# Finishing Eastern Red Cedar



## Fax (Feb 23, 2017)

Hello friends,
Trying to refinish a cabinet that I think it is Eastern Red Cedar.
Very old cabinet from Germany, made over 50 years ago. 
It looked gray without any beauty or grain.
It had been waxed all these years and the wax got so hard
Now the wood graing is SO BEAUTIFUL, 
Sanding dust is reddish.
Very hard wood.
Very heavy compared to any other wood I have worked on.
Very dense and britle.
Beautiful grain patterns.
Reddish and White when I apply Lacquer thinner to wipe off the wood.
.
I would like to apply Waterlox Varnish or Arm R Seal

Question 
Should I apply Seal coat of shellac, 
because it had so much wax over the years, even if I rinse it thoroughly with Acetone and Lacquer Thinner,
Then Waterlox or Arm R Seal

I did some reading about Eastern Red Cedar and someone mentioned that this wood, eastern cedar has oils and must apply seal coat of shellac, otherwise the varnish will not dry.

What do you recommend? 
Thank you very much for your help ! 
Julian


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

got a picture .. is the wood soft and does it smel llike cedar


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## Fax (Feb 23, 2017)

> got a picture .. is the wood soft and does it smel llike cedar
> 
> - CharlesNeil


It is very hard, feels like a rock .
Very heavy.
Edges are very hard.
Had a gray look before I sanded it.
As soon as I wet it a bit with solvent lacquer it shoes beautiful color, reddish and white.
I will try to smell it as soon as I get home from work.
I used lots of lacquer thinner and acetone to wipe old grime, waxes, and oils that were used.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

That doesnt sound like cedar, cedar is soft , usually some what knotty ..


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## johnstoneb (Jun 14, 2012)

Need a picture. If it is actually from Germany I doubt that it is Eastern Red Cedar. Eastern red cedar is just a little bit softer than Cherry. Cedar 900 Janka, Cherry 950 Janka. Eastern Red Cedar is a juniper it doesn't have much or any oil some of the knots may bleed. You might want to seal them with shellac but if it is actually 50 years old any sap will have dried up long ago.
It is not particularly heavy about the same weight as Black Cherry a little bit lighter than Black Walnut
As Charles says pictures would really help. If you sand down to new wood the cedar small will fill your shop. You'll smell it as soon as you walk into the shop. You haven't mentioned any smell and you would notice that immediately.Hence the name aromatic red cedar.


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## Fax (Feb 23, 2017)

> That doesnt sound like cedar, cedar is soft , usually some what knotty ..
> 
> - CharlesNeil


As a classical guitar player I know that whenever I see a new guitar, I try to smell it inside because of the beautiful cedar scent. 
But this doesn't have that obvious scent of cedat. 
And it is impossible to put a nail in it; must dril first.

Thank you very much for your help!
Julian


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## Fax (Feb 23, 2017)

> Need a picture. If it is actually from Germany I doubt that it is Eastern Red Cedar. Eastern red cedar is just a little bit softer than Cherry. Cedar 900 Janka, Cherry 950 Janka. Eastern Red Cedar is a juniper it doesn t have much or any oil some of the knots may bleed. You might want to seal them with shellac but if it is actually 50 years old any sap will have dried up long ago.
> It is not particularly heavy about the same weight as Black Cherry a little bit lighter than Black Walnut
> As Charles says pictures would really help.
> 
> - johnstoneb


Now that I think of how much sanding I did yesterday, I didn't notice any scent of cedar as I do when I see a new guitar made with cedar; you feel it right away.

Thank you very much for your help !

Julian


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## Fax (Feb 23, 2017)

I will post pictures how it looks when i wet it with acetone


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## Fax (Feb 23, 2017)

> got a picture .. is the wood soft and does it smel llike cedar
> 
> - CharlesNeil


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## Fax (Feb 23, 2017)




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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

not sure, but its definately not 
Cedar


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## Fax (Feb 23, 2017)

> not sure, but its definately not
> Cedar
> 
> - CharlesNeil


Since I sanded and rinsed the wood several times with lacquer thinner to remove all wax, 
I would like to go with the Waterlox varnish.
Would you recommend a seal coat of Shellac or not needed anymore ?


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

Eastern Red Cedar is as common as weeds around here. I have cut down several in my yard and I wish the rest of them were gone. It is a little bit oily but I never heard of anybody having to seal with shellac prior to varnishing if it has been dried well. It is a popular wood for building bird houses because it is rot resistant. I just ground up a stump in my yard that had been there since I cut the tree down 30 years ago. The only use I have for it is to CNC carve outdoor signs for campers and rustic cabins. I have not found it to be very heavy or very dense. Are you sure we are talking about the same species?


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## Fax (Feb 23, 2017)

> Eastern Red Cedar is as common as weeds around here. I have cut down several in my yard and I wish the rest of them were gone. It is a little bit oily but I never heard of anybody having to seal with shellac prior to varnishing if it has been dried well. It is a popular wood for building bird houses because it is rot resistant. I just ground up a stump in my yard that had been there since I cut the tree down 30 years ago. The only use I have for it is to CNC carve outdoor signs for campers and rustic cabins. I have not found it to be very heavy or very dense. Are you sure we are talking about the same species?
> 
> - ArtMann


I don't know the woods well. I am just learning it each day after work. My wife calls it my "Mid-life crisis" but I think it is the nicest hobby weather married or not married. I am amazed how much there is to know to make wonderful finishes. Even my kids find reasons to hang around me more.
Now my wife is actually very happy that I kept at it for a couple of years now; she has a big list of TO DO for me. Kitchen cabinets, dining table, chairs, bedroom set, bookcases, food trays, kitchen wood stuff, and anything that has wood … My son damaged some furniture and I was not upset at all…more reasons to justify my "Mid-life crisis"


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## johnstoneb (Jun 14, 2012)

Definitely not cedar can't help beyond that.


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## Fax (Feb 23, 2017)

> Definitely not cedar can t help beyond that.
> 
> - johnstoneb


Actually now that I think of it, I don't smell cedar after so much sanding.


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## Fax (Feb 23, 2017)

> Definitely not cedar can t help beyond that.
> 
> - johnstoneb
> 
> ...


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## Fax (Feb 23, 2017)

> not sure, but its definately not
> Cedar
> 
> - CharlesNeil


This is a picture before I started it


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Even experts have trouble telling what some woods are, so you could be in for a ride.

From your description and a lot of experience with redwood and aromatic, consider this another vote against this being cedar, since your description comes nowhere near any I have ever seen or played with.

What woods were common in the Black Forest?

Oh, and there is a lot of redwood and cedar that is very tight grain with no knots. Were it otherwise, we wouldn't have guitar wood cedar bolts that so many cedar mills long for.


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## Fax (Feb 23, 2017)

> Even experts have trouble telling what some woods are, so you could be in for a ride.
> 
> From your description and a lot of experience with redwood and aromatic, consider this another vote against this being cedar, since your description comes nowhere near any I have ever seen or played with.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much ! Good one, since it was purchased in Germany, it is very likely something from that region.


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## Fax (Feb 23, 2017)

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FRIENDS ! It is such a privilege to be able to ask the experts whenever I am learning something new. This blog is awesome and so useful. 
After lots of sanding and wiping the old wax finish with lacquer thinner,
I just brushed on two coats of Dewaxed Shellac as a sealer because of all the wax imbedded in the grain.
Tomorrow I will sand it a bit and apply Arm R Seal, Satin. 
Is 220 or 320 better between seal coat and top coat ?
Should I apply gloss and finish with Satin, or should I just apply 3 coats of satin. 
I read that gloss is tougher and it is better to use Satin as last sheen. 
Here are a few pictures with two coats of seal coat, Dewaxed Shellac


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## HTown (Feb 25, 2015)

From everything I've read and my own limited experience, it can't hurt and would likely help to seal with a dewaxed shellac before the lacquer. If Charles comes back with some advice, I'd go with it. Good luck.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

I agree the shellac is a good sealer and good precautionary step.
320 is fine to sand between coats, as to the gloss then satin .. that works but usually i just do the satin and be done


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

Too me it looks like Swiss pear and a very low grade.
I have not seen it with so much sap wood.
The chest is very cool like it a lot .


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## Fax (Feb 23, 2017)

> I agree the shellac is a good sealer and good precautionary step.
> 320 is fine to sand between coats, as to the gloss then satin .. that works but usually i just do the satin and be done
> 
> - CharlesNeil


Thank you Charles ! I remember from one of your videos the advice to seal with Dewaxed Shellac as a precaution; and here the wood felt like no matter how much I rinse and sand the wood, in the end the wood texture felt waxy.

This morning, seeing all these replies and help, I was so amazad…speechless, it feels like when I was back in the military, A BIG FAMILY helping and supporting one another. 
After college in 1993, I enlisted in US ARMY and served for 8 years in numerous places: Fort Knox, Maryland, Germany, Bosnia, and South Korea in 2000. 
My wife and I got married at Fort Knox and EVERYONE from my company came to the wedding…A BIG FAMILY ready to help and support one another. 
O'Neil Chapel at Fort Knox was fully packed with soldiers. My wife was so impressed by that. 
This thing right here right now feels the same, A BIG FAMILY. 
Thank you so much Charles and thank you all for your help !!!
Julian


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Any time , my pleasure .. 
a job well done, nice to see the chest being restored


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## Fax (Feb 23, 2017)

> Too me it looks like Swiss pear and a very low grade.
> I have not seen it with so much sap wood.
> The chest is very cool like it a lot .
> 
> - Aj2


Thank you AJ
I will post a picture of the whole thing when finished. 
I was to anxious yesterday and applied dewaxed shellac just a half of the top lid just to see what it will look like.


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## Fax (Feb 23, 2017)

Hello friends,
Thank you very much for your help !
I am learning one lesson at a time! 
Have a wonderful weekend !



















I finished it. 3 coats of Arm-R-Seal. Satin. 
After the first coat of Arm-R-Seal, I applied a thin glaze of Gel Stain, Nutmeg, General Finishes. 
Then two more coats of Arm-R-Seal. Satin.


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## Fax (Feb 23, 2017)

I don't know why the pictures are flipped upside down when uploading them.


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## wood2woodknot (Dec 30, 2012)

Beautiful piece.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

The before and after photos are pretty amazing Julian. You really are talented.


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## Fax (Feb 23, 2017)

> Beautiful piece.
> 
> - wood2woodknot


Inside the wood chest it was a nasty smell. After wiping it with acetone I applied 3 coats Garnett Shellac. Now my daughter sais that it smells like candies inside…I think shellac has a sweet smell.


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## Fax (Feb 23, 2017)

> The before and after photos are pretty amazing Julian. You really are talented.
> 
> - RichTaylor


I got home from work and since my wife took the kids shopping, it was my time to try new things. 
I am now learning how to use the Solar-Lux NGR dyes by Behlen; great stuff.


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

I work with Eastern red cedar most every day and I think what you have there is not cedar. Cedar is quite light and soft. Looks like apple to me. 
I apply shellac to cedar before applying polyurethane. Shellac seals the cedar well even though I sand much of it off.


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## Fax (Feb 23, 2017)

> I work with Eastern red cedar most every day and I think what you have there is not cedar. Cedar is quite light and soft. Looks like apple to me.
> I apply shellac to cedar before applying polyurethane. Shellac seals the cedar well even though I sand much of it off.
> 
> - Jim Finn


Yes, definitely not cedar; not a hint of cedar smell and is a very hard wood. 
The box was loose and wobbly; I had to drill holes prior to reinforcing it from the inside to keep nails and screws from breaking or bending.
On the inside I left it with three coats of Shellac for the smell. I keep opening it and the smell of shellac is so sweet inside the cabinet. 
Someone said not to apply oil varnish inside cabinets because of the smell but just to use shellac; what do you think ? 
Regarding cedar, I am glad you say Shellac prior to Polyurethane; I will make a note of it. 
Thank you very much Jim !


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