# Help a Newbe Scroller



## OnhillWW (Jan 10, 2015)

Hello, 
I am an experienced wood worker, that said I have not used a scroll saw. I am looking at working on some work that would be best suited for a scroll saw. The project involves making ovoid shaped bases that have sinuous borders. These will be too small and or too complex to rough out with my bandsaw. I have 2 questions:
A) I have tried to look at specs for candidate saws but I have not run into a number for maximum thickness of the cut. I will be using between 4/4" and 6/4" hardwood stock for these. I am not going to be making many of these at a time so slow patient cutting is fine with me. Is this doable with saws listed in part B?
B) I have three saw on my radar. Locally listed are 2 saws a Delta 40-570 that looks to be in VG condition @ $100.00. The second is a RBI 226 VS again in VG condition at $300.00. The third option is a Dewalt 788 that would have to be purchased new so roughly $600.00 OTD. I like quality tools but they need not be the top of the ladder just sturdy, dependable and long lived. Any of these to stay away from or to grab before it's gone?
I would be keeping this as it would expand my woodworking options so it will have a life outside of this run of items. 
Thanks


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## John Smith_inFL (Dec 15, 2017)

Look for the DW-788 on your local craigslist and FB MarketPlace for a "gently used" scroller.
I got one for $50 that had been in storage for 20 years.With a couple of new bearings, new grease and connector rod, I had a perfectly good and smooth running tool with a 20" table for less than $100.00 total. (just an option to consider).


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## JRsgarage (Jan 2, 2017)

I think out of those three, I'd go with the RBI 226 VS and offer $250. I used a Dewalt for many years and it was a great saw...sold it because I didn't need two. Definitely cuts more aggressively than my current excaliber and I liked the tensioner on the Dewalt much better.
I think looking for a deal like John might take you a while...


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## WoodenDreams (Aug 23, 2018)

In the woodworking club in my area, we have quite a few scroll saw members. All but one have the DeWalt Scroll saw. They like the 20" throat, right & left tilt and the ease of changing blades. Especially when they remove the blade to reinsert in different drill holes for complicated patterns.

They also like the King 21" KXL-21/100. But don't like the $1100.00 price tag.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

RBI, no question.

Cheers,
Brad


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## WoodenDreams (Aug 23, 2018)

I don't do much scroll sawing. I own the HF 16" model. For $79 new on sale, also reflects on it's low quality. But it works for me. But has issues, not easy to change blades and a very poor quality table platform.


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## DanKrager (Apr 13, 2012)

I was an RBI dealer for many years and sold all sizes of their saws. I kept the largest for my own shop and used their smallest one at craft shows. The newer RBI saws are durable and quick to change blades and will handle up to 2" stock without complaint using a #7 or larger blade. 4/4" stock very fine details are easily cut with a #5 blade. It's a strong and durable saw that runs very quietly with a 1" stroke. 
Now, many years later, my current saw is a 30" Excalibur with a foot pedal control. It is variable speed and cuts reliably and as quickly as you can control. The nice thing about the Ex is that the head tilts, not the table, unlike the RBI. It is by far the quietest saw I've ever used.
Whatever you get, you will quickly adjust to it.
DanK


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

consider blade selection,too. pegas and flying dutchman seem to be the top 2 brands most scrollers use.
after that its blade geometry choices. 4/4 up to 6/4 hardwood- since the stroke on a SS is rather short, i think you will want a low tooth count and will help remove the dust from the cut


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Without seeing the size and shape, I wonder if a jig saw would be easier and faster, not to mention cheaper? Long scrolling cuts in 4/4 and 6/4 pieces with a scroll saw might be a little tedious.


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## John Smith_inFL (Dec 15, 2017)

OnhillWW said:


> *The project involves making ovoid shaped bases that have sinuous borders. These will be too small and or too complex to rough out with my bandsaw.*


Do you have any completed projects yet? Sample photos, drawings, sketches, etc.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

Lazyman said:


> Without seeing the size and shape, I wonder if a jig saw would be easier and faster, not to mention cheaper? Long scrolling cuts in 4/4 and 6/4 pieces with a scroll saw might be a little tedious.


- or -

You might want to check out the Carter Stabilizer, which effectively lets you do scroll work on the band saw (see some demo videos here). Just have to see if they make one to fit whatever saw you have.

Cheers,
Brad


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## OnhillWW (Jan 10, 2015)

Thanks guys. At one time I saw the Carter attachment but though it was discontinued or would not fit my JET 14" saw, I'll have to look into that again. No photos yet but these are going to be bases for Bonsai trees, not simple circles or ovals but custom free form shapes.


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## John Smith_inFL (Dec 15, 2017)

ohhhhhh I LOVE Bonsai projects. Please keep us in the loop on this one.
(way back in my previous life, I had 32 projects - very calming hobby).


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## northwoodsman (Feb 22, 2008)

I had an RBI Hawk that I got from my wife's grandfather about 10 years ago. I used it the first winter that I had it, it was a fine scroll saw. But then it sat in the corner of my shop unused for many years. I finally sold it about 2 years ago, it was in new condition when I sold it. They are nice saws. Offer $250 for the used one. You won't regret owning in it. You can sell it in 10 years and get your money back still.


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## KentInOttawa (Jun 25, 2013)

Disclaimer: I have a lot of experience and NONE of it is recent.

IIRC, none of the saws produced 20 years ago could cut thicker than 2". That's a limitation of a 5" blade less the stroke length of the saw and the distance the lower blade clamp sits below the table. I cannot see how any of this has changed. 

Check out how easy it is to tension and change the blades on these machines. The differences there will make a much bigger difference that any HP rating will. The throat depth should be at least 16". I was able to reproduce fretwork grills for some piano restorations with a 16" saw. Smaller throats are just too limiting. I was able to do everything and anything that I wanted with an older Delta 40-560C saw with only 2 speeds. Rarely, I would have liked more throat depth but never needed more speed options or variability.








This was a great saw in its day, and I got my money out of mine. Because I cut so much with it, I wore out the pivot bolts, the bronze pivot bushings in the arms and the link and screws between the arms. Several times. Parts like these areen't readily availble any more, so I would look for a more modern machine if you intend to do a lot of work. On the other hand, if you're only doing occassional work and can find one for $25-$50, go for it.

Also, blade selection is damned important. A rule of thumb that I read about and that worked well for me was that you should always have at least three teeth in your kerf at any time. So, if you're cutting a single layer of 1/8", you would need a MINIMUM of 24 TPI. I preferred to fudge up to 4 teeth, so I would choose 30-32 TPI blades. This gets fuzzier when you use things like skip-tooth blades which would be rated based on the size of the teeth and not strictly by the number of TPI. I would treat a 12 TPI skip-tooth blade as though it was a 6 TPI because that is how many teeth were in the kerf.

You're planning on cutting 4/4 or 6/4, so a 12 TPI skip-tooth blade would be a pretty reasonable place to start. Gang-cutting (stacking layers of stock so that you can cut several pieces in one pass) is a good way to use faster cutting (coarser) blades on thin stock. I recommend the skip-tooth blades for cuts deeper than 3/4" or so because they clear chips better.

HTH.


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## OnhillWW (Jan 10, 2015)

Thank you everyone. This is great information, more than I expected. At the moment I am leaning toward the RBI. I will let you know how this works out.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

You can also get great advice on the Scroll Saw Village forum.


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## BadBob (Oct 13, 2008)

From the options given, I would buy the RBI 226 VS. 

You could get a much better answer to your question at the Scroll Saw Village forum. 

I currently have an Excalibur EX-21 (Taiwan Made), and the RBI 226 Two Speed (USA Made) saw. I prefer the Excalibur EX-21 primarily because of the ease of changing blades. The RBI will cut up to two inches but it is challenging.


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## halfacre (Apr 4, 2011)

A scroll saw was the main tool it took to complete just about every thing I have posted here on Lumberjocks. Check em out under, Halfacre. 

Certainly not saying all my advise is good for every one has their own ideas. All my carvings start with the scroll saw.

At the present time you might think you will only do certain types of projects but hey there is still lots of tomorrows so I would say ask your budget. A cheap saw has no resale value. 

You might get a little knowledge from you tube but I believe only a few actually know what they are doing. 
An established wood working shop would be a good place for questions but I have never seen a scroll saw in any of them!
A picture of your project would tell me what tools and machines I would use.

It didn't happen if there is no picture.....

Halfacre, 
Jess Littlefield


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## Notw (Aug 7, 2013)

I would love to have the DeWalt one day but for not my Porter Cable does everything I've need it to do


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## ed13 (Nov 22, 2016)

I recently used a scroll saw in class for the first time. My work involved both pierced cuts, which absolutely require a scroll saw or hand fret saw/ coping saw, and exterior cuts that could be done on either the scroll or the band saw. The shop had a scroll saw and a band saw with a 1/16" blade as well as the work horse band saw that was set up with something like a 3/8" blade at the time.

For the exterior cuts, I absolutely would pick a band saw over a scroll saw if the saw can handle the radius. Of course, there are a thousand ways to cheat a tight cut on a band saw, and that is what I did with the big 3/8" blade when the 1/16" blade was not available. I found the scroll saw harder to use, but of course it was my first time with one.

Most of my immediate needs are focused on exterior cuts, not pierced. I have just ordered the Carter stabilizer for my 14" Laguna saw plus the Carter 1/8" blade. I haven't received them yet, but do not foresee any problems. Note that 1/8" is as small as one can go on my saw. The 1/16" blade band saw at class was a small, special purpose saw with a hard to find blade.

Anyway, yes, the Carter stabilizer still exists. It can be a bit confusing figuring out which one fits your saw, but I've only read positive reviews.


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## Popsnsons (Mar 28, 2010)

You’ll like the Carter Stabilizer. It works great.


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## phildupreez (2 mo ago)

Do any of the members use Hegner machines?


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I have a Hegner and use it a lot. It is a high end, quality machine.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

phildupreez said:


> Do any of the members use Hegner machines?


There are quite a few members here that have Hegners, myself included (I have two). Is there any specific questions you have about them, or were you just curious 

Cheers,
Brad


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## phildupreez (2 mo ago)

Just curious.

I have a very old Polycut and Multicut.


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

ed13 said:


> ..."For the exterior cuts, I absolutely would pick a band saw over a scroll saw if the saw can handle the radius....."


Another thing to consider is that a band saw cut, when cutting thicker materials, will require sanding the cut surface smooth, whereas a scroll saw cut will not. I also have two Hegners. In my opinion the main advantage of a Hegnar saw is that it is the most durable saw I know of. I like the DeWalt but they are not durable under heavy use.


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