# How do I avoid this?



## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

It always seem to get these when turning. My tools are sharp. What am I doing wrong?


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## Jim Jakosh (Nov 24, 2009)

Hi Jack, I take it you are talking about the chip out. It could be a weak spot in the grain that pulls out when you cut it in a certain direction. I see that happening at school when someone is rounding up a square piece and the cutting of the corner tears down below the surface. I have them cut from the outside inward until it gets round.

What kind of wood is that? Cherry?

Do you get it with just that wood or all types?

Jim


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## poospleasures (Aug 7, 2011)

That looks like cedar. I really like to turn cedar but it can be a very brittle wood. I would check for loose knots or just hairline cracks. When found dribble some supper glue in them. Like Jim says cut outside to inside. Use very light cuts until blank is round


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

There is a lot of wonky grain around those knots. It happens to everyone. Best advice is take a real light cut when dealing with wood like that.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

+1 on what Bondo had to say.

If talking about the tear out slow down your cut, go back to the grinder for final cuts. You will see a lot of turners using a pull shearing technique with their bowl gouge these days on final cuts. Can do same thing with push cut with practice.

Several Videos online demonstrating how to shear scrap with regular turning & carbide tools.


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## JoeinGa (Nov 26, 2012)

Are you asking about the big chunk missing from the top edge?

Or the heavy turning lines (grooves) on the sides?


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## Sigung (Nov 20, 2013)

Jack, I'd love to help, but I suck at turning. This happens to me most often when I'm using a skew chisel. I've never mastered that particular tool, and it's pretty much made turning something I don't do anymore, scares the crap out of me. If that "turns" out to be your problem, then I guess practicing on more regularly grained wood might get you there. Knots are, well, like stones.


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## MLWilson (Jun 28, 2015)

Yeah. What Joe said. I think you're talking about the lines - what I call "corkscrews." I address those with a square-nose scraper, presented with a negative rake. and a very light touch, This happens, as the others said, because the tool you're using is bouncing over a hard spot - a knot; pitch; heartwood/softwood interchange; etc.
As it happens, I have this on the lathe:










This is glued up Douglas Fir (Eeww). I've penciled some of the corkscrews. The thing I try to do with such thing, is to get the shape I'm after, pretty much ignoring the corkscrews til I arrive at the shape, then use, as I said before, a scraper, at a negative angle, very lightly skimming off what I can. Then, when no further progress seems to be taking place, I turn to the heavy-grit sandpaper, to make them go away. This isn't easy. It takes a lot of patience.
Check this, for more information: http://lumberjocks.com/MLWilson/blog/75194

If you go to the sixth montage down, you'll see corkscrews on the inside of the bowl. A straight scraper, of course, is no help. You can see the front end of a big round-nose scraper on the tool rest. That's how I addressed the inside corkscrews. That, and lots of sandpaper.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

I know absolutely nothing about turning. But that looks like Eastern Red Cedar. I believe that it conspires to screw up many projects. Anything with that twisted grain can get you.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

I'm guessing he's talking about the big chunk that looks like it has pretty nasty gouge leading up to it? It might help to know what tool you were using when that happened. My worst catches seem to come when I'm not paying close enough attention to where the tip and bevel of the tool is.

I haven't turned any eastern red cedar, but I have had western red cedar disintegrate with the smallest of catches. Fortunately, I was just using it to experiment with with different tools so it was better than getting a bad catch on something that didn't give.


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

Thanks guys. It is cedar I milled several years ago. Catches such as this:








and this









I get this type of thing more often than not.
I rarely turn but seeing all the cool stuff you guys do, I'm trying but failing. Kinda spooky when it grabs as well.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

I'm a turner newbie too, but I like turning cedar. It makes for some nice product, then done.

I haven't tackled any with a skew. I use gouges I keep sharp and a light touch on my back hand. That lets the knife bounce, if it must, and reduces forcing it to do what the wood refuses to let it do (guess that qualifies as a catch).

When I get something like this, it's always been a fracture or something and in dry wood, which is what I mostly turn.


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

A light grip on the handle, eh? I usually have a death grip on the handle, white knuckle death grip.


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

Oh I was using a roughing gouge. Sharp enough to slice paper or shave hair on my arm.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Roughing gouge … as in *'Spindle Roughing Gouge'*?

That's the wrong tool to be using on a cross-grain piece. Do you have a bowl gouge?


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

Yes a spindle gouge. I don't have a bowl gouge. Guess I start looking.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

> Yes a spindle gouge. I don t have a bowl gouge. Guess I start looking.
> 
> - jumbojack


Spindle roughing gouges can be dangerous when used to turn a bowl. Here is a petty decent reference on gouges: http://www.docgreenwoodturner.com/gouges1.html

Also, this guy explains the problem pretty well:




He is starting with a square blank, but the same principles / dangers still apply.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

> Spindle roughing gouges can be dangerous when used to turn a bowl.
> 
> - TheDane


TheDane, 
What do you think about using a spindle gouge that has a slight fingernail profile after roughing round? My understanding is that the danger you allude to regarding the roughing gouge is that the corners are what catches. If the corners are ground back a little on the spindle gouges do you think that is dangerous also? I've done it with no problems but I am careful do to keep the corners away.

Jumbojack, I bought a set of 3 nice Hurricane bowl gouges from Amazon for under $70. That seemed to be the best deal I could find and seem to be pretty good quality. I reground 2 to an Irish fingernail profile and the biggest of the 3 is my go-to roughing tool for bowls, inside and out. It can still be a little scary when roughing large (well, large for a mini-lathe anyway) rough logs but makes quick work of it. With practice and a sharp tool, you can get a nice smooth finish. And if you are making a bowl, there may be no other way to hollow it than with a bowl gouge except for maybe a carbide tool which seem crazy expensive.

EDIT: Here is the set I mentioned
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B008DH8ZM2/ref=s9_hps_bw_g469_i1


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

> TheDane,
> What do you think about using a spindle gouge that has a slight fingernail profile after roughing round? My understanding is that the danger you allude to regarding the roughing gouge is that the corners are what catches. If the corners are ground back a little on the spindle gouges do you think that is dangerous also? I've done it with no problems but I am careful do to keep the corners away.


I go with AAW's best practices for safety on this. The fact that somebody has done something for years without getting hurt doesn't mean it can't or won't happen.

While a bowl gouge is ground from a solid steel rod, the spindle roughing gouge is generally forged from flat steel and has a relatively weak tang. There are a few manufacturers (e.g. P&N) that are milling spindle roughing gouges from round stock, but I still think the bowl gouge is a better alternative.

The Spindle Roughing Gouge is designed for spindle turning, where the grain is all running the same direction.

When you are cutting a bowl blank, you have alternating face grain and side long grain, so the spindle roughing gouge will have a tendency to cut and skip, cut and skip as the grain orientation switches.

That's just begging for a catch, which can snap the tool, injure the turner, or both.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Thanks. Good information. When I said that I've done it I meant once and recently. I am not talking about the roughing gouge, this was with a spindle gouge with a fingernail profile (corners curved back). I have always heard that you should not use spindle gouges on bowls which is why I asked. I was having a problem with a piece of really wet elm where the sapwood after getting it round and roughly to shape was just sort of fraying. I was being very careful and it actually gave me a better cut than my bowl gouge but it made me pretty nervous since the guidelines say don't do it.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

There are, IIRC, two kinds of spindle gouges.

The kind I am used to are ground from a steel rod. The other type, referred to as 'continental' gouges, and forged from flat stock.

The continental spindle gouges are much shallower than a spindle roughing gouge (no high wings), and do have the wings swept back with no tip. Perhaps they may be a little less prone to catches than spindle roughing gouges, but they have the same weak tang.

If you go to Sorby's website ( http://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/b839082-continental-style-spindle-gouges ) you will note that they emphasize they are for spindle work.


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## SignWave (Feb 2, 2010)

Setting aside the tool distinctions, it looks to me like you're cutting directly into end grain. If all you've gotten so far is some small chip out, then you're lucky. Eventually, it will grab the tool or the piece will go flying. Not trying to be alarmist, but I don't want you or anybody to get hurt.

Brian Havens has a good video that addresses this issue.





Brendan Stemp has one that is more general, but has a good set of guidelines


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

PSI Tools has a set of 3 bowl gouges for $54. I have 2 sets, sharpened with different bevel angles. I have both Hurricane and BB tools, and consider them pretty equal, and they work very well.

My favorite tutorials for bowl turning have been by Lyle Jamieson - he has many on youtube. This one explains the 4 types of cuts for bowl turning.


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

Thanks all. I have acquired the correct tools and when I complete my flag case production run will revisit the lathe. I appreciate all the help you provided.


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