# In Defense of the European Beech Plane...



## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Well.. I don't have too much to say about those silly looking Euro Horned planes… except, after tinkering with a few, man these things can really cut! 
A friend asked me to plane his coffee-table sized slab of burly Redwood, so he could make the Epic cribbage board.
I decided to put my Euros to the test, one was already set up as a cross cut scrub and it worked amazingly well! So I went down the line, a touch on the stones and paper and gave each a test run.
Photo #1:








10" beech, 1 3/4" cutter; 8" beech 1 1/2" cutter; 10" home made?, 2" cutter; 9 1/4" 'Union cutter and chipper, 2"; 9 3/4" beech, 1 3/8" cutter. I almost have a feeling that each of these was hand crafted. They are unsigned.

Next photo, a group of better planes:

Albert & Lindner: Munchen Schutz Ulmia, 9 1/2", 1 7/8" cutter;
Nooitgedagt 9 1/2"X 2" cutter body and cutter signed;
Nooitgedagt 7" X 1 3/4" cutter
And… my favorite: Primus ECE Guarantie no. 012, with pitch adjustment(?), adjustable throat, Norris-style cutter adjuster, 9" X 2". This one is a great plane!

















The Primus blows away my other euros, and this is the one I'd keep, what with so many features seldom seen in a wood-bodied plane. Love the cutter adjuster, 'm just not a big fan of tapping a cutter into the perfect position with a little hammer.

What cha got?? If you have a favorite horned beech plane, please post a pic, or at least comment on your experiences with this type of plane.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Some of them are bedded at 50 degrees. I think that is 
something of a standard in Germany for smoothers.

I have never used one. I've been tempted on ebay
several times though.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

I had almost written them off as just curiosity pieces, relics of another time and place. That was, until I got the Primus with all the bells and whistles. I felt that the plane had potential far beyond what my unfamiliar hands were getting out of it. The one modified as a scrub was impressive too, but that may have been due to an artisan's upgrade before I ever owned it.
Thanks, once again *Loren*, for your thoughtful reply!


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)




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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

thanks,* Don!! *Have you ever taken it for a test drive?


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## bobro (Oct 24, 2014)

I have an inherited (wife's dad) classic European beech plane that I use for rough work, jack/scrub combo I guess. Works great for that. Great gaping mouth, typical of these old general-purpose planes. Haven't measured it but I think the angle is a bit steeper than 45 degrees, have to check.

Although I don't like the look of the horn, it also allows you to kind of pull as you push, standing more to the side. That may not be the "right" way, but man can you make some long deep arced sweeps and change things around so you're not continually riding the same back muscles.

The beech plane my grandfather made (long since stolen) was different, an older kind of design, early-19th century style, like a rectangular box with the upper corners rounded. The iron he'd forged was a thick piece of soft iron welded to the back of a thinner harder blade. No breaker just a thick wedge. The feel of using it was more similar to using an Asian plane than to a European plane. Sorry but I prefer that feel to the usual Euro planes! If I ever get to making a plane I'll try to recreate it.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

> thanks,* Don!! *Have you ever taken it for a test drive?
> 
> - poopiekat


I got it pretty cheap at a flea market. I planned to just flip it, but it worked so well Its in my user cabinet.


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## Ocelot (Mar 6, 2011)

Did you just post this because you have Primus up on ebay right now? 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Primus-European-Bench-Plane-Fullly-Adjustable-/331467867994?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d2d06475a

I'm trying not to be tempted.

-Paul


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## bobro (Oct 24, 2014)

> Did you just post this because you have Primus up on ebay right now?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Primus-European-Bench-Plane-Fullly-Adjustable-/331467867994?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d2d06475a
> 
> ...


Looks like the Primus Reform in that auction- does it have an adjustable mouth (Hobelmaulverstellung)? those are desirable planes and 200+ bucks new. The Primus without the adjustable mouth goes for about 170 new.

It's an ECE by the way- ECE has three lines (AFAIK)- ECE, ECE Primus, and ECE Primus Reform. And it's a Putzhobel (smoother).


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## Texcaster (Oct 26, 2013)

I started out with the Ulmia veneer plane and German tools. Rudy Demlier was the German tool man and he would visit all the factories and my school, Los Angeles Trade Tech. in the 70's. I would think L.A. a prime area for used German tools. All the old rosewood Baileys are in my tool cupboard but I only use the #6. Timber is my preferred body. The Europeans and the Chinese both have the throat opening well back from the front and a lower center of gravity in use. The shiny plane is a $14 Aldi smooth that I use for Muy Rapido timber removal.



















Mathieson smooth planes I used for years. It's good to have two at different settings. Throat well forward.










$7 Hong Kong planes with brass wear strip, my new faves. I join mandolin tops and bottoms with these.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

*Ocelot: *I would never have seen that listing, they don't ship to Canada and those listings get filtered out. I think mine is better, though he says his is unused.

*Texcaster,* nice collection, thanks for posting!!

Makes me wonder about those sets of Chinese hollow and rounds, wood bodied, for about $150. I know they're probably tiny, but if they work… I'd be interested. Has anyone dared…?

*Bobro:* I see brand new ECEs with all the fancy hardware for about $195 in the box. I got mine for $135 total, sans box. Good info, the ECE product line, and funky German terminology. I'm digging it.


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## bobro (Oct 24, 2014)

poopikat, this Mujingfang line:

http://www.mehr-als-werkzeug.de/category/Traditionell-chinesische-Hobel-3581_3587.htm

is very high quality. It seems that Mujingfang has various lines, and different distributors sell various kinds. I have the 9 3/4 inch version of the smoother depicted there, from another distributor. It is a superb plane and cost about 50 bucks including shipping. And this one, in ebony:

http://www.mehr-als-werkzeug.de/product/702962/Bench-Plane-Blade-Width-30-mm.htm

also an excellent plane.

I plan to "collect them all" eventually. The only gripe, sort of, I have is that the 64 C blades are hard as heck for a guy with just three oilstones. You'll want to get it going with a diamond stone. The 58 C blades, like my #4-ish plane, are a dream- took me a minute with a whitestone to get it shaving sharp out of the box.


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

Nice reference, PK!
Wood love an ECE plane…one o these days…
Thanks for the info on the chinese planes, everyone!


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks, Terry!

If there's one piece of info to take away here, it's that you should shop for a beech plane with as many bells and whistles as you can find. The mechanical blade setting features, I mean. aggressive scrubs may not need that stuff, but a beech Cadillac of a plane is the way to go for a smoothing plane. Just an opinion!

Those Chinese planes on eBay are mighty tempting!


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

PK: You could always build your own Chinese style planes









Like a Traditional Edge plane? Or…









A Jack plane….

Just to try them out…


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

Yes I too have a small selection which I bought on German ebay.I am well pleased with them.Have fun brother. Alistair


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

*Alistair:* I've been so fully indoctrinated toward the iron planes, I thought wooden ones were an obsolete thing of the past. But, I remained open-minded about it and I'm glad I did!!
*Bandit:* Me make a plane? Really? Jeez, I'm so far behind on things I've got planned, I'm afraid I will enjoy making planes too much, and I'll never get anything else done! When I retire, there will be time for these things, I hope!


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## ZacharyD (Oct 2, 2009)

I just spent three hours making a Dutch gerfschaaf plane. So, while not of German origin like most hand planes, it does have a little bit of that look and it works exceptionally well. This pic was taken before final cleanup and finishing, but for three hours of work it turned out ok.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Zachary: Hey, I like it! Im going to go see what I can find for You-Tube tutorials on making a plane like this. I want one! And not nearly as exotic as the typical horned plane.


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## upchuck (Nov 3, 2013)

Bad, corny, 9 year old Cub Scout joke:

If you're American when you go into the bathroom and you're American when you come out of the bathroom…
What are you when you're in the bathroom?

European.

Sorry.

chuck


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

Zachary, that's a lovely plane!
PK, go for it…planes aren't too difficult to build, wood love to see what you come up with!
Certainly the ONLY way I can afford a great wooden plane now.

I've only built two planes, this smoother went into an LJ Swap…










...if life settles down, I'd like to try one from Beech with a large front horn!


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks, *Terry*!! I need the encouragement. Actually, I do a lot of plane rebuilds, both transitional and Stanley Liberties. Never one from scratch, though. I do have some ancient cutters, hmmmmm. That smoother you made would be high on my list of future projects!
*Bandit:* Are those your own creations? They look great!


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

There is a video forum from China, and a GE Hong presents how-tos about building hand tools. From a simple frame saw, through my two planes, and even one with a metal skate. He work with a mortise chisel is something to watch! He starts the swing even before he walks the chisel to the next "target". Hammered? Nope, he uses an axe/hatchet.

A fancy vise? Nope, he will just sit on the blank of wood and chop away.

Most of the vids are in Mandarin, but some have close captioning, too. Might be worth a looksee?


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks for the lead, *Bandit!!*

Here's a link to the video I watched: 




I wish I could find a translation service, but his plane-making video was informative anyway.
I think he was probably complaining, in Mandarin, about the poor quality of US-made tools. I was truly surprised about what he can do with tools I would have tossed by now if they were mine. When time allows, I'll watch more of his stuff. Quite different to that Japanese woodworker who sits on the floor and clamps things in his feet, the traditional Japanese way.


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## bobro (Oct 24, 2014)

The traditional Chinese hammer looks like a hatchet, but it's a hammer (or mallet, whichever is technically correct). Don't know why it's shaped like that- might be aerodynamics considering the speed those guys go at, LOL. (Probably a matter of balance, really).


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## rroselavy (Apr 14, 2009)

Sorry to come at this topic late.

I have two German horned planes, an ECE scrub and ECE smoother. I like them over a cast iron plane for the lower drag, and prefer their comfy grip over coffin smoothers. Seems effortless to use when sharp. Others write about how heavy smoothers provide momentum, which must be true, but I am not so sure how beneficial. I bought a used Primus smoother with the adjustable mouth of eFlay, but the adjustable mouth came bunged up and unusable, so I keep using my fixed-mouth version for now.

I must say I am not a big fan of the metal ECE "wedge", which pretends to be a lateral adjuster when it is really more of a lateral brace. I have found instructions online that describes a method to set the iron in an ECE Primus plane, but it seems a mild form of madness to me…


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## zmann (Jan 1, 2014)

Hi there,

nice collection of planes you have got. My Favourite is an Ulmia Reformputzhobel, which is I guess a Reform smoother. It really was developed to be able to smooth out verneered work. It really does the job well. Second comes I guess is a Jack plane we call it a Raubank. It is just great fun to go at a big wooden surface like a table top and have it whistle along. 
In Germany we are using them all through our training. When I first saw a metal plane I couldn't understand how someone can use it on wood, but i guess it is just a matter of what one got used to. Anyway hold on to those horns! they are great value.

Jorg


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Nice collection of planes, *Scott!* I have no doubt that these have a great many loyal followers, I know it must be an acquired taste. My own rag-tag collection resulted from undisciplined buying, until I found a few I'd like to keep close at hand for smoothing.
Thanks,* Jorg*, also for commenting on how one type of plane is favored over another, based on one's own early orientation. We only had early 1960's Stanley #4s to train with, and very cheap 220s for small work. I have not strayed too far, but only recently have I opened my eyes to what others are using worldwide. Your preferences will help guide us in selecting planes for our own shops.


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

Poopiekat,
look at the bottom of page 5 of the ECE catalog:

http://www.ecemmerich.com/images/ece_catalog_12_english.pdf

Altough the prefered plane of Paul Sellers is a #4 metal plane, he says the longer metal ones need extra skill because of the flexing of the sole. He also find their use is more tiring than wooden ones because of their mass. 
So above #4 1/2 the transitional planes might be the best of both world.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Fascinating catalog, *Sylvain*! So many designs to choose from!
The longer ECE jointer planes would certainly find a home in my shop. I just never see them, but I'm going to looker for a retailer so I can see them up-close.

thanks for posting this!


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## bobasaurus (Sep 6, 2009)

I have an ECE Primus jack that's always given me problems in use. I think one side of the tensioning rod's cross piece is chamfered too heavily, so it always skews the blade in use. Someday I'll take it all apart and try to make improvements or buy replacement parts.


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

Scott, sweet looking set of planes, there!

Mentally, I'm 100% ready to try one of these wooden body smoothers…finances are my only excuse for NOT grabbing one now! I turned a wooden marking gauge last week…a new design to me…was amazed how pleasing the weight of the wood felt compared to brass-laden gauges! I can imagine these ECE planes have a similar feeling whilst being used?

Sorry for the stupid question, but do ALL ECE planes have that wedge feature? I don't see it on the Primus Smoother. Could be my small iPad monitor?

Regardless, Thanks for opening my eyes to another planing solution!


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Terry,
You really should own one or two of these. I still have a deeply ingrained bias toward metal planes, which is the only reason I haven't plunged headfirst into these.

BTW we have the same post count!!!


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

Yes, I've mostly used metal planes as well. Got a large Sargent tranny collection, but most are Type1's, and I never thought of them as users!  Changing my mind…

A wooden plane with adjustable mouth and fine depth controls sounds like heaven! PK, you wanna buy a goat to help finance my new Primus? LOL

good grief…nearly 4,000 posts in 1100 days…I used to think those types of LJ's were obsessed with hand tools!!!!!!


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## ZacharyD (Oct 2, 2009)

> Zachary: Hey, I like it! Im going to go see what I can find for You-Tube tutorials on making a plane like this. I want one! And not nearly as exotic as the typical horned plane.
> 
> - poopiekat


I've wanted a gerfschaaf for some time but couldn't find a full size one here in the States. You won't find a tutorial for making this type of plane; I simply pulled out my copy of Gerrit van der Sterre's book on Dutch planes, found a couple of pictures, and starting cutting. 3 hours later I had this little beauty. If you'd like a more specific write-up, I could probably produce one.

Here is an example of one, borrowed from Peter Follansbee









I also recently adapted a western jack plane into a single iron Dutch style roffel (jack plane). Very nice worked but very different grip that took some getting used to.


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

So, the little horned smoother is a gerfschaaf, and Dutch? 
That Follansbee looks like it fits my hands perfectly!
Must research…

Zach, any tips on construction would be appreciated…or photos may be enough?


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks, Zachary! That's lots of inspiration. My fear is that I'll make a plane that I'm not happy with, y'know pitch angle, bevel angle, or some other problem that makes the plane unusable.


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

Pk, those are easy to change with the NEXT build! 
Just think of the first as a prototype,


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## rroselavy (Apr 14, 2009)

Terry-

I used to see pre-owned Primus Reformed Smoothers go for as low as $80 on eBay. As always, patience is the key.

ECE advertises that the Primus planes are a wedge-less design, which more freely allows shavings to exit the mouth. The metal "wedge" I was referring to is actually what they call a "regulator", which is simply a triangular metal part affixed to the iron/cap iron assembly. It acts as a truss for bracing the lateral movement of the iron. The tensioning design eliminates backlash since the tensioning rod and spring always take up any slack released when the iron is advanced or retracted. This makes depth of cut adjustments very precise and predictable.

The following PDF details how an iron is properly set in the plane.

ECE Primus - Additional Instructions


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## terryR (Jan 30, 2012)

Wow, Thanks, Scott!
Already started a search for the Primus.


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