# Make red oak look like cherry in color?



## jbrukardt (Apr 12, 2012)

So, I have a rather unique situation where I would like red oak to have the color of cherry. While I certainly wish I could have just originally bought cherry, the price difference over thousands of BF was insurmountable for me.

So the grain of red oak, with the color of cherry, via a stain.

As inspiration, i have these photos:

http://www.matthewwalterwoodworking.com/index.php?filename=jotoba-media-room.html



















I realize this is a daunting task, and not really what you should be using red oak for, but i would appreciate any advice regardless

I have three main challenges it seems

A) Getting the color right (most solutions seem to be "too brown" 
B) Having a stain that doesnt darken the grain exceptionally as red oak is prone to do
C) Not having the wood be too dark, since i have hundreds of square feet of it per room

I have tried all the major brands of pre-mixed stain from woodcraft, as well as box stores and major paint stores with no luck. The closest I have come so far is using SamaN water based stains, with a mixed solution similar to their "sangria" color, but with altered proportions, but its still not quite right.

Any experience or recommendations as to what might work?


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Hire a professional and pay a consultation fee of a finisher that is held in high regard in your area.

You have some beautiful work there and the need to get it right once is of high priority. I'm sure the finisher, with extensive experience, will make it look just like cherry.

Good luck.


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## jbrukardt (Apr 12, 2012)

As a hobbyist/homeowner rather than a professional, how might I go about finding said finisher? I am in the central maryland region.

This is what i'll actually be finishing off in that color if possible (work in progress):


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## reggiek (Jun 12, 2009)

Did you price Lyptus? It is cheaper here then red oak or cherry. The look is very similar to cherry and would be easier to match.

Otherwise, if you are stuck on red oak….the color is the easy part to match…the loose grain of oak vs. the tight grain of cherry is the bigger problem. Red oak is also less forgiving in certain situations because of that loose grain.

I would certainly recommend you use a pre stain product to make sure you do not get any blotching or dark areas that would emphasize the grain. If the color becomes problematical…you can use an oil based coating like tung oil or BLO and add an oil compatible dye or coloring agent (there are analines and or several coloring agents sold by commercial paint stores). This kind of mixture is much more forgiving I believe than a commercial stain….you can also sand it a bit to reduce the color and contrasts. Make sure you have several bit of scraps around to test your color and grain attempts.

You will want to rub out any sheen on the oak as it will emphasize the grain (which will make it look less like cherry….make sure you protect with a satin or flat outer coat.


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## jbrukardt (Apr 12, 2012)

I am ok with the oak grain as it is unfinished, the cathedraling is actually quite nice when its subtle. So i dont need the grain to match cherry 100%, as long as it doesnt get a strong dark grain.

Any recommended pre-stain? I was recommended a 50 acetone/50% water solution pre-staining to promote even stain absorption, but that may not be the same thing

I have not priced Lyptus, but I can certainly look into it, i cant complain about cheaper at all. I already have all the oak purchased (and half of it already up on the walls) for this project, but i still have several rooms to do upstairs in the house and will certainly look into Lyptus for those.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Fill, sand flush, dye, faux and finish.


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

Have you thought about using dyes? I had excellent luck matching a mahogany table(75 yrs old) with blood red and walnut dyes(compliments of Michael1 suggestions) on poplar.


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## cjwillie (Sep 6, 2011)

A painting contractor may be able to help you match the color you want. You could also try to mix stains to get the right color. Just make sure when you mix it that you make enough to do the whole job with one batch so you won't have to try to match another batch.


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## jbrukardt (Apr 12, 2012)

Dyes are certainly on the table, im thinking the SamaN products (http://www.samanwoodstain.com/) may be dye based, and come in "core" colors like the blood red you mentioned.

Im mixing their raspberry and cherry core colors to create the sangria finish thats the closest so far.


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## jbrukardt (Apr 12, 2012)

Im thinking that I just have a terrible eye for color, and need some help from an aforementioned "finisher" who knows their product really well in terms of color reproduction on varying woods


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I think General finishes dyestain will do what you want in A,B,C. GF has some great colors and with dye you can thin it to lessen the color or do repeated coats that unlike stain keeps getting darker with each application, it's even reversible by wiping it with household bleach. Oddly enough you start by using a yellow to get a cherry color and then use either one or a mixture of reds.I like cinnamon,vintage cherry and merlot.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2020491/General-Finishes-Water-Based-Dyes-.aspx


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## jbrukardt (Apr 12, 2012)

I tried two general finishes solutions: The Cranberry Red wood stain, and the empire red dye stain

They were certainly different from everything else, in that for once, they were too red rather than too brown, which was promising. They also had a bit of a milk stain look to them, in that they "covered" the wood, rather than coloring it if that makes any sense.

However, I didnt try mixing those yet. Any recommended ratios or mixes that might achieve the color im looking for on red oak? I certainly wouldnt have thought of starting with a yellow on my own


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## bruc101 (Sep 13, 2008)

I've seen this done with oak before. I've not done it and the best I can remember the home owner said it was done with a Minwax Red Oak Stain. 
I have no clue as to how it was done but it was eye catching and beautiful.
Oak is not on of my favorites to work because my hands are allergic to the dust but that did catch my eye the minute I walked in her door.


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## jbrukardt (Apr 12, 2012)

Wow, im super impressed with the response here, and id like to thank everyone answering for all your advice. I hope my responses come off as open to trying things and not just dismissive. As a headsup, this is my first time color matching anything at all, and also my first woodworking project, so its a huge learning experience for me. If you'd believe it, ive been trying to match this on my own for about 5 months before coming here to post.


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

I am a strong proponent of Rodda finishes. Their main benifit is that they minimize the grain effect of red oak. This is because Rodda is a thick-bodied stain, and applies very nicely. I usually thin it with two ounces mineral spirits per quart of stain. My favorite color is #19 Fruitwood, however I'm sure they will have the red tone you are after. 
I recommend multiple sample boards - all sanded to the same grit as your project, topcoated and dry, to compare in your homes natural and electric light. That way you will know exactly what you are getting.


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## jbrukardt (Apr 12, 2012)

Havent heard of rodda, interesting. Trying to find their color listing now.

And yep, thats what im doing for sampling. at minimum 12 inch by 7 inch boards, all sanded to 150, and top coated with three coats of my finish after staining for comparison. I have a stack of them halfway to my waist by now


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## jbrukardt (Apr 12, 2012)

Looks like rodda is out for me :/ no color card that i can find online, no place to order online, and only available in the pacific nw


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Just throwing this in…. If you are trying to match what's in the photos you posted, unless the photos themselves are off, that's not natural cherry with a clear finish. It looks like what you are really trying to match is another stain.

As others have mentioned, the color shouldn't really be the problem, even if it requires a bit of trial-and-error mixing. I think Loren's suggestion of using a grain filler is the only way you'll control those dark highlights.


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## jbrukardt (Apr 12, 2012)

I actually emailed the gentleman that did the room, and it is natural cherry according to him. Per his email

*That is a clear-coat on Brazilian cherry, usually used for flooring. Heavy, difficult wood to mill-tough on machines, but absolutely gorgeous.
Staining to match would be hit and miss. What type of wood?
*


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

yes, it can be done, you will need some scraps to experiment with though.


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## jbrukardt (Apr 12, 2012)

Thank you very much sir, i think i made up for the lack of experience by increased time, took me almost a year to do two rooms, 4 months of that being figuring out how to not mess up the 3 inch raised panels, with the ultimate problem being poor equipment (chatter on an underpowered router, which claimed to be 3.5hp, but which was more like 2). Proper router fixed it right up


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

Remember most dyes are not as colorfast as oil based stain. Even the best dyes will fade in sunlight.
Also, you do not need to use pre-stain conditioner on oak. If you were using cherry, it would be a must.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Ahhh. Brazilian cherry. That explains it. I knew it was not the color of any North American cherry I've ever seen.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I agree that grain filling is a good idea but it does take a fair amount of extra work. As far as mixing colors of dyes is concerned I would guess you might need 4 different colors to experiment with to get the color you want I think the colors I listed above will work. The thing about dye is after it dries it looks really flat but after you put a clear coat on it looks great,so look at it when it's wet and that will be pretty much the look it has after a clear coat has been put on top.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Stain is going to emphasize those big open pores unless you fill them. I would use a mix of dyes, which can also be added to the final finish as a toner.


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## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

I used to have a house that was trimmed in red oak that looks exactly like what you have there. I hated leaving that mantle and considered taking it with me, but it would never work in my new home.

Beautiful wood.


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## jbrukardt (Apr 12, 2012)

ok, so forget the SamaN stain. It is absolutely miserable to work with. I just built a small tv stand and it took me 2.5 hours to stain maybe 11 square feet of lumber. It just doesnt spread, i realize its a wiping stain, but its so tedious to work with.

Same with polyacrylic water based finish. Miserable to work with, geez

Well, ive discovered finishing is my major weakness.


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## levan (Mar 30, 2010)

You might try hood finishing products. I have used their products in the past and found them pretty easy to
match or color wood to what ever you wish. they have utc tinting colors you add to their wiping stain to get it just right. 
http://www.sharesnack.com/ACED5AAD75E/f5f316866233843c3b67669f4eq739923

best of luck


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I've used polyacrylic water base for years with out problems. I find that people who have problems with using it are either not following it's instructions have something the shouldn't under it or the are not shooting in a correct manner or brushing it with the wrong brush. I also found The wiping stain to be rather easy to work with but it can differ greatly from brand to brand. I prefer Sherwin Willliams brand. If your applying these materials to paneling already installed it's going to be tough unless you can spray it and even then if you don't have experience spraying it can be tough.
If you want to learn more about finishing I would suggest getting a copy of Charles Neil's "Finishing A-Z beyond the books" If that's not possible Charles will gladly give you help if you e mail him.


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## Fuzzy (Jun 25, 2007)

If you have any GOOD furniture stores in your area, you might ask them who they use for repairs & touchups on newly delivered furniture.

Most of those guys have a tremendous wealth of information … maybe an offer of a decent lunch would lure him in.


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## WOODIE1 (Feb 28, 2012)

I just did some red oak and got some great answers form this forum. What I have learned is you aren't going to achieve a look you want using one color stain unless you are working with a wood where you love the look of the wood itself.

I would try putting a browner stain over that tinted red test piece to see what you end up with. In my novice findings using a pre stain does tone down the grain quite a bit.

For me I went with a Minwax Jacobean and a General espresso which had dark grain through a dark stain which is what I wanted. I used GF water satin clear and it looks too plastic to me so I am sure you will have to try several clears also. You can even tint that.

It is red oak so it is what it is try and achieve a look you like in the oak rather then trying to make it something it will never be?


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