# New Woodworker trying to decide path to go in purchasing bench planes



## Gambrell (Mar 3, 2016)

I am wanting to get deeper into the woodworker hobby, and I am at the point where I need hand planes.

I have narrowed down my options to the following:

(1) I could get a Lie Neilson #62 set with 3 blades for $500 and use it for chipping and in place of a #4 and #6 for now until I can afford more.

(2) There is a woodcraft store close-by, so I could purchase a #4 and #6 for about $315 (and purchase some sharpening tools to get it ready for use after I purchase).

(3) I could go on eBay and purchase a #4 and #6 pre-WW2 Stanleys and spend a few hours on each to restore them to use. This would cost about $150.

What do you all think would be the best use of funds? Would the Stanleys be as good once restored as new WoodRivers? Does the x2 cost of LN make it work getting one plane and making due instead of 2 for now?


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Only my opinion, and I am not the hand plane expert a lot of guys are. But the pre war Stanleys are very nice and will do everything you want once the are brought to life (if needed). I've never seen a Woodriver in person, so I'll leave that alone…but a recent review I read didn't favor them at all. The LN is also a very good plane (I have the equivalent Veritas) but you will spend quite a bit more, and still need your sharpening tools. But you left out another option for buying Stanleys: check forums such as these for folks that rehab and put them up for sale (another good one to watch is Woodnet). If you buy from a respected source, you will get a turn key plane that lets you get right to work…and the price may well be much better than what you would pay on e bay.


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## sepeck (Jul 15, 2012)

If you are on a budget, watch the Paul Sellers YouTube channel and his blog posts. Note, I do not agree with all of his philosophy, I do not dispute his having successfully made his living in wood working primarily with hand tools.

He has various videos on sharpening, restoring hand planes, tuning hand planes. His contention is that a refurbished #4 off ebay is fine for starting out and using. 
https://paulsellers.com/
https://www.youtube.com/user/paulsellerswoodwork

There are tons of other resources in the forums for how to do this as well, and as mentioned some members who sell restored planes. Paul has one contention that a #4 can do most of what people need. Having said all this, if I could afford a LN #4, I'd have that but budget and needs must. I am just starting out in playing more with hand tools myself as well. I have a new Stanley Sweetheart #4 that seems to work well but I am still learning how to use it and it seems to have mixed reviews from folks though mine seems fine.

I am glancing at Craigslist and ebay for a Jack Plane now. If I continue down this road, I may well one day save up for the LN stuff. In the meantime play play play.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

You need to hit a few antique store, swap meets or pawn shops. Stanley 3's,4's, & 5's are the most common out there and if you can't dicker for on under $35 you need to find an old horse trader to learn you. A #6 might take a little more work to find but they are not impossible find. ALso find some folks who do yard sales. One of my last planes was #10 rabbit plane, paid $25 for it. Sure it's not real pretty but a little TLC and I'll turn it for well over $100. It can be done, educate yourself, read everything you can find, watch the YouTube video and you'll get enough background to go out there and score those treasures. It's positively addicting.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Between woodriver and Stanley I'd go Stanley.

If you have the money, LN.

That being said. I'd start with the Stanley baileys and learn how to fettle a plane. When you learn how to fettle an older plane into working great for you then a LN will be a breeze.

Regardless of woodriver testimony they are the grizzly of handplanes. Hit or miss. Great value. Still have to fettle but not as much as vintage.

Edit: hit or miss is probably a bit much but they still take a bit of work (only what I've heard) to work like it should.


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## onoitsmatt (Mar 7, 2015)

Though I can't tell you what you should do, I can tell you what I did (and why) when faced with the same issue.

I decided that at some point any plane was going to need some level of honing and fettling, no matter how much it cost on day-one. So I decided to get the high-end stuff like the LN's was not a great option. Though the LN's hold their value fairly well, if you are new to hand tools (as I was), there isn't much reason to spend that much money not knowing if you are going to stick with it.

There is lots of advice out there to get one really good plane, just so you know what a really good plane should "feel" like. I think this is sound advice (which I chose not to follow). I have since spent a lot of time at antique stores and garage sales and checking craigslist for old tools. I have bought a LOT of tools over the last 14 months or so since I started. I have cleaned up a lot of planes and though still not great at sharpening, I am good enough to get good shavings (2/1000 of an inch).

It is frustrating learning to hone plane irons. But again, at some point your LN's will need honing too. So it is a skill you'll have to learn at some point.

There are also sellers here on LJs who will sell you an old Stanley for a fair price and will have it all set up for you to use. This gives you the benefit of less money out of pocket for a good tool and it is already in shape to use. This may be a good option for you.

If you have more money than time, you may want to just stick with ebay. But if going that route, keep the budget low, as many of these planes will have issues and if you are new to them, you may not be able to spot the issues. I have bought a few bad planes myself out of ignorance. They are nice to have for parts, but wouldn't buy them again if given the opportunity. 

If you have more time than money or an interest in looking for them "in the wild", antique stores are full of these old planes and usually can be had for $20 or so. I picked up a No. 6 and No. 7 for $12 each. I've never paid more than about $25 for an old stanley plane, typically much less than that.

Good luck either way!

(Edited to add):
One other thing to consider is that you'll need to get some kind of sharpening system. Sand paper and a thick piece of glass or granite will work. Oil stones or water stones or diamond stones will also work and will last much longer but carry a steeper price up-front. You may want to consider this as part of your budget. Which may mean getting an LN first may be a good option as you can defer the cost of sharpening until later when the LN plane iron gets a little dull.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Speaking of spare planes. I have a couple of ready to go 5s and maybe a 4 I could part with if your interested. Pm me if so.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

I've come to the decision that I prefer the new planes (about 2/3rds of mine are old Stanley). That being said, I would buy a couple old Stanleys and clean them up. If you decide you don't like using hand tools, you can sell them for what you paid, minus your time and maybe cost for cleaning supplies.

Spend the money on some decent sharpening stones and maybe a honing guide. Don't try and get cheap stuff. The biggest revelation for me came when I switched from using sandpaper to a good set of water stones. The sandpaper worked, but the new stones resulted in a way sharper blade and an almost polished surface left behind on the wood. Do a bit of research on the type and brand of stones you may be interested in, and get a couple good ones. Everyone has different requirements/preferences, so there's no perfect set out there. Diamond, Oil, Water, Ceramic, etc. I have a package of ceramic ones I ordered from toolsfromjapan for about $260 including shipping.


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

New woodworker and handplanes on ebay can be a bad combination. Not that there aren't good planes and even some deals available, but you have to know what you are looking for and looking at. Even then, you can get burned.

This is the route I would go to start.



> There are also sellers here on LJs who will sell you an old Stanley for a fair price and will have it all set up for you to use. This gives you the benefit of less money out of pocket for a good tool and it is already in shape to use. This may be a good option for you.
> 
> - onoitsmatt


DonW is the LJ member that probably does the most buying and selling. He has a list of tools available for purchase on his website:

http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/01/28/planes-for-sale/

If you don't find what you want, contact him to see what else is available.

The biggest advantage to this route is lower up front cost for ready to use planes. Buying off ebay, you may not get one that is really ready to go and if you've never fettled a plane before, it's tough to know when it's right. Even new planes many times need a bit of tuning before use.



> Would the Stanleys be as good once restored as new WoodRivers? Does the x2 cost of LN make it work getting one plane and making due instead of 2 for now?
> 
> - Gambrell


A vintage Stanley may or may not be as tight as a new WR and definitely not as much as an LN, but they make fine users and are capable of doing anything you need. My whole set of users is vintage, mostly over 100 years old, and I'm not at a point where it's the planes holding me back from better woodworking. Probably never will be.

There's nothing wrong with buying new if you can afford it. IMHO, however, you would be better served starting with a couple affordable vintage planes and then if and when you decide to venture further with hand planes, you can decide whether to buy new or not. At least you will have some experience and a better idea of what you are looking for and needing before plopping down the money.


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## builtinbkyn (Oct 29, 2015)

I'm pretty much in your position. New to hand tool use. I've recently assembled a pretty nice arsenal of old Stanleys purchased on the Bay, save one that was a "found tool". Yes each has taken some time to clean up and though two were "new", a #3 & #4, they are vintage as well and needed to be cleaned just as those that were users thru the years. They all also needed to be flattened and the blades sharpened. However I think this was a good route for me as I learned quite a bit about them and how they need to be dressed. I got an education along the way and spent a fraction of what these would have cost in terms of LN or Veritas. Those are certainly beautiful tools and maybe I'll graduate to them, but I think this was a fun and educational way for me to go. Oh they also seem to be working as intended. Never tried LN or Veritas planes, so I cannot compare, but I can't imagine how much better they are. I think a fine shaving of wood is a fine shaving of wood


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## builtinbkyn (Oct 29, 2015)

> I m pretty much in your position. New to hand tool use. I ve recently assembled a pretty nice arsenal of old Stanleys purchased on the Bay, save one that was a "found tool". Yes each has taken some time to clean up and though two were "new", a #3 & #4, they are vintage as well and needed to be cleaned just as those that were users thru the years. They all also needed to be flattened and the blades sharpened. However I think this was a good route for me as I learned quite a bit about them and how they need to be dressed. I got an education along the way and spent a fraction of what these would have cost in terms of LN or Veritas. Those are certainly beautiful tools and maybe I ll graduate to them, but I think this was a fun and educational way for me to go. Oh they also seem to be working as intended. Never tried LN or Veritas planes, so I cannot compare, but I can t imagine how much better they are. I think a fine shaving of wood is a fine shaving of wood
> 
> - builtinbkyn


PS If anyone has a #604 1/2 flat bottom they no longer need, I'm in the market


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

IMHO, a hobbyist new to hand tools dropping $500 on a LN as their first plane is not a great idea. If you decide hand tools aren't for you, it's one thing to have a $30 Stanley collecting dust. It's another to have one that cost more than a decent table saw on the shelf.

Get a Stanley, learn to fettle it, learn to use it, then if you take to it and think a LN is a worthy investment, go for it. IMHO, Woodriver and vintage Stanley are about on par. Woodriver costs a lot more though.

Some sharpening system is an absolute must so include that in your budget whichever option you choose. A dull plane won't cut butter and even a LN has to be sharpened periodically.


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## Vindex (Feb 24, 2016)

I was in your position less than a year ago, Gambrell. Although I am new to all of this, I would like to chime in with my experience and recommendation.

Experience:

I started off buying a new low-end Stanley, and despite reading and watching everything I could on tuning up hand planes, I could not make that thing work properly. Last May, a colleague of mine offered to lend me her well-tuned, vintage Stanley #4, #5, & #7 to laminate my workbench top. Using those tools was an absolute revelation! It felt nothing like the POC I had been trying to make work. I also discovered that a jack, jointer, and smoothing plane felt more different in use than I had anticipated.

Once my workbench was complete, I went on eBay and bought a vintage #4 and #5 of the exact same types as the ones I was borrowing (my colleague encouraged me to keep them for comparison until mine were in good shape). When my eBay planes arrived, I tuned them up until they worked as well as the ones I had borrowed. Honestly, I don't think I could have tuned up an eBay plane until I was comfortable using those borrowed ones because I did not know how a tuned plane should feel.

Recommendation:

Based on this experience, I agree with Fred and Matt: buy an already tuned vintage Stanley (or Millers Falls, Record, Sargent, etc.) from another LJ member or a reputable source. Once you get a sense of how a good plane is supposed to feel, you can go find bargain planes to restore on eBay. I haven't used the high end ones (Veritas, LN), so I cannot comment on those. However, I would advise against buying the Woodcraft plane or an eBay Stanley as your first plane.

Good luck, and let us know what you decide to get!

Edit: If it were me, I would probably take the Fridge up on his offer and get a #5.


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## TheTurtleCarpenter (Jun 25, 2015)

Start out with older Stanley's,. Shoot me a message if your interested in buying something used as I have ten times what a man needs, Yes I am a glutton for old tools and helping someone starting out in hand tools.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

The older Stanley planes are very good, and will be worth what you paid for them after you buy them…if anything, they may increase in value. I'd aim for pre WWII era. A new Woodriver isn't likely to hold value as well. You don't have to limit yourself to older Stanleys either….Record, Millers Falls, Union, Sargent VBM, and others are pretty comparable.

*Good Quality Hand Planes on a Budget*


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

#4 type 10, #5 type 12 and 13 fer sale


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Its all been said. But change the verbiage. Buy a vintage. It doesn't have to be a Stanley. Find one in a decent shape for a decent price and have some fun!


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Oh boy, here we go…..

OK. I have all 3 kinds. The advice if obvious. Sorry if some of this is repetitive.

IMO, using them quite frequently, I think WR is quite competitive but still a few notches below a LN. For some reason there are people who have a thing about them (mostly the Stanley purists, I suspect) but I have 3 WR bench planes (4, 6, 7) and actually quite like them. I disagree about the "Grizzly" of hand planes comment. Maybe I've been lucky but nor have I had to do one bit of fettling on any of 5 I've purchased. If there is a WC store near you I suggest you go there and ask to demo one.

If you don't want to go cruising flea markets and yard sales on a Stanley hunt I think its the way to go. Stay away from Ebay they are way, way overpriced. There is a member here, timetestedtools who has been mentioned.

All that being said, if you can afford a LN, I'd say go for it you will never regret it.


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## bbasiaga (Dec 8, 2012)

Last year I bought and tuned an older stanley block plane. I reach for it all the time. I noticed a block plane wasn't on your list, but it should be. High on your list too. I think you'd be safe to go with one of the WoodRiver blocks if you can't find a vintage. They have less parts and the few I've held seem pretty solid.

My next plane was an already restored plane that I bought from a fellow LJ. Stanley #4. It was nice to get one and have it just work. It cost 2x what I might have gotten it for at an antique place, but was still less than half a WR. And a quarter or less of a Veritas or LN.

My third plane, which I just got, is an older Marsh (Stanley clone, made locally) #5. I need to learn how to tune make this type of plane work. I paid $25 for it. It'll be fun to work on when I don't have other projects to do, but there are times I kinda wish I had just bought a new one.

I'm still not sure hand planes are for me. I am sure they will never replace my power tools, but I have worked with them enough to know where they make the job faster and do it better than some power tools. If it sticks, my next bench plane will be a Veritas or LN. Once I figure out what I really need, I want to invest in an heirloom quality tool. Maybe a #7.

But before that, I need a router plane and one or two other specialty planes. I can already tell that router plane and a rabbet block plane will be much preferred for some tasks than my power router.

-Brian


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## bobasaurus (Sep 6, 2009)

I actually love my WR No. 6. Well-machined and holds an edge well… it's actually one of my most used planes, even next to some LN and Veritas.

When starting out, it may be better to get a premium plane just to get a baseline for good performance. I started with vintage restoring, and it was hard for a long time because I had no idea what a good shaving should look like and how the adjustments should feel. You'll never regret owning a premium hand plane, they are lifetime tools.

Sharpening is super important, too. Go with a proven system, like diamond, water, or oil stones.


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## eflanders (May 2, 2013)

I was in your position several years back however one big difference for me was that I had inherited some old planes that I had no idea were any good. So here is what I needed to learn:

Sharpening: It's a skill you absolutely need to learn and budget for! I spent more on this than in buying planes. Some folks swear by the scary sharp method, others swear by oil stones, water stones and others by diamond plates. Let me just say that diamonds are great for regular tune ups but rather expensive for restoration. My suggestion is to invest in an extra, extra course diamond plate if you choose to do restoration. This plate will also resurface/flatten any oil or water stone you may also use.

Flatness is where sharpening begins: All planes, new or used often need to be flattened as do the blades. This is why you need to get a super flat sharpening setup. It all begins with flat and square.

Square: Edges of the blade need to be perpendicular. Either invest in a machinist square or a quality sharpening jig like the Veritas unit. I actually have both as the square is extremely useful for machine setup too. However I also have to strongly recommend the Veritas sharpening jig. It is very easy to use, very comprehensive and will easily pay for itself in sharpening all of your chisels and planes.

Nearly any plane can be made to work effectively: Why spend big bucks on a new plane when you will need to learn a lot about sharpening either way? Well the new, high-end plane makers usually prepare their units to be ready to use right out of the box even though they still tell you that they aren't. You usually don't need to do much to get them ready.

My best advice here is to budget and consider your total sharpening needs before you determine whether new or used planes are within your budget.


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## TheTurtleCarpenter (Jun 25, 2015)

Best info you can get ^^^^^^^^.! What good is a plane or chisel if you can't sharpen it.


> I was in your position several years back however one big difference for me was that I had inherited some old planes that I had no idea were any good. So here is what I needed to learn:
> 
> Sharpening: It s a skill you absolutely need to learn and budget for! I spent more on this than in buying planes. Some folks swear by the scary sharp method, others swear by oil stones, water stones and others by diamond plates. Let me just say that diamonds are great for regular tune ups but rather expensive for restoration. My suggestion is to invest in an extra, extra course diamond plate if you choose to do restoration. This plate will also resurface/flatten any oil or water stone you may also use.
> 
> ...


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## Gambrell (Mar 3, 2016)

Thanks everyone! I sure am glad I stumbled into this forum yesterday searching on google. This is a great group and I am honestly floored by how many excellent, well thought out responses I received from this post. I look forward to being an active member of this forum and have already greatly benefited from all the advice in this thread. Thanks again!

After reading all of this I think I am going to take the advice of (1) buying a few restored Stanleys from forum members to get a good feel for what a restored Stanley should work like while (2) researching and buying sharpening tools and getting a routine down and (3) later on go down the path of buying unrestored Stanleys and restoring them to the state I will be used to from (1).


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## Gambrell (Mar 3, 2016)

I am also interested in the offers in this thread of buying some of the proffered planes.


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## Gambrell (Mar 3, 2016)

I cannot PM until I have 5 posts … I apologize for taking up space.


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## Gambrell (Mar 3, 2016)

. . .


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Sounds like a solid plan


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## Gambrell (Mar 3, 2016)

post 4 - my apologies


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## Gambrell (Mar 3, 2016)

post 5 - sendings PMs


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## Gambrell (Mar 3, 2016)

PMs sent to those who have restored preWW2 era Stanleys for sale.

TheTurtleCarpenter and TheFridge.

Also checked out www.timetestedtools.net/2016/01/28/planes-for-sale/ - great site.

Thanks again all. And if anyone else knows of restored planes for sale I am interested.


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## bbasiaga (Dec 8, 2012)

Gratuitous post padding..lol.

For sharpening, I bought a King combo 1000/6000 waterstone. It was like $40. I'm sure the waters stones that cost 2x as much are better, but this makes my things sharp enough to shave, and leaves a nice surface on the wood.

I also bought the Veritas honing guide, the $70 one. As was said above WELL WORTH IT. Takes all the guess work out. So there you go, for $110 you can sharpen everything you need to. If I had something that needed to be reground, flattened or worked harder in any way, I used sandpaper on the table of my jointer (very flat). Cheap and easy start. I used that sandpaper method to flatten my stone as well.

I got a large diamond plate 'coarse' grade for christmas from my brother. I think he spend $100 on it (almost as much as the rest of my sharpening gear). It is big at 10"x4", and does a super great job of flattening my stones. It also cuts fast enough to make changing bevel angles on a blade pretty easy. But you -Briancan do without that for a long time, like I did.

Brian


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

Hey, it's your thread. Pad your posts however much you like in here.

Here's the sharpening stuff I have. Not saying it's the best out there, and you may want something different/cheaper to start on. But it's an option. Worst case scenario, watch the videos and see how he sharpens/flattens the stones. Took a while to get here, but it's about the best deal on ceramic water stones you're gonna find.

http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=335_404_403&products_id=1667

Hopefully that shows up in USD. If not, there's a drop down menu on the left side. Looks like with shipping and exchange rates, it's about $275. Gets you 3 stones, a diamond flattening stone, stone holder, and a water bottle. Pretty good deal.


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## Gambrell (Mar 3, 2016)

Thanks bbsaiga and jmartel for the advice.

jmartel - what options did you choose? There are several options at the bottom for each stone type and diamond plate.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

1000 grit hard, 6000 with base, Atoma 400 grit, and the screw base.

Honestly, if buying from them, just go with the default ones. 1000 hard, 6000 without base (base is kind of annoying and isn't needed with stone holder), Atoma 400 grit is fine, and do the suehiro base because it comes with a tray.

If you are curious at all about any japanese hand tools, might want to throw those in as well to save on shipping later. Stu's prices at that site are lower than anywhere here in the states. I'm probably going to order some chisels from him later this year. Like I said though, it took me a month to get the stuff in. There's up to 2 weeks of processing time, plus shipping. Other people have gotten them in as little as 2 weeks, but you never know.


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## Vindex (Feb 24, 2016)

This would be a pretty good and relatively cheap option as well:

King 1000/6000 Combo stone for $31: http://amzn.com/B001DT1X9O

Robert Larson Honing Guide for $12.50: http://amzn.com/B000CFNCKS
I have this honing guide, and I recommend it.

DMT Extra Coarse Bench Stone w/ non-slip mat for $72: http://amzn.com/B001AU4B86

Diamond stones are the best way to flatten water stones. 
I got the continuous stone myself (http://amzn.com/B000PVZDNI). I like it a lot, but I would probably buy the interrupted one instead if I had it to do all over again.

Also, I do my sharpening on a cheap plastic cutting board which is on top of a non-slip mat to contain the mess.

There are lots of good sharpening choices out there, so look around some before you buy.


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## Gambrell (Mar 3, 2016)

Thanks all. Great advice. I will definitely use all of this as I purchase sharpening supplies.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Here are my thoughts on getting started. Here is my opinion on how to sharpen, fettle, etc. Getting a Stanley Bailey (not bedrock) #4 or equivalent from Don W. or other reputable refurber is a good starting point. Don has good prices.


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## RGtools (Feb 18, 2011)

There has been a lot of discussion of old versus new…which I will not rehash a here. I will say when it comes to planing get the tool you need for the job you need it for. I know that sounds kind of like a pat answer but let me explain.

If you are getting a hand-plane because you don't want to take up space for a jointer and a planer in your shop, then getting a really nice new smoothing plane is not going to help you much. In that case grabbing a good vintage number 5 with a nicely cambered blade will treat you well (you will need a stout bench to use it though…another topic for another day). To make this flattening work easier, you might add in a jointer (7 or 8)....take my advice here, either get a new jointer or one that has been professionally restored, flattening all that steel on the sole yourself is a drag.

If however you do most your dimensioning with power….a jack plane will not render you much good (sad I know). At this point a nice new smoothing plane (or a good vintage one with a new blade, These ones are great) is going to be the ticket. After that perhaps a jointer for doing joints and perhaps a set of card scrapers.

Or you happen to be like me and do a fair amount of REALLY rough work. A good vintage scrub plane will be the ticket. To do this find a plane with a wide mouth and a thick iron without a chipbreaker…sharpen it and life will be good.

So my advice in a nutshell is this. Ask yourself what you need the plane for the most, then get the tool that fills that need with aplomb at the most reasonable price you can stand (remember, that dime store plane covered in rust is going to cost you time and money to restore and might be more spendy in the long haul).


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## Gambrell (Mar 3, 2016)

Thanks again for all the advice (including the sharpening advice). I purchased 2 Stanleys from a member here.


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