# Powermatic 45 inquiry



## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

Ok, this might be a trick question, but was wondering if anyone has experience with one of these lathes and an opinion on speed control… This is what I'm looking at:










It's a completely restored 1987 gap bed variable speed PM45 in perfect condition. While I love my little Delta, the lowest speed it can turn at is around 900 rpm (actual range is 930-3200 rpm), which gets really wild when trying to turn bowls or anything that is fairly out of balance before roughing it down. This Powermatic is plug-n-play with nothing needing to be done to it, comes with a set of 13 turning tools in a nice wooden case, a couple of centers, original manual, wiring schematics, additional printed documentation and - it has been upgraded to a single phase 1hp motor, and the original 3-phase motor is included. What I'm wondering is - would the single phase motor and variable speed control be sufficient (speed range is 330 to 2100 rpm), or would it be worthwhile (and worth the extra money) to put the three phase motor back in and use a VFD to get a wider speed range?

Cheers,
Brad


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## TheWoodRaccoon (Nov 9, 2015)

Do you really need anything slower than 330 rip-em's? Unless you're turning really big bowls or items that are really unbalanced, i would think that's slow enough, especially if you've gotten by until now at 900 rpm…I don't have any experience with a lathe though, so i very well could be wrong. Just my intuition talking….

How many HP is the included 3 phase? If you can get a VFD cheap enough, you might as well upgrade it.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

No experience with PM lathes or 3 phase. But that is a friggin' gorgeous machine!

Unless you're going to be chasing threads, I think the low end of the speed range it has with the single phase motor should be sufficient. But, I don't work with any really large stuff so maybe it needs to be slower for really big rough blanks?

I like to spin mine up around 3k rpm for sanding/polishing/buffing small parts but 2100 might be fine on that end as well.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

If have the money buy it. Whether you change motors another question only you can answer. Would go with current motor until you see a need to change. That will give you time to scout out components to modify from reeves drive to electronic variable speed.

Reeves drives get a bad rap due to Asian imports with reeves drives. As long as do not try to change speeds with motor off and keep system clean & lubed should work just fine. Most of those PM 45's sold to schools and small wood shops and took years of abuse.


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## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

500 bucks holy #$%^ id buy it


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## MisterBill (Mar 27, 2012)

What was that OWWM Rule that you cited the other day….....


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

> Reeves drives get a bad rap due to Asian imports with reeves drives. As long as do not try to change speeds with motor off and keep system clean & lubed should work just fine.


Amen! Reeves drives have been around for a long time … originally application was in early 20th century cars, and are still in use as CVD (continuous variable drive) transmissions. They are dependable if used correctly and are properly maintained.


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## martyoc (Nov 21, 2015)

I have a used Powermatic 45 lathe that I bought used from a museum in Norfolk about 6 years or so ago. The museum had purchased 6 of them from the local high school system who had phased out their woodworking classes, and then had them reconditioned for use in a woodworking program the museum ran for a few years. I was told that they dated from the late 1950's or early '60's. I paid $300 and that included a set of Craftsman turning tools which I quickly replaced since the tools would not hold a decent edge. It looks just about identical to the one in your picture, except mine is green and looks as if it were in a high school program. I did replace the tail center with a live center.

The lathe runs very smoothly and has had no problems. I had to disassemble it to move it up to my home and had some questions during the reassembly. I called Powermatic and they provided a user's manual at no charge. The lathe came with a replacement Leeson 3/4 hp motor that works very well for my use. I have used it primarily for spindle turning since my interest is furniture making. The variable speed works well and is labeled down to 500 rpm. All in all, I am very satisfied with it and think it was a very worthwhile investment.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

You are literally insane for hesitating. How is it even for sale long enough for you to post on the internet? Here that thing would have been sold in minutes and I'm not kidding.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

They had one in my high school wood shop class in high school. That thing was a hoss of a machine. We gave that thing hell and it kept on taking it.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

Calm down guys… It has been sitting quietly in my garage for a couple of days now 

I was fast enough to be first in line (of many according to the PO). I caught the ad a little less than an hour after being posted, and the only thing I asked him was when and where. The dog and I drove down and picked it up that evening.

I wasn't asking IF I should buy it, but about the speed range, and if it's worth the effort and expense to switch it back to three phase and add a VFD. I still need to figure a way to get it out to my back patio - the thing weighs a bunch and is rather awkward to move. Just getting it in and out of the truck bed was quite a feat. If I were to do any work on it, it would be much easier in the garage before being moved, hence the question.

Cheers,
Brad


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## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

haaa good hunting deals here on cl go before ads even come out one guy told me he has apps on his phone that alert him to what he is looking for


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

I knew it.


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## Woodmaster1 (Apr 26, 2011)

It is a great lathe. The school where I taught for 40yrs had them 8 yrs before I started and they are still working. 48 yrs of student abuse and only cosmetic damage.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

My lathe goes down to about 250 rpm and the only time I go that slow is-actually probably never. So I wouldn't bother with a VFD for a lathe that size. Maybe upgrade to a 1.5hp.

Also, CONGRATS!!


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

Thanks Rick… you and Kenny both have me thinking that the current speed range will be sufficient. I wasn't too worried about the upper end - I don't think I've ever used the top speed on my Delta, and rarely even use the next step down (2140 rpm). If I ever want to chase threads, I'll do it on my South Bend!

Also, the original motor was 3/4hp, so the 1hp one in there now is preferable. I had been thinking about converting my Delta to variable speed using a DC treadmill motor, but might consider using the 3/4hp three phase and VFD combo on it instead. At least it's another option to think about if I decide to keep the Delta. Or maybe I'll just sell the Delta as is, and use the money to finally buy a chuck instead… I know you guys have been ragging on me for not using one 

(And I really don't need 4 lathes!)

Cheers,
Brad


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## Nubsnstubs (Aug 30, 2013)

Wow, Brad, 4 lathes and no chucks… You don't know what you're missing…. The chucks designed for wood turning was about 30 years too late… Should have come onto the scene in the 60"s at the latest…...... GET A CHUCK!! ...... Jerry (in Tucson)


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## JoeinGa (Nov 26, 2012)

Well, nobody else may think so, but I say "500 bucks for that monster plus extras? *YOU SUCK *! "


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## Nubsnstubs (Aug 30, 2013)

That'll work, Joe. And in bold. That makes it right…..... Jerry (in Tucson)


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

Dang Joe.. I hardly think it's worthy of that, at least to me  I went well past my normal self-imposed limit of $150! But I have been looking for a bigger lathe for a while now, and recently cut up a bunch of bowl blanks (and have a bunch more that need to be cut) that I know would tear my little Delta apart if I tried to turn them on it - so it just seemed like a good deal at the right time:










Still weighing in on getting a chuck… much to the chagrin of Jerry  I will probably just get a 1"x8tpi tap for now and continue making faceplates like I have been, and see how it goes from there. I know I will need to at least make some new mandrels, jam chucks, cones and other faceplates for the new spindle size at the very least, so the tap is a must have at this point… the chuck, not so much.

Cheers,
Brad


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## daddywoofdawg (Feb 1, 2014)

> Calm down guys… It has been sitting quietly in my garage for a couple of days now
> 
> I was fast enough to be first in line (of many according to the PO). I caught the ad a little less than an hour after being posted, and the only thing I asked him was when and where. The dog and I drove down and picked it up that evening.
> 
> ...


take out the motor,tail-stock,and if the head-stock comes off easily,that will knock the weight down alot,make it easier to move. as far as the speed,what are you turning?How good is your CL? mine suxs. you may be able to get a vfd cheap if you wait for one,or spend about 180.00 for a new one at automation direct. I just looked at one for my lathe.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Don't VFDs rob quite a bit of power?


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Static phase converters do, rotary phase converters and VFDs don't. Some three phase input VFDs can be run on single phase but doing so would cut the peak output power by 1/3 as you have 1 fewer phase delivering power to the DC buss.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

So his 3/4hp 3phase motor + VFD + 1phase power = 3/4hp?


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> So his 3/4hp 3phase motor + VFD + 1phase power = 3/4hp?
> - Rick M.


Yes. The VFD takes single phase input, converts it to DC, then shapes and outputs the proper three phase waveforms. A 3/4hp motor will remain a 3/4hp motor. And in fact, due to the ability to alter the waveform, you can actually increase torque (over-torque), which is not possible running just straight three phase power without the VFD.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: For that 3/4hp motor, I could actually get a VFD that accepts 120v input and outputs three phase 240v output for less than $130… and then run it off any standard wall outlet.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Okay that clears up a lot. I couldn't understand why people would want VFDs if they rob so much power.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

Just a little update… I rewired the motor and starter for 120v (it was setup for 240v), and have put it through its paces a bit to test. I'm pretty sure the lowest speed is more than sufficient for what I need, so I'm going to leave it as is for now. It also has a kind of neat 'slow start' feature that operates off the speed control dial. Moving it from 'Stop' to 'Start' on the speed dial allows the machine to turn on, but not fully engage the reeves drive - meaning the spindle won't start to turn until the speed is turned up a bit more to fully engage the drive belt. I imagine that will be perfect for larger out of balance bowl blanks before getting them roughed out.

Still need to get it out to the back patio - but I have a plan that should work for that 

Cheers,
Brad

PS: I did have to bypass the heaters on the starter… the machine was originally shipped wired for three phase 240/480v operation with a 3/4hp motor, so the heaters were WAY too small for use with a single phase 1hp motor running on 120v. Fortunately, the 1hp motor has a built in overload, so the overload protection on the starter isn't needed.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

What kinda delta lathe did you have?

I picked up a 46-612 and I'm looking for pics of the cable assembly for speed adjustment. It was missing. Trying to fab something.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Have you found a source for heaters? I have a DJ-20 that was originally 3ph and I put a 1.5hp single phase motor in running off only two legs and it works fine but too many starts in too short of time will trip it. I can't remember if the motor has overload protection or not but I like the idea of having that on the machine.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> Have you found a source for heaters?
> - bigblockyeti


Depends on what starter you have… for my PM45, I kind of got lucky and the new motor had the overload protection internally - so I just used some wire to jumper the heaters on the starter to keep them from tripping. Figure out what heater numbers you need, which should be listed on the inside cover of the starter… with that info and the manufacturer, you can probably track some down. Check over at OWWM as well - there are a few members that have small stockpiles of various sizes.

Cheers,
Brad


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

ditto. If you get the #s off the starter it's not too hard to find the series of overloads and then the specific amperage your looking for.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Brad, would you be willing to take a pic of reeves drive cable assembly? That lathe looks a hell of a lot like the delta. I'm mainly wondering where and how a spring factors in because my manual shows the parts separate.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

Sorry man… no cable on that beast. It's a mechanical connection via a cam mechanism. Way different.

Cheers,
Brad


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## Nubsnstubs (Aug 30, 2013)

> Brad, would you be willing to take a pic of reeves drive cable assembly? *That lathe looks a hell of a lot like the delta. *I'm mainly wondering where and how a spring factors in because my manual shows the parts separate.
> 
> - TheFridge


Fridge, if you need a picture of a Delta Reeves set up, I have a pristine 46-450 I can get a picture for you…... Jerry (in Tucson)


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## RichBolduc (Jan 30, 2018)

Theres one of these listed for $300 in Tampa Bay right now with the 3/4 HP motor. No where near this nice of condition though.

Rich


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