# New Shop



## dstenson (Sep 27, 2008)

*Sketchup of Shop Layout*

Hi everyone, well, after almost 4 years of continuously fine tuning my crawlspace shop, with no access larger than 30ish inches, I'm moving into a home with a basement. You know what this means, more room for my shop! I'm going from roughly 90 square feet (seriously, it's that small), some of which is well under 6 feet tall (I'm 6'1") to somewhere in the area of 240 square feet. Next stop, two car garage…but lets not get ahead of ourselves. For this blog, I'm filling a shop that is roughly 240 sq feet. AND I even have a full size stairwell and door to access it! Truly amazing .

So I've spent a few hours in sketchup, working on the layout. I was able to find existing models for most of my tools, as well, there is the recent workbench from pop woodworking (there's my first project in the new shop) and a nice tool cabinet.

What do you guys think of the use of space? The tablesaw, jointer, planer(in the green swivel top cart/outfeed table), bandsaw and drill press will all be on wheels (as they are now in my crawlspace). But I want to move them as little as possible. The shopvac under the miter saw table will be hooked up for dust control to blast gates at most major machines.
Have I overlooked anything? 
You think things should be laid out differently? 
I really appreciate any and all feedback. 
And no, I don't actually have that many Bessey clamps…but maybe if I build it they will come .

here's a link to the sketchup file if you want to download it and check it out in full 3D goodness. http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=64a4b69fb2055e0034e052ab3a0e8988

Oh, and if any of you sketchup gurus can tell me how to get the file size of this model to be smaller, that would be great. I've removed all image "materials" from the model and used components instead of groups in most cases where an item is used repeatedly, and I've purged all unused layers and components but I'm still stuck with a 7 MB file.

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/mini?mid=64a4b69fb2055e0034e052ab3a0e8988


From New Shop Layout
thanks for any advice, take care.


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## pitchnsplinters (Dec 26, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *Sketchup of Shop Layout*
> 
> Hi everyone, well, after almost 4 years of continuously fine tuning my crawlspace shop, with no access larger than 30ish inches, I'm moving into a home with a basement. You know what this means, more room for my shop! I'm going from roughly 90 square feet (seriously, it's that small), some of which is well under 6 feet tall (I'm 6'1") to somewhere in the area of 240 square feet. Next stop, two car garage…but lets not get ahead of ourselves. For this blog, I'm filling a shop that is roughly 240 sq feet. AND I even have a full size stairwell and door to access it! Truly amazing .
> 
> ...


Nice detail. If I send you a sketch or two will you SU my shop? Great job. The real deal will be much more exciting.


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## Moai (Feb 9, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Sketchup of Shop Layout*
> 
> Hi everyone, well, after almost 4 years of continuously fine tuning my crawlspace shop, with no access larger than 30ish inches, I'm moving into a home with a basement. You know what this means, more room for my shop! I'm going from roughly 90 square feet (seriously, it's that small), some of which is well under 6 feet tall (I'm 6'1") to somewhere in the area of 240 square feet. Next stop, two car garage…but lets not get ahead of ourselves. For this blog, I'm filling a shop that is roughly 240 sq feet. AND I even have a full size stairwell and door to access it! Truly amazing .
> 
> ...


wow….that's a neat design! I had my shop EXACTLY distributed like your, the only thing is that I parked my truck over night where your mitter stand is, so mine was a removable Dewalt…...it works just fine, the light for the bench, enough room for long pieces at the table saw/jointer, nice Veritas Bevel up on the bench!


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## sharad (Dec 26, 2007)

dstenson said:


> *Sketchup of Shop Layout*
> 
> Hi everyone, well, after almost 4 years of continuously fine tuning my crawlspace shop, with no access larger than 30ish inches, I'm moving into a home with a basement. You know what this means, more room for my shop! I'm going from roughly 90 square feet (seriously, it's that small), some of which is well under 6 feet tall (I'm 6'1") to somewhere in the area of 240 square feet. Next stop, two car garage…but lets not get ahead of ourselves. For this blog, I'm filling a shop that is roughly 240 sq feet. AND I even have a full size stairwell and door to access it! Truly amazing .
> 
> ...


Congratulations, a very nicely laid out workshop. Wish I visit it once. Don't forget to keep a firstaid box!
Sharad


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## PG_Zac (Feb 14, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Sketchup of Shop Layout*
> 
> Hi everyone, well, after almost 4 years of continuously fine tuning my crawlspace shop, with no access larger than 30ish inches, I'm moving into a home with a basement. You know what this means, more room for my shop! I'm going from roughly 90 square feet (seriously, it's that small), some of which is well under 6 feet tall (I'm 6'1") to somewhere in the area of 240 square feet. Next stop, two car garage…but lets not get ahead of ourselves. For this blog, I'm filling a shop that is roughly 240 sq feet. AND I even have a full size stairwell and door to access it! Truly amazing .
> 
> ...


Devin, What version of SketchUp are you using? I had similar size problems when laying out my proposed shop, but I managed to reduce the file to less than 2MB.

I'll look at yours, and see what I can do, but let me know the version so I can send it back to you.


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## dstenson (Sep 27, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *Sketchup of Shop Layout*
> 
> Hi everyone, well, after almost 4 years of continuously fine tuning my crawlspace shop, with no access larger than 30ish inches, I'm moving into a home with a basement. You know what this means, more room for my shop! I'm going from roughly 90 square feet (seriously, it's that small), some of which is well under 6 feet tall (I'm 6'1") to somewhere in the area of 240 square feet. Next stop, two car garage…but lets not get ahead of ourselves. For this blog, I'm filling a shop that is roughly 240 sq feet. AND I even have a full size stairwell and door to access it! Truly amazing .
> 
> ...


Thanks everyone, 
bentlyj, thanks for the suggestions. I am hoping to keep the head of the lathe free for outboard turning, but your suggestion is definitely something I'll play with when I get into the actual space. I had planned to tuck the B/S in the corner, on wheels, and pull it out whenever I needed it, but I much prefer you placement along the wall, making it ready to go right away for almost all cuts I would need to make.

PB_Zac, I'm using version 7 (the free one), if you uncover ways to reduce the size I'd love to hear about them, thanks.

Devin.


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## PG_Zac (Feb 14, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Sketchup of Shop Layout*
> 
> Hi everyone, well, after almost 4 years of continuously fine tuning my crawlspace shop, with no access larger than 30ish inches, I'm moving into a home with a basement. You know what this means, more room for my shop! I'm going from roughly 90 square feet (seriously, it's that small), some of which is well under 6 feet tall (I'm 6'1") to somewhere in the area of 240 square feet. Next stop, two car garage…but lets not get ahead of ourselves. For this blog, I'm filling a shop that is roughly 240 sq feet. AND I even have a full size stairwell and door to access it! Truly amazing .
> 
> ...


Devin, DaveR is absolutely correct. The major size problem comes from the downloaded components.

I've been fiddling in your file, and have found precisely what DaveR refers to.
The pegboard is about 1.2 MB, the Arts & Crafts Tool Cabinet is about 1.1 MB, the Planer and Table Saw are each about 1/5 MB, etc. etc. etc.

You should go into each downloaded component and analyze it for efficiency of the file size. For example, the main work bench's laminated top is made of multiple groups instead of a few components. The 4 legs are a confusing combination of components and nested components, instead of a single component flipped to suit the location. etc. I've dealt with this twin screw vice before, and it is waaaay to data-heavy - the screws are multiple nested components, the Handles are multiple groups instead of components etc.

One significant space saver I have found, is making holes into components. Just think, in one pegboard tile, you can create ONE component to replace 144 holes. I have done this on all the machines I downloaded, and saved a ton of file size. For many people, making objects into components is obvious, but making holes and voids into components doesn't even get considered.

You could also save space on the handscrew clamps. Make a component out of a jaw and a screw, then flip them and move the new screw to a good position.

If I get a chance tonight, I'll revise a few of your components and send them back to you. PM me your mail address if you don't mind.

p.s. Even though he didn't know it until now, I credit DaveR with a lot of my SketchUp ability - especially when it is on matters of file size. When I was having size issues, I Googled a lot looking for help, and Dave's posts, blogs, and replies to others set me on the right path. Dave's skill at explaining cleared my thinking better than any other resource I found on the net. Thanks Dave.


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## Pie (Jan 28, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Sketchup of Shop Layout*
> 
> Hi everyone, well, after almost 4 years of continuously fine tuning my crawlspace shop, with no access larger than 30ish inches, I'm moving into a home with a basement. You know what this means, more room for my shop! I'm going from roughly 90 square feet (seriously, it's that small), some of which is well under 6 feet tall (I'm 6'1") to somewhere in the area of 240 square feet. Next stop, two car garage…but lets not get ahead of ourselves. For this blog, I'm filling a shop that is roughly 240 sq feet. AND I even have a full size stairwell and door to access it! Truly amazing .
> 
> ...


Excellent layout with a few exceptions (but this is only my opinion).

1. Seems like you have lots of junk collectors (err I mean workbenches).

2. I don't see many or any cabinets, drawers or places to hide stuff.

Very nice layout and sketchup. I should do that for my shop as well but it is only 13×15 or something like that. Still I will do it so I can learn SU.

NIce shop!


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## goggy (Jan 17, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Sketchup of Shop Layout*
> 
> Hi everyone, well, after almost 4 years of continuously fine tuning my crawlspace shop, with no access larger than 30ish inches, I'm moving into a home with a basement. You know what this means, more room for my shop! I'm going from roughly 90 square feet (seriously, it's that small), some of which is well under 6 feet tall (I'm 6'1") to somewhere in the area of 240 square feet. Next stop, two car garage…but lets not get ahead of ourselves. For this blog, I'm filling a shop that is roughly 240 sq feet. AND I even have a full size stairwell and door to access it! Truly amazing .
> 
> ...


Nice layout! I too have a basement shop and my layout is in its infancy. Consider an air filtration system! Also I've been eyeballing the PW workbench design also. Looks great!


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## dstenson (Sep 27, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *Sketchup of Shop Layout*
> 
> Hi everyone, well, after almost 4 years of continuously fine tuning my crawlspace shop, with no access larger than 30ish inches, I'm moving into a home with a basement. You know what this means, more room for my shop! I'm going from roughly 90 square feet (seriously, it's that small), some of which is well under 6 feet tall (I'm 6'1") to somewhere in the area of 240 square feet. Next stop, two car garage…but lets not get ahead of ourselves. For this blog, I'm filling a shop that is roughly 240 sq feet. AND I even have a full size stairwell and door to access it! Truly amazing .
> 
> ...


PG and Dave, thank you both, I'll definitely open up those downloaded components and see if I can reduce their complexity. I had read about the "group vs components" savings and the "images used for materials" and I thought I had stripped that down as much as I could. Sounds like I have to examine the components in more detail.

Pie, thanks for the feedback, I have the one large workbench (still have to build it) and the big long table/bench along the wall is really just for the chop saw support, it may end up being much less than I've drawn in order to make better use of the space. I haven't drawn them in, but I imagine there will be many drawers added, and I still have a couple empty spots on walls where I could put some more cabinets. thanks again, I appreciate the tips.

goggy, thanks, I actually do have a General Air filter that I will be hanging right above the table saw (I didn't add it to model though.

What a great community!
thanks everyone!


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## PG_Zac (Feb 14, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Sketchup of Shop Layout*
> 
> Hi everyone, well, after almost 4 years of continuously fine tuning my crawlspace shop, with no access larger than 30ish inches, I'm moving into a home with a basement. You know what this means, more room for my shop! I'm going from roughly 90 square feet (seriously, it's that small), some of which is well under 6 feet tall (I'm 6'1") to somewhere in the area of 240 square feet. Next stop, two car garage…but lets not get ahead of ourselves. For this blog, I'm filling a shop that is roughly 240 sq feet. AND I even have a full size stairwell and door to access it! Truly amazing .
> 
> ...


Devin, I fiddled a bit last night, and managed to reduce the file from 7.4 MB to 6.1 MB (17% reduction). I got most of this saving from the pegboard and workbench. I expect there won't be more than another 10-15% saving available without extensive time input.

The biggest single saving I made was to replace each pegboard tile with 144 mini-tile components. Make a component 1" square with a 1/4" hole in the center, and duplicate it 11 times across and down to make a 12" square tile. Instant diet!!!

Have fun


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## dstenson (Sep 27, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *Sketchup of Shop Layout*
> 
> Hi everyone, well, after almost 4 years of continuously fine tuning my crawlspace shop, with no access larger than 30ish inches, I'm moving into a home with a basement. You know what this means, more room for my shop! I'm going from roughly 90 square feet (seriously, it's that small), some of which is well under 6 feet tall (I'm 6'1") to somewhere in the area of 240 square feet. Next stop, two car garage…but lets not get ahead of ourselves. For this blog, I'm filling a shop that is roughly 240 sq feet. AND I even have a full size stairwell and door to access it! Truly amazing .
> 
> ...


Hey PG, that's great advice, thank you. You're absolutely right that I hadn't even considered repeating voids as components. Makes sense. How were you able to see the individual component memory footprints? I am able to see the whole project size but haven't found a component size breakdown.

thanks again.


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## PG_Zac (Feb 14, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Sketchup of Shop Layout*
> 
> Hi everyone, well, after almost 4 years of continuously fine tuning my crawlspace shop, with no access larger than 30ish inches, I'm moving into a home with a basement. You know what this means, more room for my shop! I'm going from roughly 90 square feet (seriously, it's that small), some of which is well under 6 feet tall (I'm 6'1") to somewhere in the area of 240 square feet. Next stop, two car garage…but lets not get ahead of ourselves. For this blog, I'm filling a shop that is roughly 240 sq feet. AND I even have a full size stairwell and door to access it! Truly amazing .
> 
> ...


Devin, you're welcome.
Unfortunately I don't have or know of any easy way to check the KB footprint of anything within a model. I "make-do" by saving the file then deleting all the unwanted items, purging the model, and saving under a new name.

Low-tech, I know, but it works.

BTW, I have a plug-in that applies X-Ray view to any item you select, so it's easy to have transparent walls (or anything else) without setting a transparent material for the wall. I think it's kinda cool, and looking at your model, I think you'll appreciate it as well.


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## JohnnyVee (Feb 4, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Sketchup of Shop Layout*
> 
> Hi everyone, well, after almost 4 years of continuously fine tuning my crawlspace shop, with no access larger than 30ish inches, I'm moving into a home with a basement. You know what this means, more room for my shop! I'm going from roughly 90 square feet (seriously, it's that small), some of which is well under 6 feet tall (I'm 6'1") to somewhere in the area of 240 square feet. Next stop, two car garage…but lets not get ahead of ourselves. For this blog, I'm filling a shop that is roughly 240 sq feet. AND I even have a full size stairwell and door to access it! Truly amazing .
> 
> ...


Hey Devin

Anything new on the new shop? Have you already gotten into the new place?


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## JohnnyVee (Feb 4, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Sketchup of Shop Layout*
> 
> Hi everyone, well, after almost 4 years of continuously fine tuning my crawlspace shop, with no access larger than 30ish inches, I'm moving into a home with a basement. You know what this means, more room for my shop! I'm going from roughly 90 square feet (seriously, it's that small), some of which is well under 6 feet tall (I'm 6'1") to somewhere in the area of 240 square feet. Next stop, two car garage…but lets not get ahead of ourselves. For this blog, I'm filling a shop that is roughly 240 sq feet. AND I even have a full size stairwell and door to access it! Truly amazing .
> 
> ...


Devin

Any news on the new shop?


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Sketchup of Shop Layout*
> 
> Hi everyone, well, after almost 4 years of continuously fine tuning my crawlspace shop, with no access larger than 30ish inches, I'm moving into a home with a basement. You know what this means, more room for my shop! I'm going from roughly 90 square feet (seriously, it's that small), some of which is well under 6 feet tall (I'm 6'1") to somewhere in the area of 240 square feet. Next stop, two car garage…but lets not get ahead of ourselves. For this blog, I'm filling a shop that is roughly 240 sq feet. AND I even have a full size stairwell and door to access it! Truly amazing .
> 
> ...


Devin, your shop plan looks real good, but it looks to me like you might have some outfeed problems with your bandsaw and drillpress. I have a small shop too, about 200sq ft. and it's really hard to sweep the floor around machines. I have mounted just about everything on wheels to facilitate cleaning and flexibility, even my drill press. Thought your sketchup plans were great. Hope you enjoy the real thing when it's finished.


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## dstenson (Sep 27, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *Sketchup of Shop Layout*
> 
> Hi everyone, well, after almost 4 years of continuously fine tuning my crawlspace shop, with no access larger than 30ish inches, I'm moving into a home with a basement. You know what this means, more room for my shop! I'm going from roughly 90 square feet (seriously, it's that small), some of which is well under 6 feet tall (I'm 6'1") to somewhere in the area of 240 square feet. Next stop, two car garage…but lets not get ahead of ourselves. For this blog, I'm filling a shop that is roughly 240 sq feet. AND I even have a full size stairwell and door to access it! Truly amazing .
> 
> ...


Hey John, news on the new shop is…nothing. We moved on April 11, there's was so much other work to do that the shop hasn't been so much as looked at. My tools are still disassembled and lying on the floor, my lumber is in a pile in the middle of the space…it's really, really sad. But, next weekend our carpets get replaced, which means we can finally unpack for real…then I can get started on assembling my man cave.

Mike, thanks for you comments, I have mobile bases for just about all my machines, my last shop was so incredibly small that I had to be able to wheel stuff around to use any machine.
I can't wait to be able to get started with putting my shop together…


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## dstenson (Sep 27, 2008)

*The space that will become the shop*

Well this post has been a while in coming…
We moved into the new townhouse back in May, I spent about a month painting (old place and the new), swapping out all the light fixtures, switches, plugs, taps, doors and even the kitchen cabinet doors, so the shop just had to wait.

Here's the space before we moved in.








Walking in the door









Looking to the right









All the way in, by the window, looking at the exit.

Then the move happened…by the time the movers got to moving my shop equipment and collection of wood, they had lost a lot of their finesse. They just dumped everything in the shop.
**Warning, the following few pictures are disturbing (at least they were to me…seriously, I felt a little sick seeing the contents of my once sacred man-cave littering the floor like so much trash)









Workbench top, drill press stand and other assorted shop bits









Table saw body, jointer base, chop saw, etc…









Pile of lumber, lathe, the top of my jointer just lying on the ground…the horror!

That's it for now.
Next, it's time to make sense of this chaos.
...thanks for reading


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## sbryan55 (Dec 8, 2007)

dstenson said:


> *The space that will become the shop*
> 
> Well this post has been a while in coming…
> We moved into the new townhouse back in May, I spent about a month painting (old place and the new), swapping out all the light fixtures, switches, plugs, taps, doors and even the kitchen cabinet doors, so the shop just had to wait.
> ...


Devin, I see a lot of potential in the space that you have available for your shop. Once you get it organized and get the "non-essential" stuff out of there you should be able to start making some sawdust.= and make some benches, shop cabinets and tools stands. The fun is just beginning!!


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## spanky46 (Feb 12, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *The space that will become the shop*
> 
> Well this post has been a while in coming…
> We moved into the new townhouse back in May, I spent about a month painting (old place and the new), swapping out all the light fixtures, switches, plugs, taps, doors and even the kitchen cabinet doors, so the shop just had to wait.
> ...


Ready- Get Set- GO!
Nice space! Looking forward to seeing it as a working shop!


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## Splinterman (Mar 13, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *The space that will become the shop*
> 
> Well this post has been a while in coming…
> We moved into the new townhouse back in May, I spent about a month painting (old place and the new), swapping out all the light fixtures, switches, plugs, taps, doors and even the kitchen cabinet doors, so the shop just had to wait.
> ...


Hey Devin,
You have more space then some of the LJ's and with a little planning, you should be able to turn that great area into a real fine shop.


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## sharad (Dec 26, 2007)

dstenson said:


> *The space that will become the shop*
> 
> Well this post has been a while in coming…
> We moved into the new townhouse back in May, I spent about a month painting (old place and the new), swapping out all the light fixtures, switches, plugs, taps, doors and even the kitchen cabinet doors, so the shop just had to wait.
> ...


Devin, what looks mess will be transformed into a well organised workshop from where many beautiful projects are going to come. Take enough time to plan for the best.
Sharad


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## huff (May 28, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *The space that will become the shop*
> 
> Well this post has been a while in coming…
> We moved into the new townhouse back in May, I spent about a month painting (old place and the new), swapping out all the light fixtures, switches, plugs, taps, doors and even the kitchen cabinet doors, so the shop just had to wait.
> ...


Devin, Looks like a great space to set up shop. I just downsized my shop and it took a while to set everything back up and find a final resting place for each tool, etc. It was actually fun though and a great time to re-inventory your treasures and get new ideas on how you want your shop to work for you. Good luck and we look forward to seeing it when you have it set up and running. Keep us posted.


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## BobMcK (Oct 14, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *The space that will become the shop*
> 
> Well this post has been a while in coming…
> We moved into the new townhouse back in May, I spent about a month painting (old place and the new), swapping out all the light fixtures, switches, plugs, taps, doors and even the kitchen cabinet doors, so the shop just had to wait.
> ...


Painting, light fixtures, plugs, taps, doors . . . Where are your priorities man?

b


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *The space that will become the shop*
> 
> Well this post has been a while in coming…
> We moved into the new townhouse back in May, I spent about a month painting (old place and the new), swapping out all the light fixtures, switches, plugs, taps, doors and even the kitchen cabinet doors, so the shop just had to wait.
> ...


look forward to the finished project


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## dstenson (Sep 27, 2008)

*Assembling and initial test of the layout (and a couple surprises)*

Time to start assembling the machines and getting all non-shop stuff out of my space.

















The wood pile is getting sorted, time to get the rack set up









Much better now that it's just wood shop tools









Even from this angle, clutter, but manageable









Wood rack's up, now I really have space to move things around

*The "Dry Fit"*
I've already done a pretty comprehensive sketchup model (first blog in this series), but now that we've moved in it's time to see how the space feels with the tools in place (roughly). So I finished assembling the machines, and wherever possible I set up the different stations. In some cases using sawhorses in place of the eventual built in benches (just to get things to the right height). In other cases, equipment just sat on the floor.

All in all, it did give me a very good sense of the feel of the space. One thing I discovered was that I was not going to be able to have my table saw and my jointer run beside each other (like Jim Tolpin's setup). I just didn't have enough room to do that comfortably. So the jointer will go up against South wall, and the sheet goods will move to the West wall.

This exercise also helped me realise where I need to put my air exchanger. Originally I had planned to put it above the table saw. After reading some books on setting up a shop (Sandor Nagyszalanczy's is a very good book and full of ideas for your shop) I learned that it is probably better to have the air filter along a wall, to create a circular flow of air to carry the fine lingering dust into the filter. I didn't think I'd have the ceiling space to do this. Turns out after the test set up, that there was a space along the North wall that was out of the way enough. So when I set up for real, that's where the air filter will go.

*Full Stop…surprise!*
At this point I'm thinking that I'm just hours away from setting up the shop for real…add a couple built-ins, and start making some sawdust.
Then…my first surprise, there's no insulation between the basement and the floor above. 
A quick test confirms my fear, the noise in the living room above the shop is deafening. I'm going to need to pull down the current ceiling and add very good insulation. 
This wasn't planned for, nor was it in the budget. After a couple days of pondering I realise that even if it meant dipping into savings or RRSPs, my shop has to be made usable.

Then another surprise, the carpet in this space was going to have to come out. It's almost an indoor/outdoor carpet so I was going to leave it, but it turns out to be rotting from some previous water problems and there's mildew, as well, it has definitely been home to some pet accidents from the previous tenants.

I really wish I'd known about these things before we moved in…this space was empty for 3 weeks, that would have been the perfect time to do it…now with all my equipment in there? Well, let's just say I've "moved" my shop about 6 or 7 times this last month.

First job, rip up the carpet and underlay. Next I pulled down the ceiling tiles, and the 1×2s that were serving as strapping for the tiles. 
Here's a couple shots of the space with my tools roughly laid out and the ceiling ready for insulating.


















The drum sander will serve as outfeed support for the table saw.










During the ceiling tile removal I uncovered another little surprise.


















I do some more reading about soundproofing (or at least lowering the amount of sound transfer), and I learn that obviously just doing the ceiling above my tools isn't enough if I've got uninsulated walls that lead to rooms with uninsulated ceilings…sound will travel (quite effectively) along this path and eventually end up in the upstairs of the house. 
Essentially, the solution is to create an enclosed space that is as insulated as I can make it. This means two sections of the South wall will have to be ripped down and insulated. As well I'll have to install a solid core door in the entrance. When this is all done, if the sound transfer is still to high, I'm going to try another layer of drywall along with this material called "green glue". That's the best I can realistically do, I'm not going to create a series of floating interior walls, this will just have to be enough.

That's it for now…next up, insulating and hanging drywall.
thanks for reading…


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## Mosoak (Jul 12, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Assembling and initial test of the layout (and a couple surprises)*
> 
> Time to start assembling the machines and getting all non-shop stuff out of my space.
> 
> ...


Devin, be sure to weigh the benefits of improved soundproofing with the cost and the lost storage space. I have a small shop like yours, and have had to take advantage of the space between the floor joists as much as possible. Also, you probably have this planned, but painting the paneling a light color and adding several flourescent lights will brighten up the shop tremendously.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *Assembling and initial test of the layout (and a couple surprises)*
> 
> Time to start assembling the machines and getting all non-shop stuff out of my space.
> 
> ...


looks like you got it together well done


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## PineInTheAsh (Jun 14, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Assembling and initial test of the layout (and a couple surprises)*
> 
> Time to start assembling the machines and getting all non-shop stuff out of my space.
> 
> ...


Devin,

I certainly congratulate and salute you.

You have some great stuff and I'm sure you're itchin' to get started.

I admire your energy and enthusiasm, I don't know if I would have gone through all that work.

All the best to you and yours.

Peter


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## ND2ELK (Jan 25, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *Assembling and initial test of the layout (and a couple surprises)*
> 
> Time to start assembling the machines and getting all non-shop stuff out of my space.
> 
> ...


Shop is coming along great! Thanks for posting.

God Bless
tom


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## Mario (Apr 23, 2007)

dstenson said:


> *Assembling and initial test of the layout (and a couple surprises)*
> 
> Time to start assembling the machines and getting all non-shop stuff out of my space.
> 
> ...


That is quite a nest. WOW. Was it in use?


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## dstenson (Sep 27, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *Assembling and initial test of the layout (and a couple surprises)*
> 
> Time to start assembling the machines and getting all non-shop stuff out of my space.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the comments guys, it has been a lot of work, it's getting closer every day. In the end, it will be worth it. A couple months of work for years of use, a good trade any day.
Mosoak - you're right, I do plan to paint the siding, and I have eight 4' fluorescent fixtures to install in two runs down the length of the shop. Between Sandor's book and the FWW article about lighting ("Workshop Solutions" collection, June 2008) this seems to be the best approach for my space, and my 40 year old eyes are starting to need the help anyway.
Mario - yeah that nest startled me for sure. I reached up to remove the panel and felt this crunch with my fingers, pulled the panel down and the next 4 or 5 second went kind of like this:
Wasps appeared to suddenly be flying around my arm.
The tile came away and I saw the nest
I ran to the door like a little girl.
Perhaps that was all in 1 or 2 seconds..it's a bit of a blur for me.
Turns out that the nest was dead, the wasps I saw "flying" were just falling.
I was very happy to see the nest was dead (from the relative safety of my half closed door to the shop!).


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Assembling and initial test of the layout (and a couple surprises)*
> 
> Time to start assembling the machines and getting all non-shop stuff out of my space.
> 
> ...


by the time you get thru this ,
even the wife will probably accept a little noise ,
as a reward for truckin' on .
however it looks more like a shop now ,
than a spare bedroom .


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## charlton (Jan 24, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Assembling and initial test of the layout (and a couple surprises)*
> 
> Time to start assembling the machines and getting all non-shop stuff out of my space.
> 
> ...


Man, I was recently freaked out by a bounch of hornets and the nest they made in my backyard. I would have had the same reaction as you if I saw something that massive.

There are people who collect these things. I'm sure they would love yours.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *Assembling and initial test of the layout (and a couple surprises)*
> 
> Time to start assembling the machines and getting all non-shop stuff out of my space.
> 
> ...


wow, sounds like this project is growing and growing - and just when you thought you were done with it…. aarrrgg! I hear ya though. but at least you know what needs to be done in order to get what you want. just a little step back, and a little more work to it. eventually it'll just be another little story in the path.


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## JohnnyVee (Feb 4, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Assembling and initial test of the layout (and a couple surprises)*
> 
> Time to start assembling the machines and getting all non-shop stuff out of my space.
> 
> ...


Devin

It is going to be great. I am in the middle of the same thing (pictures taken at every step) I plan to put some up soon. BTW, for the insulation if you haven't already done so, check out Roxul "Save 'n Sound" (available everywhere like HomeDespot, LumberWorld, etc). It is rock-wool designed to deaden noise and is much better than fibreglass and it improves the fire rating of the area (it's made from basalt so it doesn't really burn). It is very easy to work with and you don't itch afterwords. Just a thought.

Cheers


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## cabinetmaster (Aug 28, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *Assembling and initial test of the layout (and a couple surprises)*
> 
> Time to start assembling the machines and getting all non-shop stuff out of my space.
> 
> ...


Lot of work but you'll love the results. Great job.


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## dstenson (Sep 27, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *Assembling and initial test of the layout (and a couple surprises)*
> 
> Time to start assembling the machines and getting all non-shop stuff out of my space.
> 
> ...


Hey John, the Roxul Safe 'n Sound is exactly what I used, double layer in the ceilings and single on stud walls. Although it is comprised of stone and wool, it still causes some itching. It's nowhere near as bad as classic fiberglass insulation, but I still had a number of irritated spots on my arms. Gloves, long sleeves, goggles and dust mask are a must. I went one step further and wore a cheap painter coverall suit (cheap paper product). There's a very noticeable layer of glass/stone like particles on everything now…so I've been vacuuming all the surfaces in the shop. Guess I should add another blog entry with the latest pics…


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## JohnnyVee (Feb 4, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Assembling and initial test of the layout (and a couple surprises)*
> 
> Time to start assembling the machines and getting all non-shop stuff out of my space.
> 
> ...


Good to know… I just bought the bats for the ceiling (24" centres) and will be getting the wall bats (16" OC) this weekend. Why did you double it up? I thought you were supposed to leave some air space between it and the floor above.


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## JohnnyVee (Feb 4, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Assembling and initial test of the layout (and a couple surprises)*
> 
> Time to start assembling the machines and getting all non-shop stuff out of my space.
> 
> ...


You know, I should recite this "never should type when you're tired, never type when you're tired"... seems my previous comment would have my rafters stuffed with "bats" rather than "batts"... hmm, they can just join the ones in my belfry.


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## dstenson (Sep 27, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *Assembling and initial test of the layout (and a couple surprises)*
> 
> Time to start assembling the machines and getting all non-shop stuff out of my space.
> 
> ...


Even doubled up, I still have about 1.5 inches of space…and since the upstairs and the basement are both heated I don't have the temperature difference to worry about (like when insulating a vaulted ceiling). Bottom line, I wanted more density, of course I'll never know if it made a difference, it's not like I measured the sound before doubling and then after.


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## JohnnyVee (Feb 4, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Assembling and initial test of the layout (and a couple surprises)*
> 
> Time to start assembling the machines and getting all non-shop stuff out of my space.
> 
> ...


It appears you did the right thing. I need to get a good dust mask rig before I attempt mine. Still in the framing stage but drywall (on one side of the framing that is-I divided the basement) is next then the rock wool batts. How was it going into the ceiling? I heard a few nightmarish stories about installing it in between the joists (i.e. it slips out because of the weight, etc). Did you hold it in place with plastic sheeting or something else or did it just stay put?


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## dstenson (Sep 27, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *Assembling and initial test of the layout (and a couple surprises)*
> 
> Time to start assembling the machines and getting all non-shop stuff out of my space.
> 
> ...


Hey John, I had to cut my 24s in half to fit the joists in half the shop, the other half I used stock 16s. Both stayed put just fine on their own.


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## Beginningwoodworker (May 5, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *Assembling and initial test of the layout (and a couple surprises)*
> 
> Time to start assembling the machines and getting all non-shop stuff out of my space.
> 
> ...


Looks good.


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## dstenson (Sep 27, 2008)

*Insulation and drywall*

Well, it's been a while since I added to this blog and lots has been done.

I spent a day and a few evenings insulating the ceilings and walls. I used Roxul's Safe 'n Sound, double layer on the ceiling and double layer on any 6" walls. Even though it's not fiberglass, it's still disgusting. I wore a good dust mask, eye protection, gloves and a disposable full painters suit. My ceiling joists in half the room were 12" on center so I had to cut the insulation in half. The air was thick with little bits of insulation for hours at a time and because it's summer and because of all the gear I was wearing, it was hot, sweaty work. I didn't like this job, can you tell? Just kept focusing on the shop. Short term annoyance, long term reward.









Ceiling and one of the walls









All the equipment and tools crammed into one half of the shop, so that I can hang the ceiling gyproc.









At some point, someone ran hot and cold water into this corner of the basement, but there's no drain…strange









More South side walls that needed insulating, ready for drywall.









Bathroom wall needed it too, I took this opportunity to remove the disgusting carpet from the bathroom

Once the insulation was up, it was time to hang the drywall. I just used 1/2 standard stuff, ten footers. Without anyone helping me, renting the lift was a no-brainer decision. $34 from HD for 24 hours…worth every single penny.









Some of the strategically located 10 footers…I'm still giddy that my shop is big enough to load 10 foot anything into it









The back saver, even if I'd had help, hanging drywall on a ceiling is no fun…this little device let me do it solo and it cost a tiny $34 for 24 hours









I mean really, how cool is that…I just measure, cut, crank the wheel and then screw it to the joists









Half the ceiling done, had to move all the shop stuff over to this side so that I can work on the other. I think that took as much time as hanging the drywall.









The lift, ready to be loaded for the second half of the room.









All done…I hope one layer is enough of a sound barrier

That "should" be the worst of the ugly work. From here on out it's benches, shelves, lighting, cabinets, electrical…relatively clean stuff, and certainly more enjoyable for me. I've been checking the used goods websites for a prehung solid core door 32"...nothing quite right in the last few weeks…I may end up making one, give me an excuse to make a solid fir frame and panel door right?

Thanks for reading…


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## ND2ELK (Jan 25, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *Insulation and drywall*
> 
> Well, it's been a while since I added to this blog and lots has been done.
> 
> ...


Your shop is really coming along. Isn't insullating fun! You should look at my Blog "Progress on the new shop" and see the fun I had. Thanks for posting.

God Bless
tom


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Insulation and drywall*
> 
> Well, it's been a while since I added to this blog and lots has been done.
> 
> ...


your up pretty late there tom…im hurtin tonight and sleep isnt coming easy…....hope the new shop is coming along….this shop is coming along really well….......


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## woodworm (Jul 27, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *Insulation and drywall*
> 
> Well, it's been a while since I added to this blog and lots has been done.
> 
> ...


Great effort. Looks very nice and comfortable.


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Insulation and drywall*
> 
> Well, it's been a while since I added to this blog and lots has been done.
> 
> ...


well done !
now for the fun stuff .


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *Insulation and drywall*
> 
> Well, it's been a while since I added to this blog and lots has been done.
> 
> ...


Coming along nicely. Can I make a suggestion for after you prepare your walls for painting? Make some sawdust. Go to the paint store and buy some paint the same color. It's usually an off white sort of light tan color. The walls, even with good dust collection will always have a thin film of dust on them especially behind tools like a table saw or miter saw. With the right paint it doesn't show till you go right up close to it. I did this in my shop. It definitely brightened the place up and made it look cleaner over time compared to the green it previously was.


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## toddc (Mar 6, 2007)

dstenson said:


> *Insulation and drywall*
> 
> Well, it's been a while since I added to this blog and lots has been done.
> 
> ...


The "birth" of another shop. It always brings a tear to my eye.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *Insulation and drywall*
> 
> Well, it's been a while since I added to this blog and lots has been done.
> 
> ...


looks like you've overcome the issues, and getting some great progress!


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## FrankoManini (Oct 10, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *Insulation and drywall*
> 
> Well, it's been a while since I added to this blog and lots has been done.
> 
> ...


I happen to know that you are REALLY far behind on this topic!


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## Beginningwoodworker (May 5, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *Insulation and drywall*
> 
> Well, it's been a while since I added to this blog and lots has been done.
> 
> ...


Going to be a nice shop.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

dstenson said:


> *Insulation and drywall*
> 
> Well, it's been a while since I added to this blog and lots has been done.
> 
> ...


Great progress


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## JohnnyVee (Feb 4, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Insulation and drywall*
> 
> Well, it's been a while since I added to this blog and lots has been done.
> 
> ...


Hey Devin

I haven't heard from you in a bit and the last you mentioned was the flood in your basement (after all that work, yikes!!). So where is the shop at now? Did you get it back together?

John


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## JohnnyVee (Feb 4, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Insulation and drywall*
> 
> Well, it's been a while since I added to this blog and lots has been done.
> 
> ...


Devin

What happened to all the pictures you had up?

John


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## JohnnyVee (Feb 4, 2009)

dstenson said:


> *Insulation and drywall*
> 
> Well, it's been a while since I added to this blog and lots has been done.
> 
> ...


Hey Devin

Have not heard from you in ages. You still following this forum?

John


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