# Biesemeyer Fence Major Disappointment



## HillbillyShooter

Strange you should write this review as I was talking with a friend in the tool business yesterday and he said that Biesemeyer was no longer what it had been. Seems it has been acquired by the Chinese and is being manufactured in China. He now refuses to handle Delta for the same reason. Also, a heads up for all you LJs who are fans of the Kreg pocket screw system: Kreg is now moving production to China and there latest release from China has replaced metal with plastic and is no longer what Kreg used to be.


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## TheDane

> Also, a heads up for all you LJs who are fans of the Kreg pocket screw system: Kreg is now moving production to China and there latest release from China has replaced metal with plastic and is no longer what Kreg used to be.


That sucks. Kreg has always had high quality tools.


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## Hawk_Guy

I had to return everything including the rails that I just drilled to my saw. They will send a replacement as soon as the defective one arrives back at their warehouse. I really hope the holes line up with the replacement rails. If the replacement is crap as well then I will get a refund.

My next choice will be a very super cool table saw fence system. That's a real thing in case you were wondering…


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## Daruc

I know it's all about principle and accountability, 
but I would have just took a straight edge and routed the fence pcs to size and been done with it. 
At least right now I would be enjoying my new fence instead of,
wasted time taking the rails off that were just put on, and then having to ship it all back and wait for the new one, and then have to put the rails back on again.

In my opinion sometimes you just have to weigh it out, (15-20 minutes to rout)
but *I'm not saying your wrong*, just to each their own.


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## Hawk_Guy

Touche! Although getting a router bit passed the angle iron would have been impossible. Can't take the faces off without destroying the laminate either.


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## Daruc

> Touche! Although getting a router bit passed the angle iron would have been impossible. Can t take the faces off without destroying the laminate either.
> 
> - Hawk_Guy


Good point! I didn't think of that. 
Might have to spend 5 more minutes getting that last couple of inches with a sanding block or belt sander.


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## TheFridge

Hell with that. You buy what's supposed to be a top of the line fence then that's what it better MFing be. I'm not above some extra tuning but I have my limits.


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## TheDane

> My next choice will be a very super cool table saw fence system. That s a real thing in case you were wondering…


If I were in the market for a fence system, Allan Little's would be at the top of my list: http://vsctools.com/shop/product-category/table-saw-fence/


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## b2rtch

Hamk , 
I believe that your steel tube is not at the right place, causing all your problems. 
I had a similar problem that I solved by shimming the tube up.

After trying different fences for my Unisaw, I bought and I installed a Shop Fox fence and I am very happy with it.

http://smile.amazon.com/Shop-Fox-W2006-Classic-7-Foot/dp/B001UE7K1W/ref=sr_1_4?srs=2600467011&ie=UTF8&qid=1443184650&sr=8-4&keywords=shop+fox+fence

I installed it in such a way as to have 24" to the left of the blade


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## Hawk_Guy

> Hamk ,
> I believe that your steel tube is not at the right place, causing all your problems.
> I had a similar problem that I solved by shimming the tube up.
> 
> - b2rtch


Initially I thought the same thing so I rechecked the height of the angle iron that supports the tube and its right on. They even provided a precision metal template so that no measuring was necessary. If you look at the third picture you'll barely notice the uhmw tab that is supposed to be proud of the bottoms of the fence faces' edge. If I shim the tube up the aft side of the head will still sit on the table. Also there is quite a disparity in the height alignment of each face with respect to one another.


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## ssnvet

Major Bummer…. another quality brand goes China-ho and we all loose out.

My 30 year old Jet with a Biesemeyer fence is a tank…. the extruded aluminum T-track stuff doesn't come close to the rigidity of the steel tube.

I refurbished the fence and made new facings for it and expect to enjoy it's second 30 years of life.


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## MrRon

I put a Biesemeyer fence system on my Jet cabinet saw when it first came out. It has been around 30 years and I have been totally satisfied with it. I'm sorry you are having problems with your fence. I almost have to gloat over having a fence made in the U.S. of A. Most of my tools and machinery are made in the U.S.A., having procured them many years ago. I rest easy knowing I will never have to replace what I have and will be able to pass them down to my children. If you cannot get satisfaction with your fence, return it and look for a used one. They will be hard to find, a testament to their durability and quality


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## BurlyBob

Sorry to hear about your bad luck. I love my Biesemeyer fence.

b


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## wormil

I chose the Unifence over the Bies and it has been a great fence to own. The only downside is that jigs don't ride along the top but otherwise it has many advantages. The Bies was a great fence when it came out because all other fences were garbage, well except for the Unifence, but the tolerance on it was pretty poor by today's standards.


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## wbrisett

When I bought my Unisaw 12 years ago, it came with a Biesemeyer fence. I was OK, but once I upgraded to the Incra fence I never regretted taking it off. After working with the Incra system I couldn't see putting anything else on my saw. I ended up adding the router table to the saw so I could use the Incra system with that too. If I had room in my shop, I would have liked to have a separate table for the router, but otherwise I think the Incra system is one of the best on the market today. Accurate and repeatable results. If the Biesemeyer replacement doesn't work out for you, you might consider the Incra system.


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## SteveMI

I just installed a "Delta 36-T30 30" T2 Fence & Rail System Type 3" on my emerson/craftsman this month and I didn't have the issues you did except almost none of holes lined up with my table either. It came in a single box from Tool Barn, who I found on Amazon. They offered free shipping, it didn't qualify for Amazon Prime.

Mine came with an angle iron for the front and rear of the table saw. The UHMW tab rides on the rear angle iron, behind the table/wings.

My biggest criticism is the gap between fence slide and the tube. If I don't pull the fence back toward me clamping it can move the position. I keep thinking to see if there is an adjustment I didn't make so the gap is reduced.

And, since the holes don't seem to line up for anyone, why do they permanently glue the ruler on?

Mine says "Delta", not "Biesemeyer" like your picture. But the description matches yours.

Steve.


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## wormil

Delta owns Biesemeyer but the T2 is the Delta lighter duty version of Bies.


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## retfr8flyr

> When I bought my Unisaw 12 years ago, it came with a Biesemeyer fence. I was OK, but once I upgraded to the Incra fence I never regretted taking it off. After working with the Incra system I couldn t see putting anything else on my saw. I ended up adding the router table to the saw so I could use the Incra system with that too. If I had room in my shop, I would have liked to have a separate table for the router, but otherwise I think the Incra system is one of the best on the market today. Accurate and repeatable results. If the Biesemeyer replacement doesn t work out for you, you might consider the Incra system.
> 
> - wbrisett


Another big fan of the Incra system. I have one installed on my Jet saw, along with their router table and couldn't be happier. I hope you get a good version from CPO this time.


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## Hawk_Guy

The Delta T2 fence is a great fence system and I had one on my old Delta Contractor Saw. It's just not as heavy duty as the Biesemeyer. The Incra looks like a good fence a lot more pricey. Maybe way more than I need though.


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## CharlesA

I've never used an Incra, but it requires a lot more real estate on the saw and the floor. I simply don't have room for it.


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## woodsmithshop

I have had the Incra system on my table saw and router table for several years ,( separate systems) I won't go back to anything else now.


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## Hawk_Guy

For what it's worth, after doing some research, the Biesemeyer fence that gets installed on the new USA Umisaws is actually built in the USA! I am really disappointed that it would only be made for the saw and not for general consumers as a standalone product. I'm guessing the lower cost of the current universal system is an indicator of plummeting quality. New fence is on the way, we'll see where it goes….


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## Midway

I bought an older (cast iron) craftsman 10" used took it apart and it needed a new spindle arbor, so i built
a new one and put new bearings on it.
I could not afford an expensive fence system so i went to the yard store and bought what i needed for
a fence. With the use of my bridgeport and german lathe, i built a fence using a picture of a Biesemeyer.
The fence cost me approx $75.00 and works great.


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## Hawk_Guy

New fence is in, same dinged up packaging for the rails, same cosmetic damage. So much for 9 ply Baltic birch…









Looks like 3 ply garbage to me…will test fit tonight.


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## Daruc

> New fence is in, same dinged up packaging for the rails, same cosmetic damage. So much for 9 ply Baltic birch…
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Looks like 3 ply garbage to me…will test fit tonight.
> 
> - Hawk_Guy


WOW, I have to admit, that does look like garbage, I wouldn't want it. (Not for what they charge)


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## Kennyl

I did purchase the VSC fence,checked with my starrett straight edge and it is very flat.I bought a Powermatic 66 come to find out the fence was made in Taiwan.None of the companies are what they used to be.


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## Hawk_Guy

Checked the face against my precision straight edge and there was no obvious waves. The dial indicator will be the true test. However, because the bottom of the guide tube came with untapped holes I'll have to wait till tomorrow to buy a metric tap to finish what the manufacturer and all its glorious quality freaking assurance forgot to do!


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## SteveMI

I got an email asking for review of my Delta 36-T30 T2 from Tools-Plus. (Delta version, not the bies fence) After doing the review it took me to the fence page and it now says "This item is not stocked or has been discontinued". I only bought one 30 days ago.

Steve.


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## wormil

> Checked the face against my precision straight edge and there was no obvious waves. The dial indicator will be the true test.
> - Hawk_Guy


No, the straight edge is the true test. There is no TS fence made that will pass a dial indicator except as a fluke, and they don't need to. Even my Unifence which is aluminum extrusion isn't perfect if you put a DI on it, there is a .004 dip in one spot.


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## Hawk_Guy

> Checked the face against my precision straight edge and there was no obvious waves. The dial indicator will be the true test.
> - Hawk_Guy
> 
> No, the straight edge is the true test. There is no TS fence made that will pass a dial indicator except as a fluke, and they don t need to. Even my Unifence which is aluminum extrusion isn t perfect if you put a DI on it, there is a .004 dip in one spot.
> 
> - Rick M.


You are correct, I don't expect 0.000" because anywhere the is a fastener holding the face to the body ther will undoubtedly be a dip. Was just saying that until I put a dial indicator on it to measure I won't know the extent of it.


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## wormil

I'm just meant not to drive yourself nuts worrying about perfection. If it looks good against your straightedge then you are in good shape.


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## Hawk_Guy

Fence is all installed and assembled. Some gripes but I'll live with it. When you look at the fence face in good lighting you see crazy waves, like the kind you see on lumber that has been rough planed at a mill. I ran the dial indicator down the fence and one of the waves dips in 0.010". My stock Shop Fox fence only waved a max of 0.002". Another fun fact, the tape on the guide tube is so far off the mark that the cursor on the fence head can't be zeroed (about 1/4" off). The Shop Fox tape had error that gradually increased as you moved away from the blade so I had to replace it. Guess I'll be replacing this one too. The inside of the fence faces are bare plywood and it leaves the product looking unfinished.


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## playingwithmywood

> I had to return everything including the rails that I just drilled to my saw. They will send a replacement as soon as the defective one arrives back at their warehouse. I really hope the holes line up with the replacement rails. If the replacement is crap as well then I will get a refund.
> 
> My next choice will be a very super cool table saw fence system. That s a real thing in case you were wondering…
> 
> - Hawk_Guy


If I had my choice I would put the Incra Table saw fence on my saw but it has the downside that is needs more clearance then my saw allows. I have the Delta T2 fence and it has been good to me but one day I dream on the Incra and a bigger shop so it will fit


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## CyberDyneSystems

Shame about the Beisemeyere being crap. I have always preferred that fenc to all others, and indeed have one installed on my '42 Unisaw and we have the SawStop at work with it's very adequate beisemeyer copy for a fence.

I hope your next one pans out. Another solution, (what i did) is look for an old used one from the Pre Delta days. (Although the Delta ones were fine for a while too)


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## Cato

I had fence problems with a Ridgid saw and put a Delta T-2 30 on it, and yes had to peel the tape off and put a new Starrett on one, but that was a terrific fence.
My Jet doesn't have a Biese but likely a similar type of fence. They call it Exacta II, and it is really solid.
I hope you get your Biese tuned to your liking, so you can get back to making sawdust!


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## JimAtLumberjocks

I'm sorry you had the trouble with your Biesmeyer fence. I recently upgraded from a 70's vintage craftsman contractor saw with a exacti-cut fence to a Delta Unisaw with a Biesmeyer fence. I love it. Good luck getting your fence to work properly on the Grizzly!


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## Holt

> My next choice will be a very super cool table saw fence system. That s a real thing in case you were wondering…
> 
> - Hawk_Guy


Is it made by a company that sounds like a South American tribe of Indians and colored to look like Iron Man armor?


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## Dedvw

I just added this to my review of the Unisaw i purchased about a year ago. Ill add it here as well because I think it's important information for anyone that owns this fence.




























While ripping some flag box framing, I always rip about a1/4inch off of the wood to set glass in. While I was performing the ripping cut i noticed the blade came out of the wood I was cutting. I'm like WTH just happened! Upon closer inspection, I found that a small fermica piece that was double side taped to the back of the locking lever of my fence gave out. Let you know that i never modified this fence and i always perform my cleaning and maintenance. Losing this peice let the fence slide slowly, as if it felt locked, but not totally. I could have lost some fingers if it wasn't for my push blocks and paying attention. A double sticky taped piece of fermica that is critical to lockdown is totally unacceptable in a saw this class. I never had a fence slip like this on me. I hope this saves someone's fingers.


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## Richard_D

New forum member, I just wanted my first post to be a "Thank you" for recommending this product. I never knew something like it existed.


> My next choice will be a very super cool table saw fence system. That s a real thing in case you were wondering…
> 
> If I were in the market for a fence system, Allan Little s would be at the top of my list: http://vsctools.com/shop/product-category/table-saw-fence/
> 
> - TheDane


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