# Help on choosing Sliding Table Saw or SawStop



## LSGss (Dec 16, 2012)

Hello Fellow woodworkers,

I am looking at purchasing a nicer saw than my current Bosch-4100, although my Bosch is awesome I want something larger and safer. My choices are between a sawstop or a sliding table saw. I am leaning more towards to sliding table saw however they seem to be more expensive. That being said I would like to know what is the best sliding table saw for a hobbiest, including what size table should I purchase. I recently was at the St. Louis woodworking show and saw a Hammer K3. It was a nice looking machine however I have no frame of reference so I wanted to see what people recommend. Although I want to know what the "best" is, I still want the most bang for the buck and nothing that is outrageous or unnecessary for my needs. I also don't need to necessarly purchase a new machine, but would like a newer model. This is a saw I plan on keeping for a long time. I would like to stay around $4k.

Thank you!


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

For sliders I would look at Altendorf and Mini Max, Mini Max being less expensive. The Hammer line of Felder is a hit or miss proposition IMO. Some people have had good experiences with them some like me have not. I think Loren has a Hammer slider, he might be a good source of information on the slider.

As for Saw Stop, there are thousands of posts and pissing matches about it here, just do a search. With the kind of scratch you are willing to spend, you cannot go wrong with either choice, I lean towards the sliders as I think they are more versatile but Saw Stop is not a bad choice at all.


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## LSGss (Dec 16, 2012)

Hi Jorge,

Thank you for your response. I think the minimax entry level SC2 saw does not allow for a dado blade which means I would need to purchase the next level up which would be out of my price range.

I should also mention my other option is to purchase one of the cheaper SS models and upgrade when I am finished with orthopaedic surgery residency.

Thank you,
Lenny


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## Howardh (Jul 22, 2012)

I was looking at the same decision last Spring and ultimately went with a Hammer K3 48×48. It was a great decision. IMO, keeping yours hands a foot away from the blade is the ultimate safety device. I don't do much sheet goods work, I work primarily with hardwoods. The slider makes ripping very easy, especially putting a straight edge on a rough board. The 48" sliding is plenty for me. The 78" would have been too long. It has loads of power and you can get blades from Forrest and others. It exudes quality and I'm not sure what problems others may have had but mine has been fine. See my review here on the site. If you go with the Hammer, you won't regret it. I liked it so much I got their A3-31 J/P and it doesn't disappoint either.


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## mbs (May 8, 2010)

Both are good choices. Most Lumberjocks have standard table saws. If you want more opinions from people with experience on both types of saws you may want to register with the Felder Owners Group. It's a yahoo forum that is a bit difficult to navigate but the people are very helpful. i have a saw stop and a Felder 741. I don't have enough experience with the Felder to give you a recommendation yet.


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## MonteCristo (May 29, 2012)

Strange either/or. Most Sawstop owners are convinced the saw will save their butts, well at least a few fingers. If you think that is so, buy a Sawstop. Personally, I think Sawstop's advantage is overblown and would go for a slider. But buy a good one. I tried adding Delta's slider to their Unisaw some years back. It was nothing but an exercise in frustration. Good enough for carpentry, but not for woodworking.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

I would think that the type of work you plan to do most should influence your choice of a table saw. That is, will you be working with big panels, or maybe doing a lot of miter sawing, etc. But if you're not sure then a saw that is very flexible would be good.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I have a Felder slider. It's a lot like the Hammer K3 but the
slider part is fancier. I think for a hobby user or small
time furniture pro, a Hammer would be a good choice.

Rojek and Robland also make or have made smaller sized
sliders… some of them not the format style, but you
can get them used for $1500 or so. Smaller Minimax
sliders can be found too.

If you have the space, the Robland E300 looks like a 
nice saw to me. There's a Powermatic badged version
too and they do show up on the used market.


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## History (Dec 22, 2012)

*I would like to know what is the best sliding table saw for a hobbiest. Although I want to know what the "best" is, I still want the most bang for the buck and nothing that is outrageous or unnecessary for my needs.* What your looking at seems really over the top to me for a hobbiest.


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## LSGss (Dec 16, 2012)

I plan on doing smaller things typically and furniture like beds and cabinets etc. I like the idea of a 48×48 slider. The reason I added a saw stop is become I am going to be a surgeon and would like to have a back up safety. That being said I do not plan on being any less careful plus it seems like sawstop makes generally a good saw. In regards to a slider I like being far away from the blade and being to the side to avoid kickback. In regards to finance I dont have much money this is actually a medical school graduation gift. At this point slider is at the top of my list I just want to know one is best.

Thank you for the help.


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## SamuraiSaw (Jan 8, 2013)

I would definitely choose the slider over the SawStop. I believe a slider will give you greater functionality. Everything I've read has the Hammer at the top of the list for entry level sliders with the greatest value. Keep us posted.


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## iminmyshop (Dec 9, 2012)

Boy that Hammer looks like a sweet saw. But I love my SawStop - it's accuracy, thoughtful design and safety. Now if SawStop added a sliding table…...


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## GlennsGrandson (Jan 29, 2012)

As a medical professional myself here is my opinion. Your fingers are you livelihood, especially as a surgeon…If you can't work think about all of the other people that can't work as well. I have seen this first hand.

I know you want a slider but you won't be able to afford anything without your fingers and I've heard good things about SawStops as far as being a good saw even without consideration of it's flesh saving capabilities.


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## BBrown626 (Jan 11, 2013)

I have a Mini-Max in the shop and the Bosch portable for installation. 
I am setup for cabinets and perform some woodworking. What will you do with your saw?
My saw does not have a 8-foot stroke and I wish I did have it, but I didn't have the room in my shop/garage. Otherwise I am very happy with the MiniMax. They are super versatile. You will see you can loose some of the jigs and techniques that many discuss on here, as a slider makes things like edge jointing or tapering super easy. 
I bought mine to make cabinets, so the scoring blade is fantastic with melamine or ply. Of course you can drop it out of the way for most woodworking. 
The one drawback I find with it is minor. The riving knife is too thick for your typical blades and good blades are not very cheap. I intend to find some metal and make a new knife for thinner blades. 
I have had it for seven years now and paid right about $7k for it new. In this market you might be able to find a great used machine.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Loren, so you are happy with the Felder? BTW why don't you show us the panel cutter you built?


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Sure, Jorge. I like the Felder, but understand I got it used
for about half list and part of my decision to buy was based
on the fact that at some point I can probably more or less
trade the Felder in for a used full-sized Altendorf if I get
into a much larger shop.

Video of my shop built Euro stylevertical panel saw here: 
http://lumberjocks.com/Loren/blog/32195


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## LSGss (Dec 16, 2012)

So what do people think Hammer K3 vs Minimax.

As I mentioned I will be building a lot of small things and some furniture, beds, possibly tables etc. I do not plan on purchasing greater that a 6' slider. That is why I like the size of the 48×48" Hammer. Or Maybe 31"x48" what do people think about those two size differences.

Thank you.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Thanks Loren, pretty cool set up you made.

LSGss, I think you have to decide how much you plan to use a dado blade. As I said I am not a Felder/Hammer fan from personal experience buying new. One of my wood suppliers has a Minimax slider, picture mexican guys getting paid $5 a day working with it, yet the machine works flawlessly after years of use, two of my other suppliers have different sliders, in all I have yet to see a Felder/Hammer, even though there is a branch right here in Mexico. IMO this is like choosing a restaurant, if you see one that is packed and right next to it one that is empty, which one would you choose?

Another consideration is customer service, MiniMax has a good rep in this area, from what I have read the Felder CS is spotty. Best of luck and lets know (and see) what you buy.


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## Howardh (Jul 22, 2012)

My only reason for calling CS with Felder was because of my own issues of not knowing how to do something. Their CS, for me, has been excellent. I called last week asking about needing a dado and after speaking with their tech for about 30 minutes I called my sales guy and ordered their dado head even though it was 50% more expensive than ordering a comparable Forrest. You have to understand that it's like buying Festool, once you get the quality and value, the price doesn't seem quite so bad anymore. For example, when I ordered the slider eccentric clamp, it was a beast! Very heavy, robust, an industrial strength clamp that would last a lifetime. I really didn't have an expectation but whatever it was, it was exceeded. The only thing I miss is not having a standard American style miter slot. That limits your accessories a bit but if there is a will, there is a way. I also realized I don't need a miter sled or many other accessories that the slider makes unnecessary. One small thing since I now have it, and I couldn't be without, is the ability to rotate the fence from a standard high position to a low position. It makes it much easier to rip very thin strips. If you like the well established and perfected cabinet saw, you may not like the slider but I have had both and would never go back.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Just to confuse the issue, while you're at it, Grizzly has several sliders, including a compact one. Can't cost much to check them out.


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## LSGss (Dec 16, 2012)

Are there any grizzly owners who would like to share their slider experience.

Thank you
Lenny


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## LSGss (Dec 16, 2012)

Hello again,

GlennsGrandson: I feel like with the sliding table saw I have even more safety because my hands don't ever need to be near the blade, and even though a Sawstop will stop if I touch the blade I think being further away from the blade would be better. No if only they could combine their powers.

HowardH: I am thinking about the 48×48 as well. Did you get a scoring blade or outrigger table. Those are included in the price of the larger 79×48 which is only 5500 vs 4400 for the 48×48. So I am wondering if its worth getting the biggest just for those accessories.

Thank you


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## jonwright (Feb 4, 2013)

It's your money, spend it the way it makes you happy, LGSss.

Quote: I should also mention my other option is to purchase one of the cheaper SS models and *upgrade when I am finished with orthopaedic surgery residency*.

Just go ahead and get the PCS with 52" fence with extension table. I'd think in your profession having a SS of any size should be a consideration.



Plenty o pissing matches over SS and "politics" - whatever. The SS feature sold me and I haven't lost a minute's sleep over it.

Do what you want.

Sliders are nice, and in your price range you should do well with whatever you decide.

Bad side is, you'll have no excuses for sloppy work. Although I suspect sloppy work isn't what you are about - is it?


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## jonwright (Feb 4, 2013)

BTW - I did a couple of dado's on my table saw and really didn't like. Router for me if at all possible.


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## LSGss (Dec 16, 2012)

Jon you seem sold on the ss and I appreciate your opinion. It's seems like you feel it is safer than the slider. Also would you rec 52" over the 36" if I were to get it.

Thank you 
Lenny


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## jonwright (Feb 4, 2013)

Yeah, the video sold it to me. My wife's Dad is missing the tip of his finger, her ex father in law is missing a finger - both from TS. So when I was considering a saw I showed her the SS video and she just said "It's your finger - but if it was me that's what I'd get."

I will also quickly say I have NOT used a slider, but man, they look like the take up a lot of real estate and what would it take to keep all the stuff aligned and maintained?

Nonetheless, my Dad has been interested in wood working, he's a CRNA. He told me after I got my saw that "I never bought a table saw and got into wood working seriously because I need my fingers to work."

Having SS won't prevent every accident (kickback!) and you really do have to wonder if you ever really need it to work how much of your finger will be gone before the blade retracts (read the details). I absolutely do treat using my SS as if it doesn't have any safety features, so I don't throw saftely out the window no more than you drive wrecklessly because your car has airbags and anti-lock brakes. If you have kids you still buckle them in, right? even though you may have a 5 star crash rated Benz, Volvo, etc…..

I do have the 52" fence. I got that because the extra room would be nice and that size allows you to rip a 48" sheet of ply down the middle. BUT….you'll need either some rather large outfeed and side tables, a helper, or both. And when I've done that I really don't get a straight edge - using a circular saw with a straight edge gives me better results with my current skill set anyway and doesn't give me the heebiede geebeedies.

I think in hindsight I'd be just fine with the 36" fence. The extension table isn't all that flat, and I assumed I could then easily mount a router under there. Not quite the deal I tought it was going to be. But it's nice having an extended work area, so I'm not really disappointed - just not what I imagined. and I have a rather large cross cut sled and I don't have to completly remove the heavy fence - just slide it down to the end of the table and I still have plenty of work room to hold my square, story stick, reference pieces etc. That's nice.

I'm really enjoying mine. But I also suspect if I had a new Unisaw, or Exacta, or Grizz I'd probably still enjoy using any of them.

But if I ever had an accident I knew I'd always kick myself if I DIDN'T get the SS. Even though I'm a white collar knowledge worker and my real professional impact would be keyboard typing - but still.

It's MY finger.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

I cant dispute the value of fingers left on hands where nerves are connected to brain, thus the popularity of "saw stop"

Both, with diligent maintenance retain their value more then the cheap crap people would leave you to believe , would be a good investment if only because they own one

Good tools are like gold, over time, they retain their value, be it fingers that remain on your hand, or more freedom to explore your imagination.

Wouldn't be nice if Altendorf, had access to "SawStop"s patented technology


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

In a country like Canada, where universal health care is a right ?, it seems odd that a government would not legislate it mandatory for all table saws sold for 50 dollars or 100 dollars or 1,000 dollars or 50,000 dollars so that some dumb ass cannot buy a table saw that has the potential to cut/amputate/mutilate one, or all ten fingers, and sends the taxpayer an invoice for 250,00 dollars to re-attach said fingers ?

that is the paradox of choice

why do cars have "air bags"


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## jonwright (Feb 4, 2013)

*Wouldn't be nice if Altendorf, had access to "SawStop"s patented technology*

I understand that the founder of Saw Stop attempted to license his technology and no one took him up on it.

Who cares why. Maybe Gass is a douchbag. Don't care. Rockefeller was a douche, so was Carnegie, Bill Gates, Jack Welch and almost any number of 'successful' folks. Don't forget the biggest douche of all - Trump.

but yeah, personally I'd really like to see a jointer with SS technology. To my thinking that's the next most dangerous power tool in the shop next to TS. Maybe I'm wrong.

SStop jointer would be an easy sell for me. Maybe I just have more $$ than sense. Won't be the first time I've been accused of that.


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## LSGss (Dec 16, 2012)

I think I have been convinced to go towards a SS. It is cheaper and requires less room. Also I can have peace of mind when making thin rips and other cuts that provide more danger. Maybe one day I can then buy a slider and keep my SS and take over the world. Or maybe by the time I am done with residency plus fellowship, 6 years from now the SS technology will be on some sliders.


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## LSGss (Dec 16, 2012)

Well so now i'm not sure again. I think I am going to get a larger present for graduation then I thought so I can definitely afford the hammer but still feeling like sawstop is the smart choice. I was thinking of purchasing a SS and create and sliding mechanism using a extrusion metal, in particular 80/20 is a aluminum extrusion company. Has anyone heard of anything like this. Anyone else have any convincing arguments. I am aware that I am beating a dead horse.

Thank you


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## jap (Oct 10, 2012)

These articles might help you.
http://flairwoodworks.com/2011/03/21/why-a-sliding-table-saw-with-scoring-blade/
http://flairwoodworks.com/2011/03/28/why-not-a-sawstop/


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## LSGss (Dec 16, 2012)

I was reading those earlier today. I think my primary problem is I need to actually see one in action and see how the more dangerous cuts are made.


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## LSGss (Dec 16, 2012)

Okay I cam up with one more crazy idea. Sliding table saw plus a small power feeder for the more dangerous cuts. Is this idea stupid.

Thank you


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Sure, a power feeder is a great idea. It will make your 
rips more accurate, too.

Really small parts should generally be cut on the band saw 
and hand planed or thickness sanded to dimension. If
you don't make models or musical instruments, these
sorts of cuts may seldom come up.


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## LSGss (Dec 16, 2012)

I feel like with that setup I have the same amount or actually greater safety than the sawstop. Another question I had was was size sliding table saw is equivalent to the SS. It seems like the 3xx41 may be a good size.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

If given I choice I would take a slider over a SS in a heart beat as the slider is so much faster, extremely accurate, eliminates the need to joint an edge on a jointer. Its powerful so ripping through heavy timbers is easy. They have a scoring blade which enables one to cut veneers etc without chips

I could on forever but suffice to say that I have yet to meet a soul who regretted getting a slider


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

Every soul I have met who bought a slider never regretted buying one and if they had a regret, it was that they didn't buy a bigger one and a better one as sliders, like most things, are not created equally.

We have to work within our means, and the footprint our tools sit upon, thus guided by limits we don't have control of.

Saw Stop retains its value, but sliders, pending who makes it, not always. This might help you make a choice you are comfortable with. Don't underestimate the value of a nice cabinet saw and truth be told……. the day will come when you want them both


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## oldworld124 (Mar 2, 2008)

The absolute best sliders are the Martins. I have two Felders and am very happy with them. I think it is possible to find a good used Felder or MinMax or Altendorf in the $4,000 range. Just need to keep a look out form them. It is on the low side. However, it depends on where you live.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

I've heard many good reviews about the "Martin" from those who swear by them but sadly I cannot say I have used one. I have however used the Holtzer, the Griggio, and many SCM's, none of which compare to the Altendorf.

As for the Felders. I would give them a passing "A+" grade and if there was thing that was detrimental to Felder tool, is the fact that the belts can only be bought through felder and they seem to need replacing too often and having said that, the Felders run 8 hours a day……everyday …….so not everyone needs to worry about that


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## LSGss (Dec 16, 2012)

Okay final comment. There is a Hammer K3 used on the market I was thinking of getting that and adding a power feeder for close rips, or still looking at the SS. Any last opinions.

Thank you


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

I would go with a slider if I ever upgrade from my 120v saw.

for all those that say the SS is safer than a slider you really should educate yourselves RE slider operation. your hands and fingers are pushing the sliding table - not the block of wood nearing the blade. FWIW - I think the SS is a fine machine, but I think a slider is simply a better one in all senses.


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## LSGss (Dec 16, 2012)

PurpLev, do you think this is true for the thin rips the place your hands near the blade.


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## Earlextech (Jan 13, 2011)

If you have the room and the $ get a slider with the 52"! You'll never need anything else.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

The SS works on conductivity ? There is nothing that says the SS will stop a kickback where a knife like chunk of wood comes at you, at a gazillion miles an hour and passes through your eye socket taking safety glass lens with it……..,if you think this doesn't happen then I suggest you visit the Emergency Doctor

I guess my point is this. We cant legislate the abolition of "stupid" and anyone who thinks a power feed is a green light for preventing accidents is a little naive as they also have inherent risks of near mortal injuries or worse but they all in some ways, reduce the cost to medicare

If experience is there, and or confidence , the only decision left comes down to budget. For me personally I find that the benefits of a slider far outweigh the safety of an SS but then again I also realize that having logged about 90,000 hours behind a tool, my opinion is somewhat biased, tainted by those who blame error on their tools.

PurpLev, albeit as a rule I would agree with you but the slider locks for a reason, and when that reason becomes a need, the basic operating procedures are the same


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

The reason I use a slider is because I learned how to work
safely on a table saw (I read a book when I got my first one. duh) 
and the slider gives me the ability to do more accurate work
more consistently and with less fuss.

I always use the guard when possible, btw. I enjoy having
my fingers.


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## LSGss (Dec 16, 2012)

Any recommendation for the HP of a power feeder. I think will get the slider and obviously practice safe technique but will also get a power feeder for peace of mind for those narrow rips, especially when I need to re-position my hands. Is the blade guard on a Hammer easy to use. I will say I am not the best at using my bosch blade guard. Thank you


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

Just another opinion

I wouldn't put a power feeder on a slider unless I had to hire an idiot who ripped lumber all day, …everyday ? I would rather buy a gang saw or a point to point beam saw, and let it do its magic.

The beauty of a slider and like Purplev already stated………..its magical in what it can do so if custom work floats your boat and you practice safe operating procedures and methodology I cannot understand why anyone would do that ?


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## LSGss (Dec 16, 2012)

Moron, can you ellaborate, is that because you think its not necessary or another reason. Thanks


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## oldworld124 (Mar 2, 2008)

LSGss, there are special devices for holding very thin pieces in the slider. I use the bandsaw for most thin ripping. It is safer and much quicker.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

a perfectly calibrated panel saw…………..skinny rips, ……you have ZERO worries mind you I did manage to mangle my baby finger, not because of the sliders inability to perform the task safely, but rather my reckless disregard for common sense


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## LSGss (Dec 16, 2012)

I should mention that the hammer k3 I am looking at is 31×31 because I found a good used deal. So I know I can use the sliding mechanism but if I have a rip longer than 31" then I would use the feeder because I would be then using the table saw as a cabinet style saw, correct?


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

you can do whatever you want but I would love to see a power feed attached to a slider, it just doesnt make sense and people can argue but I shake my head.

where would you mount it ? where it wasnt in the way ? they are heavy so its not like grabbing a battery operated drill, its not a shaper where they are mounted well behind the cutting head ? I assume its a not a production tool ?

I would make a feather board or a series of them but I just cant imagine giving a slider a learning disability by mounting a power feed unless it quickly mounted to the fence, was easy ?

Some people like power windows in their vehicle but I am old fashioned and I like the "crank" so if for some reason my truck is launched off a bridge and into a river……..I can roll the window down and get out


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Learn to use a feeder on a shaper. After that you'll have
insight into what it is good for and what it's not good
for. I said once before and John Ormsby corroborates that
thin rips are generally better done on the bandsaw.

A feeder is a cool thing to have because it holds the
work tight to the fence like a featherboard and the
feed speed is consistent too. For a few rips though
it may not be worth it to fuss with the setup. And
as mentioned above, a feeder can make trouble too.

With experience you learn that machines are just tools
and you make decisions about which machine to set up
based on how much work you need to put through it
and what the tolerances are. A few pieces of 1/4" 
x-section are not easy to rip well on a table saw, but
you can rip them a little oversize on a band saw with
a fence and hand plane them in just a few minutes.

Btw, I have a feeder on my shaper and I have never used
it on the table saw. This doesn't mean that I would
not do so if I thought the hassle of doing the setup
for a particular cut would make it worthwhile.

Felder makes a bracket that allows the feeder to
swing out of the way below the table surface.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

For a few kids born into the lap of luxury, their parents buy them fancy expensive cars that sooner or later are returned to the garage, where the door is shut so the neighbours cant see how the once perfect car could grow so many wrinkles in an hour ?

There are good reasons why it makes sense to learn a craft, where the first lesson is how to use a hand plane and how to keep that plane sharp ?

Its like getting degree in Family Medicine, and expecting to start doing brain surgery the next day.

In life, we all seek instant gratification and we are granted mere morsels of this luxury but with almost 100,000 hours on my belt……..instant gratification is an illusion by those who think too much and have way to much time on their hands rating equipment they havent even spent a thousand hours on and give an uneducated opinion of that which they know little about

the one thing life gives us, is knowledge, and its it cant be bought, it can only be earned


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## Straightbowed (Feb 9, 2012)

I been thinking of goin the sliding saw way I think it would be a great ides definetly go with the sliding if you have the room it would be well worth the price


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