# Wood hardness vs. cost ratio



## starringemma (Aug 15, 2012)

I've been wanting to find a chart of lumber hardness and price ratio.

Is Poplar harder than pine? How much more expensive is it than pine?

How about Willow or Ash?


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## joeyinsouthaustin (Sep 22, 2012)

Alder is softer than poplar, but more expensive…. The question is confusing because in general there is not a significant correlation between hardness and price… many other factors, demand, rarity, location, use, purpose, availability…. all affect price??


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## treaterryan (Feb 20, 2012)

Hickory - Dirt cheap and HARD. I have not seen such a chart, and it would be hard to make one, because prices fluctuate as Joey mentioned. Lumber pricing is a confusing beast, as it depends on new housing starts, weather, and many other variables.


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## marcuscraft (Nov 14, 2012)

Just what Joey said, no strong correlation between price/hardness.


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## shampeon (Jun 3, 2012)

It's easy to find lists of wood with the janka hardness rating online. It's hard to find real-time price lists at lumber dealers for the reasons stated above. Your best bet is to go to a dealer with a good selection and ask for a price list. Maybe MacBeath would email you one? I dunno.

If you're looking for a cheap, super hard wood, go with hickory, as Ryan sez. It's got nice grain, doesn't have open pores like oak, and is readily available. Some people hate working hickory, though. Note that pecan and hickory are distinct species, but both are sold as "hickory" because they're so similar. It's a lot like "white oak" and "red oak" where there are a ton of different species lumped together due to their similar characteristics.


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## starringemma (Aug 15, 2012)

Thanks guys,

That's kinda the answers I was expecting. I'd like to make a somewhat thick hard wood bench top. Sounds like hickory's the winner.


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## shampeon (Jun 3, 2012)

For a work bench top, hickory, oak, or ash are all about the same price and plenty hard. Keep in mind, though, that harder wood is also harder to mill and work.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

you'll want some sharp tools to work dried hickory. What exactly do you plane to use the bench for? When its time for an anvil, its time for an anvil (or a piece of railroad tie).


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## starringemma (Aug 15, 2012)

DonW,

I watched a video on flattening a bench top by sliding a router mounted in a sled across 2 rails mounted on the sides of the bench top… using a 1 3/4 flat bit.

The bench top would be for a typical bench top. Do you have bench top plans using rail road ties?


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## shampeon (Jun 3, 2012)

I wouldn't use a railroad tie for anything but a retaining wall, or a big surface to hit ******************** on outside. Creosote tar is not good for you.

You can flatten a bench that way, with the router, jig, and sled, but you can do it easier and without having to make any jigs with a hand plane, which I understand you know a lot about now. 8^)


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

i'm just saying you don't need to worry about finding the hardest wood you can find for a woodworking bench top. You'd be surprised at how well a pine benchtop will stand up to normal woodworking. A nice ash or oak will work just fine.


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Google janka scale. You should be able to get all the hardness info there. Cost is going to be a regional and market condition sort of thing.


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## cutworm (Oct 2, 2010)

Mine is SYP. Cheap and is holding up well.


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## starringemma (Aug 15, 2012)

Shampoo… 

My delusional hand plane knowledge is fun while role playing as a knowledgeable ebay buyer asking a seller why their type 11 has a high knob and a kidney shaped key hole.


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## Tugboater78 (May 26, 2012)

southern yellow pine is tough enough and cheap..im about to try to see if the yellow poplar joists and studs i took from a house i dismantled, will work for my bench :0 its over a century old. im worried it may be too brittle though..its hard, damn near impossible to drive a nail in..


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## TimberFramerBob (Feb 18, 2013)

Janka scale


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## treaterryan (Feb 20, 2012)

Just for the RR Tie comment, they dont grow with creosote on them in the wild, basically they are just 2A grade 36/4 boxed heart lumber. I see too many comments about creosote on here from people who do not know anything about it. Its not a tar, its distilled from coal tar from coke ovens.

I didnt know you were building a bench, SYP or Doug Fir would be fine.


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## shampeon (Jun 3, 2012)

Well, I won't use the phrase "creosote tar" from now on. But creosote's a carcinogen, and I've seen a ton of threads on various forums about people thinking about planing off the creosote from old RR ties, which is a pretty bad idea for wood that isn't that great to begin with.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

The router planer works well for flattening the top. I am setting up one that can do 4 feet by 10 feet. An entire table top in one shot.


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## starringemma (Aug 15, 2012)

Watch this video…

174 - Flattening Workbenches and Wide Boards with a Router

http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/flattening-workbenches-and-wide-boards-with-a-router/


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## pjones46 (Mar 1, 2011)

If you go to Downes and Readers site and scroll down, then click on the family of woods which you are interested, when you click on a specific wood in each list they give what they stock but also what the Janka Hardness and the Specific Gravity for that particular wood species. It is a list only for what they carry but it is quite complete.

For example Hickory is here and White Oak is here. Specific gravity is telling also.

They do not have a price comparisson but this info may help. You might look at Hard Maple.

Good Luck,

Paul


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## LeChuck (Jan 6, 2010)

Having just used hickory for a cutting board, I certainly would not want to have to flatten a whole bench top of it with hand planes. Looks like it's so hard, the plane just wants to skid over the surface most of the time.


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