# My dreams of visiting the woodwrights shop have been crushed. Just got this from Ed.



## TraditionallySpeakin (Feb 9, 2019)

I've always dreamed of taking a class with Roy and visiting the tool store while there. Today those dreams were crushed. I for one will not be taking the chi-com cocktail jab and so I guess this is the first of many things that I'll be excluded from going forward.

Pretty depressing.

From his email:

COVID-19 and the Tool Store: The tool store will remain closed to walk-ins for the time being. There are a lot of people who deserve to be ahead of me in line for their vaccinations. The store will reopen after the recommended time period after I have received my shots. I will require proof of vaccination to come in the store, no exceptions. Masks will be required until the coast is well and truly clear. 95% sounds good but that leaves 1 in 20 susceptible to a serious illness. That can be a person a day in the store. My Masters Degree project was with the C.D.C. and I worked at NIH for 31 years. I may have learned something. Please stay healthy and get your shots when available.


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## HarveyM (Nov 11, 2012)

Considering the cost in lives this pandemic has caused, I have no sympathy for you.


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## TraditionallySpeakin (Feb 9, 2019)

> Considering the cost in lives this pandemic has caused, I have no sympathy for you.
> 
> - HarveyM


Aw thanks, that's really nice of you to say.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

Seems like this is set out to be political.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

First notice of this type I've seen. Expected it, honestly.


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

Same Smitty, and I'm with you. I figured as soon as I saw they were issuing "Covid-19 Vaccination Record Cards", that we would end up in "proof of vaccination to enter" scenarios soon enough.

Bummer that the tool shop will remain closed, but it's their right to feel safe however they need to.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

I predict a good business printing vaccination cards. Could be the same people that printed all the extra ballots in the dark of the night.


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## TravisH (Feb 6, 2013)

> Same Smitty, and I m with you. I figured as soon as I saw they were issuing "Covid-19 Vaccination Record Cards", that we would end up in "proof of vaccination to enter" scenarios soon enough.
> 
> Bummer that the tool shop will remain closed, but it s their right to feel safe however they need to.
> 
> - Mosquito


Agree 100%. The local University required the flu shot to attend this year (negative Covid test also required for campus access for students, faculty, and staff). I suspect the Covid vaccine will be also required once available.

I suspect some employers will require it.


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## TraditionallySpeakin (Feb 9, 2019)

> Bummer that the tool shop will remain closed, but it s their right to feel safe however they need to.
> 
> - Mosquito


Yeah I agree. I didn't however, care for the tone of the email.


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## TraditionallySpeakin (Feb 9, 2019)

> Same Smitty, and I m with you. I figured as soon as I saw they were issuing "Covid-19 Vaccination Record Cards", that we would end up in "proof of vaccination to enter" scenarios soon enough.
> 
> Bummer that the tool shop will remain closed, but it s their right to feel safe however they need to.
> 
> ...


Yeah I think it will be required many places. Places that used to let people in with runny noses and coughs are now requiring a vaccine.


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

I understand TS, it makes sense. While I don't necessarily disagree with your assessment of the email, I wasn't really commenting on anything around that since people tend to get touchy around politicized issues like that lol


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## TraditionallySpeakin (Feb 9, 2019)

> I predict a good business printing vaccination cards. Could be the same people that printed all the extra ballots in the dark of the night.
> 
> - Aj2


Hahaha. Yes, I was saying the same thing to the wife.


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## TraditionallySpeakin (Feb 9, 2019)

> I understand TS, it makes sense. While I don t necessarily disagree with your assessment of the email, I wasn t really commenting on anything around that since people tend to get touchy around politicized issues like that lol
> 
> - Mosquito


Eh, I've never understood the whole we don't discuss politics here attitude of places ya know.

Politics infiltrate every aspect of life and hobbies. The discussion should be welcomed.

Who really cares if a topic on here devolved into a political ******************** show with name calling or whatever? Really, who cares. So what. I don't get it, never have.


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## TraditionallySpeakin (Feb 9, 2019)

> Seems like this is set out to be political.
> 
> - SMP


Oh it's political alright. Politicians are the real virus


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## jacww (Aug 23, 2015)

TraditionallySpeakin,

My 10th class at the Woodwrights School was canceled in April 2020. I was disappointed, but glad that they were serious about MY safety and their own safety.

I will sign up for the same class as soon as it is offered again and I am properly vaccinated.

The school is a FANTASTIC experience. I highly recommend it!

I will stand in line for as long as necessary to get my vaccine against COVID!

*Your choice, your loss!*

TonyC


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## TraditionallySpeakin (Feb 9, 2019)

> TraditionallySpeakin,
> 
> I will stand in line for as long as necessary to get my vaccine against COVID!
> 
> ...


I can't help but think that in the end you will have lost more than me my friend.


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## fuigb (Apr 21, 2010)

> Considering the cost in lives this pandemic has caused, I have no sympathy for you.
> 
> - HarveyM


+1


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## LeeRoyMan (Feb 23, 2019)

> I can t help but think that in the end you will have *lost more than me* my friend.
> 
> - TraditionallySpeakin


Doesn't sound like he is losing much.


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## bobfromsanluis (Jul 23, 2016)

In re-reading the original comment, I'm somewhat surprised "TraditionallySpeakin" is surprised at the contents of the email he received. The man running the workshop has a friggin Masters degree and worked at the National Health Institute for 31 years- did you honestly think someone like that is going to let people he doesn't know, get that close to him and others who have paid their money, provided proof that they are responsible, and you want to walk in like nothing has been happening in the world? Over 350,000 Americans are dead (right now, the number will continue to grow) and you won't "bother" with the vaccine? Sounds like you're accustomed to getting anything you want, anytime you want, you must be very "special". Wow. Maybe you should consider someone other than yourself for once. I'd suggest you grow up, but I'm sure that would offend you as well.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

That's correct. The virus is a fake and all 350,000 victims are vacationing in Australia. April fools day, they will all be back…..... I am getting the vaccine asap. Hoping to stay alive until I get it. And the above is why this site should stay far away from politics. After all, politics is why the virus is out of control and we have over 350,000 dead. Are we trying to set a new record with more dead than in 1918? At least they had an excuse. They had no idea what a virus was because of no electron microscope that could see anything that small.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

And not one of the experts dissing those passing on the experimental, unapproved vacs would be willing to back their stance and put their bank account up to compensate if the vaccine injures or death come out of their vaccine already admitted to not solve the problem of having to wear a mask, social distance, destroy and economy. . . .

A degree does not make anyone infallible, or expert on every facet of their field. More so if they haven't worked the 
field for a while or never worked a given section of it. A lot of people with degrees do a great job of imitating an idiot much of the time.

Consider, for example, the hard fact many so called experts do not so much as give lip service to the value of immunity from sources other than patent medicine. That includes things like ample rest, reduced sugar intake, vitamins, minerals and so on.

Perhaps ironically, it is also experts in relevant fields who insist women should take prenatal vitamins, that vitamin C can cure scurvy, that rickets can be cured by adding vitamins and so on.

Even as the so called quacks pushed vitamin D3, purported experts mocked them. Years in, they jumped on the bandwagon. In fact, if they were to claim D3 was a waste of time, they would make fools of themselves today.

Then there is the ever changing information or assertion problem:

-Tests work / tests are not to be used for testing for C-19, many test are false positives, etc.

- A quarter million died of C-19, but deaths by other causes, including flu, dropped so much the death rate of U.S. citizens nearly mirrors previous years.

- A vaccine will save us, but we won't be able to unmask, socialize, run businesses that keep us alive, and even keep idiots from installing a socialist government.

- The experts have never been able, even after decades of trying, to create a vaccine which would knock out the common cold and make the manufacturer billions. However, now, they were able to knock out our version of the bubonic plague with a vaccine in just months. In fact, more than one company was able to do so.

- The fifty-one constitutions were formed because government agents could not be trusted. Now, however, agents dealing with these matters, including the very rich or soon to be rich ones, can be fully trusted, and their names will never be found among others of their kind found in page after page of law book covering crimes of public agents.

- . . . .


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

From what I see many people don't care if they get the flu or diabetes or heart disease. Covid just another thing for the careless.
Last week I was in Gatlinburg Tn. Crowds of people walking in crowded streets eating food drinks many without masks. Whole family's.
I see no reason to trust anything I hear from the news media. I don't think it's nearly as bad as they report. 
Back to the original post what's the woodwrights shop. Is it the guy the used to be on PBS with the messy shop and wobbly bench.


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## TraditionallySpeakin (Feb 9, 2019)

> And not one of the experts dissing those passing on the experimental, unapproved vacs would be willing to back their stance and put their bank account up to compensate if the vaccine injures or death come out of their vaccine already admitted to not solve the problem of having to wear a mask, social distance, destroy and economy. . . .
> 
> A degree does not make anyone infallible, or expert on every facet of their field. More so if they haven t worked the
> field for a while or never worked a given section of it. A lot of people with degrees do a great job of imitating an idiot much of the time.
> ...


Couldn't have said it better myself


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

Ya not kidding Kelly knows how to let loose. Bravo


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

Regardless of what's true or false, right or wrong, it's his shop and his school. He is free to set the rules to enter and everyone else is free to comply or not enter. I suspect these rules will change when the pattern of this disease changes. I mean it's not like it is carved in wood or anything, hummm.

Unless people start dropping in the street from vaccine side effects I plan on getting it. I am in good health so many millions will have tested the vaccine for me before I am eligible.


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## derekcohen (Jul 15, 2007)

I've always dreamed of taking a class with Roy and visiting the tool store while there. Today those dreams were crushed. I for one will not be taking the chi-com cocktail jab and so I guess this is the first of many things that I'll be excluded from going forward.

Pretty depressing.

From his email:

COVID-19 and the Tool Store: The tool store will remain closed to walk-ins for the time being. There are a lot of people who deserve to be ahead of me in line for their vaccinations. The store will reopen after the recommended time period after I have received my shots. I will require proof of vaccination to come in the store, no exceptions. Masks will be required until the coast is well and truly clear. 95% sounds good but that leaves 1 in 20 susceptible to a serious illness. That can be a person a day in the store. My Masters Degree project was with the C.D.C. and I worked at NIH for 31 years. I may have learned something. Please stay healthy and get your shots when available.

Spoken with ignorance and a completely narcissistic outlook. You act as if Roy was being selfish and irrational, and that you are the Victim.

What are you doing to protect others from contracting your Covid?!

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## HarveyM (Nov 11, 2012)

Kelly do you wear a seatbelt and have an airbag?

As for "Then there is the ever changing information or assertion problem:" We call that 'learning'. You know which animals don't learn? Dead ones.

There's two forms of Covid testing- one is expensive, time consuming, and requires experienced staff. It's as accurate as humanly possible. Then there's ones that's quick, cheaper, and most health staff (or the public) can carry out that's not as accurate. Just like there's a pee on a stick pregnancy test, or a Doctor's lab pregancy test. Or a cabinet made with mortise & tenon joinery vs a one made with pocket holes and biscuits. Both are cabinets, just made with different intents. No difference.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

> ...
> 
> A degree does not make anyone infallible, or expert on every facet of their field. More so if they haven t worked the
> field for a while or never worked a given section of it. A lot of people with degrees do a great job of imitating an idiot much of the time.
> ...


Nope. But owning a store does make one an expert on who they do, or don't, allow into their store.



> Bummer that the tool shop will remain closed, but it s their right to feel safe however they need to.
> 
> - Mosquito
> 
> ...


Really? What is it about the "tone" of that e-mail that was offensive? It seemed perfectly amiable to me. It was a business owner clearly stating his intentions and even going so far as to give reasoning for said intentions and that his choices are based on many years of education and experience in a field that makes him much more qualified to form an educated opinion than those of us who just watch the news and somehow have been conditioned to think that it makes sense to listen to politicians instead of scientists concerning a pandemic of this nature.

We are all free to choose whether or not to get vaccinated. And small business owners are free to choose whom they will attend to. As far as I'm concerned, both of those freedoms are critical to our way of life.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

My dreams of visiting the woodwrights shop have also been crushed. Apparently the airlines want money for plane tickets!! And the hotels nearby won't let me stay for free!! Obviously a ploy by "big hotel" and "big airline" lobbyists to keep me down.


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## GR8HUNTER (Jun 13, 2016)

> I can t help but think that in the end you will have *lost more than me* my friend.
> 
> - TraditionallySpeakin
> 
> ...





> ...
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


+1000 :<)))


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

Keep politics out of this.


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## skatefriday (May 5, 2014)

> Keep politics out of this.
> 
> - Cricket


lol. Hard to do when the original poster's message was inherently political and was, in effect, simply a rant against a business owner with a background in public health who was giving advance notice of conditions of entry to his business. And the original poster used the racist term "chi com" to describe Covid19.

<political> The anti-science, anti-public health people need to be called out. It's not enough anymore to just let the lies of the anti-science crowd stand without rebuke. Reason and science must make it's voice heard in all corners. That includes LumberJocks when LumberJocks, as in this this case, becomes a platform for these people. </political>


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## TraditionallySpeakin (Feb 9, 2019)

> Keep politics out of this.
> 
> - Cricket


Politics have not been mentioned. Everything has been civil here so I'm unsure why you feel the need to visit unless you have something to contribute.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

'Cause she does what the hell she wants. Unlike our country, this site is not a democracy and Cricket rules. Any snarky comments directed towards her, I can assure you will not be received favorably by most members here.


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## TraditionallySpeakin (Feb 9, 2019)

> Cause she does what the hell she wants. Unlike our country, this site is not a democracy and Cricket rules. Any snarky comments directed towards her, I can assure you will not be received favorably by most members here.
> 
> - HokieKen


That may be so. However, I am not going to bite my tongue to avoid moderator retribution. She made a bad faith argument that this post was about politics and that isn't true. I haven't been disrespectful and I don't feel that anyone else has either.


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

> Keep politics out of this.
> 
> - Cricket
> 
> ...


I am guessing you don't realize that I am the community manager.

When my email blows up with flag reports for this thread, I will definitely respond.


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

> Cause she does what the hell she wants. Unlike our country, this site is not a democracy and Cricket rules. Any snarky comments directed towards her, I can assure you will not be received favorably by most members here.
> 
> - HokieKen


Are you 100% positive you want to mess with me today? [wink]

This thread was not in the lounge originally. It has been moved.


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## TraditionallySpeakin (Feb 9, 2019)

> Keep politics out of this.
> 
> - Cricket
> 
> ...


Yes, I know you are the moderator, see my post above.

So people can just report a thread in bad faith because they disagree with it? Aren't we better than that as a community? I'd like to know specifically what part of this thread violates the rules here?


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

Have you read the community rules recently?


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## TraditionallySpeakin (Feb 9, 2019)

> Have you read the community rules recently?
> 
> - Cricket


I have not. I just generally act like a good decent respectful person in all aspects of my life and figure that covers me 99% of the time.

I assume you are addressing politics but again I ask, how is this a political topic?


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

> Seems like this is set out to be political.
> 
> - SMP
> 
> ...


didn't you clearly state that this is political?


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

> Cause she does what the hell she wants. Unlike our country, this site is not a democracy and Cricket rules. Any snarky comments directed towards her, I can assure you will not be received favorably by most members here.
> 
> - HokieKen
> 
> ...


Not on my bravest day ;-)


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## TraditionallySpeakin (Feb 9, 2019)

> Seems like this is set out to be political.
> 
> - SMP
> 
> ...


I thought he meant that the vaccine is set out to be political. I missed that he was talking about my post. My agreement wasn't that my post was set out to be political.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

what what it's worth I don't sense a political agenda in the discussion myself.

As for the topic (my previous post was just in response to the question asked - thank you for responding to that) I also didn't feel for any 'tone' in the email from Roy. It seemed perfectly legit and informative with no personal offensive agenda. For what it's worth, it's much the same as trying to get any kid into school today. Without proof of specific list of vaccinations that kid will not be admitted. how is this any different?


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

Just to clarify, the e-mail referenced in the OP was from Ed Lebetkin if I understand correctly, not Roy Underhill. Not that I think anyone is being burned at the stake or anything. Just don't want to see potentially volatile statements attributed to the wrong author.


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## TraditionallySpeakin (Feb 9, 2019)

> Just to clarify, the e-mail referenced in the OP was from Ed Lebetkin if I understand correctly, not Roy Underhill. Not that I think anyone is being burned at the stake or anything. Just don t want to see potentially volatile statements attributed to the wrong author.
> 
> - HokieKen


Yes, it was from Ed in reference to the tool store. There hasn't been any word about classes downstairs and what if any requirements there will be.

Thanks for clearing that up. I could have been more specific.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

You stated such in the title. I've just seen a couple of posters that mentioned Roy so wanted to clarify.


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## TraditionallySpeakin (Feb 9, 2019)

> what what it s worth I don t sense a political agenda in the discussion myself.
> 
> As for the topic (my previous post was just in response to the question asked - thank you for responding to that) I also didn t feel for any tone in the email from Roy. It seemed perfectly legit and informative with no personal offensive agenda. For what it s worth, it s much the same as trying to get any kid into school today. Without proof of specific list of vaccinations that kid will not be admitted. how is this any different?
> 
> - PurpLev


Definitely not a political agenda to the post. The virus and the vaccine have been politicized but that hasn't really been discussed here. I think it should be able to since we are all adults, but that's my opinion and I understand that I don't speak for the community or the guidelines.

The vaccine argument is a tricky one. I'd love to have it if you want to message me but I won't discuss that here for fear of being banned for off topic or political discussion. Off topic discussion takes place all over these boards mind you, but we all realize that there is certain "lean" to off topic conversation acceptable to members and moderators and certain off topic discussion that gets your post flagged and you banned.

For example, if I made a post about how brave it was for Ed to send out this email and alienate a certain portion of his customer base; and I said how happy I was to see him make this stand. Do you really believe that people would have flagged this topic? That I would be subjected to ridicule and personal attack here with no one saying a word? It would have been every bit as off topic. We all know the answer.


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## skatefriday (May 5, 2014)

> That may be so. However, I am not going to bite my tongue to avoid moderator retribution. She made a bad faith argument that this post was about politics and that isn't true. I haven't been disrespectful and I don't feel that anyone else has either.
> 
> - TraditionallySpeakin


Are you kidding? "chi-com cocktail jab" is immensely disrespectful to an entire community. It's racist. It has caused measurable harm to lawful US citizens of Chinese ancestry that had no part in this pandemic. It's a horrible, horrible statement. I live near the largest concentration of Chinese Americans in the country. Some of my best friends are from this community, and your ignorance and willful slander are offensive.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

About time to let this thread die away…..maybe come back at a much later date, when Ed and Roy have opened the store AND classrooms back up? Until that time…....


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## TraditionallySpeakin (Feb 9, 2019)

> That may be so. However, I am not going to bite my tongue to avoid moderator retribution. She made a bad faith argument that this post was about politics and that isn't true. I haven't been disrespectful and I don't feel that anyone else has either.
> 
> - TraditionallySpeakin
> 
> ...


It isn't offensive but your pretending that it is, I find that offensive.


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## skatefriday (May 5, 2014)

> It isn't offensive but your pretending that it is, I find that offensive.
> 
> - TraditionallySpeakin


Now we know that you don't find racist slander offensive, but find the calling out of racist slander offensive. Thanks for clearing that up for us.


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## jacww (Aug 23, 2015)

Some traditions are best left not spoken.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> About time to let this thread die away…..maybe come back at a much later date, when Ed and Roy have opened the store AND classrooms back up? Until that time…....
> 
> - bandit571


+1


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## TraditionallySpeakin (Feb 9, 2019)

> Some traditions are best left not spoken.
> 
> - jacww


I hope you'll look back on this comment and cringe


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> About time to let this thread die away…..maybe come back at a much later date, when Ed and Roy have opened the store AND classrooms back up? Until that time…....
> 
> - bandit571


if this conversation continues cricket may just end it's life for you.i was gonna jump in but i think not.LOL.


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