# The secret to being a good turner



## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Lest anyone think this subject deserves a better turner to write it, I agree. I've only been at it since November.

It takes about 3 months to understand that creating a good wood turning is 50% learning how to chuck wood, 35% sharpening, drying and finishing, 15% actual skill in turning.

If you don't know how to hold your wood, you're going to get hurt and most of what you turn isn't going to come out right. The pen guys have it easy, but still, most chucks haven't been made for pen turners and people have had to improvise.

I watch Capt Eddie, he has a video I think it's #159, where he explains how to chuck a finial. You have to buy some stuff, but 30 - 40$ should be all.

You'll need one of these colletts, I got a 3/8 and a 7/16. http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4314&category= They have a number 2 Morse Taper. You just need one of those long 3/8 screw draw bar to use as a closer. I turned a handle for mine. The collet goes into the drive side of the lathe and you insert the closer from the left of the drive chuck and tighten it. It holds a piece of finial really well. Of course its always safe to turn between centers, so I use my drill chuck with a socket extension so as not to damage the wood.

Chucks will make you go broke, so shop around. Capt Eddie has some great buys on his page and he makes reference to other tools that are a steal for steel, git it.

For those of you thinking about getting into lathing, it's more expensive than you will ever know. Make friends with someone who has a machine shop.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

RussellAP … depending on your lathe, you can make a draw bar out of a bolt or piece of threaded rod. I have a Delta 46-460 midi-lathe, and used a 10" carriage bolt.

You are correct … the cost of the lathe is pocket change compared to what you can spend on chucks, tools, and other accessories.


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## TerryDowning (Aug 8, 2012)

Here is a great book on chucks. I highly recommend it.

http://www.amazon.com/Fixtures-Chucks-Woodturning-Everything-Secure/dp/1565235193/ref=sr12?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1365448970&sr=1-2&keywords=woodturning

Many of the solutions in this book are fairly low cost. There is an entire section on shop made fixtures and chucks.


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## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

Russel,
You probably already know about this gentleman, but just in case…
http://www.davidreedsmith.com/Articles/AllWoodColletChuck/AllWoodColletChuck.htm


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## Kreegan (Jul 10, 2012)

I am reading Doc's book right now actually. Just in the first few pages, I learned a lot. Highly worth reading.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

If it's online, I'll read it. I don't do books anymore.


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## TerryDowning (Aug 8, 2012)

Personally, I don't have a computer in my shop (and I don't want one). Print books are useful shop companions IMHO.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

They are only useful if you can see them. My eyes won't focus on print that small.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

Russell disagree with your assessment! Mounting wood in a 4- jaw chuck about the simplest thing to do.

Like everyone, else still looking for that woodturning tool that will allow me to reach pinnacle of success. Think most folks concentrate on their tools & equipment than actual turning. Surprised, folks with more experience and expensive tools and equipment than me do not know much about the wood they turn.

The basics like sharpening & re-sharpening tools, grip, stance, and body movement all lifelong learning process. It can be said about finishing your turnings as well. Since no two pieces of wood even from the same tree exactly same you will never stop learning about the wood you use.

No matter what type of turning we do there are options. If had a ¼" collet chuck & ¼" drill rod would have perfect set up for turning pens. I have three pen mandrels but prefer to use a dead & live center.

I have two 4-jaw chucks but often start turning bowls between centers using my 2-prong drive & live center. Often will use that screw that came with my chucks instead. I often mount jam chucks in my 4-jaw chuck for reverse turning, also have several size donut chucks mounted on faceplates.

I seldom mount my drill chuck in the heads stock because they have a tendency to come out when least expect them to. Still drill my tool handles with drill chuck & bit mounted in headstock.

You will never gain much skill without lots of patience, practice and persistence.


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## TerryDowning (Aug 8, 2012)

I do understand that.

If a print book offered on Amazon is not offered in electronic format, click the "I'd like to read this book on Kindle" link on the right side of the page under "Tell the Publisher" The more requests the publisher gets, the more likely they are to offer in that format.


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## Stephenw (Nov 14, 2011)

I have a large collection of MT2 collets because the spindle of my metal milling machine is MT2. What do you use them for on a wood lathe?

I have the Barracuda lathe chuck for my wood lathe.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Stephenw-They come in real handy for things with small tenons … stuff like finials, ornaments, etc.


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## paratrooper34 (Apr 27, 2010)

I don't get it….is the secret to being a good turner making friends with someone who owns a machine shop? As someone who wants to get into turning, this was not helpful. What am I missing?


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Mike-I think Russell did that tongue-in-cheek, but I'll let him speak for himself.

As for my experience, I have found the guys in my local turner's club a great resource. Along with the abundance of information on the web, they have helped and supported me as I get further into turning.

Another great resource has been the local tech schools where I have taken some classes. I don't know about other areas, but in Wisconsin, veterans can sign up for classes in turning, woodworking, etc. for little or no tuition cost.


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## Stephenw (Nov 14, 2011)

Collets don't have much range. The wood has to be round and close to the collet diameter.

Here is the video RussellAP is talking about…


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Mike, it would help seeing the selection out there is dismal if you want something different. I'd love a livecenter that doesn't have a point on it like most of them do. I'd like - and in fact I use - a 1/4 compression to 3/8 Pipe connector in the tail stock, but it doesn't rotate. I'd like to see some sort of universal rotating live center that will accept whatever you want to put in it under 30$, or even 60$ for that matter. We're getting ripped off of equipment you know. A machine shop buddy could save us $$.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Stepnenw, that's the video. At the beginning he puts the tenon on, I had to buy that drive center he used. I'ts a nice little piece. I find the grinding open end drivers into chisels the most interesting part of the video and I got a cheap set for the occasion. I like the tenon a bit larger than the collet, else it tends to draw the collet too close to inside the drive hub. I've turned three finials with this rig so far and the only thing I really need is a small set of chisels for small work. I have some HSS steel that I'm sharpening, a little every day, till they are sharp and have the proper angle on them. Capt Eddie has the handle that will take the square stock to a round handle.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

*paratrooper34* While I am no great master of the lathe I can only give my own path. To get better like anything else in life one must practice, that is MAKE something. All the reading and studying in the world only takes you so far and then you have to finally go to the lathe. Has everything I ever made turned out well, heck no. Mostly I bought the lathe to make pens, having made only a few handles for some files I recently volunteered to make chisel handles for a fellow LJ, see post Michigander has larger hands than me, thus he wanted thicker handles, this was difficult as we are several states apart and it is not like I can send them back and forth six times ya know? (laughing) End result he has 4 nice chisels, not the best in the world, not the worst, but he is happy and I learned alot. This forum has many masters of the lathe that have given great advice, once I put it to practice working the lathe.

*TheDane* +1 lots of good places to go for help, vets get a discount on classes here in Ga as well.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Putting the chisel to the wood is the least of the things you are confronted with when you start turning. You can't turn it if you can't hold it. Most of us have good chucks, but what is good for a bowl isn't good for a finial, unless you want to be ducking it as it flies around you shop. 
And who among us can say that they have a value of even 200$ for every 1000$ we spend on chisels. Most of them just don't word any better than anything else on the market, they just cost more. If they are innovative, they are sky high and usually come with a bunch of extras that cost even more. I'm buying tool steel and making my own from now on. What is there to it. a cutting surface and a sturdy handle is all. The trick is to create a chisel that you USE and not one that looks pretty on the shelf. I have one carbide set, the Sorby TurnMaster. It has detachable ends so you can keep a square and round cutters on them and switch out easy. It's my finishing tool, but the bevel on it sucks. You can only barely scrape with it, I have never seen ribbons flying off it.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

RussellAP … Not sure if it would be what you are looking for, but Delta sells a live center that has a removable point, a cup, and a disk/foot. On bowls, I often use the disk/foot and a scrap of leather to provide support and keep from marring the turned piece.

This is what I bought:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004Z02E/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Gerry, if it's that live center that comes with the delta 46-460, throw it away. Its hollow and you can't get it out of the tail stock when it sticks. nothing can get it out. I had to take it to Delta and they had to take the whole thing apart and beat on it. I guess if you stuck a nice hard screw or nut in the end it might be okay, I'll see what I can do. They gave me a new live center just like the old one {rolls eyes}.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Russell … It is not the stock live center. This one is much heavier and has replaceable/removable centers.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Just ordered it Gerry. Looks like what I need. I get so tired of trying to cut around that point, takes a couple mm's away from the work.


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## DaleM (Feb 18, 2009)

I disagree with a lot of the things you say someone "needs". You don't need any of those chucks. You can turn a finial as a spindle, then cut it away, completely doing away with the need for any chuck. You can make your own steady rest out of an old roller skate if you are turning thin stuff. For making bowls, at least starting out, you can screw the wood to a screwplate or even make a longworth chuck. I have less than $200 dollars into my cheap lathe and all the tools and it has already paid for itself in spindles I have duplicated for someone. I'm only posting this not to be disagreeable, but because reading the other stuff here seems as if you're trying to discourage people on a tight budget from getting started in turning.


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## REO (Sep 20, 2012)

Russle Not everyone falls into the same catagory. I spend very little on turning tools. can sharpen on the cheapest bench grinder out there with success. to this point I have not had a mechanical problem that i have not been able to over come and love the chellenge of someone telling me it cant be done. Your live center problem was one you made for yourself you cant blame the tool or manufacturer. not being able to take it apart and do it yourselfe after it being suggested to you was also a problem you created. in several of your posts people offer good advise but you beg to differ and continue to beat your head against the wall. Chucking is a good example as you gain expirience you will invent ways of holding odd ball stuff in ingenious ways. You have had your lathe for a short time it doesent come overnight. Give it a chance to settle in and dont get so down when you run into a wall that is what LJ's is all about.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

RussellAP-One thing you will find with this live center is that travel on the ram in the 46-460's tailstock will be a little shorter … you have to crank the ram out about a half inch for it to engage (I suspect this live center may have been designed for one of Delta's earlier, bigger lathes). The bearings in this live center are much beefier than the stock 46-460 center … hope you find it useful as I have.


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## MNgary (Oct 13, 2011)

I think selecting the piece of wood to be turned and design/shape are also parcel to being a good turner.


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

Russell, you touched on an important point. I am very mechanically minded. All of the stuff you describe I don't struggle with at all. It just makes sense to me. I don't have to think about tool set up or tune up.

I think expensive chucks, high end lathe tools, extreme precision sharpening systems and a lot of the other stuff you mention allow mediocre turners to be intermediate turners. People were turning finials long before youtube (or electricity for that matter).

To me, the difference between good and great is artistic vision. As I mentioned, I am a mechanical guy. I know how the mechanics work. I know the sweet spots for all of my turning tools, I can predict catches almost every time, I know exactly when it's time to hit the grinder, and I can tell by the sound when it's time to move up to the next grit while sanding

What I don't have the the artistic vision to take something from perfectly crafted and fully functional to a complete work of art. I'm not going to use anyone's work here, but this last weeks AAW featured turning. The subtle, elegant styling of this otherwise plainish walnut bowl is something that escapes me.










That is not an advanced skill hollow form/finial/ultra thin/super rare exotic wood /impossible to do turning. This is the difference between good and great - not chuck knowledge, assortment of tools, sharpening systems, etc/


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Joe, The stuff I'm posting is stuff for beginners like myself. These are the hurdles we face that other experienced turners do not or have forgotten because they learned it, so it's not the big deal it is to me. 
The level of art is a discipline that everyone can attain if they follow the proper procedures. The wood has a lot to do with the final outcome and not everything I turn has the capacity to be a great piece. Buying blanks online can be dull at times, but I've gotten some sweet bowls too. 
Love the finish on that bowl, but you know, there are LJ's that would still say that there is no benefit sanding walnut to 1200+. Well looky here guys.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

I've sanded a few things to really high grit and it's fun once in awhile but the improvement isn't always worth the effort. 320-400 + burnishing is about tops for a utilitarian piece and 600 for anything decorative.


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

That is my point with this piece. This is a dull, plane-jane piece of walnut. As far as sanding - the finish I apply and the type of piece dictates how much I sand. On turnings, I almost always sand to 12k. If I am doing a CA finish I will sand the wood to about 600, because CA cures quickly and I want to get some in the grain. The CA then gets sanded to 12k followed by some plastic polish then finally paste wax.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

The shape is elegant and more interesting than the finish.


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

Has anyone heard of the tale of the emperors new clothes?

well woodturning,woodworking,Photography engineering etc,etc, etc, is all the same thing when we get conned into buying stuff we don't really need.I am guilty too ! but then I learned making a lot of stuff yourself including tools etc is real fun.But then I have an engineering shop to designed originally to make jigs for myself owing to the parkinsons and saftey around thatbut as said I make a lot of jigs tools myself.Or buy and alter.Alistair


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

Russell, have turned Morse taper centers with different points that fit head/tailstock out of wood. I have also made some wood points that fit over my Jet live center once cone removed. once take cone off Jet and remove point center can insert piece of wood turned to fit. Prefer my Grizzly over Jet live center and same thing made wood points which fit over 60 degree point.

I would lose all those points that come with one of these:

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/5/-/25/108/-/2664/Teknatool-Nova-Multi-Tip-Revolving-Center

Took some pictures this morning and spent last forty-five minutes uploading 6 photos to photo bucket. Just too tired to mess with posting photos today.


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

I'd like to propose a challenge. Not a show off "who's the best turner ever!" challenge, but something to prove you don't need a million dollars worth of tools. Anyone who participates should use the same size chunk of wood (of their choosing) and you have to turn a bowl using ONLY a faceplate.


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## emart (Mar 16, 2011)

@ Russell i think most of my shop problems would be solved by knowing a good machinist =P there is just only so many things you can improvise without that ability. some day i will be rich like one of my friends and own my own bridgeport


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Bill, I have something similar on the way.


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