# Questions about Deft lacquer on turnings



## ForestGrl (Jun 5, 2015)

I'm trying Deft lacquer to finish turned bottle stoppers, and specifically want to try applying with stopper on the lathe using a cloth. The Deft "brushing lacquer" that's available in the high-end paint store states "must not be thinned", but I've read to thin it, so I did. It turned cloudy, even though the components are not cloudy! For those of you who use lacquer with projects on the lathe, how do you go about it? Am looking for a gloss finish.

I just ended up applying it with a cloth straight from the can, dried quickly but not very glossy, so I'm spraying it with Deft now. A gift to be mailed out tomorrow.


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

The brushing lacquer from Deft is thinned already. That said I often thin it further for the first coat that I spray. It also says not to spray it (works perfectly). The cloudy look will disappear as the solvents flash off. I don't use it on turning but i can't imagine anything going haywire.


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## ForestGrl (Jun 5, 2015)

Thanks, I'll give the thinned stuff a shot the next time around. I only thinned it about 1:1, because it did seem pretty thin already.


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## Jim Jakosh (Nov 24, 2009)

Hi Jamie. I always use Deft spray lacquer. I find it is one of the best one on the market. I spray the stoppers off the lathe. I sand with 400 and water between coats. At least after the first coat.

cheers, Jim


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

I'm the odd man out. I hate Deft and will never waste my money on it again !!! I've thinned by 50% and still hated it. How much thinner can you take that crap!


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## ForestGrl (Jun 5, 2015)

> I m the odd man out. I hate Deft and will never waste my money on it again !!! I ve thinned by 50% and still hated it. How much thinner can you take that crap!
> 
> - BurlyBob


Bob, what did it do specifically? Were you brushing, spraying or applying with a cloth? Am curious what problem(s) you ran into with it.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

I've only used brushing lacquer on one turned project. I applied it with a brush at low speed, right out of the can, no thinning. It looked quite nice really, might start using it more often.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

When quit using CA as a finish for pens switched to Deft and very happy. I did not like or get finish wanted by wiping on, but brush and dipping turned out well. Dipping slowest method for pen blanks and there is a learning curve. Works as well as brushing it on which use for larger items.

Always wet sand/polish with micro mesh after the final coat dried. Big box stores stopped carrying Deft around here. Use water and dop of wife's dishwashing soap for sanding/polishing.

I have thinned Deft also and had no problems. Do notice a fogging when using rattle can Deft but think due to humidity, and it dried clear very soon.


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## ForestGrl (Jun 5, 2015)

> When quit using CA as a finish for pens switched to Deft and very happy. I did not like or get finish wanted by wiping on, but brush and dipping turned out well. Dipping slowest method for pen blanks and there is a learning curve. Works as well as brushing it on which use for larger items.
> 
> Always wet sand/polish with micro mesh after the final coat dried. [snip]
> - Wildwood


Am interested in Micromesh, but don't know enough to know what to order. Suggestions? (for small spindle stuff) Also, interested to know what led you to switch from CA. Just watched a video where turner used BLO followed by CA, and it seemed to make a nice finish, thought I might try it. Also happy to know pitfalls in advance.

Here's the Deft stopper, mostly sprayed. Not quite as light-colored as picture appears:


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

I have never had a problem with applying a CA finish and have used BLO or Mineral Oil procedure. Have also use straight CA finish. Have never bought or used accelerator. Became sensitized to the stuff so stopped using it. So do wear gloves and more than just a dust mask when applying. Never used the odor less stuff nor want to buy any.

Finishing with CA can be either a blessing or curse if check problems people have with it over at IAP finishing thread.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f28/

JMHO, easy, fast, and looks good, and problem free. You can get a plastic sheen or natural wood appearance if apply KISS principle! Basically saying when achieve sheen you want stop. Used only medium CA and achieved excellent results. Do not need to use thin, medium, or thick CA or various combinations on the same item.

If found a procedure comfortable with give it a try.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

I was brushing it on and just couldn't get it to smooth out. Also the fumes were overpowering. Honestly, I gave it a concerted effort to make it work and just never found the right combination. A lot of the problem I think was it started setting up to fast. I'm sure it works for some folks it just didn't work for me.


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## Kroden (Apr 23, 2012)

I've tried brushing/wiping it on, and it took too much work to sand it back to smooth.

I've tried the canned spray, and that works fine, but it's quite expensive for how much you get.

I've tried CA and I just don't like how that comes out. It feels/looks like plastic to me. Plus it's messy and hard to clean up.

Lacquer sprayed with HVLP setup works great with Deft (or Watco, or whatever), but it must be thinned (with lacquer thinner of course, nothing else will do). It still needs to be sanded smooth when cured.

I've used General Finishes Wood Turners finish, which is water based. The vapors won't kill you if you're working in an encloses space. Plus pretty quick dry time so you can build up however many layers you want.

As for the micromesh, you order them in packs that come with varying "grits". Personally I hate them. They clog up easily and are expensive to replace. I prefer high grit sandpaper meant for auto detail work - 600/1200/2000 grits.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

I only use MM to finish the finish and always use drop of dish washing soap in my small water bowl. Some people dry sand bare wood with MM just makes no sense to me. Bought my first set from Berea in 2003 and still using it. Have another set from Wood-N-Whimsies which have not used. if need to clean micro mesh only takes soap water and soft brush. Some people put their micro mesh in socks or panty hose and throw that in washing machine with load of laundry to clean.

I like sheets and use on both wood & acrylics. Better to buy a set of pads or sheets but do shop around for best price.

http://www.bereahardwoods.com/pen-kit/sets/Micro_mesh.html

Lot of people like the foam back pads, have no experience with them.

http://www.bereahardwoods.com/pen-kit/sets/Acrylic_finishing_kit.html

I have not used this stuff but woodworking community is moving to sanding & polishing with products like Abranet & Abralon made by the same company more suited for bare wood but with higher grits can use to polish too. Can hand or power san with the stuff.

Both use European P grit equivalent grading system. Abranet more suited for dry sanding and very popular with pen turners sanding on the lathe. Aabralon can dry/wet sand with the stuff.

http://www.mirka.com/en/Abrasives/Net_Sanding_Range/?productgroup=&product=ABRANET___540

http://www.mirka.com/en/Abrasives/Abrasives_By_Name/?productgroup=&product=ABRALON___8A0

There are less expensive alternative to Abranet & Abralon put out by other companies.

Reason went to micro mesh for finishing the finish faster and easier than oil/pumice. Stopped using auto body stuf got that blue dye over everything when wet sanding/polishing a finish. Went to best auto body store in town same result.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

I've never had a problem with micromesh clogging … I put about 1/2" of water in a cake pan and with the micromesh pads in it, then keep the pad wet while I am sanding. The only time I use micromesh is when I am doing acrylic pens.

I, too, am not a fan of CA as a finish. I have had a lot of problems with it fogging up, and as Scott points out it can be messy and hard to cleanup.

For wooden pens, my go-to finish is Hut Crystal Coat. It is fast, easy, and produces a decent finish.

For other small stuff (bottle stoppers, pendants, etc.) I dip the pieces in Deft high gloss brushing lacquer, hang them on a rack, and catch drips/sags with a lint-free cloth as the finish starts to cure. It is easy and results in a nice finish.

For larger stuff (bowls, platters, etc.) I usually go with Danish Oil, topped with wipe-on poly.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> I ve tried brushing/wiping it on, and it took too much work to sand it back to smooth.
> - Scott


I left the lathe turning at lowest speed and it didn't completely eliminate runs but almost.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

I spend more time finishing than actually turning and don't always enjoy it but am willing to try even if means starting over again. Always learn more from my mistakes only wish would stop making same ones or inventing new ones for myself.

Learning curve for brushing lacquer not very steep once get the right brush. Figure out how to dip small items, or pad lacquer on a turning.

Finishing the finish or rubbing out a finish just as easy with little practice. 
Finishing with small items with CA came easy for me so don't know what to tell you other than keep trying.

Just apply the three P's to finishing and you'll enjoy it more!


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## ForestGrl (Jun 5, 2015)

> I was brushing it on and just couldn t get it to smooth out. Also the fumes were overpowering. Honestly, I gave it a concerted effort to make it work and just never found the right combination. A lot of the problem I think was it started setting up to fast. I m sure it works for some folks it just didn t work for me.
> 
> - BurlyBob


I hear ya on the fumes, wow! I'm so much more sensitive to solvents now than I was 40 years ago. Go figure!


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## ForestGrl (Jun 5, 2015)

> [Snip] I ve tried CA and I just don t like how that comes out. It feels/looks like plastic to me. Plus it s messy and hard to clean up.
> [Snip]
> 
> - Scott


I don't think I'd finish anything larger than a wine stopper or a pen with CA, but I am interested in trying this 2-step, quick-on-the-lathe, technique:


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## ForestGrl (Jun 5, 2015)

> I only use MM to finish the finish and always use drop of dish washing soap in my small water bowl. Some people dry sand bare wood with MM just makes no sense to me. Bought my first set from Berea in 2003 and still using it. Have another set from Wood-N-Whimsies which have not used.[Snip]
> - Wildwood


Thanks for all the info and links! (I "snipped" to save space). For flatwork, I love (love) Abranet. It may seem expensive, but I've done duplicate case goods with regular sandpaper, and then with Abranet-same wood, same size, etc. -and the Abranet lasted at least 5x as long and leaves a much cleaner surface when the ROS is hooked up to a vacuum, because the dust goes up through the mesh so easily. Interesting your point about the foam-backed MM, because I read some people complaining about the color of the pads coming off on their work piece. Of course, they may have been spinning too fast, but still. I'll give MM a try sometime soon.

Recently, I've kept a 180 disc of Abranet next to the ginder, and I use it to remove the burr from gouges. Seems to work well and less likely to round over an edge than the diamond stick. Anyone else do this?


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## ForestGrl (Jun 5, 2015)

> [Snip] For other small stuff (bottle stoppers, pendants, etc.) I dip the pieces in Deft high gloss brushing lacquer, hang them on a rack, and catch drips/sags with a lint-free cloth as the finish starts to cure. It is easy and results in a nice finish. [Snip]
> 
> - TheDane


Want to make sure I'm understanding this part correctly-so you're touching the cloth to the stopper when/where the finish drips/sags? Not sure I could be coordinated enough to avoid making a mess! What's your secret (I'm in search of a low-fuss way of finishing stoppers!).


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

Could take a lot of time explaining padding procedure, and many techniques and different finishing products can use. After reading your post think better served having a look at these two products for your bottle stoppers.

CRAFT COAT





General Woodturner's Finish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=E1Kflo93eCM

Yes, expensive if cannot find locally but if want speed here you go. GWT finish is a by-product of their Enduro Floor finish. Think Ed Brown is giving you realistic times for both products and should not vary too much. I lean toward GWT finish because normally people can find locally and been around little longer.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/153331/General-Finishes-Wood-Turners-Finish-8oz.aspx


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## hairy (Sep 23, 2008)

I have never tried Deft. I like rattle can spray lacquer. Easy to use, dries quick. I usually get Minwax brand at the big box store.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

> ... so you re touching the cloth to the stopper when/where the finish drips/sags?


Exactly. A few minutes after the dip, I just touch the *edge* of the lint-free paper towel to the run/sag. The excess lacquer will wick into the towel. It just takes a second or two (don't linger) and keep checking until the lacquer starts to cure.


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## ForestGrl (Jun 5, 2015)

> ... so you re touching the cloth to the stopper when/where the finish drips/sags?
> 
> Exactly. A few minutes after the dip, I just touch the *edge* of the lint-free paper towel to the run/sag. The excess lacquer will wick into the towel. It just takes a second or two (don t linger) and keep checking until the lacquer starts to cure.
> 
> - TheDane


Ahhhh, cool, I understand. I'm a Viva girl, will give this a try.


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## ForestGrl (Jun 5, 2015)

> Could take a lot of time explaining padding procedure, and many techniques and different finishing products can use. After reading your post think better served having a look at these two products for your bottle stoppers.
> 
> CRAFT COAT
> 
> ...


They both look promising for turnings that call for that "warm amber" enhancement, thanks for posting the links.


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## ForestGrl (Jun 5, 2015)

> I have never tried Deft. I like rattle can spray lacquer. Easy to use, dries quick. I usually get Minwax brand at the big box store.
> 
> - hairy


Thanks for the thumbs-up on Minwax brand. I've wondered how it compares to Deft. Sounds like it works well for you. I looked at the S&P Grinders in your projects, nice! Were they finished with MW sprac lac?


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

Forest Girl, examples of pens dipped in Deft. While dipping not a particularly hard procedure on smooth items not exactly fast. Dipping item without smooth transitions from turned elements can offer a small challenge.

Honestly do not know any brand of nitrocellulose lacquer that does not impart an amber hue to wood. Deft does make a water based/borne product, been tool makes wood look cloudy, have no experience with it. Nitrocellulose lacquers have moderate water resistance, but are sensitive to heat and certain solvents. The biggest drawback is their tendency to yellow over time on light colored woods.

You can find many products that claim will not impart a yellow hue, but they do not stop wood yellowing or darkening with age. You can also find many water base products that will not impart an amber hue!

Good luck with it!


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## hairy (Sep 23, 2008)

> I looked at the S&P Grinders in your projects, nice! Were they finished with MW sprac lac?
> - ForestGrl


This one is.http://lumberjocks.com/projects/102805


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