# Can I pick your brain? The problem with pine is:



## GCotton78 (Dec 28, 2011)

I have a construction background and the wood that I am generally cutting up and fastening together is usually pine. However as I look with wide eyes and dropped jaw at all these gorgeous projects that people create and post on here, I have to ask (to cure my own ignorance), why not pine? What is the difference and the nature of it that causes people to not use it? Is there a style of furniture that is typically made out of pine? Or is it just only pretty much good for building homes? 
I would love to get your opinion and experience. Thank you very much for any input!

Gabe


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

here in new mexico
'south western' style is dominant

pine is used mostly as it is so abundant
and the style is very simple to make

we see locals selling their wares
out of their pick-ups
on the side of the road
made with nothing more
than skill saws and driver drills
and sheet rock screws
with splotched house paint

seems the more 'beat up' 
the work is
the more the yuppies like it


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

I like pine for utilitarian stuff and I've seen some really nice projects here in pine. It's just so soft that I end up beating it to death in the process of building. It's a nice wood, though.


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## hydrohillbilly (Jan 28, 2012)

Here is what I did with some old pine flooring Gabe


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## jerrells (Jul 3, 2010)

I think you question is "can I use pine for small boxes" and the like. Why not. I have used it and must always watch for the straightness of the wood. I, also, worry about it over time but perhaps that is just me. Try a few pieces and see how you like it. Post when finished.


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

In "My Projects" I have a wall unit built in pine(2 pictures click to see the finished product) Unfortunatly when I got done with it my wife decided to paint it!
I find nothing wrong with pine. Just remember to use a blocker before trying to stain it.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

Funny you should ask, I'm building a pine taboret right now. I like it well enough that I use it occasionally. It has it's problems though. Being soft and can be very fussy to stain, on the other hand it is cheap and easy to get. I use it quite bit in my shop furniture. For me whether I use pine or not comes down to how much effort I am going to put into a project. For a big project taking many hours, I will want the finished piece to be hardwood.


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## jaykoh (Mar 16, 2012)

we use pine for small cabinets, shelves, and other small projects. For the most part we distress and paint our projects. we make a lot of items for our daughter's store. In fact we just made a dining table out of pine, we distressed and stained it - turned out beautiful. we are new to lumberjocks - i will try to get some pictures up of some of our projects. Kaye


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Our kitchen has many pine pieces that I made. We have an old house and love the look of it there. I skip the "distressing" step - I have two boys aged 8 and 10! Actually, I think that these pieces have stood up well over the past few years that some have been around.

If you have access to a library, check out The Pine Furniture of Early New England by Russell Hawes Kettell.


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

I have made small boxes of pine and they do not sell. Folks want hardwood or cedar. I have used some pine in making intarsia projects and in making toys. It does not machine well so it requires a bit of sanding .


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## petemohr (Dec 11, 2009)

I made this out of SYP 2×10's from Home Depot


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## Bluepine38 (Dec 14, 2009)

Check out RockyBlue's projects here on Lumberjocks if you want to see pine put to good use.


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## GCotton78 (Dec 28, 2011)

Well it is good to get all this input! Thanks everybody!

Please post links to your pine projects, or at least pictures if you can on here!

I find that budget wise pine is the most viable material for me at this point, but lately I had been getting a sense that it is regarded as a type of wood that should be avoided if your project wanted to be taken seriously. (For the record, not from anyone on this site…just comments from woodworkers in passing)
So it is good to see that it has a home too.

Again, thank you for all the responses so far, please feel free to post links and pictures, and keep them coming!


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## kepy (Mar 5, 2012)

I do mostly scrolling and have used a lot of pine. There is a lot of difference in pine though. My preference is Eastern white pine. It cuts cleaner and sands smoother.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Here are some pine pieces I've made:
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/30304
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/51682
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/53869


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## GCotton78 (Dec 28, 2011)

Wow, you guys have made some great stuff!

*Russell*, I like it, flooring on the wall!

*Pete*, That is a beautiful chair! I was at a "St. Louis Woodworker's Guild" meeting last night and a guy there was showing off a rocking chair that he had made out of walnut and a few other various hardwoods that is similar to yours in style. Good to see that pine can come out looking just as good!

*Chuck*, Those are some really nice pieces! When I get the chance I am going to have to take a longer look at them. I would be curious to hear your (and everyone else's) opinion on the difference between working with pine (as in joinery, dadoes, rabbits, etc.) vs other types of wood.

Again, thanks for all the knowledge and sharing going on here, I really appreciate it! Keep it coming!


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## Gregn (Mar 26, 2010)

Our backgrounds are similar in going from construction into woodworking. I've started out with pine as a beginning woodworker and still use quite a bit of pine.

Pine like any other wood has its own characteristic in how its worked. Anything can be made from pine that you want to make. While pine can be tricky to work with there are some things you can do to make pine pleasant to work with.

1. Because pine is a soft wood with the exception of Yellow Pine. You will want to be sure that your tools are sharp. The fibers in pine will crush and create rough edges when worked with tools that are not sharp.

2. Just about any kind of joinery you want to use can be done with pine, again sharp tools with make the difference in your joinery.

3. While pine dings easily it is also just as easy to remove them without a lot of sanding.

4. Finishing pine can be tricky and is prone to blotching. Using a pre-stain conditioner/wood conditioner before staining. I have found oil base stains work the best for me.

Following these simple guidelines will make pine a joy to work with.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

For joinery, and I'm specifically thinking of handcut dovetails, pine is prone to splitting if the joints are too tight, but also more forgiving before that tipping point because of its ability to compress. Oak = no give in that regard, for example. Pine compresses, walnut too, but a little less so. And so on.

Sometimes a challenge to control cuts (chisel or handsaw) in SYP because of the hard grain runs.

"Country" furniture is often pine. I like the stuff. Lots of variety within the wood type, too. Good post, Gabe.


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## canadianchips (Mar 12, 2010)

The type of wood that is used varies across the country. When I lived out WEST "Mahogany" then "Oak" was the lumber people envied. When I moved here, Maple, Walnut & CHERRY "the king now "are the lumber they want. Peoples wealth seems to dictate what lumber they want (or can afford) because pine was plentiful the settlers used it for most of their necessary furniture.This left a stigma that pine was cheap & only for the poor, a rich family uses better lumber ? Times have changed (thankfully) people are buying pine furniture to decorate that SPACE !
I love working with it !


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

I like pine; it has a beautiful warm glow to it after it has aged a few years. I made a coffee table out of pine back when my tool collection consisted of a mitre saw and a hammer; it is still one of my favourite projects. 
I don't like that pine is so soft though, nor do I get the same amount of excitement from its grain pattern as compared to a nice figured piece of walnut.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

When I am choosing pieces of pine for dovetailed drawers, I am especially careful about the areas that will have the joinery cut in them. I make sure that there are no knots where I will be cutting the dovetails. Also, I try to choose pieces with the tightest growth rings possible.

I found a source of Eastern White pine that is harvested in northern NH. I have found that this pine is the best to work with. The growth rings are much tighter than those in pine harvested farther south in New England where I live. The colder the temperature, the slower the tree grows.


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## GregD (Oct 24, 2009)

Since I got my planer and jointer I prefer to use poplar for my "cheap" material. Bought rough cut it isn't so expensive and I fine it easier to work and less frustrating than pine in many situations. Particularly when I'm trying to learn how to do something new. But when the joinery is relatively simple (for me), pine works just fine.

Trying to use construction grade pine or fir is more challenging. Great for beefy yet simple structures that can be assembled soon after machining before the wood moves too much. But that stuff really does like to bend and twist when you first bring it home. Maybe Pete can build an awesome rocking chair from some 2×10s from Home Depot, but I bet that says more about Pete's skill than the ease of working that material. I bet the build is a lot easier with a more stable (if expensive) material.


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

Not sure where you are looking, pine gets used in a LOT of projects… Southern Yellow Pine tends to be a favorite around here as it grows like a weed around Texas…

There are some issues with pine that need to be watched out for, that aren't present, or quite as pronounced as with pine…

#1. Pine has a LOT of pitch / resin that other woods may not have, this tends to cause an awful lot of cleanup of bits and blades compared to working with say Oak, or Walnut…
#2. Pine is typically, although not always, sold fairly wet. It is not very common to find kiln dried pine. It exists for sure, but, well most pine I see folks work with starts out as cheap construction grade 2x stock. I use a LOT of 2×4s, 2×8s and 2×12s for various projects… This stuff can, and often does twist pretty badly as it dries. Not usually a problem in construction, but a HUGE issue with furniture and cabinet making. Your best bet is to sticker a stock of pine on your lumber racks for a couple of years until it is good and dry, and THEN work with it…
#3. The grain on pine tends to vary a lot in color, especially when finished.
#4. Pine has a reputation for being "cheap" and / or "rustic". Mind you, Pine is also what a large percentage of antiques are made from. Again this varies by region, and yes, pines typically were cleared from rural settings and seed, or fruit bearing hardwoods planted in their place, so the pine tended to be used a LOT in rustic / rural pieces. Depending on your style nowadays, that can be either awful, or exactly the look you are going for. I tend to lean HEAVILY toward country / rustic / Santa Fe / Mission styles so pine is a prime candidate. Let's face it, you don't see many Texas woodworkers knocking stuff out of Maple, mostly because Maples aren't native to here, but you WILL see a lot of Southern Yellow Pine, Pecan, and Mesquite, not to mention various oaks, and cedars..


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## Everett1 (Jun 18, 2011)

i believe a lot of american colonial stuff was mainly made of Pine.

I don't typically use it since it's so dang soft and will dent if you look at it wrong.


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## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

Pine is fine for many woodworking projects. It does have it's limitations, but then again all species of wood have their limitations when use one way or another. It's good for beginners to use because it's cheap and easy on the cutters. When cut into smaller it's not as strong as hardwoods.

I like to sometimes mix different species of wood and pine is among some of my favorite because of the color. Gabe you ask for some photos or links to some of the projects we make with pine so here's some of mine.

I made this from longleaf pine that was once an outbuilding at a feed mill on the Comel river









This is some spruce pine fir that I used to refurbish a friends metal porch swing.










And here some of the pine from my projects page
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/43273
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/43272
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/59780
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/43098


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## cblak (Mar 16, 2012)

The problem with pine is that it is considered a softwood and it is difficult to finish (very prone to blotching when stained) Don't buy it from a home store. Most of their pine is for rough construction and is not dried properly. If it is you will probably pay a premium for it. Properly dried pine is usually designated for interior furniture parts (drawer sides, runners, etc.) If you want to get professional results i would strongly recommend using a hardwood such as oak. It stains very evenly and is not hard on the wallet. Poplar is also considered a hardwood and is the best choice if you want to paint it. Your best bet for quality wood at a decent price is your local sawmill.


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

*darrell *that is one sweet butcher block !

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here is a pine dining set









and here is some with alder









and some with redwood









and some with paint in shallow dadoes


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## redryder (Nov 28, 2009)

Pine is fine…................

here:


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## Tomj (Nov 18, 2011)

Yew is a soft wood, not a Pine but is stronger and denser than many hardwoods. Problem is finding a good piece with out any knots or just finding it period. Douglas Fir is also as strong as mid-dense hardwoods when you can find old growth trees of it, the heartwood is also beautiful. Softwoods/ pines/ firs are great for practicing your skills on when you don't want to mess up a good piece of hardwood.


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

*Hey Gabe:*

I Love working with Pine! Primarily Canadian White Pine. Unlike some of the other Posters I find working with it Very Easy. It Stains well with Minwax Oil Based Stain. Does* NOT Blotch *and a Natural Finish (Clear, Poly Only), ages nicely over time.

Up here in Ontario at any rate ALL the Framing of a House is Spruce. NOT a nice wood for finishing work in any way. A lot of Builders are now using "Blue Wood" as a framing material.

The pictures are of my Front Room. *Both Tables are 100% Pine.* The Coffee Table is "Shelving Grade" 1" (3/4") Pine from Home Depot. I also like Knots, I feel it adds Character to the piece. One Narrow piece in the Center, Two Wider Pieces on each side. Joined with 2 full length Splines.

*"Don't EVER throw any kind of wood away!"* Why? The 2 Splines with Perfectly Rounded Edges (Pine) came from the Bottom of* 2 Old Pull Down Blinds *that I threw away for some new ones!

Four Dado Cuts for all three boards, on edge, centered, run through the Table saw, Regular Blade ….Perfect Fit for the Splines and room for the Carpenters Glue.

The Top of the "Sofa Table" up against the wall was made from *Rough, Bush Cut Pine I found lying at the side of the Road.* I wanted to Preserve the lines of what measured out to be, apprx. a 4' Dia. Bush Saw. Finish is as smooth as Baby's Bum and the lines are still quite visible.

OH! The Wall Niche is built between 2"x6" Spruce, Supporting, Wall Studs it's also Pine, Mirrored back, and Glass Shelves.

Just checked "My Documents"..... Forgot I WAS going to do a "Project" on these, but didn't.

The Pictures are as follows *1-* Two Tables and Niche. *2-* Coffee Table. *3-* Sofa Table. *4- *Close up of Top showing Bush Saw Cutting Marks. *5-* Piece of Original Rough Pine. Yes. Those are Tire Marks ….LOL…
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Regards: Rick


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## GCotton78 (Dec 28, 2011)

Wow, what a bunch of great, inspiring projects! Nice job everybody!

Thank you for all the contributions to this. I am truly inspired by all of you. Now I won't feel like I'm slumming when I'm running that pine 1×6 through the table saw. You have all opened my eyes to the nature of this type of wood an given me a sense of acceptance of it in the woodworking world.
Thank you! And feel free to continue to post pine projects on here.


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## GCotton78 (Dec 28, 2011)

And thanks also for all the tips! I am very grateful for all the knowledge that has been shared here.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

All pine. I used Charles Neil's pre color conditioner and the finish is great.


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

Gabe: *"And thanks also for all the tips!" *

Your Totally Welcome Gabe. Always OUR Pleasure!! Right Guys & Gals???


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## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

You are welcome Gabe, hope to see some of your projects posted soon.

Thank you *David*, I took the picture with my cell phone. It's a little blurry, the reason I never posted it as a project. I posted it here because it does show the different colors you can expect from pine. BTW the 4×4s were black from oxidation when the owner brought them to me. Now I need to go see more of that round pine and alder table top you did, it's awesome


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## CharlieJr (Mar 18, 2012)

Dear Gabe:

When my kids were small and our household budget was tight(still is) , I build beds for the kids(they were big enough for adults too) and used pine and just put on a couple of water based poly coats. Now 20 years later, I am proud of my beds and they can be taken apart and moved pretty easily. I like the ease of working with pine and the pretty knots. Pine is easy to use with woodburning tools. I made some shelves and other furniture later to match and I started using spruce, which is a litte more expensive but takes a stain well and does not have large knots.

Also in the 50's my dad used pine tongue and grove 12 inch wide decorative boards to wall our dining room(top to bottom) It was stained and the knots were beautiful when finished. I havent seen those in years.

Best wishes.

Charlie B.


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

Hey Charlie:

I know the T&G Pine your Dad used very well. We did a couple of Cottage renos and the Interiors where that Pine. Think then it was called "Pickwick Pine". Straight Up & Down and one at a 45 Degree Angle.

Last time I looked they were available at a Mill around the corner from me as Single T&G and "Two In One" as I call it.

Think I have some Profiles on here …...Yep! 2 Singles and "Clipped" Page of all.
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More of a Selection than I thought. GOOD Looking Panelling. Eh What??

Rick


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## wee3 (Mar 6, 2012)

White pine is rite up in price,with the hardwoods,in the northeast.dings to easy,i think.


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