# Shopsmith or table saw



## Elvin (Feb 3, 2009)

Hello gang,
I am trying to decide between a fold up table saw or a shopsmith 5in1 saw for cabinet making in a two car garage, one man shop. I don't have a drill press and I was looking at a combination disk and belt sander. I know the shopsmith has a large disk sander and a drillpress.
If you have used a shopsmith for cabinets what trouble or benefits if any did you have?
Any pros or cons would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
El


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## kosta (Mar 20, 2009)

personally I would never get a shop smith just because your really limited in the size of materials that you can feed through it without having to move other stuff around. I really hate having to set up a tool every time I want to use it so there is another issue with something like a shop smith or a combo machine.


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## THOMRIDER (Dec 31, 2009)

well just to weigh in if you have a limited amount of space and dont mind a few minutes of setup time, then the Shopsmith is a good choice. I have built cabinets and bookshelves with my shopsmith 510 also you can find a used shopsmith for very little money on ebay or craigslist sites. also you will have 5 machines not just a tablesaw. i use the horizontal drill press for somethings but the lathe and saw are the main ones I use along with an addes bandsaw.

good luck and which ever you go with I hope it works for you

Shopsmith for Me but not everyone


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## stevepeterson (Dec 17, 2009)

There must be a reason why so many of them are always for sale on CL. If they worked so great, then why is everyone trying to get rid of them?

I can only recall seeing one person online talking about how great they are. The funny thing is that he had 3 or 4 of them. One was always set up as a table saw, one as a lathe, one as a drill press, etc.

The biggest downside appears to be that you will spend more time re-configuring it than you will spend using it. And the table saw has a really small table.


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## Tuuek (Jan 2, 2009)

Well I cant speak for anyone else but I love my Shopsmith. Having been in the US Air Force where I had to travel quite a bit in the 20+ years I needed something versatile and easy to setup. I was fortunate when I was able to buy one from a guy whose father had died and left it for him to sell because it needed work. I have a 1955 model and the only thing it required was a new drive belt, adjustment and the 30 yrs of sawdust removed. I built a couple of entertainment centers with it as well as a host of other things over the years. Yes it takes a bit more planning then if you have all the equipment set up ready to go but for the money it is an awesome tool. The drill press is great and it doubles as a drum sander and I can use it vertical or horizontal. The 12" sanding disc is awesome. I have the jig saw attachment which is a scroll saw was a god send before I received one as a gift. Oh and it is a lathe as well. Ok now the table saw portion. Here I have a few observations based on my experience. The Shopsmith is not a cabinet saw and will not have the speed of a cabinet saw. Because mine is an old model it only has a 3/4hp motor and will not handle some of the jobs that a 2+hp will. I haven't found anything I can not cut with it but I have had to learn to be careful on some of the hardwoods as not to force it. I don't recommend using it to cut 4×8 plywood but yes I have done so many times with the help of runners on the sides. I can talk all day on it because I love my SS. It comes down to what you ultimately want out of your tool purchase. If the only thing you need is to cut wood, then perhaps the table saw is more for you. However, if you want a tool that has multiple functions with a little setup and takes up a small footprint then the SS is your beast. As for the number for sale, there is usually a story behind why it is being sold and I have yet to meet anyone who sold theirs due to it being a piece of junk. I hope my litany helps.


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

Hmmm, it really depends on you. As you can see from comments so far, some love them and some can't stand them.
I have had a ShopSmith Mark V for 27 years and finally got a real table saw last year. I never came across a cut I couldn't make with my ShopSmith. Then again, I enjoyed the problem solving. You do need to appreciate the limitations and use the tool correctly.
I spent 18 years woodworking out of a 2 car garage - that held 2 cars (and lawnmower, bicycles, yard care items, etc). If you need to tuck your tools into a corner and use your garage as a garage it is hard to beat the compact space of a ShopSmith. It takes up about the same space as a couple bicycles. If you intend to set up a wood shop and leave the tools ready to use the ShopSmith loses some of its advantage. It still provides a lot of tools in a small space.
As mentioned above, cutting sheets of plywood is probably the trickiest, but that is true on a cabinet saw as well - unless you have extensions and an outfeed table. My new saw has extensions and a decent outfeed table and I still get help making the first cut. A better solution is to make the first cut or two with a straightedge and a hand held power saw. After that, a table saw or a ShopSmith works fine.
I have never felt the need to buy a drill press, lathe or disc sander. The ShopSmith meets all my needs for these tools. I rarely use it as a horizontal boring machine, but when I have done so it is fantastic.
If you are willing to go through some set up when you change tools and you need to save space or tuck your tools into a corner the ShopSmith is a great solution.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

I think the shopsmith is great! if you are limited in space or budget it's a great way to get things going, and have something that works, and works well.

however , I feel that the TS setting of the shopsmith is limited compared to a stand alone TS with a tilting blade and a larger table surface, and with todays saw - better safety devices and standard miter slots - all these are limitations of the SS when used as a TS.

I'd go with a stand alone TS and a SS to accomodate it as a drill press, doring machine, lathe and sander. best of both worlds.


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

With limited space and budget, a Shopsmith is a real workhorse… I have a real distaste for them based on the table saw part though. As I understand it, the saw table tilts in relation to the blade instead of tilting the blade, and that seems extremely unsafe to me. Which is why I don't own a Shopsmith…


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## LittlePaw (Dec 21, 2009)

FYI: I do have an almost brand new SS for sale. It is the 50th Anniversary Edition w/no dings or rust, everything works as new. It came with SS bandsaw attachment, 3 TS extensions, disk sander, lathe, and of course it can be used as drill press or horizontal boring machine. It has mobile casters and moves around really easily. By now, I'm sure you know all about the versatility the SS offers. For my needs, I really need a stand alone TS, a drill press and band saw that I can just walk up and use. If you are interested and come and get it, please make me an offer. Also if you want to see what it looks like, I can take some pix and post them or email them to you.


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## hairy (Sep 23, 2008)

I remember the early days of New Yankee Workshop, Norm had a Shopsmith. It wasn't all he had, but it got some airtime. He would put tape over the nameplate. It's amazing what some folks have done with one. You will be limited more by your imagination, than the machine.


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## botanist (Sep 17, 2008)

I own a very old Shopsmith and the versatility you get with it is nice, I'd rather have a dedicated cabinet saw with modern safety features. The table saw part is the most annoying part because of 1) the size of the table is too small for wider cuts (anything about 5-6 inches wide), and 2) the fence which is incredibly unreliable. I don't know how the fence works on the newer versions, but my fence skews as you tighten it in place. I constantly have to check to make sure it's parallel to the blade. If you want a Shopsmith, make sure you get a newer one that will be more powerful (I have to feed my wood through at a ridiculously slow pace) and that might have more modern safety features (like blade guards and dust collection).


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

I've owned a Shopsmith for 30 years. I use it every day. The darned thing won't wear out. With the aid of a couple of roller stands, I can rip any length I can get in the shop. I've cut full sheets of 3/4 ply without a hitch. Too old for that any more, though. Now I break it down first.
That machine has helped me build at least 12 kitchens of cabinets, many book cases and, lots of other case work.
The lathe is very good as is the drill press. I love the disk sander and the ability to do horizontal boring. 
All that being said, There's no way I'll cut a 45 bevel or any other table tilting saw operation. But, the tilting table is a definite asset when using the disk sander, horizontal borer , or the drill press. (Think pocket screws)
If you are not making a living with it, it's a very viable option to a free standing table saw that only CUTS wood.
Gene


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## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

I began my woodworking activities with a Shopsmith many years ago and I have slowly transitioned from it to other tools, but the Shopsmith remains in my shop and I still use it for a number of functions, primarily horizontal boring and with the belt sander accessory.

The shopsmith is a very good drill press and it is acceptable as a light weight lathe. The bandsaw accessory is good but small. The belt sander accessory is very good. The jointer accessory is okay but it is only a 4" jointer.

In my opinion, the Shopsmith's greatest weakness is when you use it as a table saw. Tilting the table instead of tilting the blade is a real hassle. I have the 510 version and I find the fence to be unacceptable. You just can't set it precisely. Furthermore, it is very difficult (from my experience) to adjust the fence to be truly parallel to the blade.

If I were starting out today and I had very limited shop space, I would probably get the Shopsmith but if more space is available, I would probably not. If you are using all of the 2 car garage, you don't need a Shopsmith. With the money you would pay for a new Shopsmith you could easily buy a reasonably good table saw, drill press, jointer and bench top sander with money to spare for one or more of a lathe, miter saw and/or thickness planer.


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## Elvin (Feb 3, 2009)

Thank you everyone for your input. You have really given me some insight on the Shopsmith and its strengths and weaknesses. Lumberjocks is really great and I for one am really happy we have this group.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I've never owned a shop smith because the idea of setting up and breaking down for each use never appealed to me. But I know lots of folks like them. I would say if your limited on space and are willing to take down an set the different operations it might be ok. but the table saw is very small an at best it must only be good for small projects. So if you have room get a real table saw it's the main tool in a woodshop


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## bunkie (Oct 13, 2009)

Why are there so many ShopSmiths for sale? That's a good question. One of the primary reasons is that they have been around for almost 60 years and they are exceptionally well-made. That guarantees a large supply of them on the used market.

There are three distinct versions of the Mark V (as those of us who own them refer to the beasts): The 500, 510 and 520. All are essentially the same basic machine and differ only in the tables and fences. The 500 has a very small table that can't be expanded. It's fence is not very good. The 510 has a larger table and a series of extension tubes and floating tables that can be configured a number of different ways. Its fence is better than that of the 510. The 520 uses the same tables as the 510, but has a better system of extruded rails on the tables that work with a much-improved fence that is rock-solid.

The other absolutely huge Mark V advantage is it's ability to be stored in a very small space. If you're space challenged, nothing beats it.

Finally, any Mark V can be upgraded to the latest 520 version. There's even a new version of the headstock (the motor mechanism) that has a new more powerful, electronically-controlled motor. Keeping with company philosophy, the first released version will be the upgrade kit for existing Mark Vs. In other words, existing customers are being given priority over new customers. That's not all that common these days.


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## Beginningwoodworker (May 5, 2008)

I would get a stand alone table saw.


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## surfin2 (Oct 24, 2009)

If you are a perfectionist, than a shop smith is not for you


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## scottj (Mar 15, 2009)

Elvin, 
You will see that this post will surely get alot of attention. I have never used a Shopsmith and prob never will since I have individual tools. Sometimes I have limited time for the shop so I like the idea of minimal setup time. If you have limited space then the Shopsmith will be good for you. Starting out it will give you several tools in one and that is economical. They also look to be very good as a lathe so if you were to get individual tools down the road you could leave it setup as a lathe.


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## Elvin (Feb 3, 2009)

Jim, bunkie, Beginningwoodworker, Rick, And Scott,
Thank you for helping me out, I appricate your thoughts.
El


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## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

Just an FYI - - Soon ShopSmith will be offering a new power head. It will have more power, electronic speed control and it will even run in reverse. It will be available as an upgrade for existing ShopSmiths and it will become the standard power head on new sales. IMO - this will greatly enhance the appeal of ShopSmith.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Talking about this kind of multifunctions machine I have a question: 
Why are 5 operations , 3 motors machines not more popular in this country?
In Europe you see them every where. 
They are real porfessionnal machines, not hobby machines.
I have one in France and I love it.
Thank you.


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## Abbott (May 10, 2009)

To much setup time for me. I like to walk over to a machine, flip a switch and make a cut.


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## Milo (Apr 24, 2009)

Elvin,

I started with an old 500, but grew into a Delta Unisaw, and a Ridgid Tablesaw (dedicated to dado and rabbit cuts now). You mentioned making cabinets with the Shopsmith. I knew a guy in Florida that bought an SS just for this very thing, but I don't think it worked out because of the tablesaw.It's just not big enough to cut plywood correctly. And I don't care what the SS website shows right up front either.

NOW, that said, I LOVE my SS for the other things it does. right now it's set up for mortising. But I also use the lathe, boring function, scrollsaw, disk sander ect ect. Plus customer support at SS is second to none. Well, except for the nice ladies at Beissmeyer. They were very cool… ;-)

SO, IF you are going to cut large sheets of ply for cabinets, get a tablesaw, BUT shop around and I'll bet you could get a cheap used SS on Craigslist or Ebay, and I'll bet you won't regret it.

My 2 cents.


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## LittlePaw (Dec 21, 2009)

That's a good question, Bert. Let's hear some answers.


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## 8iowa (Feb 7, 2008)

I think it's pretty well understood that if your space is small, and/or has to do double duty with cars, boats, lawn mowers, ect. The Shopsmith simply cannot be beat by any other tool. About 40% of Shopsmith users work in 200 sq ft or less. The beauty of the Shopsmith is that it has been engineered to be highly adaptable, and in fact does some things that other tools cannot. For that reason, many woodworkers who graduate to larger shops keep their Shopsmith for specific tasks.

There are a lot of complaints about the small table. These comments should be addressed to the original model 500. The newer 510's and 520's have a much larger table and better front and rear locking fences. Yes, the table tilts. If you do bevels day in and day out this is a disadvantage. But consider the advantage of having a variable speed saw for burn sensitive woods and plastics.

Cutting 4'x 8' sheets is a difficult task that can't be done easily on a great many table saws. It's not fair to single out the Shopsmith in this regard. That being said, my Shopsmith has more than 50" ripping capacity, and with a helper, (often my wife) I have cut a lot of plywood. The "set-up" takes about 10 minutes, involving the floating and extension tables, support legs, and two roller stands. While this is not as quick and convenient as doing this task in a large shop with a fixed cabinet saw, the bottom line, none-the-less, is that a guy working out of limited space in his garage or driveway can cut 4'x 8' sheets - and do it with precision.

I think it is curious that someone mentioned that because there are so many Shopsmiths for sale, that this must indicate some disadvantage or dissatisfaction. I guess you could also say the same for a lot of Craftsman tools. Seriously, there are more than ½ million Shopsmiths of all models, that have been made since 1950. This machine "outlives" its owners. Many are now in the hands of a third generation, and to Shopsmith's credit, they still support the model 500 machines that were manufactured as far back as the mid '50's. In addition, even the oldest 500 can be upgraded to the latest 520 configuration.

I would invite those above who are skeptical to see a 520 put thru its paces.


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## bunkie (Oct 13, 2009)

I have to take issue with the comment about the ShopSmith not being a precision tool. First of all, it's not true. The ShopSmith is capable of very high levels of precision. With a combination of understanding, technique and a small inexpensive accessory (the ShopSmith Stop Collar) precision is simply not an issue.

One long-time criticism of the Mark V is that tablesaw depth-of-cut is set by adjusting table height (as the blade height is fixed). This can be tricky as you have to learn to finesse the crank for the table height and it's lock. The answer is to spend the $25 or so that the stop collar costs. It allows you to adjust table height in 1/64s by turning a knurled knob.

BTW, I can confirm what 8iowa wrote. You can cut full sheets of plywood on the Mark V. I've often done it. And unlike with regular table saws, the 50" rip capability doesn't carry the price of making the saw take up a huge space. I also have a Grizzley 1023SL and I simply can''t afford the room to permanently mount a 50" fence rail kit. My SS does this job when I need this capability.

If you're the sort of person who thinks creatively, the unique features of the Mark V can be very rewarding. Here's an example: you can make small adjustments of fence-to-blade distance by using the quill. Furthermore, you can use the quill-stop feature to set the outer limits on these adjustments. It's great with a dado blade. Why move the fence when you can really finesse things with the quill?


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## reible (Feb 7, 2008)

Hi,

I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet but there are a lot of us shopsmith junkies out here and well we love our shopsmiths. Not everyone gets it even if they buy one but we that do sure have a heck of a good time enjoying them.

I got a new one back in 1976, still have it and have made use of the upgrade path to make it a 520. I've added a Jointech saw train system (designed for the 520) so I can make repeatable cuts down to thousands of an inch… just in case you happen to need that…. and have a lot of extra money. I have a lots of attachments for it, some purchased some hand made, and it is just a lot of fun seeing all that you can do with it.  It must be that creative spirit I have but I'm always coming up with new ways of enjoying my machine.

I've added two more machines so that when they pull tools out of my cold clenched hands each of my kids will have a shopsmith. The great part is you can still work on them, just like the old days with cars… and that is where the support comes in. You have a problem you can give shopsmith a call and actual get help from someone sitting in OH. How great is that? BTW most of your calling will be order new goodies… also addictive.

Here are a few places to visit that might shed some light on what it means to own one.
a fan:
http://www.songofthegreatlakes.com/shopsmith.htm
older site that is not to busy but still has a lot of knowledge in back post and present members:
http://www.ssug.org/
a really old site on yahoo that is still very active:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SSusers/
the current hot site:
http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/

The last three sites have in total of over 13,000 members, some over lap of course but as you can see there are still a few of us around and we are a very sharing and caring group, hard to beat support of fellow owners.

Of course we are bias towards the shopsmith, it is in our nature.

However a shopsmith is not a good fit for everyone and not everyone that gets one will fall in love with them so do all your research and pick out what fits your needs best. My brother had an old rockwell table saw the motor went out on it, the motor shop said $400, he said for-get-it and stopped at ace and got table saw for less then a $100. He makes 800 to 1200 bird houses a year, the saw is on its second season, he's happy with it but had to buy another blade this year…. It is what makes you happy not us.

Ed


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## dusty2 (Jan 4, 2009)

I have to work real hard to remain civil in some of this postings about the pros and cons of a Shopsmith. I have had one for twenty years and it serves me well even with its tiny tilting main table. Oh wait a minute, I don't have a tiny table - my Shopsmith isn't sixty years old. Mine is only twenty - it has one of the larger table. Yes, it tilts but I don't understand the problem with that. It has to tilt if I want to cut beveled edges.

Using the Shopsmith is really a pain whenever I go to the shop hell bent to get something built yesterday. But then I hardly ever do that. Being hell bent to do anything in the shop is just asking for trouble. Slow down a bit and think about what you are doing and changeovers just seem to happen. I needed a break from being hell bent anyhow. It is safer when you take your time and think things through.

Yes, I would love to have a Unisaw in my shop but if I did there wouldn't be room for much else. That is the price we pay for not having more than but 300 - 400 square feet of shop space. Oh yeah, did I mention the car.

The only comments in a discussion like this that really sets me off is the guy who says "I wouldn't have one of those on my property. Don't buy that, get yourself a real saw". And then I find out that he has never had one and might not even know one if he saw it. It is fine to have an opinion but please let it be based on some authentic personal experience. It's real easy to say "I don't know if the Shopsmith is any good or not. I have never used one".

It doesn't even bother me when someone says "No, I don't really find the Shopsmith suitable for my needs. I do a lot of work that demands precision along with the ability to support sheet goods. I seldom have a helper and I just can't handle those 4×8 sheets of 3/4" mdf on a Shopsmith. I prefer my Sawstop".

Enough of this. I'm going out to clean up the saw dust I made yesterday.


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## 8iowa (Feb 7, 2008)

Putting the above negative comments aside, the original question was "table saw or Shopsmith". As a table saw, the Shopsmith falls into a rather large group of saws designed to run on a common household 120V receptacle. This is the class of saws that the Shopsmith should be compared to, not the larger and higher HP saws that require special electrical considerations.

Blade manufacturers commonly refer to saws that are sized to common household current as being "underpowered". Therefore they wisely recommend thin kerf blades. While the Shopsmith beats most of their competition on ripping capacity and precision, it also offers two other advantages;

One - the ease of changing blades. On many saws this is such a task that some type of combination blade is just usually left in place. On the Shopsmith, if you need to make fine crosscuts, or cut laminates, or rip an 8/4 piece of oak, you can quickly and easily change to the proper blade. This can make a world of difference. This blade changing ability also applies to the dado blade as well.

Two - variable speed. As the speed is decreased, the cutting torque increases. While a fixed speed saw might bog down and trip the breaker on a tough ripping cut, you can decrease the speed of the Shopsmith, and have the torque to do the job. You must also decrease your feed rate, as there is no HP increase. This might mean 30 seconds to make a rip cut instead of 20 on a more powerful saw - no big deal for the home shop woodworker.

Yeah! The table tilts. How often do we need to have this thrown at us. At least you can do bevels on the Shopsmith, and they will be precise.


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## DaveSchmitt (Feb 16, 2020)

I started using my dads Shopsmith back in 1968, I later inherited it. It was a 500. I sold it and bought a 510 for $750 and have since bought a second 510 for $350. I love the larger table on the 510, 520, and the 7. I can safely handle a full sheet of plywood. If you shop carefully on Craigs list you should be able to find one of the above models with a jointer band saw dust collector and belt sander for under 2 grand. I mounted my extra components on shelves on the wall and use Pulleys to lift them up. I'd buy a saw stop for its safety but don't have the room.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

My Dad had the very first edition of a Shop Smith. What a PITA. I never wanted one and only used his for the last lathe project I've ever done. Dad passed away in 97 and after Mom's house fire last summer I got to haul that beast to my house. I've since sold it and haven't missed it at all. I much prefer my stationary tools.


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