# Sawstop - feel stupid



## mbs (May 8, 2010)

I've been looking for a used sawstop Professional Cabinet Saw for several years. I rarely see a local used saw and when I do find one the owner is asking almost full price.

So, I see this ad on craigslist.

"The 10" Saw Stop Industrial Cabinet Saw has everything you'd want in a saw: precision, heavy-duty construction, a great dust collection system, and the revolutionary safety feature that stops the blade the instant that a body part contacts the blade. The model CB53230 is an industrial grade table saw and comes equipped with a 5 Hp, 3 phase motor, a heavy cast iron table, precision fence, widely spaced trunnion assembly, over-sized arbor bearings, a powder coated enclosed base, and an extra wide table surface for oversized lumber. This saw will last a lifetime.

Asking $2900 firm (Cashiers Check or Credit Card only)

The saw offered has never been used and is still in the factory wrap and skid, pics below are saws that we currently have in use. "










I wasn't really looking for the Industrial model but, I think 'wow, what a good deal, an industrial cabinet saw that's never been used with an HTC outfeed table and beismeyer dust collection blade guard for $2900. But it has a 3 ph motor! - ugh!

I decided to call the guy. He said he bought 4 saws for his business and he only used 3 of them. I ask him if he'd take $2550 for everything except the 3 ph motor and I would replace the motor with a 1 ph motor for $350. He was a very nice person and he took the offer.

When I picked up the saw the owner said it was a 2008 model and it was on a pallet with some plastic wrap. I really didnt care about the year and I didn't inspect it closely. I got it home and wanted to get a mobile base. I was expecting to pay around $150 but for the Industrial saw they're $300 (ouch!, but they're very nice). I was talking to the rep at the store and told him about my deal. He wanted to trade me the beismeyer dust collector arm for a sawstop arm. I wanted the sawstop arm so I traded. I also bought the upgrade kit for the dust collector.

I got it home and installed everything. I tested the mobile base and love it. I started cleaning and waxing the machine At this point I'm having a 5-star day thinking I've saved about 40% off a new machine. As I was waxing the machine I read the name plate - "Professional Cabinet Saw". The wind came out of my sails quickly.

There's about a $650 difference between the Industrial saw and the Professional saw. I didnt feel like the seller did anything intentional so I decided to call him and work something out. Basically, he said that the word "Industrial" was used just to point out that it's not a hobby model and he paid more than $4000 for the setup. He had another buyer for the saw and wouldn't negotiate the price.

Bottome line - I got a nice saw for about $600 less than retail but it's not the screaming deal I thought I was getting. He listed the model number in the ad and didn't even think about researching it. Note to self "do your homework"


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## semi75 (Jun 17, 2010)

I noticed the model number wasn't ICS as I was reading your add, kinda bites but bas long as it works you are ok. I didn't see anything intentionally misleading in the add but I can see how you jumped to thinking ics. The 100 extra for the ICS mobile base would rather bite though unless you are thrilled with the hydraulic base. Well, how do you like your new saw? That's the important part.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

This is one of those live and learn situations. It's not worth suing over, and you still got a good deal. But I know how you feel, I've been there…


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## mikedddd (Jul 22, 2009)

Your saw is the big SawStop first generation, at that time SawStop only made one model. Model # CB whatever first generation, the next generation Model # is ICS whatever. The PCS models didn't come out until about two years ago. Go to the review section of this forum and look at the SawStop saws the PCS models have the motor cover on the left side of the machine while the ICS or older CB models have the motor cover on the right hand side of the machine. The PCS was never offered with a 5hp motor. For what its worth I have the same saw in my shop except single phase, when I bought mine SawStop only made the one model, but offered a few different motors for it.


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## mikedddd (Jul 22, 2009)

Here you go you can download the owners manual from the SawStop website for your saw. 
http://www.sawstop.com/support/industrial-cabinet-saw/


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## semi75 (Jun 17, 2010)

Good info Mike, I guess doing your homework can also help you avoid stress.


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## mbs (May 8, 2010)

It's not worth going to court over. I'm happy with the purchase ….. just not elated!

The saw is beautiful. I still have to purchase the single phase motor. I'll place the order tomorrow and hope it arrives before Thanksgiving or at least by Sat.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

It sounds like you still got a pretty good deal. From what I've seen, the PCS is a well liked saw. Someone told me that popular accessories won't fit on the ICS without modification, i.e., router table, etc. You may have inadvertently done yourself a favor!


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## mikedddd (Jul 22, 2009)

mbs I don't think you read my post above. If the saw you bought is model # CB 5320 then you have an Industrial Cabinet saw. Also if your still not sure measure the top the PCS saws have a top that is 27" deep while the ICS and the CB saws have top that is 30" deep, thats why as Al said above that some things such as cast iron router tables won't fit in the big saws without some modification.


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## SeaWitch (Nov 5, 2011)

I understand your disappointment, but I still think it's a pretty good deal. And I agree with cr1-I don't think it's worth pursuing….Enjoy your new saw. ;o)


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## reggiek (Jun 12, 2009)

I've had a few of those moments…..makes me feel like a complete idiot…now a days I do alot of research…but there is still the chance of a gotcha. There are just too many statistics, limits, sizes, etc…etc..on any one machine…trying to keep it all straight is a task more for a computer…..then if you are comparing other machines….it gets even more convoluted.

You still got a good deal though….Sawstop does not discount (like Festool also). You will not find their tools for less then every retailer sells them for (unless used). Since you got a saw that had not been used (basically new) for a discount…you did good.

I think the seller's faux pas was due to the 3ph….most folks consider 3ph as a commercial or "industrial" setup….he probably did not realize that there was a difference in models using that term. At least that is what I would suspect. I do not see any reason here to sue….he listed the model number…his add was somewhat misleading…but certainly not fraudulent. Consumer law would be more useful as it holds business's to a higher standard when selling to consumers (business to business - the buyer is held to a much higher standard…and really better read the contracts or bill of sale). Depending on your location, there might be what is called a cool down period, but as you are comfortable with the purchase (even though not the great deal you had hoped) all should be well without any further involvements.


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## mikedddd (Jul 22, 2009)

Here is a picture of the badge on a 2005 SawStop at that time SawStop only had one saw on the market. As far as I know all the model number's that started with CB had this badge. Then later when the model number changed to ICS the badge changed to Industrial Cabinet Saw, there was probably plans for the PCS version in the works at that time. If it where a PCS version of there saw the model number would start out PCS whatever. If your saw has the model number CB53230 then it is the big saw, go to SawStops website and check for yourself and as I posted before the PCS version was never offered with a 5hp 3ph motor. The only thing I would question the seller on would be the year of the saw, it may be older than 2008.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^check out Mike's advice; you might be the proud owner of a weirdly tagged ICS!


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## mbs (May 8, 2010)

Great information, and you're right Mike. Yesterday I measured the size of the table and it was 30" deep and 44" wide. It just so happens that 30 inches is the OVERALL depth of the Professional saw so in my mind I verified that the saw was the Pro model. I didn't read the full listing of the specs which shows the table size at 27" deep.

So I am the proud father of a weirdly tagged ICS. I was over my initial let down and I'm back to my elated state of mind.

Thanks a bunch for thinking of the details that I overlooked (twice).

Cheers.


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## mikedddd (Jul 22, 2009)

I just came in from the shop for lunch. I had a look at my saw model number while I was out there and it is ICS51230 I thought it was the CB51230 my mistake, I bought my saw in the fall of 2007. The contractors version came out shortly after I purchased mine and then maybe a year later the PCS version. So I think your saw would be a brand new still in the box 2007 or older model. When I bought mine everything was an option, the fence and 52" rails, mobile base and a dado cartridge which all together came to $4600.00 cdn.

So put the wind back in your sails because you got a very sweet deal.

Oh and let me be the first say YOU SUCK.


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## exelectrician (Oct 3, 2011)

Hmmm.$600.00 off? thats okay in my book. My 1 hp saw cuts everything as fast as I want, why do you need 5 hp? When is a manufacturer going to do the saw stop thing on a hobby size saw? Surely this is long overdue?


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Myself, I'm waiting for the *"Gyp-Stop"* model of all future power tool purchases.


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## mikedddd (Jul 22, 2009)

How about *"Gov-Stop"* na that will never happen.


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## dshort824 (Jan 12, 2011)

I would be Leary about this being a scam. He wants cashiers check or credit card only?


> Why not cash


!!! This can be a very tricky issue. I wouldn't do it unless you can pay cash for it! CL is full of scammers and they prey on these big item amounts. Be careful!!!


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## mcase (Oct 31, 2009)

mikedddd, is right on. I have a 2007 ICS and it has that Professional tag too. I never thought about it because there was no PCS version then. When they said Professional then they meant it. Confusing!. Anyway you got "the screaming honking runaway deal" after all. You should send the guy a thank you note and then take some pics and start a serious gloat thread.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

This reminds me… I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken. 

Enjoy that beautiful saw. Either way it went, you still had yourself a great deal.


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## calicant (Oct 22, 2011)

It's easier to find hen's teeth than a used Sawstop. Glad your deal turned out to be a nice one!


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## mbs (May 8, 2010)

I ordered the single phase 3hp motor today. Since it's Thanksgiving week the motor won't arrive until next Monday.

I asked the service rep when the saw was built and he told me it was the 51st week of 07. I'll post some pics soon.


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## mbs (May 8, 2010)

I checked the tracking number from ups and the motor is 10 miles from me. I hope it gets here tomorrow but it isn't scheduled until Monday.

The service was great from sawstop. I spoke with real people who know what they're doing.

In the mean time I checked out the alignment. It is dead on. I love working with well made tools.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Enjoy your new saw, and never look back !!

Congrats !


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

bottom line you have a SS and will be safer. Congrats


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## Lifesaver2000 (Nov 17, 2009)

mbs, that 10 miles away thing can sure be frustrating, especially on these holiday weekends.

I once had a package that was sent using FedEx Smartpost, and as best I could tell by the tracking data (assuming it was correct) it somehow made it to the post office that is just a walking distance (maybe half mile) from my house, but then turned around and went back to some big processing center over a hundred miles away before it turned and came back to my post office again.

Luckily it wasn't something I needed badly. Hope you have better luck with your new motor.


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## doordude (Mar 26, 2010)

nice tool to gloat over! just say ahhhh…


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## mbs (May 8, 2010)

Here's a picture of the saw. It looks like all the others, I'm sure. I love the mobile base. It picks up the saw and the legs on the extension table.


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## mikedddd (Jul 22, 2009)

Looks great, I don't move my saw very often but the mobile base works very well when needed. Did you have to change anything in the switch to run the single phase motor?


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## mbs (May 8, 2010)

No, the switch is the same. I'll just leave one wire off.


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## mbs (May 8, 2010)

I finally got the motor changed in the saw. Put a tenyru gold series blade in it and it cuts like butter. The sawstop dust collection works very well. only a few specs of dust make it past the blade gaurd. I'm very pleased with the purchase.


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