# What did I do wrong with this setup?



## BB1 (Jan 29, 2016)

Finally had some time to get in the shop and wanted to get a start on a little organizer box for in our kitchen. I want to use mitered corners and so set up my saw with the blade at 45. I did a few practice cuts on plywood and then some similar hickory to ensure I had my placement correct. I set up a little stop well before the blade so that I could ensure I was placing all the boards in the same location. When I went to run my first board for the project through, the cut off piece jammed in the throat plate and I still haven't been able to find it wherever it shot out in the shop (actually chipped the plate). Glad at least I know better than to stand directly behind the blade! As I settle and reflect - a custom plate would be the optimal with zero clearance. Is that the only way to safely do that type of a cut? Guessing the piece may have shifted given the blade pattern and chip on the cut? As always, thanks in advance (LJ are always helpful!!)

Some pictures of my setup and the chip on the plate


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

Your setup leaves the cutoff piece dancing on the whirling blade. How about switching sides so the cutoff piece is under the angled blade, so that gravity can help.


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

(duplicate post)


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

I've seen people remove the throat plate altogether. I tried it once but got a lot of tearout So I made a zero clearance insert.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

I was having problems with the blade shifting a tiny bit from the torque of the motor starting. I ended up building a jig that holds the piece at 45 degrees to the blade while I slide it pass the blade set 90 degrees to the table. I did find that a thin kerf blade had some flex and caused a bow in the cut. I eventually went to using a 7 1/4" full kerf blade to keep straight line cut.


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## BB1 (Jan 29, 2016)

Actually thought of that but talked myself out of it thinking the piece shouldn't be "trapped under" the blade?



> Your setup leaves the cutoff piece dancing on the whirling blade. How about switching sides so the cutoff piece is under the angled blade, so that gravity can help.
> 
> - Phil32


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

> Your setup leaves the cutoff piece dancing on the whirling blade. How about switching sides so the cutoff piece is under the angled blade, so that gravity can help.
> 
> - Phil32


+1 Flip the board over and move the Incra to the right hand slot so the board is on top of the blade. You don't need the Rockler thin strip for that cut.


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## BB1 (Jan 29, 2016)

Will give the opposite side a try. The Rockler device was just used to give me a reference point.

Thanks for all the responses. Still in the learning phase…and keeping safety as my #1



> Your setup leaves the cutoff piece dancing on the whirling blade. How about switching sides so the cutoff piece is under the angled blade, so that gravity can help.
> 
> - Phil32
> 
> ...


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

Yes, flip the board over, use the other miter slot, lose the thin rip jig and move the rip fence way out of the way. You may have damaged your blade as well.


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## BB1 (Jan 29, 2016)

Thanks…hadn't thought about the blade (figures…is a new one with little use so far).



> Yes, flip the board over, use the other miter slot, lose the thin rip jig and move the rip fence way out of the way. You may have damaged your blade as well.
> 
> - bondogaposis


I like this idea too - do you have a picture of your jig?



> I was having problems with the blade shifting a tiny bit from the torque of the motor starting. I ended up building a jig that holds the piece at 45 degrees to the blade while I slide it pass the blade set 90 degrees to the table. I did find that a thin kerf blade had some flex and caused a bow in the cut. I eventually went to using a 7 1/4" full kerf blade to keep straight line cut.
> 
> - BurlyBob


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## BB1 (Jan 29, 2016)

Just viewed this and thought I would add the link as I found it really helpful on this topic:


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## BB1 (Jan 29, 2016)

Tried opposite setup, freshly sharpened blade (will get the other checked out), and happened again. Think I'm done until I can get a zero clearance setup or jig as BurlyBob noted. At least I could find the cutoff this time!


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## sawdust1whisperer (Nov 11, 2014)

Watched the YouTube video you suggested. It had a lot of good tips.
Try adding a plywood sacrificial fence to your Incra miter gauge.


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## Kazooman (Jan 20, 2013)

The picture you show with the cutoff you found shows that it was the leading edge of the piece that caught on the blade. I think another issue might be that the blade is extended too far out of the table. When the cut is complete at the front edge of the blade the entire cutoff is still even with the blade and the upward turning back of the blade caught the end of the cutoff.Try lowering it until the top of the work piece is just at the gullets. My guess is that your first setup might have even worked with the blade lower.


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

I think the fact that you're cutting *hickory* is also a consideration. The photo shows it to be brittle.


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## PaulDoug (Sep 26, 2013)

Wouldn't a backer board attached to you miter gauge that extends past the waste piece help in two ways, reduce or eliminate tearout at the end of your cut and push the the cut off piece until it is completely cut. Or is that even more dangerous?


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## Kazooman (Jan 20, 2013)

> Wouldn t a backer board attached to you miter gauge that extends past the waste piece help in two ways, reduce or eliminate tearout at the end of your cut and push the the cut off piece until it is completely cut. Or is that even more dangerous?
> 
> - PaulDoug


I agree a backer board on the miter gauge would be a great addition for the reasons you mentioned, especially the tear-out.

Personally, I don't like cutting mitered corners on my table saw with the blade tilted. It always seems to be too putzy to get the angle dialed in just right, in spite of having accurately set the stops ages ago before many vibrations, accumulated sawdust, etc. I always make test cuts and I admit to being a bit anal-retentive about getting the angles just right. How about some nice dovetails for that kitchen organizer box?

As far as the cut-off kick-back problem is concerned, I can imagine a backer board that is about four feet wide and three feet tall. Let's see a kick back get to me through that barrier!


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## BB1 (Jan 29, 2016)

Hickory and dovetails?...now that sounds even more challenging!

Much thanks for additional insights. Not sure what my next step will be…just knew today I needed to step away (at least getting smarter not to continue if frustrated). Vacuumed up the sawdust and went for a walk with the dogs.


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

This video for a cross cut miter sled popped up in my YouTube suggestions the other day.

Here's a still image of what it looks like









Not sure if it helps or not but looked like a handy sled to have around.


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## BB1 (Jan 29, 2016)

Hmmmm….interesting. Thanks for posting that.



> This video for a cross cut miter sled popped up in my YouTube suggestions the other day.
> 
> Here s a still image of what it looks like
> 
> ...


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## LeeRoyMan (Feb 23, 2019)

> I think the fact that you re cutting *hickory* is also a consideration.
> 
> - Phil32


So it does matter what the wood species is? lol

Quotes:
The name doesn't tell you if it's suitable for a woodworking project.
-
I discovered I could carve this design without ever knowing the exact species.
-
Is there any woodworking process in which knowing the wood species is required.
-
What aspect of your proposed use of this wood requires that you know the species
-
Would knowing the name of the wood change the way you work it?
-
Does it really help to know a name for the wood you plan to use?


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

Hickory is the exception. LOL


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

+1 extended backer board would help control the cut off.

+1 45° ZCI would prevent cut off being sucked into saw possibly creating a problem

+1 Never stand with body directly behind the cut.

Those would be my solutions? But #IAMAKLUTZ
YMMV


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## CWWoodworking (Nov 28, 2017)

I would use a miter saw.


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

I use a jig for all my 45º´s that saddles the fence, and the blade is at 90º. You can see a version in my projects, if you wish. Its the one I use for mitre splines also. Safe, effective, precise. and easily swap out the backer piece if you dont glue it.


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## bc4393 (Apr 10, 2015)

+1 on a backer board. Your leaving yourself open to the cutoff flexing and bouncing with the harmonics of the blade and when you get to a certain point its going to bounce off the blade and break off before you have it cut. OR maybe you're hitting a harder piece of the wood. Could you do it with a softer wood or a sharper blade? Maybe. But why chance it? Pic for reference. I'd 2 way tape a board to the miter gage that's longer and taller than the blade if it were me. A quick 5 minute fix and you can use your existing setup. An another note you should be cutting with the scrap under the blade when you have it at a 45 and not using a sled. It safer to have those teeth pointing away from your hands and arms if you get into trouble.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

What everyone says makes sense and maybe I've just been lucky. I cut the same way you did and with a splitter/riving-knife the offcut should sit on it and not kick back… should…

Just a few questions,

Is the knife/spliter too far back from the blade. 
is the knife/spliter out of alignment (eg. if you run a thin kerf and its aligned for a "normal" blade… or vice-versa… however, even this doesn't make sense to me as the wood should have passed the blade when it dropped… oh, oh… just a thought… maybe if the blade was raised higher, the cutting teeth would be more "vertical" with less blade trailing underneath to potentially catch if the offcut drops/moves… just a thought.
Finally is your mitre at a perfect 90°. Don't ask me what a dodgy alignment would do, but I'm guessing it wouldn't make the job easier.

As I said, maybe I have just been lucky. I don't have a spltter/knife for bevels, however, I do use ZCIs for each angle… I usually use a sled with a new dedicated ZCI "skins" for each new angle.


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## Jim Jakosh (Nov 24, 2009)

Hi Barbara,
You can make a very simple sled to make those 45 degree cuts and the cut off piece will just sit on top of the sled and you can brush it away with a stick and it will not get caught in the blade. I like cutting miters that way because the parts stays still in the sled and there is less chance for movement during the cut for a very straight miter. It is also great for mitering small pieces accurately!

Also you can hold the part in the same attitude you do there with the angled point down on the surface for the best way to overall gauge the length.



















Cheers, Jim


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## BB1 (Jan 29, 2016)

Nice sled!! Thanks for sharing the pictures. Looks much safer.


> Hi Barbara,
> You can make a very simple sled to make those 45 degree cuts and the cut off piece will just sit on top of the sled and you can brush it away with a stick and it will not get caught in the blade. I like cutting miters that way because the parts stays still in the sled and there is less chance for movement during the cut for a very straight miter. It is also great for mitering small pieces accurately!
> 
> Also you can hold the part in the same attitude you do there with the angled point down on the surface for the best way to overall gauge the length.
> ...


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

Can you rip a board @45 using the fence with it binding or burning.
If not your top needs to be shimmed in the front or the back depending on if the blade binds on the beginning of the cut or the end.


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## bndawgs (Oct 21, 2016)

You could probably lay down some painter's tape for a quick and dirty ZCI to see if that helps with the cut


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## BB1 (Jan 29, 2016)

Which is safer/better/typical…having the cutoff piece fall to the side "under" (as in bc4393's post #25) or "over" (as in Jim's post #27). Does it matter if using a jig vs. miter gauge? Guessing with a backer of any sort, this may be less important? Of course, with a jig like in post #18 that wouldn't be an issue at all. I like to be on the left side of my blade as my off switch is there (and like bring able to hit it off with my leg as needed).


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## Fiver (Jan 14, 2020)

> Wouldn t a backer board attached to you miter gauge that extends past the waste piece help in two ways, reduce or eliminate tearout at the end of your cut and push the the cut off piece until it is completely cut. Or is that even more dangerous?
> 
> - PaulDoug


Was basically going to reply saying exactly this but instead I'll just quote it.

Speaking from experience, hickory makes for a real…interesting…wood to work with when it comes to miter cuts. I made a bunch of hexagon shelves for our living room about 6 months ago and learned this the hard way, lol.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> Wouldn t a backer board attached to you miter gauge that extends past the waste piece help in two ways, reduce or eliminate tearout at the end of your cut and push the the cut off piece until it is completely cut. Or is that even more dangerous?
> - PaulDoug
> 
> Was basically going to reply saying exactly this but instead I ll just quote it.
> - Fiver


Was basically going to reply saying exactly this but instead I ll just quote it.

I also use the *Incra Mitre1000SE* which is pimped out with a sacrificial fence. For mitre cuts (when too lazy to drag out my mitre sled), I load the tablesaw to with the appropriate ZCI,








(for all my critics, that is not a *sideways* picture but orientation of the writing)... and I advance the fence to support the offcut,








The extension acts as a ZCI to prevent tear out and makes a handy alignment mark,









After I finish with my mitre cuts, I return the timber fence to it's original position.


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## BB1 (Jan 29, 2016)

Quick update. I finally was able to sneak in a bit of time in the shop. I used a backer on my miter gauge and also resorted to using some blue tape for "zero clearance" as cut off pieces did stick in the opening two times in the two spots (just turned off the saw - no drama of flying pieces!)









Cuts turned out ok so this is a start on the organizer (nothing glued etc…lot to do yet).









For the future I will look to add an actual zero clearance insert. I think the board that I added to my miter gauge seemed to work fine (just used some double-sided tape)....although there are some jigs and sleds in the various posts that I would like to try as well. Limited time lately makes some of those to be added to my wish list.

Thanks again for all the LJ that posted comments and suggestions. Greatly appreciated


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