# Nema 6-15 plug with a Nema L6-50 outlet



## moriartii (Jun 21, 2012)

I have a Grizzly G0661 that is pre-wired for 220 and has a Nema 6-15 plug on the end. The specs say the minimum circuit for 220 is 15A at 220v.

When I had my house built I had a 220 dedicated circuit installed in the garage. I believe it is a Nema L6-50 receptacle. I know that it has a double pole 50 amp breaker on it, so I assume it is a 240v 50 amp circuit.

My question is, I know I need to change the receptacle out to a Nema 6-20. Do I also need to replace the breaker, downsizing from 50 am to either 20 or 30?

Thank you
K


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## Lifesaver2000 (Nov 17, 2009)

Considering how things usually go on electrical threads around here, I am surprised you haven't gotten an answer yet on this. I guess I'll take a chance and throw something out there. If nothing else it will bump the thread and maybe a real electrician will take notice.

First off, I don't really know a certain answer to your question. What I do know is that the breaker does not have to be sized to the load. If it did, we would have to have much smaller breakers feeding the circuit to a lamp or other small load in our homes. But, since the 6-20 receptacle itself is only rated at 20 amps, and it would be a permanently wired part of the circuit, then I suspect that you would need to size the breaker to protect this "weak link" part of the permanent wiring in order to meet code.

What I do see though are some other options. One is to create a short "pigtail" of a 6-50 male and 6-20 or 6-15 female, with appropriate size power cord. Since this is not a part of the permanent wiring, it would not be necessary to size the breaker to protect it.

Another option that you might consider is mounting a small breaker box near your 50 amp circuit, and feeding this box with a plug and cable from the 50 amp receptacle. Then you could wire multiple 220v circuits so you would have options for future 220v tools or higher power 120 circuits. These small boxes are cheap and easy to set up, and then you could have a lot of options for the future, as well as a "local" appropriately sized breaker for your current needs.

Those are my ideas. I'm sure someone will be along soon to give their ideas/opinions.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

You are right Lifesaver2000. No one wants to bite on this one. hhhhhmmmmm!!!!

Moriartii, the answer is not you don't need to downsize the breaker if you change the receptacle. The receptacle is mounted in a rated enclosure and we do it all the time. Homes have a 20A breaker with 12 ga wiring and a 15 amp rated receptacle at the end. This is similiar to what you are wanting to do isn't it? The breaker protects the wiring in the wall cavity. In most place there is no conduit to contain a wiring fire so the breaker must protect the wire. If you were able to mount a receptacle (never do this) without a box then it would also have to be protected by the breaker. I probably wouldn't make the p[igtails because of expense. Those would not be cheap to build. Buy the needed receptacle since this is the only thing you will use.

BTW, I am not a licensed electrician. I have taken a NEC class and have done some of this work for myself. I inspect electric panels for a living and have seen it all…...or you think you have when more of it shows up.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

I'm not an electrician nor do I play one on TV. My guess is that the 50 amp circuit is there for an AC/DC welder. I would think you could just get or make up a plug adapter/pigtail and leave the breakers alone - you will certainly never overload the circuit, and the breakers are there to protect the wire in the wall. A real electrician is welcome to speak up and shoot this down.


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## moriartii (Jun 21, 2012)

Thank you all for this information!!!

It appears the wall receptacle is a Nema 14-50r. Would there be an issue switching this to the needed Nema 6-20r? I assume the three wires should hook directly up to it?

Thank you
K


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

exactly as you stated moriartii


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## moriartii (Jun 21, 2012)

Thank you!

Cheers
K


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## Lifesaver2000 (Nov 17, 2009)

Grandpa, just an FYI. When I install a 120v outlet with a 20 amp breaker and 12 ga wire, I use a 5-20, not a 5-15. May not be necessary, but I feel better about it. I also have on occasion run across an appliance with the 5-20 plug, so it just seems to make sense to use those receptacles when I can. They don't cost much if anything more when buying good ones anyway.

Also, just looked up the price of the 14-50 plug, and for what they want for those I would change it to something else too instead of buying a plug. I thought at first we were talking about something like an electric range plug. I can pick those up with a five foot cable ready to wire up for $15, but they want nearly $50 for that 14-50 plug!


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

You know, with a 50 amp outlet, you could actually install a sub panel on that line and have several circuits you could use in your garage. That said, I think if I was going to hook my TS to it, I would make a pigtail as dhazelton suggested. One thing you may run into trying to put a 6-20 receptacle on it is the size of the wire would make it a pretty snug fit on the receptacle. Not a bad thing, necessarily, but might be a PITA.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

Wait, if you built the house moriartii what did you run that much juice to the garage for? It seems like the suggestion above to split it with a subpanel makes more sense and may be what the electrician intended. You could run dust collection at the same time you run the saw, or whatever.


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## moriartii (Jun 21, 2012)

I am a bit confused about the sub panel suggestion. Is this like an RV hook up? I am imagining removing the Nema 14-50 plug and then hooking the sub panel up to the wire.

As far as when the house was built, I told them I wanted a dedicated 220 outlet in the garage. I "assumed" they would put in what I needed. My TS is my first 220 tool so I was clueless when we had the house built.

K


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Don't know whether it would be like an RV hookup. What I'm suggesting is to buy a subpanel, I think the one you wind up with might be rated at 60 amps (never saw a 50 amp one, doesn't matter) and wire it to the feed. Then you would have the ability to add the circuits you need. A lot of shops have more than adequate power with such a setup. The shop I have now had 50 amps when we bought the house, though he was using a 200 amp surplus power center for the subpanel. That's not a problem, because the amperage is protected by the breaker at the source. If by RV hookup you mean the subpanel would plug into the existing outlet, that is not what I'm suggesting.


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## moriartii (Jun 21, 2012)

Thank you Fred.
I called and spoke to the company that installed my wiring. The guy may be able to swing by and take a look for me. He isn't sure if they used copper or al for my wiring.

Regarding the sub panel, I am envisioning removing the current receptacle and hooking the wiring up to the panel (breaker box). Then come off of that with the proper wire and conduit for my needed plugs?
K


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## JesseTutt (Aug 15, 2012)

Sub panels are used in larger buildings all the time. Usually a 200v high amperage line is ran from the main panel to a different location (garage, different floor, or separate building) and connected to a sub panel. A sub panel is different from the main panel as it *does not* have a main breaker and sub panels do not have the grounding screw installed that connects the neutral wire to the ground wire.

My first thought when I read your post was to put a sub panel in the workshop. You can go to the local big box hardware store, find a competent electrician working in the electrical department, tell him you have the 50A 220V line coming in and you want a sub panel to subdivide the circuit. He should get you the correct panel.

As far as the use of lower amperage wire and receptacles with a 50A breaker. I would not suggest this. Consider the following possibility:

You have 15A wire and receptacles connected to the 50A breaker. Right now you are drawing less than 15A so everything works. Later you add another 15A receptacle to the circuit and connect another tool. As long as you only run a single tool and it draws less than 15A everything is fine. Now you turn on both tools at the same time (Dust Collector and saw, or have a helper on the second tool) if each tool is drawing close to the 15A (let's say each draws 15A for simplicity) then you are drawing 30A total. But, the wire and receptacles are only rated at 15A. 30A over a 15A wire will cause it to overheat. You could end up with a fire in the wall.

Hope this helps.

Disclaimer: 30 years ago I worked as an industrial electrician. I am neither a licensed or union electrician and therefore cannot give you professional answers.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

When I install a 120v outlet with a 20 amp breaker and 12 ga wire, I use a 5-20, not a 5-15
I do the same thing but the average home I go into has 15 amp receptacles. These probably save the contractor 10 cents each. I use the biggest and best I can afford or find. Most GFCI receptacles are 15 amp but I found some 20 amp and bought a carton of them. All the 110V receptacles in my shop are GFCI protected.

Moriartii, I am also envisioning removing the receptacle and installing a CB panel. I think that is what was suggested and it should be fine. There are different procedures for wiring a sub panel. There is also the argument that sub panel is not in the NEC and that is also correct. It is still a sub panel. Follow those procedures. It would probably be best to have the new panel installed then you could wire your new receptacles from there. Shouldn't be too expensive. I saw a small house with a bad panel this week. They installed a 100 amp paneland tied in all the circuits for about $650. I thought that was very reasonable. New panel and breakers installed.


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## moriartii (Jun 21, 2012)

I appreciate all the feedback.
After, also talking to a coworker who wired his shop, the sub panel is the way to go.
I am going to look for a 60 amp panel with a couple of breakers. Feed the panel with the wire going to the removed receptacle. Then come out of the panel with the grey conduit to the receptacle for my TS and then maybe one other for something.
K


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

sounds like you are ont he right track. I was able to buy a new panel at HD I think. It was a very reasonable price and it came with some basic breakers. I bought enough to fill it and have them in storage. Might look into that also. I got a Square D. There are panels and then there are panel. I would be careful using a used panel. Not saying you can't or I haven't but there is something nice about a new panel and breakers.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Yep, you'll be good to go…and this (the subpanel) will work out a lot better over the long run


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## moriartii (Jun 21, 2012)

In looking at Home Depot, it appears I can get a 100 amp four circuit panel pretty cheap. I assume that would be fine since the main panel is smaller than the sub panel in amperage?
K


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

The sub panel will still be controlled by the 50A breaker in the main panel. Should work fine.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Yep, that'll do it. BTW, you mentioned the guy was looking to see if it was copper or aluminum that was installed. Nice to know, but if it's sized for 50 amps, it doesn't really matter which it is.


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## moriartii (Jun 21, 2012)

Revised plan of attack after looking at what I have and some research.

I realized I have a dedicated 110v 20amp single outlet on the wall that gives me the most space.

I have the yellow copper Romex date code 11/30/06 that is 12-2 wg. My TS needs a minimum 220v 15 amp circuit.

My plan now is to swap the receptacle for a Nema 5-20 and change the single pole breaker to a double pole 20 amp.

I also assume I have an Eaton CH housing because it says Eaton - Cuttler Hammer.

Cheers
K


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

Just make sure nothing else is on that line, disconnect and cap off anything downstream of it and be POSITIVE that nothing is upstream closer to the panel in the basement. Why not go through with the subpanel?


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## JesseTutt (Aug 15, 2012)

I am not sure that 12-2 romex meets code for a 220v circuit.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

I don't think the Romex will meet code either but I am not sure. Talk to the electrician. I don't want to smell smoke from your direction.


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## moriartii (Jun 21, 2012)

From eveything I an discern, 12-2 wg meets code for 220v 20 amp.

I am very positive that there is nothing else on the line between the outlet and panel, straight shot dedicated.

Not going with the sub panel because that just seems to be a pita for a single piece of equipment. I could even rewire the TS for 110 but I understand that 220 is a little bit more effecient.

I also verified that I do have a CH box.
Cheers
K


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## Lifesaver2000 (Nov 17, 2009)

Sounds like you came up with a good plan. If you know what you are doing, it is just a ten or fifteen minute job to make the change you want to make.

As far as the 12/2g for 240v, that should work just fine. A NEMA 6 connector needs two hots and ground (not neutral) so electrically that romex will work fine. The only worry from what I have read as far the code is concerned has to do with the color coding of the wires, but I believe you can fix that by just marking the white wire with another color (red or black).


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## moriartii (Jun 21, 2012)

Lifesaver-
That is what I had planned to do regarding marking both ends. I am also thinking about installing a twist lock so that a future homeowner wont plug into it incorrectly.

Cheers
K


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## Lifesaver2000 (Nov 17, 2009)

I am not sure I understand that last (but I could be missing something…). Why would a twist lock be needed? A NEMA 6-20r (which is the correct receptacle for a 240v 20 amp circuit) can only accept a 6-15 or 6-20 plug I am pretty sure, so how exactly would a person plug in to it incorrectly?

It is just that the twist lock stuff seems to be a bit more expensive when I have looked at them, and at least in my area are harder to find at the smaller local hardware stores.

I'll say that I have a 6-20 outlet, and a 6-15 plug on my saw, and it sure never shows any signs of wanting to pull out of the wall. I have to actually pull pretty hard when I want to unplug it.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Your current plan is fine, and you can always do the subpanel later if needed. Note what Lifesaver said about the twist lock…they are more expensive and aren't needed. The plugs and outlets are made so you can't plug the wrong thing in. Now get sawing…..


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

He isn't saying a twist lock is needed. He wants to install a twist lock to prevent people from plugging table lamps or radios into the 220V. At least that is what I got from the conversation.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

One thing people fail to do, electricians included, is to LABEL THINGS. It would be nice if you could take off a cover plate and the breaker number is written on the back. Just put a big 220 ONLY on it. Although some idiot would think it will make their radio twice as loud.


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## moriartii (Jun 21, 2012)

Yes I was thinking about the twist lock for safety purposes, a future home owner wouldnt accidently plug into the socket. After seeing the Nema 6-20, I went with that instead.

I am getting there. A couple more questions:

1: I assume the outlet wires up with the white and ground wire on the two terminal screw side. The black wires up on the single terminal screw side?

2: Any best practices for placing the wires on the breaker side? Black on top, white on bottom or vice versa?

Cheers
K


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

1- the ground should go on the green screw. The white and black should go on opposite sides. If one of these is white or lighter in color than the other, you probably have a 120 volt outlet, not a 240 volt.

2- it doesn't matter. They are usually black on top, but the white needs to be marked black or red.


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## moriartii (Jun 21, 2012)

I have the ground on the green screw. The white is on a gold screw on the same side as the ground. The black is on the other gold screw on the other side.

Will do on the marking, am going to heat shrink some red on the white wire.

Cheers
K


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

That'll work ;-)


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## moriartii (Jun 21, 2012)

Got it done and all wired up.
Ran the saw for a few minutes and I am very happy!!!
Thank you all for your help!!!!
Cheers
K


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

thus begins the career of another woodworking amateur electrician. congrats on successfully getting it done. electricity can be fun and most of the residential stuff isn't terribly complicated. scanning the prior posts, i didn't see this tip mentioned, so i'll pass it along. from the best electrician i ever met, remember to* ALWAYS*, whether working on 110V or 220v circuits, connect the ground wire first, on 110v circuits, connect the neutral (white) wire next and *ALWAYS* connect the hot wire(s) last. when disconnecting circuits, reverse the previous order so the ground wire is *ALWAYS* the last wire disconnected.


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