# Vintage drills of your dreams



## Bertha

Hand drills.

Augers.

Bit braces.

This is your new home. Show off yours!


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## Bertha

This is my baby:





































They make a nice decoration, if nothing else:










I have others in need of attention:


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## neandernormite

not pretty like yours Al but they makes some pretty holes


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## WayneC

Here are some. I need to get out into the shop and take some photos…


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## Bertha

Neander enters the race with a SOLID collection of bits. I want that chest drill so bad I can feel it in my soul.


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## RGtools

I'll get my pics up soon.


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## Bertha

OMG, Wayne's typing while I'm typing. Stupendous! Why do we like those straight slots so.


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## Bertha

RG, waiting, as if in labor.


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## neandernormite

Of course right after Wayne comes along and makes my bits look petty. man, I felt good about myself for a bit.


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## WayneC

: ^ (

Sorry Sir, I was just putting up the photos I have on flickr. I need to go get some current shots.


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## neandernormite

I am lovingly staring at your collection, emm, assortment of users, just wishing I had them


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## Beginningwoodworker

Nice collection.


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## donwilwol

I can't post it 'till I clean it up. Looks just like Al's first one. No bits. Worked today getting dust collection on an old craftsman (kingsley) jointer. Everybody needs 2!


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## CharlieM1958

This might not be the best one ever, but considering I picked it up at an estate sale for $5.00 , I'll call it a gloat.


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## WayneC

It looks like a great drill Charlie.


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## dbol

Can someone explain what is a good hand drill or point to a good site. 
I have seen many and own a couple. But don't know what to look for.


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## WayneC

Some links

http://oldtoolheaven.com/hand_drills/Featured.htm

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/better-than-new-restored-eggbeater-drills

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/a-visual-guide-to-meat-powered-drills

http://www.wktools.com/

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/the-north-bros-1530-and-im-running-out-of-superlatives

http://www.sydnassloot.com/brace.htm


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## pierce85

Not very impressive but it's the only one I have - works well though. I have no idea about manufacturer.


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## Bertha

I'm in loooooove.


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## mafe

Hi guys,
Wonderful braces there, I think we have to ask our friend Jamie to show what he has.
When I get back from Paris I will make some photos of what I can make holes with.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## Bertha

Moar!


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## DaddyZ

Great Idea starting a format for the braces & bits!!

Mine will be added soon, I just got rid of approx 30 bits cause I just had to many.

Sweet looking pics so far though, keep em coming.

Neandermite - wait till you see my bits - Mine are shamefull, no box & all black in color.


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## WayneC

I will try to get some stuff from the shop and some more photos today.


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## Bertha




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## Bertha

For Wayne, Krenov:










powerful image.


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## DaddyZ

Bertha - Just a comment but arn't the kids fingernails painted?


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## Bertha

DaddyZ, wannabe's. Can't paint the nails the old fashioned way. By work.

I live in coal country. I'm an educated snob that wishes he'd gone the other route. I'm down for a day's work, but I always feel a bit soft when I come up against a miner. I have more respect for the trades that anyone can imagine.


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## DaddyZ

Yeah, that sure looks rough !!!

Here is something that guy needs for cleaning himself up after a day like that









Sandpaper Storage !!!


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## Bertha

I like the way you think, Daddy.


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## mafe

That was a beautiful image of Krenov.
I love it.


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## Bertha

It's powerful, ain't it, Mads?
I want to see this image of you in 20 years, chronically engrimed, soiled, proper.


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## Dennisgrosen

that´s potrait of Krenov is in the top ten of potrait I ever have seen and I have seen alot and taken a few 
these kind of potrait´s say´s alot more about the person than those standard picture´s 
the photostudio´s take

but here here is my little collection of none restored drills :-(
the first has only two jaws …. Brand unown sofare … the closet and the tools 
was in the house when we bought it










the two I enherithed from my father










the blue one here has the same size 









the breastdrill you see here is smaller than the black and blue 









yes a few drillbits has arived too …with a brace … LOL









I know I have to clean them up and take a new fammely potrait …. but for now its still planes 
I slowly try to restore …. lack of time :-(

take care
Dennis


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## DaddyZ

Nice set going there Dennis !!!


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## Dennisgrosen

thank´s DaddyZ 

but wait until Mads play the game and you will be amazed over his collection of Drillbits ….LOL

Dennis


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## Brit

Here are three of my braces that are all dear to my heart. A Yankee 2100 12" sweep, a Stanley No.923 with a 10" sweep and a Skinner with a 6" sweep. If you missed it, you can read how Skinner was brought back from the grave here.










The Yankee 2100 is, in my opinion, the height of hand brace development. The ratchet mechanism spins like a top and it is a joy to use. A lot of people think that the 2101 or the 2101A were the best braces ever made, but they changed the packing material in the ratchet on the 2101 and it has a tendency to make the ratchet seize up after all these years and they need to be dismantled and thoroughly cleaned. The plating was also inferior on the 2101. In the US, you can pick one of these up quiet cheaply, but they can't be found in the UK. I paid a lot of money to have one imported from the US and I consider it money well spent.










The Stanley No.923 belonged to my grandad. When I was a kid, I used to go and spend a week with my grandparents every summer holiday. My grandad would take me to his shed and teach me about hand tools. I drilled a lot of holes with this brace when I was about 9 years old. Now whenever I use it, I can still feel his hands on mine, helping me turn it and keep it straight, guiding the auger bit into the hole. "Use your senses son" he would say. "Look, listen and feel the bit as it cuts. It will speak to you."


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## pierce85

Thanks for that, Brit.


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## DaddyZ

I know people have shown similar before, How do we as woodworkers get in on this ???

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Home-Cabin/Food-Processing/Smokers-Accessories%7C/pc/104798880/c/104723280/sc/104582880/Sawdust/715337.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fhome-cabin-food-processing-smokers-accessories%2F_%2FN-1101300%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104582880%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253Bcat104791680%253BRCcat104740380%253Bcat104723280&WTz_l=SBC%3Bcat104791680%3BRCcat104740380%3Bcat104723280%3Bcat104582880


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## mafe

Since I am here in Paris I can't take photos of my drill gear…
But you can have this picture of my newest pride, I bought this last week of E-bay and still hope it will come here before I go back to Denmark, so it can be a new member of the MaFe vintage club.
I have been looking a long time for one of these but they were always sold at some prices that was way off what I was ready to pay.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## WayneC

I wish I had gotten one of these when they were available










http://www.bridgecitytools.com/default/other-products/discontinued/ct-16-palm-brace.html










http://www.bridgecitytools.com/default/other-products/discontinued/17-piece-auger-bit-set.html










http://www.bridgecitytools.com/default/other-products/discontinued/ct-6-hand-drill.html










http://www.bridgecitytools.com/default/other-products/discontinued/pb-1-palm-brace.html


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## mafe

The first one is a real beauty!


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## WayneC

Here ya go…. Will go fast.

http://cgi.ebay.com/69-Vtg-Brace-Bits-Russell-Jennings-Greenlee-Hand-Drill-/200622433380?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb6076464


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## mafe

That is a really good buy, sad I have a ton of bits and a few braces…
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## Dennisgrosen

very nicde drill Mads 

Dennis


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## mafe

Just took a tour on my hard disk and look what I found:









An old brace with metal handle, notice the beautiful bit.









And one with a wood handle I gave it since it came without.
In the back a bog of bits (Japanese tool box design).









Here when I bought them, so I am quite loaded with bits…

More when I return.

Best thoughts,
Mads


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## mafe

Andy, my favorite is the small one, it's really cool.
Mads


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## docholladay

With that, I am going to have to get out the camera and take some pics of my collection. I love using braces and augers. When the bit is sharp, it is an amazingly easy and efficient way to make a hole in wood. In addition, I like using a small brace with a screwdriver bit for driving screws. It is quick and has much less danger of stripping than using a cordless electric drill. In this same category, I would include the automatic drills and the Yankee Screwdrivers. When I get down to the shop and take some pics, I will post some photos of my collection of those type tools as well.

Doc


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## WayneC

Here is an example of a Miller Falls restore….

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/24266


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## DaddyZ

Here we Go with mine








Drills








Drivers








Hope you enjoy


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## Dennisgrosen

I can see you are loaded too with future project´s Daddy 

Dennis


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## MrRon

I have an old Millers Falls brace from the early 50's in perfect condition. I still use it now and then when I have to bore a hole with an expansive bit. Sorry I can't post a picture; my camera quit.


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## DaddyZ

Dennis - Yes, Not enough hours in the day !


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## Bertha

Got it, Wayne. Thanks for that link.


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## Kentuk55

I do have an old hand drill that was my Dads. I haven't used it much, but, it's still there if I ever need it.


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## 280305

This is special to me because it was my Dad's. It is in the same condition that is was when he gave it to me. I doubt that I will ever want to make it look new again. I prefer to see it as the working tool that was in my Dad's hands.


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## donwilwol

This is all I have at this point. No bits, just the brace. It says Yankee on the knob. Ratchet works. I probably should try to get some bits.


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## DMIHOMECENTER

Very cool thread, Bertha (as usual).

I assure you that if the prices on eBay for braces and bits rise, it will not be because of me. I started looking at them, but then thought WHOA !!! and put on the brakes.

I have made my bed for awhile with all the planes that need attention and use before I move on to the next obsession. ;=)

One sickness at a time… but thanks for "hooking me" on the planes, guys.

I know this thread will be here waiting (and will be HUGE) when I am ready ready for a new "hankering" for antique hand tools.

DG


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## saddletramp

My Stanley #945A 10 in sweep brace, auger bits #4 through #16, two adjustable bits, a counter sink and a Stanley #1 18 in extension. I would have posted these earlier but I decided that this was a good time to clean to clean and polish a bit (pun intended ;^]) before I showed ya'll what a mess they were.










This one is a Goodell-Pratt #5 1/2 two speed hand drill that has not been cleaned or rehabbed yet.


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## Brit

Don, that's a nice brace. It is a 2101 or 2101A. Does it say 'BELL SYSTEMS' on it? Many of those braces were used by linemen. They would climb the telegraph poles with one of those braces hanging off their belts. Imagine using a brace whilst leaning back at the top of a telegraph pole. It is definitely worth spending some time to clean it up. One word of warning though. If you decide to dismantle the ratchet on these, you need to be very systematic and take note of exactly how it goes together and which way each component is fitted. Unlike other types of ratchet mechanisms, it is easy to forget how it all goes back together. If you need to know how to dismantle the ratchet, let me know as I have the instructions in a PDF which I'm happy to send to you.

Saddletramp - That is a lovely 945 and collection of bits. I see you have an auger file too. Do you sharpen your own bits? I sharpened all mine last year. Wow, what a difference!

Nice Goodell-Pratt too.


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## Brit

You've got to love these old ads guys. They really show the pride that manufacturers had in their tools during the hand tool heydays. I particularly like the text under the 'Try this Test' Heading in the following Yankee ad. If you can't make it out, it reads:

"Put Auger Bit into chuck of Yankee brace. Bore deep into tough wood. Then pull upward with all your strength. Bit will not come out of chuck. This test shows the relentless grip of Yankee chuck."










Also, notice the attire. I always polish my shoes and put on a crisp white shirt and suit before using my Yankee 2100 - NOT!!!


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## Brit

Brace bling (NOT in my collection unfortunately). All available from www.jimbodetools.com if anyone is interested.

*Marples Ultimatum brace in Rosewood and bone - only $2,600.00*









*Marples Ultimatum brace stuffed with buffalo horn - only $1,100.00*









*Marples ebony Ultimatum brace - $1,400.00*


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## Brit

Some more beauties from www.jimbodetools.com.

*Fenton and Marsdens Solid Ebony and German Silver Plated Brace - only $4,300.00*









*Pilkington Brace - only $1,600.00*









*Marples Ultimatum brace. Solid Ivory with an Ebony Ring - $$$ You've got to call Jim for the price of this one and we all know what that means. Make sure you're sitting down first.*


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## Brit

Have you had enough yet? No? Ok, here's some early brace examples from www.jimbodetools.com

*17th century Burl Curved Sweep Dutch-Style Bit Brace.*









*Stunning Early Tiger Maple Bit Brace*









*18th century French Bit Brace in Cormier Wood*









*Early Beech Chairmakers Brace with Spoon Bit*









*18th Century Scandinavian Iron and Brass Bit Brace*


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## mafe

Wauuuu Andy those are amazing!
On my to do list is a brace like 'Early Tiger Maple Bit Brace', I need to make one of those, just need to find the piece of wood first… (Wood is really expensive here).

I'm back in Copenhagen.









I just bought this last week.
It will need some love, but I am sure it will be a favorite to use.

Best thoughts,
Mads


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## mafe

I was lucky my wonderful old French drill arived before I left Paris, so yesterday I had time to give it some love, and this morning I sew it a little drill roll of leather.

Big smile in Copenhagen,
Mads


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## Brit

Have you ever considered the development of hand drills. We have it easy nowadays with the seemingly endless variety of lithium powered cordless drills available to us. But remember that there wasn't any internet way back when man first tried to drills holes in wood. Tools were developed more or less in isolation, without necessarily knowing what ideas people in other countries were coming up with. Craftsmen around the world were INDEPENDENTLY inventing ingenious ways to drill holes, always trying to make it easier, the results more repeatable and the tools more reliable.

Look at this example of an early Japanese hand drill from www.jimbodetools.com. The craftsman would rub the handle back and forth between the palms of his hands. Can you imagine the effort involved just to make one hole?










Look at this Holtzapffel Bow Drill. Used with a bow wrapped around the bobbin thingy. Move the bow back and forth to provide a reciprocal motion to the bit. It must have been like one step forward, two steps back!










And what about this early pump action drill? Rotating the shaft would wind the cord around the shaft which in turn would cause the handle to rise up the shaft. Then you position the bit where you want the hole and pump the handle down. The wooden flywheel would cause the shaft to continue to rotate after the handle had reached the extent of its travel which twisted the cord around the shaft in the other direction and raised the handle again ready for the next pump. These were capable of achieving some pretty fast RPMs once you got the hang of it.










And here is a later example using the same principal but with an ivory flywheel.










There are early Egyptian drawings of people drilling using bow drills. Man has felt the need to drill holes for a looooong time, but it wasn't always easy and the methods were often ineffective by today's standards. It took a lot of effort and an immense amount of time just to drill one hole. But where would we be without the ability to drill holes? Look at the tools in your shop. Chances are they have some holes in them somewhere. Ask yourself this question. If man had not found a way to drill holes effectively, how many of those tools would still be viable? So I for one would like to say a big thank you to these early innovators.

More ramblings to come if people are interested.


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## Brit

Mads both of those are gorgeous. I've bid a few times on wooden braces and they have always ended up too rich for my pocket. One day, I'll own one. That French drill is gorgeous. You're a lucky man to own it. Here is a similar one I found on www.gilai.com going for $1250.00.


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## mafe

Look at these, I especially love the 150.

Andy, thank you for the wonderful imput.
Yes I have looked a lot into drilling, I do not know why but this and the planes seems to facinate me a lot. I am planning to build some of the more simple versions my self, the bow drills I have even bought the parts for. So many projects so little time.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## mook

This is a drill…









And a bit:









Like Mafe, "I have looked a lot into drilling" LOL.

Seriously: some beautiful examples of wood drills here. I have seen a few surgical drills both modern and old and these are fascinating too- somewhere I have pictures….What would we make without the ability to make a hole?


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## donwilwol

Hey Andy thanks for the information. I'll look and see if I can see any markings other than the "Yankee" on the knob. I'd like that pdf as well. Send it to donwilwol(at)yahoo.com.

I will get to cleaning it up. Its on my list that just gets longer every time I hit LJs.


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## Bertha

Andy, Mads, and Philip, these are all wonderful for different reasons. I think Philip's wins for capacity. My new set of braces and bits hasn't arrived yet. I'll photograph all 62 pieces when it does!


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## Brit

Mads - They're great and yes No.150 makes me smile. Obviously made to undo nuts. Nowadays we would mate a socket with a hex drive and chuck it in a dril, but in those days nuts were square, not hexagonal and you undid them with an open ended spanner or an adjustable spanner. You can just imagine the inventors excitement when he was sitting in the bath and came up with the idea of mating an adjustable spanner with a hand brace. I bet he couldn't get down the patents office quick enough. In fact he was probably still dripping with water. 

Philip - You're right, those drills are pretty impressive, but they aren't hand drills so they don't count LOL. I've also seen some fabulous surgical drills and don't they go for a pretty penny on eBay?

Don - I'll get it off to you later this afternoon UK time.


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## Brit

Here are a couple Millers Falls hand drills that are waiting for a bit of love as Mads puts it. I plan to do a complete restore on each of these, but like Don says, the list is long and getting longer and I don't like to restore too many tools without doing a bit of woodworking in between. 

On the left is a Millers Falls No.1980 (this one is between 1925 and 1940). It is 15 1/4" long, two speeds with ratcheting handle. Chuck capacity 0-3/8". On the right is a No.2B (circa 1929).










If you have an old Millers Falls hand drill you can find out more about it here and here.


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## racerglen

Nice links Andy !
What are the extra knobs for ?


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## Brit

They screw into the back of the casting to give extra support when drilling. Essentially they help you prevent the drill body from turning as the bit bites into the wood. I unscrewed them so that the drills would more or less rest on their backs.


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## racerglen

Ah the old counter the counter rotation thing !


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## Brit

Now you've got it Glen! LOL


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## Bertha

Anyone own a chest drill? I've always wanted one. I'm sure they have a proper name, but you know what I'm talking about


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## WayneC

Really nice stuff guys.

I have one surgical drill in my set. Not sure if I can get to it to take a photo. It is pretty plane jane, but well made.

Andy, I looked at one of the bell line man drills last weekend. They are pretty substantial. Unfortunately, this one's chuck was non-operational.

Mads, I love your french drill. It is wonderful.


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## Dennisgrosen

Bertha if you look at my comment above you will see three of them with closed body

Andy ..... wonderfull drills ...drooool

Mads you better hide them before the next visit ….. LOL

Dennis


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## saddletramp

Andy, yes I am in the process of trying to sharpen them. Boy, what a wonderful history of he hand drill that you posted but you stopped short. BSEG I didn't see any flint drills. ;^))))


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## Bertha

I see them now, Dennis! And my apologies. This thread exploded so fast that I missed a whole page! Those are wonderful, Dennis. I had no idea you were such a vintage drill fanatic, not that it surprises me in the least!


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## Dennisgrosen

there was one or two early in the tread with open body and gearbox 
looked alot like a miller fall eggbeater but had the breastplate instead 
and even though Mads showed some very interesting braces in the bigpicture with no.
I think the one I wuold like to have too is that one or simular as the woodmanswoodworker
has attached to his workbench it looks like an eggbeater attached in a drillstand 
so it works little like a drillpress

Dennis


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## Bertha

I scored this, but it hasn't arrived yet. If there's anything in there that your especially want close-ups of, let me know!










I'm most interested in those two adjustable augers.


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## Brit

That's what I call a great deal Al.


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## mafe

Hi Guys,
Philip, yes that sure is a big one.








But this one should beat it - lol.
Andy, those are beautiful! I'm jealous in a wonderful warm way, where I feel all the happynes for you.
(Especially the smaller one are a jewel).
My God I laughed when I read your words, thank you, I could easy see it. Running off perhaps even dressed only with a towel when he arrived, straight out of the steam bath.
Dennis, I will put it all away and we can play with Lego.
Best thoughts,
Mads


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## Brit

Mads, next time I visit make sure you've got some recycled wood because we will have to drill some holes. LOL


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## Bertha

I don't know Mads, I think I may win this one


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## WayneC

Al, What I want to see is the Mads inspired storage your going to build for that set…


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## DaddyZ

Bretha - Millers Falls # 12 Breast Drill in my photos Above


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## mafe

Wonderful stuff Al, good investment to buy it all at once, the parts can be really expensive seperate (and you save all the shipping).









Here are my rust… I mean vintage drill bits.
Now you know why I want to look into electrolysis.









Today I made a tool roll for my favorites, the old handforged spirals with round heads, and others that fit the old French. 
Andy, notice the one on left it was a bit few of the old carpenters had once - it is for the split bolts on the old saws.









Here my braces…









Here my little egg beater. (Cordell-Pratt USA).
It has a hollow handle for bits.









These are a pair of my favorites, I love them for the simplicity.









This one for the madness, this guy probaly also ran wet out the shower…

Before I end I will show of my Paris shopping:
(Not only woman likes to shop in Paris - lol).









Favorites are, 
Important is Dremmel metal cutter, so I can be faster now… and my LJ friends will stop laughing at me.









Favorites all; a old wonderful spanner, saw file, a thin file, two old beautiful folding rulers, brass back saw.
But best are the plane Caroline gave me, and the wonderful piece of wood Sodabowsi brought me at our coffe in Paris.

Ok I will stop now, this becomes a tool glow now, and I usually never glow, but this time it was so light I could light in the night even. Laugh.

Best thoughts,
Mads


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## mafe

Wauuuu Al, yours are bigger than mine!


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## mafe

Did you all see this one:



That is creative.
Mads


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## Bertha

Auuugh!!! So much to look at, Mads! You either need a tub of Evaporust or an electrolysis rig. You could bind them all together with wire and shock them en masse. For someone who didn't know much about braces (other than I liked them) if you're watching out there and you don't have one…..you'll be shocked and amazed how fast they'll bore BIG holes in wood. I kid you not that my biggest Stanley brace will compete in speed with my drillpress and Forstner bit. And forget the burning


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## mafe

I always loved to use hand brace with the auger brace bit in, something facinating I never get tired of.
Have a nice evening,
Mads


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## Bertha

I can't leave my hero, Paul Hamler, out of this. Check out his tiny brace:










Looks nice, right? Look how big it is (top right):










http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/hamler.htm


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## Bertha

Not for this thread, but I have a pathologic love for old inclinometers. Unfortunately, I can't afford the ones I want. I'm hoping someday, someone starts an inclinometer thread.


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## Brit

Al, the Paul Hamlett brace is a copy of the Pilkington brace I posted in post #61. Inlcinometers eh? Hmmm, they do have a certain appeal.

Mads, look what I saw when looking for something else.










You might like to read the article here.


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## mafe

Fantastic Andy thank you!
Watching Forest Gump with my daughter - run Forest run.
Best of my thoughts,
Mads


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## Dennisgrosen

thank´s Andy 
great reading

Dennis


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## Bertha

Andy, MUST HAVE! That Pilkington is a thing of beauty.


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## Brit

$1600 and it is yours Al. The problem is, you spent all your money on that damn frog. LOL


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## mook

Mads,
Looks like Paris is the Mecca for exotic old tools-maybe you should send me selected stuff to re-build…..
In your post #90 what is that one with the crown wheel with holes in it? It looks like an indexing plate from a lathe-why is it attached to a drill?


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## Brit

Philip, an indexing plate is exactly what I was reminded of. Then when Mads said the guy probably also ran from the shower, I thought he'd incorporated the shower head in his design. It also reminds me of a kitchen utensil that my mum had when I was growing up for getting peas out the saucepan.


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## Bertha

I thought indexing too when I saw that drill! Those holes are begging for a spring-loaded peg to violate them Philip, Paris isn't too far from you, right? Why don't you take a hop and skip over there?  If you spring for the tickets, I'll meet you there, although I've had some bad experiences in Paris that we won't discuss here


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## mafe

Philip.
I laughed big time here.









It was not a trick of mine, it is born like this.









The plate is divided into four rings, each a ratio.
On the axix you see a little wheel with nibs, these nibs fit in the holes on the big plate.
A super strange kind of gears.









But yes I did look more than once when I saw it.
Amazing yes?
Impossible not to love this one.

Best thoughts,
Mads


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## Bertha

OK gents, time for my contribution.
I received a package.










For vintage clout, background is my vintage John Boos block, which served 10 years in Commander's Palace in New Orleans (long story, fellas). Yes, I collect vintage kitchen stuff too. If you're a kitchen freak, PM me










Let the hits start coming:










I'm going to drag this out. This isn't the last adustable.


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## WayneC

Yes it appears to be a box…. : ^ )


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## Bertha

Wayne, I'm having interface issues. This LJ image interface is the worst known to man. Have I ever mentioned that before?

Wayne, stay tuned, because I've got some gems from (someones) rec. Love, al


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## CampD

Right now on craigslist, W. Mass
http://westernmass.craigslist.org/tls/2455012879.html


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## Bertha

Oh yes.

Getting good:


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## WayneC

That is a nice bit Al. I've avoided the issues by using by flickr.


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## WayneC

Doug, Thats a nice looking box. Too bad they are parting it out.


----------



## Bertha

I also received a Greenlee and broken no-namer on the deal; I stll win.


























I'm so sick of this interface that I provide


----------



## Bertha

But here's where the pain starts:










OMG


----------



## WayneC

It is a nice group of bits. You will have to make a storage box.


----------



## Napoleon

My god all you guys got a lot of nice vintage stuff! looks like collectors-club now 

Mads how old is that french favorite of yours in post nr 90 ? its amazing…

Bertha that adjustable drill is make me jaloux  are they hard to find ?


----------



## Brit

Very nice Al. That is a good selection. I need to get some more auger bits at some stage. I'm not really interested in countersinks, screwdriver bits and twist drills with a tapered square shank though, because I bought myself on of these and therefore I can use any of the hex drive drill bits that I already have, with any of my braces.


----------



## mafe

Andy, so ein ding muss man haben!
Al, congrat, wonderful stuff you got threr, my favorites are the short thunky auger bits.
Napoleo, thank you. A good guess would be 1800. As I read in Andys link 1750 - 1850 could be the period.
They did not put dates those days and only makers signatures if they found it over the normal standard, those lazy guys… It is surely hand made and beautiful it is, I have a wonderful old hand made caliper set in a fantastic wooden box also, I will guess they are same period. Yes I am lucky to hold this in my hands, but even more to be able to use it, and not just look in a museum.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## Napoleon

I have never seen that kind before. i am at work now using a cordless makita and when i look at yours handmade amazing thing i start not too like this makita at all !  thank heaven for android/iphone so i can take a look here while i am at work  buy the way is it not your birthday today ? i have a little something(s) for you but i am not sure if it is today?

tryed to call but guess you are in the shop and the phone upstairs 

Dennis is on his way now to copenhagen and he will drop by at my shop and you are welcome to 

Now I better go back and work,but i have the day off in about a hour HURRA 

Ps can we see a picture of that caliper set ?


----------



## mafe

Napoleon, it on the 29, today is my sisters birthday (40), so we will be at a birthday party today, acually BBC in 20 minutes… Thank you for the thought, I heard the message, was in the shower, I'm a late starter.
Yes I heard a bird sing of Dennis in town. 
Have a nice day at work.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## Napoleon

Loool okay but a least one in your family had birthday today now that i was so wrong 

So wedneysday is your birthday then.At least i am no late with it as i kind of thought 

Hope you get something good to eat at your sisters place. We are going to have a couple of steaks and some redwine and maybe some sawdust


----------



## donwilwol

forgive the novice question from the traditionally power tool guy, but other than nostalgia, and a sense of tradition, does using these bits and braces have an advantage over the power driven equivalent (if you can call them equivalent). With hand planes I see the advantage and how the two can be blended for a superior product. Measuring and marking devices where typically build better unless you buy really expensive ones in today's market. I haven't been buying these types of tools simply because other than a collection, I don't see the fit.

Note I'm not suggesting they shouldn't be bought in either sense, most of you know by now i love the restore process, and just looking and handling the craftsmanship in these older beauties.

Mind you I do agree they are cool, and probably fun to use, but would like to hear the practicality side of things.


----------



## donwilwol

Andy where did you find the bits that use the hex bits. They look pretty cool.


----------



## Bertha

DW, the honest answer to your question is: nostalgia. I speak only for me. I have all manner of drills and drillpresses but the brace is the most fun to use.


----------



## Brit

Hi Don,

In the US you can get them at Lee Valley.

In Europe they are available from Dieter Schmid Fine Tools. Scroll to the bottom of the page and you'll see them.

In my opinion, even just having the 1/4" hex expands the possibilities of a hand brace no end.

To answer your question as to whether hand drills provide an advantage over cordless drills, here is is my opinion.

As far as eggbeater type hand drills are concerned, I don't think there is any advantage over a cordless drill really, except for the fact that you won't burn your work. I know you shouldn't burn your work with a cordless either if you use the right bit and speed, but it doesn't take much to do it does it? I think it could be argued that there is even a disadvantage in using a hand drill. Hand drills require both hands to operate them, whereas a cordless drill can be operated with one hand, leaving the other hand free to hold the work or steady a screw until it gets started etc.

As for hand braces, I personally don't think there is a better way to drill large holes in wood, short of using a drill press. They are fast because the lead screw on auger bits pulls the bit into the wood, so you don't need to apply much downward pressure. You still need two hands to operate them, but it doesn't take a lot of effort if you use a brace with the right sweep for the job. The bigger the hole you need to drill, the bigger the sweep you select. Also for tougher woods, use a bigger sweep. 12" and 14" sweeps are great for larger holes and generate a huge amount of torque. You can buy auger bits for use with electric drills and larger cordless models, but they are a different design, tend to burn the wood and get extremely hot in use so you have to wait 5 minutes before you can take them out the chuck.  Auger bits used in hand braces can get hot too, but not as hot as those used in electric drills.

One place where a brace really excels in my opinion, is driving large screws in a controlled manner. There is far less chance of ruining the head using a hand brace. For screw driving, you would select a 6" or 8" sweep brace, because the smaller the sweep, the faster you will be able to turn it.

I also think that you get more feedback as you're drilling using hand tools. If you hit a knot, you instantly know about it, whereas with a cordless drill, the first indication is that your work is smoking. I've never broken a drill bit when used with a hand drill, but I've broken plenty with my cordless.

I have corded and cordless drills. I like them and use them when the situation calls for it. But I also love using braces and eggbeater drills. It connects me with a simpler time


----------



## Brit

Sorry, I didn't realise I waffled on for so long until I posted it. LOL


----------



## Bertha

I loved every word of it, Andy. I couldn't agree more. The "feedback" is what sets handtools apart. I own a Hilti hammer drill, for goodness sake. Think I've ever trashed something going after a screw? I use a brace when I can for the control. Like you said, try to drill a 1" diameter hole precisely 4" deep. Mark the neck of a Forstner? Buy a 1" diameter stop? Nah, use a bit brace; it's like a little guy with a scrub plane, down in a hole, planing away


----------



## donwilwol

Andy, I often speed read the longer post, but I liked yours. It convinced me I need some bits for the brace.

Another newbie question, "what's a sweep".


----------



## Brit

Don I'll post a picture which illustrates the sweep.

In the meantime, here are a couple of shots of braces which illustrates their versatility when you start to think outside the box.


----------



## Brit

Now with the pictures! Doh!!!


----------



## Brit

Don - The sweep refers to the diameter of the circle made by rotating the brace through one revolution. As shown below. So the smaller the sweep, the faster you can turn it. Bigger sweeps generate more torque and are therefore easier to turn when drilling larger diameter holes.


----------



## donwilwol

Thanks Andy. That makes sense. I was thinking it was an additional piece.


----------



## RGtools

I am such a failure I keep forgetting to take pics. ERG!!!


----------



## donwilwol

I wind up taking them on my phone. I always forget the camera.


----------



## WayneC

Yeah, phone these days as well. Can upload them directly to Flickr from the phone.


----------



## Bertha

Alright, let's settle this, because I need a new phone. I've got a Palm smartphone that I haven't used in months (I have a work cell). Recommend a phone to me that Verizon carries…please! I'm sick of complaining about the graphics interface; y'all seem to have mastered it using phones (?).


----------



## donwilwol

I have the HTC trophy. Windows 7. I love it. Using it right now.


----------



## Bertha

HTC Trophy. Will investigate. Thank you, DW.


----------



## Bertha

Any other gardeners around here?










Not so different than


----------



## RGtools

Fairly avid gardener (5 acres most planted). My wife is really the planner, I just do the heavy lifting.


----------



## WayneC

No garden. iPhone user here….


----------



## RGtools

My favorite brace with my favorite accessory. This depth stop is hard to find but so worth the investment, it holds very true even when you try to drill past the depth you meant to (of course it you do that you clog the threads on the lead screw)


----------



## WayneC

That is cool. Not sure I have seen one before.


----------



## Brit

RG - What make of brace is that? I can see its a 12" sweep. Looks like a Stanley No.923, but the chuck looks different.


----------



## Bertha

Agreeing with Andy, everything looks Stanley except the chuck.


----------



## RGtools

Oh crap I can't remember the name of the maker right now, I'll wander out later but it's flippin cold this morning and I have hot coffee coming my way. I believe it was made in London, but that might be my 10 in sweep. I like building big things with big joints so this monster really makes a difference. The stop is set to the depth of the last hole I had to drill, by the way.


----------



## Bertha

I'm eyeing that stop with some envy.


----------



## DaddyZ

RGToools - COLD !! it's 100+/- here with no end in sight !

Lucky dog!!!


----------



## Bertha

August, that's my "rock garden" as my fiance- calls it. I've planted at least 20 different plants there. Nothing wants to grow, except rocks. My raised bed garden is rocking, though:



















Deers pulled those carrots, not me.


----------



## Bertha

Pics of dog are in order, August.


----------



## DaddyZ

Well my garden is pathetic this year !!

Nice Bertha !!!


----------



## Bertha

DaddyZ, you ought to see this dude's down the road from me. He's serious, big John Deere, the works. No shortage of outstanding local farmers here in WV. Our farmer's markets here are ridiculous.


----------



## Brit

Al, I'm sitting in my hotel room in Denmark overlookng the sea after travelling all day to get here. There's only one TV channel in English, so I turn to LJs for a little R&R.

I love this thread because one minute we are drooling over a lovely plane, then you casually throw in a picture of green beans and suddenly we're all discussing our gardens. The nice thing is, we're all totally cool with it. Pretty funny really when you think about it.


----------



## WayneC

I think this is the essence of the community. We have shared interests in woodworking, but it is not all we have in common…


----------



## SASmith

Seeing this thread sent me browsing through ebay. Where I stumbled upon this sweet ratcheting corner model
http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-J-S-Fray-CORNER-RATCHET-Brace-Bit-DRILL-70-/150620026160?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2311a73530


----------



## Manitario

Here's my "collection" of vintage drills. Both were given to me by my grandfather. I haven't used either of them yet, and honestly can't imagine ever using the angle drill, but it is beautiful to look at and reminds me of him. He told me that he bought the angled drill back in the 60's off a guy who worked in the machine shop with him, he never used it either but bought it because he liked the way it looked!


----------



## WayneC

The Fray corner ratchet is real nice. I've seen a couple of stanleys like that recently, but not that nice.

Rob, is the cornerbrace a Miller Falls? I was wondering given the sticker I think I see on it.


----------



## Manitario

Hey Wayne, yep, it's a Miller Falls


----------



## WayneC

Its condition looks wonderful.


----------



## Bertha

Yeah, that MF corner drill looks like it's straight from the packaging. That's an heirloom for sure. I like the beefy little corner chisel, too. Andy, you're right, it's odd in a GOOD way.


----------



## DaddyZ

Sweet looking hole pokers !!!!


----------



## Dennisgrosen

uuuuh those corner brace´s looking goood 
I have been looking for those the last 8 years now 
since one slipped through my hands , thought I had the ratcheting corner model
but somehow I lost it in the shop I shared with a plummer back then ….. I still can cry over it

take care
Dennis


----------



## Bertha

New brace to share. Stanley Victor with some brass goodies.

Three days in electrolysis, wood and all, followed by the brass wheel and buffing wheel. Coat of Briwax on the metal; beeswax/turpentine on the wood taken 180, 220, 320, stop.




























I want to try my new monster irwin adjustable auger. This is the smallest setting. You loosen a straight slot on the back and move the little gear to open/close the diameter.










Like butter into hemlock. Literally 10 passes at most.










I've still got quite a few to attend to. And my foot treadle buffing system.


----------



## WayneC

Very nice Al. I like the look of the brass…


----------



## Bertha

Thanks, Wayne. Do you think it's original or user-added? It looks like someone peened it with little brass plugs and the setscrew is missing.


----------



## DamnYankee

Mine in use.


----------



## Millo

man, what a great thread, together with the plane one….

Last time I was one was a straight hand-drill when I was like 8 or so.

I want a brace!

....is there a "jump to page x of this thread" function in this forum? This and the plane thread need one!


----------



## RGtools

I bet its user added. Any ideas on how to do the knurling (I have always thought you use a triangular file) I have not tried it yet, because I am not sure how to match it on the other side…wait a minute I think I just figured it out. I used to have to do that on rings with a snake texture on it, my next tool build just got an upgrade.


----------



## WayneC

I agree with RG. I was going to say I bet August got his hands on it before you did. : ^ )

I've seen lots of braces and never seen one like it.


----------



## mook

August : "damn dude i hate rabbits on my garden".
Your dog needs competition, then he would go for rabbits.
Check out my cats-I couldn't believe that cats would catch and eat


















rabbits that size here in NZ. Certainly in Africa (where I lived) they weren't interested, but some could kill snakes which was quite useful.
Would I swap one cat for Manitario's corner brace?.......Hmmmmm.


----------



## DMIHOMECENTER

Philip, Is that a bullet hole I see about 3 inches from that bunny's tail ? ;=)


----------



## mook

Not unless the cat was armed….


----------



## DMIHOMECENTER

Ewww ! Don't you just hate those un-armed cats ? Almost as slouchy as those boneless chickens !


----------



## Brit

Mmmm Rabbit stew cooked in Guinness…lovely.


----------



## mook

RG Tools: I am sure the brace has been customised too. 
You asked how knurling is done. it is done with a lathe and a knurling tool in the tool post. The knurling tool has hardened wheels with grooves. When the work is rotated the knurling tool is forced into the work. There are basic knurling patterns such as straight, angled or diamond such as that on the brace. The diamond knurl results from two wheels with slanted grooves. There is also a hand held tool which uses the usual wheels but you squeeze it like pliers on the work instead of the tool in the lathe tool post.
Examples:







Daimond knurl at left straight at right.








Concave knurl







Straight knurl on wood







Diamond knurling at right.


----------



## Bertha

Philip, a dummy, non-metalhead (yet) question. How is pressure applied from the tool post in a metal lathe? I imagine there's some way to advance the tool post to address the spinning piece. Is it a knob? A lever? the concave tool is the coolest. I like the ruggedness and bite of the diamond pattern. I've had these things applied to handgun parts, I'm sure by a different method, though.


----------



## racerglen

Milo..
If you want to get to the latest items on a thread
click on the green thingie that says 5 new or such and you end up right at the latest postings


----------



## RGtools

Philip. Thanks a bunch. I think I can figure it out with an engravers knife (although it may take a few minutes and a warm up piece before I get that particular muscle memory back) since I don't really have a lathe, (although a knurling tool is now on the list of accessories I want when I get one)

Even the tiny parts on your tool are gorgeous. I think we would all like to see what you would do making a brace.


----------



## littlecope

Portable, cordless, variable speed, reversible, no batteries needed…
I believe the smaller one is older (1920's??) and it has a stash spot in the handle for bits.
The larger one is a worker from the late "30's, early "40's. The shoulder plate can be turned so it can be pushed with the hip or belly. It's also a two-speed, the lower gearing allegedly for metal drilling… but I'd pass on trying to do that… 
My Dad's brace I've been using my (w)hole life… These days I keep it hanging handy, for counter sinking screw holes in a hurry…
They're not pretty, because they're still "in service"...


----------



## mook

Bertha, pressure is applied on the knurling tool clamped in the lathe tool post by use of the cross slide-you just advance the tool as if you are setting a cut forcing, it into the work -then the carriage is moved along for the length of the knurled part. That is the theory but in practice, as usual, there are some tricks to arrive at good knurling as compared to poor knurling.
The diamond pattern seen on rifle stocks is called checkering and there is a grooved file called a checkering file for this purpose. It is a slow process starting with one groove then the file runs in that one making another parallel groove with its other side, and so on. Then the process is repeated diagonally across.


----------



## Bertha

Thanks for the answer, Philip. I'm looking at a picture of a big metal boy & I understand now. Thanks again, al


----------



## WayneC

Not exactly vintage….

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bridge-City-Tools-CT-6-New-Box-Hand-Drill-Rosewood-/170661906216?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27bc3e0728


----------



## Bertha

^no, but very badass.


----------



## Bertha

August, do a crosshatch with a cove around the center. I love that look.


----------



## DaddyZ

My Cats have caught *Tree Rats* (squirells), till they were caught themselves !!!(coyotes)


----------



## Bertha

Daddyz, I have a solution for coyotes (5.56 Nato).


----------



## saddletramp

Just picked these up today. A Fulton two speed breast drill and a starrett ajustable parallel.


----------



## donwilwol

Bob, they look like they are ready to drill.

Al and August, I've got a 22/250 I built a new stock for. (see, had to get the woodworking into that conversation). It'll shot the balls off a gnat at 200 yards. I've taken coyotes out beyond 300.

We typically us beagles for rabbits up here, but i suppose if cats are your thing….....Can't talk about the ultra light 20 gauge. Its stock is still original.


----------



## mook

Wayne,
Are you going to bid on that Bridge City drill? 
J. Eco should take a medal: his products are limited mass production and absolutely superb.
I would think that a collection of BC tools in virginal condition would be worth a lot more in real terms than the original price in say 25 years time. It's what I would ask for on my first birth day. (


----------



## mafe

Look at this link some really funny stuff.
http://www.antiqbuyer.com/All_Archives/TOOLS_ARCHIVE/archiv-%20Drilll.htm
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## DaddyZ

Yea if any got within sight at the right time, They're History, I have Even shot them with my Bow from a treestand!!!


----------



## mafe

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content










Finally my brace arrived!
It is really nice Sheffield and the letters CHA… can be seen as maker, perhaps CHAPMAN could be a guess.
My daughter thought her bracelet should be on the photo, but acually I had a suspicious she was reaching for the hammer…

Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## DMIHOMECENTER

Coyotes: Back in '80's a friend in Tupelo, MS had a nice spread, but lots of coyote around. He had a cheap cassette player with a cassette (of a rabbit making dying screams and squeals) in a cardboard box about 100 yards from the fence line.

He clicked play and came back to the fence line and waited. Soon a pack of five approached, but 4 held back a bit while one went all the way to the box to look inside. Billy had done this many times, so he gave his scoped 30-30 a quick workout.

We are pretty sure that the last thing to go through that most curious coyote's mind as he peered into the box at the GE cassette player was a 30-30 slug.


----------



## WayneC

Phillip, no expensive tools for me for a while…. Just bought a set of carving tools. There are a number of Bridge City tools I would love to own.


----------



## Bertha

Mads, I suspect you bought that toffee for the hammer, you devil


----------



## mafe

I cant talk with my mouth full…


----------



## DaddyZ

Mafe - should have been can't type with my mouth full


----------



## donwilwol

Gun vise from oak. Stock - butternut. Grip - black beauty. Tip - purpleheart. Scope - 3.5×10 leopold. Checkering by me. Reminton 788, bull barrel, 22/250.


----------



## Bertha

Nice AR, August. .308? How you like that flip-out EOTech? I've got the same one on my Sig5.56.










So as not to stray too far (although we're all friends here), here are some beauties:


----------



## racerglen

Oh my..
Nice collection..
Er, like the planes, er, are those shop rated ear muffs ?

And where does a Doktor find the time for all this ?
Hmmmm…

;-}


----------



## saddletramp

I think that this "Vintage drills of your dreams" topic is headed fast towards "Landmines of your dreams". LOL


----------



## Bertha

ACOG? Wow, no expense spared, huh August? I wish I'd gone .308 instead of .223 but that Sig was calling to me.

Watch were you step, Tramp! A Marcou could be under your feet!










Whoa! I'm in the wrong thread; quick, August, drills!

http://www.found********************.com/antique-dental-hand-drill/


----------



## DaddyZ

LOL !!!!!

What kind of drillers are those planes, the high powered drillers I can see, but those planes.

Shame/Shame


----------



## donwilwol

now that's a shooting board!!


----------



## donwilwol

August, I really like that last plane. What is it? Where can I get me one? My house is almost paid off, will I need to remortgage?


----------



## Brit

Hey Al. I think it is time for you to step away from the computer my friend. You're posting planes (nice as they are) on the *Vintage drills of your dreams* thread. Was it a long day? LOL

I'm going over to the *Handplanes of your dreams* thread now to see some drills.


----------



## donwilwol

jut so Al doesn't feel so bad, here are some oil cans


----------



## donwilwol

August your behind. Should I rename it?


----------



## Brit

Don, you're killing me. That's hilarious. I love those little oil cans. I've been tempted many times to pick a couple up, but so far I've resisted.


----------



## Bertha

Thanks Don, I frequent two threads most frequently here. Can you guess which ones they are, lol. Here's an alpaca:


----------



## pierce85

This Pexto MB1-10 arrived at my door today…


----------



## donwilwol

careful how you load it. No cleanup for that one.


----------



## donwilwol

Al, I keep looking at the alpaca. Is it yours. I kind of see a resemblance.


----------



## Brit

Congratulations Pierce85 - That is a beauty. I'm jealous. Whatever you paid for that, you got a great deal!!!


----------



## Bertha

LOL DW! He's not mine, but I sure wish he was. My fiance' and I moved to the country with the notion of getting a couple of alpacas. The quotes to fence the property were staggering and we've got a few remodels yet to do. I think goats and llamas/alpacas are in my future, though. I've got a feed center right down the road, so I'm set.

Pierce, strong showing with the anti-varmints and Pexto. I love the beefy chuck on the Pextos. I might need to add one to my arsenal. Think we got enough support for a drawknife thread? Anyone else sharpening up a gouge for Spoontaneous's spoon challenge? I'm full of questions at the end of the week (Thank God).


----------



## pierce85

Al, I think that alpaca is yours and yes he does look a lot like you. Here's the original unedited photo:


----------



## pierce85

Andy, I paid $24 with shipping. It was a steal.


----------



## Bertha

Pierce, a man simply can't deny what's staring him in the face. The resemblance is uncanny Strong theft on the brace price, too.


----------



## DaddyZ

Don - I think I have the same small oilcan only mine has a dented top.


----------



## Brit

$24 !!! - Holy drilling instruments Batman. I wish I could find bargains like that.


----------



## WayneC

Wonderful drill pierce85…..


----------



## WayneC

Check out this drill on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FINE-MARSDEN-BROS-IMPROVED-EBONY-BRASS-FRAMED-BRACE-/130540039743?pt=UK_Collectable_ToolsHasdware_RL&hash=item1e64caee3f


----------



## mook

And there are more here, including a corner brace : http://www.supertool.com/forsale/july2011tl.htm


----------



## Bertha

14" sweep Yankee for Andy:










http://www.supertool.com/forsale/july2011tl.htm


----------



## Bertha

Wow!










MI35 As-found J.H.Morrison 1898 hi-speed brace; the second

I've had in three months, I'll likely never own another,

these are not common braces; all there, no damage, will

clean to be much nicer looking, it's one of the few

tools to have made it into production from a territory

(Arizona) prior to it becoming a state; a certified

gizmo that pleases both the UK and Bulgarian judges:

http://www.supertool.com/forsale/jul/t35.jpg $585.00


----------



## WayneC

That is quite the drill.


----------



## mochoa

Hey Guys, forgive my ignorance here but I am new to the world of vintage drills. My cheapo black and decker cordless drill just died so I'm thinking of getting something human powered. I have a corded drill for tougher jobs but I wanted something for light drilling.

Will an egg beater hand drill work with my round shank bits? I like the miller falls with the spoke wheel.

Thanks for the help


----------



## RGtools

It will work great. Just make sure the gearing runs smooth. The drill should max out at about $15 and should last you a lifetime. Grab some good brad point bits (twist do not start accurately at low speeds) and have fun. Don't forget to oil it occasionally either.

Good luck.


----------



## Bertha

Second what RG said. You'll love it. The bradpoints will keep it from wandering at startup. My prediction: Mauricio will have no less than 3 bit braces within one year from this date


----------



## mochoa

Thanks RG. The tip on the price is very helpfull, I would have paid more. I think I found nice one on ebay, buy it now for $15 w/free shippping. I have a few brad points but I will need a couple more.

Bertha, I'll let you know if your prediction comes true. ;-) Those braces are sweet looking.


----------



## mochoa

This one looks like a winner. My finger is on the trigger. I'm about to buy it. maybe this way I can get some work (day job) done…...


----------



## DaddyZ

Looks like a sweet drill to me !!!

Don't forget to oil the small Turning handle also


----------



## RGtools

That looks like a gem, I really like the handle. I wish I could see the back of the drill though, I cant tell if it is a single or double gear (they both work well but double geared drills will work better for tough jobs since they resist racking on the gears).

4 oil points I can think of.

Knob as noted above
Gearing
Where the wheel meets the post
The screw that the chuck goes on

Clean it and re-oil it once or twice a year.


----------



## mochoa

Thanks for the advice RG, its double gear.
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=120746823437
Can't tell the name brand though.
I'll clean it up one I get it and post some pics. Can't wait!


----------



## RGtools

I am sure it will serve you well.


----------



## Bertha

Put the brace to work this weekend, building a powermortise chisel rack


----------



## racerglen

Arright..
Doctor YOU have an addiction..
Heal thyself ..
Is that a hand power mortice chisel rack..?


----------



## RGtools

Nice rack.

Speaking of racks, I better get back to my ribs.


----------



## WayneC

Mmmmm. Ribs, I'm on my way… lol


----------



## SCOTSMAN

You know that sheep with abit of lipstick and some eye shadow could be a dead ringer for my sister el paca my a$$ that's a longneck sheep quite common here in the hills.Alistair


----------



## Bertha

Glen, it IS a handmade chisel rack for a power chisel. 



























Coat of tung.










Nothing special but a nice home and some time in the shop.

Oh yeah and cherry, with a paduak key.


----------



## mpmitche

My new Brace and bit set.


----------



## RGtools

I have got to get a storage solution going for my bits. I was hoping to trade with a leather-worker, but he is bit backlogged.


----------



## Brit

Mike - That's a nice set. Is that a Millers Falls brace?


----------



## Bertha

I agree, Mike. It's lovely. I'm trying to come up with a storage solution for my collection.


----------



## mpmitche

Yes, it is a Millers Falls #32 with 10" sweep. I got everything off of http://www.sydnassloot.com/ and the box was an unexpected surprise. Its not in great shape but its enough to keep the bits safe until I have time to make something myself.


----------



## saddletramp

My two latest acquisitions after a little refurbishing.










A Millers Falls #5 eggbeater and a Millers Falls #34 six inch sweep brace.


----------



## WayneC

They look wonderful. I'm hunting for a small sweep brace…


----------



## Bertha

Tramp, those look great! I need to put mine through some paces tonight.


----------



## RGtools

What's you price range Wayne? I saw a nice one the other day (stanley)


----------



## WayneC

Cheap. There are enough of them arouind here I will find one. Just need to get out some more. I hit a few Antique stores and a yard sale on my way to Columbia State Park yesterday. No planes or drills, but I did get some old detail carving tools and a Starette 6" rule.


----------



## RGtools

If I remember right this would have been $15.

Lucky #^&#^&^& on the Starett by the way


----------



## Brit

Nice restore Bob. Good for another 100 years now!


----------



## saddletramp

Thanks guys for the kind comments.


----------



## WayneC

Check out this combo brace/wrench….

http://cgi.ebay.com/LOWENTRAUT-COMBINATION-WRENCH-BRACE-Bit-Adjustable-/290591328901?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a897ca85


----------



## Bertha

That brace/wrench is too cool. It looks production.


----------



## WayneC

Yeah it is a strange critter….


----------



## saddletramp

It looks like something an abortionist might use. What about it Al? Is it a medical implement?


----------



## Bertha

It's not nearly menacing enough to be a proper medical instrument. 
For upgraded creepiness, Tramp, you need to look for vintage trephines.










I may or may not have a collection of these "hand tools". I'll never tell


----------



## DMIHOMECENTER

What if we MAKE you tell ?!!!



















lol


----------



## donwilwol

I for one, would rather not know.


----------



## Bertha

David, I'll see your thumb cuffs…
...and raise you a thumb press.










Hey David, while I've got your attention. I know you own a successful remodeling company; my fiance' wants granite countertops; I want concrete; what would you recommend to a couple in this debate?

No thread hijack; carry on with drills, etc.


----------



## donwilwol

You would need to change this to "vintage drills of your nightmares".


----------



## saddletramp

You are right Al, that is creepy, although in a way, not as creepy as having someone punching holes in your skull with what appeared to be a standard electric drill (saw that on some PBS show some time ago). You and David seem to have some very strange play-toys.


----------



## DMIHOMECENTER

Raise, huh ? I'm all in…


----------



## Bertha




----------



## DMIHOMECENTER

Al, I've seen concrete that looks absolutely fantastic… and I've seen it look exactly like "homeowner tried to save some money", too (ie hammered dog crap).

Concrete stains and polishes and embosses and clear coats, etc. It's really in the hand of the craftsman and the eye of the beholder and how well the two converge.

Granite is almost like diamonds, nearly forever.

Hope that helps.

And FWIW, I have 3 cm granite in my home.


----------



## Bertha

Thanks David, this is the response I usually get. I was looking for something a little different for my log home. It's new construction with all the commercial appliances, etc.; not what you'd really call "rustic"; but I was hoping for something a little less predictable in the kitchen. I like Zinc, but the fiance' poo poo'd it. I thought about a real industrial looking stainless; same result. Butcher's block would be a bit wood-overkill. There's a good concrete guy here but it's about the same price as granite and a much bigger headache. Granite it is, it appears.


----------



## DMIHOMECENTER

Al, we did hickory cabinets in a log home last year… fancy, though. And they used the hand pinged copper for the sink and the venthood and the commercial gas stove. They found it (had it made, actually), but we installed it. I'll try to get some pics, but they are out of town (I just tried to call them).

BTW, they (Louis and Cathy Blackwell) had us install the granite for the kitchen tops as well. ;=)

We have done several granite tile countertops with wood edge that looked great. Costs a bit less, a different look… very stylish but with some character.

Also take a look at Cambria (semi-man-made) quartz. It takes the heat better than granite and is more uniform (no "movement" in the pattern).


----------



## donwilwol

Al, I like granite and won't argue it may be the way to go. BUT…. There is NO such thing as wood overload. My wife and I have the discussion all the time. Its one of the few arguments she's just not going to win.


----------



## Bertha

Thanks David, all my cabinets are hickory but the counters are some kind of engineered disaster. I like the copper look but it's a bit too late. I went with stainless b/c I thought paneled appliances would be overload. The counters, sink, and faucets are about the only design opportunity I have left at this point. I want a pot filler over the range but I haven't decided on a backsplash because I haven't decided on the counters. Ah well, it'll all come together at some point. I should probably enjoy the cash in my wallet, as the island alone is 12' x 8'; granite's gonna take a bite.


----------



## DMIHOMECENTER

Al, when you get the c'top, don't get the short splashes of the c'top material… save that money for the full tile backsplash and undercabinet lighting. We do at least one of these a week for years.

My all-time favorite is tumbled marble for the backsplash. So rustic and gobs of old world warmth. It is timeless, unlike all the glass mosaic and subway tile we are putting up today, but will be ripping down in a very few years. My .09 worth…


----------



## Bertha

No risk about glass or subway; I hate that stuff. The tumbled marble is definitely what we're getting if we go backsplash but I like the smaller mosaic-type tiles, and she likes the larger 3-4 inchers. We haven't got to diagonal setting, etc. The backsplashes are currently log, so I'll have to decide whether or not I'll want to cover it up; maybe not. After putting in 4000 sq ft of hardwoods requiring subfloor and a new staircase, I'm already in too deep to recapture at resale. I won't sweat making the kitchen the way I want it. We spend a lot of time in there.


----------



## DMIHOMECENTER

Your fiance has good taste… lol

The hardi-backer will cover them logs right up !

If the diagonal is too busy, a straight bond with spun diamonds of the same tile are really nice. Also, running bond is interesting without making you dizzy.

Okay… back to drills…


----------



## Bertha




----------



## saddletramp

This ones for you Al.

My newest drill (hole maker).
+
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scroll down
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+

+
+
+
+
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+


















Well, it does make holes!!


----------



## DMIHOMECENTER

Hey saddletramp, Is that a .44 bulldog ?


----------



## saddletramp

No David, it's a Taurus Judge 45/410.


----------



## Bertha

Tramp, Have you ran the long Colts through it yet? That's a great trailgun; I'm on a waiting list.


----------



## donwilwol

Bob, how do you control tear out? Do you use solid core?


----------



## Bertha

DW, Wadcutters Tramp, there's a guy who makes outstanding holsters for the Judge. I'll have to do a bit of searching. I've got a BondArms .410 for snakecharming and the like. It's a handful but I figure I got a better chance of fending off a snake with a little scatter; the +P+ .45 still requires a bit of aim.

My fiance even does a bit of 100 yard drilling. Note the .44 speedloaders on the deck. Had to take the S&W out for a spin.


----------



## donwilwol

That type of drilling is tough on the benchtops. I've got a 308 competitor. Its good for drilling holes at longer distances, but harder to hang on to.


----------



## saddletramp

Don, Wad cutters and a backer board.

Al, I haven't even shot it yet, I just got it yesterday afternoon. I also have one of the Bond Arms 45/410 snake slayers. Unfotunately, the trigger pull on the Bond Arms is so abominably stiff that it's a real trick to actually hit what your shooting at if it's more that a couple of feet away. That's why I bought da' Judge.

If you can locate the info on the holster maker I'd be inerested.


----------



## Bertha

That's a Sig 5.56 above. My DPMS AR15 is .223 too. I wish I had bought the AR in .308 when I had the chance. They have really become popular since. I put a Sampson quadrail and EoTech on the Sig since. With the variable gas operation, it's got a very unusual mechanical feeling. It's hard to describe but it feels like there are all kinds of mechanical things going on inside of it when you shoot. Quite differently, the AR just goes pop.

I've got the modern stuff, DW, but I still prefer the vintage drillers.


----------



## donwilwol

My philosophy on firearms is the same as my hand tools. Buy them old and in need of attention and restore, rebuild, customize and personalize. I've got about 30 firearms. Very few don't have a dw mod somewhere, whether it be checkering, stock, barrel or blue. I've only sold a few in my lifetime, and regret selling a few of those. That's why I still have 25 Stanley bench planes when there are only 11 different sizes.


----------



## Bertha

I hear you. I have two types of guns (and tools for that matter). Old guys with character and modern guys with a bad attitude. I caress the old guys and say nice things to them. I toss the new guys around, knowing that I can replace them if they get dinged up.

I've got a soft spot for old Belgian Brownings. Although modern tactical weapons are expensive, most of the money in my safe (and shop) is in the old stuff.


----------



## mook

You guys and your pin drills….. ( (









I used to do some but it was bigger holes at ranges of 3000yards to 17000 yards. Then I went to sea and made a few long ones into the sea bed on top of 600 feet of water- initial diameter 36 inches for 30 inch casing….


----------



## saddletramp

Philip, now that's an impressive drill!!


----------



## Bertha

Philip, we're taking drillbits, not boring bits 30 inch casing; whew!


----------



## WayneC

This was the last major gun I shot….


----------



## WayneC

Here is a big lot of drills and bits if anyone is interested….

http://www.ebay.com/itm/antique-lot-hand-drills-and-bits-/230671116478?_trksid=p4340.m1374&_trkparms=algo%3DPI.WATCH%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D15%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D2780539283571056816


----------



## Bertha

If I had touched that huge cache of bits I recently bought yet, I'd consider. The seller could have taken a bit more time staging the picture, no? lol


----------



## WayneC

Seller lazyness = deal to be had….


----------



## Bertha

No doubt about it. If you ever see me dump tools onto my driveway and take a picture, offer me a tenth of what I'm asking.


----------



## DaddyZ

Definately a nice set there !!!


----------



## Bertha

^Showoff, Cr1 I love the vintage WTs. I don't use my drill press all that much, so I'm afforded the luxury of waiting and waiting for a nice WT to show up on my local CL. I saw one radial head come up but it was too far away, missing a motor, blah, blah, I didn't buy it. Check this out, Cr.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

OOOOOHH very niice 
just the right thing for a man who want to do both wood and a little metal

Dennis


----------



## SASmith

Anyone ever seen a parser drill for sale? Sometimes spelled passer. Just watched roy use one. I had never heard of it.










Here is a link of roy using one to inlay some brass:
http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/2900/2909.html

Some more info and the source of the pic:
http://www.watchman.dsl.pipex.com/two-legged%20parser/parser.html


----------



## WayneC

This is pretty wild….

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-HAND-DRILL-LARGE-WOODEN-KNOB-/310346156289?_trksid=p4340.m1374&_trkparms=algo%3DPI.WATCH%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D15%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D2996159438214963948


----------



## Bertha

Wayne, is it Franken? I can't tell.


----------



## Brit

SASmith - No, I've never seen one anywhere.


----------



## Bertha

^I'm with Andy. The first I'd heard of it was in your video.


----------



## WayneC

It is the first I had heard of one as well… Hopefully I will run across one some day. The use of the tennon making bits and brace in the video was pretty interesting as well and right along the lines of this thread.


----------



## donwilwol

First brace Restore, finally completed. Millers Falls 733 8in.


----------



## racerglen

Nice work Don..
But you are now TRAPPED..you have to at least dust off it's sisters…

;-{


----------



## WayneC

It came out great Don. Looks like you have some more in the wings.


----------



## Brit

Looks fantastic Don. Somebody give that man a pat on the back.


----------



## Bertha

Pat..pat…I love that elongate chuck. That's a handsome brace.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

now you are bragging ….. LOL
pat ..pat … but you cuold have earnt a internet hug if you had dusted the other of

Dennis


----------



## donwilwol

one more down. A Dunlap this time


----------



## Bertha

Nice Don! I like that fat bun.


----------



## donwilwol

gettin a little personal there aren't we?


----------



## saddletramp

OMG, I think that I just became a collector!! (say it isn't so) In the past I have only bought tools that I needed or at least that I thought that I would use one day and have passed up the pretty toys that I knew weren't ever going to be used by me. Just the other day there was a complete Stanley # 289 on Ebay that ended up going for $153.50 (I saw one of these in Stillwater, Mn. in Aug. that was going for beaucoup bucks) and as I have a # 78 that will get the job done, I pasted it up. Today was a different story. I was in an antique shop and ran accross an English pattern wood and brass brace with a "Thos Ibbotson & Co." marking. Even hough I knew that I will never actually use this damned thing for the purpose that it was intended, I snatched this puppy up without a moments hesitation or even a second thought. It was just so damn pretty. I'm doomed!!




























Do any of you Brits or anyone else know anything about "Thos Ibbotson & Co." of Paternoster Row, Charles Street, Sheffield, England? About all that I have been able to find out is that they made tools from the 1820s until 1909 (or maybe 1905-unclear) when they were bought out by William Marples and Sons.


----------



## Bertha

It's beautiful, I know that much.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

niiice ! 
now you have to buy augerbits for it tooo ….. so you still can say you ain´t a collecter ….

Dennis


----------



## racerglen

Hiding in the front row is an expansion bit that starts at 2" and goes to three..
now why did I buy that 3" Forstner ?..
Oh right, to make two clocks..


----------



## Brit

Nice little collection you've got going there Glen and a corner brace too I see. I missed out last night on a complete set of 13 brand new Ridgeway Jennings pattern auger bits last night ranging from 1/4" to 1".

A couple of weeks ago, I missed out on another set that went from 1" to 1 1/2". I'll get a good set eventually. Complete sets in good condition go for a pretty penny.


----------



## Bertha

Nice collection, Glen. I'll have to take a picture of my collection. It has now passed the absurd, numbering probably 200 augers. Their still in the various Ebay boxes they were shipped in. I've got a holder for my "most used" but I think I'll probably add a row of "favorites" to my plane till door. I'll probably have to build a second till if I want to display all my augers. They're just too fun to hoarde.


----------



## DS

The vintage drill of my dreams is one that doesn't have a short in the electrical cord! 
(This is posted in the Power Tools Forum after all, right? heheh)


----------



## Brit

*DS25*1 - That's hilarious. I never realised Al had posted this in the power tool forum. LOL.

*Al *- How could you and yes, take some pictures and show us your bits. On second thoughts, let me rephrase that. We'd love to see your augers.


----------



## Bertha

I'll show you both, Andy Andy, I don't think there was a handtool forum when I posted this, however I don't think it would have stopped me


----------



## Brit

You rebel.


----------



## DS

Next to a short free power cord, a drill with a fully charged battery is my next choice!

There are some amazing pics of some really nice vintage braces in this thread. 
Obviously, there is a lot of love and passion for these tools.

I suppose I will be the one who's sorry after the nuclear winter when my electric drills no longer work!


----------



## Bertha

I have a power drill problem, too, DS251. It's just that no one wants to see pictures of them


----------



## racerglen

Andy it's a Millers Falls 502, and I still see a couple of telephone installer vans around town with them hanging in the back side window !










But this is my favourite .









My grandfathers P.S & W 1001 with a 14" sweep.
No need on this one for your neat tool to adjust the caps on the handle, I discovered the other day it has tiny set screws for that ! But I did need the wooden block for a Stanley.
And just for good measure..










What apears to be a home built mechanics speed wrech with a walnut knob, three eighths drive

(post it notes everywhere..I'm trying to do an inventory, and keep finding stuff..and ID ing things that have been sitting for years, ah he- decades in some cases..;-)


----------



## Brit

Nice Glen. I love that 14" Peck, Stow and Wilcox. Set screws on the end caps makes a lot of sense. Some end caps are screwed on as well, so bashing the end caps with a block of wood as I had to, is not always the answer.


----------



## racerglen

Ah but it can be so satisfying
;-)


----------



## Bertha

Brace madness! There are a lot of nice braces on this thread. Good luck ID'ing all those braces, Glen.


----------



## racerglen

It's the ones that have NO id marks that are the problem..
not even on the chuck.
Have found a couple of Sweet Harts and a Stanley Rule and Level chuck though..
Rule and Level on a Victor brace..


----------



## Bertha

My go-to brace is a big sweep Sweetheart. I've got others but that's my baby.


----------



## Brit

I keep looking for a good 14" sweep brace, but they are not that common in the UK. They were known as wagoner's braces. I saw one a few months ago on eBay and just missed out on it.

*Glen* - post some pictures of the braces you can't identify. I might be able to tell you what they are. Two heads are better than one as they say and I love researching old tools.


----------



## racerglen

Andy..The pictures I have aren't clear enough..I'll try again


----------



## racerglen

Here we go Andy, I think I'm getting better with this camera thing ;-)



















and just for fun, these have been kicking around the shop for a while, thought I'd clean and sharpen them (and de rust a bit..)A couple of 18" Irwin bits, sometimes called Ship Augers, a half inch and a 5 eights..


----------



## racerglen

And a better look at the BIG boy, the 502, I belive production ended in 1922 ?








Untouched except for some minor cleanup.









I'll give him some BLO before he gets re hung.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

niiicee 

Dennis


----------



## Bertha

Wow! That thing's awesome! And huge!


----------



## 33706

Hey, how about this one! It's a "Leytool Major" 2 speed breast drill, with aluminum casting, adjustable crank swing (3 position) and works nicely. Possibly British-made. Bought this past summer at a flea market, just $10 or so.


----------



## Brit

Thanks for the pictures Glen. I'll see if I can identify them.


----------



## racerglen

no question what this one is..










my dad's virtualy new egg beater, I found there was a bit of the price sticker glue still on it.
And a Millers Falls Buck Rogers eddition..









(and where can you get the drill points for the yankee drills and such? Lee Valley used to sell some, but no more )


----------



## racerglen

And a big ol' Millers Falls breast drill.
It's a #12 and includes a level in the centre section.


















This is unfortunate, a Stanley #733..1911-1942 Unfortunate because I "restored" it 25 or so years ago before I had any idea about that, even though the Chev orange engine enamel is a darn close match to the orriginal..


----------



## Brit

Nothing to be ashamed of there Glen.

By the way, the 1st of the two braces that you couldn't identify might be a J.A. Chapman. Yours appears to be an older design than the one shown in following picture though.










The second one might be either an Obed Peck:










or a Quimby Backus:










It is difficult to be sure on either of them, but it was fun trying.


----------



## racerglen

Great !
'Thanks Andy, and we're glad to see the rumours of your departure are unfounded !
;-)


----------



## SamuelP

My first Pics on this site.

A driver at work knew I liked old tools and gave them to me. Free-bucs for the brace, all the bits, the ratchet screw driver, the wrench and a few open ended wrenches not pictured.



















I was looking for one to restore, but this one is in great shape. It works well and seems to have been used very little or well taken care of.

Again, all free.


----------



## Brit

Great score Sam! You can't beat free tools. That is a nice brace - a Stanley 923-10in if I'm not mistaken. I have one the same as that which belonged to my grandad (2nd from left in the photo). I can still remember drilling holes with it as a small boy. He would stand behind me and put his hands on mine and we'd drill hole after hole. I still think of him every time I use it. Happy times.


----------



## racerglen

Interesting new avatar Andy..
Does your adopting the Canadian national emblem mean you are coming over to reclaim all these British tools we've been collecting, er , restoring ?


----------



## Brit

No Glen. Maple is my favourite wood and I just got fed up looking at my ugly mug.


----------



## saddletramp

Andy, we are going to miss your smiling face. Boy, with everyone changing their avatar I no longer know who I'm talking to!!! ;^))


----------



## Brit

Saddle - My ugly mug can't compete with the colours and beauty of a maple leaf in autumn


----------



## saddletramp

Andy, have you taken a close look at *my* avatar? It could stop a 12 day clock! If we were just looking for beauty here, I could post a nature scene or a pin-up girl or better still, a pic of my wife but that is not the purpose of an avatar. The avatar is there so we all know who we are conversing with. So, I say man up!! Get that pic of your smiling face back on line!!! ;^)


----------



## Bertha

Brit, I'm just noticing, now that your braces are alongside many others, how impeccably restored yours are. I mean, I knew you were the brace master, but those things look absolutely brand new or better. My favorite is the little guy far right.


----------



## SamuelP

Exactly correct Brit. I know the feeling about old tools and memories. I am awaiting a rip saw that was my grandfathers.


----------



## Bertha

Andy, I think you might be the first person I've met to declare maple their favorite wood. I love maple too, especially its variety. Can't compete with walnut for me, though.


----------



## Brit

*Al* - I've always liked it from my guitar playing days where I had a custom Les Paul with a stunning flamed maple top. Last year when I built my brakfast bar was the first time I'd ever worked with it and I loved it. I know for you guys it is common as muck, but where I live it might as well be an exotic.


----------



## Brit

...and thanks for the compliment on the braces. I have a magic camera that makes everything look good. The little guy is a no-namer. It just says 'Foreign' in really tiny letters on one of the arms.


----------



## Bertha

I like foreigners, just not the band.










Custom Les Paul? You scoundrel. Maple is a wonderful wood and you're right, we're probably spoiled with it here. I bought some slabs from StockMaker that are ridiculously exquisite.


----------



## racerglen

Gee..
I've got a plane that says "foreign" as well..

Andy ! We've discovered a new brand name !!

But..Back to my mystery braces..I finaly found a mark on the one you thought might be a Chapman..good grief..the number 50 on one of the chuck jaws..this is getting serious.. why couldn't it have been 007…

;-)


----------



## Brit

I'm afraid 50 means nothing to me Glen. However if you feel like doing it, what would be really helpful is to see the jaws and the springs for each brace. That could help narrow it down.


----------



## racerglen

Actualy I was sort of kidding with the 50 reference, but lets see what we can do with my poor pictures ? First up the "Chapman" 








Oh, and neither one has/had springS when I got them …

back to the elevator..


























(I'm having issues with the picture posting..)
Last pic is the best I can get of the other brace's jaws..it's threading is very much GONE.. anyway..any help's always apreciated.
even if we aren't sure wether you're in Britian, Denmark, France or..ghasp..GREECE !
;-)


----------



## Brit

Glen the pics are fine. I'll have another dig around. By the way, Fri-Sun = England, Mon-Thu = Denmark.


----------



## racerglen

I kinda thought you were still being a rover 
How long does the trip take ?
I have a neice in London, she thinks nothing of a weekend in France or Portugal.. whereas we have to take 
weeks to make such a trip.. well, not weeks to make the trip, but to make several thousand K of a trip for a weekend wouldn't seem right. I know it's your work.


----------



## donwilwol

Safe travels Andy. My work from home gig is winding down. It amazing how fast 6 months goes by when you don't have to travel.


----------



## Brit

*Glen* - It takes about 7 1/2 - 8 hours end to end believe it or not. If you've ever seen the film Planes, Trains and Automobiles, then that's pretty much what it is like most weeks. It goes like this:

Car - 2 hours to airport
Bus - 10 mins from Long Stay car park to Terminal
Plane - 1 1/2 hours from Gatwick to Copenhagen
Train - 1 hour from Copenhagen to Helsingor
Taxi - 15mins from Helsingor station to hotel.

The rest of the time is spent waiting around here there and everywhere. The funs starts when just one of these modes of transport doesn't run as expected. Like a lot of companies now, mine expects us to fly economy and book cheap flights wherever possible, which of course are non-refundable and non-transferable, so I have to catch the flight come hell or high water. Well I've had the high water when Copenhagen flooded (only had to take four trains to go around it) and now I'm waiting for the hell. 

*Don* - Tell me about it!


----------



## racerglen

Oh boy..
Now that's a longer distance commute than I'd have thought..or more time..somewhere I think you left out security, customs and the like .. One of my friends lives near the U.S, border into Washington state..BOTH sets of guard types virtualy wave him through now.(eek..shouldn't have pointed at a poterntial Homeland/Heartland, CBSI security breach !!!!!) ;-)


----------



## Bertha

Can you get one of those retinal scanning setups like some of the pilots use? Someone at work told me that you can sign up for a fee, get zapped, and keep moving.


----------



## Brit

*Al* - Haven't heard of that, but they still have to scan your laptop, bag, coat, belt etc. and even when you've met all the requirements of the scanner, sods law says I'll be the one subjected to a random feel - I mean search. )


----------



## Dennisgrosen

Andy don´t be sad …. its still took me 7½ hours last time to get home from Mads 
usealy around 6 hours 
and how many Km do you cover in traveldistance compared to the 200 Km or so I travel 

just becourse you was angry friday … you shuoldn´t have playd with the oil on the foggy high-way

joke aside it made me sick to see people dont respect the wether and continue speeding 
even though they cuoldn´t see one yard 
and I do fell sorrow for the left fammilies …hope you hadn´t any related or freinds in the accident

take care
Dennis


----------



## Brit

It was a horrific accident Dennis, but they are saying now that it was smoke from a nearby firework display that was drifting across the motorway rather than fog.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

yes terrible it was … but till sad people don´t slow down when they see something like that ahead 
but its the same all over I think … the last realy big crash here in DK was in realy foggy wether 
and people still drived faster, on the motorway, than the law alowe on a clear day

Dennis


----------



## need2boat

Well I'm not sure they are the ones of my dreams but a guys got to start somewhere and these were rusted good but already in the family. Most likely my grandfathers or great uncles. I read a few of Andy's blogs on cleaning them up and although they still look a little rough they work well.










blog post

Joe


----------



## Bertha

They're pretty dreamy IMO. Check out Lysdexic's post from a recent estate sale at handplanes of your dreams. There were tons of braces there, tons.


----------



## donwilwol

I found a box of "stuff" I probably pulled out of some basement years ago. Think they are worth saving?


----------



## Brit

*Don* - No, but the question you've got to ask yourself is: "Is he just saying that to make me prove him wrong"


----------



## Bertha

I'll save them!
I don't know what they are but they're clearly tools


----------



## racerglen

Here's the "Chapman" after some love and BLO..










I didn't do too much with the chuck other than clean up. the rest of the metal got AutoSol after the rust removal.









that was the "easy" one..


----------



## Bertha

^d'you use the autosol on a wheel or just freehand it? I love that stuff on the strop.


----------



## Brit

Mmmmm - shiny. Nice job Glen. I haven't been able to find out anything else that would confirm it was a Chapman.


----------



## donwilwol

Nice job Glen.


----------



## racerglen

Al, the AutoSol was a wipe on wipe off and rub a dub dub, most of the cleanup was with a bench grinder wire wheel, a 4 and a half incher, followed with a 4 and a half angle grinder to get at areas I couldn't get with the bench grinder..

Andy, even after all the cleaning no sign of any mark other than the faint number 50 on one of the chuck jaws. strange?

Thanks Don !


----------



## racerglen

Here's another.









Not quite sure what I'm going to do with it, presently, and for years it's been wall art, it was heavily rusted and an aquaintance glass beaded it trying to find a makers mark. Nothing.









The broken top isn't repairable, chunk was long gone when I paid $2.50 for the brace.


----------



## Brit

Put it back on the wall Glen )


----------



## racerglen

Done and done Andy
;-}


----------



## Bertha

^I would love to own a bow drill.


----------



## racerglen

Wasn't it a bow drill that early surgeons used to relieve presure on the brain..hmm..
Al ????


----------



## Dennisgrosen

then make one Bertha …. LOL
havn´t you been boyscout … and used a bow to make fire with 

Dennis


----------



## donwilwol

Back some time ago I posted this 









I really thought that brace was really cool, so dispute Andy's suggestion to junk it:




























It still needs a little more polish and a coat of BLO, but I wanted to see how she drove. I still think its pretty cool.


----------



## Brit

I knew you'd take up the challenge Don. LOL. Its a bit unconventional, but hey, if it works it works right and no-one can argue with that. Did you find a bolt to hold the auger in or did you just ram it in?


----------



## donwilwol

i had to drill out the old bolt so its drilled and tapped with a 1/4-20. I put a short wing bolt in it.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

great work and looking good sofare 
thanks for sharing the second life of the brace 
now we want to see the other back in busyness 

Take care
Dennis


----------



## Bertha

Great job, Don! I love it.


----------



## mochoa

Hey I'm in the club now. Dont know what they are though, I need to clean them up to figure out their brands.


----------



## donwilwol

Well Mauricio, I see you've jumped in with both feet. Nice bunch of steel thingeys there.


----------



## Brit

Very nice Mauricio. Can't wait to see them after you've restored them.


----------



## mochoa

Brit, no red arrows of discovery? Dang, thats ok, I didnt think they were name brand.

However the two rusty ones (#1,#3) look like they have some nice wood. The red one will be me screwdriver (no ratchet). #4 looks nice but has a plastic ratchet switch thingy.

I got some bits with the braces and won another set. between both I have 1/16 - 16/16ths.

The hand drill is Goodall Prat (spelling?) and is pretty nice.


----------



## mochoa

DonW thats I nice brace, very simple and elegant design.


----------



## Bertha

I've got to start working on my braces and augers. You guys are lapping me here.


----------



## racerglen

Hot lapping !
No cool down time..

;-)


----------



## BrandonW

Hey all, I've collected a few vintage drills (I can post some pics of what i have if that's how I become initiated into the thread). My question is, what are the good brands to look out for? I know Stanley and Millers Falls, but what are the others?


----------



## RGtools

Spoford. (I think I spelled it right but not sure)


----------



## BrandonW

Thanks for the mention on the Spofford brace, RG. I learned it's spelled with two effs.

Okay, here's my meager collection. The brace on top says "Mohawk. Made in USA". The second brace is a Stanley (ahem) Defiance #1250. The egg-beater drill is a Stanley No. 1221. The auger bits fit nicely in a an Arturo Fuente cigar box.


----------



## Brit

IMO the best egg-beaters are either a Millers Falls No.2 or a North Brothers 1530.


----------



## mochoa

Brit what about Goodall Pratt? thats what I have and it seems pretty solid.


----------



## mochoa

P.S. Brit, how do you store your bits? is a cigar box sufficient?


----------



## Bertha

I've got a Goddall! I'll have to take a picture. I've got a big block of maple that I augered holes in; I keep the bits blade up but I've run out of room. I think I might build a dedicated wall cabinet for all my augers. I have well over 150 now, lol.


----------



## Brit

Yeah Goodall Pratt made some nice stuff too and Millers Falls.

Currently I store my augers in tool rolls. The important thing is to protect the sharp spurs, the tips of the thread and the cutting edges. Once I've sharpened them, I treat them as carefully as I would a sharp chisel.


----------



## Brit

Oh, I already said Millers Falls didn't I? Its been a long week.


----------



## BrandonW

I like the tool roll, or anything that keeps the blades from touching each other, but since I haven't sharpened any of them, the cigar box is actually the safest way they've been stored in the last 50 years or so, I'm guessing. I would be interested to see different boxes or holders for augers. My problem is that I'll be five or six at a time and so any good storage would have to be flexible.


----------



## RGtools

Rolls seem to be the way to go. I have mine rattling around in a box (on my list of things to fix Andy) and I have to move the box with great care to avoid the bits smacking against each other.

I would not do open storage either since they seem pretty rust prone.


----------



## mochoa

ahhh, I was staying away from the Hand Plane thread today because it was making want to buys stuff. Now I want a tool roll…..


----------



## Bertha

I don't know how to sharpen them. That elimates that problem, lol.


----------



## mochoa

Al, saying you dont know how to sharpen them after Brit went through the trouble of making that great video on how to do it? What a slap in the face.

Brit please dont take that personally, I'm sure he didnt mean it. ;-)


----------



## Bertha

I can't see videos on this computer And like Andy, I'm always here; never at home I will make it an absolute priority to watch his video from home this weekend!


----------



## Brit

Here you go Al.

http://lumberjocks.com/Brit/blog/25755

The video demo is at the end of the blog post.


----------



## RGtools

Mauricio, this is a bad site to go to if you don't want a big shopping list.


----------



## donwilwol

Mauricio, if you don't want a shopping list you best turn off the computer.


----------



## mochoa

If I turn of the computer how will I shop for saws? 
I'm still skimming the the hand plane thread, I'm hooked, I'm just trying to slow my slide down the slope, since I'm restoring two planes, 4 braces and 16 auger bits, right now.


----------



## Brit

Mauricio - Only 2 planes, 4 braces and 16 auger bits? Lightweight. LOL.

Actually, I know what you mean. I'm staying off ebay now until I've cleared my restoration backlog. At least, that's my plan. If I don't look, I won't miss it.


----------



## Bertha

^Andy, you'll look thanks for the link above.


----------



## Bertha

OK, let's be honest for a second:
How many of you drifted away into never-neverland watching the working brace in Andy's video?
I watched the little chips, mouth agape, intoxicated by their dance.


----------



## donwilwol

Al, i'm with you. He's the man!


----------



## Brit

Al - They do seem to do a dance. When you drill a hole deeper than a couple of inches, you should really back out the drill and clear the chips out of the hole before drilling deeper. I didn't in the video. If you don't, you get a very strange phenomena happening and I've no idea why. What happens is that the chips gather around the edge and suddenly they almost appear magnetic and start gravitating back to the auger bit and trying to get back in the hole. It happens in the video at around the 2:06 minute mark. I suppose it must be static but it's pretty weird.


----------



## Brit

Talking about vintage drills, we haven't really covered the old drill presses. Take a look at these old codgers.

A 100 year old Camel-back:






A hand-cranked blacksmith's post drill:






An old Colburn:






And a mint Buffalo BEAST of a drill press. Not really for woodworking and not really vintage either (1978), but wait until you hear him wind up the variable speed on this baby.


----------



## Bertha

Did I hear that guy say the Buffalo was found in the original crate? OMG, that thing is awesome.


----------



## Brit

Al - He said it has never been used. If only I had the space and the money and I lived in the US. Come to think of it, I'd also need to buy my wife something to stop her moaing at me. Nah! I'll stick with my Millers Falls No.2


----------



## BrandonW

Andy, when are you going to move to the US so that you can start purchasing all these tools you've had your eyes on? ;-)


----------



## Brit

Brandon - Don't tempt me. Sad to say, there isn't much Great left in Britain nowadays.


----------



## Bertha

^that's a little sad to hear. You know you're always welcome here in West Virginia.


----------



## Brit

Thanks Al.


----------



## saddletramp

Or Northern Michigan for that matter. Come on over. There is plenty of room here in the "Great" White North.


----------



## racerglen

Bob, you're a bit south to be north..and great..

;-)


----------



## donwilwol

Well Andy. I suppose I can stand one more guy trying to scavenge up my vintage tools, since you've been such a help getting them back in order. Although remembering the pic's, I think you'd get home sick, especially come mid February and 3 or 4 feet of snow. It make those plane rides home extra enjoyable.

If I were you, I'd pay the extra postage.


----------



## Brit

Thanks guys. You know, there are some things I'd miss if I left dear old blighty. Here's one of them:










You can't beat a British sausage sarni with Heinz brown sauce. MMMMmmmmmmmm!!!


----------



## donwilwol

awwhhh, now I'm hungry again!


----------



## CampD

Here's one for ya that I've never seen anywhere else.









only about 10" long, has some markings on the head, hard to make out
maybe if I cleaned it, naaaa


----------



## Dennisgrosen

AAH an old Archimedes 
great little drill

here is one more for you 










lets see it cleaned up and in action 

Dennis


----------



## Bertha

Two Archimedes drills. Awesome!


----------



## mochoa

Hey Andy, I just watched your video again. I never noticed how the chips strated clinging towards the end. That looks crazy. 
I need to get an auger file.

Andy you can get just about any food from anywhere in the world here if your in the right city. Up north is your best bet though. What is a sarni? I though they were called Bangers over there.

If your going to move to the states why would you move some place where there is snow on the ground for 6mo, where the houses are old and expensive and the taxes are high? You might as well stay in Britan for that.

Your welcome here in the south buddy, you can probably get a giant brand new house here for what you pay there. With a basement for your shop and that giant drill press.

Ok now I'm hungry for some sausage.


----------



## mochoa

Sweet, I found some leftover Jambalaya with sausage in it. Nothing fancy though, low fat, but its still good.


----------



## Brit

*Mauricio* - I think it must be caused by static because it only happens if you don't clear the chips out of the hole. It is usually preceded by a squeaking noise which you can hear in the video. Strange, but true.

As for the word sarni or sarnie (or sanny in Scotland), it is one of many slang words for a sandwich. It is most often heard when the contents of the sandwich is either bacon or sausage. In Scotland they call a sandwich a piece and every day mothers can be heard asking their children what they want in their piece. In Liverpool they call a sandwich a butty. They invented the chip butty and when I say chips, I mean chips made of potato that we eat with fried fish (as in fish and chips), not wood chips or poker chips or what you know as chips (which we actually call crisps). They are a thicker version of French Fries. Liverpudlians also have something called a Connie-onnie, where they spread condensed milk on bread. If you think that's funny, what about peanut butter and jelly, which we know as jam? Jelly to us is what you know as Jell-O I believe. In Australia, they sometimes call a sandwich a sanger or sanga. In South Africa it would be a sarmie. Scandinavian countries love their open sandwiches where they load just one slice of bread with goodies. In the east end of London (where they invented Cockney rhyming slang), they even have a slang word for a sarni. They call it a Georgio (short for Georgio Armani which rhymes with sarni).

You've got to love language and all its derivatives. I bet you're sorry you asked now aren't you? LOL


----------



## Brit

Mmmm Jambalaya. I'm on my way.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

next time you are in Copenhagen then ask Mads where the famerous resturant is with the 
ordre note of over different 1000 Smørrebrød you can have there 
just a note they ain´t with white bread its a dark bread we call Rugbrød
I don´t remember the address now but its so delishious and before you know it you have 
ordred ten and gone thrugh the dish …. LOL … just remember a good beer on the side 
is great compagianship to the bread …. 

bon appetit 
Dennis


----------



## saddletramp

Mauricio, you better watch out if you start talking about Jambalaya and a crawfish pie and a fillet gumbo. You'll have more than kinfolk coming to see Yvonne by the dozen, you'll have a houseful of hungry Lumberjocks.


----------



## Bertha

That's the worst part about leaving New Orleans, leaving the food behind. New Orleans is famous for their cajun fare, obviously, but equally impressive is their soul food lineup. White beans and collards, whoo man.


----------



## racerglen

An oldie but..



























Champion Blower and Forge co.
Lancaster Pensylvania , (YAH i KNOW NICE SPELLING,)
Vintage late 1800's early 1900's..
unfortunately I only got one bit with it, a 5/8" , with the bolt chuck it takes bits that have a flat on one side

But the 2×6 it's mounted on apears to be the orriginal .


----------



## mochoa

Brit, thanks for that little bit of cultural education. I love learning about all that. It's a big world.

The only thing I knew about British food is Bangers and Mash and Fish and Chips.

Cockney rhyming slang: so that's what it's called. I've seen that in movies and I didn't get it, very funny but hard to follow. I have to make it out to England one day. I've only been to France and Italy.

Now, I'm from New Orleans but my family is from Colombia and have been in New Orleans there for a long time. My grandma was actually born in NOLA (as we sometimes call it) but she grew up in Colombia. We have ancestors that came from Spain to New Orleans as it was once a Spanish colony. Most people have only heard of the obvious French influence. For example Jambalaya is basically Spanish Paella made with local ingredients, and spicy.

My dad makes the best Crawfish I have ever had and my Mom makes a pretty mean Gumbo. I have a pot, I need to make some crawfish one day.

Speaking of sausages. We used to make these at home every Christmas. Colombian Chorizo (Pork Sausage) and Morzilla (Pork Blood Sausage, taste better than it sounds).









The Louisiana equivalent Andouille:









And Boudin (Boudin Noir is the blood sausage)









Now this you can call Cochon de Lait (French), or Lechon (Spanish), or suckling pig (English). That's me on the left. Whatever you call it, its all good!









Are you hungry yet?


----------



## Brit

Mauricio - Starving. That food looks delicious.

Glenn - Can't you put a three jaw chuck in the bolted chuck?


----------



## Bertha

Andy, I think it was you that recommended to someone to dedicate a brace to a countersink. I took your advice and I'm glad I did. Way quicker than finding a countersink, ejecting the bit, loading the countersink, bit rolls off table, finding bit, etc. etc.


----------



## racerglen

Oh I'm sure I could figure something out, I'd just realy rather stay as close to orriginal as 
I can.
The ol' girl realy spins up nicely, by hand, but it's missing the hookup to a foot treadle.
Watched a blacksmith at a nearby historical site doing it that way..WOW..powered through plate metal like butter.


----------



## Brit

What kind of countersink does everybody use?

When I started woodworking I used one of these, basically because they were usually the design included in drill bit sets.










I recently picked up one of these single flute countersinks from the Beal Tool Company which will countersink a hole from 0-1". I haven't had a chance to use it much yet, but it seems good.










I also want to pick up some snail countersinks. They are meant to work well too.










What do other people prefer?


----------



## donwilwol

I've got 2 countersink bits, both just picked up from a big box store. For wood they both work fine. I keep one in a egg beater. Since i set it up I haven't used anything else. I had it in a dedicated brace at first, but found the egg beater a liitle more suited for the job.


----------



## Brit

Don - why do you say an egg beater is more suitable? Is it the faster speed? Doesn't it also depend on the diameter of the hole you're countersinking? For screw holes, an eggbeater works great, but if you were countersinking dog holes on your bench, you would be better off with a brace.


----------



## donwilwol

Your right, its the faster speed. The brace worked, and I am almost always using it to countersink sheetrock type screws. I don't have a countersink big enough, but if I was going to countersink the dog holes in my bench, I'd reach for my bigger (whats the chest type egg beater?) drill. Damn, can't think of the name now.

Plus, I find the egg beater easier to keep straight on top my bench. I tend to want my work lower with a brace, or horizontal. With the small egg beater it doesn't matter.


----------



## Brit

Whatever works for you Don. After all, it is the result that counts right?


----------



## donwilwol

either way Andy, you're to blame!!


----------



## Bertha

I've got a few auger countersinks. I'll have to take pictures. For my power drills, I just use the big box stuff.


----------



## DaddyZ

Racerglen - I just noticed your frame around the Pegboard, How are you keeping the wrenches attached, Did you glue them as a dedicated frame, or Pin them?


----------



## racerglen

The framed pegboard is actualy the bottom from a crib my grandfather in law made for our first son, after three boys and guests and wider than spec siderails it was recycled into a lot of things including that wall mount.
The wreches are hanging on nails (finish type) that are on the end of a shelving unit I built with the post drill and pegboard added after. 
Some previous owner had thoughtfully (?) drilled holes in the wrenches.
:-(


----------



## racerglen

For Mads..










Made this in 1985










That's the year my hand tool addiction started. I work early, it's just after 4am here, two hours in.
Comes the weekend or hollidays I CAN'T SLEEP ! So off to the basement shop, and hand tools are quiet.
The breast bib alows you to use your chest to push on the top of a brace while drilling without leaving a perminant dent. This one's Douglas Fir, about 6" long 4 wide. I traced around the pad on the lone brace I had at the time and then gouged out the mount. Left rough for traction..works great.


----------



## Brit

Check out this blog if you haven't already.

http://lumberjocks.com/planepassion/blog/27422


----------



## S4S

Wow ,these are really cool . Really nice to see a variety like this , thanks everyone for posting . Keep em comming


----------



## Bertha

^I'm loling really hard at moment today. He's destroying my watchlist


----------



## Dennisgrosen

I think you two have started a new trend today … 

Dennsi


----------



## carguy460

I knew there had to be a drills of your dreams thread…since I'm trying hard to show off all my new tools and attempting to post the pics in relevent threads, I'll go ahead and post on this old, lonely thread (Sorry Al):









BAM! Showed off all my new tools and stirred up an old thread…I love Fridays.


----------



## Brit

Nice haul Jason. I'd forgotten about this thread. It needed reviving I think.


----------



## donwilwol

Jason, you got some work ahead of you.


----------



## Bertha

Those are some lookers, Jason! I'd forgotten about this poor old thread, too.
.
Bump for brace awesomeness.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

with time it will get worse … sorry Bertha but the life knock on your door

good set of drills

Dennis


----------



## KenBry

The Flea Markets have a ton of Auger bits for hand Braces. I want to try to put together a set and need to know what to look for. Also how do you sharpen the auger bits?


----------



## KenBry

Any of you feel up to a challenge? Can you help me identify this? I picked up this Brace at the Flea Market a while back. It's been sitting around waiting for me to mess with it. It has just a very little bit of the lable left on the handle. That's a P near as I can tell.


----------



## KenBry

I figured it out, DUNLAP, God I love the internet


----------



## Bertha

That's one handsome friggin brace, Ken. I'm not an expert. We have Andy for that. Did you see that historical treatise when I asked him about a simple brace? Anyhow, I like your brace just for the looking, if not much more. I just like the beef of it; the fact that the knob is so large and the chuck tapers. I'm not using the right terms but when I look at it, it gives me a satisfied feeling. I'm going to have to take some brace pictures tonight. Can someone that's good with computers post all Andy's relevant bit links? I never figured it out. He had a phenomenal blog about the auger sharpening process.


----------



## carguy460

Thanks for the kind words…Don I do have some work ahead of me, between my braces, the drill, the saws, the planes…and I really need someplace to store all of it. I'm stuck in a paradox - I need to build tills and storage for all of my tools but I need to restore all of my tools to use to build the storage…but my bench is covered in tools so I can't restore anything because I need to build a till….sigh.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

KenBry
look at Brits (Andy) blogs about restoring a Brace starting here

http://lumberjocks.com/Brit/blog/24957

this how to sharpen the augerbits no.7 in the serie 

http://lumberjocks.com/Brit/blog/25755

and the last out of the serie on eight blogs how to use handbraces 

http://lumberjocks.com/Brit/blog/26129

I don´t remeber witch one that was about all the different bracebits 
but I´m pretty sure its in the serie of blogs

he has a great blogserie about how to restore handsaws too

good luck 

Dennis


----------



## Bertha

^Thank you, Dennis!!!


----------



## Dennisgrosen

your welcome Bertha 

next time you want to point to a blog or project 
just copypaste the url at the top of the site 
I gess you knew that … lol 
its not about cp skills it about how we remember where the things are 
the only reason to why I cuold help is that I favorit the blogs …. LOL

take care
Dennis


----------



## donwilwol

Ken, I have a Dunlop just like that, probably a couple hundred post back.


----------



## KenBry

I tried to take the top cap off so I could lube the top. I took the three screws out but that sucker isn't poping off there. Ideas?

Thanks for those links.


----------



## donwilwol

Ken, its threaded. You will need to unscrew it. (it got me the first time to)


----------



## KenBry

I did a quick read of Andy's blog and saw that these tops can be threaded on. Sure enough it just unscrewed for me. Proof how great this site is.


----------



## Stephenw

The postman always rings once. When I'm expecting tools, I'm at the door before he can ring twice.

I added some vintage hand drills to my collection. The hand drill is a Millers Falls number 2. The cap on the handle unscrews and there are bits inside. One hand brace is unmarked. The ratcheting hand brace is made by H.S.B. and Co. I paid $15 for all three.


----------



## Brit

Nice haul Stephen. You have one of the best hand drills ever made and two useable braces for $15. Can't argue with that.


----------



## superdav721

How did I miss this thread.
Here is my latest set of Irwins


----------



## Brit

Nice set Dave. You've just got to sharpen them now.


----------



## superdav721

Working on it Andy. I started a red oak {time out} chair for my grandson. Per the wishes of the Ms's. It was nice to get the #16 and set it to 10 degrees and off I went.


----------



## Bertha

Dang it! I forgot to gang up and shock some bits this weekend!


----------



## superdav721

They're not going anywhere Al. they will be there when you get to them.


----------



## balidoug

Found her on E-Bay, and probably paid too much but I don't care. I'm in love. I call her Ruby Goldberg and she's got more wheels, knobs, cranks, nuts, and twisty things than Times Square under the Dinkens Administration. Wife won't let me keep her in the bedroom, so she's out in the shop.



















I cannot find a manufacturers mark. Any ideas?


----------



## Bertha

OMG, that thing is so gorgeous that it makes me want to weep! Andy will know who made it. give him about 2 nanoseconds.


----------



## mochoa

That thing is awesome.


----------



## mochoa

I've been giving my braces a spin latley. Drilled in from both side, met almost perfectly in the middle. 
Sorry for the low light.


----------



## Mosquito

balidoug, that looks amazing!

Oh dear… must not spend too much time here… must … resist…


----------



## balidoug

No, Mosquito, give in. Yield to the dark side …


----------



## Brit

*balidoug* - I can't see enough of the breast drill to tell you which model # it is, but it will be a Millers Falls and one of the models that fitted the Millers Falls No.20 bench stand which is what you have found a wonderful example of there. In 1939 it would have cost you $10.39 (without the breast drill). Here is the catalogue image together with the description. If you send me a PM, I'll send you the catalogue in PDF format.


----------



## balidoug

Andy, that's awsome. What's a PM?

Also based on the inflation calculator I was right; I overpaid.


----------



## Brit

PM stands for Personal Message. The easiest way for you to send me a message is to:


Click the 'home' link next to my picture on the left.
Under my picture on my Home page, you will see a link called 'Send a Message'

By the way, the reason for sending me a PM is so that you can let me know an email address for you so that I can send you the PDF of the Millers Falls catalogue.


----------



## balidoug

Ah, thanks. Thought you wanted a head of government and I don't have one handy. #2 I guessed. On its way. BTW, just realized the 1939 price was sans breast drill (who'd want to drill a … nevermind); maybe I did ok afterall.


----------



## Brit

Catalogue sent.


----------



## Bertha

Alright, enough of this babble. HOW DO I GET ONE OF THOSE!!!!!????
.
My life won't be entirely complete until I do. Is it my understanding that it is a freestyling breast drill that can merge with a freestanding drill press apparatus?
.
If so, I need this badly.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That is simply incredibly cool.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

sorry Bertha but you can´t winn them all

but its sure is a nice apperatus

Dennis


----------



## balidoug

The actual story is rather mundane. I have a couple projects on my bucket list that ask for more precise, 90*, drilling than I care to guarantee using just me, my millers falls or my bit and brace. Searched E-bay for "hand drill press" and and Ruby appeared. The sweeping curves, the bumps in all the right places, I was powerless to resist. I clicked "buy now".


----------



## Bertha

Any chance you and Ruby are splitting up any time soon? I don't mean to muscle in but….well…I think she's really pretty. Remember that face to the left if you ever decide to sell her. [email protected] That goes for you too, Smitty, with that antique bench.


----------



## balidoug

Dunno Al, I was thinking of getting a tattoo of her. But if we should ever part, I'll let her know to look you up.

Andy, I found it. Thanks.


----------



## pastahill

I just finished the restoratin of this brace. Sorry that i was to slow with the first picture, but i was in fever. I started faster than i can take pictures. I think it came out pretty nice with the shiny metal and the oak handle.


----------



## Mosquito

I forgot about this thread…

Picked this up a little over a month ago


----------



## pastahill

If anybody is intrested!

":http://www.ebay.de/itm/Alte-Handbohrmaschine-Tischbohmaschine-/181093325267?pt=Industriemaschinen&hash=item2a2a00d9d3


----------



## pastahill

In case that the link does not work here is a picture










4 days to go and just 1 €


----------



## pastahill

Or this one

http://www.ebay.de/itm/antike-Bohrmaschine-Handbohrmaschine-Zahnradkurbel-Kupke-D-R-P-ca-1920-/261117364546?pt=Alte_Berufe&hash=item3ccbcec942


----------



## Dennisgrosen

pastahill 
the last one will looks awesome together with the footoperated drillpresstable 
just sad my shop budget is way under zero :-(

Dennis


----------



## theoldfart

Chris,
Great score! Does the flywheel really help out?
Kevin


----------



## balidoug

Mos and Pastahill, great contraptions!


----------



## Mosquito

I can't say I've ever tried it with out the flywheel, but I would be inclined to say yes. Once you've got it up to speed, it is relatively little effort to keep it there while drilling.


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, 
Thanks, I,m still on the hunt for one. someday…....


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Mailbox had a nice toy in it today!



















A Fray brace, No. 70. Rosewood is a beautiful thing!  Think I'll go drill some holes in a corner.


----------



## AnthonyReed

That is one handsome critter Smitty. Congratulations.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

(Sorry Tony, can't talk now. Drilling holes in the corner…. pictures in a minute…)


----------



## theoldfart

Nice, now go sit in the corner!
kevin


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop




----------



## shampeon

NOS mint Made in USA Irwin brace set top.
Millers Falls 771 & 772 braces below.


----------



## shampeon

Double posted. Sorry.

Nobody puts Bracey in the corner.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Is it difficult to drill while only having the 90° range of motion? Particularly starting?

Very nice Ian.

Edit: 360/4 = 90 not 45.


----------



## Brit

Nice score Smitty!

Shamp - You did good there - Wow!


----------



## Brit

Tony - It isn't difficult, but it sure is slow going. I know a lot of people refer to that type of brace as a corner brace, but when you think about it, there isn't really any advantage over using a normal ratchet brace. The real advantage is in the shorter length which lets you get in between joists or inside a cupboard. They are often also referred to as joist braces for that very reason.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Got it. Thank you Andy.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

How about a corner joist brace? 

Of course Andy is correct… And yes, it is slow going.


----------



## DaddyZ

Nice Ones Guys !!!

Very Pretty….


----------



## Dennisgrosen

if you have missed your rachet to the sochet wrench its usuable for that too …... LOL

Dennis


----------



## Timbo

Hi, My name is Tim and I have a hand drill problem



















Not with any of these but with this one:










It really not a problem, more like I need some help. I can't seem to figure out how to get the main gear/wheel off. Any one know how to do this?


----------



## Brit

Yep! That's a problem alright Tim. Welcome to the club. Swap night is on Thursday. )


----------



## donwilwol

wow Tim. Welcome to the club buddy.


----------



## RGtools

I recently gave away a bunch of mine to friends to try and pare down. I still have 3 braces and 2 hand drills. This place just enables bad behavior.

As far as getting the main wheel off. Can we get a picture of the back, that may help.


----------



## Brit

I'm sure it should have a screwhead in the center of the main gear, but yours almost looks like it is riveted on. Not sure what's going on there. The gear can't come off any other way, can it?


----------



## MrRon

Bertha, they were called "breast drills".


----------



## MrRon

I used to use the brace to drive large wood screws, until the advent of cordless drill/drivers.


----------



## DaddyZ

Tim

Just from the picture, I would guess take the small screw out on the handle, then maybe countertwist the Handle.

Just a wild Guess


----------



## Tugboater78

This is what i have, my grandfathers.









Tell me what i have.. cause im not sure


----------



## Timbo

The main gear looks to be attached (it turns with the gear) to a shaft which inserts into the frame, there is a small screw on the back of the frame.










I have tried to loosen the screw but it tightens up with just a 1/8 turn, the main gear also gets tight so I am reluctant to turn the screw too far and possibly break it.

There is what looks like the same type of screw holding the chuck shaft, it came out easily and releases the chuck. As seen here:










I have been searching for some info on this but so far have come up empty.


----------



## Timbo

@Justin Nice selection of bits and brace, not sure what the bits closest to the brace are called but look special.


----------



## RGtools

*Justin. *
You probably have a sharpening project of sorts. 
You have a drill that will never run out of power in your lifetime.
You have an heirloom.

Hows that for a start?

Take a look at the heads and see which one have damage…if your library has it, check out Aldren A Watson's Hand Tool's Their Ways and Workings, this has some great info on bitbraces and identifing issues.


----------



## RGtools

*Tim*, have you soaked that screw in lubricant yet? WD40 does some wonderful things.


----------



## theoldfart

my guess is the screw has mushroomed in the recess of the gear shaft. Someone really cranked on it hard! You may have to drill it out.


----------



## theoldfart

Justin, Ryan is correct. All of your bits are covered in Aldrens book


----------



## Tugboater78

Oh yeah they need a sharpening, were in a metal box loose, ill check out Brits blogs and learn sum skillz..ill also look up that book when i can as well


----------



## Timbo

@RGtools, every thing is well lubricated, I will soak it some more. edit: soaking at the moment.

@oldfart, hmmm, that could be a possibility and would explain why the main gear also tightens.


----------



## shampeon

Justin: looks like you've got the usual assortment of brace bits, plus on the left an expandable bit, some paddle bits on the top left, and next to those a counter-sink.

A little time with some rust remover and a wire wheel will help. I turned this:








into this:


----------



## theoldfart

shampeon, can you pan a little to the left on the after shot. I see some interesting thingies (technical term) there!


----------



## shampeon

The picture was from a while ago, but there were some brace screwdrivers, some brace twist drills, some bearing scrapers, a cold chisel. Oh, and in the beige wax paper in the top pic, there was some asbestos-infused lead (!!??). I was not super happy that I smelled it before I unwrapped it, after I saw the label inside.


----------



## Timbo

Good news, I was able to remove the screw from the GP 5 1/2B frame.

Lets celebrate with some brace and bit pics!


----------



## theoldfart

Tim,thats good news. Taking a road trip tomorrow to my vintage hardware dealer. Maybe new old shiny things in my future!


----------



## Timbo

Good luck on your old iron hunt Kevin


----------



## Brit

Now that's what I call eye candy Tim. Congrats.


----------



## theoldfart

My turn My turn:









Then there is this,









And finally this,









I think I have a problem


----------



## Timbo

Yep, you have a problem kevin . Nice collection!


----------



## waho6o9

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/tls/3702724153.html

$125.00 in Lebec Ca.

I'm the messenger with no affiliations.


----------



## superdav721

Nice braces and egg beaters guys. I love the wall mounted one.


----------



## carguy460

Had some issues tonight boring through some white oak…a call to Dad for advice yielded a realization that I was trying to bore way too high…by too high I mean my "workbench" is almost 40" tall…hard to bore way up there in the clouds…










Moved the work to the sawhorses and bored right through…




























Yay! I made a hole!


----------



## RGtools

The hole shot is awesome. I used to experience the same issue with my over height bench, once I had a bench around the height of my belt buckle all that went away.


----------



## chrisstef

Im late to the party and im currently on punishment due to the lack of me using my brace lately but i had to comment on Ian's quote from, of all movies, Dirty Dancing. My wife would be proud but yet i feel somewhat ashamed that i knew where the quote came from and that Ian actually used it in a woodworking thread . Whats next bro, "Im the king of the world" ? lol.

Jason - skills are coming along nicely. No blow outs (besides in your underpants) boring that hole. The sound of wood fibers crunching underneath a hand powered drill is dreamy. Not Swayze dreamy but close.


----------



## shampeon

Pshaw. "Dirty Dancing" is the finest movie ever made, a triumph of cinema. Every line should be memorized and savored, every shot analyzed and praised for its perfection. Like all masterpieces, it is inexhaustible.


----------



## chrisstef

Shamp - Do you hold a SAG card? If so, im revoking it lol. Way to stick to your guns though, Stef's proud of you. Carry on.


----------



## theoldfart

Went on a combined vacation and rust hunt and found a few things:









Been looking for these for a while full set original box mint shape:









also found a tenon auger AA Woods & Son B1:









and finally a Stanley #60 dowel guide:


----------



## AnthonyReed

Good Gawd OF!!!! Spectacular!!! :-D


----------



## theoldfart

*Tony*, I could have spent a lot more time in the shop where I got the drills, this is what their plane display looked like:









They had stuff I had only read about


----------



## chrisstef

Kevin - my car is running, bags are packed … Im on my way to that honey hole!


----------



## theoldfart

*Stef*, drive north to Augusta, then turn East. There were three stores, one of which has two buildings and multiple floors..I'll send you the details if you want. BTW did salvage the beams you mentioned this past week?


----------



## chrisstef

Cant say ill be gettin that far north 

Beams? No new salvage as of late but my numbers did go in on tgat old church steeple. I wasnt cheap but 150' up commands a bit of a premium. We shall see.


----------



## theoldfart

I keep looking around for some old ones to make a bench, just can't seem to afford what I find :<


----------



## chrisstef

Youre really not that far from me Kevin. Maybe an hour and change. Id be happy to start settin things aside for you as i came across them. Might take a lil while to gather some up but id be happy to do so. That is as long as free works for ya.


----------



## theoldfart

I think I could swing that! What kind of beer you drink?


----------



## chrisstef

Lemme get the goods before we talk beverage but im an IPA kinda guy. Timbers are kind of hit and miss but i know a bunch of guys that tear down more houses than we do so ill ask around as well. Ill get the word out on the street shortly.


----------



## AnthonyReed

^Cool cat.


----------



## theoldfart

*Stef* at your convenience, whenever. Much appreciated.


----------



## donwilwol

Kevin, the wife and I are thinking of headed to NH and up through main early fall for a similar vacation/rust hunt. I wouldn't mind knowing where that place is if you'd send me that info.

I may have to bring some extra cash on that trip!!


----------



## Brit

I thought that was a photo of your shop Don. )

Nice finds Kevin. Those augers are gorgeous!


----------



## theoldfart

*Don*, I'll PM you the details latter this week I'm thinking that that bike may need a tagalong! One of the shops has two GP miters w/saws under $50…....

*Andy*, I wish it were my shop! though sharpening would become a full time occupation.


----------



## RGtools

Thank goodness stores like that are not near me. My wife would kill me.

*Kevin*, great haul.


----------



## BigRedKnothead

You guys on the east coast have the advantage when it comes to the vintage. That place looks ridonculous.


----------



## theoldfart

*BRK*, it doesn't hurt that most of the stuff was made here. There is a lot of user made and modified tools around as well. At one time pattern making was a huge trade.


----------



## DaddyZ

All I can say is WOW !!!!


----------



## superdav721

Holy drill bit Bat Man!


----------



## theoldfart

*Dave* didn't I hear Buckaroo Banzai say : no matter where…........" in the movie? Also are you the one making holdfasts?


----------



## superdav721

Yes you did. And I am but have not got any to level I want them. I want to be sure they work and will last. They are coming!


----------



## AnthonyReed

^ Awesome news. I can't wait.


----------



## theoldfart

Guess I should build a bench to hold the holdfasts


----------



## superdav721

Sounds like a plan.
The line comes from here. I used to drink HEAVY. Been sober 4 years now.


----------



## theoldfart

*Dave*, thanks for the tune and keep doin' whacherdoin!


----------



## JADobson

I'm late to this party but I'll show my latest acquisitions. I got everything you see in these pictures for $25 from a guy who was selling his late father's tools. He said his dad had them as long as he could remember but he never remembered him using them. Most everything is in really good shape and the bits are even sharp. The brace is stamped with "millers falls co [ ]field mass made in usa"


----------



## JADobson

Also if anyone can tell me anything about this brace I'd be grateful. I think that it is a cheap knock off judging from the amount of plastic on it. There are no marks anywhere on it except for the remnants if a decal. It works well enough though.


----------



## shampeon

"Millers Falls Co Greenfield Mass Made In USA"

There will be a model stamped on the other side of the brace. Lots of info about these braces here:
http://oldtoolheaven.com/brace/brace.htm

Scroll up a few pages to see my MF braces. I'm a proud MFer.


----------



## donwilwol

So I've wanted one of these probably since I started following this thread. I just wasn't willing to pay the +/- $100 price tag that usually came with them. When I seen this with its tag marked $20, I knew it was mine.

Maybe you guys can help me identify it or point me to some resources that may help. I haven't started to clean it up yet, but I don't see a identification mark of any kind.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Congratulations Don. Wish i could help you in the identification.


----------



## theoldfart

Just looked here :
http://oldtoolheaven.com/brace/brace5.htm
Don't think its a MF


----------



## Airframer

I received a Goodall Pratt egg beater today.



















The jaw has one missing spring and one sprung one. It does have 1 good spring in there but I'll be on the hunt for replacements. It does hold a bit fine with some fiddling. Other than that not much is needed on this guy.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Eric, it looks great!


----------



## Brit

*Airframer* - That's a lovely drill you've got adorning your beautiful bench. It can be a problem hunting down replacement springs, but one thing I found out is that often the same springs were used on different models and even drills made by different manufacturers. For example I bought a small hand drill where one of the jaws had a bent spring (funny the seller didn't mention that). It resulted in the jaws meeting like this, which obviously isn't any good if you want to grip 1mm drill bits:










I was a bit pissed off about it because I'd already been bitten once by another small drill I'd bought which had a broken spring. I tried everything to get the last good spring out of the old chuck to see if it would fit the new drill, but I couldn't get the old chuck apart for love nor money. In the end, I managed to carefully pull the spring out with the chuck still assembled using a pair of tweezers. Luckily when I did get it out, I found that the spring was exactly the same diameter, wire gauge and length as the one I needed for the new drill. I managed to get the chuck apart on the new drill, so in it went and now the jaws meet together much better. You can see the doner chuck (from a different make of drill) in the background.










Just thought I'd mention it in case you weren't aware. I'm not saying all hand drills use the same springs, but at least some of them do.


----------



## Airframer

Thanks Brit. I'll try and get some pics with a ruler so maybe one of you guys could help identify the model number. It is a smallish hand drill and the chuck is maybe a 1/4" drive or smaller. Springs will be hard to find so I am thinking a donor drill if I could figure out what type this is.

Oh and as you were… I was a bit miffed about the spring situation too. Nothing mentioned in the description about them. The drill was dirt cheap though so I am hard pressed to complain too much about it.


----------



## Brit

*Eric* - No need for the ruler pics. Your drill is a Goodell-Pratt No. 4 1/2 - circa 1911 and you can take that to the bank. )

All-steel Chuck, with three hardened jaws, holds Round Shank Drills 0 to 5/32 inch in diameter.
Length: 10 1/2" 
Weight: 1.2 lbs


----------



## Airframer

Well, there ya go! Thanks


----------



## Airframer

Would you happen to know if it shares the same chuck as any other manufacturer?


----------



## Brit

Check this out:

http://www.wktools.com/t_GP-HandDrills/sold/s_412-1911-GPhd4.5/412-1911-GPhd4.5.asp

I'll see what I can find out about the chuck being used on other drills.


----------



## Airframer

Looks like it might be manufactured by MF. This is what I found on http://oldtoolheaven.com/hand_drills/drill3.htm

Goodell-Pratt single-speed hand drill

Malleable iron frame; tropical hardwood head; non-adjustable gear guide; three-jaw chuck is adjustable from 0 to 5/32 inch. Enameled black with drive gear painted red; bright parts are nickel plated.

Manufactured by Millers Falls as of 1931.

Illustration from 1938 catalog.

So I might be able to sub a MF chuck which are much more available from what I can tell.


----------



## Brit

The chuck is made by Goodall-Pratt and is a No. 14. They came with either 1/2" or 1/4" shanks

Goodall-Pratt used the same chuck on a number of their other small drills. So if you see any of these, I think the chuck should fit yours, but check that the shank is the same size:

GP Nos. 4, 49, 52, 53


----------



## Brit

I meant to say, if you look behind the knurled portion of the chuck, it should say Goodal-Pratt.


----------



## Airframer

Thanks Brit. I'll keep my eye out.


----------



## Tim457

Ok that's seriously impressive that you could ID that from those pics. Nice job and links. Egg beater drills definitely perform way better than I would have thought they could, and they're kind of fun. Don't suppose I'd want to do thousands of holes, but for average work, it's great.


----------



## mochoa

Eric that looks like the one I have. Its a pretty nice little drill. Great for predrilling screw holes.


----------



## Brit

Mauricio - Your is a Godell-Pratt No.487. I thought it was a No.329 at first, but you can tell by the shape of the ferrule.

They are all here: http://oldtoolheaven.com/related/goodell-pratt-hand-drills.htm


----------



## mochoa

Ah your right, it is different. Thanks for the link!


----------



## theoldfart

Todays rust hunt. MF No 1 roughly 1912 or so:


----------



## theoldfart

This is a big bit! 
http://oldtoolheaven.com/history/historyimg/BigAuger.jpg


----------



## WayneC

They were not kidding when they said big.

Nice find Kevin.


----------



## SamuelP

Does anyone have a good solution for brace bit storage other than a chunk of wood with holes? Trying to clean mine up but I want a good way to store and protect them.


----------



## theoldfart

Sam, one way is a box like the jennings come in:








It has three tiers and holds thirteen bits.
A second alternative is a tool role:


















They role up compactly. I have three of them to hold my chisels and extra brace bits:









My wife made them for me. they are patterned after a knitting needle role!


----------



## SamuelP

Looks like I need a sewing machine or a wife that sews.

A tool roll is an obvious choice. Just looked it up a bit and saw a good idea using old jeans.

Thanks for the lead.


----------



## wormil

Incidentally, I'm missing an Irwin 15 and have a spare Jennings 16 if anyone would like to trade.

I like having them on the wall where I can see them.


----------



## WayneC

Anyone have a cool storage box for braces and bits. I'm thinking about how to store a set of them with 6 to 16 inch sweeps. (e.g. 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, and 16)


----------



## Mosquito

I actually had an idea for that one Wayne…

Basically, the idea was build a set of drawers that would act similar to the Jennings bit box, and put it bottom center of a box, where you would put the braces over. With the chuck and head next to and on either side of the bit drawers, and the handle on the top of it.

Not sure if I described that well or not


----------



## WayneC

I'm not sure I can visualize it MOS.


----------



## Mosquito

Kinda like that, I threw it together quickly in sketchup. Boxes come out the front, and then the brace handles would sit in the half circles, alternating chucks on one side then the other (to save space)


----------



## WayneC

Cool idea. I'm going to have to start some prototyping. I do need to find a couple of large sweep braces to play with. For the end state, I think I am going to put together a set of Millers Falls Hold Alls (729-734).


----------



## Mosquito

Couldn't quickly find a metal brace, so I used the wooden one I could find, but it shows the idea…









Obviously, the drawers would be increasing in size instead of all the same, given the bit sizes, I was just lazy lol


----------



## WayneC

It does. You could also do it with a pair of drawers under the entire assembly. Larger drawers for tenon cutters, reamers, etc.


----------



## theoldfart

Hmmmm another tool chest! Gotta think about that. At the moment I have most of the above in my chest. However if Wayne has too many braces i'd be willing to relieve him of the 16" ;}


----------



## WayneC

Is it possible to have too many of any tool?


----------



## theoldfart

THere's only one I can think of…....


----------



## WayneC

A broken ones…lol


----------



## WayneC

This is one of the nicest production Braces I have seen.

North Brothers Yankee.



















http://www.ebay.com/itm/YANKEE-NORTH-BROTHERS-2101-8-BRACE-DRILL-EARLY-MODEL-Exc-Cond/300968862752?_trksid=p2047675.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555003%26algo%3DPW.CAT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D142%26meid%3D1521889374864006068%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D1076%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D261289208493%26


----------



## racerglen

That looks like it's never been used, or ANDY did it to it !


----------



## WayneC

I got my eBay Suitcase lot in the mail yesterday. It has a very interesting brace in it. It is a 5" sweep Jameson and Co. The photo below shows it with my Millers Falls #34 6" sweep brace.










The entire lot so you can see what I referenced above.


----------



## SamuelP

That was a great deal you got there.


----------



## WayneC

Come to Papa. It is a 12" sweep 2100


----------



## Brit

*Wayne *- A North Bros. 2100 12" sweep is the best brace ever made IMO, but then I'm biased.


----------



## WayneC

That is a really nice set of tools Andy.

It is still a couple of days away from showing up. Really looking forward to it. I may try to get an 8 and 10 eventually. I have heard of 6" sweeps but they are really rare. Not seen a 14" either.


----------



## theoldfart

Nice score Wayne.


----------



## terryR

New to this thread…but most of ya'll know me…I have a stupid newbie question, sorry if I missed the answer in the previous 600 posts somewhere! LOL

Is there a general rule of thumb as to which drill shank fits in different brace chucks? I mean, what fits in a 2-jaw chuck, or a 3-jaw chuck? Is that too broad of a range?

Here's the working end of a MF no.62 from kneeBay, I think:









tapered old style auger bits for him? I gotta learn so I can get away from my cordless Makita!


----------



## dbray45

If the drill fits and holds your good. I have screwdriver shanks and screwed in screws using a brace.


----------



## SCOTSMAN

lovely old tools! wish some of them were mine too LOL Alistair


----------



## Brit

Comment deleted.


----------



## Brit

*Terry *- That's a great question, but not a particularly easy one to answer in just a few words. One of the things that interests me concerning vintage tools is how the tools evolved to meet a need and the evolution of the brace is a case in point. You see, not only was the tool itself evolving as it passed from being made by the local blacksmith to the machinery of the up and coming tool manufacturers, but the cutting bits that braces had to hold were also evolving in their design and the brace had to accomodate those changes. That's why you find so many different chuck designs on braces and so many different jaw shapes. The types of bits each jaw shape holds depends on the trade the brace was aimed at and the stage that the evolution of the bits it had to hold had reached at that moment in time.

Anyhow, enough of my babbling. Here's an extract from a 1934 Stanley tool catalogue followed by a link to a site that has some further information about chucks and the jaws. Clicking on the links at the bottom of the web page will provide further insight.










Loads of great information here: http://www.sydnassloot.com/brace.htm

Hope that helps.


----------



## terryR

Andy, thanks for the in-depth answer. Looks like there's plenty to learn about braces…

David, I can tell I'll use your philosophy on bits as well…if it fits tightly in the tool, screw with it. 

And, for the really embarassing news…I FOUND a Stanley 12" brace in my pile of rusty tools in the shop today. 2-jaws, ratcheting, no breaks. Restoration already in progress! LOL


----------



## DanKrager

Any you dudes bidding on this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331031828835?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
DanK


----------



## WayneC

I've been watching it since it was listed and kicking around the Idea of bidding on it.


----------



## DanKrager

I'm not sure I want this one but I've been intrigued by them since I first saw them. With knowledge of this, the square shank twist drill makes a lot more sense.
The reason this might go cheap is because the small gear has three teeth missing. He carefully photoed to not show that. 
I've got a limit, so go ahead if you're interested. I was just curious and didn't want to step on someone REALLY wanting it.
DanK


----------



## WayneC

I just bought a 12" 2100 Yankee drill. Think I am going to pass on that one. At my drill limit too. 

I did miss the issue with the gear.


----------



## Tim457

"The large picture giveth, the fine print taketh away." - Ebay slogan.


----------



## Brit

*Wayne* - It's an elite club my friend.


----------



## WayneC

This is really cute.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-PUMP-BOW-DRILL-CAST-BRASS-FLYWHEEL-WOODEN-HANDLE-JEWELER-WATCHMAKER-TOOL-/380733940079?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58a582e16f


----------



## Mosquito

I actually quite like that one for some reason…


----------



## WayneC

Did you look at the other photos in the listing? It is pretty cool.


----------



## TerryDowning

That is pretty cool. I love cordless tools.

As to the brace/eggbeater combination (Don't know the proper name sorry) I would need to see a video of it in use. I'm pretty sure I'm missing something and just don't get it.


----------



## WayneC

I believe it can be used in either mode depending on what you are doing. E.g. Either as a brace or as an eggbeater.


----------



## DanKrager

The hand crank wheel is easily removed if being used as a brace. 
DanK


----------



## WayneC

Andy, not sure if you would be interested.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/380732665878?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## Tim457

Hey guys, I'm looking at a timber framing auger. The gears look good in the pictures, but the auger bit itself looks rustier than I would normally buy a bit in that shape. Are the bits something that can be replaced reasonably? It says it is 2". Any good sources on these things?


----------



## DanKrager

TerryD, I'm not sure that "jeweler's" drill qualifies as cordless. See what's wrapped around the spindle? :J)

Tim, just gently wire brush the rust off, or use a deruster, and then oil it. Sharpen if needed, then use it for awhile to polish it up! You'll get buff and if you can incorporate it into a project, you get galoot points!
DanK


----------



## WayneC

Dan, does it have a chuck similar to other drills? If so, I would think the auger could be replaced with another 2" auger of similar design.


----------



## DanKrager

Might have to redirect that question to Tim, WayneC. I would think so too, but why not restore the bit too?
It will be interesting to see what he decides. 
WayneC, I did buy that plane you pointed out the other day. Should be here next week. It's somewhat discolored, but that could also be the picture quality. I'm anxious to see it. 
DanK


----------



## Tim457

Thanks guys. Now that I look again, I do see a bolt for what appears to be a chuck. May take only round shanks, but that's easy enough. If it works when I go take a look I'll probably get it. I plan to restore it and use it, maybe make a timber frame treadle lathe someday. I am just a little concerned that bit is too far gone to be much use, but if I sharpen it, I guess the only problem will be the rough surfaces and that will just slow down or clog the chips a bit. It has some other damage, but seems salvageable.


----------



## WayneC

I was not suggesting to get rid of the bit, more that worst case if it could not be restored, it could be replaced.


----------



## WayneC

All I can say is wow. Andy you are right there should be a club….


----------



## terryR

All I can say is wow…I want one of those North Bros! But, at the cost of 1/2 a truck tire, I must resist. At least until I've restored a few Millers Falls! LOL

Bidding on a MF/Goodall Pratt eggbeater now…anyone know the correct color red to apply to the main gear? Do you guys use spray paint or brush on?


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, what model #?. I could see whats at the flea market around here.


----------



## terryR

Kevin, I'm a newby, but I think it's a no.259…










I see similar models with a BIN price of $85, so I'm not sure how far I'll ride this auction. I WANT the drill, but don't NEED it right now…ya know how it is?


----------



## GMatheson

Here is my Millers Falls Terry. I haven't done any restoration work to it. Just a little oil and it spins like a top.


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, that's a bit older than what I normally see. We usually see 2's and 2A's and the like as well as a lot f breast drills. If any of these interest you let me know, as I will be rust hunting for the next two weekends with fall festivals and all.


----------



## WayneC

Kevin, can I put my order in:

14" North Bros 2100 good chrome and no Bell systems stamp for say $20

lol


----------



## terryR

Yeah, the age of that drill just spoke to me…hope it comes my way, but not gonna hold my breath!

Kevin, if you see a working MF drill for $20, grab it for me, and I will double your investment!!! And, if you happen on that North Bros for $20, I'll wrestle Wayne for it! 

You know, the price of stuff makes me laugh sometimes. My wife just bought a nice pair of shoes for $150, hope they last a couple of years. But a $150 brace could be used weekly and STILL outlive me!


----------



## donwilwol

here are a few I have.










Top left, Dunlop, top right Made in Germany by the Metro Tool Works. Bottom left, a goodall 5 1/2B, bottom right I can't find a name but it seems to be the best built drill. Its heavy.










So I suppose I'm gonna have to stop passing on all these I find now. You guys do know how to spread the infection!!


----------



## TerryDowning

Waiting on these to come in the mail.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-Vintage-Ratcheting-Bit-Brace-from-early-1900s-Millers-Falls-etc-lg-bit-/111178529986?pt=LHDefaultDomain0&hash=item19e2c1bcc2


----------



## WayneC

Looks like a good deal Terry. Going to restore?


----------



## WayneC

I'm a sucker for Yankees now. I purchased this tonight.


----------



## terryR

Awesome, Wayne. In a year, you'll have so many North Bros. tools, I hope you'll be ready to start thinning the herd amongst your LJ buddies! LOL


----------



## theoldfart

I'll second that!


----------



## donwilwol

Harry S. Bartholomew Bit brace


----------



## terryR

Very nice, Don! Wish the price per dozen was still visible on that original ad.


----------



## WayneC

Interesting eBay bits…. Like the leather case too. Might have to copy the case design. Will have to track down an appropriate brace to go with these (assuming they are for an early brace).





































Also, yesterday I found an old Millers 12" Falls 771 Lion Brace. I know Kevin has been chasing the 14" (770) version of this brace. These are 769-774 series braces.


----------



## theoldfart

So your the one? Nice grab, waiting for pics of those bits in action.


----------



## WayneC

Did you bid as well?


----------



## theoldfart

No, I was lurking waiting to see where the price went!


----------



## kiyoshigawa

So, I picked up these two at an antique shop over the weekend. They are my first vintage drills. I got the pair for $30, and they are both in good shape, almost no rust, and all the moving parts move easily and cleanly. Not sure if it was a good deal or not, but I'd seen similar condition items sell for around $20 each on ebay.










The egg-beater is a Stanley. most of the japanning is still on it, almost no rust, and it spins freely with very little effort.










The other is a Millers Falls. Since the chuck is so scratched up, I couldn't read the name or the patent date other than "Jan 10", but it seems to work well and move smoothly. I measure 4.5" from the center of the drill to the center of the handle, so I'm guessing that makes it a 9"? I'm still new to the drill collecting, so please forgive my lack of knowledge.










So anyways, were these a good deal, or should I have haggled the guy lower/walked?


----------



## WayneC

They look like good deals to me. Does the Millers Falls have a number on the metal parts leading to the handle?

If it does you can use this site to find out more information

http://oldtoolheaven.com/brace/brace.htm

Throw is measured center to center, so more likely an 8" brace.


----------



## theoldfart

Tim, the bit brace is an 8". There should be a number stamped on the metal u shaped arms somewhere . That will give you all the info you need to identify it. I'm not up to speed on the Stanley hand drills but don't think you got ripped off .


----------



## Mosquito

Nice grab Wayne!

I think I may keep my eyes open for Millers Falls Holdalls . I've got a 10", and I like it, may just try to get a set


----------



## WayneC

Thanks Mos. You might also look at the Yankees if you can find them in your area. They are pretty nice.


----------



## TerryDowning

Birthday package arrived containing 3 braces and 1 7/8 bit.

2013 B'Day haul (Evidently my wife still loves me). The MF 85 fillister plane arrived last week.









All three braces are usable with functioning chucks and ratchets, none of the handles are broken and all three seem to be serviceable.

1st is a Miller's Falls 732A? (I think and possibly a 1st series) definitely fully boxed ratchet and definitely a Leland holdall chuck. It definitely has the steel clad ball bearing head. It's already in user condition so a restoration is not necessary. It just needs a good cleaning and derusting.









Next is a Stanley 945 10 in. Is there a type study on Stanley Braces anywhere? Also in need of a good rust removal session and cleaning.

















I didn't close up the third one. Made in Japan and the sticker on the handle says Great Neck.

$26 for all three braces delivered. Not bad haul.


----------



## WayneC

They are nice. I'm not aware of a Stanley type study.


----------



## Brit

*Terry* - You can find out alot about Stanley braces and the different types they sold by looking at this Stanley catalogue from Rose Antiques, which is in pdf format. Once it has finished downloading, you can save it to your local drive.


----------



## TerryDowning

Thanks for the link Andy. I'll give it a look.


----------



## WayneC

Check out this auger set on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Russell-Jennings-Auger-Bit-Set-No-100-Complete-in-3-Tier-Box-/231070086481?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35ccd9b551


----------



## theoldfart

Really nice set of originals, my set is Stanley/Jennings and they really leave a clean bore. They are great in hardwoods.


----------



## DanKrager

TOF, don't forget to mention that there are at least two thread pitches on the lead screw, a coarse one for soft woods and a finer one for hardwoods. I didn't know that until I started researching for my own set.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Good point Dan, the 100 series has a fine thread lead screw suitable for hardwoods while the 101 series has a coarser screw which is better for resinous softwoods.


----------



## john2005

I have seen a few of those sets go by. I obsess over every one, but they go for more than I am willing to spend. Maybe I just need to bite the bullet.


----------



## WayneC

These look really sweet. My braces are begging for them.


----------



## WayneC

I got an excuse to play with a couple of my braces today. I needed to build a quick fixture to mount a bench vise on my woodworking bench.


----------



## Brit

*Wayne* - What make and model is that vise? It looks like a useful bit of kit.


----------



## Tugboater78

I need to find an eggbeater, but I will make do with my Yankee pushdrills for now


----------



## chrisstef

I think I picked up my RJ set of bits for around $50. Man, I haven't gotten to play with those guys in a while.


----------



## jordanp

After reading over all these posts I have just one question where do you guys shop!!! lol


----------



## WayneC

Andy, it is an inexpensive Harbor Freight vice. I got a 25% off one item coupon in the mail and needed a better vise than I had for something I was working on. LOL. No comment on the new 8" Yankee?

http://www.harborfreight.com/5-inch-multi-purpose-vise-67415.html

Jordan, eBay if I am impatient.


----------



## mochoa

Wayne, I wanted to buy that vise but the recent reviews indicate that the iron on the new ones is crap, They all say the vise crumbled on them with to much pressure.

Is yours new or older?


----------



## WayneC

Unfortunately it is new. This is actually the second vice. I purchased one yesterday evening got it home and the screw that drives the jaw was bent and the jaws would barely move. I returned it and made sure in the store that the jaws turned true. Then came home and installed it.


----------



## mochoa

Give it a few good cranks to make sure it holds up before the warranty is up.


----------



## Mosquito

I think my set of RJ bits were $80 shipped… Haven't used 'em since getting the Stanley bits


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, Stanley Bits over RJ's?


----------



## WayneC

Photos of the Stanley bits?


----------



## Mosquito

(links to larger picture)

They have the coarse thread snail, which I prefer as I have better luck with them. Maybe my RJ's just aren't sharp enough or something, the threads tend to clog up and then it just spins


----------



## WayneC

Thanks for the photo. Holdall brace?


----------



## Tim457

Did you try the thread polishing trick, Mos? Start a hole, put some polishing compound in and work the threads back and forth a few times.

$50 for that RJ set Stef? That sounds pretty good. I need some better bits.


----------



## WayneC

Also, I thought I would share the list of high quality braces I am tracking. If anyone has some to add to the list please let me know…

North Brothers Yankee braces, including the 2100, 2100A, 2101, and 2101A series. 8", 10", 12", and 14". (Have 8-12" looking for a 14")

Millers Falls - Holdall brace with Leland Universal jaws.
Nos. 729 - 734; 729A - 734A

Millers Falls - Lion brace with Leland Universal jaws.
Nos. 769 - 774; 770A - 773A
Nos. 870 - 873; 870A - 873A
Nos. 1769 - 1773
Nos. 1870 - 1872

Millers Falls - Master Ratchet brace with Leland Universal jaws.
Nos. 830 - 833; 830A - 833A
Nos. 8130 - 8133

Miller Falls - Parsons Deluxe Ratchet brace with Leland Universal jaws (this line is expensive, but very nice)
No. 5010 - 5012; 5010A; 5010C

Peck, Stow, and Wilcox (also P. S. & W and PEXTO) braces with the Sampson chuck and jaws. 8000 Series

Stanley 921, 923 series
Stanley 901
Stanley 810


----------



## Mosquito

NP Wayne, yes that's my holdall, came with the stanley's, and a bunch of other stuff. I like the holdall, and I think I may pursue filling out that as a set

Tim, I haven't tried that trick yet, but I should… I didn't have any at the time that I read it in Brit's blog. I may have to once I have my shop back in action…


----------



## WayneC

I got a 14" holdall thinking it was a 12". Listing was not clear. Have 10" and 12" as well. Was originally heading towards a full set of them. Re-evaluating after trying the Yankees. Chris Schwarz is right on for them I think. (e.g. best brace).

I also have a 12" 800 series Lion.


----------



## john2005

50 is a nice price Stef, since you aren't giving them the love they deserve, I will send you my address


----------



## WayneC

LOL. Everyone so caring and supportive. Willing to take care of neglected quality tools.


----------



## Mosquito

Wayne, if you decide to offload the holdalls, let me know, I may be interested in a 12" ;-)


----------



## chrisstef

John - sneaky fella you are trying to abscond with my precious bits. My only complaint with them is that the box they are in smells like the geriatric ward of a hospital (aka Kevin's underwear). $50 clams was a pretty good price. At the time I ponied up another 20 spot for a MF 10" brace.

Ive got a PSW Samson that I started a rehab on and upon the removal of the chuck I dumped all the ball bearings out … on the ground … outside … in the dark. Made Stef mad. Its in my "future restore" box.


----------



## WayneC

I'm still figuring out the right number of drills… lol

Bummer Stef.


----------



## chrisstef

Tell me about it Wayne. I almost attempted to try and put it back together with half of the bearings required but decided it wasn't the smartest thing to cross my mind. Much like myself its stuffed inside a box, ball-less. One a these days.


----------



## terryR

Stef, that sucks about your balls…

One Goodell Pratt drill headed to Alabama for restoration and safe-keeping…










Anyone know the correct color of red I need to start searching for now?

Time to find a $50 set of bits!


----------



## theoldfart

My underwear smells bad? Spoken by the guy with a hundred mile-an-hour pooper-shooter mounted on his back!
Also figures he'd drop his balls in the dark workin' on his "drill".
Mos, why do you like the stanleys over the Jennings?
Wayne, if yer givin up the 14 …....


----------



## WayneC

I won a few countersinks. They arrived today. Thinking about designs for a drill case or totes that would include braces, bits, counter sinks and other accessories. Another thing for the build list.


----------



## john2005

I saw those and was very intrigued. Nice score Wayne


----------



## theoldfart

I think Wayne is trying to corner the market on obscure arcane bit brace paraphernalia. Need to see those spoon bits Wayne ;0)


----------



## DanKrager

Mos, I had to tweak (sharpen a little bit more) this bit before it would pull itself through the Baltic birch. It looked to be sharp where needed, but at magnification, it was clear that the edge was worn. This is the "back" side. Look how clean the exit is! 
Well, I guess it's not really an exit. When the pilot started to show I pulled the bit and went in from the back. I've not seen such a perfect hole in a long time.


----------



## Mosquito

I might have to have a go at sharpening some of them again. It just seemed like no matter how much I tried, the snail always got full, and then quit working


----------



## WayneC

They are still in the mail Kevin.


----------



## terryR

Hey Wayne, you interested in selling or trading a couple of those sexy countersinks? 29 seems such an odd number to own anyway! LOL If you trade me 3, you'll only need to design a box to hold 26…a nice even number divisible by 4's and 6's!!!


----------



## WayneC

LOL.

I have another big set of bits and stuff coming in the mail. I'm still rationalizing what I am keeping and what I will be letting go.


----------



## theoldfart

^^We'll be watching you :0{


----------



## terryR

I don't blame you, Wayne! LOL

I just scored a 3/4" Mayhew countersink off kneeBay with free shipping…still shopping for drill bits!


----------



## Tim457

I finally got to go look at the beam auger. Given it's condition I should have walked away, but I had my heart set on it a bit, and he made a deal I couldn't refuse with some other stuff because I was planning to restore them. I think I'm going to be able to make it work, but it needs a new bit (lead screw snapped off and is gone) and is missing the mechanism that latches the drilling assembly up at the top when not drilling. I'll post more pictures when I get a chance.

Also got some Stanley Rule & Level levels, a saw with missing nuts but an old plate and nice handle, a barn auger, a saw set and vice, some chisels, and a pair of 6 foot clamps. He basically gave away the saw vice and set to keep them together.


----------



## WayneC

Looks like some nice stuff. Looking forward to seeing the beam auger restored. Been watching Roy Underhill's first season. Looks like stuff strait out of his shop. Roy loves the Barn Augers.


----------



## Tim457

He really does love them. I'm not sure I get it yet, a brace seems better, but I thought I'd give one a shot. I'd give up any tool in my shop for a set of Woodwright's Shop DVD's.


----------



## JustJoe

Brace, spoke pointer, stearns hollow auger with green canvas bag.









The brace is a spofford style Stanley. According to the # 10 underneath the pad, it's a 10". According to the number on the thumbscrew it's an 8". 10" is the correct measurement so this thumbscrew may be a replacement, but it's from the company and not from someone's junk drawer. 









The other side of the thumbscrew shows it was made for the Ordnance Department (US Army).









These were made for a short period - 1933-1934. Just think, these tools could have been used by Soldiers in China to make punji sticks. (They could also have been used by Army Air Corps officers in China to roast marshmellows, history is what you make of it.)


----------



## WayneC

It is very nice. How do you like using the spofford style braces?


----------



## JustJoe

They're just as smooth as the fancier braces, they just don't ratchet.


----------



## WayneC

Thanks. I'm going to have to get one and try it out. Think they would be good with a counter sink.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

this is (hopefully) a pix of my brace storage rack. Inevitably it is too small.

Eric


----------



## WayneC

Wow there is a brace or two in there. 

Looks like you need a second unit.

What is your favorite brace?


----------



## john2005

Holy buckets of braces Batman!


----------



## DanKrager

Eric, my eyes are old and deceive me sometimes, but is that an oversize hammer or are those miniature braces? I keep staring at it to see what I'm missing… 
Either way, wow!
DanK


----------



## john2005

What, you don't have a bright chrome, 3' claw hammer? You should! All the kids are sporting them these days…


----------



## WayneC

Anyone seen one of these Allen & Co 10" Braces before? It was unique enough that I bought it.


----------



## donwilwol

Were are you finding these Wayne. All I keep seeing are Stanleys, dunlops and fultons!


----------



## Brit

I've never seen one of those before Wayne. Interesting ratchet mechanism. Thanks for posting it.


----------



## WayneC

Don, you should be seeing lots of Millers Falls as well. This one I found on eBay.


----------



## theoldfart

Don, lotta MF/GP's around here usually 6,8,10. and eggbeaters/breastdrills. Picked up a half dozen or so this season.


----------



## WayneC

I knocked out a quick brace holder this afternoon. Nothing to be excited about related to the project. Just wanted to share the concept and how I did it in the event someone needed to store braces. This one holds 7 braces. 25" long. 1" holes on 3" centers. I allowed for space for mounting to the rafters. Holes were drilled using a brace. . Channels were quickly cut out by eye on the band saw.


----------



## terryR

That's sweet, Wayne. And how easy to add another since this one's full…LOL

The overhead mount is definately one way to keep from drooling on those North Bros. just sayin'


----------



## Brit

The 2100 is conspicuous by its absence Wayne. Hope you're not drooling over that one.


----------



## WayneC

Yup, the 2100s are getting drooled on. They are in the tool chest. I'm thinking of some form of custom tote/till for the Yankees.


----------



## donwilwol

hmmm, I don't have rafters, but I may try something similar Wayne.


----------



## WayneC

I've seen this done as if you were building a shelf. Add a back and some supports. It could then be wall mounted. Also seen this done in a tool cabinet with the hanger attached to the sides and back of the cabinet.


----------



## donwilwol

I like the overhead idea. I'm pretty much out of wall space. I'm actually trying to regain some back.


----------



## WayneC

You would just need to come up with some form of hanging strategy. Perhaps a box style.

Also, I should point out that these do not slide straight out. They have to be lifted out. The top handle of the brace is sitting in a 1" hole. The channel is narrower so that the braces are secure.


----------



## WayneC

This 8" Yankee 2101 showed up in the mail today. I put in a low ball bid on it and ended up winning. The brace is really dirty and the parts were pretty much frozen on arrival. I oiled all of the normal places and everything is moving nice and smooth now. I was worried that I was going to have to open it up and rebuild it. Perhaps remove the fabled green goo.

Anyone have good suggestions as to the best way to remove heavy grime? I'm thinking of using a solvent. Wanting to avoid abrasives to preserve as much chrome as I can.

This brace is a pre-Stanley merger North Bros Bell system brace. The chrome plate quality on the 2101 version is not as nice as the 2100's nickle plating. I recommend holding out for 2100s. These are the before photos I have taken for the restoration.
































































This is a photo of it with my 8" 2100 non-bell system brace.


----------



## Brit

*Wayne* - Nice find. I would probably just use 3-IN-1 oil and a toothbrush initially to get the dirt and grease off, then another old toothbrush with some metal polish to shine if up.

By the way, a lot of people don't realise that the inner ring on the end of the chuck should turn independently of the knurled chuck. Often it only turns with the chuck because it is frozen, but with a bit of patience and some penetrating oil, it will free up again. Don't know if that is news to you or not.


----------



## WayneC

Thanks Andy. I'll need to pop out here in a bit and get some cheap tooth brushes and give it a try. I had not played with the outer ring. I'm really interested to see how this guy turns out.

I was surfing the web on my phone this morning and found these vintage drill related videos. Check them out. Some good info on the different types of bit braces and a bit of humor.


----------



## WayneC

On more video to recommend. This one is about the Yankee 1545 drill and its operation. I happen to have one of these guys on the bench.


----------



## theoldfart

Got my MF # 30and it has seen some hard miles. I'll have to restore it before I can dog hole with it.


----------



## WayneC

It should come out nice. Quality drill.

Video with some good drilling technique….






I added more brace and drill storage today.


----------



## terryR

Wayne, that's a sweet collection! And thanks for the uTube links…I actually stunbled upon Andy's videos last night and learned a lot on which braces NOT to buy. LOL I only have 2 braces now, but with you guys enabling help, that number should rise soon!

Received my 'new cordless drill' in the post a few days ago…Goodell Pratt, but I can't tell if it's a 5 1/2 or not…pertty sure it is. Probably 1925-1931 just before MF. Tight fitting 3-jaw chuck, no seized parts, I love it. Photos after cleaning.


----------



## WayneC

Looking forward to seeing it Terry.


----------



## terryR

How about this one…










http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bridge-City-Tools-Millennium-Brace-Bit-Set-With-Walnut-Display-Cases-/321219036580?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aca2585a4

Bridge City Tools limited edition brace made from manganese bronze, with bits and display cases!

...or all of you guys the 13 watchers at this very moment? LOL


----------



## WayneC

Looks pretty. I had not seen it.


----------



## john2005

Hey Stef, just got a set of Russell Jennings for 58 bucks, 12" Stanley 945 included. Pics to come when I see 'em.

Terry, that looks nice! You should get it….


----------



## Tugboater78

cleaned rust off grandpas old brace and found this


----------



## racerglen

Oh Tug, that's sweet !


----------



## donwilwol

I love those unexpected finds.


----------



## chrisstef

Good score John, the deals are out there, patience has paid off for ya buddy.

Hel yea Tug, diamond in the rough and ya had no idea. Jackpot.


----------



## GMatheson

Here is a Skinner corner brace I cleaned up. Cleaned metal with a wire wheel, oiled the spinning parts, sanded the wood and gave it a few coats of tinted shellac and wax.


----------



## WayneC

Nice Greg. Lovely old Drill.

The brace cleaned up very nice. Looks like a Vaughan and Bushnell. Company still appears to be in business.

http://www.vaughanmfg.com/


----------



## theoldfart

How can any hand tool purist say no to this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Antique-Unique-Drill-Index-Box-for-Brace-Bits-wood-/161137844488?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2584906108

Genuine vintage :0)


----------



## terryR

Kevin, you'll need more rubber bands to keep the box closed…it's missing the lower latch. LOL


----------



## WayneC

Almost a good as the Roached braces being sold for $50 to be used on the wall of a man cave…

Kevin, I found a 14" holdall for a buck at the Flea Market yesterday. Need some serious cleanup work but it is fully functional.


----------



## theoldfart

Wayne nice score, your going to have the market for 14"s cornered soon!


----------



## WayneC

I'm not sure about that. How did yours work out?


----------



## theoldfart

I, um, er,hmm, well I'll get to it. Someday! I bought it primarily for the bench build so it's not needed yet. Have to complete the granddaughter project first.


----------



## Airframer

Just got these out of the mailbox today. Just needs a bit of cleaning and the box needs quite a bit of help but it is complete. Only real issue is the 1/2" bit is broken at the end. Will have to see if it still works that way or not but not at all bad for the money.




























Blurry pic but here you can see the broken part.


----------



## WayneC

I probably have a spare 1/2" Irwin bit bumping around if you need one.


----------



## Airframer

I might have one too. Just need to root through my pile of misc bits first. If not I may hit you up.


----------



## racerglen

Number 2 son dropped by with a belated birthday gift..









Stanley 921, 1905 to 1950..no idea what vintage this guy is, 12"sweep, patent dates from October 14 1902 to June 5 1906 on the chuck.

















Wish I could focus..
Anyway 1st shot is as it came from the Habitat restore he found it at, others post cleanup.
He also dropped an old electric dentist's drill ,wall mount with all the swing arms and drive belts. Don't think he paid the 300 that EBAY shows them at..does need something for the handpiece, but I already had the low amp foot pedal !


----------



## AnthonyReed

Very nice Glen. Congratulations.


----------



## GMatheson

I picked up this 4 speed breast drill at a local tool show. There are no markings on it and I have had no luck using my google powers to find any information on it either.


----------



## JustJoe

All I can find is a picture and description in a magazine from 1922, and another description from the same year that says it is british.


----------



## JustJoe

And a quick follow-up:

Clarence Blanchard in his mostly worthless book titled "Warman's Tools Field Guide, Values and Identification" (DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON THIS BOOK) describes a breast drill that sold for $75. He says its cast iron and wood with a drive mechanism being a wheel with four rings of holes. It is marked CC (Star) 10.

A frenchman named Camille Contal was awarded a bunch of patents 1905-1930ish. In 1924 he got this one which looks to be your drill.

Now the newspaper announcement from 1922 claimed it was british-, not french. But since no names were given it may have just been a lazy reporter. And the 1922 magazine with picture may have been Camille Contal introducing the drill to the public while the patent was pending. If you want to see that picture you'll have to google "breast drill four concentric circles" without the quotes. The first result is a Popular Science Monthly from 1922 that is scanned into Google Books. Google isn't letting me link to it, I don't know why. Your breast drill is on page 32.


----------



## racerglen

With you Joe on the Blanchard book..nice picks, otherwise..
nuts..


----------



## GMatheson

Impressive work Joe. Thanks for the info


----------



## WayneC

Looks pretty cool Greg. Joe is a wealth of knowledge.


----------



## superdav721

Guys here is a save I did on a T Handle Auger that has been hanging on my shop door for years.


















More reading and a video can be found here
http://chiselandforge.com/tools/handle-auger/
I would just post the video, but we can't.


----------



## donwilwol

Maybe you guys can help me identify the little brace I picked up. The only marks I can find is a number. It starts with what looks like a little "o" with a line under it then a one, then what looks like a 3, but I suppose it could be an eight (maybe even a 9, maybe not a number at all) then 24.


----------



## JustJoe

Could it be a 6" MIllers Falls No. 1324?
Edit - no, it's not.


----------



## donwilwol

I think you've got it Joe.


----------



## JustJoe

I don't think so. I just looked on the MF website and it's not the same style ratchet. MF has the half-boxed ratchet, yours is that one with the two pop-out tabs.


----------



## donwilwol

I thought that was to easy.


----------



## JustJoe

The ratchet mechanism is PS&W, and they had some cheaper braces with that style chuck, but not that type of pad. And the number doesn't match any of their stuff.


----------



## WayneC

The gods of eBay smiled on me this morning. Been looking for one of these for about 4 months. Looking forward to it's arrival. These are photos from the eBay listing.


----------



## theoldfart

Wayne, was watching it. Glad you got it!


----------



## WayneC

Thanks Kevin. All I need now is the whimble brace for a complete set… lol. Well that and the super rare 6". Only seen one whimble for sale in Australia.










http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yankee-Wimble-Brace-stamp-yankee-on-top-pad-/390432302100?pt=AU_ToolsHardwareLocks&hash=item5ae7942414


----------



## ChiefE

I was given my fathers old cabinet makers planes, I think there were seven or 8, one with the wooden screws on the attached fence. They lay for over 20 years in a box, and I never planned on doing any woodworking in my lifetime so I donated them to a preacher who also ran a country store and displayed his collection of planes. He was very happy to receive them and promptly put them on the wall, so I guess they served a purpose, but today I would love to have them back. Oh well at least they are still being displayed but I haven't been to that part of ND now for many years. From what I hear he has sold the country store so I am not sure where his collection now resides.


----------



## donwilwol

Nice Wayne. We'll be looking forward to the family shot!


----------



## Brit

Congrat Wayne. I'm sure there's a Wimble out there somewhere to complete your collection.


----------



## WayneC

The 14" Yankee finally made it. Needs some serious cleanup but the brace functions really well.










Working family.


----------



## terryR

Great family shot, Wayne!
Does that mean it's safe to bid on these guys 14" and smaller now?


----------



## racerglen

Nice Terry, DonW corners the plane market and WayneC's got the braces, Whatcher got ? (thinking about cornering the #2 Robertson screwdriver with wood handle market m'self..)
But I'd realy rather have a 6" sweep brace ;-)


----------



## terryR

^LOL. I got the Sargent Auto-Sets. 
would love a 6 " brace!


----------



## Brit

Congrats Wayne. Are you looking for a 6", 16" and Whimble to complete the family?


----------



## WayneC

Thanks.

6" braces are really nice. The Yankee 6" is really rare. Think they go in the $500 range if you can find one for sale. As far as I know they never made a 16" yankee. I am looking for one of the Yankee Whimbles and a nice 16" brace of another make.

Terry you might find me bidding on a 10" 2100 in the future. I currently have a 2101.


----------



## Airframer

WAYNE! This has your name all over it!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Q-S-BACKUS-BRACE-DRILL-WORKS-AS-EITHER-A-BRACE-OR-A-DRILL-NO-30-VG-COND-/221372033409?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276


----------



## WayneC

Thanks Eric. Slowing down my brace purchases after the Yankees.


----------



## MalcolmLaurel

Here's a Millers Falls No. 94 eggbeater drill, circa 1927, that I've had since I was a kid… it originally belonged to my great grandfather. Dad gave it to me when I was a teenager and he bought a new one, but this old one always worked better and was easier to use… I still use it today.


----------



## wormil

I kinda want an eggbeater drill but I have terrible memories of them from HS shop class, breaking bits, etc.


----------



## WayneC

They are nice if you need control. Perhaps in HS you did not know your own Strength. 

Nice drill Malcolm.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

http://s940.photobucket.com/user/ecoyle1cowtown_eric/media/feb202014014_zps0b0604a3.jpg.html

Some folks find drills boring, others find the subject a bracing one..

I cobbled up this rack to keep some of the more curious ones out of the General tool morasse….Even amongst my oldtool buddies, them what find drills and their intracies are few and far between.

Glad I found this thread…

Eric


----------



## wormil

Wayne, In HS I didn't know my butt from a hole in the ground but I thought I knew it all.

Eric you have a brace for every bit, no need to ever switch!


----------



## WayneC

I did not need this but it appealed to me. Not needed for most of the better quality braces as they will take a round shank bit.


----------



## chrisstef

Killer deal for anyone else local to CT

http://hartford.craigslist.org/tls/4347504530.html


----------



## WayneC

That is a great deal Stef.


----------



## chrisstef

I bought the exact same set up for $60 a while back with a partial sticker and the box smelled of a nursing home.


----------



## WayneC

I have a set. They are very nice.


----------



## Tim457

Whadya say wanna pick those up and ship them out? You're such a swell guy.

Man that is a nice deal for someone that can get there though.


----------



## WayneC

Here is a photo of the bits for posterity.


----------



## john2005

Dang Stef, half tempted to have you buy it and ship it to me. Nicer then my set, well the box is anyway.


----------



## john2005

By the way Eric what's that infill I spy?


----------



## realcowtown_eric

John..
Good eye buddy!

no name, just sitting on the shelf waiting rehab. , a tad of surface rust, stanley blade…
I appreciate my old tools…

here's some of the others…
http://www.oldtoolphotos.com/member.asp?user=89

I wish I had more infills,but they are so freakin expensive, and I'm cautious after a buddy of mine handed me three of em and said. try em. I couldn't make them cut at all, then he fessed up that neither could he. 
Kinda proves the point that all that glitters is not gold.

Any questions? be glad to elaborate.

Eric in Calgary


----------



## WayneC

Nice tools Eric.


----------



## WayneC

I could not resist this Goodall Pratt 2310 Brace. Picked it up on eBay today. Coming from Canada so it is going to take a while to arrive.


----------



## terryR

In some sick sort of way, that's lovely, Wayne! I can see why you couldn't pass…looks like it would drill into a tank!

They just don't build 'em like they used to…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

A highlight from today's rust hunting.





































Little sign of use on any of them. All original, with manual. Incredible.


----------



## racerglen

All right, Smitty scores ! back to the beach now, as you were..


----------



## WayneC

Those bits look wonderful Smitty. I love how well a sharp quality old bit cuts.


----------



## Airframer

Nice grab Smitty! I think I have the same set… just not as nice..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That's it!


----------



## jordanp

You two just share one and send me the other one.


----------



## WayneC

The other one to look for the three layer box of Jennings bits. They are nice too.


----------



## theoldfart

Just got a set of the Jennings from Craftsman on the Lake. Almost unused.


----------



## WayneC

Kevin, I think that deserves a photo or two in this thread.


----------



## WayneC

Also, Have you seen the Goodell Pratt Brace I posted above in person?


----------



## theoldfart

No such luck Wayne! I will post some bit pics this pm.


----------



## summerfi




----------



## WayneC

Bob, Which do you prefer?

Kevin, I am interested to see how the Goodell brace functions compared to the Yankees.


----------



## theoldfart

Wayne, send me your Yankees and I'll let you know. :0)


----------



## WayneC

Lol. Would probably have to send you the Yankees and the Goodell


----------



## theoldfart

Thats ok I'll take them both!


----------



## summerfi

Wayne, to be honest, I don't use either very much. When I have used them, I've used the Irwins, and they work very well. The Jennings are basically an unused set.


----------



## WayneC

I have found them very efficient to use.

I'll think about it Kevin.


----------



## SCOTSMAN

I take it you guys buy these for fun and as collectable items.I cannot see since the invention of the battery operated drills what other purpose they have ohterwise. I do respect you though, if you do collect them as they do look fantastic.I myself collect wooden and brass handplanes to a smaller degree.Hardly worth mentioning as I only have a small number keep up the good work either way.Alistair


----------



## WayneC

Alistair, I like the manual drills for their control. I find braces are very efficient for drilling large holes even over a battery powered drill.


----------



## theoldfart

Alistair (name of my favorite fiddler by the way) I only use hand drills:
Small









Medium









Large









And accessories









I can develop more torque with my braces than with a battery drill.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

And Alistair, the simple fact remains: Everything with a cord gets thrown away sooner or later. My brace or push drill or eggbeater works every time it's tried.

Don't take my PC 18v away, of course…


----------



## theoldfart

Wayne, you asked for it!
Both sets


















Set on the left is a newer vintage and courtesy of Craftsman on the Lake. Set on the right is much older
The older set is a little longer









And the different markings









The newer set is mostly untouched except for three bits, they were not cleaned off after use and I think they drilled in pine.
Both sets are extremely sharp so I have time to get an auger bit file

Edit: one more note, I'm on the hunt for a set of 101's for soft wood. I've never seen one,but I know they are out there. Jon Zimmer sold a set recently for $250+!


----------



## WayneC

Very nice Kevin. I have never seen a set of the 101's either. I have a set of 100s in a beat up box. A couple of them are miss matched. I really like how well they work.


----------



## Slyy

Kevin, nice sets there friend!! I would seriously live to find an auger set in the wild, have yet to but the score would be great!


----------



## realcowtown_eric

scottsman couldn't see why, since the invention of battery operated drills that someone would need one of these.

Here's an exquisite example, Adjusting doors!

sometimes, if the shimming ain't done behind the hinge (on exterior doors ) and if the "security" screws, the ones that go through the jamb into the jack and studs, the wieght of the door causes it to distort the hinge jamb, it sags, and starts to bind.

If the security screws are there, sometimes all they need is a partial turn to make the door swing and latch easy.

Oh, I tried that with a battery and corded drill years ago, but the only rational way to achieve the end is with a brace chucked with a driver bit. No cords, no batteries, more control, and a heck of a lot less fuss.

And ain't nothing for satisfying financially that fixing whole apartments full of stripped out hinge screws done by painters with battery operated drills!

And another example-repairing antique furniture with slotted screws.

A slotted drive bit in a brace lets you feel if the screw is coming out…with a battery operated drill, once it slips out, the bit goes skating across finishes with abandon (after it damages the slot!). Looks like crap, and don't save any time at all, only causes damage!

Over the years I have been accumulating auger bits. There is a whole spectrum of bits out there. Not just Irwins, but apparently 8 variations of same. RJ, coarse thread, fine thread, bates, Gedge, long, short, forstner etc etc.And of course there's the bitstock screwdriver bits. , not just slotted, but up here in GWN (so named for the snow and the polar vortex!) we got the Robertson (square drive) bitstock tools too!!!

Book on braces…

http://www.amazon.com/The-American-Patented-Brace-1829-1924/dp/1879335484/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1394599853&sr=8-3&keywords=patented+braces

The more I find out and learn, the more I discover what I don't know.

Eric in Calgary


----------



## theoldfart

Eric, I'm with you on the brace over a poewer driver. I have bits to fit most types of screws.


----------



## terryR

Yeah, my best friend is a power tool only builder. Made me a display case from Bubinga for some of my knapped points. The last step…screwing on the brass hinges and latch. Time for a hand tool, not a cordless driver.

What did he do? Grab the cordless drill/driver, ruin the screws, and gouge the Bubinga. ouch! oh, the driver was accidentally on high speed. Use a screwdriver, bud. Low tech and you can feel the threads biting wood, or not.


----------



## WayneC

Ouch Terry.

I need to buy the lee valley hex and socket adapters to leave in a couple of braces…

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=32300&cat=1,180,42337&ap=1


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ awesome info, Wayne. Definitely an order in the making!


----------



## WayneC

Makes a brace even more useful. Find a six inch brace and leave a hex adapter in it for driving fasteners…


----------



## Slyy

I agree Smitty, thx for the link Wayne. Never knew they made 'em, gonna get one for myself.


----------



## terryR

So, remind me why I want the North Brothers 2100 brace instead of the 2101…


----------



## theoldfart

Cud Wayne says so!


----------



## WayneC

Actually because Sanford Moss says so…

http://www.sydnassloot.com/brace/northb.htm

North Bros must have done a very fine piece marketing for the Yankee brace at its inception. The two models, 2100 and 2101 are quite similar in outward appearance. But the 2101 is made more inexpensively, with different internal packing, and a lower quality finish. From its inception the 2101 was marketed toward large volume purchasers, such as utility companies. Indeed, most of the 2101 braces that you find today are marked, "Bell System" and were a standard tool for telephone linemen.

I like the rubber better on the 2100s as well. Also, want to make sure you get a North Bros and not a Stanley. Quality declined after Stanley bought them out…

The browner colored handles are the 2100, the blacker is a 2101.


----------



## theoldfart

Wayne, do the different sweeps have a different #s like the MF's?


----------



## WayneC

The sweep size is listed on the brace…


----------



## theoldfart

Wayne thanks. Where's the 16"? :0)


----------



## WayneC

Rare examples of whimble braces and 6" sweep have been found. No examples of 16" have been found to my knowledge.

I would love to have a nice quality 16" sweep brace. Lost the bid on the last one I saw.


----------



## leopard887

Nice collection.


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Wayne! I knew there was an important reason.

Been watching fleaBay for a NB 10", No Stanley. So, the red lettering on brown background is a NB?

Just curous since this one looks black and yellow lettering on my iPad…

http://www.ebay.com/itm/North-Bros-MFG-Yankee-No-2100-Ratchet-Bit-Brace-Old-Craftsman-Flute-5513-/130962452786?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e7df87132


----------



## WayneC

Both are North Bros one is a 2100 (red) and the other is a 2101.

When it gets light I will try to get some photos of the various markings. They can also have an A designation. e.g. 2101A.

Markings would include
North Bros
North Bros a division of Stanley
Stanley


----------



## WayneC

Terry on the one you linked above, the condition does not warrant the price. I would keep an eye on the auctions. Are you specifically looking for a 12"? These are all 10"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/371022910623?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/380858970751?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171262168835?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## WayneC

Here is an 8" Stanley version

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stanley-2101A-8-in-Yankee-Brace-Drill-Bell-System-/161236203464


----------



## terryR

Thanks, Wayne. I also thought the one I posted wasn't worth the asking price. No hurries since it's gonna be a collector/user for me.

Wow, thanks for the links…those didn't appear under the 'north bros' search tag I used! I'm just looking to start my NB collection…8 or 10 or 12" is fine by me! LOL. NOT looking at smaller or Wimbledon until YOU get one first!!!

Edit…have seen a few listed as NB2100, but photos of the chuck clearly say 2101. Did they swap that part out at the factory occasionally?


----------



## WayneC

It is probably more of a miss listing. They make them in 8", 10", 12", and 14" sizes. I had been looking for a 14" for quite a while then there was a group of them up on eBay and I was able to snag one. My 10 is a 2101 and eventually I will swap it out for a 2100 so they are the same.

Some of my braces

8" 2100 and 2101









10" 2101 with a tenon cutter









12" 2100









14" 2100


----------



## 7Footer

Was hoping you guys might be able to help me out here, I went to clean up a couple of drills that were in the old tool chest of my Grandpa's. First one is a Millers Falls No. 1, appears to be circa 1935 because it doesn't have the 'screw-type adjustable equalizer bearing' ... Anyway I took it apart to clean it up and this little screw that holds the crank handle on, and I think that it broke the threads right off, at first I thought it was just a washer or something that had might of disintegrated but when I put it back together I noticed it didn't want to tighten down very well. So, can I re-tap that hole and get just a slightly larger screw to fit in there? Most taps I've used are kind of tapered and the hole is only bout 1/4" deep so I don't really know how to go about it. Pretty bummed when I realized what happened, I had even put some penetrant in there and let it sit for a while before trying to loosen it, but it was really seized in there. I'd like to find a set of bits for it as well though, should I start on ebay or do any of you guys know a better place to look for one? I see it came with a little set of fluted bits, anyone have a set for sale around here, I'll check on eBay as well but thought I'd ask.


----------



## donwilwol

For the tap, look for a bottom tap. You can make one by grinding the tapered part off a regular tap.


----------



## DanKrager

This is not a vintage drill question, so kick me off here if you can direct me to a better place to ask…
Has anyone besides me tried these four facet drill points?

I am quickly becoming a fan…
DanK


----------



## WayneC

Not seen them before Dan. Where did you find them?

I got my Goodell Pratt over the weekend. Here is a photo of it with a Yankee 2101…


----------



## terryR

Lovely pair, Wayne.

Here's one you need…North Brothers 2100 10" brace with decal on the bay of e now…










6 days of bidding left…surely to end up out of my price range! Wanna sell your 'old' 10" and upgrade?


----------



## WayneC

I saw that one (actually have it in my watch list). I saw one in a bit better shape that went for $200 a bit back. I see a bit of plate loss on this one.


----------



## terryR

Oh my…to be honest, I didn't look at the full sized photos of that brace…I was blinded by the partial sticker and just assumed it wasn't in MY price range. But, thanks for pointing out the defects, Wayne!

...patience…is usually rewarded.


----------



## WayneC

It will still probably go for $125


----------



## DanKrager

Wayne, I don't find them…I make them! 
I bought and reviewed on LJ a Tormek DBS-22 made just for that.
DanK


----------



## WayneC

Very cool. Not seen them before.

OCD got me. I snapped up a Buy it now 10" Yankee 2100. eBay photos.


----------



## terryR

Another beauty, Mr. Wayne! 
Sure wish I had seen her first. LOL!


----------



## terryR

Well, OCD got me, too…2101-A, 8" that looks in good shape. Gotta start somewhere…



















...got out-sniped on a minty set of Irwins…that won't happen again! LOL


----------



## WayneC

Nice find Terry. Looks like it is in great shape. Also look for the Jennings box set. They are really nice.


----------



## terryR

^Jennings…check! 

Here's the hand drill of my dreams…Bridge City Tools…never used…on fleaBay now.



















And, the irony really strikes me hard that it cost exactly what my Makita drill/driver cost! Wife didn't blink when I bought the Makita.


----------



## WayneC

Bridge City Tools are things of beauty. You going to buy it?


----------



## terryR

Heck no!

well, maybe…


----------



## WayneC

lol. I think I am through with buying drills for a while. Need to work on some chisels.


----------



## Mosquito

There's a thread for that too 

that Bridge City does look fantastic


----------



## summerfi

Terry, I say 9 goat kids = one Bridge City. Go for it man.


----------



## terryR

Bob, I agree! 

There's also 50 lil chickens coming saturday, and I'm building their pen now…


----------



## summerfi

There's your in. If you're building chicken pens, you definitely need a new drill for that. ;-)


----------



## WayneC

There is a thread for everything.


----------



## Mosquito

Is there a thread for dealing trying to keep up with all the threads?


----------



## WayneC

Perhaps you should create one.


----------



## theoldfart

The Thread of your thread of your dream threads?


----------



## WayneC

The thread of your dreams.


----------



## TerryDowning

I call it "Favorites"/ Forums


----------



## Slyy

Haha thread of the thread of your dream thread, mos has it down I think. 
Terry I didn't realize that BC had made an eggbeater, that thing is awful purty. I'm with Bob: watching the little kids is worth the tool cost, goats=tools, seems fair to me…....

Quick question for the experts (looking at you Wayne), what is the proper way to measure sweep of a brace?


----------



## WayneC

Sweep is twice the throw. Throw is the distance from the center of the brace to the center of the outside handle.

I tried to find a picture. See what I can scare up.


----------



## WayneC

I made a diagram….


----------



## WayneC

This is a cool page on Drills…..

http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2010/12/hand-powered-drilling-tools-and-machines.html


----------



## Slyy

Like the link Wayne, appreciate the info on the sweep. I knew it was center to handle but didn't know inside vs middle vs outside of handle the diagram helps!


----------



## terryR

Cool link, Wayne, Thanks!

Don't laugh at those primitive bow drills, they work fast as lightening! Excellent for fire starting! The last one I built was poorly constructed, but still could make a coal in 20 seconds.

Although, the dude in the website's banner is trying to throw a spear with his bare hands…hope he's aiming for a bird or fish. A simple atl-atl would increase his power by a factor of 10-15…

...love me some shop built weaponry…just sayin'


----------



## 7Footer

I found this Millers Falls Lion no. 772, in my Grandpa's old tool box. I posted this first pic last year in April before my ever-developing hand tool affliction began, and before I knew anything about hand tools. It sure is fun bringing these guys back to life. 








Before:

















After:













































When I took it apart to clean up the chuck and everything I didn't realize that there were a bunch of little tiny ball bearings and they spilled out all over my workbench, luckily they all fell on paper I had laying on the bench and I was able to recover all of them, they are friggin' tiny though.


----------



## WayneC

Great restore. It cleaned up really nice. I really like the Lyon braces. The ball bearings are one of the things that make it nice. Your Grandpa would be happy to see it back in this condition.


----------



## Tim457

Great link Wayne. Imagine being the sap that had to bore holes in tree trunks to make pipes.


----------



## WayneC

Better than drilling rocks.

My Yankee 2100 10" brace arrived today. OCD issue finally solved.










Family shot… North Brothers 2100 8", 10", 12" and 14" Yankee Braces


----------



## TerryDowning

Not yet it's not you still need the whimble and the corner!!


----------



## WayneC

Actually I need the ultra rare 6" Yankee and the rare Yankee Whimble. I've passed on tons of corners as I have thought of that more of a carpentry tool.

I do want an angle attachment, just not found one cheap enough.

The other thing I have is a chain drill. They are cool, but I don't ever imagine I would use it.


----------



## shampeon

Nice restore, 7footer. I'm a big fan of my Lion chuck MFs. Here's my 772 and her big sister 771.


----------



## WayneC

Nice Lion's Shampon. Someday I hope to find a 769. Still not come across anything that big.


----------



## 7Footer

Thanks guys! Man Shamp those are nice! Love that bit case too, I need to go make something like that I have this whole drawer full of bits but they need to be cleaned up and organized.


----------



## Slyy

Yeah 7' that lion came out nice. Shamp and Wayne are big pimpin' with those lovely braces!!


----------



## lateralus819

This is a neat drill.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brace-Drill-cocobolo-brass-Bridge-City-inspired-/271448321579?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f3394ae2b


----------



## terryR

That's a nice one, lat!

BTW, that gorgeous Bridge City brace I posted a few weeks ago sold on eBay for a little more than the starting bid of $350! Must be nice…










...missed out on my first North Bros. brace by $6. bummer. 10"'er sold for $156 last night. I don't mind being outbid by $50, but I sure hate to be the second dude in line!


----------



## lateralus819

I have a brace i inherited from my granpda. Never used it. My father in law has a ton of bits for one though.


----------



## shampeon

Terry, you may well have been outbid by $50. All you really know is that you weren't outbid twice by $50.


----------



## terryR

Yeah, you're right, Ian. The winning snipe could've easily been a $200 bid! I just wasn't THAT motivated.


----------



## WayneC

That was a pretty one. Keep your eyes out for a buy it now one Terry.


----------



## WayneC

Here you go Kevin. A Lion Wimble brace. Drilling out dog holes never got any easier. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MILLERS-FALLS-LION-PATD-WIMBLE-DRILL-BRACE-/261448486832?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdf8b4fb0


----------



## WayneC

As a disclaimer, the item above looks to have a repair on the long arm.


----------



## lateralus819

http://www.ebay.com/itm/great-looking-BRASS-FRAME-ANTIQUE-DRILL-TOOL-sheffield-brown-flather-bit-brace-/201070933296?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ed0c2f530


----------



## WayneC

That looks nice Lat. I have a full set of bits to go with it.


----------



## DaddyZ

Wayne ^

I am not even sure your could even operate that Wimble, the Pivot points are to far off alignment.

I think NOT for 50$


----------



## WayneC

I did not even consider this one for purchase because of the repair. It is actually the first Lion Wimble I have seen on eBay. I did confirm that it is correct from an original design perspective. It is a actually a model No. 7312.

http://oldtoolheaven.com/brace/brace7.htm


----------



## Slyy

Well I picked this one up a while back from a bud. Old Tool Heaven lead me to think it was possibly a no 30-34.
It has the half boxed ratchet and the spring/sleeve barber style jaws (only brace I have with this presumably older style of jaw). It also has a beaded head which is for sure not rosewood as the handle appears to be, so I'm guessing its likely the lignum vitae that is mentioned at old tool heaven.


















I've done a lot of restores but not one quite this old with the nickle plating. I'd love to keep as much plating as possible and would love to have this as a user as well. Any thought on cleaning up the rust and keep the nickle intact. Thinking the usual evaporust and maybe just a light scrub with some OOOO Steel wool and mineral spirits?


----------



## WayneC

Looks like a nice brace. What is the sweep on it. It does look a little different than my #34. There is a ring behind the chuck that yours does not seem to have.





































Have you seen Brit's brace restoration Blog?


----------



## Slyy

Wayne, found this under the rust:









So looks like No 62 from about 1880. This and my EC Atkins are my only 19th century braces. Neat to have them, especially considering it's about 5 times older than me….. The car was hardly invented and the airplane was still waiting on the Wright brothers when this was made, pretty dang cool.

Cleaned up and ready for 150 more years of action:


----------



## AnthonyReed

Too cool Jake. You did a very nice job on it.


----------



## SCOTSMAN

I eat large unpalletable chuncks of steaming humble pie yet again again .Oh yes it seems I was wrong again LOL Actually I must say the old tools look really nice and better than any battery operated crap I oversubscribed myself too .
I wonder why it was not so obvious to me,the first time around .
I can only apologise to my betters and use the age old excuse that decrepid badly wrinkled and intensly forgetful Alistair ,that's me I think, is getting very, very,old and well past his sell by date.
I have a son who is a consultant Psychiatrist as is his wife.They will tell you I am absolutely stark raving potty and in need of a transfer to the twighlight home for sad and degenerate old woodworkers .Wher you sit up to your knees all day in sawdust and peee yourself silly whilst watching repeats of driving miss daisy. Of course they always ad that in the meantime we can sell your house and both by new Bentleys or Lamborghinis. So off I go boys and girls. It was nice while it lasted all 62 years so far ,and despite my rampant scenilty counting. 
I am well off having you guys as friends at least you don't ask for much like my thieving scoundrill children LOL Love you guys as always and I have learned my lesson once again re old tools. LOL Alistair


----------



## racerglen

Alistair.. you all right friend… ?
I'm 65, best before date's a way off (I hope) old tools do need friends too !
just like we old fools !


----------



## SCOTSMAN

Yes very much! despite some old problems,I am alive and kicking. You guys all keep me from getting down.I have been to the united states many many times on holiday wwhen the children were younger and therefore I was too LOL and always loved meeting our very dear brothers and sisters there. really such lovely people and fond memories too.kindest regards to you Glen my friend and God bless too. Alistair


----------



## racerglen

Good to "see" that response Alistair,
you know you're only the second Alistair I've ever come up with.
The other's a deputy fire chief in a local volunteer f/department, and I'll bet you could understand each other on the telephone ;-)


----------



## lateralus819

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-STANLEY-RUSSELL-JENNINGS-AUGER-BITS-IN-OAK-CHEST-COMPLETE-AND-FINE-3-DAY-/281314015207?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item417f9f37e7


----------



## WayneC

The Jennings are really nice.

Jake the 62 is really cool. Very nice find.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

if NOT why Not???

Are whimbles so common in yer neck of the woods that they are cheap? I ain't seen one in my travels north of the border in 29 years. Then I saw one, cost me WELL NORTH of 50 bucks….

Eric
Not always boring…...


----------



## WayneC

Stanley #47 Bit Gauge.


----------



## Mosquito

In response to Smitty's post (and in follow up to my own) on the workbench thread:

Original 1/2" shank drill bit for my post drill









My 1/2" bolt with head cut off, and flat spot filed in









Side by side









The flat spot I filed in the bolt wasn't very big, but in all reality, it doesn't need to be any wider of a flat spot than the end of the screw in the post drill chuck. At least on mine, it's just a round chuck with the screw, there's nothing else that determines where and how large the flat spot has to be









I obviously lose the amount of space that the new chuck takes up, but the table height can be adjusted to be more than enough space for what I do


----------



## bandit571

Rust hunt the last couple of weekends netted a few items









My "Buck-fifty" Samson 8012









Along with a couple $3 10" braces, one is a Millers Falls 732-10









About $7 worth of bits, and









A Stanley #620 eggbeater. Not a bad haul?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Not bad, but not great.

How about a Champion post drill for $10:










And a set of Diamond Edge bits, in original roll for $2.50:










A cast iron Stanley level, with vial covers, along with a Keen Kutter multi-tool for $2.50:










And an oak 8' Keen Kutter hardware display case for $10:



















@Mos - that's a monster bit, wow. Thanks for posting the pics, it will definitely go a long way in getting my post drill where it needs to be as a usable, practical shop tool!


----------



## Tim457

Not great? Are you kidding, $10 for the Champion post drill? The display case is pretty cool too, is it going in your shop or elsewhere?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Tim, I sold it for $75 about 15 minutes after I bought it. The 20 mile haul back home would likely have destroyed it, so I did what I had to do.

The post drill has really caught my attention. I bombed the workbench thread and Mos (rightfully) pulled the discussion back here. My chuck is not aligned, and I'd like to add a modern chuck ala Mos. Found an ad on line showing it sold for $10 new…


----------



## bandit571

Might look a little closer at that Stanley eggbeater, that spot of yellow "paint" on the drive gear? It says "Stanley Tools" Yep, that is a label.

The $1.50 for a PEXTO Samson 8012? Not too bad.

The $3 for the Millers Falls 732-10…..well. it did have #4 bit stuck in it as part of the deal…

The other 10" brace has "JAPAN" stamped on it, BUT it will be a source of spare parts for the Samcon chuck.

The set of bits? Range from that #4 up to a #20, plus a 1" expansion bit. Might have most of the sizes covered, by now.

Almost forgot….there is a POWERKRAFT 3/8" all metal corded drill that even runs! I think it was…$1 or so. No reverse on it, though, just a drill…drill.

Getting all the "patina" aka rust cleaned up might take awhile…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Like I said, not bad, Bandit.


----------



## Mosquito

I would have loved something like that Keen Kutter display for my growing keen kutter plane collection. I would agree, though, chances are that the trip home would do more damage than good lol


----------



## terryR

Mos, Thanks for sharing that mod to your post drill…
Very useful! 
Gotta have one of those guys…ooops…sorry for the anthropomorphization…


----------



## racerglen

Smitty I think that haul calls for a you suck, gently, and bandit as well..


----------



## donwilwol

A few new ones for me.
The a a Lancaster Machine & Knife Works - Lancaster, NY
Then two 6" Millers falls. a #24 and a 34A.










this Lakeside was given to me, just like it is. I think its brand new










Also in the pack was a two speed Lakeside breast drill like this one (I forgot to take a picture). I like the way the speed control works.


----------



## WayneC

Nice finds Don. Lancaster is new by me. I love 6" braces. I have a #34 as well.


----------



## bandit571

Trying to build a tray of sorts. Have at least 11 auger bits and no real place to put them.

Pine 2×4: marked a center line. Started the largest bit, and worked down the line, bored a 2" deep hole with each. Started out with a 10" brace, but changed to the 12"

Scrollsaw to trim a plywood backer board up nice and straight. one edge was crooked.

Laid out some freshly planed Barn wood for a few side pieces.

Lunch

Other things keeping me from the Dungeon shop right now, IF I can get them done, I'll go back to working on a tray.

Now, there are three braces sitting around, and an eggbeater. need a place to hang, set, toss, throw them… [email protected] 12" 2 @ 10" and a Stanley 620.


----------



## WayneC

I hung my braces from the rafters. I took a board and drilled a hole in the center big enough to hold the handle and then cut slots into the hole so the braces could slide in.

I think the holes were on 2" or 2 1/2" centers.


----------



## SCOTSMAN

I respect you all, as you already know and as I said these do look fantastic to me. I just wondered aboout them in todays shop.I have a few of them but never use them nowadays.As far as the name Alistair is concerned it is Scottish for Alexander.In Germany it is Axel also German for Alexander.Have fun.Alistair


----------



## Brit

I wouldn't be without my braces, but most of you already know that. To me they are absolutely still relevant in today's workshops and a joy to use.


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, can I have that 16"?


----------



## Brit

That 16" is a 12" Kevin and no you can't. In a moment of madness, I paid a lot of money for that plus the shipping/customs charges. I don't regret it at all though.


----------



## theoldfart

So I'm looking at 6, 8, 10, and 12", correct?


----------



## WayneC

I'm still smarting from the loss of a 16" Lion Brace on eBay a couple of weeks back.

Andy, that is a lovely set.


----------



## Brit

That's right Kevin. I have some others too, but these four are probably my favourites. The Yankee 2100 12" purely because they are extremely rare this side of the pond and IMO the best brace ever made in terms of functionality. The 10" Stanley No.923 because it belonged to my grandfather and I got to use it as a young boy with his hands on mine helping me turn it. The 8" because I put a lot of love into restoring it to 'like new' condition using nothing but a few simple hand tools. The little 6" no name brace because it is just 'sweet'.

Thanks Wayne.


----------



## terryR

^a calendar worthy shot of tools, there, just sayin'


----------



## bandit571

Mine gets a bit crowded, I'm afraid









and a look at the bit holder









will hinge it or add a pivot to allow the holder to stand up, about like a drill index for auger bits.


----------



## donwilwol

I've spent my spare time the last few days getting all the bits derusted and cleaned up. I need to order a file. I'll keep a set and sell the rest. I don't know if I have 3 complete sets, but its close.


----------



## summerfi

Andy those braces are gorgeous, and the story about your grandfather is priceless. I'm going to have to read your brace blogs.


----------



## WayneC

Everyone should read Andy's Brace Blogs.


----------



## racerglen

Herump…ALL of Andy's blogs.the master speaks..


----------



## Slyy

I picked up this guy last weekend, not much to have to clean up. Grabbed him for $5, ways hard to pass up on just about any $5 vintage tool! First Bell System brace. I think the mechanism needs a bit of work though not too familiar with the design.


----------



## WayneC

It is a great looking Stanley Yankee brace Jake. The pin above the chuck is in the locked position. Pushing it to either side will allow it to ratchet in a given direction. The brace should tick like a clock when you turn it. The mechanism on these may need to have the grease replaced. Instructions on how to do this are here…

http://www.georgesbasement.com/fs2101a.htm


----------



## WayneC

Also, is the brace marked Stanley or North Brothers or North Brothers, a division of Stanley?

If you scroll up you can see that Andy has a similar 12" model.


----------



## Tim457

Nice score Jake. Wayne I thought they didn't say anything other than Bell Systems.


----------



## WayneC

Most of the early ones had North Brothers, then in the 40s North Brothers a division of Stanley, then Stanley, Then bell systems B only.

They will have the Bell Systems B mark if they were made for Bell. If made for general retail they will not have the mark.

There are some other styles of braces (non-North Bros style Yankees) that are marked Bell Systems B. Avoid any with plastic parts that should be metal.


----------



## Tim457

Hey guys a few questions on a breast drill I picked up. It's a Craftsman marked 107.1 and looks like a Millers Falls 12, but I'll measure it when I get it back together to be sure. This has no collector value at all, but spins really nicely now that I've cleaned it up a bit. I'd like to get the rest of the rust off, so I wanted to remove the pinion and drive shaft. The pinion is a bit rusty and so is the top of the shaft it's mounted on. I assume that's why I can't get the pinion off even though I drove out the pin. Would I damage the drill to soak the whole thing in evaporust? I'm a little worried about the two bearing sets. Or should I be more aggressive in trying to persuade the pinion off?


----------



## Slyy

Don't see why submerging it in evapo would harm it. Might find some hidden rust under the paint maybe but is that a bad thing? Would just not be to hard on it, it'd hurt to break the shaft.

Wayne Stanley made:


----------



## Tim457

I'm really having a hard time finding any sources online for dissassembling a breast drill like this. There are a few detailed things on hand drills but this is enough different that I can't tell how the bearings are installed. Jake you're probably right it won't hurt anything, but it may remove the bearing grease and I don't want to dunk it in evaporust until I can figure out how to reassemble and repack them.

In the meantime it spins so nicely that I'm going to settle for treating the rust I can see, maybe with naval jelly and then just put it back together for use. I got the chuck apart so I can polish the inside and remove any burrs so it should work a treat.


----------



## Slyy

The knurled part of each end of the shaft (the parts that hold the bearings) do just simply unscrew from the frame. So you should be able to relatively easily remove and repack/replace them. I recently took apart a No 12 that had most of the bearings sheared/worn into small pieces. Went to the hardware store, got some replacements and just put them in a small plastic cup, sprayed some lithium grease on them and places them back in the bearing housing. Seemed to work pretty well.


----------



## Tim457

Thanks that helps. Once the pinion comes off then I should have access to the knurled piece on that end, and when the shaft comes out the knurled part on the other end will be accessible. Guess I'll see how ambitious I get.


----------



## bandit571

Two new drills came home from the weekend Rust hunt









"GM CO MFG INC L.V. City N.Y. part of a two saw deal plus this drill= $10 Gear was FROZEN in place, not even a hint it could be budged. This is after a trip through the Rehab Center. Torn down, cleaned up, new oil on moving parts. Works like new.

$8 for this 8" brace









It has some markings, just can't quite read them. Cleaned up, chuck oiled up. That end knob is wood, there is a ferrel there, but the knob is mostly wood. Grip handle is a might small, though









And the other side of the eggbeater.









As for the two saws in the first deal









What a deal, what a deal…..good thing I NEEDED that "pruning saw…


----------



## bandit571

Any ideas on those two drills?

Never heard of the one drill, there is some markings on it, just very hard to read at the moment.


----------



## Slyy

So posted this over on the restoration thread but figured I'd do so over her as well. It seems this may be a bit of an oddity. Picked this up for $8 last weekend at the local outdoor flea market. This is marked as a Millers Falls No. 730A. Doing a bit of research it was made in the 1957-1964. Mine seems to have the economy type universal jaws and lacks the adjustable bearing handle further indicating it is the "second series" 730A.
What makes mine interesting is that it has the Lion style chuck. I cannot find anything on OTH to indicate that the 730 ever came with this option. All the same, a nice cool 14 in h brace to put to some hard use!!


----------



## Mosquito

That thing is really clean, and looks great. I've got a pair of Holdall's and have been really happy with them so far. Though mine are older types, with the Leland universal jaws.


----------



## john2005

While we are on the subject, I have a 732 with the Holdall chuck. It was cheap so I grabbed it, even though th jaws are missing. The question for the esteemed panel is: where does one go about getting the jaws for a Holdall chuck? All that I have is the clip that connects the jaws. It is Leland's universal style. Thanks in advance


----------



## WayneC

Looks like a great user Jake.

John, I would look for a donor brace. It should not be too hard or expensive to find one.


----------



## summerfi

Here is my budding collection of bit braces. The left and center ones are new yard sale/auction acquisitions. Left is a Stanley No. 923 10" that required some cleanup. Center is a Millers Falls Holdall No. 733 8" that is just as I found it except for a little wax. The right one I inherited from my grandfather and have had it a long time. It is marked No. 732 10". I presume it is a MIllers Falls as well, but there is no name on it. Perhaps it is some other make, but if someone could confirm the maker that would be great.


----------



## Buckethead

I'm a few posts late, but did I spy a bridge city toolworks combination square among Andy's quiver?

There's a guy locally who is selling quite a few BC TW items, and has come down on his asking price. Still expensive, but well below list. Still to rich for me.


----------



## WayneC

Bob. The 732 is a holdall as well.


----------



## summerfi

Wayne, is it normal for the 732 to not have Millers Falls on it somewhere, or perhaps has the chuck been replaced? The 733 says Holdall next to the No. 733 and Millers Falls on the chuck, but the 732 says neither.


----------



## WayneC

I think the marks varied over time. 732 is a Millers Fall hold all number and the brace looks correct for a millers falls holdall.


----------



## theoldfart

MF manufactured for braces for other retailers, so i'm betting that this may be one of those. Just a guess.


----------



## terryR

Hey Bucket, anyway you can put me in touch with your friend with Bridge City stuff? I'm on the official waiting list for a 12" combo square…been 10 months now!  Seen a few on eBay…over priced since thousands of bidders are interested.

Yeah, it's too rich for my blood, but I only NEED one for the rest of my life! LOL.


----------



## Buckethead

Terry, here is the craigslist post. I could work it locally, if you like. It's from a guy who says these were his dad's, along with other items. Still up. Price reduced from the original post.

http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/tls/4518279004.html


----------



## GMatheson

That's quite the collection Bucket. Wish I had some extra money to part with. I was at an auction a few years ago that had a bunch of Bridge City before I knew I wanted them. I think they all sold for less than $50 each.


----------



## Buckethead

I think that guy has big eyes. One of the pieces pictured has som serious tarnishing on the brass, and he's trying to get 80% of retail. This ad has been on for over a month, so maybe he is ready to come down a bit. Not sure why he isn't trying to go the ebay route. Probably wants cash only.

Even at half price, I would not be interested. Perhaps my tastes just aren't refined to that degree.


----------



## donwilwol

I don't understand the Bridge City pricing. I've made enough tools so I understand the Ron Brese prices. I couldn't afford them but I understand them. Bridge City I don't get.


----------



## theoldfart

marketing cachet'


----------



## terryR

Thanks for the link, Bucket.

Yeah, he's got some pretty high expectations on those IMO. I've been able to grab several BC Tools for about $50 since they needed to be cleaned.

I like his 'old tools' which are brass and wood, the new fangled stuff isn't for me. And a $250 combo square won't be seen near my shop. I could complete my Sargent Auto-Set collection for that. LOL!


----------



## jordanp

Found these…









Mixed in with these


----------



## racerglen

Ah, use a magnet, that should find s'more jewels ! what a cashe !
I'm guessing not too much of an investment ?


----------



## jordanp

$40 but that also includes the drill press vise and a copping saw


----------



## Tim457

Nice haul. You'll either get really good at sharpening bits by hand or find a good machine to do it. 
Looks like you have enough bits to tune them for different purposes even.


----------



## donwilwol

http://www.tgiag.com/North%20Bros%20Yankee%20Tools%20Brochure.pdf


----------



## AnthonyReed

So flipping cool. Thanks Don.


----------



## WayneC

Man I need to find a Parsons…

http://www.jimbodetools.com/MILLERS-FALLS-NO-5010-Parson-s-Deluxe-Brace-Ridiculously-Mint-in-its-Original-Box-p33385.html


----------



## donwilwol

good luck Wayne!!! With the box would be nice!!!


----------



## terryR

Been so long, I've forgotten…

...what's the difference in these auger bits…










and these…










gotta know…
Thanks!


----------



## chrisstef

threading of the lead screw? ^


----------



## handsawgeek

Ask and Thou Shalt Receive…..




























Just for the record, all of these auger bits were de-rusted, cleaned up, and sharpened shortly after these photos were taken.














































And these are just a few…


----------



## Tim457

Terry, from the labels they both appear to be 100's. The second one is obviously older so I don't know what differences that entails exactly besides condition.


----------



## theoldfart

They are both 100's with a double taper screw. The other sought after set is 101 which has a single taper. Just to add to the confusion here is anther label









BTW Jon Zimmer has a set of 101's for $250.00!


----------



## terryR

And, the 101's are for hardwood?

Thanks for the info, guys, just wanna get me facts straight BEFORE investing a c-note! or 2!!!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Finer threads on the lead screw set hardwood types apart. Single or double taper, not so much. It is accepted that the bit crunches faster through softwoods, and the Irwin types do that better. But it's about the lead screw.


----------



## Mosquito

I've got a set of RJ auger bits that I almost never use. I've got a set of Irwin style single taper that I use all the time. Though I've also started just using forstner bits in my brace recently too

And I've definitely had terrible experience with trying to use the RJ bits in softwood, don't do it lol


----------



## terryR

^ wow, thanks for the info, soinds like I should consider a set of Irwins?

honestly, I'm still using modern brad point bits in the old braces…and haven't bored a hole deeper than 3/4" in a while.


----------



## Mosquito

Don't get me wrong, it could very well be me, or my bits that gave me poor results, but in general it seems like for softwoods the Irwins work better, and for hard woods they work almost the same for me.

I found an interesting post by Mike Siemsen about it
http://schoolofwood.com/node/74


----------



## terryR

Thanks for the link, Mos, good reading.

Looks like I'll collect a set of Irwins AND Jennings! LOL!


----------



## upchuck

And if you're in the collecting mood/mode there are also slow, medium, and fast lead screws for different types of drilling in different types of wood. I don't think there is an end to the different bits that can be stuck in the chuck of a brace.


----------



## DanKrager

+1, Upchuck. My RJ set does quite well in hardwoods, even hedge, but not so much in softwoods. The threads are pretty fine, and it's a 100 set. Does anyone know the number of the sets with coarser threads? I still need to get a proper sharpening file.

I have a couple twist drill bits (like for steel) for the brace, and I'm tempted to see how they perform with the four facet grind. I bet it will be worth the effort.

DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm out of my area of expertise (if indeed I have any expertise at all…), but my theory is boxes of Jennings bits are to brace and bit collectors as bedrocks are to bench plane collectors. They command a higher price, but I'm not sure why…

YMMV, others will disagree, yadda yadda yadda


----------



## DanKrager

I'll add my two bits of ignorance too. I've steered away from Irwin pattern bits because their performance reputation suffers more than RJ does. The biggest complaint I've heard of the differences is chip removal of the single flute vs the double flute in deep holes. As Smitty said, YMMV (a new "word" to my vocabulary. I'm hip now….
DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Interesting topic, one that needs to be explored further. I've searched the oldtools archive before and there's really not a bunch of discussion there on the merits / differences of each. Sometimes it seems to fall in the 'distinction without a difference' area, but meh. Does double flute remove hardwood waste more effectively because the finer lead screw removes less? Implying Jennings bits may do equally well in softwoods but go more slowly. I've seen blogs describing no discernible speed advantages to one or the other.

Again, back to preference. "Which-camp-you-in" kind of thing.

Irwins seemed to be marketed towards the carpenter sect, and Jennings to the cabinetmaker.


----------



## upchuck

I am not declaring expertise either. When I want to drill holes I grab all of the different bits of the particular size I want and try them out on a piece of scrap from the project I'm wanting drilled. Then I check each bit for size (not all 5/8ths #10's bits are the same size!) and ease of drilling. I don't have sets or collections. I just have an assortment of used bits that make up most of the sizes. I have a few auger files and a couple of tapered stones for sharpening the bits but I haven't been serious about that learning curve yet.


----------



## Mosquito

According to Mike in the post I linked before, the Russel Jennings bits aren't actually a finer thread, but rather twice as many threads… which I know sounds odd, but it's more coarsely threaded, but with 2 threads that start opposite each other.



> The Jennings lead screw appears to be finer, and appearances can be deceiving. The Jennings bit has a double twist on the lead screw so it is in reality coarser. My take on it would be use what you have and use it sharp. Since Irwins are cheaper and more abundant it would make sense to buy them, but I wouldn't pass on a good set of those fast cutting Jennings bits either.


And based on his results, I think I would agree. Whatever you can find cheaper and keep sharp. Which leads me to believe I need to invest in some auger bit files and some time spent learning to sharpen my bits properly…


----------



## DanKrager

Brit has you covered on auger bit sharpening. The hard part is finding the auger rifflers. The MagBit offered by Amazon has gotten a high percentage of positive reviews; not bad for such a cheap unit. It's not like sharpening saws where there is a LOT of wear on a file, so these cheaper thingys might fill the bill. I'm gonna try one.
DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yes, Siemens does get 1/8" further in test cuts with his Jennings bits over irwins. I don't understand the 'courser, but with double twists…' presentation at all, though.

Wonder if he means 'double flute', as in, all Jennings bits are double flute?

Did Irwin make any that weren't single fluted?

I'll have to look at the Irwin booklet in my sets…


----------



## Mosquito

I think it's that the thread isn't a single thread, but rather 2 threads that start opposite each other? It might be an angle thing… I'll have to do some examining once I get home from errands this afternoon, as now I'm curious


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I've got three or four Jennings pattern bits, the rest are all irwin style. I'll check, too. Wonder if I have examples of 'course, medium and fine' as well?


----------



## Tim457

> Finer threads on the lead screw set hardwood types apart. Single or double taper, not so much. It is accepted that the bit crunches faster through softwoods, and the Irwin types do that better. But it s about the lead screw.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


So how does one tell which are the finer thread bits, besides just looking at the thread of course? Is that what the difference between the 100 and 101, etc is? What would be a good fine thread set for hardwood?

Dan taper saw files also work well for auger bits. In Paul Seller's instructional video on sharpening them that's what he uses, and it does work. Just have to be a little careful in the corners because they aren't safe edges.


----------



## Beard

you have to love these drills!!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Borrowing Siemens' photo, the course vs. fine threads are pretty evident. How you tell unless they're side by side comes with experience, I suppose.










Note that the two Irwins in the photo are double flute varieties, answering one of our earlier questions.


----------



## Beard

You have to love these drill they are built like tanks!


----------



## DanKrager

I did some playing around. I was about to pull the trigger on an auger riffler when I realized that Andy used only the flat face of the riffler to sharpen the bits. So I went to the shop and found a small single cut mill and ground the edge off (carefully) to make a safe edge. Then I proceeded to sharpen some old and odd bits with the following results. NOT scientific nor even careful. Notice the far left bit (A). Someone, NOT ME, tried to create spurs on the TOP side! It was not an accident because both cutting edges match. The performance sucked, as the bit was both dull and not configured right, didn't even make it through the board no matter how hard I pushed. Notice that the threads on this bit appear finer than the others. Only the new one has twin threads.









The Irwin, C, and the RJ, D, were close in drilling speed, both taking only 12 full turns to drill deep enough to find the pilot hole for back drilling. They cut easily in this hedge, and pulled curls evenly from both flutes. These two were properly sharpened and configured. No pushing required. Their thread pitch is almost equal. The others all failed, either entering poorly (no spur) or exiting with explosive force because I had to push so hard. The brand new bit, E, wasn't all that sharp right from the factory. I think it would do OK if touched up, but my file wasn't small enough. I did try to back drill with it, but it failed. Looked sharp, though.








Disclaimer: The shavings to the left were staged from some hand plane work…

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, this what I used to sharpen mine.









My two sets of RJ's









Both are 100's just different time periods









They did not work well on some soft red oak, even after sharpening. I went to an Irwin with a courser lead screw and things went much better. They are great in white oak, cherry, maple and the like.


----------



## Mosquito

Here's a little visual comparison I just did




Images are links to higher resolution images

Also, here's a quick little video comparison. I should have included a picture of the match up I did at the end, but oh well. Might need to select watching it in HD to see the threads, not sure.


----------



## theoldfart

Moss, great video. It does the job explaining the twin taper threads.


----------



## DanKrager

That's good information, Mos. Appreciated.
Well, remember that poor B bit with no spurs? With a little help from my abrasive friends, about 45 mins of work under a magnifier, new spurs were grown. That's supposed to be impossible? I'm here to say, that bit is rescued! See the new exit hole it made, with back drill, the hole that ran into the print. No slippage and almost equal shavings! The first pic is how much difference there is. Ain't real pretty, but it works fine.









This shows how close to equal the cutting edges and spurs are now including new threads at the top of the lead. The back side of the spurs is not perfect, but they will get better in subsequent sharpenings.









And here's the exit side of the almost effortless hole.









DanK


----------



## terryR

Awesome, guys!

Kevin, where did ya get that file? Or what's it called? Auger file?


----------



## Mosquito

A quick search makes it seem like Lie-Nielsen is actually the cheapest (out of Lee-Valley, Tools or Working Wood, and Amazon)
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/files/auger-bit-file/

But yeah, just auger bit file


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, it's like Frankenstein, it's ALIVE. Unbelievable resurrection. I'm sending you both my sets. Great and inspired job.

Auger bit file. Picked it up on fleabay. Andy's (Brit) blog has a real fine video on it's use.


----------



## WayneC

I found this tenon cutter on Friday. Looking forward to putting it back to use. It has a 14" sweep.


----------



## theoldfart

Wayne, looking forward to some action pics. Don't have my hollow auger up and running yet so hope to ock up some tips.


----------



## WayneC

Will do…


----------



## john2005

Somebody tell me this was a good buy at 50. Found it at a pawn shop but couldn't get them lower. Couldnt leave without it either. Rare find for around here. Works smooth, just dirty, a little rust, and somebody painted it blue. Also missing the lower handle. I think I can turn one for it though. Thoughts? Wayne, I'm lookin at you.




























And it does say Millers Falls, 97


----------



## theoldfart

John, somewhere back in this thread someone else has posted a similar breast drill. Good news is it is an earlier MF since it still has the Millers Falls address on it. Later stuff from them has a Greenfield address. I try for the older drills.


----------



## Tim457

John, Oldtool heaven lists a 97 in good+ to fine condition with a price range of $60-$200. Your's isn't in quite that good of shape, but you weren't that far off and more important anyway was if it was worth it to you. I have a craftsman breast drill that works really well and it's nice to have around. I have another millers falls I think that's missing that handle too.

http://oldtoolheaven.com/price/price.htm#breastdrill


----------



## realcowtown_eric

It would have been better at 35$, but at 50 methinks yer at about fair price. Them tool price lists, you gotta watch date of publication, as old tool prices have dropped 30-50% since 2008-9, Worse than the stock market….so old tools ain't an investment strategy, just a source of functional utility.

Eric


----------



## kiyoshigawa

Finally found a good deal on brace bits. #30 shipped on ebay, and only missing the 5/16" bit. 








They need a little rust cleanup and sharpening, but I think they'll outlast me if all goes well.


----------



## kiyoshigawa

And here are the followup photos of me trying out one of them now that I'm home (I picked the sharpest looking one, it was 11/16).
















I expect with a bit of TLC the rest will perform similarly. I'll probably use them to drill their own holes in a holder I intend to make for them.


----------



## theoldfart

Looks good Tim


----------



## realcowtown_eric

Cowtown is looking for a crank handle and parts and pieces of the ratcheting head for a Yankee 1005 drill press.

n E 1 Got?

Eric


----------



## summerfi

I'm looking for help identifying this brace. It is marked No. 444 10 in., but I can find no maker's name on it. The handles are rosewood. Also, what is the correct name for this type of chuck? The end piece closest to the bit is stationary, and the cylindrical piece behind that rotates to move the jaws in and out.


----------



## theoldfart

Pretty sure it's not an MF nor a GP, PEXTO maybe?


----------



## WayneC

Aye PEXTO

http://www.georgesbasement.com/braces/PEXTObracesII/PEXTOPeckChuck16/PextoEllrichPatentbrace-16.htm


----------



## theoldfart

Score one for a SWAG!


----------



## summerfi

It does look more similar to PEXTO than any other brand I've seen, but I haven't found a PEXTO No. 444 yet. This one is a little different from the others with its enclosed ratchet mechanism. I'm thinking the chuck is a Samson, correct?


----------



## WayneC

Fray has a similar style chuck as well. Still think it is a PEXTO. Will do some looking.


----------



## WayneC

This might be a clue

B12 - Vaughn & Bushnell No. 444 10" Bit Brace. A hefty one, the
rosewood pad and handle are in excellent condition, and the metal
retains about 70% or better of its nickel plating. Good+. Price -
$20.00


----------



## theoldfart

Sounds like a possibility.


----------



## summerfi

I'm thinking you nailed it Wayne. This must be an uncommon brace. I can't find a picture of it anywhere, and very little written info.


----------



## bandit571

Came in the mail a few days back









Just a push drill. Has six of the eight bits in the dial-a-bit handle









Bit markings are as #1 through #8. Looks more like a Lightsabre, but is a Goodell-Pratt No. 188A

Action is a might stiff, chuck does work decently. Cap locks in place, have to move the lock down to rotate the cap to get a bit out.

Might put it with the two Stanley 133s as a set?


----------



## summerfi

Well I cleaned the unknown brace up a bit and sure enough, hiding under the grime in an inconspicuous place was the Vaughan & Bushnell logo. Nice detective work guys.


----------



## theoldfart

Looks really sweet Bob, nice score.


----------



## Raz1

My Drill is a bit different.


----------



## Raz1

Hmmm. Having a problem uploading the picture.


----------



## terryR

Nice save, Bob. The rosewood looks great!
I have a couple of V&B planes, seem to be nice quality.


----------



## bandit571

Yard sale find, for $5









Chuck is stamped as a Stanley Rule & Level Co. / New Britain CONN USA

Arm near the the rear pad has two markings: VICTOR and No. 985 8in

Wood parts look like Rosewood.









At one time, it had a nickel plating, mostly gone now. Have been cleaning this expensive tool up. Jaws MIGHT have had a spring in them, gone now.

Ratchet parts work great, though. Handles turn easily, no binding at all.

Might be worth the $5??


----------



## MNclone

Picked up a brace at an estate sale today. I was hoping to find planes there but apparently I was too late. The brace is a stanley 916 with a 6" sweep. The logo on the chuck indicates that is newer than the 1930's but I can't find anything else about this model. It does not have a ratchet. In my quest for info I noticed that some people said that 6" swing was pretty rare. Is this thing actually worth something? If it is, I will probably just sell it to but some old tool that I will actually use. Otherwise I will clean it up and think about using it.


----------



## Brit

MNclone - No, it isn't worth anything. Clean it up and use it.


----------



## Tim457

MNclone, a 6" sweep brace is really handy. You can use it as a cordless nut or screwdriver. The shorter sweep means its easier to spin a little faster than a 10" or larger brace where you have to go farther around per spin.


----------



## bandit571

The Stanley #935 8in all cleaned up









Just a $5 Moving day sale find









The chuck has a "Stanley Rule & Level Co." New Britain CONN USA stamped on it. The arme has a number "No. 935 8in." and a VICTOR on the other side of the same arm. Wood is Rosewwod,


----------



## summerfi

Yankee No. 1555 breast drill. More before and after pics on the Show the Restoration thread at post #4080.


----------



## bandit571

Had a cheap knob on a made injapan brace, with Pot Metal fittings. Metal more or less just crumbled away. Removed the knob. Went to the Antique Store. Found a white knob. Did a bit of grinding









Clue: That is NOT white paint. Smooth enough, it doesn't need to spin. Plan to use this 8" brace to drive screws with, doesn't need to spin all that fast. Chuck is in very good shape


----------



## realcowtown_eric

love them boring tools.

Cordless to boot!

Eric


----------



## wormil

Picked up some junk and among it was an English made Stanley 78 (10" of course, every brace I find is 10") and 3 English bits, a Marples and 2 Ridgway adjustable. This is a before pic. I've cleaned off the rust but haven't sanded down the handles yet.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

chalk line looks funky

Eric


----------



## wormil

It was badly rusted. Guy told me it had been in a basement and basements are rare around here because the water table is so high. Took 3 applications of Naval Jelly and a wire brush. Works fine and still has chalk inside, just rusty on the outside.


----------



## bandit571

After pricing a few tips on FeeBay ( Yikes!) went down to the shop. Had a spare Magnetic tip holder, with a #2 phillips on it. Tried the fit in the DoorKnob Brace…...Fits like it was made for it! Grabbed a 1-5/8" long drywall screw…..drove it in without any trouble to the head of the screw. Then backed the screw right back out. Hmmm, might leave that holder in place in the chuck, and just change out tips as needed.

Now I have yet another "cordless" screwdriver in the shop. 8" sweep will give a lot more torque that those Yankee types I have..


----------



## WayneC

I do the same thing with a 6" sweep brace (using a LV holder). Works great. 

Item C. On this page….

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=32300&cat=1,180,42337&ap=1


----------



## bandit571

Ah, but my little brace and knob were $6.21. The holder was from a set of bits….

I can use about that entire set of tips in the holder. But, now I can also drive a bolt, using a socket wrench. had a 1/2" speeder bar. But now, I can just add the right socket adapter and drive them home. Have 1/4" and 3/8" drive style ones.

A new brace cost HOW MUCH!!! WOW! I don't have that much wrapped up in 6 of them.


----------



## Tim457

I did the same thing you did Bandit. I assumed I'd need that LV adapter until I figured I had nothing to lose and just tried the standard bit holder in the brace chuck directly. It works really well and holds very solidly.

What socket adapter do you have that fits in the brace chuck?


----------



## Slyy

Man, would love to find a 6" brace in the wild, love all my 10's and bigger but a smaller one would be useful!

Posted about this in the restoration thread but here is a Miller Falls 120B that belonged to my paternal grandfather. Purchased this a few years after getting back to the states following his stint in a B17.


----------



## bandit571

Socket adapters were a set. Meant for a "regular drill. Have used the 1/2" drive one to drive big anchor bolts. Chucked it into a 1/2'' drill, and cranked them down.

Have a single 12", two or three 10"s and a couple 8"s. Plus two eggbeaters.


----------



## WayneC

I would never recommend buying a new brace. Quality is not good and there are a ton of good old ones out there and as Bandit says many can be had for a song.

Nice breast drill Slyy


----------



## Tim457

Jake that's in great shape and it's awesome to have the family history like that.

I have a 6" brace I got with some tool chests but it was repaired badly. It's functional, but where the end caps that hold on the sweep handle should be it's soldered instead. Here's a picture of the area. The handle is already split and held together with rings. Should I just work on filing the solder to clean it up or do you guys have any ideas for a better repair?










I also have a 14" brace I found in the wild, but it's nothing special either. Works well though.


----------



## bandit571

Ok, Brace-drivers. I guess you could use that term for these









The all metal "Williams" is set up as a 1/2" speeder bar. The rebuilt white knob one has a 1/2" adapter in it.









That socket on the adapter is a six point APEX. The one on the Williams is a Duro Chrome 3/4"

Been trying to clean up a Germany 8" sweep, non-ratcheting brace, a H.S. 102?









The knob onit is a bit different, though.









Other than that brass ferrel, it is all wood. Not much to the chuck, either









But it can hold onto the larger taps I have









BTW: That Williams has a diamond W on both an arm, and on the knob. I'd have to go back and look at all the numbers stamped on that arm. Not even sure where I got this thing at….


----------



## realcowtown_eric

slyy…buddy have faith that the tool god will shine on you when you are ready for the 6" brace.

Years ago, I had a multitude of braces plebian run of the mill stuf in various stages of non-functionalityf,but usablel cordless drills kinda. Never paid much attention to details, but then as I got educated….. you see a pile of braces, and you start to look at the details, size, number of claw in the chuick..2/3/4/ unusual configuration, maker, etc, and then you slide down the slippery sloe a little further.Once that starts, there's a warning…abandon all hope!

Even simple single twist Irwin bitstock auger bits seem to exist in about 8 different flavours.
Then there's RJ bits, different types of feeds. gedge pattern, bates, etc)

Keep the faith, there is a tool-god and his light will shine on you eventually, even though yer tool buddies might find it boring!

Eric


----------



## DanKrager

Did some rust hunting in a local store today that has newly opened up. Nice place. I'm too lazy to go back to the shop and get a picture of it, but I found an Atkins timber saw gauge in nice condition. Of course, there is no spider. The patent date is '97, 1897 I presume. I'm not seeing descriptions of how this particular model is used, so I'll post pictures with that request later.

But I also ran across this in the same store:








Like a dummy I didn't look to see how much they wanted for it. I was struck by the two speed feature and double bit jammy. 
DanK


----------



## DanKrager

I think I'm on the trail of why my Pexto X-72 brace has only a square hole instead of a two jaw chuck for tapered bit shanks we all know and love. It was built to handle the very large bits of post drills and framing drills that used square shanks. Blacksmiths apparently made twist drills with square shanks, though I've never seen one in person. Like this.
DanK


----------



## Slyy

Dan that one is a heck of a machine, seems like a papa version of the No. 14 breast drill OldToolHeaven has. Wonder what the damage was?


----------



## DanKrager

The store is right downtown here, so I can find out if you''re interested… I paid $3 for the Atkins saw gauge, so it might be reasonable.
DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Working on my snow blower, I had the privilege of using a tool I had no idea existed until my friend dug it out from under a pile of stuff in his shop. We were modifying a 1950's something three point hitch to accommodate the newer quick hitches and that involved moving the pins which take 1 1/8" hole. This was 7/16 angle iron. The electric drill started cutting an egg shaped hole, and we were both short on muscle to hold the drill to the work long enough. Enter the "old portable drill press". 








Yes, it was still work, but it got the job done in relatively short order and with an accurate hole! Ibuprofen is my friend.
DanK
edit: The ratcheted crank just happen to align with the camera's line of sight, but there is a 10" crank there.


----------



## theoldfart

sweet set up Dan. And ibuprofen is my skiing buddy!


----------



## Airframer

People often forget that the words "New" and "Improved" do not always mean the same thing and I think that pic proves it. Very cool!


----------



## realcowtown_eric

Picked up this puppy this week. Took a little research in the USPTO database to find it…Stearns hollow auger pat 101817, not in the pearson tome, but he did come close. June 12, 1877

__
https://flic.kr/p/16486481841

No google images, no ebay llistings etc. I'm thinkin it's a tad scarce

Eric


----------



## bandit571

Instead of changing bits..









Change brace and bit. Bigger the bit, bigger the sweep on the brace. #20 bit= 12" sweep, right?


----------



## Tim457

That #20 bit looks to be in pretty cherry shape too. I'd love to find some of those larger ones.

Cool find Eric.


----------



## Slyy

Like that lineup Bandit, in nearly getting a big enough collection that might could do the same!


----------



## woodcox

This might bring in some coin…
http://m.ebay.com/itm/181672519895?nav=SEARCH
I'm rapidly acquiring my round and round collection. My two braces and eggbeater have been breeding like rabbits so lock up your cats. I'll post a litter pic in a week or so when the stragglers decide to show up. In the meantime I'll head back to page five and catch up. Enabling read so far fellas!

Scrapping grease from gear teeth is growing on me.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Okay, need to post something on this Vintage Drills thread that happened in the shop yesterday.

Needed a 16 hole in a piece of 5/4 pecan, so I reached for the Irwins as well as the 8" Oak Leaf brace. It's not a fancy brace -no ratchet- but should be fine, right? I thought so. But then things came to an abrupt stop.










Couldn't strong arm a complete revolution from this point, just couldn't. It was high up, leverage wasn't on my side, but seriously… So to the drawer I went, and found a 10" MF brace with ratchet action.










Better! Then I grabbed the bit file I picked up from TFWW a couple months ago and did my first touch up of a bit. Much, Much Better!

Love it when a plan comes together. I wanted holes, and got nice, clean holes. Sweet.

That is all.


----------



## Brit

Glad you are now at one with your brace Smitty. )


----------



## Brit

Actually Smitty, you would have another revelation if you put that size auger in a 12" brace. Much easier. It is true what the ladies tell us, size does matter.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Alas, no 12" in the till Andy. Those don't come around very often that I've noticed.


----------



## bandit571

I must have been lucky, then









12" Samson chucked PEXTO with bit….


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty and Andy, I can attest to the size matters ethic. I have a 14" I used doing the leg mortices on the bench project. Once I sharpened up the bit, it plowed right through the 4" red oak.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ain't much that escapes your eye, Bandit. 'Tis true. Not saying you are afflicted, but braces is a bug that hasn't bitten me at all. Just want one that works. I have four of them, but the others are really ratty and came from my Dad's junk tool drawer. Maybe I'll start paying more attention, maybe not. In the meantime, the MF 10" just may be the go-to and that's all.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

14" ??

That's crazy talk! Wow.


----------



## theoldfart

Nope, just a little guy looking for leverage. Still hunting the elusive 16".

Edit: Come to think of it I think Wayne has a 14" Yankee


----------



## Mosquito

I've got an 8", 10", and 12" Millers Falls Holdall (731, 732, 733) braces that I use. I want to get the other sizes (6", 14", 16"), but that's about it. I also haven't really felt compelled to pick up more than 1 set like I have planes. I do like having different sizes available, though. I use the 12" and 8" more than the 10". I'd like a 6" before the 14 and 16 I think, because I find myself using the 8" for counter sink, and driving screws a lot, and feel like the 6" would work just as well or better (don't want TOO much torque on the screws lol)


----------



## Brit

Now you're talking my language Mos.


----------



## theoldfart

Yea Mos, i keep a slotted bit in an 8" all the time. Amazing how much torque those things can crank out and way better control than a battery powered unit.


----------



## Slyy

8, 10, 12 and 14 range of sizes in my stable. I would seriously love to find a 6" or two for countsinks etc. and of course a mystical 16" would be awesome. I seriously feel I lucked out on the 14", paid a whopping $8 at an antique store where one of the vendors usually has very reasonable prices.
Just a shot, not all of mine but example of size range:









Interestingly I have 3 8"s that measure 4" center to center and one that measures 4.5" center to center so strictly speaking it's actually a 9".


----------



## Slyy

And since the drill thread is hopping currently. LJ theoldfart, aka "aged flatus", aka TOF, aka Kevin was very kind recently hearing of my woes attempting to locally procure an eggbeater drill or two. A week or so ago I received this awesome LJ care package:









An unmarked small eggbeater and a Millers Falls 2A, probably 60's vintage.
A bit of cleanup and paint and they turned out very nice and I'm happy to have some hand powered drill is the shop now!


















Appreciate Kev's incredibly kind gesture and hope to put these fellas to some use very soon.


----------



## theoldfart

Well done Jake, now send 'em back

You do suck on that 14" for 8 clams!


----------



## Slyy

Kev, I'd have to say that 14"er was one of my luckier finds for sure. Got a little tool chub for that guy for sure, 'specially when I saw the price sticker.

Boy I'll tell ya too Kevin, I'd almost do refurbs for costs of paint and shipping. I actually find it very cathartic and satisfying, no doubt!


----------



## Brit

I think he's hooked Kev.

Great job on the refurbs Jake.


----------



## johnstoneb

I have a #5 Miller Falls eggbeater. Works great but haven't been able to get the cap off the handle. Does anybody have any ideas short of a large mallet?


----------



## theoldfart

Jake, may take you up on that refurb thing!


----------



## Tim457

I agree a 6" brace is about the best tool out there for driving screws unless you're talking hundreds of them. Excellent control, lots of torque and good speed. A 14" brace is pretty helpful too, but not quite as much extra leverage as I would have thought.

And no kidding, I think I'll take Jake up on that offer too. I have several tool chests full of tools there isn't that much wrong with but who needs 5 eggbeaters a few of which are low quality but still functional?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Bruce, I have one like that too. I think sometimes the owners got frustrated over the end caps coming loose easily and just said 'skrough it' and glue'd 'em up.

I'd try warming it up maybe, like when trying to reactivate hide glue, to see if that didn't break it loose. But I've not tried anything.


----------



## johnstoneb

Thanks Smitty. I hadn't thought of that. I've only seen one of those that the lid would unscrew and it actually had a couple of the original bits. Until I saw that one I always thought they used twist drill bits. I've seen a few with the lid missing.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

And Jake, a hearty "Second" to the high praise for Aged Flatus. A wonderful LJ, for sure.


----------



## donwilwol

Nice work Jake. Ive got a counter sink bit that stays in an egg beater full time.


----------



## JayT

Added to my brace collection a couple days ago. Found this little guy at an antique store for $9. All I know is that it's a 6 inch non-ratcheting. Haven't found any markings, maybe once it's cleaned up.










My very limited collection

The 6 incher, 10 inch Pexto No110, and a Yankee 2100 12 inch. Now I just need to get a set of bits.


----------



## woodcox

Those look real good Jake, nice work! Greasy little tools, but they are fun to play with. I'm finding you need al least three of a kind to get one really good one together 
Nice OF!
I have a Fulton with cap glued as well. I assumed it was an annoyance for someone or the threads had stripped at some point. 
Nice drills JayT.


----------



## WayneC

Missed the bid on a 16" Sampson a while back… 

I actually have an old English brace with a 5" sweep. 2 1/2" throw.


----------



## Tim457

> Nice work Jake. Ive got a counter sink bit that stays in an egg beater full time.
> - Don W


Don that's a really good idea. Anyone know how to sharpen counter sink bits? I have a few but all of them are dull.

Wayne is that 5" sweep one of the older style wooden braces, I forget what they're called. Ouch on the 16" Sampson.


----------



## WayneC

Tim, it is actually a non-ratcheting metal brace.

On the countersink, it would depend on style.


----------



## bandit571

In addition to the 6 braces I have, there is a couple eggbeaters, too









A GMCC and a Stanley #602. The cap on the Stanley works just fine. 









That yellow smudge on the Stanley happens to be a Stanley lable….


----------



## Slyy

Well was inspired, here's my current brace family picture.


----------



## Mosquito

Here's mine









Except I screwed up… I have 3 of 6 in the set, but if I ever do finish the set, I'll have to make a new hanger, as it only has space for 5 lol


----------



## Slyy

I applaud your fortitude to stick to three Chris, I'm afraid of what my tool collection is gonna look like 20 years from now….

JayT I like the Yankee 12 incher. Got two 10's a bell system and a north brothers. Nice little braces.


----------



## Mosquito

Who says I'm sticking to 3? I just haven't found the other 3 yet lol

My affliction is handplanes, at least those are the ones that I keep buying more despite having a working set already…


----------



## WayneC

Here is my overflow storage. My primary braces are in my tool chest. (8, 10, 12, and 14 North Brothers 2100 Yankees)










Here are some interesting items to look for in your rust hunts…










Square Driver to attach sockets, Hex Driver for drivers, and a couple of depth stops.


----------



## theoldfart

Wayne, 47 & 49 if I'm not mistaken?


----------



## WayneC

You are correct. The other two attachments are from Lee-Valley.

The braces are all Millers Falls, 6", 2 12" (Lion and HoldAll) and a 14" HoldAll.


----------



## Slyy

Awesome Wayne. A depth stop is on my short list of things to pick up for sure.


----------



## woodcox

Wayne. Do I spy a chain post chuck attachment on your English 5" sweep brace?lol
Would love a pic of said brace. I have been waiting three weeks for a Stanley no. 73-5 to (hopefully) show up in my mail box. No tracking! I'm in agony over here;( It took me over two months of searching to find someone willing to post one over the pond. I had to talk him into it if I won the bid. I even asked him to pad the cost some to make it worth his trouble. When I eventually do see it, I'd be out in total way less than the domestic 6" I've seen.


----------



## WayneC

The chain drill is in a much bigger brace.

I'll get some photos


----------



## WayneC

LOL. I guess not that much bigger. It was in a 6" Miller's Falls #34. So here is the Chain Drill my 2 #34s and the English 5".


----------



## woodcox

Nice! I like it's chuck. 
Edit: today was the due date for my 5"sweeps arrival but it didn't show. Postman did bring something else…









A GP no.49 bundled with a very tiny unmarked beater. That gear is only 2-1/4" dia. I think it will become my minion's first real hand tool.


----------



## bandit571

Used my Millers falls awhile back









With a BIG Holdall chuck, and a 3/4" bit. 
Had some bit holders, too









And, I think there are a couple "special" braces









The one in the back is dedicated as a screwdriver, and there is a Worth "brace" like object









Mainly for 1/2 drive sockets…


----------



## bandit571

Hmm, thought I posted a few drill-like objects…PUSH!


----------



## WayneC

I can see the photos….


----------



## wormil

Picked this up a few years ago, a hardware store display for Irwin bits. This is before I cleaned it up, never did get the red paint drip off. Unfortunately the set was missing #6 & #15.


----------



## Tim457

I've got almost that same one, but yours is in much better shape. Mine had only a few of the bits.


----------



## woodcox

Thanks for the juju Wayne!


----------



## Tim457

Woah, nice! Didn't know such a thing existed.


----------



## Slyy

Jealous of all 6 inches there Dubbya!!!


----------



## woodcox

Don't fret Jake, it's only 5"..... "It's just us, I ain't gonna tell nobody."

I gather it is possibly a Chapman. When Stanley bought them they kept some of Chapman's model numbers to ease their foot in the door, familiarity I suppose. There is another 5" model UK Stanley no. 40-5. Different finishes or timelines I think. Really hard to gather info on UK Stanley stuff.


----------



## Slyy

Oh wow, 5" huh! Great catch there


----------



## Brit

Nice brace!


----------



## WayneC

Very nice. I have wanted one of those and the Stanley X3 6" brace.

http://www.jimbodetools.com/STANLEY-NO-X3-Brace-Marked-FRAY-Rare-Six-Inch-p33802.html


----------



## Brent12

What is this? LoL, I know it's not a cabinet scraper like the tag says, I am just curious what kind of brace it is? I have never seen one like this before. Picked it up at a annual flea market swap meet today for 35$.


----------



## JayT

Brent, that's a corner brace. Since you can only get so close to a corner with a standard brace, because of the swing, those braces were designed to get in corners and other areas that you can't maneuver a regular brace.

Nice snag for $35.


----------



## Brent12

Thanks, after some more research with very crude Google search topics " weird angle brace and bit" etc. I found out it was a corner brace. It was made by Bergman Tool Co., which I have never heard of, but apparently they became Blue Bird around 1927. The brace functions great, looks like it was coated in poly or something similar. I wonder how much it would be worth.


----------



## donwilwol

$35 for the corner brace is nice. They are typically marked about twice that around here. I'm not sure if they sell for that or not. I paid about the same as you did for the one I found.


----------



## Tim457

Hey guys I'm looking for advice on sharpening this type of auger bit. Woodcox I think you had good luck with one like this recently. I don't know what it's called but the spur is basically reversed making a corner that needs to be sharpened like a corner chisel. I did my best on it, including using a magnifying glass, and the edges feel quite sharp but the results were poor to say the least. This bit cut the hole on the left, and this is actually the better side. On the other it split out a sizable piece going away from the other hole, just didn't show on camera. My suspicion is this basically comes down to sharpening almost perfectly into that corner, but I'm about out of ideas on how to do that.


----------



## WayneC

Tim, are you using an auger file to sharpen the bit?

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/Page.aspx?p=70693&cat=1,320,43072,43089,70693


----------



## Tim457

I hadn't tried that though I do have one. I was using a safe edge file though. As I get the corner more and more perfect it cuts a little better, but far from good. Made me wonder if there was some other technique to shaping the edge to improve the cut.

The 1/16" larger hole on the right was cut with this new Irwin. The edges are so bad you can see and feel the serrations. I guess that goes to show the superior design that it can cut that well in that condition, compared to the edges on the vintage ship auger that are nearly perfect.









The Irwin has such poor finishing that I planned to take it back before I even tried it out and I ordered a Woodowl Ultra Smooth bit. The downside of those is the spurs appear to be much shorter and won't be able to be sharpened as many times. Apparently very high quality though and $24 from Lowes compared to the $17 I payed for the much lower quality Irwin.


----------



## theoldfart

Tim, check out Brit's blogs. He has an excellent one on sharpening brace bits.


----------



## DaddyZ

Tim

I think you a missing the spur on the Bit. Your bad hole looks to be done without a cutting Edge spur, where on the perfect hole, the irwin has the spur


----------



## bandit571

Have two eggbeater drills, both work ok. Just can't seem to get either to hold a drill bit tight enough to prevent the bit from spinning in the chucks. One of them is even a Stanley #620

Also, would a "modern" hex side bit holder work in these? Maybe drive a few screws with them? I do have a 8" brace set up that way…

Trying to drill a few holes is a chore, having to spin the bit back and forth, even in pine









Even on end grain.


----------



## Tim457

bandit how are you tightening the bit up? Took me a while to figure out that you hold the drill with the chuck upright, hold the chuck in one hand so it won't spin and then rotate the handle to spin the jaws tighter. Not only can you get more force on the jaws than you need that way, but it's really fast to resize for different size bits. If you already were doing that, then I'm out.

Thanks DaddyZ, the vintage auger just has it's "spur" reversed so it comes after the cutter lip like a lot of old barn augers used to. I watched a video of Old Sneelock cleaning up a barn auger and he touched up a rusty auger and had it cutting better holes than my vintage one within a few minutes, so I'm sure it's something relatively simple I'm missing. But also the augers with the spurs like the Irwin can definitely cut a cleaner hole.

Also thanks TOF, I can do a pretty good job on the regular Irwin and Jennings style with the spurs. I've even figured out you can restore the snail threads with a saw file if you're careful. But it's rarely worth it.


----------



## DanKrager

I'm looking for a 14" sweep (or bigger) ratcheting bit brace any brand, just about any workable condition. Will trade if you tell me what you want. I don't keep trading stock normally.

Also want a brace chuck in working order.

And the elusive 6" or 8" ratcheting brace also.

PM me if you have anything available. I'm rust hunting on LJ's! 
Thank you.
DanK


----------



## bandit571

Picked up a couple bits today..

still cleaning a LARGE expansion bit. Logo on the shaft looks like it is in a box. Seems to go from 1" to almost 2", IF the scale on it is correct..

The other one is a 3/4" auger with a "My T Co." logo.

Both were just a dollar apiece..

As for a ratcheting 8" brace? How about a Stanley Victor No. 935?









Stanley Rule & Level Co. stamped on the chuck. Rosewood handles…...


----------



## ShaneComeBack

This guy just popped up on a local estate sale auction. It's a Pilkinton but can't really make anything else out. No bidders yet so still at $0.00, but 5 days to go. Maybe I'll get lucky and pick it up for a steal. (Doubt it haha)


----------



## Mosquito

Dan, I'll have to look to see what I've got still. I think I've sold all my extra braces, but will check.

I know I've got a mixed set of bits in a canvas roll though.


----------



## Tim457

Dan I don't have an extra 6" or 14", but I have about 10 other extra braces, I might be able to spare you a chuck, let me know if you still need one.


----------



## JayT

Mos, if you are willing to part with some of the extra bits, let me know. I still need a set and haven't had time to work through what's on ebay, yet.


----------



## Mosquito

Sure thing, will send a PM Jay


----------



## WayneC

Thats a handsome brace Shane, good luck.


----------



## WayneC

Thank you Kevin.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Wayne. I actually haven't yet used any of my Russel Jennings No. 100's yet…


----------



## WayneC

I really like the 100s and have been looking for the 101's for the longest time. Kevin alerted me that their was a set of 101s up on eBay and I won them earlier tonight.


----------



## summerfi

What is the difference between the 100s and the 101s? I just looked at mine and they are 100s.


----------



## WayneC

Coarse vs fine threads. Most are 100s. The 101s are uncommon. From google: There are two basic styles that were made with the only difference being the screw tip. The 100 series has a double thread fine pitch which works well for hard seasoned woods. It does not work so well with very hard or gummy woods. The 101 series has a coarse thread that works well with the very hard or gummy woods.


----------



## summerfi

Ahhh! Thanks!


----------



## Mosquito

Reason I haven't used my RJ set much yet, is that I've got a set of Irwin style bits that I use quite frequently instead. I like the coarse bits more, as a lot of what I do is pine, poplar, and oak


----------



## theoldfart

Wayne, glad you got them. First time I've seen them on the 'bay.


----------



## Woodbum

?


----------



## DanKrager

!

Does that answer your question, Woodbum?

DanK


----------



## WayneC

> ?
> 
> - Woodbum


There are two models of Jennings Bits (100 and 101). The 100s are commonly seen and the 101's are uncommon. The 100 series has a double thread fine pitch which works well for hard seasoned woods. It does not work so well with very hard or gummy woods. The 101 series has a coarse thread that works well with the very hard or gummy woods. Sets of 101s rarely come up for sale. Kevin saw a set that was not identified on eBay and let me know about them. I was the successful bidder and I was thanking him publicly because he is a great guy (independent of him doing this for me).


----------



## Mosquito

It's interesting, though, that a lot of people say the 100's are 'fine' but they're actually a more coarse thread than the 101's, there's just two of them.


----------



## woodcox

Thanks for that mos, I didn't notice the start of the other thread when I was filing on my set.


----------



## WayneC

Thanks MOS. I was going to post some photos when I got time.


----------



## WayneC

They made it Kevin.










And the 100s for reference


----------



## theoldfart

All right, glad you got them. How about a pictorial comparison close up on the size 11 or so?


----------



## Tim457

Very nice. I'm not sure you can see the difference of the double threads but I second the request for an attempt to try.


----------



## WayneC

Working currently but will get shots later. You can clearly see the difference. Also, I have macro lenses so I should be able to get closeups.


----------



## theoldfart

Work? Where the hell are your priorities man? Let's get with it.


----------



## WayneC

101 on top and 100 on the bottom. Both Size 11.


----------



## ToddJB

Thoughts? Never seen this sort of set up before. Old, new, worth a dang?

http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5024112324.html


----------



## theoldfart

Wayne, thanks


----------



## WayneC

> Thoughts? Never seen this sort of set up before. Old, new, worth a dang?
> 
> http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5024112324.html
> 
> - ToddJB


I've seen them before. They seem kind of gimmicky to me… I would guess 60s-70s.


----------



## DanKrager

I had a very cheap version of that gadgetry, Todd. Mine wasn't worth having, but it was a gift from mom so I kept (most) of it, now in a junk drawer somewhere. Looks interesting and would be a good addition to your display case of old tools in the living room.

DanK


----------



## ToddJB

And that's what I wanted to know. Thanks gang.


----------



## WayneC

West Germany dates it between about 1946 and 1990.


----------



## Mosquito

Those threads are even further apart than the Irwin patent bits… same pitch as the double leads on the 100s, just single lead?


----------



## WayneC

> Those threads are even further apart than the Irwin patent bits… same pitch as the double leads on the 100s, just single lead?
> 
> - Mosquito


Yes, just a single lead.


----------



## fumehappy

i'll just leave these here…


----------



## theoldfart

Looks like a pretty good size ships bore. Can'.t quite make out the brand on the breast drill


----------



## fumehappy

Here's a close up of the gorgeous original sticker. 










Old fart, do you have any idea what kind of work a ships bore like that would typically do? I'm not up to date on such things. 
Thanks!


----------



## theoldfart

I think just what the name implies. Drilling holes for wooden pegs to tie the planking to the ribs, decking and so on. Telephone workers used them for drilling into line poles, electricians ues them as well.


----------



## bandit571

Have a little more modern one in the shop. 16" long by 3/8" od. One of the Sparkies left it laying on the jobsite, and never came back for it.


----------



## WayneC

Probably had no idea where he left it.

I'm a huge Goodell Pratt fan.


----------



## bandit571

Has a hex tip, for a modern drill chuck…









Needed two pictures to get it all….


----------



## wormil

Been wanting one of these Craftsman braces with the octagonal (or hexagonal or whatever, I forgot to count them) handle, well I finally bought one.










I dig that GP breast drill, they made everything beefy.


----------



## WayneC

Very nice Rick.


----------



## Tim457

That's pretty cool, greet shape too. What chuck is that, it seems distinctive and I thought it was MF, but I didn't see it on Oldtoolheaven.


----------



## WayneC

Looks like Millers Falls construction. Especially the knob.


----------



## upchuck

All-
I have a 8" Pexto brace (and I swear that I've seen a photo of an identical one here on LJ's recently but I'm unable to locate the photo). My brace works as a non-ratcheting drill because the collar is frozen to switch it from clockwise to anti-clockwise. I've soaked it in penetrating oil for a couple of days without positive result.
What's the next step? There is not a bunch of rust. Maybe something is broken or jammed inside?
Thanks,
chuck


----------



## Tim457

Gentle heat and some love taps maybe? When pulling stuff apart like that I find the grease can get awfully hard or there can be a bit of sand or grit in just the wrong spot. You can try simple green or another degreaser but then you'd need to regrease the bearings.


----------



## Slyy

Got my Greenlee/Craftsman's cleaned up. Not sure what to do with the original roll, looks like plastic/fake leather. Pretty cracked and stiff, may not be a way to rescue it.








Don't look in need of more than a few file swipes to sharpen them up too.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

One of the most well-worn braces I've come across, of the finest quality. No. 33 Millers Falls bit brace, with 8" sweep. It is signed: "Millers Falls Co. Millers Falls, Mass., Patd. Feb'y 18, 1890" on the chuck , and "No. 33" on the frame. It is a 8 inch sweep. The chuck and jaws are all original. This puppy was used… A lot…










All that's evident of the name etch, magnified.










Love it, my new 'daily driver.' Flea mkt find.


----------



## racerglen

Nice one Smitty, he he "daily driver" like it !


----------



## DanKrager

Nice, Smitty. That's a cute little stand for brace photography!

DanK


----------



## DLK

Good find Smitty.


----------



## WayneC

Good old Brace Smitty. I have a couple of 34s. 6" sweep and like them a lot.


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, ever use that pointer?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thanks, all.

Yes, used the pointer last night (I don't stage everything, you see…). My oldest son described a game called "Beersbee," like Frisbee. It's two poles about 4' high with beer cans on top, 25' apart. Two teams of two alternate throwing a frisbee at the poles to knock off the can / hit the poles for points. Catch everything? No point.

I used some aluminum pipe for poles, and created stakes at the lathe with the right ID to have the poles sit right over them. Stakes are pointed, and are driven into the ground; pointer was used on the ends of each stake, one end to a complete point, the other to create a slight chamfer to resist splitting.

Sorry you asked?


----------



## theoldfart

VERRY SORRY, harumph.

Ah what the heck, good alternative use buddy, quite creative actually.


----------



## bandit571

Looks like I have a few things to clean up, again









Spent $2 on these, and got a hammer head and a hatchet head that need handles.

So, I then looked at a few other yard sales and found a brace for the bits…









Most of the nickle plate is flaked off the brace. A Stanley No.923 10in. -Y brace. That pile of items cost a whopping $2.50! The skinny chisel (1/8" sash) is a Buck Brothers.

So, any tips on how to clean them rusty bits?


----------



## woodcox

Nice bandit. Do I spy a three inch Goodell Pratt pocket screwdriver? I have a small collection of them going


----------



## bandit571

Kind of hard to read all the markings on it. Let you know what I find out. The metal band on the handle is Brass. The shaft has knurling? Looks like it, anyway.

Bits are taking a vinegar bath at the moment.

Note: The Stanley brace still has it's springs! Other than the flaky plating, almost like new! A little 3in1 oil on the moving parts, and it is good to go.


----------



## bandit571

Got the bits cleaned up









About half the cutting spurs need to be redone. That old Plumber wore them out. largest is a 16, and a 15. The "normal" looking drill bit is a 1/4" and seems almost sharp. The c clamps came from the black plastic tool box, and need a cleaning, as well.

Brace has been cleaned, the wood has a coat & wipe of BLO, and the brace is now hanging up. It may get stowed away in the toy chest, later, IF I can find a bit of room for it…









Not too bad a weekend, after all…


----------



## ToddJB

Bandit, what process did you end up using to clean up the bits?


----------



## racerglen

2x Todd and wanna tackle my 2" auger next ? ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Well, that vinegar soak got most of the rust off, but a wire wheel in the drill press finished the clean up. Not all that sold on the vinegar routine, though. Just can't afford the evaporust either.

May have to go out and buy a new wheel, as the old one is getting a bit worn out. Sheds like a sheep dog in July…...


----------



## TheFridge

My favorite hand drills have a dewalt stamp. And an 18v battery.


----------



## CFrye

How do you re-do the spurs? These need some help(life support)









Is there a way to revamp the tip of the one at 2 O'clock?


----------



## WayneC

> How do you re-do the spurs? These need some help(life support)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a way to revamp the tip of the one at 2 O clock?
> 
> - CFrye


They are sharpened with an auger file. Brit has a great video on sharpening. I'll find the link.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=70693&cat=1,43072,43089&ap=1

For the broken screw, I would look for a replacement bit. What sizes is it?


----------



## WayneC

Here is the link Candy on how to sharpen an auger bit. The whole series is worth reading/viewing (videos)

http://lumberjocks.com/Brit/blog/25755


----------



## Tim457

I've redone a lot of auger bits, and I've found the two things that make them not worth fixing up are pitting on the outside of the spurs and bad threads on the snail (lead screw). Another is poorly sharpened tops of the cutting edges. I've figured out how to fix up all three, but the time involved is not worth it, better to keep hunting to find some that are in better shape.

Andy's got sharpening the spurs and cutting lips covered, but fixing the threads requires either a saw file or a thread repair file. You have to make sure to keep the angles on each thread even and consistent. Like I said it can be done, but it's rarely worth it. For pitting on the outside of the spurs you can't just sand or lap it off because then the leading part of the bit won't cut as wide a diameter as the rest of the bit and it will get stuck in the hole. So the only way to do it right is to basically hold the whole bit flat over some abrasive and rotate it at the same time. I did it with one bit, it worked, and probably won't do it ever again. Also people will commonly say you can't file the top of the cutting edges, but what you really can't do is change the angle so much that you no longer have a good clearance angle. Often you'll find them where people have damaged them by filing the tops and it can be fixed if you file it in such a way that you restore the clearance angle, but it's a lot of work, and again not worth it when you can find other bits in better condition.

That probably didn't make much sense without some pictures, I can try taking some if there's any interest.


----------



## CFrye

Thanks, Wayne!


----------



## CFrye

I think I understood, Tim, but I may not. Pictures almost always help! Can anything be made from an auger bit that's too far gone?


----------



## WayneC

> Can anything be made from an auger bit that s too far gone?
> 
> - CFrye


I've not seen anything cool. Perhaps some form of wall art arrangement.


----------



## bandit571

Picked up one a while back….someone had reground the end for use in a drill press….Works…SLOW speed required, though.


----------



## Tim457

I wish I could think of something to do with auger bits that aren't useable anymore too, but nothing I can think of so far either.


----------



## CFrye

Sorry, Wayne, I just now saw your question regarding the size of the small bit. At work now, I'll check in the morning (if I can read it).


----------



## DaddyZ

Why not Grind the Base down & grind the spurs & Threads Off

Just a thought but it Might make a pretty cool Awl / Marking knife

Spiral as a cool handle to hold onto.


----------



## DanKrager

I wonder if there would be a possibility of making them "barefoots". Barefoot are special twist auger bits that have no spur and with a pilot hole start, drill end grain very well without following the grain.
DanK


----------



## donwilwol

I need some help with this one. I don't see any marks, but its the coolest breast drill I've run across.

The breast part of the handle can pivot.
There is two hooks below the breast plate that move up and down, so I think there may have been some sort of rod that went through two eyes in each side that could be adjusted up and down.
And the shaft can be adjusted to change the speed.


----------



## theoldfart

Don, think maybe the hooks may allow it to be used as a chain drill. Most assuredly the most interesting drill I've seen.


----------



## DanKrager

Hey DonW, I've never seen such a breast drill! Great find! I'd wager that there weren't more than several hundred made.

Here's a guess. I'm thinking that the hooks under the breast plate and the eyelets below were a mechanism to help provide more drilling pressure, as in a rope around the object being drilled and back up to the hooks. If that hook is spring loaded, that's a give-a-way. It would only work if the drill is straight, but would be more useful when the drill is folded. What you think?

DanK


----------



## summerfi

I think she's a McClellan. Super find!










Here's the link.
http://www.antiqbuyer.com/All_Archives/TOOLS_ARCHIVE/archiv-Drill2.htm


----------



## theoldfart

Yep, chain drill


----------



## donwilwol

Nice, here is a patent http://www.datamp.org/patents/displayPatent.php?number=661418&typeCode=0


----------



## donwilwol

Any body have a rough idea of value? Not that I'd sell it!


----------



## summerfi

One was listed on ebay recently and didn't sell for the listed price of $150. Other than that I have no idea.


----------



## donwilwol

> One was listed on ebay recently and didn t sell for the listed price of $150. Other than that I have no idea.
> 
> - summerfi


Thanks Bob. I guess I better show up for work Monday morning then!


----------



## Slyy

That is a heck of a drill find Don! Super awesome device. Excellent research there too Bob thx for the info.


----------



## Tim457

That is really cool. Is that top knob to increase the tension on the chain as you drill through?
Definitely nice sleuthing there Bob.


----------



## bandit571

A "No-Name" 8" brace came home with me the other day..









Jaws have teeth









Collar on the ratchet is bare-bones, teeth stick out a bit, edge of the housing has a champfer, two pins act as stops for the selector.









The collars at the handles are just flat "washers" 









Even at the top handle









Wood appears to be either a walnut, or rosewood. It does have a lot of black stripes in it. 
Brace was part of a swap meet's haul..









Want to call a Stanley, but it isn't quite a match. Millers falls, Merrit, or someone else? Was too much rust on it before the clean up, haven't found any names….
Any ideas out there?


----------



## bandit571

Looking around on the Millers falls Home site….No.32 fits the brace to a "T".


----------



## theoldfart

I picked these up on vacation last week. They are by E Pierce and I think date back to 1880's or so. They are not uniform in length, they vary between 16 1/4" and 17" so I'm pretty sure they're hand forged. The #4 is missing so I picked up a NOS Irwin, way shorter! Iv'e included a Jennings Quick Boring bit for comparison.



























All of the lead screws are in great shape. So I guess its drill baby drill!


----------



## Tim457

Those are really cool, I can't believe they are in such good shape. Are you sure a 4 was ever included? They may have skipped it because of the difficulty making one in that length.

Btw, whatya drilling with your 17" bits?


----------



## Mosquito

> Btw, whatya drilling with your 17" bits?
> 
> - Tim


Drilling for oil, probably


----------



## donwilwol

A buck Rogers brace. One dollar! I wasn't sure what it was at the time but $1?


----------



## theoldfart

^ and he SCORES ! Looks good Don.


----------



## bandit571

Made use of that no-name brace. Had some stubborn screws. Chucked a screwdriver bit and walked the screws right out









Then, after the ironworks were cleaned up, and the screws were ready to go back in (wire wheel to clean the screws up) used the same set-up to install the screws back into the plane. Worked well enough that the rest was done the same way.









Lots of torque from that little brace.


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, I've sheared of the heads large screws with my brace. Made the mistake of using a 14" ! Way too much torque. Now I stick with a 6" for screws.


----------



## racerglen

Kevin that's another thing on my list, a 6" brace, only ever seen one and it'd been sold the day before I saw it but hadn't been picked up yet. Of course a dollar 6" Buck Rogers would be the pinacle (if they were made ;-) nice score for Don !


----------



## john2005

Back from the farm in NE, and I did get to do a little rusting.

I didn't do as well as Kevin or Don however. I did find a Millers Falls 772 with a Lion chuck and a mostly complete set of Russell Jennings 100s. #7 has minor lead screw damage, #9 has the square taper cut off, #11 is missing and there is some minor damage to the lead screw on # 13 as well. And no box. Dug them out of a barn. BUT there was #s 17,18,20,22,24,28,30,&32. #30&32 have the square taper cut off as well, but considering what I paid, I'm ok with that. I will likely sell #4-16 as I already have a set in good condition so if anybody wants any 100s let me know.


----------



## ToddJB

PM coming, John.


----------



## theoldfart

John, great score on the oversized RJ's. Never saw that many in one place, usually just onesies.


----------



## upchuck

> I did find a Millers Falls 772 with a Lion chuck…
> 
> - john2005


Good find on all of the RJ bits especially the big to huge sizes. Like TOF I see #16+ size bits one at a time and in a variety of styles.
But I'm writing to see if the Lion chuck is one of the ones with ball-bearings inside the shell/chuck. And if anyone can direct me to the replacement and repair of that type of chuck. chuck likes chucks.
chuck


----------



## john2005

Seens how its my first and I haven't much time playing with it yet, I don't know If I can answer your question Chuck. Ha @ chuck likes chucks


----------



## WayneC

WK fine tools has instructions for a Sampson brace…

http://www.wkfinetools.com/hUS-borTools/boring-index.asp


----------



## upchuck

Thank you WayneC-
I have two braces that appear similar to the Samson Brace in the article. Neither has ball-bearings in the chuck.
Now that I know what to look for I'd like to get these two up and spinning.
Thanks again,
chuck


----------



## WayneC

You're welcome. Looking forward to seeing them in action.


----------



## Tim457

Awesome to find those large bits John. It's possible the 30 and 32 didn't have the shank cut but instead have a subtle flat on the end of the 1/2" shank to be put into a beam drilling machine. I just picked up a 28 like that. Let me know if the the 30 and 32 have the flats and if you're interested in letting go of them.


----------



## john2005

> Awesome to find those large bits John. It s possible the 30 and 32 didn t have the shank cut but instead have a subtle flat on the end of the 1/2" shank to be put into a beam drilling machine. I just picked up a 28 like that. Let me know if the the 30 and 32 have the flats and if you re interested in letting go of them.
> 
> - Tim


Interesting. When the wife gets home, I will sneak out there to take a closer look. Update to come.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

The devils drilll…...

MF #666










Eric


----------



## john2005

Nope, definitely cut.


----------



## walden

OK, here are mine:










Left to right: Miller Falls No. 2 I had restored, PS&W 12", Craftsman 10" (the one I use most), Stanley 965 8" (part of a Stanley tool chest). Box filled with an assortment of brands of auger bits.

Not related, but interesting - Stanley screwdrivers: Stanley/Yankee No. 4595 cabinet maker's, Stanley No. 20, and a Stanley No. 515.


----------



## woodcox

Nice breast drill Eric. High speed model?

That no.2 looks very clean, nice resto there Walden. No. 515 is a spiral driver?


----------



## walden

Woodcox: No, it is a flat head with a screw grabber so you can hold the screw while getting it into tight spaces.


----------



## Tim457

Looks like you're right John. Maybe the previous owner didn't have a brace with a chuck big enough to fit. What size are the shanks? If 1/2" they still could be modified with a flat to go in a beam drilling machine or a post drill. Whatever you do, that set is in nice shape and good for making large mortices. You'll have to make something with timber frame joints just so you can use them.

Nice boring set Walden.


----------



## lynnChris

Nice collection


----------



## bandit571

Didn't have the $35-50 a piece these went for…









They sold the braces here as a set…$25









and the 12 braces by the saws? Didn't stick around to find out..









Imagine a TENT filled with this stuff…...27 June 2015…...


----------



## bandit571

Let the drooling begin…..


----------



## Tim457

That's just mean Bandit. Those drilling machines are in nice shape and quite a deal for them too.


----------



## bandit571

The meanest part? I had to stand there and just watch…..They got out of my price range very quicly….all I got from that auction was a pair of wood bodied planes..$5 for the pair









Spent almost that much for the chisel at an Antique Store just down the street…..Only had $16 in my pocket that day….bummed out. One of these cardboard trays was FULL of chisels…..$25????









Made for a LONG day….and it even rained…


----------



## realcowtown_eric

and just where was this sale??

Eric


----------



## bandit571

Urbana, Ohio. Down by Sweeting Tire Co. For more details, PM JeffplaneJeff a fellow LJ on here.


----------



## theoldfart

Finally got a good 14" MF #30









Looks like a need to make a bore chest 









And I still have two sets of RJ's and a hollow auger and tenon pointer to put away


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Holy Cow, you've amassed a serious GI-heavy arsenal Kevin! Very, very nice!


----------



## theoldfart

I am just boring


----------



## DanKrager

Yah, Kev, going in circles like that is boring… 

Nice collection! My 14" brace has a thread problem in the chuck, so someday I'm gonna take it apart and see what the hang up is. Too many miles I'm afraid. But I have friends in machinist places. Which reminds me, ALIII is alive and well, just very very busy. I used some of my collection on the saw bench till locks and was impressed with how fast they cut!

DanK


----------



## realcowtown_eric

It's bin a breast drill week. Pristine pre Stanley Yankee 1555, nobody apparenty put it in high gea as the greasr. So sweet , and has side handle


----------



## bandit571

Got all of this cleaned up, and ready to go…..might need to build a till for all of this….









Maybe?


----------



## WayneC

Or some hanging storage.


----------



## Tim457

Yeah I'm a fan of your overhead storage rack Wayne. Very convenient.


----------



## darinS

a few questions for the esteemed panel. What, if anything, can you guys tell me about this brace? All I know is that it used to be my grandfather's who passed it to my father. I came into possession of it with the passing of my father and know nothing more about it.









Additionally, what is this?









and lastly, the number stamped into the bit is the diameter of the bit in 16ths, right? So a bit with a 6 stamped on it would make a 3/8" hole?


----------



## WayneC

The brace looks like a 60s to 70s brace. Not sure of manufacture.

Correct on Bit Sizes.

The bit is an expansive bit. You can adjust the size of the hole it drills.


----------



## DanKrager

Well, almost Wayne. You can adjust the bit so it drills different sized holes. It's really hard to adjust the hole! Let's not confuse the noob! 
DanK
Edit: nice looking stuff there NCIS fan darinS. You'll soon appreciate the inheritance.

Just rattling your cage, Wayne.


----------



## WayneC

lol


----------



## darinS

Thanks guys, I greatly appreciate the advice. I do appreciate the inheritance and plan to put it to use. Hopefully I will also be able to expand on it as well.

Thanks again guys.

Go Gibbs!!


----------



## WayneC

Gibbs Rules rule.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

This is a cabinet I cobbled up some years back to hold a few of the common sized brace with distinctive featuress. The image has been posted before on other defunct old tool sites. There are 33 braces within that 4' wide cabinet (11" depth) but the doors have yet to be populated










I havent decided yet what boring old tools to populate the doors with. Any suggestions?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ That is some seriously efficient brace storage, eric! And tgat breast drill looked good (pic didn't do it much favor, though).

What to add to the doors? Maybe pointers and moticers?


----------



## DLK

Thats a lot of braces. They do seem easy to find. I got 6 (of varying sweeps) without even trying. I just kept finding them for sale at $2 or less and could not resist. I should mke a display and post them.


----------



## CFrye

Eric, either your braces are really tiny (and I am seriously envious) or that is one huge hammer!


----------



## theoldfart

^ I'm going with the big hammer!


----------



## Mosquito

That's what I was thinking too, something seemed off lol

I like the storage cabinet. I've got my 3 main users hung on a french cleat rack and was thinking about building a cabinet to hold them eventually


----------



## DanKrager

BRK sold his camera?
DanK


----------



## bandit571

Well, a hanging wall cabinet won't work in the Dungeon Shop. So, since there is a space freed up near the bench…









Made to hold all six of mine. Trying to decide on " Chucks up? or Chucks down??" Making a slotted rail to hold the chucks









Tired of thin tabs snapping off…adding a 1/4" thick plywood should help prevent that. Waiting on the glue to cure. Have a second one to build, sixed for the non-chuck ends. Did find a second (out of 3!!) clamps to help things out









Had to even up the sloped sides, and clean off saw marks ( unsightly things..)









Letting things sit for a bit, right now….


----------



## realcowtown_eric

When House of tools in Calgary went T*ts up, everything was for sale at ever increasing discounts. I was chatting with Eugene, their tool repairman in SE calgary store and noticed the hammer over his work bench. ?for sale? Yep. asked him to sign it. I think he thought I was nuts, bit where u gonna find another estwing promo like that.

But someone else scored the Starret display

Reminds me, I have to hang my MF lighted sign. These things don't come available in desirable forms very often, so I was pleased to get both of these at semi-reasonable prices.


----------



## DLK

Eric, I think we need some pictures.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Of a MF lighted sign, Definitely!

I'm thinking there's much tool porn sitting in Cowtown's neck of the woods that we'd drool over. Porch sitter that he is, the man has some tools. And tool knowledge. Good stuff…


----------



## bandit571

Well, another brace has snuck into the shop. Had to wire wheel off the red stuff, first









PS&W 3410 after the clean up. It even came with a bit!









So….should I keep this one? The brace that is. Bit is a 10/16…5/8".

Sheesh, get rid of one..two more show up…..


----------



## DLK

Yes. They multiply like rabbits. I almost bought another common brace for $2 today, but I resisted. I think I have 8 braces now. MaybeI should get one for each different auger bit. This would cut the time to change the bits.


----------



## theoldfart

Don, that's how braces used to work. They had one brace for each size bit .

Something like this


----------



## DLK

Well it would sure be easy and cheap to do. I think a 13 brace & bit set would only cost 13*2.50 = 32.50.
Maybe thats a new mission. (I easily find common braces for $2 and auger bits for $0.50.)


----------



## bandit571

Or trade a tricycle for an alrady asemble set?


----------



## realcowtown_eric

3 years ago I watched a fella at an antique show pay 85 CDN (back when it was close to par with us$) and he looked happy.

for what, an 8 bit set of plebian used irwin auger bits. Old bits are literally a dime a dozen, but often times they are so misharpened bent, or worn out (no lip left) that they ain't worth a nickle.

That being said, there are of course the single twist irwins, I think available in eight flavours if memory serves me right, the RJ, bates, gedge, fine medium coarse screw feeds, sppon, shell, gimlet, short dowel, spur and who knows what other variations of bit stock drill bits.

Anything but boring!

Eric


----------



## theoldfart

Today's saga. Waiting for delivery of three Russell Jennings dowel bits. Lost out on a flea bay bid for a set of Ford auger bits, was depressed. Then a friend gave me a heads up on a set of Russell Jennings 101's. Bought 'em.

Any body want to buy a set of Russell Jennings 100's? I have two sets, really only need one. PM me if your interested.


----------



## theoldfart

Don't know if folks are familiar with dowel bits, but these three arrived today. Two are Russell jennings the third is unmarked. I've shown a standard size and a ships bore size for comparison. Three down, ten to go.


----------



## WayneC

The dowel bits are cool. I'm going to keep my eyes out for them. Congrats on the 101's.


----------



## theoldfart

Wayne, I've been chasing the dowel bits for some time. I don't know if they were sold in sets, every thing i've seen has been individual bits. Jon Zimmer had several on his site, but they were $15 to $20 each.

I really appreciate the heads up on the 101's, never saw the posting.


----------



## WayneC

You're welcome. They look like a great set.


----------



## Tim457

I've seen those short bits, didn't realize they were called dowel bits. I don't think any I saw were in good shape enough or I didn't know of a use that would be worth it. What are they used for that a longer bit isn't as good for?


----------



## theoldfart

Easier to drill straight using a dowell jig like the Stanley 59 or 60.


----------



## Tim457

Cool thanks. More stuff to add to the wish list.


----------



## DanKrager

I'm glad WayneC enabled someone else, Kevin! Nice find. I'd sorta been looking out for 101s, but way back burner. Too many other "bargains" tsunamied up on me! Congratulations.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, I gave Wayne a heads up a little while ago on a set of 101's, never thought another set would come up so soon. I've only seen three sets since I joined this band of enablers a few years ago.


----------



## TheFridge

A couple braces and bits I picked up recently. A couple each craftsman and Stanley and a variety of bits.

















Don't really know what this thing is though. Reminds me of a tap handle kinda.


----------



## theoldfart

Auger bit handle, usually used for large bits. Sort of an upgrade from the one piece wooden ones used in timber framing. Some even had ratchets.


----------



## bandit571

Auger "T" handle. That LONG auger bit, with the square end? Gets locked into this handle


----------



## TheFridge

Makes sense. Thought it was something along those lines.


----------



## theoldfart

Postman brought goodies today, Russell Jennings 101's ;-)









They're in good shape









Box not so much


----------



## Tim457

Ooh those are in good shape. As for the box, you can't win em all I guess. Nice square too.


----------



## theoldfart

I was psyched to get them in such good shape.


----------



## CFrye

Congratulations, Kevin! Can you post a pic of the back of the box, specifically the hinge?


----------



## theoldfart

Candy, I'll post some tonight


----------



## CFrye

Thanks! For what it's worth, I think it's a great box, just needs that brass clasp replaced and the wood cleaned up a bit (pun not intended).


----------



## DLK

I have an auger file on order through True Value Hardware at $9.00. They said it was from Nicholson, but I thought Nicholson stopped making them? And $9 seems to low? Who is actually making these cheap files? (I'm waiting for a Lee Valley free shipping promotion to get one from them plus other stuff.)


----------



## theoldfart

Don, that does seem low. I'm pretty sure Nicholson had stopped making them, that's why they sell for so much on the 'Bay. Let us know how it works out, I'd sure like a lower cost source.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm, SPAM ALERT!
Anyway, fix a No.29 plane that had "issues". Test track is white oak









Felt so good, I almost couldn't stop









Stanley No.29 is now fixed and ready for work…


----------



## theoldfart

Candy here you go. I have three sets. Front









back









and with the hood up









Just a quick reminder, i am selling one the 100 sets. PM me if there is any interest. Next up will be the buy/sell thread


----------



## Tim457

> I have an auger file on order through True Value Hardware at $9.00. They said it was from Nicholson, but I thought Nicholson stopped making them? And $9 seems to low? Who is actually making these cheap files? (I m waiting for a Lee Valley free shipping promotion to get one from them plus other stuff.)
> 
> - Combo Prof


Nicholson makes most (all?) their files overseas now and most are very low quality. But since there aren't many options for a higher quality auger bit file, hopefully that one will be decent. Let us know how it works.


> Candy here you go. I have three sets.
> - theoldfart


Show off. Hah, really though keep showing off. Who are we kidding? I would have been very interested, but I found a nice set of Irwin's recently.


----------



## CFrye

Interest is definitely there, Kevin. Finances, on the other hand, not so much. Thanks for the pics. I'd not seen the boxes before. Really like the super hinge!


----------



## theoldfart

Candy, Russell Jennimgs actually patented the box somewhere around 1865 to 1870 or so.


----------



## upchuck

Old Fart-
Are those stop hinges? I don't know if that is the right terminology but what I mean is does the hinged part open up only to a certain point and then no farther? It looks like the lid stays at the same angle when opened on all three of your examples. And does the same sort of "stop" work on all levels of of each box?
Thanks,
chuck


----------



## theoldfart

No stop chuck, just old stiff hinges!


----------



## upchuck

Thanks, Kevin.


----------



## theoldfart

RJ bits are sold.


----------



## DLK

> Don, that does seem low. I m pretty sure Nicholson had stopped making them, that s why they sell for so much on the Bay. Let us know how it works out, I d sure like a lower cost source.
> 
> - theoldfart





> Nicholson makes most (all?) their files overseas now and most are very low quality. But since there aren t many options for a higher quality auger bit file, hopefully that one will be decent. Let us know how it works.
> 
> - Tim


My man at True Value says Nicholson was bought out by Apex Tool Group and make many of the Hand tools for True Value. They have a webpage but searching it I can't find the auger file… yet. (Piss poor search engine.) They ordered 6 auger files to sell at $8.95 each. I asked them to set aside 2 for me. I'll try it out and let you know. I cannot imagine it can be too bad. But we will see.


----------



## bandit571

Well, saws have been sold, others are all cleaned up. No planes to clean for now..

Have a til for MOST of the braces mocked up. Too late today to start cutting on things. Sprayed RAID! around down there. Was getting tired of spiders rappelling down onto my nose..

Keeping a notched holder. Now have a plywood back to size. Oak for the sides. One or two other pieces to cut up. It will hold 6 braces….the "extra one" is a Millers Falls with a BIG, wide Holdall chuck. It may get stashed in the #2 Tool Chest…

Nuttin' fancy it will be standing up….....


----------



## bandit571

Well, spent just over an hour today..building a new home for MOST of the braces to sit in…









Halfway there…









Added a second holder, to keep things standing up, and not falling over on each other..test fit.









Three screws to hold this thing in place. had to move a 1"x30" beltsander out of the way. Need to find a new spot for the sander. All but one ( for now) of the braces are now in their home. Haven't decided on a finish just yet…


----------



## bandit571

Well, the braces are put away, need to clean up the bits for them..









Found a 16" long one in the pile, too. The bigger set goes from a #5 up to a Craftsman #20. There is a Craftsman #12 in there too. The smaller set? Still checking them out. 









Have a nice stash of 1/2" thick oak sitting around, doing nothing, maybe a box for these things?









To be continued…


----------



## theoldfart

Absolutely cool do-hickey, works like a charm.


----------



## bandit571

This might just do…









Holds MOST of the bits..









Might work out..


----------



## theoldfart

Yup, most assuredly!


----------



## CFrye

Depth stop, Kevin? It stops the chuck, and therefore the bit, when the chuck reaches it?
Added to the To Do list, Bandit. Very nice storage box.


----------



## theoldfart

Candy, depth stop yes but it doesn't stop the chuck. It gives you a visual clue (bent spring) that you've reached your depth. Hope this helps. I can post a pick or two tomorrow if you want.


----------



## CFrye

I could see it was bent, but didn't know it was a spring. I will rarely say 'no' to more pictures! Appreciate it.


----------



## theoldfart

Candy, a quick primer on depth stops









From the left, a Stanley #60 dowel guide and stop, the middle one is a Stanley #49, and finally a Stanley #47

The 60 is the same as a 59 just has more bushings. It allows for precise repeatable placement of your bores


















The 49 can be used anywhere, unlike the 59 & 60 which need to be near an edge.


















One drawback to the 49 is it will make a mark on the surface if you let it hit, similar to the mark you get from a power drill countersink collar.

Finally the 48









I like this one because it is forgiving as far as marks are concerned. It clamps to the shaft, you set it for the depth you want and drill away.


















I set this one for 2 1/8"









Hope this helps.


----------



## upchuck

TOF-
Thanks for the drill depth stop primer. Those are a lot more precise and classy then masking tape.
chuck


----------



## Tim457

Those are really cool, thanks for the info, TOF. It's no fair I've never seen even one of these in the wild and you have 4. Is the depth stop on that 47 bendable, spring or what?


----------



## theoldfart

Tim, yes it is just a spring. As for the 49, lots of 'em on the bay.


----------



## theoldfart

One note about the 49, it slips a bit on large bits 3/4" and up that's why I use the 47.

This is from a chair set I made for my granddaughter 








I could just slide the guide down the back and have a mortise parallel for the back slats.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Kevin, awesome primer on those stops. Thanks for the expose'!

Break-break, new subject: anyone suggest what this is?


----------



## theoldfart

Some sort of chuck. Does the drill bit fit up inside of the threaded rod?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hoping it's a 1/2" adapter for a post drill. Pic shortly, haven't gotten over to the shop with it yet.


----------



## theoldfart

That makes sense


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Crap, shaft is 5/8"...


----------



## theoldfart

And your post is?


----------



## ToddJB

That's for the info, OF.

Smitty, did that come in a Carls Jr. Kids meal?


----------



## CFrye

Primer absorbed, understood and saved! The chair pic and notes were definite bonuses! Thanks, Kevin.


----------



## bandit571

Ok, Grandson dropped off three of these …"things" yesterday









One needs a new handle made, another needs something better done to the knob..









Ah..yeah. I cleaned the chucks a bit









Two were plated, but one was blued? I did find a name on the blued chuck..Millers Falls Co. 
I fixed it's knob. Pulled the four nails, and the strip of packing tape out of it. Cleaned the parts a bit, found some good wood to put a couple screws into. Added a wipe-on of BLO..









Now the question: When did Millers Falls ever blue the metal on their braces? That isn't "patina" that is almost a "Gun Metal Blue" on the whole brace. The other two are nickel plated, and are almost clones of each other. Haven't found any names on them. Their chucks have a wire spring on the jaws. Very short area for the jaws to sit in, too. Their painted handles of red or black? The knobs have the same two rings turned into them.

$7-$8 each is what he paid for them….he left the tags on them….


----------



## WayneC

I would look here for millers falls info…

http://oldtoolheaven.com/brace/brace.htm


----------



## bandit571

WayneC: Did indeed go there last night…...not a thing about "Blued" metal parts…..maybe a WWII sort of thing???


----------



## bandit571

manage to find a trace of the model no. on the arm…..1662.

Millers Falls Co. is repeated going around the chuck…twice.

Aligator jaws have a pin as the spring. Everything seems to work on it….


----------



## WayneC

Excellent


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Seven bits arrived yesterday, and auction find by #2 son: seven Russell Jennings No. 100 pieces, all look new, all sharp and very clean. No box or roll, though. Pic tomorrow am, so it happened.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hmmm…. R-J sold a 17 1/2 Quarters bit set, consisting of seven pcs: 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14 and 16. Gotta check these sizes.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop




----------



## WayneC

Very nice. Build a box for them?


----------



## Mosquito

Dang those look nice Smitty


----------



## bandit571

Smitty needs one of these boxes??









Lid on mine was just some curly maple scraps….









Smitty can use the woods of his choice…of course..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I'm thinking of taking up sewing, Bandit. I like bit rolls over boxes, takes up less space.


----------



## theoldfart

Smitty, my wife made me one and it saves beaucoup space. Found two more at a cutlery factory store. Need two more for the RJ's I have in boxes. The boxes are nice but, major space hogs.


----------



## DanKrager

A tool roll is a good idea for bits. I want to preserve the RJ box I have and having it knock around in a till is gonna abuse it fierce. What material are you using?

I made a beautiful box for my chisels, but it is a space hog compared to a tool roll. How do you protect the material as well as the cutting edge?
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, I'm in an airport once again. I will be home Sunday and I'll post a few pics. The one my wife made from light weight duck material. The purchase ones are a heavier canvas. The extras get bits I just got are in an original burlap roll.


----------



## ToddJB

I picked up a whatsit last night.

So whatsit?


----------



## theoldfart

Chain drill, maybe Millers Falls. Fits a bit brace.


----------



## Brit

Depth stop?


----------



## ToddJB

Chain drill it is, Kev.

Is this how you would use it?


----------



## theoldfart

Yep


----------



## ToddJB

Interesting. Cool. I'll clean it up a bit and see if there is any markings on it.


----------



## WayneC

Might also be a Goodell Pratt. I could not find a stand alone chain drill on the millers falls site. The one I saw was a dedicated model that had both a chain drill head and a normal chuck.

I have a North Brothers and a Goodell Pratt


----------



## DLK

Concerning these chain drills, is there pressure put on the bit via the chain? Does the chain tighten as you crank the drill? How do they work exactly? What advantage does the chain give you? Just curious.

(Try googling chain drill and see what you get. It was not helpful.)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ I've wondered all of those things, too.


----------



## DanKrager

I've never used one, but the design appears to draw the chain tighter as the drill is operated. The threads that the chain holder rides upon either turn with the chuck or can be turned by hand (the third one) while you crank the drill. This is not a tool for wood cutting bits with a threaded pilot, should be used only with metal cutting twist drill. That's not to say you can't drill a wood post with it, but the choice of bits is limited. It is a very desirable feature if you are drilling a deep or large diameter hole in a metal beam or post. Still, it's very hard work I imagine.
0.02

DanK


----------



## DLK

Thanks, DanK


----------



## Tim457

Some of the chain drills don't tighten the chain automatically, they have some other mechanism you have to tighten separately. As far as I can tell, the auto-tightening versions were new and fancy improvements at some point.

Todd do you have some of those twist drills with tapered square ends to fit in the brace chuck on that?


----------



## ToddJB

I do not, Tim. Nor do I think I really have a use for the chain drill itself. I might be moving it along.


----------



## ToddJB

Goodell Pratt it is. And this is an auto tightening one.










Cleaned off just enough to find the label. Also threw some oil on it and everything seems to work smoothly.


----------



## thirdrail

Once upon a time, chain drills must have been pretty important. The 1926 Goodell Pratt catalog has eleven different models, both automatic and manual advance. Chuck styles included three jaw (round drill), two jaw (square shank drill), 1/2 inch round shank only (set screw) and No. 1 and No. 2 Morse taper sockets. There were three models of the Giant Chain Drill (their name) which offered a 4×6 in iron frame and two five foot sash chains. The biggest of these ("...very much larger and heavier than any other Chain Drill ever manufactured.") was 11 inches tall (exclusive of chain ) and weighed 6 lbs.
Your looks like an early model of a No. 307 which would make it a two jaw chuck model.

Bart Nadeau


----------



## Boatman53

I seem to have acquired quite a few of the twist bits with the square shank.










Jim


----------



## theoldfart

Answered a CL ad yesterday, price was low so I had my fingers crossed. Guess what?

*JACKPOT*

I'm happier than a porcine quadruped in a vessel of fecal matter. A complete Canedy Otto Mfg .No.00 post drill !














































Everything moves, nothing broken. It will be a wintertime restore


----------



## DanKrager

Well, bless my grits. Goodonya, TOF! One shoulder is gonna be really sculpted while the other just withers away!

DanK


----------



## TheFridge

> One shoulder is gonna be really sculpted while the other just withers away!
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Sounds like my personal life


----------



## AnthonyReed

Congrats Kev!


----------



## JayT

Sweet, Kevin! I've had to pass on a couple opportunities to buy a post drill because I don't have anywhere to put one. Can't wait to build a bigger shop and then I, too, will be looking for one.


----------



## Mosquito

sweet Kevin! I've enjoyed having mine for no particular reason  But then again, mine is also my only drill press to speak of lol


----------



## theoldfart

JayT, my small cellar shop is a bit tight but I will find a way. I may make a rotating mount to attach to a column. The LOML agreed to give up some space so I can store my wood stash in the storage side of the cellar so more room may be at hand.

Dan, Tony thanks. Dan, sculpted is not a word to be used in the same sentence as my name!

see what I mean


----------



## theoldfart

Moss, I have a small Delta bench top and it's not the most accurate thing. Probably sell it if the post thing works out.


----------



## Mosquito

and take it apart to hang it… holy crap those suckers are heavy lol


----------



## theoldfart

Tell me about it, carried from my truck into the house and down the cellar stairs!


----------



## Mosquito

I carried mine up to my 3rd floor apartment by myself… took a little rest after that to get moving again lol


----------



## Brit

Congrats Kev, that thing is a beast.


----------



## Mosquito

It actually looks really similar to mine… if I had pictures of it


----------



## Mosquito




----------



## theoldfart

Moss, same one! 'Cept mine's dirtier and unrestored.


----------



## Mosquito

Mine doesn't have the manufacturer markings like yours does, I'll try to get some better pictures tonight. I think it has the No. 00 though, and maybe another one somewhere, 86 maybe? I bet if I looked far enough back in this thread I've probably shared pictures of it


----------



## theoldfart

Some of the 00's were two speeds, I can't figure out how on mine.


----------



## Mosquito

About the only other meaningful picture I have of it at the moment










I've taken mine all apart (to get it mounted on the wall it's on now). Also took the opportunity to clean and oil it up before I started using it too. I don't know that mine has two speeds, but if it did I would imagine it would have something to do with maybe swapping the two gears between the crank and the one that's on the flywheel axle?


----------



## theoldfart

I think when they refer to two speeds they are referring to the feed speed not the drill speed. Somehow you change the stroke distance of the pawl on top.


----------



## WayneC

That is a really nice find Kevin. I've been drooling on the North Brothers models. I would like one but already have two powered drill presses in the shop.

Also, I bought a Goodell Pratt 2512 Brace on eBay this week to go with my 2510. Just need to find a 2508…

You can find them on this page. Heavy duty. Below is my 2510 compared to a Yankee 2100-10.


----------



## Mosquito

Oh, for that Keven, you use that thumb screw









If that's what they call speeds, mine has 3. At wide open, the pawl advances 3 teeth at a time, and can be adjusted down to 1 (or none, but what's the point? lol)

Good Stuff Wayne!


----------



## DLK

*TheOldFart* When you mount that post drill on the wall make sure you don't mount the crank gears above shoulder height. It will seem odd that the table is so low, but you will save your back, arm and shoulder muscles if you mount where you can comfortably turn the crank. I actually like it to be a little lower. Experiment a little and you will see.


----------



## theoldfart

Don thanks, I figured leverage wise a low mount would work. The ones I've seen in blacksmith shops were on the low side.


----------



## Tim457

That's an awesome find. Made me go check CL again to see if one had been listed.


----------



## theoldfart

Tim, I've been watching for many moons. Passed on several for $150 or so. This one set me back $65, that I can afford.


----------



## CFrye

$65! That is You Suck range, Kevin! Awesome pick up, congratulations!


----------



## DLK

^ I agree. I paid $150 for my similar machine. Although the one I got required no restoration. Its a really cool machine. I have not obtained silver and deming bits for it. I did install a jacobs chuck to use with regular bits. Here are some links I found interesting or helpful.

http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/new-post-drill-chuck/






http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/drilling/postdril.htm

http://www.beautifuliron.com/thepost.htm

http://doesyourcityhavecountryroads.com/post-drill-restoration-and-modification-a-sustainable-shop-tool/


----------



## DLK

The real questions concerning post drills for us are I think. When and on what would you uses these in the wood shop? What is an appropriate use for them? I think they were designed for drilling metal and not wood. Is there a situation where in the woodshop a brace will not do?.


----------



## theoldfart

^ every time I need a straight accurate hole! Still working on mastering that particular skill.


----------



## DLK

^the thing is you can buy an electric bench top drill for about the same cost as a post drill and it will drill straight accurate holes and is reasonably quite. So unless your going completely off grid its almost hard to justify the post drill …. except I have one and its very cool … so I'm looking for a reason I guess of how I should put it to good use. Maybe I could have spent the money on a more useful tool, but its just so cool I had to have it.


----------



## theoldfart

I have a Delta bench top and I'm not happy with it. I'm also aiming for no tailed tools. Next up is a treadle jig saw and treadle lathe.


----------



## Bundoman

Mine set me back $30 at a flea market last year. It needed a little work. For me, it was the coolness factor of the old machine coupled with the memories of one that hung in my grandparents machine shed. And it was cheap! (My worst downfall). My younger daughter will sit on a stool in front of it and turn the crank just to watch the gears and ratchet work. She finds it fascinating.

I do agree that a standard drill press is simple to use and confess that I have two electric drill presses that I use for most of the things that I do. But, when I want to drill a one inch hole in steel, this is my go to machine. It is very good at turning the bits slowly and with slow advance. My powered presses are too fast and I only drill steel periodically so for me, it is a fit. I like the gear chatter when using it too!

Nice find!


----------



## theoldfart

Don, silver and deming bits ? What are they?


----------



## racerglen

Kevin, those bits have a half inch shank for all sizes, making them a fit for the original chuck on a post drill, but they require a flat to be milled on one side of the shank for the set "screw" to lock onto the bit. I picked up a set for my Champion Blower and Forge P/D at about 30 bucks on sale then had to cough up another 20 to have the flats milled. My set is from 9/16ths to an inch.


----------



## theoldfart

Glen, thanks


----------



## DLK

They are as I understand the drill bit to be used in a post drill. According to wikepedia:

One particular type of reduced-shank drill bits are Silver & Deming (S&D) bits, whose sets run from 9/16" to 1-1/2" drill body diameter with a standard 1/2" reduced shank for all. This allows drill presses with 1/2" chucks to run the larger drills. S&D bits are 6" long with a 3" flute length.

The chuck on a post drill (unless it has been modified) accepts 1/2" straight shanked drill bits, the need a flat on one side. There are as I see it 4 options to make the post drill into a user.


Find antique post drill bits on e-bay.
Buy modern silver and demming drill bits and grind a flat on one side. I have been *strongly encourage to do this* and I've been garage sale looking for them. They are not so cheap, but an relatively inexpensive set is available from Harbor Freight.
Buy a 1/2" straight shank arbor for a Jacob's chuck, grind a flat on one side. Screw on a Jacobs chuck. I bought both from amazon. Not very expensive. *Most people I think do this*, because it allows you to use regular twist bits. I did have to also taper the end of the arbor in order for it to fit into my post drill chuck and I don't know why. Others have not had this problem.
Remove the original chuck from the post drill take the remaining spindle to a machine shop and have them either
tap the spindle to accept a screw on Jacob's chuck or grind a morris tape for a tapered Jacob's chuck.

I've just been reorganizing my shop and decided to resurrect my vintage dunlop lathe and lost my space for the post drill. I'm trying to find a new spot now.

Eventually I to will build a lathe with out a tail, but not today.


----------



## Mosquito

Unless you were wanting to go with the original chuck, it's not really necessary Kevin. The one you've got has a modern Jacobs chuck in it, which is what I did with mine too.


----------



## DLK

^My bad. I did not recall seeing a modern Jacob's chuck on Keven's post drill. Too lazy to scroll back and look at the pictures again I guess. LOL.

These post drill bits on ebay is not a bad buy.


----------



## theoldfart

Thanks for all the info. Guess I'll work with what's on there now. BUT latter the collector in me will need to be satisfied.


----------



## WayneC

Man now I have post drill envy. 

My 
Goodell Pratt 2512 brace showed up yesterday. I have 10 and 12 inch sweep. Need to find the 8" version. The disk is used to select ratchet modes. The last photo shows it in comparison to a North Brothers Yankee.














































Some info on this line of braces…


----------



## WayneC

This is the drill I have been Jonesing for…


----------



## theoldfart

Wayne the GP's look every bit as stout as the Yankees, have noticed any difference in using them both? The Yankee you gave me is now my go to brace.
That Yankee post looks like a beast as well. Looks like the table brings the work to the drill?


----------



## DLK

Drilled three holes with my Buck Rogers today. Most fun I had all day, which started off picking up and moving in a pump organ that my wife just had to have ($50). Pump organs are difficult to sell and usually sell in the $100 to $200 range. So she she did well. Anyway its solid walnut so I figure it is easily worth $50 in wood alone. But I bet she won't let me cut it up. One more day and the new workbench will be moved in and photos taken.


----------



## theoldfart

Allrighty right then, pics anticipated!


----------



## DanKrager

Combo, if you need any parts for that organ, let me know. I probably have them in stock (someplace). I know I have several complete banks of reeds including the elusive bass reeds. Long story behind this, but basically an old timer years ago took me under his wing to tutor me in the finer points of mechanical music instrument making. Then he ups and dies leaving me with a humongous inventory. No ungrateful because there were many tools involved too. At first I thought is was a good match for my woodworking and mechanical skills, but I've kinda been uninspired. I have $8000 worth of solid brass pipes, two sets of 42 Tangley pattern pipes I built, and many parts for a Tangley calliaphone. (Calliaphone is air blown and a calliope is steam blown). Finished and working a Tangley calliaphone can bring upwards of $34,000.

OK. Back to drilling. Carry on!

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Drill baby drill ?


----------



## DLK

Thanks *DanK*, So as not to derail the drilling I'll send you a pm.


----------



## Tim457

Yeah Wayne as soon as I found out post drills were not made for woodworking I searched and found those bench drills that are. That meant I need to have one of those too, but they go for big money on Ebay. Of course I still need a post drill too for the coolness factor and they can be had more reasonably.


----------



## Boatman53

Those are some nice looking braces, and the post drill is a great find.
I'm doing more cleaning out of things that I haven't used and thought I'd offer this up. I've ride to find a RJ Precision brace but have had no luck so I'll try here. Anybody have a 10" Russell Jennings precision brace they would like to sell? If not does this set interest anyone?














































It's missing four bits but sone of the often lost bits are there. The shanks are round with a slot to engage the chuck, not the usual square end.

Jim


----------



## Mosquito

That's a pretty cool set Jim.

Tim, I want one of those woodworking drill presses too, but yeah… prices hurt a little.

What I like about the post drill, is that they work pretty well for larger forstner bits, that don't typically feed quickly anyway. Though I often get impatient and manually crank the spindle down quicker by hand for much of it, depending on what I'm doing lol


----------



## DLK

I'll give it a try with my largest forstner bit. By large what size do you mean? I wonder how it would work with other large bits for example hole saws?


----------



## Mosquito

I've never tried with a hole saw, but I've used it for with 1-3/8" forstner bit a few times


----------



## theoldfart

Mounted









Mos. I took your advice and set it low. Makes a big difference on the shoulder that's for sure!


----------



## Mosquito

Not sure it was me who said it, but that's what I did too, mounted it lower, so the center of the crank was about shoulder height.

If it were me, I'd probably cut a piece of 2×4 to fit between the floor and the bottom of the board the post drill is mounted to. Probably unnecessary, but just seems like it would want to slide down over time otherwise.


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, the clamps are threaded rod I bent myself, they are bitting into the column. I tried to make it slip, no go, it's solid for now.


----------



## Mosquito

Oh gotcha. I thought they were those smooth U-bolt ones


----------



## theoldfart

The ready made u bolts wouldn't fit so I made a jig and bent my own


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

My current fave eggbeater:



















Used it to pre-drill for a few siding nails this afternnon.


----------



## DanKrager

Smitty, my eyes or the screen isn't good enough to see for sure, but did you clip a nail to use for predrilling? Only old people do that, ya know.

Also, if you're old enough, you know that you can beat the point of a nail flat before you drive it and it won't split the wood. Works best (in fact it only works) in soft woods…

DanK


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Nope, it's a real bit. Yes, on old enough for nail bits and blunted nails. But predrilling vintage siding at the ends when I'm short of material to begin with, just made sense and only took a few extra seconds.


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, our post drills are two speed, just move the handle to the other shaft. Like so









It is really slllooooowwwww!


----------



## Mosquito

Dan, I've used nails for pre-drilling before (actually more like just a mechanically advantaged awl). Works great. I usually use the technique with small nails on square dowel that I use in my mini wooden computers.

lol I bet Kevin. Wonder how involved it would be to get some new gears, bigger for the crank and smaller for the drive… gear it up a little.

Also, I had some issues with that screw that holds the hand crank gear on. Not sure if it was the washer that had issues or what, but every now and then (with relative frequency) the screw would just grab and tighten itself down while in use, to the point where you couldn't really turn it anymore, and had to crank backwards to get it to loosen up.

I "solved" it by figuring out how deep the threaded hole was, and put a small piece of steel rod in the bottom of the hole, and tightened the screw down until it hit that. It got it so it was held with out much play, but haven't had the problem since. Just an FYI, in case you run into that issue.

The screw that holds the crank hub on mine is also stripped… haven't done anything about that yet, other than taped the screw in place (it works lol)


----------



## Mosquito

Also, one thing I did with mine to help with the gearing issue, was I moved the handle a little closer to the hub. Your arm makes a smaller circle and thus moves less that way. Little easier to crank a little quicker. I usually seem to settle in at around 60rpm or so, regardless.


----------



## theoldfart

I'm having a runout issue with the post drill









Tracked it down to two things. The first is the table itself the second is a bad chuck. So i got the table pretty square. The chuck is another story. So my plan is to use blacksmith post drill bits for the time being. Anybody got any?

I put a dial gauge on the original chuck and the runout is imperceptible, put the gauge on the Jacobsen chuck and sure enough that's the problem.


----------



## Mosquito

Ouch… I have a 1/2" post drill bit somewhere… I'll have to check if it's in the garage. If it's not, it's packed already


----------



## theoldfart

Mos, Just mounted a 1/2" bit and square as can be









Did a test drill in 2" of White Oak and perfect. I'm happy 

Looked at blacksmith post drill bits on feebly, all the new 1/2" ones are metric! The hunt is on.


----------



## Mosquito

I have one that's 1/2" and it's in the garage, but it looks like you've already got one? Or is that a modern bit?


----------



## theoldfart

Modern, just wanted to test my theory.

Edit: Mos let me know if you have one, something tells me they won't be easy to find.


----------



## Mosquito

PM Sent


----------



## WayneC

Mail Call. I received a new Goodell Pratt, hollow auger.


----------



## theoldfart

Looks good, what size pointer are you going to use?


----------



## WayneC

I've got two or three to play with. It will depend on the project. I've also got a few more augers. I liked the design of this one and so I picked it up.


----------



## theoldfart

Anxious to hear how it works


----------



## bigblockyeti

This is my favorite vintage hand drill, it doesn't have reverse or variable speed, but it fits perfect in my hand and is indispensable for pre-drilling for screws.


----------



## DanKrager

The trading trinket Todd referred to in a now long lost post was this:








I'm thrilled to have this addition to my shop. And look what he "threw in"... one of those fabulous hex bit screwdrivers he made. A treasure for sure!

You da man, Todd.

DanK


----------



## Slyy

SWEET DK, that Todd ain't a bad fella.


----------



## theoldfart

I would not recommend doing this









1/4" depth and I'm tired









Gonna' have to resort to killing electrons. Two holes to drill. One is a 2 5/8×3" bore the other is a 2 5/8" x 5 1/8" bore. My shoulders wouldn't last.


----------



## DanKrager

C'mon, Kev, ...you can do it. Drink some water, eat a candy bar, breath deeply and crank away. You've got some handle left to extend. Then tomorrow do the other one! LOL! Just do it, he says. It'll be fun he says.

Oh, and sharpen the bit.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Bit is brand new, I am not!


----------



## DanKrager

Brand new? I've seldom bought a new bit that was as sharp as I wanted it. You may be surprised at how much effort it saves. Ivandea that one could sharpen a set of bits for low speed drilling much different than the "optimum' angles for higher, powered speeds. YMMV.
DanK


----------



## theoldfart

I'll have to mull that one over Dan.


----------



## Tim457

That's pretty cool, Kevin, you can do it! Don't damage any joints though. That's the old chuck right, don't those take 1/2" shank bits with a flat on one side? Though now that I think about it as long as its a 1/2" shank and it has the modern three flats it should center fine and hold. That gives me some ideas for when I resurrect my beam drilling machine. At least with that you get to use both arms.


----------



## theoldfart

Tim, yea it came with a modern Jacobs but the shank was bent so I'm using the original 1/2" straight chuck. Mos sent me a 1/2" post bit and a neighbor just happened to have a half dozen other bits! The larger forstners bits come with 1/2" shanks.


----------



## DLK

I don't these post drills were designed for drilling wood, they spin to slow. I think they are designed for metal where you want slow speed with lots of pressure. But of course you might think a large diameter forstner bit would work except I think that the post drill puts to much down pressure on such a bit making it too difficult to turn fast enough. Can you take off the automatic feed and advance the drill with the top advancement hand crank with the left hand while the right turns the revolution crank.


----------



## theoldfart

Don, i gave it set to the least amount of advancement possible. It's just the large diameter. I used a 1" forstner with more success.


----------



## donwilwol

I had a duh momemnt yesterday. I saw a post drill set up like a bench top. I need to try it.


----------



## CL810

Another slippery slope begins. I'll return after I read the nearly 1,500 posts in this thread!


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, welcome to the party and get slidden!


----------



## Slyy

I 2nd Kev, Andy! Enjoy the read, not as much action as some of the other threads but this is one of my favorites!


----------



## 5murphy

Can anyone offer advice on restoring a lightly rusted brace without damaging the wood handles?


----------



## theoldfart

5Murph, check out Brit's blog


----------



## Slyy

^this


----------



## Tim457

Yep that blog is pretty much the way you're going to have to do it. Mask off the wood you can't remove, de grease and then rust remover gel. Then file, sand, and buff as needed. If you're in the states, the most common rust remover gel I see is Naval Jelly, but there are others at auto parts, hardware, and/or big box stores.

Edit: Don, I'm pretty sure you're right, they were designed for metal mostly.


----------



## chrisstef

Posting to get to the bottom.

Panel question - I was drilling a 3/4" holes in cherry last night and about 1/4 of the way through my the spur decided to not grab any more and my drilling stopped. It still needs to go another 4" through the piece of edge grain. Any suggestions? FWIW I do not have any coarse thread bits only fine thread.


----------



## theoldfart

Stef, did you sharpen the bit? Once it gets dull the drag is too much for the screw to pull and it just rips out.


----------



## chrisstef

I sharpened the when i bought em about 3 years ago but havent since. Ill give it a little touch up tonight and see how it works. Thanks OF.


----------



## Mosquito

Oh Kevin, I've so been there before lol Just crank a little faster and feed a little slower. Does take forever lol


----------



## theoldfart

Moss, finally threw in the towel and went electric. BAD MOVE. The bore angled and had to use rasps to clean it up, that sucked but everything's ok now.

Stef, also try cleaning them with some solvent. There may be pitch gumming the screw. Good luck.


----------



## Tim457

Stef, polishing the snail can make a big difference on how it feeds. Screw most of the snail into a piece of scrap then remove it and put your polishing compound of choice in the hole you just made. Then screw the snail in and out a bunch of times. I shave off little pieces of green polishing compound with a knife then push them in the hole.

Other thing is how much pressure are you putting on the brace? I used to think it was a problem with my sharpening if the auger bit stripped out, but watching Paul Sellers' videos he says you have to push in on the brace to keep it from stripping. Of course, it still may be a problem with my sharpening, but it's not all of it. Pushing in more fixed every time they stripped since I've tried it.


----------



## chrisstef

Ill def try the polishing. Snail … Didnt know that. I put a good bit of pressure down on the bit. I actually stand on a stool to get myself up a lil higher.

I appreciate all the advice fellers.


----------



## Slyy

You get a chance to try out any of the Above Stef? Interested in what helps.
6" brace for putting in screws and 2 egg eaters with drill and countersink seems the way to go electronless for this job!


----------



## DaddyZ

Nice set slyy


----------



## chrisstef

Id like to report back that a quick sharpening and a polishing of the snail did the trick. Like buttah baby.

Id also like to report that habanero beer is delicious. And spicy. Real spicy.


----------



## theoldfart

Glad it worked. Tims snail polish is now part of my Arsenal .


----------



## Tim457

Glad it you got it working. I bet the sharpening did more than polishing the snail, but maybe they both helped. And anyway, it's not my trick, I learned it from Logan Cabinet Shoppe:
https://logancabinetshoppe.wordpress.com/2009/09/23/episode-8/

Looking for that video I found this:
https://logancabinetshoppe.wordpress.com/2012/01/13/sharpening-auger-bits/

Which basically says you shouldn't have to add pressure and the lead screw should do it all. I guess I need better sharpening skills. And I have tried filing the threads a little with a saw file. It can work, but it is very tedious and hard to make much improvement.


----------



## donwilwol

Everywhere I go we're talking about missions to Mars. Are there hand planes on Mars? Will we find the vintage drill of our dreams on Mars?


----------



## DanKrager

It's likely a spammer promoting his movie.

DanK


----------



## DLK

> It s likely a spammer promoting his movie.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


I doubt it is his movie as he is now also promoting gone with the wind.


----------



## DanKrager

True dat.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

On a role today, just won a bid for 5 RJ dowel bits. Sizes 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.


----------



## bandit571

Thinned the herd a bit today. Along with a few planes, sold a Millers Falls 1032 10" with a HUGE Holdall chuck…..

Hey, when I already have a Samson by PEXTO….

Anyway, I hope the fellow enjoys this BIG, heavy brace..









I'll use the PEXTO 12" instead…









My high torque "cordless drill"....


----------



## theoldfart

These little beauties arrived today, 4,5,6,7,8 Russell Jennings dowel bits. Even the box was a vintage RJ box. Possibly NOS


----------



## Slyy

Awww, so cute Kev. Dowel bits for chair making etc, where you don't need a long bit?


----------



## theoldfart

Yup, to work with a 59 or 60 dowel guide.


----------



## Tim457

Those are sweet!


----------



## theoldfart

Tim, I've been watching for these bits for a while. They don't show up very often.


----------



## CFrye

Nice set, Kevin! I can see how those would be easier to use with the guide than the long bits!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Any insight out there, re: Cook's Patent bits?



















And an Irwin bit roll showed up:


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Good insight on post drills as I researched Cook's on the OldTools archive:

http://swingleydev.com/ot/get/76905/thread/#76905


----------



## theoldfart

Good stuff Smitty, thanks.


----------



## DLK

Excellent Smitty. I made a copy and stuck it to my forehead.


----------



## Mosquito

anyone combed through this yet?
http://www.georgesbasement.com/braces/RansomCook/RansomCookPatentAugerBits.htm


----------



## Slyy

Interesting design on those Cook's pattern bits. I find a lot of these early patents fascinating with the over complexity and, certainly in hindsight, poorly engineered designs. It certainly is no wonder why so many of them are rare and unique finds. Like these Cooks, how many times could you resharpening such a thin whispy cutter before it was useless? Especially those small ones.


----------



## Tim457

Nice one Smitty. I learned several things from that. The bit about the post drills and pressure, and the part about the gearing on a breast drill being no better than a brace. I was beginning to wonder if I needed the twist drill bits with the square shank, but I think I just found a reason to keep them.  Oh and the part about using an extra bit of dowel on an auger bit to keep it centered to enlarge a hole. You'd need the right saize dowel and to add extra pressure, but I bet it would work. Will have to try that.

Jake, I think it is Curtis Buchannon that likes the Cook's patent bits for chair making because you can steer them better than an Irwin.


----------



## bandit571

Along with the two other items in today's haul….









That eggbeater drill? Only markings are a "Made in USA" stamped into the arm of the crank. 









The gear has a triple ring to the edge..









The cap is intact, and inside were these three items..









Sooo….any clue as to whom made this eggbeater drill? The other two items were marked the same









Well, at least the chisel has a "1/4" stamped on the blade as well. $10 plus 7% sales tax…...not too bad a day?


----------



## stan3443

any thing look good, to be sold at auct






















































ion tomorrow


----------



## stan3443

more post drills than i have ever seen


----------



## theoldfart

That's like hawg heaven for post drills, I just got a shiver down my back. I have one,. took several years to find a good one at a reasonable price. Whack one(s) are you buying?


----------



## DLK

> That s like hawg heaven for post drills, I just got a shiver down my back. I have one,. took several years to find a good one at a reasonable price. *Which* one(s) are you buying?
> 
> - theoldfart


Get one of the ones designed for wood-working and not for metal work. Someone posted a picture of one earlier, but I cannot find it.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That is Post Drill Heaven right there…


----------



## DLK

> That is Post Drill Heaven right there…
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Heaven? Looks like a bone yard. How did there come to be so many in one place? Are they all the remains of some manufacturer?


----------



## stan3443

Strange auction , auctioner was to tired to have auction had to deal with owner on price . Was able to buy 4 post drills. Still has 30 plus compleat drills will sell in lots of 4. Boss says I have to sell theis 4 to afford the one I want pict to come


----------



## CFrye

Well, Stan? How many pallets did you get?
Edit: looking forward to pics!


----------



## stan3443

here are the 4 I got a champion blower , buffilow forge , acme, can't rember the last one


----------



## theoldfart

Wow, nice.
That second one looks a lot like my Canedy Otto 00


----------



## Slyy

Nice Stan! Anxious to see how they clean up!


----------



## stan3443

going to sell them to make some $ to go buy the one I want


----------



## DLK

Does anyone have extra sleeves for the Stanley 59 dowelling jig? How about the extra accessory sleeves?
Is this a good tool to have? Is it worth getting?


----------



## theoldfart

Don, I have the 60 and I think it's worth it. The 59 only had one set, the 60 and two.

The 60


----------



## CL810

I've used my 59 and found it easy and accurate. I don't know anything about the 60 Kevin, why two sets?


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, the second set of guides are the in-between sizes. I have to measure them to give a more concrete example. I'll post a pic or two with a better explanation tomorrow.

Edit: I got it all wrong. The 59 has five guides from 1/4 to 1/2" by 16'ths. The 60 has the five from the 59 and four more from 9/16 to 3/4" also by 16'ths.

Here's a link to Jon Zimmers site that has a PDF of the instructions.


----------



## DLK

According to the instructions I saw: the four more from 9/16 to 3/4" also by 16'ths. were available as accessories for the No. 59 as an additional purchase, but I don't seem to find them anywhere. I sure would like a 3/4" sleeve.


----------



## stan3443

Combo my wife just listed a 59 on the bay with 5 sleeves


----------



## DLK

> Combo my wife just listed a 59 on the bay with 5 sleeves
> 
> - stan3443


Maybe I just bought it. There are at least a dozen 59's on the bay for sale. I missed on 3 then went and got a BIN one. Turns out you can still buy new sleeves but because of S&H they are expensive. So…. I'm going to try to find them some how. I'm looking for 9/16, 5/8, 11/16, and particularly 3/4.* If anyone has them for sale please let me know.
*

Is there any reason why I could not just use a 3/4 I.D. straight bronze bushing?


----------



## theoldfart

Seems like it would work, worth trying.


----------



## DLK

Seems cheaper then $3.70 per sleeve plus $10.50 shipping. If they sold all of the four I'd am missing it would be worth it but only 2. For two it would be (2)($3.70)+($10.50)=$17.70. So $8.35 each, a little steep I think. I could afford it, but its the principle. I hate paying more in shipping then the item is actually worth.


----------



## Karamba

If you are into it there is one for grab on San Diego craigslist


----------



## theoldfart

^ looks to be in good shape. The fun part is finding 1/2" shank bits to fit!


----------



## DLK

Or install a Jacobs chuck on a straight 1/2 arbor. Still fun as you have to grind a flat on the arbor, and also lengthing the lower "pipe" and provide and additional middle support.


----------



## theoldfart

I've abandoned the Jacobs route. Slowly I've been accumulating bits to fit the original. Going to sharpen a couple of foresters today!


----------



## CFrye

Picked up a Stanley No 610 egg beater today. First time I've seen an enclosed gear like this. It's a little, stiff to crank. I figure it needs cleaned and oiled (I hope that's all). Also the first time I've seen the '100 PLUS'. Enlightenment is requested from the sage.


----------



## terryR

Very cool find, Candy!

So, is there a better post drill to search for? Or do most accept 1/2" shanks? How the heck do you assess completeness from a photo?


----------



## Tim457

That's really cool Candy. From cleaning similar enclosed things like hand crank grinders, there's really no short cut other than taking it apart and cleaning all the grime off with rags and probably a de-greaser and then greasing it up again with a good grease and reassembling. You can skip that and add more oil and that will help some but the grime that is in there will still be there gumming up the gears.



> So, is there a better post drill to search for? Or do most accept 1/2" shanks? How the heck do you assess completeness from a photo?
> - terryR


By posting the photo on LJ of course. It can be tough to figure out since many have ratcheting at the top. The better ones seem to be the Canedy-Otto and Champion blower and forge. I'm not really sure where the other brands fall on the quality scale. I'm sure it varied over time just like other tools.

Oh, here's a really good resource with what to look for and how to tell the better post drills:
http://www.beautifuliron.com/thepost.htm
Seems to be more about which model it was than the brands. Heavy vs light duty, features etc.


----------



## TheFridge

From 1/4" to 1" in 16ths plus a 1"to 1-1/2" adjustable. Only the 5/16" and the Adjustable bits have been opened. Sat in a fellas tool box for 20 years or more before deciding to sell them on Craigslist for 50$ (plus 13$ for my buddy to ship them to me)

I'm pretty happy.

Edit: almost all still have the shipping grease on them. I lucked out.


----------



## CFrye

Thanks, Terry and Tim! 
After reading parts of the link on post drills, I guess I'll just admire them from afar and not be *STUPID* and buy one. The author was very adamant! Kinda funny and sad at the same time.


----------



## CFrye

Very nice, Fridge!


----------



## stan3443

Tim thanks for the link . Candy that was the one thing I looked at real good on the four I bought nothing missing , broke , every thing moves and workes


----------



## theoldfart

Candy, don't listen to that guy. I took a chance and mine works quite well. AND post drills are cool!


----------



## CFrye

Post drills *are* cool, Kevin, no arguemet there! I am trying to focus on my miniature tool collecting, so if a salesman's sample (If there was such a thing) presented itself to me…


----------



## DanKrager

A miniature post drill? Now THAT would be cool! I don't know if you could earn man points for it, but I think you'd be the coolest woman around, present girlfriend excluded, of course!
DanK


----------



## CFrye

...of course!


----------



## CFrye

OK, I had to do a search for a mini post drill and found this video. My preference would be 1/4 scale, but I wouldn't turn down an offer of a 1/12 scale version 
;-)


----------



## DanKrager

Now THAT is just cool, Candy. Shut up and take my money!
DanK


----------



## racerglen

Candy, that is just too neat ! I'm with Dan..


----------



## DLK

You know Candy that micro-post-drill would fit in your medical bag.


----------



## terryR

We need to get Candy a small metal lathe!
'Sweet Tools' by Candy…


----------



## bandit571

Couple of "small" drills..










Goodell-Pratt No. 188A and a Millers Falls No. 188A









The G-P still had six drill points, the M-F had all 8. Since I'd need something the drive a few screws with….









Stanley Handyman "Yankee" No.133H. One MIGHT be a little older than the other. I guess I could start looking for a few other bits for those two. Both work very nicely…same with the drills.


----------



## CFrye

Terry, thems enabling words! 
Hubby wouldn't like that :-b

Nice, Bandit!


----------



## bandit571

Found this little guy hiding in amongst the Kitchen stuff at an Antique Store









1/4" Gimlet?









Might need to be sharpened? As soon as I figure out how…..

Didn't find a name on it, though.


----------



## WayneC

Poor quality eBay photos but look what I purchased on eBay. Brace is in the mail.


----------



## theoldfart

Ah, the mighty wimble. Great grab Wayne


----------



## WayneC

I've been looking for one for a long time. Now I just need to find a 6" for under $500.


----------



## racerglen

Congrats on the 12" er.. Good luck on the 6" Wayne, I've only ever seen one and it'd already been sold..We know they are out there..somewhere, and under $500..


----------



## WayneC

Thanks Glen. I'm not sure if this is actually a 12" or not. The seller did not realize it is a Whimble and not a normal brace. Should have it in my hands in a few days. Only seen one 6" for sale and I believe it was $450.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Congrats, Wayne!


----------



## ToddJB

What's it's intended purpose? Seems like it would be harder to use.


----------



## terryR

I think the design produces gobs of torque, more than standard. Have read they are wobbly and difficult to handle?


----------



## bandit571

Weren't those made to be used on the wooden underframes of railroad cars?


----------



## ToddJB

Terry, torque would make sense to me if the knob was centered over the chuck and the handle was super stretched out, like the standard 12 or 14" braces. But this knob is off center so pushing down on it would only put a weird side pressure on the bit, right?

Bandit, I dunno. What benefit did it add in that application?


----------



## DLK

But to properly use a brace you should not ever push down on the knob, so that would not be an issue. However I can see how the circular movements of both hands may take some practice to coordinate. You do need to keep the bit perpendicular to the work and perhaps thats what you allude to. There would certainly be more torque in this configuration, because you will be using both arms to turn the bit. Hence "twice" the force. (Not exactly because the two radii are different. Torque = radius x force as I recall.)


----------



## Tim457

Very nice Wayne. Awfully close to the full set now.


----------



## bandit571

Just have to remember, in those old, all wood boxcars, lot of times they had to crawl under them to fix the brce rods, add parts to the frames, and other repairs. Not a lot of room under there. so you'd either be sitting and looking up, or laying on your back. Or, if the rails for the doors needed a new bolt, you stood beside the car, or on a ladder.

"Car Repairman's Brace" is the term I was looking for….


----------



## terryR

Does a fancy depth stop add more mass and make this easier?
(I only have a sharpie mark for depth)


----------



## theoldfart

Nope


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Are you asking if you need to purchase another tool? YES!!!


----------



## DLK

So, Terry what are you doing? Making a stopped dado?


----------



## terryR

A big one, Don.
Good answer, Smitty!


----------



## DLK

Well, then are there not better and more fun ways?


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, I cheated. Went for forstners and tails!


----------



## Mosquito

I'm guessing it's the end caps for his workbench Don


----------



## TheFridge

Terry, I would've went for the dewalt about 24 holes ago.


----------



## terryR

Yeah, I tried my Makita after 10 holes, but it wouldn't drill one inch holes with a Forstner! 
So, I manned up! 

Had no idea those bits generate such heat.


----------



## DLK

Yes they generate heat must be run at a slower speed.

Get a Milwaukee 1" ship auger bit and a 1/2 " chuck drill. I use my hammer drill.

Or buy a spiral up bit for your router.

Or use a chisel, with out drilling all those holes.

Or a dado plane


----------



## theoldfart

Terry, I let the brace cool down every fourth hole.


----------



## donwilwol

you will need 2. One can be cooling off while the other is in use.

remember "With every tool obtained, there is another that is needed"


----------



## terryR

Think I got it now…
Bore 4 holes, switch braces, sip coffee, bore 4 holes…

Or pony up for a router!


----------



## Tim457

Terry I feel your pain.










I just bored 40 holes with a 1-1/8" auger bit and my Yankee 10" brace. Luckily it was fir, but still a heck of a workout. 26-1/2 turns for each then come in from the other side. I found it I switched arms after each one I could keep going. I will also say Woodowl auger bits are pretty sweet.


----------



## DLK

Terry, when I last had to do this (groove for deadman), I bought a Drill master 2hp fixed based router from HF ($53 less 20%) and a HSS 1/2" spiral up router bit from MLCS #7497 ($10.95). O.K. I got the router, before I saw the light and switched to manual hand tools.


----------



## theoldfart

Tim, been there done that. Mortising a criss cross takes a lotta holes.
Softwood not so bad









Cherry and maple killed my shoulder









Something like 85 + bores.


----------



## Tim457

Dang son, that's a lot of holes. What size bit? Auger bits do work really well though. I was able to bore the same depth as fast or faster than the drill press with a spade bit.

Reminds me I really need to get my beam boring machine fixed up. Anybody know a good source for replacement linear gears?


----------



## theoldfart

3/4" if I remember correctly.


----------



## DLK

I've been spending hours researching 14" sweep braces. (Thanks a lot Kevin.) Two questions:

How much would you pay for a 14" sweep brace?
Why do eBay sellers measure the length of the brace and not the sweep?


----------



## theoldfart

Don, I paid $35 for mine.

As to why sellers tell you the length is they have NO CLUE what the critical specs on a brace are. Giving the length of a brace is about the same usefulness as giving the length of a mitre box as far as I'm concerned.

Most vendors are not aware of the difference between sweep and throw on a brace. The words they know are vintage, antique, rare and "my grandfather"

Rant over, carry on!


----------



## DLK

Thanks Kevin, I've never paid more then $4 for a brace and usually only $2, so sticker shock. But then biggest I found in the wild was a 12" sweep Pexto.

With you on the rant. Found it best to go by model number, then by what the vendors say.


----------



## theoldfart

^ pretty much Don.


----------



## esmthin

Here are a couple of antique store finds. The brace and bits were $15. The sizes are 3/4, 15/16, 1 1/4, and 1 1/2. I'm really happy with this find because of the price and the condition it's in, no rust, just patina. The other find was a Stanley No. 32 1/2 folding rule. I payed a little bit of a premium for this one at $18, but I'm fine with that because I wanted one so badly. The rule folds out to 12" with little calipers that slide out of the end. I'm also happy with the quality of this one because the brass and wood are pretty clean and the joints are still tight.


----------



## esmthin

Sorry about the picture rotation.


----------



## DLK

This vintage drill bit holder caught my eye:


----------



## TheFridge

Ha


----------



## racerglen

At that price I've got a fortune lurking somewhere nearby ;-)


----------



## DLK

Been pulling my hair out looking at pictures of braces trying to find a good one with a 14" sweep. Apparently many eBay vendors are idiots and measure the length of the brace and not the sweep. Doesn't a Pexto 8014 have a 14 inch sweep, if so why does the vendor say its 12"? What did they measure? End of rant.

Two questions:

What are the good 14" sweep braces?
Where can I buy one?


----------



## theoldfart

This is a WayneC question. Best one I know of is a Yankee.


----------



## WayneC

Millers Falls Holdall Brace (730), Master Brace (830), or Lion (870)
Pexto Sampson (8014)
Yankee 2100-14 or 2101-14

I did see a 14" Millers falls barber chuck brace on eBay if your looking to get something done.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Millers-Falls-No-30-Bit-Brace-14-Sweep-Ratchet-Action-Drill-USA-/252190699687?hash=item3ab7bcb0a7:g:BtQAAOSw7FRWWtw9

This one is miss listed 8014 is a 14" sweep brace

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Pexto-Samson-No-8014D-12-inch-Brace-Drill-/161902434198?hash=item25b2231796:g:6iIAAOSw7FRWW8Ma

14" Yankee - spendy as Kevin said

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stanley-Yankee-Bell-System-2101A-14-Brace-Drill-Excellent-Condition-Rare-tool-/252168250359?hash=item3ab66623f7:g:gIgAAOSwIwhWRMEm


----------



## WayneC

I own all above but the Barber and Master in 14"


----------



## DLK

Thats a nice looking 14" Yankee, but spendy indeed. I'm watching the other two.

How is the Miller Falls No. 30?

Thought it over and I guess I 'm not really so desperate. I think I'll keep looking for something nice at a good deal, rather then just jumping again into the eBay frenzy. I can get buy with my Pexto 5312 or MF Buck Rodgers or my 8" Stanley SW or a dozen or so common braces I have. Braces just seem to reproduce when your not looking. Unfortunately you don't get many pedigree studs that way.


----------



## WayneC

The 30 is good. Just more of a common brace. The others have more beefy chucks.


----------



## DLK

Thanks *WayneC*. I'm going to look for a MF 870, maybe I'll get lucky while I'm in Florida.


----------



## Fisho

Just picked up this pair of braces today. One is a miller's falls 1662 in really great shape. Looks barely used. The other is an Ahrem's good line.Anyone have any background on these? Thanks.


----------



## DLK

Miller falls is easy check oldtoolheaven.


----------



## CFrye

I've been trying, off and on, all day yesterday, to look through these pages for some kind of a chuck/jaw guide. I think some of my braces have non-original chucks and was trying to identify them, or at least the different styles. I've made it to page 7(of 33). Keep getting side tracked by links. Bertha's posting of Paul Hamler's miniature tools really derailed the search. LOL That posting was from 2011. 


















On another threadI found this









Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## DLK

Candy, there is some info on the chucks used by miller falls and I presume others interwoven in the http://oldtoolheaven.com/ pages.


----------



## CFrye

Thanks, Don. I was hoping for a side by side detail/comparison kinda thing, if that makes any sense. 
Guess I'll have to start digging.


----------



## terryR

Candy, if you find a good comparison, please post the link…I have lots to learn!

Every time you post photos of beautiful miniature tools it makes me want to try one.


----------



## summerfi

I was rummaging around in my drill press drawer today and suddenly wondered why I've been hanging onto this stuff. I think the reason is it was in with my grandfather's tools. Being odds and ends though, it doesn't really have sentimental value to me and should probably go to someone who might use it. If you see anything that interests you, drop me a PM with an offer, including trades. I don't expect anything here is worth a whole lot.

Left to right:
5/16 post drill bit marked W&B in a diamond and USA.
5/32 bit marked Wards Master.
bit for drilling screw holes, no visible markings.
countersink bit marked By Jas. Swan Co., _mour, Conn. USA
countersink bit, no visible markings
countersink bit marked E. W. Deuse Co.
flat screwdriver bit marked Millers Falls Co., Made in USA, No. ?, also marked 4 on the square part.
flat screwdriver bit marked Millers Falls Co., Made in USA, No. ?, also marked 6 on the square part.
flat screwdriver bit marked Stanley, Made in USA.


----------



## wormil

Can anyone school me on push drills? I've never touched one that I can remember. Do they require special drill bits? I've been thinking of buying one. Anything to look out for, or beware of?


----------



## bandit571

Millers Falls 188A









And the drill bit is called a drill point. Basically, two straight flutes along the shaft.

You push the drill down, allow it to spring back up. Repeat as fast as you can go.

As for the bits/points..









These are for a "Eggbeater" typr of drill. The only difference is the end the goes into the chucks, Eggbeater has a smooth shaft, the push drill has a fluted shaft to fit in the chuck better.

Lot of push drills will have a drill "index" in the handle, and may have up to 8 bits inside.

Just mmake sure they operate when you push the rear of the drill down towards the chuck, it should rotate back and forth as the handle pushes down. Make sure the chcuk is all there, and tightens down.


----------



## DLK

I had the pleasure of boring 1" holes last night using an RJ among the set of 13 I bought from Kevin and the MF 1950 Buck Roger brace with barber chuck that I picked up for $1 this summer. (After 1950 certainly by 1952 they change the chuck.) *Two observations*: it seemed to be much easier to drill 1" holes, then 3/4" holes. I am not sure why, but perhaps in this box of drill bits the No. 16 was used less then the No 12 and hence sharper or is it that the screw is bigger and has more pull. Also, the knob on this brace articulates on a dished washer, I find that this helps keep the boring straight. What is this type of knob called? Is there information on knob types?


----------



## CFrye

Where can I get driver bits small enough to fit in an egg beater drill? I think I read that use for them, didn't I?


----------



## ToddJB

Hole making holder holding hole makers










Still need to get some hooks to hang the 8"er


----------



## CFrye

Nice Todd! Is that one of those multi hinge bit holder box? Or a set of drawers you made?


----------



## ToddJB

Thanks Candy, it's a Russell Jennings box. I didn't not make it. Though it's hanging on by a thread so I might need to reconstruct it soon.


----------



## CL810

Todd that looks perfect!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Any suggestions as to pedigree of this one? Handle is leather, a very old retrofit.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

Todd…so cool and funky…love it

Eric


----------



## Slyy

Interesting Brace Smitty. Vertical marks on the Chuck and looks like a couple pieces made of brass? No clue but certainly interested to know if you find out.


----------



## kwigly

Smitty,
neat old brace. A picture of the ratchet selector might help, but it looks a bit like a Peck Stow Wilcox (PSW) brace. 
see http://www.sydnassloot.com/Brace/PSW.htm
[the sydnassloot.com site is great for identifying braces]
If you clean it up you might be able to find some identifying names/patent dates stamped on the chuck, or on the side of the brace arm rod


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Kwigly, Yes!

"...pin selectors to alter the ratchet setting… two selector pins protruding from the top of the ratchet housing. Each of these moves the ratchet dog to engage or disengage the ratchet gear."

That's the ratchet type, and "a chuck shell that is not knurled, but has longitudinal grooves on its outer surface" also. Maybe I'll see if Sandy wants it?


----------



## CB_Cohick

I think I have answered my own question by trial and error, but it is worth polling the panel. I have a couple of old flea market braces I have been playing around with, a 10" Miller Falls No. 122 and a 10" Stanley No. 945. I was using a 1" bit with a hex shaped shank trying to bore a hole through some 3/4" oak. I was having trouble with the bit slipping in the chuck, and ended up breaking the jaws inside the chuck on both braces. Here's the question, is the proper bit for this style of brace one with the trapezoidal shaped shank? I can see that it would fit the jaws of the chuck better when tightened up. A secondary question, what type of brace would use the more readily available bits with the hex shaped shank? Thanks in advance for your knowledge.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Yeah, "brace bits" are the trapezoidal ones are what you're looking for. As to which braces might be used with a common hex? Dunno, but the beauty of brace bits is that they cut very cleanly and the snail, the little screw tip, does quite a bit of pulling, too, so you don't have to push/lean in quite so much.

I guess, if you really wanted to, you could get the Lee Valley brace/hex adapter (item C in the following link), but I think that that's been made more with screwdriver bits in mind… http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=32300&cat=1,180,42337&ap=1


----------



## CB_Cohick

That adapter is kind of neat. Thanks for the link, Bill. I don't know if it would hold an auger bit very well, but I can see the utility of using it with all the screwdriver bits I have around the shop.
Edit: Also, it looks like from the description of their three jaw chuck that it is designed to work with hex shank auger bits.


----------



## DLK

Those adaptors are indeed neat. Thanks for providing the link. They are now on my wish list.


----------



## shampeon

All my Millers Falls Lion-head braces hold hex bits just fine. FWIW.


----------



## Tim457

What kind of bit are you trying to use Chris? Something like a modern Irwin speedbore or something else?

I use hex shank bits a lot in my braces and they fit just fine. Any of the better chuck jaws have a V slot down the middle that can hold a hex bit. I've never had a problem with slipping with any chuck that has those grooves in the jaws. Can you take pictures of your chucks? And I have multiple extra braces if you need one now.

For screwdriver bits I just put a hex shank bit adapter in the chuck.


----------



## WillliamMSP

I'm thinking that a good part of the problem may be the big 1" bit in oak, which probably needs quite a bit o' torque.


----------



## shampeon

Yeah, a 12" brace is significantly better for boring large holes. But the jaws slipping and breaking are no bueno.

Here I'm boring through 12/4 red oak with a 12" brace and an Irwin Speedbor hex-shaft bit.


----------



## CB_Cohick

Here is the scene with all the clues. The bit is just an Irwin auger bit from the local hardware store. I have taken the broken jaws out for viewing pleasure. You can see the V slot that should have held. I was able to find some replacement jaws on e-bay, and they are on the way. The piece of oak I was working on shows a sucessful hole, and the incomplete one where things went awry. Thanks for the offer of a loaner, Tim. I can go back to killing electrons to finish this up until my new jaws arrive. I agree a 12" brace would work better for a one inch hole. I am watching a couple on the bay currently.


----------



## CB_Cohick

Now that I am thinking about it, I wonder if I was inserting the auger bit too deeply into the chuck so that the meaty part of those jaws wasn't able to get enough purchase to hold securely.


----------



## Brit

Maybe this will help Chris.


----------



## DLK

Good video.


----------



## CB_Cohick

Thanks, Andy. That was a good video. Although it uses a bit with the tapered end, I think it does lend some support to the idea that what I was doing incorrectly is inserting the bit too deeply into the chuck so that the jaws were not able to close around the shank properly.


----------



## CB_Cohick

On a different topic, is there a way to re-cut the screw threads on the tips of auger bits without investing too much? The reason I ask is that I see a lot of bits for a buck a piece at the flea market. Other than sharpening the cutting edge, which I have a file for, the other problem with those used bits is the screw tip, which can be broken or worn down to where it doesn't pull the bit into the work.


----------



## CFrye

> On a different topic, is there a way to re-cut the screw threads on the tips of auger bits without investing too much? The reason I ask is that I see a lot of bits for a buck a piece at the flea market. Other than sharpening the cutting edge, which I have a file for, the other problem with those used bits is the screw tip, which can be broken or worn down to where it doesn t pull the bit into the work.
> 
> - CB_Cohick


Definately interested in the answer to that question!


----------



## shampeon

A dull screw can be sharpened with some needle files and patience, but a broken one is pretty much toast.


----------



## DLK

I recall that I read somewhere here that they can be sharpened by drilling the worn screw into say soft wood (or maybe a good screw into hardwood), filling the hole with honing compound and then running the warn screw in and out of the compound filled hole a few times. I have not tried it. But shampeon is correct see for example this link.


----------



## DanKrager

I have restored damaged and dull threads on wood auger bits. As Shampeon says, it takes a lot of patience and in my case magnification. Early attempts may not be pretty but it is effective if done well. I used tiny files.

DanK


----------



## Tim457

> On a different topic, is there a way to re-cut the screw threads on the tips of auger bits without investing too much? The reason I ask is that I see a lot of bits for a buck a piece at the flea market. Other than sharpening the cutting edge, which I have a file for, the other problem with those used bits is the screw tip, which can be broken or worn down to where it doesn t pull the bit into the work.
> 
> - CB_Cohick


I've improved them too, but it's really hard to do well. Threads are 60 so a taper saw file works, but it's really hard to keep it at the right angle all the while rotating. Also very hard to get into all the threads without also hitting the cutting spurts. I basically concluded that even if I practiced a lot it just wasn't worth it. The amount of time required is worth way way more than a new bit can be bought for. I also thought of trying a thread repair file, but unless I ground one side down (ruining that side of the file) it wouldn't fit in between the spurs and the threads. I'd really love to know how they are cut originally and get ahold of some of the tooling.

Don that trick works well to polish already good threads so that they don't gum up with wood in the threads and loose their grip. It doesn't fix any damaged threads.


----------



## DLK

Thanks, Tim. As I wrote it I was sure it could not fix damaged threads, but I could not remember what was said.


----------



## CFrye

Probably not worth the time and effort…is it possible to remove the damaged lead screw and replace it? I imagine that would entail annealing and rehardening. Just think out loud…


----------



## wormil

Auger bits aren't expensive enough for me to bother fixing the screw, I'd toss into the recycle bucket and buy another one.


----------



## CB_Cohick

> Auger bits aren t expensive enough for me to bother fixing the screw, I d toss into the recycle bucket and buy another one.
> 
> - Rick M.


That is my conclusion as well, especially if my initial investment is only $1.


----------



## CFrye

OK, *NOT* worth the time/effort. Has anyone done it, just because, to see if they could? LOL


----------



## wormil

Best bet might be to grind off the screw and weld on a new one made from a wood screw.


----------



## Tim457

I have a 2" auger bit for my beam boring machine where the lead screw is broken off. If I hadn't found another auger bit in better shape I might have considered seeing if silver soldering a new lead screw on would be strong enough. I don't know where to find a tapered screw of the right size. Why do they taper out so wide by the way? Seems like tapering to a certain point and then being straight like a regular wood screw would work as well. Does it help prevent stripping out?


----------



## bandit571

Maybe not soldered ( or welded, brazed) but think in terms of drill a hole into the end, tapping some threads into the hole. Thread a new screw's shank to match, and with a bit of Locktite, add a new screw?

You'd have to cut off the head of the new screw, thread the shank, then modify the screw to better fit the bit's size. Threading the new one in will be the tricky part.


----------



## DLK

I bet the wide taper prevents the screw tip from shearing off under the torque required to turn the bit once it engages the wood.


----------



## bandit571

Traded a few things today…..came home with these two..









Need to set up for some better pictures, but I have just gotten back home with these two..









Drill's crank has been stamped as a Millers Falls No. 2-01. Screwdriver was a Western Auto H 1443 (Stanley??)

So far, a bit of oil to get things moving better, a little wire brushing to look for a name. Traded a pair of "extra" wood bodied planes, mainly for the drill, the screwdriver cost a buck…

Need to finish the clean up….then maybe some better pictures.


----------



## bandit571

Better photos….









And a better look at the gears..









Thinking the plastic knob is original…...drill was made after 1968…


----------



## summerfi

The old timers would never think of throwing something like a broken auger bit away. They are good steel, and good steel was hard to come by, especially if you had little money. A broken tool would eventually be fashioned into another type of tool, or a part for a tool, machine or other device. Hacksaws and files were the tools of choice for repurposing metal. Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.


----------



## bandit571

Have since gotten rid of that Phillips headed bolt, there is now a slotted one. Threads were 1/4" x 20, new bolt cost a whopping $0.49…..for one bolt. Even then, it was a hair too long. Finally got it loosen up enough to be able to crank the gear as fast as I can, and it still runs quietly…..a little 3in1 oil goes a long way.

Haven't taken the chuck apart yet…..haven't seen a need to. Jaws had been blued. might be a decent drill, after all.


----------



## DLK

So …. I have this broken auger Bob, what can I make with it!


----------



## Jarrett

I'm a little late to the party, and have posted my find on this site before, but not on here.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Cool!


----------



## summerfi

> So …. I have this broken auger Bob, what can I make with it!
> 
> - Combo Prof


About 1001 things Don. My grandpappy used to make parts for rifles out of them and other broken tools.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

BORING! but in a good way

Eric


----------



## theoldfart

Finally found almost a full set of bits for my post drill. Russell Jennings dowel machine bits. Missing the 16 and 9 and the 4 has a smaller shank so not usable.

























Some of the tips have been modified but I don't see this as an issue since the drill has automatic advance.


----------



## donwilwol

Wow OF. That's a rare sight!


----------



## theoldfart

Don, so you haven't run across these in your travels?


----------



## donwilwol

> Don, so you haven t run across these in your travels?
> 
> - theoldfart


No

And I have 2 post drills, so I'd notice.


----------



## DLK

Very nice score Kevin. When you find a second set p.m. me


----------



## donwilwol

> Very nice score Kevin. When you find a second set p.m. me
> 
> - Combo Prof


was that not impied with the "And I have 2 post drills, so I'd notice" remark ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Noted, will do.


----------



## theoldfart

Post drill in action









Made a guide for drilling my dog holes


----------



## Tim457

Very cool putting that to use. And a cool bit too, don't see 3/4" twist bits in every shop.

General question though. It seems to be very common to put a lot of effort into boring dog holes perfectly plumb, but why? I can't think of anything in their use that would matter if it was 1 degree off.


----------



## theoldfart

Tim, they are not plumb. And it's a 1" bit!


----------



## realcowtown_eric

My name is Eric and I'm a user…...of drill bits.

and there are ever so many kinds

That I have puzzled over the years over the best way to store them…....

There are many metal drill bit storage cabinets, perhaps the best know in Huot, but they typically only go up to 1/2" and my twist drills go well beyond that.

Imperial/metric/twist/forstner of a few dirrerent types/left and right handed/orifice/i6 or 8 different Irwins/RJ/bates/gedge/long/short/dowel/spur/number/letter/spoon/spade/taper/concrete/tang/Morse taper? etc etc.

And then you got your spares, and of course the dull bits waiting til you get around to sharpening.

Bottom line is that is a whole whack of different style of drill bits , which

(and I know it's too late to make a long story short)

Leads me to the big question…....How do you store your drill bits…...."extra drill bits. dull drill bitsetc etc"

All my research on the interweb typically shows but the single drawer "drill press storage" kinda thing, and as well youi may imagine, I'm way far l beyond that

any ideas???

My current storage is some surplus plastic pathology sample drawers, about 4' of em (2'side by side) in the shop for twist drills, another 1o' of em in the "oldtools" shop in the house for the Irwin types and variations of bitstock tools, 3' wide drawers for the long augers.

Like I said, I'm a user, and I got a problem that I'm dealing with, but perhaps there is a better way to deal with it, so I'm just asking eh?

Eric in Calgary


----------



## theoldfart

Two of my four RJ sets have they're own boxes. One set is in a cavas role and another is in a stand by my post drill. Me extra(18") long set of brace bits is also in a canvas role. The RJ dowel bits are in a box. The rest of the special brace bits are in a pair of cigar boxes.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

Thanks for that reply …RJ boxes are sweet. I almost got beat up by my other tool collecting buddies at an estate sale where I was second in line, danced in and scooped the three tier set, pristine.

That set ain't goin into any bulk storage to be sure.it was never one of my problem to solve . If yu have that you gotta have others…..so fess up….hoe do your store them I keen on seeing the good bad and the ugly these are the path drawers of which I spoke…...

If you/ve got two RJ sets in boxes, you got other boring tools…..You show me yours, I'll show yu mine,,,,wait, I already have, but there is more…...










Some of them anyway


----------



## DLK

Would these work to sharpen auger bits.


----------



## bandit571

Mutt & Jeff?









Biggie one is a Millers Falls No.730 14IN

The "Mutt" merely has a 3410 stamped onto it…..10" sweep.

These to came home from the Magnolia Jamboree and the rust hunts along the way

Largest brace the shop has had before this? Pexto 12" with a Samson chuck. The new 14 is too big for the till….may have to find a place to hang it up…


----------



## DLK

I've been looking for a MF 14" 770 lion brace, but I have to admit I'm a little jealous of your hold all brace.


----------



## Brit

Not really Don. A proper auger file has two ends. On one end the front and back faces of the file have teeth but the edges do not and on the other end, the edges have teeth but the front and back faces do not. You use the teeth on the edges either to work on just a specific area of the cutting edge or to sharpen the smaller diameter auger bits where access to the cutting edge is an issue.

It looks like those diamond files are not coated with abrasive so you would be limited as to what you could do with them.

Some time ago, I wrote a blog about sharpening auger bits. Here's the link: http://lumberjocks.com/Brit/blog/25755


----------



## DLK

I did find an auger file last year at an estate sale and use that. Kevin mentioned in another thread using a norton auger stone. I went look for them and then thought I wonder if a small thin diamond plater would work. I have some that I use a la the Paul Sellers method for sharpening spoke shaves and they work great. So I thought maybe they would be an option for auger bits given that *good* auger files seem difficult to find (cheaply) and was just curious.
Maybe I just have to pony up and buy the $15 files from lee-valley.
(I have not found a source for auger stones.)


----------



## Brit

IMO - It pays in the end to buy a new auger file from Lee Valley. That file will not only cut well, but last you the rest of your life too.


----------



## DLK

Ha. We are typing at the same time. I will be in Winnipeg then end of next week and will bring my shopping list to lee valley.


----------



## CFrye

Did you load up at Lee Valley, Don K?
Picked up a new-to-me brace today. Hoping you all can help with some info on it. It is marked both 'Made in Germany' and 'DRGM GERMANY'. Different kind of ratcheting mech. I've found that the DRGM mark dates anywhere between 1891-1952. 




































Thanks in advance.


----------



## DLK

Candy…. first I must say thank goodness there is no Lee Valley where I live.. for otherwise I would be broke.
It was quite amazing. Hard not to drool all over their displays.

Turns out unless you find it on the store bargain table you are no better off buying in the store then on-line.
I did pick up 3 tubes of autosol for ~ $10.50 USD (including takes and exchange) that were on sale. 
On-line they are $15.50. I also got the last remaining auger file in Canada according to the sales clerk.

The two clerks I talked to both used hand tools and were very knowledgeable about the tools and the workings of Lee Valley. They confirmed my conclusion about in-store versus on-line.

Shopping at Lee Valley is an interesting experience. You take a number and when called you are assigned it seems a personal shopper that hunts down in the store whatever you remotely are interested in. And even though you say you just want to look at something it ends up "in your basket" and on you sales receipt. So at check out you have to say
"no I did not want to buy it". Consequently, I had to decline to buy some things, because it was way to much money for me to be spending and I could wait for when I had more money saved up for tools.

(Bored in the hotel room I had already purchased some lathe accessories from PSI, so I have spent my tool fund for the month now. On the other hand thats why I will be teaching a summer class this year. :-] )

The other shocker is that Winnipeg has 13% tax, so this alone makes it better to buy online and then just declare you did so at tax time so that you pay your required state tax on online out of state purchases instead of Canadian PST and GST. (At least when they have free shipping.)


----------



## bandit571

DRGM was a German tool maker about WWII era…..1933-1945. Not sure IF they were around before WWI or were rebuilt after being bombed out, after WWII.


----------



## bandit571

Now, there is this smaller brace from the Jamboree..









The large one is a Millers Falls 14" Holdall, but the "Mutt" only has a #3410 marked on it. No other markings.

Soo, who made a #3410 brace?


----------



## CFrye

Interesting, Bandit. Can you tell me where to find more info? What I found indicated this was an abbreviation for a type of 'poor man's patent' or copyright. http://www.toledo-bend.com/VCL/info_2/drgm.html


----------



## bandit571

DRGM… Deutsches Reichs Gebrauch Muster.


----------



## bandit571

Well…DOH…..I thought that number sounded firmiliar…...The little brace is a PS & W #3410, made after 1920, when Pexto switched over to the Improved Barber chucks…migh be a keeper???


----------



## wormil

Found this North Bros #41 push drill today in a local shop, $4. Next to a wood handled Mac screwdriver for another $1. The Yankee drill came with 5 bits.


----------



## Ajs73

Picked these up the other day. Haven't had time to really even look them over yet.


----------



## bandit571

Picked two drills lately..









A bucket full of goodies for $2 included a Yankee No.41, with 6 drill points inside…









And that small eggbeater drill, with a NO.5 on the crank handle..









Missing the cap









And the side handle? Chuck has three jaws….and a set screw?









Not sure IF it is a Millers Falls…..got it at 1/2 price @ $5 Everything works fine on it, though. Just a bit of clean up.


----------



## ToddJB

A Jefferson/Tubman got me a complete NOS set of Irwins.

Pretty pumped.


----------



## CL810

I guess so! $22? You suck!


----------



## ToddJB

Ha. Jackson/Tubman. $20


----------



## wormil

You definitely suck. Nice score.


----------



## TheFridge

My babies. 50$ I think? Off CL.


----------



## bandit571

Ok, yard sales produced two drills for me to cart home….









Millers Falls No. 120 breast drill…..couldn't talk the gal down from $20…
And, for about $8 or so









Buffalo Forge No. 50. Missing a few parts, may be a "Parts" drill on feebay later. Flywheel and shaft MIA, and half of the prawl. Chuck seems to be in good shape, looks like a Holdall style chuck









Might just clean the BIG guy up…..


----------



## bandit571

Have the M-F 120 all cleaned up, awaiting the red paint to cure out. Need some black for other part of it.

Haven't even started on the post drill…yet…not sure how much I want to do to it…


----------



## Tim457

Wait, the post drill has a holdall style chuck? Lets see a picture of that. Good find for $8 I think, but I think you're right it would be better to sell off as parts than try to complete it.


----------



## bandit571

Post drill, chuck details…









Might try to at least clean this up a bit..









Almost too much "Patina"?


----------



## macgee

I would appreciate some help identifying a auger that came with a large collection of (60-70) vintage Russell Jennings (pre-Stan.) and Irwins.

The stamped name appears to be " *Conn Val HD-Ware Co* " also stamped " Pat. Mar. 16, 1870 ". It's hard to tell in the photo's but appears to be really well made and heavier than the other bits in the same size. I can not find any information on it and appreciate any help.

EDIT: Fellow member kindly HerbC steered me this thread and was able to tell me that the name may be Connecticut Valley Hardware.

Does anyone know more about these particular augers and how they compare to say vintage Russell Jennings?

Thank you


----------



## bandit571

Was a busy weekend, three days of yard sales….









A few bits….long one is an 11/16" the other are all 16/16" 









$3 eggbeater….have only cleaned up to find a name..needs a full clean up









Two of these were in a tool box full of tools, the two 10" ones. The little 8" sweep was a different day. 
Three very different chucks









The non-ratcheting one is a Millers Falls No.22 The other two? Still trying to ID them.


----------



## donwilwol

there is more coming, but this series may interest some of you drill guys.

http://www.timetestedtools.net/category/rhyolith-corner/


----------



## bandit571

DonW: I tried that site…..nothing came up..

Tent sale today:









Sizes range from #4 to #18. $1 each. 1/2" chisel was a T H Witherby @ $5 counting the handle. 
There are two #14 s in there, and a pair of #10s. Not too bad a morning?

PS: I left four times that amount of bits behind…...including a pair of leather rolls, and a $25, 6" sweep brace…..
Fellow will be set up all weekend….and will also be at West Liberty,OH Tractor Fest come Labour Day Weekend.


----------



## bandit571

Well, the eggbeater is finally cleaned up..









Oiled up in all the moving parts. Single gear drive









Marked as a Granlt Tool Comp. New York Germany?

Kind of a small one, compared to the more modern Millers Falls No. 2-01









Might do the job…


----------



## bandit571

Ok, keep in mind that the Millers Falls No. 2-01 is a large drill…just cleaned up a larger Millers Falls drill









A Millers Falls No. 120. Has two speed settings, but you have to change where the drive gear goes..









You push that small button to release the shaft, and slide it over to the other hole. 









There is also a spot on the shaft, to where you can rotate the breastplate 90 degrees. Depending on what you are bracing against it.

Might be worth the $20 I gave for it?


----------



## DLK

Did you make a new handle?


----------



## bandit571

That is what came with the drill. Haven't decided on whether to make a new one…


----------



## bigblockyeti

Bandit, Wranglerstar did a restore on a Stanley Sweetheart 741 that looks very similar to your Miller Falls. 



 He did almost as good a job as you!


----------



## DLK

I made one once for a Miller Falls using a hardware store carriage bolt. MF as you know conveniently uses standard threading. I should do it again now that I have a working lathe.


----------



## bandit571

I might just use the 1" x 30" belt sander and reshape the side handle to match the crank's handle. Handle on the crank is loose, need to tighten it up a might. That is one heavy drill…..you could get worn out, just carrying the dang thing around…

Metal part of the crank has the Millers Falls triangle logo stamped on it. I also re-did the black paint on it, but left it bare. Easier to read the logo, that way.


----------



## bandit571

Reshaped handle:









I am not buying a new can of walnut stain, though. As for the rest of the drills…









The one out in front is a Granit Tool Comp. drill…made by?
I seem to think I also have a #5 in the house…









That I may clean up, and re-paint the red…


----------



## DLK

Handle looks good. Much much beyter then before.


----------



## bandit571

Have a place to stash all the drills, now…









Sooo, it is now filled up…almost..









They even miss the top of my bald head….


----------



## bandit571

One of the braces is a Millers Falls No. 22, the other is a 14" holdall brace….
There are 4 eggbeaters hanging there, and the Millers Falls No.120.

The two larger drills are hanging with the chucks down. 
Another view?









The yellow cord is a drop, to power what few power tools there are. 









Should do for now, as I think I might have enough drills…now


----------



## realcowtown_eric

man, you gotta get the smole detector plugged back in…..

Eric


----------



## bandit571

Old system, already have a new system in place


----------



## bandit571

Just uncovered this "treasure" while putting away some of the last few weeks finds…









Opened up to reveal..









5 bits in need of a good cleaning. "HIKRAFT TOOL CO." Of Greenfield, Ohio. 









Sizes were in fractionals: 1/4", 3/8", 1/2",5/8" and 3/4" diameter. Might be irwin made?


----------



## bandit571

Latest eggbeater find..









Listed as $20 for the drill….got it at 1/2 price. Got it home to find out why it cost so much..









Top of the handle has a metal "Smiley Face", you rotate a tab, and a hole opens up. And out all these drill bits came. Crank merely has a "Made in USA" stamped on it..









Needs a bit of clean up, not much though.


----------



## YusukeKomiya

Got this for $3 at a swap meet. I didn't know much about rachet screwdrivers but the moment I saw it was made by North Bros. I knew I had to buy it. I also have a Yankee 2101A I got for $5 a week ago which I'm doing polishing up right now with sandpaper (it's hard without a vise). I will post pics later for that one.


----------



## bandit571

Be careful when you release that knurled ring, right under the chuck…...there is a spring inside that will pop the end out. Hold the wood handle part towards you, with the rest pointing away. Twist the ring to your right a bit, and…..SPROING! Your screwdriver just got twice as long. 









They will get you….


----------



## CampD

Scored some Irwin vintage Auger bits and I'm listing them for sale if anyones interested 
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/175810


----------



## theoldfart

Not exactly a drill but certainly bits o' my dreams. Ford auger bit Company, Holyoke Mass.

















Single lip design








Chest in good shape








illegible label









I've been chasing a set of these for a few years and learned an expensive lesson in patience in the process. Got them on a BIN and totally missed another set at half the price. Rats!

Millers Falls bought them out around 1916 to get into the bit bidness. Randy Roeders MF site has some good information


----------



## Brit

Wow! That's a wonderful set Kev. They look to be in great condition too.


----------



## Tim457

Those are in great shape. Hadn't heard of them before, but that's pretty cool, Kevin.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Let me start by saying I've not searched myself, but has anyone run across a youtuber showing a purported 'right way' to use a push drill? And I'm talking about bigger ones like Yusuke and Bandit presented above.

Those things were everywhere for decades, but they've not been talked about much in the hand tool resurgence. Just curious if the crowd of this thread had any insight.


----------



## wormil

My dad had one, I have one, but I've never thought about a right or wrong way to use them. I just push down. You have to mind your pressure obviously or you'll break a bit as with any drill.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

And I don't mean to be overthinking this. But there has to be source of old-tyme, common sense tips for using these things that make them more approachable. I've used lesser push drill / drivers on thin stock (Fuller brand) and I essentially pushed the bit through, splitting the wood vs. drilling it. Maybe it shouldn't be used on stock less than 1/2", but I don't know. Then there's the amount of pressure to apply; perhaps there's a trick to starting holes that everyone used to know?

Then there's attempting to drive screws with them. Push hard, screw doesn't move, driver slides and the work is scarred up bad…


----------



## bandit571

Norm Abram DID use one like the BIG Yankee I have. One hand does to the pushing at the bright red handle. The non-pushing hand has it's own spot to sit at. The knurled part of the shaft down at the bit's end. Holds the tip right where it is supposed to be.


----------



## donwilwol

> Let me start by saying I ve not searched myself, but has anyone run across a youtuber showing a purported right way to use a push drill? And I m talking about bigger ones like Yusuke and Bandit presented above.
> 
> Those things were everywhere for decades, but they ve not been talked about much in the hand tool resurgence. Just curious if the crowd of this thread had any insight.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


About page 22

http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/02/17/stanleys-1950-tool-guide/


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Thanks Don, hadn't seen that page before. It presents what you'd expect: insert bit, push.

And yeah, push the red handle… Thanks bandit. lawl.

What you guys are saying is, "don't overthink this, there is no 'doing it wrong.' just do it."


----------



## wormil

I don't have any driver bits for mine. Dad did and it was incredibly frustrating on slotted screws.



> http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/02/17/stanleys-1950-tool-guide/
> 
> - Don W


I would love to wallpaper my shop with those pages.


----------



## Boatman53

This is the right thread. Maybe we can all learn something from this clip. Be patient what I'm talking about is very near the end of the clip. Thanks for reminding me Smitty.






Enjoy.
Jim


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Elwood shows us the way!


----------



## DLK

> Then there s attempting to drive screws with them. Push hard, screw doesn t move, driver slides and the work is scarred up bad…
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Or my recent experience: " .... driver slides and goes through the window screen". At least I did not break the window!


----------



## theoldfart

Jim, that's the first thing I thought if when Smitty first posted! Righteous post buddy.


----------



## DanKrager

Until someone can point to good advice on Smitty's good question, I won't own one of those push drill screwdriver thingys. I've been very harsh with the ones I have used because I ruined a lot of good work with them. You couldn't pay me enough money to use one on a slotted screw now days, and I have same trouble with power drivers and slotted screws. I will only drive slotted screws by hand with one particular ratchet driver that's not made anymore. I like it because it has almost zero "backlash wasted motion", and is friendly to my weak wrists. Perhaps the newer screws with Roberson or star heads would work better. And yes, unless you put back pressure on the knurled guide ring, you will punch a hole, not drill it. 
And another thing. If you so much as stand in the same room with it, the black goo that always seems to envelop the spiral shaft will crawl over to make a new home somewhere on your person. It's worse than Neversieze. (Which reminds me to post…remind restorers to put some sort of neversieze on their reassembled threads.)
Did I mention that I really dislike push drill screw driver thingys?

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

So Dan, tell us how you really feel! I've had about the same luck, my late FIL had one and I never got it to stay in the slot. Dinged everything near it. Nope no spiral thingies in my chest.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ Post of the day right there, if it weren't for Jim's Blues Bros. clip…

EDIT: Dan's ratchet driver looks like this one, I'm guessing:


----------



## theoldfart

no chance of me competing with Elwood ever! got a cop motor, cop wheels,............


----------



## DanKrager

You got it Smitty! I have two and the mini.

DanK


----------



## DLK

Perhaps what to do is to make a thin plywood shield with a hole in it. Secure the shield in place over the screw to be removed or installed with double sided tape.


----------



## Boatman53

I use a Yankee driver quite often never had it do damage (at least not in recent memory) I have an adapter so I can see use hex bits. My driver for slotted screws, and I use a lot of them, is a 6" brace and bit. There were over 1000 screws in the Chittty car and every one of them 'clocked'.

What do you call the damage when one of those spiral drivers slips and does damage?

A Yankee Doodle.

Jim


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

What's the secret to error-free driver usage, Jim?
-Attention to detail
-Fully square alignment of driver to screwed
-Slow build up of force
?


----------



## Boatman53

As I said Smitty for slotted screws I use a brace and bit. Yes alignment is very important, and I use the ratchet feature on the brace because the vibration of the ratchet seems to reset the bit back to the bottom of the slot. I go round and round to start but once the screw starts to have some real resistance I ratchet.
The spiral driver in used with hex inserts so mostly Phillips, and square drives. If I have to go out to a boat on a mooring do do something that requires but a couple of holes I'll bring the Yankee and some hex shank drill bits. Makes for a more compact kit. And should a mishap befall the dingy ride I don't lose an expensive Festool drill overboard.
Jim


----------



## Brit

Jim - I watched the Blues Brothers a couple of days ago. Such a classic.

Although I have a Stanley Yankee driver, I rarely use it because I have two spiral ratchet drivers with hex drives.










If I am concerned about the bit camming out of the screw slot, I use it with a magnetic bit holder with a sliding sleeve that goes over the head of the screw.










The advantages of the slide are that it prevents your work from being marked and helps ensure the screw is started straight. It also helps with using the driver overhead because the screw is supported. The disadvantage is that it only accepts screws within a certain size range. Using diamond coated bits can also help prevent camming out too.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I used the MF spiral ratchet driver with hex drive again last night with no issue. It was at the bench (not in situ), alignment was good and slot matchup was watched closely. So far, so good. Maybe it's just a tool that needs a bit of practice to perform at it's best?


----------



## terryR

> What s the secret to error-free driver usage, Jim?
> -Attention to detail
> -Fully square alignment of driver to screwed
> -Slow build up of force
> ?
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Looks like the controlled application of determined force.
Or cool shades? LOL.


----------



## bandit571

Maybe picking the correct size for the work?
Some of us have to make their own bits









Just saying..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I think there's a great deal of merit to matching bit sizes to the situation, yes. The hex adapter is great for easily matching up with a strip of replaceable bits of every size, make and model (torx, square, phiillips, slotted, etc). No way am I getting into the 'make our own bits' business.

That smaller driver looks cool; those don't come around very often, I'm guessing.


----------



## bandit571

All were made from hex bits…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hey, that's great!


----------



## DLK

Thats a great idea Bandit. A head slapping why didn't I think of that moment.


----------



## bandit571

Just have to grind the end to match a Yankee's notches, and the correct OD on the shaft…...Oh, and round the hex part off helps.


----------



## wormil

I would just use a battery powered drill


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> You got it Smitty! I have two and the mini.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


DanK inspired an acquisition.










Headed for the toolchest.


----------



## DanKrager

You're welcome, Smitty. Just passing on the "ENABLEMENT". LOL.

Nice. I've never seen a kit like that. I did make a stem that holds short bits magnetically…the snap ring sorta sucks.

DanK


----------



## DLK

O.K. Dan K and Smitty … what am I looking at?


----------



## bandit571

Might look closely….couple of push DRILLS in there..









Along with a red handled Stanley screwdriver…...


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Sorry Bandit, those aren't the same.

Don, do the search-fu on "easy driver" and you'll be enable… er… enlightened!


----------



## bandit571

Had one like Smitty's…meh, threw it away…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Silly bandit.


----------



## DLK

> Sorry Bandit, those aren t the same.
> 
> Don, do the search-fu on "easy driver" and you ll be enable… er… enlightened!
> 
> 
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


O.K. took a bit but I did find it. Better to search on "easy driver screwdriver". I'll keep my eye out for the right one to buy.


----------



## bandit571

I did say DRILLS, didn't I? Not some handball toy?

One is a Millers Falls, the one behind it, is a Stanley.

Tried that handball toy,,,kept cracking my knuckles open. How does one drill with a ball. 









Came in handy, for pilot holes to install screws in….









This one came in handy to counter-sink a few more screws….Doubtful IF the handball could do that….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Ummm…. Okay.


----------



## theoldfart

Sure …. Um. Ok. Got it…. Whatever


----------



## bandit571

Vintage drills..right?









I passed on these items today, had something else on the list…









Stamped right up by the chuck…Keen Kutter, 6" sweep. Has a different chuck than I have in the shop..









Man on a Mission…so I turned my nose up at these sort of things..









I did wind up with another Yankee Push DRILL









Square is also a stanley….


----------



## bandit571

Search-fu seems to say the KK 6" brace was a Millers Falls No. 1054, last made in 1929…...

Chuck operates like new. Ratchet does too. Top handle turns freely. Once I got the clearcoat mess cleaned off, it looks like new.

The Yankee push drill? Only had one bit, the one in the chuck. Chuck is frozen, which explains why the tip did not disappear with the rest of the tips. Will try to "unlock" the chuck at a later date.

Square is covered in a not so clear Clearcoat









Will need to strip and clean it. And test it for square…ness…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Love the driver, Dan. Short shank, fits right where I need it this afternoon.










Easy driver it is, by name and in use!


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## DanKrager

I like the attachment that holds 1" bits I presume with a magnet. I'll not walk past one of those. It's one of the few tools I can successfully use to persuade those "Swedish nails" with slotted heads. Flipping the head to reverse is a bit of a pain, but one I can live with for the other benefits. Are they still being made?

DanK


----------



## bandit571

Well, this one is all clean and shiny….









Sold as a Keen Kutter, made by Millers Falls as a No.1054









Kind of a mutt & jeff going on…









And…somehow, I now have two of these









The ONLY reason the second one even had a bit? Someone had cranked the chuck down too far…..rest of the bits were MIA….Great drills for making pilot holes for any screws….


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Dan, i don't believe so. That's based on range of packaging decor I saw on the 'bay last week. YMMV.


----------



## realcowtown_eric

Bandit… did you leave that ? french coopers adze behind?

Eric


----------



## bandit571

Saw several of them today…The one in the picture had a $40 price tag on it! I was bummed out anyway..









tHIS Oak barrel was empty…..


----------



## wormil

I have one of those Yankee Bros push drills, used it today for the first time and didn't care for it. I like my Craftsman much better.


----------



## bandit571

There were a few drill bits to be had….most I already had…









I think he wanted $40 or so for that leather roll of auger bits, but I already had all the bits.









Along with the nail set, there was a twist drill for use in a brace….another place had a bunch of them @ $1 each….I got that one for use as a pilot hole drill…3/16" Craftsman

There was that Countersink bit….might have paid a dollar for. Sharp as all get out, almost like new. Haven't found a name on it, though. Has what looks like the factory grind on it. Might find some use for it….


----------



## DLK

I do like using a counter sink with my small brace. I almost keep it permanently installed. I find it so much better, sharper and handier, then the ones you get for an electric drill.


----------



## bandit571

Will have to give it a try, sometime. Might even install it in the KK 6" brace….


----------



## bandit571

All Users…









Black handles are Rosewood. There are a few others in the shop, but these are the main users. 6" up to a 14"

All but one of the eggbeater/breast drills…









Have one more eggbeater upstairs, wasn't enough room in the rack for it….

One of three sets of auger bits…









Some of these MIGHT need a sharpening. From a size #4 all the way up to a #22( Craftsman, at that!)The 22 is in another case at the moment.

Might find SOME use for all of these….someday….


----------



## slavic

@realcowtown_eric

I have the first one from your pictures, leftmost. Do you know something about it? what I can read is something MFG 
Co and Universal

>>

http://s940.photobucket.com/user/ecoyle1cowtown_eric/media/feb202014014_zps0b0604a3.jpg.html

Some folks find drills boring, others find the subject a bracing one..

I cobbled up this rack to keep some of the more curious ones out of the General tool morasse….Even amongst my oldtool buddies, them what find drills and their intracies are few and far between.

Glad I found this thread…


----------



## realcowtown_eric

Mine says….DRGM….big space….universal Was your "mfg co" immediately beforr the "universal?

This came from a collection of braces that was in an antique store, Paid 30-40 ea for the 4 0r 5 wierdest ones.

Eric


----------



## slavic

sorry, it is also DRGM just verified, I was wrong. I've found this http://www.toledo-bend.com/VCL/info_2/drgm.html

So it's german, between 1891-1949

it is a bit rusty but works surprisingly good, I'll cleanup and remove rust


----------



## bandit571

Drilled some pilot holes to install some hinges…









Seemed to work a bit better than the Buck Rogers push drill behind it.


----------



## CFrye

This past July, I reached out to Lumberjock Pastahill about this brace marked DRMG. 









Here is his response:

"The only thing i can say to your brace is that it is pre WWII because the Most Tool Manufaktur dont use D.R.G.M After the war. ( Deutsches Reich Geschmacks Muster)from the Mechanik i wild guess its around 1920. The most small toolmaker her in Germany did not stamp with there sign because they use Patents from the bigger Companys. I Never habe Seen this ratchet system."


----------



## bandit571

Gave the handle on this one a need finish, as I was testing things out..









Not too hateful?









There IS a number of sorts stamped on the crank….either it is a "No. 5" or maybe it is a "No. 6" hard to tell. Handle is a replacement. Looks almost like a Millers Falls #5. Used to have a rather beat up and cracked hollow handle, sans cap. Found the new handle elsewhere.


----------



## SonofWrenchman58

I found this Cole Tool No 7 at my favorite estate sale conglomerater about a month ago. It's taken me this long to post it here because I've been soaking it in the magic 50/50 acetone & ATF penetrating fluid, hoping that I don't break anything taking it apart!


































Thankfully, I didn't and have had all the major pieces off without harm. I do have a couple of questions for the board, though and hope that you can help me!


Is there a way to take the chuck apart? Right now it is full of swarf.
Is there a way to get the quill out of the head? I'm not sure quite how to describe this…
I'm hoping to build a base for it and make it a drill press for my workshop. Do y'all this this is a feasible idea?

It still need a lot of de-rusting and polishing to make it easier to work with but I'm excited to be able to use it.


----------



## DanKrager

I can speak to the taking chuck apart. Chucks are made with a shell screwed onto a "base" core that is drilled out for the jaws. I've found them really challenging to get apart without special tools because they are not really designed to come apart. On this chuck you can see that the shell seems to be screwed up tight against a lip at the top of chuck. The trick is to secure that lip and unscrew the shell from it. I've used a pipe wrench on the lip and a strap wrench on the shell most successfully, but the pipe wrench leaves teeth marks. I haven't found a way to hold the "base" without leaving some sort of mark on it. Some chucks are just two pieces, so the chuck key pivot holes in the core are a potential grip if you have some sort of spanner wrench. They are assembled with high torque and years of accumulated stuff don't help. 
You can very likely get by with a good cleaning. You've already soaked the chuck in rust solvent, so compressed air is your friend. Soak, blow, rinse, repeat until clean and smooth. If the chuck has been abused, the internal threads may be stripped or close to stripped and it will never be smooth. Replace it. 
You do know how to get the chuck off the quill, yes?
DanK


----------



## bigblockyeti

Do you have any information off the chuck you could share? Some have the shell pressed onto the split nut holding it in the body of chuck. If this is what you have, you can typically remove the shell from the body with an arbor or hydraulic press.


----------



## SonofWrenchman58

Dan - I think that between your post and what Yeti has to say, I'm going to leave the chuck together and do my best to clean it out as is.

The chuck's arbor is held into the main piece with a set hex-bolt which, thankfully, easily came loose after the couple of weeks sitting in penetrating fluid…

Yeti - I've included a couple of close-ups of the chuck but there don't seem to be any markings on it. Once I have put it through a regimen of de-rusting I will look at it more closely. It's probably going to take me a while, though…

Thank you both.


----------



## bigblockyeti

It looks like a Jacob's but I'm not sure if they trademarked the gripping pattern on the perimeter of the shell or not. Another far out way to clean a chuck (non-ball bearing only) is to pressure wash them then immediately dry completely with compressed air and oil thoroughly. The mass and velocity of the water can get stuff out that compressed air alone could never hope to.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

How about bits? These from the U.K. via ebay:


----------



## theoldfart

Center bits and spoon bits, good deal.


----------



## DanKrager

Oh Smitty, those spoon bits are just.. are just…OK they are just! How gorgeous the whole shebang.

And it has kindled the wants again, along with a taper cutter or two. Not that I NEED them or anything….

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, might be able to help with the taper itch. Let me check tonight.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I've had my lustful eyes on center bits for some time. That, mixed with a browsing habit within eBay, makes for a surefire way to hit the 'buy it now' button every now and then. All are Sorby, a very cool reality that scratches my itch for sets of things. So it's a win-win in my book. Might be destined for the inside door of the Not Wall Hung, too.


----------



## theoldfart

Sorby's to boot. Not bad. I like how they work, pretty quick boring.


----------



## bandit571

Making use of what I have on hand..









Pilot holes, and then a counter sink. Drill bit is a Brad-point bit. irwin counter sink bit. Brace is a Keen Kutter 6" sweep.


----------



## theoldfart

The more I use this Yankee the more I like it









Dowelling two pieces of 6/4 white oak for a glue up and it went quick.

Before glueing, almost perfect


----------



## WillliamMSP

What's the guide that you've got there, OF? Looks handy.


----------



## theoldfart

Stanley 60, the 59 is the same but with fewer bushings.


----------



## WillliamMSP

Another thing to add to the ebay searchs - thanks OF!


----------



## Dennisgrosen

good to see great blogs can live as long as those about old time tools 
thanks you foks for making it possible and Bertha for starting it

have a great day foks

Dennis


----------



## Mosquito

I'm not sure how many bushings I've got, I think it's just 1, but I've yet to use my #59. I didn't really buy it intentionally though, so I don't feel as bad lol (It came with a box full of other stuff a while back)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I came by my No. 59 the same way Mos. I do know how many bushings there are: the one that was in the jaws is all I got. And that will have to do.


----------



## Mosquito

haha, that's the same as mine, only reason I had a bushing was because it was still in it


----------



## DLK

The 59 came with 3/16, 1/4, 5/16, 38, 7/16, and 1/2 inch bushings. Mine came with all of them. Works great!

See http://www.jonzimmersantiquetools.com/features/59dowelinst.html

I think you can go and buy hardware store bushings. But the calibration for centering may depend on the bushing wall thickness.


----------



## DLK

There are a lot of 59s on ebay now. Here is a nice one.
Many of them have all the bushings and the original box.


----------



## derekcohen

Braces in the cabinet range from 5" through to 12" throws.










A couple of favourites ..

A 12" Miller's Falls ..










... and one I built in Sheoak and Tasmanian Blackwood (I've made a couple) ..










This wound up on the cover of Australian Wood Review …










Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## DLK

I think I am in love. Patent-Multiple-Speed-Bit-Brace


----------



## CFrye

Are you bringing her home, Don? You know, before you retire. ;-)


----------



## DLK

No. Too spendy for me. Sort of like a supermodel. LOL


----------



## DLK

*Which brace chuck?*

Thrilled with finally acquiring a magnificent MF 770 (Lion chuck 14" brace) thus completing my brace selection to 8",10",12",14" (with many duplicate 10" and one extra 8") I began to think about chucks. Should I replace my Barbers, Samsons and Holdalls purely with Lions? Is there some reason I should keep some of each?


----------



## Boatman53

What no 6" one Don. You gotta have an 6".
Jim

Here is one of my 6" braces.









Sorry photo bucket didn't resize it or whatever it's supposed to do.


----------



## bandit571

Looks just like my Keen Kutter 6" brace….


----------



## DLK

Been looking for a 6" and 16".


----------



## bandit571

Still haven't found a 16" around here….yet..









So, I guess a 6", 8", 10", 12" and a 14" will just have to do….


----------



## saltfly

Well here I am, a day late and a dollar short as they say. I thought I saw this thread. well I had to go look for the ones I had and take a picture. man I haven't use any of these in more years then I can remember. The top one belonged to my grand father on my dads side the middle one belonged to my grand father on my moms side. The bottom two my father. The augers a mix.


----------



## CFrye

Nice family portrait, saltfly.


----------



## saltfly

Thanks Candy just thought I would grow a family tree.


----------



## Marlow

Not sure if this is allowed (moderators please accept my apology in advance if its not), but there is a somewhat dreamy Millers Falls/Craftsman brace listed on the Trade and Swap forum right now.


----------



## DLK

Thanks for the post on the MF/C brace. I looked at it, but at $90 + shipping it seems to me to be somewhat over priced. (I just bought a MF 770 (14" swing, lion chuck) for $60 free-shipping and I think a more desirable brace.)
But maybe you'll get it.


----------



## Marlow

There is no doubt that there are many used braces easily found in the wild (there are over 2000 listed on eBay right now). However, the main selling point here is that it is in NEW OLD STOCK condition. These don't come around that often.


----------



## DLK

> There is no doubt that there are many used braces easily found in the wild (there are over 2000 listed on eBay right now). However, the main selling point here is that it is in NEW OLD STOCK condition. These don t come around that often.
> 
> - Marlow


My apologies


----------



## donwilwol

> Not sure if this is allowed (moderators please accept my apology in advance if its not), but there is a somewhat dreamy Millers Falls/Craftsman brace listed on the Trade and Swap forum right now.
> 
> - Marlow


But unfortunately it's a craftsman


----------



## DLK

I was looking at an ebay 3-hinge box of Russel Jennings trying to figure out if they are 101s or 100s when I decided to see if there were further details in the description. At the end they have written:

….......GIVEN THE AGE ALL TOOLS I SELL ARE NOT INTENDED FOR USE…RATHER FOR DISPLAY ONLY

I found it very amusing.


----------



## WayneC

> Still haven t found a 16" around here….yet..
> 
> So, I guess a 6", 8", 10", 12" and a 14" will just have to do….
> 
> - bandit571


I just found a Stanley 816 16" and saw a 16" sell on the bay.


----------



## WayneC

> I was looking at an ebay 3-hinge box of Russel Jennings trying to figure out if they are 101s or 100s when I decided to see if there were further details in the description. At the end they have written:
> 
> ….......GIVEN THE AGE ALL TOOLS I SELL ARE NOT INTENDED FOR USE…RATHER FOR DISPLAY ONLY
> 
> I found it very amusing.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Check the screws. 101s have a course thread in the lead screw if I remember correctly.


----------



## DLK

You do remember correctly and I was checking the screws. There was not a close enough photo to see them in this listing. I was looking at possibilities where I thought perhaps the seller did not know the difference.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

For display only. That reminds me of the old man toy restorer in Toy Story 2, when he finished with Woody. That didn't happen, either.


----------



## DanKrager

If anyone is interested in a good inexpensive brace It's a PEXTO being sold at 7.95 plus 11.95 shipping by someone that doesn't know braces. It's listed as a 15" but that's the length I'm sure. It looks to be an 8" sweep. 
DanK


----------



## WayneC

I hate it when sellers list the length of braces unless it is a rare brace.


----------



## DanKrager

Ya, me too, Wayne. Welcome back by the way….

I've tried to gently educate a few by messaging them asking questions and suggesting that they picture them as square on as possible with a framing square or other measuring stick underneath. My little contribution to the world affairs.

DanK


----------



## Mosquito

Picked up 3 braces today at our regional MWTCA meet. The first two I bought were ones that I wasn't necessarily looking for, but at $5 and $15 I couldn't say no. Yankee 2101 8" and 12" sweep respectively (right two). The third one I just happened to find late in the morning I must have missed a few times or something. A Millers Falls Holdall 734 (6" sweep) I've been chasing for a while now. I've got 734, 733, 732, and 731 now (6", 8", 10", 12"). Will be on the look out for the right 730 and 729 to show up now…


----------



## DLK

I really got to get to these MWTCA meets


----------



## Mosquito

this one was PACKED. Probably the most people I've seen at one yet in 5 years


----------



## GlenintheNorth

That's the one I was at today. Got a nice pic of me and mos and william that apparently no one hit the "take the picture" button for. Oh well! Freaking madhouse…there were rumbling that mentioned the word "record" more than once. What's really strange is that I normally find more stuff at the little ones!

Combo I got ya covered on the 6". As ya know I have a spare.


----------



## Mosquito

The Millers Falls family










And a better picture of the Yankees


----------



## theoldfart

As an MF Freak I gotta say the Yankees are by far the bestest things going. I have two and they by far beat out the MF's. They are my go to brace and drills.


----------



## Mosquito

That's kind of what I've heard in the past, so for the prices I thought I'd give 'em a shot. I do like my Holdalls, and haven't had any complaints with those either. I need to dig my brace bits out again… Wonder where they are


----------



## theoldfart

Right now my go to combination is a Yankee Brace and Ford bits. Clean and precise. The Fords are a local brand for me (Holyoke).


----------



## DLK

I have to say I do like my MF lion. What are the pros an cons? Why do you like the Yankee brace over a MF?


----------



## theoldfart

Solid construction, clean design, and bullet proof. They do not suffer long term wear issues like other brands.


----------



## WayneC

Plus 1 on the Yankees. They are solid I have 8, 10, 12 and 14". Love to find an ultra rare 6" and the Whimble. I've seen a couple of Whimbles sell on eBay recently. Both went for around $200 each.

Wow on the 6" Holdall Mos. I'm still looking for one. I have a couple of 6" Millers Falls 34s and a Fray 6". I would love to find a premium 6".

If anyone has chuck questions, I can take photos. I have Sampson, Lion, Holdall, Stanley 813, Yankee 21xx, and Goodell-Pratt 2500 examples.

As a side note, I just found a 16" Stanley 813. I finally got my first 16"

The brace I'm looking for at the Moment is a Goodell-Pratt 2508. If anyone sees one, please let me know.

Kevin, can you show a picture of your Ford Bits? By the way, I just got two more doweling bits and a case for them. The ones you gave me now have a home.


----------



## DLK

Here is a nice discussion by Ian Swain on different types of Augers.
and another by "Wonkee Donkee".

Yesterday I think I heard Roy Underhill mistakenly call a bull nose bit as a L'Hommedieu on the pbs 2014 episode "Shop Class Tabouret" of the Wood wrights shop.

It looks to me that the Ford bit is a L'Hommedieu style bit, but I am still trying to figure this all out.

What are 32 1/4 Russel jennings how are they different from 100's ?


----------



## DLK

> Here is a nice discussion by Ian Swain on different types of Augers.
> 
> - Combo Prof


----------



## theoldfart

My Yankee collection right now









From the left 1555, 1545, 2101 10" and 2101 12" 
If anyone can tell me the thread size on the chucks for the 1545 please let me know. Someone did a number on mine









Wayne, here are the Fords, they are a L'Hommedieu pattern. Millers Falls bought them out to start their entry in the auger market.


















These bits move the chips much faster than the Jennings or the Irwins.


----------



## DanKrager

Those are nice bits, Kevin. Well done.

This listing confuses me. The bits are clearly marked 100's but look at the lead threads. If that's not a 101 coarse lead…. What does the esteemed panel think?

DanK


----------



## WayneC

If I had to guess it is an assembled set.


----------



## DLK

> If I had to guess it is an assembled set.
> 
> - WayneC


But you can see written on the shanks RJ 100 Stanley Australia.

My question is are the RJ 32 1/2 No. 100s different then just No. 1002?


----------



## DLK

> If I had to guess it is an assembled set.
> 
> - WayneC
> 
> But you can see written on the shanks RJ 100 Stanley Australia.
> 
> My question is are the RJ 32 1/2 No. 100s different then just No. 1002?
> 
> - Combo Prof


Never mind I found this explanation.

Auger bits were sized in sixteenths, i.e. the number of 1/16 inches in the
bit's diameter. Thus a 1/2 inch bit was a number 8 (8/16) and a 3/4 inch
bit was a number 12 (12/16). If one had purchased a "roll" consisting of
these two, the half and three-quarters inch auger bits, it would comprise
two quarters for the 1/2 inch, and three quarters for the 3/4 inch, or a
total of five quarters. Therefore add the numbers of the bits (8+12) and
divide by 4. Your set would have had a group of bits whose size numbers
would have summed to 130 (32.5 quarters X 4 = the total number of
sixteenths). Your set would have been a #4-#16 (4+5+6+7+8+9+10+11+12+13+14+
15+16= 130 = 32.5 quarters.).

I find this very bizarre. I don't see how calling them 32.5 is very practical.

So why do we find some RJ 100s with course feed screw threads and some with finer threads.


----------



## theoldfart

Fine thread are 100's, corse thread are 101's. 100 are better suited to hard woods, 101 work better in softer woods.


----------



## DLK

> Fine thread are 100 s, corse thread are 101 s. 100 are better suited to hard woods, 101 work better in softer woods.
> 
> - theoldfart


Yes Keven thats what we all think, but then look at this listing

You can clearly see the feed screw is corse and you also clearly see the shanks are labeled RJ 100.

Whats the explanation?


----------



## theoldfart

First off, all of the RJ's I've seen have the logo embossed, these are printed. RJ's own literature makes the 100 vs101 distinction. I'm betting that these are mis labeled.


----------



## DLK

> First off, all of the RJ s I ve seen have the logo embossed, these are printed. RJ s own literature makes the 100 vs101 distinction. I m betting that these are mis labeled.
> 
> - theoldfart


They are the only i've seen say "Australia" too. Just very weird. Could they be some sort of knock-off.

(Incidentally I do agree that "RJ s own literature makes the 100 vs101 distinction" and I don't doubt your word on it.)

But in the result is I am checking the lead screw threads very carefully now.


----------



## theoldfart

Don, they may be some sort of Stanley licensed product.


----------



## DLK

> Don, they may be some sort of Stanley licensed product.
> 
> - theoldfart


Could be. Most of the wood in Australia is very hard, but they do have Hoop Pine, Radiata Pine and Slash Pine, the two latter of which are introduced species. So I would have thought it more likely that an RJ 100 in Australia would be a true RJ 100. Anyway this is all mysterious and we may never know. We should ask Derek to chime in.


----------



## theoldfart

Don, the anodizing tells me that they were made by someone other than RJ/Stanley. Hopefully Derek may some ideas on Ausie mfg.


----------



## DanKrager

Yes, it is a puzzle that is priced way beyond what interests me. Thanks for the input.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

They are overpriced by about $200 to my mind.


----------



## DLK

I sent a message to Derek and this is his reply:

Hi Don

I cannot say. Stanley did have a factory in Tasmania in the 80s, so I have no doubt that they are original.

The thread is often an issue because the coarse threads do not bite easily into harder wood. I came up with a fix for this, which you should try - and let me know how well it works for you.

I drilled a pilot hole slightly smaller than the screw, and then cut into this, It makes it easier for the screw ….










Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## theoldfart

Derek has a good method there, thanks.


----------



## Tim457

> If anyone has chuck questions, I can take photos. I have Sampson, Lion, Holdall, Stanley 813, Yankee 21xx, and Goodell-Pratt 2500 examples.
> - WayneC


I'd love that. I don't think I've ever seen a side by side comparison, so a listing of the types with the difference that help identify them would be great.


----------



## Mosquito

I also drill a pilot hole anytime I'm near the end of the board to prevent splitting


----------



## Tim457

> I also drill a pilot hole anytime I m near the end of the board to prevent splitting
> 
> - Mosquito


Me too, and if you use an expanding auger bits the lead screw can be really large diameter so it helps to drill a pilot with those too.


----------



## WayneC

> I d love that. I don t think I ve ever seen a side by side comparison, so a listing of the types with the difference that help identify them would be great.
> 
> - Tim


I did this blog post a few years ago… I need to add the Stanley 813 to it.


----------



## WayneC

Kevin, look what I found. FORD-HOLYOKE Antique Auger Drill Bit Set w/Original Wood Case Box Purchased 1907


----------



## theoldfart

Yea Wayne, I've been watching that. Three of the bits, 4,5,AND 7, do not match. My set has two mismatched bits and I haven't seen them singly yet. I think the price is too high, I paid something like 60 or 70 dollars less. Having the history is really cool. There is also a #20 out there I might grab.

A little Ford bit trivia. They made the biggest auger bit in the world and it was used to drill the locks on the Panama Canal!


----------



## WayneC

Wow. I found a 16" brace. Not sure if that is big enough. LOL

I think I told you I found a Greenlee case and a couple of dowel bits to go with the ones you gave me.


----------



## theoldfart

A lot of jealousy going your way Wayne thats awesome! 16" Yankee?


> ?


 Damn!

Is there an authoritative website for North Bros?


----------



## WayneC

16 inch Stanley 813. Not heard of a 16" Yankee. There are very rare 6" Yankees.


----------



## WayneC

Here is the 16" Stanley 813 with my 5" brace for contrast.










Also I recently found a 6" Sampson


----------



## DanKrager

Wayne, where did you find that? I just did a search for a 16" and didn't come up with one. I have a job where I think it would be useful…four 1 1/2" holes 12" deep in oak. Congratulations!

DanK


----------



## WayneC

They are not that common. I see them every month or so. There was a Sampson that sold about a week ago on eBay that I probably should have bid on. It did go for over $100. Sometimes you can find them miss identified.


----------



## DanKrager

I'm not fussy about brand since the 16" will be a user brace. Here is a 14"Lakeside in use drilling a 1 3/8" hole in an oak log as deep as the expansion bit is long 9". Sharp and with no twists to elevate out the chips they still eject remarkably well. I could only do two holes before I gave out completely. Rather aggressive even with fine lead threads. Chips where thick and stringy.










DanK


----------



## Tim457

Put yer back into it, 1-3/8" ain't nothin. Says the guy not trying to do it.  What are you making?


----------



## WayneC

Dan, If I see one for sale I will let you know.


----------



## DanKrager

Thanks Wayne.

I'm making a rack to hold small logs (branches) for cutting into firewood lengths. There will be four U uprights into which I can drop the load of branches from my forks and then make three vertical chainsaw cuts through the bundle to create a pile of firewood. I sold my cordwood saw, so this is actually a quicker way to cut firewood with less handling.

If I weren't so paranoid, I could heat my shop. But as it is, it's just for fire pit and fire place. It's amazing how much wood is produced on 5 acres!

DanK


----------



## Tim457

Solid idea. Maybe make your own T handle for some extra torque?


----------



## DLK

> Solid idea. Maybe make your own T handle for some extra torque?
> 
> - Tim


I think a red/green approach involving welding a wheel to an auger bit and a belt joining it to a running truck wheel plus lots of duct tape is required.


----------



## bandit571

Around here, about every Antique Shop has a vender selling "Barn Augers" most with the T handles…


----------



## DanKrager

It's not too bad using the ratchet in single quadrant, but there's a lot of strenuous repetition. Considering what showed up today, a T handle could be on the list. Good idea…enablers!

Love the Red Green approach. Why didn't I think of that. Big fan.

This is what showed up today….got it primarily for the gimlets. After studying on the magnified picture of the stuff for a long time, I was able to determine that there is a rather complete range of sizes. Plus all the other stuff. An auger brace like I've never seen…not the modified "corner" ratchet…the other one has a tapered socket, but the handle does not swivel. Just screws on. There's even a spare handle, but the threads are iffy. I've never seen a brace driven plug cutter. The square socket is apparently for bolts only, perhaps lag bolts. The biggest auger is razor sharp and I wish they hadn't cut the tang off… Notice that there are no spurs, just very sharp wings. End grain work? The tiny short one is like that too. The others have spurs.

What can the panel tell about the three bits with no pilot. Again, very unusual and like I've never seen. What are they for?








DanK


----------



## Tim457

I've got nothing on your no pilot bits, but the large one may not have ever had a square tang. The auger bits that go in beam boring machines just have a flat on one side to register a set screw. It looks like there may be a flat there and it's large enough to be for a beam boring machine. The upswept wings are described in the link Don put above as being for hard woods and rough work. If I recall correctly, that was the way spurs were originally developed before the invention of them facing the work to score first.


----------



## DLK

Speaking of softwood end grain ….. I was drilling a 12/16 deep hole into a pine 2 by 4 end with an irwin. It did not go well. Switched to an RJ 100 and it was swift and easy.


----------



## DanKrager

Thanks, Tim. Yes, after examining this big bit some more it meets the criteria for a beam boring machine. Anybody want it? I'd sell it for $10 plus shipping if that's fair.

DanK


----------



## bandit571

These were going for $35 a pop, at an auction over a year ago…









LJer Justplainjeff had an auction a while back..









Wish I had more in me pocket, that cold morning…









Only had a fiver…









Oh well…









2 planes for $5….


----------



## Tim457

> Thanks, Tim. Yes, after examining this big bit some more it meets the criteria for a beam boring machine. Anybody want it? I d sell it for $10 plus shipping if that s fair.
> 
> DanK
> - Dan Krager


As long as it's not the 1-3/4" diameter I already have for mine I would.


----------



## DanKrager

I think it is supposed to be 1 1/2" but I see it as 1 7/16" I'll put calipers on it to know for sure. Stay tuned.

Did anyone notice that the three pilotless bits (lower left) were completely hand forged? I was studying on them about how to sharpen them and how they had been sharpened and began to notice minute irregularities. I realized they were twisted from a flat(tened) bar that may have been beat into a crisp width mold from a round stock. Very well done however it was made.

DanK


----------



## Tim457

1-7/16 would be perfect for a 1-1/2" mortise. Does it have a 1/2" shank?

Interesting, now that you point it out you can see slight irregularities, but man that would take some skill to do. Have you figured out more about them? Do they work in wood or are they for something else?


----------



## DanKrager

Hi Tim, Just came in from shop and forgot to measure. I guess I was lucky to find my way in for supper…  I do know it is NOT larger than 1 1/2". Yes the shank is 1/2" with a flat.

DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Details of the beam bit. 

















DanK


----------



## DLK

^ So what does that dial say?


----------



## DanKrager

I listened real close, but I couldn't hear it say anything.  1.490 is what it reads…sorry for bad focus. It was the best of several.

However, there was a big OOPS today as I was testing it to be sure of it. Worked beautifully until the tip snapped off. Oh dear. But I have friends in low places and we're going to attempt the "impossible". I think it can be effectively repaired to original size. I was able to extract the point using a plug cutter, but there's no point (unintended pun) to it other than to continue the hole later. We're gonna wait and see what the repair looks like before anything else happens. Unless someone wants to try on a free bit.









DanK


----------



## DLK

The Stable:










Left to Right

M.F. 34 (6")
V&B 222 (8") (Vaughan & Bushnell)
M.F. 1950 (10") with barber chuck used to battle Killer Kane
Unmarked, but belonged to my Grandmother (10")
Pexto 5312 (12")
M.F. 770 (14")

Plan is buy someday a 16" brace and retire one of the 10", then maybe replace a 10" with a Stanley 2100.

I have of several more, ( its hard to not buy a brace for $1 or 2$) these I use.


----------



## theoldfart

Nice box of RJ's there Don


----------



## DLK

> Nice box of RJ s there Don
> 
> - theoldfart


Yes 
And there is also a nice MF 34 and MF 77 in the picture too.


----------



## DanKrager

OK. If there's an OOPS and you fix it, is it SPOO?

It works as well as original. 

























DanK


----------



## donwilwol

Howdudodat


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, how? It do look gooder!


----------



## DLK

I can see two practical ways to do this? Both leave me with questions. So rather then guess please tell us.


----------



## DanKrager

It'd be a lot more fun if you were to guess.

It's pretty straight forward brute force. First you get one of your friends in low places who doesn't know you can't do this to pile molten metal on the prepared platform (ground and heated dark red) with a wire welder. You can see the result of that in the first picture. Then you mount the bit in a lathe and make sure the body is turning concentric to the axis, i.e. the bit is not wobbling. With an angle grinder steadied on a tool rest, proceed to spin the bit very slowly and take very light cuts until the correct conical shape appears. With a Dremel cut off wheel, carefully lay out a spiral of approximately the right pitch. There are two spirals proceeding from the cutting lip to the tip. When those passes have reached almost full depth, one gets out the magnification and micro triangular file and gets after it until the threads are nearly sharp and very even. Then chase the threads to full sharp while the bit is spinning slowly. Touch up any irregularities. Then fill the treads with microchromium rouge, and work them in and out of a soft wood maybe a hundred times until polished. Then take some bad pictures with a cheap phone camera and it all looks pretty good. Didn't have the nerve to put it into oak, but it worked fine in pine. I'm pretty sure it would have done OK in the oak though.
DanK


----------



## DLK

I was afraid that was the method. Basically one of the two methods I thought of, but not with all the gory horrific details. Could you have ground off the lower spiral leaving the center dowel. Ground the center dowel into a point and then cut the threads with the dremel and file. Of course you loose the spurs this way.


----------



## DanKrager

The web is too thin, I think. And the spurs are worth whatever it takes to save them.

Of course, with this method of adding material one could also put on new spurs.

DanK


----------



## CFrye

Looks SPOO to me, Dan! Want to try it on a 1/4" bit?


----------



## DanKrager

My magnifiers are not THAT good, Candy. LAWL.

You've dug us some sweet stuff recently! Are you using the stuff or "doing the Wilwol"?

DanK


----------



## CFrye

Well, I hope to start cleaning more rust but, for now, I guess I'm "doing the Wilwol" for now. Or is it the "PoopieKat"? 
;-P
Going to the SWTCA Tool Meet in Joplin this weekend…


----------



## terryR

Dan, that's almost unbelievable.
way to go!


----------



## KentInOttawa

I just received this set of 7 gimlets with my latest Lee Valley order. Less than $20 delivered and they work very well. "Made in France".









Edit: Okay. So they're not vintage, but they are much easier to find and just as useful.


----------



## CFrye

Nice set, Kent! I confess, I finally looked up what a gimlet is for. Coulda used one on my mitre box restore. 
Can anyone tell me what this Diamond Edge bit is/was?


----------



## DanKrager

Looks like a screwdriver to me. But when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

DanK


----------



## bandit571

Drag link..


----------



## CFrye

To me, It looks like it has been modified to become a screwdriver bit, Dan. I have never seen one with the flange like this one. Have you?

Drag what link to where, Bandit?


----------



## bandit571

Used with a ratchet. Looks like a socket, with a wide, thick screwdriver tip on the end.


----------



## CFrye

So, not modified?


----------



## DLK

*Kent. *I bought what looks a similar set but only of 4 of these gimlets on e-bay for $8.50 Same dealer is selling a set for $4.74. See this link.










I only have issues with the smallest 5/64" diameter one. It is a little bendy.

Anyway I wonder if what you bought is better or the same.



> I confess, I finally looked up what a gimlet is for. Coulda used one on my mitre box restore.
> 
> - CFrye


*Candy.* I think a square point awl is a better choice. Lee Valley has this one. 

But I Think you could make one. Also see Paul Sellers discussion here.


----------



## bandit571

"Dragging the line…" 









Along with a "normal" Screwdriver bit, by Merrit.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Candy - I recently learned of them, myself. Then, it seemed like there were references to them everwhere.

Don K. - When I checked the link you posted, that set was only $0.99 US, but the $15.50 shipping to Canada put it well over what Lee Valley charged for the set I bought. Between delivery fees and exchange on the dollar, tools, when we can even get them, are more expensive here (eg.- two guys in a garage won't even ship here).

I haven't tried the smallest of these yet, but the only problem I've had with the rest I that I can't seem to get them to make the correct number of holes. I'm still working on that.


----------



## CFrye

Interesting, Don. Thanks for the links. Now, I know the purpose of a birdcage awl, too!

Bandit, I'm still confused. I know the song 'Draggin the Line'. Are you saying the part on my bit that looks like a flat bladed screwdriver goes into a socket?


----------



## bandit571

Nope, looks just like a screwdriver, to me…









Just when I need a lot of torque to move a slotted head screw ( or bolt) the ratchet driven one works nicely…..


----------



## DanKrager

No I've not seen one like that Candy. I'm not old enough…

DanK


----------



## DLK

Kent. I did not see you were in Canada. You just need to get a buddy in Odgensburg and have stuff shipped to his house. I'll see if my nephew is a available. LOL.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Don K. - Yeah, that would normally be an option, but I've got so many medical limitations that I need to budget all my activities. For example, I can either go to the pharmacy at the corner, a 2-mile round trip, or I can spend some time in the shop that day. Either choice may leave me wiped out for another day or two after that. Needless to say, I try and send the wife to the pharmacy and then get in some shop time! She's been great about it. The longest road trip that I've made this year was about 21 miles, round trip.

On the plus side, I have lots of free time and I can and do get shop time whenever I am able; the shop only 15 feet from my TV and PC. Most of what I do is geared towards making my shop a hand tool only shop using only hand tools and on-hand lumber stock. Progress is slow, but the progress is quite therapeutic and I have the time.

My purchases are few and far between, so eBay, Lee Valley and (yuck) Amazon have been keeping me supplied. Lee Valley is only 4.5 miles from here, but I still wait for their free shipping offers before I place an order. In the strange world that we live in, these orders still travel over 250 miles to arrive at my place the day after they are shipped.


----------



## DLK

Sorry to hear about your health limitations. I think we all act under the misguided assumption that everyone else is living under the same circumstances as ourselves. So forgive my suggestion.

When ever I order from Lee Valley it is first shipped from Ottawa to East Syracuse (where my 90 year old mother lives and I often visit) and then somehow makes it to Houghton, Michigan which by latitude is north of Ottawa. Where as Winnipeg which has a Lee Valley is about a day and a half drive from me.

Shipping, distribution centers, international trade all remain a mystery to me.


----------



## KentInOttawa

There is nothing to forgive; you were offering me information which could have benefited me. That's the sort of behaviour that we should all be encouraging.

+1 on the logistic maze. It will cost $12 to get a #4 size plane shipped 6 miles but only $20 to Vancouver, another 2750 miles but in the same country. But getting something from Seattle will at least double the cost. Stop it; my head hurts!


----------



## DanKrager

Family shot. I'm done now. Forget the 16".,,that want is satisfied. Have three 10" and need to decide what to keep and what to sell. WWYD? Keep the relatively light weight Stanley, a repaired heavy duty MF (not shown) or a lighter weight MF in good condition? I bought the very cheap MF 10" to move the chuck from one over to the giant (looks small) Pexto with the square hole chuck. Maybe one of the chucks to the stripped Lakeside (the very long chuck) Haven't engineered an adapter yet.










DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Whoa there pardner! That leftmost brace, 10" throw? Some sort of user modified whimble? Please tell us, inquiring minds need to know. And I do mean NEED!


----------



## Tim457

Wow, amazing work on that bit Dan. Do work that good and I've got another 2" bit that had it's lead screw snapped off to send your way too. I agree on needing to know about that biggun' too.


----------



## DLK

I would put one of the 10" braces in your traveling toolbox for home repairs etc and maybe give the ugliest one away.

I used to always reach from my 10 buck rogers for routine drilling, my 12 inch pexto for more torque drilling and a 8" stanley for countersinking. Now I have a 14" MF when I need the torque and I like this brace so much my 10" and 12" braces are gathering dust. I also now have thanks to Glen a 6" MF for countersinking. So I may not use the 8" either on the other hand I have just picked up some brace tiny twist bits and screw driver bits so we shall see.


----------



## DanKrager

Well, for those who MUST know, it's a modified whimble advertised as a 7312 MF but there are no markings other than on the Lions chuck. It is such an excellently executed mod that I felt comfortable springing for it. Not a bargain, but OK for what it is. Should clean up nicely.

No wonder you guys have to cut wood so many times. It's an 11" throw! You have to go for a walk around in a BIG circle to run the thing. 

Sounds like the beginnings of a plan, Combo.
DanK


----------



## UpstateNYdude

Posting my pride and joy, my complete and completely torn down and redone MF no. 2 I searched ebay for about 6 months before finally finding one with the thrust bearing that wasn't complete trash or missing other parts, also wanted the elongated handle.

Took me about 5 months working on and off and about 4-5 coats of paint.





































This thing is like my 3rd child because of all the time I spent on it. I already told my wife when I die it's being buried with me, it is so freaking smooth and I get all giddy every time I use it.

I have a nice no. 5 waiting in the ranks to clean up also to add to my tool chest whenever the hell I get a chance to start/finish it I'll post it up.


----------



## DanKrager

Upstate, that is just gorgeous. Worth every minute you put into it. The basic drill is pretty and you did way above the call of duty restoring it!

DanK


----------



## DLK

That looks great. But if its buried with you make sure you have some bits buried too that you can use to drill air holes and remove screws.


----------



## bigblockyeti

That drill looks amazing, what kind of shape was it in when you first got your hands on it?


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> That looks great. But if its buried with you make sure you have some bits buried too that you can use to drill air holes and remove screws.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Thanks! Sadly no bits were in the handle, but the no. 5 I just found had 11 in its handle so that along with the set of carbide tipped ones I bought will stay together so I can rise again like the walking dead.



> That drill looks amazing, what kind of shape was it in when you first got your hands on it?
> 
> - bigblockyeti


I only have 1 pic










Thanks everyone for the nice comments, I like restoring tools, I spend more time than I probably should on small things that would only really matter to me, but it matters to me when I'm going to be the one using it. I can't do a lot of loud projects in the winter when my kiddos are sleeping so I'm regulated to sanding, painting, or finishing which makes up a vast majority of the restorations I do.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Looks like you had a good foundation to start with but that takes away nothing from the outstanding restored you did with that drill!


----------



## Bertha

played with some drills and augurs this week.










I keep these 3 guys setup & hanging on a peg. Haven't changed the bit in a long time.


----------



## theoldfart

Al, don't you like side handles?


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> I keep these 3 guys setup & hanging on a peg. Haven t changed the bit in a long time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Bertha


No idea what the breast drill is, but is that a Goodell Pratt in the middle and a MF no. 5 on the end?


----------



## HokieKen

Nice #2 Nick! My #2 and #5 are my favorite drills. I find I use the #5 more often but the #2 is nice when I need a little more "ummph". Here are before and after pics of my #2. I have picked up a side knob for it since taking these pics.


----------



## Bertha

Fart, I like them but they get in the way where I hang them alongside the bench. I like to grab them quickly for pilots, centering a lathe blank, etc. I'll be the first to admit that I'll reach for the cordless if I'm going to be drilling for a while but if I'm on one of my hand-tool only kicks, I'll pop in the handles. Sadly, I haven't touched a brace in a while.


----------



## bandit571

Might have a few braces..


















Handcranked ones include a Millers Falls No. 120, a No. 2-01 and a few strange looking eggbeaters…








Trying to keep the herd manageable…..


----------



## theoldfart

Bertha, I kind of figured that. My go to drills are all Yankees at this point, I need to get rid of the MFs and GPS.


----------



## Bertha

I've got a bunch of braces, too. Some are just for lookin'at. Nothing beats a brace for drilling dog holes in a bench. I'd love to have a long throw like you show. It seems like it took forever to find a couple chest drills but once I did, I find them everywhere. Same goes for Stanley 66's. It reminds me of the .22 Cal glut. I bought up everything I saw. Now I've got a bunch of .22s, and 66's, and chest drills…...


----------



## bandit571

Next will be them push drills…..









Buck Rogers? Or…









Or Yankees?


----------



## DLK

Had to laugh.

I have a search on e-bay for RJ 101 and this up.


----------



## theoldfart

Hey, you can buy it now. Such a deal!


----------



## DLK

> Had to laugh.
> 
> I have a search on e-bay for RJ 101 and this *came* up.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I see "*came*" was jammed up against the link and did not appear in the post. But the link still worked. I don't get it.


----------



## Tim457

> I see "*came*" was jammed up against the link and did not appear in the post. But the link still worked. I don t get it.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Because of the way that link was constructed, the letters to "came" got added to the letters and numbers sent as the "hash". So basically the mistaken link either messed up their tracking or they just read the first x characters in the hash anyway and it didn't change anything.

Here's what the end of the URL looked like:
/132133390179?hash=item1ec3c38763:g:SFIAAOSw4A5Y0KWecame

the URL works with everything from the question mark and after removed. That's common for tracking URLs and other parameters.


----------



## DLK

Yes I saw that. I was just curious why it stilled worked given that the hash would be messed up. I don't know what the URL protocol is.


----------



## WayneC

I just got a #2. Deciding if I will restore or leave as is. It seems to function fine. I am thinking it was repainted.


----------



## HokieKen

It's definitely been painted Wayne. At least AFAIK, they never made any with red on the chuck, the crank handle or the ferrule. I thinks it's probably been re-handled as well. None of the #2s with that frame type had a solid handle IIRC. Unless it's a 2B, they didn't have the storage in the handle. Regardless though, a good user is a good user!


----------



## Bertha

I'm obsessed with storage handles. I particularly like discovering one that the seller doesn't know is there (caked in grime, painted over, etc.) Anyone have a great method of "rethreading" for when the slop becomes to great? I've been melting beeswax into the threads but there might be a better way. I'd prefer not to bore them out and insert threaded sleeves if at all possible.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> I just got a #2. Deciding if I will restore or leave as is. It seems to function fine. I am thinking it was repainted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - WayneC


That's totally been repainted, there is no MF I've ever seen with maroon and/or orange on it, plus the collars and chucks aren't ever painted.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

Also Wayne are you sure that's a no. 2 it looks an awful lot like a 5.


----------



## Bertha

Does MF actually use paint? It's so durable that I always thought it was some kind of japanning. Regardless, it used to be the first thing to go in a refurb. Now I just leave it alone.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

I could be wrong, but I've seen them chipped out, but that doesn't mean someone else couldn't have come along and painted it again, but I was assuming some kind of good enamel or maybe it is a type of japanning, when I did mine I used a high end modeler's enamel paint that's supposed to be waterproof blah blah blah, I didn't really care but the guy at the model store sold me on it and it's held up great.


----------



## Bertha

If I'm going to paint something, I use that Rustoleum "Hammered" crap. I'm not buying the "hammered" appearance argument but that stuff holds up to anything. I painted some gym equipment with it and it's held up to years of battering. I did some actual "japanning" some time ago and it ended in disaster. It hardened, and was impervious, but most of it ended up somewhere other than the tool. It's like that spray insulation crap. If it gets on something, it's settled in.


----------



## WayneC

> Also Wayne are you sure that s a no. 2 it looks an awful lot like a 5.
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


It is a #5. Moving too fast on my part.


----------



## HokieKen

I think MF used enamels on their drills, at least the ones I've had my hands on. I've sandblasted a few drills and a few MF planes and the paint on the drills comes off much easier than the japanning on the planes.

I used Duplicolor engine enamels on my #2 and #5, same as I use on hand planes.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> If I m going to paint something, I use that Rustoleum "Hammered" crap. I m not buying the "hammered" appearance argument but that stuff holds up to anything. I painted some gym equipment with it and it s held up to years of battering. I did some actual "japanning" some time ago and it ended in disaster. It hardened, and was impervious, but most of it ended up somewhere other than the tool. It s like that spray insulation crap. If it gets on something, it s settled in.
> 
> - Bertha


Yeah I've seen the blogs on redoing the original japanning and it just looks like a nightmare, I'll stick with spray paint or brush on oil paints, looks just as good, holds up just as well (if done correctly) and is a whole hell of a lot easier.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

What I really need is a small sand blasting setup as stripping them with wire brushes, sand paper and other tools is getting annoying.


----------



## HokieKen

> What I really need is a small sand blasting setup as stripping them with wire brushes, sand paper and other tools is getting annoying.
> 
> - UpstateNYdude


Well worth it if you have the space and re-paint a lot of tools you restore like I do. I'm fortunate to have access to blasters at work but I think I'd grab a small cabinet for use at home if I didn't.


----------



## Tim457

> I m obsessed with storage handles. I particularly like discovering one that the seller doesn t know is there (caked in grime, painted over, etc.) Anyone have a great method of "rethreading" for when the slop becomes to great? I ve been melting beeswax into the threads but there might be a better way. I d prefer not to bore them out and insert threaded sleeves if at all possible.
> 
> - Bertha


If there is a better way I'd love to know too. It's hard to add material back to the threads. The only other thing I can think of is waxing one side of the threads thoroughly and carefully adding thickened epoxy to the other threads, then threading them together until the epoxy sets partly. So many things could go wrong, from the epoxy sticking to both parts, to squeezing out and causing damage when you remove the squeeze out.


----------



## HokieKen

You could try building a film of poly on the internal threads where it wouldn't be visible. A few coats might get you where you need.


----------



## Bertha

I wonder if building up some hide glue would work. You could always bail yourself out of that. I've had similar catastrophes with epoxy. The poly is a really good idea, as it will take a coat of wax if it gets too grippy.


----------



## slavic

My german 6" brace, works pretty good. This holds drill bits firmly, easy to use.


----------



## Bertha

^it's quite attractive too.


----------



## bandit571

Had no room for this drill last year..









Was missing a couple parts, and had a Holdall chuck on board..









Then, I turned these two down, as well..









The one on the right need a Line Shaft, which I don't have..


----------



## DLK

Hey Miller Falls enthusiasts a.k.a Glen did you see "Millers Falls No 97, adjustable sweep Brace" on e-bay, only $1,299.99. You don't see these often.










My question is except for rare, cool, highly collectable and will break down to fit a small tool box. Why on earth would you want one. Should you desire to make the sweep smaller the rods will still stick out the full 6 inches and probably wack in you in the arm as you turn the brace.


----------



## WayneC

I see them occasionally and high priced. I think the novelty is the attraction. I think if they were best sellers and useful we would see a ton of them.


----------



## Tim457

But, but, you could make one with different length rods so there's not so much extra. It would be like the 55, a universal brace, and almost as much of a behemoth.


----------



## WayneC

Someone needs to make one with a Yankee Chuck and handles. Tool steel is not that expensive


----------



## realcowtown_eric

I think that that paint was a tool ID "mark" by the user. used the sme method shamelessly way back in my mispent youth just to ID tools that belonged in the truck or the shop. Still got some just to remind me …...

Eric


----------



## Syvar

Hi All - I was referenced here from this thread. http://lumberjocks.com/topics/215002 I'm looking for a handle for a Craftsman 1071 breast drill. I'm setting up shop, new to woodworking, and would love to be able to use this drill. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Sy


----------



## DLK

Have you considered making a handle? I do not think it would be difficult.


----------



## Tim457

I was thinking that, the piece of steel with a slot in it that fits in the groove on the gear would be easy enough. But making the handle is a little harder. You need a shaft, a properly shaped handle with a hole bored through it, then a good way to keep the handle on the shaft semi permanently but let it rotate in your hand. You'd also need to be able to attach the shaft to the slotted steel part.


----------



## DLK

Use a carriage bolt for the shaft. Drill a hole through the handle blank. Cinch the bolt into the handle blank with a couple of nuts. Shape handle with spoke shave. Chuck the end of the bolt it into the drill press and while spinning sand the handle smooth and thereby making it round to the central axis. Mark the end of the handle on the bolt and with a file remove or at least smooth out any threads that are under the handle. Thread a hole in the end of the steel arm to receive the bolt. Screw bolt into the handle and make sure handle turns freely. Adjust until it dose. Then a fix the shaft to the arm with epoxy. Or some variant of this idea. Perhaps adding a brass bushing.


----------



## bandit571

Drill the blank, split the blank along the grain, glue the blank back together using a piece of paper between the halves, shape the blank. Sand and finish the blank. Split the blank and clean off the paper. Re-glue the blank AFTER it is placed on the drill.


----------



## Syvar

Thanks All. All great thoughts. I ended up finding what I believe is the same one on eBay and bought it. Worst case, I'm pretty sure the handle will work. Best case, it's the exact drill and I'll have a working original.

Cheers,
Sy


----------



## TheFridge

So. Do I go brace bits with a fine lead screw or pilot hole for hardwood? (Walnut maple cherry ash etc)


----------



## DLK

I have no problem with RJ 100s and ash. (Fine thread and no pilot hole.) I some times wax the threads.


----------



## TheFridge

I have a set of NOS irwins with the coarse lead screw. Think I might try pilot holes before buying more bits. It tends to split stock less than 1".


----------



## HokieKen

> So. Do I go brace bits with a fine lead screw or pilot hole for hardwood? (Walnut maple cherry ash etc)
> 
> - TheFridge


I have next to no experience with auger bits but the one thing I have learned is that the ones with coarse lead threads don't do well in oak. At least not in larger sizes with no pilot.


----------



## DLK

Yeah. I'm not keen on the irwins, but I only tried them once.


----------



## bandit571

Why a pilot hole? Isn't that what the lead screw is doing?

Only problems I have had has been to forget when to stop. Like just as the lead screw emerges from the wood, I need to stop, and flip the board over.


----------



## DLK

I have an eBay alert "Miller falls lion" in search of lion chuck braces I don't have and this came up:









I think it is a must have for the Miller Falls enthusiast. Buy it here.

Only, $5.99 plus $1.99 S&H

I think Glen would proud to wear it.


----------



## bandit571

Little eggbeater drill…









Didn't have any bits in the handle….$4

Millers Falls #104


----------



## BlasterStumps

Ever try using a whimble brace? Both hands can help turn the blasted thing with just a little practice. Here is why you would need both hands… Picture this: Your working as a lineman or groundman on an overhead transmission line build for the power company and you don't have an electric drill on hand but you need to drill a hole for a crossarm bolt or thru-bolt for whatever. One inch or 1-1/8" diameter hole through an 18" diameter cross section (or larger) of the wood pole where you need to drill. Ever try that with a 12, 14, or even a 16" brace drill. I used to drill holes with a brace and bit quite a lot back in my younger days working as a lineman but I don't think I would have lasted drilling an 18" hole without taking a long break. Just drilling a hole in 35 ft pole at crossarm height would always make me a little winded. We used 12" braces back then. 
For transmission poles though, a 12" brace would wear you thin. Here are a couple pictures of a whimble brace and the bits that would have been used on larger diameter poles like you would have on a transmisson line. You would need some arm strength if you were going to use this setup very much:


----------



## bigblockyeti

The electric company recognized their product was to expensive even for their own employees? They must have been members of the public utilities commission of Ohio! We've received more taxation without representation than most states as of lately courtesy of PUCO.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Just recently re-lubed these two Stanley drills. Both run real nice now. I have a good piece of advice for anyone cleaning out one of these type drills. When you get down to where the only things left inside of it are the spring, detent, and direction selector pin, just leave them in place. If the direction selector pin works back and forth okay, no need to mess with it. The old grease shouldn't be in that area of the head anyhow. Putting those three pieces back in the drill is a real pain, not to mention the chance of dropping the little spring. 
Mike


----------



## theoldfart

Nice Yankees Blaster, 8" & 10" ?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks. They're both 8". Seems like they will be good users. I don't think either one has seen much use up to now. 
Mike


> Nice Yankees Blaster, 8" & 10" ?
> 
> - theoldfart


----------



## WayneC

Yes. Beautiful.


----------



## bandit571

Today's finds….









One side..









Second side…









There were tapered shanks….









And shanks for a brace to hold onto..









1-1/4" Expansive bit is marked as a Craftsman. 
There were a few oddballs, and a couple center punches. Meh..$2?


----------



## bandit571

Weren't those tapered shanks for a drill press that didn't use a chuck? 
There is a "fuzzy" bit in there…..except the fuzz seems to be teeth. Almost a rasp for a drill.
There is one Screw extractor in the pile, as well.

Looks like I'll need to get out that empty drill index, and fill it up…..


----------



## TheFridge

I'd guess those bits are a Morse taper or the like. Don't know where they'd be used outside of machining.


----------



## bigblockyeti

I've seen those used in machining exclusively, taking the Morse to Jacobs adapter & the chuck out of the equation means no jaws to slip on a smooth shaft bit and the ability to transfer torque until something breaks.


----------



## bandit571

Like on a Lathe?


----------



## bigblockyeti

Or on a drill press.


----------



## bandit571

Day 2….a tool box was bought…and it wasn't empty. They even had a plug cutter stuck into an 8" brace….

Photos when I get done today….


----------



## ToddJB

You could use them on your wood lathe. Fast way to increase the size of a hole.


----------



## bandit571

Inside a Peerless Tool Box..









That i spent $10…because..










There were a few Mayhew punches, and nail sets, a couple taps, a 1/4" Gimlet, a 5/8" plug cutter than was stuck in that Made in USA ( Millers Falls?) brace. There were a few Irwin USA bits…









This is a #14 beer can opener..









That "washer" used to be the side of a can of Beer.

There were also a full range of R. Jennings bits, from 1/4" up to 1"....mainly fine threads on the smaller ones









There were a few "normal" drill bits, and a few twist drills for a brace..5/32" and up. And there was a large countersink bit. Still cleaning and sorting. Some of the Jennings were stamped on the shaft, but most were stamped in the tapered, square end.

Had so many "new" bits, I wound up buying two more braces. Might be worth the 10 spot?


----------



## bandit571

R. Jennings bits, all cleaned up….









All of these have fine threads..small one is a 1/4" bit..









And there was a few with coarse threads…









The "Made in USA" brace that came with the tool box. Had a 5/8" plug cutter stuck in the chuck..









"Made in W Germany" is stamped on the cutter. Gimlet is a 1/4" one..









The larger bits were from Day 1, the rest were from that tool box. 









And, this is about it for the weekend. 1-1/4" expansive bit, and a couple of Irwins..7/8" and 1"

Beginning to think that tool box might have been worth that 10 spot?


----------



## DanKrager

Bandit…

YOU SUCK!

DanK


----------



## bandit571

The tapered shank bits have either a MAJOR or a MORSE stamped on them.

There is a Diamond with a "USA" inside it. There is an "H" and an "S", one on either side of the diamond. 
Apparently both the drills I've cleaned up are stamped as "MAJOR" and MORSE. 
One is in 32nds, the other is in 64ths.

Haven't started on the others, yet.


----------



## DanKrager

That's a LOT of cleanin' man.

DanK


----------



## UpstateNYdude

Just finished up a Craftsman 107.1 (Millers Falls 2A clone) hand drill, I didn't like the original burgundy paint on the wheel and the ugly maroon finish on the handles so I modified it from original, but she looks great to me and works like a champ. The chuck on these doesn't have any lock screw like the MF do so getting that apart to smooth the inner walls so the jaws would open and close decent was quite painful.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nicely done UpstateNYdude. It sure is pretty now.

I have an odd bit that I am wondering if is a woodworking tool or maybe leather working. I was hoping someone might be able to tell from a couple pictures. I'm guessing leather working.


----------



## theoldfart

Gasket cutter, adjustable diameter.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'll have to sharpen it up and give it a try. I have some heavy gasket material. That would be nice if it will cut it cleanly. Thanks.


> Gasket cutter, adjustable diameter.
> 
> - theoldfart


----------



## theoldfart

Are the two cutting arms the same size? Usually the is one per side 180 degrees off from each other. I'll post a pic if you need it.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I think they are the same. I can knock the wedge loose and switch one to the other side. I'll give that a try too. Thanks for the help on it.
Mike


> Are the two cutting arms the same size? Usually the is one per side 180 degrees off from each other. I ll post a pic if you need it.
> 
> - theoldfart


----------



## TheFridge

Gasket cutter for a brace? Interesting. See something new everyday.


----------



## CFrye

Beautiful restore, UpstateNYdude.


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah. Ditto.


----------



## bigblockyeti

That drill looks great, did you have to do anything inside the chuck? I have a bigger Millers Falls that's missing one of the three springs for the jaws and I can't seem to find them anywhere.


----------



## HokieKen

I've made those springs out of music wire. Just find some the same diameter and bend it like the other two.


----------



## bandit571

A few "others" 









Finally got all the stuff out of that $10 Tool Box









Might be a rasp, might be a saw like a rotoZip?
There were two extra long bits, smaller one is 3/16" 
There was a 3/16" bit for a brace. 









And the tap is marked as a 1/4"-28 NF Fine thread. made the third tap I've found in this weekend's haul. 
And…maybe a full index's worth of regular drill bits.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> That drill looks great, did you have to do anything inside the chuck? I have a bigger Millers Falls that s missing one of the three springs for the jaws and I can t seem to find them anywhere.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


Yes, the jaws wouldn't open up when I first got it, I had to apply heat and then make a makeshift spanner to fit the two holes in the top and then crank on it with a pipe wrench wrapped with rubber on the jaws. Once it was opened I just cleaned everything sanded the inside walls and jaws with some 600 grit wet/dry and then they slide pretty good now, sometimes they still stick a little when going back in, but you can just tough a finger to it and they go down.

I usually just find another spring (I save different small springs) of the same diameter wire and just bend it to form. I have also bought some wire on eBay and made them from that too.


----------



## DanKrager

Blasterstumps, I wonder if this device is capable of cutting the interior and exterior diameter of washer style gaskets at the same time. As was suggested, turn the cutter pointing up 180° and insert from the opposite side so both cutters are pointing down. (Although, after looking carefully at it, they may work better extending from the same side. The shape of the cutter will determine this because they will likely be directional.) They can be set to different diameters, and will cut two diameters at once producing a washer style gasket. The lengths of the cutting arms will have to be different, so stack them accordingly to cut on the same plane. And be careful sharpening them so you don't shorten one more than the other.

Would like to have one because it would replace a very expensive collection of Osborne gasket cutters.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

^Makes sense. I may have to try that.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'll give it a try in a bit. I've had the flu for a couple days now so I'm a little slow getting going this morning. When I can get back out in the shop, I will mess around with how the cutters are installed. I have another unusual bit to show as well as soon as I am up to it.
Mike


> Blasterstumps, I wonder if this device is capable of cutting the interior and exterior diameter of washer style gaskets at the same time. As was suggested, turn the cutter pointing up 180° and insert from the opposite side so both cutters are pointing down. (Although, after looking carefully at it, they may work better extending from the same side. The shape of the cutter will determine this because they will likely be directional.) They can be set to different diameters, and will cut two diameters at once producing a washer style gasket. The lengths of the cutting arms will have to be different, so stack them accordingly to cut on the same plane. And be careful sharpening them so you don t shorten one more than the other.
> 
> Would like to have one because it would replace a very expensive collection of Osborne gasket cutters.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


----------



## BlasterStumps

got rid of the little burrs on the cutters using my diamond stone and then a water stone, and finally a strope wheel so very little material removed, just sharpened up. I used the Stanley brace to turn it. The gasket material needed to be held in place during cutting so I used staples to hold it to a scrap of wood. I could see also using spray adhesive or something like that instead. I reset the cutters to give a good sized diameter gasket about 1/4" wide just for this trial cut and gave it a go. Here is what it did:


















I have a couple old Ford tractors (8N and a NAA) that could use some new drain plug gaskets and this tool would surely make some nice ones for them. I'm very glad I asked the forum about this tool. Thanks for all the input. 
Mike


----------



## DanKrager

What he did.

DanK


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here is the other 'bit' for use in a brace drill that I wanted to share a picture of. I'm thinking this one is for deburring the inside ends of pipe after being cut. It has sizes marked on the cutters, 2, 2-1/2, 2-5/8, and 2-3/4". The cutters are very sharp. The bit is about 16" overall. Plumbers bit me thinks. Maybe electricians used them?
Mike


----------



## theoldfart

That ones new to me.
Nice job on the gasket.


----------



## bandit571

Stamped as Ford..









Smaller bit is a normal 1/2" drill bit, the other two are the FORD ones..









Not sure what size these are, other than they a bigger than 1/2". 
And…what does "USAC" stand for?


----------



## DLK

United states auto club


----------



## DLK

Henry Ford built several towns in Michigan's Upper Peninsula to manufacture wood products for his automobiles.
The one near me is Alberta, Michigan about a 45 minute drive south. I suspect the odd bits you have have to do his manufacturing. I don't think its the same Ford associated with the ford pattern bits that Kevin loves, but I could be wrong and I'm still checking.


----------



## theoldfart

As of 1896 Ford Bit Co. did not have any bits like that in its catalogue. Millers Falls bought them in 1916 and continue-ued producing wood bits for both hand tools and machines. I suspect Bandits bits come from Ford Motor Co.


----------



## bandit571

Google-fu found something called M.A. Ford…...still selling bits. 
Still trying to find what size these two are…..


----------



## DLK

> Henry Ford built several towns in Michigan s Upper Peninsula to manufacture wood products for his automobiles.
> The one near me is Alberta, Michigan about a 45 minute drive south. I suspect your two Ford bits have to do his manufacturing. I don t think its the same Ford associated with the ford pattern bits that Kevin loves, but I could be wrong and I'm still checking.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Corrected my previous comment. I just can't type english sometimes. What also makes me think they are ford motor company bits is the script font used.


----------



## theoldfart

I think your right Don, it does not match the local Ford Bit Co .


----------



## bandit571

Of the two "extra" braces I bought last week…..the "Jobsmart" POS is on the way to the landfill….as for the other 









10" sweep, has only a "JAPAN" stamp on it…









Chuck and ratchet work great. Might be worth keeping around…


----------



## realcowtown_eric

blasterstumps….that stumpifying "whatsit" image image takes me back 25 or was it 30 years ago to upstate NY. fellla had a perpetual tool market by the side of the road and there was that self-same bitstock tool. Told me If I guessed what it was, I could have it for free.

That was a motivator, but try as I might in my neophyte oldtool knowledge I failed. He ended up giving it to me for free anyway.

Well what is it you might ask. If you remember back in the day when flush toilets came in, the tank was frequently hung on the wall above the terlet (quoting Archie Bunker) and they apparently had the flapper valve that lingers to this day, but the seat of the flapper valve was often wooden or (guessing) maybe lead, and this buddy, is a plumbers tool used to clean up the valve seat!

I still have mine….only I got the original leatherete case too!

Mystery solved.

How rare is it? never seen another, but then I haven't gone looking either, even though I have been know to pick up "chicago specialty" plumbing tools (they sold some funky hack-saws) but that's another story

Eric in Calgary


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have the leatherette case for this one I have too. Although it is a bit tattered. Thanks for the information on the tool. Always nice to know what these old tools were for. Thanks again,
Mike


----------



## bandit571

$3…









Means two drill bits to almost complete a set….and a Yankee #35









Bits are nicely marked…..









The Yankee has 6 patent dates, handle was never painted red









And does not have the "return" spring. North Brothers


----------



## bandit571

Almost a complete set?









Largest size is 1/2"...longest is a 3/8" size….I think. Rest go from 1/4" on down 









Might work very nicely in my Keen Kutter 6" brace.

Turns out, I had a Stanley Yankee…









But it is a #35A….with spring. I guess the #35 was without a spring? Slight size differences..









Stanley was a hair larger….?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Picked this drill up at a yard sale today. It was missing the thumbscrew, so I improvised. I wiped it down with mineral spirits and did a little cleaning off of some paint speckles then some light oil. Maybe I will sharpen my old bits now to use with it.


----------



## bandit571

On the way home yesterday…actually found ONE Antique store open…..









This was sitting out on the "front porch" amongst a couple other drills…price?









$9.99 + Tax…..

Stanley 6" sweep brace. Most of the plating is gone….will try to get it shined back up….might have been worth the stop?


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'd like to see the brace drill this 9/16" twist bit fits in. It has a tang that tapers from about 8 mm to about 18 mm. The tang is about as big as the chuck of this brace. I bet you would have to have Popeye arms to turn that brace drill. : )

The other two bits have the size of tang I'm used to seeing that fit brace drill.


----------



## WayneC

Nice Spofford brace. Fray?


----------



## BlasterStumps

It could be, I don't really know. The only mark on it is a 107. It was a yard sale find.



> Nice Spofford brace. Fray?
> 
> - WayneC


----------



## Tim457

> I d like to see the brace drill this 9/16" twist bit fits in. It has a tang that tapers from about 8 mm to about 18 mm. The tang is about as big as the chuck of this brace. I bet you would have to have Popeye arms to turn that brace drill. : )
> - BlasterStumps


You made me curious so I checked my Yankee 2100 with calipers and the opening measured almost exactly 17 mm, so if the tang wasn't any bigger than that it would fit. Turning that bit in wood wouldn't be any harder than another 9/16" bit with a smaller tang, but turning a 9/16" bit in steel with a brace would take some muscle. Most I've done is a 1/2 bit in mild steel.


----------



## kwigly

I was pleased to find this interesting old corner brace at a local estate auction. It has a Millers Falls chuck. After a heap of internet searching I've identified it as a McClellan patent brace (Pat 585531 June29 1897) but it has a different handle configuration than I've been able to discover anywhere else, which makes it even more interesting. 
Anyone else seen one like this ?
It seems to operate fine, but is a little more awkward to use than the regular shaped Stanley&MillersFalls corner braces.


----------



## Bertha

Kwigly, that's a phenomenal find. If you don't like using it, make it into a dinner bell!


----------



## DLK

New in the shop:





































Yes *RJ 101*s won uncontested on ebay. They seem sharp and maybe unused.

I have a box of RJ 100s, and a box of Irwin's.

I thought my life was complete, but Kevin says now I need a set of Ford's.


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, they look good Don. After you get the Fords we'll work on some Pierce ships bores!

Get some sleep yet?


----------



## DLK

Some but still dead tired. Visitor comes tomorrow for 5 days of fishing so wanted to get this posted tonight. Then we pack up another trailer for the move down state. I'll take out more tool fund money.


----------



## Bertha

Hey Prof, who makes that holdfast on the left? The other curved thing looks like something I need. Do I need one of those? Whatever it is?


----------



## ToddJB

My money is on dust pan.


----------



## TheFridge

Good call Todd. Yeah. Definitely need one or two of those don


----------



## DLK

You guys make me laugh.

*Bertha* thats a Holdfast by Gramercy Tools and I recommend it. It was on a new cork sanding block and was being used to support the lid of the 101s drill box.

*ToddJB* is correct that is a Dust pan. An Aluminum Alloy HEAVY-DUTY dust pan, MFG by Guetle Die & Stamping Co. Mansfield Ohio. The sticker on it says I paid $15 and I think I bought it in a cracker barrel 20 years ago. But its aluminum so I can't remember. 

*TheFridge*, yes we have seen your shop and you definitely need one.


----------



## TheFridge

Yeah don  dust pans are like pencils and flathead screwdrivers. You need one at every work location in the shop.


----------



## theoldfart

Dons new bits got me motivated to pull out all my brace related stuff for a family photo. I feel like I don't have enough drilly type things!


----------



## CFrye

Nice family portrait, Kevin! Um, where are the braces?


----------



## DanKrager

You're the one that has RJ 100s AND RJ 101s, yes? Not enough drilly thingys….ppssshhaw!

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, yup. Plus Fords, oh and Pierce and C E Jennings 

BTW, have two 1/2" for you!


----------



## theoldfart

Candy, here you go.


----------



## DanKrager

TOF, you're gonna see something similar here, only worse. Need some ideas.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

"Need some ideas." ???


----------



## bandit571

Maybe?









Hang them high?









Or, let them lean back in a til?


----------



## CFrye

Kevin, thanks. They do look a might crowded. 
Dan…


----------



## bandit571

Show off…LOL


----------



## theoldfart

Candy, Dan, the braces in my chest are my better ones. The rest are hanging from the cross supports on my cellar ceiling.

Edit: Then there is this in my "portable" chest


----------



## DanKrager

Need ideas about tills and storage of all this stuff! What I had originally planned is far too small and generally inadequate. Just have to take some time to think about it, but ideas could be helpful. Bandit has floor joists to hang them on, but I'm not 10' tall, so that won't work here. Then there are the breast drills… Hoo boy. another shop coming up. They don't fold compactly for storage either. And basic premises of this shop are modular and somewhat portable. Portable can include help from the hydraulic brothers. 
Let's start here:
1. How many brace sizes are there? 
2. How many types of brace tools are there? I know it's a lot but it's still finite. I'm just thinking of general types, like screw driver bits, drill bits wood (Jennings 100 and 101 sets and extra large. spoon bits, gimlets) and metal bits, plug cutters, tenon cutters, etc. I'll just have to map it out with some kind of outline.
3. How to store these efficiently, leaving room for items not in inventory?

I'm not thinking of multiples here, just one of a kind for using. In a custom shop, one doesn't limit to a focus on a specialty. Who knows when someone might ask me to build a barrel or hoop a wheel? LOL! You laugh but my portfolio includes two complete cannon trails, one for Confederate and one for Union. (No I'm not that old, goofball! Re-enactment groups) There's a long story to go with that!

DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Candy, you've been busy shopping! That's quite a collection!

And I just knew Bandit would repost his ceiling pictures! LOL!

Thanks, "guys" Keep 'em coming.

DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Oh, and my pet peeve is having to move tools to get to the one I want! e.g. TOF has to move three tools to get at one of the egg beaters. But maybe that is the compromise I have to make to get efficiency of space?

That's a powerful big coping saw there, TOF.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan,
1. 6", 8", 10",12",14", 16". Then there are the Wimbles(spelling?) Oh, then the dedicated braces with Hollow Auger Tenon makers on them…...

2. A Bazillion!

3" Dedicated boring cabinet, not to be confused with a cabinet that is boring. 

Does this help?


----------



## theoldfart

That saw is worth its weight in gold for clearing dovetail waste on wide pieces.


----------



## WayneC

> Dan,
> 1. 6", 8", 10",12",14", 16". Then there are the Wimbles(spelling?) Oh, then the dedicated braces with Hollow Auger Tenon makers on them…...
> 
> 2. A Bazillion!
> 
> 3" Dedicated boring cabinet, not to be confused with a cabinet that is boring.
> 
> Does this help?
> 
> - theoldfart


I have an English 5" and I've seen a custom made 20" brace.

Braces were also used by machinists and plumbers. I've seen specialized attachments for them such as reamers, integrated wrenches, dies for threading things. Leather and gasket cutters, nut drivers, list goes on and on.

I have a bunch in the ceiling like bandit and my good braces in the tool chest but need to make a cabinet specifically for them. I have examples of all the sizes Kevin listed including the whimble and the dedicated hollow auger.


----------



## theoldfart

I didn't try to make an all inclusive list. I possibly have a set of dies brace bits on there way, there is a gasket cutter in that chest somewhere. I've resisted the lure of nut drivers so far!


----------



## DanKrager

The nut drivers are usually square,so they would be good for your ancient wagons, Model T's, Planet Jrs. etc. Does that take some of the lure off? 

Some good things so far. Outline started.

DanK


----------



## WayneC

Lee Valley has a couple of nice attachments for braces.

Note C & D.


----------



## theoldfart

D would be most useful for me. I have several slotted/phillips/square bits and use them frequently. I was surprised how easy it was to tear off the heads of screws :-(


----------



## WayneC

I keep C in a 6" bit brace.


----------



## theoldfart

Makes sense.


----------



## kwigly

you could have (need!) a selection of different types of bits besides the usual spiral bits from the different manufacturers, (with spurs or no spurs or gedge pattern) e g centre bits, taper reamers, shell and nose bits, nut drivers, screwdrivers including split nut drivers, gimlets, countersinks, forstners, metal drills, etc










And a few accessories such as doweling bits, spoke pointers, chain drills, angle driller…










For your brace selection, (assuming you want to stay with metal braces and not venture into the many wooden brace varieties) you can select from a wide variety of ratcheting chucks activated by various knobs, slides, levers etc, or even a slide lock chuck









or if you fancy something different from the usual shell chuck









And this is without even venturing into different jaw styles inside the brace chuck, or the various styles of corner braces, or specialty braces for nut driving, taps, etc

You should maybe be a bit cautious about venturing down the rabbit hole of a "complete" set of braces and bits


----------



## DanKrager

> You should maybe be a bit cautious about venturing down the rabbit hole of a "complete" set of braces and bits
> - kwigly


kwigly…get with the program! You're supposed to be an enabler! LOL.

This is so much fun to see all the different stuff you guys have and know about. kwigly did some artsy photos! There is still stuff coming up I've never seen before. And I've got some things not yet shown. This list is going to be HUGE!

DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Combo, I missed that those Jennings were 101's. I'm SO jealous. Been looking for a clean set like that for a long time. I would have contested that sale had I been watching. Good catch, and good to see them in a good home.
DanK


----------



## DLK

Dan thank you so much for being asleep at the switch. I too have been looking for 101s for a long time and was indeed surprised there was no other bidders. They were won at $100 (free shipping). I could have easily been out bid as I think I would have not bid more. So I wonder if no one out there realized the rarity of such a find. You can certainly get a box of clean 100s for less. Original listing.

Packing was not perfect and I have had to make a small inconsequential repair to the box exterior. Interior the bits were allowed to slip and opposite each snail there is a small hole into but not through the box side which I may consider filling. The shipper did try though. The box was encased in styrofoam and there was bubble wrapped squeed in on top of the bits, but nothing between the snails and the walls.

Interestingly someone had written in pencil the bit size on each tray slot for the bit that goes into the slot. A good idea I had not seen in my box of 100s.


----------



## kwigly

"And I ve got some things not yet shown. DanK "

[/QUOTE]

Show us Dan ! 
(or maybe not. Remember Anthony Weiner)


----------



## DanKrager

My stuff is chaos in a box. Well, several big boxes. I just don't have the time and energy to spread it all out right now. Working as hard as I can clearing brush and getting garage and bonus room winter ready. That chaos wears on my OCD to have things organized, so I've been dreaming ahead to generate useful storage. Ideas coming here have helped. Thank you.

DanK


----------



## OleGrump

I shoulda KNOWN this thread existed, but just kinda stumbled onto it, and been REALLY enjoying following it. But NOW, I gotta get out in the shop in the next couple of days to start taking photos of my "Boring Collection". I just recently unpacked about 10 braces and hung them in the rafters….you know…. "for now"...... LOL. In addition to four sets of auger bits (up to the usual size of 16) I also have a box of assorted loose auger bits, I also have a grouping of shell bits and others I bought on line from a guy in England. And an array of center bits. I'll get to posting some photos as soon as time and the home PC allow. (Damned thing keeps "updating" whenever I want to use it….New-fangled piece of…...)
One of my auger sets is in one of those nice stand-up boxes with the flip down lid. The other three are in rolls. (one of these was Pop-pop's) My question to the group here is if any of you has made a box or cabinet to store your brace bits, other than a board with holes in it? I'd be interested to see it if anyone has. Keep them braces twistin' !!!


----------



## bandit571

Put these two to use, today..









Millers Falls 6" and a Stanley 6" brace, mainly for pilot holes and such..









One has the drill bit, one has the countersink.


----------



## DanKrager

Here's what I've accumulated so far for general types (not brands) of hand brace functionality.

Braces

 miniature (custom)
 6"
 8"
 10"
 12"
 14"
 16"
 Whimble
 Chain feed
 Wooden
 non ratcheting
 angle 
 Corner
 Corner levered
 MF182 combo

Bits

 Jennings 100, 101
 Irwin
 Bell hanger
 Parallel grain, no pilot
 Center bits
 Dowel bits
 spoon bits and tapers
 gimlets
 Tapered screw w countersink bits
 socket adapter driver
 hex bit holder
 screw drivers
 nut drivers
 tenoners -hollow augers
 pointers
 countersinks
 reamers, metal
 reamers, wood
 twist drills for metal
 gasket washer cutter
 plug cutters

Miscellaneous

 depth stop

What am I missing so far? Google fu does not produce such a list, and I think it is a nice lubricant for those on the slippery slope of getting "full functionality" in a hand shop. It can help you create a shopping list for rust hunting….

DanK


----------



## WayneC

I have all the sizes above plus an English 5".

Bit extensions I don't see.

I've seen a couple of 20" custom braces.

Chains are for drilling round stock such as pipes.

There are Monkey wrench / brace combinations.

Medical braces for drilling bones/skulls


----------



## WayneC

The 5" is a manufactured brace. I think Stanley may make a 5" as well. Also from the UK.


----------



## CFrye

Eggbeaters?
Need more info and pictures of anything designated 'miniature', Dan! Please 
I thought there was a 4" brace?


----------



## WayneC

Jim Bode has one…

Stanley #73 5 inch Brace.


----------



## CFrye

Jim Bode currently has *15* PAGES of miniatures. I can spend a lot of time there wishing I could spend some money!


----------



## DLK

I did not see Forstner auger bits on your list.


----------



## DanKrager

Thanks for the additions. When matured some more, I'm planning on putting this list on my web site blog so it can be downloaded for reference. When building a till, it's good to have a checklist of what you might eventually someday on the bucket list when there's enough spare cash put in it. I'm realizing that there needs to be a sizeable till for each type of woodworking hand tool it seems. And unless you work ONLY in your shop, a portable arrangement is nice for occasional job site work. I guess that would be reinventing the wheel because a lot of resources in big companies have been devoted to that notion for power hand tools, e.g. Festool.

Candy, I'm a fan of miniatures, but I couldn't find the pages of miniatures on Bode's site. ???

So next up will be till designs to hold all (or most) of these brace items. There probably are a lot of nice ones already built.

DanK


----------



## bandit571

Beam drills?









There were a few these at that auction, as well..









See anything?


----------



## DanKrager

Bandit, I thought about including beam drills, but they are sort of in a class by themselves. Not something you would put in a till.

Is that brace (middle left) one of the rare big ones?

DanK


----------



## WayneC

Doweling Jigs










Angular bit Stock


----------



## CFrye

Here, Dan, just type 'miniature' in the search window.


----------



## bandit571

It was at least a 14", may have been a 16"


----------



## DanKrager

Thank you Candy. The search seemed to work this time. Amazing stuff!

"Angular bit stock" is just listed as "angle" under braces. Is that an official name for it?

DanK


----------



## DLK

> Thanks for the additions. When matured some more, I m planning on putting this list on my web site blog so it can be downloaded for reference.
> 
> - Dan Krager


Please post a link when have it written.


----------



## kwigly

Dan, old catalogs are a good source for listing what was available. Some scans from a c1936 S Tyzack& Son catalogue
note English braces made in 5" and 7" sweeps









note top of p39 "spoon" "nose" and "shell" bits [spoon and nose bits could become shell bits when the ends got worn down by sharpening)









p40, note the "screw nose centre bits" near the top, and the "Gedge's pattern" at the bottom









p41, "solid wing auger bits" 









The 1888 Wm P Walters Sons catalog has 10 pages of auger bits and bit sets with a few additional varieties, and several pages of braces down to 4" sweep (but that's for "piano makers")


----------



## DLK

Those are cool pages filled with assume looking bits.


----------



## WayneC

From the catalogs above, a saw split nut driver would be good to single out. I have a good majority of these tools if you want photographs on any of it.


----------



## DanKrager

Is it appropriate on this thread to talk about tills for storing these vintage drills? I've been looking for till ideas and either my google-fu is not strong or there is a severe dearth of till construction for hand drilling tools and accessories. My list of what one might put in such a till is near maturity and I will post a sharable version of it on my web site and put a link here. This list was developed to prepare for building a till to hold a well stocked woodworking, one of each kind, un-powered hand tool, user collection based on the very basic operation of making and modifying holes in wood, aka drilling. It is intended to be generic, not brand specific, with a users choice in subcategories of style e.g. corner braces vary widely. Many of these items come in various sizes, the range of which is to be determined by what is available. With this much stuff, it's going to take a clever design to keep it compact, tools readily at hand, and somewhat portable. Adding to the challenge for my shop is that the tills should be modular and adjustable for changes. So I'm beginning to work on designs for such a till and due to the nature of the beast there are going to be some tall challenges to come up with a "classic" design. I've got a few ideas to deal with wasted space that I see in the tills I've encountered so far. Any ideas you have or can link to are appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Thanks, Wayne. I may call upon that offer later as the design matures. I have a good many things on this list myself, so …
DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Bandit started a thread for brace tills. So I'm going to post things about this till over there.

DanK


----------



## kwigly

Got some nose bit drillss at an estate auction today









these are the larger size, 1/2" to 1" dia, T auger drills, and when cleaned up they will complement the smaller nose bits that I already have which fit in my brace (although I'm missing a few sizes)

Wayne, Yes, we like pictures !

Dan, I think you'll need several tills to accommodate the different types of braces, eggbeaters, breast drills, augers, etc. (Perhaps best approached on a type by type basis)
For bits, the boxed sets that manufacturers sold are nice, 
or maybe you could make a fold out holder based on the design concept used for indexed metal drills, 
or use a tray system like a machinist's chest…..
(my current collection of miscellaneous containers, boxes, rolls, and piles, is likely not what you're looking for)


----------



## kwigly

Brad has a nice design for wall storage of a working set of drills
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/95842
or if your more into eggbeaters
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/31/e8/0a/31e80acd4ec13fa15a7b7b62a967b59f.jpg


----------



## DanKrager

Thanks for those links kwigly. The first one is very close to where I'm headed with my design. What he's done is very neat and workable. I can only hope that I can achieve that! I'll add "nose bits" to my list.

I'm not planning a blog, but I'll check in on the other thread from time to time. Perhaps the next post can be an image of the design after several iterations.

I've put the downloadable document on my web site.

DanK


----------



## OleGrump

Was going through my "collection"/stash/hoard/whatever of braces the other day TRYING to get ready to take some photos to post. While some of the usual suspects are represented, Millers Falls, Stanley, Mohawk and the like, I have one which is only marked "BELL GEM" on the chuck and "Made in USA" on the upper arm of the sweep. This brace does have a ratcheting chuck. Usually those made for "Ma Bell" are marked "Bell System". Has anyone here heard of a BELL GEM….???


----------



## WayneC

I've not seen one. Do you have photos of the brace?


----------



## bandit571

This arrived a few weeks ago….









No name on it, no bits in the handle…









Might need a fresh coat of RED paint?

No idea who made this one..


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here is another long-awaited acquisition for my assembly of traditional hand tools. It is a GP 379 with what I believe is a cocobolo handle. I have cleaned it a little and oiled it and that is all I will do to it. I have had an eye out for one of these drills for a number of years.


----------



## WayneC

We need to start a list of good quality hand drills. I've done one for braces.


----------



## OleGrump

It's time for me to contribute to the thread, SO, I'm gonna start. Here are some unmarked braces with socket type chucks. I got the one on the left at a flea market while on a visit to Indiana. Don't know if it's a child's toy or just a pretty small brace. I keep my Grandfather's rose counter sink chucked in it.! BTW, the one on the right is known as a "Ladies Ball Brace". I don't WANT to know why…







!
Speaking of a child's toy brace, how about this:


















I know you're asking "Where's his Spofford chuck?" Right here, along with the first brace which was mine. An unmarked, non-ratcheting job I got for $3 at a flea market in 1982.









To be continued:


----------



## OleGrump

Here are the braces which belonged to my grandfathers. On top is Pop-pop's MF 2-104. Below is my other grandfather's "Mohawk Shellbourne" (no other markings) The Mohawk was the second brace to become my very own.









Here is another Mohawk Shellbourne, model 1910 which belonged to a good friend of mine, now deceased. Beneath it is a Stanley 945, from a thrift store for $5.









The brace I bought for my "Y2K Tool Kit" of traditional style tools available in 1999. MF 1333 and 731 are branded on the head.









To be continued:


----------



## OleGrump

If I had read this in GOOD light, the CORRECT name stamped on it is BLUE GEM. Most I've seen are painted blue. This came with a battered natural wood finish.


















This type of auger handle has been posted before, but damn, they're cool! I keep a 24" bit extension chucked in mine, so you can use it while you stand on the work.


















To be continued:


----------



## OleGrump

Now for a couple of interesting braces. This one is unmarked, except for a former owner's initials. I've never seen this type of ratchet gear shift mechanism before. You know I HAD to have it:



























BTW, This has an 8" sweep. Any info on who might have made it would be appreciated. Most interesting (?) of the bunch saved for last (for now) Check out THIS brace. Blacksmith made, oak handle and head.



























This baby has a 12" sweep, and accepts just about everything I've chucked in it. 'Nother HAD to have.


----------



## OleGrump

I know there are at least two other braces which have eluded capture on camera. When they're corralled again, I'll be posting their photos as well. The next "when I get a chance", I'll have to start posting hand drills. Then there are a few breast drills. Possibly bits later on, and a couple of adjustable augers and a spoke pointer. Whew! Y'all are making me get BUSY documenting the hoard, uh, "Collection".......


----------



## DanKrager

That's some cool stuff there, Grump! I've never seen some of these types.

DanK


----------



## OleGrump

Thank you, Dan. I have a few friends who like to spend a little time in the garage when they're visiting so they can check out all the "Cool old stuff in there…." Drives the wife nuts. (Side benefit…..???.... 
I found a small mark on the Spofford chuck brace that says "Bridgeport 122". The all iron brace has a pretty small socket type chuck, so it's really only good for small twist bits, countersinks or screwdriver bits. But I thought I should have one…....
The "Ladies Ball Brace" refers of course to the spherical handle, but I've never figured out why they call it a "Ladies Brace", unless because of it's comparatively small size. But I couldn't resist the play on words.
Now I just need to get a chance to take pix of some other stuff !


----------



## OleGrump

I posted this SOMEWHERE on LJ, on one of the threads, but this is a good place share the information again. We hear the "Power-Toolers" scoff and whine about the relevance of braces and bits in "Today's World"..... (You know, those pressed Khakis and designer denim shirts in the woodshop types…..)
While there are LOTS of things to be said about the subject, but here is my most recent example. I needed to add a couple of extra holes in the top of my Workmate 400 and an attachment I was making. But the blasted thing has holes that are "50 MM". (Millimeters are for firearms, NOT for the woodshop in MY house…) None of the spade bits I own are anywhere close. BUT, a number 13 auger bit is just VERY slightly larger, and still holds the stops in place snugly. Nice and neat. Just shows they can't do EVERYTHING just using power tools alone…...


----------



## bandit571

Older picture..









The "User" braces….14" to 6"....mixed bag…


----------



## OleGrump

Addenda to the photos of my braces: 1. I took some Scotchbrite to the brace with the funky spring loaded gear shift levers. Still no maker's name, but DID find this information printed rather small "PAT DEC 30 1884". Maybe I can find out a bit more with some research.
Second, the wrong photo came through under the caption of the BLUE GEM brace. Here is the correct photo:









Third, the photos for the unmarked "socket chuck" braces did not post to the thread, you have to click the link. Her they are so you can see them more easily:









and their chucks:









That should fix the goofs from yesterday. Will try to root out the other couple of errant braces and will get on to taking pics of other Boring Items.


----------



## OleGrump

Since we talk about ways to hang braces, what about a way to hang it while you're working? You have to set the brace down periodically. Why not keep it handy:









Got five of these tool hangers in a pack from my local Dollar Store. Attached two of them to rear top supports of my Workmate. Come in very handy. Might start hanging my braces along the rafters with these hooks.


----------



## DanKrager

Good idea, Grump. Could you get a better picture, please? Little higher and in focus? I know it's Friday and all, but…

DanK


----------



## kwigly

Nice collection Grump,
The ratchet button shift brace looks a bit like the Peck Stow & Wilcox brace shown at sydnassloot.com (a great site for brace identifying) see http://www.sydnassloot.com/Brace/PSW.htm where the patent is also identified as Pat no 309876


----------



## OleGrump

We'll try this again. Here is the Dollar Tree "Tool Hanger", sold in packs of five:









And attached to the Workmate with machine screws and nuts:









The Stanley 945, safely hung where it won't fall, but still ready for use:









Sorry about the fuzzy photos earlier. Dang digital camera eats batteries like peanuts. New-fangledy contraption!


----------



## OleGrump

Since I was retaking the photos above, thought I'd go ahead and take these:









The drills on the Left is are Craftsman. The unmarked one in the middle is Pop-pop's. The drill second from the right is unmarked. Drill on the right is Miller's Falls. Note the family resemblance between the larger Craftsman and the MF:









The Craftsman has a stationary handle on the reverse side, but the MF has a holder for a depth stop:









Guess I'll have to work on making a depth stop for it. This is my favorite hand drill. (Don't tell Pop-pop) BTW, The smaller Craftsman has washer under the crank handle someone made by drilling a hole in a penny, which I have left intact.


----------



## OleGrump

Ah-Ha! One of the errant braces has shown up. Marked 

The chuck is a little strange. Works for most things, but won't accept a tenon cutter (or Hollow Auger)


  






But hey, it goes with my collection of Craftsman (but made by "name brand" company) tools….


----------



## OleGrump

RE: The "Ratcheting Brace", you are VERY correct, Sir! I googled the patent date this morning, and got it on the very first link. The patent was submitted by one Mr. CASPAR RIESING, of Plantsville, CT, but it was awarded to Peck, Stow & Wilcox Co, (of Plantsville, CT) for whom Mr. Riesing apparently worked.
So, I now know that this brace was made by PEXTO. I have also learned where the name "Pexto" originated. An amalgamation of the names Peck and Stow. That's a lot of learnin' for a Saturday…..Too much "book learnin', my head hurts….. but I'm glad I was able to find out these things. I always thought "PEXTO" sounded more like gasoline or motor oil than woodworking tools, but NOW I know how they came up with it.


----------



## BlasterStumps

OleGrump is that a two-speed MF you show? If so, I think the boss sticking out is for a friction roller that has gone missing. 
Mike


----------



## BlasterStumps

This 8" brace is a Fray & Pig best I can tell. I can see the name Fray and I can read Spofford Nov 1, 1859. It has an 8 on the underside of the cast handle. Lovely smooth little thing to drill with.


----------



## BlasterStumps

sorry, should have been Fray & Pigg. 
Mike


----------



## OleGrump

Mike, the MF is a single speed. At one time I thought this was one of those drills where you could mount the large wheel on either side, so I could mount the large wheel opposite from the depth stop holder. Turns out that it's a single mounting post type. I have a vague memory of seeing a two rod depth stop somewhere, but can't remember where. I'll do some research on it when I can….. Maybe an old Sears & Roebuck catalog….. ???
But, as you've mentioned it, the smaller unmarked hand drill to the left of the MF (also a single speed) does have a nifty little knurled knob device on the inside of the large wheel which one can adjust to help it run true. I'll try to get a photo of that soon.


----------



## bandit571

Similar to this?









I still haven't figured out who made this one..









Clues?


----------



## kwigly

Grump,
Millers Falls type adjusters to true the gear wheel rotation, similar to your drills
the adjustable friction roller; http://oldtoolheaven.com/hand_drills/drillimg/AdjFrictionRoller.jpg
the adjustable screw type; http://oldtoolheaven.com/hand_drills/drillimg/Equalizerbring.jpg

[lots more details of Millers Falls eggbeaters on this web site http://oldtoolheaven.com/hand_drills/drill.htm (also braces, breast drills, push drills and all tools Millers Falls at http://oldtoolheaven.com/ )]


----------



## OleGrump

RE: The Millers Falls: THAT'S IT !!! You are so very right. I've never seen a hand drill will a roller bearing on the OUTSIDE of the large wheel. How wrong I was…..I shoulda done some research afore puttin' my foot in my mouth and making an assumption.
RE: The smaller unmarked hand drill, the adjustment looks like this:









It's hard to see, but it









rubs against the top part of the large wheel like this:

I "think" this knob is a replacement. It doesn't match, and it falls off sometimes.


----------



## OleGrump

While my camera batteries were charged, I took these: This my my very first hand drill I bought brand new in 1982. It's a Stanley, and measures 10 1/4 inches long:









Single drive gear









Somewhat similar is from my "Y2K Traditional Tool Kit" , bought in 1999, by Anant of India. 12 1/4 inches long. Nice heavy casting. Twin drive gears. Works MUCH better than I had actually expected.


















"Be careful what you wish for, you just might GET it….." OK, I asked a guy at a flea market if he had any "old Craftsman woodworking tools"..... THIS is what he produced:


















Only marked "Sears". 8 inches long. Lives with my general use wood tools. Great for drilling pilot holes or other small chores.


----------



## OleGrump

RE: The photos of the three unmarked braces with the socket style chucks. I was informed yesterday by one of my toy train collecting friends (My other hobby which tends to irk "The Boss".....) that the brace on the left hand side of the photo was very likely made by the A.C. Gilbert Co, as part of the tool line they produced for their "Big Boy" tool chests. (Yes. the SAME A.C. Gilbert who gave us the Erector Set.) The brace would have come with a few twist drill bits having brace tangs to fit the chuck.
Ah for the good old days when kids COULD have tool chests with REAL tools so they could LEARN how to use them, before some "genius" decided that they were "dangerous"......


----------



## BlasterStumps

OleGrump, I for one would love to see pictures of your trains. I don't collect but find them interesting. 
Mike


----------



## OleGrump

Yesterday I met up with a long-time friend who is getting ready to retire out of state. Over lunch he said he had some old tools he wanted me to have, because he knows I like them and he didn't want to see them go to the dump. Sadly, he added that due to his health, he'd never use them again. Here are some of what he gave me:









The hand drill is a Stanley Defiance with the label still intact on the large wheel. It looks like the number 220 and "Made In USA" stamped on the crank. The breast drill is a Fulton (aka Sargent, made for Sears & Roebuck) two speed model. The brace was pretty blackened until I took a wire wheel to it. It's a Millers Falls Co No 32. The head won't turn, but I'll disassemble it and see what I can do about that.
The Fulton has the simplest method of switching gears possible:









You just unscrew the knob, remove the large gear, push the upper handle up or down to meet the desired hole, and reattach the large wheel.









I also got a pair of push drills. The left one is Craftsman, the right is Millers Falls. (I will clean up the handle on the MF:


----------



## OleGrump

The upper handle of the Fulton didn't attach. It looks like this:









You line up the hole in the handle with the hole you want and put the screw right through it….... Pretty simple, but it does work.
Since my friend currently lives 10 minutes from a Harbor Freight, so you know I HAD to spend some time (and money) there. Of interest to followers of this thread:









About $12 for the set, Bits are four inches long, and come in sizes 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4 and 1" diameters. I chucked them up in the Fulton and tried them out. Worked just fine. 
I often hear complaints from people who have post drills or hand cranked drill presses that regular sized bits can sometimes be too long when working on certain projects. These bits may be the answer.


----------



## OleGrump

Mike, I saw your reply. Will see what I can do about sending you some toy train pix privately. I'll limit the photos to some postwar trains as those are the ones most people can remember.


----------



## Bertha

Grump, I'd love to see the trains, too. I've got a colleague who is nuts about them. I've always thought they were really cool. There's a fair in Ripley WV this weekend that's supposed to display an old steamer.


----------



## bandit571

Trains?









These might be a bit small…


----------



## WayneC

If you ever make it to Sacramento, we have an awesome rail museum here.


----------



## DLK

There is a pretty cool model train exhibit in Scottsdale, Az. It's in Railroad park.
According to the wikipedia article: McCormick-Stillman Railroad Park is a 40-acre (16 ha) railroad park located in Scottsdale, Arizona. It features a 15 in (381 mm) gauge railroad, a Magma Arizona Railroad locomotive, a railroad museum, three model railroad clubs and a 7 1⁄2 in (190.5 mm) gauge live steam railroad. But when I visited all I did was sit outside and do mathematics.


----------



## bandit571

Need a "workout"?









What my Grandpa Lew did for a living…back in 1905….Marion Lewis Newman, is the one in front, on the right.


----------



## theoldfart

I'm putting this post here first before opening it up to other threads. We are in the process of moving to the left coast and I have to thin the herd.


















If any of these interest any of you please pm me. Don't wait to long, SWMBO is having the second of many tag sales and she is eyeing my stash!

On another note I just scored a Millers Falls #21 bench drill for ten bucks! Pictures to follow

Edit: All of the drills are MF


----------



## bandit571

Already have a MF #120…..

Why change bits…when you can just change drill and all?










Almost like that Yankee Guy with all the routers?


----------



## DLK

On your way from the right coast to the left coast, please stop in at the top coast.


----------



## theoldfart

Workin' on it. It will depend on how much I have to carry!


----------



## DLK

Found this interesting article on making center bits. It does not look too difficult or require too many smith tools.


----------



## theoldfart

I somewhat cleaned up the bench drill I picked up last weekend. It's a Millers Falls #21. Most everything was seized but not beyond repair.









Everything moves smoothly and freely now except for the chuck. It will take a bath in a 50/50 ATF/Acetone solution. I need to rig up a table for it. Eventually I hope to find the original vise.










So now I have a big and a small. Next up is a medium! I want a Yankee 1005 or 1003.


----------



## CFrye

That is cool, Kevin!


----------



## Tim457

I do so want one of those Kevin. I've never seen one in the wild.


----------



## DLK

I'm on the hunt for a Hollow Auger and pointer. Any recommendations? What maker should I look for?


----------



## theoldfart

A A Woods on the hollow auger, most any pointer will work. There are multiple sizes on the pointer. Try to get one that has an adjustable shaft for depth settings.


----------



## DLK

Thanks Kevin. There seems to be quite the variety of hollow augers. I almost pulled the trigger on a EC Stearns. Got my eye on a A.A. Woods now.


----------



## WayneC

Make sure it has the cutter. They also make dedicated ones where the auger is attached to the brace.


----------



## theoldfart

I have a Stearns as well, the Woods seems to work better.


----------



## DLK

Thanks for the advice Wayne.


----------



## WayneC

> Thanks for the advice Wayne.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I learned that one the hard way. LOL.

I have at least 3 plus a dedicated brace model.

My brace model is similar to

https://www.jimbodetools.com/products/fine-adjustable-millers-falls-hollow-auger-brace-with-depth-stop-61300


----------



## DLK

Is the brace model better?


----------



## bandit571

$5 at a Barn Sale today…









Wonder IF I could return it to Sears?









Only had two drill bits with it..









Looks a little bit like a Millers Falls made drill? 
Can I keep it?


----------



## bandit571

This may have been a Millers Falls No.78? Made to be sold at Sears in the 70s? Haven't seen any by Stanley that look like this. Gray enamel is a M-F sort of thing. Drill bits looked almost like new….no rust. A drop or two in the oiler holes, and it runs great!.


----------



## bandit571

Ok, most of the eggbeaters have been hung in the til…









All but one..









I don't think it would fit the space….brace til is a bit full…









Still have three others to add to it…..push drill?









May have a drawer to hide these in…until I need a few small pilot holes made….


----------



## Slyy

What's anyone got ideas on run-out on an egg beater? Picked up a Millers Falls No 2 from before 1929, but looks to have a noticeable amount of run out on the end of the spindle.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

> What s anyone got ideas on run-out on an egg beater? Picked up a Millers Falls No 2 from before 1929, but looks to have a noticeable amount of run out on the end of the spindle.
> 
> - Slyy


Is the shaft it threads onto bent at all or are the jaws of the chuck actually closing in sync and tightly?


----------



## bandit571

Recent rust hunt items….









All needed a bit of clean up…









Name on the crank handle..Defiance/ made in USA


















three #4s and a #5…..still looking for the maker's marks….
Chisel? Clearcut 1-1/4" Firmer…..


----------



## DLK

Help please. I have an A.A. woods hollow auger. I think I need some instruction. Do I make several passes slowly advancing the cutter until the desired tenon diameter is achieved. Also does this look right or has the cutter been sharpened incorrectly?


----------



## theoldfart

The cutter is way too sharp! Here is what Jin Zimmer has to say
" If you are having trouble with using the A. A. Wood Hollow Auger, the new original cutters have the point ground off, so then the cutter can get close to, and mostly parallel to, the throat, and the point doesn't stick out. Looking at the picture, the cutter is not ground completely parallel - it's a little wider at the outside, maybe for taking off more material as it gets wider? You should get a cleaner cut by grinding off that point. "

Jon Zimmer Tools go down to the hollow auger section for a pic

This has worked for me on my AA Woods


----------



## DLK

> The cutter is way too sharp! Here is what Jin Zimmer has to say
> " If you are having trouble with using the A. A. Wood Hollow Auger, the new original cutters have the point ground off, so then the cutter can get close to, and mostly parallel to, the throat, and the point doesn t stick out. Looking at the picture, the cutter is not ground completely parallel - it s a little wider at the outside, maybe for taking off more material as it gets wider? You should get a cleaner cut by grinding off that point. "
> 
> Jon Zimmer Tools go down to the hollow auger section for a pic
> 
> This has worked for me on my AA Woods
> 
> - theoldfart


O.K. I will regrind the cutter. This may take a day or so. I also need to get the bell of my "new" spoke pointer to stay on its auger post. I think I need to replace the set screw. I may have to retap the threads.

Also thanks for the link.


----------



## DLK

Kevin I couldn't stand waiting, so I gave up on what I should be doing and decided to get the AA Woods to work.

Reground the cutter.










Figured out what all the screws did. Then had an epiphany on how it worked. 
Here after chamfering the top with the belt sander I made this test run










Not to bad. Now I got to find a way to make the set screw hold on the spoke pointer.
It has non-modern standard threading, so I could not replace it at the hardware store.


----------



## DanKrager

Combo, if the set screw does not have the modern "cup" design at the pressure end, then the gripping end is all flat and worn, won't grip. A small flat on the shaft will help as will some vertical scratches from coarse abrasive all around the shaft. And I've had good success with chamfering the pressure end so the contact foot is smaller. It reduces the torque required to "get a grip" because the resistance of the smaller foot is reduced. 
Good luck.

DanK


----------



## bandit571

as for that Defiance eggbeater I picked a while back..









seems to have cleaned up nicely….









So I've hung it up with a few other drills…








May have to do a couple others, so they look presentable?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Don K, that is a very solid result with the A.A. Wood auger! Great piece of intel regarding setup too, Kevin. Gotta check mine as it's almost certainly closer to Don's first pic than his second.


----------



## DLK

Smitty. 
(1) The pointy bit of the cutter plays no role in cutting so can be blunt. But the bevel needs to be sharpened I think like a paring chisel.
(2) On the topside is a screw that adjust the "mouth opening" much like on a block plane.
(3) Don't try and loosen the bottom screws without loosing the topside screw first; otherwise they will get bunged up like mine were by the previous owner.


----------



## DLK

> Combo, if the set screw does not have the modern "cup" design at the pressure end, then the gripping end is all flat and worn, won t grip. A small flat on the shaft will help as will some vertical scratches from coarse abrasive all around the shaft. And I ve had good success with chamfering the pressure end so the contact foot is smaller. It reduces the torque required to "get a grip" because the resistance of the smaller foot is reduced.
> Good luck.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


I may try that. The shaft is square and flat and very smooth. I suspected you are right the setscrew has been worn smooth. So maybe roughing up the shaft will indeed work. It however just screws down so mar and then just spins. But if I remove the shaft then it will tighten further.


----------



## DanKrager

[/QUOTE]

It however just screws down so mar and then just spins. But if I remove the shaft then it will tighten further.

- Combo Prof
[/QUOTE]

Das is nicht gut!

DanK


----------



## DLK

I think I will have to retap for a modern setscrew.


----------



## DLK

Retaping to 1/4-20 went very well! Works great now with a modern setscrew.


----------



## Brit

Won a nice old brace today. I have been after one of these for about 10 years now, I even bought one a few years back but when it arrived it was warped so it had to go back. Whilst there are quite a few of them on ebay, the condition of most of them is dubious at best. You see I didn't just want to buy an old tool to hang on the wall. I wanted to use it. Well today I got lucky and won this lovely brace which has not seen a lot of use considering it's age. There is a back story to this tool too which is quite neat. This is what the seller said:

"W Palser Junior was a Birmingham brace maker who was in business from 1846 to 1865 
and very few examples of his work have been found. It has had very little use and is in exceptional condition with an attractive octagonal beech frame.

- The Ebony head rotates freely, it has a very fine shrinkage crack.
- The original owner has stamped the letter "S" in several places on the front and rear frames.
- Most unusually, he has replaced the disc in the ebony head with one, which could be bone, but not sure.
- The button chuck is fully functional and the size is 14" long by 4 ¾" high.

This brace was part of a Tool collection displayed at the Titanic Exhibition at Belfast City Hall in April 2002. These tools were sourced by a Northern Ireland collector from descendants of cabinet makers who worked on the Titanic during her construction from 1909-1911 at Harland and Wolff, Belfast."

Seller's pics:
































































Can't wait to get my hands on it.


----------



## donwilwol

The back story is pretty cool. What are the particulars you were looking for? 10 years is quite some time.


----------



## Brit

- not warped
- button chuck fully operational
- usable
- not defaced with multiple name stamps
- good original condition
- £75 or less

To be honest Don this hasn't been an item I looked for every week, but I have looked on many occasions over that period and it is rare to find one in this condition that someone isn't asking silly money for.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

The head on that is awesome, looks like one of those buckeye candies


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Beautiful pickup, Andy. Congrats!


----------



## DLK

Very nice brace.


----------



## duckmilk

Nice brace Andy! Due to the time period during which it was manufactured, do you suppose the button in the head could possibly be ivory?


----------



## TheFridge

I wants one of those one day. My only requirement is that it has to be better than yours


----------



## Slyy

Nice brace Andy.


----------



## Brit

Duck - It could be I guess. The seller seems to think a previous owner made that modification. I think it could be original, but I'm still researching that.

Fridge - There are plenty better than mine if you are prepared to pay silly money for them.

Jake - Thanks man.


----------



## Just_Iain

For those needing a Corner/Joist Ratchet Brace: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Corner-Joist-Ratchet-Brace/152826500893?hash=item23952b571d:g:F-8AAOSw0exaEYcX

And what appears to be a 6" Brace: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stanley-carpenters-drill-hand-brace/192401960167?hash=item2ccc0cece7:g:UdUAAOSwevlaEEnJ

And another that appears to be 6": https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Carpenters-Hand-Brace-Drill-like-Stanley-Skinner-wooden-handle-06/272992921843?hash=item3f8fa568f3:g:KcYAAOSwCtJaPPFL

How about a circular Double Trammel Cutter: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Brace-Circular-Double-Trammel-Cutter/292380385492?hash=item44133aa0d4:g:1EYAAOSwOjBZX1c8

Merry Christmas Everyone!


----------



## Just_Iain

Guys and Gals, continuing yesterdays quest, I've been rooting around in eBay.co.uk : Collectables>Tools & Collectable Hardware>Collectable Tools>Carpentry & Woodworking Tools>Drills, Braces & Bits (sort for UK only) and some very special toys to be found: 
"A RARE VINTAGE QUEAD RAPPER DRILL WITH BIT" 
"Stunning Tiny 8" Long German Made Hand Drill Egg Beater Fully Functional" 
"An Awesome Antique Shipwrights Deck Plug Insert Brace Drill Bit"

Enjoy,
Iain


----------



## Brit

Daddy's on a roll… Just bought this one too, made by A. Mathieson & Son, Glasgow

Seller's pics:














































Also, I couldn't resist this early 17 1/4" (with bit fitted) Archimedes drill:


----------



## Slyy

Andy the brace looks like it could be boxwood? I've watched a few Archimedes drills floating around the Bay, I'll probably try and snag one some day.


----------



## donwilwol

Awesome Andy. You're on a roll. Merry Xmas to you.


----------



## Pompeio

I have my dad's Black & Decker electric drill that he bought in the 50's along with its original owners manual. The drill still. Works!


----------



## Brit

Jake - I'm pretty sure it is made out of English beech. They were made out of one piece of wood and I don't think you can get a single piece of quartersawn boxwood that big.

Don - Thanks. Merry Christmas to you and your family too.

Pompeio - It is great to have tools from family members. I have a couple of my granddad's tools which I treasure.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmmm









At a dollar a pair…..for a couple hard to find sizes…#4 and a #5….


----------



## Brit

Good score Bandit!


----------



## JuniorJoiner

not a drill i will put into use, but it is wonderfully built.
shopmate brand, made in USA by pet.


















i also have a few eggbeater drills collected.


----------



## theoldfart

Millers Falls # 21, now completed with the vise.


----------



## Slyy

Kev, that is awful purty.


----------



## Just_Iain

A question for this wise crowd. Is the sweep of the brace measured from centre of the chuck to the centre of the drive handle multiplied by 2? I have a Skinner that appears to be 2 3/4" centre to centre which would mean that it's a 5 1/2" sweep.


----------



## DanKrager

That's the way to measure as I understand, Just_Iain. That's a really odd size.

DanK


----------



## Just_Iain

DanK,

I was delighted to grab what I thought was a 6" but the measurement came in at 5 1/2". The hardest part was convincing the seller that I was serious about spend the 25 British Pounds to get it shipped to me.

Iain


----------



## Just_Iain

DanK,

I was delighted to grab what I thought was a 6" but the measurement came in at 5 1/2". The hardest part was convincing the seller that I was serious about spend the 25 British Pounds to get it shipped to me.

Brad appears to have refurbished either the same model or one slightly larger. http://lumberjocks.com/planepassion/blog/27900

Iain


----------



## Holt

I found what I believe is a Miller Falls #2 in a local shop, Rustic Relics in Clanton, AL). Clean, seems to be mechanically sound, but missing the crank handle. It was only $8.00, so I figured I may be able to find a crank and if not, could probably work out some way to make one.










Any one have a crank and mounting screw with which they would be willing to part?


----------



## bigblockyeti

^ Looks like all you need is a machine screw of the correct thread, 2 1/2" - 3" long and you could then turn your own handle for it.


----------



## Holt

It actually has a crank. I initially thought I would just have to turn a knob for it <g> Here is a picture of one with the crank present:


----------



## BlasterStumps

Might be a later 2A drill. I say that because I don't think I can see a friction roller on it.


----------



## Holt

Best I can tell from perusing pictures on the web, the make and model of the drill is on the part I have missing <g>. I'm definitely not knowledgeable enough to work out the exact model myself.


----------



## Holt

Looks I just got the PayPal invoice for the replacement crank. He lists it as Millers Falls No. 2 / No. 2A Crank Arm. You may be on the money about it being a 2A!.

This thing looks to be in great shape and with the replacement crank I'm into it for about $32 bucks. Maybe not a miraculous deal, but much cheaper than one of the beautiful refurbs…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hot - if you're interested in pics of other 2A eggbeaters:

http://lumberjocks.com/Smitty_Cabinetshop/blog/32815

Congrats on getting yours back together!


----------



## Slyy

Well got a good OfferUp deal yesterday for $10 so now I've got a "line" collection going, added a very fresh looking Millers Falls 771 12 inch Lion to go along with my 14 inch 730 Lion brace. Both appear to fall somewhere in the 1925-1957 timeframe based on how they are outfitted









Now I just need the 16, 10, 8, and 6 inch versions to complete the set!

Also picked up another "Yankee" style brace, this time the real deal made by North Brothers 10", so it can be at home with my Bell System-B copy and a North Brothers, Div. of Stanley copy, both also 10".









Also added my first Mills Falls Holdall brace, this one a pre 1957 No. 732, also a 10" (common size I guess since I have a bunch this size)


----------



## Mosquito

Nice Jake. I've got both Yankee and Millers Falls Holdall, and have enjoyed the holdalls quite a bit. They're solid, and lighter than the Yankee ones I've got


----------



## Slyy

Yeah Mos, I recall seeing some of your posts about them from sometime back. Have kept an eye out for the Holdalls since then.


----------



## bandit571

Picked this this afternoon…









Had a "Bonus" with it..









A Craftsman #13 bit…..almost minty….decided to make the brace look as good..









The only markings found, were on the chuck..









Goodell Pratt. 8" sweep ( I think) two jaw chuck. Has a Dec 27 1892 patent date….the rings on the sweep handle have set screws. Rosewood for the handles. 









Now we know where Millers Falls got this idea…

Bit is sharp, and almost like new. 









May not have been much work, for a 13/16" size bit? 
$9 + sales Tax…


----------



## bandit571

I think I found out what model this old brace is….a 1905 Model 408.










Mainly because of that little loop to shift the ratchet direction, came out in 1905










Yep, that little steel loop.

As for the Craftsman bit….the paint on the tapered end is Black….not sure when Craftsman painted those black…maybe sometime in the 1950s?


----------



## Boatman53

A friend of mine has this Canedy Otto hand crank drill press that he wants to get rid of.










Not sure he is interested in shipping, but I could help transport between Long Island and Maine on me next trip north.
I thought about adding it to my tools 'cause it is cool and everything seems to be there and it works but I know it would never get used it is best going to someone else.
Jim


----------



## FrankonThetis

Found this at a local store selling various items to raise money for Cops for Cancer. Old Stanley 14" drill in decent shape. Need to clean off plating to properly read the model number. Should clean up nicely.


----------



## DLK

Nice brace.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I found this Stanley 8" drill at the local Restore. The ratcheting mechanism is totally seized up from the grease setting up inside there. Otherwise it looks in good knick other than the black plastic handle and button are scuffed pretty badly. I will look into a way to polish them. I don't own a buffer set up so I will have to improvise somehow. If I was any good on the lathe, I might try making some new handles out of wood but unfortunately I'm not good on it. On top of that, I think it hates me. : ( I'll try to remember to post an after picture when it is cleaned and working properly.


----------



## theoldfart

Nice looking Yankee brace. Probably one of the best out there.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Well here's a couple "after" pics of the Stanley brace drill. Admittedly not a whole lot of difference in outward appearance but it is now working silky smooth inside. Had my bench top covered with parts and tools. No parts left over so I think I got it all back in there : ) I found a secret weapon for getting the ring clip out of the chuck shell. A sharpened paint can opener.


----------



## bandit571

Out and about over the weekend…came home with a bunch of saws..









Some sort of screwdriver…and that bonnie blue eggbeater….with a brad point drill bit. Bit is almost like new, drill may need a touch of oil…Still working my way through the saws…$5 for the drill, $1 for the screwdriver…


----------



## bandit571

Cleaned it up a bit…metal piece on the handle has a clipped box Stanley logo, Made in USA . There is a number also, unable to read it all….."No. 1221A"? A few drops of oil, where "oil" was marked..spin it a few times…runs like new.

May have had a paper label long time ago, just some traces of label glue left. Chuck works great…


----------



## bandit571

Cleaned it up a bit…metal piece on the handle has a clipped box Stanley logo, Made in USA . There is a number also, unable to read it all….."No. 1221A"? A few drops of oil, where "oil" was marked..spin it a few times…runs like new.

May have had a paper label long time ago, just some traces of label glue left. Chuck works great…might be worth the $5?


----------



## Tim457

Nice job on that Blaster, thats a good brace. 8 inch is a good size for driving bolts or lag screws. Also works for regular screws though a 6inch works a little better for that. The hex shank on a bit holder or nut driver fits right in the brace.


----------



## BlasterStumps

> Nice job on that Blaster, thats a good brace. 8 inch is a good size for driving bolts or lag screws. Also works for regular screws though a 6inch works a little better for that. The hex shank on a bit holder or nut driver fits right in the brace.
> 
> - Tim


Thanks Tim. Even though this is the third one I have disassembled, I was still a bit nervous as I started in on this one. There are quite a few small parts and my hands aren't so steady these days. Not to mention my eyesight is not too good either. I kept all the 1/8" ball bearings in control by first dumping them onto a towel then carefully putting them in a plastic container. That saved the day for sure. I learned on one of the first ones I took apart not to mess with the selector button or the parts inside for it. No need to take them out, I just made sure it worked okay. Here is a family shot of my four Bell Systems braces:


----------



## DLK

*Blaster* I'm going to have to learn how to do that. May be you could write a blog or make a video?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Actually there is already one that is on Blackburn Tools. I followed it to take mine apart and clean them up. Here is a link:

http://www.blackburntools.com/blog/yankee-2101a-brace-disassembly-and-cleaning/

I did not mess with the selector. I don't think it is necessary unless it simply doesn't move. I sprayed a little WD-40 in side there. If you do take those pieces out, be prepared for some frustrating times trying to put them back in.

One other thing I found that helps is to use a paint can opener to get the spring clip out of the shell of the chuck. In fact I used two openers and it went really easy.


----------



## DLK

Thanks. Must of my braces are non-Stanley but this gives me an idea.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Found another odd bit(?) for a brace drill. It is a 20mm socket. I think I will chuck it up in a brace and use it to lower and raise the stabilizers on our camp trailer. : ) I wonder what trade it was made for. Maybe plumbing?
Mike


----------



## bandit571

$4 brace I picked..









Had been left outside on a table, for who knows how long, at a Junk Store's outside sales area…









Cleaned things up a bit..









Hmmm..









Hmmm..









Stanley No. 945 8" 
Seems to match my 10" version..









Might find some use for it….


----------



## Bertha

https://www.etsy.com/listing/578015753/antique-11-bit-brace-19th-century?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=vintage&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=woodworking%20tools&ref=sr_gallery-22-37

handsome


----------



## Brit

This might be interesting to those who frequent this thread:


----------



## ToddJB

I follow that guy from time to time. I am blown away by his video craft and his skills. He amazes me.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I picked this MF No 5 drill in an antique mall in Denver the other day. I was glad to see that it has a cast frame. Not pot metal. The drill is heavy for it's size. I might have to see if I can rehab it some. Needs a little paint possibly. Not terribly old but of good quality I think.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Little update on the MF No 5 drill. I decided since it works soooo nice that I would leave it alone and not do anything more than just clean and lube it. It takes it's place in my tool cabinet. Love it and the No 2A. I also have the Goodell eggbeater that I am trying to decide where to keep. It's in a drawer for the time being.


----------



## bandit571

The Usual Suspects in use today..









Why change bits, just change drills..









What was made by Millers falls, but sold by Keen Kutter…









While the one by Stanley seems to have had other jobs….Ord. Dept. United States Army..









Both drills are 6" sweeps…..


----------



## BlasterStumps

I found these two drills today at a shop here locally. Very nice man running the business. They are both Millers Falls braces. The small one(6") is a No 34 and, the large one (14") is a No 30. I lubed and cleaned them and will leave them as is. Because they are both in such good condition, I think they will make great user drills.


----------



## DLK

I recall there was a video here or on TTT that had different sounds that hand drills (eggbeater) made in an effort to demonstrate what a properly tuned one would sound like. I would like to review it. Does anyone have a link?
 I am interested in purchasing MF hand drills for restoration, in particular No 2 and No 5. Anyone have them for sale at a reasonable but fair price?


----------



## BlasterStumps

A little off-track from your questions Don but, I wanted to show a couple drills that I have picked and gave a try. The one with the black plastic handle is a made in England model and the other is made in USA. When I first found these, I didn't expect them to be much at all. Only one pinion and a die cast gear. Well a couple days ago, I found them again and spent a few minutes cleaning them up and lubing them. I have to admit that I was totally wrong about the two drills. I actually really like them both. The made in England model is a really nice running drill. The USA model is a bit quieter but a tiny bit tighter in the running. I compared them to the No 5 and was quite impressed with how they both fair compared to the 5. I just had a preconceived notion that they would not be nearly as good as they actually are. I think together, I have about two bucks in them. Not bad drills for the money.


----------



## DLK

Thanks. I restored a MF 77 recently and I am quite pleased with the results. But because of shipping problems with McMaster-car I have an excess of extra springs that I hope to find more hand drills to put them into. Also the restoration was quite fun. Found a MF 7 today.


----------



## BlasterStumps

The 77 was/is a very nice tool. I wouldn't hesitate to pick one up if I found one locally. I have only rarely seen the model 7 drill. You will have to update us on how you like it.


----------



## bandit571

Afraid the one I have is a No. 2-01…..


----------



## DLK

> The 77 was/is a very nice tool. I wouldn t hesitate to pick one up if I found one locally. I have only rarely seen the model 7 drill. You will have to update us on how you like it.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Well it will take a while. It is pretty rusted. But for $8 I bought it. I will have to evaporrust it as soon as I can get it appart.


----------



## DLK

Here is a befor shot of the MF No. 7.










I got it apart now. Turns out it was more dirty then rusty. So I will clean it with out Evaporust. Mostly done now, but I am done for the day. The ferrule on the side handle should be replaced. The take up seems to be missing:










Im not sure how the take up works. If any one has one they can measure, please let me know.


----------



## DLK

Here is the restoration as far as I can go for now.










Upon further examination, because of it has a detachable chef's cap side handle, I belive it was made in 1935 or later, See http://oldtoolheaven.com/hand_drills/drill3.htm. Thus it does not have the take up adjust as this feature was discontinued.

I need to find an aluminum ferrule for the side handle.

The picture does not do it justice. It is all lubricated now and runs great smoother than the MF 77. Holds bits up to 1/4.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'm working on a MF 120B breast drill. I need a chuck for it. Anyone have a MF parts drill?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Anyone else in favour of a forum thread where forum participants could post their wanted items. I.e., power tools, hand tools, or accessories. Or parts for power tools, hand tools, or accessories. Call the thread something like: What are you looking for? Is that a dumb idea?


----------



## bandit571

Afraid my breast drill is a No. 120…...but, then again….haven't been using it, just taking up space in a drawer….

But, it will "break down" and fit in a Medium Flat Rate box…..


----------



## DanKrager

Blaster, doesn't this one for what you are suggesting?

DanK


----------



## BlasterStumps

Bandit, thanks but all I need is just a chuck. I actually have a Dunlap that is very nearly the same drill that I can swap the chuck from one to the other. Thank you though. I just thought if someone had a chuck rolling around in a parts drawer I might talk them out of it. I will find one locally at some point no doubt. I see MF drills quite often. This one is not worth robbing anther drill. Thank you.
Mike


----------



## BlasterStumps

Well maybe. Not quite what I was thinking but probably the best place to post stuff like that. Thanks
Mike


> Blaster, doesn t this one work for what you are suggesting?
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager





> Blaster, doesn t this one for what you are suggesting?
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


----------



## BlasterStumps

Just sharing a picture of the Millers Falls Breast Drill 120B. I cleaned it up a bit and did some painting of the body and breast plate parts. I took the chuck off of my Dunlap drill and put it on it for the picture. It's not the drill of my dreams by any stretch but it works.


----------



## DLK

So how did you paint it. I just did one I tried to mask the gear teeth and spray paint, but gave up and just used a brush. It came out pretty good.


----------



## BlasterStumps

"how did you paint it" 
I didn't paint the drive gear, just the drill body and the breast plate. I took it apart, soaked it in evaporust, washed it off with soapy water and a scrub brush, then I soaked for a minute in safety solvent, then a quick clean with mineral spirits, then shot it with a rattle can of engine paint. I buffed the shaft and some of the small hardware then put it all back together, twice. First time I put the gears back in and discovered I had left the thrust bearing off the shaft. Dad gum. : (

Oh yes, I masked what I could and stuffed tissue in the rest of the holes.


----------



## bandit571

Ok..here goes..









Gear side…









Crank side…









No. 120….from Millers Falls MASS.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks for sharing the pictures Bandit. They sure look similar in a lot of ways. Makes me wonder why they messed around with so many different drills. When you look at how many MF breast drill models were made and then add in how many Goodell-Pratt, Craftsman, Dunlap, and Shelton and whoever else they made them for including other countries possibly, there was a tonne-load of drills over time. I think the toolsmiths must have been bored.

I am on the hunt for a nice breast drill for my tool board. It will probably be a MF or Goodell-Pratt if I can find the right one. I'm so weird, huh?


----------



## DLK

Sitting in an airport and a little bored I have a question:

Does any body have the Pratt family tree?

According to Old Tool Heaven:

Henry Lee Pratt was the president of the Millers Falls Company for thirty-two years, and was born in 1826. 
He was the fifth of the eight children of Ephraim Pratt and Huldah Pierce. The elder Pratt, a church deacon, was a farmer of modest means who supplemented his income by teaching country school and taking surveying jobs as they became available. Ephraim Pratt's sons were promising students. Three of the boys, Hiram Alden, Henry Lee and Lemuel Church, became public school teachers, and a fourth, Ephraim Lorrison, became an inventor.

*More questions*:


 How is William M. Pratt of Goodell-Pratt related to Henry Lee Pratt?
 My Grandfather was also an "Ephraim Pratt" but not the same "Ephraim Pratt" as above. He married Isabel Jane Cameron and had 2 children Donald Pratt and Isabel Jane Pratt. My mother was the latter. The name Ephraim seems to me to be unusual enough that some how I think I most be related to Henry Lee Pratt. How do I determine if this is so?


----------



## DanKrager

When I bought this chain drill accessory, I honestly didn't think I would ever use it let alone need it. But it saved the day and worked like a dream on this dried osage orange. (Handles for a Planet Jr. garden tool). The bit is a vintage RJ 100 so it has the fine threads for hard woods and they are sharp as can be. The cutting edges and lips needed a bit of touch up, so when it was applied to the wood it was better than new. The threads caught, it pulled two rounds of chips and quit. I simply didn't have enough strength to force it to get more chips. My breast plate and arms are now very sore from that little effort. So I remembered having this tool and as luck would have it, it was right where it was supposed to be. Lubed it up, put it to work and WOW! 









I learned something about the tool that I didn't know and it isn't obvious until you use it. It advances the drill by tightening the chain a little bit every turn of the handle by means of a peg in the handle end moving past a gear wheel that spins about 90° letting the peg pass and advancing a ring nut on the tool's advancing thread. When the bit is cutting freely and the bit threads are pulling it into the cut, the advancing ring spins with the handle (ahead of the peg) and keeps the chain tight as the hole deepens, but just taking up slack. When the pilot threads spin out, the advancing ring stops and the peg begins to advance the ring again forcing the cut to begin again. Serendipity.
DanK


----------



## Brit

They knew a thing or two back then didn't they Dan?


----------



## theoldfart

I guess I shouldn't have ignored these at the flea markets. Dan, thanks for the insight. Now to go hunting.


----------



## ToddJB

Dan, is that the one we swapped for the mallet set?


----------



## DanKrager

Todd, it is, now that you mention it. I had forgotten that fact, so think of the term "bought" loosely. And no, you're not getting it back! 

DanK


----------



## ToddJB

Ha, well, my mallets have more than earned their keep in my shop, so no take backs.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Found a nice vintage drill today. It's a 2100 North Bros / Stanley "Yankee" (no patent dates) 12 in. Should be fun to clean up. Just guessing but, I don't think anyone ever oiled it. 
I put it next to an 8" Bell Systems brace for the picture. 
Mike


----------



## BlasterStumps

I got the Yankee brace cleaned and lubed. Nice tool. Had to take the chuck all apart to lube it properly. No green goo in the direction mechanism on this one. 
Mike


----------



## bandit571

Some of the items from over the weekend…









Picked up a pair of eggbeaters, and a pair of breast drills….one of the breast drills is labeled as Jordan/ France?

Will post when fully cleaned up..









The two eggbeaters…and a Goodell-Pratt single patent date Chain drill…...Trying to get it's chuck to work….may be missing a plate inside? To move the three jaws up? They still have their springs….same as the Jordan….

Will have to clean the label up a bit better on the other breast drill….what do I need 3 such drills for?


----------



## bandit571

Second breast drill is a Goodell-Pratt….according to the label on the gear wheel…..

Eggbeater with the wood handle has two gears…the "fancy" handled one has a single gear. Wood handle has a nut and bolt to hold it on..barely. May see IF I can fix that…...not sure what I can do about that other "handle"....

There is one other gem in this pile of stuff..









Ignore the H-F tools, and the Sears bandsaw blade ( 80", 1/4" , 15 tpi) and look at the "add-a-chuck" ...you can add this to most brace drills, and then use small twist drills….has a 3 jaw set up. Pilot holes?


----------



## DLK

> .....not sure what I can do about that other "handle"....
> 
> - bandit571


I think the easiest fix is to replace it entirely with a solid new handle. Turned on a lath or shaped with a spoke shave.


----------



## bandit571

A few photos…









The "Add-a-chuck" 









Might be a Millers Falls?








Two gears, but single speed.

Next?









Single patent date, Goodell-Pratt. 









trying to resolve jaw issues within the chuck…









Label say this is a Goodell-Pratt….haven't read a model number, yet.









The other breast drill?









Seems to have come from France….Crank handle has a "Jordan France" on it..









Two speed, enclosed gear box. So….do I keep the Goodell-Pratt, or..one of these two?









Hmmm…..


----------



## bandit571

Eggbeater is a Goodell-Pratt No. 329….....

The Goodell-Pratt Breast drill..is a No. 0477…stamped right on the crank handle…


----------



## bandit571

Having "issues" with a few of these old chucks….jaws and springs are in place….just having trouble getting them to actually ..move. May have to tear them apart….and polish the cone on the inside? Even the 329 was nasty….


----------



## bandit571

Second eggbeater, with the plumbing fixtures for a handle? Have since rehabbed it…









Old, cheap coping saw handle….drilled out for a tight, drive on fit…









Shined up the bright parts. a few drops of 3in1 oil, in the right spots..purrs right along, even holds a drill bit..


----------



## DLK

So thats what to do with coping saws with missing parts. Who knew?


----------



## realcowtown_eric

my most intriguing score of the spring summer was a mf 666…..the DEVILS TOOL!

__
https://flic.kr/p/42631198480

if you look at the other pics. please don't drool on them….causes rust eh?

Eric


----------



## bandit571

A Walk-about over the weekend…









The #82 was $10….the drill? $1









Torn down….









Jaws still had a spring! Cleaned things up a bit…









Looks a bit better? Got to looking at the drill til…









Twins? At least I can read the logos…









Both drills are No. 945-8









By Stanley, says so right there…..also here…









Says : Made [STANLEY] in USA….May set one up for a larger drill bit, and the other for a larger Countersink bit?
I do have an "add-a-chuck"..









Maybe add it to one of these drills?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Was this chain drill mod originally from Millers Falls? Once the ebay page opens, scroll down a little to the ad.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Millers-Falls-Two-Speed-Eggbeater-Hand-Drill-Woodworking/173485608530?hash=item28648c4e52:g:eQMAAOSw3Khbmh1Q


----------



## DLK

It is labeled miller falls on the the drive wheel. See the last picture.


----------



## BlasterStumps

The drill itself is a MF 12 but the chain drill parts are not the norm. I was wondering if they could also be MF or possibly GP. I just haven't seen a breast drill fitted out with this hardware before. Thanks Don.
Mike


----------



## DLK

Oh I see. I think I have seen such parts made by Miller falls. Someone here should know for sure.


----------



## DLK

There are auger bit attachments that convert a brace or breast drill to a chain drill. see 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Miller-Falls-Chain-Hand-Drill/163261726139?hash=item2603283dbb:gWMAAOSwS9Bbk1ww
for example.


----------



## DLK

Well Miller falls number 25 is apparently a chain breast drill.










see https://oldtoolheaven.com/breastdrills/breastdrill2.htm
scroll down to No. 25

Note it says: Optional D-type handle available 1905-1929. Basically a No. 12 with an integral chain drill.


----------



## WayneC

I had seen them in catalogs for breast drills. Found one in a quick google search although. I see similar posts above, this has some text.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Don, That is what I was wanting to see. Thanks Don. I just missed that when I looked thru the MF drill info. 
I might have been interested in buying it but too expensive for me and my tool board. : (

Wayne, Thanks for the response. 
Mike


----------



## BlasterStumps

I found a MF 99. It should be shipped today or tomorrow. Took me a while to find a breast drill interesting enough to want to restore and hang on the tool board. I hope it turns out to be in good enough shape. Won't know until I get my mitts on it though. Pictures later.
Now that I know about the breast drill type 25 with the chain drill hardware, I'll have to keep my eye out for one.


----------



## WayneC

Also look out for the North Brothers Breast Drills, they are quite nice.


----------



## theoldfart

Try to find a North Bros Yankee 1555.


















When we moved cross country this past May I sold all of my MF/GP breast drills and just kept the Yankee.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have a couple 1530A hand drills and a 1455 two-speed breast drill. I find that the 5-position mechanisms on the North Bros drills to be a bit finicky. I do like their two-speed breast drill however. Just not the one I want to hang on my tool board. : )


> Also look out for the North Brothers Breast Drills, they are quite nice.
> 
> - WayneC


----------



## BlasterStumps

TOF, I just haven't had good luck with the 5 position selector/transmission thingy on the North Bros stuff. I even decided against the MF 97 for that reason and most of those I found had broken teeth. I think the two-speed is complicated enough for me. : ) Thanks though.
Mike


----------



## DLK

TOF nice way to store the breast drill. I may copy it.

Also, I finally have a chance to come out and see you. I have a nieces wedding to go to on the cape and will fly into Boston….. oh wait you moved to California. Darn :-(.


----------



## theoldfart

^ Don, you could just drive west for a day or two! We have room.

Blaster, my MF's and GP's multi speeds were a PIA, the Yankee just took getting used to.


----------



## DLK

^ well 32 hours driving would take me 5 days. ;-) But I will be at SFO for a few hours waiting my flight to Sydney on Sept 29.


----------



## bandit571

Have this Goodell Pratt sitting around the shop..









Along with a G-P 0477..









Not sure I'll ever use either…


----------



## BlasterStumps

My Millers Falls 99 came today so here are a couple pictures as it is now:



















It's going to take some work. It's looks to have all it's pieces and parts. Also appears to have good bones so should redo nicely. 
Nice clean rag on my bench huh?


----------



## theoldfart

i didn't have any luck working with that style speed adjustment. Mine kept "skipping", like there was a tooth missing.


----------



## BlasterStumps

tof, did you try to take your drill apart? I would like to disassemble this one down to the point of taking the speed selector mechanism out of it but can't loosen the knurled piece next to the chuck that is (I think) screwed into the frame. I don't want to put a tool like pliers or pipe wrench on that knurled part so I am not sure how to proceed.


----------



## theoldfart

Mike, I couldn't figure out how to take it apart. Like you I didn't want to take pliers, vise grips or pipe wrench to it. I did disassemble a Yankee, a 1445 I think. Took quite some time to get it back together.


----------



## BlasterStumps

tof, I figured out that what was holding the shaft in place was a pin right thru the shifter barrel. I drove it out, pulled the shaft out (bearings went all over the towel I had under it) and the shifter just rolled out onto the bench. All good up till then but then I started taking the shifter apart. Tiny little parts! Now I have one of those little puzzles to work on until I can get it back together and shifting again. : )


----------



## theoldfart

Yea, it took a long time to get mine back together. Kicker is it's still not usable since the threads on the chuck and drill shaft need to be chased and I don't have the proper tap and die.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Finished the MF 99. Here are a couple pics:


----------



## theoldfart

Looks outstanding, should be all set for the next 75_100 years.


----------



## BlasterStumps

tof, I fixed this 99 drill so no more skipping. I turned the shifter mechanism 180 deg and redrilled for the pin. Now it shifts silky smooth and no more disengaging of the shifter cogs. 
Mike


----------



## woodcox

Very nice, Mike. I really like the casting under the breastplate. Glad you got it spinning nicely again.

Here is a gp 245, the black on the crank looks original. Are these the pita mechanisms you were referring to Kevin? I find letting go to bump the cogs and getting greasy or over to the crank annoying getting the them to shift sometimes. I have several of these. 

















Mmm. My Lava lamp.


----------



## BlasterStumps

woodcox, that is a cool picture of the drive gear. Kind of a work of art to my eye.
Mike


----------



## theoldfart

Woody, I was referring to one like Mikes. I didn't own your style.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I found this Hibbard Spencer & Bartlett Co. drill today. It's a model 1908 OVB, 6" sweep. I can't remember seeing a 6" OVB drill like this before. I have no idea if it was made by Stanley or Millers Falls. It's all tight and works nice but needs a clean. I'm planning to suspend it up to the wrist handle in a container of Evaporust. This drill is old enough that it has the set screw type wrist handle end caps. I'm thinking somewhere close to 1910 to 1920.


----------



## theoldfart

Maybe WayneC will check in but the chuck looks like a Millers Falls Lion chuck to me.


----------



## bandit571

Almost like a PEXTO Samson chuck, as well?


----------



## CFrye

Mike, if you suspend the brace, will not the EvapoRust etch at the liquid level? Set screw end caps? I don't think I've seen that before. Cool.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Hi Candy, 
I took a picture of the wrist handle end caps. I hope it shows the screws located on their undersides. On the Evaporust, I might see if I can move the end caps then soak it. I'll have to look at it again. Possibly I can just clean it up enough without the evaporust.


----------



## bandit571

But wait, there is still more..








and the latest group picture…








Even had one hiding in a drawer..









I think I MIGHT have too many eggbeater drills? bad enough with the 3 breast drills, AND..









A Baker's Dozen of Braces….is there such a thing as too many drills?


----------



## BlasterStumps

I spent some time on the HS&B Co drill this morning. I didn't put it in the soak. Just cleaned it best I could and lubed it. Seems to be a nice drill.










Here it is with the MF 34 that is a 6" also.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Quite the herd of drills Bandit. Someone has to save them from rust and neglect, right?


----------



## CFrye

Thanks for the end cap pics, Mike. A little elbow grease went a long way on that little brace! Cleaned up great!


----------



## bandit571

Pexto 12" brace..with Samson chuck…








Close up of the chuck..









12" sweep….


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here is what was shown in the HS&B catalog on this drill:

Full Nickel Plated, Ball Bearing, Metal Clad
Head, Cocobolo Head and Handle, Adjustable
Handle Collars, Spindle and Chuck Body
of One Piece of Steel, Alligator Pattern
Toothed Forged Steel Jaws, Anti-Friction
Washer, Knurled Thimble Ratchet
Adjustment and Swell-End Chuck


----------



## JohnMcClure

A friend just gave this as a gift for my little boys:


















If you can't make out the stamp, it says "Millers Falls Co." on the top, "Greenfield, Mass" on the bottom, "No. 5" to the right, and has a "folded pennant" sort of Millers Falls logo over "Made in USA" on the right.

A great introduction to tools for my kids, and well received! Works great.
I'm wondering if any of you could date this based on the stamp or other features? I saw some type studies that indicated this is from the 1910-1920 era, but didn't see the "folded pennant" logo on those pages.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I cleaned and sharpened up this PS&W Co beam drill mostly for my tool wall. Not the drill of my dreams but, I've been looking for one for a while and just happened on to this one the other day when I found the little 6" brace. The auger is 1-3/4". It's plenty sharp, I cut the crap out of my little finger just trying to hold on to the auger this morning. : (


----------



## MrRon

First time visiting this vintage drill forum. I don't have much in the way of vintage drills other than a MF brace, maybe 60 years old and a Stanley handyman egg beater. Looking at the braces, the question popped into my head; how did they get the sweep grip installed where it is? It would appear, in manufacture, the sweep handle had to be in place before the shaft was bent to the sweep shape.


----------



## BlasterStumps

if you watch this video, you will see them forming the brace after the wood wrist handle was slipped on. This is millers falls co. That part starts at 8:32 I believe.


----------



## bandit571

Most wrist handles were split, with a layered glue joint. The two matching halves were glued back together ON the brace. IF you look at some of those handles, you can just barely make out where the split was.


----------



## MrRon

> if you watch this video, you will see them forming the brace after the wood wrist handle was slipped on. This is millers falls co. That part starts at 8:32 I believe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Thanks for the video link. I thought so.


----------



## summerfi

Seen on ebay today: D. Kendall brace with BIN price of $1450.


----------



## Brit

That's beautiful Bob. Thanks for sharing it.


----------



## Brit




----------



## DanKrager

Ah, yes. Ye Olde Parenthesis Braces. Interesting stuff and arrangement, Brit.

Like the looks of that carved brace, too, Bob.

Just looking, though.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

I dunno, it reminds me of the duck from hell. Scary looking.


----------



## bandit571

Random shots ….









Samson….PEXTO No. 8012









Why change bits..









Have two drills set up, instead…


----------



## bandit571

Ok..$8 got me a 10" sweep brace, today..









Something about a Patent is on the chuck….with a shield logo…arm has a "N" ( or Z..?) 104









Top handle is not a ball bearing style….Chuck works great, even on twist drill bits. 









Wrist handle is a 2 piece thing, with two metal bands. Wood appears to be Rosewood on both handles…
Still looking up who made this brace…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Might be a Fray brace Bandit


----------



## bandit571

Simmons KEEN KUTTER No. 104…....


----------



## BlasterStumps

Yes, I believe you are right on the brand but, I believe Shapleigh contracted out the manufacturing of their tools.


----------



## bandit571

Remnants of a shield logo above the Patent markings…..may have been a Goodell-Pratt? Pewter rings in the Walnut handle….

My 6" sweep brace has the same long chuck….also marked as a Keen Kutter….but is the same as a Millers Falls #1054


----------



## TMule

Hi all
I have acquired a hand brace from a local habitat for humanity restore along with a couple of warranted superior hand saws. I worked with my Dads hand tools as a kid making everything from birdhouses to pinewood derby cars. He has a collection that he is handing down to me whenever I have a chance to pick them up. Anyway, I have this h









and brace that I would like help identifying. It's pretty pitted, so I haven't found any identifying marks yet. Appreciate any feedback.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Don't know what make it is but usually there is something stamped in the straight parts of the round stock that leads up to the middle handle. Sometimes quite small print. And also on the chuck likewise small lettering. You may have to get some of the "patina" off to see the markings. : )


----------



## TMule

Thanks for the response. I'm a bit hesitant to start working the patina off. Fear I might lose the ID markings.
I'll be working on it this week to see what I've got here.


----------



## DLK

You won't likely lose markings they are stamped pretty deep. Try wiping the bow with mineral sprits and see if you can read make and numbers. Sometimes you will find them on the the flat bit between the ratchet and the shell.


----------



## WayneC

Looks like a millers falls to me. Perhaps an 82.

https://oldtoolheaven.com/brace/brace2.htm


----------



## BlasterStumps

Spent some time trying to save another one. Pexto 7008 with Samson chuck, rosewood handle and button. The dog wouldn't catch for the clockwise rotation. I completely disassembled it (3 times) before I found the problem. Had to grind out the rotating ring that you turn to select direction. Also took some off the lobe of the dog and then it worked fine. It's the only one I have with that style chuck.


----------



## WayneC

I'ts a beautiful brace. Not sure I would classify that as a Sampson chuck. The Sampson is heavier. Yours would pre-date the sampson….

http://www.sydnassloot.com/brace/psw.htm


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks for setting me straight on that Wayne. Looks like I got some bad info online or I read it wrong, one. Anyway, you are correct. This drill just has a two-piece chuck (socket). Not a real good one either. The drill may also have cocobolo handle and button as well instead of rosewood. I should have went to the catalog. Thanks again.


----------



## WayneC

I think it's an awesome brace.


----------



## DLK

... 


> Thanks for setting me straight on that Wayne. Looks like I got some bad info online or I read it wrong, one. Anyway, you are correct. This drill just has a two-piece chuck (socket). Not a real good one either. The drill may also have cocobolo handle and button as well instead of rosewood. I should have went to the catalog. Thanks again.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


FYI cocobolo is in fact a true rosewood. As good or better than traditional rosewood.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Good info Don. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## WayneC

I also don't think its a bad chuck, just an earlier one. Its a great brace.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I was messing around on an auction site and found a North Bros hybrid drill. Like a big dummy, I put in a bid. I really didn't think I would have a chance with what I bid but, the drill will be here towards the end of the week. Needless to say, when I told my wife, she wasn't thrilled. I think she said something like, "You bought another tool!"

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

This MF driver is a beast, just sayin'...


----------



## WayneC

Does hiding help Mike? Either you or the tool….

Lee valley adapter in the MF driver Smitty?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Yes it is, and it's highly recommended.


----------



## BlasterStumps

> Yes it is, and it s highly recommended.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


What is, hiding?


----------



## theoldfart

Mike, good drill. I think the one I have is the 1555. Difference is the two speed setting on the handle. I got rid of all my other breast drills after I got this one.


----------



## bandit571

Careful…these are addicting things found on the Rust Hunt









These are just as addicting…


----------



## theoldfart

Mine


----------



## BlasterStumps

Mine 


















It's in the freight so I'm crossing my fingers there. Also hoping the gears are okay. Won't know the condition of it for a couple more days.


----------



## bandit571

Along with a Millers Falls No. 120….have these two…









Behind the Made in France is a Goodell-Pratt….also have the chain drill for it..









And a G-P eggbeater…









Not too sure about the French drill….


----------



## bandit571

The G-P drill even had a logo..









otherwise, almost the same as the #120…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here's a North Bros 1455 that I have had for a while. I don't like it much the way it is now. It needs the speed shifter worked on. Tends to get locked up.


----------



## summerfi

> This MF driver is a beast, just sayin …
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Ha! You call that driver a beast? Have a look at my Yankee 2H. Now there's a real beast driver.










My 1555 looks a lot like Kevin's.


----------



## BlasterStumps

TOF, thanks for sharing the picture of the 1555. I guess I never realized the similarities and/or differences between the North Bros drills. I bet that 1555 is a heck of a drilling machine. The 1455 that I have will work nice once I get the gears shifted properly. I'm hoping I can clean up the 1545 and get it to work smoothly. Thanks again.
Mike


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nice drill Bob. They're big 'ol heavy things aren't they.


----------



## theoldfart

I like the ability to crank in either direction in a tight space and still have the bit going forward.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Millers Falls 29. Not sure what all bits I have that will work in it.


----------



## WayneC

> Yes it is, and it s highly recommended.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop
> 
> What is, hiding?
> 
> - BlasterStumps





















http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=57809&cat=":http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=57809&cat=


----------



## WayneC

I have several breast drills put away. This is what I have out.


----------



## bandit571

Had a handful of longer hex drive bits…..and just reground them to fit my Yankees….









Plus the Buck Rogers 1/4" size eggbeater….might have too many of these things….largest is a M-F No. 2-01…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Cool group of drills there Bandit. Can you have too many?

Looking more closely at the North Bros 1555 drills it seems there are subtle differences in their makeup. Bob's drill has a brass piece just before the main frame, possibly a thrust washer, whereas the drill tof shows doesn't appear to have brass in that location. Neither does the drill I just bought. Am I seeing things or is there also a difference in the cast metal crank handles?


----------



## theoldfart

I think Bob's is cleaner than mine. Also I think the side handle on mine is not original.


----------



## summerfi

The side handle on mine is not original either. I know because I made it.


----------



## BlasterStumps

An all-to-common problem with breast drills is broken gears. I wonder why. I know the 1455 that I have will get locked up due to the speed selector not working properly. I can see someone getting frustrated with that but, the broken gears happens to other makes and models as well. I would think a person would have to get awful rough with the drill to break the gear teeth.


----------



## WayneC

Or the material used in the gears is brittle.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Looks like you have a nice group of drills and bits/accessories Wayne. Cool to see them all hanging together like that.


----------



## theoldfart

Beware, I disassembled the speed selector on mine. It took hours and a lot of frustration to get it back together.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

I only have one eggbeater and she's my baby, I'm working on a MF no.5 but who the heck knows when I'll ever get it done.


----------



## WayneC

> Looks like you have a nice group of drills and bits/accessories Wayne. Cool to see them all hanging together like that.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Thanks. I found this to be a pretty good way to store them.


----------



## BlasterStumps

tof, I took one apart and never did get it to work again. : ( I won't be doing that again hopefully.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nice No 2 Nick. I doubt they were that nice brand new.


----------



## summerfi

Not mine, but I thought it was interesting.


----------



## summerfi

Another one.


----------



## WayneC

There are lots of cool strange drill variants out there. They make one with a wrench as well.


----------



## bandit571

One of 2 sizes Millers Falls made..









and








This expensive drill..









Might need a little clean up…


----------



## HokieKen

I also restored a MF #2 and a MF #5 which are my two user eggbeaters. Great drills. I don't have a pic of the 5 but here's the 2:


----------



## BlasterStumps

Bandit, I'm curious about the 104. Is it fairly smooth operating?

I had an early 104. I tried cleaning it up and the drive gear broke in three pieces. : (

Kenny, another great looking tool. Nice job.


----------



## WayneC

Beautiful drill Kenny. The trick is to find them with their bits.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

What's the trick to sharpening the bits that are unique to these egg beaters, Wayne? Haven't googled it, are there vids out there?


----------



## WayneC

> What s the trick to sharpening the bits that are unique to these egg beaters, Wayne? Haven t googled it, are there vids out there?
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


I've never sharpened one or googled it but I would think a diamond file would do the trick.


----------



## DanKrager

Smitty, I don't think there's any more trick to sharpening these than a more common twist drill. You just need a sharp cutting edge with a few degrees of relief behind it, and equal on both sides. I used a common drill bit fixture and it seemed to work to original specs with careful setup.

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

Smitty, for me sharpening the bits is simple. I leave those in the handle and use regular twist bits in the chuck  But like Dan said, I don't see why it would be any different than sharpening a twist drill.


----------



## WayneC

> Smitty, I don t think there s any more trick to sharpening these than a more common twist drill. You just need a sharp cutting edge with a few degrees of relief behind it, and equal on both sides. I used a common drill bit fixture and it seemed to work to original specs with careful setup.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Shop made fixture or one of the commercial fixtures like a drill doctor?


----------



## HokieKen

I have a Drill Doctor I inherited. Never have taken it out of the box. I need to figure out if it's worth keeping around or if it needs to go.

There are commercially available jigs like this one Wayne that are capable of good results using a bench grinder with proper setup.

Edit: FWIW, I've seen many guys free-hand bits on a bench grinder too and get good results. I'm not that good.


----------



## bandit571

The #104 works just fine…apparently was either little used, or well taken care of….was $5….and had 5 bits in the handle.


----------



## summerfi

Sharpening drill bits-I tried this method and it worked well for me.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Sharpening drill bits-I tried this method and it worked well for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - summerfi


Good example. I'm dreading trying it on the tiny bits in the handle of my Stanley eggbeater though. Maybe start with a bit file. Thanks for the inputs, everyone.


----------



## WayneC

My fear as well Smitty. That is why I was thinking of diamond hones…


----------



## HokieKen

A diamond hone or needle file should touch those drill points up quick and nice. Put some Sharpie on there and file to remove it at the edge. Same # of strokes on both flutes. Stay off the flutes, just sharpen the points.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I received the North Bros 1545 drill today. I did a little clean up and lube on it. No broken gear teeth! Chuck works smooth. The crank handle had to come off because the rod that goes thru it had to be straightened. It is a very quite running drill. No much slack in the drive gear. I will probably give the wood a coat of something. All-in-all I am pretty happy with it's condition. Here are a few more pics of it and one with the 1530A next to for a size comparison:


----------



## BlasterStumps

Sharing a couple pics of a Fray & Pigg 8" and Fray 107, and 108 along with my wall hanger Fray whimble brace. I like these drills for their simplicity and smooth operating.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Posting the above pictures, I was just trying to liven up this thread a little. : )


----------



## donwilwol

A Cole drill. Google says its somewhat rare.










And not sure why it's side ways. That's never happened before.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Looks interesting Don. Looks like maybe fits into a hole in the bench top? Or, does it have a foot? Let us know how it works if you try to drill with it.


----------



## HokieKen

Let's try this, my brain isn't very agile ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

Here's a video of one in action. Good lord I love my drill press so much


----------



## bigblockyeti

Man and I thought I was doing it the hard way hauling 42 tons of gravel with a little trailer in 23 trips vs. calling someone with two dump truck loads. Using that on purpose really is doing it the hard way!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

That video looks like way too much work. Gotta be a better, more stable setup for that drill to let it work more smoothly.


----------



## bandit571

Yes there was…









But, I didn't have the room for them…..or a line shaft drive..


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The Cole drill was belt driven, is that what you're suggesting? The comments in Ken's video link talk about a vice meant to hold the Cole in use.


----------



## bandit571

The one on the post had a motor mounted above that sheet metal guard…a wooden plank hold the drill press to the cinder block pilaster…


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Was that post drill a Cole that was modified?


----------



## WayneC

Very cool. The video explains why they are rare. I would think it would work better mounted to a bench. I'll have to find one.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> The video explains why they are rare.
> 
> - WayneC


Ain't that the truth!!


----------



## DLK

My google research seems to indicate that there was a Cole vise that went with the Cole drill. Also the Cole drill apparently delivers 1000 lbs of pressure and can drill through anything.










I'm not sure how it all fist together. But I think I would clamp the pipe end into the pipe vise and run the drill horizontally and not vertically as shown in the video. It would sure easier to crank that way.


----------



## WayneC

Very interesting. Was it primarily used for plumbing or some other trade? This could be similar in function to a chain drill.


----------



## bandit571

Maybe by Maintenance of Way crews, to drill rails for railroad tracks?


----------



## CFrye

Restoration video of the vise part of the Cole…




View on YouTube


----------



## donwilwol

I haven't found anything that says the vise and the drill actually works together. They may just be two tools by the same company. I haven't had much time to play with it. It's definitely not a tool for mass production. It seems it was somewhat popular with farmer's.


----------



## theoldfart

This is a railroad track drill


----------



## ToddJB

Was its job to drill holes for spikes? I assumed they just drove them in without a hole.


----------



## HokieKen

The one shown drills horizontally for fishplates to splice the ends of 2 rails Todd. That's awesome Kev. Never seen a gear version. The hydraulic ones they use now are pretty amazing.


----------



## donwilwol

You building some track Kevin?


----------



## theoldfart

Don, yes I am! We need to take up some track to facilitate tree removal. Then we'll put it back down again. I'm looking forward to learning how to do this.


----------



## bandit571

Kevin as a Gandydancer?


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, bit of a stretch?


----------



## bandit571

My Grandpa Lew was a Gandydancer…..sectionhand for almost 54 years ( D. T. & I.) until his speeder got clipped by a Big 4 passenger train, that was going about 80mph over the diamond at Morgan Tower, Quincy, OH….was to retire the following year…


----------



## Mr_Pink

I took a gamble on Fray no. 146 I found at an antique store. The ratchet mechanism is fine, but the "interlocking" jaws are frozen shut. If I can get the jaws unstuck, it will be my only (for now) brace larger than 10". Otherwise, it will be a $15 lesson in buying a brace.

Here it is next to a 10" Millers Falls for scale:


----------



## BlasterStumps

Kind of by accident, I found that soaking things in EvapOrust will cause frozen up parts to loosen. Soaking it some PB Blaster or WD-40 for a day should also free them.


----------



## JustplaneJeff

Hey Bandit, I purchased the old railroad building that used to be part of the big four railroad shops in Bellefontaine. You will have to come check it out, might even have a few old tools up there. Jeff


----------



## bandit571

May just do that….maybe even tomorrow? Any time frame?


----------



## bandit571

Something else..









2 Rummage sale finds….hammer is of interest….









Solid brass head…lettering appears to be: C.C.C. & St. L R.R. Been well used..









Or, abused. Screwdriver might be just an older Stanley?








Square shanked, fluted wood handle…( $0.25 for the screwdriver, $2 for the hammer)


----------



## ToddJB

How deep does the hole go? Looks drilled, not worn.


----------



## Bluenote38

Cleveland, Cincinnati, Chicago and St. Louis Rail Road I was told by a friend that had one similar from B&O RR that it is a Valve Hammer to bang on sticky valves - not sure how true that is but he was really in to all things Steam Rail Roads


----------



## bigblockyeti

^ Makes sense, you wouldn't want to be banging on a valve that you cared about with anything that wasn't a much softer metal to keep from dinging things up.


----------



## JustplaneJeff

Bandit, would be really interested in buying the rr hammer from you if your thinking you could let it go. Would be nice to be home in its building


----------



## bandit571

Sure…


----------



## HokieKen

Rail workers still bang on stuck valves. At work, we were even asked some time back to make a drain valve for the brake pipe air reservoir that constantly had a small leak and leaked more when it was "jostled". Shaking and banging stuff on a locomotive just works ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Hammer has been sold to a Collector, today….

used to use a 2 pound Brass hammer, when I worked on Injection Molding machines ( Production Tech) as a steel hammer was Verboten!....8 yrs = 4 hammers….wore them out a bit too well…


----------



## Mr_Pink

> Kind of by accident, I found that soaking things in EvapOrust will cause frozen up parts to loosen. Soaking it some PB Blaster or WD-40 for a day should also free them.


So far, I've tried WD-40 and then Evaporust with no luck (although there's obviously less rust on it now).

Do you (or anyone) have experience with Fray chucks with interlocking jaws? I also removed the screws on the top and of the chuck, and that didn't help so far. I don't know if I'm missing something that's unique to this style of chuck, or if it's just unusually gunked up.


----------



## theoldfart

I've had good luck loosening seized parts with a solution of 50% ATF fluid and 50% Acetone. Let it soak for at least twenty four hours.


----------



## DanKrager

What TOF says. I can attest to the outstanding effectiveness of 50-50 way beyond any commercial stuff. A while back I even came across a "Top 10 rust solvent" review where in small print at the end of the article he confessed that the 50-50 mixture (not solution…for the purists) was not less than 10 times more effective than any of the trial solutions. Many times I wish I had saved that. I wonder how much trouble he got into for saying that? LOL!

DanK


----------



## Mr_Pink

I eventually got the chuck unstuck after a second dose of WD-40. It looked like the chuck had be packed with mud and rotten leaf debris (or something fibrous) before the jaws were last closed tight. It seems tools don't like being packed with muck and left to dry.

Once I unfroze the chuck, the interlocking jaws came out easily; however, I still haven't figured out how to disassemble the chuck further (or if it's even something I should try). I rinsed and brushed out the inside of the chuck as much as I could, and I'm going to clean the rust off of the rest of the brace before doing more with the chuck.

I read about the acetone and ATF mixture, but didn't have either on hand. If I hadn't gotten the chuck to budge when I did, I was going to give up on WD-40 in favor of some sort of home-brew solvent/oil solution.


----------



## WayneC

Bandit,

Just for the record, the screwdriver is sweet as well.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Glad to read that you got the jaws out. Does the drill have a large slotted screw holding the shaft in place? If so, you may be able to continue disassembly by taking the shaft out.


> I eventually got the chuck unstuck after a second dose of WD-40. It looked like the chuck had be packed with mud and rotten leaf debris (or something fibrous) before the jaws were last closed tight. It seems tools don t like being packed with muck and left to dry.
> 
> Once I unfroze the chuck, the interlocking jaws came out easily; however, I still haven t figured out how to disassemble the chuck further (or if it s even something I should try). I rinsed and brushed out the inside of the chuck as much as I could, and I m going to clean the rust off of the rest of the brace before doing more with the chuck.
> 
> I read about the acetone and ATF mixture, but didn t have either on hand. If I hadn t gotten the chuck to budge when I did, I was going to give up on WD-40 in favor of some sort of home-brew solvent/oil solution.
> 
> - Mr_Pink


----------



## Mr_Pink

> Glad to read that you got the jaws out. Does the drill have a large slotted screw holding the shaft in place? If so, you may be able to continue disassembly by taking the shaft out.


It does, but taking it out didn't help disassemble the chuck as far as I could tell. In any case, I got it cleaned as well as I could and put the jaws back in. The chuck doesn't hold round shanks as well as some of my other braces do, but otherwise it works well.

Here it is cleaned up:


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have a PEXTO 7008 with a similar chuck like yours. They are a little different. 
Looks like that Fray cleaned up nicely.


----------



## summerfi

I picked up this Millers Falls No. 97 at a yard sale last weekend. After a little cleanup it looks pretty nice. Weighs in at 8 lbs. 2 oz. and has about every option that a drill could have.


----------



## ToddJB

Except a power cord.

Looks like a nice one, Bob!


----------



## bigblockyeti

Bob, that thing oozes pimp juice!


----------



## HokieKen

Dang Bob, that bad boy is purrrrrdy! I have one of those (or at least some 2-speed MF breast drill) in a drawer waiting for restoration. It's been in there for at least 2 years so it ain't a rush but yours might spur me to action ;-) I've done a couple of MF eggbeaters that are users for me. I just can't think of a single time when I needed something like this so it never quite makes the "get er done" list….


----------



## CFrye

Bob, that is a beauty! The side handle looks original. Does it have the flat tip driver? Would you mind posting a pic of it off the drill?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Congrats Bob on the drill find. They seem a bit hard to find in that condition.


----------



## bigblockyeti

One that I have, the threads are a little sticky on the spindle or the chuck (1/2"-20 if I remember correctly) and I'm thinking of doing a resto-mod with a modern split sleeve keyless three jaw chuck. Would that be total blasphemy to do such a thing in the name of functionality?


----------



## ToddJB

I'm a firm believer that IF something modern is an improvement then go for it if it's a user.

Most of the time, I think they were better at making things back in the day, but there are exceptions to that rule. I think of things like adding helical cutter heads to jointers and planers, DROs and Kurt vises to mills, VFDs to pully style lathes. There are things that can make them better, and if those things were options back in the day, they probably would have done that too.


----------



## HokieKen

I'm totally with Todd Yeti. If it's gonna be in the shop and not a museum, make it functional by means of any improvement you like. I'm perfectly fine with a Hock or Veritas iron in my vintage planes. And I have a 1/4" bit holder adapter for my vintage push drivers.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Well I dug it out and the spindle is larger than 1/2" so the point is moot not. I forgot how nice it works other than the chuck not wanting to spin freely tightening and loosening the jaws on the spindle. It has dual cup and cone ball bearings on the spindle making it very smooth even under load. I don't have a side handle but fabbing one up shouldn't take too long. I also forgot it's missing a spring or two from the chuck to hold the jaws in place.


----------



## summerfi

> Bob, that is a beauty! The side handle looks original. Does it have the flat tip driver? Would you mind posting a pic of it off the drill?
> 
> - CFrye


Candy, as far as I can tell, all parts are original. I'm assuming you're talking about the side auxiliary handle and not the crank handle, correct? I'm not sure what you mean by a flat tip driver, though. I don't think it does, but if you can help me understand what I'm looking for, and it has one, I'll gladly post a pic.


----------



## theoldfart

Bob, Candy. maybe this will help. My breast drill is a Yankee similar to Bobs MF.










The side handle doubles as a screwdriver for changing the orientation of the top plate.










These drills were designed to work in tight spaces, cars, trucks, railroad equipment. Sometimes there was only enough room to allow for one orientation. Moving the breast plate allowed this.


----------



## HokieKen

Well I'll be danged. Thanks Kev


----------



## CFrye

What Kevin said.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Candy, are you planning to make a side handle with the screwdriver tip? I have one that came with one of the shoulder drills I have. I almost looks like someone threaded the wood handle with some NF threads and then ran a bolt in probably with some epoxy on the threads. Then they cut the head of the bolt off and fashioned a flat screwdriver tip at about 1/2" out from the wood. Looks like it would be fairly easy to do if you are making a handle.


----------



## summerfi

Ahhh, OK, now I see. My MF breast drill is not made that way. It has a thumbscrew on the breast plate to provide for that adjustment.


----------



## CFrye

Bob, my 97 has the same kind of knurled knob as yours. 
The side auxiliary handle is threaded onto mine and, I thought, it is used to change the orientation of the crank handle.








borrowed from Old Tool Heaven website
Mine has a homemade replacement and no driver tip. Yes, I would like to make a side handle with the screwdriver tip.
Also, The crank on my poor 97 is wonky, not really usable in any orientation.
Pics to follow…


----------



## CFrye




----------



## summerfi

Mine doesn't have a screwdriver tip, and I'm pretty sure it's original. I wonder if that varied based on year of manufacture. The angle of the crank handle is also changed with a knurled thumb screw.


----------



## CFrye

> Mine doesn t have a screwdriver tip, and I m pretty sure it s original. I wonder if that varied based on year of manufacture. The angle of the crank handle is also changed with a knurled thumb screw.
> 
> - summerfi


Same slotted/knurled thumb screw as on the one here. Maybe the screwdriver tip wasn't on all models (1922-1930 model here). I can't remember where I read about the tip. Perhaps the bolt is original and just the wood has been replaced. 
After seeing your 97, I think mine is suitable for parts! LOL


----------



## DonBroussard

Bob-She's a beauty! Looks like it just came off the shelf in an old hardware store.

I have a Yankee 1555 with the side handle missing. It was new to me that the side handle also served as a screwdriver to re-orient the breast plate. Looks like I need to find a proper side handle now. Thanks for the lesson!


----------



## KentInOttawa

I recently won a bid on eBay for an eggbeater with a 3-jaw chuck. Unfortunately, the spring for the jaws was missing. Can one of you show me a picture of what the spring(s?) should look like? Here's the jaw's it has:









Also, where would I find springs for this or how would I make them if that's even possible?


----------



## DanKrager

Kent, I'm gonna bet that a spring from a ball point pen would fit in those holes. Cut it to length x 3. If that doesn't work, many hardware stores have a selection of compression springs.

Yes, it is possible to make them, but you would have to have a source for the wire. Even the finest piano wire may be too big.

DanK


----------



## CFrye

Dan, I have wondered about that (using pen springs) and have been saving them for a while (don't tell Mudflap). I don't go through as many pens since we went to electronic charting at work.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Dan & Candy, thanks. I'm off to root through the kitchen junk drawer for some parts. I'm sure everyone knows the drawer that I'm talking about ;-)


----------



## DLK

> I recently won a bid on eBay for an eggbeater with a 3-jaw chuck. Unfortunately, the spring for the jaws was missing. Can one of you show me a picture of what the spring(s?) should look like? Here s the jaw s it has:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, where would I find springs for this or how would I make them if that s even possible?
> 
> - Kent


I bought Compression Springs 0.5" Long, 0.125" OD, 0.093" ID part number 9657K266 from McMaster-Carr,
they also have them in Stainless Steel.


----------



## DanKrager

Got the box on the right today. Was so excited to find an entire set (less one) of 101s. Probably paid a premium price, but given the length of time I've been looking and the rarity, I didn't hesitate when Ebay notified me. The boxes are a good match, too. 









So I have the following shown to pick from in trade for a RJ 101 6/16:
2 - Irwin 6/16
1 - RJ Stanley 100 10/16 
1 - Superior cast steel 12/16 welded extension
1 - Keen Kutter 10/16 at 16" long

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, nice grab on the 101's.


----------



## bandit571

Found out this afternoon…..









That when the normal Tap wrench is MIA, that Stanley 6" sweep brace will do the job just fine….Needed to drill and tap two bars….









To make a pair of Stock Rests for a Stanley Mitre Box…..No.358….
Brace held the tap securely…no sign of any slippage. 5/16" x 18 threads.


----------



## bandit571

Tap wrench came back home..finally..









Boss bought an umbrella for the front porch….so I needed to drill a large hole through the top railing of the deck..









Pexto #8012, Samson chuck. Expansive Bit was sold as a Craftsman. 









had to set the diameter to match that collar…seemed to work









Once the snail ran out of the bottom of the railing, bit stopped cutting….chisel to knock out the thin wafer left over.
Wasn't enough room, and I can't get down that far anymore…to come up from under the railing…


----------



## bandit571

Barn Sale this morning…just missed getting a corner brace drill….and passed on this drill press..









$20..but was missing the crank handle…









Was too much missing here…had to settle for these other 2…









Figure between these two, I can get one good drill…


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, I would've jumped at the post drill!

The drill on the left is double pinion, a really good configuration. Nice get!


----------



## bandit571

Double pinion is a "Pilot USA No. 55" Something about …"Con----" "tool works" "New York" "USA"?

Waiting on a coat of red paint to dry on the gear wheel. Pilot logo looks like a ship's wheel.

Hmmmm.

Chuck seems to have all it's jaws, and seem to have the springs inside….has a screw/bolt in the side of the chuck.

Frame has been cleaned..looked like it was black….paint? Japanned? Chef's hat knobs for both handles…


----------



## bandit571

Paint is dry, cleaned off of where it doesn't belong..


















Pilot No. 55…









fancy handles. Picked up a reamer for a dollar, today..









A tad rusty, but cleaned up nicely…









The L.L.Lord Co. of Meadville, PA No.3….3/8" - 1-1/2" are the markings…


----------



## RWE

I went to a home in the country side near Birmingham. I was to pick up an iron bed for my daughter. Did that. Lady mentioned that they were clearing out the house since her father was moving to a rest home. I said, do you perhaps have any old tools? She said yes, but they probably were all sold in the estate sale. Why don't you go up and look at the workshop in the garage attic. I did and it was cleaned out except for two shop made drawers in the workbench. I rummaged through, saw some socket chisels, no handles, some bits, a trammel point set, lots of files and rasps.

They were destined for the dump. I put the contents of the two drawers into a cardboard box and offered the lady $30.00 for what looked to be a box of rust. I am still processing, but I did pretty good. There was some history in her family that meant some of the tools could go back to a famous Civil War arms maker from Georgia.

So I am trying to see if any one on here knows the time period when these bits were made and used. I know three of the chisels were very early Peck Stowe and Wilcox branded P S & W. I think that they would go back as far as the founding of the company in the 1860 range as I recall. More likely late 1800's and early 1900's. Pexco became the trademark in 1928, so that is a fixed boundary.

So what about these bits?? Any experts out there? What time period were they used and what term would you call them. All I ever collected or saw were augur bits. I have a small collection of Jennings and Jennings Pattern bits, lots of Irwin bits, but here in the sleepy south, I have never seen these.

I think these are "spoon" bits. Saw Roy Underill do a show on chairmaking where he demoed how you can alter the angle of the hole easily with these bits. What time period for those?










Bandit called these "center" bits. What time period and would you agree on that term. They have the shape of a spoon bit, but have twist and a tiny snail. 



























I don't know what term to use for these modern looking drill bits that are made for braces?









I do know a flat head screw driver though:









This all may be common as dirt, but I don't know about it if so. Help me out with time periods and terms.


----------



## bandit571

Second and third photos are Gimlet bits, not center bits. And, they do drill fast….

photo #5 is metal drilling bits….I have almost a full set of them….been using one as a pilot hole drill bit.

Yep, all are for use in a brace drill. Spoon bits were the earliest bits made….

"Center" bits look about like a modern spade bit…and came as an "improvement" to the spoon bits…










3/8" Gimlet….sometimes, they stuck a wood handle on them..









One of those metal drilling bits…I use screws to hold the backs of drawers together in the dados…I drill a pilot hole with this bit, then, flip the drawer side over, to counter sink the holes from the outside…with a second brace drill…









Why change bits, when I can just change drill and all…









Dado via a Stanley No. 45….


----------



## theoldfart

The three with the twisted tip are called gimlet bits. The other two I think are spoon bits. The modern looking ones are twist bits set up for a brace.


----------



## woodcox

Thanks, Bandit. I've had some holes where a brace would have been nice cutting threads in. 









I gathered a couple things to make chuck springs once. After 20 or so drills to the pile,I wound up with extra springsjust when I needed them. If I recall, george's basement had some tutelage with this and music wire. A manual lathe tool spring winder. Essentially clamps the wire in brass and held to a mandrel with the wire threaded through providing tension. I never looked for the wire. An alignment punch set was bought to be held on the lathe for mandrels. H Jorth lathe & tool co. Boston. This is the smaller of the two winders I've seen from them. The petal shaped brass piece index's to another position, of six, to adjust the wrap spacing to the next.


----------



## RWE

Thanks for the info fellows, on the bits. I am guessing the spoons could be mid and or late 1800's tools. The gimlet bits I would think would have followed later in time, late 1800's or early 1900's. Are gimlets pretty common in your area.

Did anyone actually use the metal bits in a brace?? I can't imagine that would work, rpms and such not fast enough. I guess if the metal were soft, it would work. The ones that are very short caught my eye as being good for pre-drilling for nails or screws with a very nice built in depth stop, like you show on the drawer screws.

I did also get a countersink bit with the collection. I am keeping it chucked up in one of the braces for quick access. I will post a picture of it and my braces later. I tried to get 4 braces with different sweeps.

The reason I am trying to date this stuff was to satisfy my curiosity as to whether any of the items may have been owned and passed down by Samuel Griswold who is famous for making pistols. Those pistols are now collectible and sell for 30-50k each.






https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Griswold

The folks I got this from were direct heirs of his. He died in 1867, so I guess the chances are remote. Not that it matters, but seemed logical that he might have such items. They probably date to the next generation after him, his sons.


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm..









Have a decent set of the metal drilling bits, and have used them…


----------



## bandit571

A better picture?









Might be one or two others floating around in the shop….

Question: What machine do these bits..









Fit? I have nothing in my shop that fits those tapered shanks….seem to be a Morse Taper? maybe a drill press of some sort? large ones are 35/64", medium two are..15/32' would have to look up the skinny one's size…
Morse of New Bedford, Mass. ? High-Speed Co. ?


----------



## DanKrager

Bandit, I recognize four bits to have a #2 Morse taper with an anti-spin tab at top. The little one looks like a #1 Morse taper. (Adapters are cheap). These are metal working bits designed for use in a large drill press or vertical mill with R-8 to MT adapter. They are supposed to align center lines consistently (minimize run out) and thus drill more accurately. In a clean environment they seat solidly and have to be removed with a drift pin. Those are nice!

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

I've been on a Yankee acquisition spree of late. the two latest additions were a 8" 2101brace and a two jaw 540 hand drill.


----------



## bandit571

Followed me home the other day…









letting things soak awhile….might get around to rehabbing it later this week…10" sweep…


----------



## RWE

Kevin: Beautiful hand drills. Are they North Brothers or what brand? The only brand I have seen with Yankee in the name was a North Brothers Yankee drill that I picked up.

Bandit: That looks like a Millers Falls? Should clean up nicely I bet.


----------



## theoldfart

RWE, all three on the bench are North Bros: I have three others as well. I'm really impressed with their construction and smooth operation.


----------



## woodcox

Kevin, have you tried an auger bit in the hand drill? I assumed they were for metal twist bits.


----------



## theoldfart

WC, I'm experimenting with dowel bits. Tying to see if this setup works with the Stanley 59/60 dowel guide. I'm looking to get a set metal bits to fit two jaw chucks.


----------



## bandit571

Have the brace all cleaned up (film later),,,from what I can make out of the letters stamped (barely) on the one arm…

P.S. & W CO.

"alligator"style jaws still have their spring….ratchet selector has been derusted, and a little work to free it up…works fine, now….


----------



## bandit571

And cleaned up..









ratchet wheel is still leaking rusty oil…









Selector has 2 pins, one above, one below….alligator jaws..









Still have the spring…works nicely…









Even on round shank bits…









Only 2 screws for the wood head….there is a hole, either for ball bearings to fall out, or a drop of oil to go in…









Might be a PS&W Co. brace…or a 30-34 series Millers Falls….hardwood handles…


----------



## bandit571

Hmm..$0.25 for an Irwin #900?









Picked it up today…along with a 6" No.3 phillips by Stanley…also a quarter..









The Stanley completes a set I have….the Irwin? Might come in handy?


----------



## P89DC

Here's what I've accumulated over the last three decades:










Homemade handle:




































Just picked this up yesterday:



























Full drawer, need to sell a few to make room for different sweeps:


----------



## theoldfart

This is not a plug for this sale but the case is ingenious,


----------



## donwilwol

Thats pretty cool.


----------



## DanKrager

I like that brace and bits case. Using the brace handle for the case tote is truly a novelty.

DanK


----------



## HokieKen

That case looks like something HO Studley would have made


----------



## CFrye

> I like that brace and bits case. Using the brace handle for the case tote is truly a novelty.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


I missed that detail, Dan! 
For posterity…


----------



## bandit571

Relatives?








Front to rear: 
Pilot No. 55
Craftsman ( Goodell-Pratt?)
Millers Falls no. 2-01









Hmmm..


----------



## theoldfart

Someone just got a heck of a deal on EBay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Russell-Jennings-Spur-Brace-Auger-Drill-Bit-Set-in-Wood-3-tier-case-/392344252395?hash=item5b598a2feb%3Ag%3ASzoAAOSw3jFdL15Y&autorefresh=true&nma=true&si=I1XEw5IDTp1dgToH%252F9%252Bd6hX%252B294%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Look closely and you'll see, for one, it has 14 bits so it is early for Russel Jennings, and two, the box has a lift out tray for the first layer. I've haven't seen that before. Price was cheap considering.


----------



## DanKrager

TOF, I may be old but my eyes still have some life.  The "lift out try" is broken away from its hinged back which is barely visible remaining on the stack. 
.
.
.
.
.
Wait. I understand like a grownup now. Satire.

Still a "you suck" kind of deal.

DanK


----------



## DLK

One of those bits looks like an Irwin to me.


----------



## DanKrager

Yup, one of those is not like the others.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Dan, better eye than mine. Yea last bit on top was not a RJ.


----------



## bandit571

We have work to do…









Need pilot holes drilled….for tiny screws….


----------



## Ocelot

RWE,

Re your spoon bits. I saw that ToolsForWorkingWood sells spoon bits. They may have some history on there site.

-Paul


----------



## RWE

Paul:

Thanks for the link. I have heard about Gramercy Tools previously because their holdfasts have a good reputation and there was an article about them in either Popular Woodworking or Fine Woodworking several years back.

I will explore their site a bit and see what I can find out.


----------



## bandit571

Roy Underhill did an episode on the Woodwright's Shop….covering almost all the types of drill bits…" A Boring Show"


----------



## bandit571

Price on the metal box said $8….got it for $6…









Why? Well, when you open the lids….









There are a few "gems" in there, too…









2 countersinks, 2 screwdrivers, and a fancy 5/8" drill bit….Largest of the auger bits is 1-1/4"...









that Irwin expansive bit is missing the sliding cutter…might be rough to replace?









These might take a while to clean up….including a set of Masonry drill bills…
Might be worth the $6?


----------



## RWE

Bandit:

I guess you are now a boring fellow as well now, like ole Roy. I had a similar find a few pages back. I keep a countersink bit chucked up in the smallest sweep brace (6 or 8 inches I think) and use it all the time. Good find.


----------



## bandit571

Two of the bits are bright and shiny..chromed? 
One is stamped: Midway Tool Co. of Melvin, OH
One is stamped: MY-T-CO..also of Melvin, OH

HmmmThat larger counter sink bit? Is by Merit…..There is a very sharp #2 bit ( 1/4") that I have cleaned up, and gave a spin in a brace….

Will do an inventory this weekend. Some of the bits still have the square ends…and a few do not…

Off to look up "Melvin, OH"....."melvin", melvin?


----------



## Brit

Today is a good day. I've been drooling over Marples Ultimatum braces for years. I've looked closely at dozens over the years, but the seller has either been asking too much for the condition or I'd already spent my tool budget. I have bid on a few though, but always lost. Well today I saw and bought this very clean example. It coincided with getting a bonus at work, so I thought it was now or never and what's more I deserve it. LOL.

Seller's pics:


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, buff it up or keep the patina?
Beautiful brace.


----------



## summerfi

That's a beauty, Andy. Looks like it's been sitting on a store shelf for the last 100+ years. Congrats, and yes, you deserve it.


----------



## Brit

Kev - I'm thinking I might keep the patina, but I'll decide once I have it in my hands. Sometimes I like to give these kind of tools a light clean and then let the shine go off a bit if you know what I mean. We'll see.

Thanks Bob. I'm stoked.


----------



## Brit

Apparently it is post 1876 and before 1900 when production ceased. Joel at TFWW wrote a blog about the Ultimatum brace and referenced Reg Eaton's "The Ultimate Brace" book. The Hibernia trade mark makes it post 1875 and the fact that William has the second 'i' makes it post 1876. Interestingly though mine is missing the 'r' at the end of manufacturer so I don't know if that narrows it down a bit more.


----------



## bandit571

Cleaned up a few bits,from this mess..









To, this mess..









Might be a few keepers…needed to put a few drills away, too









Some my bench could be used..again..









have another refurb project underway..


----------



## Brit

What is the best way to sharpen the countersinks that Bandit cleaned up? I guess a little diamond hone would do it, but just wondered if anyone had another approach.


----------



## Brit

Good luck with the bench Bandit.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I like seeing the pictures of your shop Bandit. It is a working shop and a pleasure to see the type of projects you do there. My wife and I are still trying to get the shop built that we have been planning but our deck project had to come first. I hope if I do get a space to spread out my tools, that I can take on some furniture projects and different things too.


----------



## donwilwol

That's pretty nice Andy. I seen a brace like that at a flea market yesterday. It was made of ebony. I picked it up but slowly set it back on the table when the price tag read $485.

I did get this though. A Goodall Pratt. The rosewood is gorgeous. I don't usually pick these up but for $2 with the handle full of bits. Unfortunately they're just regular twist bits, but hey.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nice find Don, especially for that amount. I like the GP drills.


----------



## BlasterStumps

My latest ($10) addition to my addiction: (Seller's picture) Should have it by end of week. Looked like teeth are still all there. There is shipping on top of purchase price though.


----------



## DLK

> What is the best way to sharpen the countersinks that Bandit cleaned up? I guess a little diamond hone would do it, but just wondered if anyone had another approach.
> 
> - Brit


Yes a Diamond hone will work and I have done that. However I bet an auger file is what you should use. I will try it this evening.


----------



## theoldfart

Blaster, great get. Should clean up really well. That is my main large drill.


----------



## KentInOttawa

I needed to bore a 3/8" hole today, so I robbed the chuck springs from my non-vintage eggbeater and put them in this older, larger, 2-speed eggbeater. What a dream it is to use.










I still need to repair the "lid" for the bits in the handle, but that's for another day.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Kent, is that a 5-1/2 GP drill? Looks elegant.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks "tof". I'm thinking it is in better shape overall than the 1545 I found a while back. 


> Blaster, great get. Should clean up really well. That is my main large drill.
> 
> - theoldfart


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Kent, is that a 5-1/2 GP drill? Looks elegant.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Maybe. Everything matches up with what I found on Time Tested Tools (thanks, Don W), except that mine has a complete lack of manufacturer's info on it. All of the photos that I've seen show this text on the crank handle; mine doesn't have it. Either way, it is a dream to use.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Okay, now I'm convinced that it's a Goodell Pratt 5 1/2. As you can see, it also needs some love.









The cap was fitting very loosely, and it broke one of the times that it fell off and bounced on the concrete floor. It's a clean break, so everything was glued back together.









Since the repaired cap was still very loose, I cut it into 2 pieces and reglued it back together. Theoretically, that should make it smaller (with a circumference 2 saw kerfs smaller). Since I used a small Japanese rip saw, that saw kerf is really small, so that didn't do much.









This wood is very dark and fine-grained. It has a texture like a wooden pencil, but it is harder. Does anyone know what species this is?









The cap is still loose after it was reglued. Should I just keep sawing it apart and regluing it to make it smaller, or is there another way to achieve this that is eluding me?


----------



## bandit571

Maybe wrap a shaving around the male threads, enough to make the cap tight, add a layer of glue to the OUTSIDE of the shaving….tighten the cap. later, remove the cap, and trim if needed. Shaving stays inside of the cap.


----------



## bandit571

So…Mitre Box project is done…next?









Well, there is this box to do…both the outside needs done, and..









What is inside..needs cleaned up, and sorted…there was some "gems"in there..









Will see what the rest turn out to be….contents have been on "soak" while I worked on the Mitre Box….
Maybe after Knee Rehab today…I can get started?

From a year ago..









Goodell-Pratt 2 speed drill..









Still has a label, too…Also..









Also a Goodell-Pratt, chain drive drill
And..









A G-P eggbeater. I'd have to go to the shop, and dig it out, model no. was stanped on the crank.


----------



## summerfi

> The cap is still loose after it was reglued. Should I just keep sawing it apart and regluing it to make it smaller, or is there another way to achieve this that is eluding me?
> 
> - Kent


I don't know if this would work, but it's an idea. Place plastic kitchen wrap over the male threads. Apply epoxy to the female threads. Screw together until the epoxy sets. Unscrew and remove the kitchen wrap.


----------



## DLK

> Since the repaired cap was still very loose, I cut it into 2 pieces and reglued it back together. Theoretically, that should make it smaller (with a circumference 2 saw kerfs smaller).


Yes but no longer round, still loose in the direction of he saw kerf but a bit tighter perpendicular to the saw kerf.
Theoretically cutting it into quarters (or more pieces) would be better, but the result will be uglier. I might try what Bob said with the epoxy.


----------



## bandit571

Emptied this box, this morning,,,spread all the "goodies" out on the bench…









But wait, there's more..









And a few more..









Wonder if they were used in a breast drill? 









Rogue's Gallery…cleaned up to see what they were…will toss the concrete bit, has a junk out of the tip…









Irwins, middle one came with the box…missing the cutter. The smaller one is a #1, the larger one is a #22…wonder IF Irwin sells replacement cutters for the #21? 
Box is now empty..









Strange looking box…will dry it out, clean it inside and out…new paint job…

May toss out any duplicates…keeping the sharper ones…


----------



## CFrye

Put all the unwanted bits in a pile, Bandit. Then give 'em to a fledgling blacksmith. They'd probably love to have some of that vintage steel to play with!


----------



## P89DC

> This wood is very dark and fine-grained. It has a texture like a wooden pencil, but it is harder. Does anyone know what species this is?


Cocabolo?


----------



## KentInOttawa

> This wood is very dark and fine-grained. It has a texture like a wooden pencil, but it is harder. Does anyone know what species this is?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cocabolo?
> 
> - Eric


Thanks. That allowed me to search and find this page on GP drills. It tells me that you are correct.


----------



## Brit

> The cap is still loose after it was reglued. Should I just keep sawing it apart and regluing it to make it smaller, or is there another way to achieve this that is eluding me?
> 
> - Kent
> 
> I don t know if this would work, but it s an idea. Place plastic kitchen wrap over the male threads. Apply epoxy to the female threads. Screw together until the epoxy sets. Unscrew and remove the kitchen wrap.
> 
> - summerfi


My guess is that the kitchen wrap would stick to the epoxy, but more concerning to me would be the fact that I wouldn't know whether screwing the cap on had disturbed or snagged the kitchen wrap allowing the epoxy to come into contact with the male threads so that it would then never come off.


----------



## Brit

> Since the repaired cap was still very loose, I cut it into 2 pieces and reglued it back together. Theoretically, that should make it smaller (with a circumference 2 saw kerfs smaller).
> 
> Yes but no longer round, still loose in the direction of he saw kerf but a bit tighter perpendicular to the saw kerf.
> Theoretically cutting it into quarters (or more pieces) would be better, but the result will be uglier. I might try what Bob said with the epoxy.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Kent did say he made 2 saw kerfs so I assume they were at right angles to each other, thus reducing the circumference (kind of).


----------



## Brit

*Kent* - If you have any spray lacquer or hair spray, spray the male threads. If it is very loose, you could even give the male threads a coat of varnish. Make sure it is totally dry before trying it. At least coating the threads with something you are evenly increasing the circumference all the way around.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Thanks to one and all for the input.

Here's a shot after glueing in the broken piece, then cutting it apart and regluing it back together, twice. Each saw cut produced 2 kerfs around the perimeter. The 2 cuts were made at 90 degrees to each other and I split the broken piece with one of the cuts.










The male threads appear much rougher and crumbly than this photo shows.










After some scraping and sanding, here's the current state. The original finish was almost black. The sanding shows the grain nicely, but the glue lines are still noticeable, although not as bad as this photo implies.










The cap fits much better now and it won't fall off, but it doesn't feel quite right when it's fully screwed on. It feels like it needs to be screwed tighter, but I fear that screwing it tighter may damage the threads or break the cap. I'm probably just going to hot-glue the lid on until I'm ready to deal some more with it.

Bandit - your drill appears to be a GP 329


----------



## donwilwol

try a layer of masking tape to tighten the threads.


----------



## OleGrump

Been away from this thread for a little bit, so I've missed some of the recent topics. I see that spoon bits came up not too long ago. Got some in a big lot of less common brace bits from Flea Bay several years ago, along with some center bits, shell bits and the like.
I also bought a small set of modern produced "chair maker's spoon bits" right around 2000 (I think for the "Y2K Tool Kit" of traditional tools available at that time…) I have used them from time to time, more for fun than anything else. Thought you guys would get a kick out of the latest purpose for which I used one:
About two weeks ago, I was looking through a small group of "Dimestore" lead soldiers that I have. Some were made with separately applied tin helmets which have often been lost over the last 75-80 years. No one makes reproductions anymore. SO, I bored a hole in a block of wood with a spoon bit, so it would have a nice round bottomed cavity. Took some pieces of coffee can tin and pounded them into the hole using a small ball peen hammer to keep the shape, creating the dome of the World War I style helmets. The remaining edges were pounded flat and trimmed to size and shape, allowing the doughboys to return to combat.
If I hadn't had a nice round ended spoon bit, I wouldn't have been able to do this so easily.

"Education is a wonderful thing, without it, you have to use your HEAD……"


----------



## Just_Iain

Can anyone send me a link for information on Millers Falls 6" throw brace drills? The chuck is petite and like wouldn't take anything larger than 1/4" bit. Photos to follow as the wife wants to head out for dinner.


----------



## theoldfart

Here

http://oldtoolheaven.com/brace/brace.htm


----------



## Just_Iain

Thanks Old Fart. It appears to be a 714.

From http://oldtoolheaven.com/brace/brace5.htm

Nos. 710 - 714; 710A - 713A

Holdall brace, non-ratchetingHoldall Brace, non-ratcheting

Model nos. designated 'A' were equipped with a steel clad, ball bearing head.

1912 - cocobolo head and handle; ball bearing head; wrist handle rides on adjustable bearings and steel rings prevent splitting; nickel plated; Holdall chuck with Leland's universal jaws.
1914 - as above, but head and handle of tropical hardwood.
Although at least one example exists. The No. 714 did not appear in the company's catalogs. A short-lived product, this series is the non-ratcheting version of Nos. 730-734.

More information on the Holdall brace. Illustration from 1913 catalog.

Model No. Sweep Start Date End Date
No. 710 14 inch 1912 1915
No. 710A 14 inch 1912 1915
No. 711 12 inch 1912 1915
No. 711A 12 inch 1912 1915
No. 712 10 inch 1912 1915
No. 712A 10 inch 1912 1915
No. 713 8 inch 1912 1915
No. 713A 8 inch 1912 1915
No. 714 6 inch 1912 1915

Yes, that's it fitting on a 8 1/2" x 11" sheet of paper. Cost was $15 and the tag at the Antique store listed it as a screwdriver._


----------



## bandit571

used the Goodell-Pratt to test drive a bit…









Seemed to hold quite well..









Since I was cleaning up a few bits..anyway..









And…









and….









Wonder IF I could take that Caftsman spade bit to Lowes..and get a new one..hmmm?
Took almost as long to clean me up, as it did cleaning the bits…









Maybe…


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nice little drill Iain. I like.

Bandit, I've been there many times with my hands looking like that. I use a citrus based hand cleaner first. Works good. 
BTW, good job on the clean up. Look nice.


----------



## OleGrump

This thread moved to a different forum, so I lost it for awhile. Been trying to play "Catch Up" with it I was very interested to see the post some ago about the Cole Drill press. this info may be of help:
About two years ago, I saw one of these set up, and demonstrated as it was for sale. Sadly, the cost was well out of my budget, but seeing it was very interesting and instructive.
This Cole system was quite a one stop shopping deal, with a swiveling vise, anvil, drill press, and I think one or two more uses. IN DRILL PRESS SET UP, the vise is swiveled to 90 degrees. The column of the drill press is inserted in the smaller holes, closest to the edge of the jaws of the vise and clamped in place. The material (I saw some bar steel) to be bored is placed on the fork and the handle cranked horizontally. The head is adjustable along the column for different thicknesses of material. Pretty damned spiffy. I sure wish I could have afforded the whole system the guy had.


----------



## Just_Iain

Okay Guys and Gals, I picked up a 10" sweep brace with is hard to make out but appears to be "RAB?S?" and Made in USA stamped on it. Any suggestions?


----------



## bandit571

May have been made by P.S. & W. ?

Samson chuck…I have a 12" version…#8012…..

BTW: That set screw on the large diameter part of the chuck? It keeps all those tiny ball bearings from falling out.


----------



## Just_Iain

Bandit,

Many Thanks. I'll go home and take another look. The loss of nickel and pitting is just enough to make it a guess what any letter or symbol is.

Iain



> May have been made by P.S. & W. ?
> 
> Samson chuck…I have a 12" version…#8012…..
> 
> BTW: That set screw on the large diameter part of the chuck? It keeps all those tiny ball bearings from falling out.
> 
> - bandit571


----------



## Tim457

> Well I dug it out and the spindle is larger than 1/2" so the point is moot not. I forgot how nice it works other than the chuck not wanting to spin freely tightening and loosening the jaws on the spindle. It has dual cup and cone ball bearings on the spindle making it very smooth even under load. I don t have a side handle but fabbing one up shouldn t take too long. I also forgot it s missing a spring or two from the chuck to hold the jaws in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - bigblockyeti


I didn't see any responses to this but I might have missed them. If I'm understanding what you're describing it might just be a matter of taking the chuck apart, cleaning, and oiling everything. That and replacing the springs and it should be good as new. I had good luck measuring the existing springs and buying the closest replacement I could.


----------



## DLK

Some organization:


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## HokieKen

Very nice Don! I wish my tool wall was so well organized


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## BlasterStumps

Yes, very nice Don. Cool picture. Nice selection of tools. Well done.


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## DLK

Thanks, I still need to find room for the breast drills. and the post drill. May be move the "non-drills" elsewhere, but I am running out of wall space. Incidentally sitting above what is pictured is a shelf of unrestored smoothing planes and sitting below is the dunlop lathe. To the right is the "cabinet" of drill and auger bits. I think when I get more boxes unpacked and some equipment disposed of I'll have more room. But that will not be until May. I have to leave soon and go back up north and finish my last year of teaching.


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## Brit

They look ready for action Don. Nicely done.


----------



## RWE

Just to give you some perspective. Look what 50 years of collecting can give you.









This picture is just one of the nooks in a gentleman's storage building that houses 50 years of collecting tools. I can not remember the number of braces precisely, but it was either 200 or 300.

There was a bin with augur bits. I could not even begin to speculate on the number, probably in excess of 2 or 3 hundred.

He had 8 or 10 Mitre Boxes, scores of planes, hundreds of wooden handled Stilson wrenches, 15 or 20 draw knives.

He was an extremely nice gentleman and kept the whole collection as a secret for fear of robbery. I got to tag along for a tour when my friend got a special invite to see the collection.

I like planes a lot. He had a Liberty Bell transistional, multiple Bedrocks, WinChesters, multiple wooden planes and moulding planes.

I told someone it was like being a kid and going to Disney World, just to see the range of things that he had collected.

If you are a "saw" guy, his collection of saws was not that great, but he had maybe 30 saw sets, 20 or 30 tools that hold the file for jointing the saw teeth.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Ironically (sorry), I count over 50 irons and still don't see any planes.

I can relate to your Disney World comment; I would have enjoyed that, too.


----------



## DLK

I am trying so hard not to collect and just acquire tools I will use. But its hard to pass up a $2 brace (I have with a couple of exceptions never paid more then $5 for a brace) or pass up a $15 to $25 smoothing plane. I have a box of plumb bobs I don't even know how I got.


----------



## bandit571

Or a $6 box of bits?









to….









This….then close the lid…









Keeps them clean, while sitting on the shelf…Might have room enough for the rest of my "loose" bits….


----------



## RWE

Ironically (sorry), I count over 50 irons and still don't see any planes.

I can relate to your Disney World comment; I would have enjoyed that, too.

I have about 20 pictures and each is a different aisle or nook in what had to be about two or three car garage bays of space. I just posted the braces for this thread.

It is a tremendous collection and full of all sorts of odd hardware. One item was a cherry stoner? It would extract the pits from cherries. Lots of metal toys.

I'll post the pictures of the planes on the Handplanes thread sometime soon. I have the addiction of going to Flea Markets and Antique malls myself. If I had been doing that for 50 years, maybe I could have amassed such a collection. Another interesting thing is that he stated that his brother in law has twice as much as he has.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Well, after a solid week and a half, I finally received my North Bros. 1555 today. I swear, that is the longest time I have waited on something in the freight for a long time. Oh well, it arrived in good shape and looks very promising to be a good drill once it is cleaned up and oiled and all that. Pictures to come once I get the crud off of it.


----------



## RobInVT

I recently helped begin cleaning out my wife's grandparents barn. We found many treasures including some old hand drills, two man saws, planes and levels just to name a few. Very cool things that haven't seen the light of day in 50+ years.


----------



## Bluenote38

Hey need some ideas on if/how to fix this. Jaws are spread by 3 springs one seems to be missing one is bent and twisted and the third looks good. Can I find replacement springs? Are they standard? And how do I extract the Jaws?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Wow Rob, those old tools look real good. Some fantastic old drills there including what appears to be a 1555.

What is in the wooden box?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Wished I knew the answer on the springs Bill but I don't. I saw someone post about using a ink pen springs. Don't know if that works or not. Once you get a good one out, try to match it, is all I can suggest.


----------



## RobInVT

I spent some quality time cleaning them up! The wooden box is empty. Not sure what it was used for, but I thought it was cool.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Bill,

I'm having a similar problem. I robbed this set of springs from a non-vintage drill for my older Goodell Pratt drill. There are some videos on Youtube that talk about making springs with music wire. My research shows it to be about a #7 or #8 size. Unfortunately, I haven't sourced a local supply, and international shipping will quadruple the cost from someplace like Howard's.


----------



## HokieKen

Bill - it looks like the springs from ball point pens might work? There's nothing critical about the springs really other than they need to fit and compress enough to allow the jaws to close fully. If you measure them and send me the measurements, I can see if I have anything in my "spring box". You might also be able to straighten out the bent/twisted one.

Same offer Ken. If you can send me measurements of the springs you need, I'll see if I can help you out. And I haven't forgotten about your screws either! ;-)

Edit: Bill, you should just be able to push the jaws out the back of the collar. Sometimes there's a small step to prevent them falling out.


----------



## Tim457

Great finds, Robin. I like the felling saws. What diameter are those T handle augers?


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Bill - it looks like the springs from ball point pens might work? There s nothing critical about the springs really other than they need to fit and compress enough to allow the jaws to close fully. If you measure them and send me the measurements, I can see if I have anything in my "spring box". You might also be able to straighten out the bent/twisted one.
> 
> Same offer Ken. If you can send me measurements of the springs you need, I ll see if I can help you out. And I haven t forgotten about your screws either! ;-)
> 
> Edit: Bill, you should just be able to push the jaws out the back of the collar. Sometimes there s a small step to prevent them falling out.
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks. Mine are 0.131" diameter (1/8") by .60 long (~5/8") with .019" wire.

Here's one technique for removing the jaws. It's so nice WHEN it works.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Not a whole lot to show but here are a couple pics of the North Bros. 1555 I bought recently. I just washed it with some safety solvent to try to remove 50 years of crud. The drill seems to be in pretty good condition.


----------



## DLK

I thought this was an interesting solution to the thread problems that the hand drill handle caps. (If you want a good user in your collection).










*The ebay seller writes:*

Millers Falls Model #980 Hand Drill

Up for Auction is a restored Millers Falls 980 hand drill. I love the look and mechanics of these old multi-speed drills. This one came to me with broken and missing wood handles and rough mechanical shape but the parts were good and the teeth were all intact. I took apart the whole drill. All wood handles were replace with Sapele (common replacement for mahogany) and turned from the same blank. Multiple coats of lacquer were applied and the show faces of the side and rear handle were hand polished. 2000 grit wet sand, auto buffing compound and Mothers anti swirl cleaner wax. The frame was stripped and repainted in traditional black. The main gear was stripped and repainted the original red color (as close as i could get to a match). The gears were all wire brushed. The shaft was removed and cleaned along with the races.New ball bearings were installed with lithium grease. The transmission was taken apart, cleaned and bearing surfaces were spruced up for smoother operation. The chuck was disassembled cleaned and the chuck keys were smoothed as was the inside of the chuck collar. I find that the wood threads in the rear handle usually are a problem so I turned that handle from a single piece, for grain match, and use a brass threaded insert. The chuck collar was buffed. I don't re-pin the handles in place. I believe handles are consumables. They should be easy to replace or fix. I guess that's why there are so many of them out there without or with broken ones


----------



## BlasterStumps

the wood of the crank handle of the 1555 will turn but not freely. I tried spaying some teflon spray into it and working it for a while but did not help much. It is usable but kind of an annoyance. Anyone run into this and if so, were you able to fix? The pin is slightly peened so getting it out will be fun. The wood being tight on the pin is due to dry climate I presume.


----------



## Brit

Blaster - if it is binding on the end grain of the handle, rather than remove the pin I would be tempted to shave a tiny slither off the end grain with a knife.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'll check it for that Andy but I am inclined to think the hole thru the wood handle is now too small diameter for the pin. My guess is that the wood has shrunk due to being out here in the dry climate but I will go have another look at it. My other North Bros. drill has a similar issue of being hard to turn the wood on the pin.


> Blaster - if it is binding on the end grain of the handle, rather than remove the pin I would be tempted to shave a tiny slither off the end grain with a knife.
> 
> - Brit


----------



## DanKrager

Blaster, there is a chair repair chemical whose name I cannot remember. It is used in situations where a tenon has become too loose in its mortise, especially on chairs. It swells the wood grain like water does and makes it "permanent". If this were injected into the handle hole along the pin, my guess is it would swell the wood and make it stay swelled, freeing up the handle. (I can smell the "humor" coming from a long way off.) There would be no harm in trying. If I could only remember the name.

DanK

Edit: ChairLok???


----------



## HokieKen

I've replaced the pin with a screw and some high strength locktite on a MF eggbeater Blaster. Then grind flush on the crank and grind the head off the top and peen as necessary.


----------



## HokieKen

Kent - sorry, no springs that small :-(


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Kent - sorry, no springs that small :-(
> 
> - HokieKen


Thanks for the offer and for looking. My search has lead me on a path towards winding my own. Fortunately, I'm not in a rush.


----------



## HokieKen

McMaster-Carr has springs that would work Kent. Not sure how their Canadian distribution is though…


----------



## Brit

Kent - I seem to remember winding my own spring once. If I remember correctly, I used a guitar string and wound it around a small bolt held in drill chuck. You have to keep the wire under tension as it winds and then you unscrew the spring from the bolt. You can wind it around the shank of a suitably sized twist drill too and then stretch the spring out as needed.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Took down the Millers Falls breast drill and put the North Bros. up there. Swapping drills out like that on the tool board must be something similar in nature to moving gnomes around in the garden. : )


----------



## theoldfart

Blaster, beware! The Yankees can be habit forming and i'm Not talking baseball here. A fellow LJ(WayneC) started me down the path. I've now replaced the 8",10",and 12" braces along with three others including yours.


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## Brit

Blaster - Tool wall is looking nice, but it is nothing like moving gnomes around in the garden.


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## bandit571

Yeah…this one didn't want to give up his root cellar ….


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## HokieKen

Blaster, I know a guy who has a preference for Millers Falls if you decide to let that one go ;-)


----------



## DLK

Kenny, You know two guys. ;-)


----------



## BlasterStumps

Just saw you guys' posts on The MF drill. That was my 120 or 120 B whatever it is that I switched out. : ) I doubt if you would want even the freight for it since they are everywhere. It's actually my user and is back up on the board. Sorry. The NB might be a user in the future but I need to resolve the handle issue first.


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## HokieKen

No worries Mike, I actually already have a 120! )


----------



## OleGrump

Funny you mention the "Cherry Stoner" in the gentleman's tool collection. I have one on display in my kitchen. I remember using this as a boy and teen at my grandparent's farm in Southern Maryland. There was a BIG cherry tree growing next to my grandfather's cabinet shop, and he rigged a wooden ladder to straddle the roof peak, so we could get up there and pick cherries.
Then we cranked on that old "Cherry Seeduh", in "Tidewater twang speak, until they were all pitted. I tell y'all what, the cherry pie we'd have later that evenin' was SOME KINDA GOOD. there were a couple of pies made, and the rest were canned.
This ranks right up there with settin' out at a picnic table and crackin' black walnuts from the tree across the drive from the shop. We used a big ol' claw hammuh to get those rascals open. My second brother now proudly owns the "walnut hammer"..... Sorry this isn't drills, but it crept up in here…….


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## RWE

The "Cherry Stoners" were very cool looking tools. One other odd thing he had was a sharpening system with hand cranks that had oval shaped stones. It was used to sharpen the blades of the old manual push mower blades. They were conical/football in shape. I am old enough to have experienced pushing one of those mowers. They worked quite well as I recall.

Quite a collection.
.


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## woodcox

I had to put a new saw till behind my bandsaw. Still cluttered but, we have made progress. Braces and breast drills are up.


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## OleGrump

A couple of houses ago, I had a very nice, large Buffalo Forge post drill, which I lost when the house was sold. (Insert several minutes of cussing here) A few years ago, I was able to find a smaller not as nice post drill pretty cheap, The metal table was seized on the rod, and I always planned to work on freeing it up and getting the whole machine back in service.
More "Life gets in the way of LIVING", more moving, separating, and all that crap. Wound up still having the head of the small post drill, but not the metal rod and seized platform. (Insert a few more minutes of cussing, here) Meanwhile, I've got a copy of the Popular Mechanics book "Forty Machines You Can Make". This book has some drill presses made from plumbing pipe. The idea now is to incorporate the post drill head into more of a bench top type drill press using the pipes as post and table support.. Probably going to be a PITA gettin' it done, but IF it works the way it's supposed to, it'll be a pretty nice little "cobbled up" machine. One benefit of this particular post drill head is the smallish flywheel is grooved for a belt, so it can be run either by hand or motive power.


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## OleGrump

BTW, I've used those push reel type lawn mowers at various houses. Like anything else, as long as they're sharp, they work well. You still don't want to mow a half acre with them, but they're great for average sized lawns. They even made quite a comeback about 10 years ago, when gas got up over $5.00 a gallon.


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## bandit571

Maybe I'll find another table like this…









Maybe….Labor Day Weekend Tractor Fest is just around the corner..









We'll see…









maybe I'll have a bit more change in me pocket?


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## OleGrump

As luck would have it, I just won a 26 1/4 inch tall no-name two speed bench mounted drill press on Ebay, after making an offer somewhat below the asking price. I included a politely worded note (I can "act nice" when I'm s'posed ta) explaining that the offer I submitted was based on estimated cost of repair to the piece. Since a corner of the base mounting plate is broken off, and a few other more minor issues, and the fact that it's been listed multiple times without selling, I guess they thought it best to accept my offer. WOO-HOO!!!
I hope I can get the camera and the computer to cooperate when this baby arrives, so I can share photos with the gang. I can foresee spending half of a few nights playing with, uh, I mean "WORKING ON" this fine vintage machine. I'm really intrigued to figure out how to shift gears, and the spring driven advance mechanism on this drill. Hot diggedy damn!!! !








!





































Ha Ha ! Was able to get some pix from the Ebay listing. If any of y'all have any information about this beast, I'd be very glad to hear it ! Christmas came right early to "Grump Ville"......


----------



## OleGrump

Dog Gone it! These things just never wanna post right:


















Hopefully these photos will help y'all identify this press, or possible makers of it, and maybe some practical info on operating it.


----------



## OleGrump

Here are a couple more that might help someone ID this beast:




























the advancing mechanism is spring activated, original spring missing, but it attaches to the lever moved by the cam on the gear wheel.


----------



## OleGrump

There has been a suggestion that this is a Millers Falls, along the line of a 226. She arrived today, and the gear wheel was once originally painted red. May have had a decal at one time. The work table 6" wide by 6 5/8 deep has two tee slots in it. The head, table and base plates are held by hex head, rather than square head bolts, also indicating a newer drill press. The search for a more positive ID continues.
Until I can replace the spring, I have been able to disengage the automatic advance mechanism, and just advance the chuck using the handwheel every few cranks.
Had to stretch the budget a bit and after a lot of consideration, I'm glad I went ahead and bought this contraption. I'm sure I will enjoy using it for years.


----------



## OleGrump

Many years ago now, I joined the Arbor Society, and was sent ten twigs, which were labeled to be various trees. I planted them in carefully chosen spots and tended to them faithfully. All of them were dead within a few weeks….. 8-(


----------



## CFrye

Looking forward to seeing that cleaned up and put to work, OleGrump!
We did the same thing with the Arbor Day twigs. Our son, then 4 or 5 years old named the maple "Little Boy Tree" since it was smaller than he. It was the only one that made it! 
Here's a different looking brace (to me anyway) a Rusby patent brace drill









On eBay (not me). This is getting into "Collector" status. I'm not ready to admit to that, yet.


----------



## OleGrump

While Millers Falls seemed a strong possibility, THIS cropped up in a search of North Brothers hand cranked drill presses:










This advance mechanism is similar enough to make me wonder if mine isn't a North Brothers, left unmarked to be sold under some other name, like Wards, sears or whatever…. There are enough other similarities in this description to prompt this rethinking.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Congrats, Grump! Enjoy the new tool!


----------



## OleGrump

Thank you, Smitty. I feel very blessed to own this nice drill press, having wanted one for several years. (and such a nice size, with a 24" column!) I'm also grateful that it's in pretty good condition overall. the damaged base plate was a bargaining chip when I made my offer on her.
Not making much headway on the manufacturer. If this is a "Franken press" someone did a dammed good job putting it together, as it all "feels right" and there is no slop or shimming at the column end. The head, table and base plate are all held by identical hex head bolts.
Until anything can be proven or disproven, I'm open to any possibility of maker. What's really throwing me is the spring action advance mechanism. Can't find anything to match. Purely conjecture, but it is possible that this is a late model Millers Falls. Being in competition with other companies, MF could have had to develop their own advance mechanism which skirted patents owned by the other companies. But, this is just a theory.


----------



## OleGrump

I got the automatic advance mechanism operating again this afternoon. Where does one get a spring for an antique drill press? From the nearest ball point pen! Had to shorten it a bit to get the proper tension, but she moves the advance wheel with a satisfying "click", ready for the next rotation of the gear wheel. Useful for metal and close grained hardwoods. Otherwise, I'll probably just use the "two crank, quarter turn" rule with the handwheel. Yes, there is a very small lever which allows on to disengage the advancement pin when/if desired.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Great news, love it when old 'arn gets a reprieve / new chance at utility!


----------



## OleGrump

WE HAVE A WINNER !!! The maker is Goodell-Pratt. The Model 10 is identical, except lacking the automatic feed system. Even the tee slot table is indeed original. The gear wheel was originally red and had a decal on it. There were a few other models with the same gear shift mechanism as well. I'm sure y'all are glad I'll shut up about it now…..8>)


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

G-P is an excellent pedigree, Grump. Incredibly well engineered (and built) stuff.


----------



## woodcox

Maybe model no.11 grump. 









1926 catalogue


----------



## OleGrump

Woodcox, you got 'er square on! Found this listing in the 1922 GP catalog (on line) last night:










The No 10 is the same, without the automatic cam feed. Had a hard time tearing myself away from "coveting" items in that catalog!!!


----------



## OleGrump

Here's another question for the Group, while I'm on a roll. I have a Millers Falls 12-A breast drill as in the top illustration:










Bought it and the canvas roll of bits from someone who was cleaning out the house of the original owner. Here's the question. The breast/shoulder pad and gear wheel both have several traces of well worn dark green paint. Has anyone else run across this color on a Millers Falls breast drill, or was this something that might have been done by the original owner to mark it as his?


----------



## OleGrump

The answer is "Yes, this is original paint". After quite a bit of searching, two identical drills, (all bearing "Patented Jan. 21st 1890" inscriptions) have been found for sale on line, both of which have well worn very dark green paint on the gear wheel and pad. Also found at least one more on YouTube with the same dark green paint scheme. At four for four, seems safe to say this is original to this model breast drill.

BTW, Found out that Stanley used a lighter green on the gear wheel and pad of at least one if it's Sweetheart breast drills, just so y'all know this information. No one wants to paint over it thinking it's a wrong color repaint……..8^)


----------



## OleGrump

FINALLY got the chuck for the drill press rebuilt and working. Took a lot of sweat, tears, trial, error, disappointments, a LOT of profanity and a bit of luck. This might help someone else.
As received, the chuck had no jaws. (First round of cussing) But, I have a Fulton two speed breast drill with a non working chuck of the same type. Everything had to be soaked with WD-40 to disassemble it. The Fulton had the three jaws, but only two springs, one of which was horribly distorted. *********************************** engineering time again. I bought a pack of 8 ball point pens from the Dollar Tree not long ago, specifically for the springs. (I've found lots of uses for them) Fortunately, they were the same diameter of the originals. Trial and error, cutting off two coils at a time, eventually got them to the correct length to fit into the chuck shell correctly.
Next problem, the top of the chuck, which screws onto the drill press spindle, would not screw up far enough to make the jaws close on smaller diameter drill bits. (more cussing) I think the threads on the spindle may be messed up at a certain point here. *********************************** Engineering to the rescue again, as a few washers were installed between the jaws and the metal cup which sits at the top of the chuck and presses down on the jaws. (These parts have names, but I don't know them) The washers did the trick! The jaws now operate beautifully. I have already drilled a few inaugural holes with the rebuilt chuck in the drill press. Works great! Love it!
May not be "American Restoration" standards, but I'm happy as a hog in a waller that with some "jerry riggin" and parts "borrowin", the drill press works like it was intended. I've got another chuck around here somewhere that will most likely fit the Fulton.
A great big 'Thank You" goes out to 'Old Sneelock" for his YouTube video on rebuilding a Millers Falls chuck. The video gave me enough information to get this project done satisfactorily. Thought this information might be helpful to someone here in the Group


----------



## bandit571

Just a tease.
.








or two..









I just walked on by….


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, do you know what they were asking for the post drills?


----------



## bandit571

Anvils were starting at 475…...will check again, when I go back down there…


----------



## bandit571

Why spend $10 on a North Bros. YANKEE #41?









Because..









All 8 bits are in the handle. One patent date. Works for me…


----------



## bandit571

> Just a tease.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or two..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just walked on by….
> 
> Prices on the 2 drill presses…$120 and $130…..didn't price the 2 pole vises…small anvil was $425….up to $700..
> 
> - bandit571


----------



## OleGrump

In the immortal words of the great actor, Daffy Duck: "Da-roo-ell, Da-roo-ell" (drawn out pronunciation of "drool", when viewing highly desirable and/or valuable items…… 8^)


----------



## theoldfart

A reasonable price on the post drills if they are complete.


----------



## bandit571

The one in the second photo has a v groove pulley attached to the large flywheel. Note the big gray vise….$100, with hardy hole…I don't even think I could lift it…

Little anvil in the cardboard box? $125,,,I think…

And..most of the hammers were over on another table…


----------



## OleGrump

I've been naughty again, but with goodies like this, I don't mind getting coal from Santa. Here's what's coming to me within the week. Also having a 1/2 inch capacity chuck:













































True, it is missing the vise/table. While unfortunate, this also kept the price within my (stretched) reach. A complete Millers Falls No 21 sells for about 3 1/2 times the cost of this one. (For that matter, MOST of the little 1/4 inch chuck drill presses cost as least twice as much) I've gotten REALLY lucky with these last two finds, Not gonna push my luck or bank account any further for awhile. I content myself by playing with these two wonderful pieces, at least until Santa makes his executive decision in December……


----------



## theoldfart

Grump, I have the same drill. I found the vise on EBay pretty cheaply.


----------



## OleGrump

TOF,
Thank you for confirming my hope that one CAN indeed find these at reasonable cost on EBay. 
I must confess about the last post. Not really a "lie", just perhaps a "sin of omission". While I AM gonna refrain from buying any more large drills, or the like, I have already begun lurking in the vise section. While I have seen a few tempting items, I'm making myself concentrate on the specific vise for the MF # 21.
Thought I was gonna be "good" for awhile after buying the Goodell Pratt No 11, BUT, then I found this MF No 21 at a really good price…….. Guess I'll start looking for a 12 step program as well. (I guess that would be Tim Allen's "Henry Ford Clinic"..... For those with tool addictions)
"Lead me not into temptation, I find it quite easily on my own……"


----------



## theoldfart

Grump, I no longer fight the addiction, in fact I wear it well!


----------



## OleGrump

I'm only "resisting" any further acquisitions until the budget returns from the "critical" list and edges back to the "stable" condition. LOL…… 8^) The only known cure for the addiction is getting more tools…..

BTW, Over the last few days, I read through this thread again, (in increments, not all at one go), in case I've missed something. LOTS of good information to had here. ( and some stuff to add to one's WANT list!) Highly recommend perusing this information to those who have joined us fairly recently. Excellent source of pooled information from our members to be had right here.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Picked up a Stanley Yankee 2101A brace yesterday. I figured it was just a parts drill but after opening up the ratcheting part and fixing the brass spring, I think I might buy some 3/32 balls for the chuck and get it working again. This is the first 2101A that I have seen that doesn't have the Bell Systems marking. If I can make a good drill out of it I might have to do another family photo of my yankee drills showing the 8", 10" and 12". I have a lot of drills, but I'm not a collector, right "tof"?


----------



## theoldfart

Right! But you " need " a 14" to complete the series.


----------



## BlasterStumps

> Right! But you " need " a 14" to complete the series.
> 
> - theoldfart


Oh man! It took me two years to scrounge up a 12". The work of a non-collector is never done. : )


----------



## OleGrump

TOF, The MF No 21 arrived yesterday, and I got to spend a little time tinkering with it, and lubricating the stuffing outta it. The drilling mechanism is still rather stiff. Did you encounter this problem? Will spend some more time working with it this morning, to see if I can get it turning more freely. Otherwise, she's a fun contraption to have in the shop.


----------



## theoldfart

Grump, the grease on mine had solidified so it was stiff.


----------



## OleGrump

Smack me, TOF, I DESERVE it !!! Am I stupid! I disassembled and wiped off the drilling/lowering mechanism this morning. Once the 20th Century grease had been wiped/scraped off, I saw the tiny set screw in the outer shaft. I discovered that this set screw was too tight. Removed the inner, rotating shaft (mindful of the eeny-weenie ball bearings) cleaned it off, and sprayed some white grease in the outer shaft. Reassembled and once the set screw was home tight, slowly backed it off until the inner spindle turned freely. She's spinnin' real nice now. Done drilled me coupla holes to try 'er out.
DUH, I felt like such a dunce. I will console myself with the feeble excuse that there was so much antique "bear grease" on her, that I didn't even SEE the set screw yesterday. Back to "sand blocks" for me for this boo-boo….


----------



## HokieKen

Anybody familiar with this Stanley? Looks late model to me but listed as "vintage".


----------



## theoldfart

Good news Grump, now go find that vise!


----------



## bandit571

Have a few parts that need a new home….


















From a Millers Falls No. 120….









needs 2 more of these springs….( I have the Goodell-Pratt version, anyway..) just parting out the "extra" drills..


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, pm sent.


----------



## OleGrump

Anyone here win the primitive wimble with the thumbscrew chuck that sold For $7.99 Sunday on Ebay? I got tied up and couldn't bid on it….


----------



## bandit571

Both are by Goodell Pratt Co…...Breast Drill, and Chain Drill…..can't seem to get the chain drill to fit into the breast drills chuck…..square shank will not go in far enough….

Inventory Day….found a few other drills, too









and









Handle has Pewter rings. Wood T handled Gimlet. Large brace is a #8012, PS&W









Fly cutter? and push drills…


----------



## bandit571

Kevin: You have mail….


----------



## theoldfart

Yes I do and THANKS.

A bonus is on its way to you tomorrow am.


----------



## OleGrump

I've run into the problem where certain drill chucks which look like they SHOULD accept a shank just won't take larger ones. Never understood it. And your breast drill certainly should accept the shank on the chain drill. HMMMM….


----------



## bandit571

Package has arrived safely, THANKS!

That "extra" chuck is from France….


----------



## Andybb

I always see this thread so i figured you guys are the ones to ask. Not sure if this qualifies as "Vintage" but I got this for free from someone cleaning out her fathers shop. Just wondering if it's worth restoring (cleaning). Everything seems to work smoothly. My first thought would be to dismantle and soak overnight in Evaporust but I see people using wire wheels on them unless that's a no no. Maybe someone here could link me to how to properly restore this.

Came across this video. Good advice??


----------



## DLK

Well I never have gone so far to do all that. Could be fun. I'm just amazed he didn't loose any part or damage a pin.


----------



## bandit571

I just use a wire wheel on my 6" grinder….wood handles and evaporust don't play well together…


----------



## Andybb

> Well I never have gone so far to do all that. Could be fun. I m just amazed he didn t loose any part or damage a pin.
> 
> - Combo Prof





> I just use a wire wheel on my 6" grinder….wood handles and evaporust don t play well together…
> 
> - bandit571


Thanks. That makes it easier. Everything turns smoothly with no noise so I'm thinking the wire wheel is the way to pretty it up. Is that wood under that black finish, or should I just clean it and spray it??

Now to find some estate sale bits.


----------



## DLK

I too have just used a wire wheel. They may be hard rubber and not wood, which was preferred by telephone pole workers. I think the 923 was manufactured from 1905 to 1984 with either coco bolo, aluminum or hard rubber handles, depending on the year (maybe ?). I'm no expert. It is probably a good brace,

Wire wheel only the metal.

I would just clean the head and sweep handle. If they are wood I would then wax them with Alfie shine hard wax polish, but if they are not wood I would leave them alone after cleaning.

And oil it.

Also see Andy's blog.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Patrick Leach's September Tool List has one of these listed (Item ST17). I was pleased to see him say this about the 923 brace: "Stanley's best selling premium quality brace".

I just treated this one to a partial disassembly and a wire wheel brushing. Here's the before:









And the after:


















I didn't do a full dismantling like in the video, but the small loose parts were treated to some oxalic acid solution instead of evaporust. It cleaned up the rust nicely. Everything else was just wire brushed. The downside is that the pitting shows very clearly now.


----------



## Andybb

Hmmm… I think this is a good time to employ the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" doctrine. Since it's running smoothly I'm thinking a little wire wheeling and some 3 in 1 oil and call it good. The handles did seem to be rubber and not wood so I'll clean those up too. Taking it apart exponentially increases the odds of breaking or loosing something. I think we've all been there at some point?


----------



## OleGrump

I agree with Andy here. This brace is in working condition, so there's NO need to "fix" it, beyond a little wire wheel clean up and maybe some 3-in-1. 
Just so you know, the brace you have has an enclosed ratchet mechanism and ball bearings under the pad (top knob) These are the features you want to see in a good quality brace. You done GOOD, especially for a freebie. I hope you plan on using this brace once you get it cleaned up. I'm sure you will enjoy it.


----------



## Tim457

You found a good one to start. Your plan of just cleaning up the metal and using it is a good one. Dumping it in evaporust would damage wood and could damage the rubber, I'm not sure. But evaporust also has some degreaser in it, and that would strip the lubricant from the bearings and mean you would have to re-lubricate. Honestly, now that I think of it, I don't know off the top of my head if oil is the best lube for a brace or if you want a grease of some kind.,


----------



## theoldfart

A very light coat of white lithium has worked well for me. For a "stiff" brace I'll start with WD40 and see if I get better movement, then on to light machine oil. My goal is to avoid disassembly, if possible. If I still need to break it down, then I use the white lithium on the bearings. As for the chuck, i try to buff the the interior and get everything moving smoothly. I don't like lubricants in the chuck, they just attract and hold crud. The same with elevator posts on mitre boxes.


----------



## MoosegooserDogwood

Miller Falls. #1322 10 inch.. and Fulton #10 brace. Hy Low eggbeater drill, Old Lathe calipers 1 is 12" 1 is marked Edward Hines Norwich Inside /outside measure. ,Yankee screw drivers, #41 and 2 #31A. 2 Hockley Abbey wood Levels . 2 old wood braces. 1 is Sheffield,,and the other is Pilkington. Pilkington missing engagement button on nose. I have tried to find parts for years,, gave up.. Very pretty Brace.. Bailey marking gauge.. Old unmarked brass oiler/ grease gun.


----------



## MoosegooserDogwood

I would really like to find parts for the Pilkington. I also would enjoy it if someone who knows how drills are held in the Pilkington and Sheffeild wood braces. Will common brace bits like other have shown fit theses old wood braces? some of these tools were my Dads. I am 65.. Some were given to me by a dear friend when her grandfather died.. Wood braces and wood levels, Lathe calipers..


----------



## BlasterStumps

I was able to fix the North Bros 1555 crank handle so that it would turn freely. I had to remove the pin. I cut an approx 1-1/2" circle from a pop can, punched some holes in it and then placed it over the peened portion of the pin to protect the finish on the handle. I used my auger bit file with the safe edge towards the handle and filed away for a while to reduce the peened over portion. I also drilled the end of the pin. Once it looked like it would move with just a little coaxing, I use a pin punch and hammer to drive it out. Once out, I was able to run a 5/16" bit thru the hole in the wood 'til the handle spun freely. To get just enough pin to stick out for peening it back on once the handle was reinstalled I sanded a smidgen off the end of the wood handle. Now that the wood handle is spinning freely, it is a pleasure to use the drill. I'm happy, happy.


----------



## Andybb

Now that I have a drill (or should I say brace?) I need some bits. My local outlet has these. They are always willing to negotiate. What would be a fair price for these? I'm thinking of offering $20. Is this a decent set, especially since they will rarely get used.


----------



## DLK

I would say $45 is a fair price.


----------



## Andybb

> I would say $45 is a fair price.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Then I have noting to lose by offering $20.  Is Greenlee considered a decent set of drills?


----------



## theoldfart

Greenlee is decent. Look at the snails (the lead screw). Make sure they are good. Also look at the spurs, be sure that they are not ground down.










Edit: I just noticed the set has 12 bits, usually there are 13. Older sets had 14.


----------



## Tim457

Blaster, that's a pretty good trick with the pop can to shield the finish. I'm going to have to try to remember that.

Definitely what TOF said, and if the spurs have been ground much at all on the outside of the circle that they are supposed to cut, the bit can bind. You can actually fix that, but it reduces the radius of the bit and is a serious undertaking.


----------



## bandit571

Kind of hard to see the squares….









For all the drills in the til…


----------



## OleGrump

Of everything that tends to go forth and multiply in the woodshop, in my own case at least, squares are the most guilty. They have become legion. Honestly and truly, I have at least five which I have no idea whence they came. At least I can say there is always one handy when I need one….


----------



## theoldfart

Grump, only five? Slacker!


----------



## BlasterStumps

the pop can worked but I did change the piece out a couple times because the file made the hole in them bigger as I filed. 


> Blaster, that s a pretty good trick with the pop can to shield the finish. I m going to have to try to remember that.
> 
> Definitely what TOF said, and if the spurs have been ground much at all on the outside of the circle that they are supposed to cut, the bit can bind. You can actually fix that, but it reduces the radius of the bit and is a serious undertaking.
> 
> - Tim


----------



## OleGrump

TOF, the five or so mentioned are only the ones that I don't even remember where they came from or when. The total number of squares in the shop is significantly higher….. 8^)

Oh yeah, right behind squares for propagating is hammers…..


----------



## DLK

.... and then wooden handled screw drivers, chisels without handles, etc.

For some reason I have a collection of plumb bobs that magically appeared in my shop. Never once did I intently by one.


----------



## bandit571

The main group…









Little one is 3"...long one is a Stanley No. 20, 12"


----------



## theoldfart

My next restore project


----------



## CFrye

Beam drill, Kevin?


----------



## donwilwol

Gonna need a slick now


----------



## bandit571

Went to an Auction a few years back…didn't have the $35 a piece…









Was too interested in planes, at the time….


----------



## theoldfart

Candy, yes. It belongs to the railroad museum where I do restoration work. I'll be needing it to do some frame rebuilding on a vintage narrow gauge passenger car.

Don, we have a few!

Bandit, those things are around $500 now. Unless your Jim Bode, the it's more like $800.


----------



## OleGrump

SON UV A…..... I've always wanted one of these, and to think I PASSED on a few of them about 20-25 years ago, (and a couple of them could be set at angles…..) thinking they were "too expensive" at $100 ……. How long do I get to keep kicking myself over THAT "EF" up….. ???


----------



## theoldfart

" How long do I get to keep kicking myself over THAT "EF" up….. ???"

Probably as long as I do!


----------



## DLK

I hope you both long enough to each be able to buy one for the other.


----------



## Tim457

Mine needs some serious work. The wood frame is twisted enough that the part that slides up and down doesn't ride on its tracks properly. The linear gear is broken too, but it's repaired enough to be functional. The handles are a mess too, with a chunk out of one of them. Definitely something I'd like to get in working order. I have a good 1-3/4" bit for it and the 2" bit it came with that has the snail broken off.

Oh, also the catch mechanism that holds it at the top is missing. Bandit do you have a closeup of the catch on those two on the right in that picture? I need to figure out how to replicate that if I can't replace it.


----------



## bandit571

Sorry..only photos I was able to get….had a LOT of others to get a picture of…









Estate/Barn/Workshop Auction….









Along with a bunch of box lots….









And saws 









First HALF of this auction was a tent sale of Household items.


----------



## woodcox

Drawer pull day.


----------



## bandit571

Ordered a key for a small chuck…









Found a tool stashed away, while cleaning things up..









Stamped USAAF on the brass section..









Geo. Worthington…...No. 2









from sometime before 1949….when USAAF changed over to USAF….

Key size? 0…..Jacobs #K 0…..









Order came from McMaster-Carr….sent as a "Sample" (no charge) because I could not get the order to "ring up" on the computer….called Customer Service….and they sent the key out…









Intend to keep that bag, to store both items in, in the drawer…


----------



## OleGrump

WAY COOL! There's something very few of us have ever seen.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice Bandit. A small chuck and right angle adapter are both handy to have.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Stanley 923 braces: 2 - 10", 1 - 12" and 1 - 14". 3 made in the USA and 1 made in CAN.

I'm not a collector, but if you know of an 8" at a reasonable price…


----------



## KentInOttawa

Can you folks post some pics of your brace storage and a bit (sorry!) about the pros and cons it?


----------



## BlasterStumps

I like the open storage for the ease of selecting and getting a tool down to use. Howsomeever they get covered in dust. I used to have doors on my previous tool cabinet but found I never closed them so on this one I just have wing cabinets and the right side is where I keep a few of my drills. I keep the all the rest in drawers of a couple cabinets in my shop. If there is a con to this storage area, it is that it is not big enough. : ) . One suggestion for you if you are still in the planning and design stage for a storage area for your drills is to make it big enough so you can keep bits in at least some of the drills you hang.


----------



## KentInOttawa

*Blaster*, that's exactly the sort of info that I was looking for. Thanks.

Next?


----------



## HokieKen

I have no pics and I probably wouldn't show 'em if I did Ken ;-) My 2 braces and most of my eggbeaters live on pegboard in a corner. My auger bits lie dull and neglected in a shoebox awaiting an affordable auger file to come along. One eggbeater (MF #5) lives in the tool well on my bench.

Typing that reminded me… Anybody know of a source for an affordable auger file?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Mine is from Lee Valley. About $19 or so. I have used the auger file quite a bit and it seems good quality. You can get a file from Amazon also. Might be cheaper on shipping.


----------



## DLK

Yes. Lee valley, for $19.90 but this week its free shipping for spend $40, so buy two auger files,. Cuurently out of stock LOL

Highlland woodworking. also has them for $17.99.

And I see that Grobet makes one sold here for $14.95. Grobet files are reported to be very good. See also this link.

Note the Lee-valley file says made in Italy on it.


----------



## DLK

*kent*:


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks guys. I guess my thinking isn't in line for those files… $15 sounds like a stretch to me for one. I'm cheap though ;-)


----------



## DLK

You can take an ordinary file and grind an edge or face smooth.


----------



## KentInOttawa

*Don K*. - Thanks. Clever use of the space left by the handles of the top row for the second row.

*Kenny* - you'll probably only ever need one. Go for it and splurge!


----------



## HokieKen

I was wondering if I could use a tapered file (saw file) to sharpen them. I have a ton of those. I might see how that works out…


----------



## OleGrump

Kent, None of us would ADMIT to being "Collectors", yet braces and hand drills have a way of accumulating in the shop. For eaxample, I have braces from both of my grandfathers, plus a couple that belonged to good friends while they were still living, so it kinda snowballs.
Anyway, I'm a BIG "Plus One" on making the storage area for your most used braces and hand drills large enough to store some with bits left in the chuck. For example, many of us here on this thread leave a counter sink bit in one of our "at-the-ready" braces. Saves a lot of time and effort, being able to grab this brace for countersinking screw heads. Allow a little extra space in your storage for such things.


----------



## DLK

Ha. For example second row second from from the left.










You just need one brace per bit and you'll save all kinds of time. 

Incidentally one summer, everywhere I went I could garage sale pick up a decent brace for $2.00 and could not resist. I think 6 of the braces shown were $2.00 and one was free. The corner brace was $5, The two that have a 6" sweep (Stanley 2100 and MF . 30) were around $25, I think Glen sold me the MF. 30. And I think I paid $5 or $10 for the 14" sweep MF 730 Lion chuck. The buck rogers with a barber chuck was a cool $2 find.

If you are patient and hunt a bit you can find good braces very cheap.

The hand drills all ran about $25-$30 each except I was give one and traded for 3 of them. (There are more in a box.)

By the way I showed my wife the display and she said, "So I guess you don't have room for any more". Indicating I don't need to buy more. I don't think she knows a have a box of yet to be restored braces.


----------



## KentInOttawa

*Don K* - I have 7 but have only ever bought 2, and I paid eBay prices for those, so…

Here's one of the one's that I don't use:


----------



## BlasterStumps

This past weekend, I picked up another North Bros 1545 drill. It looked pretty clean as it was but I decided to remove the chuck so that I could clean the threads there. As I turned the chuck out to the end of the threads, it fell off and hit a plastic jug sitting down at the base of the bench. I was rather shocked to see one of the jaws drop out on the floor as a result of the impact with the plastic jug. I picked the chuck and the jaw piece up and took a look inside the chuck. Yep, the spring was still there. I spent the better part of the next hour attempting to take the chuck apart without leaving vise marks on the chuck. If you have never done such, it's a real thrill. Thanks to an old pair of heavy leather gloves, a big adjustable wrench, a 3# hammer and my Starrett bench vise, along with a few choice words here and there, I was finally successful in getting the back loose so that I could put the jaw back in. When they put them together at the factory, they must have used some kind of machine. I don't think they intended for the chuck to be taken apart. : (


----------



## Brit

Been there, done that Mike. Pain in the butt.


----------



## BlasterStumps

When I was at an antique shop this weekend, I picked this circle (gasket) cutter. I have another one from the UK but it is a wedge style with twin cutter arms and about a third the size.

This chrome one has a 12" beam. I haven't bothered to sharpen the cutter and most likely wont unless I want to use it. I can just see me cutting myself with it. Cool wall hanger possibly. Check out the patent date.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Over the last few years, I have come across some push drill bits. I save stuff like that when I find them, don't really know why. It's a good thing though in some cases. I just found a North Bros No 30 push drill/screwdriver and was able to match up some of the bits I had to that tool. With the 1/4" socket driver bit, I will be able to use a 1/4" socket with all types of driver bits in it.


----------



## Andybb

> I always see this thread so i figured you guys are the ones to ask. Not sure if this qualifies as "Vintage" but I got this for free from someone cleaning out her fathers shop. Just wondering if it s worth restoring (cleaning). Everything seems to work smoothly. My first thought would be to dismantle and soak overnight in Evaporust but I see people using wire wheels on them unless that s a no no. Maybe someone here could link me to how to properly restore this.
> 
> Came across this video. Good advice??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Andybb


Finally got around to cleaning this up. Not sure how it's supposed to operate. Whatever this part is called is spring loaded and stays retracted on one side and not on the other. Don't want to take it apart and clean it if it'll only do damage. Twisting the flange below it works the ratchet but it seems to have multiple positions affecting the action of he drill that will let it spin left, right, locked and free spin. Is that normal? If not what's wrong with it? Thanks in advance.


----------



## DLK

I've never seen a brace with a free spin position. Most are three position left, locked, and right.


----------



## Andybb

> I ve never seen a brace with a free spin position. Most are three position left, locked, and right.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Thanks. Good to know. Seems to be related to the broken part.

Found the problem! Are these parts available? If not it will still work fine. Seems too small to weld or braze or JB weld.


----------



## DLK

Probably easier and cheaper to find a brace where this part is not broken.


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah Andy, I imagine Don's right. Maybe you can find an old brace on Ebay as a donor.


----------



## RWE

Was our rust hunting today and ran across this. I have always liked post drills when i have seen them on Roy Underhill's show and YouTube. I knew I could never get one for lack of space in my small shop. This seems to be a bench top version of the post drill. It was made by Keen in England. I Googled and inspected Ebay and could not find another image like this one. Seems Keen made a lot of hand drills. Does anyone have experience with Keen products and/or something like this drill. Any info would be appreciated. it was reasonably priced at $45 but I passed on it. I do believe it will be there for a few days if I should go back and get it. Seemed to operate smoothly. I checked the chuck. From what I could gather, this is not a real old tool. Maybe 30's or 40's??


----------



## DLK

For $45 I would risk buying it. It appears in the 1949 catalog on page 14.









Apparently according to  vintage machinery not much is known, they write:

M. C. Gooding & Co., Ltd. of Keen Works, made hand, breast, and bench drills, tool grinders, electric bench grinders, grinding heads, and a 6 inch table saw. The firm exhibited in the 1937 British Industries Fair and exhibited elsewhere in 1955, but no other information is available on dates of operation.

Could be a fun cheap investment.


----------



## RWE

Thanks for the information Don. I may ask Santa Claus to get it for me. One thing that concerned me was the rate of plunge by the mechanism. It seemed too aggressive and I could not figure out if it had one setting only or was adjustable. I may get it and see if I can use it for drilling pen blanks or something like that. It is a cool little apparatus.


----------



## RWE

Ok. I bit and went by and picked it up. 10 percent discount got it down to $40.50. Will clean it a bit and give it a try. Seems fully functional. Will report back after I have fiddled with it a bit.


----------



## theoldfart

I'd be curious how the feed speed is adjusted.

Nice tool, have fun.


----------



## DonBroussard

I've never seen one with a flywheel - that is pretty cool and practical. Good pickup, RWE. You must be on Santa's Nice List!


----------



## RWE

Santa led me to it I believe. I had often wished for a post drill. Something about the mechanism that feed the advance always appealed to me. Now I have a mini-post drill. I believe I can rig a fence and make it a good pen blank drill. Also, I figure being able to get the drill bit right above the mark before commencing to cut will be a practical advantage to this hand cranked drill, for ad hoc drilling. Should be fun.

Only problem is that Santa told me not to let my wife catch sight of it. I will have to leave it in my daughter's attic until I am back at her house without the boss being around. LOL. So it will be a few days or weeks before I can report on it.

Keen is not a brand I had ever seen. This does seem to be a solid and nice piece of machinery.


----------



## DLK

Do you have any pets? My Dog always gets me a Christmas present.


----------



## Brit

RWE - I also found what Don found and also the following:

KEEN " BENCH DRILL

No. 57

Chuck of Cap: 3-jaw 
self centring, with self 
acting feed to Spindle 
(adjustable).

Heavy flywheel pro¬ 
vides ample power.

Ball Bearing Thrust. 
Head is adjustable.

Drill table is slotted for 
holding down work.

Finish. Red and Black 
stove enamel and Gold 
transfer.

Packed. One in carton.

Price 57/6 
Height 20"

Weight 15 lb. 
Drills to centre 9£ 
Chuck to table 7"

I also found this in the London Gazette, dated 5th January 1960:

KEEN TOOLS LTD.
At an Extraordinary General Meeting of the abovenamed Company, duly convened and held at Winchester House, Old Broad Street, "London E.C.2, on
the 21st day of December 1959, the following Extraordinary Resolutions were duly passed:
1. -"That it has been proved to the satisfaction of
the Company that this Company cannot by reason of
its liabilities continue its business, and that it is advisable that the same should be wound up: and that
the Company be wound up accordingly." 
2. "That-H. C. Hedges, Esq., of 4 Charterhouse
Square, London E.C.1, 'be and he is hereby appointed
the (Liquidator of the Company for the purposes of
such winding-up." 
C. E. Pryke, Chairman .(being Creditors Nominee
(317) on Board of Directors).


----------



## RWE

Don K.: Clint Eastwood said "A man has to know his limitations". In the middle of the Christmas shopping frenzy even my dog cannot get by with "yet another tool" as a present. The wise man waits.

Brit: I get the sense that Keen had a solid line of products but got hamstrung on production during WWII because of metal shortage. Then when they came back post-war, the power tool phenomenon killed the demand for their line of hand cranked drills, grinders and bench drills. I was just wondering if the brand was familiar to you or were they an obscure company in England compared to companies like Record and Stanley etc. Also, I guess I can look it up, but what would 57/6 (57 pounds/ 6 shillings??) translate into dollars at that time. I am guessing depending on the exchange rate at the time to around $35 to $80 which would be somewhat expensive for that period.

In general, I am now wondering if the hand cranked Bench Drill was a widespread tool type. Did Millers Falls or other noted hand drill companies make a similar tool. Until I ran into it at the antique store, I had never seen one nor had I ever heard of one. Maybe post drills were the American equivalent and the bench drill was born too late to survive the birth of the electric power tool. Looking forward to testing it and I will report back then.


----------



## Brit

No the brand isn't that familiar to me. I've seen there hand drills and hand cranked grinders on ebay and they appear to be good quality, but I've never used any of their tools. They were nowhere near as big as Stanley, Record or Marples.


----------



## DLK

Yes. Many company's made them. I think OldFart owns one made by Miller Falls. I have seen them occasionally. Anyway google "hand cranked pillar drill" and look at the images.


----------



## theoldfart

My two big drills are a Canedy Otto No.00 post drill and a Millers Falls No.21 bench drill.










I'll put up better pics shortly, my grandson is in the shop now. Shavings every where, he like the chute plane!


----------



## ac0rn

Well I made the list of planes, now onto the braces. Inheritance! As with some of the other items, some i will keep, but quite a bit will have to move onward.
















































































This set is also in the original cardboard package too.










I already have a good working set of Bell System bits, so I will not keep these two sets.

Shown are:
Yankee #2101A 10" 
Stanley #965N 10" 
Millers Falls #731 12" 
Stanley #2101A 8" Bell System
Stanley Handyman #H1250
Yankee #30A North Bros Mfg, Phila
Stanley #993
Stanley #982
Stanley #02-716

So when I figure when to thin all this out, ebay or lumberjocks?


----------



## theoldfart

Jeff, those two bit sets will bring a good price. You also have two Yankee braces in excellent condition, the 8" is the more valuable of the two. Some really nice eggbeaters and breast drills there.


----------



## bandit571

Hmm..this is about half of my stash…









And..most of the eggbeaters…









I don't think I need any more….


----------



## bandit571

Drills in the til…









Tain't all of them…either…


----------



## HokieKen

I'd have been interested in that set of Irwin bits Jeff. But then Kev jumped in and drove the price up. Thanks ya old fart ;-)

I seriously may be interested in that set Jeff so feel free to PM me if you want to circumvent Ebay


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Good stuff, Jeff. Love those Jennings bits (and boxes!).


----------



## theoldfart

No problem Kenny.  Always glad to help.

I am a Jennings snob, three sets 2 100's and 1 set of 101's. A set of 1/2" shank machine bits and working on a set of dowel bits.


----------



## UpstateNYdude

I'd be interested in the 8" Yankee brace and possibly the Jennings bits if you're looking to circumvent eBay, also I agree with Ken thanks Kev for driving the prices up : -)


----------



## bandit571

A special little Egg Beater drill…needs id for it..


















Single pinion drive…3 jaw chuck..









Without any markings…









Crank only says "Made in USA"...so, what is so special about this drill? What LOOKS like a solid wood handle on top….









Isn't. it is hollow, you move that tab around, and a hole appears, and any drills bit stowed inside will come out. 
Anyone see any handle option like this. Certainly better that the wooden screw-on caps….


----------



## CFrye

Unique, Bandit! How big is it over all?


----------



## bandit571

Just over 11" long.


----------



## bandit571

Soooo, question for the gurus…who made this drill.


----------



## bigblockyeti

Paint looks like Millers Falls or Stanley.


----------



## DLK

I think it is a Miller falls No. 107 or 307. See this.


----------



## HokieKen

> I think it is a Miller falls No. 107 or 307. See this.
> 
> - Combo Prof


I thought that at first too but, those MF drills had open frame drive gears. Also, those indexed to 8 holes each of which had one bit. I believe Bandit's only has one hole If I'm understanding properly? Certainly has the look of Millers Falls though. Maybe something they made for a hardware store or other?


----------



## DLK

Yes… I forgot about the open frame on the 307, and 107.


----------



## bandit571

Ok..happen to have a Stanley handyman drill…and..a Stanley Defiance drill….


















While some things match…









Other things do not…









While the cranks are made the same, the wooden knobs are not, Chucksare the same…drive gear is not…









Handyman's crank handle is cast into the gear. Top handles are almost the same SHAPE…just the Mystery drill's is longer. Defiance gear is almost like a M-F #5, except for the 3 rings around the edge. Close, but….


----------



## bandit571

Well, the Defiance seems to be a #1221 model….


----------



## bandit571

Didn't Millers Falls also make a line of drills over in Germany?


----------



## HokieKen

Would be news to me Bandit. They did acquire a lot of other companies during and after the war though. As far as I know, they were all US based but that doesn't mean there wasn't something overseas.


----------



## bandit571

Well…Have another 2 eggbeaters to get cleaned up….they get a bit dusty..









First off the til…









Millers Falls No. 2-01…then..









This slightly smaller version….









Inside that round cap….









Were 2 small drill bits..like that Craftsman label? the bit that was in the chuck?


----------



## bandit571

Ok…BIG egg beater time…got one of the 2 biggems cleaned up..









Even the logo..









Everything cleaned up,oiled…and ready to go..









This ain't no dainty little egg beater…..may work on the Craftsman, tomorrow..


----------



## bandit571

Enough about egg beaters,,,,have a few other things needed cleaned up..









Such as these push drills…..That one Yankee without a tip in it?









One nice use for a benchdog hole….but, there were 8 tips inside this handle, with 2 extra slots left over…Yankee is from before Stanley bought out North Brothers….and has a few patent dates on it..The tips?









Had to clean up a couple of them….been in there, a while?
May need to build a til just for these…?


----------



## bandit571

While sorting through the brace drills, to see which will get stashed away/tossed out….one drill in the stash pile turned out to be a Millers Falls No. 22 …..More info as the day goes on…

What is there to do, when one has TWO Stanley No. 945-8 brace drills?

Be back later with a few photos..of the mess…..keepers vs tossed….


----------



## DLK

> What is there to do, when one has TWO Stanley No. 945-8 brace drills?
> 
> - bandit571


Drill twice as many holes!


----------



## bandit571

Processing the photos now….will be a bit….

There is a 10" brace, with just a 3710 number stamped on it.
One of two from Germany….H.S. 102 10"

will have to look up the G-P 8" number….uses a wire clip to change directions…Pat. date DEC 27 1882….

I did find the GP egg beater…#329…..needs a new bolt to hold the head on with….

BRB..


----------



## bandit571

Ok…these and one more are stashed away…









Two are from Germany, one is from Japan…The other is an un-marked clone of the Stanley 945-8

That G-P Co. egg beater?
















As for another GP drill?









#408…about 1905?

Among the tossed out drills? one has a #3710 stamped on it, another has "VANCO" stamped. 
Now, about those 945-8s









and..









Two…there is also a Stanley No. 730-14..









And I down-sized a bit..









Has SAMSON on one arm, the other is stamped "8012" and is by P.S. & W.
2 Keen Kutter drills..









The N 104 ( M-F 1053?) and..









The KK KB6 ( M_F 1054-6?)
And that Millers Falls No. 22….









Not the best selection…but I think this might do….may try to "pare" this down a bit more?

The GP eggbeater has a logo/patent date on both the crank handle, and the chuck….just no model number.


----------



## HokieKen

I think you need another brace Bandit. Not sure those will do ya ;-)


----------



## bandit571

LOL….

Keeping these cleaned and oiled up will keep me busy for a little bit….maybe?


----------



## bandit571

Goodell Pratt Company No. 329. 









had "issues" that needed fixed ( need to buy some red paint, too)so….









Missing ferrel was replaced. Handle does just screws into place….the bolt was a later "fix" that didn't work too well. Got the old bolt out. and replaced with a pin. Will add some JB Weld to fill out the gaps a bit…









When I cleaned the crank handle, I found a Goodell Pratt Company logo. The bolt needed a countersink to sit down a bit better….









Now….handle at the top is solid as a rock, instead of flopping around. The bolt for the crank sits down to avoid the fingers going by. Need the metal filler, and some red paint for the drive gear…and this will look like it did 100+yrs ago. Might be a "keeper"? Can crank this as fast as I can, and not hear a sound….nice and quiet "cordless" drill


----------



## OleGrump

RWE, Ya done REAL good on that buy. Hell, even at $45, I'da jumped on that like a prom date. Put it this way, if you see what hand cranked drill presses are going for on EBay, you'll KNOW you got a GREAT deal. You don't even WANT to know what my Goodell Pratt #11 set me back….. But I LOVE it, and it'll be in the shop until I die, so that's what's important when it comes to our tools


----------



## tvrgeek

As incredibly easy a brace and bit works, I find it one tool that did not really have an advantage in actual performance to modern high-tech alternatives. Before modern cordless drills, I used mine ( Dunlop, circa late 50's) as much as a screw driver as a drill. I did pass on my set of augers and twist drills to a collector. Now it is Milwaukee. Not romaric, but makes holes. If the M12 does not do it, I still have my 1/2 inch Makita corded that will pick you up and rotate you around the bit is you were not paying attention.


----------



## DLK

Does anyone know how to replace the crank knob of a hand drill?


----------



## DLK

Never mind I managed to clean it up with out removing the knob. But its down to bare wood now. Ho do I restore the Miller Falls reddish lacquer/varnish color? Will many coats of tru oil do it?


----------



## bandit571

Just arrived….









One is a Millers Falls No. 1950, Buck Rogers 10" sweep. The other is a Millers Falls V-Line #170 push drill…with 3 out of the 4 bits it was sold with, when new….in 1954

The brace did clean up nicely..









Have oiled the #170….seems to work well enough.


----------



## bandit571

Anything special about this $4 drill?









Has a "100 Plus" added to the logo on the crank handle, along with No. 610









Even has the "100 Plus" stamped into the handle. Fully enclosed gear box…..3 jaw chuck…


----------



## bandit571

Just picked today…









And cleaned up..









Has a thumbscrew to lock the bit in place


----------



## bandit571

Along with a pair of bits









Russel Jennings #9
James Swan #5-1/2

One that came with the drill seems to be an Irwin #6

Searched through the catalog by James Swan that I have…..no mention of a "5-1/2" sized bit….measures out to be 3/8" diameter.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Had a chance to go in an antiques store today. Couldn't pass on these long bits. The smaller one is a Sargent VBM, then there is an old Irwin. Don't know on the two larger sizes, too much rust to see good. The drill is a J.S. Fray 110. Good shape but missing the handles. It will be a fun one to fix up. I have four more auger bits in the soak along with the ruled blade from an old Starrett No 4 Combination Square. Once I get it cleaned up and reassembled, I think I will finally have a nice Starrett square complete with a good level and the scribe. I just hope it is square : )


----------



## bandit571

About a block west of the other store….in the "Junk Rescue" section…$10 drill…









Chuck was junk….replaced that, cleaned the rust and flaky paint….new chuck, new paint…









Red Head No. 110. New York, USA. Threads under the cap looked good..









Not too bad of a drill…


----------



## HokieKen

> ...in the soak along with the ruled blade from an old Starrett No 4 Combination Square. Once I get it cleaned up and reassembled, I think I will finally have a nice Starrett square complete with a good level and the scribe. I just hope it is square : )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Mike, be careful soaking blades from combination squares (or anything with fine graduations). I made one starrett hook rule pretty much unreadable by doing so. It depends on what your soaking it in but if it's something like phosphoric acid, the conversion of the iron oxide can make the lines and numbers indistinguishable from the rest of the steel. Just a PSA. I think if you are using evaporust it's probably a non-issue.

And if that square ain't square, it can be made square with just a needle file (assuming the blade is straight) and it'll stay that way. Great score on the square and the bits!

Nice eggbeater Bandit. I always think the handle looks like it would snap with just a little pressure on those models but I like the storage in the end. And I'm sure they're plenty strong, the taper just looks a little off compared to MF and Yankee models.


----------



## bigblockyeti

I've got a couple breast drills, one of which is having some chuck or spindle thread issues but I want another and this one popped up on my radar pretty close to me and looks like it's all there and working. What says the collective brain trust about this deal?
https://greenville.craigslist.org/tls/d/chesnee-millers-falls-co-shoulder-drill/7137699680.html


----------



## HokieKen

I like my MF breast drill but have to admit, I don't think I've ever used it other than when I first got it. If you know you like breast drills and that one's nearby, I think $25 is a fair price for it.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Kenny, Your are spot on about the metal. I should have taken it out of the soak after about and hour. As I left it in overnight, the evaporust slightly darkened the blade but it is better than it was before the soak.

I checked it against my big machinist square and it appears to be pretty good on being square It may not be new looking but it will be okay. I'm glad to have a complete vintage No 4. I might find a place for it on my new tool board.


----------



## HokieKen

Looks really nice from here Mike!


----------



## BlasterStumps

My herd keeps growing. Went out to a local antiques store, picked out 5 things and went in to the counter and made an offer that I think was way more than generous. Nope, 15% off tag price was best he could do. I put all but this drill (110 on the right front of pic) back. Had to give $22.50 for it but didn't want to leave it behind. The knob did not want to turn but I have since remedied that. Put a bit in it and tried it out. I think I finally have a really nice 110. The one I found the other day for $2.00 that is missing the handle is nice too but won't be able to give it a real test out until I make a handle. One 7", two 8", and two 10".









I think this is one of those "when it rains, it pours" things. For a long time, I looked but couldn't seem to scare up a Fray spofford brace, at least not without paying a very bloated price for one. Then all of a sudden, I have five. Go figure. The most expensive one is this last 110 I just bought. Note to self: must stop buying Fray braces.


----------



## sansoo22

I get to play on this thread finally! Minty looking Miller Falls V-Line.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Looks like it is in great condition sansoo.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here's my first attempt at making handle for a Fray brace drill. I put some stain on the cherry wood but need to give it a spray of clear maybe when I clean up the button so I can do them together. I fought the spiders to get to my ShopSmith so I could use the lathe. I might have to try another handle using a little different method though. I'll have to see what wood scraps I have that would work.


----------



## DLK

It looks good to me I wouldn't make another handle.


----------



## theoldfart

Mike, what's wrong with it? My eyes are too far gone to see any flaws!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Sorry, been away from computer. Nothing is wrong with the new handle, it fits rather nice. Now that I have the drill together, I really like it. My favourite of all of the Spofford braces is the little 7". Just so nice to use. This one I just fitted a handle to it nearly as nice. I think the other 110 I have with the pewter bands on the handle needs to have the frame opened up just a tad. There is a bit of wobble to it when drilling. I can fix.

The reason I said I might make another handle is to work on my method. If I do it again, I will temporary a piece of dowel inside the 5/8 hole. I can push it out later and that should make it simpler to get the hole. I'll let you know how it goes if I give it a try.


----------



## DonBroussard

I picked up a brace this weekend, and I am seeking information on what I have. Although I can't say that I've read every post on this thread, I have been subscribed to it for a couple of years. I have not seen a tool like the one pictured below either on this thread or in real life.










I am speculating that it is a corner brace of some sort. I have not found any manufacturer's marks on the tool but I have not done any disassembly or cleaning on it yet. The chuck is a two-jaw chuck, if that helps.

Thanks in advance for any ideas or information.


----------



## DLK

That's a Millers Falls 182, but an earlier model than the one depicted in 
old tool heaven









I don't think its a corner brace. I think it can be used as a breast drill or as an ordinary brace.

google "Millers Falls 182" and looks at the images.


----------



## DonBroussard

Thanks, Don. That information is very helpful. I'll see if I can find any markings on it this week.


----------



## CFrye

Cool find Don B!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Really bummed that I can't access the search feature on here. Dang ! Tried a couple times to contact the site but nothing yet.

Anyway I finally found this thread again. I wanted to show a picture of my old J.S. Fray No.12W brace. I moved it into the workshop today. The paint is nearly all off the wood but I'm leaving it like that.


----------



## DLK

I lost the search feature a while back. Then it started working again. I don't know why. You can always search using google.


----------



## CaptainKlutz

Instant start to 'Drills of your Dreams' collection anyone?









https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/tls/d/mesa-large-lot-of-vintage-wood-working/7196311926.html


----------



## theoldfart

Not a bad price, good selection. Looks to be a big, 14"+ , Pexto In there.


----------



## CFrye

Nice Whimble(SP?) Blaster!



> Instant start to Drills of your Dreams collection anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/tls/d/mesa-large-lot-of-vintage-wood-working/7196311926.html
> 
> - CaptainKlutz


Just looked at this, the price is down to $75!


----------



## Just_Iain

Millers Falls Drill Bit question:









Does this chart look right? I'm trying to figure out what I have and to get the MF# right.

Many Thanks,
Iain


----------



## BlasterStumps

Found this Millers Falls No 108 Universal angular bitstock today in a little junque shop. Might give it a bit more of a clean. Seems to work really nice.


----------



## DLK

Very cool.


----------



## DLK

What is the difference between the various Bell System braces? There 2100s, 2101s, As and Bs.


----------



## theoldfart

Don, try here

https://georgesbasement.com/galootsales/Sale02152007/YankeeBraces.htm


----------



## BlasterStumps

georgesbasement.com has some good info on them


> What is the difference between the various Bell System braces? There 2100s, 2101s, As and Bs.
> 
> - Combo Prof


----------



## theoldfart

Great minds think alike Blaster!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Sorry tof, didn't see that you posted. Our internet has been crap this afternoon. Not sure what is going on with it. Maybe short power outage or sumpin'


----------



## theoldfart

Probably just in a bad mood. The web does that sometimes!


----------



## DLK

Thanks, Kevin and Blaster nice info. But not what I was looking for. I suppose I should be more direct. I don't own any Belly system or Yankee brace. Kevin once told me that they are the best brace. So if I were to buy just one which one should I buy?


----------



## theoldfart

Bell system braces are Yankees(North Bros.). Stanley bought the Yankee line and continued to produce them. The differences between the 2100 and 2101 I'm not sure about, probably internal. I'll pull mine out and see what I have. I wasn't picky, any time I saw saw a Yankee cheap I grabbed it.


----------



## bandit571

Pilot hole drill…









Pre-Stanley North Brothers #41…..Like it better the Stanley ones…


----------



## Brit

2100s have a better lubricant inside. They say that the lubricant that is packed in the ratchet on the 2101s tends to dry out after a while.


----------



## siemensgeek

I bought this Millers Falls No. 12 two speed breast drill this week (along with the mitre box seen in the background). It's missing the auxiliary handle but everything else is there. The first order of business will be removing the rust on the chuck.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I've got a breast drill up on my tool board that came with an auxiliary handle. I removed the auxiliary handle so that when in the wooden holder I made the drill will fit up against the tool board. The handle would have made the drill stick out another 3 inches or so. I'm curious to find out how you guys are storing the auxiliary handle(s) for drill(s) on your tool boards. I know I could just stick a block of wood up there someplace close and stick the threaded portion into that but, I'm just wondering if there taint a better way to display the drill with the aux. handle close so it doesn't go missing.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Well, I did the piece of wood with the hole in it for the threaded part of the aux, handle to fit in. I think, although it looks clunky, it will work well enough to keep the aux. handle together with the drill. I just don't have much imagination when it comes to stuff like this.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Siemensgeek, I've been looking at the pictures of the MF 12 breast drill. Looks like it could be a real handy tool. I like the sliding handle to change the drill speed. Simple but effective way to change speeds. Also looks like the wooden handle will come loose from the crank handle. That will be nice for cleaning it up. Hope you show some pictures of it once you get it cleaned up.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Blaster, Knob-into-block was my approach, too.










Dead center of pic.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nice Smitty. Cool looking tool board you have there.

It gave me a little piece of mind to store the aux handle close to the drill. I have several more aux handles that are just rolling around in a drawer. I need to figure out a way to keep each with its own drill.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You've not seen the Not Wall Hung before?










Sure you have… lots of blog posts and project posts. But yeah, absolutely, gotta keep this stuff together as best we can. The MF eggbeater was my grandpa's.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Very nice Smitty. I'll have to spend some time looking at what all you display there. Some cool tools for sure.

I still need to finish up on putting my tool board together.


----------



## BlasterStumps

It seems I gravitate towards using this drill more than any of the others that I have when I need to drill pilot holes. Why? Well, I believe it is for several reasons. Light weight, well aligned, perfect size swing, and it operates very smoothly. Hard to explain but, it just feels right in hand. Silky smooth to drill with. I only use it with small dia. twist drills. It doesn't take big shanked center bits or even some augers. I found it down in the bottom of a box on the floor under a shelf in Habitat Restore several years ago. Looks to be quite old and is covered with a thick coat of patina. Only can see "Made in USA" on it. Not much to look at but it's for sure one of my favorites.


----------



## theoldfart

Better than the Yankees?

That's high praise indeed Mike. Why don't you send me that 6" Yankee, it'll make you feel better!

It's funny how after a while you learn which tools feel/work better. Brands don't matter nor does an expensive pedigree.


----------



## Mosquito

For some reason, I use my Millers Falls Holdall's more often than my Yankee 2101's. I'm not taking anything away from the Yankee's, as they very well may be the best brace I've ever laid my hands on, but they are certainly heavier. And my first braces were the Holdalls, so that might have something to do with it too lol

Still looking for the 729 (16") though


----------



## siemensgeek

BlasterStumps
The handle can be set to 3 different positions but the 2 speeds are changed by removing the main gear and moving it to a second hole. In one position the large outer ring gear engages a drive gear to increase the speed of the chuck, in the second position the smaller inner gear engages the drive gear for a 1:1 ratio. I'll post pictures when I finish cleaning. The chuck still needs some work. I think the previous owner stuck it in a bucket of water and left it there. It's really rusty but all the parts are there. Right now my job is keeping me on the road so it may be a while.

I'm still working on the drill. Can anyone give me advise on the best way to clean the gear. I don't want to lose the decal. I normally use Metal Rescue for rust removal but I am afraid to soak the decal. Metal Rescue is safe for the paint UNLESS there is rust under the paint, then the paint goes with the rust.

The small level is attached to the drill body to assist with horizontal alignment. Mine is in good shape but I was in an antique store here in Amarillo a couple of days ago looking at pocket knives and there was one of these levels by itself in one of the small item display cabinets. It is priced at $48 so I gently put it back. Heck, I only gave $18 for my whole drill.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Siemensgeek, thanks for sharing the info on the breast drill. I think you will enjoy that tool. My only suggestion on cleaning the crank gear is maybe 409 cleaner. Problem is 409 is a bit scarce these days, especially in my neck of the woods.

I was going thru some more stuff in drawers in the recent days and came upon these two tools. They both have a problem. The little plane needs some TLC on one of the frog screw's threads. The screw will tighten only if you don't have a washer on it. I'm not sure what the fix should be but I might start looking into it. The wooden handle on the Skinner brace has shrunk due to our lack of humidity here in south western Colorado. It will barely turn. The rest of the drill is fine. I have experienced the same problem on one other drill with the wood shrinking. No easy fix that I know of. Anyway, these two tools might just be a couple of projects for this winter.


----------



## BlasterStumps

The wooden handle on this Skinner works just fine. So it might have been something done different when the handles were made for one to be tighter on the crank. I got both drills from a fellow in the UK a couple years ago.


----------



## DanKrager

Blaster, there are a couple ways to loosen that shrunken wooden handle. If one steams it, the expansion will be temporary at best and the moisture is not good for the metal. It could make matters worse by introducing corrosive action. One could do a slow motion version of this by keeping the brace in a high(er) humidity context for a while, watching for rust of course. That risk could be minimized by a good coat of oil perhaps even Camellia oil if you have it.

So, first I would use WonderLoc (or similar) which is a chemical that is used to permanently swell wood fibers in loose chair tenons. I'm not sure how it is best applied in this situation, but I'd start with a hypodermic needle and see if I could get it to run through the handle. Then I would start applying it to the dry outside to see how much would soak in.

The second method would be to take a penetrating oil like WD40 to lubricate the wood metal interface inside the handle. It won't harm the wood like heavier oils might. It will also loosen any rust or minor corrosion that may be the culprit.

Just a couple tried and true ideas to work with.

DanK


----------



## MarioF

Lo and behold…


















the drill…..the brace


----------



## bandit571

These had work to do…









and..


















Red handled one is a Millers Falls No. 1950..aka Buck Rogers Brace drill


----------



## drsurfrat

Speaking of Buck Rogers, look what I found for $10.

I thought it was a yankee screwdriver, but it is an 'automatic' drill (same mechanism I think.)

All 8 bits are there, and they have no twist, just 2 straight flutes.




























This thread is "...of my dreams" but drill this is not. I would snap the smaller bits after a few pushes. There is nothing to keep is oriented or stable. Probably a good drill for drywall or florist foam


----------



## HokieKen

I have one of those Buck Rogers drills Mike and a couple other similar ones. I use them often to pilot holes for small wood screws or to mark the centers on turning stock that might tend to split if I just drove a center into it. The drill "points" that come with it aren't as efficient as twist bits but they don't get stuck either. All-in-all though, it's definitely not a work horse. I must say though, I do find them easier to use to make a straight hole than an eggbeater.


----------



## bandit571

Have both the #100 and the #170…..seem to prefer the North Brothers No. 41


----------



## drsurfrat

I found a rarity - malleable iron drill bit.










I got these loose bits rattling around in metal tool box i boutght. Knew they were junk, but not this bad!


----------



## BlasterStumps

kind of looks like it had been heated.


----------



## bandit571

Random Drill picture..









Millers Falls #100, North Bros #41, Stanley YANKEE #41…..


----------



## siemensgeek

I've been shopping again. This is the first brace I have purchased. I see a lot of them at the antique stores but this was was different. I think it was made by John S Fraye Co. but there is no mfg. co name on the tool. The only thing I can see is No 440 and what may be an 8. I can't find any reference to a model # like that for a John S Fraye brace. The James S Fraye braces I find look very similar to this brace with bands around the handle but the ratchet mechanism is different. I found one reference that said John S Fraye was bought by Stanley and continued making the braces until they ran out of parts. Is this one that was made by Stanley?


----------



## drsurfrat

I think not Stanley. Their bit braces have no model numbers between 114 and 810. The only 440 that Walters lists is a socket chisel.No 4400's either.
-ref: John Walter, "Antique & Collectible Stanley Tools"
I've seen those pewter (?) bands before, look really classy, but I don't know who made it.


----------



## bandit571

Made for Keen Kutter…...Goodell-Pratt Co.

have one in my tool chest….might be able to dig it out…later…..chucks were used on the 1050 model numbers…


----------



## bandit571

Mine is a 10" sweep…









Model Number stamp?









"N 104" ( Navy?)










That be a Walnut handle, with Pewter rings…









Now, IF you will look right about there, between the two oiler holes, there is a "Shield" logo, and something about "Patented".....might be a bit worn?


----------



## siemensgeek

I appreciate all the help. I would like to be able to tie this brace to a manufacturer and an approximate date. I'm a user not an antique tool dealer so the value isn't a concern. I gave $25 for it at an antique store in Rosenburg, TX.

There is no hint of a logo or name anywhere, just No 4408. I haven't been able to tie that model # to any manufacturer or re-brander










I'm still thinking John S Fraye Co made it. I'm no good at identifying the wood used for the handle but I was sure thinking these are rosewood. Here is a John S Fraye example I found:

https://www.georgesbasement.com/galootsales/Sale08272005/BraceB&D-113-Fray-made-eight-inch-sweep-Wedgeway-brand-brace-for-Morley-Bros-store.htm


----------



## bandit571

Chuck might be under the Peck, Stow & Wilcox patents…1900-1910….


----------



## bandit571

Rehab completed…









Millers Falls No. 77….









Gear box was enclosed….sometime in the 60s, maybe?









Crank says it is from Millers Falls, not Greenfield…..









Handle details….

Chuck has three jaws, and the springs are still in good shape…









Not too hateful, for $4?


----------



## KentInOttawa

You find the nicest tool bargains available, Bandit.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I've got several but this one just has the look and feel. No bits in it but I have a full set.


----------



## bandit571

Hanson? Hanson? 









Made in USA….single gear…not really all that big…$2

Then there was this…









With a Phillips tip in it….a Greenlee No. 442, with a rosewood handle…









At full extension….spiral is fully enclosed.

hanson? Hanson? Hmm…


----------



## Bearcontrare

I've got a few "yankees" around. Found out I can chuck a#2 Phillips bit in the medium size ones easily. Got a couple of 1/4" drill chucks with hex shanks. These fit nicely and make it into a push drill as well.


----------



## HokieKen

FWIW, I find push drills better for drilling than the push drivers if yo've never tried one. It's a tighter twist and more powerful return spring. And if you find a vintage one with original bits, most of the "drill points" cut in both directions so the rotation on the return isn't wasted. I have a couple of push drivers and fitted them with 1/4" hex bit adapters and they are super handy to have as well 

I recently started collecting all of the "Buck Rogers" tools that Millers Falls made in the 40's and 50's. I have two of the #100 push drills. I cleaned one up for the collection. The other is a beater that gets used often.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Very nice job on the MF Buck Rodgers drill Kenny.


----------



## bandit571

Part of today's picks was a brace drill…









That turned out to be a Stanley..









No. 923-8in.









Looks like I have a rehab or three to do….$23 for today's haul….


----------



## BlasterStumps

I found another North Bros 1530A a couple days ago. One jaw was missing and the crank was bent out of shape. So I found my parts drill and got the chuck and crank from it. Now I have a second working 1530A. They are quite different though. The one is chromed and the other looks to be a dull nickel looking plating.


----------



## Mosquito

> I found a rarity - malleable iron drill bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got these loose bits rattling around in metal tool box i boutght. Knew they were junk, but not this bad!
> 
> - drsurfrat


Silly Mike, those are drill bits for butter


----------



## Berto

I couldn't resist this little one.
It's the first one I've seen in the wild….....at a flea market none the less.

Millers Falls No 4 Single speed hand drill. 
The smallest crank-type drill that MF offered. (out of production by 1935)
Didn't have any bits….......but that's another rabbit hole I hope I don't go down.
(I'm not married to it - so it may find a new home to someone who collects MF)


----------



## DLK

Nice score. I've been looking for a number 4 that is reasonably priced for a couple of years now.


----------



## bandit571

As for that rusty Stanley 923…









Gave it a going over, today….









Including replacing the worn out jaws in the chuck….Oiled things up, where it said to add oil to….Trying to remember IF there were red painted lines on the chuck's shell….or not…( might have been a Millers Falls "thing")


----------



## KentInOttawa

> As for that rusty Stanley 923…
> 
> Trying to remember IF there were red painted lines on the chuck s shell….or not…( might have been a Millers Falls "thing")
> 
> - bandit571


I've seen a number of the 923s with red or orange paint in the chuck's grooves. None of mine have it.


----------



## bandit571

Yard/Garage Sale items, this morning..









$5 for the Tap&Die set…Fifty cents for the John S. Fray & Co. No. 2 Extension bit…

Not too bad of a morning?


----------



## bandit571

Took a bit of time…but..









All cleaned up, and working….









Even the chuck works as designed….still a bit sticky…may need to find a "spanner Wrench" for it…









Can now really reach out and touch somebody…..

Fifty cents well spent?


----------



## BenDupre

Hi

Found these at a pick. Not as familiar with Irwins as I am with RJs so i beg of your wisdom.

This Irwin set is almost complete. Looks to have a couple jennings bits and a twist bit mixed in. Rest look legit and fairly decent shape. The box is a little tattered and the brass hinges are all broken. One breadboard end of the lid is missing.




























What dates did Irwin market this set in this box?

I know everyone hates the "what is this worth" question so let me ask it this way: I gave $50 for the set and two MF braces. Was that a fair price? I checked sold auctions on Ebay and found 75 to 190 but it's hard to compare condition because all the auctions were too old and the original listings wouldn't show.

Anyone recommend a good resource for learning history and value? When I pick I really want to learn as much as I can about what I find.

Thanks!


----------



## Bearcontrare

i









Have heard some negative comments about the stanley "Defiance" from time to time in the past. This one was given to me by a friend about six years ago, along with some other tools.
Have used this hand drill all weekend while working on a project involving an unknown species of genuine pallet/crate wood. Used this drill because it was the one closest at hand when I started work.
Drilled my pilot holes for screws with it, and counter sunk them with this drill by chucking a hex shank bit in it. Hafta say, I was well pleased with it"s performance, although the gears are slightly noisier than my Millers Falls drills. She did well!
The screws were driven with a Yankee spiral screwdriver. Went into the pilot holes like a shot!


----------



## Bearcontrare

Ben,

Fifty bucks fo all items shown? You did very well. The boxed auger bits, even with a few missing, in this style box is WELL worth what you paid, let alone the braces included in the deal.
Probably your best and easiest place to start your research is the TIME TESTED TOOLS website, operated by one of our fellow jocks.
Congatulations on your great haul!


----------



## BenDupre

Barry Thanks!

I am familiar with Don's site. I lusted after the boxed set of Jennings bits once upon a time, but still don't own one.. not because they are scarce, just because of what they go for. I did manage to secure a set of Stanley's in the plastic roll. and I also have a set of Craftsman IRWIN pattern bits. This box was just something the popped up on FB market so I will probably try to put them up in the CIHI auctions or maybe ebay. I want to try and find the two missing #4 and #11 bits so they can be sold as a complete set. Any advice on where is a good place to look for a couple specific bits? Anyone here have extra IRWINS?

Ben


----------



## BlasterStumps

Anybody looking for a GP Mr. Punch 185 push drill. There is one on Ebay now. I just don't know if I can hold myself back.

edit: looks like more than one so I guess I need to provide a link


----------



## bandit571

Been sitting around in my shop..









Afraid it didn't have a box, though…









It does have about 8 tips….


----------



## Bearcontrare

Here is my latest find. A full set of Craftsman bits in a plastic case. Looks like only two of the bits were used, and that too, only a few times.
The shanks of the bits go into the red holders at the bottom, which contain springs. You push the shank down far enough to clear the red strip at the top, align the bit lead with the hole in the top strip and the spring holds it in place.
The case needs a little cleaning and a a couple of minor repairs, but is in otherwise very good shape. I have no idea when this was made. There are no numbers anywhere on the case.


----------



## Bearcontrare

See how nicely she fits on the benchtop tool rack. Resting nicely below the brace hanging on bent conduit straps. Had thought I'd transfer the bits over to one of my wooden bit boxes. After seeing how this one works, I may just use it as it is.


----------



## sansoo22

Nice find on the auger bits. I don't know what I like better…near pristine bits or the awesome case.


----------



## Bearcontrare

Looking at the lettering on the case, and seeing it's the famous Craftsman grey and red, I'm thinking 1960s, maybe early 70s. Anyone have any thoughts on this


----------



## HokieKen

If this worthpoint listing is accurate, 60's is about right.


----------



## BenDupre

Nice find. Do you have a Craftsman brace?


----------



## Bearcontrare

Yes, Sir, I do. I may even have two Craftsman braces in the hoard. I started a sub collection of vintage tools marked "Craftsman" about 20 years ago, realizing most were made by name brand makers, but sold through Sears. Among my many hand drills are two "Craftsman" made by Millers Falls.
My other full set of Craftsman bits, still in the original roll, belonged to my Grandfather. I do use them from time to time, but they reside normally reside in a vintage tool chest.


----------



## bandit571

2 drills were needed, today…well..









Why change bits, just change drill and all….one for the Pilot holes, and one for the countersinks….both are "Vintage" drills?


----------



## BenDupre

Hello Mr. Rodgers! Your rocket is waiting…


----------



## Bearcontrare

Don't MOST of us keep a countersink chucked in a brace for just such a situation….


----------



## Bearcontrare

The bits shown above have a capital "D" inside a circle. Couldn't find this on any sites showing Craftsman letter codes . Oh well. The bits are very nice, and the case is cool. I like it, anyway…...

I'm sure y'all enjoy seeing that I've used only the finest "free-Ninety-Nine" crate wood from Craigslist in making this bench top tool rack. It's about the only lumber I can afford nowadays….... 8-P


----------



## sansoo22

A neighbor across the street had an estate sale. I bought too much stuff because it was too easy to get it home. Just roll it across the street.

First up a Dunlap bench top drill press with a 1/2 HP Craftsman motor for $40









Also a Stanley #624 egg beater for $20









They had some other nice drills including a couple large Miller Falls but wanted too much for them. The sale was a weird one. Prices were all over the place and they let a "professional" picker in early. Dude grabbed a Stanley #45 in wooden box with super clean decals. He also got all of the 1960s furniture out of the "sitting room" so it was all super nice mid century modern pieces that are super popular right now. Dude knew exactly what items were priced to flip quick for big profit…i wanted to punch him right in the neck.

He did miss this little gem though. At $50 I thought it was well worth it.


----------



## RWE

Looks like a very nice haul Sansoo. I am jealous of the vise. My shop is so small that I have considered doing like Paul Sellers and replacing my side/leg vise with a quick release conventional vise. That is probably not a quick release but it looks like a good solid one.

The Dunlap drill press has a cool look too.


----------



## Bearcontrare

The drill press is just WAY cool!!!


----------



## HokieKen

Great score on the Dunlap in particular. I'd have hauled it across the street too  Vise looks solid too.


----------



## sansoo22

RWE - I didn't think the Morgan was a quick release at first either. But I had it on end between my feet so I could check how smooth it was….the back plate landed on my foot once the release mechanism tripped. I guess that's better than slamming into the steel plate that holds the screw and rods though.


----------



## RWE

> RWE - I didn t think the Morgan was a quick release at first either. But I had it on end between my feet so I could check how smooth it was….the back plate landed on my foot once the release mechanism tripped. I guess that s better than slamming into the steel plate that holds the screw and rods though.
> 
> - sansoo22


Well, it looks like a new bench is in order.

If I had room, I would have my Roubo and I would have a European like Sellers. Maybe his is termed English or Continental.


----------



## sansoo22

I use a Rockler quick release on my current small bench. I'm going to see if I can "adjust" the front apron to get the Morgan on there. Then I need to learn how to build a coal forge so I can melt that Rockler down and bury it in a deep hole as close to hell as possible. No one should ever be forced to use my current vise.


----------



## donwilwol

> Then I need to learn how to build a coal forge so I can melt that Rockler down and bury it in a deep hole as close to hell as possible. No one should ever be forced to use my current vise.
> 
> - sansoo22


It's really simple. A shallow hole in the ground with an air source, like a hair dryer. Pleas video that. 

You'll love that press I'm sure


----------



## bandit571

Hmmm…Spam for Breakfast


----------



## theoldfart

We had this in a bucket of old tools donated to the Railroad Museum.










It's a Miller's Falls star 981. Two speeds and while dirty is in outstanding mechanical shape. They were only produced from something like 1914 to 1917.


----------



## theoldfart

Earlier there was a discussion on hollow tenon augers and a good way to sharpen them. 
This is an AA Woods 









Note the blunt point. It would have been better rounded but still works ok. Jon Zimmer has a little blurb on his web site in the section on hollow augers that explains it better than I can.

http://www.jonzimmersantiquetools.com/tools/bitstock.html

BTW, the one on the left is a Fore Auger.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Thanks Kevin. I needed that info.


----------



## BenDupre

Found these this weekend on FB market. I know they are not rare but I have never seen an untouched set before. I don't think I am going to keep them. Not sure where is the best place to find a home for them.





































Ben


----------



## BlasterStumps

My wife got me a set of "new old stock" Jennings bits just like those. I think only one or two would cut into wood. I put them under the low-power microscope to see what was up. Turns out all but a couple of the larger bits had miss made lead screws. I had to send them back to the seller. I think someone at the factory had collected them from the cull box and made up a set.


----------



## sansoo22

> I don t think I am going to keep them. Not sure where is the best place to find a home for them.
> 
> - BenDupre


If you really aren't going to keep them my shop will make them a nice warm cozy home. They can hang out with all the other vintage/antique stanley tools.


----------



## sansoo22

Refurbished my Miller Falls 6 in No 1324 today.



















I didn't go all out on this one. You can still see some tarnish in the close up. I wanted to restore it to haow it originally was but someone had already stained the handles a dark walnut years ago. When I was sanding them they turned purple. I assume I got into the classic reddish color that came on this to begin with. I didn't have much choices for color at that point so went with TransTint black dye and several coats of rattle can lacquer for the handles.


----------



## HokieKen

Good looking brace Sansoo. That brace would have had "Mahogany-stained hardwood" originally so the dark Walnut appearance may have been original. The earlier models had "ebonized hardwood" though so the black dye was a good choice


----------



## sansoo22

Then I was way off on my date for this one. I thought it had the later style with the reddish stained handles and the water slide MF decal. The black dyed handles are really growing on me. You get some spots in them with like a grey ghosting of the wood grain.


----------



## HokieKen

I got my information from oldtoolheaven. Based on the information there, if you have the smooth jaws, it would date between 1949-1962 and have the Mahogany stained handles. If you have toothed jaws, it would be between 1935-1948 (boxed ratchet started in 1935) and would have had ebonized handles.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Found my GP Mr. Punch. It only has two bits with it so I will have to keep an eye out for some more. I think they are proprietary bits so finding them may be a little tough.

I have the old well-worn North Bros 41 next to it in the picture. I prefer the 41 for pilot holes but the GP seems very nice to use as well.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Sansoo, here is my MF 34. Looks very similar that 1324 you did such a nice job on.

I put the Skinner next to it in the second pic.


----------



## sansoo22

If my handles looked like that I would have just cleaned off the flaking finish and sprayed a clear coat. Mine were much darker but the brace was free and the black is growing on me. Now I just need to find a Miller Falls with an 8" sweep and I will be mostly set on hand drills.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Sansoo, here is my only 8" MF. It is a 133. It almost matches the 34 but with the concealed ratchet. If you can find one like it, they make a good user drill.


----------



## HokieKen

> Found my GP Mr. Punch. It only has two bits with it so I will have to keep an eye out for some more. I think they are proprietary bits so finding them may be a little tough.
> 
> ...
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Does your GP have the splined shanks or the dimpled ones Mike?


----------



## bandit571

The 185 I have uses the splined bits…...dimples were more for the Yankee #41 drills


----------



## BlasterStumps

Sorry guys, been running errands today. Yes the GP drill takes the spline style. I found that I have a few more bits in my little stash of bits that I forgot were in there. So now, I can put on my magnifier head band and make sure they have good tips on them. That'll be fun.


----------



## Bearcontrare

Follow up on the boxed set of Craftsman bits shown above: The case has been cleaned and minor repairs were made. Been using this set for a coupla weeks now. Hafta say, I am liking this box a lot more than I ever thought I would. The springs hold the bits very securely in place while protecting the leads and the shanks. Living in the tool rack as shown, this case is very handy and easy to use. I have a couple of similar wooden boxes which are nice and a couple of rolls also. This case holds the bits so securely and safely, and the size is so convenient, (most rolls are kinda bulky) this may become my "grab and go" set of brace bits for when I'm doing work outside of the shop.


----------



## HokieKen

> Sorry guys, been running errands today. Yes the GP drill takes the spline style. I found that I have a few more bits in my little stash of bits that I forgot were in there. So now, I can put on my magnifier head band and make sure they have good tips on them. That ll be fun.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


I dunno if you need em but if anyone does, here's a Buck Rogers drill with all 8 original drill points for a decent price. If you need a set of points, it'll be cheaper to buy that drill than to buy a set of original bits. The bits look to be in pretty good shape. The drill looks to be well preserved and/or little used and I don't see any rust. They may or may not need sharpening but none are broke, rusty or have the splines boogered up from being chucked up in an eggbeater. And the Buck Rogers is a cool little drill too. Especially when the Tennite handle isn't busted up or turned white


----------



## Notw

Finishing up restoring a Stanley 945 10" brace and when putting everything back together the clip under the head snapped in two. Below is a picture of the part, does anyone know where to get another one of these?


----------



## Notw

Was it something I said? Did I have mask breath?


----------



## HokieKen

Not sure but it looks like a regular circlip might work fine? I can't tell what size you'd need from the picture but you can probably find one that fits.


----------



## Notw

Pretty sure you already have one Ken but Ed Lebetkin appears to have one of the buck rogers drills


----------



## HokieKen

Yep, thanks for the heads up but I have both Buck Rogers models.


----------



## Bearcontrare

I can't figure it out…..

Does anyone know what the purpose was for this screw in a Goodell Pratt drill press? It does NOT have any known function in the self advancement mechanism, which, with the replacement spring, works fine.


----------



## drsurfrat

Might it have held on a protective cover plate?


----------



## Bearcontrare

This is a copy of an original 1922 advertisement. Like most catalogs of the day, it uses a line drawing rather than a photograph. There does appear to be some sort of cover over the self advancing lever arm. Seems a bit odd since the lever arm moves horizontally. Perhaps it's there to provide some protection to one's eyes if the spring should break…. That's only a guess…...


----------



## drsurfrat

Anyone know about the Lewis Patent auger bit? I can't make out the year, but the rest of it says
"JUNE 4, 1XXX"

"LEWIS PAT"

I've looked on MWTCA, google, eBay, and can't find discussion or pictures. It has no center rod, and modern "power" augers have this design - and are called Lewis.



















It is a 7/16 diameter. Of course, if you want it, let me know.


----------



## theoldfart

Bandit, it looks a lot like a Ford bit.


----------



## drsurfrat

It does, and "Ford auger bit" at least gets some internet hits. This one is stamped "LEWIS" tho…

PS Keen Kutter has a similar style, maybe its's related.

PPS - from Swinglydev 2002

106647 "sushandel" <sushandel> 2002‑05‑13 Re: unknown auger

quote

" While on the subject of single twist bits, I have another group of them that
are very similar to the Ford pattern. But these are marked with the patent
date of June 1, 1869 of patent number 90,759 awarded to *Henry C. Lewis*, also
of New Haven, Conn. The patent is for "auger bit with one lip, one spur." 
Three of these bits differ only from the Ford pattern by having the single
spur located at 6 o'clock rather than 2 o'clock. A fourth bit with the same
feature is marked only "Atlas Tool Co." The patent records assembled by Jim
Price show another patent for an "auger bit with one lip, one spur" that was
awarded on the same day, June 1, 1869 (#90,755) to the brace maker, William
A. Ives, also of New Haven. I don't have an example of this bit, but it
seems remarkable that New Haven was host to three patents for very similar
bits over a span of 22 years.
Best regards,
Sandy "


----------



## bandit571

Cordless drills…why change bits…









When you can change drills…


----------



## KentInOttawa

I agree Bandit. Here are 3 of mine on the shelf. I don't even bother to remove the spoke pointer or the countersink bits anymore. I'll probably remove the countersink from the 8" sweep brace once I get a better bit but probably not before.










My 14" sweep brace is also preloaded with my #12 (3/4") bit just in case I need another hole for a bench dog or a holdfast.


----------



## bandit571

Push drills, anyone?









Goodell Pratt Co. 185, Millers Falls No. 100, and a Millers Falls No. 170….

Not your run-of-the-mill North Bros. or Stanleys….


----------



## HokieKen

> Nice score. I ve been looking for a number 4 that is reasonably priced for a couple of years now.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Hey Don, I remembered you were on the prowl for one of these and looked back to dig up the post  Patrick Leach has one on this month's list for $45. #MS54 if you're interested. Top right in pic below.


----------



## DLK

Kenny, thanks for the alert. I have emailed Patrick.


----------



## HokieKen

I almost went after it myself Don. That is a really decent price compared to what they sell for on Ebay. So far, I've avoided falling into the MF Eggbeater collector trap though and I should probably keep it that way ;-)


----------



## DLK

Probably so Ken …. But I have a couple I could sell you ;-)


----------



## HokieKen

I have three Don, #2, #5, 104 and 308. I think that's plenty considering how often they get used ;-) The 104 and 308 are because I wanted to collect all of the Buck Rogers tools. The 2 and 5 were bought to be regular users, and they were for a while, but I have since went to using push drills to do everything I used to use the eggbeaters for. I still keep an eye out for really good deals on them though because restoring them is very satisfying


----------



## DLK

The problem with push drills is (1) you can easily bust through thin material and (2) You can get the bit struck in very hard wood and have a dickens of a time getting it out and thereby break difficult to replace bits. However they do make jobs easier, because you can operate them one handed.


----------



## controlfreak

I get a "good feeling" when I reach for manual drill whether egg beater or brace. They are just more fun.


----------



## Brit

> I have three Don, #2, #5, 104 and 308.
> 
> - HokieKen


Isn't that four Kenny? LOL.


----------



## Brit

> So far, I've avoided falling into the MF Eggbeater collector trap though and I should probably keep it that way ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


This made me chuckle this morning because last night I dosed off on the sofa around 9pm watching TV. The wife left me where I was and went to bed. I woke up around 11.30pm and went to bed myself. I rarely sleep for more than 6 hours a night, so consequently I woke up at 3.30am and couldn't get back to sleep again. I got up and opened ebay and started searching for an eggbeater. I almost bought this, but luckily I came to my senses after adding up the purchase price, import duties and postage. One of you should definitely get it though because I doubt it will be there long and there's no restoration needed.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185071856046

Although I love the MF No.5, what I really want is a Yankee 1530A in good condition. Not very common this side of the pond though. There are a couple on ebay in the US, but neither of them took my fancy.

I ended up purchasing this one from Jon Zimmer's site. I'll still have to pay import duties and postage, but at least it will be for a tool I really want.



















If we're lucky, Kev will post a few pics of his excellent 1530A. Come on Kev, show us the goods!


----------



## bandit571

Just wait until you discover Goodell Pratt Co. drills…..


----------



## HokieKen

I'm surprised a Brit would want a Yankee. Rebellious bastards.


----------



## Brit

Wash your mouth out young man. LOL.


----------



## Brit

Not going to happen Bandit. I've got enough hand drills now. Since posting my purchase of the 1530A above, I've also bought a MF No.5 that I saw on Etsy. I've got to make a new spring for one of the jaws and give it a bit of love, so I might end up doing a full restoration on that one.

I have to be honest and say I never really use hand drills, but I do like looking at them )


----------



## HokieKen

That #5 you linked is way too rich for my blood. And restoration is the bulk of the action that eggbeaters see in my shop so why would I skip that? ;-)


----------



## Brit

Errr…because like me, you haven't got any time Kenny? I get it though. I like doing the odd resto too.


----------



## HokieKen

You're right about time for sure Andy. Somehow, I have it in my mind that eventually I'll get to all these tools and projects that I keep piling up  Only 20-some years until retirement!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Hope the 1530A turns out to be a good one Andy. I had to go thru three to get one good one. Now I have one that works pretty smooth, one that is marginal, and one that is only parts.


----------



## Brit

Well I trust Jon Zimmer and he says everything works fine, so fingers crossed.


----------



## theoldfart

Out and about right now, I'll post Yankee pics when we get home.


----------



## theoldfart

These are the left coast Yankees!









From the left two 1550's, a 540 and a 1545.

Braces are an eight and two twelves. The ten is at the railroad.


----------



## Brit

Thanks Kev.


----------



## Brit

They are some mean machines you've got there Kev. Lovely collection.


----------



## theoldfart

Andy, I like the ability to drill irrespective of which direction you turn the crank. I intend to get one like yours if something shows up near me.


----------



## HokieKen

Say huh Kev? The chuck turns one way regardless of which way the crank turns?


----------



## Brit

Yep


----------



## HokieKen

Well ain't that spiffy!


----------



## theoldfart

Pretty cool, eh?

They advertised it as being good for mechanics working in tight spaces.


----------



## BlasterStumps

they're cool until that little mechanism get fouled up, which seems to happen quite easily, then not so cool. I took one of the transmissions off a 1530A to see if I could fix it. Nope!


----------



## BlasterStumps

here's one for you Kev, a Stanley Bell Systems B. It has the same thermoplastic pieces including the direction control knob. I believe it was made late in the game after Stanley started making North Bros drills.


----------



## theoldfart

Blaster, I managed to disassemble the 1550. Turned out just dirt inside it. Disassemble was quick, reassemble not so much. I had to fab a paper thin brass shim to hold the tabs together and be able to pull it out after it was together. NEVER AGAIN!


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have not come across a 1550 yet. I've got a couple 1555 two speed models but might latch on to a 1550 if I see one in the wild.


----------



## theoldfart

My dream Yankee s a 1005 bench drill.


----------



## Brit

Back in 2011 I posted this pic of a couple of MF drills I own. On the left is a Millers Falls No.1980 (this one is between 1925 and 1940). It is 15 1/4" long, two speeds with ratcheting handle. Chuck capacity 0-3/8". On the right is a No.2B (circa 1929). 10 years on and I don't believe I've used them once. LOL.


----------



## HokieKen

Never actually seen one of the 1980's Andy but it is an interesting design. If you get a chance, I'd love to see a picture of the other side where the gears are. You can narrow the age of it down a little further via the trademark. If it has the Millers Falls, MA location, it's pre-1931. If it has Greenfield, MA it's 1931 or later.


----------



## DLK

Does any know where I can get a set of diamond-shaped drill points to use with a MF no. 4?


----------



## Brit

I gave up looking for them a few years back Don. They are pretty rare. My No.4 will just be a wall hanger I think.


----------



## HokieKen

Can't say I've ever ran across a set of the diamond points Don. I'll keep any eye out though.


----------



## DLK

The diamond-shaped drill points were apparently included with the purchase of a MF no. 4.

You might recall that Kenny alerted me to a a No. 4 that came up for sale from Patrick Leach. Unfortunately, someone got their email to Patrick befor mine arrived and it was sold. Patrick however sold me a No. 4D which has a chuck that will accept small twist bits. (Hence I don't really need the diamond-shaped bits, but yes do keep a look out for them.)

It was $10 more, but I have have been searching long enough so I bought it.










with shipping it came to a hefty $64.90. Over twice what I paid for other hand drills.

It runs a little rough so I may fettle it a bit. So this completes (more or less) my desired acquisition of numbers 1,2,3,4,5 and 7. Although I have a 4D and not a 4. (There is apparently no number 6 and I do not know why.)
I also have an extra 2A and 2AG. I am not sure exactly if they have some advantage over the plaine No. 2 or not.

I feel you could rock back and forth with the diamond-shaped bits, which may be an advantage to the jewler.


----------



## drsurfrat

my German Yankee (?!?) worked out to be a full quarter inch. i got internal measurements witha a stick, and ground the notches. They don't pull out, so i got close enough. There was enough length to get a second piece, hollow ground.


----------



## HokieKen

> ...
> 
> It runs a little rough so I may fettle it a bit. So this completes (more or less) my desired acquisition of numbers 1,2,3,4,5 and 7. Although I have a 4D and not a 4. (There is apparently no number 6 and I do not know why.)
> I also have an extra 2A and 2AG. I am not sure exactly if they have some advantage over the plaine No. 2 or not.
> 
> I feel you could rock back and forth with the diamond-shaped bits, which may be an advantage to the jewler.
> 
> - Combo Prof


Don, you probably already know this but, the 4D didn't originally come with any bits. The #4 came with the diamond points but since it had a collet chuck, the shanks may be square? I'm not sure, I've never actually seen the diamond points. Just a thought, they may or may not fit in the chuck on your 4D.

And, just FWIW, it seems like your 4D may be a little rarer than the #4? Looking back through the sold listings on Ebay, there were several #4s but I only saw one 4D. Also, based on the sold prices on Ebay, Mr. Leach was right in line on price. It wasn't a steal but you certainly got a fair deal 

Regarding it running a little rough, I see it doesn't have any stabilizing pinion opposite the spindle pinion and there's no LRRCW or other counter measure present. So, it's probably always going to run a little rougher than the ones you have that do have a pinion or stabilizer on the handle side of the drive gear.

I'll keep an eye open for the diamond drill points but in any case, congrats on filling that slot in your collection


----------



## HokieKen

> my German Yankee (?!?) worked out to be a full quarter inch. i got internal measurements witha a stick, and ground the notches. They don't pull out, so i got close enough. There was enough length to get a second piece, hollow ground.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - drsurfrat


Well done Mr. Industrious! Maybe you could post the dimensions you came up with and the model of driver it is? I've never seen a 1/4" inch bit for a push driver so it would be good if the information existed somewhere on the interwebs for posterity


----------



## bandit571

A Stanley made bit I have…will NOT fit into a Millers Falls made chuck….hmmm…Millers Falls being just a hair smaller in diameter…so..what sizes did Millers Falls use? Later models WERE also made in Germany, BTW…


----------



## Brit

Probably measured in millimeters then Bandit if they were manufactured in Germany.


----------



## HokieKen

Millers Falls used 7/32 and 9/32 that I know of Bandit. Yqnkee used those sizes plus 5/16. Millers Falls may have used 5/16 as well but not on any drivers that I've seen. Unfortunately, I've never been able to find the chuck sizes documented for Millers Falls push driver models.


----------



## Brit

My 1530A arrived today. Everything appears to be OK with it. I've oiled it and I'll let that do its thing for a couple of days before giving it a clean.


----------



## DLK

Thanks Kenny. The chuck is a two jaw chuck and has a 45 degree slot in each side, which I think will fit a square shaft. I have some a bunch of square shaft bits that came with a multi-tool and I can check if these will fit. But of course as I have pointed out it will take small bits, so I can use it.

The number 4 was made for 52 years, whereas the 4d was made for only 22 years, so you may be correct that it is more rare.

What does the d stand for? Why are there not types 4a,4b and 4c?

What is a LRRCW ?

I will clean out some of the gunk in the gear and hope it runs a little smoother.

It is useable and I did drill a small hole. It drills slowly because the gear is so small. Perhaps this is desirable for jewelry.

Traveling now. Currently in Queensbury, N.Y.  in Don Wilwol country (LOL). Not here to see Don, but instead to see my wifes brother and sister. (God help me.)


----------



## HokieKen

LRRCW= Little railroad car wheel. Google "George's Basement". Lots of good info there on the eggbeaters.


----------



## drsurfrat

The bit dimensions are larger than any you have talked about so far:









There is a tiny bit of play when the bit is mounted in the tool, but tolerable for use.

And the tool:









The only mark on the tool. It is only "Germany", not West Germany, so no idea about the year of mfg.


----------



## HokieKen

.281 = 9/32" which is one of the standard sizes Mike. I wonder if that's the original bit size?


----------



## drsurfrat

How did I miss that - don't answer. That 1/32 is probably the slop that I can feel.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Took a ride yesterday to a couple wineries nearby. On the way back, stopped in at an antiques store. Picked a Record Multi-plane and also another North Bros. brace. It's a 2101A 8" but it is a little different than the others that I have. It did not have the green dry grease in it. It has oil holes front and back. I took a chance on it for $15. Now that I have it cleaned and lubed, it runs smooth.


----------



## Brit

Nice find.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Andy. One thing about the North Bros drills like this one is that there is no wood on them so getting one shipped over to your neck of the woods should not see any trouble with customs. Even the 2100 braces have a non wood handle and button I believe.


----------



## Brit

They do Mike. I know because I've already had one of those shipped over some years ago. LOL.


----------



## DLK

Does anyone have RJ 101 (coarse thread) numbers 10 and 15 that they could sell me?


----------



## ac0rn

What is a RJ 101?


----------



## theoldfart

Russell Jennings brace bit with a coarse thread.


----------



## bandit571

IF I get time tomorrow…I'll look through my stash….will let you know..

#10 and #15, right?


----------



## DLK

> IF I get time tomorrow…I ll look through my stash….will let you know..
> 
> #10 and #15, right?
> 
> - bandit571


Yes RJ with a coarse feed screw.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Oops. Wrong thread.


----------



## bandit571

Ok…hauled this "Black Box" out from the shelf..









And yes, you NEED to use them handles…pop the lids open…









Been awhile, hasn't it…sorted through…looking for non-Irwins/Craftsman..









There is even a #20 bit in the stash…Craftsman, at that….









Kept sorting through…see anything useful?









Strange looking bit…

All of these are course threads….

One other item…









When you NEED that longer reach…who ya gonna call?









Drill bit fits just right….and..









That is a hex shanked VIX bit…

Need to go back and wipe all these down with an oily brush and rag….get rid of the rust bunnies. Threw out one auger bit…cutters/spurs were MIA….


----------



## DLK

I think I see a 10, is there also a 15? What you want for them? P.M. me.


----------



## DanKrager

Bandit, if you have a #6 (3/8") RJ 101 (a Russell Jennings coarse thread pilot) PM me w price including shipping. Thanks for looking. I can't see the picts clearly enough to determine….

DanK


----------



## bandit571

Question being WHO made the Fultons ( have a #6 coarse thread) and WHO made the Craftsman bits?

I have a #15,,,except is is from MY-T-CO , Melvin, OH.

Of the two #10s…one is a MINT Craftsman 10/16, coarse thread….the other simply says "Made in USA"

IF you two still want these bits..all I need is an address to send them to…

Not sure I'd want to try the #20 bit out….would have to use the Stanley 14" sweep brace….


----------



## DavePolaschek

If you want to dump the 20, I've got a 12" brace and am pretty sure I could use it. I don't have to drill inch and a quarter holes often, but when I do, an auger would be much nicer than a spade bit.


----------



## DLK

It turns out I did have a number 15. So I need only a number 10. I should look for one that has Russell Jennings written down its shaft, but meanwhile I would take a number 10 from you *Bandit* if I can get it cheap. If not I am sure I will eventually stumble across one. Actually I am sure I have a box of bits I have not unpacked somewhere. I just need to remember where I put it.


----------



## bandit571

So..all I require is an address to to send each padded envelope to….

one with a #6 ( DanK)

one with two #10s ( Don K)

A one with a #20 (Dave P.)

And I'll bag them up and ship them out….


----------



## bandit571

Went back to the shop to retrieve that #20 bit, for Dave….and found out I have a second one….one for me, one for Dave…works.

DanK's #6 is bagged up and ready to mail….careful when you open that thing…has a couple "extra" items along for the ride…


----------



## DLK

I sent you my address in the messages.

You don't need send both of the number 10s, but you can if you want to.


----------



## bandit571

Called "Paying it forward"


----------



## DavePolaschek

Address sent. Gracias, Bandit!


----------



## DLK

Thankyou Bandit!


----------



## bandit571

Heading to Post Office in a little bit….will send out Tracking numbers later….


----------



## DLK

You are a gentleman and a scholar!


----------



## bandit571

Be waiting at your mailboxes, next Monday…Happy Turkey Day..


----------



## Notw

Bandit you do a lot better than I do at finding things, I have been looking for a full set #4-#16 of auger bits with no luck (Ebay has been a little too rich for me) not real specific on brand, just a good user set. Any leads on a full set?


----------



## donwilwol

> Bandit you do a lot better than I do at finding things, I have been looking for a full set #4-#16 of auger bits with no luck (Ebay has been a little too rich for me) not real specific on brand, just a good user set. Any leads on a full set?
> 
> - Notw


I may have a set or two. Are you just looking for bits #4-#16 or do you want them to be the same manufacturer as well?

You may need to remind me. Don't be afraid to bug me about it. I'm old with a short attention span.


----------



## bandit571

Might be….









A full set in there? Maybe?


----------



## drsurfrat

Jason, I have a handful of spares, if you just want users I could pick you out one each of what I have extra. It wouldn't be a complete set, though, certainly not matching, and most aren't sharp.


----------



## Notw

wow, thanks guys, I don't use augers much but have two braces and would like to have a set of bits to go with them. Matching set would be awesome but I'm not too picky either


----------



## bandit571

Let me dig through that box, tomorrow…as I think there might be at least 3 full sets in there….from #3 up to #18…

will let you know…


----------



## ac0rn

Notw
From an inheritance, the #8, and #16 have been shortened. Do you have a local charity?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

^ that's a great set.


----------



## ac0rn

The two following sets also inherited from Old Tom.
As I have a working set, these will eventually be sold.

First set





































And the second set














































Tom really liked to collect


----------



## DLK

Wow, I've never seen such clean sets of old RJs and Irwins.


----------



## HokieKen

I have a set of auger bits and a couple of braces. I just can't convince myself that using them is a good use of my energy. I don't know why but, as much as I enjoy using most hand tools I still almost always burn electrons to bore holes. Even for large holes that I can't do on the drill press, I use speedbore bits in my hammer drill.


----------



## Notw

"Old Tom" really took great care of his tools


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Notw
> From an inheritance, the #8, and #16 have been shortened. Do you have a local charity?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Jeff


I have a few from an inheritance that had been shortened like that. It took me a while, but I recently figured out that it was so that they could be used in an old (pre-Jacobs) post drill chuck.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I made a box like those shown above a while back. The other day I opened and closed it only to have the one side clap against the other side so that it gave out a clap so loud that it made my ears ring even worse than they normally do. Good project for this winter to revisit the box build to come up with something so it doesn't clap together so bad.


----------



## Notw

> Notw
> From an inheritance, the #8, and #16 have been shortened. Do you have a local charity?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Jeff


Thank you Jeff, this was very generous, I was singing the tales of your awesomeness last night to my wife and she reminded me about Food Lion doing a feed the hungry drive. I will be making a donation to them either today or tomorrow. Thank you again

I've said it before but woodworkers are some of the most kind generous people with not only material things but also with their time, typically a more precious commodity.


----------



## HokieKen

I'll second that! I got a couple of block planes from Jeff earlier this year and all he asked in return was that I donate something to a local charity. He's good people )


----------



## donwilwol

Did everyone get what they needed? At one time I started cleaning and sorting. They wound up under my bench.


----------



## bandit571

Tracking 3 envelopes at the moment…Have a box ready to send out…


----------



## Notw

Don you got an #8 and #16?


----------



## bandit571

Sorted through that box of bits….amazing how many "extras" I had in there…









Mostly Irwins…#4 through #16….missing only a #11 and a #13….

4,5,6,7,8,9, 10, 12, 14,15, and #16

Hmmm..did they even made a #13?


----------



## bandit571

Holland, MI…and a place over in IN…..you have Mail, today…..AZ looks to be on Monday…..


----------



## DanKrager

Bandit, I regret to inform you that today I received two #10 Irwin bits. But not the desired #6 RJ 101. Did the bags get mixed up?

DanK


----------



## DLK

> Bandit, I regret to inform you that today I received two #10 Irwin bits. But not the desired #6 RJ 101. Did the bags get mixed up?
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


Yes there was a mix up. I got a No 6. auger bit, a countersink bit, and a flat screwdriver bit. I was suppose to get 2 RJ #10s (not Irwin).


----------



## bandit571

Might have….


----------



## HokieKen

I guess when you give that many tools away logistics are bound to bite you sooner or later ;-) At least they're both LJs so it's easily resolved!


----------



## DLK

> Did everyone get what they needed? At one time I started cleaning and sorting. They wound up under my bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Don W


I am still looking for a number 10 RJ 101. Actually the earlier version of RJ 101, that just has Russell Jennings written down the shank and has a coarse lead screw would be better. Do you have one?


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Don i might have one. I just found it today at a sale. Ill get a pic

Can't see it in the pic but it says Russell Jennings on the shaft. Not sure the lead screw is right though? I actually have 2 but one is quite rusty


----------



## DLK

That looks correct! Can you come over tomorrow, I can trade you something for it?


----------



## DanKrager

Yah the Bandit packages did get swapped labels and we've worked it out. Thank you again, Bandit. So I'm still in the market for a #6 RJ 101.

DanK


----------



## Thedustydutchman

I'll bring em both over tomorrow Don, you can pick whatever one you want. What time?


----------



## DLK

sent you a message. But how about afternoon, say 1:00pm or whenever it is convenient for you.


----------



## donwilwol

Sorry guys. I haven't been able to keep up. I have not had much shop time. For RJ I don't have anything above a #8. There might be close to a complete set based on size, but nothing with all the same manufacturer.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Cleaned up my father in laws brace. I can't read the logo anymore but from pictures I think its a millers falls. It cleaned up pretty well although its surely led a hard life. My father in law tends to abuse his tools. This is with the unsharpened lakeside bits he also gave me. It works wonderfully after cleaning and oiling. Looks like rosewood handles on it. I am absolutely in love with this old brace. It just feels right. This will take over as my main user from now on.


----------



## Thedustydutchman

Cleaned up my father in laws brace. I can't read the logo anymore but from pictures I think its a millers falls. It cleaned up pretty well although its surely led a hard life. My father in law tends to abuse his tools. This is with the unsharpened lakeside bits he also gave me. It works wonderfully after cleaning and oiling. Looks like rosewood handles on it. I am absolutely in love with this old brace. It just feels right. This will take over as my main user from now on.

Edit, I have tried to get the pic posted the right way multiple times. I only use my phone to post as I do not own a computer. This forum is they only one im on that is so difficult to post pictures. Sorry if it bothers you.


----------



## bandit571

hey…at least I got ONE of those three envelopes to the right house….kind of hard to confuse a #20 with a #6…


----------



## DavePolaschek

Yep! The #20 got here. Was going to take it for a drive today, but ended up getting called out to the yard to dispose of a cactus that was in the wrong place. Sounds like tomorrow is pretty clear, though.


----------



## Notw

anyone find an extra Irwin #8 or #16, I got the gorgeous set from Jeff today and now I'm excited to get full versions of the last two that were cut short?


----------



## bandit571

Could be..









#4 through #16…missing the #11, and the #13 is all….


----------



## bandit571

While putting away the rest of that set…lookee what I found…Besides a Greenlee No. 18..








Soo, who wanted a Russel Jennings No. 6?









With the name stamped on the shaft….









Not sure IF this is coarse or fine thread on the snail….will need a file to sharpen a bit….

Let me know…hopefully, I'll get this to the correct house…I hope…


----------



## DLK

Thats a coarse thread. It was Dan who wanted it. I got what I needed from Jerry.


----------



## DanKrager

Yes, I wanted the #6 RJ101 (coarse thread). It doesn't look coarse in the picture, but I'll trust the one holding it. And I can sharpen it with a proper auger file!

A letter is headed your way as of today bandit. Thank you.

DanK


----------



## DLK

> Yes, I wanted the #6 RJ101 (coarse thread). It doesn t look coarse in the picture, but I ll trust the one holding it. And I can sharpen it with a proper auger file!
> 
> A letter is headed your way as of today bandit. Thank you.
> 
> DanK
> 
> - Dan Krager


I think the one shown is pre the RJ 100 and RJ 101 designation and in my opinion these have a coarseness between RJ 100 and RJ 101, but Kevin says that they are the same as RJ 101. It certainly does not look like a fine thread to me.


----------



## DavePolaschek

So today I needed to bore some holes for a small staked table I'm making. I turned the legs down just a smidge too far, and instead of needing a 20, I needed an 18 to fit the legs. Said a bad word and got out the hollow auger and brought them down so a 16 would do the trick because I do have one of those. So the 20 remains unused, but only because I didn't stop in time while working on the lathe.


----------



## bandit571

Got to checking that "6" RJ bit…..thought it looked a bit too bit to be 3/8"....yep..it is a 9/16"...

However, I also found a 3/8" version of that bit..will send them both along…( 6/16" = 3/8", right?)

At least Irwin would put a line showing whether it was a 6 or a 9…hmmmm.


----------



## ac0rn

From an old Stanley Catalog:
"No. 100 auger Bits have a *double thread* on the screw and are recommended for boring is soft wood. No. 101 bits have a coarse *single thread* for fast boring in gummy or extremely hard wood" 
The picture above appears to have but a single thread on the lead screw. A 101 bit.


----------



## bandit571

Sooo, how many remember when a drill had it's own METAL case?









And came with a handy drill index inside?

















When a B&D drill had a metal body?...although, the handles were plastic..









Both of them….?


----------



## DanKrager

This adventure has turned out to be a learning experience for many of us! Yes, #6 = 6/16 =3/8. I have the complete set of proper 100s and the set of 101s is missing only the #6. A spare #6 100 fills the slot for now, but since I'm not a collector or anything it should be replaced with a more proper item.

I just wish the 9/16" was a #77 dowel cutter. I made some extension cord reels using 1/2" PVC and it turns out to have a 9/16" ID. So 1/2" dowel handles for cranking are really sloppy. I found a billet of AL that is just enough oversize in all dimensions that I will be able to machine a cutter holder that matches the originals (except in AL). I bought two spare cutters from the guy making them.

Happy Thanksgiving to all you rascals.

DanK


----------



## DLK

I might have a 9/16 dowel auger bit. I will have to look.


----------



## KentInOttawa

All this brace & bit discussion moved them to the front of my mind, Then I had an epiphany about a solution to a problem that I've been working on. So I pulled out my Stanley 923-14 and I sharpened up a couple of #12 bits and went to town.










After bottoming out the shorter but otherwise superior bit, I switched to the longer bit.










I'm currently about 9" in, with another inch and 2 more holes to go. Break time.


----------



## Notw

I bet you don't even need a shop heater after all that


----------



## bandit571

NotW: your package is scheduled to arrive this coming Saturday…small, Flat Rate box.


----------



## Notw

> NotW: your package is scheduled to arrive this coming Saturday…small, Flat Rate box.
> 
> - bandit571


WooHoo I love packages, especially when they have tools!


----------



## bandit571

Happy Turkey Day…bunch of Misfits….


----------



## DanKrager

ComboProf,, appreciate the sentiment but I have almost all the auger tools one could need including several types of tenon cutters aka dowel auger bits. This was a specific wish for a cutter for the Stanley 77 dowel maker. They do exist in the wild rarely and so far are more expensive than the machine itself.

DanK


----------



## DavePolaschek

Dan, if you decide to make cutters for the Stanley 77, I may be interested in the odd sixteenths. I've got all the evens, but I'm sure at some point I'll discover a need for an odd sixteenth.


----------



## bandit571

A package is out for delivery, this morning..


----------



## RWE

Well I did not make out like "Bandit" but close. Picked up these 4 items today. I mainly wanted the Jennings bit (#12, 3/4 inch), but took the other 3 items to the cashier at a Flea Mall. She quoted me, $2.00 apiece for the 4 items. I was ok with that. I figured the push drill was some modern and not so good an item, but for $2.00, why not.










After getting home and inspecting it with a magnifying glass, the push drill is a North Brothers, Handyman. I remember reading on here that Stanley bought out North Brothers, so this must be from that later time period. I will do some research on it. If any of you know about the time period for the Quasi-Yankee drill, chime in. For what it is worth, feels solid, in very good shape. I will suffer the shame of having a Handyman tool and keep it. Actually looks very handy to use to start screws or nails. Pun intended.

Cashier told me the entire booth was 55% off, so I got the two flat head brace bits and the Handy/Yankee, the Jennings all for $3.90.

Maybe this will give me some creed with the Bandit??


----------



## bandit571

Handyman No. 33H…









Compared to a North Bros (pre-Stanley) No. 135…..

That drill bit in your #33H should fit quite nicely in a North Brothers "Yankee" No. 41….


----------



## RWE

Thanks Bandit for the info above.

It has been my week for brace/bits. I have a couple of what I have been calling chamfering bits. Multiple facets on a cone. I assumed they were designed to be used to cut a recess for screw heads and that is how I used them.

So I just picked up this "cone bit". It makes me think it is for the same purpose, just a smoother cut with one cutting blade in a smooth cone.

I went on Ebay to research it a bit and one seller stated that the chamfering bits were used to ream out the ends of copper pipe and such.

I am out of town and don't have a picture of my chamfering bit, but here is one of the "cone bit".

Anybody know what a cone bit and a chamfering bit were used for historically speaking?










I checked on the flat head screwdriver bits shown two posts above and was surprised that they were listing around $15 to $20 on Ebay. I assume they are common enough in the Northeast, but I have not seen them here in the Southeast before.


----------



## theoldfart

The one you have pictured above is a countersink bit for wood screws. There are several styles for wood. The multifaceted one you mentioned works better as a deburring tool for metal, it leaves an uneven countersink hole in wood.


----------



## bandit571

Just a look around…









Main selection inside the tool cabinet….seems to be one missing?









Right between the Stanley 14" and the PEXTO 12"...
.








Ah..there it is…with a helper….and over in the tool cabinet door..









Locked away, to keep them from falling out everytime I open the door…HUGE one is a Millers Falls No. 2-01

And…about half of the shop's Push Drill selection…(the Goodell Pratts and Millers Falls versions are upstairs in another chest)









Just a look around…


----------



## ac0rn

Bandit- Why aren't the bits already in the braces? Just the countersink bit?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

The Millers Falls Anvil Drill!










Dreamy!


----------



## HokieKen

Oh my. Now I need a cold shower.


----------



## theoldfart

Damn, just peed in my pants!

Smitty, tell me you got it buddy!


----------



## HokieKen

I've seen the anvil vise before on Ebay (I bid a lot and lost by a mile) but never seen one complete with the drill post. That is really drool worthy. It's not a Miter Planer but it's pretty awesome.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

> Damn, just peed in my pants!
> 
> Smitty, tell me you got it buddy!
> 
> - theoldfart


Hah! No, it's on the 'bay now, waiting for you!


----------



## theoldfart

Don't tell me that, I'm not a collector!


----------



## donwilwol

> Don't tell me that, I'm not a collector!
> 
> - theoldfart


But it's The "Millers Falls Anvil Drill vise" looks so cool thing!


----------



## HokieKen

Now why didn't that show up in my "Millers Falls" search alerts? That one's even steeper than the last one I saw.


----------



## GaryCN

> Hand drills.
> 
> Augers.
> 
> Bit braces.
> 
> This is your new home. Show off yours!
> Looks just like the one I have.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Bertha


----------



## Bearcontrare

Just when I thought I had the hand cranked drill presses I "need", (and about all the wife can stand) THIS beauty shows up…... OK, that commandment about coveting just jumped down the crapper.
Ah want me wunna them , Ah want me wunna them! As little Ralphie's father said about the leg lamp, "it's indescribably BEAUTIFUL!!!"....... So much good stuff out there, calling our names…....


----------



## theoldfart

I'll stand pat with the two i currently have.

A millers Falls 10









And a Candy Otto 00










Now if a North Bros. 1005 in good shape comes over the horizon I will deny the above proclamation.


----------



## CFrye

> And a Candy Otto 00
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - theoldfart


If I ever found a Candy Otto I'd be saying OO! LOL


----------



## theoldfart

Should have spelled it Canedy


----------



## CFrye

I know. I just couldn't let it slide ;-)


----------



## theoldfart

Understandable.


----------



## bandit571

Millers Falls No.2-01..
.








At 14-1/2" long…









And, can use up to a 3/8" shank bit…..makes some of my other drills look like toys…









Goodell Pratt Co. #329..and a BLUE Stanley….


----------



## bandit571

While out and about, today….









I could have bought a set…..brace and all….$$$..or









That wooden case under the Match plane opens like a book, with brace bits on every page (Russel Jennings?)
There was a wooden folder hanging up behind the Match plane, too…









Or, buy a bucket full….
Heart of Ohio Antique center, Harmony, OH..


----------



## BlasterStumps

Since this thread needs some dusting off…I thought I would show an old tool that I picked today. It says No 2 on the crank. The top cap is missing from the handle. Works fairly smooth and has three chuck jaws. I might be tempted to clean it up and repaint. I have had a 2A for some time but this one seems older. 1910 or so


----------



## DevinT

Very nice. I bet that will clean up nicely.


----------



## Bearcontrare

Looks like a good old Millers Falls. They're really nice to use. Very smooth action.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

You might consider holding off on a refurb until a cap comes your way… I've sought after a rosewood cap for a G-P in one of my shop drawers for years, no joy. Pretty much always find them attached to drills nicer than mine, with bigger price tags than I want to pay for a parts tool. YMMV.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Probably good advice Smitty. If I had access to antique shops like Bandit does, I would probably find a top cap in a flash : ). We don't have anything like what he shows in this neck of the woods.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I found this brace drill out on a deck in the weather at the shop we went to today. I really like the drill and it works very nice. Actually looks like it has had very little use but the weather has taken a toll. Since it is a nice working drill with a nice chuck, and there is virtually no slop in the front I am thinking of making a user drill out of it. I would like to fix up the furniture some though and not sure how to go about that. It's some type of hardwood with black paint on it now. Any suggestions?


----------



## BlasterStumps

well, didn't get any suggestion on what to do on the wood so I did what I could with what I had. The handle and button are some kind of bland looking hardwood but after cleaning it up I think it looks a little better now. Some of you might wonder why I went to the effort on a 917 Stanley but I think it is a very good drill myself. It will take 1/8" up to 1/2" round twist bit besides the normal wood auger bits. And it seems nearly unused so I couldn't just let it go to pot on that porch of the antiques shop. After fixing it up some, I am pretty happy that I did buy it the other day, I think it will be a nice user brace.


----------



## DLK

It looks good to me!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Well done!


----------



## donwilwol

It will definitely be a good user


----------



## EricFai

A few that I picked up last year at an estate sale.









Almost a complete set, need to find a #13.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nicely put together Eric.


----------



## bandit571

Once the latest box project is done….I have a small drill to rehab….









Goodell Pratt Co. No. 477…..









There USED to be a paper Label on the drive wheel….may not survive the rehab..









Chuck has been oiled up, jaws were stuck….all other moving parts are soaking in oil, right now..

Might see IF I can bring it back to like new? From before 1931, I think….

New question will be…where to hang this at?


----------



## BlasterStumps

Bandit, did you look to see what the model number was of that brace hanging in that shop? 


> While out and about, today….
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could have bought a set…..brace and all….$$$..or
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That wooden case under the Match plane opens like a book, with brace bits on every page (Russel Jennings?)
> There was a wooden folder hanging up behind the Match plane, too…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or, buy a bucket full….
> Heart of Ohio Antique center, Harmony, OH..
> 
> - bandit571


----------



## bandit571

Had too many drills, didn't really look at the model numbers. Label on the handle seemed to be a Millers Falls style…


----------



## bandit571

Parts is parts..









The before…and…









The After…awaiting a can of red paint for the gear,,









Originals had that shaft painted black? Meh..









Logo on the crank, says it is a No. 0477 Goodell Pratt Co. "TOOLSMITHS" 
Just hanging around, for now..









While I build a stand for that drill press to get moved to…


----------



## Mosquito

Recently picked this neat countersink up because it's a disease… It's an Otis A Smith patented adjustable countersink


----------



## DevinT

Woah, now THAT is cool, Mos!


----------



## HokieKen

Yeah that is pretty cool Mos'. Don't think I've ever seen one quite like that. For purposes of scale, what size drill bit is that?


----------



## Mosquito

That is a great question lol No idea, it came with it :-D I'll check tonight, but I'm guessing about 1/4". 
It can take up to 3/8" bits, according to the catalog. It's an Otis A Smith adjustable counter sink; same Otis A. Smith of the Fales Patent plane


----------



## HokieKen

Gotcha, that tells me what I wanted to know. Just wasn't sure if it was 1/4"-ish or 3/4"-ish


----------



## Bearcontrare

I bought one of those black painted Stanleys some years ago in a thrift store for $5.
Driving home, I wondered why I'd bought it, as I have so many other "nicer/prettier" (?) braces. Never bothered to do anything to it vosmetically, as it is used, but pretty decent condition.
I have to say this one has become an all purpose, knock about, take-it-with-me brace that gets used for any/ all rough condition working. Has fallen off the Workmate a dozen or so times, and still keeps on working dependably, every time!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Barry, i have another similar drill only with open ratchet (945 Stanley). It was the second brace drill I bought. They are both nice drills and seem quite heavy duty. I like the chucks especially. 









I found a place to store the 917 on the side of the bench. Several user drills stored there. : )


----------



## Mosquito

Another Otis A Smith tool, this time a washer/gasket maker. Also the adjustable countersink from before


----------



## Mosquito

Companion from the catalog


----------



## bandit571

Stand is done..









Been a long-assed day…


----------



## EricFai

Thanks BlasterStumps, I build the case / drawer to give them a nice home. There was a bunch if other bit in the lot, so I ended up with some multiples.


----------



## EricFai

Pretty good Bandit. All tools need a home in the shop. But it looks like a dryer next to it.


----------



## Mosquito

Uploaded a shorts video, but it's still a Pita to embed here…

So I'll link to it instead


----------



## HokieKen

Pretty slick Mos'.


----------



## bandit571

I share the basement with the Laundry Room…

Not a lot of room down there…









For a fat man like me to work in….when things stick out from the bench..


----------



## DanKrager

Bandit, That DP stand looks nice and sturdy. It wouldn't take much to fit it with a bunch of little drawers for drill bits and other accessories for the DP…. Little boxes. Your favorite?

DanK


----------



## rad457

Found a worker so don't get tempted to pull the shinny one from the box even came with set of spare bits!


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nice Andre. Those are handy little buggers.


----------



## RWE

I am old enough to have used one of those (similar one at least, Craftsman, not sure who made it). My father and I used it quite often to start nail or screw holes. Mid-to-late 60's time period.

Looks like you got two good ones. Congrats.


----------



## bandit571

Mine's a tad older….









Still has the Goodell Pratt Co. logo…..Toolsmiths

With all 8 bits….No. 185

The "other" logo was Mr. Punch carrying one of these around…..

I like this one better than the No. 188A….


----------



## Mosquito

Anyone have a use for a 1/2" auger that appears to have hit a nail, or otherwise hard foreign object?


----------



## EricFai

No, but I could use a #13. I think I have a few of the #8's


----------



## Mosquito

I recently got my set out again










Also have a boxed set of Jennings augers, but I've always preferred these Irwin style


----------



## theoldfart

It always amazes me how many different bits and accoutrements they had for braces. I even have what's called a Fore Auger. It's similar to a Hollow Auger Tenon maker but it makes the beveled tenons you se on stick furniture!


----------



## HokieKen

If nobody else needs it, hang onto it until whenever you have a package going my way Mos'. I'm not sure what I need it for but the threads look good so I can grind it for special purpose if/when one comes up.

For whatever reason, a brace is one of the few hand tools I haven't been able to fully embrace. Maybe I'm just too lazy. I have a couple but they rarely see any action. Maybe I just need to give my son my powered hand drills and tell him to hide them from me for a couple months so I don't have any choice but to give them a fair shake ;-)

I do have a Millers Falls Alford Hand Vise that's pretty neat. It has an attachment so it can be held in a brace either on the side or on the end and came with some bits that can be clamped in the vise and used a drill. Also came with a gasket cutter attachment.


----------



## Mosquito

Nice, that's a pretty neat contraption


----------



## KentInOttawa

> If nobody else needs it, hang onto it until whenever you have a package going my way Mos . I m not sure what I need it for but the threads look good so I can grind it for special purpose if/when one comes up.
> 
> For whatever reason, a brace is one of the few hand tools I haven t been able to fully embrace. Maybe I m just too lazy. I have a couple but they rarely see any action. Maybe I just need to give my son my powered hand drills and tell him to hide them from me for a couple months so I don t have any choice but to give them a fair shake ;-)
> 
> I do have a Millers Falls Alford Hand Vise that s pretty neat. It has an attachment so it can be held in a brace either on the side or on the end and came with some bits that can be clamped in the vise and used a drill. Also came with a gasket cutter attachment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


I can really relate to not feeling the love for hand braces but beware, they will work their way into your life. What did it for me was boring dog holes. A sharp bit makes the task relatively low effort and quite enjoyable.

That hand vise looks like it would also clamp very nicely into a hand screw. Hmmmm? The gears are turning…


----------



## Bearcontrare

This kinda junky little drill was in my grandfather's cabinet shop. (Which is probably the ONLY reason I have it) I remember this hanging on the wall behind the workbench. There was a screw eye in the cap to hang it then. This is the ONLY tool in the shop I NEVER saw Pop-pop actually use. None of us boys ever used it either when we were young.
One day when I was about 7, I was in the shop, gently examining the hand tools on that wall. Pop-pop came in, took this drill down, showed me how the cap opens to store the bits, gave the crank a few turns to show me and hung it up again.
The only mark on it is "Japan". I've lubed it up with white grease and begun cleaning up the poor old thing.


----------



## Bearcontrare

P.S. At least this one has two bevel gears. The Stanley I bought new in 1982 only has one!


----------



## Mosquito

I'm on the hunt for some Otis A. Smith hand vises, should anyone come across any ;-)

And Kenny, you'd probably be happy to hear that my main set of braces are 5 Millers Falls 700 series Holdall's  (also looking for a 729 - 16" sweep)

The others are the 3 sizes of Yankee's, but one is a different vintage, so I've been keeping a lazy eye out for that as well.

Completionist syndrome is a thing…


----------



## BlasterStumps

I found another MF No 2 hand drill. Here is a picture of it with the other one I showed the other day that needs a cap on the handle.
I have been trying to date this drill and think possibly 1914 or thereabouts. The wood looks like rosewood or at least it is reddish looking wood. Anyone that knows these old drills have a better handle on how old it is? No side handle and someone put a modern screw in to hold the crank handle on.


----------



## HokieKen

The triangle trademark and Greenfield location put it post-1931 and if it is Rosewood and not stained "tropical hardwood" then it's pre-1935. So somewhere between 1931 and 1935.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Good eye. I misread the trademark part. Yeah, I would guess rosewood. I might fix this one up a little. I don't know what damage was done by the modern screw. Wished the guy hadn't done that.


----------



## Brit

> If nobody else needs it, hang onto it until whenever you have a package going my way Mos . I m not sure what I need it for but the threads look good so I can grind it for special purpose if/when one comes up.
> 
> For whatever reason, a brace is one of the few hand tools I haven t been able to fully embrace. Maybe I m just too lazy. I have a couple but they rarely see any action. Maybe I just need to give my son my powered hand drills and tell him to hide them from me for a couple months so I don t have any choice but to give them a fair shake ;-)
> 
> I do have a Millers Falls Alford Hand Vise that s pretty neat. It has an attachment so it can be held in a brace either on the side or on the end and came with some bits that can be clamped in the vise and used a drill. Also came with a gasket cutter attachment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - HokieKen


I've got one of those Kenny. It is a brilliant hand vise for holding small parts on a linisher or grinder.

I don't have all of the bits shown in the illustration you posted, but I don't really have a need for them either.


----------



## HokieKen

> Good eye. I misread the trademark part. Yeah, I would guess rosewood. I might fix this one up a little. I don t know what damage was done by the modern screw. Wished the guy hadn t done that.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


I don't recall what size threads those are Mike but I have some spare MF eggbeater parts at home. I'll check tonight to see if I have one of those screws.


----------



## HokieKen

> I ve got one of those Kenny. It is a brilliant hand vise for holding small parts on a linisher or grinder.
> 
> I don t have all of the bits shown in the illustration you posted, but I don t really have a need for them either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Brit


Same Andy. I have all of the bits but since I cleaned everything when I first got it, they haven't left the handle. I sometimes wish mine hadn't come with the auger shank so I wouldn't feel compelled to keep up with it ;-) I tend to use this on for working on small parts with hand tools or files because the handle is comfortable. I tend to grab others for working on grinders though because I fear inadvertently damaging this one.

It seems to me that I may have some extra bits that originated from this tool but that I found in the handle of one of the MF multi-tools. I'll try to look tonight. If I do have them and you're interested in them you're welcome to them if they're worth the cost of shipping across the pond.


----------



## Brit

Thanks Kenny, but there not worth the postage to me. I would never use this as a screwdriver and I've never cut a washer in my life and don't intend to start now.  As a hand clamp though, highly recommended.


----------



## HokieKen

Really? You've come up with a more efficient ways to drive screws? ;-) I have cut the occasional gasket but I agree, this will never get the call for such jobs.


----------



## DLK

Arggggg….. now I have to get a MF hand vise.


----------



## MikeB_UK

I didn't even know Leytool made a 2 speed breast drill.
It's bigger than I thought it was going to be


----------



## drsurfrat

Whoa.


----------



## bandit571

$5+Tax, today…









Out of $27 Total… Samson chuck, 10" P.S. & W. Co. No. 1202









Best looking of the 6 braces I looked at, today..


----------



## CFrye

Earned your name on that deal Bandit!


----------



## EricFai

Good score Bandit.


----------



## DanKrager

Found this strange beast in the wild today in northern Alabama. I've never seen anything quite like it. I couldn't see any name stamp or markings. The breast stem does not line up with the drill axis. What's with that? I don't think it was bent, but possible. The chuck has no jaws, just a tapered square hole and a set screw that firmly held a bit from nearby. Almost bought it just for the novelty, but I'm not a collector. Ahem. Also found a barely used Stanley 12" brace with sketchy nickel plate, but I've never seen brace jaws work so smoothly and accurately. Stiff from lack of use, but otherwise perfect for me. $32 …no bargain but close to fair.



















DanK


----------



## DanKrager

Well, sometimes planning works. Dry fit shop furniture.



















DanK


----------



## EricFai

Looking pretty good there.

This was my idea of organizing


----------



## BlasterStumps

Dan, take another look at the breast plate on that strange tool. Looks to me like there is some raised lettering there on the underside.


----------



## controlfreak

> Looking pretty good there.
> 
> This was my idea of organizing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Eric


Looks great Eric, are those side in drawers?


----------



## EricFai

CF, Yes they are, neededca cabinet with drawers. I have built some, filling it half way. Still need to build some more and put sides on the carcus.










Air tools, brace an bits, chisels, and lathe tools so far. Breadboard top.


----------



## DanKrager

Blaster, YOU"RE RIGHT. Never saw that writing until you said to look for it. I can zoom my originals and find:
*GEM MFG CO. PAT PEND XXXXXXFIELD OHIO.* 
Does that mean anything to anyone here?

DanK


----------



## BlasterStumps

Dan, I think they made mitre boxes but maybe that isn't even the same manufacturer. One thing about that tool you had the picture of is that it looks like it is nearly 1:1 ratio on the gears. Maybe for stirring paint? Or, twisting line or cord?


----------



## bandit571

They also made Freezer Units…


----------



## bandit571

While out & about, this morning..









3" Irwin Expansive bit ($2), and a fifty cent countersink bit..among a few other goodies..


----------



## bandit571

Ok…cleaned the expansive bit up…..id is now a Clark…Unsure as yet on the countersink bit

The "Yankee" screwdriver is a Millers Falls No. 61A


----------



## EricFai

I'll have to check my "Yankee" screwdriver when I return home.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'm not sure what to make of this drill that I picked this morning. Can't seem to pin the approx date of manufacture of it. I know they made the concealed ratchet for some years but haven't found a 16" sweep either.



















It's going to take some work.


----------



## bandit571

Countersink works!









I guess, IF I really wanted to sharpen it up better..









I can take that screw out, rotate the 2 halves, and sharpen them up…Will be leaving the bit in this drill, for now.

This needed to be taken apart
,








All the rust cleaned out. And the wide cutter was….dull. Sharpened that spot up. Not the cutting spurs, just yet.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I found an old Stanley catalog that is somewhere around 1912 or some later. It does show the 901-16 brace drill. So now I know. : ). Looked like going thru the drills of that period in that catalog that it might be one of the more expensive ones sold.


----------



## theoldfart

16" sweeps are not easy to find. They can generate a lot of torque,


----------



## Mosquito

16" Millers Falls Holdall is still on my list to find…


----------



## BlasterStumps

I wasn't sure I was going to be able to save the 901 drill because of how bad the ratchet collar was seized. It took me a little bit to get the chuck shell off because it was also seized some and packed full of leaf cutter deposit. I worked for quite a while to get the collar to move but finally got it off. Worst mess I have ever found with a brace drill. Oh well, didn't give a lot for it. Now that I have the chuck clean and working I will clean up the rest of the drill and work on the wood to give it some more usable life.


----------



## EricFai

Found these digging through a barrel at a flea market. Have to take them home clean up a little and sharpen.










And 2 Miller Falls hand planes, #11, #14C


----------



## DevinT

YES! Old Sneelock came through and made a video on the chain drill

I had never seen anyone demonstrate it so I was having a really hard time understanding how this bit brace attachment was used. Wunderbar!

Are there any other uses anyone can think of beside drilling pipe?


----------



## EricFai

An extremely hard dowel.


----------



## bandit571

Posts in Post & Beam projects…..timber framing…..Drilling into beams above your head….


----------



## DevinT

Ooo nice! Had not thought of those use-cases.


----------



## KentInOttawa

I picked up one of the Goodell-Pratt automatic feed chain drills a while ago. I tried it out, once, and I won't be doing that to myself again anytime soon. Getting everything lined up to start the operation required more hands and dexterity than I have available at any one time. Once it got going it fed nicely enough, though.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Got the Stanley 901-16 brace cleaned and put back together. Here it is with an 811-10:








The before picture was shown on 4-21 I believe.

Now I am on to cleaning up a North Bros 555 breast drill.


----------



## EricFai

Those are looking nice Mike


----------



## BlasterStumps

the North Bros 555. Gave it a bit of a clean and lube.


----------



## theoldfart

Mike, that's one of my favorite drills along with the 1555. Nice job on the restore.


----------



## EricFai

That looks very nice, bet it is wonderful to use.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Kevin. It was the only one of the line up that I did not have. I have been keeping an eye out for one for a while now. the other day we were in a small antique shop in a neighboring town and I found it nearly hidden in a corner partial buried by other items. I think I saw part of the handle so I investigated further. After checking the teeth on the gears, trying the selector and the chuck, and saw that it all looked okay, I bought it. I might have to put them all together and do a family photo now. : )


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here's the gang. 1555, 555, 1545, & 1530A


----------



## bandit571

All I have for a breast drill..









Goodell Pratt Co. No. 0477….

As for the rest of the user brigade..









And a door to the right…









About half Stanleys, and half M-f/GP…..


----------



## Mosquito

Any one happen to have a spare set of chuck jaws for a hand drill? I've got a drill that's missing the jaws (and their springs)


----------



## bandit571

Eggbeater, or, brace?


----------



## Mosquito

Eggbeater. I robbed a Millers Falls brace for the jaws, but wouldn't mind having both functional if I could get away with it.


----------



## bandit571

I'll look into the "Spares" box, tomorrow…and let ya know…


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Bandit


----------



## bandit571

PM an address to mail them to…and I'll send them out, tomorrow…


----------



## bandit571

Have found 2 chucks..where do I send them to?


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks Bandit, just replied to your PM. I'm in no huge rush, so don't worry about trying to go out of your way to get to the post office in a hurry or anything


----------



## bandit571

Box with 2 chucks have been mailed out, this morning….should be there by Friday…


----------



## bandit571

Box has been delivered as of today…


----------



## KentInOttawa

How do you resharpen countersink bits like these? Mine all feel like they're abusing the wood into shape instead of cutting it as they should. Does someone have a link or a reference?


----------



## EricFai

No reference, but I'll be watching.


----------



## DanKrager

I have a preference for single flute cutters for countersinking in wood. They are easier to keep keenly sharp like they need to be for slicing wood. In my shop, these multiple flute shallow cutting relief countersinks are reserved for metal. The rake and relief angles are quite different to address the different cutting actions.

I've sharpened these multiple flute items effectively, but some special equipment is useful for an accurate job.  Several steps are involved.
1. Spin the countersink lightly against an abrasive to remove nicks and restore the proper taper. This is equivalent to running a file over saw teeth to assure uniform height.
2. Regrind the trailing relief angle to the original angles. This gets real tricky because the angle at the perimeter needs to be different than the angle at the point for optimal performance. In practice, it seems to be the case that the angle needed at the point is used all the way to the circumference and the back bevel may be tapered to compensate. A cup wheel on a tool grinder is preferred for repeatable accuracy.
3. The gullet will almost certainly need attention near the point. So another pass or two at the cup wheel will relieve some chip clearance at the point. Because everything is very close, this gets very detailed.
4. A diamond cup wheel will hold its shape longer,, but tends to clog when grinding steel, even hardened steel. So a fine grit white wheel is preferred but will need frequent dressing which messes with delicate adjustments.

Good luck.

DanK


----------



## KentInOttawa

Thanks Dan. I was afraid that the answer would translate to something like: "Not with the tools you have". I guess that I was right. ;-)


----------



## drsurfrat

I just honed the large face bevel with a fine slip stone and called it good. There is an edge that will at least cut instead of mash. I put the bit in a vise so I could get some pressure, then made sure that the edge was shiny.


----------



## DanKrager

Kent, you've got nothing to lose if you want to try filing it by hand. Assuming your cutter is not hardened to the point of "not today" with a file, you can work along drsufrat's line of effort. Your cutters look to me beyond stoning, but a good file might make it work.

Basically the same process. Spin the cutter very lightly against an abrasive to set the uniform cutting edge removing nicks etc. With the cutter secured firmly, file the back bevel to the leading edge. Finally a few passes through the gullet to open up the point gullets again. If you don't chamfer tiny holes, then the point isn't that important.

With magnifiers and careful file handling, you could, with patience, get a working piece even if not perfect.

It's almost not worth the effort.

After using one of these, you'll never look back.

DanK


----------



## bandit571

Or…









and…









Works nice..









And..it is easy to sharpen, too…


----------



## EricFai

I should have bought the one I saw a few weeks ago.


----------



## KentInOttawa

The photo I showed earlier isn't one of mine, although I do have a couple in the tool chest somewhere that do need sharpening. I don't do a lot of countersinking, and the bit that is semi-permanently chucked in my 8" brace does the trick even if it isn't all that impressive.










I find that for many things brace and drill-related, I can buy a bunch of items in a lot and get what I want from it for about the same price as if I bought everything a la carte. That does mean that I have some duplicates and some holes, not to mention a number of items that I don't have a use for (yet), like taper reamers. It also means that I have some real garbage kicking around, too.


----------



## DanKrager

Kent, if you want show off your taper reamers. I could help finance their replacements….

DanK


----------



## bandit571

In use, yesterday..









And results, too..









Pilot holes, and then countersinks….


----------



## bandit571

yard sale find, this morning..









Brace was a $1…3 bits totaled $0.75

Brace is a Stanley No.8…..ORD DEPT USA. packing grease still on the threads…Irwin #6. Morse 1/2" and 5/16"

not too bad of a morning…


----------



## MikeB_UK

New toy - including delivery £55

Bradson No. 1 Pillar Drill

Should make getting the hole correct in tool handles a lot easier.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Ooh! That's a pretty, Mike! Looks mechanically sound from here.


----------



## MikeB_UK

Yeah, runs really smooth.

Gonna need to make a home for it before I can have a propper play, that wheel makes it heavy on the right, so it'll need bolting down - more to do on the shop rebuild (which is taking a long time, considering how small a space I've got)


----------



## bandit571

This $0.50 Brace came home with me…









Mohawk ( Millers Falls) No. 262?









Does not use a ring shifter…









Just a pair of kick out prawls…Hardwood head and wrist handle…10" sweep….

Might have a few bits to use with it..









Since they are all cleaned up, now….


----------



## CFrye

What did you use to clean the bits Bandit? They look new!


----------



## bandit571

The Olde Grinder..









With a Brass wire wheel. The cloth wheel was used on the shanks…


----------



## bandit571

I just gave a couple of the Irwin bits a try out…..with the Mohawk 262 brace…the lone #6 bit…did NOT have any spurs ( tossed it out), and the first #7 worked like a charm….it will stay in the brace, for now. The twist drill bit is a 7/16"...might come in handy?


----------



## donwilwol

https://amzn.to/3NTDVzP










A preview on Timetestedtools


----------



## Bearcontrare

Oohhh Mike! That is one VERY nice addition to your shop. I have a special fondness for drill presses/pillar drills. Yours looks terrific!!!


----------



## HokieKen

Looking for some feedback from anyone who knows about old pillar drills. This Millers Falls 207 looks like a really good deal to me. As far as I can tell, it's complete other than the crank handle. Anyone see anything else obviously absent? I watch Millers Falls stuff on Ebay regularly and while I don't know much about these pillar drills, I know they typically bring much higher prices. Then again, I don't recall ever seeing this particular model so maybe it's just a lot smaller than others? Any advice on the tool itself or the price is appreciated!

I do NOT need a pillar drill. But, I do like me some Millers Falls stuff so I could probably find a spot in the shop and a use for it… I'll also add, if one you fellas swoops in and buys it, it won't hurt my feelings ;-) It'll save me the angst of figuring out whether I want it or not ;-)


----------



## bandit571

Came home with me…can I keep it?









Need to id this thing…









Has a keeper, too.









And that HUGE top handle…









Millers Falls/ Goodell Pratt Co. ?


----------



## bandit571

Might be a Goodell Pratt Co. No. 5-1/2 B ?


----------



## DevinT

My dad brought up another one of Grandpa's tools. Another hand brace. This one had the name "Merit" on it. Have to take some pictures next time I am in the shop


----------



## donwilwol

Merit was a line sold by Sears


----------



## DevinT

Cool! Thank you very much for that info, *DonW*. From the looks of it, Grandpa shellacked the thing. Photos tomorrow.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I'm thinking this drill might be a MF 105 from around 1917. Looks like it is in good shape still but does need a clean. Cocobolo head and knob. Black enameled frame and drive gear. equalizer bearing on upper part of frame. No MF logo of any type that I have found and nothing at all on the crank handle. It does have "Millers Falls - Millers Falls Massachusetts" and a patent number on the chuck. Chuck appears to be a spring-type 3-jaw. It has a couple bits in the handle but not the correct type. I might get busy on it. I want to see how it looks cleaned up and how it runs. : )


----------



## HokieKen

That looks right to me Mike. Nice find. It should have a trademark on the crank but even if not, I'd bet my last dollar it's a MF. I don't know of any other manufacturers that used the "little railroad car" wheel opposite the drive gear.


----------



## Mosquito

Looks a lot like a Keen Kutter drill I picked up not too long ago too, but I think mine was made by Goodell-Pratt. Doesn't have the bearing like yours though, mine has a tab on the front of the crank gear over the drive gear, which seemed to be a common Goodell-Pratt thing.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I have looked it over a bit more and I do think it is Millers Falls 105 but, after messing with the chuck and moving the jaws, I am not so sure it is a spring type. If not a spring type chuck, about the only difference between this drill and the No 1 drill is the equalizer bearing, looks to me like. I kind of like the darn thing.


----------



## HokieKen

If the gear is black and the chuck is springless, it's probably an early model. Which would explain why there's no trademark on the crank. Good chance it dates to the 19th century.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I didn't take the chuck apart but could not see any spring or feel any spring on the action of the jaws. So I would say springless. I gave the drill a clean and some light oil. It works very nice. I am surprised at how smoothly it operates. The speed seems a little slower than my Goodell-Pratt 379. I like it however and may have to hang it on my tool board next to the 379. What to do, what to do? Should I leave it with it's patina including the compulsory paint spatters or, should I refurb it. Nah, I think I will leave as is.

Wished I could view a tool catalog from around that time period Kenny. That would be cool to pinpoint the age some more. The online resource I was looking at only showed them as far back as 1914.


----------



## theoldfart

Mike, I have an MF star1









Looks a lot like yours.

Ken, I don't think that this is the rail car wheel, the one I have has something different. The tension wheel looks just like a car wheel and it moves freely on the edge of the gear. I'll try and get a pic Monday since it's in a railroad car right now at the museum

Edit, found it. MF 2.

!


----------



## HokieKen

Your right Kev. I didn't look closely at Mike's.

Mike, I think I have a MF catalog from early 20th century. I'll see if I can dig it up for you.


----------



## HokieKen

Here is the listing for the #1 from the 1904 Pocket Catalog Mike:









If you want the whole catalog, PM me your email and I'll send itnover this weekend.


----------



## BlasterStumps

tof, that 1 sure looks nice. I might have to rethink about sprucing up the one I have.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Kenny. I enjoyed seeing that page.

The equalizer bearing on this 105 is a bearing surface not a roller type bearing. Here are a couple pictures of it. I would actually want to describe it as an adjustable threaded stud that is there to stabilize the part of the drive gear that is opposite the pinion gear so it can't rock when the crank is being turned. It rides in a flat part of the drive gear.


----------



## DevinT

My Dad gave me sh!t about how I took the chuck apart on his father's small hand brace and the spring flew across the garage never to be found (6 months ago).

I looked him dead in the eye and said, "Dad, (long pause)It's a spring. If it bother you that much, bring it up here and we'll machine a new one. It's just a metal part, it's not the tool, which is not broken."


----------



## BlasterStumps

Wish I had a spring like the one that went flying across the shop, I would send it to you to give to him. Might be a bit of a bugger to make a copy. Sorry it flew off. I've been there, done that several times. Been down on my knees on the floor looking thru everything for long periods of time only to come up empty handed most times. What drill/chuck is it?


----------



## bandit571

Chucks tended to use two types of springs….ones that looked like they came out of a Cricket/BIC lighter….or were simply a length of spring wire bent into an L shape…

Sometimes, an old "Ball Point Pen" had a spring that could be used. The ones where you clicked the top end to click the pen's tip into place.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Chucks tended to use two types of springs….ones that looked like they came out of a Cricket/BIC lighter….or were simply a length of spring wire bent into an L shape…
> 
> Sometimes, an old "Ball Point Pen" had a spring that could be used. The ones where you clicked the top end to click the pen s tip into place.
> 
> - bandit571


No matter how hard I looked, I couldn't find a pen spring that would fit my chuck jaws when I needed them. After some research, I just made my own small coil springs for my eggbeater's 3-jaw chuck using a similar technique to this one. I just used a cordless electric drill held steady in the bench vise. You just need to find a twist drill bit that is slightly smaller than the diameter of the spring that you want to make. Chuck the bit in backwards (smooth shaft end out) and away you go.










I just used a piece of an old B string that was rescued from a guitar player who had already replaced this set. It works like a charm.


----------



## DevinT

I'll ask him to get the details on the brace I messed up.

It obviously made him upset.


----------



## HokieKen

If you can identify the spring diameter and shape, I may have a spare Devin. If not, I may have spring wire I can bend you one from.

If you can get the diameter of the wire and have one to copy, just order some Music Wire the proper diameter. A pair of needle noses and a modicum of patience is all that's required to make a new one.


----------



## DevinT

Got my dad to send over pics. The 3 points in the chuck are just rattling around loose :'( and it was my fault, and I feel horrible for breaking grandpa's hand drill (upset Daddy). If I can pull through with a fix I can get back in good graces.


----------



## DevinT

Worst case scenario, if I can identify the make/model, I will go on the hunt


----------



## DevinT

I have never seen that style of knurling on the chuck before. Makes me think Great Grandpa brought it over from Europe. The fact that I cannot identify the make/model is starting to worry me


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Got my dad to send over pics. The 3 points in the chuck are just rattling around loose :'( and it was my fault, and I feel horrible for breaking grandpa's hand drill (upset Daddy). If I can pull through with a fix I can get back in good graces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - DevinT


So the 3 jaws are loose inside because the springs are missing. It really is an easy fix; just a little fiddly. I did the "hard" part (winding the spring) for an eggbeater drill that I have this morning. It took about 20 minutes including photos and clearing the bench to work.

Dismantle the chuck.










Find a drill bit that fits LOOSELY in the holes because the spring WILL unwind a bit once it is removed from the bit. This bit is actually too tight. I wound up (pardon the pun) redoing it with a 1/16" bit.










Wrap the end of some small spring wire (I used a guitar B-string [2nd string] for this demo but previous attempts used a 1st string) around the bit and chuck it in a cordless drill or drill press. I just used a cordless snugged into a bench vise. Don't do this freehand or handheld; you will need both of your hands free for trigger and tension control.










Run the drill as slowly as you can. Maintain tension on the wire and wear gloves. If you hold the wire about 90 degrees to the bit it will be as tight as I've shown here. Smaller angles and even slower speeds will make a longer spring with looser winds. You can even overlap the wires as you wind the spring, but that works best for tension springs and we're making compression springs here.

Notice the direction of the wind in this photo. I wound the spring with the drill in reverse because I found it easier to maintain tension by holding the wire lower than if I had run the drill in the forward direction.










Cut the spring to length. Make them long and then shorten them a bit at a time. Don't sweat trimming too much off because a little bit of a tug and you can stretch them back to a usable length.










Get the drill and some used guitar strings and have at 'er.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Wow Kent. Very nicely presented. That's some good stuff there. I will bet that Devin will be back in Daddy's good graces in short order if she can round up some string. Very nice.


----------



## DevinT

Got the guitar string but Dad wants to try a ballpoint pen spring first.

Dad lives hundreds of miles away. But, in earnest, I picked up this hand drill on eBay today.

For some reason I think the fully enclosed crank case will operate more smoothly than the open geared egg beaters. We'll find out. Might need to throw some oil in it. Looks to be in good condition.

I passed on the info to my Dad and if he can't fix it I will either drive down to pick it up or have him mail it. I have my fingers crossed. I linked him to this thread.


----------



## DevinT

By the way, really ingenious I have to say. I kinda want to break the one I just bought to fix it using that technique. You are a God send (and I curse the design of these 3-jaw chucks; nothing like the stout 2-jaw chucks of braces)


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Got the guitar string but Dad wants to try a ballpoint pen spring first.


That's what I thought at first, too. Since then I've discovered that the old-school click-pens aren't as common or cheap as they used to be. I did find a couple, literally two, springs to try. They were both different sizes, neither was big enough to cut into the needed three springs, and both were too large in diameter for the jaws that I had.

My next trick was to pick up a more modern, el-cheapo, knock-ff drill and just rob the springs from it. That would have been a good $5 investment if only the springs had fit. Adding insult to injury, the threads on the chuck were different so I couldn't even just swap out the chucks. Then, just to kick me when I was down, I lost one of the pieces for the chuck. Rather than have it kick around the shop and aggravate me until I die, I removed the wooden parts and put the rest in the metal recycling bucket. See ya!

I strongly suspect that you will eventually get the chance to try this technique to make replacement springs for your grandfather's drill.


----------



## bandit571

Also..there is a spring under the flint in the Cricket/Bic disposable lighters….Save the flints for the Zippo lighters ( I used to, they worked better than the Zippo brand flints)


----------



## Lazyman

Easy enough to make but I have an assortment of springs in the shop I think that I picked up at HD for various projects and repairs. You will find many different variety packs on the Zon. Since my guitar is a classical, I also have an assortment of music wire I found at a nearby mom & pop hardware store and make springs when my stash doesn't fit the need.


----------



## DevinT

I just have to say, this thread just reached a whole new level of awesome for me. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever think of making my own springs. I don't know why I thought there was some magic voodoo involved in spring making. It's literally just a function of stress-vs-strain in forming metal.


----------



## Lazyman

We didn't say there wasn't voodoo involved.


----------



## bandit571

Eye candy. 









And flip over..









Stanley vs Millers Falls?


----------



## bandit571

There is one task a 3 jaw eggbeater is very good at..









Is holding very small drill bits securely…









Goodell Pratt Co. No. 329


----------



## DevinT

HALP! We can't figure out how to separate the chuck body from the thread insert. Most drills have 2 holes for a pin wrench or two spots for a spanner wrench or flat sides for an adjustable wrench. This drill has none of that, just knurling for … your *fingers*?! What, is this thing designed for Thor?

Dad says manufactured in Spain.




























Right now it's got a shot of PB blaster and maybe it can be turned by hand tomorrow?

So confused by this chuck


----------



## bandit571

Try it in a vise, the part you do not want to move, then GENTLY tap a flat bladed screwdriver into the "teeth" part. A few whacks (GENTLY!) to start the inner part moving…..


----------



## Lazyman

If you can find 2 nuts of the same thread as the drill (or better a bolt and nuts of the same thread), maybe you can crank the nuts against it as a jam nut to allow you to hold center still while you turn the outside?


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Try it in a vise, the part you do not want to move, then GENTLY tap a flat bladed screwdriver into the "teeth" part. A few whacks (GENTLY!) to start the inner part moving…..
> 
> - bandit571


I was thinking of fabricating a crude pin wrench out of wood and some screws, but I think Bandit's solution should be tried first. If that fails, it could also be used with a pin wrench. Either way, moderate pressure to compress the two ends of the chuck together and gentle rotational force is called for.










We know how it goes together. It's how it comes apart that is slowing us down.


----------



## bandit571

No holes for a pin wrench spanner…..unless someone drills them


----------



## KentInOttawa

> No holes for a pin wrench spanner…..unless someone drills them
> 
> - bandit571


Nope. But if the pins were gently rounded, they sure would fit nicely in the undulations around the rim. With some imagination, I can see it working.


----------



## DevinT

I keep looking at those teeth thinking that either they are knurling for fingers or some specialize tool that was used.

I like the idea of a jam nut if we can determine the thread pitch. I am thinking metric since it is from Spain.

The other thing I think of is using the Shaper Origin to notch a complementary pattern into something sturdy that can then be used to provide multiple points of contact. I probably wouldn't even need to grip every tooth, probably just 6. The thought had also occurred to me that maybe an oversized spline drive socket could grip enough of the teeth from the outside (they seem to protrude a bit).

Could it really be that simple? That it was designed to be opened with a spline?


----------



## DevinT

As previously promised, the Merit (next to a Millers Falls)


----------



## DevinT

Not sure if they were Grandpa's or Great Grandpa's. The Merit feels buttery smooth in the hand and has a shellacked appearance on both the handle and palm rest.


----------



## KentInOttawa

Devin,
Scott Bennett is an LJ who has a youtube channel on furniture repair. He has a video describing how to easily identify finishes and repair them. I've watched a number of his videos and have been impressed. I constantly find myself searching for this video on finishes because he describes them so well and because my poor little brain remembers what he says about them so poorly (I wish that I had more say in what I can and cannot remember).

If you're thinking of touching up the furniture on either of those braces (or doing any other sort of refinish work really), I think that you'll find this video worth the time and effort.


----------



## robscastle

I would be hiding my watches and clocks!


----------



## bandit571

Now another type of question..









Box had no manual…









It says it is for sharpening drill bits….does this mount onto a bench grinder? Or, just the bench the grinder sits on?

Hmmm…


----------



## Lazyman




----------



## bandit571

And to think..mine says "Made in Taiwan" Hmmmm


----------



## HokieKen

I have a Craftsman-branded one too. It actually works quite well. I use it to sharpen twist bits on the side of the wheel.


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Now another type of question..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Box had no manual…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It says it is for sharpening drill bits….does this mount onto a bench grinder? Or, just the bench the grinder sits on?
> 
> Hmmm…
> 
> - bandit571


Watch about a minute of this video (from 2:02 or so) and you'll see pretty much everything you need to know.

I had one in much worse shape and attempted to restore it. It was before I knew of all the things that I shouldn't do, so I started with all of those techniques first (vinegar, yum), and it got worse from there. Then I bought an assortment of several hundred titanium drill bits AND discovered that General still sells these jigs new. After that, I didn't feel bad about recycling the one that I really botched up.


----------



## DevinT

Now THAT is super cool. I might have to get me one of those. Way cooler than doing that by hand (which I have done)


----------



## DanKrager

Bandit, that's one handy little drill sharpening jig. I've owned two and modified one for extra long bits just by replacing the square shaft with a much longer one.

It mounts on any horizontal plane near a flat grinding wheel (cup type). The side of a standard wheel is often shown, and since the cuts are very light, one can get away with that. But when mounting, pay attention to the orientation of the base. The swivel is not vertical and is leaning so the long side of the base needs to be quite perpendicular to the grinding surface. Then it's trivial to get a better than factory grind.

The weak part of the jig is the locating finger. It's finicky to get it positioned just right and then to catch the bit spiral on it consistently.

DanK


----------



## rad457

Looking for a 1/16" bit for my MF #100, fell off the table an snapped it too short to use anymore!
Looked at E-bay but not going to pay $100 + ! 
Guess that will teach me to actually use an old tool with hard to replace parts


----------



## bandit571

Millers Falls #185A has the same chuck…so…keep an eyeball out for that model….I will look at my 185A and see what sizes it has in the handle…


----------



## bandit571

Ok, a quick check of the spot my grinder sits at….on the left side (Fine wheel) there is no shelf….will have to add a bit to the end of the existing shelf…and drill that for a retaining bolt (Carriage Bolt, washer, thumb )..and also remove the cover over that wheel..hmmmm..do-able..


----------



## bandit571

I just checked the Millers Falls 188A…no 1/16" bit….however…my Goodell Pratt Co. #185 does indeed have that sized bit…both push drills have the same chuck as the #100…and my #100 currently has a 5/64" bit in it's chuck..


----------



## bandit571

How a look?









L to R: #100, #185, #188A








And the chucks..all take the same style "drill points" 









Each set up with a different sized bit…

There is also a Millers Falls No. 170 in the tool chest..but it uses a different chuck..more like a North Bros. style bit.


----------



## EricFai

Sweet Bandit.


----------



## bandit571

And..that Millers Falls No. 170…









You'd unscrew that metal cap…and find slots for 4 more bits. 









And, IF you'd push the knurled collar forward, it un-locks the North Bros. style bit.

Same age as the #100…more of a secondary line.


----------



## rad457

The MF #100 chuck is different from the MF # 185A, My MF #188 appears to have same chuck as the 
MF #100 but of course mine has no bits? LOL! 
Have 2 MF #185s 1 for show an 1 for working, and a complete spare set of bits, they have the notch on the bottom.


----------



## bandit571

The only thing different..is the collar on the chuck….still the same on the inside of both chucks ( I just looked, BTW)

In fact, before those photos were taken…I had switched out the bits between the #100, and the #185….The 188A is the same as the #185.

Didn't Punch carry a 185 as part of the Goodell Pratt Co. Logos?


----------



## ac0rn

Andre, Is 1/16th the only size you need? New, or Old, or both? send a pm


----------



## rad457

Thanks for the offer Jeff but I am looking for the fluted bits as shown in the 1st Pic, I have a spare set of the notched #185A bits.
My #100 and #188 have the same chuck 4 jaw and the bits for the #100 are fluted.








Where as the #185A I have has a chuck with the collar that has to be pushed back to insert the notched bit with a tab on the end, guess you could use it in the #100 or #188 chucks?


----------



## DevinT

Stanley No 611. Don't know how old but some fool was giving it away for $25 on FleaBay. I love the enclosed crank case. Fully functional.


----------



## DevinT

Hit send prematurely …


----------



## bandit571

Should have let me know…..I have that same drill hanging in my Tool Cabinet…except mine is the No. 610…
Mine has a few gold letters embossed into the top handle..

"100 PLUS"

Nice little drill…










and..









Mine isn't quite as "Minty", though.









And a little fuzzy camera work doesn't help…









Not sure what the difference is between a No. 610, and a No. 611….


----------



## DevinT

Mine has the same 100 plus and I think that makes it an "anniversary edition" celebrating Stanley's 100+ years of making tools. I will have to consult my big book of Stanley for more info on potential era that it came out of. I too have no idea of 610 vs 611


----------



## DevinT

Ok, I found out where the drill comes from. It was manufactured from 1950 to 1973. Only two models were offered, No 610 and No 611, in the premium "100 PLUS" series. The No 610 is 12 inches with a 1/4 inch chuck and 2 5/8" gear wheel, is the smaller of the two models. Now I will have to measure my 611. The 1950 catalogue says about these special hand drills:



> Enclosed Gear - Cast Iron Speed Gear - Protected Jaw Spring Chuck. This compact drill has a higher spindle torque for drilling in wood and metal, and for close-quarter work.
> 
> These [100 Plus] drills are the result of careful engineering development and offer the user smooth drilling performance with a minimum of effort.


----------



## DevinT

Designed to hand drill metal. *NICE*!!!


----------



## DevinT




----------



## DevinT

Do you see it? Looks like an extra inch between the gear wheel and chuck. I will have to do full measurements tomorrow.


----------



## bandit571

I had simply closed the chuck all the way down….Maybe the #612 was for 3/8" shanks? Much the same way as there are 2 Buck Rogers Eggbeater drills…No. 104 vs No.308?


----------



## bandit571

2 drills…who copied who?









Hmmm…both have 1/4" chucks…









Hmm,








Both are about the same age?


----------



## bandit571

Yard sale find, for $15…









E. C. Stearns & Co. of Syracuse N.Y.










Needs a good clean up…1/4" to 1-1/4"


----------



## DevinT

Oooo, tenoner?

Hey, look what just came in, with a note too! Thanks Dad! Love my Dad very much.


----------



## DevinT

Already having fun. So a quick inspection of the thing reveals that the head is aluminum while the jaws are steel.

I can use scotch tape and string magnets to hold move the jaws around and I have already used this truck to flip 2 jaws and orient a third then drop all of them down to the center get them all against the wall. Now I can try to figure out how I am going to get some springs in there (I think this thing was pressed together with an arbor and there is no way short of hitting it with a torch that it's going to open. So, surgery it is.


----------



## DevinT

Starting to look like something out SciFi


----------



## DevinT

Yeah, I think this will absolutely work. Using the magnets, I can keep 2 out of the way while I work on a third. I can tilt the jaw just enough to get access to install a spring. Now I just need to make some springs


----------



## bandit571

Dr. Who's "friend"...


----------



## DevinT

Top view; tilted and untitled. I think I should be able to operate on it without removing the jaws. The confined space might actually help


----------



## HokieKen

Exterminate! Exterminate!


----------



## bandit571

E.C. Stearns & Co. has been cleaned up..









Cutter has been sharpened…









Depth stop has been freed up, cleaned up..and you can even read the depth scale it rides along..









Would like to get a new bolt for the depth stop…it is pretty beat up…










There is also a scale to show what diameter the setting is for…..


----------



## theoldfart

That tenon auger looks a lot like the AA Woods design.


----------



## bandit571

Might have a brace to turn it with…









Is able to hold that 1/2" shank fairly well..









So..who used pewter rings?









Any clues?


----------



## MikeB_UK

You got yourself a Spofford brace there Bandit?
Well, Fray & Co at least - I think all the Spoffords had clamshell grips.


----------



## Mosquito

Reassembly night tonight. Appears to be a Goodell-Pratt but more likely Millers Falls made No. 7 branded for Keen Kutter (naturally).


----------



## bandit571

Looking good!


----------



## Mosquito

Thanks bandit, first best drill I've owned. Sort of restored it on a whim lol. I'm not sure what I'll use it for, but I'm assuming I could use it just like my Holdall braces, as they have the same jaws. That is to say, pretty much anything forster bit or hex shank related


----------



## Brit

Good luck Devin. I'm interested to see how you get on.


----------



## HokieKen

Nice Mos!


----------



## DevinT

Thanks Brit. Next step is to pull out my spoils of guitar string and measure them. In one video a gentleman pointed out he used .017" diameter guitar string. I don't know how well the strings I have (that I use on my guitar) will work because they are "special" and not just a solid metal string. Might have to pick up some cheap wire to work with.


----------



## DevinT

I just had an interesting thought …

Bandit gets a tenon auger.

James Wright then does a video on tenon auger.

Bandit's bench and James bench look similar (I have not put them side by side, just a hunch)

… ^_^


----------



## DanKrager

You've seen the top of Bandit's bench?

Wow!

DanK


----------



## bandit571

Sometimes..even I see the top of my bench…









Well..parts of it..








When I need a little room to work…








How about a Buck Rogers Brace…









Model No. 1950…


----------



## bandit571

Needed to add a shelf, today…to add a jig to the grinder..









So…now I can sharpen a few Twist drill bits…









Right after I watch a few more videos….

Just 2 pieces of 3/4" plywood, glued and screwed together. Carriage bolt, washer, and a wing nut…..had to remove the side plate on the grinder.


----------



## HokieKen

It's pretty simple with that jig Bandit. Just take even amounts off both sides and keep the tip centered.


----------



## Bearcontrare

Thank you guys for sharing information and photos about these drill bit sharpening gizmos. I've got one I received as a throw in with other tools, and wondered if it was any good.
So now I've got to get mine set up. I might, I say I might, have "a bit ot two" that needs sharpenin' there, Son…. (Sorry, it IS Saturday morning…..)


----------



## Lazyman

I picked up a Drill Doctor for $5 at a garage sale a couple of years ago. It works very well but I use so infrequently that I have to reread the instructions each time I use it.


----------



## donwilwol

sharpening drill bits by hand is eye is not very difficult. Just look at a sharp dill bit. Do one side at a time. The leading edge need to be the highest point. Just hold the angle and twist with slight pressure into the wheel. Make sure the center point is centered. The first one or two may take a couple tries, but then you'll be shaking your head wondering why you didn't try it years ago.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I found that a CCW turn of the wheel/stone/disc used to sharpen drill bits on works best. My setup is using a 1725 rpm motor mounted vertical with a 6" flat wheel on it. The wheel has 220 grit sanding disc on it. The smaller the bit, the less I rotate it each time I touch it to disc. Since my eyesight is not too good up close nowadays, I use a magnifier head band when doing small bits.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I been playing in the shop making storage for some planes and the drills that I want to have next to the bench. It took me quite a while to settle my mind on what I wanted and where to put it. I think I finally figured it out.


----------



## DevinT

I really like your hammer carousel


----------



## bandit571

Will give the jig a trial run, tomorrow….we'll see…


----------



## DevinT

Good luck, bandit!


----------



## bandit571

The drill bits…









VS the jig…









Hmmm, something wasn't quite right….will go and watch a couple videos, again…may have the angle set wrong,,,,swivel part is a bit loose. Try again, next week…


----------



## ToddJB

Bandit, send as many of those you got my way. I've got a lot of drawers to fill.










Came across this completely unnecessary, but super cool set of vintage Huot drill bit organizers the other day - unfortunately they were empty.

Fractional, Letter, Number, and Metric.

I'll clean it up one day, and start sorting my stash.


----------



## donwilwol

I'm continuing to clean out
SOLD


----------



## BlasterStumps

Picked this up today. Only one I have ever seen in the wild. Looks like might have been made about 1925, best I can figure out. Good shape, chuck seems good, shifts easy, works smooth, all good wood parts. As with the MF105 I found here a while back, I'm torn between leaving it as found or spiffing it up. Haven't gone crazy on the 105 yet so maybe won't fool with this one either. : )


----------



## HokieKen

That handle wood is unique Mike. Almost looks like burl. Nice find on the 2 speed 

Todd those are some nice Houts even if they look a little neglected. I don't know that I'd ever fill them with twist drills but I'd dang sure put them to good use!


----------



## bandit571

Handle looks familiar









And..
.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Bandit, the frame of yours is a little more ornate than this MF 980 is. That one you have is a GP right?


----------



## bandit571

Goodell Pratt Co. ....yep..I seem to always be picking that Brand name of drills…


----------



## donwilwol

A Goodell Pratt breast drill with original leather with the logo on the leather


----------



## bandit571

Mine is a G-P No. 5-1/2 B


----------



## BlasterStumps

here are a couple size comparison shots of the MF 980 up next to the MF 105 I found recently and also one of it up next to a North Bros 1545. The 980 and 1545 are almost the same size.


----------



## bandit571

The drill I use for pilot holes..









Is a G-P No. 329

In the til…there is a Millers Falls No. 2-01…..

I seem to prefer the Goodell Pratt drills, though…


----------



## Brit

Argh Blaster!!! Now I want a North Bros. 1545 to go with my 1530A. That thing is a beast.


----------



## Brit

When I saw Blaster's 980 I thought it looked familiar, so I went back to post #71 in this forum and found the photo I posted of my MF drills. Mine is the 1980 though, which is a ratcheting two speed. It is missing the wooden crank handle and instead someone has replaced it with a bit of brass tubing.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Nice looking 1980 Andy. I would imagine you could pick up a North Bros 1545 over there probably for less than £50. I have a second one but a previous owner drilled a hang hole in the handle. : (


----------



## Brit

I'll keep my eye out for one, not that I need it. LOL.


----------



## Bearcontrare

This long shanked 1 1/8" bit followed me home yesterday. This and a regular length #16. (The one that is always in short supply in my jumbles of odd bits.)
With a bit of difficulty, I bypassed several braces that were leading me into temptation…..


----------



## EricFai

Not a bad find. I haven't hit the flea market for a few months now.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Great find Barry. You will have fun fixing that one up. I did one a while back. It came out okay but I cut my hand on one of the cutting edges. I put the piece of wood on the screw so I don't do that again.


----------



## DevinT

That's one nice lookin' auger there. Excellent work.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Here is my $3 North Bros 41 that I found yesterday. I can only imagine that one of the reasons it was three dollars was that the person that had it could not get the bent bit out of it. I gave it a clean and now it is a very nice working 41 with a set of 8 drill points in it.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Devin. I think it came out okay but I have to admit that I wasn't too fond of it the day I sliced my hand open with one of the cutting edges. I learned something that day, not sure what. : )


----------



## Brit

Mike - That 41 was a steal at $3. I think that's the one I have, but I haven't used it in a while because it has been packed away. It will take it's place on my tool wall before too long and then I'll get to play with it more often.


----------



## Bearcontrare

Thanks, guys. An' I just "happen to have" a ratcheting auger handle and 24" extension.
I had some other long shank bits some years ago. It was claimed they got lost in a move, but I really think they found their way into my oldest brother's shop….

Anyway, I thought $2 was good for the long shank, and $1 for the #16 were pretty prices, so I just couldn't leave them there . (the horror! the horror!)


----------



## bandit571

Along with the 2 Dovetail saws….picked up a drill the other day


























Came out of this tray..
.








$0.50….only had one tip….same style as the North Bros. tips..


----------



## BlasterStumps

nice haul Bandit.


----------



## DevinT

Wow, I can't believe how well that worked - making my own springs from guitar wire and a drill.

Of course, I just had to pull out the duck bill pliers to boot, which worked amazingly for this task.

I made three springs of equal length that I showed to a friend that could not believe that I made them until I showed how. They look like store bought springs, for real.

Took a couple failed attempts to get the right size with right gauge wire, but I am impressed with this technique.

The saga continues, and now we are epoxying the springs into place so this never happens again.

Of course, I did not force the chick apart. Pretty sure it was press fit and is not coming apart. So surgery with tweezers it is. It's like playing Operation in reverse. You have to put the pieces back in, lol.


----------



## bandit571

And..I am sure cussing will be involved…


----------



## DevinT

So far no cussing. One down, two to go. The cussing will come on the last spring, for sure. But, one end of each spring is epoxied into a jaw, so, at least the cussing won't come from the spring flying across the shop never to be found (cough, which is what caused this fiasco in the first place)


----------



## DevinT

Spring 2 is into the epoxy. Got to make sure to always epoxy the spring into the left whole (nothing special about left, but if I do left on one and right on another, we will have two springs trying to occupy the same place and that won't be good; so just have to make sure to put them in the same hole on each jaw).










Ain't that a nice lookin' spring though?


----------



## KentInOttawa

> Ain't that a nice lookin' spring though?
> 
> - DevinT


Yup


----------



## DevinT

The final spring is being epoxied to the final jaw. Next comes internal assembly. Started ng to feel like a laparoscopic surgeon. Dad quipped "spring-loaded surgery?" and we both laughed.


----------



## DevinT

Muahahahahaha, I feel LIKE A NINJA! (zero cursing involved; pictures to come, after I update Dad)


----------



## DevinT

Dad is very proud. I asked if I should send it back now that I have repaired it, and he said it's all mine, nobody showed it more love than I did. Sweet!

Dad said it looked so good that he figured it was from the 60's but when I told him it matches ones from the 40's, he now thinks it was his grandfathers.

This is so awesome, potentially a 3 generation tool has been fixed and is ready for a 4th and when I pass it on to my child, a 5th!

I LOVE tools with history.

Oh, and it only took 5 minutes to connect the springs. No cursing involved. Bright lights, strong magnets, a clamp, an awl, and some tweezers. Bada-bing bada-boom.


----------



## bandit571

Looks GREAT!


----------



## DevinT

Thanks, *bandit*!


----------



## KentInOttawa

Way to go, Dr. Devin.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Nice work, Devin! Good as new.


----------



## EricFai

Well done repair Devin.


----------



## Bearcontrare

Great job! I've had to replace springs in brace jaws like that. (Filched from ball point pens) I know what a PITA it can be. 
And you have an heirloom tool back in service. Outstanding!!!


----------



## DanKrager

Very cleverly done, Devin.

Persistence is a key factor to success! You're on a roll….

Don't bother now, but if you look briefly in the general area of the wayward spring, it will allow you to discover it.

DanK


----------



## theoldfart

Started a big restoration job. A Millers Falls boring machine that has had a hard life. Mostly disassemble work now.



















Like I said, a hard life!


----------



## HokieKen

I'm jealous Kev!


----------



## theoldfart

This one will get used Ken, the RR has a 3" bit 12" long! We use it to drill the kingpin hole connecting the body to the trucks.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Now what have I gone and done? I found this vintage drill grinding attachment and just had to try it. Never used one before. Always have just sharpened free-hand.


----------



## bandit571

Have almost the same one…


----------



## BlasterStumps

I saw the one you have Bandit. Looked good. Hope it is working for you. I am going to look into how this thing should work and give it a try. I'll post back when I have some experience using it. Might just be the thing for me because my eyesight is not very good now.


----------



## Mosquito

Found a use for some of my random dry/practice/demo moldings... One set fit fairly well for this French cleat breast drill hanger


----------



## BlasterStumps

An update on the Craftsman drill grinding attachment: I have to say, seems to be a very nice tool. I can sharpen free-hand and do a fairly good job but, this tool cuts both cutting edges exactly the same. That is the part of free-hand sharpening that I have found to be the hardest to master. No sweat with this grinding attachment. Yes, it takes some adjustments depending on the particular drill bit but it is very easy to adjust. I have only sharpened about 4 bits on it so far but I am planning to set up a place where I can take some time and go thru a bunch of bits to get their angles re-established and cutting edges sharpened the same. I like it so far.


----------



## bandit571

Wondering IF I could return this to a Sears tool outlet?








Or, does it HAVE to say Craftsman? Paid $0.50 for this drill, today..








"NYLON"? 








Even the gears? Supposed to be "Shock-proof"? Hmmm..


----------



## DevinT

What happens when you take a hand drill designed for drilling metal and put it against acrylic? Well, this happens …









Stanley No 611 vs Acrylic







youtube.com





Note that I am barely lifting a finger doing almost no work at all to turn that crank. It is remarkably easy. It makes me wonder if there isn’t some magic inside the enclosed crank case.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Some more info on use of the Craftsman Drill Grinding Attachment. I found that although I am getting both cutting edges cut the same, I am getting a chisel angle that is too wide. Didn't notice it so much with a 1/2" bit but when I tried to sharpen a 1/4" it became way more apparent. My setup is using the attachment attached to a wood support that is at 90 degrees to the grinding wheel. The way I have it set up is keeping the bit just a bit too far extended. Now that I know that, I will change how I set it up and give it another try on the smaller bits. I will aim for extending the bit about 1/16 past the pointer. and keep that set as close the end of the tool as I can. We'll see what that does.


----------



## DevinT

@BlasterStumps interested to hear back.

In the meantime, please enjoy this recent video I made with my Bridge City CT-6. 1/4” twist versus 1/4” acrylic, up close macro in real-time.









Slow drill in acrylic







youtube.com


----------



## DevinT

And chucking a counter-sink into the CT-6









Hand drill counter sink in acrylic







youtube.com


----------



## Mosquito

@DevinT I was going to ask if you were using standard or acrylic drill bits, but that was answered in the second video I think lol. Great results with a standard bit. 

I've cracked quite a bit of 1/8" acrylic trying to drill holes near edges on the drill press with standard bits in my computer case modding hobbies... Maybe I should have kept my hand crank post drill lol 🤔


----------



## HokieKen

If you are going to drill acrylic a lot Devin, bits with a 60 degree point will make it cleaner and less wasteful. Of course you’re doing fine with your hand drill 😁 If you switch to power though you may want to invest in some. Especially for thinner sheets like Mos’ has obviously found out😆


----------



## Mosquito

Doesn't always pay to be cheap 🤣. Though I only bought the sizes I used... M4 screws clearance and tap, and BSPP/G 1/4" tap sized


----------



## DevinT

I have exactly one 60-degree tipped twist bit and I only use it on plastic and I hand sharpened it myself. It’s my baby, but … it’s a square shanker so it only goes in the brace.

I have not yet acquired a set of 60-degree round shank or hex shanked twists for my hand drill because … I don’t know where to find.

I agree that twist drill bits today are a travesty. First off, what we keep referring to as twist bits are actually usually Dormer bits. There used to be a lot more variety to twist bits than there are on today’s shelves at big box stores. I find I have to go to eBay to find any bit that doesn’t have an obtuse tipped angle.

However, …

I think that’s because step bits exist today.

If you have to make a hole in acrylic fast, and you’ve got a power driver, just chuck a step bit in there and you’ll have a clean hole faster than you can say “Bob’s your Uncle”


----------



## DavePolaschek

When I need unusual twist bits, I fire up the McMaster app. Needed a 3/64 and 1/32 bit for tiny holes in hard-ish woods. Got a dozen of each on the way from McMaster (which is fine, because that way they’re consumables), along with a couple hundred #2x1/4” wood screws in brass, half of which I will probably blacken to use with black iron parts, because nobody (as far as I can find) makes black oxide wood screws smaller than #4s.


----------



## Mosquito

DevinT said:


> If you have to make a hole in acrylic fast, and you’ve got a power driver, just chuck a step bit in there and you’ll have a clean hole faster than you can say “Bob’s your Uncle”


Huh, interesting, I've never tried a step bit with acrylic. I'll have to give that a try sometime


----------



## HokieKen

DevinT said:


> I have exactly one 60-degree tipped twist bit and I only use it on plastic and I hand sharpened it myself. It’s my baby, but … it’s a square shanker so it only goes in the brace.
> 
> I have not yet acquired a set of 60-degree round shank or hex shanked twists for my hand drill because … I don’t know where to find.
> 
> I agree that twist drill bits today are a travesty. First off, what we keep referring to as twist bits are actually usually Dormer bits. There used to be a lot more variety to twist bits than there are on today’s shelves at big box stores. I find I have to go to eBay to find any bit that doesn’t have an obtuse tipped angle.
> 
> However, …
> 
> I think that’s because step bits exist today.
> 
> If you have to make a hole in acrylic fast, and you’ve got a power driver, just chuck a step bit in there and you’ll have a clean hole faster than you can say “Bob’s your Uncle”


As far as I know, Dormer is just a brand not a drill style? I must confess that I have never owned or used Dormer bits though so I don’t know for sure. 

“Twist” bits simply means a bit with helical flutes up the shank to me. There are lots of variations but the most common is a 32 degree helix and a 118 degree standard point.


----------



## BlasterStumps

Ok, got one for ya,
Was it worth $8, no. Is it in good shape, no. Can't operate the direction shifter. Handle doesn't turn very easily. Ugliest chuck I have ever ran across. But, I had to get it so that I could have it in hand so that i could try to figure out what it is. On the crank it says DEX 10. What is that? Can't find any pictures of similar braces. Anyone see something like it before? It looks old to me based on the fact that it has screws that hold the collars in place on each side of the handle. Never seen a ratchet shifter mechanism like it has. If I start disassembly, these pictures may show the last time it was all together. : )


----------



## DevinT

HokieKen said:


> As far as I know, Dormer is just a brand not a drill style? I must confess that I have never owned or used Dormer bits though so I don’t know for sure.
> 
> “Twist” bits simply means a bit with helical flutes up the shank to me. There are lots of variations but the most common is a 32 degree helix and a 118 degree standard point.


The reason you've been dup'd into thinking that Dormer is "just a brand" is because of history's lack of attribution to said company for their contribution (or rather, their patent expired and they had the best generic all-purpose design which is now copied by all twist drill manufacturers).

Now, when you go to the Dormer company and you look at their current offerings, it is once again like the old days, I would call their current offerings "Dormer bits" because they are still under patent and cannot be copied by others (back in the day, that 32-degree and 118-degree point was patented and unique to Dormer until their patent expired).

Dormer has some pretty fancy bits these days -- I'd be hard pressed to call them "twist bits" because that doesn't do them justice.

When you read through old texts though, they make it a point to call it a Dormer when they want you to use a 118-degree tipped bit and they'll say twist bit AND specify the geometry otherwise (as-in my basic benchwork for machinists book does -- when a bit is approximately 120 degree tip, they just take the shortcut and mention Dormer).

EDIT: Having this useless knowledge, I know that when I go to the BORG or similar and I see a pack of bits in a green plastic box, I just have to look at the tip and guesstimate the angle as 60, 90, or 120, and if I think it's about 120 then I presume it's a Dormer clone -- which my grandfather taught me, Dormers are great general purpose drill bits but if you want to do the best job, you've got to use the right one (he worked on Navy submarines -- and he was very tough, about as tough as they make them, and I'm still going through the few tools we rescued from his gigantic 2-story detached garage most of which was sold off and little survived)


----------



## HokieKen

Thanks Devin, I didn’t know that little tidbit of history  

Mike: DEX10 = PEXTO 😉


----------



## BlasterStumps

Thanks Kenny, I will look at pictures of PEXTO drills some more to see what else I can find out about this one.


----------



## HokieKen

I don’t know for sure it’s Pexto Mike but Dex 10 just seems like Pexto that got partially worn off.


----------



## BlasterStumps

i cleaned the area of the letters on that drill and it is D.E.X. 10. The drill is interesting but unusable. Chuck is not any good and if there is supposed to be a ratchet mechanism, I didn't figure it out.


----------



## bandit571

Perhaps a Goodell Pratt Co. made for Diamond Edge? With the "10" as the size of the sweep?


----------



## BlasterStumps

I finally got around to setting up the drill bit grinding attachment. First I tried it with the Craftsman bench grinder but quickly wished for something different because of several reasons. That grinder is a 1/2hp 3650rpm and it has a long coast down. I am also not a big fan of using the side of a bench grinder stone. So, I made a wood mount and fastened it with a couple right angle brackets to the top of the vertical sharpener setup that I have. Then mounted the grinding attachment to that and I like it much better. Using the attachment with the bit pointing down at an angle seems to work good as well. The sanding disc I have is 120 grit. It could probably be coarser grit but I don't have coarser for right now. One big plus for using the vertical sharpener that I put together is that the motor speed is 1725 rpm I believe. The motor is a 1/3 hp. The slower speed doesn't seem to heat up the bit during the sharpening unless you linger in the process of swinging the attachment. Here is what the setup looks like:


----------



## BlasterStumps

Final thoughts on using the Craftsman drill grinding attachment:
It took me a little bit to get to where I was using it correctly. The thing I was struggling with the most was the chisel angle. Once I figured out how to reduce that, I was pleased at how the bits were being sharpened. But as I quickly learned because of having a couple different brand of bits, the chisel angle is not only a result of the sharpener but the design of the bit as well. Anyway, that is where you have to get a little creative and change how you use the attachment. Otherwise, I would have to give this sharpener high marks. I spent about an hour today and sharpened all the bits that I have at the drill press in the garage and the set in the workshop. They are as close to original on the cutting edges now as I could hope for. I'm happy, happy, happy.
I tried to take a good picture to show the results on a bit but found it quite difficult to get a good pic. Here is what I can share:


----------



## donwilwol

I still like walking to the grinder, holding the bit, seeing the angle, pushing it to the grinder and twisting with my hand resting on the guide. Two swipes each side and inspect. Rinse and repeat as required.

Whatever works best for you. Once you have a technique that works for sharpening bits, your life becomes a little happier.

And a little happier is a good thing.


----------



## BlasterStumps

I will do likewise Don on the smaller bits for sure. Anything 1/4" or less in size, it seems overkill to set it up in the sharpener when like you say, put it to the grinder for just a couple swipes and it is usually good to go. I was out in my workshop today and found another set of small bits I forgot I had. It looks like I need to spend more time on the sharpener. : )


----------



## corelz125

Mike send a pm


----------



## Bearcontrare

Regarding the brace, I can say that the one and only "Pexto" (Peck, Stow & Company) brace I own has the name VERY faintly imprinted on the chuck. Takes my reading glasses and a magnifying glass to read.
Seems they cheaped up on stamping their braces.


----------



## Mosquito

Is that really what Pexto means/stands for? I never knew that


----------



## bandit571

I have a copy of their 1910 Catalog sitting by my desk....


----------



## HokieKen

Don't forget Wilcox. PEXTO was a merger of Peck, Stow and Wilcox.


----------



## Bearcontrare

Yes, Sir, Mos..... I looked it up. Quite a bit of information about them available. I thought it was a pretty clever amalgamation of the names, especially for that time.....


----------



## bandit571

Hmmmm...








and the back cover..








And a page or two that MIGHT be of interest...








I have the 10" and the 12" sweeps, BTW, and...








I think I also have that #1004, 6" sweep....


----------



## bandit571

Pilot hole drill, today..








By Goodell Pratt Co.......Needed a few drops of oil...was a bit loud with the gear noise....now? Quiet as a Mouse...
Pilot holes for those screws....








These screws...


----------



## Bearcontrare

Nice looking hand drill! Like your comment about quiet operation.
Among the herd here, I was given a Stanley Defiance. Works quite well, but makes rattley sounds no matter how much you lubricate it. 
Guessing from the 50s or early 60s, so hand tools were starting to go downhill by then....


----------



## bandit571

Just a selection...








Then along the back wall..








Then on into the corner..








Largest one is a Stanley 14", with the Hold-all chuck.


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## RJ2

Dennisgrosen said:


> that´s potrait of Krenov is in the top ten of potrait I ever have seen and I have seen alot and taken a few
> these kind of potrait´s say´s alot more about the person than those standard picture´s
> the photostudio´s take
> 
> but here here is my little collection of none restored drills :-(
> the first has only two jaws …. Brand unown sofare … the closet and the tools
> was in the house when we bought it
> 
> View attachment 629438
> 
> 
> the two I enherithed from my father
> 
> View attachment 629521
> 
> 
> the blue one here has the same size
> View attachment 629587
> 
> 
> the breastdrill you see here is smaller than the black and blue
> View attachment 629652
> 
> 
> yes a few drillbits has arived too …with a brace … LOL
> View attachment 629716
> 
> 
> I know I have to clean them up and take a new fammely potrait …. but for now its still planes
> I slowly try to restore …. lack of time :-(
> 
> take care
> Dennis


 I spotted my "YANKEE SCREWDRIVER ' there far right picture . Nope mine is still downstairs.


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## bandit571

This one?


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## KentInOttawa

Bandit, your assortment prompted me to take this photo of mine.








Stanley 923s:

8" w/ a countersink bit always left in it;
10" with a spoke pointer always left in it;
a 10" ready for whatever...
a 14" w/ a #12 (3/4") bit always ready to go (for dog holes, dontcha know?); and
a 12" ready-to-go.
I have a Yankee screwdriver or two somewhere, but I've never liked using them so I have no idea where they are right now. I really like using the (GP No 5?) eggbeater drill, so it has a place nearby and is always handy. There are also some boxes of twist drills (standard and brad-point) on the shelf and the hollow tennon cutter on the shelf. A box of auger bits is on the top of the cabinet just to the left of this photo.
After taking this photo, my Type A kicked in and I swapped the 12" and 14" augers so that everything is in ascending order of size.  I need to watch that sort of thing...


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