# Pro's/Con's of converting 13'x16' living room into hand tooling shop



## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

My 2 car garage is maxed out for wood working machinery, sprinkled in with un-organized hand tools. I live solo (no kids, no wife) in my 2 story house. I planned to remove the living room carpet to install vinyl wood flooring. That is when my friend suggested converting living room to a 2nd shop. Great idea! This would give me a dedicated room to expand my hand tool experience, and room for a 8' roubo work bench, large assembly table, etc. I have a concrete foundation so that's a plus. 2 large windows that can be use with window fans for spraying as well. 
I am unsure of the "dust" that is create as compared to machinery. I know it's less, but unsure of how much less. Lighting will be an issue, but I can address that with track lighting or such. Will have a 50" plasma tv to watch Peter Seller youtube videos at hand  
Before I truly jump into this project remodel… figured to ask the LJ community the pro's / con's because this is a major project than if something in the garage.
-eric


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

A man after my own heart… There will be some dust because there's always some dust but much less if you are only makin' shavings. Really I wouldn't want to woodwork in the house proper unless I could seal the room.


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

Sealing the room. Hmm… I assume you mean open/close doorways to the rest of the house, not plastic sheeting everything. Here is picture of living room and the 2 entrances: front door and upstairs, and then hallway to kitchen (and 2 of 3 dogs i'm babysitting. don't mind the failed experimental paint color attempts)


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## bbasiaga (Dec 8, 2012)

Why not a spare bedroom instead?

Smaller workbench, but more isolated.

Brian


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## bbasiaga (Dec 8, 2012)

And don't spray in the house. The furnace/ AC will recirculate all that through the whole house. Its not so bad with water based or shellac only. But lacquer or oil based will be a big problem.

Brian


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

I have no need for isolation other than sealing issues.. Living room is almost twice as big as my spare bedrooms. Plus bedrooms are upstairs


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

For hand tools? No problem! I took over our den (commonly known as a Florida room down here) about the same size after I ran out of room in the garage, shed, pole barn and patio  Keep the band saw, planers (3 of them), jointers (2 of them), scroll saw, sewing machine and two of my four lathes in there. For most stuff, I just open up the sliding glass door and shoot the chips out back - but for the rest of the stuff, it hasn't been noticeable anywhere else in the house and a shop vac provides the cleanup at the end of the day. No problems other than the looks that I get from the wife now and then - and I waited until the kids moved out before taking it over.

Cheers,
Brad


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## JoeinGa (Nov 26, 2012)

When I saw the title, my FIRST thought was *'' Well, HE sure as hell aint married " *
.
Sorry, but I've been married 42 years tomorrow, so I certainly have no ideas for converting the living room into a shop !


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

Brad, did you have to add lighting or anything electrical? 
Joe… Come on. You know you want to


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

Joe I saw this and thought the same thing!!!

*Holbs*
You have thrown out the pros in that you get more space and such. That said let me list a few cons I recall a few guys who did so tell me.
1. If you have no spouse that might change in the future, having the living room part of your wood-shop will be an issue unless they enjoy the hobby as much as you.
2. If you do have a spouse while they may agree to it believe this, they will hold this against you until you die!
3. My Father sprayed lacquer in the basement once in our 1st house, smelled like that for years.
4. No matter how careful you are short of a airlock, dust will get in, and you will track it with you.
5. 8 feet ceilings suck to work in.

Years ago I worked with a guy that was single, he turned the house into a multilayered shop (2 story) and the detached garage into a bedroom, bathroom, common room/ kitchen. Had this for a few years then met some girl and after a few months it looked serious so he invited her over. She had a stroke when he showed her the shop. ROFLMAO


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

Yep butcher… I realize Cupid may hit me one day. But being a bachelor at my age…well… this is not a social dating site (attention female woodworkers!). I'll take my chances on the #1 you mentioned. I am also trying to configure the living room/woodshop room so that if I had to move or spouse & kids come into the picture, it will take little effort to make it look like a remodeled living room. Such as wood grained vinyl plank floors, old barn wood wallpaper, etc. 
Good points on the spraying of lacquer and dust. I'll look into it. But if I had a 4'x6' alcove area with venting out big living window by fan or such… would the lacquer smell or other sprays still proliferate elsewhere afterwards?


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> Brad, did you have to add lighting or anything electrical?
> - Holbs


Nope… everything in there runs on 120v and don't require a lot of juice. Lighting is just regular stuff although I do have one of those pivoting arm things for my scroll saw. I think the largest load would be the planers, but nothing a 15A outlet can't handle. Table saw and other stuff that needs 240v is out in the garage where it's available.

Cheers,
Brad


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

Brad… what about ventilation, dust, spray booth or so?


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

Dust hasn't been an issue and I never spray indoors… plus the compressor is out in the garage. I will do some finish work inside if I'm using a brush or wiping on poly, but wait until the wife goes to bed so she doesn't have to deal with the smell of mineral spirits (which I love btw!).

Cheers,
Brad


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

ah good point of compressor being in garage. didn't think about that. ok…good to realize.


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## TheTurtleCarpenter (Jun 25, 2015)

I would put some extra support under the floor joist if you put the bench midspan. If up against the wall it should be OK.


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

concrete sub floor


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## TheTurtleCarpenter (Jun 25, 2015)

Not a problem then, My perfect house would be a steel building with a couple rooms framed in for a bath and bedroom. Ha ! With the rest of the space as my shop


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

my perfect shop would be the Fonzi layout


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## nightguy (Aug 2, 2016)

> I would put some extra support under the floor joist if you put the bench midspan. If up against the wall it should be OK.
> 
> - TheTurtleCarpenter


Standard floor load is 40lb sq ft by code, so if his bench was 8×3ft, it would have to weight 960lbs, think water bed, I had a king size for years, water weighs 8.4 lbs per gallon, it held a 100+ gallons.

Stay single at all cost, if in love, keep your place the way you want it and visit hers. Love is an idealistic dream, just like for ever and ever, and until death do we part. Ya right, just look how many Divorce Attorneys there are!!!!!!!!!!!
I have a friend, divorced 2 kids paying child support on, met a widow with 3, THE LOVE OF HIS LIFE, got married to her, she talked him into adopting her kids, 6 months later, she files for divorce, now he has 5 kids he is paying child support on. She had a plan right from the start, they are all cold, heartless, connivers.


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## TheTurtleCarpenter (Jun 25, 2015)

Standard load would not take into effect hammering and such plus you are centralizing that weight to 4 small areas of contact, Waterbeds had a gridwork to distribute that weight.


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## MikesProjects (Mar 11, 2013)

Great idea converting the living room space, I love the idea & hope you do it, that would be awesome, please post lots of pics.
do it, do it, do it, oh yeah, you'll have a true industrial style living room. Maybe try to blend it in & make an industrial themed living room space. You know you can have a tv & sitting area along with a work bench. I think the walls need to be painted slightly darker. This totally could be fun… Check out industrial furniture on the internet…


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## nightguy (Aug 2, 2016)

> Great idea converting the living room space, I love the idea & hope you do it, that would be awesome, please post lots of pics.
> do it, do it, do it, oh yeah, you ll have a true industrial style living room. Maybe try to blend it in & make an industrial themed living room space. You know you can have a tv & sitting area along with a work bench. I think the walls need to be painted slightly darker. This totally could be fun… Check out industrial furniture on the internet…
> 
> - MikesProjects


Add a fire place too, to burn scrap and ombionce!!


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## nightguy (Aug 2, 2016)

> Standard load would not take into effect hammering and such plus you are centralizing that weight to 4 small areas of contact, Waterbeds had a gridwork to distribute that weight.
> 
> - TheTurtleCarpenter


The problem with some people is they think they are always correct and have to get the last word in. 
Hammering, at best a mallet and chisel, that aint hammering.
Then there are the non comprehensive readers, his house is on a concrete slab!!!
" I have a concrete foundation so that's a plus. "


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## TheTurtleCarpenter (Jun 25, 2015)

The problem with some people is they think they are always correct and have to get the last word in. 
Hammering, at best a mallet and chisel, that aint hammering.
Then there are the non comprehensive readers, his house is on a concrete slab!!!
" I have a concrete foundation so that's a plus. "

Mr Holbs didnt mention that he had a concrete slab in the original post Nightguy, I made my post and you felt you should correct me. Lets just stick to keeping this post on track,


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

yep..concrete slab  so maybe can create a 2,000lb Roubo!


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## nightguy (Aug 2, 2016)

Not knowing the whole hosue lay out, a 20" box fan with a 2" 20×20"Merf 8, pleated filter would make for good dust collection in the air. I would not spray finish in there, too messy with over spray, now for wipe on/brush on would be okay.
I set up a shop in my basement 15×15ft, I had 15ft x5ft area that was storage and a machinists work bench, I had 3 box fans with those filters on it hung from the ceiling and a Jet 1i00 collector in the wood working space hooked up to all my machines. Not much free dust on horizontal surfaces in the WW shop.
I hung 8 Mil plastic sheeting to separate the wood shop from the clean area, 3 openings, I overlapped the plastic at those openings by 8", no dust over there. Just my experience.


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

Night… it's a dinky single family 1200 sq ft 2 story house. You can see the sliding window in the above picture for ventilation, and another one to the right (out of picture). Ventilation will be no problem. I'll figure something out to attempt less dust getting around the house, somehow. I gots time to figure that part out.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

I say do it, It's the perfect way to stay single.


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## nightguy (Aug 2, 2016)

> Night… it s a dinky single family 1200 sq ft 2 story house. You can see the sliding window in the above picture for ventilation, and another one to the right (out of picture). Ventilation will be no problem. I ll figure something out to attempt less dust getting around the house, somehow. I gots time to figure that part out.
> 
> - Holbs


But it is yours do with what you want, no Land Lord or SO to tell you what you can and cannot do!!!!! Appreciate and enjoy both of that!!!!!


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## BigYin (Oct 14, 2011)

Fit fire door seals around the doosr to the rest of the house and fine filters over the aircon.

I suggested doing this in our house to my wife this morning … certainly woke her up but was just a little negative about the idea. ;-)


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

I'm lucky I get to work in the garage you lucky dog! I wouldn't think dust would be much of an issue if you're only using hand tools. As others mentioned, I wouldn't spray any finishes in there though and a box fan with a furnace filter fitted to it would be a good idea.

I am curious about 1 thing though, if you're a single man, why are there pink and teal paint samples on the wall? 
;-P


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

Ken… I am not married, nor current g/f. Does not mean I have er….um…."friends"  One of those friends wanted to help me paint my place since I'm tired of the tan sand paint so we tried a couple sample runs which thankfully didn't pan out.
Ok…no spray finishes in the house. Figured I could convert the 4'x7' alcove (to the right of the little trash can in the picture) to a mini-spray area if plastic sheeted off, but may not.


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## Snipes (Apr 3, 2012)

I agree with Alaska, get after it! put some of that sticky plastic down where you walk in to pull the dust off your feet..


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## Clarkie (May 11, 2013)

Why not just put a bunk in the garage shop and let others live in your house? Argh!


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

I thinks it's a great idea for a bachelor.
I did the same thing when I was single,Mostly wood carving but sometimes I broke out the jig saw.
I used my dinner table.I was roofing full time just to stay above water.Ive been homeless several times in my life.Its very difficult to party and have a place to live at the same time.
My coworker Jerry used to point out that most people have food scraps on their dinner table.Aj has wood chips.
Completely normal for me.
So I say go for it but be careful with solvent finishes.Very careful

Aj


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

First determine where your return air duct is. They are rarely in the living room. The return air is what would spread fumes/dust throughout the house. Otherwise you have only incoming air essentially creating a positive pressure room. I would definitely find a way to close off the room. Doors (pocket) or any other method to contain dust/shavings. Further door mats on the working side to get stuff off your shoes. I could not tell where your entry door to the house is but will you have to walk through the new 'shop' to access the rest of the house?
All that said you are the envy of many wood workers here. I myself am quite fortunate to be married to a fine woman who allows light woodworking 'in house'. She has an easel set up in the spare bedroom in addition to her studio in the back yard. She also has a drawing wall just off the dining room wall where she does charcoal drawing. There are paintings all over the house. I store wood in the house as my shop, a two car garage is full. There is storage behind every chair couch and sideboard. Veneer is stored under all of the beds.
Good luck in you endeavor.


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## nightguy (Aug 2, 2016)

If you have a furnace return in there you dont want to close it off, you need that open for proper air flow for the operation of the furnace, but put a filter media over it.


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

Furnace return, oddly enough is visible on the lower left corner (you can see the white grill). What house engineer decided to put the furnance return vent in the living room I have no idea. Hmm… you guys bring up valid point about dust filters since the furnance return IS sitting in same room. I'll look into solutions.
They vinyl planking I'll be laying down will be wood-looking related. Darker the better. It came to mind to me today… wallpaper? These existing walls are BORING sand color. Tis an option to repaint white or something. But then I thought barn wood or log looking wallpaper. Hmm…. this is turning into a serious project since the sky is the limit such as:









Jack..the return is INDEED in living room. Door mats as I walk out of room is a great idea. And the front door is the white door at the end of the stairwell (which in one of the pictures is behind the wall with proclain tile on ground…another stupid engineering aspect I hate…should have glass walls or alcoves there). So to get to the kitchen, I'll have to walk thru this room.


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

Yep see it now. That is unfortunate. With the return air and front door access you may want to rethink your idea. That is a lot to overcome.


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

Jack..I could install HEPA filter for furnace…or double filter it or even re-direct the inlet via sit down bench or boxed shelving.. or another over head air cleaner. I'll look into it. And this will be an area of hand planes and chisels, not bosch router or table saws. Lots of shavings, less dust than from inside garage machine area. 
Lots of overcome…but it sure is exciting and fun!


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

For all the time and effort what is the possibility of building a extension on your existing shop, or in close proximity a second building? Myself I built onto my shop years ago and added 10×10. Small but stayed within limits dealing with permits and such. Reaching out to friends I got alot of supplies, 2×4s 2×6s etc etc and kept it down to less than $2000.


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

Butcher… I have always kept it in the back of my mind to extend the garage outwards by 10 or 20'. It's still a possibility. But that would involve, as you said, permits & engineers and greater financial investment If that time ever came…unsure if it would be more wise to lease/purchase/build my own separate steel building.


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## Betsy (Sep 25, 2007)

Holbs - go for it. I too live alone and I have my 2-car garage for all the big tools, use my middle bedroom for finishing and storing completed boards, use my second bedroom to glue up and sanding, my living room is often a lumber storage area when I buy a big load of lumber and the larger glue ups get done on my 5" wide kitchen counter top.

My little buddy, Peter, doesn't mind one twit so that is all that matters to me.

Now all that said - there's nothing in the book that you can't reconvert the living room/shop back into a living room should you decide to add another 2-legged being into your life. Although I admit it would be hard - may have to get a bigger house to make up for losing the living room/shop. But that's doable.

Long and short if you live alone do whatever the heck you want.

As others have said the dust can be an issue - but it's manageable especially since you are doing hand tools. I also suggest no spraying inside the house - with the air system you'll regret every second your hand is on the spray trigger.

Good luck!


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

Betsy… sounds like your entire house is one big shop


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

All I can think of is a workbench and scantily women draped over it.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

> All I can think of is a workbench and scantily women draped over it.
> 
> - TheFridge


Don't give this bunch idea's someone will post a picture of just that.

ROFLMAO


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## nightguy (Aug 2, 2016)

Using bench hold downs like wrist and ankle stirrups!!!


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

hm….actually have a female "friend" that would do such, even wile wearing a LumberJocks.com t-shirt. But I'm sure it would not be well received here


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## nightguy (Aug 2, 2016)

> All I can think of is a workbench and scantily women draped over it.
> 
> - TheFridge
> 
> ...


Pics for a male Wood Workers Calendar, "Work Bench of the Month, with flesh added"!!!


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## nightguy (Aug 2, 2016)

> hm….actually have a female "friend" that would do such, even wile wearing a LumberJocks.com t-shirt. But I m sure it would not be well received here
> 
> - Holbs


You could PM them to us guys!!


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## nightguy (Aug 2, 2016)

Then there are leg vises!! Someone here sure opened up a whole can of worms and a lot of possibilities and fun puns!!
Kinda helps breaks the boredom from the newbie questions and"please help me fix this after the fact of not enough research before hand" or "where can I find this" that they did not Google themselves, ect.


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

dont need Cricket to ban me


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## nightguy (Aug 2, 2016)

> dont need Cricket to ban me
> 
> - Holbs


Okay back on track, I think you got all the info you needed, no spraying, good filters on the furnace, maybe an air filtration device of some sorts in the shop, ect.


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## daddywoofdawg (Feb 1, 2014)

I f your carpet is decent,I would lay 1/2" ply over the carpet.Then if you decide to sell down the road you just lift the ply up,and you have a grand worth of carpet ready for the next buyer.and you can keep the ply for your next house or shop.
I bought a old mobile home and put it in the back of the house gutted it and have a 12×70' shop for 500.00 with electric and plumbing!


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

Sorry, but I can't read all previous 54 comments…I would leave the carpeting alone - easier on your feet and if you plan to replace it one day anyway just wait. Yes, you'll have to vacuum instead of sweep but so what.

I'd also make sure no returns to a furnace are in the room. Also make sure poochies aren't allergic to dust. We had an asthmatic cat and dust is an issue to pets.


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

Dawg & Hazelton…initially, I had to remove the carpet due to pet stains/smells which I tried multiple times and multiple ways to get ride of (enzymes, baking soda/vinegar). A friend offered to replace the carpet with new flooring. Upon ripping up carpet, that is when me and my friend thought of idea of a 2nd woodshop. And the rest is history  When carpet was all gone, another idea struck me. Use the wood grain foam pads I bought long ago for when (if ever) I would have the a roubo work bench built. We laid out 40 square feet and ordered more to fill out the rest of the floor (will be here later in week).


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## Betsy (Sep 25, 2007)

yep Holbs my house is essentially a shop. About the only room that does not have any "shop like" uses is my sunroom which is my haven to go to for quite time. Nothing that makes noise goes in there - no tv, no radio, no computer, no saws, etc. But other than that every other room is open for wood, I even use the guest bathroom for assembly of little things.


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

Betsy..what do you do about tracking dust/chips on the group…or thru the air? Are rooms sealed?


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

If you were to confine your activities to carving
and perhaps things like marquetry the dust would
not be too bad.

I lived in an open loft for a time and while I had
a bench and many tools in the corner I found even
the most basic cutting of wood to make more mess
that was easy to clean up.

It can be tempting not to take the sanding outside
when in a shop inside the house…


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## Betsy (Sep 25, 2007)

Holbs - truth be told - it's hard not to track chips and dust around from one room to another. Even with dust collectors and air filtration in the main shop - it's a nonstop struggle to keep the "house" cleaned up. I do a lot of dusting and sweeping. I try not to get to wrapped up in it. I'd say if you're doing mostly hand tools inside you probably won't have a huge issue with keeping things clean. Since I do a lot of cutting boards I do a "cut week", a "glue week" and a "sanding/finishing week." I use "glue week" to do a good cleanup. The other weeks I try to keep things picked up and I have rugs from one room to the next so I try to wipe my feet as I move about. None of my rooms are sealed - it would be a HUGE job to do so with the way my house was built. My kitchen, living room, "foyer" and hall to the bedrooms is one large room with 4' tall room dividers so it is essentially an open area.

The only room I have trouble keeping clean is oddly enough is the bathroom. It seems like the throne and sink are magnets for dust. I'm sure there is a scientific reason for that - but it's certainly odd.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

> hm….actually have a female "friend" that would do such, even wile wearing a LumberJocks.com t-shirt. But I m sure it would not be well received here
> 
> - Holbs


Like hell it wouldnt


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