# Really bummed about my new Delta T2 30 fence



## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

I wanted to upgrade the fence on my old Sears Craftsman 10" table saw.
I would buy a new saw but don't have the money or room for a really good one.
I read a lot of positive reviews about people who upgraded to the Delta fence so I decided to get it based on that.
If it wasn't for the web site I found that explains in detail how to fit it to a Sears saw I don't think I could have figured it out or even wanted to attempt it myself. So after spending a good day of tedious work lining up it to my saw and drilling holes through thick steel I finally got the front and back rails mounted. When I put the fence on for the final adjustments I found the fence was way out of square with the miter slot in my table saw. No amounting of adjusting the two screws would even get it close. Checking with a square its pretty obvious that fence was welded crooked onto the bracket that slides on the guide tube so it looks like I will have to be sending it back.
Also the locking handle for the fence only goes down about 45 degrees, my understanding is it is supposed to go down all the way to the vertical position. The surfaces that the fence slides has some sort of glossy slick paint on it but is anything but smooth, it has a lot of ripples in it. Now I am regretting buying this fence and think I should have spent the extra money for the Vega 40 which comes predrilled for Craftsman saws, boy would that have saved me a lot of trouble. Unfortunately now that I have already drilled the rails I doubt that they will take it back.


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

Touch up the holes you drilled with a little paint, and send that piece of junk back…...no need to mention the holes.


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## Flipper01 (Oct 30, 2014)

Or send it back the way it is along with your story and see if they even come close to the integrity they say they have in their commercials. I doubt it but you never know. Craftsmanship these days just isn't what it used to be. That's what makes this board and it's people so great. Craftsmanship. You either have it or you don't.


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## ElChe (Sep 28, 2014)

Or see if you can get a replacement for the poorly welded fence assembly? I have a biesemeyer on my unisaw and I fiddled with it endlessly to get it to work. Not real easy to adjust to make it perpendicular for sure. I still like it it I wish I could bill Delta for all my time frankensteining the fence to work right. Grrrrr.


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## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

> Touch up the holes you drilled with a little paint, and send that piece of junk back…...no need to mention the holes.
> 
> - unbob


Sounds good to me.


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## jacquesr (Jul 3, 2014)

Call Delta and ask for Keith.
I have had stellar service form him.


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## hotbyte (Apr 3, 2010)

That's a bummer. I upgraded to same fence a while back and it is huge improvement. Hope you get yours resolved/replaced.


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## 6mmBR (Sep 29, 2014)

I went with the Vega a month or so ago for my 113 saw. The front bolted right on, but I had to drill two holes for the back tube steel. No big deal, but just wanted to mention it.

Great fence. I almost went with the Delta myself, but changed at the last minute. Sounds like it was a good move.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Ask for a new tube and head.

I put a sawstop tfa-pfa for $144 on my craftsman. It's pretty good too.


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## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

After some more research and thought I think I will stay with Delta T2 and ask for a new fence.
My reasoning as follows:

I already invested time and effort installing it.

The 30" capacity is what I want. 40" would be more than I need and space I don't have.

The Vega Pro 40 is $100 more and has its own set of problems / complaints.

Sending the whole thing back will be a major PIA.

There are many good reviews on the T2 so I believe it can be a good fence although I am not too happy right now.


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## Tedstor (Mar 12, 2011)

Sorry to hear about the issue. Getting the T2 installed and adjusted was a major PITA on my 113. Once I finally had it tweaked, all was well. Been using it for two years now and couldn't be happier. Once Delta finally takes care of you, I think you'll be a happy camper for years to come.


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## Woodbum (Jan 3, 2010)

Return the Delta and get an Incra TS-LS. I put one (older model TSIII) on my '85 model craftsman and then moved it to my Griz 1023. Extremely accurate, highly repeatable; and very easy to install and fine tune on both saws.. You won't be sorry.


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## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

> Return the Delta and get an Incra TS-LS. I put one (older model TSIII) on my 85 model craftsman and then moved it to my Griz 1023. Extremely accurate, highly repeatable; and very easy to install and fine tune on both saws.. You won t be sorry.
> 
> - Woodbum


Didn't even consider that one. Incra makes cool stuff but its out of my budget and my table saw is only worth maybe $50. So even a $190 fence seems extravagant.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

As others suggested contact Delta. I upgraded this year to the T2 onto a Delta contractors saw and had no issues. I did reverse the handle on the fence to go the other way. (It was a simple matter flip it over and you will see.) Once it was trued up to the saw it has worked without issue.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> Also the locking handle for the fence only goes down about 45 degrees
> - Joel_B


I believe that is correct, won't swear to it though.


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## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

So I received the replacement fence from Delta and this one is straight, but the locking handle still doesn't work right. It doesn't lock it just gets tight and the fence already moved on me in the middle of a cut. Here is the solution I came up with does anybody else









have this problem and perhaps a better solution?


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## WhoMe (Jul 9, 2009)

Sorry to hear you had some issues with your T2. 
I have had the T2 on my 113 saw for a couple years. I didn't have any installation issues or setup issues with mine. 
Yea, not a fan of the locking handle but when locked, the fence does not move on me. My handle goes a little lower than yours but IMO, it is more of a friction lock instead of a positive lock. I think that could have been designed better. I think the eccentric piece should have had a much longer engagement ramp than it does. 
BUT, the T2 is WAAAAYYYY better than the piece of scrap metal that came on the saw.


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

Hey Joel,
I don't have the T2, an older Biesmeyer. That fence locks on three points, the handle, and two pads on the back side. Those pads have a set screw behind them for adjustment-if the T2 is the same, the set screws can be backed off a small equal amount until the lock handle drops down in the right position.


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## davidroberts (Nov 8, 2008)

What a pain. A very temporary solution at best. I first thing I would do is trip over the weight. Is it possible the fence support opposite the locking handle is to close to the table so that you can't get a full lock down? In other words can you move the support closer to the end of the fence, even if you need to drill new holes on the fence underside? It seem the locking cam just needs a fraction of an inch more travel to lock down securely. Most photos show the locking handle parallel to the table when locked down. You may can get that little bit of distance by adjusting the back support horizontally, away from the locking handle. You may have looked into this already.

Here is a link to an "Instructable" from a gentleman that felt you pain retrofitting a C-man saw.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Retrofitting-A-Delta-T2-Fence-to-a-Craftsman-Table/

Scroll down to the bottom of the first page to see some photos of the rear fence support. In the first set, the poster has unknowingly installed the rear bar upside down. Here is a photo from another poster trying to explain to correct installation to the first. The photo shows how the support could be too close to the back of table, and not allow full travel of the locking handle.










Good luck. Given the experience of others, and it seems the retrofit issues are not uncommon, you should be happy with your decision to stick it out and make it work, soon!


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Joel - Aren't there some adjustment screws on the inside of the t-square that you can back off a bit to allow the handle to fully engage?


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## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

Thanks for all the suggestions.
The problem is not the back rail or the adjustment screws.
I tried backing out the adjustment screws one full turn and now the fence is so loose it wobbles back and forth and doesn't slide probably, yet the locking handle still doesn't go down far enough. After waiting on hold for quite a while I spoke with a tech at the factory. Well he wan't very tech but told me the handle should go all the way down past horizontal. I told him mine wouldn't even go close to horizontal and asked him how much force should it take and he said to push hard. So I pushed pretty hard to the point that the guide tube started deflecting and I felt like something would bend or break if I pushed any harder and I could get it just about to horizontal and it wouldn't spring back but I am not satisfied or comfortable using it this way. He also mentioned that the replacement fence that was sent to me is a T3 fence but it should work fine on T2 rails and everything is the same. I did notice the replacement was a different color and the locking handle is a different shape. So they basically changed it cosmetically and maybe its produced in a cheaper factory and call it the T3 like its some kind of improvement. I am intimately familiar with how a cam lock works being that they are used on bicycle wheels that I have been using for the past 40 years. If it is adjusted too tight it won't lock and will spring open which is exactly what is happening on my fence. If it adjusted properly the it will tighten as the cam reaches the point at which it is no longer pushing out as the handle rotated.
If I take the fence off the table the handle will go about 45 degrees past horizontal at which there is a hard stop provided by the bracket that the handle is mounted to. This is where the locking position should as this is where the cam stops pushing out and where Delta told it should be. I am convinced that Delta's design and/or manufacturing tolerance are way off and that they do not have any quality inspection during manufacturing to ensure the product is working properly before sending it to a customer. The tech I talked to could not suggest a solution other than to call the local Delta service center which I did. The person I spoke with there was absolutely worthless. So as I see it I am going to have to come up with my solution:

Try the cam / handle from the crooked fence that I have not sent back yet on the new fence. I do remember it had a similar problem.

Modify the cam on a grinder. Probably not practical since it is heavy steel and I don't have a grinder except at work so I won't be able to know how much to take off.

Slot the hole that holds the bolt that the handle pivots on to get it further away from the guide tube. This might the easiest. I'm thinking a Dremel here, but if something goes wrong my warranty will be void.

Make my own cam out of wood, more work than I wanted to do but I think it can be done.

This whole experience has left me bitter about Delta products. They make things that look impressive but seem to have shoddy design and workmanship. I am sure like most everything they are subcontracting their manufacturing off shore, but they should still have some quality control in place to oversee it. I think this explains it pretty good:

http://www.woodmagazine.com/blogs/woodworking-blog/2011/01/14/new-delta-ceo-says-customers-wont-notice-the-transition/


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

You've probably already checked, but it's worth mentioning….many of these t-square type fences have a steel tongue that hangs down between the cam and rail….sometimes that tongue ends up on top of the rail…worth checking if you haven't already. If it's still not right, I'd make them send me a whole new fence and rails.


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## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

> You ve probably already checked, but it s worth mentioning….many of these t-square type fences have a steel tongue that hangs down between the cam and rail….sometimes that tongue ends up on top of the rail…worth checking if you haven t already. If it s still not right, I d make them send me a whole new fence and rails.
> 
> - knotscott


Yep I noticed that happens and made sure its between the cam and rail. I emailed Delta customer care expressing my dissatisfaction, we will see what happens next.


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## Joel_B (Aug 14, 2014)

So after playing with the locking mechanism some more I learned some things.
I think the force required to lock the fence will cause some deflection of the guide tube and there is no way around that and is not necessarily bad. The cam mechanism that came with the new T3 fence just plain doesn't work, the cam is too big and the handle is cheap plastic and screwed into the cam instead of welded like the T2. I took the cam mechanism from the T2 fence and the cam and mounting bolt are slightly smaller. Still there is a limited amount of movement of the lever between the fence being too loose when it is the released in the up position and the locked position. If I adjust the screws on the fence with the lever in fully up position so that fence slides freely but isn't wobbly, then it is not possible to get the lever down far enough for the cam to stay locked. So I adjusted the screws so the fence is loose and wobbly in the up position but this can be mitigated by pushing the lever down slightly so the fence slides freely but doesn't wobble, then the lever than can be pushed down so it is horizontal which far enough for the cam to lock. Bottom line its a poorly designed mechanism and the solution would be to easily make the cam the proper size. I might try making my own cam out wood in future but I have too many other things to do and need to get on with life. I also sent an email to Deltas's customer care dept expressing my dissatisfaction but have not received a response. But then I noticed on their web site that it could take 7 to 10 days for them to respond. I guess the customer care person only must work one day a week.


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

Hopefully Delta can resolve it, for sure the fence you have is defective.


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## Dougcr (Sep 11, 2015)

I know I'm bring up an old thread. But I whave a few questions for TheFridge about how you mounted. The saw stop fence to your craftsman table saw . I'm thinking of getting the saw stop fence for my 113. Table saw 


> Ask for a new tube and head.
> 
> I put a sawstop tfa-pfa for $144 on my craftsman. It s pretty good too.
> 
> - TheFridge


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