# How do I prevent flash rust after electrolysis but before painting?



## matlock_50

I am restoring an old Stanley no.8 that probably should have been used for parts. Anyway, I have done one round of electrolysis on the sole and frog. I was amazed at the results-I couldn't even see the "Stanley" on the lateral adjuster before. There is some pitting, but it is really minimal compared with what I thought it had.

The solution was pretty nasty by the time I pulled them. Most of the Japanning was gone, so I planned to repaint. The problem I have is that I had some flash rust pretty quickly after I pulled them from the solution. Other than that, now that it has been scrubbed up it is pretty well prepped.

I am in Kansas and it has been cold lately, but we are supposed to be in the 60s tomorrow. I was planning to throw the sole and frog back in the tub overnight tonight with fresh solution to get a thorough final bath. What is the best way to do the final clean off and drying prior to painting?

Should I fill another tub with hot water for a final rinse and then hit it with a towel and hair dryer? Should I try and clean it off with mineral spirits?

I'd like to get it from electrolysis tub to painting as quickly as possible.

Thanks for any help.


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## Gene01

I'm watching this thread with interest. I don't have an answer but would like to know what to do, also.


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## donwilwol

drying it with a hair dryer (I use a heat gun) should help quit a bit. I also wipe it off with MS, I'm not sure its necessary, but its an added precaution.

I try to go from there right to priming and painting, but if its good and dry it should be ok. If its still a problem keep some heat on it.


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## hhhopks

I guess there is no way to prevent it after you bring it out of the water based solution.
You can't dry it fast enough. Rust starts to form but should be very lite.
I either ripe it off with WD40 or use a small dremel wire brush.

What kind of primer and paint are you using?
Are you spraying or painting it by brush?
I am debating which method is easier.

1. Spray: Requires masking. Seems to be more work.
2. Brush: Has limited paint selection (locally). No masking (relying on a study hand).

In both cases, I go back with the dremel wire brush to remove paint off of the unwated paint surfaces.


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## matlock_50

Don: Do you wipe is with mineral spirits before hair dryer (while still wet from water) or after? I was toying with wiping with mineral spirits then lacquer thinner, then hair dryer.

hhhopks: I am using Rex Mills' method of spraying duplicolor semigloss black ford engine enamel. He says to use it with no primer.

I was probably only going to mask where the frog meets the sole on both the frog and sole. I may also do the frog. The frog mating surface is pretty simple as I think I am working with a type 8 or 9, so it wouldn't be bad to tape, but it also would be fairly easy to clean off after painting.

The lever is off the frog (the mushrooming was really weak on the pin and it came right off when I received the plane, I'm going to try and repeen it after painting). If I'm feeling really energetic I'll tape the sides and bottom of the sole. I was just going to clean the rest of after painting with some careful filing, sanding, and/or scotch-brite pad/wheel work.

To give you an idea what I started with:



























I had to find a lever cap, blade and chip breaker. But i got what was in the pics for $15, so I'm not complaining.


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## PurpLev

once you take it out of the solution, dump it in a bath of warm soapy water to clean it up, at that point I take it out of the soapy water, spray it with WD-40 to displace the water (what WD-40 is designed for, hence the W-D), and wipe it clean and dry with a (paper) towel, should minimize if not eliminate flash rusting.


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## donwilwol

I dry it first and heat it to dry, then wipe it down.

I'd suggest not painting the sides and sole. The sides will get dinged up easy and the sole should just be waxed and kept waxed. I like the wire brushed look for the sides.

I've used dupli and tried it with and without primer. I never seen any difference.


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## LukieB

I use compressed air, a towel, and a hair dryer. And if I do get a little flash rust some fine steel wool works really good for knocking it off.

Compressed air to get the water out of all the screw-holes, a towel to get the bulk of the water, and the hair dryer to finish up and get the nooks and crannies.

I also use mineral spirits to wipe it down before paint, just to make sure the new paint sticks good.

+1 on what Don said about Dupli-Color Engine Enamel stuff works good, just follow the instructions.
When they say lay all your coats in 1 hour…they mean it. If you have to re-coat after the first hour wait at least 7 days…14 is better.

+1 on not painting the sides or sole as well


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## BTimmons

"If I'm feeling really energetic I'll paint the sides and bottom of the sole."

Uh…why? Those surfaces should only be bare metal and wax.


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## matlock_50

PurpLev: everywhere i've read warns against using WD40 on anything you are going to paint (especially with lacquer), do you have any experience painting over it?

Don: I wasn't going to paint the sides and and bottom - I was just not going to tape them and clean the overspray off later. I just got a scotch-brite wheel and intend to shine the sides and bottom with that (then wax) after I'm done cleaning up with painting. I did the lever cap with it and it is all shiny and fancy now.

LukieB: I definitely will hit it with mineral spirits, probably also with lacquer thinner, too.

I guess you all have talked me into taping the sides and bottom of the sole as long as I work fast. One of the other reasons I was thinking against it was the time it took to do it was time for flash rust to appear.

I'm planning on having about 4 hours for this tomorrow afternoon, so hopefully that will do it. It is my last chance for a while, as the temperature is supposed to be back in the 30s on Saturday.


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## matlock_50

Brian & others: I just noticed that I mistyped above. It should have said if I feel energetic I will tape the sides and bottom of the sole, not paint the sides and bottom of the sole.


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## donwilwol

That makes more sense. I misunderstood about not painting the sides. Take it from a guy with lots of experience, you'll only forget to tape the sides once, assuming you can just sand it off. The dupli comes off hard.


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## Dark_Lightning

In the machine shop biz, to keep steel from flashing it gets rinsed in HOT water, and wiped/blown off. It should evaporate before the rust can form. I wouldn't recommend WD-40 for this, personally. You'll just have another oily residue to clean off. YMMV.


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## matlock_50

Before I left for work this morning, I cranked the hot water heater as high as it would go. I took the afternoon off, so when I got home, I filled a Rubbermaid tub with hot water. I preheated the oven to 300 degrees. Then, I pulled each piece one at a time (frog, sole, fork) and did the following process to each: first I put the piece in the tub and scrubbed off with a green scotch brite pad, then rinsed really well with fresh water from two other pails of hot water. Next I hit it with the hairdryer, then put it in the over for a few minutes and moved to the next piece. It went sole, frog, then fork.

It only took a couple of minutes for each piece. I then pulled each one at a time and wiped with mineral spirits (they were warm to the touch but not too hot when i pulled from the oven - just trying to get the water out of all the pores). Next I wiped again with lacquer thinner and taped all mating surfaces and the bottom and sides of the sole.

I am on the third coat of duplicolor now.


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## a1Jim

I agree with Sharon (Purplev) clean it spray it witn wd40 and just before you paint it dip it or wipe it down with naphtha to take the WD40 off. Experiment with some other piece of metal by going through these steps and make sure you don't have problems with the paint. I haven't restored any planes but when I restored cars it was always important to use a coat of primer then do a light sanding (320grit) before painting.


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## Smile_n_Nod

I spray heavily with WD-40 and wipe it down after a while.


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## matlock_50

Five coats total. I will post pics tomorrow after I pull the tape.


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## derosa

300 was probably a little high. For ancient coins that get the electrolysis bath dropping them in boiling water to for a rinse then into a stove at 160-170 is all that is needed to dry them, better still is a gas stove at low heat which is better then electric at removing moisture.


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## T3744dd

There are two ways to prevent the flash rusting after cleaning the parts. First, immediately after rinsing and without drying dips the parts in an alkaline solution and then drain dry, the alkalinity left on the parts will protect against the flash rust. Prior to painting though, the parts will have to be rinsed with water to remove the alkaline film. Virtually any alkaline cleaner will work such as TSP or TSP substitutes.
The second method is to dip the parts or spray the parts with denatured alcohol and let air dry or hot air dry. The alcohol absorbs the residual water on the parts and evaporates without causing a flash rust . This also leaves a clean surface that can be painted directly.


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## matlock_50

I couldn't wait and pulled tape off. Here are some pics.


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## a1Jim

Looks super nice work.


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## donwilwol

*lookin good*.

That's the other nice thing about dupli. If your careful you can put it back together after about a half hour. If you take note as your putting it back together, you see if done correctly, you never have paint touching paint, so no worries about molding it together.


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## Stephenw

I rinse with hot water. Shake off the excess water and immediately spray with WD-40. This will displace the remaining water and prevent flash rust.

I wipe my parts with Prep-All wax and grease remover before painting. Get it from an auto body supplier.


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## cc_bob

To remove rust and make parts look like brand new I do the following. Note the last step will keep the item from flash rusting for weeks and you can paint over it.

1) Mix a solution of 1 part sulfated molasses to 9 parts water. This is the feed store molasses used for animals. Tractor supply sells it for feeding deer ($7 for a gallon), my local feed store sells it in bulk for a LOT less. Don't use the kind you get in the grocery store.

2) Submerge your parts in the solution and let set for 1 week (the warmer it is the faster it works). The parts should be oil free or the molasses won't remove the rust in those areas.

3) Remove from solution and scrub the part with some scotch-brite under running water, for large parts a pressure washer works great. If it still has some rust just place it back in for another week.

4) Use some phosphoric acid to treat the part after rinsing, just wipe the part down. This will remove all flash rusting and leave a coating that will keep it from rusting for quite a while. You can paint over it as well. Any hardware store should have this, it's used for cleaning concrete. Your part should look like brand new steel at this point and stay that way for a long time.

You can then paint what you want and polish any machined surfaces.

The good things about this method is the molasses is harmless to the environment and will NOT remove any steel. It will remove some loose paint but usually only if there is rust under it. The only down sides to it is it takes a week or two and the mixture smells like someone is fermenting wine. I kind of like the smell but the wife says it smells bad.

I use an old oil tank and can soak entire fenders but a 5 gallon bucket would work well for small batches, you can put a lid on it but make sure it has a breather hile. If you want to make larger batches call you local feed stores, mine sells it in bulk for really cheap if you bring your own container.

Hope this helps someone.


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## exelectrician

The real solution to this problem is, never to use a solution to get rid of rust, you should try elbow grease, and sandpaper. 
Sweat equity produces the pride of a quality rust removal job.


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## matlock_50

The reason I used electrolysis rather than just sanding was my desire not lose any more metal. The plane looked pretty rusty when I got it.

I think next time I might try the phosphoric acid wipe down after the rinse. Now that I have done it I see myself wanting to find and redo a 3 or 4 next (currently I have the 8 I just did and a 5 that is in good enough shape I don't want to redo it).

Here is a pic of what it looks like assembled. Still some work to do (sharpening and eventually reworking the tote).

It didn't look like I had any significant flash rust before I started painting, so I guess I will see how well my paint holds up. Here is a picture of the plane assembled. I took it apart after and will wait a week or so for the paint to cure before I try and use it (I still need to reinstall the fork and peen the lateral adjuster, but I don't want to chance messing with the paint until it has had some time to cure).


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## donwilwol

Plus you can't sand or brush everywhere. Be careful with the lat adjuster. Many frogs have been broken.


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## EEngineer

I second your thoughts on electrolysis and phosphoric acid for that matter. These methods don't just remove rust, they will actually convert some of the rust back into base metal! For heavily pitted parts, I always prefer to use something like this. The same with some other chemical methods such as Evaporust (my favorite right now - I love everything about it except the name).


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## Tarun

After electrolysis there is a nasty rust on my piece? What is the solution for my problem….


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## ColonelTravis

Just did a #8 two weeks ago, got the typical flash rust and for the first time I wet a paper towel with Evaporust and just wiped. It all came off and none came back. Then I painted.


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## Tarun

Sir my piece is of dimension (1500mm*3000mm*10mm). what kind of solution(electrolysis) is required for this piece of work…..?


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## Tarun

Sir my piece is of dimension (1500mm*3000mm*10mm). what kind of solution(electrolysis) is required for this piece of work…..?And sir for how many days the rust not came back….?


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## HorizontalMike

I use any of these, immediately after removing from the final electrolysis bath & rinse:

Naphtha
Acetone
Denatured alcohol

I then blow it dry with my compressed air hose. If I am not going to paint immediately, I will take it inside the house (AC/heat) to keep humidity under control, for the time being.


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## Tim457

Zombie post from 4 years ago revived by someone asking for exactly what was already explained. But I did learn that denatured alcohol works after rinsing a part and sometimes that would be better than using WD-40. WD-40 does work, but if DNA makes it paintable right away that would be easier.


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## DrDirt

> Sir my piece is of dimension (1500mm*3000mm*10mm). what kind of solution(electrolysis) is required for this piece of work…..?
> 
> - Tarun


You need a heck of a tank and a crane arm if you are going to deal with a piece hat size. 5 feet wide 10 feet long and 3/8 thick.


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## TheFridge

For acids I have a bucket of water with baking soda to neutralize it first. Wipe off excess. Warm it with torch paying close attention to screw holes. Maybe some MS then paint. I avoid oils if it has to come right back off for paint.


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## Tarun

Sir what is the alternative for evaporust solution


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## BigYin

Rust … two part answer

1. if going to paint it :- strip, neutralise, rinse, dry (if feeling brave use wifes hair dryer) and then prime. while not long lasting protection primer will do till you have time to finish. dont worry about runs and sags they can sand off before undercoat and top coat.

2. if you aint going to paint then gun blue and oil, plane blades once blued are blue black in colour and lightly ioled will stay rust free longer


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