# Complete woodworking newbie - using glue for a specific situation?



## Maplicito (Jul 19, 2016)

I have a bit of an unusual project - I'm at work at the moment, so I may not respond very quickly, and I can't post pictures at the moment.

Anyhow, I have an old console radio (~1938), and the insides have been removed. I have already installed a modern subwoofer and a modern pair of 5×7 speakers to replace the original speaker. I am going to be installing the appropriate amplifiers, and I am also going to put a computer in it - essentially retrofitting the radio into an antique looking computer with its own sound system.

Where I need some help is with backing the radio - currently it is an open back, and both the computer and the amplifiers are going to need backing to the radio in order to be properly mounted. However, I want to modify the original wood of the radio's cabinet as little as possible. I also want to use threaded inserts, so that the back can come on and off easily, for upgrades and maintenance.

What I am thinking of doing is gluing pieces of wood - something like 1×3's or 2×4's on the inside - and then putting the threaded inserts into them, allowing the back to be screwed on into them. As well as allowing me to not put holes in the original wood, it would also allow the back to be more recessed, or even be put within the cabinet itself, so that it doesn't take away from how the radio looks from any angle other than the back.

My question is - given what I'm trying to accomplish, is this doable and appropriate? The radio has very little if any monetary value, so I'm not concerned about harming the monetary value - I'd just like to keep it as original as possible.

If it is doable and appropriate, are there glues that you would recommend? Strength is somewhat important, as the back may need to support up to 30 lbs, but I'm assuming that in a radio 3 and a half feet tall, and 2 feet wide, there should be enough surface area for the glue to grab, and give it the strength it would need. Would any of the glues you would recommend allow for removing the glued on wood later, without damaging the cabinet?

Thanks for any help you can give!


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

Titebond II. It will do everything you need for an interior project. It's easy to find anywhere.


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

You shouldn't need anything as big as 1×3 for this. Something around 3/4" x 3/4" should be enough.

Using threaded inserts is a good solution. Put them in before you glue. A tip on inserting them if you happen to have a drill press: chuck a large slotted screwdriver bit into the press. Position the wood with the predrilled hole under the bit, and use the press to hold the insert in place. Turn the chuck with your hand while pressing down with the drill press handle to screw the insert into the hole.

Any of the Titebond formulas will be fine. Don't think Titebond II is any better than the original Titebond for this application. When applied correctly, the glue bond is stronger than the wood. You can find Titebond in the big box home improvement centers.

You want a clean, fresh wood surface to glue to for maximum strength. Many finishes can be roughed up with sandpaper and then glued to, but best if you remove the finish under the joint. You don't want the wood surface too smooth (80 grit sandpaper is fine, for example).

You want to clamp the parts together with a fair amount of force, so plan, and practice, how you will do that before you apply glue.

Apply glue to both sides. An old credit card makes a decent glue spreader. Then put the parts together aligned where you want them and clamp. When you clamp the pieces together, you should get glue squeeze out. Clean that up with a damp rag or sponge.

You are thinking about ventilation for this, right? One reason the original has no back is to allow ventilation. If you seal up the back, how will the computer be cooled?


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## Aidan1211 (Feb 20, 2016)

The best way to look at the titebond series of glues is based on what they will tolerate.

Titebond Original - Interior use only ( Not tolerant to any kind of moisture beyond day to day humid changes) Easiest to reverse with a little bit of heat.

Titebond II - General use interior to temporary moisture situations (This is the formula most of use guys go to with regular frequency and can also be released with heat) I typically only use Titebond II on my furniture unless its going to live outside

Titebond III - This glue is best used in areas that could see frequent exposure to outdoor elements but with NOT tolerate constant submersion. This type is a lot harder to release at a later date and requires the use of a significant amount of heat to remove. It also dries to the darkest color and is best used on darker woods if stain is not going to be used.

I agree that old credit cards work Very well as a glue spreader.


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## Maplicito (Jul 19, 2016)

Thanks for the responses guys! I will be on the lookout for either Titebond Original or II, they sound like exactly what I'm after. If I use something around a 3/4 by 3/4 as recommended, do you think that would give enough strength to add handles to the back? Handles aren't a necessity, but it's an idea I have toyed with.

As for ventilation, this should work just fine. The back panel to the motherboard tray I'm going to use is well ventilated, and will have a 120mm fan mounted to it, right in front of the CPU's tower cooler. The power supply should also facilitate air movement, and the hard drive cage I'm going to put in also has its own fan. I may add another fan later, but I've already got the donor computer sitting in a less well ventilated area, and it does fine for heat.

Any recommendations on the insert/screw sizes I should be using for mounting the back? The computer itself (well, the motherboard tray) uses 6-32's, so I'll be using the appropriate inserts for it, but I would assume that I should be using something more beefy for the back panel?

Thanks again! I was going to post some pictures, but it looks like I'll have to do so when I've got time for formatting the post.


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

3/4"won't let you hold up the entire unit by handles, no. What do the handles do?
You can move air INSIDE the cabinet all you want, but how does hot air get out of the box (and fresh air get in)? 
You need openings for air to enter and exit the cabinet.

What is the back made of? I was thinking you were going to use 1/4" ply, hardboard or something like that. Even half inch would be fine with #8 screws.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

The Titebond glues recommended above will all do most of what you asked for just fine but the last point seems to have been missed. PVA glues like those mentioned are not reversible and you would not be able to (easily) remove the glued pieces later without damaging the cabinet.
I would recommend hide glue, the glue that was used on the original cabinet back in 1938. It is just as strong as the others but when you want to remove the pieces you can reverse the glue with heat and moisture. Soaking with hot wet rags will do it. Personally I would use hot hide glue but if you aren't set up for it and aren't familiar with it, a liquid hide glue will be just as good in this application and more user friendly. I would recommend one called Old Brown Glue. You can get it at most woodworking supply stores or online. http://www.oldbrownglue.com


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

I don't think the OP asked for reversibility. Hide glue is not as strong as PVA glues, all the testing shows that clearly. It might well be strong enough for this application, but we still don't know what the "handles" are for. If all the glue does is hold the inserts for a removeable back, hide glue is undoubtedly strong enough.


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## Maplicito (Jul 19, 2016)

I'm at work now, so responses may not come very quickly. Reverse-ability would be ideal. The handles would be for being able to get a good handhold for moving the radio. If that's not an ideal solution, it's definitely not a necessity. Removing the back panel would allow for a reasonable grip, or for the take down of the heaviest components - the handles would just be for the lazy "I want to haul this upstairs, but I don't want to take anything apart" moments.

The air flow should not be an issue. The 120mm fan and the CPU's tower cooler act as exit fans. The back of the motherboard tray is well ventilated, allowing for air to flow in. It should create a negative air pressure, and is actually a better cooling setup than where the computer currently resides. If I find a need though, I may add fans later on, but at least until I add a discrete video card, I don't believe it will be an issue.

Edit: Reverse-ability is more important to me than handles are.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

> Edit: Reverse-ability is more important to me than handles are.
> 
> - Maplicito


Just screw them on without glue. If anything, maybe put a small bead of caulking on the wood first, then you could just pry it off with a putty knife without much trouble. 
I honestly think screws alone would suffice, unless you think there may be a rattle situation from the speakers.


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

Okay, well, hide glue is reversible, so that's the way to go if you want to remove it.

If you want to hold the whole thing up, you might need that 1×3, although I think it probably could be done with something smaller (1.5 or 2×3/4 maybe).

I'm still not getting the ventilation. You are putting the computer inside the radio cabinet. The computer generates a lot of heat. The fans in the tower will move the heat out of the tower, but how does it get out of the cabinet, especially if you seal up the back? Where are the openings in the radio cabinet?


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## Maplicito (Jul 19, 2016)

> Just screw them on without glue. If anything, maybe put a small bead of caulking on the wood first, then you could just pry it off with a putty knife without much trouble.
> I honestly think screws alone would suffice, unless you think there may be a rattle situation from the speakers.
> 
> - jbay


It's more that I don't want to put screw holes in the radio's original wood if I can avoid it. If it's not reasonably avoidable, I'll put screws in, but I would like the option of restoring the cabinet to its original condition, so I thought gluing new wood in to serve as a mounting point in might allow that.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

I'm not getting into an argument about the strengths of glues but as they are all much stronger than the wood they are glueing I don't think it matters much. I've never been able to make hide glue fail and I've tried a lot.

If you want reversibility, hide glue is what you need.


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## Maplicito (Jul 19, 2016)

Thanks Paul - "strong enough" is good enough for me - I'm going to have a look at the Old Brown Glue you recommended.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

One other suggestion then would be to use double sided tape. I use some stuff that's pretty strong. I think it would work for what your doing. If you care to entertain that idea here is a web site I buy it from. They carry a lot of different types. You can check them out here if you like.
Trust me, plenty strong enough! This one - http://www.crlaurence.com/crlapps/showline/offerpage.aspx?Productid=2587&GroupID=1205&History=39324:330:1197:1201&ModelID=1205


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## Maplicito (Jul 19, 2016)

Great, I'll check that out too - options are always a good thing!


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## JBrow (Nov 18, 2015)

Maplicito,

I have nothing to add nor any comments concerning the responding posts; all the posts offer what sounds to me like great advice. Rather I wonder about the necessity of threaded inserts. Indeed if the back will be removed frequently, threaded inserts are probably the best choice. Threaded inserts, however, are difficult and take some time for me to install. It is easy to get these inserts in crooked. brtech's method using a drill press is probably the best way to install the threaded inserts straight. Installing these free-handed so they are straight is quite difficult. The other potential problem is splitting the wood into which the insert are installed, overcome with a properly sized hole to receive the insert which is a different size for soft woods than hardwoods.

Using T-nuts is an easier and faster alternative to threaded inserts. The T-nut fits in a properly sized hole without regard to the type of wood and its prongs pressed into the wood by continuing to tighten a screw threaded into the T-nut until the T-nut seats. While easier to install, T-nuts are not without their own problems. Sometimes the wood is so hard that the prongs can bend before seated. If the wood is too soft, the T-nut can sometimes become dislodged.

A third alternative is to attach the back to the glued/taped inside cleats with simple screws; no inserts. I suspect the back will be installed and then removed several times until the electronics are working. Thereafter the back may be seldom removed, since electronics are fairly reliable and upgrades infrequent. If this is the case, then simply screwing the back in place would probably work fine. The only issue concerning the simple screw solution is that if the screws are overtightened or removed and re-installed many times, the screws may lose their bit. In this case, the worn out screw holes can be repaired by filling the hole with tooth picks glued into the hole or the worn out hole drilled out and a dowel glued into place. Until the electronics are installed and working properly, using only a few screws to hold the back in place would keep the remaining screws fresh and able to hold the back firmly in place after things are finished up. The key to success with this solution is to avoid overtightening the screws.


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## Maplicito (Jul 19, 2016)

Thanks JBrow. That suggestion is definitely helpful. I'll do some thinking, but in all likelihood, that panel will not be coming off frequently at all. I might still attempt threaded inserts for where the motherboard tray will be mounted, as that is the part most likely to need frequent removal - but the speakers are already in place, and once the amplifiers are in place, they're only likely to come out if they fail.


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## KelleyCrafts (May 17, 2016)

> I m still not getting the ventilation. You are putting the computer inside the radio cabinet. The computer generates a lot of heat. The fans in the tower will move the heat out of the tower, but how does it get out of the cabinet, especially if you seal up the back? Where are the openings in the radio cabinet?
> 
> - brtech


I'm curious too. Reading the whole thing through and that's all I can think of.

OP, skip the handles if you want to keep it in tact. Also, you will need some clamps if you don't have any, probably 6 on each side I imagine. You could do one side at a time so you don't have to buy more than you need (of course most guys on this thread will tell you there is no such thing). Also, cut extra strips to put on the outside of the cabinet in order to ensure the clamps aren't going to ruin the visual parts of the cabinet.


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## Maplicito (Jul 19, 2016)

I'll skip on the handles. If the radio needs moved far, the back panel can just come off.

The case that my computer currently resides in is this one:










That case is actually my original inspiration - a prefab radio imitation is nice - the real thing should be nicer yet. I had doubts about the air circulation of that case, but having used it, it actually works just fine for keeping temperatures down. The console radio I'm using should actually be better yet.

To clarify, I'm not just dumping a computer tower in the radio. I am installing a motherboard tray:

http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server4100/df4bb/products/431/images/1880/DSC8026_84886.1410811610.1280.1280.JPG?c=2

The back of that tray will be mounted to the back panel, meaning the exhaust fan of the computer exhausts directly outside of the radio.


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