# Newel post install, on flooring, or sub flooring?



## joea99 (Aug 27, 2018)

Not sure where to post this question, so here seems a good start.

Installing an interior railing, with cedar 4×4 posts. I need to place two at the top of a set of steps. I researched a bit an settled on Sure-Tite Newel Post Fastener 101-MO.

Looking at the install instructions, they show mounting on finished floor. However, the flooring in an engineered "hand scraped" type, which means the post will tend to rock a bit on the uneven surface.

So, I can cut out a 4×4 section of the flooring to get to a solid sub floor and modify the install dimensions to allow for that. Or, I suppose, I could try to resurface a 4×4 area of the floor to make it "plumb". A bit dicey for my skill set and tools.

Thoughts? Experiences?

Yeah, this should have been thought out before hand, but, it is what it is.


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## Dano46 (Sep 21, 2009)

If I am understanding correctly, and if you have enough post length, why not mortise all the way through the floor. That way you could fasten to floor joists or blocking.


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## joea99 (Aug 27, 2018)

> If I am understanding correctly, and if you have enough post length, why not mortise all the way through the floor. That way you could fasten to floor joists or blocking.
> 
> - Dano46


Only to avoid more work. I will cut the posts from 8 ft lengths, so post length is not an issue.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Through the floor, to joists or blocking. +1


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## joea99 (Aug 27, 2018)

So, I have cut out a "mortise" down to framing, added some blocking, drilled the hole, installed the peg and made the cuts in the post. I know the post bottom is square and even routed out the mortise to get a flat and hopefully squared up bottom.

Yet try as I may, I cannot get the post to not "rock" when it is installed, before cinching it down. That would not bother me so much, except when I torque down on the nut to the point the post feels solidly in place, it is out of plumb by "just so much". That makes it a bit fiddly to cut the rails and minimize the (uneven) "gaps" where the rails meet the posts.

So, rather that spend countless hours nibbling away at the post bottom, hoping for the best, I am considering pouring a thin coat of some self leveling material in the hole in hopes of getting a flat, solid bottom I can count on. But that still leaves a couple variables, so I was also considering using something like JB quick weld in the hole and inserting the post and getting it plumbed up while it sets. First, of course, taping up the bottom of the post so the epoxy does not stick to it and prevent removal, forever.

What say the experts?


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## Ripper70 (Nov 30, 2015)

Tony_S is one resident expert you may want to run this question past. If it's about stairs, he'll have some advice.


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

Is there any other rail coming off the posts besides the stair railing that isn't running parallel to the stair railing?
If there isn't, there's only one way to install the newel's properly/securely and that was mentioned above, fastened to the side of a joist or beam. There's no easy way out for a stand alone newel with one piece of stair railing attached to it.









Pictures of the area would help.


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## joea99 (Aug 27, 2018)

I'm using the term "newel post" as that is the nearest I can come to describing it. It is actually just one post in a railing on the same plane as the other posts, it just has no where else to attach except to the floor, or "deck". While it is adjacent to the stairs, actually only 3 steps plus landing, it will only act as an attachment point for the stair handrail as well as part of the railing.

There will be two rails, with balusters, between it an another post.



















Using a UBS "sure-tite" post fastening setup. What I have done, perhaps foolishly, is shimmed the hole the post sits in, so the post sits plumb. Then "sealed" the bottom of the post and mixed up some jb kwik weld to pour in the hole, inserted the post, checked plumb and calling it good. Once that sets up, I feel it should be fine to cinch down on the fastening nut and the post should not shift.


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

Tough to understand the configuration of the rest of the railing system from your description. 
If there's no other railing coming off that post at 45 to 90 degrees to hold it securely, with one hanger bolt, it's eventually going to wobble. Level or not. Those bolts can work fine with a larger posts, but they're typically not worth a ******************** for smaller posts with a smaller footprint.
If I was in this situation and couldn't half lap the post to the side of a joist(looks like you can't in that position) The post would normally be mounted to a larger steel plate and then the steel plate to the subfloor. Can't do that with the flooring in place. 
Second option if the flooring is in place is to mount the post to a wider piece of shoe and screw the hell out of that to the finished floor. I'm not sure that you're using a shoe?
Third option would be to turn the job down. lol!

If you are going to try the 'sure tight' method alone, I'd at least put two bolts in the bottom of the post, running perpendicular to the connecting handrail and glue it in with PL Premium construction adhesive. Even the sides of the post to the subfloor and hardwood flooring.


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

^This. (best you can do in your situation)
glue it in with PL Premium construction adhesive. Even the sides of the post to the subfloor and hardwood flooring.


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## joea99 (Aug 27, 2018)

Thanks for the input. There will be two 2×4 rails attached at 90 degrees between that post and another 4×4 post that is "side bolted" to rim joists similar to what Tony_s showed above.

I can certainly use the PL premium, but was thinking to avoid that, just in case I needed to replace it for some reason. I do have a Kregs - HD jig that I have am using to pocket screw the 2×4's into the 4×4 posts. I can put a few of those in the post as well, perhaps avoiding using the adhesive?


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

I would use the adhesive and deal with it later if you need to.

You could also add some L-channel to the 4 sides and cover it with a base molding.


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## joea99 (Aug 27, 2018)

Avoid the pocket screws?

Here is a view of what has been done so far.


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