# Power tool safety



## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

I'm sure this post will generate some negative responses. We have to take driver education courses to obtain a driver's license. We take firearms safety courses for the same reason. Why then do we not have power tool safety courses before operating power tools? With all the injuries sustained by the improper use of a power tool, a safety course on the safe and proper way to use a power tool would be a commonsense way to lower the accident rate of power tool users. All the power tool safety devices now on the market is being used as a substitute for good power tool technique. Back when schools had shop courses, we were taught safety with power tool use. Today, anyone without the least amount of tool knowledge can buy any tool without question. Accessory manufacturers designed aids to make power tool use safer and are making a bundle of money doing so. In a way, they are contributing to the unsafe use of tools. People will buy a safety device and expect it to protect them from any and every chance of injury when using a dangerous tool. I would like to see a mandatory requirement to take a power tool safety course before you can buy a power tool. Reading an instruction book is not enough since many probably do not read the manual before using the tool. As I said previously, this would meet with negativity, especially the "mandatory" part. But many things in life are mandatory before you can partake. Education is mandatory so tool safety should be considered just an extension of education; what's wrong with that?


----------



## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

A lot of the shared "maker" places they have now require you to take a safety course , or more per device you wish to use. Some i have seen require you to pass a "test" by someone to get checked off complete.


----------



## Knockonit (Nov 5, 2017)

wow, just wow


----------



## Jeff28078 (Aug 27, 2009)

Too many tools with too many safety hazards to be taught in a single course. Plus every tool manual I've gotten recently has half the space devoted to safety. Perhaps the safety course can be simply read your manual.


----------



## woodman71 (Apr 19, 2009)

You got be from California . Please before you post anymore you must give California Proposition 65 warning too. All I can say is if your buying tools and don't know how to use them maybe you should lean how on you own . One more thing you pay for class I'm not, tool cost enough and I don't need someone like you that don't know how to use tool teaching me . Got enough people calling them self teacher don't need another Idiot in class room that can't teach.


----------



## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

Enforcement would be a nightmare.

That said, you bring up good points about school shop classes, they taught more than just how to make something, it was an introduction to tool safety and (hopefully) some common sense about the dangers.

Scouting was a good platform for firearm safety. I remember the smallbore introduction, basically a prep for the hunters safety classes.
Same thing with earning ones privilege for carrying a pocket knife.

Seems these are from a bygone era, more concern now about trying not to offend anyone.


----------



## Chenier (Mar 15, 2019)

> We have to take driver education courses to obtain a driver s license. We take firearms safety courses for the same reason. Why then do we not have power tool safety courses before operating power tools?


You can kill other people through unsafe operation of moving vehicles or firearms. Ditto boats and small aircraft. Even with manadatory safety courses and tests, accidental deaths from those machines are way too common.

It's possible, but generally difficult to hurt or kill anyone other than yourself while operating a power tool. It doesn't happen very often, hence .gov doesn't percieve the need for a rule. As you've noted, tort lawyers seem to be doing a pretty good job of protecting idiots from themselves without requiring further intervention.


----------



## MikeB_UK (Jul 27, 2015)

slippery slope, how long until you need a safety course to chop an onion?


----------



## LeeRoyMan (Feb 23, 2019)

Most people do end up going to school to learn about tool safety.
It's called School of Hard Knox.
After you go there you definitely learn what you did wrong.


----------



## RClark (Jun 1, 2012)

> I m sure this post will generate some negative responses. We have to take driver education courses to obtain a driver s license. We take firearms safety courses for the same reason. Why then do we not have power tool safety courses before operating power tools? With all the injuries sustained by the improper use of a power tool, a safety course on the safe and proper way to use a power tool would be a commonsense way to lower the accident rate of power tool users. All the power tool safety devices now on the market is being used as a substitute for good power tool technique. Back when schools had shop courses, we were taught safety with power tool use. Today, anyone without the least amount of tool knowledge can buy any tool without question. Accessory manufacturers designed aids to make power tool use safer and are making a bundle of money doing so. In a way, they are contributing to the unsafe use of tools. People will buy a safety device and expect it to protect them from any and every chance of injury when using a dangerous tool. I would like to see a mandatory requirement to take a power tool safety course before you can buy a power tool. Reading an instruction book is not enough since many probably do not read the manual before using the tool. As I said previously, this would meet with negativity, especially the "mandatory" part. But many things in life are mandatory before you can partake. Education is mandatory so tool safety should be considered just an extension of education; what s wrong with that?
> 
> - MrRon


OK, so taking the proposition to not-so-far-fetched logical extensions, why stop at power tools?

- Did you have to take a kitchen safety course before you were allowed to use anything in your kitchen?

- Take a snow shovel safety course before shoveling the sidewalk? Lots of folks end up in ERs with back injuries or heart attacks from over-exertion.

- Take a fire safety course before firing up a gas grill or light a charcoal grill for the first time?

- Take a ladder and climbing course before being allowed to change a light bulb?

- Electrical safety course for repairing a defective wall outlet?

- Take a Red Cross approved swimming course before being allowed into a pool? Make all country swimming holes off limits?

- Take an approved safety course before being allowed to cut the lawn?

- Be certified in the safe use of household chemicals before being allowed to cleaning agents like oven cleaner or drain cleaner.

- Be certified in pesticide and fertilizer applications before using Scott's 4-step lawn products or similar?

The government-issued safety certificates before should have picture ID on that certificate. It should include all hand tools. Maybe it should include entries for other tools like multi-meters, plumbing snakes, yadda, yadda, yadda.

OK, ridiculous extensions aside, there's a big difference between requiring driver's education classes and power tool classes for hobbyists. That difference is the impact of a bad driver on those around them. If I misuse a power tool in my home shop, I'm the only one at risk. If I'm operating a motor vehicle in a dangerous manner, then I'm impacting many people around me.


----------



## JCamp (Nov 22, 2016)

Shall not be infringed!!!


----------



## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

I'm all for shop safety, just not real sure I want the Gubmit to regulate it.

I agree that the current set up is LeeRoy's school of hard knocks though.

I'm sure Insurance coverage for injuries will be allowed, or denied based on questions, possibly inspections, after the fact. I can see that coming. Nothing wrong with you cutting off a finger, but if you didn't take steps to protect yourself, don't expect us to pay the bill. I'd say that will be common within the next 10 years. Surprised it already hasn't been.


----------



## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

Make something fool proof and nature will just evolve a better fool.

And of course common sense isn't so common.


----------



## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

well mrRon i guess you got what you thought you would and deserve.i ll say i agree with most of whats been already said.you cant teach people to not be stupid.plus many accidents happen to people that are well trained.thats why there called accidents.hey im from calif. and i agree this state is so over regulated and taxed it's pathetic !!!! sorry ron but i give your idea a big thumbs down.


----------



## northwoodsman (Feb 22, 2008)

Before we beat down MrRon let me present it in a different way. How many of you could easily find an adult woodworking safety class in your area if you wanted to take one? If would have to be convenient, affordable, and have videos available to show real examples of what can and will happen. If it was available would you take it? How often would you take it? Would you be willing to teach it? Why don't large retailers or woodworking clubs or guilds offer these for free? Why don't they offer these online for free? They offer lots of other classes.


----------



## Knockonit (Nov 5, 2017)

so you didn't know about tool safety or neglected to follow tool safety, two different aspects of comment.

common sense goes a long way, and with the advent of youtube and sites like this education in not doing stupid crap can be achieved. Even skilled knowledgable individuals make mistakes, it happens, shoulda coulda woulda.

but the MAN has way too much interference with personal freedom now, adding more only makes us become that which a certain culture is wanting restitution on.

if you can stand the post, with the adventures that come with it, move on, 
rj in az


----------



## BB1 (Jan 29, 2016)

> Before we beat down MrRon let me present it in a different way. How many of you could easily find an adult woodworking safety class in your area if you wanted to take one? If would have to be convenient, affordable, and have videos available to show real examples of what can and will happen. If it was available would you take it? How often would you take it? Would you be willing to teach it? Why don t large retailers or woodworking clubs or guilds offer these for free? Why don t they offer these online for free? They offer lots of other classes.
> 
> - northwoodsman


As someone who learned from watching woodworking videos and reading manuals, I would see value in the option (not required) of local classes. I am thankful I found videos that helped show good technique - so much so that now I occasionally view a YouTube and think - hmmm, that could go bad real fast.


----------



## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

i agree with knockonit,if you wanna be safe there are plenty of sources to get training on your own.forced training will not teach ignorant people to be safe.i dont need or want big brother controlling me anymore than what we already have.


----------



## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> We have to take driver education courses to obtain a driver's license. We take firearms safety courses for the same reason. Why then do we not have power tool safety courses before operating power tools?


You can't kill others with your table saw 

Cheers,
Brad


----------



## DeCe40 (12 mo ago)

I have to take all types of classes for work most deal with safety. By the time I'm done with the class I forgot half of what they said. Sometimes I barely have enough time to use the tool forget about time to take a class on how not to cut my finger off. There's plenty of material out there to learn how to use the tool safely.


----------



## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> Most people do end up going to school to learn about tool safety.
> It s called School of Hard Knox.
> After you go there you definitely learn what you did wrong.
> 
> - LeeRoyMan


Yep, graduates get the 9-finger discount on future lessons.


----------



## bobfromsanluis (Jul 23, 2016)

As a mostly self taught woodworker approaching my seventies in a couple of years, I bought tools when I needed them, and looked around at those who used their tools to make their living, trying to observe how to use the tool in the best manner possible. I cringe thinking about all the bad examples I've seen over the years, and since the explosion of the internet with U tube and other platforms, there is zero excuse for someone not having a basic understanding of how a tool should be used in as safe a manner as possible. My rule of thumb to keep me from doing something stupid is "Does this new operation feel completely safe to do?" If not, I find another way to do it, keeping my fingers away from moving blades, not trying to pull a sharp edged tool towards my body and so on. MrRon, do you think the sales clerk at Home Depot (if you can find one instead of self check out) should ask someone buying a hammer if they know how to use it safely? The responsibility for one's safety is that one person; equipment needs to made so it doesn't fail and injure the person operating it, and all manufacturers do include a lot of safety info in the manuals that come with most tools. No is responsible for your own safety more than you are, period.


----------



## BlasterStumps (Mar 13, 2017)

I understand your concerns MrRon and applaud you for being so safety minded.

I worked for a number of years as a safety director where I trained others on the applicable Subparts found in the 1910 General Industry Standards and 1926 Construction Industry Standards for the electrical industry I was a part of. I worked quite hard to put on training sessions so that my fellow employees would listen and learn. I was constantly preparing myself by attending schools and seminars across the country so that i had the knowledge, training and certifications to teach on the myriad of topics. I became a certified OSHA trainer and certified safety professional. All this in an effort to improve my education and presentation skills so that I could effectively help each one of the employees to be safer in their work.  I like to think that I was effective. I had employees share positive experiences related to one topic or another but I had others that demonstrated a failure to learn from the training information presented to them. I celebrated those that applied the information in their work but I also had to drop the hammer so-to-speak on some that apparently thought when no one was looking they would do as they please.

I put on outreach training to local entities as well. Fire departments, highway work crews, trash collection companies, gravel companies, etc. I had to work quite hard to present the information in a way so that their eyes didn't glass over in the first five minutes. It's a tough thing, getting to people to listen and learn about safety practices. It's just not everyone's cup of tea.


----------



## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Personal safety is a personal issue. There are some people who have no business operating a table saw, the same could be said for cutting down a tree.

Trying to protect people from themselves always results in loss of freedom.


----------



## jkm312 (Jan 13, 2020)

Safety is rules, regs, proper procedure, rightful technique yada yada yada. Another layer is all the legalese written into the first pages of the operator's manuels provided by the corporate lawyers of the insurance companies that underwrite the policies of the tool designer's and manufacturer's. Purpose of those pages is to insulate from lawsuits resulting from injury from improper use of the products. When you read those pages it is clear some of those writers have never ever set foot outside of their bubble. Nuf said.

The larger point in all of this discussion in YOUR ATTITUDE. Either safety and common sense is first and foremost in your mind for yourself and those around you or it isn't. If it isn't and it will be apparent to me, you won't be allowed to work around me. This paragraph was drilled into me by my father. I have passed it on to my sons. I asked that you all do the same for all of those around you.


----------



## ljislink (Aug 22, 2021)

Great idea ! And IMO there should also be a 15 day waiting period before your able to pick up your tools along with a thorough background check.


----------



## hcbph_1 (Apr 11, 2020)

I'm one of those guys from the 60's that took every shop class I could do: 4 years of wood shop and 1 year of farm shop for the metal working tools. I learned a lot about tools in safety in operation. I'm sorry that kids today are not offered the same opportunities I had, it was such a rush. If someone wants that kind of chance today, it's very limited but not impossible in many cases. One area to look into is adult education classes, many places have them available at a reasonable cost.
My 2 cents.


----------



## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

I'm not sure that anyone is required to take a firearms training course before getting a gun. But if that is true in some states, and much like a driver's license, these are things that are most likely to injure OTHER people if used improperly.

There are usually no licenses for potentially deadly activities that you partake of yourself with minimal potential to injure or kill others.


----------



## Knockonit (Nov 5, 2017)

> Personal safety is a personal issue. There are some people who have no business operating a table saw, the same could be said for cutting down a tree.
> 
> Trying to protect people from themselves always results in loss of freedom.
> 
> - Robert


and there you have it, hard to believe someone would want big brother to invade their lives a bit more, ugh.
rj in aZ

guess i should rephrase this, seems the left wants to run our lives, without getting political, i'm a believer of the old American way, work hard, and earn what you want or need, just wanted to clarify the stand i'm taking
thanks and have a good week, retirement just around the corner for me, yeehaw
rj in az


----------



## MikeB_UK (Jul 27, 2015)

> We have to take driver education courses to obtain a driver's license. We take firearms safety courses for the same reason. Why then do we not have power tool safety courses before operating power tools?
> 
> You can t kill others with your table saw
> 
> ...


You can if you try hard enough 
Don't want to discourage off any wannabee Bond villains.


----------



## bbc557ci (Sep 20, 2012)

McDonalds coffee cups… CAUTION, HOT!! Table saws & chop saws… CAUTION, DO NOT PUT HAND IN MOVING BLADE… duh…

Just about every and anything we buy now days has safety warnings, even the simplest things that one would really need to make an effort to harm ones self with.

Hell, there should be a warning sign on marriage certificates.


----------



## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

> McDonalds coffee cups… CAUTION, HOT!! Table saws & chop saws… CAUTION, DO NOT PUT HAND IN MOVING BLADE… duh…
> 
> - bbc557ci


While there does need to be more of this, at times society would greatly benefit from removing the warnings from absolutely everything for a few weeks, call it Darwin's purge.

Warning labels can be a form of sales too, fear monger enough folks that welcome being fear mongered too and you can sell them whatever whiz, bang, super duper safety feature you can come up with. It doesn't even need to work all the time, it just has to be well marketed, having a revenue stream of replacement parts is just a bonus!


----------



## prazbotta (May 20, 2020)

I agree with MrRon to an extent.

I agree this type of program -SHOULD- be available. I am prepared to donate $10.00 (USD) of my own money towards starting the program.

I disagree this program -SHOULD- be mandatory to purchase a tool. Perhaps it could be used as a part of a discount program, or in partnership with insurance companies to get lower rates.

Realistically, the issue is no one wants to pay for this type of program. I know some woodworkers and some DIYers would shell out the fee for the class or course or whatever. However, there would be more of an interest and market for having a program that instructs you on how to make good TICK TOCK (yes, I spell it wrong on purpose) videos. But how do you regulate and standardize it across multiple states? Multiple countries? Multiple continents? The more I think the more this sounds like a logistical nightmare no matter what.

Let's not forget in the USA, we just have freedom, and jCamp said it….....



> Shall not be infringed!!!
> 
> - JCamp


I know your intentions are good MrRon, but I just can't see this being adopted on any scale except locally. And by that I mean, if you were to decide to try and implement this, some people around you would go for it, but I doubt people would travel more than maybe an hour or three to participate, especially if they pay for it.


----------



## Jimarco (May 15, 2015)

I just paid to take a class on how to run through the house with scissors in my hand… I'm havin' fun now!!!


----------



## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> I just paid to take a class on how to run through the house with scissors in my hand… I m havin fun now!!!
> 
> - Jimarco


is it an online class or do we meet and get actual scissors ;-)


----------



## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

Probably those round nose "leftys" we all suffered with in kindergarten.


----------



## Knockonit (Nov 5, 2017)

> I just paid to take a class on how to run through the house with scissors in my hand… I m havin fun now!!!
> 
> - Jimarco
> 
> ...


rumor is its online, sign up and they send you a picture of scissors, its all in your mind the danger that is. hehe, funny stuff


----------



## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> Probably those round nose "leftys" we all suffered with in kindergarten.
> 
> - splintergroup


i forgot about those,see we did get safety training-lol.


----------



## JAAune (Jan 22, 2012)

I never had driver's education class. At one time Illinois used to issue licenses to anyone that could pass the tests. Passing the written test granted a permit. Passing the driving test granted a license. The local driver's education classes spent inordinate time harping on alcohol and drugs (feedback from siblings who did take the class) and I didn't need to waste time watching D.A.R.E seminars in place of driving practice. Plenty of hands-on driving experience with coaching from parents was the most efficient way to learn.

I don't advocate mandatory classes for power tools. Once something becomes mandatory, it often devolves into something watered down and useless.


----------



## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> I never had driver s education class. At one time Illinois used to issue licenses to anyone that could pass the tests. Passing the written test granted a permit. Passing the driving test granted a license. The local driver s education classes spent inordinate time harping on alcohol and drugs (feedback from siblings who did take the class) and I didn t need to waste time watching D.A.R.E seminars in place of driving practice. Plenty of hands-on driving experience with coaching from parents was the most efficient way to learn.
> 
> I don t advocate mandatory classes for power tools. Once something becomes mandatory, it often devolves into something watered down and useless.
> 
> - JAAune


no drivers ed for me either,my dad spent about 2 hrs riding with me then i went and took the test and got my license.


----------

