# Non-Chinese Circular Saw



## Alex1453 (Jul 20, 2011)

Ironically, after coming on here and lambasting any "Made in China" power tools, the obvious happened- UPS promptly delivered my Bosch 1677M circular saw that was (you guessed it) made in China. (OK, quit laughing) So, can anyone recommend a decent, reasonably priced (not Festool money), made-anywhere-but-China circular saw? Also, yeah, I have considered eBay (used or NIB), though I would prefer to buy from a more reputable retailer if possible. So, any suggestions?


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## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

Makita, mine has worked flawlessly for years. well built.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

My "Skil"saw was made in Chicago.

In 1977.

We might as well get used to China Tools.

Your computer was made there along with probably 90% of every thing you have used today. Clock radio, cell phone, computer, tv, coffee pot, kitchen faucet, sink. towels. The list is endless and depressing.


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## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

ditto MAKITA

ANYTHING Makita.


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## longgone (May 5, 2009)

We should all learn to speak chinese. They sadly seem to be Americas new business landlord and American large business owners are doing all they can to help speed the process along.
The only made in America products to be found will be the collectable antiques.


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

FWIW, China is losing some of the manufacturing jobs to other Asian countries with lower labor costs. Over the past few years, China has seen a significant increase in worker pay and now they are having to compete with other countries to get the jobs. My Chinese sister in law tells me that many of her friends and family now live comfortably middle class lives.

IMO, "Made in China" isn't necessarily a warning label. They manufacture stuff to whatever specs they're given and bad products often result from bad specs instead of poor work.


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

I find it hard to believe that working people in China are being treated fairly.It just doesn't add up. we still cannot compete or else we would.One day they might make such demands but for now I can't see the Chinese government giving in to such demands after all they can't go on strike can they ? The government are calling the shots big time IMHO Alistair


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## pierce85 (May 21, 2011)

From Robert Scott of the Economic Policy Institute (full article here: http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/bp260/):

China's entry into the WTO has further tilted the international economic playing field against domestic workers and firms and in favor of multinational companies from the United States and other countries as well as state- and privately owned exporters in China. This shift has increased the global "race to the bottom" in wages and environmental quality and closed thousands of U.S. factories, decimating employment in a wide range of communities, states, and entire regions of the United States. *U.S. national interests have suffered while U.S. multinationals have enjoyed record profits on their foreign direct investments* (Scott 2008).


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## LeeBarker (Aug 6, 2010)

Your question was to recommend a saw. If you are in the US, you'll find plenty of good, used worm drive saws at hock shops and used tool places. Many will be US made. For years the Skilsaw was the only player, and it is a great saw.

(Except the time in the late seventies when hundreds of blade guards broke at the hub.)

A comment from another LJ helped me to form a philosophy of spending, if you will, in my business: "Keep the dollars as close to home as possible." It seems a reasonable and workable way to consider all the aspects of a pending purchase, not just the COO of the tool, in order to get the best-balanced value.

Kindly,

Lee


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## ChuckM (May 12, 2008)

"I can't see the Chinese government giving in to such demands after all they can't go on strike can they ? The government are calling the shots big time IMHO Alistair"

For the record, Chinese workers cannot go on strike but they can rebel and it has happened repeatedly in recent times (of course, the news is not reported in this part of the world-but if you live in Asia, Hong Kong in particular which has huge investments in China, you see that in the news all the time). Now, the Chinese gov't has to maintain social stability (that's the #1 political objective now) and increasing the living standards (through wage hikes) is part of the tactics achieving that. The Chinese is losing some business to its neighboring countries because of increasing domestic wages. In a way, China will be more like Japan 30 or 40 years ago in 20 or 30 years as it moves its manufacturing industry upscale into high tech stuff. The low end stuff is increasing shifted ot other third world countries. Who knows? May be in 50 years, woodworkers would embrace and chase after China-made woodworking machines as many do today after Japanese vehicles.


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

Scotsman -

How do you define "fair" treatment? AFIK, Chinese workers are rreated "fairly" - based on *their* definitions of fair. I've heard many people claim that Chinese don't get a "living wage", but that's in terms of U.S. standards which really aren't applicable there.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

Skil here but mine is 16 years old.


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## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

I bet 80% or more of the framers around here have been using the blue Makita's for the last 15 years. Of course, they all block the safety with a wedge.

Of corded, I have an old Craftsman that I rarely use. What I want is the corded Skil trim saw that is reversed perspective like a worm gear. I used one (a buddy's) and have wanted one ever since. I missed one last year marked down at Lowe's to $79 (they're usually in the $100 to $120 range). I like the "worm gear" perspective much better than standard (which has always seemed backwards to my right-handed self). Real worm gears are just too big and heavy.


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## PutnamEco (May 27, 2009)

If you don't want Chinese, your going to have to pay for the privilege. Mafell and Hilti are the only options beside Festool/Protool that I know of. I think Hilti may be headed towards Asian production as well, though.

I would be willing to pay for an American made clone of Black & Deckers original Sawcat done in carbon fiber and titanium


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Look on the bright side. At the rate we are going, we will be one of those third world countries that will be able to compete with China for jobs in the near future.


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## teejk (Jan 19, 2011)

Alex

you made me go look at my Bosch! It's a CS20 and says "made in the USA" but is 2-3 years old now so maybe that's changed (a great saw by the way even if a little heavy).


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

I agree with PutnamEco, the *B&D Super Sawcats *were the best in their time, although a bit heavy. Made in USA.

Still using one of three that I bought in 1977, my brother has one and unsure as to what happened with the third…

Was the only saw we used when framing. Very tough.

Good luck in your quest!


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## GSwoodworker (May 22, 2009)

I have a B&D Sawcat that i have used for 20 years. I will cry my eyes out when it decides to call it quits. I will have to bury it in the backyard on that sad day. My friend has a makita worm drive and it is a work of art (I have no idea where it's made). I think B&D owns dewalt and porter cable, Which I won't ever buy any of it again. it's all made in china. I believe China will get what coming to them someday soon. You can not pollute your ground water, air and farm fields and expect to live long healthy live. Long live America!


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## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

If my only choice was Black & Decker, for power tools, I would give up woodworking.
COMPLETE JUNK!


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## bamboobill (Jul 14, 2011)

+1 on the Sawcat. I used mine hard for well over 25 years, including many trips to stucco walls with masonry blades. The wormdrive boys never really got, but we who used them did. Finally ran it into the ground and replaced it with a PC Magnesium, the only direct drive that could live up to my old cat. The Sawcat was def. not in the same class as the usual happy homeowner BD junk of today. No comparison.


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## Alex1453 (Jul 20, 2011)

So, let me see if I've got this straight. That's 2 votes for Makita, and a couple of votes for the classic Skil 77 if I can find a decent model at auction or a pawn shop. Correct? Any other suggestions?

Personally, I've done some digging (which included a load of coffee, 2 headaches, and a bit of lamenting), and, at least for new circular saws, here's what I've been able to find (in no particular order). Yes, I've omitted some that I already know are made in China, such as Porter-Cable, Black & Decker, Milwaukee, etc, but if there's something I've left out (or even anyone you'd like to know about), please tell me.

Company/Model - Country of Origin/Assembly

*Makita 5402NA - USA*
Makita 5007NK - China
Makita BSS611Z - China
Makita BSS610 - China
Makita BSS610Z - China
Makita SH01W - China
Makita BSS501Z - China

Bosch CS5 - China
Bosch CCS180K - China
Bosch 1677M - China

*DeWalt DC390K - Mexico
DeWalt DC390B - Mexico
DeWalt DCS390L - Mexico
DeWalt DWS535 - Taiwan
DeWalt DW364K - Mexico
DeWalt DW364 - Mexico
DeWalt DW384 - Mexico*
DeWalt DW368K - China
DeWalt DW369CSK - China
DeWalt DW368 - China

Skil SHD77 - China
Skil SHD77M - China
Skil HD5687-01 - China
Skil HD5680 - China

By the way, has anyone here ever had any experience or encounters with Hitachi circular saws?


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Putnam mentions Hilti. I've got a Hilti hammer drill that's ridiculously well made, much better than I'll ever need. I've got a crusty old Makita that I'll pull out on occasion. In a pinch, I bought a B&D at WalMart while frustrated over a project at my sister's. I still have it, but I have no reason to. It is a laughable piece of equipment, not even worth the $30 or less I paid for it.

If you can find an old worm, like Lee suggests, you'd be getting a much better saw for the money. If I were buying a new one for some reason, I'd buy another Makita, so I guess you can add a vote.


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

I just had to chime in to refute the argument that Made in Germany is somehow superior to Made in China. Now German factories do put out some good products, but Consumer Reports released their top 5 used cars not to buy, and Volkswagen placed #1 and #2 in that list. Probably made in Brazil, but a German company no less…


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

Oh, FWIW, my early 1990s Skil saw is stamped Made in USA.


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## Delta356 (Aug 2, 2010)

You could look at, Porter Cable 6" circular saw, (MADE in Mexico)
Dewalt Worm Drive, (MADE in TIWANA)

Everything else I have seen is made over seas…. ITs very SAAAADDD…...

It's like Drill press, there all made by the same MANF..

Thanks, Michael Frey
Portland, OR

FREY WOODWORKING INC.


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## Alex1453 (Jul 20, 2011)

OK…so that's another vote for Makita. As for the Hilti, it seems like good stuff, albeit at a rather substantial price, but from what I've seen, a lot of their production has moved or is in the process of moving to China.

I think I might've found another one though. I'm not sure how Woodworker's Supply got a hold of this, but if it's true, this could be pretty awesome. Please take a look and tell me what you think.

*Porter-Cable 314 - USA*


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## Delta356 (Aug 2, 2010)

Porter Cable 314 is not USA made, its made in Mexico, unless they sell you one that was made 5 years ago.
They have that at my local woodcraft and it says Mexico. I find Mexico quality things are not bad. There so close to us, quality control is very easy…

Thanks, Michael Frey
Portland, OR

FREY WOODWORKING INC.


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## Alex1453 (Jul 20, 2011)

Thanks Michael! Well, I should've known, still though, I completely agree with you- in many ways, it's a lot closer to home than China.


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## PutnamEco (May 27, 2009)

Re: 
jim C says: 
_If my only choice was Black & Decker, for power tools, I would give up woodworking.
COMPLETE JUNK!_

----
Wasn't always that way, at one time B&D was one of the top makers of professional power tools. They sold out when the market was demanding cheaper tools. It was around the time that Makita was coming up as a viable alternative to US manufactured tools. Not many, if any, American manufacturers survived this ˵value engineering " phase still producing first rate quality professional portable power tools. As I was just starting out at this time , I may not remember all the details. As I remember it, when the Makita 5007 circular saw first came out it was about $40-$50 cheaper than the Porter-Cable/Rockwell 315, the Sawcat. and the Skill 77. About a year or so later B&D, Rockwell and I think even Milwaukee came out with this utterly trash line of "affordable" Saws that were even cheaper than the Makita, and they sold well enough that they put an end to almost all manufacturers pursuing building the best, most durable tools they could, to me that was the start of our current race to the bottom. Skil and Milwaukee held out for a long while as Rockwell/P-C folded and Porter-Cable reorganized under Pentair, bringing us to our current scheme of prosumer and homeowner tool offerings, with no readily accessible first class portable power tools left. 
I still have one running Super Sawcat and one Builders Sawcat, that I like to break out when people say that today's saws are the best. They usually go away impressed at how little vibration there is when running, how quickly the blade brake stops the blade and how smoothly all the adjustments work. They are also impressed by the two piece shoe, with the removable blade side piece that allows a closer cut. As previously mentioned the only downside is the weight, however the stability of the added weight can sometimes be a blessing. 
The most common failure I've seen on these saws has been that the cooling fan breaks free from the armature, probably from the aggressiveness of the blade brake. 
I also remember back in the day that a lot of old timers didn't like the fact that the Sawcat had a "plastic" handle and they all thought it was B&D trying to save some money at the carpenters expense, since most of the saws produced then had all metal construction.


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## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

PutmanEco
Good write up, and probably being older than you, I remember when BD, Dormeyer and others made everything in the USA. They were heavy, indestructible, and built to last a lifetime. I still have a Dormeyer corded drill that stinks of ozone but refuses to quit.
I stand by my statement. The faster BD goes out of business the better.

I'll throw one more curve ball into this discussion. It's not Chinese manufacturing that builds crap, it's our corporations over in China that dictate what the cost to produce products has to be before they agree to a production contract. They are the culprits in all this. The Chinese can manufacture the best quality (based on copying our past manufacturing techniques) if our corporations allow the added cost.
Believe it or not, the Germans manufacture precision machine tools over there but oversee the quality and manufacturing techniques to ensure a product as good as in the Fatherland.
They can't compete any longer at home with their Socialist government, but their corporations are still watching the store in overseas plants for the purpose of quality products.
We, on the other hand have big corporations that stock "big box" outlets with S*** tools to garner corporate profits.
Having said that, my politics are far to the right of Barry Goldwater, as the above sounds like a Berkley rant.
I'm an independent realist, and a former Toolmaker/shop owner who knows how to build a quality product.
That profession is long gone in the this country I used to admire.
Whew! I'm done….....


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## Delta356 (Aug 2, 2010)

Two things I have say on this subject. One China will become the next Japan in being able to produce a quality product, but unlike Japan, china will never be able to innovate a product.
China are copiers.
We Americans are able to create a great design, but no longer are we able to manufacture it in the USA….Thats TRUE (Regain) Capitalism ….. The 80's right… LOL….......

Thanks, Michael Frey 
Portland, OR

FREY WOODWORKING INC.


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## PutnamEco (May 27, 2009)

Re: jim C says:
The faster BD goes out of business the better.
---
I just wish they would see the error of their ways and bring most of their production back to America. 
I started out with B&D and and have many fond memories of using their tools, back when they were still decent.
--
Re:The Germans…
They can't compete any longer at home with their Socialist government, but their corporations are still watching the store in overseas plants for the purpose of quality products.

Festool/Protool (Tool Technic Systems)seems to be doing OK, They make just about all their products in their Neidlingen Germany Factory. They have even won awards for their factory and systems. Germany as a whole has one of the more stable and prosperous economies in the world at the moment. They have a much more sensible bottom up type economy rather than our trickle down system. 
You will get no argument from me about how our corporations are are leading the way, but I'll add they are just giving us what we want, less expensive tools. I'm sure if the tools they are producing were to stop selling they would switch their tactics. I'm starting to think Murphy was right when he said "The best tool is barely adequate"

*Re: 
Alex1453 says: 
Any Suggestions?
*
I recommend that if your going to buy a new sidewinder that you consider the Makita 5007 MGA or the Milwaukee 6394-21
The Makita has a LED light that is a worthy addition that I find to be very handy. It is a fairly light weight saw as well.
The Milwaukee seems to me to be a more durable saw, and the "Tilt-Loc" handle may make cutting easier, although I rarely see any need to reposition the handle. I may just be set in my ways though.

As for worm drives
The P-C 314 is a really nice *little* saw, if you do a lot of plywood work you may be very happy with this saw, however, as for me, I favor Festools T55 for this type of work. you may find yourself wishing for a larger saw should you need to work with regular dimensional lumber. 
I would recommend either the Bosch Bosch 1677MD, Skill SHD77M
The Bosch comes with their direct connect, which comes in handy if you would rather cut your extension cord than the tools power cord. Some people do appreciate its wider top handle more than the Skils
The Skil mag 77 is the industry standard.
Some people really like the Rigid R3210, but I have not seen any that have lasted a long while. I really don't know enough about this saw to give a valuable opinion.

If your really bargain shopping the Ryobi CSB123 seems to be the best of the low end saws, I'm always surprised at the number of these saws on job sites, and they seem to hold up fairly well.

As for Used saws 
I'm always on the look out for the Milwaukee 6368, which is a very reliable drop foot saw, the earlier Japanese produced Makita 5007 NB is a nice light weight saw that is durable. Porter-Cable has their 324MAG and 315-1 which are both worthy saws, my personal preference is the 315-1 as this saw is a little more comfortable for me to use all day. 
The P-C 345 Sawboss was also a well loved saw. if you prefer blade left trim(6") saws, you still may be able to find this new as old stock. 
I would recommend the Skil HD77 as your best bet for a used wormdrive, a lot of the mags (HD77M) were used commercially, and can be really thrashed. I don't think you will really notice the extra weight much in this already heavy saw.

If your going vintage, there is the B&D Sawcat and the original P-C 315 and the Skil 77
The Sawcats will command a premium price as they have quite a following and work very well, probably better than any of today's saws. Be aware that there a a few different generations of Sawcats, the original 997 or cat#3027 are the ones you want, not the later Industrial Series where they value engineered the quality right out of them.
The Porter-Cable 315 are much more reasonable, and in my opinion are a little easier to keep running. 
The early Skil 77 has a started to attract some attention from the collectors so if you come across a mint condition in case specimen be prepared to spend a little money. NEVER buy a vintage saw that sounds like it has gravel in the gearbox. Unless your just going to use it for decoration. replacement parts are hard to find.
There are some others that were nice saws as well, like Thor, Miller Falls, Disston , and others but you will hardly ever find spare parts

Need to start another thread where I'll ask which of todays portable power tools will be tomorrows classics


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## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

Thanks Putnam
Very informative.


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## jerkylips (May 13, 2011)

anyone else find it funny that Makita is the most Chinese-sounding name & one of the few NOT made in China?


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## DaddyZ (Jan 28, 2010)

I don't get it ?

'Made in USA' Great !!! but all the parts come from China !!!!!

We just put our logo on it to sell more products, because big business knows you will not buy it unless it says 'Made in USA'

Just my humble opinion !


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## ferstler (Oct 5, 2008)

The idea here seems to be that while the Chinese can build a lot of stuff when they follow instructions and designs given to them by outsiders, they cannot innovate. I should point out that in the past they were the largest empire in the world (became downright huge after they merged with the Mongols later on) and they invented or discovered before anybody else did:

1. Paper.
2. Printing.
3. Gunpowder.
4. Compass.
5. Rice cultivation.
6. Soybean cultivation.
7. Belt drive system.
8. Blast furnace.
9, Borehold drilling.
10. Toothbrush.
11. Cast iron.
12. Civil service exams.
13. Handheld crossbow.
14. Fireworks (relating to gunpowder).
15. Hand grenade (also relating to gunpowder).
16. India ink.
17. Kite.
18. Land mine (gunpowder, again).
19. Pig iron.
20. Porcelain.
21. Stern rudder (on ships).
22. Steel.
23. Stirrup.
24. Tea.
25. Toilet paper.
26. Trebuchet catapult.

This is just a sampling, and these days they are moving right along with stuff like advanced bridge building, building the largest power-producing dam in the world, high-speed trains (they now have the biggest network in the world), and advanced military technologies. The USA used to be the world's largest steel producer. Not any more. Indeed, we are not even in second place, or even in third place:

1. China.
2. European Union.
3. Japan.
4. USA.

The biggest steel exporter is China, and the USA? Well we are number eleven. You do not get where they are by not being innovators.

In addition, the writings of Sun Tzu (who lived between the third and fifth centuries, BC) on the art of war are mandatory reading at all good military academies around the world. He was the world's first military innovator who wrote down his ideas.

So, while we all admit that the Chinese can produce good products in great products (sometimes) both in great quantity and at low prices, do not sell them short as innovators.

The USA now faces the stiffest economic (and possibly military) competition in its history, and is facing a country that for the first time in its history has a vastly larger population. (The Soviet Union was larger, but not vastly so.) Even in manned space exploration we are losing it, since the people being laid off at the Cape will disperse and it is unlikely that we will ever have a program that pulls them back together. It is likely that the first person to walk on Mars will be Chinese.

Howard Ferstler


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

The biggest mistake everyone makes on this forum is to believe a tool made yesterday in the USA will still be made tomorrow in the USA. Almost overnight, tool companies and any other company can switch their manufacturing base to another country. So quit trying to compare tools made a few years ago with those made today. It's like trying to compare grapes to kumquats. If you are lucky to find something made in the USA, grab it, because it will not be available tomorrow. BTW, most table grapes now come from Mexico.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

I have to agree 100% with Howard Ferstler. To think they don't know how to innovate is a big mistake. We have been resting on our past laurels when we were the greatest. We have lost everything by placing our love of profit ahead of everything else. I don't think it's reversible, but at the age of 76, I've lived through the best we had to offer and am declining along with the country. I fear for my grandkids. Thank GOD I won't be around to wittness the total downfall of my once beloved country.


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## ChuckM (May 12, 2008)

The statement that China is a copier is true today. We, by moving our production to China, actually legitimize them to copy. Did you know that Chinese business enterprises are willing to make only $0.01 for every dollar of profit we importers make or even less? They deem that as a price to learn. The best example is the iPAD2, Japan and the US pocket 90% of the profit from every unit sold. China which produces it, 5% and less. What gives? They want to learn how to make such hi tech commercial products.

Can China innovate one day? Of course. We in the West will be digging our own graves if we think China can only copy. Why do you think China will be different from Japan (which started out as a copier) in its advance? Let me tell you. When China has reached the the state of being a "Have" country vs us in the west declining into the "Have-not" countries, all kinds of talents will flow to the East, including the innovation talents and experts. Already, China has the most reliable record of sending stuff into the sky at the lowest costs.

If we continue to self inflict ourselves with wounds (look at Norway and the debt ceiling mess in the US), it's a matter of time that China, India and other developing countries that will have the last laugh. And the last laugh will come much soon than you and I can believe. Not 100 years as some experts thought 10 years ago, not even 50, perhaps-roughly half of the US debt is owned by foreign entities…given the rate the US is burning its money, how long do you think that % will be over 70%?

I know a lot of us in the West do not accept the notion that after ruling the world for long, it'll be anything but. This mentality will only blind us from realizing the world outside us. We get our info. from newspapers, TV, etc. about the world outside N.A., the third world people get their news and info. by visiting us and they still say they don't know not much about us. On the contrary, we think we know everything - including China will forever be a copier. China has official 5-year and 10-year development plans and they are renewed constantly. As far as I know, my country has no plans that are anything more than a year or two. Mr Ron fears for his grand kids, I fear for anyone who thinks China is a copier forever.


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## jerkylips (May 13, 2011)

FWIW, you could argue that the stuff being made in China right now IS innovative. They are changing & have changed the way people buy stuff, the way people think about "value". In my opinion, the difference isn't so much about China vs. USA, it's about new thinking vs. old thinking. People used to want to buy something that would last forever. Now, people want to buy something cheap, even if it means that it needs to be replaced more quickly. Is it our desire to want "something for nothing" (being able to buy the newest/best/etc., without going broke), or is it that the manufacturers have "trained" us to value newer over better? who knows.. The fact is, there is plenty of cheap crap made right here in the USA too, if we're being honest with ourselves..


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## GSwoodworker (May 22, 2009)

I hate to see china made products! But remember American companies are having products made over sea's. bring them to America and expect us Americans to buy them, sounds good right. Hey wait we can't afford any of these cheap china made products because we have no jobs. I feel we need to put total blame on the people in charge of these American companies who sold out millions of Americans. I am a machinist/tool and die maker and I see this every day, losing parts I have made for years because china will do it for .05 cheaper. And when the china boat is late on delivering that part I don't make anymore I have to drop everything and make the part. Now my blood preasure is up!

I am reading a good book called Remade in The USA, byTodd Lipscomb.

I still don't know what saw I would buy if I were alex1453


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## Alex1453 (Jul 20, 2011)

So far, there's at least one Hitachi that's made in the USA. It's the C18DL (Hitachi 18V 3.0Ah Lithium Ion 6.5 Circular Saw). Not only does the website say "Made in the USA," but I contacted their service department and they confirmed it. Still waiting on the info for the Hitachi C18DLP4, Hitachi C7BMR, and a few Skils. I'll update when I've got some more info.

As for the saw itself- and this is a general question- do you think a worm drive is worth the extra money?


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## DaddyZ (Jan 28, 2010)

I bet if you checked further into it, It would be 'Assembled in USA', my bet would be most (if not all) of the parts are made Elsewhere.


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## Alex1453 (Jul 20, 2011)

I get what you mean DaddyZ, but at least it means that someone somewhere in this country is at least doing something. As far as a new completely US-made power tool using only US-made parts, I realize this is practically an impossibility, but it's still means that, in one way or another, I'm sending a message and supporting a worker here.


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## armylogger (May 4, 2010)

I have a porter cable that I absolutley LOVE!!! It has powered through some of the toughest stuff I have ever seen. I even put a metal cutting blade on it from time to time to cut some pretty thick metal too. Once it some how got placed in a bucket and left outside while it came a down pour. Completly submerged in water and was there for probably 3 or 4 days before I found my saw. As you can imagine I was just slightly upset about that. I pulled it out a poured the water out of it then let it dry for about a week before attempting to plug it in. It still works just a hard as it did the day I got it! I wouldn't have believed it, but like I said earlier, I LOVE that saw!!!


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## Alex1453 (Jul 20, 2011)

Here's also some eBay responses:

Skil 5550-01 - "it says made in the USA on the box"

Skil HD5687M-01 - "call Skil and ask them"

Hitachi C7BMR - "Made in China"


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## PutnamEco (May 27, 2009)

If I remember correctly the Skil 5550-01 is* ASSEMBLED* in USA.

If your really determined to not buy Chinese, a lot of smaller independent mom and pop hardware stores have new old stock circular saws that have been sitting on the shelves for years, usually because they are priced significantly higher than what the big boxes sell them for.

If your searching among the likes of the Skil 5550-01 on Ebay, remember you'll be paying around $20 for shipping so unless you get it for less than $25 you might as well go to Walmart and pick up a new one.
Skil hasn't made a saw in America for a few years now, not since they where bought by Bosch.

Re:
do you think a worm drive is worth the extra money

Depends on what your going to do with it? Planning on Framing a house or gang cutting plywood? Worm drives spin the blade slower but with more torque, so they are more suited to cutting larger pieces of wood. I personally use sidewinders in the shop and for trim work and reserve my Skil saw for the heavy stuff.They are noticeably heavier than most sidewinders as well. So, yes they are worth the extra money if they suit the job you are doing.

Your best bet is going to be the Japanese manufactured Makita 5007 NB or if you must have American look into the older Porter-Cables like the 315-1 or 347. The Milwaukee I recommended previously the 6368 will be pricey and hard to find since people think highly of them.


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## Alex1453 (Jul 20, 2011)

I'm very happy to post that the search/quest for a circular saw that isn't "Made in China" is finally OVER. The winner for me is the Bosch 1678. It's a lovely worm drive, but with the comfort and useability of top handle. Thanks a lot for all your help guys! Now comes a blade…..but that's for another thread.


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## pierce85 (May 21, 2011)

Regarding China's supposed take over of the world, the only comment in this thread that comes close to getting it right is from GSwoodworker.

But it is true that US tax breaks for US corporations create jobs - just ask all the Chinese workers who are the "beneficiaries." They love that the American people continue to vote politicians into office who look after the interests of US multinationals. The "best" part of this whole farce is that those who bitch and moan the most about China are likely the same folks who vote for politicians who make sure that such self-destructive economic policies continue.

"No one in this world, so far as I know - and I have searched the record for years, and employed agents to help me - has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people." 
(H. L. Mencken, "Notes on Journalism," The Chicago Tribune, September 19, 1926)

Glad you found your saw, Alex1453.


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## SSMDad (Apr 17, 2011)

I'm in agreement with some of the others here. I have several Makita products and they've all been terrific (and not made in china)

Edit: (yep, Japan for mine too)


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## TheKingInYellow (Sep 25, 2008)

Makita here too. My 5007MG was made in Japan.


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## PutnamEco (May 27, 2009)

Interesting choice, two things I'm wondering though. Where was it made, and what was it that swayed you to purchase this saw?

Had an interesting job site "discussion" a while back about the Dewalt DW378GK and the 1678 along the lines of the debate over top handled verses barrel grip jig saws. I would think that this style of saw would be the worst style of saw to experience a kickback with although it may offer more control if you keep your weight over it. I also argued that since the rear handle is further off the blade axis on a standard style worm drive you would have more leverage to exert on "steering" the saw. When cutting on the floor or overhead this style would make a lot of sense, but up on horses at bench height this may be another matter.

Re: Japanese Makitas.
Makita has started to manufacture a lot of their tools in China these days. The 5007MGs in my local big box have a made in China sticker.


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## emart (Mar 16, 2011)

> Look on the bright side. At the rate we are going, we will be one of those third world countries that will be able to compete with China for jobs in the near future.
> 
> - crank49


That is already happening Ikea and some British companies already outsource to the US

My opinion is this: I dont so much mind that products are being made in china if they actually are easy to repair and get parts for but most of the chinese made tools I encounter are more work than they are worth to repair. The other problem is we wind up with items that have too loose of tolerances to make decent furniture(don't get me started on my craftsman sanding machine). I tend to cherry pick my tools from whatever era is the best quality for the money. My stationary machines are all 40+ years old but my planer is new as is my welding equipment.

If you want better quality than the poorly made junk that is flooding the market Makita is decent as well as Dewalt though I do not like that sears owns that tool line since it just reminds me of how awful new craftsman tools are now.


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## timbertailor (Jul 2, 2014)

Our government sold out to China decades ago.

Our willingness to buy cheap goods from China and abandon principles made it possible.

I remember when buying a Toyota or Honda was like owning a Hummer in the heart of London. Just was not politically correct.

But now, there is no such thing as an American car. All the parts are made in third world countries and if you are lucky, some of the models may actually get assembled here.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

I bought a well made product a short while back. Upon looking it over I found it was made in Vietnam! You never know these days.


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## mramseyISU (Mar 3, 2014)

For what it's worth I've driven past Makita's factory in Suzhou China. Bosch is around there too, lots of Germans with Bosch polo shirts running around the hotel I stay in over there.


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

Having lived in Shanghai for about 18 months a few years back, I can tell you that most products built by foreign companies inside China are built to the specs of the company that entered into a contract with Chinese workers. They run their own QC, source their own parts, since they have to eat all the issues at the consumer end.

In other words, if the US consumer is demanding a $45 dollar microwave inside all Walmarts, someone will step up and make a cheap Chinese microwave. If Bed, Bath and Beyond wants an upscale $200 microwave, again, someone will step up with a superior unit. Supply and demand still rules.

For instance, the Buick I drove in China, which was made right in Shanghai, had a 2.0 Liter fuel injected engine with a little turbo on it, and that car was terrific. Had an analog clock on the dashboard that actually was dependable and kept great time! Was built mainly for upscale Chinese families. They can build well when asked to.

Soooo,
If one Makita is made in the US, and the rest are made in China, that does not make all Makitas bad units, unless the engineers and QC people over there are told to make them cheaply or poorly.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

One wonders when China will start opening factories in the United States. It feels inevitable. The United States is ruled by politicians. China is ruled by economists.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

We stuck our head in the sand, our ass in the air, and said come and get it, China.
Probably the greatest enabler of this surrender was Walmart.

Nothing to do now. It's already been done.
Soon we will all be making trinkets for $0.30 per hour while the word turns to China for all their products.


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## mramseyISU (Mar 3, 2014)

Here's the thing with China I don't think people get. The government is ran like a business and everybody has to pull their weight. I don't think I'd even call it any more communist than any large corporation. You go over there you'll see people sweeping off the highway with push brooms because there are a billion people who need jobs and the government has to find something for all of them to do.


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