# Techniques & Methods



## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

*Scary Sharp Method*

so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.

Since I am the weekend warrior at this point, and I do not need to resharpen my tools THAT often, nor THAT much, I figure that I can do without any expensive powertools (there are several of those on the market) to sharpen blades and I dont really have the space to store those either way. This still leaves me with several other options.

I figured I'd start with the Scary sharp method as it is the cheapest to get into, and in the future, if I end up collecting waterstones one at a time, maybe I'll go that route, but from my present (very good) experience with the scary sharp method- I may just stick with it, as the abrasive doesn't really get worn off as quickly as I thought it would making this a very long lasting, and very cost effective method for me to use.

To all who don't know what the Scary Sharp method is: The idea is to stick sand papers of different grits on a piece of glass that is true and flat and run your blades over it, moving from lower grits that form the bevel, to finer grits that remove the scratches from the lower grits, to the finest grits that polish the beveled blade to a razor sharp mirror finish. This method really merely uses sand paper which is readily available almost anywhere (finest grits are available at either automotive parts stores, or woodcraft stores, or online)

What I picked up in a recent post on Fine Woodworking really helped me a lot in making this procedure easier to run, and much faster to render. the idea was to have only 1 sheet of sand paper glued to the glass, and to have the finer grits just placed on top of that glued sandpaper, resulting in the abrasive from the glued sandpaper preventing the other sand papers from moving about because of it's friction as shown in this picture:









This makes it easier as you do not need to glue every sand paper directly to the glass, and have different plates of glass for each sand paper, or having to remove and reattach sand papers to the glass plate. you simply have 1 sheet stuck to the glass, and the rest are easily put on when needed, and put away when not.









What I have done is stuck a whole sheet of 100grit paper to the glass plate and I use that to roughly set the bevel on the blade. Every few strokes I flip the blade, and lap the back of it to make it flat and remove the burr that is formed at the edge of the blade. Once I have a uniformed scratched bevel, I put a narrow piece of 230grit paper on top of the 100grit, and the abrasive keeps it from moving as I use that to remove the scratches off of the bevel that were made from the 100grit paper. Once again, every few strokes, I flip the blade, and lap the back to clean it, and remove the burr at it's edge. Once the bevel is uniformly smoother, I repeat the same process with a 400grit paper, after that I take it to a 600grit paper. at that point the bevel is faitly smooth and clean, but not mirror shine YET.

Next I use 1000grit paper (got it from Woodcraft as noone else carries these finer grits … not even Rockler to my surprise!) I spray a few drops of WD40 on the edge of the 1000grit paper and let the bevel run over that (but not the honing guide itself!). Again - flip blade, and lap the back. and move to the last 2000grit. At this point the blade still is lightly oiled, just enough to lubricate it, but not too much as to mess up the work area. I run the last few (20) strokes on the 2000grit paper, flip the blade, lap the back, and clean the blade with a cloth.

At this point the bevel edge is razor sharp - slices through hair, and as a mirror shine.

If you wanted- you could go with higher grit abrasives (sand paper, water stones, etc.) but for me, for the time being - this is more then enough: 

















This procedure is only necessary to go through once to set the bevel on the blades, but after it is set and done, and you lose the edge on that blade, you can run a quicker procedure with only running through the 2000 grit paper which takes *a few seconds*. and if needed use a lower grit to clean anything that cannot be cleared with the highest grit.

*EDITED:*
*D I S C L A I M E R :*
Good points have been raised as comments, and I'm glad people took the time to respond to this blog. Some suggested the use of different materials such as granite for the backing, and baby oil for the displacement of metal dust. some suggested higher quality abrasives, and these are all good points and should be considered if you are researching this subject. other good resources for sharpening and honing have been mentioned in the comments, and also some good articles are available at Fine Woodworking, and Popular Woodworking.

What I have been writing here is about my own experience using materials, and objects that I had at hand and readily available at home. This procedure as mentioned above has proved to provide me with results that are far better then I had expected and I wanted to share that with anyone that might benefit from that. This procedure is extremely fast for me to go through when needed, and requires minimal preparation and storage space - all of which suit me very well. If this technique worked so well for me - it might work that well for you too (and then again … maybe it won't… ) )


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


Great write up. One suggestion is that once you get the back to 2000 grit, you should only use the 2000 grit paper.

Do you leave the paper free or attempt to secure it to the glass with water or another method?


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


WayneC - I will definitely go that route next time I need to clean my edge… thinking about it - going anything lower will just remove more material from the blade unnecessarily!

Thanx!

the 100grit paper is stuck to the glass on 4 corners using double sided tape (carpet tape).

I've actually read on another article in fine woodworking where they suggest not running your honing guide over the abrasive paper AT ALL. I think it'll preserve the guide better, but the strokes will have to be shorter which will make the job more tedious… does anyone have any takes on this one?


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


I've just run the guide on paper. Also, I've use a Granite surface plate and wet dry sandpaper instead of glass. Basically, you use a spray bottle to wet the stone and the paper will stick. I just run the guide over the abrasive. I also have the cambered roller for the LV guide. Allows me to put a slight camber on plane blades.

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=4864

I have a Worksharp and that is my favorite method of flattening the back and setting angles on the blades. I use water stones for final honing.


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## daveintexas (Oct 15, 2007)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


Good informtion. I am like wayne, I got a piece of granite for free, most granite places have some cut offs that they disgard. I like it because its heavy. I use 3m spray adhesive to hold my paper to the granite, and the granite is just the right size to hold 4, quarter sheets of paper.
And I use water on the paper, may have to try the oil method tho.
Thanks for posting.


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## naperville (Jan 28, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


After many hours of using the scary sharp method, I agree it produces a wonderful cutting edge. I have since moved onto the water stones abd have not regretted it as they produce a fine polished edge just a little quicker. Two recomendations I have, one; stop using the glass. Buy the "salt & pepper" granite tiles from Menards home center. They are 12" x 12" x 3/8" and perfectly flat. Oh yea, when on sale they are less than 2 bucks. Recomendation two, Don't place your finer grits on top of the course grit. It will telegraph its texture through to the finer grits. Don't believe me? Throw a hand full of gravel onto the bed and the put on the fine linnen sheets and try to get a good night's sleep. Instead, buy a few of the "cheap, cheap, cheap" granite squares and spray mount the grits onto each one.
Buy the way, granite is more durable "read: less breakable" than glass. Also, glass that is less than 3/8" thick is really not that flat… FYI

Tom


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


Thanx for the comments y'all - I'll pick up a granite slab whenever I come about one, but in the mean time I just use glass - cause I just had it to begin with… I'm pretty sure there are some granite shops around, so if I'll catch one in the corner of my eye, I'll stop by and grab a couple - even if just to prevent the chance of a glass breakage…

*Tom*: I'm sure the courses grit transfer in some way through the finer grits, but in my experience, and for my use, it produces good enough (actually - very good) results, and is super fast, but I guess if I'll have several smaller Granite slabs I could just have one grit on each, and just swap between slabs… with the glass I was just trying to avoid having a large surface of grits…. easier to focus on a smaller size glass.

*daveintexas*: The only reason I'm using oil is because I dont really like the idea of water & metal… call me anal, but thats just me. I actually may try swapping that with mineral spirits which might be less messy… we'll see, for now all I've got is this WD40 which IS a (water) displacer… so seems to work very well displacing the mess away from the edge of the blade.


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## Texasgaloot (Apr 8, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


Hey Y'all-

I too have been messing about with this method for more years than I care to admit, although I'm not above learning something new. Great write-up! FWIW, I've heard of guys even using the tops of their tablesaws in a pinch. The only pause I have about putting a sheet of sandpaper on top of another sheet is that some papers tend to curl a bit in higher humidity conditions. The curl (in my experience) often results in either cut sandpapers or rounded chisel edges. (I'm on a no-bad-words campaign now that my 11 year old is starting to show an interest in the shop.) Just food for thought.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


*Texasgaloot:* that is true, the sheet of sandpaper on top does tend to curl (I think you can see that in the photos I posted) but from my experience with it so far is hasn't torn up, nor did it rounded the edge of the blades… but thats a good point to think about.

I guess different experiences will dictate different methods. so far this one works well for me.


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## sIKE (Feb 14, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


I recommend instead of using WD40 and its ilk, use baby oil instead it is cheap, can be bought in bulk, and can be sprayed. Remember all you are looking for is a light weight mineral oil to float the metal bit away to increase the life of the abrasive. I use granite tiles to grind and hone my edges. I also use the high grade 3M Micro-finishing abrasives. Brent Beach as the most awesome write up on the scary sharp method, along with shop made jigs and empirical proof that using the Micro-finishing abrasives gives you the best/sharpest edges you can get. His web site is here.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


RE: using tablesaw tops. People also use jointer beds for sharpening….


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


*sIKE*: Good Reading Material! Thanx.

only problem with using the Tablesaw/powertool top is that you're occupying that space, and it's easier to move blocks of glass/granite around, and not so much take that sand paper off of your table saw and replace it with another… haha.. kinda messy


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## Grumpy (Nov 9, 2007)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


Great blog Purplev. I use the same technique. Have you tried a diamond stone?, they are dead flat & cut very well & probably quicker than the emery paper.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


Grumpy: I was looking at the DMT diamond stones, and maybe I'll get them one at a time… but I heard mixed opinions about them from people having different experiences with those stones. from what I read, they are great for truing stones, and for setting up scrapers, but not so great for chisels and planes… I take it you have a different opinion on the matter - I'd love to hear more. I like the fact that they do not lose their form, but how long do they last? and are there any limitations/cons to them when comparing to waterstones? I'm still not sure which route I'll take in the future, but in the mean time, the cheapy sand paper does great service for me.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


You also may want to look at the worksharp. It is another option that is close in cost to a set of water stones or diamond stones.


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## Grumpy (Nov 9, 2007)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


Purplev, I have only been using the diamond stone a short time so can't comment on the life, I think GaryK uses them, he might have a better idea.
I have used the diamond plate for chisels & plane blades, also wet stones & as you do the emery paper on glass. After a few more shardenings on the diamond stone I might have a better idea but to date I am impressed with the result. Unfortunately they are a bit expensive.


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## DavidBethune (Feb 9, 2009)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


Well I have the Worksharp, and I have a waterstone, I've built a system similar to the Tormek.. so I'm wondering? Has anyone tried to Automate the Scary-Sharp system? If so how?
I am now in the final stages of my design of such a system.
I'll be posting it soon.


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## MattOD (Feb 14, 2011)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


Um! If not skilled yourself and you want to ensure you obtain the best results, I would seek out a Doctor Blade. They are professional who sharpen and ensure everything is within the set tolerance for your application.


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## rjoakwood (Jun 23, 2011)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


I'd like to try your scary sharp method one day - I am on Work Sharp at the moment.


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## paulsalisbury (Apr 1, 2011)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


I enjoy these blogs! Actually, I am envious of the skill of the wood worker. To be able to establish a vision and get about making something for your home project is something I one day look forward to achieving with practice and more practice.


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## BarneyTomB (Jul 5, 2011)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


How about using those 18" X 18" glazed ceramic tiles as a base? I have about half a box left over from a bathroom repair job. I was also told from the guy that use to sharpen my blades for me that I should use lamp oil instead of kerosine as a lubricant.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


BarneyTomB - the rule of thumb is to use a deadflat and hard surface so maintain full and even contact between the abrasive and the edge being sharpened. you could try the ceramic tile, but any irregularities on it's surface will leave you unimpressed and with what may seem like a dull blade. I would probably try it if I had any laying around worse case - you can always end up using something else if this doesnt work.


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## woodzy (Jan 24, 2011)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


I like this method too. The cost was the initail factor in my decision making but my edges are coming out sharper than ever before. 
I use granite. i have 4 pieces of 4×8 3/4"thick. 
I would like to find a better abbrasive paper to use, what brand do you use?
I use the 3m wet/dry automotive stuff, it is actually very good, I feel like i'm wareing it out quickly.

Maybe a problem with my technique. I have to stary using a lubricant. Why i don't i do not know.

The 3M abrasives come in grits from 320 grit to 8000. maybe even

thanks for the great disscusion


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## tom427cid (Aug 21, 2011)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


Hi all,
Like anybody else I am sometimes lazy-first starting out in my woodworking journey I used some pretty crude methods to sharpen my tools. Finally graduated to a medium india then started with the hard arkansas.Great edge but it does take some time to achieve. A friend gave me a diamond stone(?)-steel with diamond particles. That proved to be a little better than the india.Then I tried wet/dry paper. many grit sizes and much quicker. While evolving this process I researched a grinding wheel to shape the edge.It is similar to the white wheels now being marketed.BTW the only thing this wheel is used for is edge tools.
So now the process that I use is a large diamond stone clamped to the edge of the bench(permanently) and varying grits of wet/dry. They generally are 400,600,1000,1500,and 2000. When I resharpen mostly start with 600 or 1000 and go to 2000.Interesting thing about the paper as it is used it takes on the characteristis of a finer grit. If I have a nick I will start with the diamond stone(I think its 325 grit) and then move to the paper.I have used mineral spirits for my lubricant since forever. I keep it in a Lighter fluid container-easy to dispence. To use the paper I squirt a little on the diamond stone and have at it.Wipe the stone add little fluid and the next grit,etc.
Just to add, to grind the edge I have a couple of pieces of maple with carriage bolts(1/4×20) and wing nuts that I clamp on the blade as a guide,to achieve a hollow ground profile the rest of the operations I do free handed.It's quick,tools are sharp-sharp enough to carve one coat of laquer-and its(for me)easy
Thought I would share,hope this helps.
tom


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


woodzy - I am not sure what brand of paper I use, whatever was at the store I guess (I picked up mine at woodcraft store). but I definitely use water as lubricant and never used those dry.

I have since switched to using a grinder to shape up the bevel and create a hollow grind and then freehand polish those using the higher grit sand papers (1000,1500,2500,12000). OR I use diamond stones to shape up the backs, or things that won't work well on a grinder to form the bevel/flat as they work much better - again used with water as lubricant/dust displacement.


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## woodzy (Jan 24, 2011)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


Like i said i'm not sure why i don't do this already. 
Thanks for the reminder.

I may be putting myself outther for critisism/ or a good laugh but should i use a lubricant while using diamond stones?


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


nah, not a laughing matter. I probably wouldn't know any better if I hadn't researched on it either and YES you should use lubricant with diamond stone. the diamond stone cuts fast and produces a lot or waste materials that will clog it if not lubricated (same for any other abrasive material for that matter, and thats why I use wet-dry sand paper with water).


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## woodzy (Jan 24, 2011)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice, i really appreciate it.


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## Cajunrotor (Jan 11, 2012)

PurpLev said:


> *Scary Sharp Method*
> 
> so just like every other woodworker at one point (what's up with the other every other woodworkers is beyond me…) I was researching and learning about ways to sharpen my chisels, planes, and other blade tools in the shop.
> 
> ...


One of the MANY things I love about this site is its invaluable archive of wisdom such as contained in this series.

I just purchased the Veritas MKII yesterday and was looking for different approaches to its use and VOILA!, I discovered this great thread on the Scary Sharp method. This is just great information and I appreciate everyone taking their time to add to the knowledge base, and especially to PurpLev for the great original post and photos.

Much appreciated by this sharpening neophyte!


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

*Fixing Messed-up Blind Dovetails*

As I mentioned in my recent workbench blog, I had used inverted dovetail joinery to connect the skirt of the benchtop to the endcap. just like Arabian Nights, there are 1001 stories why joinery can get screwed up- mine were rushing + miscalculating + lack of experience + other. All of these matter not, and the end result is a misaligned, crooked, awfully looking, and unacceptable dovetail fit:









you can plainly see the tearout and large gaps between the mating parts, and the misalignment on the bottom tail and it's socket.

Obviously the 'proper' way to do things is to keep on practicing to finesse and perfect your joinery. BUT, learning to fix and clean mistakes is also a skill worth having for those times when things just 'seem' to happen.

This is a workbench, and the dovetail does it job - just doesn't look too nice. I could have left it as is, and it wouldn't make any functional difference, BUT. I preferred to clean this up, and accomplish 2 things:

1. have a nicer looking bench and dovetail 
2. learn a new skill, and see if my theory would prove itself to be useful.

my idea seemed to have been fruitful!

Since the gaps are in endgrain, I figured it would be easy to blend cutoff pieces since endgrain does not have grain patterns that would be broken by a patch. what I did was slice cut off pieces of same material into small wedges, coat them with glue, and pound them into the visible gaps:









(in this photo it's actually the 2nd filling of the remaining gaps after the initial filling of larger gaps)

once dried, I pared the excess material off, and planed/trimmed the endgrain flush with the tails:









Some of the fillers can still be seen and could be fixed a bit more/better, while other fillers are completely invisible. after a little more planing and scraping this looks even better, and after a coat of finish this one is good enough for the workbench - maybe in other situations I'd push for a tighter look, but for this purpose I am very satisfied with the result - hell of a lot better then the starting point.

Hope this can be of help,
Peace.


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## gfixler (Feb 21, 2009)

PurpLev said:


> *Fixing Messed-up Blind Dovetails*
> 
> As I mentioned in my recent workbench blog, I had used inverted dovetail joinery to connect the skirt of the benchtop to the endcap. just like Arabian Nights, there are 1001 stories why joinery can get screwed up- mine were rushing + miscalculating + lack of experience + other. All of these matter not, and the end result is a misaligned, crooked, awfully looking, and unacceptable dovetail fit:
> 
> ...


Why not just smoosh some walnut-colored wood filler in there? You could even squeeze some Titebond III in there. It dries a pretty dark brown, and would blend the two surfaces together with no gaps. You could even coarse-grit sand some walnut into the glue first, mix it into a slurry, and moosh that in there. That would help keep it from being a gummy glue filling, and it would probably really disappear, especially after planing or sanding (gasp! do you allow sanding anymore with your plane-lust? 

It does look a lot better, but I'd love to see your pretty dovetail work get all perfect suddenly, and I think something like the above would do it.


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## himcules (Feb 28, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *Fixing Messed-up Blind Dovetails*
> 
> As I mentioned in my recent workbench blog, I had used inverted dovetail joinery to connect the skirt of the benchtop to the endcap. just like Arabian Nights, there are 1001 stories why joinery can get screwed up- mine were rushing + miscalculating + lack of experience + other. All of these matter not, and the end result is a misaligned, crooked, awfully looking, and unacceptable dovetail fit:
> 
> ...


you could also make the saw dust/glue wood filler mix so its the same exact color?

either way, very nice fix. for a work bench, no one will notice except for you…


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## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

PurpLev said:


> *Fixing Messed-up Blind Dovetails*
> 
> As I mentioned in my recent workbench blog, I had used inverted dovetail joinery to connect the skirt of the benchtop to the endcap. just like Arabian Nights, there are 1001 stories why joinery can get screwed up- mine were rushing + miscalculating + lack of experience + other. All of these matter not, and the end result is a misaligned, crooked, awfully looking, and unacceptable dovetail fit:
> 
> ...


Nice recovery, Sharon. This is a nice technique to dress up the gaps on the dovetails. For those of us who are struggling to become proficient at hand cutting dovetails this is a nice technique to learn.


----------



## Cato (May 1, 2009)

PurpLev said:


> *Fixing Messed-up Blind Dovetails*
> 
> As I mentioned in my recent workbench blog, I had used inverted dovetail joinery to connect the skirt of the benchtop to the endcap. just like Arabian Nights, there are 1001 stories why joinery can get screwed up- mine were rushing + miscalculating + lack of experience + other. All of these matter not, and the end result is a misaligned, crooked, awfully looking, and unacceptable dovetail fit:
> 
> ...


Hey Purp, though I have never cut a dovetail of any kind, we all know why you had to fix and dress it up even though it is a workbench and will be used as such. Because we become a bit obsessive about the finish look of a project no matter our skill level.

I think its looking real good and what you are teaching yourself in the project is obviously enhancing your skills!!


----------



## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *Fixing Messed-up Blind Dovetails*
> 
> As I mentioned in my recent workbench blog, I had used inverted dovetail joinery to connect the skirt of the benchtop to the endcap. just like Arabian Nights, there are 1001 stories why joinery can get screwed up- mine were rushing + miscalculating + lack of experience + other. All of these matter not, and the end result is a misaligned, crooked, awfully looking, and unacceptable dovetail fit:
> 
> ...


Thanks guys,

*Gary, himcules* - long grain and end grain have very distinctly different appearances and features. I believe that wood filler, or glue+sawdust (aka homemade wood filler) works well to hide gaps/craps between laminations of long grain, or in long grain where there are no eye catching grain patterns that can be visually broken. for long grain where there are grain patterns - I'd patch the mistake with another thin piece of long grain and try to match the grain-patterns - still won't use wood filler. in my case I think wood filler would be very visible and will take away from the elegance of the joint, and since the fix I used was easily accomplished and completely invisible, I think it was a more fitting solution for this particular case. also there is no goo to mess with, and nothing spills.

*Scott* - you hit it with a nail. I think we need to get better at things so that we won't have to fix them - but fixing is also a good skill to have on those occasions where you just have to fix something and fix it good.

*Cato* - that is correct. we just want everything to be the best they can be. the more we push ourselves, the better we become.


----------



## sIKE (Feb 14, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *Fixing Messed-up Blind Dovetails*
> 
> As I mentioned in my recent workbench blog, I had used inverted dovetail joinery to connect the skirt of the benchtop to the endcap. just like Arabian Nights, there are 1001 stories why joinery can get screwed up- mine were rushing + miscalculating + lack of experience + other. All of these matter not, and the end result is a misaligned, crooked, awfully looking, and unacceptable dovetail fit:
> 
> ...


Sharon,

Very vice recovery! I have used the same technique before, it worked very well for me also.

Also glue will fill a gap in but it has no structure to it and would eventually fail. As for the glue and saw dust mixture, not a big fan. I had to use this technique on my last project and the color of the mix always ended up lighter than my wood. Glue's short open time makes it real hard to get a matching color quickly (especially in 105 degree temp like I see down here in Austin)


----------



## ratchet (Jan 12, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *Fixing Messed-up Blind Dovetails*
> 
> As I mentioned in my recent workbench blog, I had used inverted dovetail joinery to connect the skirt of the benchtop to the endcap. just like Arabian Nights, there are 1001 stories why joinery can get screwed up- mine were rushing + miscalculating + lack of experience + other. All of these matter not, and the end result is a misaligned, crooked, awfully looking, and unacceptable dovetail fit:
> 
> ...


Sharon;
Very nice solution! Thanks for sharing.


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## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *Fixing Messed-up Blind Dovetails*
> 
> As I mentioned in my recent workbench blog, I had used inverted dovetail joinery to connect the skirt of the benchtop to the endcap. just like Arabian Nights, there are 1001 stories why joinery can get screwed up- mine were rushing + miscalculating + lack of experience + other. All of these matter not, and the end result is a misaligned, crooked, awfully looking, and unacceptable dovetail fit:
> 
> ...


Sharon,

When I was learning to hand cut dovetails, I mentioned that I was having the same trouble, to an antique collector friend. He laughed and took me to see his collection of expensive blanket chests. Practically everyone of the chests had a similar fix to what you did. Seems the "old masters" didn't worry too much if the fit wasn't perfect. I saw little shims at the bottom and sides of the tails and pins. You had to look close, but they were there.

I'd say you did just the right thing.

Lew


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

PurpLev said:


> *Fixing Messed-up Blind Dovetails*
> 
> As I mentioned in my recent workbench blog, I had used inverted dovetail joinery to connect the skirt of the benchtop to the endcap. just like Arabian Nights, there are 1001 stories why joinery can get screwed up- mine were rushing + miscalculating + lack of experience + other. All of these matter not, and the end result is a misaligned, crooked, awfully looking, and unacceptable dovetail fit:
> 
> ...


Great solution and it's starting to come together. (Pun intended)


----------



## blackcherry (Dec 7, 2007)

PurpLev said:


> *Fixing Messed-up Blind Dovetails*
> 
> As I mentioned in my recent workbench blog, I had used inverted dovetail joinery to connect the skirt of the benchtop to the endcap. just like Arabian Nights, there are 1001 stories why joinery can get screwed up- mine were rushing + miscalculating + lack of experience + other. All of these matter not, and the end result is a misaligned, crooked, awfully looking, and unacceptable dovetail fit:
> 
> ...


I like what I'm see here, right before my eye's. The making of self-taught craftsman….Blkcherry


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## abie (Jan 28, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *Fixing Messed-up Blind Dovetails*
> 
> As I mentioned in my recent workbench blog, I had used inverted dovetail joinery to connect the skirt of the benchtop to the endcap. just like Arabian Nights, there are 1001 stories why joinery can get screwed up- mine were rushing + miscalculating + lack of experience + other. All of these matter not, and the end result is a misaligned, crooked, awfully looking, and unacceptable dovetail fit:
> 
> ...


Ah.. You have learned the difference between a woodworker and a craftsman.
This is a lesson I've learned the hard way but it is indeed valuable..
No need to be apologetic.
BT


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *Fixing Messed-up Blind Dovetails*
> 
> As I mentioned in my recent workbench blog, I had used inverted dovetail joinery to connect the skirt of the benchtop to the endcap. just like Arabian Nights, there are 1001 stories why joinery can get screwed up- mine were rushing + miscalculating + lack of experience + other. All of these matter not, and the end result is a misaligned, crooked, awfully looking, and unacceptable dovetail fit:
> 
> ...


Sharon I agree with your dovetail repair the best repair for wood is wood. Not fillers or epoxy when the repair is to have a finish.


----------



## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *Fixing Messed-up Blind Dovetails*
> 
> As I mentioned in my recent workbench blog, I had used inverted dovetail joinery to connect the skirt of the benchtop to the endcap. just like Arabian Nights, there are 1001 stories why joinery can get screwed up- mine were rushing + miscalculating + lack of experience + other. All of these matter not, and the end result is a misaligned, crooked, awfully looking, and unacceptable dovetail fit:
> 
> ...


Thanks everyone for the feedback. I am not apologetic though, I am very pleased with the results of the repair, and with the results of my idea which apparently (and not surprisingly) is not original. like I mentioned - I think knowing how to fix stuff is an important skill, but I also strongly believe that we should aspire to do work that will not require fixing.

and I agree. the best repair for wood is wood, and it's not hard to do.


----------



## DaveTool (Jan 21, 2010)

PurpLev said:


> *Fixing Messed-up Blind Dovetails*
> 
> As I mentioned in my recent workbench blog, I had used inverted dovetail joinery to connect the skirt of the benchtop to the endcap. just like Arabian Nights, there are 1001 stories why joinery can get screwed up- mine were rushing + miscalculating + lack of experience + other. All of these matter not, and the end result is a misaligned, crooked, awfully looking, and unacceptable dovetail fit:
> 
> ...


Hey! I like the table! Yes it is not perfect, but why do we need to be perfect! This table I know is a work bench, but as I have said earlier, I would oil and color the table for use in my home. You have completed a nice piece that your average non DIY would not notice the imperfections unless you pointed this out to them.

Your methodology and self criticism is probably why you will continue to learn and one day produce something that you are very proud of.


----------



## BrianLuntz (Feb 4, 2011)

PurpLev said:


> *Fixing Messed-up Blind Dovetails*
> 
> As I mentioned in my recent workbench blog, I had used inverted dovetail joinery to connect the skirt of the benchtop to the endcap. just like Arabian Nights, there are 1001 stories why joinery can get screwed up- mine were rushing + miscalculating + lack of experience + other. All of these matter not, and the end result is a misaligned, crooked, awfully looking, and unacceptable dovetail fit:
> 
> ...


I agree though a similar color sawdust and wood glue filler would have done the job.


----------



## JohnChristmas (Mar 4, 2011)

PurpLev said:


> *Fixing Messed-up Blind Dovetails*
> 
> As I mentioned in my recent workbench blog, I had used inverted dovetail joinery to connect the skirt of the benchtop to the endcap. just like Arabian Nights, there are 1001 stories why joinery can get screwed up- mine were rushing + miscalculating + lack of experience + other. All of these matter not, and the end result is a misaligned, crooked, awfully looking, and unacceptable dovetail fit:
> 
> ...


My experience with hand cut dovetails is often disappointing, but by looking at your pictures and how you TLC a rough one to a polished finished just gives me encouragement to keep on practicing - so thank you.


----------



## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

*Gradually dividing drawers in a cabinet*

for all those that missed it, or those that didn't know about the article. here's a link to Popular woodworking published article where George R. Walker shows a very simple and effective technique to design graduated drawers arrangement:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/graduated_drawers_woodworking_design/

Peace


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

PurpLev said:


> *Gradually dividing drawers in a cabinet*
> 
> for all those that missed it, or those that didn't know about the article. here's a link to Popular woodworking published article where George R. Walker shows a very simple and effective technique to design graduated drawers arrangement:
> 
> ...


thank´s for the tip it was great to read how to do it

Dennis


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## KentS (May 27, 2009)

PurpLev said:


> *Gradually dividing drawers in a cabinet*
> 
> for all those that missed it, or those that didn't know about the article. here's a link to Popular woodworking published article where George R. Walker shows a very simple and effective technique to design graduated drawers arrangement:
> 
> ...


Interesting information

Thanks


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *Gradually dividing drawers in a cabinet*
> 
> for all those that missed it, or those that didn't know about the article. here's a link to Popular woodworking published article where George R. Walker shows a very simple and effective technique to design graduated drawers arrangement:
> 
> ...


Thanks Sharon


----------



## Timbo (Aug 21, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *Gradually dividing drawers in a cabinet*
> 
> for all those that missed it, or those that didn't know about the article. here's a link to Popular woodworking published article where George R. Walker shows a very simple and effective technique to design graduated drawers arrangement:
> 
> ...


Thanks for this post Sharon, good to know the theory regarding drawer sizes and placement.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *Gradually dividing drawers in a cabinet*
> 
> for all those that missed it, or those that didn't know about the article. here's a link to Popular woodworking published article where George R. Walker shows a very simple and effective technique to design graduated drawers arrangement:
> 
> ...


you're welcome folks, I found that article very useful. this technique can be easily incorporated into sketchup during the design process. I should probably post some online tutorial on how to do that.


----------



## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

*The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*

I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….

Should you make them with a scriber? Or a pencil? A pencil line is easier to remove, but harder to line up to as you are relying on eye sight, Whereas a scribed line with a knife is a no brainer since you just rest your chisel into is, and it's a perfect positioning throughout the joint.

I personally think all these dovetails discussions (although informative and do come from genuine curiosity and interest) are overblown and too much focus is given to how the lines are kept/cleaned or whatever, Where in fact these are just the byproduct of the process of making a joint that is mechanically superior to all others.

At the end of the day, the structural stability and the overall look of your piece will tell everyone it's a quality handmade product. People don't generally open drawers to search for scribed lines on the joints  so don't think too deep into this.


Peace


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## schloemoe (May 10, 2010)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


Here Here!......................................Schloemoe


----------



## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


As I've mentioned before on this topic… Dovetails were originally used by early woodworkers because they were strong. They were generally made "quick and dirty" to be hidden with a molding of some sort if they were in a conspicuous place. Over the years they have morphed into an art form of sorts…. or, dare I say, an element of woodworking snobbery. We tend to judge a woodworker by his dovetails…. the more frequently he/she uses them, and the prettier they are, the better the woodoworker.


----------



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


Good point Sharon, I do think there are a certain percentage of folks that may look for dovetails but the scribe line I doubt it.


----------



## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


*schloemoe* - There There!..... 

*Charlie* - that is a a good point. in case work, the dovetails are hidden behind moldings on the top and bottom, and lets not forget the hidden half blind dovetails in mitered case work, another case where the joinery is actually done purely for the structural strength yet is still being hidden as to not be shown.

*Jim* - I agree, I do like seeing dovetails, but at the same time it seems like people are getting obsessed by the joinery as opposed to focusing on the big picture.


----------



## Woodcanuck (Mar 9, 2010)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


Good topic, I've kind of wondered about this myself. I am yet to build a project that incorporates handcut dovetails (though I hope that will change soon) and I've thought a bit about this.

On the one hand, I think we overanalyze these types of things because we're intrigued by it. Yes, I would look at the sides of a drawer and have a little smile if I saw scribe lines for the dovetails, knowing that the time and effort was put into the craftsmanship. My wife on the otherhand is unlikely to look at the sides of the drawers, and if she did, would probably wonder why they didn't sand out that ugly line.

Ultimately I have to ask myself 'who cares?' And I mean that in a literal sense, who's the customer? If I'm making a shop cabinet for myself and I want to have handcut dovetails, I might just leave the scribe line there as a pleasant reminder to the process involved. If I'm making something for a family member who will think the scribe line is ugly, I'll put the effort in to clean it up or minimize its appearance.

Contrast this with something of a different genre…like photography. If you are a casual photographer (vacation pics and birthdays/etc) are you going to critique pictures you get from someone for the lighting and composition? Will you even notice? It will probably boil down to 'does this picture please me?' I try to keep that in mind with anything I build…will it please the person who is receiving it?


----------



## CaptainSkully (Aug 28, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


I think the scribed lines cutting across the grain (literally) are a sign of craftsmanship and should be left. You don't get those when you use a routing jig. I will say that most non-woodworkers are disappointed when they pull out one of my drawers and see a lock joint instead of dovetails. This has caused me to almost redo the drawers with dovetails. Sigh…


----------



## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


An interesting (or … not !) analogy.

I have a couple of fairly nice road bicycles.

Invariably … when somebody is checking out my road bicycles … they press on/pinch one of its tires.

The cartoon balloon, over their heads, reads … something like "Ahhhh. THERE's the mark of a FINE bicycle: it has air in its tires."

Or … something like that 

I can certainly envision myself looking for, or at, the scribed line on a good DT joint, but-as others have mentioned-it can easily be added in, on a jig-routed joint, to give the appearance of a hand-cut DT.

Whaddyagonnado ?

*Sharon*: Where, where ??


----------



## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


''Ahhhh. THERE's the mark of a FINE bicycle: it has air in its tires.'' LOL, thanks for the chuckle!

*Neil* What? What?


----------



## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


3rd base.


----------



## SPalm (Oct 9, 2007)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


What if I machine cut my dovetails, and then add the scribe line later. Does that count?

Steve


----------



## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


*Charlie* who's on what?!?

*Steve* that would technically make your machine cut dovetails into handcut dovetails (or maybe those are hybrids?) - not sure your clients would like that much. besides- how would you then explain the extra expense on the dovetail jig?


----------



## jockmike2 (Oct 10, 2006)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


Japanese joinery is another question altogether, In Popular Woodworkings latest article about the famous joinery artisan Toshio Odate is amazing and one worth reading. Some of his joinery isn't just for looks, it well thought out function. I'm in the process of making my Uncle a 7' long 3" thick table top table. I've been obsessing on joinery to use solid enough to hold such great weight. Ok, why on earth such a big heavy table? His daughters idea. My Uncle built a log cabin on my great, great grandparents homestead and wants a huge table for the 28+ members of the family with a natural edge. It's walnut. 3' on one end 6' in the middle and 4' at the other end. going to be lots of fun. Anyway Odate has many joinery ideas for heavy and unusual wood. Great artisan and joinery maker and worth showing off.


----------



## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


Thats an interesting point *Mike*. however most japanese joinery is again - hidden and unseen. the beauty of japanese joinery is that the joint holds itself much like a dovetails does and does not rely on clamps/glue but it's own mechanical friction and each piece supporting the other.

have you read this book?:


----------



## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


*Steve* - You will probably get away with it. But, be careful not to move the piece across a state line. Then it becomes a federal matter 

Bubba: "What's ya in fer?" 
Steve: "Fake scribe line on a dovetail. How about you?" 
Bubba: "Murder"


----------



## jockmike2 (Oct 10, 2006)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


What I was thinking about Sharon was the guy, and I don't know if it was Odate that made those eagle claw joints for a banket chest, Remember seeing that? Beautiful work. Someone on site was able to duplicate it and did a superb job of it, my memory being what it is, I don't remember who that was either. I do agree with you though much is hidden. I have not read that book, but looks like one I should. The Japanese are famous for using heavy wood in building anything. Yet enough is exposed to reveal it's complexity.


----------



## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


Yeah *Mike*, I know what you mean, I love Japanese woodworking for both the simplicity of the pieces, and the complexity of the joinery, and it's robustness (joinery). the book I pointed out to mostly deals with Carpentry joinery, but some can be applied to fine woodworking. worth a read, if only for inspiration and seeing what else is out there.


----------



## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


the early woodworkers used the dovetailjoint and some of the other strong joints becourse
they needed the mecanicel function to bee strong becourse they knew the cuoldn´t rely
on the glue itself , they knew it wouldn´t hold on the long run
today we can trust the glue itself to hold things on the long run
and thats why we use so many different joint that don´t have the exstra mecanicel future
build in
this one of the reesen why woodworkers has fall in love with the dovetails and have brought
them infront to the light today and made them the quality mark of the trade
and bee so opsest by them

Dennis


----------



## jockmike2 (Oct 10, 2006)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


Sorry for getting off topic!!


----------



## BertFlores58 (May 26, 2010)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


Think of this … The users or customers doesn't care about dovetails as they don't know it. But we do because we know the strength and how difficult it is done manually. Sometimes, the woodworker emphasize too much on dovetails because they work for it where the hardship elevates himself on next level.. meaning.. if you had manage to make your own dovetail joint then you are a good one. However, the clients or users are sometimes annoyed of the exposed pin or tail ends of these joints. This is the reason a blind dovetail was made… exactly why tenon or a miter joint need not be visible.

THIS IS THE MODERN CHANGE.
Here our projects shows a lot of those joinery secrets to reveal their expertise. Spline miter joints are now in contrast colors, screw are plug in with decorative ebony that looks like it has been morticed, dovetails are additional line up with a nice contoured boarder… you can see them,, comments WOW.. that's WOODWORKER's VIEWPOINT. What about PUBLIC's VIEWPOINT?


> ?


?


----------



## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


*Mike* - no need to be sorry, your points were well within subject, and were very valid 

*Bert* - true, the better we get, the better our joinerys, milled parts and all. my point is - I am all for improving and getting better, but just as a reminder - don't over do it and lose focus on what's REALLY important, and that is the final project.


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## kolwdwrkr (Jul 27, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


I never really gave my opinion on this matter after I posted the question. It seems to me that a marking quage is more accurate then a pencil and square when laying the lines down. It follows the front of your stock and you can accurately mark all your parts with the same setting. Your tape measure and eye isn't going to be able to be as accurate in my opinion. More so, any small mistake with a square can throw you out as well. The "scratch" won't rub off or smear either, and is a nice place to start the point of your chisel, as it can rest in the groove. 
I had been leaving the "scratch" because I wanted to be traditional, and do the work the way it was done in the past. But it's come to my attention that not every manufacterer of those times were leaving the marks.

I tend to agree that it's really the makers choice, and that few and far between people will ever really think about the mark. A woodworker from a different forum noticed mine and said the piece was flawed. In his eyes it may have been, but in someone elses it may be great. You can't make everyone happy, so the best course is to make yourself happy with the work you produce, as well as the persons receiving the product.

As woodworkers we will make our own routes in life. Some will choose to refine the methods by hand and enjoy the work that way, whereas others will think that nobody will notice and find a faster method of work. That is why pocket screw joinery has become so popular. It is not uncommon today to see drawers fastened with pocket screws. The only thing that means is that the maker wanted the cheapest and quickest method, and didn't care how it effected his work. I tend to lean towards wanting to do the work and learn it because I love woodworking. It's not just something I do to pass time, and whatever I make doesn't matter. I am inspired by the people who have the same dedication to the craft as I do. The attention to detail and love of the work shows when it is done by a true craftsman. When you cut corners just to get the piece photographed and posted, then you care more about what other people think when they see it, you want the praise, and the end product is just another piece you don't know what to do with. But what you don't realize is that people don't show honesty when they see something. Your piece will recieve the "looks great" or "Nice work" but the viewer my see it as something more negative.

I wanted to end by saying that Thomas MacDonalds Secretary has the lines, and some oil. LOL. http://www.thomasjmacdonald.com/secretary.html His work is top knotch. So again, it's really about how you feel, and the steps you want to take on YOUR piece. I may start leaving the line on one small portion of the drawer, and make it my signature.


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## Timbo (Aug 21, 2008)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


I usually scribe my line but never worry about whether it gets sanded/scraped off or not. As I get older I see the wisdom in scribing the line…because I no longer see the pencil line!


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## Zepluros (Jan 20, 2013)

PurpLev said:


> *The Infamous Dovetails Scribed Line*
> 
> I keep seeing these posts pop up more often than not about the scribed line for dovetails, should you leave them on? should you scrap/sand them off? Some say it tells the joint was hand made, Others rightfully so say that the piece itself tells that it was hand made….
> 
> ...


No scribe lines! I won't have them.
Before I scribe I mark a pencil line 1/8" to one side of the scribe line. I layout the tails or pins with pencil on this line then using the scribe I mark within the boundaries of these pencil lines, just enough for a chisel to register the line. Then I lay out the rest of the lines and make the saw cuts, when it's time to chisel I register the piece with the cutting block using a 1/4" chisel to make everything square. Lot easier than sanding and planing. 
Voila, no scribe lines.


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