# Question on Dovetail jig



## DonS1959 (Feb 10, 2021)

OK this is probably a dumb question but here goes the way I was taught is the only dumb question is the one you do not ask

I have never cut a dovetail in anything to join to pieces of wood together, I will be making three or four tail pieces for some gourd banjos that I am building for my grand kids, I will be making them out off snake wood it will basically be a L shaped tail piece with the vertical piece sliding over the dowel that runs through the gourd and the horizontal piece sitting just above and extending out over the head of the banjo.

I was thinking about doing a 45 degree miter cut to tie the two pieces of the tail piece together but have since decided to do dovetail joins instead because I feel a dovetail joint will be stronger then the 45 degree miter joint

I want to make my dove tail joints with a 3/8 in dovetail router bit my question is do they make a jig that will work with a router to do 3/8 dovetail joints I have purchased a set of bushings but again I have never before done dovetail joints to build anything

I am looking at the MCLS dovetail jig will it work for what i am trying to accomplish

Thanks for reading


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

I bought a cheap General and had some problems with it, sold it on ebay and bought a Porter Cable, much better in my opinion. I think it was around $200 at Rockler but I had a coupon. Although I guess now General has a 2nd version that is supposedly better than I had.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

Is this going to be a one-off or do you plan to make more in the future… do you want diversity… do you have a deep wallet… Check out the Leigh D4R... the small one sounds more economical, but if you want dovetails, you want the 24".


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## DonS1959 (Feb 10, 2021)

> Is this going to be a one-off or do you plan to make more in the future… do you want diversity… do you have a deep wallet… Check out the Leigh D4R... the small one sounds more economical, but if you want dovetails, you want the 24".
> 
> - LittleBlackDuck


those are nice but I do not believe I will be making enough dovetail joints to justify the cost of the Leigh jig

to start I will be making 3-5 for grand kids. you never know after that I would like to purchase a good jig set up, but as I stated I do not know anything about making dovetails so i am open to all suggestions i don't like purchasing something and only getting two or three uses out of it and then have to purchase again to do the same job


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

After several jigs, I buckled down and gave up. 
This is my current "jig"

https://www.stanleytools.com/products/hand-tools/cutting-tools/saws/434-in-fatmax-coping-saw/15-104

You can search the WEB and find all kinds of DIY one-off jigs for your router. Basically just using a fence and careful measuring. Unless you are spending $300 got the Leigh, you are stuck with fixed spacing and pin size. I don;t know if the $40 Horrible Freight clone of the Porter Cable works.

Of course, one can buy a full set of tools from Rob Cosman. Someday I may step up. I have also looked at the various methods of jigs in the table saw and band saw. I do pretty well roughing on the BS. Ground an old chisel sides into bevels for cleanout.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

It will take practice but A $100 dovetail saw (Veritas), marking gauges and some sharp chisels can get you there. For what its worth most jigs take a lot of practice too. I hear they can make a preacher cuss.


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

https://www.youtube.com/c/RobCosmancom/featured
Rob is new to me, but seems to have a lot of very good information.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

I have watched a lot of videos and am kind of hybrid and use bits of all. I would say the bulk of how I cut is Cosman method. Instead of cutting the rabbit as the baseline I have been using four layers of tape and cutting it with my marking gauge to create a reference edge. Andy Rauls has a way of marking half blinds with tape that looks interesting that I plan to try soon.


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Don't know about a preacher, but there is a reason I am learning by hand!
For one thing, the even spaced machine layout just does not look good to me.

Is the Veritas saw a narrow set? I have been tempted for that one.

As far as technique, there is really only one absolute correct way. The way that works for you.



> It will take practice but A $100 dovetail saw (Veritas), marking gauges and some sharp chisels can get you there. For what its worth most jigs take a lot of practice too. I hear they can make a preacher cuss.
> 
> - controlfreak


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

Don I bought that Leigh dovetail jig several years ago and have only used a few times. It's got quite a learning curve and it's not very forgiving. You've got to be dialed in precisely. Somewhere I saw someone suggest it would be best to have two router set for it. One with a dovetail bit the other with a straight cutting bit. If I ever get around to another project with it I might consider that.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

The Veritas saw is nice for the money and it is a narrow blade fine tooth dovetail saw. Only negative is the handle that looks somewhat like wood is plastic. I had a Japanese pull saw but wanted the pistol grip for more control.


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## northwoodsman (Feb 22, 2008)

The Leigh is fairly simple to use once you understand their design and the instructions are great. There are 2 main things to dial in and both have to be PERFECT: 1) the depth of the bit itself, and the adjustment of their concentric bushing. And don't even think about rotating the orientation of your router during the cutting process, the router must be orientated the same way for each cut because if it's not your cuts will be slightly off no matter how centered you think your bit is to the guide bushing. Lastly, I don't understand the science, physics or whatever behind this but just when you get everything dialed in perfectly in your cheap pine and insert your walnut, cherry, maple, or oak that you are using for your finished project, your joints won't fit and you'll need to fine tune them again. That's when the preacher starts cussing. But then again it all depends on how much of a perfectionist you are. I have seen people that are proud of joints that looked like they hacked them with a chainsaw while blindfolded.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> Don I bought that Leigh dovetail jig several years ago and have only used a few times. It s got quite a learning curve and it s not very forgiving… Somewhere I saw someone suggest it would be best to have two router set for it.,,
> 
> - BurlyBob
> 
> ...


I believe the OP has already made indication that he doesn't want good (a Leigh) but opting for cheap. I write this to prevent dissuasion of others reading comments in this blog that may contemplate a Leigh.


All jigs *have to be PERFECT* to get satisfactory results.
There is an "inclined" learning curve (it's gradient is governed by the readers cognitive ability), but that's same with most jig… However, Leigh are renowned as one of the best instructions manuals out there… so it's all there… just off your arse and read before using.
Any router that does not have a perfectly centered bit in the following template will cause issues if you rotate the base… this is true for any dovetailing jig… and to me, it seem that people complaining about the cost of the Leigh would probably have cheap routers which would exacerbate this issue… and for this reason, I do not recommend *use of 2 routers*. 
The Leigh will permit your own kinky dovetail outlay and pin/tail sizes (width)... that's why I recommend the *Pro*.
Once you've done the tail, test cut a pin board with just a few pins… no need to do a full board width cut as it's just to test the tails depth and width… test fit and adjust the pin to the tail… the manual is precise in how to adjust… If you "move" in the right direction, you can re-cut the test piece till it fits… using the scaled markings.
Great dust collection… 95%+, and that's being pessimistic.

The only issue I have with the manual is their *"triangle"* marking system for inside/outside boards. I have devised my own method... you may need to devise one that suits you.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

> Is this going to be a one-off or do you plan to make more in the future… do you want diversity… do you have a deep wallet… Check out the Leigh D4R... the small one sounds more economical, but if you want dovetails, you want the 24".
> 
> - LittleBlackDuck
> 
> ...


If you are running a business you have to justify expenditures. A hobby is about fun and relaxation. There is no room for the nasty word "justification".


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

Sounds complicated, give me a saw and marking gauge for limited cuts. Batching out drawers for production, give me the most expensive jig I can get.


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

Snake wood?! Thats like *rock*. Polishes up nice with 2000 grit automotive wet/dry sandpaper tho.

Are you locked into dovetails? For under $150 you can get a *Fast-Joint Mini* that will do four types of decorative "dovetails." I got good results on the first try - read my review HERE









*CROWN* pattern in wenge and padauk.


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## Foghorn (Jan 30, 2020)

> The Veritas saw is nice for the money and it is a narrow blade fine tooth dovetail saw. Only negative is the handle that looks somewhat like wood is plastic. I had a Japanese pull saw but wanted the pistol grip for more control.
> 
> - controlfreak


I have three of the Veritas saws. The handles are all Bubinga, solid wood, not plastic. Are you sure yours aren't knock offs?


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

New Veritas saws are plastic backbone, hardwood handle. Rob Cosman saws have a plastic handle but traditional brass backbone. "Plastic" is an engineering material. Do not assume it means cheap.

I have a fast joint setup too. Don't use it. Don't like the machine look. Fancy for no reason. Got them to fit pretty well, but you have to design to the jig, not design the joint to the work. Easy to mess up the templates.


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## Foghorn (Jan 30, 2020)

> New Veritas saws are plastic backbone, hardwood handle. Rob Cosman saws have a plastic handle but traditional brass backbone. "Plastic" is an engineering material. Do not assume it means cheap.
> 
> I have a fast joint setup too. Don t use it. Don t like the machine look. Fancy for no reason. Got them to fit pretty well, but you have to design to the jig, not design the joint to the work. Easy to mess up the templates.
> 
> - tvrgeek


Not really plastic. It's metal infused plastic proprietary stuff. Interesting and very solid backbone. Feels and looks like metal to me. High quality regardless.


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## northwoodsman (Feb 22, 2008)

For what it's worth, I have the Leigh DVR Pro and I've owned it for 8-10 years. I use it for an average of one small project each year. It's a solid, precise jig and I wouldn't consider selling it for the full price of a new one today. Although it's sometimes a challenge to set up, it's fun to use once dialed in. I like the adjustable spacing on the joints to make them look more "natural". Definitely worth the cost and frustration.


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## DonS1959 (Feb 10, 2021)

> Snake wood?! Thats like *rock*. Polishes up nice with 2000 grit automotive wet/dry sandpaper tho.
> 
> Are you locked into dovetails? For under $150 you can get a *Fast-Joint Mini* that will do four types of decorative "dovetails." I got good results on the first try - read my review HERE
> 
> ...


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

Be sure to read my review when you get it assembled. Their instructions are very clear.


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## DonS1959 (Feb 10, 2021)

> Be sure to read my review when you get it assembled. Their instructions are very clear.
> 
> - Madmark2


Thank you I will I appreciate the input from everyone


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## DonS1959 (Feb 10, 2021)

Madmark2 I do have a question are your photos enlarged by chance which I hope you answer is yes I am talking in your review if your answer is no then i do not know if that is going to work for me because everything looks like it would be to large for what i need or want for my joint on my banjo tail pieces


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

The tails are 1-3/16" apart and about 5/8" into the 3/4" end stock. The ends pretty much need to be 3/4", the sides can be 1/4" to 3/4" with under 1/2" the most common. That example showing both ends is 4-11/16" high. 4×1-3/16" = 4-3/4" less a 1/16" for trim.

Read the review, it explains all of the template size tradeoffs.


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## DonS1959 (Feb 10, 2021)

> Don I bought that Leigh dovetail jig several years ago and have only used a few times. It s got quite a learning curve and it s not very forgiving… Somewhere I saw someone suggest it would be best to have two router set for it.,,
> 
> - BurlyBob
> 
> ...


I do have a question for you LittleBlackDuck where in my post did I state anything about cheap I simply ask if what I was looking at would work and was open to any and all suggestions I do not purchase cheap anything because I look at it you get what you pay for I do have a drill from harbor freight that was cheap compared to others and a Ryobi 3/8 impact which was cheap to purchase but other than those two tools I do not purchase cheap things that is why I do not like forums because people assume to much and try to read between the lines where there is no words and we all know what assumption does for us.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

*Mea culpa.* 


> ... but I do not believe I will be making enough dovetail joints to *justify the cost* of the Leigh jig
> - DonS1959
> 
> ... where in my post did I state anything about cheap…
> - DonS1959


Maybe a misinterpretation of the meaning of *cheap*... at least here, in this particular instance… I should have been more specific, however, as I've often been accused of crapping on too much, I was "trying" (I know very) to keep the word count down (and maybe just a tad of sarcasm thrown in… but not specifically directed at you)...

Let me rephrase my comment to "... doesn't want/need *the best* (a Leigh) but opting for *cost saving* options."...


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## DonS1959 (Feb 10, 2021)

OK well there you have it I assumed something that was not correct and just made an ass out of myself

I apologize LittleBlackDuck

Yes I like saving money and purchasing the cheapest of tools to me is not saving money, that Leigh jig if I felt I would be doing more dovetails I would have most defanately made the purchase but for the few I will be doing I just need one to get through the job

its like when I purchased my mini table saw even though there are numerous models available the Byrne's,the proxon and the micro mark stood out to me, i ended up going with the micro mark tilt because it suited my need more and I have not looked back that little small saw sees more use then any tool in my arsenal I narrowed it down to the Byrnes and micro mark and went with the micro mark because of price


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