# The squares I got were half accurate



## Bertha

Starrett wins again. I have a hard time sending tools back, even if they're defective. It just feels like I'm losing tools!


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## MrRon

I'm not 100% certain, but I believe engineering squares only have to be square on the outside.


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## ratchet

Agreed, they are designed to be true on the outside only. But that said, it would be nice to have the inside correct as well. I wonder if you could file the insides true. Thanks for the review.


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## DraftsmanRick

Randy,
I've got a couple of engineering squares i ordered from a mail order mag and they weren't all that great either. I cant remember the name of them right now (maybe Zog) but it started with a "Z" i believe? They are also NOT square on either inside or out. Ron/Ratchet i didnt know that. You would think a square would be "square" on both sides.

Randy,
You can also check with this method to see if its square in case you dont know. Place the square on a straight edge of work, draw a perpendicular line, and then flip the square over and check it. If it lines up when the square is flipped, its square. Thats the easyist way to do it. 
I would send them back if you haven't already. I know most everyone is feeling this econemy but personally i dont like spending my hard earned money on crap tools that dont perform. As Pat Warner the router guru says when it comes to layout tools: Close work, is guess work. 
Thanks for your post and sharing with us.


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## Dusty56

Does it say anywhere in their {Hartville Tool} sales ad / literature that the squares are only square on one side ?
Shouldn't their salespeople let us know before we purchase them ?
They have the final say if the squares are defective or not ??? 
That doesn't sound like "great customer service" to me : (

*My Engineer squares from WoodCraft {GROZ} are square inside and out and came in a nice box as well : )*


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## Dusty56

Two Possible April Fools comments above ? LOL

http://www.aloktools.com/precision_steelsquare.php
I couldn't find anywhere online that states the Engineers squares are only square on the outside , but rather *square and parallel inside and out* was mentioned. 
http://www.amazon.com/Piece-Engineers-Square-Set-Case/dp/B003A08PTU


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## RandyMorter

Thanks guys…

I've been trying to use them for a day before deciding whether to send them back.

This link is to the actual set I ordered. They say they're parallel as well so I expected the inside to be square.

DraftsmanRick - Thanks for the instructions - I knew about that but I just measured them with my Starrett and saw a flaw that way so didn't bother with the line test. On one of the insides it looks like it could be filed because there appears to be just a raised or thicker part near the handle. But I don't want to file them - if I had a milling machine I might try it but I don't trust my filing.

To be honest, they actually fit my needs nicely for setting up blades. I've been able to set up my table saw and I've checked and found my band saw isn't square (I'd set it with my little Empire 6"). I'm still debating on them - Hartville has a Incra 5" square that looks nice and I've discussed exchanging this set for that but then I have just the one size. Those Groz squares pointed out by Dusty56 may actually be the ticket. But again, I don't think I'll actually be using the insides.


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## lashing

The reason this is so prevelant is most people have no real square reference not do actual work. Its like exercise machines at Walmart. They fall apart if you use them but they know the people buying them will simply never actually use them.

They can made perfectly accurate stuff in China and for less than an American product. They do have all the tooling and skill. They choose not to as they would rather sell 100000 squares and get 1000 back then sell 1000 actually good ones at a higher price point. I should rephrase that - the reailer actually takes the lost as China takes nothing back. The retailers simply work the projected returns into price. It all could stop if they simply refused to sell trash or people stopped buying it.


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