# For those of you with a Wynn Filter and some kind of separator/cyclone for your DC



## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

Why not just set up the DC exhaust outside and avoid the need for $200 filter?

I have my DC setup with a good ducting system, etc., but I'm concerned by Bill Pentz's warning that it's the dust I can't see that is the most dangerous. I wear a 3M 7500 series mask when using ROS and hand sanding, but certainly not when using every power tool.

I have a 1 micron bag and a dropbox separator-the separator catches the vast majority of my dust/chips. I've considered everything from a Clearvue CV1800 cyclone and Wynn filter ($650 total) on down.

The simplest idea seems to be to cut a 5" hole in my garage wall and exhaust the finer dust outside. I don't have AC at all and very little heat, and I have the garage door open 90% of the time I'm in the shop.

Since I have the separator, I won't be putting out that much dust. And since I'm sending the finer dust outside, I don't see the need to upgrade my separator/cyclone. This seems like the most effective and cheapest solution.

What am I overlooking?


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## timbertailor (Jul 2, 2014)

If you can get away with it, exhausting outside is definitely more cost effective.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I looked at your shop and it appears that you have done a good job of collecting dust at the source. If you vent the dust outside, are you creating a dust problem in an area which could cause you or others problems. The dust will probably coat everything in the area and if people walk through it will kick up a cloud of dust. Also, the wind could carry the dust everywhere.

The Clearvue cyclone has filters that are 99.999% efficient at 0.5 microns which is very good. It is a nice setup but takes up some space and is not cheap.

Do you collect dust at the ROS. I would think that a sander probably produces more small dust particles than any other tool and collecting dust at the sander would be important.

I collect dust the dust at my ROS sanders and it helps a lot. I have a DeWalt sander and a Festool sander and connect both to a HEPA vacuum.

Another question would be which filter are you using in your 3M respirator. If you are concerned with the dust, you should be using a N100 or P100 rated filter when sanding. These are rated at getting 99.7% of dust particles while the 95 only gets 95%.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

If I could exhaust outside, I'd do it in a heartbeat. It gets a little cold around here to do that, but if you've considered the heat/cooling impacts on your shop you haven't overlooked anything. Well, maybe one thing: if you shop is attached to the house and contains thing like the furnace or a gas water heater you might cause a backdraft in those appliances (not good).


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

I've said this before, if you are spending money to heat your shop, blowing heated air to the outside is expensive. If you don't heat your shop, then it is not a problem.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

Thanks, everyone. I do use my shopVac with ROS, but I'm probably going to be constructing a downdraft table to help even more and for hand sanding. I have the P100 filters for the mask.

Redoak49, you said, "The dust will probably coat everything in the area and if people walk through it will kick up a cloud of dust. Also, the wind could carry the dust everywhere." If this is the case, this is out. I live in the city. This is the kind of thing I'm trying to think through. Is this true? This would be ported out right next to my neighbor's back yard, separated by a tall wooden fence. I cannot create a dust issue for my neighbor. Everything I've read up to this point suggested that with a separator/cyclone, that the wind would disperse the little that was left.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

> Everything I ve read up to this point suggested that with a separator/cyclone, that the wind would disperse the little that was left.
> 
> - CharlesA


That is true if you have a separator. The only thing going out is the finest particles, and they are so small as to be dispersed by even the lightest of breezes. Any coating that might build up around the discharge point will be quickly washed off by rain. Be aware, the discharge point may have some noise. If your neighbors are close that may also be a problem.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

Noise: I've thought a bit about that. Since my shop is open when I'm using it, the noise is already pretty out there. Second, I checked with an iPhone db app-59 db inside the shop.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

Anybody with experience with the exhaust outside?


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## Case101 (Jun 29, 2013)

I too am interested in sending the output of the DC to the outside world. I have my HF DC located in the garage with piping into my shop in the basement. I did this so the fine dust would be in the garage and not in the shop. Not to mention the noise of the DC.

I have a window close enough to the DC that I could put some duct from the DC to the outside.

My question; what size duct would be recommended for the output of the DC to vent to the outside world?

I don't want to constrict the flow of the DC, also not having a filter on the DC should also make it more efficient if the duct is of adequate size.

Thanks,


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## timbertailor (Jul 2, 2014)

> I too am interested in sending the output of the DC to the outside world. I have my HF DC located in the garage with piping into my shop in the basement. I did this so the fine dust would be in the garage and not in the shop. Not to mention the noise of the DC.
> 
> I have a window close enough to the DC that I could put some duct from the DC to the outside.
> 
> ...


Try to keep the vacuum hoses the same size as the DC output. Usually 5" or 6". I know Wynn sells different size hoses. HF sells the 5" in a kit.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

actually, it just occurs to me that I could exhaust it out the back of the garage instead of the side, much further away from that neighbor.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

If you are not concerned by wasted energy of loosing conditioned air, or if you have "no air conditioner and little heat" then it is good economically speaking to just exhaust this air.

For what it's worth, if any industry tried to do this it would be the legal equilavent suicide. The EPA could and would shut you down in a heartbeat, fine the crap out of you and probably destroy your business forever. They can accuse, try, and convict you without setting foot in a court.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Just another thought.
Highway truck filters are the same rating as the advertised dust collector filters ([email protected]%) and much, much cheaper. You just need to find a physical size that will work for you.
This is my setup using them. It is a huge improvement over "the bag".


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

Charles would you be so kind as to let me see your out of the shop project ,with a few pic's perhaps.I have a dedicated dust extractor which I bought to use with my wood lathe but,it keeps clogging up as some of my woodchips are long and stringy. So to date it has lain unused till I figure it all out .I am currently thinking of a double container useing a rubber dust bin with a well fitting lid.But directly outside straight through the wall from the headstock/bed sounds even better, or is it ? Alistair


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

Paul, Which filter did you buy. Can one just pick them up easily?

Alistair, as soon as I have something to show, I'll post a pic.

Michael, I figure that actual running time of my DC is 1-2 hours a week. Most of the time it is on for 30 seconds at a time (TS cut, bandsaw cut, router, etc.). Are you suggesting that this may be the wrong thing to do, even though I am not subject to regs? I'm interested in any negative consequences of outside exhaust.


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## buildingmonkey (Mar 1, 2014)

I have a 2hp cyclone, and the filter used to have to be cleaned regularly, but I found I had a leak, took it apart and used silicone to seal it, then used silicone and furnace tape to seal every joint, and now I hardly get ANY dust in my filter. Seems these cyclones work amazingly well when they are well sealed. I could exhaust the air coming out of the cyclone and nobody would notice any dust.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

I actually don't remember exactly which one I got, part number wise. I just went in knowing the air moving capacity of my fan and the general size and the parts man walked me around the warehouse until we found something that worked. He was very nice about it. 
I think all these filters are about the same in quality. Truckers care because tiny particles can do expensive damage to Diesel engines, just like they can your lungs. Look for the terms "nano-fibre" , merv15, etc. I got filters that will pass about 150% of what my fan will push, no load. May sound like overkill but these things can only suck in as much air as they can blow out. More is better.
Read a kizerpea's blog too. You will have to innovate a little but it isn't hard and it is well worth it.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

I think I'm going to try it. Remove the motor from the stand and build a 30.5" stand for it to sit on. Cut a 5" hole in the back of the garage, and put a short piece of metal ducting through the hole, connected to the 5" hose coming from the motor. Attach some kind of 90° (pvc) to the duct outside. Considerably smaller footprint. I'll check from time to time to see how much is coming out.

Most expensive part of the endeavor will be the 5" hole saw.


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## Iguana (Jun 22, 2011)

> Anybody with experience with the exhaust outside?
> 
> - CharlesA


I have a ClearVue, and I've set it up so I can exhaust inside through filters, or outside without filters. The exhaust coming off the CV is just a T, with blast gates on either side. Open one, close the other to change which way it exhausts. Here's the setup without the inside filter hooked up:









It is getting about time to switch it from external to internal exhaust.

The blast gates aren't a perfect solution in that they are a bit leaky. Meaning that even when exhausting outside, some dust gets out and settles in the closet. Nothing I find particularly concerning.

I've had this setup for the last 6 months, and haven't had any appreciable buildup of dust outside. The exception to that was when I forgot to empty the bin and it started spewing everything outside.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

Mark. What kind of vent do you have setup on the outside wall?


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## ScottStewart (Jul 24, 2012)

I do not know if this is true, but I know I've read it somewhere

There is an issue somewhere that if the motor/impeller is pushing against less pressure than designed, the air movement can increase significantly and the amperage the motor is using increasing as well. I would either chech with someone that knows electrical better than I do, or check the amperage pulled when there is no back pressure.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

Scott,

I thought that involved not having the the intake connected to anything. I don't think it is related to resistance in the exhaust.


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## timbertailor (Jul 2, 2014)

> I have a 2hp cyclone, and the filter used to have to be cleaned regularly, but I found I had a leak, took it apart and used silicone to seal it, then used silicone and furnace tape to seal every joint, and now I hardly get ANY dust in my filter. Seems these cyclones work amazingly well when they are well sealed. I could exhaust the air coming out of the cyclone and nobody would notice any dust.
> 
> - buildingmonkey


I am also impressed with how little saw dust is making it to the canister filter. I was concerned I had not allowed enough space for it to collect. I should not have been concerned.


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## Iguana (Jun 22, 2011)

Charles, the external is just a standard 12" vent:










It's the big one, not the little one.

I'm a little concerned that the opening is a bit limited and may serve to constrict the cfm the cyclone can move. That being said, I haven't noticed any issues with the amount of dust being collected. A spring project will be to change the vent's hood to allow a freer flow.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

> Scott,
> 
> I thought that involved not having the the intake connected to anything. I don t think it is related to resistance in the exhaust.
> 
> - CharlesA


Bad assumption, Charles. Anything that can allow the blower to move more air will increase the amp load. Easily checked with an amp meter.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

Here's what I have for now. We'll see how it works.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

Using an iPhone app, I checked noise levels.

At my table saw, about 15 feet from the DC, 53 db (down 5 db from when filtered).

Outside the shop on the side, 50 db.

Directly beside the vent outside, 60 db.


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## Case101 (Jun 29, 2013)

I've been considering venting to the outside world


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## Case101 (Jun 29, 2013)

> Charles, the external is just a standard 12" vent:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What kind of dust accumulation do you have outside?

Thanks,


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

> Scott,
> 
> I thought that involved not having the the intake connected to anything. I don t think it is related to resistance in the exhaust.
> 
> - CharlesA


Resistance, measured in inches of water usually in the USA, is not just a sucking or blowing thing. A fan does not care if the resistance is coming or going, as long as it is within its design capacity.

Fans can be desiged as "non-overloading", but you won't find those fans on cheap collectors because they cost more and are not as efficient for energy consumption.

Also, I've not seen it mentioned here before, but cold air is heavier than hot air and takes more horsepower to move. So, a fan or system that is modified and has less resistance than it was designed for, might work well on a hot summer day, but burn up its motor on a cold winter day.


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