# Question for cabinet makers, adjacent wall clearance for cabinet doors to open



## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Adding base cabinets to a new addition in my workshop.

After building the casings and before adding the doors, I almost forgot to take into consideration for the base cabinet door opening on the adjacent wall, the cabinets are going to be frameless full overlay double doors using 35mm European 110 degree full overlay hinges. I plan on adding pull out trays behind the doors, door handles are 3/4" high away from the door.

In the picture will show how the cabinets are sitting in the workshop corner. Using 3/4" ply for the walls, the end cabinet is up against the wall without any space, my question is since I still have plenty of room to slide the cabinets over will I need too? Will this be in conflict for the door opening and if so how much will I need to move the cabinets over for door and the top drawer to open properly also allowing the slide out tray to come out of the cabinet.

Thanks


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## albachippie (Feb 2, 2010)

The hinge itself will be your deciding factor regarding the trays. The door will sit in to the opening of the cabinet only by around a 1/2" max. If it were mine, I would keep them off the wall by about 2", just to allow the door to open to the full 110 degrees with your handle. With the rest of your doors, I would be tempted to use 170 degree hinges, so you can open them fully. This will give better access to your pull out trays.

Regarding the trays, you'll need to be aware of the position of the hinge in relation to the position of your drawer. These hinges are quite big, but very good if you take your time to fit them well. I have fitted a LOT of them over the years!

Hope this makes sense and helps in some way,

Garry


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Thanks Garry

With the 170 degree hinges would that move both the door and the hinges out of the path on the trays? No narrowing of the trays nor fillers for the sliders to move the sliders away from the hinges?

Thanks


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

Like he ^ said, I'd pull it over an inch or two so the door can open beyond 90 degrees, especially if you plan on putting a knob on the door. Or pull it over about 6 inches so the center opening is directly under the window and use that space to store some scrap sheet goods.


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## Jim Jakosh (Nov 24, 2009)

Hi Randy. I would draw it out from an above view to see the path of the door and the hinge. From that you can see the room needed. I often mock things up like that by mounting the hinge or pivot in a coupe pieces of scrap to prove it out. you want to be sure you have the clearance before fastening anything permanently.

Jim


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## albachippie (Feb 2, 2010)

I would echo Jims comment from above. Cut your hinges into some scrap timber. That will give you an accurate idea of the swing room needed.
Regarding the 170deg, your choice of hinge, as you are aware, are fixed to the face, and, unlike conventional butt hinges, have a lot of mechanical parts, so they are going to encroach into the unit to a degree. See the pic from my desk at work. This is a 170deg hinge pretty much fully open









Hope this helps,
Garry


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Ok now that I see a picture of the 70 degree I have these installed on a cabinet in my kitchen,

As for as centering the unit on the window I am going to consider that option, I have a 4' formica counter top section I was going to put in the opposite corner so will have to see if room is still an available , I was going to leave the extra open space under the Formica open for Shop vac and other storage, might still have room.

Thanks all.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

I went out and took measurements and like dhazelton suggestion of moving over 6", that will work and will also resolve my issue with cabinet door, the cabinet unit is 8' long and the wall is just under 12' long which will mean I'll lose 6" of work space on top making it 90" but that's not going to break me, as I mentioned above the 4' formica top will move over that much more on top and occupy that 6" and will be solely for my box pieces mating and gluing not a work top.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I think moving it over will be good also centering the base cabinet below the window would look good.


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## BinghamtonEd (Nov 30, 2011)

You could move it out and put a set of narrow shelves or something between the last cabinet and the wall. Or, you could get a restrictor clip for the hinges (if you're using a brand that makes them, Blum has them) that limit the opening to 86 degrees. This would however probably require you to change your pull-out design. I agree with others, move them over, you could center them under the window and probably have enough room for the 110-degree hinges to open.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

Another option would be to put in a row of drawers in the left bay instead of the swing open doors.


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## Earlextech (Jan 13, 2011)

With Euro cabinets there should always be a 1 1/2" filler against the wall!


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Bondo, yes I thought about drawers but I think I can get more stuff in a tray than in drawers but I could be wrong there, plus it'd be less sheet ply I'd have to use in making the drawers, I've already got the doors cut but they'll need some finish cuts to make them fit.

Thanks once again everyone, I knew I could count on you all  Love this site.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

I like the changes, thanks again.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Randy,

Looks like you got some great information. Mock ups always help in designing new pieces. Kitchen cabinet layouts usually have an end panel in base cabinets to allow for door openings. How far to the right can you move your base cabinets? Could hold a waste collector? Or a small shop vac?

You're movin on!


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Tom, I got it now, yep that's what that space is for, the shop vac and a small air compressor and what ever else I can cram in there


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Like your new picture! LOL!

I plan on making Wall cabinets using all the extra construction materials I've gathered over the years(occupying shop space) in some creative way (I hope).

Before screwing up some furniture. LOL!


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> Another option would be to put in a row of drawers in the left bay instead of the swing open doors.
> 
> - bondogaposis


This is the only good answer so far. Pullout trays behind double door is a huge pain in the a**. I'm not talking about the construction but the functionality of using them. After a while you'll tired of opening2 door so you can pull out a tray.

A tray is really just a drawer with low sides behind doors. When I build my last kitchen every base cabinet that could be was a drawer unit. The wife and I are very happy with that arraignment. It makes access so much easier and quicker.

How do I know this. I made the same mistake you're about to make.










The remedy for my kitchen.










O course it just my opinion.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

AlaskaGuy, that is a good opinion and a very good point as well, hmmmm I'll put thought into that.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Actually that will almost be a wash in cost, hardware Vrs another sheet of ply, it's less hardware and I already have all the sliders from my old bench that I tore down when the addition was being built, I have enough for 13 drawers.

Would another sheet of 1/2 cabinet grade ply be enough in strength?


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## Daruc (Apr 20, 2015)

Your wall cabinets seem awfully high?


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Woodust, they'll be 36" once the top is on.


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## Earlextech (Jan 13, 2011)

Uppers should be 54" off floor.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> Uppers should be 54" off floor.
> 
> - Earlextech


54'' is a standard height off the floor for kitchen cabinets. I a shop that might not be ideal. If you're going to set a miter saw or some other tool on the counter top 54 might be to low. I have some upper storage in my shop that are about 8 foot off the floor.

I really depends on usage. 54 in not a hard and fast in in a shop situation. Some times in custom cabinet building a client will asked for something different. Tall people, short people. I did a kitchen of a short lady and the counter tops were 2 inches lower that standard and so was the uppers. That the nice thing about building your own. You can do what you want.


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

A lot of advice given here. If it were me, I would put in a 3 inch filler strip and be done with it. That should allow plenty of room for the door to open more than 90 degrees before it hits the wall.


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## Earlextech (Jan 13, 2011)

You can do what you want. And you are correct in correcting me. 54" is standard kitchen height.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Oh yes Woodust and Sam, they are a bit high, I wasn't paying attention to your post since I was focused on the base cabinets, the wall cabinets are high but I'm OK with that, I have a step stool in the shop, I had to put them up high in order to clear the window for cross shelving, I plan on adding cleats to the sides of both cabinets and the wall then stretch shelves across attaching to both wall cabinets.

The wall cabinets aren't screwed to the studs like a typical wall cabinet, I instead used Norm Abram's cleat hanging method this way if I ever want to take them down I simply lift them off the cleats. I used 45 degree bevels.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

I'm going to go with AlaskaGuy's advise and subside the doors for drawers, my old work station had all drawers so I'll stick with that, I never considered the task of opening the doors to pull out trays when drawers are no different and one less step to preform.


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

> The wall cabinets aren t screwed to the studs like a typical wall cabinet, I instead used Norm Abram s cleat hanging method this way if I ever want to take them down I simply lift them off the cleats. I used 45 degree bevels.
> 
> - Blackie_


I did the same with the French cleats, but I did run a couple of cabinet screws into the studs…just because I could. If they need to me moved, I'll back the screws out and move 'em. In the meantime, they aren't going anywhere.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

The sliding low profile drawers with cabinet doors would be a good place to put power tools. drawers facilitate ease of getting way in the back and the doors may help hiding the clutter.

Nice thread evolving here.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Tom, my plan is to allow 1/8" reveals on the drawers fronts.


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## Daruc (Apr 20, 2015)

I like the drawers instead of doors. They can also double as steps to get into those wall cabinets, lol


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

My wife insisted on drawers for the kitchen redo. We are getting too old to be digging in the cabinets behind the doors. She helped build 'em!


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Randy,

Sounds like you got a plan. Can't wait to see the results. Maybe I can steal an idea or two.


> ?


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## albachippie (Feb 2, 2010)

Enjoy reading this thread. Always interesting to hear other's views.

The 54" wall unit height. Is that not to do with the accepted height of base units plus 3 rows of 6"tiles, more than a hard and fast rule? I know that tall larder units (at least in the UK) are built to an overall height to allow for this, but, surely in a shop environment, it's whatever works?! Just a thought!

Garry


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