# lights flicker while starting my tablesaw, Maybe a fix?



## getneds (Mar 18, 2009)

I started enough trouble in the past few weeks so now I have a question related to my TS. I know this happens to a lot of people, As a matter a fact it's mostly in home shops. When powering on my TS, my flouresent lights flicker for about 2-3 seconds, almost like a "Brown out". I was thinking, is it possible to put an inline capacitor. I know a capasitor stores energy and "should" give the initial punch to get that thing turning. It's really not a problem, as much as it is an annoyance.

This was the situation when I was learning, and I've seen it at multiple home based shops. I don't think there is any hazards involving the flicker. To me it's the ballast losing it's current while the TS draws enough to get going, once spinning everything is fine.

Am I just being too anal? I'm sure this is very common and I should forget about it but I was wondering if anyone tried the capacitor thing.

I have a 50's model craftsman TS. The one with an aluminium face, and cast iron guts and table. I love it. Also it runs on 110V. My guess is 220V don't have this problem. It may also be a factor that i have only 100 Amp service into the house.


----------



## UncleHank (Jan 13, 2010)

There are a lot of factors that could be causing it. It could be the 100A service, and if it is, then lights in the house should be affected by the problem also. It's also possible that the wire carrying power to your shop is undersized. Do you have a dedicated breaker box in the garage?

I can tell you that 220 isn't the answer. My dad and I just wired up my shop for my 220 saw and the lights still dim just a touch when I kick it on.

Also, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Note: this is based on my limited electrical experience, so take what I said with a grain of slat.


----------



## degoose (Mar 20, 2009)

The problem is the capacitor on the motor draw all the amperage at start up…Or something like this…more power to get it started drains from the light circuit…


----------



## getneds (Mar 18, 2009)

My shop is in my basement. I just finally started gathering tools of my own now. I always had access to a shop just now I am doing my own. I currently own most of the tools needed, except a few( which I'm working on). I guess my question is regarding a PITA issue not so much a problem…. So what you're saying is a capacitor won't solve the problem, as it draws the amperage from the circut. I thought a capacitor was more like a battery that stores power so there is not an excess of draw from the light circut.

My power is direct from the electircal box, less than 20 ft away from my saw. Has anybody overcome this problem, well actually not a problem but an inconveinience.


----------



## JohnGray (Oct 6, 2007)

A WORD TO THE WISE - Consult a professional electrican !


----------



## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

I don't think a capacitor will helpr. You probably don't want to hear this but, a dedicated circuit for your larger electric tools is the answer.
If you have room in the main, have an electrical contractor install a 20 amp breaker and run a line from it to new outlets in the shop for your machines. As long as only one machine is operating at a time, It'll be OK. 
I've been told that, continuing the way you are, your ballasts will fail sooner.


----------



## spaids (Apr 15, 2008)

Well I think that people should be able to post what ever projects they want to post!

CHA HA kidding.

I don't know if this is an issue for you but my shop is a garage with no windows. One day somehow I tripped a breaker that killed the lights but did NOT kill the saw. I was standing at a running table saw half way though a cut in the dark. OH MY GOSH SCARY! I stopped all work in the shop until I got the power issue worked out and also got a safety light that comes on right away in the event of a power outage. I know I am not helping with your question but I saw the words "lights flicker" and felt I had to give a heads up about the unrealized dangerous situation that I was working in. Don't let that happen to you.

PS. I installed two dedicated breakers in my garage for running my machines. It seems to have fixed everything BUT what if you are working and your wife has a curling iron plugged in and then turns on the vacuum cleaner and LIGHTS OUT! I'm just saying…. EMERGENCY LIGHTING!!!!


----------



## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

I think part of the problem is how your house is wired. 100 amp service tells me that your house is an older construction when electrical appliances, computers, etc. were at a minimum. I had a house that had 90 amp service and was upgraded to 150 amp with splitting off several circuits to distribute the power load more evenly. I would get some prices from electricians to rework your electrical service. It could be a DIY project if you know what you are doing.
Let us know the outcome.


----------



## SnowyRiver (Nov 14, 2008)

Is your table saw on the same circuit that the lights are on? If so, you might want to put it on its own circuit. Switching to 220 V would help too since it would draw less current and would then have to be on its own circuit. I have floresent lights in my shop but they are on their own circuit and I dont get any flickering. 
100 amp service should be enough as long as you dont have a lot of large current drawing items on in the house at the same time.


----------



## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

you'll need to put the saw on it's own dedicated circuit, whether you want to go 220, or 110 this will make little difference (the only reason to go with 220 for these smaller saws - and I have one myself) is if you are bound to use older cables that cannot support higher amperage, in which case having 220 with low amp but high voltage is the answer.

regardless - you'll need to fix your electrical circuits to separate your saw from the rest of the lights/outlets. as mentioned - consult an electrician would be the safest bet.


----------



## getneds (Mar 18, 2009)

Thanks guys, I'll be looking into a dedicated circut. It seems to be the best answer, and Probrably the safest route. That shouldn't be too bad in price, and is simple enough as I have plenty of space in the breaker.

You're right about the house being older…lol built in 1906. Big old farmhouse with actual log framing with mortise and tenon, for the floor joists. I'll take some pictures of the old school carpenters wokmanship. I can finally post a shop, and actually start posting more projects.

Emergency lights…... awesome idea. I'll be looking into that too.

Maybe I'll start with pens…..lol J/K. no really I want to get a lathe and try my hand at that.


----------



## awsimons (Apr 26, 2009)

A capacitor would be appropriate if your problem was with a DC circuit, like the power system in your car. This is the case where the capacitor would enhance the car battery. In your house, where everything is AC, a capacitor won't do you any good. Just FYI.
Alan


----------



## getneds (Mar 18, 2009)

thanks alan. I better understand now. DC vs. AC. Looks like it's going to be a few dedicated circuts around the shop


----------



## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

Yea I have a dedicated 220VAC breaker just for my saws, joiner and planner and just switch plugs when I use the one I need I have an S/O cord on a strain relief that hangs from the ceiling.

PS, Your motors more then likely have start capacitors already and are used to aid in starting the motor until it reaches a speed that is safe so that the current draw will not destroy the motors windings, basically


----------



## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

But … *Alan* ...

A simple series of bridge rectifiers, and he'd ….

Just kidding.

Dedicated circuits, and you, too, will see the light 

I've got three 20A 110V dedicated circuits for the major machinery. Then, the lighting is on ITS own circuit.


----------



## technicallymark (Apr 2, 2010)

My air compressor has a similar problem. When it starts, it draws a good amount of amps and sucks electricity away from everything else on that circuit. I'm not an electrician, but I slept at a holiday inn last night so… most plugs and circuits are 15 amps, which is fine for the vacuum cleaner and a light. But most washing machine outlets are 20 amps because the motor takes a little bit more. On my house, built in the 80s, the 20 amp circuit has the clothes washer, dish washer, refrigerator, and garbage disposal. What I end up doing is unplugging the washing machine and using that outlet since it has the extra juice to get things started and I won't be running all those things at once. If you can find the amperage rating for the saw's motor, that should tell you what amperage rating you need for the tool(circuit must have higher amperage than tool). You may be able just to run another 20 or even 30 amp 110 line, depending on what's available on your box, what code is for your area, and what the electrician says. I recommend three quotes from 3 different electricians. I work with construction electricians who must run wiring for the equipment I install and service, and there seems to be a huge variation in knowledge and skill. Good luck!


----------



## hvroberts (May 31, 2009)

Fixing is done simply by running your saw on it's own circuit and it should with 12 Gauge copper with ground and a 20 amp fuse/breaker. Please contact an electrician for a cost, better yet, find 2 - 3. Ask for referance.


----------



## Branum (Sep 23, 2009)

Dedicated circuits!! I only have 60 amps running to my shop and I am running a 3phase table saw so I need to run a VFD that draws 28.5 amps. All my lights are on one circuit and I have 3 seperate circuits to run my other power tools. I have never had an electrical drain problem. You can always back wire a new box in your shop to get more circuits. Be sure to talk to experts before making any changes!!!


----------



## Nomad62 (Apr 20, 2010)

Prolly too late to help, but what the heck; my two cents worth… H.I.D. and flourescent lighting fixtures require a minimum voltage to work; a big load, such as a table saws start-up draw, will pull the voltage too low for the ballasts in either lamp to work if the circuitry is weak. A dedicated, high amp circuit is always best for the high amp draw tools; same as lighting, for the reason mentioned above. Same answer as the rest I guess. A 220 circuit draws half the amperage, but half from each side of your power box. Make sure to keep your 220 volt circuits separate from any 110 useage, meaning don't tap in a lamp to one side of a circuit meant for 220 useage.


----------



## mnguy (Feb 4, 2009)

I'll just second the loads of good advice above - put the tablesaw and any other induction motor tools on a separate 20 amp circuit, separate from the lights, and you'll be fine. I have 100 amp service in my house, and I ran (2) 20 amp circuits for outlets and (1) 15 amp circuit for the lights. I put in a subpanel for these, mostly because I didn't have anymore space in the main panel; plus, it keeps the breakers for these circuits right in the basement shop. I ran the 20 amp circuits around the whole shop, alternating outlets between circuits. I just keep the dust collector and the table saw plugged into different circuits, and I haven't tripped a breaker yet. And, the lights can't go out if I do.


----------



## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

There you have it: Your overhead plasma devices are being deprived of their fuel/energy source. Separate circuit vote number three thousand….. When you set a separate circuit, try to keep a balancing act going in your panel so that you don't have a very heavy load on one side, as compared to the other side. This doesn't mean you have to be a fanatic about balance, but moderate attention might be appropriate.


----------



## Davynurse (Feb 20, 2013)

Im a little late to the game here I know,,,,But I just fired up my new delta contractor saw last night and its doing the same thing. Im gonna have to check the breaker box and see if I have room for a bigger circuit. Thanks guys I think this is gonna be the cure!


----------



## Kennyl (Apr 20, 2013)

hopefully you have room in panel for seperate feed for your saw,do not piggyback on another crt. in the panel,if in doubt call electrician.


----------



## RonInOhio (Jul 23, 2010)

Didn't read all the replies. But wouldn't it be simpler to just run a dedicated line for the lights ? Instead of all the power tools ? Maybe I misintrepeted what was being suggested in a few posts.

I'll go back to my cave now.


----------



## shawnmasterson (Jan 24, 2013)

I have 60 amp service. I have running on 220 a 3hp TS, 3hp DC, 5hp compressor, 5hp 3pzh planer, and a 10hp rotary phase converter. I have the same problem. The problem is that when a motor starts up the amp draw is off the charts for a few seconds, then normal once it is running. My 3hp DC draws 16 amps running, but during the few seconds of start up it draws around 73 amps. This is common and worse when running on 110. My step dad has a 7.5hp IR compressor and 200 amp service. When it comes on the whole house does it.


----------

