# Need advice on a recent ebay plane purchase



## pierce85 (May 21, 2011)

It concerns a Stanley #3. The description mentioned the condition was very good with no functional or cosmetic issues. The pictures (below) seemed to confirm the description. However, when I received it, several problems became apparent fairly quickly.

1. The plane iron was slightly bent not allowing the Y lever thingy to fully engage - it kept slipping off.
2. The lever cap screw was also slightly bent - the two are likely related.
3. There was a tiny chip on the back side of the mouth - not a big deal. Looking at the pictures again, I can now see it knowing what I'm looking for.
4. The business end of the plane iron was badly chipped.

I was able to "fix" all but the tiny chip in the mouth, which doesn't affect its function. The fixes are not perfect but good enough for using. I didn't buy it for collecting and only paid $35.00 for it. The blade/iron does bug me a little - I can't get it perfectly flat and wouldn't expect to. Nevertheless, I'm inclined to let these things slide.

Would you say something to the seller or chalk it up to normal ebay plane purchasing conditions?

Thanks!


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

I would contact the seller before giving them a rating, see what they will do about it. If the description was not accurate, you can indicate that in feedback and give them a neutral rating, or, a negative rating.

Most will want to keep their high rating, so would work something out with you, maybe send you another iron, etc. for a decent score.

I usually see some little thing after I get my items, and if I look closely enough, see them in the photos, so that is my own issue. Maybe yours was damaged in shipping?

All the Best! Good luck with your new acquisition!


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

That's a tough call, without seeing A) the exact description and photos given with the item and B) exactly what the item looked like right out of the box.

To a certain extent, I expect this sort of thing when I purchase an old plane on eBay. If the condition of the plane definitely contradicts the written description, then I would complain. (example: If the description says no cracks on the tote or knob, and the tote is actually cracked completely in two.) But if the description is technically accurate, even though the seller may have "forgotten to mention" a condition issue, I chalk it up to "buyer beware".


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

I tend to expect stuff like this from ebay planes and have a drawer full of spare parts to address issues like these. If the seller presents themself as a tool vendor, I might be tempted to say something. If they are a casual seller of tools, I would just replace the blade (if not completely flat), bent screw and move on. Needing to regrind a blade because of a chip in the leading edge would never be a reason to complain in my book. Where I would respond is if they intentally miss represented something related to the item. Like hiding a major crack or broken part.


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## pierce85 (May 21, 2011)

Charlie, the description was completely accurate but minimal, giving the plane dimensions, 99% japanning, 97% wood finish, and the mention of an identification mark on the toe. I'd rather not provide the complete description so as to protect the seller's identity - it's not fair to the seller to hash these things out in public without their knowing about it. The pictures are what the seller provided in the auction.

I'm inclined to let it go. I just don't know if these things are the normal expectations for plane buying on ebay or not. Other than a replacement iron as jusfine suggests I wouldn't press it beyond that, but then that may be unreasonable to expect as well. I'm new at this…

Good points, Wayne. The seller is a tool vendor but I don't think there were any intentions of hiding anything. I'm going to chalk this up as one of many learning experiences to come in buying used planes.

Thanks, Guys.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

I would have opted for the $66 solution to the problem. A good excuse to buy a new Hock Chip breaker and blade. : ^ )

http://hocktools.com/BP.htm


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

I'd say it's the cost of doing eBay business, though I'd certainly let the seller know about it.

I purchased a Union No. 6 last month. I had some issues with my PayPal at the time (my iPad app was new to me and I used a bank account that I no longer had by accident). But because he was patient with me, I immediately gave him a positive rating.

When I received the plane, it was sticking half-way out of the poorly packaged box…and sure enough, half of one side of the body was broken off…and ALL the iron had been used (something not mentioned in the description). I was initially upset by this, but I figured that the $21 I paid for it wasn't really worth all the effort. Had I not had the Paypal issue, then I would have nailed him for it.

Instead, I have a plane that will make a nice sacrificial electrode for the electrolysis of more eBay planes!


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## dfdye (Jan 31, 2010)

Pierce85, I think you are taking the exact right attitude about this. You asked if you should be worried about this, got opinions, and seem to be fine with the purchase. I think you got a great deal, and I am certain it will work just fine when you actually start using it. Congratulations on a great plane at a great price, and have fun making shavings!

That being said, this topic seems to come up every once in a while, so please indulge the following rant to the imaginary A-hole who actually thought he got ripped off (remember, this is NOT directed at anyone-especially not Pierce! I just needed to vent):

I'll be blunt-the seller's description was spot on. If I had gotten that plane for $35 and didn't have to put more into it than a new blade (which I pretty much consider mandatory for old Stanley planes now that Lee Valley sells replacements for ~$35), then I would consider it a steal. The minor chip in the back of the mouth won't impact performance, and everything else looks tip-top. If you are buying an antique plane, it will always have SOMETHING that is not perfect. This looks to be exactly as advertised: a great user that will require minimal cleanup to get working properly.

If I had gotten this plane, I would have written the seller a thank-you note for sending me such a nice item. Seriously.

If you consider the imperfections you mentioned as being "problems" with the plane, then I would recommend you avoid antique planes and stick with new Veritas or LN offerings. They truly come as picture-perfect as you could want, and you will never have to worry about tweaking a blade or chipbreaker. If an insignificant chip in the non-business side of the mouth makes you think you may have been cheated by a seller, or if regrinding a blade is a big enough deal for you to get bent out of shape about, then buying used probably is not a great use of your mental energy.

All of the old Stanley planes I have ever purchased have initially been in FAR worse shape than yours (I have #3-7 bench planes and a shoulder plane-the #7 actually came from WayneC!), and they all work spectacularly. You can't get similar quality planes for anywhere near $35 new, which is why I have put the time into reconditioning the ones I currently use. The VERY few "mint" examples of older planes that I have come across have typically been in far worse shape in terms of usability, even if they looked bright and shiny! Soles badly out of flat, bad frog seating, etc. typically result in a plane being put on a shelf and never touched since it doesn't work well, but they still look almost new and have almost no scratches, chips, or missing paint! Ironically, these planes cost MORE than the ones that WORK WELL!!! Good users got USED, and will almost always reflect this. Your "problems" occur as a result of a plane being used, and probably indicate that the previous owner actually (gasp!) USED the plane!!! (sorry for the sarcasm, I couldn't resist) Take these imperfections as evidence that the plane has gotten broken in and is ready to go for lots of future work. Slap a new blade and chipbreaker in and forget about it. Counting everything, including shipping, you should be out under $100 for a top-of-the-line smoother that will last your woodworking lifetime.

Sounds like a good deal to me. . . .


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## dfdye (Jan 31, 2010)

Hey Wayne,

This is slightly off topic, but have you tried out the Lee Valley blades? I certainly like the Hock blades, but I have been incredibly impressed with the prep of the LV blades. The backs are absolutely dead flat, and I haven't had to "prep" a single blade of theirs that I have purchased-I just go straight to honing. I have tried their A2 and O1 blades, and haven't noticed a difference in the steel between LV's and Hock's in terms of wear, even with the Cryo treatment of Hock's A2 blades.

I'm not really looking to buy any more blades in the immediate future, but I am curious as to other folk's opinions regarding the LV's vs. Hock's.

David

PS I've pretty much discounted the IBC/Pinnacle blades due to price and prep work of the recent examples I have seen. I certainly like the steel in the two A2 IBC blades I own, but I doubt I'll ever buy another one. I don't see the point if I can buy a cheaper blade with a flatter back that wears as well. . .


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## Maverick44spec (Aug 7, 2011)

I would just let it go at that price. The screw and iron can be easily replaced or upgraded to a Hock and everything else was easilly fixed or does not impact how the plane functions. If It had been more like $100-$200, I would have probably said something. (maybe not give them a negative rating but at least contact them) The bad thing about ebay is that the sellers can give the buyers a bad rating to and many will wait to see what rating you give them before they give you one. Luckily, I have always had good experiences with ebay and have always gave positive ratings so I always get positive ratings.


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## Tedstor (Mar 12, 2011)

The seller referred to the plane as "very good condition". I'd say that was his only mistake…..and a small one at that. Ratings criterion are very subjective. I personally would call that "Good" condition. But I'd still happily pay $35 for it. 
In my mind, the seller rated it a bit too high. And you might be rating it a bit too low. 
Just one of the enevitable downsides of E-Commerce.


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## JSilverman (Mar 31, 2011)

I would say thank you … and then go buy a new LV or Hock blade & chipbreaker…. $35 is a fair price for that plane.


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## pierce85 (May 21, 2011)

Thanks again, everyone, for the sage advice. It's nice to have all this wealth of experience to lean on when you just don't know. I think this is a good excuse to upgrade to a Hock or LV blade and chipbreaker.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

I have not not tried the LV plane blades. I've been sticking with the Hock Blades since I already have them in most of my planes. I did get a couple of the IBC blades for my Stanley #62 but I have not sharpened or played with them yet.

David, did you get a finished photo of your #7?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

If I bought a plane with the description " The description mentioned the condition was very good with no functional or cosmetic issues" and it had a chipped mouth, I would email the seller. First to let him know if he's going to sell planes, a chipped mouth is a functional issue, and if he will give you a few buck back, better for you. We all know we pay less for a chip in a planes mouth. Lets face it, if it was bad enough, you'd want to send it back, even at $35, although in this case, it sounds like you got a reasonable deal.


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## dfdye (Jan 31, 2010)

Wayne, the finished pictures of that no. 7 are here. It will actually be getting repainted the next time I strip a plane. I found some engine enamel that builds up exceptionally well and looks pretty close to Japanning, so I figured I would put that on all of my restored planes. I haven't posted anything in a while since I recently started a new job and have been incredibly busy, but I guess this is as good an excuse as any to pit a little more out for public consumption.

As for the blades, I can never fault anyone for sticking with Hock's products. They are Indeed excellent!


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## dfdye (Jan 31, 2010)

Don, I'm missing something here-the chip is in the back of the mouth & is very small. How does that impact performance? Have you ever used a plane with a chip like his? What did it do that you didn't like? I simply don't understand why you are making this claim. Could you please elaborate on what you expect his chip to do to the performance of the plane?


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## docholladay (Jan 9, 2010)

First of all for a number 3, $35 is actually a pretty high price for one that isn't in almost pristine condition so I would have to contact the seller to see what they would do about it. Most likely, the solution would be to just return it for refund and then they would probably sell it to someone else. However, since you have already attempted to fix the problem, that is probably not an option and you probably do not have any real recourse. If I were you, I would invest in a new blade and chip breaker and a new lever cap screw, sharpen it up and put it to work. You can find the parts you need at www.stanleytoolparts.com pretty easily and inexpensively. If you really want to get it working well (but a more expensively than you paid for the actual tool) get a new blade and chip breaker from Lee Valley, Pinnacle or Hock. A new lever cap screw from Stanley and you will have a plane as good as any thing Leigh Nielsen makes for a lot less money.

Doc


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

That small chip probably will not affect your performance. The point is it should have been pointed out in the description or a good picture of it shown. Its an impossible shortcoming to fix. I would email the seller and let him know. If he intentional hit the flaw, then you'll know not to buy from this guy again, if he just didn't know, you've help educate the seller and you know you can trust him in the future. You got a nice plane for a reasonable price, so its still your call.


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## dfdye (Jan 31, 2010)

Don, I'll respectfully disagree, but I certainly understand your point. I simply don't think that chip would warrant special attention (and most certainly not a return as doc suggested!).


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

you asked "Would you say something to the seller or chalk it up to normal ebay plane purchasing conditions?" so it wasn't an unsolicited comment. I also understand your point. Enjoy the #3. Its a great plane. Small enough for that little guy soon.


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## pierce85 (May 21, 2011)

^just to clarify - I was the one who asked the question and am chalking it up to normal ebay plane purchasing conditions.

I only mentioned the tiny chip in the mouth and the chipped iron because it was part of the overall condition of the plane and those conditions were not mentioned in the description. Nevertheless, I consider those conditions to be inconsequential because they don't affect its use and I would have resharpened the blade anyway.

What bugged me was the bent plane iron and cap screw. In the end, it all worked out fine.


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## gawthrrw (Sep 13, 2011)

Its one of those things. I'm sure we all have taken chances on ebay tools. Most people dont' know anything about what they are selling. I've bought most all of my planes off ebay and have had several issues with them. I just learn from it and remember what questions to ask next time.


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## wingate_52 (May 14, 2011)

I won 3 auctions for 3 no.3's on ebay and the first 2 were problematic. One had sent it to someone instead of a no. 4, the other withdrew after the sale. My third attempt bought me a decent model, according to the description and photos. When The Stanley no.3 arrived, in the wrong box ( a Record box) it looked tatty, a few faults were evident, upon close inspection of the photos, yes the marks were there. The crack in the tote was not visible in the picture nor was the filler, a poor blade and cap iron and a non chrome lever cap. A few hours of work, new woodware, a new Quangsheng blade and chipbreaker with a lowered frog, 3 brand new lever caps tucked away in a box for the last 25 years and a coat of paint have turned it into a really nice plane. Total costs £54.


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## Dcase (Jul 7, 2010)

I wouldn't say anything to the seller. I think its a fine plane and the issues are far to minor to fuss over in my opinion.

I am wondering though why you cant get the blade flat? What method are you using to flatten the iron? Unless its badly pitted I don't see how it cant be flattened. Have you tried the Charlesworth ruler trick to flatten the iron? Can save you a ton of time. That is how I flatten all my irons.


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## pierce85 (May 21, 2011)

I was able to get it flat enough to be functional, i.e., it no longer slips off the Y lever thingy. It's just that when you start bending any piece metal back to its original shape, you almost never get it there. The business end of the blade was not at issue in terms of flatness. So that's what I meant when I said, "The blade/iron does bug me a little - I can't get it perfectly flat and wouldn't expect to."

It's been making some nice thin - transparent - shavings.


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## Dcase (Jul 7, 2010)

I'm sorry I was thinking you meant you couldn't get the back of the cutting edge flat. I didn't realize you were talking about the blade itself being bent. I have ran into a few bent blades and I can usually get them to work by putting in my vise and bending it by hand or by hitting it slightly with a hammer. Like you I haven't been able to get them perfect again though.


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