# Help Choosing HVLP: Fuji Mini-Mite 4 or Apollo ECO-4?



## ghanson (Feb 8, 2015)

My wife has informed me that we're re-doing the house. This includes changing out 13 interior doors and replacing nearly all of the trim moulding throughout the entire house. Oh, she also wants the change to include white-painted wood rather than stained. I do not know whether she wants latex or oil-based paint but know that eventually I'll use both (if not on this project then the next one.)

I plan to do the painting and need help in choosing an HVLP system. I have the $200 Campbell Hausfeld 2-Stage HVLP but have never been satisfied with the results. Since I'll be doing a bit of volume (if I do well she is considering re-painting bathroom and kitchen cabinets) I want to upgrade my equipment and my skills.

I have come down to two main contenders: the Fuji Mini-Mite 4 and the Apollo ECO-4. I've read a lot of good reviews about the Fuji and the Apollo seems well-rated. On Amazon and at Rockler they're both going for about $750.

I am a hobbyist who likes to do a good, quality job. I intend to spray doors, cabinets, baseboard and moulding with latex and enamel paints. I also would like to spray stain to re-treat my grandchildren's cedar play set each spring.

Given these goals which unit should I buy?

While I'm bothering you for advice: since most of the time the jobs are small would a gravity-fed cup be smarter for me than a suction cup?

Thanks for the help.

Greg


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## ghanson (Feb 8, 2015)

Or…would I be better off buying a separate air compressor and an HVLP gun such as Fuji XPC or Apollo A7500T?


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Pm Me, I can help


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## ghanson (Feb 8, 2015)

Charles,
I am brand new here and don't have enough posts to PM yet. As soon as I can intelligently add to other threads I'll be able to get to you.
Thanks.


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## Gpops (Dec 20, 2008)

Greg,

Talk to Charles. I was just going to recommend it when I saw him respond. I am taking Charles Woodworking classes and can say he has a ton of knowledge that he is willing to share. Don


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## ghanson (Feb 8, 2015)

Don,
Thanks. I can use all of the help I can get!
I'm trying to be smart and do my homework BEFORE I spend my money… :-D

Greg


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## ghanson (Feb 8, 2015)

Don,
Is that "Gpops" as in Grandpa? I'm just "Pops" to mine. I don't know how I acquired the handle but one day I was "Pops" and it stuck.

Greg


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

ok here is my web site, http://www.cn-woodworking.com/

on the right side top column 3rd from the bottom is contact us, I dont want to give out my email, did that and got hacked 3 times and averaged about 300 spam emails a day, I think we need to have a phone conversation to save alot of typing, so do the contact thing and we will go from there,


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## ghanson (Feb 8, 2015)

Affirmative. I read you on the spam issue. I've become quite an email filter craftsman in an effort to at least lessen the flow of junk into my inbox.

Thanks for helping out the new guy.

Greg


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## Earlextech (Jan 13, 2011)

My two cents - http://www.sprayport.com/#chapter-1
If you have any specific questions I'd be happy to help.


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## GregD (Oct 24, 2009)

I am also a hobbiest and have been doing renovations to my house.

I happen to have the Earlex Spray Station 6900. I got it about a year ago. I am happy with it although unimpressed with the friction-fit connector joining the hose to the gun. The Earlex hose is very light and flexible, which is very desirable, but don't step on it. If I had to do it again I would probably have gone for a Spray Port model if I went with Earlex. Having a bit more pressure from the turbine might be nice in some situations, and having a non-bleeder gun might also be nice.

I have been very pleased spraying General Finishes Enduro undercoat & pigmented poly on cabinets and doors. Probably most HVLP systems will spray this well. GF suggested a coat of Enduro clear, but this changed the color from bright white to a yellow white. I am very happy with the white pigmented poly without the clear coat.

I have had mixed results spraying latex with HVLP. Here is where a beefier turbine may make a difference. Interior latex will spray if thinned. I haven't yet tried Flotrol. It goes slow and there seems to be more overspray. On trim I got better results than I usually get with a brush. But I am also going to try adding Flotrol and brushing.

If you are spraying "on site" and not in a shop space, there is a lot of work involved in protecting the space from overspray. It gets better after you've done it a couple of times, but it is still significant. If Flotrol and a brush works almost as good as spray, that will likely become my preferred method for painting trim in most situations.

I also got a Graco airless sprayer last year. Those things spit out latex paint fast and furious. Lots of overspray. During my kitchen renovation before cabinet installation I sprayed 3 gallons of primer in probably an hour or less. With a short extension spraying the ceiling worked great also. Even so, I used a roller on the walls.


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## GregD (Oct 24, 2009)

I also suggest you get a Mirka sanding block with a vacuum attachment and a full assortment of "sandpaper" for it. Just a few strokes between coats can really improve the final result, especially when using the GF Enduro products.


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

I sprayed latex (Valspar Signature) using my HF HVLP over the summer on my dresser upcycle project. I'm sure I completely violated any rules regarding the amount of water/Floetrol to thin with. I also used the biggest needle I included (1.8mm or 2.0mm). Overall a big learning experience and not something I would want to do regularly. The GF paint on the other hand worked great. Only minimal thinning (maybe 5%) and no Floetrol was required.


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## ghanson (Feb 8, 2015)

I told my wife that I had posted on LumberJocks and was getting good information and help on equipment and paint. I said that after reading a lot of posts on the board we shouldn't use latex but lacquer because it would spray better.

Rolling her eyes, (she is an interior designer) my wife informed me that I will be using SW ProClassic acrylic paint. I said "Acrylic, I meant acrylic not lacquer." I told her that General Finishes is highly praised here and she replied that if I can source it I can use it.

I will be setting up a temporary booth in my garage to do the painting. This way I'll be able to set up drying racks for the trim and I plan to suspend the doors from the ceiling. Still learning…thanks to everyone on the board for the help.

Greg


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

I can also guide you on the paint, I agree the Earlex 6000  is a really super nice unit , The students who come thru our classes love it , this is the unit we will be discussing .


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

Do you know how many stages my compresser driven HVLP gun has? About 120.
No limit to the output. You can dial it in just how you like it. 
A woodcraft gun sells for $40. A nice Porter Cable PSH1 with pressure regulator is around $100.
http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/1750 
After getting nice off-the-gun finishes with this setup for years, I'm not sure why anyone would pay more.

As far as staining the play set… get a $10 Harbor Freight HVLP gun. Dedicate that one to stain-only.

Good luck with whatever you choose. With the description of your wife you provided, you'll need it.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

I have no issue with air driven guns, I agree , but turbines are self contained and you dont have moisture issues and less over spray


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## ghanson (Feb 8, 2015)

> Good luck with whatever you choose. With the description of your wife you provided, you ll need it.
> 
> - pintodeluxe


She's not that bad (and very cute)! She is just a pro in her field and wants the job done right, especially when it is her own house. 
I sprayed a cabinet with the aforementioned CH sprayer and the job didn't turn out too well. I blame the equipment for only part of it which is why, before embarking on the new projects, I have come here.


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## GregD (Oct 24, 2009)

> Rolling her eyes, (she is an interior designer) my wife informed me that I will be using SW ProClassic acrylic paint.


Yup. That is the product I am using on my trim. I did spray it with some success and will be trying it again, along with adding Flotrol and brushing. Some of the expensive SW products level quite nicely; I have seen imperfections in the wet film that were gone once the paint was dry. Harmony interior paint and Emerald exterior paint do not level at all in my experience; what you see in the fresh wet film you will see in the dry finish.

But I think the GF Enduro white poly produces a distinctly nicer finish. I have it on two interior doors (which are now off-white because they got the clear coat that did not come out perfectly clear), a bathroom cabinet, and the new fiberglass back door (or it will be the back door once I install it this weekend). Use the undercoat, sand between coats (maybe only 2 or 3 strokes) and the result can be very nice without a lot of fussing or headache. She may have a point; getting the GF product may not be painless. Woodcraft was willing to order what I wanted.

SW apparently has products specifically for cabinets which (as I recall) is more like a pigmented poly or lacquer but even after several calls to various parts of the company I couldn't find a way to buy any. The retail stores didn't know what I was talking about and the commercial products contact was not much better. There is now a SW commercial products store not far from the Woodcraft store (SW Houston) that I might try next time.


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## GregD (Oct 24, 2009)

never mind, user error.


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## Gpops (Dec 20, 2008)

> Don,
> Is that "Gpops" as in Grandpa? I m just "Pops" to mine. I don t know how I acquired the handle but one day I was "Pops" and it stuck.
> 
> Greg
> ...


Hi Greg,

Yes, I acquired the name Pops the same way with my three kids. It then became Gpops and just this last Jan it progressed to GGpops.

Good luck with the upcoming build. Hope" SWMBO" plans on lots of dust and disruption.

Don


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## ghanson (Feb 8, 2015)

"GGPops"! Wow, congratulations on the multiple generations!

Greg


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

If you already have a compressor, it's hard to beat the little purple HF guns.. right now they are on sale and with a 20% off coupon you can pick them up for about $11 a piece. I get excellent results spraying oil based enamels with them and have had good results with latex as well.

Cheers,
Brad


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## ghanson (Feb 8, 2015)

No compressor besides a pancake-type which powers a nail gun. The SCFM is good enough to pop in some nails but nowhere near enough to paint. That is why I'm looking at a turbine system, plus it gives me some portability since bathroom and kitchen cabinets may be in my future.


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## ghanson (Feb 8, 2015)

Follow-up:
I bought the Fuji Mini-Mite 4 with the G-XPC gun. I added 1.0mm and 1.8mm aircaps to the standard 1.4mm that comes with the gun.
On the advice of a professional painter friend I also purchased the 3M PPS system. (He said it will make my life better.)

The turbine and gun arrived this week. The PPS should be here within the next few days. Of course, it's 26F in my garage so I don't believe I'll be doing my test sprays with the gun this weekend!

My thanks for all of the help from the members of the board. I'll be sure to post project reports and pictures as I progress in the craft.


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## ijpdesign (Oct 13, 2015)

GregH-
how do you like your Fuji Mini-Mite. I am in the process of narrowing down my choices and may be going with the Apollo 5 stage. What, in the end made you choose the Fuji? How does it spray for you? Is it spraying everything you run through it, has it had any hiccups with running anything?
Thanks for your thread.


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## ghanson (Feb 8, 2015)

I love the Fuji! It is a gigantic upgrade from the 2-turbine Campbell Hausfeld I had before.
The Fuji G-XPC gun is all stainless steel and the Mini-Mite turbine is very strong. The system laid down beautiful coats with water-based paints. Be sure to thin properly then adjust the gun for the viscosity. 
Price point is comparable if you're looking at 4-turbine systems. The 5-turbine Apollo jumps about 65% for that extra turbine.
I chose the Fuji because some skilled woodworkers/refinishers I know told me to get it. I am a hobbyist but like to do a good job and they basically said, "Quit looking, buy the Fuji." I took their advice and am happy I did.
Let me put a plug in for the 3M PPS, too. Paint goes into a plastic sleeve which goes into a pressurized paint cup. You can spray at any angle (including upside-down) without loss of pressure or consistency. At cleanup you simply toss the plastic sleeve and run water through the stainless steel gun. It took me about 2 minutes to have the gun completely clean and ready to put away. No scrubbing, scraping or cussing! I might like the PPS even better than the Fuji.

Let us know what you choose.

Greg


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## Steamboat_Willie (Jan 20, 2013)

I purchased the Fuji Mini-Mite 4 (gravity cup version) with hopes of using it for a lot of latex spraying. (Hardly an inexpensive purchase!) But after much frustration and giving it a good try, I wound up returning it to the mfg. I'm sure that there are others here who may have good success shooting latex, but I didn't. After numerous conversations with their factory tech support folks and the dealer, here's what I learned and experienced.

~ HLVP and latex paint was not for me.

~ Every latex paint mfg's paint behaves differently. Thinning and gun adjustment that works for one could be very different for another.

~ It seemed like I just wasted what I felt was too much paint trying to figure how what the proper paint-to-water mix ratio was for a particular brand of latex paint, i.e. 10%, 20%, 30%. I'd start a project with a full quart of paint and probably could waste 40% of the can by the time I was done trying to mix it appropriately. That wasn't always the case. But that did happen. If I'd mix up a batch of paint and it didn't shoot well I'd throw it away and go back two or three times trying to figure out which ratio might work.

~ The factory rep advised me that I should NEVER add Floetrol. They said that Floetrol may be appropriate and work well for a latex brushing application but not good with HVLP. They said that only water (distilled) should be used. Apparently the Floetrol thickens the paint and thus is working against the thinning that you're trying to achieve with the water. Sounded reasonable to me but what do I know …

~ One time I REALLY went for the thinning gusto and probably thinned a good 35%+ (???). Now THAT was interesting. I quickly learned that you could thin too much.

~ As I would shoot the latex I just couldn't get that smooth "Rustoleum-rattle-can" slick spray finish that I was trying to achieve. Granted that's two different types of paint. But a nice and smooth finish was what I was aiming to achieve. During one unsuccessful spraying attempt I encountered paint drips emerging from the spray nozzle. (that was fun!)

~ Whenever I was spraying something, I found myself somewhat distracted with, what seemed like, a constant "fiddling" with the needle adjustment and spray pattern knob merely trying to get an acceptable spray application. I made every effort to make sure that the gun was appropriately cleaned after using it. But good cleaning didn't help.

~ I found that most often the distance that I had to hold the spray nozzle from the work piece was about 3 inches, NOT the 8 inches that I've seen others mention.

Thus I gave up and threw in the towel. It didn't work for me. that's just my two cents.

Ed


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## ghanson (Feb 8, 2015)

I had a better experience shooting latex. I used water as the thinner and probably had to go 15% to get the right consistency. I believe the paint was from Sherwin Williams and the guy at the store said the same thing about Floetrol in an HVLP.
I have to say that the paint laid down very smooth and only required very light sanding between coats.

I wonder if your spray gun was defective because mine did not require much fiddling and once dialed-in it would spray with a consistent pattern.

Sorry to hear of the trouble. What did you end up replacing it with?

Greg


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## GregD (Oct 24, 2009)

I also had good results spraying SW interior trim paint with my HVLP (Earlex 6900). I thinned with water to get the viscosity in the range acceptable for the gun. I adjusted the gun so that the flow of paint was just enough to get a consistent pattern at 3 or 4 inches between nozzle and target. I then moved the gun very slowly and/or used multiple passes to build up the coat of paint just until it looked wet. I am not very experienced so I get my best results when I go slow.

I imagine the paint with primer products have a heavier body and would spray differently.


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