# Shellac as a base coat



## matt123 (Jun 21, 2013)

Hello,

I recently tried using shellac as a basecoat under an arm r seal top coat, nothing else involved. And it looks real nice. I felt like I needed to post this because alot of people talk about how you don't need shellac as a basecoat if you are just going to use a oil top coat. its true, you don't "need" it, but it does look better IMO. You always hear about the other practical uses for shellac but I wanted to mention how it can look as just a basecaot.

It adds a shimmer to the wood like the way light bounces off silk, and it high-lights the grain better than plain oil based top coats. It also allows you to get two coats on in one day plus a coat of tougher finish on after, all in one day, thus building a finish much faster.

I had three cherry shelves, one I did with minwax poly, one with zar oil modified waterborne poly, and one with shellac and arm r seal. The shellac/arm r seal was the nicest by far.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Good to know, thanks for posting.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

Some film finishing manufacturers actually tell you not to use waxed or dewaxed shellac under their products because of compatibility issues. Lot of that might have something to do with type of shellac.

If understand need dewaxed shellac, and what a wash or sealer coat of shellac all about might not have problems. Think Zinseer's seal coat does not contain wax.

Basically, a wash or sealer coat nothing more than thinned film finish. Other than seal wood pores helps build film finish faster. You can thin any film finish with proper solvent to accomplish that goal!

When using lacquer almost always use thinned lacquer as a seal coat first.


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## matt123 (Jun 21, 2013)

I was using zinsser dewaxed shellac. I know alot of it is personal preference, but I felt the dewaxed shellac added to the look more so than just an oil urethane or poly finish. I will be using the shellac and arm r seal to make a wood slab kitchen table for appliances and stuff, I will post those pictures when I am done. Actually that Marc "wood whisper" dude has a youtube video of using shellac under arm r seal, the link is below but the finishing is at the end of the clip.


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## Finisherman (May 3, 2013)

Good post. Dewaxed shellac makes an excellent sealer coat under virtually any film finish, even poly and waterborne finishes. The shellac adds a chatoyancy that is hard to beat. In fact, a coat of dewaxed shellac will add a great deal of depth to an otherwise pale looking waterborne finish. I'm glad that your project turned out so well.


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## ClintSearl (Dec 8, 2011)

It's unnecessary. Any difference you note is simply because the shellac will add a pale amber tone to whatever you put on top of it.


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## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

"It's unnecessary. Any difference you note is simply because the shellac will add a pale amber tone to whatever you put on top of it."

If an ingredient in a finishing process changes the final look in a matter that is desired, wouldn't that make it necessary? ;^)


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## matt123 (Jun 21, 2013)

I understand how it is not "needed" or "unnecessary", but I do see a difference and I just wanted to point out that de-waxed shellac as a base coat "can" add a nicer look to a finish. Someone used the word chatoyancy, I looked it up and this is exactly what I was talking about.

Also, as a hobbyist, 15 bucks on a de-waxed shellac is not breaking the bank.


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Ive become very fond of shellac as a finish. Ive started mixing my own flakes with DNA to vary the cut. There's a bit of a learning curve with it all though. Im still learnin buit ill get it.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

All shellac's impart color to wood, which is fine by me. Dewaxed shellac makes a good spit, 1 lb cut, seal or wash coat 2 lbs cut and regular top coat 3 lbs cut. May be mixed up on cuts or shellac to denatured alcohol and terms but experienced finishers understand.

A 1 lbs spit coat might be okay to stop two different colored woods from bleeding into each other or as a seal coat. Yet some will swear by 2 lbs cut for that purpose and sealing wood surface. Still others throw out any proportion and just mix their shellac for whatever purpose they have.

If buy Zinsser's Bulls Eye shellac 3 lbs cut, will have to thin for sealing coat. If buy Zinsser's Bulls Eye Seal coat 2lbs cut no thinning required.

I feel there is a type and shade of shellac for every piece of wood known to mankind. If want to impart a particular hue choose the appropriate shellac for the job. As long as not going to top coat it with another film finish waxed shellac okay. Just watch number of coats too many might get you lot of streaking. You can usually use thinned dewaxed shellac under waxed shellac and as a top coat to avoid streaks. Better to practice on scrap first to achieve effect looking for. Refinishers use a lot of waxed shellac restoring old furniture.

Discovered by accident can thin almost any film finish to serve as a sealer coat so stopped fooling with shellac for that purpose. Only film finish that do not thing before use is waterborne poly.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

chrisstef: Whose DNA are you mixing the shellac flakes with?


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

FYI, I read recently about adding up 10% Isopropyl Alcohol as your shellac thinner to give you a longer open time to let the shellac flow. I did this on my most recent project coffee table. I sprayed with a 40lb HVLP gun in 80-90F weather and it worked out very well, in my semi-novice shellacing experience.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

You don't have enough time to hear about my raves for dewaxed shellac. I can, and will, comment about the value of Seal Coat for a primary coating. Others might poo poo my affinity for this product, but I have never had a finish failure from using shellac. Just be sure to use the dewaxed Seal Coat. Waxed stuff will make for some probshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=xErUsgT7f4M.
It will be well worth your time to watch this vidhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=xErUsgT7f4M:

Bill


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## matt123 (Jun 21, 2013)

Perhaps another good question if anyone has time is- What types of topcoats do you prefer with dewaxed shellac and which types of wood benefit (at least visually) from a shellac base coat most?


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## ClintSearl (Dec 8, 2011)

There is no benefit to shellac as a base coat. All film forming finishes can and should be applied directly to raw wood.


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

My 99% of the time finishing schedule is a coat of sealcoat followed by crystalac super premium. Because the crystalac is a water borne, it makes a big difference putting the shellac down first. Curly maple looks good without the shellac and only crystalac, but really pops with sealcoat first.

Another advantage, crystalac costs about twice the sealcoat. I'd rather not be spraying expensive finish as my sealer coat.

So there's two benefits the sealcoat has for me.


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## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

*"My 99% of the time finishing schedule is a coat of sealcoat followed by crystalac super premium. Because the crystalac is a water borne, it makes a big difference putting the shellac down first. "*

That's been my experience as well, with other WB products.

Shellac as a sanding sealer under water base raises far less grain than the water based finish applied directly to raw wood, and it also adds depth and chatoyance.

I've done extensive personal testing using Seal Coat and the proprietary sanding sealers sold for use with ML Campbell and General Finishes water based finishes, and Seal Coat wins hands-down. Side by side, the differences are obvious.


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## dominikmatus (Mar 4, 2013)

Yes, shellac is very good finish. I'm using linseed oil for penetring and after polymerisation I'm finishing with shellac. But It's good to know, unwaxed shellax has more density, but can cracking after some time.


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## matt123 (Jun 21, 2013)

So it sounds like a clear finish on top of dewaxed shellac has potential visual benefits. I am going to ty it next under a waterborne finish.

I am also interested if shellac over boiled linseed oil or stain can still add that chatoyance or any other visual benefits before you add a tougher top coat.


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

No advantage over BLO, but over stain, the shellac is a barrier coat so whatever clear you're using will have no issues with the stain.


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## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

I use shellac between BLO and water base, as a barrier. If the BLO is not completely dry it can mess up water base, or cause a weird look, if oil continues to leach out of pores.

When I don't want to wait forever for a BLO rub to dry, I use a mixture of BLO/SealCoat/Turpentine, in equal parts. Keep shaking as you apply it. DO NOT substitute paint thinner or mineral spirits for real pine turpentine. In this mixture, there are chemical differences that matter.

Wipe it on, wait about 10 minutes, and wipe it dry. Wipe dry again in an hour or so.

I've wiped on this mix in the morning and sprayed water base in the afternoon.


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

What happens to the BLO if it's not completely dry before you put the shellac then wb down? Does it eventually dry?

<<<< Doesn't work with BLO because of the drying times.


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## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

*What happens to the BLO if it's not completely dry before you put the shellac then wb down? Does it eventually dry?*

Depending on degree, it can cause strange blotches or dots. Without the shellac, it's worse, and also includes fisheye and possible adhesion issues.

This isn't limited to BLO, it can also happen with oil based stains on open pored woods. With oil and solvent finishes, the leaching can cause similar problems, but these are less sensitive than water base.


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## shampeon (Jun 3, 2012)

Shellac over BLO will decrease the drying time of the oil-the alcohol in the shellac provides the oxygen needed to polymerize the oil-but I wouldn't spray anything over the shellac until it's cured.


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## BLarge (Aug 29, 2011)

I use Shellac to seal off water based dye on my projects, the tyically they are built on with water-based poly. you can use a think coat, very think, just don't want to apply the WB film finish over and water based dye…

I also use shellac on the interior drawers of many of my projects. It gives a nice color to secondary woods like poplar- a few coats, sand, then past waxes and they are beautiful and soft to the touch.

I also seal projects that will be covered with Milk Paint- I have found that natural oils and other contimemnts in wood will seep into the milk paint and leave stains- shellac that project, dont even bother sanding and slap that milk paint right on there… dewaxed, of course- you could also washcoat with another top coat, but shallac is easy, dries super quick and easy to get off if you mess up- i do, alot!

Here's a tip I never thought of… when you have a ru or sag, instead of thinning it or sanding it, slice if off with a razor blade.. its seems so intuitive, but I have never thought of that….


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

If I notice a run, I wipe the area and respray. I'd likely gouge something with a razor lol…


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## LakeLover (Feb 2, 2013)

Something I have been doing, huge time saver.

If I am gluing solid wood to nice ply. I put a thin coat of shellac on the face edges, this way any squeeze out of the glue comes off easy. Buy the time you have finished sanding the top, the shellac is gone and you get a crisp glue line.

Any finish can go over.


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