# How to: Floating Shelf



## BobGlenn

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Questions.
Want to build floating shelves with brackets hidden. (Shelves are for sale)
These shelfs would be mounted for display with items for sale on the shelf.

Now lets say the customer wanted just the shelf. So the shelf would be removed.
Then it would replaced with a new shelf time permitting.
(I know build shelves standing in the corner and say shelf display only. But you know women.

Maybe some of the shelves would be 8"-12" wide x maybe 2-3" thick x 18-24" long.

Would use a keyhole system, say with 3 keyholes into a 2×4 should provide enough support yet quick and removable for a quick sale?


> ?


????

Any better ideas


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## BassBully

Bob,

One expensive method I've seen for "permanently" hanging floating shelves is to weld 3/8" metal dowel rods perpendicular to a steel strip. The steel strip is then screwed into the wall and the floating shelf slides right onto the metal dowels with the dowels going into the recess of the shelf.

Since you're just hanging these shelves temporarily, maybe you could mimic the same thing using wooden dowels glued into one inch thick lumber. Drill 3/8" holes into the one inch thick wood and put the dowels into the holes with glue. Screw the 1" wood into your display case or whatever you're using. Then, all you have to do is slide the floating shelves on and off the pegs.


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## Karson

I saw a plan for making shelves out of hollow core doors.

You screw a board that fits between the two outside panels of the door into the studs of the wall. You then slide the door that has had one side ripped off. So if you wanted 12" shelves use a 24" door.

You then screw the ply into the top and bottom of the wood piece.

My son bought some shelves from Ikea and they were similar design.

The shelf just floats out into space with no visible support.


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## BassBully

Bob,

Come to think about it, you might not need to glue the dowels into the wood if you want to use different sized dowels for different sized shelves. The dowels would be removable.


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## BobGlenn

We are getting somewhere with the inputs.
Had a suggestion that Lee Valley (I believe) had some sort of cleat that you would router a recess in the backside of the shelf. Then I guess there would be a part that is bolted to the wall and the shelf would hook unto that.

Another idea floating round would be a dovetail in the backside of shelf, with a cleat mounted to the wall. Problem with that if you had a 14" shelf it would take 28" of space to mount it.

Cost factor is the main consideration as to keep the price of the shelf affordable for the customer.


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## DrSawdust

Woodsmith had a article about floating shelves. Basically if the shelf is 24" long, attach a 20" piece of angle iron to the wall into the 2×4s. Then the shelf was made with a small slit, just big enough to slide over the metal. Now, when you sell a shelf you can just slide it off and another one on as soon as you are ready.


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## Sawdust2

When you pull the shelf off at the sale don't you also need a wall fastener to be sold with it?

You're basically making a torsion box with one side recessed for what gets mounted to the wall.
I think Wood magazine had an article about using moulding to make a 3 sided box, routing a 1/4" groove near the top for a piece of glass, putting a small lamp inside for a display shelf.

I like the angle iron idea as it allows for thinner shelves.
Lee


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## jpw1995

How strong can you really make these floating shelves? A friend of mine would like to have some to display books, but I'm not sure that a floating shelf could handle the weight of a full load of books.


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## BobGlenn

JP, Other contributors
Been researching etc. lots of inputs.
Maybe this is not all my idea, but combinations of ideas….................

Here is a cost effective idea floating around in my head.

One could take a board say for example: Figures might not be right, doing this in my head

Step 1.) 
2 Board 15" long X 2" thick, These would act as support "PART OF THE WEIGHT" bearing surface would be on the 2" The rest of the bearing would be….. two wood dowells, 16" apart (centers) the dowells would protrude out ….say 10" Almost the width of the shelf. That would act as more support for the shelf. The reason for cutting two 15" boards, as they could be adjusted right and left to find centers on odd built houses.

Just lay a level on one when you go to mount the second on the wall.

Step 2.)
Build a shelf 34" Wide, X hollow inside 2 1/8 thick, to accept the 2" board mounted to the wall.

Step3.)
Make 2 boards for a LIGHT "FINGER PRESS FIT".......to go inside the hollow shelf…....
2×2 x 10 long drill hole thru the 10" (to accept 1/2" dowell) 
Insert these two inside the hollow shelf, that you made "FINGER PRESS FIT" right or left to match up to dowells that had been set on the wall.

This way with floating 2X2 FINGER PRESS FIT BOARDS, one adjust these to match the dowells on the wall, right & left, one could mass produce these and still be cost effective.

Sounds complicated but not…......time, and effort would be mimninal.

Strength not for sure how much, books?? 
But would think that it could hold them…..........

The proto type in my head says it would work…......

Shelfs beyond 32" would require more dowells, and more floating 2×2 
Would NOT make them more than 12" deep


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## Woodwayze

I have a display case on a wall, which is held by two part hangers.
The housing part goes on a wall-mounted batten.
The hook-section of the hanger is screwed to the rear of the cabinet. There is another batten behind the lower edge of the case to push it out from the wall of course. It has been there for 20 years plus, even surviving an earthquake.

If you are using shelves of a full 1.5" width, I think these might work, as long as the shelf was no more than 6-8" wide. Too much weight though, might pull the hangers out of the batten, or the batten from the wall.

Inside a case, I prefer library-hanging strip, which can be recessed into the sides of the casework. The small metal clips that engage in the strip are very strong for their size, and I have used them with solid mahogany shelves up to 5' 10" long, without central supports.

Here is a link to somthing similar, for your wall-shelf.

http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;jsessionid=RNBN2HQNUY01ACSTHZOSFFA?_dyncharset=UTF-8&fh_search=cabinet+hanging+brackets

This firm also supplies library strip.

HTH
John (UK)


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## Vanyo

Hi, I just registered here. I have a log home, and am planning on putting up some shelves made of 2 inch thick rough sawn pine, with bark still attached on one edge. The only requirement is they be strong enough to be fully loaded with textbooks. My plan is to make floating shelves using 1/2" by 10" lag bolts. These go for about $1.50 in the big chain hardware stores. I'll drill guide holes into studs and screw in the lag bolts to the a depth of about 3", then cut the heads off the bolts. Then the 2" thick planks will be edge drilled at the right spots and I'll slide them onto the headless bolts. The bolts are strong enough that I figure I can put one every other stud (i.e. every 32"). (I'll be testing out weight capacity first though)

To make it more interesting, I've decided that instead of just cutting off the heads after screwing the bolts in, I'll grind parallel flat spots on opposite sides of the shaft of the bolts right below the head, cut the heads off, and insert using a wrench on the ground flat spots. This will make removal easier if ever desired. I've already built a jig around a bench grinder that does a nice job of grinding the flat spots.

Anyone see any problems with this approach?


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## Vanyo

Here are some pics of the apparatus I used to grinding flat spots on my lag bolts for turning with a wrench, and the finished results (the finished lag bolts that is - shelves aren't up yet).

Bench grinder with wooden guide (sorry, this pic came out upside down):









Block of wood to hold bolt for grinding:









Grinding:









1/2" by 10" lag bolt, original and modified:









Close up of modification:









I could have done this a lot simpler with large hanger bolts, but only ones I could find online were smaller and much more expensive.


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## Vanyo

Well, after much ado about crafting my own hardware from lag bolts, I decided that though I loved the results, it was far too labor intensive, and I went with 10 inch by 1/2 inch hanger bolts, which cost about $2 each for a box of 100. I'm putting up shelves throughout the house, but still more than I need, but maybe I can get rid of rest on eBay.

Anyway, first shelf is up, pictured below, with hanger bolts for second shelf above. The shelf is more than strong enough to hold anything I'll put on it. I'm 6'2", and can hang my full body weight from two of the hanger bolts.









(Michter's Single Barrel Straight Rye, for the curious)


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## bob101

The floating shelf cleats from lee valley are great , i have used them in the past. u can either make the shelf in two halves and dado the two halves and glue them together or bore a hole in a completed shelf that if I remember correctlty has to be about an inch thck due to the size of the cleats, and they can hold a fairly large load.


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## Vanyo

I checked out the Lee Valley floating shelf hardware ( http://www.leevalley.com/us/hardware/page.aspx?p=51933 ), but I can't see any advantage over plain old hanger bolts. It's prettier, but you never see it. It's, at best, 3 times the cost of hanger bolts, and can't be nearly as strong.


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## Mojo1

not sure how to delete my post, sorry


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## bankside

Vanyo:

Your solution to the problem of combining strength with simplicity in a floating shelf is the most elegant I've seen. I'd love to replicate it, if only I could find hanger bolts of a similar size (1/2" or 3/8" x 10") here in the UK. I've looked everywhere I can think of. It seems impossible even to order these over the Internet for delivery in the UK.

If anyone out there has any ideas where I might be able to source large hanger bolts in, or for delivery to, the UK, I'd be very much obliged.

Thanks


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## chrisstef

ive made a bunch of floating shelves that can handle a fair amount of weight but they are all hollow in the middle. I use a 3/4" top for the shelf and some crown molding attached to the underside of the top. Finish it off flush with another piece of 3/4" on the bottom. Cut a board the length of the shelf and the width of the opening, attach to wall studs with carraige bolts, slide the shelf over it screw down from the top.


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## rance

Karson, that seems like a great approach. I also like Vanyo's idea but I think I'd just cut the head off and use a pipe wrench to install. Much less trouble.


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## diykath

I am looking at Vanyo's idea with hanger bolts, it's the best solution for my project, but can't find 1/2"x10" anywhere without buying a box of 100.
I only need 6. any ideas?
thanks


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## Vanyo

diykath, I paid $2.13 a piece for 100 on Amazon. I could sell a few at that price plus shipping (which I'm not sure how much it might be). I'll msg you with my email address.


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## LNC

I'm so happy to have found this thread! I've been looking everywhere for ideas on how to build a floating shelf, and just kept unearthing different variations of the build-a-box-with-an-open-back idea… The simplicity of Vanyo's idea is exactly what I've been looking for.

If you have trouble finding hanger bolts in the right size, try searching for threaded rod instead. I found the perfect thing on mcmaster.com. Partially threaded rod, 1/2" diameter, 10" long with flats in the middle so you can easily grip it with a wrench. Search for part number 90281A744. At $4.80 each, they're not an amazing deal. But, since you can order the exact number you need, it's a nice 3rd option besides ordering a box of 100 bolts or shelling out for the Lee Valley brackets.

I'd love to hear from anyone who has built these how they are holding up…

Thanks for the inspiration!!


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## thiel

I used these:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/10136135/

... with some 1" poplar. Gives me really nice shelves up to 48", holding books, with no detectable sag. Stylish cheap and easy!


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## diykath

We finally got around to hanging our floating shelf. It turned out great. It was a little tricky drilling the holes in the shelf to be exact and precise for the bolts attached to the studs, but we managed after a few adjustments and are so pleased with the result. We will definitely use the hanger bolt system again.


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## Vanyo

I'm glad to hear it worked out!

I actually created a jig for drilling the holes into the shelf, pictured below:










It consists of two 3 foot long, 1/2 inch steel rods. At the right of the pic is a block of wood with tight fitting holes that one end of each of the rods is inserted tightly into. At the left of the pic is a similar block, but the holes are just loose enough to let the block slide easily, and it has centered between the two holes a third hole in which is fitted a drill extension chuck. A large auger bit is inserted in that. Then last of all there are two more blocks with holes, one on each rod in the middle. These get clamped on each side of the shelf to be drilled (i.e. the shelf is clamped between them). The auger bit is painted to indicate desired drilling depth.

As for strength, here's a pic of my son (140 lbs) sitting on one of the shelves:










The shelves themselves are 2 inch thick rough sawn pine with bark still attached, a nice accent for a log home or wherever a rustic look is desired.


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## JayD

I really like Vanyos solution. I was going to use long lag bolts and just cut of the heads after screwing them into the wall. That said, I don't know if Hanger bolts are stronger?? Love the jig! Your Auger bit looks big relative to the bolts. Do the shelves slide off the wall easily and if so, do you attach them with a hidden screw?

Thanks! Jay


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## Vanyo

The threads on the hanger bolts provide plenty of friction so that there's no way the shelves will slide. It takes considerable effort to pull the shelf away from the wall when not loaded, and with weight on it, it locks tight.


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## JayD

Thanks Vanyo. Maybe I can get one up tomorrow before the game.


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## theaterbuff

I have been searching for a simple and effective floating shelf to use for my entertainment set up I am so happy i came across this thread it sounds like just the thing i have been looking for thank you


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## bobcat

Vanyo - Your solution is perfect for my project to hang 3"x6"x7' shelves made from rough reclaimed redwood Initially I was going to use shorter hanger bolts angled up but figured this would be way too hard to align especially if the wall is not perfectly flat.

Seems like you had just the right "bite" of the threaded bolt into the shelf

A few questions:

What size auger bit did you use for the 1/2" hanger bolts?

How did you align the bolts with the shelf holes? (perfect level on both shelf and bolts or mark drill holes on shelf by tapping shelf on bolts once bolts were in the wall?)

How did you screw the bolts into the wall (e.g. Jam nuts on the bolt?)

Thanks


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## Vanyo

Q: What size auger bit did you use for the 1/2" hanger bolts?

A: Not sure, but I believe it's 5/8".

Q: How did you align the bolts with the shelf holes? (perfect level on both shelf and bolts or mark drill holes on shelf by tapping shelf on bolts once bolts were in the wall?)

A: This may answer more than was asked, but:

First, I drew a level horizontal line on wall where I wanted shelf, then drew verticals crossing that where stud centers were. I find studs by using a strong magnet to find sheet rock nails, then push a thin drill bit in to find where the edges of the studs are. For 1/2" bolts holding so much weight, you want as close to dead center of the studs as possible. Stud finders, I find, aren't accurate enough.

Then, I used one of these gizmos to drill holes as close as perpendicular to the wall surface as possible (where aforementioned horizontal and vertical lines cross) :










I think the holes were probably 3/8", and as deep enough to not go out the other side of wall.

Then I screwed in the hanger bolts.

Then I put a long thin strip of wood resting on top of the bolts, against the wall, and marked their positions. I also marked any vertical differences … which shouldn't exist, but I'm not that good, so have to correct along the way.

Then I use that long thin strip of wood to mark the drill hole locations on the back edge of the shelf, and drill accordingly. If my drill holes in the back of the shelf are not perfectly perpendicular, or the hanger bolts in the wall are not perfectly perpendicular, I might get a (very) little flex in the bolts at their ends, but not at the wall, and this is where things have to match up. I have had to nudge a bolt here and there to get it into the hole in the shelf, but once in, all is good, just shove the shelf back to the wall. "tapping shelf on bolts once bolts were in the wall" wouldn't work if the bolts weren't close enough to perpendicular to wall (or more correctly, close enough to parallel, which wouldn't be any different, except for next point …). "tapping shelf on bolts once bolts were in the wall" would guarantee the shelf would go onto the ends of the bolts easily, but if they're not parallel, the shelf wouldn't go back to the wall. (I hope this is clear … a picture, or video, would be worth more than these words, I think).

Last of all, I've dealt with somewhat bowed walls. To get a tight fit of the back edge of the shelf to the wall, I just ran a pencil mark along the top of the shelf a fixed distance from the wall, then took the shelf down again and trimmed the back edge with a router along that pencil line (approximately, using a straight board as a guide, approximating the pencil line with a few straight segments). After adjusting the back edge of the shelf, it gets put back, and done.

Q: How did you screw the bolts into the wall (e.g. Jam nuts on the bolt?)

A: Exactly. Two nuts, the outer one jammed against the inner one, then a socket wrench turning the outer one. When in place, remove the outer, then the inner.


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## Vanyo

Just wanted to add a little clarification about this part:

"Then I put a long thin strip of wood resting on top of the bolts, against the wall, and marked their positions. I also marked any vertical differences … which shouldn't exist, but I'm not that good, so have to correct along the way.

Then I use that long thin strip of wood to mark the drill hole locations on the back edge of the shelf, and drill accordingly."

Here's how I do that in a little more detail:

First, you need a long straight edge. It need not be a straight edge, just a strip of wood, like a piece of flat trim, or a thin ripped slice off a 2 by 4. It need not even be very straight.

Say I have 5 hanger bolts screwed into studs. I rest the straight edge on top of them. If they're not exactly in a straight line, the straight edge will be resting on two (or more) of the bolts, but some will have a gap between the bolt and the straight edge.

Draw an *upwards facing arrow* on the straight edge. This is to get the orientation correct when transferring bolt locations to the back edge of the shelf.

Now, draw vertical lines on the straight edge above the center of each bolt. You might number these 1 to 5, left to right, for sake of sanity. Next, for the bolts that are a bit below the straight edge, make a horizontal mark crossing the vertical at a distance from the bottom edge of the straight edge equal to the gap between the bolt and the straight edge (you can eyeball this).

Now, transfer the marked straight edge to the back edge of the shelf (what will be flat against the wall), with the *arrow facing down* (toward the bottom edge of the shelf). Thus, as you're looking at the back edge of the shelf, where you'll be marking drill holes, the numbers 1 to 5 will going from right to left (and be upside down).

With the straight edge running along the center of the back edge of the shelf, mark vertical where each vertical is on the straight edge, then small temporary horizontals crossing these corresponding to the edge of the straight edge. Then, at each vertical, move the straight edge down a bit corresponding to the distance between the edge of the straight edge and the the horizontal mark on the straight edge that represents the gap we had between the bolt and the straight edge. Make a horizontal mark there. Where the vertical and horizontal marks cross is where the drill holes go.

A picture would probably do much better, but I don't have any handy. The point is, in a nutshell, that the holes on the back of the board have to start in locations exactly matching where the bolts meet the wall. If either the bolts or the holes drilled in the shelf are a tad crooked, you can still jam the shelf down onto them.

(I have it on my list to make a youtube video of this whole process, but the list is long)


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## JayD

These are excellent directions from Vanyo. I just installed 2 of my shelves in the garage yesterday. Since its the garage I was not looking for perfection. I got all the bolts within ~1/4 inch by measuring and eyeballing my drilling. That said, one bolt was way out of wack and took a decent amount of bending to align it.

Vanyos idea of using the trim board for transferring the bolt locations is something I wish I'd done. My bolts were just a tad out of line and require some bending (hard taps with a hammer to get them lined up. To deal with the need to align bolts to holes while installing I screwed the inner bolts in ~1/2" relative to the two outside bolts. I then placed the shelf on the two outside bolts first and aligned the inner bolts from there. When the inner bolts were longer than the outer ones the shelf would pivot on whatever bolt was the longest and not perfectly aligned…was tricky.

Given my imprecision I ended up having to pound on the shelves pretty hard with a rubber mallet to get them flush with the wall. That said, they aren't going anywhere!

I'm happy with them but the next will be done using the trim board to transfer final bolt locations…this should eliminate some of the variability caused by my drilling.

I used Zinc-Plated Steel Wood Screw Hanger Stud, 3/8"-16 Nut End, 10" (90207A656) from McMaster-Carr and 2×10s as shelves. The shelves went in above some windows where 2, 2×4's where side by side so I had plenty of wood. The windows are odd ball DIY'ers from the previous owners so I was not worried about distorting the rough-n frame of the windows. The first bolt I screwed in by hand, then I recalled my Milwaukee and was off to the races.


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## bobcat

Vanyo -

I do have one of the drill gizmos you pictured so I'll use that (didn't think of it for this project)

Since posting my question, I found hanger bolt drivers (see pict). May not be able to drive all the way in w/drill but can 1/4" socket wrench if it gets too tight.
------------------------------------------------









Easily install hanger bolts with your power drill and a handy, 1-3/4" long Hanger Bolt Driver:

Tighten 1/4" hex shank into drill chuck, thread in hanger bolt and drive it in - reverse drill to remove driver.
128-492 - Super Magnetic Bit Holder with 1/4" hex shank is 2-3/8" OAL.
Adjustable depth stop
-------------------------------------------------------

. Didn't see 1/2" but did find for 3/8" bolts which I'll likely use on this project

thanks for the excellent additional info…those little tips and tricks can really help


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## crampon

New member here - I registered to thank Vanyo for the excellent and very clear pictures and descriptions. I'm going to be installing floating shelves in our remodeled kitchen. We'll use salvaged old-growth beams, which should be a nice fit with our old (1913) fir floor.

We have lath and plaster walls with some bows/ripples, so even using a jig for the drill is not a guarantee that the hole in the wall will align perfectly with the hole in the shelf, but the discussion above was a good reminder that assuming the hole locations are precise, "pretty close" on the angles will probably work just fine.

Thanks again to everyone for the thoughtful discussion!


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