# pre-carter student



## daddywoofdawg (Feb 1, 2014)

I was in school before jimmy carter tried to make the us metric,but do to the internet I'm finding more metric measurements;So I'm going to get a tape with metric on it.
Here is my question,In the photo is the big red numbers on the bottom MM or CM? ,is the small marks on the bottom then one MM each?


----------



## lateralus819 (Mar 24, 2013)

The large numbers are CM yes. The small dashes are MM.


----------



## johnstoneb (Jun 14, 2012)

there are 10 mm to a cm. The numbers are centimeters.
The metric system is based on tens
1000 mm to a meter
10mm to a cm
100 cm to a meter
A rough conversion approximately 2.5 cm to an inch.


----------



## MarcusM (Mar 29, 2010)

The red is CM, the black is MM.


----------



## Texcaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Most of the trades in Australia work in mm. and / or metres, cm. are not used.

Ex : a kitchen benchtop is 900mm high, a passage door is 2100mm or 2.1m. high. Dual metric / imperial tapes can't be read from both sides. Timber is sold by the cube or M3

My wife used to be in the rag trade, she works in cm. We have a hard time communicating sometimes.


----------



## KeithP (Jan 4, 2015)

Yes. Big red numbers are centimeters (cm), each small rule mark is a millimeter (mm).

The conversion rate is 2.54 cm:inch, aka 25.4mm:inch.


----------



## JoeinGa (Nov 26, 2012)

So daddywoofdawg … Next time you're calling out cutting measurements to somebody, you can holler
* "Hey! Cut the next one 600 centimeters plus 4 of the little tiny marks!" *


----------



## Beams37 (Feb 21, 2015)

As a vet, I learned a lot about the metric system in the military. I know this isn't what you asked, but it is an amazingly easy system of measurement.

On a side note, where did you get the tape with both? I like that!


----------



## Yonak (Mar 27, 2014)

..Now, if only we could somehow get to a base 12 number system all would be rosy.


----------



## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Years ago (before I got into woodworking), I opposed switching to the metric system.

Now I wish we had!


----------



## kaerlighedsbamsen (Sep 16, 2013)

For the qurious here some more information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metre


----------



## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

From an Australian point of view.

The metric system (SI) was a great idea and upon its introduction cm were not prefered values.
However obviously nobody tried selling that or maybe even asking/telling that to the textile industry and "other" trades.

Once the metric system was introduced commissioned and set to work the board was disbanded and hence the cm were no longer a non prefered sub unit.

The USA being the USA did their own thing, and I guess will always do so (no ill intent infered here by the way)

I use the metric system in preference to the imperial system but have to by way of necessity and need of accuracy to be able to relate to both.

When I did my Engineering Metrology certificate it was all in metric however historicial measurements like the cubit, foot and inch etc were part of the course.

When you study atomic clocks and interferometry in measurement it all falls into place, you just have to keep your wits about you.

As for tape measures well they are back to front as well, we by way of convention read left to right, but try measuring that way!!

If you think thats all too confusing just wait until the introduction of metric time!

I think I hear my Table Saw calling !!


----------



## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

I was in first grade after JC. So of course they taught standard and metric side by side. My dad almost killed me when I said something about a 16mm wrench. Because of the side by side learning I always thought of a cm as about a half inch. Thanks public education, you're a bunch of jack holes. Yes, haha, I married a teacher. Yes, haha, she thinks quite the same as me.


----------



## BubbaIBA (Nov 23, 2011)

Several years ago I converted my shop from imperial to metric. It was one of the smartest moves I've made in my shop. Measurement mistakes seldom happen when working metric and once you are use to thinking in metric there is much less time spent butt scratching and re-measuring.

The "yellow" FastCap ProCarpenter 16' tape is Metric/Standard (FastCap's term). It is a very good tape and can be handy during the transition from thinking imperial to thinking metric.


----------



## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

Order your measuring tools from Canada,the funny thing is I order all my rules from the US , I like both sides in imperial system not half in cm and half in inches.


----------



## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

I was totally turned off by this thread when you mentioned Jimmy Carter. What a total waste. Thankfully Ronald Reagan saved the country till Obama came on the scene.


----------



## bbasiaga (Dec 8, 2012)

> The red is CM, the black is MM.
> 
> - MarcusM


No. 25.4mm to an inch. The small black lines are MM, but the visible black numbers are CM. Theyy are red every 10 just like the inches are red every 12.

-Brian


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

I've always been in favor of thirteen 28 day months. Makes it nice and neat. Payday twice a month. Throw the extra day in during the summer and declare it the odd number holiday.


----------



## PaulHWood (Mar 26, 2012)

> The red is CM, the black is MM.
> 
> - MarcusM
> 
> ...


What he said, all the numbers are cm, the small hash marks are mm


----------



## Texcaster (Oct 26, 2013)

> So daddywoofdawg … Next time you re calling out cutting measurements to somebody, you can holler
> * "Hey! Cut the next one 600 centimeters plus 4 of the little tiny marks!" *
> 
> - JoeinGa


That would be 6.004 m or 6004mm


----------



## Yonak (Mar 27, 2014)

> I've always been in favor of thirteen 28 day months. Makes it nice and neat. Payday twice a month. Throw the extra day in during the summer and declare it the odd number holiday.
> 
> - DKV


Yes, this way the first of the month is always on the same day of the week just like every other day.

Unfortunately, the year couldn't be divided evenly by month.


----------



## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

I used to work for a newspaper chain that operated on a 13 'period' calendar, with 28 days in each of the 13 periods. Took a little getting used to, but it actually worked pretty well.


----------



## BubbaIBA (Nov 23, 2011)

> So daddywoofdawg … Next time you re calling out cutting measurements to somebody, you can holler
> * "Hey! Cut the next one 600 centimeters plus 4 of the little tiny marks!" *
> 
> - JoeinGa
> ...


That would be a pretty long board. I haven't made too many 6M cuts in my life.


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> I was in first grade after JC. So of course they taught standard and metric side by side. My dad almost killed me when I said something about a 16mm wrench. Because of the side by side learning I always thought of a cm as about a half inch. Thanks public education, you re a bunch of jack holes. Yes, haha, I married a teacher. Yes, haha, she thinks quite the same as me.
> 
> - SirIrb


Nothing wrong with saying a cm is about half an inch, just like saying a meter is about a yard. That is a soft conversion. You wouldn't mark something out that way, you would actually use a metric ruler wouldn't you?

Hmmm, if that idiot RayGun hadn't dismantled everything Carter did, we would probably be using metric exclusively instead of self converting as he predicted (Hmmm a RayGun prediction that didn't come true, how surprising) and we would all have solar panels.


----------



## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

That comparison was for the OP's question of which marks are MM or CM.

Personally I hate the Metric system. As an undegreed engineer I face friends all day who are metric gung ho. Thats cool. It got them through school.

I like to Reductio ad absurdum the metric system when the conversation comes up.

If metric then why not:
Metric angles? You know, 100 degrees with 100 divisions there in.
Metric time? 100 hours and 10 minutes and 10 seconds or some such.
Metric calendar? 10 months with 100 days and…you get the idea.
A metric Bible? 100 books with 100 chapters and 100 verses. Who cares if the now shortest verse is "I"?

I get it. Broken down in 100's and 10's. I work in thousands all day long. But i wont change*.


when the highest bidder (job) is metric i will change. I will go kicking and screaming.

Per the whole metric argument:
To me it is totally irrelevant that there are three countries that are still imperial, and the other two are 3rd world. Thats like saying "Mom, all the kids started smoking, why cant I?" I like to see some logic behind the decision. Not to mention, and this is the biggest, why would one want such a thing as measure mandated by gvt? Let the market decide. Ah, yes, the best answer to all the problems. If vendors cant deal with a company because the company is metric then go metric. It is for that company to decide. If this is for your shop then make the decision based on who will make you the most money. If measurement mistakes are cut in half because you went metric then it is a good idea. If it is easier for you, do it.

As for me and my shop, we will use feet and inches.



> I was in first grade after JC. So of course they taught standard and metric side by side. My dad almost killed me when I said something about a 16mm wrench. Because of the side by side learning I always thought of a cm as about a half inch. Thanks public education, you re a bunch of jack holes. Yes, haha, I married a teacher. Yes, haha, she thinks quite the same as me.
> 
> - SirIrb
> 
> ...


----------



## Yonak (Mar 27, 2014)

> ...why not:
> 
> Metric angles? You know, 100 degrees with 100 divisions there in.
> Metric time? 100 hours and 10 minutes and 10 seconds or some such.
> ...


Now you're speaking my language .. all base 12. Consider, 12 is divisible evenly by 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 12. That can't be said about base 10. ..But enough of my pie-in-the-sky ramblings. It could never happen if we can't even get on the same page as the rest of the world with metric. If only we had been born with 12 fingers . . .


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

There are many costs for companies associated with conversions to and from metric. Assuming they do it correctly of course. Those would go away if we fully converted.

Metric angles and time would be great. Our current system comes from the Sumerians, yup we use a system developed in what is now Iraq. I mean who cares if it is 4,000 years old and needs a periodic fudge factor.

I bet our official weights and measures are based on metric. A foot is probably defined as so many cms or mms.

I'm sorry you never finished school, perhaps you would see the benefits of SI if you had. Is thousandth of an inch really an imperial unit? Sounds decimal based.

If smoking didn't hurt you and it allowed you to use the same intelligent measurements as the rest of the kids then that is a good comparison, otherwise it is stupid to compare smoking and SI.


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> ...why not:
> 
> Metric angles? You know, 100 degrees with 100 divisions there in.
> Metric time? 100 hours and 10 minutes and 10 seconds or some such.
> ...


Interesting, you would want to use a 1/3 of a minute or 1/6 of a degree?


----------



## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

The comment about Reagan begs for clarification.

From The United States and the Metric System, NIST LC 1136: "The efforts of the Metric Board were largely ignored by the American public, and, in 1981, the Board reported to Congress that it lacked the clear Congressional mandate necessary to bring about national conversion. Due to this apparent ineffectiveness, and in an effort [by President Reagan] to reduce Federal spending, the Metric Board was disestablished in the fall of 1982."

Let's stay on point and leave politics out of the discussion.


----------



## Yonak (Mar 27, 2014)

> Interesting, you would want to use a 1/3 of a minute or 1/6 of a degree?
> 
> - RobS888


How about 1/3 of an hour (20 minutes) or 1/6 of a circle (60°) ? ..But if you were, indeed, needing the smaller measurements, they work out quite evenly, as well.


----------



## bbasiaga (Dec 8, 2012)

I once worked for a company that measured the density of its product in KG/gal.

It was like fusion cusine I guess.

-Brian


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> I was in first grade after JC. So of course they taught standard and metric side by side. My dad almost killed me when I said something about a 16mm wrench. Because of the side by side learning I always thought of a cm as about a half inch. Thanks public education, you re a bunch of jack holes. Yes, haha, I married a teacher. Yes, haha, she thinks quite the same as me.
> 
> - SirIrb





> The comment about Reagan begs for clarification.
> 
> From The United States and the Metric System, NIST LC 1136: "The efforts of the Metric Board were largely ignored by the American public, and, in 1981, the Board reported to Congress that it lacked the clear Congressional mandate necessary to bring about national conversion. Due to this apparent ineffectiveness, and in an effort [by President Reagan] to reduce Federal spending, the Metric Board was disestablished in the fall of 1982."
> 
> ...


I think RayGun ending it is important. If we had put an effort into going metric even those of us that didn't get taught it in school would have been immersed in it for decades now, thus helping the OP. Getting to dis RayGun is just a benefit for me.


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Interesting, you would want to use a 1/3 of a minute or 1/6 of a degree?
> 
> - RobS888
> 
> ...


Have you tried expainng degrees, minutes, seconds to anyone? We use decimal degrees for most GIS stuff now because it is easier to understand and work with. 34.4576 is easier than 34 degrees, 34 min, 45 seconds.

All base 60 needs to be thrown out.


----------



## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

I am not sure if this is in response to me. Sounds like it.
Thou of an inch-with inch being the main word here-yes, it is imperial. Maybe i am missing something but just because one breaks an imperial unit into base 10, 100 or 1000 does not convert it to metric.

I am able to do a fine job at work and at home sans metric. But thanks for the sentiment. So far I believe I am better off not having wasted the years and going in debt. While many were drinking and trying to learning while accumulating tons of debt, I made cash. Sucks to be them.

A perfect analogy is that which the analogy is trying to describe.

Just because something is being done by many is not proof that that same thing should be done by all. Let them choose their own poison.



> There are many costs for companies associated with conversions to and from metric. Assuming they do it correctly of course. Those would go away if we fully converted.
> 
> Metric angles and time would be great. Our current system comes from the Sumerians, yup we use a system developed in what is now Iraq. I mean who cares if it is 4,000 years old and needs a periodic fudge factor.
> 
> ...


----------



## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

> I think RayGun ending it is important. If we had put an effort into going metric even those of us that didn t get taught it in school would have been immersed in it for decades now, thus helping the OP. Getting to dis RayGun is just a benefit for me.


Whatever floats your boat. The United States Metric Board (USMB) was created in 1975 during the Ford administration. Congress (controlled by the Democrats) did little to advance metrification, which made the USMB largely ineffective, and an easy target for federal spending reductions.


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> I think RayGun ending it is important. If we had put an effort into going metric even those of us that didn t get taught it in school would have been immersed in it for decades now, thus helping the OP. Getting to dis RayGun is just a benefit for me.
> 
> Whatever floats your boat. The United States Metric Board (USMB) was created in 1975 during the Ford administration. Congress (controlled by the Democrats) did little to advance metrification, which made the USMB largely ineffective, and an easy target for federal spending reductions.
> 
> - TheDane


So nothing happened between Ford and RayGun? You have noted the founding and the ending. What of the Carter years?


----------



## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

> What of the Carter years?


Who controlled Congress during Carter's administration, and who did Carter appoint to the USMB?

In the July-August 1980 USMA Newsletter, editor and President Emeritus Louis F. Sokol wrote:

"The diverse makeup of the Board and the weakness of the Metric Conversion Act contribute to the Board's inability to exercise the type of leadership which knowledgeable, progressive people expect. The Board in action has all the outward appearances of a debating society. The blame for this to a great extent falls on President Carter, whose staff, for political reasons, appointed several known obstructionists and persons with little if any prior knowledge of metrication."

This is getting tiresome … I'm out.


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> I am not sure if this is in response to me. Sounds like it.
> Thou of an inch-with inch being the main word here-yes, it is imperial. Maybe i am missing something but just because one breaks an imperial unit into base 10, 100 or 1000 does not convert it to metric.
> 
> I am able to do a fine job at work and at home sans metric. But thanks for the sentiment. So far I believe I am better off not having wasted the years and going in debt. While many were drinking and trying to learning while accumulating tons of debt, I made cash. Sucks to be them.
> ...


SI came about as an attempt to decimalize measurements. The fact that you use thousands of an inch shows the imperial system isn't good enough. Why don't you use 
256ths, 512ths, or 1024ths? That is just silly to use 1,000s when you have 1024ths right there for you to use.

A little history for you: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_metric_system

Are you sure you understand what an analogy is?

When it comes to an antiquated difficult to use system everyone using a new system is better. A gallon is different in different countries, a foot is different in different countries. A meter is always the same length.


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> What of the Carter years?
> 
> Who controlled Congress during Carter s administration, and who did Carter appoint to the USMB?
> 
> ...


This is a dumb argument since RayGun could have helped, but cut the funding instead. I wonder if he did that before or after taking down the White House solar panels? Just more bad crap RayGun did to us.


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> What of the Carter years?
> 
> Who controlled Congress during Carter s administration, and who did Carter appoint to the USMB?
> 
> ...


The Dane,

I'm sorry if that came out wrong. I meant the topic was dumb not anything you said.

I have a lot of respect for you and your opinion.


----------



## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Metric was the ultimate french "pecker measuring"

They devised the meter to be Just a little longer than the "english" Yard.

Sure distances in units of 10 seems easier.

However there is nothing "magically more accurate" about Celsius vs. Farenheit either.

Saying 'Triple digit temps' when it hits 100F, is classier than saying 38 degrees…. I'm burning up!


----------



## Woodbum (Jan 3, 2010)

Thanks for sharing that bit of trivial and inconsequential insight there Bob. The thread was about metric and imperial measurements, not political drivel.


----------



## Texcaster (Oct 26, 2013)

However there is nothing "magically more accurate" about Celsius vs. Farenheit either.

Saying Triple digit temps when it hits 100F, is classier than saying 38 degrees…. I m burning up!

- DrDirt
[/QUOTE]

28c = 82f, my favorite temp.

When trying to explain our climate to the folks back home, the penny doesn't drop until we tell them we don't have a heater.


----------



## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

My concern with using metric measurements in woodworking is that it is all based on 10, the most common number of human fingers. If you apply Murphy's Law here, ...


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

Metric was the ultimate french "pecker measuring"

They devised the meter to be Just a little longer than the "english" Yard.

*1/10,000,000th of the distance from the North Pole to the equator was contrived to be just a little bigger?*

Sure distances in units of 10 seems easier.

*Not seems, is easier! From a micron to kilometre*

However there is nothing "magically more accurate" about Celsius vs. Farenheit either.

*Yes, zero is based on the freezing point of fresh water and 100 is the boiling point of fresh water. Not blood.*

Saying Triple digit temps when it hits 100F, is classier than saying 38 degrees…. I m burning up!

*Reminds me of a song " the Eastern desert lives and breathes at 45 degrees"

You can get used to it.

SI is amazing! take a cubic centimetre of water it weighs 1 gram, heat it up 1 degree takes 1 calorie, 1 cubic liter of water weighs 1 kilogram. Scale up, scale down. Perfection!**

Bold are my comments

RobS888


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Thanks for sharing that bit of trivial and inconsequential insight there Bob. The thread was about metric and imperial measurements, not political drivel.
> 
> - Woodbum


Still is about metric and how the application of it got derailed. Have a nice day.


----------



## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

> However there is nothing "magically more accurate" about Celsius vs. Farenheit either.
> 
> *Yes, zero is based on the freezing point of fresh water and 100 is the boiling point of fresh water. Not blood.*
> 
> ...


So what is more "accurate" 212 F or 100 C…...answer NEITHER.
They are just temperature scales.

Suppose we should have gone for Kelvin… so that 0K is "Absolute 0"

then we can have water freeze at 273.16

At the end of the day Metric was about "Standardization" and not Accuracy nor a "Better system".

It really is what you are accustomed to.
Being in Engineering requires me to convert back and forth…It is not unlike learning another language.


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> However there is nothing "magically more accurate" about Celsius vs. Farenheit either.
> 
> *Yes, zero is based on the freezing point of fresh water and 100 is the boiling point of fresh water. Not blood.*
> 
> ...


5 degrees C sounds more accurate than 37 F to describe a cold day. Kelvin is an extension of the Celsius scale.

Is standardization a bad thing? I bet if ego was taken out of it we would have been metric in the 1840s.


----------



## daddywoofdawg (Feb 1, 2014)

so if I'm reading a plan that say's make a mark at 90mm. do I go to the red 90 on the tape or where is that on the tape.
If we had been taught Metric well,we talked about it for maybe 2 days in math class,I understand some conversion,but reading the tape,I'm not sure what I'm looking at.blk numbers are 10's of mm, and red numbers are 100's of mm?


----------



## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

> 5 degrees C sounds more accurate than 37 F to describe a cold day. Kelvin is an extension of the Celsius scale.
> 
> Is standardization a bad thing? I bet if ego was taken out of it we would have been metric in the 1840s.
> 
> - RobS888


That is because the "SIZE" of the degrees is different.
*
5C is NOT 37F*

5C is actually 41F.

Both methods are ACCURATE… Personally I find the Celsius scale a bit too Coarse for things like thermostat settings.

Moving 1 degrees on the celsius scale is the same change as moving 1.8 degrees on the Farenheit scale.

I would rather shift from 74 to 75 for running the AC, than 23.333 to 23.88 degrees
Such a coarse scale is a PITA

If you run a 10K… you could just as ACCURATELY say you ran 6.2 miles.
Both are a measure of distance.
one is no more accurate than the other.

BTW in the 1840's and the years leading up to the civil war…. we could give a rats behind about going metric, there were much more important issues, than whether we still used the kings measurement systems. It took the french until after teh French revolution in 1789 before they decided to 'clean up' the system of miles, hands, stones, etc for measurement.

So I Doubt we would have adopted this 50 years before the french did. (The Meter…. was created as a basis unit in 1791)


----------



## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> so if I m reading a plan that say s make a mark at 90mm. do I go to the red 90 on the tape or where is that on the tape.
> If we had been taught Metric well,we talked about it for maybe 2 days in math class,I understand some conversion,but reading the tape,I m not sure what I m looking at.blk numbers are 10 s of mm, and red numbers are 100 s of mm?
> 
> - daddywoofdawg


The scale is CM, and 1 CM = 10 MM - the red 90 would be 90cm, or 900mm

if you wanted 90mm, which is 9cm, you would mark it at the first number 9 on the tape. The red numbers are just so the scale doesn't have to show multiple digits… Similar to how a regular tape shows the feet in red and inches in black (although, it does hit double digits for 10 and 11 inches). On the one above, the first 1-9 is 1-9 (cm), then you get 10, then the 1-9 is 11-19, then you get to 20, then the 1-9 is 21-29 until you get to the 30, and so on.

*I would rather shift from 74 to 75 for running the AC, than 23.333 to 23.88 degrees
Such a coarse scale is a PITA*

It could be made finer with the addition of a single decimal… 23.3 to 23.8 gives better granularity than 74 to 75. Of course, you could also do the same with Fahrenheit.  Either way, it doesn't seem that big a deal to me, and I would get used to either one pretty easily. Just saying.

Cheers,
Brad


----------



## daddywoofdawg (Feb 1, 2014)

so each blk tic is a mm or CM? trying to learn.I'm thinking if I can figure out how to read a metric tape,I can buy one and save my self some math.


----------



## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

The numbers are cm, so the divisions between them are mm… 10 mm = 1 cm.

Cheers,
Brad


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> That is because the "SIZE" of the degrees is different.
> *
> 5C is NOT 37F*
> 
> ...


Some of your dates seem a bit confused. A little history got you…
The United States government acquired copies of the French metre and kilogram for reference purposes in 1805 and 1820 respectively. In 1866 the United States Congress passed a bill making it lawful to use the metric system in the United States. The bill, which was permissive rather than mandatory in nature, defined the metric system in terms of customary units rather than with reference to the international prototype metre and kilogram.[87][88]:10-13 By 1893, the reference standards for customary units had become unreliable. Moreover, the United States, being a signatory of the Metre Convention was in possession of national prototype metres and kilograms that were calibrated against those in use elsewhere in the world. This led to the Mendenhall Order which redefined the customary units by referring to the national metric prototypes, but used the conversion factors of the 1866 act.

I don't understand why the US couldn't adopt the metric system in the 1840s if they had the units in 1805. As I suspected since 1893 we have maintained our units based on metric units. How silly is that?


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> *I would rather shift from 74 to 75 for running the AC, than 23.333 to 23.88 degrees
> Such a coarse scale is a PITA*
> 
> It could be made finer with the addition of a single decimal… 23.3 to 23.8 gives better granularity than 74 to 75. Of course, you could also do the same with Fahrenheit. Either way, it doesn t seem that big a deal to me, and I would get used to either one pretty easily. Just saying.
> ...


He knows that, he just wants to argue.


----------



## BJODay (Jan 29, 2013)

I used to work in the printing trade. 12 points to a pica, 6 picas to the inch. Archaic?, yes but it is divisible by three. Good page design is laid out in thirds, sixths and twelfths.

I had to scale image enlargements. "Desired size" / "Actual size" = "Percent enlargement/reduction".
1.5" / 3.0" = 200% enlargement. Now try
17.625" / 1.1875" = lots of squinting and errors reading the decimal conversion table.
448 / 30 = 1493%, easier, fewer measuring mistakes, no need to use a decimal chart.

I like the metric system but I have been too chicken to convert my woodworking over to metric.
BJ


----------



## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

> *I would rather shift from 74 to 75 for running the AC, than 23.333 to 23.88 degrees
> Such a coarse scale is a PITA*
> 
> It could be made finer with the addition of a single decimal… 23.3 to 23.8 gives better granularity than 74 to 75. Of course, you could also do the same with Fahrenheit. Either way, it doesn t seem that big a deal to me, and I would get used to either one pretty easily. Just saying.
> ...


But if you want to start using fractional degrees to talk about weather or Thermostats… then how is Celsius so Awesome, other than it is some standardized Scale.

Why is 23.3->23.8 BETTER than 74->75?

Of course no Rational person argues that one system is more ACCURATE…. except Rob.

But part of the whole discussion was how we need these base 10 units, so that we convert from cm to mm or to Meters…. e.g. 11 mm , not 1.1cm.

If we then "Need" fractional/decimal degrees as a way to "Make the system simpler" that really doesn't work

Nor am I more accurate to say you head north 10 miles on Interstate 5, or if you instead say it is 16.1 km

They are just Units… one version is really no better than another.


----------



## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

Gee guys, it's just a simple linear conversion. It doesn't matter either way.

... and there are 400 gradians in a circle, if you didn't know about that.

I personally, have never seen an angular instrument of any kind marked in gradians, but maybe road-builders use them.

If I were making metric time, it would probably just have 100 hours per day consisting of 1000 seconds (shorter than our current seconds). The year would be 36 ten-day weeks plus a 5(or 6) day holiday. Two days off per week, of course - or maybe keep the 5-day work week and have 5-day weekends. I'm sure it wouldn't work.

You know the Soviets tried to change the calendar in ways like that. In 1929, they went to a 5-day week, changing it to 6 days in 1931, before reverting to a normal 7-day week in 1940.

-Paul


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> *I would rather shift from 74 to 75 for running the AC, than 23.333 to 23.88 degrees
> Such a coarse scale is a PITA*
> 
> It could be made finer with the addition of a single decimal… 23.3 to 23.8 gives better granularity than 74 to 75. Of course, you could also do the same with Fahrenheit. Either way, it doesn t seem that big a deal to me, and I would get used to either one pretty easily. Just saying.
> ...


Really, a version with a realistic basis as in freezing point of water and boiling point of water is unreasonable? You are really reaching now. Why is change so scary to you? You fight any change. Me thinks your mind is closed.


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> I used to work in the printing trade. 12 points to a pica, 6 picas to the inch. Archaic?, yes but it is divisible by three. Good page design is laid out in thirds, sixths and twelfths.
> 
> I had to scale image enlargements. "Desired size" / "Actual size" = "Percent enlargement/reduction".
> 1.5" / 3.0" = 200% enlargement. Now try
> ...


Try it on some shop furniture.


----------



## BubbaIBA (Nov 23, 2011)

Let's say you need to find the mid point of a board that is 5 3/16" wide or in mm 130mm wide. Which is easier and faster?

Or you have legs that are 3 15/16 wide and you want the width of the side to be 19 21/32". How long should the stretcher be? I would venture that finding the length of the stretcher with 100mm legs and and 500mm for the total width would be quicker and less prone to error.

BTW, been down that road, ain't going again. Converting to a metric shop was the best thing I've done and I'm older than dirt, if I can anyone can.

Of course as with all things wood…YMMV.

ken


----------



## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

> Really, a version with a realistic basis as in freezing point of water and boiling point of water is unreasonable? You are really reaching now. Why is change so scary to you? You fight any change. Me thinks your mind is closed.
> 
> - RobS888


Didn't say it was 'unreasonable'
just that the New offers nothing BETTER nor more accurate than the old.

I don't sag my pants half way down my ass cheeks either…. not scared of Change, but not a believer in 'change just for the sake of change' You still haven't shown that Celsius is more ACCURATE.


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Really, a version with a realistic basis as in freezing point of water and boiling point of water is unreasonable? You are really reaching now. Why is change so scary to you? You fight any change. Me thinks your mind is closed.
> 
> - RobS888
> 
> ...


No you said I was unreasonable for saying it is a better, consistent, logical system. I never said it was more accurate. You said it wasn't more accurate. I said it has realistic start and end points. You then went off on many comments that I haven't proven it is more accurate.

Could you prove that the metric system is the "ultimate French pecker measuring"?

You throw lots if statements, but don't discuss anything. Let's go through your complaints 1 by 1.

Just like GregD said, "you are unwilling or unable to have a technically honest discussion". Evidence means nothing to you. When I prove all your points are wrong you run off in a different direction. Let us examine your points 1 at a time if you are capable. I predict you won't because you can't.

Start with the pecker measuring comment.


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Let s say you need to find the mid point of a board that is 5 3/16" wide or in mm 130mm wide. Which is easier and faster?
> 
> Or you have legs that are 3 15/16 wide and you want the width of the side to be 19 21/32". How long should the stretcher be? I would venture that finding the length of the stretcher with 100mm legs and and 500mm for the total width would be quicker and less prone to error.
> 
> ...


I'm glad to see some of us are open minded! I can't decide if it is fear or ego keeps us using a system that the inventors abandoned for being stupid.


----------



## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

My YouTube subscription list includes a number of British and Canadian woodworkers and woodturners. I find it interesting that so many of them use both Imperial and Metric measurements. In most cases, the rulers and tape measures they use are dual standard.

I am actually pretty comfortable with the Metric standard … the problem I have is local availability of metric tools. Metric wrenches are readily available, but finding local sources for Metric drill and router bits is a bit of challenge. I know I could order them online, but I prefer to walk into my local hardware store or home center and pick up what I need.


----------



## DavidinGeorgia (Aug 2, 2014)

> "I don't plan to ever really grow up … I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"
> 
> - Gerry


Lol .. if only the parents in our local restaurants would see it that way with their kids.


----------



## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Hmmm - - never argued accuracy? Lets look at your comment #46


> However there is nothing "magically more accurate" about Celsius vs. Farenheit either.
> 
> *Yes, zero is based on the freezing point of fresh water and 100 is the boiling point of fresh water. Not blood.*
> 
> ...


Or your comment 47…


> 5 degrees C sounds more* accurate than 37 F* to describe a cold day. Kelvin is an extension of the Celsius scale.
> 
> Is standardization a bad thing? I bet if ego was taken out of it we would have been metric in the 1840s.
> 
> - RobS888


... Just here to help your selective memory

Bubba makes a good analogy, but the same could be said…
If I have a board that is 12 inches wide and I want to rip it in half…. is it really harder to measure 12 inches than 30.5 mm
We can always pick odd measurements to make life more difficult.

Argument is that it doesn't really offer much.
distances are not so bad.. but I am not a celsius fan.


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> My YouTube subscription list includes a number of British and Canadian woodworkers and woodturners. I find it interesting that so many of them use both Imperial and Metric measurements. In most cases, the rulers and tape measures they use are dual standard.
> 
> I am actually pretty comfortable with the Metric standard … the problem I have is local availability of metric tools. Metric wrenches are readily available, but finding local sources for Metric drill and router bits is a bit of challenge. I know I could order them online, but I prefer to walk into my local hardware store or home center and pick up what I need.
> 
> - TheDane


This is a blog entry from the great site TheEnglishWoodworker.com his wife blogged about learning to use imperial measurements like her husband uses. The thing that jumps out to me is that when she talks about how much easier it is to use imperial because the larger numbers jump off the tape…

Long distances can be read simply with the bold and continuous markings of both inch and feet and if accuracy is required every 1/16″ is also noted. Finding 49″ inches or 4′ 1″ on that tape certainly jumps out much clearer and quicker than searching for 1.24m, 124cm or 1240mm.

Well sure the measuring tape is really an imperial tape with the bottom third devoted to metric. If it was the other way around, the metric would be easier to follow. 1/16 is 1 1/2 mm, so they allow more accuracy than 16ths.

http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/metric-vs-imperial/










I think the first tape is very easy to read.


----------



## BubbaIBA (Nov 23, 2011)

> My YouTube subscription list includes a number of British and Canadian woodworkers and woodturners. I find it interesting that so many of them use both Imperial and Metric measurements. In most cases, the rulers and tape measures they use are dual standard.
> 
> I am actually pretty comfortable with the Metric standard … the problem I have is local availability of metric tools. Metric wrenches are readily available, but finding local sources for Metric drill and router bits is a bit of challenge. I know I could order them online, but I prefer to walk into my local hardware store or home center and pick up what I need.
> 
> - TheDane


I do not find working with mixed tool a problem, but then I use hand tools not powered router and such. My chisels are a mix of English and Japanese, it really doesn't matter if a mortise is 1/2" or 13mm you will set your marking gauge to match the chisel for sawing the tenon. I can think of no time having a mix of imperial and metric tools have been a problem.

Ken


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Hmmm - - never argued accuracy? Lets look at your comment #46
> 
> However there is nothing "magically more accurate" about Celsius vs. Farenheit either.
> 
> ...


I never brought it up or claimed it was a more accurate system, just that 5 seems more accurate than 37 on a cold day.

Still pulling out that one thing you think you can score points on, how about backing up some of your insane assertions? Start with the French pecker measuring. Stick with the discussion or admit you can't.

I'm still trying to understand your goofy time-line about why we couldn't go metric in the 1840s.

EDIT:

Why would you have a 12 inch board to cut in half? If it was all metric it would be a nice even number close to that size. Soft conversions are a joke.


----------



## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

Pecker measuring aside… neither one is more accurate, but between the two systems of measurement, metric is vastly easier to work with, which was kind of the point, and generally why most of the rest of the world has switched to it. Temperature isn't really a good example, since you rarely do any math on temperatures (why would you want to know how much half of todays temp is?!?). But for length, volume and mass (weight), it makes things so much simpler… Just move a decimal point to convert. Done. Everything else is just simple math that most people learned in elementary school.

Great example… how many of you have one of those 'conversion' charts for cooking hanging somewhere in the kitchen. The ones that tell you how many quarts in a gallon, ounces in a pint, etc… I absolutely hate having to work with those types of measurements and frequently get them wrong because I used the wrong amount of ounces to a quart or something stupid like that. Very non-intuitive and somewhat random measures IMHO. In liters, it would be a snap.

Or - how about ripping that 12 inch board into 7 pieces? Where does 1.714 inches fall on that tape measure? 12 inches = 30.48cm, so 30.48 / 7 = 4.35cm or 43.5mm. Simple and easy to find on the ruler 

Cheers,
Brad


----------



## Yonak (Mar 27, 2014)

> Or - how about ripping that 12 inch board into 7 pieces? Where does 1.714 inches fall on that tape measure? 12 inches = 30.48cm, so 30.48 / 7 = 4.35cm or 43.5mm. Simple and easy to find on the ruler
> 
> - Brad


1.714" is 1-23/32" the way I see it.


----------



## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

Or use a sector and dividers and do no math and use no tape. Just sayin. You know about skinnin the cat.



> Or - how about ripping that 12 inch board into 7 pieces? Where does 1.714 inches fall on that tape measure? 12 inches = 30.48cm, so 30.48 / 7 = 4.35cm or 43.5mm. Simple and easy to find on the ruler
> 
> - Brad
> 
> ...


----------



## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

> http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/metric-vs-imperial/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But I would bet dollars to donuts, that you do not own the first tape…. much as you bloviate how awesome metric is… I bet your tape measures are all in inches.


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Or - how about ripping that 12 inch board into 7 pieces? Where does 1.714 inches fall on that tape measure? 12 inches = 30.48cm, so 30.48 / 7 = 4.35cm or 43.5mm. Simple and easy to find on the ruler
> 
> - Brad
> 
> ...


True, but you used the decimal value Brad provided. What steps would you use to get it? I mean from 12 inches/7 to the fractional amount needed. Also how good are your eyes to see that small 23/32? I'm not sure I can set my saw that accurately.


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/metric-vs-imperial/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So if I show a metric/imperial you will be quiet for a week? No bloviating and vivid examples without facts and running from arguments?


----------



## Yonak (Mar 27, 2014)

> http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/metric-vs-imperial/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where's the mark for studs on center ? ..Or a 4X8 sheet ?


----------



## JeffP (Aug 4, 2014)

I just spent an hour reading this thread…can I get a refund?


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/metric-vs-imperial/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why would you have a 4×8 in metric?


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/metric-vs-imperial/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do we have a bet?


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/metric-vs-imperial/
> 
> I think the first tape is very easy to read.
> 
> ...


If you wait much longer you will whinge that I went to the store.


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

Dr dirt, I'm not surprised you disappeared.










Here is a little metric for you on my 4 month old jet jointer/planer. The callipers are from '88.


----------



## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

> I just spent an hour reading this thread…can I get a refund?
> 
> - JeffP


No, but the next two hours are free.


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> I just spent an hour reading this thread…can I get a refund?
> 
> - JeffP
> 
> ...


Lol! Good one.


----------



## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep, And Kilometers to go before I sleep, And Kilometers to go before I sleep. Robert Frost, "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening" from The Poetry of Robert Frost.Metric version.


----------



## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

> The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep, And Kilometers to go before I sleep, And Kilometers to go before I sleep. Robert Frost, "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening" from The Poetry of Robert Frost.Metric version.
> 
> - distrbd


Those kilometers ruin the meter.


----------



## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

But it's a shorter trip.


----------



## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

I am still looking for a tape measure based on the attoparsec.


----------



## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

I came in on this only now. Looks like lots of trolling in the form of humor, maybe that's just me.

As far as the poetic meter being ruined, Frost would have made it work, had he been introduced to the metric system.

Furlongs per fortnight, ChuckV! 

Neither system is any more "accurate" than the other. If one is used to a set of units, one tends to keep using those same units. I've seen a lot of quibbling; you know who you are.

As with anything, careful study, and in the end, if that doesn't work, careful memorization of the facts and/or conversion factors will help the new knowledge sink in.

You all are using the metric system every time you pay your electric bill- both for the kilo-Watt hours and the money.

Now, I'd be a happy camper if the water bill wasn't made out in hecto (hundreds of)-acre-feet, but was made in steres, instead.

BTW, a centimeter is WAY closer to 3/8" than 1/2".


----------



## Pezking7p (Nov 17, 2013)

So how many perch in a chain?


----------



## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)




----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep, And Kilometers to go before I sleep, And Kilometers to go before I sleep. Robert Frost, "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening" from The Poetry of Robert Frost.Metric version.
> 
> - distrbd
> 
> ...


That is punny! Well done.


----------



## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

"Give em the whole 9 meters." 
"Go the extra Kilometer." 
"1000 Kilometers from nowhere." rewritten by Dwight Yolkham's Brit cousin.

Not even close to the same ring.



> The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep, And Kilometers to go before I sleep, And Kilometers to go before I sleep. Robert Frost, "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening" from The Poetry of Robert Frost.Metric version.
> 
> - distrbd
> 
> ...


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

> so if I m reading a plan that say s make a mark at 90mm. do I go to the red 90 on the tape or where is that on the tape.
> If we had been taught Metric well,we talked about it for maybe 2 days in math class,I understand some conversion,but reading the tape,I m not sure what I m looking at.blk numbers are 10 s of mm, and red numbers are 100 s of mm?
> 
> - daddywoofdawg


Woof, the red tens numbers on your tape are decimeters, or tenths of meters. Nobody used DMs. A millimeter is about a 16th, ten of them make up each of the numbers on the tape; to mark 90mm, go to the black 9, just left of the red 10.

I learned metric in public grade school, not by carter or reagan, but by Mrs. Speicer, as I recall.


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> "Give em the whole 9 meters."
> "Go the extra Kilometer."
> "1000 Kilometers from nowhere." rewritten by Dwight Yolkham s Brit cousin.
> 
> ...


Sure, don't adopt a better, easier system because of cliches.


----------



## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

I swear, give you two centimeters and you take a kilometer.

If you cant take a joke you need help.

I dislike metric because I do. lets be honest here. There are some guys that will always buy chevy because they always have. Some will only buy u.s. made products because that is their bias. Some will only buy PW or Delta because that is their bias. They believe they are better. Sometimes in spite of contradictory evidence. Everyone has them. I just refuse to switch.

And honestly, yes, not dealing in fractions is easier to learn and usually more likely to keep problems from happening as far as the math goes.

But mandate is not the answer. Let me choose what I use and if the market decides that metric is the cool thing to use then I will end up having to use it. Stanley begins to only make metric tapes…I am screwed and start to get all my tapes off ebay or I convert.

Now go drink a meter of beer and relax.



> "Give em the whole 9 meters."
> "Go the extra Kilometer."
> "1000 Kilometers from nowhere." rewritten by Dwight Yolkham s Brit cousin.
> 
> ...


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> I swear, give you two centimeters and you take a kilometer.
> 
> If you cant take a joke you need help.
> 
> ...


Perhaps some indication that you are trying to be funny…

The funny part is your opinion is exactly what I read in your "joke". Nothing above is a surprise, except the fantasy of self metrication.

Mandating is the only way to get people like you and Dr Dirt to change. You seem to fear it for some reason.


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> - Rick M.


I really like that chart!


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> so if I m reading a plan that say s make a mark at 90mm. do I go to the red 90 on the tape or where is that on the tape.
> If we had been taught Metric well,we talked about it for maybe 2 days in math class,I understand some conversion,but reading the tape,I m not sure what I m looking at.blk numbers are 10 s of mm, and red numbers are 100 s of mm?
> 
> - daddywoofdawg
> ...


USAF taught me some metric. We used to use mixed stuff like for every thousand feet of altitude you climbed you lost 2 degrees Celsius.


----------



## upchuck (Nov 3, 2013)

I'm comfortable using either system although celsius still gives me pause unless I can remember the simple conversion a friend taught me (I can't recall it at this moment). I have measuring tools of both systems and a couple with both systems on the same tool like the measuring tape that started this topic.
Either system works. But if you want problems try combining both systems in a single project.
NASA tried that once: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/

"An ounce of prevention is worth 0.0283495kg of cure."


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> I m comfortable using either system although celsius still gives me pause unless I can remember the simple conversion a friend taught me (I can t recall it at this moment). I have measuring tools of both systems and a couple with both systems on the same tool like the measuring tape that started this topic.
> Either system works. But if you want problems try combining both systems in a single project.
> NASA tried that once: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/
> 
> ...


Double the Celsius and add 32, close enough for daily life.


----------



## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

I am glad that there are people like you who are looking out for what is best for me and trying to make decisions / have decisions made for my best interest. It was the same thing that brought about prohibition. Yea you.

Oh wait, I have parents who no longer make my decisions for me. I guess I make my own decisions based on what I think. If I want to use stone to refer to weight then who cares. It is my loss if no one else uses it.

How about this, you mandate the decisions for your life and no one else and I ll do the same. its the simple kindergarten maxim about keeping your hands to your self. Keep your metric to yourself.



> I swear, give you two centimeters and you take a kilometer.
> 
> If you cant take a joke you need help.
> 
> ...


----------



## upchuck (Nov 3, 2013)

> Double the Celsius and add 32, *close enough for daily life. *
> 
> - RobS888


No it is not! I live in AZ. Last week we remembered the historical record hottest day of 25 years ago. It was 50
degrees C. Your math would make that 132 degrees F. The record was 122 degrees. That extra 10 degrees would have killed more people. I spent that day on a concrete slab framing a house. I have 10-12 days of 120 or more in the past 40 years. !0 degrees matters!


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Double the Celsius and add 32, *close enough for daily life. *
> 
> - RobS888
> 
> ...


Ha ha. You realize the formula doesn't actually make it warmer! Right?

If it had been used less people would have been affected since they would have thought it was 10 degrees warmer than it was.


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> I am glad that there are people like you who are looking out for what is best for me and trying to make decisions / have decisions made for my best interest. It was the same thing that brought about prohibition. Yea you.
> 
> Oh wait, I have parents who no longer make my decisions for me. I guess I make my own decisions based on what I think. If I want to use stone to refer to weight then who cares. It is my loss if no one else uses it.
> 
> How about this, you mandate the decisions for your life and no one else and I ll do the same. its the simple kindergarten maxim about keeping your hands to your self. Keep your metric to yourself.


Oh, I see now! It is that… what was it called… Oh yeah, anal-crapitalism stuff again!

Laws don't apply to you, and taxes are theft, we should emulate a tiny country in Italy from the 1400s. That stuff is hysterical! And I mean that in more than one way.

Where do you get off telling me who I can and can't mandate? You aren't my parents. JK (see that last part was a joke, JK stands for just kidding).

You want to live here you have to follow the rules.


----------



## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

And why is your opinion more valid than mine?
See then difference is I dont want to mandate what you do. Based on your previous comments, you want to mandate what I do. Live your life and i ll live mine. Or is it that you cant stand people not doing what you think is best for them? What a good big brother you are.



> I am glad that there are people like you who are looking out for what is best for me and trying to make decisions / have decisions made for my best interest. It was the same thing that brought about prohibition. Yea you.
> 
> Oh wait, I have parents who no longer make my decisions for me. I guess I make my own decisions based on what I think. If I want to use stone to refer to weight then who cares. It is my loss if no one else uses it.
> 
> ...


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> And why is your opinion more valid than mine?
> See then difference is I dont want to mandate what you do. Based on your previous comments, you want to mandate what I do. Live your life and i ll live mine. Or is it that you cant stand people not doing what you think is best for them? What a good big brother you are.
> 
> I am glad that there are people like you who are looking out for what is best for me and trying to make decisions / have decisions made for my best interest. It was the same thing that brought about prohibition. Yea you.
> ...


Look out we're coming for your tape measure! JK (why would we want it)

I don't understand why we don't use metric now. And if it was up to me it would be mandated for commercial enterprises, what you use at home is your business. So stop crying! Whah don't take my ruler, whah.


----------



## daddywoofdawg (Feb 1, 2014)

So on the top rule the 33,34,35,etc is Cm and the black tics are mm? So 33 would be 330 mm?
I thought the U.K started the metric thing since in days of old the sun never sets on the empire.
So why doesn't a metric tape have wall stud markings?Isn't that just a design thing?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

> So on the top rule the 33,34,35,etc is Cm and the black tics are mm? So 33 would be 330 mm?
> I thought enland started the metric thing since in days of old the sun never sets on the empire.
> So why doesn t a metric tape have wall stud markings?Isn t that just a design thing?
> 
> - daddywoofdawg


Yes, that's the markings. Why not wall stud markings on metric tapes? I suppose a 4×8 sheet of drywall, on 16" centers, doesn't exist anywhere else in the world. It's instead on some kind of metric 'norm' that makes metric sense. That's just a guess, as I really don't know or even care to look it up online.


----------



## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

A home business is commercial. In your world would that be mandated?



> And why is your opinion more valid than mine?
> See then difference is I dont want to mandate what you do. Based on your previous comments, you want to mandate what I do. Live your life and i ll live mine. Or is it that you cant stand people not doing what you think is best for them? What a good big brother you are.
> 
> I am glad that there are people like you who are looking out for what is best for me and trying to make decisions / have decisions made for my best interest. It was the same thing that brought about prohibition. Yea you.
> ...


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> So on the top rule the 33,34,35,etc is Cm and the black tics are mm? So 33 would be 330 mm?
> I thought enland started the metric thing since in days of old the sun never sets on the empire.
> So why doesn t a metric tape have wall stud markings?Isn t that just a design thing?
> 
> - daddywoofdawg


Correct, you can just move the decimal to go smaller or larger 330mm is also .33 of a meter or .00033 km. it is much simpler to use.

Does this help? Since there aren't any fractions it is probably the same scale used for everything. (just a guess based on the relatively small number of examples I could find.) Tons of pictures showing how to read imperial.


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> A home business is commercial. In your world would that be mandated?
> 
> And why is your opinion more valid than mine?
> See then difference is I dont want to mandate what you do. Based on your previous comments, you want to mandate what I do. Live your life and i ll live mine. Or is it that you cant stand people not doing what you think is best for them? What a good big brother you are.
> ...


Stop looking for the same fight. You get crunched every time.

This is about how to use metric. Or how great it is.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

It was a question about reading a metric tape measure, not a question about using it or one that asserted how great metric is (or isn't).


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> It was a question about reading a metric tape measure, not a question about using it or one that asserted how great metric is (or isn t).
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Yup, like I said using metric. (reading a metric tape would be a subset of using metric)

The original post was about reading metric. I added the great part, several times.


----------



## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> And if it was up to me it would be mandated for commercial enterprises…


That's absurd. Mandating the use of a measurement system? Really? I can see it now - businesses across the country being raided by the measurement police, destroying all non-compliant measuring tapes in an Eliot Ness fashion, and the uprising of a whole clandestine underground tape measure industry.

This thread has become almost as absurd, complete with pecker measuring and baby talk.

Cheers,
Brad


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> And if it was up to me it would be mandated for commercial enterprises…
> 
> That s absurd. Mandating the use of a measurement system? Really? I can see it now - businesses across the country being raided by the measurement police, destroying all non-compliant measuring tapes in an Eliot Ness fashion, and the uprising of a whole clandestine underground tape measure industry.
> 
> ...


I agree Dr Dirt's pecker measuring comment was the low point!

How else would a country change their measurement system? Voluntary compliance as Reagan termed it, hasn't happened.


----------



## upchuck (Nov 3, 2013)

> Double the Celsius and add 32, *close enough for daily life. *
> 
> - RobS888
> 
> ...


Yes, fully aware that your formula doesn't make the real world temperature change. But 10 degrees off in forecast and daily preparations for spending a working day outside matters in daily life.
chuck


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> Double the Celsius and add 32, *close enough for daily life. *
> 
> - RobS888
> 
> ...


I'm sorry it can't work for you in the summer. It does in most places. You seem to recall that 50 is really hot, so that is a start.

You should use 1.8x C +32 to be exact on those hot days.

We get a 100 degree day every couple years, so it works fine in MD. Today we had a high of 80. That is 26 C. X2=52+32=84. Not too shabby.


----------



## upchuck (Nov 3, 2013)

> I m sorry it can t work for you in the summer. It does in most places. You seem to recall that 50 is really hot, so that is a start.
> 
> You should use 1.8x C +32 to be exact on those hot days.
> 
> ...


RobS888-

No problem. No sweat. I do realize that Phoenix, AZ is on the extreme end of the scale during the summer.
But at the other end of the extreme scale how does your formula work at minus 40 degrees?

chuck


----------



## Yonak (Mar 27, 2014)

> No problem. No sweat ….
> 
> - chuck


Easy for you to say in Arizona, chuck. If it were 122° here in Georgia, I guarantee I'd be sweatin'.


----------



## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

I am not looking for the same fight, you are fighting the same way. 
For instance:
*"How else would a country change their measurement system? Voluntary compliance as Reagan termed it, hasn't happened."*

The obvious option you leave on the table is mandatory compliance. This is because you believe you know what is best. Which leaves you placing yourself in the realm of one who is a all knowing, loving dictator or backing the concept.

If you like and use metric, good. I hope you and the metric system have a happy life together. What I am arguing is you believing that this should be mandated. Why? What if I were to find something that I loved and tried to push it on you by mandate. I am too much a gentleman to do so. That and I keep my nose out of your business. Reciprocate, please.



> A home business is commercial. In your world would that be mandated?
> 
> And why is your opinion more valid than mine?
> See then difference is I dont want to mandate what you do. Based on your previous comments, you want to mandate what I do. Live your life and i ll live mine. Or is it that you cant stand people not doing what you think is best for them? What a good big brother you are.
> ...


----------



## Buckethead (Apr 14, 2013)

> The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep, And Kilometers to go before I sleep, And Kilometers to go before I sleep. Robert Frost, "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening" from The Poetry of Robert Frost.Metric version.
> 
> - distrbd


ZOMG THIS IS THE BEST ARGUMENT FOR IMPERIAL IVE SEEN.

This also in: Decimeters. The red marks indicating 10 centimeters would be called Decimeters. 1/10th of a meter.

I suppose it all boils down to how one defines the word "football".


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> I am not looking for the same fight, you are fighting the same way.
> For instance:
> *"How else would a country change their measurement system? Voluntary compliance as Reagan termed it, hasn't happened."*
> 
> ...


Yup, same argument every time. Whah don't tell me what to do! Whah. Don't make me pay taxes.

If you were really a gentleman you wouldn't keep bringing this silly stuff up. Yet here you are.

You are free to try to get anything mandated you want, just as I'm free to LMAO at you.

Welcome to democracy puppy.


----------



## RobS888 (May 7, 2013)

> I m sorry it can t work for you in the summer. It does in most places. You seem to recall that 50 is really hot, so that is a start.
> 
> You should use 1.8x C +32 to be exact on those hot days.
> 
> ...


No worries chuck, 1.8 x -40 =-72, -72+32 = -40. The quick way would be 2x-40 =-80, -80+32=-48. Very cold anyway you look at it.


----------



## Texcaster (Oct 26, 2013)

"How else would a country change their measurement system? Voluntary compliance as Reagan termed it, hasn't happened."

" You have to wear a hat if you want to be in the band." Steve Earl

I had to change to metric in 1981 when I started working in Australia. It was pretty easy because everyone else was working in metric. At first I used a dual metric / imperial tape but I soon gave that up because I could only use one side of the tape. Knowing the imperial equivalent just wasn't important.


----------



## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

Imperial vs metric is a never ending argument. If you were brought up in the metric system, then he will say metric is easy. If you were brought up in the imperial system, then he will say imperial is easy. I was brought up in the imperial system, but had to work with metrics in my job. No big deal. I have no problem working in either system, but I prefer imperial. One system is not easier over the other. It's just a matter of which system you grew up in.


----------



## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

I have flirted with throwing out my inch based tapes and going all metric but I can't really because there are too many things still measured in inches, like wood which is sold by the sheet (4×8 feet), board foot, or nominal size (2×4 inches). So my main tape is a combination and sometimes I plan in metric and build that way, much simpler.


----------



## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

If we are going to change things, I think we should change our archaic alphabet of 26 letters to a decabet of 10 letters!


----------



## BJODay (Jan 29, 2013)

*Old Novice says, "If we are going to change things, I think we should change our archaic alphabet of 26 letters to a decabet of 10 letters!"*

CL, I LK IT!

BJ


----------



## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

I found it more useful in woodworking to work in Angstroms.
Yes, the numbers get quite large as one angstroms is equal to 0.0000000001 meter or 1.0936132983 e-10 yards!

Forgive my levity as I have just been to an excruciatingly bad exibition of arena football and I am taking it out on this Web site!


----------



## Finn (May 26, 2010)

I think one of the reasons USA did not convert to metric during the Carter years is that if you wanted to buy metric hardware, at that time, the cost was much more than imperial sized nuts and bolts. Paying for change? Or gougers at work?


----------



## cebfish (Jan 15, 2011)

My brain hurts


----------

