# Revamping my Delta Contractor Saw



## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

*Motivation and Goals*

*Motivation*

I have been using my Delta 36-444 Contractor Saw, 2000 Edition, for almost 10 years. It has been working well, though I want much better accuracy, and I want to spend less time getting accurate cuts.

I have a Delta Unifence, which is an excellent fence, but it requires repeated cuts to get the accuracy I crave. There is no micro-adjust available, and I cannot figure out how to add one easily. Also, unless I am willing to drill holes into the Unifence, it does not lend itself well to auxiliary fences and other fence accessories.

Repeated cuts as a path to greater accuracy has several problems:

more of my time
more electricity
more wear on my blades
Also, the more time I use my saw, the greater chance of an accident.

I have not given the saw a proper alignment in awhile; it's overdue. In the past, I have found that the blade was not as parallel to the miter slots as I would like. Loosening the trunnion bolts and adjusting the alignment with a block and a hammer is crude and hard to get precise results.

Separately, I recently built my first router table. I see many benefits, but I see a lot of room for improvement. In particular, being able to micro-adjust the fence would be nice.

I noticed that Peachtree had a replacement fence arm for Unifence that makes it easier to add attachments, and it's a bit longer. This fence upgrade is not too expensive, but it got me thinking that this saw does not owe me much, and it could be a lot better if I upgraded it.

*Goals*

I plan to make the following improvements in the saw:

Link Belt replaces original belt for less vibration
Add micro-adjust capability for aligning blade to miter slots
Total tune-up / realignment for table saw
Replace existing right-side extension table (shop-built, and a bit worse for wear) with a new one that is about eight inches longer. This new table will be made to be very rigid, and will accommodate a router plate.
Replace Unifence with Incra LS32-TS-WF table-saw / wonderfence router combo

Revamping my saw should go a long way to reaching my goals for a better table saw.

Today I learned that Incra shipped the new fence last Thursday, and the new one should arrive Wednesday this week! Yikes! I better get started building the new extension table.

*An Additional Challenge*

I upgraded the original blade guard with a Delta Uniguard. I am mostly happy with it, though in retrospect I wish I had bought one with dust collection, that mounted from the side instead of the back. But I plan to keep it.

The problem is that the Uniguard brackets are designed to use the same holes as the Incra fence. However, talking to Mark at Incra, I believe it is possible to mount the Incra fence first, then mount the Uniguard fence to the bottom of the rails for the Incra.

*This series*

This is my first blog on Lumberjocks. In this series, I'll post my progress. I welcome ideas, comments, and support from you all! This is an experiment in part to see if anybody reads blogs.

I have 45 days to decide to keep the Incra. It is likely to be only a question about whether I can make Uniguard co-exist with the fence. I'll find that out when I install the rear rail, so that will be the first thing I do in installing the fence.

But there are already projects in progress! I started a major redesign of a corner of the basement into a kitchen pantry extension. I have to at least get that to a stopping point where I can return the basement into some semblance of order.


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## ClayandNancy (Feb 22, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Motivation and Goals*
> 
> *Motivation*
> 
> ...


Check out TTrackUsa.com for the uni-t fence replacement. More versatility to the unifence. Get Pals to get a more precise adjustment blade to slot. I have the same table saw and once set up with them I haven't had to make any adjustments to it.


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## Ampeater (Feb 21, 2008)

MarkColan said:


> *Motivation and Goals*
> 
> *Motivation*
> 
> ...


I also have that same saw and I am very interested in your progress. Thanks for doing the blog.


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

*It's Here!*

I ordered the Incra LS32-TS-WF from Woodcraft.com Tuesday Aug 10. Woodcraft forwards such orders to Incra for shipment. Incra shipped it Thursday Aug 12 via UPS ground. I got a tracking number only by asking for it, but it correctly predicted that UPS would have it at my door today, and it came this afternoon.

Two boxes. One is long and narrow; that would be rails, and perhaps some fence parts. The other deeper and wider, not as long, and weighing about 50 lbs. Kind of mystifying. Why could it be so heavy? Doesn't include a table, and a lot of the rest is aluminum.

I am building a kitchen pantry extension in the basement, and the basement is a bit hard to use because things have been moved around. I want to get to a certain point (where I can put some big things back where they belong) before I start the saw revamp project.

I'm hoping to take Friday off and have a 3-day weekend. I hope that will give me a chance to start this project.

But it's very exciting that it is here!

By the way, wood craft had this for sale at $599, about $60 less than Amazon, and free shipping, too. Toolking has it for $559, and I knew that when I ordered. So why woodcraft? I don't know for certain that I can use this fence with my Uniguard saw blade guard, since the Uniguard uses the same screws needed for the fence. I do have a solution, but just in case, I want to be able to return it, because I intend to keep the Uniguard. Woodcraft made it clear that it was returnable within 45 days. Toolking, not so much. I have no experience with toolking.com other than asking about this return policy. For someone who is sure that they won't need to return the product, $40 is good savings.

I wish I had thought to order on Saturday instead of Tuesday, since we had a "sales tax holiday" here in MA, and I might have saved another $39.


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## RonPeters (Jul 7, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *It's Here!*
> 
> I ordered the Incra LS32-TS-WF from Woodcraft.com Tuesday Aug 10. Woodcraft forwards such orders to Incra for shipment. Incra shipped it Thursday Aug 12 via UPS ground. I got a tracking number only by asking for it, but it correctly predicted that UPS would have it at my door today, and it came this afternoon.
> 
> ...


Can't wait to see pictures….


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## jplhomes (Feb 4, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *It's Here!*
> 
> I ordered the Incra LS32-TS-WF from Woodcraft.com Tuesday Aug 10. Woodcraft forwards such orders to Incra for shipment. Incra shipped it Thursday Aug 12 via UPS ground. I got a tracking number only by asking for it, but it correctly predicted that UPS would have it at my door today, and it came this afternoon.
> 
> ...


I put the inca fence on my table say and love it. Great addition.


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## Robb (Aug 18, 2007)

MarkColan said:


> *It's Here!*
> 
> I ordered the Incra LS32-TS-WF from Woodcraft.com Tuesday Aug 10. Woodcraft forwards such orders to Incra for shipment. Incra shipped it Thursday Aug 12 via UPS ground. I got a tracking number only by asking for it, but it correctly predicted that UPS would have it at my door today, and it came this afternoon.
> 
> ...


I love toolking and their spin-off site tooliday. I've never had to return anything, though, so I can't help you there. I bought my Wixey angle gauge, Bosch miter finder, blades for my miter saw, and some spade bits from them. No hassles, and they will beat any price you can find on the internet that they can verify.

I look forward to hearing about your Incra as you get it installed. I'd so love to upgrade my TS with that setup. Of course the fence upgrade would be worth way more than the saw, but I don't think that's uncommon with these.


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

*Prep and Tune-up*

The new fence has been sitting in its boxes since it arrived Wednesday. I promised myself and my wife that I would get to a certain stopping point in the current project - a kitchen pantry extension in the basement - before starting the next. The basic structure (a closet and a wall along a 100-year-old stone and block wall) was up, but it needed to be painted. Some trimming out, and a couple days to paint it, has taken my spare time in the past few days.

While paint was drying, I cleaned up the saw and performed my standard alignment procedure. To my surprise, the alignment of blade and miter slots was zero to 0.003" within the range of the blade, even after using the saw for the past two years (not constant use: I have a busy job with some travel). I did not bother installing the PALS, because I don't think I can get much better than that. The trunnion bars, which I discovered a few years ago were out of skew until I fixed it (a bear of a job) were also perfectly aligned, within what I can measure.

BTW I use the SuperGage and MasterPlate from mastergage.com for aligning my saw. They make it easy to align the saw, and it makes a huge difference in the quality of the cuts, and the safety of the saw. I'm glad I invested in them. And while not strictly necessary, I used the 123 Microgage to get the throat plate perfectly level with the table top (see my review in the reviews section).

I blew out the inside of the box with the dust collector running to get it clean, so I could examine the inside workings better. (Some time ago I enclosed the trunnion box for dust collection purposes - I'll blog about that later.)

There were some places where sawdust has collected, apparently with pitch, because I could not scratch it off with my fingernail. I got an old toothbrush and some blade/bit cleaner, and it cleaned up nicely.

The cranks for raising/lowering the blade and for tilting the blade had a bit of a squeak here and there (not surprising after 10 years of use in a basement). I bought some graphite spray to handle this problem, after noticing during the last alignment, and the works run smoothly (more easily) and without squeaks now.

I installed a Power Twist V-belt, replacing the original Delta belt. It reduces vibration as advertised, but it makes its own noise, perhaps a bit more than the original. What I did not expect was how well it solved a key problem in installing my new fence! (discussed in next entry).


Notice the two pieces of masonite on the back of the trunnion box to enclose the works? This is for dust collection. It works well, but MUST be removed before tilting the blade. Look closely and you may see a black mark near the belt. The slot needs to be cut a bit wider to clear the new belt; the Delta belt was narrower.

I plan to write a blog entry on my table saw modifications. They have an impact on installing the Incra fence, so if you're following this blog closely, have a look.


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## sawblade1 (Feb 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Prep and Tune-up*
> 
> The new fence has been sitting in its boxes since it arrived Wednesday. I promised myself and my wife that I would get to a certain stopping point in the current project - a kitchen pantry extension in the basement - before starting the next. The basic structure (a closet and a wall along a 100-year-old stone and block wall) was up, but it needed to be painted. Some trimming out, and a couple days to paint it, has taken my spare time in the past few days.
> 
> ...


Looks good, great job 
How well does the link belt work? I was thinking of getting one and just wondered if you got to try yours out?
Thank you for sharing


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## Ampeater (Feb 21, 2008)

MarkColan said:


> *Prep and Tune-up*
> 
> The new fence has been sitting in its boxes since it arrived Wednesday. I promised myself and my wife that I would get to a certain stopping point in the current project - a kitchen pantry extension in the basement - before starting the next. The basic structure (a closet and a wall along a 100-year-old stone and block wall) was up, but it needed to be painted. Some trimming out, and a couple days to paint it, has taken my spare time in the past few days.
> 
> ...


Looking good. I anticipate your next blog.

I have installed some masonite on the back of my saw that is similar to yours. Yours is tighter than mine. I get a lot of dust leaks from a gap between the top of the front panel and the saw table. Have you found a way to eliminate them (without using duct tape)?


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Prep and Tune-up*
> 
> The new fence has been sitting in its boxes since it arrived Wednesday. I promised myself and my wife that I would get to a certain stopping point in the current project - a kitchen pantry extension in the basement - before starting the next. The basic structure (a closet and a wall along a 100-year-old stone and block wall) was up, but it needed to be painted. Some trimming out, and a couple days to paint it, has taken my spare time in the past few days.
> 
> ...


@SB1: So far I have installed and run the link belt without cutting, since I am in the middle of installing a new fence. I think the old belt worked reasonably well, and (when new) may have passed the "nickel test" (can the saw run with a nickel balanced on edge?). With periods of not being used, the belt got vibration which faded as it got used again, due to being in one position.

The link belt will probably not "learn" one position. It has less vibration, and it has the key feature of being variable in size, which I needed to solve a problem. But I'll write a review later when I have more experience with it.


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Prep and Tune-up*
> 
> The new fence has been sitting in its boxes since it arrived Wednesday. I promised myself and my wife that I would get to a certain stopping point in the current project - a kitchen pantry extension in the basement - before starting the next. The basic structure (a closet and a wall along a 100-year-old stone and block wall) was up, but it needed to be painted. Some trimming out, and a couple days to paint it, has taken my spare time in the past few days.
> 
> ...


@Ampeater: I used duct tape, but I used a few layers of it to create a gasket, so that the sticky side is only on the masonite, and the unsticky side faces the saw without sticking to it.


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

*The Day of Truth*

*The Problem*

My biggest concern in buying this fence is that I know it requires two mounting holes that were already occupied by my Delta Uniguard saw guard. The other brands (like Excaliber, perhaps) don't use those holes, plus they have dust collection built into the guard, but I don't want to add to my costs to put in this fence.

I had discussed the issue via a few emails to Mark at Incra, their tools support guy. He said he had heard of a couple of customers who were able to make them cooperate by

removing the Uniguard
installing the Incra fence
flip the Uniguard supports over and mount to the underside of the rear rail, using bolts to fit

The Uniguard must weigh 50 pounds. How much flexing would I expect with the rails and their support brackets? Mark said probably not too much, and that two extra brackets are provided, so I could add them for extra support.

(These two brackets are there so that if your original blade guard can't be installed with the fence in place, you can hack the Incra rail into two pieces, separate them slightly, use the two brackets to support the two new ends, and thus be able to use the original blade guard. I don't use the original blade guard, and the Uniguard does not have this issue, so I can use the extra brackets for extra rail support.)

Mark suggested that I start by mounting the rear rail by itself, and then satisfy myself that the Uniguard would mount ok, before proceeding, in case I decided to return it. Makes sense.

*Getting Started*

I started with the rear rail, in order to get right to the point: being able to see if the Uniguard could be mounted on the bottom of the rear rail.

The Uniguard brackets are compatible with the Incra rear rail; I just need to get some 3/8" x 1/2" hex head bolts for installing them. And I was able to get the Uniguard tube in place, almost…

*Another Problem, and A Convenient Solution*

There was a hangup with the motor. Because the Uniguard is mounted lower than before, it was right on top one of those boxes mounted to the motor housing. I could make them fit together, but it did not seem good that the heavy Uniguard was resting right on the motor. Maybe cause excess belt stress.

This is where the Power-Twist v-Belt came in really handy. I added two links to the belt, causing the motor to hang just a bit lower, and voilá! The Uniguard no longer contacts the motor: problem solved!

Except that now the Power-Twist v-Belt is in contact with the masonite cover for the trunnion box. (See my blog entry about Table Saw Mods for pictures and description of this cover.) No problem; I just took off the cover and cut the slots a bit longer at the bottom.

*A Bone-Headed Mistake*

I will note in passing that the Uniguard brackets, which are very thick aluminum, have very sharp square corners. I managed to bump my unprotected head against one of them, and got a pretty good cut in my scalp, and a bit of a dent in the thick skull below it. It didn't hurt or bleed very much, but it was time for a break for washing it off. Really, a minor injury: I was lucky. But a mental note to grind down those corners to make them round, to avoid such problems, or gashing my leg as I walk by, in the future.

*Decisions and Observations*

Anyway, I consider this to be a success, and I currently see no reason why I would be returning this fence. I have a total of 45 days to decide, but I think I'll be deciding sooner than that.

I also found that the rails are SIX FEET long. That's something they don't tell you about in any online material I could find. It is longer than I expected, perhaps long to support part of the fence infrastructure. But my saw was five feet long when I started all of this.

I expect to set this fence up with the rails shifted right by about 8 inches, so I can cut wider objects (up to 40 inches) on the right side of the blade. I think the only reason to cut on the left side is when you want to tilt the blade for an angle cut: my saw has a right-tilting blade, so it is safer to do such cuts on the left side of the blade. It is probably possible to shift the rails back to accommodate more cutting width on the left side for angle cuts, but I don't see that happening often, if ever.

*Today's Status*

At present the rails are mounted (front and rear), and the LS positioner is nearly attached. I figured out that I could not complete the assembly without removing the existing right extension table. I plan to suggest that they add that to the beginning of the instructions for people who have them.

My day job is busy. I have taken some time to work on this before breakfast and dinner, but it's going slowly. But I'm taking my time and enjoying it. I think it could probably be done in an hour or two, especially if you have done one before. The assembly is straight-forward, and the instructions are very good.


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## jplhomes (Feb 4, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *The Day of Truth*
> 
> *The Problem*
> 
> ...


I installed this fence on a ridged contracors saw. To say that I am pleased with the fence is an undersatatement. Good luck with your fence


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

*Assembly Complete!*

I've had a little time in the morning and evening to work on it, so it has gotten done a bit at a time.

*Completing the Assembly and Installation*

I had a few minor stumbling blocks. At one point I was wondering how the Base Mounting Clamp screws were ever going to get tightened. The instructions didn't seem to say they should be. Eventually I figured out that that came a bit later - with the Base Unit in place. But I had no access to the screws… huh?

The instructions COULD suggest at the beginning that if you have an extension table already in place, such as I do, that you should start by removing it. It does suggest that I can add a table after it is installed, but I did not extrapolate from there. Once it was removed, I had the access I needed.

It also mentioned some "provided" cardboard strips 3/4×3". I could not find them, anywhere. It did not say which parts pack they would be in. Eventually, I did find them, and I continued.

These are minor stumbling blocks, the kind of thing that says, if I can't figure this out, maybe it's time to call it a night, because it should be easier than this. And it was, the next morning.



Here's a rough photo of the fence installed on my Delta Contractors Saw. It's a messy shot; to do it right, I should have cleaned up the saw surface, and straightened up the shop a bit. But not tonight, and I wanted a shot for this blog entry.

*Alignment*

Any fence needs to be in alignment with the miter slots, which ideally are already in alignment with the blade. The procedure for this fence was to position it right at the edge of the miter slot, lock it in place, straighten it (which adjusts the mounting a bit), then tighten the screws.

I tried it with a straight-edge, but I had no confidence that it was right.



I brought out my SuperBar, adjusted the fence so the SuperBar could fit in the miter gauge, and ran it along the length of the fence. It varied perhaps 40/1000 over the length of the fence: hardly good enough. Also, the gauge reading was wobbling a bit. But the base has adjustment screws, and I set it to the point where it was tight, and would just move through the slot without wobble at all.

Loosening the base mount screws for the fence, I then tried a series of passes, running the SuperBar the length of the fence, watching the scale. Some small adjustments, bumping the fence gently, try again. I was thinking: this is how I have been doing EVERY fence adjustment with the Unifence… no more!

Eventually I got it into a position where the scale deviated no more than 1/1000" according to the scale, and tightened the screws down.

*Zeroing to the Blade*

This was tricky. You move the fence to be almost but not in contact with the blade, and half-lock it (the position that allows you to microadjust with the knob). The reason it was tricky: in that half-lock mode, the fence can be pulled forward and back a little.

The solution was to fully lock, then return to half-lock, and then be careful not to move the fence, aside from the knob. I brought it up to where I could just hear the teeth scraping lightly against the fence, then backed it off until it just stopped scraping, and called that zero.

*More Alignment*

I haven't done the alignment for left side of the blade. I decided to leave that for my next session, even if it does not take long. In sports like woodworking and downhill skiing, it is always good to know when to quit, to avoid accidents or problems.

With this blog entry complete, it's time to call it a night. Goodnight!


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## HokieMojo (Mar 11, 2008)

MarkColan said:


> *Assembly Complete!*
> 
> I've had a little time in the morning and evening to work on it, so it has gotten done a bit at a time.
> 
> ...


That is some setup. I've never been all that precise, but I'm working on it.


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Assembly Complete!*
> 
> I've had a little time in the morning and evening to work on it, so it has gotten done a bit at a time.
> 
> ...


Precision is not everyone's cup of tea. A lot of woodworkers are much more organic in their approach to designing and building, and that works very well for some kinds of work. My education is in engineering, and precision is just part of how I think. It's great to be able to realize it in the woodworking hobby.


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## empeg9000 (Oct 5, 2011)

MarkColan said:


> *Assembly Complete!*
> 
> I've had a little time in the morning and evening to work on it, so it has gotten done a bit at a time.
> 
> ...


"Precision is not everyone's cup of tea. A lot of woodworkers are much more organic in their approach to designing and building, and that works very well for some kinds of work. My education is in engineering, and precision is just part of how I think. It's great to be able to realize it in the woodworking hobby.

-Mark, hack amateur woodworker, Medford (greater Boston) MA" 
Ha! I'm definitely an organic builder . I try to come up with a plan and rough sketch but I always end up changing on the toy.


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

*The First Cut Reveals a Problem*

*Completing the Alignment Procedure*

I talked about completing the alignment procedure for the right side of the blade last time. Now it's time for the left side.

Moving the positioner base unit towards that side showed an immediate problem: it gradually got harder to do it. I figured out that the rails must not be parallel, and confirmed it with my tape measure. Note to Incra: add to the instructions that you push the rail all the way into the bracket as you tighten the bolt. Reseting all four rail bolts, pushing firmly on each as I tightened, solved the problem.

Also, since the brackets that slide on the rails were exposed, I decided to make a minor improvement:



To allow them to slide a little better, I applied some UHMW tape I had to the sides (it shows as translucent in the picture). I had to trim the tape to avoid blocking the holes. There is already a plastic pad for the main point of contact, the weight-bearing part, but on the sides, it is aluminum to aluminum, and it has to bes a reasonably snug fit if you don't want the mount to wobble. And you don't.

I noticed a problem when zeroing the fence to the blade. You're supposed to use the micro-adjuster to make a fine adjustment, but it seemed to lag - like I had to turn it many times to get it to start to move, and then turn it many times before it would move in the opposite direction. Hmmm. Sounds like a problem? I wish I had done a test cut at this point, but I saved it for later.

*Replacing the Extension Table*

As I mentioned earlier, I had to remove my extension table to tighten screws on the underside of the base mount. I took some time to attach it again. It is much closer to being level with the metal top than the first time I installed it, years ago, because I used a clamping rig to put it and keep it at the correct height while tightening the bolts.



*Finally, The First Cut! But…*

Because of the problem with zeroing the blade, I thought I would try cutting a scrap to exactly 1 inch by the fence guide, then measure it with calipers. They suggest this as an alternate way of zeroing the fence. If it is off, you simply dial in the amount it is off, and reset the scale to make THAT zero.

Yow! Even after a careful blade-zeroing, my calipers said the cut was 1 3/64"! I could do MUCH better than that with my Delta Unifence and eyeballing it! What gives?

This is where I was certain there was a problem, because the microadjust did not change the fence position for a more accurate cut.

*Diagnosing the problem*

I put the SuperBar gauge into the miter slot, and brought the fence close enough to contact the gauge's rod.



Then I rotated the microadjust to watch the scale change. IT DIDN'T MOVE, not at all. Yikes. I kept turning the microadjust. Eventually, it started moving, and moved about 1 mil (thousandths of an inch) for each click, like it's supposed to. Tried the opposite direction. No movement until after about 50 clicks, then consistent movement.

Then it hit me… 50 mils… well, 3/64" was the error in the test scrap, and 3/64" is 47 mils. Perhaps this is not a coincidence.

Next, I locked down the fence, grasped it, and tried to move it. Nope, it's solidly locked. I partly unlocked to microadjust mode and did it again. It moves. Measuring, I find it can be moved 50-55 mils back and forth. But why? The fence system is impressive, even intimidating, at first glance. But I'm an engineer, so let's keep going.

I removed the fence carriage from the LS positioner, allowing me to examine the latter closely. The problem is with the microadjusting mechanism, and the red lever must be set to middle position to be in microadjusting mode, so…



I put my finger inside, and touched the silver part (red arrow points to it). It moved! This seems to be the clamp that controls microadjusting.

I removed the screws that hold the windows in place for better access. It was clear that this part wobbles because the two screws that hold it in place have not been tightened. The red arrow above points to the back of one of the screw holes. I the loose screws also explain why sometimes it was hard to insert the carriage into the positioner: this threaded clamp may have been in the way sometimes, and not others, depending on how it wobbles.

*Conclusions and Next Steps*

I would call this a manufacturing flaw. Obviously these fences are built by hand, and someone just did not tighten it. But it also got by whatever quality control they have.

The screws to tighten it are inaccessible without disassembling the critical LS Positioner. There are four screws holding a bracket that holds the microadjust clamp into place, but they are tightened VERY firmly, and since there are four, I assume that this part is adjusted critically, probably using a jig that I don't have.

So I'm not going to mess with it. If this was an old tool from a company that is out of business, I'd fix it myself as best as I could. But given that I paid a lot of money for a brand-new tool, I'll ask them to send me a replacement, or to walk me through the fix if that can be done by me.

This is extremely disappointing. I was really looking forward to using it this weekend. I even had a bad dream about it not working last night, and spent some insomniac time wondering what was wrong. Well, at least now I know what's wrong. And I'll spend the weekend doing other tasks that I have been putting off in my excitement to get this fence going.


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## Toolz (Feb 26, 2008)

MarkColan said:


> *The First Cut Reveals a Problem*
> 
> *Completing the Alignment Procedure*
> 
> ...


For the amount of $$$ you had to pay for one of these I certainly hope the INCRA support folks either replace or walk you through corrective procedures.


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## RonPeters (Jul 7, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *The First Cut Reveals a Problem*
> 
> *Completing the Alignment Procedure*
> 
> ...


No kidding!

Very accurate explanation of the install! Great pictures too. Thanks.

"...spent some insomniac time wondering…." Is THAT what they call it?! ;-)

Learn something new every day!


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *The First Cut Reveals a Problem*
> 
> *Completing the Alignment Procedure*
> 
> ...


@Toolz: I am totally confident they will.

@RonPeters: I don't know what THEY call it. Saying I was losing sleep over it would be overstated. More like during the time I couldn't sleep anyway, at dawn, it was on my mind enough that I went down to read the manual to look for clues. Glad you have enjoyed this series! There's more coming, of course.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

MarkColan said:


> *The First Cut Reveals a Problem*
> 
> *Completing the Alignment Procedure*
> 
> ...


hmm.. sorry to hear you are having this issue. Incra support and Incra in genaral are top notch and friendly people, I am 100% positive you'll get the best service and support one can get. Even the best of us have a bad day.


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## MattMcC (Feb 27, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *The First Cut Reveals a Problem*
> 
> *Completing the Alignment Procedure*
> 
> ...


Thanks for this Blog. I just ordered the Incra TS-LS with the wonderfence as a I have a router table as a left side extension on my saw. It appears I will need to take both that extension and the cast iron extension on the right side of teh saw off when I mount this thing. Bummer. I hope I don't encounter the same QC problem you had. I have also been dreaming about using this fence system, particularly for the router applications. I hope I can get by the learning curve quickly.


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *The First Cut Reveals a Problem*
> 
> *Completing the Alignment Procedure*
> 
> ...


@Matt: I had to remove my right-side extension table because it went 32 inches, and thus made the underside of the positioner base inaccessible. If your cast-iron fence is less than say 24 inches, try leaving it on while you install; you will find out soon whether you need to remove it. And the left-router table should be ok as is. Please let me know how it goes.


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

*Re-installing the Delta Uniguard*

*Installing a Delta Uniguard onto a saw with Incra Fence*

As I said in the first installment, I have set a requirement that I can make the Incra Fence co-exist with the Uniguard, such that they can work together. The problem to be solved is that both the Uniguard and the Fence expect to use the same mounting holds on the cast-iron saw table in back.

Mark Mueller from Incra said that he had heard of customers that had accomplished this by flipping the Uniguard tube mounting bracket upside down and bolting it to the slot on the underside of the Incra Fence rear rail. That was enough to get me order to try. And as reported in the "Day of Truth" installment, I got it to work.

Because others may also want to install a Delta Uniguard and a Incra LS32-TS Fence on the same table saw, this installment serves as a guide to doing exactly that. If you end up doing this successfully, I would love to get a quick note saying that you used these instructions. You can send a message on lumberjocks, or leave a comment on my Amazon review (not posted yet 8/29/2010).

1. Remove the Uniguard and any extension table from the saw.
2. Install the Incra Fence according to their instructions.
3. Re-install the extension table, or install a new one.
4. Install the Uniguard, attaching it to the rear rail of the Incra Fence. The details of this procedure follow.

Here is a view from above, showing a detail of one Uniguard tube bracket attached to the underside of the Incra Fence rear rail:



Detailed installation of Uniguard on Incra Fence rear rail:

1. *Avoid My Injury.* As I reported in an earlier installment, I poked a hard sharp corner of the Uniguard "tube bracket" through my scalp and dented the thick skull below. Sounds worse than it was. It hurt when it happened, but is nearly healed a week later.

But the sharp corner of the tube bracket remained, waiting to injure me somehow (maybe gashing my leg). I decided to file it down, for all three Delta Uniguard tube brackets, before assembly. You only need to do it to the end that sticks out back, not the end that attaches to the rear rail.

See picture below, where the left arrow points to two filed corners. Do this for all corners that face backwards (six in all).

2. *Improve the Incra Fence rail mounting.* The Delta Uniguard comes with one very handy bracket that is used to attach the third tube bracket on the far end of the extension table. You should use this instead to attach the rear rail of the Uniguard Fence to the far end of the extension table. You should install it near one of the legs that supports this table.

This picture shows you what it looks like, if you're on the floor looking up:



The tube bracket has filed corners on the left side (in this picture) only. There are two arrows to help you understand that this bracket has tabs on two sides, and a hole for the tube between. Hard to describe; hope the picture helps.

The "very handy bracket" is labeled "Bracket for ext. table (came with Uniguard)". The proper placement is the same as described in the Uniguard installation manual. Unless you already had the Uniguard installed, follow this procedure now, but don't tighten screws yet; you'll need to adjust them when you attach a Incra Fence rail mounting bracket.

[Update: Installing an extension table, and attaching it to the blade, will probably make this bracket unnecessary in the long run. The table will run rail-to-rail, and will help support the rails. The table itself will be supported with a pair of legs.]

3. *Required Hardware.* You need: three 3/8"-16 hex-head bolts, 1/2" long, and three flat rectangular t-slot nuts that fit this bolt. The t-slot nut is not common. A couple of extras came with the Incra Fence, but you want them for the floating stop. My suggestion is to use these for now but order a bag of these nuts (for example, from woodpeck.com) so you can also mount the floating stop. The extras will also come in handy for mounting other things to the rails.

If you happen to find a 3/8"-16 t-slot-head bolt, you could use that with an ordinary hex nut. I'm not sure it exists, though: they are all 1/4" or 5/16" where I have looked.

4. *Attach bolts and t-slot nuts to tube brackets.* Having successfully installed the Incra Fence, the rear rail should have two rail mounting brackets, both attached to the cast-iron table of your saw. The fence comes with two extra for solving a problem with some guards, but you won't have this problem with the Uniguard, so we'll use them for extra support (soon).

Insert the hex-head bolt through the round, recessed hole in the Uniguard tube bracket. Screw on a t-slot nut just a few threads. Repeat for the other two tubs.

5. *Slide Tube Brackets into Position.* Looking at the rear rail from the back, slide two of the t-bolt nuts with tube bracket hanging below into the bottom slot of the rail, starting on the LEFT side. One goes all the way to the fence rail mounting bracket, near the middle. The other stays close to the left end. Now slide the third assembly from the RIGHT side, and slide it up to the rail mounting bracket.

This photo of the complete installation, taken from the REAR of the saw, should give you an idea of where these brackets go and the relationship between rail brackets and tube brackets.



6. *Snug up all bolts, but don't tighten yet.* Mount an extra fence rail bracket on the left side of the extension table. Get it all lined up properly with snug but not tight bolts.

7. *Slide the Uniguard tube into the tube brackets*, starting with the left-most (extension table side), then through the middle, and finally through the right-most (cast-iron table side). Position the tube so top and bottom tubes line up vertically. Consider getting someone to hold this up. If you rely on balancing it, you might find it suddenly coming down on your head, like I did. BONK.

8. *Motor Interference?* If you find the motor and Uniguard tube interfere with each other, I suggest you install a Power-Twist v-Belt for the motor, with a couple of extra links to allow the motor to hang a bit lower. A nice advantage of this belt its its adjustable length, but most people buy it because it reduces vibrations.

9. *Tighten all bolts.* Adjust the Uniguard according to instructions, and test it. You're done!

I am very pleased at how well the Uniguard and rear rails go together on my saw. My big concern was that the rear rail and its mounting brackets would not be able to support the heavy Uniguard without interfering with the function of the fence. Using a third mounting bracket for the rear rail, attached to an extension table near its support leg, it is all very solid, and it looks good, too!

Now I just need to fix the problem with the LS Positioner and the micro-adjuster. But hey, Mark Mueller from Incra answers emails on weekends some times! So see next installment about that.


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

*Problem Solved! Phase I Complete: Success!*

*The Problem*

In installment 6, I noticed that the microadjuster knob did not work until I had turned it 50 clicks or so in the same direction, and then it did not work in the other direction until I turned it 50 clicks. I diagnosed the problem as screws in the LS Positioner that should have been tightened during manufacture, but were not. I also determined that I did not want to attempt to fix it until I got advice from Incra tech support. (See earlier post for more details.)

I sent a detailed email with a picture indicating which part was loose to Mark Mueller at Incra, Saturday morning at 10:30AM ET. I was unhappy that I would have to wait until Monday for the solution. But Mark replied at 9:30AM ET Sunday - less than 24 hours after I wrote, and ON SUNDAY with the solution. He says he has never seen this problem before, and I believe him. I bet it won't happen again, because he'll be talking to manufacturing about it.

Just in case it does, though, here's his solution.

*The Proposed Solution*

"The fix will take 5 minutes, maybe 10 for someone that's never worked on the threaded element. Removing the red lever will give you access to the two screws that retain the threaded element; pull out the plugs at the ends of the axle that the lever pivots on and use a Phillips screwdriver or the black-handled hex tool to push the axle out of the base housing. Don't lose the two black nylon washers on the axle on either side of the lever.

"There are a few steps in the metric conversion instructions that apply directly to what you'll be doing. You can find that document here: http://www.incra.com/manuals/ThreadedSegmentReplacement_ins.pdf"

*How Did That Work For You?*

I did not time it, but I think it took maybe 7 minutes. The hardest part was getting the two black nylon washers back onto the axle, especially the second one. I used needle-nosed plyers to get the second one in place, and with some mickey-mouse eventually the shaft went through it.

I brought out the SuperBar (miter slot bar with gauge attached, used for truing blade to slot), put it in contact with the fence, put the fence in microadjust mode, and rotated the microadjuster a few clicks in each direction. With each click, the gauge changed by one mil. Amazing!

I re-zeroed the fence to the blade, set to one inch, cut a scrap. As Incra suggests, I measured the error amount in mils (1/1000") with my digital caliper, rotated the dial that many clicks. I adjusted the dial to set it to zero. Then I reset the metal ruler so it was exactly on one inch.

I took another test scrap and set the fence to 1.5 inches. Cut it: dead on!

*Conclusions for Phase I*

My early experience with this fence is that I can truly expect to set he fence to the desired width, cut, and get exactly that width (to a mil or two accuracy). However, re-zeroing the fence will be required any time the positioner base unit is moved. This concludes Phase I of the revamp of my saw.

UPDATE 8/31 on this conclusion: see Part 9.

*Goals for Phase II*

In Phase II I want to build a new, improved extension table, and make it thicker to be suitable to support a router. In this phase I will also set up the Incra Super Fence that came with this unit, and test it with the router. I want to build some small storage units in unused space in the saw, to store calibration and measuring tools, as well as the wrenches that come with the saw, etc.

Now that the fence is installed, and the Delta Uniguard too, here are some pictures of the front and rear to compare to the picture in the first installment of this series:

*Front view*



*Rear View*


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## sawblade1 (Feb 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Problem Solved! Phase I Complete: Success!*
> 
> *The Problem*
> 
> ...


Making a great tool even better Keep up the good work


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## IrreverentJack (Aug 13, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Problem Solved! Phase I Complete: Success!*
> 
> *The Problem*
> 
> ...


Great series Mark. I like your UHMW tape fix for the brackets way better than the nylon washers I tried.

I've heard Incra's CS was very good, but a call back on the weekend is impressive. Thanks for the info. -Jack


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

*Taking Back What I Said, and An Experiment*

*Taking Back What I Said*

Mark Mueller disagrees with my statement (in Part 8, Conclusions for Phase I) that "re-zeroing the fence will be required any time the positioner base unit is moved." He points out that the fixed stops (against which the base is positioned) make re-zeroing unnecessary, and he may well be right (he should know). I will revisit this subject later, after doing some experiments to learn the truth.

*An Experiment*

I want to make a new extension table measuring (with trim) 29" x 36". This extension table will be two layers of 3/4" MDF, in order to make a router base that will maybe stay flat. I envision cutting two pieces of MDF a bit larger than I need, gluing them together, then trimming them to exact size.

But how can I get very exact 90 degree angles, and exact sizes? The obvious answer is to use my table saw with the new fence… except that the standard setup yields a cutting capacity of 32" to the right of the blade, and I need 36. The instructions say that the standard setup give 14"-0" range on the left of the blade, and 0"-32" on the right.

So I have moved the rails 8 inches to the right, in hopes that this will modify the capacities to 6 - 0", and 0-32" plus 8-40". (The carriage arm does not give a 40" range, so wider cuts require moving the base.)

I plan to experiment with this setting for awhile, to see if I could be happy with that as my standard set up. I imagine I will, as I almost never make cuts to the left of the blade with a rip fence.

Since I have to live with having two ranges, it would be good to have stops set to quickly move between the two ranges.

*A Problem I Haven't Been Able To Solve*

In setting up the 8-40" range, I cannot figure out how to precisely zero the fence. The fence won't reach the blade. I could cut a strip of a specific width, then measure, and turn the micro-adjust the same number of clicks of the error in mils. But I don't have a precise tool that can tell me how close it is in mils (thousandths of an inch), because my calipers only go to 6 inches.

The closest solution I've thought of: 

set the 0-32" range precisely using the standard methods described in the manual
cut a strip of wood to 8". This should be correct +/- 2 mils.
move the base unit 8 inches to the right.
place the 8" strip against the blade
move the fence against the 8" strip
set this to zero

This solution should give me accuracy of 1/64 to 1/32". I'd like to do better. Any thoughts?


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

MarkColan said:


> *Taking Back What I Said, and An Experiment*
> 
> *Taking Back What I Said*
> 
> ...


here's another question to consider - I assume rips wider than 32" would be made seldom. in those cases - do you need to be 0.001" precise? or as long as all the rips are the same size shouldn't that be satisfactory?


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Taking Back What I Said, and An Experiment*
> 
> *Taking Back What I Said*
> 
> ...


@PurpLev: I have been asking myself exactly that question. I probably do not need .001" precise for big pieces, but if I could have it, I'd like it. Call it OCD. But I would like better than 1/64" (which is about 16 mils). I guess the cuts WOULD be the same size, assuming I set a stop for the long range, which I plan to.

But the reason I want the extra capacity is that I think such cuts might not be so rare, as in when I am building cabinets. When working with plywood, a rip fence can be also used to cut to length. In the case of this table, which should be a finished size of 29×36", I AM talking about cutting to length. Technically, it's a cross cut. I don't see danger in doing this. Do you? It's much easier, and probably safer, and certainly more accurate than using an Incra 2000 cross-cut fence.


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## boboswin (May 23, 2007)

MarkColan said:


> *Taking Back What I Said, and An Experiment*
> 
> *Taking Back What I Said*
> 
> ...


A couple of suggestions:
1. Do a couple of small projects to see if your saw is producing the accuracy you need.
2. Consider upgrading from what is essentially a jobsite saw to a cabinet saw if your are still concerned with accuracy at that point.
Many contractor saws are pretty good at accuracy but now compare with a decent cabinet saw.
For a start they don't have the power to be consistently accurate with large stock.
If you are ripping stock more than 32" wide on your table top using the fence as guide you are asking for a kickback.
*That's very dangerous.*


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

MarkColan said:


> *Taking Back What I Said, and An Experiment*
> 
> *Taking Back What I Said*
> 
> ...


there is no danger in "cross cutting" plywood with the rip fence on a TS regarding grain direction, but as Bob mentioned - the extra width will make it harder to control the pieces accurately - and could potentially create a kick back.

if you are planning on using this to build cabinets, and need wide/tall cross cuts - I would highly recommend forgoing the use of the rip fence all together and build a crosscut SLED that would hold the large parts, and allow you to position stops (Incra fence/stops? or shop build) to get your desired sized cuts. much safer (the sled rides on the table/miter slots and you don't have to keep the cut parts perfectly parallel to fence), much easier (plug and play for multiple cuts).


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Taking Back What I Said, and An Experiment*
> 
> *Taking Back What I Said*
> 
> ...


Thanks to both Bob2 and PurpLev for alerting me to a danger I was not aware of.

Mostly I do NOT try to rip a full sheet, because they are heavy and hard to control. I either get them with one rip cut to a size just larger than what I need, then rip to trim to exact size, or I put them on a sheet of foam insulation as a backer on the floor and use a guided circular saw.

Here, my plan to "rip" greater than 32" is really to trim to length: it is a cross cut, and only 29 inches wide, not the full width of a sheet.

I did build a sled for getting uniform size shelves, but it is only about 16" wide inside. Longer than that and I have an infeed problem. I suppose that could be solved with infeed/loutfeed tables.

So maybe my project ideas are pushing against the constraints of my relatively small shop. And maybe my goal of pushing the capacity of my table saw from 32 to 40 inches is pushing the limits of safety.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

MarkColan said:


> *Taking Back What I Said, and An Experiment*
> 
> *Taking Back What I Said*
> 
> ...


yup. thats why cabinet shops, and shops that use sheet goods usually have a sliding panel saw (can cross cut 48" sheets with ease). not saying all do, but from my experience - most do.

As for dealing with sheet goods - unless it's manageable sizes (read - small cabinets, and drawers) I'll do all my cuts with a circular saw, a good blade (I have a 40tooth freud Avanti blade which gives fantastic clean cuts) and an alumunum straight edge on top of a sheet of MDF to act as a backer board. I end up with final clean cuts this way, and don't even need to trim or clean it up usually.


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Taking Back What I Said, and An Experiment*
> 
> *Taking Back What I Said*
> 
> ...


Ok, I figured out the solution to my problem. To get perfect "zero" setting for the 8-40" position:

1. Rezero for the 0-32" position. If it's already there, you don't need to do it again. The red handle should be in the locked position, and it should be pointing at 0".
2. Clamp down the fence at this position, by tightening the knob at the front end of the fence. Optionally set the floating stops in front and back, so you can return to this quickly.
3. Set the red clamp to fully unlocked position (all the way open)
4. Loosen the knobs and set screws on the base
5. Pull the *base* away from the blade until the pointer in the LS Positioner window says 8".
6. Tighten the knobs and set screws on the base. Optionally set the fence stops.
7. Move the metal ruler on the magnetic strip to position it so the point shows 0", but remember to add 8" to every reading on the ruler. Or: get the plastic scales from Incra that were designed for exactly this purpose, get them set correctly, and read the scale directly.

At this point, the LS positioner is set as exactly to the 8-40" range as it was for the 0-32" range, that is, probably within 1/1000 or two. Also, if you set the hard and floating stops, you should not need to rezero when you go between these two ranges

I felt SO clever to figure this out! Until I read Mark Mueller's email reminding me that something similar was documented in the instructions he sent me, which are also right here. The difference is that I am describing how to change the range from 0-32" to 8-40", and his instructions change it to 20-52".


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

*The Core of the New Extension Table*

The Delta Contractors Saw came with a melamine table top, sized about 27×32", to support work on the right side of the blade. The Unifence attached to it. This table top has gotten beaten up with use, particularly because I formerly did not have a good workbench and it got misused, so I have replaced it a couple of times, and the current one is in only fair condition.

The Incra fence has provisions for using a fence, though as noted in an earlier blog entry, you add the table top after attaching the fence. As an interim, I put the most recent table top back in place, so I can use the saw to make the new table top.

*Requirements for The New Table Top*

My IncraDelta saw will also serve as a router table, so that I can use the Incra fence with the router. Router tables need to be very flat, and it needs to stay that way. Ideally they also have very low friction to make it easy to move heavy pieces of wood across the table.

I plan to use a router plate, so the ability to route a lip around the hole that is both hard and smooth is crucial to being able to adjust the plate to be flush and level. This rules out particle board and solid-core doors (which these days are filled with corn husks and glue, according to a guy at Home Depot). The best choices are then plywood or MDF. MDF is both flatter and less expensive for solid construction.

Two layers of MDF glued face-to-face seems to be the best choice for my needs, but it is heavy, and it is a bit of work.

I am also making this top 27×42 before adding hardwood trim on three sides, because I am using the "custom" arrangement of having the fence mounting rails shifted 8 inches to the right, to allow a maximum cutting capacity of 40".

*First Attempt: Learn From My Mistakes*

I am embarrassed to report how I made a stupid mistake with my first attempt, but friends, we are here to learn, and we can learn from each others' mistakes.

I posted a question about the best way to glue two MDF pieces together face-to-face. One method, which I got from reading Bill Hylton's router book, said to use glue cauls to apply center pressure to the top face as it was glued to the bottom one. Another method suggested by a lumberjock was to screw the faces together, noting that the screws would evenly apply pressure.

I decided to make glue cauls. I visited PurpLev (as reported in an earlier blog entry) and he suggested a sliding board on my table saw, to which ripped 2×4's could be clamped down and tapered with a pass through the blade. For the length of 4 feet, the taper went from 0 (at 2 inches from center) to 1/4" (at the edge, 2 feet from center), and the same for the other side of center.

I cut two pieces of MDF, a bit oversized for trimming after the glue dried. I had to work quickly, because the Titebond I glue dries and sets quickly. I used a paintbrush to spread the glue over both surfaces - NOT the best way, see below. I flipped one on top of the others, leaving two factory edges offset by about a quarter of an inch, so that they could be used to accurately trim the opposite sides after drying. Then I placed four cauls along the long way - two about 4 inches from the ends, and the rest placed for equidistance. I clamped the cauls to the edges.

I should have gone back to read Bill Hylton's suggestions before I started gluing. The key sentence I missed was that using caults, you need to clamp them to a flat surface.

An hour later, much too late to do anything about it, it struck me that I had made the fatal mistake: the clamps were squeezing the lower face to the upper face and clamped only to the caul. It occurred to me that if there was any flex to the MDF at all, I was making a bowed surface. The clamps are strong, and indeed, that's what happened. The real problem is I don't have a table of a size to which I could clamp the two surfaces plus the caul.

So I ended up with a table top that was bowed 1/4" from the center on both sides, which has no use I can think of. Rats. And I have spoiled my reputation as a smart woodworker with my lumberjocks buddies. But if I can save one of you from making the same mistake, that's ok.

*The Second Attempt*

Someone else suggested using sheet rock screws to screw the faces together after gluing. Someone said I did not need to drill pilot holes. But I reasoned (thinking before gluing, this time) that the top face needed holes larger than the threads, but stopping at the lower face, so that tightening the screws would pull the two faces together with no resistance. If I did not pre-drill the holes, the threads in the upper face would prevent this tightening action.

I drew a grid on the surface to become the lower face, so that the screws would be regularly spaced. How far apart? I imagine the clamping effect to be strongest at the screw, and going down as you go away from the screw in all directions, effectively a circular pattern, with overlapping circles from neighboring screws. But that did not answer the question. Eight inches seemed too much distance; four inches seemed overkill. I think I used 5 inches. Here's a picture of the pre-drilled holes in the MDF:



I vacuumed away the debris, spread some newspaper on the floor below the edges, then began spreading glue. I found a glue spreader I bought for just this kind of task. It's like a 3 inch scraper with a series of small notches, and it made very short work of spreading the glue thin yet even: at first there were streaks, but in seconds the glue flattened itself out. It worked much faster than the paintbrush, and made the glue thinner. Perfect.

With both faces glued, I sandwiched them face to face, and again offset the one with the factory edges by about 1/4", to allow it to guide the trimming against the fence after the glue dried. Then I started drilling in the screws, starting in the center and working outwards in both directions, to avoid an arc in the middle. I noticed on finishing that some edges did not quite meet, only one one side; I tried using clamps around the edges, but it did not help much. Here is the glued, screwed, and clamped MDF assembly:



When the glue dried, I noted that the gaps were still present on one end, so I made note that this would be the end farthest from the blade and the router. Since I plan to glue on hardwood edges, it won't be visible, except perhaps when using a long straight edge.

I removed the screws (they no longer serve a purpose), sanded, filled the holes with filler, and sanded again the next day. Naturally, the side that had the screws will be the bottom face.

My square is only 24" long, but it shows that the top face (the one without screws) is very flat, and the corners are very close to right angles.

I used the factory edges of the face that were offset by a quarter inch as a fence guide, and cut to a very accurate size of 27×42". I don't have a tool capable of measuring distances larger than 6 inches within thousandths, but I believe it to be within a few thousandths, thanks to a carefully set up Incra fence. This accuracy is completely unnecessary for this job sense I can trim to fit after adding the hardwood trim.

*Comments*

Some of you are rolling your eyes about the over-engineering - things like screws every five inches, predrilling holes, filling the holes after removing screws, trimming to exact size. I know it is overkill, but for me, accuracy is part of the pleasure of what I'm doing. This kind of extra work would make me unprofitable if I were doing this as a business, but I am doing this for fun.

Next up: laminating the faces.


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## NormG (Mar 5, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *The Core of the New Extension Table*
> 
> The Delta Contractors Saw came with a melamine table top, sized about 27×32", to support work on the right side of the blade. The Unifence attached to it. This table top has gotten beaten up with use, particularly because I formerly did not have a good workbench and it got misused, so I have replaced it a couple of times, and the current one is in only fair condition.
> 
> ...


If it works for that is what counts. great job


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

MarkColan said:


> *The Core of the New Extension Table*
> 
> The Delta Contractors Saw came with a melamine table top, sized about 27×32", to support work on the right side of the blade. The Unifence attached to it. This table top has gotten beaten up with use, particularly because I formerly did not have a good workbench and it got misused, so I have replaced it a couple of times, and the current one is in only fair condition.
> 
> ...


great! like Norman said - if it works, nothing else really matters. whatever works!


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## CanalboatJim (Oct 20, 2008)

MarkColan said:


> *The Core of the New Extension Table*
> 
> The Delta Contractors Saw came with a melamine table top, sized about 27×32", to support work on the right side of the blade. The Unifence attached to it. This table top has gotten beaten up with use, particularly because I formerly did not have a good workbench and it got misused, so I have replaced it a couple of times, and the current one is in only fair condition.
> 
> ...


I have similar plans for my Delta saw, but I've been too chicken to start it. Your project gives me inspiration, so I think I'm going to tackle it. Keep blogging, especially the mistakes and how you corrected them.


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## Rick Dennington (Aug 27, 2009)

MarkColan said:


> *The Core of the New Extension Table*
> 
> The Delta Contractors Saw came with a melamine table top, sized about 27×32", to support work on the right side of the blade. The Unifence attached to it. This table top has gotten beaten up with use, particularly because I formerly did not have a good workbench and it got misused, so I have replaced it a couple of times, and the current one is in only fair condition.
> 
> ...


Greetings Mark,
Sounds like you had a little misfortune at the start, but got things worked out, hopefully….
Sometimes we have to make mistakes in order to overcome the obstecles, and make corrections.
I've made many a mistake in my woodworking, and probably will make more, but that's ok….

Oh, and buy the way, I'm the one who told you to glue it and screw it…that the screws would act like clamps. It sounds like you're getting ready to move to the next step…...laminating….go for it…..


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *The Core of the New Extension Table*
> 
> The Delta Contractors Saw came with a melamine table top, sized about 27×32", to support work on the right side of the blade. The Unifence attached to it. This table top has gotten beaten up with use, particularly because I formerly did not have a good workbench and it got misused, so I have replaced it a couple of times, and the current one is in only fair condition.
> 
> ...


Yeah, RickD, I remember your name from that discussion. It was a good idea, and I'm glad you suggested it, because it worked out.

To be honest, I actually have laminated the table top, but I'm not ready to write about it, mainly because I have not taken pictures of the results! That will come, soon.


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## Rick Dennington (Aug 27, 2009)

MarkColan said:


> *The Core of the New Extension Table*
> 
> The Delta Contractors Saw came with a melamine table top, sized about 27×32", to support work on the right side of the blade. The Unifence attached to it. This table top has gotten beaten up with use, particularly because I formerly did not have a good workbench and it got misused, so I have replaced it a couple of times, and the current one is in only fair condition.
> 
> ...


Mark,
Glad it worked out for you…. that's how I laminate all my MDF if I have 2+ layers to glue up….it works.
Be sure and post some pixs when you get ready to do a blog on the lamination….ok…good deal…..


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

*Laminating the Extension Table*

Having successfully glued the two faces of MDF together, and trimming to the exact size, lamination went pretty easy.

*Which Laminate? A Shopping Tip*

The hardest part was choosing the laminate. I didn't want to wait a long time for a special order to arrive. White was boring. While I have a nice red, I didn't want it for my saw table (it's used for the Universal Tool Stand, which I'll blog about another time).

I went to Home Depot and Lowes. Most of what they have is REALLY not to my taste. They do have a basic white, and a basic black. But one Home Depot store had a closeout on black microdot. I didn't think I wanted black, but in the end I thought it would be better than yet another white surface, and might look cool next to the metal saw top. They wanted only $30 for a sheet, so I went back and got it.

The big sheet (4×8) was tricky to cut. It tore a couple of times while I tried. Perhaps it is thinner than the red laminate I used before, because I had no such problems with that, but it was only 30" wide, too. I ended up using an untorn piece for the top, and a piece with a 5" tear for the bottom, to seal it. Of course, I used slightly oversized pieces, to allow trimming to fit later.

*Laminating is Fun!*

Laminating is fast and easy, and produces nice results. Turn off the furnace, water heater, any motor (washer / dryer) that could make sparks first - you don't want them turning on with the highly flammable fumes of contact cement hanging low on the floor, which they do. Then bring a fan to the basement and set it up to vent out the window, to protect brain cells and get rid of the flammable fumes quickly. A chip brush works great for spreading the contact cement, and it can be cleaned with mineral spirits for reuse. No rush, because it has to dry 15-20 minutes before joining (and less than 2 hours). Went up and read lumberjocks during the drying period ;-) .

I used the standard technique of putting down some thin rods, leaving a gap in the middle, then placing the contact cement side down over the MDF which is glue-side up with rods. Starting in the middle, I smoothed it outward, and moved and removed rods as I went, to avoid air bubbles. Then some hard rolling with the rubber roller designed for this purpose.

Trimmed it with a router bit, then flipped it over, and did the same for the underside. This was a bit trickier because of the tear. While the tear is slightly visible, the underside is protected from humidity changes, and you won't be able to see the tear once it is installed.

*The Results*

Here's what it looks like (closeup of one corner):



I think it looks pretty slick. Moreover, thanks to the microdot surface (a grid of small indentations), it IS slick: there is less laminate to cause friction when sliding wood over the extension table. I first heard of the microdot surface from a drill press table at Woodpeckers. I am not sure that I would want an extra-slick surface for a drill press table, where friction might be useful to keep an item in place while drilling. But a table saw / router table? Definitely.

*Next Up: Oak Trim, and Attaching to Fence and Saw*

The next step will be tricky. I bought some oak to create an edge for three or four sides (unsure of whether to edge the side that will attach to the steel table of the saw). But with the Incra Fence, you also cut support pieces which are attached to the fence rails. Incra tells you how to do it on page 11 of the assembly manual - but for 3/4" table tops, but mine is now 1 5/8" thick, and the total from the bottom of the support piece to the top of the table is 2 1/2". If I cut the support pieces too narrow, the bolt won't have enough wood to hold it solidly.

I think this means I either won't be able to cover the entire edge (the uncovered part won't be visible, but it won't be protected either), or I have to do something fancy like using rabbets on both the support piece and the edging.

The other quandary is how to fasten the MDF or oak trim edge to the steel table of the saw, using the three pre-drilled holes that are there. That would be easier to figure out if I remove the existing extension, but that could make it tricky to cut and shape the oak pieces to fit without an extension.

I'll start by experimenting with some scrap, before committing ideas to oak.

If you're wondering why I have not made more progress in the past weeks, it's because of a vacation that took two weekends away from woodworking, and believe me, I was pining for the shop (sorry about that).


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## Rick Dennington (Aug 27, 2009)

MarkColan said:


> *Laminating the Extension Table*
> 
> Having successfully glued the two faces of MDF together, and trimming to the exact size, lamination went pretty easy.
> 
> ...


Greetings Mark,
Hey….. the lamination looks really good…..I don't think I've ever seen microdot laminant before….
It deffentily has a different look to it…..Nice… You're coming right along with the table, and it won't
be much longer, and you'll be routing things….all kinds of things..lol….
Attaching the table to the extention wing on the saw is not that hard…getting it level might be…lol
You figure it out… I got faith in you…...


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Laminating the Extension Table*
> 
> Having successfully glued the two faces of MDF together, and trimming to the exact size, lamination went pretty easy.
> 
> ...


Hi Rick, Thanks! Yes, getting it mounted in a way that is adjustable for leveling is the hard part, also adjusting it - since this table top is H-E-A-V-Y now! I estimate 25 lbs.

I'm actually attaching it to the table of the saw itself (right of the blade), not to the extension wing (left of the blade). One problem I have is that the holes on the side of the saw table are in a difficult-to-access place. I'd like to figure out a hardware arrangement that will actually pull it snug to the metal. The current (Delta) solution uses brackets, and it mainly serves to hang that end of the table, without pulling it towards the metal table. And it's hard to level, too!


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## Rick Dennington (Aug 27, 2009)

MarkColan said:


> *Laminating the Extension Table*
> 
> Having successfully glued the two faces of MDF together, and trimming to the exact size, lamination went pretty easy.
> 
> ...


Hey Mark,

Well… I've been waiting for someone else to chime in and give you their ideas…..I'll see if I can help….
You didn't say if the router table was going to be bolted to an angle iron that the fence rides on , and mounted longways front and back…I don't know how long your fence is, so I didn't have a clue….IF it is,
get your wife to help hold up the table while you slide a couple of clamps across the top to clamp it down to the angle iron….temporarly….. Then you can level the table at the front better next to the saw body….Use some grip or quick clamps, get it up tight, and reach underneath and clamp the r.t. to the sawbody, in between the "metal ribs" where the holes are…....WHEW….!!! If you have room for a very,very, short pencil,

mark the holes in the r.t. as best you can…I did the same thing to my ext. table on my unisaw. I used 2--2 1/2" bolts, washers, and nuts to mount mine. But before you mount it,( unless you plan on having legs to hold it up), use a couple of 2x's to hold up the other end(you're wife's probably already gone into the house by now…lol.)..Then drill the holes in the r.t. to match. Put the bolt in with a washer, run it through, washer, and nut…..Now this is what I did…you may have a different plan….but it'll draw it up tighter' Dicks hatband!!!!!!
If you have another way, scratch everything I've written…..lol….It worked for me….three times…..


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## lanwater (May 14, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Laminating the Extension Table*
> 
> Having successfully glued the two faces of MDF together, and trimming to the exact size, lamination went pretty easy.
> 
> ...


your lamination looks really good Mark. I also have never seen the microdot, it looks great.
Like you I bought my laminate from Lowes and HD and yes I ended up with the borring white.

I tried scoring the laminate and snapping it but I got tear out like you did. 
I now cut mine with a circular saw. I put a sacrificial plywood behind and cut it.
The carbide on the blade will take a hit if you do tons of it but the cut is very clean. If you do that please wear a good dust mask and use some dust collection system. I am fairly sure if we breath that stuff it will stay in our lungs for a long time.

Great job!


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Laminating the Extension Table*
> 
> Having successfully glued the two faces of MDF together, and trimming to the exact size, lamination went pretty easy.
> 
> ...


@Rick: that's roughly what I have planned. If you have been following this long-winded adventure, you know that the new table is a combo router table and saw extension table, and that I have already mounted the Incra fence to the saw.

The Incra rails provide another avenue of support, as there are T slots that face the sides of the extension table. When I talked about oak trim and fastening to the Incra rail, that's what I mean.

I do intend to use a pair of legs on the far end, too, because this 25 lb table will put a lot of weight on the Incra rails otherwise.

And finally the attachment we've been discussing to the table saw table itself. Supporting the extension table in three ways may seem like overkill, but in my book, nothing exceeds like excess! And this table will get used a lot, sometimes with weight.

As for attaching a router, I will need to route a ledge / hole for the router plate, and perhaps route a slot for a miter slot. Planning on doing both later, after the trim is attached.


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Laminating the Extension Table*
> 
> Having successfully glued the two faces of MDF together, and trimming to the exact size, lamination went pretty easy.
> 
> ...


@Ianwater: THANKS for your comments. You're right about the dust mask for that nasty laminate stuff. It's built to last, which means it will last a long time in any lungs too.


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Laminating the Extension Table*
> 
> Having successfully glued the two faces of MDF together, and trimming to the exact size, lamination went pretty easy.
> 
> ...


Hey Guryl,

I do not plan to use a router collet extension. I do plan to use a router plate, with a hole cut for it in the MDF, which should make the extension unnecessary and avoid the problem with the mounting screws.

Thanks for your comments!


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

*Mounting the Extension Table to the Fence*

[My job got in the way of progress on this project for a couple of weeks, but I am back to it, at least this week.]

Having started the extension table, I thought this was a good time to consider how I was going to mount it to the Incra fence. The Incra TS-LS Owner's Manual, on page 11, tells you exactly how to do this - for a 3/4" table:



The strip should be 1-3/4" high to support a 3/4" table. If you use these dimensions, the extension table top will align with the saw top. They suggest drilling a 3/8" hole for a 1/4" bolt to give some play for adjusting it.

But my extension table is two slabs of 3/4" MDF with Formica on top and bottom, for a total thickness of 1-5/8". By subtraction, I determined that I needed strips 7/8" high, and made prototypes that were not long enough, using scrap plywood. Because 1/8" protruded from the bottom, I decided to cut the final strips, of oak, as 3/4" square. I recalculated the position of the holes accordingly, drilled them, and mounted one:



Cutting a strip to the thickness of the table, I tested the mounting and thought I would be able to get the extension table aligned properly.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

MarkColan said:


> *Mounting the Extension Table to the Fence*
> 
> [My job got in the way of progress on this project for a couple of weeks, but I am back to it, at least this week.]
> 
> ...


looking good, and nice seeing you back at woodworking


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

*The Extension Table: The Edging*

As previously reported, I created a heavy-duty extension table out of two slabs of 3/4" MDF laminated with micro-dot Formica. The next step is adding oak edging around 3 sides, both to protect the table and to provide a solid mounting to the fence and saw.

I bought a piece of 1" thick red oak, already milled and ready to go. The extension table is currently 1-5/8" thick, so I cut strips 1×1-3/4" for the length and width of the table.

*Lots of Mistakes*

I'd love to brag about what a skilled woodworker I am, but the truth is I make a lot of expensive mistakes. I already wrote about my first attempt at gluing the MDF slabs together with glue cauls, and because I did not use a table to attach the whole thing, it was bowed, so I had to start again with a new sheet of MDF. Second time worked fine, and laminating came out well too.

*Dang! Dropped it.*

With two of the three edges attached, albeit not as perfectly as I wanted, I was ready to do the last one. But this table top is VERY heavy, and in handling it, it dropped one foot to the floor. Joan came down from the second floor, saying it had shaken the whole house. But the fall cracked the laminate on the top side and damaged a mitered corner:



At first I tried trimming a rectangle of the laminate to be replaced. But this edge is in front, where I will feed wood to the saw and router, and I wanted it to be perfect. I wasn't going to get it by replacing a rectangle. Well, Home Depot still had two sheets of the same microdot laminate, still on closeout special, so I bought another one.

They say contact cement bonds on contact, and it does, but it isn't really as permanent as you might think. With a putty knife, I was able to separate laminate from substrate, and once a big enough piece was started, could use my hands to tease it away, one section at a time, while being careful not to break or tear it.

The surfaces were not perfectly smooth, so I used my sander on the substrate side to smooth it out, then cleaned it. There was still some dried contact cement there. I cut a new piece of laminate a bit oversize as a replacement, spread more contact cement on the substrate and laminate, and carefully placed them together.

This came out reasonably well, but not perfectly. The problem is that I already had two hardwood edges there, and it is difficult to place the laminate perfectly into the corner such that the two edges line up between the edging and the laminate. Still, better than I had before, so that's progress. I sanded the hardwood corner carefully, and since I planned to round all edges anyway, figured that would help.

I cut new slots for the front edging (both the table and the oak trim/edge), such that I would now be trimming oak from the top edge, rather than the bottom, to have close to a perfect leading edge of the extension table. Glued and clamped.

*Trimming with the Router*

When I have joined wood with biscuits in the past, I have gotten edges to match up perfectly. I assumed that this would be the case, so I cut slots so that no trimming would be necessary for the top side. Well, it did not work out as well this time. The lesson I learned was that I should leave a small amount of extra material on BOTH sides to be trimmed with a router flush trim bit.

I have used a flush trim bit several times with the router, but generally for thin material like laminates. Now I had to trim a 1" thick piece of oak, which protruded about 1/8". This is far more challenging for the router - the thickness, and the hardness of the wood - than any other router work I have done.

My first mistake was not paying attention to the feed direction, and attempted to make climbing cuts with the edge trimmer against the laminate. As you can imaging, the blade bit the oak and went running. I tried the anti-climbing direction. But this seized the wood and splintered it outwards. Fortunately, I was trimming a part that would not show, the rear bottom edge. After these disasterous mistakes, I got out my Hylton router book and turned off the shop lights: it was evening anyway, and I had made enough mistakes for one day. Just like in skiing, it's important to know when to call it a day.

Hylton does not cover this exact situation, but there were two things that came to mind:

I could do a shallower climbing cut to cut some of the material out roughly, then finish with the proper direction
I was trying to trim off too much material in one pass.

The next day I resumed my work. I remounted the bit so more stuck out of the plate, so that the bearing was away from the edge, and the cutting edge was only trying for about half the width. I did three passes, and this worked much better.

For reasons I still don't understand, even though the bearing was guided by the laminate, the blade shaved some of the laminate off. No problem, this is the underside. For the top side, I put two layers of masking tape over the laminate to move the blade slightly away from the material. This prevented any shaving of laminate, but left the oak protruding about 1/64" above the laminate.

*Cleaning Up*

There was a bit of dried glue along the edges that I scraped off carefully with a putty knife. There was smears of glue from the gluing project that I cleaned up with a sponge soaked in hot soapy water.

A 1/4" rounding bit made this table top much easier to handle - the sharp oak edges tended to nick my hands here and there, and would be dangerous left exposed in the shop. It also helped on the damaged corner, as did the sanding I did with fine paper.

That's as far as I got this weekend. I am a perfectionist, and this is far from perfect. However, someone wiser than me observed that "perfection is the enemy of good enough." I'm not going to start over again, because this is good enough.

Now it looks pretty good.

*Next Steps*

The table top is probably as much as 1/16" too wide for the space between the rails. I need to trim it to fit, not snugly, but not loose either. Probably do that with the table saw, then reround the edges.

This project is taking much longer than I hoped, though not more than I expected. If only I didn't also have a demanding job… but I don't think I could make a living as a woodworker, at least not yet.


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## A10GAC (Dec 21, 2009)

MarkColan said:


> *The Extension Table: The Edging*
> 
> As previously reported, I created a heavy-duty extension table out of two slabs of 3/4" MDF laminated with micro-dot Formica. The next step is adding oak edging around 3 sides, both to protect the table and to provide a solid mounting to the fence and saw.
> 
> ...


I was on Charles Neil's website the other day and saw a tip that might help for future routing. He called it "Router Bump Cutting", basically you make a series of plunges into the edge of the work that span the entire length of the piece and then go back and just route off the "bumps". The plunges act as relief cuts that help prevent chipout on the workpiece. He has a video that explains it much better than I can…go to the "Video Tip Player" link on the right side of his homepage, then select "Woodworking" and scroll down until you see the "Quick Routing Tip: Bump Cutting" link. I tried ading a link directly to the video, but it didn't work. Here's the link to his homepage: The Workshop of Charles Neil


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *The Extension Table: The Edging*
> 
> As previously reported, I created a heavy-duty extension table out of two slabs of 3/4" MDF laminated with micro-dot Formica. The next step is adding oak edging around 3 sides, both to protect the table and to provide a solid mounting to the fence and saw.
> 
> ...


Thanks, A10GAC! This a much better solution than what I did. I learned something new with this!


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

*RHS Table Extension Complete!*

I eventually recovered from the problems reported earlier. I cut oak strips which, bolted to t-slots in the TS-LS rails, serve as supports for the table extension. In this picture you can see part of the oak rail bolted to the TS-LS rail, and you can see part of the new table extension sitting on it:



This mounting method is very convenient, because:

once the wood support is adjusted to the correct height (so that the extension table is aligned with the table saw's cast iron table), I can easily remove the extension table and put it back without realignment. Three screws on front, and three on back, from the underside of the wood supports go into the wood edging of the extension table, holding it firmly to the supports.
the extension table is very heavy. All I have to do is get it balanced on one end, and it slides into place.

The bracket hanging off of the table saw's table is no longer used. This is the original hardware for the Delta-provided extension table. I'm leaving the brackets there because, though unused, they are not in the way, and I'll know where to find them should I ever want to change the configuration.

For more support, I used the heavy-duty legs that came with the saw's original extension table. They are screwed into the underside of the extension table, and sit on the table saw's mobile base.

Here is a full view of the saw with the new extension table:


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

MarkColan said:


> *RHS Table Extension Complete!*
> 
> I eventually recovered from the problems reported earlier. I cut oak strips which, bolted to t-slots in the TS-LS rails, serve as supports for the table extension. In this picture you can see part of the oak rail bolted to the TS-LS rail, and you can see part of the new table extension sitting on it:
> 
> ...


looks fantastic - quite a bit of work, but well worth it in the long run.

what are those rectangular parts on the blade guard extension tube (one long and skinny, one squarish)?


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *RHS Table Extension Complete!*
> 
> I eventually recovered from the problems reported earlier. I cut oak strips which, bolted to t-slots in the TS-LS rails, serve as supports for the table extension. In this picture you can see part of the oak rail bolted to the TS-LS rail, and you can see part of the new table extension sitting on it:
> 
> ...


Yes, it IS quite a bit of work, but I am investing in a more accurate and easier to use system for future projects, and I think it WILL be worth it in the long run. OTOH I sure don't want to die with a perfect shop that has never been used for actual projects!

The blade guard extension tube came with a reasonably handy black plastic shelf. The size is such that I can have some paper with notes in one well, and pencils, tape measures, or tools in the longer one. Is this what you're talking about?


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## Splinterman (Mar 13, 2009)

MarkColan said:


> *RHS Table Extension Complete!*
> 
> I eventually recovered from the problems reported earlier. I cut oak strips which, bolted to t-slots in the TS-LS rails, serve as supports for the table extension. In this picture you can see part of the oak rail bolted to the TS-LS rail, and you can see part of the new table extension sitting on it:
> 
> ...


Hey Mark,
Wow…that looks real sweet….nice job.


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## tmtooljunky (Dec 3, 2008)

MarkColan said:


> *RHS Table Extension Complete!*
> 
> I eventually recovered from the problems reported earlier. I cut oak strips which, bolted to t-slots in the TS-LS rails, serve as supports for the table extension. In this picture you can see part of the oak rail bolted to the TS-LS rail, and you can see part of the new table extension sitting on it:
> 
> ...


Hey Mark,

I see your a mefffaaa boy . I used to live in south shore had some friends that live on marton road. How do you like the incra? I justed scored a 2hp general table saw for 350 and thinking of doing something like your. BTW awesome job. I actually thing of removing legs and doing a cabinet design.

Thanks again Tom


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *RHS Table Extension Complete!*
> 
> I eventually recovered from the problems reported earlier. I cut oak strips which, bolted to t-slots in the TS-LS rails, serve as supports for the table extension. In this picture you can see part of the oak rail bolted to the TS-LS rail, and you can see part of the new table extension sitting on it:
> 
> ...


TMTJ: I've lived in Meffa for about 12 years, but locals would not call me a Meffa boy, because I wasn't born here. It might be more accurate to say I'm a Peoria boy transplanted to Meffa.

I'm lovin' the Incra, as I move up the learning curve and figure out more effective ways of using it. I haven't even dug into the WonderFence part of it yet - a whole new universe of possibilities. The Incra does live up to its promise of set once, cut once, no more test cuts to see if its set right. It also lives up to repeatability claims: if I need to rip the same width again, just put an existing piece next to the blade, move the fence up to it, and it snaps into the correct notch. That's assuming you don't remember exactly how it was set; if you do, you just set to the same measure as before.

A downside of the cabinet design you're thinking of - at least, if you're using a mobile base like mine - the mobile base does not like a lot of weight on the right side. I have to re-adjust the feet to see if I can make it move more easily when in the "up" position.


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

*Where should I mount the router on my table saw?*

This has been a problem I have been thinking about for months. I would have a better idea of how to build the best router table if I had used a router table before.

My original thought was to put it on the far right side of the extension table. It would be very accessible there. The downside: the whole fence system needs to be removed, rotated 180 degrees, and set into place… every time I want to switch from router to table saw. I decided this is not convenient enough, and abandoned the idea.

The next idea was to borrow from router tables designed for table saws - such as one from Incra - on the right side of the blade:



Feeding from the front is an efficient way to work, especially for long, narrow pieces. But what about small pieces? And I would have to lean way over the table to change router bits, creating stress in my lower back. Also, working under the table for adjustments below, I would have to reach pretty far back. So this configuration doesn't work all that well.

Taking a nod from Bill Hylton's router book, in which he suggested an "offset" configuration with the router towards the front, I considered doing something similar here:



This seemed like a good compromise, but before I started cutting the new extension table, I decided to ask Mark at Incra what he thought. His reply was spot on: I was trading off ergonomics for stability. In particular, having the router up front like this reduces the infeed support. I decided this was a serious flaw with this design, and discarded it too. Mark also said that the reason people liked the router tables on the LEFT side of the blade was that it gave better ergonomics without sacrificing stability.

That sold me on this approach. I started studying LHS tables from various manufacturers - Incra and Bench Dog mainly. I love the idea of a cast iron extension, such as Bench Dog offers. And its size is perfect. However, it's a big investment, and I already invested in a router plate and template to mount it into tables… and I really wanted to build this myself.

So I built a second extension table for left of the blade - designed to replace the 8" cast iron wing that came with my saw. The dimensions were taken from Bull Dog's table: 16" wide, 27" deep. I used the same laminate and trim design as the right side. To keep the table as flat as possible from front to back, I bought some perforated angle iron stock at the hardware store and used lag bolts to attach it at intervals of 3". I cut it to length, then rounded all corners to avoid injury. These angle brackets will also be used to attach to various cabinets and a dust box on the underside later on. Here's a look at the underside:



The table is again 1-5/8" thick (two layers of 3/4" MDF, and laminate on top and bottom). I wanted to use lag bolts, but I needed to keep the top surface totally flat. I was worried about having the pointed end of the lag bolt push against the table top, creating dimples, so I used my primitive grinder to get rid of the pointed ends. This allowed me to use 1-1/2" lag bolts and take advantage of the maximum grab without any risk of dimpling the table surface:



I removed the cast iron wing. Then I used the same approach of bolting oak strips to the t-slots in the Incra fence rails (see picture in previous blog entry) for the LHS table. The table fit nicely, and I really like the look of the saw better with the new router extension on the left:



Now the router placement. I plan to center it front-to-back. Full access is possible by standing on the left side of the router/saw table. I want to place the center of the bit at least 9" from the left edge of the table, to provide enough support for wider boards. I could reasonably edge 10" or 12" boards this way, though some would hang over the edge of the table. If I need wider than that, I can route on the right side of the bit, feeding from the back of the saw instead, and still use the fence.

I decided to install a miter channel for edge work and to support feather boards. I had to figure out how far the miter channel should be from the near edge of the channel to the center of the bit. Checking out some commercial tables, I found most were between 6" and 6-3/4". I decided on 6-1/4" to allow the feather board I have to nearly reach the center of the bit, so it will work even with small bits and narrow stock..

The picture below does not have the plate centered front-to-back, but it will be. Otherwise, this is how I think I will arrange the miter channel and router plate:



I would REALLY like any comments from anyone out there - preferably BEFORE I commit to this design by cutting the grooves - from those of you with lots of router table experience - and anyone else who wants to, of course.


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

MarkColan said:


> *Where should I mount the router on my table saw?*
> 
> This has been a problem I have been thinking about for months. I would have a better idea of how to build the best router table if I had used a router table before.
> 
> ...


Mark:

Love it. Just so you know, I have a Bench Dog router extension (with Bosch 1617 router and Rocker FX lift) on the left side of my right-tilting Unisaw. It is in the perfect place and never makes me feel like I'm missing something by having a separate router table. It's easy to work on the left side…don't know why people would want it on the right side, personally.

BTW, I have the 32" TS-LS Super System on the way as we speak. I'm excited as punch to get that think running. It just take forever to make a single cut with my vintage Delta fence.

Regards,


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

MarkColan said:


> *Where should I mount the router on my table saw?*
> 
> This has been a problem I have been thinking about for months. I would have a better idea of how to build the best router table if I had used a router table before.
> 
> ...


BTW, I enjoyed your blog postings on the Incra set-up. Thanks for sharing it!


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Where should I mount the router on my table saw?*
> 
> This has been a problem I have been thinking about for months. I would have a better idea of how to build the best router table if I had used a router table before.
> 
> ...


Hey cosmo,

Thanks for your comments. I originally planned to have the router on the right of the blade. This was left over from when I thought it would be all the way on the right side of the extension table, which would be great except for having to turn the Incra fence to switch from saw to router use.

Also, I did not want to extend the left side, and the left side is generally near obstacles in my shop, so not an ideal place to stand while working there. But hey, I can turn the saw.

I am reasonably convinced that left of blade is ideal despite the obstacles in my shop.


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## nobuckle (Nov 3, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Where should I mount the router on my table saw?*
> 
> This has been a problem I have been thinking about for months. I would have a better idea of how to build the best router table if I had used a router table before.
> 
> ...


That looks really good Mark. Let me just say that you have one serious fence system, impressive. I recently finished the first phase of a router table extension for my TS. It looks like we have the same saw, Delta model 36-979. Here is what I did with mine:

















As you can see the only side I could put it on was the left side. I used this new set up for the first time yesterday while working on a project for a project for a project. It looks as though the set up you are considering is going to work out well. I also looked for advice from fellow LJs. They helped me out tremendously. I hope this goes well for you and look forward to seeing the end results. Take care.

Doug, Ohio


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Where should I mount the router on my table saw?*
> 
> This has been a problem I have been thinking about for months. I would have a better idea of how to build the best router table if I had used a router table before.
> 
> ...


Doug, I like your extension table setup. I could really use some extension like that. Having it integrated with the left wing must make it more solid, too.

I think the model number of my saw is 36-444… but it could be that that is the number for the package version I got (with extension table, left cast-iron wing, Unifence, etc). I got a special edition version that is ivory rather than blue-gray. I like the ivory color, but it wasn't the reason for getting the saw.

Charlie!, you're right that I may have to lower the router to use the saw. I have the Triton MOF001 which makes this fairly quick, but it's still one more thing. The key reason for putting the router in the wing is to share the fence with the saw: it makes an ideal router fence, and I only wanted to buy one! I also save space at the cost of flexibility of a separate table.


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## Beginningwoodworker (May 5, 2008)

MarkColan said:


> *Where should I mount the router on my table saw?*
> 
> This has been a problem I have been thinking about for months. I would have a better idea of how to build the best router table if I had used a router table before.
> 
> ...


Mark, that looks good.


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

MarkColan said:


> *Where should I mount the router on my table saw?*
> 
> This has been a problem I have been thinking about for months. I would have a better idea of how to build the best router table if I had used a router table before.
> 
> ...


I see what you mean about the accessibility issue. For me, I am designing my shop to where the left side of the table is most accessible. I guess you could put it on the far right and flip the LS when you need it (doesn't look all that hard to do when "Incra-Mark" does it).

My fear would be less stability that far on the right, which I guess you can easily accommodate with additional supports.

Because of the right side space required by the positioner arm, it does kinda limit your options a bit concerning shop design (especially in smaller shops), but I think we can be a little inventive, like putting other tools to the right side that can be safely invaded by the positioner without touching, yet still function when the Incra is contracted. For me, I'm thinking about something like the bandsaw, positioned so that the arm goes straight through the "loop." Or in the least, I could store my large sawhorses on that side. In these ways, no shop space is wasted by the extra movement of the Incra, all because you might need to rip boards at the full capacity of the fence.

Oh, well, I'm rambling. You've thought it out pretty well…I think I'd just go with the gut feel…how will it work for you?


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

*Router Table (as part of saw) finished!*

Having built the table itself (reported last time), and getting some feedback on proper layout, I completed the tasks of cutting an inset and hole for the plate and router, and cut a rabbet for the miter channel. Here it is:



Now my focus will move to under the table, building shelves and preparing to build some cabinets into the saw for essential accessories, as well as a dust collector box for the router.


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## NormG (Mar 5, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Router Table (as part of saw) finished!*
> 
> Having built the table itself (reported last time), and getting some feedback on proper layout, I completed the tasks of cutting an inset and hole for the plate and router, and cut a rabbet for the miter channel. Here it is:
> 
> ...


Great work.


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## nobuckle (Nov 3, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Router Table (as part of saw) finished!*
> 
> Having built the table itself (reported last time), and getting some feedback on proper layout, I completed the tasks of cutting an inset and hole for the plate and router, and cut a rabbet for the miter channel. Here it is:
> 
> ...


That turned out really nice. One thing I noticed from some other pics you posted was that you have a mobile base that spans the length of your saw and extension table, might I inquire as to where you purchased it?


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Router Table (as part of saw) finished!*
> 
> Having built the table itself (reported last time), and getting some feedback on proper layout, I completed the tasks of cutting an inset and hole for the plate and router, and cut a rabbet for the miter channel. Here it is:
> 
> ...


Thanks, Doug and Norman.

The mobile base is a Delta brand base for Delta saws with an extension table of 30". I have been very happy with it, though since I expanded the table 8" on right and left sides, it no longer spans the whole table. They also have one for 52" extension tables.

I bought mine at least 5 years ago, probably from Amazon. If you search for DELTA MOBILE BASE you'll find some of the longer ones at least.


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## jbertelson (Sep 26, 2009)

MarkColan said:


> *Router Table (as part of saw) finished!*
> 
> Having built the table itself (reported last time), and getting some feedback on proper layout, I completed the tasks of cutting an inset and hole for the plate and router, and cut a rabbet for the miter channel. Here it is:
> 
> ...


Looks like a very organized and satisfying effort. I have a 20 year Delta Contractor's saw, purchased new. Today I worked some more on dust control. I am doing the whole enchilada, meaning totally enclosing the saw and motor, including for miters. Not a trivial task. This has been overdue, since it is now the big dustbunny in the shop. The radial arm saw needs a little work, but is much better. I have tuned up the saw a bit, precision pulleys, link belt, WWII blade, Vega fence, zero clearance inserts, etc. Have to redo the splitter and guard situation, already have the stuff for some of that.

I have a nice dust collection system, Delta 50-760, with tubing running everywhere. I have only been into woodworking as a hobby just over a year, so still working on the shop, mostly, kinda slow because I am old and still work.

I was going to put a router table into the TS table, but finally realized that won't work in my somewhat cramped space. So a new table is on the horizon, probably build it.

My RAS I purchased new in 1970, just can't part with it. I use it as a crosscut specialist. Can't part with that old Delta TS either, to be honest, it performs just fine. The DC, RAS, and TS are all on 240V, so the electrical is pretty smooth.

I scanned through your blog entries on this endeavour. You are well on the way to a great setup, in my humble opinion. I will peruse your blog in more detail later, I am sure I will learn a few things to help me along.

Thanks for the nicely detailed posts, and have a good day.

Alaska Jim


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Router Table (as part of saw) finished!*
> 
> Having built the table itself (reported last time), and getting some feedback on proper layout, I completed the tasks of cutting an inset and hole for the plate and router, and cut a rabbet for the miter channel. Here it is:
> 
> ...


Hey Alaska Jim, you're probably not much older than me. I take a long time too - simply because I enjoy what I'm doing and don't feel like rushing, like I have to do with my job.

Check out my dust collection method: I just closed up the back of the saw (which only works with the saw is NOT tilted) and put a vent on the bottom. It works reasonably well, though recently someone suggested a better part for the bottom.


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## jbertelson (Sep 26, 2009)

MarkColan said:


> *Router Table (as part of saw) finished!*
> 
> Having built the table itself (reported last time), and getting some feedback on proper layout, I completed the tasks of cutting an inset and hole for the plate and router, and cut a rabbet for the miter channel. Here it is:
> 
> ...


Yes, I thought of doing that…......but, you know, I am not the only one living in this house, and she really does not want sawdust in the house. I have the back half of a two stall, two deep, garage for my shop. Some of my space is taken up by furnaces, hot water heater, etc. And the entrance to the house from the garage….......is right next to the TS. So I promised, I would do it right. So now I am doing it. Probably will be done in a week or two. Check out my blog for…....well….....voluminous information about my stuff. But the TS, I am going to get dust collection totally under control, and add a good outfeed table, with some storage. I will be blogging about the dust control for the TS in the next two weeks. Frankly, it doesn't make much sense, but it is the kinda stuff I like to do.

I noted you said if you had to do it all over again you would have gotten a cabinet saw. I thought the same thing…..but, being kinda …....hmmmmmm…..nostalgic, wanted to keep the saw, and besides, it does a good job. I am going to get a monster band saw soon, and then I can relegate the TS to the sleds. Have the radial arm saw for easy crosscut, and do rip on the band saw. At least that is the plan. Smaller rip I can do on my super sled (see the blog).

I have a very, strange approach to the hobby….....I frequently say that I build more jigs and fixtures in the shop so that I can build more and better…......jigs and fixtures for the shop….....(-:

I always knew that would happen. I am always into the technical angle. Just having fun doing what I like to do. It is a hobby, by gosh…...and I need a hobby, not another job.

So we need to keep in touch. I like what you are doing. More posts on the Delta Contractor's Saw soon. Look in my blog. Not projects. Another aberration…....no projects until I make something my wife demands has to be in the living room…...type of statement. Just an irrational posture, making a stance in the hobby world…..where we are supposed to be having fun….........(-:

Jim


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Router Table (as part of saw) finished!*
> 
> Having built the table itself (reported last time), and getting some feedback on proper layout, I completed the tasks of cutting an inset and hole for the plate and router, and cut a rabbet for the miter channel. Here it is:
> 
> ...


@Jim: I know well the temptation to sink all of one's time in making a better shop. I am determined to do some projects for outside of the shop. Just not ready, yet!

Actually, I have done many projects outside the shop. It's just that I was spending too much time struggling with a primitive setup that I decided to divert some time/energy for awhile. Walls, built-in desk, bookshelves, mobile workbench, and now the table saw overhaul.


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

*Shop Kitty: The Supervisor*

A few days ago I cleared off the lower shelf on my saw to take some pictures for planning. The Shop Kitty immediately began supervising.


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## EEngineer (Jul 4, 2008)

MarkColan said:


> *Shop Kitty: The Supervisor*
> 
> A few days ago I cleared off the lower shelf on my saw to take some pictures for planning. The Shop Kitty immediately began supervising.


Awww… I have three cats; they all love to investigate the shop - none of them will stay after powering up equipment, however.


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

MarkColan said:


> *Shop Kitty: The Supervisor*
> 
> A few days ago I cleared off the lower shelf on my saw to take some pictures for planning. The Shop Kitty immediately began supervising.


pretty kitty.
reminds me of my cat - whenever the camera comes out, no matter where I am on the property, there is the cat standing/sitting directly in-between the camera lens and the subject of my photography.


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Shop Kitty: The Supervisor*
> 
> A few days ago I cleared off the lower shelf on my saw to take some pictures for planning. The Shop Kitty immediately began supervising.


EE, Yup, we have three cats, too. But in the wee hours (this picture was taken one night when I could not sleep) it is Greydon who most wants to hang out with me.

MsDeb: I'm not sure I understand your comment. Are you saying there are other subjects for photography other than your cat? ;-)


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

MarkColan said:


> *Shop Kitty: The Supervisor*
> 
> A few days ago I cleared off the lower shelf on my saw to take some pictures for planning. The Shop Kitty immediately began supervising.


haha good point.. what was I thinking!


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## jbertelson (Sep 26, 2009)

MarkColan said:


> *Shop Kitty: The Supervisor*
> 
> A few days ago I cleared off the lower shelf on my saw to take some pictures for planning. The Shop Kitty immediately began supervising.


No cats, just a bird, and he isn't allowed in the shop when power tools are in use. Actually he only gets there if I am down there planning or measuring something so that I can design things on the computer. He hangs out on my shoulder or in the bay window in my office on his jungle gym. If he is sitting on my shoulder, he gets to ride around if it is safe.

Jim


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## bigike (May 25, 2009)

MarkColan said:


> *Shop Kitty: The Supervisor*
> 
> A few days ago I cleared off the lower shelf on my saw to take some pictures for planning. The Shop Kitty immediately began supervising.


I was looking at the pics of the saw setup and install of the fence and router plate nice job! I need to do the same for my saw but i want to make a torsion box top for mine and if i can get the space in my shop i want an out feed table on the back where i will put my router plate and my incra fence. I have a unisaw with the 52" cut on the right side of the blade, i also want to get a right side wing for it too. I'll post the progress when it starts


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## MarkColan (Aug 11, 2010)

MarkColan said:


> *Shop Kitty: The Supervisor*
> 
> A few days ago I cleared off the lower shelf on my saw to take some pictures for planning. The Shop Kitty immediately began supervising.


Bigike: Thanks! I look forward to reading your reports! Maybe seeing it in person, since we're near by. I built a torsion box of MDF for a workbench. My extension table is 2xMDF layers, each 3/4". The router has iron angles to hold it flat, and I may add the same for the right side extension, but it may be overkill.

The install of the fence was straightforward - just followed the instructions. All I can say is it is well designed. The router plate gets easier if you buy the template, which I did.

I have made some progress since posting my last report, and need to post a new installment.


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