# For those with crosscut sled experience...



## Razorburne (Jul 7, 2014)

I am planning on building my very first crosscut sled for my new (and first and only) table saw - the miter gauge that came with the saw is crap and it seems to me that adding an auxiliary fence to it would simply make it a piece of crap with wood screwed to it (not much of an improvement).

For those who have built their own, do you feel it is pretty much necessary to test the squareness with the 5 cut test after it is built, or do you think that it will be close enough without the extra testing? I guess I am aware of how the 5 cut test can add to fine tuning the sled but not sure if you feel it significantly improves the sled or whether it is a matter of splitting hairs at that point? The sled built carefully will improve accuracy of cuts leaps and bounds above the stock miter gauge (and provide more support etc), but will the 5 cut test add much more to that initial improvement?

I don't have a digital caliper to do the testing, but could easily pick one up.

Any and all opinions are appreciated in helping this beginner out. Thanks everyone!


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## TiggerWood (Jan 1, 2014)

I don't know what the five cut test is but I do a cut and turnover cut, both ways, to check the squareness. It's usually square enough that I can't see any difference with a magnifying glass.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Just my $.02, and others may disagree:

If a square placed against the rear fence of the sled and the saw blade doesn't show any gaps, your sled is as square as it needs to be for woodworking purposes.


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

I use charlie's method to square the fence and tiggerwood's to confirm squareness.
The 5 cut method is a waste of material.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

There are a number of methods for squaring a sled, and it doesn't matter which one you use, but if the sled doesn't cut square it will be worthless. If your miter gauge is junk, I recommend getting a good one as you will still need it for some things a sled can't do.


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## Woodbum (Jan 3, 2010)

I spent a lot of time squaring all of my sleds with the five cut method just for grins after I did my primary sled. It was time consuming, but a great mental exercise. Did I waste my time? I don't think so. Others may think so but I had fun and ended up with VERY accurate sleds, but as was said, maybe unnecessary for woodworking. But then again how much or little accuracy is acceptable? It is all up to each of us individually. But your sled really needs to be as accurate as possible, or else what was the point of building it in the first place? Accuracy and square cuts.

No, you really don't need to use the five cut method, but I learned something valuable from the Wm. Ng video from his web site about building a sled and squaring the fence. I am satisfied that my time was well spent. Work safely and have fun!


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## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

Garage woodworks has an easy way to measure squareness of a sled with a dial indicator:


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## divingfe (Jun 4, 2012)

Thanks distrbd for the interesting video post. Razorburne, welcome to the adventures and misadventures of alignment and quality, and obsession. I got rid of my Ryobi tabletop saw, after many hours of trying to get a square cut…I even thought of making a xcut sled and not bothering with the bad and useless miter gauge, so, I totally sympathize with you. If you have a .001" dial indicator, and a good stand to keep it from shifting, probably the [video viewed] dial indicator method is more than OK. The five cut method is very simple, easy, and doesn't require any fancy equipment, just some time and gentleness in adjusting, and some patience. The video shows that the POTENTIAL, for both methods, is about 10 times more accurate for the 5-cut method. But that is just the potential, your mileage may vary ) I made a large xcut sled for my next saw, my current Ridgid 5412, and used a square to align the back sled fence to 90º to the blade, and its OK., for most everything I do. If I used either of dial or 5cut methods, I could make it even closer. But consider that, the value of the xcut sled in the first place, is for crosscutting long and/or wide stock with one existing true edge, that is too bulky to accurately and smoothly cut with just a miter gauge, even with an added fence For a short 2×4, you would never even use it in the first place. In any case, when constructing the xcut sled (many styles and types available on the Net), take the most time with the last important step; trueing the face of the rear fence and then performing the fence alignment process as shown on the video.
So, I recommend that you get a good miter gauge, take your time and use all the existing resources; YouTube videos, LJ and other forums, and adjust and align the saw first; as close as you can. At the minimum you need a good square. After this setup process, try some projects, you'll soon see if you are happy or not. And beware of "measurement obsession". WW should be fun. Regards.


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## Razorburne (Jul 7, 2014)

Thank you guys! All the information you provided is great and I will take all in advisement.

Out of curiosity divingfe and anyone else…..what do you consider a "good square". I have one that I think is good but how would I really know….do you recommend a particular brand?


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

I use Charlie's method as well. I spent good money on a square and align the rear fence. As for the accuracy of the square, I am pretty convinced that the thousandths of an inch that it may be off is not essential to my woodworking. I'm not a metalworker. It works. I've never had any binding or burning on my crosscuts, so I'm pretty happy.


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## PLK (Feb 11, 2014)

The larger your sled the more important it is to get it square.

This one took about an hour with the 5 cut method to get it to what I found acceptable.

There is a picture of the 30 year old brass plated square I used for initial blade to fence alignment.

Paul


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## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

> ...what do you consider a "good square". ....do you recommend a particular brand?
> 
> - Razorburne


You can buy a transparent Plexiglas drafting square from places office depot or here, .12" is a good start.


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## skatefriday (May 5, 2014)

I bought an Incra miter gauge at the same time I bought my table saw. I quickly discovered I was going to need a sled, built one (not perfect), and it's become my most used accessory. Even with a very slight bow along the back fence that I'm going to fix as soon as I finish this cabinet I'm working on. The sled is really nice for aligning cut marks because of the zero clearance kerf you get when you build it. I thought I'd be using the Incra much more than I actually am.


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## Razorburne (Jul 7, 2014)

I know I have something just like this:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_118041-1099-TS153_4294607850__?productId=1005807&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo=

Is that any good?
It looks similar to what Paul posted as using, though I have no idea if they are as similar as they seem to me.


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## Razorburne (Jul 7, 2014)

I just saw this video in which plywood supports are secured behind the reference fence (into the fence and into the base of the sled) in order to provide extra support to the fence and I suppose to help it maintain its squareness after heavy use:


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## Woodmaster1 (Apr 26, 2011)

On my sled I incorporated a couple of safety features. A stop and blade cover on the back side of the sled fence. See pictures on projects page.


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## lynn1953 (Jun 28, 2013)

I just built one yesterday. I did the 5 cut method, first time I was .005 out. I realigned and got to .001 in 16 inches. I know that it may be too ocd but I only "wasted " 2-1/2 inches of wood and 30 minutes but I had fun seeing if I could improve on it. Plus I got a good square,way to cut something. My 2 cents is go for it and have fun in the challenge.


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## divingfe (Jun 4, 2012)

Good for you, lynn1953!! I think that is cool. The closer the better-within (for me) the limits of sanity, domestic tranquility, and $$$$$$. I plan to re-align my sled coming up, and I will probably use the 5cut method, for fun, experience, and craftsmanship, as you mentioned. Hence, Razorburne, a quite acceptable plastic draftsman's square, available from stationery stores and some BBoxes as mentioned above will do the trick for starters.. I found a very nice Starrett Carpenter's square a year ago when I was building my sled. It's model RSA-24, just aluminum, so, it's fine for my purposes and uses (which I think is the watchword, along with you guys' fine advice and experience!!). I think it cost in the neighborhood of $15 or so. It's long enough to measure the lengths involved- I got two(don't ask!!) and used them to straddle opposite sides of the blade in the new kerf to set the back fence. So accuracy doesn't have to be expensive.Most of my try square work is done with the nicer Empire (Home Depot)- I think it is called 'blue-line') one for day to day. I also have two very nice Incra try squares; a 90º and a 45º. They were fairly expensive; I use them for nit-picky stuff and alignment of saws, jointers, drill press and bandsaw, but again, as mentioned above, most day-to-day squaring and checking while jointing, etc, is done with the Empire. And, if I drop it on my orange-shag-carpeted basement floor (go ahead and drool, guys!!!!! )-no disaster. BTW, if you use sturdy material in the first place, and cut it squarely, extra support probably won't be needed on the fences. I used 3/4 ply(medium grade), and 2×4s-2×6s.
I like to have some very accurate measuring tools; squares, tapes, dials, etc, at least as accurate as I can afford right now (read- Incra or similar), for calibration and checking of my tools; but for woodworking- let's see:
On my flat, sturdy, aluminum router table, with a solid thick aluminum mounting plate; I measure the height of the bit as accurately as I can, then rout two pieces of stock- one with firm pressure on the push block, another with very firm pressure on the push block. Now then, getting nit-picky, I measure them both to the nth degree with my fancy measuring tools, and, of course, they are slightly different. So…... what is the point of sweating the SUPER accurate set-up, when the careful, but different, application technique results in a different measurement. The same point is applicable, I think, to all my work, and measuring situations, so…. Easy Does It, with both measuring and applying measurements. Incidentally, according to my calculator; 1/128th inch is equal to about .008. I can't SEE 1/128 on anything except the finest calibrated rule!! So, let's see--- 1/512th of an inch [ !!!! ] is equal to .002.
Hmmm, perhaps a little perspective about wood, its flexibility and [manual] compressibility, puts the whole measurement/accuracy argument in its own perspective. and will allow me to get back to the pure pleasure of the sound of a saw, the smell of wood shavings, and the feeling of moving a handplane down a piece of a tree.


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