# Who Actually Makes Table Saw Brands?



## GraceAndDrew (Oct 20, 2017)

I have learned so much from all of you on this site. One thing I am curious about is who and where table saws ( and probably other power tools) are manufactured.

I am wondering if there are really only a couple of manufacturers and the tools are just rebranded.

For example, I know Grizzly and Shopfox are basically the same company. Some of the saws are made in China and some in Taiwan. It seems the Grizzly models with white powdercoating are made in China and the green powdercoating models made in Taiwan. Not sure though.

I would love to see a chart like this:

Band Name-------Country of Origin------Actual Manufacturer (manufacturing company name)
Grizzly
Shopfox
Laguna
Powermatic
SawStop
Jet
Etc.

I guess I have a conspiracy theory that all powertools are made in the same factory.

Fill in any information if you have it.
Thanks!
Mark


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## PPK (Mar 8, 2016)

I've wondered the same thing… But I don't know the answer.

Here's another conspiracy theory: We never went to the moon. It's all fake.


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## PPK (Mar 8, 2016)

One thing I do know is that here in the US, we have a pretty rigid patent system / rules on branding, etc. However, it seems that other countries (China in particular) are shameless in outright copying the design of a leading US brand and undercutting costs by cheaper labor and poorer construction. One example that comes to mind is the Lie Nielsen tools and the Chinese version, the "Quangsheng". Do you REALLY think Quansheng came up with the design?? HAHA, nope, just got ahold of a LN and copied it. So, my GUESS is that the same thing is going on with the various tool look alikes, even ones that are made in the same country. (China)


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

An excellent question. I too would like to know. My 35 year old Jet cabinet saw was made in Taiwan and is a well built, accurate and reliable saw. I can't say the same for newer models and that goes for every other saw on the market. I would suspect, it's a carefully guarded secret by the brands involved. Country of origin is pretty obvious, but who actually makes it is a big ?. Most are made in China and if it is made in Taiwan, the company will make sure the consumer knows it.

One thing one must remember; China despite all it's bad press, can make as good and even better a product as anyone else in the world. The Chinese will make anything, but will put into the product ONLY what the customer wants to pay for; no more, no less. It's the requirement of the client to set down all the parameters needed and be willing to pay the cost. It's all a matter of contract negotiations for how much quality are you willing to pay for. You can see the difference between a cell phone sold by Apple and one sold by your local "Dollar" store.


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## GraceAndDrew (Oct 20, 2017)

Funny! I know people who would rather give their first born before giving up their Nielsen No. 62 but I never hear anyone brag about their Quangsheng!

Ok. Jet, Some Grizzly and therefore Shopfox are made in Taiwan. Same factory?

What about Powermatic, Baileigh Industrial (which looks very similar to Grizzly), Laguna, Delta, Sawstop?


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I have a theory that parts are done by different 
job shops and final painting and assembly is
done in a warehouse where brand representatives
oversee quality control.

I suspect the business is just so cost competitive
that you have foundries, plastic molders, machine
shops and so on bidding to do x number of parts
for such-and-such brand design.

I knew a guy who owned a factory in China and
he said they could make a wide range of items because
it was all manual labor oriented with little high-tech
machinery.


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## PPK (Mar 8, 2016)

For the record, I don't have any Quangsheng, but I do have a couple Lie Nielsens


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## GraceAndDrew (Oct 20, 2017)

I'm jealous!

I had Quengsheng once after an all you can eat buffet. Two days in the bathroom and I was fine!


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

Certainly if you look at a lot of tools made overseas, they seem very similar, often just the paint scheme and/or the switch style/placement.
My drill press is branded "CWI" but is basically a spray painted General International.


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## GraceAndDrew (Oct 20, 2017)

Very true. I know the Kobalt job site table saws (Lowes) are exactly the same as Delta. The Ridgid R4512 is the same as…well I can't remember but I know there is a brand/model that is exactly the same.

I suspect 2 or 3 manufacturers make them all.


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

Here ya go


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## richardchaos (May 12, 2017)

The ridged 4512 is the same things as the craftsman 


> Very true. I know the Kobalt job site table saws (Lowes) are exactly the same as Delta. The Ridgid R4512 is the same as…well I can t remember but I know there is a brand/model that is exactly the same.
> 
> I suspect 2 or 3 manufacturers make them all.
> 
> - GraceAndDrew


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## richardchaos (May 12, 2017)

I wonder where SAWSTOP is made and by who? Its also a question of who made the PARTS not the assembly of the machine.

All the PARTS could be made anywhere THEN assembled here. SO they call it American made.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Many of the castings are made in the same factory and assembled somewhere else. As mentioned, look close you will notice some distinct similarities between brands.

One example: take a look at the PM and Grizzly 20" planers. The are identical and according to Grizzly support, they are cast in the same factory. The only difference is electrics and the infeed/outfeed tables vs. rollers.

Quansheng - if I'm correct this is branded as WoodRiver by Woodcraft. I own several of them and they actually come pretty close to LN in performance.


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## GraceAndDrew (Oct 20, 2017)

No wonder Powermatic and Jet table saws look almost identical (like GMC and Chevy)...they are made by JPW Industries. Thanks Richard.


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## Schooby (Feb 26, 2017)

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard

Interesting, just read this for the first time. Seems more rigid than I thought it would be. Made in the USA means all parts for "virtually" all parts are made and assembled in the USA. These tools likely fall into the "assembled in the USA" category if they're making any USA claims.

Saw Stop is Privately owned, so it's not part of a larger conglomerate. Can't say about their manufacturing.. 


> I wonder where SAWSTOP is made and by who? Its also a question of who made the PARTS not the assembly of the machine.
> 
> All the PARTS could be made anywhere THEN assembled here. SO they call it American made.
> 
> - richardchaos


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## GraceAndDrew (Oct 20, 2017)

OK…I have to stop obsessing but I did find this as well. Geetech manufacturers many brands (or at least parts).


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## jimintx (Jan 23, 2014)

The chart is post #10 is interesting, and not surprising.

Would someone with sharper vision please tell me, where are Rikon and Triton in that chart, or would they not be in such a grouping for some reason…?

Thanks


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

> The chart is post #10 is interesting, and not surprising.
> 
> Would someone with sharper vision please tell me, where are Rikon and Triton in that chart, or would they not be in such a grouping for some reason…?
> 
> ...


This link could help.

EDIT: FYI, Rigid = Emerson, Triton = not shown


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

> This link could help.
> 
> EDIT: FYI, Rigid = Emerson, Triton = not shown
> 
> - DS


To further add confusion, the cordless division & pneumatic, if not all the home gamer RIDGID tools are produced by TTI including table saws.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

That chart appears to show who *owns* and markets the brand name (trademark?) not necessarily who makes them. Tools of the same brand may be made by several different manufacturers. I can't' seem to find the reference now but a bunch of brands from different brand owners are made by/in the same Taiwanese factory for example.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Geetech does most of the big names (including Sawstop, check the chart above) though there are some others. The larger outfits keep persona over in China to manage the production of their specific brands.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

That chart is a bit dated, just as an aside.


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

> That chart is a bit dated, just as an aside.
> 
> - jonah


From the article;
Infographics updated: September 24, 2017

Yup it IS dated… heheh


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## jimintx (Jan 23, 2014)

My question above was about the lineage of RIKON.

RiDGID was not the brand I was asking about.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

My 46 year old Craftsman table saw was made by Emerson!


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

> That chart is a bit dated, just as an aside.
> 
> - jonah
> 
> ...


It lists Ridgid as being made by Emerson, but Ridgid's consumer (non-plumbing) tools are made by TTI.


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

> My question above was about the lineage of RIKON.
> 
> RiDGID was not the brand I was asking about.
> 
> - jimintx


Proof positive that I am getting OLD in my old age!

Rikon = not shown

Sorry for the mistake.


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## AZWoody (Jan 18, 2015)

> My question above was about the lineage of RIKON.
> 
> RiDGID was not the brand I was asking about.
> 
> - jimintx


For some reason, I always think of Rikon and Craftsman having very similar lineage.


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

https://www.rikontools.com/about

From their website;
RIKON's ISO9001 certified factory in located in Qingdao, China.

This suggests they make their own tools.
Who owns them? That is a different question.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

Judging by the chart shown, it appears it doesn't matter who owns/makes a particular tool. It all comes down to personal experience with a particular tool. There is no clear cut "best" tool out there. I have personally found that a tool, once heralded as the "best", 10 years ago may now become a "so-so" tool. We are no further along in identifying a good/better/best tool. You "pays your money and you take your chances". The only true identifier of a quality tool has to be when tools were 100% made in the USA going back 20+ years in the past; so if quality is prime and you are willing to forgo all the bells and whistles associated with modern tools, the used tool market is the best place to go. I am fortunate to have bought my tools as far back as 70 years ago. Those I possess, are stil as good as they were back when they were new. I treasure my old tools; I know they can't be replaced by the new ones.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

Rikon does not make their own tools. At least not all of them.

For example, Woodcraft sells a Rikon-branded air filtration unit that is in absolutely every way *identical *to the Wen unit. It's also sold under a few other brands.

I'd honestly be very surprised if anyone, especially a niche brand, actually owned their own factory in China. It's much more likely they contract for manufacture there.


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

Back in 1989 I worked as an application engineer for an electronics manufacturer. We made a particular digital protractor (inclinometer) that was widely sold by several tool catalog houses.

Mitutoyo, based in Japan, had us private label a version for them that they resold in Japan, but sometimes, it would end up side by side in these catalogs with a $5 price difference ($390 vs $395). The ONLY difference between the two was that they had different labels stuck to the front and one took a tour of Japan before being delivered to the end user.

Clients who would see this difference would ask me about it and I would tell them there is absolutely no substantial difference. It didn't even matter to me which one he bought because our mfg cut was identical regardless of which brand they bought.

Almost without fail, they would pay the extra $5. Somehow, they couldn't get past it. The more expensive one MUST be worth the extra $5, right?

BTW, we made the same device under about 30 different private labels.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

*DS*, that is so typical of customers and companies!
It's similar to grocery store brand versus brand name item, which in many cases are identical!
From canned corn to band aids to tissues!


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Hey wait, someone promised to bring manufacturing back to the US … that chart is sure to be outdated any day now, hahaha.


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

Kinda like the Dole pineapple operation in HI. They run several different canning lines. Same cans, same pineapples, different labels.


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## Gilley23 (May 9, 2017)

> Hey wait, someone promised to bring manufacturing back to the US … that chart is sure to be outdated any day now, hahaha.
> 
> - Rick_M


Yeah because that happens instantly.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> Yeah because that happens instantly.
> - Gilley23


Maybe Putin hasn't approved the plan yet.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

Manufacturing isn't coming back, at least the way manufacturing was at one time!
There are just too many countries that have lower labor cost, lower taxes, fewer regulations, etc that make it impossible to be competitive in manufacturing!
The countries that are now "eating" up our manufacturing will be in the same boat down the road as this is an evolutionary process.


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

Not sure if this is related, but, oldnovice is probably correct, that when, or if, manufacturing jobs come back, they will not be like before.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/10/you-will-lose-your-job-to-a-robot-and-sooner-than-you-think/


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