# reinforcing Maloof joint



## harum (Nov 25, 2013)

What would be a better way to reinforce Maloof joints between the legs and the seat rails? One 5/16" construction screw in the middle of the joint or two 3/16" deck screws? The legs of the bench I'm building are pretty long (the centers of the joints are 18-1/2" above the floor), and it feels like the joints could use some reinforcement. The joints are 1-1/8" deep into 1-3/4"-thick rails. In the images below a Maloof joint cross-section is shown; L is for leg, R-rail, and C - corner block:



















If using two screws, where in the joint should they go for a stronger bond? For example, would moving the screws towards the center, like below, be stronger?










Would greatly appreciate any hint! Thanks, h.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

The maloof joint is plenty strong without screws, but screws are good for pulling the joint together while the glue is drying. A couple 3" deck screws is plenty.


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## harum (Nov 25, 2013)

> The maloof joint is plenty strong without screws, but screws are good for pulling the joint together while the glue is drying. A couple 3" deck screws is plenty.
> 
> - firefighterontheside


Thanks! Yes, they feel pretty strong for vertical loads. However, because of the longer legs and shallower joints I've been having doubts about side loads. The legs flex a bit in the cross-section plane shown in the images above.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

A properly done Maloof joint does not need screws. I used jigs that Bill Kappel recommended to make tight joints. I built my rocker and had tight joints using System Three T-88 epoxy. The joints are plenty strong. I would be concerned about cracking joints with 3" deck screws.

One does need to pay attention to how you clamp. Several of the rocker plans show leaving clamping pad areas to help get proper pressure. I did a number of dry fit ups to make certain I knew how to clamp properly.


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## harum (Nov 25, 2013)

> A properly done Maloof joint does not need screws.
> ...
> 
> - Redoak49


Thanks! Yes, might be overthinking on my part. My Maloof joints are tight but, on the other hand, they are not on a short-legged rocker but on a 19"-high bench.


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

I think it would depend on how long of a bench you are building and average weight it needs to tolerate. Most benches have an apron on each side that is tongue and grooved into the legs. Will this bench have any other reinforcement?


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## tblank (Apr 8, 2010)

If I were hell bent on adding a screw to this joint, I'd prefer to use one screw/bolt with the largest diameter allowable for shear strength. And, only one to keep the penetrations into the wood to be as few as possible. Less chance for failure and splitting over time. This also can be accomplished with a wooden peg. One of contrasting varieties and visible from behind to add a nice touch but out of the way and unobtrusive.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

i did a maloof rocker and used 2 #10×3 wood screws for the front leg and back leg,the front was done as in your 3rd drawing,the rear leg were side by side no clamps were needed.you can see what i did if you look in my projects.


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## harum (Nov 25, 2013)

Appreciate all the feedback!



> I think it would depend on how long of a bench you are building and average weight it needs to tolerate. Most benches have an apron on each side that is tongue and grooved into the legs. Will this bench have any other reinforcement?
> 
> - mahdee


This bench is for one person, it's about 28" wide. The legs extend 5" up above the rails; two legs on each side are connected by an arm rest, similar to Maloof benches; no other reinforcement is in plans.



> If I were hell bent on adding a screw to this joint, I d prefer to use one screw/bolt with the largest diameter allowable for shear strength. And, only one to keep the penetrations into the wood to be as few as possible. Less chance for failure and splitting over time. This also can be accomplished with a wooden peg. One of contrasting varieties and visible from behind to add a nice touch but out of the way and unobtrusive.
> 
> - tblank


Yes, I prefer just one big screw per joint. However, on the other hand, two screws per joint, if done one above the other as in images above, could eliminate the transfer of racking force to the joint in the direction where it is weakest. A single screw in the middle might hold the joint together but, unlike a pair of screws, might not prevent spreading of the stress within the joint.

A hidden dowel from inside is another option! Thanks!



> i did a maloof rocker and used 2 #10×3 wood screws for the front leg and back leg,the front was done as in your 3rd drawing,the rear leg were side by side no clamps were needed.you can see what i did if you look in my projects.
> 
> - pottz


Great job! Looks like in your rocker both screws went into the "tongue" of the joint on the seat side. Mine tongue is only 7/8" thick and cannot accommodate both screws.


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## tblank (Apr 8, 2010)

It looks to me, that this joint was designed with glue surface area in mind. That with epoxy would make a pretty solid connection. Coupled with a screw or dowel and it should stand up to all the dynamic forces subjected to in use.


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

Just what is a Maloof Joint?










And I cannot possibly see how putting glue or screws in it would make it stronger, well ….maybe some epoxy glue.

I can however imagine Pottzy Rocking around in his workshop with his maloof joint underway!

However on a more serious note, also as pottzy mentioned with his you can check out my projects/blogs.
In particular the prototype chair as its taken a bit of a beating.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> Just what is a Maloof Joint?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


sam rolled his a lot smaller using walnut shavings,after a few hits he'd take a swig of maloof oil,sounds odd but hey it kept him going into his 90's-LOL.
hey whether you think the joint needs screws or not if the worlds most famous woodworker thought it was a good idea im not gonna argue the point.


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## harum (Nov 25, 2013)

> ... if the worlds most famous woodworker thought it was a good idea im not gonna argue the point.
> 
> - pottz


Was it Joseph, or Sam, or Hal? Wait, I think I know! Only one of them used screws on Maloof joints.


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

Ha ha, I thought I would get the ruler across the knuckles with that one for sure!
Now if it can sustain life as well as his I am off looking for some Maloof Oil.
A bit of trivia:
A picture of him when he was in the Army.










If you check out some of Sam's work there are screws behind the contrasting wood plugs are there not?


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

yes rob you did deserve a good catholic nun knuckle buster but i was in a good mood and found humor in your response so you got off easy.and yes there are screws behind those plugs.


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