# Shop lighting upgrades to LED?



## swirt (Apr 6, 2010)

Has anyone upgraded their shop lighting to LED yet? After a close call with a board that was too long and one of my 4ft fluorescent shop lights, it got me thinking about swapping them out for LED varieties. I found that there are some out there that allow you snip out / bypass the ballast and install them. They have the advantage of less energy draw, longer life… and for safety reasons, no hazard if you accidentally hit them with a long piece of wood (no glass).

Anybody have firsthand experience with them?


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## bigjoe4265 (May 16, 2010)

I only know they are around $75.00 ea. I'll stick with flourescent for awhile.

Bigjoe


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## RyanBrown (Aug 31, 2009)

I was checking them out at the local fair we had over the last two weeks. There was a guy set up who was selling that kind of stuff. At about $50 per 4' bulb they are waaaaay out of my price range. Of course, they should never ever need replacement, and consume much less power, but it would probably be a decade or more to break even. Fluorescent tube guards are probably a much more economical choice until the price of the LEDs drop by about 500%.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

You can buy a lot of plastic sleeve protectors for $50 to 75 ) They contain the glass when it breaks.


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## swirt (Apr 6, 2010)

I did some ballpark crunching of the numbers. Compared to ordinary T-8 bulbs with plastic sleeves, the LED lights at $75 each would pay for themselves in half of the bulb's lifetime (assuming it lasts as rated…. which it might not) At $50 each it would pay for itself in the lifetime of one Fluorescent bulb (~1/4 the lifetime of the LED bulb)

For me the savings would take many years to be realized (if ever) because my shop time is limited. The advantages I see would be the no waiting for the lamps to warm up. In the winter I can be in the shop for 10 minutes before the fluorescent lights are up to normal. I could also do without the flickering. And the safety of not having to deal with them braking. The protector sleeves contain the glass, but not the mercury vapor (I don't think).

The part I'd like to know is how do they compare lighting wise. Is it a good light to work by? Does it cast funny annoying shadows? ...


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

Another recommendation for the plastic sleeve tube protectors, they are cheap, readily available, and they work very well.


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## KayBee (Jul 6, 2009)

Don't most LED lights give everything a seriously blue hue?


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

I have also been looking at additional lights, here the T5's are about $220 for a 4' fixture with 4 tubes, but the light is more natural, and they are *so much brighter* than my old 8' fixtures.

No hum, start right up, no flicker, I think I will try a couple before fall.

Sure would be nice to have in the dark winter days…


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## swirt (Apr 6, 2010)

@KayBee I think that most of the flashlights and nightlights that use LED go with the bluer option so they look brighter. I think (though don't know firsthand) that house lighting tends toward a warmer yellow. But that is part of why I asked this because I don't know for sure.

@jusfine - The T5's you are talking about are fluorescent or are you talking about LED?


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## Sarit (Oct 21, 2009)

T5's are fluorescent and they are overkill IMO. They are used in planted aquariums because some aquatic plants need lots of light and that light has to penetrate several inches of water given a limited amount of space for the hood.

Lots of less powerful lights will always be better than a few really strong ones. Intense lights are harsh on the eye and having only a few causes harsh shadows (makes it harder to see details). You will also get 4, 4 tube 4' long T8 fixtures for about $220 which will cover a lot more space than a single T5 fixture.


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

Yes, my mistake, swirt, they are not LED.

The electrician who is tying in my DC tomorrow is bringing 4 over so we can see how much better they light up my shop. His price is $170 for 4 tube 4 footers, including tubes.

I am interested to see the difference in my own shop.


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## glassyeyes (Apr 14, 2009)

I would be careful about the light output. Fluorescents are pretty hard to beat. Not fully comparable, but I looked at PAR 30 and PAR 38 LED replacements, and the rated light output was a fraction of the output of either the incandescent or the CFL bulbs. The sleeves are cheap, and they work. A suggestion-a little silicone adhesive at each end makes them more likely to contain the debris when one breaks.


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

jusfine, is your electrician installing troffler lights in the ceiling? That seems expensive for a fluorescent light. I use the cheapo two bulb lights for about $10 at Lowe's.


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## davidpettinger (Aug 21, 2009)

justfine, I like your style. LED is the wave of the future. Technology has made vast improvements. The new warm white lights they have now look better than the fluorescents out there. I have never liked the fact that there is mercury in fluorescent tubes. Cool white fluorescents and led's give off blue light, but I like the neutral white and warm white. I hate CFL's, the instant on are not instant on. They still require time to get fully up and running. I expect also that like everything else the price will come down. Remember when Plasma TV's came out for $5,000.00 for a 36" set.
I replaced the headlight bulbs in my car with LED. What a difference, I paid $150.00 for the pair, but they are well worth the investment. I see farther down the road and don't turn my brights on half as often as before. Plus, bulb replacement for those Halogen was killing me. They go out twice a year and you had disassemble the front end just to change the bulb.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

UnionLabel, What kind of car you have to dissamble the front end to change a light bulb? We had a Ford Aerostar that needed to have the bumper taken off. Frist time Ford told me it caot $150 to change the headlight, I couldn't believe my ears :-((


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## swirt (Apr 6, 2010)

glassyeyes, thanks for the suggestion of the silicon, that's a great idea.


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## davidpettinger (Aug 21, 2009)

Topomax, a 03-04 Nissan Maxima. It actually is the inner fender well and tire. However, if you don't do that, then the plastic bumper has to be loosened anf dropped to get my big meat hook in to get the bulb. Labor rates here are $80 to $100 per hour. Not paying that


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

First is the disclaimer - I am biased toward Fluorescent - I work as the phosphor and Coating designer for Philips Lighting in Fluorescent manufacturing. Of course Philips also makes LED's in Palo Alto.
The US Dept. of Energy is pushing hard for LED, but they have had to back off on these so called retrofits.

Insert DOE Newsletter
DOE's CALiPER program has tested a dozen different LED T8 replacement lamps to date, and the bottom line is that they simply don't perform as well as their fluorescent counterparts - which, in addition, are much less expensive and have fairly long lifetimes. The LED T8s we've tested have fallen short by a significant margin in terms of light output, system efficacy, fixture output, luminaire efficacy, and CRI.
http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publications/pdfs/ssl/t8_replacement-lamps.pdf
So Beware of the hype of the new technology.
1. Fluorescent T8 products today have lifetimes now at up to 46,000 hours. So 1/4 the life of LED is incorrect.
2. LED lifetime is based on the point at which you have 70% output, because LED's dont have filaments that burn out, though the circuits to drive them can and do. The Fluorescent still produces >90% of its initial light output at 46000 hours, vs. 70% for LED.

If we just start with the product mentioned - the performance is:
LED T8 LAMP LAMP LIFE: 50,000 HOURS DL-T8-LED/48 L = 47 1/2" T8 276 LEDS 15 W 1050 LUMENS 6000 K 120 V 
So it is 48 inches, 15 Watts generating 1050 Lumens. 6000K is close to the Fluorescent Daylight deluxe (DX) at home centers and is very blue. Cool white is 4100K and you local Walmart is 5000K so you move to 6000 you are getting bluer.

3. It is true the power is lower for the LED, but look at the "LUMENS" which is the amount of light produced. The T8 lamp (Our Basic 32 Watt version 'Soft White' for consumers on the shelf at home depot) produces 2950 lumens and on current High Frequency Ballasts consume 28 Watts. The LED Retrofit produces only 1050 lumens at 15 watts, so only 1/3 the light at 1/2 the power….for 75 dollars each. To have the same light level you need 3 LED lamps for every T8 you take out. And for those doing the math it takes 45 Watts of LED to equal 28-30 watts of Fluorescent to get the same light output.
So the payback is not there.
Shows we could really save a TON of electricity if we would just sit in the dark.


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

Dave, I read your last comment and laughed out loud. How true.

Thanks for the info.

Any comparisons to the T5 fixtures? They are the ones I purchased and am adding to an area which was never well lit, so maybe paying too much for them now, but needed something anyway.

Will post something after they are installed. Wish I could just snap my fingers and they would be ready…


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

As much as I like the LED lighting I think it's going to be just like computers. The longer they are around the cheaper they will get. Especially at $75.00 per. People will leave them set.


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## swirt (Apr 6, 2010)

Thanks Dave, that is interesting info.


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Hey Randy -
T5 standard (we call HE) which is the 28 watt version delivers 2900 lumens. the is a High Output version that is 54 Watts (also a 49Watt version) that is 5000 lumens.
If you visit a Home depot, you will see the HO 4 lamp system in place. in some older stores there are 6 lamp T5 fixtures. 
What had been found was that they replaced the 400Watt Metal halide "flying Saucer" fixtures with Fluorescent to save energy. But thinking that the 400W lamps were 30,000 lumens, they assumed they needed 6X5000 lumens to be equivalent. 
2 things were found, first since they were changing from really a point source of light with the Metal halide, to the fluorescent, there was better light distribution. So in Retail spaces they target a certain "Foot Candles" on the floor. and only needed the 4 lamp fixture.
For T5 I would for a home shop ~400 sq feet use the 28Watt version if you have a normal ceiling height ~12 feet or less. the HO lamps are more for highbays/big box or warehouses.


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

Thanks Dave.
I have to look at your reply on my laptop, can't folow on the blackberry screen.

I will check the boxes of the ones my electrician supplied when I get home.


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