# Poor Man's Festool



## a1Jim

Great review Sharon


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## CharlieM1958

Excellent review.

Now you've got me wondering about the science of the noise level aspect. (Being a liberal arts major, such things are frequently mysteries to me). Here's the question: If the vacuum puts out a noise level of 70 dB, and the power tool you are using with it puts out 80 dB, is the noise level in the room greater than 80 dB because of the combined noise of the two tools, or is it just the 80 dB of the louder tool?


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## LeeJ

Hey Sharon;

I have a Fein vacuum that used to be excellent, and was nice and quiet. That is until a tile contractor borrowed it at a job site. They used it for 8 hours, sucking the dust they generated grinding concrete.

It has never been the same. Of course they made no offer to replace it, or understood why it would bother me that they did it in the first place. I rarely used it now, due to the noise it makes. Sounds like it needs bearings or something.

I am using a Rigid unit now, called a smart cart, which is quite powerful, and surprisingly quiet. It has drawers in it to hold accessories, making it pretty handy.

I would rate this vacuum a four star out of five. Five if it had the same outlets on it to plug the tool into, and would start when the tool is turned on.

Lee


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## whit

Charlie,

Sound in dB is a logarithmic scale so you don't just add the numbers. 3dB is a doubling of the sound level - but is barely noticable by most individuals - so a 70dB tool is twice as loud as a 67dB tool. 10dB is perceived as twice as loud. Given the size of the numbers in your example, the total noise would be about 80.4db. Adding the numbers as integers would yield 150dB which is a little less than 4x the sound level of a jet engine at 100' or a gun blast and up into the you-shouldn't-listen-to-that-noise-without-hearing-protection-or-you'll-lose-your-hearing levels.

In case you're interested, check out http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html.

Whit


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## CharlieM1958

Thanks for the explanation, Whit. I knew adding the numbers together could not be right, but I wasn't sure what the right number would be.


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## japanesewoodworker

One more note on the noise level readings….
Most "sound level meters" sold to the general public are NOT calibrated to a 1,000 Hz frequency. Also noise drops off as the inverse square of the distance…. if you are 3 feet away from the vacumm at 90 dBA….then in therory 9 feet away you should receive only 87 dBA. 90-3=87 ….Distance 1=3 feet …Distance 2=9 feet….

What does all of this mean ?

Get away from the noise source by "increasing" the distance. That is why you will see most dust collection system in a separate room because of the high NOISE level.


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## craftsman on the lake

I have a delta dust collection vac in the shop. It's loud but you know, most of the tools I use if for are louder, especially the table saw and planer. Particularly the planer. So, I have a couple of ear protector headsets around the shop. Even if the vac is quite the tool often isn't So ear protection is needed anyway.

Now some may think. "Hmmm…. use hearing protection that religiously. Probably won't happen". Well, I lost hearing in one ear years ago thanks to an ear disease. Protecting my one good ear is very important to me right now as I get older. So, Put your muffs on guys. You don't know how important it is till you lose it!


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## ellen35

Great review, Sharon.
Talked with an ear, nose and throat doc about hearing protection last week… says once your hearing is gone - that's it!
I agree with Dan… lets all wear hearing protection with any power tool.
Ellen


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## CampD

Great review! I to have been continplating getting a smaller dust collector to hook-up to my portable tools that I bring to job sites. Hepa-filters seams to be the way to go, but as you mentioned maybe adapting one could work.
On hearing protectors, I always wear ear muffs in the shop and sometimes double up with ear plugs (usually do when using the chainsaw).


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## richgreer

Great review. I did not even know this tool existed. I have the festool midi and I might have bought this instead if I had known it existed.

One question - Can you vary the strength of the suction? On the festool you need to dial the suction down some when using it with an ROS. Otherwise, the suction will pull the sandpaper too strongly into the wood. On the CT 22 & 32 the proper suction is determined automatically. On the Mini and Midi you have to dial it down manually.

By the way - the festool really is quiet. I cannot hear it over the sound of the tool I am using. You actually wonder if it is on - but it is.


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## PurpLev

Yes. when working with power tools - it's important to use hearing protection. I was referring to the sound levels when using this as an all around vacuum. in which case- with the Festool you could really use it without the need for ear protection - it IS that quiet. but with this one - maybe not.

*Rich*- As for the suction dial - as I mentioned in the review, this one doesn't have variable suction control, it always suck as as hard as it can. I'd trade your midi with this one  (I actually like the fact that this one has a large 10 Gal tank)


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## LateNightOwl

Excellent review! Thorough and well organized with all the info we could need.
Maybe not a Festool, but certainly a step up from the boxy little Rigid vac I am currently using for this purpose.
Thank you!


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## toddclare

This discussion reminded me of a FWW article (you might have to be a member… not sure, but it originally ran in Fine Woodworking #195), and companion video that discussed housing a shop vacuum inside a cabinet lined with noise baffling material, but with enough ventilation to allow the vac to operate. I haven't built one of these (yet) but the video seems to show a considerable difference in the resulting noise.

Thought maybe that would help or present some new options for tackling the sound?


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## PurpLev

Thanks *Todd*. the whole purpose for a small mobile dust extractor for me though is that it's mobile, small, and I don't have to put effort into building things to house it in. the noise on this one isn't THAT bad that I really want to consider hiding it in a closet. but it IS something to keep in mind when you compare it to the mother of all dust extractors - as there is a significant difference here.


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## toddclare

Oh I forgot to add, for those of you who can't see the article, the author claims the sound went from 83db with the vac alone, to 58db with the vac in the cabinet, where 60db is referenced as "normal conversation"


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## PurpLev

Yes. it is an impressive reduction in sound, But when you add up the cost of sound proofing materials, shop time to build that box, and the added steps required to empty the vac and all, in some cases it might be worth it to just upgrade to a better vac - while in other cases may be a fantastic solution.

regardless- thanks for the link - worth a read if anyone is a FWW subscriber (which is another thing I recommend)


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## mnguy

Excellent review! More of the thoughtful and thorough posting I expect from you 

I have a somewhat older version of the Alto Attix AS/E 30, and I can't recommend it enough. It is quiet, has a push to clean feature that keeps the filter from getting really clogged up, and near-HEPA filtration. It is tool-actuated, with variable suction on both tool operated and standard modes. It can also be used with bags, although I dont' use them. Great vacuum, and price competitive with the Festool and Fein.


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## KentS

Good review Sharon. Always helps to see cheaper alternatives that still perform well.

Thanks


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## Lenny

Great review Sharon. Thanks. Did you post this from NBSS or did Eli finally get you out?


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## kelvancra

On variable control, you could always add a T. You could do any of several things to relieve pressure at the tool. For example, you could install a flapper, like on a wood stove. You could install a cap, with about a third of it cut out and install pie wedge a plate on top, which would spin. Hey, poor man's flow control for a poor mans Festool.


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