# Important info for Wood Burning Stoves and Fire Places



## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

I was looking online at fire places and came across this important bit of information that I never took into consideration nor did I realize, and thought I'd share it here since it also addresses wood burning stoves. There's another thing besides sawdust that we now have to worry about in protecting our lungs.

The Wood Stove / Fire Place Delusion

Edit In:

*I want to first apologize for this posting, I posted it without taking into consideration many other factors involved and am on the fence about removing it but since so many have taken the time to post long informative comments on it I think that would be selfish to remove it, a lot of great points have been made and I tend to agree, there were things that I had not taken into consideration before posting it such as the fact I too like outside BBQ's and I'm not going to stop.

I'll leave it up to the curious to view the article but as others have posted below it's producing no result and useless.

*


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## Picklehead (Feb 12, 2013)

I think softwoods are ok. *ABSOLUTELY NO HARDWOODS ARE TO BE BURNED*, and should be forwarded to my address (available upon request) for proper disposal. You will thank me later.


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## Armandhammer (Dec 12, 2013)

I know many, many people that heat their homes with wood. I know very very few people that have or have had cancer or any type of serious respiratory illness besides the occasional bout of pneumonia. I think I'll take my chances.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Pickle, from what I understand after reading is that no woods are safe no matter soft or hard, however I believe gas is safe though and am thinking of converting my fireplace to gas now, just need to have the gas lines ran to it.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

It's absolutely correct. But my alternative is burning more fuel oil with all the geopolitical bagage that comes with. Not to mention the cost at over $3.50 a gallon at the moment. The downed ash trees in the woods behind me are free except for the chain saw gas and oil. I wonder how much pellet stoves pollute?


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

I'm not going to be an advocate on this issue, but I am going to take into consideration the people that are outside of my fireplace the same as second hand smoke from a cigarette.


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## Craftsman70 (Jul 31, 2012)

And eating a steak off the grill is bad for you too, but you have to live life and not worry about every little thing.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Almost all heat comes from combustion. Yes gas is cleaner, but cleaner doesn't necessarily equate to clean. And how do we get gas? There are plenty of environmental issues there as well.

I'm not suggesting the article is wrong, I am suggesting there is no reference to a real life perspective. I'm betting the same article could be written for gas in relationship to electric heat, but then the same question can be asked about how we get electric.

It's your money, so spend it how you feel is right, but I'd suggest some research to put it into perspective of the big picture. It may be spot on, but it may be just another internet article with some facts that may be true, but may be in a perspective of the writer. Maybe he owns a lot of gas stock.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

And this doesn't even get into the controversial practice of Fracking For Firewood and the random explosions of firewood storage, distribution and usage systems. It is well known that that after an earthquake in a populated area most of the damage and death is often caused by ruptured firewood pipelines.


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## HillbillyShooter (Feb 15, 2012)

I never ceased to be amazed at how humans managed to survive for thousands of years without being
enlightened by long winded, seudo intellectuals using multi-syllable words to pontificate on their view of a politically correct world.


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## BJODay (Jan 29, 2013)

Here is something I learned in a Haz-Mat class:
If you can smell it, it is particulate. Think about this the next time someone farts in an elevator. Or the next time you drive past a foundry.

Everything in moderation. Personally I feel I gain more with an occasional wood fire, relaxation, companionship, stress relief.

BJ


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## basswood (Dec 18, 2013)

This article is not scientific in the least. It makes blatantly misleading statements and misapplies facts out of context.

Where I live in the Twin Cities, detailed analysis of air quality attributes less than 3% of air pollution to wood smoke. That is the sort of context lacking in that piece of hysteria.

IIRC over half of the air pollution linked to the respiratory complaints mentioned are still from cars. Scientifically speaking we should all give the horrible automobile long before banning wood burning.

Also higher on the list is outdoor power equipment. No more lawnmowers or chain saws! Time to start grazing goats in our yards, I guess. Oh but they produce methane a potent green house gas. The horror.

ATV's are also pollute more than wood burning. Forget snowmobiling.

The story fails to explain the gains in clean burning, EPA rated wood burning appliances.

I believe the social benefits of gathering around a fire are actually more important a contribution than ever in an increasingly fragmented society. Fires are good for connecting, conversing, bonding, solving the worlds problems. You know like how to deal with the really important issues of the day, not the over-hyped issues like the one here.

That article is a smokescreen, obscuring the real problems in our world.


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

You will die of something. How, when and where is a moot point. I want to be 90 years old and get shot by a jealous husband.  My college buddy wanted to get run over by a beer truck.
One thing that the article doesn't mention is the conditions in which the fuel is burned- confined areas, open rooms, etc. There are a lot of variables that should figure into the "study." We have several houses around us that have either wood stoves or fireplaces. I have yet to detect it inside my home. Outside, it's another story.


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## mochoa (Oct 9, 2009)

Yeah, I'm not going to stop burning firewood anytime soon. And I'm not going to stop charring my steaks ether even though it creates carcinogens, I dont do it that often, same as with burning wood.

Lets talk about how to burn more… I just read that its cool to burn pine in the fireplace, have you all heard the same? If so, thats great news for me because I have tons of it to burn.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Mauricio,

Here is a great site for information on heating with wood:
http://www.woodheat.org/


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

Maurico,
Pine=less heat and a quicker burn. But, it is heat! Just gotta feed it more often.


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

BJODay, sometimes farts are all I have to keep me warm.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

I guess take it for what it's worth, but I would go as for as to say a gas fire place is much easier to clean.

For these reasons alone I'd prob switch to a gas fireplace.


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## upinflames (Jun 24, 2012)

I have plenty of mesquite for fireplace and cooking, not gonna give it up. I think the guy that wrote that is in with the folks that want us to put filters on the back end of our cows, that ain't happenin !!!


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

I found it particularly interesting that exactly zero of the many studies mentioned were cited. Only a recommended reading was offered at the end of the article. It's interesting how when studies are cited (making such arguments just slightly more than subjective babble) they are carefully chosen to parallel the original argument, while always offering no other perspectives or objective information.


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## nicholasrhall (Aug 19, 2012)

The article above cited above is not really about wood-burning. It was a short essay intended to give secular people a demonstration of a deeply held belief that is not supported by scientific evidence, which they irrationally and hostilely defend or rationalize because of sentimental attachment rather than reasoned argument. The purpose is to give non-believers a sense of what it is like for people of faith to defend their beliefs without the support of science. (that's a whole can of worms I have no interest opening or discussing, it's just what the article is about)

Blackie, the original poster, presumably posted the article link above to inform us of the dangers to respiratory health posed by woodstoves. Instead, it seems as though he created a case study for the original thesis/purpose of the article. If that was the purpose, then I have to chuckle at Blackie's sense of humor. If it wasn't it's an interesting exercise in irony.

Personally, I love heating with wood. I've heated my home with only wood (no other heat source) for cold NH winters and loved every minute of it. My family still heats with only wood in Maine. I think it makes more sense than burning diesel fuel (home heating oil) sourced from the Middle East, and I don't think it hits the top 1000 list of environmental threats to the United States. They'll have to pry the last stick of wood out of my cold dead hands.

That said, I've never really bothered to research the issue, and I'm curious now to look at the evidence both pro and con, with the full expectation that I'm going to keep right on burning wood. In any case, it was an interesting article and sociological experiment all at the same time. I'm glad Blackie posted it, although now I'm going to have to spend some time tonight researching a reasoned case for burning wood.

Thanks Blackie for a brave post. I imagine you knew you'd get a bit of pushback before posting it. For what it's worth it made this lumberjock at least stop to think about the woodburning I do.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

BS
I would prefer to burn corn.
More consistent, easier to control, smells great, and would be cheaper than any other fuel if it were not for the stupid requirement that gasoline must contain renewable fuel (alcohol) content.
But, there are surely negative health effects associated with burning anything. Including electricity.

I don't think the argument that thousands, or millions, of years of humans evolving and dying because of breathing wood smoke recognizes the reality of that process. The ones that could not survive that process are no longer in the gene pool.


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## 49er (Jan 3, 2014)

Basswood mentioned other sources of pollution includes chainsaws and other handheld power equipment. Well the chainsaw people went to catalytic converters and sealed carb adjustment screws for a while. This was a poor stop gap measure to EPA standards. The newer saws are now designed with stratified charge ports and auto tune carburetors to control pollution. These new saws use less fuel and make more power and at the same time the operator breathes less fumes. Now it might not effect a weekend firewood cutter but a professional timber cutter who cuts 2000 hours a year, it could make a difference in his life. I can only imagine how much saw dust a professional cutter would ingest in a life time. It seems as if every profession comes with its own hazards.


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## nicholasrhall (Aug 19, 2012)

I forgot to add that Sam Harris is a moral philosopher whose work centers on the importance of rationality, secularism, and evidence based social, political and economic policy. It is a bit funny that he forgot to give any citations for the studies he mentions, and basically just asserts his anti-wood argument as correct without really giving evidence for it. I'm not saying he's wrong or right, I'm just it's funny he forgot the evidence part given his background.


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## bbc557ci (Sep 20, 2012)

Bunch of liberal bull ********************…..

Just another liberal deep thinker that wants to impress his followers, or gain some followers, or maybe join in with other sheeple, or maybe he just likes to hear himself talk….or maybe all of the above. I heated my previous house with wood and or coal for 24 years and I'm still alive to tell about it, as are my wife and daughter. When we were kids my father often heated our house with wood, as did my gram-paw. No one in the family has expired due to lung disease.


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## mochoa (Oct 9, 2009)

Yeah thats what I read, pine burns faster. In the past pine was blamed for the dangerous build up in chimneys but what I read was that slow burning wood (like wet wood) that moves air up the chimney slower are the biggest danger. I need to check a couple of more sources though, I'm still not sure about burning pine.

I'll check out those links Chuck, thanks! I've been making a lot of stuff out of 2×6's, because its cheap I am choosy about what pieces I use which leave a ton of scraps.

In all seriousness though, I don't think wood chimneys are a very efficient way of heating your house, at least not mine. Not unless you have one of those built in contraptions that circulate heat from behind your fireplace. But hey what do I know, I'm a southerner, this is all new to me.

My fireplace also burns gas, the problem is the sticker shock you get when you open your gas bill. It gets expensive fast!


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Nicholas,

That is exactly what I did not understand. Harris claims to be demonstrating what a person feels when his deeply-held yet non-scientific beliefs are assaulted by scientific evidence to the contrary. But, his lack of actual evidence makes this into the conflict of two sets of non-scientific beliefs.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

We burn mostly oak firewood because it is the best in our area (BTU). I think soft woods build up more creosote than hard woods because they have a cooler burn. In my area the alternative is propane, natural gas or electricity. Electricity is generated her by burning natural gas. We don't have rivers and lake that are large enough to generate electricity. Propane has gone up 4 fold this year so it is becoming out of reach. I think this is mainly due to the govt regs. Natural gas is about to take a jump because they are coming out with locomotives that will be flex fuel. Either diesel or compressed natural gas engines to drive their generators. Then we have natural gas automobiles coming along too. This looks good to a person with a natural gas well but is it really. It will drive the prices up for you and me. I have a well to help offset the cost but maybe you don't. Then it will be like propane. Propane was 3 cents a gallon when I was 6 years old. Now it is over $4 per gallon. Best thing is to keep doing what works for you and worry less about the pollution. When the Iraq war called Desert Shield or Desert Storm came up I watched 2 men interviewed on Night Line. The young man was about 25 or 30. He was going on about all the pollution from the burning oil wells in the middle east and how it would cause a large black cloud that would cool the earth and we would all freeze to death. He was in a state of hysteria. Then there was a man that appeared to be about 60 years old. He said the earth is a self cleaning system. The smoke would go out over the Indian ocean and the oil particles would drop out of the air and into the ocean. He went on to say that the amount of actual oil was so minute that it would have no effect on the ocean or marine life and it would never wash up on any shoreline. I thought to myself that this would be a great test. Let's watch and see what happens. Well, I did and as the older man had stated the earth is self cleaning and most of what we sea is media and old hippie hype. I think we should try to take care of what we have but we have to life and this earth was designed for just that. Humans can and do live here. We will never destroy ourselves. but that is another discussion.


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## bbc557ci (Sep 20, 2012)

Interesting site, if you wanna learn a little about heating with wood.

http://www.hearth.com/talk/


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## PineChopper (May 21, 2012)

The article probably had some truth to it but sounds more like the rants of an environmental wacko.
No smoke from any source is good for your body.

Never underestimate the stupidity of the general public.


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## bbc557ci (Sep 20, 2012)

I had a one of the newer design wood stove that I heated with. Made by Pacific Energies, Canadian if I remember right. The stove had/has a stainless steel secondary burner, that caused/allowed the smoke (carbon) to burn, before it got to the chimney (also stainless steel). Smoke came from the chimney for 5-7 minutes when I would 1st re-fire in the morning. After that I'd adjust the air flow to the fire box, and no smoke would be seen coming from the chimney. The stove was of air tight design and very efficient, and it was very rare to get any smell/odor from burning wood inside the house. The house is out in the sticks so no natural gas available. Wood is WAY cheaper than heating with electric, oil or propane.

When I'd throw some cherry or apple wood in the stove, on initial start up I'd open the stove door. The smell of the burning cherry and apple was like perfume to me )

Ever drive down a country road in the cold months and get a wiff of cherry in someones wood burner? Makes a road trip real pleasant )


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

If it smells good, tastes good, or looks good, it's bad for you.
Just ask someone who dated a super model.


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## WibblyPig (Jun 8, 2009)

But, there are surely negative health effects associated with burning anything. Including electricity.

You can burn electricity?


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

I live in apple country. Every year, thousands of pounds go up on smoke clearing it out of the way for the next crop year. Needless to say, a lot of it gets used to heat homes. I love it for the heat it generates, compared to soft woods.

One thing which has bothered me over the years is, I don't see any real impressive improvements in efficiency since the days I used it as my sole source of heat. Back then, I lived in an old two story with no insulation. Twenty below was common weather. My stove was an old, brown porcelain parlor stove. I heated that old house with it off a couple cords.

Now, I see folks using four and five cords a year, while pumping a lot of smoke. Where are the real improvements? The closest thing I've seen are the jet stoves. Operated properly, they seem to produce very little smoke and they seem to capture most the btu's from the wood.


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## Oldsaxon (Jul 17, 2013)

I have a nice woodburner that I use to heat my thermal store which, in turn, heats my house and domestic hot water. It's fine. I have no worries about it and it smells less acrid than the neighbours dreadful coal burning boiler. I used to have a very inefficient gas combi boiler which is now gone. Gas seems cleaner until you factor in the supply chain and it's a lot cheaper to do it my way. Wood is also renewable and carbon neutral.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

To touch on some of the comments, I first want to say that I keep an open mind, I didn't post it to debate and as for as my political standing goes I stand with the red, I don't always have the answers and so when posting subjects like this I listen to what others have to say and analyze taking into consideration points made about in regards to the many other things that are harmful other then what I posted which makes since, there are a lot of things that we have no control over and some we do.


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## bbc557ci (Sep 20, 2012)

*kelvancra *- No impressive improvements? You might be seeing smoke from older wood stoves, or people who don't know the proper way to burn a wood stove.

Read my post #30. There are some pretty efficient stoves out there. Like I said, little to no smoke came from my stove once it got going. Also, wet and or not seasoned wood will produce smoke, and vapor. Wood needs to be properly seasoned (dried) before being thrown into the stove. Ash is an exception, it can be "green" and still burn pretty much ok.

In my post #28 I posted a link to a fire place / wood stove site that is full of all kinds of useful info regarding wood heat.


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

Yes there are some much more efficient wood stoves, but even the most efficient wood stoves put out more particulate matter (unhealthy and pollute the air) than pellet stoves which are still way more than natural gas. Electric actually depends on your power company's mix of fuel. The more nuclear or gas, the lower their pollution, but you have tradeoffs there with fracking, nuclear, geopolitics, etc. The more coal your power company uses the worse your electric power is, but it's still better than burning it at home because when they burn it on a large scale they can scrub some of the nasty stuff out of it. They don't scrub it all though so coal causes more radioactive pollution than nuclear power does (by a lot), but it's harder to stop coal than the evilz nuclear.

I do have to point out that comments like "I heated my previous house with wood and or coal for 24 years and I'm still alive to tell about it, as are my wife and daughter. When we were kids my father often heated our house with wood, as did my gram-paw. No one in the family has expired due to lung disease." are just misunderstandings of statistics. If you lived through it it doesn't make it ok, it just means you got a little lucky. Just like living healthy and dying of cancer at 20 doesn't mean living healthy isn't a good idea. If you smoke or have other high risk behaviors throughout your life then your odds of getting cancer are much higher. It's not a guarantee either way, it's about odds. Statistics is probably the single bit of math more useful to pulling the wool over people's eyes than anything else, and on the other hand, protecting yourself from it.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

"You can burn electricity?" 
You most certainly can.
Why do you think they call those spiral heating elements on a stove "burners"?

Bur really the analogy I was pointing to was that something gets burned to produce electricity in the first place. A large percentage of it is a produced by burning coal. Some by natural gas, some by nuclear "burning" of uranium. Even solar produced electricity requires PV cells which are consumed over a lifespan of 25 to 30 years and it takes a lot of energy and creates a lot of nasty pollution to manufacture those cells.

Nothing is free, except in the minds of some liberals.


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## bristol24 (Jan 26, 2014)

I hardly consider myself an expert, but I have been heating my home with wood and oil for 28 years. Heating with wood is a mature technology and in practice, an inexact science. The numbers are soft math.

Experience tells me that burning dry wood reduces my consumption in the neighborhood of 20%. I have replaced both of my stoves with the more efficient models, and these also use less wood (20% less? Maybe?). In 1985-6, I burned 12 cds and 600 gallons of oil. In 2012-13, I burned 7.5 cds and 230 gallons of oil in a 40% bigger, but better insulated house with two more efficient stoves and dry wood, even though I now heat water with oil. Increased efficiency allows me to offset more of the oil. I usually estimate my wood BTUs at the equivalent of 100 gallons of oil, which is probably conservative. Oil heat is also dirty, also releases particulates, and significantly adds to my electric bill (due to ignition and blower). Our electricity is generated with biomass (wood), oil, gas, coal, nuclear, and wind. It's not "Clean" energy.

Wood smoke can be a problem, especially when mixed with radon.

The oil in my tanks cost 3.49/g. The wood in my cellar cost $105.00/cd. (MUCH less expensive.) The wood was cut and purchased locally. The Oil is imported.

My first post. Don't know if this is useful or not.


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## bbc557ci (Sep 20, 2012)

Tim - What I posted is not a misunderstanding of a statistic, at least as I see it. It is simply part of the way my family has provided heat for our homes for 3 generations, and with no known ill effects.

To the best of my knowledge, in the end, there is no truly clean way to heat a building, other than maybe passive solar, which here in the NE has a long long way to go before it would or could even be close to being a serious contender. But hey, I'm just a dumb ol' country boy so what do I know ;o)


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

I've also replaced my oil furnace TWICE in the twenty years I've owned my home, on top of pumps and tanks and filters and semi annual cleanings etc. I installed the wood stove (which has a catalytic converter) and chimney once and clean it myself. I wish I could heat my whole home with wood.


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## 7Footer (Jan 24, 2013)

Wow, well there's a few minutes of my life that I'll never get back. I have so many problems with this article it's not even worth getting into.

Sam Harris can suck it.


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## bbc557ci (Sep 20, 2012)

'atta boy LMAO


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## LiveEdge (Dec 18, 2013)

Sam Harris is a moron. Intelligent, but a moron nonetheless. He is a poor scientist and an even worse philosopher.

Assuming that it is true that wood smoke is "30 times more carcinogenic than cigarette smoke", we have no context as to how much wood smoke we typically inhale. If it typically takes decades of cigarette smoking to trigger a cancer where we are literally inhaling the smoke directly into our lungs on purpose, maybe only very few actually ever have enough wood smoke inhalation to do the same thing.

I wonder how Harris would explain the fact that the rise of lung cancer is pretty tightly linked in society to the rise of cigarette smoking. On the other hand, I'd say fewer and fewer people are using wood as their primary source of heat. If wood smoke was the bigger enemy we would expect the amount of lung cancer to be going down, not up.

Harris isn't really interested in wood smoke and cancer. He's just using it as a story to get to what he really likes to do…bash religion. Mercifully, it takes him all the way to the last line of the essay to get there.


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## bbc557ci (Sep 20, 2012)

I'd bet that Jesus Christ himself heated and cooked with wood.

LiveEdge - I'm not bashing, bet it's so.


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## LiveEdge (Dec 18, 2013)

I think you'd win that bet.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Someone touched upon a good point, which is, efficiency changes with the wood you're using. A manufacturer can claim high efficiency, but it means no more than a company selling a dust collector and making claims about the CFM of its unit. Regarding the latter, how plugged was the filter, how much pipe is on it, is the chimney insulated to keep if from cooling, and so forth. With the former, how much moisture content is in the wood, how contaminated is the converter after a year, etc.

I know they have made improvements, on some stoves, but compared to which of the oldies? A lot of new stoves grab a lot of heat from the fire, but a lot more than smoke goes up the chimney. I was just whining for a stove which grabs every last bit of heat from the wood, before it goes out the chimney. That's why I mentioned the jet stoves. The stack temps get far, far higher than anything you're buying down town. That means what would have been smoke becomes fuel (monoxide and hydrogen). Stick your face in the chimney of one and you can't feel any heat and may get just a whiff of smoke.

__
Read my post #30. There are some pretty efficient stoves out there. Like I said, little to no smoke came from my stove once it got going. Also, wet and or not seasoned wood will produce smoke, and vapor. Wood needs to be properly seasoned (dried) before being thrown into the stove. Ash is an exception, it can be "green" and still burn pretty much ok.

In my post #28 I posted a link to a fire place / wood stove site that is full of all kinds of useful info regarding wood heat.

-Bill, central NY…no where near the "big apple"


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

On the matter of smoke posing a health problem, I quit cigarettes for good reason. I didn't look at any of the articles some mentioned, but I know there is some good information, which, if followed, can cut the dangers dramatically. Fro example, in African countries, many die from lung problems and a lot of them exhaust their cooking stoves in their homes. When that goes down, so do the lung problems. Accordingly, things like high chimneys, hot fires that create draw, insulated chimneys that reduce cooling and related drop in draw are worthwhile pursuing.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

Fact 100 out of 100 people will die. That being taken into consideration I will have my wood fire, grill my steak and eat red meat, enjoy a few shots of vodka and a cigar and then retire to the bedroom for extracurricular activities to my hearts content. I am not living in a bubble the rest of my life out of fear of cancer or anything else.

my 2 cents worth anyway. (Laughing)


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## Kentuk55 (Sep 21, 2010)

Pine is the worst wood you could burn, imo.


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## bbc557ci (Sep 20, 2012)

Pine - yep, I don't think it's the best stuff for a wood stove. Not much for BTU's and is said to produce allot more creasote than hard woods which is why I always burned HW, and well/properly seasoned at that. On the other hand, I have a bud that burns almost anything in his stove, wood of all flavors, pallets, cardboard, paper….

My SS chimney was high and poked thru a 12/12 pitch roof, so I had a pro clean the chimney after every burning season. My stove with the secondary burner was pretty efficient, as far as wood stoves go. He'd only get about 2-3 cups of crust/creasote from the cleaning. Partly I believe because every time I'd re-load the stove, I'd burn it very hot for the 1st 10 minutes or so, which I believed burned off any creasote that had built up from the overnight burn.

Damit…all this talk of wood stoves is making me miss my warm/toasty wood heat!! (


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Thought I'd let everyone know that I edited and added to the original post.


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## BJODay (Jan 29, 2013)

Woodbutcherbynight: "Fact 100 out of 100 people will die. "

My aim is to live forever,...So far so good.

BJ


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Randy,

There is no need to apologize. Everyone can read the article you refer to and make his own conclusion.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

BJODay = LOL


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

The article may be true, I don't now. As a former science teacher, his one source of information at the bottom of the article is not enough. You'd need at least three and usually in a good study there are dozens. It's sort of like global warming. 97% of scientists say it's for real and we're causing the tipping point for it. One guy sees a market for selling a book to the non believers so he writes it knowing that Fox news will pick up on it and give him free advertising. I have to admit that I'd be one of those to shamelessly write a book like that for a couple million dollars.
That said, Wood may or may not be an issue. I do know that the airtight wood stove I used to heat with really worked well. The smoldering wood smoke went up the chimney as the intake vent was 95% shut. And if it entered the houses of the people next to me; well, why did they have their windows open when it was zero degrees out?


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

+1 Craftsman on the lake
*
And if it entered the houses of the people next to me; well, why did they have their windows open when it was zero degrees out?

nice….......(laughing)


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## bbc557ci (Sep 20, 2012)

Well, we have been burning wood to keep warm and cook food ever since fire was discovered so…..

The good ol' earth has warmed up and cooled off several times. Ice caps have shrunk and grown so…..

I have no bullet proof answers. No one else does either, including the egg heads and scientists. Think I'll throw a T-bone on the grill this week end in honor of this discussion )


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

*+1 bbc557ci * I am inspired as well, guess I am going to go outside and have a fire in the barrel, smoke a cigar and maybe have a few steaks as well.


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

Hey, watch out who you're callin' and egghead scientist. I'm one of them.. kinda.

Actually now that you mention it… look at my avatar.. I guess you're right! Eggheads of the world unite! Hijack this thread and post your egghead.


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

I made a "Big O'l Fire last night in tribute to this thread. As well most of the neighbors had their fires burning, it was 13 Degrees last night and a bit breezy so I figure it felt like 7 to 9 Degrees. 
Don't fret my northern friends though, it will be 75 Degrees by tomorrow. 
I burn Pecan because it is free to me, I have a lot of it and not afraid to burn it. 
I refuse to pay 4 to 5 Franklins a months for propane. We are next in line to get natural gas to our neighborhood but who knows if it will make it here for sure.

I also burn all my weeds and trimmings from my property, which is a lot and some of the neighbors when they aren't looking. Otherwise I have to drive 30 miles to take them to the dump. In the cities infinite wisdom they closed the yard debris dump off that was 5 miles away to save money. 
I burn everything I can including some trash so I won't fill up the land with waste.
So there is another dilemma the tree huggers can figure out which one is worse burning or land fills.

I make my own decisions til the Marshall comes to my house and gives me a huge fine for burning trash and growing unmentionables.


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## mochoa (Oct 9, 2009)

Bill, hearth.com has a lot of great info. Seems like my pre fab open fireplace is just for show. It actual sucks more heat out, and doesn't actually warm the house. I'm going to need to do more reading on how to make it work for me.

In any case, looks like I can burn pine so I have a way to get rid of all these scraps.


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## bbc557ci (Sep 20, 2012)

Mauricio - hearth.com is a great site. Kind of like the LJ's of wood burning. There are allot of knowledgeable people on there. Don't be shy about jumping in on the wood burning forums and shooting out questions. Great bunch and they are quite willing to answer questions.

Pre fabs as you have can produce some heat but they also do let allot go up the chimney. Careful, many/most are double wall steel and can/will rust between the two layers of steel. Pin holes can develop where the rust is, and can result in house fires. Kind of rare, but it does happen. In my line of work I've come across it a few times over the years. Generally the older Heatilator brand is the culprit. When you feel like getting dirty, clean out the fire box real well, and check where corners meet, and where the sides meet the front and back, and where the sides meet the bottom and top. Rust seems to develop mostly in those areas - seams.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

So, basically life is hazardous to your health….


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## bbc557ci (Sep 20, 2012)

KS - Yep, don't eat steak or breath and you should be just fine )


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Unfortunately, as mentioned above, most fireplaces in modern houses are a decorative afterthought. Between the faulty geometries and external chimneys, they are not useful for heating.

Check out the Rumford fireplace designs here:
http://www.rumford.com/

There is a lot of information on that site.

Our house is a central-chimney colonial built around 1800. It originally had six Rumford fireplaces. The large beehive oven in the kitchen now has our woodstove. One fireplace gave up its flue for the oil furnace and one disappeared into a closet long before we were here.

When we use the fireplace in the living room, the radiant heat it gives off is amazing. There is never any smoke inside the house. The next morning, the masonry is still giving off heat.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

So ChuckV does your home have 12' ceilings by chance? What about energy efficient leakage?


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Randy,

No, the ceiling heights are about what you see in modern houses, maybe even a little less in some parts.

The house is far from being "airtight". We heat mainly with the wood stove. The kitchen is the best room in the house! It is really called a Keeping Room. Back in the day, it was the one room that was well heated. The adults would sleep there and the children would be off in the more frigid zones of the house. The room runs the entire length of the house, 40'. It is wonderful to have a central location like this for eating, cooking, reading, studying and playing games.

The bedrooms are upstairs and stay nice and cool, which is what we like. A few years ago, we had an ice storm that knocked out our power for 12 days. We had no generator then, but we were still able to stay in the house. There was no plumbing damage despite many sub-zero nights.

Here is our stove:


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