# How to tell if tung oil is just tung oil?



## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

I previously purchased some formbys tung oil finish at the big box store, only to find it was actually a blend of oils. Looking online it seems there is various terminology for tung oil. 100% tung oil, pure tung oil, 100% pure tung oil, tung oil finish, tung oil, fast drying tung oil. I plan on going to my local woodworker supply store to buy some on the way home today and want to make sure its just tung oil with nothing else added. I am not sure what brands of it they carry. I know they carry Old Masters products, and I saw on Amazon that Old Masters makes a Tung Oil and a Pure Tung Oil. I am guessing "tung oil finish" and "fast drying tung oil" have additives, but is it safe to say the others are just tung oil and nothing else added?

Thanks


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Look for "100% tung oil", or something close to that. You can check the ingredients…anything with a solvent isn't pure tung oil.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

Manufacturers commonly don't list their ingredients but you can figure it out by looking at the MSDS which they are required to provide and most post them online.


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## John Smith_inFL (Dec 15, 2017)

the word "finish" is the giveaway that something is not really "pure"



















.

.


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## sgcz75b (Jan 21, 2019)

There's a reason tung oil has finishers in it. That's not necessarily a bad thing so do some research on why finishers are added to "pure" tung oil.

I prefer the tung oil with finishers.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> the word "finish" is the giveaway that something is not really "pure"
> 
> - John Smith


It's unfortunate that John lumped Waterlox in with those other products since it is a wiping varnish containing real tung oil. It's head-and-shoulders above the Minwax and others in quality as they contain zero tung oil.

Just google the product name followed by "SDS." Look for section 3 and check the ingredients. For example, the MilkPaint brand says Pure Tung Oil at 100% by weight.

Minwax, on the other hand, contains the following in the percent weights indicated (hint - ZERO tung oil):

Light Aliphatic Hydrocarbon ≥50 - ≤75
Med. Aliphatic Hydrocarbon Solvent ≤10 
Methyl Ethyl Ketoxime ≤0.3 
Cobalt 2-Ethylhexanoate ≤0.3

All of the others, except Waterlox, have similar formulations, and if you do a search in the SDS PDF document you will find that the only occurences of the word "tung" are in the name of the product.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

Thanks all for the tips. They had several to choose from. A lot clearly said "finish". The only one that said "pure tung oil" was Liberon but it was expensive. The others that just said "tung oil" were Behlen and Old Masters(2 old masters- the varnish above and one that just said tung oil). The old masters had a warning that said it included some aliphatic hydrocarbons. The Behlen label was kind of hard to make sense of in a part that kind of looked like part of a msds but said "content: tung oil". Googling the sds as mentioned looks like it does in fact just contAin tung oil. https://cdn0.grizzly.com/msds/h3988_msds.pdf

As I have gotten older, solvents and other chemicals really seem to affect me more. So i am trying to stay away and just ise more natural stuff. I tried to use Briwax the other day, which i used to use a lot, and the smell almost immediately gave me a headache, made my eyes burn, and the parts that got on my skin, my skin turned dry and scaly, flaking off, my hands look like alligator skin. I found someone that makes wooden spoons that uses pure tung oil, or tung oil and citrus solvent(from orange peel) for similar reasons and his spoons look great, so hoping this works.

Thanks again!


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

You should be wearing a mask that blocks those VOCs. The tung oil with citrus solvent you mention is from Milkpaint. I use it sometimes and it's a good product. Add Japan drier 1 to 2 percent by volume and it's easier to work with. Without a drier it takes a long time between coats.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

This short article will keep you straight on pure oil, oil varnish blends, and wiping varnishes.

https://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/finishing/oil-finishes-their-history-and-use/

Pure tung oil is a drying oil but doesn't penerate wood very deeply or dry quickly by itself. Normally need a thinner / solvent to help penetration and speed up drying. Using thinner / solvent either citrus oil or mineral spirits aides in penetration and speed up drying times. Whether you use citrus oil or odorless mineral spirits best to wear disposable gloves and inexpensive respirator.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip-1-gal-Odorless-Mineral-Spirits-GKSP94006P/100147127

https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-P95-Paint-Odor-Valved-Respirator-Mask-2-Pack-8577PA1-A/202077804

https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Medium-Mold-and-Lead-Paint-Removal-Respirator-Mask-6297PA1-A/202078789

Only pure oil finish that you don't want to use solvent / thinner is Walnut oil which comes from salad oil industry. Don't buy this stuff from a grocery store and some health food stores doesn't work at all. Both Doctors & Mahoney's oils will give you a matt or satin finish. Walnut oil doesn't offer as much protection as Tung oil but little easier and faster to work with. Many people use a wax on top of that.

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/mahoneys-walnut-oil-16-oz

http://doctorswoodshop.com/

If time and protection a factor use a wiping varnish wearing gloves & respirator. You can make your own using 50/50 mix of poly or varnish with solvent thinner of your choice. Thing to watch commercial wiping varnish is amount of thinner in the product. two coats 50/50 mix equals one coat of film finish.

Or can switch to water base finishes but they too have odors but easily washed off with soap & water.


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## sgcz75b (Jan 21, 2019)

> Only pure oil finish that you don't want to use solvent / thinner is Walnut oil which comes from salad oil industry. Don't buy this stuff from a grocery store and some health food stores doesn't work at all. Both Doctors & Mahoney's oils will give you a matt or satin finish. Walnut oil doesn't offer as much protection as Tung oil but little easier and faster to work with. Many people use a wax on top of that.
> 
> - Wildwood


The 100% food-grade walnut oil from the grocery store works for me just fine. About 60% less expensive than Mahoney's. Tastes good too.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

I did see the walnut oil there as well, but it was the same price for half the amount of tung oil. My plan is to try this next spoon with just pure tung oil and see how that goes. I am a "weekend warrior"- full time job, part time school for MBA, and family, so realistically days between coats doesn't really scare me. If it seems ok, I plan on making some wooden spoons, spatulas, and cheese boards(not cutting boards) for Christmas gifts for family. I have a few family members that are the vegan/hippie type so I think they would appreciate the completely natural aspect as well.

Ordinarily when I make furniture lately, I have gone down the Arm-r-seal, gloves and 3m respirator path. I would like to keep it more natural, but not quite to the level of Chris Schwarz with the soap finish.


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

I agree completely!


> There s a reason tung oil has finishers in it. That s not necessarily a bad thing so do some research on why finishers are added to "pure" tung oil.
> 
> I prefer the tung oil with finishers.
> 
> - sgcz75b


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> There s a reason tung oil has finishers in it. That s not necessarily a bad thing so do some research on why finishers are added to "pure" tung oil.
> 
> I prefer the tung oil with finishers.
> 
> - sgcz75b


Only one of the tung oil finishes has any tung oil in it, and it isn't doesn't even say tung oil in the name. That's Waterlox Original.

Formby started the whole "Tung Oil Finish" BS in because he thought it sounded cool and would attract buyers. He was right. There's still confusion to this day, and your post proves it.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Rich is correct, most everything that is labeled a "tung oil finish" has nary a drop of tung oil in it. It's just wonderful the way the manufacturers choose to label their products…..it's also one of the reasons finishing is so confusing.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

If I wanted to be mean, I'd throw in the question of whether you want polymerized tung oil or not, based on their unique characteristics and appropriateness for different circumstances. But, like I said, that would be mean, so I'm not going to bring it up.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

I used to use Mccloskey tungseal. I have no idea if it had tung oil in it but I like it . Then one day it was gone along with other good finishes here in California.
I switched over to General finishes or shellac. 
I remember tungseal had a nutty smell to it i hope it didn't give me drain bamage.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> If I wanted to be mean, I d throw in the question of whether you want polymerized tung oil or not, based on their unique characteristics and appropriateness for different circumstances. But, like I said, that would be mean, so I m not going to bring it up.
> 
> - Rich


I was actually aware of that, i assume its similar to raw vs polymerized BLO like in tried and true. This guy mentions it for other furniture, which are the spoons/finish i would like to replicate:
http://www.mainecoastcraft.com/blog/an-oil-finish-for-hand-carved-wooden-spoons


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I was actually aware of that, i assume its similar to raw vs polymerized BLO like in tried and true.
> 
> - SMP


There's so much confusion surrounding all of this. First, raw linseed oil, while being a drying oil, dries so slowly that it's impractical for use as a finish. Also, while you see countless references to BLO being made by boiling linseed oil, according to Flexner, it's not boiled at all. It has metallic driers added. At one time lead was used as the drier and the oil was heated - not boiled - to help incorporate the lead, but with modern driers that's not necessary.

Pure tung oil will dry in a reasonable amount of time. The specifics of the polymerized products are sketchy since folks like Sutherland Welles don't want to share their secrets. Also, as you found in your article, some cut it 50/50 and leave it at that. Some start at 50/50 and then cut it at a higher concentration of oil for subsequent coats. Everyone has their own special process for using tung oil. Are any better than others? Who knows?  I cut mine at 50/50 with citrus solvent from Milkpaint Co. and add Japan drier, although I don't use tung oil all that often.


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

Pure Tung oil takes forever to dry and does not protect the wood to which it is applied to any useful extent. It does enhance the grain appearance but so does boiled linseed oil and BLO is cheaper and easier to work with. I don't see a problem with modifying pure Tung oil to give it better properties as a finish but I don't approve of companies just tossing the name around for marketing purposes.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> There s so much confusion surrounding all of this. First, raw linseed oil, while being a drying oil, dries so slowly that it s impractical for use as a finish. Also, while you see countless references to BLO being made by boiling linseed oil, according to Flexner, it s not boiled at all. It has metallic driers added. At one time lead was used as the drier and the oil was heated - not boiled - to help incorporate the lead, but with modern driers that s not necessary.


That is true today, "Boiled" Linseed Oil is linseed oil with metallic driers, and not boiled. From my science and nutrition background, I am familiar with the processes of smoke points and flash points of various cooking oils, as well as polymerization and autooxidation etc, but mainly with traditional cooking oils. You can make true BLO by boiling flax seed oil, but it can be dangerous if you aren't careful.(so I am guessing its cheaper, faster, safer for mass producers to use the metallic driers instead) I have watched people do it on youtube here https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=VtETzSg4LcE
, and considered doing it on my BBQ outside, but I haven't got around to trying it yet. Though I do season my cast iron cookware with flax oil. Since linseed(flax) oil has such a low smoke point, the higher you heat it, the more free radicals are relaeased, since it has a high level of ALA, this combined with the oxygen in the air really starts the polymerization process going. I wipe on my pans and stick in oven at 500 degrees for an hour and repeat a few coats(cooling between), you end up with a bulletproof nonstick coating on cast iron. If you have cast iron cookware I highly suggest following this process, completely changed my cookware:

http://sherylcanter.com/wordpress/2010/01/a-science-based-technique-for-seasoning-cast-iron/


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> If you have cast iron cookware I highly suggest following this process, completely changed my cookware:
> 
> - SMP


Small world. As one who is obsessed with my Griswold and Wagner vintage cast iron, I found that article years ago and dove in head first. What I got was a super slick, but fragile seasoning on my pans (and yes, I followed every part down to the pure flax seed oil which costs an arm and a leg). The odor is vile. I thought my wife was going to kick me out of the house. But, the seasoning didn't stand up and was prone to flaking.

Like I said about everyone having their own tung oil process, I've found that animal fats and plain old Crisco do best for me. But that's just me and I am not arguing against flax oil.

This is all off-topic, but since it's your thread and you took the cast iron path, I'll go on. As much as I love my vintage cast iron, for everyday cooking it's hard to beat DeBuyer Mineral B. It's forged iron and seasons extremely well in a short time. I have several and they are more non-stick than my All Clad non-stick coated pans. While they are very thick, heavy iron pans, they still won't stand up to cast iron's enormous heat capacity that's critical for getting a hard sear.

Fun talking with you. Interesting stuff.


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## DustyM (May 16, 2016)

Guys, if you take this thread toward cookware, I'm gonna spend my whole day lurking here.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> Small world. As one who is obsessed with my Griswold and Wagner vintage cast iron, I found that article years ago and dove in head first. What I got was a super slick, but fragile seasoning on my pans (and yes, I followed every part down to the pure flax seed oil which costs an arm and a leg). The odor is vile. I thought my wife was going to kick me out of the house. But, the seasoning didn t stand up and was prone to flaking.
> 
> Like I said about everyone having their own tung oil process, I ve found that animal fats and plain old Crisco do best for me. But that s just me and I am not arguing against flax oil.
> 
> ...


The odor is pretty bad. Vendors of oils even in cooking oils use confusing terminology and outright incorrect/lies sometimes. I did use some oils that didn't work well, and finally got perfect results with Barleans brand 100% flax oil. The only time I had peeling/flaking I think was caused by using oven cleaner to strip the old finish and not getting all the oven cleaner off. But I have the process down now pretty well, lye-based oven cleaner in a trashbag overnight, rinse super well, then rinse more, dry, vinegar wash, preheat to 200, oil, bake, cool, repeat oiling 6 times.. I have also found that acidic foods like tomato based sauces, citrus etc tend to be really hard on the seasoning. I actually bought an enameled cast iron dutch oven for making chili/soups etc for that reason. I can only vouch for the process on newer Lodge cast iron ware. My only "problem" piece is my double sided grill/skillet that I take camping and use directly on the fire, tends to burn/char the side that faces the flames, so I have to reseason every year, vs the others which can go a couple years(actually have a 10" skillet going on a bout 5 years, even with teenagers abusing it, maybe cause its used for bacon regularly?).

I'll have to look at those DeBuyer pans to replace my nonstick ware, I have some basic stuff from Bed Bath and Beyond where the nonstick coating is flaking off, can't be too healthy. I like making omelets but without a good pan, my omelets turn into frittatas. Thanks for the tip on that.

For camping though, this is my all time favorite, I have learned to make quite a few things with combos of wood and coals. Its become somewhat of a hobby in and of itself, with time to whittle while waiting for coals to be ready.
https://www.amazon.com/Lodge-Quart-Seasoned-Handle-Cooking/dp/B00008GKDW/ref=sr_1_4?crid=L4TDUU913YNP&keywords=lodge+dutch+oven+8+quart&qid=1554994959&s=gateway&sprefix=lodge+dutch+oven%2Caps%2C309&sr=8-4


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

Due to chemistry in wood finnishing and paint industry pure oils whether drying, non drying and semi drying oils not use much in that industry today.

For food safe items prefer no, finish or mineral oil (non-dry). Think if read article will understand my preference. Yes need to reapply as needed but that's true of all pure oil finishes. Yes aware mineral oil is a laxative and petroleum based and not really a finish.

https://www.finewoodworking.com/2006/08/01/food-safe-finishes

So are those citrus solvent/ thinners out there!

CITRASOLVE SDS/MSDS 
http://www.fleetfielddirect.co.uk/_images/_uploads/citra-solve-sds.pdf

If read Bob Flexner's article posted earlier gives you an idea of what comprises what oil finishes are about. Yes there is a lot of misinformation or opinions about Tung oil. Tung oil comes from seeds of the nuts not the nuts themselves. Shellac is food safe but denatured alcohol is a poison.

Oil finishes do have a place in finishing wood whether pure or oil varnish blend if buy a commercial product or make your own. Most comerical Tung oil wiping varnishes contain do not contain Tung oil.

Yes Mahoney's & doctors Walnut oil might be little more expensive than grocery & health food store oil, but at least consistent!

Bottom line read directions on the package and do consult MSDS or SDS and where the approipate PPE!


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> For food safe items prefer no, finish or mineral oil (non-dry). Think if read article will understand my preference.
> 
> - Wildwood


Here we go with food safe finishes again…....

---------------------------------------

In fact, all finishes are safe to eat off of or be chewed on once the finish has fully cured. The rule of thumb for curing is 30 days, but warm conditions make curing happen faster. With all solvent-based finishes, you can determine that a finish has cured sufficiently by pressing your nose against the dry finish and sniffing. If there is any odor, the finish isn't yet cured. Only if you can't smell anything is the object safe for food or mouth contact.

Flexner, Bob. Understanding Wood Finishing: How to Select and Apply the Right Finish (American Woodworker) (p. 76). Fox Chapel Publishing. Kindle Edition.

■ No Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS), required by the government to list all hazardous or toxic effects of a product, warns against contact with food or children's mouths for any oil or varnish finish, or for any other finish.

■ The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) lists all common driers as safe for food contact as long as the finish is made properly- that is, as long as the finish cures. (The FDA doesn't "approve" of finishes as some manufacturers claim. The FDA approves of ingredients and sets rules for testing that a finish cures properly.)

■ You have never heard of anyone (adult or child) being poisoned by contact with a cured clear finish. If someone had been poisoned, you can bet it would have made the news!

Let's finally put this myth to bed and use other, more legitimate, criteria for choosing a finish.

Flexner, Bob. Understanding Wood Finishing: How to Select and Apply the Right Finish (American Woodworker) (p. 76). Fox Chapel Publishing. Kindle Edition.

---------------------------------------


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## sgcz75b (Jan 21, 2019)

> Formby started the whole "Tung Oil Finish" BS in because he thought it sounded cool and would attract buyers. He was right. There s still confusion to this day, and your post proves it.
> 
> - Rich


Thanks for clearing that up. I'm sure that won't be my last confusement.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I ll have to look at those DeBuyer pans to replace my nonstick ware, I have some basic stuff from Bed Bath and Beyond where the nonstick coating is flaking off, can t be too healthy. I like making omelets but without a good pan, my omelets turn into frittatas. Thanks for the tip on that.
> 
> - SMP


I wouldn't get rid of all of your non-stick if I were you. They still serve a purpose. For an affordable brand, I tried Analon Copper since they are featured on the Top Chef and Top Chef Masters shows and I assumed those chefs wouldn't agree to compete with crappy cookware - sponsorship or not - and they perform well for me.

I've also got several pieces of Mauviel copper with stainless linings. Back in the '80s I decided I'd buy one per year. It was fun, but they are so damned heavy it's no fun to cook with them. They're worth a lot of money though, so maybe one day I'll sell them.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

Out gasing of VOC's in the home from just about everything in it, low VOC or no VOC wood finishes are making a comeback. Tung oil for hardwood floors because of matt finish popular with lot of new homeowners because easy to repair. Waterbased/borne providing some sheen popular for flooring and cabinets with other folks.

In many parts of the country going green very popular lots of young people so fit and finished going into their homes very important. Just couple articles of many on the web today. Federal & state governments have got into the VOC regulation too! With some states addressing the issue more than others.

https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quality-iaq/volatile-organic-compounds-impact-indoor-air-quality

https://www.greenhomeguide.com/know-how/article/selecting-healthy-and-environmentally-sound-finishes

When talking about food safe finished for wood concede its an up hill battle will never win. Will admit just about of my woodturngs use film finishes with exception of rolling pins and bowls use for food contact. Long before knew anything about going green turned some commisions for rolling pins and salad mixing & serving bowls. Man supplied hard maple wood for rolling pins, when asked about what kind of finish, told me none. Got the care & cleaning hand down from his family of use rung out kitchen towel & water towel no soap wipe down. Did know about using mineral oil for bowls & kitchen utensils so when got some commisions for them that's what use. Also supply a bottle with those items I sell. Learned early on not to use industrail or baby mineral oils and why at a turning symposium. While ladies sold my bowls too do use how soapy water to wash their bowls they knew how to reapply mineral oil and never put them in a dishwasher.

Posted this link earlier but maybe some people like Rick will take a look this time. While could not find Flexner's article on line and don't subscribe to that magazine do have an old copy of his book "Understanding Wood Finishes."

https://www.finewoodworking.com/2006/08/01/food-safe-finishes

Another reason will not use film finish on some stuff; turned some salt & pepper shakers one winter, brought them into the house when dry to the touch. Thought explained to the wife about these are not entirely dry and brought them inside to fully dry. Went back outside for another hour or two when returned wife had washed & scrubbed all the finish off them with hot soapy water!


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Flexner on tung vs linseed oil:

https://www.popularwoodworking.com/flexner-on-finishing-blog/comparing-linseed-oil-and-tung-oil/

His conclusion is using tung oil doesnt make a lot of sense.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> His conclusion is using tung oil doesnt make a lot of sense.
> 
> - OSU55


I don't use it often, but adding Japan drier at a 1 to 2 percent concentration like I do makes tung oil very practical. Here is a comparison after two hours of a 50/50 cut of tung oil and citrus solvent with Japan drier added to the one on the right.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

That is Flexner's personal opinion but disagree due to the fact BLO tends to darken with age and absorbs moisture so by itself doesn't protect wood no matter how many costs of the stuff you apply.

You will see BLO, raw linseed, Tung and lately walnut oils in most refinishing and furniture restoration shops and in any book on finishing & refinishing. Of course Japan dryers!

Although do not buy BLO any more. Found commercial oil varnish blend and homemade wiping varnish easier to work with. If go to any refinishing or furniture restoration shop will find BLO in addition to raw linseed, Tung and lately walnut oils.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

> His conclusion is using tung oil doesnt make a lot of sense.
> 
> - OSU55
> 
> ...


This is really a question about using an oil not really blo vs tung. What do you use it for? In my experiments I find that thinned poly applied like an oil, ie wiped off, looks the same, but dries faster and is harder. Only place I have used oil is on some tool handles, and have some done with poly as described. They feel the same.


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## LeeRoyMan (Feb 23, 2019)

Put a drop on your tongue and lick a piece of glass, if it comes off on the glass, it is tongue oil.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> His conclusion is using tung oil doesnt make a lot of sense.
> 
> - OSU55
> 
> ...


For me its about finding something more natural that doesn't destroy my skin, eyes, and lungs. As I have gotten older, I am getting really sensitive to chemicals. Even chemicals I used to use no problem. When I open a can with stuff with certain chemicals, I get headaches, eyes burn, skin gets cracked and flaky, feel nauseous etc. If I can find something that's a good enough finish that's not too bad to apply and doesn't cause me these side effects, then I am good. I put a first coat of this Behlens Tung Oil on a scrap of walnut last night, it says to wait at least 24 hours between coats, sanding with 400 between coats. I'm going to follow the instructions for 6 coats and report back in a week or so. I do like that it says you can apply with your hands. And the smell kind of smells like I'm making stir fry ( I cook stir fry with toasted sesame oil)


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