# Am I the only one who hates the Laguna 14 Twelve guide blocks?



## msandrews (Mar 19, 2016)

I've watched and read a lot of glowing reviews for the Laguna 14 Twelve bandsaw, most of which give particularly high praise to the blade guides. But I've owned the 14 Twelve myself for just over two years and I have to say I HATE the blade guides! My experience is so opposite that of others that I have to wonder if my blade guides are defective or they've been redesigned since I bought my 14 Twelve.

The biggest problem is that no matter how hard I torque down on the knobs that "lock" the guides in position, I can easily knock them out of position by simply pressing sideways on the blade, which in turn exerts a sideways force against the guides and pushes them out of positions. But this is precisely like the blade deflection the guides are supposed to prevent. In other words, the guides do not keep the blade from deflecting. Instead, they just move out of position and leave a huge gap between the blade and the guide blocks.

I've cranked down so hard on the knobs that I've actually made my fingers bleed, and that's still not tight enough. The problem, as I see it, is that the guide components are made of smooth, slick, anodized aluminum, and there simply isn't enough friction between mating surfaces to keep the guides in adjustment when subjected to normal operating forces.

Have any other Laguna 14 Twelve bandsaw owners experienced this same issue? If so, have you or Laguna come up with a fix for it? Or am I the only one who hates the guide blocks on this bandsaw?

Thanks.


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## ThomasChippendale (Nov 6, 2015)

I have a Laguna 14 SUV with the blue anodized quite blocks holder and just went checking, they are as stiff as one could want. Think about it, if you screw down a block, either wood or aluminum, it won't move sideways with the simple pressure of ones hand. The knobs are plastic, but they apply pressure to the blocks by pressing on a steel washer, do you have washers between the plastic knob and the aluminum surface ?


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## conifur (Apr 1, 2015)

If your sure all is correct with it, why not contact Laguna?


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

I seem to remember something about them not being threaded all the way? You've checked with the guides out? I may be thinking of a different machine.


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## msandrews (Mar 19, 2016)

The stock 14 Twelve doesn't have washers between the knobs and the aluminum blocks they're supposed to hold in place, but I've tried adding them and they make little if any difference. The adjustable aluminum blocks in which the ceramic inserts are mounted can still slide across the surface of the stationary block when subjected to the lateral force of blade deflection. The mating blocks will slide against one another, rather than hold fast, as long as the force of friction doesn't exceed the lateral force. I would think having etched, rather than smooth, mating surfaces would be better.

The bolts on the knobs are threaded over their entire length, and they go into holes that go clear through the mounting blocks, so they can't be bottoming out before tightening.

I do plan on contacting Laguna tomorrow (Monday), but I'm interested in finding out whether anyone else has experienced the same problem.

Thanks for your replies.


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## jerryminer (Jun 15, 2014)

> I would think having etched, rather than smooth, mating surfaces would be better.
> - Mark A


That might be your answer. Maybe try roughing up the mating surfaces with some coarse sandpaper--after you talk to Laguna.


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## MinnesotaSteve (Dec 17, 2015)

So I just bought a Laguna 14-12 and set it up today.

There's a lot wrong with the manual… I was really frustrated because it seemed like entire pages were missing. But I have to say, I struggled with those guides… The difficult part was getting the side guides parallel to the blade, when the entire assembly easily twisted no matter how hard you had the bolt tightened down.

Once I got it setup, it seems to be working well. I need to play with it more and figure out what's the secret.


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## msandrews (Mar 19, 2016)

I contacted Laguna customer service about the issues I'm having with the blade guides. They suggested adding metal washers to the lock knobs, which I've tried before but I tried it again. It helps somewhat, but not enough to eliminate the problem of the guides slipping out of position.

I also experience the problem of the entire upper guide assembly rotating on the support shaft. I've been able to reduce that problem by screwing a bolt into the second threaded hole in the fixed block of the assembly.


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## ThomasChippendale (Nov 6, 2015)

Seems you are not tightening things enough, try making a block with a groove to fit on the knob and give you a better grip to tighten the knobs, same for the screws, use more torque. I have not experienced any slippage with mine by hand tighhtening but it requires some effort and the position is less than ideal. Adjusting blocks parallel does take some getting used to but after a dozen set-ups, it becomes easy.


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## msandrews (Mar 19, 2016)

I think you're absolutely right that I'm not tightening things enough, but my chief complaint is that it's not possible to tighten things enough without making modifications to the guide system. My bleeding fingers are proof of that, and that's an indication that the design and/or manufacture is less than it's cracked up to be.

What I've done to more-or-less overcome the problems is replace the round, finger-tightened lock knobs with Allen-head screws, which I can torque down hard with a wrench. I've also added second bolts to hold the entire guide assembly onto its shaft to help keep the assembly from rotating when I am cranking down on those Allen-head screws. That assembly on a round shaft is another design miss, in my opinion.

I've also contacted Carter Products about a guide upgrade kit for the Laguna 14 Twelve. They do offer one. It's Carter product LAG1412. It's price is $274. It's currently not listed on carterproducts.com. You have to order it by phone.


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## asloanie (Dec 15, 2012)

I am late to the dance on this topic but would like to weigh in. I have the BX model and absolutely hate hate hate the guide blocks.. I would never buy the saw again. No mater how tight i go down on the them..they loosen up like my 6 year old was the one that tightened them.


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

Sounds like a defective part. I have had my 14/twelve for over three years and I have never had a problem with the guides. In fact, I consider the ceramic guides one of the really great features of the saw.


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## Bill_Steele (Aug 29, 2013)

I also have a 14/twelve and have not experienced problems with the guides moving once I tighten them. I don't feel that I have to bear down on them to get them tight. I have little to no experience with other types of guides so I can't compare. The lower guides are a little tricky to adjust, but not to the point where I feel like cursing 

It sounds to me like your saw may be defective/damaged or perhaps missing a part. Perhaps try removing the guide assemblies and cleaning them. Maybe something slick is on them-like the corrosion inhibitor that the table is coated with when you get the saw brand new.

I have a tendency to get the guides a little to close to the blade when I'm adjusting them. I can tell this when I spin the wheels and the blade slightly drags on the guides. I find that a rolling paper wrapped around the blade gives me a good clearance.


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## BattleRidge (Oct 22, 2017)

While it's likely not an issue with your saw, I have a Laguna 18BX and found that the piece of angle that holds the lower guide seemed to be a little off. Upon disassembly, I discovered a couple small spots of welding splatter on the bottom of the plate. Using a Dremel tool with a sanding attachment, I was able to easily remove the spots and all fits smooth and snug. It might help to brightly light the parts and see if you notice any deformity or other impairments. I really like my Laguna guides.


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## Johnny_Yuma (Nov 29, 2009)

I am not a fan of the guide blocks at all. I was going to replace them with some Carters but I've had enough with this saw (14 twelve). Looking to replace mine very soon.


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## Sunstealer73 (Sep 2, 2012)

I actually converted my Rikon 10-325 to the ceramic guide blocks similar to the Laguna. I like them much better than the roller bearings that came stock.


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

I also have a Rikon bandsaw that uses guide bearings. I buy them in tubes of 10 because that is what it takes to keep it going.


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## Sunstealer73 (Sep 2, 2012)

> I also have a Rikon bandsaw that uses guide bearings. I buy them in tubes of 10 because that is what it takes to keep it going.


I used this kit, very happy with it:

http://spaceageceramics.com/rikon-14-guide-blocks/


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## coxhaus (Dec 14, 2015)

I had a Rikon 10-325 and got tired of adjusting the roller bearings. They are harder to adjust than my current old Minimax 45S bandsaw with the European guides which I like better.


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Has any experiences changed in the last couple of years?

I was watching the videos on the Laguna site and granted, I am not the expert, but how on earth can you set the rear guide BEFORE you set the tracking? Just the videos out of sequence?

Anyway, fiddled with one at the store again today and the rotation of the guide assembly seems to be quite "iffy" I have that problem with the Space Age blocks in my Delta. I have to get down with a strong backlight to verify the blocks are not skewed.

Kind of pushing me to the Rikon. Maybe a set of SpaceAge guides.


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Bump before I spend my money!


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## msandrews (Mar 19, 2016)

I'm the original poster of this thread. Laguna hasn't made any changes to the design or construction of the guides, as far as I'm aware. I'm still living with the original guides and I'm still not a fanboy, although I've gotten them to work okay for my customary uses.


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Much thanks. I think that clarifies things. Blue and white it wil be.


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## Furnone (Jan 11, 2018)

've had my Laguna 14-12 bandsaw for 3 years now and I still love it….but.. I'm going to buy Carter guides for it at the woodworking show in NJ next week. The sparking ceramic guides have always worried me and last week it finally happened. I had just finished resawing a piece of pine and when I looked back at the saw, smoke was rising from the lower guides. Had I left the shop right after shutting off the saw, disaster would probably have ensued.

I have not had much trouble adjusting the guides as others apparently have. It is a pain to have to tilt the table to adjust the lower guides, but a minor nuisance.

I do still consider it a great saw, but I would like to see them offer a Carter type guide as an option.


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Thanks. I put my Delta up for sale to help offset the cost of the Rikon. On sale this week, but having a hard time justifying it. Sold a few extra tools and made a few bucks. Part of it is never having a truly useful BS, I am not positive of all the things I would use it for I can't do on my 10 incher now it is working correctly. I bet one would be the leg taper I just did on the TS. Even on the sled I built, a bit jumpy and not quite as precise ( 3 inch oak, 5 inch long 3/8 inch taper on the lower inside edges of a Craftsman style coffee table) Going to try cutting the through mortice slots on it as less scary than a 2 1/2 inch deep dado. Cutting the tenons should be easier.


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## EllenWoodHead (Feb 9, 2020)

> I've cranked down so hard on the knobs that I've actually made my fingers bleed, and that's still not tight enough.


Well ya know, blade guides are like total rocket science, very new, very advanced, very cutting-edge and futuristic, which requires very advanced users to understand their complexities and nuances. Perhaps you are not worthy. I recommend a giant wrench and cheater bar, then by gosh you'll teach those guides a lesson.

I bought my Shop Fox bandsaw a couple years ago. Very happy with it. When I went to the store my original plan was to buy the Laguna because it was on sale, and it looked like a good saw. After fiddling around with it I changed my mind, and the store dweeb kept telling me I wasn't experiencing what I was experiencing. Guide adjustment didn't hold, couldn't get the blade to track, and it had a funny noise that the store dweeb insisted was normal.

I suspect it's a quality control problem rather than a design defect, and Laguna should send you guides that actually work.


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## rad457 (Jun 15, 2013)

When it was time to upgrade my 14" Delta, the 14/12 and the Rikon where my first 2 choice's but never liked the disc set up. Luckily a 17" General (dual bearings) came up for sale that was too good of deal not to get! Did pick up a little Rikon 10-305 back in 2014 that gets very little use.


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Got in the truck and started down the road. Man, just can't drop a grand right now, Looking into how to do a DIY fence. I may still change my mind. Cutting the tenons on the BS is a lot less dramatic than on the TS. 1/2 inch blade is a little rough so may try a 6 TPI 3/8.


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## Furnone (Jan 11, 2018)

I went to the woodworking show in NJ yesterday and bought the Carter upgrade kit for the Laguna. I installed them last night and, although I only made one trial cut so far, I think they are all that I expected them to be.
Easy to install, easy to adjust and NO SPARKS!

I cut a 2" circle in pine with a 3/8" blade. No binding or sparking. A little under $300 with show discount and tax, but worth it to me.


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Sitting tight with ny 10 inch Delta ( Space Age Ceramic guides) Very rarely see a spark and I was cutting some disks yesterday with the half inch blade. I probably set them a tad looser than some.

So, saving money for a possible purchase of a table saw with a riving knife and delay the BS until next year's spring sale. Spent my pocket change on a WorkSharp. Quite impressed even with it's issues.


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## msandrews (Mar 19, 2016)

Furnone, thanks for posting about the Carter guides for the Laguna. I can live with occasional sparks from the stock ceramic inserts, but I need guides that remain in place when subjected to some lateral force, as when cutting curves, for example. Hopefully the Carter guides prove to do the trick. Hope you'll update us when you have more experience.


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## Jarrhead (Mar 15, 2009)

I realize this thread is a few years old, but I am having issues with my Laguna guides too, and wanted to chime in. I hate them. With hindsight, I wouldn't buy another Laguna tool. My issue isn't so much with the efficacy of the ceramic guides themselves, but rather with how difficult they are to adjust each time I change blades. Extremely difficult to get them to stay in position while you tighten them down. The design is very poor compared to others I have researched. My other complaint is the build quality. My guides came from the factory misaligned in the blocks. So, when I had them locked down, the left one would stick further forward than the right one, making it impossible to get equal support on each side of the blade. I want to upgrade to Carter's, but their kit price is up over $300 for my Laguna 16-3000 saw. Not sure the saw is worth that investment. I guess I should have done more research before I bought.


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

I was about 90% sure I was going to buy the Laguna 14bx-220, but am now convinced to try a Harvey. There is not a Rikon in that middle ground and their guides are difficult to keep set when snugging. So are the Space Age in my Delta. So are just about every guide out there. It puzzles my whi it seems so hard as I can think of several ways to make them easy to adjust and hold. Maybe someone holds patents on the good ways, but not sure who.

I have seen several complaints on Laguna quality, but then compare it to the alternatives. No good news in this area.


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## Jarrhead (Mar 15, 2009)

I've heard good things about the Harvey, especially their blade guides. Unfortunately, they only offer a 14", so may not be enough capacity for some.


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Just got off the phone with Harvey. They had good answers for my questions so I am ordering a C-14 in the morning. They don't have an 18 or 20 in their name line yet. 
Shipping is still happening. They are managing their own support out of their California facility.


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## Jarrhead (Mar 15, 2009)

I hope you will post a thorough review of the saw once you receive it, and have a chance to set it up and use it.


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

That I will. From start to finish. The gentleman at Harvey was requesting it too. Of course, he said it I did have any issues, contact them before I make a mess on the forum. Sounds fair to me! Having been a quality engineer and done a lot of procurement, I know things do not always go right, but the true mark of a company is how you are treated when they don't. Off to do my order now.


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## Biddy (Jul 8, 2021)

I have been experiencing the same problem with my 14/12. I like my bandsaw except for making adjustments with guides. No matter how hard I tighten the knobs (I am 76 you see) they loosen up almost immediately. Maybe im not strong enough, but I don't remember that being required before I purchased the saw. Ha! A wrench that fits in the slots in the knobs would be VERY helpful. I'll try some of the suggestions from others on the blog. Good luck to all LAGUNA owners.


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

If you search the WEB, that seems to be a common problem. I believe you can get Carter guides for it, but they may mount on the same slippery dovetails. What does Laguna say?


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## AL61 (Sep 3, 2016)

So I just took delivery of a Laguna 1412 and stumbled onto this thread while looking for any tips on how to best setup my new saw. I got quite concerned after reading some of the comments and was wondering if I made a mistake, but fortunately, I don't seem to be having the kinds of problems mentioned here. Maybe I got lucky?

I find that with just moderate pressure on the knobs, the blocks lock in place very securely. I am also am finding the overall process MUCH easier than the trying to adjust the guides on my 10" Rikon. Adjusting the upper guides is a breeze, the lower guides are a bit more difficult with the table in the way, but really not too bad (normally I would take Alex Snodgrass' advice and remove the table, but it is a bit fussy to install the Laguna table requiring a second person to align the trunnion bolts)

Like someone else here posted, my Rikon chews through bearings like popcorn and I always have to keep a supply on hand (I even had to resort to an oil soaked block of maple in place of one of the bearings when I ran out once!). My little Rikon has been a great workhorse, and I will keep it around for scrolling work, but my initial impression is that the quality of the Laguna is much better than my Rikon.

Full disclaimer, I've only had the Laguna for a one day and have only have made a few test cuts. We will see if I still feel the same way after living with it for a while, but for anyone reading this, my experience with the blade guides so far has been good.


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

I bought one step better bearings and they seem to be holding up on my Harvey. I did a mod though, packing the sides with old school axle grease. Not the new thin stuff, the old really thick gooey stuff. Then I put foil tape over the open side of the rear guides so dust can only get in from one side, not two.

I researched saws very deeply. Tough between the Rikon, Harvey, and Laguna. Some have guide issues with the Laguna, most do not. It was my second choice but I am sure I would have been happy with any of the three.

I sort of like the easy to adjust guides on the Harvey, but if I were to design a guide block, I would do it another way.

To adjust my lower guides, I just tilt the table. My hand won't fit in where the lock knob is. Maybe that would work on the Laguna too.


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## AL61 (Sep 3, 2016)

> I researched saws very deeply. Tough between the Rikon, Harvey, and Laguna. Some have guide issues with the Laguna, most do not. It was my second choice but I am sure I would have been happy with any of the three.


I had such a good experience with my little Rikon that I was just going to go with their 14" too. My 10" was a low cost unit and I had very realistic expectations when I bought it (for light duty hobby work). It consistently exceeded those expectations and has only been limited in usefulness by its physical size. But when I started shopping for a 14" saw, I got consistent recommendations from everyone I spoke with for the Laguna over the Rikon at the same price point. Also, the Laguna was in stock, but Rikons are backorder for who knows how long due to all the shipping snarl ups.



> To adjust my lower guides, I just tilt the table. My hand won t fit in where the lock knob is. Maybe that would work on the Laguna too.


I am actually finding that there is enough room to get my hands in with table flat, it's just a bit harder to see what you are doing (and my knees aren't quite so happy about squatting down anymore!). If I tilt the table, I can get to one side easy enough, but the other side is even more cramped.


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## dbw (Dec 2, 2013)

I need to replace my bandsaw and I was 90% leaning toward a Laguna 14bx. I am now no so sure after reading the comments in this thread.


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## AL61 (Sep 3, 2016)

One of the downsides of having so much information available on-line is that there will always be someone who had a bad experience with a product. No matter what the brand or model or make, someone out there will have the misfortune of getting a defective product or having a poor customer service experience. Human nature being what it is, we then tend to focus on those negative outliers.

I have no stake in Laguna or Rikon or any other brand out there, but there is no way that any brand remains long term successful if there are rampant major defects in quality. I have come to the conclusion that 1) product reviews should be just one data point 2) there will always be a bad story, so unless there is a recurring theme that is prevalent, don't take them all too seriously, and 3) don't over-research, there is a point of diminishing returns on time invested.

I am sure that if you bought a Laguna or a Rikon or Jet, or any of the other brands at a similar price point, you are far more likely to be happy with your purchase than not. There are, of course exceptions, you might be unlucky and get a "lemon", but those odds are probably pretty uniform across brands at a given price point. The one caveat is if there is a specific feature that you MUST (or MUST NOT) have. In that case, look for the product that has the feature set you want or you will always be unhappy with your choice.

OK, I'll get off my soapbox now


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## TomM (Jan 20, 2009)

I'll go on record that I was thrilled with the ceramic guides on day one, and 3.5 years later I still like them. Yeah the bottom inboard knob is a little hard to get to, but as far as guiding the blade with no drift while resawing 8" walnut and cherry, it's great.


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## AL61 (Sep 3, 2016)

> I ll go on record that I was thrilled with the ceramic guides on day one, and 3.5 years later I still like them. Yeah the bottom inboard knob is a little hard to get to, but as far as guiding the blade with no drift while resawing 8" walnut and cherry, it s great.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What blade are you using for resawing?


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## TomM (Jan 20, 2009)

> What blade are you using for resawing?
> 
> - AL61


Timberwolf 3/4" x 3tpi


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## them700project (Aug 12, 2015)

I bought the 14 SUV, I believe the blocks are the same. When i received the saw I made my best attempt at setting it up. When I tested it it sparked, so i readjusted following every online tutorial and it always sparked. I let it sit and didnt come back to it for a year or so, till after I heard they do that and thats the way it is. After that I felt more comfortable using it. I dont like the fence on the SUV, it is only 2.5" tall or so. but the blocks have been OK. The SUV may have more access under the table for lower blocks I dont have to tilt table. Still havent used it a ton but its not because of the blocks anymore


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## AL61 (Sep 3, 2016)

> What blade are you using for resawing?
> 
> - AL61
> 
> ...


I always have had good experience with Timberwolf blades. I bought a 3/4" x 2/3 TPI Timberwolf blade for resawing on my new Laguna but haven't tried it out yet.


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## AL61 (Sep 3, 2016)

> I bought the 14 SUV, I believe the blocks are the same. When i received the saw I made my best attempt at setting it up. When I tested it it sparked, so i readjusted following every online tutorial and it always sparked. I let it sit and didnt come back to it for a year or so, till after I heard they do that and thats the way it is. After that I felt more comfortable using it. I dont like the fence on the SUV, it is only 2.5" tall or so. but the blocks have been OK. The SUV may have more access under the table for lower blocks I dont have to tilt table. Still havent used it a ton but its not because of the blocks anymore
> 
> - them700project


I always stone new bandsaw blades as a matter of habit. I wonder of that would help reduce the sparking somewhat?


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