# Wood work. Can it be a profitable Hobby? Your experiences if transitioning from another field.



## JSan (Dec 26, 2012)

Hello all, I'll get to the point. If you have transitioned from a different career and made wood working you main career or at least a profitable hobby, what has been your experience. I would like to know your challenges, satisfaction, tips, etc. Experiences from professionals or amateurs will be apreciated. I currently work in an office (well actually a cubicle) but have the desire of one day making woodworking if not my main source of income but at least a profitable hobby. My woodworking interest are vintage and rustic woodworks and wood signs. Thank you all for your time.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

How to make money in today's world:
1. Have a college degree. A graduate degree helps.
2. Have no morals. Do/screw anyone to advance.
3. Have a moral facade. Go to church, join groups, give to charities.
4. Have a wife that also practices 1 through 3.
5. Have kids but sub their upbringing out to nannies.
If you follow the above suggestions religiously (pun intended) you'll be wildly successful.
Oh, number six…have a hobby you can show and display. Woodworking would be a good choice.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

There are plenty of woodworkers making a living. I transitioned the other way. You need to be better at marketing/business than woodworking. If you look at most really highly successful woodworkers, they taught, wrote, spoke, and did a host of other related activities to make a decent living. Have a good location helps as well. I live out in the middle of no where, so customers don't drive by my place ever.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

I highly doubt you could ever make enough money making vintage/rustic furniture and wood signs to ever come close to supporting a family. See woodworking for what it is…a hobby.


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## Puzzleman (May 4, 2010)

Hello. I made the transition to make my hobby my full time job. I work more hours per week than ever before. I make less money than I have made before. I am having more fun than ever before.

Listen to DonW. Making wood products is easy. Selling and marketing is the hard work.

I a
Would strongly suggest checking out a blog series done by Huff on marketing. He provides very valuable insights. He also has a blog series on pricing. Also very informative.

Most important thing is that this is a business. You have to be able to manage work. Do you this now as a hobby? Do you know what your costs are for what you do? Do you know ALL of your costs ( direct & hidden )? Read both of the series by Huff and take it to heart. Run your hobby as a business. Track ALL off your labor hours.

Read Huff's slog series on pricing and marketing and put them into practice with your hobby. You will be able tell if you can make money at this. If you make money with your hobby, you have a great start.


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## JSan (Dec 26, 2012)

Excellent tips so far… thank you all. It's good to hear all sides.


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

I retired from construction work with a decent pension and I now do wood working as a hobby/business. I put in about 35 hours a week and sell at street fairs and festivals. The sales of these things I make pays for my hobby and my equipment but I could never live on that income alone…..Life is good!


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## JSan (Dec 26, 2012)

Jim Finn…i think my wife would love that…. its sound interesting… thanks alot.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

JSan, there are thousands of very good woodworkers in the US. There are thousands of very good basketball players in the US. Very few make it to the NBA. The few very good woodworkers that have made it and can support a family are the exception. I'm not trying to put a downer on you but I would hang on to the cubicle. You haven't told us how many kids you have. You haven't told us if your wife works and what she does. If she could be the primary bread winner then you might have a chance if you are one of the very good woodworkers. So-so and mediocre don't make it in any business. Have a dream but mix a little reality in.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

DKV, men you are really becoming a PITA. You have not contributed anything worth while to this thread.

JSan, the secret is to have a *selling* venue in mind before you even make a single piece. A good marketing plan and a place where people can see your work will get you on the road to success.

OTOH, if you want to make cabinets and that sort of thing, I would advice against it. It is a cutthroat overcrowded field. Anyway, these are my 2 cents.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Jorge, not to start an argument but what part of my posts are a pain in the ass? The reality parts that I've added so the OP can make an informed decision? I would like a show of hands from all LJer's that have quit their jobs and were able to support a family doing woodworking of antique/rustic furniture and wooden signs. Give the guy a break. I like dreams as much as the next person but temper those dreams.


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## huff (May 28, 2009)

JSan,

Woodworking can be a profitable hobby as well as a profitable business, but there is a huge difference between the two.

As a hobby; most will tell you that anything you sell your work for over material cost is their profit, so depending on how much you want to put back into your hobby will be how much profit you might want to make. Usually it has nothing to do with actually making a living or paying yourself.

As a business; (other then non-profit businesses) you have to treat woodworking with a totally different mind set. For most woodworkers, this is really a hard bridge to cross; taking a hobby to a professional business.

Pricing, Marketing and Sales will be three crucial elements for having a successful woodworking business and if you don't master those, you will at best, only have a hobby that makes a little money.

If you treat your woodworking as a hobby; then it will always be a hobby. If you think you can't make a living doing woodworking; then you will never make a living doing it.

It doesn't matter if you're building birdhouses or high-end custom furniture, you can make a living doing so if you know how to price, market and sell your work.

Good luck and wish you the best for success.


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## JSan (Dec 26, 2012)

DKV, I'll hang on to my cubicle that's for sure. I'll deviate a little bit from my topic. I guess I need to get started some where. I don't have any training in wood work. The little that I know is purely by trial and error and I keep on trying because it's a great satisfaction on doing something that you really enjoy. I do like my cubicle work but is not something I envision doing years from now. In the meantime and to continue self teaching wood working I need to buy supplies, tools, etc. but obviously it can add up so right now I see it purely as a hobby but I want that hobby to at least to pay for itself and from the few replies I received so far I think that can be achieved. It would be interesting to know how you got started in woodworking if you don't mind. Thanks for your comments.


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## JSan (Dec 26, 2012)

DKV, no offense taken. I honestly appreciate your comments, really. I am really interested in you all's experiences, specially from your early days in woodworking.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Your first post for example, you sound bitter. While I have known people you describe, it is usually a minority.

The OP asked if it is possible, he did not specify if it was easy. Restoration of antique furniture can be very lucrative, if you know what you are doing.

In the end, I don't see how your opinions are the "reality part" when you don't do woodworking for a living and have never run such a business. Why don't you let those of us who have respond and maybe you can learn something instead of posting those opinions you have a hunch are correct.


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## JSan (Dec 26, 2012)

Jorge G. I think you are right. I think there is a good market for restoration of antique or vintage furniture.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Jorge, I stand by everything I've posted. From the sounds of your last post am I right in assuming you make a living doing woodworking? To give you the benefit of the doubt I went to look at your projects and I found only pictures of dogs. Did I go to the right home page? Do you have a website I can visit to look at your builds? Show me the reality you say my opinions lack. Help me understand what you're trying to tell me.
Thanks,


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## JSan (Dec 26, 2012)

Ok guys, please stay on topic.


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## JSan (Dec 26, 2012)

DKV, by the way I'm not looking for a counselor or someone to guide me in life. I'm an educated person with a decent paying job, BUT I lack experience in what I enjoy and love doing, woodworking, that's all. I'm looking for advice from those who have the experience.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Speaking of birdhouses (see huff's post above) I have a buddy who has been a woodworker most of his life.

After he retired from his job (ten years ago) he decided to see if he could make a business out of his hobby. He built a bunch of birdouses and set up at a summer craft fair.

Business was so-so until one customer asked if he could build a quantity. Figuring the guy was talking about a half dozen or so, he said sure, and gave the guy his phone number.

A week later, the phone rang and he got an order for 300 birdhouses! The customer was actually a buyer for a chain of garden and floral shops.

My friend gets orders twice a year, and is supplying about 1,000 birdhouses and birdfeeders to the garden shops each year. He has a couple of other small wholesale customers, and does not sell direct to the public, so marketing costs are a non-issue to him. He only builds a couple of designs, keeps meticulous records, and even factors a one dollar 'tool charge' into each piece he sells.

There's no way he could live on what he makes woodworking, but it is a nice supplement to his other retirement income. He told me he clears between $7K and $8K a year.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

JSan, sounds like everyone has given you great advice, Huff especially, I'm retired and have a sole income along with my hobby income I do the market monthly events and online sales as well, but there's no way I could make a living off of my woodworking, there's two avenues I can think of that you'd be able to make a living, first would be cabinetry which is very hard work, I know that's how I got my start after two kitchens I had all I wanted, second would be a lengthy time invested in woodworking skill to of developed your on designs in high end furniture that would sale for a very high price.

What I'd do if I were you keep your job, and spend as much time as possible when not in the cube doing woodwork.


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## JSan (Dec 26, 2012)

Good advice Blackie… guess where I'm running after work… you're right, to build something.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

JSan, enjoying the topic you've created immensely. Wished I had real-life experience to offer, but alas…

I don't know how many thousands of woodworkers there are in the US, but I'm thinking there's not but a relative handful that make a decent living from it. And in many different ways, to include custom work, production runs and even teaching. Not a single 'formula' besides finding what works for them.

Good luck reaching your dream, looking forward to following along.


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## JSan (Dec 26, 2012)

Smitty_Cabinetshop, I'm sure I'm not the only one out there dreaming of one day doing what they love for a living! Enjoy the topic as I'm. Thanks.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Jorge and JSan, I almost decided not to write this post. But I just couldn't end my contributions based on both of you saying if I don't have any experience then I shouldn't be answering.

1. I worked with startups for 20 years. I know how to price products down to the number of seconds an action takes to the cost of materials and labor to make those actions happen.
2. My wife worked in marketing for 20 years. We understand all aspects of marketing and selling products.
3. I forget how many products, processes and proposals I've costed over my career.
4. I owned my own small consulting business and employed six people not including my accountant and lawyer.

After my wife and I retired we decided to do something together from home. I love woodworking. We did our research and found an industry that looked like it may work for us. We love animals and the pet industry is a multi billion dollar a year play yard. I had been making some steps for our older animals to use and it seemed the perfect combo of our business expertise and my love of woodworking.

We priced everything to the penny and minute on what it took to make a set of steps. We priced all the logistics it would take to support making and delivering the product. We even went to see a lawyer to write the liability words we included on our website. There was not one, I repeat one, aspect of starting a business that we did not cover. Local business license, check. Registered LLC with the state, check. Choice of accounting software, check. Professional website development, check. Paypal, check. Credit cards, check. Professional product pictures, check. Visit to an accountant to understand taxes, check. On and on and on.

We sold pet steps until the economy and discretionary spending went south. Now, if that is not experience with doing woodworking business then I do not know what is. If you care to check out the steps we built you can see them on my project page.


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## TravisH (Feb 6, 2013)

Definitely can be done but one needs to be completely honest with the numbers when trying to compare their current job and wood working revenue. Too many aren't honest and skew the results to I think make themselves feel better about the decision.

My situation… salary, medical/dental/vision, company life insurance policy, 2 months paid time off a year (vacation, holidays, sick days, etc..), 401k plan with the typical match, less than 20 mile round trip commute (yes one needs to take into gas, vehicles, etc.. ), bonuses, and work 40 hours a week (come and go as I please just need to get the time in). For me to go out on my own it would be very tough to even come close to match the time commitment to reward.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Jsan
I feel your either in business or not so the profitable hobby is a bit confusing statement to me. I get many PM's asking about going into the woodworking business ,generally I tell folks not to ruin a great hobby by trying to go into business doing woodworking. I've owned a wood shop as a business for 25 plus years and wish I could made more projects that I like instead of what a customer wants. There are people who can make a living in wood working but there are many who can not. Like any business you have to have many skills to succeed including: marketing skills. business skills ,knowledge of bookkeeping, knowledge of local laws and rules and more. Many Many *VERY* talented woodworkers struggle make a living woodworking and try and supplement their WW by teaching,making videos ,selling plans etc. There are a good number of threads on Ljs about going into the woodworking business I suggest you take a look at them to help answer your own question. One of the biggest challenges in the wood working business are the woodworkers who make products that they sell for material cost or less ,all because they love woodworking. So unless you make product that is totally unique, that will usually take a very specific technique or talent then your are competing with the Hobbyist who has little concern about profit,making your efforts impossible if you wish to really have a profitable business. You mention that your well educated , I suggest you stick with your day job and enjoy woodworking as a wonderful hobby. Best of luck to you regardless of the route you take.


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## JSan (Dec 26, 2012)

DKV, thank you for valuable contribution. I do agree with you that you really need to pay attention to all the details of your work (business,). I'll definetely check your project page. I have business & accounting experience so I think that would help. Another thing that I have going for me is a very supportive wife.

Thanks again.


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## natenaaron (Jun 24, 2013)

I met a few people who turned their hobbies into jobs. Only one stuck with it because, for the others, the joy disappeared. The one that stuck with it could sell poo to a feed lot and air conditioners to Eskimos. According to him the selling was almost as much fun as what he was making. He was also the only single person.

Good luck whatever you choose.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Look into 32mm cabinetmaking, True32 and Woodweb.

Some people really prosper in the business but it's
debately something you would recognize as woodworking.

I think if you have the means to get the space for it
you could make some income in some areas by owning
a wide belt sander and/or a CNC machine and doing
cut/sand jobs for contractors and small cabinet shops.

I don't think you'll have much luck making decent money
in rustic furniture… you may be able to do ok if you
become a master of ladderback chairs or something
like that.

There is a market for signs. Buy a CNC machine. There
are journals for people in the sign business.

In general custom woodworking (cabinetry, furniture and millwork)
there is a big learning curve to learn to work to professional
standards and getting there with home-shop type 
equipment is problematical with the expectations 
in today's market being what they are. Beyond that,
there's a lot to learn about doing a business.

All business is hard work though. Not just the ones that 
seem like fun.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

To touch on what Loren mentioned there's also Laser engraving for making signs.


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## mbs (May 8, 2010)

I thought I was going to be laid off some years ago so I started down the path of designing and prototyping a new style of plantation shutter. I already had some tools I needed to get started but they weren't ready for mass production. At that time the housing market was booming and there were many shutter shops in business. I thought my design could take a portion of the market share. I went to a lawyer to get a patent and he advised me against proceeding because he felt the small shops would copy the design and there would be little recourse.

I costed everything out and the margins were reasonable if I didn't comply with regulations associated with finishing. However, looking back, I didn't allocate enough cost for the non-production cost like SG&A. I only know this now from running a mfg plant. And the market research highlighted the need to move the shop every x years to close to the new houses otherwise travel time would consume too much of the workday. .

Luckily, I didn't get laid off from my day job and I didn't launch the business. I believe my cost analysis was too conservative. And the market shrunk to the point that there is only one or two shutter businesses still around and one of them is half the size it was in the 90's.

Like most people who responded, I wouldn't start a woodworking business if I needed the money to survive. Most people who have responded to your question talk about profitability but its likely your most immediate hurdle would be cash flow. Equipment, tooling, wood, scrap, consumables and late customer payments can suck the life out of a mfg business.

Good luck.


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## RobsonValley (Jul 28, 2013)

I like DKV's post, but the 'wife' thing is superfluous. 'Partner' m/f is a better bet.
SWMBO is a curtain on your plans. You will be allowed to do only what she permits.

You have to figure out how to work fast with cheap wood to make stuff that the public adore.
I do that and the sales are slow and steady.
My GF/partner/hunting buddy supports everything I do. I have built (crazy) projects, such as large trebuchet, but she does not blink. She expects first bragging rights. That's correct. 14 trebuchet, up to 5,000lbs in the counterweight.


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## JSan (Dec 26, 2012)

From the replies I get, which I really appreciate them all… seems that my best bet is to treat it as a hobby and enjoy it, get better at it, enjoy it much more, find something unique or distinct to do if possible and when or if the time is right it can become another source of income, specially at retirement or if my regular work requirement change. It's true that some of the enjoyment is lost when instead of a hobby it becomes a work that you must do.


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

I am a hobby woodworker. I do sell my stuff and keep a separate bank account to funnel money in and buy material with. I kick out about 15 pieces a year for sale. Most of my other builds are gifts. If you look at my projects page, 20% of these were sold. Some I kept the rest were gifts. Currently my little hobby account has $600 in it.


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## JSan (Dec 26, 2012)

RobsonValley, I had to google trebuchet, haaaa, interesting….very interesting…


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## cabmaker (Sep 16, 2010)

JSan, not much I can add to what has already been offered. I cant really identify to working wood as a hobby since it is what I do for a living and have done so for 40 plus years now.

Your perceived goal is certainly obtainable, BUT consider a few things:

It will take you many, many hours to develop a skill set that will be able to launch you into a niche market,whatever that is to be.

Big difference I see in pro and hobby is that as a hobbiest, one may spend lots and lots of time on a small amount of material and a pro will handle lots and lots of material in a short amount of time. And in a professional manner, with professional results.

I well understand the allure of endeavors that are seemingly theraputic,fun , gratifying and all that, I even took a notion once that metal detecting would be the thing that would complete my world. So I bought one. After a dozen outings and finding a dollars worth of coins and bear bottle tops I sorta lost that allure that all the wonderful tales I had read described.

I am no good at bowling, golf and many other things but the love and passion of working wood is what got my kids raised and put a roof over our heads. I never had that crutch of a second income from my wife. She was a stay at home mom and is now a stay at home grandmother. I am telling you this only to illustrate that if you have a crutch to fall back on you probably will.

If your brave enough, and want it bad enough, turn in a 30 day notice at your cubicle job and charge the hill.

One other thing: As your buying tools and equipment, look for the long haul.

You asked this forum what do we think, question is what do you think?

Enjoy the journey and wish you well with your plight my friend. J B


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## RobsonValley (Jul 28, 2013)

JSan: Good. I have built some (14) of them, I was tired of simply reading history. I wanted to be a participant, not a spectator. Fantastically entertaining (summing up 6-8 paragraphs of experiences.)
Anything, from table-top "banquet-busters" to hog-tossing monsters will cripple and main you. Or possibly kill you outright. That thought has crossed my mind more than once. No drinkie!


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## Loco (Aug 11, 2013)

I'm old and have done many things. I've "worked" every day(pretty much) including X-mess, New years etc.since I got my first huge paper route when I was 12.
I sorta retired in 1997. Farming can NOT be considered real retirement.
Today I still do everything from Gun work to knife making to pond building, welding, light machining,backhoe service,furniture work (mostly design and re-do). I make ham and sausage for sale.
I LOVE retirement !
Emergency services will find me 1/2 buzzed and dead with a tool in my hand and a machine running close by. That's the way to go, for me.
Rant over !
*Do what you enjoy…WELL.. and you'll survive.*
my granddaughter agrees.


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## HowardInToronto (Sep 27, 2013)

Jorge and Huff - I like your style.

I'm new here but DKV - lighten up.

As many have said here - you can make a living doing woodworking. No question. Dollar-wise you'd probably do better doing something else.

But if you can keep body and soul together. And put some aside for a rainy day and retirement, I'd think you'd have a great gig - doing something you care about doing for money and living life on your own terms. Who can put a price on THAT?

Start small. Assuming you already have the technical skills to get yourself started, learn the business side. That's what'll keep you in business! Set a target by the end of three months - sell enough to pay your cable bill or car payment after fixed and variable exp[enses and taxes are accounted for.

Then CELEBRATE! Because that is a VICTORY!

After that start ramping up your targets. You'll acquire more confidence because you'll understand what goes into repeatedly making a steady income.

THEN - start looking at leaving your job to pursue your dream.

Howard


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Howard, lighten up? OK.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

The unknown craftsman is a good book to read if your thinking about woodworking for a living.I myself am barely treading water and will probably be sunk before the end of the year.One or two machine go down no money to fix and game over.
It's wont be the first time I've been here but it's harder to rise up the older I get.Good luck Aj


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

It's easy to say that it can't be done and not try. I am trying. It's not easy, but it is SLOWLY going in the right direction. There are many rights and wrongs. But no perfect answer. Location is huge. Field saturation is huge. Marketing is really huge. There was a reference to 2 blog series by LJ huff. Read both thoroughly and repeatedly. If you are unable or unwilling to follow those basics, it probably won't happen. I wish everyone on this website could have a wonderful living doing this. But the reality is most won't be able to. Some can't because of location or other personal situations. Most can't because of themselves. It takes the right mindset, effort and sacrifice to make it successful in any field.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Folks always make plans as to what to do if their business succeeds, but they don't make plans what to do if it doesn't work out. Woodworking is a great hobby but it can be a really tough business to make a living at.


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## tncraftsman (Oct 21, 2009)

I've been in the woodworking business full time for the past 3.5 years. Before that I was working in the I.T. industry for almost 15 years. I consider myself more of a craftsman than a woodworker. In addition to WW I am also a home improvement contractor and do a lot of work out of the shop.

My wife has a good job (medical insurance, for now), we have no debt other than low mtg pmt and no kids. I saved a good chunk of change while I was working in I.T., have a good start on retirement and own some rental property. Without those conditions I wouldn't have even dreamed of going into the WW/contracting business full time.

The economics of being a "woodworker" is against you. As 1 person you can only produce so many products. You can choose to invest in the tools, space and labor to produce more product but now you have to sell so much more product to cover your overhead. You'll need deep pockets to cover your overhead in the lean times.

I've broken even and made a little money doing this. As each day passes I mull the idea of shutting it down and moving into something else to make more money.

Getting into this business was more of a means to an end than wanting to be a "fine" woodworker. I had reached a point in my life where I needed a big change. I was burnt out and the toxic corporate environment was killing me.

Overall it was the right decision. I am happy in what I am doing but struggling to make a living. It would have been irresponsible of me to make this decision if I had kids to support.

It's neither a good or bad decision. You need to know why you want to leave the cube life. Are you yearning to make a living selling your creations or do you need a change of environment.


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## MarkTheFiddler (May 29, 2012)

Howdy, love the thread.

Here is what I worry about as a person who would love to dive in.

Do I make what I see in my head or do I make what will sell? If I go with what's in my head, I think I'll starve. If I go with what sells, I think I'll stop loving woodworking.

Because of those thoughts, there is only one way I can see for me to make it. Keep learning and enjoying. Keep pushing the limits. Try to make something that will bought by folk with deep pockets. Really deep pockets. Get the first sale for $10,000. Not for an immaculate dining room set but for something like a cocktail table.

In other words, it's about gaining acceptance as an artist to the folk who can have whatever they want. If they choose my vision, it doesn't make me the best it just means I connected with them on some emotional level that goes beyond our thinking about 'what it's worth'.

I don't believe I will ever reach that point but it doesn't stop me from trying right now.

What I can't do is become a wonderful artist who sells beautiful pieces at festivals for 10 to 50 bucks each. My heart goes out to those folk because I know what if feels like when someone loves your art. My fiddling background has given me my fill.

What I can't do is work hard and make what will sell at the expense of my creativity. I practically lost my soul in the upholstery business. The little things end up giving you nightmares. I could write a book on that.

Right now, if I decide to sell something, whether it be fiddling, upholstery or woodworking, it's on my terms and only mine. I'm already working behind a desk all day long. I won't let what I love ever cause me stress again. That makes me a lousy entrepreneur, but I can smile while I'm doing it.

As for me becoming a wood working artist, I very very humbly say I am one. Will I ever sell my art at a big ticket price? Who knows? It could happen to all of us.


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## jeffswildwood (Dec 26, 2012)

Woodworking as a business, what a dream for me. But i know for me it's just a hobby. I love making things but I know I could never make a business out of this. I do have occasional sales, mostly people who see something I made as a gift, for the wife or for me and want one also. Or the occasional "hey Jeff, can you make a …..."? Most of the time I just get wood cost back with a little for me for labor. Hardly ever factored in is the gas to get the wood, stain or polyurethane, "I got half a can left of red oak or am I out", or tool wear and tear, "wow, my forstner bits are really dull" I've lost money on projects just with this factor alone. But I had fun doing this so to me it was worth while! Lose 10.00 on a project or pay 10.00 for beer, I choose woodworking cause I enjoyed it more! Plus I know some one got a quality item, pride! I hope to enter a craft fair someday but can't afford the wood to be tied up while I stock up on projects. So, for me I think I'll keep it a hobby but I dream of having 50 orders for something and the wife say "Jeff, I just got another order for 100 treasure boxes".


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