# Musical Instruments Restoration



## BertFlores58 (May 26, 2010)

*Bandurria Picolo*

Quite a break for me… without post in the lj. I was just reading and viewing to be updated. Here back to same hobby.

Glad that the old musical instrument was taken cared by my late father in the province where i grow up. With the condition that is nearly beyond repair, made myself available to try restoring it. In return, the challenge is really interesting.

Bandurria is a spanish origin. The Philippines made a variation to make it 14 strings from original of 12.

The body










I have to make a new boards for both the front and the back. The best board is my seasoned jackfruit. I resaw with rip hand saw. I manage to plane and sand it. My thicknesser can only plane to 5mm thick therefore jackplane was the last result for roughing. Grinding with sandpaper is not enough. I used my barber's razor as scraper. I tried with glass but it easilly becomes dull. The finished thickness is 1/8 " and the brittleness plus the hardness of the jackfruit give me an exhausting effort.










The neck and the head

Actual neck and head can still be used. You can see that this is a solid piece with label face brown hardwood. I can not retrieve the fretboard so i make .

What is interesting is bending the wood. I thought bending wood is easy. I try steaming using the laboratory sterilizer but not sucessfull. It is just springing back to its original. Some of my try just breaks or splits. Finally, I was able to bend using a dry and nicer wood.










The reaming is also an entertaining way. I have to use a blow torch fo heating the plastic for bending

Till then


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## scrollgirl (May 28, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Bandurria Picolo*
> 
> Quite a break for me… without post in the lj. I was just reading and viewing to be updated. Here back to same hobby.
> 
> ...


This is really involved, Bert! I hope you can finish this up successfully. I appreciate you sharing the steps necessary to restore this with all of us. 

Sheila


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Bandurria Picolo*
> 
> Quite a break for me… without post in the lj. I was just reading and viewing to be updated. Here back to same hobby.
> 
> ...


Bert that looks like a big challenge

Jamie


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Bandurria Picolo*
> 
> Quite a break for me… without post in the lj. I was just reading and viewing to be updated. Here back to same hobby.
> 
> ...


That's a complex little job Bert but if anyone can get it done you can.
I have faith in you.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Bandurria Picolo*
> 
> Quite a break for me… without post in the lj. I was just reading and viewing to be updated. Here back to same hobby.
> 
> ...


It looks very good so far Bert. I'm sure your efforts will be well rewarded when you complete the project and have a beautiful family heirloom. I know it is hard to make/restore something like this without special tools, but this will test your creativeness. Can't wait to see it progress.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Bandurria Picolo*
> 
> Quite a break for me… without post in the lj. I was just reading and viewing to be updated. Here back to same hobby.
> 
> ...


You are back! Looks like a project of love. Restoration is always more involved than making a new piece.


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## Cozmo35 (Feb 1, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Bandurria Picolo*
> 
> Quite a break for me… without post in the lj. I was just reading and viewing to be updated. Here back to same hobby.
> 
> ...


Git-r-done Bert!


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## BertFlores58 (May 26, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Bandurria Picolo*
> 
> Quite a break for me… without post in the lj. I was just reading and viewing to be updated. Here back to same hobby.
> 
> ...


Just woke up n check my fellow lj who always inspire me… thanks..
This is not the only one…there are more. Violin …. octavina…. another bandurria and a melodica… there is also century old piano. Actually the above sounds great when i was only 8 years old and i am already 56 today almost half century. 
God bless.


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## BertFlores58 (May 26, 2010)

*Violin*

My father being an all-around musician, bought 3 violins for us. Of the 3, mine was totally destroyed, My brother's was already restored (I have already done it.) but the last one which was my father's is now in my possession. This is so much special as this was loved by my father and been played much older than me. The only problem that I have seen is the glue which had given up due to time. Here is the situation after I had disassembled it.



















Regret that I was not able to take photo on its original state. The photos are taken after I had cleaned all parts by scraping the old shellac finish and the mahogany brown stain that was used those days. Amazingly, the sides of the body is constructed in such a way that a dado or a groove was used. The groove is about 1/32 depth and the width is just about less than 1/16 or nearly a 1 mm. The thickness of the side is only 1/32. There was a cracked body board on the back but can be joined by a glue. Overall, I damaged the sides edges during the cleaning and dis-assembly.










Note: Side strips were damage on the edges because it was sticking strong on the groove. This is the groove were the sides are inserted.










To give you the difference of the original color (shellac in mahogany brown) here is the photo..










To give you the glue in photo used before (probably an asphalt base due to its color black.) now I already use PVA.










And finally, after cleaning the boards… here is the final look.

























The tasks to do are challenging. I have to renew the body sides…. What type of finish? an how should I make it more stronger than before that will last for another 50 years…

Till now.

.


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## murch (Mar 20, 2011)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Violin*
> 
> My father being an all-around musician, bought 3 violins for us. Of the 3, mine was totally destroyed, My brother's was already restored (I have already done it.) but the last one which was my father's is now in my possession. This is so much special as this was loved by my father and been played much older than me. The only problem that I have seen is the glue which had given up due to time. Here is the situation after I had disassembled it.
> 
> ...


Very interesting. Best of luck.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Violin*
> 
> My father being an all-around musician, bought 3 violins for us. Of the 3, mine was totally destroyed, My brother's was already restored (I have already done it.) but the last one which was my father's is now in my possession. This is so much special as this was loved by my father and been played much older than me. The only problem that I have seen is the glue which had given up due to time. Here is the situation after I had disassembled it.
> 
> ...


Nice work so far Bert. Shellac might be a good choice for the finish with several coats sanded in between. French polish would be the best, but you can get a good finish with just shellac too. The shellac would be easiest to restore again when and if necessary. I would use hot hide glue to put it together, also because it is very strong glue and it can be reversed with heat and moisture at a later date. My suggestions here are based mostly from info I have picked up from reading, but somebody with actual experience will probably come with some helpful comments for you. I realize that it might not be so easy to get hold of the hide glue and shellac where you live, so you might want some good alternatives to consider.


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## BTimmons (Aug 6, 2011)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Violin*
> 
> My father being an all-around musician, bought 3 violins for us. Of the 3, mine was totally destroyed, My brother's was already restored (I have already done it.) but the last one which was my father's is now in my possession. This is so much special as this was loved by my father and been played much older than me. The only problem that I have seen is the glue which had given up due to time. Here is the situation after I had disassembled it.
> 
> ...


I have (limited) experience in luthiery, and that's definitely some very unusual construction. Never once seen grooves routed into the top and bottom plates for the ribs and bouts to fit into. The whole idea is to be able to separate the hide glue joint with a thin knife in order to make internal repairs when needed. Can't do that if the ribs and bouts are glued into those grooves.

Unless they're just not pictured, I also didn't see any of the usual linings or corner blocks. Apparently the maker relied on the groove joints for the necessary strength?

The back and sides don't look like the standard maple. Not sure what kind of wood the top is made from, but it sure isn't the typical tight, uniform grained spruce (see below). Pretty wild looking stuff. There also doesn't appear to be any purfling on the front and back plates. That's the inlaid strips around the edge (also seen below).










Another odd detail is the lack of notches on the f-holes. (See your picture #4.)










My guess is that this wasn't professionally made, but was probably a labor of love by an amateur (but rather skilled) maker just using whatever he had access to. Doesn't make it any less special, considering family history and all, but it is definitely unusual.


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## BertFlores58 (May 26, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Violin*
> 
> My father being an all-around musician, bought 3 violins for us. Of the 3, mine was totally destroyed, My brother's was already restored (I have already done it.) but the last one which was my father's is now in my possession. This is so much special as this was loved by my father and been played much older than me. The only problem that I have seen is the glue which had given up due to time. Here is the situation after I had disassembled it.
> 
> ...


Thanks Murch.

Mike,
Just like what I am thinking. It is a nice way for me to wait and see if ever I can have a chance to buy (via Internet) a hide glue so I can make an experiment on this violin. Shellac is sometimes available in the hardware around. My plan is to use a VALSPAR or probably just TUNG OIL. I was able to buy a violin polish that really perks up the good finish of any varnish and shellac finish. The bad experience I have previously with shellac, if you spill or probably from hands a small amount of alcohol (rubbing alcohol for example) it turn to white. I think we have to think of sealing the shellac with a top coat. I hope I can manage in the course of this restoration. There is no rush. Thanks for the very important suggestion from you. I knew how tedious you do your work too.

Brian,
Thanks so much for the reality of this violin. You have noticed that this was so specially made. This is done 50 or more years ago and I think everything was done handcarving including the groove. The earlier one made that I already restored, there was no groove. But you are right… this has been done by those old violin makers (considering that they might be experienced but not professional as they are not branded)... also there is no lining support for the rib and corner blocks. The groove was really the one that makes it so strong.

With the Philippines woods, a lot of variety of wood are selected by tradition and sound quality each one produce. The above wood is probably Philippine MAHOGANY the old specie not the one grown for 15 years. This wood probably a 100 years before cutting. The grain are so close together but what you can obviously see is the burlside.or a branch.. The cutting or ripping was not really perfect quartersawn. The sides (on the photo no. 2 and 3 can justify the strength of this wood.. that even less than 1 mm thick can still hold the strings for a long time… It was only the glue who had given up. I have an alternative one to used in the restoration without the lining and use the same groove… a narra that is rip vertically as it will be easy to bend.

Thanks you so much on the information… I like to think that when I restore this… I will consider myself amateur with the love and passion to restore our family treasure…. and this is also dedicated to my family (brothers and sisters) as well… infact they are the one pushing me to restore my late father's legacy. Hope he will be happy too out there..

Best of luck this weekend…


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## scrollgirl (May 28, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Violin*
> 
> My father being an all-around musician, bought 3 violins for us. Of the 3, mine was totally destroyed, My brother's was already restored (I have already done it.) but the last one which was my father's is now in my possession. This is so much special as this was loved by my father and been played much older than me. The only problem that I have seen is the glue which had given up due to time. Here is the situation after I had disassembled it.
> 
> ...


I know little of this type of woodworking Bert, but I am watching with interest. This is an incredible labor of love and I am learning as I see how you go about your restoration. Thank you for taking the time to post it. 

Sheila


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## BertFlores58 (May 26, 2010)

*Bandurria - Key of E*

As you know, this series is not a real sequel where numbering is not arranged chronological. Just look and see where the continuation of each. Though, all of the posts deals with my new line of skill development in restoring musical instruments from my family heritage, there are a lot of learning ideas based on my experiences. I am just an amateur that looks to the possibilities of rectifying those difficulties using only available resources.

So this is one new instrument again…. The previous Banduria Picolo has no connection with this Banduria Key of E. For all of us, here is the image of a bandurria whose parts are named. This is to guide us.










*TRANSFORMATIONS.* When I received this Bandurria, the condition is too much to handle. But I was able to restore it.

*Glue* … This is really old banduria.. I was on grade school when I was playing with it. The glue used was previously the water soluble welwood glue. This type of glue after several years, becomes brittle and turned into flakes or sometime powder. This is the reason why I have to take out all the elements (parts) so that I can glue back. Every wooden pieces were out on this banduria. The frets were still in good shape.

*The Head* ... The worst thing of all. The holes where the tuning assembly are held are not centered or perpendicular to the base of the tuning head. I plug in with dowels then redrill with new holes. 









*The Neck* Luckily the wood used is red colored and just enough to scrape and sand. I shaped it a bit so that it will not be so stubby to hold. This is strong and solid. Nice color too.









*The Body* ... Except for the glue all the parts can still be reused. Only the sound board (top plate) is having weaker parts. The wood has bended in the portion were there are some carving (grooves) part for the rosette and blackbird marquetry. I manage to put this marquetry and the rosette including the lining on the edges back in place. The glue I used is the PVA one. I am confident that the joints will hold with this glue. 

















Notice the bulging of the plates near the sound hole. This is caused by the tension of the strings. Please note that there are 14 strings in all that will pull the body to the neck.

*THE FINISH* The front and the hole body were done with shellac. I scrape them all because I like it to be in natural wood finish. Those days, stains for musical instruments is a must. They want to have the look brighter in the center portion and darker on the outer portion near the ream.

Here is the old finish….



























Here is after the applying natural finish using my newly discovered finishing varnish… the URETHANE varnish. Nice and shiny… 









With strings



















So it is restored….
I have to say that it is still in Key of E just because I am afraid I am using the wrong strings. I remember that this is the bandurria that my late father told me to use 3 steps lower than the standard tuning because the fretting are much longer than the standards. BUT I am happy as it sounds brilliantly crisps and clear. A little bit of tensions on the string and then I will adjust the bridge and the fretting.

THANKS FOR LOOKING and reading… Hope everyone learn this beautiful rondalla instrument.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Bandurria - Key of E*
> 
> As you know, this series is not a real sequel where numbering is not arranged chronological. Just look and see where the continuation of each. Though, all of the posts deals with my new line of skill development in restoring musical instruments from my family heritage, there are a lot of learning ideas based on my experiences. I am just an amateur that looks to the possibilities of rectifying those difficulties using only available resources.
> 
> ...


Well done! :>)


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## scrollgirl (May 28, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Bandurria - Key of E*
> 
> As you know, this series is not a real sequel where numbering is not arranged chronological. Just look and see where the continuation of each. Though, all of the posts deals with my new line of skill development in restoring musical instruments from my family heritage, there are a lot of learning ideas based on my experiences. I am just an amateur that looks to the possibilities of rectifying those difficulties using only available resources.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing this! 

Sheila


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Bandurria - Key of E*
> 
> As you know, this series is not a real sequel where numbering is not arranged chronological. Just look and see where the continuation of each. Though, all of the posts deals with my new line of skill development in restoring musical instruments from my family heritage, there are a lot of learning ideas based on my experiences. I am just an amateur that looks to the possibilities of rectifying those difficulties using only available resources.
> 
> ...


Great restoration Bert. Now if you can just supply us with a sound bite that would be top it off.


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## BertFlores58 (May 26, 2010)

*Bandurria Picolo Progress*

Here I am back with the restoration of the Picolo (Soprano).. This is the continuation of this blog.

Last Saturday and Sunday, I made a big progress giving attention to the back plate and assembly. Here are the photo and some of my important notes on them.









The back plate with the supports and ribwork. Not to many clamps were used here.









The back plate completed.









In order to add more strength on the front plate (soundboard), support been added. I hope this will not affect the sound quality.









I had fabricated the tail piece from aluminum sheet. A cut a curve from a wood strip and then inserted the folded aluminum sheet then hammer it to form the end of the body. What is missing is just the holes for the string. I will drill it later as the distances of the holes will depend on the bridge.









Mounting and clamping the two plates. Please note that there are only two points where you can clamp.









Note that I have to fit in (not glued yet) the rims to have perfect alignment of the front and back panel.










So this is it for today though I also made the fretboard from kamagong and have not cut the grooves of where the frets are installed.

Till then. What is left here is the fretwork then the rims to be glued.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Bandurria Picolo Progress*
> 
> Here I am back with the restoration of the Picolo (Soprano).. This is the continuation of this blog.
> 
> ...


Thank you for taking us with you on this journey.


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## littlecope (Oct 23, 2008)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Bandurria Picolo Progress*
> 
> Here I am back with the restoration of the Picolo (Soprano).. This is the continuation of this blog.
> 
> ...


Interesting Blog Series Bert… Very Ambitious of you to take on all this repair and restoration work!
I marvel that you can take the instruments apart so cleanly! If it were me, the parts would all be destroyed…


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## BertFlores58 (May 26, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Bandurria Picolo Progress*
> 
> Here I am back with the restoration of the Picolo (Soprano).. This is the continuation of this blog.
> 
> ...


Thomas,
Thanks for reading it and joining my journey. To think of the others who really are on business with woodwork… they may not like the way of restoring because it is really a tiresome job. If only, I need one of the musical instruments… I can easily buy some disposable one… made of plywood and many cheap materials. I just hope, I can finish all these and post them as a project. Sharing with you all is a nice thing. In my case, my knowledge came out from you too.

Mike, 
I was surprised…. your avatar changed. I thought a new member until I realized that it was you littlecope.
Luckily the glue that they use is somewhat no longer strong. There are some portion that are split and need to be replaced. Thanks for looking at it.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Bandurria Picolo Progress*
> 
> Here I am back with the restoration of the Picolo (Soprano).. This is the continuation of this blog.
> 
> ...


Bert,

Love that orange clamp! :>)


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Bandurria Picolo Progress*
> 
> Here I am back with the restoration of the Picolo (Soprano).. This is the continuation of this blog.
> 
> ...


Another great project Bert and interesting to follow.


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## BertFlores58 (May 26, 2010)

*Violin 2 - The Jig for the ribs*

Here is the progress of the violin restoration as the continuation of this blog.

In the process, the need for making the ribs of this violin is a must. After several try of bending the wood, there is no way but to make a jig that will hold the steamed wood while it is hot. So here are some of the photos:









I made this using a two boards cut into shape of 3/4 inch plywood and laminated together. That was too thick. I realized later that the correct thickness is just one and 1/4 inch so I chiseled out 1/4 inch on one side… Here is the flip-side.










Then drill the holes depending on the position where a clamp will be position. What I am thinking is to plant a threaded bar in each hole as a pivot center of two strips that will act as the clamp. I have not drawn yet but this will be constructed after I have procured a suitable wrench (pipe or long socket) plus the nuts and washers.

Meantime, If you have any idea on how to clamp this bended ribs to the jig, I would appreciate much if you could share it to me to lessen my work.

At anyrate, I have downloaded the violin diagram for anyone interested in naming the parts of the violin. It is much easier to comprehend when we use the exact words of it.










Up to this point only with respect to the VIOLIN.

BELOW is the first violin I restored years ago (could not remember when was the exact date). If only I have known some of the don'ts of woodworking, it will not be as it is now. I learned a lot… specially about the glue. The one I used before was not really as strong as of the one I use today.

Today, I revisited this back again and found slight problems:

1. The tail pin was pulled out by the gut because of the string pull.

2. The scroll is cracked affecting one the pinholes becoming loose.









3. The finish is not as good as I expected to last… The one previously used was a polyurethane spray.

So I make first the 3rd aspect and second item. The finish I used is URETHANE and it shines good. The crack in the scroll was glued. Here is the actual violin now.

























I will give you the next progress later.

Thanks for viewing.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Violin 2 - The Jig for the ribs*
> 
> Here is the progress of the violin restoration as the continuation of this blog.
> 
> ...


Very interesting. Thanks.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## BTimmons (Aug 6, 2011)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Violin 2 - The Jig for the ribs*
> 
> Here is the progress of the violin restoration as the continuation of this blog.
> 
> ...


This page shows some methods for clamping and gluing the ribs.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Violin 2 - The Jig for the ribs*
> 
> Here is the progress of the violin restoration as the continuation of this blog.
> 
> ...


Looks good so far.


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## BertFlores58 (May 26, 2010)

*Bandurria Rib Glued*

Here is the progress of the Bandurria picolo continued from this blog.

Nothing much done but this is the most crucial part in the assembly. The ribs both the starboard and port (left and right side) is difficult to clamp and glue. I have to think a lot on how to do it. The photos below will explain it.









As it looks like a mummy wrap around by a garter (1 inch width). How long? I dont know. Aside from the garter, there is also a rubber strips of 1 inch width and 1/8 inch thick. Also place some small pieces of wood strips in the edges where I want to push the ribs in. The ribs and the plates (rear and front) are bending so much and needs to be clamped and wrap around. Two things: 1) If you just clamp it from the front plate to back plate then rib will pop out. 2) If you clamp it to ribs criss crossing then the plates push out. So above way is the best.

Note: Normally, the ribs are the one done first… but in this case, I then finished the two plates first. Actually the plates are new and ribs are old… this makes it difficult to do… that is also the reason why restoration and repairs are difficult to do.

But life must go on… there is no turning back as long as there is no damages that are not beyond repair. I take out the garter and tapes just when the glue had a little bit dry (this is the time when there are no more white glue instead a transparent glue.) I noticed that there are some bulging on one of the ribs. So I reclamp it carefull and manage to put it to the right place. I forgot to take photos because my hands all wet with glue.

After this…. SANDING …. SCRAPING and here it is…










You can see that the ribs are already shorter and I have to square it so that I can glue another strip on it.









Notice how clean it is after several scraping and sanding the neck and the ribs.



















And the front…










UP TO HERE at this time…
Next in line will be the interesting fretboard…. facing the following problems:
No dimension of the fret spacing….
The fretboard is not fitting correctly with the front plate… but it fits on the neck…
The frets in brass has to be made… I cannot buy the right stuff in the store…They always offer steel.

Here is the one I need from you…
Can I still make the rosette? My daughter said it will be good if it will have a design on the front! Marquetry is the best… Paul is expert on this… but I have my second thought that if ever I will make it on this… it will be a nice first marquetry but it will be very difficult and I might destroy this bandurria just because of the ambitious thing to do. I should do it on other project but not on this bulging surface and has only 1/8 inch board… As long as there is music to be produced that is okay for me…. Let me have your suggestions.

On the way to go tomorrow for the fretboard…
Till then… Have a nice weekend.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Bandurria Rib Glued*
> 
> Here is the progress of the Bandurria picolo continued from this blog.
> 
> ...


Wow, looks really nice Bert. Excellent work!


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## littlecope (Oct 23, 2008)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Bandurria Rib Glued*
> 
> Here is the progress of the Bandurria picolo continued from this blog.
> 
> ...


Nice Work Bert!
It sounds like you are uncomfortable with adding the embellishment, or Rosette… Don't!
It looks perfectly fine now, and as you say, the sweet music that will come from the instrument
will be embellishment enough!


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Bandurria Rib Glued*
> 
> Here is the progress of the Bandurria picolo continued from this blog.
> 
> ...


This is interesting. It turned out nicely, Bert.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## scrollgirl (May 28, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Bandurria Rib Glued*
> 
> Here is the progress of the Bandurria picolo continued from this blog.
> 
> ...


It is really coming along nice, Bert! What a lot of work! Thanks for taking the time to share the process with us! 

Sheila


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## BertFlores58 (May 26, 2010)

*VIOLIN JIG - The CLAMP for bending*

This is the progress for the previous blog I made.

Just look at the pictures.









The long bolts are pedestals and pins for the clamps. I used the 3 holes to make it standing.



















It started from a flat steel bar drilled with three holes. Then bended squarely on both ends just enough to be away so that it will accomodate the small ebony piece that will be the push block. A push bolt with a knob was taken from the locking screw of scrapped pedestal. The nut should have been welded for the knob but I have these scraps so I made use of them. I have riveted then instead of welding.

Remember I have to make plenty of these (probably 14 pieces). Right now, I was able to finish 3 pieces.










Wait and see…. Have to make at least 6 in all for the C ribs… and put it to test. Hope it will work.

Thanks for viewing… My only time is weekends…

Have a nice weekend.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *VIOLIN JIG - The CLAMP for bending*
> 
> This is the progress for the previous blog I made.
> 
> ...


Bert,

Very innovative. Looks like you are making progress. :>)


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

BertFlores58 said:


> *VIOLIN JIG - The CLAMP for bending*
> 
> This is the progress for the previous blog I made.
> 
> ...


Looks good Bert, can't wait to see it in action.


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## scrollgirl (May 28, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *VIOLIN JIG - The CLAMP for bending*
> 
> This is the progress for the previous blog I made.
> 
> ...


Very cool! I am looking forward to seeing you use it. 

Sheila


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## BertFlores58 (May 26, 2010)

*Violin 2 - Jig for the ribs on action*

Took me a little while to do the steel work on the jig. 
Have to make the somewhat C-clamp with push block. Cutting threaded bars and looking for the nuts. Shaping the push blocks (made from ebony) become tiresome after making 16 pieces. These are made from scraps.

Here are some self explanatory photos… I give notes on some important aspects and ideas that you can grab suited for your project and availability of materials:









Notes: 
1) The piece that was bended was narra ripped by handsaw with vertical grain orientation; sanded to the final thickness of 1 mm thick. I tried the longitudinal way (horizontal grain orientation) but it splits because narra is medium hard wood and brittle. On vertical grain orientation, the grain has strong quality vertically and during the bending, some portion (specially those in the sharp curve) it splits but can still be recovered by gluing. I need the vertical strength for the violin ribs because it supports both the back and front plate. The secret of bending this Narra wood is boiling it directly in contact with water. If you just steam it… the hotness will not be enough as the steam quickly dries up and easily cool down and the narra regains its brittleness quickly as it dries. (I never tried heating it with the electric heaters.)

2) I underestimated the length of the C-clamp (not all but few). It was too close that I could not insert the rib plus the wood strip and the vinyl retainer into the jig and push block. The solution was to reduce the diameter of the crossing pin. You can visibly see at above picture that one c-clamp is using an old concrete drill as the pin. It works with a little bit of idea… GOOD THINKING.

3) Another point is the length of the wood strips. In this design, I have no idea how long it will be so I made the upper rib longer. This protrusion on the corners made it so difficult to insert the C-rib on the jig. There is no solution but to cut it in place. This has resulted into a damage to one corner (split and crack). THIS IS THE REASON why those professional VIOLIN maker uses a CORNER POST instead of the one above that the ribs are joint end to end at the corners. Well this is the challenge I got… Anyway, the violin I am restoring is a vintage one not the modern one.

LEARNING IDEA: The planning was there but none was done on the sketches. The available materials are just leftover and scrap… TARGET is to build a jig at low cost. PROTOTYPE must be considered as PRECIOUS as it will become the ORIGINAL. In my case, the idea was only to build what I need for the restoration of my violin, but in the later end… this become a promising jig for making more violins in the future. Notice that I used EBONY push blocks to have a lasting jig and I was rewarded by it with each strength… the bolts that pushes the blocks did not even punctured the ebony.









Another close up look on the C-rib clamped on the jig.









Here is the amazing way I discovered. The retainer piece I use is vinyl and boiled them together with the rib and the push block. Then while hot, just bend to shape. Quite easy. When the vinyl cools down, it retained the shape. I clamp the edges to the vise to prevent spring-back while cooling.









LEARNING IDEA: The point of thinking is boundless. Though this is small size, but a controlled automatic steamer or boiler like this is the one that will solve my bending problem. This is an actual sterilizer. This is were I dipped those ribs..

Meantime while the ribs are clamped and still wet, I have to regroove the plates…









I found that the grooves are dirty and I used the dremel to clean it and widen it a bit just enough to hold the ribs. 
LESSON LEARNED: The error most of the time is trying to force something that will not fit. Cleaning and rework are the things that should be done rather than consuming a lot of time trying the impossible thing.

THE RIBS STAYED in form overnight… Early morning last Sunday, I was surprise of the success.. Took out the clams and here it is after fitting it to the plate..

























FITTING BOTH PLATES without glue….Here are photos that I fitted both front and bottom plate….




























SO, Until then. As you can see, nothing is unusual that I will back out from it. So life must go on 
NEXT will be the hardest of them all….
HOW WILL YOU CLAMP BOTH PLATES WITH THE RIBS IN BETWEEN?

Hope you enjoy this portion, as this is the real part of the game in making the ribs of the violin and the jig in action.

Have a nice day!
Thanks,


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## Woodwrecker (Aug 11, 2008)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Violin 2 - Jig for the ribs on action*
> 
> Took me a little while to do the steel work on the jig.
> Have to make the somewhat C-clamp with push block. Cutting threaded bars and looking for the nuts. Shaping the push blocks (made from ebony) become tiresome after making 16 pieces. These are made from scraps.
> ...


I think you have steadier hands and a more graceful touch then I do my friend.
Nice work.


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## scrollgirl (May 28, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Violin 2 - Jig for the ribs on action*
> 
> Took me a little while to do the steel work on the jig.
> Have to make the somewhat C-clamp with push block. Cutting threaded bars and looking for the nuts. Shaping the push blocks (made from ebony) become tiresome after making 16 pieces. These are made from scraps.
> ...


What an involved process, Bert! Thank you for sharing this with us, as it is an education for everyone. It looks like it is coming along nicely, though. I'll be watching for the next segment.

Take care, Sheila


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Violin 2 - Jig for the ribs on action*
> 
> Took me a little while to do the steel work on the jig.
> Have to make the somewhat C-clamp with push block. Cutting threaded bars and looking for the nuts. Shaping the push blocks (made from ebony) become tiresome after making 16 pieces. These are made from scraps.
> ...


Bert,

How often do you walk away and come back? LOL! Lots of clamps and creativity!


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Violin 2 - Jig for the ribs on action*
> 
> Took me a little while to do the steel work on the jig.
> Have to make the somewhat C-clamp with push block. Cutting threaded bars and looking for the nuts. Shaping the push blocks (made from ebony) become tiresome after making 16 pieces. These are made from scraps.
> ...


Some really impressive work and creative jigs Bert. I like your idea with the vinyl strap too. I can see that it isn't easy to get specialized tools where you live, so you just make them! I'm looking forward to the next episode.


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## BertFlores58 (May 26, 2010)

*Violin 2 - Assembly of the body*

After the bouts or sides or ribs been done, the next is to assemble the whole body including the neck and scroll head.

CLAMPS. Though I can use spring clamps and other models, the problem lies in the limited clamping space of the plates. The flat surface (perpendicular portion to the ribs) of the plates that are parallel to each other is only 3/8 inch or less measuring from the edges towards the center. This gives a small space for clamping which often times spring clamps and F-clamps slips. Caution, if you push more in towards the center of the plates, then the curves of the plates might be destroyed furthermore, increased inclination of the clamping surfaces will contribute more on the slipping of the clamps. Aside from these, you will need plenty of clamping points that bigger clamps will not help in this situation. SO HERE IS THE SOLUTION.










IDEAS: The clamping blocks use are rectangular ebony (black) and Philippine's teak (white) that are strong and hard wood. Circular shape is not a problem but the clamping space is bit extended when it is rectangular. The aluminum pipe is just a millimeter or two shorter than the finished height of the rib..(in my case, the rib height are all the same so the pipes were cut of same length.) Without the pipe, clamping is impossible because the drilled holes for my threaded bar (bolt) is bigger. If the holes will be exact to the bolt diameter, it will be possible however it will be difficult for the clamping blocks to slide during the tightening added to the difficulty of inserting the bolt to the blocks. (It took me a hard time to explain this… well if you get it… then go for it but if not you can experiment and realize what I mean.) It is also better to use bigger diameter pipe as it allows more stability when in place. Also please use circular pipe cutter rather than hacksaw… to avoid uneven pipe ends and filing of the edges. Note: All the pipes and threaded bar (M10) used are just leftovers but I bought 20 nuts.. nice savings.)

ASSEMBLY:
The design of the VIOLIN 2 is so difficult to assemble. I had several try of testing the rib to match the grooves of the plates. Only when I was satisfied that I glue it.









Final fitting test… ensure that everything is in place. Took out the clamps and only masking tape are the one holding the pieces.

Now the worries:
The neck with the scroll is in one piece including the attachment piece of the plates. I was planning to adapt the modern way of constructing using corners and end blocks separate with the neck and scroll but I will lose the originality of the maker. So no matter what lets go on with it….

WITHOUT GLUE YET…..
























Notice that there is no neck and scroll in the above… my target is just the use of ribclamp and its most strategic position.

Now the gluing of the front plate with the neck and scroll already in. My decision is to glue first the front plate and let the back plate unglue so that I can inspect and add more glue later. Actually, my worry is on the ends and corners whether I need to reinforce it. Additionally, I like to brush little bit of glue around the inside part of the ribs to add more strength. Then here it is….










I use my big clamp for the neck joint to the plates… This is important that it is strongly jointed together… this point is subjected to a lot of tension when the strings are tightened.

























Notice the bottom block is clamp with Spring clamps to provide the correct position.. But just don't mind my tummy on the background… LOL.

Now the back plate remove…. partially dried then I apply more glue…

















The clamps is further holding on the neck and the endblock.

In the morning after overnight drying….


























LOOKING GOOD… BUT IF I WOULD BE HONEST as I always do in my blog… Here is the picture of it..








IDEA: In some restricted areas where a clamp is impossible, I use a brad (smallest I use is 1/2 inch) or nail that is hammered in to the point where you need to push or prevent from twisting. Anyway the holes that is produced by the brads can be plug it by refilling it with glue and dust of same material. A secret revealed but some may say… IT IS A FAILURE.. Just don't forget to remove it later… DO NOT NAIL it there..which if you do… there is no chance of getting it out.

SO THE NEXT POINT IS JUST CLOSING IT. Once closed… then it is as good as done. That will be next opportunity. As you know, this is only my past time and weekend work. Thanks for the comments and I hope you enjoy viewing, reading and understanding what I would like to share.

Have a nice day!
Regards to all,


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Violin 2 - Assembly of the body*
> 
> After the bouts or sides or ribs been done, the next is to assemble the whole body including the neck and scroll head.
> 
> ...


Bert,

In your case you may never have toooooo Many clamps! Nice blogging! Nice to see innovation and creativity.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Violin 2 - Assembly of the body*
> 
> After the bouts or sides or ribs been done, the next is to assemble the whole body including the neck and scroll head.
> 
> ...


Good result Bert. I have seen guitar makers do their glue up by wrapping all around with a length of something which looks like a tire inner tube cut into long strips about 2" wide. I was wondering if this clamping technique would work for a violin.


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## BertFlores58 (May 26, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Violin 2 - Assembly of the body*
> 
> After the bouts or sides or ribs been done, the next is to assemble the whole body including the neck and scroll head.
> 
> ...


Thomas,
Thanks.. as the saying goes… Nothing is impossible! If you don't have it… Make it.

Mike,
Thanks … that interior bike tube rubber is really good as it is flat and elongation is high. I use garters nowadays because the strength is controlled throughout. When you pull the garter, there is a limit because of the cloth bonding to it (actually it is the weave of the cloth that allows the pull and push… maximum pull is when the weave are already fully stretch.) The rubber sometimes breaks and it will spank you in return saying… you are pulling me hard already….. lol. 
The violin is different because what is needed is only the push top and bottom. the guitar has some lining that acts as stopper for the inner movement. The lining for the violin is attached to the rib or bouts while the guitar is attached to the back and front plates.

I am very glad for alerting me on other aspects. Also other readers… thanks for viewing.


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## BertFlores58 (May 26, 2010)

*Finally the violins are restored completely*

The final assembly came out very good. The violin 2 passed thru my expectation with respect to sound and strength. I am happy how it came out. The sound is perfect and high enough. The vibration of the plates including the bottom is remarkably balanced. I can fell the effect of the bridge prolong vibrations.

The last phase came up with the gluing of the bottom plate, the fretboard, and the fixing of the tailpiece. I made the bridge accordingly using a special medium hard wood.










In order for me to cut the design, I file one of the coping saw blades to reduce the width. I manually file and sand to shape the right design and thickness to it. Patience was the all the expense I have. Several trial pieces were wasted just to do this bridge. However, if you want to buy… it is expensive.

So here are to pictures of the two violins:



















Since these two are family heritage, I hope my father (out there) would be happy seeing how these instruments were restored. May this be a contribution to the next generation what my father left to us.

On the violins' restoration… I had learnt a lot of new techniques and skill in making or restoring violins. I appreciate much those who had helped me during in terms of comment. You are part of my inspiration too.
Thanks. But this is not the end yet. I have the banduria and octavina to still ongoing restoration.

I would like to ask everyone who reads this restoration…. Will it be okay to post this as project as it is only repaired and restored… not my own? If yes, then I will post it.


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## GeoCol (Sep 15, 2011)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Finally the violins are restored completely*
> 
> The final assembly came out very good. The violin 2 passed thru my expectation with respect to sound and strength. I am happy how it came out. The sound is perfect and high enough. The vibration of the plates including the bottom is remarkably balanced. I can fell the effect of the bridge prolong vibrations.
> 
> ...


Bert I admire your skill and patience to do this. As far as I am concerned, you should definitely post this.


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## Woodwrecker (Aug 11, 2008)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Finally the violins are restored completely*
> 
> The final assembly came out very good. The violin 2 passed thru my expectation with respect to sound and strength. I am happy how it came out. The sound is perfect and high enough. The vibration of the plates including the bottom is remarkably balanced. I can fell the effect of the bridge prolong vibrations.
> 
> ...


Beautiful work Bert.
I enjoyed this series very much.
Thank you.


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## scrollgirl (May 28, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Finally the violins are restored completely*
> 
> The final assembly came out very good. The violin 2 passed thru my expectation with respect to sound and strength. I am happy how it came out. The sound is perfect and high enough. The vibration of the plates including the bottom is remarkably balanced. I can fell the effect of the bridge prolong vibrations.
> 
> ...


Beautiful outcome on both accounts Bert. Your patience certainly paid off. Thank you for taking the time to catalog your process and share it with us. I am sure we all learned a great deal from watching you work.

They certainly look lovely!

sheila


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## BertFlores58 (May 26, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Finally the violins are restored completely*
> 
> The final assembly came out very good. The violin 2 passed thru my expectation with respect to sound and strength. I am happy how it came out. The sound is perfect and high enough. The vibration of the plates including the bottom is remarkably balanced. I can fell the effect of the bridge prolong vibrations.
> 
> ...


Thanks to all.
Sheila, Good to hear from you. Thanks,
With those gained skills, I think I can make one on my own with only the carving of scroll and the plates. When time warrants and materials too… I wiil try.
Have a nice day!


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## scrollgirl (May 28, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Finally the violins are restored completely*
> 
> The final assembly came out very good. The violin 2 passed thru my expectation with respect to sound and strength. I am happy how it came out. The sound is perfect and high enough. The vibration of the plates including the bottom is remarkably balanced. I can fell the effect of the bridge prolong vibrations.
> 
> ...


Now wouldn't that be wonderful, Bert? I would love to see you do that! Your skill is always something that I admire and I think it would be a wonderful challenge to you. I wish you a great day! 

Sheila


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Finally the violins are restored completely*
> 
> The final assembly came out very good. The violin 2 passed thru my expectation with respect to sound and strength. I am happy how it came out. The sound is perfect and high enough. The vibration of the plates including the bottom is remarkably balanced. I can fell the effect of the bridge prolong vibrations.
> 
> ...


Your restorations came out beautiful Bert. I hope you will find a lot of joy making music with them. Not only you but the next generation as well.

I certainly hope you will post the next restorations Bert. It is woodworking for sure and as far as I know that is the only criteria we require, and we frequently break the rules even for that with no complaints.


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## littlecope (Oct 23, 2008)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Finally the violins are restored completely*
> 
> The final assembly came out very good. The violin 2 passed thru my expectation with respect to sound and strength. I am happy how it came out. The sound is perfect and high enough. The vibration of the plates including the bottom is remarkably balanced. I can fell the effect of the bridge prolong vibrations.
> 
> ...


Those came out beautifully Bert, I'm sure that your Father would be very proud for what you have done…
These will be passed down in your Family for generations to come!
You should definitely post these as a Project! They are finished and they are made from Wood…


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## BertFlores58 (May 26, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Finally the violins are restored completely*
> 
> The final assembly came out very good. The violin 2 passed thru my expectation with respect to sound and strength. I am happy how it came out. The sound is perfect and high enough. The vibration of the plates including the bottom is remarkably balanced. I can fell the effect of the bridge prolong vibrations.
> 
> ...


Mike 2x and George,
Thanks to all of you. With both of you agreeing on posting it as project… and so be it. Now it is posted. 
Have a nice day.


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## BertFlores58 (May 26, 2010)

*Octavina*

Octavina is a family of bandurria. Just simply an octave lower than a bandurria. It belongs to a 14 strings family that consist of Octavina, Laud, and Bandurria.

Though, nothing so special compared to an acoustic guitar construction, except that this should be a little bit stronger and smaller than that of a normal guitar. The frets are exactly spaced as the guitar depending on the total span of the frets. However, the notes are not so arranged to make chords but rather to produced a vibrato melody. The alto of a rondalla.

The time I received this 40 years old octavina, there is not hope in restoring it but to make repairs. Here are some of the condition when I found it:

1. The head is split into pieces. The tuning mechanism are still there but not moving anymore. Needs to be reconstructed.

2. Bouts in the ends are still in good condition but there was spliting on one piece at the tail portion.

3. The frets are in good shape since these are made of brass. The good thing is the fretboard can be unglued to the neck easily. Probably because of the glue quality used years ago.

4. The back plate and front plates were split on each joint. I cannot find the other half. These I have to make my own back and front plates. Luckily, I have pieces of jackfruit board that I have sawn manually and used it.

5. Other pieces that needs to be replaced: Tailpiece, bridge and the trimings and brace for the plates.

Based on my assessment, it is better to buy a new one rather than restore it. The neck, head and fretboard are just made of ordinary wood. It is a cheap! But the sentimental value of it being a family heritage, I have to restore it. In making it, I will be making nearly 80 per cent of the materials renewed. What will be left and be used back are: Bouts, frets and the neck.

Despite of the hardship and difficulty, I have made the process as simple and scientifically composed of trial and error. I have to make a jig to form the exact shape and trim. This work is redundant with the violin making and no need to go back to step by step explaining. So below are the photos of how far I am now in the restoration.

*THE FRONT WITH NECK AND HEAD*









Notice the shape exactly as guitar but only smaller.









The flipside… you will never see this again when assembled.









The head… totally repaired. I made a plate that has to become the backing then reconstruct the middle part and the end part. (Take a close up view.. you can see the wood differences in the color and grain near the neck. Also, there are no holes yet on the middle ridge for the tuning pins.) What I used is only the two sides where the tuning mechanisms should be attached. Near the neck, I use 4 dowels of brass materials (1/8 diameter) to make it strong. I cannot use a wood or screw because the diameter are so big while the brass pin are just enough acting like nails on it. The glue helps also in it. If this was not restored, I will not post through with the restoration.









Here is the basis of how cheap those early people to do such extraneous job using a low quality of wood. They use thinner board to make the neck and head then extended a piece to complete it on the post section. What a nice saving technique. Well, the good story about this octavina… it played for nearly 10 years in our family rondalla.









The fretboard… again this is softwood.. not ebony or any hardwood. It was just painted.










THE PLATES…. I AM PROUD I MADE THEM MYSELF ..
The new plates are made from the jackfruit that I was the one who seasoned it for nearly 2 years staying in my file of lumbers just waiting to be a part of an instruments. The wait is really worth.

The backplate…









The new backplate… I made it.. I am happy with it including the sound. The test I use is to just knock and then find if there is a cracking sound… Well sounds good… Notice the beauty of the grain pattern. The black spots are normal with the jackfruit but don't worry is is really solid and not cracking.

The front plate…









The strength of this board will be tested when the 14 strings are tightened and the push on the bridge will push it. My design as you noticed, I make a bulging effect on the middle (camber).

Up to here only… The bouts will come next then the final test…

Hope you enjoy reading and learned something about restoring and repairing musical instruments.

Have a nice day!!


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## scrollgirl (May 28, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Octavina*
> 
> Octavina is a family of bandurria. Just simply an octave lower than a bandurria. It belongs to a 14 strings family that consist of Octavina, Laud, and Bandurria.
> 
> ...


Good morning Bert. It looks like it is going to be lovely. This is a great informational series. 

Sheila


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## littlecope (Oct 23, 2008)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Octavina*
> 
> Octavina is a family of bandurria. Just simply an octave lower than a bandurria. It belongs to a 14 strings family that consist of Octavina, Laud, and Bandurria.
> 
> ...


It will be a brand new instrument when you are done with it Bert
and you will be an Instrument Maker, not a restorer anymore…
I'm amazed at how quickly you have worked on these various restorations!
You have said that you don't have a lot of time, but you only started these blogs
41 days ago, and you are already on your third or fourth project!
You are a Natural my Friend, Very Well Done!!


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## BertFlores58 (May 26, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Octavina*
> 
> Octavina is a family of bandurria. Just simply an octave lower than a bandurria. It belongs to a 14 strings family that consist of Octavina, Laud, and Bandurria.
> 
> ...


Thanks Sheila. Some of my officemate said that I need to rest for a while to express fully how the process of doing things. The truth is I do write when I have the right mood and not stresssed. I also think what the readers would get out of it. Actually, it is hard to get a person to like ….
Have a nice morning start.

Thanks Mike. I do it with the strenght from my family.. To make it quick… I avoid mistake. There will be no turning back on this kind of job. You cannot repeat and redo. Got only one chance… but you need a lot of trial and error. I dont want to check on those scrap pieces just for making the trim. It is true that i do it on Saturdays and Sundays however there are times that my mind is into it thinking on what should be done next. 
Have a nice day.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Octavina*
> 
> Octavina is a family of bandurria. Just simply an octave lower than a bandurria. It belongs to a 14 strings family that consist of Octavina, Laud, and Bandurria.
> 
> ...


Bert,

You said "it's old and cheaper to buy a new one" but making these things as you are will produce a new instrument, maybe better than others? As you gain knowledge through experience, your name on an instrument will be a special piece. Thanks for sharing your journey.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

BertFlores58 said:


> *Octavina*
> 
> Octavina is a family of bandurria. Just simply an octave lower than a bandurria. It belongs to a 14 strings family that consist of Octavina, Laud, and Bandurria.
> 
> ...


Nice work Bert. After all of these restorations I can imagine that building new instruments would not be a big challenge for you. Do you intend to build any from scratch?


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