# Large Sugar Maple Project - Throw in the towel?? Lots of pics



## Tblood (Apr 19, 2015)

Hi ladies and gents. I hate to say, it but I'm afraid I've reached the point where I'm close to throwing in the towel on a project… Hit a brick wall. I am hoping a little advice, inspiration, and networking from the experienced wood workers here will point me in the right direction!

The project started when I had to take down two sugar maples in front of an old farm house I own and rent out in northeast Ohio. These two trees have a lot of history with my family. The house was built in 1832 and we have diaries mentioning the trees being fully grown before the house was built. Nearly everyone in my family lived in this house at some point. The goal is to cut full length live edge slabs for long tables, counter tops, etc and give them to my family. The tree to be milled is closest to the camera. The other was pretty hollow.









The trees came down late January on short notice and I've been scrambling to find someone who can handle the milling… Trouble is the tree is 33-36 inches at the base and closer to 41in about 5-6ft up. It's a little over 10ft to the crotch. I would love to include the crotch and a little beyond since it looks like some cool grain may be there. After calling dozens of mills and hardwood/lumber stores I have yet to find anyone capable of cutting full length live edge slabs. At least not in Ohio… I have the means to load and haul the tree and am willing to travel a fair distance. 50-80miles? I've thought about chainsaw mills but don't have any experience. Worst part is that my grandpa has an older 28" Wood Mizer mill 100 yards away… Just not big enough! 



































Knowing we've hung things from the tree over the years, I took a metal detector to it and found a few hits. I marked them orange to find again when temps warmed up. I've since got the metal out of each mark I found. I have a few new leads on Amish mills in the area but would appreciate any and all info regarding a place that could handle this beast! Please!

My next question is whether or not this log will make all the effort worthwhile…aside from sentimental value. Can anyone tell if there is potential for nice figure or grain patterns? Could I crack this open and find a dud? There are a number of tap points, compression/tension points and small burls from old branches. Hard to tell in the pics but there really isn't a single flat area on it. What do you think?? It's over 200yrs old… There has to be something cool, right?
































My helper. 









Thanks for reading and any help in advance!

-TC


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Around me the mills that can handle a tree that size won't do "yard" trees because of the metal. Woodmizer guys that do yard trees (at least the one I used) made it clear that a ruined blade was on my dime. OK, that a manageable expense, but multiply that cost by a whole lot when your going to the larger mills. I wish you luck finding a way to slab it, but maybe a backup plan would be to cut cookies from the tree and use them for the keepsake pieces? No opinion of what's underneath the bark…but I know my favorite maple to use is soft maple, it almost always has more character than hard maple. It's about as hard as cherry as well on the Janka scale.


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## Ben322 (Apr 17, 2015)

I'll help with inspiration! No way I would throw in the towel.


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## Tblood (Apr 19, 2015)

Thanks guys. I know what you mean regarding the bigger mills. Seems that most mills large enough to handle a tree this large are more into production. They don't want to bother with a one-off yard tree. The mills willing to do some custom milling can't handle a tree this large. The backup plan is a good notion… Just trying to avoid that as much as possible! Most of the trees I have that are this large are still standing. Hate to waste an opportunity with one that had to come down.

I'm not giving up quite yet, Ben! But, the list of options is getting dangerously short.

Assuming I find a mill able to cut it, how concerned should I be regarding their skill as a sawyer? I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth so to speak… But I don't want to turn it over to someone who is going to wreck it either. Any red flags or bad ideas I should look out for when talking to a sawyer?

Thanks again


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

Perhaps you could get it done using an Alaska mill. I've seen videos of guys using them with really long bars. It's a two man job on something that big. It might cost a bit to get the mill and chainsaw, but hey it's only money!


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Ask to see some of his work.
Around, me you'll never find anyone to saw it they just don't want to mess with trees from a yard or along a fence line. That's even if you agree to buy a blade.

The one guy who has a circular saw mill won't even talk to you.

I think you're in a bit of a spot not just because of the size.

If you're lucky you can find an old retired sawyer maybe who can look at the tree and advise you.

I'm not an expert, but looking at it, I'm thinking you've got to bust it open some how to see what you've got. Maybe with a chainsaw…..

Good luck


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## Timberwerks (Sep 29, 2009)

I would do it. I've milled many large Maples like that with fantastic color & grain inside.


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## Timberwerks (Sep 29, 2009)

52" Maple from just a month ago.


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

Take these words of wisdom from a fight fan and avid wood worker: There is no respect for throwing in the towel.

You fight until you are KO'd, your arm is snapped or you are choked unconscious. No Tapping, Pablo! With that attitude you will never get the belt, you will never get a title shot. You will be a mid-tier gate keeper who will be just another hi-lighted, hyperlinked name on Sherdog.com who is remembered as "that guy" [Insert: snickers and laughs].

NO!
We can not accept this. Back to your 8 week training camp.

Get the gloves on. 
-Jab, hook-
Hit the mat
-reversal and you get the choke sunk in-

Warriors do not tap!

Also, Just find out how much the woodmizer blade is and prepare to blow that much. Use a metal detector to make sure there are no surface nails. If there is a chance of steel shot or barbed wire having grown into the tree then all bets are off.

Vegas odds on TBlood are looking much better.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Sir Irb

There's a lot of sawyers who won't cut the wood even if you hand them 6 new blades.


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## HerbC (Jul 28, 2010)

You might want to check with a member of the forestryforum.com site named Logboy. He cut large slabs using a Peterson sawmill. He's in Wisconsin but might be able to help you.


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## Ben322 (Apr 17, 2015)

Sirlb, I think after that post I could saw that tree with a hack saw! Splitting with a chainsaw might be an option then using your 28" sawmill?Your tree has the potential to produce some beautiful slabs. Again I say if there's a will theres a way!


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## Woodendeavor (Apr 7, 2011)

There are guys out there. I just took a silver leaf maple from my front yard in and had that slabbed up. We had to cut all 4 sides to get it through the mill but I think it was worth it.









and this is just the butt log


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

I have a friend back home in SoMs who saws whatever trees you throw at him. Wood Mizer owners who throw a fit over the possibility of the tree having steel in it (and it is their prerogative to do so) will loose out to those who dont, so says the Market.

You only live once, Gnaw that tree into slabs with your teeth and make something perdy.


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## Yonak (Mar 27, 2014)

Wow !! Did you find that dog inside when you cut the tree ?


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## rustfever (May 3, 2009)

Contact Woodmizer factory. Ask for names/address/phone #'s of those mills in your area that have the new, larger bandmill. Interview those sawyers. Ask lots of questions, such as those issues within the replies above. Make a decision. Plan on spending a bit of money. Enjoy forever, the tree with all of the memories.

'Luv a duh life…Luv a duh wood!


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## BroncoBrian (Jan 14, 2013)

Better get started. I'll take the other side.


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

Yeah, you could rip it with a pit saw, if you can find anybody game enough to get underneath it in the pit and tireless enough to make it through the job.

You might have to get a small crane to maneuver it.

I've got a 40" white oak down in my yard for 4 years now that I'd still like to see what's inside.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=pit+saw&qpvt=pit+saw&qpvt=pit+saw&FORM=IGRE

-Paul


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

Or you might try a granite mill. I wonder if their stone saws would do the trick.

-Paul


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## Woodmaster1 (Apr 26, 2011)

Look into a chainsaw mill. Watch Matt Cremona YouTube video on using his chainsaw mill. It might work for you.


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## GregInMaryland (Mar 11, 2010)

> There are guys out there. I just took a silver leaf maple from my front yard in and had that slabbed up. We had to cut all 4 sides to get it through the mill but I think it was worth it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Anything else in your front yard?

Greg


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## logboy73 (Jul 23, 2009)

Where are you located? I slab logs your size and larger all the time with my Lucas slabber. And for those of us with the experience, you can work around metal in the trees. I just did a 52" silver maple log on Friday for one of my regulars. It had a couple nails in it, no big deal.










Find someone in your area who does slabbing. A portable bandsaw cant handle stuff that large. You'll need someone with either a Lucas or Peterson slabber.


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## Beams37 (Feb 21, 2015)

This is amazing. I want one !!



> Where are you located? I slab logs your size and larger all the time with my Lucas slabber. And for those of us with the experience, you can work around metal in the trees. I just did a 52" silver maple log on Friday for one of my regulars. It had a couple nails in it, no big deal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Tblood (Apr 19, 2015)

This is why I've come to love wood working! Of all the hobbies and activities I am into, wood workers and sawyers never fail to offer more help and advice than anyone else. Appreciate it guys. Not a chance I'm giving up on the big boy! 


> Perhaps you could get it done using an Alaska mill. I ve seen videos of guys using them with really long bars. It s a two man job on something that big. It might cost a bit to get the mill and chainsaw, but hey it s only money!
> 
> - BurlyBob


I thought about doing this but had trouble locating one large enough. Most are being sold outright. Don't these have a little larger chain than normal? Quite a bit of lost wood? 


> Ask to see some of his work.
> Around, me you ll never find anyone to saw it they just don t want to mess with trees from a yard or along a fence line. That s even if you agree to buy a blade.
> 
> The one guy who has a circular saw mill won t even talk to you.
> ...


Thanks Robert. Good tip about asking to see his work. Funny you say that about the circular saw guys. My two top candidates right now are circular mills with top saws. Haha. I'm dying to crack this thing open… Pics will definitely be posted if I do! 


> I would do it. I ve milled many large Maples like that with fantastic color & grain inside.
> 
> - Timberwerks





> 52" Maple from just a month ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> Where are you located? I slab logs your size and larger all the time with my Lucas slabber. And for those of us with the experience, you can work around metal in the trees. I just did a 52" silver maple log on Friday for one of my regulars. It had a couple nails in it, no big deal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here's hoping man… Here's hoping. I've dreamt about seeing some great spalting, curl, or even dare I say… Birdseye! Your 52" silver makes mine look like a twig. That's a gorgeous slab.

I'm about 35min southwest of Cleveland in Oberlin, Ohio. That would be quite a hike for you. So… How soon can you be here?! I'll have plenty of your drink of choice ready and waiting. But, I would appreciate a referral to any contacts you may have in the area with similar mills. What do you do with your slabs once cut? 


> Take these words of wisdom from a fight fan and avid wood worker: There is no respect for throwing in the towel.
> 
> You fight until you are KO d, your arm is snapped or you are choked unconscious. No Tapping, Pablo! With that attitude you will never get the belt, you will never get a title shot. You will be a mid-tier gate keeper who will be just another hi-lighted, hyperlinked name on Sherdog.com who is remembered as "that guy" [Insert: snickers and laughs].
> 
> ...


This right here… Don't need to say anything else. Vince Lombardi himself could not have come up with a better motivational speech. I went over most of it with a detector and got a few hits. I've dug the metal out of all but one hit. It's all the way towards the base and can be bucked off easily enough if need be. The tree wasn't anywhere near barb wire at any point, but I'm not so sure about buck shot. If I get it cracked open I'll make sure to put down a bet in Vegas in your name! 


> I have a friend back home in SoMs who saws whatever trees you throw at him. Wood Mizer owners who throw a fit over the possibility of the tree having steel in it (and it is their prerogative to do so) will loose out to those who dont, so says the Market.
> 
> You only live once, Gnaw that tree into slabs with your teeth and make something perdy.
> 
> - SirIrb





> Contact Woodmizer factory. Ask for names/address/phone # s of those mills in your area that have the new, larger bandmill. Interview those sawyers. Ask lots of questions, such as those issues within the replies above. Make a decision. Plan on spending a bit of money. Enjoy forever, the tree with all of the memories.
> 
> Luv a duh life…Luv a duh wood!
> 
> - rustfever


I contacted Wood Mizer and they passed me a few names but only one had a mill close to large enough and I never heard anything back. I'm betting I won't. 


> There are guys out there. I just took a silver leaf maple from my front yard in and had that slabbed up. We had to cut all 4 sides to get it through the mill but I think it was worth it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow. That's a serious chunk of wood. What type of mill slabbed it up for you? What did you end up doing with it and do you have any pics of the slabs? 


> Better get started. I ll take the other side.
> 
> - BroncoBrian





> Yeah, you could rip it with a pit saw, if you can find anybody game enough to get underneath it in the pit and tireless enough to make it through the job.
> 
> You might have to get a small crane to maneuver it.
> 
> ...


All these posts are motivating but I'm gonna have to pass on those! I love working with my hands but not when my chainsaw is still running. Haha. Paul, crack that oak open! 


> Look into a chainsaw mill. Watch Matt Cremona YouTube video on using his chainsaw mill. It might work for you.
> 
> - Woodmaster1


Great tip! I haven't come across Matt's videos before. Lots of good insight and direction for a number of different skill levels. 


> Wow !! Did you find that dog inside when you cut the tree ?
> 
> - Yonak


Would you believe me if I said he's actually moving the log for me? It's just a big stick for him.

Again, Thanks for the awesome replies and info. I knew I came to the right forum. You guys rock!!


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## Tblood (Apr 19, 2015)

Few more pics and questions…
































Is there any concern with the heartwood having a bluish tinge? It's a fair bit darker than the rest. Really hoping its not punky further up the trunk.

I've never dried sugar maple but I've done some research on it. Is it as finicky as it seems to be? I'd planned letting it air dry in a barn but now I'm not so sure after talking to a few people. Its not the worst drying wood out there, but would I be doing it a disservice by doing anything less than kiln drying it?

Interesting pieces from the other tree. It was pretty rotten inside but some of it was in fair shape with crazy spalting. 

























Thanks guys

TC


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## logboy73 (Jul 23, 2009)

Cleveland is a hike for me, probably 10 hours or more. I'm pretty sure you dont want to pay a $700 travel charge just to get me there.

Have you touched base with Metro Hardwoods in Cleveland to see if they can help or direct you to anyone?

http://www.metro-hardwoods.com/

All my slabs get stacked and air dried for a few months before going in the kiln. When they come out they get flattened with my Lucas planing attachment. After that theyre ready to be made into a piece of furniture.


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## logboy73 (Jul 23, 2009)

> Is there any concern with the heartwood having a bluish tinge? It s a fair bit darker than the rest.


Its not the blue you need to worry about, its the black. Black means iron which reacts with the tannins in the wood and stains it. I saw at least one mark on the butt of your log. Theres going to be more metal in that log than you realize. 95% of the urban trees I saw have metal in them.


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## Tblood (Apr 19, 2015)

> Cleveland is a hike for me, probably 10 hours or more. I m pretty sure you dont want to pay a $700 travel charge just to get me there.
> 
> Have you touched base with Metro Hardwoods in Cleveland to see if they can help or direct you to anyone?
> 
> ...


Definitely way too long of a haul.

Dean at Metro Hardwoods was one of the first people I talked to when the tree came down. He's one of the only mills that has a thin kerf bandsaw capable of handling the full width. 54" I think he can tackle. But he's been very backed 
up and is hesitant to take on a yard tree. Understandably so. I'd hate to ruin his blades… But a bandsaw that size is so damn tempting! 


> Is there any concern with the heartwood having a bluish tinge? It s a fair bit darker than the rest.
> 
> Its not the blue you need to worry about, its the black. Black means iron which reacts with the tannins in the wood and stains it. I saw at least one mark on the butt of your log. Theres going to be more metal in that log than you realize. 95% of the urban trees I saw have metal in them.
> 
> - Logboy


I was afraid of that. I can only hope it's the large hit I got with the metal detector near the butt of the tree I couldn't dig out. Are there any other measures I can take to ease the mind of a mill operator? Does it help that the tree is old enough to make hitting steel unlikely? I'd imagine any metal deep in the tree is old iron that's relatively brittle… Hopefully.


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## logboy73 (Jul 23, 2009)

Metal does not disintegrate inside of logs, nor does it get more brittle. And it doesnt matter how old the tree is. I've slabbed logs well over 100 years old that were still full of metal. You dont know until you open them up.


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## Tblood (Apr 19, 2015)

You all must be good luck. I found an Amish mill able to handle 42". 








Had to buck off 16" at the base to avoid metal. Sucks! 








Finally on the trailer. Seriously strained a 12ton winch. 
















Didn't want to take pictures at the mill out of respect. We had some trouble milling it. The slabs didn't come out very even and are a lot thicker than planned. Quite a bit more rot than I hoped but they are… Interesting.

I'll post a few more pictures of the slabs in a bit.

TC


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## daddywoofdawg (Feb 1, 2014)

http://woodmizer.com/us/Services/Find-a-Local-Sawyer


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

That is a wonderful lot of wood. Congratulations.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## Tblood (Apr 19, 2015)

> http://woodmizer.com/us/Services/Find-a-Local-Sawyer
> 
> - daddywoofdawg


I called wood mizer and used their website and came up empty. Nobody capable of doing it.


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## Tblood (Apr 19, 2015)

A few lousy pictures of the slabs. The mill had a tough time… Log was so awkward that it rocked and rotated. It bound the blade a few times and couldn't make the full cut in a couple places. The results left a lot of work. Planing and finishing won't be easy. The wood doesn't drop your jaw at first look. Even the solid spots. I hope there is a lot more curl and figure hidden under the rough cut… At one point I thought I saw a little birdseye in a few spots but I haven't had time to clean them. Slabs are 9 1/2 feet long, anywhere from 29" - 46" in width and 2" - 3 1/2" thick. I ended up with 10 slabs and a few partial.

What do you think? Any real potential here?


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## Yonak (Mar 27, 2014)

It looks like pickins may be slim but you may find some jewels in there. How many blades did they break and how much did they charge ? Do you mind my asking ?


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## Tblood (Apr 19, 2015)

> It looks like pickins may be slim but you may find some jewels in there. How many blades did they break and how much did they charge ? Do you mind my asking ?
> 
> - Yonak


No broken blades or teeth thankfully. It was a large circular saw with a top mounted saw. We hit metal in a few spots but they were old, weak nails and the saw went right through them. I was incredibly nervous the whole time since a replacement blade is $2500 - $3000!

The original cost was going to be $70/hr and they said it would surprise them if it took longer than 45min - 1hr. The original plan was to just drop the log. Since it was a bit of a trip with a borrowed trailer, the sawyer offered to mill it himself. No other workers were around. There was a ton of participation on our part which was cool and a little intimidating at the same time… This coming from a guy used to running heavy equipment and working on the edge. It ended up taking a little over 3 1/2hrs. He only charged $50 but I gave him a $100 because he busted his butt with a couple of rookies. He was a good sport about it all.

Despite the results, nearly being crushed, and almost having my head taken off by a four foot wooden missile… It was a blast and I'd do it again.

Slim pickings, eh? I was hoping you'd say my inexperienced eye was way off and there is some really beautiful wood hidden in there!!


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## Yonak (Mar 27, 2014)

> Slim pickings, eh? I was hoping you d say my inexperienced eye was way off and there is some really beautiful wood hidden in there!!
> 
> - Tblood


Well, it's just hard to tell from the pictures if there are any large areas of good solid wood. I'm having a bit of a hard time grasping the scale. It certainly looks like there's some nice figure in there. I hope you find plenty of wood to share with your folks.


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## logboy73 (Jul 23, 2009)

Those circle mills with the top mounted saw dont do very well. I will be slabbing at an Amish mill later this week, handling their big stuff. They have one of those saws. Its faster than my slabber, but takes a lot of work to clean up the slabs afterwards.

Those little tiny sticks you have crossways on your slabs better not be your stickers or they will mold and never dry. They need to be at least an inch thick, and the full width. Then put some concrete blocks on top to slow down the cupping as they dry. You need good airflow through the stack as well.


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## Tblood (Apr 19, 2015)

> Slim pickings, eh? I was hoping you d say my inexperienced eye was way off and there is some really beautiful wood hidden in there!!
> 
> - Tblood
> 
> ...


They aren't very good pictures. I will try and post some better ones in the next week or so. I really need to go through each of the slabs and clean out the rotten wood and dirt that has built up in there over the years.

I really hope there is some nice figure and wood in these slabs. I called in a bunch of favors to get the log to this point hoping it would pay off… I'm not so sure it will.



> Those circle mills with the top mounted saw dont do very well. I will be slabbing at an Amish mill later this week, handling their big stuff. They have one of those saws. Its faster than my slabber, but takes a lot of work to clean up the slabs afterwards.
> 
> Those little tiny sticks you have crossways on your slabs better not be your stickers or they will mold and never dry. They need to be at least an inch thick, and the full width. Then put some concrete blocks on top to slow down the cupping as they dry. You need good airflow through the stack as well.
> 
> - Logboy


I heard it takes a very experienced sawyer to properly line up a top mounted saw. Based on what I saw, they won't make clean cuts even when lined up perfectly. Cleaning the cuts and flattening the slabs will be interesting…

Those are my stickers for the time being. I honestly wasn't expecting the guy to mill the log this weekend and was caught unprepared. They are only temporary, though. I am worried about them drying properly since the thickness varies so much from one end to the other, and a few have an 1/8th inch lip that runs the full length of the board where the bottom and top saws met. Will that affect how I stick them up? Very few are flat enough that the stickers will cross the full width and evenly support the weight. Should I get out the router and build a sled to flatten them as much as possible before drying??

The guy who milled the log thought this was a Red Maple when we started cutting it. My family has always called it a Sugar Maple and I didn't see any evidence proving otherwise. They have been tapped for over a hundred years and always yielded incredible syrup. I never paid much attention to the leaves and the bark looks like it would be Sugar Maple… Any thoughts one way or the other from the above pictures?

As always, I appreciate the input and advice!

TC


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## logboy73 (Jul 23, 2009)

Red maple is a soft, while sugar is a hard. Yours looks like Sugar. Soft maple tends to look more porous. Do the best you can on stickering. You just found out the hard way why guys like me are in business.


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