# My own kickback story



## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

For the most part, I've never really had any injuries with the tablesaw (needed 4 stitches from a chisel injury though. Those things are dangerous) until this past weekend.

I was cutting a small (1" x 1" x 4") piece of walnut to turn on my new lathe and my saw vibrates quite a bit. I pushed the block completely through the blade with a push block. After the cut was complete, I raised my arm up and over the fence so that my push block completely avoided the blade as I brought my hand back to my side. As I did so, the vibrating saw shimmied the small piece back into the blade and KA-POW!! Right into the bottom of my forearm, then ricocheted into my ribs.










I was quite fortunate and didn't lose any body parts. Now I know I have to get smaller parts farther past the blade on my saw.

Stay safe out there.


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## Brawler (Nov 12, 2018)

I'm glad that is all that happened to you, I have a bandsaw for smaller items.


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## Mike_D_S (May 3, 2012)

Tony,

As you have seen first hand, small parts with minimal mass must be positively guided all the way through the cut until well clear of the blade. This also applies for small cutoffs when making a series of cuts.

I use a very simple plywood push block with a tall design allowing me to move my hand over the blade while keeping positive down pressure on the piece being cut. I don't have a pic of the one I use, but its pretty similar to this pic which I stole off the internet. I make up 3 or 4 at a time out of 3/4 ply and use them until they get enough cuts to make the base narrow or unstable. Then if there is enough height I cut off the bottom 3/4 or 1" and cut a new notch at the back to push with and keep using them or just throw it out and grab a new one.

These are good in that they're cheap and if you cut into them with the blade it's no harm no foul. I make mine about 6-8 inches tall at the top of the handle and when I want to cut thin strips or really small pieces I just let the blade cut through the pushblock as needed.

I like my Grripper and Moby Stick, but when it's up close with the blade I use the plywood ones as I just don't worry about accidentally cutting into them so its one less thing to watch when cutting small parts.

Mike


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## Mike_D_S (May 3, 2012)

Forgot to add, the 3/4 nominal plywood ones fit perfectly in the gap between my square fence rail and the saw top, so its always easy to grab since it sits upright.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

yeah thats a pretty small piece to push through a TS.it would make me nervous.be safe !


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

> Tony,
> 
> As you have seen first hand, small parts with minimal mass must be positively guided all the way through the cut until well clear of the blade. This also applies for small cutoffs when making a series of cuts.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I was using something like the photo below, but the lower part is thicker than this image.










And I now realize that I should have used the bandsaw. I tend to not use the bandsaw for straight cuts because I usually keep a thin blade in there for cutting shapes. So for a straight rip cut, my brain jumps to the tablesaw.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

When it comes to small pieces I start looking and thinking "What's the safest way to do this?" I am not perfect but I am getting better when it comes to safety. I just hope it stays that way.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

You might want to look carefully at your saw. If its vibrating excessively, you might be able to address that. Most cast iron top contractor saws should be fairly stable in use, not shaking all around.

Maybe a new belt, new bearings, or possibly a bad pulley?


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## Mike_D_S (May 3, 2012)

I think it does underscore a basic rule of table saw safety 


> You might want to look carefully at your saw. If its vibrating excessively, you might be able to address that. Most cast iron top contractor saws should be fairly stable in use, not shaking all around.
> 
> Maybe a new belt, new bearings, or possibly a bad pulley?
> 
> - jonah


This and also if you are using a mobile base, they can add some wobble which can make vibration worse. I don't move my saw around much so I cut some wedges that I drive in under the mobile base to take out wobble.


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## LesB (Dec 21, 2008)

Another way to handle small pieces on a table saw is with a sled and clamp the piece to the sled fence to keep you fingers clear. 
Or be sure to push all cut pieces clear with the push stick.


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## Mike_D_S (May 3, 2012)

> Yeah, I was using something like the photo below, but the lower part is thicker than this image.
> 
> And I now realize that I should have used the bandsaw. I tend to not use the bandsaw for straight cuts because I usually keep a thin blade in there for cutting shapes. So for a straight rip cut, my brain jumps to the tablesaw.
> 
> - Tony1212


With the tall pushblocks, I push the piece through and past the blade and then guide it to the left side of the saw behind the blade with the pushblock. I'm going over the blade, but the height of the pushblock give me a good amount of clearance.

If I'm going to make a bunch of cuts like that I have a 8" wide by 12" long spacer made from 2 layers of 3/4 plywood with a hole cut on one side. I clamp it to the fence using the hole with the end of the space at the back of the blade and when the small pieces go by the blade I have a runway area to guide the pieces into.

Mike


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## GR8HUNTER (Jun 13, 2016)

im gonna ask cause no one else did WHY IS IT VIBRATING SO MUCH ? :<(((((((((((((


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

That's called a apprentice mark. 
I've got several just like it just above my belt on right side. I received my apprentice marks from a unisaw that hate me and I hated it back.
Good Luck


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

> im gonna ask cause no one else did WHY IS IT VIBRATING SO MUCH ? :<(((((((((((((
> 
> - GR8HUNTER


It doesn't vibrate THAT much. lol

It probably needs new belts, but I replaced all the bearings a few years back and I don't use the saw often enough to have worn them out just yet.


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## Brawler (Nov 12, 2018)

Try a link belt, they are hard on the pulleys (pot metal type) but they really do reduce vibration. I changed the belt on my craftsman contractor saw and it made a world of difference.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

A 4" block of wood is too short to push though a table saw in my opinion. That is what band saws are for.


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

> Try a link belt, they are hard on the pulleys (pot metal type) but they really do reduce vibration. I changed the belt on my craftsman contractor saw and it made a world of difference.
> 
> - Brawler


Link belts are fairly pricey and up until this moment, I'd never had any problem with the vibrations. It doesn't vibrate all that badly, it was just a small, light piece of wood that should have been cut on the bandsaw. That's where I screwed up. With larger pieces of wood, I've never even noticed the vibration.


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

> A 4" block of wood is too short to push though a table saw in my opinion. That is what band saws are for.
> 
> - bondogaposis


Yep. Though it didn't occur to me at the time. It will now!


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## JackDuren (Oct 10, 2015)

> A 4" block of wood is too short to push though a table saw in my opinion. That is what band saws are for.
> 
> - bondogaposis


Is done all the time in the shop making legs for furniture. I won't do it, but many will. I just walk away waiting on the sound often heard from the saw when it doesn't like something…

Professionals do things most wouldnt on a saw. Some because they haven't felt the bite of a tablesaw. Micheal Blystonee of Blystone cabinets laughed one time to another employee about my injury in 1985. Two years later the saw bit him…

Only person immune from injury is one that doesn't use it…


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## Mike_D_S (May 3, 2012)

I think there is a key safety takeaway here other than the size of the piece.

With no offense to the OP, but *failure to maintain adequate control all the way through the cut until the piece is completely clear of the blade can lead to problems*.

The OP could have been ripping 1/2" off a 2 ft long 2×4 and if the 2×4 came into contact with the back of the blade for whatever reason it could easily get shot over the top of the table. So size matters in that its harder to fully control a small piece through the cut, but the size of the piece is really not the core of the safety issue.

As one example, look at the wedgie sled post by TheDane (https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/153706) where he uses the ramp insert at the blade to make sure the offcuts go in a safe direction. Small parts, but handled in a careful controlled manner to minimize the chance of contact with the blade post cut while keeping the soft fleshy bits away from the blade.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

Just read your responses, and didn't see you saying YES, I have a splitter in use.

So I ask is there a splitter on your saw? It helps keep the saw parts apart, so they don't close, or come back and kick the parts back at ya. Important part here.

Also yes I'd rip them to the correct size, THEN cut them to length, too short a length to be ripping IMHO. You can control shorter crosscuts than rips. A bandsaw would change the ripping length considerably, but you can still run into too short for even a BS to safely rip, at that point rip first, crosscut later.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

Any time I am cutting on the table saw, I always maintain good DOWNWARD PRESSURE on the wood. As long as you can keep the wood from lifting from the table until clear of the blade, it won't fly up and kick back. Some people are timid when near a spinning saw blade and don't apply enough DOWNWARD PRESSURE on the wood. They will stand well away from the saw blade for fear of touching the spinning blade and therefore not applying adequate DOWNWARD PRESSURE. That's when kick back will most happen; WHEN NOT APPLYING ENOUGH DOWNWARD PRESSURE. This I believe is the most important thing to do to prevent kick back.


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

> I think there is a key safety takeaway here other than the size of the piece.
> 
> With no offense to the OP, but *failure to maintain adequate control all the way through the cut until the piece is completely clear of the blade can lead to problems*.
> 
> - MikeDS


No offense taken. That is exactly what I did. I just didn't get the piece far enough past the back of the blade. Another inch or so past the blade and this wouldn't have happened.

The actual cut was completely normal. It wasn't until the piece was completely past the blade and I had moved my hand and push block away from the piece that the kickback happened.


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

> Just read your responses, and didn t see you saying YES, I have a splitter in use.
> 
> So I ask is there a splitter on your saw? It helps keep the saw parts apart, so they don t close, or come back and kick the parts back at ya. Important part here.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I didn't see this question before. No, there was no splitter nor riving knife on the saw.

My grandfather bought the saw in 1954 and the original manual (that he saved and I still have) shows a splitter/guard as part of the assembly instructions. Knowing my grandfather, the splitter was gone by 1955.

There isn't much that I can do. There is a single product for my saw made by Kreg and they get some pretty bad reviews, especially for the cost of a few pieces of plastic. I've been meaning to make something similar out of some hardwood, I just haven't gotten around to it yet.

Normally I would have cut it to length afterward, but this was a cutoff - already 4" long. I just wanted to make it square along the grain so I could try turning it on my new lathe.


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## bugradx2 (May 7, 2018)

> Just read your responses, and didn t see you saying YES, I have a splitter in use.
> 
> So I ask is there a splitter on your saw? It helps keep the saw parts apart, so they don t close, or come back and kick the parts back at ya. Important part here.
> 
> ...


Is it possible to make a splitter be part of your blade insert?

Thanks for posting this as we all need a reminder to be safe with our tools from time to time. Also happy to see another Chicago woodworker on here too.


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

> Is it possible to make a splitter be part of your blade insert?
> 
> Thanks for posting this as we all need a reminder to be safe with our tools from time to time. Also happy to see another Chicago woodworker on here too.
> 
> - bugradx2


I think I mentioned a Kreg product above, but it's actually a Microjig (The GRRRRRRRRRR-Ripper) product - or more accurately, productS - that will fit into the zero clearance insert behind the blade. It's called the MJ Splitter.










But I figure I can make these in my own shop rather than spend $25 on them each set.


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## Mike_D_S (May 3, 2012)

I have the MJ Splitter steelpro version and for me it's worth the $30. You can certainly make your own version, but they are durable and the included splitter inserts have different offsets, so tuning is just a matter of turning them over or swapping for a different one.

Not quite as good as a true splitter / riving knife for preventing contact with the back of the blade for smaller pieces since the distance from the splitters to the back of the blade can be relatively larger, but works as advertised for preventing binding and kickback due to closing kerf and has generally helped avoid the grazing you sometimes get on the back of the blade with longer pieces where its more difficult to keep the piece feeding smoothly without any left/right force being applies.


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## Tony1212 (Aug 26, 2013)

> I have the MJ Splitter steelpro version and for me it s worth the $30. You can certainly make your own version, but they are durable and the included splitter inserts have different offsets, so tuning is just a matter of turning them over or swapping for a different one.
> 
> Not quite as good as a true splitter / riving knife for preventing contact with the back of the blade for smaller pieces since the distance from the splitters to the back of the blade can be relatively larger, but works as advertised for preventing binding and kickback due to closing kerf and has generally helped avoid the grazing you sometimes get on the back of the blade with longer pieces where its more difficult to keep the piece feeding smoothly without any left/right force being applies.
> 
> - MikeDS


Ok. I'll give them a shot. I think this would have prevented the small piece of wood from contacting the blade and shooting back into my arm. It's been a week and a half and I still have a bruise from that.


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## Mike_D_S (May 3, 2012)

It takes a little tuning to get it set up and you may need to tweak your fence a tiny bit as well for best performance, but I don't think you'll regret the purchase as it comes in handy for a lot of stuff.

I actually had to toe my fence out just a few thousandths behind the blade to get the right combination of splitter offsets and good clearance. But once adjusted it works like a champ and wood that is dimensionally stable runs smoothly while I can clearly feel the difference when I get any warp or if I start feeding with side force on a long piece.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

The 2 big things about a splitter is (1) alignment is crucial , wood doesn't bend around corners coming off the blade so it must be dead in line. The other thing (2) is if the splitter is wider than your kerf (think thin kerf blade) your board won't yawn open to allow a thicker part to insert itself into a smaller gap. So size it so it's thinner than the Kerf, but not sloppy.

If you do both of these things the splitter itself can be a thin slice of wood, and be strong enough. Both the plastic version, and especially the metal version of the Microjig products work fine.

OR, you could buy a Shark Guard, and get a really safe guard, and they offer splitters in different heights, and widths. Actually I think they offer just splitters if you have the mount for a guard. Their splitters kick major ass, very strong.


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