# taking logs to a sawmill



## gezz (Aug 2, 2007)

Hello everyone. Need some advice on something I've not done before. The power company took down a few black walnut trees on my property. I'm planning on taking them to the local sawmill to have them cut into assorted sizes. If I want to end up with lumber that will measure 3/4 inch thickness after drying out and the milling process is complete, what rough thickness should I have the mill cut the green logs? I'm thinking at least a full inch. Or should it be at least 5/4 inches thick?
Also should the wood on the outer rings of the log which have very little dark color be sawn to use for projects as well. Other than the lack of the dark heartwood, will these board dry and mill the same as the heartwood?

Lastly would you recommend quarter sawing them or going with traditional flat sawing the log for most yield?
I'm planning on taking them next week so any comments will be extremely helpful.

Thanks'
Mark


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## BTKS (Nov 30, 2008)

It sounds like you have the basic bases all covered. I'd go 5/4 on the thickness. This allows a little easier resawing for matched panels etc too. Not to mention the inevitable variances in boards. A small band saw mill will usually have the greatest inconsistencies vs a blade. But the bandsaw will not waste as much wood. A large stationary professional bandsaw mill will only take about 3/32 kerf vs 3/8 kerf from a blade.
I would go with the flat sawn. You'll still get roughly 1/3 or so of your final product will be quarter sawn and you'll save about 25% waste, not to mention the extra time and labor to flip the log and mill at odd angles. At least these are rough numbers I have picked up from various sawyers over the years.
As for the pulp wood on black walnut. This wood has reacted the same as the heart wood in some previous projects of mine. I know one guy who takes the sawdust from milling, wets it and packs it around the pile of lumber. He then wraps the entire stack in black plastic and lets it sun bake. The tannins in the dust and heartwood bleed into the pulp wood for greater dark yield. I prefer the contrast of the natural pulpwood myself. It's a technique and some peoples preference but not really mine.
Sorry this is such a rambling mess. Just so off the cuff thoughts.
Hope this helps. Sounds like you've done your research already. Best of luck.
BTKS


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## tkh (Sep 18, 2010)

Make sure you paint the ends of the logs with anchorseal or something like this to seal the ends to keep logs from end-checking. I have had good luck with either 4/4 or 5/4 boards, as long as you sticker the wood evenly and place weight on the top of the pile or strap the pile with tie-downs. As far as inconsistent in the cuts, I have a Timberking 1600, and if I am cutting Walnut that has more value then say Pine, I will make sure I have a sharp blade to cut with. My bandmill cuts very accurate boards, the only time you get a difference in thickness would be stress in the wood, and the wood moving while you are cutting. Walnut does not do this, cuts very nice. As far a drying, Air Dried is the best to retalin color, if you are in a hurry then dry it in a kiln. Most woodworkers prefer Walnut Air Dried, that is why I dry mine in a Solar Wood Kiln. Have your wood plain sawn, quartersawn Walnut does not produce the effect like a white oak would. As far a the sapwood, if you want fine furniture grade, cut out the sapwood, this will likely happen when the log is squared into a cant. If you want the sapwood on some pieces, ask the sawyer to make a few cuts with the live edge on both sides with the bark, you can do this on the top and bottom of the log, will take longer and remember time is money when you are cutting logs into lumber.


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## gezz (Aug 2, 2007)

Thanks very much to both tkh and BTKS. THIS SITE NEVER LET'S ME DOWN WHEN I NEED ANSWERS QUICKLY!

*One question I failed to ask… When I'm cutting the logs to length, I chose to cut them no longer than 4 feet. I figure in most projects that would be ideal length without much waste. In your experience is there any need to make them longer? The 4 foot length also allows for ease in moving them around and getting them to the sayer.*


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## Daren (Sep 16, 2007)

A 4' length is a PITA for a sawyer, harder to clamp down and more log loading (2X as much as an 8'). I charge by the hour for shorts and small diameter logs because I just cannot make enough bft with all the messing around and not really milling.
I would ask the guy you plan on taking them to if he would even mess with shorts (some guys can't/won't) 
6' is about as short as I want to see around here if I am custom milling.


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## gezz (Aug 2, 2007)

*I can appreciate the Pita work that you feel it is. But I don't have a lot of choice in the matter. There aren't many places I can take the wood locally. I didn't cut the trees the power co. did. It would certainly be a shame not to harvest the wood because they are shorter lengths. However the mill I'm taking it to said he can charge by the hour or by the cut. That being the case is it not possible to cut shorts because of clamping them down or is it just Pita? If it makes any difference the sayer has a machine with a large circular blade, not a band saw blade like yours. I'm making that assumption with your mill.*


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## Daren (Sep 16, 2007)

I don't know if he can clamp them down or not, that is why I said ask him. (did you do that?) I built my own deck to handle shorts, being a niche sawyer. Most manufactured sawmills are not set up to do them. For sure make the trees into lumber since they are already down, don't waste them. But don't cut them so short for easy handling on your end they are worthless at the mill is all I was advising. 
The difference between a circle mill and one like mine is he is going to make a lot more sawdust per cut = less lumber. And it's going to be rougher sawn = thicker initial cuts to get your finished usable dimension.


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## WIwoodworker (Apr 10, 2008)

If you're looking for a finished dimension of 3/4" there's no reason to cut it more than 4/4.


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## gezz (Aug 2, 2007)

*Ok. And thanks Daren for getting back. If you want, I'll let you know how I make out. 
should be going sometime next week. Hope your holiday went well>>>*


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## Karson (May 9, 2006)

Good Luck Mark.


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## gezz (Aug 2, 2007)

*Hey Karson. Haven't seen you since the picnic in SJ. at Lee's shop.
I've been reading all of your posts. I'm retired now and still don't know how you find the time to do all the work that you do.*


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## TheWoodsman (Jun 21, 2010)

Just so you know, when you cut according to the 4/4 scale on a mill such my Woodmizer LT40HD, the blade drops about 1 1/4 per board cut. When you subtract blade kerf, you get boards that are about 1 1/8" green and close to 1" to 1 1/16" dry (depending on species). This is the standard. Remember, that you need the extra to allow you to plane out cupping and straighten out the boards so don't try to cut it too close.


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## gezz (Aug 2, 2007)

*That makes sense. with a mill that uses a circular blade does the same hold true. Ask the sawyer to give me a yield of 1" plus?*


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## TheWoodsman (Jun 21, 2010)

I'm not too familiar with the scale on circular mills but I am gonna say "YES". When I used to do all thebuying for the company I used to work for, I would order our 4/4 in as "S2S 15/16". Some also call this "Hit or Miss" because, while most 4/4 lumber will clean up at 15/16" some of the "less flat" boards will not.

I've seen less knowledgeable guys cut lumber at an actual 1" thickness and then you can't get it to clean up at more than 5/8". I would actually ask the guy, "If I have you cut the lumber on 4/4 scale, how thick will the green boards be ?" The answer should be around 1 1/16 to 1 3/16". This will also help determine if he is clueless or not. : )


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## Dcase (Jul 7, 2010)

I was under the impression that when milling boards you want to end up with about an inch and then you can joint and plane them down to 3/4 from there.

If the trees are coming from the city they may have metal in them. Some saw mills will freak out about that so you should check before hand and make sure they wont charge you an arm and leg for a blade if they hit metal.


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## TheWoodsman (Jun 21, 2010)

Right. You should be close to 1" after drying the lumber. That means you want something closer to 1 1/8" or so when freshly sawn.


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## gezz (Aug 2, 2007)

*I may be going to the mill on tuesday. I have to call and set an appointment. When I go however I'm asking him to saw the logs to give me a board thickness of 1 1/8" 
Sound like a plan?*


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## RandyMarine (Mar 5, 2009)

I cut down 2 Black Walnuts in June…I had them milled to 4/4 and 8/4, so far during the drying process I have some twisting and warping but I should be able to mill it out to 3/4. For what it's worth.


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## TheWoodsman (Jun 21, 2010)

Yes, Mark. Here's a couple of links just to reinforce what I am passing on.

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Thickness_of_Rough_Lumber.html

Tiny Timbers also has informative info on their website
http://tinytimbers.com/glossary_measure.htm


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## gezz (Aug 2, 2007)

*Thanks Randy and "The Woodsman" 
I'm now ready to stack and sticker the rough sawn boards. I'm putting them outside and will be placing heavy cinder blocks on the top of the pile after I've covered the top with a tarp. Does that sound right to you? Or do you have more suggestions on the proper way to do this? Also how much time (estimate) am I looking at before I can use this lumber in a project?

Thanks guys and anyone else that would like to contribute….
Mark G.*


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## TheWoodsman (Jun 21, 2010)

First, careful stacking is the key to getting good, straight dry lumber. Make sure you have a solid foundation that will support cross pieces at least every two feet. I've grown to prefer them closer to 18" as it really makes a difference. Keep your strips one above the last in straight vertical rows. Save any less than perfect boards/lower quality boards for the top layers. They will help hold down the better boards and keep them straight. The best way to treat the top is to lay old plywood on strips above the top layer(you always want air gaps for the drying) then tarp and then concrete blocks. If you use tin instead of the tarp, you can skip the plywood. Try to stack where you can keep as much rain from getting into the pile as possible. Oh, DO NOT use green stickers. Even if it means buying some cheap pine from the home center, use dry stickers to prevent mold.

Since you are stacking late in the year, I would say next fall you could use 4/4 or at least bring some of it indoors to acclimate prior to use.


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## gezz (Aug 2, 2007)

Woodsman. Thanks for taking the time to explain proper stacking. I didn't realize I needed the gap above the pile also. I would have placed the tarp right on top and probably trapped moisture under it. I am making the cradle I'm stacking it in very stable. Do you recommend painting the ends of the boards to reduce checking? If so what do you use? Homemade or storebought?
Mark


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## TheWoodsman (Jun 21, 2010)

See your PM. Anchorseal is the best but costs over $10 a gallon. Using oil based paint, any old stuff, is the next best option. If applied before the lumber or logs start to check, you can pretty much prevent any checking. Check out the ends of these sassafras and red oak boards which I dried.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh156/woodsmanspics/Woodworking%20pics/003-4.jpg


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## gezz (Aug 2, 2007)

*I'll see where to find the anchorseal. I think $10 is well worth it. Keeping the lumber quality and stablility is very importent. The picture you sent says it all!

What does "see your PM" mean?
Mark*


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## racerglen (Oct 15, 2010)

Personal message..


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