# Cheapest wood for guitar back and sides?



## Marn64 (Apr 1, 2016)

Hey everybody,
So I finally found a person to help me bandsaw that cedar top for my guitar! Now its time for me to consider the backs and sides. As a high school senior, money is a bit of an issue for me so I am wondering which wood would be best for me for backs and sides of the guitar and spend as little as possible. The guitar is a classical style guitar by the way, if that at all influences which woods I should use.
Thanks,
Benjamin


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

An acoustic guitar typical has a lot of spruce for the tonal qualities. I believe.


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## gargey (Apr 11, 2016)

You should google around and try to find someone that makes or repairs guitars in your area. So you'll have some idea of what you're doing.

You should also consider that you may regret focusing on the cheapest wood in the long run. You don't need the most expensive wood, but choose one that is right for the job.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Cheap wood will probably equal cheap sound.


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## AZWoody (Jan 18, 2015)

I have a classical that has maple back and sides. It's highly figured but it doesn't have to be. That is probably one of the cheaper woods you can find that will work. Mind you if you buy it as a set for guitars, it's still going to be pretty expensive..

Once you get into luthier quality woods the price goes up.


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## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

I'm not a luthier, but I do play.

There isn't a ton of wood involved, so I wouldn't cheap out. The amount of work you're doing on an acoustic guitar suggests it's well worth scratching together the bucks to use decent or better materials.


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## vikingcape (Jan 3, 2013)

Hi there ben. That is an awesome endeavor you are undertaking. I am a classical guitar teacher and player so i have spent quite some time with these instruments. The back and sides should be made out of a hardwood to capture the sound and "throw" it back out thr vibration of the top. I have seen ash, maple, walnut, rosewood, etc.

This is a great site for guitar making things. These are for a dreadnought style guitar but you should be able to adapt them.
www.stewmac.com


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## Gaffneylumber (Feb 18, 2016)

I used to sell Taylor guitars and am a guitar player. You want a softwood for the top like spruce or cedar because it resonates well. For the back and sides you want a hardwood to project sound. Maple would probably be the cheapest. Maple makes loud guitars but lacks in warmth of sound (more treble,less bass). Rosewood is the most desirable sounding wood and it produces a well balanced sound. It is also very pricey. Another good option would be mahogany, although it will be more expensive than maple. It's a great sounding wood that is known for its warmth. It's great for finger picking. Sapele is almost identical in sound too if you can find it cheaper. So there is my 2 cents.


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## vikingcape (Jan 3, 2013)

Sorry it didn't come out correctly with the link. Here it is again
http://www.stewmac.com/Materials_and_Supplies/Bodies_and_Necks_and_Wood/Acoustic_Guitar_Wood/?facet=%7cWOODPART%3aBACKSSIDE

My college professor for guitar is also a builder and I will happily ask him if you need it too


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## Texcaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Walnut and Cherry work very well. So much depends on the top and the bracing of the top.

Antonio de Torres, the father of the modern classical guitar once made the back and sides of paper mache to prove his point about the importance of the guitar top.

Jeffery Yong has used Monkey Pod ... " it taps like cardboard ", with very good results.

http://www.jeffreyyong.com/

But most QS, timbers with a good tap tone and resonance will preform well.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Mahogany is a good all-round choice for a first
steel string. It can be got cheap, quartersawn
and works pretty easily, finishes well without
too much trouble. Maple is cheap but brittle 
and reversing grain may drive you nuts in smoothing
the back. Also you'll probably scorch the sides 
a bit and a darker wood will be easier to scrape
out the scorch marks on.

My first steel string was cheap, copper-colored
African mahogany it it turned out pretty well
in terms of sound.

I build flamenco guitars with Alaskan yellow cedar
backs and sides. It's easier to work with than
maple and has a similar creamy look.

The biggest bump in sound performance if you 
want the guitar to sound highly resonant imo is
to go with a "rosewood" or something recommended
by LMI as a rosewood substitute.

For a steel string mahogany or a domestic hardwood
is going to make a guitar that sounds nice for both
flat-picking rhythm and finger style. It won't
have the best projection for finger style but it
won't sound brittle or overdriven when flat-picked
with gusto.

Sets of less figured mahoganies and other woods
can be bought for pretty reasonable prices on ebay. 
Some builders may sell off extra sets they decide don't
have enough visual pop for their own guitars.


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## onoitsmatt (Mar 7, 2015)

There are a couple of luthier forums on the webs that would be better sources for advice on building guitars than the LJs. Don't get me wrong, LJ's is awesome, but guitar building is a pretty specific subset of woodworking where many of the skills, materials and methods are quite different than furniture building or wood turning or some of the other more popular forms of woodworking.

As I've been assembling materials and tools for my first guitar build (and am about half-way through a uke build for practice) I have found the luthier forums to be an invaluable resource for information. Many of the people who frequent the forums are quite generous with their knowledge and in some cases their tooling/jigs if you want/need them.

As a high school senior, I understand that money is tight. Tools and wood get expensive really quickly, which I am finding out on my own and have the means to support the idea of building a few guitars. So in your position, I would do what you are doing. Sounds like you have a nice piece of cedar to resaw into a top. Cedar is a great choice for classical guitar tops, so you're in good shape there. For back/side wood, I would recommend looking at a few of the tone wood seller's websites. Cheap doesn't necessarily equate to bad-sounding. Most of the price is based on aesthetics, so you can get a cheap back and side set that will sound great, but may have some slight blemish that wouldn't be the end of the world in your scenario. I picked up a maple back and side set for $30 which seemed a steal, even though I didn't want a maple guitar, I couldn't pass it up. I was buying some tops from the same guy and figured as long as I was paying shipping, I may as well get the $30 back/side set. I think you should be able to find something similar in price if you look.

It is a very slow process, so work with what you have when you have it, and keep looking for deals on what you need and get them when you see them. The thing I've found with a lot of the tools and materials is that shipping adds up fast. So when buying wood, I recommend buying everything you think you'll need in one go, from the same place to save on shipping. If you plan to buy brace-wood, neck blanks, fingerboards, bridge blanks, neck blocks, tail blocks, wood purfling, wood linings, headplates, etc. better figure all of that out in advance and make sure you get everything you need in one order to save additional shipping charges.

One thing I've found is that you'll spend as much time/money making jigs, moulds, forms, radius dishes, gobar decks, etc. to make the guitar as you will actually making it.

Feel free to PM me if you have questions. I'm no expert but have been plodding along getting ready for my first build for almost 2 years now. I have read volumes and am happy to share what I've learned. But I really think your best bet is to check out the luthier forums. They are all much more experienced and are really generous with their knowledge. One thing I will say is that the uke build has been an eye opener. I'm glad I started with it because I've made a lot of mistakes and am glad to have made them on the Uke rather than on a guitar that I'd probably want to keep forever just because it would be my "First".

There's also a kid, though I guess he's much older now, named Bryan Itzkin over on the Martin Guitar forum that started building guitars when he was about 12. You might look him up and see if he can impart any wisdom on you for things he learned as a young builder. There's a big difference between being 12 and being 17 or 18, but I think he may be a good resource. I know he continues to build and has built several guitars and other stringed instruments over the last several years. He's probably about your age.


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## Texcaster (Oct 26, 2013)

"One thing I've found is that you'll spend as much time/money making jigs, moulds, forms, radius dishes, gobar decks, etc. to make the guitar as you will actually making it." onoitsmatt

As Matt said gearing up is a big part of building guitars. More is needed for a flat top than an archie. You can make most everything you need. This took one week.

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/138522


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Sitka spruce


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

Stick with the advice of Loren and Onoitsmatt above, mahogany or SOFT (there is a hard) maple with absolutely no grain and go to the luthier web and forum websites for information. Also, there are some very good videos on YouTube!

Good luck on the build


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## Marn64 (Apr 1, 2016)

Thanks for the responses everyone!
I have narrowed down the project to unfigured Sapele or unfigured Soft Maple.


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## Texcaster (Oct 26, 2013)

This article has been doing the rounds for years and has influenced many. More timbers are suitable for luthiery than are not. Making ordinary timber preform well is at the heart of luthiery.

The Heretic's Guide to Alternative Lutherie Woods, by John Calkin.

"Alternative wood can also be cheaper and more accessible than standard tonewood. This can especially be an important factor to beginning luthiers. If your favorite wood should become accepted by the industry, you'll notice an astonishing price increase as it is stocked by tonewood suppliers. Instrument-grade wood is the cream of the crop and should demand a premium, but lumberyard stock can be just as satisfying to work with, and without breaking your bank account." John Calkin

http://www.guitarnation.com/articles/calkin.htm


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I have resawn walnut in the dimension approapriate
for a 2-piece guitar back and that flatsawn timber
cupped on me. Now perhaps I could have clamped
it flat…

I should also emphasize that it's maybe not so good
an idea to use quartered for the top and flat for
the back because the back will move more and that
could have an undesired effect.

If you can find a piece of ash or maple that is reasonably
quartered, it may be possible to resaw 6 pieces and
do a 4 piece back and sides from one modest board.


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## Marn64 (Apr 1, 2016)

What about Oak, is that a usable back and sides wood?


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

It will work but I think ash has a nicer appearance
and smaller pores. You can use anything that will
bend for you really. Both oak and ash bend well.

I wouldn't dissuade you from bending some practice
sides of oak. It's so easy to get and side-bending 
does take practice to do well. If you have access 
to a side-bending machine and somebody who
knows how to use it that's different. You're probably
going to have to bend your binding on a pipe anyway
so might as well get used to the idea. Plastic binding
is another way to go if you're not interested in getting
into that aspect of it on the first guitar… binding and
purfling can be maddening if you don't have all the 
right tools. If you can borrow some luthier's setup
to cut the channel you'll save considerable grief.

Purfling cutters are pretty tricky to learn how to use.
Routers are preferable generally but the jigging to
do it is kind of a pain.


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## Texcaster (Oct 26, 2013)

> What about Oak, is that a usable back and sides wood?
> 
> - Marn64


Oak, from the John Calkin link, he even discusses other timbers native to N. Amreica

http://www.guitarnation.com/articles/calkin.htm

Oak. Oak is coarse and its large pores are hard to fill, but its availability in home improvement stores makes it widely available. Quartered oak is common at lumberyards. The only thing wrong with oak instruments is that they look so much like furniture. Quartered stock displays an irregular pattern of medullary rays that add interest to the ring lines, though filling the pores with dark material draws the eye away from the rays. Oak loves to bend and is seldom cantankerous in this regard. the hardness of the wood varies across the same board, so machine sanding alone will leave the surface wavy. The trick is to machine sand and then block sand with each grit. White oak seems to have a slightly finer texture than red oak, otherwise, I don't distinguish between the two. This wood is so far outside of musicians' expectations that oak instruments always take them by surprise, especially if they hear them before seeing them. In areas where oak is commonly burned for heat, it may be held in low regard for any other use. Be brave, though. Oak is fun to work with.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

I haven't dabbled with guitars, yet, but have pumped a few psalterys and dulcimers out the door. From all my research, the back seems more to hold it all together and to contribute to the looks than to produce the sound. I've seen the same info you mentioned, which was done to support that assertion.

Keep in mind, there are ongoing arguments between people far more expert than me regarding which woods and finishes should be used in stringed musical instruments. Because of that, some experts were asked to listen to violins being played. The listening group could not see the instruments being played. They were surprised when they chose composite violins as often as the Strads.



> Walnut and Cherry work very well. So much depends on the top and the bracing of the top.
> 
> Antonio de Torres, the father of the modern classical guitar once made the back and sides of paper mache to prove his point about the importance of the guitar top.
> 
> ...


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## Marn64 (Apr 1, 2016)

> I haven t dabbled with guitars, yet, but have pumped a few psalterys and dulcimers out the door. From all my research, the back seems more to hold it all together and to contribute to the looks than to produce the sound. I ve seen the same info you mentioned, which was done to support that assertion.
> 
> Keep in mind, there are ongoing arguments between people far more expert than me regarding which woods and finishes should be used in stringed musical instruments. Because of that, some experts were asked to listen to violins being played. The listening group could not see the instruments being played. They were surprised when they chose composite violins as often as the Strads.
> 
> ...


I've been playing violin for 9, maybe 10 (I've lost count) years and I heard that article about the Stradivarius vs Modern violin test and the claims that Strads sound just as good as contemporary master violins, and I used to believe that notion. Now, I have been lucky enough to have heard two Stradivarius violins and one cello up close before and I have to say, there is something of a unique aura to their sound.


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## Luthierman (Jun 4, 2015)

Check some of your old school lumber yards around in smaller towns. Often times they have old stock of quarter-sawn (that was considered the higher grade back then) boards of redwood, cedar, or fir. Those are all excellent tone woods. For the back and sides I think you will have the best luck in finding some sort of mahogany that will suit your needs. Be careful when bending them up btw, mahogany doesn't like to cooperate. It'll snap on you if you don't pay attention. Please don't use walnut or oak. It sounds terrible. To me anyways. Good luck, and enjoy!


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Benjamin, I haven't had that wonderful opportunity. Right or wrong, I envy you for that. I don't play any musical instruments. Heck, I don't even know where the switch is to a Strad on.

When I started researching building guitars and violins, I spent as much time on finishes as anything else. I found myself wandering a fascinating serious series of rabbit trails.

In my quest for information, I found interesting the fact people more experienced than me decried the use of penetrating finishes, but went on to talk of varnishes used in the Stradivarius violins and how they contained minerals. It was interesting most ignored that those minerals would deposit in the surface cells of the wood. My assumption is, the mineral content would add to the tone of the wood.


Note: The aforementioned searches took me to resin suppliers whose instrument varnish resins ran hundreds an ounce.


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## flamenco (Oct 20, 2016)

Hello Benjamin,

I make classical guitars for a living. Making a guitar is a major undertaking, and the quality of the wood that you use is critical. East Indian rosewood is head and shoulders better than any of the regular hardwoods like maple and cherry. You can buy a B grade set for $47.50 from:

http://www.allenguitar.com/back.htm

It will make a much better finished instrument, so mow some lawns to get the money.

Finish your guitar with shellac. Nylon string instruments are very sensitive to finish, and need a thin coat of a hard finish to sound good.

Cheers,

Brian


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## Marn64 (Apr 1, 2016)

> Hello Benjamin,
> 
> I make classical guitars for a living. Making a guitar is a major undertaking, and the quality of the wood that you use is critical. East Indian rosewood is head and shoulders better than any of the regular hardwoods like maple and cherry. You can buy a B grade set for $47.50 from:
> 
> ...


What is your opinion on black walnut? I have a slab that I can use to make a fender telecaster or back and side sets but not enough for both.


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## flamenco (Oct 20, 2016)

Hello Benjamin,

Black walnut would be fine for a steel string acoustic, but for classical guitars we are always trying to get good treble, and the back wood matters a lot for that. I use East Indian rosewood for my guitars because it has low "acoustic damping". The technical term is that it is high "Q". Any other species of rosewood would be suitable too, but East Indian is the only one that can be had for such a low price.

I started out making four maple back and side guitars back in the 1960's, and after I finished my first rosewood instrument I never looked back. It was 20% better than any of the maple ones.

Cheers,

Brian


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