# Fence and meter gauge at the same time



## 716 (Nov 22, 2015)

I always thought it is something that never should be attempted. Apparently this guy has a different opinion


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

He isn't doing through cuts. Read your manual… you will see the exact same procedure described for cutting dados and rabbets.

Cheers,
Brad


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## rick1955 (Jun 26, 2014)

It's perfectly safe. Doing it without the miter gauge is dangerous. Some folks will clamp a spacer block at the beginning of the rip fence, but there is nothing dangerous in what he's doing.


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

i use my fence and miter gage quite often. with a 3/4" spacer clamped to the fence a couple inches before the blade and 3/4" added when setting the fence i can make multiple length pieces pretty safely, as recently as yesterday as im kikin out 7 jewelry boxes, so sides got cut quick and exact.


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## hotbyte (Apr 3, 2010)

Yep, non through cut ok because there is no cut off piece to get wedged between blade/fence and thrown back.

Tomsteve, I made an exact 1" block to make math easier


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## upinflames (Jun 24, 2012)

I see where one could get confused, but not to worry, he's doing this on a sawstop…...absolutely no worries….from what I understand (I read it on the internet) these things make a worry free environment to work in…..but,but,but I do this on my PM66 with no problems…..go figure


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Using the miter gauge and fence is not at all unusual (when it's not a through cut).


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

You seem to be asking some very basic questions that tells me you need to watch some videos and read some ar
articles, OK?

Before posting questions like this, I suggest you should have asked yourself a simple question first: Would Woodworkers Journal would post a video with something so blatantly unsafe?

Before jumping to conclusions, try this:

"Gee maybe I've got something wrong?"


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## Picklehead (Feb 12, 2013)

> You seem to be asking some very basic questions that tells me you need to watch some videos and read some ar
> articles, OK?
> 
> Before posting questions like this, I suggest you should have asked yourself a simple question first: Would Woodworkers Journal would post a video with something so blatantly unsafe?
> ...


What's with the attitude? I think it's better to ask questions of people with more experience and different viewpoints than it is to watch videos and try to figure it out for yourself. Before posting answers like this ask yourself a question: "Did you learn everything you know without any help?"


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## 716 (Nov 22, 2015)

So what happens if the end of the piece that is farther from the fence catches on something on the table on the way back, or any other mishap, like excessive play in the miter gauge that forces the piece out if square with the blade ?


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

I actually had more concerns about his hand being above the blade when he was closing the clamp on his tenoning jig.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

So what happens when an airplane falls on your house?
Bill


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## 716 (Nov 22, 2015)

> I actually had more concerns about his hand being above the blade when he was closing the clamp on his tenoning jig.
> 
> - jbay


That is perfectly fine since this is from Woodworkers Journal , who would not post something so blatantly unsafe.


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## hotbyte (Apr 3, 2010)

Then, you have not ensured a safe work environment, i.e. nothing to catch stock, and proper setup/inspection of your tools 



> So what happens if the end of the piece that is farther from the fence catches on something on the table on the way back, or any other mishap, like excessive play in the miter gauge that forces the piece out if square with the blade ?
> 
> - 716


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

> So what happens if the end of the piece that is farther from the fence catches on something on the table on the way back, or any other mishap, like excessive play in the miter gauge that forces the piece out if square with the blade ?
> 
> - 716


Pretty much the same thing that would happen if the fence wasn't in play. It's not contributing to the problem you describe.


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

> So what happens if the end of the piece that is farther from the fence catches on something on the table on the way back, or any other mishap, like excessive play in the miter gauge that forces the piece out if square with the blade ?
> 
> - 716


common sense comes into play,too. what do YOU think would happen?


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

When the diagonals bind between the fence and the miter gauge a kickback 
happens.

However, the video was making a tenon.


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## ste6168 (Mar 12, 2015)

> I actually had more concerns about his hand being above the blade when he was closing the clamp on his tenoning jig.
> 
> - jbay


That is ok because it is a SawStop.


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## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

This is how I learned to crosscut on a table saw using the miter gauge and the fence,with the help of short fence:
When cross cutting ,I make a short fence that's about 10" long and ends just before the blade, I use stock against the miter gauge with the end of it against the short fence,push the miter gauge and the stock toward the blade and cut,this way the stock will not get trapped between the fence and the blade.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Ken, you're referring to a through cut, right?


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## 716 (Nov 22, 2015)

> Ken, you re referring to a through cut, right?
> 
> - Fred Hargis


How does it matter ? Through or not you have an equal short piece of wood touching the blade and the fence. In case that piece somehow gets out of square with the blade it is going to get jammed and pushed into the blade.


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## 716 (Nov 22, 2015)

> So what happens if the end of the piece that is farther from the fence catches on something on the table on the way back, or any other mishap, like excessive play in the miter gauge that forces the piece out if square with the blade ?
> 
> - 716
> 
> ...


If there is no fence there is nothing to push the wood into the blade.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

> What s with the attitude? I think it s better to ask questions of people with more experience and different viewpoints than it is to watch videos and try to figure it out for yourself. Before posting answers like this ask yourself a question: "Did you learn everything you know without any help?"
> 
> - Picklehead


Coming off as a know-it-all when you're looking like a troll, that's what.


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## hotbyte (Apr 3, 2010)

Since this is a non through cut, that short piece can't get out of square without the part to left of blade against the miter gauge gets out of square. If that happens, it ain't gonna matter where the fence is located.



> How does it matter ? Through or not you have an equal short piece of wood touching the blade and the fence. In case that piece somehow gets out of square with the blade it is going to get jammed and pushed into the blade.
> 
> - 716


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

> If there is no fence there is nothing to push the wood into the blade.
> 
> - 716


I give up. You are free to follow whatever procedures you want to, of course. Have fun!
Stopped cuts (dados and so on) are perfectly safe using the fence and miter, through cuts are not, fairly simple.


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## shampeon (Jun 3, 2012)

Fred: I reached the same point with the OP on another thread. I don't mind helping people and sharing knowledge-that's why I'm here, and that's how I learned-but I don't get why he argues with everyone giving him the benefit of their advice.


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## joey502 (Mar 30, 2014)

> If there is no fence there is nothing to push the wood into the blade.
> 
> - 716
> 
> ...


Giving up is a good idea. He asks questions and then argues his view with people who take the time to offer their insight. His threads are started to bicker with people not to learn from the answers.


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## 716 (Nov 22, 2015)

> Since this is a non through cut, that short piece can t get out of square without the part to left of blade against the miter gauge gets out of square. If that happens, it ain t gonna matter where the fence is located.
> - hotbyte


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## hotbyte (Apr 3, 2010)

Are you implying the first picture isn't an OH SH*& event?


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## 716 (Nov 22, 2015)

Ha-ha


> Giving up is a good idea. He asks questions and then argues his view with people who take the time to offer their insight. His threads are started to bicker with people not to learn from the answers.
> - joey502


Why wouldn't you just say: *It must be done that way because I said so*!
I am trying to understand why you can use the fence with the miter gauge with non through cuts, while my limited logic says it is unsafe. You know why and are willing to answer please do so. If none of those let some others do it.
Secondly where do you see a question ?


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## 716 (Nov 22, 2015)

> Are you implying the first picture isn t an OH SH*& event?
> - hotbyte


Not nearly as much as in the second. 
In the first image the board is loose on both sides and the blade does not make the matter worse. The out of square angle is limited to what you created.

In the second image the piece is wedged and the running blade makes it worse. ( I probably should draw it differently with the angle in the opposite direction). A small angle that would give you a burn without the fence, tends to increase if the fence is involved.


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## joey502 (Mar 30, 2014)

> Ha-ha
> 
> Giving up is a good idea. He asks questions and then argues his view with people who take the time to offer their insight. His threads are started to bicker with people not to learn from the answers.
> - joey502
> ...


Using the fence and miter together is unsafe on through cut because of the off cut piece. The danger and kick back risk is with the off cut piece. The offcut is at great risk of bindimg between the blade and fence. The part being guided by the miter gauge is fine because it is being controlled.

On a non through cut there is no off cut to become a projectile, which is why people are saying it is safe to make that cut. Never safe to make a through cut with the fence and miter gauge.


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## shastaman (Jan 28, 2016)

> I actually had more concerns about his hand being above the blade when he was closing the clamp on his tenoning jig.
> 
> - jbay


This was my thought too, but untill now decided to stay out of this. haha


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## Cooler (Feb 3, 2016)

My fence slides fore and aft. When I use the miter gage I make sure that the fence is slid back so that I don't engage the blade until after I've cleared the fence.

I think that the video shows a dangerous practice. Not as dangerous perhaps as a straight kickback, but it could easily give you a fractured wrist. I don't see this as too much of an amputation risk however. Though a short piece could torque up and hit you in the face.


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## Cooler (Feb 3, 2016)

deleted by Cooler; duplicate post


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## PLK (Feb 11, 2014)

> Are you implying the first picture isn t an OH SH*& event?
> - hotbyte
> 
> Not nearly as much as in the second.
> ...


Since this is your thread and you have debunked every answer given to you and given your own reasons why said practice is unsafe.

Please Mr man of wisdom tell us all how we should make these cuts.

Paul


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## 716 (Nov 22, 2015)

> My fence slides fore and aft. When I use the miter gage I make sure that the fence is slid back so that I don t engage the blade until after I ve cleared the fence.
> 
> I think that the video shows a dangerous practice. Not as dangerous perhaps as a straight kickback, but it could easily give you a fractured wrist. I don t see this as too much of an amputation risk however. Though a short piece could torque up and hit you in the face.
> 
> - Cooler


This is a dangerous answer as it is not in line with what all the "*I know everything and better*" folks in here say.


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## 716 (Nov 22, 2015)

> Since this is your thread and you have debunked every answer given to you and given your own reasons why said practice is unsafe.
> 
> Please Mr man of wisdom tell us all how we should make these cuts.
> 
> - Paul


Some people in this thread already told you. You clump a short block to the fence. And slide along it. When the piece touches the blade it already is beyond the block, so no wedging occurs.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

That works really well, it just isn't needed when doing tenons and non-through cuts. Oh, wait…I'm repeating myself…and I said I give up. Sorry…..


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## PLK (Feb 11, 2014)

716
I suggest you learn what a through and non through cut is. Your op was referring to a non through cut, now you are on through cuts.

I'm with Fred, I give up on you.

Paul


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

> Tomsteve, I made an exact 1" block to make math easier
> 
> - hotbyte


well that there makes just too much sense! imma going to plane down a piece of 5/4 maple i have and use it just for that. 
cant believe (actually i can) i didnt think of that sooner.

thanks for the tip!


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## hotbyte (Apr 3, 2010)

> Some people in this thread already told you. You clump a short block to the fence. And slide along it. When the piece touches the blade it already is beyond the block, *so no wedging occurs.*
> 
> - 716


My last try…wedging can not occur on a non through cut…


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## shastaman (Jan 28, 2016)

What if for instance after the cut you took your left hand and grabbed the workpiece from the miter guage and deliberately pulled it out off square? And then returned it back through the saw blade. Would that be the problem you are having or seeing here? I did not see that in the video though so im only guessing here.


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## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

stop feeding the troll


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## sawdust703 (Jul 6, 2014)

The op obviously doesn't have enough experience with the TS to know up from down. And to say that its ok because it's a sawstop?!? Ya best have a look see at more utube videos.


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## chiseler (Dec 20, 2015)

I do what this guy is doing all the time.But if he had cut his tenon to width first and then made his shoulder cuts in this manner,"WATCH OUT"! there is a very good chance the drop off would get trapped between the fence and spinning blade and kick back.This is where it's a good idea to use a spacer block well before you will make contact with the blade.


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## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

Just to add a little controversy to the subject,has any one ever heard of "*the speed tennon*" ? it is a technique that some may find unsafe but there's an article in fine woodworking magazine that shows how it's done:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/42295/behold-the-speed-tenon

Here's the video:

http://bcove.me/e7rq3vyy


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## PLK (Feb 11, 2014)

Ken, your going to make 716's head blow up.

Paul


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## hotbyte (Apr 3, 2010)

Interesting method…kind of surprised somebody hasn't made a special blade with side cutters for that


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> Ken, your going to make 716 s head blow up.
> 
> Paul
> 
> - Paul


No his head isn't going to blow up but his gut is going to get sore from laughing. I think 716 and DVK are one in the same.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

One more reason to have a fence that slide back.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> The op obviously doesn t have enough experience with the TS to know up from down. And to say that its ok because it s a sawstop?!? Ya best have a look see at more utube videos.
> 
> - sawdust703


Are you saying he comes across as lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular. Like table saw use and woodworking?


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