# Stanley planes on ebay.com : "Adios !!!"



## mikey78 (Jan 4, 2017)

Hello guys,
I'm from Italy and from time to time I like buying pre WWII Stanley planes on ebay.com .
In the past I never had a problem and,
I have to say that USA vintage tools sellers are very nice people to deal with,
you guys are great !!!
I have bought some very nice planes from USA but looks like now is the end of an era />In the last two auctions I participated I was the best bidder and so I was very excited because
I was about to receive some long sought after planes . . .
First was purchased 3 months ago the second one a few weeks later,
none of the two ever reached Italy !!!
Both hand planes were shipped through Ebay International shipping programm ,
which I do not regreat because it had already delivered me 6/7 very fine handplanes,
both where confiscated during the transit, such a shame !!!
I contacted sellers and they could only say that there was a problem with wood handles … That's all !!!
I made some research and discovered that rosewood has been entered ( from 1st january 2017)
in the appendix II of the Cites (http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/rosewoods-bubinga-really-banned-cites/)
How can this happen ??? I'm in tears !!!
What do you think/know about this situation ? 
Is there any chance to get those planes delivered to Italy anymore !!!


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

What a load of crap! Somebody in customs now has a couple of good planes to play with.
I guess that means that a workman can't travel across borders with his planes????
Mickey, I feel your pain.
Bill


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

I think I heard mention of wrinkles like this being worked out so that vintage tools don't get confiscated, but with this kind of bureaucracy it could take a while to fix if ever.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

That's wrong in so many ways.


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## TravisH (Feb 6, 2013)

I don't think it is a ban just that restrictions apply for export and potentially import (forms filled out and I am sure money) for these designated species.

Man has this amazing ability to completely destroy something because they enjoy it so much. Leaves us in a precarious position of governing the wants or needs of people. Always an interesting subject as so many viewpoints, beliefs, and takes on the subject.


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

Nobody is cutting down rosewood trees to make 100-year-old planes.

And if rosewood is $75 / board foot, it would seem that folks would be planting a lot of those trees anywhere they will grow (if the government is stable enough there to insure that somebody will not steal your trees before your grandchildren get to cut them.).

So, the fix is to ask the seller to remove the handles. You can make your own from local timber or buy totes and knobs made from more ordinary stuff. It will still be a nice old plane. Cost more, but half a loaf at double the price is better than none, right?

-Paul


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

Coincidentally, I read about this problem very recently because I sold a few planes on eBay and one bidder was outside the U.S., where I am. He didn't win, or else he might have had the same problem. It sounds like you're out of luck, unfortunately.



> it is no longer possible to send a common Stanley Bailey type 11 plane to any member state in the European Union or any other country that has signed the CITES (Convention of International Trade in Exotic Species) agreement. A friend recently had two Bailey planes confiscated by British and French customs officials after eBay sales to legitimate buyers and through the Global Shipping Program and without recourse or appeal. Though buyer and seller both were compensated by eBay, the antique planes were sent to customs hell, never to be heard from, seen or used again.


https://www.plane-dealer.com/single-post/2017/03/25/The-Brazilian-Rosewood-Dilemma


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

Wow! The plane-dealer.com site is incredibly difficult to read. Very little contrast between text and background.

I found that I could highlight the text as if to do a "copy/paste" and it's much more readable that way.



> Coincidentally, I read about this problem very recently because I sold a few planes on eBay and one bidder was outside the U.S., where I am. He didn t win, or else he might have had the same problem. It sounds like you re out of luck, unfortunately.
> 
> it is no longer possible to send a common Stanley Bailey type 11 plane to any member state in the European Union or any other country that has signed the CITES (Convention of International Trade in Exotic Species) agreement. A friend recently had two Bailey planes confiscated by British and French customs officials after eBay sales to legitimate buyers and through the Global Shipping Program and without recourse or appeal. Though buyer and seller both were compensated by eBay, the antique planes were sent to customs hell, never to be heard from, seen or used again.
> 
> ...


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

Because of your post, I went on ebay today and bought a couple of rosewood turning blanks. Not Brazilian, but close enough - just in case I need to make a plane knob.


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## bobasaurus (Sep 6, 2009)

The CITES rules are kind of insane when it comes to antiques like this. Anything obviously older than the ban should be exempt, or at least have a simple waver that can be filled out.


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

> Wow! The plane-dealer.com site is incredibly difficult to read. Very little contrast between text and background.
> 
> - Ocelot


Ha, no kidding. 
Anyway, I agree that this all-out ban is utter nonsense.


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## mitch_56 (Feb 7, 2017)

Unless you're just in it for the rosewood, just have the sellers remove the tote and knob, and then make or buy replacements yourself

If you need the original tote and knob for collecting purposes, you could have the seller ship the tote and knob separate from the plane, and declared as (e.g.) "dark-stained oak"-no customs clown is going to know the difference.


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

I would stick to factual descriptions in shipping. Just say "old tool handles". Maybe ship with some other old tool handles.



> Unless you re just in it for the rosewood, just have the sellers remove the tote and knob, and then make or buy replacements yourself
> 
> If you need the original tote and knob for collecting purposes, you could have the seller ship the tote and knob separate from the plane, and declared as (e.g.) "dark-stained oak"-no customs clown is going to know the difference.
> 
> - mitch_56


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## mikey78 (Jan 4, 2017)

This thing is killing me,
what's the point of buying a vintage Stanley without handles,
tote and knob are an integral part of the value of a plane. 
I have to resign myself to the idea that a big part of my collecting activity
has come suddenly and unfairly to an end.
But this thing is gonna hurt you guys more than me,
I think this is going to be a huge problem that kills someone
that lives trading vintage tools !!!


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## JCamp (Nov 22, 2016)

It's not just handplane handles it's guitars too. The government raided Gibson a few years ago An took all their rosewood An fined them. I talked to a guitar guy and I don't know if he was making crap up but he said rosewood trees grow everywhere along the equator and that south America just put harsh laws against the harvest of the trees because land owners ground was more valuable as farm ground so that were cutting down hundreds of thousands of acres for farming An the governments didn't want to loose all the vegetation Once again that's what the guy said but seemed reasonable. I know in the guitar community ppl talk a lot about "Brazilian" rosewood I hav a rosewood guitar but can't tell u the difference between mine and a "Brazilian" one


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## BigYin (Oct 14, 2011)

Try sending a knife with "Ivory Micarta Handle scales". (layered paper and plastic resin looks like ivory but dont crack, split, chip. the customs sticker said "knife". Customs opened package and saw ivory … the lable said Ivory Micarta, customs siezed knife and sent threatening letter I suggested they google ivory micarta and then prosecute me for sending plastic handled knife. They returned the knife with out comment


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

It's a big problem. Even shipping to and from Canada.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Luckily most of us found out through eBay global, where both the buyer and seller where confiscated. If a shipment goes directly through customs, not only will you not be confiscated, the seller can actually be fined. I haven't heard of anyone being fined yet, but they will confiscated the entire shipment. Put one rosewood handle in a larger shipment, risk loosing the whole shipment.


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## Just_Iain (Apr 5, 2017)

The ban is real! I purchased several planes from the US for delivery to Canada and eBay cancelled both orders without telling me why. Fortunately I have a friend I'm seeing soon who took delivery in the US. So I'll get my Stanley 45(s) at last (the eBay seller's package had two 45's with no blades). I won a fairly complete set of Stanley 45 blades on eBay because the seller labelled them wrong.

Thankfully, I can import in person up to set amount of Rosewood so I get to dodge it by bringing them back myself.


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## mikey78 (Jan 4, 2017)

Hello guys I need some help from you in order to keep my hand plane collection growing !!!
Here there are some easy question about blades and handles sizes :
Are totes and knobs on Stanley Bailey planes n° 5, 6 and 7 the same size/dimension ?
Are blades on Stanley Bailey planes n° 5, 6 and 7 the same size/dimension ?
What about number 4 1/2 plane ? Are handles or blade interchangeable with other planes sizes ?
One last information when did stanley stopped using rosewood for bench planes ?
Thankyou very much guys for your help !!!


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Are totes and knobs on Stanley Bailey planes n° 5, 6 and 7 the same size/dimension ?
Sort of. The style did change from vintage to vintage so the length of the tote bolt may be different.

Are blades on Stanley Bailey planes n° 5, 6 and 7 the same size/dimension ?
No. see supertool.com for all bench plane blade widths.

What about number 4 1/2 plane ? Are handles or blade interchangeable with other planes sizes ?
see above

One last information when did stanley stopped using rosewood for bench planes ?
If you're talking Stanley-Bailey planes, yes. stopped in type 17, started again in 18, stopped again in 19 or 20? 
Other Stanley lines will vary

Edit: Basically all totes with the toe screw are the same within the same vintage.


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## SirTim (Mar 26, 2017)

I have also looked into this as I am thinking on getting some planes off of ebay. Since I live in Canada and close to the US boarder, I ship to the boarder and cross, pick it up and bring it back over. Don't have the link but if you google importing rosewood into Canada or something like that you get a Canadian government type of document. They state a 10kg rule where if you are importing something that has rosewood on it and it is for non commercial but personal use you should have no problem. In the case of the hand plane they don't count the weight of the plane but just the wood


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