# Stanley No. 4 Plane - Type Identification. Type 13 (1925 - 1928)?



## palaswood (Aug 9, 2013)

So I just bought my first stanley hand planes (got a 2 for 1 essentially) off of ebay. I'm feeling pretty darn good about it. I bought it for the Stanley No.4 but it comes with a Stanley Handyman too (ok, party, bonus). Got em both for ~$40 including shipping. **Update: Don brought it to my attn that the left side of the No 4 has a huge chip cracked off. I didnt notice that when I bought it, but I'm gonna try to use it anyhow.










My question is this: I was doing my research using the RexMill Stanley bench plane type study (great resource), and zeroed in on the Type 13 model from years 1925-1928 due to the following:

Single patent date on plane bottom (APR-19-10)
Absence of raised knob ring on plane bottom (final model before they added that)
"Stanley SW Made in USA" embossed on the Blade


























HOWEVER, according to my research, the Lever Cap should have STANLEY embossed on it as well, but as you can see in the pictures, its free of any logo on the lever cap.










Is is possible that the lever cap is from a previous year, and I am correct in my typing this as the 1925-1928 model?
Or did they also use blank lever caps for this model?


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Lever cap would not be typical of a T 13. Happens all the time. Nice looking plane still.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

isn't the left side broke to?


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## palaswood (Aug 9, 2013)

Hey Don, I guess you're right. But I'm not collecting, i bought it for use.

Thanks for seeing that.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

did you know that when you bought it? User or collector, that decreases the value substantially. And depending how its broke, it will continue to break until its of no value except parts.


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## JustJoe (Oct 26, 2012)

I know we're supposed to be supportive of each other here on LJ. I should be saying "yea, cool, you got some new planes!" But I have to jump in here with Don but a bit edgier…

You got screwed. You wasted $40. If the plane was like that in the picture you should have run away. If the defect was hidden you should be yelling at the seller, leaving negative feedback, sending your big brother Vinnie to break a few legs.

The handyman is a plane, nothing special. With some work you can tune it up and it will cut but it is at best a $12-15 plane including postage.

That big a blowout on the #4 means that it's collector value is 0. Its user value is close to zero. If it was a small chip or chunk missing you could use it without worry, but that much missing means the left side is weakened, so is the bottom left near the mouth. It might work good today, and then break in half when you lay it on the shelf or hit a patch of wild grain. It might snap in half when you're trying to lock down the lever cap someday after sharpening the iron. It will break, it's just a matter of time.

If you sell on feebay, you can try parting it out. The wood looks real nice, and you've got a lever-cap, chipbreaker, iron and frog. You may be able to get a lot of your money back selling them piece by piece. Or you can put it on a shelf to remind you to be very vigilant when looking at online auctions. If you're lucky, someday a #4 body of the correct era will come along with no other parts (I've got 3-4, but I don't think any are that old.) and you can swap everything over and then have a solid user.

Hopefully you're able to tune up the handyman easily, and I hope this doesn't turn you off to old-tools.


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## palaswood (Aug 9, 2013)

No I didnt notice that. Feeling a bit sheepish, but we'll see how it looks when its delivered. But cmon, for 40 bucks, even if its falls apart tomorrow, I still have the handyman, and as you said, parts, and a lesson learned.

And value, in my opinion, is defined as the use I get out of it versus the cost I paid for it, not how much someone else is willing to pay for it.

If you're a big time collector, then I see where you're coming from, but to a novice woodworker like me, i'm still stoked to get it.

Looks like a clean break to me, though. Here's hoping.


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## palaswood (Aug 9, 2013)

@Justjoe: I appreciate your "edgier" response

I tend to go off half-cocked sometimes, but I'll wait until I get it to see.

No, the pictures were posted, but he didnt mention it in the written description, but hey, buyer beware.

40 bucks isnt a lot, lets be real. $25 buy it now, 15 shipping. Ehh. Chalk it up to another hasty purchase from an impulsive buyer.

This post wasnt meant to be about how badly I got screwed, I was just asking about the lever cap. But its better I find out now, then being unpleasantly surprised when I open it up.

By the way, since you seem to know about hand planes, does the blade, frog or lever cap rest up against the plane bottom sides with pressure?; i thought its just downward pressure on the bottom. If not, I can probably get some use out of it still. I'm in the early learning phase of my skills, so its all good.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

There is no pressure on the sides. It should make a user. If it wasn't clear I'd bitch to the seller. A break like that should have been clearly identified.

You can probably find a new base at some.point, but that's going to be $10 plus shipping.


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## palaswood (Aug 9, 2013)

Thanks Don for answering.

I dont mind spending 10 or 20 bucks to get a good bottom then, maybe I will try to restore it someday.

But for now, its gonna be a lot better than the Ace hardware 7" block plane I bought a few months back.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

It should.work fine. Turn the handyman into a jack.


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## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

palaswood, I have been having some planes come in to the shop lately. 
I may have a #4 Stanley. I like Sargents so I'm not really into the Stanley Baileys. 
I will look to see after mowing is done tomorrow. I will be happy to send you a #4 base if I have one, for no more than flat rate shipping.
I will want to keep the other pieces to use to build frankenplanes or something.

I'm sure that if I do happen to have one, it probably won't be a type 13, but you pays your nickel and you takes your chance.


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## palaswood (Aug 9, 2013)

@Don - How do I go about doing that? Turning the handyman into a jack plane. And what is the difference between a smoothing plane and a jack anyhow?

@Dallas, you're a saint. If you do have one, then that would be grand - I'd love it. If not, then I really appreciate the thought.

I get the feeling that there is a lot I can learn from you all. If you find it, message me and we can work out the details.

Cool.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Here some help to make sure the base will work. Match up the frog bases.

http://www.antique-used-tools.com/Bailey4_5FrogCompare.jpg


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## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

I don't know much about hand planes yet. I'm still working on Disston saws and trying to learn the different terms. 
I also have problems with the chewing gum and then which foot to start walking with thing.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I can help with the hand plane thing but have the same chewing gum foot forward problem.


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## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

The foot goes forward?????


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## sikrap (Mar 15, 2009)

It happens to all of us at one point or another. If Dallas doesn't have a spare body, let me know. I have a hunch that I have 1 or 15 out in the shop. You could bitch about the seller, but its gonna cost you $12 to send it back for $25, so all you'd net would be $13. If the iron, frog, chip breaker and wood are all good. You got your $13 worth. Plus, now you've learned that you should buy planes from Don or one of the other folks here. )


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## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

I checked, I don't have a #4 at all anymore. I'm sure I had one. I think it grew legs or wings!

Sorry if I got your hopes up.


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## grizzlymunchin (Aug 17, 2013)

I have a plane just like that but it's in good shape and it's one of the best stanley planes I have once you sharpen the blade it stays sharp longer than any stanley plane I have and Ihave a 36 no 4s my plane is very tight and does not chatter when I use it it's my favorite I think mine is a no 8 but some guy told me it was a frankin plane and I had a A18 aluminum plane and the same guy said it wasn't worth 25 bucks but I sold it for 145 bucks so it will be a great plane once you true it up and sharpen the blade you will see what Im sayin


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## grizzlymunchin (Aug 17, 2013)

I have been offered 80 buckskins for my 8 but I wouldn't let it slide you will like this plane


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## sikrap (Mar 15, 2009)

I'll check and see, but I'm pretty sure (99 44/100%) that I've got a spare 4 body out there. I'll check to make sure one will work with your frog and PM you.


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## palaswood (Aug 9, 2013)

thanks for checking dave. I really appreciate it. I'm gonna see how it looks when it arrives. ill post pics so you can see it.

@dalls - thanks for looking man. I haven't even gotten them yet so its all good.


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## sikrap (Mar 15, 2009)

Joseph, check your PM's


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## palaswood (Aug 9, 2013)

Dave is the best folks. He indeed has found a frog/bottom type 13 for me. All y'all have been great in helping me to salvage my first attempt at getting an old plane. I went the ebay route as I knew not better, and in my eagerness neglected to see the huge honking chip cracked off the right side of the type 13 no.4.

The planes arrive on the 26th, and I can't wait to start smoothing. I've got a whole litshoad a lumber burnin a hole in my pocket, and to be honest, im sorta glad my table saw motor crapped out (no, not really). Nothing like working wood with your own 2.

The litshoad o lumber:


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## TerryDowning (Aug 8, 2012)

Losing a table saw is as good a reason as any to go retro er. "Progressive Luddite"

I like the increase in personal safety and the decrease in dust and noise.


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## palaswood (Aug 9, 2013)

Yes terry! I love the fact that I can virtually eliminate the dust factor (cept for the hand sanding), but also that I now have a free means of production for gorgeous garden soil cover in the form of shavings. I have some tomatoes (quite tasty) coming in and I recently threw down the shavings i've been saving (couldnt bring myself to just throw them in the trash).

Looks fantastic and keeps the soil moist.

Hurry up USPS! I want my ebay booty asap!


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

all is well that ends well. Glad Dave had a body for you. I just bought a #4 exactly like yours. The difference was it was broke on the opposite side and I paid $3 for it. 

Keep us posted on the shavings!


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## palaswood (Aug 9, 2013)

Don, where are you getting these steals? Local flea markets? Garage sales?

I'm really stuck purchasing online, as I dont drive. I'm relegated to the distance I'm willing to travel by bicycle or bus. Problem is, I have to ride back (goes for both means of transpo).

Yeah, Dave is a king among men. I'm so eager to get to work with a decent plane. I just came up on some HEAVY salvaged boards from one of my favorite dumpsters (I dive, and I'm proud). Not sure what species it is, but 2 12x~40in boards (4/4) gotta be 20 - 25lbs. A handy plane would make short work of that old paint (is planing off paint ok? or a no-no).

Forgive the novice questions, but im excited dammit!


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## Tugboater78 (May 26, 2012)

I personally wouldn't put any of my good planes on the job of planing paint.. but that handyman I would hah


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

oh, paint is very tough on blades of any kind. I use a scrub. Pick up an old #5 (I just happen to have one for sale, and I bet Dave does too) and sharpen it with a good camber. Something like this.


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## palaswood (Aug 9, 2013)

Thanks Don. Got some reading to do on scrub planes and camber angles now…

SO much to learn here….

(we can talk about the #5 after pay day)


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## sikrap (Mar 15, 2009)

You DEFINITELY don't want to use the #4 to strip paint. Like suggested earlier, use the handyman, that's about all its good for ) When you're ready to buy another plane, check with Don, one of the other guys around here that sells them, or (if you get REALLY desperate)...me. The better news is that when you flatten/smooth/joint with a hand plane, you don't need to sand. As for the learning curve, check your library and see if they have either "Coarse, Medium and Fine" or "Hand Plane Basics". Both are by Chris Schwarz and are very good primers on the use of hand planes.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

oh yea, I forgot about the handyman. Put a camber on that iron and have at it. If you follow my rants, you'll learn I HATE handyman planes, but even a handyman can handle the jack duty.


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## palaswood (Aug 9, 2013)

SO they arrived much earlier than I expected and it turns out its a T13 4C:














































The iron appears to have a camber on it - do I want to do something about that?


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## palaswood (Aug 9, 2013)

So the tote is loose on my no.4. It moves when I plane. Is that just due to the screw being loose? I tightened it when I bought it, but its loose again. I may have not tightened it enough. I'm afraid to tighten it too much for fear of cracking the wood. Is that all there is to it? Just keep screwing it in?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

you want the tote tight. if you have room, crank it down. Sometime you need to make a shim or add some washers to it.


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## palaswood (Aug 9, 2013)

I'll have to take it apart and have a looksie. I was so eager to use it, but I better tune it up first. A shim! Why didnt *I* think of that.

It cuts great though, I'm loving it.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

the iron has to much of a camber to be a smoother. I'd see if I could pick up another iron, #4 irons can be had pretty reasonable, and keep the camber iron for rough work.


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## sikrap (Mar 15, 2009)

I agree with Don (surprise, huh?). A very modest camber isn't bad for a smoother, but I'd use that one in the handyman as a jack. If I had known, I would have thrown an iron in the box.


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## palaswood (Aug 9, 2013)

The iron on the handyman is pretty gnarled, but no real camber on it. maybe I could sharpen it up and use it in the no 4, if it fits. We shall see…

Oh, and will those stanley 2" replacement irons at Home Depot work? (they're like 12 bucks)

Thanks guys.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

the stanley 2" replacement irons at Home Depot will work, and they are not all that bad for at they cost, and they are $3


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## palaswood (Aug 9, 2013)

Thanks Don! (PG rated)


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

I always ask about the price on plane parts and damaged planes when I am out at flea markets and yard sales. Never know what you can pick-up for a Buck.


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