# eBay Slime Balls and PayPal



## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

OK, most of my eBay transactions have been completed without any problems/issues. I have collected many handplanes through eBay's market place. HOWEVER,...

Today I finally had an issue pop up. I won/bought a handplane and immediately paid the seller via PayPal, the total amount of the bid plus the stated shipping of $5.95 (low but that is what was posted and I adjusted my bid accordingly during the auction). Now to the "Slime Balls" portion of this transaction…

I get an email from the seller. I didn't think much about it and engaged in a couple of short Q&As about the plane. This seller's signature line looked like this:

"...Dr. Richard xxxxxxxxxx, Th.D., Litt.D
Cassandra xxxxxxxxx, Mission Team Co-ordinator
Northside Christian Church: www.ncclkld.com
Jamaica Bible Seminary: www.jbseminary.com
Christian Billboards Ministry on Facebook: The Christian Churches of Polk County
T.V. ad campaign P.U.P. www.thereisawayforme.com…"
.
.
.
On the third email I get from this guy, I get the following:
Mike, Postage was 19.52 regular parcel post. You paid 5.95 guestimated. Balance 13.57 paypal to [email protected] Sent it in good faith this morning about 1/2 hour ago. Thanks, RG

NOW I UNDERSTAND why this guy used my PayPal address to contact me, and I ALSO NOW UNDERSTAND why this guy has such a long signature line and what that signature line is trying to do to me, the buyer:

 This guy has ~900 eBay transactions posted
 Contacting eBay buyers outside of eBay is a violation of eBay Terms & Restrictions
 This guy's long diatribe of Religious educational accomplishments and affiliations is SUPPOSED TO guilt me into honoring his slime balls request for more $$$

MY CONCERNS & QUESTIONS:
Shouldn't there be some way to hide my actual PayPal email address from any/all sellers? I mean shoot, on eBay your identity is hidden, but eBay knows how to contact you. Now as soon as you use eBay's system of payment "PayPal" that contact information is openly given to the seller. We all know that eBay and PayPal are just one and the same entity, so why the disconnect?

Oh, and one last thing… This guy is NOT Nigerian, but in Florida USA. *>8-/*


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Mike, what do you mean both are one and the same? I think they are apart from each other, I use paypal all the time but only with ETSY on my sells.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PayPal 
On October 3, 2002, PayPal became a wholly owned subsidiary of eBay.[5] Its corporate headquarters are in San Jose, California,[2] United States at eBay's North First Street satellite office campus. The company also has significant operations in Omaha, Scottsdale, Charlotte, Boston, Baltimore and Austin in the United States; Chennai and Bangalore in India; Dublin and Dundalk in Ireland; Kleinmachnow in Germany; and Tel Aviv in Israel. Since July 2007, PayPal has operated across the European Union as a Luxembourg-based bank.


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## ZacD (Aug 1, 2013)

I would send a message to him through eBay informing him that you have paid and will be awaiting your purchased items. Wait til the expected delivery date passes and file an official eBay complaint. You'll at the very least get your money back. If you have to go that route, I'd also follow through with an official complaint that he contacted you outside of eBay to renegotiate the contracted price.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Exactly Zac!

I basically cut&pasted the guy's personal email to me into the eBay response messaging window so that eBay would have a copy of his request for more $$$ in their records. In that message to him I laid it all out about eBays policy and such. Here on LJs I pretty much just wanted folks to know just how some eBay low-life operate, so folks can avoid such traps/tricks.

So now we wait.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Mike, have you ever used your print screen button? In the future when you win a bid take a snap shot of your computer screen using the print screen button then save it as a file, that way you will have evidence and or proof of the actual transaction.


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## kdc68 (Mar 2, 2012)

I would send a message to him through eBay informing him that you have paid and will be awaiting your purchased items. Wait til the expected delivery date passes and file an official eBay complaint. You'll at the very least get your money back. If you have to go that route, I'd also follow through with an official complaint that he contacted you outside of eBay to renegotiate the contracted price

If it were me, wrong or right I don't know, but I would strongly consider filing a complaint even if I got the plane. This is far from being his first transaction so he should know shipping costs and also should know the rules outlined by Ebay. Agreed that the $5.95 shipping is wrong, but that wasn't your error. You paid the amount you should have. For him trying to rectify it after the fact in the manner for which he did is BS.

Best of luck Mike


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## kdc68 (Mar 2, 2012)

+1 Blackie…
Or if you have Windows 7, you can use the Snipping Tool to capture an image and save it….like this


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

@ KDC68, you just taught me something I didn't know I had, only I had to search snipping tool to find it, how else do open it?

In your signature line you mention Measure at least twice and cut once, that only works if you have the right measurement to begin with  I know it just happened on a project I'm working on, I had been allowing for a 3/8" over lap on my boxes for each end on the miter cuts only the project I was working was a switch up and required 5/8" over laps I was in the habit for allowing 3/8" on each end doh!


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Randy,
I have the eBay emails copied to my normal email address, PLUS I copy images(print screen) of the handplane, in case this bag tries to sell it AGAIN at a later date.

Thanks for the input folks! Will consider filing complaint regardless… we'll see.


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## kdc68 (Mar 2, 2012)

@ KDC68, you just taught me something I didn't know I had, only I had to search snipping tool to find it, how else do open it?

This is what I do, once I capture an image I save in a folder in My Pictures. From there, you can open it, view it, and edit it like a photo. Or use it as an attachment as I did in post #8….. Hope that answers your question.

In your signature line you mention Measure at least twice and cut once, that only works if you have the right measurement to begin with  I know it just happened on a project I'm working on, I had been allowing for a 3/8" over lap on my boxes for each end on the miter cuts only the project I was working was a switch up and required 5/8" over laps I was in the habit for allowing 3/8" on each end doh!

Yep, I can see myself doing that. Even measuring at least twice has no guarantees


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## JoeinGa (Nov 26, 2012)

If he did what he SAID he did, the item "SHOULD BE" on it's way to you.

On the third email I get from this guy, I get the following:
Mike, Postage was 19.52 regular parcel post. You paid 5.95 guestimated. Balance 13.57 paypal to [email protected] *Sent it in good faith this morning about 1/2 hour ago.* Thanks, RG"

So I'd say you're done …. so long as you get the plane. I've dealt with Ebay for over 10 years, both selling and buying. Most times I just used a flat rate for shipping m(based on my best guesstimate of what the charges would be via USPS.) Sometimes I made a buck or two, but usually I was pretty close based on the weight. And SOMETIMES I lost my butt on the shipping, but I ALWAYS stuck to my word (and just ate the difference).


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Yeah Joe, I hear you. I think you are correct in that the plane will show up eventually. What really chafes my ass is this guy's overt attempt to use religion (whether or not he is religious) to openly try to guilt me into modifying my own behavior. I say this not only because of his multi-religious signature line, but the additional lines suggesting "... in good faith…" and in another email:

"...Mike, I didn't get a chance to examine it before I packaged it. I have it all bubble wrapped and taped and you'll have to advise when you receive it. Planning to mail tomorrow morning. Postage is a *good faith* estimate. I'm mailing it none the less and *if the post office has any surprises for me and you*, I'll let you know. Package weighs about 10#. RG…"

I have absolutely NO problem with folks being religious and keeping that religiousness to themselves. HOWEVER, I have a boatload of problems with folks attempting to use *their* religion to manipulate other peoples actions… Ugh!... For being the flaming Liberal that I am, I still strongly support the 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution if you get my drift… Let's just hope this thing passes uneventfully and this guy crawls back into his hole without adding to my own stress levels…


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

What did the listing look like? I don't use ebay a lot but sometimes the listings say stuff about shipping just being an estimate, contact them for details. If he didn't have that and has done 900+ transactions I agree he definitely had a decent idea how much shipping would be. Just a firm but polite, no this is what shipping you put on the item should be enough. Even if he did put disclaimers about the shipping he knew it wouldn't be $5.95, so it's reasonable to expect him to eat the difference.

And I agree about overusing the religion thing, but when he says something like sent it in good faith this morning, that's not religious. It's based on a legal term meaning basically that he's doing his part of a transaction expecting you to do yours. It's the same as phrase that's used in a good faith estimate for a mortgage or negotiating in good faith. Neither is religious. The opposite is bad faith, and you could claim he was operating in bad faith by messing up the shipping quote and then trying to charge you for it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_faith


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

Mike - Rough story on that end. My advice, don't waste your time contacting that individual and just complain to ebay/Paypal. I've had a few duds before in the past and the worst outcome I've ever had is a 100% refund.


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## TedW (May 6, 2012)

Blackie and KDC68, there is no point in doing a screen copy as eBay always maintains the original terms of the auction. Edits can be made to include additional information, but the original terms of the auction is always maintained even after the end of the auction. Besides, a copied image of the web page can always be modified using any image editing software, such as Photoshop. Cool tip about the snipping tool, though… I did not know about this.

Mike, the good news is this sleaze ball cannot use your email address to take money out of your paypal account, but only put money into it.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*"...What did the listing look like?..."*

http://www.ebay.com/itm/24-Antique-Wood-Plane-/301190870776?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=ruoC1Nm8Kcm10fLGVKdSO3WOjH4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

And besides, many sellers have FREE shipping…


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## derosa (Aug 21, 2010)

You may be reading too much into it. My email address similarly lists my title and rolls as the majority of what I email is based around my role as a pastor although he seems to like to spell out all his titles more then I care to. The going through PayPal is sketchy, I'll give you that, but he may have just responded through the email stating that the payment is made which I do once I've shipped the item. I'm actually terrible about marking an item as shipped on the eBay site but I open the PayPal email due to its containing the shipping address, so I print the page and then reply to it informing of the intent to ship that day. But like several above I just eat the postage if I screw up, once even lost money on a small item due to fees and under quoting the cost to ship to Europe. Just inform him you paid the stated postage and bid, you're sorry for his loss but you wouldn't have bid as high if the shipping was higher and no, you won't pay more. Then you get to see if he lives up to his list of titles or if he's just an overeducated ass. If he's an ass just forward the emails to some of the groups he's listed.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Since eBay OWNS PayPal, why can't eBay change the sharing of PayPal information to match that of eBay? They have had over a decade of ownership to do that, if they had the will to do so.

Sure the word "faith" can be used in a generic sense, however once intertwined with other religious overtones/artifacts, they become inseparable. I do not believe for one second that that guys religious signature line was by accident or lack of forethought. I am convinced that it had been perfected over the roughly 900 eBay transactions he conducted.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

I just cannot believe this guy is as clueless as he claims. He has 897 posted transactions completed and rated.

Just received this. He also failed to answer my question as to WHY he contacted me through PayPal and did not use eBay. And remember that eBay posts this warning (in a flagged Orange Box) on every eBay message that is sent/received.

"...Mike, I underestimated postage when listing not knowing weight and shipping distance and post office charges. I sent it in good faith this morning. If you don't feel obligated to cover my out of pocket expense to mail you item I'll have to eat the loss. EBay would rather every item be send postage free. Next time I'll be more careful in my listing. Have a nice day…"

in answer to:
"...Richard,
Your request for additional payment is against eBay policies & restrictions. My bidding took into account the amount you charged for shipping. I would NOT have bid as high if shipping was higher. For someone with ~900 eBay transactions, you undoubtedly know this is not allowed.
Contacting me by PayPal address appears calculated on your part. Why didn't you use eBay to contact me?
Michael …"

BOTTOM LINE… I stand by my assessment, and I just wanted everyone to know these kinds of things don't have to happen if we are all aware and pay attention.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Thanks Russ. I am sure that I am very sensitized to the fact that he has "897" rated transactions and takes this approach. Too much experience to be naive about shipping. And in this last eBay message from him, he acknowledges his OWN knowledge and interpretation of existing eBay policies.

FWIW, I checked a number of other items he has sold and shipped. None that I found indicated such a wide discrepancy in shipping as this case. That nickel just keeps on spinning and spinning… on which side will it land?.... spinning and spinning…


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## TedW (May 6, 2012)

He screwed up and is trying to lay a guilt trip on you…. absolutely shameless that he should mention it at all. You fulfilled your part of the deal, in good faith I might add. He should just thank you for your business and mark it up as a lesson learned.

I'm not a religious person, but I do respect many of those who are. And then there are those who see religion as a way to justify their own misdeeds. I can't stand those types.


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## TravisH (Feb 6, 2013)

I wouldn't waste my time with it. I would just wait for the plane and move on.


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

Sorry to hear about your problems Mike.

"I wouldn't waste my time with it. I would just wait for the plane and move on." Usual Bull Dropping reply from Travisty! That Figures though.


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## TravisH (Feb 6, 2013)

I don't think Mike should pay the shipping and wouldn't send it just think that spending any time trying to deal with the guy is more costly than the money he asked for. I wouldn't have responded and just waited for the plane to show up and go make some shavings. Spending time on something as ridiculous as the senders request is fruitless. It gets to a point it ends up being a pyrrhic victory.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Ebay hacked. Change your password.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/investor/2014/05/27/ebay-hack-puts-stock-on-a-knife-edge/


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## mbmattvt (Mar 3, 2013)

Mike,

Best of luck with this - Its good to know that there are others that feel as I do about these folks trying their dirty deeds, etc… You sound like a very reasonable man - I believe that your thoughts and actions are justified and you'll "win" in the end. Good luck to you. I hope you'll let us know the outcome.

Matt


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Mike, I think I would have included in that return email you sent, "also Richard, religion is not necessary in a business transaction and quite frankly, I'm a bit offended by it."

I think it's rude and unprofessional for him to even ask more monies from you for the shipping and the way he went about it would have angered me too, I think I would have just dropped the whole deal and not even messed with this guy, speaking for myself that is, drama is clearly what I don't want or need in my life.


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## Buckethead (Apr 14, 2013)

I don't begrudge people their religious views, or even if they try to offer salvation to my doomed soul.

What becomes more clear as this story develops, is that this guy is using it as a front. He made the contact outside of the rules. He never acknowledged that point. He has hundreds of transactions, so he isn't unaware of the rules for contacting buyers/sellers, nor is he unaware of shipping costs and procedures.

So many ebayers try to bolster profits by pumping up shipping costs. Many do sell items at a low price and high shipping, which is really just a mind trick, but not unfair if it's up front.

This guy seems to be straight up scamming. Preying on the goodness of others.

I often wonder about such sellers, and how much effort they will put into so little actual profit. Hours of extra communication and e-battle just to squeeze another five to ten bucks out of a newly dissatisfied customer. It seems like a very unprofitable, unsustainable business model.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

I was trying to dot all my "i"s and cross all my "T"s, so I stuck to the facts/policies in the eBay email when I contacted this seller. And THEN I came here to rant… *;-)*

I am not really that upset, but wanted others to know just how these sleazeballs work, just in case someone else has yet to experience it. We all should know better, especially with all of the lying/scamming politicians and televangelists on nationwide broadcasting all of the time. This example/case was subtle when compared to many, but no one wants to be nickel & dime'd when it can be prevented by paying attention.

And as I have mentioned earlier, by and large I have had good experiences with eBay sellers, as a whole.


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## Picklehead (Feb 12, 2013)

Mike, sorry about the situation and thanks for giving us a heads up on how this happens. Well explained without unnecessary ranting or screamfont. Hope it pans out.


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## SuperCubber (Feb 23, 2012)

Mike,

I won't repeat what everyone else said. Just another vote for "F this guy, don't pay him, and report him to ebay."

Joe


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## derosa (Aug 21, 2010)

Mike, I think ebay avoids connecting themselves too directly to avoid monopoly charges, to more easily double dip on the fees without the majority of users knowing it and to keep their feet out of some of the mess that PayPal creates. 
Didn't see in your first post where it said he had 800+ sales, it does make him look a bit more dishonest, hope he really is just naive; people using their faith to leverage is one of my major annoyance points.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

I agree Russ. And what gets my goat the most is his ignorance when it comes to using his "earned" titles. For example, since I have my own PhD:

"Dr. HorizontalMike, PhD" 
*NO!!
YOU DON'T DO THAT!* You can use EITHER the prefix or the suffix but NOT BOTH! That was the biggest red flag I saw. A failure to use the very education he is claiming to have achieved… Geez!...

Dr. HorizontalMike 
OR
HorizontalMike, PhD

All I know is that you sure as Hexx won't catch me using "Dr. HorizontalMike" on an airplane or crowded bus! My Doctorate is in Educational Administration, NOT Medicine!


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

Looks like a candidate for testing out the thicknesser or disk sander to me!


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

Definitely a bad move on the seller's part. You list it wrong, your problem. I've listed a flat shipping charge before and then paid more to ship it and just had to eat it. That's the way it works.

As for the personal information side of of it (sharing of emails, etc.). I think once an item has been sold and paid for, you then have to know name address, etc. to complete the transaction. In order to pay someone on paypal, you must have an email address. So that information must be provided to both parties. He abused that by asking for more $. I've found it very convenient to have on more than one occasion.


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

"Definitely a bad move on the seller's part. You list it wrong, your problem. I've listed a flat shipping charge before and then paid more to ship it and just had to eat it. That's the way it works."
^ This exactly.
To be honest, I probably wouldn't have even replied to any of his emails once it was shipped.
I pay, you ship, I receive, transaction complete.


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