# New Shop - Where do I go from here?



## WoodZenStudent (Mar 25, 2021)

I have a 16'x40' basic building. It needs just about everything so I'm going through a bit of analysis-paralysis. I started a list of all the things I want to do. One of the first things I want to do is to close off the attic and add insulation - a requirement for cold Alaska winters. But should I do that first?

I was thinking, I could add joists for the attic so I would have a place to add insulation, electrical wiring (lights & plugs), a place to attach drywall ceiling, and to add a floor for attic storage. Unfortunately, I have to raise the attic floor over the rollup door because the previous owner made the walls so short (< 8').

After the attic floor is in, I though running electric would be next, followed by insulation, then drywall.

Thoughts?

Hopefully, you can see the pics.
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ark3-0_Xv9Qdhq1_m57YpsfBAVKXmA


----------



## RClark (Jun 1, 2012)

That's going to be a great space!

Analysis/paralysis: First, this is a fun project and the only person you have to please is you. Most anything can be worked around or changed later, so don't let indecision fester and keep you from getting things done.

You didn't say what part of Alaska. Anchorage area gets cold, but Fairbanks is a "whole 'nuther class" of cold.

If it was me, in order…

- Pics appear from inside that the outer shell is not yet weather-tight. First, do that.

- Do you have a vision or even a floor plan for the final shop layout? That will impact placement of stairs to any loft/attic area and placement if you only have it for a portion of the building space.

- Decide whether or not to have an "attic." You said the walls are only 8'. I love having a high ceiling in the shop. I can move things and swing large pieces around with ease and not worry about overhead clearance. Again, if it was me, I would only have a loft space over part of the work area, and that would be for storage. For simplicity, I would tend to leave it open, and I would likely place it over that overhead door.

- Decide on heating solution. Has to be done in close association with the decision on the attic.

- I'd get my electrical and lighting plan together. If you intend to have the electrical wiring inside the wall cavity, install electrical next.

- Insulate. Since I'm spending your money, I'd go with a professionally done foam insulation. Stud walls look like 2X6, 16" OC. If you need to insulate yourself, do faced fiberglass batts, if that's acceptable for your code requirements.

- Interior walls next. I'd consider a more solid wall for the shop than drywall. I have 7/16" OSB as the wall material in my shop. I can hang just about anything, anywhere. Closely associated with wall material is a basin concept of how you're going to use the wall space. If you're only going to hang cabinets, then perhaps drywall is a better option. But if you're likely to do things like a slat wall, then maybe a more solid material is best.

Ahhh…such an adventure. And there's much more after you get the walls up.


----------



## RClark (Jun 1, 2012)

One other thing…are there any windows in your shop? My shop only has the door and window panes in the overhead doors. I wish I had a couple windows for more natural light. Now's the time with your project to add windows since the framing is all open. Just a thought…


----------



## Barkley (Jun 28, 2019)

I also used OSB for the same reason. Foam insulation would best option. The best option for electrical is to run everything in conduit on the outside of the wall. Doesn't look as clean but it make MUCH easier to add/modify.
Paint everything white (which helps with lighting). If you put in a ceiling block it up at least 6" for clearance, this will help with heating. Epoxy on the floor would also be a good idea but don't forget to add slip proof granules. No grit and you will bust your @#%. I added extra insulation to my rollup door that is easily removed if I need to open it.
As far as your tool layout, either make out full size templates of the rough size of your tools and shuffle them around on the floor to see what you like best or make a scaled drawing with scaled templates and do the same thing (don't forget to take pictures of every layout. Man, like Ray said, this spending other peoples money is fun. Makes me feel like the bums that stand on the corner holding a cardboard sign collecting money. Do you have those in Alaska?


----------



## WoodenDreams (Aug 23, 2018)

Good time to consider your electrical wiring future needs. What machines you have now or may possibly get in the future that may require 220v, 230v 0r 240v. Right now I'm possibly considering getting a Laguna 25×2 drum sander (has advantages over a open end drum sander, but don't want to spend the big bucks). But I will need to run 230v line if I get it. We ran one my friends shop with 120v outlets every fourth stud along the wall and a couple outlets in the ceiling (incase he puts in some drop lines). Now he's also wants to add some 230v outlets. Sure would have been nice if already in before the insulation and walls up..


----------



## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

Double wall it. Insulate what you have now and frame inside that. Run the electric 8n the inner space, more insulation and then finish.


----------



## hotbyte (Apr 3, 2010)

Think about semi-permanent or permanent interior walls/partitions to make a finishing area. I don't have one in my small shop and cleanup, etc. is always a pain to move from doing construction to finishing.


----------



## WoodZenStudent (Mar 25, 2021)

RClark
I'm in Palmer so it gets a little colder than Anchorage, but nothing like Fairbanks. We had several days below zero but nothing too crazy.

The shell is not weather-tight so that is the first thing I was planning to tackle which is why I wanted to create a ceiling so I could keep the heat in. Someone mentioned keeping it open or raising the ceiling a bit since it's currently less than 8'. I kind of like that idea. One of my biggest concerns is having my tools in the space as it is and they start to rust.

Floorplan layout? Oh dear, no. I have done woodworking for years but never had a dedicated shop so EVERYTHING was on wheels. I do need to at least attempt floor layout.

I just started my electrical needs including what needs to be on a dedicated circuit. I'm going to create a Sketchup plan and let others review before committing.

I'm starting to reconsider drywall. I'm seeing OSB is an alternative. I'm also considering plumbing in air lines before I close up the wall. I can see where OSB would be easier to take down if I needed to get into the wall.

Winters are long and dark so windows might be a good option. I was afraid of losing valuable wall space as well as making it harder to keep heat in. I'm still on the fence on windows.

2Goober
My floor is plywood and I was thinking about putting down "Perfect Floor Tiles" from Lowe's and then sealing them. I like the idea of life size layout templates. I have plenty of cardboard so I might give that a try. I think it might be more realistic than having a small piece of paper.

Yes, we have those in Alaska and sadly find some of them after the winter thaw 

WoodenDreams
Great points on electricity. I'm planning a separate thread for that but so far, I am thinking of having 110 outlets every 4' as well as at least one 220 outlet on each wall and one in the floor near where I think the DC, compressor, and table saw will be located.

Madmark2
What does double-walling it do?

Hotbyte
I thought about making a closet for my DC and compressor to keep the noise down but had not thought about a dust-free room? How much dust could there be in a wood shop? 

PS, while you are spending my money, please keep in mind, we would rather spend it on TOOLS


----------



## WoodenDreams (Aug 23, 2018)

Double walling is installing two layers of sheet rock instead of just one. It does two things. A extra thickness for *Installation* in the walls and ceiling. The second is due to building codes with sprinkler system requirements (if required). Here in South Dakota, in most cases if a sprinkler system is required, installing a double layer of 5/8" thick, Type X fire rated sheet rock in both ceiling and walls, you can be exempt from requiring a sprinkler system. We did this in one of our building remodels to be exempt from installing a sprinkler system. This also lowered insurance premium costs on the building.


----------



## mawilsonWCR (Feb 18, 2021)

"...EVERYTHING was on wheels." And that is still a great strategy even if you think you have enough room. You could spend a huge amount of time with templates and 3D models, pick a plan, and weeks, days, or minutes after implementing it, decide it needs to change. Having everything on wheels makes it easy to just do it. I'm in the midst of building a 20×40 shop. Everything but a desk and the miter saw station will be on wheels. I don't imagine moving a 600# cabinet saw very often, but it's good to have the option.

"create a Sketchup plan…" I've done exactly that including shop-built furniture. Most of the stuff you might want in the shop can be found in the warehouse. Or there is something close that you can scale. There's something to be said for being able to look/walk around in the 3D space.

Surface mount electrical and air? I've gone back and forth on this for my shop. At the moment surface mounting is the winner. Sure, it looks nice to have it in the walls, but it's a shop. Like wheels on the big stuff, surface mounting allows for easier changes down the road. The only outlet that can't be moved in my shop is the one in the middle of the floor for the table saw.

Outlet location. Consider placing a quad box at 8'. Someone suggested putting each duplex in the box on a different circuit. I think I'll go that way. I'm dedicating a circuit each for the table saw (208), the compressor, and DC. I'll have 4 circuits for the walls and 1 or two for the lights.

Perfect(ion?) floor tiles from Lowes. Assuming 3/4" plywood on the floor, consider just adding a plywood overlay (stagger the joints) that's only ~$1 sf vs ~$5 sf. Or horse stall mat @ ~1.75 sf. I don't think vinyl will hold up in the shop.

OSB, Plywood or drywall on the walls. Again, a discussion I'm having with myself (a staff meeting in a one-man shop). I've ruled out drywall. It can look nice. It's easy to put up. It's low cost. And it's relatively fragile. It's a shop. stuff will bang into the walls. Now, plywood vs OSB is an active debate. I'm leaning toward plywood mostly because I think it'll hold screws better.

Closet for DC and compressor. YES! With insulation in the walls for sound dampening.

Loft or attic. Put me in the loft camp. My walls will be 14' to accommodate an RV awning. I could build out an attic, but I like the idea of the extra headroom for moving tall things. With 8' walls, you're gonna want all that extra space the gambrel roof gives you. A loft over the garage door for storage is good. I plan to have one over one of the rollup doors.


----------



## bigJohninvegas (May 25, 2014)

> RClark
> 
> Floorplan layout? Oh dear, no. I have done woodworking for years but never had a dedicated shop so EVERYTHING was on wheels. I do need to at least attempt floor layout.
> 
> ...


You sound like you are on the right track with it all. I like natural light, but windows are going to be a heat loss. How much 24 hour darkness does your area get? I am in the Las Vegas desert. So instead of cold I got extreme heat. No windows in my 3 car garage shop, but in the good weather months I have the roll up door open. 
Can you Keep the ceiling open and get enough heat? Great usable space if you can.

When setting up layout of shop, and planning electrical. Think of work flowing through the shop. 
Raw material coming in, what tool is 1st, all the way to finishing. 
Having an 110v outlet every 4' would be great. and I only have a single 220v in my shop. But as time goes on, and I upgrade tools, I am buying more 220v tools. So the dedicated outlet for the table saw and DC is a great idea. Maybe 2 outlets per wall would be better. 
And keeping it all on wheels is still a great idea. No matter how much you plan, your shop layout will always evolve. and being mobile helps with cleaning and maintenance too. 
My garage was pre finished. So all my electrical is exposed in conduit. I hate it! And as I have had to add, I have needed more conduit. So if you can put it in the walls, and a little over kill on outlets won't hurt at all. 
As far as airlines, I think I would want to keep them exposed. A simple air leak and you are cutting drywall, or OSB. Electrical done right tends to not need access wiring. Outlets, and breakers are the consumable items and you will have access to that.

How much dust in a wood shop? lol. 
So when it comes time to do finish work. You will find that you need to clean till you can eat off the floors. 
No fans out open windows. Then you can think about spraying something like Lacquer. And no cutting or sanding anything until you have sprayed all the coats your going to. Sometimes shuts down my shop for days. 
I run a Powermatic 1300TX DC, and a Jet Air filter, plus a shop vac when needed. And I am still cleaning dust before doing any spray finish work.


----------



## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

Since your giving other say in your shop layout I would suggest electrical surface mounted in conduit.
Over time you will figure out a better layout certainly don't what your electrical outlets stopped you from making changes.
Good Luck


----------



## WoodZenStudent (Mar 25, 2021)

While I can see the benefits, I'm a neat freak with ADHD so conduit on the walls would make me tweak. As far as the air lines go, I won't have as many so, maybe one on each wall won't look so bad and as mentioned, easy to address if I get an air leak.

OSB is starting to look like a better choice for hanging things. I'll keep contemplating. I can do a loft or attic. They key things for me are 1) heat retentions and 2) storage for the wife's stuff. I'm not even sure how I would close it up and insulate the roof like that.

I also store my side-by-side, snow machine, and snow blower in the shop so I was thinking about closing off part of the shop so I could avoid those smells. Lots of stuff to think about. I'm starting to get paralyzed again 

Great advice! Keep it coming!


----------



## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Have you checked the price of OSB lately?

Surface mounted electrics at least for the machines are a good way to go b/c they allow for adding/altering circuit locations in case you relocate or add a machine - which I guarantee is going to happen.

If you're a neat freak you're in the wrong hobby you'll drive yourself insane so get over it LOL.


----------



## WoodZenStudent (Mar 25, 2021)

> Have you checked the price of OSB lately?
> 
> Surface mounted electrics at least for the machines are a good way to go b/c they allow for adding/altering circuit locations in case you relocate or add a machine - which I guarantee is going to happen.
> 
> ...


Lately? No. Prices are going through the roof for everything. I love woodworking so I'm able to keep myself in check. I just have to clean the shop often.


----------



## WoodZenStudent (Mar 25, 2021)

Electric is in as well as spray foam insulation. Now I need interior wall cover. I was thinking about OSB or plywood but holy crap! I can install drywall at a fraction of the cost and put up a few sheets of OSB if I really need to hang anything.


----------



## jkm312 (Jan 13, 2020)

I went the drywall route in my shop. I run the electrical in the walls. If there is a next time I will run conduit on the walls. I did not mud or tape the drywall, just painted it. It allows you to see at a glance where the wall studs and ceiling joists are. Last fall I got rid of all the high output T8 lighting and put in 8' LED strips. WOW what a difference. 
The shop is in a larger 2 car garage, so most everything is on wheels except the RAS and Mitre saw. I wouldn't have it any other way even if I could. Shop configurations are always evolving with equipment changes, additions, deletions. Have fun with it, we all do.


----------



## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

That looks like it will be a great space!


----------



## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

You will be happier with the electrical in the walls. Surface mount is just another shelf to store dust.


----------



## Mosquito (Feb 15, 2012)

I went with 1/2" sanded BCX, and love it. Left it unpainted and never regret it. Feels like a nice place to be to me. Cozy and inviting. But then, if I were doing it at current prices, I'd be doing drywall as well lol. I'd suggest using plywood for hanging tool boards if you go that route down the road, I think it holds up a little better, and looks nicer (opinion).

Did you run any electrical in the ceiling besides lights? I've got 9 ceiling outlet boxes around my shop, and they're nice for random stuff, though I don't use all of them, but the option is nice. I made the one on the middle of the shop a locking recepticle and put a locking plug on a power strip that hangs about 4" over head height, and that one gets used a lot


----------



## Knockonit (Nov 5, 2017)

youll really appreciate the spray foam, just finished a 16 bed old folks joint, hehehe, with 6 inches every where ,dang place is a awesome even in 115 degree days, 7k sq ft and only 500 to cool a month


----------



## WoodZenStudent (Mar 25, 2021)

Mosquito, I ran 8 outlets in the ceiling so I can plug in my lights or something else if needed. I also have an extra outlet for the garage door opener.

I finally got power finished today so I can work in MY shop now. Excavation and heating are coming in mid-August. Once I have heat, I'll be golden for the winter. Drywall will have to wait until next year. Now, I have to get everything setup.


----------



## WoodZenStudent (Mar 25, 2021)

Now I need to figure out heat. I'm going to use a gas heater but not sure what size. One site said 30K BTU is sufficient, another said 80K BTU. My local big box store only has the 80K.


----------



## jkm312 (Jan 13, 2020)

Consider your extreme temps where you are, both highs and lows. HVAC is most efficient on longer run times, both heating and cooling. You will stay more comfortable with the air circulating more often with the longer run times. If it were me in this situation, I would get in touch with a HVAC contractor in your area. A right sized furnace will be less expensive to operate and keep you comfortable.


----------



## Sark (May 31, 2017)

I suggest painting the interior white--floors, ceiling and walls--regardless of what the surface is made of. Especially on dark days you won't regret stepping into a well lit shop where there are few shadows and items don't hide when in plain view.

To my mind a 4,000K led (4K) is the perfect color for shop lighting. It's bright enough but not harsh blue like the 5K high-output daylight models. 3K is just too yellow. I bought a bunch through HD and the shop is probably the brightest room in the house. For my 20×20 garage, I've got (14) 4' double bulb light fixtures. Love it.

In my shop, I put in mezzanine storage accessible with a fold down ladder. It's basically U-shaped with the sides 4' deep and the central U 6' deep. It holds a lot of stuff, and with the ladder folded up there is no obstruction on the floor. As mentioned previously, best to leave a lot of the high ceiling clear, else you'll be constantly banging lumber on the ceiling.

I suggest that you mock up your shop to get a sense of how work will flow through it. The easy way to do this is to get a couple of large sheet of drafting paper. On one sheet rule the floor plan. With other drafting paper, cut out and label rectangles to represent the shop equipment, benches and storage areas. You're table saw, for example, might be a rectangle 3'x6'. A bench 2 1/2' x 5' . With paper cutouts its very simple to slide the equipment and other objects around till you like the way it looks. I've used Sketchup a lot, but find paper cutouts to be quicker and simpler. After you've committed to a plan, you can draft it in Sketchup for detailing if needed.

Consider the work flow. Plywood and lumber are brought in one side, get stored, then cut, finished, assembled and exit the shop. A shop layout will help you figure this out. In my shops, plywood storage was always stored as close as possible to the shop door. You don't want to be dragging plywood sheets through your shop any more than necessary.


----------

