# well it broke. now what?



## Juan_Eduardo (Jan 12, 2019)

I'm in the process of making and installing a handrail for the winding entry staircase in our 1912 victorian. I used 1.75" fir dowel stock and did a complete install using dowel screws and then took it out of the house whole to unscrew and do the glue-up/finishing. Should have been easy…

Well, it fell off the sawhorse and fully cracked along the grain in the under-easing segment. I tried to glue/screw it back together, but couldn't get a good clamp/adherence because of the awkwardness of the joint and it came apart again during finishing.

Now my aim is to install it and then try and rejoin the thing together and I'm hoping somebody out there has suggestions on the best techniques/materials to use to do this. Here's a pick of how it sits when the two pieces are reinstalled:









Some issues:

-The handrail has three separate bends, not including the returns, so any major movement or trimming is problematic, as it will create cascade effects for the rest of the handrails positioning. Here's a pic:









-The joint is likely to be under a fair amount of torque, just to fit where it needs to fit

-The area of the break is quite rough, and because it's through an easing, removing significant amounts of material can screw up the angles

-the area has glue residue all over it from my previous fix attempts, but I'm not sure how to remove it easily without removing lots of material. Here's an image of both edges:









-There is a remaining dowel screw in one end, which I'm doubtful I can or should remove

I guess the real question is how can I adhere/attach the two sides so that they'll hold? Titebond II and screws haven't done the job and I'm scared of splitting the wood that's left if I use hardware. I'm not super worried about appearance, because I'd like the handrail to have a "worn" look, but I'd like it to appear somewhat professional.


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## OnhillWW (Jan 10, 2015)

The original screws were too fat and had nowhere near enough engagement with the 2nd piece. I would back the screws out. Get a rotary tool such as a Dremel and install a SS wire brush or a stiff SS toothbrush like brush ( used for cleaning guns). Then with the brush working in or with the direction of the grain remove as much old glue as you can while best preserving the profiles of the fractured mating ends ( glue will not stick to glue). Stop once you have become totally bored with the process, i.e. you probably still have some glue there but the more raw wood to raw wood contact the better. Get a pair of #6 or #8 screws that will reach an inch or better into the 2nd half of the joint. Temporarily rejoin the two split halves again via clamps, tape, indentured servants…whatever and drill two appropriately sized pilot holes for the screws you have selected. You can install temporary blocks onto each half , these will allow you to better position and tighten your clamps) Disassemble and in the left hand piece enlarge the hole diameters to allow the screws to just pass through with no to minimal contact with the hole. This will ensure that the screw will pull the two halves together when tightening. I'd use epoxy because it will fill voids. Tape off the exterior prior to gluing, and thicken the epoxy to reduce sag and run out ( Google how to ). Now with everything ready and something on the floor to catch drips cross your fingers and do the deed. Good luck - it isn't going be easy but its doable.


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## OnhillWW (Jan 10, 2015)

Also, If you add a couple of additional handrail brackets close to and either side of the joint they will each bear some of the load that the joint is trying to carry. It might help unload the joint making it last longer.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Your picture is too close to see how straight or curved the rail is beyond the break and what's the diameter is the hand rail. Is the hand rail round or does it have flat side? Where in the system is that piece located. Can't say I have a fix but next Zip Bolt may have an answer on connection option of rand rails. Their stuff is top notch.






http://zipbolt.com.au/


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## bilyo (May 20, 2015)

First. Let me commend you for succeeding as well as you have. Unfortunately, I think, due to the material you are using, it's small diameter, and the unfortunate grain direction, it was destined to fail. I don't think you have much of a chance of "fixing" this without the use of epoxy and a hefty spline or dowel through the joint. The screws are definitely the wrong choice and unless your existing screws have been backed out part way, they are too short to do the job any way. I'm not sure how you would cut a slot for a spline. But, for a dowel, I would use nothing smaller than a 1/2" hardwood (larger if you can) and drill starting on the right side of your first picture on an angle so that your dowel ends up parallel with the left side and in the center of the rail. You will likely have to purchase an extra long drill bit for this. Of course, make sure your broken pieces are lined up and tight together before you do this. Then, glue the whole thing together with epoxy and grind/sand the protruding dowel smooth and flush.

I know this is late advice, but if I were doing this I would have, first of all, used a sturdier material like oak and made the rail a larger diameter. Secondly, I think I would have considered making multiple straight sections with intentional "breaks" or gaps where you have bends. If I were going to do the bends, I would have made joints on either side with sloppy fit centered dowels to allow for alignment adjustments. Once everything was installed (dry fit) and aligned, I would remove and reassemble in sequence with epoxy glue at each doweled joint as I progressed. This process would eliminate the "fair amount of torque" you mentioned.

Good luck


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## Juan_Eduardo (Jan 12, 2019)

> The original screws were too fat and had nowhere near enough engagement with the 2nd piece. I would back the screws out. Get a rotary tool such as a Dremel and install a SS wire brush or a stiff SS toothbrush like brush ( used for cleaning guns). Then with the brush working in or with the direction of the grain remove as much old glue as you can while best preserving the profiles of the fractured mating ends ( glue will not stick to glue). Stop once you have become totally bored with the process, i.e. you probably still have some glue there but the more raw wood to raw wood contact the better. Get a pair of #6 or #8 screws that will reach an inch or better into the 2nd half of the joint. Temporarily rejoin the two split halves again via clamps, tape, indentured servants…whatever and drill two appropriately sized pilot holes for the screws you have selected. You can install temporary blocks onto each half , these will allow you to better position and tighten your clamps) Disassemble and in the left hand piece enlarge the hole diameters to allow the screws to just pass through with no to minimal contact with the hole. This will ensure that the screw will pull the two halves together when tightening. I d use epoxy because it will fill voids. Tape off the exterior prior to gluing, and thicken the epoxy to reduce sag and run out ( Google how to ). Now with everything ready and something on the floor to catch drips cross your fingers and do the deed. Good luck - it isn t going be easy but its doable.
> 
> - OnhillWW


Thanks much for the input. I did use the "temporary block" method to try and join these pieces, but the results just weren't strong enough. I think you're right that I could have better results with epoxy. Do you have one you'd recommend? The only one I've used is primarily for filling…

The two vertical screws you see in the picture are 1.5" #8 screws. The railing stick is only 1.75" diameter. Maybe I could use longer screws and then back them out when the epoxy has cured? Not sure if what's left would be strong enough…


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## Juan_Eduardo (Jan 12, 2019)

> Your picture is too close to see how straight or curved the rail is beyond the break and what s the diameter is the hand rail. Is the hand rail round or does it have flat side? Where in the system is that piece located. Can t say I have a fix but next Zip Bolt may have an answer on connection option of rand rails. Their stuff is top notch.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry for the lack of perspective… The stock is full round and 1.75" diameter. The broken portion is an under-easing immediately uphill from the 90 degree bend.


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## Juan_Eduardo (Jan 12, 2019)

> First. Let me commend you for succeeding as well as you have. Unfortunately, I think, due to the material you are using, it s small diameter, and the unfortunate grain direction, it was destined to fail. I don t think you have much of a chance of "fixing" this without the use of epoxy and a hefty spline or dowel through the joint. The screws are definitely the wrong choice and unless your existing screws have been backed out part way, they are too short to do the job any way. I m not sure how you would cut a slot for a spline. But, for a dowel, I would use nothing smaller than a 1/2" hardwood (larger if you can) and drill starting on the right side of your first picture on an angle so that your dowel ends up parallel with the left side and in the center of the rail. You will likely have to purchase an extra long drill bit for this. Of course, make sure your broken pieces are lined up and tight together before you do this. Then, glue the whole thing together with epoxy and grind/sand the protruding dowel smooth and flush.
> 
> I know this is late advice, but if I were doing this I would have, first of all, used a sturdier material like oak and made the rail a larger diameter. Secondly, I think I would have considered making multiple straight sections with intentional "breaks" or gaps where you have bends. If I were going to do the bends, I would have made joints on either side with sloppy fit centered dowels to allow for alignment adjustments. Once everything was installed (dry fit) and aligned, I would remove and reassemble in sequence with epoxy glue at each doweled joint as I progressed. This process would eliminate the "fair amount of torque" you mentioned.
> 
> ...


Bilyo: Thanks for the idea. Man if I could change one thing about my life for the last two weeks, believe me, I would have spent the dough for some oak… Like I just read, "cheap is expensive". Do you have an epoxy recommendation?


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

However you fix it…...Before you drive yourself into an OCD frenzy, cosmetically if no one can feel it no one will see it. Even if you have to scarf in something with some dark stained hardwood with some fake grain to stabilize it. As long as you can't feel it you're good.


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## Juan_Eduardo (Jan 12, 2019)

> for a dowel, I would use nothing smaller than a 1/2" hardwood (larger if you can) and drill starting on the right side of your first picture on an angle so that your dowel ends up parallel with the left side and in the center of the rail. You will likely have to purchase an extra long drill bit for this.
> - bilyo


Additionally, to make this work I'd have to remove the protruding dowel screw. Any idea how I could do this? Haven't been able to get a strong enough grip for the counter-clockwise torque required using plyers.


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## Juan_Eduardo (Jan 12, 2019)

> However you fix it…...Before you drive yourself into an OCD frenzy, cosmetically if no one can feel it no one will see it. Even if you have to scarf in something with some dark stained hardwood with some fake grain to stabilize it. As long as you can t feel it you re good.
> 
> - Andybb


Thanks Andy,

I'm an amature, so not even sure what you mean by "scarf in". Believe me, no OCD here. I just want to turn this thing from 2 pieces to one and have it stay that way!


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

+1 Clean old glue residue and use epoxy for next repair.

I would worry about the (end) grain direction on the rail section that broke?

Suggest to reinforce the hand rail with more than couple screws. Hand rails against a wall are seldom cherished from bottom. I would remove or drill out screws, then use trim router cut a slot in bottom of rail, and insert spline using 2-3 inches of 6-8mm BB plywood on each side of break. While not required with epoxy, if you want to use fasteners, fire a couple of brads from side through the spline to hold things as you wrap the joint with HD clear packing tape and wait for epoxy to cure. After 24 hours, remove tape, scrape/sand epoxy residue, and touch up finish. The resulting joint will be stronger than rest of wood.

Nice part about spline repair, is if you end up removing too much material while cleaning that impacts length, can cut bad section completely out of rail, and add back a filler piece supported by a longer spline into the undamaged wood. Use of scarf (diagonal cut) joint will help hide the replaced section.

Have had to repair broken hardwood stair hand rails myself several times (teenagers using them as monkey bars). Breaks were always due grain direction in rail similar looking to yours. Repairs were almost invisible from top, and all you could see from bottom was spline plywood edges and glue joint.

Best Luck.


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## Kazooman (Jan 20, 2013)

Impossible to know where this piece fits in the overall scheme of the handrail from the pictures. It looks Iike the piece to the left is straight and the on in the right enters the curve. If so, I would suggest cutting the left piece back to a good 90 degree crosscut and remaking the curved piece to connect how ever far up the line is required. Dowel the ends and be done.

Gluing that break will never be right.


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

Reach out to LJock "Jbay" that is what I suggest.
Good luck


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

One more option is to do what the commercial folks do on site - cut thin strips and bend them, glue and join them.

I'd grit my teeth, cut the piece out using the thinnest and straightest cut I could, then use it as my pattern, accounting for the kerf.

Another option is, add some functional (supporting) detail, after you glue it back together. Embed, say, a 1/8" thick by 1/2" brass piece extending around the bent piece into the straights (or at least part way. Great chisel practice and the satisfaction of solving a problem, permanently.

In either case, and as others pointed out you need screws more akin to deck screws, with undersized holes pre-drilled.


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## bilyo (May 20, 2015)

Having read all the above comments, I think I would do as kazooman suggest and cut out the broken section and splice in a new piece, Glue it in with epoxy and dowels. Like this:


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

A dowel would fix this, but not without removing the screws, or at least the middle one. The other 2 could be ground flush with a Dremel. They have to go because they will interfere with getting a good fit between the 2 pieces.

Make one of the dowel holes oversized, because precise alignment with the drill will be almost impossible. When you glue the assembly back together, stuff the oversized hole with thickened epoxy. I like wood flour, or sanding dust, for thickening. There should be enough epoxy that the void around the dowel is completely filled. Any squeeze-out can be dealt with later. I have used this method to repair broken stool and chair legs. It's easy and quick, and the oversize hole allows for wiggle and twisting to get the fit right.

Another way would be to run both ends of the joint through a dado, making a fairly deep (1") groove 3/8 to 1/2 wide. Cut a spline to fit and glue it in. But this would require removing both pieces of railing, and would be very awkward, and might lead to further breakage.

One possible approach to removing the broken screws: heat them up (very hot), until they scorch and even burn the surrounding wood. Will be much easier to remove then. But there is a slight risk of burning the house down.

Incidentally, I despise dowel screws. I think they create more problems than they solve.


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## Juan_Eduardo (Jan 12, 2019)

> A dowel would fix this, but not without removing the screws, or at least the middle one. The other 2 could be ground flush with a Dremel. They have to go because they will interfere with getting a good fit between the 2 pieces.
> 
> Make one of the dowel holes oversized, because precise alignment with the drill will be almost impossible. When you glue the assembly back together, stuff the oversized hole with thickened epoxy. I like wood flour, or sanding dust, for thickening. There should be enough epoxy that the void around the dowel is completely filled. Any squeeze-out can be dealt with later. I have used this method to repair broken stool and chair legs. It s easy and quick, and the oversize hole allows for wiggle and twisting to get the fit right.
> 
> ...


I think I'm going to go the dowel route as it's simplest and if it doesn't work out, I'm no worse off than I currently am.

Update: after some painful surgery, I was able to back out the dowel screw and the two wood screws. Here's a pic of how it sits now:









I've carefully dremeled out as much of the old wood glue as is practical. I think I have an idea of how I can get this thing clamped. My only real question that I can't figure out is what sort of epoxy to use here? Only epoxies I've used are the plastic types (usually found in syringe form) and filling epoxy (like PC Woody and similar). I would not have previously thought to use either for this kind of issue, so I'm a bit lost. Is there another product I'm not aware of?


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## WoodenDreams (Aug 23, 2018)

I was going to suggest installing a dowel with epoxy. After it's set, fill the exterior surface with epoxy, sand to smooth shape, stain or color the area and mark lines to match the grain, then poly the surface. The schematic shown appears to be the easier fix. Clamping could be down with a rubber strap


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

I would drill a 3/8" hole through one piece and into the other with around 1-1/2" depth in the second piece. Add JB weld epoxy and a 3/8" steel rod, embedded 1/4" and plugged with a wood plug. Let it sit for at least 24 hours clamped ; then refinish.


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## PCDub (Sep 24, 2017)

Been wondering which process Juan used and how this repair ended up …


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## Juan_Eduardo (Jan 12, 2019)

I ended up boring out the hole left by the dowel screw on each side and expanding it to 3/8". Using the existing holes meant that I could largely retain the proper "angle of attack" to keep the correct positioning on all 3 axes. Naturally this wasn't perfect, so some brute force was required after the repair to get the thing back into place on the brackets (this is why I'd mentioned the repair withstanding 'torque' in a previous post). I ended up using just a regular 5-minute epoxy, because I couldn't find anything with a longer set time in any of my local hardware stores. My biggest mistake was leaving my tape-off too flush, as I ended up trapping some little bits of painters tape within the joint, and because the epoxy was clear they were visible. Spent a fair amount of time with a pick digging them out…

I used a couple of small clamps for Y-axis pressure on the joint. For x-axis pressure I tried something that actually worked really great: hose clamps (https://www.grainger.com/product/2PA57?gclid=CjwKCAiAs8XiBRAGEiwAFyQ-eu-kY1-o9fo44eH0_KfwJ-KicAoHO-HFo2BPUg9BizSND6RnLpXJGxoCQxQQAvD_BwE&cm_mmc=PPC:+Google+PLA&ef_id=CjwKCAiAs8XiBRAGEiwAFyQ-eu-kY1-o9fo44eH0_KfwJ-KicAoHO-HFo2BPUg9BizSND6RnLpXJGxoCQxQQAvD_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!2966!3!281698275798!!!s!472324140663!)

I cranked them down nice and tight (over some painters tape) on opposite sides of the joint and had them face different directions, so that the screw for the left one was on the bottom and the screw for the right one was on the top. I then used a small trigger clamp between the two scews to provide diagonal pressure. This worked great and meant that I didn't have to do anything like "clamping blocks" that I'd have to remove and refinish later.

In the end, it looks okay. It was never supposed to look "good", as the idea was for it to look as old and beat-up as the house itself. Most people won't notice the break unless they are told it's there, though I will never be able to see anything else… Because of the hack way I had to remove material to make the fix flush with proper "hand feel", the stain didn't take as well for some reason.

All-in-all, I'd say I'm happy with the results of the first handrail I've ever done.

Lessons learned:
1. "cheap is expensive" - if I forked over the extra $150 to do this in oak, I'd have a better looking railing and saved myself many hours of hassle. 
2. Never ask for my wife's input on a project that is supposed to be "temporary".

Thanks to everyone for your help!!!

PS: I couldn't use some of the doweling methods suggested because of joining hardware upstream.


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## PCDub (Sep 24, 2017)

It looks great-thanks for following up!


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