). The lower guard on my 83 has a tiny 1.5 inch port with extra internal baffle like supports just to make sure it doesn t, you know, collect dust by accident or anything. Really really useless.
> I also have a Shopsmith jointer, planer and bandsaw to modify as possible. I want 4" ports preferably two of them, on each.
> I found a cheap Delta 50-850 dc,1.5 HP but that s as large as I can run with just 120 in the house. I m installing it today, by which I mean I went around yesterday and asked ask the neighbors if they will put up with it for a month or two until I build a cyclone and move the blower inside, and today I m going to stick the whole thing just outside the shop window.
> It is loud but nowhere near as ugly a sound as a shop vac. Deep WHOOSH vs horrid screaming whine. It s got a sort of woody quality about it vs the shop vac s dreadful tinny sorry if screech. Dust. Gorn. (
> ...


Well, I have not built that yet. I have used the lower guard that Jack so graciously sent me with some measure of success, but I need to do some more modifications to it to get it to work well. Problem is that we are now having to move because our landlady passed away and the inheritors of her estate don't want to deal with rentals, so they're selling the house we've lived in for 13 years. This just happened about a month ago. It's taken us a month to figure out what to do and where to go, so I've not been able to do any woodworking since then because we've been so busy scrambling to deal with the situation. So, sadly, this is what my shop looks like right now as I reach the finishing stages of boxing it up and moving it to McMinnville, OR. Notice the brand new table saw that I probably will not even get a chance to unpack for 6 months…



















As far as my symptoms go, they were flu-like. Whole body ached, couldn't summon enough energy to get out of bed for over a week.


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## NoSpace (Jan 2, 2015)

"I do use hand tools whenever possible, but I think it's important to point out in this discussion that Bill Pentz' documentation specifically mentions that hand tools also create a significant amount of the dangerous 2-3 micron particles, so in my personal opinion, I think it's important for all woodworkers, myself included, to get good dust collection in their shop as soon as they can manage it."

Hi Jerry. it's my opinion that in an ideal world an ideal dust collection system that traps everything at the source would be ideal, but I think there's some misdirection going on here.

To start, I think it's a problem that a person can study certain websites for hours and hours and not come away having learned that for 250$ they can buy a laser particulate counter (Dylos) and actually know at any and all times, the levels of small and large particles in the air down to .5 micron. That may not be intentional, it could be that certain research was done in 1995 and it's now 2015.

Once you can see the enemy, you don't have to rely on anyone's opinions about how much dust is produced by hand tools or an unsealed table saw or anything else. You can measure it yourself. You can know exactly when it's safe to remove the mask. you can blow your shop apron with an air compressor and watch your monitor and see for yourself. You can see how quickly levels drop when dust collectors or air filtration systems are used.

A second matter of misdirection is that certain websites turn what I have found to be a simple matter into rocket science. Within 5 minutes of cutting the nastiest stuff around on my unsealed contractor table saw with a small fein turbo 1 connected to the exhaust port, the air in my shop will measure levels about as low as the rest of the house on a given day just running my relatively cheap Jet air filtration system. Within 20 minutes, the air is really clean, and within 40 minutes, my air is much cleaner than the Leeds Platinum certified office building I work at.
It just takes a decent air filtration system and wear the mask until levels show safe.

The open question is if a mask is really good enough for the time the dust is in the air with you at the source. Your experience is a concerning data point. I will point out that if the p100 isn't good enough, certain websites don't lend any insight into this. They don't show some study where the P100 mask can't clean the air properly absent the assistance of a heavy-duty real-time dust collector getting levels down to a certain point first.

For your situation, have you gone in for allergy tests to figure out exactly what you're allergic to? Might be the first step.


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

> "I do use hand tools whenever possible, but I think it's important to point out in this discussion that Bill Pentz' documentation specifically mentions that hand tools also create a significant amount of the dangerous 2-3 micron particles, so in my personal opinion, I think it's important for all woodworkers, myself included, to get good dust collection in their shop as soon as they can manage it."
> 
> Hi Jerry. it s my opinion that in an ideal world an ideal dust collection system that traps everything at the source would be ideal, but I think there s some misdirection going on here.
> 
> ...


I have the same air filtration unit you do and the same face mask you do.


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## fitzhugh (Nov 5, 2010)

Wow, this reply grew long!

Jerry, thank you for replying. And here I've been moping about the house and complaining that I have been out of my shop for just a month or so while trying to solve this dust issue, and after some mild but scary discomfort. I looked ät your thread about your move… Just be sure you acknowledge and take time to process the strain of caretaking. It's so easy to overlook or suppress it all since the focus is on those you are helping and it gets toxic fast. Damhik. I hope this isn't intrusive of me.
I'll definitely share what I end up making for each tool. It won't all happen fast, but I've got to do it.

Nospace, talking about data points, your results with your saw and fein turbo and the shop filter is an encouraging one. 
I agree, the real answer is to use a meter and know what is actually going on. I won't be able to buy one anytime soon, this DC project is pushing my tiny budget as it is, though I will get one someday. I've been meaning to email Bill Pentz and suggest he rent a few out, with a full replacement cost deposit in case someone flakes, as would happen sooner or later. It may be the best way to convince folk they need to do something, or know when they've done enough, as on your case.

He actually does suggest buying a dylos and has their ads hard coded on his site, though it is all too easy to miss something on it. I've come to pretty strongly believe he's just what he says he is and not trying to fluff up business. 
It is hard to find the actual information one needs to have to fix the problem on his site. It seems to me it is because he reiterates all the reasons why it needs to be done before getting to the applicable suggestions and data. It's like he worries someone will land on a page when first at the site and wants to be SURE they get how dangerous it is. This makes the site much harder to use. I spent long hours over a number of days trying to figure out what to do. This was made much harder because he takes a very anti harm reduction approach: he is so firm in his all-or-nothing approach that he misses a chance to help many who would greatly improve their dust exposure but are unwilling or unable to do dust collection correctly, be it due to hard limits on their budget, lack of 240 capacity, priorities, etc. I would bet many do what I did the first time I saw the site: shoved the information back to a dark corner where I could avoid thinking about it, only revisiting it when I had a reaction. He mentioned in passing that you can use a mask and fan to remain safe, but he certainly doesn't devote any time at all on less than ideal a setups.

Yesterday I put in a 3000+ cfm window fan. I've got a mask, and hope to get the DC going soon.

I think he explicitly accounting for a range of common or even expected inefficiencies, building in a safety margin in his recommendations in an attempt to idiot proof them. Reading older forum posts and archived older copies of his website it seems to me he went from saying various things could possibly work if done just right to saying he no longer recommended them because too many did not follow the exact details needed to make a borderline setup work, to not addressing them at all and saying only the full idiot proof plan with ask the built in assumptions can work and anything else is negligently insufficient.

A case in point: how close can I get if I run a 1.5hp Delta DC (which he says has some of the only well designed impellers, though they are 1/2" too small to meet his minimum), use only the shortest possible well configured smooth walled 6" duct to a single machine with a well optimized hood and porting, vent outside with no filter (reducing the pressure loss from a filter), and use a cyclone to separate out the larger stuff?
My sense was that fell close to working, based on what he's written, and could actually work, based on his spreadsheet.

Also, it seemed like a cyclone has to work much harder to separate the dangerous fines. What about a cyclone optimized only to separate the larger stuff since I'm going to vent outside? There are some areas he optimized his design that would still apply, like the ramp and intake, but would a chips and larger particles only cyclone still need to be the same size and proportions as a fine dust cyclone? His spreadsheet says a 1.5 HP blower needs a 22 (or was it 24?) inch diameter cyclone to generate enough force to separate fines. But I'd I don't care about the fines once they are sucked up at the source, they'll just vent outside.

He actually spent a bunch of time answering my emails but this was never answered in a way that was clear to me. I do believe he is simply trying to help people. I also believe he is too close to what he's written after spending so much time and can no longer see it as it is, as a new reader sees it, and that is too bad.


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

RE: Nospace and Fitzhugh: Here's what's working for me now, or at least was before I had to box up the shop to move it. I have a HF dust collection unit that I use on all power tool operations, in addition to that I have the Grizzly equivalent of the Delta DC unit, and in addition to that, I wear the 3M P100 face mask during all operations whether power or hand tools. I run the DC ceiling unit all the time, and I never take the face mask off until all particulates have cleared. So far so good.


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## fitzhugh (Nov 5, 2010)

Yeah, I do hope to test and find I don't need to wear my mask and a big window fan won't be fun if we ever have a cold winter again, but until I know better I'll use them anytime I make more than just a few cuts out with at all with anything listed as even slightly toxic.

I do plan to make an air filter but the Delta is probably like your hf, a single stage dust collector.

I've been pondering the changes to machines, hoods and ports and all. It all seems quite possible, just need a big shopping trip.

I'll post anything I come up with.


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## NoSpace (Jan 2, 2015)

looks like you've got a great setup Jerry. Don't get me wrong, I'm envious of anyone who has a real DC. I have a friend who will give me a brand new one for free but I just can't sacrifice the space right now, and I know it's not going to help much with my table saw.

hey, maybe your allergies are what save you. A guy I was acquainted with a couple of years ago got sick, finally went to the doctor; stage 4 cancer and he was dead in a few months. Prior to that he was healthy as an Ox, never got sick or had problems. He worked in some factory where he was exposed to strong rubber and plastic fumes for 20+ years. He'd apparently complain about it in recent years as the fumes worsened, but manned up and dealt with it. I met him for the first time about a month before he was diagnosed, and was in great shape and you'd think nothing wrong.

If allergies are the canary in the mine, that's a good thing.


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

> looks like you ve got a great setup Jerry. Don t get me wrong, I m envious of anyone who has a real DC. I have a friend who will give me a brand new one for free but I just can t sacrifice the space right now, and I know it s not going to help much with my table saw.
> 
> hey, maybe your allergies are what save you. A guy I was acquainted with a couple of years ago got sick, finally went to the doctor; stage 4 cancer and he was dead in a few months. Prior to that he was healthy as an Ox, never got sick or had problems. He worked in some factory where he was exposed to strong rubber and plastic fumes for 20+ years. He d apparently complain about it in recent years as the fumes worsened, but manned up and dealt with it. I met him for the first time about a month before he was diagnosed, and was in great shape and you d think nothing wrong.
> 
> ...


I agree. I've only been seriously woodworking for about a year now, and that reaction happened about 8 months in. It was a huge wake up call for me, to see just what wood dust can do. Subsequently I discovered that there is very little difference between wood dust and asbestos! If you can't have a DC at least use a mask and don't go back into the shop without it until the dust settles.


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## 53rdcard (Jul 21, 2010)

I got a dust collector from harbor freight, it was one of those big ones, and it works fantastic, however, the limitation for the shopsmith (i have the mark 5) is that it has a incomplete dust collection for the table saw, i say this because it doesnt collect from the top of the blade guard, i have seen some higher end saws that have a port under and a port on the blade guard. so it is able to collect the dust from the top of the cut as well as the bottom. with the guard on i dont get much in the way of dust using my HF collector, it is a VERY strong collector. far better then a shopvac or even the shopsmith dust collector, in fact i had one of those i got with my used mark 5 and sold it to pay for the HF one, never regretted that decision.

But like you i have a allergy to certain wood dusts, and instead of trying to get a collector for everything, cause no matter how good it is, you wont get everything, i got a positive pressure filtering air mask i got the trend air shield when sears had it on sale for $200 several years ago, but today if i was getting it and had to pay full price i would get the trend air shield pro, the intake vents being on the sides instead of the front would make a really big difference.

the nice thing about this mask is, it doesnt have to seal totally on your face because the air that comes into it is prefiltered and it makes a positive air pressure area inside it, with full face coverage, its great for people with glasses, and it is very comfortable to wear.


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

> I got a dust collector from harbor freight, it was one of those big ones, and it works fantastic, however, the limitation for the shopsmith (i have the mark 5) is that it has a incomplete dust collection for the table saw, i say this because it doesnt collect from the top of the blade guard, i have seen some higher end saws that have a port under and a port on the blade guard. so it is able to collect the dust from the top of the cut as well as the bottom. with the guard on i dont get much in the way of dust using my HF collector, it is a VERY strong collector. far better then a shopvac or even the shopsmith dust collector, in fact i had one of those i got with my used mark 5 and sold it to pay for the HF one, never regretted that decision.
> 
> But like you i have a allergy to certain wood dusts, and instead of trying to get a collector for everything, cause no matter how good it is, you wont get everything, i got a positive pressure filtering air mask i got the trend air shield when sears had it on sale for $200 several years ago, but today if i was getting it and had to pay full price i would get the trend air shield pro, the intake vents being on the sides instead of the front would make a really big difference.
> 
> ...


Boy that Trend unit is the holy grail, and I agree with you on all counts. Money though, Geez. it's 3 times the price I paid for the HF dust collector. You know, sometimes I think aspiring woodworkers should be advised to approach woodworking the way an espresso business approaches their purchases. Having owned one, the common knowledge is that you buy your grinder first. It turns out it is the single most important appliance in the shop. Next comes the espresso machine. You can skimp on the espresso machine, but not on the grinder. If woodworkers only considered dust collection as their single most important first purchase, we would all be a lot healthier.


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## 53rdcard (Jul 21, 2010)

If i hadnt found the original for $200 from sears a few years ago, i wouldnt have one today, they are very expensive.

But boy is it worth it in retrospect. if mine ever dies im going to save up and get the pro unit


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Check this out Jerry - positive air pressure - smells like flowers - cheap.
Maybe a little clumsy for full time use but it may interest you.
http://lumberjocks.com/shipwright/blog/40899


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

> Check this out Jerry - positive air pressure - smells like flowers - cheap.
> Maybe a little clumsy for full time use but it may interest you.
> http://lumberjocks.com/shipwright/blog/40899
> 
> - shipwright


I keep meaning to work my way through the wealth of material you've posted. This one is a gem. Thanks Paul. After I get moved and get the new shop constructed this is at the top of my list.

Once again you have proven that you are smarter than the average bear. Hoping you recognize the reference to the Yogi Bear cartoon! I might be dating myself here…..


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Don't worry about it Jerry. I went to school with Ranger Smith.


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

> Don t worry about it Jerry. I went to school with Ranger Smith.
> 
> - shipwright


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