# Surface Grinding Plane Soles - Need a pic please



## JustJoe (Oct 26, 2012)

I'm at that sweet nexus where my woodworking hobby, metalworking hobby, and old-tool addiction collide. I now own a surface grinder. I've got a few off-name junker planes I've been saving to play with - I want to use the surface grinder to flatten the sole of the plane, and for the planes that are beefy enough, I then want to grind the sides a perfect 90 to the sole. I found a few threads about people that took it out to be done, but what I need is a pic from someone who is actually doing it themselves because I can't figure out how to (accurately) secure the plane to the magnetic chuck so that the sole is parallel to the stone. I can do it for a side, but then for the sole I've got those @#% curved sides screwing with me.

So can anyone provide a pic of a plane properly secured for grinding the sole on a surface grinder?

Thanks
Joe


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## rkober (Feb 15, 2012)

I've thought about it but not done it. There are no machined reference surfaces on the top so I think you'd have to use three or four miniature jacks (and/or two vises) on the rough castings and indicate the bottom to hit with grinder. Then reference from there.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I've bought a few from another guy (another forum) who does that. Take a look at these pics and see if they help. I have no idea if there are any clues in there, but it won't hurt to look.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

grinding vise (pic purpose is to show the vise. in this case on a mill table holding another vise at an angle- different setting):










Use parallels or 1-2-3 blocks on top of the vise jaws to align plant sole parallel to table.


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## JustJoe (Oct 26, 2012)

Thanks guys. 
rkober - you identified the same problem that is bugging me - there's no easy way to reference off the bed, which becomes the bottom when the plane is flipped over for grinding.

Fred H. - thanks, the only pic was of the plane on its side but that did remind me I have the angle piece to clamp it like that.

PurpLev - I've got the grinding vise, thanks. I hadn't thought of a vise instead of the magnet but it still only gets me halfway there. Problem is going to be shimming/jacking/leveling the plane because it won't just sit on parallels - there are ribs of different thicknesses running around the edge, the knobs, the frog area etc. The only way to do it - and it sounds like a major PIA for a hobbyist like me - is to make sure the grinder is perfectly leveled, and then put the plane in the vise and use shims and my starrett machinist level to slowly get it perfectly level side/side and front/back.

I'm wondering if I can put it on blocks so it doesn't touch the table, align it parallel to the table, and then put a cup-wheel on the grinder and go at it from the sides. It will still need careful positioning, but I can do that alignment fairly easy with a gauge.


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## sikrap (Mar 15, 2009)

I know a guy that grinds soles/sides. I'll get hold of him and ask if he'd be willing to send you some pics.


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## DocBailey (Dec 9, 2011)

go here:
http://www.tablesawtom.com/plane.htm
(about half-way down the page)


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

well,
There are many ways to do it, but, I wouldnt do it as pictured.
Angle plates are needed for sure.
My easier way.
First, I would determine the best side that relates to the sole.
Run a file on the side to remove burrs, determine that a side will rest flat against the angle plate or plates. If it does not, I would shim it with paper strips. This will prevent twisting the casting when clamped.
Clamp the side to the angle plate, using a dial indicator, adjust the sole to be flat or true as possible to the grinder wheel head. 
Using vises on grinder for a job like this one, well, is odd to me, and can induce deflection, and distortion problems on such a thin section casting.
Grind the sole first.
Then with the sole against the angle plate or plates, and adusted true as possible, grind the side that was started with.
Then the last side can be ground without the plates, on the mag chuck.


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## JustJoe (Oct 26, 2012)

OK guys - thanks, I think I've got enough info to give it a shot. The pics and descriptions helped a lot. I've got all those height/surface gauge things I've collected over the years so now I guess I'll have to learn to use them correctly. First I need to get the grinder grinding - I got it off the truck last night and onto the driveway - no easy feat because it was on the back of a pickup just about at max lift height for my engine hoist. So now I just need to get it into the garage, cleaned up, put back together, wired, and then moved out to the workshop. The stone that's on it actually looks like a waterstone (it was being used to polish mirrors when I bought it) so I probably need to order some rougher stones too. I'll know more when the sun comes up up and I can start working on it.


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## sikrap (Mar 15, 2009)

The post by Doc is for the guy I was referring to.


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## bentontool (Jan 8, 2022)

Agree with unbob, sounds like the best way to do it… thanks.


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## bentontool (Jan 8, 2022)

UNBOB- I totally agree with this method of grinding… I will admit that I cracked one plane body by clamping it… I will not do it again.



> well,
> There are many ways to do it, but, I wouldnt do it as pictured.
> Angle plates are needed for sure.
> My easier way.
> ...


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

I have recently been pondering flattening smaller planes on my knee mill. I had pretty much decided on holding it in a vise with a jack set tight between the cheeks to prevent distortion or breakage and then a jack on each end to prevent the plane from shifting. But now that this thread has been resurrected, I'm wondering if maybe an angle plate and jacks would be a better option? Just not sure if leaving one side unclamped would allow too much vibration.

I'm planning to face the sole first removing as little material as possible then reference that to square the sides IF the sides are thick enough to withstand removal. I'd run a flycutter with either a HSS bit or a carbide insert (will experiment with both to see what leaves better surface finish).

I'd welcome any thoughts anyone may have


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## bentontool (Jan 8, 2022)

Hello HokieKen,

I guess using a mill is not optimal, but if that is what you have, I would go for it. Are you planning to use a fly-cutter? It might be best option short of a surface grinder. Someone in one of the posts related to this topic said that using a mill would then require just as much time sanding the sole on a flat-plate, but I disagree. I guess it depends on how far-out the sole was to begin with and how good a job you do on the mill (no chatter, etc.).

Your point related to vibration is valid. I had the same problem truing-up a jointer fence on my Bridgeport. Then I purchased a flat-belt drive 8" x 24" Whitmark & Moran Surface Grinder locally from Paper Shop (running in good condition) for $200. I love it. It was one of my best purchases ever. It has bronze bearings and holds 1/2 a thou across the 24". Professional shops only want CNC now-a-days and most people don't have the room for flat-belt machines as they tended to be larger/heavier. Sadly, a lot of flat-belt and some non-CNC machines end up in the scrapyard. I have seen it and it breaks my heart. If you see one and have the room, perhaps consider it. Try calling local scrapyards, check Paper Shop, eBay, Craig's List, etc. You can do a lot of tool restoration, sharpening, and other work with a surface grinder. Even Brown & Sharpe surface grinders can be had reasonably now-a-days.

I think clamping to an angle-plate or two at the back in addition to jacks at the ends are the way to go. If you have room for more angle plates in the front that would cure your vibration issues. Some people make their own fixtures. You can weld one up and true it on your mill, or shim it into true. Do an internet search for ideas.

P.S. Why machine the sides square? Are you planning to use it on a shooting board? If so, then you need machine only one side.

Tombstone angle plate. Four of these would be great! Perhaps turned sideways would fit:









This may be hazardous, but seemed to work for this person. Note the jacks at the ends. Note the vises clamp near the sole:











> I have recently been pondering flattening smaller planes on my knee mill. I had pretty much decided on holding it in a vise with a jack set tight between the cheeks to prevent distortion or breakage and then a jack on each end to prevent the plane from shifting. But now that this thread has been resurrected, I m wondering if maybe an angle plate and jacks would be a better option? Just not sure if leaving one side unclamped would allow too much vibration.
> 
> I m planning to face the sole first removing as little material as possible then reference that to square the sides IF the sides are thick enough to withstand removal. I d run a flycutter with either a HSS bit or a carbide insert (will experiment with both to see what leaves better surface finish).
> 
> ...


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## bentontool (Jan 8, 2022)

Kenny,

I'm not saying buy this (pricey but good)... this is just a quick example searching your area…

https://greensboro.craigslist.org/tls/d/burlington-taft-pierce-surface-grinder/7429977581.html


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Have to watch out about making that supposed unflat sole too thin. And, while you are at it,,surface grind the seats for the frog…...


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

Thanks for the feedback bentontool. I would be using a fly cutter. I disagree with the idea of lapping still being required after milling. I've milled cast iron faces similarly sized to <.002" TIR on surface flatness which is plenty good for me. And even if it needed a few strokes to polish it up on some lapping film I can get it flatter with my mill than I can by hand sanding it on a granite plate.

Agreed, surface grinder is the ideal tool for the job. And if I run into one that I can squeeze into my shop at the right price, I'll most likely grab it. But for the time being I have a mill with both horizontal and vertical heads and an old (flat belt ;-)) South Bend lathe. And for the most part, there isn't much I can't get done on those machines.

The idea of making a fixture has crossed my mind. In the end, I think success will depend on being able to fixture it rigidly enough to avoid chatter and avoid deforming it with clamping pressure at the same time.

And you're right, having the cheeks square to the sole is not necessary most of the time. But, if this is successful, I'd probably offer the service to others and it seems like Veritas/LN have spoiled people to having square cheeks whether they need them or not


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

> Kenny,
> 
> I m not saying buy this (pricey but good)... this is just a quick example searching your area…
> 
> ...


Too rich for my blood. I'd be looking for something around the price you paid ;-)


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Just note the thickness under the blade










They are not all like that
https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/02/06/cut-away-views/


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

Yeah Don, I'm always very aware of casting thickness in the sole as well as the cheeks even when I lap them on granite with sandpaper. I'd leave a plane non-flat rather than compromise the integrity. In the vast majority of the planes I've had though, I probably don't have to remove any more than .010" to get the sole flat. It's an excellent point to bring up though.


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## bentontool (Jan 8, 2022)

Don, great link to cutaways… thanks.

P.S. Don and Kenny… as a last resort, you can always solder a new brass sole on your plane if you go too far… or if afraid you might… easy fix (relatively).


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