# Help with a Dust Collector for my New Shop



## empty5853 (Oct 6, 2009)

Hello,
I'm kind of new to posting here but have enjoyed reading all the great information (especially the reviews). I've just finished my workshop and need some advice on dust collection.

I already have a JDS Air-Tech HP High Efficiency Air Filtration Unit for the air but need actually dust collection at the machines. I have the typical woodworking equipment i.e. TS, Jointer, Planer, RAS, etc. My plan is not to pipe to each machine. I'm a amateur woodworker and retired so if it takes longer and is a little inconvenient to switch the hose to each machine, no big deal. I've read so much information on dust collectors my brain is numb. I'd like to get a cyclone system but they're out of my price range. My thoughts are a single stage unit with a cyclone /trashcan setup. As with all of us. I need to balance cost vs. best unit for my application vs. quality of the unit vs. value. Also, I'm not a "tool snob" (No disrespect intended). I own or have owned JET, DELTA, GRIZZLEY, DEWALT, CRAFTSMAN and many others. I've had pretty good luck with all of them. Also. It can use 110v or 220v. I have both available.

Here are some of my thoughts/likes on what I had in mind.

*PENN STATE 2 HP DC2000B Dust Collector with 1 Micron Bags.* 
• Good reviews
• Nice price
• 1 micron bag is standard
• Would still need to get a cyclone/trashcan setup

*HF 2 HP Industrial 5 Micron Dust Collector*• Some good reviews
• Great price
• 5 micron bag is standard
• Would still need to get a cyclone/trashcan setup

*Grizzly G1029Z2P 2 HP Dust Collector with Aluminum Impeller *• Some good reviews
• Upper range of my price point
•2.5 micron bag is standard
• Would still need to get a cyclone/trashcan setup

*DELTA 50-760 1.5HP 1,200 CFM Vertical Bag Dust Collector *
• good reviews
• Upper range of my price point
• 1 micron bag is standard
• Would still need to get a cyclone/trashcan setup

*OPTION: a Shop Vacuum with a Dust Right Separator ( my concern is would it handle the bigger chips from the planer and jointer)*

I'm sure there are many more but you get the idea. I don't mind spend a little more if it's worth it because of quality such as a Delta or JET unit. I'm leaning towards the Penn State one though. I like the 1 micron bag it comes with. I don't really know if there's a big difference between a 1 micron and a 2.5 micron bag but figured it made sense to start with the smallest bag I can get.

I'd appreciate any advise, comments or suggestions. I know most of you have probably been down this road already so you have a lot of good experience.

Thanks for your time.

Vr
Mark T.


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## MR_Cole (Jun 1, 2012)

I would strongly suggest the HF collector for $150 and then add a Wynn filter for $110 and then put a wok in your dust collector. Then, add the dust right system from rockler for around $40 and you have your entire setup with a 1 micron canister filter for $300.


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## CL810 (Mar 21, 2010)

I went the HF route and have been happy. The only thing I would do differently is get a full sized drum; it's amazing how fast it fills up when run the planer.


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## DIYaholic (Jan 28, 2011)

Yep, Harbor freight 2HP DC, Wynn Environmental Canister filter and a pre-sperator (Dust Deputy or Thein Top Hat), is the way to go, IMHO.

I say a pre-seperator for two reasons (not to insult Cole);
1) Saves your impeller from undue wear and tear, from large pieces of debris being suck into the system.
2) Saves large debris (tape measurers & what not) from the impellers after being sucked into the system.

You get kudos, for already having an ambient air filter!!!
BTW: What is the micron rating for it?
I also highly recommend the Wynn NANO filter. That may be a selfish desire to protect my lungs though!!! Lol.


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## History (Dec 22, 2012)

The Delta 50-760 without a doubt.


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## SamuraiSaw (Jan 8, 2013)

+1 on DIY's advice. It's the best you've gotten so far!


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## MattinCincy (Oct 7, 2009)

Here's my Delta 50-760 with a few modifications. After building a Thein separator I no longer needed the collection bag below my Wynn filter (virtually EVERYTHING gets caught by the Thein)so I replaced it with an easily removable 1/4" thick mdf cover to save space and make it easy to access the inside of the filter for the occasional cleaning. I hung the entire unit from the floor joists in my basement to save floor space, and devised a way to suspend the separator using a couple of ropes and hooks when I need to empty the trash can. This setup works great for me.


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## Tennwood (Sep 9, 2009)

I have used the Penn State with the 1 micron canister for about 4 years and have been satisfied with it. I have the garbage can with a cyclone lid from Woodcraft that gets most of the chips, larger size dust and the big stuff before it gets to the DC, as long as I remember to empty it before it gets above half full. Otherwise it starts sucking up the chips from the can. My only issues with it are:
The bags are a pain to replace with the way they have the vertical supports bolted in just above where the bag straps on. The impeller or motor is starting to squeak a little now, but that may be because a few to many chunks have gotten sucked through it. The filter does not clean real well with the internal paddles and as the efficiency goes down I have to take it outside and knock all the dust out (I usually do this when I have to empty the bag). 
If I were to replace it with a similar style and wanted to spend the money, I would look at the Jet Vortex. From what I seen and read, it keeps the filter a lot cleaner.
Good luck.


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## SamuraiSaw (Jan 8, 2013)

Matt,

How do you know the can is full and needs to be emptied? I have a Thein seperator, but left the clear plastic bag in place. If the can fills up while I'm working I will see stuff swirling in the bag and it prompts me to empty the can. What keeps debris from the pleated filter if the can fills up?


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## JesseTutt (Aug 15, 2012)

another +1 on DIY's advice. It's the best you've gotten so far!


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## History (Dec 22, 2012)

Not only is it poor advice, it is a poor investment. People that buy a Harbor Freight 2 HP DC are buying them for the sole reason that it's the cheapest.


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## Tomthumb (Feb 1, 2013)

I would check penn state reviews I have seen are good.


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## DIYaholic (Jan 28, 2011)

Saw Sucker,
You are entitled to have and freely express *YOUR OPINION*!!!
There ARE cheaper/less expensive DCs than the HF, so please explain, to us uninformed, *Why is the HF 2HP DC bad advice?*


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## History (Dec 22, 2012)

Really DIY ? There are cheaper new 2 hp DC's out there ? Name a few. I shouldn't have to explain to anyone why anything HF is a bad investment. It's rediculous.


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## MattinCincy (Oct 7, 2009)

Sam,

I keep a close eye on my trash can, and try to never let it get more than 2/3 full - I noticed a drop in performance if it gets too full. I plan to put a clear viewing window in my can some day, but haven't gotten around to it yet.


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## doyoulikegumwood (Jun 21, 2007)

will i see some ruffled feather but I'm going to agree with DIY 1st lets call these things what they are chip collectors .
2nd with the afore mentioned modes I can run my whole shop with my fracken sucker from HF at around 1400CFM @around a 300 doller investment.

3rd thing. My 350 doller 1.5 horse delta has a hard time keeping up with one machine at a time if a wheel it around from machine to machine and I most certainly am not going cut up and screw up a 350 doller piece of machinery.

Nuff siad


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## SamuraiSaw (Jan 8, 2013)

Thanks Matt. I have the good fortune of more space, so I am able to keep the lower clear bag. Invariably the can fills up in the middle of a planer run. My habit is to glance at the lower bag from time to time and if I see chips swirling I shut down when convenient and empty the can. I went from 2-3 bags a week to 1 every couple of months.

*"It's rediculous"*

Then why bother? You obviously feel we are all less intelligent and unworthy of your "wisdom", why then do you feel the need to stir the pot?


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## History (Dec 22, 2012)

Gumwood, thats a highly unlikely story.


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## DIYaholic (Jan 28, 2011)

*SawSucker,*
1) I said cheaper/less expensive DCs, I didn't say they were 2HP, new, old, or comparable. (You said the HF was purchased "for the sole reason that it's the cheapest") Cheaper DCs CAN be had, just search CraigsList until a better price shows up!!!

2) I asked you to explain "Why is the 2HP HF DC bad advice?". You have not answered that question!

3) IF a HF DC is a bad investment, wouldn't that be part of the bad advice?


> *Why is the 2HP HF DC a bad investment*


*?*

What IS *ridiculous*, is the blanket statement; _".....anything HF is a bad investment." Yes, some HF stuff sucks & none of it does anything to help the USA Manufacturing industry, but many items represent a value to people, so what/whose investment interests are you talking about???

*doyoulikegumwood,*
You are correct, the 2HP DCs (any brand) are "chip collectors". They simply don't move the volume of air needed for picking up the fines at the source. That is why ambient air cleaners, respirators are still required!!!

*empty5853,*
Sorry if this post hijacks your thread, but the answers should/could pertain to the discussion!!!


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## empty5853 (Oct 6, 2009)

*DIYaholic* - According to JDS it does 99% of particles as small as five microns and 91% of particles as small as one micron in size.

Thanks all for taking the time to answer. There's lots of good information here and enough to make a decision on.

Take care and thanks.

Vr
Mark T.


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

empty5853,
I have a similar setup to what I think you are looking for. I have the Delta 50-760 and a Jet "air cleaner". I have a shop that is on "wheels". So permenant drops are not in my future, so I use the Rockler quick connect system. It works great. I hook up both hoses to the machines I am using the most that day, and move them if needed.

Do I wish I had a ducted system? Yes, very much so, but this works fine, I am pretty happy with it.
Mike


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## SamuraiSaw (Jan 8, 2013)

I've got the Rockler versionambient air filter and love it. I originally ordered the Jet, but amazon and UPS managed to pretty well destroy 3 of them before I gave up. I think all of them are an excellent addition to an overall dust reduction/collection system.


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## DIYaholic (Jan 28, 2011)

empty5853,
Or can I call you Mark…..

It is the sub micron (smaller than 1 micron) particles that are the most hazardous. If there is an upgraded filter that has better filtration, your lungs would thank you!!!

Enjoy your work shop. Good luck in your dust wrangling!!! Please post pictures of your setup, once installed. We luv to see what others are doing!!!


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

Please stop the childish nonsense !you said this !I said that ,is for the kindergarten c'mon keep this site real and as it used or should be .I am getting sick of the children and little boy behaviour sometimes we get more of than we deserve these days. my 2 cents. Alistair


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I wanted to weigh on here, hopefully I won't get Sawsucker any more worked up…

There are literally hundreds of good reviews for the HF collector on the internet. Dozens of Lumber Jocks have them and love them. I own two of them. I also own a Clear Vue cyclone and there's a Jet in my dad's shop.

HF is a little lower quality, smaller impeller, their motor rating is way high (its more like 1.6HP than 2 HP)- but for about $150 on sale, it is absolutely, without a doubt worth the money. Anyone who says differently has either never owned one, or they got a dud (which happens with HF stuff sometimes).

*BUT*- the HF collector, as well as the Jet, Delta, Grizley- in fact, any consumer single stage collector is a "CHIP COLLECTOR". If you want to keep the shop cleaner, I would not hesitate on buying any of them. But if you want to get the fine dust for health reasons (if you buy into that), you need something a lot bigger.

*The bottom line is this*- for the weekend woodworker, the HF collector is the best deal around. For a professional, go with a Clear Vue.

We've been doing a series of episodes on dust collection- including modifying a HF collector and making a wooden cyclone. You might enjoy watching.


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

Empty5853…
I forgot to mention, if you buy some replacement clear bags for the collection, be sure to buy the Jet 20" replacements.
The Deltas are about 25.00 for 2, Jet's are 25.00 for 5
Mike


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

I find that if I suck all my air through a cigarette, I get less sawdfust in my lungs and can breathe better. They are like small, portable dust filters and mine are reasonable. They cost a little over three bucks a pack.


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## kdc68 (Mar 2, 2012)

*empty5853*- Here's a couple of links that may help with your layout

Check the reviews here at LJ's for the Harbor Freight collector. Most people think it's a good deal

http://www.billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/DCBasics.cfm
http://www.airhand.com/designing.aspx#size


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## SamuraiSaw (Jan 8, 2013)

*"I get less sawdfust "*

ROFL….................

You must be smokin' those imported cigarettes. Try something made in the USA, that'll make 
Sawsucker happier anyway!


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

Yea, sawdust sounds like sawfust through that smoker's cough.
That or I'm not great at typing. 
Either way, I'm blaming it on the cough.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Good one, William… I considered making a suit out of furnace filter material. But it's a little itchy.


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## kdc68 (Mar 2, 2012)

*William*...you might try changing the cartridges in that respirator…lol


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

Those aren't filters in there Kd. I have a layered approach to nicotine patches built up in there. 
If you mess with those I get kind of irritable.

Stumpy, latex. You have to line the furnace asbestos with latex.
Then you can sell it to car drivers as a fire retardent suit with style,
And to certain "specialty" shops that specialize in other latex items that I cannot mention on a family friendly site.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

It's not nice to call people retardant.


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

It's not nice to make fun of retards either, but I do it anyway.

Have you ever heard one retard calling another retard a retard?
*YOU DAAAAAA RENARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

Now yell that in your best "*RENARD*" impression and tell me that aint funny.
If you say no, you either,
A. have never seen a retard call another retard a retard.
B. Have no sense of humor none whatsoever,
or…...........
C. Are lying through your teeth. You spewed coffee all over your screen laughing but don't want to tell anyone in fear that you'll seem like an offensive ass.


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## Alexandre (May 26, 2012)

William, I don't drink coffee at night.. I can't sleep..


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## greasemonkeyredneck (Aug 14, 2010)

What does coffee have to do with it?
It's what your body is used to. 
I finish off a pot of coffee just before I go to bed and I sleep fine.
I get your point though.
So tea, or milk, or coke, or koolaid. It doesn't matter. I still think it's funny.

Ok, I'll stop.
It really isn't nice to talk about the mentally challenged.
I'm just trying to lighten the mood of this thread a little.
Maybe it worked.
Maybe not.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

I am a weekend woodowrker and I went with the Clear Vue. I am actually a retiree but I had the money to do that. a1Jim is a professional woodworker and he has 3 of the HF collectors. I am not sure there is anything wrong with the HF unit as long as the motor runs. I have read of one person on here that had a motot die in just seconds. HF will make thet good ordinarily. A collector is simply a big vacuum cleaner. If it runs and does its job then ….nuf said. I think blanket statements are out of line. I don't care what we are talking about. One size seldom fits all.


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## ruel24 (Feb 14, 2012)

First of all, is there any information out there on a Thien seperator vs. something like a Dust Deputy? I'd like to know how good the Thien holds up.

After reading this: http://woodgears.ca/dust/dylos.html, i question whether Bill Pentz is just an alarmist with no hard facts based in reality. Are people overbuilding their dust collection systems based on paranoia?


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## realcowtown_eric (Feb 4, 2013)

I used to have a 2 hp dubble bag in the shop, but a site work project needed a little dust collector, so I picked up a hunnerd buck single bagger unit for that. Cripes, it sucked way better!

I can't stand the whine of shop vacs, but I do use em on belt and ROS sanders. On site and in the shop

I eventually pawned off my two bagger to someone who thought it looked good I guess. The single bagger is now mounted on the side of the Ts, and I've got various hoses to connect to other machines. Some work good (planer) others not so good (bandsaw. chopsaw)

But I run two air constant run cleaners all the time, and when things are getting dusty, I turn on the "smoke eater"- a welders unit with a 35 lb collection plaste assembly.

I am always suprized come cleaning time as to how much fine dust these various cleaners hold.

One thing I do know is that any corrugated hose drops air flow drasticlly, and I think it depends on the drive impeller.

For instance, I put a reducer on the 1hp dust collector and hook it up to a 25' hose to a ROS, and ya, it sucks, but hook up the same hose to a shop vac annd it sucks way better! on the ROS.

Do the same switcheroo on the band saw, and the shop vac don't faiir so well. The 1hp works better.

Methinks impeller design has to be the answer to the discrepancy. Some impellers can work better drawing a vacuum, but maybe not so good to move massive volumes of air, while others can move massive amounts of air, but in the "drawing a vacuum situation don't do so good.

BTW I saw the autopsy photogaraphs from Mt St. Helens victims. The really fine particles had gone through the nose hairs, gone through the lungs and just turned into cementaceous paste in the arteries. Fine dust can and does kill ya.

And with the sawmill explosions of late, the combustible dust (aka "comdust") sits on uncleaned surfaces (trusses and other uncleaned ares etc) and when there is a little explosion, it knocks all that loose and suddenly there is a big dust explosion. Clearly a safety hazard, particularly with open flame heaters.

Botttom line is that I don't think there is one solution to dust control. but it's gotta be done.

Eric in Calgary


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## History (Dec 22, 2012)

*I question whether Bill Pentz is just an alarmist with no hard facts based in reality.* I'd have to agree.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

Your life. Do what you want and tell your family what you are doing. Don't wear hearing protection either…or safety glasses. IS that what you are suggesting?


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## ruel24 (Feb 14, 2012)

Don't be silly. But when doctors say that because wood chips are water soluable and a natural fiber, therefore they pose no harm to our respiratory system, I listen. When a woodworker claims it does, I tend to have doubts.

When I went through OSHA training at work, the problems they outlined about Asbestos is that it's a SYNTHETIC fiber with barbs that prevent the body from removing. That's why it's so dangerous. They're looking into fiberglass, now. However, wood is a natural fiber that the body can sweep away, Your body has a natural mechanism for dealing with foriegn substances and getting rid of them.

Did you even read that article I resposted from another thread? Did you even see how low the particle count was in the air with just an el cheapo bag type dust collector? Did you read the doctors responses as to the health problems associated from breathing wood dust? Personally, this article made a lot of sense to me.


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## ruel24 (Feb 14, 2012)

realcowtown_eric, the Mt. St. Helens thing is a different beast. Volcanic ash, when mixed with water, makes a concrete, which is what is going to happen in your lungs when mucus tries to handle it.. And, then, there is the fact of just how much they inhaled at once. It was probably a monumnetal amount. Third, don't know for sure, but volcanic ash may contain silica, which is known to be very bad for your lungs.

Not all dust is bad for your lungs. Only certain types have been found to be cancer causing or have long term consequences.


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## BTimmons (Aug 6, 2011)

I'm skeptical of the attitude that wood fibers and dust aren't dangerous since they're natural, as compared to synthetics like asbestos.

Just because something is natural, it doesn't follow that it is therefore benign. Anthrax, botulism, flesh eating bacteria, and the bubonic plague are all natural, too. Of course, wood dust isn't exactly the Black Death, but I don't think it's harmless to be breathing in, either.


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## ChuckC (May 13, 2010)

I'm just a hobbyist in a garage but the HF/Thein combo has worked great for me.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*ruel24*- I'm a fan of Mathias. I also have spoken at length with Bill Pentz while we were doing our show on dust colelction. Both make compelling arguments, though Bill gives a lot more data in support of his side.

For every guy who says it isn't dangerous, there's one who says it is. For every doctor who says it's fine because it's natural, there's one who says it isn't. I don't know which is true.

I do know that you can soak your sawdust all day long and it won't dissolve. I also know that you can dig a hole in the ground at any 100 old sawmill site and find loads of sawdust still as fresh as the day it was left. If a hundred years in the wet ground doesn't dissolve it, how will my lungs?

Bottom line for me is this: It may be bad for you, or it may not be. I'm not going to mortgage my house to spend a fortune on dust collection. But I'm going to have the best I can afford because I don't want to find out when I'm 60 that the naysayers were wrong and I have cancer- no matter how small the chance.

I also think the time you spend in the shop is a BIG factor. A weekend woodworker will breath a lot less dust than a professional. Everybody has to learn the facts, look at their own situation and budget, and do what makes sense for them. As in all things, balance is important.


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## ruel24 (Feb 14, 2012)

Okay, all this got me thinking there has to be more information out there. This is what I found:

"Cancers have been associated with wood dust exposure. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) considers both hardwood and softwood dust to be potentially carcinogenic to humans. The three types of cancers associated with wood dust exposure are nasal and sinus cavity cancer, lung and other cancers, and Hodgkin's disease. The wood and cancer relationship was studied by Milham (1974), who conducted a mortality study involving the AFL-CIO United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America. This study supports the hypothesis that wood contains carcinogenic agents. The cancer mortality patterns found were:

Excess lung cancer in acoustical tile applicators and insulators.
Excess gastrointestinal cancer in pile drivers.
Excess leukemia lymphoma group cancers in millwrights, mill workers, and lumber and sawmill workers.
Excess lung and stomach cancer in construction workers with the greater excesses found in workers in major urban areas.

Hodgkin's disease has also been associated with wood dust. One study (Milham & Hesser, 1967), which examined 1,549 white males terminally ill with this disease, showed an association between Hodgkin's disease and wood dust exposure. Another study (Spiers, 1969) concluded that men working in wood industries in the eastern United States were at special risk for the disease, due principally to the carcinogenicity of pollen grains from eastern pine species.

Western Red Cedar occupies a particular place in hazard awareness because it contains the irritant chemical plicatic acid. Plicatic acid is most concentrated in western red cedar, but it is also found in significant quantities in eastern white cedar and japanese cedar. Plicatic acid is believed to be the causative agent in western red cedar dust-induced asthma and affects between 4 and 13.5% of exposed populations (Chan-Yeung, 1994)."

It goes on to say that,

" The American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) has assigned wood dust, all soft and hardwoods except western red cedar, a threshold limit value (TLV) of 1 mg/m3 for certain hardwoods, such as beech and oak, and 5 mg/m3 for soft wood, as TWAs for a normal 8-hour workday and a 40-hour workweek and a short-term exposure limit (STEL) of 10 mg/m3 for soft wood, for periods not to exceed 15 minutes. Exposures at the STEL concentration should not be repeated more than four times a day and should be separated by intervals of at least 60 minutes [ACGIH 1994, p. 36].

The ACGIH has assigned western red cedar dust a TLV of 0.5 mg/m3 because of its suspected involvement as an asthmatic trigger and sensitizer [ACGIH 2004]"

Source: http://ohioline.osu.edu/aex-fact/0595_1.html

So, I'll take back what I said. It appears, on further research, that it is pretty bad for you. Still not sure that everyone needs a massive cyclone to avoid getting cancer, though.


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## MattinCincy (Oct 7, 2009)

My dad was a lifelong woodworker and he and I built many structures on our farm from old cedar telephone poles that we had sawn into lumber. Our shop had NO dust collection whatsoever, and it was commonplace for us to work in a cloud of cedar dust for extended periods of time. He's now in his 80's and a few years ago was diagnosed with a rare form of sinus cancer. Luckily, after months of treatment and a monumental struggle just to maintain the will to beat it, he finally did, and has been cancer free since. The doctors had no explanation for the cause other than the years of exposure to airborne dust as a result of his woodworking. There's no way to prove one way or the other, but I'm going to err on the side of overcompensation when it comes to my shop.

Everyone has different levels of risk tolerance, and when you're younger you tend to feel like you're invincible - I know I did. Now that I'm pushing 50, my feelings about my body and health have changed, and most assuredly for the better. I want to live a long and healthy life and I'll do whatever I can to make that happen.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*MattinCincy*- My point exactly! Err on the side of caution.

My great grandfather died of lung cancer. My grandfather died of lung cancer. Neither were woodworkers, but the point I am making is that I've seen how people die from lung cancer up close and personal. (I was present when they both died) It's not a great way to go. So I am going to do whatever I can to avoid it. I don't smoke, I don't snort asbestos and I use the best dust collection I can afford… just in case.

*BUT*- Good dust collection doesn't have to bankrupt you. A good resperator can cost very little and that's the best protection you can get. If you don't spend hours every day in the shop, that's a great solution. Or, for those who don't want those things strapped to their faces, they make face shields that blow a small amount of fresh air across your face, keeping the dust away. They cost $200-400- expensive, but a lot cheaper than a proper dust colelction system. Combining one of these options with a shop vac or single stage collector to keep the chips cleaned up is a good way to go.

*Remember*, I am talking about guys who spend a lot of time in their shops. If you spend a couple weekends a month in there, your risk may not be as high. You can reduce your exposure even more by learning to use hand planes and card scrapers instead of power sanders.


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## mbs (May 8, 2010)

DavidNJ has done A LOT of research and analysis on dust collection. You may want to ping him to see what he selected. He has a fairly long post on DC too which is informative.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Impeller size has more impact on air flow than HP. Most of the better units have a 12" to 13" impeller. The HF is affordable, and may be enough, but it does have a much smaller impeller, and therefore less airflow.

IIRC, this is a 12" Jet impeller on the left (might even be 13"), HF 10-3/4" impeller on right:


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

If I remember correctly (that might be questioned) I think the lungs are built in such a way to push things up and out of them as you breath. We get in trouble when we breath particles that are too small to cling on and work their way out of the lungs. I would like to go back and reread this but I can't remember where I read it. I think it was in a govt article about breathing in silica. I used to work for an oil well cementing company. I didn't work where I was exposed to the dust from cement but this information was out there for all to read and might have been required reading. 
This is also why everyone preaches getting the fines out of the air. It seems that when we have things in our bodies that don't belong there we encourage all kinds of bad things to happen. It might affect one person and not the next. Do you want to risk being that person? That is the question you have to ask yourself. Do I want to be a statistic. I, for one, believe Bill Pentz just might be on to something and I would rather have a dust collector system than a Sawstop saw. I MIGHT cut my finger but I WILL breath dust. Do you want to teach your grandchildren your hobby in a room full of dust. It seems that children are more vulnerable to bad things than adults.


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## gawthrrw (Sep 13, 2011)

I have the Penn State Dust collector you are talking about and I love it. I believe to save money though you could go get the Harbor freight( which is exactly the same as the Penn State) and just upgrade from the 5 micron bag to the 1 micron from Penn state. The only difference is the bag on the top of the Penn state is a little taller than on the Harbor freight. Easy fix though.


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

The latest FWW has a direct comparison of a Super Dust Deputy with a Thein baffle (and the base case of a bare 1.5HP DC). The Thein does very well compared to the SDD, but has more variation. You need to clean the filter more than with the SDD, but you get more airflow.


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## DIYaholic (Jan 28, 2011)

brtech,
That is interesting. I think I'd go for the air flow, with a Thein & clean the filter a little more!!!


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

This has been a very informative thread. I too am considering a dust collector upgrade over my current shop vac/Dust Deputy setup.

While perusing the internet I discovered that the HF 2 HP model shares the exact same parts description and exploded parts diagram as the Rikon 2 HP model. Hmmm. The Rikon doesn't sound like a cheep model at $400 for an exact duplicate of the HF model.

Since I am not a production shop money making pro, I am seriously considering the HF model and upgrade either the bag or sub it out for a canister.


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## kdc68 (Mar 2, 2012)

*MT_Stringer*...Imagine that eh….The HF gets good reviews and you can upgrade like *Bert* (aka *b2rtch*) did with his. Looks like a great set up.

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/32589


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