# BDFT, BF, or FBM? Which do you use? Is it regional?



## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Ive been curious about this for a while but today while reading another post I decided to ask my fellow LJs and get some answers.
Is this another Canadian/American thing like vice/vise? Is it regional East/West?
How do *you* abbreviate "board foot"? 
I'm from Canada (West coast) and the only one I've run into in forty years of buying lumber is fbm.
Google lists them all but doesn't say much about who uses which.

...... Just curious….


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

bf = board foot / feet IMHO

vise = mechanical clamp
vice = crime

IMHO


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## kiefer (Feb 5, 2011)

*bf or BF* around here but the question I have how is it measured in your area ?
Here the measurement on S2S is rounded up to the next size like a 5 1/4" becomes a 6" wide board and some lumber yards will add shrinkage on top of that .

Klaus


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## nightguy (Aug 2, 2016)

My supplier uses Bd Ft.


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

hello paul, i hope your doing well today, my experience has been like joes, hello to you joe, how are you doing these days, i have not occasion to buy to much, but what ive gotten was bf….now if you go onto facebook it could mean butt face….lol…but that gets us nowhere….....


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

You just brought up a gripe of mine on this now international website which is the use of acronyms here. Different areas use different terms for things and when it is stated as an an acronym its anybody's guess what it is. I don't have the patience to figure it out and usually dismiss a thread I don't immediately understand. I have been woodworking and machining metal for 60 plus years now and have the knowledge so I'm no tyro at this. PLEASE SPELL IT OUT!!!

Anybody else feel this way?

Planeman


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

Hey Paul.
The most common term I hear from the wholesalers here(Calgary) is board feet. Depends on the salesman…next most used term is board measure.
When I type, I usually type bd ft. When I order on the phone….they all know me well enough, when I order 1000 feet…I'm ordering board feet.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

> bf = board foot / feet IMHO
> 
> vise = mechanical clamp
> vice = crime
> ...


*Joe*, in the USA the clamping thingie on your bench is a vise. In Canada (and the rest of the English speaking world I believe) it is vice, just like the crime.

*Klaus*, I always buy at the supplier's yard and I've always been charged by the exact measure at the time of purchase. More often than not they will round in my favour but that may be because I was a commercial account for many years and have a very good relationship there.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

*Tony*, I say "board feet" but my paperwork has always said fbm (foot, board measure)


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## johnstoneb (Jun 14, 2012)

bf or bd ft

board feet is usually figured on the rough unfinished dimension. A planed 1×6 is figured as a 1×6 even though it is actually 3/4×5.5.


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

Look in the USDA's 'Wood handbook: Wood as an engineering material' for definition of terms. Everyone should have a copy. It's free 'cause it was produced at taxpayer expense.

M


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## Woodwrecker (Aug 11, 2008)

I'm with Joe Lydon.
And the Lumberyard man & I are pals too, so they always round up in my favor as well.
Good luck brother.

And, this was a good topic to bring up.
Thanks you


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

> Look in the USDA s  Wood handbook: Wood as an engineering material  for definition of terms. Everyone should have a copy. It s free cause it was produced at taxpayer expense.
> 
> M
> 
> - MadMark


I am aware of what a board foot is Mark. Did you read the question?

Wiki lists all three but seems to lean ever so slightly to FBM. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Board_foot


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

I've never seen it referred to as FBM
I always cal it out as bd ft.


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## joey502 (Mar 30, 2014)

> Look in the USDA s  Wood handbook: Wood as an engineering material  for definition of terms. Everyone should have a copy. It s free cause it was produced at taxpayer expense.
> 
> M
> 
> - MadMark


The USDA is a dept of the federal government in the United States. The original post was asking about other counties, coast etc.

a vice is a cigarette or gambling habbit. A vise is something i smash my fingers in.

The sellers in my area use the board foot unit.


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## Dez (Mar 28, 2007)

bf!


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

bf around here. Sometimes they write board feet. Sometimes just feet. Occasionally, a craigs list seller will seem confused about what a board foot is - and think it is the same as linear foot.

I haven't bought lumber very many times - but when I bought, I usually bought in bulk. If you are there and have the boards in sight, you see what you are getting and you know what you are paying. If it seems like a good deal to you, it is.

Hey, do metric folk have another measure?

I've read that Japanese still sell lumber based on the old Shaku unit (Japanese foot), which is a bit less than an imperial foot and is now exactly defined as 10/33 meter. So plywood is sold in 3×6 Shaku instead of some metric measurement, but the thickness is in mm. Does anybody know more about how the Japanese sell rough lumber?

But… that is a digression from your original question Paul.

-Paul


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

As a forester, we always used bf for board foot, mbf for 1000 bf and mmbf for million bf.


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## DonSol (Dec 31, 2014)

BF here in Indiana.


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## boxcarmarty (Dec 9, 2011)

How about that Don, the hills and hollers of southern Indiana spells it the same way…..


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## jwmalone (Jun 23, 2016)

I agree with Mr. Lyydon and Planeman40. I do understand we are all from different areas, hell here in south east U.S.A you can go 50 mile and not understand a damn thing, different name for everything. But those acronyms are a bitch when your dealing with people from other country's, especially the metric system, based on tens what the hell were those guys thinking lol. Around here its bf= board feet, as long as the guy has some gray hair deal with a youngin and you're screwed.


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

> As a forester, we always used bf for board foot, mbf for 1000 bf and mmbf for million bf.
> 
> - bondogaposis


This is what most of our suppliers use on their billing statements. I'll use bf if I know the person will know what I'm talking about and bd ft if I think there may be a question. Like some others, I've never seen the fbm abbreviation.


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## Texcaster (Oct 26, 2013)

LA in the '70s it was bf. Australia used to sell super feet, defects graded out. Now it's sold by the cubic metre or m3


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

I use bf. I've never seen fbm.


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## Bob Collins (Apr 25, 2008)

Flooring boards and decking are sold down here in Aust. in Linear Meters. Fire wood in Cubic Meters.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

I guess it's safe to say FBM isn't used in the USA.

That would be at least part of an answer to my question.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

I have seen bdft and bf. AS far as vice vs vise goes. Sometimes vice may be more fun than vise assuming you get away with it ;-)


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## Schwieb (Dec 3, 2008)

I learned it in Ohio and remained the same in Florida as bdft or bf. I remember going with my Dad when I was a kid to Michigan to buy lumber for his business. The guy tallying the order used a stick with a metal tee on the end that he hooked on the edge of the board to measure the width and thickness. As I recall it was called in fractions to the closest 1/8" they would run the tally sheet to the office and calculate the bd ft and the bill.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Just so you know I'm not making it up…....

These are however both Canadian companies so maybe it is one of those Vice/Vise things.
...... two nations divided by a common language…


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*Paul, *

I have to disagree with their Formula:

*Height x Width +12 x length = FBM*

is NOT correct.

The Correct Formula is: (all in Inches)

(Height x Width x Length) / 144 = BF

*Assuming that FBM is the same as our BF or BdFt…*

*Example:

1×12 x 96 = 1152 / 144 = 8 bf*
1" x 12" x 8 ft.

*2×12 x 96 = 2304 / 144 = 16 bf*

2" x 12" x 8 ft

Using their formula, it is impossible to get the correct answer… * Yes?*


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

*Joe*, sorry, the screenshot is a little blurry.
If you look closely I think you will find that the formula you are looking at is 
Lineal feet X widthX thickness (divided by) 12 = fbm
I dint have the "divided by" sign on my iPad , sorry again.
It isn't a "plus" sign it is a "divided by" sign


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

Paul,

I was looking at the third line from the top… Looks like "+" sign to me… I even magnified it to be sure…

... I'm used to seeing the "/" for Divide… Sure looked like a "+" to me…
... It STILL looks like a "+" sign to me… 
... I can see where 2 pixels, one above & one below, could make the difference.
... I could not get it any closer to see more pixels…

Thank you.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Joe, it is a divide sign. Definitely poor way to state it, but there are examples below it. First 2 measurements in inches, then divide by 12 to get a value to multiply by the length in feet.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

I am familiar with board foot being referred to as bdft. or bf. with the former being more common. I did see an ad running in Allen, MI on craigslist for slabs priced by "Sq. Bd. Ft." which is an immediate red flag for me as I've never heard of anything being priced in such a way.


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## Woodbum (Jan 3, 2010)

When I sell materials I call it out as "board feet" or say: "the price is by the board foot". When I write it down, it is usually written as bf in either upper or lower case.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Here you go Joe. I blew it up for you.


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

Thanks, Paul… That is very clear…


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## Jim Jakosh (Nov 24, 2009)

I have always used bf for board feet, but that is strictly for price. When I buy lumber I describe/rder it by the dimensions I need and let the seller calculate the bf for price.

Jim


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

In Europe Union, metric system is mandatory (with a few exceptions like aircraft altitude in feet and aircraft travelling distance in nautical miles while other distances used in aviation are in m).

Labelling must state the real dimensions. A board labelled 19mm thick is 19mm thick.
price can be in m³ or, if the section is given, per m or, if the three dimensions are given, the price is per piece.

For anyone with a little bit of math/science varnish (I mean end of primary school where I learned the metric system in 1962), feet is a length unit and expressing a volume in [...] feet is simply shocking.

If at least US people were using cubic inches, cubic feet, cubic yards …

Using mbf to mean 1000bf is also totally confusing for the rest of the world as the prefix "m" means 1/1000th. The standard prefix for 1000 is "k".

I sometime wander if this is all organised to confuse the US customer; so when he tries to buy something he will get "what he has asked for" but not what he wanted to have.


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## jdh122 (Sep 8, 2010)

prelm just posted a queston about a piece of ash he bought: http://lumberjocks.com/topics/175074

The board is marked in chalk: ash 6 fbm.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Thanks Jeremy, I was starting to think I'd made it up.


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## sawdust703 (Jul 6, 2014)

Even here in Kansas where the rest of the world thinks we're dumb dirt farmers & woodworkers are few & far between, & trees are just for looks, we buy wood by lumber by the bdft. The junk pine at the lumber store, too.


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

> feet is a length unit and expressing a volume in [...] feet is simply shocking.
> 
> If at least US people were using cubic inches, cubic feet, cubic yards …
> - Sylvain


Board measure is a cubic measure Sylvain. 1 board foot= 144 cubic inches.
If I buy one board foot of 4/4(1" thick) rough lumber, I'll get 144 cubic inches of wood(regardless of length and width).
If I buy 1 board foot of 8/4(2" thick) rough lumber, I'll get 144 cubic inches of wood(regardless of length and width).

Simply shocking?
How about the fact that Canada has been officially metric since the mid 70's. All building codes are in metric, both residential and commercial. All trades schooling(apprenticeships) is taught in metric…but almost all residential construction still uses imperial measurement, while almost all commercial construction uses metric.
Stupid…but thats the way it is here.


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

To clarify my meaning
1) Nothing shocking about using inches ,feet or whatever.
2) I have long ago understood what a board-foot is.
3) What I wouldn't like, is have to use what at first glance looks like a length to express a volume. This is counterintuitive.


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