# RBI 820 4 in 1 - Any One Use This



## lansinwd (Sep 4, 2012)

I am looking at getting a bigger planer to speed up the process a bit. One option available to me (2 hour drive to get) is a very lightly used RBI 820. This has a 15" planer capacity and has a 5 HP motor. The person is asking $1000, but seems willing to go lower. There seems to be very little on the web in regards to reviews, and of the few sparse reviews, they seem to range from terrible to fantastic. I would probably just hold off for a cheaper planer, but I like the idea of being able to use the sanding feature for end grain cutting boards. Not sure I would use the molder or gang cutting options at all.

Does anyone here have any experience with this particular model or RBI in general?


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

For that kind of money, I'd hold off unless you really want the sanding feature. In my experience planers with the ability to switch out the cutter head for a sanding drum or moulding head are great from a versatility standpoint but leave a little to be desired when compared to a dedicated machine. You can get a brand new Grizzly for close to the asking price of this used machine. Personally, I'm holding out for a good deal on a 20" planer in decent shape and not too far away. Right now there's a JET 15" for $500 and a Powermatic 15" for $700, each less than an hour from me.


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## lansinwd (Sep 4, 2012)

I am starting to understand that there has been little experience with the RBI combo machine, however, I thought I would give this one more shot as I think I am going to pull the trigger on a planer this weekend. A guy pretty close to me has a 15" Delta (22-780X) good shape (dull blades) and is pretty firm at $700. The RBI that mentioned before has dropped down to $850 and I have a feeling he will go to $750.

Any thoughts on what I should do? The RBI has a 5HP motor and 20" cut, but I only build small projects for the most part (but would like to buy rough lumber) so the extra width and power would not be a huge factor, I am more concerned with longevity (quality) of the tool. The molder head would be nice for some picture frames that I would like to make though. Only other difference is the drive 15 minutes for the Delta 4 hours round trip for the RBI,

Or should I continue to wait for a better deal. I still need to get a BS and a Jointer, so the better I do with saving money on buying the right planer, the quicker I can move on the other tools.

@bigblockyeti, I saw the Jet and Powermatic that you were talking about as well, but I have never heard back from either seller on them so there wasn't much of an option there, hopefully you were able to get a hold of them.

Thanks for any advice.


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

What did you end up doing? I'm 2 years late, but having been a dealer for RBI in times past I have a lot of experience with their machines. They are not particularly cleverly made, but they are durable, and many parts are off the shelf stuff. I have an old 612 model I bought new in 1980 (?) and it's still running strong. I've replaced one feed roller and another needs replacing now. Thousands of bd ft of hardwood lumber have gone through it and it has made many hundreds of linear feet of custom molding. 
At $750 dollars, I would not have hesitated and would have walked past your other choices to get it.

DanK


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## RBIDoug (Feb 24, 2017)

Dank:
I just bought a used RBI 820 with molding, sanding, and gang saw heads. Am trying to get it to not snipe or at least reduce the current amount of snipe. I noted that you were a RBI dealer in the past, can you give me any pointers?
Doug


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Doug, sure. Snipe on these machines should be nearly non-existent. The basic principle in play here is the tendency of the trailing end of the board to snap up when it leaves the infeed roller. This means that there is a force being applied to cause the end to lift off the bed. Most often this is caused by the leading end of the board sagging without support. Several things to do.

One is to adjust the outfeed table so the outboard end is 1/8" to 1/4" HIGHER than the cast table, turning it into an up ramp. Adjust further outfeed support accordingly. The infeed table usually does well if it is in the same plane as the bed.

A second thing is to actually hold the board as it exits applying up pressure.

These two actions assume that the tension on the outfeed roller is adequate and balanced. Check the nuts holding the springs to see that they are indeed applying sufficient pressure equally. They should compress the spring a minimum of 3/8", assuming that the springs haven't weakened.

A further tip is to wax the bed with a good quality hard (Carnuba) wax like Lundmarks. Lacking that, baby powder is a good lubricant for the bed. While this doesn't address the snipe issue it sure helps the planer.

Any other questions, let me know. I have a moulding head with wide and narrow knife holders if you want it.
DanK


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## RBIDoug (Feb 24, 2017)

Thanks Dan,
I'll give your suggestions a try and let you know. Holding up on the board seems to be a learned process and I'm afraid with my lack of experience it might not be(for me) a 100% repeatable. It would be my luck to ruin a project just because I either forgot or did not do the maneuver properly every time.

Thanks for the offer of the moulding head but a brand new one (still in the box) came with the unit, as did the sander and the gang saw attachments.

I wonder how many of these RBI/Hawk planers are out there in use? Did I buy a "turkey".

Thanks again,
Doug


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

They're out there. I sold some, and I've had another recent inquiry. They along with their big brothers are very durable and useful machines. No turkey. 
You don't have to buy knives from RBI, though I think you still can. They contract them out, so you might as well buy from a reputable knife maker. The small holder uses Sears shaper cutters in sets of three. The small ones can also be used in the planer head without taking the knives out (at least on the 12" ones you can). Just remove the center gib and replace the spacer with a knife. Just make sure they are well seated in a clean pocket and tightened securely. Saves a lot of trouble for small stuff. 
You need a special table for making moldings and they are easy to make. Can help you with that too.

DanK


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## RBIDoug (Feb 24, 2017)

Mine came with a spars set of sharpened knives, the ones in the unit do need to be changed out though. What is the process to get the old knives re sharpened? Can this be done on the machine or do they have to come out and be sent out?

thanks again for all your help,
Doug


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

If the knives are not in too bad shape you can stone (diamond plate is faster) them pretty easily in place. With an appropriately coarse grit, place the stone on the knife edge and rest the other end on the steel head behind the knife to hold the angle. Go to the finest grit you have, not less than a medium arkansas stone or a fine diamond plate (not extra fine or extra extra fine…waste of time). You can do this a couple times before you have to remove the knives.

When you do remove the knives, run the set screws in the jibs all the way back and beat the gib with a big 3 lb hammer on a hardwood stick…a single very sharp blow should loosen the gib. Take out the jack screws and coat them with NeverSieze or the like and do the same with the set screws in the gibs. The steel set screws in the gibs interact chemically with the aluminum gibs and you want to prevent that from going any further than it already has.

If I'm still alive at that point, you can send the blades to me and I'll sharpen them for you. Or you can take them to most any sharpening shop. It's not hard to do it yourself…just need a block of wood with a groove to hold the blade as you work it over a stone. Some guys put all three blades together into a bundle for stoning. That may help you hold the correct angle (30°).
DanK


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## RBIDoug (Feb 24, 2017)

Dan,
Installed new blades last night and it is cutting smooth as glass now, but I still have a lot of snipe unless I verrrrrrrry slowly sneak up of the target thickness at about 1/16 or less of a inch at each pass. All the hardware was very nice, no hard to remove screws or gibs. I did note that the infeed roller is not in as good shape as the outfeed roller. Should I swap them? Could that be causing my snipe problem? Any suggestions?

Also, even with the vac system going there is a lot of dust and shavings coming out of the infeed during operation, is this normal for this planer or can I do/add something to lessen the clean up hassle?

Thanks again for all you help and advice.
Doug


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Yes, a messed up infeed roller can be the cause of the snipe. The irregularity can grab the board and pull it off the table as it passes the end of the board. Get a replacement…the new material they use is far superior to the old rubber. I wouldn't waste my effort to move it. 
1/16" is a good maximum for the finish passes. I seldom allow my 12" planer more than 1/16" depth of cut. While these are among the few that can successfully remove up to 1/4" at a pass, it's not smart to run it at that capacity for too many reasons to go into here. A straight blade cutter head has limitations compared to the newer segmented helix heads. The slow feed speed is in your favor for smooth cuts because you get about 90 CPI cuts per inch, which on a 3 1/2" diameter makes for very tiny ripples. i.e. a smooth looking cut. (A hand plane is still far superior…)
My current configuration for dust collection is a retrofit…it wasn't an option when I bought. I have learned by experiment that cutting three sides of a rectangle in the lid above the cutter and bending the resulting tab into a semi-circular shape sent a stream of chips out the top that had no place to bounce back. When I got a big dust collector and cut that tab out (mistake), the chips began to bounce out the front. So I reconfigured the outlet by putting a "scoop" shaped tin above the outfeed roller positioned so that it cannot ever contact the knives even if there is an "explosion" from cantankerous wood. That shields the vertical surfaces that cause the bounce back and directs the stream of chips coming off the top of the head upwards where they then ride the air stream to the cyclone. There is still a dozen or so chips that bounce back out the front, but the back is clean. It's going to be awhile before I can improve on that I think. 
DanK


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## RBIDoug (Feb 24, 2017)

Dan,
Thanks, as always your advise is appreciated, this if my first planer and I have a lot to learn.
I am building a jig to sharpen my own blades and noted your comment that the blades were cut @30 degrees. I built the jig and installed the blades only to discover that my blades were cut @40 degrees, so I'm going to have to recut the jig which is not a big deal, just time to set up the mill. What is the best 30 or 40 degrees, or ??

I ordered the new infeed roller and at the same time inquired as to the correct blade angle but the order taker person did not know but assured me that some one would call me back--that's was 5 days ago. Not encouraging.

Best,
Doug


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

You are not likely to hear from them re: blade angle. I have mine sharpened at 30° and that seemed to be factory original. However, any angle will work up to where the heel begins to drag on the cut, which may be close to 45°. 
Here's the scoop…like hand planes, blade angle may be a preference more than a necessity. Some angles are better for some things than others. 30° is a safe bet for most wood working tools as a general rule of thumb, but there are good reasons to deviate from that. Generally speaking, the higher the angle the more durable the blade becomes. Steeper angles may tear out less, but they take more power to run. Softer woods may crumble instead of cut cleanly with high angles, while figured wood will tear out less. Very dense woods or extra dense deformities (think knots) can readily chip a low angle edge because the force overcomes the ability of the hard, brittle steel to hang together at the very thin edge.

So it's a matter of knowing what you are going to do and what to expect. If 40° has been working well with what you do, then stick with it. No reason to change. It may require fewer sharpenings.

FYI, if a streak develops because a stone or, heaven forbid, a piece of metal went through, just reset the blades staggered enough to wipe out the ridge. You can get a lot more mileage out of the blades this way. They're freaking expensive.
DanK


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## taxque (Nov 3, 2010)

Dan,

I just bought a used 820. I got it to make louvers for plantation shutters. I only have a planer head - so if you still have the molder head i man in serious need of one.


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Yes, it's still here. 
PM me.

DanK


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## BlaineS (Apr 15, 2017)

Dan

I have an RBI 820 that needs a feed roller belt. Know where I can get one?

Thaks,
blaines


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

NAPA, Rural King, most any auto parts or farm store. Get a high quality one. If you don't know about belts take the old one in and ask for a match or better. If the store isn't helpful, move on.

DanK


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

http://www.rbiwoodtools.com/files/Planer/models_older_812-816-820.pdf

Last page one can order parts


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## BlaineS (Apr 15, 2017)

I just signed up on this site a few minutes ago. That was a fast reply guys, thanks. I think that I am going to like this site.


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## RBIDoug (Feb 24, 2017)

I just bought a new feed roller from these folks:
http://stores.bushtonhawkstore.com/feed-rollers/


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## BlaineS (Apr 15, 2017)

Thanks. I just emailed them. I do not see any belts on their web site.
I can not find any 3/8×55" belts around here. The longest is 40 ".


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

O'Reilly's has them…

DanK


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## jefffhilll (May 8, 2017)

This is a great post, I've been looking for some good info on the 820. I have an 820 and I've really been planing a ton with it, and so it's now time for me to get some new knives. I'll also try the method Dan outlined in this post to sharpen my current knives. I've sharpened some knives from a 12" DeWalt, and wasn't sure I'd be happy with how I did on these 20" knives. I'd like to get the sander drum working in my RBI too; I haven't seen too many places with the adhesive backed velcro that'd be a good size. Where do people get this and the sandpaper from?

Thanks,
Jeff Hill


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Klingspor is my favorite for all abrasives.

DanK


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## BlaineS (Apr 15, 2017)

Dan,

Do you know where I can get a tool to set the blade height? How high off the head should it be


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I have only one tool or I'd sell you one. I think RBI still sells them. They are remarkably easy to make. Here is one that shows clearly how they work. There is a piston that rests on the blade edge and when the top of the piston feels flush with the top of its holding cylinder, then the blade is set correctly. Of course, you calibrate the cylinder height at first use, hopefully before you remove any dull blades to be replaced.

This PDF shows the actual RBI gage in use at top of page 11.

DanK


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## BlaineS (Apr 15, 2017)

Yea, that's the problem. My dad has sharpened the blades a few times. I have to raise the blades, but do not know how much. Can it be scaled or use a caliper. I could make one if I knew where zero was. Is there a way to find out how far above the head they should be


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

The only thing that really matters about how far the blade edge should be above the head cylinder is that it cuts freely. Yes, the height gage won't be perfectly on, but it's not that reliable anyway, since the hood nuts can move and usually do. The biggest issue that requires the height gage is that all the blades must be the same height all the way across and relative to each other. If you have a machinist's caliper, you can get real close. Another way is to use a magnetic base dial indicator to compare the cutting edge heights. I'd simply make the gage. It gets frustrating because the blades move as you tighten the gibs, so I get the gibs fairly snug and then adjust. If everything was carefully cleaned, the last half turn to finish tightening the gibs will move the blade consistently a couple thousandths. If you can get the cutting edges within 0.005" you will be doing well. No matter how professionally you set it, there will be a high blade that does most of the cutting until they wear evenly. So live with your best effort until you've run several hundred feet through the planer and then take your fine stone (or diamond plate) and hone the very slightly worn edges until sharp again. It's easy and consistent if you let the hone ride on the cutting edge and the cylinder behind the blade. It will put a micro bevel on the blade at a slightly different angle than the sharpening, but that's OK. Most sharpening is done at 30° and your honing might raise that to 40°. but it will still cut cleanly. Most importantly, all your blades will take an equal bite for the smoothest possible cut. You can greatly extend the time between when you must take the blades out for reshaping again. 
DanK


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## Jacksdad (Mar 28, 2017)

I would buy it just because of all the options available. I would never use the hang cutter but I'd use the planer and sander.


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## BlaineS (Apr 15, 2017)

Thank you. I appreciate your help. I bought this 820 years ago. I never really used it but my father did. He is 89 years old and still uses it, but he doesn't adjust nor repair nor grease it. I try to keep it up. I ran CNC machines for 20 years, so am trained in metrology. I hope to use it in the future. Would like to get a gang saw and sander. How well does the gang saw work. Are they available


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I was never a fan of the gang saw. I tried it once. Sold all the stuff. I wasn't experienced enough, I guess, to keep the cuts accurate. It would be OK for roughing, but then another problem rears up. If you are rough ripping, then it's likely the boards are also rough and feeding them through becomes a bit of a crap shoot. If the boards have tension in them, and they all do to one extent or another, there just isn't enough machine there to hold that tension and keep the cuts moving in a straight line. Perhaps if the feed rollers were checkered steel rollers, it would work better, but the rubber feed rollers crawl and slip.

You can contact RBI (now something else but I can't remember what) to see. Other companies may make the same part, e.g. Woodmaster.

What's the "hang cutter", Jacksdad?

DanK


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## RBIDoug (Feb 24, 2017)

Blade set up:
I was shown a alt method of setting up the four blades on the 820.
first before blades were removed he ran 2 pieces of hard wood through the planer to make a pair of identical "spacer" blocks.

Do not alter the height of the table

Remove all 4 blades and resharpen.

Place the spacer boards under the cutter drum one on each side

Replace the blades one at a time tightening the lugs just enough to keep the blade from falling out when you turn the drum BACKWARDS.

When the back side of the blade contacts the hardwood it will push the blade into the slot, keep turning it until it comes up and then tighten the lugs and go to the next blade and repeat the process until you have replaced all 4 blades.

I could see no difference in the quality of finished surface over when I used the RBI set up gauge.

By the way I am considering selling my 820 in favor of a spiral cutter machine I have located. I have sander, planer, and gang saw, spare set of blades, all manuals and custom cabinet to store units not being used. $1000.00


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## buffalohead (Feb 28, 2015)

Dan Krager, I have an 820 VS and am trying to back out my planers jib screws and find them not responding well. Will be coating them again (second night) in bluecreeper penetrant and looking for a trick in breaking them loose with out rounding out the hex head. Thought about using a smaller pin punch and tapping on them to help them get penetrated. I ordered some 2 inch long hex impact driver tips that fit. Hesitate to use the impact driver on them. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Buffalohead, I use a 50/50 mix of acetone and transmission fluid which a comparison tester admitted (in small print) was 10 times better than any commercial product. My farmer and mechanic friends agree after they've tried it. 
Apply the mixture (it is not a solution so you must shake it well) liberally and let it set overnight. Beat on the screw with a 3 lb hammer and a rod same diameter as screw head with flat end so not to damage anything. This process can actually shrink the hex hole, so check often. If after several blows on each screw they don't loosen before stripping out the hex, repeat until they do. THEY WILL COME OUT with this process. Be patient.

When you put them back in, be sure to use a good coat of never seize, the gray colored grease that gets on your face from just opening the bottle. Then you won't ever have this problem again, I promise.

If you try to use the impact driver, turn the volume way down and use very short bursts while applying considerable pressure to the screw. It will come out without this, but it might accelerate the process.
DanK


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

I had a Belsaw planer and it was a great planer-molder. To justify running the molder, I always felt like I needed to be running at least a few hundred feet of molding. As such, doing all over again, which I did, I went with a lunch box. If I needed bigger, I'd get a really good deal on used one or go with a dedicated one, lime the Grizzly.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Searching online I've seen it compared to a woodmaster and I know they have a great reputation as a tank of a planner solid as a rock. Here's a link for one for sale on eBay it has a little info about it and photos

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RBI-Modelo-820-Hecho-en-EE-UU-20-pulgadas-industrial-Madera-Cepilladora-muy-agradable-cebada-Usado-/352148420703?_ul=BO&nma=true&si=G62vcQKVMdLju8%252FiIKRET6A9pQE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


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## e54 (Sep 21, 2018)

Does anyone have any experience with the Hawk 615 3 in 1. i haven't used it in a while and I am getting extreme vibration and really loud noise. Only when the cutter head is on the shaft? Thanks


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

There is nothing to keep the cutter heads from running unbalanced on these machines, and it is easy to mount things that are not balanced. For example, large cutters are often used with aluminum gibs, and if you use a steel gib it will be unbalanced. If you use a small steel gib with a small cutter it may balance much better than the same size aluminum gib. In other words, the weight of the gib and cutter must equal the weight of steel removed from the slot that holds them. 
I have found that these machines are generally heavy enough to tolerate some small imbalance, but I've also found that it is worth your time (and safety) to check the balance before assembly to the machine. I have the resource of multiple heads, so some are designated for the machine and often stored with cutters installed since they are balanced. For new setups, the extra heads are mounted on a test shaft that rolls freely on four ball bearing two at each end cradling the ends of the shaft. If the head tends to roll down and not stay where I put it, I adjust the balance by using a bigger gib or reducing the length of one until balanced. Alternatively you could weigh the cutter and gib to match the weight of the steel removed. Some engineering math would be involved, but doable. 
It is possible that you have a bad bearing (one that has failed suddenly) or even a belt with broken threads.

DanK


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## RBIDoug (Feb 24, 2017)

Dan,
Am still fighting with the snipe on my RBI 20 inch planer. Snipe is 4 inches from the end of the 18 inch sample board. the aft end never shows any snipe. I have re read your suggestions about adjusting the out feed ramp, but I don't see how this will effect my snipe problem since the snipe seems to be happening just after the board passes under the in feed roller and seems to stop once the board contacts the out feed roller. I have tried raising the in feed table a bit also without any noticeable gain. Maybe not enough?? 
Any suggestions?


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

It's been a lLONG time since I dealt with inbound snipe. Let's see what I can remember. In general, snipe occurs when the roller presses the suspended (for some reason) work piece to the table. So what can cause the work piece to be lifted from the table? Besides deformities in the wood, on the outbound side, it's usually sag, as in insufficient support. I think you are thinking in the right direction that that inbound work piece is not supported adequately. A 20" capacity is a lot for these "little" machines and that complicates things some. I use a wide belt sander to dress up wide panels if I'm working plugged in.

One is tempted to think that a board should go straight through the planer, and with steel rollers, heft and hubris of the large planers, they come pretty close to that. With spring loaded rubber rollers, funny things happen. If you put a straight edge through my planer to see if it's flat, you will quickly see it is not. The straight edge will rest on the outer end of the outfeed table and the outer edge of the infeed table and the bed of the planer will be a strong 1/8" to 1/4" below. The roller springs are so stout that a 3/4" board of most woods will easily be sprung to ride flat on the table, eliminating snipe at both ends. If I am planing 2" hedge, that might be a bit much because no board flex is going to occur. In that case, the board is so heavy that the auxiliary tables sag enough under its weight that it still works.

One might also be tempted to think that increasing the spring tension to the max would help solve the problem, but on the contrary, my experience has been that the rubber compresses too much and causes all kinds of havoc, especially as the exit roller tosses the work piece out like a bullet.

So, running these things is as much art as science and part of the key is determining how to equalize adequate but not excessive roller pressure on all points. The owners manual used to give hints for pressure adjustment. This gets really tricky given the drive belt tension on one end and the flex of the 20+" roller shaft, which is only 5/8" mild steel, probably. You should check for broken springs too.

So, the bottom line is I operate this machine as follows:
1. I wax the bed regularly and heavily using Carnuba wax (Lundmark), especially if some damp wood has gone through it.
2. Clean the rollers with alcohol, acetone, or lacquer thinner and a scratch pad.
3. The ends of the auxiliary tables are high as noted.
4. I hold the free end of the board high as I feed it into the planer.
5. I go to the outfeed side and hold the free end high until the feed roller drops off the board.

That has been a reliable process with this 12" machine over the years and snipe occurs only if there is noticeable deformity of the plank, particularly twist. The theory is that one face of the plank should be jointed before going through the planer, but in reality, sometimes the snipe is in the waste anyway.

DanK


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## RBIDoug (Feb 24, 2017)

I'm working with 2 inch thick Walnut (cutting boards) so I doubt there is much flex in the material. I have backed off the in feed springs on the roller with no improvement. Do you know what the proper setting is for the in feed roller springs? The in feed ramp is now about 3/16 higher than the bed. I'll jack it up a bit more and see if that helps. 
Thanks again for the help,
Doug


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I don't know the settings that would be applicable to your machine because it is much bigger.

3/16" seems like it should be adequate. With such big slabs, you will need lots of support in and out. If you could watch it closely while a helper feeds the material, you might be able to see what is going on. Check to be sure the bottom of the plank is flat. Perhaps a video could be made with closeups and slow motion that would be helpful.

Beyond that I'm helpless!

DanK

Edit: I remember having a rubber roller split that went undetected for a while and caused trouble…snipe, crooked feeding, etc.


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## T0ny (Jun 25, 2019)

Hello all,

My quest for a quality, long lasting planer/molder led me to lumberjocks when I started trying to learn more about RBI.

Being all the way down here in New Zealand, there aren't many options and I've always had very good experiences buying American made machinery. Our 'banana republic' exchange rate makes it somewhat tricky to afford anything like a good 4-sider, and I haven't got the budget or workshop space for one anyway.

I'm looking at the Woodmaster 12 or 18" model or the RBI/Hawk/Bushton 20" model. There's no shortage of information online for the Woodmasters but not much for the RBI and I'd really like to thank you, Dan, in particular, for taking the time to post in here. I was almost about to forget about RBI because there is so little information about them, even though they have been around for a long time.

That lack of reviews, owners singing their praises, etc, in products that have been around for a long time, combined with the plethora of ownership changes, make me a bit nervous. Until I read this thread.

I've emailed questions to and received answers from, Woodmaster. Their response time and information is great. My email to RBI bounced back (should I be worried?) so I copy and pasted my email in their contact us form on their website and hopefully that goes through.

Has anyone had difficulty contacting or dealing with Hawk/RBI/Bushton? 
Is it just me that wonders if they'll be around in a few years if I need support?
Perhaps parts are fairly ubiquitous?
Has anyone bought a new 820 planer recently?

Any help appreciated. Thanks in advance.


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I hear ya, T0ny. RBI used to be really responsive and their customer service very good. Now that it's owned by bean counters who don't seem to realize where their beans come from it's a different story. The machine I've had for over 35 years is remarkably durable for the simple machine it is. There's no doubt in my mind that you could buy parts from a good industrial supply and make an equivalent yourself. Yes, parts are ubiquitous. And what you can't buy, you can easily make. They did supply me a feed roller in a timely way.

From time to time, I get really pissed at the belt drives. Adjustment convenience was sacrificed to cost savings (or just dumb engineering) so the feed rollers are finicky. Keep the table waxed and rollers clean helps. Dust collection helped a great deal when I finally added that. I like that there are no bed rollers to SNAFU things.

To be honest, I've looked pretty seriously at Grizzly, but now that I should be downsizing that is not an option. They are international and have great customer service. I have a shop full of old Grizzly machines, two band saws, two shapers, two wide belt sanders, a table saw and they just work.

DanK


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## RBIDoug (Feb 24, 2017)

I have decided to sell my 20 inch RB
Used very little, going to a bench top model, just not enough room in my shop.
Located in Omak Washington, 98841

Doug Sapp
[email protected]


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

So, Doug, does the suburb of Brewster, Omak, list on craigslist as Wenatchee?

A guy up in the San Juans is asking sixteen for his. That kind of money should get you a pretty nice lunch box.

I had a Belsaw, about thirty years ago, and loved it for the work it could produce, and it's potential versatility (molding, gang saw). These beasts, certainly, didn't shy from 12" wide boards of oak, walnut, maple and what have you.


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## RBIDoug (Feb 24, 2017)

Brewster is 35 west, Wenatchee 90 miles west.
Yes Omak is listed as Wenatchee on craigslist.
I'll most likely put the RBI on Craigslist Monday.
Where are you located?


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

RBI, I was being a smart__. I graduated from Brewster in 69. My dad was in charge of the State Highways up the Methow, toward Chelan, out to Lehee Junction and a few miles up the "new" highway to Okanogan and Omak. From there, he took over the east side of the Northcross, when it opened.

As a Brewsterite, we used to consider Okanogan and Omak the big cities. I "teepee creeped" more than once or twice back in the sixties. Friends participated in the Suicide Race.

In addition to Brewster friends, at least one lives in Riverside.

Currently, I live in Desert Aire, which is about 120 miles directly south of you. It's an HOA, rather than a town, but it has, depending on the season, more residents than does the nearest town, Mattawa, Washington.


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## RBIDoug (Feb 24, 2017)

Desert Aire is a fly in community isn't it? I believe Josh Rosencrans and his wife live there, both pilots.
Yes for a lad growing up in Curlew, Omak was the big city for me also.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Probably bumped into them, but don't know them. They may have known the wife. She and her sister ran the local store for forty years, until retirement a couple years ago, when the store sold.

Yep, on the fly in.


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## T0ny (Jun 25, 2019)

Thank you Dan, that's good to know. I wonder if tariffs on imports might free up some margin for Bushton's bean counters to consider a few improvements.

I've downloaded their manual and attach it below. Maybe it's just my eyes but I can't see a tensioning mechanism for the feed roller belt. Is there any? Even just slotted holes for the feed motor mounting, if nothing else?

On the subject of belts, is anyone with an RBI getting main belt vibration coming through the cutter as chatter? I only ask because I've read of a few Woodmaster owners hinging their main motor mounts so the motor weight automatically keeps the tension on. I have an issue with that approach that may simply be my own ignorance. The motors are not light, so their weight might be overkill as a tensioning mechanism. I wonder what might be the longer term implications of that additional weight on the system.

Some have upgraded to a link belt and some have dropped to just the one belt so they are not fighting uneven tension between two belts.

It's interesting you mentioned dust collection. I have seen some videos of these planer/molders hooked up to the usual dust collectors and the volume of chips going everywhere but into the collection chutes concerns me. I was hoping a 2HP dust collector was going to be enough. You've (I think it was you) mentioned adapting the chute with a scoop of sorts that helps and I have assumed whichever one I end up with I'll have to tweak things a little. Maybe it's just me but I sure do hope to one day see things like "optimised chip/dust collection" being listed as a feature on any woodchip making machinery in the future. I don't mind tinkering but do hope chip collection stops being a mere afterthought for manufacturers. I know I'm ranting, sorry.

Someone, perhaps it was you, mentioned the gang saw option wasn't really working for you as it was too difficult keeping things aligned? I've been trying to work out how best to straight line sometimes scores or occasionally hundreds of average 15' boards and if I can make a sled I can run through the gang saw, rather than have to straight line one edge first then try to featherboard them against a guide as they go through the gang rip.

However, if I'm making a sled that long, why not eliminate the need for the gang rip option completely, not needing to change to and from the gang rip head, by making a sled where I can pack boards on edge into the sled and run, for example, 20 1" boards on edge through the planer for a one or more passes to firstly straighten the high edge then flip them over and get 'em all down to a consistent thickness ready for molding? Would be heavy, and take a few minutes to pack and unpack the sled, but it'll be running many boards through at a time, not having to sweat about alignment, not needing the gang rip option also means no time spent changing to and from that function?

There's no way I could justify a SLR machine, even though I know it'll save enough time over the ownership period to more than pay for itself. I could stretch to a powerfeed on the table saw, but maybe a sled arrangement for the planer could work well when needing to straighten lots of boards.

If there are better ways to do things than use the gang saws, I'd be happy to not chase that option on whatever machine I end up with.

Of all the features on these multi-function machines, the drum sanders seen to be the most contentious. I've always been taught to make extremely light passes often, if need be rather than put any pressure on them, and have not really had many issues. That said, I don't put our pine through them because it's so resinous.

Because our native timbers are getting harder to source and old growth native timber is like searching for hens teeth, I have found myself pulling down old houses for the framing lumber. Nails and 100 years of accumulated dust or paint are the norm. I see RBI have a wire brush option. I'm wondering if that could be a superb option and save the planer knives/inserts from plenty of wear. However, the wire brush will often be the first machine the RS lumber has seen in 100 years and as the first process it has to deal with poorly machined lumber of varying thickness, especially when a band waves across knots and the thickness varies considerably. I can see the feed rollers getting a workout and chewing up the urethane. But it might still be a useful feature and I'll just have to order a bunch of extra rollers.

You know something that did disappoint me a wee bit about the otherwise great Woodmaster option, was the additional charge of over $700 for a 50Hz motor (we are 240v, 50Hz here). Maybe I'm not understanding it properly and there are other things that have to be changed over, but surely LEESON don't charge that much of a premium?

I've got Baldor motors on other USA machinery here and they have been great and I note RBI use them too so I wonder what extra Baldor would charge for a 50Hz motor option.

Here's that RBI 820 planer/molder parts list for reference:


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

Good eye, T0ny, there isn't an adjustment on the feed roller belt, nor on the one coming from the cutter head to the feed roller system. That's one of the frustrating parts of the engineering, but it seems to work. I don't count taking washers out of a two sided pulley a reasonable "adjuster". But I have to admit I've had very little trouble with feeding on a well waxed table.

The fastest way to get a straight edge on a long plank is to temp screw a straight edge atop the plank and run that straight edge against a guide secured over the saw blade. In this picture the "angle piece" is the guide clamped to the fence and set so the edge of the guide is close to the blade top. The straight edge rides against the guide and the waste exits under it at the back of the saw. It sounds like you are doing a lot of them so a jam edge at the far end underside of the straight edge eliminates one screw. I can hold the close end steady enough without a screw, but a screw is security. I set a piece of 3 TPI bandsaw blade in an angled kerf to make a jam edge to hold the straightedge at the far end. Using a high quality blade like WWII gives me glue line cuts. 









My trick is to buy kiln dried stock from a local mill that sells it S3S (surfaced 3 sides) at 13/16". Gang rip is over rated on these dinky machines. A successful gang rip on long stock is best done on a chain bed commercial unit.

DanK


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## T0ny (Jun 25, 2019)

Thanks for that suggestion Dan. I'd like to avoid SLR-ing single boards at a time in those scenarios where I might have in the hundreds of them to do. For some reason I completely forgot about my portable sawmill. When I saw your illustration the thought of using my 18' sawmill rails as straight edges made me realise I should just make up a jig for the sawmill to hold many boards and then give the boards a haircut. Not sure why I never thought of that before but thanks for helping spark the thought. Certainly not a glue edge but good enough to feed to the molder function.

Regarding the gang rip function/option, I guess it's not really that important. Can you or anyone else think of a scenario when it might be useful? Unless I can come up with any I think I might not bother getting it.

I'm sure I read somewhere the RBI 820 planer molder now has easier cutter/molder head changes. That they have split the bearing blocks so the top halves can be unbolted and the heads removed easier. Yet, in the manual I downloaded I don't see that, so I'm not sure if the manual needs to be updated or not all models have that new way of doing it.

Hopefully I hear back from them soon.


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## T0ny (Jun 25, 2019)

> I have decided to sell my 20 inch RB
> Used very little, going to a bench top model, just not enough room in my shop.
> Located in Omak Washington, 98841
> 
> ...


Best of luck with the sale. I really should be looking to get a step down transformer to drop the voltage enough to keep the V/Hz ratio the same, when using a 60Hz motor on 50 Hz supply. I guess I would have to accept slightly less HP. Maybe I should just get the 7.5HP 3Ph motor option, a VFD, and swap the pulleys to get the revs back up.

Still not sure which way to go with it. To be honest, the $700 extra charge from Woodmaster for the 50hz motor has taken the shine off that option a bit. But I I decide to do away with the gand rip saw option then I guess it's back in the budget but with less $ for spares and tooling, etc.


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## T0ny (Jun 25, 2019)

Has anyone else tried emailing Hawk? When I try [email protected] it bounces back saying no such recipient, yet I received an e-mailed response to my questions recently from that email address. Yet when I replied it bounced back again. Frustrating.

I'm told they aren't doing straight cutter heads on the 820 anymore, instead the Byrd shelix.

Also told no probs running the motor on our 50Hz power. They'd use a bigger pulley to keep the head revs the same. Am not sure if it would struggle too much under load being more highly geared as well as running on fewer cycles.

The wire brush option is $2000, unfortunately. Maybe have a separate head with sacrificial knives or inserts instead of an expensive brush? Or ?

Max feed speed is 44fpm! Great but when would we ever run it that fast? Skip planing perhaps? This got me thinking, does anyone know of any generally accepted conversion factor or multiple to apply to the feed speeds achieving the same quality planing with straight cutters or spiralled inserts? I mean can the feed speeds for a spiral head be higher and achieve the same results? How do we compare the CPI of a straight cutter head to an insert head?


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## T0ny (Jun 25, 2019)

For what it's worth, I've had two rounds of Q 'n A emails with Woodmaster while waiting for RBI to get back to my last attempt to contact them. I'm not holding my breath. It has to date been a rather slow and frustrating engagement with RBI/Hawk.

Perhaps they are too busy to bother. Perhaps others have already banged their $ against this brick wall and decided to buy from Woodmaster and I'm just a slow learner? I've always found the customer service from American machinery people to be fantastic. Perhaps I was just overdue for a 'reversion to mean' experience.


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## Mld2t (Aug 17, 2014)

Hi all,

To answer the above question, RBI responded to an inquiry of mine very quickly and were helpful via email.

To my point, I have a gang rip head and a sander head for an RBI Hawk 820 that I picked up recently on a whim. PM me if you're interested.


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## Mld2t (Aug 17, 2014)

I'll ship too if need be. I'm in Lafayette Indiana.


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