# HELP!! Hand Plane Identification



## Joshuah (Jan 10, 2011)

So I picked up this hand plane at a swap meet and was hoping for the expertise of my fellow woodworkers. 
I have been attempting to identify it for myself, but it seems as though the parts do not go together. Is there a chance it is a #17? I understand there was a mixture of older parts during WWII?










It is almost 9 1/2 inches



























Pat no 1918.750









442









c73









c44









It looks as though there is a red stain on all the wood


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## DocBailey (Dec 9, 2011)

Your lever cap dates to 1931-32 (type 15) - the rest of your plane looks to be considerably older. See for example the low front knob. From what I can see, I don't believe that is a Stanley plane. Let us know if there are any markings in the casting-pat dates, mfr names, etc.


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## GerryB (May 1, 2011)

Is it possible that it is a Handyman with the lever cap replaced with a Stanley?
GerryB


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## Joshuah (Jan 10, 2011)

Wow, that is not the news I was expecting!

So this is all I can see on the casting,









Also it looks as though the iron and obviously the lever cap are both stanley, as they both have stanley markings. Though the inside of the casting and the frog look to have the same aged black paint. So is it two planes combined?


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

I guess it is a frankenplane


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I would guess its a Defiance with a stanley cap and iron.


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## Lifesaver2000 (Nov 17, 2009)

This mixing of parts must be a common thing. On my last flea market day a few weeks ago, I found two #4 size planes together in a small, out of the way store. One had a type 14 or earlier Stanley lever cap and the other had one like pictured above. Both were marked "Stanley hand plane" on the tag but nothing other than the lever caps were marked as I would expect a Stanley to be marked.

Funny thing is, the "Made in USA" marking was exactly like in the picture above. Asking price on each was about $20.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Mixing of parts from one type to another was fairly common but mixing parts from a Defiance or Handyman to a Bailey wouldn't have originated from Stanley. It was probably done after, either because of breakage or loss.

I had just the opposite happen, I bought what I thought was a handyman. I turned out to be a nice type 8 Bailey #4 with a handyman cap.

You can see another thread on the issue. http://lumberjocks.com/topics/40640


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Base is a black painted Stanley Victor 1104? Same with the frog. Lever cap looks like a replacement.


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## Joshuah (Jan 10, 2011)

Well thank you all for the help, this just goes to show I have no idea what I am looking for when at yard sales and swap meets. WHAT should I look for!? Should they all have Stanley on the bed? Or is there little hints that would make sure I find good ones? I will obviously still use this one, I would just like to make sure I am gettin the real deal next time.
Thanks for all the past(and hopefully future) insight!


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Joshuah, it really depends on what you're looking for. I have put together some resources for dating planes; see the dating section here, http://lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/24092

Even among different experts are differences of opinions, so who knows. You'll see some differences in the links above. It seems to be the most consistent.

Except for the very small sizes, anything newer than type 7 will have "Bailey" cast in the sole. Earlier one didn't. I've been collecting for a while, and studying the Stanley Bailey lines, and I still make mistakes. I can usually tell if its a Stanley/Bailey but often get fooled on the type.

If it has Stanley stamped its probably a 4 square or similar. Thats not a bad thing, some of the 4 square collectable as well.

They can all be good users, including the ones you have, so you'll need to be more specific for exactly what your looking for, then plan some wiggle room.


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## Joshuah (Jan 10, 2011)

Don W, that looks like a good resource! 
I don't even know if I am looking for just Stanley's. I am wanting to use more hand tools and I feel like I would have a greater respect for the craft if I fixed up my own. I have just noticed that everyone seems to fix Stanley's. Is it that they were the best in the early 1900s? Or is it rhythm parts are more readily available?
I want to use the planes I fix, but I would also like to have them be "correct" pieces. I will still use this one, I would just like to stay away from frankenplanes (nice word "the dude"!) if I am going to go restore crazy on one.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

yea, looking for Just Stanley's leaves a lot of very nice (and sometimes valuable) planes out of scope. Sargents, Unions, Millers Falls, Ohio Tools, Sheltons, Wards masters, Winchester, and the Older Craftsman were all very good planes. And I'm sure I missed some.


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## Joshuah (Jan 10, 2011)

So is there a reason why stanley seems to be popular? I guess I should be less "tunnel focused" in looking for a good quality plane!!


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## Sasquatcher (Jul 31, 2012)

All this information seems very helpful. Yeah so when you are going to a swap meet, what are the best things to look for when looking for a quality plane?


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## Doss (Mar 14, 2012)

I apologize up front about the thread "steal"

what are the best things to look for when looking for a quality plane?

From a novice user and collector's perspective, I look for the rare planes first (No1 and 2 and a handful of others). For quality, I look for no cracks or chips, no hanging holes in the sole (that varies by person), how true everything looks, blade and the condition of other parts, etc. Are you collecting them or using them? That makes a big difference.

It's pretty straight-forward really when it comes to quality (I think). Now, knowing which parts go on which planes and all the minutiae is completely different and probably will be explained by one of the many experts here after my post.

I am currently looking for a good #7 or 8. I like users.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I've got a nice #7 I picked up I plane to re-sell if your interested PM me.

I agree with what Doss wrote. I look for rusted jems that need to be restored. You never know whats under the rust.


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

I agree with most of what Doss said but if your looking for a user a hang hole as long as it isnt huge is no biggie to me I am a user of quality antiques If I buy a plane to collect I look for pristine. If I am looking for a user I look for good bones don't worry about the paint job you can fix that easily you can even use the right kind of paint if you choose like me to make your planes like they came. However I cant tell a difference in the cutting of a plane with new Japan and one that is wasted as long as it isnt a rust bucket it can be restored. I have a nice Sand Blaster to remove bad finishes I use real Japan finish I de rust and polish every nut and bolt. I mate all the surfaces the right way and I get great results. Why Stanley that is simple they bought and closed most of the competition and they had some of the best Ideas. If you want the best Handplanes for the money buy Bedrocks Hands Down they are the best. I like the flat top models because they are a lot easier to dial in. I have a large selection of planes for sale as does Don. I specialize in Bedrocks As I feel they give the best performance to the customer. I think this is a proven design as it is copied by Lie Nielsen and Wood river. And I will go on the record again and say I love the new SW Stanley planes I only wish we had a full line of them to collect. I have been told that my wish is going to come true soon. That there will be a complete line in the next 5 years. I hope my Informant is correct. I currently have a load of bedrock 605s and I have a nice 606 for sale and ready to ship. PM me if your Interested in my planes.


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