# An honest discussion about workbenches.



## mochasatin (Apr 15, 2010)

Hi,

I am 55 and have been working with wood since I was a child getting in the way in my father's woodshop. I have used and built several workbenches and work surfaces over the years and I have formed an opinion about the workbenches I have used.


Old, sexy workbench designs do not work for me. I simply do not do wood working the way they did in Europe 200 years ago. I built an Nicholson Style English workbench 5 years ago and to be honest, I don't really like it.
Old workbench designs are fun to build, but I do not find them to be very handy. I am sure there are many woodworkers who are very happy with the old style benches or at least claim to be happy. But I am interested in knowing what woodworkers really want from a workbench in a modern shop.
Having said that, I really like bench dogs and holdfasts.
I prefer wide, flat surfaces for the workbench top. I need a surface for both building and assembly. I hate running to my tablesaw to do assembly work because there was not enough room on my workbench. I don't like handling and moving material more than I have to.
Complex workbench designs do not add any significant value for me. It is a simple work surface that I am after. The bench will get beaten up. It needs to be easy to repair. The benchtop surface should be replaceable.
The workbench top should have sufficient overhang so I can clamp all around the perimeter of the bench. I like clamping portable tools and accessories to the workbench, i.e. pocket hole jigs and small sanders.
I like to stick my feet a little way under the bench if sitting so any cabinets or shelves underneath need to allow for legroom. The best solution for me is to use a properly positioned shelf for a foot rest.
I prefer one or more electrical outlet strips mounted under the benchtop. There should be easy access to the outlets, but the outlets should be protected from dust accumulation. FYI, if you only use hand tools, then you should be aware that the electrical outlets provide electricity to run the motors in power tools.
I prefer modern materials for bench construction. Plywood is relatively light and has cross directional strength and has minimal seasonal movement. Particle Board and MDF provide flat, hard surfaces. Stack 3 boards or more together of 3/4 thick MDF and you have a nice workbench top. Stick a piece of 1/8 hardboard on top of that and you have a replaceable surface.
If the bench is against the wall, then I want thin upper cabinets above the bench within arms reach.
I prefer metal over wood for tools, especially for workbench vices. I don't like moving a dowel into another hole every time I want to use my leg vice. I want to be able spin the vice handle with my finger. 
You don't have to buy expensive hardwood for your workbench. Save the nice wood for your projects. Do what Christopher Schwarz recommends in his book Workbenches from Design & Theory to Construction & Use, use large clear Southern Yellow Pine lumber from your local home store. Buy the clear 2×12x10 SYP boards. Pick through the piles at the store. Plane the wood to 1-1/4" and cut to size. FYI, Southern Yellow Pine very hard for a softwood - 870 on Janka scale.
Think about what *you* really want in a workbench, not what you are told or read somewhere. What works for you in your shop? What works best for you ergonomically? If you are taller or shorter then adjust height accordingly. Do you have back problems and require a stool? Are you hunched over often doing fine work? If so adjust your bench design to suit your needs.

Finally, my best advice for us is to design our own workbenches. Its OK to look around the web for ideas, but we must make the final drawing. If you still like the old style bench types, then consider making a hybrid bench encompassing your needs and ideas. We all spend many hours in the workshop. Each of us must have a symbiotic relationship with our workbench or the work will become pure drudgery. Only we can determine which design will work best for ourselves. I will never build another workbench from someone else's plans or drawings again.


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## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

You and I are cut from the same cloth. I prefer many of the points you listed. My current workbench came about when I rented my last commercial shop. There was a crappy attempt that somebody had made out of pallets left from the previous tenet. I straightened it out, made it flat, made it level, skinned it with a full sheet of 3/4" plywood and went to work. It's has served me well for more than ten years now.


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## JKMDETAIL (Nov 13, 2013)

Now that's a pretty strong list. One of the things that really caught me odd was the metal top. I drop to much stuff to do that. My chisels would be a wreck. I agree, step out of the box and come up with what works for you, not necessarily those before us. We are suppose to make improvements along the way.


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## mochasatin (Apr 15, 2010)

I don't believe I said anything about a metal top. I recommended a 1/8" piece of hardboard.


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## mochasatin (Apr 15, 2010)

I was a factory manager for many years. We were always looking for ways to improve efficiency and eliminate waste.



> You and I are cut from the same cloth. I prefer many of the points you listed. MY current workbench came about when I rented my last commercial shop. There was a crappy attempt that somebody had made out of pallets left from the previous tenet. I straightened it out, made it flat, made it level, skinned it with a full sheet of 3/4" plywood and went to work. It s has served me well for more than ten years now.
> 
> - devann


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## vikingcape (Jan 3, 2013)

You may have seen these two but if not they are great to see.

I think these two are innovative. I don't have the room for the worktable but if I ever build a shop (a billion years from now) I would do the work table in a heartbeat. Plenty of storage, area for working, and a replaceable top. The "Texas" roubo one would be great for many work holding features.


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## Oliver15 (Jul 5, 2012)

Excellent points.


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## mochasatin (Apr 15, 2010)

Interesting videos. Two unique benches. It sounds like AskWoodMan came to the same conclusions I have. I suspect there are many other experienced woodworkers who have already made the jump.



> You may have seen these two but if not they are great to see.
> 
> I think these two are innovative. I don t have the room for the worktable but if I ever build a shop (a billion years from now) I would do the work table in a heartbeat. Plenty of storage, area for working, and a replaceable top. The "Texas" roubo one would be great for many work holding features.
> 
> - Kaleb the Swede


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## wooddon (Jul 11, 2007)

Amen


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Building a traditional bench was a rite of passage for
me so I can't say it wasn't worth doing. If you don't
want to do traditional furniture building with perhaps
it's not worth doing. I agree modern materials can
be made flat and a good bench can be made cheaply
in terms of material cost and effort.

http://lumberjocks.com/Loren/blog/27597
Comments on my semi-traditional bench I made many
years ago. I still use it. Most of the wood 
was salvaged except the base which I made
from construction fir.


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## mochasatin (Apr 15, 2010)

I felt the same way which is why I built the English Workbench. If you had to do it over again would you have made some changes to the original design to make it better for you?



> Building a traditional bench was a rite of passage for
> me so I can t say it wasn t worth doing. If you don t
> want to do traditional furniture building with perhaps
> it s not worth doing. I agree modern materials can
> ...


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

A wee bit longer. That's about it.

Different mindsets between the two styles.

A workbench build is usually just as much of a skill building exercise as it is building a useful tool. Building it with that in mind you would probably take extra time on the details as opposed to an almost strict utilitarian approach.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I might have skipped the tool tray. I didn't have
enough shorts to make the top wider though and
it was interesting to make the tray and figure
out the end caps… the top moves and the end
caps are slotted, the top laminates tongued.

All in all, it allowed me to do some cool technical
things I had never done before. If you use dovetails
and endcaps in a bench like I did you've almost 
used every major furniture making technique.

The point being that once you've done it, you know 
you can do it so other challenges are less intimidating.

The tool tray is a cesspit of junk most of the time.
I'm not totally averse to the idea. I like being able
to put clamps all around the bench so a fixed drawer
base is not so appealing to me. I've thought about
some sort of tool-wells in place of the tool tray,
maybe something that pops up… a rather fanciful
concept admittedly.


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## WadeHolloway (Aug 31, 2012)

One of the main things about building your own bench and all of the designs is that you never really know what you like or what works for you until after you have built the bench. Then as time goes by your likes and needs most likely will change and so then what you want in a bench will change too. I spent years working off of a plywood and saw horses type bench and I spent a lot of time looking through designs and reading what someone thought was the best bench. I finally got to build my own and even though it was exactly what I wanted at the time, not so much now. But as I stated my out look on benches and the way I work has changed too. I used to be a big power tool guy but over the last 5 years or so I have discovered that a lot of the times I can do the same job with hand tools as with power tools and do it faster. But all that is just me and everyone else maybe different.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

> # I prefer modern materials for bench construction. Who still uses hide glue and how would they possibly justify its usage?
> - mochasatin


I do. There's a number of advantages over more modern glues. There's also some disadvantages. Neither is strictly better than the other. To completely dismiss one type is foolish.


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## mochasatin (Apr 15, 2010)

Foolish to dismiss hide glue? No, not really.



> I do. There s a number of advantages over more modern glues. There s also some disadvantages. Neither is strictly better than the other. To completely dismiss one type is foolish.
> 
> - jmartel


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Yeah, really.

There are many advantages, particularly in veneering and marquetry to using hide glue. .....reversibility, veneering without clamps (hammer veneering), clampless rub joints, ease of cleanup, lack of "creeping" found in pva glues to name a few.

To each his own but I agree with Jeff…...to dismiss one is just foolish.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

> Foolish to dismiss hide glue? No, not really.
> 
> - mochasatin


Have you actually used hide glue? I thought the same until I started using it.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Well, you're not really missing out on something
if you don't make chairs or guitars or do steam
bending, but they are interesting things to do with
wood.

Are you missing out by not using hide glue or
learning hammer veneering? Maybe not, but 
such topics may be interesting to explore.

You might as well tell a bookworm he's missing out on
the good life by not being interested in sports
cars.


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## chiseler (Dec 20, 2015)

I have been a pro woodworker for the better part of 40 yrs. and have worked in many shops in my travels.So I have had the opportunity to work on every manner of workbench conceived by man<and>s uses


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Thoughtful post, mochasatin. I don't agree with a significant number of your viewpoints, but that doesn't diminish the effort you put into typing them up. A Nicholson-type bench wouldn't be for me, either.


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## mochasatin (Apr 15, 2010)

I apologize to all. I did not intend to cause a flame war over the use of hide glue. My intent was to have an open discussion about workbenches. I am going to remove the offensive sentence from my posting.


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

thanks for the 'other' side opinion of workbenches. I will be starting such a project this summer/fall and still open minded on material and style. Mostly leaning towards split top roubo for it's functionality. Yet, more research to do.


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## sgmdwk (Apr 10, 2013)

I agree with most of your observations. I built my own bench a few years ago, to my own design, http://lumberjocks.com/projects/84179 , and have found it very useful. I glued three layers of 3/4" plywood for the top - heavy and stable. I do wish I had a couple more inches of overhang on the sides for easier clamping. I sure wish I could go to the store I pick up southern yellow pine. That ranks as an exotic wood here in the Pacific Northwest.


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## Texcaster (Oct 26, 2013)

I'm always a little confused when people think bench work is different if one is using hand tools or hand power tools. The ideal is to have both hands free and the job secured. It's been this way for centuries.

My bench is versatile and at 500mm x 1.75m, is on the small side as modern benches go. The bench is heavy enough not to shift while I'm pushing a plane. Electrical leads are dropped from above and the bench is never up against the wall. I have a lower height assembly table that I can screw things to if necessary.

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/92062


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Sorry about the defensive stance on hide glue. I use nothing else by choice but that is my choice. 
I agree with many of your other points about workbenches and certainly one type is not right for all. I spent my entire boatbuilding career working on large wall attached benches with power tools and big pieces. In my retirement I use more hand tools and work with much smaller pieces. Now the traditional style works much better for me for those aspects.

That said, when I built my (somewhat traditional) bench I used almost all plywood and innovated where I wished to make something that I personally liked and could use, taking a little from the "Roubo" style and going on from there.


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## mochasatin (Apr 15, 2010)

Nice bench. I like the simple, solid design.



> I agree with most of your observations. I built my own bench a few years ago, to my own design, http://lumberjocks.com/projects/84179 , and have found it very useful. I glued three layers of 3/4" plywood for the top - heavy and stable. I do wish I had a couple more inches of overhang on the sides for easier clamping. I sure wish I could go to the store I pick up southern yellow pine. That ranks as an exotic wood here in the Pacific Northwest.
> 
> - sgmdwk


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## sepeck (Jul 15, 2012)

In the past I had some doubled 3/4" plywood on a frame of 2×4 and 4×4's. It was mostly solid as long as you knew where you where hitting and was a reasonably flat surface. Currently I have a cheap Harbor Freight bench. It suffers from problems of being to light mainly. Overall it has worked. It's flat, it has a surface, the small bench dogs do work 'enough' and it was a present over 10 years ago. It showed me the value of having a vice, even a cheap marginal one so, as a utility surface it works and I get by. (It also instilled in me the desire to have a quick release or smooth closing one (ala Bench Crafted) in the future.) Not awesome, but it has been an inexpensive learning experience on a sort of 'traditional style' bench.

I spent a chunk of last year thinking about my garage/shop and figuring out both how I worked and how I wanted to work on stuff in the future. I found the bench against the wall was a problem. Space for powered bench top tools was a problem. So I made some cabinets and moved my existing work bench into the center and wow. It really helped me out a lot.



Since I am mixing more hand tools into what I am doing now it really did focus me on how I was using my bench. I, like you, looked at the Nicholson, and this video by Mike Siemsen, etc. but those huge aprons kind of drove me nuts. I really thought about the Paul Sellers work bench for a long time, but after I re-arranged my shop decided that style would mostly work but was not quite for me. I did get a lot of ideas for sizing from it though so it was a good though exercise.

In the end, what looks like will work for me and the type of things I make is a modified split top Roubo.

I plan to draw inspiration from this http://www.billyslittlebench.com/blog/category/split%20top%20roubo
and this:


So let's see how I did. 
1. I looked at a ton as well and most… just didn't fit my style. Although what I am building is 'old' it is kind of an updated version of it, I am saving up for nice vice hardware now.
2. I agree with most of this. That said, I will also be using this as a learning experience. Jay Bates built a budget Roubo style recently but most of his videos he uses that Modified Paulk Workbench which is huge and he definitely uses it, but is to large for my space. 
3. Bill Schenher says he finds one or two holes for a hold fast seems to work well enough for him, so I am going to start there myself.
4. I will point to that Paulk link above. I really wish I had room for it. It might be a real option for some folks especially if they are dealing with sheet goods. I believe Jay has his wired with outlets.
5. Enh. I really haven't worn a bench top out enough at this point so may not be qualified 
6. Yes. The drawers on HF bench are under the overhang but still, I could move them far lower since I generally don't get into them.
7. Enh, not my style. Don't disagree or agree but a fair point for your workflow. I perch on a shop stool with feet on the rungs.
8. I have a retractable cord hanging from the rafters which works for most of my hand power tool needs.
9. I used MDF with melamine for my shop cabinets. They are pretty nice. For something I am beating on…. I think I will prefer wood but that's a preference. Norm Abrams shop bench had a replacement hard board top and I used that on a job site bench we made at one job, it worked. 
10. Bench against the wall for me didn't work so I have no preference there. That said, my lathe is against the wall and a narrow wall hanging tool cabinet is in the future for me over my shop cabinets.
11. Vice, still mixed on that. Either a quick release vice like Paul Sellers uses or Benchcrafted hardware. Not sure yet. I'll have to go back and see what others have said.
12. Douglas Fir 4×12's for the tops. It's cheap, locally available to me. Not sure for the legs, but maybe the same, just cut down to size. 
13. Taller, like Paul Sellers suggested. The Harbor Freight one is way to low for me, hunching is painful.

Nice review/list of ideas.


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## mochasatin (Apr 15, 2010)

Sepeck,

It sounds like you have been planning your bench in detail for a while. Tight spaces are challenging. Wadehalloway posted above that people's needs and circumstances evolve over time. I agree with that. You may yet be able to build your larger bench in due time.



> In the past I had some doubled 3/4" plywood on a frame of 2×4 and 4×4 s. It was mostly solid as long as you knew where you where hitting and was a reasonably flat surface. Currently I have a cheap Harbor Freight bench. It suffers from problems of being to light mainly. Overall it has worked. It s flat, it has a surface, the small bench dogs do work enough and it was a present over 10 years ago. It showed me the value of having a vice, even a cheap marginal one so, as a utility surface it works and I get by. (It also instilled in me the desire to have a quick release or smooth closing one (ala Bench Crafted) in the future.) Not awesome, but it has been an inexpensive learning experience on a sort of traditional style bench.
> 
> I spent a chunk of last year thinking about my garage/shop and figuring out both how I worked and how I wanted to work on stuff in the future. I found the bench against the wall was a problem. Space for powered bench top tools was a problem. So I made some cabinets and moved my existing work bench into the center and wow. It really helped me out a lot.
> 
> ...


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## DustyM (May 16, 2016)

My workbench was my first project I ever tackled, and it was the one from the NYWS book (I've actually found quite a bit of Norm's stuff at a local used book retailer). It was mainly for the challenge, but I thought I'd use it more than I do. Really, I only use it right now to secure my dovetail jig. The old slab door mounted on 2×4's that the previous owner left in my garage get's more use from me in terms of assembly, small tools usage, and tinkering.
This, however, is a byproduct of my workspace. It's a 2-car garage, but a solid quarter or more is taken up by a spare bedroom, another chunk is lost to the furnace and water heater, and still more to storage. I recently got a new TS that I can rool out of the only open section I have (that was previously permanently occupied), and now I prefer to use collapsible tables and whatnot for assembly purposes. I don't know that I'll ever settle on a single workbench solution to meet all these needs, as shuffling my larger tools and work areas around has always taken top priority.


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## MinnesotaMarty (Jan 25, 2015)

I have a 4'x6' Paulk style workbench that has two 2'x6 halves. My shop is somewhat space challenged and I need portability. The 6' halves fit nicely in my Dakota pickup bed of 78" long. I have solid core doors that I found as countertops above my cabinets and my vise is part of that. Everything can be put away in about 10 minutes so that I can get vehicles inside for a cold Minnesota winters night. I just don't have the space for a stand alone workbench. 
I like the discussion because it is full of good ideas. Thanks for putting up the topic
Marty


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## mochasatin (Apr 15, 2010)

The Paulk style bench seems fairly popular with the posters on this forum topic, particularly those with tight spaces and/or need portability. I was not familiar with the design so I looked into it. It seems to be a very practical bench and I can see why it is popular. The design reminded me of a cross between a torsion box and an aircraft wing - light and strong.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

I didn't read everyone's posts but the few I relate to the handtools benches.My days of plywood and Mdf are behind me good riddance.
I found its nearly impossible to hand plane thin pieces on surface that isn't flat.My maple top is easy to tru up dead flat.
When commission customer or visitors come in my shop they always gravitate to my bench.I believe it inspires confidence.
I think my old jointer is the pride of my shop when I try to show that.Most become scared and confused


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## mochasatin (Apr 15, 2010)

I went back and watched the Ron Paulk videos and was very impressed. He did a good job identifying his requirements in detail and then designed a bench to exactly meet those requirements. He started the design from scratch and was laser focused on his needs. Now his bench is a big hit. I really like how the bench's portability makes it a good crossover bench for both woodworking and carpentry.


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## SuperCubber (Feb 23, 2012)

Great discussion here. I agree with just about everything you said, especially the overhang for clamps. Mine has three layers of 3/4" plywood for the top with a replaceable hardboard sheet on top of that. http://lumberjocks.com/projects/83617

Seems to work for me.


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## mochasatin (Apr 15, 2010)

Nice bench. My first bench was one of my favorites. I had to leave it behind when I moved out of my first home because the New buyer wanted it as part of the deal.



> Great discussion here. I agree with just about everything you said, especially the overhang for clamps. Mine has three layers of 3/4" plywood for the top with a replaceable hardboard sheet on top of that. http://lumberjocks.com/projects/83617
> 
> Seems to work for me.
> 
> - SuperCubber


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## splatman (Jul 27, 2014)

> # 8. I prefer one or more electrical outlet strips mounted under the benchtop. There should be easy access to the outlets, but the outlets should be protected from dust accumulation. FYI, if you only use hand tools, then you should be aware that the electrical outlets provide electricity to run the motors in power tools.
> - mochasatin


Electrical outlets are not totally useless when you are a strictly hand tool guy. Especially if you do not have good shop lighting, you have a place to plug in desktop photon generators. Let there be copious amounts of light where it's needed.


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## DwightC (Apr 10, 2016)

These are interesting ideas. Over the summer, I'm planning to take a 40 year old 2" thick butcher block table top (36"x60") and build a workbench using it as a starting point. I'm more interested in functionality than the rite-of-passage aspect of it (having made a Krenov hand plane last year and shared the sentiments of one of my classmates-'every Jedi warrior must make his own light sabre'). Three feet wide should be enough that I can use both sides of the thing and have enough space for assemblies. Five feet long is short enough that it won't eat the whole shop. And the price is right (free).

The power strip is an excellent idea. Been giving lots of thought to the base, storage aspects and overhang (yes to lots of both), etc. A vise, of course-either an old Record if I can sweet talk its owner into letting me have it, or the modern Eclipse knock-off, if not.

Anyhow, I'm just mulling all this over, and this was helpful. Thanks.


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## Jeff2016 (Jan 13, 2016)

Very insightful discussion. I have been working on my own bench design for some time now and am still debating what features from the classic designs I want to keep while making modifications that will best suit my personal needs. My shop is small, so the main bench will have to be multi use as well
It sure has turned into a bigger planning adventure than I originally thought!


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

I'm a mirror image of Jeff. I am also in the planning mode. I'm intrigued with the shaker bench but I need mobility. I'm definitely going to have a center tool well. It's still another month or three down the road. Plenty of time to finalize the plan.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

Here is my shop-made bench made from a trestle style dining table that seems to me to fit most of your criteria here. I am more than happy with mine after using it for a variety of small and larger projects.

On the other hand, many woodworkers keep their work confined to some specialty which means that they do not necessarily need a general woodworkers bench like mine, such as luthiers for example.

I also saw a new Paul Sellers video where he demonstrates the many holding options with simple bar clamps either single or in unison held in the side and tail vises instead of holdfasts and or dogs, which surprisingly seem to be capable of holding just about any size or type of workpiece solidly on the bench for planing, chiseling or sawing.

Work benches are always an interesting subject.


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## mochasatin (Apr 15, 2010)

stefang,

That is a really nice looking base.



> Here is my shop-made bench made from a trestle style dining table that seems to me to fit most of your criteria here. I am more than happy with mine after using it for a variety of small and larger projects.
> 
> On the other hand, many woodworkers keep their work confined to some specialty which means that they do not necessarily need a general woodworkers bench like mine, such as luthiers for example.
> 
> ...


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## TheTurtleCarpenter (Jun 25, 2015)

One size does not fit all, Your bench need has to be what works for you and how you work and space available. I read your Op several times and agree with 95% of what you described. Their are some real quality bench builds here on LJ and I can understand why someone would enjoy the challenge and finished project. The negative view I see when looking later down the road is that their fine bench is a catch all and the assembly bench thats made from whatever is getting all the action.

For my needs a bench has to be Sturdy, moveable, an overhang, a vice that is quick and doesnt rack and tucks in close to the table, covey holes under the top for quick storage of loose tools like the Paulk design would be handy and drawers below to fill out the rest of the base.

As for a strictly joinery bench, I would love to have a small Morovian design bench indoors in a dedicated room to use during the winters for hand tools only and some carving.


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