# What do you charge for labor?



## PineSucks (Aug 3, 2015)

A co-worker asked if I'd make him a chessboard for his wife. He made it clear he'd be willing to pay for the finished product, but I have no idea what I should charge.

I figure I would charge $20/hr for labor and whatever I spend on material. I can't imagine I would have to dedicate more than 4 full hours to the project once I get rolling and I already have the material, so I'm thinking of charging $100 for the finished board.

Does this sound reasonable?


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## vikingcape (Jan 3, 2013)

Maybe some other things to consider also:

Once I get rolling….. Isn't the planning faze part of the charge as well? I would definitely add that. Maybe an hour or two.

How about finish time? Is this factored in also? Even if it is two coats of something quick like lacquer, it is at least another hour.

Sanding?

If you have thought of this all just ignore it. I am basing what I do when I play classical guitar for weddings. Some people think that it is only in the hour or two you play at the wedding, but the preparation and time spent before is always a consideration.


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## InstantSiv (Jan 12, 2014)

I would look around for prices on custom made chess boards and base my price off of that. 1. you can see what kind of quality is out there and where your work fits in. 2. Your co-worker gets a fair price. 3. you can determine if it's even worth your time for how much money is involved.


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

When I made one I had a 43" wide belt sander at my disposal. That made sanding the endgrain easy. If you dont have something like this you may want to add hours. Also, you have to cut, glue, plane and glue again and sand. They seem easy, and they are but there is a bit of labor. I was in a fully equipped cabinet shop when I made mine.


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

Depends on how you make it. Are you making it like a cutting board or veneering squares to a piece of MDF and wrapping that in a frame? Whatever you charge make sure the guy knows up front - don't be insulted if he says 'forget it.'


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## PineSucks (Aug 3, 2015)

I'll be making the board from scrap lumber at work - fully outfitted cabinetmaker shop - so the machines needed to complete everything are no issue. We just got a dual drum sander that runs 60/80 and 100/120 grits, which makes getting everything sanded evenly a breeze.

I guess my best bet is to poke around on etsy and see what people are getting for custom chessboards and price accordingly.

Thanks LJ's!


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## WoodNSawdust (Mar 7, 2015)

Know your competition.

I start with the following as a base:
$5 shop fee (covers electricity, glue, sandpaper, etc.)
$16/hour labor (what I think it will take + a couple of hours since it always takes longer than expected)
Cost of materials +20% (covers my time and gas to go get the materials)
$20/hour finishing labor
cost of finishing supplies +20%

Then I will adjust based upon market and customer.
Even if I use a "scrap" (and what is scrap?) board I charge the going rate for it.

Only 1 of the last 5 estimates was turned down. If I go over the estimate they I charge the estimate price and chalk the rest up to learning.


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## sawdust703 (Jul 6, 2014)

+1 to what WoodnSawdust said. I charge $12.50/hr on the scroll saw, $25/hr shop time, which covers shop supplies, finish work, electricity, etc. And I charge wood prices here in our area. I use rough sawn lumber, & it's a little cheaper, & better quality wood than what I can buy "over the counter," so to speak. Some tell me I ain't charging anywhere near enough for the quality of work we do, others gripe because we overcharge. What I done was sit down & figured my average monthly expenses, & then figured out what I wanted to paid per hour. Figured that all together, & come up with the numbers I have. It sounds like ALOT, especially when you get into a scroll project that takes 30 - 40, or more hours. Then I figure out something different.


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

$45 an hour shop rate (just an estimate since I actually use a spreadsheet to calculate rates).Next year after I get the new shop properly organized and efficient shop rates will probably go to $55 an hour. Customers won't see a noticeable increase in pricing because I'll be working much faster.

Some favored customers get better rates but that's because they are very reliable, pay promptly, are easy to work with and send a steady stream of work my way.

A chessboard I could probably pull off in 4 hours counting design, build and delivery. That would put the price around $200 but I'd probably prefer to offer a higher end version at $300. Being rushed into doing a budget project is never a good experience.


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## PineSucks (Aug 3, 2015)

Excellent advice all around. Not sure I'm ready to dive in full time just yet, but it's awesome to know this resource is available!


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

One last thing to consider. If you are looking on Etsy for pricing, I'm not sure you can see the ones that actually sold, and what they sold for. Plus it is national, not regional.

Like eBay, there is a huge difference in what people ask, and what they actually get.

And Etsy does not take into consideration your regional area. Where I live, getting $45 an hour shop rate would never fly for a woodworking shop. I'd never get a job. And in Long Island or Manhatten, a woodworker probably would go broke on a $45 an hour rate. I don't know what your area supports.

I run with a $20 an hour rate, + all materials, + 10%. And that is a "semi-retired" rate that puts folding money in my pocket, and pays an occasional household bill. I could not live off that, but I still have people turn me down money wise, about 15% of the time.

This economy in the last 8 years has generated more people who are frugal than at any time in my life. Disposable income is at an all-time low since the Great Depression and WWII.

Back in the 80's, when I ran my refinishing shop, we charged $15 an hour or so, (+ we always added two-three hours), + materials, + pickup and delivery costs and never got turned down. And that was about 30 years ago.


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## jeffswildwood (Dec 26, 2012)

This is quite informative. I have found that if I charge an hourly rate it would be so expensive no one would buy it. That meaning I am slow. I figure up the wood cost, add a bit to replace my extra items, sandpaper, glue ect. Then raise price from there to a fee me and the buyer can agree on. Some projects I do ok, some not so good. Bu with left over wood I do have projects that there is no wood cost. Those are where I do my best.


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

I price like jeffswildwood. Figure my cost of material + what ever I feel comfortable charging. Most of the time it is about double the COM. I just recently completed a garden bench, cost was just shy of $300. I have just under 40 hours in it and charged $600. My customer was pleased, I am happy. 
I do not do this as a vocation, it is a hobby, as such I don't have a FIXED price for labor. Some smaller projects I am well under minimum wage.


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## Yonak (Mar 27, 2014)

As far as an hourly rate, I think it must depend on the area you're located in. I usually go for $15. I think that's higher than the rate most workers get in my area.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

You want to charge for the product not just your labor ,look on etsy and see what folks charge there for chess boards.Haveing a woodworking business I'd starve to death if I charged $5 an hour, $200 divided by 40 hours = $5 hr. Any customer is going to be pleased if you sell you work for 90% less than a professional ,Sorry Jack,this is not an a personal attack on you ,but people who charge so little hurt professional woodworkers trying to make a living woodworking. Folks say there not doing their work as a vocation but still sell products to people they still call "customers" always puzzles me, this is acting as if you're in business? 
There must be at least 50 other threads that cover this subject on LJs take a look there too McFly.


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## Betsy (Sep 25, 2007)

You have to know your market. I do shows and it took about 3-4 shows at different venues to really find out what price range people would purchase in. One show - it was a little lower than the other - so I have to deal with that. Once I figured that out I now taylor my boards to meet that. I always take boards above the range for that occasional person who is willing to pay more, but I sell way more in the range than out. I make good boards that are priced to make a profit but are also priced to sale. I could carry $200 boards to every show I do and not sale a single one - but I can carry 20 o 30 $55 to $65 boards and sale them all. So you have to fit your market.

I both agree and disagree with Jim - undercutting the pros in the area can hurt their business, however, at some areas/markets you'll not find anyone going to a pro who does what I do to buy a board or a small knick knack. If they can't afford my price range they are not going to pay a pro the price he needs to make a profit/living. But if you hit into the furniture or kitchens, cabinets, etc. I can certainly see Jim's point. But the people not doing this as a vocation but to make a little extra money to do whatever with should not be demonized/disliked/looked down on/criticized/etc. for doing what they like to do and for putting a little money in their pocket. I make good money to supplement my income and for that no apologies are necessary.

Jim - I mean no offense - but I've heard the undercutting issue many times and have actually received a few nasty messages telling me that I should not be doing what I'm doing because I'm hurting the pro business. Oddly enough none of those pros where even in my area - so go figure to vitriol I received. I don't think in the long run the average Joe doing a few shows or selling an occasional project to a friend or acquaintance is going to hurt the pros - just an opinion and I'm sure others will disagree with me. Feel free to disagree - but please no nasty PMs (that's not for you Jim - you're not like that and I know it - it's for the other trolls.)

Just my two cents - spend it wisely.


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## Daruc (Apr 20, 2015)

I agree with you Betsy,

I make my living building cabinetry and ocassionaly, furniture when I can get it.
I have no time or interest doing craft show items and I don't think what your doing has any impact on what I do whatsoever.


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## Yonak (Mar 27, 2014)

> ...undercutting the pros in the area can hurt their business….
> 
> - Betsy


In my opinion, keeping your prices in line with everyone else is pricing oligopoly. We all hate it when the automobile companies and the drug companies do it. I believe in the free market. I'm a pro and I charge the lowest I can afford to. Maybe I undercut others, but I don't think so. If I do, others should figure out how to make theirs as inexpensively as I do while keeping up the same quality as my merchandise.

It's not cutthroat ; it's the free market. I, myself, like it when I find a good price on something that appeals to me and I think people who buy quality woodwork are the same way.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Betsy
No offense taken. You're certainly entitled to your opinion ,like us all. Assuming just because people are selling small objects their not hurting pros ,sounds like you don't think there are pros that sell small items. I can name a good number of LJ members that specialise in small items like,boards,boxes,spoons,pens and more that making their living from what they make. So I guess one of the differences in our opinion may by the definition of what a pro is ? what you can get for any given item well vary depending on the demographics in your area. I'm speaking in general,that in the woodworking business we are all fighting the "Walmart" mentality that many prospective customers come to pros wanting us to beat Walmarts prices already,so when they access individuals actually making items for less than Walmart because they sell things at a loss, it hurts a pro that may have gotten the work at a price the could have made a profit on after they explain to the customer that their joinery and material is much better that the discount product so called furniture or whatever. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.


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## Betsy (Sep 25, 2007)

Jim - your point on small items is well taken. That was not the intent on my comment - I was attempting to make an overall point, but going back after reading your response shows me my literary skills failed me this time. I do know many LJ's make their living on small things - and I did not mean to appear to say they are not pros.

Also - I understand you Wal-Mart analogy. I've faced that at shows as well. People who ask me to lower my price on a board they are eyeing because they can buy one at Wal-Mart for less are given directions to the nearest store - I waste no time with them..

i'm glad you took no offense as none was intended.


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## laketrout36 (Nov 7, 2012)

Interesting topic. Did your coworker indicate what he'd be willing to pay for this custom project? That might be a place to start.


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## sawdustjunkie (Sep 12, 2013)

I had a customer ask for a chess board this summer. I told him it would be made out of Hard Maple, Cherry and have a very nice edge of Walnut. The board was 1 1/2" thick and had 10 coats of wipe on poly.
It took almost 12 real hours to make the board. I told him it would be $175 for the board.
He said go ahead and make it!

After the board was done, I called him and said it was ready, he said that the price was too much, because he bought one for half that price. He even told me where he bought the board.
I looked it up and it was made out of mostly particle board and only had a 1/8" layer of maple and cherry with a very thin border of maple. It also came from China.
I called him back just to let him know he got screwed, because I had found the same board for 1/2 the price he paid for the one he just bought.
Many people really don't have any idea on the amount of work that actually goes into a fine wood product or what to actually pay for it. They are so used to finding crap on Ebay and other sites, without actually looking at the item before they buy it. Many people thing particle board is real wood, because the furniture they have in their house is made out of it so it must be good stuff.
From then on, I ask for 1/2 of the price we agree on before I start making the item. That way if they change their mind, I at least have made up the cost of materials. I think that is fair and nobody gets the shaft. If they don't take the item, I can still sell it to someone else and make up the difference.
That is just my 2 cents on the subject.


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## ClammyBallz (Apr 16, 2015)

> From then on, I ask for 1/2 of the price we agree on before I start making the item. That way if they change their mind, I at least have made up the cost of materials.
> - sawdustjunkie


That's what I do on custom jobs. Hopefully you have them sign a contract that it's a non-refundable deposit.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

Ask what you are comfortable with… makes no difference what 'others' may be charging.

And if it's something you enjoy making, all the better! I once built an outdoor bar for a friend (they bought the materials), and only charged a couple bottles of tequila. Not many 'pro' shops can compete with that 

Cheers,
Brad


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## Betsy (Sep 25, 2007)

For custom boards/projects I also ask for 1/2 up front. I've not had anyone not come through to buy the product - but I'm covered if they do.


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## ClammyBallz (Apr 16, 2015)

Sometimes you make things for the opportunity of experiencing how to make it. The first one you make, you may break even or lose money on, but you'll learn how to make a second one faster and better. In the process, it will open your eyes to how much time it really takes.


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## laketrout36 (Nov 7, 2012)

+1 to what ClammyBallz said.


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## Jenine (Sep 6, 2013)

If you can make a chess board in 4 hours (TOTAL), I would be very impressed. 

I guess if you are friends with a person then charge whatever you like, otherwise I would look at Etsy as others have already recommended.

Do I think you would be undercutting professional woodworkers by charging too little? Nope. I have a friend who is ABSURDLY talented, and he makes many beautiful pieces of furniture for friends. He doesn't charge any of them. It is beyond me how that affects the professional woodworker. Cheap factories do a fine job of that. But guys making projects for friends while enjoying themselves and skill building don't really affect the professional woodworker's shop economy (maybe that is just my opinion).

On the other end of the spectrum, I have another friend who makes gorgeous custom garage doors. Materials cost on each is in the $1000 range. He charges at least $10k for each door. This is the value based system. He is getting WAY more than $20 an hour! But, his clients think his work is an excellent value for what they get (they are so gorgeous). He got $2500 for a regular entry door to the side of a garage last week…maybe I need to get into that job! 

Anyway, I charge $20 per hour of shop time, but I don't tell anyone that. I sit down myself and determine how much time each phase of a project will take (finishing, at LEAST 2 hours for a small project, just the clean up takes forever!). Then I give them a bid. Always charge for "scrap" wood. It isn't scrap anymore if you turned it into to chess board.  Changing blades takes time! Live and learn.

That all said, if you are doing it because you want to earn extra money on your weekends, then charge as little or as much as you like and you will learn pretty quickly how long it takes to complete a project when you are timing yourself in that way. If you are doing it to skill build, then don't worry too much about it. Decide what you want to get and pitch it to him. If he says no, then take the time to make something for yourself  Time yourself and see how long it takes to make your next project in phases. Then you know for next time!


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## PineSucks (Aug 3, 2015)

Whew!

Seems the discussion about just what constitutes a fair, hard-earned day's pay is a spirited one.

I'll take from it what applies to me and hope someone else can do the same.

Now…If I count up all the $0.02 in this thread, I'm already sitting on at least a half dollar of profit, so if y'all do paypal, just go ahead and send that…


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## Betsy (Sep 25, 2007)

> Whew!
> 
> Seems the discussion about just what constitutes a fair, hard-earned day s pay is a spirited one.
> 
> ...


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## InstantSiv (Jan 12, 2014)

> Whew!
> 
> Seems the discussion about just what constitutes a fair, hard-earned day s pay is a spirited one.
> 
> ...


Sorry but I charge a consulting fee… I will be sending you an invoice shortly.


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## Betsy (Sep 25, 2007)

I have no idea how my comment above got into the quote portion - electronics - above me.


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

To Jim and others - twice in my six years of making guitars, I have been accused of being too low cost. That I should automatically charge somewhere starting in the $1500 range and go up radically from there to even above $4000. I don't think what I am doing warrants that kind of money, to be honest.

When I started the business, I actually was focused on providing a low cost alternative to the custom market, and that included cutting some costs. I explain those cuts to people, and some walk away because they don't want the cost cutting items, and some actually walk away because it is still too expensive for some musicians. I have a custom made, beautiful bass finished now for four weeks, waiting for final payment, because the musician is trying to generate the final funds. He is begging me to keep it and not let him lose his guitar and deposit. I probably will hold it for him. I understand his life is not affluent.

With that, a couple years ago when our Woodcraft went out of business for the first time, I found myself at the door waiting for the huge liquidation sale. A fellow recognized my shirt, which had my logo, and asked where I got the shirt. When I told him I owned the company, he started in on me, and it actually took me aback. He ranted on how I was too low cost, was taking builds out of his hands, (I was building about 12-14 guitars a year back then, certainly not a big amount), and he ended by actually screaming in my face, spittle flying, while his wife tried to hold him back. His male friend finally took his arm and said that if he kept on, I could sue him. I never said much of anything, just stood there in awe. And to top it all off, he made acoustic guitars, I make electrics.

About a year later, a local electric guitar business that was struggling started communicating with me, wondering how I did it. They asked me to look into their business since I had almost 30 years of continuous improvement with major companies as my career. They had a big building, tons of tools and loads of overhead. I had my little garage. The differences were so obvious it didn't warrant even talking about it.
He actually sent me emails saying how I was taking food out of the mouths of his children, blah, blah, blah. Stealing his business by staying small. Huh?

Overall, I have built 76 guitars in 6 years, not a dent on anyone's radar. I am actually looking into other things now, since I am getting a bit tired of building guitars. But did I really starve someone else out, or did they just decide to blame me for their own problems on profit. Give me a break on those two people…

I also do a lot of guitar repairs. Probably 50 repairs a year or more. Four went through the shop just last week. And I also repair some violins and cellos. I have a reputation for low cost, doing extra work for little or nothing, and polishing my work when I am done, and pointing out other problems and sometimes correcting them.
I do it because most of the musicians I know who play are not rich, and I'd like to help them out a little.

When I put something in the two galleries I put items in, I put top dollar on those items. If you want to shop in a high end gallery, you pay.
So overall, you could say that I price my stuff to what the market will bear.
And I am usually somewhat busy, and make enough to make me happy, but like I said in other posts, I never tried to live off of it. That is a completely different set of rules, quality levels, and pressure. I applaud those who do, like Jim. But I am not big enough or even trying to take away work from those people. I would never take on a big job, I cannot. I do all the little stuff that I can get, which most shops don't want anyway.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Hey Paul don't be too hard on yourself you may not think your guitars are worth what you sell them for but the folks that buy them disagree with you.  After all do you think Stradivarius thought his violins were worth $16.000,000. ?


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## PineSucks (Aug 3, 2015)

> Whew!
> 
> Seems the discussion about just what constitutes a fair, hard-earned day s pay is a spirited one.
> 
> ...


Ha! Well played!!


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## OldGuysRule (Sep 27, 2015)

*Charge?* You mean you can sell stuff and make money? WOW! And to think I just make stuff that I want to make because I want to. That is being a hobbyist. I'm with a1Jim! I do this stuff as a hobby because it's fun and very relaxing. I wouldn't think of trying to sell anything I've made. That would be taking money out of the pocket of Jim and anyone else who makes a living doing this stuff. Years ago at the urging of my X and some friends, I tried my hand at doing this stuff for a living and all of a sudden it became a job and was no longer fun or relaxing. Don't get me wrong Jim and others may love making a living at doing fine woodwork but, it's not for me. *I WILL NOT* sell anything I make and I hope Jim won't get into an big truck and haul freight as a hobby and collect money for it. I no longer drive, I sit on the phone with a computer all night and help our drivers with their logbooks and directions into places they have never been and so on. And that is how I pay my bills and pay for my love of woodworking. I've looked at Jim's projects and man does he do good work! A real craftsman!! And me I've driven well over 10 million miles accident free. I've hauled all kinds of product to market in all kinds of weather day and night. Made it possible for people to drive to the local store and load up on everything they need to feed their family. To me, doing that and living on the road away from home and loved ones for 30+ plus years safely was my own level of craftsmanship! So I'll leave the cabinet making and all to the craftsman of the shop.

Jim your work is REALLY, REALLY GOOD! You deserve every dime you make and more. Next time you go to the store and buy some Tyson or Hillshire product to feed yourself and your family, remember your helping me feed my family and maybe buy a piece of wood to relax with.

I didn't mean to get this carried away with this. Sorry folks!


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Ha ha Thanks for the kind words Rod. I promise I won't get in a truck and drive a 10 million miles or even 1 mile LOL That's unbelievable My hats off to good buddy, an amazing accomplishment.

Mcfly Sorry I've contributed to Hijacking your thread.


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## Gixxerjoe04 (Jan 31, 2014)

I don't like the people who sell their stuff just a few bucks over cost because they're doing it as a hobby, I'm basically a hobbyist who sells stuff but I like being able to buy new tools and having the hobby pay for itself and then some a little if i can. But I also hate the people who sell stuff for like 8000% over cost/time, obviously an exaggeration but I'm sure you get what I mean. My wife's client had a pretty large serving tray she bought, bout hit the floor when I found out what she paid for it.


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## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

To get $45 an hour it's necessary to get into work that hobbyists can't compete against. I do mostly church and commercial items. The churches are funded by large groups of donors and need large projects completed quickly. No guy working from his garage can retrofit 33 pews and install them in 6 weeks. No hobbyist can crank out 400 little wooden widgets in two days or outfit a wine bar with cabinetry and a wine cellar in two months.

It also helps to work very quickly. Good workflow, good equipment and lots of specialized jigs make a difference.

Yes, a lot of bids get turned down (most homeowners) but that's okay. I'm still completely booked with work for the next two months at least.


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## OldGuysRule (Sep 27, 2015)

OK, I got carried away in the moment! I've only driven close to 6 million miles. Sorry!
I still feel like a Craftsman of the Highways anyway!


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

OK, Jim, I promise not to be hard on myself!
People think I do great repair work on stringed instruments, but I think it is more in knowing what I can do well, rather than being able to do it all. I would never pretend to refinish a section of say, a pre-WWII Gibson acoustic worth $20K. Just not going there since I am not equipped and don't have the full training.

Reglue on a headstock on a $2400 cello so the parents can save the cost of their teenager's carelessness? Yes, I'll do that.

And you are right, JAA, no way I could ever do the size of jobs you are talking about. But I did put up a surround and roof around our drum set at my church. Nice and simple, just a few acoustic issues. 33 pews? No way!

Rod, anybody who can sit in a big rig for 6 million miles and have ZERO accidents is certainly a craftsman in my mind. I cannot imagine how many times you had to make split second decisions, make wise decisions by the thousands and thousands, and all the time no do-over. If I miscut a piece of wood, I go get another piece of wood. If you made a mistake, there were always consequences. Congrats!


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## PineSucks (Aug 3, 2015)

Good points all around on the debate for the high vs low pricing for finished work.

Just to wrap back around to the initial topic, in this particular instance, the work I'll be doing is for a co-worker I'm friendly with, so that's part of what I will take into consideration when giving him a price. Also, neither one of us makes tons of cash in our jobs, so that will probably play into my pricing as well.

I plan on making them something that would almost certainly be well outside their comfort zone if they were to find it in a store somewhere because that's just how I roll.

So after considering the copious advice above, I plan to pay myself $15/hr across the board and try to get it from soup to nuts in 5 hours for a total cost between $75-$100.


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## Daruc (Apr 20, 2015)

Sounds like your set on charging around 100 bucks no matter how you twist it. 
I don't think anything anybody says would change your mind.
That's not a bad thing, just sayin.

Need any idea's?
I'm re-finishing the top of a board I made when I was 18, (1977) 
I still need to spray a couple more coats of lacquer on it. (I hate oak)








Anyway, no matter, charge what you want it's no big deal. 
I don't think you're putting anybody out of business. If so there not worth their salt anyway.

Be sure to show us your build,
Good Luck


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## Gixxerjoe04 (Jan 31, 2014)

6 million miles, that's crazy plus being accident free, hats off to you. I have my class B, just drive once a week for my job when we mix animal feed. Wish I had my A's, lots of job opportunities but like you said, being away from home all the time is probably more of a challenge than the driving I'd think.


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## SpindleMaker (Sep 20, 2013)

I agree with much of what is said in the above-it depends on location and circumstances. My wife and I just closed our Yarn Shop in a very poor, very rural area (1,000 people in 300 square miles). Contrary to common experience, we did not go broke. We just wanted to retire.

My part of the business was making and restoring tools used in fabric arts (spinning wheels, drop spindles, yarn winders, looms, etc.). Most of the time we charged materials plus 10%. Our reasoning was to use the woodwork as a "loss leader" to get the customer in the store. Invariably they spent a great deal more on yarn, fabric, and supplies. They also spread the word on how reasonable our prices were. As a result, we gained customers from literally all parts of the country and western Canada. We also had repeat customers from Australia, New Zealand, and Scotland which seems to me a lot like selling refrigerators to Eskimos. I never did understand the attraction of shopping for yarn in the US when the production factory (the sheep) lived right next door.

In terms of competition, there are only about 20 people total in the US who do what I did on a commercial basis. Virtually all of them charge more that we did. However, they have independent woodworking shops not associated with other aspects of fiber arts. All of us have been swamped with work in spite of the economy. People still want to make their own clothing, quilts, etc. the old fashion way. Much greater satisfaction than just shopping at Walmart.

We found a niche and a method of attracting customers. As a result, we not only survived but flourished in the midst of a very poor area.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Great story Spindle maker,obviously your business approach made lots of sense and lead to great prosperity even in what appeared to be a very poor market place. Great job. If only the rest of us could be so smart as to find a great niche like you did.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Charge what ever you and your coworker are comfortable with.

If you are a professional woodworker and make you living doing so and you're worried about a hobbyist 
making small items for co-workers you need to get into a different line of work. Either there's no customer 
base in you area (the economy) or there's something wrong with your business plan or your work or pricing.


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

I live in sunny southern California, and expect to make $50 an hour when I do any kind of work, whether it is tutoring kids in math or physics (this pays more, actually), or wood or metal working. I have a pet project that I make $80+ NET an hour on, but it's only for a few days a year. For that one, I actually have a salesperson who interfaces with the customer. I just get told how many, and crank them out. The salesperson even delivers. It isn't custom furniture or cabinetry or anything like that, so I'm not cutting into that territory. I'm not going to reveal the product identity unless I get so swamped with work that I have to get subcontractors, who would have to sign a proprietary agreement. I'm not giving up that cash cow!


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

Having spent my life in sales and having sold my shop work on the side for a time, it all boils down to what will your clients pay and how little are you willing to receive for your time. Whatever is in the middle is your take home. A lot depends on what you are selling and the type of clients you are selling to. If you are selling to the mass market, the competition is fierce and the sales price low. If you can find a niche market that has few suppliers you will do better. I made a good bit of money on the side 30 to 40 years ago building one of a kind special props for filming companies shooting television ads. This was a highly specialized area that had very few suppliers. I used the money to build my shop. After the shop was completely fitted out (metal and woodworking) I wanted my time back and got out of it. The schedules were unbelievably tight and you were building something you had never attempted before. These were strange things from a chicken egg that had to open revealing a package of chicken to a 400 sq. foot set with forced perspective of a space ship coming in from outer space, landing, and a water heater rolled out (touting new "space age" technology for Virginia Power and Light). All of it was interesting and fun, but the schedules were extremely tight. With my regular job I had many sleepless nights when a project was going on. The pay was really good as few people would tackle the job. On the other hand, if I was making chopping boards and selling them I'm sure the pay would have been lousy.

Planeman


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## bruc101 (Sep 13, 2008)

When you have an 88 year old neighbor call you up and says if you'll make me another one of those pretty cutting boards like you made me 20 years ago I'll have you a fresh baked crab apple syrup pie waiting on you.

I'll be there in two days!

Paid in full with a fresh baked pie, a hug and thank you and then, what one of those pan of homemade doenuts you make cost me?


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