# A Word to the Wise on Ebay Shipping:



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

It looks like Ebay wants a piece of the action on international shipping. With my Canadian address, I usually verify that the shipper is using US Postal Service, or Royal Mail if shipping from Great Britain. The reason is simple… I almost NEVER had to pay customs, broker charges, or duty on inbound international parcels. * I appreciate having control over which carrier to use.* On the other hand, if the shipper uses UPS, Fed-Ex, or other couriers, they stand at my door with their hand out, wanting money for the above charges. Now, Fed Ex is even sneakier, sending a bill a week or two after delivering the parcel!!!!

Anyway, this is the latest communique from Ebay:

*We are writing to let you know about updates to the eBay User Agreement. The updated User Agreement was posted on www.ebay.com on April 26, 2013. The updated User Agreement is effective immediately for new members, and on July 1, 2013, for current members.

Key updates to the eBay User Agreement: •Provisions regarding Global Shipping Program. We added provisions describing the Global Shipping Program, through which we may make your domestic U.S. listings available to international buyers. For items that are located in the United States and that you sell through the Global Shipping Program, you will simply ship the sold item to a parcel processing facility located in the United States, where a third party global technology and shipping provider will oversee the processing, customs clearance, and international shipment of the item to the buyer. Buyers will pre-pay all applicable shipping and import charges during checkout and will benefit from international tracking of the item from the parcel processing facility through delivery.

Unless you have previously opted into the Global Shipping Program or are a new user, we may make your eligible new and existing listings available to international buyers through the Global Shipping Program only after you have indicated a desire to take advantage of this program in the form of an electronic click-through acceptance of the User Agreement or otherwise. Your participation in the Global Shipping Program will be subject to additional terms and conditions, including an agreement with that provider for the provision of its services to you.

See Frequently Asked Questions for more information about this User Agreement update as it applies to the Global Shipping Program.

•Updates relating to eBay's process of amending the User Agreement and users' acknowledging acceptance of it. We updated the provision regarding the process by which the User Agreement may be amended and added a provision describing how a user may be asked to acknowledge acceptance of it.

As with previous updates, other changes have been made to keep the User Agreement up-to-date. We encourage you to review the updated User Agreement to familiarize yourself with the updates.

You don't need to take any further action to accept the updated eBay User Agreement. If you choose not to accept it, visit this help page for further direction.

Thank you for being a part of the eBay Community.*

In other words, your personal control over which carrier to use is now at the discretion of an "independent" forwarder, undoubtedly guaranteeing extra bucks in EBay's pocket. Undoubtedly, going to cost you more… Presumably, this impacts American users too, if they purchase internationally as well. It's already hard enough to justify typical shipping charges laid on an Ebay purchase, without a layer of surcharge on top of it.

This really upsets me.


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## jacob34 (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks for the info Poopiekat I purchase things on ebay alot and have gotten a thing or two from England, I will have to take this in to consideration in the future.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Yeah, *Jacob,* some of the best tools I ever bought came from England, where shipping appears to be more reasonable, on the whole, than shipping from the US… or even from within Canada! This new rule starts in July, I'm going to scarf up a bunch of deals before the new grab begins….

and don't forget.. if you're a *seller* on Ebay, you're going to get hurt , too.


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## YanktonSD (Jun 21, 2011)

I have sold items on ebay overseas. But as long as you have good communication and explain the cost it seems to work out. But I have noticed that shipping in the US has become extremely expensive. I feel bad when my customer is paying 40$ in shipping for a 10$ item. I haven't sold to Canada, but have sold to Bosnia, Brazil and Australia.


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## Deycart (Mar 21, 2012)

I just sold some stuff over seas today. I used USPS international first class. You don't HAVE to use it as a seller. It is just an option. Personally I always use that because it's way way cheaper. Good for me and my buyers.


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## RonInOhio (Jul 23, 2010)

Have bought a few things off of e-bay ,but that was a long time ago. Still have my account, but I just feel there are sneaky things going on with the bidding on a lot of items. I suppose if one is patient and wants to spend a lot of time on there, good deals are to be found.

I prefer Craiglist and forums . Too much hassle with e-bay imo.

I imagine E-bay is probably better for the seller,than the buyer.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks, *Yankton*! The issue that is outlined above is more for a buyer's point of view, but you've made a good point… that sometimes a buyer does not know well enough in advance of the total shipping charge at the moment he enters his bid. These new rules only benefit Ebay itself, and it cannot possibly be an advantage to the consumer.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

*Deycart:* On July 1st, you will no longer have *CONTROL* over WHICH carrier is used. This is the problem!


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## lwllms (Jun 1, 2009)

Sequestration and the cut-backs in the Postal Service in the US is causing a lot of problems. US Customs has had cut-backs and the Postal Service has closed a lot of facilities. It's caused my business so many problems we've stopped all international sales. An example is a package shipped through the Post Office from Arkansas to British Columbia goes to Miami, FL then to Jamaica, NY in a process that can take weeks. We used to be able to get a package to Canada in less than six days but not now. We were suffering a 50% refund rate on international orders and not one of those packages came back or reached its destination. I have no doubt e-Bay and its sellers were experiencing similar issues.


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## Ripthorn (Mar 24, 2010)

The way it reads to me is that if you list an item as only shipping domestically, then they will open those listings up to international buyers using the global shipping program. That would indicate to me that if I list my auction as shipping worldwide, I still get to choose the carrier. Is this not the case?


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## Deycart (Mar 21, 2012)

Like i said. I CHOOSE USPS first class international an that was the method I shipped buy today. I always offer international shipping. I rarely have a problem with USPS first class international. Regular international is something else.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

*Ripthorn*: As I interpret it, all international Ebay sales will be put in the hands of a third party, who will use its own discretion in selection of carrier. This benefits Ebay by offering your merchandise worldwide, including foreign scammers who you'd normally choose not to deal with, by generating some export fee revenue for Ebay itself.
You might not even have control anymore over whether your item is presented offshore! And the choice of carrier will no longer be yours to decide. I'll be sure to revive this topic in July and see if there's any war stories to be told.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Well, if "Buyers will pre-pay all applicable shipping and import charges during checkout " holds true, then that would be a plus,

also it states "we may make your eligible new and existing listings available to international buyers through the Global Shipping Program *only* after you have indicated a desire to take advantage of this program"


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

That's the problem, *Don, *it will be harder to AVOID import charges…and how will we know which sellers are in the program, before placing a bid?


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

I think this is a new program you have to opt in to. The existing mechanisms will remain. I believe you can continue to handle shipping internationally yourself, or you can opt-in to the new program.


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## Deycart (Mar 21, 2012)

If you look at the UK sight and click on the shipping info for international If you see royal mail it should be the same.


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## Dakkar (Feb 14, 2013)

It looks like The Bay has come up with yet another devious way to give it to buyers and sellers in the backside. I've been a seller on it for about 10 years and at this point, there's not much that can shock me. My international sales these days are pretty infrequent and small items and I don't process postage through PayPal/eBay. I just charge a flat rate, ship 1st Class Int'l from the Post Office. I charge the buyer about half my estimated shipping cost and let it be at that. If eBay's going to start hiding my listings to folks outside the states, whatever. I'm phasing out the whole mess anyway.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

I'm certain that Ebay has taken on UPS, Fed-Ex, or some other carrier as a 'partner', and in exchange for this exclusivity, Ebay will benefit from another revenue stream. Cripes, aren't they making enough money already?
My major point here is that without the option of using the postal service, we'll all get whacked with a customs charge,(call it what you will), for every international delivery.

For example, I purchased some extruded 80/20 aluminum recently, and the seller used UPS against my wishes. The UPS driver was at the door, wanting payment of $38… for "Brokerage Fees"..for a $102 dollar purchase! 
I should have refused the package, but I was really in need of the merchandise.

I get two or three packages a week from internet purchases. I can't justify any surreptitious surcharges.


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## GregInMaryland (Mar 11, 2010)

What I don't understand is that if import duties are due , shouldn't they be due no matter what the method of shipping? Why would shipping via the post office (USPS, Canada, British) be any different than shipping via FedEx, DHL, UPS, etc?

Greg


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Greg: I may not have been clear enough about this in the beginning. I make lots of purchases online from international shippers, and I always emphasize *USPS or Royal Mail* rather than UPS, Fed-Ex or other privately owned couriers. The reason for that is that the private carriers have ALWAYS charged me for duties, customs fees, handling, processing, or other bogus charges. The amount is not known in advance from these carriers, but it is on top of the usual normal shipping charge that the sellers charge me up front. It's a deal-breaker. I have never paid fees, customs, broker charges or other trumped-up fees from items delivered thru Canada Post from USPS or Royal Mail sources. Private carriers can slap whatever additional garnishment they want on a international package. All as explained in the first paragraph of the original post.

As an aside, this partially explains why some sellers refuse to deal with Canadian customers. How many international customers have told a UPS or FEd-Ex driver to shove it, when they're standing on the doorstep? The sneak surcharges hurt the shipper, who is on the hook for the delivery charge, though failed, and the refund to the disgruntled customer.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Here's a bit of follow-up:
Just today, I saw a plane that I was interested in buying, offered for sale in another country. It seems eBay expects you to press the [Commit to Buy] button, without disclosing whether there will be additional charges at the door when it is delivered. This is a plane offered by a seller that has already opted-in to the new policies.

So, in addition to the *mandatory* customs fees which I customarily never had to pay, eBay loads this charge directly onto the top of your PayPal checkout, and you can't even see it in advance 'til it's too late to back out. THEN, you may be liable for a double whammy at your front door, for those phony 'broker's fees' or handling.

*Soon, your Ebay purchase will cost you the final auction price plus shipping, as in the past, but also a customs charge up front tacked onto your Paypal transaction, PLUS an additional charge at your door!*

Yes, I understand, some people never purchase on eBay, some people never buy internationally, some never use PayPal. This thread is not for you. But if you are a serious collector, or someday wish to use eBay to liquidate your collection, there is a bumpy road ahead for us.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

*I gotta revive this thread one more time… and yes, I well understand that some people do not use eBay, or shop internationally. * While browsing the eBay listings, a few subtle, but important changes have occurred. First, my method of browsing for tools is buy a generic search for "Planes". The search results are listed globally, in order by the time the auction ends. Now, as of June, the national location of the listing is *no longer visible*.

Secondly, I do a search by "Canada Only" and I used to get a list of Canada ONLY plane auctions. That is no longer the case, if I click the CANADA ONLY box, it automatically defaults to 'International" listings. * I cannot browse Canada-Only listings anymore by choice! *

Thirdly, though as mentioned above in earlier posts, I used to specify USPS or Royal Mail to avoid customs charges or broker fees. I can no longer choose my carrier, and the "import fees" are being tacked on to *all *listings I see, which presumably eBay is putting in its own pocket. Here's a generic example, an auto part search by a person on eBay Canada sees a listing in California that he is interested in: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/MONROE-MA769-Rear-Shock-Absorber-/320959187000?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4abaa88838&vxp=mtr I cannot be sure you will see the listing as I see it, if you have an American account, but if I want to buy these parts, there is a $16 import charge on top of the shipping fee for me as a Canadian shopper, and comparable listings are as much as $25 for the same part.

This whole thing disturbs me more because the British listings for fine handtools have yielded some of the most fantastic buys I've ever found on eBay. This import charge will most likely be a deal-breaker for me in the future.


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## JJohnston (May 22, 2009)

My car insurance is up, my homeowner's insurance is up, my property tax is up, etc., etc., etc. They all say the same thing: the cost of doing business has gone up. So, I'm going into my boss' office Monday morning and announce that my cost of doing business has gone up, and I'm taking more pay.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

JJohnston: Is there a 3rd party between you and your insurance providers, or tax collectors?
The point of this thread is that eBay will shortly be taking its vigorish off the top of buyer's shipping payments, to which I feel it is not entitled. If you're not active in eBay, your point is moot.

We are all aware of insurance and tax increases.


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