# Excellent Saw for the Cost



## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

This is an excellent, well written review that is of value to LJs. Thank you.


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## TheBossQ (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks for posting your review.

I have no doubt that the saw performs better wired for 220v, however, if Hitachi told you it produces 3hp just from rewiring for 220v, they lied to you (whether intentionally or out of ignorance).

If there is truely a large difference (i.e. twice the cutting performance) after rewiring, then there is something else going on electrically.

A 1.5hp motor produces 1.5hp whether wired for 110 or 220. The only difference is efficiency and amp draw. Whatever the label says on the motor, that is the motor's output.


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## h8uman (Aug 31, 2009)

According to the Specs, this is a 3HP motor.

15-Amp 10" Table Saw
15 Amp induction motor (3.0 HP)
27" x 40" table top with extension wing
Blade tilt and blade height adjustment knobs up front for easy access
Table top angle scale

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=159372-46578-C10FL&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=1038299&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=sim&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

Now there is a difference in performance 110 vs. 220. I have seen that myself. If the motor can run at 220, and you have the 220, run it at 220. The tool will be much better.


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## Wodbug (Feb 22, 2011)

TheBossQ. Well, since you are not able to see for yourself the improvement and obviously an electrical expert, then I guess the point is moot for any further discussion.
I have lived long enough to understand motor specs. Hitachi did not lie to me so let me clarify my comment as probably I should have before to prevent some from lecturing. If I was to test the HP

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120V, the HP would not reach 3 HP and when ripping hard wood the speed would be affected, which I have experienced. Hitachi simply said that full 3HP and full speed/power ratio would be attained with wiring
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 220V.
I am a new member here so maybe it is a rule to defer to the "experts". If so, then my membership here is also a moot point.
A profound thanks to those who appreciated my experience with the saw. I hope it added to all's knowledge. I also thank all you who have reviewed this saw; a lot of information is now available for those shopping for a good saw.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Welcome to Ljs wodbug 
I guess the 3hp thing is a no load HP kinda like sears rates it's motors. I'm glad you have enjoyed your saw and have taken the time to write a well written review.


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

Some interesting reading and charts regarding voltage / amps / HP ratings
http://www.kevinsbrady.net/motors.pdf


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## WaywardHoosier (May 9, 2007)

This saw is no longer offered by Hitachi. They currently do have one portable version.

Saws are dropped and added more by Company takeovers and supplier contract agreements than saw performance. Reviews of discontinued saws are helpful for searching used saws at a great price.

I am in the market for a good AND affordable saw and I appreciate all reviews. In my extensive searches, I am finding that almost all saws are made by a handful of Chinese and Taiwanese manufacturers. You have to keep searching the source of the saw.

China is such a factor in today's consumer machine industry.


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## Kenshu (Mar 6, 2009)

I believe this saw was replaced by the Porter Cable PCB270 TS. I have purchased this saw and I am very satisfied with it for the cost.


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## Wodbug (Feb 22, 2011)

Thanks a1JIm, Hoosier & Kenshu. It has been discontinued for a while now, although I have seen them in several Lowe's here in Fl and in Louisiana recently. The C10Fl & Porter Cable PCB 270 are the same TS, with what appears to be several modifications to the cabinet and the caster lift.
Hoosier, you might get your local Lowe's to find one for you with maybe being able to transfer it to your store for pickup; Lowe's has done this for me several times when my store was out-of-stock.
Kenshu, you will need to be a string of spaghetti when you align your blade, if ever. A small small angle pry bar is most helpful, as are a second pair of hands.
Thanks guys.


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## WaywardHoosier (May 9, 2007)

Woodbug, yes that is a good way to check selection, Ihave been contemplating that. A fellow worker purchsed the Porter Cable PCB270 TSand is very pleased with it (and he is a "perfectionist").

I notice the power tools in the Home Depot and Lowes in the more economically depressed areas of St. Louis sell for less, are still in stock, or get reduced more for a greater savings.

I will check it out


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## TheBossQ (Jan 10, 2011)

Sorry if I offended you. That was not my intent. You do not have to defer to anyone (experts or otherwise) and no, that is not a rule here.

Dusty56 posted a link to factual, scientific data regarding the way some manufacturers rate motor output.

Good luck to you.


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## schmo (Jan 13, 2011)

I too am new to LJs and purchase this saw a year ago. The only change I made to it so far was to add angle iron to the front and back legs for extra bracing. I have a small shop and most equip is on wheeled bases.

I have had no problems with the saw at all. Cuts are straight and true. On my "hobby budget". This was a best buy for the money.


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## jbertelson (Sep 26, 2009)

Is it possible that this motor when rewired for 220 actually uses more coils, and conversely only half the coils on 110. Ignorant about motors, here, just don't know if someone actually makes a motor like that. I have rewired all my big motors (two saws and a DC) for 220. Not to get more HP, but to reduce amp load on the house wiring, and indeed it worked. But these motors act pretty much the same, probably because they had good feeds in the first place. I also had an electrician come in and go over the whole house, and he tightened the feeds to the house and at each panel, and that helped. I feed my TS and RAS one one 220 circuit, and the DC on its own 220 circuit. The cord to the TS is 12 gauge, to minimize any voltage drop.


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## tt1106 (Dec 31, 2009)

I also have this saw. Got it for 300 from criagslist about a year and a half ago. With a freud blade and dado set it has ripped and sawn through a couple hundred board feet of oak and I can't even begin to count the pine and poplar. I found replacement gears for the blade tilt mechanism (it was crunchy when I got it) from ereplacementparts.com. Currently using an incra 1000 and two sleds. The wings are cheap and one of them looks crinkled from either moving the saw or from being out of alignment when put together. Otherwise, I am very happy with the saw also. It cuts very well. I have it wired for 110 as the garage doesn't have 220. I bought this to replace an 80 dollar protech (bwaaahahahaha) saw that walked all over my garage. At the time I bought it, the same saw was on display at Lowes for 599, so I'm pretty happy with it. Best wishes Wodbug, I love mine. 
Two things this is what looks like plugged up(note dust coming out front of saw in pic 1) and the homemade outfeed came with the saw. (see below)
http://lumberjocks.com/tt1106/workshop


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## Wodbug (Feb 22, 2011)

Thanks Jim. The following is an excerpt from the new Shopsmith Mark VII review: _The PowerPro power source is a huge addition to the Shopsmith line.

To begin, the new digital variable reluctance (DVR) motor provides 1¾ horsepower when wired to a 120-volt circuit and 2 horsepower if you're wired with 240 volts. Link to review:
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/tools/the-new-mark-vii-from-shopsmith?et_mid=224159&rid=3341918

So, I assume these folks know what they are talking about since they are the professionals. Many folks do not believe a gain in HP is possible by switching to 220V. I assure you it is and the gain is in proportion with the number of coils (and windings), their impedance, and the voltage increase. 
I love this saw and how it performs with 220V. It does Rock! As I said, I had to bolt the durn thing to the shop floor to keep it from jerking so hard on startup.
If you can find a god used C10FL, get it. One final thought: With the motor inside the cab and the short V belt used, with 5 years of medium use, the belt still looks new and no stretch whatsoever. Sweet. Regular cleaning of the gears is necessary as fine sawdust does gather in the gear grooves.


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## jbertelson (Sep 26, 2009)

Sometimes we make assumptions that are not correct when we are comparing things. In this case, we may think we are comparing the same motor on 110 and 220 when we change the wiring, but it sounds like at least in certain cases, we may be bringing in more coils with 220 wiring…....which would be in the design of the voltage switching setup of a particular motor. Of course, I don't know anything about digital variable induction motors, which add a whole different set of issues, with the electronics involved. But at least, it seems like my question about possible variations in design of allowing the two different voltages is a valid consideration.

Something else I think is correct, is the improved transfer of power using a higher voltage if there is some limitation along the line to the amount of amps used, meaning that there may be a higher percentage voltage drop in a 110 circuit if there is a marginal cord or household circuit used, or an imperfect connection. That's why I had the electrician come to the house and inspect all the panels. I don't hesitate to run my own circuits, but I draw the line at working on panel feeds.

Of well, don't anyone take anything I say about this issue as an expert opinion, because I am not an expert, don't intend to become one, and may be expounding b… s…

But I bet you get more power on 220 with your saw, whatever the reason. But the reason may not be simple, and doesn't neccessarily apply to all households and motors.

Gad zooks, overworking again….....got to get more coffee in the cup if I am going to make it through the day.

Jim


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## Wodbug (Feb 22, 2011)

ROTF Jim, just make sure the coffee is 180 proof, yea… And thank you for your experience and wisdom, no expert necessary.


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## jbertelson (Sep 26, 2009)

*Wodbug*

I think I ought to warn you….....(-:

..........infesting this forum is every level of accomplishment in electrical matters, waiting for the opportune moment to demonstrate their evil expertise, and at this moment we should both be in foxholes, waiting for the "ElectoGods" to throw lightning bolts at us and our wise pronouncements, reducing all to ozone and carbon…...and perchance a few shavings, as they destroy and mutilate our cherished conclusions, leaving us wounded and wailing on the dunes of LJ sawdust, carrion for the wood scavengers to devour us, and reduce us into lowdensity particle board, to be used for IKEA works of plebian furniture art…..for the nonbelievers.

Can you think of a worse fate?

So let us enjoy this moment…....it will not last…............(-:

Alaska Jim

............recovering, had my coffee, afternoon off, comfortable in the knowledge….....that the beeper will not beep, and I don't have to answer the telephone….......even if I could find it in my present state of….......relaxation…......(-:


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## Sawsall12 (May 24, 2011)

I bought this saw last year as my woodworking projects had outgrown the capabilities of my cheesy Ryobi TS. There have been complaints about the fence, but I have had great results. The motor is strong and smooth. The casters allow me to move the saw around the garage with ease. I absolutely loved this saw until last week. A new project requires me to use the miter slots. I checked the alignment to the blade and found it out of adjustment by 1/16th of an inch. The manual makes no reference for this adjustment. After a 30 minute discussion with a customer service agent reading from the same manual, I was told there is no way to adjust it, they would make a note of my complaint, and hung up on!!! I found a forum online discussing the same issue, with no resolution. Another site claims that the saw is not made by Porter Cable at all. It is made by Rexon who purchased the rights to to use the PC logo. This saw has so much potential, but without that adjustment, it is essentially useless. This oversight in conjunction with poor customer service has ensured there will be no more Porter Cable tools in my shop.


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## Wodbug (Feb 22, 2011)

Howdy Sawsall12, There are 4 #8 Hex head bolts that attach the motor assembly to the center table. You will need a flexible joint for your ratchet extension and a well made hex socket, due to the torque on these bolts.
Please read my initial post on this thread for more info about adjusting the blade.
I also found some very well made cast iron side tables bought from Hermance, both side tables cost $189.00 plus shipping, $52.00 to Florida. The mount holes do not match but cast iron is easy to drill. They are 4 hole tables, the C10FL has three hole sides. Here is their site link: www.hermance.com. The item # is CNS-CIWA and ship via UPS. The sales folks there are great to talk to and knowledgeable.
I hope this reply helps you some and remember to use an angled pry bar and a friend to hold the motor assembly in place while you tighten the bolts. Entry is from the rear panel removing 6 screws. Plenty of room except for the far right bolt: it is a bear to work on.


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## Sawsall12 (May 24, 2011)

Thanks for the reply Wodbug! I just realized this forum is talking about the Hitachi. I actually have the Porter Cable PCB270TS. I've heard that it is closely related. I did figure out how to adjust the table to the blade, but it is not an easy process. The first step is to remove the front and rear panels. Don't forget to removed the angle indicator tape. Remove the four allen bolts that mount the table to the frame. Finally remove the table. Now you will see four allen bolts mounting the saw to the frame. Loosen the hex nuts on the underside of the allen bolts a few turns.
















Now the allen bolts can be loosened and the blade can be adjusted to the miter slots. "EXCEPT FOR ONE SMALL PROBLEM." The miter slots are on the table that was just removed to gain access to the adjustment bolts!!! No wonder they don't mention this in the manual. My only question is WHY???? I adjusted it slightly in the general direction, but with nothing to reference, it is impossible to get an accurate adjustment. My solution was to elongate the holes that the table mounts to with a rat tail file. This worked and I have the slots adjusted to .006 in. I think I can get it closer, but will have to file the holes a little more. Despite all this hassle, I still love the saw. I don't care much for the designers or customer service. I can't imagine how this could be overlooked. It's as if it was intentional so buyers would be forced to pay for maintenance in the future. And how could customer service not know about the adjustment issue? Maybe they do and that is why they tap dance around the issue and simply hang up when that doesn't work? And I confirmed through two service centers that the saw is not made by Porter Cable. I'm very disappointed with the company. I will probably keep the saw until it falls apart, or I can afford an upgrade, but unless they make some real changes, or just man-up and apoligize, no more Porter Cable for me.


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## n8er (Apr 27, 2011)

i also have this saw and would like to convert it to 220V. the rewiring seems pretty straight forward but the manual makes no mention of changing the plug and power cord. is this correct? can i use the same cord and plug that it comes with or do i need to switch one or both? thanks for the help.


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## Wodbug (Feb 22, 2011)

Howdy n8er,
The plug should be replaced with a 15amp 220v plug and it can be purchased at most hardware and home stores. Hitachi said ok to use original power cord. If you already have a 220v outlet in your shop, then match the new plug to the 220v outlet.
I measured amperage while the saw was under heavy load, ripping a 2×4 oak board. Maximum amps measured = 9 amps. Not bad under that load and no slowing of rpm's. Have fun, be safe and wear your safety stuff.


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## marvinlee (May 28, 2012)

> Thanks for posting your review.
> 
> I have no doubt that the saw performs better wired for 220v, however, if Hitachi told you it produces 3hp just from rewiring for 220v, they lied to you (whether intentionally or out of ignorance).
> 
> ...


 Some motor installations do produce more power on 240 volts. I can occur when the 240 volt power supply is not overstressed and the 120 volt supply is. Long cable runs, competing electrical draws, or marginal wiring on the 120 volt circuit can affect achieved power. That said, I agree that most dual voltage motors should not inherently produce more power on 240 volts. Electric motor engineers, are there any exceptions?


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## Zanexx (Feb 16, 2020)

I see this is a really old posting and I hope some of the guys that have posted here are still around. First post, fairly new to woodworking. Been a tool junkie forever. Anyway, I just ran across what I thought was a good deal on a C10FL and picked it up for $175. Thats a good price in my area, most guys are getting around $300 for theirs and I doubt there in this good of condition. The first thing I wanna do is switch it to 220 and wanted to see if anyone had any tips on how to do such a thing. I can figure it out but a little insight from someone whos done it never hurts. The only thing I've found wrong so far is the casters need some adjusting or reworked, not a big deal. 
I know some guys on here complained about the fence and a couple minor things, but going from that piece of garbage Skil TS I've had for the last 4 years I am in paradise with how well this thing operates. 
Oh and I've gotta pickup a zero clearance insert asap too, any recommendations on retailers? 
Thanks in advance for any help and tips. 
Zanexx


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