# Dust Collection



## Tennwood (Sep 9, 2009)

*A journey into the dust and chips - installing a dust collection system the hard way.*

I appologize in advance for being long winded here, just kind of the way I write.

I recently installed a dust collection system in my basement shop and discovered through trial and error, this was not going to be as easy, or as cheap, as I thought. It is installed it seems to work; but if I had the time, money and patience, I would probably tear it out and start over. I have too many fun projects to take care of first.

*History* - About 6 months after moving into our new home and new basement shop, I volunteered to "help" build some cabinets and bookshelves for our church's new offices. The "help" was that my son and I helped the pastor load up my truck at Lowes with all the lumber to take our home so I could build them. After completing the first set of shelves, I discovered that sanding in the workshop was a mistake. Although I have a dedicated workshop, it is not airtight and dust was over half the basement. The daily ordeal of dragging out (and tripping over) the shop vac to attach to the equipment and the daily cleaning of the shop was also getting old. I also discovered that the shop vac filter clogged up quickly. My wife only goes into the basement to get dry goods stored there, but she was still sympathetic and agreed that a dust collector would be a good idea. She liked the idea of the kids and me not breathing in all the dust.

*Dust Collectors (DC)* - I purchased a Penn State 1-1/2 hp "Dustroyer" DC2V3X. I had not discovered Lumberjocks yet, but did as much research as I could on the internet. I was looking for something inexpensive but at least 1.5hp and a 1 micron filter. I made my decision to get the Penn State and called in the order. I intended to get the base model but after discussing it with the rep, or was talked into it, I upgraded to canister filter. The canister replaces the upper cloth bag and it comes with 10 thick clear plastic collection bags replacing the lower cloth bag. In hindsight, I think it was a good move. The canister is fairly easy to clean with paddles you rotate against the inside of the filter but needs the occasional thumping to clean it off good. The plastic bags make it easy to see when you are getting full - lesson #1 learned later. I am not a heavy user so they will last me a few years. The dust issue in my shop (and the rest of the basement) has drastically diminished since I started using it, which is one of the big reasons I got it with the 1 micron filter. The DC seems to have sufficient vacuum. I only run one tool or hose at time to ensure there is sufficient vacuum but it could probably handle two. When I run my planner, there are no chips left over. On the flip side, the canister seems to be a bit of an afterthought in the design. The engineer in me would have come up with a better system to attach it. The lid on top of the canister is not secured down (despite what the instructions show). I had trouble with it partially lifting off and getting dust everywhere. This may be because the filter was getting clogged or the collection bag was getting too full, or ….. Lesson # 1: Now I make sure I knock the dust off the canister regularly and empty the bag when it is no more than 1/3 full. I also keep a weight on top just in case. (I have to store my tenon jig somewhere.) The design for attaching the collection bags is a bit rinkydink, but it works. The support poles holding up bag/collection port/canister could be beefed up. It is a little wobbly but, as I did not need to move it around much, and is now permanently in one spot, it has not been an issue. The installation instructions suck. Overall - for the money, I think it will serve me fine for several years.










*Starting The Research* - Now I get to the main purpose of this blog. After completing the church project, I was already getting tired of pulling 4-inch hoses and the DC around the shop, so it was time to build a collection system. This is when I discovered Lumberjocks. I looked at a lot of shops to see how other members set up and constructed theirs. I found a couple of threads on PVC piping that were helpful (see pvc pipe sizes in forums). Two workshops that had good examples and photos of a DC system are gene and Patrick Jaromin .

*PVC Pipe and DC Fitting Sizing *- Over time, I have collected a handful of hose fittings and reducers for my equipment to attach to my shop vac. Even then, I was discovering that it sometime took two or more fittings to get it up to/down to the size I needed. Some of my equipment have 4-inch ports, 2-1/2-inch ports, some have 1-1/4-inch ports, and my band saw is some weird size. When I got my DC, I purchased a Multiple Machine Dust Collector Set from Woodcraft with two 4-inch hoses and several fittings and ports, which was a good start. When I started my research, I was discovering that most people were going with schedule 20 PVC. Metal pipe sounded nice but way out of my price range. Now, I am not going to get into the grounded or not grounded discussion, as there are several forums on that already. I went down to Lowes and Home Depot and priced out PVC. I had originally looked at schedule 40 pipe and was glad to discover the 4-inch thin walled PVC at about half the price. However, what was schedule of this pipe? Nothing was stamped on the pipe. The thin walled 4-inch PVC pipe is labeled sewer or drainage pipe (in both green and white). Is this the right stuff? Hence the search into the PVC pipe forums. I am still a bit fuzzy on it, but believe that this pipe is the schedule 20. Great - I have found a, simple, inexpensive way to pipe my DC system - NOT. Onto the internet - how do I get from the PVC pipe to the 4 inch DC hoses and fittings. After a little hunting on a the wood craft supplier sites I found there are ready made fittings to get from PVC pipe or schedule 20 pipe to the DC fittings (depending on which site you are on). Great - I just need to make "a" trip to the local Woodcraft store and pick up what I need to get started - NOT. Fortunately, I took a PVC elbow with me to compare. After holding, fitting, and tinkering with the different display pieces with the PVC fitting and the other DC fittings, and a lot of head scratching, I was quickly discovering this was not going to be easy. Nothing really fit as I would have expected, especially the PVC to DC fittings. The clerks tried to help but it was obvious they did not have much experience in this either. I purchased a handful of fittings and adapters and hoped for the best. Lesson #2 - not all fittings are made the same.
Shop Layout - I went through several iterations in designing my DS system, both on paper and in my head. My final design ended up much different from where I started. The final configuration ended up as trial and error in the placement of the power tools. What I thought would work well in one place did not necessarily fit physically or functionally. As much of a pain as it was, by moving the equipment from one spot to another I came up with a design that works ok, for the moment. Now that it is installed, I would still probably change it around if it were not such a pain in neck.

*PVC Pipe Installation* - I then went to Lowes or Home Depot and purchased10-foot sections of 4-inch PVC drainage pipe, elbows and tees. This is where things got interesting, or frustrating. Starting at the dust collector, I ran a 10-foot flexible hose from the DC to the end of the PVC. I discovered that the PVC adapter fitting would not fit. In this case, the connection between the flexible hose and the "4" dust collector hose to 4" PVC pipe" adapter fit fine. The opening that is inserted over the PVC pipe was too small. I had to sand the PVC pipe down to size using my belt sander to get it to fit into the adapter fitting.










I hung the 4-inch PVC pipe along the exposed rafters of the basement ceiling. At designated locations, I installed PVC tees for access the individual tools. Hanging the pipe using the 4-inch hangers from Woodcraft worked well. I didn't have any section over 4 feet long but it would have been a whole lot easier if I had another hand to hold it up while I screwed them in place. Consequently, it is a little sloppy looking.










*Connecting the Stations* - My router station has two ports, one for the fence and one for the cabinet. I was originally going to run two lines from the 4-inch PCV line but had a DC 4-inch Y-connection to a 4-inch and 2-1/2-inch ports in my collection and decided to use that instead. Because my PVC to DC adapters were on back order, I thought I would try to connect directly to the PVC from the Y connection. The Y connection was smaller in diameter so I used a large dose of silicon and two screws to hold it in place.










I connected the router cabinet to the 2-1/2-inch port and the fence using a reducer at the Y. Here I ran into two problems. I purchased black rigid flex collection hose for all my connections. This hose is less expensive than the standard flex hose and will work fine in places that the hose has little movement, but does not work well on equipment that will be moved more than a few inches. This is going to be a problem with the router fence. Actually, I have this problem at all the tool locations as they are all semi-mobile. Lesson #3 - In hindsight I should have spent the extra $10 per 10-foot section and purchased the more pliable hose. My next problem was connecting the 2-1/2-inch hose to a 2-inch schedule 40 PVC pipe on the back of the cabinet. The outside diameter of the 2-inch pipe is significantly smaller than the hose and 2-1/2-inch PVC is too large. My temporary solution has been to wrap the pipe with heavy felt and seal it with silicone. This I am planning to redesign this when I finish my cabinet.










The second connection is to a workstation over the bench. Right now, I am using this as an exhaust hood when I am sanding. This works ok when I am sanding smaller items, but I will continue to do my major sanding outside. I also installed this station so I would have a port in the center of the workshop for future growth. Again, out with the belt sander to make the fittings fit. The schedule 20 - DC fitting did not quite fit so I sanded it down in order to slide it into the PVC. Here is where I ran into my next conundrum, not all DC fittings are made alike, even when they all come from the same store (see lesson #2 above). When I was at the Woodcraft store playing the different fittings, I noticed some did not quite go together, either too tight or too loose. From the PVC-DC fitting, I used a male-to-male adapter and had to sand one end down to fit into a blast gate.


















The third station is the band saw. My band saw has kind of an odd exhaust port size. Somewhere in my past, I came across a 2-1/4-inch to 4-inch reducer. A universal connector/reducer would not work. The 4-inch back flex hose would not fit onto this connection so I reduced it back down to a 2-1/2-inch connection connected to the 2-1/2 back flex hose. From here, I connected it to the PVC pipe via a reducer, female-to-female fitting, blast gate and PVC-DC adapter. Again, I sanded down the adapter to fit the PVC pipe. Seven fittings at $5 to $9 each, this ended up being a very inefficient and expensive run.


















My last station is the miter saw. This station configuration is an experiment that I plan to change when I build the miter saw cabinet. I got tired of waiting on the back ordered PVC to DC adapters so I heavily siliconed the blast gate into the PVC pipe and screwed it into place. Attaching the Y fitting to the blast gate using a female-to-female adapter, I have one hose going to a 4-inch dust extraction hood and a second running to a 1-1/4 inch hose to the miter saw. Here again the DC fittings did not connect snugly and I had to use copious amounts of glue and silicone on both ends of the reducer.


























*Leakage* - As you can see in the photos, I have blast gates on all the hoses at each station. There is some air leakage around the blast gates which I cannot do much about, and some leakage around some of the fittings, but the leakage seems to have minimal affect on the overall efficiency of the collector and system. I will tighten up the connections as I can as I become comfortable with the final layout. I usually only open the ports to one station at a time but the collector could probably handle two ports open at once.

*Portable Equipment *- The dust collector has two 4-inch ports. I attached a 4-inch, 10-foot long flexible hose to the second port for my portable equipment like my contractor table saw and my planner. I connect the hose when I need it and curl it up with the blast gate closed when I am on the other trunk. When I move up to a real table saw (someday), I will add another station to the system.

*Conclusions* - Ok, so now that you have clawed through this overly long dissertation with watery eyes, what can you conclude from my experience?

1. A well planned out system is key to the design. Drawings are great but actually placing the equipment where you are going to use it is the most useful resource.
2. Selecting the dust collector for your system is important, but there are too many variables and better recourses out there to discuss it here. 
3. Plan your layout with all the fittings in advance. I made too many trips to Lowes, Home Depot, and Woodcraft purchasing one or two fittings at a time.
4. Test all the fittings at the store if you can. See what will fit into what and where you will need to become creative. I ended up having to use too many connections and fittings. With better planning, I could have saved time and probably $100 in fittings.
5. The thin walled PVC (sewer/drainage) pipe and fittings are relatively inexpensive, around $8 for a 10-foot length of 4-inch pipe and around $2 to $6 for the various fittings. DC fittings are more expensive, around $5 - $12 for the various fittings and $20 - $40 for the 10-foot, 4-inch hose. Better planning on my part would have saved me money. I did not keep track but I am sure I have at least $300 (or more) in pipe and fittings.
6. Use the best hose for the application. If you are going to move the tools around, get the most flexible hose you can. Stationary tools can use the move rigid and less expensive hose. Pay the extra for flexible hose for your mobile stations, even if you are just moving them a foot or two.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Tennwood said:


> *A journey into the dust and chips - installing a dust collection system the hard way.*
> 
> I appologize in advance for being long winded here, just kind of the way I write.
> 
> ...


I didn't read it all (bad eyes), but….

a) Fantastic job. I'm rather envious;

b) Can the leakage at the blast gates be handled with mastic or with aluminum tape … the way HVAC ducting would be??

Again … great job!


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## jbertelson (Sep 26, 2009)

Tennwood said:


> *A journey into the dust and chips - installing a dust collection system the hard way.*
> 
> I appologize in advance for being long winded here, just kind of the way I write.
> 
> ...


Think I remarked a little about this before. My dust collection system, based on a Delta 50-760, which is more than powerful enough for me, uses only flexible hose. The most flexible is used for vacuuming outlets (3). I also have a floor sweep station. Because of my 8 foot crowded ceiling with lights and plumbing, rigid pipe was not a choice. The only issue with my Delta 50-760 is it is an amperage hog, and I am about to convert it to 220, today. I use a Woodcraft remote, I have already purchased the 220 model for my conversion. Works well.

I agree with making umpteen trips back to the store…I did the same thing, even though I thought I was planning. Some of it involved complicated arrangements at the stations. I realized I had no choice but to use flexible, which is much easier to install and modify, but more expensive and not as efficient. I would have rather spent the time and used rigid, but it would have involved so many joints it would be self defeating. I still don't have the fine details of the collection at each station determined, it is difficult to get every last shred of dust.

My only suggestions are: The floor sweep is very handy. Vucuum hoses in multiple areas are handy, but use very flexible (read more expensive hose), and that is what you said.

I think you are going to look back and wonder how you did without it, just like me. My shop is attached to the house like yours. My wife was the driver to get a system installed.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Tennwood said:


> *A journey into the dust and chips - installing a dust collection system the hard way.*
> 
> I appologize in advance for being long winded here, just kind of the way I write.
> 
> ...


Good job


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## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

Tennwood said:


> *A journey into the dust and chips - installing a dust collection system the hard way.*
> 
> I appologize in advance for being long winded here, just kind of the way I write.
> 
> ...


Jim, this is a nice blog. I did manage tomake it through the entire blog, You have a lot of good info in it for designing and ading a fixed system. Right now I am simply moving hoses around because I cannot see a stright forward way to add piping to my shop. But adding piping and drops are something I would like to do at some time.

You made the right choice in going with a cannister filter. My research indicated that this is inherently a more effective and efficient system design that is worth the extra cost.

Thanks for the post.


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## Tennwood (Sep 9, 2009)

Tennwood said:


> *A journey into the dust and chips - installing a dust collection system the hard way.*
> 
> I appologize in advance for being long winded here, just kind of the way I write.
> 
> ...


Neil

The leakage around the blast gates seem to be inside the gates themselves, or so it sounds. As the gates are just plastic, there is bound to be some inherit leakage with them. I don't think there is a significant loss to be concerned about. My other leaks are around joints that still need to be tighted up or cauked up with silicone. I will seal these up once I am satisfied with the final layout (probably in about 10 years).

Thanks for the read and comments
jim


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## deucefour (Jun 29, 2009)

Tennwood said:


> *A journey into the dust and chips - installing a dust collection system the hard way.*
> 
> I appologize in advance for being long winded here, just kind of the way I write.
> 
> ...


Man, sounds like what happens to me. Give yourself credit for not bashing the whole thing with a hammer, that is what I usually end up doing. I will take your advice when I design my system, thanks


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## longgone (May 5, 2009)

Tennwood said:


> *A journey into the dust and chips - installing a dust collection system the hard way.*
> 
> I appologize in advance for being long winded here, just kind of the way I write.
> 
> ...


In the past I went through the frustration of trying to make a bunch of fittings work that were plastic and PVC drain pipe connections. What a frustrating headache! I finally bit the bullet and installed a spiral metal ductwork system. (With the cost of the metal ductwork it is more llike biting an atomic bomb). It was so much easier to install and works much better. 
You can save money by using plastic "Y"'s and plascit elbows since they are the most expensive metal fittings. The plastic adapts quite well to the straight metal pipe.
Building a quality dust system is like buying quality tools…it is so much worth it in the long run..especially considering the money I wasted on PVC and accessories.
I will now always do it right the first time around and save the headaches.


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

Tennwood said:


> *A journey into the dust and chips - installing a dust collection system the hard way.*
> 
> I appologize in advance for being long winded here, just kind of the way I write.
> 
> ...


Pretty good setup, and please take my next comments as only wanting to be helpful here… But I do see a couple of issues that can cause performance issues with your system. (And you DID ask for conclusions based on our experience!)

Much of what I am going to say comes from my readings of Bill Pentz' work on the subject, as well as discussions with local aerodynamics experts, and my own personal observations due to my more than ample mistakes..

Your usage of short radius 90 degree turns is convenient for installation, but highly restrictive of air flow. Think about cars going down the road. A tight 90 degree bend requires the car to slow down dramatically to stay upright and on the road. Where a couple of 45 degree bends spaced by a short stretch of straight road, or better yet, long sweeping 90 degree bends allow the driver to go through at full throttle. The same is true with air flow… Lose those short 90s and replace them with sweeps, you will see a BIG increase in air flow.

Did you notice the ABS plastic fittings that were intended to carry air that you used were all Y shaped, and the PVC fittings that you used that were not intended for air were T shaped? Again, think traffic merging. You almost have to come to a complete stop to make a right turn at a Tee intersection, but merging is done at full traffic speed isn't it? You will again notice a sizable improvement in air flow by replacing those tee fittings with Y fittings…

FWIW, I have a couple of Y fittings, I think I got them from Lee Valley when they were at the Woodworking show in Houston, or maybe it was Peachtree, anyway…. The through branch is 4" both ways, and the offshoot branch is 2.5". I use one on my table saw (Ryobi BT3100), the 4" pulls from the belly pan, the 2.5" pulls from the blade shroud. Overall a VERY effective solution. You kind of did the same thing with multiple pieces.

Your band saw setup has me scratching my head. You go from small to big, to small, back to big. Why? Too many fittings, too much flex line for the air to bump accross. Pull your PVC MUCH closer, run 4" flex from the blast gate, to the 4" to 2.25" reducer, then to the saw… This would be a good place to put one of those ABS y fittings in, and pick up dust at the lower blade guide to boot.

I understand reducing down to 2 2.5" ports for the router table. But why the twin blast gates? I agree on the PVC pipe thing on the cabinet. I would consider replacing the hose with the flex hose, and proper 2.5" fittings from Lee Valley, Peachtree, well, whomever. Get a proper 2.5" dust port, drill the cabinet for it, and mount it up with a liberal amount of silicone sealant…

It sounds like you noticed that you have the empty the bag a lot of the filter gets clogged quickly, after about 1/3 full level… A pre-separator, or inlet ring baffle would put a stop to that. I personally put together a Thien cyclone separator for my 2 HP HF DC setup based on a 55 gallon drum. It works amazingly well, and was very simple to build.

For what it's worth, I had a couple of those plastic blast gates to start out with, and could not get them to seal at all well…. I finally went with self cleaning aluminum blast gates from Lee Valley. While I have no reason to think they do not leak, I do not hear air whooshing through them when closed…

Generally speaking the tricks of this are…
#1. Keep your runs as short, and straight as possible.
#2. Use as little flex line as physically possible. (They induce all those air slowing bumps).
#3. Reduce as little as possible, and if you have to, do it as close to the tool as you can.
#4. Avoid short radius turns. (Tees and short 90s, use Y's and sweep 90s instead)
#5. Use the smallest filtration size you can get (1 micron is good) with as much surface area as possible (Canisters provide this, bags don't provide enough).
#6. Keep the filter media free flowing by keeping as much dust and debris from getting to it without impeding air flow by use of a separator. Baffles in the inlet ring are good, and provide no real air flow hit (that I am aware of) separate separators on dust bins provide improved capacity, and peace of mind knowing a nail, or nut won't come flying through to mash into your impeller.
#7. Provide a sufficient CFM drawing dust collector. Pretty much any of the currently available 1.5 HP or larger dust collectors will do the job…

Ideally, the dust port on the tool should match the plumbing back to the DC. It doesn't really happen that way usually does it? For that reason, as well as some disagreement with Bill Pentz on duct size effectiveness, I went with 4" myself. So far so good, I just hope Bill isn't right on that account…


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## Cato (May 1, 2009)

Tennwood said:


> *A journey into the dust and chips - installing a dust collection system the hard way.*
> 
> I appologize in advance for being long winded here, just kind of the way I write.
> 
> ...


Tennwood, I found this to be a great blog, as I just ordered the same PennState unit 2 days ago. Right now I have created some more workspace by expanding into the other half of the two car garage, so I located my table saw close to where the DC will be. 
Like Scott Bryan, I will probably move hoses around for a bit until I have completed some equipment moving, upgrades, and rearranging.
Looking on the Harbor Freight site, it looks like their fittings and hose cost a bit less than that at Woodcraft, so you might could save a bit on hose there in the future. I don't mind being the guinea pig and trying some from HF once my DC comes in, and will report back.


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## oldwoodman (Feb 4, 2009)

Tennwood said:


> *A journey into the dust and chips - installing a dust collection system the hard way.*
> 
> I appologize in advance for being long winded here, just kind of the way I write.
> 
> ...


Tennwood,

I agree with Cato. I really enjoyed your blog. I did not find it long-winded at all. You write quite well, and that makes it easier to read. I found your experience to be very interesting. Sometime in the future I hope to install a dust collection system. I appreciate the time you took to share your experiences and post your pictures. Thank you.


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## Tennwood (Sep 9, 2009)

Tennwood said:


> *A journey into the dust and chips - installing a dust collection system the hard way.*
> 
> I appologize in advance for being long winded here, just kind of the way I write.
> 
> ...


dbhost - Thank for the input, you have some very valid points. 
As far as the Ys on the PVC, I had intended to go that route but Lowes didn't have any in the thin walled PVC so I went with the Ts. But your point in quite true. 
I had intended it to be more like Patrick Jaromin's shop. He does ues the Ys. As a side note, I just got a copy of Woodcraft Magizine last night and Patrick's shop is featured with some great pictures. I would say his is a premire example of how a DC system (and small shop) should be set up. Maybe next time around.
I had to use the odd configuration on the band saw because of the odd sized outlet and I wanted to use the 2-1/2-inch line because of its flexibility. (or at least more flexible than the 4-inch black line) On all my tools, I want to be able to move them around some so I can work with large or odd size wood, etc. and the 2-1/2-inch line gives me that flexibility. But I agree, this was an inefficient way of doing it.
Why two blast gates on the router? - I had two 2-1/2-inch gates in my collection and had already been running one on the fence before I built the system. Again - not effecient but it works.
I saw that Thien separator a while ago, I think from your site. This is definitly part of the plan down the line.

Cato - I wish I knew that Harbor Freight carried the fittings. I have a HF store about 15 minutes from work.

Thanks for everyone's input.

jim


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## HMWWAWCC (Jun 26, 2011)

Tennwood said:


> *A journey into the dust and chips - installing a dust collection system the hard way.*
> 
> I appologize in advance for being long winded here, just kind of the way I write.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that great info Tennwood!
I'm starting out in DC as well. I found the 4" sched 20 drain pipe on my own (didn't think to look here til now).
I found a few items I'd like to share. Most of these are for the guy starting a DC system or, dare I say, DC on the cheap? This may be ruminated info but please don't yell at me. I wanna be a good lil woodworker:
1. 4" solid sched 20 drain pipe accommodates 3" sched 40 PVC fitting hubs rather well. The 3" fittings fit INSIDE the 4" pipe. This allows for adding Y's at tool connection locations. Large hose clamps ($1ea) make tight connections. The wire type clamps don't do it for me. Remember, use Y and 90 deg SWEEP fittings. You can also use 2' or 3' lengths of 4" flex DC hose for long, easy corner turns. 3" caps fit nicely into the end of the 4" line and allow for easy removal for main line clean out.
2. 3" Black solid flexible (corrugated) drain pipe (at $5/ 8' at the orange and blue DIY stores) fits into (grey or black) 4" flexible DC hose and over blast gates for a fairly good and inexpensive connection. That same 4" (grey or black) flex hose fits tightly over 3" PVC hubs without a clamp. Takes some muscle to get it on the hub. I found using an 18"L piece of 1by stock slides the hose over the hub easily and saves fingernails. The trade-off here is the corrugated pipe is not smooth on the inside and so creates turbulance - robs efficiency from the DC unit.
3. Beware of Bernoulli's findings: Same volume of air thru different diameter pipe = changes in pressure and speed. You need to keep the air speed up. Too large diameter = slow air and build-up/ clogs. Too small = faster air but low pressure/ loss of efficiency at the collector. You might shut down all your unused blast ports to use a tool, that will result in great pull at the collection point but slow air thru the main trunk. I went for a 2hp DC unit for the added capacity - run or throttle an extra port open (like one on the far end of the system) to keep the flow to the unit. My cheapie design (4" sched 20 into 3" fittings) is okay for starters but the changes in pressure at each fitting are robbing me in the long run. 
I finally have the shop I've always dreamed about. My old "good enough" shop burned down a year ago after a prairie fire swept into our community. Lost ALL of my tools, motorcycle, you name it. Good insurance got back all my tools and a beautiful, all metal 30'x50'x10' building with 200amp, 40 circuit panel. I got room, light and power like I always wanted. Now to get serious with those tools And take some time to ride that new scoot too!! Thanks for your ear and thanks for a great source of info. Work safe!


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## Shopbythestream (Jul 16, 2014)

Tennwood said:


> *A journey into the dust and chips - installing a dust collection system the hard way.*
> 
> I appologize in advance for being long winded here, just kind of the way I write.
> 
> ...


Great posts and replies. Really appreciate all the comments, input, and experience.

Tennwood: I am so grateful that you took the time to write out what you did, and take all the documentary photos to help illustrate your work. Amazing job!! Thank you!

I am in the midst of set up and currently have a 1 HP DC with flex hose I move around as needed. Still experimenting with tool location and tool stand set ups etc. Wonderful to have a resource such as this to learn from others experiences, both success and " issues". Thank you all for sharing. and dbhost for the great info on bends, sweeps, flow etc written so a non techie such as myself can understand.


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## Tennwood (Sep 9, 2009)

Tennwood said:


> *A journey into the dust and chips - installing a dust collection system the hard way.*
> 
> I appologize in advance for being long winded here, just kind of the way I write.
> 
> ...


Shop
Thanks for looking over this old post. Since then I have revamped my system twice. The last was a major overhaul this winter. I still have the same DC but am using the Dust Deputy on top of a metal trash can to collect 95% of the dust and chips. I had a trash can lid cyclone top before that did ok but still a lot went into the DC and DC bag. That isn't a huge deal but I hate changing the bag and cleaning the filter. The D.D. seems to do a good job. I have also collected more tools (table saw, jointer, etc.) that spit out a lot of chips so having the trash can to collect it all make life much easier. 
I also revamped much of the piping to go around the entire shop. I didn't replace all the T connections to Y connections like I should have but did where it was being re-routed. I actually have a run to my jointer that is about 30+ feet and do not have any issues with suction. I know most people recommend nothing over 20 feet.
Good luck and breath easy.


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## Shopbythestream (Jul 16, 2014)

Tennwood said:


> *A journey into the dust and chips - installing a dust collection system the hard way.*
> 
> I appologize in advance for being long winded here, just kind of the way I write.
> 
> ...


Tenn!
Thanks for the reply! I appreciate it. One question, sounds like over the 4.923  years since your first post, you have stuck with the PVC. That is the decision I am currently facing. Are you still ok with all that? If you were to do it all over again, would you go the PVC route?

Personally I am leaning in that direction as I would rather cut and glue PVC than cut and mess with metal duct. (I hate working with metal duct!!)

It seems like (no pun intended of course) the nice smooth PVC would be very suitable. it is easy to cut and glue up, and installing/including clean outs is easy as well.

Any tips/thoughts etc would be read with great interest.


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## Tennwood (Sep 9, 2009)

Tennwood said:


> *A journey into the dust and chips - installing a dust collection system the hard way.*
> 
> I appologize in advance for being long winded here, just kind of the way I write.
> 
> ...


Shop
Sorry for not responding earlier. I don't check my log-in very often.
I still like the PVC. To me it is easier and cheaper to hang and connect. The biggest problem I had with it is getting the plastic connection adapters to fit the PVC. I think it is a bit of a crap shoot on where the best source is. Most of mine are from Woodcraft. The ones from Rockler fit a little better, but it may be just the day they rolled off the assembly line or which Chinese factory they came from. Duct tape is your friend. I can't think of any other issues that aren't stated above or are obvious. One debate you will hear is the static electricity issue. In what I have read, most experts agree the likelihood of an explosion happening due to the static created (which there is static) and it sparking the dust to create an explosion is very minimal.
Good luck.


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## GarySalisbury (Dec 7, 2015)

Tennwood said:


> *A journey into the dust and chips - installing a dust collection system the hard way.*
> 
> I appologize in advance for being long winded here, just kind of the way I write.
> 
> ...


I see you are going through the same frustration I encountered in doing my dust collection system. I recently built a 2,700 sq. ft. RV Barn/Wood Shop where I put the entire DC plumbing under the slab. Go to Week 3 of my woodshop page on Pinterest: (https://www.pinterest.com/garydsalisbury/woodshop-gary-salisbury/) I used 6" schedule 40 PVC and was that ever a job! That stuff is big, heavy and expensive. However, if I had to do it again, I would probably do the same thing. PVC works better than metal underground.

The biggest frustration for a novice here was learning that just because they call it a 6" or 4" pipe, doesn't mean it is. As to PVC supply pipe (intended for plumbing) there is schedule 120, 80, 40 and 20. None of these will interchange because the wall thickness is different so the fittings are unique to each schedule. (Plumbing standards refer to internal dimensions, not external.) Then in addition to that, there are a whole different set of pipe standards for DWV (Drain, Waste, Vent) pipe and none of those interchange with the supply pipe standards. No wonder plumbers make so much money. It takes a PhD in plumbing to know the differences.

So everything underground went well until the risers come above ground to attach a machine to the DC system. Then nothing fit together. So I wound up capping my 6" PVC risers with flat caps that I had cut a 4" hole in. This is where I transition to the Dust Collection Piping Standard. I bought some plastic dust collection ports (Woodstock T23852 - 4" Connector) from Grizzly and bolted them to the caps. Then I used a rubber union to connect that to a wye fitting and two more rubber unions to aluminum blast gates. Plumbing unions are too big so go to Rockler or Woodcraft for Dust Right® 4'' Rubber Union for Dust Collection. Each blast gate is attached to a flexible hose that is attached to the individual machine.

My dust collector is currently the Jet Vortex 1100 hidden under a sound insulated stair enclosure. I am curious to see how it performs under a heavy load of multiple machines running. I may have to upgrade to a cyclone if it falls short.

Note: I used long-sweep wyes and long sweep 90s on my underground 6" PVC system. No Tees like you used here. I recommend you change the Tees out for Wyes for better airflow. You need to avoid using Tees at all costs in a dust collection system. Dust flow follows different rules than water flow does.

Also, you could be experiencing leakage because some of your blast gates are installed upside down. Flip them over and see if it improves and don't ask me how I know this.

Additional Note: It appears from the reading I have done that the myth of static build up using PVC pipe has been debunked. Does everyone else share that conclusion or will I have to run bare copper wire inside my 6" PVC pipes?


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## gokart (Jan 30, 2018)

Tennwood said:


> *A journey into the dust and chips - installing a dust collection system the hard way.*
> 
> I appologize in advance for being long winded here, just kind of the way I write.
> 
> ...


I have a question i am being told that grounding of all the tools to the DC is a must to prevent fires due to static electricity. can someone answer with certaintie that is the case Thanks in advance. FRED


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## Tennwood (Sep 9, 2009)

Tennwood said:


> *A journey into the dust and chips - installing a dust collection system the hard way.*
> 
> I appologize in advance for being long winded here, just kind of the way I write.
> 
> ...


Fred
There are two very diverse camps on this subject, but from what I have read and listened to, including the FWW's Shop Talk podcast, the likelihood of an explosion or other problems by not grounding is extremely remote at best. There has been no documented explosions because of not grounding PVC ducting. The static does build up though as I have been shocked a couple of times when I touched the pipes after using the DC. But if you are concerned, I believe grounding the pipes is neither difficult nor expensive.


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