# Wormholes turned white - help me recover this finish!



## JohnMcClure (Aug 24, 2016)

I made this tabletop from wormy oak that I milled and kiln dried.
















Finish is System 3 Clear Coat epoxy.
SWMBO likes it, but says it's too shiny. So I took the shine off by sanding with 400, 800, 1200. This created a lot of white dust, which collected into the wormholes (which didn't fill with epoxy). 


















Now I can't get the dust out of the holes! Won't blow out with compressed air; I've tried brushing out with a toothbrush, but it's a lot of work for each hole and there are hundreds of them; plus it seems the brush was getting most, but not all, of the white powder out.

To make matters worse, I had used some BLO to lubricate the last round of sanding, and I'm starting to think it has coagulated the remaining dust into the holes - I left it for a few days, and now even brushing won't take the white out.

What do you LJocks recommend?

Some options I can think of: 
Option 1: mix some black tinted epoxy, and using a toothpick, drop a bit into each hole. Then, quickly, wipe the top aggressively with a Xylene-soaked rag to pick up any excess black epoxy. The black probably won't fill the holes completely, but will (hopefully) cover the white; and wiping it off will prevent having to sand again and recreate the problem.

Option 2: Liberally apply shellac. Hoping that the shellac flows into the holes and suspends the powder particles, making them clear; then wipe the top off with denatured (avoiding the shine that SWMBO doesn't like).

Option 3: Black tinted wax? I think it's a bad idea…

Option 4: any ideas you folks have?


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## RobHannon (Dec 12, 2016)

Do you have an hidden area or cutoff you can test? I think filling it with a dark resin will look the best, but kind of a gamble as to if it will stain the wood or not at this stage.

Cerusing with a dark wax also could work well, but I don't know how it will work out with BLO as an undercoat.

All else fails you could try clearing the residue out with a brass brush. Be a lot of work and you will need to top coat it with something to get rid of the scratched, but that is a big piece not to ultimately be happy with.

Good luck and let us know what worked for you.


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## diverlloyd (Apr 25, 2013)

Have you tried a bush on a shop vac?


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## DJHendriks (Jul 15, 2017)

I had a similar problem, at least i think its similar, with a cupboard that was painted white.
After peeling off the paint, all the white dots were very visible. Far more than a hundred…
It took me two nights to clean them, using a needle and a vacuum cleaner. 
Needless to say, it was a heck of a job, but finally it made me happy.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

> Have you tried a bush on a shop vac?
> 
> - diverlloyd


Like this?









I would see what a brush with paint thinner (mineral spirits) does. Then blow it out with air while it's wet.
The BLO may have sealed in the sanding dust. 
If that's the case, filling with black epoxy may be the only other way to go, without stripping it out..


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

The blo most likely sealed a significant amount in the holes - wrong choice. I've had the same issue many times. A brush on a shop vac and microfiber towels help but usually dont get it all. I thin paste wax down till watery and add dark dye - depends on the project color - pretty much flood the surface so the wax mix gets in all the holes, then wipe The surface down to get an even wax coating. You can also wipe the surface with a damp ms rag to strip the wax but leave it in the holes.

Typical ob stains have pigment and dye. In a can that has sat for a few days the pigment settles out. The liquid on top has dye in it and can be mixed with the wax. Just have to find the right color.


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## diverlloyd (Apr 25, 2013)

> Have you tried a bush on a shop vac?
> 
> - diverlloyd
> 
> ...


It would be better if the bush had white petals. Sorry for the misspelling it's a bad migraine day. What I had invisioned was the shop vac with a small stiff detail brush attached. If I feel up to going out to the shop I will take a picture of the one I have well if I can find it. It's a mess out there right now.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

> It would be better if the bush had white petals. Sorry for the misspelling it s a bad migraine day. What I had invisioned was the shop vac with a small stiff detail brush attached. If I feel up to going out to the shop I will take a picture of the one I have well if I can find it. It s a mess out there right now.
> 
> - diverlloyd


I was just funnin with ya. I misspell words all the time…. 
(hope the migraine goes away)


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I would see what a brush with paint thinner (mineral spirits) does. Then blow it out with air while it s wet.
> The BLO may have sealed in the sanding dust.
> If that s the case, filling with black epoxy may be the only other way to go, without stripping it out..
> 
> - jbay


If the mineral spirits doesn't work, try acetone using something like a Q-tip. Acetone is a solvent for epoxy and may dissolve the dust.

Then again, it may not  Best of luck.


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## JohnMcClure (Aug 24, 2016)

Thanks everyone. Looking hard at these suggestions, I'm trying to lay out an order in which to try things, starting with the most reversible.
First would be shopvac, with stiff brush (I have tried, but perhaps need to try more), with needle (I've been using a sharpened piece of wire but a needle is a good idea).

Next would be brushing with MS.

If that fails, next would be dabbing acetone into the pores.

So far, all the above are aimed at REMOVING the dust.

Oh, and if any of that leaves scratches, sanding to remove them is out of the question - so that's a problem!

So I think if this fails, I'll next try the shellac method (which nobody seconded!) since it's reversible. If it can suspend the particles, making them clear, my problem would be solved.

Then it's either wax or black epoxy. Epoxy being irreversible, and wax being difficult to reverse. I'm concerned that wax would be pretty dull… but if there are unintended consequences with the epoxy I'd be in trouble.

I hate the idea of letting this gorgeous peice get ruined. And I hate the idea of having to put much more labor into this - I've already put a LOT into it.

Anyway thanks for the advice all, I'll try to let you know how it goes! and keep it coming if anyone has more suggestions!


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

Technically, this is your wife's fault. I'd make her do the work.


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## Fresch (Feb 21, 2013)

Try car clay


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## JohnMcClure (Aug 24, 2016)

I have updates on this:
I tried brushing aggressively with a toothbrush and MS (no shopvac, I truly don't believe it would have helped). Once the MS evaporated, the situation was a bit better, but the problem persisted. Those holes are so deep and narrow that the contaminants do not want to evacuate.
A high-pressure spray of MS through a narrow nozzle would work, maybe, but I don't have such equipment. Compressed air does not get it.

I also tried dissolving the particulate with Xylene - sounds like a great idea, but no, once the Xylene evaporates, the deposits remain.

Two options, I guess: a) brush with MS for one more round, then be satisfied with the result and accept the imperfection; b) try dripping black epoxy into the whitest holes.
I think I'll try b on a few tonight. Will update if anything works.

Oh - and I looked at car clay, but I don't think it works in this application because the holes are so deep and narrow, the clay would not reach the contaminates.


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## tomd (Jan 29, 2008)

I would try the shellac on a small area and see if it works, I know it works on lacquer and poly.


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## JohnMcClure (Aug 24, 2016)

> I would try the shellac on a small area and see if it works, I know it works on lacquer and poly.
> 
> - tomd


Forgot to mention - I tried that too. No use! I think the epoxy powder, combined with my foolish attempted solution using BLO, is congealed well enough that the shellac couldn't flow into it and suspend the particulates.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

One more shot in the dark:

https://www.amazon.com/Dremel-405-02-Nylon-Bristle-Brushes/dp/B015PK3B8C

Edit: Assuming it isn't fully hardened, that is. Another possibility would be to hire a dental hygienist to bring their tools over and scrape out the "plaque." I doubt if your dental insurance will cover that. (just kidding about the last part)


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## Firewood (Dec 4, 2013)

A dental tool may be a good choice. I was also wondering if the holes and voids we're large enough for a pipe cleaner. I have some that have tiny wires along with the fuzz that would help if the material is somewhat hardened. Did you try canned air like for electronics? I think some come with the small tube you can put in the nozzle.


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## builtinbkyn (Oct 29, 2015)

Why not try blend sticks for this? I know there are lots of holes, but the process should go pretty quickly. You can use different shades in various holes so it doesn't appear to be a fix.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Thinned wax with dye is going To be your best bet.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

Try a syringe with some ink in it. Very accurate application and makes it permanently black. Fixed something like your problem few years back for a friend. Looked okay but took some time to apply. I did it all over the course of 4 nights. So take your time.

My .02 cents worth anyway.

LOL


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Try a syringe with some ink in it. Very accurate application and makes it permanently black. Fixed something like your problem few years back for a friend. Looked okay but took some time to apply. I did it all over the course of 4 nights. So take your time.
> 
> My .02 cents worth anyway.
> 
> ...


+1. This sounds like a good idea. You can test it out on a couple of spots and see.

One thing I would suggest is using India ink. It's pure black. Some other blacks are really deep purple and/or blue.


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

OK today I found myself in a similar situation. Not size-wise but annoying-wise. For a recent top, I filled some mesquite holes and cracks with black-tinted epoxy and in one area it did not come out right, there were lots of tiny little impressions where bubbles formed and popped. Didn't know this until I was sanding down the top. I had taken my time and filled these gaps slowly, not doing the biggest ones in one go. I'd fill a little, wait until that was dry, filled again, etc. Thought I had done everything correctly, clearly did not in this one area. When I wiped off the sanding dust with a paper towel and mineral spirits, I noticed mesquite dust turned every little pinhead-sized and less-than-pinhead sized impression brown. I have all these tiny brown dots in a sea of black and they will not come out under any circumstance.










Unfortunately, you have a much larger area. I'm only dealing with a few narrow inches. What I'm doing is filling in the impressions with the same acrylic black paint that I used to tint the epoxy. I couldn't fill in individual holes because they are so small. I slathered some paint on part of it, will see what happens when I smooth it down tomorrow. If that doesn't work, I'll mix it with epoxy and then smooth that down.

It seems to me that filling it in might be your best bet vs. taking it out. Sorry it's so many holes, I know that's extremely frustrating. Using toothpicks might be an option if you don't have a syringe.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> OK today I found myself in a similar situation.
> 
> - ColonelTravis


You should start a thread for this. I have some comments and I'm sure others will too. I just don't want to turn John's thread into two lanes.


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## JohnMcClure (Aug 24, 2016)

Thank everyone for your incredibly helpful replies. I'm floored by the creativity - a syringe of india ink! That would have been perfect.
But having neither syringe nor india ink, I successfully filled 3 pinholes (just a test) last night with black tinted epoxy applied with a toothpick, wiping surface with xylene afterward. I got up early this morning, had a look to make certain there were no unintended consequences, and got back at it. One hour later I'm satisfied with the results. I'll post pics later if I can, and eventually this will end up in my projects (once I get legs built and attached to the skirt - so maybe next year LOL).

Again, thanks y'all - LJs is such a great resource. If this happens to me again I think I'll use ink in a syringe - seems like much easier application - after cleaning with that dremel brush. 
Tint sticks would have worked too I'm sure. So many good approaches, that I never would have thought of on my own. Thanks.


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

Wasn't trying to veer off with John's thread, was just saying - try addition instead of subtraction. I'm good with my situation.


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## JohnMcClure (Aug 24, 2016)

Before and after pictures, black epoxy worked for me:


















This was my test; the whole top is now complete. There are a few holes with a bit of white still visible, but not enough to detract from the beauty of the piece.
Again, I appreciate everyone's helpful suggestions.



> try addition instead of subtraction.
> - ColonelTravis


I like that philosophy!


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

That's awesome. Glad you found a solution. I know it's tedious but at least you've found a fix.


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