# Coarse, Medium & Fine Hand Planes for a Newbie



## HarveyDunn (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm a novice woodworker. I'm looking for a low-cost way to get a coarse, medium & fine hand plane for squaring up my boards and then perfecting the surface so I can do as little sanding as possible (I work in a spare room inside the house, so sawdust is a huge issue. Wispy shavings, not so much.)

I know the standard recommendation is to buy vintage Stanleys on eBay. My research tells me that I'd be happy with a #5 as my fore plane (i.e. my "coarse"), a #7 as my jointer (i.e. my "medium"), and a #3 or #4 as my smoother (i.e. my "fine").

Unfortunately, eBay isn't quite the bargain wonderland that I had hoped it would be. Those three planes would cost around $200 by the time shipping is included. And what will I actually find when the box arrives? Since I don't have a well-equipped shop, if there is anything wrong with any of them that needs fixing, I'll have to spend additional money on tools and supplies to get them up-to-scratch. And, to be honest: I'm not completely sure that I'd really know what I'm doing, no matter how many blog posts I read.

I did find a used tool dealer who said he could set me with all three in "good working order" for $250, which I thought was fair. The best he could say about the dates was they would all be pre-1970.

There is another option: a brand new WoodRiver No. 5 with three blades. One with a major camber for coarse, one with a minor camber for medium, and one with a slight camber for fine. Woodcraft is having a sale, so I can get it all for $180, delivered.

But I don't own a grinding wheel, or any diamond, water or oil stones. I do have a piece of float glass and a cheap honing guide for "scary sharp". Can I camber a blade with just that (and maybe a file?)

And input about any of these ideas, or any better ideas?

There was an article in FWW Jan/Feb '11 about using a LN 62 LA Jack with FOUR different blades - one was angled specifically for end grain and use with a shooting board. Total cost at current prices: $390. Out of my league, but it does make me wonder if I need to think about a four blade for the WoodRiver, or a fourth vintage plane if I decide to go that route.


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## Tedstor (Mar 12, 2011)

Just to complicate things…...I'll recommend you add a block plane to that list.

Google-Brass City Records and check out Walt's tool selection. I'm thinking you could get everything you needed, including a block plane, for $200ish. And its a safe bet that the planes you recieve would need minimal tune-up. I've ordered several tools from BCR, and they've all been virtually ready-to-use upon delivery. Give Walt a call and tell him what your trying to do. He'll hook you up.

Having one plane and various blades seems too fussy for me. And blades cost $30+ each, so the savings might not be overly significant compared to buying old Stanleys. I'm not the biggest hand tool user, so others might disagree, but I'm thinking you'd be better served with a smoother, jointer, and a block plane. And I feel you should buy the block plane first. I don't personally deal with a lot of long boards, so I don't even have a jointer. I get by with a jack plane.


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## HarveyDunn (Aug 29, 2013)

Thanks Tedstor. For which tasks do I need the block plane?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Take a read here, https://timetestedtools.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/what-planes-do-i-need/


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## Tedstor (Mar 12, 2011)

I use my block plane multiple times, on virtually every project. Cleaning-up joints mostly. Chamfering/shaping edges too. Pretty much anytime a larger plane would be impractical…..which is often.


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## Tedstor (Mar 12, 2011)

Don's link sums it up well.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

I do not like what your tool dealer offered you from both an age and a price perspective. Think you have not found the right dealer. If you like, I could start suggesting handplanes on ebay for you to consider.

You are looking for planes that are from about 1910 to 1940.


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

You can certainly sharpen an iron with a guide and a pile of sandpaper but what I think you will be missing by not tuning up a plane by yourself is the inner working of the tool.

Until I totally took one apart, fussed with all the settings, and put it back together I couldn't understand what made it work and more importantly, what made it not work. There isn't a ton of moving parts inside and outside of a plane but there are enough that one errant miscalculation can lead to frustration.

If you would like, Id like you to spend your money elsewhere. You PM me where I can send it and ill ship you out a Millers Falls 14 jack plane (equivalent to a #5). Its been mostly derusted of the heavy stuff but does have a little surface rust on it from me not treating it right after its initial bath. Its in very good shape but does need the sole flattened, the iron sharpened, and the frog and chipbreaker dialed in. I can even post you a pic tonight if youd like.

We (LJ's) will walk you through the restoration / refurb step by step if you need the help. We're nothing but a bunch of enablers any way.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Here is a good example of a #3

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1925-1928-Stanley-Bailey-3-Wood-Plane-Type-13-Sweetheart-Blade-/310774911903?pt=US_Hand_Tools&hash=item485ba0d39f


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

We're nothing but a bunch of enablers any way.

Well said!!


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Here is a #5 that would be a good restore candidate…

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-Bailey-Wood-Plane-No-5-Patd-Date-/121199350601?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c380b5349


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Good example of a restore-able #4.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Stanley-Bailey-No-4-Wood-Plane-with-Patd-Dates-of-1902-and-1910-/350901680138?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51b35eb80a


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Good example of a #7

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VTG-DATED-BAILEYS-7-PLANE-CORRAGATED-BOTTOM-ROSEWOOD-HANDLES-/171158292689?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d9d448d1


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Example low angle block plane

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MILLER-FALLS-NO-56-LOW-ANGLE-BLOCK-PLANE-LIKE-STANLEY-VINTAGE-TO-RESTORE-/181245160579?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a330dac83


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

LOL. Done enabling


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

I put out this offer in the Handplanes of Your Dreams thread, but to reiterate, I have a very nice Millers Falls #9B smoother (same size as a Stanley #4) that is yours for the asking, just PM me an address. With that and chrisstef's offer for a jack, you would be well on your way.

Edit: This one is tuned up and ready to go, so you would have something to compare the jack to as you worked it over.


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## MrFid (Mar 9, 2013)

Yeah I'd stay away from the 3 in 1 WoodRiver approach. Not that they are bad planes by my estimation… I have their smoother #4 and use it as my go-to smoother. I just think that you'll get real tired of changing/redialing-in blades real fast. For me, it's a lot easier to grab a new plane (that is the right size for the chore, by the way) that already is tuned for what I want it to do than to readjust mouth openings, blade depths, and laterals again and again. Also, block planes are boss. You may not see why until you own one, but then you'll be reaching for it often.
ALSO, if you're doing flattening of stock, make sure your sharpening system is good. Scary sharp or anything else you decide on. This cannot be overstated. Planing with dull blades is no fun, and they dull quickly if you're milling stock. Also, restoring a plane doesn't have to take much in the way of tooling. Tons of blogs out there (including my crappily written one here on LJs). Good luck!


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## HarveyDunn (Aug 29, 2013)

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and the tremendously kind offers. I'll be following up on them with PM's, but I've got another question that I thought would be best thrown out in public, so that others can learn from it as well: how much equipment is required to rehabilitate a vintage plane? For example, I don't have a grinder and don't really want to get one because I would have no place to put it. What would the list of tools and supplies needed look like?


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## HarveyDunn (Aug 29, 2013)

Also: block plane. Low angle or not? Vintage or not?


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

Yeah, Don's summary is perfect.

If you fix up old ones you'll know how everything works, which is great. You do have to put in time and $. How much of each varies, but there's no way around that. And once you're in the world of hand planes, you're never getting out.

Forewarned:


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

What would the list of tools and supplies needed look like?

For the answer to your question, young padawan, seek the wisdom of the almighty master of the hand plane force, Don Yoda. Here is a good starting point.

Keep in mind that any task can be done mutiple ways. A bench grinder with wire wheel is nice, but not necessary. Wire brush, a scraper of some kind (old chisels work great) some sandpaper and a flat surface will get you most of the way there.

Oh yeah, welcome too the slippery slope, there is no turning back now.

Edit: Here is another good reference for tuning a plane.


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## kaerlighedsbamsen (Sep 16, 2013)

Gotta love LJ: A man asks about getting started on handplanes and suddenly he is offered some fine ones for free. Now THAT is good style!
Other than that- if you want to buy consider wooden planes. They are relatively cheap, easy to fix with the tools you have, easy to set up and planes beautifully. And with less effort than a metal plane.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

From my blog which is quite old

Lap Plate - used to lap the sole and sides of a plane
- Plastic Laminate - speeds the process
- Heavy Plate Glass - flat surface
- Contact Cement
- Laminate Roller

Or a piece of marble long enough for the sole of the plane. Lapping is only needed if sole is not flat.

Lee Valley also sells a glass plate and plastic that adheres to the plate
Other alternatives include using sandpaper on a granite plate or on a flat surface such as a table saw wing or jointer bed

Grit for sole and sides
- Emery paper or wet/dry sandpaper
- Silicon carbide abrasive 60 Grit (powder) - An option but would stay away from it

I ordered some Grit from lee valley and also found some locally at a lapidary supply house.
Also you could use 60 or 80 grit sandpaper.

Abrasives for cleaning metal parts
- Coarse, medium and fine abrasive blocks
- 120 Grit Emery Paper

General cleaning
- Scotch bright
- Alcohol (Denatured)

Finishing
- White Shellac
- Orange Shellac

Other
- Squeeze bottle for alcohol
- Paraffin

Sharpening
- Honing guide
- Angle gauge
- Water Stones or sandpaper for scary sharp
- May want to consider a Worksharp in the future.

You would also need some form of bench to hold the workpiece. Shooting board, bench hooks and planing stops are good things to make.


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## JohnChung (Sep 20, 2012)

Harvey - I would suggest you check on Paul Seller and his videos on youtube. You can start on Stanley #4 before spending more money on hand planes. If you do like them then jack,block and jointer planes are the next step to go.

For sharpening you can start with scary sharp then progress to waterstones. Try these out first before leaping further into more shavings.  For handplanes you need to learn how to sharpen well too…..


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## TerryDowning (Aug 8, 2012)

Nice graphic Travis!!

I have both a MF #9 and #14 these are fine planes that could be tuned to perform exquisitely.

I recommend taking up Stef and JayT on their offers, this will get off to a great start. The 14 can even be used to joint smaller pieces.

Check out this Buck Bros iron from the big orange box, it's OK steel you can practice sharpening on that and practice getting it set up for a camber. at $3 you can do whatever you want to it and not risk messing up a vintage blade. That 2" iron will fit both the #9 and the #14. I have 3 now, 1 flat, 1 cambered and 1 back beveled 10 degrees to make for a 55 degree cutting angle (Not as effective as a true high angle pitch, but it does help in tricky grain.)


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

If your not worried about repainting, just tuning, you can flatten the sole on almost any flat surface with sandpaper, you can flatten the frog with a file. This blog is just tuning. Read it and ask any questions.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Vintage vs new on the low angle block plane is a matter of choice and preference. I have both LN and vintage planes. Both work very well. Lee Valley also makes some nice new block planes. Would stay away from new Stanleys. Not played with the Windriver or other mid range planes.

My favorite block plane is a vintage Stanley #65 knuckle block with a Hock blade in it. Interesting given I own several LN block planes as well.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I agree with what Wayne wrote. I will add that it doesn't necessarily need to be low angle. There are many guys here that swear by a Stanley #18.

And to give one more option. I along with Dave (sikrap) and Wayne sometime if he has extra's will sell as found planes. They will need tuning and maybe restoring, but you know you're not missing parts, you won't have a cracked mouth, and if the iron is pitted, you'll know before it shows up at your door.


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## LukieB (Jan 8, 2012)

This guy also restores, tunes and sells planes via Ebay…...OK it's me, and this is shameless self promotion : )

All my planes are tuned to the point of making full width, see-through shavings, and are ready to go out of the box with no suprises (Like Don W said, cracked mouths, pitted blades, missing parts,)

While I agree with Stef and the guys about getting to know/understand the planes. I also understand the desire to skip the metal working and get to the woodworking without blowing the budget.

My prices reflect the outrageous Ebay, and Paypal seller fees, along with the free shipping I offer. But I am always looking to leave Ebay out of the loop and deal directly with my fellow Lumberjocks. I have quite a few listed right now and would be willing to "bundle and save"

But I could probably get you 3 fully restored,pre 1950 planes, delivered for pretty close to the $250 you spoke of above.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Sorry Lukie, didn't mean to leave you out!!


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## natenaaron (Jun 24, 2013)

I have rehabbed one plane and in the process of the next. All really need is a long flat surface, different grades of sand paper, lubrication (I used wd 40, and mineral oil.) Yes you could do it perfect with a file, dye, big vise and time. Lots of places on you tube can help, lots of places on the net are good also. The hardest part is getting started. It is kind of therapeutic (SP). Just remember to stop when you are getting impatient, then come back when you have calmed down. I think this goes for anything though, not just tool rehab.

Have fun.

Edit: If you are like me and and cannot afford much, learn patience. I rehabbed my number 5, scored a killer #4 that was ready to go out of the box off ebay, and picked up my jointer here. I got the three for less than 150. The only thing I am missing is a block plane for the right price. It only took me 6 months to put this together, if you don't count the 3 years the #5 sat on a shelf in the shop. I don't count it because I was not keen on hand tools then. Deals are ut there to be had, you just have to wait, stalk, and pounce when the opportunity arises.


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## HarveyDunn (Aug 29, 2013)

Hi guys,

I'm working my way through the suggested readings on restoring a plane.

1) I don't have or need a battery charger, so I think I won't build an electrolysis station to remove rust. There is the chemical solution called "Evaporust". But is it too toxic to do indoors?
2) Repainting/rejapanning is also not in the cards. Therefore, what alternative would be the most straightforward way of the protecting the metal?
3) I have never done any metalwork of any kind, so when I read a comment like "Wire brush the top side and polish" I am confused. Does that mean just give it a going over with brass bristle brush like you can get in at the BORG? Or is it a special tool, or even something you do on a wheel? As mentioned previously, I don't have a grinding wheel and would prefer to not have to buy one.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

1.evaporust is very safe. You can also use citric acid, which is food, vinegar works, all kinds of nontoxic ways.
2.Oil or wax. Either works fine. Oil inside and wax outside. All kinds of ways to skin this cat. 
3.This isn't even a necessity if you chose not to. You can use wd-40 or penetrating oil and steel wool or scotch bride pads. A small wire brush in a cordless drill will work as well.

You'll only need to derust if there is a lot of rust. Sometimes you can just sand a few spots or wire brush (yes in a cordless drill will work) and be done. It really depends on the plane condition.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I should have noted, if you're only doing one or two planes, I wouldn't even think about electrolysis. Its to much setup.


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

1) Evaporust - completely neutral PH. Totally safe indoors, safe to dunk your hands in it. I wouldn't mix it with vodka though. just because itll ruin the vodka

2) I don't repaint any of my planes, I like the way they look even with chipped jappaning and all. No real need to repaint it unless you want the look. To protect my planes I use paste wax on the sides and the sole.

3) You could get a wire wheel attachment for a drill or forego it entirely. Whats worked for me is a drywall sanding sponge. After a good soak in the evaporust I pull out the plane and scrub it with that sponge, then use a bit of wd40 on the plane to prevent flash rusting. Doen after that.

It all depends on what you want it to look like in the end Harvey. If you want it to look fresh out of the box new, youre gonna need those wire hweels and such. If you just want it to work and look halfway decent, theyre not required.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

1. Evapo-rust be ok inside. You could also use citric acid (found in brewery supply stores)
2. I never repaint my planes. You can use 3 in 1 oil or paste wax to protect the metal surfaces. If you want a coating over the body where the japanning is use Shellac. 
3. Just use sanding blocks for the metal parts of the body. Tooth brush and metal polish for brass threads and such.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

LOL. We are all posting at the same time.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

well, at least we all agree. Although I'm not sure about the vodka reference.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

He was just using it wrong. You drink the vodka straight out of the bottle while you watch your plane de-rust.


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## LukieB (Jan 8, 2012)

I fear that Stef speaks from experience on the Evapo-cocktail, bless his heart.

One more +1 on Evaporust not only being safe, but working as advertised. The stuff is awesome.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

by awesome Lukie means works well. It taste like crap even mixed with vodka!!


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## 12strings (Nov 15, 2011)

I'll give my second (or is it the thirtieth) to the fact that for the money, you can't beat vintage: 
I found my Stanley #5, Wooden Jointer, and Stanley #3 (in that order) for under $60 TOTAL!!! They all took some work, but I'm pretty much set now. Just need a rabbet plane.

Find a Granite Counter-top store and they will probably have some 2-foot sections of granite for cheap or free to help you tune up the soles of the planes (with sandpaper).

I consider myself a minimalist, not interested in amassing numbers of planes at all, but even I wouldn't want to have just one plane and keep switching blades and re-setting mouth openings all the time…no matter how good that one plane was. 3-4 different one's will serve you much better.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Harvey have you started an overall hand tool list? Measuring and marking, chisels, saws, hand drills, etc?


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## HarveyDunn (Aug 29, 2013)

Yes, just working and halfway decent looking is all I want for now.

WayneC, yes I have got such a list, and it is all coming together except for the planes. Other than that, the thing I'm having trouble with is a panel gauge. Which I think of as the tool you need to mark you boards when your marking gauge isn't big enough to do the job. The ones I've found via Google are far too expensive for my tastes. I wonder - does this object have a different, more common name?


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Panel gauge is the correct name. You could easily make one….

Here is a LJ project showing one…

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/58600

Here is a good PDF…
http://d2amilv9vi9flo.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/0612_Marking_Gauge.pdf


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

Please if working inside some form of vacuum extraction would be a welcome addition to make your life easier and more enjoyable.IMHO Alistair


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## TerryDowning (Aug 8, 2012)

Slip sliding away..
Slip sliding away..

You know the nearer your destination the more you're Slip sliding away..


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

Some good advice here, except only one person mentioned getting slabs of granite from a granite countertop/tile place. Just find a countertop fabrication shop (go into a tile place and ask where their shop is (assuming it isn't in the same location). Tell them you need some sink cutouts for your kid's science project or something like that. They'll be only too happy to help, since they just throw those things away.

Go to the fabrication shop with a six pack of beer (optional) and ask them if you can dig through their cutoffs or their dumpster. Pick out a polished piece of granite (best), marble (not as good but still ok), or manmade stone (also ok) that's about two or three feet long and at least six inches wide.

Alternatively, you could go to the fab shop at night and just dig through the dumpster yourself, though obviously this is a little sketchier.

Above all, never, never, *never* pay for a piece of stone or glass to lap plane soles on. Complete waste of money.

Other stuff you may or may not need, just off the top of my head:

- Honing guide ($12 or so)
- Sandpaper (get in online, much cheaper) in 60/80/150ish/220 grit. Belt sander belts work nicely, so long as you cut out the seam
- Spray adhesive to stick sandpaper to the piece of granite you got for free
- Lubrication (3 in 1 oil, WD40, etc)
- Penetrating oil (helps loosen rusted/frozen screws, optional depending on what you're restoring)
- 1 gallon Evapo-rust (dead useful, safe, doesn't stink, can be re-used over and over and over)
- Angle setting jig (make your own from here )
- Waterstone (for sharpening, just buy one, you'll need it)
- Various wire brushes (buy the variety pack at harbor freight for $2)
- Some sort of cleaner/degreaser (simple green or similar)
- An old toothbrush (for cleaning hard to reach places)
- A sharpie

The most expensive thing in that list is probably the waterstone, which will run about $40 for a 1000/6000 combo stone. The rest of it is pretty cheap stuff and you probably have some of it already.


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## paratrooper34 (Apr 27, 2010)

Harvey, I second Wayne's suggestion to make your own panel gauge. I made my own and I think it cost, at most, three or four dollars. You can see it in my projects. I have a few tools that I made myself at this point and they are great little tools that saved me a lot of money. Making your own tools when you can, helps build your skills, supplies you with necessary tools, and saves bundles of money. And there is a lot to be said about the pride you will feel of building a functional tool that you can hand down to someone someday.


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## sikrap (Mar 15, 2009)

I thought I'd jump in here. I don't use any electrolysis, citric acid or Evaporust when I'm rehabbing a plane. I use WD-40 and ScotchBrite pads (maroon and grey). Yes, its more labor intensive, but I can take off as much or as little patina as I want and I'm done in 15-30 minutes. I also use a degreaser called "L.A. Totally Awesome Degreaser" which I buy at the $.99 store, a toothbrush and, when necessary, some dental pics I found. For lapping a sole, I stick some 80/150/220 strips of sandpaper on a melamine board. (Note; do NOT buy the sandpaper belts at HF, they are crap). All in all, it takes me about an hour to rehab the plane and then get started on the iron. You can buy all the materials I've mentioned for about $30 and that includes the sanding belts and melamine. I don't restore planes, I rehab them. I get them clean, tuned and sharpened. That's it. Sharpening is a whole different discussion


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## HarveyDunn (Aug 29, 2013)

That's very helpful, thanks. There seems to be some disagreement about the need for lapping the sole. From what I gather, some think it isn't necessary at all for the coarse planes and possibly not the mediums eithers; for the fine, it is only necessary that the area around the mouth. Thoughts?


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## Tedstor (Mar 12, 2011)

Definite diagreement. Some people lap soles to within NASA/Aerospace specifications. Other people, like myself, lap them until they are good 'nuff. And some people don't lap them at all. I don't personally believe there is a "right" answer. Some people will swear that flattening their sole to within .00001" makes a HUGE difference over a sole thats only within .0001". I dunno. I've never bothered to gauge the flatness of my planes. I tune them up, sharpen the blade, and put them to work. If they perform well…..they must be flat enough. If they don't. I might lap them some more. I don't get too OCD over my tools. Its pretty much a pass/fail test in my world.

I lap mine on sandpaper, adhered to a piece of granite. Once the sole is flat enough, to where all parts of the plane's sole are making contact with the (220) sandpaper…....I call it good 'nuff. Usually doesn't take long. 
But admittedly, I've only lapped 5-6 planes, so my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.


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## sikrap (Mar 15, 2009)

IMHO, it depends on the plane. A scrub plane doesn't need to be anywhere near as flat as a smoother. The reality is that as long as a smoother (or jointer) is "on plane" at the toe, just before/behind the mouth, and at the tail its fine.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

what Dave said…...


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

My two cents. There tends to be too much lapping and over cleaning/painting of planes. I believe if your plane is 100 years old, it should retain it's history. (not saying rust and signs of neglect)

You should lap a plane if it is not flat or square. Check it with a good straight edge and machinist's square. Similar to what Dave says, it matters more as to what you are trying to do. Course planes take big cuts and are not accurate tools. No need to lap. If your jointer is off, are your boards going to be flat? If your smoother is not flat, how easy is it going to be to achieve a 2/1000 shaving.

I tend to clean, remove rust, fettle and try the plane. If I cannot take a fine shaving, then I start looking for deeper issues. Most time lapping is not needed.

When I hunt for old tools at the flea markets, I carry a back pack with a tape measure, machinist's square and magnifying glass (older eyes). If your shopping in an antique store and your considering buying a plane. Set it on top of a glass display case. If it is rocks, put it back.


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

^^ What Dave, Don & Wayne said.

I've gotten to the point where I pretty much only lap for a few reasons:


the area in front of the mouth is low
there is significant enough & uneven wear to really affect use (seen frequently on well used jointers)
to remove some light corrosion. Lapping to keep it flat instead of attacking just the rusty areas.

Otherwise, I just clean and wax the sole and start making shavings.


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## BAM157 (Sep 3, 2013)

If you take the granite counter top cut off route , please be sure to check the surface with a straight edge. I have yet to find a narrow piece that doesn't have an end that curves too much. On those you can always stay within the flat area and flatten the back of your blades and chisels but you don't want to waste your time , sandpaper and sweat trying to flatten the sole of a plane on it. I have a piece that's roughly 2 1/2' square and use all of it ( multiple strips of PSA roll sandpaper) except for one corner where it dips too heavily. Check the plane with a decent straight edge continually when flattening it's sole especially while using course grits of sandpaper. Not every plane needs lapping , get the blade and chip breaker done well (this can take the longest). Also remove the frog to make sure the mating surface of the frog and where it sits in the sole are nice & clean , no dirt , debris or rust. I almost always find lots of junk jammed in , around and under the bottom of the frog. Put it all back together and be sure set the frog so it's straight, don't rely on the frog adjusting screw on Stanley planes to move the frog forward or back evenly, keep it straight while tightening down the screws that hold the frog in place. Give a it go , if you think you have the blade and everything else done well and proper but it still doesn't feel right or a smoother won't give you a nice thin shaving , then it's time to look at the sole more carefully. I usually find the worst soles on type 19's, looks like they held them on a cheap chinese made belt sander clamped upside down in a vise. These I would expect to spent more time lapping. Best to avoid type 20's (blue paint ) if you can as Stanley's quality seems totally gone by then, but I wouldn't pass up a blue Stanley 60 1/2 or 9 1/2 block plane if it's in good shape and cheap. They're small, the cast iron is softer and any lapping that needs to be done goes fairly quickly.


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## HarveyDunn (Aug 29, 2013)

Thanks. I've been wondering if any man-made countertop materials offer the degree of flatness needed. Any ideas?


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## BAM157 (Sep 3, 2013)

Unless you get a hold of a machinist's granite plate it won't be perfectly flat (even those come in different grades I believe) but you don't really need that . Just find something that's close to flat. Some people will put PSA sandpaper on their table saw or jointer's top but I don't like the idea of doing that. Just check the flatness of whatever you find and use the best of it. If I looked at the narrow pieces I had only be eye , they looked fine to me but in use they weren't helping, one plane was getting worse. A straight edge showed me why. The large piece I have is not perfectly flat but it's just fine for flattening a plane sole as long as I stay away from the one corner. NASA's not going to be using your hand plane to make a shuttle or rocket. We don't require that degree of accuracy for our hand planes to work correctly. Try cleaning up, sharpening and adjusting a plane before lapping the sole, they don't all need it. If you do lap a plane , have your shop vac close by to vacuum up the dust and clean to off the sandpaper frequently. A short time of blowing or brushing the cast iron dust of my sandpaper ,especially indoors, leaves me feeling sick and my chest feeling heavy until the following day. Best to avoid inhaling metal dust.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*"...Thanks. I've been wondering if any man-made countertop materials offer the degree of flatness needed…."*

I used sandpaper on a 12in black granite tile from the local HD that cost me ~$3.50


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## kiyoshigawa (Aug 30, 2013)

I can second the 12" black granite tile is as flat as I can verify (I have some machined 1-2-3 blocks I use to check for flat over small areas) and has been used on all my planed for lapping as required to date. It't flat enough that my straight edges show no light on freshly lapped plane soles.


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## TerryDowning (Aug 8, 2012)

If I can't see light between my machinists square and a "flat" surface, it's flat enough. I have yet to find a granite tile or cutoff that did not pass this rather simple test.

Micrometers are for machinists, I'm a wood worker any tolerance tighter than the wood movement that can naturally occur is too tight for me to worry about.

I have a granite cutoff I use for flattening/lapping using various grits of sand paper and 3M spray adhesive to fasten the paper to the slab. I use the sharpie approach when flattening smooth planes once the sharpie marks are gone, it's flat enough.


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## Hammerthumb (Dec 28, 2012)

I agree with what Brian says about the granite. Absolute Black is my choice. Stay away from green stones as they have a tendancy to warp (warp to the point that we usually apply epoxy to the bottom side of tiles prior to applying them with thinset). Most marble I find to be too soft, so stay with the granite and check it for flatness. Man made stone like Caesarstone and Silestone are mostly made of quarts and about 2 to 4% resin binder. I have had these shipped to me warped before, so check them if that is what you are going to use.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

There are also some long and narrow tiles available. For example this one is 36" x 4".










http://www.lowes.com/pd_197792-74035-G40343658DHSX1L_4294856521__?productId=3556446&Ntt=36+inch&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3D36%2Binch&facetInfo=


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## HarveyDunn (Aug 29, 2013)

Thanks. I think someone once told me that the darker a granite is, the harder it is. Is that true? Does it also correlate with flatness? What about brittleness? I guess at these prices it isn't the end of the world if I break it - I just go to the store and get another. Even so, it would be nice to know. Right now I've got a big chunk of float glass and I can totally see me breaking it some day and creating a really mess.


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## Hammerthumb (Dec 28, 2012)

Usually the more black there is in granite, the harder it is. Less grain in it, the flatter it stays. Absolute Black granite is one of the most common granites you will find in the US. It is very fine grained without any grain pattern or veining or flecking. It is very hard and will stay flat.


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## BAM157 (Sep 3, 2013)

Never thought about different colors of granite being different hardness's. The smaller pieces I had were tan in overall color and my large piece is black.


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## TerryDowning (Aug 8, 2012)

If you already have the glass, then just make a wood base for it.

Make a panel larger than your glass. Either remove material the thickness of your glass or frame around the glass with thinner stock to protect the glass and keep it from breaking.


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## Hammerthumb (Dec 28, 2012)

Its not that the tan pieces are not hard. If it is granite, it is hard. But there is a difference in the speed that it will cut using diamond blades. Any granite is going to be harder than limestone or marble. Not saying dont use your tan granite, just saying that granite is a better choice than marble. Regardless, you must make sure it is flat, no matter what color it is.


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## BAM157 (Sep 3, 2013)

Paul Seller's method of flattening


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