# Lots of room for improvement



## Chocdog (Aug 31, 2014)

Wow.
I only paid $10 for a year's premium membership . I do not like the commercials, but that is the way most of the web based channels are. I did email them about why as a premium member we had to put up with the adds. Got no response. For $10/yr, I have found some useful videos, and some not so useful.


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## pjones46 (Mar 1, 2011)

Complaint Review: Woodworkers Guild of America

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Woodworkers-Guild-of-America/Minneapolis-Minnesota-55412/Woodworkers-Guild-of-America-WWGOA-CS-Continued-to-charge-after-cancellation-Minneapolis-869271

These people as well as a few others have dubious marketing practices and there are many complaints written about them and above is just one of many listed.

Word to the wise, stay away from them.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

Sounds like, "Woodworkers Guild of America," just like so many online sources geared toward advertising over substance. Thanks for your review but sadly today E-commerce cannot survive on subscriptions alone. After reading information at their web site would think dealing with a professional outfit and ensure better customer service. Apparently not!

If they hope to grow their business better listen to customer feedback and improve services provided.

This outfit has been discussed here before.
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/46821


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

Isn't this the series host " George" the man Stumpy Nubs lampooned about having problems with his "stool"?


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## GVondriska (Jun 17, 2015)

George Vondriska, here. Managing Editor at WWGOA. I'm going to weigh in here. Be gentle with me. 

Thanks for the critique. If we can make things better, we want to know how to do so. You've prompted some action on our end.

I've checked with the web guy. We've recently done a site migration, and he admits that there's currently a lag in load time on the WWGOA pages. He's working on it. I'm no web developer, so don't have a great explanation for it, but it has do with the the site's code. Morse? Maybe. I'm not sure. But they're aware.

Billing. If you opt out of Premium membership, that should be the end of the road. The folks involved with this side of things are looking into what happened in this case. Sorry about the $5 overcharge. It shouldn't happen. $5 or $50, it shouldn't happen.

Sponsored videos: Our form of advertising, in addition to standard web site banner ads, is sponsored videos. My goal with these is to provide a technique or some kind of tool education, while using the sponsor's tool. During a sponsored clip it will always say "Tool X provided by mfr Z." In addition to the sponsored clips, which are on the free part of the site, there are a bunch of non-sponsored free clips that also offer techniques and/or buying advice. We have about 500 of 4-6 minute clips on WWGOA (in addition to stuff ranging from 60-120 min), of which about 200 are free, of which about 35 were sponsored by a mfr.

Deleted comments: We don't delete comments we don't like. But, see site migration above. We've migrated content a few times in recent years, moving to better and better platforms. I've noticed that some stories, aspects of stories, comments…don't make the move. Nothing malicious about it. It's computer stuff. (That's my technical explanation.) Not quite seamless. We'll notice that content is missing, but wouldn't have a way to note that a comment didn't make the move.

Projects: The stool project is one of the first we shot for WWGOA. The premise with a lot of these shorter projects was to talk through the building process on the video, provide a cut list, and that would be enough. Like many businesses do, we've evolved since then. Plans today look more like the image I've included on this post









, or what you see in this article http://www.wwgoa.com/article/shop-made-drill-press-table-plans/. We're working through existing projects to add drawings, realizing there are gaps in what we originally provided. It'll take a while to get to them all, since we continue to produce content that needs new drawings. Bottom line, we're working to make each project a more complete package that will include all the necessary project details.

Typos: I also don't know what 5/5 wood is. Thanks for pointing it out. You're the first one to bring it to my attention. We'll correct. it.

Short point vs long point: I'm sure that, in my head, I had a great reason for calling out short point to short point on the rails, but I can't remember today why that was. Yep, with the miter gauge angled the way it is and the stop block where it is, long point would have been easier and made more sense. If we reshot this tomorrow….

Finishing: for most projects we end with "apply your favorite finish." Finishing is so subjective. I spray lacquer (and am switching to water-based), others wipe on poly. Our approach is to provide finishing-specific content on its own, and let the builder decide what to use.

These stools got another mention on this site here http://lumberjocks.com/projects/161154 and, yes, they are the object of the Stool Sample video. 



 Yes, I know that I said stools something like 42 times. Wish we had the out take footage. It was hilarious.

I'm about to leave town for a few days so if you post something following my post that you expect me to respond to, and I don't, don't get mad. Happily, I'll be in an internet-free zone for a while, so anything I don't see in the next few hours I won't see till next week.

I really enjoy teaching woodworking, and see the videos as a way to do that. We're not out to just crank out minutes of edited content. We're out to produce good content. Sometimes I screw up on a video, or in a cut list, or in a drawing. We try to catch this stuff in edit, but sometimes it gets past us.

Thanks for the opportunity to talk this through.

George


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## pjones46 (Mar 1, 2011)

@ GVondriska

So you are a principle of WWGOA, I assume? Would be nice to have introduced yourself as such.


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## GVondriska (Jun 17, 2015)

Sorry, Paul. I missed that step. I'm the Managing Editor. Lots of people involved with WWGOA, like any publication.


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## Ottacat (May 1, 2013)

Thanks for commenting George and giving us a broader perspective. I hope the issues get dealt with and I'm glad to see the effort to include diagrams.

If this type of feedback is new then perhaps WWGOA could add a feedback or survey feature to their website. Many organizations that are passionately concerned about their clients having the best possible experience do regular survey's, often by encouraging participation with a small prize.


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

George ROCKS!


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## donbee (Feb 7, 2009)

Back when this outfit started up I received an unsolicited dvd. I didn't return it. The law allows the receiver of unsolicited materials to dispose of or keep any without any payment.
I'm sorry Mr. VonDriska is involved in this outfit. I lost much respect because of it.

Don


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

> Back when this outfit started up I received an unsolicited dvd. I didn t return it. The law allows the receiver of unsolicited materials to dispose of or keep any without any payment.
> I m sorry Mr. VonDriska is involved in this outfit. I lost much respect because of it.
> 
> Don
> ...


Yup, one sleazy operation. After a while they sent what looked like a bill with the choices of returning the disc at your cost or paying for it. There is no recovering from such a first impression.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Here is a sample of the letter that they ("they", in this case, being our very own *George Vondriska*) sent out:










Here are the choices since the image might be hard to read:
(1) Send $12.95 for the DVD and subscribe to "The Complete Woodworking Video Collection".
(2) Return the DVD in the Product Return Envelope that came with it.

Who receives something unwanted and keeps both the item and the return envelope in case the sender asks for it back in a few weeks?


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

> George ROCKS!
> 
> - Desert_Woodworker


I recant my "George Rocks" after seeing his name on the above document. Putting your name on it means something to me.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

> George ROCKS!
> 
> - DesertWoodworker
> 
> ...


Your recant has been duly recorded.


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## NIS240SHU (Mar 27, 2014)

Thanks for your review, Ottacat. I read about the letters and DVDs that WWGOA used to send out and that raised my suspicions of them.

I signed up for their free e-mail newsletter and am constantly bombarded with e-mail promoting their membership. I've really considered it since it's so cheap, but I'm now sold on NOT getting a membership.

There are many other people/companies I'd rather support with my hard-earned money.

Helder


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