# pricing woodworking job?



## harum (Nov 25, 2013)

Hello, I'm just a hobbyist with a small garage shop and still learning with every new project. Someone who had seen my finished projects has offered me to work on several small finish carpentry and woodworking projects. Semi-high end projects, like shelves in closets, a drawer chest, an isle etc. The owner is responsible for the design (like dimensions, style, hardware, etc) and selection of materials, which makes the job somewhat easier. Having never done this, my question is what should I ask for the job? Would the cost of materials times two be a reasonable charge? Or is it too much? Would appreciate any comment! Best, h.


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## CWWoodworking (Nov 28, 2017)

Materials x2 is extremely cheap. That is what mass produced stuff goes for that is made in minutes, not hours as it will probably take you.

I would start at materials x3 and see how it looks.

Don't let that "owners design" factor in. They may tell you what they want it to look like. You still have to figure out all the "bugs".


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## harum (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks for the response CWW! Yes, I expect hours of just drawing in SketchUp to figure out the joinery and exact cut list for the customer's design. Will see what the design and materials are.


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## CWWoodworking (Nov 28, 2017)

Ok I just looked at your projects. Your work is exceptional. If that is an example of what your customer is wanting, 4x materials. Nice work.


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## Ripper70 (Nov 30, 2015)

Based on the quality of the work in your projects page, your skills exceed that of the average hobbyist. Expecting somewhere in the neighborhood of $75/hr is not unreasonable.


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## Greg66 (May 4, 2019)

Very nice work on your projects page. After seeing your work I would say double the material cost is an insult to your ability. I would suggest ignoring material cost and base your labor on the hours it will take to complete the project at the rate you want. Then add at least 20% to cover the unexpected things that always come up. Find out what others in your area get for a shop rate if you can. I don't know what state your in but in my area everyone is swamped with work. Set your price and stick to it. Don't be embarrassed to demand what your worth.


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## WoodenDreams (Aug 23, 2018)

Some of the work you listed could be classified as home improvement. My son-in-law gets $75 hr + retail cost of materials for home improvements. Most of my prices are a set price, but it calculates close to this. 3 1/2 times materials for my work for larger items, with the smalls it's 3 1/2 times materials wholesale and 7 times materials retail. My son-in-law says I don't charge enough because of my quality and time put in. plus I do free delivery in a 50 mile radius, and I do give a 5% discount if prepaid.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

How good are you at *guestimating* project time?

Then it depends on how old you are. Time is the most precious resource you have… The older you are the less you have left and your hourly rate should grow exponentially with each year you age.

I am guessing that as you are talking costs, this is not a labour of love. Set yourself a practical hourly rate based on what I consider is worthy from the above rant… at the end of the day, if you undercharge you will rue it more than loosing an expensive quote, and all that fretting will erode the time you have left.

Just my 3c worth.


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## harum (Nov 25, 2013)

Thank you all guys for the valuable feedback on how to price your work and for the encouraging words about my little projects! More or less, I have an idea now of what to charge. x4 or $75/hr and 20% on top is not outrageously much to ask.

I went to see this rather expensive, new house still under construction yesterday and asked the owner's assistant why not try hiring an experienced finish carpenter or contacting a local workshop. The answer was she did but the quote was way too high. Will see what my quote is when the design is finalized.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

If your quote is lower than professionals, your quote is probably too low. Those guys have full shops full of industrial power tools and buy materials in bulk. In my experience, if people commission you over a pro, it's nearly always because they simply like your work. It's rarely because a hobbyist came in with a lower bid…


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## TungOil (Jan 16, 2017)

First ask yourself if you want to ruin a perfectly good hobby by trying to make money at it?

If the answer is still yes, then pricing can be summed up like this:

Price = what the market will bear

But, never less than:

Price = materials + labor + overhead + profit

Your work is really good. You should seek out local comps from galleries (they mark stuff up like crazy so take that into account), other local woodworkers, etc. to see what the going rate is in your market.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> First ask yourself if you want to ruin a perfectly good hobby by trying to make money at it?
> 
> If the answer is still yes, then pricing can be summed up like this:
> 
> ...


ditto thats why i rarely do work for other than family or close friends, most come to me thinking because im a hobbiest they will get a cheap price,so i just stay away from making it a business,not worth the headaches.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Didn't see it mentioned yet but especially when working on/in someone's house, make sure you have yourself (medically) and your work (liability) covered and well. I sell things very rarely and only for cash and never make children's toys, just too much that could go wrong, even though it might not be likely, it still has to be accounted for. You might want to do some sniffing around and try to get an idea of what might be a ballpark quote that the home owner received that was "too high" which in and of itself could be a warning sign but hopefully not.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

If you are inexperienced it is very difficult to estimate time. One approach is to figure out how much you want per day and then estimate how many days the job will take + (materials + 20%). Forget hours. If you get done 1/2 day early, bully for you. If you finish a day late, you've learned something. 



> The owner is responsible for the design (like dimensions, style, hardware, etc) and selection of materials, ...
> - harum


Unless that "owner" is your mom or dad, I would be cautious. If the dimensions are wrong and you have to buy extra material to rebuild it, are they willing to pay for your time and materials? They should, but that doesn't mean they will. The world is full of dirtbags looking to take advantage.


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## TungOil (Jan 16, 2017)

I almost forgot- letting the owner or GC measure for you is a mistake you only make once. Take your own measurements. Always.


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## harum (Nov 25, 2013)

Thank you for all the feedback-really helpful! The owner isn't a relative or friend, more of a someone who known another someone who had seen my projects.

Yes, of course, I'm measuring everything myself on the spot and then drawing models and plans for more detailed discussion with the owner. What I'm waiting for is the style and rough design, like the number of shelves and drawers, desired heights, depths and color schemes.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> If your quote is lower than professionals, your quote is probably too low. Those guys have full shops full of industrial power tools and buy materials in bulk. In my experience, if people commission you over a pro, it s nearly always because they simply like your work. It s rarely because a hobbyist came in with a lower bid…
> - HokieKen





> ..... rather expensive, new house still under construction…..
> ..... but the quote was way too high. Will see what my quote is when the design is finalized…..
> - harum


This is ringing alarm bells to me… an owner of an expensive house complaining about costs???? Then trying to get a cheaper quote from a non-professional/tradie (no offence meant)...

To me it seems obvious that if the decision is based on cost rather than quality and you come in cheaper, you will be *dramatically under quoting*.


> ditto thats why i rarely do work for other than family or close friends, most come to me thinking because im a hobbiest they will get a cheap price,so i just stay away from making it a business,not worth the headaches.
> - pottz


Based on the evidence it's *elementary my dear Watson*… my conclusions is… *Run away, run away!*


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## harum (Nov 25, 2013)

> This is ringing alarm bells to me…
> 
> - LittleBlackDuck


 I'm more intrigued rather than alarmed at this point. According to the owner's assistant, the guy they had hired for interior window trim and who had done a great job, has sharply raised his quotes for subsequent jobs.


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## LittleBlackDuck (Feb 26, 2016)

> .... has sharply raised his quotes for subsequent jobs.
> - harum


You may never know, but he may have raised his costs as he groseley underquoted initially.

Not all professionals are a rip-off sand may underquote much like us novices.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

Years ago when I was doing some part time projects for money I used two ways to estimate cost.

1. Estimate the time and double it. I was always amazed at how accurate this was when the project was completed!

2. Size up the client's ability to pay. If wealthy, up the price.

3. And last, only deal with wealthy clients!


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## johnstoneb (Jun 14, 2012)

The best way to estimate a job I was as follows.
Estimate what you think it will cost, double that then add a zero.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

> has sharply raised his quotes for subsequent jobs.
> - harum


It's called a PITA charge. It means I don't want to work for you anymore but I will if you are willing to pay through the nose.


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

> Thank you all guys for the valuable feedback on how to price your work and for the encouraging words about my little projects! More or less, I have an idea now of what to charge. x4 or $75/hr and 20% on top is not outrageously much to ask.
> 
> - harum


something i would suggest is add another 20% on top of your final quote. that will be some bargaining room.
but dont be too much lower that what the finished carpenter/woodshop would charge. it may not seem like ya have the overhead they do, but your overhead is pretty close to theirs. undercut yourself and the project(s) might not be too enjoyable to do.


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