# Another Lichtenberg fractal burning death!



## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

https://www.penturners.org/threads/shop-safety.163272/



> I got word that Ronny was electrocuted using an engraving machine. I've seen them used on TV where you plug an electric source onto a piece of wood and then it burns a random pattern based on the grain. I'm not sure what they're called but I know that he built a lot of custom conference room tables and the last time I talked with him he was in the process of doing a custom one. The tool was new to him and I can only guess he wasn't familiar with it.


If you absolutely positively feel you are called by God to do this please at the very least buy a commercial unit and KNOW how to take the proper safety precautions. Otherwise, in the words of that late great woodworker Nancy Reagan, "just say no."


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

High voltage is no joke. The *ONLY* safety is distance. Disconnect from the mains. Hook up electrodes to work in distant, well insulated area. Use *long* switched power cord with *ground* to remotely cycle unit. Unplug from mains before getting within range to disconnect.

Neon transformers put out 180kv or more. Air ionizes at about 30kv per inch so 180kv will reach out to anything conductive within 6" or so. Once the arc is established only 8kv per inch is needed to sustain it or about two feet before it let's go. In the time it takes you to *fall* 18" at 180kv you're *DEAD*. Sorry, game over.

The effect is pretty but not worth your life.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

this message cant be repeated enough,i know a bunch of guys here love to do it but my advice is dont,it's not worth the risk no matter how beautiful the results may be,there are plenty of ways to make beautiful things from wood that dont involve electrocution.


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

> ,there are plenty of ways to make beautiful things from wood that dont involve electrocution.
> 
> - pottz


+1 I've seen people get similar results on pens and other small items using jpegs of fractal images and laser engravers instead.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

Sadly, it's a permanent cure for stupid. Having worked near high voltage for 42 years, there are many safety rules, and a lot of expensive equipment needed to do the work safely. A lot of training is a requirement for a long life in the world of high voltage electricity. It's not something learned from u tube. 
IT IS JUST NOT WORTH THE RISK!!!! What is your life worth? How many times must we see another death from this??


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

hey jim jakosh are you reading this my friend,please stop doing this,even though you might think it's safe,we need you here,*ALIVE BUDDY!!!!*


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

Aren't they making a safer version to do this now? Is Jim still doing it or he stopped?


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

> Ronny was using the machine he bought with all the safety equipment needed. Apparently the machine shorted, went to ground, and his death was the outcome. He was making a custom table when it happened.
> 
> I have to wonder since the project was a table, if he was reaching to the middle and he got too close making contact at the waist? At this point it doesn't matter as it doesn't change the outcome but serves as a good reminder to the rest of us as something to avoid.


So apparently it was a commercial machine and he was using the proper safety equipment. Everybody knows it's dangerous kinda like wingsuit flying. The problem is that people use the machine without understanding the science and potential danger and the proper steps to take to avoid accidents. None of the utube videos address that other than a cursory aside and don't go into real depth. On any forum when this comes up woodworkers say "it looks beautiful" and woodworkers who are also retired electrical workers say "you must be crazy!"


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> Ronny was using the machine he bought with all the safety equipment needed. Apparently the machine shorted, went to ground, and his death was the outcome. He was making a custom table when it happened.
> 
> I have to wonder since the project was a table, if he was reaching to the middle and he got too close making contact at the waist? At this point it doesn t matter as it doesn t change the outcome but serves as a good reminder to the rest of us as something to avoid.
> 
> ...


yeah theirs a reason they say it's crazy,listen to them guys !


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

The saddest part is this looks like a short lived fad. I mean the first time i saw it I thought it looked kind of cool, kind of like the epoxy "river" tables, or "live edge" tables. But in a couple years it will look dated. I remember when i was a kid I wanted one of those brass lamps with the fiber optic strands that lit up. So cool when they came out! For a year or so.


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## MSquared (Aug 20, 2018)

Folks! Heed the words of Ibewjon and the others - We've said this in the past. It bears repeating. Don't mess with it! To simplify … just look at lightning!! That came close for me on a few occasions while boating over the years. In my business, high voltage/amperage cables are routinely laid out on street curb sides in Manhattan and elsewhere. Rain/Snow/Sleet/Ice are factors. Dangerous! These are completely off-limits, cordoned off, until the Head Electrician deems it safe!! No questions!! Now, messing around in your workshop without the 'expertise'? Put me in your Will! And …. for what??!!


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

Yeah but couldn't you just use a jpeg with a laser engraver or a CNC, paint it to fill it in then sand it? It is a cool effect.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

Paint is a great option. And safe!!!


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

Part of the allure is the uncontrolled aspect that is the art. But, yeah, this be dumb.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

42 years ago, a classmate in the apprenticeship was working with his father, but was moved to another job. The next day his father came in contact with a high voltage cable. The end. He has always been thankful he was not there to see it. Another friend was burned in an arc flash, a type of electrical explosion. Took months of painful recovery. He was lucky, he lived. And these are experienced workers. Without training, PLEASE DON'T TRY IT!!!


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

Try painting with your eyes closed. Messy, but safe.


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

> Part of the allure is the uncontrolled aspect that is the art.
> 
> - Madmark2


Now that we've moved on from the subject of death…

Yes. There is something "somatic?" about fractals of any kind. 









I read somewhere that it's your brain interpreting the math as there is order on a level we don't realize. I've made some small ones with my cheapie laser engraver. You can download free fractal generators.


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

I've worked with gyrotrons and klystrons in the *many *kW range (up to 300 kW). Just 1100W is enough to keep me away from fractal burning, unless I had CNC equipment (good luck with that!) and was in a control room. I also used to rewire fixtures and such in 110V without powering down the circuit. I did that ONCE with a 220V circuit, and never did it again, at any voltage. That one hurt. But it didn't kill me, obviously.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

It only takes .1 to .2 amps to KILL. 1/10 to 2/10. A very small current can be lethal. Apparently we have not talked enough about death, because the message is not getting through to some people. I hope it does soon.


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## Fresch (Feb 21, 2013)

The way I was told just starting as an apprentice, " you can't see it, smell it, but it will kill you!". 
Later in my career you can see it out in the switch yard of a power plant. Utube has vids on open/closing of high voltage switches. 
Now go look up the PPE needed to be used with that kind of voltage, I'll bet no one bought or maintains the needed safety equipment; it isn't cheap.
But, people drink and drive, do drugs, play Russian Roulette, unsafe sex,..., ..., you play the game you pay the price.


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## Sark (May 31, 2017)

For a worker's compensation case, I interviewed an electrician whose arm completed the circuit on a 440v wiring project. Enough current ran through his arm that the electrical cable melted, probably saving his life and certainly saving his arm….though he did have lasting damage to his hand and arm.

What I found from the interview and research into the effects of electrocution, is that there can be long lasting and permanent psychological effects. Think post-traumatic syndrome. You might get your motion back, but you might never be the same emotionally. One of our neighbors got electrocuted while at work, and it caused permanent brain damage.

Just watched a YouTube video on Lichtenberg fractal burning. 10,000 volt transformer burning patterns on wet wood. Total gloss on the real dangers. .


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