# End Grain to End Grain Jointery - What is the best Glue to Use



## SCengineer

I'm building a cradle and will be joining the vertical slats to the lower platform of the cradle. Most of the joinery at this location will be end grain (bottom of vertical slat) to long grain (platform), but due to the design of the platform, some of the vertical slats will be joined end grain (slat) to end grain (platform). I will be using M/T joinery for reinforcement of the joint, but wanted to use the best glue possible to add strength to the end grain to end grain joints. The design involves bent wood lamination, so I'm using Weldbond plastic resign glue on the laminations.

Here is my question: Should I use the Weldbond glue at the end grain to end grain joinery, too. I have also had good success with Titebond III on end grain. I guess I could use some type of epoxy, but I have never used epoxy before, so I'm not sure if this will be a suitable adhesive for end grain to end grain joinery.

When I use Titebond on end grain, I apply the glue, let it set for a minute or so to allow the end grain to absorb the glue, then add a little more and then make the joint, and this seems to work fine.

Any help would sure be appreciated LJ's


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## JAAune

Epoxy would probably be the strongest but it needs to be a slow-set type like West System or System Three sell. Five minute epoxies aren't good enough.

In order to achieve high strength on wood joints with epoxy it's important to allow the adhesive to soak into the wood until it stops being absorbed. Only when the joint is saturated and no longer shows any sign of absorbing more epoxy is it time to clamp it together. On end grain this can easily take three coats of epoxy applied in a 30-60 minute time frame. The exact time needed depends upon the open time of the product used.

People do the same with pva glues as you've already mentioned but if you really need maximum strength the epoxy will perform better in this situation.


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## SCengineer

Thanks JAAune, I appreciate your response. I would assume there are no issues with finishing when using one of the epoxy system which you mentioned.


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## AandCstyle

Would you be able to drill holes in the ends of both pieces and glue in a dowel?


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## SCengineer

Art,
Yes, that is a viable option. I was planning on using dowels or true M/T, but wanted to use a good adhesive at the joint, too.


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## JAAune

There is some potential for finishing problems since the epoxy does penetrate wood fibers somewhat. If the epoxy is allowed to soak into exposed wood faces it tends to stain the wood as if an oil finish were applied. Topcoating over the epoxy works fine though with the finishes I use (lacquer, oil and shellac). Also, I find that clear oil finishes tend to blend into discoloration caused by epoxy.

That being said, the above problem can be avoided by judicious use of silicone-free wax around the joint before doing the glue up. I use Waxilit and follow the procedure that was recently published in a Fine Woodworking article. The Waxilit keeps the epoxy from bonding to the wood around the joint and helps prevent stains.


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## dominikmatus

I one time used PVAc glue (polyvinylacetate) and it was stronger than wood. I tried to broke it and it cracked 1 mm from the joint.


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## Loren

I am not a big fan of foaming poly glue, but in this
application I think it would be a good choice because
it will fill the inevitable gaps you'll have in the
fit of the tenons. Cutting so many mortise and
tenon joints for slats some are bound to be a bit
sloppy if you use machine set ups to cut the 
joints. You can make the tenons most consistent
by referencing both cheek cuts off the same 
face of the part. If you flip the slat to cut the
second cheek, small variations in part thickness
will throw off the tenon thickness.

I would use dowels if the parts are thick enough - 
the fit of dowels is more reliable when doing 
a lot of joints and of course you can just use
white glue which gives you more time to get 
the thing together.

Tenons are very craftsmanlike though and strong
so if you want to put the time in or feel like
using dowels is a cheat, go with the tenons.


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## Underdog

Best glue to use on endgrain joints?

A mortise and tenon.

Just sayin….


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## SCengineer

Thanks LJs for the great information….just another reason why this is such as grand site.


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## pintodeluxe

I use TB II whenever I can. As long as it is reinforced with biscuits or M&T you should be fine.


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## MonteCristo

Time to redesign. End grain to end grain and glue don't go together.


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