# Needing a new table saw r4512 or shop fox w1837



## jtp79 (Dec 9, 2016)

My first post but the title is self explanatory. I have a small craftsman table saw and it is time to upgrade. I do have a workshop, it is not tiny but isnt huge either. I am looking for something to put in the shop and leave. I have seen mixed reviews on the Ridgid 4512 but they are good overall. I know the shop fox is a little higher dollar saw but cant find much about them. Lets say in the 850 and under range, what kind of table saw would you buy and why? Also anyone that can give me an educated between the 2 i have narrowed it down to, please do. I have also looked at the grizzly saw that is comparable as I have heard they are the same machine as shop fox.

thanks in advance


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Grizzly has just introduced a new version of the G0771Z that has a better fence than the original G0771 (and the SF1837). $695 plus $99s/h. I think it merits a good look over either….full enclosure, solid cast wings, better fence, cabinet mounted trunnions.

*G0771Z:*









*original G0771*:









*SF1837:*









*R4512:*


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## bigJohninvegas (May 25, 2014)

I have the r4512, and it has been a good saw. However, I would not buy it again. I was a new woodworker, and I bought what I could afford at the time. 4 years later, and a little experience. I wish I had spent an extra couple $$ and bought something like the grizzly or shop fox saw. My only real complaint with the ridgid r4512 is the fence. 
I really have to watch it when adjusting it. A little saw dust in the front rail and it is no longer true. The shop fox/grizzly have a biesemeyer style fence. A much better design. I also feel fortunate not to have any of the blade alignment issues I have read so much about. 
So I have considered a fence upgrade. But I am struggling with spending money on this saw. In the end, I think I will just sell it and upgrade it all. 
Good luck.


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## jtp79 (Dec 9, 2016)

Thanks. I will go look at it right now. I am basically table saw illiterate when it comes to doing anything other than ripping boards. But plan on starting to use a dado blade to cut grooves in order to build my drawers and things of that nature. I am nothing more than a hobbyists that basically is replacing furniture in side my house. My wife has discovered pinterest and the list is a mile long.

I have built some countertops out of walnut for our bathroom remodel. The craftsman table saw did not like ripping the walnut. Will the price point of the machines I am considering handle most hobbyists functions without any trouble?


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## Abn101mp (Oct 11, 2016)

I was in in your exact same situation 6 months ago. I had a craftsman 10 in with slide outs and was looking to upgrade.
I found a very nice, well maintained Ridgid TS2424 on Craigslist for $275.00. 
It came with the Hercules stand and the fence is dead on accurate.
I have since moved the fence to the right and added a router table. I am very pleased with saw. Very accurate and easy to adjust.


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## WhyMe (Feb 15, 2014)

You should throw the Delta 36-725 sold by Lowe's into the mix.


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## jtp79 (Dec 9, 2016)

> You should throw the Delta 36-725 sold by Lowe s into the mix.
> 
> - WhyMe


Does the delta hold a candle to the grizzly or the shop fox?


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## bbasiaga (Dec 8, 2012)

The delta is in the same class s the Ridgid. If you read around here enough, you may get he impression that the Griz and shop fox are a step up from that.

As far as ripping thick boards, going to a 3hp motor is where you will see a big difference, so these saws won't make a ton of difference there. Where they will help, is by having a better fence and better options for aligning the blade. These things increase the efficiency of the saw since the blade isnt rubbing against the wood as it cuts. You can also go to a high quality rip blade, which will help a bunch as well. Even a really good combo blade would help.

So will it handle most hobbyist activities? Absolutely. You'll just need to know the limitations. When working with thick woods, watch your feed rate and make sure you've got the right blade.

Brian


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

> You should throw the Delta 36-725 sold by Lowe s into the mix.
> 
> - WhyMe
> 
> ...


They all have potential to be serviceable saws. Blade choice and setup will largely determine their end performance. With that said, if all else is equal (it's really not), cabinet mounted trunnions tend to be easier to align, a good fence is a plus, solid cast iron wings are a plus, a full enclosure is a plus, and bit more hp is a plus. The R4512 and the Delta both have steel wings so you give up the cast iron wings, and both have slightly smaller motors compared to the Griz or SF. The Delta has a decent fence, but with a two-piece front rail…not ideal, but still a decent design compared to the R4512, W1837, and G0771. The G0771Z offers all the goodies, albeit it's more expensive. Once setup up and fitted with a good blade, you probably won't be able to tell which saw made the cut by looking at a board fresh off the saw, but you'll sure notice the difference in how they feel and operate.

In the end you'll need to decide which features are most important to you, and what you can and can't live without. ie: Will you miss cast iron wings, or a couple hundred bucks more? If you can swing it without undue hardship, I've never regretted getting a few upgrades on my TS. YMMV.


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## Jason273 (Dec 6, 2016)

I'm in the same boat…looking for a first decent table saw… I was looking at the R4512 and the Delta 36-725. I just spent some time reading reviews on the Delta. The R4512 has the alignment issue that could be a fix or maybe not. And the Delta seems to have a motor that goes bad after a short time. Or so the bad reviews on Lowes website say.

So if I'm spending 600 on a saw a couple hundred more is better than wasting money on a saw that won't hold up etc.

I'll keep looking …the Grizzly I'll have to research now. .....

Lots to consider…


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## WhyMe (Feb 15, 2014)

> I m in the same boat…looking for a first decent table saw… I was looking at the R4512 and the Delta 36-725. I just spent some time reading reviews on the Delta. The R4512 has the alignment issue that could be a fix or maybe not. And the Delta seems to have a motor that goes bad after a short time. Or so the bad reviews on Lowes website say.
> 
> So if I m spending 600 on a saw a couple hundred more is better than wasting money on a saw that won t hold up etc.
> 
> ...


The vast majority of the reviews for the 36-725 on the Lowe's site are good. Yes, there are some bad reviews as is with any product. But proportionally the 36-725 is doing better with good reviews than bad for saws in this price.


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## jtp79 (Dec 9, 2016)

Are any of these saws made in the US? I assumed grizzly was but after seeing a spec page I saw made in china somewhere?


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

> Are any of these saws made in the US? I assumed grizzly was but after seeing a spec page I saw made in china somewhere?
> 
> - jtp79


None I know of. You'd almost certainly have to buy an older used saw, or a very high end industrial saw to find one made in the US. I think the last remotely consumer level saw to be made in the USA was the Unisaw, and that ceased within the last couple of years.


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## jtp79 (Dec 9, 2016)

> Are any of these saws made in the US? I assumed grizzly was but after seeing a spec page I saw made in china somewhere?
> 
> - jtp79
> 
> ...


China scares me a little when it comes to stuff like this. Is the quality control better on the grizzly than on the others? Or do you know?


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## Carloz (Oct 12, 2016)

> China scares me a little when it comes to stuff like this. Is the quality control better on the grizzly than on the others? Or do you know?
> - jtp79


Times of bad quality of goods made in China are all gone. (Actually times of goods not made in China are long gone too.) 
The bad quality comes not because Chinese cannot make a good product, but because a US company requested a very low priced product. So put the blame where it belongs.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

> Are any of these saws made in the US? I assumed grizzly was but after seeing a spec page I saw made in china somewhere?
> 
> - jtp79
> 
> ...


Every model is unique, but Grizzly is a very reputable company with some great machines. Many represent excellent value. I've owned a Grizzly 6" jointer and 2hp dust collector for over 15 years…both have performed flawlessly. I also have a Shop Fox W1677 table saw, that's essentially the same as the G1023SL, and it's been a wonderful tool since I got it in 2008. Much of Grizzly's discount comes from being a direct supplier, and skipping dealer markup. They also tend to have shorter warranty period. Most of their machinery that I'm aware of is good…especially for hobbyists. (the application should always be a consideration for any tool) It's the really low price/low grade stuff from any brand that's really more of a concern IMO.

Do I wish all my tools were made in the USA? You bet, but I'd own a fraction of the tools, or would own all used stuff. It's just not cost effective to build a high quality $600 saw in the US.


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## jtp79 (Dec 9, 2016)

> China scares me a little when it comes to stuff like this. Is the quality control better on the grizzly than on the others? Or do you know?
> - jtp79
> 
> Times of bad quality of goods made in China are all gone. (Actually times of goods not made in China are long gone too.)
> ...


I wasnt blaming anyone. I was just voicing a concern.


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## JollyGreen67 (Nov 1, 2010)

Not to throw rocks into the mix - but - Delta does not, or will not, support anything that is not in their current catalog.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> Not to throw rocks into the mix - but - Delta does not, or will not, support anything that is not in their current catalog.
> - Jimbo4


Actually, that is true for many manufacturers. They typically try to make sure they have enough parts to cover through the end of the warranty period and that's it. Black and Decker is probably the worst offender in that regard, but the others are similar give or take a few years. Ironically, it was Black and Decker that killed the parts inventory for Delta, and Pentair played a part in their problems before that. Perhaps the best description of what happened to Delta and their parts supply chain for older machines can be found here: Delta Parts Availabilty?

One key sentence in that letter from Delta was: "*When Black & Decker saw this 20 year supply of parts their business model viewed it as excessive inventory and a good percentage of these parts were destroyed.*"

New, current products from Delta are pretty well supported. It's the older out of production machines that are problematic, as explained in link above. Fortunately, for many of the older machines, there were so many made that the aftermarket, NOS and used parts markets can make up for a lot of what Delta lacks.

Cheers,
Brad


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## crzy4wood (Nov 15, 2013)

Jtp79 which saw you ended up buying?


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## Ian57 (Oct 1, 2013)

Back in another thread, I asked which is better the Rigid 4512 or the similar priced Delta at Lowes. With a view to upgrading. I now have another question is the grizzly g0771z worth twice the price of these saws?


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## AwlThat (Mar 1, 2018)

I just noticed that HD raised the price of the 4512 $50.

I have been going back and forth myself on the Ridgid or the Delta. After seeing a couple of very well thought out videos on U2'b, I have decided on the Ridgid, even with the price increase.

I have also looked at the Grizzly and while it's not exactly twice the price, once you add shipping and a mobile stand (that I would like), it's almost there.

After all the videos I've watched and reviews I've read, if I could get the extra scratch, I would go for the Grizzly. I know that's not the answer you were looking for, but I think it's a pretty good value considering something like a SawStop jobsite saw is another $300-$500 more expensive than the Grizzly cabinet saw (if it's fair to call it that).


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