# First set of lathe tools question



## ChrisGadway (Mar 7, 2016)

I am sure this question has been beaten many times. I'm trying to get the basics for turning a bowl for now. Without beating the brand issue which tools do I need to start with. Such as gouge and scraper and sizes.

Chris


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## dyfhid (Jun 4, 2015)

It's hard to talk lathe tools without talking brand. You can take what I say below, though, and tie it to any brand, really, they all make similar size and shape tools.

And, you only need a couple to start, as you say, a gouge and a scraper will get a lot of bowls done from pretty small to decent size, and give you great experience with the tools, informing your future choices.

Honestly, start with the best, then you don't have to buy twice! http://thompsonlathetools.com/

For a general, smallish bowl (say 12" or under), and all around useful tool for such, I would go for the 3/8" U Bowl Gouge with a 16" Handle With 3/8" Nose (or turn your own, but I like Thompson's handles.)

For a scraper, I'd probably get the 1" Scraper, or maybe the 1-1/4", with a 16" handle. You will have to shape it to your liking, but then you'll have a tool you need. If you don't like the idea of shaping your own, then I would highly recommend the Robert Sorby M2 HSS Extra Heavy Full Round Scraper

Yes, these will run you a couple hundred dollars or so for both from Thompson. Comparable Sorby tools will be anywhere from the same to about 20% less, Carter and Sons same to about 20% more.

You can, of course, go much cheaper, but I think you'd be really happy with the Thompsons, really about the best out there. I've heard the Carter and Sons are good, too, but I've never owned them.


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> Honestly, start with the best, then you don't have to buy twice!


I was the opposite.. I started out with, and still continue to use homemade tools that cost nothing but the time to make.

Cheers,
Brad


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## ChrisGadway (Mar 7, 2016)

So basically the scraper and bowl gouge are the only 2 I need to get started. So i take it that the scraper would be used to turn the block blank into the cylindrical shape to start the bowl?


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## jeffski1 (Nov 29, 2008)

Thompsons are very nice tools.I have his U and V shaped bowl gouges in the 1/2" size plus a 3/8" spindle gouge-Doug Thompson recommended these to start.I also have PSI's Benjamins Best bowl gouges/spindle gouges/scrapers.I like these also.The Thompsons hold an edge longer-less sharpening.You will have to buy or make handles for the Thompsons.I made mine-that was a fun project.I would recommend a 1" or more scraper that has some thickness to it-these will less likely chatter or vibrate.Check out Packard Woodworks line of tools-they are suppose to be nice also.Do you have a way to sharpen tools?.


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## ChrisGadway (Mar 7, 2016)

Have a bench grinder just have to get the. Correct stone for it.


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## cdaniels (Apr 16, 2014)

for bowls I mostly use my 1/2" thompson. You don't absolutely need a scraper but yes you should get one and make sure you have a parting tool or a skew to form your tenon properly for a good tight fit. I started out with a benjamins best set for cheap and used those for about the first year then started upgrading. I have a sorby 3/8 spindle gouge that is one of my fav tools and I have thompson bowl gouges from 3/8 up to 5/8 and lots of others. if all you're doing is bowls I say 1/2" bowl gouge and a parting tool or skew. brand really isn't a huge deal right off the get go, as long as you're set up good for sharpening you're set. any professional will tell you the cheapest tool sharpened properly will always be better than the most expensive tool sharpened poorly!


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## jeffski1 (Nov 29, 2008)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM4ak8ygzS4.Some info on scrapers.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkGN6ap4NJw.Some info on bowl gouges.Do not use a roughing gouge to turn the inside of a bowl-its unsafe and results in nasty catches.


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## jeffski1 (Nov 29, 2008)

I do believe you want a slow speed grinder-60 and 80 grit wheels to start-they come in different hardness-not sure what hardness to recommend.+1 on cdaniels post.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

I started with cheap tools, Benjamin's Best and Hurricane, from this perspective: 1) Try various tool sizes and shapes and figure out what I like 2) Grind away cheap tools while learning to sharpen

I haven't had the need or desire to upgrade. It's difficult for me as a hobbyist to justify 3-4x per tool cost. The wood certainly doesn't care. I recommend a set of bowl gouges and a set of scrapers. The scrapers can be ground to any shape. I have some for inside, outside, radiused (almost flat), round nose - they all have their place, and it isn't expensive to be able to try different things. Same thing with the gouges. A parting tool is always good to have, especially for chuck recesses/tenons/glue blocks, a spindle roughing gouge and skew aren't necessary but useful.

Get a wolverine/vari grind style jig for gouges, and an adjustable angle platform for scrapers. Keep a bowl of water around when rough shaping tools, dip them often to keep them cool - not needed for re-sharpening. I use a set of these hones to touch up between grinds, and they have many other uses. A 3500 rpm grinder can be used if that's what you have.


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## LeeMills (Nov 2, 2014)

JMHO

Scrapers are nice but I only use mine to clean up tool marks at the end for most turnings.
Packards are made by Hamlet and are a bit less than other "brand" tools. You do want a stout one to decrease vibration; they carry 1/2" thick up to 1" wide and 3/8" thick up to 1.5" wide.
Some use scrapers for most everything but you will notice that they also have a bandsaw to make the exterior round instead of starting with a half log (square ends). Myself, I would never use a scraper for roughing the exterior of a bowl, inside is a different matter.
http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=packard&Category_Code=tools-pkrd

You will need a parting tool no matter what you turn.

In bowl gouges there are two sizes, the UK spec and we will call the other the US spec. UK specs are about 1/8" larger diameter than US spec. UK spec would include Sorby, Hamlet, Crown, Ashley Iles; any made in the UK.
Even if you don't mix now it is important to remember for the future or you may wind up with two the same size (such as a UK 1/2 and a US 5/8). This size difference applies only to Bowl gouges and not Spindle gouges.

So I would suggest 4, a parting tool, a heavy duty scraper, a 5/8 and 1/2 US spec bowl gouge (or 1/2 and 3/8 UK). Two bowl gouges would allow different grinds for where you are working on the bowl.

I would also suggest a medium quality until you feel comfortable with turning.

Last item and maybe most important is a good face shield.

Spindle orientation turning requires different tools except for the parting tool.


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## soob (Feb 3, 2015)

I'd recommend getting cheaper HSS tools (like the "Hurricane" brand). If you have money left over, spend it on sharpening. The oneway jigs are a must-have, along with a good grinder wheel. You'll do far better with well-sharpened cheap tools than you will with dull or poorly ground expensive ones.


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## Bill7255 (Feb 23, 2012)

I first started with a set of 8 Windsor Design tools (Harbor Freight). They are cheap and HSS although not as good as Sorby HSS. They are only about $70. With this you get a parting tool, skews, roughing gouge. Great to learn to sharpen. I still use a couple today. I have the BB set of 3 bowl gouges, but not a fan. I think Thompson are the best and have his bowl gouges and 1" scrapers. I make my own handles and they are better than any wood handle tools you buy.


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## soob (Feb 3, 2015)

The Harbor Freight set doesn't include a bowl gouge, though. That caveat is important.

For what it's worth I have the set and use a lot of the tools. On bowls I do a lot of finishing cuts with a 1/2" harbor freight scraper turned on its side.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

I'm going to start out with spindle turning.
What's the difference between a roughing gouge and a bowl gouge?


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## SignWave (Feb 2, 2010)

I agree with OSU55.

Tools require sharpening, and sharpening is a skill. But it's skill that will serve you for the rest of your life. If you get value priced HSS tools, you'll sharpen more often, which will slow down your turning (not necessarily a bad thing for a beginner) but will also help you develop that skill. You'll also grind away a lot of steel, and IMHO I'd rather grind away the value priced HSS tools than the more expensive ones.

I think of turning tools as consumable items, rather than investments. I use them and resharpen them, and they end up as dust, eventually. With scrapers in particular, I have no qualms about reshaping the edge to address whatever shape I'm working at the moment. Or I'll change the bevel angle or the profile of the cutting edge on my skew chisels to solve a particular problem. They're tools to be used, and when they're too short, I'll get new ones.

Fortunately, there are a bunch of options that are affordable but quite usable. I'm thinking of the Benjamin's best/Hurricane price and quality range. My advise to a beginner is to start there.

I won't say that I don't wish I had a few Thompson's tools, and I CAN tell the difference between my Sorby gouge and my Benjamin's best gouge. But I don't think that's the best starting point for a beginner.

I haven't seen a set that make sense, and I wish that would change. They all have some tools that are usable, and some that will never get used. All of them seem slanted toward spindle turning. Not that it's a bad thing, I think you can learn a lot when turning in spindle orientation and having the work between centers just feels safer, especially for beginners. But that wasn't the question, so I'll stop the sales pitch 

Having said all that, for bowl turning, a couple bowl gouges and a couple of scrapers can take you a long way, plus you need a parting tool. I'd size the bowl gouges for the work, most likely 1/2" (OD) for medium sized bowls. I'd get two of the same model (really) and I'd grind each with a different angle so that you can use them with different curve profiles. For scrapers, you want beefy, but I'd rather have a small variety of scrapers with different shapes than a single all purpose one, so I'd go for middle of the road (1" to 1 1/4", and 5/16 to 3/8 thick).

And this is related to my suggestions for tools, but making multiple smaller to medium sized bowls will build your skill faster than making a few larger ones. You can make more in less time and for less money. And because they're smaller, you can turn them without the larger more expensive tools. And it's generally safer, although there are always trade-offs. Woodturning is about skill development, and the tools should support helping you develop your skills. As you build your skills, you'll be better able to justify larger work and more expensive tools.

Final point: There's more than one way of doing just about everything, and if you can do it safely and get the job done, then many approaches are valid. I offer my thoughts as opinions only.

Happy turning! It's a wonderful way to spend your time.


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## SignWave (Feb 2, 2010)

> I m going to start out with spindle turning.
> What s the difference between a roughing gouge and a bowl gouge?
> 
> - rwe2156


You'll find that there isn't a clear consensus on the names. But generally a bowl gouge has a deeper flute with a tighter radius, not always round shape (maybe elliptical). This affects the shape of the wings, and gets a bit complicated. It is usually made from round bar stock.

A roughing gouge (or a spindle roughing gouge) is usually made from a flat piece of steel that has been forged into a round shape, with a larger radius. They usually have been ground to a small-ish tang that goes into the handle. Everyone seems to start out with one of these, but they aren't high on my list. A digression, perhaps.

For starting out in spindle work, a round bar spindle gouge (not roughing gouge) is a very versatile tool. 3/8" for smaller work, and 1/2" as you get to larger work.


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

I would recommend getting a Packard Woodworks free catalog. They carry almost all brands of turning tools. You can shop for bargains from different places later to match your budget.

http://www.packardwoodworks.com

Really need to know about size bowls intend to turn lathe size. I do like the advice already given on getting a heavy duty scraper. That might be an over kill if turning on a midi or mini lathe so less thick scraper might serve you well. Same is true on bowl gouges a ¼" or 3/8" bowl gouge may serve you just as well. There is a difference between way UK & US measure and size bowl gouges. Can also find bowl gouges sold in MM like P&N tools. See chart for details;

http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Turning_Tools/Bowl_Gouges/bowl_gouges.html

Big thing to know about bowl gouges larger size 5/8" & above used for roughing out and ½" and below for finishing cuts. You'll find can turn entire bowl with just one size gouge too just keep it sharp!

Good luck with it!


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## LeeMills (Nov 2, 2014)

After consideration….. I remembered a video by Dennis White on bowl turning.
He was 80+ when produced and been a turner for 65+ years. A the start of the video he said (paraphrased) "The problem with turners these days they have too many tools" and proceeded to shake a 1/2" bowl gouge toward the camera. Anyway he proceeded to turn all bowls, pots, lidded vessels, finials, etc with the one 1/2" gouge.


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## ChrisGadway (Mar 7, 2016)

Thanks for all the responses. I have a better idea of what I'm looking for anyway. I'm gonna go with a cheaper set at first and gradually introduce some better steel.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

I just ordered a spindle gouge, roughing gouge, skew chisel, and parting tool from Penn State!


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

> "The problem with turners these days they have too many tools"


Some of the guys in my club seem to think the solution to get a perfect cut is to buy just one more tool. One guy showed me his accumulation of parting tools the other day … he has 7!

I found it interesting that, when doing a regular cut-rim bowl, David Ellsworth uses only two tools: a 3/8" spindle gouge to form the tenon and a 5/8" bowl gouge for everything else. He gets a better finish right off the tool than most of use get with sanding to 320-grit.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Finish off the tool has everything to do with who is holding the tool vs the brand name on the tool…..........


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

I have a pile of carbon steel tools that I've accumulated, a few carbides purchased or made, and a set of Hurricane HSS bowl gouges. The carbon steel are fine, they require sharpening more often but take a keen edge. I don't use them on very hard woods (e.g. ipe).


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## sepeck (Jul 15, 2012)

Go watch some of the earlier Capt Eddie videos. He's got some ways of making nice jigs for sharpening that won't kill your budget. And if you are turning you will run into these video's sooner or later.
https://www.youtube.com/user/capneddie
For example, this one: https://www.youtube.com/user/capneddie
There are others.

One thing he does say is practice.


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## ChrisGadway (Mar 7, 2016)

Ended up picking up the harbor freight 8 tool pack and I ordered a sorby 1/2 bowl gouge with the XL handle


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## ChrisGadway (Mar 7, 2016)

Probably gonna put the sorby aside for the first month or 2


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## SignWave (Feb 2, 2010)

Did you get the HSS version or the "triple tempered" version?


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## ChrisGadway (Mar 7, 2016)

Triple tempered version


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## Abter (Sep 6, 2016)

> What s the difference between a roughing gouge and a bowl gouge?


The most important difference is a roughing gouge is wide and relatively flat across the front. Its great for quickly removing a lot of wood turning between centers (i.e., a spindle). They are made out of thicker steel than regular spindle gouges to stand up to the hard jobs of rounding a square blank, and heavy-duty removing lots of wood. The flat face on a roughing gouge has sharp corners on the wings (left and right edges of cutting surface). The flat face with sharp corners mean that a roughing gouge *CANNOT* be used in making a bowl, especially on the inside of the bowl. If used in a bowl the roughing gouges' sharp edges are likely to create violent catches, damaging both the wood and the turner. The trend now is to call them spindle-roughing gouges, to try to remind folks to only use them on spindle work.

Bowl gouges have wings that curve back towards the handle. The business end comes in a variety of shapes, varying how "pointy" the gouge is, and how long and sweeping the wings are. This avoids having the any sharp edges. Bowl gouges are safe for working on spindles, although not as easy to create a flat or smoothly tapering profile as a spindle gouge. This is hardly surprising: a tool made for a specific job (say spindle work) will be better for that sort of work than a tool made for a different job. A baseball pitcher can play outfield, and an outfielder can pitch if necessary (teams start running out of players in long extra inning games, and have to cover all 9 positions somehow). But neither will be as effective when playing out of their natural position.

Like spindle work, you often need to get rid of a lot of wood when hollowing out the bowl, as well as when shaping the outside. The heavy work on a bowl can be done with a large and strong bowl gouge, such as a 1/2" or 5/8".

One way to think about the difference is a roughing gouge is a sturdy, overgrown spindle gouge. To get rid of lots of wood in a bowl, you need a sturdy, overgrown bowl gouge.


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