# Veritas Low-Angle Jack disappointment :(



## 280305

I'm sorry to hear that you had this problem. But, LV's customer service is hard to beat.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Hope the new one is right (bet it is!) Today it's becoming more and more a tale of customer service. I bought a LN plane recently, with second (toothed) iron; order arrived with non-toothed iron. They shipped the right one ASAP with prepaid return label. Can't argue with that… mistakes happen, it's what you do when the happen that matters.

Good luck!


----------



## JoeLyddon

Yep, I don't think they could have handled the problem any better than that…
... except falling down on their QC letting that get by them…
... someone will get their head banged a tad… I'll BET!

Thank you.


----------



## JGM0658

Once in a while they get a bad casting. If you want to use it now while you wait just put a business card between the screw and the mouth plate. When I bought my 45º accessory for the block plane, they sent me a few shims later. Apparently there had been some problem with the 45º plate and they were sending them just in case. It is hard to beat their service.


----------



## RogerC

Hope you give a review of the new one. They just had a sale on their imperfect goods so it may have slipt in with the good ones. I don't know just a thought. With customer service like that from the "big box" of woodworking you have to love them. That sort of support would wave an issues in my opinion.


----------



## 280305

This would not have been purposely sold during the "imperfect" sale. Those tools have only cosmetic blemishes. LV is not going to knowingly sell something that is functionally imperfect with the LV/Veritas name on it.


----------



## thedude50

I wish you would have waited to actually use the plane before writing a review


----------



## Purrmaster

I'm sorry to hear about your plane. I've got the same plane and it's been fantastic. I'm truly surprised. Especially that the adjustable mouth was so non-flush to the sole of the plane. Mine is a perfect fit.

My handle was pretty loose too. It tightened it and it hasn't come loose again. I think there's a reason they ship it with the handle loose though I'm not sure why.

ChuckV is right, their "imperfects" were simply cosmetic blemishes.

Please let us know how the replacement works out. Someone must have been asleep at the quality control station one day. Makes me a little nervous about getting a block plane from them…


----------



## nwbusa

I question the value of giving a defective product a review rating at all… I mean, it's defective. Most people are not going to end up with a defective tool from LV which invalidates your 1 star rating, in my opinion. It's good to hear they handled the problem well from a customer service standpoint. Hope you re-evaluate the tool when you get the replacement.


----------



## MarkDavisson

If a person buys a product from a retailer, it seems appropriate to me to review the product that was received - whether defective or not.


----------



## PurpLev

thank you for the review about LV customer service. although I would have to say based on what you wrote LV CS should really be getting 5 stars.

this review doesn't really review the handplane in the title though - you got a defective product, and this happens to all mfg. and while some will tell you there is nothing they can do about it, you got super duper replacement service (that you won't get from everyone).

FYI, not sure if the picture you posted is misleading in the angle of the lens, but that gap is nowhere near 1/16, in fact, it looks less than 1/64 based on the ruler that you have right on top of it. (just saying).

would be interested to hear your impression of the plane once you actually get a chance to use it - for a while…


----------



## Willeh

Like Mark said, I bought this from a retailer and feel that a review of what I received was warranted. My disappointment stems from the fact that this got passed QC and into the hands of a customer at a retailer that prides itself on the quality of its product.

Once I get a replacement, and put in some time with it, I'll post a new review. Until then, I stand by what I said. I bought this plane to use, and currently have a plane that is useless. Thanks to great customer service from the retailer, that should be fixed soon enough.

Imagine a novice got this plan as his first? May have not known it was defective and just though it was a crappy tool…


----------



## PurpLev

*Imagine a novice got this plan as his first? May have not known it was defective and just though it was a crappy tool…*

I think this is exactly where my comment was coming from - based on your review of the product and the rating you gave it - this is just what this seems to be: the LV LA jack is a crappy tool. And from what I'm getting you are NOT a novice.

If this was a review of LV quality assurance, sure, I think you were spot on.

I'll take it one step further based on your latest comment. suppose a novice is looking for a Jack plane, he'll do research on LJ, and notice that the LV gets low rating, whereas some knockoff plane gets higher ratings, do you think that assessment would be correct?


----------



## Dwain

I think this OP was absolutely right to make the review he did. If LV starts sending out tools that don't meet their high standards, we should know about it. This isn't happening, and I am still a great LV fan. But we all bought some pretty crappy American cars in the 70"S because we couldn't believe America would make a sub par automobile. The did.

If one of you received a wood river or new stanley plane with these types of issues, I doubt it would be treated any differently. He received a product that was unacceptable, and he told us it was unacceptable. Frankly, I was shocked when I saw a Veritas LAJ review with one star, so I had to read it.

As to a novice researching this plane. If a novice bases their research on one review, or let's this one review hold a lot of weight against the multiple thousands of exceptional reviews on this tool, then they get what they deserve.

Just as this review was warranted, it falls on the original poster to review the plane he gets from LV when he gets it, and if there are problems there, he should let us know. He has committed to doing this. I doubt he will be let down.

We all love LV and LN, but that doesn't mean they can't make mistakes. The great thing is ther exceptional customer service.


----------



## chadirvin

Regardless if someone thinks this review should have been posted or not is pointless. If you don't like it keep scrolling. If someone was seriously looking for a plane then they would put in the time to check out exactly what they are looking for.


----------



## thedude50

The point of this is that the system tracks these reviews and they should be based on a tool that was tested and used. Not on something that has never seen wood and likely never will. This alters the rating of the tool and makes it less desirable. If you understand how the LJ rating system works it averages all the reviews of this tool now reviewing a tool that you cant use is not what the review is for . Had you waited till the new plane had arrived and you had used it this would not be a one star review.


----------



## Cosmicsniper

If you get a product and it cannot be used, it is a one-star product. Once the problem is rectified and used, then the review can be updated in light of that.

I am thankful for the review as posted, because I would want to know such a possibility could happen, even from one of my favorite vendors like Lee Valley. Expectations of a product are a huge part of any review, so when you are let down, it should be reflected in the rating.

Too many people around here give 5-star reviews anyway. IMHO, perfect scores should really be earned and you SHOULD get penalized for needing a second chance. This is the only way for consumers to truly hold vendors accountable for their goods and services.


----------



## thedude50

Granted but for arguments sake this guy bought this plane in a store should he not have checked it out before leaving the store I know I would have.


----------



## PurpLev

As to a novice researching this plane. If a novice bases their research on one review, or let's this one review hold a lot of weight against the multiple thousands of exceptional reviews on this tool, then they get what they deserve.

I agree, and so the same goes for the previously claimed "Imagine a novice got this plan as his first? May have not known it was defective and just though it was a crappy tool"

If you don't like it keep scrolling - Ah , here is where I see things completely opposite from your "leave it and move on" perspective. I think that if someone is reading this review to get content out of it, than they should read also additional content to add/subtract from the Original Post. Hence you have the ability to comment on a review - otherwise I'm assuming you are expecting the content of all the comments here to be "attaboy/congratulations"?

I agree whole heartily that a messed up LV plane out of the box should be noted, but it seems a bit extreme to base an entire review based on SOLELY THAT aspect of the plane.


----------



## MarkDavisson

If Willeh buys one plane that is useless out of the box and gives it a 1-star rating, and then gets a replacement from the manufacturer that performs flawlessly and gives it a 5-star rating, then Willeh's two reviews average out to 3 stars. And this is as it should be. Willeh's experience, on average, is 3 stars. I don't think a tool review should be limited to just tools that perform as intended, with the others being ignored.

If 100 people go in to a hospital for a routine procedure but only 99 come out alive, I'd want, as a consumer, to know that. I wouldn't want the rating agency to ignore the 1 death simply because most people have a wonderful experience at that hospital.


----------



## Kreegan

So is the take away here that certain manufacturers are above reproach and you cannot post a negative review of their products? I love Lee Valley and Veritas as much as the next guy, but if they sell me a piece of ********************, I'm going to call them on it.

Reviews of all sorts give people ideas of things to look for. If this review makes someone do an extensive visual scan of the product before deciding to buy it, that's good. If this review makes someone considering an online order, which I speculate makes up a large percentage of Lee Valley sales than in person, then that's also good. Perhaps it will inspire LV to do some better QC in the future.


----------



## lj61673

*"If Willeh buys one plane that is useless out of the box and gives it a 1-star rating, and then gets a replacement from the manufacturer that performs flawlessly and gives it a 5-star rating, then Willeh's two reviews average out to 3 stars. And this is as it should be. Willeh's experience, on average, is 3 stars. I don't think a tool review should be limited to just tools that perform as intended, with the others being ignored."*

I disagree.
For your example the tool needs two reviews. One, to comment on your experience with the actual tool *in the condition that the manufacturer intended for it to be*, that is undamaged at the factory or by the shipper, and secondly to comment on your experience with the manufacturers customer service dept. if an issue should come up.
A tool that leaves LV or LN in less than perfect condition is the exception and not the rule. I don't say that, their reputations over many decades say that.


----------



## CooperDBM

Willeh's review was good for what it was able to cover. He couldn't actually try the plane. My takeaway of the review is that LV are humans (they occasionally err) and have great customer service. I have lots of LV stuff.

The problem is with trying to provide a rating. I don't like these sort of rating systems and wish LJ would just get rid of them. I'd rather just read a collection of reviews and comments on a product before buying it. The rating is too arbitrary and incomplete.


----------



## 280305

I agree with Dave about the ratings being unreliable. If you have been reading LJ reviews for a while I suspect that you have seen an exchange like this more than once:

*Review Reader*: You say that X is a piece of junk. Why did you give it five stars?

*Reviewer*: I gave it five stars? I didn't even notice that. It must be the default.


----------



## Gene01

Dave says it all, for me. Forget the stars. Let me read what people say about the product.
I appreciate the OP's review.


----------



## Willeh

I didn't post this review to start an argument about whether or not I had the right to post the review that I did.

I think this is a fair assessment of a tool that I bought. Not every tool is perfect, and this one happened to be significantly less than perfect. I dont just post about the good tools.

The LAJ may work out to be a great plane. I did lots of research, I read lots of postings on multiple forums about the goods and bads and made an educated decision. I'm sure no one will NOT buy this plane because of this one review, nor has this dropped the star rating on this site significanty.

Once I get a replacement and have time to evaluate, I'll post another review, until that time, this is my only experience with this plane, and it hasnt been a good one.

Certainly you all can understand that. I've seen plenty of other reviews that people have posted where they also made a judgement based on the one tool they received. That's fine. I've also seen other posts where people have rated down a great product just because of where it was made. (Don't believe me? Have a look at reviews on Wood River planes).

End of the day. It was my choice to make this post. The forum's only rule on posting a review is as follows: "post your personal review of a woodworking tool, course, book, magazine or DVD"

If you don't like it, click back.


----------



## donwilwol

Good review. A review is more than just about the tool, its everything that goes with it. A bad plane is a bad plane and quality control should have never let it out the door.

its great they took care of it, especially so fast, but bottom line, it shouldn't have happened.

I'd like to hear how the new one works.


----------



## nwbusa

*If you don't like it, click back.*

Or, since it's a public forum, we can leave a comment with a contrary opinion about your review, right?

I'm not trying to start an argument either. I don't think you broke any rules or that you don't have the right to post your opinion. I just don't think giving a Veritas LAJ a 1 star rating when you haven't even used the tool makes a whole lot of sense.

Hope the new one works out better for you.


----------



## Willeh

Touche nwbusa, however, I gave it a 1 star rating because I *couldn't* use it. That should speak volumes in itself.


----------



## Purrmaster

It's a good review. I do hope you post another one once you get the replacement. I'd be interested to see how the replacement works for you.


----------



## Wiltjason

i thought it was a good review also, not to say i didnt about choke when i saw the 1 star but it definatly made me read the rest of the review. and i learned that just because your purchasing an idem from a company with a reputation for being awesome doesnt mean you shouldnt give the product a good once over before you buy it. just because honda makes great cars doesnt mean im gonna buy one without driving it. and im certainly glad that willeh didnt try and use this faulty plane for 3 weeks then give it a bad review and leave it at that


----------



## OggieOglethorpe

I would have waited for Lee Valley's replacement tool, then included the entire story. If the replacement is a five star tool, I might deduct a star for the initial experience. I think the star rating should fit a "representative" tool, after the provider is given a chance to address issues.

I think a one star review is in order if LV had blown you off, told you they all do that, or given you any sort of guff and told you to tune it up. However, they basically sounded an alarm klaxon, called all hands on deck, and hopped to it, to make you whole with a tool they can be proud of.

EVERYBODY lets one slip here or there… If there was a track record of examples of issues that required "great customer service" to resolve (think "a certain machinery manufacturer that brags about ISO 9001 factories"), I can see a one star rating. These guys apologized right off the bat, rushed you a new one, and are paying to get the defective tool back, but it's a truly rare event to hear of a Veritas tool that requires this type of service!


----------



## lj61673

*Review:*

I just took delivery of a brand new Mercedes S-600 AMG. 
When I went to drive it the battery was dead.

1 star.

*Review:* (Follow up)

Dealer replaced battery (5 minutes)
Car is gorgeous and rides/runs perfectly! Couldn't be happier!

5 stars!

Average score: 3 stars.

(turn sarcasm off)


----------



## 280305

*Inevitable comment*:

You should have waited five years and then written the review. Any new Mercedes better get five stars.


----------



## thedude50

Without even seeing the plane myself I could not say for sure but to me it smells of either shipping damage or it was messed with in the store and someone jammed the toe in wrong. Like UI said I would have waited to write the review till after I received the replacement.


----------



## Cosmicsniper

Willie….you should have at least tried to use the tool. You would have ruined a project, but at least then everybody would have been appeased. Consider such a sacrifice as proper atonement for your sins.

Oh, wait, but had you given 1-star after using it, people would have blasted you for not getting a new plane BEFORE you actually used it!

When the Ravens lose the Superbowl this weekend, we need to be sure that we don't jump to conclusions about who the best team is. Everybody needs to make sure they wait for the "redo" game before they give the Ravens only 1-star. It would be ashamed to see acquitted murderer Ray Lewis so defamed in that way.

Again, thanks for the honest review.


----------



## donwilwol

I don't understand the controversy. This is a review about a tool purchased and received in unusable condition. Its a fact, this particular veritas plane was unexceptionable. Period. The reviewer gave credit to good customer service, but if the plane had been right in the first place, no call to customer service would have been needed.

If 100 people by brand x and 100 people receive a perfect product with a perfect review that's totally different than than someone buying brand y and 10 of the 100 people have to sent the first product back to get a good one.

A question for Lance, are you saying you would have gone through your tool review, reviewed the steps of the actual tool, and never mentioned the fact it took 2 tries to get a good one?


----------



## JGM0658

I am with Don, I bought a Hammer combo jointer/planer. Had bad customer service and the machine was unusable. Took 3 month and legal threats to get them to fix it, and even so it is still not perfect. If I reviewed it I would give it 0 starts. Other people here swear by Hammer and have posted glowing reviews.

Just like the Veritas plane my combo was not usable, they sent another one (not working either), then they sent back the first one back fixed. The fact that the machine works now is irrelevant.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Passed: Gotten around, seen through or acceptable
Past: A point in time that has gone by.

Just to name a couple.

I'm weary of folks complaining about reviews of tools that haven't been used 'long enough' to get a decent review. And typically by folks that haven't reviewed anything. It's a new tool, and folks are only interested in tools that are new, so it's kinda tough to please everyone in that regard. Actually surprised anyone tries. I'm ready to kick out a review on the Stanley #78 moving fillister, because I've gotten quite a bit of use out of mine. Wonder if anyone will care? (Tongue slightly in cheek…)


----------



## JohnChung

As mentioned, you will give another round of review to LV LAJ. My LV Jack is NOT perfect in every sense but it is correct in things that matters like a flat sole. Anyway awaiting your next review


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I see the rating is up to 4 1/2 stars now…

EDIT: For all 8 reviews of the LV LAJ…Willeh's is still one star. My bad.


----------



## Willeh

lj61673, this is more picking up the new Mercedes and getting 30 miles from the dealership and the engine explodes.

You would probably give it a one star there yourself..


----------



## thedude50

Don no I would have simply waited till the new one arrived then tested it out After I found out how an undamaged plane worked I would have deducted a star or two or none depending on how the service was . The reason this is so is because he purchased this plane in a store he only had to open the box and look at it . He would have seen it was damaged and not taken it home at all. I always open tools at the store to ensure the parts are all there and that it is in working order. I have seen lots of defective tools from rough freight and boxes being opened and people mucking around with the tool in the store. I might not pop a box if it was sealed but these plane boxes are never sealed and if it looks like it has been re taped I always open it right there. I don't like tools that have been returned and then sold as new so I always check to be sure it is unused and that they are in working order. Also because he wrote a one star review because he was upset unless he just re writes this with his new plane the best he can average on the plane is 3 stars and that's if he gives the new one 5 stars. Had he waiter he may have only taken a star off or none at all depending on his customer service. Also he got great customer service on the plane already and he gave then nothing for that. If he had waited he would not have been pissed about it and the review would be more valid.


----------



## lj61673

*lj61673, this is more picking up the new Mercedes and getting 30 miles from the dealership and the engine explodes.

You would probably give it a one star there yourself..*

Not quite that dramatic..
I know that once this is over you will have a much better opinion of LV's tool quality and customer service.

Good luck and enjoy the new plane. 
p.s. don't forget to let us know how it works out.


----------



## JoeLyddon

*Cosmicsniper
*

I agree 1000%...

If anything, the Retailer should have checked it out before Selling it…

*No fault whatsoever is on the Buyer… he bought it in "good faith" to be of the High Quality expected.*


----------



## MonteCristo

I remember a review of block planes a few years back in Fine WW. The mega-expensive Bridge City entry had a serious flaw. Nobody's perfect . . . I'm surprised at the crappy plane LV sent Willeh; hopefully they aren't slacking off on quality with their Veritas lines; that would be a sad day. They certainly have more cheap stuff in their stores/catalog than they did 10 or 15 years ago . . .


----------



## Dwain

He got a plane he couldn't use. Period. Customer service can't be included because he hasn't received anything yet. For a company like Lee Valley, this is not common. It's almost unheard of. He got a bad plane. That was his experience and he rated it. I can't understand the disagreement, except for you dealers out there crying for LV. Lee Valley doesn't need our defense, they need to sell exceptional tools, and 99.8% of the time they do. Seems to me "should have looked into the box" or "How can you rate a tool you can't use" are pretty lame defenses. Let Lee Valley fix this, then lets hear from the original poster, and most importantly, let it go.


----------



## jak77

Thank you for posting your concerns with this plane.

As someone who is new to woodworking you educated me on some things to watch out for when I buy my first REAL handplane.

And seeing as someone as knowledgeable as you seem to be chose this plane to purchase. Gives me reason to check it out when I am ready to buy.


----------



## Straightbowed

in my experience as a woodworker or say a human when I go to the grocery store and buy say a pc of meat when i go home I take the meat and cook it the way i want it same as when I buy tools for my shop I buy them and set them up for the way I want them to work that means goin over everything and checking every nut bolt screw surface and so on so. I say dont ever buy something and expect it to be perfect when you recieve it, only when you go to a restaurant and order icewater will you get exactly what you ordered


----------



## thedude50

This has been a few days now have you received this tool yet ? was the replacement up to par ?


----------



## Willeh

I did receive the replacement and it looks to be in good working order. As expected, Lee Valley got the new plane to me on Friday. Came well packed in a box with a return label to send the defective plane back.

The PM-V11 Blade that I ordered for it is still on backorder and should arrive sometime later this week. In the meantime i have tried a quick few passes with the 38 deg A2 blade from my bevel up smoother, and so far so good, but I havent really put in enough time on it working as a jack plane to form an honest opinion. I also think the 25 deg blade will be much more suitable on this plane as the 38 with a micro bevel is just too steep to take the kind of heavy material passes that I would juse a jack for. (I also don't want to mess up my smoother blade by adding the kind of camber that I would put on a jack blade just for a test run).

I went for this plane in the end because i really wanted a Jack with the PM-V11 blade. If it holds an edge for as long as the PM-V11 Chisels that I have, I will be a happy camper.


----------



## Lsmart

I have this plane and I would have to say I love it! Mine was perfect out of the box and I get good consistent results using it (provided my blades are sharp). Hoping when you get your new one it is all you hoped and paid for.


----------



## helluvawreck

Lee Valley definitely seems to be a quality company. Thanks for the post.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


----------



## OSU55

The tote and knob are loose so they don't break in shipment. Mine were that way, and as I recall the instructions cover this. You've had 3 weeks to evaluate the plane, so where is your updated review? It took you no time to post a 1 star because of mfg defect, it seems 3 weeks is enough time to follow up. Perhaps the PV-11 blade didn't arrive? I use my LAJ with a 38 deg blade for flattening & smoothing - you ought to try it. It works exceptionally well.


----------



## QuestionableAbility

FWIW I bought one maybe a year ago. Seemed nice enough, definitely better than my old stanley #5 from grandpop. ANyway I fely compelled to write to add my opinion. I just used it today on end grain. Specifically, to trim the rough cuts on the coopered leg table legs, originally seen as built by TMac on Rough Cut. Worked great! Now, I am glad I bought it. Kind of on the fence(no pun intended) about if worthwhile prior to today. Now, I like even better than my Lie Nielsen #5 with York pitch.


----------



## andre_p

I fall into the camp of not believing this a useful review because we have no idea of the incidence rate of these issues. Generally the idea of reviews is to assess the function of a product, and in cases where there are a limited number of reviews negative reviews because of a defective products provide little to no information, other than the product in question has non-zero defect rate.

It's interesting to me that the author chose not to update his score after receiving a good working plane. This review is one of the top results on Google for the search phrase "Veritas Jack Plane", and I believe it's misleading.


----------



## MarkDavisson

> It s interesting to me that the author chose not to update his score after receiving a good working plane.
> 
> - andre_p


The author made a blog post in 2014 describing his back injury. The plane he received from LV may be sitting right where he left it in 2013 with PM-V11 blade still in its wrappings.


----------



## brianjgoddard

I'm sorry to hear that. I have one for almost 5 years and I'm satisfied with it!


----------

