# Me and McMaster Carr - rantalicious.



## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Im not much of a ranting person but I want to share my little story here with the group.

Ive been attempting to purchase files for sharpening hand saws and with the global supply of saw files at a minimum I turned to McMaster Carr after everyone else was out of stock. Now, ive never purchased from them before but ive heard nothing but good things from everyone who has purchased from them.

I went on the website and corralled all the files I needed and dumped them into my shopping cart. While reading the descriptions I couldn't find a brand name that they were selling. I figured no problem ill just email customer service and get the skinny. I had 2 parameters for this purchase. 1) They cannot be files that are made by Grobet in India. 2) They cannot be files by Nicholson made in Mexico. Ive heard bad things about each from first hand users.

Long story short: Customer service would not tell me which brand of files they carry. They don't want price shopping, company policy, blah blah blah. Ok cool, I get it. I tell them that all I want is to be assured that I wouldn't get either of the 2 brands I had mentioned. They assured me of that.

Verbatim: "Our saw files are not Nicholson's or India made"

I opened up the box before I go to work this morning, all giddy, Stef's got his files, Stef's got his files …. Take a look at the makers marks on them base "Made in Mexcio, Nicholson". You're kidding me, really?

I email customer service and end up with the same fella that assured me I wouldn't get a hunk of crap file and his response was "Im sorry Chris, you can return the files you don't want for credit to (shipping address)." Im currently biting my tongue as to not go completely bs on this gentleman.

Now you can make your own decision on how you feel but, personally, im all set with McMaster Carr. Wont catch me making a purchase there ever again. I was blatently lied to and when I call them out no one cares. I know that my measly $50 purchase is not going to ever effect their bottom line but the whole thing wasted my time and my money. Not cool MMC, very not cool.

Rant over.

EDIT: after another round of emails MMC made right and fully credited my credit card and left the files with me, no return required. Good on them. I wouldnt allow them to credit me for the purchase of the 2 file handles. There was no misappropriation in those items.

2ND EDIT: they retracted all of the charges including both file handles i had ordered. I emailed the cs rep and thanked him for being a stand up guy. Any beed between myself and MMC has been rectified. Its all about how you recover. They have recovered well.


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## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Not cool at all. I've had mixed feelings about a UK based factory, not on customer service but on very variable tool quality. They make awesome little jewelry saws and totally crap and paint-chipping chisel honing guides and tiny vices. Random sh!t happens too.

So, looks like I'll go saw file shopping and see if I find something good enough to send you an address! Do you have any specifics on the files you're after?


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## AnthonyReed (Sep 20, 2011)

Sorry to hear of your troubles Stef. Thank you from making us privy to your experience, it may help some avoid it themselves.


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## OnlyJustME (Nov 22, 2011)

That wasn't very nice. It's not just a $50 sale they lost. How many more times would you have turned to them for a purchase if it was a good experience? How many people will you tell this to or read this posting that won't buy from them now? It's all over the internet now that McMaster Carr sells cheap crap for top dollar and lies to their customers about it. It can turn into an online derecho and they could lose thousands of dollars in sales. 
Customer service just ain't what it used to be.


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## theoldfart (Sep 9, 2011)

Stef, how did you makeout with finding Simonds files?


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Still no return email on the Simonds Kevin. I've got hope though. My last resort will be turning to my father in law who works for UTC here in CT. Ive got to imagine with all the machining they do he could get his hands on some.

OJM - I agree 100%. They stock some great items and the shipping was beyond speedy. I could probably use a ton of different items from them for business as well but ill stick with Colony, Grainger, and the other guys after this experience. Like ya said I just paid top dollar for some junkers I could have bought around the corner at Home Depot.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

*"...Long story short: Customer service would not tell me which brand of files they carry. They don't want price shopping, company policy, blah blah blah. ..."*

So, knowing the above you continued with your order. IMO, your mistake here, not theirs. You were rather clearly shown their deceptive manners from the get go. At least you NOW know that that was a red flag when they would not divulge the branding on their product. Lesson learned. Thanks for sharing.


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

*HMike* given the full context of what you highlighted - Ok cool, I get it. I tell them that all I want is to be assured that I wouldn't get either of the 2 brands I had mentioned. They assured me of that.

They still should have said "I can't share that either" instead of lying, or giving out false information.

-

Regardless, it sucks. You going to try one out just to see anyway?


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## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Bottomline: MMC is now blacklisted among at least 7 guys on LJs


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## PineChopper (May 21, 2012)

Hello Chris,

Your story is just one more reason that I don't buy tools over the internet. Actually, I can't think of much that I have bought over the internet since I got my first computer in 1990.

I also won't buy anything that is made in China.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Mosquito,
My point is that the conversation should have ended when the company started spouting their deceptive policies, etc. NOT after trying to convince them otherwise.

FWIW, I have one of the "China" Nicholson files that I picked up in HD before folks started rating them. It is a minimal file and I replaced it with a new pair of Iwasaki files I hand picked personally at my local WC. Iwasaki files are a hands down winner by comparison IMO.


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## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

@ PineChopper: Depends on what you're looking for and what price you're willing to pay… I've bought a bunch of stuff on the web (almost everything, save what I can get locally) from sellers worldwide. It appeared to me that some Chinese manufacturers outperformed US manufacturers sometimes. Remember they have the factories where many "Western" stuff is made, so they get to know the products they build and can make better copies…


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Well that sucks. Sorry to hear it. Made my 1st purchase from them recently, seemed a bit odd they didn't calculate shipping at time of order.


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Mike - youre right, i should have pulled the plug on the deal but im desperate lol. The thing is that ive done my homework and know that there are very few manufacturers of saw files. Specifically there are 4. Grobet ( swiss and india made), vallorbe, nicholson, and simonds. Through my emails i had narrowed it down to them being Simonds. The assured me no india grobet and no nicholson, then i specifically asked for vallorbe and swiss grobet. He told me they did not carry those. So i was taking a very calculated risk provided i was being told the truth. In the end it was either misinformation or laziness that did me in.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I ground the knives for our molding company for at least 9 years and during that time we made all of our templates with Weinig steel template stock which is a pretty tough steel. Actually it makes good knife stock (for carving and whittling type knives after it is heat treated in the final stage before tempering). The tools we made our templates from were hacksaws, files, and grinding wheels. It was a tough steel and was hard on hacksaws and files. I made two or three templates every day. We had five Weinig molders and ended up with over 5000 different sets of molding knives and each molding knife had a template. My main supplier was MSC and Mcmaster Carr. I had a work table with a machinist vise and a file rack hanging on the wall behind the work table. In those racks we had about 150 files of every kind of size shape that you can think of. We went through a lot of files and hacksaw blades. Not only that but I also had a pretty good machine shop in the same part of the plant and so I used the same files in there as well. I was also over the engineering and maintenance of the plant. Don't get me wrong. Even though I went to engineering school and partly through machinist school I consider myself to be self taught when it comes to how I made my living in the molding plant. This means I don't claim to be a know it all. At best, I'm a jack of all trades - at worst maybe a shade tree mechanic. I personally don't have a clue as to what I would have done without MSC and Mcmaster Carr for all sorts of reasons.

So far as files made in Mexico - well welcome to globalism. However, I can imagine that a file plant for a large file company is a very high tech plant. If the plant is set up properly with good quality control procedures and other controls they should be able to make good files most anywhere in the world. That's my 2 cents.

BY the way, after a while of doing it everyday I found that for what we did with them Sandvik hacksaw blades were the best.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

I kind of agree with Mike, I was just getting ready to purchase some shellac from "shellac.net" until I saw the review they had about the "French Polish" book by Derek Jones. Not a single word of what they stated about the book is true, so I decided I was not going to buy from them if this is the way they deceive their customers.


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## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

@ Jorge, do you know of Endless Green from the UK? They're my suppliers of shellac and natural dyes, they rock.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Thanks Sodabowski but I imagine shipping from England to Mexico would pretty much kill the deal.


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Please read the original post edit. MMC made right.


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## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Argh sure… Wait… trade some Amethysts from Veracruz for shellac?


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## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Chris, good news there. Their mistake after all.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

I just re-read OP. Good on MMC, but only if they actually change their ways. NOT if they only oil squeaky wheels, if you know what I mean.


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Charles - my reasoning for not wanting the files made in mexico were due to many of poor reviews in regard to the temper of the files. In many cases they would crumble when used on the newer saw steel. Its got nothing to do with where they were made but everything to do with how they are made and the results they produce. I dont care if theyre made in prisons as long as they perform.


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## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

Good it got sorted out, but I do agree with what Mike said; Hoping it's not just a squeaky wheel thing


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## Brit (Aug 14, 2010)

Stef - Look out for a PM from me.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

IMHO, don't write MSC or McMaster Carr off. They both have 4 or 5 thousand page catalogs and if you are busy they both can save a lot of time in a pinch. If the shoe fits then wear it! No offense meant towards anyone but they both have made my life a whole lot easier than it would have been for a lot of years. I'll be the first to admit that now that I'm retired because of no fault of my own they are not so important to me. I'm sort of like an old worn out fish out of the water, now. .....................But, not all is lost - I still very much enjoy my life now in spite of it all. 

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## KayBee (Jul 6, 2009)

Might want to try calling http://westerntoolco.com They can go into the back and pull the tool off the shelf while on the phone. Don't know what's happening with their website right now, but the phone number is there, and a list of brand names. The counter people I've dealt with seem to get that I don't want junk with brand names on them.


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## blackcherry (Dec 7, 2007)

Wow what a raw deal, that person in customer service has zero integrity to put it mildly. I would like to thank you for passing along this story as I'm one who will just pass on Mcmaster Carr advertisement.


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

Stef, glad to hear MMC let you just keep the nicolson files…wanna trade a few for some Grobet USA files? 

Ahhhh, glad to see Andy in this discussion…Andy, kind sir, where do you get saw files? ( knowing if you post a link here they will be sold out in hours)


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## Brit (Aug 14, 2010)

Terry - I just hooked Stef up and once he has placed his order and they've confirmed dispatch, I'm sure he'll share the link with the rest of you.

I'm really pleased that so many woodworkers are taking an interest in filing their own saws. If we are to keep the art of saw filing alive, we need the file manufacturers to keep producing quality files. The more people who buy them, the more likely it is that retailers will keep selling them. So the fact that Grobet Swiss files are sold out in the US is good news in one way.


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

Thanks, Andy! Yes, surely it's just supply and demand causing this temporary shortage.

And, as I posted elsewhere, Joe at 2nd Chance Saw Works is offering a free second sharpening on his saws. Works for me till I can do it myself…


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## Brit (Aug 14, 2010)

Yeah, that's a good deal that Joe is offering his customers.


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## RonInOhio (Jul 23, 2010)

Where do the EZE-Lap files come from that are advertised in Lee Valley's catalog ? Anyone know ? The company
is located in N.H.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

I wonder where professional saw sharpeners get their saw files?


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

trade some Amethysts from Veracruz for shellac? 

Awww men, should have told me a couple of months ago, I spent Easter there….


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

PK - i bet they knew years ago what were finding out now and bought up all the stock all over the world. Conspiracy bro, conspiracy.


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## widdle (Mar 10, 2010)

Oh..here you are…whats up with the bench ?


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## ClintSearl (Dec 8, 2011)

Yeah, but wasn't delivery fast? Nyuk nyuk

They're my go to supplier.


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Clint - funny thing is that was the first line of my email to them! (Kinda).

Also 2nd edit posted.

Summary: were cool. Fast shippers. Carry subpar files. Id purchase again from them. They ship fast, so fast i said it twice.


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## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Finally all is well 

@ Jorge: argh! que suerte 'mano!


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## 489tad (Feb 26, 2010)

Chirs so can I send my saw now? You up and running?


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Getting there Dan. Still need a couple of saw sets and a saw vice but i could certainly use a saw to practice on so send it on over


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## Sodabowski (Aug 23, 2010)

Are you doing jewelry saw blades as well chris? I'd like mine at 75 TPI…


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## AnthonyReed (Sep 20, 2011)

Glad to hear it was resolved.

"Oh..here you are…whats up with the bench ?"-- Hahahah! Keep up the good work Widdle.


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

^ Seriously. Im signing Widdle up as my hype man and personal motivator. Posted my meager progress over at the workbench thread. Ill save ya a click … I cut the stretcher timber to rough size. That is all.

Soda - 75 tpi …. id go blind before I even got close.


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## AnthonyReed (Sep 20, 2011)

Slow and steady wins the race Stef. No need to get your lace all bunched up.


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## widdle (Mar 10, 2010)

Dude..Having dog holes, working vises and being able to use holdfasts is really nice…


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

Straight silk Tony. I was told they wouldn't bunch up. Incorrect but they feel better under my shop apron.

Widdle - some day amigo some day. Ive got July 4th weekend pegged as my next available milling day.


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## widdle (Mar 10, 2010)

July 4,Good for you…Your patient..


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