# $5,000....for a stationary box.



## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

While perusing Etsy, a shop for handmade items, I came across =tags&includes[]=titlefor]this little listing a "Correspondence Box", a fairly nice, handmade wood stationary box….for *$5,000.*

And I thought asking $395 for a mission clock was bad (ones I make and sell).


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## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

Wow, I have got to get into the box making.


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## firecaster (Jan 15, 2009)

Maybe it's full of bonds. Otherwise, I can't see that price.


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## kolwdwrkr (Jul 27, 2008)

I guess the builder didn't really want to sell it. I don't want to sell a lot of things, but for 5k take it. LOL. I never asked for anything over 800 for my nicest box with marquetry and the whole nine yards. After advertising it to death and the price getting down to 450, it still never sold. If he sells this box I definitely want his secret. For now I'll offer him 50 bucks, otherwise I'll make one….....possibly better. LOL


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

i wonder if it is a miss print….even if it was meant to be 500…that is kinda high for that project…yea if he were to get it..i would be amazed…...besides…i can get keith to make me one for 450…right…...lol…...


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Hey guys you don't think I can get 5k ? why not? LOL Of course I'm kidding ,it's not mine.


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## IanW (May 12, 2008)

This is the guy selling it: http://www.kelloggfurniture.com/

And yes, he will probably get the asking price. Lots of details in there that take a substantial amount of time.

Ian.


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## WIwoodworker (Apr 10, 2008)

Pricing is always an interesting issue. The biggest issue for people to overcome when selling is the mistake of selling out of your own pocket. I know what I'd be willing to spend for a box (if I didn't make it) and so any box over that amount I'll probably never see the value in. But just because I wouldn't spend that much doesn't mean someone else won't.

Buyers can and do make emotional decisions to purchase every day. We tend to see price in terms of materials/labor/markup. Your customer may see it in terms of the wood/design/features/details. Other customers may only make a decision on how pretty something is. Don't believe me? Why do paintings have wildly different values? Can't just be time and materials…

Would you spend $200k for a car? Not me but people do all the time. A milion for a house? Not me ever, but people do every day.

Even my customers buy for different reasons and many pay big premiums for things you would scoff at. You just have to know your customer. And even more important, you always need to be looking for the customers who are willing to pay a premium for what you do. Do you think Nakashima and Maloof saw the world a little differently?

Just remember that every day someone's buying. If price was the only thing that made a difference they would all buy at walmart and we could just go fishing.


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

this box isn't worth 5000 bucks…i don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out…i checked this post…he also wants 100 buck for shipping…...that another rip….i just mailed a custom jewelry box that was weight wise probably double his box…and it was 40 bucks…and that included insurance…..bit it comes to this…its his asking price and there me be someone who will pay that…..is it really worth that…...ive read the post and all that hes done…nothing more then what i and many other woodworkers do with our boxes…..so it doesn't matter…..if he gets it…someone spent a lot of money for a box they could have had a number of skilled wood workers here at this site make him for much less.


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

without pointing fingers , a previous post metioned the details and he would prob get the asking price…i can see from the projects hes posted over the last 500 some days quilify him to know of this projects worth…..i dont think so…but hey..its just a box and this mess doesnt really matter…..if this guy gets 5000 bucks…..then that says somewhere is this messed up economy is someone who can affort to spend a lot of money on something not worth it..that is why were in this mess…inflated prices…..paying to high a price for something not worth it…....a house that is really worth 120,000 selling for double or triple that…...


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## DaleM (Feb 18, 2009)

I went to his website too. He does really nice work overall, but looking at this 3000.00 box, he should clean up the pencil marks and on his commissioning page, he shouldn't show finish already applied over a bunch of pencil marks, plus the end grain of the board on the commissioning page is all "faceted" in some odd shape, apparently rounded over very quickly. Once again, looks good, more power to him if he can get that price, but he is outright lying to his customers about the time involved because he doesn't take any time on details, more like measure it, cut it, glue it, finish it. I would just hate for people to get turned away from buying handmade because they think this is the price they have to pay for something that is not top quality.


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## Radish (Apr 11, 2007)

Holy smokes! I have to quit hanging my head about asking $300.
As to the scribed line on the doves - some guys think it's a way to reference the fact that it emphasizes the handcut nature of their work, so I can't fault that as just mere laziness. But Mr. Five-Grand - good luck with that…


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

i came across another custom piece on esty….it was a nice dresser, but right above the top drawer on the left and right were two plugs…weather they were for screws i don't know…but they were END GRAIN PLUGS…very easy to see and no mistaken about it…he was asking 3000.00 for this piece which prob wasn't out of the range to much…but i wrote to him and mentioned that if he was going to make custom pieces and at 3000 bucks..he shouldn't be using end grain plugs…its the small details that show the professionalism of a piece..and to me makes a statement of the overall quaility…..he wrote me back and told me i wasn't seeing what i thought i was…...im sorry but i had to laugh at that….ive been doing this long enough to know details like that….at first i didn't respond…it just wasn't worth the time…but being me…..i had to write him back and tell him..i know what I'm looking at….those are end grain plugs…and i encouraged him to take council from others who do know what there doing…..believe me i know I'm no maloof…but i do know enough…maybe he will take notice..maybe not…but it all goes back to wanting the woodworking trade to be represented by honest folks…there are levels of quaility…and the small details show at what level your dealing with…to me…a piece selling for 3000.00 should not have end grain plugs…..thats just the way i am….so it comes down to places like e bay and esty give place for craftsman to sell there wares…i just hope that those who sell items at a lower level don't impact the wood workers who work at a higher level…they deserve a higher dollar amount for higher quaility…...these fly by night - appearing out of the wood work in the middle of the night guys might mare those who have put years in to show it does make a diffrence…there is a difference in Joe blows work and hard working wood workers who have earned the right to ask for higher prices…


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Wow! I guess I really *CAN* quit my day job!


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

All this talk has gotten me excited I'm going to list my $ 28,000 saw horses with gold paint and sequins as soon as I get it built but I will offer a discount for a pair only $ 55,000. Please tell your rich crazy friends.
How about you guys what's on your list. We can start our own version of Hammacher Schlemmer.


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## rob2 (Nov 27, 2007)

Asking and getting are very different. I would sure like to know how many he has sold


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## Betsy (Sep 25, 2007)

Just my two cents - but someone will pay the price for the box. We have a hoity toity arts festival every year in Fort Worth and people pay those prices and more. They may think a little longer on it right now in this economy, but they'll pay it.

As for the lines on the dovetails-- I'm with Doug - I don't like them - but some folks leave the scribe marks as a sign that the box is hand made.

I also don't see how the box could have taken 400 hours - but who knows - maybe it did. Long and short - if he can get the price good for him.


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## Jimi_C (Jul 17, 2009)

400 hours? 10 weeks of full time hours doing nothing but this one box? 2.5 months? BS. Maybe it took him 10 weeks, but I seriously doubt he was doing nothing else but working on this box. I've seen what talented wood workers can do here, and frankly I'm much more impressed by their work than this guys box, and I know it doesn't take them 400 hours of solid work to do these. Also, if you're that talented to be charging that exorbitant price, it shouldn't take you nearly that long to build something like that.


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## IanW (May 12, 2008)

It's ok Grizzman, you can point at me  I can handle it 

For what it is worth, Clark Kellog (who is not me, in case you thought that was the case) has had his furniture in Fine Woodworking's design series book. It was for this particular piece: http://kelloggfurniture.com/wp/gallery/10-small-boxes-huddled-together-for-warmth/

I encourage you guys to poke around his site and see what type of stuff he makes, and how much time actually goes into it. If you are interested, you can see a wide range of similar type of craftsmen from some of the various woodworking schools. I believe this particular gentleman went to the Center for Furniture Craftsmanship.

Just look at any of the work by some of the Alumni at College of the Redwoods, or Inside Passage, or any of the other fine craft schools across the world

http://www.crfinefurniture.com/
http://www.insidepassage.ca/alumni.htm

Most of these schools take woodworking to a whole new level. It isn't about 'finishing the project'. It is about perfecting it. And there are people out there who will pay for this. They want the unique piece that these types of craftsmen make. It is similar to the art world. The typical household has a print of a nice picture. A wealthy art connoisseur has the original. Except for most studio craftsmen, they will not make this same piece again as they typically aren't interested in reproducing it. Instead, other woodworkers mimic the piece and sell them for less

Though, I doubt many of us would say that Sam Maloof or James Krenov were ever overcharging for their pieces 

ian


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## cabinetmaster (Aug 28, 2008)

This guy has got to be nuts. Look at some of my cabinets I built. Lot more detail than he has in that box and some of them I don't have more than 40 or 50 hours in them.


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## closetguy (Sep 29, 2007)

I noticed that he has been selling on Etsy for over a year and has never sold anything. It's a nice box, but his price points are a little high for the venue.


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## mtnwild (Sep 28, 2008)

I don't know about this fellow, however if his track record supports him, he has to charge progressive pricing to support his past sales. His name alone might be the main sale. Sounds like he can afford to spend 400 hours on one box.


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## kolwdwrkr (Jul 27, 2008)

That last bamboo box took me less then 12 hours. If this box was solid ebony it still wouldn't be worth 5k, or 500 for that matter. I think there should be a challenge. Make a box that is similar, any material because wood is wood for the most part, and see how long it takes. In my opinion he is lying to his clients as well as steeling from them. It's not right no matter how you look at it. I can guarentee you that I can make that box, with hand cut dovetails, a tighter fit between the drawers, etc in less then 40 hours. It is crazy to say that because you went to School X or had a role in Fine woodworking magazine that for some magical reason your crappy box is worth far more then 85% of the world would charge to make the exact same box. This isn't art. It's a box. Dennis Zongkers most recent box is art in every aspect of the word. I bet he isn't asking 5k for it either. If this is art I'm Michaelangelo and people owe me millions
I'm surprised his little trays aren't worth 1200 bucks. LOL


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## jimp (Feb 7, 2008)

This post and all the comments brings up an interesting question. How does everyone calculate the amount of time it takes to complete a project? Do you only count the time that you are in your shop building the project, or do you count all the time it takes to complete the whole project, like the following:

- Design time
- Time it takes to drive to and from your wood supplier
- Time to pick out your lumber
- Time to apply your finish
- Wait time in between coats of finish

It seems to me, that if you were a pro, you would calculate your "build" time by summing up all the time you spent designing and working a project (maybe not including the wait time between coats of finish). I think that calculating your build time, this way, would help you get a better estimate on how long it takes to complete a project and help you calculate a bid for a job.

Lastly, I'm not trying to question this box maker's hours or his asking price. If he sells it for that price, more power to him. I'm just curious how everyone calculates their "build time".

Thanks.


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## russv (Sep 21, 2009)

This reminds me of a car salesman friend of mine. I walked up to him one day and askif there were any $500.00 cars on the lot. He said, "yep, but we want $1,000.00 a piece for them.

russv


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## TheCaver (Nov 21, 2007)

5k may be a bit steep, but this box has details for days. It's interesting that the ones complaining about this have either no projects posted or none with intricate detail, especially on this scale.

A perfect handcut dovetail is not an easy thing to come by, especially given the number of them in this box. And those super fine half laps…..

I suggest making a copy and posting it here before ********************ting on this guys asking price or craftsmanship.

And I'm feeling really cheeky so I'll go ahead and say that I think that in order to post to this site you should have to maintain a project status….no potshotting allowed on work…..put up or shut up….

JC


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## russv (Sep 21, 2009)

you don't have to stick your hand in the fire to know it is hot. I think I can see a deal when it stares me in the face (and vice versa). I have sold boxes and fine furniture for years in multiple galleries. I have received some very large commisions. I don't think that makes me more qualified (or less) to have an opinion. I have never played quarterback in the NFL, but I think they are overpaid. And nobody should tell someone else not to have an opinion OR shut up.

russv


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## kolwdwrkr (Jul 27, 2008)

I'll take the dare Caver. Do I get the full 400 hours or should I have it done in 40 for you? Please allow me time to gather up some material for this little baby project and we will see what I can come up with. And yes I will be happy to blog it for all to see. At the end I will tell you if it's worth 5k or if it's worth 50 bucks, which is what I'd pay for this box, fully knowing what it takes to make things like this. 
I've got to finish The Topo challenge first, then it'll be a joy to do this project. Thanks for the nudge.


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## longgone (May 5, 2009)

You can ask any price for any project..whether it be $5 or $5,000,000. It is only good when someone can afford the asking price and decides to scratch out a check…


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## IanW (May 12, 2008)

quoting kolwdwrkr:

"I'll take the dare Caver. Do I get the full 400 hours or should I have it done in 40 for you? Please allow me time to gather up some material for this little baby project and we will see what I can come up with. And yes I will be happy to blog it for all to see. At the end I will tell you if it's worth 5k or if it's worth 50 bucks, which is what I'd pay for this box, fully knowing what it takes to make things like this.
I've got to finish The Topo challenge first, then it'll be a joy to do this project. Thanks for the nudge."

I would rather see you build your own box with your own design using the features of the wood you select and incorporating them into the design.

Replicating someone else's design is substantially different than coming up with your own.

Ian


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I'll be the first one to admit that the level of craftsmanship in this box far exceeds my abilities. Having said that, I can't imagine that a woodworker of this level spent 400 hours on this box. 40? Maybe.

I guess at some point the line between art and craftsmanship becomes blurred. When a painter or sculptor develops a certain reputation, collectors eagerly shell out thousands for something that may have only taken the artist a few hours to complete. Does this piece qualift as art? That is a question which can only be answered by a potential buyer. Personally, I don't see enough *creativity* in this box for me to call it art. I have seen numerous projects posted here on LJ which I do consider works of art. Many of those are not as technically well-built as this piece, but the builder has created a unique vision and brought that vision to life. For me, that is art.

If this guy can ask for $5k and get it, more power to him. But in my opinion it doesn't make the leap to "artwork" status, even though it is a fine example of fantastic craftsmanship. The only part that bothers me about the asking price is my suspicion that the builder is misrepresenting the amount of time put into the project.


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## IanW (May 12, 2008)

TheCaver: It looks like you have worked on projects of this calibre before. In particular, I really like the box inspired from Adrian F's FWW piece: http://lumberjocks.com/projects/16942 How long did this box take you out of curiosity?

For those that want to see other boxes with a similar level of details, check out Adrian's boxes: http://www.adrianferrazzutti.com/box_home_page.html

Specifically, note the cost of them, as well as the fact that there are no drawers, and no internals at all.

If you scroll down on this page below the cabinet, you will see another unique design: http://www.insidepassage.ca/nicknelson.htm

You can see the blog for construction of this box here:

http://nelsonwoodcraft.blogspot.com/2008/11/mock-up-begins.html
http://nelsonwoodcraft.blogspot.com/2008/11/mill-lumber-check.html
http://nelsonwoodcraft.blogspot.com/2008/11/on-curve.html
http://nelsonwoodcraft.blogspot.com/2008/11/phew.html
http://nelsonwoodcraft.blogspot.com/2008/11/clamp-and-hold.html
http://nelsonwoodcraft.blogspot.com/2008/12/arbutus-box-complete.html

5 weeks of full time work. No internals or drawers.

ian


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## kolwdwrkr (Jul 27, 2008)

Ian, I have always come up with my own designs for my boxes. I don't think any one of them is worth more then 800 bucks, and there is alot of work in a few of them.


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

Yes I have to say there is not all those hours in this box unless the guy is dreaming .Also not in my opinion a great box.Actually it looks a little plain to me although well made aesthetically not overwhelming.Some people have a highly inflated idea of their own worth sorry this is not so beautiful I have seen others here just as good or better imho.Alistair


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## matt1970 (Mar 28, 2007)

capitalism is beautiful…the people who buy items like this dont pay taxes and make more then all of us combined…so they have a little extra capital for this work…

I am sure the work is amazing…and my wood work will never be there though because I am too busy working to death at my day job to pay my taxes and mortgage, insurance…and food…

he clearly has a different clientele.


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

Hey Napaman I have lot's of crap err I mean rustic furniture I could sell could you introduce me to those fine spenders.I could ofload lots of really rustic furniture made in 20 mintes but valuable you uinderstand.Alistair


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## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

Looks like am Offi original.


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## DocK16 (Mar 18, 2007)

It's not the asking price (hell you could ask for a miliion) it's the selling price that counts.


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## ClarkKellogg (Sep 29, 2009)

Dear Lumberjocks,

I stand by my work and the price I ask for it. I am not a liar, nor am I delusional. More importantly, my clients know that I am neither of those things. The Correspondence Box did, in fact, require eight weeks of work, working fifty hours a week. I commend those of you that say they could build a better box in a fraction of that time; you must have picked up a few shortcuts that I haven't learned yet. Or perhaps your standards are just lower.

I urge any and all of you to give me a call sometime (my number is on my website), or stop by the shop if you are in the Houston area. I would be more than happy to explain the work that goes into my pieces.

In the meantime, happy woodworking.

Sincerely,
Clark Kellogg
Woodworker


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## jsheaney (Jun 25, 2007)

Nice post, Clark. Kudos.


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## kolwdwrkr (Jul 27, 2008)

Clark, I admire you for stepping in and defending yourself. It's amazing how word travels around the woodworking community. Had that been my box I guarentee I wouldn't have heard of this post. Apparently you are known enough to get the messege. I'm assuming that your name plays a significant role in your price. Being somewhat well known some how makes your product so much better then others. Sort of like Nike shoes vs Voit, although I have to say that I've owned both and voit is every bit as good. I could also assume that you work mainly with your hands, as those are the most valuable assets us woodworkers have. Although it's obviously proven that equipment can and does just as good of a job in half the time. 
I have to say that this post somewhat has inspired me to stop and think about my methods. Do I want to spend an eternity on a project and make a ton of money (if it sells, and after I write some sort of book I suppose), or do I want to focus on the artistic side and make the piece a one of a kind piece of myself. My vision. Cutting a square is one thing, then sanding it down to 8,000 grit by hand, rubbing it like it's some sort of pleasure is defineately different. One can assume finessing the wood to that nature makes it that much more valuable in a sense, although I will say I can blatantly see scraper marks in Krenov pieces. I suppose it's the "artists perspective" that truly makes the piece, and in ones own mind the price. 
I truly hope you get the asking price, and that a certain owner is more then happy. As they should be, and they keep this little gem in a glass case with security lazers. The preciousness of the piece must be maintained for centuries. 
I know I will aspire to create my work to this stature, or at least to this price. Not quite sure I have 400 hours available for one piece, so I can assume my work will never be at this level. Congrats on your success. It appears to be much deserved.


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## huff (May 28, 2009)

Pashley, Thanks for the post, very interesting. Clark, Thanks for standing up for your work and time spent in producing such a fine box…...and Keith, I've seen your post and your work and I feel you're more then qualified to respond to such a challenge….You do great work!. I understand I'm just a novice woodworker compared to such professionals as the Caver or IanW and not in the position to put up or shut up, but that's never stopped me before. Clark, I'm glad your clients know you and understand what it takes for you to build such a project in time and talent. I'm just curious though, if a client comes to you and commisons you to build this project, are you able to figure your time before hand and give them a price up front. Most woodworkers that sell their work has to pretty well know how long it will take to do each phase of a particular project….understanding there will always be a few unknowns in a truly one of a kind custom piece, but still need to be able to estimate a cost of both materials and labor. I guess I'm like a lot of the woodworkers on this site, just wondering if you had any idea that's how many hours you would have in this project and if so, can you commission such a project or do you just build it and list it on Etsy and hope to get paid for your hours. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but just trying to learn. (like most of the others here on LJ's). I love doing one of a kind pieces, but guess I've got a lot to learn.


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

Well, this little post I started certainly took off quite a bit!

Some things I've seen in this post: Someone tipped off Mr. Kellogg; The post he made here is his first one. I still find it difficult to believe that it took 400 hours of work - not saying he is a liar; I just find it hard to believe it could take that long.

How much is it worth? Whatever he gets for it. If he can get $5000 for it, good for him. I wonder how much the price plays into the *perceived *value of the piece? In other words, if this piece is being offered at $5000, it must be amazing. The same piece being offered at $250? Not so much.

I don't think it's an especially handsome box - sorry Mr Kellogg, but it is a subjective evaluation.


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## SEE (Sep 23, 2009)

In my opinion, the value of an item or product is determined by the price that someone is willing to pay for it, as Pashley correctly stated. So, if this gentleman can sell this box for 5 grand, that's what it's worth to the buyer, regardless of what we or anyone else may think that it's worth.

Mr Kellog is selling more than just a wooden box. To get big money you have to think big! Of course, that doesn't mean that we're all gonna get 5G for a box.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Personally I believe if the man can get $1 mill. for it, that is ok. that's what a free market is all about. Some people are very clever at marketing their products. We know it's not worth $5,000 and maybe the rich guy who buys it knows that too, but now he will be able to brag to his friends and acquaintances that he paid $5,000 for it and enjoy the prestige he figures that brings him. Regular folks like myself buy things that they think are good value for the money, while rich people buy many things for much different reasons. The prices Mr. Kellog is asking only makes your products look like much better values to people wanting a reasonable price.


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## toolnut (Nov 5, 2009)

Clark, why are you selling it so cheap then? I mean, your time has to be worth more than $12.50/hr right?


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## dylder (Sep 30, 2009)

Toolnut is correct, the math just doesn't add up. 5000 for 400 hours of labor, then there are the wood costs, shop costs, taxes, insurance and the box is in a gallery that may take months to sell. Seems to me a job at Walmart is a more profitable choice.

That said, the box is a very nice piece and better than my work.

dw


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

I'm surprised this post has raised so many hackles. We should be happy that a fellow woodworker can ask and hopefully get so much for his work. Andy Warhol painted campbell soup cans and made a fortune. No one asked him how long it took to paint them. The gallery world is a different kind of market place. The customers perceive the items for sale as having an intrinsic value not measured in materials or work hours.


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## dylder (Sep 30, 2009)

The gallery in Houston that has this piece is a 50/50 split on price. 400 hours for $2500 =$6.25 an hour. That doesn't take into consideration expenses. No one asked Mr. Kellogg how long it took to build it, he listed it in his advertisement for the piece. Looking at Kellogg's web site, the work is outstanding and he shouldn't list hours on the pieces to try and justify the price. I cannot believe he is working so cheap.

I like the piece and hope he gets his price.


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## IanW (May 12, 2008)

I noticed that Mr Kellog had a chair (or was it a set, I forget now) in the latest issue of FWW. http://kelloggfurniture.com/wp/current/vidar-chairs-in-fw/


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## Dez (Mar 28, 2007)

I am rather surprised at some of the vitriolic responses to this mans work and the prices he asks. Seems to me that there may be a bit of jealousy there. All I can say is that if he can get that kind of price then it increases the price all of us can ask for similar quality work and products! That is a very good thing as hand crafted work has been under priced and under valued for many years now.
Just my 2 bits and humble opinion!


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## degoose (Mar 20, 2009)

My shop charges out at $60 per hour so that works out at $24000 plus material say $12.00 and then add the 30% profit margin ... $31.215.60. Not bad for a cutting board. Glad you raise the bar. Note I am only working on 30% markup to retail not the 100% charged by a gallery…..$48,024.00 is now the gallery price..
That is if I told you it takes 400 hours to make a cutting board..
In reality… 1 hour tops… at $12.50 per hour with material of $12.00.. profit of 30%.... $31.85… at that price I would be inundated with orders. I feel terrible charging $75 -$100 and sometimes a little higher.. and I am still inundated with orders at that price… maybe 48 grand and the orders will slow down…
Just having a little fun… Power to you, Mr Kellogg.


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## fineamerican (Nov 14, 2009)

The thing about boxes vs cabinets is you cant charge a hourly rate on a box. Think about it. You can cut out some cabinets, slap them together mill the face frame and call it almost finished well before you can get the tails and pins to work out right in a box. If you charge a hourly rate making boxes two things will happen. Youll have to build a new shop to store the surplus, loved and admired but unsold work, and you will starve. Boxes should be sold yes, but look at it as a way to hone your skills. Fine box work doesnt lie, and isnt forgiving. The most I got for a jewelry box was $800. If you go about with the mindset I just mentioned(skill building) and are serious about taking your woodworking to new levels, then make a fine box, market it, get your material cost back, profit. Just leave out the hours!


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## degoose (Mar 20, 2009)

Take 3 years and build a mansion and charge 500,000 fine …..Take a year to build a cabinet and charge 50,000 ok… take 2 months to build a very small box and charge 5,000… let me know when you actually sell it….?


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## SPMaximus (Mar 2, 2009)

Very nice box, incredibly overpriced in my opinion though, 400 hours seems a bit extreme
But yeah, its not nearly as bad as some stuff i saw in an art gallery last year

Here you go:
1100 euros for this… cube
The other one that you cant see entirely in the pic cost 1500








Atleast the box has some functionality =/


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## SNSpencer (Nov 16, 2009)

I too came across this box when perusing Etsy to see what others are pricing their products at. Worst case scenerio, it make the picing of my inventory on Etsy much more attractive to a majority of the buyers out there. Not too many that can just drop 5k easily, but $15-90…. maybe. I can only hope. This "hobby" is expensive and I can only hope to offset some of the costs with a few sales here and there.


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## lotus (Jan 23, 2009)

The pricing of our work is truly an interesting discussion. At least we have some rational metrics to go by, including "name appeal". 
Try pricing photographic prints! Easily reproducible, fairly low material cost, but can you include rarity of the moment, remote location, emotional impact, special equipment used, etc. It boggles the mind. One photographer I know says he raises the price on a print when he gets tired of making it.
The art I find really offending is what I term "found art", a chunk of driftwood glued to a wood base, auto paint overspray chips sanded and buffed to show various color layers, tumbled rocks.
As a hobbyist I make only what I want, and rarely more than one. Can't imagine enough money to get me to make an 8 chair dining set.


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## SEE (Sep 23, 2009)

Was one of Sam Maloof's rocking chairs worth $35,000 during his lifetime? To some people, absolutely! I've read that there was a 3-4 year backlog of orders. What about Mr. Krenov's work? How much did people pay for one of his cabinets?

If one does fine work, as Mr. Kellog does, one shouldn't be afraid to ask a lot of money for it. As stated earlier, a thing is worth whatever someone perceives its value to be and is willing to pay for that particular thing.

As long as people are buying something, whatever it may be, there's no such thing as being over priced, in my opinion. That especially applies to objects of art or perceived art. That's the essence of the free market.


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

Interesting just how much response this OP has generated (I made the OP).

I was just surprised how much the artist wanted for a box like that. i don't find it all that attractive or unique, as say a Maloof rocking chair, *SEE.*

It's really interesting, psychologically, how the value of something is determined, both by the person producing the product (or service) and the intended customer. I don't know what area of psychology or business (economics?) would study this phenomena, but I'd sure like to look into it.

Hey, I hope the guy gets what he wants for the box, and that the customer thinks it's worth that price. Most of us have to make a living; we don't just have money given to us.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Pashley, I seem to recall you building a full-sized aircraft carrier a while back. That should have made you a pretty penny, right?


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## ehegwer (Nov 18, 2009)

Clark,

I believe your box is worth $5,000. Hands down.

In a post above, someone compared woodworking to photography, and as a full time 'tog, I can understand the value of fine work. I challenge anyone to make a box equivalent to yours. Let them put their money where their mouth is.

BTW, I'm in Austin, and may take you up on your offer to view your shop and hang out.


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

*CharlieM1958*, yes, yes, the aircraft carrier. I'm sending it over to Somalia to chase pirates. I'll show them what a little QSWO can do!


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## SEE (Sep 23, 2009)

Pashley, I agree. The Psychology involved in art, both from the artist's and the buyer's perspective is very interesting.

If you're not familiar with his work, I encourage you to research WILLIAM EDMONDSON, sometime, a self taught stone carver from Nashville. A few interesting links are below:

http://www.tnstate.edu/library/digital/EDMONDS.HTM

http://poetryandpoetsinrags.blogspot.com/2009/04/great-regulars-william-edmondson.html

http://www.tfaoi.com/aa/1aa/1aa219.htm

His work is simple, some may think of it as primitive. Nevertheless, his pieces now command very high prices. Fortunately, Mr. Edmondson enjoyed the recognition of his art during his lifetime. If I remember correctly he was in his late 50s when he began his career as stone carver. Very interesting man and a very interesting story.

I also agree that most of us do have to work for a living and don't just have money given to us. People who buy expensive art obviously have money to burn and they often spend it on art, that they like and want. But, that's another matter altogether. In the context of this discussion, just because I can't afford to pay 5 grand for Mr Kellog's box doesn't mean that it isn't worth that price, or possibly even more, to someone who can afford it and perceives it to be worth that amount of money.

I've really enjoyed this discussion….......


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## NathanAllen (Oct 16, 2009)

I'm just here to disagree with Clark on the quality of the Life Aquatic. The box is fine, the lid doesn't fit well with the flow but other than that good work on the body.

I did spend some time looking at his blog, and I like his furniture, some of it is very innovative.


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## mynoblebear (Nov 22, 2009)

what sells is a name and if this person has a name that the mases recognize then at some point in time he will start to sell them for what he wants and believe it or not the if the popularity is there the quality my not mater to the desperate buyers. I am still trying to figure out how that works. I cant seam to give my work away.


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## pickles (Jan 20, 2009)

Wow you guys are tough! Clark Kellogg makes beautiful studio furniture and in the right gallery will most likely get that price. I've sold pieces in galleries and its amazing what people will pay! Keep up the good work Clark! I sure wish I could get one of my pieces in a Fine Woodworking publication.


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## bent (May 9, 2008)

i just noticed this item is no longer on etsy.

does anyone know if it sold(how much?), or if the listing just got pulled?


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## rhett (May 11, 2008)

People complain about others prices when they can't get the same amount for theirs.


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## pashley (Mar 22, 2008)

No one's complaining; we are just trying to understand this phenomenon. Did it even sell at that price?


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## NathanAllen (Oct 16, 2009)

Etsy says 0 sales on Clarkatron's account on Etsy.

Regardless if you think the price was warrented, frankly I don't, but take a look at his blog. Mr. Kellogg has produced some fine pieces, including reproductions and unique designs.


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## Chilly (Jan 8, 2010)

Don't like the price you don' t have to pay it. It's not like his work is unfairly driving up the price of wooden boxes. Some of you behave like we may have a Wooden Box Bubble that will make the Real Estate Bubble look like Hubba Bubba. =/ *gasp*

People can argue about the quality and if its worth this or that but if he's got a market (and don't judge it by what sells on Etsy.) then kudos to Clark.

Would you pay 25000-30000 for this ? A couch with no legs? A "matress" with flowers on it?

Lots of folks would and it's built by a manufacturer not a craftsmen. (This thing is *totally* awesome but that's beside the point.) All markets are different. Some folks want the status, some want quality (or both) some look at price and are just ready to brag about what a great deal they got, verus bragging about how much they paid.

TheCaver: Checked out your stuff. Nice work. I do dig that parquet.


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## rusticandy (Sep 26, 2008)

Very very few items of that size ever sell at that price point, and ETSY is definitely NOT the place to sell it. I wait 2+ years for benches and rockers to sell in local galleries.


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## russv (Sep 21, 2009)

an etsy store is like any other outlet, it needs to be marketed. i see some making thousands of dollars in sales a month on etsy. as to selling big items, andy says it takes 2+ years to sell in galleries. who's to say you won't sell it if you market on etsy for a longer period of time? the advantage of etsy like stores is you can put the same piece at several locations and once it sells, pull it from the other sights. it seems to me, it can work better than a gallery where your piece sets for 2+ years, you get a smaller piece of the sale and it sits in one location only.

just a thought,
russv


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