# Ridgid R4512 Table Saw. Is it normal for the fence to be loose like this?



## noone (Mar 6, 2012)

Brand new Ridgid R4512 Table Saw. Is it normal for the fence to be loose like this? I have already spent hours getting this thing calibrated. Blade is 90 square to the top, aligned perfectly with the miter slot. Miter gauge is spot on. This stinking fence is killing me! It seems that I have to be very aware of how I move it and how I clamp it down. I thought that this type of thing only happened on the cheap saws? Is the play in this fence normal? Also, the tape measure is no where near 0 when the fence is sitting on the blade. It's off by about at least a 1/2 inch! Do I have to call Ridgid for a new tape sticker???

Video-


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Does it lock down straight and tight,that's what counts. Did the tape measure come fixed on the rail or did you put it on?
Did you check the manual for adjustment on the fence?


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## Visions (Sep 12, 2011)

Yes, that's normal, at least on every entry level saw like that which I have seen. It's not a high-end fence, so that's pretty much what you get. When you push the handle down, it will tighten up and pull dead straight. Just get in the habit of moving it and then pushing the handle a bit to square. After a bit, it becomes second nature and you'll forget all about it.
Also, if you move the fence by the front end (where the handle is) and port of pull back while moving it, it will hold the fence square to the rails.
Just wax the rails well with some paraffin wax to keep it sliding easy, try the above mentioned "tricks" to deal with it, and you'll forget all about it in a week.

Mine has been like that since day one (Craftsman contractor saw), and it only has a little spring tab to hold it straight while moving it, and I have a knob I need to twist to lock mine, and it's still not bad. I have no issues really.

You may want to look inside the fence, some have a spring tab or another means of holding the fence a bit tighter when the handle isn't locked. You may have to adjust it in some way. Also, make sure you have it placed properly on the saw. I know you likely have done that, just making sure you think of the small stuff!

As for the tape measure, it's pretty common from what I gather. I've seen it posted in several reviews. You might have some play in the mounting holes for the rails and be able to gain some there, and the little windows do adjust, how much I have no idea.

Or, if it will make up for it in the proper direction, slap on a sacrificial fence. It's not a bad thing to have anyway. It'll keep your fence from ever being nicked or dinged up in any way. A piece of melamine with the edges sealed well will make for a good sacrificial fence, and with the T-track in yours, it'll be cake to install.

I do hope I'm wrong and there is a way to tighten your fence up. But after checking out the new Craftsman just like it that shared that trait, I think it may be just how it is.

Good luck, and nice saw!


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## jeffski1 (Nov 29, 2008)

i have the rigid 4512.the fence was time consuming for me.there are 4 allen bolts to adjust the fence square to the blade.i loosen those,adust my fence square,i hold the fence in place with some forward pressure towards the rear fence and also make sure the back of the fence does not move then i clamp down the fence,not all the way,just snug,then i tighten down the allen bolts.it took me several attempts to get this right.yes the fence kept moving on me initially but all is well now.the fence cuts very accurately.as far as the plastic zero indicator i too had problems with it.i had to elongate the holes on the indicator for more movement to zero out the fence,it worked well.when i move the fence for cuts i grab the fence itself and follow with my other hand at the handle to help guide the fence.it does glide rather smoothly though.oh i almost forgot,in the manual i think its mentioned how to adjust the rear of the fence if that is an issue.hope this helps keep us informed.Jeff


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## jeffski1 (Nov 29, 2008)

noone,
oops,i just saw your video.my fence does move like yours but not as much and i think the way i adjusted my fence as i described in my previuos post definitely helped.the main thing does your fence lock down square?.this is my first saw and being a beginner i spent a few nights out in my shop going through the adjustments and making practice cuts and along the way i had to adjust the fence several times.i had some frustrating moments and i thought i was going crazy but i got it worked out.hope this makes sense.Jeff


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

I had that saw for a week and had that kind of movement. Seemed no matter what I did, the fence was loose. Look at the far end of the fence (not the handle end). There is …. I think it was a nylock nut, and adjusting THAT tightened up the fence in the rails. It goes on the threaded rod that runs the length of the fence internally and adjusts the tension on the clamping mechanism. That pretty much fixed mine. I had to return it for other reasons, but I had the fence worked out pretty well..


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Have you made any adjustments to the fence? It'd be rare for a fence on any decent saw to come out of the back perfect adjusted and ready to use. The amount of slop in a fence is typically adjustable up to the point that the fence will no longer slide. Some slack is necessary in order to slide it down the rail, but as long as it doesn't rock when clamped down it shouldn't pose a problem.

The cursor is adjustable too, but I'm not sure it'll adjust 1/2"....if push comes to shove, you might need to relocate the tape.


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

I've got an old delta and you can't really tell what the fence setting should be till you lock it. Locking it binds it straight. The checking and adjusting are after it's locked. Not great but it works if you take the time.


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## noone (Mar 6, 2012)

I did try to adjust the nut on the back of the fence. When I tightened it a 1/4 turn, it was too tight and didn't slide well at all, so I put it back. I guess it pulls straight when you lock it down, at least I hope so. I have messed with this fence for a while now, I will need to check it again in the locked position. I probably shouldn't have ever messed with it. The blade alignment and miter gauge were spot on out of the box surprisingly.

I like that idea of using a piece of melamine against the fence. That should surely help out on the tape measure situation. How do I attach it to the fence?


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

I have a Ridgid 3650. From the video, it appears that even though the handles are different, it's the same fence as your. 
If it is, then you either need to tighten up on the tightness adjustment nut on the back end, or there is play in the rails.
I see you said you already tried adjusting the nut on the back a quarter turn. Did you try less than that. My fence once had play very similar to yours, and I had to adjust that nut, but it was very, very minute adjustment. Just a tiny bit will do you.
However, before doing anything, take the fence off and look under it to make sure there is nothing broken. It's not hard to check out. There is little in the way of high end technology. It's just a handle that acts like a fulcrum, attached to a long piece of rod with threads on the back end, and a nut that holds on a plastic piece that clamps the back rail.
Next, check to see exactly where the play is. Move the fence while watching everything closely. Is the fence moving on the rails? Or is the back rail moving along the table edge. Loose mounting bolts on the back rail would, I think, cause this same movement.


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

Ok, I just went back and watched the video again.
I think I understand it better now.
You're worrying about the play BEFORE you lock it down.
This is normal. The back clamping piece is made of a material that is supposed to slip along the back rail and pull itself square when you lock it down. Of course this works better in theory than it does in real life. Every Ridgid stock fence I've ever seen does the same thing, including mine.
I alway make a habit of pushing the front edge towards the back of the saw as I lock down the handle. This forced the fence square. It works most of the time. I check both the leading and trailing edge of my blade though if I'm trying to make an accurate cut.

For what it's worth, I now have a different saw with an Incra fence. Since getting it, I only use my Ridgid for my crosscut sled. I never realized the difference between stock fence systems and aftermarket like the Incra until I had one. 
I'm not at all saying everyone should rush out and get one. You can still cut accurately with what you got. The advantage of the Incra though is the convenience factor. You just move it and lock it.


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## noone (Mar 6, 2012)

Yes, that seems like the best course of action - manually pushing the front of the fence toward the back of the saw saw that it squares it up. I do notice that if I rock the fence left or right, when I lock it down, it won't square up just right, it will be cockeyed slightly toward whatever extreme I had it at. I guess I just need to be careful with how I lock it down. I will try to adjust the nut on the back 1/16 of an inch or so and see what happens just for kicks. I was hoping I wouldn't have to mess with the fence like this, but hey, I got the saw for $428 out the door, so I can't really complain. At least I solved the problem where I had the new diablo D1050 blade on BACKWARDS. I had the writing on the diablo blade facing the right side of the saw, just like the stock Ridgid blade, and after a few burnt cuts, I knew something was wrong….... 

More questions:

1. Can I use Mother's carnuba wax on the saw surfaces? It's the only 'non' silicone wax I have around the house currently.

2. What is the best way to attach some melamine to the fence?


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## noone (Mar 6, 2012)

Ok, so I see the track on the fence now which can be used to attach stuff to it…. DOH.

Should I use melamine or MDF?? Isn't MDF "flatter"?


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## SignWave (Feb 2, 2010)

The fence that came with the R4511 is a bit different, but it started with a fair amount of play like this one shows, and I was able to adjust some of it out. On the handle side, there are two nylon "screws" that adjust it side to side to adjust the angle. They also can be used to take the slack out a bit when adjusted together. This helped a bit, but the wiggle never really went away.

I also had the problem where if it was skewed before clamping down, it would not go quite straight. I got into the habit of clamping it 2 or 3 times (down/up/down/up/down/up) to get closer to straight. It kind of worked.

In the end, the 2 piece guide caused the most problems. I could never get it to stay 100% straight, so I'd get the fence lined up fine while close to the blade, but as I went to the right (past the split), it would be off. Even when I did get the guide rail relatively straight, a small bump would cause it to shift out of alignment.

Right now, I have the Incra TS-LS, which works quite well for me. I considered trying to tweak the existing fence, including getting a new single piece for the rail, but decided to go with the added features and repeatability of the Incra.

One other thing, if you attach something to the side of the fence, you'll need to compensate for the measurement guide. Starrett makes a tape that you can use (and they have left and right versions for each side). Either that, or you can make the face a standard width like 1 inch and just do the math each time.


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## noone (Mar 6, 2012)

Is the Incra fence plug and play? Easy to install?

The fence on this thing truly does blow. Everything SignWave said above is absolutely true. I struggled with true cuts all day. Sometimes it aligns right, sometimes not. I have a system now where I move it into place and cock it forward and to the right and then wiggle it slightly and then lock it down. Works ok but damn this fence sure wastes a lot of time.

Whats the next step up in table saws that has a good fence? If the cost of a table saw with a good fence is around the same as this Ridgid + a good fence, I may go that route and return this saw back to the Depot.


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## WinterSun (Apr 3, 2011)

You've got a pretty decent saw there, so I'd look at upgrading the fence rather than returning the saw. You can get into a Delta T2 for $150: http://www.tools-plus.com/delta-36-t30.html That's a solid Biesemeyer-type fence that is a frequent upgrade choice for older or lower-end saws that have subpar fences.


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## skywalker01 (May 19, 2009)

just a heads up to everyone. This is a cheap saw. It's an okay saw don't get me wrong, but all things considered it is a cheap saw. I only say because you mention in your post that this should only happen on cheap saws. Not entirely true, it just sounds like you're not exactly sure how to true it up. We can help with that as you see from all the posts. But a good saw that is truly adjustable and stays where you want it to is going to cost more than $600 dollars new…. which is the price range for these saws


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## kizerpea (Dec 2, 2011)

I have the ts2424 had no troubles at all…that is the first model with the ridged name. bought it at the home depot the first day they could sell it.


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## noone (Mar 6, 2012)

I may be willing to pay for the 'good' saw in the $600 range. Suggestions please?


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

Yes, that's normal, at least on every entry level saw like that which I have seen. It's not a high-end fence, so that's pretty much what you get. When you push the handle down, it will tighten up and pull dead straight. Just get in the habit of moving it and then p

I take exception to that. I have a 3650 that the fence is just as tight as the day I bought it and it's been dead on ever since.(over 7 years old)
I'll admit it's not on par with say a Bies but it does what it's supposed to.

Either something isn't put together correctly or Ridgid will give you a new fence.


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## mikema (Apr 27, 2011)

I second getting the T-2 fence. The thing with the $600 range is that puts you right in the range of an entry level contractor saw, like what you have. The fences on those are a slight step up from those you get on benchtop/jobsite saws. You may be able to find a used cabinet or hybrid saw on craigslist in that price range, but that may take some patience.

From reviews I have read, once you get your saw tuned up, its not a bad saw by any means. I bought a 1980's craftsman contractor saw, and put the T-2 fence on it, and it turned on old saw that was just okay into something that is good and fairly precise cutting machine.

Just be aware, that you will likely need to drill new holes in the cast iron in your TS to support the T-2 fence.


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## klw (Dec 9, 2011)

I'd have to go out and check, but I thought on my Ridged 3650 that there was a couple of nylon adjustment screws under the head of the fence that would take a bit of that play out it. Not to be used for squaring - that's the 4 bolts adjustment on top - I may be wrong on the nylon adjustment screws, as it's been a while.

As long as it clamps to the square it'll work for you.

The tape? Mine is close but never use it, I have a steel rule that lives on top of the fence for setting the cut range..


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## noone (Mar 6, 2012)

I fixed the tape measure issue by taking a small strip of blue painters tape, maybe a little over a 1/16" wide by a 1/4" tall and used that as my 0 mark. It's working great so far.

As for the fence issues, I am learning to work with it. I can usually get cuts over 40" that are either perfect or off by about 1/32" over that length. I don't know if that is considered bad or not.


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## jakep_82 (Feb 1, 2012)

I see people recommending the T2 fence and perhaps some of them haven't used it. I can wobble my fence all over until I lock the handle down. That's just the way the design works. Once the handle is locked it's square. What I see in the video is normal for that fence as well as a T2. As long as it's square when it's locked it doesn't matter.

Yes the T2 is nicer, but the fence on the R4512 isn't terrible either.


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## jakep_82 (Feb 1, 2012)

Also, the fence rail is mounted with a t-slot. All you need to do to fix the zero is loosen all the bolts and slide the entire rail left or right.


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

At least I solved the problem where I had the new diablo D1050 blade on BACKWARDS.

noone, you are probably the only one on here out of 40,000 that has ever done that ;-)


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## noone (Mar 6, 2012)

Yeah, I never should have admitted that!


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

Hah! Truth be known you are probably just one of the nearly 40k on here that has done that.(at least you admitted it)
Just think, as your skills grow ,15 years from now you can think about that and laugh while you're putting the darn thing on backwards again!
Have a good day!


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## hobby1 (Feb 10, 2012)

Hello,
I have the craftsman portable tablesaw, with the foldable stand, the fence system mine has is, the front rail, is a track built into the front of the saw, and the back rail is a lip that overhangs the back of the saw table, this lip catchs the back of the fence to keep it from lifting off, when tightened down.
However it has the same amount of play as yours was showing, before tightening, in fact mine can lift completely up and off when not tightened down, so I can place the fence on the table anywhere without needing to slide it from one side.

But I can get it to lock down nice and true, by doing these couple steps,when I'm rerady to lock it in position, I found that, if I push the front of the fence from both sides of the handle tight against the front saw table, using my right hand, that squares it up, then to make sure it locks tight I take my left hand, and place it ontop of the fence firmly pushing it down to the table, and then keeping the preasure downward I slide my hand to the back of the fence and then engage the handle to lock it down, it does lock down tight, and stays square in position.


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## noone (Mar 6, 2012)

I used a dial indicator to confirm my issues with this fence.

In my opinion, the 'wiggle' in this fence is definitely a problem. Depending on where the fence wiggle is when you lock it down, determines how parallel the fence is to the miter slots and blade.

Last night I used a dial indicator to test this theory. I locked down the fence multiple times, using the dial indicator in the miter slot to test how parallel the fence was to the miter slot. I could *never* get a consistent reading. The fence would be plus or minus 10 1000ths at any given try (+/- .010 inch).

For example, I would move the fence right and then left, lock it down, and then zero out the dial indicator at the end of the fence near the handle. Then I would slide the dial indicator in the miter slot, to the other end of the fence and take a reading. Sometimes it would be -.002 inch. Sometimes it would be +.010 inch. Sometimes it would be +.008 inch. Sometimes it would be -.009 inch. Etc…. I spent a few hours fighting this thing, trying to adjust the fence using the 4 screws on the front. These readings were the best I could get it adjusted to. This thing is just not accurately squared when locked down.

From what I have been hearing, this fence should lock down into the same position every time you crank the handle down. Clearly, this is not the case with my fence.

Do I need warranty service on this fence, or am I just expecting too much out of it?

Has anyone else used a dial indicator to align their 4512 stock fence?


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

Howie.
I've never put dado blades on backwards.
I once installed mine though and couldn't figure out why it was cutting so slow and rough. I figured the blades were getting dull and vowed to start thinking about buying a new set if I just got that job done.
I completed the job and was taking the dado set off when I figured out what the problem was. 
The cutting blades were on correctly. The chippers in between the blades were not.
You guess it. They were backwards.

I know now, dado blades will get the job done with chippers turned backwards. It works a lot better with them installed correctly though.
By the way, the dado set that I thought was time to replace (that happened about a year ago), I'm still using them today.


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## noone (Mar 6, 2012)

bumping to bring this back on topic.

I used a dial indicator to confirm my issues with this fence.

In my opinion, the 'wiggle' in this fence is definitely a problem. Depending on where the fence wiggle is when you lock it down, determines how parallel the fence is to the miter slots and blade.

Last night I used a dial indicator to test this theory. I locked down the fence multiple times, using the dial indicator in the miter slot to test how parallel the fence was to the miter slot. I could never get a consistent reading. The fence would be plus or minus .010/inch at any given try.

For example, I would move the fence right and then left, lock it down, and then zero out the dial indicator at the end of the fence near the handle. Then I would slide the dial indicator in the miter slot, to the other end of the fence and take a reading. Sometimes it would be -.002 inch. Sometimes it would be +.010 inch. Sometimes it would be +.008 inch. Sometimes it would be -.009 inch. Etc…. I spent a few hours fighting this thing, trying to adjust the fence using the 4 screws on the front. These readings were the best I could get it adjusted to. This thing is just not accurately squared when locked down.

From what I have been hearing, this fence should lock down into the same position every time you crank the handle down. Clearly, this is not the case with my fence.

Do I need warranty service on this fence, or am I just expecting too much out of it?

Has anyone else used a dial indicator to align their 4512 stock fence?


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

Before I start, I want to say that this is only my opinion. Others may completely disagree with me.

You're expecting too much out of this fence. If you study how this fence locks down, no more deviation than what you're stating is to be expected.
The fence rides on the front and back rails. Unless you tighten all adjustment down so much that it won't move even before locking it, there is going to be play between the two rails. Then when you flip down the handle, depending on whether you were pushing left or right, and how hard, you have deviation. I have a TS3650, and although they may look a little different, they have basically the same fence system, and this is my experience with mine.

To get more accurate results, I think you're going to be looking at aftermarket fences. I have an Incra fence on my other table saw, an antique Craftsman setup. I have never had problems with the Incra.
Now, I got the Incra second hand. So I can't speak for initial setup. From what I've seen in my manual though, it is not a plug and play deal like someone (you, I think) asked before. There is a setup process. I've heard some say there is a learning curve to the Incra. I don't see it as much a learning curve as I do getting used to a new style fence. 
The biggest problem I had with the Incra when I first started using it was locking it down. I would set it up where I wanted it, then instinctly reach down to the side of the fence closest to me feeling for a lockdown handle. There isn't one. You lock it down on the end of the table, at the carriage. This carriage system though is what makes the Incra so great. It extends a support towards the middle of the fence that keeps it in line. It is also infinitely micro-adjustable. I can adjust my Incra fence 1/100th of an inch left or right with confidence in the accuracy of it. Actually, I would go as far as saying that the only drawback to the Incra is its accuracy. It is so accurate, that I now get aggrevated when I can't get the same accuracy from some of my other tools.


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

If you'd like, you can go here. 
Scroll to the bottom of the page.
At the very bottom right of the page, you can download the manual for the Incra system I have if you'd like to look it over.

Another drawback to the Incra.
If you buy it and love it as much as me, let me know so I can tell you about my Incra 5000 sled.


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## noone (Mar 6, 2012)

Would the Delta T2 fence lock down accurately and repeatedly?

Am I really going to notice a performance issue with my stock R4512 fence skewed + or - .000 to .010 inch?

The reason I keep asking about the fence is because every time I cut a piece of wood, it always seems like the last 2 inches pinch at the end of the cut. In other words, the last two inches of a cut always seem to rub and don't feed out smoothly like the rest of my cut. I measured the blade alignment and it is skewed .008 of an inch, which I am in the process of straightening.


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

I do all my ripping on my Craftsman saw station.
I only use my Ridgid these days for corsscutting. 
It's a luxury I've got. Long story. There is a reason I bring this up though.

The Craftsman is known for the blade/arbor assembly, whatever you call it. The whole blade assembly is known for getting itself out of line continuously. Every time this happens, I get the same situation you describe. The "off" ratio will only be within a couple thousands of an inch, but it'll "drag" that last couple of inches as it passes the blade, and more readily cause kickback if you don't have a good grip on things. I have to readjust this saw about once a week. 
I guess what I'm saying is that I would get that blade alignment perfect before I even worried about the fence. From my experience, the blade misalignment will cause you more headache than the fence. I don't know why, it just does.

By the way, you mentioned before if anyone used a dial indicator for checking everything. 
I use a tool made by woodpecker on my saws. It works flawlessly and allows for easy setup.


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## noone (Mar 6, 2012)

I made my own mini sled pad for my Harbor Freight dial indicator that I bought for 12 bucks.

But that Woodpecker does look interesting though.


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

Have you got the manual for this saw?
I was wondering, my 3650 manual is at the shop right now, but is there any information in there about adjusting the fence?

In the end though, I just don't like the fence design that locks on two rails, front and back. As I stated before, it just (IMHO) is not accurate repeatedly. It sounds great in theory. If you moved the fence in the exact way, exact force, and such each time, then yes, one could set it up for accuracy. We're human though and any design that allows the fence to move out of line by moving it side to side is going to get locked down with at least a certain amount of side to side deviation in it.

I have actually studied the 3650 fence I have when I first got it because of the exact problem you're having. I think the theory is that the plastic piece that rides on the back rail is supposed to be slick enough to slide itself into line as you flip down the lock lever. It just doesn'y do that though. Oh, it's accurate enough that one would probably never notice it if they just measured it with a tape measure. If you try for any more accuracy than that though, it just doesn't work. You wind up with a fence set so that on each cut, depending on how it was locked down, either is kicked out further away from the blade in the rear, which is fine actually, or closer to the blade in the rear, which causes wood to burn because of being pinched, or worse, kickback. Neither way is acceptable though.
I never was happy with my 3650 fence the whole time I used it. As I said before, I only use that saw now with my Incra 5000 sled. For ripping, I have an Incra on a Craftsman saw. I got into the habit though of pushing the fence towards the back of the saw as I flipped down the lock. Who wants to do this though?


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## jwatson15 (Apr 5, 2013)

I realize this is an old thread but I just purchased this table saw and was looking for information about dialing it in and came across this thread. This is my first table saw and wanted to share how I got my fence lined up in in case it may help someone else. First off my fence seemed to have a lot of play like the OP stated… I took most of the play out by removing the top screw on the end of the fence that does NOT have the handle… this allows you to remove the plastic end cap and exposes the 13mm nut that allows you to tighten the fence to the rail. After tightening it as much as I could while still allowing the fence to slide side to side I replaced the cap… I used my carpenters square (triangle) to align the back of the fence with one of the mitre slots with the fence locked (as even though it has play it seems to self align when you lock the fence). While locked I clamped that end to the table… I loosened the four hex nuts on the end of the fence with the handle. I unlocked the fence by lifting the handle and used my triangle to line that end up perfectly… locked the fence again, I snuggled all the hex nuts evenly… then went back over tightened them down and voila… my fence is perfectly aligned with my mitre slot!


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