# Out of the box review and initial impressions.



## NBeener

Excellent first impression report.

I wish you the best-both with the long-term use and performance of the saw, AND with the occasional LJ who seems to derive energy from moaning about those who buy foreign-made products ;-)


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## dbhost

I am so glad I didn't have a mouth full of coffee when I read that…


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## HokieMojo

I still wish you could have found a radial arm saw. I could use a refurbishing buddy as I go through my own, but I'm glad you like what you got.


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## dbhost

No problem. Actually I have been busy on the house… But sometimes I am not where I can do work on the house, so I type these things up… BTW. I am about to go up and update this thing…

Hokie…

I even went on to CL today to look at RAS'... No joy… The ones that are out there that are near me anyway, are either REALLY beat up, missing major components and more work than I want to get in to, OR they are too small (7.25" / 8" models…). And yes CharlieL I know this thing is HF crap. But it is functional crap and that is what I need… When I can afford US made stuff, then I will toss this thing aside. Honestly, I like this thing better than anything I have seen from Skil as far as miter saws, or table saws go… But that's not saying much…


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## Gofor

Thank you for taking the time to do a review. I don't think any of us really expect top quality at bargain prices, but it is good to see the good/bad of a bargain tool. Some need it once, or for one project. Some cannot afford better. It is good to see what you really get for that price to help when times are tough and dollars are short.

Reviews of DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, etc are readily available on the internet. Not too many comparing B & D, Firestorm, HF, etc. but probably more people on this forum use those than the mid-range.

Good job

Go


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## ChuckC

Good luck with the saw. It probably wouldn't hold up to professional use but for the hobbyist it should be fine. I am curious to see how those roller bearings will do over time.


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## b2rtch

SAW ( sorry, I had to do it!) you finally got it.
As you write m for the price it cannot be beaten.
I am satisfied with my 10".
By the way you can find 20% discount coupon on the internet anytime you need one, just Google HF 20% off.
I really buy anything at HF with out 20% off coupon.


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## jbertelson

I suspect you will find a 12 inch miter saw, even though a cut below the best, better for you than a RAS. As noted before, you need portability, and that does not describe RAS's, which can be a little touchy when it comes to maintaining calibration. I look pretty closely at my RAS at least once a week, and pull out the square if necessary. And I can't remember the last time that RAS was moved even an inch. It works for me, but I don't need portability, and I am used to the old saw.

I am sure you will resolve the DC issues with it, just as I am doing with the TS. Has anyone tried to dust proof a RAS? That is next on my list. My RAS leaks entirely too much…......er…....chips. The dust is pretty well controlled, but it sends out surface chips, especially from plywood.

Thanks for the review. Babying my left wrist, as noted before…...no shop time today.

Jim


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## StumpyNubs

Jim Bertelson- The dust collection problem with a RAS is simple if you only use the arm in the 90 degree position. Just build a box behind it big enough for the blade carriage to fit inside when it's behind the fence and hook up a good dust collector. If you want angled cuts use jigs to position the board at the angle rather than moving the arm.

I use a RAS instead of a Miter saw because I have one and my grandfather was partial to one back when they were the only thing around. Maybe I'll go through mine with HokieMojo?

Hokie- What RAS do you have? Mine is a B&D/Dewalt Powershop from the early 70's before they started cheaping them out.


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## jbertelson

Thanks Jim Hamilton. I have actually already done that. I made it many years ago….......I used the central vacuuming system to collect the dust until I got my Delta DC system. But it still scatters chips, especially from plywood. But it is a marked improvement over no DC. So I think I will try to hook up some tubing to the DC attachment on the guard, and make acrylic side guards instead of using the cheap ones that it came with…...you can see the box just behind the red saw blade, and the inadequate lateral guards…...










.......I haven't made an angle jig for it yet, but I intend to do it. I also am attached to my saw, and love it as a 90 deg crosscut specialist. Note fence and stop I made for it. I do not measure for most crosscuts, just use the ruler and the stop. Really speeds things up and increases accuracy…...........here is the link to the fence description…......

http://lumberjocks.com/jbertelson/blog/11296

Thanks for stopping by, and thanks for your comments. Seems we think alike when it comes to RAS's

Jim


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## dbhost

You are right on that Barry, at least with certain tools. That is why when I got my clamps, I literally picked through the entire stack and grabbed only the ones that didn't have obvious defects.

I do seem to do fairly well with HF, but I totally understand that there are folks that get duds… I have had a few…

I don't know however that paying more for a particular brand name is going to guarantee you will get a top quality item right off the bad. Read the threads on Delta, Powermatic, and Laguna lately and all I have to say is at least Harbor Freight makes up for it with decent customer service…


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## StumpyNubs

Jim- I made my box so that the sides go all the way up to the fence and that made a difference, also the top goes all the way wut is hinged wo that it will rise if I raise the height of the saw arm. If the dust collector is on I get very few chips from the box alone. I don't even need a hose hooked to the dust gaurd like some people do.

I do admit I get some dust against the fence, but that's unavoidable unless you have a big gap where the blade passes through because all the chips fly from the bottom of the blade.

Looks like you have a Craftsman. maybe it's different from my Dewalt/B&D


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## jbertelson

Jim Hamilton

Hadn't even thought of moving the box closer to the fence, and a hinged top sounds good. I will do that first to see if that is all I have to do. I think I will make some acrylic guards, although the inside one may end up being a little skimpy.

Got to get the TS DC done first, it is a real problem, although already improved.

Thanks for the suggestions…......

Jim


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## dbhost

UPDATED 12/29/2010. I have pulled the OEM 12" blade, and inspected it. There is some very obvious flaws in this blade, that for some reason kept themselves behind the aluminum of the blade shroud when I looked at it originally. There are no less than 10 teeth where the carbide is, well simply not attached or ground right. I have replaced the blade with a Freud Diablo D1280XH 12" 80T blade and am as happy as can possibly be. The hatchet job finish of the cuts is smooth as butter. I am a bit amazed at some of the reviews that mentioned that the owners had trouble getting the blade guard on when swapping the blade. If you follow the procedure in the manual, it goes off and on very easily. I guess some folks lack mechanical aptitude or something…

No this isn't the new fancy Bosch. But it IS a far cry nicer than anything else in my price range… I just now need to get dust collection in it squared away and I will be set…


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## b2rtch

"I am a bit amazed at some of the reviews that mentioned that the owners had trouble getting the blade guard on when swapping the blade. If you follow the procedure in the manual, it goes off and on very easily. I guess some folks lack mechanical aptitude or something…" 
Remember I use a 10" and the design of the whole saw has been changed about 2 years ago. 
To change the blade with the new design is a piece of cake that was to the cake in the past.
I use a 60teeth blade and I too get nice cuts.


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## dbhost

That must have been some change! My blade replacement was a piece of cake! The manual for this thing is really easy to follow. Which is something I can NOT say for most HF products!

Which 60T blade are you using on yours?


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## b2rtch

I believe that the blade is a Ridgid or may be a Irwin, not sure.
Later I shall install a Freud or an Amana 80T


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## b2rtch

I checked and in fact I am using a Shark 60T blade. 
I bought these blades (like 20 of them both 10" and 71/4 ) on Amazon years ago. 
I am very happy with them. 
Their Japanese style hand saws have an excellent reputation as well as their Japanese style wooden planes.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=bl_sr_hi?_encoding=UTF8&node=228013&field-brandtextbin=Shark


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## dbhost

Never heard of Shark, but that's okay… Lots of stuff I haven't heard of out there. I know I am very happy with my Freud blades… But then again, I am also very happy with my Oshlun dado set…


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## Racer2007

dbhost, I just bought the same saw last weekend and it was floor model that the guy said he couldnt figure out how to get it back into the box so I got it for the same price. It didn't have the blade on it so he gave me a new 96 T blade they had on the shelf and I had no problem getting it installed on this model and it seems to cut very smooth so far but then I only made a couple of cuts on some scrap to check the setup which was actully very good. Just a minor adjustment to the fence to get it squared up and the 45 degree bevel was off a bit but thats a very easy adjustment.
I am going to make a few more test cuts today to check if a simple box with mitered corners will fit together with little or no tweaking required and seeif the blade they gave me is going to work or if I need to get a better one right away.
Did you get the laser readjusted to the right side for waste? if so what was the process for it , the manual dosen't say anything about adjusting it, and by the way my manual was almost useless with very poor instructions on adjusting the bevel or fence and nothing at all for the miter except "turn the tabel to the desired angle and it will lock".


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## dbhost

Manual? Oh yeah, there is one isn't there! Yeah I sort of gave up on HF manuals a while ago…. The process for squaring the fence is to simply loosen the fence assembly, move it to square, lock it down, run a test cut. The bevel stops are simple bolt / jam nut arrangements, adjust up to decrease the tilt, down to increase… Sorry, but these sorts of things tend to come fairly easily to me… I know not everyone has as easy of a time with it… Hopefully you will get it squared away soon…

Since my last update on this review, I have replaced the OEM blade with a Freud Diablo 80T Crosscutting blade. I considered the 96T, but opted for the 80T due to reviews, and am happy I did…


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## Blackie_

Bought mine a couple years ago,

Quote from dbhost
"Checking with various squares, and drafting triangles finds that the fence / blade etc… are all dialed dead in from the factory, and that the stops at 22.5, 30, and 45 degrees are exactly where they are supposed to be, and that he blade tilt measurements are where they are supposed to be. No adjustments to the fence, or anything of that nature was needed.

I wasn't so lucky mine is a couple of degrees off to the left of the center, and so I'm sure my angle cuts are off as well. This is one of the reasons I'm having second thoughts about the band saw and going with the grizzly.

"That blade. Now a low quality blade is NO surprise on any saw under $1,000.00. But just HOW bad this blade is will make your skin crawl. This thing relieves me permanently of ANY desire to EVER buy any bits or blades from Harbor Freight."

Same experience with saber saw blades, all they do is burn the wood from getting so hot and forget about cutting, this goes for any blades be it saw-all as well I will never purchase any blades from HF


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## dbhost

Blackie_ have you adjusted your stops? There are adjustments on the saw…

As far as the blade was concerned. I was in fear of a carbide tooth becoming a projectile, the brazing was VERY sloppy, and you could see bubbles / gaps in it… I think you are in Austin area. Too bad I wasn't closer, I'd see if I could square your SCMS up for you. I have a friend that has one that was a bit off out of the box, and I figured it out for him… Took a few tests to get it right but it's dead on now… I mean the zero degree. Like I mention in my original review, the left 45 degree stop was off a hair and needed adjustment…


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## nitrowood

Wow thanks for the in depth review. I actually have a DeWalt 7740 Radial Arm saw of which I don't have room for, so I am seriously considering getting one of these HF saws. Simply because I don't have 500+ dlrs to spend on a name brand saw.


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## b2rtch

One thing you have to be careful about with these saws is that you cannot get parts for them.
I had tow of them , they worked very well but twice I had the replace the blade protectors and I never was able to get a replacement. 
Buy the extended warranty, if you have an issue they will replace the whole saw.


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## nitrowood

Do they extend the length of the warranty every time you exchange the saw? That would be great to get a new saw every 1 year and 11 months or so.


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## dbhost

If room is an issue, and budget isn't such a concern, you may want to look at the Hitachi 12" slider, or the Bosch 12" glider… This type of saw is REALLY big…


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## b2rtch

I bought the Makita LS1610 and I am very happy with


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## Kentuk55

Thnx for your detailed over a period/s of time review of this machine.


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