# Restaurant tables



## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Bidding a job to refinish 56 tables at a local chain restaurant. 
We plan to use White Water Conversion Varnish. The first coat will be thinned 10% with butyl acetate with a full strength spray as a top coat.

We'll be using my partners pot sprayer mainly because that's all we have and it's compatible with the varnish.

We'll use Stripease first and take as much of the old water based poly and original varnish off as we can. These tables were refinished several month ago by someone who didn't even scuff the old finish before he laid down some water based poly. They look terrible.

If the Strip ease takes off the stain, we'll restain the area and then finish.

We're hoping to set up a spray booth in my back yard under some shade trees with a 10' x 10' pavilion on a large canvas tarp and use plastic to wrap it to keep the wind out. If it's a calm day we'll just cover about three sides or it might get to hot to work.

Then after about 15 -30 minutes we'll take them to a room where they can finish drying and gassing off.

We can only do about 2-4 tables at a time and there are 56 including a rather large family table, it's rectangle. only one round table for a corner but not all that big, most are 30×48 booths and 36×36 tables.

Been studying all week about what the best finish to use and really not wanting to use a pour on anything. Everyone here seems to agree that White Water Conversion Varnish is the best choice.

What think you?


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## lunn (Jan 30, 2012)

No clue as to the finish. Try Kutzit stripper, it's the best i've used and i've tried them all. Do a little research on useing a sand blaster, useing corn cob media to remove the softened finish.


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

Look at a soda blaster for removal. Biodegradable and fast.


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## NoThanks (Mar 19, 2014)

"If the Strip ease takes off the stain, we'll *restain the area* and then finish."

I would say you could count on the stripper taking away the stain. 
I also doubt that you can touch up just the areas where stain is removed and have them look good.
Once you put the stripper on you should be prepared to sand down and restain the whole table.
JMO, if you want them to look good.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

Properly stripping and prepping for new finish is very time consuming. But like any other finishing process, do it right or it stands out like a sore thumb.


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

It's far better to be criticized by a wise person than applauded by a fool

A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

Amen


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Will you be using Charles Neil's product to control blotching?


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

The wood is veneer, so no sanding guys. And Lacquer thinner will likely take off the old finish.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I hope it all works out for you Russ ,it sounds like a tough time consuming job .


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## NoThanks (Mar 19, 2014)

"The wood is veneer, so no sanding guys. And Lacquer thinner will likely take off the old finish. " 
- RussellAP

"We'll use Stripease first and *take as much of the old water based poly and original varnish off as we can*."

Still a complete strip job, I think your in for more than you are thinking. 
If it were me I would ask to take one table and do it before accepting the job. Then you will know exactly what to expect.

Good Luck


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

I would bid the job as if I had to build and replace all the table tops. When refinishing veneer, that is often all that works.


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

I would heed the warning some have given, if you have the time to dedicate to this I would try to work a bid theoretically, with the methods you describe. My advice would be, go thrift shopping and pick up a couple of tables that are pretty cheap. Strip and refinish those, and track the time and process… Then you will have a pretty good Idea of how you should bid this job. I have opened a full on finishing operation in our shop this year, and with top notch conditions, and equipment (including a large booth), and I have turned down the refinishing jobs that have been offered to us based on risk and experience.

Some time ago, I bid this same type of job. I found I could actually buy the pre-made table tops, and finish them, cheaper than re-finishing the existing tables, re-using the bases and other hardware. (They were all oak, however, and nothing special) That said, the restaurant did their research and found that they could buy the tables, already finished cheaper than the bid. 
The other thing that concerns me is the first botched re-finish job… anyhow. I agree that some kind of post catalyzed product is the way to go. I am currently using solvent based, but water based is the right choice for you, if you don't have access to a booth. I have had a lot more success with shading in a clear coat, than repairing stain, you may want to consider that, if you go for it. So for me it would be finding a product that is going to adhere well, and stripping only enough to get to that. If I were doing it, I would be sanding the existing clear coat until it was stable, and then building up with a Euro style sealer and clear coat. The stuff can be laid on thick, and builds and fills really well. It is however, IMHO, outside the reality of the equipment and workspace you have. Blasting sounds like a viable suggestion, but having no previous experience with that, the learning curve would likely eat any margin quick!!!

Edit: *Iwud4u* "If it were me I would ask to take one table and do it before accepting the job. Then you will know exactly what to expect." Or now that I re read this… How bout just +1 *Iwud4u*


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

I have found with refinish jobs in kitchens that I can actually buy new doors from door shop and stain and lacquer those doors cheaper than what I would need to charge for stripping back the old doors. It does not appear to be economical sense to refinish a veneer product. Not to sound negative, but it does not seem to be the best project to accept into your shop.

Let me say, I am currently on a learning curve, but I have learned a lot from the school of hard knocks and have come a long ways since we opened in 2010. There have been projects that I have even spoken about here on LJ where many posts offered words of warning against the project. Reluctantly I still took on projects that with better judgement I should have passed on and felt hurt (for lack of a better word) in the end of the project. My only true blessing is that for every bad project I took I had a couple of good projects. Sort of a two steps forward, one step back type of thing with us. But looking back, I know if I had passed all of our bad projects, we would be further ahead today. Sometimes we might be tempted to take a bad project because we don't have anything else, but in the end it may not be worth the risk.

I don't really want to get into too many details, but one example, I had 2 jobs that overlapped some or where pretty much back to back. The first project I gained a decent profit, and I was very happy and proud, the very next project I lost on and the loss was pretty equal to the amount I gained on the previous project. With that example alone, I would have been ahead quite a bit financially speaking had I not accepted the bad project. And guess what, had I passed on the bad project, worst case would be I would have been out of work with some cash in pocket. As it was, I was working my BUTT off in a bad situation while feeling broke.

With you though, what if you are not as fortunate. If you take any major loss on a project, can you recover? You take responsibility for 60 or whatever tables, you try to cheapen your bid to win the job and so already you are handicapping yourself with a tight budget. Then what happens if something happens in your finish process and you have issues. The customer you are working for does not care about your problems, or that you may be on a tight budget, they only care that you have a contract with them and they want you to succeed with your end of the deal.

But it does sound like you are set on going to the school of hard knocks and I wish you the best on that.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

For anyone that will read this. The general manager of the restaurant got screwed by the last guy that refinished these tables. She doesn't expect them to be perfect, she just wants a finish that isn't going to peel off. The chain is not buying new tables for this restaurant for about 3 years. All we have to do is strip that old poly off and clean it up and spray on the new finish.


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## NoThanks (Mar 19, 2014)

"*All we have to do* is strip that old poly off and clean it up and spray on the new finish."

LOL, Looks like you got it handled.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Stripping the old finish is only half the equation, afterwhich

you should wash every thing off with a different solvent.

I think we used MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone) after stripping it.

Good luck.


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## NoThanks (Mar 19, 2014)

How are they going?


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

If you spend a day building a flow over tank from melamine and a hook up a lidded five-gallon bucket with a ball valve and reinforced vinyl hose going to a long-handled natural bristle brush, you've got a $100 flow-over system. The bucket gets filled with 2-3 gallons of stripper then hoisted between the rungs of a tall ladder so it's higher than the working area. Just be sure to use a tight fitting lid because spills would be a disaster. The valve is on the bottom of the bucket.

Using the above setup and liquid stripper, I was able to strip a chair and wash it clean with alcohol and lacquer thinner in 30 minutes. The melamine "tank" is just a 1/4" thick sheet on the bottom that's shaped into a curve by use of curved ribs underneath and surrounded by 6" tall sides. There's a hole on one side with a funnel stapled to it. In use, the tank is setup at an angle and liquid stripper flows towards the funnel, through a screen and into the bucket for recycling.

It's necessary to use that system in an area with proper ventilation or outdoors do to the amount of stripper that gets exposed to the air before it falls into the recycling bucket.

Also, some people might think it smart to hook up a pump to the system instead of using gravity but a lot of strippers are flammable and cheap pumps are seldom safe with such materials.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

We haven't gotten the job yet. They have to get the main office to approve it.

JAAune. we plan to set up a pavilion in my back yard under some shade trees and use some plastic for walls and a painters tarp covered by disposable plastic on the ground.

We are toying with the idea to just try and remove the last water base finish that was put on with some mineral spirits. I'd like to get a table in here to try some things out on it. The last guy that finished the tables didn't scuff the original finish, so his poly just peels off like a sunburn. If we can loosen that up underneath, we can likely just wipe that finish right off.


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## rrww (Aug 12, 2012)

What kind of turnaround time is expected?

I have done this kind of job before, just make sure you have a contract that says who delivers, when, payments, and storage fees along with anything else you can think of. What kind of warranty? Remember you are dealing with the corp. office, not the people at your local store.

I know that you know surface prep is critical when coating over an old finish, I would make sure to do more than scuff sanding. There may be more than a scuff sanding issue if the previous coating is peeling off.

Good luck, it will be quite a project.


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## Stoli (Mar 7, 2009)

> She doesn t expect them to be perfect,


You got that in writing, right?


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## NoThanks (Mar 19, 2014)

> We haven t gotten the job yet. They have to get the main office to approve it.
> 
> JAAune. we plan to set up a pavilion in my back yard under some shade trees and use some plastic for walls and a painters tarp covered by disposable plastic on the ground.
> 
> ...


Did you get the job? haven't heard from you for a while, stop in and catch us up…


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

We are still working on getting the paperwork to the parent company. They want a W9 and I'm not able to give them one until I get a business license which I'll be doing in a couple weeks, so my partner is using his business to run it through. The check should be in the mail soon for the material deposit so we can get started.


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## freddy1962 (Feb 27, 2014)

The finish will just wash off with methylene chloride and a stiff brush if the mineral spirits don't work.
http://www.kwickkleen.com/ Use it as JAAune describes above. Dangerous, but good stuff. I've used it refinishing many antique tables in the past.


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

Which product number are you using


> The finish will just wash off with methylene chloride and a stiff brush if the mineral spirits don t work.
> http://www.kwickkleen.com/ Use it as JAAune describes above. Dangerous, but good stuff. I ve used it refinishing many antique tables in the past.
> 
> - freddy1962


Which product number did you use? I've been using Kutzit because it's the only decent liquid stripper I can pick up locally. It's not bad stuff but it has a wax additive that causes it to gel somewhat instead of flowing smoothly into the bucket at the end of the tank.

The #120 remover looks the most useful to me since it's a solvent wash. I avoid water wash because it tends to create extra work - especially with veneered furniture.

I'm scheduled to refinish 8 doors and a dining table within the next 4 weeks so this would be a good time to get a better stripper.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

So how did the job go? Was it everything u thought it would be.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

We decided not to do it Jerry, they didn't want to pay the deposit.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Yep, those customers are out there.


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

Good call.


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