# Jointer Plane in place of a jointer



## YooperCasey (Nov 27, 2007)

Hello folks,

I'm looking at purchasing a good jointer plane rather then purchasing a poor power jointer. My primary task will be to flatten board faces rather than edge jointing which I plan on doing using a table saw sled. I've priced both the Nielsen, and Clifton, but $400 is out of my price range.

I've seen Anants, Kunz, and some no name brands which I'm staying away from unless someone can give it a glowing review. So for my options I'm either going to Ebay a #7, or a Veritas bevel up jointer plane. Will the Veritas plane meet my needs for face flattening? Can anyone give me some insight on any other methods or techniques I may be missing?

Thanks much!

C


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## marcb (May 5, 2008)

I have an old "Ohio Tool Company" No. 7, I recently purchased Chris Schwart's video "Making Furniture with Hand Planes" He goes over the use of the Jointer, Smoother and Block planes in this video. Most of the emphasis so far (haven't finished it) is the jointer.

If you do use a jointer for face work you will need a smoother. A No. 3 or No. 4


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## YooperCasey (Nov 27, 2007)

I have a #4 Stanley that I picked up on Ebay that I've been happy enough with. It took a great deal of work, and some time on a surface grinder but in the end it cleaned up nicely. Though it did give me an education that it can be a crapshoot on Ebay, I'd hate to buy a plane twice on ebay to piece together one good one.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Ohio made a great plane.

Also you will need a Jack plane (#5 or similar) for rough work. Start with a Jack, move to a jointer, then to a smoothing plane. Consider adding Hock Blades to your planes. Personally, I prefer the #8 to the #7.

You could look for the old Stanleys with 3 patent dates (Type 13) if your inclined to go that way. This #8 would be a good choice.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Bailey-No-8-Woodworking-Plane-Smooth-bottom_W0QQitemZ350062347139QQihZ022QQcategoryZ13874QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

For a good video on the topic, I would suggest

http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/AV9-D.htm


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Also, just realized where your from. I spent time in the early 80s in the Marquette Area. I was stationed at K.I. Sawyer AFB.


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## marcb (May 5, 2008)

A jointer is not a finishing tool, so its good that you have and use the No.4. Good tuning and use of a jointer makes the finishing plane stage short, but still necessary.

In short, you use the Jointer accross the grain untill you get roughly level, then you smooth it out with the grain. Depending on the particular defects of the board you can also go diagonally and "spot joint" particularly high spots.

It takes pracice, and its great exercise to do larger pieces, but it's not too difficult all in all.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Here is another more expensive eBay option. TIt does have some minor damage…..

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stanley-Bedrock-608-608C-Corrugated-Jointer-Plane-VGC_W0QQitemZ220237359114QQihZ012QQcategoryZ13874QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## YooperCasey (Nov 27, 2007)

Wow, thanks for the great advice folks.

I've seen the bedrocks listed on Ebay, but the price approaches the point that I'd rather save my pennies for awhile and get a new plane for what some of those are going for. I'm leaning towards the Veritas bevel up as long as it can do the job. But who knows, maybe ebay will catch my eye with a good deal before then.

And heya Wayne, I drive by the old base often on my way to see my sister in Marquette, some of it is getting used but alot of it is pretty rough. I'm sure a guy could pick up a few hundred thousand square feet of workshop in an old hangar for cheap 

Thanks again folks!


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## jcees (Dec 31, 2007)

I use a #7, #5, #605, #3, #40 scrub and a L-N 102 block plane. I also put two HNT Gordon rebate planes through their paces regularly as well. *ALL* are tuned. All of the Stanleys are type 11 to type 13. In my humble opinion they went into retrograde thereafter. They also have Hock blades in them too. I also have another #607C, #605-1/2C, #4C, #4-1/2C waiting for my attention before putting them to work.

I'm no Luddite but I prefer jointing *AND *smoothing with a type 13 #7. I keep two Hock blades sharp for it. One has a slight crown for smoothing and general purpose jointing and a square ground one for jointing only. I also use the Clifton Stay-Set cap iron. This plane is a pleasure to use and I almost sold it to a friend. What was I thinking?

You can't go wrong with new planes made by Clifton, L-N or Veritas. Their price is respective of their quality of manufacture-you get what you pay for. Proper castings, accurate machining, high grade materials and hours of handwork add up quick. So be it. If you want to sneak up their performance then you'll have to trade something other than your geld, like, your time and putting a keen edge on a good replacement blade. You'll also have to put time into finding out *what's wrong and what's right* with your old tool.

It's your call. I know many who prescribe to the "time is money" and it is, but I prefer the strength that comes from knowing and what better way to gain knowledge of planecraft than by delving into it and doing what it takes to make an old tool sing. That knowledge, I am convinced, will serve to make you even more appreciative of the toolmaker's art.

always,
J.C.


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## marcb (May 5, 2008)

Bedrocks are not worth the premium they command in terms of a user plane. I was patient and got my Ohio for a steal.

I would love to find some more information on it, as it seems to have some design quirks that may have to do with setup tweaks that you can do with it.

Anyone? This is a cast iron plane, the only real website I've found featured their old wood bodied planes.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

I really like the frog design on the Bedrocks. I also agree with the type 11 to 13 range. They are well made. This one is kind of interesting assuming the blade is original to the plane. Although it is not a transitional plane.

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-OHIO-TOOL-CO-TRANSITIONAL-4-1-4-WOOD-PLANE_W0QQitemZ380031733099QQihZ025QQcategoryZ13874QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## YooperCasey (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks for the additional replies folks, and thanks for posting the list JC, it can be daunting with all the planes that are out there. You also bring up alot of good points, there is something nice about being intimately familiar with a plane through the tuning process.

I'm seeing the corrugated bottoms mentioned alot, is this preferable?

The one thing I always worry about Ebay is getting an unusable piece of junk. But I guess sometimes thats the risk that has to be taken in order to get those deals.

Thanks again folks!


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

The corrugated bottoms look cool, are easier to flatten and are supposed to slide more easily across the surface of the wood. In my experience, both types of bottoms work fine. Others may have different opinions.


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## jcees (Dec 31, 2007)

Casey,

The deals are getting farther and f a r t h e r apart on eBay. I've only been "taken" a couple of times in the last ten years but when it gets right down to it, the seller didn't know any better and I should have! Mostly my collection has done very well via eBay.

As to the corrugated sole it is vastly different in one key area-it is easier to lap flat. I spent about five hours one Saturday just getting a #7 done. When I trued up a corrugated version it took a little over an hour. Sweet! As far as the plane not sticking to a flattened board well let's put it this way, if your plane is sticking to the board, quit, you're done, it's flat enough. Besides, the sticking thing is a phenomena in metal working more than it is one with wood.

Also, I discovered a problem with corrugated soles the other day when trying to put a slight bevel on the edge of something I was fitting. The edge was only about 3/8" thick and when I started my cut the plane skipped. What was happening was the corner on the thin board was trying to follow one of the grooves in the sole. All I had to do was skew the plane and the problem went away but that would never happen with a smooth sole. Therefore, I have 'em both.

always,
J.C.


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## marcb (May 5, 2008)

WayneC,

The depth knob on that plane looks like the knob on mine. A little smaller than a Bailey and the Knurling is different.

I love people who like their tools so much they don't want them to sell. All my planes put together didn't cost what his starting bid is.


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## ChicoWoodnut (Dec 15, 2007)

You might try out Patrick Laech at supertool.com He sells a lot of handplanes and often comes up with users that are not over the top on price but still a good tool for the shop. He stands by his sale too so there isn't the e-bay syndrome of not being sure what you are getting.

You can sign up for his monthly tool list on the above link. What you will get is a list of what he has to offer every month along with links to pictures of te tools which is actually pretty entertaining even if you don't buy.


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## douglas2cats (Mar 31, 2008)

The LV BU Jointer is a *very* good plane and if you get the optional steeper bevel blades there's not much that it cant handle, with the added benefit that you can use those same bades in their BU smoother. I've also got an Anant jointer that for $90 works pretty darn well too, but cant handle the harder/figured stuff like the LV does without getting tearout. The only slight issue I've had with the LV (and something a drop or two of Loctite could probably fix) is that in general I dont like the mouth adjustment mechanism as much as LN's adjustable mouth setups and I've had the stop screw lossen over time which causes shaving to clog up around it. On the wooden front I'd also look at http://www.knight-toolworks.com/wooden.htm#Jointer I dont have their jointer but a couple smaller of their woodies and they work extremely well. Gotta think their jointer would work just as good.


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## YooperCasey (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks for all the info folks.

I've decided to give an older stanley a try first, and if it doesn't meet my needs I'll get the Veritas.

But maybe I'll get the Veritas anyways…

Thanks folks!

C


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Have you handled a LN? : ^ )

Be careful they are addictive. http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?cat=505

I was not recommending purchasing the Ohio I linked above just that it was interesting. I like deals as well.


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## YooperCasey (Nov 27, 2007)

Haven't handled a LN… yet. Something of that quality seems a bit intimidating for me. But I'll have to track one down locally and try it out.

I'm also thinking of getting a hock blade and chipbreaker also, if I can get a 4 1/2 I think I can interchange the blade/chipbreaker and get double my moneys worth out of it. Making progress!

Now if only I could use inconel, I got that stuff coming out of my ears!


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

Woodcraft normally has some in their stores if you happen to make it to one. I'm guessing it would be a hike for you.


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## YooperCasey (Nov 27, 2007)

It's a hike, but now I have an excuse, plus I can drop the wife off at the PetCo next door. No wife in store = no supervision in store


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## alindobra (Oct 3, 2007)

Casey,

I have the Veritas bevel up and I cannot be happier. It is a fantastic plane and I highly recommend you to get it. In terms of looks it can be beat but not in terms of usage. I routinely get thiner than paper shavings with it but I have no trouble getting 1/32" shavings either. I use it as a smoothing, jointing, planing plane. On straight grain, it is so good I do not have to sand after planing. I also use it to remove the waving left by my jointer (all jointers leave a wave and the table saw will not make the edge perfectly straight). Since it is more than 7 pounds, I get a good workout as well.

One nice thing about learning how to use this handplane is the fact that you can flatten boards that are much wider than what a jointer/planer can take care off.

A number of things I particularly like about this plane are:
1. It has an adjustable mouth so you can use it to rough out or to smooth (almost transparent shavings)
2. It is bevel up so you can have multiple irons at different angles to change the way it cuts. A higher angle works better on more difficult wood.
3. It fits well in the hand and it is heavy (which make it stable)

I would strongly advice you to get the Veritas bevel up and not an old Stanley. The adjustable mouth and the bevel up+massive iron make it a lot better than the bevel down model. While I never used a Lee-Nilsen, by any account the Veritas compares favorably (and you save 50$).

Alin


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## marcb (May 5, 2008)

I believe the Veritas is what Chris Schwartz uses in the video I mentioned. If I where to buy a new plane I would probably go with that model


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

I think Chris is a LN guy….. They produce his videos.

(not an endorsement of one plane over the other. Think you would be happy with either)


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