# Am I Doing Something Wrong???



## DMiller (Feb 7, 2017)

In the last 6 months I have taken up woodturning, and have been loving it. One thing that I replaced on the lathe was the tailstock center. I purchased a Grizzly H3403 live center (http://www.grizzly.com/products/Cupped-Live-Center-for-Wood-Lathe-MT1/H3403?utm_campaign=zPage&utm_source=grizzly.com), and after around a month of light use, the bearing cover came off and the center failed. I contacted Grizzly about the issue, and the sent me a new center free of charge. Again, today I was using the new center; within 30 minutes of use, the identical thing happened (it worked for around 25 minutes, and then in about 3 seconds, failed). My question is, am I doing something wrong to make this happen? I don't want to contact Grizzly about this if it's my own mistake. Any help is greatly appreciated! DMiller


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## ralbuck (Mar 12, 2012)

AS a novice on a turning lathe; I have abused the hell out of the live center on my El Cheapo H-F lathe and had no issues at all. I think G managed to get a bad bunch! I also think they will treat you right; so please do notify them again. Then ask them too if it could be your error.


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## DMiller (Feb 7, 2017)

Thanks, Ralbuck! I will probably go ahead then and contact Grizzly. I will say that their customer service was 5 star; bust as for their product, 1 star. Thanks for the help.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

It is not your fault.

Forget about the Grizzly live centers and go with a quality one from Woodworker's Supply:
https://woodworker.com/woodtek-live-center-2mt-mssu-159-164.asp?search=live%20center&searchmode=2

We have 12 lathes in our school's woodturning studio that are outfitted with this live center and have never had an issue with any of them.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

Bearing cover? I'm having a hard time understanding what that means… live centers are about as simple as it gets - a MT arbor with a bearing stuck on the end. I can see how the bearing may fail given Grizzlys history of using the cheapest ones on the planet, but the simple fix is to just replace it with a quality one. Can you post a picture of how yours failed?

Cheers,
Brad


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## DMiller (Feb 7, 2017)

Thanks for the replies, Gerry and Brad! Gerry, thanks for the suggestion- I forgot to mention my lathe is MT1, thanks for the the suggestion though! Brad, now that I think of it, I've never seen a bearing with a cover till now!





































The last picture primarily shows the "bearing cover." Sorry about the bad pics- my camera isn't all that great. Hope this helps explain what you were wanting to see. Thanks again for the replies. DMiller


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

Yeah, cheap ass bearings. You can make it like new by replacing the bearing with a good one - then you will have two (three?).

Cheers,
Brad


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## John Smith_inFL (Dec 15, 2017)

I am thrown off by the color of the tail stock. it looks burned and brown
compared to the new one that is bright and shiny.










.


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## DMiller (Feb 7, 2017)

John, the center was bright and shiny when I got it. It looks burned and brown because of the grease/wd40 that was used in getting the center out. It would come right off if I wiped it with a damp paper cloth….thanks for the reply!


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## redlee (Apr 11, 2016)

http://www.royalproducts.com/content/files/products/HP_QB_Live_Center.pdf
You paid $16.00 for it a good one costs about $600.

Good centers cost good money,but yours should not have failed that easily unless your abusing it.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

Get a quality one and enjoy trouble free turning. If Grizzly gives you a 2 nd one keep it as a back up.


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## John Smith_inFL (Dec 15, 2017)

*It looks burned and brown because of the grease/wd40 that was used in getting the center out. *

Dale - I have been turning stuff on a lathe for a very long time…... not many times, but for a long time.
over the years, I don't think I ever had the tail center into the piece being turned so tight that it took
so much lubrication and force to get it out. (matter of fact, I don't think you are supposed to even oil 
or grease a Morse Taper). [or put a cold center into a warm collet/spindle]
question now arises: how much pressure do you put on the tail stock ?
granted, cheap bearings from China don't take much to disintegrate as those have.
do you use a steel rod to tap the centers from the back through the spindle to remove them ?
just exploring more areas as to how your bearings have failed two in a row.
what live centers have you used in the past ?

.


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## DMiller (Feb 7, 2017)

> *It looks burned and brown because of the grease/wd40 that was used in getting the center out. *
> 
> (matter of fact, I don t think you are supposed to even oil
> or grease a Morse Taper). [or put a cold center into a warm collet/spindle]
> ...


John- thanks for the reply. I'm not fully sure what you mean by "[or put a cold center into a warm collet/spindle]." Are you supposed to heat the center before placing in on the lathe? Yes, I do use a steel rod to tap the centers from the back through the spindle to remove them. I'm fairly new to turning- these are the first centers I have purchased and used. The grease/WD40 in the center was there from when I was trying to get the center that came with/on the lathe out. It is an older Craftsman lathe I restored. (http://lumberjocks.com/projects/340089) Thanks for the replies and help! Dale


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## John Smith_inFL (Dec 15, 2017)

wow - that looks like the one my brother had back in high school in 1960 LOL.
well worth saving if all the bearings behave properly for you.

It has never happened to me, but I have read that if you put a cold center into a warm spindle,
after you use it and it warms up, it may be extremely difficult to remove.
no - do not warm up anything prior to inserting it into the spindle. just keep everything together
so they will be the same temperature when you do use it and you will be good-to-go.

sort of like putting bearings in the oven and the bearing carrier in the freezer before marrying them together.
one shrinks and the other expands. then when they are assembled and acclimates - it becomes a permanent assembly. 
hope you get a new DEPENDABLE live center soon !!!


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Probably cheap bearings combined with excessive vibration those Craftsman tube lathes are known to vibrate.


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## DMiller (Feb 7, 2017)

Thanks for the replies, guys! I'm glad to know about center heat/cooling effects. The lathe came from my great uncle- the center that was in it originally had not been removed for years. Thanks for the help….


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## mrg (Mar 10, 2010)

Woodcraft has the #1 Morse taper centers for less than 30 dollars. I bought one for a lathe I restored and gave to a friends son and the live center is still going strong.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

I have live centers, drive centers, chucks from PSI tools that have been very reliable at low prices.


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## sseebart (Aug 20, 2015)

Don't know if it would make a difference, but have you checked to see that the tailstock and head are aligned? I could see how some misalignment there (+ pressure) might exert unexpected forces on the live center and cause the bearings to fail.


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## Nubsnstubs (Aug 30, 2013)

I have a hard time believing that center didn't lock up and start acting like a dead center. It almost looks like it melted off the races….......... Jerry (in Tucson)


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## DMiller (Feb 7, 2017)

Thanks for the replies…I like the method of Woodcraft's centers. Below is a picture of my lathes alignment- it is about 1/8in off.









Merry Christmas to you all!


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## yvrdennis (Jun 14, 2015)

Yikes! 1/8" out of alignment is pretty bad. I think this has something to do with your problem, especially if you are turning fairly short blanks between centres. This will also lead to a lot of vibration and burning if you try drilling on the lathe.


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## DMiller (Feb 7, 2017)

Thanks! That's good to know. My brother was wanting to get into pens- he will find that quite interesting. Thanks.


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## redlee (Apr 11, 2016)

You gotta address that offset, not only is it hard on your center but its dangerous.


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## DMiller (Feb 7, 2017)

Being that i'm new to turning, if I can ask, how will it being off by 1/8in affect me? What makes it dangerous? I can understand if you are turning a short piece of wood it would not be "centered," but if i'm turning a 30" piece, (even though it would be slightly off), how would it affect me? Thanks!


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## John Smith_inFL (Dec 15, 2017)

*Dale said: how will it being off by 1/8in affect me?*

do you want the short story or the long story ???









and yes, this is a very real woodworking accident with a piece of wood hitting me in the face.

nobody has asked yet - - - - *is your lathe GROUNDED ?*
I mean with an actual ground wire inside the motor connected directly to the motor housing ?
many areas of genuine concern here.

.


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## robscastle (May 13, 2012)

Dale,
You asked if you were doing something wrong.
The answer is yes.

The corrective action is as follows
1 Go the the power outlet and switch it off
2. Remove the cord and wind it up on the machine.
3 Sit down and read the manual.
3a Go watch some videos on safe operation of a lathe
4. Upon FULLY understanding how the machine operates
now do the following
1. Conduct a full servicility and safety check
2. If there is any concern fix it or get it fixed.

3. Report back for an authority to "power Up" 
This can be provided by any competent wood turner on this site …just ask.

Failing that sell it. A great tool (but with your current level of knowledge) in the wrong hands.

I am assuming here you dont want to be a John Smith look alike.

Credentails for making the above comments
Own a lathe: no 
Used a lathe: No
Woodworking trade: No 
Certified trainer: No

Reson for the sell it comment we need you to live longer and become a master woodworker.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> Being that i m new to turning, if I can ask, how will it being off by 1/8in affect me? What makes it dangerous? I can understand if you are turning a short piece of wood it would not be "centered," but if i m turning a 30" piece, (even though it would be slightly off), how would it affect me? Thanks!
> - DMiller


I would be curious to hear about what makes it dangerous as well… especially since I have a tailstock that has an adjustment specifically so you can make it offset from the headstock center in order to turn tapers; as well as the various aftermarket offset tail centers available. Ideally, you do want the centers to be in line though, and there is an adjustment for your lathe described in the manual as to how to go about doing it.

Cheers,
Brad


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## DMiller (Feb 7, 2017)

> *Dale said: how will it being off by 1/8in affect me?*
> 
> nobody has asked yet - - - - *is your lathe GROUNDED ?*
> I mean with an actual ground wire inside the motor connected directly to the motor housing ?
> ...


Yes, John- I just double checked and my lathe is grounded properly.

I'm not sure if you all understood me or not- here is a picture of my lathe, BEFORE restoration:
http://lumberjocks.com/assets/pictures/projects/1817161-438x.jpg

And here is a picture of my lathe AFTER restoration:
http://lumberjocks.com/assets/pictures/projects/1817137-438x.jpg

This lathe was FULLY restored before I used it- I adjusted and fixed ALL of the problems I saw, with the exception of center alignment. I did not fix the center alignment because I was able to twist the tailstock to almost perfect alignment. The lathe itself has worked flawlessly since I restored it; the only thing that has been a problem was the centers I ordered from Grizzly.

Thank you all for your concern- I greatly appreciate it. 
With all due respect,
DMiller


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## John Smith_inFL (Dec 15, 2017)

the HF lathe I have, the tail stock can be adjusted as much as 1/4" off center 
with the head stock spindle. So I don't think that would be tearing up your live center
bearings. sharp tools with the proper angle of grind will give you the best service.
it's not rocket science to make some nice things with a lathe.
just pay attention that everything is locked up tight prior to switching the machine on.
looking forward to seeing your work once you get it all dialed in and the live center problem solved.

Johnny

.


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## yvrdennis (Jun 14, 2015)

The problem with an off centre tailstock is that the workpiece is rotating about a straight line between the headstock and tailstock. But the spurs on the drive centre and the cup on the live centre are at right angles to the lathe bed, which doesn't line up with the axis of rotation. So, either the the workpiece is flexing once per revolution, or the spurs are digging in more on one side than the other. The end result is a lot of vibration, side loading on the live centre and headstock, and the possibility that the drive centre or live centre could come loose as a result of all of the movement.

This is much worse when the head and tailstock are close together.

Another way of picturing the problem is to imagine that you've got a large blank screwed to a faceplate and you bring up the tail stock to steady it. The workpiece is going to rotate about the headstock centre line and the tailstock will be trying to draw a circle on the other side of the blank. If you screw it in tight you'll get a lot of vibration and some very large side loads on the workpiece and all of the bearings.

So, the short answer is that your workpiece is at a higher risk of coming loose, you're getting more vibration, and you're beating up the bearings on the lathe and tailstock when you have poor alignment.

You said you could twist the tailstock into alignment by hand, so maybe this isn't an issue in your case. But if your lathe is that flexible then I'm guessing you're getting quite a bit of vibration, which would be hard on the live centre bearings.

By the way, you probably know this already, but the real secret to not ending up in a hospital is to keep your speed down to something reasonable. Any workpiece could have a crack in it and come off the lathe at any time. The standard rule of thumb for this is speed(rpm) x diameter (inches) is less than 6000 to 9000.


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## DMiller (Feb 7, 2017)

Thanks John and yvrdennis; I appreciate your input! Yvrdennis, thanks for explaining the dangers of bad center alignment- it really makes sense to me now. Thanks!


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## redlee (Apr 11, 2016)

If your working between centers its fine but if your using a chuck or spurs its not.


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