# Shop Tips & Tricks



## GnarlyErik

*Shop Tips*

In the past, most old guys like me jealously protected their shortcuts and tricks to guard their job from competitors. I've seen many old fellows actually turn and place their bodies in front of their work to keep someone else from seeing how they did something, and they were not too bashful about doing so either. But, a lot of the old knowledge is disappearing now and some hard-learned things may disappear forever. I've learned a few tricks in my six decades of work related experience, and wish to pass a few tips along here, as I have time.

Tricks and shortcuts develop over time, depending on the trade. Some are to save time, make things easier, or more accurate. Some are time-tested and in general use, and others are peculiar to a particular shop or craft. I plan to present some I have used - and still do - hoping others may profit from them. Some you may already know, depending on your level of experience, and others may be new to you. In the end, my hope is overall, these little tips add to your knowledge and experience.

First, this one, which I call 'Poor Man's Scribe', is simple and obvious. In many shops you use the same few settings to scribe lines in from the edge of your stock - say for a line of screws or nails, or to sand, tape, saw or chisel too. Of course most wood shop people will have a scribing tool with infinite settings which can be used. But, it is much handier to have a simple little jig, or 'multi-tool' for this purpose, which can often fit 75% or more of your scribe spacing needs. And, depending on how big you make it, will not 'rock' like a scribe tends to do.

The pictures explain this little tool, and it can be made to fit your four most commonly used scribe spacings. In my case it's 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4", all labeled plainly. Put a hole in it for your finger and to hang it by, and PAINT IT RED (or other bright color) to keep it from getting lost in your bench clutter!

This will take mere minutes to make and save lots of time. Just some short thin battens, tacked/glued to a bit of ply. I have made some of these with bevels at the end to reach into corners, but they are then 'handed'. Let your needs be your guide.


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## HillbillyShooter

GnarlyErik said:


> *Shop Tips*
> 
> In the past, most old guys like me jealously protected their shortcuts and tricks to guard their job from competitors. I've seen many old fellows actually turn and place their bodies in front of their work to keep someone else from seeing how they did something, and they were not too bashful about doing so either. But, a lot of the old knowledge is disappearing now and some hard-learned things may disappear forever. I've learned a few tricks in my six decades of work related experience, and wish to pass a few tips along here, as I have time.
> 
> Tricks and shortcuts develop over time, depending on the trade. Some are to save time, make things easier, or more accurate. Some are time-tested and in general use, and others are peculiar to a particular shop or craft. I plan to present some I have used - and still do - hoping others may profit from them. Some you may already know, depending on your level of experience, and others may be new to you. In the end, my hope is overall, these little tips add to your knowledge and experience.
> 
> First, this one, which I call 'Poor Man's Scribe', is simple and obvious. In many shops you use the same few settings to scribe lines in from the edge of your stock - say for a line of screws or nails, or to sand, tape, saw or chisel too. Of course most wood shop people will have a scribing tool with infinite settings which can be used. But, it is much handier to have a simple little jig, or 'multi-tool' for this purpose, which can often fit 75% or more of your scribe spacing needs. And, depending on how big you make it, will not 'rock' like a scribe tends to do.
> 
> The pictures explain this little tool, and it can be made to fit your four most commonly used scribe spacings. In my case it's 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4", all labeled plainly. Put a hole in it for your finger and to hang it by, and PAINT IT RED (or other bright color) to keep it from getting lost in your bench clutter!
> 
> This will take mere minutes to make and save lots of time. Just some short thin battens, tacked/glued to a bit of ply. I have made some of these with bevels at the end to reach into corners, but they are then 'handed'. Let your needs be your guide.


Thanks for your generosity in sharing trade secrets. I can see where these are being lost and there are fewer and fewer new craftsman to pass them on to. Like I said in a comment: You, Sir, are a one man learning center, and a fountain of knowledge. Look forward to your posts and I plan to save each one in my favorites.


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## idiotstick

GnarlyErik said:


> *Shop Tips*
> 
> In the past, most old guys like me jealously protected their shortcuts and tricks to guard their job from competitors. I've seen many old fellows actually turn and place their bodies in front of their work to keep someone else from seeing how they did something, and they were not too bashful about doing so either. But, a lot of the old knowledge is disappearing now and some hard-learned things may disappear forever. I've learned a few tricks in my six decades of work related experience, and wish to pass a few tips along here, as I have time.
> 
> Tricks and shortcuts develop over time, depending on the trade. Some are to save time, make things easier, or more accurate. Some are time-tested and in general use, and others are peculiar to a particular shop or craft. I plan to present some I have used - and still do - hoping others may profit from them. Some you may already know, depending on your level of experience, and others may be new to you. In the end, my hope is overall, these little tips add to your knowledge and experience.
> 
> First, this one, which I call 'Poor Man's Scribe', is simple and obvious. In many shops you use the same few settings to scribe lines in from the edge of your stock - say for a line of screws or nails, or to sand, tape, saw or chisel too. Of course most wood shop people will have a scribing tool with infinite settings which can be used. But, it is much handier to have a simple little jig, or 'multi-tool' for this purpose, which can often fit 75% or more of your scribe spacing needs. And, depending on how big you make it, will not 'rock' like a scribe tends to do.
> 
> The pictures explain this little tool, and it can be made to fit your four most commonly used scribe spacings. In my case it's 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4", all labeled plainly. Put a hole in it for your finger and to hang it by, and PAINT IT RED (or other bright color) to keep it from getting lost in your bench clutter!
> 
> This will take mere minutes to make and save lots of time. Just some short thin battens, tacked/glued to a bit of ply. I have made some of these with bevels at the end to reach into corners, but they are then 'handed'. Let your needs be your guide.


Thanks for that, so obvious, why didn't I think of making one of these!! It will be the first thing I make in the morning, and I think I will probably use it every day.
Pete.


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## patron

GnarlyErik said:


> *Shop Tips*
> 
> In the past, most old guys like me jealously protected their shortcuts and tricks to guard their job from competitors. I've seen many old fellows actually turn and place their bodies in front of their work to keep someone else from seeing how they did something, and they were not too bashful about doing so either. But, a lot of the old knowledge is disappearing now and some hard-learned things may disappear forever. I've learned a few tricks in my six decades of work related experience, and wish to pass a few tips along here, as I have time.
> 
> Tricks and shortcuts develop over time, depending on the trade. Some are to save time, make things easier, or more accurate. Some are time-tested and in general use, and others are peculiar to a particular shop or craft. I plan to present some I have used - and still do - hoping others may profit from them. Some you may already know, depending on your level of experience, and others may be new to you. In the end, my hope is overall, these little tips add to your knowledge and experience.
> 
> First, this one, which I call 'Poor Man's Scribe', is simple and obvious. In many shops you use the same few settings to scribe lines in from the edge of your stock - say for a line of screws or nails, or to sand, tape, saw or chisel too. Of course most wood shop people will have a scribing tool with infinite settings which can be used. But, it is much handier to have a simple little jig, or 'multi-tool' for this purpose, which can often fit 75% or more of your scribe spacing needs. And, depending on how big you make it, will not 'rock' like a scribe tends to do.
> 
> The pictures explain this little tool, and it can be made to fit your four most commonly used scribe spacings. In my case it's 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4", all labeled plainly. Put a hole in it for your finger and to hang it by, and PAINT IT RED (or other bright color) to keep it from getting lost in your bench clutter!
> 
> This will take mere minutes to make and save lots of time. Just some short thin battens, tacked/glued to a bit of ply. I have made some of these with bevels at the end to reach into corners, but they are then 'handed'. Let your needs be your guide.


great helper

here is what i came up with similar 
but different too
mine is in 1/8" graduations
but can be made for special needs too




























thanks for this post
i will keep my eyes open for the next


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## jap

GnarlyErik said:


> *Shop Tips*
> 
> In the past, most old guys like me jealously protected their shortcuts and tricks to guard their job from competitors. I've seen many old fellows actually turn and place their bodies in front of their work to keep someone else from seeing how they did something, and they were not too bashful about doing so either. But, a lot of the old knowledge is disappearing now and some hard-learned things may disappear forever. I've learned a few tricks in my six decades of work related experience, and wish to pass a few tips along here, as I have time.
> 
> Tricks and shortcuts develop over time, depending on the trade. Some are to save time, make things easier, or more accurate. Some are time-tested and in general use, and others are peculiar to a particular shop or craft. I plan to present some I have used - and still do - hoping others may profit from them. Some you may already know, depending on your level of experience, and others may be new to you. In the end, my hope is overall, these little tips add to your knowledge and experience.
> 
> First, this one, which I call 'Poor Man's Scribe', is simple and obvious. In many shops you use the same few settings to scribe lines in from the edge of your stock - say for a line of screws or nails, or to sand, tape, saw or chisel too. Of course most wood shop people will have a scribing tool with infinite settings which can be used. But, it is much handier to have a simple little jig, or 'multi-tool' for this purpose, which can often fit 75% or more of your scribe spacing needs. And, depending on how big you make it, will not 'rock' like a scribe tends to do.
> 
> The pictures explain this little tool, and it can be made to fit your four most commonly used scribe spacings. In my case it's 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4", all labeled plainly. Put a hole in it for your finger and to hang it by, and PAINT IT RED (or other bright color) to keep it from getting lost in your bench clutter!
> 
> This will take mere minutes to make and save lots of time. Just some short thin battens, tacked/glued to a bit of ply. I have made some of these with bevels at the end to reach into corners, but they are then 'handed'. Let your needs be your guide.


cool jig


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## Dennisgrosen

GnarlyErik said:


> *Shop Tips*
> 
> In the past, most old guys like me jealously protected their shortcuts and tricks to guard their job from competitors. I've seen many old fellows actually turn and place their bodies in front of their work to keep someone else from seeing how they did something, and they were not too bashful about doing so either. But, a lot of the old knowledge is disappearing now and some hard-learned things may disappear forever. I've learned a few tricks in my six decades of work related experience, and wish to pass a few tips along here, as I have time.
> 
> Tricks and shortcuts develop over time, depending on the trade. Some are to save time, make things easier, or more accurate. Some are time-tested and in general use, and others are peculiar to a particular shop or craft. I plan to present some I have used - and still do - hoping others may profit from them. Some you may already know, depending on your level of experience, and others may be new to you. In the end, my hope is overall, these little tips add to your knowledge and experience.
> 
> First, this one, which I call 'Poor Man's Scribe', is simple and obvious. In many shops you use the same few settings to scribe lines in from the edge of your stock - say for a line of screws or nails, or to sand, tape, saw or chisel too. Of course most wood shop people will have a scribing tool with infinite settings which can be used. But, it is much handier to have a simple little jig, or 'multi-tool' for this purpose, which can often fit 75% or more of your scribe spacing needs. And, depending on how big you make it, will not 'rock' like a scribe tends to do.
> 
> The pictures explain this little tool, and it can be made to fit your four most commonly used scribe spacings. In my case it's 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4", all labeled plainly. Put a hole in it for your finger and to hang it by, and PAINT IT RED (or other bright color) to keep it from getting lost in your bench clutter!
> 
> This will take mere minutes to make and save lots of time. Just some short thin battens, tacked/glued to a bit of ply. I have made some of these with bevels at the end to reach into corners, but they are then 'handed'. Let your needs be your guide.


thanks for sharing the secrets 

Dennis


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## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Shop Tips*
> 
> In the past, most old guys like me jealously protected their shortcuts and tricks to guard their job from competitors. I've seen many old fellows actually turn and place their bodies in front of their work to keep someone else from seeing how they did something, and they were not too bashful about doing so either. But, a lot of the old knowledge is disappearing now and some hard-learned things may disappear forever. I've learned a few tricks in my six decades of work related experience, and wish to pass a few tips along here, as I have time.
> 
> Tricks and shortcuts develop over time, depending on the trade. Some are to save time, make things easier, or more accurate. Some are time-tested and in general use, and others are peculiar to a particular shop or craft. I plan to present some I have used - and still do - hoping others may profit from them. Some you may already know, depending on your level of experience, and others may be new to you. In the end, my hope is overall, these little tips add to your knowledge and experience.
> 
> First, this one, which I call 'Poor Man's Scribe', is simple and obvious. In many shops you use the same few settings to scribe lines in from the edge of your stock - say for a line of screws or nails, or to sand, tape, saw or chisel too. Of course most wood shop people will have a scribing tool with infinite settings which can be used. But, it is much handier to have a simple little jig, or 'multi-tool' for this purpose, which can often fit 75% or more of your scribe spacing needs. And, depending on how big you make it, will not 'rock' like a scribe tends to do.
> 
> The pictures explain this little tool, and it can be made to fit your four most commonly used scribe spacings. In my case it's 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4", all labeled plainly. Put a hole in it for your finger and to hang it by, and PAINT IT RED (or other bright color) to keep it from getting lost in your bench clutter!
> 
> This will take mere minutes to make and save lots of time. Just some short thin battens, tacked/glued to a bit of ply. I have made some of these with bevels at the end to reach into corners, but they are then 'handed'. Let your needs be your guide.


Very nice patron!


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## Racer2007

GnarlyErik said:


> *Shop Tips*
> 
> In the past, most old guys like me jealously protected their shortcuts and tricks to guard their job from competitors. I've seen many old fellows actually turn and place their bodies in front of their work to keep someone else from seeing how they did something, and they were not too bashful about doing so either. But, a lot of the old knowledge is disappearing now and some hard-learned things may disappear forever. I've learned a few tricks in my six decades of work related experience, and wish to pass a few tips along here, as I have time.
> 
> Tricks and shortcuts develop over time, depending on the trade. Some are to save time, make things easier, or more accurate. Some are time-tested and in general use, and others are peculiar to a particular shop or craft. I plan to present some I have used - and still do - hoping others may profit from them. Some you may already know, depending on your level of experience, and others may be new to you. In the end, my hope is overall, these little tips add to your knowledge and experience.
> 
> First, this one, which I call 'Poor Man's Scribe', is simple and obvious. In many shops you use the same few settings to scribe lines in from the edge of your stock - say for a line of screws or nails, or to sand, tape, saw or chisel too. Of course most wood shop people will have a scribing tool with infinite settings which can be used. But, it is much handier to have a simple little jig, or 'multi-tool' for this purpose, which can often fit 75% or more of your scribe spacing needs. And, depending on how big you make it, will not 'rock' like a scribe tends to do.
> 
> The pictures explain this little tool, and it can be made to fit your four most commonly used scribe spacings. In my case it's 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4", all labeled plainly. Put a hole in it for your finger and to hang it by, and PAINT IT RED (or other bright color) to keep it from getting lost in your bench clutter!
> 
> This will take mere minutes to make and save lots of time. Just some short thin battens, tacked/glued to a bit of ply. I have made some of these with bevels at the end to reach into corners, but they are then 'handed'. Let your needs be your guide.


Now both of those arevery good ideas for common task in the shop.


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## a1Jim

GnarlyErik said:


> *Shop Tips*
> 
> In the past, most old guys like me jealously protected their shortcuts and tricks to guard their job from competitors. I've seen many old fellows actually turn and place their bodies in front of their work to keep someone else from seeing how they did something, and they were not too bashful about doing so either. But, a lot of the old knowledge is disappearing now and some hard-learned things may disappear forever. I've learned a few tricks in my six decades of work related experience, and wish to pass a few tips along here, as I have time.
> 
> Tricks and shortcuts develop over time, depending on the trade. Some are to save time, make things easier, or more accurate. Some are time-tested and in general use, and others are peculiar to a particular shop or craft. I plan to present some I have used - and still do - hoping others may profit from them. Some you may already know, depending on your level of experience, and others may be new to you. In the end, my hope is overall, these little tips add to your knowledge and experience.
> 
> First, this one, which I call 'Poor Man's Scribe', is simple and obvious. In many shops you use the same few settings to scribe lines in from the edge of your stock - say for a line of screws or nails, or to sand, tape, saw or chisel too. Of course most wood shop people will have a scribing tool with infinite settings which can be used. But, it is much handier to have a simple little jig, or 'multi-tool' for this purpose, which can often fit 75% or more of your scribe spacing needs. And, depending on how big you make it, will not 'rock' like a scribe tends to do.
> 
> The pictures explain this little tool, and it can be made to fit your four most commonly used scribe spacings. In my case it's 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4", all labeled plainly. Put a hole in it for your finger and to hang it by, and PAINT IT RED (or other bright color) to keep it from getting lost in your bench clutter!
> 
> This will take mere minutes to make and save lots of time. Just some short thin battens, tacked/glued to a bit of ply. I have made some of these with bevels at the end to reach into corners, but they are then 'handed'. Let your needs be your guide.


Thanks Erik


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## magicmark

GnarlyErik said:


> *Shop Tips*
> 
> In the past, most old guys like me jealously protected their shortcuts and tricks to guard their job from competitors. I've seen many old fellows actually turn and place their bodies in front of their work to keep someone else from seeing how they did something, and they were not too bashful about doing so either. But, a lot of the old knowledge is disappearing now and some hard-learned things may disappear forever. I've learned a few tricks in my six decades of work related experience, and wish to pass a few tips along here, as I have time.
> 
> Tricks and shortcuts develop over time, depending on the trade. Some are to save time, make things easier, or more accurate. Some are time-tested and in general use, and others are peculiar to a particular shop or craft. I plan to present some I have used - and still do - hoping others may profit from them. Some you may already know, depending on your level of experience, and others may be new to you. In the end, my hope is overall, these little tips add to your knowledge and experience.
> 
> First, this one, which I call 'Poor Man's Scribe', is simple and obvious. In many shops you use the same few settings to scribe lines in from the edge of your stock - say for a line of screws or nails, or to sand, tape, saw or chisel too. Of course most wood shop people will have a scribing tool with infinite settings which can be used. But, it is much handier to have a simple little jig, or 'multi-tool' for this purpose, which can often fit 75% or more of your scribe spacing needs. And, depending on how big you make it, will not 'rock' like a scribe tends to do.
> 
> The pictures explain this little tool, and it can be made to fit your four most commonly used scribe spacings. In my case it's 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4", all labeled plainly. Put a hole in it for your finger and to hang it by, and PAINT IT RED (or other bright color) to keep it from getting lost in your bench clutter!
> 
> This will take mere minutes to make and save lots of time. Just some short thin battens, tacked/glued to a bit of ply. I have made some of these with bevels at the end to reach into corners, but they are then 'handed'. Let your needs be your guide.


Great ideas…that's why I love this place! Thanks!


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## JoeinGa

GnarlyErik said:


> *Shop Tips*
> 
> In the past, most old guys like me jealously protected their shortcuts and tricks to guard their job from competitors. I've seen many old fellows actually turn and place their bodies in front of their work to keep someone else from seeing how they did something, and they were not too bashful about doing so either. But, a lot of the old knowledge is disappearing now and some hard-learned things may disappear forever. I've learned a few tricks in my six decades of work related experience, and wish to pass a few tips along here, as I have time.
> 
> Tricks and shortcuts develop over time, depending on the trade. Some are to save time, make things easier, or more accurate. Some are time-tested and in general use, and others are peculiar to a particular shop or craft. I plan to present some I have used - and still do - hoping others may profit from them. Some you may already know, depending on your level of experience, and others may be new to you. In the end, my hope is overall, these little tips add to your knowledge and experience.
> 
> First, this one, which I call 'Poor Man's Scribe', is simple and obvious. In many shops you use the same few settings to scribe lines in from the edge of your stock - say for a line of screws or nails, or to sand, tape, saw or chisel too. Of course most wood shop people will have a scribing tool with infinite settings which can be used. But, it is much handier to have a simple little jig, or 'multi-tool' for this purpose, which can often fit 75% or more of your scribe spacing needs. And, depending on how big you make it, will not 'rock' like a scribe tends to do.
> 
> The pictures explain this little tool, and it can be made to fit your four most commonly used scribe spacings. In my case it's 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4", all labeled plainly. Put a hole in it for your finger and to hang it by, and PAINT IT RED (or other bright color) to keep it from getting lost in your bench clutter!
> 
> This will take mere minutes to make and save lots of time. Just some short thin battens, tacked/glued to a bit of ply. I have made some of these with bevels at the end to reach into corners, but they are then 'handed'. Let your needs be your guide.


How simply marvelous. As said already… Why didnt I think of that! Thanks for the tip!


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## toeachhisown (Eddie)

GnarlyErik said:


> *Shop Tips*
> 
> In the past, most old guys like me jealously protected their shortcuts and tricks to guard their job from competitors. I've seen many old fellows actually turn and place their bodies in front of their work to keep someone else from seeing how they did something, and they were not too bashful about doing so either. But, a lot of the old knowledge is disappearing now and some hard-learned things may disappear forever. I've learned a few tricks in my six decades of work related experience, and wish to pass a few tips along here, as I have time.
> 
> Tricks and shortcuts develop over time, depending on the trade. Some are to save time, make things easier, or more accurate. Some are time-tested and in general use, and others are peculiar to a particular shop or craft. I plan to present some I have used - and still do - hoping others may profit from them. Some you may already know, depending on your level of experience, and others may be new to you. In the end, my hope is overall, these little tips add to your knowledge and experience.
> 
> First, this one, which I call 'Poor Man's Scribe', is simple and obvious. In many shops you use the same few settings to scribe lines in from the edge of your stock - say for a line of screws or nails, or to sand, tape, saw or chisel too. Of course most wood shop people will have a scribing tool with infinite settings which can be used. But, it is much handier to have a simple little jig, or 'multi-tool' for this purpose, which can often fit 75% or more of your scribe spacing needs. And, depending on how big you make it, will not 'rock' like a scribe tends to do.
> 
> The pictures explain this little tool, and it can be made to fit your four most commonly used scribe spacings. In my case it's 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4", all labeled plainly. Put a hole in it for your finger and to hang it by, and PAINT IT RED (or other bright color) to keep it from getting lost in your bench clutter!
> 
> This will take mere minutes to make and save lots of time. Just some short thin battens, tacked/glued to a bit of ply. I have made some of these with bevels at the end to reach into corners, but they are then 'handed'. Let your needs be your guide.


thanks ,learn something every day


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## BassHunter

GnarlyErik said:


> *Shop Tips*
> 
> In the past, most old guys like me jealously protected their shortcuts and tricks to guard their job from competitors. I've seen many old fellows actually turn and place their bodies in front of their work to keep someone else from seeing how they did something, and they were not too bashful about doing so either. But, a lot of the old knowledge is disappearing now and some hard-learned things may disappear forever. I've learned a few tricks in my six decades of work related experience, and wish to pass a few tips along here, as I have time.
> 
> Tricks and shortcuts develop over time, depending on the trade. Some are to save time, make things easier, or more accurate. Some are time-tested and in general use, and others are peculiar to a particular shop or craft. I plan to present some I have used - and still do - hoping others may profit from them. Some you may already know, depending on your level of experience, and others may be new to you. In the end, my hope is overall, these little tips add to your knowledge and experience.
> 
> First, this one, which I call 'Poor Man's Scribe', is simple and obvious. In many shops you use the same few settings to scribe lines in from the edge of your stock - say for a line of screws or nails, or to sand, tape, saw or chisel too. Of course most wood shop people will have a scribing tool with infinite settings which can be used. But, it is much handier to have a simple little jig, or 'multi-tool' for this purpose, which can often fit 75% or more of your scribe spacing needs. And, depending on how big you make it, will not 'rock' like a scribe tends to do.
> 
> The pictures explain this little tool, and it can be made to fit your four most commonly used scribe spacings. In my case it's 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4", all labeled plainly. Put a hole in it for your finger and to hang it by, and PAINT IT RED (or other bright color) to keep it from getting lost in your bench clutter!
> 
> This will take mere minutes to make and save lots of time. Just some short thin battens, tacked/glued to a bit of ply. I have made some of these with bevels at the end to reach into corners, but they are then 'handed'. Let your needs be your guide.


Just found your blog here - As a new woodworker very excited to learn the hobby and try to teach my kids a little too, I am thankful for your willingness to share. As a kid, I spent a little (far too little) time with my dad when he built things - I was amazed at how many ingenious solutions he had to accomplish various tasks. I hate to admit it, I did not retain them. I totally agree, much of this type of knowledge is being lost.

I have marked you as a "Buddy" so as to see all of your posts.

Thanks again!

Basshunter


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## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Shop Tips*
> 
> In the past, most old guys like me jealously protected their shortcuts and tricks to guard their job from competitors. I've seen many old fellows actually turn and place their bodies in front of their work to keep someone else from seeing how they did something, and they were not too bashful about doing so either. But, a lot of the old knowledge is disappearing now and some hard-learned things may disappear forever. I've learned a few tricks in my six decades of work related experience, and wish to pass a few tips along here, as I have time.
> 
> Tricks and shortcuts develop over time, depending on the trade. Some are to save time, make things easier, or more accurate. Some are time-tested and in general use, and others are peculiar to a particular shop or craft. I plan to present some I have used - and still do - hoping others may profit from them. Some you may already know, depending on your level of experience, and others may be new to you. In the end, my hope is overall, these little tips add to your knowledge and experience.
> 
> First, this one, which I call 'Poor Man's Scribe', is simple and obvious. In many shops you use the same few settings to scribe lines in from the edge of your stock - say for a line of screws or nails, or to sand, tape, saw or chisel too. Of course most wood shop people will have a scribing tool with infinite settings which can be used. But, it is much handier to have a simple little jig, or 'multi-tool' for this purpose, which can often fit 75% or more of your scribe spacing needs. And, depending on how big you make it, will not 'rock' like a scribe tends to do.
> 
> The pictures explain this little tool, and it can be made to fit your four most commonly used scribe spacings. In my case it's 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4", all labeled plainly. Put a hole in it for your finger and to hang it by, and PAINT IT RED (or other bright color) to keep it from getting lost in your bench clutter!
> 
> This will take mere minutes to make and save lots of time. Just some short thin battens, tacked/glued to a bit of ply. I have made some of these with bevels at the end to reach into corners, but they are then 'handed'. Let your needs be your guide.


Thanks for all the kind words from everyone! I will try to continue to post things as I think of them and have time to write them up.


----------



## GnarlyErik

*Dividing a line or space into equal parts*

I've heard people say 'What good are learning things in school if you don't use them?'. After my lifetime of careers, I realize you never know what may be useful to you later. One of my most useful high school classes for example, was a one-semester class in typing - a 'fill-in' course - way back when they taught 'Typing'. I guess it is called 'keyboarding' if anything similar is even taught today.

Geometry was another, which at the time I studied it I could see no practical use for. But, as it turns out I used geometry in practice a great deal in my boatbuilding career, particularly in layout work. Thank goodness, enough of it stuck over the years to be very useful.

Case in point: Dividing a Line (or space) into equal parts;

Sometimes you need to divide a line, space or length into a number of smaller parts, all equal to each other. For example, suppose you have a space or piece of material 27-7/8" long which you need to divide into five equal parts. You can do this mathematically and end up with each part needing to be exactly 5.575" long. But, now you must convert this into English measurement equivalents (inches and fractions) and then try to measure these divisions with your ruler or scale. This is very hard to do accurately. Oddly, many common dimensions are hard to divide using English measures - for example 24" by 5 or 7 (4.8" & approx. 3.43").

(And, let me say right here as an aside, that even though I have lived with English measurements all my life, things are much easier using metrics! Among all nations, only Burma, Sierra Leone and the US have never officially adopted the international metric system . . . ! That being said, you CAN buy 'engineers' scales which divide English measurements into tenths, but few besides engineers and machinists use those.)

But, back to my example; in three steps, you can quickly and easily divide any length by any number of divisions graphically using simple geometry. For those who are not familiar with this, I present it to you here:

1. Establish (draw) lines at either end of your length or space to be divided, and at right angles (perpendicular) to it. See image #1.










(Image 1 - space to be divided)

2. Place your ruler or scale between the two perpendiculars and angle it until you have a measurement you can easily divide by the number of equal spaces needed. For Instance, in the example above, you can easily use 30" and divide that by 5" increments to get 6 equal divisions. (Or, by 7-1/2" increments for four divisions, by 5" for six divisions, by 1" for thirty divisions and so on.) See image #2 & #3.









(Image 2 - make tic marks at dividing points)









(Image 3 - tic mark at each dividing point)

3. Mark these points (I always use a short line against the scale with a tic mark at the point for accuracy), and lines drawn at right angles from the original line (or space), through your points gives the equal divisions. Saw cuts centered on these lines will make exactly equal parts if you are sufficiently careful. See image #4:









(Image 4 - draw perpendicular from each point back to line or space being divided)

If you need to divide a plank into a number of equal widths, you may use either edge of the plank as your 'perpendiculars'. Slant your scale and divide across from edge to edge at each end of your plank, and lines drawn with a straight edge through matching points will divide the plank into equal widths. A little thought shows you can even lay out a number of exactly equal tapers by adjusting the length of one end point! See image #5.









(Image 5 - laying scale at an angle between lines to make the divisions equal)

Hopefully, the pictures provided describe this well enough to understand.


----------



## HillbillyShooter

GnarlyErik said:


> *Dividing a line or space into equal parts*
> 
> I've heard people say 'What good are learning things in school if you don't use them?'. After my lifetime of careers, I realize you never know what may be useful to you later. One of my most useful high school classes for example, was a one-semester class in typing - a 'fill-in' course - way back when they taught 'Typing'. I guess it is called 'keyboarding' if anything similar is even taught today.
> 
> Geometry was another, which at the time I studied it I could see no practical use for. But, as it turns out I used geometry in practice a great deal in my boatbuilding career, particularly in layout work. Thank goodness, enough of it stuck over the years to be very useful.
> 
> Case in point: Dividing a Line (or space) into equal parts;
> 
> Sometimes you need to divide a line, space or length into a number of smaller parts, all equal to each other. For example, suppose you have a space or piece of material 27-7/8" long which you need to divide into five equal parts. You can do this mathematically and end up with each part needing to be exactly 5.575" long. But, now you must convert this into English measurement equivalents (inches and fractions) and then try to measure these divisions with your ruler or scale. This is very hard to do accurately. Oddly, many common dimensions are hard to divide using English measures - for example 24" by 5 or 7 (4.8" & approx. 3.43").
> 
> (And, let me say right here as an aside, that even though I have lived with English measurements all my life, things are much easier using metrics! Among all nations, only Burma, Sierra Leone and the US have never officially adopted the international metric system . . . ! That being said, you CAN buy 'engineers' scales which divide English measurements into tenths, but few besides engineers and machinists use those.)
> 
> But, back to my example; in three steps, you can quickly and easily divide any length by any number of divisions graphically using simple geometry. For those who are not familiar with this, I present it to you here:
> 
> 1. Establish (draw) lines at either end of your length or space to be divided, and at right angles (perpendicular) to it. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 1 - space to be divided)
> 
> 2. Place your ruler or scale between the two perpendiculars and angle it until you have a measurement you can easily divide by the number of equal spaces needed. For Instance, in the example above, you can easily use 30" and divide that by 5" increments to get 6 equal divisions. (Or, by 7-1/2" increments for four divisions, by 5" for six divisions, by 1" for thirty divisions and so on.) See image #2 & #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 2 - make tic marks at dividing points)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 3 - tic mark at each dividing point)
> 
> 3. Mark these points (I always use a short line against the scale with a tic mark at the point for accuracy), and lines drawn at right angles from the original line (or space), through your points gives the equal divisions. Saw cuts centered on these lines will make exactly equal parts if you are sufficiently careful. See image #4:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 4 - draw perpendicular from each point back to line or space being divided)
> 
> If you need to divide a plank into a number of equal widths, you may use either edge of the plank as your 'perpendiculars'. Slant your scale and divide across from edge to edge at each end of your plank, and lines drawn with a straight edge through matching points will divide the plank into equal widths. A little thought shows you can even lay out a number of exactly equal tapers by adjusting the length of one end point! See image #5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 5 - laying scale at an angle between lines to make the divisions equal)
> 
> Hopefully, the pictures provided describe this well enough to understand.


Thanks for the reminder on geometry.

You're 100 % about not knowing what will and what will not be of benefit in school and life. I agree about both typing and geometry. Another "pud" course that I had to take in college, but which has helped immensely in life was "Business Correspondence". The first thing that course taught was to never start a paragraph with "I" as it showed a totally egotistical bent-it's amazing how many people start every paragraph with I.

Another contribution for my "Favorites" file.


----------



## Grumpymike

GnarlyErik said:


> *Dividing a line or space into equal parts*
> 
> I've heard people say 'What good are learning things in school if you don't use them?'. After my lifetime of careers, I realize you never know what may be useful to you later. One of my most useful high school classes for example, was a one-semester class in typing - a 'fill-in' course - way back when they taught 'Typing'. I guess it is called 'keyboarding' if anything similar is even taught today.
> 
> Geometry was another, which at the time I studied it I could see no practical use for. But, as it turns out I used geometry in practice a great deal in my boatbuilding career, particularly in layout work. Thank goodness, enough of it stuck over the years to be very useful.
> 
> Case in point: Dividing a Line (or space) into equal parts;
> 
> Sometimes you need to divide a line, space or length into a number of smaller parts, all equal to each other. For example, suppose you have a space or piece of material 27-7/8" long which you need to divide into five equal parts. You can do this mathematically and end up with each part needing to be exactly 5.575" long. But, now you must convert this into English measurement equivalents (inches and fractions) and then try to measure these divisions with your ruler or scale. This is very hard to do accurately. Oddly, many common dimensions are hard to divide using English measures - for example 24" by 5 or 7 (4.8" & approx. 3.43").
> 
> (And, let me say right here as an aside, that even though I have lived with English measurements all my life, things are much easier using metrics! Among all nations, only Burma, Sierra Leone and the US have never officially adopted the international metric system . . . ! That being said, you CAN buy 'engineers' scales which divide English measurements into tenths, but few besides engineers and machinists use those.)
> 
> But, back to my example; in three steps, you can quickly and easily divide any length by any number of divisions graphically using simple geometry. For those who are not familiar with this, I present it to you here:
> 
> 1. Establish (draw) lines at either end of your length or space to be divided, and at right angles (perpendicular) to it. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 1 - space to be divided)
> 
> 2. Place your ruler or scale between the two perpendiculars and angle it until you have a measurement you can easily divide by the number of equal spaces needed. For Instance, in the example above, you can easily use 30" and divide that by 5" increments to get 6 equal divisions. (Or, by 7-1/2" increments for four divisions, by 5" for six divisions, by 1" for thirty divisions and so on.) See image #2 & #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 2 - make tic marks at dividing points)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 3 - tic mark at each dividing point)
> 
> 3. Mark these points (I always use a short line against the scale with a tic mark at the point for accuracy), and lines drawn at right angles from the original line (or space), through your points gives the equal divisions. Saw cuts centered on these lines will make exactly equal parts if you are sufficiently careful. See image #4:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 4 - draw perpendicular from each point back to line or space being divided)
> 
> If you need to divide a plank into a number of equal widths, you may use either edge of the plank as your 'perpendiculars'. Slant your scale and divide across from edge to edge at each end of your plank, and lines drawn with a straight edge through matching points will divide the plank into equal widths. A little thought shows you can even lay out a number of exactly equal tapers by adjusting the length of one end point! See image #5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 5 - laying scale at an angle between lines to make the divisions equal)
> 
> Hopefully, the pictures provided describe this well enough to understand.


Hmmmm, need to ponder this for a bit.


----------



## a1Jim

GnarlyErik said:


> *Dividing a line or space into equal parts*
> 
> I've heard people say 'What good are learning things in school if you don't use them?'. After my lifetime of careers, I realize you never know what may be useful to you later. One of my most useful high school classes for example, was a one-semester class in typing - a 'fill-in' course - way back when they taught 'Typing'. I guess it is called 'keyboarding' if anything similar is even taught today.
> 
> Geometry was another, which at the time I studied it I could see no practical use for. But, as it turns out I used geometry in practice a great deal in my boatbuilding career, particularly in layout work. Thank goodness, enough of it stuck over the years to be very useful.
> 
> Case in point: Dividing a Line (or space) into equal parts;
> 
> Sometimes you need to divide a line, space or length into a number of smaller parts, all equal to each other. For example, suppose you have a space or piece of material 27-7/8" long which you need to divide into five equal parts. You can do this mathematically and end up with each part needing to be exactly 5.575" long. But, now you must convert this into English measurement equivalents (inches and fractions) and then try to measure these divisions with your ruler or scale. This is very hard to do accurately. Oddly, many common dimensions are hard to divide using English measures - for example 24" by 5 or 7 (4.8" & approx. 3.43").
> 
> (And, let me say right here as an aside, that even though I have lived with English measurements all my life, things are much easier using metrics! Among all nations, only Burma, Sierra Leone and the US have never officially adopted the international metric system . . . ! That being said, you CAN buy 'engineers' scales which divide English measurements into tenths, but few besides engineers and machinists use those.)
> 
> But, back to my example; in three steps, you can quickly and easily divide any length by any number of divisions graphically using simple geometry. For those who are not familiar with this, I present it to you here:
> 
> 1. Establish (draw) lines at either end of your length or space to be divided, and at right angles (perpendicular) to it. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 1 - space to be divided)
> 
> 2. Place your ruler or scale between the two perpendiculars and angle it until you have a measurement you can easily divide by the number of equal spaces needed. For Instance, in the example above, you can easily use 30" and divide that by 5" increments to get 6 equal divisions. (Or, by 7-1/2" increments for four divisions, by 5" for six divisions, by 1" for thirty divisions and so on.) See image #2 & #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 2 - make tic marks at dividing points)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 3 - tic mark at each dividing point)
> 
> 3. Mark these points (I always use a short line against the scale with a tic mark at the point for accuracy), and lines drawn at right angles from the original line (or space), through your points gives the equal divisions. Saw cuts centered on these lines will make exactly equal parts if you are sufficiently careful. See image #4:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 4 - draw perpendicular from each point back to line or space being divided)
> 
> If you need to divide a plank into a number of equal widths, you may use either edge of the plank as your 'perpendiculars'. Slant your scale and divide across from edge to edge at each end of your plank, and lines drawn with a straight edge through matching points will divide the plank into equal widths. A little thought shows you can even lay out a number of exactly equal tapers by adjusting the length of one end point! See image #5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 5 - laying scale at an angle between lines to make the divisions equal)
> 
> Hopefully, the pictures provided describe this well enough to understand.


This is a trick I learned a long time ago and have been passing it on to my students. Thanks for passing it on here Erik I'm sure many folks have not seen this before.


----------



## hoosier0311

GnarlyErik said:


> *Dividing a line or space into equal parts*
> 
> I've heard people say 'What good are learning things in school if you don't use them?'. After my lifetime of careers, I realize you never know what may be useful to you later. One of my most useful high school classes for example, was a one-semester class in typing - a 'fill-in' course - way back when they taught 'Typing'. I guess it is called 'keyboarding' if anything similar is even taught today.
> 
> Geometry was another, which at the time I studied it I could see no practical use for. But, as it turns out I used geometry in practice a great deal in my boatbuilding career, particularly in layout work. Thank goodness, enough of it stuck over the years to be very useful.
> 
> Case in point: Dividing a Line (or space) into equal parts;
> 
> Sometimes you need to divide a line, space or length into a number of smaller parts, all equal to each other. For example, suppose you have a space or piece of material 27-7/8" long which you need to divide into five equal parts. You can do this mathematically and end up with each part needing to be exactly 5.575" long. But, now you must convert this into English measurement equivalents (inches and fractions) and then try to measure these divisions with your ruler or scale. This is very hard to do accurately. Oddly, many common dimensions are hard to divide using English measures - for example 24" by 5 or 7 (4.8" & approx. 3.43").
> 
> (And, let me say right here as an aside, that even though I have lived with English measurements all my life, things are much easier using metrics! Among all nations, only Burma, Sierra Leone and the US have never officially adopted the international metric system . . . ! That being said, you CAN buy 'engineers' scales which divide English measurements into tenths, but few besides engineers and machinists use those.)
> 
> But, back to my example; in three steps, you can quickly and easily divide any length by any number of divisions graphically using simple geometry. For those who are not familiar with this, I present it to you here:
> 
> 1. Establish (draw) lines at either end of your length or space to be divided, and at right angles (perpendicular) to it. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 1 - space to be divided)
> 
> 2. Place your ruler or scale between the two perpendiculars and angle it until you have a measurement you can easily divide by the number of equal spaces needed. For Instance, in the example above, you can easily use 30" and divide that by 5" increments to get 6 equal divisions. (Or, by 7-1/2" increments for four divisions, by 5" for six divisions, by 1" for thirty divisions and so on.) See image #2 & #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 2 - make tic marks at dividing points)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 3 - tic mark at each dividing point)
> 
> 3. Mark these points (I always use a short line against the scale with a tic mark at the point for accuracy), and lines drawn at right angles from the original line (or space), through your points gives the equal divisions. Saw cuts centered on these lines will make exactly equal parts if you are sufficiently careful. See image #4:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 4 - draw perpendicular from each point back to line or space being divided)
> 
> If you need to divide a plank into a number of equal widths, you may use either edge of the plank as your 'perpendiculars'. Slant your scale and divide across from edge to edge at each end of your plank, and lines drawn with a straight edge through matching points will divide the plank into equal widths. A little thought shows you can even lay out a number of exactly equal tapers by adjusting the length of one end point! See image #5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 5 - laying scale at an angle between lines to make the divisions equal)
> 
> Hopefully, the pictures provided describe this well enough to understand.


This musta been one of those lessons I failed to pay attention to. This can be a big time saver, thanks for passing this tip on!


----------



## FirehouseWoodworking

GnarlyErik said:


> *Dividing a line or space into equal parts*
> 
> I've heard people say 'What good are learning things in school if you don't use them?'. After my lifetime of careers, I realize you never know what may be useful to you later. One of my most useful high school classes for example, was a one-semester class in typing - a 'fill-in' course - way back when they taught 'Typing'. I guess it is called 'keyboarding' if anything similar is even taught today.
> 
> Geometry was another, which at the time I studied it I could see no practical use for. But, as it turns out I used geometry in practice a great deal in my boatbuilding career, particularly in layout work. Thank goodness, enough of it stuck over the years to be very useful.
> 
> Case in point: Dividing a Line (or space) into equal parts;
> 
> Sometimes you need to divide a line, space or length into a number of smaller parts, all equal to each other. For example, suppose you have a space or piece of material 27-7/8" long which you need to divide into five equal parts. You can do this mathematically and end up with each part needing to be exactly 5.575" long. But, now you must convert this into English measurement equivalents (inches and fractions) and then try to measure these divisions with your ruler or scale. This is very hard to do accurately. Oddly, many common dimensions are hard to divide using English measures - for example 24" by 5 or 7 (4.8" & approx. 3.43").
> 
> (And, let me say right here as an aside, that even though I have lived with English measurements all my life, things are much easier using metrics! Among all nations, only Burma, Sierra Leone and the US have never officially adopted the international metric system . . . ! That being said, you CAN buy 'engineers' scales which divide English measurements into tenths, but few besides engineers and machinists use those.)
> 
> But, back to my example; in three steps, you can quickly and easily divide any length by any number of divisions graphically using simple geometry. For those who are not familiar with this, I present it to you here:
> 
> 1. Establish (draw) lines at either end of your length or space to be divided, and at right angles (perpendicular) to it. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 1 - space to be divided)
> 
> 2. Place your ruler or scale between the two perpendiculars and angle it until you have a measurement you can easily divide by the number of equal spaces needed. For Instance, in the example above, you can easily use 30" and divide that by 5" increments to get 6 equal divisions. (Or, by 7-1/2" increments for four divisions, by 5" for six divisions, by 1" for thirty divisions and so on.) See image #2 & #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 2 - make tic marks at dividing points)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 3 - tic mark at each dividing point)
> 
> 3. Mark these points (I always use a short line against the scale with a tic mark at the point for accuracy), and lines drawn at right angles from the original line (or space), through your points gives the equal divisions. Saw cuts centered on these lines will make exactly equal parts if you are sufficiently careful. See image #4:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 4 - draw perpendicular from each point back to line or space being divided)
> 
> If you need to divide a plank into a number of equal widths, you may use either edge of the plank as your 'perpendiculars'. Slant your scale and divide across from edge to edge at each end of your plank, and lines drawn with a straight edge through matching points will divide the plank into equal widths. A little thought shows you can even lay out a number of exactly equal tapers by adjusting the length of one end point! See image #5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 5 - laying scale at an angle between lines to make the divisions equal)
> 
> Hopefully, the pictures provided describe this well enough to understand.


Well done tutorial. I learned to do this years ago but no one sat down and gave me that much detail! Thank you!

Cheers!


----------



## Dennisgrosen

GnarlyErik said:


> *Dividing a line or space into equal parts*
> 
> I've heard people say 'What good are learning things in school if you don't use them?'. After my lifetime of careers, I realize you never know what may be useful to you later. One of my most useful high school classes for example, was a one-semester class in typing - a 'fill-in' course - way back when they taught 'Typing'. I guess it is called 'keyboarding' if anything similar is even taught today.
> 
> Geometry was another, which at the time I studied it I could see no practical use for. But, as it turns out I used geometry in practice a great deal in my boatbuilding career, particularly in layout work. Thank goodness, enough of it stuck over the years to be very useful.
> 
> Case in point: Dividing a Line (or space) into equal parts;
> 
> Sometimes you need to divide a line, space or length into a number of smaller parts, all equal to each other. For example, suppose you have a space or piece of material 27-7/8" long which you need to divide into five equal parts. You can do this mathematically and end up with each part needing to be exactly 5.575" long. But, now you must convert this into English measurement equivalents (inches and fractions) and then try to measure these divisions with your ruler or scale. This is very hard to do accurately. Oddly, many common dimensions are hard to divide using English measures - for example 24" by 5 or 7 (4.8" & approx. 3.43").
> 
> (And, let me say right here as an aside, that even though I have lived with English measurements all my life, things are much easier using metrics! Among all nations, only Burma, Sierra Leone and the US have never officially adopted the international metric system . . . ! That being said, you CAN buy 'engineers' scales which divide English measurements into tenths, but few besides engineers and machinists use those.)
> 
> But, back to my example; in three steps, you can quickly and easily divide any length by any number of divisions graphically using simple geometry. For those who are not familiar with this, I present it to you here:
> 
> 1. Establish (draw) lines at either end of your length or space to be divided, and at right angles (perpendicular) to it. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 1 - space to be divided)
> 
> 2. Place your ruler or scale between the two perpendiculars and angle it until you have a measurement you can easily divide by the number of equal spaces needed. For Instance, in the example above, you can easily use 30" and divide that by 5" increments to get 6 equal divisions. (Or, by 7-1/2" increments for four divisions, by 5" for six divisions, by 1" for thirty divisions and so on.) See image #2 & #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 2 - make tic marks at dividing points)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 3 - tic mark at each dividing point)
> 
> 3. Mark these points (I always use a short line against the scale with a tic mark at the point for accuracy), and lines drawn at right angles from the original line (or space), through your points gives the equal divisions. Saw cuts centered on these lines will make exactly equal parts if you are sufficiently careful. See image #4:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 4 - draw perpendicular from each point back to line or space being divided)
> 
> If you need to divide a plank into a number of equal widths, you may use either edge of the plank as your 'perpendiculars'. Slant your scale and divide across from edge to edge at each end of your plank, and lines drawn with a straight edge through matching points will divide the plank into equal widths. A little thought shows you can even lay out a number of exactly equal tapers by adjusting the length of one end point! See image #5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 5 - laying scale at an angle between lines to make the divisions equal)
> 
> Hopefully, the pictures provided describe this well enough to understand.


one I learned from an old master way back in the stone age 
but one I havn´t thought about was the last one with tappered widts 
keep let them come 

Dennis


----------



## littlecope

GnarlyErik said:


> *Dividing a line or space into equal parts*
> 
> I've heard people say 'What good are learning things in school if you don't use them?'. After my lifetime of careers, I realize you never know what may be useful to you later. One of my most useful high school classes for example, was a one-semester class in typing - a 'fill-in' course - way back when they taught 'Typing'. I guess it is called 'keyboarding' if anything similar is even taught today.
> 
> Geometry was another, which at the time I studied it I could see no practical use for. But, as it turns out I used geometry in practice a great deal in my boatbuilding career, particularly in layout work. Thank goodness, enough of it stuck over the years to be very useful.
> 
> Case in point: Dividing a Line (or space) into equal parts;
> 
> Sometimes you need to divide a line, space or length into a number of smaller parts, all equal to each other. For example, suppose you have a space or piece of material 27-7/8" long which you need to divide into five equal parts. You can do this mathematically and end up with each part needing to be exactly 5.575" long. But, now you must convert this into English measurement equivalents (inches and fractions) and then try to measure these divisions with your ruler or scale. This is very hard to do accurately. Oddly, many common dimensions are hard to divide using English measures - for example 24" by 5 or 7 (4.8" & approx. 3.43").
> 
> (And, let me say right here as an aside, that even though I have lived with English measurements all my life, things are much easier using metrics! Among all nations, only Burma, Sierra Leone and the US have never officially adopted the international metric system . . . ! That being said, you CAN buy 'engineers' scales which divide English measurements into tenths, but few besides engineers and machinists use those.)
> 
> But, back to my example; in three steps, you can quickly and easily divide any length by any number of divisions graphically using simple geometry. For those who are not familiar with this, I present it to you here:
> 
> 1. Establish (draw) lines at either end of your length or space to be divided, and at right angles (perpendicular) to it. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 1 - space to be divided)
> 
> 2. Place your ruler or scale between the two perpendiculars and angle it until you have a measurement you can easily divide by the number of equal spaces needed. For Instance, in the example above, you can easily use 30" and divide that by 5" increments to get 6 equal divisions. (Or, by 7-1/2" increments for four divisions, by 5" for six divisions, by 1" for thirty divisions and so on.) See image #2 & #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 2 - make tic marks at dividing points)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 3 - tic mark at each dividing point)
> 
> 3. Mark these points (I always use a short line against the scale with a tic mark at the point for accuracy), and lines drawn at right angles from the original line (or space), through your points gives the equal divisions. Saw cuts centered on these lines will make exactly equal parts if you are sufficiently careful. See image #4:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 4 - draw perpendicular from each point back to line or space being divided)
> 
> If you need to divide a plank into a number of equal widths, you may use either edge of the plank as your 'perpendiculars'. Slant your scale and divide across from edge to edge at each end of your plank, and lines drawn with a straight edge through matching points will divide the plank into equal widths. A little thought shows you can even lay out a number of exactly equal tapers by adjusting the length of one end point! See image #5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 5 - laying scale at an angle between lines to make the divisions equal)
> 
> Hopefully, the pictures provided describe this well enough to understand.


Great Trick Eric!! 
When I use that method for marking finger joints, or halving a board, I found it to be most accurate if the marks are made parallel to the boards edge from the divisions…


----------



## patron

GnarlyErik said:


> *Dividing a line or space into equal parts*
> 
> I've heard people say 'What good are learning things in school if you don't use them?'. After my lifetime of careers, I realize you never know what may be useful to you later. One of my most useful high school classes for example, was a one-semester class in typing - a 'fill-in' course - way back when they taught 'Typing'. I guess it is called 'keyboarding' if anything similar is even taught today.
> 
> Geometry was another, which at the time I studied it I could see no practical use for. But, as it turns out I used geometry in practice a great deal in my boatbuilding career, particularly in layout work. Thank goodness, enough of it stuck over the years to be very useful.
> 
> Case in point: Dividing a Line (or space) into equal parts;
> 
> Sometimes you need to divide a line, space or length into a number of smaller parts, all equal to each other. For example, suppose you have a space or piece of material 27-7/8" long which you need to divide into five equal parts. You can do this mathematically and end up with each part needing to be exactly 5.575" long. But, now you must convert this into English measurement equivalents (inches and fractions) and then try to measure these divisions with your ruler or scale. This is very hard to do accurately. Oddly, many common dimensions are hard to divide using English measures - for example 24" by 5 or 7 (4.8" & approx. 3.43").
> 
> (And, let me say right here as an aside, that even though I have lived with English measurements all my life, things are much easier using metrics! Among all nations, only Burma, Sierra Leone and the US have never officially adopted the international metric system . . . ! That being said, you CAN buy 'engineers' scales which divide English measurements into tenths, but few besides engineers and machinists use those.)
> 
> But, back to my example; in three steps, you can quickly and easily divide any length by any number of divisions graphically using simple geometry. For those who are not familiar with this, I present it to you here:
> 
> 1. Establish (draw) lines at either end of your length or space to be divided, and at right angles (perpendicular) to it. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 1 - space to be divided)
> 
> 2. Place your ruler or scale between the two perpendiculars and angle it until you have a measurement you can easily divide by the number of equal spaces needed. For Instance, in the example above, you can easily use 30" and divide that by 5" increments to get 6 equal divisions. (Or, by 7-1/2" increments for four divisions, by 5" for six divisions, by 1" for thirty divisions and so on.) See image #2 & #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 2 - make tic marks at dividing points)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 3 - tic mark at each dividing point)
> 
> 3. Mark these points (I always use a short line against the scale with a tic mark at the point for accuracy), and lines drawn at right angles from the original line (or space), through your points gives the equal divisions. Saw cuts centered on these lines will make exactly equal parts if you are sufficiently careful. See image #4:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 4 - draw perpendicular from each point back to line or space being divided)
> 
> If you need to divide a plank into a number of equal widths, you may use either edge of the plank as your 'perpendiculars'. Slant your scale and divide across from edge to edge at each end of your plank, and lines drawn with a straight edge through matching points will divide the plank into equal widths. A little thought shows you can even lay out a number of exactly equal tapers by adjusting the length of one end point! See image #5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 5 - laying scale at an angle between lines to make the divisions equal)
> 
> Hopefully, the pictures provided describe this well enough to understand.


it always amazes me 
how many building pro's 
don't know some of the other trades secrets
and the tools they use

from architecture 
drafting 
boat building
glass cutting
upholstery
to name a few

that t square they sell for sheetrock
can be up to 1/4" off at 4'
the glass guys have a square that is right on
with one side lower to hook on an edge

well and boat builders
have countless ways to do something
like make bulkheads
with a story board
and a taper or squiggly 'arm'

keep 'em coming eric
we can all learn 
and thank you


----------



## shipwright

GnarlyErik said:


> *Dividing a line or space into equal parts*
> 
> I've heard people say 'What good are learning things in school if you don't use them?'. After my lifetime of careers, I realize you never know what may be useful to you later. One of my most useful high school classes for example, was a one-semester class in typing - a 'fill-in' course - way back when they taught 'Typing'. I guess it is called 'keyboarding' if anything similar is even taught today.
> 
> Geometry was another, which at the time I studied it I could see no practical use for. But, as it turns out I used geometry in practice a great deal in my boatbuilding career, particularly in layout work. Thank goodness, enough of it stuck over the years to be very useful.
> 
> Case in point: Dividing a Line (or space) into equal parts;
> 
> Sometimes you need to divide a line, space or length into a number of smaller parts, all equal to each other. For example, suppose you have a space or piece of material 27-7/8" long which you need to divide into five equal parts. You can do this mathematically and end up with each part needing to be exactly 5.575" long. But, now you must convert this into English measurement equivalents (inches and fractions) and then try to measure these divisions with your ruler or scale. This is very hard to do accurately. Oddly, many common dimensions are hard to divide using English measures - for example 24" by 5 or 7 (4.8" & approx. 3.43").
> 
> (And, let me say right here as an aside, that even though I have lived with English measurements all my life, things are much easier using metrics! Among all nations, only Burma, Sierra Leone and the US have never officially adopted the international metric system . . . ! That being said, you CAN buy 'engineers' scales which divide English measurements into tenths, but few besides engineers and machinists use those.)
> 
> But, back to my example; in three steps, you can quickly and easily divide any length by any number of divisions graphically using simple geometry. For those who are not familiar with this, I present it to you here:
> 
> 1. Establish (draw) lines at either end of your length or space to be divided, and at right angles (perpendicular) to it. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 1 - space to be divided)
> 
> 2. Place your ruler or scale between the two perpendiculars and angle it until you have a measurement you can easily divide by the number of equal spaces needed. For Instance, in the example above, you can easily use 30" and divide that by 5" increments to get 6 equal divisions. (Or, by 7-1/2" increments for four divisions, by 5" for six divisions, by 1" for thirty divisions and so on.) See image #2 & #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 2 - make tic marks at dividing points)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 3 - tic mark at each dividing point)
> 
> 3. Mark these points (I always use a short line against the scale with a tic mark at the point for accuracy), and lines drawn at right angles from the original line (or space), through your points gives the equal divisions. Saw cuts centered on these lines will make exactly equal parts if you are sufficiently careful. See image #4:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 4 - draw perpendicular from each point back to line or space being divided)
> 
> If you need to divide a plank into a number of equal widths, you may use either edge of the plank as your 'perpendiculars'. Slant your scale and divide across from edge to edge at each end of your plank, and lines drawn with a straight edge through matching points will divide the plank into equal widths. A little thought shows you can even lay out a number of exactly equal tapers by adjusting the length of one end point! See image #5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 5 - laying scale at an angle between lines to make the divisions equal)
> 
> Hopefully, the pictures provided describe this well enough to understand.


Good one Eric. 
Have you ever used a "Texas rule" to divide topside planking equally as it tapers both ways from max girth?


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Dividing a line or space into equal parts*
> 
> I've heard people say 'What good are learning things in school if you don't use them?'. After my lifetime of careers, I realize you never know what may be useful to you later. One of my most useful high school classes for example, was a one-semester class in typing - a 'fill-in' course - way back when they taught 'Typing'. I guess it is called 'keyboarding' if anything similar is even taught today.
> 
> Geometry was another, which at the time I studied it I could see no practical use for. But, as it turns out I used geometry in practice a great deal in my boatbuilding career, particularly in layout work. Thank goodness, enough of it stuck over the years to be very useful.
> 
> Case in point: Dividing a Line (or space) into equal parts;
> 
> Sometimes you need to divide a line, space or length into a number of smaller parts, all equal to each other. For example, suppose you have a space or piece of material 27-7/8" long which you need to divide into five equal parts. You can do this mathematically and end up with each part needing to be exactly 5.575" long. But, now you must convert this into English measurement equivalents (inches and fractions) and then try to measure these divisions with your ruler or scale. This is very hard to do accurately. Oddly, many common dimensions are hard to divide using English measures - for example 24" by 5 or 7 (4.8" & approx. 3.43").
> 
> (And, let me say right here as an aside, that even though I have lived with English measurements all my life, things are much easier using metrics! Among all nations, only Burma, Sierra Leone and the US have never officially adopted the international metric system . . . ! That being said, you CAN buy 'engineers' scales which divide English measurements into tenths, but few besides engineers and machinists use those.)
> 
> But, back to my example; in three steps, you can quickly and easily divide any length by any number of divisions graphically using simple geometry. For those who are not familiar with this, I present it to you here:
> 
> 1. Establish (draw) lines at either end of your length or space to be divided, and at right angles (perpendicular) to it. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 1 - space to be divided)
> 
> 2. Place your ruler or scale between the two perpendiculars and angle it until you have a measurement you can easily divide by the number of equal spaces needed. For Instance, in the example above, you can easily use 30" and divide that by 5" increments to get 6 equal divisions. (Or, by 7-1/2" increments for four divisions, by 5" for six divisions, by 1" for thirty divisions and so on.) See image #2 & #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 2 - make tic marks at dividing points)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 3 - tic mark at each dividing point)
> 
> 3. Mark these points (I always use a short line against the scale with a tic mark at the point for accuracy), and lines drawn at right angles from the original line (or space), through your points gives the equal divisions. Saw cuts centered on these lines will make exactly equal parts if you are sufficiently careful. See image #4:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 4 - draw perpendicular from each point back to line or space being divided)
> 
> If you need to divide a plank into a number of equal widths, you may use either edge of the plank as your 'perpendiculars'. Slant your scale and divide across from edge to edge at each end of your plank, and lines drawn with a straight edge through matching points will divide the plank into equal widths. A little thought shows you can even lay out a number of exactly equal tapers by adjusting the length of one end point! See image #5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 5 - laying scale at an angle between lines to make the divisions equal)
> 
> Hopefully, the pictures provided describe this well enough to understand.


Patron - Most scratch or one-off boat builders have or build a basic set of lay out tools for 'lofting' (full size lay out of the boats 'lines'). This includes shop-built three-sided squares, long straight edges and several sorts of specially made long 'lofting battens' up to 20' long or more. Some battens will be thicker, rectangular in section and stiffer, others squarer in section, more springy, and be tapered towards the ends where they need to handle tighter curves.

Lofting a boat from plans is an art in itself, requiring a range of skills and patience, not to mention flexibility and a strong back. You haven't really done lay out work until you try lofting, making patterns for, and then accurately building a curved, strongly raked transom for example! That will exercise the range of all your drafting, geometric, patience, and accuracy skills!

And yes Shipwright, I believe your 'Texas Rule' is what I call a 'planking gauge', made specifically for each boat size or model. The concept is somewhat like dividing with a ruler, only specific to a particular boat and more specialized.


----------



## shipwright

GnarlyErik said:


> *Dividing a line or space into equal parts*
> 
> I've heard people say 'What good are learning things in school if you don't use them?'. After my lifetime of careers, I realize you never know what may be useful to you later. One of my most useful high school classes for example, was a one-semester class in typing - a 'fill-in' course - way back when they taught 'Typing'. I guess it is called 'keyboarding' if anything similar is even taught today.
> 
> Geometry was another, which at the time I studied it I could see no practical use for. But, as it turns out I used geometry in practice a great deal in my boatbuilding career, particularly in layout work. Thank goodness, enough of it stuck over the years to be very useful.
> 
> Case in point: Dividing a Line (or space) into equal parts;
> 
> Sometimes you need to divide a line, space or length into a number of smaller parts, all equal to each other. For example, suppose you have a space or piece of material 27-7/8" long which you need to divide into five equal parts. You can do this mathematically and end up with each part needing to be exactly 5.575" long. But, now you must convert this into English measurement equivalents (inches and fractions) and then try to measure these divisions with your ruler or scale. This is very hard to do accurately. Oddly, many common dimensions are hard to divide using English measures - for example 24" by 5 or 7 (4.8" & approx. 3.43").
> 
> (And, let me say right here as an aside, that even though I have lived with English measurements all my life, things are much easier using metrics! Among all nations, only Burma, Sierra Leone and the US have never officially adopted the international metric system . . . ! That being said, you CAN buy 'engineers' scales which divide English measurements into tenths, but few besides engineers and machinists use those.)
> 
> But, back to my example; in three steps, you can quickly and easily divide any length by any number of divisions graphically using simple geometry. For those who are not familiar with this, I present it to you here:
> 
> 1. Establish (draw) lines at either end of your length or space to be divided, and at right angles (perpendicular) to it. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 1 - space to be divided)
> 
> 2. Place your ruler or scale between the two perpendiculars and angle it until you have a measurement you can easily divide by the number of equal spaces needed. For Instance, in the example above, you can easily use 30" and divide that by 5" increments to get 6 equal divisions. (Or, by 7-1/2" increments for four divisions, by 5" for six divisions, by 1" for thirty divisions and so on.) See image #2 & #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 2 - make tic marks at dividing points)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 3 - tic mark at each dividing point)
> 
> 3. Mark these points (I always use a short line against the scale with a tic mark at the point for accuracy), and lines drawn at right angles from the original line (or space), through your points gives the equal divisions. Saw cuts centered on these lines will make exactly equal parts if you are sufficiently careful. See image #4:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 4 - draw perpendicular from each point back to line or space being divided)
> 
> If you need to divide a plank into a number of equal widths, you may use either edge of the plank as your 'perpendiculars'. Slant your scale and divide across from edge to edge at each end of your plank, and lines drawn with a straight edge through matching points will divide the plank into equal widths. A little thought shows you can even lay out a number of exactly equal tapers by adjusting the length of one end point! See image #5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 5 - laying scale at an angle between lines to make the divisions equal)
> 
> Hopefully, the pictures provided describe this well enough to understand.


I think we're talking about the same thing Eric. I guess it got the "Texas" tag because it's big. .... Just a big ruler marked off in "inches" that are equal to (the number of planks to be divided) X 1". The last "inch" being divided into eighths.
I'm enjoying your posts, very familiar stuff.

Paul


----------



## patron

GnarlyErik said:


> *Dividing a line or space into equal parts*
> 
> I've heard people say 'What good are learning things in school if you don't use them?'. After my lifetime of careers, I realize you never know what may be useful to you later. One of my most useful high school classes for example, was a one-semester class in typing - a 'fill-in' course - way back when they taught 'Typing'. I guess it is called 'keyboarding' if anything similar is even taught today.
> 
> Geometry was another, which at the time I studied it I could see no practical use for. But, as it turns out I used geometry in practice a great deal in my boatbuilding career, particularly in layout work. Thank goodness, enough of it stuck over the years to be very useful.
> 
> Case in point: Dividing a Line (or space) into equal parts;
> 
> Sometimes you need to divide a line, space or length into a number of smaller parts, all equal to each other. For example, suppose you have a space or piece of material 27-7/8" long which you need to divide into five equal parts. You can do this mathematically and end up with each part needing to be exactly 5.575" long. But, now you must convert this into English measurement equivalents (inches and fractions) and then try to measure these divisions with your ruler or scale. This is very hard to do accurately. Oddly, many common dimensions are hard to divide using English measures - for example 24" by 5 or 7 (4.8" & approx. 3.43").
> 
> (And, let me say right here as an aside, that even though I have lived with English measurements all my life, things are much easier using metrics! Among all nations, only Burma, Sierra Leone and the US have never officially adopted the international metric system . . . ! That being said, you CAN buy 'engineers' scales which divide English measurements into tenths, but few besides engineers and machinists use those.)
> 
> But, back to my example; in three steps, you can quickly and easily divide any length by any number of divisions graphically using simple geometry. For those who are not familiar with this, I present it to you here:
> 
> 1. Establish (draw) lines at either end of your length or space to be divided, and at right angles (perpendicular) to it. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 1 - space to be divided)
> 
> 2. Place your ruler or scale between the two perpendiculars and angle it until you have a measurement you can easily divide by the number of equal spaces needed. For Instance, in the example above, you can easily use 30" and divide that by 5" increments to get 6 equal divisions. (Or, by 7-1/2" increments for four divisions, by 5" for six divisions, by 1" for thirty divisions and so on.) See image #2 & #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 2 - make tic marks at dividing points)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 3 - tic mark at each dividing point)
> 
> 3. Mark these points (I always use a short line against the scale with a tic mark at the point for accuracy), and lines drawn at right angles from the original line (or space), through your points gives the equal divisions. Saw cuts centered on these lines will make exactly equal parts if you are sufficiently careful. See image #4:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 4 - draw perpendicular from each point back to line or space being divided)
> 
> If you need to divide a plank into a number of equal widths, you may use either edge of the plank as your 'perpendiculars'. Slant your scale and divide across from edge to edge at each end of your plank, and lines drawn with a straight edge through matching points will divide the plank into equal widths. A little thought shows you can even lay out a number of exactly equal tapers by adjusting the length of one end point! See image #5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 5 - laying scale at an angle between lines to make the divisions equal)
> 
> Hopefully, the pictures provided describe this well enough to understand.


right you are eric

i worked the boats for 10 years in ft lauderdale mostly with cuban boatbuilders
what i learned from them is invaluable all the old hands on ways
from replacing ribs and keel sections to planking and garboard rabbet

i worked as the lofting guy for a fiberglass company for about a year too
that made 90' to 100' custom cabin cruisers
we had a loft floor 120' long by 40' wide covered in formica
the ships were hard chinned and made in panels and winched down into cradles
that bent them to profile where the edges were ground to a taper and stitched together
with copper wire then bonded with wider and wider strips of cloth

i made a lofting batten by ripping 16' pine into 3/4"x3/4" and a jig to taper the scarfs on the ends
glued them together and had a strip 100' long
then with the help of 6 guys ran it thru the planer to 5/8" square 
and we fed it up to the loft floor where i did the layout lines 
and placed various smooth 'plugs' for shafts and water intake valves
and masking tape and plastic (visquene) on the edges to the wall of the loft
leaving just the shape of the part exposed
the whole thing was then sprayed with release and them sprayed with gel coat
and and the glassing would begin
with 20 guys and roller mops and a carriage that help the cloth rolling over the floor
layer after layer of different cloth types till it was 1/2" thick
guys rolling out air bubbles till you could see clearly thru it
each layer with a different hardener time so all would kick at the same time later
after it was cured i would go in and lay out balsa core (end grain) where needed
and then the whole process would start again till the final thickness was reached

the interesting thing was a sheet of visquene laid over the whole thing
with some 1/2" pvc tubes laid to create air channels for hard to reach areas
then we would cut holes in the plastic here and there and masking tape vacuum hoses (regular shop vacs)
and turn them on and watch the plastic suck down and all the remaining air
work its way out (air pressure is 14 1/2 LBS square inch at sea level)

like paul 
i don't like fiberglass either but i did make lots of 'plugs' for molds to be made for multi parts
for production boat company's

this is a great blog series
pardon if i rattle on sometimes
but what you are doing is very helpful to many here
we don't take anything away by sharing
so far nobody has ever taken my job from me
regardless of how much i help them learn


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Dividing a line or space into equal parts*
> 
> I've heard people say 'What good are learning things in school if you don't use them?'. After my lifetime of careers, I realize you never know what may be useful to you later. One of my most useful high school classes for example, was a one-semester class in typing - a 'fill-in' course - way back when they taught 'Typing'. I guess it is called 'keyboarding' if anything similar is even taught today.
> 
> Geometry was another, which at the time I studied it I could see no practical use for. But, as it turns out I used geometry in practice a great deal in my boatbuilding career, particularly in layout work. Thank goodness, enough of it stuck over the years to be very useful.
> 
> Case in point: Dividing a Line (or space) into equal parts;
> 
> Sometimes you need to divide a line, space or length into a number of smaller parts, all equal to each other. For example, suppose you have a space or piece of material 27-7/8" long which you need to divide into five equal parts. You can do this mathematically and end up with each part needing to be exactly 5.575" long. But, now you must convert this into English measurement equivalents (inches and fractions) and then try to measure these divisions with your ruler or scale. This is very hard to do accurately. Oddly, many common dimensions are hard to divide using English measures - for example 24" by 5 or 7 (4.8" & approx. 3.43").
> 
> (And, let me say right here as an aside, that even though I have lived with English measurements all my life, things are much easier using metrics! Among all nations, only Burma, Sierra Leone and the US have never officially adopted the international metric system . . . ! That being said, you CAN buy 'engineers' scales which divide English measurements into tenths, but few besides engineers and machinists use those.)
> 
> But, back to my example; in three steps, you can quickly and easily divide any length by any number of divisions graphically using simple geometry. For those who are not familiar with this, I present it to you here:
> 
> 1. Establish (draw) lines at either end of your length or space to be divided, and at right angles (perpendicular) to it. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 1 - space to be divided)
> 
> 2. Place your ruler or scale between the two perpendiculars and angle it until you have a measurement you can easily divide by the number of equal spaces needed. For Instance, in the example above, you can easily use 30" and divide that by 5" increments to get 6 equal divisions. (Or, by 7-1/2" increments for four divisions, by 5" for six divisions, by 1" for thirty divisions and so on.) See image #2 & #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 2 - make tic marks at dividing points)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 3 - tic mark at each dividing point)
> 
> 3. Mark these points (I always use a short line against the scale with a tic mark at the point for accuracy), and lines drawn at right angles from the original line (or space), through your points gives the equal divisions. Saw cuts centered on these lines will make exactly equal parts if you are sufficiently careful. See image #4:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 4 - draw perpendicular from each point back to line or space being divided)
> 
> If you need to divide a plank into a number of equal widths, you may use either edge of the plank as your 'perpendiculars'. Slant your scale and divide across from edge to edge at each end of your plank, and lines drawn with a straight edge through matching points will divide the plank into equal widths. A little thought shows you can even lay out a number of exactly equal tapers by adjusting the length of one end point! See image #5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 5 - laying scale at an angle between lines to make the divisions equal)
> 
> Hopefully, the pictures provided describe this well enough to understand.


Right you are Patron. Sounds like you may have been around the Rybovich operation, or Bertram's? I am old enough to have known Dick Bertram when he was just a yacht bum in the 'fifties, and once had an employee who had worked for Rybovich for a spell - and well qualified he was too!

My boatbuilding began in my father's shop in Maine, and from the time I was first able to swing a hammer or wield a broom (around 12 years old). Later, I had two boatbuilding shops of my own - couldn't be a shop flunky for a fussy dad forever - but he sure knew how to do things right. I had a shop in Midcoast Maine, then in eastern NC, and ended up with a yard in Alaska for years. I've done only one-offs throughout my career. When I finally got too old and creaky I got in the brokerage end of things for about ten years and finally sold that and retired about four years ago. Now, I just piddle around in my shop in a warmer climate when and as I feel like it! But, I miss full-scale boatbuilding for sure.

In Maine, the local high school was kind enough to allow my shop to use their gymnasium floor once to loft a 92 footer - at night only! We indexed and lofted on plywood panels which we took up and stored during the day. We build a 92 footer in a 70 foot shop by adding on a 40 foot 'temporary' extension, which stood up through three winters!

I never got into fiberglass beyond some repair work (thank God!), but have done some work finishing out steel yachts and workboats. I have done some cold-moulding and vacuum forming too, but with wood laminates only. I've used vacuum bagging to build cold-moulded rudders, center boards and dagger boards primarily. My older Maine workers called fiberglass 'frozen snot' and epoxy used in cold moulding 'smegg'. Pretty much the same thing on the West Coast too for that matter.

The old skills are being gradually lost, which is one of the reasons I have begun posting a few things, and writing things up before I get too old to remember them. Case in point, when I had a yard in Maine, I would sometimes lose shipwrights to points south, primarily to MA and RI because they paid at least double the going rates in Maine. But, I also had the so-called 'builders' come to me for building their plugs which they no longer had the skills to loft and build anymore - they had gotten 100% into FG and their old-timers had gradually died off or left. Maine and the Pacific NW are still the two main bastions for traditional boatbuilding today, and even there the skills are slowly eroding and disappearing. Maine for yachts, and the Pacific NW for working vessels. Ah well, nothing is forever they say.


----------



## patron

GnarlyErik said:


> *Dividing a line or space into equal parts*
> 
> I've heard people say 'What good are learning things in school if you don't use them?'. After my lifetime of careers, I realize you never know what may be useful to you later. One of my most useful high school classes for example, was a one-semester class in typing - a 'fill-in' course - way back when they taught 'Typing'. I guess it is called 'keyboarding' if anything similar is even taught today.
> 
> Geometry was another, which at the time I studied it I could see no practical use for. But, as it turns out I used geometry in practice a great deal in my boatbuilding career, particularly in layout work. Thank goodness, enough of it stuck over the years to be very useful.
> 
> Case in point: Dividing a Line (or space) into equal parts;
> 
> Sometimes you need to divide a line, space or length into a number of smaller parts, all equal to each other. For example, suppose you have a space or piece of material 27-7/8" long which you need to divide into five equal parts. You can do this mathematically and end up with each part needing to be exactly 5.575" long. But, now you must convert this into English measurement equivalents (inches and fractions) and then try to measure these divisions with your ruler or scale. This is very hard to do accurately. Oddly, many common dimensions are hard to divide using English measures - for example 24" by 5 or 7 (4.8" & approx. 3.43").
> 
> (And, let me say right here as an aside, that even though I have lived with English measurements all my life, things are much easier using metrics! Among all nations, only Burma, Sierra Leone and the US have never officially adopted the international metric system . . . ! That being said, you CAN buy 'engineers' scales which divide English measurements into tenths, but few besides engineers and machinists use those.)
> 
> But, back to my example; in three steps, you can quickly and easily divide any length by any number of divisions graphically using simple geometry. For those who are not familiar with this, I present it to you here:
> 
> 1. Establish (draw) lines at either end of your length or space to be divided, and at right angles (perpendicular) to it. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 1 - space to be divided)
> 
> 2. Place your ruler or scale between the two perpendiculars and angle it until you have a measurement you can easily divide by the number of equal spaces needed. For Instance, in the example above, you can easily use 30" and divide that by 5" increments to get 6 equal divisions. (Or, by 7-1/2" increments for four divisions, by 5" for six divisions, by 1" for thirty divisions and so on.) See image #2 & #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 2 - make tic marks at dividing points)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 3 - tic mark at each dividing point)
> 
> 3. Mark these points (I always use a short line against the scale with a tic mark at the point for accuracy), and lines drawn at right angles from the original line (or space), through your points gives the equal divisions. Saw cuts centered on these lines will make exactly equal parts if you are sufficiently careful. See image #4:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 4 - draw perpendicular from each point back to line or space being divided)
> 
> If you need to divide a plank into a number of equal widths, you may use either edge of the plank as your 'perpendiculars'. Slant your scale and divide across from edge to edge at each end of your plank, and lines drawn with a straight edge through matching points will divide the plank into equal widths. A little thought shows you can even lay out a number of exactly equal tapers by adjusting the length of one end point! See image #5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 5 - laying scale at an angle between lines to make the divisions equal)
> 
> Hopefully, the pictures provided describe this well enough to understand.


well as you know
sailors are a tight bunch
so sail was not to often or rewarding

i worked the stink pot mostly
as that is where the rich guys hang

knew some guys at rybovich
and got farmed out to bertram from time to time

but worked the lift yards for repairs
and ran some glass offshore places too
doing the interiors and trims
(don't you know they all wanted 'secret compartments')
then the moron captains would take a 1 million $ boat
and go to the bars at night to pick up chicks
and get busted with coke
and lose the boats before they even used most of them

we moved one shop to a bigger place one time
and two days later the cartels sent some colombians to the old place
and machine gunned it to smithereens
glad i wasn't there lol

the cubans were great to learn from
(i speak fluent spanish)
they taught me the old ways
and i taught them modern tools 
back in cuba all they had was table saws and band saws


----------



## shipwright

GnarlyErik said:


> *Dividing a line or space into equal parts*
> 
> I've heard people say 'What good are learning things in school if you don't use them?'. After my lifetime of careers, I realize you never know what may be useful to you later. One of my most useful high school classes for example, was a one-semester class in typing - a 'fill-in' course - way back when they taught 'Typing'. I guess it is called 'keyboarding' if anything similar is even taught today.
> 
> Geometry was another, which at the time I studied it I could see no practical use for. But, as it turns out I used geometry in practice a great deal in my boatbuilding career, particularly in layout work. Thank goodness, enough of it stuck over the years to be very useful.
> 
> Case in point: Dividing a Line (or space) into equal parts;
> 
> Sometimes you need to divide a line, space or length into a number of smaller parts, all equal to each other. For example, suppose you have a space or piece of material 27-7/8" long which you need to divide into five equal parts. You can do this mathematically and end up with each part needing to be exactly 5.575" long. But, now you must convert this into English measurement equivalents (inches and fractions) and then try to measure these divisions with your ruler or scale. This is very hard to do accurately. Oddly, many common dimensions are hard to divide using English measures - for example 24" by 5 or 7 (4.8" & approx. 3.43").
> 
> (And, let me say right here as an aside, that even though I have lived with English measurements all my life, things are much easier using metrics! Among all nations, only Burma, Sierra Leone and the US have never officially adopted the international metric system . . . ! That being said, you CAN buy 'engineers' scales which divide English measurements into tenths, but few besides engineers and machinists use those.)
> 
> But, back to my example; in three steps, you can quickly and easily divide any length by any number of divisions graphically using simple geometry. For those who are not familiar with this, I present it to you here:
> 
> 1. Establish (draw) lines at either end of your length or space to be divided, and at right angles (perpendicular) to it. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 1 - space to be divided)
> 
> 2. Place your ruler or scale between the two perpendiculars and angle it until you have a measurement you can easily divide by the number of equal spaces needed. For Instance, in the example above, you can easily use 30" and divide that by 5" increments to get 6 equal divisions. (Or, by 7-1/2" increments for four divisions, by 5" for six divisions, by 1" for thirty divisions and so on.) See image #2 & #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 2 - make tic marks at dividing points)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 3 - tic mark at each dividing point)
> 
> 3. Mark these points (I always use a short line against the scale with a tic mark at the point for accuracy), and lines drawn at right angles from the original line (or space), through your points gives the equal divisions. Saw cuts centered on these lines will make exactly equal parts if you are sufficiently careful. See image #4:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 4 - draw perpendicular from each point back to line or space being divided)
> 
> If you need to divide a plank into a number of equal widths, you may use either edge of the plank as your 'perpendiculars'. Slant your scale and divide across from edge to edge at each end of your plank, and lines drawn with a straight edge through matching points will divide the plank into equal widths. A little thought shows you can even lay out a number of exactly equal tapers by adjusting the length of one end point! See image #5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 5 - laying scale at an angle between lines to make the divisions equal)
> 
> Hopefully, the pictures provided describe this well enough to understand.


Wood boat building, for commercial boats is all but gone now on the west coast of Canada. There are lots of boats left around and lots of work in the repair side, but many of those doing the repairs have never built one from scratch and don't have the foundation of knowledge required to do the repairs "right"...................They have no problem charging top rate though. Maybe it's just sour grapes but there don't seem to be many people left who can get it done and done well. There are a few schools but they seem to be oriented toward yachts and small boats.
I was lucky enough to get in on the last of the big commercial boat building in wood in the late sixties, seiners and trollers mostly around my end of the world. I learned from some wonderful people who were some of the most intelligent I've ever met although their educations mostly ended before high school.
This is a great blog.
Keep on writing.


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Dividing a line or space into equal parts*
> 
> I've heard people say 'What good are learning things in school if you don't use them?'. After my lifetime of careers, I realize you never know what may be useful to you later. One of my most useful high school classes for example, was a one-semester class in typing - a 'fill-in' course - way back when they taught 'Typing'. I guess it is called 'keyboarding' if anything similar is even taught today.
> 
> Geometry was another, which at the time I studied it I could see no practical use for. But, as it turns out I used geometry in practice a great deal in my boatbuilding career, particularly in layout work. Thank goodness, enough of it stuck over the years to be very useful.
> 
> Case in point: Dividing a Line (or space) into equal parts;
> 
> Sometimes you need to divide a line, space or length into a number of smaller parts, all equal to each other. For example, suppose you have a space or piece of material 27-7/8" long which you need to divide into five equal parts. You can do this mathematically and end up with each part needing to be exactly 5.575" long. But, now you must convert this into English measurement equivalents (inches and fractions) and then try to measure these divisions with your ruler or scale. This is very hard to do accurately. Oddly, many common dimensions are hard to divide using English measures - for example 24" by 5 or 7 (4.8" & approx. 3.43").
> 
> (And, let me say right here as an aside, that even though I have lived with English measurements all my life, things are much easier using metrics! Among all nations, only Burma, Sierra Leone and the US have never officially adopted the international metric system . . . ! That being said, you CAN buy 'engineers' scales which divide English measurements into tenths, but few besides engineers and machinists use those.)
> 
> But, back to my example; in three steps, you can quickly and easily divide any length by any number of divisions graphically using simple geometry. For those who are not familiar with this, I present it to you here:
> 
> 1. Establish (draw) lines at either end of your length or space to be divided, and at right angles (perpendicular) to it. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 1 - space to be divided)
> 
> 2. Place your ruler or scale between the two perpendiculars and angle it until you have a measurement you can easily divide by the number of equal spaces needed. For Instance, in the example above, you can easily use 30" and divide that by 5" increments to get 6 equal divisions. (Or, by 7-1/2" increments for four divisions, by 5" for six divisions, by 1" for thirty divisions and so on.) See image #2 & #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 2 - make tic marks at dividing points)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 3 - tic mark at each dividing point)
> 
> 3. Mark these points (I always use a short line against the scale with a tic mark at the point for accuracy), and lines drawn at right angles from the original line (or space), through your points gives the equal divisions. Saw cuts centered on these lines will make exactly equal parts if you are sufficiently careful. See image #4:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 4 - draw perpendicular from each point back to line or space being divided)
> 
> If you need to divide a plank into a number of equal widths, you may use either edge of the plank as your 'perpendiculars'. Slant your scale and divide across from edge to edge at each end of your plank, and lines drawn with a straight edge through matching points will divide the plank into equal widths. A little thought shows you can even lay out a number of exactly equal tapers by adjusting the length of one end point! See image #5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 5 - laying scale at an angle between lines to make the divisions equal)
> 
> Hopefully, the pictures provided describe this well enough to understand.


Copy all that, Shipwright. I could not agree more. I lived and worked in SE Alaska for many years and worked on quite a few Canada built trollers and seiners, some which transistioned into the Alaska fisheries, and some which were converted and sold into pleasure use.

The BC boats we worked on were usually skillfully built with good materials, but the fact is the market for wooden boats has essentially disappeared, so you and I are some of the last of a fast disappearing breed. New wooden boats of anything bigger than 20 feet are almost cult items these days, although a few are being done, particularly using the cold-moulded methods, although that is a big departure from traditional boatbuilding. It is almost impossible to make a decent living in wooden boats except doing repairs, which is not all that rewarding. Those are just the facts of life these days.

But, I am still willing to bet that a young person who was willing to put in the time, and could somehow manage to make enough to get by, and honed their skills continuously, could become in time one of the elite few still able to do such things, and thereby make him or herself a high-priced expert. I think it is like being a starving artist - very few will have the persistence to stick it out long enough to become that successful, elite person.

I count myself as lucky, because I was able to make a decent living for myself and my family doing exactly what I loved to do. I did not make a lot of money, and was financially on the edge at times, but always managed to get by. It wasn't until I got out of the 'hands on' and into brokering boats that I made any real money, but it was nowhere as near as satisfying. After a few years I felt I had done well enough to retire, sold my brokerage and now here I am - puttering around in my home workshop, making odds and ends and trying to stay sane and out of trouble. But, I know I have at least one more boat left in me, and am angling to get started on that. Perhaps in a year?

I think you must always keep a goal!


----------



## toeachhisown (Eddie)

GnarlyErik said:


> *Dividing a line or space into equal parts*
> 
> I've heard people say 'What good are learning things in school if you don't use them?'. After my lifetime of careers, I realize you never know what may be useful to you later. One of my most useful high school classes for example, was a one-semester class in typing - a 'fill-in' course - way back when they taught 'Typing'. I guess it is called 'keyboarding' if anything similar is even taught today.
> 
> Geometry was another, which at the time I studied it I could see no practical use for. But, as it turns out I used geometry in practice a great deal in my boatbuilding career, particularly in layout work. Thank goodness, enough of it stuck over the years to be very useful.
> 
> Case in point: Dividing a Line (or space) into equal parts;
> 
> Sometimes you need to divide a line, space or length into a number of smaller parts, all equal to each other. For example, suppose you have a space or piece of material 27-7/8" long which you need to divide into five equal parts. You can do this mathematically and end up with each part needing to be exactly 5.575" long. But, now you must convert this into English measurement equivalents (inches and fractions) and then try to measure these divisions with your ruler or scale. This is very hard to do accurately. Oddly, many common dimensions are hard to divide using English measures - for example 24" by 5 or 7 (4.8" & approx. 3.43").
> 
> (And, let me say right here as an aside, that even though I have lived with English measurements all my life, things are much easier using metrics! Among all nations, only Burma, Sierra Leone and the US have never officially adopted the international metric system . . . ! That being said, you CAN buy 'engineers' scales which divide English measurements into tenths, but few besides engineers and machinists use those.)
> 
> But, back to my example; in three steps, you can quickly and easily divide any length by any number of divisions graphically using simple geometry. For those who are not familiar with this, I present it to you here:
> 
> 1. Establish (draw) lines at either end of your length or space to be divided, and at right angles (perpendicular) to it. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 1 - space to be divided)
> 
> 2. Place your ruler or scale between the two perpendiculars and angle it until you have a measurement you can easily divide by the number of equal spaces needed. For Instance, in the example above, you can easily use 30" and divide that by 5" increments to get 6 equal divisions. (Or, by 7-1/2" increments for four divisions, by 5" for six divisions, by 1" for thirty divisions and so on.) See image #2 & #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 2 - make tic marks at dividing points)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 3 - tic mark at each dividing point)
> 
> 3. Mark these points (I always use a short line against the scale with a tic mark at the point for accuracy), and lines drawn at right angles from the original line (or space), through your points gives the equal divisions. Saw cuts centered on these lines will make exactly equal parts if you are sufficiently careful. See image #4:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 4 - draw perpendicular from each point back to line or space being divided)
> 
> If you need to divide a plank into a number of equal widths, you may use either edge of the plank as your 'perpendiculars'. Slant your scale and divide across from edge to edge at each end of your plank, and lines drawn with a straight edge through matching points will divide the plank into equal widths. A little thought shows you can even lay out a number of exactly equal tapers by adjusting the length of one end point! See image #5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 5 - laying scale at an angle between lines to make the divisions equal)
> 
> Hopefully, the pictures provided describe this well enough to understand.


great blog ,love it


----------



## superdav721

GnarlyErik said:


> *Dividing a line or space into equal parts*
> 
> I've heard people say 'What good are learning things in school if you don't use them?'. After my lifetime of careers, I realize you never know what may be useful to you later. One of my most useful high school classes for example, was a one-semester class in typing - a 'fill-in' course - way back when they taught 'Typing'. I guess it is called 'keyboarding' if anything similar is even taught today.
> 
> Geometry was another, which at the time I studied it I could see no practical use for. But, as it turns out I used geometry in practice a great deal in my boatbuilding career, particularly in layout work. Thank goodness, enough of it stuck over the years to be very useful.
> 
> Case in point: Dividing a Line (or space) into equal parts;
> 
> Sometimes you need to divide a line, space or length into a number of smaller parts, all equal to each other. For example, suppose you have a space or piece of material 27-7/8" long which you need to divide into five equal parts. You can do this mathematically and end up with each part needing to be exactly 5.575" long. But, now you must convert this into English measurement equivalents (inches and fractions) and then try to measure these divisions with your ruler or scale. This is very hard to do accurately. Oddly, many common dimensions are hard to divide using English measures - for example 24" by 5 or 7 (4.8" & approx. 3.43").
> 
> (And, let me say right here as an aside, that even though I have lived with English measurements all my life, things are much easier using metrics! Among all nations, only Burma, Sierra Leone and the US have never officially adopted the international metric system . . . ! That being said, you CAN buy 'engineers' scales which divide English measurements into tenths, but few besides engineers and machinists use those.)
> 
> But, back to my example; in three steps, you can quickly and easily divide any length by any number of divisions graphically using simple geometry. For those who are not familiar with this, I present it to you here:
> 
> 1. Establish (draw) lines at either end of your length or space to be divided, and at right angles (perpendicular) to it. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 1 - space to be divided)
> 
> 2. Place your ruler or scale between the two perpendiculars and angle it until you have a measurement you can easily divide by the number of equal spaces needed. For Instance, in the example above, you can easily use 30" and divide that by 5" increments to get 6 equal divisions. (Or, by 7-1/2" increments for four divisions, by 5" for six divisions, by 1" for thirty divisions and so on.) See image #2 & #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 2 - make tic marks at dividing points)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 3 - tic mark at each dividing point)
> 
> 3. Mark these points (I always use a short line against the scale with a tic mark at the point for accuracy), and lines drawn at right angles from the original line (or space), through your points gives the equal divisions. Saw cuts centered on these lines will make exactly equal parts if you are sufficiently careful. See image #4:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 4 - draw perpendicular from each point back to line or space being divided)
> 
> If you need to divide a plank into a number of equal widths, you may use either edge of the plank as your 'perpendiculars'. Slant your scale and divide across from edge to edge at each end of your plank, and lines drawn with a straight edge through matching points will divide the plank into equal widths. A little thought shows you can even lay out a number of exactly equal tapers by adjusting the length of one end point! See image #5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 5 - laying scale at an angle between lines to make the divisions equal)
> 
> Hopefully, the pictures provided describe this well enough to understand.


well done and well written.


----------



## workislove

GnarlyErik said:


> *Dividing a line or space into equal parts*
> 
> I've heard people say 'What good are learning things in school if you don't use them?'. After my lifetime of careers, I realize you never know what may be useful to you later. One of my most useful high school classes for example, was a one-semester class in typing - a 'fill-in' course - way back when they taught 'Typing'. I guess it is called 'keyboarding' if anything similar is even taught today.
> 
> Geometry was another, which at the time I studied it I could see no practical use for. But, as it turns out I used geometry in practice a great deal in my boatbuilding career, particularly in layout work. Thank goodness, enough of it stuck over the years to be very useful.
> 
> Case in point: Dividing a Line (or space) into equal parts;
> 
> Sometimes you need to divide a line, space or length into a number of smaller parts, all equal to each other. For example, suppose you have a space or piece of material 27-7/8" long which you need to divide into five equal parts. You can do this mathematically and end up with each part needing to be exactly 5.575" long. But, now you must convert this into English measurement equivalents (inches and fractions) and then try to measure these divisions with your ruler or scale. This is very hard to do accurately. Oddly, many common dimensions are hard to divide using English measures - for example 24" by 5 or 7 (4.8" & approx. 3.43").
> 
> (And, let me say right here as an aside, that even though I have lived with English measurements all my life, things are much easier using metrics! Among all nations, only Burma, Sierra Leone and the US have never officially adopted the international metric system . . . ! That being said, you CAN buy 'engineers' scales which divide English measurements into tenths, but few besides engineers and machinists use those.)
> 
> But, back to my example; in three steps, you can quickly and easily divide any length by any number of divisions graphically using simple geometry. For those who are not familiar with this, I present it to you here:
> 
> 1. Establish (draw) lines at either end of your length or space to be divided, and at right angles (perpendicular) to it. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 1 - space to be divided)
> 
> 2. Place your ruler or scale between the two perpendiculars and angle it until you have a measurement you can easily divide by the number of equal spaces needed. For Instance, in the example above, you can easily use 30" and divide that by 5" increments to get 6 equal divisions. (Or, by 7-1/2" increments for four divisions, by 5" for six divisions, by 1" for thirty divisions and so on.) See image #2 & #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 2 - make tic marks at dividing points)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 3 - tic mark at each dividing point)
> 
> 3. Mark these points (I always use a short line against the scale with a tic mark at the point for accuracy), and lines drawn at right angles from the original line (or space), through your points gives the equal divisions. Saw cuts centered on these lines will make exactly equal parts if you are sufficiently careful. See image #4:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 4 - draw perpendicular from each point back to line or space being divided)
> 
> If you need to divide a plank into a number of equal widths, you may use either edge of the plank as your 'perpendiculars'. Slant your scale and divide across from edge to edge at each end of your plank, and lines drawn with a straight edge through matching points will divide the plank into equal widths. A little thought shows you can even lay out a number of exactly equal tapers by adjusting the length of one end point! See image #5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image 5 - laying scale at an angle between lines to make the divisions equal)
> 
> Hopefully, the pictures provided describe this well enough to understand.


Thanks a lot, I was stuck scratching my head on how to do the equal width division, this just saved me a lot of time an headache


----------



## GnarlyErik

*"Declivity" - a trick for dealing with things out of level or plumb*

With shipbuilding in the past - and for some larger vessels even now - boats were built 'on the shingle' (beach), meaning they were built on a slope, sometimes quite steep. In fact, before the days of modern machinery, the slope of the building site enabled the builders to move and launch a vessel of many, many tons. And, unless the builder compensated for the angle of the shingle, many items could end up out of kilter once the vessel entered its working environment after launch.

This was dealt with in at least two ways: "deadrise" and "declivity compensation". ('declivity' means 'down slope' in its Latin origins).

First, and most obvious is the use of 'deadrise' in the keel and bottom to make the working part of the vessel more or less level during construction, while the keel itself rests at the angle, but still have the vessel float level and properly after launch. This works up to a point, but can get excessive, producing too much 'drag' to the keel (depth at the stern), especially if the slope is steep. Many vessels were built with their framing square (perpendicular) to the slope, with decks, superstructures, etc., so arranged to become level and plumb to 'earth' after launching. This made for interesting and difficult intersections and transitions, but I digress. See image #1.









Compensating for the slope of the building site.

The subject of this post, is the use of 'declivity boards' during construction. While not many are building boats on the shingle these days (you never know!), a declivity board can come in handy for other things at times - anything needing to be built (or repaired) at an angle to earth, or leveled and plumbed when your base is not. These adaptations can be quickly made on the spot, for any angle, as needed.

In its simplest form, a declivity board is a wooden wedge about as long as your level, at a taper to match a particular slope, as required. This is then placed against the side of the level to compensate for the departure from level the slope makes, in either a horizontal or vertical direction. See image #2.









A declivity board in use

A somewhat easier-to-use-and-make version is a simple batten tacked to a piece of thin stock at the required angle. But, this also then makes the declivity board 'handed', so the batten must be on both sides to make it both right and left handed. In use, the main issue is to be sure it is being used in the right direction, as it is easy to get things confused! See image #3.









A simplified declivity board

I know this is mere trivia and of little use to many, but you still may find it interesting.

If you Google "ship launching' on YouTube, I guarantee you will find some fascinating videos to watch. There is nothing quite like seeing many thousands of tons of ship moving from dry land to its natural element. Once it starts, little on earth will stop them - and more than a few end up in disaster. If you ever have a chance in life to actually watch a ship launching, do yourself a favor and don't miss it - just be careful where you stand!


----------



## OldKranky

GnarlyErik said:


> *"Declivity" - a trick for dealing with things out of level or plumb*
> 
> With shipbuilding in the past - and for some larger vessels even now - boats were built 'on the shingle' (beach), meaning they were built on a slope, sometimes quite steep. In fact, before the days of modern machinery, the slope of the building site enabled the builders to move and launch a vessel of many, many tons. And, unless the builder compensated for the angle of the shingle, many items could end up out of kilter once the vessel entered its working environment after launch.
> 
> This was dealt with in at least two ways: "deadrise" and "declivity compensation". ('declivity' means 'down slope' in its Latin origins).
> 
> First, and most obvious is the use of 'deadrise' in the keel and bottom to make the working part of the vessel more or less level during construction, while the keel itself rests at the angle, but still have the vessel float level and properly after launch. This works up to a point, but can get excessive, producing too much 'drag' to the keel (depth at the stern), especially if the slope is steep. Many vessels were built with their framing square (perpendicular) to the slope, with decks, superstructures, etc., so arranged to become level and plumb to 'earth' after launching. This made for interesting and difficult intersections and transitions, but I digress. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compensating for the slope of the building site.
> 
> The subject of this post, is the use of 'declivity boards' during construction. While not many are building boats on the shingle these days (you never know!), a declivity board can come in handy for other things at times - anything needing to be built (or repaired) at an angle to earth, or leveled and plumbed when your base is not. These adaptations can be quickly made on the spot, for any angle, as needed.
> 
> In its simplest form, a declivity board is a wooden wedge about as long as your level, at a taper to match a particular slope, as required. This is then placed against the side of the level to compensate for the departure from level the slope makes, in either a horizontal or vertical direction. See image #2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A declivity board in use
> 
> A somewhat easier-to-use-and-make version is a simple batten tacked to a piece of thin stock at the required angle. But, this also then makes the declivity board 'handed', so the batten must be on both sides to make it both right and left handed. In use, the main issue is to be sure it is being used in the right direction, as it is easy to get things confused! See image #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A simplified declivity board
> 
> I know this is mere trivia and of little use to many, but you still may find it interesting.
> 
> If you Google "ship launching' on YouTube, I guarantee you will find some fascinating videos to watch. There is nothing quite like seeing many thousands of tons of ship moving from dry land to its natural element. Once it starts, little on earth will stop them - and more than a few end up in disaster. If you ever have a chance in life to actually watch a ship launching, do yourself a favor and don't miss it - just be careful where you stand!


Thanks! I love learning new things like this.


----------



## patron

GnarlyErik said:


> *"Declivity" - a trick for dealing with things out of level or plumb*
> 
> With shipbuilding in the past - and for some larger vessels even now - boats were built 'on the shingle' (beach), meaning they were built on a slope, sometimes quite steep. In fact, before the days of modern machinery, the slope of the building site enabled the builders to move and launch a vessel of many, many tons. And, unless the builder compensated for the angle of the shingle, many items could end up out of kilter once the vessel entered its working environment after launch.
> 
> This was dealt with in at least two ways: "deadrise" and "declivity compensation". ('declivity' means 'down slope' in its Latin origins).
> 
> First, and most obvious is the use of 'deadrise' in the keel and bottom to make the working part of the vessel more or less level during construction, while the keel itself rests at the angle, but still have the vessel float level and properly after launch. This works up to a point, but can get excessive, producing too much 'drag' to the keel (depth at the stern), especially if the slope is steep. Many vessels were built with their framing square (perpendicular) to the slope, with decks, superstructures, etc., so arranged to become level and plumb to 'earth' after launching. This made for interesting and difficult intersections and transitions, but I digress. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compensating for the slope of the building site.
> 
> The subject of this post, is the use of 'declivity boards' during construction. While not many are building boats on the shingle these days (you never know!), a declivity board can come in handy for other things at times - anything needing to be built (or repaired) at an angle to earth, or leveled and plumbed when your base is not. These adaptations can be quickly made on the spot, for any angle, as needed.
> 
> In its simplest form, a declivity board is a wooden wedge about as long as your level, at a taper to match a particular slope, as required. This is then placed against the side of the level to compensate for the departure from level the slope makes, in either a horizontal or vertical direction. See image #2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A declivity board in use
> 
> A somewhat easier-to-use-and-make version is a simple batten tacked to a piece of thin stock at the required angle. But, this also then makes the declivity board 'handed', so the batten must be on both sides to make it both right and left handed. In use, the main issue is to be sure it is being used in the right direction, as it is easy to get things confused! See image #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A simplified declivity board
> 
> I know this is mere trivia and of little use to many, but you still may find it interesting.
> 
> If you Google "ship launching' on YouTube, I guarantee you will find some fascinating videos to watch. There is nothing quite like seeing many thousands of tons of ship moving from dry land to its natural element. Once it starts, little on earth will stop them - and more than a few end up in disaster. If you ever have a chance in life to actually watch a ship launching, do yourself a favor and don't miss it - just be careful where you stand!


that comes in handy for construction too
like for roof repairs
where some add on's are slightly different pitch
or to follow a slope for gardens and grading


----------



## HillbillyShooter

GnarlyErik said:


> *"Declivity" - a trick for dealing with things out of level or plumb*
> 
> With shipbuilding in the past - and for some larger vessels even now - boats were built 'on the shingle' (beach), meaning they were built on a slope, sometimes quite steep. In fact, before the days of modern machinery, the slope of the building site enabled the builders to move and launch a vessel of many, many tons. And, unless the builder compensated for the angle of the shingle, many items could end up out of kilter once the vessel entered its working environment after launch.
> 
> This was dealt with in at least two ways: "deadrise" and "declivity compensation". ('declivity' means 'down slope' in its Latin origins).
> 
> First, and most obvious is the use of 'deadrise' in the keel and bottom to make the working part of the vessel more or less level during construction, while the keel itself rests at the angle, but still have the vessel float level and properly after launch. This works up to a point, but can get excessive, producing too much 'drag' to the keel (depth at the stern), especially if the slope is steep. Many vessels were built with their framing square (perpendicular) to the slope, with decks, superstructures, etc., so arranged to become level and plumb to 'earth' after launching. This made for interesting and difficult intersections and transitions, but I digress. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compensating for the slope of the building site.
> 
> The subject of this post, is the use of 'declivity boards' during construction. While not many are building boats on the shingle these days (you never know!), a declivity board can come in handy for other things at times - anything needing to be built (or repaired) at an angle to earth, or leveled and plumbed when your base is not. These adaptations can be quickly made on the spot, for any angle, as needed.
> 
> In its simplest form, a declivity board is a wooden wedge about as long as your level, at a taper to match a particular slope, as required. This is then placed against the side of the level to compensate for the departure from level the slope makes, in either a horizontal or vertical direction. See image #2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A declivity board in use
> 
> A somewhat easier-to-use-and-make version is a simple batten tacked to a piece of thin stock at the required angle. But, this also then makes the declivity board 'handed', so the batten must be on both sides to make it both right and left handed. In use, the main issue is to be sure it is being used in the right direction, as it is easy to get things confused! See image #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A simplified declivity board
> 
> I know this is mere trivia and of little use to many, but you still may find it interesting.
> 
> If you Google "ship launching' on YouTube, I guarantee you will find some fascinating videos to watch. There is nothing quite like seeing many thousands of tons of ship moving from dry land to its natural element. Once it starts, little on earth will stop them - and more than a few end up in disaster. If you ever have a chance in life to actually watch a ship launching, do yourself a favor and don't miss it - just be careful where you stand!


Thanks for the information.


----------



## jap

GnarlyErik said:


> *"Declivity" - a trick for dealing with things out of level or plumb*
> 
> With shipbuilding in the past - and for some larger vessels even now - boats were built 'on the shingle' (beach), meaning they were built on a slope, sometimes quite steep. In fact, before the days of modern machinery, the slope of the building site enabled the builders to move and launch a vessel of many, many tons. And, unless the builder compensated for the angle of the shingle, many items could end up out of kilter once the vessel entered its working environment after launch.
> 
> This was dealt with in at least two ways: "deadrise" and "declivity compensation". ('declivity' means 'down slope' in its Latin origins).
> 
> First, and most obvious is the use of 'deadrise' in the keel and bottom to make the working part of the vessel more or less level during construction, while the keel itself rests at the angle, but still have the vessel float level and properly after launch. This works up to a point, but can get excessive, producing too much 'drag' to the keel (depth at the stern), especially if the slope is steep. Many vessels were built with their framing square (perpendicular) to the slope, with decks, superstructures, etc., so arranged to become level and plumb to 'earth' after launching. This made for interesting and difficult intersections and transitions, but I digress. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compensating for the slope of the building site.
> 
> The subject of this post, is the use of 'declivity boards' during construction. While not many are building boats on the shingle these days (you never know!), a declivity board can come in handy for other things at times - anything needing to be built (or repaired) at an angle to earth, or leveled and plumbed when your base is not. These adaptations can be quickly made on the spot, for any angle, as needed.
> 
> In its simplest form, a declivity board is a wooden wedge about as long as your level, at a taper to match a particular slope, as required. This is then placed against the side of the level to compensate for the departure from level the slope makes, in either a horizontal or vertical direction. See image #2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A declivity board in use
> 
> A somewhat easier-to-use-and-make version is a simple batten tacked to a piece of thin stock at the required angle. But, this also then makes the declivity board 'handed', so the batten must be on both sides to make it both right and left handed. In use, the main issue is to be sure it is being used in the right direction, as it is easy to get things confused! See image #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A simplified declivity board
> 
> I know this is mere trivia and of little use to many, but you still may find it interesting.
> 
> If you Google "ship launching' on YouTube, I guarantee you will find some fascinating videos to watch. There is nothing quite like seeing many thousands of tons of ship moving from dry land to its natural element. Once it starts, little on earth will stop them - and more than a few end up in disaster. If you ever have a chance in life to actually watch a ship launching, do yourself a favor and don't miss it - just be careful where you stand!


Thanks for taking the time to write this blog, i've enjoyed it so far.


----------



## Gpops

GnarlyErik said:


> *"Declivity" - a trick for dealing with things out of level or plumb*
> 
> With shipbuilding in the past - and for some larger vessels even now - boats were built 'on the shingle' (beach), meaning they were built on a slope, sometimes quite steep. In fact, before the days of modern machinery, the slope of the building site enabled the builders to move and launch a vessel of many, many tons. And, unless the builder compensated for the angle of the shingle, many items could end up out of kilter once the vessel entered its working environment after launch.
> 
> This was dealt with in at least two ways: "deadrise" and "declivity compensation". ('declivity' means 'down slope' in its Latin origins).
> 
> First, and most obvious is the use of 'deadrise' in the keel and bottom to make the working part of the vessel more or less level during construction, while the keel itself rests at the angle, but still have the vessel float level and properly after launch. This works up to a point, but can get excessive, producing too much 'drag' to the keel (depth at the stern), especially if the slope is steep. Many vessels were built with their framing square (perpendicular) to the slope, with decks, superstructures, etc., so arranged to become level and plumb to 'earth' after launching. This made for interesting and difficult intersections and transitions, but I digress. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compensating for the slope of the building site.
> 
> The subject of this post, is the use of 'declivity boards' during construction. While not many are building boats on the shingle these days (you never know!), a declivity board can come in handy for other things at times - anything needing to be built (or repaired) at an angle to earth, or leveled and plumbed when your base is not. These adaptations can be quickly made on the spot, for any angle, as needed.
> 
> In its simplest form, a declivity board is a wooden wedge about as long as your level, at a taper to match a particular slope, as required. This is then placed against the side of the level to compensate for the departure from level the slope makes, in either a horizontal or vertical direction. See image #2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A declivity board in use
> 
> A somewhat easier-to-use-and-make version is a simple batten tacked to a piece of thin stock at the required angle. But, this also then makes the declivity board 'handed', so the batten must be on both sides to make it both right and left handed. In use, the main issue is to be sure it is being used in the right direction, as it is easy to get things confused! See image #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A simplified declivity board
> 
> I know this is mere trivia and of little use to many, but you still may find it interesting.
> 
> If you Google "ship launching' on YouTube, I guarantee you will find some fascinating videos to watch. There is nothing quite like seeing many thousands of tons of ship moving from dry land to its natural element. Once it starts, little on earth will stop them - and more than a few end up in disaster. If you ever have a chance in life to actually watch a ship launching, do yourself a favor and don't miss it - just be careful where you stand!


Fascinating, never stopped to think about that. Thanks, Don


----------



## shipwright

GnarlyErik said:


> *"Declivity" - a trick for dealing with things out of level or plumb*
> 
> With shipbuilding in the past - and for some larger vessels even now - boats were built 'on the shingle' (beach), meaning they were built on a slope, sometimes quite steep. In fact, before the days of modern machinery, the slope of the building site enabled the builders to move and launch a vessel of many, many tons. And, unless the builder compensated for the angle of the shingle, many items could end up out of kilter once the vessel entered its working environment after launch.
> 
> This was dealt with in at least two ways: "deadrise" and "declivity compensation". ('declivity' means 'down slope' in its Latin origins).
> 
> First, and most obvious is the use of 'deadrise' in the keel and bottom to make the working part of the vessel more or less level during construction, while the keel itself rests at the angle, but still have the vessel float level and properly after launch. This works up to a point, but can get excessive, producing too much 'drag' to the keel (depth at the stern), especially if the slope is steep. Many vessels were built with their framing square (perpendicular) to the slope, with decks, superstructures, etc., so arranged to become level and plumb to 'earth' after launching. This made for interesting and difficult intersections and transitions, but I digress. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compensating for the slope of the building site.
> 
> The subject of this post, is the use of 'declivity boards' during construction. While not many are building boats on the shingle these days (you never know!), a declivity board can come in handy for other things at times - anything needing to be built (or repaired) at an angle to earth, or leveled and plumbed when your base is not. These adaptations can be quickly made on the spot, for any angle, as needed.
> 
> In its simplest form, a declivity board is a wooden wedge about as long as your level, at a taper to match a particular slope, as required. This is then placed against the side of the level to compensate for the departure from level the slope makes, in either a horizontal or vertical direction. See image #2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A declivity board in use
> 
> A somewhat easier-to-use-and-make version is a simple batten tacked to a piece of thin stock at the required angle. But, this also then makes the declivity board 'handed', so the batten must be on both sides to make it both right and left handed. In use, the main issue is to be sure it is being used in the right direction, as it is easy to get things confused! See image #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A simplified declivity board
> 
> I know this is mere trivia and of little use to many, but you still may find it interesting.
> 
> If you Google "ship launching' on YouTube, I guarantee you will find some fascinating videos to watch. There is nothing quite like seeing many thousands of tons of ship moving from dry land to its natural element. Once it starts, little on earth will stop them - and more than a few end up in disaster. If you ever have a chance in life to actually watch a ship launching, do yourself a favor and don't miss it - just be careful where you stand!


We used to build right on the launch ways and there were always levels around with declivity boards taped on through the holes in the level and corresponding holes in the board. We had two sets of ways back then and when two boats were being built at the same time , the boats' names would be on the boards. Woe be the lad that used the wrong one to set a galley counter top.

These are great posts to read Eric.


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *"Declivity" - a trick for dealing with things out of level or plumb*
> 
> With shipbuilding in the past - and for some larger vessels even now - boats were built 'on the shingle' (beach), meaning they were built on a slope, sometimes quite steep. In fact, before the days of modern machinery, the slope of the building site enabled the builders to move and launch a vessel of many, many tons. And, unless the builder compensated for the angle of the shingle, many items could end up out of kilter once the vessel entered its working environment after launch.
> 
> This was dealt with in at least two ways: "deadrise" and "declivity compensation". ('declivity' means 'down slope' in its Latin origins).
> 
> First, and most obvious is the use of 'deadrise' in the keel and bottom to make the working part of the vessel more or less level during construction, while the keel itself rests at the angle, but still have the vessel float level and properly after launch. This works up to a point, but can get excessive, producing too much 'drag' to the keel (depth at the stern), especially if the slope is steep. Many vessels were built with their framing square (perpendicular) to the slope, with decks, superstructures, etc., so arranged to become level and plumb to 'earth' after launching. This made for interesting and difficult intersections and transitions, but I digress. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compensating for the slope of the building site.
> 
> The subject of this post, is the use of 'declivity boards' during construction. While not many are building boats on the shingle these days (you never know!), a declivity board can come in handy for other things at times - anything needing to be built (or repaired) at an angle to earth, or leveled and plumbed when your base is not. These adaptations can be quickly made on the spot, for any angle, as needed.
> 
> In its simplest form, a declivity board is a wooden wedge about as long as your level, at a taper to match a particular slope, as required. This is then placed against the side of the level to compensate for the departure from level the slope makes, in either a horizontal or vertical direction. See image #2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A declivity board in use
> 
> A somewhat easier-to-use-and-make version is a simple batten tacked to a piece of thin stock at the required angle. But, this also then makes the declivity board 'handed', so the batten must be on both sides to make it both right and left handed. In use, the main issue is to be sure it is being used in the right direction, as it is easy to get things confused! See image #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A simplified declivity board
> 
> I know this is mere trivia and of little use to many, but you still may find it interesting.
> 
> If you Google "ship launching' on YouTube, I guarantee you will find some fascinating videos to watch. There is nothing quite like seeing many thousands of tons of ship moving from dry land to its natural element. Once it starts, little on earth will stop them - and more than a few end up in disaster. If you ever have a chance in life to actually watch a ship launching, do yourself a favor and don't miss it - just be careful where you stand!


Yes, we used to drill a couple of 1" holes through the declivity board and use hose clamps to bind them to a spirit level. They were dedicated to the boat being built or repaired.


----------



## toeachhisown (Eddie)

GnarlyErik said:


> *"Declivity" - a trick for dealing with things out of level or plumb*
> 
> With shipbuilding in the past - and for some larger vessels even now - boats were built 'on the shingle' (beach), meaning they were built on a slope, sometimes quite steep. In fact, before the days of modern machinery, the slope of the building site enabled the builders to move and launch a vessel of many, many tons. And, unless the builder compensated for the angle of the shingle, many items could end up out of kilter once the vessel entered its working environment after launch.
> 
> This was dealt with in at least two ways: "deadrise" and "declivity compensation". ('declivity' means 'down slope' in its Latin origins).
> 
> First, and most obvious is the use of 'deadrise' in the keel and bottom to make the working part of the vessel more or less level during construction, while the keel itself rests at the angle, but still have the vessel float level and properly after launch. This works up to a point, but can get excessive, producing too much 'drag' to the keel (depth at the stern), especially if the slope is steep. Many vessels were built with their framing square (perpendicular) to the slope, with decks, superstructures, etc., so arranged to become level and plumb to 'earth' after launching. This made for interesting and difficult intersections and transitions, but I digress. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compensating for the slope of the building site.
> 
> The subject of this post, is the use of 'declivity boards' during construction. While not many are building boats on the shingle these days (you never know!), a declivity board can come in handy for other things at times - anything needing to be built (or repaired) at an angle to earth, or leveled and plumbed when your base is not. These adaptations can be quickly made on the spot, for any angle, as needed.
> 
> In its simplest form, a declivity board is a wooden wedge about as long as your level, at a taper to match a particular slope, as required. This is then placed against the side of the level to compensate for the departure from level the slope makes, in either a horizontal or vertical direction. See image #2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A declivity board in use
> 
> A somewhat easier-to-use-and-make version is a simple batten tacked to a piece of thin stock at the required angle. But, this also then makes the declivity board 'handed', so the batten must be on both sides to make it both right and left handed. In use, the main issue is to be sure it is being used in the right direction, as it is easy to get things confused! See image #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A simplified declivity board
> 
> I know this is mere trivia and of little use to many, but you still may find it interesting.
> 
> If you Google "ship launching' on YouTube, I guarantee you will find some fascinating videos to watch. There is nothing quite like seeing many thousands of tons of ship moving from dry land to its natural element. Once it starts, little on earth will stop them - and more than a few end up in disaster. If you ever have a chance in life to actually watch a ship launching, do yourself a favor and don't miss it - just be careful where you stand!


find it very interesting ,thanks Eric


----------



## greg48

GnarlyErik said:


> *"Declivity" - a trick for dealing with things out of level or plumb*
> 
> With shipbuilding in the past - and for some larger vessels even now - boats were built 'on the shingle' (beach), meaning they were built on a slope, sometimes quite steep. In fact, before the days of modern machinery, the slope of the building site enabled the builders to move and launch a vessel of many, many tons. And, unless the builder compensated for the angle of the shingle, many items could end up out of kilter once the vessel entered its working environment after launch.
> 
> This was dealt with in at least two ways: "deadrise" and "declivity compensation". ('declivity' means 'down slope' in its Latin origins).
> 
> First, and most obvious is the use of 'deadrise' in the keel and bottom to make the working part of the vessel more or less level during construction, while the keel itself rests at the angle, but still have the vessel float level and properly after launch. This works up to a point, but can get excessive, producing too much 'drag' to the keel (depth at the stern), especially if the slope is steep. Many vessels were built with their framing square (perpendicular) to the slope, with decks, superstructures, etc., so arranged to become level and plumb to 'earth' after launching. This made for interesting and difficult intersections and transitions, but I digress. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compensating for the slope of the building site.
> 
> The subject of this post, is the use of 'declivity boards' during construction. While not many are building boats on the shingle these days (you never know!), a declivity board can come in handy for other things at times - anything needing to be built (or repaired) at an angle to earth, or leveled and plumbed when your base is not. These adaptations can be quickly made on the spot, for any angle, as needed.
> 
> In its simplest form, a declivity board is a wooden wedge about as long as your level, at a taper to match a particular slope, as required. This is then placed against the side of the level to compensate for the departure from level the slope makes, in either a horizontal or vertical direction. See image #2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A declivity board in use
> 
> A somewhat easier-to-use-and-make version is a simple batten tacked to a piece of thin stock at the required angle. But, this also then makes the declivity board 'handed', so the batten must be on both sides to make it both right and left handed. In use, the main issue is to be sure it is being used in the right direction, as it is easy to get things confused! See image #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A simplified declivity board
> 
> I know this is mere trivia and of little use to many, but you still may find it interesting.
> 
> If you Google "ship launching' on YouTube, I guarantee you will find some fascinating videos to watch. There is nothing quite like seeing many thousands of tons of ship moving from dry land to its natural element. Once it starts, little on earth will stop them - and more than a few end up in disaster. If you ever have a chance in life to actually watch a ship launching, do yourself a favor and don't miss it - just be careful where you stand!


Your a lifesaver, my eyes are getting to weak to read scales to the nearest 1/32". Thanks for the post(s).


----------



## Boatman53

GnarlyErik said:


> *"Declivity" - a trick for dealing with things out of level or plumb*
> 
> With shipbuilding in the past - and for some larger vessels even now - boats were built 'on the shingle' (beach), meaning they were built on a slope, sometimes quite steep. In fact, before the days of modern machinery, the slope of the building site enabled the builders to move and launch a vessel of many, many tons. And, unless the builder compensated for the angle of the shingle, many items could end up out of kilter once the vessel entered its working environment after launch.
> 
> This was dealt with in at least two ways: "deadrise" and "declivity compensation". ('declivity' means 'down slope' in its Latin origins).
> 
> First, and most obvious is the use of 'deadrise' in the keel and bottom to make the working part of the vessel more or less level during construction, while the keel itself rests at the angle, but still have the vessel float level and properly after launch. This works up to a point, but can get excessive, producing too much 'drag' to the keel (depth at the stern), especially if the slope is steep. Many vessels were built with their framing square (perpendicular) to the slope, with decks, superstructures, etc., so arranged to become level and plumb to 'earth' after launching. This made for interesting and difficult intersections and transitions, but I digress. See image #1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compensating for the slope of the building site.
> 
> The subject of this post, is the use of 'declivity boards' during construction. While not many are building boats on the shingle these days (you never know!), a declivity board can come in handy for other things at times - anything needing to be built (or repaired) at an angle to earth, or leveled and plumbed when your base is not. These adaptations can be quickly made on the spot, for any angle, as needed.
> 
> In its simplest form, a declivity board is a wooden wedge about as long as your level, at a taper to match a particular slope, as required. This is then placed against the side of the level to compensate for the departure from level the slope makes, in either a horizontal or vertical direction. See image #2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A declivity board in use
> 
> A somewhat easier-to-use-and-make version is a simple batten tacked to a piece of thin stock at the required angle. But, this also then makes the declivity board 'handed', so the batten must be on both sides to make it both right and left handed. In use, the main issue is to be sure it is being used in the right direction, as it is easy to get things confused! See image #3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A simplified declivity board
> 
> I know this is mere trivia and of little use to many, but you still may find it interesting.
> 
> If you Google "ship launching' on YouTube, I guarantee you will find some fascinating videos to watch. There is nothing quite like seeing many thousands of tons of ship moving from dry land to its natural element. Once it starts, little on earth will stop them - and more than a few end up in disaster. If you ever have a chance in life to actually watch a ship launching, do yourself a favor and don't miss it - just be careful where you stand!


Thanks for sharing this tip. I have used a plumb bob and a framing square for quick jobs and for comparing different parts that I might be working on. 
Jim


----------



## GnarlyErik

*Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them! (Part One)*

When working with non-squared and oddly shaped things - like boats, you generally need starting and reference points. The most convenient usually being from the "centers" of something. One general approach is to 'work from the centers out', which seems to work well overall too most times.

For a simple example, suppose you must install a seat in a boat (or, a seat bottom in a chair). You may know the seat width or depth, but ends are not squared to that. Working from centerlines is the handiest and most accurate way to layout your stock, and will best insure your end result is symmetrical. See image #1:









Image 1 - Finding centerline with try square and intersecting arcs

It is usually easy to find the center in a least one direction - simply use your ruler - or divide your dimension graphically as in my post on dividing into equal parts: (http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33282)

A try square may be used to draw 45 degree angles from the intersections (Image #1). Or, for relatively small dimensions, you may use a compass to swing equal arcs from the endpoints of a common line, which will intersect at your center line. (Image #1).

And here is a little "Gee Whiz" multi-tool you can make yourself in a half hour or so, to find the centers of round stock. You can buy a manufactured tool similar to this called a combination square with a centering head if money is no object, and there are various cheap plastic ones available too. Machinists and lathe using folks use centering heads. (Image #2, #3 & #4).









Image #2 - Layout of Gee Whiz

And, here is how it is used:









Finding center for round stock









Finding center for round stock - mark from two or more locations on end of stock and where lines intersect is the center.

But, this shop made multi-use version can also find and mark the center on long stock like planks (NOT a tapered planks!). In use, this Gee Whiz is slid along the plank with the pins held in contact with either edge of your plank, and a pencil inserted in the centering hole will mark the centerline down the length of the plank, except very near the ends - a straight edge can extend those.

The pictures should explain how this Gee Whiz is made.









Image #5 - Design of plank center finding side of Gee Whiz

If you make one, be very precise to locate your center hole EXACTLY CENTERED between the two pins since any error will be multiplied by two. The pins themselves are screws with the heads cut off and the ends filed for safety, and small bolts are even better. Nails will work too, except they tend to quickly get wobbly in use. You will notice a bit of a countersink at each hole in the pictures. That is so a tapered pencil point can be easily placed in the hole. Just be careful the countersink stops about an 1/8" from the marking side so the hole doesn't wallow out, and in use, be sure to hold your pencil as nearly vertical as possible when marking. If you paint this 'bright' it can be easily found on your workbench or shop wall. Once you try one, you may use it more than you think! See image #6:









Image #5 - Finding & Marking center of length of plank

The overall shape of this tool is unimportant as long as the geometry is followed. Build one to suit your fancy!

You may also notice this Gee Whiz has two extra pencil holes, which I will try to explain the reason and use for, and where they should be placed in another post. Most wooden boatbuilders will already know the reason for those.

(and, here is the reason posted in a follow-up (part two) of this topic: http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328)

I hope you find this helpful!


----------



## HillbillyShooter

GnarlyErik said:


> *Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them! (Part One)*
> 
> When working with non-squared and oddly shaped things - like boats, you generally need starting and reference points. The most convenient usually being from the "centers" of something. One general approach is to 'work from the centers out', which seems to work well overall too most times.
> 
> For a simple example, suppose you must install a seat in a boat (or, a seat bottom in a chair). You may know the seat width or depth, but ends are not squared to that. Working from centerlines is the handiest and most accurate way to layout your stock, and will best insure your end result is symmetrical. See image #1:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image 1 - Finding centerline with try square and intersecting arcs
> 
> It is usually easy to find the center in a least one direction - simply use your ruler - or divide your dimension graphically as in my post on dividing into equal parts: (http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33282)
> 
> A try square may be used to draw 45 degree angles from the intersections (Image #1). Or, for relatively small dimensions, you may use a compass to swing equal arcs from the endpoints of a common line, which will intersect at your center line. (Image #1).
> 
> And here is a little "Gee Whiz" multi-tool you can make yourself in a half hour or so, to find the centers of round stock. You can buy a manufactured tool similar to this called a combination square with a centering head if money is no object, and there are various cheap plastic ones available too. Machinists and lathe using folks use centering heads. (Image #2, #3 & #4).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #2 - Layout of Gee Whiz
> 
> And, here is how it is used:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finding center for round stock
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finding center for round stock - mark from two or more locations on end of stock and where lines intersect is the center.
> 
> But, this shop made multi-use version can also find and mark the center on long stock like planks (NOT a tapered planks!). In use, this Gee Whiz is slid along the plank with the pins held in contact with either edge of your plank, and a pencil inserted in the centering hole will mark the centerline down the length of the plank, except very near the ends - a straight edge can extend those.
> 
> The pictures should explain how this Gee Whiz is made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #5 - Design of plank center finding side of Gee Whiz
> 
> If you make one, be very precise to locate your center hole EXACTLY CENTERED between the two pins since any error will be multiplied by two. The pins themselves are screws with the heads cut off and the ends filed for safety, and small bolts are even better. Nails will work too, except they tend to quickly get wobbly in use. You will notice a bit of a countersink at each hole in the pictures. That is so a tapered pencil point can be easily placed in the hole. Just be careful the countersink stops about an 1/8" from the marking side so the hole doesn't wallow out, and in use, be sure to hold your pencil as nearly vertical as possible when marking. If you paint this 'bright' it can be easily found on your workbench or shop wall. Once you try one, you may use it more than you think! See image #6:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #5 - Finding & Marking center of length of plank
> 
> The overall shape of this tool is unimportant as long as the geometry is followed. Build one to suit your fancy!
> 
> You may also notice this Gee Whiz has two extra pencil holes, which I will try to explain the reason and use for, and where they should be placed in another post. Most wooden boatbuilders will already know the reason for those.
> 
> (and, here is the reason posted in a follow-up (part two) of this topic: http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328)
> 
> I hope you find this helpful!


Thanks. Your "Gee Whiz" multi-tool goes to the top of my "to do" list. Another for my favorites.


----------



## shipwright

GnarlyErik said:


> *Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them! (Part One)*
> 
> When working with non-squared and oddly shaped things - like boats, you generally need starting and reference points. The most convenient usually being from the "centers" of something. One general approach is to 'work from the centers out', which seems to work well overall too most times.
> 
> For a simple example, suppose you must install a seat in a boat (or, a seat bottom in a chair). You may know the seat width or depth, but ends are not squared to that. Working from centerlines is the handiest and most accurate way to layout your stock, and will best insure your end result is symmetrical. See image #1:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image 1 - Finding centerline with try square and intersecting arcs
> 
> It is usually easy to find the center in a least one direction - simply use your ruler - or divide your dimension graphically as in my post on dividing into equal parts: (http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33282)
> 
> A try square may be used to draw 45 degree angles from the intersections (Image #1). Or, for relatively small dimensions, you may use a compass to swing equal arcs from the endpoints of a common line, which will intersect at your center line. (Image #1).
> 
> And here is a little "Gee Whiz" multi-tool you can make yourself in a half hour or so, to find the centers of round stock. You can buy a manufactured tool similar to this called a combination square with a centering head if money is no object, and there are various cheap plastic ones available too. Machinists and lathe using folks use centering heads. (Image #2, #3 & #4).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #2 - Layout of Gee Whiz
> 
> And, here is how it is used:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finding center for round stock
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finding center for round stock - mark from two or more locations on end of stock and where lines intersect is the center.
> 
> But, this shop made multi-use version can also find and mark the center on long stock like planks (NOT a tapered planks!). In use, this Gee Whiz is slid along the plank with the pins held in contact with either edge of your plank, and a pencil inserted in the centering hole will mark the centerline down the length of the plank, except very near the ends - a straight edge can extend those.
> 
> The pictures should explain how this Gee Whiz is made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #5 - Design of plank center finding side of Gee Whiz
> 
> If you make one, be very precise to locate your center hole EXACTLY CENTERED between the two pins since any error will be multiplied by two. The pins themselves are screws with the heads cut off and the ends filed for safety, and small bolts are even better. Nails will work too, except they tend to quickly get wobbly in use. You will notice a bit of a countersink at each hole in the pictures. That is so a tapered pencil point can be easily placed in the hole. Just be careful the countersink stops about an 1/8" from the marking side so the hole doesn't wallow out, and in use, be sure to hold your pencil as nearly vertical as possible when marking. If you paint this 'bright' it can be easily found on your workbench or shop wall. Once you try one, you may use it more than you think! See image #6:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #5 - Finding & Marking center of length of plank
> 
> The overall shape of this tool is unimportant as long as the geometry is followed. Build one to suit your fancy!
> 
> You may also notice this Gee Whiz has two extra pencil holes, which I will try to explain the reason and use for, and where they should be placed in another post. Most wooden boatbuilders will already know the reason for those.
> 
> (and, here is the reason posted in a follow-up (part two) of this topic: http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328)
> 
> I hope you find this helpful!


Good post Eric.
Can I make a guess about maybe making a tapered octagon from a tapered square, as in spar making?


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them! (Part One)*
> 
> When working with non-squared and oddly shaped things - like boats, you generally need starting and reference points. The most convenient usually being from the "centers" of something. One general approach is to 'work from the centers out', which seems to work well overall too most times.
> 
> For a simple example, suppose you must install a seat in a boat (or, a seat bottom in a chair). You may know the seat width or depth, but ends are not squared to that. Working from centerlines is the handiest and most accurate way to layout your stock, and will best insure your end result is symmetrical. See image #1:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image 1 - Finding centerline with try square and intersecting arcs
> 
> It is usually easy to find the center in a least one direction - simply use your ruler - or divide your dimension graphically as in my post on dividing into equal parts: (http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33282)
> 
> A try square may be used to draw 45 degree angles from the intersections (Image #1). Or, for relatively small dimensions, you may use a compass to swing equal arcs from the endpoints of a common line, which will intersect at your center line. (Image #1).
> 
> And here is a little "Gee Whiz" multi-tool you can make yourself in a half hour or so, to find the centers of round stock. You can buy a manufactured tool similar to this called a combination square with a centering head if money is no object, and there are various cheap plastic ones available too. Machinists and lathe using folks use centering heads. (Image #2, #3 & #4).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #2 - Layout of Gee Whiz
> 
> And, here is how it is used:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finding center for round stock
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finding center for round stock - mark from two or more locations on end of stock and where lines intersect is the center.
> 
> But, this shop made multi-use version can also find and mark the center on long stock like planks (NOT a tapered planks!). In use, this Gee Whiz is slid along the plank with the pins held in contact with either edge of your plank, and a pencil inserted in the centering hole will mark the centerline down the length of the plank, except very near the ends - a straight edge can extend those.
> 
> The pictures should explain how this Gee Whiz is made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #5 - Design of plank center finding side of Gee Whiz
> 
> If you make one, be very precise to locate your center hole EXACTLY CENTERED between the two pins since any error will be multiplied by two. The pins themselves are screws with the heads cut off and the ends filed for safety, and small bolts are even better. Nails will work too, except they tend to quickly get wobbly in use. You will notice a bit of a countersink at each hole in the pictures. That is so a tapered pencil point can be easily placed in the hole. Just be careful the countersink stops about an 1/8" from the marking side so the hole doesn't wallow out, and in use, be sure to hold your pencil as nearly vertical as possible when marking. If you paint this 'bright' it can be easily found on your workbench or shop wall. Once you try one, you may use it more than you think! See image #6:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #5 - Finding & Marking center of length of plank
> 
> The overall shape of this tool is unimportant as long as the geometry is followed. Build one to suit your fancy!
> 
> You may also notice this Gee Whiz has two extra pencil holes, which I will try to explain the reason and use for, and where they should be placed in another post. Most wooden boatbuilders will already know the reason for those.
> 
> (and, here is the reason posted in a follow-up (part two) of this topic: http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328)
> 
> I hope you find this helpful!


Yes, I figured boat and spar folks will know the eight-siding layout/tapering scribing twitch. Obviously you are familiar with the technique, and I will post on that in a day or so.


----------



## littlecope

GnarlyErik said:


> *Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them! (Part One)*
> 
> When working with non-squared and oddly shaped things - like boats, you generally need starting and reference points. The most convenient usually being from the "centers" of something. One general approach is to 'work from the centers out', which seems to work well overall too most times.
> 
> For a simple example, suppose you must install a seat in a boat (or, a seat bottom in a chair). You may know the seat width or depth, but ends are not squared to that. Working from centerlines is the handiest and most accurate way to layout your stock, and will best insure your end result is symmetrical. See image #1:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image 1 - Finding centerline with try square and intersecting arcs
> 
> It is usually easy to find the center in a least one direction - simply use your ruler - or divide your dimension graphically as in my post on dividing into equal parts: (http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33282)
> 
> A try square may be used to draw 45 degree angles from the intersections (Image #1). Or, for relatively small dimensions, you may use a compass to swing equal arcs from the endpoints of a common line, which will intersect at your center line. (Image #1).
> 
> And here is a little "Gee Whiz" multi-tool you can make yourself in a half hour or so, to find the centers of round stock. You can buy a manufactured tool similar to this called a combination square with a centering head if money is no object, and there are various cheap plastic ones available too. Machinists and lathe using folks use centering heads. (Image #2, #3 & #4).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #2 - Layout of Gee Whiz
> 
> And, here is how it is used:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finding center for round stock
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finding center for round stock - mark from two or more locations on end of stock and where lines intersect is the center.
> 
> But, this shop made multi-use version can also find and mark the center on long stock like planks (NOT a tapered planks!). In use, this Gee Whiz is slid along the plank with the pins held in contact with either edge of your plank, and a pencil inserted in the centering hole will mark the centerline down the length of the plank, except very near the ends - a straight edge can extend those.
> 
> The pictures should explain how this Gee Whiz is made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #5 - Design of plank center finding side of Gee Whiz
> 
> If you make one, be very precise to locate your center hole EXACTLY CENTERED between the two pins since any error will be multiplied by two. The pins themselves are screws with the heads cut off and the ends filed for safety, and small bolts are even better. Nails will work too, except they tend to quickly get wobbly in use. You will notice a bit of a countersink at each hole in the pictures. That is so a tapered pencil point can be easily placed in the hole. Just be careful the countersink stops about an 1/8" from the marking side so the hole doesn't wallow out, and in use, be sure to hold your pencil as nearly vertical as possible when marking. If you paint this 'bright' it can be easily found on your workbench or shop wall. Once you try one, you may use it more than you think! See image #6:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #5 - Finding & Marking center of length of plank
> 
> The overall shape of this tool is unimportant as long as the geometry is followed. Build one to suit your fancy!
> 
> You may also notice this Gee Whiz has two extra pencil holes, which I will try to explain the reason and use for, and where they should be placed in another post. Most wooden boatbuilders will already know the reason for those.
> 
> (and, here is the reason posted in a follow-up (part two) of this topic: http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328)
> 
> I hope you find this helpful!


Thoroughly enjoying your Blog Series Eric. 
Please, keep them coming!! And Thank You!!


----------



## RaggedKerf

GnarlyErik said:


> *Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them! (Part One)*
> 
> When working with non-squared and oddly shaped things - like boats, you generally need starting and reference points. The most convenient usually being from the "centers" of something. One general approach is to 'work from the centers out', which seems to work well overall too most times.
> 
> For a simple example, suppose you must install a seat in a boat (or, a seat bottom in a chair). You may know the seat width or depth, but ends are not squared to that. Working from centerlines is the handiest and most accurate way to layout your stock, and will best insure your end result is symmetrical. See image #1:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image 1 - Finding centerline with try square and intersecting arcs
> 
> It is usually easy to find the center in a least one direction - simply use your ruler - or divide your dimension graphically as in my post on dividing into equal parts: (http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33282)
> 
> A try square may be used to draw 45 degree angles from the intersections (Image #1). Or, for relatively small dimensions, you may use a compass to swing equal arcs from the endpoints of a common line, which will intersect at your center line. (Image #1).
> 
> And here is a little "Gee Whiz" multi-tool you can make yourself in a half hour or so, to find the centers of round stock. You can buy a manufactured tool similar to this called a combination square with a centering head if money is no object, and there are various cheap plastic ones available too. Machinists and lathe using folks use centering heads. (Image #2, #3 & #4).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #2 - Layout of Gee Whiz
> 
> And, here is how it is used:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finding center for round stock
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finding center for round stock - mark from two or more locations on end of stock and where lines intersect is the center.
> 
> But, this shop made multi-use version can also find and mark the center on long stock like planks (NOT a tapered planks!). In use, this Gee Whiz is slid along the plank with the pins held in contact with either edge of your plank, and a pencil inserted in the centering hole will mark the centerline down the length of the plank, except very near the ends - a straight edge can extend those.
> 
> The pictures should explain how this Gee Whiz is made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #5 - Design of plank center finding side of Gee Whiz
> 
> If you make one, be very precise to locate your center hole EXACTLY CENTERED between the two pins since any error will be multiplied by two. The pins themselves are screws with the heads cut off and the ends filed for safety, and small bolts are even better. Nails will work too, except they tend to quickly get wobbly in use. You will notice a bit of a countersink at each hole in the pictures. That is so a tapered pencil point can be easily placed in the hole. Just be careful the countersink stops about an 1/8" from the marking side so the hole doesn't wallow out, and in use, be sure to hold your pencil as nearly vertical as possible when marking. If you paint this 'bright' it can be easily found on your workbench or shop wall. Once you try one, you may use it more than you think! See image #6:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #5 - Finding & Marking center of length of plank
> 
> The overall shape of this tool is unimportant as long as the geometry is followed. Build one to suit your fancy!
> 
> You may also notice this Gee Whiz has two extra pencil holes, which I will try to explain the reason and use for, and where they should be placed in another post. Most wooden boatbuilders will already know the reason for those.
> 
> (and, here is the reason posted in a follow-up (part two) of this topic: http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328)
> 
> I hope you find this helpful!


Okay, mind officially blown. Awesome. I'll be making a Gee Whiz very soon! Thanks so much for these tips, it's eye opening to say the least!


----------



## toeachhisown (Eddie)

GnarlyErik said:


> *Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them! (Part One)*
> 
> When working with non-squared and oddly shaped things - like boats, you generally need starting and reference points. The most convenient usually being from the "centers" of something. One general approach is to 'work from the centers out', which seems to work well overall too most times.
> 
> For a simple example, suppose you must install a seat in a boat (or, a seat bottom in a chair). You may know the seat width or depth, but ends are not squared to that. Working from centerlines is the handiest and most accurate way to layout your stock, and will best insure your end result is symmetrical. See image #1:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image 1 - Finding centerline with try square and intersecting arcs
> 
> It is usually easy to find the center in a least one direction - simply use your ruler - or divide your dimension graphically as in my post on dividing into equal parts: (http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33282)
> 
> A try square may be used to draw 45 degree angles from the intersections (Image #1). Or, for relatively small dimensions, you may use a compass to swing equal arcs from the endpoints of a common line, which will intersect at your center line. (Image #1).
> 
> And here is a little "Gee Whiz" multi-tool you can make yourself in a half hour or so, to find the centers of round stock. You can buy a manufactured tool similar to this called a combination square with a centering head if money is no object, and there are various cheap plastic ones available too. Machinists and lathe using folks use centering heads. (Image #2, #3 & #4).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #2 - Layout of Gee Whiz
> 
> And, here is how it is used:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finding center for round stock
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finding center for round stock - mark from two or more locations on end of stock and where lines intersect is the center.
> 
> But, this shop made multi-use version can also find and mark the center on long stock like planks (NOT a tapered planks!). In use, this Gee Whiz is slid along the plank with the pins held in contact with either edge of your plank, and a pencil inserted in the centering hole will mark the centerline down the length of the plank, except very near the ends - a straight edge can extend those.
> 
> The pictures should explain how this Gee Whiz is made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #5 - Design of plank center finding side of Gee Whiz
> 
> If you make one, be very precise to locate your center hole EXACTLY CENTERED between the two pins since any error will be multiplied by two. The pins themselves are screws with the heads cut off and the ends filed for safety, and small bolts are even better. Nails will work too, except they tend to quickly get wobbly in use. You will notice a bit of a countersink at each hole in the pictures. That is so a tapered pencil point can be easily placed in the hole. Just be careful the countersink stops about an 1/8" from the marking side so the hole doesn't wallow out, and in use, be sure to hold your pencil as nearly vertical as possible when marking. If you paint this 'bright' it can be easily found on your workbench or shop wall. Once you try one, you may use it more than you think! See image #6:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #5 - Finding & Marking center of length of plank
> 
> The overall shape of this tool is unimportant as long as the geometry is followed. Build one to suit your fancy!
> 
> You may also notice this Gee Whiz has two extra pencil holes, which I will try to explain the reason and use for, and where they should be placed in another post. Most wooden boatbuilders will already know the reason for those.
> 
> (and, here is the reason posted in a follow-up (part two) of this topic: http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328)
> 
> I hope you find this helpful!


this is plowing pretty deep ,quit interesting


----------



## lightweightladylefty

GnarlyErik said:


> *Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them! (Part One)*
> 
> When working with non-squared and oddly shaped things - like boats, you generally need starting and reference points. The most convenient usually being from the "centers" of something. One general approach is to 'work from the centers out', which seems to work well overall too most times.
> 
> For a simple example, suppose you must install a seat in a boat (or, a seat bottom in a chair). You may know the seat width or depth, but ends are not squared to that. Working from centerlines is the handiest and most accurate way to layout your stock, and will best insure your end result is symmetrical. See image #1:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image 1 - Finding centerline with try square and intersecting arcs
> 
> It is usually easy to find the center in a least one direction - simply use your ruler - or divide your dimension graphically as in my post on dividing into equal parts: (http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33282)
> 
> A try square may be used to draw 45 degree angles from the intersections (Image #1). Or, for relatively small dimensions, you may use a compass to swing equal arcs from the endpoints of a common line, which will intersect at your center line. (Image #1).
> 
> And here is a little "Gee Whiz" multi-tool you can make yourself in a half hour or so, to find the centers of round stock. You can buy a manufactured tool similar to this called a combination square with a centering head if money is no object, and there are various cheap plastic ones available too. Machinists and lathe using folks use centering heads. (Image #2, #3 & #4).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #2 - Layout of Gee Whiz
> 
> And, here is how it is used:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finding center for round stock
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finding center for round stock - mark from two or more locations on end of stock and where lines intersect is the center.
> 
> But, this shop made multi-use version can also find and mark the center on long stock like planks (NOT a tapered planks!). In use, this Gee Whiz is slid along the plank with the pins held in contact with either edge of your plank, and a pencil inserted in the centering hole will mark the centerline down the length of the plank, except very near the ends - a straight edge can extend those.
> 
> The pictures should explain how this Gee Whiz is made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #5 - Design of plank center finding side of Gee Whiz
> 
> If you make one, be very precise to locate your center hole EXACTLY CENTERED between the two pins since any error will be multiplied by two. The pins themselves are screws with the heads cut off and the ends filed for safety, and small bolts are even better. Nails will work too, except they tend to quickly get wobbly in use. You will notice a bit of a countersink at each hole in the pictures. That is so a tapered pencil point can be easily placed in the hole. Just be careful the countersink stops about an 1/8" from the marking side so the hole doesn't wallow out, and in use, be sure to hold your pencil as nearly vertical as possible when marking. If you paint this 'bright' it can be easily found on your workbench or shop wall. Once you try one, you may use it more than you think! See image #6:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #5 - Finding & Marking center of length of plank
> 
> The overall shape of this tool is unimportant as long as the geometry is followed. Build one to suit your fancy!
> 
> You may also notice this Gee Whiz has two extra pencil holes, which I will try to explain the reason and use for, and where they should be placed in another post. Most wooden boatbuilders will already know the reason for those.
> 
> (and, here is the reason posted in a follow-up (part two) of this topic: http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328)
> 
> I hope you find this helpful!


Erik,

It is so nice to come to "school" here and not get charged a fortune! How generous of you to share your expertise free. I'll need to take time off from work in the shop to make all your wonderful work aids. Ultimately it should speed up my work in the shop, but as slow as I am at making jigs and fixtures, it could be negligible. ;-)

Thanks so much for sharing.

L/W


----------



## superdav721

GnarlyErik said:


> *Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them! (Part One)*
> 
> When working with non-squared and oddly shaped things - like boats, you generally need starting and reference points. The most convenient usually being from the "centers" of something. One general approach is to 'work from the centers out', which seems to work well overall too most times.
> 
> For a simple example, suppose you must install a seat in a boat (or, a seat bottom in a chair). You may know the seat width or depth, but ends are not squared to that. Working from centerlines is the handiest and most accurate way to layout your stock, and will best insure your end result is symmetrical. See image #1:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image 1 - Finding centerline with try square and intersecting arcs
> 
> It is usually easy to find the center in a least one direction - simply use your ruler - or divide your dimension graphically as in my post on dividing into equal parts: (http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33282)
> 
> A try square may be used to draw 45 degree angles from the intersections (Image #1). Or, for relatively small dimensions, you may use a compass to swing equal arcs from the endpoints of a common line, which will intersect at your center line. (Image #1).
> 
> And here is a little "Gee Whiz" multi-tool you can make yourself in a half hour or so, to find the centers of round stock. You can buy a manufactured tool similar to this called a combination square with a centering head if money is no object, and there are various cheap plastic ones available too. Machinists and lathe using folks use centering heads. (Image #2, #3 & #4).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #2 - Layout of Gee Whiz
> 
> And, here is how it is used:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finding center for round stock
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finding center for round stock - mark from two or more locations on end of stock and where lines intersect is the center.
> 
> But, this shop made multi-use version can also find and mark the center on long stock like planks (NOT a tapered planks!). In use, this Gee Whiz is slid along the plank with the pins held in contact with either edge of your plank, and a pencil inserted in the centering hole will mark the centerline down the length of the plank, except very near the ends - a straight edge can extend those.
> 
> The pictures should explain how this Gee Whiz is made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #5 - Design of plank center finding side of Gee Whiz
> 
> If you make one, be very precise to locate your center hole EXACTLY CENTERED between the two pins since any error will be multiplied by two. The pins themselves are screws with the heads cut off and the ends filed for safety, and small bolts are even better. Nails will work too, except they tend to quickly get wobbly in use. You will notice a bit of a countersink at each hole in the pictures. That is so a tapered pencil point can be easily placed in the hole. Just be careful the countersink stops about an 1/8" from the marking side so the hole doesn't wallow out, and in use, be sure to hold your pencil as nearly vertical as possible when marking. If you paint this 'bright' it can be easily found on your workbench or shop wall. Once you try one, you may use it more than you think! See image #6:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image #5 - Finding & Marking center of length of plank
> 
> The overall shape of this tool is unimportant as long as the geometry is followed. Build one to suit your fancy!
> 
> You may also notice this Gee Whiz has two extra pencil holes, which I will try to explain the reason and use for, and where they should be placed in another post. Most wooden boatbuilders will already know the reason for those.
> 
> (and, here is the reason posted in a follow-up (part two) of this topic: http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328)
> 
> I hope you find this helpful!


I love it!


----------



## GnarlyErik

*Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them! (Part Two)*

Here's a little esoteric 'how-to' for those times you can not buy the 'round' you need in the size or material you want. This is a basic spar or mast builder's technique which works for making things round and long.

Almost all wooden masts have traditionally been built with a changing taper, diminishing towards the top. In ancient Grecian and Roman times, many of their architectural columns in their buildings were gracefully tapered from base to capital, and in fact often, the tapers began at the base in a particular diameter, then the diameter increased slightly for a distance before beginning a graceful, curving decrease in diameter towards the top. Some opinions say these changing curves are based on the human figure, and in particular on the female figure - the lovely taper in a woman's legs in the eyes of a man for example. For whatever reason, the idea of long, graceful tapering columns has carried over for millenia into more recent times in mast and spar building, and many other things too. Tapers also just so happen to be very well suited for making long things like masts smaller (lighter) towards the top, with weight being a penalty against stability the higher it is carried. You even see this in many aluminum light poles along the highways today.

Mast and spar builders over time developed techniques for both rounding something from a square piece of stock, and tapering it towards the end. And, that's where the two extra holes come in in the little Gee Whiz multi-tool presented in part one of "Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them!" (http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33315)

The extra two holes on the Gee Whiz are for laying out the facets on square stock to plane to in order to make the piece octagonal, or '8-sided'. Once planed to eight-sided, the stock can then be accurately rounded from there (on larger rounds, say over 10 or 12 inches, the stock is often '16-sided' after being 8-sided, but the concept is the same, though not the proportions).

In use, the tool is employed exactly as for centering long stock, but the two outermost pencil holes are used in lieu of the center hole. And, no matter the length, or taper, the marks will provide the lines to plane to for the full length of the stock except for the last few inches at the end. Simple as that.

Now, as to how this is laid out, here's how it is done. First, the stock is squared, obviously. Then, at any point along the length of the stock a square is constructed on the side of the stock, the same as the cross section of the stock at that point (or on a bit of scrap on the bench if you prefer). This is next bisected by diagonals to find the centers, and a circle is drawn to fit inside the square of the stock.

Next, tangents are draw at 45 degrees to the edge, where the diagonals bisect the circle. The point where this tangent intersects the edge of the circle marks the point of intersection of one of the facets of the octagon enclosing the circle - and so on around the circle. The fact is you have only to find two of these points to be able to lay out your work, and here is where the Gee Whiz comes in. These two points are proportional to the width, no matter how wide, and that is why the Gee Whiz works for all tapers, the full length of the stock. By keeping the pins against the sides of the square, you keep the same proportion anywhere along the length - not exactly precise at very steep angles, but generally close enough for 'government work' as they say. This is done on all sides of the stock, providing all the meeting points of all eight facets. @

I have included a graphic below which demonstrates the laying out of the points, and which should be easier to understand:









Laying out 8-sides using graphical method

Further, since these proportions are always the same, you can use a ruler to do the same thing, albeit not quite as conveniently. A two-foot folding rule is particularly well suited for this, and to watch an old-timer laying out the facets for 8-siding a mast with his folding rule was like watching magic! Here is how that works:

A two-foot rule (or measurement) is laid out across the stock, so that each end touches an edge. *Marks are made at the 7" point, and the 17" point*. This is done down the length of the stock at convenient points, and then all the marks are connected with a straight edge or batten. Simple as that! (see sketch below)









Laying out 8-sides with two-foot rule

And, any multiples with the same proportions work just as well, for example, a *12" measurement, marked at the 3-1/2"points and 8-1/2" points! *Who'd a-thunk it?

@ And, as my old daddy used to say, "Then, you plane off everything that doesn't look like a mast!"


----------



## shipwright

GnarlyErik said:


> *Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them! (Part Two)*
> 
> Here's a little esoteric 'how-to' for those times you can not buy the 'round' you need in the size or material you want. This is a basic spar or mast builder's technique which works for making things round and long.
> 
> Almost all wooden masts have traditionally been built with a changing taper, diminishing towards the top. In ancient Grecian and Roman times, many of their architectural columns in their buildings were gracefully tapered from base to capital, and in fact often, the tapers began at the base in a particular diameter, then the diameter increased slightly for a distance before beginning a graceful, curving decrease in diameter towards the top. Some opinions say these changing curves are based on the human figure, and in particular on the female figure - the lovely taper in a woman's legs in the eyes of a man for example. For whatever reason, the idea of long, graceful tapering columns has carried over for millenia into more recent times in mast and spar building, and many other things too. Tapers also just so happen to be very well suited for making long things like masts smaller (lighter) towards the top, with weight being a penalty against stability the higher it is carried. You even see this in many aluminum light poles along the highways today.
> 
> Mast and spar builders over time developed techniques for both rounding something from a square piece of stock, and tapering it towards the end. And, that's where the two extra holes come in in the little Gee Whiz multi-tool presented in part one of "Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them!" (http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33315)
> 
> The extra two holes on the Gee Whiz are for laying out the facets on square stock to plane to in order to make the piece octagonal, or '8-sided'. Once planed to eight-sided, the stock can then be accurately rounded from there (on larger rounds, say over 10 or 12 inches, the stock is often '16-sided' after being 8-sided, but the concept is the same, though not the proportions).
> 
> In use, the tool is employed exactly as for centering long stock, but the two outermost pencil holes are used in lieu of the center hole. And, no matter the length, or taper, the marks will provide the lines to plane to for the full length of the stock except for the last few inches at the end. Simple as that.
> 
> Now, as to how this is laid out, here's how it is done. First, the stock is squared, obviously. Then, at any point along the length of the stock a square is constructed on the side of the stock, the same as the cross section of the stock at that point (or on a bit of scrap on the bench if you prefer). This is next bisected by diagonals to find the centers, and a circle is drawn to fit inside the square of the stock.
> 
> Next, tangents are draw at 45 degrees to the edge, where the diagonals bisect the circle. The point where this tangent intersects the edge of the circle marks the point of intersection of one of the facets of the octagon enclosing the circle - and so on around the circle. The fact is you have only to find two of these points to be able to lay out your work, and here is where the Gee Whiz comes in. These two points are proportional to the width, no matter how wide, and that is why the Gee Whiz works for all tapers, the full length of the stock. By keeping the pins against the sides of the square, you keep the same proportion anywhere along the length - not exactly precise at very steep angles, but generally close enough for 'government work' as they say. This is done on all sides of the stock, providing all the meeting points of all eight facets. @
> 
> I have included a graphic below which demonstrates the laying out of the points, and which should be easier to understand:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laying out 8-sides using graphical method
> 
> Further, since these proportions are always the same, you can use a ruler to do the same thing, albeit not quite as conveniently. A two-foot folding rule is particularly well suited for this, and to watch an old-timer laying out the facets for 8-siding a mast with his folding rule was like watching magic! Here is how that works:
> 
> A two-foot rule (or measurement) is laid out across the stock, so that each end touches an edge. *Marks are made at the 7" point, and the 17" point*. This is done down the length of the stock at convenient points, and then all the marks are connected with a straight edge or batten. Simple as that! (see sketch below)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laying out 8-sides with two-foot rule
> 
> And, any multiples with the same proportions work just as well, for example, a *12" measurement, marked at the 3-1/2"points and 8-1/2" points! *Who'd a-thunk it?
> 
> @ And, as my old daddy used to say, "Then, you plane off everything that doesn't look like a mast!"


Very good explanation Eric.


----------



## HillbillyShooter

GnarlyErik said:


> *Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them! (Part Two)*
> 
> Here's a little esoteric 'how-to' for those times you can not buy the 'round' you need in the size or material you want. This is a basic spar or mast builder's technique which works for making things round and long.
> 
> Almost all wooden masts have traditionally been built with a changing taper, diminishing towards the top. In ancient Grecian and Roman times, many of their architectural columns in their buildings were gracefully tapered from base to capital, and in fact often, the tapers began at the base in a particular diameter, then the diameter increased slightly for a distance before beginning a graceful, curving decrease in diameter towards the top. Some opinions say these changing curves are based on the human figure, and in particular on the female figure - the lovely taper in a woman's legs in the eyes of a man for example. For whatever reason, the idea of long, graceful tapering columns has carried over for millenia into more recent times in mast and spar building, and many other things too. Tapers also just so happen to be very well suited for making long things like masts smaller (lighter) towards the top, with weight being a penalty against stability the higher it is carried. You even see this in many aluminum light poles along the highways today.
> 
> Mast and spar builders over time developed techniques for both rounding something from a square piece of stock, and tapering it towards the end. And, that's where the two extra holes come in in the little Gee Whiz multi-tool presented in part one of "Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them!" (http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33315)
> 
> The extra two holes on the Gee Whiz are for laying out the facets on square stock to plane to in order to make the piece octagonal, or '8-sided'. Once planed to eight-sided, the stock can then be accurately rounded from there (on larger rounds, say over 10 or 12 inches, the stock is often '16-sided' after being 8-sided, but the concept is the same, though not the proportions).
> 
> In use, the tool is employed exactly as for centering long stock, but the two outermost pencil holes are used in lieu of the center hole. And, no matter the length, or taper, the marks will provide the lines to plane to for the full length of the stock except for the last few inches at the end. Simple as that.
> 
> Now, as to how this is laid out, here's how it is done. First, the stock is squared, obviously. Then, at any point along the length of the stock a square is constructed on the side of the stock, the same as the cross section of the stock at that point (or on a bit of scrap on the bench if you prefer). This is next bisected by diagonals to find the centers, and a circle is drawn to fit inside the square of the stock.
> 
> Next, tangents are draw at 45 degrees to the edge, where the diagonals bisect the circle. The point where this tangent intersects the edge of the circle marks the point of intersection of one of the facets of the octagon enclosing the circle - and so on around the circle. The fact is you have only to find two of these points to be able to lay out your work, and here is where the Gee Whiz comes in. These two points are proportional to the width, no matter how wide, and that is why the Gee Whiz works for all tapers, the full length of the stock. By keeping the pins against the sides of the square, you keep the same proportion anywhere along the length - not exactly precise at very steep angles, but generally close enough for 'government work' as they say. This is done on all sides of the stock, providing all the meeting points of all eight facets. @
> 
> I have included a graphic below which demonstrates the laying out of the points, and which should be easier to understand:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laying out 8-sides using graphical method
> 
> Further, since these proportions are always the same, you can use a ruler to do the same thing, albeit not quite as conveniently. A two-foot folding rule is particularly well suited for this, and to watch an old-timer laying out the facets for 8-siding a mast with his folding rule was like watching magic! Here is how that works:
> 
> A two-foot rule (or measurement) is laid out across the stock, so that each end touches an edge. *Marks are made at the 7" point, and the 17" point*. This is done down the length of the stock at convenient points, and then all the marks are connected with a straight edge or batten. Simple as that! (see sketch below)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laying out 8-sides with two-foot rule
> 
> And, any multiples with the same proportions work just as well, for example, a *12" measurement, marked at the 3-1/2"points and 8-1/2" points! *Who'd a-thunk it?
> 
> @ And, as my old daddy used to say, "Then, you plane off everything that doesn't look like a mast!"


Thanks, agree on very good explanation.


----------



## oluf

GnarlyErik said:


> *Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them! (Part Two)*
> 
> Here's a little esoteric 'how-to' for those times you can not buy the 'round' you need in the size or material you want. This is a basic spar or mast builder's technique which works for making things round and long.
> 
> Almost all wooden masts have traditionally been built with a changing taper, diminishing towards the top. In ancient Grecian and Roman times, many of their architectural columns in their buildings were gracefully tapered from base to capital, and in fact often, the tapers began at the base in a particular diameter, then the diameter increased slightly for a distance before beginning a graceful, curving decrease in diameter towards the top. Some opinions say these changing curves are based on the human figure, and in particular on the female figure - the lovely taper in a woman's legs in the eyes of a man for example. For whatever reason, the idea of long, graceful tapering columns has carried over for millenia into more recent times in mast and spar building, and many other things too. Tapers also just so happen to be very well suited for making long things like masts smaller (lighter) towards the top, with weight being a penalty against stability the higher it is carried. You even see this in many aluminum light poles along the highways today.
> 
> Mast and spar builders over time developed techniques for both rounding something from a square piece of stock, and tapering it towards the end. And, that's where the two extra holes come in in the little Gee Whiz multi-tool presented in part one of "Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them!" (http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33315)
> 
> The extra two holes on the Gee Whiz are for laying out the facets on square stock to plane to in order to make the piece octagonal, or '8-sided'. Once planed to eight-sided, the stock can then be accurately rounded from there (on larger rounds, say over 10 or 12 inches, the stock is often '16-sided' after being 8-sided, but the concept is the same, though not the proportions).
> 
> In use, the tool is employed exactly as for centering long stock, but the two outermost pencil holes are used in lieu of the center hole. And, no matter the length, or taper, the marks will provide the lines to plane to for the full length of the stock except for the last few inches at the end. Simple as that.
> 
> Now, as to how this is laid out, here's how it is done. First, the stock is squared, obviously. Then, at any point along the length of the stock a square is constructed on the side of the stock, the same as the cross section of the stock at that point (or on a bit of scrap on the bench if you prefer). This is next bisected by diagonals to find the centers, and a circle is drawn to fit inside the square of the stock.
> 
> Next, tangents are draw at 45 degrees to the edge, where the diagonals bisect the circle. The point where this tangent intersects the edge of the circle marks the point of intersection of one of the facets of the octagon enclosing the circle - and so on around the circle. The fact is you have only to find two of these points to be able to lay out your work, and here is where the Gee Whiz comes in. These two points are proportional to the width, no matter how wide, and that is why the Gee Whiz works for all tapers, the full length of the stock. By keeping the pins against the sides of the square, you keep the same proportion anywhere along the length - not exactly precise at very steep angles, but generally close enough for 'government work' as they say. This is done on all sides of the stock, providing all the meeting points of all eight facets. @
> 
> I have included a graphic below which demonstrates the laying out of the points, and which should be easier to understand:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laying out 8-sides using graphical method
> 
> Further, since these proportions are always the same, you can use a ruler to do the same thing, albeit not quite as conveniently. A two-foot folding rule is particularly well suited for this, and to watch an old-timer laying out the facets for 8-siding a mast with his folding rule was like watching magic! Here is how that works:
> 
> A two-foot rule (or measurement) is laid out across the stock, so that each end touches an edge. *Marks are made at the 7" point, and the 17" point*. This is done down the length of the stock at convenient points, and then all the marks are connected with a straight edge or batten. Simple as that! (see sketch below)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laying out 8-sides with two-foot rule
> 
> And, any multiples with the same proportions work just as well, for example, a *12" measurement, marked at the 3-1/2"points and 8-1/2" points! *Who'd a-thunk it?
> 
> @ And, as my old daddy used to say, "Then, you plane off everything that doesn't look like a mast!"


I am learning so much and having a great time reading your blogs. I am eighty two years and have been exposed to woodworking all my life. When I was growing up my Father was a production supervisor in a custom millwork and cabinet shop. I spent many hours there with him. My Father was born in Denmark in 1881 and Served a full apprenticeship there and worked as a master journeyman in Europe before coming to the U.S.A in 1912.

While I am sure that my Father had full knowledge and worked with the things you are writing about I didn't have the opportunity to learn enough from him. He was 49 years old when I was born and with school and four years of navy service we didn't have enough time together. Thank You again for the great training. Nils


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them! (Part Two)*
> 
> Here's a little esoteric 'how-to' for those times you can not buy the 'round' you need in the size or material you want. This is a basic spar or mast builder's technique which works for making things round and long.
> 
> Almost all wooden masts have traditionally been built with a changing taper, diminishing towards the top. In ancient Grecian and Roman times, many of their architectural columns in their buildings were gracefully tapered from base to capital, and in fact often, the tapers began at the base in a particular diameter, then the diameter increased slightly for a distance before beginning a graceful, curving decrease in diameter towards the top. Some opinions say these changing curves are based on the human figure, and in particular on the female figure - the lovely taper in a woman's legs in the eyes of a man for example. For whatever reason, the idea of long, graceful tapering columns has carried over for millenia into more recent times in mast and spar building, and many other things too. Tapers also just so happen to be very well suited for making long things like masts smaller (lighter) towards the top, with weight being a penalty against stability the higher it is carried. You even see this in many aluminum light poles along the highways today.
> 
> Mast and spar builders over time developed techniques for both rounding something from a square piece of stock, and tapering it towards the end. And, that's where the two extra holes come in in the little Gee Whiz multi-tool presented in part one of "Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them!" (http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33315)
> 
> The extra two holes on the Gee Whiz are for laying out the facets on square stock to plane to in order to make the piece octagonal, or '8-sided'. Once planed to eight-sided, the stock can then be accurately rounded from there (on larger rounds, say over 10 or 12 inches, the stock is often '16-sided' after being 8-sided, but the concept is the same, though not the proportions).
> 
> In use, the tool is employed exactly as for centering long stock, but the two outermost pencil holes are used in lieu of the center hole. And, no matter the length, or taper, the marks will provide the lines to plane to for the full length of the stock except for the last few inches at the end. Simple as that.
> 
> Now, as to how this is laid out, here's how it is done. First, the stock is squared, obviously. Then, at any point along the length of the stock a square is constructed on the side of the stock, the same as the cross section of the stock at that point (or on a bit of scrap on the bench if you prefer). This is next bisected by diagonals to find the centers, and a circle is drawn to fit inside the square of the stock.
> 
> Next, tangents are draw at 45 degrees to the edge, where the diagonals bisect the circle. The point where this tangent intersects the edge of the circle marks the point of intersection of one of the facets of the octagon enclosing the circle - and so on around the circle. The fact is you have only to find two of these points to be able to lay out your work, and here is where the Gee Whiz comes in. These two points are proportional to the width, no matter how wide, and that is why the Gee Whiz works for all tapers, the full length of the stock. By keeping the pins against the sides of the square, you keep the same proportion anywhere along the length - not exactly precise at very steep angles, but generally close enough for 'government work' as they say. This is done on all sides of the stock, providing all the meeting points of all eight facets. @
> 
> I have included a graphic below which demonstrates the laying out of the points, and which should be easier to understand:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laying out 8-sides using graphical method
> 
> Further, since these proportions are always the same, you can use a ruler to do the same thing, albeit not quite as conveniently. A two-foot folding rule is particularly well suited for this, and to watch an old-timer laying out the facets for 8-siding a mast with his folding rule was like watching magic! Here is how that works:
> 
> A two-foot rule (or measurement) is laid out across the stock, so that each end touches an edge. *Marks are made at the 7" point, and the 17" point*. This is done down the length of the stock at convenient points, and then all the marks are connected with a straight edge or batten. Simple as that! (see sketch below)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laying out 8-sides with two-foot rule
> 
> And, any multiples with the same proportions work just as well, for example, a *12" measurement, marked at the 3-1/2"points and 8-1/2" points! *Who'd a-thunk it?
> 
> @ And, as my old daddy used to say, "Then, you plane off everything that doesn't look like a mast!"


Thanks to all for the nice comments! And Nils, you are never too old to learn new things - and I believe learning keeps you young, at least in mind. Besides, at 81 you are only a few years older than me (I'm in my 70's). My wife claims I haven't grown up, and she's still trying to make me behave. My dad also immigrated - from Norway in 1926 - and he had a wealth of experience to share with me. Only, it was more like 'forced labor', or 'sing for your supper', which was a phrase he often used. In other words, he believed in earning your keep, and fully expected us kids to work in the boat shop (or any other place he assigned as he wished) without pay, or complaint. And, somehow we didn't even mind! He was generous in everything besides actual money. My dad was a tough task master, but he gave me probably the best grounding ever, for a career which provided for my family and which I enjoyed immensely. Everyone should be so lucky!


----------



## lightweightladylefty

GnarlyErik said:


> *Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them! (Part Two)*
> 
> Here's a little esoteric 'how-to' for those times you can not buy the 'round' you need in the size or material you want. This is a basic spar or mast builder's technique which works for making things round and long.
> 
> Almost all wooden masts have traditionally been built with a changing taper, diminishing towards the top. In ancient Grecian and Roman times, many of their architectural columns in their buildings were gracefully tapered from base to capital, and in fact often, the tapers began at the base in a particular diameter, then the diameter increased slightly for a distance before beginning a graceful, curving decrease in diameter towards the top. Some opinions say these changing curves are based on the human figure, and in particular on the female figure - the lovely taper in a woman's legs in the eyes of a man for example. For whatever reason, the idea of long, graceful tapering columns has carried over for millenia into more recent times in mast and spar building, and many other things too. Tapers also just so happen to be very well suited for making long things like masts smaller (lighter) towards the top, with weight being a penalty against stability the higher it is carried. You even see this in many aluminum light poles along the highways today.
> 
> Mast and spar builders over time developed techniques for both rounding something from a square piece of stock, and tapering it towards the end. And, that's where the two extra holes come in in the little Gee Whiz multi-tool presented in part one of "Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them!" (http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33315)
> 
> The extra two holes on the Gee Whiz are for laying out the facets on square stock to plane to in order to make the piece octagonal, or '8-sided'. Once planed to eight-sided, the stock can then be accurately rounded from there (on larger rounds, say over 10 or 12 inches, the stock is often '16-sided' after being 8-sided, but the concept is the same, though not the proportions).
> 
> In use, the tool is employed exactly as for centering long stock, but the two outermost pencil holes are used in lieu of the center hole. And, no matter the length, or taper, the marks will provide the lines to plane to for the full length of the stock except for the last few inches at the end. Simple as that.
> 
> Now, as to how this is laid out, here's how it is done. First, the stock is squared, obviously. Then, at any point along the length of the stock a square is constructed on the side of the stock, the same as the cross section of the stock at that point (or on a bit of scrap on the bench if you prefer). This is next bisected by diagonals to find the centers, and a circle is drawn to fit inside the square of the stock.
> 
> Next, tangents are draw at 45 degrees to the edge, where the diagonals bisect the circle. The point where this tangent intersects the edge of the circle marks the point of intersection of one of the facets of the octagon enclosing the circle - and so on around the circle. The fact is you have only to find two of these points to be able to lay out your work, and here is where the Gee Whiz comes in. These two points are proportional to the width, no matter how wide, and that is why the Gee Whiz works for all tapers, the full length of the stock. By keeping the pins against the sides of the square, you keep the same proportion anywhere along the length - not exactly precise at very steep angles, but generally close enough for 'government work' as they say. This is done on all sides of the stock, providing all the meeting points of all eight facets. @
> 
> I have included a graphic below which demonstrates the laying out of the points, and which should be easier to understand:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laying out 8-sides using graphical method
> 
> Further, since these proportions are always the same, you can use a ruler to do the same thing, albeit not quite as conveniently. A two-foot folding rule is particularly well suited for this, and to watch an old-timer laying out the facets for 8-siding a mast with his folding rule was like watching magic! Here is how that works:
> 
> A two-foot rule (or measurement) is laid out across the stock, so that each end touches an edge. *Marks are made at the 7" point, and the 17" point*. This is done down the length of the stock at convenient points, and then all the marks are connected with a straight edge or batten. Simple as that! (see sketch below)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laying out 8-sides with two-foot rule
> 
> And, any multiples with the same proportions work just as well, for example, a *12" measurement, marked at the 3-1/2"points and 8-1/2" points! *Who'd a-thunk it?
> 
> @ And, as my old daddy used to say, "Then, you plane off everything that doesn't look like a mast!"


Erik, Though I may never get a chance to use the knowledge, thanks for another great lesson!

L/W


----------



## Nicky

GnarlyErik said:


> *Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them! (Part Two)*
> 
> Here's a little esoteric 'how-to' for those times you can not buy the 'round' you need in the size or material you want. This is a basic spar or mast builder's technique which works for making things round and long.
> 
> Almost all wooden masts have traditionally been built with a changing taper, diminishing towards the top. In ancient Grecian and Roman times, many of their architectural columns in their buildings were gracefully tapered from base to capital, and in fact often, the tapers began at the base in a particular diameter, then the diameter increased slightly for a distance before beginning a graceful, curving decrease in diameter towards the top. Some opinions say these changing curves are based on the human figure, and in particular on the female figure - the lovely taper in a woman's legs in the eyes of a man for example. For whatever reason, the idea of long, graceful tapering columns has carried over for millenia into more recent times in mast and spar building, and many other things too. Tapers also just so happen to be very well suited for making long things like masts smaller (lighter) towards the top, with weight being a penalty against stability the higher it is carried. You even see this in many aluminum light poles along the highways today.
> 
> Mast and spar builders over time developed techniques for both rounding something from a square piece of stock, and tapering it towards the end. And, that's where the two extra holes come in in the little Gee Whiz multi-tool presented in part one of "Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them!" (http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33315)
> 
> The extra two holes on the Gee Whiz are for laying out the facets on square stock to plane to in order to make the piece octagonal, or '8-sided'. Once planed to eight-sided, the stock can then be accurately rounded from there (on larger rounds, say over 10 or 12 inches, the stock is often '16-sided' after being 8-sided, but the concept is the same, though not the proportions).
> 
> In use, the tool is employed exactly as for centering long stock, but the two outermost pencil holes are used in lieu of the center hole. And, no matter the length, or taper, the marks will provide the lines to plane to for the full length of the stock except for the last few inches at the end. Simple as that.
> 
> Now, as to how this is laid out, here's how it is done. First, the stock is squared, obviously. Then, at any point along the length of the stock a square is constructed on the side of the stock, the same as the cross section of the stock at that point (or on a bit of scrap on the bench if you prefer). This is next bisected by diagonals to find the centers, and a circle is drawn to fit inside the square of the stock.
> 
> Next, tangents are draw at 45 degrees to the edge, where the diagonals bisect the circle. The point where this tangent intersects the edge of the circle marks the point of intersection of one of the facets of the octagon enclosing the circle - and so on around the circle. The fact is you have only to find two of these points to be able to lay out your work, and here is where the Gee Whiz comes in. These two points are proportional to the width, no matter how wide, and that is why the Gee Whiz works for all tapers, the full length of the stock. By keeping the pins against the sides of the square, you keep the same proportion anywhere along the length - not exactly precise at very steep angles, but generally close enough for 'government work' as they say. This is done on all sides of the stock, providing all the meeting points of all eight facets. @
> 
> I have included a graphic below which demonstrates the laying out of the points, and which should be easier to understand:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laying out 8-sides using graphical method
> 
> Further, since these proportions are always the same, you can use a ruler to do the same thing, albeit not quite as conveniently. A two-foot folding rule is particularly well suited for this, and to watch an old-timer laying out the facets for 8-siding a mast with his folding rule was like watching magic! Here is how that works:
> 
> A two-foot rule (or measurement) is laid out across the stock, so that each end touches an edge. *Marks are made at the 7" point, and the 17" point*. This is done down the length of the stock at convenient points, and then all the marks are connected with a straight edge or batten. Simple as that! (see sketch below)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laying out 8-sides with two-foot rule
> 
> And, any multiples with the same proportions work just as well, for example, a *12" measurement, marked at the 3-1/2"points and 8-1/2" points! *Who'd a-thunk it?
> 
> @ And, as my old daddy used to say, "Then, you plane off everything that doesn't look like a mast!"


Thank you for sharing. This (and your other posts) has been very informative.


----------



## Sylvain

GnarlyErik said:


> *Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them! (Part Two)*
> 
> Here's a little esoteric 'how-to' for those times you can not buy the 'round' you need in the size or material you want. This is a basic spar or mast builder's technique which works for making things round and long.
> 
> Almost all wooden masts have traditionally been built with a changing taper, diminishing towards the top. In ancient Grecian and Roman times, many of their architectural columns in their buildings were gracefully tapered from base to capital, and in fact often, the tapers began at the base in a particular diameter, then the diameter increased slightly for a distance before beginning a graceful, curving decrease in diameter towards the top. Some opinions say these changing curves are based on the human figure, and in particular on the female figure - the lovely taper in a woman's legs in the eyes of a man for example. For whatever reason, the idea of long, graceful tapering columns has carried over for millenia into more recent times in mast and spar building, and many other things too. Tapers also just so happen to be very well suited for making long things like masts smaller (lighter) towards the top, with weight being a penalty against stability the higher it is carried. You even see this in many aluminum light poles along the highways today.
> 
> Mast and spar builders over time developed techniques for both rounding something from a square piece of stock, and tapering it towards the end. And, that's where the two extra holes come in in the little Gee Whiz multi-tool presented in part one of "Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them!" (http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33315)
> 
> The extra two holes on the Gee Whiz are for laying out the facets on square stock to plane to in order to make the piece octagonal, or '8-sided'. Once planed to eight-sided, the stock can then be accurately rounded from there (on larger rounds, say over 10 or 12 inches, the stock is often '16-sided' after being 8-sided, but the concept is the same, though not the proportions).
> 
> In use, the tool is employed exactly as for centering long stock, but the two outermost pencil holes are used in lieu of the center hole. And, no matter the length, or taper, the marks will provide the lines to plane to for the full length of the stock except for the last few inches at the end. Simple as that.
> 
> Now, as to how this is laid out, here's how it is done. First, the stock is squared, obviously. Then, at any point along the length of the stock a square is constructed on the side of the stock, the same as the cross section of the stock at that point (or on a bit of scrap on the bench if you prefer). This is next bisected by diagonals to find the centers, and a circle is drawn to fit inside the square of the stock.
> 
> Next, tangents are draw at 45 degrees to the edge, where the diagonals bisect the circle. The point where this tangent intersects the edge of the circle marks the point of intersection of one of the facets of the octagon enclosing the circle - and so on around the circle. The fact is you have only to find two of these points to be able to lay out your work, and here is where the Gee Whiz comes in. These two points are proportional to the width, no matter how wide, and that is why the Gee Whiz works for all tapers, the full length of the stock. By keeping the pins against the sides of the square, you keep the same proportion anywhere along the length - not exactly precise at very steep angles, but generally close enough for 'government work' as they say. This is done on all sides of the stock, providing all the meeting points of all eight facets. @
> 
> I have included a graphic below which demonstrates the laying out of the points, and which should be easier to understand:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laying out 8-sides using graphical method
> 
> Further, since these proportions are always the same, you can use a ruler to do the same thing, albeit not quite as conveniently. A two-foot folding rule is particularly well suited for this, and to watch an old-timer laying out the facets for 8-siding a mast with his folding rule was like watching magic! Here is how that works:
> 
> A two-foot rule (or measurement) is laid out across the stock, so that each end touches an edge. *Marks are made at the 7" point, and the 17" point*. This is done down the length of the stock at convenient points, and then all the marks are connected with a straight edge or batten. Simple as that! (see sketch below)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laying out 8-sides with two-foot rule
> 
> And, any multiples with the same proportions work just as well, for example, a *12" measurement, marked at the 3-1/2"points and 8-1/2" points! *Who'd a-thunk it?
> 
> @ And, as my old daddy used to say, "Then, you plane off everything that doesn't look like a mast!"


I really enjoy this serie about tips and tricks.

Some studies would support the idea that the shape of Greek columns is to provide resistance to buckling.

see at the end of this paper :
http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~pt2/SV22171.pdf
see "engineering hypothesis" on the 11th page.


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them! (Part Two)*
> 
> Here's a little esoteric 'how-to' for those times you can not buy the 'round' you need in the size or material you want. This is a basic spar or mast builder's technique which works for making things round and long.
> 
> Almost all wooden masts have traditionally been built with a changing taper, diminishing towards the top. In ancient Grecian and Roman times, many of their architectural columns in their buildings were gracefully tapered from base to capital, and in fact often, the tapers began at the base in a particular diameter, then the diameter increased slightly for a distance before beginning a graceful, curving decrease in diameter towards the top. Some opinions say these changing curves are based on the human figure, and in particular on the female figure - the lovely taper in a woman's legs in the eyes of a man for example. For whatever reason, the idea of long, graceful tapering columns has carried over for millenia into more recent times in mast and spar building, and many other things too. Tapers also just so happen to be very well suited for making long things like masts smaller (lighter) towards the top, with weight being a penalty against stability the higher it is carried. You even see this in many aluminum light poles along the highways today.
> 
> Mast and spar builders over time developed techniques for both rounding something from a square piece of stock, and tapering it towards the end. And, that's where the two extra holes come in in the little Gee Whiz multi-tool presented in part one of "Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them!" (http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33315)
> 
> The extra two holes on the Gee Whiz are for laying out the facets on square stock to plane to in order to make the piece octagonal, or '8-sided'. Once planed to eight-sided, the stock can then be accurately rounded from there (on larger rounds, say over 10 or 12 inches, the stock is often '16-sided' after being 8-sided, but the concept is the same, though not the proportions).
> 
> In use, the tool is employed exactly as for centering long stock, but the two outermost pencil holes are used in lieu of the center hole. And, no matter the length, or taper, the marks will provide the lines to plane to for the full length of the stock except for the last few inches at the end. Simple as that.
> 
> Now, as to how this is laid out, here's how it is done. First, the stock is squared, obviously. Then, at any point along the length of the stock a square is constructed on the side of the stock, the same as the cross section of the stock at that point (or on a bit of scrap on the bench if you prefer). This is next bisected by diagonals to find the centers, and a circle is drawn to fit inside the square of the stock.
> 
> Next, tangents are draw at 45 degrees to the edge, where the diagonals bisect the circle. The point where this tangent intersects the edge of the circle marks the point of intersection of one of the facets of the octagon enclosing the circle - and so on around the circle. The fact is you have only to find two of these points to be able to lay out your work, and here is where the Gee Whiz comes in. These two points are proportional to the width, no matter how wide, and that is why the Gee Whiz works for all tapers, the full length of the stock. By keeping the pins against the sides of the square, you keep the same proportion anywhere along the length - not exactly precise at very steep angles, but generally close enough for 'government work' as they say. This is done on all sides of the stock, providing all the meeting points of all eight facets. @
> 
> I have included a graphic below which demonstrates the laying out of the points, and which should be easier to understand:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laying out 8-sides using graphical method
> 
> Further, since these proportions are always the same, you can use a ruler to do the same thing, albeit not quite as conveniently. A two-foot folding rule is particularly well suited for this, and to watch an old-timer laying out the facets for 8-siding a mast with his folding rule was like watching magic! Here is how that works:
> 
> A two-foot rule (or measurement) is laid out across the stock, so that each end touches an edge. *Marks are made at the 7" point, and the 17" point*. This is done down the length of the stock at convenient points, and then all the marks are connected with a straight edge or batten. Simple as that! (see sketch below)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laying out 8-sides with two-foot rule
> 
> And, any multiples with the same proportions work just as well, for example, a *12" measurement, marked at the 3-1/2"points and 8-1/2" points! *Who'd a-thunk it?
> 
> @ And, as my old daddy used to say, "Then, you plane off everything that doesn't look like a mast!"


Hi Sylvain -

While you may be correct on the buckling idea, I still like the more romantic notion they are tapered to achieve 'perfection' to the eye. And, most studies seem to agree on that point. Here's some information on that: http://suite101.com/article/the-perfect-imperfections-of-the-parthenon-a347599

The eye is apparently easily fooled into thinking something is different than it actually is. A good example of this is the common naval architecture practice of changing the rake (lean) of each of the masts in a two-masted vessel. They usually are designed to 'splay' or lean apart at the top as much as 5 degrees, so the eye conceives them as parallel, which is the designer's intention. Otherwise, due to effects of perspective, they can look as though they are converging.

Understand my experience has mostly to do with boats, but another good example of this notion concerns what is called the 'hood ends' of the boat. As viewed in a profile on the drawing board, the sheer line (the visual line of the deck or top rail) may look perfect, but if the boat is built to what looks good on paper, because of the three-dimensional aspect of boats, the very end at the bow where all three dimensions converge, (and sometimes the stern too) can look 'hooded off' as boat people describe it. In layman's terms it will look downright droopy. To combat this empirically learned fact, most designers deliberately raise the very ends of the sheer line on their plans by as much as 2 or 3 inches in a 50 footer for example. When built to that line, the sheer then looks visually perfect in three dimensions.

Every trade has its subtleties!


----------



## shipwright

GnarlyErik said:


> *Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them! (Part Two)*
> 
> Here's a little esoteric 'how-to' for those times you can not buy the 'round' you need in the size or material you want. This is a basic spar or mast builder's technique which works for making things round and long.
> 
> Almost all wooden masts have traditionally been built with a changing taper, diminishing towards the top. In ancient Grecian and Roman times, many of their architectural columns in their buildings were gracefully tapered from base to capital, and in fact often, the tapers began at the base in a particular diameter, then the diameter increased slightly for a distance before beginning a graceful, curving decrease in diameter towards the top. Some opinions say these changing curves are based on the human figure, and in particular on the female figure - the lovely taper in a woman's legs in the eyes of a man for example. For whatever reason, the idea of long, graceful tapering columns has carried over for millenia into more recent times in mast and spar building, and many other things too. Tapers also just so happen to be very well suited for making long things like masts smaller (lighter) towards the top, with weight being a penalty against stability the higher it is carried. You even see this in many aluminum light poles along the highways today.
> 
> Mast and spar builders over time developed techniques for both rounding something from a square piece of stock, and tapering it towards the end. And, that's where the two extra holes come in in the little Gee Whiz multi-tool presented in part one of "Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using Them!" (http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33315)
> 
> The extra two holes on the Gee Whiz are for laying out the facets on square stock to plane to in order to make the piece octagonal, or '8-sided'. Once planed to eight-sided, the stock can then be accurately rounded from there (on larger rounds, say over 10 or 12 inches, the stock is often '16-sided' after being 8-sided, but the concept is the same, though not the proportions).
> 
> In use, the tool is employed exactly as for centering long stock, but the two outermost pencil holes are used in lieu of the center hole. And, no matter the length, or taper, the marks will provide the lines to plane to for the full length of the stock except for the last few inches at the end. Simple as that.
> 
> Now, as to how this is laid out, here's how it is done. First, the stock is squared, obviously. Then, at any point along the length of the stock a square is constructed on the side of the stock, the same as the cross section of the stock at that point (or on a bit of scrap on the bench if you prefer). This is next bisected by diagonals to find the centers, and a circle is drawn to fit inside the square of the stock.
> 
> Next, tangents are draw at 45 degrees to the edge, where the diagonals bisect the circle. The point where this tangent intersects the edge of the circle marks the point of intersection of one of the facets of the octagon enclosing the circle - and so on around the circle. The fact is you have only to find two of these points to be able to lay out your work, and here is where the Gee Whiz comes in. These two points are proportional to the width, no matter how wide, and that is why the Gee Whiz works for all tapers, the full length of the stock. By keeping the pins against the sides of the square, you keep the same proportion anywhere along the length - not exactly precise at very steep angles, but generally close enough for 'government work' as they say. This is done on all sides of the stock, providing all the meeting points of all eight facets. @
> 
> I have included a graphic below which demonstrates the laying out of the points, and which should be easier to understand:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laying out 8-sides using graphical method
> 
> Further, since these proportions are always the same, you can use a ruler to do the same thing, albeit not quite as conveniently. A two-foot folding rule is particularly well suited for this, and to watch an old-timer laying out the facets for 8-siding a mast with his folding rule was like watching magic! Here is how that works:
> 
> A two-foot rule (or measurement) is laid out across the stock, so that each end touches an edge. *Marks are made at the 7" point, and the 17" point*. This is done down the length of the stock at convenient points, and then all the marks are connected with a straight edge or batten. Simple as that! (see sketch below)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laying out 8-sides with two-foot rule
> 
> And, any multiples with the same proportions work just as well, for example, a *12" measurement, marked at the 3-1/2"points and 8-1/2" points! *Who'd a-thunk it?
> 
> @ And, as my old daddy used to say, "Then, you plane off everything that doesn't look like a mast!"


Two more illusions:
1) Curves must become more pronounced as they get higher above the waterline or they will appear flat. 
This applies to the progression… waterline, boot-top, rubstrake line, sheer and to the cambers in deck, cabin-top, hatch cover, etc.
2) Cabin sides must lean in or they will appear to lean out.

The eye is a funny thing.


----------



## GnarlyErik

*Measuring Things - Rulers Versus Tapes*

*"MORE THAN YOU EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT SIX-FOOT FOLDING RULES!"*

Most people today use a flexible metal tape for measurement, except for some old-timers. There are reasons for this besides stubborn intransigence - although that surely plays a part. First, most set-in-their-ways people like me suspect metal things are more affected by temperature than wooden things, which is correct. Steel thermally expands or contracts roughly three times as much as the wood in a ruler. For example, a six foot length of steel tape will expand or contract about 19/1000" with a 40 degree F temp change, and the change with wood is only 6/1000". Since that is less than a 1/64" difference, in practical terms, it makes no difference. Maybe in rocket science, but not in woodworking.

Another reason? Well, by golly, we JUST DON'T LIKE those flimsy, fluttery, noisy darned things, that's what! Face it, we DO stick with the things we are used to and like. And, that isn't anything new either, I recall as a young person in the boat shop, the old guys back then sneered at my shiny, new six foot folding rule, clinging stubbornly to their gnarly old two foot versions! And don't even dare bring a steel tape into the shop! Ah well, times change, and so does everything around us.

And, just for the record, I have a two foot folding rule too, because there are a few interesting things you can do with those you can't do with anything else so conveniently, if at all. More about that perhaps later in another post.

I have seen many an old-timer flick out their two foot rule in one motion, and have the saw set and in action before I got my six-footer out of my pocket. And, I'll bet you, man for man, I can do the same thing these days against the young guy with his noxious steel tape clipped to his belt. And just try shoving a bit of scrap out of the way on the other side of the bench with your wimpy tape! The fact is, we work best with the things we like and are familiar with. To me, there is very little warmth and friendliness in a sterile piece of metal compared to my friendly boxwood rule, with its nicks, patina, splatters, easy and familiar action, and even its smell - but then, that's just me, and trust me, don't try that kind of comparison with your wife, husband or significant other!

I've had a a couple of favorites now for close on to forty years if not longer. I've broken several over the years of course - rulers, not wives! And, I keep a spare or two around, because if you can't measure in a woodworking shop, you are shut down until you can. This brings me to my first point. A year ago I went off with my brother for a day to look at a boat for him. When he left, he drove off with one of my much-loved rulers in his car by accident - my fault. When I missed it, I called him - I said I loved it, didn't I? By that time, he had flown 5000 miles away and could not send it back. I told him not to bother, I'd just get another one - although the one I lost was so well seasoned and easy to use - I could flick it out and have it fully extended in about half a second, and I really hated to lose it. One thing about folding rulers is the more you use them the easier they operate, especially if the joints are kept oiled periodically. Eventually though, they can get too 'easy' and become sloppy - but just try getting a steel tape to hold up for forty years!

Problem was, no local supplier had the ruler model I had and preferred - a 'Master Mechanic' Inside Reading six foot folding ruler made of boxwood. Not the local hardware, not Lowe's, not Home Depot, no one! After a little research, I found the manufacturer no longer makes this model in boxwood. In plastic yes, but not for me - I'll pass on plastic, thank you. Besides, I strongly suspect those are made offshore now.

Then I got lucky, I thought. Lufkin still makes a boxwood model which looked exactly the same as mine in the pictures online - their model #066F. I ordered one and it came 'Made in the USA' right on the side. But it wasn't the same at all. Sure, inside reading, and all that, but it was different - thicker, bulky, heavier, klutzier. I practically hate it in fact, but kept it since it is the only spare I have now. Meanwhile, my brother has inherited my old rule and since he seems to like it, I don't have the heart to ask for it back. But, if I go visit him, I will take the new one and swap them out surreptitiously - he'll never notice the difference, will he?

Here is a picture of the old Master Mechanic versus the new Lufkin.










Now to my second point - why "Inside Reading"? Just in case you are not familiar with the difference in styles, inside reading means when you fold out part of your rule and lay it flat on your stock with the unfolded joints up towards you, you look at the numbers naturally reading from left to right, from low to high numbers. 
This is called 'English Measure'. The ruler lays nice and flat against your work, as you work from left to right, which seems right to me. See below:










The more common type - called 'American Measure' is reversed - the low numbers are on the outside, so you must use it from right to left. If you try to use the rule from left to right, the unfolded joints are underneath, and you can't lay the rule flat on your work - it either must hang off the edge of your work - which is not convenient if you are working inside a large piece of stock like ply, or you are forced to read the numbers from high to low, or, you must unfold the full length of the ruler and flip it over for it to lay flat - then the numbers are upside down! For the life of me, I still can't figure why that style is dominant - and the only one available most places now. Have you noticed how hard it is to find really high quality hand tools now?

You will notice in the picture below there are small holes drilled around the one inch mark in my rules. That serves two purposes; one is to hold the end in place with a nail when I am marking off multiple smaller increments without fear of shifting, and the other is I can use my rule to swing an arc of up to a 71" radius on occasion:










The are things I do like about steel tapes, one being the little thingy on the end to clip on the edge of something to hold the end - but those are the first things to go too. And of course you can have steel tapes in almost any length is you don't mind the weight. Don't tell anybody, but I do have a couple lying around. Another thing to keep in mind about your favorite rulers - or tapes - if you love them, don't ever, ever loan them or let anyone use them, anytime, no time, ever, and most especially children, who are drawn to them like magnets!

The last time one of my grandchildren took a shine to my ruler, I went out and bought a brand new one just for him - American Measure of course since it was all I could find.


----------



## davidmicraig

GnarlyErik said:


> *Measuring Things - Rulers Versus Tapes*
> 
> *"MORE THAN YOU EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT SIX-FOOT FOLDING RULES!"*
> 
> Most people today use a flexible metal tape for measurement, except for some old-timers. There are reasons for this besides stubborn intransigence - although that surely plays a part. First, most set-in-their-ways people like me suspect metal things are more affected by temperature than wooden things, which is correct. Steel thermally expands or contracts roughly three times as much as the wood in a ruler. For example, a six foot length of steel tape will expand or contract about 19/1000" with a 40 degree F temp change, and the change with wood is only 6/1000". Since that is less than a 1/64" difference, in practical terms, it makes no difference. Maybe in rocket science, but not in woodworking.
> 
> Another reason? Well, by golly, we JUST DON'T LIKE those flimsy, fluttery, noisy darned things, that's what! Face it, we DO stick with the things we are used to and like. And, that isn't anything new either, I recall as a young person in the boat shop, the old guys back then sneered at my shiny, new six foot folding rule, clinging stubbornly to their gnarly old two foot versions! And don't even dare bring a steel tape into the shop! Ah well, times change, and so does everything around us.
> 
> And, just for the record, I have a two foot folding rule too, because there are a few interesting things you can do with those you can't do with anything else so conveniently, if at all. More about that perhaps later in another post.
> 
> I have seen many an old-timer flick out their two foot rule in one motion, and have the saw set and in action before I got my six-footer out of my pocket. And, I'll bet you, man for man, I can do the same thing these days against the young guy with his noxious steel tape clipped to his belt. And just try shoving a bit of scrap out of the way on the other side of the bench with your wimpy tape! The fact is, we work best with the things we like and are familiar with. To me, there is very little warmth and friendliness in a sterile piece of metal compared to my friendly boxwood rule, with its nicks, patina, splatters, easy and familiar action, and even its smell - but then, that's just me, and trust me, don't try that kind of comparison with your wife, husband or significant other!
> 
> I've had a a couple of favorites now for close on to forty years if not longer. I've broken several over the years of course - rulers, not wives! And, I keep a spare or two around, because if you can't measure in a woodworking shop, you are shut down until you can. This brings me to my first point. A year ago I went off with my brother for a day to look at a boat for him. When he left, he drove off with one of my much-loved rulers in his car by accident - my fault. When I missed it, I called him - I said I loved it, didn't I? By that time, he had flown 5000 miles away and could not send it back. I told him not to bother, I'd just get another one - although the one I lost was so well seasoned and easy to use - I could flick it out and have it fully extended in about half a second, and I really hated to lose it. One thing about folding rulers is the more you use them the easier they operate, especially if the joints are kept oiled periodically. Eventually though, they can get too 'easy' and become sloppy - but just try getting a steel tape to hold up for forty years!
> 
> Problem was, no local supplier had the ruler model I had and preferred - a 'Master Mechanic' Inside Reading six foot folding ruler made of boxwood. Not the local hardware, not Lowe's, not Home Depot, no one! After a little research, I found the manufacturer no longer makes this model in boxwood. In plastic yes, but not for me - I'll pass on plastic, thank you. Besides, I strongly suspect those are made offshore now.
> 
> Then I got lucky, I thought. Lufkin still makes a boxwood model which looked exactly the same as mine in the pictures online - their model #066F. I ordered one and it came 'Made in the USA' right on the side. But it wasn't the same at all. Sure, inside reading, and all that, but it was different - thicker, bulky, heavier, klutzier. I practically hate it in fact, but kept it since it is the only spare I have now. Meanwhile, my brother has inherited my old rule and since he seems to like it, I don't have the heart to ask for it back. But, if I go visit him, I will take the new one and swap them out surreptitiously - he'll never notice the difference, will he?
> 
> Here is a picture of the old Master Mechanic versus the new Lufkin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now to my second point - why "Inside Reading"? Just in case you are not familiar with the difference in styles, inside reading means when you fold out part of your rule and lay it flat on your stock with the unfolded joints up towards you, you look at the numbers naturally reading from left to right, from low to high numbers.
> This is called 'English Measure'. The ruler lays nice and flat against your work, as you work from left to right, which seems right to me. See below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The more common type - called 'American Measure' is reversed - the low numbers are on the outside, so you must use it from right to left. If you try to use the rule from left to right, the unfolded joints are underneath, and you can't lay the rule flat on your work - it either must hang off the edge of your work - which is not convenient if you are working inside a large piece of stock like ply, or you are forced to read the numbers from high to low, or, you must unfold the full length of the ruler and flip it over for it to lay flat - then the numbers are upside down! For the life of me, I still can't figure why that style is dominant - and the only one available most places now. Have you noticed how hard it is to find really high quality hand tools now?
> 
> You will notice in the picture below there are small holes drilled around the one inch mark in my rules. That serves two purposes; one is to hold the end in place with a nail when I am marking off multiple smaller increments without fear of shifting, and the other is I can use my rule to swing an arc of up to a 71" radius on occasion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The are things I do like about steel tapes, one being the little thingy on the end to clip on the edge of something to hold the end - but those are the first things to go too. And of course you can have steel tapes in almost any length is you don't mind the weight. Don't tell anybody, but I do have a couple lying around. Another thing to keep in mind about your favorite rulers - or tapes - if you love them, don't ever, ever loan them or let anyone use them, anytime, no time, ever, and most especially children, who are drawn to them like magnets!
> 
> The last time one of my grandchildren took a shine to my ruler, I went out and bought a brand new one just for him - American Measure of course since it was all I could find.


Thanks for this article. That is one thing I never understood and was driving me crazy about wooden rules, was the way the numbering system worked. I could never understand how anyone would find them useful. I now know there is a type to look for.

Thanks for sharing,

David


----------



## DIYaholic

GnarlyErik said:


> *Measuring Things - Rulers Versus Tapes*
> 
> *"MORE THAN YOU EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT SIX-FOOT FOLDING RULES!"*
> 
> Most people today use a flexible metal tape for measurement, except for some old-timers. There are reasons for this besides stubborn intransigence - although that surely plays a part. First, most set-in-their-ways people like me suspect metal things are more affected by temperature than wooden things, which is correct. Steel thermally expands or contracts roughly three times as much as the wood in a ruler. For example, a six foot length of steel tape will expand or contract about 19/1000" with a 40 degree F temp change, and the change with wood is only 6/1000". Since that is less than a 1/64" difference, in practical terms, it makes no difference. Maybe in rocket science, but not in woodworking.
> 
> Another reason? Well, by golly, we JUST DON'T LIKE those flimsy, fluttery, noisy darned things, that's what! Face it, we DO stick with the things we are used to and like. And, that isn't anything new either, I recall as a young person in the boat shop, the old guys back then sneered at my shiny, new six foot folding rule, clinging stubbornly to their gnarly old two foot versions! And don't even dare bring a steel tape into the shop! Ah well, times change, and so does everything around us.
> 
> And, just for the record, I have a two foot folding rule too, because there are a few interesting things you can do with those you can't do with anything else so conveniently, if at all. More about that perhaps later in another post.
> 
> I have seen many an old-timer flick out their two foot rule in one motion, and have the saw set and in action before I got my six-footer out of my pocket. And, I'll bet you, man for man, I can do the same thing these days against the young guy with his noxious steel tape clipped to his belt. And just try shoving a bit of scrap out of the way on the other side of the bench with your wimpy tape! The fact is, we work best with the things we like and are familiar with. To me, there is very little warmth and friendliness in a sterile piece of metal compared to my friendly boxwood rule, with its nicks, patina, splatters, easy and familiar action, and even its smell - but then, that's just me, and trust me, don't try that kind of comparison with your wife, husband or significant other!
> 
> I've had a a couple of favorites now for close on to forty years if not longer. I've broken several over the years of course - rulers, not wives! And, I keep a spare or two around, because if you can't measure in a woodworking shop, you are shut down until you can. This brings me to my first point. A year ago I went off with my brother for a day to look at a boat for him. When he left, he drove off with one of my much-loved rulers in his car by accident - my fault. When I missed it, I called him - I said I loved it, didn't I? By that time, he had flown 5000 miles away and could not send it back. I told him not to bother, I'd just get another one - although the one I lost was so well seasoned and easy to use - I could flick it out and have it fully extended in about half a second, and I really hated to lose it. One thing about folding rulers is the more you use them the easier they operate, especially if the joints are kept oiled periodically. Eventually though, they can get too 'easy' and become sloppy - but just try getting a steel tape to hold up for forty years!
> 
> Problem was, no local supplier had the ruler model I had and preferred - a 'Master Mechanic' Inside Reading six foot folding ruler made of boxwood. Not the local hardware, not Lowe's, not Home Depot, no one! After a little research, I found the manufacturer no longer makes this model in boxwood. In plastic yes, but not for me - I'll pass on plastic, thank you. Besides, I strongly suspect those are made offshore now.
> 
> Then I got lucky, I thought. Lufkin still makes a boxwood model which looked exactly the same as mine in the pictures online - their model #066F. I ordered one and it came 'Made in the USA' right on the side. But it wasn't the same at all. Sure, inside reading, and all that, but it was different - thicker, bulky, heavier, klutzier. I practically hate it in fact, but kept it since it is the only spare I have now. Meanwhile, my brother has inherited my old rule and since he seems to like it, I don't have the heart to ask for it back. But, if I go visit him, I will take the new one and swap them out surreptitiously - he'll never notice the difference, will he?
> 
> Here is a picture of the old Master Mechanic versus the new Lufkin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now to my second point - why "Inside Reading"? Just in case you are not familiar with the difference in styles, inside reading means when you fold out part of your rule and lay it flat on your stock with the unfolded joints up towards you, you look at the numbers naturally reading from left to right, from low to high numbers.
> This is called 'English Measure'. The ruler lays nice and flat against your work, as you work from left to right, which seems right to me. See below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The more common type - called 'American Measure' is reversed - the low numbers are on the outside, so you must use it from right to left. If you try to use the rule from left to right, the unfolded joints are underneath, and you can't lay the rule flat on your work - it either must hang off the edge of your work - which is not convenient if you are working inside a large piece of stock like ply, or you are forced to read the numbers from high to low, or, you must unfold the full length of the ruler and flip it over for it to lay flat - then the numbers are upside down! For the life of me, I still can't figure why that style is dominant - and the only one available most places now. Have you noticed how hard it is to find really high quality hand tools now?
> 
> You will notice in the picture below there are small holes drilled around the one inch mark in my rules. That serves two purposes; one is to hold the end in place with a nail when I am marking off multiple smaller increments without fear of shifting, and the other is I can use my rule to swing an arc of up to a 71" radius on occasion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The are things I do like about steel tapes, one being the little thingy on the end to clip on the edge of something to hold the end - but those are the first things to go too. And of course you can have steel tapes in almost any length is you don't mind the weight. Don't tell anybody, but I do have a couple lying around. Another thing to keep in mind about your favorite rulers - or tapes - if you love them, don't ever, ever loan them or let anyone use them, anytime, no time, ever, and most especially children, who are drawn to them like magnets!
> 
> The last time one of my grandchildren took a shine to my ruler, I went out and bought a brand new one just for him - American Measure of course since it was all I could find.


That was a good read. I even learned something!!! Thanks for taking the time to explain!


----------



## shipwright

GnarlyErik said:


> *Measuring Things - Rulers Versus Tapes*
> 
> *"MORE THAN YOU EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT SIX-FOOT FOLDING RULES!"*
> 
> Most people today use a flexible metal tape for measurement, except for some old-timers. There are reasons for this besides stubborn intransigence - although that surely plays a part. First, most set-in-their-ways people like me suspect metal things are more affected by temperature than wooden things, which is correct. Steel thermally expands or contracts roughly three times as much as the wood in a ruler. For example, a six foot length of steel tape will expand or contract about 19/1000" with a 40 degree F temp change, and the change with wood is only 6/1000". Since that is less than a 1/64" difference, in practical terms, it makes no difference. Maybe in rocket science, but not in woodworking.
> 
> Another reason? Well, by golly, we JUST DON'T LIKE those flimsy, fluttery, noisy darned things, that's what! Face it, we DO stick with the things we are used to and like. And, that isn't anything new either, I recall as a young person in the boat shop, the old guys back then sneered at my shiny, new six foot folding rule, clinging stubbornly to their gnarly old two foot versions! And don't even dare bring a steel tape into the shop! Ah well, times change, and so does everything around us.
> 
> And, just for the record, I have a two foot folding rule too, because there are a few interesting things you can do with those you can't do with anything else so conveniently, if at all. More about that perhaps later in another post.
> 
> I have seen many an old-timer flick out their two foot rule in one motion, and have the saw set and in action before I got my six-footer out of my pocket. And, I'll bet you, man for man, I can do the same thing these days against the young guy with his noxious steel tape clipped to his belt. And just try shoving a bit of scrap out of the way on the other side of the bench with your wimpy tape! The fact is, we work best with the things we like and are familiar with. To me, there is very little warmth and friendliness in a sterile piece of metal compared to my friendly boxwood rule, with its nicks, patina, splatters, easy and familiar action, and even its smell - but then, that's just me, and trust me, don't try that kind of comparison with your wife, husband or significant other!
> 
> I've had a a couple of favorites now for close on to forty years if not longer. I've broken several over the years of course - rulers, not wives! And, I keep a spare or two around, because if you can't measure in a woodworking shop, you are shut down until you can. This brings me to my first point. A year ago I went off with my brother for a day to look at a boat for him. When he left, he drove off with one of my much-loved rulers in his car by accident - my fault. When I missed it, I called him - I said I loved it, didn't I? By that time, he had flown 5000 miles away and could not send it back. I told him not to bother, I'd just get another one - although the one I lost was so well seasoned and easy to use - I could flick it out and have it fully extended in about half a second, and I really hated to lose it. One thing about folding rulers is the more you use them the easier they operate, especially if the joints are kept oiled periodically. Eventually though, they can get too 'easy' and become sloppy - but just try getting a steel tape to hold up for forty years!
> 
> Problem was, no local supplier had the ruler model I had and preferred - a 'Master Mechanic' Inside Reading six foot folding ruler made of boxwood. Not the local hardware, not Lowe's, not Home Depot, no one! After a little research, I found the manufacturer no longer makes this model in boxwood. In plastic yes, but not for me - I'll pass on plastic, thank you. Besides, I strongly suspect those are made offshore now.
> 
> Then I got lucky, I thought. Lufkin still makes a boxwood model which looked exactly the same as mine in the pictures online - their model #066F. I ordered one and it came 'Made in the USA' right on the side. But it wasn't the same at all. Sure, inside reading, and all that, but it was different - thicker, bulky, heavier, klutzier. I practically hate it in fact, but kept it since it is the only spare I have now. Meanwhile, my brother has inherited my old rule and since he seems to like it, I don't have the heart to ask for it back. But, if I go visit him, I will take the new one and swap them out surreptitiously - he'll never notice the difference, will he?
> 
> Here is a picture of the old Master Mechanic versus the new Lufkin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now to my second point - why "Inside Reading"? Just in case you are not familiar with the difference in styles, inside reading means when you fold out part of your rule and lay it flat on your stock with the unfolded joints up towards you, you look at the numbers naturally reading from left to right, from low to high numbers.
> This is called 'English Measure'. The ruler lays nice and flat against your work, as you work from left to right, which seems right to me. See below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The more common type - called 'American Measure' is reversed - the low numbers are on the outside, so you must use it from right to left. If you try to use the rule from left to right, the unfolded joints are underneath, and you can't lay the rule flat on your work - it either must hang off the edge of your work - which is not convenient if you are working inside a large piece of stock like ply, or you are forced to read the numbers from high to low, or, you must unfold the full length of the ruler and flip it over for it to lay flat - then the numbers are upside down! For the life of me, I still can't figure why that style is dominant - and the only one available most places now. Have you noticed how hard it is to find really high quality hand tools now?
> 
> You will notice in the picture below there are small holes drilled around the one inch mark in my rules. That serves two purposes; one is to hold the end in place with a nail when I am marking off multiple smaller increments without fear of shifting, and the other is I can use my rule to swing an arc of up to a 71" radius on occasion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The are things I do like about steel tapes, one being the little thingy on the end to clip on the edge of something to hold the end - but those are the first things to go too. And of course you can have steel tapes in almost any length is you don't mind the weight. Don't tell anybody, but I do have a couple lying around. Another thing to keep in mind about your favorite rulers - or tapes - if you love them, don't ever, ever loan them or let anyone use them, anytime, no time, ever, and most especially children, who are drawn to them like magnets!
> 
> The last time one of my grandchildren took a shine to my ruler, I went out and bought a brand new one just for him - American Measure of course since it was all I could find.


When I started all the old guys had the two footers and used them constantly. Unfortunately, the shop needed to replace the planker who had left to go seining with a brother and I was elected. Before I really caught the folding rule bug I was more in need of a small 25' steel tape.
The treasured measurer of my early days was a small, light, very well made 25' tape. I loved that thing and never found another after it broke. (nothing like forty years, more like forty weeks).
I still wish I had taken to the folding rule because I just think they look and feel right…. but alas, I needed length of a steel tape and never did. My loss.
Thanks again for another great blog and good memories Eric.
I wish we could sit down and have a chat.


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Measuring Things - Rulers Versus Tapes*
> 
> *"MORE THAN YOU EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT SIX-FOOT FOLDING RULES!"*
> 
> Most people today use a flexible metal tape for measurement, except for some old-timers. There are reasons for this besides stubborn intransigence - although that surely plays a part. First, most set-in-their-ways people like me suspect metal things are more affected by temperature than wooden things, which is correct. Steel thermally expands or contracts roughly three times as much as the wood in a ruler. For example, a six foot length of steel tape will expand or contract about 19/1000" with a 40 degree F temp change, and the change with wood is only 6/1000". Since that is less than a 1/64" difference, in practical terms, it makes no difference. Maybe in rocket science, but not in woodworking.
> 
> Another reason? Well, by golly, we JUST DON'T LIKE those flimsy, fluttery, noisy darned things, that's what! Face it, we DO stick with the things we are used to and like. And, that isn't anything new either, I recall as a young person in the boat shop, the old guys back then sneered at my shiny, new six foot folding rule, clinging stubbornly to their gnarly old two foot versions! And don't even dare bring a steel tape into the shop! Ah well, times change, and so does everything around us.
> 
> And, just for the record, I have a two foot folding rule too, because there are a few interesting things you can do with those you can't do with anything else so conveniently, if at all. More about that perhaps later in another post.
> 
> I have seen many an old-timer flick out their two foot rule in one motion, and have the saw set and in action before I got my six-footer out of my pocket. And, I'll bet you, man for man, I can do the same thing these days against the young guy with his noxious steel tape clipped to his belt. And just try shoving a bit of scrap out of the way on the other side of the bench with your wimpy tape! The fact is, we work best with the things we like and are familiar with. To me, there is very little warmth and friendliness in a sterile piece of metal compared to my friendly boxwood rule, with its nicks, patina, splatters, easy and familiar action, and even its smell - but then, that's just me, and trust me, don't try that kind of comparison with your wife, husband or significant other!
> 
> I've had a a couple of favorites now for close on to forty years if not longer. I've broken several over the years of course - rulers, not wives! And, I keep a spare or two around, because if you can't measure in a woodworking shop, you are shut down until you can. This brings me to my first point. A year ago I went off with my brother for a day to look at a boat for him. When he left, he drove off with one of my much-loved rulers in his car by accident - my fault. When I missed it, I called him - I said I loved it, didn't I? By that time, he had flown 5000 miles away and could not send it back. I told him not to bother, I'd just get another one - although the one I lost was so well seasoned and easy to use - I could flick it out and have it fully extended in about half a second, and I really hated to lose it. One thing about folding rulers is the more you use them the easier they operate, especially if the joints are kept oiled periodically. Eventually though, they can get too 'easy' and become sloppy - but just try getting a steel tape to hold up for forty years!
> 
> Problem was, no local supplier had the ruler model I had and preferred - a 'Master Mechanic' Inside Reading six foot folding ruler made of boxwood. Not the local hardware, not Lowe's, not Home Depot, no one! After a little research, I found the manufacturer no longer makes this model in boxwood. In plastic yes, but not for me - I'll pass on plastic, thank you. Besides, I strongly suspect those are made offshore now.
> 
> Then I got lucky, I thought. Lufkin still makes a boxwood model which looked exactly the same as mine in the pictures online - their model #066F. I ordered one and it came 'Made in the USA' right on the side. But it wasn't the same at all. Sure, inside reading, and all that, but it was different - thicker, bulky, heavier, klutzier. I practically hate it in fact, but kept it since it is the only spare I have now. Meanwhile, my brother has inherited my old rule and since he seems to like it, I don't have the heart to ask for it back. But, if I go visit him, I will take the new one and swap them out surreptitiously - he'll never notice the difference, will he?
> 
> Here is a picture of the old Master Mechanic versus the new Lufkin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now to my second point - why "Inside Reading"? Just in case you are not familiar with the difference in styles, inside reading means when you fold out part of your rule and lay it flat on your stock with the unfolded joints up towards you, you look at the numbers naturally reading from left to right, from low to high numbers.
> This is called 'English Measure'. The ruler lays nice and flat against your work, as you work from left to right, which seems right to me. See below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The more common type - called 'American Measure' is reversed - the low numbers are on the outside, so you must use it from right to left. If you try to use the rule from left to right, the unfolded joints are underneath, and you can't lay the rule flat on your work - it either must hang off the edge of your work - which is not convenient if you are working inside a large piece of stock like ply, or you are forced to read the numbers from high to low, or, you must unfold the full length of the ruler and flip it over for it to lay flat - then the numbers are upside down! For the life of me, I still can't figure why that style is dominant - and the only one available most places now. Have you noticed how hard it is to find really high quality hand tools now?
> 
> You will notice in the picture below there are small holes drilled around the one inch mark in my rules. That serves two purposes; one is to hold the end in place with a nail when I am marking off multiple smaller increments without fear of shifting, and the other is I can use my rule to swing an arc of up to a 71" radius on occasion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The are things I do like about steel tapes, one being the little thingy on the end to clip on the edge of something to hold the end - but those are the first things to go too. And of course you can have steel tapes in almost any length is you don't mind the weight. Don't tell anybody, but I do have a couple lying around. Another thing to keep in mind about your favorite rulers - or tapes - if you love them, don't ever, ever loan them or let anyone use them, anytime, no time, ever, and most especially children, who are drawn to them like magnets!
> 
> The last time one of my grandchildren took a shine to my ruler, I went out and bought a brand new one just for him - American Measure of course since it was all I could find.


Truth be known Paul, even the old timers kept a 25' steel tape tucked away somewhere. There were just some things - longer measures generally - which they will do so much quicker. I've even hand them borrow one of mine at times.


----------



## HillbillyShooter

GnarlyErik said:


> *Measuring Things - Rulers Versus Tapes*
> 
> *"MORE THAN YOU EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT SIX-FOOT FOLDING RULES!"*
> 
> Most people today use a flexible metal tape for measurement, except for some old-timers. There are reasons for this besides stubborn intransigence - although that surely plays a part. First, most set-in-their-ways people like me suspect metal things are more affected by temperature than wooden things, which is correct. Steel thermally expands or contracts roughly three times as much as the wood in a ruler. For example, a six foot length of steel tape will expand or contract about 19/1000" with a 40 degree F temp change, and the change with wood is only 6/1000". Since that is less than a 1/64" difference, in practical terms, it makes no difference. Maybe in rocket science, but not in woodworking.
> 
> Another reason? Well, by golly, we JUST DON'T LIKE those flimsy, fluttery, noisy darned things, that's what! Face it, we DO stick with the things we are used to and like. And, that isn't anything new either, I recall as a young person in the boat shop, the old guys back then sneered at my shiny, new six foot folding rule, clinging stubbornly to their gnarly old two foot versions! And don't even dare bring a steel tape into the shop! Ah well, times change, and so does everything around us.
> 
> And, just for the record, I have a two foot folding rule too, because there are a few interesting things you can do with those you can't do with anything else so conveniently, if at all. More about that perhaps later in another post.
> 
> I have seen many an old-timer flick out their two foot rule in one motion, and have the saw set and in action before I got my six-footer out of my pocket. And, I'll bet you, man for man, I can do the same thing these days against the young guy with his noxious steel tape clipped to his belt. And just try shoving a bit of scrap out of the way on the other side of the bench with your wimpy tape! The fact is, we work best with the things we like and are familiar with. To me, there is very little warmth and friendliness in a sterile piece of metal compared to my friendly boxwood rule, with its nicks, patina, splatters, easy and familiar action, and even its smell - but then, that's just me, and trust me, don't try that kind of comparison with your wife, husband or significant other!
> 
> I've had a a couple of favorites now for close on to forty years if not longer. I've broken several over the years of course - rulers, not wives! And, I keep a spare or two around, because if you can't measure in a woodworking shop, you are shut down until you can. This brings me to my first point. A year ago I went off with my brother for a day to look at a boat for him. When he left, he drove off with one of my much-loved rulers in his car by accident - my fault. When I missed it, I called him - I said I loved it, didn't I? By that time, he had flown 5000 miles away and could not send it back. I told him not to bother, I'd just get another one - although the one I lost was so well seasoned and easy to use - I could flick it out and have it fully extended in about half a second, and I really hated to lose it. One thing about folding rulers is the more you use them the easier they operate, especially if the joints are kept oiled periodically. Eventually though, they can get too 'easy' and become sloppy - but just try getting a steel tape to hold up for forty years!
> 
> Problem was, no local supplier had the ruler model I had and preferred - a 'Master Mechanic' Inside Reading six foot folding ruler made of boxwood. Not the local hardware, not Lowe's, not Home Depot, no one! After a little research, I found the manufacturer no longer makes this model in boxwood. In plastic yes, but not for me - I'll pass on plastic, thank you. Besides, I strongly suspect those are made offshore now.
> 
> Then I got lucky, I thought. Lufkin still makes a boxwood model which looked exactly the same as mine in the pictures online - their model #066F. I ordered one and it came 'Made in the USA' right on the side. But it wasn't the same at all. Sure, inside reading, and all that, but it was different - thicker, bulky, heavier, klutzier. I practically hate it in fact, but kept it since it is the only spare I have now. Meanwhile, my brother has inherited my old rule and since he seems to like it, I don't have the heart to ask for it back. But, if I go visit him, I will take the new one and swap them out surreptitiously - he'll never notice the difference, will he?
> 
> Here is a picture of the old Master Mechanic versus the new Lufkin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now to my second point - why "Inside Reading"? Just in case you are not familiar with the difference in styles, inside reading means when you fold out part of your rule and lay it flat on your stock with the unfolded joints up towards you, you look at the numbers naturally reading from left to right, from low to high numbers.
> This is called 'English Measure'. The ruler lays nice and flat against your work, as you work from left to right, which seems right to me. See below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The more common type - called 'American Measure' is reversed - the low numbers are on the outside, so you must use it from right to left. If you try to use the rule from left to right, the unfolded joints are underneath, and you can't lay the rule flat on your work - it either must hang off the edge of your work - which is not convenient if you are working inside a large piece of stock like ply, or you are forced to read the numbers from high to low, or, you must unfold the full length of the ruler and flip it over for it to lay flat - then the numbers are upside down! For the life of me, I still can't figure why that style is dominant - and the only one available most places now. Have you noticed how hard it is to find really high quality hand tools now?
> 
> You will notice in the picture below there are small holes drilled around the one inch mark in my rules. That serves two purposes; one is to hold the end in place with a nail when I am marking off multiple smaller increments without fear of shifting, and the other is I can use my rule to swing an arc of up to a 71" radius on occasion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The are things I do like about steel tapes, one being the little thingy on the end to clip on the edge of something to hold the end - but those are the first things to go too. And of course you can have steel tapes in almost any length is you don't mind the weight. Don't tell anybody, but I do have a couple lying around. Another thing to keep in mind about your favorite rulers - or tapes - if you love them, don't ever, ever loan them or let anyone use them, anytime, no time, ever, and most especially children, who are drawn to them like magnets!
> 
> The last time one of my grandchildren took a shine to my ruler, I went out and bought a brand new one just for him - American Measure of course since it was all I could find.


Erik: As always, thank you for this post. The first thing I did after reading this post was to locate an old 6-footer I kept from my father's tools. It is so old, the markings are barely left and if it was ever painted or anything other than natural, all the paint is gone. I could not locate any manufacturer's name, but it had an interesting feature: a six inch brass inlay that slides in and out of the first section (or the last section if you look on the back of that section). Any instruction for this sliding brass inlay? John


----------



## lightweightladylefty

GnarlyErik said:


> *Measuring Things - Rulers Versus Tapes*
> 
> *"MORE THAN YOU EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT SIX-FOOT FOLDING RULES!"*
> 
> Most people today use a flexible metal tape for measurement, except for some old-timers. There are reasons for this besides stubborn intransigence - although that surely plays a part. First, most set-in-their-ways people like me suspect metal things are more affected by temperature than wooden things, which is correct. Steel thermally expands or contracts roughly three times as much as the wood in a ruler. For example, a six foot length of steel tape will expand or contract about 19/1000" with a 40 degree F temp change, and the change with wood is only 6/1000". Since that is less than a 1/64" difference, in practical terms, it makes no difference. Maybe in rocket science, but not in woodworking.
> 
> Another reason? Well, by golly, we JUST DON'T LIKE those flimsy, fluttery, noisy darned things, that's what! Face it, we DO stick with the things we are used to and like. And, that isn't anything new either, I recall as a young person in the boat shop, the old guys back then sneered at my shiny, new six foot folding rule, clinging stubbornly to their gnarly old two foot versions! And don't even dare bring a steel tape into the shop! Ah well, times change, and so does everything around us.
> 
> And, just for the record, I have a two foot folding rule too, because there are a few interesting things you can do with those you can't do with anything else so conveniently, if at all. More about that perhaps later in another post.
> 
> I have seen many an old-timer flick out their two foot rule in one motion, and have the saw set and in action before I got my six-footer out of my pocket. And, I'll bet you, man for man, I can do the same thing these days against the young guy with his noxious steel tape clipped to his belt. And just try shoving a bit of scrap out of the way on the other side of the bench with your wimpy tape! The fact is, we work best with the things we like and are familiar with. To me, there is very little warmth and friendliness in a sterile piece of metal compared to my friendly boxwood rule, with its nicks, patina, splatters, easy and familiar action, and even its smell - but then, that's just me, and trust me, don't try that kind of comparison with your wife, husband or significant other!
> 
> I've had a a couple of favorites now for close on to forty years if not longer. I've broken several over the years of course - rulers, not wives! And, I keep a spare or two around, because if you can't measure in a woodworking shop, you are shut down until you can. This brings me to my first point. A year ago I went off with my brother for a day to look at a boat for him. When he left, he drove off with one of my much-loved rulers in his car by accident - my fault. When I missed it, I called him - I said I loved it, didn't I? By that time, he had flown 5000 miles away and could not send it back. I told him not to bother, I'd just get another one - although the one I lost was so well seasoned and easy to use - I could flick it out and have it fully extended in about half a second, and I really hated to lose it. One thing about folding rulers is the more you use them the easier they operate, especially if the joints are kept oiled periodically. Eventually though, they can get too 'easy' and become sloppy - but just try getting a steel tape to hold up for forty years!
> 
> Problem was, no local supplier had the ruler model I had and preferred - a 'Master Mechanic' Inside Reading six foot folding ruler made of boxwood. Not the local hardware, not Lowe's, not Home Depot, no one! After a little research, I found the manufacturer no longer makes this model in boxwood. In plastic yes, but not for me - I'll pass on plastic, thank you. Besides, I strongly suspect those are made offshore now.
> 
> Then I got lucky, I thought. Lufkin still makes a boxwood model which looked exactly the same as mine in the pictures online - their model #066F. I ordered one and it came 'Made in the USA' right on the side. But it wasn't the same at all. Sure, inside reading, and all that, but it was different - thicker, bulky, heavier, klutzier. I practically hate it in fact, but kept it since it is the only spare I have now. Meanwhile, my brother has inherited my old rule and since he seems to like it, I don't have the heart to ask for it back. But, if I go visit him, I will take the new one and swap them out surreptitiously - he'll never notice the difference, will he?
> 
> Here is a picture of the old Master Mechanic versus the new Lufkin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now to my second point - why "Inside Reading"? Just in case you are not familiar with the difference in styles, inside reading means when you fold out part of your rule and lay it flat on your stock with the unfolded joints up towards you, you look at the numbers naturally reading from left to right, from low to high numbers.
> This is called 'English Measure'. The ruler lays nice and flat against your work, as you work from left to right, which seems right to me. See below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The more common type - called 'American Measure' is reversed - the low numbers are on the outside, so you must use it from right to left. If you try to use the rule from left to right, the unfolded joints are underneath, and you can't lay the rule flat on your work - it either must hang off the edge of your work - which is not convenient if you are working inside a large piece of stock like ply, or you are forced to read the numbers from high to low, or, you must unfold the full length of the ruler and flip it over for it to lay flat - then the numbers are upside down! For the life of me, I still can't figure why that style is dominant - and the only one available most places now. Have you noticed how hard it is to find really high quality hand tools now?
> 
> You will notice in the picture below there are small holes drilled around the one inch mark in my rules. That serves two purposes; one is to hold the end in place with a nail when I am marking off multiple smaller increments without fear of shifting, and the other is I can use my rule to swing an arc of up to a 71" radius on occasion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The are things I do like about steel tapes, one being the little thingy on the end to clip on the edge of something to hold the end - but those are the first things to go too. And of course you can have steel tapes in almost any length is you don't mind the weight. Don't tell anybody, but I do have a couple lying around. Another thing to keep in mind about your favorite rulers - or tapes - if you love them, don't ever, ever loan them or let anyone use them, anytime, no time, ever, and most especially children, who are drawn to them like magnets!
> 
> The last time one of my grandchildren took a shine to my ruler, I went out and bought a brand new one just for him - American Measure of course since it was all I could find.


Erik,

I never have gotten the hang of using a wooden fold-up. My husband uses one and I don't touch it. (Maybe I'll check whether it is American or English.)

Your reminiscing reminds me that when my two oldest grandchildren (grandson and granddaughter) were very young, I had a cheap, short (maybe 3' or 4') keychain tape measure that I kept my keys on so I would always have some way to measure when I was shopping. They asked repeatedly if they could have it when I died! I guess they thought I already had one foot in the grave way back then!

L/W


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Measuring Things - Rulers Versus Tapes*
> 
> *"MORE THAN YOU EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT SIX-FOOT FOLDING RULES!"*
> 
> Most people today use a flexible metal tape for measurement, except for some old-timers. There are reasons for this besides stubborn intransigence - although that surely plays a part. First, most set-in-their-ways people like me suspect metal things are more affected by temperature than wooden things, which is correct. Steel thermally expands or contracts roughly three times as much as the wood in a ruler. For example, a six foot length of steel tape will expand or contract about 19/1000" with a 40 degree F temp change, and the change with wood is only 6/1000". Since that is less than a 1/64" difference, in practical terms, it makes no difference. Maybe in rocket science, but not in woodworking.
> 
> Another reason? Well, by golly, we JUST DON'T LIKE those flimsy, fluttery, noisy darned things, that's what! Face it, we DO stick with the things we are used to and like. And, that isn't anything new either, I recall as a young person in the boat shop, the old guys back then sneered at my shiny, new six foot folding rule, clinging stubbornly to their gnarly old two foot versions! And don't even dare bring a steel tape into the shop! Ah well, times change, and so does everything around us.
> 
> And, just for the record, I have a two foot folding rule too, because there are a few interesting things you can do with those you can't do with anything else so conveniently, if at all. More about that perhaps later in another post.
> 
> I have seen many an old-timer flick out their two foot rule in one motion, and have the saw set and in action before I got my six-footer out of my pocket. And, I'll bet you, man for man, I can do the same thing these days against the young guy with his noxious steel tape clipped to his belt. And just try shoving a bit of scrap out of the way on the other side of the bench with your wimpy tape! The fact is, we work best with the things we like and are familiar with. To me, there is very little warmth and friendliness in a sterile piece of metal compared to my friendly boxwood rule, with its nicks, patina, splatters, easy and familiar action, and even its smell - but then, that's just me, and trust me, don't try that kind of comparison with your wife, husband or significant other!
> 
> I've had a a couple of favorites now for close on to forty years if not longer. I've broken several over the years of course - rulers, not wives! And, I keep a spare or two around, because if you can't measure in a woodworking shop, you are shut down until you can. This brings me to my first point. A year ago I went off with my brother for a day to look at a boat for him. When he left, he drove off with one of my much-loved rulers in his car by accident - my fault. When I missed it, I called him - I said I loved it, didn't I? By that time, he had flown 5000 miles away and could not send it back. I told him not to bother, I'd just get another one - although the one I lost was so well seasoned and easy to use - I could flick it out and have it fully extended in about half a second, and I really hated to lose it. One thing about folding rulers is the more you use them the easier they operate, especially if the joints are kept oiled periodically. Eventually though, they can get too 'easy' and become sloppy - but just try getting a steel tape to hold up for forty years!
> 
> Problem was, no local supplier had the ruler model I had and preferred - a 'Master Mechanic' Inside Reading six foot folding ruler made of boxwood. Not the local hardware, not Lowe's, not Home Depot, no one! After a little research, I found the manufacturer no longer makes this model in boxwood. In plastic yes, but not for me - I'll pass on plastic, thank you. Besides, I strongly suspect those are made offshore now.
> 
> Then I got lucky, I thought. Lufkin still makes a boxwood model which looked exactly the same as mine in the pictures online - their model #066F. I ordered one and it came 'Made in the USA' right on the side. But it wasn't the same at all. Sure, inside reading, and all that, but it was different - thicker, bulky, heavier, klutzier. I practically hate it in fact, but kept it since it is the only spare I have now. Meanwhile, my brother has inherited my old rule and since he seems to like it, I don't have the heart to ask for it back. But, if I go visit him, I will take the new one and swap them out surreptitiously - he'll never notice the difference, will he?
> 
> Here is a picture of the old Master Mechanic versus the new Lufkin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now to my second point - why "Inside Reading"? Just in case you are not familiar with the difference in styles, inside reading means when you fold out part of your rule and lay it flat on your stock with the unfolded joints up towards you, you look at the numbers naturally reading from left to right, from low to high numbers.
> This is called 'English Measure'. The ruler lays nice and flat against your work, as you work from left to right, which seems right to me. See below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The more common type - called 'American Measure' is reversed - the low numbers are on the outside, so you must use it from right to left. If you try to use the rule from left to right, the unfolded joints are underneath, and you can't lay the rule flat on your work - it either must hang off the edge of your work - which is not convenient if you are working inside a large piece of stock like ply, or you are forced to read the numbers from high to low, or, you must unfold the full length of the ruler and flip it over for it to lay flat - then the numbers are upside down! For the life of me, I still can't figure why that style is dominant - and the only one available most places now. Have you noticed how hard it is to find really high quality hand tools now?
> 
> You will notice in the picture below there are small holes drilled around the one inch mark in my rules. That serves two purposes; one is to hold the end in place with a nail when I am marking off multiple smaller increments without fear of shifting, and the other is I can use my rule to swing an arc of up to a 71" radius on occasion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The are things I do like about steel tapes, one being the little thingy on the end to clip on the edge of something to hold the end - but those are the first things to go too. And of course you can have steel tapes in almost any length is you don't mind the weight. Don't tell anybody, but I do have a couple lying around. Another thing to keep in mind about your favorite rulers - or tapes - if you love them, don't ever, ever loan them or let anyone use them, anytime, no time, ever, and most especially children, who are drawn to them like magnets!
> 
> The last time one of my grandchildren took a shine to my ruler, I went out and bought a brand new one just for him - American Measure of course since it was all I could find.


Yes John, the little brass slider is for taking inside measurements of things like windows and doors. You open the rule up to the last section that will fit inside the opening, and then slide the brass slider over to get the last little bit. You need to add that to the part represented by the open joints. They are normally in six inch increments, so if you have five in the space, it would be 30" plus the slide part. Capice? You can also use it as a depth gauge for a hole.

But, it is also easy to measure inside without the slider too - just measure about half the distance from each side and make a mark, then measure between the two marks and add everything up! I never liked the kind with the slider though, because it invariably gets bent it you carry the rule in your hip pocket as I do, and are then useless. But, back in the day when most workmen wore overalls, they always had a little side pocket on the right leg - and that was what it was for!


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Measuring Things - Rulers Versus Tapes*
> 
> *"MORE THAN YOU EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT SIX-FOOT FOLDING RULES!"*
> 
> Most people today use a flexible metal tape for measurement, except for some old-timers. There are reasons for this besides stubborn intransigence - although that surely plays a part. First, most set-in-their-ways people like me suspect metal things are more affected by temperature than wooden things, which is correct. Steel thermally expands or contracts roughly three times as much as the wood in a ruler. For example, a six foot length of steel tape will expand or contract about 19/1000" with a 40 degree F temp change, and the change with wood is only 6/1000". Since that is less than a 1/64" difference, in practical terms, it makes no difference. Maybe in rocket science, but not in woodworking.
> 
> Another reason? Well, by golly, we JUST DON'T LIKE those flimsy, fluttery, noisy darned things, that's what! Face it, we DO stick with the things we are used to and like. And, that isn't anything new either, I recall as a young person in the boat shop, the old guys back then sneered at my shiny, new six foot folding rule, clinging stubbornly to their gnarly old two foot versions! And don't even dare bring a steel tape into the shop! Ah well, times change, and so does everything around us.
> 
> And, just for the record, I have a two foot folding rule too, because there are a few interesting things you can do with those you can't do with anything else so conveniently, if at all. More about that perhaps later in another post.
> 
> I have seen many an old-timer flick out their two foot rule in one motion, and have the saw set and in action before I got my six-footer out of my pocket. And, I'll bet you, man for man, I can do the same thing these days against the young guy with his noxious steel tape clipped to his belt. And just try shoving a bit of scrap out of the way on the other side of the bench with your wimpy tape! The fact is, we work best with the things we like and are familiar with. To me, there is very little warmth and friendliness in a sterile piece of metal compared to my friendly boxwood rule, with its nicks, patina, splatters, easy and familiar action, and even its smell - but then, that's just me, and trust me, don't try that kind of comparison with your wife, husband or significant other!
> 
> I've had a a couple of favorites now for close on to forty years if not longer. I've broken several over the years of course - rulers, not wives! And, I keep a spare or two around, because if you can't measure in a woodworking shop, you are shut down until you can. This brings me to my first point. A year ago I went off with my brother for a day to look at a boat for him. When he left, he drove off with one of my much-loved rulers in his car by accident - my fault. When I missed it, I called him - I said I loved it, didn't I? By that time, he had flown 5000 miles away and could not send it back. I told him not to bother, I'd just get another one - although the one I lost was so well seasoned and easy to use - I could flick it out and have it fully extended in about half a second, and I really hated to lose it. One thing about folding rulers is the more you use them the easier they operate, especially if the joints are kept oiled periodically. Eventually though, they can get too 'easy' and become sloppy - but just try getting a steel tape to hold up for forty years!
> 
> Problem was, no local supplier had the ruler model I had and preferred - a 'Master Mechanic' Inside Reading six foot folding ruler made of boxwood. Not the local hardware, not Lowe's, not Home Depot, no one! After a little research, I found the manufacturer no longer makes this model in boxwood. In plastic yes, but not for me - I'll pass on plastic, thank you. Besides, I strongly suspect those are made offshore now.
> 
> Then I got lucky, I thought. Lufkin still makes a boxwood model which looked exactly the same as mine in the pictures online - their model #066F. I ordered one and it came 'Made in the USA' right on the side. But it wasn't the same at all. Sure, inside reading, and all that, but it was different - thicker, bulky, heavier, klutzier. I practically hate it in fact, but kept it since it is the only spare I have now. Meanwhile, my brother has inherited my old rule and since he seems to like it, I don't have the heart to ask for it back. But, if I go visit him, I will take the new one and swap them out surreptitiously - he'll never notice the difference, will he?
> 
> Here is a picture of the old Master Mechanic versus the new Lufkin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now to my second point - why "Inside Reading"? Just in case you are not familiar with the difference in styles, inside reading means when you fold out part of your rule and lay it flat on your stock with the unfolded joints up towards you, you look at the numbers naturally reading from left to right, from low to high numbers.
> This is called 'English Measure'. The ruler lays nice and flat against your work, as you work from left to right, which seems right to me. See below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The more common type - called 'American Measure' is reversed - the low numbers are on the outside, so you must use it from right to left. If you try to use the rule from left to right, the unfolded joints are underneath, and you can't lay the rule flat on your work - it either must hang off the edge of your work - which is not convenient if you are working inside a large piece of stock like ply, or you are forced to read the numbers from high to low, or, you must unfold the full length of the ruler and flip it over for it to lay flat - then the numbers are upside down! For the life of me, I still can't figure why that style is dominant - and the only one available most places now. Have you noticed how hard it is to find really high quality hand tools now?
> 
> You will notice in the picture below there are small holes drilled around the one inch mark in my rules. That serves two purposes; one is to hold the end in place with a nail when I am marking off multiple smaller increments without fear of shifting, and the other is I can use my rule to swing an arc of up to a 71" radius on occasion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The are things I do like about steel tapes, one being the little thingy on the end to clip on the edge of something to hold the end - but those are the first things to go too. And of course you can have steel tapes in almost any length is you don't mind the weight. Don't tell anybody, but I do have a couple lying around. Another thing to keep in mind about your favorite rulers - or tapes - if you love them, don't ever, ever loan them or let anyone use them, anytime, no time, ever, and most especially children, who are drawn to them like magnets!
> 
> The last time one of my grandchildren took a shine to my ruler, I went out and bought a brand new one just for him - American Measure of course since it was all I could find.


L/W - I never saw a small child who wasn't fascinated by a folding rule or steel tape for some reason. But, a straight ruler or a yardstick - not so much. Isn't that odd? Maybe the toy companies ought to give that some thought.


----------



## MsDebbieP

GnarlyErik said:


> *Measuring Things - Rulers Versus Tapes*
> 
> *"MORE THAN YOU EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT SIX-FOOT FOLDING RULES!"*
> 
> Most people today use a flexible metal tape for measurement, except for some old-timers. There are reasons for this besides stubborn intransigence - although that surely plays a part. First, most set-in-their-ways people like me suspect metal things are more affected by temperature than wooden things, which is correct. Steel thermally expands or contracts roughly three times as much as the wood in a ruler. For example, a six foot length of steel tape will expand or contract about 19/1000" with a 40 degree F temp change, and the change with wood is only 6/1000". Since that is less than a 1/64" difference, in practical terms, it makes no difference. Maybe in rocket science, but not in woodworking.
> 
> Another reason? Well, by golly, we JUST DON'T LIKE those flimsy, fluttery, noisy darned things, that's what! Face it, we DO stick with the things we are used to and like. And, that isn't anything new either, I recall as a young person in the boat shop, the old guys back then sneered at my shiny, new six foot folding rule, clinging stubbornly to their gnarly old two foot versions! And don't even dare bring a steel tape into the shop! Ah well, times change, and so does everything around us.
> 
> And, just for the record, I have a two foot folding rule too, because there are a few interesting things you can do with those you can't do with anything else so conveniently, if at all. More about that perhaps later in another post.
> 
> I have seen many an old-timer flick out their two foot rule in one motion, and have the saw set and in action before I got my six-footer out of my pocket. And, I'll bet you, man for man, I can do the same thing these days against the young guy with his noxious steel tape clipped to his belt. And just try shoving a bit of scrap out of the way on the other side of the bench with your wimpy tape! The fact is, we work best with the things we like and are familiar with. To me, there is very little warmth and friendliness in a sterile piece of metal compared to my friendly boxwood rule, with its nicks, patina, splatters, easy and familiar action, and even its smell - but then, that's just me, and trust me, don't try that kind of comparison with your wife, husband or significant other!
> 
> I've had a a couple of favorites now for close on to forty years if not longer. I've broken several over the years of course - rulers, not wives! And, I keep a spare or two around, because if you can't measure in a woodworking shop, you are shut down until you can. This brings me to my first point. A year ago I went off with my brother for a day to look at a boat for him. When he left, he drove off with one of my much-loved rulers in his car by accident - my fault. When I missed it, I called him - I said I loved it, didn't I? By that time, he had flown 5000 miles away and could not send it back. I told him not to bother, I'd just get another one - although the one I lost was so well seasoned and easy to use - I could flick it out and have it fully extended in about half a second, and I really hated to lose it. One thing about folding rulers is the more you use them the easier they operate, especially if the joints are kept oiled periodically. Eventually though, they can get too 'easy' and become sloppy - but just try getting a steel tape to hold up for forty years!
> 
> Problem was, no local supplier had the ruler model I had and preferred - a 'Master Mechanic' Inside Reading six foot folding ruler made of boxwood. Not the local hardware, not Lowe's, not Home Depot, no one! After a little research, I found the manufacturer no longer makes this model in boxwood. In plastic yes, but not for me - I'll pass on plastic, thank you. Besides, I strongly suspect those are made offshore now.
> 
> Then I got lucky, I thought. Lufkin still makes a boxwood model which looked exactly the same as mine in the pictures online - their model #066F. I ordered one and it came 'Made in the USA' right on the side. But it wasn't the same at all. Sure, inside reading, and all that, but it was different - thicker, bulky, heavier, klutzier. I practically hate it in fact, but kept it since it is the only spare I have now. Meanwhile, my brother has inherited my old rule and since he seems to like it, I don't have the heart to ask for it back. But, if I go visit him, I will take the new one and swap them out surreptitiously - he'll never notice the difference, will he?
> 
> Here is a picture of the old Master Mechanic versus the new Lufkin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now to my second point - why "Inside Reading"? Just in case you are not familiar with the difference in styles, inside reading means when you fold out part of your rule and lay it flat on your stock with the unfolded joints up towards you, you look at the numbers naturally reading from left to right, from low to high numbers.
> This is called 'English Measure'. The ruler lays nice and flat against your work, as you work from left to right, which seems right to me. See below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The more common type - called 'American Measure' is reversed - the low numbers are on the outside, so you must use it from right to left. If you try to use the rule from left to right, the unfolded joints are underneath, and you can't lay the rule flat on your work - it either must hang off the edge of your work - which is not convenient if you are working inside a large piece of stock like ply, or you are forced to read the numbers from high to low, or, you must unfold the full length of the ruler and flip it over for it to lay flat - then the numbers are upside down! For the life of me, I still can't figure why that style is dominant - and the only one available most places now. Have you noticed how hard it is to find really high quality hand tools now?
> 
> You will notice in the picture below there are small holes drilled around the one inch mark in my rules. That serves two purposes; one is to hold the end in place with a nail when I am marking off multiple smaller increments without fear of shifting, and the other is I can use my rule to swing an arc of up to a 71" radius on occasion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The are things I do like about steel tapes, one being the little thingy on the end to clip on the edge of something to hold the end - but those are the first things to go too. And of course you can have steel tapes in almost any length is you don't mind the weight. Don't tell anybody, but I do have a couple lying around. Another thing to keep in mind about your favorite rulers - or tapes - if you love them, don't ever, ever loan them or let anyone use them, anytime, no time, ever, and most especially children, who are drawn to them like magnets!
> 
> The last time one of my grandchildren took a shine to my ruler, I went out and bought a brand new one just for him - American Measure of course since it was all I could find.


a lovely posting!!
Now, if only the numbers were facing the right way-being a lefty I apparently want to measure in the wrong direction all the time and the numbers are upside down.


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Measuring Things - Rulers Versus Tapes*
> 
> *"MORE THAN YOU EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT SIX-FOOT FOLDING RULES!"*
> 
> Most people today use a flexible metal tape for measurement, except for some old-timers. There are reasons for this besides stubborn intransigence - although that surely plays a part. First, most set-in-their-ways people like me suspect metal things are more affected by temperature than wooden things, which is correct. Steel thermally expands or contracts roughly three times as much as the wood in a ruler. For example, a six foot length of steel tape will expand or contract about 19/1000" with a 40 degree F temp change, and the change with wood is only 6/1000". Since that is less than a 1/64" difference, in practical terms, it makes no difference. Maybe in rocket science, but not in woodworking.
> 
> Another reason? Well, by golly, we JUST DON'T LIKE those flimsy, fluttery, noisy darned things, that's what! Face it, we DO stick with the things we are used to and like. And, that isn't anything new either, I recall as a young person in the boat shop, the old guys back then sneered at my shiny, new six foot folding rule, clinging stubbornly to their gnarly old two foot versions! And don't even dare bring a steel tape into the shop! Ah well, times change, and so does everything around us.
> 
> And, just for the record, I have a two foot folding rule too, because there are a few interesting things you can do with those you can't do with anything else so conveniently, if at all. More about that perhaps later in another post.
> 
> I have seen many an old-timer flick out their two foot rule in one motion, and have the saw set and in action before I got my six-footer out of my pocket. And, I'll bet you, man for man, I can do the same thing these days against the young guy with his noxious steel tape clipped to his belt. And just try shoving a bit of scrap out of the way on the other side of the bench with your wimpy tape! The fact is, we work best with the things we like and are familiar with. To me, there is very little warmth and friendliness in a sterile piece of metal compared to my friendly boxwood rule, with its nicks, patina, splatters, easy and familiar action, and even its smell - but then, that's just me, and trust me, don't try that kind of comparison with your wife, husband or significant other!
> 
> I've had a a couple of favorites now for close on to forty years if not longer. I've broken several over the years of course - rulers, not wives! And, I keep a spare or two around, because if you can't measure in a woodworking shop, you are shut down until you can. This brings me to my first point. A year ago I went off with my brother for a day to look at a boat for him. When he left, he drove off with one of my much-loved rulers in his car by accident - my fault. When I missed it, I called him - I said I loved it, didn't I? By that time, he had flown 5000 miles away and could not send it back. I told him not to bother, I'd just get another one - although the one I lost was so well seasoned and easy to use - I could flick it out and have it fully extended in about half a second, and I really hated to lose it. One thing about folding rulers is the more you use them the easier they operate, especially if the joints are kept oiled periodically. Eventually though, they can get too 'easy' and become sloppy - but just try getting a steel tape to hold up for forty years!
> 
> Problem was, no local supplier had the ruler model I had and preferred - a 'Master Mechanic' Inside Reading six foot folding ruler made of boxwood. Not the local hardware, not Lowe's, not Home Depot, no one! After a little research, I found the manufacturer no longer makes this model in boxwood. In plastic yes, but not for me - I'll pass on plastic, thank you. Besides, I strongly suspect those are made offshore now.
> 
> Then I got lucky, I thought. Lufkin still makes a boxwood model which looked exactly the same as mine in the pictures online - their model #066F. I ordered one and it came 'Made in the USA' right on the side. But it wasn't the same at all. Sure, inside reading, and all that, but it was different - thicker, bulky, heavier, klutzier. I practically hate it in fact, but kept it since it is the only spare I have now. Meanwhile, my brother has inherited my old rule and since he seems to like it, I don't have the heart to ask for it back. But, if I go visit him, I will take the new one and swap them out surreptitiously - he'll never notice the difference, will he?
> 
> Here is a picture of the old Master Mechanic versus the new Lufkin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now to my second point - why "Inside Reading"? Just in case you are not familiar with the difference in styles, inside reading means when you fold out part of your rule and lay it flat on your stock with the unfolded joints up towards you, you look at the numbers naturally reading from left to right, from low to high numbers.
> This is called 'English Measure'. The ruler lays nice and flat against your work, as you work from left to right, which seems right to me. See below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The more common type - called 'American Measure' is reversed - the low numbers are on the outside, so you must use it from right to left. If you try to use the rule from left to right, the unfolded joints are underneath, and you can't lay the rule flat on your work - it either must hang off the edge of your work - which is not convenient if you are working inside a large piece of stock like ply, or you are forced to read the numbers from high to low, or, you must unfold the full length of the ruler and flip it over for it to lay flat - then the numbers are upside down! For the life of me, I still can't figure why that style is dominant - and the only one available most places now. Have you noticed how hard it is to find really high quality hand tools now?
> 
> You will notice in the picture below there are small holes drilled around the one inch mark in my rules. That serves two purposes; one is to hold the end in place with a nail when I am marking off multiple smaller increments without fear of shifting, and the other is I can use my rule to swing an arc of up to a 71" radius on occasion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The are things I do like about steel tapes, one being the little thingy on the end to clip on the edge of something to hold the end - but those are the first things to go too. And of course you can have steel tapes in almost any length is you don't mind the weight. Don't tell anybody, but I do have a couple lying around. Another thing to keep in mind about your favorite rulers - or tapes - if you love them, don't ever, ever loan them or let anyone use them, anytime, no time, ever, and most especially children, who are drawn to them like magnets!
> 
> The last time one of my grandchildren took a shine to my ruler, I went out and bought a brand new one just for him - American Measure of course since it was all I could find.


Well Debbie, I have read somewhere that the reason the American version ended up opposite the English model was simple perversity - at a time when the US was at odds with Britain, the standards office decided things would be different. That may be so, but I sometimes wondered if the reason was a left-hander was making the final decision, and decided things should read from right to left! The problem with that is, as you say, the numbers appear upside down now. But, perhaps they did not to begin with, but so many right-handers complained they turned the numbers over, and now no one is happy! Stranger things have happened in history.


----------



## MsDebbieP

GnarlyErik said:


> *Measuring Things - Rulers Versus Tapes*
> 
> *"MORE THAN YOU EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT SIX-FOOT FOLDING RULES!"*
> 
> Most people today use a flexible metal tape for measurement, except for some old-timers. There are reasons for this besides stubborn intransigence - although that surely plays a part. First, most set-in-their-ways people like me suspect metal things are more affected by temperature than wooden things, which is correct. Steel thermally expands or contracts roughly three times as much as the wood in a ruler. For example, a six foot length of steel tape will expand or contract about 19/1000" with a 40 degree F temp change, and the change with wood is only 6/1000". Since that is less than a 1/64" difference, in practical terms, it makes no difference. Maybe in rocket science, but not in woodworking.
> 
> Another reason? Well, by golly, we JUST DON'T LIKE those flimsy, fluttery, noisy darned things, that's what! Face it, we DO stick with the things we are used to and like. And, that isn't anything new either, I recall as a young person in the boat shop, the old guys back then sneered at my shiny, new six foot folding rule, clinging stubbornly to their gnarly old two foot versions! And don't even dare bring a steel tape into the shop! Ah well, times change, and so does everything around us.
> 
> And, just for the record, I have a two foot folding rule too, because there are a few interesting things you can do with those you can't do with anything else so conveniently, if at all. More about that perhaps later in another post.
> 
> I have seen many an old-timer flick out their two foot rule in one motion, and have the saw set and in action before I got my six-footer out of my pocket. And, I'll bet you, man for man, I can do the same thing these days against the young guy with his noxious steel tape clipped to his belt. And just try shoving a bit of scrap out of the way on the other side of the bench with your wimpy tape! The fact is, we work best with the things we like and are familiar with. To me, there is very little warmth and friendliness in a sterile piece of metal compared to my friendly boxwood rule, with its nicks, patina, splatters, easy and familiar action, and even its smell - but then, that's just me, and trust me, don't try that kind of comparison with your wife, husband or significant other!
> 
> I've had a a couple of favorites now for close on to forty years if not longer. I've broken several over the years of course - rulers, not wives! And, I keep a spare or two around, because if you can't measure in a woodworking shop, you are shut down until you can. This brings me to my first point. A year ago I went off with my brother for a day to look at a boat for him. When he left, he drove off with one of my much-loved rulers in his car by accident - my fault. When I missed it, I called him - I said I loved it, didn't I? By that time, he had flown 5000 miles away and could not send it back. I told him not to bother, I'd just get another one - although the one I lost was so well seasoned and easy to use - I could flick it out and have it fully extended in about half a second, and I really hated to lose it. One thing about folding rulers is the more you use them the easier they operate, especially if the joints are kept oiled periodically. Eventually though, they can get too 'easy' and become sloppy - but just try getting a steel tape to hold up for forty years!
> 
> Problem was, no local supplier had the ruler model I had and preferred - a 'Master Mechanic' Inside Reading six foot folding ruler made of boxwood. Not the local hardware, not Lowe's, not Home Depot, no one! After a little research, I found the manufacturer no longer makes this model in boxwood. In plastic yes, but not for me - I'll pass on plastic, thank you. Besides, I strongly suspect those are made offshore now.
> 
> Then I got lucky, I thought. Lufkin still makes a boxwood model which looked exactly the same as mine in the pictures online - their model #066F. I ordered one and it came 'Made in the USA' right on the side. But it wasn't the same at all. Sure, inside reading, and all that, but it was different - thicker, bulky, heavier, klutzier. I practically hate it in fact, but kept it since it is the only spare I have now. Meanwhile, my brother has inherited my old rule and since he seems to like it, I don't have the heart to ask for it back. But, if I go visit him, I will take the new one and swap them out surreptitiously - he'll never notice the difference, will he?
> 
> Here is a picture of the old Master Mechanic versus the new Lufkin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now to my second point - why "Inside Reading"? Just in case you are not familiar with the difference in styles, inside reading means when you fold out part of your rule and lay it flat on your stock with the unfolded joints up towards you, you look at the numbers naturally reading from left to right, from low to high numbers.
> This is called 'English Measure'. The ruler lays nice and flat against your work, as you work from left to right, which seems right to me. See below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The more common type - called 'American Measure' is reversed - the low numbers are on the outside, so you must use it from right to left. If you try to use the rule from left to right, the unfolded joints are underneath, and you can't lay the rule flat on your work - it either must hang off the edge of your work - which is not convenient if you are working inside a large piece of stock like ply, or you are forced to read the numbers from high to low, or, you must unfold the full length of the ruler and flip it over for it to lay flat - then the numbers are upside down! For the life of me, I still can't figure why that style is dominant - and the only one available most places now. Have you noticed how hard it is to find really high quality hand tools now?
> 
> You will notice in the picture below there are small holes drilled around the one inch mark in my rules. That serves two purposes; one is to hold the end in place with a nail when I am marking off multiple smaller increments without fear of shifting, and the other is I can use my rule to swing an arc of up to a 71" radius on occasion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The are things I do like about steel tapes, one being the little thingy on the end to clip on the edge of something to hold the end - but those are the first things to go too. And of course you can have steel tapes in almost any length is you don't mind the weight. Don't tell anybody, but I do have a couple lying around. Another thing to keep in mind about your favorite rulers - or tapes - if you love them, don't ever, ever loan them or let anyone use them, anytime, no time, ever, and most especially children, who are drawn to them like magnets!
> 
> The last time one of my grandchildren took a shine to my ruler, I went out and bought a brand new one just for him - American Measure of course since it was all I could find.


haha "and now no one is happy" ... life! 

aren't we silly?!


----------



## superdav721

GnarlyErik said:


> *Measuring Things - Rulers Versus Tapes*
> 
> *"MORE THAN YOU EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT SIX-FOOT FOLDING RULES!"*
> 
> Most people today use a flexible metal tape for measurement, except for some old-timers. There are reasons for this besides stubborn intransigence - although that surely plays a part. First, most set-in-their-ways people like me suspect metal things are more affected by temperature than wooden things, which is correct. Steel thermally expands or contracts roughly three times as much as the wood in a ruler. For example, a six foot length of steel tape will expand or contract about 19/1000" with a 40 degree F temp change, and the change with wood is only 6/1000". Since that is less than a 1/64" difference, in practical terms, it makes no difference. Maybe in rocket science, but not in woodworking.
> 
> Another reason? Well, by golly, we JUST DON'T LIKE those flimsy, fluttery, noisy darned things, that's what! Face it, we DO stick with the things we are used to and like. And, that isn't anything new either, I recall as a young person in the boat shop, the old guys back then sneered at my shiny, new six foot folding rule, clinging stubbornly to their gnarly old two foot versions! And don't even dare bring a steel tape into the shop! Ah well, times change, and so does everything around us.
> 
> And, just for the record, I have a two foot folding rule too, because there are a few interesting things you can do with those you can't do with anything else so conveniently, if at all. More about that perhaps later in another post.
> 
> I have seen many an old-timer flick out their two foot rule in one motion, and have the saw set and in action before I got my six-footer out of my pocket. And, I'll bet you, man for man, I can do the same thing these days against the young guy with his noxious steel tape clipped to his belt. And just try shoving a bit of scrap out of the way on the other side of the bench with your wimpy tape! The fact is, we work best with the things we like and are familiar with. To me, there is very little warmth and friendliness in a sterile piece of metal compared to my friendly boxwood rule, with its nicks, patina, splatters, easy and familiar action, and even its smell - but then, that's just me, and trust me, don't try that kind of comparison with your wife, husband or significant other!
> 
> I've had a a couple of favorites now for close on to forty years if not longer. I've broken several over the years of course - rulers, not wives! And, I keep a spare or two around, because if you can't measure in a woodworking shop, you are shut down until you can. This brings me to my first point. A year ago I went off with my brother for a day to look at a boat for him. When he left, he drove off with one of my much-loved rulers in his car by accident - my fault. When I missed it, I called him - I said I loved it, didn't I? By that time, he had flown 5000 miles away and could not send it back. I told him not to bother, I'd just get another one - although the one I lost was so well seasoned and easy to use - I could flick it out and have it fully extended in about half a second, and I really hated to lose it. One thing about folding rulers is the more you use them the easier they operate, especially if the joints are kept oiled periodically. Eventually though, they can get too 'easy' and become sloppy - but just try getting a steel tape to hold up for forty years!
> 
> Problem was, no local supplier had the ruler model I had and preferred - a 'Master Mechanic' Inside Reading six foot folding ruler made of boxwood. Not the local hardware, not Lowe's, not Home Depot, no one! After a little research, I found the manufacturer no longer makes this model in boxwood. In plastic yes, but not for me - I'll pass on plastic, thank you. Besides, I strongly suspect those are made offshore now.
> 
> Then I got lucky, I thought. Lufkin still makes a boxwood model which looked exactly the same as mine in the pictures online - their model #066F. I ordered one and it came 'Made in the USA' right on the side. But it wasn't the same at all. Sure, inside reading, and all that, but it was different - thicker, bulky, heavier, klutzier. I practically hate it in fact, but kept it since it is the only spare I have now. Meanwhile, my brother has inherited my old rule and since he seems to like it, I don't have the heart to ask for it back. But, if I go visit him, I will take the new one and swap them out surreptitiously - he'll never notice the difference, will he?
> 
> Here is a picture of the old Master Mechanic versus the new Lufkin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now to my second point - why "Inside Reading"? Just in case you are not familiar with the difference in styles, inside reading means when you fold out part of your rule and lay it flat on your stock with the unfolded joints up towards you, you look at the numbers naturally reading from left to right, from low to high numbers.
> This is called 'English Measure'. The ruler lays nice and flat against your work, as you work from left to right, which seems right to me. See below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The more common type - called 'American Measure' is reversed - the low numbers are on the outside, so you must use it from right to left. If you try to use the rule from left to right, the unfolded joints are underneath, and you can't lay the rule flat on your work - it either must hang off the edge of your work - which is not convenient if you are working inside a large piece of stock like ply, or you are forced to read the numbers from high to low, or, you must unfold the full length of the ruler and flip it over for it to lay flat - then the numbers are upside down! For the life of me, I still can't figure why that style is dominant - and the only one available most places now. Have you noticed how hard it is to find really high quality hand tools now?
> 
> You will notice in the picture below there are small holes drilled around the one inch mark in my rules. That serves two purposes; one is to hold the end in place with a nail when I am marking off multiple smaller increments without fear of shifting, and the other is I can use my rule to swing an arc of up to a 71" radius on occasion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The are things I do like about steel tapes, one being the little thingy on the end to clip on the edge of something to hold the end - but those are the first things to go too. And of course you can have steel tapes in almost any length is you don't mind the weight. Don't tell anybody, but I do have a couple lying around. Another thing to keep in mind about your favorite rulers - or tapes - if you love them, don't ever, ever loan them or let anyone use them, anytime, no time, ever, and most especially children, who are drawn to them like magnets!
> 
> The last time one of my grandchildren took a shine to my ruler, I went out and bought a brand new one just for him - American Measure of course since it was all I could find.


I enjoyed that so much. You taught me a lot. I have a shop full of them and was taught by my father that they are so much better. You will not catch a brick layer with out one. Thanks for the wonderful post. Well written and well done.


----------



## mafe

GnarlyErik said:


> *Measuring Things - Rulers Versus Tapes*
> 
> *"MORE THAN YOU EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT SIX-FOOT FOLDING RULES!"*
> 
> Most people today use a flexible metal tape for measurement, except for some old-timers. There are reasons for this besides stubborn intransigence - although that surely plays a part. First, most set-in-their-ways people like me suspect metal things are more affected by temperature than wooden things, which is correct. Steel thermally expands or contracts roughly three times as much as the wood in a ruler. For example, a six foot length of steel tape will expand or contract about 19/1000" with a 40 degree F temp change, and the change with wood is only 6/1000". Since that is less than a 1/64" difference, in practical terms, it makes no difference. Maybe in rocket science, but not in woodworking.
> 
> Another reason? Well, by golly, we JUST DON'T LIKE those flimsy, fluttery, noisy darned things, that's what! Face it, we DO stick with the things we are used to and like. And, that isn't anything new either, I recall as a young person in the boat shop, the old guys back then sneered at my shiny, new six foot folding rule, clinging stubbornly to their gnarly old two foot versions! And don't even dare bring a steel tape into the shop! Ah well, times change, and so does everything around us.
> 
> And, just for the record, I have a two foot folding rule too, because there are a few interesting things you can do with those you can't do with anything else so conveniently, if at all. More about that perhaps later in another post.
> 
> I have seen many an old-timer flick out their two foot rule in one motion, and have the saw set and in action before I got my six-footer out of my pocket. And, I'll bet you, man for man, I can do the same thing these days against the young guy with his noxious steel tape clipped to his belt. And just try shoving a bit of scrap out of the way on the other side of the bench with your wimpy tape! The fact is, we work best with the things we like and are familiar with. To me, there is very little warmth and friendliness in a sterile piece of metal compared to my friendly boxwood rule, with its nicks, patina, splatters, easy and familiar action, and even its smell - but then, that's just me, and trust me, don't try that kind of comparison with your wife, husband or significant other!
> 
> I've had a a couple of favorites now for close on to forty years if not longer. I've broken several over the years of course - rulers, not wives! And, I keep a spare or two around, because if you can't measure in a woodworking shop, you are shut down until you can. This brings me to my first point. A year ago I went off with my brother for a day to look at a boat for him. When he left, he drove off with one of my much-loved rulers in his car by accident - my fault. When I missed it, I called him - I said I loved it, didn't I? By that time, he had flown 5000 miles away and could not send it back. I told him not to bother, I'd just get another one - although the one I lost was so well seasoned and easy to use - I could flick it out and have it fully extended in about half a second, and I really hated to lose it. One thing about folding rulers is the more you use them the easier they operate, especially if the joints are kept oiled periodically. Eventually though, they can get too 'easy' and become sloppy - but just try getting a steel tape to hold up for forty years!
> 
> Problem was, no local supplier had the ruler model I had and preferred - a 'Master Mechanic' Inside Reading six foot folding ruler made of boxwood. Not the local hardware, not Lowe's, not Home Depot, no one! After a little research, I found the manufacturer no longer makes this model in boxwood. In plastic yes, but not for me - I'll pass on plastic, thank you. Besides, I strongly suspect those are made offshore now.
> 
> Then I got lucky, I thought. Lufkin still makes a boxwood model which looked exactly the same as mine in the pictures online - their model #066F. I ordered one and it came 'Made in the USA' right on the side. But it wasn't the same at all. Sure, inside reading, and all that, but it was different - thicker, bulky, heavier, klutzier. I practically hate it in fact, but kept it since it is the only spare I have now. Meanwhile, my brother has inherited my old rule and since he seems to like it, I don't have the heart to ask for it back. But, if I go visit him, I will take the new one and swap them out surreptitiously - he'll never notice the difference, will he?
> 
> Here is a picture of the old Master Mechanic versus the new Lufkin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now to my second point - why "Inside Reading"? Just in case you are not familiar with the difference in styles, inside reading means when you fold out part of your rule and lay it flat on your stock with the unfolded joints up towards you, you look at the numbers naturally reading from left to right, from low to high numbers.
> This is called 'English Measure'. The ruler lays nice and flat against your work, as you work from left to right, which seems right to me. See below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The more common type - called 'American Measure' is reversed - the low numbers are on the outside, so you must use it from right to left. If you try to use the rule from left to right, the unfolded joints are underneath, and you can't lay the rule flat on your work - it either must hang off the edge of your work - which is not convenient if you are working inside a large piece of stock like ply, or you are forced to read the numbers from high to low, or, you must unfold the full length of the ruler and flip it over for it to lay flat - then the numbers are upside down! For the life of me, I still can't figure why that style is dominant - and the only one available most places now. Have you noticed how hard it is to find really high quality hand tools now?
> 
> You will notice in the picture below there are small holes drilled around the one inch mark in my rules. That serves two purposes; one is to hold the end in place with a nail when I am marking off multiple smaller increments without fear of shifting, and the other is I can use my rule to swing an arc of up to a 71" radius on occasion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The are things I do like about steel tapes, one being the little thingy on the end to clip on the edge of something to hold the end - but those are the first things to go too. And of course you can have steel tapes in almost any length is you don't mind the weight. Don't tell anybody, but I do have a couple lying around. Another thing to keep in mind about your favorite rulers - or tapes - if you love them, don't ever, ever loan them or let anyone use them, anytime, no time, ever, and most especially children, who are drawn to them like magnets!
> 
> The last time one of my grandchildren took a shine to my ruler, I went out and bought a brand new one just for him - American Measure of course since it was all I could find.


Here is a trick how to fold it:


----------



## NormG

GnarlyErik said:


> *Measuring Things - Rulers Versus Tapes*
> 
> *"MORE THAN YOU EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT SIX-FOOT FOLDING RULES!"*
> 
> Most people today use a flexible metal tape for measurement, except for some old-timers. There are reasons for this besides stubborn intransigence - although that surely plays a part. First, most set-in-their-ways people like me suspect metal things are more affected by temperature than wooden things, which is correct. Steel thermally expands or contracts roughly three times as much as the wood in a ruler. For example, a six foot length of steel tape will expand or contract about 19/1000" with a 40 degree F temp change, and the change with wood is only 6/1000". Since that is less than a 1/64" difference, in practical terms, it makes no difference. Maybe in rocket science, but not in woodworking.
> 
> Another reason? Well, by golly, we JUST DON'T LIKE those flimsy, fluttery, noisy darned things, that's what! Face it, we DO stick with the things we are used to and like. And, that isn't anything new either, I recall as a young person in the boat shop, the old guys back then sneered at my shiny, new six foot folding rule, clinging stubbornly to their gnarly old two foot versions! And don't even dare bring a steel tape into the shop! Ah well, times change, and so does everything around us.
> 
> And, just for the record, I have a two foot folding rule too, because there are a few interesting things you can do with those you can't do with anything else so conveniently, if at all. More about that perhaps later in another post.
> 
> I have seen many an old-timer flick out their two foot rule in one motion, and have the saw set and in action before I got my six-footer out of my pocket. And, I'll bet you, man for man, I can do the same thing these days against the young guy with his noxious steel tape clipped to his belt. And just try shoving a bit of scrap out of the way on the other side of the bench with your wimpy tape! The fact is, we work best with the things we like and are familiar with. To me, there is very little warmth and friendliness in a sterile piece of metal compared to my friendly boxwood rule, with its nicks, patina, splatters, easy and familiar action, and even its smell - but then, that's just me, and trust me, don't try that kind of comparison with your wife, husband or significant other!
> 
> I've had a a couple of favorites now for close on to forty years if not longer. I've broken several over the years of course - rulers, not wives! And, I keep a spare or two around, because if you can't measure in a woodworking shop, you are shut down until you can. This brings me to my first point. A year ago I went off with my brother for a day to look at a boat for him. When he left, he drove off with one of my much-loved rulers in his car by accident - my fault. When I missed it, I called him - I said I loved it, didn't I? By that time, he had flown 5000 miles away and could not send it back. I told him not to bother, I'd just get another one - although the one I lost was so well seasoned and easy to use - I could flick it out and have it fully extended in about half a second, and I really hated to lose it. One thing about folding rulers is the more you use them the easier they operate, especially if the joints are kept oiled periodically. Eventually though, they can get too 'easy' and become sloppy - but just try getting a steel tape to hold up for forty years!
> 
> Problem was, no local supplier had the ruler model I had and preferred - a 'Master Mechanic' Inside Reading six foot folding ruler made of boxwood. Not the local hardware, not Lowe's, not Home Depot, no one! After a little research, I found the manufacturer no longer makes this model in boxwood. In plastic yes, but not for me - I'll pass on plastic, thank you. Besides, I strongly suspect those are made offshore now.
> 
> Then I got lucky, I thought. Lufkin still makes a boxwood model which looked exactly the same as mine in the pictures online - their model #066F. I ordered one and it came 'Made in the USA' right on the side. But it wasn't the same at all. Sure, inside reading, and all that, but it was different - thicker, bulky, heavier, klutzier. I practically hate it in fact, but kept it since it is the only spare I have now. Meanwhile, my brother has inherited my old rule and since he seems to like it, I don't have the heart to ask for it back. But, if I go visit him, I will take the new one and swap them out surreptitiously - he'll never notice the difference, will he?
> 
> Here is a picture of the old Master Mechanic versus the new Lufkin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now to my second point - why "Inside Reading"? Just in case you are not familiar with the difference in styles, inside reading means when you fold out part of your rule and lay it flat on your stock with the unfolded joints up towards you, you look at the numbers naturally reading from left to right, from low to high numbers.
> This is called 'English Measure'. The ruler lays nice and flat against your work, as you work from left to right, which seems right to me. See below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The more common type - called 'American Measure' is reversed - the low numbers are on the outside, so you must use it from right to left. If you try to use the rule from left to right, the unfolded joints are underneath, and you can't lay the rule flat on your work - it either must hang off the edge of your work - which is not convenient if you are working inside a large piece of stock like ply, or you are forced to read the numbers from high to low, or, you must unfold the full length of the ruler and flip it over for it to lay flat - then the numbers are upside down! For the life of me, I still can't figure why that style is dominant - and the only one available most places now. Have you noticed how hard it is to find really high quality hand tools now?
> 
> You will notice in the picture below there are small holes drilled around the one inch mark in my rules. That serves two purposes; one is to hold the end in place with a nail when I am marking off multiple smaller increments without fear of shifting, and the other is I can use my rule to swing an arc of up to a 71" radius on occasion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The are things I do like about steel tapes, one being the little thingy on the end to clip on the edge of something to hold the end - but those are the first things to go too. And of course you can have steel tapes in almost any length is you don't mind the weight. Don't tell anybody, but I do have a couple lying around. Another thing to keep in mind about your favorite rulers - or tapes - if you love them, don't ever, ever loan them or let anyone use them, anytime, no time, ever, and most especially children, who are drawn to them like magnets!
> 
> The last time one of my grandchildren took a shine to my ruler, I went out and bought a brand new one just for him - American Measure of course since it was all I could find.


That is just how my father would fold his


----------



## jaykaypur

GnarlyErik said:


> *Measuring Things - Rulers Versus Tapes*
> 
> *"MORE THAN YOU EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT SIX-FOOT FOLDING RULES!"*
> 
> Most people today use a flexible metal tape for measurement, except for some old-timers. There are reasons for this besides stubborn intransigence - although that surely plays a part. First, most set-in-their-ways people like me suspect metal things are more affected by temperature than wooden things, which is correct. Steel thermally expands or contracts roughly three times as much as the wood in a ruler. For example, a six foot length of steel tape will expand or contract about 19/1000" with a 40 degree F temp change, and the change with wood is only 6/1000". Since that is less than a 1/64" difference, in practical terms, it makes no difference. Maybe in rocket science, but not in woodworking.
> 
> Another reason? Well, by golly, we JUST DON'T LIKE those flimsy, fluttery, noisy darned things, that's what! Face it, we DO stick with the things we are used to and like. And, that isn't anything new either, I recall as a young person in the boat shop, the old guys back then sneered at my shiny, new six foot folding rule, clinging stubbornly to their gnarly old two foot versions! And don't even dare bring a steel tape into the shop! Ah well, times change, and so does everything around us.
> 
> And, just for the record, I have a two foot folding rule too, because there are a few interesting things you can do with those you can't do with anything else so conveniently, if at all. More about that perhaps later in another post.
> 
> I have seen many an old-timer flick out their two foot rule in one motion, and have the saw set and in action before I got my six-footer out of my pocket. And, I'll bet you, man for man, I can do the same thing these days against the young guy with his noxious steel tape clipped to his belt. And just try shoving a bit of scrap out of the way on the other side of the bench with your wimpy tape! The fact is, we work best with the things we like and are familiar with. To me, there is very little warmth and friendliness in a sterile piece of metal compared to my friendly boxwood rule, with its nicks, patina, splatters, easy and familiar action, and even its smell - but then, that's just me, and trust me, don't try that kind of comparison with your wife, husband or significant other!
> 
> I've had a a couple of favorites now for close on to forty years if not longer. I've broken several over the years of course - rulers, not wives! And, I keep a spare or two around, because if you can't measure in a woodworking shop, you are shut down until you can. This brings me to my first point. A year ago I went off with my brother for a day to look at a boat for him. When he left, he drove off with one of my much-loved rulers in his car by accident - my fault. When I missed it, I called him - I said I loved it, didn't I? By that time, he had flown 5000 miles away and could not send it back. I told him not to bother, I'd just get another one - although the one I lost was so well seasoned and easy to use - I could flick it out and have it fully extended in about half a second, and I really hated to lose it. One thing about folding rulers is the more you use them the easier they operate, especially if the joints are kept oiled periodically. Eventually though, they can get too 'easy' and become sloppy - but just try getting a steel tape to hold up for forty years!
> 
> Problem was, no local supplier had the ruler model I had and preferred - a 'Master Mechanic' Inside Reading six foot folding ruler made of boxwood. Not the local hardware, not Lowe's, not Home Depot, no one! After a little research, I found the manufacturer no longer makes this model in boxwood. In plastic yes, but not for me - I'll pass on plastic, thank you. Besides, I strongly suspect those are made offshore now.
> 
> Then I got lucky, I thought. Lufkin still makes a boxwood model which looked exactly the same as mine in the pictures online - their model #066F. I ordered one and it came 'Made in the USA' right on the side. But it wasn't the same at all. Sure, inside reading, and all that, but it was different - thicker, bulky, heavier, klutzier. I practically hate it in fact, but kept it since it is the only spare I have now. Meanwhile, my brother has inherited my old rule and since he seems to like it, I don't have the heart to ask for it back. But, if I go visit him, I will take the new one and swap them out surreptitiously - he'll never notice the difference, will he?
> 
> Here is a picture of the old Master Mechanic versus the new Lufkin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now to my second point - why "Inside Reading"? Just in case you are not familiar with the difference in styles, inside reading means when you fold out part of your rule and lay it flat on your stock with the unfolded joints up towards you, you look at the numbers naturally reading from left to right, from low to high numbers.
> This is called 'English Measure'. The ruler lays nice and flat against your work, as you work from left to right, which seems right to me. See below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The more common type - called 'American Measure' is reversed - the low numbers are on the outside, so you must use it from right to left. If you try to use the rule from left to right, the unfolded joints are underneath, and you can't lay the rule flat on your work - it either must hang off the edge of your work - which is not convenient if you are working inside a large piece of stock like ply, or you are forced to read the numbers from high to low, or, you must unfold the full length of the ruler and flip it over for it to lay flat - then the numbers are upside down! For the life of me, I still can't figure why that style is dominant - and the only one available most places now. Have you noticed how hard it is to find really high quality hand tools now?
> 
> You will notice in the picture below there are small holes drilled around the one inch mark in my rules. That serves two purposes; one is to hold the end in place with a nail when I am marking off multiple smaller increments without fear of shifting, and the other is I can use my rule to swing an arc of up to a 71" radius on occasion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The are things I do like about steel tapes, one being the little thingy on the end to clip on the edge of something to hold the end - but those are the first things to go too. And of course you can have steel tapes in almost any length is you don't mind the weight. Don't tell anybody, but I do have a couple lying around. Another thing to keep in mind about your favorite rulers - or tapes - if you love them, don't ever, ever loan them or let anyone use them, anytime, no time, ever, and most especially children, who are drawn to them like magnets!
> 
> The last time one of my grandchildren took a shine to my ruler, I went out and bought a brand new one just for him - American Measure of course since it was all I could find.


Thanks for this. I often wondered about the genius' that designed the newer version you mentioned. LOL

After reading this, I am now on the hunt for one of the older ones.


----------



## hunter71

GnarlyErik said:


> *Measuring Things - Rulers Versus Tapes*
> 
> *"MORE THAN YOU EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT SIX-FOOT FOLDING RULES!"*
> 
> Most people today use a flexible metal tape for measurement, except for some old-timers. There are reasons for this besides stubborn intransigence - although that surely plays a part. First, most set-in-their-ways people like me suspect metal things are more affected by temperature than wooden things, which is correct. Steel thermally expands or contracts roughly three times as much as the wood in a ruler. For example, a six foot length of steel tape will expand or contract about 19/1000" with a 40 degree F temp change, and the change with wood is only 6/1000". Since that is less than a 1/64" difference, in practical terms, it makes no difference. Maybe in rocket science, but not in woodworking.
> 
> Another reason? Well, by golly, we JUST DON'T LIKE those flimsy, fluttery, noisy darned things, that's what! Face it, we DO stick with the things we are used to and like. And, that isn't anything new either, I recall as a young person in the boat shop, the old guys back then sneered at my shiny, new six foot folding rule, clinging stubbornly to their gnarly old two foot versions! And don't even dare bring a steel tape into the shop! Ah well, times change, and so does everything around us.
> 
> And, just for the record, I have a two foot folding rule too, because there are a few interesting things you can do with those you can't do with anything else so conveniently, if at all. More about that perhaps later in another post.
> 
> I have seen many an old-timer flick out their two foot rule in one motion, and have the saw set and in action before I got my six-footer out of my pocket. And, I'll bet you, man for man, I can do the same thing these days against the young guy with his noxious steel tape clipped to his belt. And just try shoving a bit of scrap out of the way on the other side of the bench with your wimpy tape! The fact is, we work best with the things we like and are familiar with. To me, there is very little warmth and friendliness in a sterile piece of metal compared to my friendly boxwood rule, with its nicks, patina, splatters, easy and familiar action, and even its smell - but then, that's just me, and trust me, don't try that kind of comparison with your wife, husband or significant other!
> 
> I've had a a couple of favorites now for close on to forty years if not longer. I've broken several over the years of course - rulers, not wives! And, I keep a spare or two around, because if you can't measure in a woodworking shop, you are shut down until you can. This brings me to my first point. A year ago I went off with my brother for a day to look at a boat for him. When he left, he drove off with one of my much-loved rulers in his car by accident - my fault. When I missed it, I called him - I said I loved it, didn't I? By that time, he had flown 5000 miles away and could not send it back. I told him not to bother, I'd just get another one - although the one I lost was so well seasoned and easy to use - I could flick it out and have it fully extended in about half a second, and I really hated to lose it. One thing about folding rulers is the more you use them the easier they operate, especially if the joints are kept oiled periodically. Eventually though, they can get too 'easy' and become sloppy - but just try getting a steel tape to hold up for forty years!
> 
> Problem was, no local supplier had the ruler model I had and preferred - a 'Master Mechanic' Inside Reading six foot folding ruler made of boxwood. Not the local hardware, not Lowe's, not Home Depot, no one! After a little research, I found the manufacturer no longer makes this model in boxwood. In plastic yes, but not for me - I'll pass on plastic, thank you. Besides, I strongly suspect those are made offshore now.
> 
> Then I got lucky, I thought. Lufkin still makes a boxwood model which looked exactly the same as mine in the pictures online - their model #066F. I ordered one and it came 'Made in the USA' right on the side. But it wasn't the same at all. Sure, inside reading, and all that, but it was different - thicker, bulky, heavier, klutzier. I practically hate it in fact, but kept it since it is the only spare I have now. Meanwhile, my brother has inherited my old rule and since he seems to like it, I don't have the heart to ask for it back. But, if I go visit him, I will take the new one and swap them out surreptitiously - he'll never notice the difference, will he?
> 
> Here is a picture of the old Master Mechanic versus the new Lufkin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now to my second point - why "Inside Reading"? Just in case you are not familiar with the difference in styles, inside reading means when you fold out part of your rule and lay it flat on your stock with the unfolded joints up towards you, you look at the numbers naturally reading from left to right, from low to high numbers.
> This is called 'English Measure'. The ruler lays nice and flat against your work, as you work from left to right, which seems right to me. See below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The more common type - called 'American Measure' is reversed - the low numbers are on the outside, so you must use it from right to left. If you try to use the rule from left to right, the unfolded joints are underneath, and you can't lay the rule flat on your work - it either must hang off the edge of your work - which is not convenient if you are working inside a large piece of stock like ply, or you are forced to read the numbers from high to low, or, you must unfold the full length of the ruler and flip it over for it to lay flat - then the numbers are upside down! For the life of me, I still can't figure why that style is dominant - and the only one available most places now. Have you noticed how hard it is to find really high quality hand tools now?
> 
> You will notice in the picture below there are small holes drilled around the one inch mark in my rules. That serves two purposes; one is to hold the end in place with a nail when I am marking off multiple smaller increments without fear of shifting, and the other is I can use my rule to swing an arc of up to a 71" radius on occasion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The are things I do like about steel tapes, one being the little thingy on the end to clip on the edge of something to hold the end - but those are the first things to go too. And of course you can have steel tapes in almost any length is you don't mind the weight. Don't tell anybody, but I do have a couple lying around. Another thing to keep in mind about your favorite rulers - or tapes - if you love them, don't ever, ever loan them or let anyone use them, anytime, no time, ever, and most especially children, who are drawn to them like magnets!
> 
> The last time one of my grandchildren took a shine to my ruler, I went out and bought a brand new one just for him - American Measure of course since it was all I could find.


I totally agree, as an apprentice electrician I was not allowed anything in my pouch other than a wood folding rule. Now with 30 years as a Master Electrician behind me I still use a wood folding rule in my shop.
Thanks for the insight into rulers.
Doug


----------



## GnarlyErik

*Measuring Things - The Two-Foot Folding Rule*

*"More Than You Ever Needed to Know about Two-Foot folding rules"*

Let me say up front that I am most familiar with the six-foot folding rule. That said, I will share with you some things I have learned about two-foot rules. Most common are those with four joints, known as 'Two-foot, Four-Fold Rules', and you can do many things with them.These were typically carried in a workman's shirt pocket, or in the side pocket on the right leg of most overalls of the time. There were also two-foot, six-fold rules made to make them even smaller to carry, but those never were as popular. Historically, most carpenters and woodworkers used the two-foot rule until the late 'forties and into the 'fifties when the six-foot folding rule gained favor. But, many old-timers from the 'forties and 'fifties and before favored them and continued to use them until they retired or died off. I'd imagine you will still find some in use today, but increasingly rarely. I own one, but don't use it much, mostly because I grew more familiar with the six-footer.









Working ends of American versus English measurements

Here are a couple things you can do with a two-footer that are hard or impossible to do with anything else:

First, you can lay out angles up to 90 degrees with a two-foot rule, without using math for those who find numbers difficult. Expert workmen had a few angles memorized, say 15, 20 and 30 degrees. Other angles could often be derived from those. You simply mark a straight line of a specific distance to represent the angle desired. You then open up the legs of the rule and placed one leg on each end of the line. The angle you need is made by the legs. For example, if you need 15 degrees, the measurement is 3-1/8", for 20 degrees it is 4-7/64", for 30 degrees it is 6-7/32" and so on. There actually used to be tables published with a complete list of measurements for all angles to 90 degrees and these might be tacked to the shop wall. (A far more convenient way used by most boat shops was a 'Bevel Board' with all angles needed scribed on it, and one simply needed to use a adjustable sliding tee bevel to pull off the required angle. See below)









You can download a printable version for your use here: http://shipwrightstyle.com/shipwright-style-quick-and-easy-bevel-board/

And, then there is the "3, 4, 5 rule" for right angles which most layout folks know. Simply put, a line 3 increments long has an arc of 4 increments swung from one end, and 5 increments from the other, and where the arcs intersect is the end of the leg forming a right angle with the "3" end. Conversely, you can start at the 4 increment leg and swing a 3 increment arc and get the same result. The sweet thing about this, is that any multiple works so long as the proportions remain the same. If you are unfamiliar with why this works, google the 'Pythagorean Theorem' online.

Another thing two-foot rules can be used for is to layout octagons for turning square stock into octagons, and then rounds. That is described in the blog entry "Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using them, Part Two" http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328

In fact, it is written two-foot rules once came with two extra symbols on them labeled "E" and "M", many years ago just for laying out octagons, but I do not know just how those worked. Perhaps they were at the 7" and 17" marks.

I am getting way off subject here, but there are several other kinds of 'Two-Foot Rules' which are interesting:

*In footbal*l, the Two-Foot Rule; "Two feet must come down within bounds to have possession of a passed ball";

*In bee-keeping*, the Less Than Two-Feet or More Than Two-Mile Rule; "When moving a bee hive, you must move it less than two feet, or more than two miles in order for the returning bees to re-locate it";

*With domesticated rabbits*, the Two-Foot Rule; "If you don't want it eaten, it must be more than two feet off the ground."

*The Open-Space Technology* Two-Foot Rule for meetings, symposiums and conferences: "If at any time during our time together you find yourself in any situation where you are neither learning nor contributing, use your two feet, go someplace else."

And, getting way far out there now, during the 1918 Influenza epidemic, Pasadena, CA passed an ordnance called the *'Two Foot Rule'*. It was only permissible to hold open air meetings in public places, so long as all attendees kept a distance of two feet apart! Apparently this rule was enforced and people were cited for non-compliance. There was a run on two-foot rules wherever they were sold! You just can't make this kind of stuff up!

For anyone who is interested in owning a two-foot rule, new ones can still be bought made by the Robert Larson Co. You can also find them on eBay in all manner of condition. And, if you want a really nice one made the old way, and your checking account can stand it, you can find antiques in remarkably good conditions sometimes. Here are a few sources:

Liberty Tools, Maine - http://www.libertytoolco.com/
Rose Antique Tools - http://www.shop.roseantiquetools.net/
Tool exchange - Australia. - http://toolexchange.com.au/ (this one is in Australia, but will ship to the US and has a good reputation)


----------



## jap

GnarlyErik said:


> *Measuring Things - The Two-Foot Folding Rule*
> 
> *"More Than You Ever Needed to Know about Two-Foot folding rules"*
> 
> Let me say up front that I am most familiar with the six-foot folding rule. That said, I will share with you some things I have learned about two-foot rules. Most common are those with four joints, known as 'Two-foot, Four-Fold Rules', and you can do many things with them.These were typically carried in a workman's shirt pocket, or in the side pocket on the right leg of most overalls of the time. There were also two-foot, six-fold rules made to make them even smaller to carry, but those never were as popular. Historically, most carpenters and woodworkers used the two-foot rule until the late 'forties and into the 'fifties when the six-foot folding rule gained favor. But, many old-timers from the 'forties and 'fifties and before favored them and continued to use them until they retired or died off. I'd imagine you will still find some in use today, but increasingly rarely. I own one, but don't use it much, mostly because I grew more familiar with the six-footer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Working ends of American versus English measurements
> 
> Here are a couple things you can do with a two-footer that are hard or impossible to do with anything else:
> 
> First, you can lay out angles up to 90 degrees with a two-foot rule, without using math for those who find numbers difficult. Expert workmen had a few angles memorized, say 15, 20 and 30 degrees. Other angles could often be derived from those. You simply mark a straight line of a specific distance to represent the angle desired. You then open up the legs of the rule and placed one leg on each end of the line. The angle you need is made by the legs. For example, if you need 15 degrees, the measurement is 3-1/8", for 20 degrees it is 4-7/64", for 30 degrees it is 6-7/32" and so on. There actually used to be tables published with a complete list of measurements for all angles to 90 degrees and these might be tacked to the shop wall. (A far more convenient way used by most boat shops was a 'Bevel Board' with all angles needed scribed on it, and one simply needed to use a adjustable sliding tee bevel to pull off the required angle. See below)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can download a printable version for your use here: http://shipwrightstyle.com/shipwright-style-quick-and-easy-bevel-board/
> 
> And, then there is the "3, 4, 5 rule" for right angles which most layout folks know. Simply put, a line 3 increments long has an arc of 4 increments swung from one end, and 5 increments from the other, and where the arcs intersect is the end of the leg forming a right angle with the "3" end. Conversely, you can start at the 4 increment leg and swing a 3 increment arc and get the same result. The sweet thing about this, is that any multiple works so long as the proportions remain the same. If you are unfamiliar with why this works, google the 'Pythagorean Theorem' online.
> 
> Another thing two-foot rules can be used for is to layout octagons for turning square stock into octagons, and then rounds. That is described in the blog entry "Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using them, Part Two" http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328
> 
> In fact, it is written two-foot rules once came with two extra symbols on them labeled "E" and "M", many years ago just for laying out octagons, but I do not know just how those worked. Perhaps they were at the 7" and 17" marks.
> 
> I am getting way off subject here, but there are several other kinds of 'Two-Foot Rules' which are interesting:
> 
> *In footbal*l, the Two-Foot Rule; "Two feet must come down within bounds to have possession of a passed ball";
> 
> *In bee-keeping*, the Less Than Two-Feet or More Than Two-Mile Rule; "When moving a bee hive, you must move it less than two feet, or more than two miles in order for the returning bees to re-locate it";
> 
> *With domesticated rabbits*, the Two-Foot Rule; "If you don't want it eaten, it must be more than two feet off the ground."
> 
> *The Open-Space Technology* Two-Foot Rule for meetings, symposiums and conferences: "If at any time during our time together you find yourself in any situation where you are neither learning nor contributing, use your two feet, go someplace else."
> 
> And, getting way far out there now, during the 1918 Influenza epidemic, Pasadena, CA passed an ordnance called the *'Two Foot Rule'*. It was only permissible to hold open air meetings in public places, so long as all attendees kept a distance of two feet apart! Apparently this rule was enforced and people were cited for non-compliance. There was a run on two-foot rules wherever they were sold! You just can't make this kind of stuff up!
> 
> For anyone who is interested in owning a two-foot rule, new ones can still be bought made by the Robert Larson Co. You can also find them on eBay in all manner of condition. And, if you want a really nice one made the old way, and your checking account can stand it, you can find antiques in remarkably good conditions sometimes. Here are a few sources:
> 
> Liberty Tools, Maine - http://www.libertytoolco.com/
> Rose Antique Tools - http://www.shop.roseantiquetools.net/
> Tool exchange - Australia. - http://toolexchange.com.au/ (this one is in Australia, but will ship to the US and has a good reputation)


thanks for the link to print the bevel board


----------



## HillbillyShooter

GnarlyErik said:


> *Measuring Things - The Two-Foot Folding Rule*
> 
> *"More Than You Ever Needed to Know about Two-Foot folding rules"*
> 
> Let me say up front that I am most familiar with the six-foot folding rule. That said, I will share with you some things I have learned about two-foot rules. Most common are those with four joints, known as 'Two-foot, Four-Fold Rules', and you can do many things with them.These were typically carried in a workman's shirt pocket, or in the side pocket on the right leg of most overalls of the time. There were also two-foot, six-fold rules made to make them even smaller to carry, but those never were as popular. Historically, most carpenters and woodworkers used the two-foot rule until the late 'forties and into the 'fifties when the six-foot folding rule gained favor. But, many old-timers from the 'forties and 'fifties and before favored them and continued to use them until they retired or died off. I'd imagine you will still find some in use today, but increasingly rarely. I own one, but don't use it much, mostly because I grew more familiar with the six-footer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Working ends of American versus English measurements
> 
> Here are a couple things you can do with a two-footer that are hard or impossible to do with anything else:
> 
> First, you can lay out angles up to 90 degrees with a two-foot rule, without using math for those who find numbers difficult. Expert workmen had a few angles memorized, say 15, 20 and 30 degrees. Other angles could often be derived from those. You simply mark a straight line of a specific distance to represent the angle desired. You then open up the legs of the rule and placed one leg on each end of the line. The angle you need is made by the legs. For example, if you need 15 degrees, the measurement is 3-1/8", for 20 degrees it is 4-7/64", for 30 degrees it is 6-7/32" and so on. There actually used to be tables published with a complete list of measurements for all angles to 90 degrees and these might be tacked to the shop wall. (A far more convenient way used by most boat shops was a 'Bevel Board' with all angles needed scribed on it, and one simply needed to use a adjustable sliding tee bevel to pull off the required angle. See below)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can download a printable version for your use here: http://shipwrightstyle.com/shipwright-style-quick-and-easy-bevel-board/
> 
> And, then there is the "3, 4, 5 rule" for right angles which most layout folks know. Simply put, a line 3 increments long has an arc of 4 increments swung from one end, and 5 increments from the other, and where the arcs intersect is the end of the leg forming a right angle with the "3" end. Conversely, you can start at the 4 increment leg and swing a 3 increment arc and get the same result. The sweet thing about this, is that any multiple works so long as the proportions remain the same. If you are unfamiliar with why this works, google the 'Pythagorean Theorem' online.
> 
> Another thing two-foot rules can be used for is to layout octagons for turning square stock into octagons, and then rounds. That is described in the blog entry "Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using them, Part Two" http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328
> 
> In fact, it is written two-foot rules once came with two extra symbols on them labeled "E" and "M", many years ago just for laying out octagons, but I do not know just how those worked. Perhaps they were at the 7" and 17" marks.
> 
> I am getting way off subject here, but there are several other kinds of 'Two-Foot Rules' which are interesting:
> 
> *In footbal*l, the Two-Foot Rule; "Two feet must come down within bounds to have possession of a passed ball";
> 
> *In bee-keeping*, the Less Than Two-Feet or More Than Two-Mile Rule; "When moving a bee hive, you must move it less than two feet, or more than two miles in order for the returning bees to re-locate it";
> 
> *With domesticated rabbits*, the Two-Foot Rule; "If you don't want it eaten, it must be more than two feet off the ground."
> 
> *The Open-Space Technology* Two-Foot Rule for meetings, symposiums and conferences: "If at any time during our time together you find yourself in any situation where you are neither learning nor contributing, use your two feet, go someplace else."
> 
> And, getting way far out there now, during the 1918 Influenza epidemic, Pasadena, CA passed an ordnance called the *'Two Foot Rule'*. It was only permissible to hold open air meetings in public places, so long as all attendees kept a distance of two feet apart! Apparently this rule was enforced and people were cited for non-compliance. There was a run on two-foot rules wherever they were sold! You just can't make this kind of stuff up!
> 
> For anyone who is interested in owning a two-foot rule, new ones can still be bought made by the Robert Larson Co. You can also find them on eBay in all manner of condition. And, if you want a really nice one made the old way, and your checking account can stand it, you can find antiques in remarkably good conditions sometimes. Here are a few sources:
> 
> Liberty Tools, Maine - http://www.libertytoolco.com/
> Rose Antique Tools - http://www.shop.roseantiquetools.net/
> Tool exchange - Australia. - http://toolexchange.com.au/ (this one is in Australia, but will ship to the US and has a good reputation)


Thanks for an informative blog-good information to know, if nothing more than a historical interest.


----------



## Boatman53

GnarlyErik said:


> *Measuring Things - The Two-Foot Folding Rule*
> 
> *"More Than You Ever Needed to Know about Two-Foot folding rules"*
> 
> Let me say up front that I am most familiar with the six-foot folding rule. That said, I will share with you some things I have learned about two-foot rules. Most common are those with four joints, known as 'Two-foot, Four-Fold Rules', and you can do many things with them.These were typically carried in a workman's shirt pocket, or in the side pocket on the right leg of most overalls of the time. There were also two-foot, six-fold rules made to make them even smaller to carry, but those never were as popular. Historically, most carpenters and woodworkers used the two-foot rule until the late 'forties and into the 'fifties when the six-foot folding rule gained favor. But, many old-timers from the 'forties and 'fifties and before favored them and continued to use them until they retired or died off. I'd imagine you will still find some in use today, but increasingly rarely. I own one, but don't use it much, mostly because I grew more familiar with the six-footer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Working ends of American versus English measurements
> 
> Here are a couple things you can do with a two-footer that are hard or impossible to do with anything else:
> 
> First, you can lay out angles up to 90 degrees with a two-foot rule, without using math for those who find numbers difficult. Expert workmen had a few angles memorized, say 15, 20 and 30 degrees. Other angles could often be derived from those. You simply mark a straight line of a specific distance to represent the angle desired. You then open up the legs of the rule and placed one leg on each end of the line. The angle you need is made by the legs. For example, if you need 15 degrees, the measurement is 3-1/8", for 20 degrees it is 4-7/64", for 30 degrees it is 6-7/32" and so on. There actually used to be tables published with a complete list of measurements for all angles to 90 degrees and these might be tacked to the shop wall. (A far more convenient way used by most boat shops was a 'Bevel Board' with all angles needed scribed on it, and one simply needed to use a adjustable sliding tee bevel to pull off the required angle. See below)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can download a printable version for your use here: http://shipwrightstyle.com/shipwright-style-quick-and-easy-bevel-board/
> 
> And, then there is the "3, 4, 5 rule" for right angles which most layout folks know. Simply put, a line 3 increments long has an arc of 4 increments swung from one end, and 5 increments from the other, and where the arcs intersect is the end of the leg forming a right angle with the "3" end. Conversely, you can start at the 4 increment leg and swing a 3 increment arc and get the same result. The sweet thing about this, is that any multiple works so long as the proportions remain the same. If you are unfamiliar with why this works, google the 'Pythagorean Theorem' online.
> 
> Another thing two-foot rules can be used for is to layout octagons for turning square stock into octagons, and then rounds. That is described in the blog entry "Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using them, Part Two" http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328
> 
> In fact, it is written two-foot rules once came with two extra symbols on them labeled "E" and "M", many years ago just for laying out octagons, but I do not know just how those worked. Perhaps they were at the 7" and 17" marks.
> 
> I am getting way off subject here, but there are several other kinds of 'Two-Foot Rules' which are interesting:
> 
> *In footbal*l, the Two-Foot Rule; "Two feet must come down within bounds to have possession of a passed ball";
> 
> *In bee-keeping*, the Less Than Two-Feet or More Than Two-Mile Rule; "When moving a bee hive, you must move it less than two feet, or more than two miles in order for the returning bees to re-locate it";
> 
> *With domesticated rabbits*, the Two-Foot Rule; "If you don't want it eaten, it must be more than two feet off the ground."
> 
> *The Open-Space Technology* Two-Foot Rule for meetings, symposiums and conferences: "If at any time during our time together you find yourself in any situation where you are neither learning nor contributing, use your two feet, go someplace else."
> 
> And, getting way far out there now, during the 1918 Influenza epidemic, Pasadena, CA passed an ordnance called the *'Two Foot Rule'*. It was only permissible to hold open air meetings in public places, so long as all attendees kept a distance of two feet apart! Apparently this rule was enforced and people were cited for non-compliance. There was a run on two-foot rules wherever they were sold! You just can't make this kind of stuff up!
> 
> For anyone who is interested in owning a two-foot rule, new ones can still be bought made by the Robert Larson Co. You can also find them on eBay in all manner of condition. And, if you want a really nice one made the old way, and your checking account can stand it, you can find antiques in remarkably good conditions sometimes. Here are a few sources:
> 
> Liberty Tools, Maine - http://www.libertytoolco.com/
> Rose Antique Tools - http://www.shop.roseantiquetools.net/
> Tool exchange - Australia. - http://toolexchange.com.au/ (this one is in Australia, but will ship to the US and has a good reputation)


Hi Eric, thought this might add to the post. The distance is the distance between to the two opened legs.








Sorry I don't know how to resize the photo, it actually shows all the way to 90 degrees.


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Measuring Things - The Two-Foot Folding Rule*
> 
> *"More Than You Ever Needed to Know about Two-Foot folding rules"*
> 
> Let me say up front that I am most familiar with the six-foot folding rule. That said, I will share with you some things I have learned about two-foot rules. Most common are those with four joints, known as 'Two-foot, Four-Fold Rules', and you can do many things with them.These were typically carried in a workman's shirt pocket, or in the side pocket on the right leg of most overalls of the time. There were also two-foot, six-fold rules made to make them even smaller to carry, but those never were as popular. Historically, most carpenters and woodworkers used the two-foot rule until the late 'forties and into the 'fifties when the six-foot folding rule gained favor. But, many old-timers from the 'forties and 'fifties and before favored them and continued to use them until they retired or died off. I'd imagine you will still find some in use today, but increasingly rarely. I own one, but don't use it much, mostly because I grew more familiar with the six-footer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Working ends of American versus English measurements
> 
> Here are a couple things you can do with a two-footer that are hard or impossible to do with anything else:
> 
> First, you can lay out angles up to 90 degrees with a two-foot rule, without using math for those who find numbers difficult. Expert workmen had a few angles memorized, say 15, 20 and 30 degrees. Other angles could often be derived from those. You simply mark a straight line of a specific distance to represent the angle desired. You then open up the legs of the rule and placed one leg on each end of the line. The angle you need is made by the legs. For example, if you need 15 degrees, the measurement is 3-1/8", for 20 degrees it is 4-7/64", for 30 degrees it is 6-7/32" and so on. There actually used to be tables published with a complete list of measurements for all angles to 90 degrees and these might be tacked to the shop wall. (A far more convenient way used by most boat shops was a 'Bevel Board' with all angles needed scribed on it, and one simply needed to use a adjustable sliding tee bevel to pull off the required angle. See below)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can download a printable version for your use here: http://shipwrightstyle.com/shipwright-style-quick-and-easy-bevel-board/
> 
> And, then there is the "3, 4, 5 rule" for right angles which most layout folks know. Simply put, a line 3 increments long has an arc of 4 increments swung from one end, and 5 increments from the other, and where the arcs intersect is the end of the leg forming a right angle with the "3" end. Conversely, you can start at the 4 increment leg and swing a 3 increment arc and get the same result. The sweet thing about this, is that any multiple works so long as the proportions remain the same. If you are unfamiliar with why this works, google the 'Pythagorean Theorem' online.
> 
> Another thing two-foot rules can be used for is to layout octagons for turning square stock into octagons, and then rounds. That is described in the blog entry "Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using them, Part Two" http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328
> 
> In fact, it is written two-foot rules once came with two extra symbols on them labeled "E" and "M", many years ago just for laying out octagons, but I do not know just how those worked. Perhaps they were at the 7" and 17" marks.
> 
> I am getting way off subject here, but there are several other kinds of 'Two-Foot Rules' which are interesting:
> 
> *In footbal*l, the Two-Foot Rule; "Two feet must come down within bounds to have possession of a passed ball";
> 
> *In bee-keeping*, the Less Than Two-Feet or More Than Two-Mile Rule; "When moving a bee hive, you must move it less than two feet, or more than two miles in order for the returning bees to re-locate it";
> 
> *With domesticated rabbits*, the Two-Foot Rule; "If you don't want it eaten, it must be more than two feet off the ground."
> 
> *The Open-Space Technology* Two-Foot Rule for meetings, symposiums and conferences: "If at any time during our time together you find yourself in any situation where you are neither learning nor contributing, use your two feet, go someplace else."
> 
> And, getting way far out there now, during the 1918 Influenza epidemic, Pasadena, CA passed an ordnance called the *'Two Foot Rule'*. It was only permissible to hold open air meetings in public places, so long as all attendees kept a distance of two feet apart! Apparently this rule was enforced and people were cited for non-compliance. There was a run on two-foot rules wherever they were sold! You just can't make this kind of stuff up!
> 
> For anyone who is interested in owning a two-foot rule, new ones can still be bought made by the Robert Larson Co. You can also find them on eBay in all manner of condition. And, if you want a really nice one made the old way, and your checking account can stand it, you can find antiques in remarkably good conditions sometimes. Here are a few sources:
> 
> Liberty Tools, Maine - http://www.libertytoolco.com/
> Rose Antique Tools - http://www.shop.roseantiquetools.net/
> Tool exchange - Australia. - http://toolexchange.com.au/ (this one is in Australia, but will ship to the US and has a good reputation)


Yes Jim, this is like the one tacked to the shop wall, except having the decimals converted into inch fractions. Thanks!

Erik


----------



## Boatman53

GnarlyErik said:


> *Measuring Things - The Two-Foot Folding Rule*
> 
> *"More Than You Ever Needed to Know about Two-Foot folding rules"*
> 
> Let me say up front that I am most familiar with the six-foot folding rule. That said, I will share with you some things I have learned about two-foot rules. Most common are those with four joints, known as 'Two-foot, Four-Fold Rules', and you can do many things with them.These were typically carried in a workman's shirt pocket, or in the side pocket on the right leg of most overalls of the time. There were also two-foot, six-fold rules made to make them even smaller to carry, but those never were as popular. Historically, most carpenters and woodworkers used the two-foot rule until the late 'forties and into the 'fifties when the six-foot folding rule gained favor. But, many old-timers from the 'forties and 'fifties and before favored them and continued to use them until they retired or died off. I'd imagine you will still find some in use today, but increasingly rarely. I own one, but don't use it much, mostly because I grew more familiar with the six-footer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Working ends of American versus English measurements
> 
> Here are a couple things you can do with a two-footer that are hard or impossible to do with anything else:
> 
> First, you can lay out angles up to 90 degrees with a two-foot rule, without using math for those who find numbers difficult. Expert workmen had a few angles memorized, say 15, 20 and 30 degrees. Other angles could often be derived from those. You simply mark a straight line of a specific distance to represent the angle desired. You then open up the legs of the rule and placed one leg on each end of the line. The angle you need is made by the legs. For example, if you need 15 degrees, the measurement is 3-1/8", for 20 degrees it is 4-7/64", for 30 degrees it is 6-7/32" and so on. There actually used to be tables published with a complete list of measurements for all angles to 90 degrees and these might be tacked to the shop wall. (A far more convenient way used by most boat shops was a 'Bevel Board' with all angles needed scribed on it, and one simply needed to use a adjustable sliding tee bevel to pull off the required angle. See below)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can download a printable version for your use here: http://shipwrightstyle.com/shipwright-style-quick-and-easy-bevel-board/
> 
> And, then there is the "3, 4, 5 rule" for right angles which most layout folks know. Simply put, a line 3 increments long has an arc of 4 increments swung from one end, and 5 increments from the other, and where the arcs intersect is the end of the leg forming a right angle with the "3" end. Conversely, you can start at the 4 increment leg and swing a 3 increment arc and get the same result. The sweet thing about this, is that any multiple works so long as the proportions remain the same. If you are unfamiliar with why this works, google the 'Pythagorean Theorem' online.
> 
> Another thing two-foot rules can be used for is to layout octagons for turning square stock into octagons, and then rounds. That is described in the blog entry "Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using them, Part Two" http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328
> 
> In fact, it is written two-foot rules once came with two extra symbols on them labeled "E" and "M", many years ago just for laying out octagons, but I do not know just how those worked. Perhaps they were at the 7" and 17" marks.
> 
> I am getting way off subject here, but there are several other kinds of 'Two-Foot Rules' which are interesting:
> 
> *In footbal*l, the Two-Foot Rule; "Two feet must come down within bounds to have possession of a passed ball";
> 
> *In bee-keeping*, the Less Than Two-Feet or More Than Two-Mile Rule; "When moving a bee hive, you must move it less than two feet, or more than two miles in order for the returning bees to re-locate it";
> 
> *With domesticated rabbits*, the Two-Foot Rule; "If you don't want it eaten, it must be more than two feet off the ground."
> 
> *The Open-Space Technology* Two-Foot Rule for meetings, symposiums and conferences: "If at any time during our time together you find yourself in any situation where you are neither learning nor contributing, use your two feet, go someplace else."
> 
> And, getting way far out there now, during the 1918 Influenza epidemic, Pasadena, CA passed an ordnance called the *'Two Foot Rule'*. It was only permissible to hold open air meetings in public places, so long as all attendees kept a distance of two feet apart! Apparently this rule was enforced and people were cited for non-compliance. There was a run on two-foot rules wherever they were sold! You just can't make this kind of stuff up!
> 
> For anyone who is interested in owning a two-foot rule, new ones can still be bought made by the Robert Larson Co. You can also find them on eBay in all manner of condition. And, if you want a really nice one made the old way, and your checking account can stand it, you can find antiques in remarkably good conditions sometimes. Here are a few sources:
> 
> Liberty Tools, Maine - http://www.libertytoolco.com/
> Rose Antique Tools - http://www.shop.roseantiquetools.net/
> Tool exchange - Australia. - http://toolexchange.com.au/ (this one is in Australia, but will ship to the US and has a good reputation)


Your welcome.


----------



## lightweightladylefty

GnarlyErik said:


> *Measuring Things - The Two-Foot Folding Rule*
> 
> *"More Than You Ever Needed to Know about Two-Foot folding rules"*
> 
> Let me say up front that I am most familiar with the six-foot folding rule. That said, I will share with you some things I have learned about two-foot rules. Most common are those with four joints, known as 'Two-foot, Four-Fold Rules', and you can do many things with them.These were typically carried in a workman's shirt pocket, or in the side pocket on the right leg of most overalls of the time. There were also two-foot, six-fold rules made to make them even smaller to carry, but those never were as popular. Historically, most carpenters and woodworkers used the two-foot rule until the late 'forties and into the 'fifties when the six-foot folding rule gained favor. But, many old-timers from the 'forties and 'fifties and before favored them and continued to use them until they retired or died off. I'd imagine you will still find some in use today, but increasingly rarely. I own one, but don't use it much, mostly because I grew more familiar with the six-footer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Working ends of American versus English measurements
> 
> Here are a couple things you can do with a two-footer that are hard or impossible to do with anything else:
> 
> First, you can lay out angles up to 90 degrees with a two-foot rule, without using math for those who find numbers difficult. Expert workmen had a few angles memorized, say 15, 20 and 30 degrees. Other angles could often be derived from those. You simply mark a straight line of a specific distance to represent the angle desired. You then open up the legs of the rule and placed one leg on each end of the line. The angle you need is made by the legs. For example, if you need 15 degrees, the measurement is 3-1/8", for 20 degrees it is 4-7/64", for 30 degrees it is 6-7/32" and so on. There actually used to be tables published with a complete list of measurements for all angles to 90 degrees and these might be tacked to the shop wall. (A far more convenient way used by most boat shops was a 'Bevel Board' with all angles needed scribed on it, and one simply needed to use a adjustable sliding tee bevel to pull off the required angle. See below)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can download a printable version for your use here: http://shipwrightstyle.com/shipwright-style-quick-and-easy-bevel-board/
> 
> And, then there is the "3, 4, 5 rule" for right angles which most layout folks know. Simply put, a line 3 increments long has an arc of 4 increments swung from one end, and 5 increments from the other, and where the arcs intersect is the end of the leg forming a right angle with the "3" end. Conversely, you can start at the 4 increment leg and swing a 3 increment arc and get the same result. The sweet thing about this, is that any multiple works so long as the proportions remain the same. If you are unfamiliar with why this works, google the 'Pythagorean Theorem' online.
> 
> Another thing two-foot rules can be used for is to layout octagons for turning square stock into octagons, and then rounds. That is described in the blog entry "Centerlines - Finding, Marking and Using them, Part Two" http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328
> 
> In fact, it is written two-foot rules once came with two extra symbols on them labeled "E" and "M", many years ago just for laying out octagons, but I do not know just how those worked. Perhaps they were at the 7" and 17" marks.
> 
> I am getting way off subject here, but there are several other kinds of 'Two-Foot Rules' which are interesting:
> 
> *In footbal*l, the Two-Foot Rule; "Two feet must come down within bounds to have possession of a passed ball";
> 
> *In bee-keeping*, the Less Than Two-Feet or More Than Two-Mile Rule; "When moving a bee hive, you must move it less than two feet, or more than two miles in order for the returning bees to re-locate it";
> 
> *With domesticated rabbits*, the Two-Foot Rule; "If you don't want it eaten, it must be more than two feet off the ground."
> 
> *The Open-Space Technology* Two-Foot Rule for meetings, symposiums and conferences: "If at any time during our time together you find yourself in any situation where you are neither learning nor contributing, use your two feet, go someplace else."
> 
> And, getting way far out there now, during the 1918 Influenza epidemic, Pasadena, CA passed an ordnance called the *'Two Foot Rule'*. It was only permissible to hold open air meetings in public places, so long as all attendees kept a distance of two feet apart! Apparently this rule was enforced and people were cited for non-compliance. There was a run on two-foot rules wherever they were sold! You just can't make this kind of stuff up!
> 
> For anyone who is interested in owning a two-foot rule, new ones can still be bought made by the Robert Larson Co. You can also find them on eBay in all manner of condition. And, if you want a really nice one made the old way, and your checking account can stand it, you can find antiques in remarkably good conditions sometimes. Here are a few sources:
> 
> Liberty Tools, Maine - http://www.libertytoolco.com/
> Rose Antique Tools - http://www.shop.roseantiquetools.net/
> Tool exchange - Australia. - http://toolexchange.com.au/ (this one is in Australia, but will ship to the US and has a good reputation)


Erik,

You're a storehouse of information! Thanks for sharing. I look forward to what I might learn from you each day.

L/W


----------



## GnarlyErik

*Laying out irregular areas and surfaces*

*The "Tickle Stick"*
Here's a layout tip for boat work, and it comes in handy for other things too. This technique is used to accurately pick up the edges of irregularly shaped areas or surfaces and transfer them to the material to be cut. The original purpose was in taking off (measuring) bulkheads to fit accurately against a curved boat hull. The idea can also be used laying out a seat for a bay window, a countertop notched around obstructions, chair bottoms and other things. The technique can be used vertically, horizontally, and all in between.









This is a small Tickle Stick I often use in small areas or sections

These little tools have been called 'jiggle sticks', 'joggle sticks', 'tickle sticks' and other things too. In concept it is a bit like the small profiler tool you can buy for fitting things against curved and notched moldings. But it is a much bigger, and more versatile version, and can be made on the spot if need be for the job at hand. We will call these 'tickle sticks' for this blog entry.

The tickle stick itself is a deliberately irregularly shaped tool made from thin stock, like 1/8" or 1/4" ply, or other stiff material. I have a number of these made from thin oak, ash, or mahogany pieces which were remnant drop offs from resawing something, and in a range of sizes from about 6" to nearly 4 feet long - mostly used for laying out boat bulkheads. The main requirements are to have them relatively thin, straight and stiff. It helps to have one long edge straight to help in aligning things when in use. The other edge is tapered with a number of irregular 'saw teeth' cut into it, each of which is numbered or lettered on both sides to match. The tip should be slender to reach into tight spots.









My 'set' of well-used Tickle Sticks!

Here is how they are used:

1. A length of temporary layout material (sometimes called a 'story board') is clamped, or otherwise secured in the *same plane* as the part you intend to make. The layout material should be wide enough - at least 6" - to enable you to make plentiful marks on it. If the intended part will have a straight side, try to align one edge of the layout material where that should be, or a set distance parallel to it;

2. The tickle stick is held firmly or clamped (spring clamps work great) to the face of the layout material so that its tip is in contact with a point on the material which you plan to fit to. It will sometimes be necessary to flip the tickle stick over to reach into a hard to reach spot, and the reason for marking on both sides. BE SURE to mark along the straight edge side, to help in later alignments;

3. Carefully and closely mark the straightedge side of the tickle stick, and several of the notches on the tapered side with your pencil. Remove the tickle stick and label the 'teeth' to match the tickle stick;

4. Do this the number of times needed to accurately mark everything you need. Check before you remove your layout material to be sure you have enough marks, to enough points;









Showing how the Tickle Stick is used in laying out a horizontal window box seat (left), and vertical, curving boat bulkhead to fit against the hull side (right). Sufficient points are 'tickled off'on the story board to provide enough information for transfer to the stock to be cut. Sometimes marks will fall over an earlier mark, but because of the alignment it is easy to keep them in the right relationship;

5. Remove the story board and lay it on the material you need to cut, aligning the straight edge with the edge of your stock, or compensating for any offset. Check at the ends and edges to make sure you have sufficient stock to go beyond the furtherest reaches of the tickle stick at its extremes. Clamp or tack the layout material securely to your stock;

6. Now, take the tickle stick and lay it precisely in the same places you have marked on the story board, and either clamp it down, or place something heavy on it so it does not shift while you mark where the tip end is on your stock. If your layout material has much thickness, it is best to use a tri-square to square down from the tip of the tickle stick to your stock;

7. It is now time to 'connect the dots' as they say, which should provide a very accurate fit when everything is cut.










I hope you can use this little trick!

ADDENDUM - some people were a little confused by my graphic, so I will try to straighten things out here. The idea is to use the *SAME* tickle stick on a single layout in a number of different locations as needed. The only time it may be necessary to use more than one stick for a layout is if the region being measured is so different in size from one part to another that a single stick will not reach.


----------



## HillbillyShooter

GnarlyErik said:


> *Laying out irregular areas and surfaces*
> 
> *The "Tickle Stick"*
> Here's a layout tip for boat work, and it comes in handy for other things too. This technique is used to accurately pick up the edges of irregularly shaped areas or surfaces and transfer them to the material to be cut. The original purpose was in taking off (measuring) bulkheads to fit accurately against a curved boat hull. The idea can also be used laying out a seat for a bay window, a countertop notched around obstructions, chair bottoms and other things. The technique can be used vertically, horizontally, and all in between.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a small Tickle Stick I often use in small areas or sections
> 
> These little tools have been called 'jiggle sticks', 'joggle sticks', 'tickle sticks' and other things too. In concept it is a bit like the small profiler tool you can buy for fitting things against curved and notched moldings. But it is a much bigger, and more versatile version, and can be made on the spot if need be for the job at hand. We will call these 'tickle sticks' for this blog entry.
> 
> The tickle stick itself is a deliberately irregularly shaped tool made from thin stock, like 1/8" or 1/4" ply, or other stiff material. I have a number of these made from thin oak, ash, or mahogany pieces which were remnant drop offs from resawing something, and in a range of sizes from about 6" to nearly 4 feet long - mostly used for laying out boat bulkheads. The main requirements are to have them relatively thin, straight and stiff. It helps to have one long edge straight to help in aligning things when in use. The other edge is tapered with a number of irregular 'saw teeth' cut into it, each of which is numbered or lettered on both sides to match. The tip should be slender to reach into tight spots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My 'set' of well-used Tickle Sticks!
> 
> Here is how they are used:
> 
> 1. A length of temporary layout material (sometimes called a 'story board') is clamped, or otherwise secured in the *same plane* as the part you intend to make. The layout material should be wide enough - at least 6" - to enable you to make plentiful marks on it. If the intended part will have a straight side, try to align one edge of the layout material where that should be, or a set distance parallel to it;
> 
> 2. The tickle stick is held firmly or clamped (spring clamps work great) to the face of the layout material so that its tip is in contact with a point on the material which you plan to fit to. It will sometimes be necessary to flip the tickle stick over to reach into a hard to reach spot, and the reason for marking on both sides. BE SURE to mark along the straight edge side, to help in later alignments;
> 
> 3. Carefully and closely mark the straightedge side of the tickle stick, and several of the notches on the tapered side with your pencil. Remove the tickle stick and label the 'teeth' to match the tickle stick;
> 
> 4. Do this the number of times needed to accurately mark everything you need. Check before you remove your layout material to be sure you have enough marks, to enough points;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Showing how the Tickle Stick is used in laying out a horizontal window box seat (left), and vertical, curving boat bulkhead to fit against the hull side (right). Sufficient points are 'tickled off'on the story board to provide enough information for transfer to the stock to be cut. Sometimes marks will fall over an earlier mark, but because of the alignment it is easy to keep them in the right relationship;
> 
> 5. Remove the story board and lay it on the material you need to cut, aligning the straight edge with the edge of your stock, or compensating for any offset. Check at the ends and edges to make sure you have sufficient stock to go beyond the furtherest reaches of the tickle stick at its extremes. Clamp or tack the layout material securely to your stock;
> 
> 6. Now, take the tickle stick and lay it precisely in the same places you have marked on the story board, and either clamp it down, or place something heavy on it so it does not shift while you mark where the tip end is on your stock. If your layout material has much thickness, it is best to use a tri-square to square down from the tip of the tickle stick to your stock;
> 
> 7. It is now time to 'connect the dots' as they say, which should provide a very accurate fit when everything is cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you can use this little trick!
> 
> ADDENDUM - some people were a little confused by my graphic, so I will try to straighten things out here. The idea is to use the *SAME* tickle stick on a single layout in a number of different locations as needed. The only time it may be necessary to use more than one stick for a layout is if the region being measured is so different in size from one part to another that a single stick will not reach.


This is really cool-thanks again for sharing your knowledge. I'm going to have to study this some more when things quiet down.


----------



## DIYaholic

GnarlyErik said:


> *Laying out irregular areas and surfaces*
> 
> *The "Tickle Stick"*
> Here's a layout tip for boat work, and it comes in handy for other things too. This technique is used to accurately pick up the edges of irregularly shaped areas or surfaces and transfer them to the material to be cut. The original purpose was in taking off (measuring) bulkheads to fit accurately against a curved boat hull. The idea can also be used laying out a seat for a bay window, a countertop notched around obstructions, chair bottoms and other things. The technique can be used vertically, horizontally, and all in between.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a small Tickle Stick I often use in small areas or sections
> 
> These little tools have been called 'jiggle sticks', 'joggle sticks', 'tickle sticks' and other things too. In concept it is a bit like the small profiler tool you can buy for fitting things against curved and notched moldings. But it is a much bigger, and more versatile version, and can be made on the spot if need be for the job at hand. We will call these 'tickle sticks' for this blog entry.
> 
> The tickle stick itself is a deliberately irregularly shaped tool made from thin stock, like 1/8" or 1/4" ply, or other stiff material. I have a number of these made from thin oak, ash, or mahogany pieces which were remnant drop offs from resawing something, and in a range of sizes from about 6" to nearly 4 feet long - mostly used for laying out boat bulkheads. The main requirements are to have them relatively thin, straight and stiff. It helps to have one long edge straight to help in aligning things when in use. The other edge is tapered with a number of irregular 'saw teeth' cut into it, each of which is numbered or lettered on both sides to match. The tip should be slender to reach into tight spots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My 'set' of well-used Tickle Sticks!
> 
> Here is how they are used:
> 
> 1. A length of temporary layout material (sometimes called a 'story board') is clamped, or otherwise secured in the *same plane* as the part you intend to make. The layout material should be wide enough - at least 6" - to enable you to make plentiful marks on it. If the intended part will have a straight side, try to align one edge of the layout material where that should be, or a set distance parallel to it;
> 
> 2. The tickle stick is held firmly or clamped (spring clamps work great) to the face of the layout material so that its tip is in contact with a point on the material which you plan to fit to. It will sometimes be necessary to flip the tickle stick over to reach into a hard to reach spot, and the reason for marking on both sides. BE SURE to mark along the straight edge side, to help in later alignments;
> 
> 3. Carefully and closely mark the straightedge side of the tickle stick, and several of the notches on the tapered side with your pencil. Remove the tickle stick and label the 'teeth' to match the tickle stick;
> 
> 4. Do this the number of times needed to accurately mark everything you need. Check before you remove your layout material to be sure you have enough marks, to enough points;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Showing how the Tickle Stick is used in laying out a horizontal window box seat (left), and vertical, curving boat bulkhead to fit against the hull side (right). Sufficient points are 'tickled off'on the story board to provide enough information for transfer to the stock to be cut. Sometimes marks will fall over an earlier mark, but because of the alignment it is easy to keep them in the right relationship;
> 
> 5. Remove the story board and lay it on the material you need to cut, aligning the straight edge with the edge of your stock, or compensating for any offset. Check at the ends and edges to make sure you have sufficient stock to go beyond the furtherest reaches of the tickle stick at its extremes. Clamp or tack the layout material securely to your stock;
> 
> 6. Now, take the tickle stick and lay it precisely in the same places you have marked on the story board, and either clamp it down, or place something heavy on it so it does not shift while you mark where the tip end is on your stock. If your layout material has much thickness, it is best to use a tri-square to square down from the tip of the tickle stick to your stock;
> 
> 7. It is now time to 'connect the dots' as they say, which should provide a very accurate fit when everything is cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you can use this little trick!
> 
> ADDENDUM - some people were a little confused by my graphic, so I will try to straighten things out here. The idea is to use the *SAME* tickle stick on a single layout in a number of different locations as needed. The only time it may be necessary to use more than one stick for a layout is if the region being measured is so different in size from one part to another that a single stick will not reach.


Another unique and innovative way to "measure" & layout. Keep 'em coming!

Thanks.


----------



## oluf

GnarlyErik said:


> *Laying out irregular areas and surfaces*
> 
> *The "Tickle Stick"*
> Here's a layout tip for boat work, and it comes in handy for other things too. This technique is used to accurately pick up the edges of irregularly shaped areas or surfaces and transfer them to the material to be cut. The original purpose was in taking off (measuring) bulkheads to fit accurately against a curved boat hull. The idea can also be used laying out a seat for a bay window, a countertop notched around obstructions, chair bottoms and other things. The technique can be used vertically, horizontally, and all in between.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a small Tickle Stick I often use in small areas or sections
> 
> These little tools have been called 'jiggle sticks', 'joggle sticks', 'tickle sticks' and other things too. In concept it is a bit like the small profiler tool you can buy for fitting things against curved and notched moldings. But it is a much bigger, and more versatile version, and can be made on the spot if need be for the job at hand. We will call these 'tickle sticks' for this blog entry.
> 
> The tickle stick itself is a deliberately irregularly shaped tool made from thin stock, like 1/8" or 1/4" ply, or other stiff material. I have a number of these made from thin oak, ash, or mahogany pieces which were remnant drop offs from resawing something, and in a range of sizes from about 6" to nearly 4 feet long - mostly used for laying out boat bulkheads. The main requirements are to have them relatively thin, straight and stiff. It helps to have one long edge straight to help in aligning things when in use. The other edge is tapered with a number of irregular 'saw teeth' cut into it, each of which is numbered or lettered on both sides to match. The tip should be slender to reach into tight spots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My 'set' of well-used Tickle Sticks!
> 
> Here is how they are used:
> 
> 1. A length of temporary layout material (sometimes called a 'story board') is clamped, or otherwise secured in the *same plane* as the part you intend to make. The layout material should be wide enough - at least 6" - to enable you to make plentiful marks on it. If the intended part will have a straight side, try to align one edge of the layout material where that should be, or a set distance parallel to it;
> 
> 2. The tickle stick is held firmly or clamped (spring clamps work great) to the face of the layout material so that its tip is in contact with a point on the material which you plan to fit to. It will sometimes be necessary to flip the tickle stick over to reach into a hard to reach spot, and the reason for marking on both sides. BE SURE to mark along the straight edge side, to help in later alignments;
> 
> 3. Carefully and closely mark the straightedge side of the tickle stick, and several of the notches on the tapered side with your pencil. Remove the tickle stick and label the 'teeth' to match the tickle stick;
> 
> 4. Do this the number of times needed to accurately mark everything you need. Check before you remove your layout material to be sure you have enough marks, to enough points;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Showing how the Tickle Stick is used in laying out a horizontal window box seat (left), and vertical, curving boat bulkhead to fit against the hull side (right). Sufficient points are 'tickled off'on the story board to provide enough information for transfer to the stock to be cut. Sometimes marks will fall over an earlier mark, but because of the alignment it is easy to keep them in the right relationship;
> 
> 5. Remove the story board and lay it on the material you need to cut, aligning the straight edge with the edge of your stock, or compensating for any offset. Check at the ends and edges to make sure you have sufficient stock to go beyond the furtherest reaches of the tickle stick at its extremes. Clamp or tack the layout material securely to your stock;
> 
> 6. Now, take the tickle stick and lay it precisely in the same places you have marked on the story board, and either clamp it down, or place something heavy on it so it does not shift while you mark where the tip end is on your stock. If your layout material has much thickness, it is best to use a tri-square to square down from the tip of the tickle stick to your stock;
> 
> 7. It is now time to 'connect the dots' as they say, which should provide a very accurate fit when everything is cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you can use this little trick!
> 
> ADDENDUM - some people were a little confused by my graphic, so I will try to straighten things out here. The idea is to use the *SAME* tickle stick on a single layout in a number of different locations as needed. The only time it may be necessary to use more than one stick for a layout is if the region being measured is so different in size from one part to another that a single stick will not reach.


If you had to use more than one tickle stick ( longer or shorter) for a lay-out would you than assign identifiers to each set of marks? I wish I had known about this years ago when I converted an old school bus into a camper. Now you tell me! Nils


----------



## Boatman53

GnarlyErik said:


> *Laying out irregular areas and surfaces*
> 
> *The "Tickle Stick"*
> Here's a layout tip for boat work, and it comes in handy for other things too. This technique is used to accurately pick up the edges of irregularly shaped areas or surfaces and transfer them to the material to be cut. The original purpose was in taking off (measuring) bulkheads to fit accurately against a curved boat hull. The idea can also be used laying out a seat for a bay window, a countertop notched around obstructions, chair bottoms and other things. The technique can be used vertically, horizontally, and all in between.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a small Tickle Stick I often use in small areas or sections
> 
> These little tools have been called 'jiggle sticks', 'joggle sticks', 'tickle sticks' and other things too. In concept it is a bit like the small profiler tool you can buy for fitting things against curved and notched moldings. But it is a much bigger, and more versatile version, and can be made on the spot if need be for the job at hand. We will call these 'tickle sticks' for this blog entry.
> 
> The tickle stick itself is a deliberately irregularly shaped tool made from thin stock, like 1/8" or 1/4" ply, or other stiff material. I have a number of these made from thin oak, ash, or mahogany pieces which were remnant drop offs from resawing something, and in a range of sizes from about 6" to nearly 4 feet long - mostly used for laying out boat bulkheads. The main requirements are to have them relatively thin, straight and stiff. It helps to have one long edge straight to help in aligning things when in use. The other edge is tapered with a number of irregular 'saw teeth' cut into it, each of which is numbered or lettered on both sides to match. The tip should be slender to reach into tight spots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My 'set' of well-used Tickle Sticks!
> 
> Here is how they are used:
> 
> 1. A length of temporary layout material (sometimes called a 'story board') is clamped, or otherwise secured in the *same plane* as the part you intend to make. The layout material should be wide enough - at least 6" - to enable you to make plentiful marks on it. If the intended part will have a straight side, try to align one edge of the layout material where that should be, or a set distance parallel to it;
> 
> 2. The tickle stick is held firmly or clamped (spring clamps work great) to the face of the layout material so that its tip is in contact with a point on the material which you plan to fit to. It will sometimes be necessary to flip the tickle stick over to reach into a hard to reach spot, and the reason for marking on both sides. BE SURE to mark along the straight edge side, to help in later alignments;
> 
> 3. Carefully and closely mark the straightedge side of the tickle stick, and several of the notches on the tapered side with your pencil. Remove the tickle stick and label the 'teeth' to match the tickle stick;
> 
> 4. Do this the number of times needed to accurately mark everything you need. Check before you remove your layout material to be sure you have enough marks, to enough points;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Showing how the Tickle Stick is used in laying out a horizontal window box seat (left), and vertical, curving boat bulkhead to fit against the hull side (right). Sufficient points are 'tickled off'on the story board to provide enough information for transfer to the stock to be cut. Sometimes marks will fall over an earlier mark, but because of the alignment it is easy to keep them in the right relationship;
> 
> 5. Remove the story board and lay it on the material you need to cut, aligning the straight edge with the edge of your stock, or compensating for any offset. Check at the ends and edges to make sure you have sufficient stock to go beyond the furtherest reaches of the tickle stick at its extremes. Clamp or tack the layout material securely to your stock;
> 
> 6. Now, take the tickle stick and lay it precisely in the same places you have marked on the story board, and either clamp it down, or place something heavy on it so it does not shift while you mark where the tip end is on your stock. If your layout material has much thickness, it is best to use a tri-square to square down from the tip of the tickle stick to your stock;
> 
> 7. It is now time to 'connect the dots' as they say, which should provide a very accurate fit when everything is cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you can use this little trick!
> 
> ADDENDUM - some people were a little confused by my graphic, so I will try to straighten things out here. The idea is to use the *SAME* tickle stick on a single layout in a number of different locations as needed. The only time it may be necessary to use more than one stick for a layout is if the region being measured is so different in size from one part to another that a single stick will not reach.


Hi Eric, another great post. I made mine out of 1/8" aluminum. One about 6" and the other is I'm guessing about 12" but I almost never use that one. I usual can rough cut 1/8" pattern ply close enough to accommodate the short stick.
Jim


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Laying out irregular areas and surfaces*
> 
> *The "Tickle Stick"*
> Here's a layout tip for boat work, and it comes in handy for other things too. This technique is used to accurately pick up the edges of irregularly shaped areas or surfaces and transfer them to the material to be cut. The original purpose was in taking off (measuring) bulkheads to fit accurately against a curved boat hull. The idea can also be used laying out a seat for a bay window, a countertop notched around obstructions, chair bottoms and other things. The technique can be used vertically, horizontally, and all in between.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a small Tickle Stick I often use in small areas or sections
> 
> These little tools have been called 'jiggle sticks', 'joggle sticks', 'tickle sticks' and other things too. In concept it is a bit like the small profiler tool you can buy for fitting things against curved and notched moldings. But it is a much bigger, and more versatile version, and can be made on the spot if need be for the job at hand. We will call these 'tickle sticks' for this blog entry.
> 
> The tickle stick itself is a deliberately irregularly shaped tool made from thin stock, like 1/8" or 1/4" ply, or other stiff material. I have a number of these made from thin oak, ash, or mahogany pieces which were remnant drop offs from resawing something, and in a range of sizes from about 6" to nearly 4 feet long - mostly used for laying out boat bulkheads. The main requirements are to have them relatively thin, straight and stiff. It helps to have one long edge straight to help in aligning things when in use. The other edge is tapered with a number of irregular 'saw teeth' cut into it, each of which is numbered or lettered on both sides to match. The tip should be slender to reach into tight spots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My 'set' of well-used Tickle Sticks!
> 
> Here is how they are used:
> 
> 1. A length of temporary layout material (sometimes called a 'story board') is clamped, or otherwise secured in the *same plane* as the part you intend to make. The layout material should be wide enough - at least 6" - to enable you to make plentiful marks on it. If the intended part will have a straight side, try to align one edge of the layout material where that should be, or a set distance parallel to it;
> 
> 2. The tickle stick is held firmly or clamped (spring clamps work great) to the face of the layout material so that its tip is in contact with a point on the material which you plan to fit to. It will sometimes be necessary to flip the tickle stick over to reach into a hard to reach spot, and the reason for marking on both sides. BE SURE to mark along the straight edge side, to help in later alignments;
> 
> 3. Carefully and closely mark the straightedge side of the tickle stick, and several of the notches on the tapered side with your pencil. Remove the tickle stick and label the 'teeth' to match the tickle stick;
> 
> 4. Do this the number of times needed to accurately mark everything you need. Check before you remove your layout material to be sure you have enough marks, to enough points;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Showing how the Tickle Stick is used in laying out a horizontal window box seat (left), and vertical, curving boat bulkhead to fit against the hull side (right). Sufficient points are 'tickled off'on the story board to provide enough information for transfer to the stock to be cut. Sometimes marks will fall over an earlier mark, but because of the alignment it is easy to keep them in the right relationship;
> 
> 5. Remove the story board and lay it on the material you need to cut, aligning the straight edge with the edge of your stock, or compensating for any offset. Check at the ends and edges to make sure you have sufficient stock to go beyond the furtherest reaches of the tickle stick at its extremes. Clamp or tack the layout material securely to your stock;
> 
> 6. Now, take the tickle stick and lay it precisely in the same places you have marked on the story board, and either clamp it down, or place something heavy on it so it does not shift while you mark where the tip end is on your stock. If your layout material has much thickness, it is best to use a tri-square to square down from the tip of the tickle stick to your stock;
> 
> 7. It is now time to 'connect the dots' as they say, which should provide a very accurate fit when everything is cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you can use this little trick!
> 
> ADDENDUM - some people were a little confused by my graphic, so I will try to straighten things out here. The idea is to use the *SAME* tickle stick on a single layout in a number of different locations as needed. The only time it may be necessary to use more than one stick for a layout is if the region being measured is so different in size from one part to another that a single stick will not reach.


Yes Nils, I use a letter for each different tickler stick - but it's usually not a problem anyway since they are all different and you notice right away if things don't seem to fit.


----------



## shipwright

GnarlyErik said:


> *Laying out irregular areas and surfaces*
> 
> *The "Tickle Stick"*
> Here's a layout tip for boat work, and it comes in handy for other things too. This technique is used to accurately pick up the edges of irregularly shaped areas or surfaces and transfer them to the material to be cut. The original purpose was in taking off (measuring) bulkheads to fit accurately against a curved boat hull. The idea can also be used laying out a seat for a bay window, a countertop notched around obstructions, chair bottoms and other things. The technique can be used vertically, horizontally, and all in between.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a small Tickle Stick I often use in small areas or sections
> 
> These little tools have been called 'jiggle sticks', 'joggle sticks', 'tickle sticks' and other things too. In concept it is a bit like the small profiler tool you can buy for fitting things against curved and notched moldings. But it is a much bigger, and more versatile version, and can be made on the spot if need be for the job at hand. We will call these 'tickle sticks' for this blog entry.
> 
> The tickle stick itself is a deliberately irregularly shaped tool made from thin stock, like 1/8" or 1/4" ply, or other stiff material. I have a number of these made from thin oak, ash, or mahogany pieces which were remnant drop offs from resawing something, and in a range of sizes from about 6" to nearly 4 feet long - mostly used for laying out boat bulkheads. The main requirements are to have them relatively thin, straight and stiff. It helps to have one long edge straight to help in aligning things when in use. The other edge is tapered with a number of irregular 'saw teeth' cut into it, each of which is numbered or lettered on both sides to match. The tip should be slender to reach into tight spots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My 'set' of well-used Tickle Sticks!
> 
> Here is how they are used:
> 
> 1. A length of temporary layout material (sometimes called a 'story board') is clamped, or otherwise secured in the *same plane* as the part you intend to make. The layout material should be wide enough - at least 6" - to enable you to make plentiful marks on it. If the intended part will have a straight side, try to align one edge of the layout material where that should be, or a set distance parallel to it;
> 
> 2. The tickle stick is held firmly or clamped (spring clamps work great) to the face of the layout material so that its tip is in contact with a point on the material which you plan to fit to. It will sometimes be necessary to flip the tickle stick over to reach into a hard to reach spot, and the reason for marking on both sides. BE SURE to mark along the straight edge side, to help in later alignments;
> 
> 3. Carefully and closely mark the straightedge side of the tickle stick, and several of the notches on the tapered side with your pencil. Remove the tickle stick and label the 'teeth' to match the tickle stick;
> 
> 4. Do this the number of times needed to accurately mark everything you need. Check before you remove your layout material to be sure you have enough marks, to enough points;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Showing how the Tickle Stick is used in laying out a horizontal window box seat (left), and vertical, curving boat bulkhead to fit against the hull side (right). Sufficient points are 'tickled off'on the story board to provide enough information for transfer to the stock to be cut. Sometimes marks will fall over an earlier mark, but because of the alignment it is easy to keep them in the right relationship;
> 
> 5. Remove the story board and lay it on the material you need to cut, aligning the straight edge with the edge of your stock, or compensating for any offset. Check at the ends and edges to make sure you have sufficient stock to go beyond the furtherest reaches of the tickle stick at its extremes. Clamp or tack the layout material securely to your stock;
> 
> 6. Now, take the tickle stick and lay it precisely in the same places you have marked on the story board, and either clamp it down, or place something heavy on it so it does not shift while you mark where the tip end is on your stock. If your layout material has much thickness, it is best to use a tri-square to square down from the tip of the tickle stick to your stock;
> 
> 7. It is now time to 'connect the dots' as they say, which should provide a very accurate fit when everything is cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you can use this little trick!
> 
> ADDENDUM - some people were a little confused by my graphic, so I will try to straighten things out here. The idea is to use the *SAME* tickle stick on a single layout in a number of different locations as needed. The only time it may be necessary to use more than one stick for a layout is if the region being measured is so different in size from one part to another that a single stick will not reach.


Nice one Eric. 
I hadn't seen this one until now but it certainly looks like it would get the job done.
Keep them coming.


----------



## a1Jim

GnarlyErik said:


> *Laying out irregular areas and surfaces*
> 
> *The "Tickle Stick"*
> Here's a layout tip for boat work, and it comes in handy for other things too. This technique is used to accurately pick up the edges of irregularly shaped areas or surfaces and transfer them to the material to be cut. The original purpose was in taking off (measuring) bulkheads to fit accurately against a curved boat hull. The idea can also be used laying out a seat for a bay window, a countertop notched around obstructions, chair bottoms and other things. The technique can be used vertically, horizontally, and all in between.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a small Tickle Stick I often use in small areas or sections
> 
> These little tools have been called 'jiggle sticks', 'joggle sticks', 'tickle sticks' and other things too. In concept it is a bit like the small profiler tool you can buy for fitting things against curved and notched moldings. But it is a much bigger, and more versatile version, and can be made on the spot if need be for the job at hand. We will call these 'tickle sticks' for this blog entry.
> 
> The tickle stick itself is a deliberately irregularly shaped tool made from thin stock, like 1/8" or 1/4" ply, or other stiff material. I have a number of these made from thin oak, ash, or mahogany pieces which were remnant drop offs from resawing something, and in a range of sizes from about 6" to nearly 4 feet long - mostly used for laying out boat bulkheads. The main requirements are to have them relatively thin, straight and stiff. It helps to have one long edge straight to help in aligning things when in use. The other edge is tapered with a number of irregular 'saw teeth' cut into it, each of which is numbered or lettered on both sides to match. The tip should be slender to reach into tight spots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My 'set' of well-used Tickle Sticks!
> 
> Here is how they are used:
> 
> 1. A length of temporary layout material (sometimes called a 'story board') is clamped, or otherwise secured in the *same plane* as the part you intend to make. The layout material should be wide enough - at least 6" - to enable you to make plentiful marks on it. If the intended part will have a straight side, try to align one edge of the layout material where that should be, or a set distance parallel to it;
> 
> 2. The tickle stick is held firmly or clamped (spring clamps work great) to the face of the layout material so that its tip is in contact with a point on the material which you plan to fit to. It will sometimes be necessary to flip the tickle stick over to reach into a hard to reach spot, and the reason for marking on both sides. BE SURE to mark along the straight edge side, to help in later alignments;
> 
> 3. Carefully and closely mark the straightedge side of the tickle stick, and several of the notches on the tapered side with your pencil. Remove the tickle stick and label the 'teeth' to match the tickle stick;
> 
> 4. Do this the number of times needed to accurately mark everything you need. Check before you remove your layout material to be sure you have enough marks, to enough points;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Showing how the Tickle Stick is used in laying out a horizontal window box seat (left), and vertical, curving boat bulkhead to fit against the hull side (right). Sufficient points are 'tickled off'on the story board to provide enough information for transfer to the stock to be cut. Sometimes marks will fall over an earlier mark, but because of the alignment it is easy to keep them in the right relationship;
> 
> 5. Remove the story board and lay it on the material you need to cut, aligning the straight edge with the edge of your stock, or compensating for any offset. Check at the ends and edges to make sure you have sufficient stock to go beyond the furtherest reaches of the tickle stick at its extremes. Clamp or tack the layout material securely to your stock;
> 
> 6. Now, take the tickle stick and lay it precisely in the same places you have marked on the story board, and either clamp it down, or place something heavy on it so it does not shift while you mark where the tip end is on your stock. If your layout material has much thickness, it is best to use a tri-square to square down from the tip of the tickle stick to your stock;
> 
> 7. It is now time to 'connect the dots' as they say, which should provide a very accurate fit when everything is cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you can use this little trick!
> 
> ADDENDUM - some people were a little confused by my graphic, so I will try to straighten things out here. The idea is to use the *SAME* tickle stick on a single layout in a number of different locations as needed. The only time it may be necessary to use more than one stick for a layout is if the region being measured is so different in size from one part to another that a single stick will not reach.


A very good tip thanks for sharing you vast knowledge .


----------



## Sylvain

GnarlyErik said:


> *Laying out irregular areas and surfaces*
> 
> *The "Tickle Stick"*
> Here's a layout tip for boat work, and it comes in handy for other things too. This technique is used to accurately pick up the edges of irregularly shaped areas or surfaces and transfer them to the material to be cut. The original purpose was in taking off (measuring) bulkheads to fit accurately against a curved boat hull. The idea can also be used laying out a seat for a bay window, a countertop notched around obstructions, chair bottoms and other things. The technique can be used vertically, horizontally, and all in between.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a small Tickle Stick I often use in small areas or sections
> 
> These little tools have been called 'jiggle sticks', 'joggle sticks', 'tickle sticks' and other things too. In concept it is a bit like the small profiler tool you can buy for fitting things against curved and notched moldings. But it is a much bigger, and more versatile version, and can be made on the spot if need be for the job at hand. We will call these 'tickle sticks' for this blog entry.
> 
> The tickle stick itself is a deliberately irregularly shaped tool made from thin stock, like 1/8" or 1/4" ply, or other stiff material. I have a number of these made from thin oak, ash, or mahogany pieces which were remnant drop offs from resawing something, and in a range of sizes from about 6" to nearly 4 feet long - mostly used for laying out boat bulkheads. The main requirements are to have them relatively thin, straight and stiff. It helps to have one long edge straight to help in aligning things when in use. The other edge is tapered with a number of irregular 'saw teeth' cut into it, each of which is numbered or lettered on both sides to match. The tip should be slender to reach into tight spots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My 'set' of well-used Tickle Sticks!
> 
> Here is how they are used:
> 
> 1. A length of temporary layout material (sometimes called a 'story board') is clamped, or otherwise secured in the *same plane* as the part you intend to make. The layout material should be wide enough - at least 6" - to enable you to make plentiful marks on it. If the intended part will have a straight side, try to align one edge of the layout material where that should be, or a set distance parallel to it;
> 
> 2. The tickle stick is held firmly or clamped (spring clamps work great) to the face of the layout material so that its tip is in contact with a point on the material which you plan to fit to. It will sometimes be necessary to flip the tickle stick over to reach into a hard to reach spot, and the reason for marking on both sides. BE SURE to mark along the straight edge side, to help in later alignments;
> 
> 3. Carefully and closely mark the straightedge side of the tickle stick, and several of the notches on the tapered side with your pencil. Remove the tickle stick and label the 'teeth' to match the tickle stick;
> 
> 4. Do this the number of times needed to accurately mark everything you need. Check before you remove your layout material to be sure you have enough marks, to enough points;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Showing how the Tickle Stick is used in laying out a horizontal window box seat (left), and vertical, curving boat bulkhead to fit against the hull side (right). Sufficient points are 'tickled off'on the story board to provide enough information for transfer to the stock to be cut. Sometimes marks will fall over an earlier mark, but because of the alignment it is easy to keep them in the right relationship;
> 
> 5. Remove the story board and lay it on the material you need to cut, aligning the straight edge with the edge of your stock, or compensating for any offset. Check at the ends and edges to make sure you have sufficient stock to go beyond the furtherest reaches of the tickle stick at its extremes. Clamp or tack the layout material securely to your stock;
> 
> 6. Now, take the tickle stick and lay it precisely in the same places you have marked on the story board, and either clamp it down, or place something heavy on it so it does not shift while you mark where the tip end is on your stock. If your layout material has much thickness, it is best to use a tri-square to square down from the tip of the tickle stick to your stock;
> 
> 7. It is now time to 'connect the dots' as they say, which should provide a very accurate fit when everything is cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you can use this little trick!
> 
> ADDENDUM - some people were a little confused by my graphic, so I will try to straighten things out here. The idea is to use the *SAME* tickle stick on a single layout in a number of different locations as needed. The only time it may be necessary to use more than one stick for a layout is if the region being measured is so different in size from one part to another that a single stick will not reach.


I really like this serie.
Very informative.


----------



## stefang

GnarlyErik said:


> *Laying out irregular areas and surfaces*
> 
> *The "Tickle Stick"*
> Here's a layout tip for boat work, and it comes in handy for other things too. This technique is used to accurately pick up the edges of irregularly shaped areas or surfaces and transfer them to the material to be cut. The original purpose was in taking off (measuring) bulkheads to fit accurately against a curved boat hull. The idea can also be used laying out a seat for a bay window, a countertop notched around obstructions, chair bottoms and other things. The technique can be used vertically, horizontally, and all in between.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a small Tickle Stick I often use in small areas or sections
> 
> These little tools have been called 'jiggle sticks', 'joggle sticks', 'tickle sticks' and other things too. In concept it is a bit like the small profiler tool you can buy for fitting things against curved and notched moldings. But it is a much bigger, and more versatile version, and can be made on the spot if need be for the job at hand. We will call these 'tickle sticks' for this blog entry.
> 
> The tickle stick itself is a deliberately irregularly shaped tool made from thin stock, like 1/8" or 1/4" ply, or other stiff material. I have a number of these made from thin oak, ash, or mahogany pieces which were remnant drop offs from resawing something, and in a range of sizes from about 6" to nearly 4 feet long - mostly used for laying out boat bulkheads. The main requirements are to have them relatively thin, straight and stiff. It helps to have one long edge straight to help in aligning things when in use. The other edge is tapered with a number of irregular 'saw teeth' cut into it, each of which is numbered or lettered on both sides to match. The tip should be slender to reach into tight spots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My 'set' of well-used Tickle Sticks!
> 
> Here is how they are used:
> 
> 1. A length of temporary layout material (sometimes called a 'story board') is clamped, or otherwise secured in the *same plane* as the part you intend to make. The layout material should be wide enough - at least 6" - to enable you to make plentiful marks on it. If the intended part will have a straight side, try to align one edge of the layout material where that should be, or a set distance parallel to it;
> 
> 2. The tickle stick is held firmly or clamped (spring clamps work great) to the face of the layout material so that its tip is in contact with a point on the material which you plan to fit to. It will sometimes be necessary to flip the tickle stick over to reach into a hard to reach spot, and the reason for marking on both sides. BE SURE to mark along the straight edge side, to help in later alignments;
> 
> 3. Carefully and closely mark the straightedge side of the tickle stick, and several of the notches on the tapered side with your pencil. Remove the tickle stick and label the 'teeth' to match the tickle stick;
> 
> 4. Do this the number of times needed to accurately mark everything you need. Check before you remove your layout material to be sure you have enough marks, to enough points;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Showing how the Tickle Stick is used in laying out a horizontal window box seat (left), and vertical, curving boat bulkhead to fit against the hull side (right). Sufficient points are 'tickled off'on the story board to provide enough information for transfer to the stock to be cut. Sometimes marks will fall over an earlier mark, but because of the alignment it is easy to keep them in the right relationship;
> 
> 5. Remove the story board and lay it on the material you need to cut, aligning the straight edge with the edge of your stock, or compensating for any offset. Check at the ends and edges to make sure you have sufficient stock to go beyond the furtherest reaches of the tickle stick at its extremes. Clamp or tack the layout material securely to your stock;
> 
> 6. Now, take the tickle stick and lay it precisely in the same places you have marked on the story board, and either clamp it down, or place something heavy on it so it does not shift while you mark where the tip end is on your stock. If your layout material has much thickness, it is best to use a tri-square to square down from the tip of the tickle stick to your stock;
> 
> 7. It is now time to 'connect the dots' as they say, which should provide a very accurate fit when everything is cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you can use this little trick!
> 
> ADDENDUM - some people were a little confused by my graphic, so I will try to straighten things out here. The idea is to use the *SAME* tickle stick on a single layout in a number of different locations as needed. The only time it may be necessary to use more than one stick for a layout is if the region being measured is so different in size from one part to another that a single stick will not reach.


Thanks for this good tip Erik! I would have liked to see the sticks in place for marking onto the workpiece, but after reading it a couple of times I finally got the idea. It is always interesting to learn about techniques that are a very practical solutions to what could be very complicated problems otherwise.


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Laying out irregular areas and surfaces*
> 
> *The "Tickle Stick"*
> Here's a layout tip for boat work, and it comes in handy for other things too. This technique is used to accurately pick up the edges of irregularly shaped areas or surfaces and transfer them to the material to be cut. The original purpose was in taking off (measuring) bulkheads to fit accurately against a curved boat hull. The idea can also be used laying out a seat for a bay window, a countertop notched around obstructions, chair bottoms and other things. The technique can be used vertically, horizontally, and all in between.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a small Tickle Stick I often use in small areas or sections
> 
> These little tools have been called 'jiggle sticks', 'joggle sticks', 'tickle sticks' and other things too. In concept it is a bit like the small profiler tool you can buy for fitting things against curved and notched moldings. But it is a much bigger, and more versatile version, and can be made on the spot if need be for the job at hand. We will call these 'tickle sticks' for this blog entry.
> 
> The tickle stick itself is a deliberately irregularly shaped tool made from thin stock, like 1/8" or 1/4" ply, or other stiff material. I have a number of these made from thin oak, ash, or mahogany pieces which were remnant drop offs from resawing something, and in a range of sizes from about 6" to nearly 4 feet long - mostly used for laying out boat bulkheads. The main requirements are to have them relatively thin, straight and stiff. It helps to have one long edge straight to help in aligning things when in use. The other edge is tapered with a number of irregular 'saw teeth' cut into it, each of which is numbered or lettered on both sides to match. The tip should be slender to reach into tight spots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My 'set' of well-used Tickle Sticks!
> 
> Here is how they are used:
> 
> 1. A length of temporary layout material (sometimes called a 'story board') is clamped, or otherwise secured in the *same plane* as the part you intend to make. The layout material should be wide enough - at least 6" - to enable you to make plentiful marks on it. If the intended part will have a straight side, try to align one edge of the layout material where that should be, or a set distance parallel to it;
> 
> 2. The tickle stick is held firmly or clamped (spring clamps work great) to the face of the layout material so that its tip is in contact with a point on the material which you plan to fit to. It will sometimes be necessary to flip the tickle stick over to reach into a hard to reach spot, and the reason for marking on both sides. BE SURE to mark along the straight edge side, to help in later alignments;
> 
> 3. Carefully and closely mark the straightedge side of the tickle stick, and several of the notches on the tapered side with your pencil. Remove the tickle stick and label the 'teeth' to match the tickle stick;
> 
> 4. Do this the number of times needed to accurately mark everything you need. Check before you remove your layout material to be sure you have enough marks, to enough points;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Showing how the Tickle Stick is used in laying out a horizontal window box seat (left), and vertical, curving boat bulkhead to fit against the hull side (right). Sufficient points are 'tickled off'on the story board to provide enough information for transfer to the stock to be cut. Sometimes marks will fall over an earlier mark, but because of the alignment it is easy to keep them in the right relationship;
> 
> 5. Remove the story board and lay it on the material you need to cut, aligning the straight edge with the edge of your stock, or compensating for any offset. Check at the ends and edges to make sure you have sufficient stock to go beyond the furtherest reaches of the tickle stick at its extremes. Clamp or tack the layout material securely to your stock;
> 
> 6. Now, take the tickle stick and lay it precisely in the same places you have marked on the story board, and either clamp it down, or place something heavy on it so it does not shift while you mark where the tip end is on your stock. If your layout material has much thickness, it is best to use a tri-square to square down from the tip of the tickle stick to your stock;
> 
> 7. It is now time to 'connect the dots' as they say, which should provide a very accurate fit when everything is cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you can use this little trick!
> 
> ADDENDUM - some people were a little confused by my graphic, so I will try to straighten things out here. The idea is to use the *SAME* tickle stick on a single layout in a number of different locations as needed. The only time it may be necessary to use more than one stick for a layout is if the region being measured is so different in size from one part to another that a single stick will not reach.


ADDENDUM - some people were a little confused by my graphic, so I will try to straighten things out here. The idea is to use the *SAME* tickle stick on a single layout in a number of different locations as needed. The only time it may be necessary to use more than one stick for a layout is if the region being measured is so different in size from one part to another that a single stick will not reach.


----------



## GnarlyErik

*Preventing End Grain splitting*

You are faced with end grain splitting or tearing out when working some woods. Most woodworkers know to clamp a piece of waste stock hard up against the material being worked to prevent this when planing across end grain. But what about those times when you are simply sanding or doing some other operation on end grain?

Some materials have a bad tendency to tear out slivers at the ends of narrow stock, such as a chair or table leg. Sometimes simply sliding a wooden chair leg across the floor - especially if the floor is textured, can tear out a sliver or wood at the end grain. Maple is bad for this, as are some pines, and mahogany.

A simple little trick I have found is this: Turn your stock so that the end grain is up; using masking or duct tape, make a tape 'dam' completely around your stock - see photo below:










Mix a little good quality varnish with a bit of thinner so that it is quite thin. Pour or brush a little of this on the end grain inside the dam. Be sure to get enough there so that it 'floats' or stays liquid on top of the end grain at first. Leave it to soak overnight or longer, until it is completely absorbed. Most woods will soak up liquid by capillary action, quite far into the wood - sometimes several inches. You can see the evidence of this sometimes when it weeps out the sides of the material below the end grain and dam. See Photos:



















Of course you can do something similar with glues, but they are usually of such a viscosity glues, even thinned, will not as easily soak in as a paint or varnish. Once the material is soaked in, remove the tape, clean up the sides and allow it to cure until hard, which may take a day or two.This will bind the fibers together and usually will cure problems with end grain tear out.


----------



## quicksilver

GnarlyErik said:


> *Preventing End Grain splitting*
> 
> You are faced with end grain splitting or tearing out when working some woods. Most woodworkers know to clamp a piece of waste stock hard up against the material being worked to prevent this when planing across end grain. But what about those times when you are simply sanding or doing some other operation on end grain?
> 
> Some materials have a bad tendency to tear out slivers at the ends of narrow stock, such as a chair or table leg. Sometimes simply sliding a wooden chair leg across the floor - especially if the floor is textured, can tear out a sliver or wood at the end grain. Maple is bad for this, as are some pines, and mahogany.
> 
> A simple little trick I have found is this: Turn your stock so that the end grain is up; using masking or duct tape, make a tape 'dam' completely around your stock - see photo below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mix a little good quality varnish with a bit of thinner so that it is quite thin. Pour or brush a little of this on the end grain inside the dam. Be sure to get enough there so that it 'floats' or stays liquid on top of the end grain at first. Leave it to soak overnight or longer, until it is completely absorbed. Most woods will soak up liquid by capillary action, quite far into the wood - sometimes several inches. You can see the evidence of this sometimes when it weeps out the sides of the material below the end grain and dam. See Photos:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you can do something similar with glues, but they are usually of such a viscosity glues, even thinned, will not as easily soak in as a paint or varnish. Once the material is soaked in, remove the tape, clean up the sides and allow it to cure until hard, which may take a day or two.This will bind the fibers together and usually will cure problems with end grain tear out.


Thanks
good idea


----------



## Bob817

GnarlyErik said:


> *Preventing End Grain splitting*
> 
> You are faced with end grain splitting or tearing out when working some woods. Most woodworkers know to clamp a piece of waste stock hard up against the material being worked to prevent this when planing across end grain. But what about those times when you are simply sanding or doing some other operation on end grain?
> 
> Some materials have a bad tendency to tear out slivers at the ends of narrow stock, such as a chair or table leg. Sometimes simply sliding a wooden chair leg across the floor - especially if the floor is textured, can tear out a sliver or wood at the end grain. Maple is bad for this, as are some pines, and mahogany.
> 
> A simple little trick I have found is this: Turn your stock so that the end grain is up; using masking or duct tape, make a tape 'dam' completely around your stock - see photo below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mix a little good quality varnish with a bit of thinner so that it is quite thin. Pour or brush a little of this on the end grain inside the dam. Be sure to get enough there so that it 'floats' or stays liquid on top of the end grain at first. Leave it to soak overnight or longer, until it is completely absorbed. Most woods will soak up liquid by capillary action, quite far into the wood - sometimes several inches. You can see the evidence of this sometimes when it weeps out the sides of the material below the end grain and dam. See Photos:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you can do something similar with glues, but they are usually of such a viscosity glues, even thinned, will not as easily soak in as a paint or varnish. Once the material is soaked in, remove the tape, clean up the sides and allow it to cure until hard, which may take a day or two.This will bind the fibers together and usually will cure problems with end grain tear out.


Great idea, Thankyou


----------



## Woodbridge

GnarlyErik said:


> *Preventing End Grain splitting*
> 
> You are faced with end grain splitting or tearing out when working some woods. Most woodworkers know to clamp a piece of waste stock hard up against the material being worked to prevent this when planing across end grain. But what about those times when you are simply sanding or doing some other operation on end grain?
> 
> Some materials have a bad tendency to tear out slivers at the ends of narrow stock, such as a chair or table leg. Sometimes simply sliding a wooden chair leg across the floor - especially if the floor is textured, can tear out a sliver or wood at the end grain. Maple is bad for this, as are some pines, and mahogany.
> 
> A simple little trick I have found is this: Turn your stock so that the end grain is up; using masking or duct tape, make a tape 'dam' completely around your stock - see photo below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mix a little good quality varnish with a bit of thinner so that it is quite thin. Pour or brush a little of this on the end grain inside the dam. Be sure to get enough there so that it 'floats' or stays liquid on top of the end grain at first. Leave it to soak overnight or longer, until it is completely absorbed. Most woods will soak up liquid by capillary action, quite far into the wood - sometimes several inches. You can see the evidence of this sometimes when it weeps out the sides of the material below the end grain and dam. See Photos:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you can do something similar with glues, but they are usually of such a viscosity glues, even thinned, will not as easily soak in as a paint or varnish. Once the material is soaked in, remove the tape, clean up the sides and allow it to cure until hard, which may take a day or two.This will bind the fibers together and usually will cure problems with end grain tear out.


Thanks that is an interesting tip.


----------



## gfadvm

GnarlyErik said:


> *Preventing End Grain splitting*
> 
> You are faced with end grain splitting or tearing out when working some woods. Most woodworkers know to clamp a piece of waste stock hard up against the material being worked to prevent this when planing across end grain. But what about those times when you are simply sanding or doing some other operation on end grain?
> 
> Some materials have a bad tendency to tear out slivers at the ends of narrow stock, such as a chair or table leg. Sometimes simply sliding a wooden chair leg across the floor - especially if the floor is textured, can tear out a sliver or wood at the end grain. Maple is bad for this, as are some pines, and mahogany.
> 
> A simple little trick I have found is this: Turn your stock so that the end grain is up; using masking or duct tape, make a tape 'dam' completely around your stock - see photo below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mix a little good quality varnish with a bit of thinner so that it is quite thin. Pour or brush a little of this on the end grain inside the dam. Be sure to get enough there so that it 'floats' or stays liquid on top of the end grain at first. Leave it to soak overnight or longer, until it is completely absorbed. Most woods will soak up liquid by capillary action, quite far into the wood - sometimes several inches. You can see the evidence of this sometimes when it weeps out the sides of the material below the end grain and dam. See Photos:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you can do something similar with glues, but they are usually of such a viscosity glues, even thinned, will not as easily soak in as a paint or varnish. Once the material is soaked in, remove the tape, clean up the sides and allow it to cure until hard, which may take a day or two.This will bind the fibers together and usually will cure problems with end grain tear out.


Thanks. This looks like a good tip.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

GnarlyErik said:


> *Preventing End Grain splitting*
> 
> You are faced with end grain splitting or tearing out when working some woods. Most woodworkers know to clamp a piece of waste stock hard up against the material being worked to prevent this when planing across end grain. But what about those times when you are simply sanding or doing some other operation on end grain?
> 
> Some materials have a bad tendency to tear out slivers at the ends of narrow stock, such as a chair or table leg. Sometimes simply sliding a wooden chair leg across the floor - especially if the floor is textured, can tear out a sliver or wood at the end grain. Maple is bad for this, as are some pines, and mahogany.
> 
> A simple little trick I have found is this: Turn your stock so that the end grain is up; using masking or duct tape, make a tape 'dam' completely around your stock - see photo below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mix a little good quality varnish with a bit of thinner so that it is quite thin. Pour or brush a little of this on the end grain inside the dam. Be sure to get enough there so that it 'floats' or stays liquid on top of the end grain at first. Leave it to soak overnight or longer, until it is completely absorbed. Most woods will soak up liquid by capillary action, quite far into the wood - sometimes several inches. You can see the evidence of this sometimes when it weeps out the sides of the material below the end grain and dam. See Photos:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you can do something similar with glues, but they are usually of such a viscosity glues, even thinned, will not as easily soak in as a paint or varnish. Once the material is soaked in, remove the tape, clean up the sides and allow it to cure until hard, which may take a day or two.This will bind the fibers together and usually will cure problems with end grain tear out.


thanks Erik 

Dennis


----------



## GnarlyErik

*Clamping Big Stuff*

Here are some little tricks you can use when you are trying to clamp something bigger or longer than your available clamps.

'Joining' clamps: Sometimes it is possible to simply clamp one clamp to another, with their business (working) dogs to the outside of your work as with pipe clamps, but in the case of door clamps this is hard or impossible to do since you can not rotate the dogs of the clamps.

Once neat solution is to use a piece of scrap as a 'joiner', sandwiching it between the clamp dogs. You need at least three clamps to do this, and more are better -

See photos below:



















Another way is by using wedges, which seems simple enough, but it is amusing to me so many people do not think of doing this, which can be adapted to almost any length or shape with a little thought. See illustration below:










A prime consideration using either of these methods is that you should also clamp your stock to a flat surface or planks to prevent it from bowing up (or down) in the middle as you apply pressure to the outer edges of the stock.

Another consideration is to make sure your clamp dogs are well padded to avoid damage to your stock. With wedges, it is imperative you use a piece of sacrificial material between your wedges and your stock. Wedges are generally used in opposing pairs and it helps to blunt the narrower ends so you can drive them back when needed. You can easily make a simple jig to cut identical wedges on the table saw if need be. About a 1 to 8 or longer taper is appropriate.


----------



## Bob817

GnarlyErik said:


> *Clamping Big Stuff*
> 
> Here are some little tricks you can use when you are trying to clamp something bigger or longer than your available clamps.
> 
> 'Joining' clamps: Sometimes it is possible to simply clamp one clamp to another, with their business (working) dogs to the outside of your work as with pipe clamps, but in the case of door clamps this is hard or impossible to do since you can not rotate the dogs of the clamps.
> 
> Once neat solution is to use a piece of scrap as a 'joiner', sandwiching it between the clamp dogs. You need at least three clamps to do this, and more are better -
> 
> See photos below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another way is by using wedges, which seems simple enough, but it is amusing to me so many people do not think of doing this, which can be adapted to almost any length or shape with a little thought. See illustration below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A prime consideration using either of these methods is that you should also clamp your stock to a flat surface or planks to prevent it from bowing up (or down) in the middle as you apply pressure to the outer edges of the stock.
> 
> Another consideration is to make sure your clamp dogs are well padded to avoid damage to your stock. With wedges, it is imperative you use a piece of sacrificial material between your wedges and your stock. Wedges are generally used in opposing pairs and it helps to blunt the narrower ends so you can drive them back when needed. You can easily make a simple jig to cut identical wedges on the table saw if need be. About a 1 to 8 or longer taper is appropriate.


good idea but why not just grab the 2 tops together instead of using a board?


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Clamping Big Stuff*
> 
> Here are some little tricks you can use when you are trying to clamp something bigger or longer than your available clamps.
> 
> 'Joining' clamps: Sometimes it is possible to simply clamp one clamp to another, with their business (working) dogs to the outside of your work as with pipe clamps, but in the case of door clamps this is hard or impossible to do since you can not rotate the dogs of the clamps.
> 
> Once neat solution is to use a piece of scrap as a 'joiner', sandwiching it between the clamp dogs. You need at least three clamps to do this, and more are better -
> 
> See photos below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another way is by using wedges, which seems simple enough, but it is amusing to me so many people do not think of doing this, which can be adapted to almost any length or shape with a little thought. See illustration below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A prime consideration using either of these methods is that you should also clamp your stock to a flat surface or planks to prevent it from bowing up (or down) in the middle as you apply pressure to the outer edges of the stock.
> 
> Another consideration is to make sure your clamp dogs are well padded to avoid damage to your stock. With wedges, it is imperative you use a piece of sacrificial material between your wedges and your stock. Wedges are generally used in opposing pairs and it helps to blunt the narrower ends so you can drive them back when needed. You can easily make a simple jig to cut identical wedges on the table saw if need be. About a 1 to 8 or longer taper is appropriate.


Bob, with door clamps you can only turn the dogs to allow them to grab each other by turning each clamp about 45 degrees which makes for a very uneasy grip prone to slipping. Using pipe clamps you can turn the dogs sideways.


----------



## Bob817

GnarlyErik said:


> *Clamping Big Stuff*
> 
> Here are some little tricks you can use when you are trying to clamp something bigger or longer than your available clamps.
> 
> 'Joining' clamps: Sometimes it is possible to simply clamp one clamp to another, with their business (working) dogs to the outside of your work as with pipe clamps, but in the case of door clamps this is hard or impossible to do since you can not rotate the dogs of the clamps.
> 
> Once neat solution is to use a piece of scrap as a 'joiner', sandwiching it between the clamp dogs. You need at least three clamps to do this, and more are better -
> 
> See photos below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another way is by using wedges, which seems simple enough, but it is amusing to me so many people do not think of doing this, which can be adapted to almost any length or shape with a little thought. See illustration below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A prime consideration using either of these methods is that you should also clamp your stock to a flat surface or planks to prevent it from bowing up (or down) in the middle as you apply pressure to the outer edges of the stock.
> 
> Another consideration is to make sure your clamp dogs are well padded to avoid damage to your stock. With wedges, it is imperative you use a piece of sacrificial material between your wedges and your stock. Wedges are generally used in opposing pairs and it helps to blunt the narrower ends so you can drive them back when needed. You can easily make a simple jig to cut identical wedges on the table saw if need be. About a 1 to 8 or longer taper is appropriate.


Yeah I realized that after I posted, Sorry. We can't delete once we hit "post this comment"


----------



## shipwright

GnarlyErik said:


> *Clamping Big Stuff*
> 
> Here are some little tricks you can use when you are trying to clamp something bigger or longer than your available clamps.
> 
> 'Joining' clamps: Sometimes it is possible to simply clamp one clamp to another, with their business (working) dogs to the outside of your work as with pipe clamps, but in the case of door clamps this is hard or impossible to do since you can not rotate the dogs of the clamps.
> 
> Once neat solution is to use a piece of scrap as a 'joiner', sandwiching it between the clamp dogs. You need at least three clamps to do this, and more are better -
> 
> See photos below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another way is by using wedges, which seems simple enough, but it is amusing to me so many people do not think of doing this, which can be adapted to almost any length or shape with a little thought. See illustration below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A prime consideration using either of these methods is that you should also clamp your stock to a flat surface or planks to prevent it from bowing up (or down) in the middle as you apply pressure to the outer edges of the stock.
> 
> Another consideration is to make sure your clamp dogs are well padded to avoid damage to your stock. With wedges, it is imperative you use a piece of sacrificial material between your wedges and your stock. Wedges are generally used in opposing pairs and it helps to blunt the narrower ends so you can drive them back when needed. You can easily make a simple jig to cut identical wedges on the table saw if need be. About a 1 to 8 or longer taper is appropriate.


Good one Eric, especially the wedges. 
So many people just don't think of them but they are so very useful and sooooo powerful.


----------



## Sylvain

GnarlyErik said:


> *Clamping Big Stuff*
> 
> Here are some little tricks you can use when you are trying to clamp something bigger or longer than your available clamps.
> 
> 'Joining' clamps: Sometimes it is possible to simply clamp one clamp to another, with their business (working) dogs to the outside of your work as with pipe clamps, but in the case of door clamps this is hard or impossible to do since you can not rotate the dogs of the clamps.
> 
> Once neat solution is to use a piece of scrap as a 'joiner', sandwiching it between the clamp dogs. You need at least three clamps to do this, and more are better -
> 
> See photos below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another way is by using wedges, which seems simple enough, but it is amusing to me so many people do not think of doing this, which can be adapted to almost any length or shape with a little thought. See illustration below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A prime consideration using either of these methods is that you should also clamp your stock to a flat surface or planks to prevent it from bowing up (or down) in the middle as you apply pressure to the outer edges of the stock.
> 
> Another consideration is to make sure your clamp dogs are well padded to avoid damage to your stock. With wedges, it is imperative you use a piece of sacrificial material between your wedges and your stock. Wedges are generally used in opposing pairs and it helps to blunt the narrower ends so you can drive them back when needed. You can easily make a simple jig to cut identical wedges on the table saw if need be. About a 1 to 8 or longer taper is appropriate.


Another overlooked technique is the tourniquet (as for tensioning a bow saw).
easy for gluing chairs with a trapezoidal seating.
The rope will dent the wood if you don't put a sacrificial scrap.

look here another use (third picture from bottom):
http://americanwoodworker.com/blogs/projects/archive/2012/01/10/ws-farm-table.aspx


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Clamping Big Stuff*
> 
> Here are some little tricks you can use when you are trying to clamp something bigger or longer than your available clamps.
> 
> 'Joining' clamps: Sometimes it is possible to simply clamp one clamp to another, with their business (working) dogs to the outside of your work as with pipe clamps, but in the case of door clamps this is hard or impossible to do since you can not rotate the dogs of the clamps.
> 
> Once neat solution is to use a piece of scrap as a 'joiner', sandwiching it between the clamp dogs. You need at least three clamps to do this, and more are better -
> 
> See photos below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another way is by using wedges, which seems simple enough, but it is amusing to me so many people do not think of doing this, which can be adapted to almost any length or shape with a little thought. See illustration below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A prime consideration using either of these methods is that you should also clamp your stock to a flat surface or planks to prevent it from bowing up (or down) in the middle as you apply pressure to the outer edges of the stock.
> 
> Another consideration is to make sure your clamp dogs are well padded to avoid damage to your stock. With wedges, it is imperative you use a piece of sacrificial material between your wedges and your stock. Wedges are generally used in opposing pairs and it helps to blunt the narrower ends so you can drive them back when needed. You can easily make a simple jig to cut identical wedges on the table saw if need be. About a 1 to 8 or longer taper is appropriate.


Right you are Sylvain! Good tip.

Erik


----------



## toeachhisown (Eddie)

GnarlyErik said:


> *Clamping Big Stuff*
> 
> Here are some little tricks you can use when you are trying to clamp something bigger or longer than your available clamps.
> 
> 'Joining' clamps: Sometimes it is possible to simply clamp one clamp to another, with their business (working) dogs to the outside of your work as with pipe clamps, but in the case of door clamps this is hard or impossible to do since you can not rotate the dogs of the clamps.
> 
> Once neat solution is to use a piece of scrap as a 'joiner', sandwiching it between the clamp dogs. You need at least three clamps to do this, and more are better -
> 
> See photos below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another way is by using wedges, which seems simple enough, but it is amusing to me so many people do not think of doing this, which can be adapted to almost any length or shape with a little thought. See illustration below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A prime consideration using either of these methods is that you should also clamp your stock to a flat surface or planks to prevent it from bowing up (or down) in the middle as you apply pressure to the outer edges of the stock.
> 
> Another consideration is to make sure your clamp dogs are well padded to avoid damage to your stock. With wedges, it is imperative you use a piece of sacrificial material between your wedges and your stock. Wedges are generally used in opposing pairs and it helps to blunt the narrower ends so you can drive them back when needed. You can easily make a simple jig to cut identical wedges on the table saw if need be. About a 1 to 8 or longer taper is appropriate.


thank you very much for sharing ,its great tips and always look foward to them again thanks from a newbie


----------



## mochoa

GnarlyErik said:


> *Clamping Big Stuff*
> 
> Here are some little tricks you can use when you are trying to clamp something bigger or longer than your available clamps.
> 
> 'Joining' clamps: Sometimes it is possible to simply clamp one clamp to another, with their business (working) dogs to the outside of your work as with pipe clamps, but in the case of door clamps this is hard or impossible to do since you can not rotate the dogs of the clamps.
> 
> Once neat solution is to use a piece of scrap as a 'joiner', sandwiching it between the clamp dogs. You need at least three clamps to do this, and more are better -
> 
> See photos below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another way is by using wedges, which seems simple enough, but it is amusing to me so many people do not think of doing this, which can be adapted to almost any length or shape with a little thought. See illustration below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A prime consideration using either of these methods is that you should also clamp your stock to a flat surface or planks to prevent it from bowing up (or down) in the middle as you apply pressure to the outer edges of the stock.
> 
> Another consideration is to make sure your clamp dogs are well padded to avoid damage to your stock. With wedges, it is imperative you use a piece of sacrificial material between your wedges and your stock. Wedges are generally used in opposing pairs and it helps to blunt the narrower ends so you can drive them back when needed. You can easily make a simple jig to cut identical wedges on the table saw if need be. About a 1 to 8 or longer taper is appropriate.


Great tips! I've tried using wedges before but I really like your use of clamps to hold the cross pieces.


----------



## OggieOglethorpe

GnarlyErik said:


> *Clamping Big Stuff*
> 
> Here are some little tricks you can use when you are trying to clamp something bigger or longer than your available clamps.
> 
> 'Joining' clamps: Sometimes it is possible to simply clamp one clamp to another, with their business (working) dogs to the outside of your work as with pipe clamps, but in the case of door clamps this is hard or impossible to do since you can not rotate the dogs of the clamps.
> 
> Once neat solution is to use a piece of scrap as a 'joiner', sandwiching it between the clamp dogs. You need at least three clamps to do this, and more are better -
> 
> See photos below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another way is by using wedges, which seems simple enough, but it is amusing to me so many people do not think of doing this, which can be adapted to almost any length or shape with a little thought. See illustration below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A prime consideration using either of these methods is that you should also clamp your stock to a flat surface or planks to prevent it from bowing up (or down) in the middle as you apply pressure to the outer edges of the stock.
> 
> Another consideration is to make sure your clamp dogs are well padded to avoid damage to your stock. With wedges, it is imperative you use a piece of sacrificial material between your wedges and your stock. Wedges are generally used in opposing pairs and it helps to blunt the narrower ends so you can drive them back when needed. You can easily make a simple jig to cut identical wedges on the table saw if need be. About a 1 to 8 or longer taper is appropriate.


Don't forget the tried and true ratchet strap, too…


----------



## GnarlyErik

*MORE than you ever wanted to know about HOLES!*

Don't get too excited - this isn't an article on porn or sex, but only about making holes in wood! There are times when you need a hole in wood which becomes a challenge, even with the right sort and size bit. Here's how to deal with some of the more common challenges:

*1. Drilling long holes accurately*:

A. By far the easiest way is by making a shallow saw kerf in the "Faying Surface"①. These are then joined together by glueing or other means, with the kerfs mirroring each other, i.e., face to face. After joining, the hole is made using a spiral auger with a lead screw entering the saw kerfs. The lead screw will follow the kerf unless it encounters a knot or irregular spot. Needless to say, you must go slowly and carefully and clear the chips often. If the bit starts to bind it may mean it is getting off track. This works with brad point bits too up to a point (pardon the pun!), but these are more likely to wander since the bit is not supported on its sides its full length, which seems to be an important requirement for any tool drilling long, deep holes. Regular machinist type twist bits do not work nearly as well as augers unless the saw kerfs are quite wide.

B. Of course there are times you must drill a long, deep hole when you don't have the option of glueing two pieces together with sawn kerfs. Here, you might use a 'Barefoot Auger'; A barefoot auger is a special bit used by shipwrights and is similar to a spiral auger with no lead screw. These can drill quite long holes, but must be very carefully started in exactly the right direction. Even then, it the bit hits a knot or hard place it can change direction on you. Shipwrights often make a special 'guides' to get the bits started in the proper direction usually consisting of two pieces of wood at right angles to each other and squared at the bottom (or beveled, if the hole is to be at an angle). Other sorts of guides 'sandwich' the part to be drilled with drill guides to keep the bit centered along its length. You can make a sort of barefoot auger from an old auger by cutting off the lead screw, but it will not have the same 'foot' as a bit intended and manufactured as barefoot, and therefore will not work nearly as well.

C. Use a 'Spoon Bit' or 'Shell Auger'; A spoon bit is an ancient type still used by chair, lamp, and instrument makers to bore long holes in things like chair backs, lamps and flutes. These are usually carefully hand driven with a bit stock, or twist handle. Spoon bits today are fairly expensive. Lee Valley sells one type.② You can also make your own and here is an article which shows how in detail.③ If you find yourself making a lot of long, deep holes it would be worthwhile to explore this type of bit. Obviously, there is some skill and patience required to use these accurately.

D. There are also a number of speciality (and expensive) bits used with lathes to make long holes in gun barrels, lamps, etc. These are somewhat similar to shell bits and are called 'D' bits. Those are beyond the scope of what I am trying to present here.

And, just for giggles, I'll mention something called a 'boring bar' which boatbuilders use to drill out for propeller shafts, but these are not properly drill bits in themselves as they need a pilot hole which must first be drilled with one of the above mentioned type bits.

*2. Drilling 'part of a hole':*

Here are some common-sense tips for drilling 'parts' of a hole, i.e. half or other fraction of a hole's diameter at the edge of something. For example, you may need a series of half circles in the edge of a plank to hold bottle necks in a wine rack or something like that. You can use a jig saw, or band saw and try to deal with the irregular hole which results, 
Or,

You can cut or drill your holes down the middle of a plank and then cut that through the holes into two equal width pieces with a saw;
Or you can,

Clamp a piece of waste material of the same thickness next to your stock, locate the center of your hole so your drill cuts away as much as you need for the partial hole in your stock. This works with augers, twist drill bits, Forstner bits, hole saws or whatever and is very accurate. See illustration and photos following:























































If you need to make 'part holes' of longer lengths, you can use the same method at the edges of your working stock. The nice thing about this is you can produce partial holes limited only by the depth capacity of your bit or hole saw. See illustration and photos following:




























Links to pertinent information:
① http://www.answers.com/topic/faying-surface
② http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=57713&cat=1,180,42240,53317&ap=1
③ http://toolmakingart.com/2011/02/27/how-to-make-an-octagonal-handle-shell-auger-and-straight-drilling-guide/


----------



## shipwright

GnarlyErik said:


> *MORE than you ever wanted to know about HOLES!*
> 
> Don't get too excited - this isn't an article on porn or sex, but only about making holes in wood! There are times when you need a hole in wood which becomes a challenge, even with the right sort and size bit. Here's how to deal with some of the more common challenges:
> 
> *1. Drilling long holes accurately*:
> 
> A. By far the easiest way is by making a shallow saw kerf in the "Faying Surface"①. These are then joined together by glueing or other means, with the kerfs mirroring each other, i.e., face to face. After joining, the hole is made using a spiral auger with a lead screw entering the saw kerfs. The lead screw will follow the kerf unless it encounters a knot or irregular spot. Needless to say, you must go slowly and carefully and clear the chips often. If the bit starts to bind it may mean it is getting off track. This works with brad point bits too up to a point (pardon the pun!), but these are more likely to wander since the bit is not supported on its sides its full length, which seems to be an important requirement for any tool drilling long, deep holes. Regular machinist type twist bits do not work nearly as well as augers unless the saw kerfs are quite wide.
> 
> B. Of course there are times you must drill a long, deep hole when you don't have the option of glueing two pieces together with sawn kerfs. Here, you might use a 'Barefoot Auger'; A barefoot auger is a special bit used by shipwrights and is similar to a spiral auger with no lead screw. These can drill quite long holes, but must be very carefully started in exactly the right direction. Even then, it the bit hits a knot or hard place it can change direction on you. Shipwrights often make a special 'guides' to get the bits started in the proper direction usually consisting of two pieces of wood at right angles to each other and squared at the bottom (or beveled, if the hole is to be at an angle). Other sorts of guides 'sandwich' the part to be drilled with drill guides to keep the bit centered along its length. You can make a sort of barefoot auger from an old auger by cutting off the lead screw, but it will not have the same 'foot' as a bit intended and manufactured as barefoot, and therefore will not work nearly as well.
> 
> C. Use a 'Spoon Bit' or 'Shell Auger'; A spoon bit is an ancient type still used by chair, lamp, and instrument makers to bore long holes in things like chair backs, lamps and flutes. These are usually carefully hand driven with a bit stock, or twist handle. Spoon bits today are fairly expensive. Lee Valley sells one type.② You can also make your own and here is an article which shows how in detail.③ If you find yourself making a lot of long, deep holes it would be worthwhile to explore this type of bit. Obviously, there is some skill and patience required to use these accurately.
> 
> D. There are also a number of speciality (and expensive) bits used with lathes to make long holes in gun barrels, lamps, etc. These are somewhat similar to shell bits and are called 'D' bits. Those are beyond the scope of what I am trying to present here.
> 
> And, just for giggles, I'll mention something called a 'boring bar' which boatbuilders use to drill out for propeller shafts, but these are not properly drill bits in themselves as they need a pilot hole which must first be drilled with one of the above mentioned type bits.
> 
> *2. Drilling 'part of a hole':*
> 
> Here are some common-sense tips for drilling 'parts' of a hole, i.e. half or other fraction of a hole's diameter at the edge of something. For example, you may need a series of half circles in the edge of a plank to hold bottle necks in a wine rack or something like that. You can use a jig saw, or band saw and try to deal with the irregular hole which results,
> Or,
> 
> You can cut or drill your holes down the middle of a plank and then cut that through the holes into two equal width pieces with a saw;
> Or you can,
> 
> Clamp a piece of waste material of the same thickness next to your stock, locate the center of your hole so your drill cuts away as much as you need for the partial hole in your stock. This works with augers, twist drill bits, Forstner bits, hole saws or whatever and is very accurate. See illustration and photos following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you need to make 'part holes' of longer lengths, you can use the same method at the edges of your working stock. The nice thing about this is you can produce partial holes limited only by the depth capacity of your bit or hole saw. See illustration and photos following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Links to pertinent information:
> ① http://www.answers.com/topic/faying-surface
> ② http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=57713&cat=1,180,42240,53317&ap=1
> ③ http://toolmakingart.com/2011/02/27/how-to-make-an-octagonal-handle-shell-auger-and-straight-drilling-guide/


Good tips Eric.
When I saw your title it made me think of the first day I walked into North Arm Boat Works and asked if they were hiring. I had no experience except building a ferro cement hull but the boss took me out under a timbered stern he was working on and showed me the setup below. After a bit of instruction I was drilling1/2" X 3 1/2' holes, cutting and threading the rod bolts and driving them home. At the end of the day he came out to see how I was doing and when I said I'd have the last one in in ten minutes, he said "It's OK you can finish it up tomorrow." That's how I got started as a boat builder. The boat was a 50 foot seiner and the stern was an "igloo" of 4 X 12 Yellow Cedar. That man taught me more in two years than I've learned in any ten years since.


----------



## davegutz

GnarlyErik said:


> *MORE than you ever wanted to know about HOLES!*
> 
> Don't get too excited - this isn't an article on porn or sex, but only about making holes in wood! There are times when you need a hole in wood which becomes a challenge, even with the right sort and size bit. Here's how to deal with some of the more common challenges:
> 
> *1. Drilling long holes accurately*:
> 
> A. By far the easiest way is by making a shallow saw kerf in the "Faying Surface"①. These are then joined together by glueing or other means, with the kerfs mirroring each other, i.e., face to face. After joining, the hole is made using a spiral auger with a lead screw entering the saw kerfs. The lead screw will follow the kerf unless it encounters a knot or irregular spot. Needless to say, you must go slowly and carefully and clear the chips often. If the bit starts to bind it may mean it is getting off track. This works with brad point bits too up to a point (pardon the pun!), but these are more likely to wander since the bit is not supported on its sides its full length, which seems to be an important requirement for any tool drilling long, deep holes. Regular machinist type twist bits do not work nearly as well as augers unless the saw kerfs are quite wide.
> 
> B. Of course there are times you must drill a long, deep hole when you don't have the option of glueing two pieces together with sawn kerfs. Here, you might use a 'Barefoot Auger'; A barefoot auger is a special bit used by shipwrights and is similar to a spiral auger with no lead screw. These can drill quite long holes, but must be very carefully started in exactly the right direction. Even then, it the bit hits a knot or hard place it can change direction on you. Shipwrights often make a special 'guides' to get the bits started in the proper direction usually consisting of two pieces of wood at right angles to each other and squared at the bottom (or beveled, if the hole is to be at an angle). Other sorts of guides 'sandwich' the part to be drilled with drill guides to keep the bit centered along its length. You can make a sort of barefoot auger from an old auger by cutting off the lead screw, but it will not have the same 'foot' as a bit intended and manufactured as barefoot, and therefore will not work nearly as well.
> 
> C. Use a 'Spoon Bit' or 'Shell Auger'; A spoon bit is an ancient type still used by chair, lamp, and instrument makers to bore long holes in things like chair backs, lamps and flutes. These are usually carefully hand driven with a bit stock, or twist handle. Spoon bits today are fairly expensive. Lee Valley sells one type.② You can also make your own and here is an article which shows how in detail.③ If you find yourself making a lot of long, deep holes it would be worthwhile to explore this type of bit. Obviously, there is some skill and patience required to use these accurately.
> 
> D. There are also a number of speciality (and expensive) bits used with lathes to make long holes in gun barrels, lamps, etc. These are somewhat similar to shell bits and are called 'D' bits. Those are beyond the scope of what I am trying to present here.
> 
> And, just for giggles, I'll mention something called a 'boring bar' which boatbuilders use to drill out for propeller shafts, but these are not properly drill bits in themselves as they need a pilot hole which must first be drilled with one of the above mentioned type bits.
> 
> *2. Drilling 'part of a hole':*
> 
> Here are some common-sense tips for drilling 'parts' of a hole, i.e. half or other fraction of a hole's diameter at the edge of something. For example, you may need a series of half circles in the edge of a plank to hold bottle necks in a wine rack or something like that. You can use a jig saw, or band saw and try to deal with the irregular hole which results,
> Or,
> 
> You can cut or drill your holes down the middle of a plank and then cut that through the holes into two equal width pieces with a saw;
> Or you can,
> 
> Clamp a piece of waste material of the same thickness next to your stock, locate the center of your hole so your drill cuts away as much as you need for the partial hole in your stock. This works with augers, twist drill bits, Forstner bits, hole saws or whatever and is very accurate. See illustration and photos following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you need to make 'part holes' of longer lengths, you can use the same method at the edges of your working stock. The nice thing about this is you can produce partial holes limited only by the depth capacity of your bit or hole saw. See illustration and photos following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Links to pertinent information:
> ① http://www.answers.com/topic/faying-surface
> ② http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=57713&cat=1,180,42240,53317&ap=1
> ③ http://toolmakingart.com/2011/02/27/how-to-make-an-octagonal-handle-shell-auger-and-straight-drilling-guide/


The boring bar sounds like what metalworkers call a reamer.


----------



## shipwright

GnarlyErik said:


> *MORE than you ever wanted to know about HOLES!*
> 
> Don't get too excited - this isn't an article on porn or sex, but only about making holes in wood! There are times when you need a hole in wood which becomes a challenge, even with the right sort and size bit. Here's how to deal with some of the more common challenges:
> 
> *1. Drilling long holes accurately*:
> 
> A. By far the easiest way is by making a shallow saw kerf in the "Faying Surface"①. These are then joined together by glueing or other means, with the kerfs mirroring each other, i.e., face to face. After joining, the hole is made using a spiral auger with a lead screw entering the saw kerfs. The lead screw will follow the kerf unless it encounters a knot or irregular spot. Needless to say, you must go slowly and carefully and clear the chips often. If the bit starts to bind it may mean it is getting off track. This works with brad point bits too up to a point (pardon the pun!), but these are more likely to wander since the bit is not supported on its sides its full length, which seems to be an important requirement for any tool drilling long, deep holes. Regular machinist type twist bits do not work nearly as well as augers unless the saw kerfs are quite wide.
> 
> B. Of course there are times you must drill a long, deep hole when you don't have the option of glueing two pieces together with sawn kerfs. Here, you might use a 'Barefoot Auger'; A barefoot auger is a special bit used by shipwrights and is similar to a spiral auger with no lead screw. These can drill quite long holes, but must be very carefully started in exactly the right direction. Even then, it the bit hits a knot or hard place it can change direction on you. Shipwrights often make a special 'guides' to get the bits started in the proper direction usually consisting of two pieces of wood at right angles to each other and squared at the bottom (or beveled, if the hole is to be at an angle). Other sorts of guides 'sandwich' the part to be drilled with drill guides to keep the bit centered along its length. You can make a sort of barefoot auger from an old auger by cutting off the lead screw, but it will not have the same 'foot' as a bit intended and manufactured as barefoot, and therefore will not work nearly as well.
> 
> C. Use a 'Spoon Bit' or 'Shell Auger'; A spoon bit is an ancient type still used by chair, lamp, and instrument makers to bore long holes in things like chair backs, lamps and flutes. These are usually carefully hand driven with a bit stock, or twist handle. Spoon bits today are fairly expensive. Lee Valley sells one type.② You can also make your own and here is an article which shows how in detail.③ If you find yourself making a lot of long, deep holes it would be worthwhile to explore this type of bit. Obviously, there is some skill and patience required to use these accurately.
> 
> D. There are also a number of speciality (and expensive) bits used with lathes to make long holes in gun barrels, lamps, etc. These are somewhat similar to shell bits and are called 'D' bits. Those are beyond the scope of what I am trying to present here.
> 
> And, just for giggles, I'll mention something called a 'boring bar' which boatbuilders use to drill out for propeller shafts, but these are not properly drill bits in themselves as they need a pilot hole which must first be drilled with one of the above mentioned type bits.
> 
> *2. Drilling 'part of a hole':*
> 
> Here are some common-sense tips for drilling 'parts' of a hole, i.e. half or other fraction of a hole's diameter at the edge of something. For example, you may need a series of half circles in the edge of a plank to hold bottle necks in a wine rack or something like that. You can use a jig saw, or band saw and try to deal with the irregular hole which results,
> Or,
> 
> You can cut or drill your holes down the middle of a plank and then cut that through the holes into two equal width pieces with a saw;
> Or you can,
> 
> Clamp a piece of waste material of the same thickness next to your stock, locate the center of your hole so your drill cuts away as much as you need for the partial hole in your stock. This works with augers, twist drill bits, Forstner bits, hole saws or whatever and is very accurate. See illustration and photos following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> If you need to make 'part holes' of longer lengths, you can use the same method at the edges of your working stock. The nice thing about this is you can produce partial holes limited only by the depth capacity of your bit or hole saw. See illustration and photos following:
> 
> 
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> 
> Links to pertinent information:
> ① http://www.answers.com/topic/faying-surface
> ② http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=57713&cat=1,180,42240,53317&ap=1
> ③ http://toolmakingart.com/2011/02/27/how-to-make-an-octagonal-handle-shell-auger-and-straight-drilling-guide/


Boring bar:


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *MORE than you ever wanted to know about HOLES!*
> 
> Don't get too excited - this isn't an article on porn or sex, but only about making holes in wood! There are times when you need a hole in wood which becomes a challenge, even with the right sort and size bit. Here's how to deal with some of the more common challenges:
> 
> *1. Drilling long holes accurately*:
> 
> A. By far the easiest way is by making a shallow saw kerf in the "Faying Surface"①. These are then joined together by glueing or other means, with the kerfs mirroring each other, i.e., face to face. After joining, the hole is made using a spiral auger with a lead screw entering the saw kerfs. The lead screw will follow the kerf unless it encounters a knot or irregular spot. Needless to say, you must go slowly and carefully and clear the chips often. If the bit starts to bind it may mean it is getting off track. This works with brad point bits too up to a point (pardon the pun!), but these are more likely to wander since the bit is not supported on its sides its full length, which seems to be an important requirement for any tool drilling long, deep holes. Regular machinist type twist bits do not work nearly as well as augers unless the saw kerfs are quite wide.
> 
> B. Of course there are times you must drill a long, deep hole when you don't have the option of glueing two pieces together with sawn kerfs. Here, you might use a 'Barefoot Auger'; A barefoot auger is a special bit used by shipwrights and is similar to a spiral auger with no lead screw. These can drill quite long holes, but must be very carefully started in exactly the right direction. Even then, it the bit hits a knot or hard place it can change direction on you. Shipwrights often make a special 'guides' to get the bits started in the proper direction usually consisting of two pieces of wood at right angles to each other and squared at the bottom (or beveled, if the hole is to be at an angle). Other sorts of guides 'sandwich' the part to be drilled with drill guides to keep the bit centered along its length. You can make a sort of barefoot auger from an old auger by cutting off the lead screw, but it will not have the same 'foot' as a bit intended and manufactured as barefoot, and therefore will not work nearly as well.
> 
> C. Use a 'Spoon Bit' or 'Shell Auger'; A spoon bit is an ancient type still used by chair, lamp, and instrument makers to bore long holes in things like chair backs, lamps and flutes. These are usually carefully hand driven with a bit stock, or twist handle. Spoon bits today are fairly expensive. Lee Valley sells one type.② You can also make your own and here is an article which shows how in detail.③ If you find yourself making a lot of long, deep holes it would be worthwhile to explore this type of bit. Obviously, there is some skill and patience required to use these accurately.
> 
> D. There are also a number of speciality (and expensive) bits used with lathes to make long holes in gun barrels, lamps, etc. These are somewhat similar to shell bits and are called 'D' bits. Those are beyond the scope of what I am trying to present here.
> 
> And, just for giggles, I'll mention something called a 'boring bar' which boatbuilders use to drill out for propeller shafts, but these are not properly drill bits in themselves as they need a pilot hole which must first be drilled with one of the above mentioned type bits.
> 
> *2. Drilling 'part of a hole':*
> 
> Here are some common-sense tips for drilling 'parts' of a hole, i.e. half or other fraction of a hole's diameter at the edge of something. For example, you may need a series of half circles in the edge of a plank to hold bottle necks in a wine rack or something like that. You can use a jig saw, or band saw and try to deal with the irregular hole which results,
> Or,
> 
> You can cut or drill your holes down the middle of a plank and then cut that through the holes into two equal width pieces with a saw;
> Or you can,
> 
> Clamp a piece of waste material of the same thickness next to your stock, locate the center of your hole so your drill cuts away as much as you need for the partial hole in your stock. This works with augers, twist drill bits, Forstner bits, hole saws or whatever and is very accurate. See illustration and photos following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you need to make 'part holes' of longer lengths, you can use the same method at the edges of your working stock. The nice thing about this is you can produce partial holes limited only by the depth capacity of your bit or hole saw. See illustration and photos following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Links to pertinent information:
> ① http://www.answers.com/topic/faying-surface
> ② http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=57713&cat=1,180,42240,53317&ap=1
> ③ http://toolmakingart.com/2011/02/27/how-to-make-an-octagonal-handle-shell-auger-and-straight-drilling-guide/


Dave G -

See Shipwright's comment above.

The 'reamers' I am familiar with are cylindrical tool bits with ridges, sometimes slightly cone shaped and some with parallel sides - although machinists may know and use a different type.

The boring bar a shipwright uses is a 10' or so length of rod - usually a piece of propeller shafting. This has a square keyhole cut at about a 20 degree angle through its diameter a few feet from one end. A sharp machinist's lathe tool bit is set in the keyhole with a set screw to control how far it projects outside the shaft. This apparatus is threaded thru a pilot hole however drilled. It is then precisely aligned, then supported by bearings - flange or pillow block - and sometimes just holes drilled through blocks of wood. Once aligned and all securely clamped or bolted down, power is applied to one end of the shaft - usually something like a 1/2" drill motor. The shaft is advanced into the pilot hole and the cutter bit accurately trues and sizes the hole. The bearings allow the turning shaft to pass back and forth through the pilot hole. Usually, several passes are made with the cutter bit being advanced beyond the shaft a little at a time. A very accurate bore is the result.


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *MORE than you ever wanted to know about HOLES!*
> 
> Don't get too excited - this isn't an article on porn or sex, but only about making holes in wood! There are times when you need a hole in wood which becomes a challenge, even with the right sort and size bit. Here's how to deal with some of the more common challenges:
> 
> *1. Drilling long holes accurately*:
> 
> A. By far the easiest way is by making a shallow saw kerf in the "Faying Surface"①. These are then joined together by glueing or other means, with the kerfs mirroring each other, i.e., face to face. After joining, the hole is made using a spiral auger with a lead screw entering the saw kerfs. The lead screw will follow the kerf unless it encounters a knot or irregular spot. Needless to say, you must go slowly and carefully and clear the chips often. If the bit starts to bind it may mean it is getting off track. This works with brad point bits too up to a point (pardon the pun!), but these are more likely to wander since the bit is not supported on its sides its full length, which seems to be an important requirement for any tool drilling long, deep holes. Regular machinist type twist bits do not work nearly as well as augers unless the saw kerfs are quite wide.
> 
> B. Of course there are times you must drill a long, deep hole when you don't have the option of glueing two pieces together with sawn kerfs. Here, you might use a 'Barefoot Auger'; A barefoot auger is a special bit used by shipwrights and is similar to a spiral auger with no lead screw. These can drill quite long holes, but must be very carefully started in exactly the right direction. Even then, it the bit hits a knot or hard place it can change direction on you. Shipwrights often make a special 'guides' to get the bits started in the proper direction usually consisting of two pieces of wood at right angles to each other and squared at the bottom (or beveled, if the hole is to be at an angle). Other sorts of guides 'sandwich' the part to be drilled with drill guides to keep the bit centered along its length. You can make a sort of barefoot auger from an old auger by cutting off the lead screw, but it will not have the same 'foot' as a bit intended and manufactured as barefoot, and therefore will not work nearly as well.
> 
> C. Use a 'Spoon Bit' or 'Shell Auger'; A spoon bit is an ancient type still used by chair, lamp, and instrument makers to bore long holes in things like chair backs, lamps and flutes. These are usually carefully hand driven with a bit stock, or twist handle. Spoon bits today are fairly expensive. Lee Valley sells one type.② You can also make your own and here is an article which shows how in detail.③ If you find yourself making a lot of long, deep holes it would be worthwhile to explore this type of bit. Obviously, there is some skill and patience required to use these accurately.
> 
> D. There are also a number of speciality (and expensive) bits used with lathes to make long holes in gun barrels, lamps, etc. These are somewhat similar to shell bits and are called 'D' bits. Those are beyond the scope of what I am trying to present here.
> 
> And, just for giggles, I'll mention something called a 'boring bar' which boatbuilders use to drill out for propeller shafts, but these are not properly drill bits in themselves as they need a pilot hole which must first be drilled with one of the above mentioned type bits.
> 
> *2. Drilling 'part of a hole':*
> 
> Here are some common-sense tips for drilling 'parts' of a hole, i.e. half or other fraction of a hole's diameter at the edge of something. For example, you may need a series of half circles in the edge of a plank to hold bottle necks in a wine rack or something like that. You can use a jig saw, or band saw and try to deal with the irregular hole which results,
> Or,
> 
> You can cut or drill your holes down the middle of a plank and then cut that through the holes into two equal width pieces with a saw;
> Or you can,
> 
> Clamp a piece of waste material of the same thickness next to your stock, locate the center of your hole so your drill cuts away as much as you need for the partial hole in your stock. This works with augers, twist drill bits, Forstner bits, hole saws or whatever and is very accurate. See illustration and photos following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you need to make 'part holes' of longer lengths, you can use the same method at the edges of your working stock. The nice thing about this is you can produce partial holes limited only by the depth capacity of your bit or hole saw. See illustration and photos following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Links to pertinent information:
> ① http://www.answers.com/topic/faying-surface
> ② http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=57713&cat=1,180,42240,53317&ap=1
> ③ http://toolmakingart.com/2011/02/27/how-to-make-an-octagonal-handle-shell-auger-and-straight-drilling-guide/


Yes, Paul -

We called those timbered stern vessels 'floating national forests' in the shipyard - they had so many cubic feet of timber in them - and those sterns are the devil to repair as you know. Frost can really work on them.


----------



## shipwright

GnarlyErik said:


> *MORE than you ever wanted to know about HOLES!*
> 
> Don't get too excited - this isn't an article on porn or sex, but only about making holes in wood! There are times when you need a hole in wood which becomes a challenge, even with the right sort and size bit. Here's how to deal with some of the more common challenges:
> 
> *1. Drilling long holes accurately*:
> 
> A. By far the easiest way is by making a shallow saw kerf in the "Faying Surface"①. These are then joined together by glueing or other means, with the kerfs mirroring each other, i.e., face to face. After joining, the hole is made using a spiral auger with a lead screw entering the saw kerfs. The lead screw will follow the kerf unless it encounters a knot or irregular spot. Needless to say, you must go slowly and carefully and clear the chips often. If the bit starts to bind it may mean it is getting off track. This works with brad point bits too up to a point (pardon the pun!), but these are more likely to wander since the bit is not supported on its sides its full length, which seems to be an important requirement for any tool drilling long, deep holes. Regular machinist type twist bits do not work nearly as well as augers unless the saw kerfs are quite wide.
> 
> B. Of course there are times you must drill a long, deep hole when you don't have the option of glueing two pieces together with sawn kerfs. Here, you might use a 'Barefoot Auger'; A barefoot auger is a special bit used by shipwrights and is similar to a spiral auger with no lead screw. These can drill quite long holes, but must be very carefully started in exactly the right direction. Even then, it the bit hits a knot or hard place it can change direction on you. Shipwrights often make a special 'guides' to get the bits started in the proper direction usually consisting of two pieces of wood at right angles to each other and squared at the bottom (or beveled, if the hole is to be at an angle). Other sorts of guides 'sandwich' the part to be drilled with drill guides to keep the bit centered along its length. You can make a sort of barefoot auger from an old auger by cutting off the lead screw, but it will not have the same 'foot' as a bit intended and manufactured as barefoot, and therefore will not work nearly as well.
> 
> C. Use a 'Spoon Bit' or 'Shell Auger'; A spoon bit is an ancient type still used by chair, lamp, and instrument makers to bore long holes in things like chair backs, lamps and flutes. These are usually carefully hand driven with a bit stock, or twist handle. Spoon bits today are fairly expensive. Lee Valley sells one type.② You can also make your own and here is an article which shows how in detail.③ If you find yourself making a lot of long, deep holes it would be worthwhile to explore this type of bit. Obviously, there is some skill and patience required to use these accurately.
> 
> D. There are also a number of speciality (and expensive) bits used with lathes to make long holes in gun barrels, lamps, etc. These are somewhat similar to shell bits and are called 'D' bits. Those are beyond the scope of what I am trying to present here.
> 
> And, just for giggles, I'll mention something called a 'boring bar' which boatbuilders use to drill out for propeller shafts, but these are not properly drill bits in themselves as they need a pilot hole which must first be drilled with one of the above mentioned type bits.
> 
> *2. Drilling 'part of a hole':*
> 
> Here are some common-sense tips for drilling 'parts' of a hole, i.e. half or other fraction of a hole's diameter at the edge of something. For example, you may need a series of half circles in the edge of a plank to hold bottle necks in a wine rack or something like that. You can use a jig saw, or band saw and try to deal with the irregular hole which results,
> Or,
> 
> You can cut or drill your holes down the middle of a plank and then cut that through the holes into two equal width pieces with a saw;
> Or you can,
> 
> Clamp a piece of waste material of the same thickness next to your stock, locate the center of your hole so your drill cuts away as much as you need for the partial hole in your stock. This works with augers, twist drill bits, Forstner bits, hole saws or whatever and is very accurate. See illustration and photos following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you need to make 'part holes' of longer lengths, you can use the same method at the edges of your working stock. The nice thing about this is you can produce partial holes limited only by the depth capacity of your bit or hole saw. See illustration and photos following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Links to pertinent information:
> ① http://www.answers.com/topic/faying-surface
> ② http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=57713&cat=1,180,42240,53317&ap=1
> ③ http://toolmakingart.com/2011/02/27/how-to-make-an-octagonal-handle-shell-auger-and-straight-drilling-guide/


I built a few, but never had to repair one Erik, but I'll take your word for it.
I can imagine it would not be easy.


----------



## davegutz

GnarlyErik said:


> *MORE than you ever wanted to know about HOLES!*
> 
> Don't get too excited - this isn't an article on porn or sex, but only about making holes in wood! There are times when you need a hole in wood which becomes a challenge, even with the right sort and size bit. Here's how to deal with some of the more common challenges:
> 
> *1. Drilling long holes accurately*:
> 
> A. By far the easiest way is by making a shallow saw kerf in the "Faying Surface"①. These are then joined together by glueing or other means, with the kerfs mirroring each other, i.e., face to face. After joining, the hole is made using a spiral auger with a lead screw entering the saw kerfs. The lead screw will follow the kerf unless it encounters a knot or irregular spot. Needless to say, you must go slowly and carefully and clear the chips often. If the bit starts to bind it may mean it is getting off track. This works with brad point bits too up to a point (pardon the pun!), but these are more likely to wander since the bit is not supported on its sides its full length, which seems to be an important requirement for any tool drilling long, deep holes. Regular machinist type twist bits do not work nearly as well as augers unless the saw kerfs are quite wide.
> 
> B. Of course there are times you must drill a long, deep hole when you don't have the option of glueing two pieces together with sawn kerfs. Here, you might use a 'Barefoot Auger'; A barefoot auger is a special bit used by shipwrights and is similar to a spiral auger with no lead screw. These can drill quite long holes, but must be very carefully started in exactly the right direction. Even then, it the bit hits a knot or hard place it can change direction on you. Shipwrights often make a special 'guides' to get the bits started in the proper direction usually consisting of two pieces of wood at right angles to each other and squared at the bottom (or beveled, if the hole is to be at an angle). Other sorts of guides 'sandwich' the part to be drilled with drill guides to keep the bit centered along its length. You can make a sort of barefoot auger from an old auger by cutting off the lead screw, but it will not have the same 'foot' as a bit intended and manufactured as barefoot, and therefore will not work nearly as well.
> 
> C. Use a 'Spoon Bit' or 'Shell Auger'; A spoon bit is an ancient type still used by chair, lamp, and instrument makers to bore long holes in things like chair backs, lamps and flutes. These are usually carefully hand driven with a bit stock, or twist handle. Spoon bits today are fairly expensive. Lee Valley sells one type.② You can also make your own and here is an article which shows how in detail.③ If you find yourself making a lot of long, deep holes it would be worthwhile to explore this type of bit. Obviously, there is some skill and patience required to use these accurately.
> 
> D. There are also a number of speciality (and expensive) bits used with lathes to make long holes in gun barrels, lamps, etc. These are somewhat similar to shell bits and are called 'D' bits. Those are beyond the scope of what I am trying to present here.
> 
> And, just for giggles, I'll mention something called a 'boring bar' which boatbuilders use to drill out for propeller shafts, but these are not properly drill bits in themselves as they need a pilot hole which must first be drilled with one of the above mentioned type bits.
> 
> *2. Drilling 'part of a hole':*
> 
> Here are some common-sense tips for drilling 'parts' of a hole, i.e. half or other fraction of a hole's diameter at the edge of something. For example, you may need a series of half circles in the edge of a plank to hold bottle necks in a wine rack or something like that. You can use a jig saw, or band saw and try to deal with the irregular hole which results,
> Or,
> 
> You can cut or drill your holes down the middle of a plank and then cut that through the holes into two equal width pieces with a saw;
> Or you can,
> 
> Clamp a piece of waste material of the same thickness next to your stock, locate the center of your hole so your drill cuts away as much as you need for the partial hole in your stock. This works with augers, twist drill bits, Forstner bits, hole saws or whatever and is very accurate. See illustration and photos following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you need to make 'part holes' of longer lengths, you can use the same method at the edges of your working stock. The nice thing about this is you can produce partial holes limited only by the depth capacity of your bit or hole saw. See illustration and photos following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Links to pertinent information:
> ① http://www.answers.com/topic/faying-surface
> ② http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=57713&cat=1,180,42240,53317&ap=1
> ③ http://toolmakingart.com/2011/02/27/how-to-make-an-octagonal-handle-shell-auger-and-straight-drilling-guide/


Nice picture and description. I can see that the boring bar would make a nice straight hole.

Sometimes I wonder how oil well drillers can snake the hole any direction they want.


----------



## davegutz

GnarlyErik said:


> *MORE than you ever wanted to know about HOLES!*
> 
> Don't get too excited - this isn't an article on porn or sex, but only about making holes in wood! There are times when you need a hole in wood which becomes a challenge, even with the right sort and size bit. Here's how to deal with some of the more common challenges:
> 
> *1. Drilling long holes accurately*:
> 
> A. By far the easiest way is by making a shallow saw kerf in the "Faying Surface"①. These are then joined together by glueing or other means, with the kerfs mirroring each other, i.e., face to face. After joining, the hole is made using a spiral auger with a lead screw entering the saw kerfs. The lead screw will follow the kerf unless it encounters a knot or irregular spot. Needless to say, you must go slowly and carefully and clear the chips often. If the bit starts to bind it may mean it is getting off track. This works with brad point bits too up to a point (pardon the pun!), but these are more likely to wander since the bit is not supported on its sides its full length, which seems to be an important requirement for any tool drilling long, deep holes. Regular machinist type twist bits do not work nearly as well as augers unless the saw kerfs are quite wide.
> 
> B. Of course there are times you must drill a long, deep hole when you don't have the option of glueing two pieces together with sawn kerfs. Here, you might use a 'Barefoot Auger'; A barefoot auger is a special bit used by shipwrights and is similar to a spiral auger with no lead screw. These can drill quite long holes, but must be very carefully started in exactly the right direction. Even then, it the bit hits a knot or hard place it can change direction on you. Shipwrights often make a special 'guides' to get the bits started in the proper direction usually consisting of two pieces of wood at right angles to each other and squared at the bottom (or beveled, if the hole is to be at an angle). Other sorts of guides 'sandwich' the part to be drilled with drill guides to keep the bit centered along its length. You can make a sort of barefoot auger from an old auger by cutting off the lead screw, but it will not have the same 'foot' as a bit intended and manufactured as barefoot, and therefore will not work nearly as well.
> 
> C. Use a 'Spoon Bit' or 'Shell Auger'; A spoon bit is an ancient type still used by chair, lamp, and instrument makers to bore long holes in things like chair backs, lamps and flutes. These are usually carefully hand driven with a bit stock, or twist handle. Spoon bits today are fairly expensive. Lee Valley sells one type.② You can also make your own and here is an article which shows how in detail.③ If you find yourself making a lot of long, deep holes it would be worthwhile to explore this type of bit. Obviously, there is some skill and patience required to use these accurately.
> 
> D. There are also a number of speciality (and expensive) bits used with lathes to make long holes in gun barrels, lamps, etc. These are somewhat similar to shell bits and are called 'D' bits. Those are beyond the scope of what I am trying to present here.
> 
> And, just for giggles, I'll mention something called a 'boring bar' which boatbuilders use to drill out for propeller shafts, but these are not properly drill bits in themselves as they need a pilot hole which must first be drilled with one of the above mentioned type bits.
> 
> *2. Drilling 'part of a hole':*
> 
> Here are some common-sense tips for drilling 'parts' of a hole, i.e. half or other fraction of a hole's diameter at the edge of something. For example, you may need a series of half circles in the edge of a plank to hold bottle necks in a wine rack or something like that. You can use a jig saw, or band saw and try to deal with the irregular hole which results,
> Or,
> 
> You can cut or drill your holes down the middle of a plank and then cut that through the holes into two equal width pieces with a saw;
> Or you can,
> 
> Clamp a piece of waste material of the same thickness next to your stock, locate the center of your hole so your drill cuts away as much as you need for the partial hole in your stock. This works with augers, twist drill bits, Forstner bits, hole saws or whatever and is very accurate. See illustration and photos following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you need to make 'part holes' of longer lengths, you can use the same method at the edges of your working stock. The nice thing about this is you can produce partial holes limited only by the depth capacity of your bit or hole saw. See illustration and photos following:
> 
> 
> 
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> Links to pertinent information:
> ① http://www.answers.com/topic/faying-surface
> ② http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=57713&cat=1,180,42240,53317&ap=1
> ③ http://toolmakingart.com/2011/02/27/how-to-make-an-octagonal-handle-shell-auger-and-straight-drilling-guide/


http://www.eia.gov/pub/oil_gas/natural_gas/analysis_publications/drilling_sideways_well_technology/pdf/tr0565.pdf

pipe stabilizers bottom of page 2. If you want to turn the hole you reach down and use a block to nudge the bit the direction you want to go. Similar reason a pilot hole nudges a bit straight.

We could use that idea to straighten a hole that's headed crooked. Seems like we woodworkers have developed good ways to stay straight.


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## stefang

GnarlyErik said:


> *MORE than you ever wanted to know about HOLES!*
> 
> Don't get too excited - this isn't an article on porn or sex, but only about making holes in wood! There are times when you need a hole in wood which becomes a challenge, even with the right sort and size bit. Here's how to deal with some of the more common challenges:
> 
> *1. Drilling long holes accurately*:
> 
> A. By far the easiest way is by making a shallow saw kerf in the "Faying Surface"①. These are then joined together by glueing or other means, with the kerfs mirroring each other, i.e., face to face. After joining, the hole is made using a spiral auger with a lead screw entering the saw kerfs. The lead screw will follow the kerf unless it encounters a knot or irregular spot. Needless to say, you must go slowly and carefully and clear the chips often. If the bit starts to bind it may mean it is getting off track. This works with brad point bits too up to a point (pardon the pun!), but these are more likely to wander since the bit is not supported on its sides its full length, which seems to be an important requirement for any tool drilling long, deep holes. Regular machinist type twist bits do not work nearly as well as augers unless the saw kerfs are quite wide.
> 
> B. Of course there are times you must drill a long, deep hole when you don't have the option of glueing two pieces together with sawn kerfs. Here, you might use a 'Barefoot Auger'; A barefoot auger is a special bit used by shipwrights and is similar to a spiral auger with no lead screw. These can drill quite long holes, but must be very carefully started in exactly the right direction. Even then, it the bit hits a knot or hard place it can change direction on you. Shipwrights often make a special 'guides' to get the bits started in the proper direction usually consisting of two pieces of wood at right angles to each other and squared at the bottom (or beveled, if the hole is to be at an angle). Other sorts of guides 'sandwich' the part to be drilled with drill guides to keep the bit centered along its length. You can make a sort of barefoot auger from an old auger by cutting off the lead screw, but it will not have the same 'foot' as a bit intended and manufactured as barefoot, and therefore will not work nearly as well.
> 
> C. Use a 'Spoon Bit' or 'Shell Auger'; A spoon bit is an ancient type still used by chair, lamp, and instrument makers to bore long holes in things like chair backs, lamps and flutes. These are usually carefully hand driven with a bit stock, or twist handle. Spoon bits today are fairly expensive. Lee Valley sells one type.② You can also make your own and here is an article which shows how in detail.③ If you find yourself making a lot of long, deep holes it would be worthwhile to explore this type of bit. Obviously, there is some skill and patience required to use these accurately.
> 
> D. There are also a number of speciality (and expensive) bits used with lathes to make long holes in gun barrels, lamps, etc. These are somewhat similar to shell bits and are called 'D' bits. Those are beyond the scope of what I am trying to present here.
> 
> And, just for giggles, I'll mention something called a 'boring bar' which boatbuilders use to drill out for propeller shafts, but these are not properly drill bits in themselves as they need a pilot hole which must first be drilled with one of the above mentioned type bits.
> 
> *2. Drilling 'part of a hole':*
> 
> Here are some common-sense tips for drilling 'parts' of a hole, i.e. half or other fraction of a hole's diameter at the edge of something. For example, you may need a series of half circles in the edge of a plank to hold bottle necks in a wine rack or something like that. You can use a jig saw, or band saw and try to deal with the irregular hole which results,
> Or,
> 
> You can cut or drill your holes down the middle of a plank and then cut that through the holes into two equal width pieces with a saw;
> Or you can,
> 
> Clamp a piece of waste material of the same thickness next to your stock, locate the center of your hole so your drill cuts away as much as you need for the partial hole in your stock. This works with augers, twist drill bits, Forstner bits, hole saws or whatever and is very accurate. See illustration and photos following:
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> If you need to make 'part holes' of longer lengths, you can use the same method at the edges of your working stock. The nice thing about this is you can produce partial holes limited only by the depth capacity of your bit or hole saw. See illustration and photos following:
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> Links to pertinent information:
> ① http://www.answers.com/topic/faying-surface
> ② http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=57713&cat=1,180,42240,53317&ap=1
> ③ http://toolmakingart.com/2011/02/27/how-to-make-an-octagonal-handle-shell-auger-and-straight-drilling-guide/


Great blog with lots of good info Eric. I have a long shafted spoon bit for my lathe which I bought to make cord holes for turned lamps. It works great. When I have two boards glued up with a hole running lengthwise I just rout half holes on each piece providing I have a round nosed bit that will do the job, otherwise the sawkerf is the way to go. I wish I had some boat building experience. There sure is a lot to learn about woodworking there.


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## GnarlyErik

*Making Long, Round Things in Wood - with the Norwegian Dowel Cutter*

Sometimes you need long round parts made from wood. Prior to the 19th century, specially made wooden dowels often served where nails, screws and bolts are used today. For instance, in barn building and shipbuilding, 'trunnels' were used to fasten timbers together and planks to a ships ribs. Outside of lacking the strength of of metal, trunnels are not affected by electrolysis and do not rust, important considerations in ships - although of course they can eventually rot. The word 'trunnel' comes from a corruption of the words 'trenail' or 'tree nail'. Who'd a-thunk?

Today if you need long round things made from wood the first recourse is usually a lathe - but lathes are often not available and all lathes have their limitations. Here I will try to present a way to show how to make long, round wooden things without a lathe, quicker than with a lathe, more accurately than a lathe can do, and longer than most lathes can do. Tall order, right?

Not really, since almost anyone can easily make a 'Norwegian dowel cutter' - also known by other names. Just an aside here: There is a complete genre of ethnic jokes similar to 'Polish' jokes, except they are about Norwegians. I feel entitled to make such jokes since my father immigrated from Norway as a young man and I am half Norwegian. On the other hand, my father often said to me back when I was a teenager, "Son, you are half Norwegian, and the other half a complete sh*ta$$!" I'm still not sure exactly what he meant by that. Anyway, back to the Norwegian dowel cutter.

This is an easily made tool, similar in operation to a big pencil sharpener except the 'pencil' rotates instead of the sharpener. The following pictures explain things pretty well I think. This tool consists of a wooden 'die' of hardwood, bored through the same diameter of the dowel or rod you wish to make - or a bit over:










A. A custom cutter is made from a suitable piece of steel, configured to fit the die. This tool is a bit like the tenon cutters you can buy, except this one is not limited as to depth - you can make dowels or any length you have the stock for. You can make this apparatus in an hour or so, for any diameter rod or dowel you wish to make, up to about 3" or so. It is good to make a tang on the die to aid in clamping to your workbench - see pictures. Note that the cutter has a beveled starter side to accept stock that is not round;










B. The cutter can be made from any piece of suitable hardened steel. I Often use an old saw blade or something similar. Cutting this hardened material is easy with a small hand grinder equipped with a cut-off disc. The working edges are keenly sharpened, and the cutter affixed to the die as shown. Note the scores made with a grinder on the back side of the cutter to help keep it clamped tightly in position in operation.





































C. Square your stock about 1/8" over, then eight-side (see http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328. The eight-siding can be quickly done by hand or power plane, jointer, or even a planer equipped with a suitable jig.

D. Since the stock must rotate thru the die and cutter, you must spin it. You can do this by hand (very laborious!), or far better, use a drill motor equipped with a 'Norwegian Nut driver'. See photos. This driver is self-explanatory and works great. The 'socket' should be made of hardwood, of sufficient thickness to allow about a 1" deep socket, plus enough material to accept a 3/8" or 1/2" carriage bolt. (Need I say here it is always good to work from 'the center out' by drilling the hole for your bolt first, then make the socket, then cut the outside edge?) The bolt must be double-nutted on the driver side since clockwise rotation will tend to loosen a single nut. But of course I guess you could always run things in reverse . . . . hmm. A note here about the size of the nut driver; if you want to make more than one size of rod, it is good to settle on a single size for your driver - like a 1" square. Your working stock can then be squared on the driven end to a common size for your driver.





































E. In operation, the stock is turned through the die and cutter apparatus. The cutter is adjusted to just a tiny fraction less than the hole diameter of the die. You should experiment a little to get everything adjusted just so. Once set, you will be amazed at how quickly and accurately this little set up can make rods for you. Hardwood is the best material for making rods and dowels, but with a properly sharpened cutter, you can do softwood rods almost as well - these pictures show making a dowel of soft pine.

This apparatus can also be used with a lathe, by starting it on one end of your stock before it is chucked into the lathe. With the lathe running at a slow speed, the die and cutter is simply held firmly and run down the length of your stock - giving you a consistent diameter the full length without calipers. If you use a lathe, try clamping your cutter to a longer piece of material for better control. It goes without saying you should always work slowly and deliberately, so as not to ruin material, and more importantly, hurt yourself or someone else!

I hope you find this useful . .


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## toeachhisown (Eddie)

GnarlyErik said:


> *Making Long, Round Things in Wood - with the Norwegian Dowel Cutter*
> 
> Sometimes you need long round parts made from wood. Prior to the 19th century, specially made wooden dowels often served where nails, screws and bolts are used today. For instance, in barn building and shipbuilding, 'trunnels' were used to fasten timbers together and planks to a ships ribs. Outside of lacking the strength of of metal, trunnels are not affected by electrolysis and do not rust, important considerations in ships - although of course they can eventually rot. The word 'trunnel' comes from a corruption of the words 'trenail' or 'tree nail'. Who'd a-thunk?
> 
> Today if you need long round things made from wood the first recourse is usually a lathe - but lathes are often not available and all lathes have their limitations. Here I will try to present a way to show how to make long, round wooden things without a lathe, quicker than with a lathe, more accurately than a lathe can do, and longer than most lathes can do. Tall order, right?
> 
> Not really, since almost anyone can easily make a 'Norwegian dowel cutter' - also known by other names. Just an aside here: There is a complete genre of ethnic jokes similar to 'Polish' jokes, except they are about Norwegians. I feel entitled to make such jokes since my father immigrated from Norway as a young man and I am half Norwegian. On the other hand, my father often said to me back when I was a teenager, "Son, you are half Norwegian, and the other half a complete sh*ta$$!" I'm still not sure exactly what he meant by that. Anyway, back to the Norwegian dowel cutter.
> 
> This is an easily made tool, similar in operation to a big pencil sharpener except the 'pencil' rotates instead of the sharpener. The following pictures explain things pretty well I think. This tool consists of a wooden 'die' of hardwood, bored through the same diameter of the dowel or rod you wish to make - or a bit over:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A. A custom cutter is made from a suitable piece of steel, configured to fit the die. This tool is a bit like the tenon cutters you can buy, except this one is not limited as to depth - you can make dowels or any length you have the stock for. You can make this apparatus in an hour or so, for any diameter rod or dowel you wish to make, up to about 3" or so. It is good to make a tang on the die to aid in clamping to your workbench - see pictures. Note that the cutter has a beveled starter side to accept stock that is not round;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B. The cutter can be made from any piece of suitable hardened steel. I Often use an old saw blade or something similar. Cutting this hardened material is easy with a small hand grinder equipped with a cut-off disc. The working edges are keenly sharpened, and the cutter affixed to the die as shown. Note the scores made with a grinder on the back side of the cutter to help keep it clamped tightly in position in operation.
> 
> 
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> 
> C. Square your stock about 1/8" over, then eight-side (see http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328. The eight-siding can be quickly done by hand or power plane, jointer, or even a planer equipped with a suitable jig.
> 
> D. Since the stock must rotate thru the die and cutter, you must spin it. You can do this by hand (very laborious!), or far better, use a drill motor equipped with a 'Norwegian Nut driver'. See photos. This driver is self-explanatory and works great. The 'socket' should be made of hardwood, of sufficient thickness to allow about a 1" deep socket, plus enough material to accept a 3/8" or 1/2" carriage bolt. (Need I say here it is always good to work from 'the center out' by drilling the hole for your bolt first, then make the socket, then cut the outside edge?) The bolt must be double-nutted on the driver side since clockwise rotation will tend to loosen a single nut. But of course I guess you could always run things in reverse . . . . hmm. A note here about the size of the nut driver; if you want to make more than one size of rod, it is good to settle on a single size for your driver - like a 1" square. Your working stock can then be squared on the driven end to a common size for your driver.
> 
> 
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> 
> E. In operation, the stock is turned through the die and cutter apparatus. The cutter is adjusted to just a tiny fraction less than the hole diameter of the die. You should experiment a little to get everything adjusted just so. Once set, you will be amazed at how quickly and accurately this little set up can make rods for you. Hardwood is the best material for making rods and dowels, but with a properly sharpened cutter, you can do softwood rods almost as well - these pictures show making a dowel of soft pine.
> 
> This apparatus can also be used with a lathe, by starting it on one end of your stock before it is chucked into the lathe. With the lathe running at a slow speed, the die and cutter is simply held firmly and run down the length of your stock - giving you a consistent diameter the full length without calipers. If you use a lathe, try clamping your cutter to a longer piece of material for better control. It goes without saying you should always work slowly and deliberately, so as not to ruin material, and more importantly, hurt yourself or someone else!
> 
> I hope you find this useful . .


love your tips ,you have a vast knowledge of this craft thanks for sharing it , it may just be my end but the link http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328)
want work when i tried it on your blog section but dose on my comment post anyways thanks


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## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Making Long, Round Things in Wood - with the Norwegian Dowel Cutter*
> 
> Sometimes you need long round parts made from wood. Prior to the 19th century, specially made wooden dowels often served where nails, screws and bolts are used today. For instance, in barn building and shipbuilding, 'trunnels' were used to fasten timbers together and planks to a ships ribs. Outside of lacking the strength of of metal, trunnels are not affected by electrolysis and do not rust, important considerations in ships - although of course they can eventually rot. The word 'trunnel' comes from a corruption of the words 'trenail' or 'tree nail'. Who'd a-thunk?
> 
> Today if you need long round things made from wood the first recourse is usually a lathe - but lathes are often not available and all lathes have their limitations. Here I will try to present a way to show how to make long, round wooden things without a lathe, quicker than with a lathe, more accurately than a lathe can do, and longer than most lathes can do. Tall order, right?
> 
> Not really, since almost anyone can easily make a 'Norwegian dowel cutter' - also known by other names. Just an aside here: There is a complete genre of ethnic jokes similar to 'Polish' jokes, except they are about Norwegians. I feel entitled to make such jokes since my father immigrated from Norway as a young man and I am half Norwegian. On the other hand, my father often said to me back when I was a teenager, "Son, you are half Norwegian, and the other half a complete sh*ta$$!" I'm still not sure exactly what he meant by that. Anyway, back to the Norwegian dowel cutter.
> 
> This is an easily made tool, similar in operation to a big pencil sharpener except the 'pencil' rotates instead of the sharpener. The following pictures explain things pretty well I think. This tool consists of a wooden 'die' of hardwood, bored through the same diameter of the dowel or rod you wish to make - or a bit over:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A. A custom cutter is made from a suitable piece of steel, configured to fit the die. This tool is a bit like the tenon cutters you can buy, except this one is not limited as to depth - you can make dowels or any length you have the stock for. You can make this apparatus in an hour or so, for any diameter rod or dowel you wish to make, up to about 3" or so. It is good to make a tang on the die to aid in clamping to your workbench - see pictures. Note that the cutter has a beveled starter side to accept stock that is not round;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B. The cutter can be made from any piece of suitable hardened steel. I Often use an old saw blade or something similar. Cutting this hardened material is easy with a small hand grinder equipped with a cut-off disc. The working edges are keenly sharpened, and the cutter affixed to the die as shown. Note the scores made with a grinder on the back side of the cutter to help keep it clamped tightly in position in operation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C. Square your stock about 1/8" over, then eight-side (see http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328. The eight-siding can be quickly done by hand or power plane, jointer, or even a planer equipped with a suitable jig.
> 
> D. Since the stock must rotate thru the die and cutter, you must spin it. You can do this by hand (very laborious!), or far better, use a drill motor equipped with a 'Norwegian Nut driver'. See photos. This driver is self-explanatory and works great. The 'socket' should be made of hardwood, of sufficient thickness to allow about a 1" deep socket, plus enough material to accept a 3/8" or 1/2" carriage bolt. (Need I say here it is always good to work from 'the center out' by drilling the hole for your bolt first, then make the socket, then cut the outside edge?) The bolt must be double-nutted on the driver side since clockwise rotation will tend to loosen a single nut. But of course I guess you could always run things in reverse . . . . hmm. A note here about the size of the nut driver; if you want to make more than one size of rod, it is good to settle on a single size for your driver - like a 1" square. Your working stock can then be squared on the driven end to a common size for your driver.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> E. In operation, the stock is turned through the die and cutter apparatus. The cutter is adjusted to just a tiny fraction less than the hole diameter of the die. You should experiment a little to get everything adjusted just so. Once set, you will be amazed at how quickly and accurately this little set up can make rods for you. Hardwood is the best material for making rods and dowels, but with a properly sharpened cutter, you can do softwood rods almost as well - these pictures show making a dowel of soft pine.
> 
> This apparatus can also be used with a lathe, by starting it on one end of your stock before it is chucked into the lathe. With the lathe running at a slow speed, the die and cutter is simply held firmly and run down the length of your stock - giving you a consistent diameter the full length without calipers. If you use a lathe, try clamping your cutter to a longer piece of material for better control. It goes without saying you should always work slowly and deliberately, so as not to ruin material, and more importantly, hurt yourself or someone else!
> 
> I hope you find this useful . .


Thanks Eddie,

I went back to correct the link. Evidently I should not have used the punctuation I did. I think it works OK now. Thanks for pointing this out!

Cheers,
Erik


----------



## JR45

GnarlyErik said:


> *Making Long, Round Things in Wood - with the Norwegian Dowel Cutter*
> 
> Sometimes you need long round parts made from wood. Prior to the 19th century, specially made wooden dowels often served where nails, screws and bolts are used today. For instance, in barn building and shipbuilding, 'trunnels' were used to fasten timbers together and planks to a ships ribs. Outside of lacking the strength of of metal, trunnels are not affected by electrolysis and do not rust, important considerations in ships - although of course they can eventually rot. The word 'trunnel' comes from a corruption of the words 'trenail' or 'tree nail'. Who'd a-thunk?
> 
> Today if you need long round things made from wood the first recourse is usually a lathe - but lathes are often not available and all lathes have their limitations. Here I will try to present a way to show how to make long, round wooden things without a lathe, quicker than with a lathe, more accurately than a lathe can do, and longer than most lathes can do. Tall order, right?
> 
> Not really, since almost anyone can easily make a 'Norwegian dowel cutter' - also known by other names. Just an aside here: There is a complete genre of ethnic jokes similar to 'Polish' jokes, except they are about Norwegians. I feel entitled to make such jokes since my father immigrated from Norway as a young man and I am half Norwegian. On the other hand, my father often said to me back when I was a teenager, "Son, you are half Norwegian, and the other half a complete sh*ta$$!" I'm still not sure exactly what he meant by that. Anyway, back to the Norwegian dowel cutter.
> 
> This is an easily made tool, similar in operation to a big pencil sharpener except the 'pencil' rotates instead of the sharpener. The following pictures explain things pretty well I think. This tool consists of a wooden 'die' of hardwood, bored through the same diameter of the dowel or rod you wish to make - or a bit over:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A. A custom cutter is made from a suitable piece of steel, configured to fit the die. This tool is a bit like the tenon cutters you can buy, except this one is not limited as to depth - you can make dowels or any length you have the stock for. You can make this apparatus in an hour or so, for any diameter rod or dowel you wish to make, up to about 3" or so. It is good to make a tang on the die to aid in clamping to your workbench - see pictures. Note that the cutter has a beveled starter side to accept stock that is not round;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B. The cutter can be made from any piece of suitable hardened steel. I Often use an old saw blade or something similar. Cutting this hardened material is easy with a small hand grinder equipped with a cut-off disc. The working edges are keenly sharpened, and the cutter affixed to the die as shown. Note the scores made with a grinder on the back side of the cutter to help keep it clamped tightly in position in operation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C. Square your stock about 1/8" over, then eight-side (see http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328. The eight-siding can be quickly done by hand or power plane, jointer, or even a planer equipped with a suitable jig.
> 
> D. Since the stock must rotate thru the die and cutter, you must spin it. You can do this by hand (very laborious!), or far better, use a drill motor equipped with a 'Norwegian Nut driver'. See photos. This driver is self-explanatory and works great. The 'socket' should be made of hardwood, of sufficient thickness to allow about a 1" deep socket, plus enough material to accept a 3/8" or 1/2" carriage bolt. (Need I say here it is always good to work from 'the center out' by drilling the hole for your bolt first, then make the socket, then cut the outside edge?) The bolt must be double-nutted on the driver side since clockwise rotation will tend to loosen a single nut. But of course I guess you could always run things in reverse . . . . hmm. A note here about the size of the nut driver; if you want to make more than one size of rod, it is good to settle on a single size for your driver - like a 1" square. Your working stock can then be squared on the driven end to a common size for your driver.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> E. In operation, the stock is turned through the die and cutter apparatus. The cutter is adjusted to just a tiny fraction less than the hole diameter of the die. You should experiment a little to get everything adjusted just so. Once set, you will be amazed at how quickly and accurately this little set up can make rods for you. Hardwood is the best material for making rods and dowels, but with a properly sharpened cutter, you can do softwood rods almost as well - these pictures show making a dowel of soft pine.
> 
> This apparatus can also be used with a lathe, by starting it on one end of your stock before it is chucked into the lathe. With the lathe running at a slow speed, the die and cutter is simply held firmly and run down the length of your stock - giving you a consistent diameter the full length without calipers. If you use a lathe, try clamping your cutter to a longer piece of material for better control. It goes without saying you should always work slowly and deliberately, so as not to ruin material, and more importantly, hurt yourself or someone else!
> 
> I hope you find this useful . .


Great idea. Many thanks for sharing.
Jim


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## SFC

GnarlyErik said:


> *Making Long, Round Things in Wood - with the Norwegian Dowel Cutter*
> 
> Sometimes you need long round parts made from wood. Prior to the 19th century, specially made wooden dowels often served where nails, screws and bolts are used today. For instance, in barn building and shipbuilding, 'trunnels' were used to fasten timbers together and planks to a ships ribs. Outside of lacking the strength of of metal, trunnels are not affected by electrolysis and do not rust, important considerations in ships - although of course they can eventually rot. The word 'trunnel' comes from a corruption of the words 'trenail' or 'tree nail'. Who'd a-thunk?
> 
> Today if you need long round things made from wood the first recourse is usually a lathe - but lathes are often not available and all lathes have their limitations. Here I will try to present a way to show how to make long, round wooden things without a lathe, quicker than with a lathe, more accurately than a lathe can do, and longer than most lathes can do. Tall order, right?
> 
> Not really, since almost anyone can easily make a 'Norwegian dowel cutter' - also known by other names. Just an aside here: There is a complete genre of ethnic jokes similar to 'Polish' jokes, except they are about Norwegians. I feel entitled to make such jokes since my father immigrated from Norway as a young man and I am half Norwegian. On the other hand, my father often said to me back when I was a teenager, "Son, you are half Norwegian, and the other half a complete sh*ta$$!" I'm still not sure exactly what he meant by that. Anyway, back to the Norwegian dowel cutter.
> 
> This is an easily made tool, similar in operation to a big pencil sharpener except the 'pencil' rotates instead of the sharpener. The following pictures explain things pretty well I think. This tool consists of a wooden 'die' of hardwood, bored through the same diameter of the dowel or rod you wish to make - or a bit over:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A. A custom cutter is made from a suitable piece of steel, configured to fit the die. This tool is a bit like the tenon cutters you can buy, except this one is not limited as to depth - you can make dowels or any length you have the stock for. You can make this apparatus in an hour or so, for any diameter rod or dowel you wish to make, up to about 3" or so. It is good to make a tang on the die to aid in clamping to your workbench - see pictures. Note that the cutter has a beveled starter side to accept stock that is not round;
> 
> 
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> 
> B. The cutter can be made from any piece of suitable hardened steel. I Often use an old saw blade or something similar. Cutting this hardened material is easy with a small hand grinder equipped with a cut-off disc. The working edges are keenly sharpened, and the cutter affixed to the die as shown. Note the scores made with a grinder on the back side of the cutter to help keep it clamped tightly in position in operation.
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> C. Square your stock about 1/8" over, then eight-side (see http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328. The eight-siding can be quickly done by hand or power plane, jointer, or even a planer equipped with a suitable jig.
> 
> D. Since the stock must rotate thru the die and cutter, you must spin it. You can do this by hand (very laborious!), or far better, use a drill motor equipped with a 'Norwegian Nut driver'. See photos. This driver is self-explanatory and works great. The 'socket' should be made of hardwood, of sufficient thickness to allow about a 1" deep socket, plus enough material to accept a 3/8" or 1/2" carriage bolt. (Need I say here it is always good to work from 'the center out' by drilling the hole for your bolt first, then make the socket, then cut the outside edge?) The bolt must be double-nutted on the driver side since clockwise rotation will tend to loosen a single nut. But of course I guess you could always run things in reverse . . . . hmm. A note here about the size of the nut driver; if you want to make more than one size of rod, it is good to settle on a single size for your driver - like a 1" square. Your working stock can then be squared on the driven end to a common size for your driver.
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> E. In operation, the stock is turned through the die and cutter apparatus. The cutter is adjusted to just a tiny fraction less than the hole diameter of the die. You should experiment a little to get everything adjusted just so. Once set, you will be amazed at how quickly and accurately this little set up can make rods for you. Hardwood is the best material for making rods and dowels, but with a properly sharpened cutter, you can do softwood rods almost as well - these pictures show making a dowel of soft pine.
> 
> This apparatus can also be used with a lathe, by starting it on one end of your stock before it is chucked into the lathe. With the lathe running at a slow speed, the die and cutter is simply held firmly and run down the length of your stock - giving you a consistent diameter the full length without calipers. If you use a lathe, try clamping your cutter to a longer piece of material for better control. It goes without saying you should always work slowly and deliberately, so as not to ruin material, and more importantly, hurt yourself or someone else!
> 
> I hope you find this useful . .


I like the do it yourself tooling. I have many old factory made tools in my shop, but some tools have to be made and can't be bought. The old 19th century cast iron foundries are no longer producing stuff like this, and finding an old one in serviceable condition is a dicey proposition at best.


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## Octavius

GnarlyErik said:


> *Making Long, Round Things in Wood - with the Norwegian Dowel Cutter*
> 
> Sometimes you need long round parts made from wood. Prior to the 19th century, specially made wooden dowels often served where nails, screws and bolts are used today. For instance, in barn building and shipbuilding, 'trunnels' were used to fasten timbers together and planks to a ships ribs. Outside of lacking the strength of of metal, trunnels are not affected by electrolysis and do not rust, important considerations in ships - although of course they can eventually rot. The word 'trunnel' comes from a corruption of the words 'trenail' or 'tree nail'. Who'd a-thunk?
> 
> Today if you need long round things made from wood the first recourse is usually a lathe - but lathes are often not available and all lathes have their limitations. Here I will try to present a way to show how to make long, round wooden things without a lathe, quicker than with a lathe, more accurately than a lathe can do, and longer than most lathes can do. Tall order, right?
> 
> Not really, since almost anyone can easily make a 'Norwegian dowel cutter' - also known by other names. Just an aside here: There is a complete genre of ethnic jokes similar to 'Polish' jokes, except they are about Norwegians. I feel entitled to make such jokes since my father immigrated from Norway as a young man and I am half Norwegian. On the other hand, my father often said to me back when I was a teenager, "Son, you are half Norwegian, and the other half a complete sh*ta$$!" I'm still not sure exactly what he meant by that. Anyway, back to the Norwegian dowel cutter.
> 
> This is an easily made tool, similar in operation to a big pencil sharpener except the 'pencil' rotates instead of the sharpener. The following pictures explain things pretty well I think. This tool consists of a wooden 'die' of hardwood, bored through the same diameter of the dowel or rod you wish to make - or a bit over:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A. A custom cutter is made from a suitable piece of steel, configured to fit the die. This tool is a bit like the tenon cutters you can buy, except this one is not limited as to depth - you can make dowels or any length you have the stock for. You can make this apparatus in an hour or so, for any diameter rod or dowel you wish to make, up to about 3" or so. It is good to make a tang on the die to aid in clamping to your workbench - see pictures. Note that the cutter has a beveled starter side to accept stock that is not round;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B. The cutter can be made from any piece of suitable hardened steel. I Often use an old saw blade or something similar. Cutting this hardened material is easy with a small hand grinder equipped with a cut-off disc. The working edges are keenly sharpened, and the cutter affixed to the die as shown. Note the scores made with a grinder on the back side of the cutter to help keep it clamped tightly in position in operation.
> 
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> 
> C. Square your stock about 1/8" over, then eight-side (see http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/33328. The eight-siding can be quickly done by hand or power plane, jointer, or even a planer equipped with a suitable jig.
> 
> D. Since the stock must rotate thru the die and cutter, you must spin it. You can do this by hand (very laborious!), or far better, use a drill motor equipped with a 'Norwegian Nut driver'. See photos. This driver is self-explanatory and works great. The 'socket' should be made of hardwood, of sufficient thickness to allow about a 1" deep socket, plus enough material to accept a 3/8" or 1/2" carriage bolt. (Need I say here it is always good to work from 'the center out' by drilling the hole for your bolt first, then make the socket, then cut the outside edge?) The bolt must be double-nutted on the driver side since clockwise rotation will tend to loosen a single nut. But of course I guess you could always run things in reverse . . . . hmm. A note here about the size of the nut driver; if you want to make more than one size of rod, it is good to settle on a single size for your driver - like a 1" square. Your working stock can then be squared on the driven end to a common size for your driver.
> 
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> E. In operation, the stock is turned through the die and cutter apparatus. The cutter is adjusted to just a tiny fraction less than the hole diameter of the die. You should experiment a little to get everything adjusted just so. Once set, you will be amazed at how quickly and accurately this little set up can make rods for you. Hardwood is the best material for making rods and dowels, but with a properly sharpened cutter, you can do softwood rods almost as well - these pictures show making a dowel of soft pine.
> 
> This apparatus can also be used with a lathe, by starting it on one end of your stock before it is chucked into the lathe. With the lathe running at a slow speed, the die and cutter is simply held firmly and run down the length of your stock - giving you a consistent diameter the full length without calipers. If you use a lathe, try clamping your cutter to a longer piece of material for better control. It goes without saying you should always work slowly and deliberately, so as not to ruin material, and more importantly, hurt yourself or someone else!
> 
> I hope you find this useful . .


I'm seriously impressed, Erik.
And an excellent presentation.
Thanks for the inspiration.


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## GnarlyErik

*Duplicating Parts in Wood and Smoothing Curves*

Let's say you need to made two, three or even four parts in wood, all precisely the same size and shape. It is straightforward and fairly easy to make your parts if they are all rectangular and can be done on the table saw. But, what if they are curved or irregular in shape, and you only need a few? The following technique may seem elementary, but it is surprising how many people aren't familiar with this idea. Simply put, this is as easy as making two or more parts at once, in one setup, then separating them apart into component pieces.

Here's how it is done:

1. Mill out enough stock for your several pieces to the proper thickness, making sure there is enough stock of proper width and length to make all pieces;

2. Rough cut your stock to width and length. From here there are two approaches;

a. Using a pattern made for your stock, rough cut each piece to shape about 1/8" over all around (easier, takes a little longer);

b. Proceed without rough cutting to size (faster, easier to keep squared, so long as your saw blade is perfectly square to the table);

3. Glue all your parts together in a stack as follows:

a. Use a glue thinned down about 1:1 with glue and thinner. If using white glue, water is a thinner. I use something called 'School Glue' which is made for school art projects and is cheap and easy to get;

b. Apply a coating of thinned glue to one part, then a layer of newspaper, more glue, the next part, and so on. Make sure there is a layer of newspaper or other thin paper between each part, and each part is accurately aligned with its neighbor. Clamp all together tightly and allow the glue to set.

3. When the glue has set, all the parts may be worked and shaped ① as one piece, making sure to use your square to keep all edges squared to the side face of the work. The thinned glue will hold everything together nicely until you are satisfied;

4. When the shaping is done, gently separate each piece from its neighbor with a chisel or screwdriver. I usually leave a little extra material at the ends for this purpose, which is trimmed off later. The pieces will separate within the paper, leaving a paper/glue residue on the matching surfaces. This will easily sand off, leaving you with perfectly matched parts!























































Another way sometimes used for making two pieces only is not quite as easy, although it is the same idea. This is to use stock sufficient in thickness to allow for the finished thickness of both parts, plus an allowance for finish planing. After shaping, this is then resawn through the middle and each piece planed back to the desired finish thickness. This is often done in boatbuilding when planking a wooden boat. A plank made for one side should exactly match one in the same place on the opposite side as closely as possible, so they are sometimes made this way, then beveled after they are sawn apart and planed to the finish thickness.

If you are in production work making many identical parts, you likely are already familiar with making a pattern for each part for a router/shaper to follow.

① A note here about making your curves smooth. The eye is a curious and easily fooled organ, and can easily mislead your senses. Color or texture changes in your material can make you think there is a bump, or that a curve is smooth when it is not.

One sure way to check the smoothness of a curve is with a bendy straightedge or piece of wood made for the purpose. Boatbuilders call the tool they use to check curves a 'Fairing Batten'. This is made from a straight-grained wood like pine, and usually square or rectangular in section, and bendy enough to make the curve without breaking. But, any bendy straightedge or other material works just as well for short curves so long as it has no 'hard' spots.

This batten or straightedge is laid on the curve in question and tacked or clamped in position. Any deviation in the smoothness of the curvature will immediately show up as a high or low spot, and then can be worked down to get your nice, smooth curve. The pictures below explain things pretty well I think.




























The particular pieces in these photographs with the fairing batten are intended as rockers for a rocking chair, so I am being extra careful to make the curves nice and smooth. Bumpy rockers on a rocking chair can be disconcerting and irritating for anyone except maybe a six-year-old to ten-year-old child!


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## Robb

GnarlyErik said:


> *Duplicating Parts in Wood and Smoothing Curves*
> 
> Let's say you need to made two, three or even four parts in wood, all precisely the same size and shape. It is straightforward and fairly easy to make your parts if they are all rectangular and can be done on the table saw. But, what if they are curved or irregular in shape, and you only need a few? The following technique may seem elementary, but it is surprising how many people aren't familiar with this idea. Simply put, this is as easy as making two or more parts at once, in one setup, then separating them apart into component pieces.
> 
> Here's how it is done:
> 
> 1. Mill out enough stock for your several pieces to the proper thickness, making sure there is enough stock of proper width and length to make all pieces;
> 
> 2. Rough cut your stock to width and length. From here there are two approaches;
> 
> a. Using a pattern made for your stock, rough cut each piece to shape about 1/8" over all around (easier, takes a little longer);
> 
> b. Proceed without rough cutting to size (faster, easier to keep squared, so long as your saw blade is perfectly square to the table);
> 
> 3. Glue all your parts together in a stack as follows:
> 
> a. Use a glue thinned down about 1:1 with glue and thinner. If using white glue, water is a thinner. I use something called 'School Glue' which is made for school art projects and is cheap and easy to get;
> 
> b. Apply a coating of thinned glue to one part, then a layer of newspaper, more glue, the next part, and so on. Make sure there is a layer of newspaper or other thin paper between each part, and each part is accurately aligned with its neighbor. Clamp all together tightly and allow the glue to set.
> 
> 3. When the glue has set, all the parts may be worked and shaped ① as one piece, making sure to use your square to keep all edges squared to the side face of the work. The thinned glue will hold everything together nicely until you are satisfied;
> 
> 4. When the shaping is done, gently separate each piece from its neighbor with a chisel or screwdriver. I usually leave a little extra material at the ends for this purpose, which is trimmed off later. The pieces will separate within the paper, leaving a paper/glue residue on the matching surfaces. This will easily sand off, leaving you with perfectly matched parts!
> 
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> 
> Another way sometimes used for making two pieces only is not quite as easy, although it is the same idea. This is to use stock sufficient in thickness to allow for the finished thickness of both parts, plus an allowance for finish planing. After shaping, this is then resawn through the middle and each piece planed back to the desired finish thickness. This is often done in boatbuilding when planking a wooden boat. A plank made for one side should exactly match one in the same place on the opposite side as closely as possible, so they are sometimes made this way, then beveled after they are sawn apart and planed to the finish thickness.
> 
> If you are in production work making many identical parts, you likely are already familiar with making a pattern for each part for a router/shaper to follow.
> 
> ① A note here about making your curves smooth. The eye is a curious and easily fooled organ, and can easily mislead your senses. Color or texture changes in your material can make you think there is a bump, or that a curve is smooth when it is not.
> 
> One sure way to check the smoothness of a curve is with a bendy straightedge or piece of wood made for the purpose. Boatbuilders call the tool they use to check curves a 'Fairing Batten'. This is made from a straight-grained wood like pine, and usually square or rectangular in section, and bendy enough to make the curve without breaking. But, any bendy straightedge or other material works just as well for short curves so long as it has no 'hard' spots.
> 
> This batten or straightedge is laid on the curve in question and tacked or clamped in position. Any deviation in the smoothness of the curvature will immediately show up as a high or low spot, and then can be worked down to get your nice, smooth curve. The pictures below explain things pretty well I think.
> 
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> 
> The particular pieces in these photographs with the fairing batten are intended as rockers for a rocking chair, so I am being extra careful to make the curves nice and smooth. Bumpy rockers on a rocking chair can be disconcerting and irritating for anyone except maybe a six-year-old to ten-year-old child!


I like the fairing batten idea especially. Good thoughts, thanks for sharing them.


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## mochoa

GnarlyErik said:


> *Duplicating Parts in Wood and Smoothing Curves*
> 
> Let's say you need to made two, three or even four parts in wood, all precisely the same size and shape. It is straightforward and fairly easy to make your parts if they are all rectangular and can be done on the table saw. But, what if they are curved or irregular in shape, and you only need a few? The following technique may seem elementary, but it is surprising how many people aren't familiar with this idea. Simply put, this is as easy as making two or more parts at once, in one setup, then separating them apart into component pieces.
> 
> Here's how it is done:
> 
> 1. Mill out enough stock for your several pieces to the proper thickness, making sure there is enough stock of proper width and length to make all pieces;
> 
> 2. Rough cut your stock to width and length. From here there are two approaches;
> 
> a. Using a pattern made for your stock, rough cut each piece to shape about 1/8" over all around (easier, takes a little longer);
> 
> b. Proceed without rough cutting to size (faster, easier to keep squared, so long as your saw blade is perfectly square to the table);
> 
> 3. Glue all your parts together in a stack as follows:
> 
> a. Use a glue thinned down about 1:1 with glue and thinner. If using white glue, water is a thinner. I use something called 'School Glue' which is made for school art projects and is cheap and easy to get;
> 
> b. Apply a coating of thinned glue to one part, then a layer of newspaper, more glue, the next part, and so on. Make sure there is a layer of newspaper or other thin paper between each part, and each part is accurately aligned with its neighbor. Clamp all together tightly and allow the glue to set.
> 
> 3. When the glue has set, all the parts may be worked and shaped ① as one piece, making sure to use your square to keep all edges squared to the side face of the work. The thinned glue will hold everything together nicely until you are satisfied;
> 
> 4. When the shaping is done, gently separate each piece from its neighbor with a chisel or screwdriver. I usually leave a little extra material at the ends for this purpose, which is trimmed off later. The pieces will separate within the paper, leaving a paper/glue residue on the matching surfaces. This will easily sand off, leaving you with perfectly matched parts!
> 
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> 
> Another way sometimes used for making two pieces only is not quite as easy, although it is the same idea. This is to use stock sufficient in thickness to allow for the finished thickness of both parts, plus an allowance for finish planing. After shaping, this is then resawn through the middle and each piece planed back to the desired finish thickness. This is often done in boatbuilding when planking a wooden boat. A plank made for one side should exactly match one in the same place on the opposite side as closely as possible, so they are sometimes made this way, then beveled after they are sawn apart and planed to the finish thickness.
> 
> If you are in production work making many identical parts, you likely are already familiar with making a pattern for each part for a router/shaper to follow.
> 
> ① A note here about making your curves smooth. The eye is a curious and easily fooled organ, and can easily mislead your senses. Color or texture changes in your material can make you think there is a bump, or that a curve is smooth when it is not.
> 
> One sure way to check the smoothness of a curve is with a bendy straightedge or piece of wood made for the purpose. Boatbuilders call the tool they use to check curves a 'Fairing Batten'. This is made from a straight-grained wood like pine, and usually square or rectangular in section, and bendy enough to make the curve without breaking. But, any bendy straightedge or other material works just as well for short curves so long as it has no 'hard' spots.
> 
> This batten or straightedge is laid on the curve in question and tacked or clamped in position. Any deviation in the smoothness of the curvature will immediately show up as a high or low spot, and then can be worked down to get your nice, smooth curve. The pictures below explain things pretty well I think.
> 
> 
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> 
> The particular pieces in these photographs with the fairing batten are intended as rockers for a rocking chair, so I am being extra careful to make the curves nice and smooth. Bumpy rockers on a rocking chair can be disconcerting and irritating for anyone except maybe a six-year-old to ten-year-old child!


Another good one, thanks for sharing.


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## GnarlyErik

*"Repeat After Me": Making identical parts in wood*

Mold makers often use of this technique when making castings patterns. Layers of wood are temporarily glued together in a way to be easily pulled apart after the carving or milling work is done. After a casting pattern is made, it is often separated into two or more parts for making a sand mold for casting. This is a useful trick when needing multiple identical parts in wood - say two identical halves of an item, etc. Of course you can use it for making more than two pieces too, within practical limitations.

The idea is to glue two or more layers together so the layered assembly may then be cut or milled to profile in one operation, then separated. The glued layers end up all being cut to the same identical profile. You can do this by nailing or screwing layers together of course, but must then worry about the nail or screw holes showing up in the finished product, not to mention the fastenings are a hazard to your saw blades and tools. Glueing everything together is one good alternative.

How are the layers separated after being cut or milled to profile? The mold maker's method makes this very easy and simple. The individual layers are separated by paper, placed between each piece as the pieces are glued up. The individual layers are pried apart after the work is done, with the separation occurring within the paper layer itself. You end up with each layer being coated with a thin film of glue and paper, since the paper splits within itself. This glue/paper film is then scraped or sanded off. (Note: Glue should be applied to BOTH sides of the paper.)

Using a slick paper seems to work best for me - like glossy newspaper advertising inserts. Regular newsprint or notepaper works too, but the slick stuff seems to part more uniformly with a thinner film of paper stuck to the pieces because the glue does not soak all the way through. Then, there is the glue. Normal white or yellow glue like Titebond™ works, but thinning the glue down helps considerably for making for a far easier separation and clean-up afterwards. A one-to-one ratio of glue to water works just fine, can be applied with a brush and is quite strong enough to hold most things together for the milling part.

Another helpful bit is to leave a piece of extra stock on one end of the glued together pieces as it is milled to profile. This is so you can insert a chisel or screwdriver to separate the pieces without damaging the main portion of the part. This extra bit is then trimmed off after things are separated. Also, a small undercut or nick in this extra bit helps as a point to introduce your chisel. See the sketches which should be self-explanatory.

I have successfully used this method for lathe stock too - when needed for making multiple pieces like wheels or rollers. As a safety measure when glueing up parts for the lathe, drill a hole on the centers and run a waxed dowel the same size as the drilled holes through the centers as the parts are glued up. The wax keeps the glue from sticking to the dowel. A thin wax coat can be put on the dowel by slightly heating it with a propane torch or heat gun while rubbing a stick of paraffin wax over it. I have also seen sprayed-on wax used but don't trust the idea much myself. To make it easy to separate the parts after the lathe work is done, use a parting tool while still on the lathe to slightly nick the edges of the pieces at the paper separators. Then a light tap with a chisel at those points will separate the pieces without marring them. The dowel may be tapped out with a slightly smaller round rod or punch.

Here's a corollary, earlier post which expands on the idea a little: http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/35605

I hope these little tricks are of help to someone!


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## toeachhisown (Eddie)

GnarlyErik said:


> *"Repeat After Me": Making identical parts in wood*
> 
> Mold makers often use of this technique when making castings patterns. Layers of wood are temporarily glued together in a way to be easily pulled apart after the carving or milling work is done. After a casting pattern is made, it is often separated into two or more parts for making a sand mold for casting. This is a useful trick when needing multiple identical parts in wood - say two identical halves of an item, etc. Of course you can use it for making more than two pieces too, within practical limitations.
> 
> The idea is to glue two or more layers together so the layered assembly may then be cut or milled to profile in one operation, then separated. The glued layers end up all being cut to the same identical profile. You can do this by nailing or screwing layers together of course, but must then worry about the nail or screw holes showing up in the finished product, not to mention the fastenings are a hazard to your saw blades and tools. Glueing everything together is one good alternative.
> 
> How are the layers separated after being cut or milled to profile? The mold maker's method makes this very easy and simple. The individual layers are separated by paper, placed between each piece as the pieces are glued up. The individual layers are pried apart after the work is done, with the separation occurring within the paper layer itself. You end up with each layer being coated with a thin film of glue and paper, since the paper splits within itself. This glue/paper film is then scraped or sanded off. (Note: Glue should be applied to BOTH sides of the paper.)
> 
> Using a slick paper seems to work best for me - like glossy newspaper advertising inserts. Regular newsprint or notepaper works too, but the slick stuff seems to part more uniformly with a thinner film of paper stuck to the pieces because the glue does not soak all the way through. Then, there is the glue. Normal white or yellow glue like Titebond™ works, but thinning the glue down helps considerably for making for a far easier separation and clean-up afterwards. A one-to-one ratio of glue to water works just fine, can be applied with a brush and is quite strong enough to hold most things together for the milling part.
> 
> Another helpful bit is to leave a piece of extra stock on one end of the glued together pieces as it is milled to profile. This is so you can insert a chisel or screwdriver to separate the pieces without damaging the main portion of the part. This extra bit is then trimmed off after things are separated. Also, a small undercut or nick in this extra bit helps as a point to introduce your chisel. See the sketches which should be self-explanatory.
> 
> I have successfully used this method for lathe stock too - when needed for making multiple pieces like wheels or rollers. As a safety measure when glueing up parts for the lathe, drill a hole on the centers and run a waxed dowel the same size as the drilled holes through the centers as the parts are glued up. The wax keeps the glue from sticking to the dowel. A thin wax coat can be put on the dowel by slightly heating it with a propane torch or heat gun while rubbing a stick of paraffin wax over it. I have also seen sprayed-on wax used but don't trust the idea much myself. To make it easy to separate the parts after the lathe work is done, use a parting tool while still on the lathe to slightly nick the edges of the pieces at the paper separators. Then a light tap with a chisel at those points will separate the pieces without marring them. The dowel may be tapped out with a slightly smaller round rod or punch.
> 
> Here's a corollary, earlier post which expands on the idea a little: http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/35605
> 
> I hope these little tricks are of help to someone!


thanks for sharing this is a big help for me , thanks and merry Christmas


----------



## HillbillyShooter

GnarlyErik said:


> *"Repeat After Me": Making identical parts in wood*
> 
> Mold makers often use of this technique when making castings patterns. Layers of wood are temporarily glued together in a way to be easily pulled apart after the carving or milling work is done. After a casting pattern is made, it is often separated into two or more parts for making a sand mold for casting. This is a useful trick when needing multiple identical parts in wood - say two identical halves of an item, etc. Of course you can use it for making more than two pieces too, within practical limitations.
> 
> The idea is to glue two or more layers together so the layered assembly may then be cut or milled to profile in one operation, then separated. The glued layers end up all being cut to the same identical profile. You can do this by nailing or screwing layers together of course, but must then worry about the nail or screw holes showing up in the finished product, not to mention the fastenings are a hazard to your saw blades and tools. Glueing everything together is one good alternative.
> 
> How are the layers separated after being cut or milled to profile? The mold maker's method makes this very easy and simple. The individual layers are separated by paper, placed between each piece as the pieces are glued up. The individual layers are pried apart after the work is done, with the separation occurring within the paper layer itself. You end up with each layer being coated with a thin film of glue and paper, since the paper splits within itself. This glue/paper film is then scraped or sanded off. (Note: Glue should be applied to BOTH sides of the paper.)
> 
> Using a slick paper seems to work best for me - like glossy newspaper advertising inserts. Regular newsprint or notepaper works too, but the slick stuff seems to part more uniformly with a thinner film of paper stuck to the pieces because the glue does not soak all the way through. Then, there is the glue. Normal white or yellow glue like Titebond™ works, but thinning the glue down helps considerably for making for a far easier separation and clean-up afterwards. A one-to-one ratio of glue to water works just fine, can be applied with a brush and is quite strong enough to hold most things together for the milling part.
> 
> Another helpful bit is to leave a piece of extra stock on one end of the glued together pieces as it is milled to profile. This is so you can insert a chisel or screwdriver to separate the pieces without damaging the main portion of the part. This extra bit is then trimmed off after things are separated. Also, a small undercut or nick in this extra bit helps as a point to introduce your chisel. See the sketches which should be self-explanatory.
> 
> I have successfully used this method for lathe stock too - when needed for making multiple pieces like wheels or rollers. As a safety measure when glueing up parts for the lathe, drill a hole on the centers and run a waxed dowel the same size as the drilled holes through the centers as the parts are glued up. The wax keeps the glue from sticking to the dowel. A thin wax coat can be put on the dowel by slightly heating it with a propane torch or heat gun while rubbing a stick of paraffin wax over it. I have also seen sprayed-on wax used but don't trust the idea much myself. To make it easy to separate the parts after the lathe work is done, use a parting tool while still on the lathe to slightly nick the edges of the pieces at the paper separators. Then a light tap with a chisel at those points will separate the pieces without marring them. The dowel may be tapped out with a slightly smaller round rod or punch.
> 
> Here's a corollary, earlier post which expands on the idea a little: http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/35605
> 
> I hope these little tricks are of help to someone!


As always, thanks for sharing your knowledge backed by experience.


----------



## Thuzmund

GnarlyErik said:


> *"Repeat After Me": Making identical parts in wood*
> 
> Mold makers often use of this technique when making castings patterns. Layers of wood are temporarily glued together in a way to be easily pulled apart after the carving or milling work is done. After a casting pattern is made, it is often separated into two or more parts for making a sand mold for casting. This is a useful trick when needing multiple identical parts in wood - say two identical halves of an item, etc. Of course you can use it for making more than two pieces too, within practical limitations.
> 
> The idea is to glue two or more layers together so the layered assembly may then be cut or milled to profile in one operation, then separated. The glued layers end up all being cut to the same identical profile. You can do this by nailing or screwing layers together of course, but must then worry about the nail or screw holes showing up in the finished product, not to mention the fastenings are a hazard to your saw blades and tools. Glueing everything together is one good alternative.
> 
> How are the layers separated after being cut or milled to profile? The mold maker's method makes this very easy and simple. The individual layers are separated by paper, placed between each piece as the pieces are glued up. The individual layers are pried apart after the work is done, with the separation occurring within the paper layer itself. You end up with each layer being coated with a thin film of glue and paper, since the paper splits within itself. This glue/paper film is then scraped or sanded off. (Note: Glue should be applied to BOTH sides of the paper.)
> 
> Using a slick paper seems to work best for me - like glossy newspaper advertising inserts. Regular newsprint or notepaper works too, but the slick stuff seems to part more uniformly with a thinner film of paper stuck to the pieces because the glue does not soak all the way through. Then, there is the glue. Normal white or yellow glue like Titebond™ works, but thinning the glue down helps considerably for making for a far easier separation and clean-up afterwards. A one-to-one ratio of glue to water works just fine, can be applied with a brush and is quite strong enough to hold most things together for the milling part.
> 
> Another helpful bit is to leave a piece of extra stock on one end of the glued together pieces as it is milled to profile. This is so you can insert a chisel or screwdriver to separate the pieces without damaging the main portion of the part. This extra bit is then trimmed off after things are separated. Also, a small undercut or nick in this extra bit helps as a point to introduce your chisel. See the sketches which should be self-explanatory.
> 
> I have successfully used this method for lathe stock too - when needed for making multiple pieces like wheels or rollers. As a safety measure when glueing up parts for the lathe, drill a hole on the centers and run a waxed dowel the same size as the drilled holes through the centers as the parts are glued up. The wax keeps the glue from sticking to the dowel. A thin wax coat can be put on the dowel by slightly heating it with a propane torch or heat gun while rubbing a stick of paraffin wax over it. I have also seen sprayed-on wax used but don't trust the idea much myself. To make it easy to separate the parts after the lathe work is done, use a parting tool while still on the lathe to slightly nick the edges of the pieces at the paper separators. Then a light tap with a chisel at those points will separate the pieces without marring them. The dowel may be tapped out with a slightly smaller round rod or punch.
> 
> Here's a corollary, earlier post which expands on the idea a little: http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/35605
> 
> I hope these little tricks are of help to someone!


This is an extrmely informative post, and your time was well spent including/preparing the visual aid. I just learned about "inside out" turnng this week, so this was a perfect coincidence. I did NOT think about constructing multiple pieces in the manner you spelled out here. Thank You!


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *"Repeat After Me": Making identical parts in wood*
> 
> Mold makers often use of this technique when making castings patterns. Layers of wood are temporarily glued together in a way to be easily pulled apart after the carving or milling work is done. After a casting pattern is made, it is often separated into two or more parts for making a sand mold for casting. This is a useful trick when needing multiple identical parts in wood - say two identical halves of an item, etc. Of course you can use it for making more than two pieces too, within practical limitations.
> 
> The idea is to glue two or more layers together so the layered assembly may then be cut or milled to profile in one operation, then separated. The glued layers end up all being cut to the same identical profile. You can do this by nailing or screwing layers together of course, but must then worry about the nail or screw holes showing up in the finished product, not to mention the fastenings are a hazard to your saw blades and tools. Glueing everything together is one good alternative.
> 
> How are the layers separated after being cut or milled to profile? The mold maker's method makes this very easy and simple. The individual layers are separated by paper, placed between each piece as the pieces are glued up. The individual layers are pried apart after the work is done, with the separation occurring within the paper layer itself. You end up with each layer being coated with a thin film of glue and paper, since the paper splits within itself. This glue/paper film is then scraped or sanded off. (Note: Glue should be applied to BOTH sides of the paper.)
> 
> Using a slick paper seems to work best for me - like glossy newspaper advertising inserts. Regular newsprint or notepaper works too, but the slick stuff seems to part more uniformly with a thinner film of paper stuck to the pieces because the glue does not soak all the way through. Then, there is the glue. Normal white or yellow glue like Titebond™ works, but thinning the glue down helps considerably for making for a far easier separation and clean-up afterwards. A one-to-one ratio of glue to water works just fine, can be applied with a brush and is quite strong enough to hold most things together for the milling part.
> 
> Another helpful bit is to leave a piece of extra stock on one end of the glued together pieces as it is milled to profile. This is so you can insert a chisel or screwdriver to separate the pieces without damaging the main portion of the part. This extra bit is then trimmed off after things are separated. Also, a small undercut or nick in this extra bit helps as a point to introduce your chisel. See the sketches which should be self-explanatory.
> 
> I have successfully used this method for lathe stock too - when needed for making multiple pieces like wheels or rollers. As a safety measure when glueing up parts for the lathe, drill a hole on the centers and run a waxed dowel the same size as the drilled holes through the centers as the parts are glued up. The wax keeps the glue from sticking to the dowel. A thin wax coat can be put on the dowel by slightly heating it with a propane torch or heat gun while rubbing a stick of paraffin wax over it. I have also seen sprayed-on wax used but don't trust the idea much myself. To make it easy to separate the parts after the lathe work is done, use a parting tool while still on the lathe to slightly nick the edges of the pieces at the paper separators. Then a light tap with a chisel at those points will separate the pieces without marring them. The dowel may be tapped out with a slightly smaller round rod or punch.
> 
> Here's a corollary, earlier post which expands on the idea a little: http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/35605
> 
> I hope these little tricks are of help to someone!


Glad to find some people found this useful!

Erik


----------



## stefang

GnarlyErik said:


> *"Repeat After Me": Making identical parts in wood*
> 
> Mold makers often use of this technique when making castings patterns. Layers of wood are temporarily glued together in a way to be easily pulled apart after the carving or milling work is done. After a casting pattern is made, it is often separated into two or more parts for making a sand mold for casting. This is a useful trick when needing multiple identical parts in wood - say two identical halves of an item, etc. Of course you can use it for making more than two pieces too, within practical limitations.
> 
> The idea is to glue two or more layers together so the layered assembly may then be cut or milled to profile in one operation, then separated. The glued layers end up all being cut to the same identical profile. You can do this by nailing or screwing layers together of course, but must then worry about the nail or screw holes showing up in the finished product, not to mention the fastenings are a hazard to your saw blades and tools. Glueing everything together is one good alternative.
> 
> How are the layers separated after being cut or milled to profile? The mold maker's method makes this very easy and simple. The individual layers are separated by paper, placed between each piece as the pieces are glued up. The individual layers are pried apart after the work is done, with the separation occurring within the paper layer itself. You end up with each layer being coated with a thin film of glue and paper, since the paper splits within itself. This glue/paper film is then scraped or sanded off. (Note: Glue should be applied to BOTH sides of the paper.)
> 
> Using a slick paper seems to work best for me - like glossy newspaper advertising inserts. Regular newsprint or notepaper works too, but the slick stuff seems to part more uniformly with a thinner film of paper stuck to the pieces because the glue does not soak all the way through. Then, there is the glue. Normal white or yellow glue like Titebond™ works, but thinning the glue down helps considerably for making for a far easier separation and clean-up afterwards. A one-to-one ratio of glue to water works just fine, can be applied with a brush and is quite strong enough to hold most things together for the milling part.
> 
> Another helpful bit is to leave a piece of extra stock on one end of the glued together pieces as it is milled to profile. This is so you can insert a chisel or screwdriver to separate the pieces without damaging the main portion of the part. This extra bit is then trimmed off after things are separated. Also, a small undercut or nick in this extra bit helps as a point to introduce your chisel. See the sketches which should be self-explanatory.
> 
> I have successfully used this method for lathe stock too - when needed for making multiple pieces like wheels or rollers. As a safety measure when glueing up parts for the lathe, drill a hole on the centers and run a waxed dowel the same size as the drilled holes through the centers as the parts are glued up. The wax keeps the glue from sticking to the dowel. A thin wax coat can be put on the dowel by slightly heating it with a propane torch or heat gun while rubbing a stick of paraffin wax over it. I have also seen sprayed-on wax used but don't trust the idea much myself. To make it easy to separate the parts after the lathe work is done, use a parting tool while still on the lathe to slightly nick the edges of the pieces at the paper separators. Then a light tap with a chisel at those points will separate the pieces without marring them. The dowel may be tapped out with a slightly smaller round rod or punch.
> 
> Here's a corollary, earlier post which expands on the idea a little: http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/35605
> 
> I hope these little tricks are of help to someone!


Great tips, thanks.


----------



## NormG

GnarlyErik said:


> *"Repeat After Me": Making identical parts in wood*
> 
> Mold makers often use of this technique when making castings patterns. Layers of wood are temporarily glued together in a way to be easily pulled apart after the carving or milling work is done. After a casting pattern is made, it is often separated into two or more parts for making a sand mold for casting. This is a useful trick when needing multiple identical parts in wood - say two identical halves of an item, etc. Of course you can use it for making more than two pieces too, within practical limitations.
> 
> The idea is to glue two or more layers together so the layered assembly may then be cut or milled to profile in one operation, then separated. The glued layers end up all being cut to the same identical profile. You can do this by nailing or screwing layers together of course, but must then worry about the nail or screw holes showing up in the finished product, not to mention the fastenings are a hazard to your saw blades and tools. Glueing everything together is one good alternative.
> 
> How are the layers separated after being cut or milled to profile? The mold maker's method makes this very easy and simple. The individual layers are separated by paper, placed between each piece as the pieces are glued up. The individual layers are pried apart after the work is done, with the separation occurring within the paper layer itself. You end up with each layer being coated with a thin film of glue and paper, since the paper splits within itself. This glue/paper film is then scraped or sanded off. (Note: Glue should be applied to BOTH sides of the paper.)
> 
> Using a slick paper seems to work best for me - like glossy newspaper advertising inserts. Regular newsprint or notepaper works too, but the slick stuff seems to part more uniformly with a thinner film of paper stuck to the pieces because the glue does not soak all the way through. Then, there is the glue. Normal white or yellow glue like Titebond™ works, but thinning the glue down helps considerably for making for a far easier separation and clean-up afterwards. A one-to-one ratio of glue to water works just fine, can be applied with a brush and is quite strong enough to hold most things together for the milling part.
> 
> Another helpful bit is to leave a piece of extra stock on one end of the glued together pieces as it is milled to profile. This is so you can insert a chisel or screwdriver to separate the pieces without damaging the main portion of the part. This extra bit is then trimmed off after things are separated. Also, a small undercut or nick in this extra bit helps as a point to introduce your chisel. See the sketches which should be self-explanatory.
> 
> I have successfully used this method for lathe stock too - when needed for making multiple pieces like wheels or rollers. As a safety measure when glueing up parts for the lathe, drill a hole on the centers and run a waxed dowel the same size as the drilled holes through the centers as the parts are glued up. The wax keeps the glue from sticking to the dowel. A thin wax coat can be put on the dowel by slightly heating it with a propane torch or heat gun while rubbing a stick of paraffin wax over it. I have also seen sprayed-on wax used but don't trust the idea much myself. To make it easy to separate the parts after the lathe work is done, use a parting tool while still on the lathe to slightly nick the edges of the pieces at the paper separators. Then a light tap with a chisel at those points will separate the pieces without marring them. The dowel may be tapped out with a slightly smaller round rod or punch.
> 
> Here's a corollary, earlier post which expands on the idea a little: http://lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/35605
> 
> I hope these little tricks are of help to someone!


Thank you for sharing a great idea


----------



## GnarlyErik

*Down and Dirty Proportional Dividers*

*Have you ever wished* to scale something up or down, either from plans or from actual objects? Then, you looked around the shop only to realize you don't have any convenient tool other than measuring with rulers and then trying to convert using sometimes shaky math - especially if using English measures in feet, inches and fractions?

(A quick aside here - metrics are so much more convenient to use! Although, it is ever so hard to make the initial roll-over and adjustment into metrics, especially for us older folk)

Presented here is an easy graphical way to build custom proportional dividers in five to ten minutes or so, made to whatever conversion ratio you may need - and once made will be independent of either metric or English scales. And the beauty of these is they cost almost nothing compared to the fancy ones you find online for $100.

*Step 1*: Grab two flat sticks 3/4" or so wide by 1/8" or so thick and 8 to12 inches long (longer sticks may be used too if desired, but are harder to handle for small dimensions);

*Step 2*: Point both ends of each stick, then cut them both to EXACTLY the same length, using 12" in this example;

*Step 3*: Now draw a circle on your shop table or on a scrap piece of plywood with a diameter the same as the lengths of your sticks, with a line drawn along the center diameter. See Fig 1;










*Step 4*: Decide on the ratio needed - in this case we use 2:1. This would enable you to quickly double, or halve any dimension selected within the range of the size of your dividers. This is a valuable aid when doing lots of conversions;

*Step 5*: Draw arcs on both sides of the diameter line at each end. One end to have arcs of radius 2" in this instance, and the other end exactly double that, or 4". See fig 2;










(For other ratios you use suitable multiples, say 1" on one end and 3" on the other for 3:1 ratio, etc. The ratio is the multiple of the arc lengths on each end);

*Step 6*: Now, place the sticks one over the other on the circle, with one end on the smaller arc and the other on its corresponding other, i.e., beginning on one end on the 2" arc and the other on the 4" arc on the OTHER side of the diameter line. It will help to weight or clamp them in place. See Fig 3:










Note that the ends of the sticks on one end will now extend slightly beyond the drawn circle, since they will no longer pass through the center of the circle. A small adjustment is now made for better accuracy, by insuring the ends are equidistant from the diameter line, AND each is the proper distance from it (4");

*Step 7*: Drill a small hole through both sticks in their centers where they intersect, sized to receive a small machine screw or bolt with nut (wing or knurled finger nuts are handy here). Bolt the sticks together snugly enough to hold the sticks in position, but loose enough to still move the sticks, and voilà! There's your proportional dividers sized for whatever multiple you select.

You can make these to any ratio you need, although anything above 3:1 tends to be increasingly inaccurate. You might even make a set with several sets of holes drilled for various ratios - or even for custom ratios like 1-5/8:1 so long as you are comfortable doing the math needed. As always, the more careful and precise your measurements, the better accuracy you will get.

If you plan to use your dividers a lot, it is very helpful to drill small holes in the ends of the sticks into which cut-off nails may be set or glued. Just be sure the resulting overall lengths are equal, including nails, and they still fit your circle.

*NOTE*: I should add these dividers may not always be 100% accurate and precise, and may vary by 5% or so, especially when used to their maximum (widest) openings. So don't use these kind for your space trajectory calculations, or lunar landing modules. That said, they will be pretty darned close when carefully made. These are meant for those (1) 'near enough' times when you need to get the job done, and it won't actually matter if you are an eighth inch off somewhere.

(1) (I actually once heard of a 'shade tree' boat repairman somewhere in Florida years ago who called his operation 'Near Enough Boatworks'. )


----------



## shipwright

GnarlyErik said:


> *Down and Dirty Proportional Dividers*
> 
> *Have you ever wished* to scale something up or down, either from plans or from actual objects? Then, you looked around the shop only to realize you don't have any convenient tool other than measuring with rulers and then trying to convert using sometimes shaky math - especially if using English measures in feet, inches and fractions?
> 
> (A quick aside here - metrics are so much more convenient to use! Although, it is ever so hard to make the initial roll-over and adjustment into metrics, especially for us older folk)
> 
> Presented here is an easy graphical way to build custom proportional dividers in five to ten minutes or so, made to whatever conversion ratio you may need - and once made will be independent of either metric or English scales. And the beauty of these is they cost almost nothing compared to the fancy ones you find online for $100.
> 
> *Step 1*: Grab two flat sticks 3/4" or so wide by 1/8" or so thick and 8 to12 inches long (longer sticks may be used too if desired, but are harder to handle for small dimensions);
> 
> *Step 2*: Point both ends of each stick, then cut them both to EXACTLY the same length, using 12" in this example;
> 
> *Step 3*: Now draw a circle on your shop table or on a scrap piece of plywood with a diameter the same as the lengths of your sticks, with a line drawn along the center diameter. See Fig 1;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Step 4*: Decide on the ratio needed - in this case we use 2:1. This would enable you to quickly double, or halve any dimension selected within the range of the size of your dividers. This is a valuable aid when doing lots of conversions;
> 
> *Step 5*: Draw arcs on both sides of the diameter line at each end. One end to have arcs of radius 2" in this instance, and the other end exactly double that, or 4". See fig 2;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (For other ratios you use suitable multiples, say 1" on one end and 3" on the other for 3:1 ratio, etc. The ratio is the multiple of the arc lengths on each end);
> 
> *Step 6*: Now, place the sticks one over the other on the circle, with one end on the smaller arc and the other on its corresponding other, i.e., beginning on one end on the 2" arc and the other on the 4" arc on the OTHER side of the diameter line. It will help to weight or clamp them in place. See Fig 3:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note that the ends of the sticks on one end will now extend slightly beyond the drawn circle, since they will no longer pass through the center of the circle. A small adjustment is now made for better accuracy, by insuring the ends are equidistant from the diameter line, AND each is the proper distance from it (4");
> 
> *Step 7*: Drill a small hole through both sticks in their centers where they intersect, sized to receive a small machine screw or bolt with nut (wing or knurled finger nuts are handy here). Bolt the sticks together snugly enough to hold the sticks in position, but loose enough to still move the sticks, and voilà! There's your proportional dividers sized for whatever multiple you select.
> 
> You can make these to any ratio you need, although anything above 3:1 tends to be increasingly inaccurate. You might even make a set with several sets of holes drilled for various ratios - or even for custom ratios like 1-5/8:1 so long as you are comfortable doing the math needed. As always, the more careful and precise your measurements, the better accuracy you will get.
> 
> If you plan to use your dividers a lot, it is very helpful to drill small holes in the ends of the sticks into which cut-off nails may be set or glued. Just be sure the resulting overall lengths are equal, including nails, and they still fit your circle.
> 
> *NOTE*: I should add these dividers may not always be 100% accurate and precise, and may vary by 5% or so, especially when used to their maximum (widest) openings. So don't use these kind for your space trajectory calculations, or lunar landing modules. That said, they will be pretty darned close when carefully made. These are meant for those (1) 'near enough' times when you need to get the job done, and it won't actually matter if you are an eighth inch off somewhere.
> 
> (1) (I actually once heard of a 'shade tree' boat repairman somewhere in Florida years ago who called his operation 'Near Enough Boatworks'. )


Thanks Eric.
Your experience is a great resource. 
Thanks again for sharing this juicy tidbit.


----------



## patron

GnarlyErik said:


> *Down and Dirty Proportional Dividers*
> 
> *Have you ever wished* to scale something up or down, either from plans or from actual objects? Then, you looked around the shop only to realize you don't have any convenient tool other than measuring with rulers and then trying to convert using sometimes shaky math - especially if using English measures in feet, inches and fractions?
> 
> (A quick aside here - metrics are so much more convenient to use! Although, it is ever so hard to make the initial roll-over and adjustment into metrics, especially for us older folk)
> 
> Presented here is an easy graphical way to build custom proportional dividers in five to ten minutes or so, made to whatever conversion ratio you may need - and once made will be independent of either metric or English scales. And the beauty of these is they cost almost nothing compared to the fancy ones you find online for $100.
> 
> *Step 1*: Grab two flat sticks 3/4" or so wide by 1/8" or so thick and 8 to12 inches long (longer sticks may be used too if desired, but are harder to handle for small dimensions);
> 
> *Step 2*: Point both ends of each stick, then cut them both to EXACTLY the same length, using 12" in this example;
> 
> *Step 3*: Now draw a circle on your shop table or on a scrap piece of plywood with a diameter the same as the lengths of your sticks, with a line drawn along the center diameter. See Fig 1;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Step 4*: Decide on the ratio needed - in this case we use 2:1. This would enable you to quickly double, or halve any dimension selected within the range of the size of your dividers. This is a valuable aid when doing lots of conversions;
> 
> *Step 5*: Draw arcs on both sides of the diameter line at each end. One end to have arcs of radius 2" in this instance, and the other end exactly double that, or 4". See fig 2;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (For other ratios you use suitable multiples, say 1" on one end and 3" on the other for 3:1 ratio, etc. The ratio is the multiple of the arc lengths on each end);
> 
> *Step 6*: Now, place the sticks one over the other on the circle, with one end on the smaller arc and the other on its corresponding other, i.e., beginning on one end on the 2" arc and the other on the 4" arc on the OTHER side of the diameter line. It will help to weight or clamp them in place. See Fig 3:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note that the ends of the sticks on one end will now extend slightly beyond the drawn circle, since they will no longer pass through the center of the circle. A small adjustment is now made for better accuracy, by insuring the ends are equidistant from the diameter line, AND each is the proper distance from it (4");
> 
> *Step 7*: Drill a small hole through both sticks in their centers where they intersect, sized to receive a small machine screw or bolt with nut (wing or knurled finger nuts are handy here). Bolt the sticks together snugly enough to hold the sticks in position, but loose enough to still move the sticks, and voilà! There's your proportional dividers sized for whatever multiple you select.
> 
> You can make these to any ratio you need, although anything above 3:1 tends to be increasingly inaccurate. You might even make a set with several sets of holes drilled for various ratios - or even for custom ratios like 1-5/8:1 so long as you are comfortable doing the math needed. As always, the more careful and precise your measurements, the better accuracy you will get.
> 
> If you plan to use your dividers a lot, it is very helpful to drill small holes in the ends of the sticks into which cut-off nails may be set or glued. Just be sure the resulting overall lengths are equal, including nails, and they still fit your circle.
> 
> *NOTE*: I should add these dividers may not always be 100% accurate and precise, and may vary by 5% or so, especially when used to their maximum (widest) openings. So don't use these kind for your space trajectory calculations, or lunar landing modules. That said, they will be pretty darned close when carefully made. These are meant for those (1) 'near enough' times when you need to get the job done, and it won't actually matter if you are an eighth inch off somewhere.
> 
> (1) (I actually once heard of a 'shade tree' boat repairman somewhere in Florida years ago who called his operation 'Near Enough Boatworks'. )


way cool eric

thanks for this tip

a real pro-portion


----------



## HillbillyShooter

GnarlyErik said:


> *Down and Dirty Proportional Dividers*
> 
> *Have you ever wished* to scale something up or down, either from plans or from actual objects? Then, you looked around the shop only to realize you don't have any convenient tool other than measuring with rulers and then trying to convert using sometimes shaky math - especially if using English measures in feet, inches and fractions?
> 
> (A quick aside here - metrics are so much more convenient to use! Although, it is ever so hard to make the initial roll-over and adjustment into metrics, especially for us older folk)
> 
> Presented here is an easy graphical way to build custom proportional dividers in five to ten minutes or so, made to whatever conversion ratio you may need - and once made will be independent of either metric or English scales. And the beauty of these is they cost almost nothing compared to the fancy ones you find online for $100.
> 
> *Step 1*: Grab two flat sticks 3/4" or so wide by 1/8" or so thick and 8 to12 inches long (longer sticks may be used too if desired, but are harder to handle for small dimensions);
> 
> *Step 2*: Point both ends of each stick, then cut them both to EXACTLY the same length, using 12" in this example;
> 
> *Step 3*: Now draw a circle on your shop table or on a scrap piece of plywood with a diameter the same as the lengths of your sticks, with a line drawn along the center diameter. See Fig 1;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Step 4*: Decide on the ratio needed - in this case we use 2:1. This would enable you to quickly double, or halve any dimension selected within the range of the size of your dividers. This is a valuable aid when doing lots of conversions;
> 
> *Step 5*: Draw arcs on both sides of the diameter line at each end. One end to have arcs of radius 2" in this instance, and the other end exactly double that, or 4". See fig 2;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (For other ratios you use suitable multiples, say 1" on one end and 3" on the other for 3:1 ratio, etc. The ratio is the multiple of the arc lengths on each end);
> 
> *Step 6*: Now, place the sticks one over the other on the circle, with one end on the smaller arc and the other on its corresponding other, i.e., beginning on one end on the 2" arc and the other on the 4" arc on the OTHER side of the diameter line. It will help to weight or clamp them in place. See Fig 3:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note that the ends of the sticks on one end will now extend slightly beyond the drawn circle, since they will no longer pass through the center of the circle. A small adjustment is now made for better accuracy, by insuring the ends are equidistant from the diameter line, AND each is the proper distance from it (4");
> 
> *Step 7*: Drill a small hole through both sticks in their centers where they intersect, sized to receive a small machine screw or bolt with nut (wing or knurled finger nuts are handy here). Bolt the sticks together snugly enough to hold the sticks in position, but loose enough to still move the sticks, and voilà! There's your proportional dividers sized for whatever multiple you select.
> 
> You can make these to any ratio you need, although anything above 3:1 tends to be increasingly inaccurate. You might even make a set with several sets of holes drilled for various ratios - or even for custom ratios like 1-5/8:1 so long as you are comfortable doing the math needed. As always, the more careful and precise your measurements, the better accuracy you will get.
> 
> If you plan to use your dividers a lot, it is very helpful to drill small holes in the ends of the sticks into which cut-off nails may be set or glued. Just be sure the resulting overall lengths are equal, including nails, and they still fit your circle.
> 
> *NOTE*: I should add these dividers may not always be 100% accurate and precise, and may vary by 5% or so, especially when used to their maximum (widest) openings. So don't use these kind for your space trajectory calculations, or lunar landing modules. That said, they will be pretty darned close when carefully made. These are meant for those (1) 'near enough' times when you need to get the job done, and it won't actually matter if you are an eighth inch off somewhere.
> 
> (1) (I actually once heard of a 'shade tree' boat repairman somewhere in Florida years ago who called his operation 'Near Enough Boatworks'. )


You, sir, are a treasure trove of knowlege. Thank you for generously sharing that knowledge and posting this blog.


----------



## Bobsboxes

GnarlyErik said:


> *Down and Dirty Proportional Dividers*
> 
> *Have you ever wished* to scale something up or down, either from plans or from actual objects? Then, you looked around the shop only to realize you don't have any convenient tool other than measuring with rulers and then trying to convert using sometimes shaky math - especially if using English measures in feet, inches and fractions?
> 
> (A quick aside here - metrics are so much more convenient to use! Although, it is ever so hard to make the initial roll-over and adjustment into metrics, especially for us older folk)
> 
> Presented here is an easy graphical way to build custom proportional dividers in five to ten minutes or so, made to whatever conversion ratio you may need - and once made will be independent of either metric or English scales. And the beauty of these is they cost almost nothing compared to the fancy ones you find online for $100.
> 
> *Step 1*: Grab two flat sticks 3/4" or so wide by 1/8" or so thick and 8 to12 inches long (longer sticks may be used too if desired, but are harder to handle for small dimensions);
> 
> *Step 2*: Point both ends of each stick, then cut them both to EXACTLY the same length, using 12" in this example;
> 
> *Step 3*: Now draw a circle on your shop table or on a scrap piece of plywood with a diameter the same as the lengths of your sticks, with a line drawn along the center diameter. See Fig 1;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Step 4*: Decide on the ratio needed - in this case we use 2:1. This would enable you to quickly double, or halve any dimension selected within the range of the size of your dividers. This is a valuable aid when doing lots of conversions;
> 
> *Step 5*: Draw arcs on both sides of the diameter line at each end. One end to have arcs of radius 2" in this instance, and the other end exactly double that, or 4". See fig 2;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (For other ratios you use suitable multiples, say 1" on one end and 3" on the other for 3:1 ratio, etc. The ratio is the multiple of the arc lengths on each end);
> 
> *Step 6*: Now, place the sticks one over the other on the circle, with one end on the smaller arc and the other on its corresponding other, i.e., beginning on one end on the 2" arc and the other on the 4" arc on the OTHER side of the diameter line. It will help to weight or clamp them in place. See Fig 3:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note that the ends of the sticks on one end will now extend slightly beyond the drawn circle, since they will no longer pass through the center of the circle. A small adjustment is now made for better accuracy, by insuring the ends are equidistant from the diameter line, AND each is the proper distance from it (4");
> 
> *Step 7*: Drill a small hole through both sticks in their centers where they intersect, sized to receive a small machine screw or bolt with nut (wing or knurled finger nuts are handy here). Bolt the sticks together snugly enough to hold the sticks in position, but loose enough to still move the sticks, and voilà! There's your proportional dividers sized for whatever multiple you select.
> 
> You can make these to any ratio you need, although anything above 3:1 tends to be increasingly inaccurate. You might even make a set with several sets of holes drilled for various ratios - or even for custom ratios like 1-5/8:1 so long as you are comfortable doing the math needed. As always, the more careful and precise your measurements, the better accuracy you will get.
> 
> If you plan to use your dividers a lot, it is very helpful to drill small holes in the ends of the sticks into which cut-off nails may be set or glued. Just be sure the resulting overall lengths are equal, including nails, and they still fit your circle.
> 
> *NOTE*: I should add these dividers may not always be 100% accurate and precise, and may vary by 5% or so, especially when used to their maximum (widest) openings. So don't use these kind for your space trajectory calculations, or lunar landing modules. That said, they will be pretty darned close when carefully made. These are meant for those (1) 'near enough' times when you need to get the job done, and it won't actually matter if you are an eighth inch off somewhere.
> 
> (1) (I actually once heard of a 'shade tree' boat repairman somewhere in Florida years ago who called his operation 'Near Enough Boatworks'. )


Many thanks.


----------



## GnarlyErik

*How to Plane Stock very Thin*

Planing very thin stock:

Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.

Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!

This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.

That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.

Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!

See the sketches below:



















You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):










I hope this helps!


----------



## Bob817

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


Great Tip, Thankyou!


----------



## HillbillyShooter

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


Thanks for the great write up. This is basically the method I've used since the mid to late 90s, just much more eloquently written. I've never had any problems, but as I observed previously-maybe I've just been lucky.


----------



## BJODay

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


Erik,

I hope I don't sound foolish, but how does your stock feed through? It looks like your platen covers the drive rollers and your platen won't feed all the way through because of the stop cleat.

Am I missing something?

BJ


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


BJ,

Most small to mid sized planers have the feed rollers on top. The lower rollers are usually simply follower rollers to help the stock feed on through.

Some planers though have powered feed rollers on both top and bottom. In those cases to use this trick you would probably need to remove some material from the auxiliary plank platen in the areas where they contact the lower feed rollers. If there are feed rollers on top, the stock should feed thru.


----------



## cutmantom

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


Another way is to attach the stock to a piece of mdf with double stick tape, don't be cheap with the tape, you will most likely need lacquer thinner too get the stock off


----------



## johnhutchinson

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


Thanks much, Erik !!! Crystal-clear explanation of some great techniques.

I'll be planing cherry and walnut, so I'm not too worried about an inboard explosion.


----------



## BJODay

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


Erik,
Thanks for clearing that up.

BJ


----------



## Mean_Dean

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


Excellent idea-thanks for posting!


----------



## NormG

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


Great idea, I have used the double-side tape a number of times


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


Cutmantom & NormaG -

I haven't tried double-sided tape for this, but I can see how that could help hold the stock together and help prevent shattering. I'll give that a try some time.

Erik


----------



## stefang

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


Thanks for the tip Erik. My thought was to place a couple of very thin cleats at each end of the workpiece with carpet tape to lock it onto the platen. The cleats can be sized with enough length to insure adequate grab for holding strength.


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


Hi Stefan-

I know of at least two ways to use an auxiliary platen and I have tried them both. One is a sliding piece (platen) which runs thru with the stock being planed, and the other is a fixed platen which the stock being planed slides on top of and thru the planer. I myself have found it easier and much faster to use the fixed platen hooked or fixed to the planer bed, although I can also see the value of having the stock fixed firmly to a moving platen. It is probably less likely to shatter that way.

As they say, "there is more than one way to skin a cat" and there may be even better ways to do this out there.


----------



## stefang

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


I'm sure you have a lot more experience with this than I do Erik and to be honest I forgot about the platen being fixed with the cleat when I mentioned locking the workpiece onto the platen, but I guess putting the platen through could work too.

I have a planer with just two blades in high carbon steel in my relatively inexpensive combo hobby quality machine from Belgium. I am very surprised that it does such a good planing job even with maple and white oak, but I haven't tried anything extremely thin in it yet, so I may be in for a negative surprise when I do.


----------



## johnhutchinson

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


I think I'll jump back in here since I'm the one who originally asked the question.

I'm remembering now that explosions I've had in the past occurred as the stock was first making contact with the spinning blades. Machine vibrations were probably causing the leading edge of the thin stock to bounce up into the shredder. So now I'm thinking that double-face-taping the leading edge ONLY to a backer board might be the solution.

I'm going to give it a try today.


----------



## Gene01

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


My sliding MDF sled is covered with 100 grit cloth backed paper. 1/16th is as thin as I've gone. 
The work doesn't move at all. 
When planing to these thin thicknesses, I'd be concerned about the thickness of the tape under just a portion of the work.


----------



## stefang

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


That double sided tape is quite thin, so I doubt it would make any difference, but I wouldn't want to bet the farm on it.


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


I'm sure you are right about that John. Another thought is any large planer (over 12-14" or so) will naturally have more distance between the feed roller and cutter head which would allow your stock more room to flex, so it seems a smaller planer might be best for this purpose. Just for giggles I planed some white ash down to less than 1/10" today with a fixed auxiliary platen, but my stock was relatively narrow, about 4" or so. No problem at all and I'm sure I could have gotten down even thinner. I am working on another, much more complicated articulated 'Dragon' right now and the stock is for that. I love working with ash as it is so stable and predictable.

Maybe I'll try a little experiment soon with ash, maple, cherry and mahogany to see just how thin each can go? I'll report on that if I do. Also, the keenness of the cutter knives will have an effect too!

Gene Howe's suggestion (above) for sandpaper glued to a sled seems good too - though this would not eliminate a bouncing issue.


----------



## johnhutchinson

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


Now wait a minute, Erik. What could possibly be more complicated than my articulated dragons? This I gotta see. 

For my thin interior parts, I always use Revell birch plywood from Michaels Art Supplies. Sounds like a girly place to shop, but Revell plywood is gnat's-ass accurate in thickness and it's made in the good ol USA. I'm also amazed by the range of thicknesses from 3/4" all the way down to 1/64". And that's TRUE plywood at 1/64". I'd like to borrow Revell's planer for a couple days. 

I've found the plywood at Michaels to be far superior to what I was buying at Woodcraft. Go figure? And the price is great because I get a 50%-off coupon once a week via email.


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


Well John,

To start with, the creature I'm creating at the moment is about 18 or so inches tall, with other dimensions to match, including breadth and is more three-dimensional. That means more inside room for 'articulation'. Figuring the added articulation out and making it all work has taken longer than I figured. The good news is I am now almost done with that part and moving on into fleshing things out, which adds its own challenges. This 'dragon' has a hollow interior and will have a (mostly) wooden skin as now envisioned. I will post the project when finished and I think you will like it. Stay tuned for that.

I make most of my parts from solid stock (my main reason for thin stock) but also use some Okoume marine plywood leftovers from other projects. Sometimes I also laminate two or more very thin layers to create my own custom version of 'plywood' when needed.

Cheers,
Erik


----------



## johnhutchinson

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


Sounds very cool, Erik !!! I'm challenging you to a drag(on) race when it's done. If it ever …

Did you carve hundred's of individual scales? That's what's taken the most time for me. 

Why am I laughing so hard?


----------



## johnhutchinson

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


One more thing, Eric. When I read your last comment, I read " including breath" instead of "including breadth".

Have you thought about adding flames?


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


Yep John, the scales were challenging, until I decided to use a gouge to 'raise' them across the face of several single pieces of wood. So, actually that part turned out to be quick and easy. Painting them all individually is another matter though.

The 'breathing fire' option is very challenging, with the main problem now being how to protect the wooden parts from the burning gas. I can't decide whether to use fire cement or reflective metal . . Plus, my igniter system comes out of an old recycled bullfrog-starter from the 'seventies, but it's from an old two-holer which I am now having to adapt. Stay tuned!


----------



## johnhutchinson

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


*REALLY ???*

I thought I was a good BSer, but now I'm starting to question my ability. 

But this whole conversation leads me to think that there's a place for an international Articulated Dragon competition. The might even be a riding dragon category.


----------



## stefang

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


I think a forum for toys would be real interesting. I had a lot of fun making airplanes, fire trucks, camels, ducks, etc. for my grandkids. Much better than all the plastic junk they sell nowadays.


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


Well now John, I realize I over-simplified things a bit, but I just wanted to keep things as easy to understand as possible. The fact is that my dragon breath 'breathing fire' option appears to require synchronicity and simultaneous ignition across both nostrils. As you know, multi-barreled frog starters are designed to fire consecutively a few milliseconds apart, but in this instance asynchronous firing invariably seems to result in one barrel reversing direction and shooting out the rear end of the dragon. While this always seems to be hilarious for scatologically inclined (most) children, it seems perhaps unwise for such occasions as 'Show and Tell' at school.

'Form follows function' is a well-worn but very true adage, but sometimes this notion has to be reversed. My goal now is to modulate and balance the firing for one or both barrels to assure modularity and synchronicity whilst maintaining dragonicity. This may require rectifiers, assifiers or indeed, perhaps a complete scrapping of the current project. We shall see.


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


Stefan,

Herregud, what a great idea! Since you seem to have a lot of experience with toys, why don't you get the ball rolling? I would join in and support this too, since wooden toys are one of my interests too.


----------



## stefang

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


I not that experienced Erik. All of my toy projects were from books or plans, but I did enjoy making them. I don't think I could design them like you and John. You must be Norwegian because that's what most Norwegians say when they hear me murdering their language. I will ask Cricket if a toy forum is possible.

*Update*
Request has been sent to the site manager Cricket


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


Stefan -
Meg far var Norsk. Han ofte sa <<herregud>>- for latter.

Good luck with Cricket.


----------



## stefang

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


A pretty common word here Erik. used to express horror, frustration or prayers. 'Min far var norsk' or 'faren min var norsk' is the proper words. Meg means 'me' not mine. Not trying to be a smart Alec here.


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


Yep Stefan -

Guess I'm a long way from the Old Country. Mostly I have only a few words my old man left me. How did you end up in Norway anyway?


----------



## johnhutchinson

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


Now wait a minute. Whatever happened to planing thin stock? 

Erik, I just wanted to tell you that your writing knocks me out. Where does that come from? Oops … sorry.

From whence does that come?


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


Yes, this discussion sure ran off the rails, didn't it? But, that's part of the fun too I think.

I like to write a little when I have time. Mostly though I spend most free time piddling around with my various 'projects' - usually something involved with wood.

When it's really hot - like it is now where I live, I sometime resort to a little writing.


----------



## stefang

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Plane Stock very Thin*
> 
> Planing very thin stock:
> 
> Recently another Lumberjocker (John Hutchinson) asked for tips for planing stock down to 1/8" or so. Several people made good suggestions and I shared my own simple method which I worked out by trial and error years ago. I figured this would be a good tip to share in my sporadic blog on Shop Tips and Tricks.
> 
> Power planing thin stock can be a challenge for several reasons. First is the danger of damaging the cutter head and knives by their contact with the planer bed. Beyond that is the fact that the stock being planed is very prone to shatter or disintegrate when planed too thinly. The type of material being planed is critical, since some, particularly soft, split prone woods like cedar are more fragile than others. Some hardwoods are too, particularly any very grainy or brittle woods like oak prone to splitting, or anything with hard knots. A gut feeling will usually tell you which woods are not candidates. After that, it is a matter of trial and error - just be careful to stand well clear of the planner during your trials!
> 
> This method is simple, quick and easy and works well in most cases. It is merely an additional, auxiliary planer 'bed' or 'platen' for your thin stock to feed thru upon. This 'auxiliary platen' is simply a piece of thick material, stiff enough to bridge the distance between the lower rollers on the planer without flexing too much. 3/4" plywood works well, particularly the sanded type for cabinetry. Or, any wide, thick plank sufficiently stiff for the purpose. I once made a special bed with a layer of formica on top which fit across the entire surface of my planer bed.
> 
> That said, you do not need to cover the entire bed of the planer, especially if your stock is not too wide. You can even put thin 'guides' on your plank if your stock wants to wander off the plank in use. The wider your stock is the harder it is to plane thinly. A plank or piece of material about 25% wider than your material usually works fine so long as it is planed flat so both faces are parallel to one another, and at least one surface reasonably smooth to reduce friction. This can be easily stowed when not needed. If you need only a small amount of thin stock, you can make a quick auxiliary 'platen' from a short piece of 2×8 or something similar which works well for a temporary need.
> 
> Your auxiliary platen needs to be slightly longer than your planer bed. You should nail, glue or screw an approximately 1×2 cleat across one end, which when turned down, prevents this piece from feeding through the planer by hooking over the infeed edge of most planers. Your stock to be planed is then fed through the planer on top of this 'platen'. Depending on the stock being planed, you can get thicknesses down to 1/8" to 1/10" or even less. One caution is to make very thin cuts on each pass to lower the danger of the stock shattering as you plane, and the thinner you go, the thinner the successive cuts should be!
> 
> See the sketches below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see how this trick can be modified to plane a slope or bevel on thicker stock too. In this case, the auxiliary platen is made with the required bevel on the upper surface. Now, when your stock is fed through the planer, a matching bevel is planed off the upper side of your stock. When using this to make bevels it is necessary to add a stop piece to the lower edge to prevent the stock from sliding off down hill. See this sketch. (Note: This is an end view of an auxiliary platen for bevels, as viewed from the infeed side.):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this helps!


I married a Norwegian girl who came to America to work as a nurse for a couple of years and we moved back to her hometown in Norway. We did live altogether about 9 years in the States, one period of 4 years and another for 5 years. So we have actually moved to Norway twice. I love it here, except for the difficulty of finding tools and materials for my woodworking. Let me know if you ever want to make a trip here. it would be nice to meet you in person.


----------



## GnarlyErik

*Making Painting & Varnishing Easier, Cleaner and Cheaper*

Today it occurred to me while working in my shop, I have used a little trick for decades which is handy, saves money, is neat and tidy, and costs almost nothing. I didn't think to pass this on before. To make up for that, here it is now:

Using paint or varnish out of a can is always kind of a messy operation. This is not an issue if you are going to use the whole can of paint, but if you only want part of it for a smaller project, it is. You pour paint out of a can into another container, and invariably, some runs down outside the can. This can get everywhere, on your bench, clothing, shop floor, tools and your hands. You must wipe up, and you miss something anyway. It is frustrating and makes you want to throw something - not a good idea in a project area.

Paint also gets into the sealing area at the rim of the can, and you never get it all out. It can dry there making the can hard, even impossible to open later. It helps to punch several small holes in the bottom of the creased rim to allow the paint there to drain into the can. Some always remains and you get a build-up of dry paint, letting air into the can, spoiling the remaining paint in the can, or allowing a crust to build up. When you try to use the paint later, you must cut through the crust to the paint beneath. Plus, the paint gets contaminated by chunks of the crust mixed into it. It is frustrating and costly.

Years ago, bing! A light went off in my head. My wife provided a cheap stainless soup spoon I could use to dip paint out of the can. Just like that the problem was solved! No pouring, no muss, no fuss, no drips and no gripes. I found by doing some creative bending to my spoon, things got even better. Hammering in the spoon's sides made a sort of funnel making pouring out of the spoon more accurate. I can dip a precise measure out of my cans for small projects without worrying about the rim, or re-sealing of the can. The spoon is also used to measure precise amounts of thinner, or other additives to the paint as you mix.

Another benefit is measuring a small amount of thinner or turps into the spoon to gently spread back over the surface of the paint remaining in the can before you reseal., This helps maintain the viscosity of the remaining paint, which is affected by the air in the can. I always had trouble getting the turps to stay on top of the liquid paint's surface before. (NOTE: for oil-based paints only!) Now, I can simply gently let it flow out of the tip of the spoon, right at the paint surface. The pictures show how the spoon is bent so you can reach way down to the bottom of the can if you need to. There is also a return bend at the top which is used to hang the spoon after use. Always remember to wipe the spoon clean with thinner and an a rag or paper towel, or you will have to scrape or burn an accumulation of dry paint off.

Some of the paints and varnishes I use cost over $60 a quart, and it torments my being to waste any of it. If I gauge things right when I dip with the spoon, very little paint is wasted. This is just a simple little no-brainer (my wife insists I certainly qualify there!) trick which works like a charm. Try it!

It is also easy to make a quick one-off larger ladle out of a small can or bottle with a stick nailed or screwed to it for a handle. This is for when you need more paint than is convenient for the soup spoon, but much less than a full can.

See my pictures showing how the spoon is re-formed and used:


----------



## FatherHooligan

GnarlyErik said:


> *Making Painting & Varnishing Easier, Cleaner and Cheaper*
> 
> Today it occurred to me while working in my shop, I have used a little trick for decades which is handy, saves money, is neat and tidy, and costs almost nothing. I didn't think to pass this on before. To make up for that, here it is now:
> 
> Using paint or varnish out of a can is always kind of a messy operation. This is not an issue if you are going to use the whole can of paint, but if you only want part of it for a smaller project, it is. You pour paint out of a can into another container, and invariably, some runs down outside the can. This can get everywhere, on your bench, clothing, shop floor, tools and your hands. You must wipe up, and you miss something anyway. It is frustrating and makes you want to throw something - not a good idea in a project area.
> 
> Paint also gets into the sealing area at the rim of the can, and you never get it all out. It can dry there making the can hard, even impossible to open later. It helps to punch several small holes in the bottom of the creased rim to allow the paint there to drain into the can. Some always remains and you get a build-up of dry paint, letting air into the can, spoiling the remaining paint in the can, or allowing a crust to build up. When you try to use the paint later, you must cut through the crust to the paint beneath. Plus, the paint gets contaminated by chunks of the crust mixed into it. It is frustrating and costly.
> 
> Years ago, bing! A light went off in my head. My wife provided a cheap stainless soup spoon I could use to dip paint out of the can. Just like that the problem was solved! No pouring, no muss, no fuss, no drips and no gripes. I found by doing some creative bending to my spoon, things got even better. Hammering in the spoon's sides made a sort of funnel making pouring out of the spoon more accurate. I can dip a precise measure out of my cans for small projects without worrying about the rim, or re-sealing of the can. The spoon is also used to measure precise amounts of thinner, or other additives to the paint as you mix.
> 
> Another benefit is measuring a small amount of thinner or turps into the spoon to gently spread back over the surface of the paint remaining in the can before you reseal., This helps maintain the viscosity of the remaining paint, which is affected by the air in the can. I always had trouble getting the turps to stay on top of the liquid paint's surface before. (NOTE: for oil-based paints only!) Now, I can simply gently let it flow out of the tip of the spoon, right at the paint surface. The pictures show how the spoon is bent so you can reach way down to the bottom of the can if you need to. There is also a return bend at the top which is used to hang the spoon after use. Always remember to wipe the spoon clean with thinner and an a rag or paper towel, or you will have to scrape or burn an accumulation of dry paint off.
> 
> Some of the paints and varnishes I use cost over $60 a quart, and it torments my being to waste any of it. If I gauge things right when I dip with the spoon, very little paint is wasted. This is just a simple little no-brainer (my wife insists I certainly qualify there!) trick which works like a charm. Try it!
> 
> It is also easy to make a quick one-off larger ladle out of a small can or bottle with a stick nailed or screwed to it for a handle. This is for when you need more paint than is convenient for the soup spoon, but much less than a full can.
> 
> See my pictures showing how the spoon is re-formed and used:


An interesting solution, thanks for posting it here.


----------



## shipwright

GnarlyErik said:


> *Making Painting & Varnishing Easier, Cleaner and Cheaper*
> 
> Today it occurred to me while working in my shop, I have used a little trick for decades which is handy, saves money, is neat and tidy, and costs almost nothing. I didn't think to pass this on before. To make up for that, here it is now:
> 
> Using paint or varnish out of a can is always kind of a messy operation. This is not an issue if you are going to use the whole can of paint, but if you only want part of it for a smaller project, it is. You pour paint out of a can into another container, and invariably, some runs down outside the can. This can get everywhere, on your bench, clothing, shop floor, tools and your hands. You must wipe up, and you miss something anyway. It is frustrating and makes you want to throw something - not a good idea in a project area.
> 
> Paint also gets into the sealing area at the rim of the can, and you never get it all out. It can dry there making the can hard, even impossible to open later. It helps to punch several small holes in the bottom of the creased rim to allow the paint there to drain into the can. Some always remains and you get a build-up of dry paint, letting air into the can, spoiling the remaining paint in the can, or allowing a crust to build up. When you try to use the paint later, you must cut through the crust to the paint beneath. Plus, the paint gets contaminated by chunks of the crust mixed into it. It is frustrating and costly.
> 
> Years ago, bing! A light went off in my head. My wife provided a cheap stainless soup spoon I could use to dip paint out of the can. Just like that the problem was solved! No pouring, no muss, no fuss, no drips and no gripes. I found by doing some creative bending to my spoon, things got even better. Hammering in the spoon's sides made a sort of funnel making pouring out of the spoon more accurate. I can dip a precise measure out of my cans for small projects without worrying about the rim, or re-sealing of the can. The spoon is also used to measure precise amounts of thinner, or other additives to the paint as you mix.
> 
> Another benefit is measuring a small amount of thinner or turps into the spoon to gently spread back over the surface of the paint remaining in the can before you reseal., This helps maintain the viscosity of the remaining paint, which is affected by the air in the can. I always had trouble getting the turps to stay on top of the liquid paint's surface before. (NOTE: for oil-based paints only!) Now, I can simply gently let it flow out of the tip of the spoon, right at the paint surface. The pictures show how the spoon is bent so you can reach way down to the bottom of the can if you need to. There is also a return bend at the top which is used to hang the spoon after use. Always remember to wipe the spoon clean with thinner and an a rag or paper towel, or you will have to scrape or burn an accumulation of dry paint off.
> 
> Some of the paints and varnishes I use cost over $60 a quart, and it torments my being to waste any of it. If I gauge things right when I dip with the spoon, very little paint is wasted. This is just a simple little no-brainer (my wife insists I certainly qualify there!) trick which works like a charm. Try it!
> 
> It is also easy to make a quick one-off larger ladle out of a small can or bottle with a stick nailed or screwed to it for a handle. This is for when you need more paint than is convenient for the soup spoon, but much less than a full can.
> 
> See my pictures showing how the spoon is re-formed and used:


I like it Erik. I'm off to bend some spoons (look out Uri Geller).
I highly approve of your choice of finishes too. Epifanes is nice stuff!


----------



## Mean_Dean

GnarlyErik said:


> *Making Painting & Varnishing Easier, Cleaner and Cheaper*
> 
> Today it occurred to me while working in my shop, I have used a little trick for decades which is handy, saves money, is neat and tidy, and costs almost nothing. I didn't think to pass this on before. To make up for that, here it is now:
> 
> Using paint or varnish out of a can is always kind of a messy operation. This is not an issue if you are going to use the whole can of paint, but if you only want part of it for a smaller project, it is. You pour paint out of a can into another container, and invariably, some runs down outside the can. This can get everywhere, on your bench, clothing, shop floor, tools and your hands. You must wipe up, and you miss something anyway. It is frustrating and makes you want to throw something - not a good idea in a project area.
> 
> Paint also gets into the sealing area at the rim of the can, and you never get it all out. It can dry there making the can hard, even impossible to open later. It helps to punch several small holes in the bottom of the creased rim to allow the paint there to drain into the can. Some always remains and you get a build-up of dry paint, letting air into the can, spoiling the remaining paint in the can, or allowing a crust to build up. When you try to use the paint later, you must cut through the crust to the paint beneath. Plus, the paint gets contaminated by chunks of the crust mixed into it. It is frustrating and costly.
> 
> Years ago, bing! A light went off in my head. My wife provided a cheap stainless soup spoon I could use to dip paint out of the can. Just like that the problem was solved! No pouring, no muss, no fuss, no drips and no gripes. I found by doing some creative bending to my spoon, things got even better. Hammering in the spoon's sides made a sort of funnel making pouring out of the spoon more accurate. I can dip a precise measure out of my cans for small projects without worrying about the rim, or re-sealing of the can. The spoon is also used to measure precise amounts of thinner, or other additives to the paint as you mix.
> 
> Another benefit is measuring a small amount of thinner or turps into the spoon to gently spread back over the surface of the paint remaining in the can before you reseal., This helps maintain the viscosity of the remaining paint, which is affected by the air in the can. I always had trouble getting the turps to stay on top of the liquid paint's surface before. (NOTE: for oil-based paints only!) Now, I can simply gently let it flow out of the tip of the spoon, right at the paint surface. The pictures show how the spoon is bent so you can reach way down to the bottom of the can if you need to. There is also a return bend at the top which is used to hang the spoon after use. Always remember to wipe the spoon clean with thinner and an a rag or paper towel, or you will have to scrape or burn an accumulation of dry paint off.
> 
> Some of the paints and varnishes I use cost over $60 a quart, and it torments my being to waste any of it. If I gauge things right when I dip with the spoon, very little paint is wasted. This is just a simple little no-brainer (my wife insists I certainly qualify there!) trick which works like a charm. Try it!
> 
> It is also easy to make a quick one-off larger ladle out of a small can or bottle with a stick nailed or screwed to it for a handle. This is for when you need more paint than is convenient for the soup spoon, but much less than a full can.
> 
> See my pictures showing how the spoon is re-formed and used:


Great tip-thanks for posting!


----------



## hunter71

GnarlyErik said:


> *Making Painting & Varnishing Easier, Cleaner and Cheaper*
> 
> Today it occurred to me while working in my shop, I have used a little trick for decades which is handy, saves money, is neat and tidy, and costs almost nothing. I didn't think to pass this on before. To make up for that, here it is now:
> 
> Using paint or varnish out of a can is always kind of a messy operation. This is not an issue if you are going to use the whole can of paint, but if you only want part of it for a smaller project, it is. You pour paint out of a can into another container, and invariably, some runs down outside the can. This can get everywhere, on your bench, clothing, shop floor, tools and your hands. You must wipe up, and you miss something anyway. It is frustrating and makes you want to throw something - not a good idea in a project area.
> 
> Paint also gets into the sealing area at the rim of the can, and you never get it all out. It can dry there making the can hard, even impossible to open later. It helps to punch several small holes in the bottom of the creased rim to allow the paint there to drain into the can. Some always remains and you get a build-up of dry paint, letting air into the can, spoiling the remaining paint in the can, or allowing a crust to build up. When you try to use the paint later, you must cut through the crust to the paint beneath. Plus, the paint gets contaminated by chunks of the crust mixed into it. It is frustrating and costly.
> 
> Years ago, bing! A light went off in my head. My wife provided a cheap stainless soup spoon I could use to dip paint out of the can. Just like that the problem was solved! No pouring, no muss, no fuss, no drips and no gripes. I found by doing some creative bending to my spoon, things got even better. Hammering in the spoon's sides made a sort of funnel making pouring out of the spoon more accurate. I can dip a precise measure out of my cans for small projects without worrying about the rim, or re-sealing of the can. The spoon is also used to measure precise amounts of thinner, or other additives to the paint as you mix.
> 
> Another benefit is measuring a small amount of thinner or turps into the spoon to gently spread back over the surface of the paint remaining in the can before you reseal., This helps maintain the viscosity of the remaining paint, which is affected by the air in the can. I always had trouble getting the turps to stay on top of the liquid paint's surface before. (NOTE: for oil-based paints only!) Now, I can simply gently let it flow out of the tip of the spoon, right at the paint surface. The pictures show how the spoon is bent so you can reach way down to the bottom of the can if you need to. There is also a return bend at the top which is used to hang the spoon after use. Always remember to wipe the spoon clean with thinner and an a rag or paper towel, or you will have to scrape or burn an accumulation of dry paint off.
> 
> Some of the paints and varnishes I use cost over $60 a quart, and it torments my being to waste any of it. If I gauge things right when I dip with the spoon, very little paint is wasted. This is just a simple little no-brainer (my wife insists I certainly qualify there!) trick which works like a charm. Try it!
> 
> It is also easy to make a quick one-off larger ladle out of a small can or bottle with a stick nailed or screwed to it for a handle. This is for when you need more paint than is convenient for the soup spoon, but much less than a full can.
> 
> See my pictures showing how the spoon is re-formed and used:


That's why to hever throw anything away…TILL YOUR WIIFE TELLS YOU TO.


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Making Painting & Varnishing Easier, Cleaner and Cheaper*
> 
> Today it occurred to me while working in my shop, I have used a little trick for decades which is handy, saves money, is neat and tidy, and costs almost nothing. I didn't think to pass this on before. To make up for that, here it is now:
> 
> Using paint or varnish out of a can is always kind of a messy operation. This is not an issue if you are going to use the whole can of paint, but if you only want part of it for a smaller project, it is. You pour paint out of a can into another container, and invariably, some runs down outside the can. This can get everywhere, on your bench, clothing, shop floor, tools and your hands. You must wipe up, and you miss something anyway. It is frustrating and makes you want to throw something - not a good idea in a project area.
> 
> Paint also gets into the sealing area at the rim of the can, and you never get it all out. It can dry there making the can hard, even impossible to open later. It helps to punch several small holes in the bottom of the creased rim to allow the paint there to drain into the can. Some always remains and you get a build-up of dry paint, letting air into the can, spoiling the remaining paint in the can, or allowing a crust to build up. When you try to use the paint later, you must cut through the crust to the paint beneath. Plus, the paint gets contaminated by chunks of the crust mixed into it. It is frustrating and costly.
> 
> Years ago, bing! A light went off in my head. My wife provided a cheap stainless soup spoon I could use to dip paint out of the can. Just like that the problem was solved! No pouring, no muss, no fuss, no drips and no gripes. I found by doing some creative bending to my spoon, things got even better. Hammering in the spoon's sides made a sort of funnel making pouring out of the spoon more accurate. I can dip a precise measure out of my cans for small projects without worrying about the rim, or re-sealing of the can. The spoon is also used to measure precise amounts of thinner, or other additives to the paint as you mix.
> 
> Another benefit is measuring a small amount of thinner or turps into the spoon to gently spread back over the surface of the paint remaining in the can before you reseal., This helps maintain the viscosity of the remaining paint, which is affected by the air in the can. I always had trouble getting the turps to stay on top of the liquid paint's surface before. (NOTE: for oil-based paints only!) Now, I can simply gently let it flow out of the tip of the spoon, right at the paint surface. The pictures show how the spoon is bent so you can reach way down to the bottom of the can if you need to. There is also a return bend at the top which is used to hang the spoon after use. Always remember to wipe the spoon clean with thinner and an a rag or paper towel, or you will have to scrape or burn an accumulation of dry paint off.
> 
> Some of the paints and varnishes I use cost over $60 a quart, and it torments my being to waste any of it. If I gauge things right when I dip with the spoon, very little paint is wasted. This is just a simple little no-brainer (my wife insists I certainly qualify there!) trick which works like a charm. Try it!
> 
> It is also easy to make a quick one-off larger ladle out of a small can or bottle with a stick nailed or screwed to it for a handle. This is for when you need more paint than is convenient for the soup spoon, but much less than a full can.
> 
> See my pictures showing how the spoon is re-formed and used:


Yes Paul. I have always loved Epifanes, especially the high gloss. Adding just 2-3% of Penetrol and a little thinner to get the viscosity just right makes it flow perfectly. I can get a finish with it on wood you really literally can't tell from glass. My theory too, is if the finish is super smooth, then moisture can't find microscopic crevices to cling to to spoil your finish over time. Seems to work too.

I've got a cherry shaving brush (yes, I still use one!) holder in my bathroom which has been in its high moisture environment for at least ten years, and it still looks like it was varnished yesterday. Not a blem, haze or crack anywhere.


----------



## GnarlyErik

*The Zen of Sandpaper and Sanding*

Many wood workers will already know these things, but for those who do not, here are a few pointers and shortcuts about sandpaper and sanding - things I've learned after decades of wearing my fingerprints off.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS 'NO SAND FINISHING', and never let any smooth-talking paint salesperson tell you otherwise! Almost all woodworking projects need finish work. Most finishes require smoothing before the finish is applied. Normally, that means SANDING - usually, that's the least favorite part of most woodworking projects, although I can get into a zen trance with a lot of repetitive sanding. I sometimes wear off my fingerprints so much my tablet with fingerprint recognition no longer recognizes them!

Tip #1: Tape your fingertips with masking tape to save your skin for anything requiring a lot of sandpaper time. By the time you you wonder why your fingers are feeling sore it will be too late!










'Sanding' gets its name from the grit used to smooth everything from wooden spoons to seashells to nude statues made from the finest of marbles since before recorded history. And of course 'sandpaper' is paper (or cloth, or other material) with an abrasive grit uniformly glued to its surface. The 'grit' may be an actual 'sand' like finely ground garnet, emery, silicon carbide, diamond (dust) or other materials such as aluminum oxide._ From Wikipediahttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandpaper#/search_: There are many varieties of sandpaper, with variations in the paper or backing, the material used for the grit, grit size, and the bond.

Grit fineness for sandpaper used for woods is usually denoted by a number - the higher the number, the finer the grit. Grit size can range from 16 (or lower!) to over 1000, with the most common for woods being 60, 80, 100, 120, 150, 180, 220, 320, 420 and 600. There are grit sizes available ranging from 1000 up to over 12000, which are used for polishing. Technicians may use 3000 & 6000 for polishing scratches out of perplex canopies on fighter jets for example. You can find the higher number grit papers at auto parts stores, or at Home Depot. I use the 3000 (wet or dry) for edge tools sometimes.

The paper backing size (weight of the paper) is denoted by a letter, with "A" being heaviest to "F", the lightest. The most common size for sandpaper sheets is 9" x 11".

Tip #2: Fold a sheet of sandpaper in half on the short dimension and cut along the fold to end with two pieces of 9" x 5-1/2". Now fold each piece in thirds to obtain an easily handled arrangement which will not slip against itself when used for hand sanding.










You can buy rubber sanding blocks which have their uses. But, I like to make my own which better suit my needs. I like a stiffer wooden block much better than store bought rubber ones and those can be made for nothing from scraps and cut-offs. Wooden ones work better for sanding inside corners and long flats too for me.

Tip #3: Make your own wooden half-sheet sanding blocks. This will take a block 5" x 2-3/4" x 1-1/2". Make a 'clamping block' 1/4" to 1/2" smaller to hold the sandpaper. A couple of screws hold the clamping block tightly in place. If you mark the matching ends of both the sanding block and its clamp, the screws will usually find their former holes each time you refill your block with new sandpaper. I like to have two or three so I can fit different grit sizes to suit either rough or finish sanding.



















(It helps to use a couple of spring clamps to hold things as you screw on the clamping block)

Tip #4: Make your own wooden quarter-sheet sanding blocks. Ditto Tip #3, except the sanding block size is now 5" x 1-3'8" x 3/4".










Sandpaper is employed for uses besides finish sanding wood. You can use it to shape things too, with the lower number grit sizes being most effective for removing stock or 'wearing wood' as the old-timers used to say. Here it is employed like a 'mini-rasp', especially for curved shapes. Depending upon what I am trying to do, I make a special shaped block or shape to fit the need. I never throw these one-off tools away either. It is amazing how often I find these 'special shape' will be just the ticket for something in the future. These custom blocks are kept in a 'root-box' which can be rooted around in to find a shape needed.

Sometimes the shape needed won't accommodate a clamp to hold the sandpaper, and here is where contact cement comes into play. I love the kind that comes in a spray can for these small needs.

Tip #5: Make your own special needs sanding blocks or mini-rasps to exactly fit what you need to do. Here are a few from my root box:





































I dislike finding my sandpaper all curled up from humidity. There are ways to deal with this. Some store sandpaper in a bin, with a piece of wood or weight on top. I use two pieces of masonite, or other flat, thin stuff and place the sandpaper sheets between them, all held together by a spring clamp. This can be carried to a work location to keep a selection of weights and grits handy.

Tip #6: Keeping your sandpaper flat. See the photo explanation:



















Carrying the above idea one step further, this works just as well as for partial sheets and used sandpaper which still has life in it. This has the bonus of being portable and can be carried around so you have several weights of sandpaper available without having to go back to your bench or bin.

Tip #7: Sharpening things with sandpaper: Wet or dry paper can be used for sharpening, especially things that are too big for your grinder or oil stones. Using a very fine grit, you can put a new edge on planer knives, scissors, pocketknives and chisels. You will want to use fine grits of course - 600 or above, and back the sandpaper with something perfectly flat. A piece of plate glass works very well. Place the glass flat on your bench with the wet or dry paper on it and use it like a large whetstone, using plenty or water or oil as a lubricant. You will be amazed what this can do for dull scissors for example.

Tip #8: Use a similar trick to make something perfectly flat. You start off with a fairly coarse grit to begin working something down to perfectly flat and true, using successively finer grits as you proceed. When your whetstones get dished out for example, dress them perfectly flat again using wet or dry sandpaper on glass, lubricant, elbow grease and patience.

I hope you can use a few of these ideas to help you make a necessary chore easier!


----------



## Mrkixx

GnarlyErik said:


> *The Zen of Sandpaper and Sanding*
> 
> Many wood workers will already know these things, but for those who do not, here are a few pointers and shortcuts about sandpaper and sanding - things I've learned after decades of wearing my fingerprints off.
> 
> THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS 'NO SAND FINISHING', and never let any smooth-talking paint salesperson tell you otherwise! Almost all woodworking projects need finish work. Most finishes require smoothing before the finish is applied. Normally, that means SANDING - usually, that's the least favorite part of most woodworking projects, although I can get into a zen trance with a lot of repetitive sanding. I sometimes wear off my fingerprints so much my tablet with fingerprint recognition no longer recognizes them!
> 
> Tip #1: Tape your fingertips with masking tape to save your skin for anything requiring a lot of sandpaper time. By the time you you wonder why your fingers are feeling sore it will be too late!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Sanding' gets its name from the grit used to smooth everything from wooden spoons to seashells to nude statues made from the finest of marbles since before recorded history. And of course 'sandpaper' is paper (or cloth, or other material) with an abrasive grit uniformly glued to its surface. The 'grit' may be an actual 'sand' like finely ground garnet, emery, silicon carbide, diamond (dust) or other materials such as aluminum oxide._ From Wikipediahttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandpaper#/search_: There are many varieties of sandpaper, with variations in the paper or backing, the material used for the grit, grit size, and the bond.
> 
> Grit fineness for sandpaper used for woods is usually denoted by a number - the higher the number, the finer the grit. Grit size can range from 16 (or lower!) to over 1000, with the most common for woods being 60, 80, 100, 120, 150, 180, 220, 320, 420 and 600. There are grit sizes available ranging from 1000 up to over 12000, which are used for polishing. Technicians may use 3000 & 6000 for polishing scratches out of perplex canopies on fighter jets for example. You can find the higher number grit papers at auto parts stores, or at Home Depot. I use the 3000 (wet or dry) for edge tools sometimes.
> 
> The paper backing size (weight of the paper) is denoted by a letter, with "A" being heaviest to "F", the lightest. The most common size for sandpaper sheets is 9" x 11".
> 
> Tip #2: Fold a sheet of sandpaper in half on the short dimension and cut along the fold to end with two pieces of 9" x 5-1/2". Now fold each piece in thirds to obtain an easily handled arrangement which will not slip against itself when used for hand sanding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can buy rubber sanding blocks which have their uses. But, I like to make my own which better suit my needs. I like a stiffer wooden block much better than store bought rubber ones and those can be made for nothing from scraps and cut-offs. Wooden ones work better for sanding inside corners and long flats too for me.
> 
> Tip #3: Make your own wooden half-sheet sanding blocks. This will take a block 5" x 2-3/4" x 1-1/2". Make a 'clamping block' 1/4" to 1/2" smaller to hold the sandpaper. A couple of screws hold the clamping block tightly in place. If you mark the matching ends of both the sanding block and its clamp, the screws will usually find their former holes each time you refill your block with new sandpaper. I like to have two or three so I can fit different grit sizes to suit either rough or finish sanding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (It helps to use a couple of spring clamps to hold things as you screw on the clamping block)
> 
> Tip #4: Make your own wooden quarter-sheet sanding blocks. Ditto Tip #3, except the sanding block size is now 5" x 1-3'8" x 3/4".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sandpaper is employed for uses besides finish sanding wood. You can use it to shape things too, with the lower number grit sizes being most effective for removing stock or 'wearing wood' as the old-timers used to say. Here it is employed like a 'mini-rasp', especially for curved shapes. Depending upon what I am trying to do, I make a special shaped block or shape to fit the need. I never throw these one-off tools away either. It is amazing how often I find these 'special shape' will be just the ticket for something in the future. These custom blocks are kept in a 'root-box' which can be rooted around in to find a shape needed.
> 
> Sometimes the shape needed won't accommodate a clamp to hold the sandpaper, and here is where contact cement comes into play. I love the kind that comes in a spray can for these small needs.
> 
> Tip #5: Make your own special needs sanding blocks or mini-rasps to exactly fit what you need to do. Here are a few from my root box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dislike finding my sandpaper all curled up from humidity. There are ways to deal with this. Some store sandpaper in a bin, with a piece of wood or weight on top. I use two pieces of masonite, or other flat, thin stuff and place the sandpaper sheets between them, all held together by a spring clamp. This can be carried to a work location to keep a selection of weights and grits handy.
> 
> Tip #6: Keeping your sandpaper flat. See the photo explanation:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carrying the above idea one step further, this works just as well as for partial sheets and used sandpaper which still has life in it. This has the bonus of being portable and can be carried around so you have several weights of sandpaper available without having to go back to your bench or bin.
> 
> Tip #7: Sharpening things with sandpaper: Wet or dry paper can be used for sharpening, especially things that are too big for your grinder or oil stones. Using a very fine grit, you can put a new edge on planer knives, scissors, pocketknives and chisels. You will want to use fine grits of course - 600 or above, and back the sandpaper with something perfectly flat. A piece of plate glass works very well. Place the glass flat on your bench with the wet or dry paper on it and use it like a large whetstone, using plenty or water or oil as a lubricant. You will be amazed what this can do for dull scissors for example.
> 
> Tip #8: Use a similar trick to make something perfectly flat. You start off with a fairly coarse grit to begin working something down to perfectly flat and true, using successively finer grits as you proceed. When your whetstones get dished out for example, dress them perfectly flat again using wet or dry sandpaper on glass, lubricant, elbow grease and patience.
> 
> I hope you can use a few of these ideas to help you make a necessary chore easier!


Great tips thank you. I especially like the finger saver, I'm going to try that next time. My fingert have been so bad that they bled and I could not figure out why, and man did they hurt. I always figured that I didn't need a sanding block, but I will be making some in the near future. Thanks again


----------



## Texcaster

GnarlyErik said:


> *The Zen of Sandpaper and Sanding*
> 
> Many wood workers will already know these things, but for those who do not, here are a few pointers and shortcuts about sandpaper and sanding - things I've learned after decades of wearing my fingerprints off.
> 
> THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS 'NO SAND FINISHING', and never let any smooth-talking paint salesperson tell you otherwise! Almost all woodworking projects need finish work. Most finishes require smoothing before the finish is applied. Normally, that means SANDING - usually, that's the least favorite part of most woodworking projects, although I can get into a zen trance with a lot of repetitive sanding. I sometimes wear off my fingerprints so much my tablet with fingerprint recognition no longer recognizes them!
> 
> Tip #1: Tape your fingertips with masking tape to save your skin for anything requiring a lot of sandpaper time. By the time you you wonder why your fingers are feeling sore it will be too late!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Sanding' gets its name from the grit used to smooth everything from wooden spoons to seashells to nude statues made from the finest of marbles since before recorded history. And of course 'sandpaper' is paper (or cloth, or other material) with an abrasive grit uniformly glued to its surface. The 'grit' may be an actual 'sand' like finely ground garnet, emery, silicon carbide, diamond (dust) or other materials such as aluminum oxide._ From Wikipediahttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandpaper#/search_: There are many varieties of sandpaper, with variations in the paper or backing, the material used for the grit, grit size, and the bond.
> 
> Grit fineness for sandpaper used for woods is usually denoted by a number - the higher the number, the finer the grit. Grit size can range from 16 (or lower!) to over 1000, with the most common for woods being 60, 80, 100, 120, 150, 180, 220, 320, 420 and 600. There are grit sizes available ranging from 1000 up to over 12000, which are used for polishing. Technicians may use 3000 & 6000 for polishing scratches out of perplex canopies on fighter jets for example. You can find the higher number grit papers at auto parts stores, or at Home Depot. I use the 3000 (wet or dry) for edge tools sometimes.
> 
> The paper backing size (weight of the paper) is denoted by a letter, with "A" being heaviest to "F", the lightest. The most common size for sandpaper sheets is 9" x 11".
> 
> Tip #2: Fold a sheet of sandpaper in half on the short dimension and cut along the fold to end with two pieces of 9" x 5-1/2". Now fold each piece in thirds to obtain an easily handled arrangement which will not slip against itself when used for hand sanding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can buy rubber sanding blocks which have their uses. But, I like to make my own which better suit my needs. I like a stiffer wooden block much better than store bought rubber ones and those can be made for nothing from scraps and cut-offs. Wooden ones work better for sanding inside corners and long flats too for me.
> 
> Tip #3: Make your own wooden half-sheet sanding blocks. This will take a block 5" x 2-3/4" x 1-1/2". Make a 'clamping block' 1/4" to 1/2" smaller to hold the sandpaper. A couple of screws hold the clamping block tightly in place. If you mark the matching ends of both the sanding block and its clamp, the screws will usually find their former holes each time you refill your block with new sandpaper. I like to have two or three so I can fit different grit sizes to suit either rough or finish sanding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (It helps to use a couple of spring clamps to hold things as you screw on the clamping block)
> 
> Tip #4: Make your own wooden quarter-sheet sanding blocks. Ditto Tip #3, except the sanding block size is now 5" x 1-3'8" x 3/4".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sandpaper is employed for uses besides finish sanding wood. You can use it to shape things too, with the lower number grit sizes being most effective for removing stock or 'wearing wood' as the old-timers used to say. Here it is employed like a 'mini-rasp', especially for curved shapes. Depending upon what I am trying to do, I make a special shaped block or shape to fit the need. I never throw these one-off tools away either. It is amazing how often I find these 'special shape' will be just the ticket for something in the future. These custom blocks are kept in a 'root-box' which can be rooted around in to find a shape needed.
> 
> Sometimes the shape needed won't accommodate a clamp to hold the sandpaper, and here is where contact cement comes into play. I love the kind that comes in a spray can for these small needs.
> 
> Tip #5: Make your own special needs sanding blocks or mini-rasps to exactly fit what you need to do. Here are a few from my root box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dislike finding my sandpaper all curled up from humidity. There are ways to deal with this. Some store sandpaper in a bin, with a piece of wood or weight on top. I use two pieces of masonite, or other flat, thin stuff and place the sandpaper sheets between them, all held together by a spring clamp. This can be carried to a work location to keep a selection of weights and grits handy.
> 
> Tip #6: Keeping your sandpaper flat. See the photo explanation:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carrying the above idea one step further, this works just as well as for partial sheets and used sandpaper which still has life in it. This has the bonus of being portable and can be carried around so you have several weights of sandpaper available without having to go back to your bench or bin.
> 
> Tip #7: Sharpening things with sandpaper: Wet or dry paper can be used for sharpening, especially things that are too big for your grinder or oil stones. Using a very fine grit, you can put a new edge on planer knives, scissors, pocketknives and chisels. You will want to use fine grits of course - 600 or above, and back the sandpaper with something perfectly flat. A piece of plate glass works very well. Place the glass flat on your bench with the wet or dry paper on it and use it like a large whetstone, using plenty or water or oil as a lubricant. You will be amazed what this can do for dull scissors for example.
> 
> Tip #8: Use a similar trick to make something perfectly flat. You start off with a fairly coarse grit to begin working something down to perfectly flat and true, using successively finer grits as you proceed. When your whetstones get dished out for example, dress them perfectly flat again using wet or dry sandpaper on glass, lubricant, elbow grease and patience.
> 
> I hope you can use a few of these ideas to help you make a necessary chore easier!


You've covered a necessary activity very well. You didn't mention "Sanders Helper", now legal in many states.


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *The Zen of Sandpaper and Sanding*
> 
> Many wood workers will already know these things, but for those who do not, here are a few pointers and shortcuts about sandpaper and sanding - things I've learned after decades of wearing my fingerprints off.
> 
> THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS 'NO SAND FINISHING', and never let any smooth-talking paint salesperson tell you otherwise! Almost all woodworking projects need finish work. Most finishes require smoothing before the finish is applied. Normally, that means SANDING - usually, that's the least favorite part of most woodworking projects, although I can get into a zen trance with a lot of repetitive sanding. I sometimes wear off my fingerprints so much my tablet with fingerprint recognition no longer recognizes them!
> 
> Tip #1: Tape your fingertips with masking tape to save your skin for anything requiring a lot of sandpaper time. By the time you you wonder why your fingers are feeling sore it will be too late!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Sanding' gets its name from the grit used to smooth everything from wooden spoons to seashells to nude statues made from the finest of marbles since before recorded history. And of course 'sandpaper' is paper (or cloth, or other material) with an abrasive grit uniformly glued to its surface. The 'grit' may be an actual 'sand' like finely ground garnet, emery, silicon carbide, diamond (dust) or other materials such as aluminum oxide._ From Wikipediahttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandpaper#/search_: There are many varieties of sandpaper, with variations in the paper or backing, the material used for the grit, grit size, and the bond.
> 
> Grit fineness for sandpaper used for woods is usually denoted by a number - the higher the number, the finer the grit. Grit size can range from 16 (or lower!) to over 1000, with the most common for woods being 60, 80, 100, 120, 150, 180, 220, 320, 420 and 600. There are grit sizes available ranging from 1000 up to over 12000, which are used for polishing. Technicians may use 3000 & 6000 for polishing scratches out of perplex canopies on fighter jets for example. You can find the higher number grit papers at auto parts stores, or at Home Depot. I use the 3000 (wet or dry) for edge tools sometimes.
> 
> The paper backing size (weight of the paper) is denoted by a letter, with "A" being heaviest to "F", the lightest. The most common size for sandpaper sheets is 9" x 11".
> 
> Tip #2: Fold a sheet of sandpaper in half on the short dimension and cut along the fold to end with two pieces of 9" x 5-1/2". Now fold each piece in thirds to obtain an easily handled arrangement which will not slip against itself when used for hand sanding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can buy rubber sanding blocks which have their uses. But, I like to make my own which better suit my needs. I like a stiffer wooden block much better than store bought rubber ones and those can be made for nothing from scraps and cut-offs. Wooden ones work better for sanding inside corners and long flats too for me.
> 
> Tip #3: Make your own wooden half-sheet sanding blocks. This will take a block 5" x 2-3/4" x 1-1/2". Make a 'clamping block' 1/4" to 1/2" smaller to hold the sandpaper. A couple of screws hold the clamping block tightly in place. If you mark the matching ends of both the sanding block and its clamp, the screws will usually find their former holes each time you refill your block with new sandpaper. I like to have two or three so I can fit different grit sizes to suit either rough or finish sanding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (It helps to use a couple of spring clamps to hold things as you screw on the clamping block)
> 
> Tip #4: Make your own wooden quarter-sheet sanding blocks. Ditto Tip #3, except the sanding block size is now 5" x 1-3'8" x 3/4".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sandpaper is employed for uses besides finish sanding wood. You can use it to shape things too, with the lower number grit sizes being most effective for removing stock or 'wearing wood' as the old-timers used to say. Here it is employed like a 'mini-rasp', especially for curved shapes. Depending upon what I am trying to do, I make a special shaped block or shape to fit the need. I never throw these one-off tools away either. It is amazing how often I find these 'special shape' will be just the ticket for something in the future. These custom blocks are kept in a 'root-box' which can be rooted around in to find a shape needed.
> 
> Sometimes the shape needed won't accommodate a clamp to hold the sandpaper, and here is where contact cement comes into play. I love the kind that comes in a spray can for these small needs.
> 
> Tip #5: Make your own special needs sanding blocks or mini-rasps to exactly fit what you need to do. Here are a few from my root box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dislike finding my sandpaper all curled up from humidity. There are ways to deal with this. Some store sandpaper in a bin, with a piece of wood or weight on top. I use two pieces of masonite, or other flat, thin stuff and place the sandpaper sheets between them, all held together by a spring clamp. This can be carried to a work location to keep a selection of weights and grits handy.
> 
> Tip #6: Keeping your sandpaper flat. See the photo explanation:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carrying the above idea one step further, this works just as well as for partial sheets and used sandpaper which still has life in it. This has the bonus of being portable and can be carried around so you have several weights of sandpaper available without having to go back to your bench or bin.
> 
> Tip #7: Sharpening things with sandpaper: Wet or dry paper can be used for sharpening, especially things that are too big for your grinder or oil stones. Using a very fine grit, you can put a new edge on planer knives, scissors, pocketknives and chisels. You will want to use fine grits of course - 600 or above, and back the sandpaper with something perfectly flat. A piece of plate glass works very well. Place the glass flat on your bench with the wet or dry paper on it and use it like a large whetstone, using plenty or water or oil as a lubricant. You will be amazed what this can do for dull scissors for example.
> 
> Tip #8: Use a similar trick to make something perfectly flat. You start off with a fairly coarse grit to begin working something down to perfectly flat and true, using successively finer grits as you proceed. When your whetstones get dished out for example, dress them perfectly flat again using wet or dry sandpaper on glass, lubricant, elbow grease and patience.
> 
> I hope you can use a few of these ideas to help you make a necessary chore easier!


Thanks for both comments.

Mr. Texcaster, I see you are a Luthier. I've always admired the luthier art and have just built my first instrument which I will post soon. I do not play myself, but my wife loves it. I have enjoyed the process immensely.

There are two more in the making also, which I will post when done.

Cheers,
Erik


----------



## Gene01

GnarlyErik said:


> *The Zen of Sandpaper and Sanding*
> 
> Many wood workers will already know these things, but for those who do not, here are a few pointers and shortcuts about sandpaper and sanding - things I've learned after decades of wearing my fingerprints off.
> 
> THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS 'NO SAND FINISHING', and never let any smooth-talking paint salesperson tell you otherwise! Almost all woodworking projects need finish work. Most finishes require smoothing before the finish is applied. Normally, that means SANDING - usually, that's the least favorite part of most woodworking projects, although I can get into a zen trance with a lot of repetitive sanding. I sometimes wear off my fingerprints so much my tablet with fingerprint recognition no longer recognizes them!
> 
> Tip #1: Tape your fingertips with masking tape to save your skin for anything requiring a lot of sandpaper time. By the time you you wonder why your fingers are feeling sore it will be too late!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Sanding' gets its name from the grit used to smooth everything from wooden spoons to seashells to nude statues made from the finest of marbles since before recorded history. And of course 'sandpaper' is paper (or cloth, or other material) with an abrasive grit uniformly glued to its surface. The 'grit' may be an actual 'sand' like finely ground garnet, emery, silicon carbide, diamond (dust) or other materials such as aluminum oxide._ From Wikipediahttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandpaper#/search_: There are many varieties of sandpaper, with variations in the paper or backing, the material used for the grit, grit size, and the bond.
> 
> Grit fineness for sandpaper used for woods is usually denoted by a number - the higher the number, the finer the grit. Grit size can range from 16 (or lower!) to over 1000, with the most common for woods being 60, 80, 100, 120, 150, 180, 220, 320, 420 and 600. There are grit sizes available ranging from 1000 up to over 12000, which are used for polishing. Technicians may use 3000 & 6000 for polishing scratches out of perplex canopies on fighter jets for example. You can find the higher number grit papers at auto parts stores, or at Home Depot. I use the 3000 (wet or dry) for edge tools sometimes.
> 
> The paper backing size (weight of the paper) is denoted by a letter, with "A" being heaviest to "F", the lightest. The most common size for sandpaper sheets is 9" x 11".
> 
> Tip #2: Fold a sheet of sandpaper in half on the short dimension and cut along the fold to end with two pieces of 9" x 5-1/2". Now fold each piece in thirds to obtain an easily handled arrangement which will not slip against itself when used for hand sanding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can buy rubber sanding blocks which have their uses. But, I like to make my own which better suit my needs. I like a stiffer wooden block much better than store bought rubber ones and those can be made for nothing from scraps and cut-offs. Wooden ones work better for sanding inside corners and long flats too for me.
> 
> Tip #3: Make your own wooden half-sheet sanding blocks. This will take a block 5" x 2-3/4" x 1-1/2". Make a 'clamping block' 1/4" to 1/2" smaller to hold the sandpaper. A couple of screws hold the clamping block tightly in place. If you mark the matching ends of both the sanding block and its clamp, the screws will usually find their former holes each time you refill your block with new sandpaper. I like to have two or three so I can fit different grit sizes to suit either rough or finish sanding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (It helps to use a couple of spring clamps to hold things as you screw on the clamping block)
> 
> Tip #4: Make your own wooden quarter-sheet sanding blocks. Ditto Tip #3, except the sanding block size is now 5" x 1-3'8" x 3/4".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sandpaper is employed for uses besides finish sanding wood. You can use it to shape things too, with the lower number grit sizes being most effective for removing stock or 'wearing wood' as the old-timers used to say. Here it is employed like a 'mini-rasp', especially for curved shapes. Depending upon what I am trying to do, I make a special shaped block or shape to fit the need. I never throw these one-off tools away either. It is amazing how often I find these 'special shape' will be just the ticket for something in the future. These custom blocks are kept in a 'root-box' which can be rooted around in to find a shape needed.
> 
> Sometimes the shape needed won't accommodate a clamp to hold the sandpaper, and here is where contact cement comes into play. I love the kind that comes in a spray can for these small needs.
> 
> Tip #5: Make your own special needs sanding blocks or mini-rasps to exactly fit what you need to do. Here are a few from my root box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dislike finding my sandpaper all curled up from humidity. There are ways to deal with this. Some store sandpaper in a bin, with a piece of wood or weight on top. I use two pieces of masonite, or other flat, thin stuff and place the sandpaper sheets between them, all held together by a spring clamp. This can be carried to a work location to keep a selection of weights and grits handy.
> 
> Tip #6: Keeping your sandpaper flat. See the photo explanation:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carrying the above idea one step further, this works just as well as for partial sheets and used sandpaper which still has life in it. This has the bonus of being portable and can be carried around so you have several weights of sandpaper available without having to go back to your bench or bin.
> 
> Tip #7: Sharpening things with sandpaper: Wet or dry paper can be used for sharpening, especially things that are too big for your grinder or oil stones. Using a very fine grit, you can put a new edge on planer knives, scissors, pocketknives and chisels. You will want to use fine grits of course - 600 or above, and back the sandpaper with something perfectly flat. A piece of plate glass works very well. Place the glass flat on your bench with the wet or dry paper on it and use it like a large whetstone, using plenty or water or oil as a lubricant. You will be amazed what this can do for dull scissors for example.
> 
> Tip #8: Use a similar trick to make something perfectly flat. You start off with a fairly coarse grit to begin working something down to perfectly flat and true, using successively finer grits as you proceed. When your whetstones get dished out for example, dress them perfectly flat again using wet or dry sandpaper on glass, lubricant, elbow grease and patience.
> 
> I hope you can use a few of these ideas to help you make a necessary chore easier!


Great post. Thanks for the tips.


----------



## bhuvi

GnarlyErik said:


> *The Zen of Sandpaper and Sanding*
> 
> Many wood workers will already know these things, but for those who do not, here are a few pointers and shortcuts about sandpaper and sanding - things I've learned after decades of wearing my fingerprints off.
> 
> THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS 'NO SAND FINISHING', and never let any smooth-talking paint salesperson tell you otherwise! Almost all woodworking projects need finish work. Most finishes require smoothing before the finish is applied. Normally, that means SANDING - usually, that's the least favorite part of most woodworking projects, although I can get into a zen trance with a lot of repetitive sanding. I sometimes wear off my fingerprints so much my tablet with fingerprint recognition no longer recognizes them!
> 
> Tip #1: Tape your fingertips with masking tape to save your skin for anything requiring a lot of sandpaper time. By the time you you wonder why your fingers are feeling sore it will be too late!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Sanding' gets its name from the grit used to smooth everything from wooden spoons to seashells to nude statues made from the finest of marbles since before recorded history. And of course 'sandpaper' is paper (or cloth, or other material) with an abrasive grit uniformly glued to its surface. The 'grit' may be an actual 'sand' like finely ground garnet, emery, silicon carbide, diamond (dust) or other materials such as aluminum oxide._ From Wikipediahttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandpaper#/search_: There are many varieties of sandpaper, with variations in the paper or backing, the material used for the grit, grit size, and the bond.
> 
> Grit fineness for sandpaper used for woods is usually denoted by a number - the higher the number, the finer the grit. Grit size can range from 16 (or lower!) to over 1000, with the most common for woods being 60, 80, 100, 120, 150, 180, 220, 320, 420 and 600. There are grit sizes available ranging from 1000 up to over 12000, which are used for polishing. Technicians may use 3000 & 6000 for polishing scratches out of perplex canopies on fighter jets for example. You can find the higher number grit papers at auto parts stores, or at Home Depot. I use the 3000 (wet or dry) for edge tools sometimes.
> 
> The paper backing size (weight of the paper) is denoted by a letter, with "A" being heaviest to "F", the lightest. The most common size for sandpaper sheets is 9" x 11".
> 
> Tip #2: Fold a sheet of sandpaper in half on the short dimension and cut along the fold to end with two pieces of 9" x 5-1/2". Now fold each piece in thirds to obtain an easily handled arrangement which will not slip against itself when used for hand sanding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can buy rubber sanding blocks which have their uses. But, I like to make my own which better suit my needs. I like a stiffer wooden block much better than store bought rubber ones and those can be made for nothing from scraps and cut-offs. Wooden ones work better for sanding inside corners and long flats too for me.
> 
> Tip #3: Make your own wooden half-sheet sanding blocks. This will take a block 5" x 2-3/4" x 1-1/2". Make a 'clamping block' 1/4" to 1/2" smaller to hold the sandpaper. A couple of screws hold the clamping block tightly in place. If you mark the matching ends of both the sanding block and its clamp, the screws will usually find their former holes each time you refill your block with new sandpaper. I like to have two or three so I can fit different grit sizes to suit either rough or finish sanding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (It helps to use a couple of spring clamps to hold things as you screw on the clamping block)
> 
> Tip #4: Make your own wooden quarter-sheet sanding blocks. Ditto Tip #3, except the sanding block size is now 5" x 1-3'8" x 3/4".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sandpaper is employed for uses besides finish sanding wood. You can use it to shape things too, with the lower number grit sizes being most effective for removing stock or 'wearing wood' as the old-timers used to say. Here it is employed like a 'mini-rasp', especially for curved shapes. Depending upon what I am trying to do, I make a special shaped block or shape to fit the need. I never throw these one-off tools away either. It is amazing how often I find these 'special shape' will be just the ticket for something in the future. These custom blocks are kept in a 'root-box' which can be rooted around in to find a shape needed.
> 
> Sometimes the shape needed won't accommodate a clamp to hold the sandpaper, and here is where contact cement comes into play. I love the kind that comes in a spray can for these small needs.
> 
> Tip #5: Make your own special needs sanding blocks or mini-rasps to exactly fit what you need to do. Here are a few from my root box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dislike finding my sandpaper all curled up from humidity. There are ways to deal with this. Some store sandpaper in a bin, with a piece of wood or weight on top. I use two pieces of masonite, or other flat, thin stuff and place the sandpaper sheets between them, all held together by a spring clamp. This can be carried to a work location to keep a selection of weights and grits handy.
> 
> Tip #6: Keeping your sandpaper flat. See the photo explanation:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carrying the above idea one step further, this works just as well as for partial sheets and used sandpaper which still has life in it. This has the bonus of being portable and can be carried around so you have several weights of sandpaper available without having to go back to your bench or bin.
> 
> Tip #7: Sharpening things with sandpaper: Wet or dry paper can be used for sharpening, especially things that are too big for your grinder or oil stones. Using a very fine grit, you can put a new edge on planer knives, scissors, pocketknives and chisels. You will want to use fine grits of course - 600 or above, and back the sandpaper with something perfectly flat. A piece of plate glass works very well. Place the glass flat on your bench with the wet or dry paper on it and use it like a large whetstone, using plenty or water or oil as a lubricant. You will be amazed what this can do for dull scissors for example.
> 
> Tip #8: Use a similar trick to make something perfectly flat. You start off with a fairly coarse grit to begin working something down to perfectly flat and true, using successively finer grits as you proceed. When your whetstones get dished out for example, dress them perfectly flat again using wet or dry sandpaper on glass, lubricant, elbow grease and patience.
> 
> I hope you can use a few of these ideas to help you make a necessary chore easier!


----------



## GnarlyErik

*The Art of Middles of Symmetries*

I don't know why I did not think to include this as a part of my blog about centerlines since it is very closely related. I will call this notion 'The Art of Middles of Symmetries'. Simply put, all symmetrical shapes by definition have a 'middle', or centerline. Stating that notion as a corollary to centerlines, you might say: "All symmetrical shapes have an EXACT middle centerline."

Take advantage of this simple fact by using it when laying out symmetrical items. I don't consciously think about it myself when laying something out now, which is probably why I forgot to include it earlier.

In practice, this means you only need to lay out HALF of any symmetrical shape, no matter how complex the shape may be. And besides being much faster, laying out just half of a symmetrical shape will be more accurate by far. It is surprising how often you can make use of this idea. Let's take a valentine heart as an example. If you try to lay out the heart in full, no matter how careful you are, there are guaranteed to be small differences in the two halves. But, if you lay out just one half, and using that as a pattern, repeat for the other half, the result will be an accurate, symmetrical whole.









(Half the symmetrical valentine as drawn on paper folded along the centerline_

For small shapes you might use something stiff like a manila folder for pattern stock. Lay out half the shape, then fold the paper on the centerline. By cutting the half shape out with scissors or a knife, you are now cutting both halves simultaneously and identically, which will then unfold to a whole, symmetrical pattern. It is very like something you may have done in kindergarten. This pattern can now be used to trace the complete, whole symmetrical shape to the stock to be worked.









(The full valentine pattern after the folded paper is cut to shape and unfolded. In this image the cutout shape was laid on a manilla envelope for scanning.)









(An example of a more complex symmetrical pattern)

When you have a shape too large for a foldable pattern, using a stiffer material like 1/4" plywood can work for you. In this situation, make a pattern for half your shape. After transferring the first half to your stock, simply flip the pattern over for the second half, being very careful to accurately align everything to your centerline.









(In this example drawing, the pattern to be made on stiff stock like plywood, and the centerline is extended beyond the ends to aid in alignment when the pattern is flipped over for the opposite side)

And, there you go - an accurately symmetrical layout result using the idea of The Art of Middles of Symmetries!


----------



## oktams

GnarlyErik said:


> *The Art of Middles of Symmetries*
> 
> I don't know why I did not think to include this as a part of my blog about centerlines since it is very closely related. I will call this notion 'The Art of Middles of Symmetries'. Simply put, all symmetrical shapes by definition have a 'middle', or centerline. Stating that notion as a corollary to centerlines, you might say: "All symmetrical shapes have an EXACT middle centerline."
> 
> Take advantage of this simple fact by using it when laying out symmetrical items. I don't consciously think about it myself when laying something out now, which is probably why I forgot to include it earlier.
> 
> In practice, this means you only need to lay out HALF of any symmetrical shape, no matter how complex the shape may be. And besides being much faster, laying out just half of a symmetrical shape will be more accurate by far. It is surprising how often you can make use of this idea. Let's take a valentine heart as an example. If you try to lay out the heart in full, no matter how careful you are, there are guaranteed to be small differences in the two halves. But, if you lay out just one half, and using that as a pattern, repeat for the other half, the result will be an accurate, symmetrical whole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Half the symmetrical valentine as drawn on paper folded along the centerline_
> 
> For small shapes you might use something stiff like a manila folder for pattern stock. Lay out half the shape, then fold the paper on the centerline. By cutting the half shape out with scissors or a knife, you are now cutting both halves simultaneously and identically, which will then unfold to a whole, symmetrical pattern. It is very like something you may have done in kindergarten. This pattern can now be used to trace the complete, whole symmetrical shape to the stock to be worked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (The full valentine pattern after the folded paper is cut to shape and unfolded. In this image the cutout shape was laid on a manilla envelope for scanning.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (An example of a more complex symmetrical pattern)
> 
> When you have a shape too large for a foldable pattern, using a stiffer material like 1/4" plywood can work for you. In this situation, make a pattern for half your shape. After transferring the first half to your stock, simply flip the pattern over for the second half, being very careful to accurately align everything to your centerline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (In this example drawing, the pattern to be made on stiff stock like plywood, and the centerline is extended beyond the ends to aid in alignment when the pattern is flipped over for the opposite side)
> 
> And, there you go - an accurately symmetrical layout result using the idea of The Art of Middles of Symmetries!


lol that's kinda of a common sense thing BUT I WOULD HAVE NEVER THOUGHT TO DO IT!! THANKS FOR SHARING!


----------



## hnau

GnarlyErik said:


> *The Art of Middles of Symmetries*
> 
> I don't know why I did not think to include this as a part of my blog about centerlines since it is very closely related. I will call this notion 'The Art of Middles of Symmetries'. Simply put, all symmetrical shapes by definition have a 'middle', or centerline. Stating that notion as a corollary to centerlines, you might say: "All symmetrical shapes have an EXACT middle centerline."
> 
> Take advantage of this simple fact by using it when laying out symmetrical items. I don't consciously think about it myself when laying something out now, which is probably why I forgot to include it earlier.
> 
> In practice, this means you only need to lay out HALF of any symmetrical shape, no matter how complex the shape may be. And besides being much faster, laying out just half of a symmetrical shape will be more accurate by far. It is surprising how often you can make use of this idea. Let's take a valentine heart as an example. If you try to lay out the heart in full, no matter how careful you are, there are guaranteed to be small differences in the two halves. But, if you lay out just one half, and using that as a pattern, repeat for the other half, the result will be an accurate, symmetrical whole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Half the symmetrical valentine as drawn on paper folded along the centerline_
> 
> For small shapes you might use something stiff like a manila folder for pattern stock. Lay out half the shape, then fold the paper on the centerline. By cutting the half shape out with scissors or a knife, you are now cutting both halves simultaneously and identically, which will then unfold to a whole, symmetrical pattern. It is very like something you may have done in kindergarten. This pattern can now be used to trace the complete, whole symmetrical shape to the stock to be worked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (The full valentine pattern after the folded paper is cut to shape and unfolded. In this image the cutout shape was laid on a manilla envelope for scanning.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (An example of a more complex symmetrical pattern)
> 
> When you have a shape too large for a foldable pattern, using a stiffer material like 1/4" plywood can work for you. In this situation, make a pattern for half your shape. After transferring the first half to your stock, simply flip the pattern over for the second half, being very careful to accurately align everything to your centerline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (In this example drawing, the pattern to be made on stiff stock like plywood, and the centerline is extended beyond the ends to aid in alignment when the pattern is flipped over for the opposite side)
> 
> And, there you go - an accurately symmetrical layout result using the idea of The Art of Middles of Symmetries!


----------



## bhuvi

GnarlyErik said:


> *The Art of Middles of Symmetries*
> 
> I don't know why I did not think to include this as a part of my blog about centerlines since it is very closely related. I will call this notion 'The Art of Middles of Symmetries'. Simply put, all symmetrical shapes by definition have a 'middle', or centerline. Stating that notion as a corollary to centerlines, you might say: "All symmetrical shapes have an EXACT middle centerline."
> 
> Take advantage of this simple fact by using it when laying out symmetrical items. I don't consciously think about it myself when laying something out now, which is probably why I forgot to include it earlier.
> 
> In practice, this means you only need to lay out HALF of any symmetrical shape, no matter how complex the shape may be. And besides being much faster, laying out just half of a symmetrical shape will be more accurate by far. It is surprising how often you can make use of this idea. Let's take a valentine heart as an example. If you try to lay out the heart in full, no matter how careful you are, there are guaranteed to be small differences in the two halves. But, if you lay out just one half, and using that as a pattern, repeat for the other half, the result will be an accurate, symmetrical whole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Half the symmetrical valentine as drawn on paper folded along the centerline_
> 
> For small shapes you might use something stiff like a manila folder for pattern stock. Lay out half the shape, then fold the paper on the centerline. By cutting the half shape out with scissors or a knife, you are now cutting both halves simultaneously and identically, which will then unfold to a whole, symmetrical pattern. It is very like something you may have done in kindergarten. This pattern can now be used to trace the complete, whole symmetrical shape to the stock to be worked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (The full valentine pattern after the folded paper is cut to shape and unfolded. In this image the cutout shape was laid on a manilla envelope for scanning.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (An example of a more complex symmetrical pattern)
> 
> When you have a shape too large for a foldable pattern, using a stiffer material like 1/4" plywood can work for you. In this situation, make a pattern for half your shape. After transferring the first half to your stock, simply flip the pattern over for the second half, being very careful to accurately align everything to your centerline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (In this example drawing, the pattern to be made on stiff stock like plywood, and the centerline is extended beyond the ends to aid in alignment when the pattern is flipped over for the opposite side)
> 
> And, there you go - an accurately symmetrical layout result using the idea of The Art of Middles of Symmetries!


----------



## GnarlyErik

*Curves, Fair Curves and the Lack of Them*

*"My curves are not crazy."* 
~ Henri Matisse

"There are no straight lines in nature." was a truism in the School of Architecture when I attended college. This is not strictly true for the human eye at least, when you consider crystalline structures and such things. Perhaps there it still even holds true in the sub-atomic world. But, it is true in almost all of the visible natural world. There is something about curves we all seem to like. Men in particular certainly seem to favor a curvaceous woman over a 'linear' one!

While a straight-line, angular composition is often attractive, an introduction of curves can make a spectacular difference in its perception. Think of the arch over a door or window, or a curved wall. The high school where I live has circular buildings mixed in with rectangular ones which make the complex as a whole far more interesting to me.

The dictionary provides two definitions for the noun 'curve' of the kind I speak of. One describes a line in one plane, and two dimensions:

_1. "A line that deviates from straightness in a smooth, continuous fashion."_

Another definition describes a 'surface in planarity', which in effect means a curve in three dimensions, such as a boat hull, airplane or automobile:

_2. "A surface that deviates from planarity in a smooth, continuous fashion"._

Curves can be easy to form, as in a circle, or part of a circle which can be described with a compass, or they can be more difficult as in a curved line which continuously changes the radii of its curvature. Note that BOTH definitions above demand that a curve should 'deviate in a continuous fashion.' This means curves should not have 'bumps', 'knots', 'jerks' or 'elbows' in them.

A continuously 'smooth' curve is called a 'fair' curve, and checking or making a curve continuously smooth is called 'fairing' the curve, and is the heart of this little article. Any boatbuilder is familiar with 'fairing curves', since there are very few if any straight lines in most boats' hulls.

That is unless you consider the angular, upside-down/inside-out monstrosities the U.S. Navy is now having built, the hulls of which were apparently designed by an amalgamated group of the people who designed the Rubik's Cube, Legos and some of our present day linear 'modern art'. Yes, I know the reason behind all the angularity, but really? And what happens when the inevitable 'what-ifs' occur? How is any crew going to see anything, or even stand on deck for that matter? On her maiden voyage to the West Coast, this vessel broke down twice and had to be towed into port in Panama once. I'm still wondering how and where in the dickens the tow-line was made fast and how they steered this pig.










But back to my main point: A boatbuilder derives fair curves by eye, striving to avoid 'jerks' and 'elbows'. Some do it by eye alone during the process of building the boat, but the majority by far do so with the aid of 'fairing battens'. Most traditional boatbuilders make their own battens, using straight grained and predictable woods such as white pine. Besides being straight grained, fairing battens must avoid all knots, which are apt to 'jerk' the batten in use, or cause it to break. And, battens must lay flat in both directions. Many battens are square in cross-section, but sometimes a more rectangular shape is needed, particularly where the curves become more pronounced. Many fairing battens are tapered at the ends so they can handle tighter curves better, such as in the ends of boat hulls. Most boatbuilders have a variety of different sized fairing battens hanging on the walls of their shops to handle any type curve. Sometimes they are thirty or more feet long. I am out of that industry now, but boatbuilders today can and do buy fiberglass and plastic battens in various sizes too, which can be very expensive. These are called 'pultruded' battens. What an awful name! Sailmakers use them too, and theirs can be quite long, sometimes over 100 feet. Mega-yacht builders often use specially-built metal battens in their operations as well.

Fairing battens are used both in the original layout of 'lofting' as it's called, and in checking the fairness of the work as it progresses. And always, the ultimate aim is to make sure all the curves are 'fair' and without bumps in all directions!

My fairing needs are modest now, but I still make use of a variety of battens in laying out various things. I can always make a longer one if needed. And even though straight-grained woods are hard to come by in long lengths nowadays, you can make longer battens if you're willing to spend the time to make 16 to 1 scarf joins to mate two or more pieces to obtain what you need. Always make the scarf join before giving the batten its final shape. This is so the final planing to size goes through the join in a continuous line on all four sides.

Here are a few of my small fairing battens, and the little clips devised to hold them in place in lieu of nails. Note the various sizes of the battens, and the tapered ends on some. It is surprising how often I use these battens. The clips are made from scraps, work well and allow adjusting the curvature easily.




























I sometimes use draftsmen's lead 'ducks' or 'whales' for very small or tight curves with smaller battens. The whales weigh around 4-5 pounds apiece, and have felt glued to their bottoms for use on my drafting table, although they're used in the shop too. The pictures show examples of how they are used.


















Here is an another discussion about battens and fairing you may also find interesting:

http://www.everything2.com/title/batten


----------



## shipwright

GnarlyErik said:


> *Curves, Fair Curves and the Lack of Them*
> 
> *"My curves are not crazy."*
> ~ Henri Matisse
> 
> "There are no straight lines in nature." was a truism in the School of Architecture when I attended college. This is not strictly true for the human eye at least, when you consider crystalline structures and such things. Perhaps there it still even holds true in the sub-atomic world. But, it is true in almost all of the visible natural world. There is something about curves we all seem to like. Men in particular certainly seem to favor a curvaceous woman over a 'linear' one!
> 
> While a straight-line, angular composition is often attractive, an introduction of curves can make a spectacular difference in its perception. Think of the arch over a door or window, or a curved wall. The high school where I live has circular buildings mixed in with rectangular ones which make the complex as a whole far more interesting to me.
> 
> The dictionary provides two definitions for the noun 'curve' of the kind I speak of. One describes a line in one plane, and two dimensions:
> 
> _1. "A line that deviates from straightness in a smooth, continuous fashion."_
> 
> Another definition describes a 'surface in planarity', which in effect means a curve in three dimensions, such as a boat hull, airplane or automobile:
> 
> _2. "A surface that deviates from planarity in a smooth, continuous fashion"._
> 
> Curves can be easy to form, as in a circle, or part of a circle which can be described with a compass, or they can be more difficult as in a curved line which continuously changes the radii of its curvature. Note that BOTH definitions above demand that a curve should 'deviate in a continuous fashion.' This means curves should not have 'bumps', 'knots', 'jerks' or 'elbows' in them.
> 
> A continuously 'smooth' curve is called a 'fair' curve, and checking or making a curve continuously smooth is called 'fairing' the curve, and is the heart of this little article. Any boatbuilder is familiar with 'fairing curves', since there are very few if any straight lines in most boats' hulls.
> 
> That is unless you consider the angular, upside-down/inside-out monstrosities the U.S. Navy is now having built, the hulls of which were apparently designed by an amalgamated group of the people who designed the Rubik's Cube, Legos and some of our present day linear 'modern art'. Yes, I know the reason behind all the angularity, but really? And what happens when the inevitable 'what-ifs' occur? How is any crew going to see anything, or even stand on deck for that matter? On her maiden voyage to the West Coast, this vessel broke down twice and had to be towed into port in Panama once. I'm still wondering how and where in the dickens the tow-line was made fast and how they steered this pig.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But back to my main point: A boatbuilder derives fair curves by eye, striving to avoid 'jerks' and 'elbows'. Some do it by eye alone during the process of building the boat, but the majority by far do so with the aid of 'fairing battens'. Most traditional boatbuilders make their own battens, using straight grained and predictable woods such as white pine. Besides being straight grained, fairing battens must avoid all knots, which are apt to 'jerk' the batten in use, or cause it to break. And, battens must lay flat in both directions. Many battens are square in cross-section, but sometimes a more rectangular shape is needed, particularly where the curves become more pronounced. Many fairing battens are tapered at the ends so they can handle tighter curves better, such as in the ends of boat hulls. Most boatbuilders have a variety of different sized fairing battens hanging on the walls of their shops to handle any type curve. Sometimes they are thirty or more feet long. I am out of that industry now, but boatbuilders today can and do buy fiberglass and plastic battens in various sizes too, which can be very expensive. These are called 'pultruded' battens. What an awful name! Sailmakers use them too, and theirs can be quite long, sometimes over 100 feet. Mega-yacht builders often use specially-built metal battens in their operations as well.
> 
> Fairing battens are used both in the original layout of 'lofting' as it's called, and in checking the fairness of the work as it progresses. And always, the ultimate aim is to make sure all the curves are 'fair' and without bumps in all directions!
> 
> My fairing needs are modest now, but I still make use of a variety of battens in laying out various things. I can always make a longer one if needed. And even though straight-grained woods are hard to come by in long lengths nowadays, you can make longer battens if you're willing to spend the time to make 16 to 1 scarf joins to mate two or more pieces to obtain what you need. Always make the scarf join before giving the batten its final shape. This is so the final planing to size goes through the join in a continuous line on all four sides.
> 
> Here are a few of my small fairing battens, and the little clips devised to hold them in place in lieu of nails. Note the various sizes of the battens, and the tapered ends on some. It is surprising how often I use these battens. The clips are made from scraps, work well and allow adjusting the curvature easily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I sometimes use draftsmen's lead 'ducks' or 'whales' for very small or tight curves with smaller battens. The whales weigh around 4-5 pounds apiece, and have felt glued to their bottoms for use on my drafting table, although they're used in the shop too. The pictures show examples of how they are used.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an another discussion about battens and fairing you may also find interesting:
> 
> http://www.everything2.com/title/batten


Great topic, well written Erik.

"The batten is the boss" is a mantra I had drilled into me early. My boatbuilding mentor would always check my lines and OK them when I was laying out sheerlines, rail top lines, planking lines, etc and would always "tweak" them just a little but I did occasionally I catch him moving a nail here and then there to balance and eventually moving them back to where I had had them. He would then say " There that's good now. On the three dimensional hull we always used nails above and below the battens.
... and we always checked the line by bending over and looking at it upside down.

So Erik, do bad lines in buildings, curbs, industrial design, etc. drive you crazy too?


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Curves, Fair Curves and the Lack of Them*
> 
> *"My curves are not crazy."*
> ~ Henri Matisse
> 
> "There are no straight lines in nature." was a truism in the School of Architecture when I attended college. This is not strictly true for the human eye at least, when you consider crystalline structures and such things. Perhaps there it still even holds true in the sub-atomic world. But, it is true in almost all of the visible natural world. There is something about curves we all seem to like. Men in particular certainly seem to favor a curvaceous woman over a 'linear' one!
> 
> While a straight-line, angular composition is often attractive, an introduction of curves can make a spectacular difference in its perception. Think of the arch over a door or window, or a curved wall. The high school where I live has circular buildings mixed in with rectangular ones which make the complex as a whole far more interesting to me.
> 
> The dictionary provides two definitions for the noun 'curve' of the kind I speak of. One describes a line in one plane, and two dimensions:
> 
> _1. "A line that deviates from straightness in a smooth, continuous fashion."_
> 
> Another definition describes a 'surface in planarity', which in effect means a curve in three dimensions, such as a boat hull, airplane or automobile:
> 
> _2. "A surface that deviates from planarity in a smooth, continuous fashion"._
> 
> Curves can be easy to form, as in a circle, or part of a circle which can be described with a compass, or they can be more difficult as in a curved line which continuously changes the radii of its curvature. Note that BOTH definitions above demand that a curve should 'deviate in a continuous fashion.' This means curves should not have 'bumps', 'knots', 'jerks' or 'elbows' in them.
> 
> A continuously 'smooth' curve is called a 'fair' curve, and checking or making a curve continuously smooth is called 'fairing' the curve, and is the heart of this little article. Any boatbuilder is familiar with 'fairing curves', since there are very few if any straight lines in most boats' hulls.
> 
> That is unless you consider the angular, upside-down/inside-out monstrosities the U.S. Navy is now having built, the hulls of which were apparently designed by an amalgamated group of the people who designed the Rubik's Cube, Legos and some of our present day linear 'modern art'. Yes, I know the reason behind all the angularity, but really? And what happens when the inevitable 'what-ifs' occur? How is any crew going to see anything, or even stand on deck for that matter? On her maiden voyage to the West Coast, this vessel broke down twice and had to be towed into port in Panama once. I'm still wondering how and where in the dickens the tow-line was made fast and how they steered this pig.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But back to my main point: A boatbuilder derives fair curves by eye, striving to avoid 'jerks' and 'elbows'. Some do it by eye alone during the process of building the boat, but the majority by far do so with the aid of 'fairing battens'. Most traditional boatbuilders make their own battens, using straight grained and predictable woods such as white pine. Besides being straight grained, fairing battens must avoid all knots, which are apt to 'jerk' the batten in use, or cause it to break. And, battens must lay flat in both directions. Many battens are square in cross-section, but sometimes a more rectangular shape is needed, particularly where the curves become more pronounced. Many fairing battens are tapered at the ends so they can handle tighter curves better, such as in the ends of boat hulls. Most boatbuilders have a variety of different sized fairing battens hanging on the walls of their shops to handle any type curve. Sometimes they are thirty or more feet long. I am out of that industry now, but boatbuilders today can and do buy fiberglass and plastic battens in various sizes too, which can be very expensive. These are called 'pultruded' battens. What an awful name! Sailmakers use them too, and theirs can be quite long, sometimes over 100 feet. Mega-yacht builders often use specially-built metal battens in their operations as well.
> 
> Fairing battens are used both in the original layout of 'lofting' as it's called, and in checking the fairness of the work as it progresses. And always, the ultimate aim is to make sure all the curves are 'fair' and without bumps in all directions!
> 
> My fairing needs are modest now, but I still make use of a variety of battens in laying out various things. I can always make a longer one if needed. And even though straight-grained woods are hard to come by in long lengths nowadays, you can make longer battens if you're willing to spend the time to make 16 to 1 scarf joins to mate two or more pieces to obtain what you need. Always make the scarf join before giving the batten its final shape. This is so the final planing to size goes through the join in a continuous line on all four sides.
> 
> Here are a few of my small fairing battens, and the little clips devised to hold them in place in lieu of nails. Note the various sizes of the battens, and the tapered ends on some. It is surprising how often I use these battens. The clips are made from scraps, work well and allow adjusting the curvature easily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I sometimes use draftsmen's lead 'ducks' or 'whales' for very small or tight curves with smaller battens. The whales weigh around 4-5 pounds apiece, and have felt glued to their bottoms for use on my drafting table, although they're used in the shop too. The pictures show examples of how they are used.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an another discussion about battens and fairing you may also find interesting:
> 
> http://www.everything2.com/title/batten


Amen Paul, on the mentoring and upside down looking. Regarding 'standard' architecture and civil/industrial design, etc., yes I too have problems with most of it. I studied architecture in college and worked with a large firm afterwards for a period. Most of the work was for government accounts (mostly state and local) and it was uniformly stifling. There was zero art, little imagination and very little grace to any of it. I suppose that is only to be expected with the committees which were the clients we answered to. It was a shock when I finally realized I could not wait to get away from it. To me the very most pleasing designs have an 'organic' feel, and I think that is why I have always loved boats. There is a term in architecture, 'form follows function' and most boats are proof of that, at least boats in the traditional sense.

Since you mentioned curbs, I recall one of my professors in college recommending never committing on sidewalk location on public buildings until after the buildings were occupied for a while (when possible). Then, note the foot traffic patterns the occupants were making in the landscaping. Hey, voila'! So THAT'S where the sidewalks should go, and how so organic is that! So sensible, but almost never possible due to the way bidding processes work.


----------



## Ocelot

GnarlyErik said:


> *Curves, Fair Curves and the Lack of Them*
> 
> *"My curves are not crazy."*
> ~ Henri Matisse
> 
> "There are no straight lines in nature." was a truism in the School of Architecture when I attended college. This is not strictly true for the human eye at least, when you consider crystalline structures and such things. Perhaps there it still even holds true in the sub-atomic world. But, it is true in almost all of the visible natural world. There is something about curves we all seem to like. Men in particular certainly seem to favor a curvaceous woman over a 'linear' one!
> 
> While a straight-line, angular composition is often attractive, an introduction of curves can make a spectacular difference in its perception. Think of the arch over a door or window, or a curved wall. The high school where I live has circular buildings mixed in with rectangular ones which make the complex as a whole far more interesting to me.
> 
> The dictionary provides two definitions for the noun 'curve' of the kind I speak of. One describes a line in one plane, and two dimensions:
> 
> _1. "A line that deviates from straightness in a smooth, continuous fashion."_
> 
> Another definition describes a 'surface in planarity', which in effect means a curve in three dimensions, such as a boat hull, airplane or automobile:
> 
> _2. "A surface that deviates from planarity in a smooth, continuous fashion"._
> 
> Curves can be easy to form, as in a circle, or part of a circle which can be described with a compass, or they can be more difficult as in a curved line which continuously changes the radii of its curvature. Note that BOTH definitions above demand that a curve should 'deviate in a continuous fashion.' This means curves should not have 'bumps', 'knots', 'jerks' or 'elbows' in them.
> 
> A continuously 'smooth' curve is called a 'fair' curve, and checking or making a curve continuously smooth is called 'fairing' the curve, and is the heart of this little article. Any boatbuilder is familiar with 'fairing curves', since there are very few if any straight lines in most boats' hulls.
> 
> That is unless you consider the angular, upside-down/inside-out monstrosities the U.S. Navy is now having built, the hulls of which were apparently designed by an amalgamated group of the people who designed the Rubik's Cube, Legos and some of our present day linear 'modern art'. Yes, I know the reason behind all the angularity, but really? And what happens when the inevitable 'what-ifs' occur? How is any crew going to see anything, or even stand on deck for that matter? On her maiden voyage to the West Coast, this vessel broke down twice and had to be towed into port in Panama once. I'm still wondering how and where in the dickens the tow-line was made fast and how they steered this pig.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But back to my main point: A boatbuilder derives fair curves by eye, striving to avoid 'jerks' and 'elbows'. Some do it by eye alone during the process of building the boat, but the majority by far do so with the aid of 'fairing battens'. Most traditional boatbuilders make their own battens, using straight grained and predictable woods such as white pine. Besides being straight grained, fairing battens must avoid all knots, which are apt to 'jerk' the batten in use, or cause it to break. And, battens must lay flat in both directions. Many battens are square in cross-section, but sometimes a more rectangular shape is needed, particularly where the curves become more pronounced. Many fairing battens are tapered at the ends so they can handle tighter curves better, such as in the ends of boat hulls. Most boatbuilders have a variety of different sized fairing battens hanging on the walls of their shops to handle any type curve. Sometimes they are thirty or more feet long. I am out of that industry now, but boatbuilders today can and do buy fiberglass and plastic battens in various sizes too, which can be very expensive. These are called 'pultruded' battens. What an awful name! Sailmakers use them too, and theirs can be quite long, sometimes over 100 feet. Mega-yacht builders often use specially-built metal battens in their operations as well.
> 
> Fairing battens are used both in the original layout of 'lofting' as it's called, and in checking the fairness of the work as it progresses. And always, the ultimate aim is to make sure all the curves are 'fair' and without bumps in all directions!
> 
> My fairing needs are modest now, but I still make use of a variety of battens in laying out various things. I can always make a longer one if needed. And even though straight-grained woods are hard to come by in long lengths nowadays, you can make longer battens if you're willing to spend the time to make 16 to 1 scarf joins to mate two or more pieces to obtain what you need. Always make the scarf join before giving the batten its final shape. This is so the final planing to size goes through the join in a continuous line on all four sides.
> 
> Here are a few of my small fairing battens, and the little clips devised to hold them in place in lieu of nails. Note the various sizes of the battens, and the tapered ends on some. It is surprising how often I use these battens. The clips are made from scraps, work well and allow adjusting the curvature easily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I sometimes use draftsmen's lead 'ducks' or 'whales' for very small or tight curves with smaller battens. The whales weigh around 4-5 pounds apiece, and have felt glued to their bottoms for use on my drafting table, although they're used in the shop too. The pictures show examples of how they are used.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an another discussion about battens and fairing you may also find interesting:
> 
> http://www.everything2.com/title/batten


This is a good reminder - and goes well with your bent lamination post from 3 years back.


----------



## GnarlyErik

*Jacking sideways, or "Walking the Jack."*

Here's an idea you may find useful some day. This trick uses a jack to safely move something horizontally. You can turn most jacks on their sides, but then must have something solid to jack against. Did you know you can use a jack by itself to move something sideways without needing a side purchase at all?

It's a pretty simple notion, but it may not occur to you. This requires a jack with a rigidly solid, flat base like a bottle jack. Other types of jacks may work too, but most will carry more risk.

Here's the way this idea works:

1 Place the jack beneath the item which requires shifting, as near to the center of weight at one end as you can. It is important that the other end has at least two points of solid contact with the floor or ground. For example, you may need to move something like a patio deck or porch. In my experience I have sometimes used this trick to move or shift heavy boats around;

2 Tip the jack about ten or fifteen or so degrees to the side AWAY from the direction you wish your item to move. While this seems counter-intuitive, it will soon be clear how this works. The flat base of the jack will be tipped up off its support on the side you wish to move your load. If you are on soft ground you need something flat and solid under the jack. It is important to draw a mental line from the top of the jack to the edge of the jack in contract with the supporting surface. The top of the tipped jack must never get beyond a vertical line from its top to the edge in contact with the surface.

3 As you begin jacking, physics work to make the base flat with its support again. This is controllable and safe when done right. Each stroke of the jack handle lifts the load a little and makes the base level itself to the support underneath it a little more. (Note: If it does not, or shoves the wrong way, you should reassess and reset because you are doing something wrong. Be safe!) As the jack straightens into plumb, it shifts the load in the opposite direction of its lean until the base is flat with the support again. At this point, you will also have raised your load somewhat too, obviously. You then release the jack and reset it if you need to move your item further.

And it's just that simple! See my sketch below for a graphical explanation:










SAFETY CONSIDERATIONS:
1. Be sure the top of your jack is not tilted beyond a vertical line from the top to the edge of its base, and always err on the side of safety;  
2. Make sure your load is supported solidly in at least two other points opposite your jack; 
3. Make sure both the top and bottom of your jack can not slip; 
4. Place a solid safety support beneath your load to protect yourself and your appendages it case something does slip; 
5. Never drink alcoholic beverages and mess around with a jack!


----------



## RichT

GnarlyErik said:


> *Jacking sideways, or "Walking the Jack."*
> 
> Here's an idea you may find useful some day. This trick uses a jack to safely move something horizontally. You can turn most jacks on their sides, but then must have something solid to jack against. Did you know you can use a jack by itself to move something sideways without needing a side purchase at all?
> 
> It's a pretty simple notion, but it may not occur to you. This requires a jack with a rigidly solid, flat base like a bottle jack. Other types of jacks may work too, but most will carry more risk.
> 
> Here's the way this idea works:
> 
> 1 Place the jack beneath the item which requires shifting, as near to the center of weight at one end as you can. It is important that the other end has at least two points of solid contact with the floor or ground. For example, you may need to move something like a patio deck or porch. In my experience I have sometimes used this trick to move or shift heavy boats around;
> 
> 2 Tip the jack about ten or fifteen or so degrees to the side AWAY from the direction you wish your item to move. While this seems counter-intuitive, it will soon be clear how this works. The flat base of the jack will be tipped up off its support on the side you wish to move your load. If you are on soft ground you need something flat and solid under the jack. It is important to draw a mental line from the top of the jack to the edge of the jack in contract with the supporting surface. The top of the tipped jack must never get beyond a vertical line from its top to the edge in contact with the surface.
> 
> 3 As you begin jacking, physics work to make the base flat with its support again. This is controllable and safe when done right. Each stroke of the jack handle lifts the load a little and makes the base level itself to the support underneath it a little more. (Note: If it does not, or shoves the wrong way, you should reassess and reset because you are doing something wrong. Be safe!) As the jack straightens into plumb, it shifts the load in the opposite direction of its lean until the base is flat with the support again. At this point, you will also have raised your load somewhat too, obviously. You then release the jack and reset it if you need to move your item further.
> 
> And it's just that simple! See my sketch below for a graphical explanation:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAFETY CONSIDERATIONS:
> 1. Be sure the top of your jack is not tilted beyond a vertical line from the top to the edge of its base, and always err on the side of safety;
> 2. Make sure your load is supported solidly in at least two other points opposite your jack;
> 3. Make sure both the top and bottom of your jack can not slip;
> 4. Place a solid safety support beneath your load to protect yourself and your appendages it case something does slip;
> 5. Never drink alcoholic beverages and mess around with a jack!


Cool trick. Thanks for sharing. "Side purchase?" You don't hear terms like that often. I'm impressed. You also have maybe the coolest username on here


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## tyvekboy

GnarlyErik said:


> *Jacking sideways, or "Walking the Jack."*
> 
> Here's an idea you may find useful some day. This trick uses a jack to safely move something horizontally. You can turn most jacks on their sides, but then must have something solid to jack against. Did you know you can use a jack by itself to move something sideways without needing a side purchase at all?
> 
> It's a pretty simple notion, but it may not occur to you. This requires a jack with a rigidly solid, flat base like a bottle jack. Other types of jacks may work too, but most will carry more risk.
> 
> Here's the way this idea works:
> 
> 1 Place the jack beneath the item which requires shifting, as near to the center of weight at one end as you can. It is important that the other end has at least two points of solid contact with the floor or ground. For example, you may need to move something like a patio deck or porch. In my experience I have sometimes used this trick to move or shift heavy boats around;
> 
> 2 Tip the jack about ten or fifteen or so degrees to the side AWAY from the direction you wish your item to move. While this seems counter-intuitive, it will soon be clear how this works. The flat base of the jack will be tipped up off its support on the side you wish to move your load. If you are on soft ground you need something flat and solid under the jack. It is important to draw a mental line from the top of the jack to the edge of the jack in contract with the supporting surface. The top of the tipped jack must never get beyond a vertical line from its top to the edge in contact with the surface.
> 
> 3 As you begin jacking, physics work to make the base flat with its support again. This is controllable and safe when done right. Each stroke of the jack handle lifts the load a little and makes the base level itself to the support underneath it a little more. (Note: If it does not, or shoves the wrong way, you should reassess and reset because you are doing something wrong. Be safe!) As the jack straightens into plumb, it shifts the load in the opposite direction of its lean until the base is flat with the support again. At this point, you will also have raised your load somewhat too, obviously. You then release the jack and reset it if you need to move your item further.
> 
> And it's just that simple! See my sketch below for a graphical explanation:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAFETY CONSIDERATIONS:
> 1. Be sure the top of your jack is not tilted beyond a vertical line from the top to the edge of its base, and always err on the side of safety;
> 2. Make sure your load is supported solidly in at least two other points opposite your jack;
> 3. Make sure both the top and bottom of your jack can not slip;
> 4. Place a solid safety support beneath your load to protect yourself and your appendages it case something does slip;
> 5. Never drink alcoholic beverages and mess around with a jack!


Great Tip. Thanks for sharing.


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## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Jacking sideways, or "Walking the Jack."*
> 
> Here's an idea you may find useful some day. This trick uses a jack to safely move something horizontally. You can turn most jacks on their sides, but then must have something solid to jack against. Did you know you can use a jack by itself to move something sideways without needing a side purchase at all?
> 
> It's a pretty simple notion, but it may not occur to you. This requires a jack with a rigidly solid, flat base like a bottle jack. Other types of jacks may work too, but most will carry more risk.
> 
> Here's the way this idea works:
> 
> 1 Place the jack beneath the item which requires shifting, as near to the center of weight at one end as you can. It is important that the other end has at least two points of solid contact with the floor or ground. For example, you may need to move something like a patio deck or porch. In my experience I have sometimes used this trick to move or shift heavy boats around;
> 
> 2 Tip the jack about ten or fifteen or so degrees to the side AWAY from the direction you wish your item to move. While this seems counter-intuitive, it will soon be clear how this works. The flat base of the jack will be tipped up off its support on the side you wish to move your load. If you are on soft ground you need something flat and solid under the jack. It is important to draw a mental line from the top of the jack to the edge of the jack in contract with the supporting surface. The top of the tipped jack must never get beyond a vertical line from its top to the edge in contact with the surface.
> 
> 3 As you begin jacking, physics work to make the base flat with its support again. This is controllable and safe when done right. Each stroke of the jack handle lifts the load a little and makes the base level itself to the support underneath it a little more. (Note: If it does not, or shoves the wrong way, you should reassess and reset because you are doing something wrong. Be safe!) As the jack straightens into plumb, it shifts the load in the opposite direction of its lean until the base is flat with the support again. At this point, you will also have raised your load somewhat too, obviously. You then release the jack and reset it if you need to move your item further.
> 
> And it's just that simple! See my sketch below for a graphical explanation:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAFETY CONSIDERATIONS:
> 1. Be sure the top of your jack is not tilted beyond a vertical line from the top to the edge of its base, and always err on the side of safety;
> 2. Make sure your load is supported solidly in at least two other points opposite your jack;
> 3. Make sure both the top and bottom of your jack can not slip;
> 4. Place a solid safety support beneath your load to protect yourself and your appendages it case something does slip;
> 5. Never drink alcoholic beverages and mess around with a jack!


Yes, Rich -

Thanks for your comment.

I suppose I used the word 'purchase' without remembering it is sort of outdated in the context as used. I'm an old fart and sometimes use outdated language unconsciously. But, it is a term which used to be commonly used around sailing vessels and shipyards, meaning more or less a 'point of purchase' where you either grab to pull or brace to push on something. Glad you liked my avatar which I've had for many years, since email was invented in fact. I like it too!

Erik


----------



## shipwright

GnarlyErik said:


> *Jacking sideways, or "Walking the Jack."*
> 
> Here's an idea you may find useful some day. This trick uses a jack to safely move something horizontally. You can turn most jacks on their sides, but then must have something solid to jack against. Did you know you can use a jack by itself to move something sideways without needing a side purchase at all?
> 
> It's a pretty simple notion, but it may not occur to you. This requires a jack with a rigidly solid, flat base like a bottle jack. Other types of jacks may work too, but most will carry more risk.
> 
> Here's the way this idea works:
> 
> 1 Place the jack beneath the item which requires shifting, as near to the center of weight at one end as you can. It is important that the other end has at least two points of solid contact with the floor or ground. For example, you may need to move something like a patio deck or porch. In my experience I have sometimes used this trick to move or shift heavy boats around;
> 
> 2 Tip the jack about ten or fifteen or so degrees to the side AWAY from the direction you wish your item to move. While this seems counter-intuitive, it will soon be clear how this works. The flat base of the jack will be tipped up off its support on the side you wish to move your load. If you are on soft ground you need something flat and solid under the jack. It is important to draw a mental line from the top of the jack to the edge of the jack in contract with the supporting surface. The top of the tipped jack must never get beyond a vertical line from its top to the edge in contact with the surface.
> 
> 3 As you begin jacking, physics work to make the base flat with its support again. This is controllable and safe when done right. Each stroke of the jack handle lifts the load a little and makes the base level itself to the support underneath it a little more. (Note: If it does not, or shoves the wrong way, you should reassess and reset because you are doing something wrong. Be safe!) As the jack straightens into plumb, it shifts the load in the opposite direction of its lean until the base is flat with the support again. At this point, you will also have raised your load somewhat too, obviously. You then release the jack and reset it if you need to move your item further.
> 
> And it's just that simple! See my sketch below for a graphical explanation:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAFETY CONSIDERATIONS:
> 1. Be sure the top of your jack is not tilted beyond a vertical line from the top to the edge of its base, and always err on the side of safety;
> 2. Make sure your load is supported solidly in at least two other points opposite your jack;
> 3. Make sure both the top and bottom of your jack can not slip;
> 4. Place a solid safety support beneath your load to protect yourself and your appendages it case something does slip;
> 5. Never drink alcoholic beverages and mess around with a jack!


Many times Erik, as you said … moving heavy boats …... or once a lead keel Into final position under a boat. That one was tricky but the method worked perfectly. It's a great trick. This was the keel.
http://lumberjocks.com/shipwright/blog/19349


----------



## RichT

GnarlyErik said:


> *Jacking sideways, or "Walking the Jack."*
> 
> Here's an idea you may find useful some day. This trick uses a jack to safely move something horizontally. You can turn most jacks on their sides, but then must have something solid to jack against. Did you know you can use a jack by itself to move something sideways without needing a side purchase at all?
> 
> It's a pretty simple notion, but it may not occur to you. This requires a jack with a rigidly solid, flat base like a bottle jack. Other types of jacks may work too, but most will carry more risk.
> 
> Here's the way this idea works:
> 
> 1 Place the jack beneath the item which requires shifting, as near to the center of weight at one end as you can. It is important that the other end has at least two points of solid contact with the floor or ground. For example, you may need to move something like a patio deck or porch. In my experience I have sometimes used this trick to move or shift heavy boats around;
> 
> 2 Tip the jack about ten or fifteen or so degrees to the side AWAY from the direction you wish your item to move. While this seems counter-intuitive, it will soon be clear how this works. The flat base of the jack will be tipped up off its support on the side you wish to move your load. If you are on soft ground you need something flat and solid under the jack. It is important to draw a mental line from the top of the jack to the edge of the jack in contract with the supporting surface. The top of the tipped jack must never get beyond a vertical line from its top to the edge in contact with the surface.
> 
> 3 As you begin jacking, physics work to make the base flat with its support again. This is controllable and safe when done right. Each stroke of the jack handle lifts the load a little and makes the base level itself to the support underneath it a little more. (Note: If it does not, or shoves the wrong way, you should reassess and reset because you are doing something wrong. Be safe!) As the jack straightens into plumb, it shifts the load in the opposite direction of its lean until the base is flat with the support again. At this point, you will also have raised your load somewhat too, obviously. You then release the jack and reset it if you need to move your item further.
> 
> And it's just that simple! See my sketch below for a graphical explanation:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAFETY CONSIDERATIONS:
> 1. Be sure the top of your jack is not tilted beyond a vertical line from the top to the edge of its base, and always err on the side of safety;
> 2. Make sure your load is supported solidly in at least two other points opposite your jack;
> 3. Make sure both the top and bottom of your jack can not slip;
> 4. Place a solid safety support beneath your load to protect yourself and your appendages it case something does slip;
> 5. Never drink alcoholic beverages and mess around with a jack!


I guessed it harked back to your ship building days. If only the new generation was as literate as us old geezers.


----------



## RichT

GnarlyErik said:


> *Jacking sideways, or "Walking the Jack."*
> 
> Here's an idea you may find useful some day. This trick uses a jack to safely move something horizontally. You can turn most jacks on their sides, but then must have something solid to jack against. Did you know you can use a jack by itself to move something sideways without needing a side purchase at all?
> 
> It's a pretty simple notion, but it may not occur to you. This requires a jack with a rigidly solid, flat base like a bottle jack. Other types of jacks may work too, but most will carry more risk.
> 
> Here's the way this idea works:
> 
> 1 Place the jack beneath the item which requires shifting, as near to the center of weight at one end as you can. It is important that the other end has at least two points of solid contact with the floor or ground. For example, you may need to move something like a patio deck or porch. In my experience I have sometimes used this trick to move or shift heavy boats around;
> 
> 2 Tip the jack about ten or fifteen or so degrees to the side AWAY from the direction you wish your item to move. While this seems counter-intuitive, it will soon be clear how this works. The flat base of the jack will be tipped up off its support on the side you wish to move your load. If you are on soft ground you need something flat and solid under the jack. It is important to draw a mental line from the top of the jack to the edge of the jack in contract with the supporting surface. The top of the tipped jack must never get beyond a vertical line from its top to the edge in contact with the surface.
> 
> 3 As you begin jacking, physics work to make the base flat with its support again. This is controllable and safe when done right. Each stroke of the jack handle lifts the load a little and makes the base level itself to the support underneath it a little more. (Note: If it does not, or shoves the wrong way, you should reassess and reset because you are doing something wrong. Be safe!) As the jack straightens into plumb, it shifts the load in the opposite direction of its lean until the base is flat with the support again. At this point, you will also have raised your load somewhat too, obviously. You then release the jack and reset it if you need to move your item further.
> 
> And it's just that simple! See my sketch below for a graphical explanation:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SAFETY CONSIDERATIONS:
> 1. Be sure the top of your jack is not tilted beyond a vertical line from the top to the edge of its base, and always err on the side of safety;
> 2. Make sure your load is supported solidly in at least two other points opposite your jack;
> 3. Make sure both the top and bottom of your jack can not slip;
> 4. Place a solid safety support beneath your load to protect yourself and your appendages it case something does slip;
> 5. Never drink alcoholic beverages and mess around with a jack!





> Many times Erik, as you said … moving heavy boats …... or once a lead keel Into final position under a boat. That one was tricky but the method worked perfectly. It s a great trick. This was the keel.
> http://lumberjocks.com/shipwright/blog/19349
> 
> - shipwright


You guys are amazing. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## GnarlyErik

*How to Stabilize Anything With Legs*

How to stabilize anything with legs - except maybe some politicians! It does not matter how many legs the item has either. (Anything with just three legs is self-stabilizing.)

We've all been irritated with a jiggly chair or table which just doesn't want to be steady. This is a simple little trick which makes it easy to correct the problem - and maybe be a hero to your lady or friend too. The idea is very simple, but I've noticed that many people approach this situation from the wrong end. No matter how much you measure and trim it never seems to fully correct the issue.

Here's how to do it perfectly right out of the gate in one easy shot:

First, place your table or other item on any FLAT surface. Note that it doesn't need to be level at all, just flat like a driveway, garage floor or even another table top. It's a good idea to check the surface with a straightedge first, in BOTH directions as well as diagonally to make sure. (If the surface is not flat it can make the issue even worse!)

Next, brace or chock your item so it can not rock. Note which leg (or legs) are not in contact with the surface. Choose the most obvious (worst) leg, and make a wooden gauge as thick as the gap between the shortest leg and the flat surface.

Use this gauge to mark all the other legs on all their sides, and also mark the shortest leg too to be sure all is well on all sides of that as well. Round legs must be marked all the way around.

If you need to LEVEL an item like a table, you should place it on a flat, LEVEL surface first, then level the table by blocking or wedging the table level before you make and use your gauge.

Now, carefully trim all the legs to your marks - a back saw is best for this if you have one. Now when you stand your item back on any flat surface it will be rock solid, I promise.

See my sketches below:


----------



## htl

GnarlyErik said:


> *How to Stabilize Anything With Legs*
> 
> How to stabilize anything with legs - except maybe some politicians! It does not matter how many legs the item has either. (Anything with just three legs is self-stabilizing.)
> 
> We've all been irritated with a jiggly chair or table which just doesn't want to be steady. This is a simple little trick which makes it easy to correct the problem - and maybe be a hero to your lady or friend too. The idea is very simple, but I've noticed that many people approach this situation from the wrong end. No matter how much you measure and trim it never seems to fully correct the issue.
> 
> Here's how to do it perfectly right out of the gate in one easy shot:
> 
> First, place your table or other item on any FLAT surface. Note that it doesn't need to be level at all, just flat like a driveway, garage floor or even another table top. It's a good idea to check the surface with a straightedge first, in BOTH directions as well as diagonally to make sure. (If the surface is not flat it can make the issue even worse!)
> 
> Next, brace or chock your item so it can not rock. Note which leg (or legs) are not in contact with the surface. Choose the most obvious (worst) leg, and make a wooden gauge as thick as the gap between the shortest leg and the flat surface.
> 
> Use this gauge to mark all the other legs on all their sides, and also mark the shortest leg too to be sure all is well on all sides of that as well. Round legs must be marked all the way around.
> 
> If you need to LEVEL an item like a table, you should place it on a flat, LEVEL surface first, then level the table by blocking or wedging the table level before you make and use your gauge.
> 
> Now, carefully trim all the legs to your marks - a back saw is best for this if you have one. Now when you stand your item back on any flat surface it will be rock solid, I promise.
> 
> See my sketches below:


Great tip!!!
How many time have I took a short cut thinking just one cut would get it done. NOT!!!


----------



## GnarlyErik

*Drywall Screw Helper Kit*

Here's a little hack that I find very useful around my shop.

Over the years I've realized how handy self-tapping drywall screws can be and I keep an assortment of them from 1" up to 3-3/4" on hand. They come in handy for many projects. Done right, a screw can take the place of a clamp, especially in tight spots, or where you're gluing angled pieces that are difficult to clamp.










There are a couple of drawbacks though. One is there's a small hole left when the screw is removed. This is easily dealt with by gluing a small sliver of wood in the hole - or maybe handier, a sharpened 1/8" hardwood dowel plug fits perfectly in the hole. It's easy to prepare dozens of plugs at the time by cutting the dowel into 1" or so lengths and then sharpening the end with a sharp knife, or on a belt sander.

The other drawback is the flared 'bugle' head on drywall screw can split your working stock, especially thin stuff. Since the screws are designed for drywall installation, the bugle head is meant to recess just a skosh deeper than flush in drywall and works just fine for that. In wood though, the shape of the flare of the head of the screw forces the wood apart when the screw seats, and that can easily split your stock, even if you pre-drill a pilot hole. I've even had them split 2×4's near the end. The shank of the screw itself normally does not cause splitting.










You can prevent splitting by using a washer on the screw - a #10, 3/16" & up to 1/4" washer works fine. Then when the screw seats, the washer applies the pressure on the stock instead of the bugle head doing it. Sometimes a bigger washer is needed, especially for very thin stock. 1/4" plywood works great and you can make washers any size you need. Just cut the plywood in rectangular pieces and drill a 1/8" hole in the middle. Wooden washers also have the advantage of not leaving an impression of the washer in your stock when removed. Just be careful when you're gluing not to allow any glue to get between the wooden washer and your work. Sometimes I use a bit of painter's tape as a separation layer.

One problem with wooden washers is you end up making them all over again because the impulse is to discard them after each job. I got tired of that, so used a small cardboard mailer to make myself a 'washer kit'. There's a thin glued-in a divider between the wooden washers and an assortment of drywall screws. Small washers are kept in an old pill bottle on top of the screw assortment. You could have another bottle with pre-made wooden plugs for the holes if you wanted. There's a lid on the box and the entire kit can be stored on a shelf until the next time it's needed.




























It's surprising how handy and useful this little kit is. It is a time saver and takes only a few minutes to make.

I hope this can be of help to others!

Cheers,
Gnarly Erik


----------



## GnarlyErik

*MAKE HAND SANDING ALMOST FUN!*

Maybe the least fun part of any woodworking project requiring a nice finish is the smoothing and sanding. Over the years I've been taught or learned by trial and error a few little tricks to make things easier and better.

Many years ago a boat-school-taught guy in the boat shop saw me whaling away with a big disc sander on something and made a snotty remark saying, 'Anybody can WEAR wood!'. The implication was that 'purists' like him depended on very sharp tools only.

Some may disagree, but to me, that represented pure, crass stupidity (and I told that guy so too). My old man taught me to GET THE DAMNED JOB DONE IN THE QUICKEST AND BEST WAY! (Else, hit the bricks!)

*CARDINAL SHOP RULE*: Never hesitate to use the tool that works best and fastest - provided you are competent with it of course. If it's a power planer or sander, so be it. But even with the best of power aids, there's a time when you must get down to the nitty-gritty handwork, pardon the pun.

You can buy rubber sanding blocks for sanding flat and convex surfaces. Today these run from $3 - $6 or so. Flexible foam ones come impregnated with grit for about the same price. The problem with the rubber ones is the sandpaper is hard to load and tends to move back and forth and tear off in hard use. The only real use for the foam ones for me is for cleaning something when used like a Brillo pad. Then you throw it in the trash bin of course.

You can pick up a handy piece of wood and wrap sandpaper around it for use in corners, or on flat surfaces. This works pretty well but seems like kind of a jury-rig. Why not go a step or two further and create something which is EXACTLY what you need? Best of all it's practically free since it can be made from scrap wood lying around and a couple of screws. Made right, it can work far better than any store-bought rig (my old man would call them 'pearl-handled') you can buy. If you are half-way organized and keep track of it it can last for years.

The following picture shows an assortment of various sanding blocks and aids I make use of. You can quickly make custom sizes and shapes to fit your project:










The three at the upper left in this picture have pieces of aggressive grit sanding belts glued to them. These last a surprising amount of time before you need to discard them. The others are flat blocks sized in length and girth for 1/4 sheet of sandpaper. The three on the lower left have an acute angle on one side so they can get into tight corners. They are also loaded - and labeled - with three different grits of paper. The far right one is sized for 1/2 sheet of sandpaper. Note that the sandpaper is allowed to protrude about 1/8" at the ends which helps in the corners.










This picture shows a typical block. I've learned through trial and error that it's best to index the ends of the blocks and its capture block so it's oriented to the proper end. That's so the screws can find their holes when reloading with sandpaper. The holes in the sanding block itself are counter-bored for the same reason.

Make the capture block about 1/2" shorter than the sanding block itself at each end (about 1" shorter overall). That will allow you to tightly fit your sandpaper and hold it in place with a spring clamp at each end while you reinstall the capture block.

You can make custom blocks for convex surfaces too by hollowing out a length of wood for your needs. This takes more care and fastening the sandpaper in place is a little more challenging. Contact cement or hot glue will work OK.

If you do much hand sanding you are going to create pain in your fingertips, guaranteed. Many people have tricks to protect themselves, but I'm throwing this in here for those who don't. It's a simple matter to apply a little painter's tape to your fingertips to protect them. I've found it works best to first put a short piece of tape over the end of your finger or thumb, then wrap another piece or two around the fingertip. Your tape will stay in place much better this way - and come off easier too:



















Remember: "Whatever floats your boat!"


----------



## DJPeck

GnarlyErik said:


> *MAKE HAND SANDING ALMOST FUN!*
> 
> Maybe the least fun part of any woodworking project requiring a nice finish is the smoothing and sanding. Over the years I've been taught or learned by trial and error a few little tricks to make things easier and better.
> 
> Many years ago a boat-school-taught guy in the boat shop saw me whaling away with a big disc sander on something and made a snotty remark saying, 'Anybody can WEAR wood!'. The implication was that 'purists' like him depended on very sharp tools only.
> 
> Some may disagree, but to me, that represented pure, crass stupidity (and I told that guy so too). My old man taught me to GET THE DAMNED JOB DONE IN THE QUICKEST AND BEST WAY! (Else, hit the bricks!)
> 
> *CARDINAL SHOP RULE*: Never hesitate to use the tool that works best and fastest - provided you are competent with it of course. If it's a power planer or sander, so be it. But even with the best of power aids, there's a time when you must get down to the nitty-gritty handwork, pardon the pun.
> 
> You can buy rubber sanding blocks for sanding flat and convex surfaces. Today these run from $3 - $6 or so. Flexible foam ones come impregnated with grit for about the same price. The problem with the rubber ones is the sandpaper is hard to load and tends to move back and forth and tear off in hard use. The only real use for the foam ones for me is for cleaning something when used like a Brillo pad. Then you throw it in the trash bin of course.
> 
> You can pick up a handy piece of wood and wrap sandpaper around it for use in corners, or on flat surfaces. This works pretty well but seems like kind of a jury-rig. Why not go a step or two further and create something which is EXACTLY what you need? Best of all it's practically free since it can be made from scrap wood lying around and a couple of screws. Made right, it can work far better than any store-bought rig (my old man would call them 'pearl-handled') you can buy. If you are half-way organized and keep track of it it can last for years.
> 
> The following picture shows an assortment of various sanding blocks and aids I make use of. You can quickly make custom sizes and shapes to fit your project:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The three at the upper left in this picture have pieces of aggressive grit sanding belts glued to them. These last a surprising amount of time before you need to discard them. The others are flat blocks sized in length and girth for 1/4 sheet of sandpaper. The three on the lower left have an acute angle on one side so they can get into tight corners. They are also loaded - and labeled - with three different grits of paper. The far right one is sized for 1/2 sheet of sandpaper. Note that the sandpaper is allowed to protrude about 1/8" at the ends which helps in the corners.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This picture shows a typical block. I've learned through trial and error that it's best to index the ends of the blocks and its capture block so it's oriented to the proper end. That's so the screws can find their holes when reloading with sandpaper. The holes in the sanding block itself are counter-bored for the same reason.
> 
> Make the capture block about 1/2" shorter than the sanding block itself at each end (about 1" shorter overall). That will allow you to tightly fit your sandpaper and hold it in place with a spring clamp at each end while you reinstall the capture block.
> 
> You can make custom blocks for convex surfaces too by hollowing out a length of wood for your needs. This takes more care and fastening the sandpaper in place is a little more challenging. Contact cement or hot glue will work OK.
> 
> If you do much hand sanding you are going to create pain in your fingertips, guaranteed. Many people have tricks to protect themselves, but I'm throwing this in here for those who don't. It's a simple matter to apply a little painter's tape to your fingertips to protect them. I've found it works best to first put a short piece of tape over the end of your finger or thumb, then wrap another piece or two around the fingertip. Your tape will stay in place much better this way - and come off easier too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember: "Whatever floats your boat!"


Thank you for this post. Entertaining and very useable instruction. Looked at your projects - masterful.


----------



## shipwright

GnarlyErik said:


> *MAKE HAND SANDING ALMOST FUN!*
> 
> Maybe the least fun part of any woodworking project requiring a nice finish is the smoothing and sanding. Over the years I've been taught or learned by trial and error a few little tricks to make things easier and better.
> 
> Many years ago a boat-school-taught guy in the boat shop saw me whaling away with a big disc sander on something and made a snotty remark saying, 'Anybody can WEAR wood!'. The implication was that 'purists' like him depended on very sharp tools only.
> 
> Some may disagree, but to me, that represented pure, crass stupidity (and I told that guy so too). My old man taught me to GET THE DAMNED JOB DONE IN THE QUICKEST AND BEST WAY! (Else, hit the bricks!)
> 
> *CARDINAL SHOP RULE*: Never hesitate to use the tool that works best and fastest - provided you are competent with it of course. If it's a power planer or sander, so be it. But even with the best of power aids, there's a time when you must get down to the nitty-gritty handwork, pardon the pun.
> 
> You can buy rubber sanding blocks for sanding flat and convex surfaces. Today these run from $3 - $6 or so. Flexible foam ones come impregnated with grit for about the same price. The problem with the rubber ones is the sandpaper is hard to load and tends to move back and forth and tear off in hard use. The only real use for the foam ones for me is for cleaning something when used like a Brillo pad. Then you throw it in the trash bin of course.
> 
> You can pick up a handy piece of wood and wrap sandpaper around it for use in corners, or on flat surfaces. This works pretty well but seems like kind of a jury-rig. Why not go a step or two further and create something which is EXACTLY what you need? Best of all it's practically free since it can be made from scrap wood lying around and a couple of screws. Made right, it can work far better than any store-bought rig (my old man would call them 'pearl-handled') you can buy. If you are half-way organized and keep track of it it can last for years.
> 
> The following picture shows an assortment of various sanding blocks and aids I make use of. You can quickly make custom sizes and shapes to fit your project:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The three at the upper left in this picture have pieces of aggressive grit sanding belts glued to them. These last a surprising amount of time before you need to discard them. The others are flat blocks sized in length and girth for 1/4 sheet of sandpaper. The three on the lower left have an acute angle on one side so they can get into tight corners. They are also loaded - and labeled - with three different grits of paper. The far right one is sized for 1/2 sheet of sandpaper. Note that the sandpaper is allowed to protrude about 1/8" at the ends which helps in the corners.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This picture shows a typical block. I've learned through trial and error that it's best to index the ends of the blocks and its capture block so it's oriented to the proper end. That's so the screws can find their holes when reloading with sandpaper. The holes in the sanding block itself are counter-bored for the same reason.
> 
> Make the capture block about 1/2" shorter than the sanding block itself at each end (about 1" shorter overall). That will allow you to tightly fit your sandpaper and hold it in place with a spring clamp at each end while you reinstall the capture block.
> 
> You can make custom blocks for convex surfaces too by hollowing out a length of wood for your needs. This takes more care and fastening the sandpaper in place is a little more challenging. Contact cement or hot glue will work OK.
> 
> If you do much hand sanding you are going to create pain in your fingertips, guaranteed. Many people have tricks to protect themselves, but I'm throwing this in here for those who don't. It's a simple matter to apply a little painter's tape to your fingertips to protect them. I've found it works best to first put a short piece of tape over the end of your finger or thumb, then wrap another piece or two around the fingertip. Your tape will stay in place much better this way - and come off easier too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember: "Whatever floats your boat!"


Right on the Mark Erik.


----------



## Bob817

GnarlyErik said:


> *MAKE HAND SANDING ALMOST FUN!*
> 
> Maybe the least fun part of any woodworking project requiring a nice finish is the smoothing and sanding. Over the years I've been taught or learned by trial and error a few little tricks to make things easier and better.
> 
> Many years ago a boat-school-taught guy in the boat shop saw me whaling away with a big disc sander on something and made a snotty remark saying, 'Anybody can WEAR wood!'. The implication was that 'purists' like him depended on very sharp tools only.
> 
> Some may disagree, but to me, that represented pure, crass stupidity (and I told that guy so too). My old man taught me to GET THE DAMNED JOB DONE IN THE QUICKEST AND BEST WAY! (Else, hit the bricks!)
> 
> *CARDINAL SHOP RULE*: Never hesitate to use the tool that works best and fastest - provided you are competent with it of course. If it's a power planer or sander, so be it. But even with the best of power aids, there's a time when you must get down to the nitty-gritty handwork, pardon the pun.
> 
> You can buy rubber sanding blocks for sanding flat and convex surfaces. Today these run from $3 - $6 or so. Flexible foam ones come impregnated with grit for about the same price. The problem with the rubber ones is the sandpaper is hard to load and tends to move back and forth and tear off in hard use. The only real use for the foam ones for me is for cleaning something when used like a Brillo pad. Then you throw it in the trash bin of course.
> 
> You can pick up a handy piece of wood and wrap sandpaper around it for use in corners, or on flat surfaces. This works pretty well but seems like kind of a jury-rig. Why not go a step or two further and create something which is EXACTLY what you need? Best of all it's practically free since it can be made from scrap wood lying around and a couple of screws. Made right, it can work far better than any store-bought rig (my old man would call them 'pearl-handled') you can buy. If you are half-way organized and keep track of it it can last for years.
> 
> The following picture shows an assortment of various sanding blocks and aids I make use of. You can quickly make custom sizes and shapes to fit your project:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The three at the upper left in this picture have pieces of aggressive grit sanding belts glued to them. These last a surprising amount of time before you need to discard them. The others are flat blocks sized in length and girth for 1/4 sheet of sandpaper. The three on the lower left have an acute angle on one side so they can get into tight corners. They are also loaded - and labeled - with three different grits of paper. The far right one is sized for 1/2 sheet of sandpaper. Note that the sandpaper is allowed to protrude about 1/8" at the ends which helps in the corners.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This picture shows a typical block. I've learned through trial and error that it's best to index the ends of the blocks and its capture block so it's oriented to the proper end. That's so the screws can find their holes when reloading with sandpaper. The holes in the sanding block itself are counter-bored for the same reason.
> 
> Make the capture block about 1/2" shorter than the sanding block itself at each end (about 1" shorter overall). That will allow you to tightly fit your sandpaper and hold it in place with a spring clamp at each end while you reinstall the capture block.
> 
> You can make custom blocks for convex surfaces too by hollowing out a length of wood for your needs. This takes more care and fastening the sandpaper in place is a little more challenging. Contact cement or hot glue will work OK.
> 
> If you do much hand sanding you are going to create pain in your fingertips, guaranteed. Many people have tricks to protect themselves, but I'm throwing this in here for those who don't. It's a simple matter to apply a little painter's tape to your fingertips to protect them. I've found it works best to first put a short piece of tape over the end of your finger or thumb, then wrap another piece or two around the fingertip. Your tape will stay in place much better this way - and come off easier too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember: "Whatever floats your boat!"


"CARDINAL SHOP RULE: Never hesitate to use the tool that works best and fastest" 
Great stuff Erik Sadly the common sense in this world is leaving us from one generation and the next.


----------



## ralbuck

GnarlyErik said:


> *MAKE HAND SANDING ALMOST FUN!*
> 
> Maybe the least fun part of any woodworking project requiring a nice finish is the smoothing and sanding. Over the years I've been taught or learned by trial and error a few little tricks to make things easier and better.
> 
> Many years ago a boat-school-taught guy in the boat shop saw me whaling away with a big disc sander on something and made a snotty remark saying, 'Anybody can WEAR wood!'. The implication was that 'purists' like him depended on very sharp tools only.
> 
> Some may disagree, but to me, that represented pure, crass stupidity (and I told that guy so too). My old man taught me to GET THE DAMNED JOB DONE IN THE QUICKEST AND BEST WAY! (Else, hit the bricks!)
> 
> *CARDINAL SHOP RULE*: Never hesitate to use the tool that works best and fastest - provided you are competent with it of course. If it's a power planer or sander, so be it. But even with the best of power aids, there's a time when you must get down to the nitty-gritty handwork, pardon the pun.
> 
> You can buy rubber sanding blocks for sanding flat and convex surfaces. Today these run from $3 - $6 or so. Flexible foam ones come impregnated with grit for about the same price. The problem with the rubber ones is the sandpaper is hard to load and tends to move back and forth and tear off in hard use. The only real use for the foam ones for me is for cleaning something when used like a Brillo pad. Then you throw it in the trash bin of course.
> 
> You can pick up a handy piece of wood and wrap sandpaper around it for use in corners, or on flat surfaces. This works pretty well but seems like kind of a jury-rig. Why not go a step or two further and create something which is EXACTLY what you need? Best of all it's practically free since it can be made from scrap wood lying around and a couple of screws. Made right, it can work far better than any store-bought rig (my old man would call them 'pearl-handled') you can buy. If you are half-way organized and keep track of it it can last for years.
> 
> The following picture shows an assortment of various sanding blocks and aids I make use of. You can quickly make custom sizes and shapes to fit your project:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The three at the upper left in this picture have pieces of aggressive grit sanding belts glued to them. These last a surprising amount of time before you need to discard them. The others are flat blocks sized in length and girth for 1/4 sheet of sandpaper. The three on the lower left have an acute angle on one side so they can get into tight corners. They are also loaded - and labeled - with three different grits of paper. The far right one is sized for 1/2 sheet of sandpaper. Note that the sandpaper is allowed to protrude about 1/8" at the ends which helps in the corners.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This picture shows a typical block. I've learned through trial and error that it's best to index the ends of the blocks and its capture block so it's oriented to the proper end. That's so the screws can find their holes when reloading with sandpaper. The holes in the sanding block itself are counter-bored for the same reason.
> 
> Make the capture block about 1/2" shorter than the sanding block itself at each end (about 1" shorter overall). That will allow you to tightly fit your sandpaper and hold it in place with a spring clamp at each end while you reinstall the capture block.
> 
> You can make custom blocks for convex surfaces too by hollowing out a length of wood for your needs. This takes more care and fastening the sandpaper in place is a little more challenging. Contact cement or hot glue will work OK.
> 
> If you do much hand sanding you are going to create pain in your fingertips, guaranteed. Many people have tricks to protect themselves, but I'm throwing this in here for those who don't. It's a simple matter to apply a little painter's tape to your fingertips to protect them. I've found it works best to first put a short piece of tape over the end of your finger or thumb, then wrap another piece or two around the fingertip. Your tape will stay in place much better this way - and come off easier too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember: "Whatever floats your boat!"


I have used and then discarded hand made jigs for decades too.

Good advice!

Use what works for YOU! Please the person in the mirror.


----------



## GnarlyErik

*SHOP AIDS and PICK-ME-UPS *

The older I get the more I become compromised in physical flexibility. These days it can be a struggle to raise something up off the floor or retrieve something which has rolled into an impossible place (don't they ALWAYS do that)?. If I actually get down on my hands and knees it can be a hassle to get back up again, so I'm always looking for ways to avoid doing that.

Over the years I've devised little 'helpers' for use around my shop. These cost little or nothing and can be extremely handy. Even if you're not as old and compromised as I am, you will likely find some of these very useful. And trust me. Sooner or later if you live long enough, you will get old, stiff and creaky too!

So-called 'Mobility Reachers' have been around for a while and I have a couple about my house. The ones with a little magnet in the end are very handy, which gave me the idea to make use of magnets in my shop.









A typical 'Mobility Reacher'

I've become a HUGE fan of ceramic (AKA 'ferrite') magnets. You can order almost any size online, and many handy sizes come in lots of ten or more. China is the world's main source of ceramic magnets and sells them cheaply. I prefer the ones with a countersunk hole for mounting. Ceramic magnets come in handy for so many things around the shop. Some comparatively small ceramic magnets can lift 100 times their weight or more. A one-inch diameter by 4 mm thick circular magnet can lift a 4" C clamp or a 16-ounce hammer off the floor. Sometimes I put one in my pocket and then stick something to the outside of my pants like pliers, and walk around to amaze the kids with my 'magnetic' personality.

The sweet thing about ceramic magnets is that some are powerful enough to attract things in close proximity. You can slide one under a bench or into other inaccessible places and wave it around, and if there's ferrous metal there it will find it. And how many times have you dropped a small screw or critical pin or other part in a place hard to get to? And how about that box of nails or small screws you've just spilled all over the floor? Ceramic magnets can be your friend in any shop!

But you drop non-magnet things too, and you have to deal with those another way. The reacher is one way and another solution is a little fixed-in-place pin (a common nail) at the end of a stick which can be used to pick up anything you can get the pin to engage. I've made myself several 'retrievers' of various lengths which employ both a magnet and a pin in the ends. These are kept in strategic locations around the shop.

The following photos are pretty self-explanatory:









A 24" pickup stick with magnet and pickup pin









Detail at the business end of 24" pickup stick showing magnet and pin









Detail showing pickup pin (nail) for picking up non-magnetic items









Detail of 40" pickup stick with 1'-1/4" ceramic magnet at one end









Detail at pin end of 40" pickup stick

Another aid is something I call a 'Handy Pick', which can be used for picking up heavy wood parts from the floor without bending over. It is merely a sort of heavy oak club with a 1/4" bolt screwed into one side at the heavy end of the club. The head of the bolt is cut off and the bolt is sharpened to a point. This pin is then driven into the end or side of a heavy plank to enable it to be lifted without bending over very much. The pictures and a short video will give you the idea of how this thing works.









Oak pickup club or 'Handy Pick" for raising heavy wood planks from the floor









Detail of pin end of 'Handy Pick'

*Click here for short video*

Maybe these will give you some ideas to help around your own shop.


----------



## Sylvain

GnarlyErik said:


> *SHOP AIDS and PICK-ME-UPS *
> 
> The older I get the more I become compromised in physical flexibility. These days it can be a struggle to raise something up off the floor or retrieve something which has rolled into an impossible place (don't they ALWAYS do that)?. If I actually get down on my hands and knees it can be a hassle to get back up again, so I'm always looking for ways to avoid doing that.
> 
> Over the years I've devised little 'helpers' for use around my shop. These cost little or nothing and can be extremely handy. Even if you're not as old and compromised as I am, you will likely find some of these very useful. And trust me. Sooner or later if you live long enough, you will get old, stiff and creaky too!
> 
> So-called 'Mobility Reachers' have been around for a while and I have a couple about my house. The ones with a little magnet in the end are very handy, which gave me the idea to make use of magnets in my shop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A typical 'Mobility Reacher'
> 
> I've become a HUGE fan of ceramic (AKA 'ferrite') magnets. You can order almost any size online, and many handy sizes come in lots of ten or more. China is the world's main source of ceramic magnets and sells them cheaply. I prefer the ones with a countersunk hole for mounting. Ceramic magnets come in handy for so many things around the shop. Some comparatively small ceramic magnets can lift 100 times their weight or more. A one-inch diameter by 4 mm thick circular magnet can lift a 4" C clamp or a 16-ounce hammer off the floor. Sometimes I put one in my pocket and then stick something to the outside of my pants like pliers, and walk around to amaze the kids with my 'magnetic' personality.
> 
> The sweet thing about ceramic magnets is that some are powerful enough to attract things in close proximity. You can slide one under a bench or into other inaccessible places and wave it around, and if there's ferrous metal there it will find it. And how many times have you dropped a small screw or critical pin or other part in a place hard to get to? And how about that box of nails or small screws you've just spilled all over the floor? Ceramic magnets can be your friend in any shop!
> 
> But you drop non-magnet things too, and you have to deal with those another way. The reacher is one way and another solution is a little fixed-in-place pin (a common nail) at the end of a stick which can be used to pick up anything you can get the pin to engage. I've made myself several 'retrievers' of various lengths which employ both a magnet and a pin in the ends. These are kept in strategic locations around the shop.
> 
> The following photos are pretty self-explanatory:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A 24" pickup stick with magnet and pickup pin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detail at the business end of 24" pickup stick showing magnet and pin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detail showing pickup pin (nail) for picking up non-magnetic items
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detail of 40" pickup stick with 1'-1/4" ceramic magnet at one end
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detail at pin end of 40" pickup stick
> 
> Another aid is something I call a 'Handy Pick', which can be used for picking up heavy wood parts from the floor without bending over. It is merely a sort of heavy oak club with a 1/4" bolt screwed into one side at the heavy end of the club. The head of the bolt is cut off and the bolt is sharpened to a point. This pin is then driven into the end or side of a heavy plank to enable it to be lifted without bending over very much. The pictures and a short video will give you the idea of how this thing works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oak pickup club or 'Handy Pick" for raising heavy wood planks from the floor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detail of pin end of 'Handy Pick'
> 
> *Click here for short video*
> 
> Maybe these will give you some ideas to help around your own shop.


As you know, French people like to play the " pétanque ".
It is a sport practiced by many elderly.
They use a "ramasse boule " which is a magnet at the end of a cord or laniard.

I have a telescopic arm with a magnet and a led lamp integrated into it. I have bought it for a few Euro with a telescopic arm with a mirror.


----------



## Ocelot

GnarlyErik said:


> *SHOP AIDS and PICK-ME-UPS *
> 
> The older I get the more I become compromised in physical flexibility. These days it can be a struggle to raise something up off the floor or retrieve something which has rolled into an impossible place (don't they ALWAYS do that)?. If I actually get down on my hands and knees it can be a hassle to get back up again, so I'm always looking for ways to avoid doing that.
> 
> Over the years I've devised little 'helpers' for use around my shop. These cost little or nothing and can be extremely handy. Even if you're not as old and compromised as I am, you will likely find some of these very useful. And trust me. Sooner or later if you live long enough, you will get old, stiff and creaky too!
> 
> So-called 'Mobility Reachers' have been around for a while and I have a couple about my house. The ones with a little magnet in the end are very handy, which gave me the idea to make use of magnets in my shop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A typical 'Mobility Reacher'
> 
> I've become a HUGE fan of ceramic (AKA 'ferrite') magnets. You can order almost any size online, and many handy sizes come in lots of ten or more. China is the world's main source of ceramic magnets and sells them cheaply. I prefer the ones with a countersunk hole for mounting. Ceramic magnets come in handy for so many things around the shop. Some comparatively small ceramic magnets can lift 100 times their weight or more. A one-inch diameter by 4 mm thick circular magnet can lift a 4" C clamp or a 16-ounce hammer off the floor. Sometimes I put one in my pocket and then stick something to the outside of my pants like pliers, and walk around to amaze the kids with my 'magnetic' personality.
> 
> The sweet thing about ceramic magnets is that some are powerful enough to attract things in close proximity. You can slide one under a bench or into other inaccessible places and wave it around, and if there's ferrous metal there it will find it. And how many times have you dropped a small screw or critical pin or other part in a place hard to get to? And how about that box of nails or small screws you've just spilled all over the floor? Ceramic magnets can be your friend in any shop!
> 
> But you drop non-magnet things too, and you have to deal with those another way. The reacher is one way and another solution is a little fixed-in-place pin (a common nail) at the end of a stick which can be used to pick up anything you can get the pin to engage. I've made myself several 'retrievers' of various lengths which employ both a magnet and a pin in the ends. These are kept in strategic locations around the shop.
> 
> The following photos are pretty self-explanatory:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A 24" pickup stick with magnet and pickup pin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detail at the business end of 24" pickup stick showing magnet and pin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detail showing pickup pin (nail) for picking up non-magnetic items
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detail of 40" pickup stick with 1'-1/4" ceramic magnet at one end
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detail at pin end of 40" pickup stick
> 
> Another aid is something I call a 'Handy Pick', which can be used for picking up heavy wood parts from the floor without bending over. It is merely a sort of heavy oak club with a 1/4" bolt screwed into one side at the heavy end of the club. The head of the bolt is cut off and the bolt is sharpened to a point. This pin is then driven into the end or side of a heavy plank to enable it to be lifted without bending over very much. The pictures and a short video will give you the idea of how this thing works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oak pickup club or 'Handy Pick" for raising heavy wood planks from the floor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detail of pin end of 'Handy Pick'
> 
> *Click here for short video*
> 
> Maybe these will give you some ideas to help around your own shop.


Handy ideas, Eric!

Trouble is, I have young kids. So, they scatter/hide my nails, screws and small tools all around the shop, so they can take turns with the brother or sister hunting for them and picking them up with a magnetic pickup tool. Of course, they don't find them all, so I'm always seeing little metal things around behind and under things.

I *do* tell them to use the nails and not the GRK cabinet screws, which are a lot more expensive.

<sigh>

-Paul


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *SHOP AIDS and PICK-ME-UPS *
> 
> The older I get the more I become compromised in physical flexibility. These days it can be a struggle to raise something up off the floor or retrieve something which has rolled into an impossible place (don't they ALWAYS do that)?. If I actually get down on my hands and knees it can be a hassle to get back up again, so I'm always looking for ways to avoid doing that.
> 
> Over the years I've devised little 'helpers' for use around my shop. These cost little or nothing and can be extremely handy. Even if you're not as old and compromised as I am, you will likely find some of these very useful. And trust me. Sooner or later if you live long enough, you will get old, stiff and creaky too!
> 
> So-called 'Mobility Reachers' have been around for a while and I have a couple about my house. The ones with a little magnet in the end are very handy, which gave me the idea to make use of magnets in my shop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A typical 'Mobility Reacher'
> 
> I've become a HUGE fan of ceramic (AKA 'ferrite') magnets. You can order almost any size online, and many handy sizes come in lots of ten or more. China is the world's main source of ceramic magnets and sells them cheaply. I prefer the ones with a countersunk hole for mounting. Ceramic magnets come in handy for so many things around the shop. Some comparatively small ceramic magnets can lift 100 times their weight or more. A one-inch diameter by 4 mm thick circular magnet can lift a 4" C clamp or a 16-ounce hammer off the floor. Sometimes I put one in my pocket and then stick something to the outside of my pants like pliers, and walk around to amaze the kids with my 'magnetic' personality.
> 
> The sweet thing about ceramic magnets is that some are powerful enough to attract things in close proximity. You can slide one under a bench or into other inaccessible places and wave it around, and if there's ferrous metal there it will find it. And how many times have you dropped a small screw or critical pin or other part in a place hard to get to? And how about that box of nails or small screws you've just spilled all over the floor? Ceramic magnets can be your friend in any shop!
> 
> But you drop non-magnet things too, and you have to deal with those another way. The reacher is one way and another solution is a little fixed-in-place pin (a common nail) at the end of a stick which can be used to pick up anything you can get the pin to engage. I've made myself several 'retrievers' of various lengths which employ both a magnet and a pin in the ends. These are kept in strategic locations around the shop.
> 
> The following photos are pretty self-explanatory:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A 24" pickup stick with magnet and pickup pin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detail at the business end of 24" pickup stick showing magnet and pin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detail showing pickup pin (nail) for picking up non-magnetic items
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detail of 40" pickup stick with 1'-1/4" ceramic magnet at one end
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detail at pin end of 40" pickup stick
> 
> Another aid is something I call a 'Handy Pick', which can be used for picking up heavy wood parts from the floor without bending over. It is merely a sort of heavy oak club with a 1/4" bolt screwed into one side at the heavy end of the club. The head of the bolt is cut off and the bolt is sharpened to a point. This pin is then driven into the end or side of a heavy plank to enable it to be lifted without bending over very much. The pictures and a short video will give you the idea of how this thing works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oak pickup club or 'Handy Pick" for raising heavy wood planks from the floor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detail of pin end of 'Handy Pick'
> 
> *Click here for short video*
> 
> Maybe these will give you some ideas to help around your own shop.





> As you know, French people like to play the " pétanque ".
> It is a sport practiced by many elderly.
> They use a "ramasse boule " which is a magnet at the end of a cord or laniard.
> 
> I have a telescopic arm with a magnet and a led lamp integrated into it. I have bought it for a few Euro with a telescopic arm with a mirror.
> 
> - Sylvain


Thanks Sylvain - 'Petanque' looks fun but I would have to find someone to play with! I too, have a 'ramasse boule', but bought it as a 'fishing magnet'. It's actually one of those right angle magnetic holder that welders use to hold two metal parts at right angles for welding. It is quite powerful and I use it to 'sweep' for nails or screws in my driveway.


----------



## GnarlyErik

*Naturally Grown Wooden Crooks and Knees*

The subject of wooden 'crooks' (naturally grown 'knees') seems esoteric today, but some people may be interested. After all, when we allow all the 'old school' crafts and skills to be forgotten, they will need to be re-learned if they're ever needed again, won't they?

Old School boatbuilders usually called grown crooks either 'crooks' or 'knees', and used them extensively as knee brackets and bracing to strengthen and reinforce 'joins' of two components which meet a right angles, or near right angles. Examples would be where a ship's deck beam joins a hull frame - and gets a 'hanging knee' to tie the two parts together and provide bracing. When the knee is horizontal as in joining deck beams to the hull to resist racking, or the transom of a boat to the side members it is called a 'lodging knee'. Some knees are massive, as in the knees used in vessels like the US Constitution, and the Mayflower II).

Wooden crooks were also used in large wooden building construction in the past too, as in barns, mills and factories. In building construction they are usually called 'brackets'. Today large wooden buildings depend on bolted bracing installed at 45 degree angles as in post and beam construction - but they are not nearly so attractive to my eye - but then, I may be prejudiced on the subject of crooks. Crooks are sometimes seen today as brackets for holding up robust mantelpieces and the like. When used for mantels, they are often called 'corbels', but corbels can also be made from stone, metal and other materials too. Go figure.

Crooks come in two major flavors, i.e., hardwood crooks and softwood crooks. Perversely, the best and strongest softwood crooks are obtained from root crooks below the ground, while the best hardwood crooks come from limb crooks well above the ground. Neither softwood limb crooks nor hardwood root crooks will last in a marine environment and will quickly rot. Odd, eh? As you might guess, some wood species provide better crooks than others. For example, the best softwood crooks come from larch (hackmatack) and spruce. Here are softwood species which are relatively soft and weak as building materials, yet their roots below the ground are exceptionally strong. And, there are no better hardwood crooks than those from live oak trees, although other oak species and hardwoods are also used. Generally speaking, most larger crooks are from hardwood species, and smaller ones are from softwoods.

A century ago and earlier, there actually used to be 'crook merchants' who gathered, bought and stockpiled crooks for resale to ship, and boat builders and anyone else requiring them, but I don't know of any today. Not that I'm a century old, but I ain't that far off! The point is, if you need a crook today, as in say, building a fine wooden dinghy, or hanging a beautiful new mantelpiece, you will very likely need to gather your own.










Crooks should be gotten out wherever you find them and cut off several inches longer than you expect your need to be. Ideally, you would dry them before sawing them, but that takes up to a year or more. Usually I wind up sawing them, then air drying them for a shorter period. One inch thickness will be moderately dry after two or three months or so. I sometimes speed things up by running a small fan at low speed through the stickered sawn crook slabs for just a few days, although then you run the risk of splitting the ends. If I can get them down to about 12% moisture content in the hot weather and high humidity in my region I am quite happy. I use a small pin type moisture content reader for the readings.

As to gathering crooks, hardwood crooks are easier to get simply because they occur above the ground, and they will usually come in the form of two branches or limbs forking. Sounds more than a little pornographic that way, doesn't it? Anyway, You will normally have a three-pronged piece. (will the porn never stop?). Softwood crooks must be dug out, and are usually found in the roots near where the vertical tree trunk begins to send out horizontal roots. If you are searching for softwood crooks, a good source would be where there is land clearing in process, and the trees are being uprooted. (Be sure to ask permission first!)

With limb crooks, first, cut off the lessor fork. Then take a look at your resulting raw crook, and pick the best side, or the side where it seems most flat in the transverse (long) view. You will want to flatten this side as best as you can. I use a drawknife, then a power jack plane. The flattened side also needs to be straight, so as you cut away and plane, you should keep a straightedge handy to keep checking. A flattened part two or more inches wide is usually sufficient. And, it doesn't need to be absolutely totally straight, but 'near enough'. Know what I mean?










This flattened side goes up against your saw guide/slide. ('Slide' - see below)

After you are happy with the flat siding go to the larger end and strike a centerline parallel with the flat side. At the small end, make another parallel line, but at the same distance from the flat side as your centerline on the large end. This is important, and it should become obvious why as you make your cuts. Now, as carefully as you can, you should use something like a Sharpy pen to make a nice bold 'centerline' down the length. It's not actually a centerline since it is not centered at the smaller end. However, if your crook is big enough, you can lay out the centerline so that it is actually centered on both ends. In that case you will need to work out a way to mount your crook to your slide so your saw lines are parallel with the face of the slide. The big advantage is that your resulting sawn crooks will be near perfect matches (as you work out from the center in pairs).

The backside of a bendy broken bandsaw blade is helpful in connecting the dots so to speak. This will be the line for your first and most important cut.

One big exception to the centerline rule is when your crook is too small to provide more than one sawn crook. Then, you should lay out your saw cuts to either side of the centerline.

I have a shop-made guide 'slide' which consists of two pieces of wood about 6" wide by about 16" long and carefully screwed together at a strict 90 degree angle. The flat side of your crook is tightly clamped to this guide. Depending on which side of the crook you have chosen to flatten, you will end up with either the small end towards your saw blade, or the larger. It doesn't matter, except it's a little easier if the small end is forward.Two clamps are used. I use a bandsaw, but you could use a table saw for at least a partial cut and then finish the off with a bandsaw or "*********************************** Resaw". I believe you probably have access to a bandsaw though, so I will go ahead with that description.










You must be careful to maintain very good control as you saw, and be sure to keep the foot portion of your slide tightly down on the saw table. Since you have double clamped your knee, the saw blade will be approaching one of the clamps as you saw. When near, simply stop the saw and transfer the clamp beyond the blade. Same thing with the second clamp. Once you are through that first cut you are in high cotton and sipping sweet duck soup. Simply re-clamp the resulting two pieces, flat side against your slide, and repeat the process. Depending on the overall size of your crook, and the depth of cut of your saw, you will also likely need to stop the saw once or twice to rotate your crook vertically enough so the ends clear the upper guides of the saw. Always allow at least at least an extra 3/8" or so in the thickness of your pieces for planing since you are bound to end up with a little waviness in your slabs. You will be planing your knees to their desired thickness later.

Just in case someone might misunderstand, the 'centerline' and saw lines for the crook should be on the *INSIDE *of the curve of the crook. If laid out on the outside, there's a good possibility that you will not be able to pass your crook through the saw if the throat depth of the saw is very limited.

The thicker your raw stock is, the more sawn crooks you can get out of them. Anything under about 5" diameter will give you only two 1" crooks if that. The two best crooks will come from either side of your first centerline cut. If you look at your stock carefully you can decide if you can get three (if so, move your 'centerline' accordingly). The best I can do is about four. The sweet thing about the pair of centerline crooks, is that they end up 'booked' (almost duplicate) which is very attractive in things like quarter knees or things which occur in pairs.

Another note - make a thin wooden pattern for the knee(s) you need, to lay on your stock, especially when doing them in pairs. You will use this to adjust around for your best advantage, both as to looks and for function. It probably doesn't need saying, but pay attention to the grain direction in your crook, since from a strength perspective, it should run as near as possible to a 45 degree angle to the joined parts.

(I'm including a few pictures below showing sawn crooks gotten out of a mid-sized pecan limb. These should be self-explanatory)

Happy bracketing!


----------



## Wintergreen78

GnarlyErik said:


> *Naturally Grown Wooden Crooks and Knees*
> 
> The subject of wooden 'crooks' (naturally grown 'knees') seems esoteric today, but some people may be interested. After all, when we allow all the 'old school' crafts and skills to be forgotten, they will need to be re-learned if they're ever needed again, won't they?
> 
> Old School boatbuilders usually called grown crooks either 'crooks' or 'knees', and used them extensively as knee brackets and bracing to strengthen and reinforce 'joins' of two components which meet a right angles, or near right angles. Examples would be where a ship's deck beam joins a hull frame - and gets a 'hanging knee' to tie the two parts together and provide bracing. When the knee is horizontal as in joining deck beams to the hull to resist racking, or the transom of a boat to the side members it is called a 'lodging knee'. Some knees are massive, as in the knees used in vessels like the US Constitution, and the Mayflower II).
> 
> Wooden crooks were also used in large wooden building construction in the past too, as in barns, mills and factories. In building construction they are usually called 'brackets'. Today large wooden buildings depend on bolted bracing installed at 45 degree angles as in post and beam construction - but they are not nearly so attractive to my eye - but then, I may be prejudiced on the subject of crooks. Crooks are sometimes seen today as brackets for holding up robust mantelpieces and the like. When used for mantels, they are often called 'corbels', but corbels can also be made from stone, metal and other materials too. Go figure.
> 
> Crooks come in two major flavors, i.e., hardwood crooks and softwood crooks. Perversely, the best and strongest softwood crooks are obtained from root crooks below the ground, while the best hardwood crooks come from limb crooks well above the ground. Neither softwood limb crooks nor hardwood root crooks will last in a marine environment and will quickly rot. Odd, eh? As you might guess, some wood species provide better crooks than others. For example, the best softwood crooks come from larch (hackmatack) and spruce. Here are softwood species which are relatively soft and weak as building materials, yet their roots below the ground are exceptionally strong. And, there are no better hardwood crooks than those from live oak trees, although other oak species and hardwoods are also used. Generally speaking, most larger crooks are from hardwood species, and smaller ones are from softwoods.
> 
> A century ago and earlier, there actually used to be 'crook merchants' who gathered, bought and stockpiled crooks for resale to ship, and boat builders and anyone else requiring them, but I don't know of any today. Not that I'm a century old, but I ain't that far off! The point is, if you need a crook today, as in say, building a fine wooden dinghy, or hanging a beautiful new mantelpiece, you will very likely need to gather your own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crooks should be gotten out wherever you find them and cut off several inches longer than you expect your need to be. Ideally, you would dry them before sawing them, but that takes up to a year or more. Usually I wind up sawing them, then air drying them for a shorter period. One inch thickness will be moderately dry after two or three months or so. I sometimes speed things up by running a small fan at low speed through the stickered sawn crook slabs for just a few days, although then you run the risk of splitting the ends. If I can get them down to about 12% moisture content in the hot weather and high humidity in my region I am quite happy. I use a small pin type moisture content reader for the readings.
> 
> As to gathering crooks, hardwood crooks are easier to get simply because they occur above the ground, and they will usually come in the form of two branches or limbs forking. Sounds more than a little pornographic that way, doesn't it? Anyway, You will normally have a three-pronged piece. (will the porn never stop?). Softwood crooks must be dug out, and are usually found in the roots near where the vertical tree trunk begins to send out horizontal roots. If you are searching for softwood crooks, a good source would be where there is land clearing in process, and the trees are being uprooted. (Be sure to ask permission first!)
> 
> With limb crooks, first, cut off the lessor fork. Then take a look at your resulting raw crook, and pick the best side, or the side where it seems most flat in the transverse (long) view. You will want to flatten this side as best as you can. I use a drawknife, then a power jack plane. The flattened side also needs to be straight, so as you cut away and plane, you should keep a straightedge handy to keep checking. A flattened part two or more inches wide is usually sufficient. And, it doesn't need to be absolutely totally straight, but 'near enough'. Know what I mean?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This flattened side goes up against your saw guide/slide. ('Slide' - see below)
> 
> After you are happy with the flat siding go to the larger end and strike a centerline parallel with the flat side. At the small end, make another parallel line, but at the same distance from the flat side as your centerline on the large end. This is important, and it should become obvious why as you make your cuts. Now, as carefully as you can, you should use something like a Sharpy pen to make a nice bold 'centerline' down the length. It's not actually a centerline since it is not centered at the smaller end. However, if your crook is big enough, you can lay out the centerline so that it is actually centered on both ends. In that case you will need to work out a way to mount your crook to your slide so your saw lines are parallel with the face of the slide. The big advantage is that your resulting sawn crooks will be near perfect matches (as you work out from the center in pairs).
> 
> The backside of a bendy broken bandsaw blade is helpful in connecting the dots so to speak. This will be the line for your first and most important cut.
> 
> One big exception to the centerline rule is when your crook is too small to provide more than one sawn crook. Then, you should lay out your saw cuts to either side of the centerline.
> 
> I have a shop-made guide 'slide' which consists of two pieces of wood about 6" wide by about 16" long and carefully screwed together at a strict 90 degree angle. The flat side of your crook is tightly clamped to this guide. Depending on which side of the crook you have chosen to flatten, you will end up with either the small end towards your saw blade, or the larger. It doesn't matter, except it's a little easier if the small end is forward.Two clamps are used. I use a bandsaw, but you could use a table saw for at least a partial cut and then finish the off with a bandsaw or "*********************************** Resaw". I believe you probably have access to a bandsaw though, so I will go ahead with that description.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You must be careful to maintain very good control as you saw, and be sure to keep the foot portion of your slide tightly down on the saw table. Since you have double clamped your knee, the saw blade will be approaching one of the clamps as you saw. When near, simply stop the saw and transfer the clamp beyond the blade. Same thing with the second clamp. Once you are through that first cut you are in high cotton and sipping sweet duck soup. Simply re-clamp the resulting two pieces, flat side against your slide, and repeat the process. Depending on the overall size of your crook, and the depth of cut of your saw, you will also likely need to stop the saw once or twice to rotate your crook vertically enough so the ends clear the upper guides of the saw. Always allow at least at least an extra 3/8" or so in the thickness of your pieces for planing since you are bound to end up with a little waviness in your slabs. You will be planing your knees to their desired thickness later.
> 
> Just in case someone might misunderstand, the 'centerline' and saw lines for the crook should be on the *INSIDE *of the curve of the crook. If laid out on the outside, there's a good possibility that you will not be able to pass your crook through the saw if the throat depth of the saw is very limited.
> 
> The thicker your raw stock is, the more sawn crooks you can get out of them. Anything under about 5" diameter will give you only two 1" crooks if that. The two best crooks will come from either side of your first centerline cut. If you look at your stock carefully you can decide if you can get three (if so, move your 'centerline' accordingly). The best I can do is about four. The sweet thing about the pair of centerline crooks, is that they end up 'booked' (almost duplicate) which is very attractive in things like quarter knees or things which occur in pairs.
> 
> Another note - make a thin wooden pattern for the knee(s) you need, to lay on your stock, especially when doing them in pairs. You will use this to adjust around for your best advantage, both as to looks and for function. It probably doesn't need saying, but pay attention to the grain direction in your crook, since from a strength perspective, it should run as near as possible to a 45 degree angle to the joined parts.
> 
> (I'm including a few pictures below showing sawn crooks gotten out of a mid-sized pecan limb. These should be self-explanatory)
> 
> Happy bracketing!


Nice write-up! Now you've got me thinking about tracking down some crooks…


----------



## GnarlyErik

*Small paint jobs and touch-up painting.*

Sometimes I use only small amounts of paints and varnishes out of a fresh can. I use only oil-based finishing materials since I can get a much better finish on wood with those. Plus, as an ancient old codger, almost all of my finishing experience has been with oil-based materials, so there's that. I feel like a vanishing breed since good oil-based paints are getting harder to find.

A common problem however, is once you open a can of paint and use only part of it, the remainder skims over in the can. And, the longer the remainder is undisturbed, the harder the skin gets. That is a function of the relationship between the surface of the remaining paint, and the volume of air in the can.

I used to take a knife or chisel and cut around the edges of the skin, and lift it out of the can. Not only is that very messy, but it takes good paint with it, and the remaining paint begins to skim over again as soon as you put the lid back on the can. And if you're like me and commonly use only a few ounces or so of paint or varnish at the time, you are constantly removing skins each time you reopen the can, and the more you use out of the can, the more the air volume left and the worse it gets!

I've tried just about everything, including leaving a thin film of paint thinner on top of the paint - which is not only hard to do, but doesn't work well since the thinner is the first thing to evaporate. However, over time I've found a way to mostly alleviate the problem.

I beg, borrow or steal pint glass containers with tight-fitting lids from my wife. Something tall and narrow like a jam jar works best. Pour the paint through a fine mesh strainer and fill the jar one-half to three-quarters full of paint and tightly seal the can back up. Incidentally, I DIP the paint out of the larger can with a paper cup and am very careful not to get paint into the grooves where the lid goes. I treat the paint in the jam jar just as I would any paint or varnish I intend to use right away, i.e, thinner as required, and a bit of Penetrol for good flowing characteristics. (I LOVE Penetrol!).










Keep a supply of small paper and plastic cups for use with small quantities of paint. Pouring from the jar into one of those, I now have just the right amount of paint for whatever project I need to paint or varnish. I make sure there is no paint around the lip of the jam jar and seal it tightly back up with the remaining paint. Of course the paint in the jar will skim over too, but here's the deal: The volume or air in the top of the jar is only about one-fiftieth of what might be in the top of a larger can, so your loss each time you use out of the jar will be far less than using from the can. The paint in the can will skim over too, but since you are not reopening each time you need a small amount of paint, you will have only a single much smaller skin to deal with the next time you need paint from the smaller jar.










I do not even bother to remove the skims from the small jar, but just use a chisel or knife to cut a small vee-notch through the skim at the edge of the jar, and simply leave the old skins in place.(I keep a knife on my paint bench for just that purpose). Pour a bit out through the notch to use, straining it if you need to, and ipso-presto, away you go! It's very handy and a good time saver too.

You may need to add a small bit of thinner (I usually don't), or a drying agent, but generally you're ready to go right out of the jar.

it's good to leave at least one skim over the remaining paint in the jar to cut down on air getting to the paint remaining in the jar. It's fine to leave two or three if you make your new vee-notch in the same location as the earlier ones.

On the subject of small paint or varnish jobs and touchups, it is nice to have brushes of higher quality than the foam type, although those have their uses. But nice brushes can get expensive so you don't want to throw them away after every little job, and it can be a hassle to clean and store them too. I have a nifty solution for that.

The quality of the finish provided by artist brushes and especially Chinese calligraphy brushes is very good. You can order several for just a few bucks from eBay, and paint or varnish just flows like magic off them if it's thinned and treated properly.










Once you have your brush(s), get a four to six ounce pill bottle with a plastic cap. Punch or drill a hole in the cap that you can slip the handle of the brush through, but size the hole so there's enough friction to hold the brush suspended. Once the brush has been cleaned, push it through the hole in the cap handle first, and suspend it in about 3/4" of mineral spirits. Make sure the brush tip is a little clear of the bottom of the bottle. It will keep for weeks and months like this since the mineral spirits does not evaporate. Then after use, you can use the original mineral spirits to clean the brush, then squeeze it out gently on a paper towel, then pour in a little more mineral spirits for a 2nd rinse, squeeze it out again and pour in another 3/4" of thinner to leave it in for its hiatus until the next job.










You will save on mineral spirits too. You won't use more than about 2-1/2 ounces to get your brush clean.

A word about today's so-called 'environmentally friendly paint thinner': It may be environmentally friendly, but it definitely IS NOT a good paint thinner. In my experience, mineral spirits or turpentine are the only things which work well for oil-based paints, PERIOD.


----------



## lightweightladylefty

GnarlyErik said:


> *Small paint jobs and touch-up painting.*
> 
> Sometimes I use only small amounts of paints and varnishes out of a fresh can. I use only oil-based finishing materials since I can get a much better finish on wood with those. Plus, as an ancient old codger, almost all of my finishing experience has been with oil-based materials, so there's that. I feel like a vanishing breed since good oil-based paints are getting harder to find.
> 
> A common problem however, is once you open a can of paint and use only part of it, the remainder skims over in the can. And, the longer the remainder is undisturbed, the harder the skin gets. That is a function of the relationship between the surface of the remaining paint, and the volume of air in the can.
> 
> I used to take a knife or chisel and cut around the edges of the skin, and lift it out of the can. Not only is that very messy, but it takes good paint with it, and the remaining paint begins to skim over again as soon as you put the lid back on the can. And if you're like me and commonly use only a few ounces or so of paint or varnish at the time, you are constantly removing skins each time you reopen the can, and the more you use out of the can, the more the air volume left and the worse it gets!
> 
> I've tried just about everything, including leaving a thin film of paint thinner on top of the paint - which is not only hard to do, but doesn't work well since the thinner is the first thing to evaporate. However, over time I've found a way to mostly alleviate the problem.
> 
> I beg, borrow or steal pint glass containers with tight-fitting lids from my wife. Something tall and narrow like a jam jar works best. Pour the paint through a fine mesh strainer and fill the jar one-half to three-quarters full of paint and tightly seal the can back up. Incidentally, I DIP the paint out of the larger can with a paper cup and am very careful not to get paint into the grooves where the lid goes. I treat the paint in the jam jar just as I would any paint or varnish I intend to use right away, i.e, thinner as required, and a bit of Penetrol for good flowing characteristics. (I LOVE Penetrol!).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep a supply of small paper and plastic cups for use with small quantities of paint. Pouring from the jar into one of those, I now have just the right amount of paint for whatever project I need to paint or varnish. I make sure there is no paint around the lip of the jam jar and seal it tightly back up with the remaining paint. Of course the paint in the jar will skim over too, but here's the deal: The volume or air in the top of the jar is only about one-fiftieth of what might be in the top of a larger can, so your loss each time you use out of the jar will be far less than using from the can. The paint in the can will skim over too, but since you are not reopening each time you need a small amount of paint, you will have only a single much smaller skin to deal with the next time you need paint from the smaller jar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not even bother to remove the skims from the small jar, but just use a chisel or knife to cut a small vee-notch through the skim at the edge of the jar, and simply leave the old skins in place.(I keep a knife on my paint bench for just that purpose). Pour a bit out through the notch to use, straining it if you need to, and ipso-presto, away you go! It's very handy and a good time saver too.
> 
> You may need to add a small bit of thinner (I usually don't), or a drying agent, but generally you're ready to go right out of the jar.
> 
> it's good to leave at least one skim over the remaining paint in the jar to cut down on air getting to the paint remaining in the jar. It's fine to leave two or three if you make your new vee-notch in the same location as the earlier ones.
> 
> On the subject of small paint or varnish jobs and touchups, it is nice to have brushes of higher quality than the foam type, although those have their uses. But nice brushes can get expensive so you don't want to throw them away after every little job, and it can be a hassle to clean and store them too. I have a nifty solution for that.
> 
> The quality of the finish provided by artist brushes and especially Chinese calligraphy brushes is very good. You can order several for just a few bucks from eBay, and paint or varnish just flows like magic off them if it's thinned and treated properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once you have your brush(s), get a four to six ounce pill bottle with a plastic cap. Punch or drill a hole in the cap that you can slip the handle of the brush through, but size the hole so there's enough friction to hold the brush suspended. Once the brush has been cleaned, push it through the hole in the cap handle first, and suspend it in about 3/4" of mineral spirits. Make sure the brush tip is a little clear of the bottom of the bottle. It will keep for weeks and months like this since the mineral spirits does not evaporate. Then after use, you can use the original mineral spirits to clean the brush, then squeeze it out gently on a paper towel, then pour in a little more mineral spirits for a 2nd rinse, squeeze it out again and pour in another 3/4" of thinner to leave it in for its hiatus until the next job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You will save on mineral spirits too. You won't use more than about 2-1/2 ounces to get your brush clean.
> 
> A word about today's so-called 'environmentally friendly paint thinner': It may be environmentally friendly, but it definitely IS NOT a good paint thinner. In my experience, mineral spirits or turpentine are the only things which work well for oil-based paints, PERIOD.


Eric,

I've been doing similar for years, but I've pretty much alleviated the skinning over problem. I use a pretty good volume of varnish over a year's time. I purchase quarts when they're cheaper than gallons and use them up quickly enough to (usually) never have them skin over. I clean out the quart cans and save them for the gallon that doesn't get used quickly enough. As soon as I use an inch or two from the gallon can, I divide it into the quarts. As long as I fill them full, they last indefinitely. If I'm not using a lot of varnish, I continually move it into smaller jars with little or no space for air. I've cut down my waste to almost nothing. I've even taken advantage of sales on 2.5 gallon cans of varnish (when their cost is about that of a gallon) and divided it up in the same way.

When cleaning brushes, I squeeze out all excess varnish with a piece of plastic (small recycled plastic bag or cut up bag) and place the brush into a container with a hole that just fits the handle drilled in the lid with enough mineral spirits to immerse and suspend the brush. I frequently use inexpensive foam brushes but still recycle them a few times.

It's amazing how frugal we can be with a little ingenuity!

L/W


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Small paint jobs and touch-up painting.*
> 
> Sometimes I use only small amounts of paints and varnishes out of a fresh can. I use only oil-based finishing materials since I can get a much better finish on wood with those. Plus, as an ancient old codger, almost all of my finishing experience has been with oil-based materials, so there's that. I feel like a vanishing breed since good oil-based paints are getting harder to find.
> 
> A common problem however, is once you open a can of paint and use only part of it, the remainder skims over in the can. And, the longer the remainder is undisturbed, the harder the skin gets. That is a function of the relationship between the surface of the remaining paint, and the volume of air in the can.
> 
> I used to take a knife or chisel and cut around the edges of the skin, and lift it out of the can. Not only is that very messy, but it takes good paint with it, and the remaining paint begins to skim over again as soon as you put the lid back on the can. And if you're like me and commonly use only a few ounces or so of paint or varnish at the time, you are constantly removing skins each time you reopen the can, and the more you use out of the can, the more the air volume left and the worse it gets!
> 
> I've tried just about everything, including leaving a thin film of paint thinner on top of the paint - which is not only hard to do, but doesn't work well since the thinner is the first thing to evaporate. However, over time I've found a way to mostly alleviate the problem.
> 
> I beg, borrow or steal pint glass containers with tight-fitting lids from my wife. Something tall and narrow like a jam jar works best. Pour the paint through a fine mesh strainer and fill the jar one-half to three-quarters full of paint and tightly seal the can back up. Incidentally, I DIP the paint out of the larger can with a paper cup and am very careful not to get paint into the grooves where the lid goes. I treat the paint in the jam jar just as I would any paint or varnish I intend to use right away, i.e, thinner as required, and a bit of Penetrol for good flowing characteristics. (I LOVE Penetrol!).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep a supply of small paper and plastic cups for use with small quantities of paint. Pouring from the jar into one of those, I now have just the right amount of paint for whatever project I need to paint or varnish. I make sure there is no paint around the lip of the jam jar and seal it tightly back up with the remaining paint. Of course the paint in the jar will skim over too, but here's the deal: The volume or air in the top of the jar is only about one-fiftieth of what might be in the top of a larger can, so your loss each time you use out of the jar will be far less than using from the can. The paint in the can will skim over too, but since you are not reopening each time you need a small amount of paint, you will have only a single much smaller skin to deal with the next time you need paint from the smaller jar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not even bother to remove the skims from the small jar, but just use a chisel or knife to cut a small vee-notch through the skim at the edge of the jar, and simply leave the old skins in place.(I keep a knife on my paint bench for just that purpose). Pour a bit out through the notch to use, straining it if you need to, and ipso-presto, away you go! It's very handy and a good time saver too.
> 
> You may need to add a small bit of thinner (I usually don't), or a drying agent, but generally you're ready to go right out of the jar.
> 
> it's good to leave at least one skim over the remaining paint in the jar to cut down on air getting to the paint remaining in the jar. It's fine to leave two or three if you make your new vee-notch in the same location as the earlier ones.
> 
> On the subject of small paint or varnish jobs and touchups, it is nice to have brushes of higher quality than the foam type, although those have their uses. But nice brushes can get expensive so you don't want to throw them away after every little job, and it can be a hassle to clean and store them too. I have a nifty solution for that.
> 
> The quality of the finish provided by artist brushes and especially Chinese calligraphy brushes is very good. You can order several for just a few bucks from eBay, and paint or varnish just flows like magic off them if it's thinned and treated properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once you have your brush(s), get a four to six ounce pill bottle with a plastic cap. Punch or drill a hole in the cap that you can slip the handle of the brush through, but size the hole so there's enough friction to hold the brush suspended. Once the brush has been cleaned, push it through the hole in the cap handle first, and suspend it in about 3/4" of mineral spirits. Make sure the brush tip is a little clear of the bottom of the bottle. It will keep for weeks and months like this since the mineral spirits does not evaporate. Then after use, you can use the original mineral spirits to clean the brush, then squeeze it out gently on a paper towel, then pour in a little more mineral spirits for a 2nd rinse, squeeze it out again and pour in another 3/4" of thinner to leave it in for its hiatus until the next job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You will save on mineral spirits too. You won't use more than about 2-1/2 ounces to get your brush clean.
> 
> A word about today's so-called 'environmentally friendly paint thinner': It may be environmentally friendly, but it definitely IS NOT a good paint thinner. In my experience, mineral spirits or turpentine are the only things which work well for oil-based paints, PERIOD.


Jill-

Thank you for your comment.

Sounds & looks like you use way more paint and varnish than me, I sometimes build furniture too, but most of my projects lately have been pretty small, so I don"t use a lot of paint or varnish - and then only in small amounts of an ounce or so, which is why I fight the skinning. I always have though since I hate to throw away marine varnish which costs me $40 to $50 a quart. But you have a smart approach - keep pouring it into smaller and smaller containers. it's the volume of air which causes the skinning. I'll keep that in mind!

Thanks!

Erik.


----------



## GnarlyErik

*Pencil Nub Therapy*










Woodworkers use lots of pencils. We wear them down to nubs, which then get lost in our pockets. I'm so miserly I always feel bad about tossing three or four inches of good pencils. Some years ago I got tired of contouring my elbows to dig around for nubs in my shirt pockets. So, I came up with this simple little hack which makes me feel better. This can easily be done in one of those times between jobs when you are looking around for something to do.

Scarfing a painted wooden tab or extender make my pencils easily retrievable, plus much easier to find on the workbench. Doing several at once seems to make it worth the time it takes to do it. I use a 6 to 1 scarf ratio, but a shorter scarf will likely do just as well. Obviously you must cut the eraser ends off the pencils, so you lose that function - but still have a plentiful supply of short erasers left on hand!

It's surprising how satisfactory using my pencils now feel! These also make cool gifts for people.

Here is a short pictorial of the process:








Construct a down & dirty scarfing jig!









Cut scarfs in pencil & tabs to match - make sure clamp clears saw blade - DUH!









Pencil after scarf cut









Match the pencil to the tab and glue. A couple of small spring clamps work great for each of these sets.









Smooth up pencil & tabs after glue sets with knife/drawknife/sandpaper, whatever works best for you.









Paint/varnish pencil/tab sets to suit. Bright colors help find the pencils on a busy workbench!









Never lose a pencil again!


----------



## craftsman on the lake

GnarlyErik said:


> *Pencil Nub Therapy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woodworkers use lots of pencils. We wear them down to nubs, which then get lost in our pockets. I'm so miserly I always feel bad about tossing three or four inches of good pencils. Some years ago I got tired of contouring my elbows to dig around for nubs in my shirt pockets. So, I came up with this simple little hack which makes me feel better. This can easily be done in one of those times between jobs when you are looking around for something to do.
> 
> Scarfing a painted wooden tab or extender make my pencils easily retrievable, plus much easier to find on the workbench. Doing several at once seems to make it worth the time it takes to do it. I use a 6 to 1 scarf ratio, but a shorter scarf will likely do just as well. Obviously you must cut the eraser ends off the pencils, so you lose that function - but still have a plentiful supply of short erasers left on hand!
> 
> It's surprising how satisfactory using my pencils now feel! These also make cool gifts for people.
> 
> Here is a short pictorial of the process:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Construct a down & dirty scarfing jig!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut scarfs in pencil & tabs to match - make sure clamp clears saw blade - DUH!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pencil after scarf cut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Match the pencil to the tab and glue. A couple of small spring clamps work great for each of these sets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smooth up pencil & tabs after glue sets with knife/drawknife/sandpaper, whatever works best for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paint/varnish pencil/tab sets to suit. Bright colors help find the pencils on a busy workbench!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never lose a pencil again!


This is a cool idea for someone wanting a little quick project that will make things easier in the long run.

Here's what I do. I have a box of 100 of those cheapies you can find sometimes. I sharpen a couple dozen of them then put them in various places around the shop. On my clamp rack, in the depresion rail of my saw, on my drill press, router table, window sill, etc. So, no matter where I am or where I look, there is a pencil. As you walk around they catch your eye everywhere. You eventually develop a habit memory of where one will be. When I use them I try to put it back, if not then I just pick them up after I use them and put them back or put them someplace I'll see them if I just scan the shop.


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Pencil Nub Therapy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woodworkers use lots of pencils. We wear them down to nubs, which then get lost in our pockets. I'm so miserly I always feel bad about tossing three or four inches of good pencils. Some years ago I got tired of contouring my elbows to dig around for nubs in my shirt pockets. So, I came up with this simple little hack which makes me feel better. This can easily be done in one of those times between jobs when you are looking around for something to do.
> 
> Scarfing a painted wooden tab or extender make my pencils easily retrievable, plus much easier to find on the workbench. Doing several at once seems to make it worth the time it takes to do it. I use a 6 to 1 scarf ratio, but a shorter scarf will likely do just as well. Obviously you must cut the eraser ends off the pencils, so you lose that function - but still have a plentiful supply of short erasers left on hand!
> 
> It's surprising how satisfactory using my pencils now feel! These also make cool gifts for people.
> 
> Here is a short pictorial of the process:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Construct a down & dirty scarfing jig!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut scarfs in pencil & tabs to match - make sure clamp clears saw blade - DUH!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pencil after scarf cut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Match the pencil to the tab and glue. A couple of small spring clamps work great for each of these sets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smooth up pencil & tabs after glue sets with knife/drawknife/sandpaper, whatever works best for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paint/varnish pencil/tab sets to suit. Bright colors help find the pencils on a busy workbench!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never lose a pencil again!


Thanks Craftsman -
I, too like to leave several pencils in specific locations around my shop. But, what I like most is to have the pencil tab sticking up out of my shirt, or overall pocket. It's become almost automatic for me to just reach for the pencil tab.

Oh, and one of the best investments any woodworker can make is is in having one or more electric pencil sharpeners strategically located in the shop. I got mine at Goodwill for $1.50!

Cheers,

Erik


----------



## jstegall

GnarlyErik said:


> *Pencil Nub Therapy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woodworkers use lots of pencils. We wear them down to nubs, which then get lost in our pockets. I'm so miserly I always feel bad about tossing three or four inches of good pencils. Some years ago I got tired of contouring my elbows to dig around for nubs in my shirt pockets. So, I came up with this simple little hack which makes me feel better. This can easily be done in one of those times between jobs when you are looking around for something to do.
> 
> Scarfing a painted wooden tab or extender make my pencils easily retrievable, plus much easier to find on the workbench. Doing several at once seems to make it worth the time it takes to do it. I use a 6 to 1 scarf ratio, but a shorter scarf will likely do just as well. Obviously you must cut the eraser ends off the pencils, so you lose that function - but still have a plentiful supply of short erasers left on hand!
> 
> It's surprising how satisfactory using my pencils now feel! These also make cool gifts for people.
> 
> Here is a short pictorial of the process:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Construct a down & dirty scarfing jig!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut scarfs in pencil & tabs to match - make sure clamp clears saw blade - DUH!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pencil after scarf cut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Match the pencil to the tab and glue. A couple of small spring clamps work great for each of these sets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smooth up pencil & tabs after glue sets with knife/drawknife/sandpaper, whatever works best for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paint/varnish pencil/tab sets to suit. Bright colors help find the pencils on a busy workbench!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never lose a pencil again!


You can even scarf the eraser onto the same addition of wood. I used your idea for a scarf jig and then just used my hand saw to cut it. No electricity used or dust thrown into the air. 
Thanks for posting!


----------



## robscastle

GnarlyErik said:


> *Pencil Nub Therapy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woodworkers use lots of pencils. We wear them down to nubs, which then get lost in our pockets. I'm so miserly I always feel bad about tossing three or four inches of good pencils. Some years ago I got tired of contouring my elbows to dig around for nubs in my shirt pockets. So, I came up with this simple little hack which makes me feel better. This can easily be done in one of those times between jobs when you are looking around for something to do.
> 
> Scarfing a painted wooden tab or extender make my pencils easily retrievable, plus much easier to find on the workbench. Doing several at once seems to make it worth the time it takes to do it. I use a 6 to 1 scarf ratio, but a shorter scarf will likely do just as well. Obviously you must cut the eraser ends off the pencils, so you lose that function - but still have a plentiful supply of short erasers left on hand!
> 
> It's surprising how satisfactory using my pencils now feel! These also make cool gifts for people.
> 
> Here is a short pictorial of the process:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Construct a down & dirty scarfing jig!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut scarfs in pencil & tabs to match - make sure clamp clears saw blade - DUH!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pencil after scarf cut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Match the pencil to the tab and glue. A couple of small spring clamps work great for each of these sets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smooth up pencil & tabs after glue sets with knife/drawknife/sandpaper, whatever works best for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paint/varnish pencil/tab sets to suit. Bright colors help find the pencils on a busy workbench!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never lose a pencil again!


what the !

how about I fly a few newies in for you?


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Pencil Nub Therapy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woodworkers use lots of pencils. We wear them down to nubs, which then get lost in our pockets. I'm so miserly I always feel bad about tossing three or four inches of good pencils. Some years ago I got tired of contouring my elbows to dig around for nubs in my shirt pockets. So, I came up with this simple little hack which makes me feel better. This can easily be done in one of those times between jobs when you are looking around for something to do.
> 
> Scarfing a painted wooden tab or extender make my pencils easily retrievable, plus much easier to find on the workbench. Doing several at once seems to make it worth the time it takes to do it. I use a 6 to 1 scarf ratio, but a shorter scarf will likely do just as well. Obviously you must cut the eraser ends off the pencils, so you lose that function - but still have a plentiful supply of short erasers left on hand!
> 
> It's surprising how satisfactory using my pencils now feel! These also make cool gifts for people.
> 
> Here is a short pictorial of the process:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Construct a down & dirty scarfing jig!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut scarfs in pencil & tabs to match - make sure clamp clears saw blade - DUH!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pencil after scarf cut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Match the pencil to the tab and glue. A couple of small spring clamps work great for each of these sets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smooth up pencil & tabs after glue sets with knife/drawknife/sandpaper, whatever works best for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paint/varnish pencil/tab sets to suit. Bright colors help find the pencils on a busy workbench!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never lose a pencil again!





> what the !
> 
> how about I fly a few newies in for you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool pencils!
> 
> - robscastle


----------



## robscastle

GnarlyErik said:


> *Pencil Nub Therapy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woodworkers use lots of pencils. We wear them down to nubs, which then get lost in our pockets. I'm so miserly I always feel bad about tossing three or four inches of good pencils. Some years ago I got tired of contouring my elbows to dig around for nubs in my shirt pockets. So, I came up with this simple little hack which makes me feel better. This can easily be done in one of those times between jobs when you are looking around for something to do.
> 
> Scarfing a painted wooden tab or extender make my pencils easily retrievable, plus much easier to find on the workbench. Doing several at once seems to make it worth the time it takes to do it. I use a 6 to 1 scarf ratio, but a shorter scarf will likely do just as well. Obviously you must cut the eraser ends off the pencils, so you lose that function - but still have a plentiful supply of short erasers left on hand!
> 
> It's surprising how satisfactory using my pencils now feel! These also make cool gifts for people.
> 
> Here is a short pictorial of the process:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Construct a down & dirty scarfing jig!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut scarfs in pencil & tabs to match - make sure clamp clears saw blade - DUH!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pencil after scarf cut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Match the pencil to the tab and glue. A couple of small spring clamps work great for each of these sets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smooth up pencil & tabs after glue sets with knife/drawknife/sandpaper, whatever works best for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paint/varnish pencil/tab sets to suit. Bright colors help find the pencils on a busy workbench!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never lose a pencil again!


Hey did I tell you the joke about the constipated mathematician?

he needed a pencil to work it out


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Pencil Nub Therapy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woodworkers use lots of pencils. We wear them down to nubs, which then get lost in our pockets. I'm so miserly I always feel bad about tossing three or four inches of good pencils. Some years ago I got tired of contouring my elbows to dig around for nubs in my shirt pockets. So, I came up with this simple little hack which makes me feel better. This can easily be done in one of those times between jobs when you are looking around for something to do.
> 
> Scarfing a painted wooden tab or extender make my pencils easily retrievable, plus much easier to find on the workbench. Doing several at once seems to make it worth the time it takes to do it. I use a 6 to 1 scarf ratio, but a shorter scarf will likely do just as well. Obviously you must cut the eraser ends off the pencils, so you lose that function - but still have a plentiful supply of short erasers left on hand!
> 
> It's surprising how satisfactory using my pencils now feel! These also make cool gifts for people.
> 
> Here is a short pictorial of the process:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Construct a down & dirty scarfing jig!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut scarfs in pencil & tabs to match - make sure clamp clears saw blade - DUH!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pencil after scarf cut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Match the pencil to the tab and glue. A couple of small spring clamps work great for each of these sets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smooth up pencil & tabs after glue sets with knife/drawknife/sandpaper, whatever works best for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paint/varnish pencil/tab sets to suit. Bright colors help find the pencils on a busy workbench!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never lose a pencil again!





> Hey did I tell you the joke about the constipated mathematician?
> 
> he needed a pencil to work it out
> 
> - robscastle


A rabbi, a nun and a sailor walk into a bar The bartender says: "What is this? Some kind of joke?"


----------



## LittleBlackDuck

GnarlyErik said:


> *Pencil Nub Therapy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woodworkers use lots of pencils. We wear them down to nubs, which then get lost in our pockets. I'm so miserly I always feel bad about tossing three or four inches of good pencils. Some years ago I got tired of contouring my elbows to dig around for nubs in my shirt pockets. So, I came up with this simple little hack which makes me feel better. This can easily be done in one of those times between jobs when you are looking around for something to do.
> 
> Scarfing a painted wooden tab or extender make my pencils easily retrievable, plus much easier to find on the workbench. Doing several at once seems to make it worth the time it takes to do it. I use a 6 to 1 scarf ratio, but a shorter scarf will likely do just as well. Obviously you must cut the eraser ends off the pencils, so you lose that function - but still have a plentiful supply of short erasers left on hand!
> 
> It's surprising how satisfactory using my pencils now feel! These also make cool gifts for people.
> 
> Here is a short pictorial of the process:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Construct a down & dirty scarfing jig!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut scarfs in pencil & tabs to match - make sure clamp clears saw blade - DUH!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pencil after scarf cut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Match the pencil to the tab and glue. A couple of small spring clamps work great for each of these sets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smooth up pencil & tabs after glue sets with knife/drawknife/sandpaper, whatever works best for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paint/varnish pencil/tab sets to suit. Bright colors help find the pencils on a busy workbench!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never lose a pencil again!





> Hey did I tell you the joke about the constipated mathematician?
> 
> he needed a pencil to work it out
> 
> - robscastle
> 
> A rabbi, a nun and a sailor walk into a bar
> 
> - GnarlyErik


So which one ordered the pencil?


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Pencil Nub Therapy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woodworkers use lots of pencils. We wear them down to nubs, which then get lost in our pockets. I'm so miserly I always feel bad about tossing three or four inches of good pencils. Some years ago I got tired of contouring my elbows to dig around for nubs in my shirt pockets. So, I came up with this simple little hack which makes me feel better. This can easily be done in one of those times between jobs when you are looking around for something to do.
> 
> Scarfing a painted wooden tab or extender make my pencils easily retrievable, plus much easier to find on the workbench. Doing several at once seems to make it worth the time it takes to do it. I use a 6 to 1 scarf ratio, but a shorter scarf will likely do just as well. Obviously you must cut the eraser ends off the pencils, so you lose that function - but still have a plentiful supply of short erasers left on hand!
> 
> It's surprising how satisfactory using my pencils now feel! These also make cool gifts for people.
> 
> Here is a short pictorial of the process:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Construct a down & dirty scarfing jig!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut scarfs in pencil & tabs to match - make sure clamp clears saw blade - DUH!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pencil after scarf cut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Match the pencil to the tab and glue. A couple of small spring clamps work great for each of these sets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smooth up pencil & tabs after glue sets with knife/drawknife/sandpaper, whatever works best for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paint/varnish pencil/tab sets to suit. Bright colors help find the pencils on a busy workbench!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never lose a pencil again!





> Hey did I tell you the joke about the constipated mathematician?
> 
> he needed a pencil to work it out
> 
> - robscastle
> 
> A rabbi, a nun and a sailor walk into a bar
> 
> - GnarlyErik
> 
> So which one ordered the pencil?
> 
> - LittleBlackDuck


The submarine.


----------



## LittleBlackDuck

GnarlyErik said:


> *Pencil Nub Therapy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woodworkers use lots of pencils. We wear them down to nubs, which then get lost in our pockets. I'm so miserly I always feel bad about tossing three or four inches of good pencils. Some years ago I got tired of contouring my elbows to dig around for nubs in my shirt pockets. So, I came up with this simple little hack which makes me feel better. This can easily be done in one of those times between jobs when you are looking around for something to do.
> 
> Scarfing a painted wooden tab or extender make my pencils easily retrievable, plus much easier to find on the workbench. Doing several at once seems to make it worth the time it takes to do it. I use a 6 to 1 scarf ratio, but a shorter scarf will likely do just as well. Obviously you must cut the eraser ends off the pencils, so you lose that function - but still have a plentiful supply of short erasers left on hand!
> 
> It's surprising how satisfactory using my pencils now feel! These also make cool gifts for people.
> 
> Here is a short pictorial of the process:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Construct a down & dirty scarfing jig!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut scarfs in pencil & tabs to match - make sure clamp clears saw blade - DUH!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pencil after scarf cut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Match the pencil to the tab and glue. A couple of small spring clamps work great for each of these sets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smooth up pencil & tabs after glue sets with knife/drawknife/sandpaper, whatever works best for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paint/varnish pencil/tab sets to suit. Bright colors help find the pencils on a busy workbench!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never lose a pencil again!





> The submarine.
> 
> - GnarlyErik


*Paul* hinted at a yellow one,


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Pencil Nub Therapy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woodworkers use lots of pencils. We wear them down to nubs, which then get lost in our pockets. I'm so miserly I always feel bad about tossing three or four inches of good pencils. Some years ago I got tired of contouring my elbows to dig around for nubs in my shirt pockets. So, I came up with this simple little hack which makes me feel better. This can easily be done in one of those times between jobs when you are looking around for something to do.
> 
> Scarfing a painted wooden tab or extender make my pencils easily retrievable, plus much easier to find on the workbench. Doing several at once seems to make it worth the time it takes to do it. I use a 6 to 1 scarf ratio, but a shorter scarf will likely do just as well. Obviously you must cut the eraser ends off the pencils, so you lose that function - but still have a plentiful supply of short erasers left on hand!
> 
> It's surprising how satisfactory using my pencils now feel! These also make cool gifts for people.
> 
> Here is a short pictorial of the process:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Construct a down & dirty scarfing jig!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut scarfs in pencil & tabs to match - make sure clamp clears saw blade - DUH!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pencil after scarf cut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Match the pencil to the tab and glue. A couple of small spring clamps work great for each of these sets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smooth up pencil & tabs after glue sets with knife/drawknife/sandpaper, whatever works best for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paint/varnish pencil/tab sets to suit. Bright colors help find the pencils on a busy workbench!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never lose a pencil again!





> The submarine.
> 
> - GnarlyErik
> 
> *Paul* hinted at a yellow one,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now THAT looks like half a dead cow - or, a halfhearted rude gesture!
> 
> - LittleBlackDuck


----------



## LittleBlackDuck

GnarlyErik said:


> *Pencil Nub Therapy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woodworkers use lots of pencils. We wear them down to nubs, which then get lost in our pockets. I'm so miserly I always feel bad about tossing three or four inches of good pencils. Some years ago I got tired of contouring my elbows to dig around for nubs in my shirt pockets. So, I came up with this simple little hack which makes me feel better. This can easily be done in one of those times between jobs when you are looking around for something to do.
> 
> Scarfing a painted wooden tab or extender make my pencils easily retrievable, plus much easier to find on the workbench. Doing several at once seems to make it worth the time it takes to do it. I use a 6 to 1 scarf ratio, but a shorter scarf will likely do just as well. Obviously you must cut the eraser ends off the pencils, so you lose that function - but still have a plentiful supply of short erasers left on hand!
> 
> It's surprising how satisfactory using my pencils now feel! These also make cool gifts for people.
> 
> Here is a short pictorial of the process:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Construct a down & dirty scarfing jig!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut scarfs in pencil & tabs to match - make sure clamp clears saw blade - DUH!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pencil after scarf cut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Match the pencil to the tab and glue. A couple of small spring clamps work great for each of these sets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smooth up pencil & tabs after glue sets with knife/drawknife/sandpaper, whatever works best for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paint/varnish pencil/tab sets to suit. Bright colors help find the pencils on a busy workbench!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never lose a pencil again!





> Now THAT looks like half a dead cow - or, a halfhearted rude gesture!
> 
> - GnarlyErik


The udder side looks better. The turd finger is hidden.


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Pencil Nub Therapy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woodworkers use lots of pencils. We wear them down to nubs, which then get lost in our pockets. I'm so miserly I always feel bad about tossing three or four inches of good pencils. Some years ago I got tired of contouring my elbows to dig around for nubs in my shirt pockets. So, I came up with this simple little hack which makes me feel better. This can easily be done in one of those times between jobs when you are looking around for something to do.
> 
> Scarfing a painted wooden tab or extender make my pencils easily retrievable, plus much easier to find on the workbench. Doing several at once seems to make it worth the time it takes to do it. I use a 6 to 1 scarf ratio, but a shorter scarf will likely do just as well. Obviously you must cut the eraser ends off the pencils, so you lose that function - but still have a plentiful supply of short erasers left on hand!
> 
> It's surprising how satisfactory using my pencils now feel! These also make cool gifts for people.
> 
> Here is a short pictorial of the process:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Construct a down & dirty scarfing jig!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut scarfs in pencil & tabs to match - make sure clamp clears saw blade - DUH!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pencil after scarf cut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Match the pencil to the tab and glue. A couple of small spring clamps work great for each of these sets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smooth up pencil & tabs after glue sets with knife/drawknife/sandpaper, whatever works best for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paint/varnish pencil/tab sets to suit. Bright colors help find the pencils on a busy workbench!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never lose a pencil again!





> Now THAT looks like half a dead cow - or, a halfhearted rude gesture!
> 
> - GnarlyErik
> 
> The udder side looks better. The turd finger is hidden.
> 
> - LittleBlackDuck


Probably scraping on a chalkboard somewhere - but, on the udder hand maybe it's just enclosed in a ransom note someplace else . . .


----------



## mafe

GnarlyErik said:


> *Pencil Nub Therapy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woodworkers use lots of pencils. We wear them down to nubs, which then get lost in our pockets. I'm so miserly I always feel bad about tossing three or four inches of good pencils. Some years ago I got tired of contouring my elbows to dig around for nubs in my shirt pockets. So, I came up with this simple little hack which makes me feel better. This can easily be done in one of those times between jobs when you are looking around for something to do.
> 
> Scarfing a painted wooden tab or extender make my pencils easily retrievable, plus much easier to find on the workbench. Doing several at once seems to make it worth the time it takes to do it. I use a 6 to 1 scarf ratio, but a shorter scarf will likely do just as well. Obviously you must cut the eraser ends off the pencils, so you lose that function - but still have a plentiful supply of short erasers left on hand!
> 
> It's surprising how satisfactory using my pencils now feel! These also make cool gifts for people.
> 
> Here is a short pictorial of the process:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Construct a down & dirty scarfing jig!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut scarfs in pencil & tabs to match - make sure clamp clears saw blade - DUH!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pencil after scarf cut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Match the pencil to the tab and glue. A couple of small spring clamps work great for each of these sets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smooth up pencil & tabs after glue sets with knife/drawknife/sandpaper, whatever works best for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paint/varnish pencil/tab sets to suit. Bright colors help find the pencils on a busy workbench!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never lose a pencil again!


They are lovely little pieces of pencil art.
Fine idea.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Pencil Nub Therapy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woodworkers use lots of pencils. We wear them down to nubs, which then get lost in our pockets. I'm so miserly I always feel bad about tossing three or four inches of good pencils. Some years ago I got tired of contouring my elbows to dig around for nubs in my shirt pockets. So, I came up with this simple little hack which makes me feel better. This can easily be done in one of those times between jobs when you are looking around for something to do.
> 
> Scarfing a painted wooden tab or extender make my pencils easily retrievable, plus much easier to find on the workbench. Doing several at once seems to make it worth the time it takes to do it. I use a 6 to 1 scarf ratio, but a shorter scarf will likely do just as well. Obviously you must cut the eraser ends off the pencils, so you lose that function - but still have a plentiful supply of short erasers left on hand!
> 
> It's surprising how satisfactory using my pencils now feel! These also make cool gifts for people.
> 
> Here is a short pictorial of the process:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Construct a down & dirty scarfing jig!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut scarfs in pencil & tabs to match - make sure clamp clears saw blade - DUH!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pencil after scarf cut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Match the pencil to the tab and glue. A couple of small spring clamps work great for each of these sets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smooth up pencil & tabs after glue sets with knife/drawknife/sandpaper, whatever works best for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paint/varnish pencil/tab sets to suit. Bright colors help find the pencils on a busy workbench!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never lose a pencil again!





> They are lovely little pieces of pencil art.
> Fine idea.
> Best thoughts,
> Mads
> 
> - mafe


Thank you Mads -

I checked out some of your projects and your shop looks a lot like my own, except maybe a bit neater. I make my own tools, jigs & fixtures too, so I have things stacked and hanging all over the place. Some things are for-one off projects, so sometimes I have to stop and figure out what I originally made a particular jig for.

Keep up the good work!

Erik


----------



## mafe

GnarlyErik said:


> *Pencil Nub Therapy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woodworkers use lots of pencils. We wear them down to nubs, which then get lost in our pockets. I'm so miserly I always feel bad about tossing three or four inches of good pencils. Some years ago I got tired of contouring my elbows to dig around for nubs in my shirt pockets. So, I came up with this simple little hack which makes me feel better. This can easily be done in one of those times between jobs when you are looking around for something to do.
> 
> Scarfing a painted wooden tab or extender make my pencils easily retrievable, plus much easier to find on the workbench. Doing several at once seems to make it worth the time it takes to do it. I use a 6 to 1 scarf ratio, but a shorter scarf will likely do just as well. Obviously you must cut the eraser ends off the pencils, so you lose that function - but still have a plentiful supply of short erasers left on hand!
> 
> It's surprising how satisfactory using my pencils now feel! These also make cool gifts for people.
> 
> Here is a short pictorial of the process:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Construct a down & dirty scarfing jig!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut scarfs in pencil & tabs to match - make sure clamp clears saw blade - DUH!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pencil after scarf cut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Match the pencil to the tab and glue. A couple of small spring clamps work great for each of these sets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smooth up pencil & tabs after glue sets with knife/drawknife/sandpaper, whatever works best for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paint/varnish pencil/tab sets to suit. Bright colors help find the pencils on a busy workbench!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never lose a pencil again!


Smiles Erik, I know that: *hmmm wonder why I made this jig or where did I put the jig for knobs…* laughs.
Thank you and happy new year,
Mads


----------



## GnarlyErik

*Large Format Compass & Layout Tools*

*Anyone* who spends much time working with wood projects will eventually find themselves making small jigs, tooling and fixtures to do certain jobs, or make them easier or more precise. That's because it's easier, quicker or less expensive than finding something to buy for the job, which usually isn't available anyway.

*Years* ago I made a large compass for laying out some work requiring radii. You can buy 'beam' compasses but they are fuzty to work with, and the beam itself can interfere with making the radius at times. My solution was to make my own down and dirty large format divider style compass pictured here. The arms are stable hardwood (white oak) and the radius bar is mahogany or cherry, I don't recall which. The connections are copper rivets but small bolts could also be used. I like the rivets because those allow the compass to lie flat without damaging anything underneath.










*It's surprising* how often I pull this thing off the wall to use. This one will do a radius of about 18" but a compass for any size is easily made. I think my pictures are self-explanatory.




























(I just recently put the radius arm clamp on the compass. Previously I merely used a spring clamp, but that was imprecise and sometimes interfered with my layout work. I probably should make a curved radius arm, but it works just fine as is.)

*Furthermore,* I am a big fan of 'Inside Reading Folding Rules'. There are a lot of little tricks you can use with a folding rule and although I have several steel tapes, I probably don't use one more than once or twice a year. A folding rule is also handy for making a large radius. My method is to drill a small hole precisely on the 1" mark of the wooden rule. Then, driving a small nail through the hole and into whatever centerpoint your radius needs, it's easy to strike any number of different radii by holding a pencil at the proper point along the rule as you swing the arc. Just don't forget to allow for that 1" deduction on the nether end!










*Along* with folding rules I also have a collection of aluminum straightedges from 12" to 48" and a regular drafting T-square, all of which come in very handy for layout work.

*Lead* weights are very handy for holding 'the other end' of straightedges, T-squares, whatever, and for making graduating curves with battens (bendy strips of thin, straight-grained woods). I have a collection of mismatched lead drafting 'whales' (also called 'ducks') which have a cast-in point for holding battens in place. These have felt glued to the bottom so they can be used with drawings on paper, and they come in handy for all sorts of things besides. These are very handy for holding down the far end of a straightedge, or for holding parts together while glue dries, etc. Bean bags filled with lead shot also work very well.










I just priced a single one of these drafting whales on eBay at $55 + $9.20 shipping! But, you can also make your own with simple equipment around the shop. Here is a humorous blog about making your own whales for your reading pleasure:

https://mulesaw.blogspot.com/2018/09/casting-set-of-drafting-whales.html

I will add one thing to this excellent piece about casting hot lead into a wooden mold. The author of this piece had issues with the wooden mold charring when the hot lead is poured. It is easy to avoid that by simply spraying the inside of the mold with a couple coats of hi-temperature reflective paint which is sold in auto parts stores for use on engines and manifolds.


----------



## MadMark

GnarlyErik said:


> *Large Format Compass & Layout Tools*
> 
> *Anyone* who spends much time working with wood projects will eventually find themselves making small jigs, tooling and fixtures to do certain jobs, or make them easier or more precise. That's because it's easier, quicker or less expensive than finding something to buy for the job, which usually isn't available anyway.
> 
> *Years* ago I made a large compass for laying out some work requiring radii. You can buy 'beam' compasses but they are fuzty to work with, and the beam itself can interfere with making the radius at times. My solution was to make my own down and dirty large format divider style compass pictured here. The arms are stable hardwood (white oak) and the radius bar is mahogany or cherry, I don't recall which. The connections are copper rivets but small bolts could also be used. I like the rivets because those allow the compass to lie flat without damaging anything underneath.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *It's surprising* how often I pull this thing off the wall to use. This one will do a radius of about 18" but a compass for any size is easily made. I think my pictures are self-explanatory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I just recently put the radius arm clamp on the compass. Previously I merely used a spring clamp, but that was imprecise and sometimes interfered with my layout work. I probably should make a curved radius arm, but it works just fine as is.)
> 
> *Furthermore,* I am a big fan of 'Inside Reading Folding Rules'. There are a lot of little tricks you can use with a folding rule and although I have several steel tapes, I probably don't use one more than once or twice a year. A folding rule is also handy for making a large radius. My method is to drill a small hole precisely on the 1" mark of the wooden rule. Then, driving a small nail through the hole and into whatever centerpoint your radius needs, it's easy to strike any number of different radii by holding a pencil at the proper point along the rule as you swing the arc. Just don't forget to allow for that 1" deduction on the nether end!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Along* with folding rules I also have a collection of aluminum straightedges from 12" to 48" and a regular drafting T-square, all of which come in very handy for layout work.
> 
> *Lead* weights are very handy for holding 'the other end' of straightedges, T-squares, whatever, and for making graduating curves with battens (bendy strips of thin, straight-grained woods). I have a collection of mismatched lead drafting 'whales' (also called 'ducks') which have a cast-in point for holding battens in place. These have felt glued to the bottom so they can be used with drawings on paper, and they come in handy for all sorts of things besides. These are very handy for holding down the far end of a straightedge, or for holding parts together while glue dries, etc. Bean bags filled with lead shot also work very well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just priced a single one of these drafting whales on eBay at $55 + $9.20 shipping! But, you can also make your own with simple equipment around the shop. Here is a humorous blog about making your own whales for your reading pleasure:
> 
> https://mulesaw.blogspot.com/2018/09/casting-set-of-drafting-whales.html
> 
> I will add one thing to this excellent piece about casting hot lead into a wooden mold. The author of this piece had issues with the wooden mold charring when the hot lead is poured. It is easy to avoid that by simply spraying the inside of the mold with a couple coats of hi-temperature reflective paint which is sold in auto parts stores for use on engines and manifolds.


Good tip on the high temp paint. They don't hardly sell drafting tables any more. 

CAD is great, but there is something about an E size drafting table that is so … cozy?


----------



## Sylvain

GnarlyErik said:


> *Large Format Compass & Layout Tools*
> 
> *Anyone* who spends much time working with wood projects will eventually find themselves making small jigs, tooling and fixtures to do certain jobs, or make them easier or more precise. That's because it's easier, quicker or less expensive than finding something to buy for the job, which usually isn't available anyway.
> 
> *Years* ago I made a large compass for laying out some work requiring radii. You can buy 'beam' compasses but they are fuzty to work with, and the beam itself can interfere with making the radius at times. My solution was to make my own down and dirty large format divider style compass pictured here. The arms are stable hardwood (white oak) and the radius bar is mahogany or cherry, I don't recall which. The connections are copper rivets but small bolts could also be used. I like the rivets because those allow the compass to lie flat without damaging anything underneath.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *It's surprising* how often I pull this thing off the wall to use. This one will do a radius of about 18" but a compass for any size is easily made. I think my pictures are self-explanatory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I just recently put the radius arm clamp on the compass. Previously I merely used a spring clamp, but that was imprecise and sometimes interfered with my layout work. I probably should make a curved radius arm, but it works just fine as is.)
> 
> *Furthermore,* I am a big fan of 'Inside Reading Folding Rules'. There are a lot of little tricks you can use with a folding rule and although I have several steel tapes, I probably don't use one more than once or twice a year. A folding rule is also handy for making a large radius. My method is to drill a small hole precisely on the 1" mark of the wooden rule. Then, driving a small nail through the hole and into whatever centerpoint your radius needs, it's easy to strike any number of different radii by holding a pencil at the proper point along the rule as you swing the arc. Just don't forget to allow for that 1" deduction on the nether end!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Along* with folding rules I also have a collection of aluminum straightedges from 12" to 48" and a regular drafting T-square, all of which come in very handy for layout work.
> 
> *Lead* weights are very handy for holding 'the other end' of straightedges, T-squares, whatever, and for making graduating curves with battens (bendy strips of thin, straight-grained woods). I have a collection of mismatched lead drafting 'whales' (also called 'ducks') which have a cast-in point for holding battens in place. These have felt glued to the bottom so they can be used with drawings on paper, and they come in handy for all sorts of things besides. These are very handy for holding down the far end of a straightedge, or for holding parts together while glue dries, etc. Bean bags filled with lead shot also work very well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just priced a single one of these drafting whales on eBay at $55 + $9.20 shipping! But, you can also make your own with simple equipment around the shop. Here is a humorous blog about making your own whales for your reading pleasure:
> 
> https://mulesaw.blogspot.com/2018/09/casting-set-of-drafting-whales.html
> 
> I will add one thing to this excellent piece about casting hot lead into a wooden mold. The author of this piece had issues with the wooden mold charring when the hot lead is poured. It is easy to avoid that by simply spraying the inside of the mold with a couple coats of hi-temperature reflective paint which is sold in auto parts stores for use on engines and manifolds.


As many software, if one doesn't uses it regularly, CAD will not save time. And one has first to learn how to use it.

Drafting tables with drafting machine are still available ( about 2200£ for an A0 [1 m²] size).
Quite an investment if one doesn't uses it regularly.

Although a thick MDF board with two side straight and square and a good T-square would do if needed.


----------



## GnarlyErik

GnarlyErik said:


> *Large Format Compass & Layout Tools*
> 
> *Anyone* who spends much time working with wood projects will eventually find themselves making small jigs, tooling and fixtures to do certain jobs, or make them easier or more precise. That's because it's easier, quicker or less expensive than finding something to buy for the job, which usually isn't available anyway.
> 
> *Years* ago I made a large compass for laying out some work requiring radii. You can buy 'beam' compasses but they are fuzty to work with, and the beam itself can interfere with making the radius at times. My solution was to make my own down and dirty large format divider style compass pictured here. The arms are stable hardwood (white oak) and the radius bar is mahogany or cherry, I don't recall which. The connections are copper rivets but small bolts could also be used. I like the rivets because those allow the compass to lie flat without damaging anything underneath.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *It's surprising* how often I pull this thing off the wall to use. This one will do a radius of about 18" but a compass for any size is easily made. I think my pictures are self-explanatory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I just recently put the radius arm clamp on the compass. Previously I merely used a spring clamp, but that was imprecise and sometimes interfered with my layout work. I probably should make a curved radius arm, but it works just fine as is.)
> 
> *Furthermore,* I am a big fan of 'Inside Reading Folding Rules'. There are a lot of little tricks you can use with a folding rule and although I have several steel tapes, I probably don't use one more than once or twice a year. A folding rule is also handy for making a large radius. My method is to drill a small hole precisely on the 1" mark of the wooden rule. Then, driving a small nail through the hole and into whatever centerpoint your radius needs, it's easy to strike any number of different radii by holding a pencil at the proper point along the rule as you swing the arc. Just don't forget to allow for that 1" deduction on the nether end!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Along* with folding rules I also have a collection of aluminum straightedges from 12" to 48" and a regular drafting T-square, all of which come in very handy for layout work.
> 
> *Lead* weights are very handy for holding 'the other end' of straightedges, T-squares, whatever, and for making graduating curves with battens (bendy strips of thin, straight-grained woods). I have a collection of mismatched lead drafting 'whales' (also called 'ducks') which have a cast-in point for holding battens in place. These have felt glued to the bottom so they can be used with drawings on paper, and they come in handy for all sorts of things besides. These are very handy for holding down the far end of a straightedge, or for holding parts together while glue dries, etc. Bean bags filled with lead shot also work very well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just priced a single one of these drafting whales on eBay at $55 + $9.20 shipping! But, you can also make your own with simple equipment around the shop. Here is a humorous blog about making your own whales for your reading pleasure:
> 
> https://mulesaw.blogspot.com/2018/09/casting-set-of-drafting-whales.html
> 
> I will add one thing to this excellent piece about casting hot lead into a wooden mold. The author of this piece had issues with the wooden mold charring when the hot lead is poured. It is easy to avoid that by simply spraying the inside of the mold with a couple coats of hi-temperature reflective paint which is sold in auto parts stores for use on engines and manifolds.


I have a full-sized architectural drafting table equipped with a 'drafting machine' in my office. I bought it cheaply from an architect's office who was selling off such things. I also have a 36" x 48" drafting board with steel edges in my workshop which I use with a T-square. However, I find myself more often simply using a smaller piece of 3/4" cabinet grade plywood because of its smaller size. With a T-square can be used with anything with one straight edge no matter the shape of the piece.

I am of an age now that I've decided to leave CAD to the younger set, even in the face of its obvious advantages.


----------



## GnarlyErik

*Shop Tips and Tricks #27-B (Stop wasting paint!)*

*As a child of a child of the Great Depression, I have a deeply ingrained respect for conservation of resources.*

I save the smallest bit of usable wood for example, never throw nails away after pulling any, sweep up my sanding dust for glue filler/expander and all sorts of things like that. Maybe I do go overboard with it, but the fact is I simply cannot bear to see anything go to waste.

One thing which has always annoyed me is that it is next to impossible to use all the paint out of a can unless you use it all in one go. If you're doing touch-up, or just use an ounce or two for something, you're almost guaranteed to have a film form over what's left in the can. Guess what that film is made of? Why it's paint of course - paint that you probably paid good money for! It's easy to waste up to a quarter of a quart can of paint if you use it only an ounce or two at the time.

I've tried all kinds of things to combat wasted paint over the years. None of them work as well as I want. I even published a blog entry on this very subject in my Lumberjocks bloghttps://www.lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/130300) a couple years ago.

I did discover that you can buy a sprayable gas to squirt into your paint can after you've used some which is supposed to prevent a film from forming by replacing the air in the can, but that seems like a partial fix to me. But a couple weeks ago I stumbled across something which seems to be working a charm for me, at least in the short term so far. In a hobby store I bought some tempura paint for something or other, and it came in a 4-ounce plastic tube with a closable cap.

"Hmm?" I sez to myself. "Duh! So, THAT'S why expensive artist's paints come in tubes! I wonder if I can clean these tempera tubes out and use them for my oil-based paints?"

I use high-quality oil-based paints and varnish almost exclusively for my work, and cost is one big reason I try not to waste any of it. However, I could see no easy way to clean out the tempera pouches, or get my oil-based paint into the tubes afterwards. So, I started researching resealable plastic pouches and lo and behold, guess what?

By golly, there really are such things made for, of all things, baby food! I ordered a set of six in the seven ounce size to give it a try. They work like a charm! They refill from the bottom with the nozzle cap in place (important!), and since after they are filled they are turned cap side up, all the air rises to the nozzle end where it is squeezed flat. The pouches seal completely with no leakage whatsoever. The paint can be used in any amount, from almost a drop or two to the full amount that's left in the pouch. There is almost no air at all left in the tube when the cap is replaced, therefore no skim can form. If paint starts to firm up in the nozzle area it is easily pulled out since it does not stick to the plastic nozzle or pouch itself. I haven't tried cleaning out any of the pouches yet, but don't see why I should need to do so, since I will merely refill them when they run low.










I got the 'WeeSprouts' brand and those are just perfect! They are designed to be frozen so the plastic is tough and thick. The cost was around $11 for a set of six (I bought a second set after I tried the first ones). There are clear spots in the pouches which allows the color of the paint inside to be seen. When filling, do not fill to more than 3/4 full since when the zip closure is made it will squeeze the paint out. The pouches also allow you to save the leftovers for special custom blended colors for repeats or touch-ups. What's not to love?

There are other brands which fill from one side, but I cannot see how those could work as well although I haven't tried any.

I also save my empty plastic pill bottles which I cut in half on the bandsaw and then use the bottom part for small paint jobs. Small paper cups work too, but the plastic ones will sometimes melt depending on the paint which is put in them.


----------



## tyvekboy

GnarlyErik said:


> *Shop Tips and Tricks #27-B (Stop wasting paint!)*
> 
> *As a child of a child of the Great Depression, I have a deeply ingrained respect for conservation of resources.*
> 
> I save the smallest bit of usable wood for example, never throw nails away after pulling any, sweep up my sanding dust for glue filler/expander and all sorts of things like that. Maybe I do go overboard with it, but the fact is I simply cannot bear to see anything go to waste.
> 
> One thing which has always annoyed me is that it is next to impossible to use all the paint out of a can unless you use it all in one go. If you're doing touch-up, or just use an ounce or two for something, you're almost guaranteed to have a film form over what's left in the can. Guess what that film is made of? Why it's paint of course - paint that you probably paid good money for! It's easy to waste up to a quarter of a quart can of paint if you use it only an ounce or two at the time.
> 
> I've tried all kinds of things to combat wasted paint over the years. None of them work as well as I want. I even published a blog entry on this very subject in my Lumberjocks bloghttps://www.lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/130300) a couple years ago.
> 
> I did discover that you can buy a sprayable gas to squirt into your paint can after you've used some which is supposed to prevent a film from forming by replacing the air in the can, but that seems like a partial fix to me. But a couple weeks ago I stumbled across something which seems to be working a charm for me, at least in the short term so far. In a hobby store I bought some tempura paint for something or other, and it came in a 4-ounce plastic tube with a closable cap.
> 
> "Hmm?" I sez to myself. "Duh! So, THAT'S why expensive artist's paints come in tubes! I wonder if I can clean these tempera tubes out and use them for my oil-based paints?"
> 
> I use high-quality oil-based paints and varnish almost exclusively for my work, and cost is one big reason I try not to waste any of it. However, I could see no easy way to clean out the tempera pouches, or get my oil-based paint into the tubes afterwards. So, I started researching resealable plastic pouches and lo and behold, guess what?
> 
> By golly, there really are such things made for, of all things, baby food! I ordered a set of six in the seven ounce size to give it a try. They work like a charm! They refill from the bottom with the nozzle cap in place (important!), and since after they are filled they are turned cap side up, all the air rises to the nozzle end where it is squeezed flat. The pouches seal completely with no leakage whatsoever. The paint can be used in any amount, from almost a drop or two to the full amount that's left in the pouch. There is almost no air at all left in the tube when the cap is replaced, therefore no skim can form. If paint starts to firm up in the nozzle area it is easily pulled out since it does not stick to the plastic nozzle or pouch itself. I haven't tried cleaning out any of the pouches yet, but don't see why I should need to do so, since I will merely refill them when they run low.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got the 'WeeSprouts' brand and those are just perfect! They are designed to be frozen so the plastic is tough and thick. The cost was around $11 for a set of six (I bought a second set after I tried the first ones). There are clear spots in the pouches which allows the color of the paint inside to be seen. When filling, do not fill to more than 3/4 full since when the zip closure is made it will squeeze the paint out. The pouches also allow you to save the leftovers for special custom blended colors for repeats or touch-ups. What's not to love?
> 
> There are other brands which fill from one side, but I cannot see how those could work as well although I haven't tried any.
> 
> I also save my empty plastic pill bottles which I cut in half on the bandsaw and then use the bottom part for small paint jobs. Small paper cups work too, but the plastic ones will sometimes melt depending on the paint which is put in them.


That is such a great idea. I also found gallon bags but they don't have the zip lock bottom opening like the ones you found. I think they'd work too as all the air can be forced out after filling with paint or other liquid.


----------



## Sylvain

GnarlyErik said:


> *Shop Tips and Tricks #27-B (Stop wasting paint!)*
> 
> *As a child of a child of the Great Depression, I have a deeply ingrained respect for conservation of resources.*
> 
> I save the smallest bit of usable wood for example, never throw nails away after pulling any, sweep up my sanding dust for glue filler/expander and all sorts of things like that. Maybe I do go overboard with it, but the fact is I simply cannot bear to see anything go to waste.
> 
> One thing which has always annoyed me is that it is next to impossible to use all the paint out of a can unless you use it all in one go. If you're doing touch-up, or just use an ounce or two for something, you're almost guaranteed to have a film form over what's left in the can. Guess what that film is made of? Why it's paint of course - paint that you probably paid good money for! It's easy to waste up to a quarter of a quart can of paint if you use it only an ounce or two at the time.
> 
> I've tried all kinds of things to combat wasted paint over the years. None of them work as well as I want. I even published a blog entry on this very subject in my Lumberjocks bloghttps://www.lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/130300) a couple years ago.
> 
> I did discover that you can buy a sprayable gas to squirt into your paint can after you've used some which is supposed to prevent a film from forming by replacing the air in the can, but that seems like a partial fix to me. But a couple weeks ago I stumbled across something which seems to be working a charm for me, at least in the short term so far. In a hobby store I bought some tempura paint for something or other, and it came in a 4-ounce plastic tube with a closable cap.
> 
> "Hmm?" I sez to myself. "Duh! So, THAT'S why expensive artist's paints come in tubes! I wonder if I can clean these tempera tubes out and use them for my oil-based paints?"
> 
> I use high-quality oil-based paints and varnish almost exclusively for my work, and cost is one big reason I try not to waste any of it. However, I could see no easy way to clean out the tempera pouches, or get my oil-based paint into the tubes afterwards. So, I started researching resealable plastic pouches and lo and behold, guess what?
> 
> By golly, there really are such things made for, of all things, baby food! I ordered a set of six in the seven ounce size to give it a try. They work like a charm! They refill from the bottom with the nozzle cap in place (important!), and since after they are filled they are turned cap side up, all the air rises to the nozzle end where it is squeezed flat. The pouches seal completely with no leakage whatsoever. The paint can be used in any amount, from almost a drop or two to the full amount that's left in the pouch. There is almost no air at all left in the tube when the cap is replaced, therefore no skim can form. If paint starts to firm up in the nozzle area it is easily pulled out since it does not stick to the plastic nozzle or pouch itself. I haven't tried cleaning out any of the pouches yet, but don't see why I should need to do so, since I will merely refill them when they run low.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got the 'WeeSprouts' brand and those are just perfect! They are designed to be frozen so the plastic is tough and thick. The cost was around $11 for a set of six (I bought a second set after I tried the first ones). There are clear spots in the pouches which allows the color of the paint inside to be seen. When filling, do not fill to more than 3/4 full since when the zip closure is made it will squeeze the paint out. The pouches also allow you to save the leftovers for special custom blended colors for repeats or touch-ups. What's not to love?
> 
> There are other brands which fill from one side, but I cannot see how those could work as well although I haven't tried any.
> 
> I also save my empty plastic pill bottles which I cut in half on the bandsaw and then use the bottom part for small paint jobs. Small paper cups work too, but the plastic ones will sometimes melt depending on the paint which is put in them.


Very interesting.
Didn't know such pouches exist.


----------



## BigAl98

GnarlyErik said:


> *Shop Tips and Tricks #27-B (Stop wasting paint!)*
> 
> *As a child of a child of the Great Depression, I have a deeply ingrained respect for conservation of resources.*
> 
> I save the smallest bit of usable wood for example, never throw nails away after pulling any, sweep up my sanding dust for glue filler/expander and all sorts of things like that. Maybe I do go overboard with it, but the fact is I simply cannot bear to see anything go to waste.
> 
> One thing which has always annoyed me is that it is next to impossible to use all the paint out of a can unless you use it all in one go. If you're doing touch-up, or just use an ounce or two for something, you're almost guaranteed to have a film form over what's left in the can. Guess what that film is made of? Why it's paint of course - paint that you probably paid good money for! It's easy to waste up to a quarter of a quart can of paint if you use it only an ounce or two at the time.
> 
> I've tried all kinds of things to combat wasted paint over the years. None of them work as well as I want. I even published a blog entry on this very subject in my Lumberjocks bloghttps://www.lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/130300) a couple years ago.
> 
> I did discover that you can buy a sprayable gas to squirt into your paint can after you've used some which is supposed to prevent a film from forming by replacing the air in the can, but that seems like a partial fix to me. But a couple weeks ago I stumbled across something which seems to be working a charm for me, at least in the short term so far. In a hobby store I bought some tempura paint for something or other, and it came in a 4-ounce plastic tube with a closable cap.
> 
> "Hmm?" I sez to myself. "Duh! So, THAT'S why expensive artist's paints come in tubes! I wonder if I can clean these tempera tubes out and use them for my oil-based paints?"
> 
> I use high-quality oil-based paints and varnish almost exclusively for my work, and cost is one big reason I try not to waste any of it. However, I could see no easy way to clean out the tempera pouches, or get my oil-based paint into the tubes afterwards. So, I started researching resealable plastic pouches and lo and behold, guess what?
> 
> By golly, there really are such things made for, of all things, baby food! I ordered a set of six in the seven ounce size to give it a try. They work like a charm! They refill from the bottom with the nozzle cap in place (important!), and since after they are filled they are turned cap side up, all the air rises to the nozzle end where it is squeezed flat. The pouches seal completely with no leakage whatsoever. The paint can be used in any amount, from almost a drop or two to the full amount that's left in the pouch. There is almost no air at all left in the tube when the cap is replaced, therefore no skim can form. If paint starts to firm up in the nozzle area it is easily pulled out since it does not stick to the plastic nozzle or pouch itself. I haven't tried cleaning out any of the pouches yet, but don't see why I should need to do so, since I will merely refill them when they run low.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got the 'WeeSprouts' brand and those are just perfect! They are designed to be frozen so the plastic is tough and thick. The cost was around $11 for a set of six (I bought a second set after I tried the first ones). There are clear spots in the pouches which allows the color of the paint inside to be seen. When filling, do not fill to more than 3/4 full since when the zip closure is made it will squeeze the paint out. The pouches also allow you to save the leftovers for special custom blended colors for repeats or touch-ups. What's not to love?
> 
> There are other brands which fill from one side, but I cannot see how those could work as well although I haven't tried any.
> 
> I also save my empty plastic pill bottles which I cut in half on the bandsaw and then use the bottom part for small paint jobs. Small paper cups work too, but the plastic ones will sometimes melt depending on the paint which is put in them.


What a great idea! Tx's


----------



## Vuddha29

GnarlyErik said:


> *Shop Tips and Tricks #27-B (Stop wasting paint!)*
> 
> *As a child of a child of the Great Depression, I have a deeply ingrained respect for conservation of resources.*
> 
> I save the smallest bit of usable wood for example, never throw nails away after pulling any, sweep up my sanding dust for glue filler/expander and all sorts of things like that. Maybe I do go overboard with it, but the fact is I simply cannot bear to see anything go to waste.
> 
> One thing which has always annoyed me is that it is next to impossible to use all the paint out of a can unless you use it all in one go. If you're doing touch-up, or just use an ounce or two for something, you're almost guaranteed to have a film form over what's left in the can. Guess what that film is made of? Why it's paint of course - paint that you probably paid good money for! It's easy to waste up to a quarter of a quart can of paint if you use it only an ounce or two at the time.
> 
> I've tried all kinds of things to combat wasted paint over the years. None of them work as well as I want. I even published a blog entry on this very subject in my Lumberjocks bloghttps://www.lumberjocks.com/GnarlyErik/blog/130300) a couple years ago.
> 
> I did discover that you can buy a sprayable gas to squirt into your paint can after you've used some which is supposed to prevent a film from forming by replacing the air in the can, but that seems like a partial fix to me. But a couple weeks ago I stumbled across something which seems to be working a charm for me, at least in the short term so far. In a hobby store I bought some tempura paint for something or other, and it came in a 4-ounce plastic tube with a closable cap.
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> "Hmm?" I sez to myself. "Duh! So, THAT'S why expensive artist's paints come in tubes! I wonder if I can clean these tempera tubes out and use them for my oil-based paints?"
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> I use high-quality oil-based paints and varnish almost exclusively for my work, and cost is one big reason I try not to waste any of it. However, I could see no easy way to clean out the tempera pouches, or get my oil-based paint into the tubes afterwards. So, I started researching resealable plastic pouches and lo and behold, guess what?
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> By golly, there really are such things made for, of all things, baby food! I ordered a set of six in the seven ounce size to give it a try. They work like a charm! They refill from the bottom with the nozzle cap in place (important!), and since after they are filled they are turned cap side up, all the air rises to the nozzle end where it is squeezed flat. The pouches seal completely with no leakage whatsoever. The paint can be used in any amount, from almost a drop or two to the full amount that's left in the pouch. There is almost no air at all left in the tube when the cap is replaced, therefore no skim can form. If paint starts to firm up in the nozzle area it is easily pulled out since it does not stick to the plastic nozzle or pouch itself. I haven't tried cleaning out any of the pouches yet, but don't see why I should need to do so, since I will merely refill them when they run low.
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> I got the 'WeeSprouts' brand and those are just perfect! They are designed to be frozen so the plastic is tough and thick. The cost was around $11 for a set of six (I bought a second set after I tried the first ones). There are clear spots in the pouches which allows the color of the paint inside to be seen. When filling, do not fill to more than 3/4 full since when the zip closure is made it will squeeze the paint out. The pouches also allow you to save the leftovers for special custom blended colors for repeats or touch-ups. What's not to love?
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> There are other brands which fill from one side, but I cannot see how those could work as well although I haven't tried any.
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> I also save my empty plastic pill bottles which I cut in half on the bandsaw and then use the bottom part for small paint jobs. Small paper cups work too, but the plastic ones will sometimes melt depending on the paint which is put in them.


Thanks for sharing, great idea!


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