# Lending and Borrowing of Tools???



## CryptKeeper (Apr 28, 2010)

I had a very unpleasant conversation with one of my neighbors this weekend and I just want to see where others LJer's stand on lending and borrowing tools.

I have only known Robert for about 6 months and he came over to my house with a list of tools he wanted to borrow to put in some closet shelving. (Circular saw, drill, drill bits, level.)

I politely explained that I do not lend out my tools but I would be happy to come over and give him a hand. At this point, his tone changed and he said I DON"T need a hand I just need to use your tools. I apologized and told him that I was sorry but I wouldn't be lending him my tools.

Robert begins to mutter something under his breath to the effect of "are you afraid I'm going steal your stuff and I can afford buy anything you have."

Now, I'm just plain irritated and give him my dad's two rules.

Rule #1: Never borrow a tool you can't afford to replace.
Rule #2: If you can afford to replace it you have no reason to borrow it in the first place.

The one time I broke this rule I borrowed a chainsaw from my brother-in-in law and the first time I pulled the rope the sprocket stripped and rope broke. It cost me $50 to fix a chainsaw never used and I still had to buy one.

Don't get me wrong I've gone to a buddy's shop and used his drum sander and he has come over and used my shop to build a Christmas present for his wife. I think this type of "borrowing" is a little different than someone showing up at your door with a shopping list - not to mention I've known Steve for over 20 years.

Where do you stand? Do you loan your tools out? Do you borrow tools?


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## nailbanger2 (Oct 17, 2009)

I have used that same argument with someone at a job, another contractor. It wasn't even a "tool" per se, he was going to the dump with a trailor and wanted to use my blue tarp (40×20) that I use to protect floors from drywall mud, and paint. I told him no, that that tarp wasn't purchased to be wind whipped up against construction debris at 60 mph. He said if there was any damage, he'd buy me a new one. I said "the Home Depot is on the way to the dump".

Does that answer your question? (I know, it's not really a question, is it?)


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## hairy (Sep 23, 2008)

In my line of work, special tools are the norm. Borrowing / loaning tools and helping others / asking for help is a part of the job, we're not flat rate.

If I needed to borrow a tool a second time, I bought it.

In your case, I would have played it the way you did.


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

I like your dad's rules.

I have lent smaller tools to my brother, and a few others I trust (without any incident), but certainly don't make it a habit.

On your last point, about going to a buddy's shop and using his tools, I would comfortable with it as well if there was an exchange as you indicate.

But I can tell you from experience that when a neighbour and a co-worker called to ask me if "we" could thickness a few pieces of oak, and I agreed, he brought in 10 pieces of 15/16ths x 9" wide x 10' long and wanted them taken down to 5/8".
It was a very long hour for me jointing and thickness planing when I envisioned 15 minutes, so one should be careful with that side of it too!

Obviously the "we" turned into me…

On the other hand, a friend and I trade bobcat attachments which are substantially more money than some shop tools, but we both know how they operate and can afford to replace them if required. We have made purchases knowing that we will share them, so that is almost a different thing entirely.

You made the right choice, in my opinion.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Loaning out tools to fellow woodworkers/friends you know and trust is quite different than loaning to a neighbor you hardly know. I sure wouldn't.


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## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

I "loan" my hand tools out all the time- to my sons. The only trouble is the tools never seem to make it back to my shop so I end up either trying to remember to get them back when I visit the grandkids or simply using this as an excuse (which is what usually happens) to buy new ones.

I think your offer to help was more than fair.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I have one person I lend tools too and only one besides my kids. I lent a sawzall to a neighbour a couple years ago and he said he only needed it for a couple hours. After a week I went to his house to ask for it back ,he wasn't home but my sawzall was, Laying in his front yard in a foot long grass after 3 days of heavy rain. I took it home cleaned it and it still worked. I never heard from again about it. either he thought someone had stolen it or just didn't care all together.


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## wmodavis (Aug 28, 2007)

I have a further rule. Don't loan out a tool that you don't want to replace at your own cost ot cannot get along without. This whole approach, i.e. not loaning tools is tough especially when you like to help people. I also like to use my tools and if I need one because it is 'out on loan' or because it came back unusable it limits my range of helpfulness and enjoument of my hobby. I do as you described don't loan but offer to bring my tool and help.


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## pommy (Apr 17, 2008)

I don't and never wood to many horror stories we all spend all our hard earned wages on our tools and for some idiot to ruin them NO NO NO NO sorry for my rant

Andy


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

My neighbors don't ask to borrow my tools… The ones that are handy enough with tools not to be dangerous with them, already have them, the ones that don't have tools have no inclination toward using them. (They have a contractor on speed dial…)

I am sorry your neighbor got bent out of shape… But the concern for me wouldn't be if they didn't come back… (I have all my serial #s, and I KNOW where the neighbor lives…), my concern would be them doing something stupid, removing a finger or a hand and then suing ME for loaning him the tools to hurt himself with…

Get a 10 page liability waiver, and insist he sign a copy for EACH tool he wants to borrow. That should stop that nonsense right there…


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## CryptKeeper (Apr 28, 2010)

dbhost,
You know I hadn't even considered the potential liability especially, after that table saw lawsuit.


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## nailbanger2 (Oct 17, 2009)

As a carpenter, the one thing that people generally ask to use at a job site is my hammer. I usually tell them, sure, I'm a carpenter, why would I need a hammer?

Kind of a cruel trick, but I have a 20 oz. Estwing that is just perfect for me in most situations (nail set or 16p driving) and I've got an older one that I broke the shaft underneath the rubber grip. If I can, I give them that one (you can't tell it's broke by looking) and wait until they use it.


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## DanCo (Jun 19, 2010)

I only loan my tools to my Dad or my Brother. Even then I still feel uneasy. I usually offer to help someone out or they can work in the shop with me watching. Although the last one may be changed. Just last night a neighbor came in and wanted to use my planer and band saw. I now have to get new blades for the planer because of an unseen nail (he was shocked I asked for him to help with the cost). Then went over to my band saw, decided he needed more tension and my rubber on my tire has to be replaced. I don't think anyone will use my tools again unless its dad or my bro.


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## NathanAllen (Oct 16, 2009)

For most tools I keep loaner versions around for my neighbors to borrow. If they know what they're doing they can use the primary, but doesn't stop me from getting night sweats.


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## canadianchips (Mar 12, 2010)

You did the right thing. If he had the money to buy anything you have, let him go buy it. Buy two and let others borrow from him !
A one liner that works is : Yes you can borrow it if you leave your right testicle as a deposit ! (For our lady LJ an ovary could be a deposit as well.)
I do not borrow my tools.


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## JJohnston (May 22, 2009)

"Buy two and let others borrow from him !"

ZING!


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## juniorjock (Feb 3, 2008)

Yes, you did the right thing Ron.


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## Gatsby1923 (Oct 22, 2009)

I loan some tools to some people. I have a good friend and we loan each other tools all the time, but I have known him since I was 14 and it really is mutual. I will loan my brother tools but it he has never wanted anything more than a pipe wrench. Aside from that neither a borrower nor lender be. I personally am very helpful and will cut things in my table saw for you, show up and help you install things. I personally would rather have one of my tools destroyed by a borrower than to me destroy a tool i borrowed and that is why I don't borrow or lend out many tools.

Dave M


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Better to see his true colors at no expense now, instead of after you've lent him anything. No loss!


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## Gregn (Mar 26, 2010)

There are only one or two people I will borrow any of my tools to. They are also the ones that if they don't know how to use it, they ask me if I can do it for them. I am particular when it comes to the kids as well. After replacing a couple of handles and other tools my son knows which he'll get. All others I have a pat answer for and that is.
1. You must sign a liability waiver.
2. The deposit is what it will cost for me to replace the tool.
3. There's a $10.00 an hr tool rental.
When they say I'm nuts, I ask them to go ask their mechanic to borrow his tools to fix your car. They say oh no he charges, thats when I reply so do I.
*There's your sign!* Buddy.


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## rastus (Nov 25, 2009)

You've only known him 6 months and he comes over with a list!!? Did he at least start "browning" you up ahead, or just ask for the tools? The longer the list the quicker I would have shown him the door. I don't mind lending mine out, but 1 or 2 at a time. Heck I've had my brother inlaw's biscuit cutter for a couple years now. He calls me when he needs it. He rarely uses it, I use it on all my furniture projects.

Paul


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## LateNightOwl (Aug 13, 2009)

I am adding a room addition which, unfortunately, has a door leading into my shop. The temptation is too great. So far, I have fired two contractors for using my tools after they were expressly told that my tools were off limits. Yes, they were damaged. I got all the lame "it was just for a minute" or "only one cut" excuses, and one guy stupidly told me that he thought he could get away with it without me finding out.

I ended up putting the permit in my name and hiring my own crew. My guys aren't very experienced, but they are hard workers and willing to learn from me. The upside is that my room is being built the way I want it done and at the level of quality I want. The downside is that the guys often have to use my tools, but they know better than to abuse them… the deal we have made is that if any of my tools are damaged or even look beat up - by my judgement - they get to keep the damaged tool, but they will buy a replacement for me. Fortunately, I haven't had to put it to the test yet.


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## davidpettinger (Aug 21, 2009)

I used to KEEP a wooden tool box with a lead head hammer with a pipe handle, an old drywall saw, a broken tape measure, bent nails, rusty screws, a really blunt straight screw driver, a stripped Phillips screw driver, a non-functioning battery operated drill and a circular saw with no cord in my shop. The box was labeled LOANERS.


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

Ron,
Don't worry 'bout it. You handled it just right.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I have a very close relationship with a bunch of guys on my street. Some own pressure washers, some have extension ladders, some (like me) have a lot of power tools. We borrow from each other occasionally, but we also trust each other 100%. We all know that if something of ours is lost or damaged, it will be replaced immediately.

But had I been approached by a neighbor I had not known that long, with a shopping list of items he wanted to borrow, I would have handled it the same way you did.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Shakespeare summed it pretty well in Hamlet when he wrote:
"Neither a borrower nor a lender be; 
For loan oft loses both itself and friend, 
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry."


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## nailbanger2 (Oct 17, 2009)

Hamlet? But of course! (still chuckling)


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

What else but Hamlet would you expect from a guy named "The Dane"?


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## nailbanger2 (Oct 17, 2009)

I'm glad someone got that , Charlie.


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## Edziu (Jan 17, 2010)

Lots of good responses. I have been on both sides of this coin. My Dad borrowed a neighbor's 3" portable planer about 20 years ago. We've still got it.

In our new shop, (which will be chronicled here someday) we were having work done by contractors, and they borrowed our jig/sabre saw, and now the blades won't stay in. They offered to take it to the local repair center… problem fixed.

We were moving in and my neighbor noticed (how could you not) our panel saw. A few days later he asked about it and wondered if he could have some plywood ripped so he could easily fit it through his attic. We told him yes, as soon as we were settled in. He owns a bakery, so I doubt that anything bad can come of this arrangement.


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## CryptKeeper (Apr 28, 2010)

Paul,
I don't really know the guy that well we've talked a few times while doing yard work. A few months ago he spied my tools while the garage door was up and it lead to a conversation about woodworking. Saturday he saw me at the mailbox and followed me back to house with do you have a second…..


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Absolutely, Cryptkeeper!
I've had friends, relatives find excuses to get into my workshop, and their roving eyes take inventory of all I own, and sooner or later they're wanting to borrow something.


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

This old adage has been around for centuries, "Neither a lender nor a borrower be." Just as true today as it was a few centuries ago when someone thought it up. 
If I need it, I buy it. If I can't afford it, I don't need it.


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## Jesse_Rei (May 23, 2010)

this is a constant struggle with me.. it comes down to trust. if its someone i know is gonna respect the tool and bring it back when there done with it in the same condition they took it in then i have no problem lending tools out. unfortunately 90% of the time thats not the case and i end up finding the tool laying in the dirt or in a junk tool pile with broken blades or worse.. chisels are a common one i keep a few around that when they ask for one i lend them the same one which i never fix. so when they bitch that it has a big chip in it from the 16d nail they were cutting with it or the concrete they used it to scrape i can rub it in there face.. i know im mean but it makes me feel alil better. 

if i borrow a tool i bring it back when im done with it… in the same or better condition i took it in and if it gets damaged i replace it end of story. its just common curtesy its infuriating how many people lack that simple quality.


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## mcase (Oct 31, 2009)

This guy showed up with a list! You got to be kidding! Like a number of others here, I have one or two skilled friends I've known for years that I loan to and will loan to me. Some dude I've know for sixth months showing up with a list - no way. Your too nice. You did what a lot of us would have done you offered to help rather than loan. I've done the same. This guy's response to your offer makes me think he's a little unstable. Maybe this a warning sign. Whatever you do, if he ever asks to borrow your shotgun or chainsaw don't offer to help.


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## GaryC (Dec 31, 2008)

Another good reason for living out in the country. No neighbors close enough to come borrowing and most folks out here have their own.


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## twokidsnosleep (Apr 5, 2010)

I was raised with two saying that apply here and have stuck in my head
"Neither a borrower nor lender be" 
"Possession is 9/10ths of the law" 
I remember mishaps with stuff when I or someone else broke these rules and the aftermath it created….wreaked cars (not me btw), broken video cameras, stolen furniture. It is like Karma kicking you in the a$$.
I fully support your decision to basically a stranger, he sent up the red flags up right away. If the borrowing starts it never ends….and trying to get it returned is even worse. Possession is 9/10ths of the law and borrowers seem to use this and forget what they borrow and then who owns it. 
It takes a certain type of person to ask for tools and decline a gracious offer for help.

I love this ""I would rather lend my dog than a tool. The dog knows the way back home." really funny David


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## CryptKeeper (Apr 28, 2010)

I was baffled by this clown as raddled off his list it was like he thought he was at Home Depot.

Gary: I definitely miss living in the country myself. I was born and raised in south Alabama until I moved to Seattle my nearest neighbor was 1/2 mile a way. If one of them showed up looking for something it was an extra set of hands and you dropped whatever you were doing to go help.


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## lilredweldingrod (Nov 23, 2009)

Hey, CryptKeeper,
He's got a list, maybe he was really wanting you to take him to the big box and advise him on the best tools to buy. lol yeah right.


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

"Can I borrow your chainsaw?" 
"No. I'm making soup." 
"What does making soup have to do with my borrowing your chainsaw?" 
"If I don't want to loan you my chainsaw, one reason is as good as another." 
Always though this was a good story.


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## TheWoodsmith (May 28, 2010)

no way i never loan a tool to anyone my father in law totally disrespected my shiney new engine stand and a welding hood of mine and i went nuts! However, My house, shop, and whatever is always available if someone needs to stop by and handle something or what have you. I don't consider going into my woodshop WITH me and running my tablesaw to be "borrowing" but if you want to use my tools it'll be at my place and i'll be there too!


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## rtb (Mar 26, 2008)

I've never been asked to loan a tool except by my son and we do borrow back and forth regularly without any problem. I was asked by a neighbor who helps me any time i ask to cut an edge on a board for a shelf which I was very happy to do. (note he did not want to use the table saw just asked if I would make the cut.The one who borrows the most and usually forgets to return them is my wife (of 45 yrs) but even thats better than a stranger and its not like I realy have a choice.


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## surfin2 (Oct 24, 2009)

You did the right thing. I don't loan tools out, come over and give them a hand…


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## bobkberg (Dec 26, 2009)

Hi Cryptkeeper - I'm pretty much in agreement here - You handled it correctly. I'd rather "loan" my neighbors my time - having learned the hard way with some of my tools. And the "shopping list" business is WAY out of line!


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## noknot (Dec 23, 2008)

A list 6 mos what that joker was lucky you didnt tell him to pound sand. I only loan to whom loan to me but most of the people I know say come over drink a beer bye the way bring a sod roller rake shovels bobcat truck trailer and any one else who wants to have a beer. Truth be known it doesnt bother me to help, but a freeking list my a$$ you did right and he's an idiot.


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## PocketHole69 (Jan 31, 2010)

noknot, when are you coming over with the sod roller, rake, shovels, bobcat, and trailer? I've got beer!


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## CryptKeeper (Apr 28, 2010)

I saw my 'neighbor' out in his yard last night and just to be nice I waved - he wouldn't acknowledge it - if nothing else I learned a little bit about the guys character.

Thanks for all of the responses I didn't think I was way off base.


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## boboswin (May 23, 2007)

I'm not lending my tools out like my neighbour did.

Frankly , I got tired of sitting in the dark with no TV while he pounded on my front door.

I can now see how frustrating it must be.


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## CryptKeeper (Apr 28, 2010)

I went to an open web session that had my original message in it and when I closed the window it looks like it posted again - sorry, duplicate post removed


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

I got sick of people borrowing my jumper cables, and dropping them wherever they landed once they were through with them. One day when I soldered the wires to the clamps, I switched colors from one end to the other. Heh, I was the only one who knew to put black on positive on one of the vehicles. That cured everybody!!


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