# My first dovetails that I'm not embarrassed to show



## ElizabethL (11 mo ago)

I am a new woodworker-started about a year ago-and I decided that this winter I would master handcut dovetails. I started the week after Christmas and I have been working at it steadily ever since. My first attempts were hilarious. They looked an angry beaver had attacked the board.

After watching tons of videos, cutting I-don't-know-how-many boards, and investing in a new chisel, I finally have a box that Doesn't Totally Suck.

Does it have gaps? It does! Does it wobble a little bit? You betcha! But is is reasonably square and immediately recognizable as a dovetailed box? It certainly is!

I'm proud as punch, and since my family has politely asked that I place some limits on just how much I talk about dovetails, I decided to should share it with people likely to understand.

I look forward to getting to know this group and welcome any feedback or suggestions for improvement!


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## redlee (Apr 11, 2016)

Looking like your getting the hang of it, nice job.


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## EarlS (Dec 21, 2011)

They look a lot better than any attempt at hand cut dovetails I would make. I use the Leigh dovetail jig. It's cheating, but I'm OK with that. As for wobble and gaps - well that's what glue is for.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

You came to the right place. In here we all talk about stuff that others just don't understand. Gaps don't look bad on here.


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## BB1 (Jan 29, 2016)

Welcome to LJ. You'll love it here. 
And, any little gaps are just a place for a some glue and sawdust.


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## GR8HUNTER (Jun 13, 2016)

as said you need gaps for glue THEY look very nice to me and we will talk your ear off about dovetails LOL

*GREAT JOB :<))))))*


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

Looks great. As Paul Sellers once pointed out in some antique. The drawers had gappy joints, and the thing was probably 150 years old, and he showed one of his students dovetails that were a bit gappy. He said, they don't look perfect but it will still last a century or two! People today want perfection for instagram photos when it really doesn't matter. Japanese craftsman use amazing joinery techniques that you can't even see! Because the mindset is different, they want a joint they can trust.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

Looks great. It helps to practice with woods that are friendly. Popular,soft maple even walnut can be your friend because it's stable and dark woods hide gaps.  You'll soon learn all the tricks from endeavoring to persevere.
Good Luck


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

Oh no ! looks like bandit571 better sharpen up his act, ... Dovetail Lizzie's in town!

May be a dovetail saw for each member of the family at Christmas!
Proud as punch? ...and so you should be! ... Well Done ElizabethL


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## ElizabethL (11 mo ago)

Ha! Dovetail Lizzie-I love it!

Thanks for warm welcome and all of your kind words.

I've been using poplar so far, since it's easy to get at the big home store. I tried working with some scrap oak this afternoon and it was a whole new challenge! The wood kept tearing out when I tried to cut away the waste l. Looked awful. I think I'm going to get some maple and get a little more experience before I tackle oak.

Thanks again, and see you all around!


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

If the oak is tearing out, consider testing the sharpness of your tools. Since everyone loves unsubstantiated statistics, I'll say that 90% of successful handwork is sharp tools. Your layout, sawing and chisel skills are probably good enough to do complex joinery on any wood and it's the sharpening skills holding you back.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

Good for you. Those don't look to bad for starts.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

Also, if it makes you feel any better, I go to the point where my hand cut dovetails looked pretty good. I was so excited that my next few projects i managed to make every mistake I didn't know was possible. Cut tails where pins should be and pins where tails should be, cut the wrong "waste" side of lines, flipped the board the wrong way and cut the angles opposite on the other end. Its like my skill progressed and I lost brain cells as I gained skill, lol.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> The wood kept tearing out when I tried to cut away the waste l. Looked awful. I think I m going to get some maple and get a little more experience before I tackle oak.
> 
> Thanks again, and see you all around!
> 
> - ElizabethL


Some of the things you learn from experience is knowing what the wood is going to do. Its similar to mountain biking on a rutted out mountain. If you try to avoid the rut, you are eventually going to hit it and crash. With wood I have found that its going to split and do things based on grain and grain direction etc. with experience you can kind of predict what its going to do and attempt to control it. Like instead of chiseling out all the waste, you may need to cut some extra saw kerfs so the split has nowhere else to go but that kerf.


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## rad457 (Jun 15, 2013)

Can be very relaxing and satisfying or VERY Frustrating, usually I end up cutting the first set off but by the last corner they look perfect! (Too me at least) I was taught by a true Master but after seeing my limited abilities showed me some tricks Stop by some day an I will pass them on? The only way to make them nicer is to to make a whole lot more.


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## Peteybadboy (Jan 23, 2013)

Liz

Welcome. I think you did just fine.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

I like it, nothing better than a dovetail that fits tight. Of course that means nothing worse than the wood splitting when you fit them together.


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

This is rather good.

two important things: marking and chiseling.

about marking: the concept of "knifewall 
[URL]https://paulsellers.com/2017/12/whats-knifewall/ 
The last picture shows how the marking provides a registration for paring.

chiseling: work with sensitivity
from 9'39[/URL] />




brute force gives rough results.

removing the rocking
from about 48" 





practice practice practice…


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## ElizabethL (11 mo ago)

Thanks for the tips on oak! I really struggle with sharpening-I'm still figuring out out the whole [waves arms wildly] thing. I'm pretty good at learning from videos and websites, but I may need a class on sharpening so someone can guide me through it and help me recognize when my chisels are sharp enough and when they need more work, plus how to sharpen correctly.

I expect to learn so much here! Thanks again.


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## johnstoneb (Jun 14, 2012)

Dove tails are looking pretty good just practice and each time they will get better. I forced myself to learn to hand cut dovetails before I let myself by a PC dovetail jig. I find if I just have a few dovetails to cut it is easier and faster to cut them by hand and just use the jig If I have a lot of them to cut.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> Thanks for the tips on oak! I really struggle with sharpening-I m still figuring out out the whole [waves arms wildly] thing. I m pretty good at learning from videos and websites, but I may need a class on sharpening so someone can guide me through it and help me recognize when my chisels are sharp enough and when they need more work, plus how to sharpen correctly.
> 
> I expect to learn so much here! Thanks again.
> 
> - ElizabethL


Honestly, I know people love to get everything free and think you can find anything on youtube for free. Which may be true if you have time to sift through all the worthless crap and overly long annoying intros etc. to find a good tip here and there. I did that and got the point where I could sharpen pretty well, or "good enough". I then decided to buy Richard Maguire's (who calls himself an ordinary guy with really sharp tools) videos on sharpening and it was quite eye opening, i learned a TON and wish I had bought it when i first started, would have saved me hours and hours:

https://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/sharpening-hand-tools/


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## Yonda (Dec 28, 2021)

I am in the same boat as you Liz, I started woodworking within the last 2 years. I love it!! I too just did my first dove tail project that didn't totally suck, but, I did showoff all my trial and errors, check it out. I have a dove tail jig and it was still very difficult to accomplish.

Best wishes in your future projects. --- Yolanda


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

Liz,
Sharpening is a journey and a costly one at that. I had wet stones and they work but what a God awful mess, it made me put off sharpening. PSA paper on float glass works but not for long. Right now diamond plates rock for plane irons and free hand and Work Sharp for chisels. Check with me next month and I will have found the next great thing. Need any gently used sharpening stuff?

I think you have the technique down, next up is getting things sharp. I also strop a lot more than I used to.


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## MPython (Nov 30, 2018)

Those look great, a lot better than my early dovetails, for sure. One thing you might want to do is to carefully plane the ends ot the pins and tails flush with the box sides with a very sharp hand plane, preferably a low angle one. Planing cleans up the joint and actually reduces or eliminates gaps by spreading the wood fibers to fill them in. I think you will find these dovetails are better than you think they are if you plane them flush.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

What method do you use to sharpen? Mention sharpening on this site and get ready for the Tsunami of suggestions.


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## drsurfrat (Aug 17, 2020)

You did great, glad you were proud enough to post it. And your description had me smiling. And join in on the "well traveled" threads and you will pick up more tips.


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## ElizabethL (11 mo ago)

My sharpening method so far is the MPower FastTrack gizmo: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081QW73ZR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I went this route because I read so many warnings to hold the chisel at the right angle when sharpening. The FastTrack does this for you. I strongly considered buying one of those chiseling sharpening jigs plus diamond plates, but when I did the math the cost turned out to be about the same as the FastTrack. It has decent reviews online and seemed relatively goof-proof.

Controlfreak, honestly, I've been put off by sharpening from the start. I had no idea it was so darn critical to the work, and I kind of resent it! Sharpening is a totally different skill, and it seems so odd that when you say "I want to learn woodworking with hand tools!" the first thing experts say is, "Great! Let's start with some metal work!" It's as if, when I took up knitting, the knitting pros had said, "Great! Here's a wood lathe so you can turn your own needles!" (I'm working on my attitude at the same time I work on my skillset.)

Any sharpening wisdom is appreciated, without opening a big ole can of worms!

SMP, I'll check out that link! I'm happy to pay for good content that will teach me something.

MPython, I think you're right, and I haven't finished this box at all. I'm still working on my planing skills, but this is a practice piece, so I'll practice!

Yolanda, oh, I'm using a dovetail jig! Wouldn't go without it! I took a look at some of your projects, and they are simply lovely. I look forward from learning from you!


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

I feel the same way about sharpening I hate it. It is a necessity though. I was concerned about the correct angle when I first started that's why I went with the worksharp 3000 for the fool proofness of it. That's the first time I've seen the mpower system. The test if you have them sharp enough if you can shave a hair off your arm. There's many methods of sharpening. So what ever gets you to that razor sharp edge. Go with it.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

It seems like sharpening for me got better when the following happened.

I am not sure if it needs it but I am going to re-sharpen anyway. When I made my sharpening method quick, clean and readily available my tools stayed sharp. It really doesn't matter what method works for you but when you can just reach for it rather than do back flips, things change.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

> I feel the same way about sharpening I hate it. It is a necessity though. I was concerned about the correct angle when I first started that s why I went with the worksharp 3000 for the fool proofness of it. That s the first time I ve seen the mpower system. The test if you have them sharp enough if you can shave a hair off your arm. There s many methods of sharpening. So what ever gets you to that razor sharp edge. Go with it.
> 
> - corelz125


I can't remember you but there was a guy on YouTube that said "I used to shave the hair on the back of my hand until I buried the blade in the skin". Had to get sewed up.


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## 987Ron (Apr 9, 2020)

Well those are nice looking and a proud time. Lots of options on how to, etc. Pick what works for you and have fun. You seem to be having fun and that is the most important item in this whole thing.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> I.
> 
> Sharpening is a totally different skill, and it seems so odd that when you say "I want to learn woodworking with hand tools!" the first thing experts say is, "Great! Let s start with some metal work!" It s as if, when I took up knitting, the knitting pros had said, "Great! Here s a wood lathe so you can turn your own needles!" (I m working on my attitude at the same time I work on my skillset.)


Well, you can tell Abe Lincoln was a hand tool woodworker when he said "if I had 6 hours to chop down a tree, I would spend the first 4 sharpening my axe" and his axe must have been A2 steel.


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## BlasterStumps (Mar 13, 2017)

ElizabethL writes: "and since my family has politely asked that I place some limits on just how much I talk about dovetails, I decided to should share it with people likely to understand."

I love this part. Just about any hobby or serious interest usually gets a similar response from those that live close. If you think talking about dovetails can glass their eyes over, try talking astronomy, astrobiology, meteoritics, or meteorology with them. : )


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## ElizabethL (11 mo ago)

> If you think talking about dovetails can glass their eyes over, try talking astronomy, astrobiology, meteoritics, or meteorology with them. : )


BlasterStumps, been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I'm married to an organic chemist who is a beer nerd and owns a 3d printer. I've listened to hours about polymers, hops and incorporating raspberry pi chips into printed projects. We just try not to overwhelm one another and, after 25+ years, can tell when the other person is reaching their limit. With dovetails, I had reached it.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> If you think talking about dovetails can glass their eyes over, try talking astronomy, astrobiology, meteoritics, or meteorology with them. : )
> 
> BlasterStumps, been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I m married to an organic chemist who is a beer nerd and owns a 3d printer. I ve listened to hours about polymers, hops and incorporating raspberry pi chips into printed projects. We just try not to overwhelm one another and, after 25+ years, can tell when the other person is reaching their limit. With dovetails, I had reached it.
> 
> - ElizabethL


Buy him a Shaper Origin and download the dovetail files, or show him some of the other cool joinery you can make with the Origin


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