# morse taper, live center on tailstock, old Craftsman lathe



## Allen78

...bought an old Craftsman lathe. The tailstock has a tiny center that requires frequent greasing. The center pin is mounted in a 0.31" metal cylinder (not tapered), and it fits inside a 1/2" 20 tpi arbor. Is there a morse taper socket that will thread on to this 1/2" arbor? I'm not a machinist, and I can't seem to find the right device on any machine tool web site.


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## wormil

It doesn't sound familiar and I don't want to chase down the model number. Can you provide more detail, pictures, or a model#? There is no way to convert threaded to a machine taper that I'm aware of without machine shop work. And would only have room for an MT0 which is a very uncommon size. Some old lathes were made before things were standardized and you can spend more money than they are worth trying to change them over. My advice is don't spend much money on it and in the meanwhile look for something more standardized. 
http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/p/how-to-buy-vintage-lathe.html


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## MrUnix

Sounds like a description of a removable center tip on a dead center. But like Rick sez, kinda hard to give any advice without knowing what we are discussing… and pictures would certainly help. Don't believe I have ever seen a tailstock ram that was threaded.

Cheers,
Brad


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## bandit571

Does it look like this?








Parted this out last year….most went out to OK. LJer Candy has these items.


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## Allen78

Thanks for the responses. I figured that Morse tapers have been around forever. Someone suggested that I could put a 3-jaw chuck on the threads, but that's not going to help me turn table legs, I don't believe.

Some photos:


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## wormil

100 years ago nothing about lathes had been standardized and wasn't really until WWII. Morse wasn't standard for lathe tapers until early 20th century. You get into really old lathes and you pretty much use them as they came.


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## bandit571

What that appears to be is a "Dead Center" .....clean the recess out, and set the inner half back inside where it belongs…..I usually waxed the point before the end of the blank was shoved onto the point. More of a "Cup Center" , remains stationary while the wood spins on the point.

Turned many a table leg with it. Motor finally gave out…parted the rest out. 









What it used to look like..









in use..


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## guitaradelic

I have one of those Craftsman, I got a #1 MT live center at Woodcraft. Rockler also carries them, something like $20. Works great, much better than the old dead center.


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## Allen78

Looked at both web sites…does the live center that you're describing fit on the male threaded tail stock? I don't see a live center that would do that on either site.


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## thimmaker

Looks like that tailstock quill is hollow? Have you tried knocking out the center with a rod and hammer? Could be a #1 taper in there?


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## Allen78

Yes, it is hollow, but the piece that is removable, with the point, is cylindrical. The removable piece is O.31" in diameter, not tapered. I see on another web site that the most narrow diameter of a #0 taper is 0.25" and the widest diameter is 0.356". Guitaradelic, is that what you did?


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## MrUnix

Do you have a model number so the manual can be referenced?

Cheers,
Brad


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## Allen78

149.23871

Here's a link: http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/732/7115.pdf

Nice drawing but not much specific information on the parts.

I'll talk to the Woodcraft guys next time I'm in their neighborhood.

Thanks for all the helpful comments.


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## Allen78

...well, I could have checked this clever solution that was suggested right here on Lumberjocks!


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## MrUnix

That machine was made by AMT (American Machine and Tool Co.) for Craftsman. The manual you linked to is for a very similar model (AMT Model 273), but slightly different - the 273 had a double tube bed, which I believe is the only real difference. Can't find any reference to one with a bed similar to yours.

Anyway, It does not appear to have a morse taper, so you are rather limited in what can be put on the tailstock. According to the catalog though, there was a live center available that fit over the tailstock ram - AMT part #A432. Probably be kind of hard to find these days unfortunately. I can think of a few different ways you could make a live center, but it would be limited by what you have available in the way of tooling. In the mean time, the dead center is perfectly usable as is.. just use wax to keep it lubricated.

Cheers,
Brad


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## Allen78

Actually, mine is the one with the double tube bed. Mine are the photos above that show only the tailstock. So the AMT machine is the one I have. It works fairly well…but, like you say, just need to keep that dead center lubricated. Thanks for the info; those old catalogs are interesting.

Allen-Crawfordsville, IN


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## Rus2248

Got this bad boy (Sears Craftsman 149.23871) off of Craigslist for a steal about a month ago. The only thing wrong, other than needing a little TLC, was it didn't have the rear tail stock live center. After extensive research, this seems to be a common issue, hind sight is always 20/20.










Anyone who knows me will tell you that i'm probably too stubborn for my own good. I decided that it shouldn't be TOO difficult to fabricate my own piece. I'll skip the first couple of prototypes and go straight to what i hope will be the finished piece. I took a block of aluminum and tapped a 1/2" thread in the center to attach directly to the tail stock. Then I used an old bearing bracket I had and mounted it to the block with a 3/8" bolt locked into place. This allowed me to thread on the #2 Morse Taper I had purchased.










To my surprise, the new piece aligned perfectly without any modifications required.










I haven't tested it out yet, I only just finished it, and figured the neighbors wouldn't appreciate my 1 A.M. projects. What do you guys think? Good idea? Or should I wear some body armor before turning it on?


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## Nubsnstubs

> Got this bad boy (Sears Craftsman 149.23871) off of Craigslist for a steal about a month ago. The only thing wrong, other than needing a little TLC, was it didn t have the rear tail stock live center. After extensive research, this seems to be a common issue, hind sight is always 20/20.
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> Anyone who knows me will tell you that i m probably too stubborn for my own good. I decided that it shouldn t be TOO difficult to fabricate my own piece. I ll skip the first couple of prototypes and go straight to what i hope will be the finished piece. I took a block of aluminum and tapped a 1/2" thread in the center to attach directly to the tail stock. Then I used an old bearing bracket I had and mounted it to the block with a 3/8" bolt locked into place. This allowed me to thread on the #2 Morse Taper I had purchased.
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> To my surprise, the new piece aligned perfectly without any modifications required.
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> I haven t tested it out yet, I only just finished it, and figured the neighbors wouldn t appreciate my 1 A.M. projects. What do you guys think? Good idea? Or should I wear some body armor before turning it on?
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> - Rus2248


A suit of armor, like the knights in England used.

If you could cut the taper off the center and tap the end of the live center 'shell', you'd be miles ahead. If you don't have that ability, hopefully you know someone that is a machinist that could help. The length of the live center looks to be over 5"? long. The taper requires 2 1/2" just for the ground portion. The bolt needs to be cut where when screwed into the live center, it will butt up against the block you made to cover the dead center.

One thing needs to be said. If the of the 'Shell' rotates, that's a Revolving Center. If the 'Shell' is stationary with the taper, that is called a Live Center. ............... Jerry (in Tucson)


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## Rus2248

Couldn't agree more on all of your points. I do have the means to tap the live center, I was just hesitant on pushing too far and destroying the part. I figured this is still a prototype, and if it worked I would work on condensing size. The "shell" is stationary, I wanted to maintain the functionality of the live center itself. Thank you for your insight. I will definitely have to look into tapping the shaft.


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## Rus2248

Update:
The Live center preformed beautifully!










However, the motor was creating a tremendous rattle and shaking the whole table. In addition to that, after 10-20 seconds of continuous running, the motor began to smoke. As I turned it off, an oil leak started to form on the top of the motor.










Does anyone know what I should do at this point?
Also, sidebar question, does anyone have any tips on changing the belts to adjust the speed?


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## richgene

I just found this blog and signed up.

I have the craftsman wood lathe model 113.228360 and need that threaded tail stock the dead center cup goes into. Bandit571 posted a picture of the complete tail stock for my model.

I would like to find one just like it. If LJer Candy still has one that would like to part out please respond.

Thanks

richgene


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## PopsHuckster

I've got a similar problem. This is a Craftsman 109.21600 (vintage 1947) wood lathe I use mostly for turning pens and parts for my Herman Nut Crackers (last picture). BUT..I really could use a live center for the tail stock. As you can see from the pictures, it's not a Morse taper tail stock. It's actually threaded with a permanent pin turned into the insert. I made the second insert on my 1940 Craftsman metal lathe so I could replace the pin insert when it either broke or wore down. So far I haven't found any live center insert to fit it and I can turn down metal to make a 'dead' center but don't have enough equipment to make a live center. Any ideas?


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## inspector239

Appears that there may be a threaded on item on EBay that will fit on the threads and have a live center. I have a Craftsman 149 23860 and after several replies to the seller it fits 1/2 inch 20 thread. About 50 bucks. Most likely will purchase and see how that turns out. According to seller it will fit any of these older craftsman with that type of tailpiece.


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