# I would like Oak to look very dark



## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

I am looking for recommendations to make an oak cabinet look as dark as walnut. I really do not like using gel stain, and normal stain just seems to not be dark enough. I am looking for recommendations,
Thanks for your help,
Mike


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## WillAdams (Dec 8, 2012)

Fuming w/ ammonia?

If you want it darker (approaching black) there's always ebonizing w/ the classic vinegar-steel wool (rust) solution-- I find you have to use a grain filler 'cause the pores won't take the stain though.


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## lumberjoe (Mar 30, 2012)

Try Watco Dark Walnut danish oil. My wife loves to use Minwax Ebony stain on a lot of things. On Oak veneered plywood it comes out almost black.


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

Mike:

Stain normally, which will give contrast to the grain. Then, add some dye or stain (same or different) to your first finish coat (I like dewaxed shellac) and spray it on top (brushing works too). This will give the darkness you need without having to resort to a gel stain.

Staining alone doesn't get dark enough because it requires more absorption than the wood can yield. Using the finish as a vehicle for additional color (as a toner) will finish the job.

BTW, the same process is a great way to ebonize a project. Using ebony stain in an oil poly will really darken up a project.


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

I also concur with Joe that the Watco Dark Walnut Danish oil will probably give you the darkness you need.


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## tenontim (Feb 24, 2008)

Walnut aniline dye. Water based is the most color fast. You can top that with the Watco to even out the color and seal it.


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

Cosmicsniper--
I am dreadful at finishing….I like regular old stain and wipe on poly or lately I have been using an earlex….it has worked for me for years…well obvioulsy not this time…
When you use dewaxed shellac do you put poly or varnish over it…is it just a prep coat?

As far as Watco, I actually have some of that, and like it a lot. I put it on with sand paper and it gives an awesome finish. I have always wondered how soon can you actually poly over it?

Thanks for the help…
Mike


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I use General finishes dye/stain. With this product you can control the darkness by adding more coats or by thinning the product down will make a lighter coat.Other stains seal off the wood so after one or two coats that's as dark as it's going to get.
http://www.generalfinishes.com/retail-products/water-base-wood-stains-dyes/waterbase-wood-dye-stains#.UNCclOTAcuA


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

Yeah, shellac becomes the first coat of the finish and you just use a normal finish atop of it…but to use shellac, you need an aniline dye like TransTint to color it. I like the dyes, and therefore I use shellac a lot.

But try this instead…

Take an oak test board with an oil stain of your choice and stain normally..which will pop the grain a bit. Then, pour a little of that wipe-on poly in a cup with a slight amount of that same stain. Apply to the board, preferably with the Earlex, but even if you wipe it on you'll notice that the board will darken up with each subsequent coat…put a lot of the stain in the poly if you want it to get dark faster.

I recommend the stain first because using a toner alone can conceal the grain too much.

One of the easiest ways to solve unevenness when staining is to simply add some of the stain to the finish…but people hear the word "toner" and they freak out.


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

Experiment also using a ebony oil stain. Take a test board and stain it normally with many applications…and of course there is a limit to how dark it gets. Once at that point, apply the toner…and watch it get as pitch black as you want it.


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

Thanks everyone--these are some awesome suggestions!!!

Limberjoe--Watco is a "go to" product


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## BorkBob (Jan 11, 2011)

My granddaughter wants her china cabinet to be "dark reddish brown". I'm using cherry because I have a bunch of it and the price was right. After many trials of many products, I am using red mahogany dye mixed in denatured alcohol for the first 3-4 coats. I'm then top coating with the dye mixed in thinned amber shellac.

This (lousy) pic shows the frame with 4 coats of dye and one coat of dyed shellac. The panels have 2 coats of dye.


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

This is Varathane Dark Walnut on Quartersawn Red Oak, with lacquer as a topcoat. It is my second favorite brand of stain (first is Rodda), and is very easy to work with. It won't streak, and gives a fairly dark finish. 








This desk is the same stain on cherry. I used a washcoat of shellac as a pre-stain conditioner on the cherry desk.


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

I use cabot stains basically for the same reason jim uses the one he uses. The cabot I use is a pigment stain instead of a dye stain, so it works differently from the minwax I only rarely use now days.

However if you can't get it dark enough in one staining, you can always put a sealer coat on then glaze it darker, but unfortunately you need a pigment or gel stain for the glazing.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Minwax Dark Walnut stain, two coats. Owner didn't want anything else on it as far as a finish.


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## MedicKen (Dec 2, 2008)

I used Minwax Ebony stain on a hall table a few years ago. I did use a sanding sealer under the stain to help with the blotching of the oak. It evens out the stain and makes it more uniform. The table is almost black. I would try it on a piece of scrap first to see if it what you want.


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

Bandit…
That is just stain? I have tried that before and never had that luck….

Jim-
My favorite Woodworking store sells General Finishes…I will try a small can to see the results, I can always throw some in the earlex to darken further…

TCC-
Thanks-the sealer with pigment is a great idea

BorkBob-
What an awesome china cabinet…the color is great

Pinto,
Varthane is in our bigbox stores, but I have never herad of Rodda--I will look to try it

Thanks everyone…..


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I don't think Watco makes oak look like Walnut at all. It
overstains the pores and understains the rest.

Oak has way biger pores than walnut too, so pore filling
is in order. I have sometimes stained the filler.

I recommend experimenting with aniline dyes. Leather
dyes work.


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

MedicKen-
great idea on trying on scrap, looks like I have a lot of choices….I do use sanding sealer on most products but it usually lightens the satin, so I was going to pass it by this time, sounds like after your advice I won't need to


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

@Loren - I certainly agree that there is a difference between making oak "look like" walnut and making it the same color as walnut. Walnut typically has a lot more color variance than that, so my opinion is that if you want walnut, you just use walnut.

As for getting a stain dark, certainly it depends the natural of the stain, dye vs. pigment. The problem is that you often don't know exactly what you are getting in that regard. Often, with darker stains, it's both. And when you washcoat it, there is a limit to how dark you can get something using a stain alone. Of course, a pure dye stain is your best bet.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Well stirred stain, flooded on, allowed to dry, flooded again, THEN wiped down.

IF I had applied a top coat, might have gotten even darker.

Another source of Dark stain… Minwax makes a flavour called "Jacobean" that is about this dark.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Moke
The fact that dye stain darkens more every coat ,this includes drips or overlapping on a already dry area,for this reason it's best to apply a liberal coat and wipe it back with with a clean soft rag before it drys. This is easier if your spraying to apply then you have more time to wipe it back. If you want to experiment start with thinning the dye stain down with water 50% or whatever feels good (no problem doing more or less)and try a few coats one one the other to get a feel of how it works,of course on some scrap wood to start. It's a simple product to use once you get use to avoiding overlapping situation. If you have some throw away gloves that might save a lot of hand scrubbing to get the dye off you hands. Good luck I hope you like dye/stain as much as I do.


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## teejk (Jan 19, 2011)

I stick with MinWax or Zar. In some stores they have the sample boards on various woods that I find to be pretty accurate. And I agree with A1Jim…I never had much luck getting darker with repeated coats…once it sets up, it's usually "game over" for me.

But let me digress…I live in a very high iron area with a private well. Does anybody know how to extract the iron from the filter cartridges? Seems to me that the dried iron powder might make for an "interesting" finish on the right project.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Teejk 
To extract iron from filters let dry thoroughly firmly grab one end of filter and pound briskly on firm surface. )
Sorry I couldn't resist, forgive my weird sense of humor.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Moke, to make my golden oak cabinets look "very dark" as you ask for I add 1/2 bottle of Transtint Cordovan #6007 to 1 qt of Minwax water based, oil modified polyurethane. The number of coats determines the darkness. It works great.










If this is too dark adjust by the number of coats. Sand with 600 in between coats and it'll come out the color you want and silky smooth. Hope this helps.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Try this on a piece of scrap. Take a torch and burn it. Then lightly sand it then wet sand it with an oil like blo. You may loose some of the grain, but nothing will get it darker. The nice thing is, if you make it to dark just some light sanding lightens it.

the bad thing…..you need to be careful to not burn it up.


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

Thanks DKV….that is the very color I am looking for…..

I really am not trying to get it to look like walnut, I just want it a similar shade. I own a Portrait Studio and this is a vanity going into one of the changing rooms and it already haas some dark woods in it. I have a lot of red oak and I am trying to "use what I have" to get by on the cheap!!!

I appreciate everyone's help!!
Mike


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## teejk (Jan 19, 2011)

thanks A1Jim…but realize the filters (3M) do not give up their iron easily (that's why they cost so much). Not sure the powder would be good for anything but anybody needing orange iron powder can drop me a note and I'll send the spent cartridges.

I had some very nice black powder from my CubCadet starter rebuild a few weeks ago but I'm out of stock on that (it all ended up on the nativity barn I was building…not intended and I thought the bench was clean but impossible to contain that stuff).


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

That's nice, DKV. Exactly the method I talked about, only you are using water-compatible products to accomplish the same thing.


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## ClintSearl (Dec 8, 2011)

Darken any oil based stain with lampblack pigment paste or artists black oil paint. It's easy.


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

IF you are going to go the aniline dye route you may also want to get a lacquer wiping stain, really adds depth and color to the finished product.

As for extracting iron from a filter you might try a magnet


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

if you want to go the chemical route, do the vinegar and steelwool ,as well throw in a couple of old cut nails, sand them off first to insure no oil is on them,. let it brew a few days to a week, then try that,If it is not dark enough brew you up some green tea, not the bottled stuff, but brew about 4 bags to a pint. Then apply that to the oak, let dry and try the vinegar again, it gets dark quick. 
My personal choice would be to get a good dye and rock and roll.


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