# Need MORE advice on installing baseboard molding...



## Ripper70 (Nov 30, 2015)

Hello All,

Thanks to all my fellow LJ'ers that helped me solve some issues I was having a few weeks ago while installing some baseboard moldings in my humble abode. I've been making progress since and have come upon another stumbling block. Hope you guys can offer some counsel.

I'm carrying the base trim down a flight of stairs and am having a total brain meltdown over how to deal with and cut the angles so that I might terminate the molding run at the bottom of the stairs with some sort of return.

Below are some pics of the area in question. What I can't seem to figure out is how to get all the angles to add up and have the ogee at the top of the molding line up correctly. I've tried cutting several test pieces but to no avail. I'm not sure, but I'm beginning to think a regular return can't be done with the style baseboard that I'm using.

Or maybe I'm just not getting it. How's best to terminate this at the bottom of the stairs where the perpendicular wall meets the edge of the stair skirt other than just painting the cut end?


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I might wrap it around the corner and do
a return. Perhaps install a plinth block 
under the return to transition into the 
adjacent baseboard. The angle at the
bottom will make the molding effectively
wider, so glue an extension to the bottom
of the return or plane the long run to a
slight taper. The mismatch of the profile
at the top should be easy to fudge with
sandpaper and some putty.

At the top you need to either add a plinth
block or use a piece of molding cut at
an angle. Say the overall angle is 60 
degrees, then each end has to be 30 
degrees for the profiles to line up.


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

Did crown molding in almost the entire house earlier this year, I feel your pain. Want to make sure I understand - are you asking how you just end it there? Or are you going to wrap it around the corner?


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

You've got to do the same thing at the top as at the bottom. Find the angle and divide it in half. The piece at the bottom will just be a triangle piece that gives you an ogee edge return.


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## Ripper70 (Nov 30, 2015)

> Did crown molding in almost the entire house earlier this year, I feel your pain. Want to make sure I understand - are you asking how you just end it there? Or are you going to wrap it around the corner?
> 
> - ColonelTravis


I am just trying to end it there. I was hoping to do something as pictured below. The stairs were originally carpeted so the skirt is/was a mess and it juts out proud about an inch or two. I put an edge band along the top part of the skirt to hide the plywood edge and would like to just end the molding at the juncture where the wall and skirt meet. I'll add baseboard to the area at the floor but figured it'd be better (read easier) to make them separate from each other.












> You've got to do the same thing at the top as at the bottom. Find the angle and divide it in half. The piece at the bottom will just be a triangle piece that gives you an ogee edge return.
> 
> - firefighterontheside


The problem there seems to be that when the angle of the top board is too acute the wedge piece won't fit the profile. With the ogee, it seems, the angle has to be at (or close to) either 45 degrees or 22.5 degrees for them to line up but then it's not parallel to the adjacent wall.


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## Ripper70 (Nov 30, 2015)

> I might wrap it around the corner and do
> a return. Perhaps install a plinth block
> under the return to transition into the
> adjacent baseboard. The angle at the
> ...


This is the board I've already fit to the top of the stair run. Fits perfectly. It's the other end that's giving me fits. Yours might be the final solution (albeit a complicated one) if I can't figure a graceful way to figure this out.

Using sandpaper, putty, caulk and anything else I can find is a given. )


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

The angles have to be equal for the ogee
to line up.

I would stick pieces of thin cardboard under
there and trace and cut with scissors until
I had a pattern I could use for the return.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

It looks like your top piece is cut at 46°, but it needs to be cut at 23°.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

So, the angle of the miter on the long molding
should be less acute.

Make a line from the top of the molding to 
where it bisects the wall. There you have
an obtuse angle. Figure out what that
angle is and bisect it. I would just draw on
the wall to make it easy to see what the
shapes need to be.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

.


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## Ripper70 (Nov 30, 2015)

> So, the angle of the miter on the long molding
> should be less acute.
> 
> Make a line from the top of the molding to
> ...


Thanks fellas. I think I understand what you both are suggesting. If the rest of the family wasn't sleeping right now I'd start hacking up more boards right now. It'll have to wait until morning. I'll report back with my results.


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

Yeah just adjust the angles, I think you want something like this?


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

Yes, it's a bit confusing. Make sure you cut the angle on a long piece and then cut the piece you need off of that one. In other words don't try to hold a tiny piece on the miter saw and cut it.


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## jerryminer (Jun 15, 2014)

Yes, it can be confusing, especially since your protractor reads the ACTUAL angle, but a miter saw gauge reads 90 degrees OFF from the actual angle (90 reads as "0" ...)

Here's a layout for your angles (based on the 46.2 reading on the digital protractor)


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## jerryminer (Jun 15, 2014)

There's also this option, but it's a bit more complicated:


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## Knockonit (Nov 5, 2017)

> There s also this option, but it s a bit more complicated:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is proper way to trim this riser area, unless you use a plinth block, at corner, complicated, but once you do it , will not forget. 
good luck with it.
Rj


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## Ripper70 (Nov 30, 2015)

> This is proper way to trim this riser area, unless you use a plinth block, at corner, complicated, but once you do it , will not forget.
> good luck with it.
> Rj
> 
> - Knockonit


Thank you, Jerry, for those illustrations. The first one cleared up allot as it made me realize that the sum total of the angles needs to add up to 180 degrees. A picture really does paint a thousand words.

The second picture illustrates the approach that Loren was explaining and having seen it I'd prefer to take this approach, if I can figure it out. There seems to be some detail missing, though. Would it require 3 or 4 sections of molding to make the turn? I'm not sure I understand how to transition from the down angle to the horizontal angle on the perpendicular wall.










I've cut a sample with the compound 46.2 degree angle and a 45 degree miter and a corresponding return that would make the vertical turn down to the floor but can't figure out how to get the ogee to line up. Do I need to make this transition with multiple sections to get the proper fit? This whole process makes me wish I'd have paid better attention during my trigonometry classes in high school!


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## GR8HUNTER (Jun 13, 2016)

might look nice just as a compound angle then run other into wall at bottom of steps just a thought :<))


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Can't tell you exactly how but I know if you use a plinth block you are using butt ends in your case only have to worry about 1 angle. Much simpler and I think it will look good.

I'll give it a try: Dead end the angled section at the bottom corner of the stair run into either a return or plinth, then run the hall base over to a plinth block too.

FWIW I like Col Travis' design better you may be doing it the "proper" way, but I think that section of vertical base looks awkward.


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## theart (Nov 18, 2016)

"I'm not sure I understand how to transition from the down angle to the horizontal angle on the perpendicular wall."

It's just like what you've got at the top only backwards. Picture it like the molding is transitioning from sloped to level at the bottom, then immediately wrapping around the corner.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

That's a bigger distortion than I was imagining.

What if you took it around the corner, but continued
downward at 46 degrees, then mitering the end as 
described above to 23 degrees?


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## jerryminer (Jun 15, 2014)

> The second picture illustrates the approach that Loren was explaining and having seen it I d prefer to take this approach, if I can figure it out. There seems to be some detail missing, though. Would it require 3 or 4 sections of molding to make the turn? I m not sure I understand how to transition from the down angle to the horizontal angle on the perpendicular wall.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can do this. There is a small transition piece (shown in my drawing) that takes the ogee profile from the 43.8 degree slope to level, then to a 45 degree miter around the vertical corner.

It is often easier to treat the profiled section and the flat section of the molding as two different pieces (I just rip the profile off the molding and use flat stock for the flat portions-- then add the profiled section after. You will need a small filler to make the transition from slope to flat in the flat stock:


















You can use the molding "whole" by mitering the transition piece (edge miter at 45, then "flat miter" at 22 to meet the sloped section. In this case, you will need a filler under the level section of the transition piece:


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## 000 (Dec 9, 2015)

I was thinking making a 90 deg return, then start your angle.
You will have to play with the height to make it meet at the correct point on your piece running up the stairs.









EDIT: Jerry beat me to it,


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## jerryminer (Jun 15, 2014)

jbay-they say great minds think alike


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

I am so glad I don't do trim for a living. 
I would not be making a living.


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## rbrjr1 (Nov 2, 2017)

I've had to do the compound angles when running crown in the bedroom. 
What I did was essentially create an isosceles wedge who's angles were half the difference of the intersecting slopes at the accute angle of the intersection.

I can post pictures tonight.

bedroom is essentially the opposite of the OP's stair scenario.. single sloped ceiling (lean to style) that intersects with straight/parallel walls at the top and bottom sides.


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## Ripper70 (Nov 30, 2015)

Now that the holidays are well into the rear view mirror I was able to get back to the housework that I started and seems to never end. I wanted to provide an update and thank you all for guiding me through this small, but critical part of my staircase renovations. The photo below shows your suggestions applied and ready for some paint and maybe a bit of spackle. Wife is happy and, therefore, so am I.










However, I'm still in need of some assistance as I, once again, can't seem to wrap my brain around the angels or the approach to a similar circumstance at the upper landing of the same staircase. If I can figure this one out, it'll all be straight runs of baseboard throughout the rest of the house and, finally, the completion of the job.

The photo below shows the area at the bottom of the upper landing. As you can see, in this instance the base molding is actually taller than the bottom of the stair skirt and, as such, I'm not sure how to assemble or cut the pieces necessary to get the ogee on the molding cap to line up properly. It seems like I may need another three-piece solution but wanted to check with you guys before I started hacking up a bunch of baseboards. Any and all advice is, as always, greatly appreciated.


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## jerryminer (Jun 15, 2014)

I see a couple of options here:


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

The two most typical scenarios are the one second one that Jerry posted and this one. (not my pic, I swiped it off the interwebs)


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## Ripper70 (Nov 30, 2015)

Thanks Jerry. The second option was my first instinct but I wasn't sure. Is the angle there 45 or 22.5 degrees?










Yes, Tony. I like that solution. Problem is my base molding is taller than the stair skirt where it meets the landing.










I may try for option A that Jerry shows above. It actually seems like it may be easier to figure the angles.

Jeez, if you guys lived closer I'd have you both employed full time!


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## jerryminer (Jun 15, 2014)

Ripper-The angle of the miter is 22 deg.-- the same angles you cut here:










You could also do a modified version of Tony's suggestion:


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## Ripper70 (Nov 30, 2015)

That's the ticket! Thank you both so much! Again!!


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