# Stanley Bailey no. 4 smoothing plane



## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Would like any positive or negative opinions about my recent plane purchase. Please don't hesitate to be brutally honest ! (I'm not a sensitive soul)

I have been reading about the various plane makes. I needed a decent smoother, but wasn't willing to buy anything I would have to import to Norway due to the price doubling with the cost of transport and import duties. That left only three choices, Ananti, Stanley Handyman, and Stanley Bailey.

I chose the least of three evils and bought the Stanley Bailey. I paid about $119 for this plane. I know, I know, it probably costs about half that in the States or the U.k. So far I have only looked at it, but have found the sides to be square, and the mouth is a perfect 90 degree angle to the sides. On the minus side, it has plastic totes, which are going to turn into wood PDQ. I do intend to fully tune this plane up before I take it into use, including lapping the sole, smoothing the frog top and bottom, smoothing the bed, and flattening the chipbreaker edge. Did I forget anything?

I thought it might be fun to write a blog on the tuning and tote changing so we can see if the result makes it a plane worth having (against all the odds). Looking forward to your comments.


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## marcb (May 5, 2008)

The modern stanleys (ignoring the new premium stuff they recently released) take some tweaking but will get OK results in the end.

Ultimitly you have to make decisions based on what is availible where you w
are.

You have a good plan of attack. Google David Charlesworth Somewhere there is posted an article by him which details how he tweaks out planes for use.

If the sides are square the mouth tight and the sole flatish thats 1/2 the battle. The frog seating and the blade seating are the only things left.

The tote and knob are projects for when you have time as they don't affect the cut, just the feel in the hand and durability.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Hey stefang
I don't know about in your are but in the states I think I would buy a used stanley on e bay were a #4 stanley
in very good condition goes for $25-$45 plus shipping.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

I bought this more recent Stanley #5 for ~ $20 in the US. Shipping to the UK might be ~ $20 on a #4, and there are many very nice examples in the $25-$50 range on Ebay.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Thanks guys for what would normally be sound advice, but in addition to freight, I would have to pay high import duties even though it's used. So I would wind up with a similar plane three or four weeks later at still a high price and it wouldn't necessarily be in good condition. Any comments on the quality or lack thereof of the Stanley Bailey line?


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## SST (Nov 30, 2006)

I own a number of Stanley planes. All older ones and all but my dad's original 2 were bought on ebay or at flea markets for between $5. and $90.
I find them to be all I'll ever need and they have needed only minimal tuning to get them right. My absolute favorite in a Stanley Gage #4 self setting plane. It just whispers through the cuts.
The bedrock #4 is next. Why spend twice as much for a Lie-Nielsen when it's a copy of the bedrock? Yes, they're prettier, but I don't think they work any better, and I like the trade-off of having a piece 75-100 year old woodworking history over pretty. (Just my opinion, Lie-Nielsen fans…don't send me any nasty notes)
My old Millers Falls low angle block plane, 56b, is great as well. 
I know this got off track, I tend to ramble at times.
Please keep us posted on the tuning process & handles. -SST


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

I would love to own a high quality plane like LN or Veritas, but I always weight what I expect to get out of it against the cost. Why buy a Lexus when Honda is good enough? I'm only using it for small projects. I have a Stanley #5 which I bought about 30 years ago, but my smoother has been an Ananti which I picked up super cheap and tuned. It's not as bad as you might think, but not a good as you might hope, so therefore the new Stanley Bailey. I also have a stanley block plane which I really love. It does about everything I want it to. I am hoping the new plane will be a step up from the Ananti. I wish I could take advantage of EBay, but I don't get the price advantages like you guys do. (see my comments above).


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## Moai (Feb 9, 2009)

Stefang…
$119 for a #4 seems to be VERY HIGH to me. I would gladly help you to find a plane if you can take that one back.
I recently bought a chanfer (Stanley #72) in Europe, chiping costs were $45 USD, so I underestand how high shipping charges could be when buying overseas.
I totally agree with the Toyota's comparison, but Lie Nielsen and Veritas Planes are an excellent place to put money…..I'm an Ebay trader and this tools are simply "cash"!

Stanley planes are great planes, I buy and sale from 1910 pattent -Sweet Heart- and oldies. isa very decent tool, works perfectly and doen't need extreme tunnings if it's not going to be used to build a Table for Isaac Newton.

I like also RECORD planes, in my opinion (mine!) they are better planes than Stanley's, plus UK is closer to your place.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

While all you plane experts are online, what is your opinion of a Stanley #7C?


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## Moai (Feb 9, 2009)

Topamax,
Excellent plane, very versatile for many tasks….When a "Back bevel" is applied to the back of the iron, works good with figured grain. I preffer that "C" over the "flat" one, much nicer in my opinion, again I like 1910 and oldies

and yes, I'm another slave.


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## degoose (Mar 20, 2009)

I have an old Pope no4 and after much tuning works nicely for me. Not is the same league a LN or Veritas but for me it OK.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Like Moai, I'm also a fan of the Record planes, and have actually bought a few and had them shipped from England. Check Ebay UK…


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

I feel as though I live on a different planet than all you guys. Thank you for your offer Moai, but I think I will keep this one. I would have preferred a record plane which I understand is a cut above the Stanley Bailey, but they aren't sold here in Norway. I tried searching the Norwegian websites and couldn't find anything except Stanley. With a population of a little over 4 million people there isn't much of a market here.

I had an interesting experience a few years ago. I was in a store that catered to hobby woodworkers (gone now). and I saw a cardboard box filled with older stanley no. 4 planes. I thought maybe they were being sold cheap or something, and eagerly asked if I could buy one. They told me they had been delivered by the woodshop teacher at the local school to be sharpened. I wondered what was to be learned by students using tools that they didn't know how to sharpen by a teacher who also didn't know how to sharpen them!


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## Moai (Feb 9, 2009)

....or lazy students & teacher!
Recently, I have been fascinated and more an more interested with "Dutch" wooden planes, like Ulmia, E.C.E, John Weiss and others…..I think is another great option to save money on shipping. We have been educated with the steel plane in mind, and often asiciate a wooden tool with lesser quality, but that conception totally changed in my case the same day I tried a wooden plane.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

I certainly agree with you Moai. One point that many overlook when it comes to wooden planes is the weight factor. A metal plane gets pretty heavy when being used over longer periods by an old guy like myself. I've made a couple of wooden planes. One was a rounded bottom plane which was not too bad and the other was a jack which didn't turn out too good because I didn't really know what I was doing, but I've been taking smart pills, so I'm going to have another go at it in the near future.


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## kiwi1969 (Dec 22, 2008)

I,m guessing thats a new plane not second hand? $119 is about right for a new stanley, thats average in Oz if I remember right. I have a #5 and a #3 and although they,re are ok they ain,t the best and I regard them as a stopgap until I get a better set. The depth adjustment broke on the #3 after a week of use. Also why don,t you look for E.C.E planes there, they,re made in germany so they must be easy to find in your part of the world and would be a much better option.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Was it a Stanley Bailey Kiwi or Stanley handyman? The one I bought actually looks way to good to break like that, but it has a 2 year guarantee on it like most products sold here, so I'm not too worried. It looks like at least as good a quality as my 30 year old Stanley. The only real difference is that it has a rifled sole which should make the lapping go faster. (not sure ''rifled'' is the right word, but you get the idea). It hasn't got any plastic parts on it except the totes. Thanks for the tip on the German planes. I will check them out. Probably too expensive to import though.


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## kiwi1969 (Dec 22, 2008)

It,s a Bailey, I don,t think they make handymans any more. Lucky to get these here, they only import #5 now, only other option is eagle and you don,t want to even see one of those! I,m planning to build my own wood planes soon.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Good move on the wooden planes Kiwi. I checked out the German ones and they look great, but haven't been able to find a dealer here in Norway. Zero on the web. Hope you post your wooden planes when they are done.


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

I just bought a #4 Stanley Bailey off of Craigslist and while trying to do some research on it, I came across your post, Mike. 
How is yours holding up ? Have you made new totes for it yet ? Mine are wood, but I can't tell what kind it is due to the finish on it. I also got another smaller plane that only says," Made in America" on it. It's in nice shape, but needs to be sharpened . The guy sold me both of them together for a total of $12.00US. He's moving to Florida from Massachusetts , and already has his shop set up down there with newer tools.


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## Buckethead (Apr 14, 2013)

Stefang… Find a plane you like. I'll purchase it for you and ship it as a gift. My wife does international shipping quite often, and a gift has no import duties in most countries.

I think I just heard a black helicopter fly over my house.

Feel free to PM me.


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## Buckethead (Apr 14, 2013)

Oh dear! I just realized I posted this to a three year old thread!

Anyhow, the offer still stands!


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

*Mark* My Stanley Bailey plane was new when I bought it about 4 years ago. I tuned it up and I've gotten some very nice service out of it. I use it a lot. I haven't made a new tote and knob for it yet, But I will soon. I've got some nice walnut that might look nice. Actually it hasn't been an issue using the plastic ones, but from a woodworkers standpoint it does suck.

I just recently bought 3 new hand planes from a German Source. They are manufactured by the Quang Sheng factory in China. I bought a foreplane, a Jackplane, and a #4 smoother. They are not Lie Nielsen, but darned close and at half the price. They are all Bedrock design. They go by the brand name 'Wood River' in the US. They are a lot heavier than the Stanley Bailey planes, but I can imagine that some might prefer a lighter plane anyway. I haven't used my newest planes yet, so I'm not sure if the weight will be an issue for me. I can say that my #4 cut beautifully straight out of the box with no tuning or blade honing, although they do recommend honing before use. The edge was so fine and the finish so good that I will first try stropping the back and bevel before actually honing the blade, at least on my #4. I've only done a few test cuts with it so far on some sycamore.

*Buckethead* Thanks for the generous offer, but I already have my new planes.


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## mcase (Oct 31, 2009)

Stefang,
Wow! that is limited choice alright. But you can get the new Stanley's to work. I tuned in a #4,#5 and #6 once. Its Just a lot of work. The soles are not flat. Flattening them is job one. You will need a large enough plate glass or flat granite and wet sand paper. Don't be shy, start with 60 grit and work your way down there is a lot of iron to remove. Once flat and tuned they ain't bad. The steel in the blade is some kind of HSS crap replace it if you can. I thought Norway was part of the modern world? The only planes available are Anant and Stanley??? Whoa that's bad. The Bailey was undoubtedly your best choice. What would a Woodriver cost to ship and pay duties? They are only about $130 bucks in the U.S. and VASTLY superior to Stanley.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

*mcase* As you can see from my above comments I have already purchase 3 planes from Germany that are almost identical to the Wood River brand and of the same quality. I have long ago tuned up my Stanley Bailey #4. It has a rifled sole and therefor easy to flatten. It works great now. I am looking forward to using my new planes, but I haven't had time to hone the blades yet and polish the backs. As I mentioned before, they are so well sharpened that they may need only some stropping.


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## mcase (Oct 31, 2009)

Oops, How did I miss that. Probably because I was using a tablet while sick in bed. I got the the fore, the jack and the smoother also and am very happy with them. I am surprised to learn that a Scandinavian country with a tradition of wood working is so barren of options. Well anyway, you got a great set of planes and I'm glad your enjoying them.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Thanks *mcase* I am slowly building a nice plane till to have above my bench for them when I'm not slaving in the garden. I'm almost finished with it and I'm looking forward to seeing my new planes in it. It seems that while the Norwegians do appreciate their cultural heritage in general, that hasn't been translated into a love for tools as far as I can see. 'Hand tools' in my area on the southwest coast are mostlyl electric. There is absolutely no used market for any kind of tools. But, what the heck, it is a very small population here, so I'm sure that has a lot to do with it. The exception to the rule is that there are quite a few really gifted wood carvers around, and of course, woodturners too.


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## mantwi (Mar 17, 2013)

Here's Paul Sellers opinion of the modern Stanley SB4 planes. "I would take this plane back because of it's inferior quality and unfitness for purpose. The Stanley SB4 plane is and always will be piece of junk. If it were stainless steel, perhaps it could have been sold as a cheese slicer. Stanley came out with this plane type under different names years ago. It's the very worst plane in the world" (http://paulsellers.com/2013/05/stanley-plane-sb-4-junk/) Now Paul is usually all about using the Record and Bailey brands, even in preference to the higher priced LN etc. But when it comes to this particular one he is brutal in his assessment. If Paul says this plane most certainly deserves the criticism. Check out his website: http://paulsellers.com/
It's a great resource. I know an old dog like you probably knows about Paul but the younguns will see this too.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Yes mantwi, I do follow Paul Sellers. He is probably right, but I am getting really good performance from my SB4 in spite of what he says. That said, I did want quality planes and that is why I bought the Wood River type planes which are produced by Quang Sheng in China.


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## mantwi (Mar 17, 2013)

I like it when someone gets unexpected good results from a tool. I have old Bailey numbers 5 and 6 and of all things a 1960's era Craftsman/Bailey clone and a no name block plane. After some flattening and such all of them perform very well. My biggest surprise in planes was a filister I bought at Harbor Freight for about $ 8.00. It was a real dog but after devoting an hour or two to flattening the sole, squaring the sides and putting a razor's edge on the blade it works like a charm. I love that thing. Someday I'd like to get a Wood River plane, they look and feel incredible and it would be nice to get a tool that does what it's designed for out of the box. In the meantime like the old Indian in The Outlaw Josie Wales movie we must endeavor to persevere.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

I bought a Stanley Jack plane 30 or 40 years ago. I never used it much because I didn't know the first thing about hand planes until I started woodworking about 17 years ago. Unfortunately about 14 years ago I knocked it off my bench onto the concrete floor of my then shop and broke one of the cheeks. It is a good quality plane and despite the damage it still works very well. It just hurts to look at it.


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