# woodworking school... not for a week, but months or years...



## benomatic42 (Oct 21, 2007)

I suppose that now is as good a time as any to think out loud… twiddling my thumbs waiting for a some friends to show up on a friday night. So I'll start off by saying, "Please bear with me. I'm a talker."

Since getting my fingers (just barely) dirty and back into this interesting hobby, I've found myself wondering repeatedly about the "turn your hobby into a career" idea.

In a year and a half my wife will be finished with residency, and I will have a bit of freedom… meaning I can stop worry about being the sole source of income for a the first time in a while. Along this line of thought, I wonder what's better: the school of hard knocks, or the school of furniture and craftsmanship?

Has anybody here gone through one of the substantial woodworking schools, a la College of the Redwoods, Northwest Woodworking School, any of the many high quality community college programs, etc.? Or have any people done a substantial apprenticeship? What do these give you that you are likely to miss (or overpay in time) to get by learning on your own?

I would love to hear the details of what you walked in expecting, and what you walked out knowing. *If* I went down this kind of path, why would make this kind of excursion worthwhile? Would I be better off just spending the time and money building my own things for a year to build up a "gallery"?

I welcome all thoughts, reflections, inspirations, and even down-to-earth, cynical observations… 

(Meandering stream of thought is now done…)

<< EDIT >>

After seeing a couple responses, I realize I left out a few useful details about my own situation. First off, I'm closer to novice than experienced, but not totally ign'ant. I took a 1 week 'basics' course with Jeff Lohr, and loved every minute of it-even the review of things I knew, or thought I knew. I am a software engineer, and think like an engineer… My childhood fostered a musical ear, but not an artful eye, and frankly would hope to develop that more than I worry about developing technique.

Overall, my "ideal" for going to such a school would be the mentorship and the peer environment that I simply can't get from self-driven learning.

-ben


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## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

School of hard knocks for me, but I think being en engineer helped.

If you don't know squat, it woud be a good idea to go to a school.

If you know more than squat, then I would think it would depend on how much more you know
and what your plans are.


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## teenagewoodworker (Jan 31, 2008)

before you start thinking about a school try watching videos and then trying. everything that i know was self taught through the New Yankee Workshop, The Wood Whisperer, and Wood Works. If you watch those and actually apply what they cover in your projects you will see major improvement in your projects. as for schools im not so sure.


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## gizmodyne (Mar 15, 2007)

I could write on this topic for hours. I have taken many classes at a community college. I went from novice to well… better in a short time. I have supplemented the classes with lots of reading, but watching the thinking and methods of a professional is extremely helpful.

It is creative environment with all levels working side by side. There is always someone working on something interesting and also someone to bounce ideas with.

Somethings are better in person. I read a billion articles on squaring stock. It never clicked till class.

Also, I was able to use professional equipment.

I recommend classes to anyone who wants to improve quickly. Community colleges are great.


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## benomatic42 (Oct 21, 2007)

Gary-if only I knew what my plans were… I am an engineer by habit and by trade, and I come from a family of engineers, builders and farmers. But developing an eye may be more important than developing a skill.

tww-i've watched nearly every video I can get my hands on, and they provide a great starting point, but it's never the same as having experienced people next to you. that's why I wonder…

gizmo-you sound like your experiences line up with my thinking  unfortunately there is no CC available in my area, so I'm trying to think bigger.


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

The only Community College near me is doing construction. Nothing woodworking. maybe I need to go suggest that to them.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

Kaleo went to a woodworking school.

When reading your blog, what stood out for me was I took a 1 week 'basics' course with Jeff Lohr, and loved every minute of it-even the review of things I knew, or thought I knew. Sounds like woodworking school, for you, would be rewarding on its own, even if you did the "hard knocks" school before/after/during.


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## gerrym526 (Dec 22, 2007)

Ben,
Haven't attended a woodworking school long-term, yet. (Am looking into mult-year courses currently). However my advice would be along the lines of my own experience (much like others have posted here)

-self-learning, ie. continue to watch every video/dvd you can, and start building a woodworking book library together with getting a subscription to Fine Woodworking and reading it cover to cover

-community college adult education courses. This was actually how I got hooked. If you sign up for courses you a) get professional instruction, b) get to use a workshop full of commercial grade tools, and 3) meet other more experienced woodworkers who take the courses repeatedly to get access to bigger power tools than they have

-try one week courses in various subjects first. I highly recommend your first course be one focussed on joinery (with hand & power tools).

-visit professionaly woodworkers shops and studios and talk with them about how they built their busineses

-finally, after all that, if you still want to take a multi-year course there are a number along the eastern side of the US where you live from Maine to Massachusetts to try.

Best of luck, hope this helps.


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## dennis (Aug 3, 2006)

I'm a community college product and served as an apprentice….College was cool I got to learn every phase from glue up to finish. The whole ball of wax. On the job training was nice because I got a pay check, but you end up doing just one thing for a whole year. At the end of the first year you might be pretty good at drilling holes in drawer faces….


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## Tangle (Jul 21, 2007)

I can't say I'm self taught because of all the fine teachers in FWW and PW and here at Lumber Jocks. There is something to be said for working with a mentor or teacher because we all can mimic what someone is doing. From a school you will receive a starting process. You will learn to start at the beginning and go to the finish. From this process you can begin to develop your own process. I've watched so many who not only don't have the answers but don't yet know what the question is. I think school for you , Ben.


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## benomatic42 (Oct 21, 2007)

Seems like most people here are thinking the way that I am… which ultimately means I am leaning toward a school.

Dennis, you are thus far unique in having been an apprentice. Did you get more takeaway than drilling holes? My guess is that apprenticeships vary a great deal… I've found some online that specifically target building 6 gallery quality pieces over the course of a year, and others that appears to be equally dynamic, but less specific.

To me, the biggest con to an apprenticeship is having 1 instructor-and perhaps carrying that person's biases, techniques, etc. without variation. The biggest plus is the opportunity to get more real attention, and the ability to personalize the learning.

In any case, thanks for all the feedback so far. I might have to ping Kaleo with a message and ask him to chime in as well 

-b


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## dennis (Aug 3, 2006)

I guess I have to break down the apprenticeship thing into two different experiences. The first was as an acoustical apprentice with the Carpenters union. That was "just a job" I enjoyed, but most was just about making the boss money. I can now install suspended ceilings in my sleep. The second was with a artist who did murals. I learned the basics. I learned his style. I drank his coffee. If was fun but still not real creative. Even the community college was geared toward the industrial processes. Something like College of the Redwoods might be a real treat.


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## Gofor (Jan 12, 2008)

Another viewpoint:

"Woodworking as a career" is like saying "Engineering as a career". Very broad, and I doubt many could master all the different disciplines. To make it profitable unless you are rarely gifted, you will need to narrow the scope, choose a category, find a reputable source of basic instruction, and spend the time needed to refine your skills, build your client base and reputation, and then you can expand your horizons as you feel needed within your capabilities.

You can be an exquisite craftsman in making Maloof style rocking chairs, but if you have no client base or reputation, you will not make a living at it. However, I also know people who do make a living building good quality pine furniture and saleable items that they market on the craft show circuit.

In the field of woodworking you are up against the cheap imports produced by cheap labor. Quality and custom work does sell, and is profitable if you are able to access the right market, obtain the materials (which is getting more difficult daily), and your price goes up with the reputation. None of that comes from a school, but from time spent refining the skills, and then establishing a client/reference base.

This is not meant to dissuade you. Rather, it is to encourage you to start with a small scope, develop that skill to where you are sought after for your product, and then apply that skill as customers come to you asking for something that stretches your capabilities.

Go


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## benomatic42 (Oct 21, 2007)

Gofor,

Thank you for the honest thoughts. When I second guess this idea, it's due to these facts more than my potential ceiling as a craftsman.

-b


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## Kaleo (Jan 25, 2007)

Ben-

Sorry it has taken me so long to write on this topic. I have been and still am traveling in return from woodworking school. For me school was about learning from the hand of masters. Being able to spend time with men that have been or are doing this for a living was vital. But I know that a 2 year program is not for everyone. What I wanted to accomplish was cram 10 years of time that it would take for me to teach myself into 2 years. I think that this type of program is for those who are trying to be professional furniture makers.

There are plenty of schools out there. I would always encourage people to go and take a class here or there to develop there skills. That is the fun of learning.

I have written about this on my blog at http://kaleosworkshop.com just looking for the post called woodworking 101 and woodworking 201.


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## robbi (Jul 28, 2007)

Ben,
Here are my thoughts…sometimes your passion isn't your profession. I ventured out into the "Professional Photography" field during a time in my life. I specialized in children portraits and did hand colored black and white before it was mainstream. I had a good client base, I live in a community that has people that could afford my work and I think I was very good at it. But I realized that as much as I loved doing it, I loved doing it without deadlines. I loved taking my time and making it "just right". And as an artist, you loose some of your creativity when you are producing something for someone else that has their own vision. I think all art forms are very subjective and therefore more difficult to make a career out of. And then, when you thought you were only going to be an artist and it turns out you also have to be a salesperson, advertiser, organizer and let's not forget you have to pay those bills….somehow the art end of it ends up being the small part of what you are doing. I hope this isn't to off topic. But what you are thinking of doing is an "art" and I commend you for wanting to do this professionally, I am not saying your experience will be the same as mine, just wanted to give you a little food for thought. Good luck in whatever you decide, oh, by the way, as far as school, I think it is very helpful and gives you foundation for your skills. Then you just keep doing it until you're really good at it….then who knows what life might hold.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

2 cents, more like 100 dollar bill.

I studied engineering despite my families long history of religion ,law, medicine and engineering, quit to do what I am passionate about…......woodworking. Studied Industrial woodworking. When I graduated I thought I knew it all, that I was now an expert until I got a placement as an apprentice at a high end furniture/cabinet/millwork shop. It took about an hour, maybe two before I realized I was in way over my head. I was not only humbled but humiliated…..................but I stuck it out and starved doing it.

Over the next 25 years or more, I have worked at a dozen shops practising my trade. Sometimes the money was good, sometimes it wasnt. Sometimes the work was fun but most often it was extremely stressful, the more I learned and excelled at, the higher the stress level went. ........and when you are finally the shop numero uno, the stress level is like a tachometer…..............mostly red lines.

Of all the trades out there, it is my opinion that "Joinery" is the worst of them all for so many reasons. your the last one into a home or office where the nerves are fraziled. You tripover painters, electricians, plumbers, tilers, grunts and clients. You have to build what folks buy in a heated shop, you have to fill that shop with very expensive tools and you often have to store the product that you built, for weeks and weeks, maybe months. try comparing the cost overheads of an electrician, plumber, drywaller,painter VS a cabinet maker and the look at what all get paid per hour…..........to the very least, it can be discouraging.

The trade isnt regulated either, so you have to compete against the best of the best and those folks arent stupid by any means. Their pencils are as sharp as they come. You have to ask yourself…..Why would a client want to buy your product, you being new, inexperienced over the man/woman who already has a name, a proven track record and references beyond compare?...........thus comes the pencil, the price, the compitition and isnt always pretty.

Forget making money, forget being home for dinner, forget holidays. Remember that their is a man or a woman just around the corner, who just graduated, or just bought their second table saw and opened up shop and they want the job your bidding on and they have no idea how to price it. Remember that there are people out there, with mouths to feed and bills to pay, who work for wages and often those wages arent very much.

I have never stopped my education and often sign up with a world champion carvers, world renowned finsher/painters, etc.. I read, sleep, eat, dream woodworking. I try and make like a sponge absorbing everything and anything about wood and wood by products and the funny thing is,..........I still dont know very much, the older I get, the more this becomes true but suffice to say, the little bit I do know, is quite a bit more them most and by the time I really have something to pass on, my guess, it will be my turn to "Pass on"

It is also my opinion that most of the best woodworking schools arent on this side of the pond, they are in Europe and not to say that we dont have excellent/bar none schools, because we do. Every one has dreams of starting at the top…........I'm not sure, but I dont believe this is the way life works.

It is a very, very, long road, a road that doesnt end.

At almost 50 years young, I would be lying if I told you, that there werent times I didnt regret taking law, medicine, engineering and doing woodworking as a hobby.

I liken woodworking into a cosmic "BLACK HOLE"...........attached to your wallet.

That said…............I most often, love what I do.


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## benomatic42 (Oct 21, 2007)

Thank you all for the continuing insight. It really sounds like

school would be awesome,
success will feel unreachable,
money will be tight, and
I will go to sleep happier every night.

I've begun the process of applying, so while my decision isn't final yet, the door is open, and the cold air is coming in 

-b


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## benomatic42 (Oct 21, 2007)

I suppose a small update here is appropriate. I applied to the Center for Furniture Craftsmanship in Maine , visited for a day, and accepted the invitation to join.

I will start in September, and will try to keep a blog of the experience, to keep my wife, family and friends up to date. Maybe it will even recruit one of you jocks, and convince you to follow your dreams.

Thanks again for all the input. I really appreciate the thought that you guys put into your responses.

-b


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## Caliper (Mar 12, 2007)

This is fantastic news Ben!! I hope to keep up with your progress. I'm finishing a 10 week continuing studies furniture course in mid-April and it has been an experience. Some aspects have been great others not. However, the whole process of working like crazy to finish a project born out the creative process (rather than a magazine plan or a we-need-this-for-the-home type thing) has been great. I raise my glass to you. Cheers!


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## Taigert (Nov 20, 2007)

Ben, I spent most of my life doing sheetmetal to pay the bils and hated it. I wanted tu work with wood before going into sheet metal, but there were no woodworking jubs open at the time. Woodworking became my hobby, and like Roman stated my whole life revolved around woodworking I have always tried to absorb as much knowledge as I could get ahold of. A couple of years ago I was diagnosed with cancer and realized life is to short to spend it doing what does not bring joy to your life.
So I started school at Seattle Central Community College, Wood Construction Center. They offer three programs with wood. The one I am taking is Cabinetmaking and Fine Woodwork. The also have a wooden boat building program as well as Carpentry. The program I am in is two years long and I just started my second quarter.
I am finding out how little I really know, these guys really get into detail. The main focus for me is how to go from hobby to pro. I just can't say enough about how good I feel about my choice to go to school and the school I selected.
Check out there web site!
I'm glad to see you choose to go to school up in Maine, you won't regret it
Ed


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## Tangle (Jul 21, 2007)

Ben,
I saw this thread again and a thought occurred to me. Have you considered taking an art class? I constantly use what I was taught by a very fine art teacher. Good composition is applicable in all the arts but especially this one. It can be the difference between just a box and a great box. You might be able to get in a 6 weeks course this summer before you go to wood working school. It's just a thought I had. We wish you the best of luck at the school.


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## FlWoodRat (Sep 12, 2007)

Ben, 
I wish you success. If you would like some insight provided by a highly skilled craftsman (not me), visit this website http://www.plamann.com/. Perhaps the most significant point Mr. Plamann makes is that one only needs to learn how to THINK, then DO, having FAITH that all will work out.
He also does some fantastic work. 
Bruce


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