# Are you envious?



## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

A while ago at work, I found out that one of our manager had a wood shop.
He told me that he works on order and that he sales all his production. 
I heard from another wood worker what he does a very beautiful work.
About a month ago he told me that he was moving to a larger house and that he will have a 2400 sq.feet shop in the full daylight basement.
He paid the local Woodcraft to move all his equipment and wood stock.

This morning he told me that he just signed a contract with a contractor to improve the access to his shop and enlarge it for the modest sum of $100 000.00!
I do not complain about my money, I have enough and I am content but I cannot imagine to have this kind of cash for a hobby.


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## j_dubb (Jun 13, 2013)

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors woodshop.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Me either Bert.
Wish I could have that kind of slush fund.
But I manage to get by and am just proud to live in a country where I can control my own destiny. . . so far.

Many years ago I was on a fox hunt with some friends and we visited the studio shop of the owner of the hounds and the estate where we were hunting. This guy had a shop much nicer, and larger than my house. I was not onto woodworking back then and did not recognize the value of his tools, but I now think there must have been a few hundred carving chisels laying around, a giant band saw and many high end work benches and clamps everywhere. Turn out the guy builds and repairs carrousel horses. He had many at various stages of completion. He had a few he had made into rocking horses. These things were huge and very ornate.

Maybe one day I'll hit the lottery and have this kind of hobby.


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## Picklehead (Feb 12, 2013)

Whenever I get to feeling like that, I ask myself: "If you could roll the dice and randomly trade places with another person on the planet that the dice chose for you, would you?"


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

He earned it, good for him and may everyone

enjoy the fruits of their labor.


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## GregD (Oct 24, 2009)

It is fun to see that someone has a really nice shop. But for me, the shop I have is pretty close to the shop I want. On the one hand I want a shop that gives me the capability of doing the projects I want to do, but on the other hand I want to get good use out of everything I have. I've pretty much achieved the first goal, but I've got a long way to go on the second.


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

We all use our discretionary money in some way. Some go out to eat for lunch and dinner and spend additional $12 at Starbucks every day. That is a house payment by itself. Others buy stamps, coins, guns and so on. Very few give it to someone in need. This man has obviously increased the value of his home with that investment.


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## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

I wish I could be more creative and come up with interesting unique designs and I envy those who have this ability.I have all the basic tools that I need although 90% of them are used.
My point is it doesn't matter how big and fancy my bandsaw is ,it's use is still limited to what* I *can produce with it.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Doesn't matter what you spend on a hobby, someone's going to spend more.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

There's a fellow in my area who bought a new Omga chop
saw, Northfield #4, the latest Martin panel saw, big
jointer, etc. I reckon he must be an engineer or something 
and do the woodworking part time to drop that kind of 
dough. The work I've seen pictures of is just straight
forward kitchen cabinets with raised panels and book
shelves… the stuff you could do with $1200 worth of
used machinery. I discovered the guy when he tried
to sell the Northfield and Omga saws - his prices were 
unrealistically high because having got them new he 
was trying to get some of his money back.

Anyway, to make a point, the guy with the fancy tool
investmentment may not be doing very interesting,
technically demanding or even inspired work.

You can build some really cool stuff without a lot of
fancy tools. The machines make woodworking look
easy, but they don't replace creativity one bit.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

"The machines make woodworking look easy, but they don't replace creativity one bit" 
Very true.
The only thing I was trying to communicate is that I am surprised that someone could afford to spend that kind of money for a hobby (even if he sales his production). 
I am not envious at all especially since he is a heck of nice guy.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I do envy the big square footage and the fellow with a 
forklift though. 

I'm a little cramped but my machines do what I need
them to do well enough.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

Unless you have seen it personally, assume that there is a certain amount of smoke blowing here.

Regardless, more power to him. You can only work with what you have. Worrying about what he has accomplishes nothing. It's OK to dream, just don't live in the dream.


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## KayBee (Jul 6, 2009)

Good to hear that a nice guy has money to spare. Too often it seems it's just the jerks that have cash to spare. Must be a great shop.


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

I suppose it all depends on your goals. If you do woodworking to *produce* something, then I think you've got to be concerned with efficiency, return on investment, margin and things like that - even if you are just making furniture for your family. If there is more to it than *production* - that is, if the experience of woodworking itself is a major part of why you are doing it, then you can have that experience for very little money. I have a fair amount of stuff in my shop, but little time to enjoy the experience. So, if I would envy anybody, it would be the one who is able to make it a full-time family-sustaining profession - as long as not overwhelmed by stress working 18-hours days just to pay the bills. I have admired the LJ called "Rogue" who seemed to be doing that. I haven't seen him post here in awhile. He has his own website.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

I hope to be able to go visit his shop soon.
Monte, no smoke here. I trust the guy 100%.
At work this guy probably makes well over $200 000.00/year without counting what he makes selling his production.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

If I could afford that kind of expense, I doubt I would.

This is a hobby for me and do not sell any of my work … if I were to start selling the stuff I make, it would be too much like a job and wouldn't be fun any more.

I worked a job or ran my own business for 53 years before I retired two years ago, and have no interest in going back to work. I tell people "I had a job once … didn't like it."


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## DocBailey (Dec 9, 2011)

I have had periods in my life when I had scads of money and when I did not.
When I first found myself in the position to buy nearly anything I wanted, I bought quite a few things.

It is far less thrilling than you might guess. In no time at all, I had so much stuff that I could hardly spend any substantial amount of time with any one possession.
Here was a lathe I had not even begun to master; a high-end Harley I only rode a few times; a pool we hardly used, and on and on.
Within a year or two, I had sold and given away almost all of it.
It was during this simplification phase that I came back to hand tools.

I'm not advocating being poor, but I, personally, am much happier with fewer possessions.


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## EastLake (Mar 11, 2014)

I can't help but envy guys like Marc Spagnolo and that…Ramsay guy, who can make it a full time profession and take the time to help train rookies online. Some people just have the savvy to make it. Sounds like your boss has an abundance of time and money to put into his shop, not to mention focus.

I work at a technical college and always tell the students, "You aren't going to make it big doing one thing for someone else. You have to mind your business." A good paying job pays for good toys, but as long as you are working for someone else, they determine what your worth is. It's the other 16 hours of the day that help determine your long term success.


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## PaulDoug (Sep 26, 2013)

I'm happy with my little shop. More space would be nice, but for just hobby, I'm okay.


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## Racer2007 (Jan 13, 2011)

No envy at all about the expensive tools or large shop space, what I would envy if he has it ,is the ability to put that all to use and come out with some great projects. I have seen and heard of people that sell the stuff they make(with expensive tools and cheap tools both) but I have also seen the stuff and would not buy it myself.


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## ssnvet (Jan 10, 2012)

It isn't just woodworking Bert,

My boss flies to New Zealand to compete in Iron Man triathlons and rides a bicycle that costs more than many people's cars….. He also has a cigarette boat with dual V8s that burns something like 100 gal of gas per hour.

There are a lot of very wealthy people in this country, most of whom are executives, or own their own businesses. Then again, there's quite a few who inherit it from their wife's daddy too.

I'm more or less in the same boat as Greg, in that I have finally (after some 4 years of dedicated effort) finished and set up my 450 sq.ft. basement workshop the way I want it. Now I just want more time to make things and build my skills.


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## ScottC (Apr 6, 2010)

It's not just a hobby if he takes orders and sells all of his work.

I hear what you are saying. It can be an expensive hobby but it doesn't have to be. And, the expensive tools and toys don't produce the pieces, the person does.

I have a pretty nice hobby/homeowner shop now but there are lots of ways I wish I could improve it.


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## BikerDad (Jul 16, 2008)

"The only thing I was trying to communicate is that I am surprised that someone could afford to spend that kind of money for a hobby (even if he sales his production). "

Hobbies come in all sorts of price ranges, and within each hobby a wide range of expenditure is possible. Compared to somebody with a hobby involving horses, boats, cars or planes, your manager fellow is spending peanuts. Compared to somebody whose hobby is whittling (total cost: a pocketknife and a stone) or walking, he's throwing money around like a drunken Rockefeller, but then, so is pretty much everybody else on this board.

Don't forget also that for many folks attracted to woodworking and similar "manual arts", there's often an element of the shop itself as a hobby. Obviously, how much this dynamic plays differs from person to person, but I've seen it time and time again in others and in myself.

Last, in this particular situation, the guy's not really "spending" that 100k on his hobby, not in the sense we normally think of hobby spending. It's not a lost cost. He's making improvements to his home, and much of the cost will be realized in increased home value. Not all of it, of course, but a lot.

The nice thing for you is, there's a good chance you may be about to establish a woodworking buddy relationship. Bounce ideas off one another, help each other on big projects, etc. This is a good thing.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Not at all envious, good on him!


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

I am a sinner, but envy is not one of them. There are a lot of rich people who spend lots of money on their hobbies and interests. Doctors, lawyers, tycoons, celebrities can afford it. I know a doctor who has a house full of trains. Jay Leno collects antique cars. If I were rich, I would have a complete machine shop and a woodworking shop. I could go through 100 G's in the blink of an eye. I wish I had Bill Gates money, but I don't envy him. I'll bet I'm just as happy or more than he is with much less.


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

Rich, poor, fat, skinny, pretty, ugly, short or tall; as long as you are a descent human being, you are A.O.K by me.


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## PineChopper (May 21, 2012)

Two weeks ago, I made just over $100 at the local swap meet and thought I did good for a change.
In you managers case, I guess I would be a bit envious of his luck and/or skill.
At least on the skill side of things, I'm always working on ways to improve mine.
Now if my luck would just change a little for the better…...


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## InstantSiv (Jan 12, 2014)

If he's doing woodworking to make money it's not a hobby. You shouldn't waste your feelings on this.


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## teejk (Jan 19, 2011)

Perspective! I know a few wild sheep hunters. Several years ago the Association decided to hold their annual convention in Philly. I was working not far from there at the time so my friends invited me to drive down and join. I sat through the auction process and soon learned not to scratch my nose or raise my hand or even move my head…the state harvest permits were selling for $50,000-$125,000 each. That was just the permit…didn't include guides or travel or room/board. One of the guys had 1/2 interest in a twin engine airplane which costs a lot more than buying/maintaining a hamster.


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## lightcs1776 (Nov 14, 2013)

There will always be someone who seems to have it all. I have a little 11; x 12' workshop. I'm happy with it. Would I like a bigger shop? Of course. However, having a 1100' x 1200' show wouldn't make my life more complete. I'm all for someone else having it if they want to put the work into it.


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## Woodbum (Jan 3, 2010)

Not in the least envious. We are comfortable now. Have been poor and worked my ass off to get what we've got. I never cared about being rich. I work for people that have a whole boatload of money and spend it freely. Sort of sounds like this guy. But theirs is real. My BS detector is going off. This sounds almost too good to be true. This guy might be jerking you around. Just my opinion and I could be wrong.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

"If he's doing woodworking to make money it's not a hobby" 
He is not, he is a manager where I work and he does woodworking for sanity. 
He sales what he makes and he also works on order.
He does need this money to live.
The company which we work for, pays us every well and he is a manager, he makes plenty money.


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## HillbillyShooter (Feb 15, 2012)

Not in the least-I like to see people succeed and enjoy the fruits of that success!


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## InstantSiv (Jan 12, 2014)

I'm sorry b2rtch but you're not making any sense. You say on one hand he makes a lot of money at his regular job and does woodworking as a hobby. You then go on to say that he sells everything he makes and also takes orders to make money because, as you say, he does need this money to live.

What is it? Is he spending $100,000 on a hobby?

Or

Is he spending $100,000 to expand his business?

2 very very different things.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Typo, it should have read " he does *not* need this money to live"


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

I would say I don't envy the guy but I wouldn't knock him either. Nice tool are nice and if you got the money why not?

How many of you use a 30 thousand dollar pickup truck to haul lumber when you could do it with a 500 dollar beater? Same thing.


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## CudaDude (Jan 30, 2012)

Envious??? No way… I dig having my shop small enough that anytime I need something I can pretty much turn around and grab it or take a few steps to it. I don't think I'd like having to walk across a larger shop shop to grab something I might need, but I'm not all that organized either. Might not be a problem for others.


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## InstantSiv (Jan 12, 2014)

Then why is he not doing woodworking as a hobby for himself but for others in exchange for money? It doesn't make sense to me. This is the only thing that does make sense to me, if he's treating it as a business than spending $100,000 might not be crazy… it might make sense for him to spend that kind of money in order to continue to make money.

@alaskaguy… UM NO! Air conditioning is well worth the extra $29,500, especially for us down here in the south.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Of course most of us say would like a larger shop and all of the best of equipment made on the planet, but I feel that I need to be grateful for what I have now ,many folks would like to have a shop like mine or for that matter a shop at all.
If your friend can afford a 100 k shop more power to him.


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

Do I wish I had $100k to spend on shop upgrades? Sure. Would I? Probably not…


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Good on him, I say. No envy for a $100K shop, not even something I aspire to.


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## natenaaron (Jun 24, 2013)

Hey Loren

I resemble this guy "I do envy the big square footage and the fellow with a
forklift though. "

IMO everybody needs a forklift. As for the tools all of my tools would fit very well and be more efficient in a smaller space. A large space can become a curse. If my tools procreated like the junk it would be another story, but alas the tools remain celibate. I am actually looking to down size the shop area this summer.

If I were in business the accuracy and time savings found in top of the line equipment would be worth the investment. Since this is a hobby the only piece of expensive equipment I feel I need is a table saw. And this is just for the safety features not present on lower end models. I got really big scars on my fingers that that are a reminder of the need for these features.

The only thing I envy about those folks who can afford this stuff is the time they seem to have to dedicate to their hobby. I have been working 2 jobs for the last 6 years and it sucks.


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## C_PLUS_Woodworker (Jun 10, 2010)

*GregD* in #5 above expressed my thoughts perfectly:

"But for me, the shop I have is pretty close to the shop I want."

I have what I want, and use what I have.

Happy and content and blessed ............... after 30 years of making-do.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

Amen Loren!

When you see what impoverished wood craftsmen of the third world can produce from almost nothing, some of it of amazing beauty and craftsmanship, it makes the rest of us humble. Fancy powerful machines and expensive and beautiful tools don't make a craftsman. But . . . they are nice to have! 

Planeman


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

Bert

I would like to see his shop.

On the money part I rely on the VA monthly for my small portion. The VA never pays enough to really get anything but it is nice looking.


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

I have worked two jobs my whole life. I have B+ to A- equipment, while I have the stuff, I don't always have the time. But my envy is to anyone that has adequete room in a dedicated shop….there is were I am envious….I am tired of cleaning up and moving everything back. 
However, I must say, I have a good life and a fine family, I will always be happy with those….a woodworking shop pales in comparison to that kind of happiness.
I always enjoys your posts Bert!!! Thanks!
Mike


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Personally I am not envious of my friend.
I am glad that he can afford to do what he wants to do.
I am just amazed that someone ( who is not a billionaire) can invest this kind of cash in a hobby.
Even if I already could use more space, I have a nice shop and I am very grateful for it.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Thank you Mike.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Arlin, I hope to get invited to see the shop one of these days.
My friend has just moved in a house and the shop is in full daylight basement, it is 2400 sq.feet.
I tried to get my friend to register on LJ to show his work, no luck so far.
Another wood worker where I work ( who also has a very large shop with only "old" big iron machines ie a 18" jointer and a 24" planer), saw pictures of his work and I have been told that he does a really beautiful work.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

b2rtch, Maybe making money is his hobby. If all I had was $100K, I wouldn't spend it all on a shop. A million; maybe yes; I could spare $100K.


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## TedW (May 6, 2012)

I feel that envy is a waste of time and dare I say even a weakness. There will always be somebody with more-money, skill, looks, luck, whatever. Sure, I'd love to have an awesome work shop with every high-end tool I could wish for, but I don't have that. Heck Bert, I don't even have anything near as nice a shop as you have. But I do have my health, a roof over my head, a few good friends, some skills, etc… and there are plenty of people who are envious of me. Go figure, eh?


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## TedW (May 6, 2012)

Oops, I really should not take breaks while typing posts


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

"I support the 28th Amendment. http://www.wolf-pac.com/28th" 
Amen


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

All I have is a small 1 car garage and yes I long for a bigger shop or dedicated shop so when I teach Vets or anyone else how to turn or use hand tools 2 people are not crowded.

Arlin


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## doordude (Mar 26, 2010)

Then he has money to burn on a new shop and some tools. It's probably not do to his production work at all.
I was going to say, before Bert said he makes $200K a year; is that he inherited some extra cash; that's he's not telling you about.


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## mbs (May 8, 2010)

I enjoy using nice tools and working in a safe, somewhat organized and comfortable shop. I also enjoy searching for good deals. if you get a good deal on a tool then 75% of the cost will likely come back to you when you sell it.

One of my favorite LJ forums is workshops. People have very unique ways of organizing their shops.

I don't know who said it already but I hate moving stuff to get to a tool. I agree with Doc. You can have too much stuff such that you either don't use some of it, or can't find it, or spend too much time maintaining it.


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## Woodbum (Jan 3, 2010)

Bert: I guess I have to go back to an old saying that in this post applies to me and several others "anybody that says money doesn't matter doesn't have any" Amen to that for me


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## msamara (May 11, 2014)

His shop should be visited.
I hope to have the same.


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

I too am vey happy with my woodshop. and machine shop.Both different buildings.I built them when I was younger and fitter and did everything,wiring double glazing with some windows I was given free LOL . And central heat from my house.I sometimes nowadays don't have the energy to do a lot, but what I can, I enjoy. Also my sons do all the heavy stuff and as my Doctor said ENJOY.And I do. I don't want anything different to what I built myself and am very content and as said happy with what I have, both buildings tools and machinery.I feel like a little king in my work shops LOL .I sometimes just potter around and if I make something it takes along time but what's the hurry. LOL Quite content, and I hope all of my buddies here are too ,that's after all what it's all about.Alistair


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Scotsman, I am happy for you.


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

I'm not envious of him. I have only what I tolerate in terms of space and tools. Meaning that I want to have more space, but as far as tools go, I have pretty much what I need at this time. I hope to retire soon. The only addition I would be making is to add a Saw Stop table saw to my trove of tools. I want to make a bunch of things that require a table saw, and I'm at a point where I have to consider finger loss more carefully. I have an old contractor size saw that can hurt me in a heartbeat, so I am extremely attentive while using it. No matter how attentive, accidents can still happen. I can't afford a slider, even though it strikes me as a better option.


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## TedW (May 6, 2012)

I lied… I'm envious. I would like to have it all and when I see that somebody else has it all, I become envious.


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## 6mmBR (Sep 29, 2014)

I'd love to have a large shop with both wood and metal working tools. It just isn't in the cards for me. But I'm just fine with other people's large shops. It gives me ideas on what to do in a small shop, you can always get good ideas from another person's shop.

I made a pretty good living, not in that class though. No complaints here. I recently retired, and am enjoying that immensely. When I need a tool, the first thing I hit is Craigslist. It works for me.

One problem I have is I have many interests. It causes a lack of focus sometimes.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Yeah. There are some cats on Practical Machinest
who seem to have it all in terms of tools. There's
that one guy, his name escapes me, who is reputed
to be the world's best planemaker. Not that it's a
competition to build the best thing in the world, 
it's building the best thing you can with your skills
and tooling… and then there's price points of 
course. Philip Marcou is a member here and his
planes are pretty sweet too.


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## bobro (Oct 24, 2014)

Pretty soon I should be able to afford an extension cord long enough to go out to my workshop in the concrete shed. Just for a light in winter. Then all ll I need is that poster of Nastassia Kinski and the anaconda and I'll have the best workshop in the world.

Plenty of people sniff a hundred grand up their nose, or drop it on the horses, every year. If I met a guy with a quarter of a million sunk into his woodworking shop, I'd say good for you, man- money well spent.


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## muleskinner (Sep 24, 2011)

Am I envious of a full blown shop filled with top of the line equipment? Sitting here at the computer, you bet you're bippy I am. Who wouldn't be. But you know what? When I'm out in my two car garage/shop with my used but adequate tools, other shops never cross my mind.


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## sawdust703 (Jul 6, 2014)

I don't waste my time on envy. It does nothing but create hate & discontent! If the feller has the cash to drop into improvements, that's his affair, not mine. I drove OTR for 35 years, & have worked for everything we have. And am very grateful for what I have!!! It is all paid for. My health has failed me twice in my life, my wife & I have managed to endure both of those intense storms, & still keep goin'. Our home is Ours. & paid for. My shop is a rented retired beauty shop. No, it ain't the most shiny lookin' shop, but it suits me to the ground!! My tools are not all new & shiny, nor are they all of one certain name brand, but, they are ours, well maintained, & do everything I ask of them. I do wood working as a hobby, full time, to maintain my sanity, to keep out of the pool hall, among other reasons. I also take on orders for wood work. Does that make it a business? I doubt it. Is it anybody elses' affair? absolutely not! And don't misunderstand me, It's not that you're never welcome in my humble shop, because most anyone is, at any time, but what goes on in my shop, stays there. I'm not an expert wood worker, I'm self taught. I do ask an experienced friend when I get myself in a tight, but as a rule, I mind my own affairs.


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