# Ever Use a Froe



## bvak123 (Feb 4, 2014)

I have had several opportunities to get some quality lumber from downed trees and have a few now that I hate to pass up. I have looked into the chainsaw mill and although cheap, relatively speaking, it is still over my head. Has anyone made their own lumber using a froe? I know it would be labor intensive but would it be possible to split, say, red oak? If anyone has any experience with this please let me know.


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## hairy (Sep 23, 2008)

I do it, but for short pieces. http://lumberjocks.com/hairy/blog/34623


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## stevo_wis (Feb 10, 2010)

I use a froe for riving out chair parts after splitting with a wedge. Riving is controlled splitting. You want to get a froe with a rounded profile not a straight wedge. This gives a fulcrum point with tremendous power. I made an oak club that I rap on the froe to get it started. Always try to start in the middle of the piece and pull the froe to the fatter side. "froe to the fat" The split will want to go to the weaker side so as soon as you see that happening, turn the froe over and again pull towards the fat side. It really helps to have some kind of brake to hold the material off the ground. It can be a fence or a crotch in a tree or something else you come up with. If the piece is thick, you can also put in on the ground put your foot on the corner and pull. This gives tremendous leverage. Dave Sawyer is a famous chairmaker who has rived backs for settees sometimes 12 feet long. He also tries to rive within 1//8 of an inch of final size. I find that tough to do, but Dave just says take it slow and watch the split change.

Curtis Buchanan has a series of windsor chairmaking videos on youtube. One is on using the froe. Good luck. I hope this helps.


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## bvak123 (Feb 4, 2014)

Thanks Stevo. I will look up more about riving. Ultimately I want to make 8/4 boards as long as I can manage. The largest tree is about 18" wide. Does anyone know where to get a froe large enought for a task like this?


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

You would need a two man saw, one man down in a pit to do what you're talking about. Even then you would have no control as it's not something you do every day. Better start eating your Wheaties. Find someone with a bandsaw mill if you actually want to have useable lumber.


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

I have a large fro I used to make shingles. It has been sitting on a shelf for more than 20 years now. You might want to do that with it instead of making boards. To make boards, use a saw to cut about 3-4" in the middle of the tree. Then use wedges to split the tree through its natural grain line. Then split the halves in half. From there, you should get some nice pieces of board. Off course only the first 6-8' will produce good shingle/lumber (if the tree is straight).


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Fros are common in the cedar shake and shingle industry. They make quick work of, say, twenty-four inch cedar blocks.

The mallets for fros are several pound chunks of aluminum, about six inches in diameter, with a handle through a hole in the center.

Cedar spits well, but it'd be a task taking on a log with a fro. However, with wedges to hold it open, it may be possible. That said, the fros I've used are for splitting shorter blocks. Spitting logs would put a lot of pressure on the tempered blade. I used to have a couple fros that had been broken off, but were handy for working small pieces of cedar. If I were making spit rails, as for fences, I'd probably use wedges and a mall.

Using a fro on other than cedar or redwood would be a hit and miss thing, I suspect. For fruit or nut wood, you'd probably be inclined to abandon the project quickly. Especially if you are hitting knots and changes in grain direction. Other woods may lend themselves better to the process. In the end, the wood grain is kind of the boss.


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## hydro (Aug 9, 2013)

I hear that a Froe makes quick work of riving boards out of elm logs.


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## jdh122 (Sep 8, 2010)

For a great demonstration on what Stevo is referring to, check out this video of Peter Galbert: 



It is certainly do-able, although you'll also need two steel wedges and a glut (wooden wedge) to get the log down from huge to manageable.
Red oak is a relatively easy to split (I haven't tried with elm, but unlike hydro, I hear that it's extremely difficult to split because the grain is interlocked). The splitting itself won't be that much work, but since you split radially you end up with wedge-shaped pieces which you'll then have to work down with a scrubplane or hewing hatchet. This is a lot of work. People working in the seventeenth-century style work this way, but with white instead of read oak (slightly easier to split). You can check out Peter Follansbee's blog. You will notice that the boards he works with are fairly short, although as long as the log is straight-grained you should be able to do it for longer pieces.
My advice would be that, instead of trying to make it into boards, you try your hand at green wood chair making - it's a pile of fun.


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## BJODay (Jan 29, 2013)

Here is a link to a youtube video. It is a film about a Native American, (Canadian), wood worker. Very interesting and informative. He splits planks from a tree using chisels and wedges.

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/50175

BJ


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

Watch these videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/curtisbuchanan52/videos?flow=grid&sort=da&view=0


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## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

I would suggest that if you try something like that and have no experience with an adze that you wear shin guards, steel toed boots, and have the phone with 911 on speed dial right there - one slip and it'll get ugly. I stand by what I said earlier - if you really want 'quality lumber' with a minimum of waste that you find a band saw mill somewhere. An awful lot of wood will end up as kindling if you go the hand route. If it's just the experience you want then by all means go for it. You can also investigate building your own band saw mill from an engine, car wheels and tires etc. A lot of folks do it.


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## bvak123 (Feb 4, 2014)

Good info all. Can anyone make an experienced suggestion on where I might look for a froe that is up to this kind of task? I see several by doing a search but some are described as a shingle froe and others are not. I would guess I am mot looking for a shingle froe…


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## Randy_ATX (Sep 18, 2011)

Not to discourage you but I just don't see using a froe on a log longer than 24" or so. I've had luck searching craigslist for local bandsaw mills (even portable ones) that are very reasonable. I had 10 logs about 8' long slabbed up for $100 total. 2hrs with my help and we were done.


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## MalcolmLaurel (Dec 15, 2013)

I have a tiny (6") froe that I made myself for specialized uses, but I plan to buy this 8 inch one from Lie-Neilsen. (They also have a 12" one.)


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## bvak123 (Feb 4, 2014)

Seems like my best course of action would be to split the logs into quarters with wedges then rive boards from there with a froe. I will et yall know if I have any success.


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## BobAnderton (Oct 5, 2010)

Lee Valley sells a good sized froe for $40. http://www.leevalley.com/US/garden/page.aspx?p=67231&cat=2,44728,45794,67231

That said, a chainsaw mill is the way to go if you want to mess around and make a little hardwood lumber from a few logs a year or so. Just screw a 2×10 to the log and start making slabs. That $200 alaskan mill will make a thousand more times lumber than that $40 froe will. Just my 2 cents.


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

I can give you one other suggestion. When I was building my log home, at times I needed a 6" thick boards and before I got my chainsaw mill, I used a saw and an axe to make the boards. All you have to do is to put the log on a level area, then use a plumb line to mark the thickness you want out of the log at both ends. Then run a chalk line along the log and mark you saw line. Make your cuts along these lines every 4 inch or so and knock them out with an axe; a broad ax works best to get a smooth surface. Here is a picture of what I am talking about:
http://www.earthartandfoods.com/loghome1.html


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

For the kind of work you are talking about, better get one of these. 15" long, 1/4" thick and 3" wide. Bought this long time ago in Alaska.


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## bvak123 (Feb 4, 2014)

My problem with a chainsaw mill is that I don't have one that is up to task. I would have to buy the chainsaw, new ripping chain, the saw mill guide and possibly a different bar. I am trying to manage this on the cheap. Time I have… money I don't!

You all have been very helpfull. This is my first post here and I can see this community is very active. Thanks all!


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Have you thought about a frame saw with a ripping blade? Slow, but cheaper than power saws.


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## bvak123 (Feb 4, 2014)

Topamax, I am open to sugestions. Would it be eaiser/cheaper than a froe? Any one man rip sawing info would be appreciated too.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

I don't know, but I have thought about it. Check this out http://hyperkitten.com/woodworking/frame_saw.php3

It will be a lot of work sawing, you will be in tip top shape when done, you should get a better finish than a froe ;-)


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

A froe won't get you decent 8/4 lumber you're looking for from anything but the most ridiculously straight grained trees and then only those that split well like oak. The longer and wider boards you're hoping to make the straighter the grain will need to be. But yeah you can have a froe made in whatever length if you find a local blacksmith. Froes aren't all that common because it's a bit of a limited application tool and a bit of an uncommon practice. As in the videos posted above you can split planks without one too. The northwest native Amarican one was impressive. You can do that almost for free and splitting is faster than sawing.

The frame saw will work but wow that will be a workout. You can make one as big as you want to saw boards as wide as you want more or less. It needs to be twice as long as the board is wide for the sawdust to clear all the saw teeth. Google Roubo frame saw and you'll find several links about making one.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

bvak123, You might find these interesting.

http://pfollansbee.wordpress.com/category/techniques/

http://pfollansbee.wordpress.com/category/joined-stool/


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