# what do you use for blotch control?



## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

What do you use to condition prior to staining?I have heard a lot of praises on Charles Neil's Blotch control but it is way to expensive to have it shipped to Canada,the shipping alone is $22 ! the total for a quart of blotch control :$42.00.
Other than Charles Neil's blotch control and dewax/diluted *Shellac*,(sorry mr. Searl .lol) what do you use ? I used Minwax wood conditioner ,not too bad but I had to put 2-3 coats of it,not practical,Have some General sanding sealer but it's not really a pre-stain wood conditioner .
Do you have a personal favorite?your own recipe maybe?


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

In my case, the same finish becomes the sealer. Apply, sand, apply, sand. As far as staining goes, sorry, never use it because I love the natural look.


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## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

I understand what you are saying mr jinx but sometimes you need to stain wood like Poplar,pine ,they look too bland otherwise.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Probably the easiest and cheapest approach is to just use a washcoat of whatever finish you intend to top coat with. A washcoat is highly thinned, with varnish maybe 1/3 varnish, 2/3 thinner, a 1# shellac cut, 50/50 lacquer/thinner, or the 1/3-2/3 for water bornes (all thinning suggestions from Bob Flexner). I've used both shellac and varnish with good results.


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

True. The only time I stained soft wood was my pine tongue and groove ceiling. I thinned water base paint as stain, applied it and wiped with a rag and varnished over it after it dried… It turned out pretty good. All the grains are visible.


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## Bonka (Apr 13, 2012)

I am a fan of hide glue sizing. It is thinned hot hide glue one concocts in a glue pot such as a small crock pot. It is spread on the lumber and allowed to dry 24 hours. The lightly smooth it with #000 steel wool.
Water based products do not affect it unless one gets carried away and rub the stain/dye too hard into the piece.
As always test first. It is great on end grain.


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

I mix wall board compound, as used for taping up seams in drywall, mixed with water to the consistency of milk. Very thin. Apply one coat, with brush, like painting. After drying, sand it all off. Then apply stain and finish. I put about three or four extra coats of this on any end grain.


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

Maple seems to be the only hardwood that blotches for me. I've used Charles Neil's product with good results. However, Fred's method works just as well for me and far less expensive.

I will definitely try Jim's method on oak as a grain filler.


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## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

Jim's method seem to also work with water based dyes as well as oil based stains.
I have tried Fred's method so far ,it should also work as a toner if mixed with a stain,but never tried Jerry's hide glue idea.


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## Finisherman (May 3, 2013)

A wash coat of any finish will work, as long as it's thin enough. For a really blotchy wood, I'd likely mix a dye into some very thin finish to make a toner and then spray that onto the sealed surface. I haven't yet tried Charles Neil's blotch control but most of the reviews that I've read seem to be positive.


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

Shellac bullseye sealcoat thinned 3 parts denatured alcohol to 2 parts sealcoat. It is a pretty thin mixture, but it brushes on easily and works wonders to control blotching. It only takes one coat to seal the wood.


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## freddy1962 (Feb 27, 2014)

I'm with mrjinx. I never stain anything unless I am forced to by a client and that would be rare. I'm in the "if you want something to look like walnut" you use walnut camp. The actual finish is worked to fill and seal.


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## buildingmonkey (Mar 1, 2014)

When I built houses, used a tiny bit of sanding sealer with thinner to go over pine as it would be blotchy otherwise. If you sanded the pine, it didn't blotch.


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## Razorburne (Jul 7, 2014)

General Finishes does actually have a pre-stain conditioner-- I've used it on my last two projects in which I stained pine and it worked very well.

It is different than their "sanding sealer". They have one conditioner that is oil based and one that is water based. Go directly to their site and check it out. I've only had experience with the oil-based product.


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## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

> General Finishes does actually have a pre-stain conditioner-- I ve used it on my last two projects in which I stained pine and it worked very well.
> 
> It is different than their "sanding sealer". They have one conditioner that is oil based and one that is water based. Go directly to their site and check it out. I ve only had experience with the oil-based product.
> 
> - Razorburne


I'm now a big fan of their w/b products ,their W/B Sanding sealer is on my shopping list.


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## JeffP (Aug 4, 2014)

Trying to understand what these "sealer" products are doing.

As I understand the discussion we have a situation where one is applying relatively dark stain to some bare wood. Some parts of the wood soak up more stain and thus wind up darker than other areas…and some wood does this in an unpleasing fashion?

So these sealers combat that by soaking in to those same "more soak-ish" areas and hardening there…so when you apply the stain it is less prone to soaking into those "more soak-ish" areas.

Have I got this right?


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Pretty much, though I would have described it differently. The stain doesn't have to be dark, in fact just BLO will cause blotching on cherry (in the opinion of many).


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## shampeon (Jun 3, 2012)

JeffP: that's basically it. Though it doesn't just apply to stains. Even a regular clear finish will blotch due to different levels of absorption on certain woods like cherry, pine, and maple.


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## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

And I have heard,there are situations when the blotch control works against you by not uniformly blocking the surfaces and as a result you could you still get blotchy spots just not as dark,I have not experienced this myself but I can see it happen.

Another recipe for blotch control:
Shellac mixed with small amount of dye/diluted with 99%alcohol.


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## JeffP (Aug 4, 2014)

I find myself wondering if a sealer would actually be a BAD idea for something like curly or figured maple.

Seems like it would tend to reduce the visibility of the nice (and expensive) figuring in the wood?

If I paid for all that magnificent imperfection, I don't want to make it less noticeable in the finished piece.


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## AngieO (Jul 9, 2012)

I love Charles Neil's blotch control. That's the only thing I use. But shipping… yeah.. it costs.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Jeff, again you are correct. The same process that eliminates "blotch" also tones down the differences you may want to show up. I read a statement some time ago by one person who said: "one person's blotch is another person's grain", I'm very much in that camp and do not try to hide "blotching"....but I am clearly in the minority with that opinion, so efforts to hide blotch are sometimes called for.


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## JeffP (Aug 4, 2014)

Wow, I was right…twice in one day. Doesn't happen very often. You have to celebrate the little things in life.

BTW, Fred, I really like your signature. Got me to thinking. I think I'm gonna change my user name to "GlobalVillageIdiot".


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