# Aging in the workshop



## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

While this doesn't pertain to me, I am somewhat worried about my father. Not sure what he was ripping on my Unisaw, but I watched him pushing the off cut with one of my push blocks instead of the piece between the blade. It didn't kick back, just sat there until the next cut was made. I was both terrified and discouraged as to how to approach this topic as he at least at one point in time understood everything that can go wrong and how to reduce the chance of an accident with virtually every tool imaginable. The scariest thing is he lives 600 miles away and has been buying a few smaller tools as needed to make up for a massive property liquidation necessitated from moving from a big house in the burbs to a loft downtown. Now retired and out in the country, his space, time and budget will allow him to get anything he wants, whether it's a good idea or not. This singular safety infraction has me wondering if/when an injury will occur due to forgotten knowledge and/or lightweight portable tools that are being pushed beyond their limits. Any advise on how to handle this?


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## agallant (Jul 1, 2010)

I watch my father do stupid things from time to time. I just let it go. I may give him a tip every now and then but I think most of the time it just falls on def ears.


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## revanson11 (Jan 5, 2012)

Honest and sincerely is the best way. I am 63 and from time to time my loving wife will catch me doing something that I shouldn't and just ask "is that the best way to do that". It very much depends on your relationship with your father. Have you always been open and frank when you are talking? Does he take offense easily when you question something he is doing or not doing? I have come to realize that even in my 60's I need to stop and think things through, especially things that might be slightly dangerous. What you described should be of concern to you, who knows maybe the next time he does that the kickback could be aimed at you. And maybe that is a way to broach the subject in that he is not the only one that his actions are putting in danger, it could be anyone standing behind him. I'm sure he would be devastated if he was to inflict an injury on another. Best of luck.

Randy


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## natenaaron (Jun 24, 2013)

Tell him how it is and why his bone headed move scared you. When you were a kid I am sure he would have been the first to correct you.

Think of it as payback for the grief he gave you when you were a kid.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

My dad worked till he was 84 but in the last couple of years before we had to take his toys away he ran his hand through the table saw twice. He never remembered what he had done to get hurt.

If he can get anything he wants and really wants to work with a table saw, talk him into a Sawstop. Make him use a Gripper to push cuts through. This way you can present him with new tools with safety features and not be condemning his present methods.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

It may not apply to you now, but some day it will. I am 79 and still operate potentially dangerous machinery. I am still fully aware of the dangers involved and still observe all precautions. The one thing that could bring about my downfall is reduction in reaction time. I have previously stated that physical limitations have curtailed my shop time. I don't intend to stop all shop work, but I do have to rethink my shop strategy. As long as my mind is fully working (no Alzeheimers or dementia) I will find out how to work smarter and work around any current limitations. Sometimes old people can be stubborn and just a plain PITA. If this is the case, you will not change him. All you can do is let him do what he wants. He feels he has earned that right and I couldn't agree more. My son is 40. and he still listens to me in the shop. He is very smart in his own field, but he still listens to me in the shop. he recognizes me as an authority in what I do and I recognize his abilitys.


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## Purrmaster (Sep 1, 2012)

You're a good person to be so concerned about your father. People will tear me a new one for suggesting this but do you think you could talk him into a SawStop?


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

I'm sure I couldn't convince him a stop saw would be a good idea, despite the obvious safety benefits, it would be viewed as too much that could go wrong. He always liked buying cars with the minimum available options, if a car didn't have any features, then they couldn't break! As far as breaching the subject, that's what I'm trying to figure out. I remember when my grandpa couldn't drive anymore and it was going to be someone's responsibility to tell him that, I was just glad I was a generation removed so I knew it wouldn't be my problem. Luckily he figured it out on his own without hurting anyone. Now I'm in the hot seat and while I'm sure dad still know what to do to be safe, keeping him doing it consistently is going to be the real challenge.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

It's hard for folks to break old habits,if your father has been doing this for a long time,he may not see the danger involved since he's gotten away with it for years. A reminder is worth a try and if he does what he's been doing the same way he always has done it then you've tried the best you could. Perhaps a gripper would be a nice gift. I really believe in the SAW Stop technology so if that's in his budget I would strongly recommend it, It still won't stop Kick backs.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

*Talk him into a Sawstop. 
Make him use a Gripper to push cuts through. *

This way you can present him with new tools with better safety features and not be condemning his present methods.

*If the Sawstop is too much to go wrong to suit him, at least promote the Gripper.*
Lots of folks on this site think very highly of this accessory.

I know I already said this in post #4 above, but it didn't seem to get much traction.


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## teejk (Jan 19, 2011)

Old dogs…new tricks??? He learned his methods long before the internet or cable tv explained the engineering of working with wood safely (or "more safely" since wood sometimes will object to being cut). It takes a bad incident or a near miss to change. Best you can hope for is having a good first aid kit in the shop. And when he does come around with multiple band-aids, use it as an opportunity to ask him what happened…it might open the door to discussing techniques that would minimize it without lecturing.


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## Purrmaster (Sep 1, 2012)

Let's hope it's just multiple band-aids and not lost digits.

My experience with my SawStop has been that is very little you need to do as far as the safety system. Basically you may need to adjust the position of the brake cartridge when you swap blades. And you need to wait a few seconds when you switch on the main power for the electronics to run a self check.

But if you can't talk him into it, you can't. If his saws don't have good guards on them perhaps you could get him some better guards. And make/buy a bunch of grippers and push sticks.

But as you've said the main idea is to breach the subject with him. I wish I had some tips for you on that one but I'm afraid I don't. Before too long I'll have to bring this up to my own parents about driving and other potentially dangerous activities and I'm not looking forward to it.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

The answer depends on your relationship with your dad. With mine, the older he got the smarter he thought I was! He really wouldn't take advice/criticism from me until he was about 70.


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## Momcanfixit (Sep 19, 2012)

I don't envy you, you're in a tough spot. In my opinion, honesty is the best policy. You did mention it was your Unisaw, so you may want to ask yourself what you would do if anyone else was using your saw a way that wasn't safe.

To play devil's advocate, you're 600 miles away, and I presume that your father is still fully independent, driving etc. So my best advice is to tell him that you're worried and then let it go.

Several years ago, I had an issue with my mother's driving (NOT age related) She had backed into the ditch and then a car within 3 days with my kids in the car. I agonized over it and then told her that I would feel better if she would agree to go out with an instructor for a couple of hours to improve her backing up. She did and quite enjoyed it.

Good luck.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

He really doesn't want to buy anything else at this point, given that the portable saw he got is still fairly new. He insisted on trimming out the small living space they have above their garage before the main house was built. It was a decent amount of work and not only does it look good, but no injuries were reported, and if anything happened, my mother would have let me know.


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## kepy (Mar 5, 2012)

Be careful about trying to put on limitations. If you take away something he enjoys, it might also take away part of his reason for living. My Grandfather continued making and using his shop even after he was declared legally blind. I am now 74 and know what would happen if someone tried to impose their wishes on me.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*AGING IN THE WORKSHOP - "...While this doesn't pertain to me, I am somewhat worried about…"

Yep, me too! All of my friends have gotten old and "Yewglee (ugly), BUT NOT ME! I am getting younger every day!

I can't wait to go through "reverse" puberty, nursing on the ("a") bottle, wearing diapers, and all that good stuff!... Uhh… Hmm…...... Well uhh wait a minute, that all Depends...


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Always wondered what you kept under that do rag Mike.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

A Sawstop is not the answer. There are many other tools in the shop that can cause serious injury. Despite his age, you cannot dictate his life and how he lives it. You can make suggestions, but don't expect him to abide by them. Sometime what you may think is for his own good may be worse. If he feels you are interferring in his life, he will resent it. I know I would at 79. What else can I say? Let him live his life the way he wants. It's his life, his decisions, his responsibility.

I've lived through the same thing with my father. He was not a woodworker or into anything. He lived his life quietly, cooked a fine meal now and then and went quietly. At no time did I try to control him into doing anything he didn't want to do. Off course everyone's situation is different. Only you know what is right for you.


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## Quixote (Jun 9, 2008)

My approach with my father was to ask him for his advice, and what he would advise you to do.

Tell him what you saw, and share your concerns.

This is how my father finally gave us the keys to his car, when he was no longer safe to drive.


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## Woodbutchery (Aug 1, 2008)

In the end, talk with him about it. No admonishment, just bring up the thing that causes concern and let him know you are worried. Remember that you are trying to make a point and be calm even if there is a negative reaction.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

At 73 I don't mind getting advice from anyone, even my grandkids. That doesn't mean I have to take whatever advice I get, but regardless, I am grateful when anyone is concerned enough about my health and safety to say something about it to me. So I think you could well mention your concerns to your father and remind him that you are doing it for his benefit out of your love for him if he seems cantankerous about it.

I do try to follow the safety rules when operating equipment or anything else I'm doing, but I'm far from a fanatic on the subject and I respect anyone who wants to do things his/her way in their own shop.

One thing I don't like is when potentially dangerous practices are exercised in woodworking videos. Inexperienced folks are not likely to recognize the dangers and will likely copy what they have seen done, thinking that if it is good enough for the 'expert' in the video, it is good enough for him too. We can do whatever we please in our own shops because we set the rules there, but I believe it is irresponsible to demonstrate dangerous work techniques in videos.


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## DesertRatTom (Oct 22, 2012)

I agree with the idea of giving him a Gripper. But I'd emphasize the control during a rip cut. The thing about the Gripper is that it allows you to apply pressure three ways at once, while keeping your hand away from the blade. You press down to hold the piece in place so it won't climb out on the blade. You press in toward the fence, which keeps your cut straight, aligned with the fence. You press forward to move the piece through the saw. I'm not really much of a Saw Stop guy. If the wood is moist (higher than 4 percent), and fresh wood often is, it will trigger the cartridge and usually destroys the blade. There goes at least a $50 blade and a $70 cartridge. If you're using a dado set, you need to change out the whole mechanism and put in the dado stop. I'm 70 and am certain I'd forget to turn the safety feature off when making something of redwood for outdoors, which I often do. So, I went with a Laguna Fusion cabinet style saw, which had a riving knife and a blade guard with splitter. Very convenient to use and more than adequate safety features for most people, particularly when combined with the Gripper when using only the riving knife. I also love the simplicity of this saw and when set up properly, its extremely accurate-that simplicity and accuracy should appeal to your dad. Plenty of power on 115v circuit although it is available with 220v motor.

One other suggestion is to go visit and help him build an outfeed table for his saw if he doesn't have one. This is a really good safety feature because it will prevent the piece from tipping up and getting caught by the blade. Bring along a Gripper gift wrapped. It comes with a video. Leave the video sealed and ask if you can watch it with him. If its unopened, they you're learning something together, not imposing it on him. I got the hardware kit from Rockler, but it may not work on a portable.


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## odug8 (Jun 9, 2013)

I recently saw my neighbor using a table saw, managing to break just about every safety rule I have heard of. You name it, he was doing it wrong. Tim is in his forties, smart, successful, friendly…but obviously needed some direction.
I simply asked, "Would you mind a suggestion?" He said sure, and it all worked out. If he had declined, at least I would have known I had made the offer.
On the other hand, my father in law, an 85 year old retired pattern maker, recently used a jointer on 40 1/2×1/2×4" long pieces-he was making a home made Jinga game-no guards or push sticks at all. I got chills. When I suggested there may be a safer way to proceed, he said with a smile, "after you've done this for 60 years, you can give me advice." 
He has never once even had a splinter…what am I going to tell him?
He is like a father to me, but sometimes I have to leave the shop.


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