# Is this not a hobby?



## Finn (May 26, 2010)

I have seen threads discussing how it is hard to sell "fine woodworking items" at craft fairs etc. Making an item with tender loving care, enjoying the creative part of wood working and then we want others to pay a preimum price for our fun? If our purpose is to sell things, we need to look at the market and make things that will sell at the price folks will pay. ( In my experiance mostly under $20)
A hobby does not earn money… it costs money. A business makes money and must offer what there is a market for at a price folks will support. I make some $100 trunks and sell very few of them. When I do I am earning about $3 and hour and I love it. I have sold 15 of them in the past year. I make little money on them but it helps to fund my hobby. I also make and sell cheaper items that sell like hotcakes. These are not fine woodworking items as are the trunks. I can earn $20 and hour making these cheaper saleable items
( toys and boxes). This pays the space rent and funds my hobby (including liability insurance). 
"Attitude is every thing." Mine is, someone else is funding my hobby so it does not impact my household budget a bit….................. Life is good.


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

Hadn't quite thought about it that way Jim, but you are right. Thanks for enlightning me.


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## scrappy (Jan 3, 2009)

This is a HOBY for me too. I just like to sell things once in a while to pay for more supplies and tools!

Scrappy


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## Bogdanovich (Oct 31, 2010)

One m3 of Beech wood (woodwork grade, dry and reasonably without notches) in Serbia costs 400 EURO. 1 liter of mineral oil is 17 EURO. My monthly pay is 250-300 EURO. It will be fine if I can pay material whit woodwork money. Up to now all money I spend is from paycheck envelope. However, many LamberJocks finance work selling things, and idea of self-financed work started to wonder in my head. More money, more tools, more materials maybe even toy wheels from a shop…


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## hObOmOnk (Feb 6, 2007)

"*Sweating for Bucks Through Woodworking*
If you are selling your work, then you have entered a woodworking dimension with added complexity and stress. If you would like to discuss with other professionally-minded woodworkers topics such as: estimating, taxes, insurance, record keeping, photography, brochures, jury applications, taking credit cards, finding skilled help, sales, marketing, and a host of other issues, then this is the Forum for you."


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## MsDebbieP (Jan 4, 2007)

good point.. good point.. and good point.

so this is a good discussion to help people decide if they are in it as a hobbyist or in it as a professional.


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## Gregn (Mar 26, 2010)

For myself woodworking is a hobby, that is totally funded by myself. That isn't to say that I haven't sold a couple items along the way. I'm very passionate about my woodworking and it gives me peace of mind to create things that will be handed down through the years. In fact most of the things that I make I give away to friends and family. I have made very few projects meant just for myself. I've had people ask me why I don't make things to sell. My reply to them is simple, **if I made things to sell what would I do for a hobby then?* *

I'm not opposed to others who sell things to support their hobby or are trying to make a living doing woodwork. The Closetguy had a very good blog on working shows with your wares. He brought up some very true statements about the nature of selling items at shows. A lot of what I experienced doing gun shows was pretty much the same as working craft shows. Getting what the market will bare means being diversified enough to meet the demands of the market. When you think in terms of fine woodworking those are the type of shows you should consider. When thinking in terms of craft items this may mean making items more related to the buyers at craft shows and the demand there. In effect it means thinking in terms of the market to make a living or to support your hobby.

For some like myself woodworking is a hobby for others it may be a combination of both a hobby and a business. A choice made by each individual as to what woodworking is to them. I commend those who try to make a profit from their woodworking as there are easier ways to make a buck. I feel Lumber Jocks brings together the hobbyist and the professional to learn from each other and to give insight and knowledge from our experiences.


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## alanealane (Oct 1, 2007)

It may or may not end up being profitable, but a person could always make the things that they themselves like to make and enjoy as a final product. Then see if people would want to buy it at the price it's really worth. If you spent 100 hours making something, put on a price tag that reflects a respectable hourly wage. And don't worry about whether someone will buy it or not…Wait a minute, that's foolish…I take it back…
Sigh, there must be a fine line between building things that you enjoy building and getting some monetary compensation for your work. Unless you've got a bountiful income from a day job (or a spouse that brings home lots of bacon ;-D), the projects that you make are taking needed cash out of your pocket until someone buys the piece. Clear as mud, right?

That's what the late Sam Maloof did. He made things that he wanted to make while taking into consideration customer preference, and people loved the fact that he got so much enjoyment in the design and construction of the pieces. And what a price his work brought!! He had customers on waiting lists 6 months and longer, and there are some sorely disappointed people that he never got to do work for…

That's not a reasonable expectation for most woodworkers (who are indeed hobbyists), so just do what you love for the pure enjoyment of it, and perhaps paying customers will be drawn to give you business and a fair price for your work. Fall in love with doing the absolute best quality work you can, and people will involuntarily love what you do too. They may not be able to afford to pay you for your time/effort right away, but they'll always have admiration for what you do, and a desire that they could afford your work. They might just make it a point to save up some cash and make a purchase.

Maybe make just a few items that your wallet can support, and try to market them as best you can until your funds allow you to make another project. Otherwise, forget trying to sell things that most people see as overpriced, and just make nice things to beautify your own home and the homes of other people you care about. *Just don't place yourself in the position of having to eat sawdust stew for supper!! Or would you prefer curly maple casserole? Bubinga Bayou Bisque?* Sorry…I got goofy for a second there.
Woodworking is a labor of love. And it's undeniable that "there is more happiness in giving than there is in receiving." Just have fun!!


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

Jim, for some it is a hobby, for others, a business. I would expect that those that would be all that successful at a woodworking business know their markets, and are trying to sell what the markets will bear at a cost that they will bear. I think this site tends to get some folks that are trying to cross over from hobby to profession, and a lot of the pricing etc… questions seem to me at least, to be feelers for what the market will bear. And honestly, this is the wrong place to be asking. If I wanted to know what was selling at Craft Shows in say Salem, Oregon, I wouldn't be asking on a forum frequented by guys and gals from all over the globe, your results will get skewed with local market variation that makes the input nearly pointless. If you want to know how much, say a hand carved monkey with a clock in its belly sells for at your local craft shows, welll. go to your local craft shows and find out. Of course hand carved monkeys with belly clocks probably don't exactly fetch a premium price I am guessing…


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Jim
No woodworking Is not a hobby for me I have thousands of dollars worth of equipment based on it making money for me. Unfortunately people who work for $3 hr make it difficult for me to make a living. It lowers the value of what I do in the customers mind just like furniture in Walmart or other items made in china lowers what wood furniture is worth. I would say if you really consider it a hobby why sell at all give you projects away as gifts.I think it's great that people have woodworking as a hobby and enjoy every second their in the shop ,but many work for nothing or very low wages just because it's fun not realizing their possibly depriving others of their lively hood. This is not directed at you Jim just my point of view.


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## Eli (Mar 3, 2010)

By selling $100 trunks, you're hurting professional furniture makers, at least in your area. Why would anyone by the same trunk from a professional for $1000? Not only does it directly affect local woodworkers, but perpetuates the under-valuing of the craft.

Eli


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## richgreer (Dec 25, 2009)

For me, woodworking is both a hobby and something I like to do on a charitable basis. I have never considered it a potential source of income.

Once a year I sell crafts at a fund raiser and only recover the cost of my materials. The rest goes to a worthy charity. I have done numerous projects for my church and a few other worthy charities. This gives me a sense of "giving back" that is quite meaningful to me.

Of course, I also enjoy building stuff for my wife and me. My goal is to eventually make every non-upholstered piece of furniture in the house (and some upholstered pieces as well). With respect to each piece I want to make something unique that one could not normally buy at a store.

My equipment costs a lot of money and, from a financial perspective, this does not make sense. Most hobbies don't. I know lots of guys with $1000s of dollars in their hunting and/or fishing equipment or a large boat or an expensive country club membership. That's their choice. Woodworking is mine.


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

"I would say if you really consider it a hobby why sell at all give you projects away as gifts." 
....................If I could afford to do that, I would, but alas I need to pay for my equipment and materials. I have tried selling Trunks and wooden vases for more $ and could never do it. It took me 20 years to sell all of one item I made (fifty pieces) and I gave 22 of them away. I started selling them at $60 and finally after many years sold them at $20. Different markets, different states. ............................................
"By selling $100 trunks, you're hurting professional furniture makers, at least in your area. Why would anyone by the same trunk from a professional for $1000? Not only does it directly affect local woodworkers, but perpetuates the under-valuing of the craft". ....................The market will not bear $1000. The craft is not undervalued. It is worth what the market will support. I do understand your point of view though on taking someone elses work just like Habitat For Humanity undercut my construction job for decades. 
Here is a thought, I will sell you the trunks I make for $100 and you sell them for $1000.


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## Eli (Mar 3, 2010)

If you're making $3/hour, the market won't bear that either. You'll go out of business. Success in the market is not measured by sales, but by profitability or sustainability. $3/hour is not sustainable for most businesses. I know my shop costs more than that. Lowering the price is treating the symptom. The piece needs to be built more efficiently, which in turn brings the price down.

That's where manufacturing comes in. Manufactured furniture is not underpriced: it's extremely efficient. Custom woodworkers can't compete directly. Instead, we have to build things that are inefficient for factories. It's expensive to retool a factory for custom pieces. We fill the gaps between supply and demand.

I'm with a1Jim. I'd prefer you gave them away. If you want to sell them, that's fine, but at least acknowledge what you are doing. If your trunks are really viable in the market, I'd gladly buy them from you for $100. I'm not saying the trunk is worth $1000. Sometimes, though, a product just doesn't work as is. Innovate or die, right?

Eli

Just to be clear, are you saying $3/hour net or gross? I suspect that's not including expenses, but I hate to work on assumptions. Regardless, that hardly seems enough to live on.


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## CampD (Nov 8, 2008)

$3 an hr wont even buy me lunch and a coffee!


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

I see we differ on our approach to woodworking and I am glad that everyone here has treated each other with respect even though we may not agree. Thanks for your input guys.


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## TJCROSS (Mar 11, 2010)

I have been in the business of reproducing art, sculptures mostly, for artist for about 27 years now and I see people paying thousands of dollars for pieces that I got $100 to make. Are they worth it? Who knows but someone convinced them that it was and they believed it. I think you need to make the customer feel like they are getting something special. Something they can't get at Walmart or anywhere else and remember that people that have money to burn don't like to have what everyone else can buy! That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it..thanks for the topic Jim..


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

After working professionally all my life very long hours and hard work I retired privately on health grounds .and built two workshops, and slowly equipped them to the way I want them .I have a large purpose built wood shop and a smaller purpose built machinist shop .I have now overcome the initial high cost of buying the best machinery I could afford I now set aside an amount each month for my hobbies and buy what I like with it. I consider my shops to be art workshops I don't sell anything and don't think what it costs me per bowl ,or piece of furniture etc as I say it is not about money for me.It is about finding a way of life that makes me happy and I love my workshops believe me I just virtually *out with my family life* Live for woodworking designing and machining all sorts of artistic projects .I have been very lucky in life and despite these irritating health problems which I live with ,I love life.So for me I could never justify what I do in terms of money.But there is another way of looking at it Happiness is worth everything especially when you get to middle age and I am now 59 LOL. There are some people have yachting cars holiday homes etc I have my shops and they bring me contentment I could not find anywhere else as said out with my lovely family whom I adore.You guys here make it just that little bit better like the cherry on top of the cake Gods Bless Alistair


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## mvflaim (Dec 8, 2009)

+1 for A1Jim's comment.


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## Doom (Nov 3, 2010)

I do this for strictly fun. Over the past few years I have done many a kitchen and bathroom. Did them for almost nothing Pocket change to fund my passion. I enjoy wood working. I know I had a contractor in my area get upset with me cause I did a job he bidded on for nothing. He end up calling me, said he was tired of me under bidding him and takein food out of his family mouths. Oh well the saw stop I bought with that particular jobs money was cool. I basically pay for my tools through the jobs I do.


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## cranbrook2 (May 28, 2006)

Building birdhouses has been a hobby for me for the past 6 years since i was forced to retire at a young age BUT i have been swamped with orders like crazy for the past 2 years . I have enough orders to last me a few years as it is .
To me i started building them just to keep myself busy but it is tough to say no to people when i make anywhere from $ 50.00 - $ 100.00 a hour building them . 
The best part is i have no competition whatsoever  
If it ever feels like it is becoming a job then i will do something else .


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Not to be argumentative but I believe that when you go into any business it's you against the market. If you can't make a living it's not someone else's fault. You have to look a little closer to home. If someone else catches the fish you were hoping for … catch the next one. There are plenty.out there.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Hey Paul
If you make boats and someone makes the same boat and sells it for less than your cost how long can you wait to catch the next one ) Do you start building banjos instead ? In my opinion It has a lot to do with what resources you have and what types of talents you have.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Never had the problem. No two custom boats are really the "same". Just giving my opinion , really not wanting to create a big issue.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Apples and pears I guess, no issue hear either


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

There are other ways of making a shop pay. Way back in the late 1960's when I was in my late '20s I had a small shop in the basement. I had a Sears table saw, a Sears drill press, a rebuilt Walker Turner 16 inch bandsaw, Smith's oxyacetylene welding equipment and a small 6" Sears metal lathe. I began collecting these when I was in my late teens from money made while working part time at a local hobby shop while I went to college. A friend who worked here in Atlanta at a filming company that made television commercials knew of my shop and had worked in it with me a few times when he was hot-rodding a car and I did some welding for him. One Thursday he called and asked if I could make a junk sculpture to be used in a shoot the following Tuesday. I told him I was no sculptor, however he said it was a junk sculpture and needed no art talent. He asked how much I would charge. I figured it was a weekend project and was willing to do it for $100 plus materials, but I didn't say so. After a bit of discussion, he said he had a budget of $500. Would I do it for that? I said he had a sculpture! They needed my welding equipment in the shoot as they needed to film a man welding on the sculpture so I was there. After the shoot the fancy smantzy art director for the big ad agency from New York stopped me as I was wheeling my torch and tanks out to the car and asked what I was going to do with the sculpture? I was hoping that I could sneak out and not have to take that that ghastly and heavy sculpture out of there. I said as far as I was concerned they had paid for it and it was theirs. The New York art director was elated and said he was going to ship it home and put it in his garden. I laughed all the way home. It was kind of like the monkey who had his work in an art museum.

A couple of months later I got another call and another project. Then about every few months I would get a project - no bid - and would make $1,000 to $5000 for a few days work. The money was sporadic but out of this world! I would spend a few sleepless nights and call in sick to my day job occasionally and I was worn out when it was over, but I was able to use the money to furnish my shop with some nice Delta light industrial equipment which I still have. The projects were interesting. One was an oversize mockup of the insides of a music box with a simulated mechanism. Another was a 300 sq. ft model of a farm field with trees and a flying saucer that had to come in from outer space and land on the field and out came a water heater. There were a number of others.

Then one day I received a call from the interiors department of one of the largest Architectural companies in the US. They had heard about me and were having trouble getting someone to make a 60 foot mobile they had designed to hang in a major high-rise office and hotel complex. I took a look at it and knew how it could be accomplished with a minor change. I charged $5,000 and when it was over the fellow I was dealing with at the architectural firm quietly told me I could easily have charged three times that. I learned quickly and upped my price the next go around. Then about every few months I was called in to look at a set of drawings and negotiate how it could be accomplished and give a price. There was no competition. I always got the project as the things I did were one-of-a-kind and bridged woodworking, plastic working,and metal working. Sometimes I farmed part of it out, sometimes I did all of it myself. Always though, this was a sideline business and I held a full time job. The projects were mostly decorative details for lavish hotels which were the specialty of this firm, however I was occasionally contracted to build custom furniture for the president's home as many of the rooms were circular and no standard furniture would fit.

I was contemplating starting a full time business when the god-awful real estate bust of the late 1970's happened. My invoices were paid, however the time it took to collect became longer and longer. Large building complexes were going bankrupt and architectural firms were going out of business. I became very worried that soon I wouldn't be paid and it may create a personal bankruptcy for me so I finished up all projects and then shut the business down. A couple of years later I went through a divorce and lost the house but saved the shop. It took a few years to get a new home and set up shop again. I never worked in the basement for money again but I did accumulate one hell of a shop! I now have two metal lathes (large and small), two milling machines (large and small), oxyacetylene welding, electric stick welding, and a MIG unit, a small metal shear, roll, and brake, two bandsaws, one for wood, one for metal, plus a 4" metal cutoff bandsaw, and a metal shaper. My floor-mounted tools include a Delta Uni-saw, Delta 6" jointer, Delta wood lathe, Delta 6" floor-mounted 48" belt sander, a wood shaper, a Bel-saw thickness planer, and a Craftsman radial arm saw. I still have the Craftsman drill press and the Walker-Turner 16" bandsaw that I started with. I sold the little Craftsman 6" metal lathe and moved up to larger stuff.

I tell this story to say that you can make money in your shop and accumulate nice tools. The right situation has to be thought of or stumbled upon.

Planeman


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## Bogdanovich (Oct 31, 2010)

I LOVE to work whit wood. When you live in the country like Serbia you need something to forget reality. Alcohol, Drags (Valium or heroin it's a same)... I choose sawdust. I gave *all *my toys. I not need them when is over.
Earning money whit woodcraft is just consequence of necessity. I need material; I need tools, sending paper, mineral oil, fuel for my car… I need to finance my addiction.
USA is a free county, cyberspace is free also… Democracy is not about free elections and things like that. Democracy is when I support and defend your right to think and do things differently than me…. 
Somebody wont to live from woodwork - OK
Somebody do woodwork like pure hobby - OK
I am in between - OK - for me. 
In addition, my friend say -If you want to be happy earn the many all your life whit job you LOVE to work. -
Living from the wood? In the heartbeat. However, I cannot do that.


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## mvflaim (Dec 8, 2009)

There's an article about this subject in the latest issue of The Woodshop News. Pretty interesting read. There's even a section where you can whistleblow "underground economy" woodworkers and collect 15% of the IRS' collection.


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## huff (May 28, 2009)

I'm another one of those crazy woodworkers that actually does it full time. It's my only source of income, so by no means is it a hobby….......even though I love doing small items for gifts and charity, but that has to come after I pay the bills. LOL. We have to compete with everyone from the big box stores, furniture stores, hobbyist and even the professional that undersells everyone so he can keep work in his shop. I found over the years that my real competition is "ME". If I try to compete with Ikea, the big box stores, hobbyist and everyone else that can/or will sell something less than I can, I will only drive myself crazy and if not careful, start to either doubt my work or worse yet, start to cut corners and compromise my standards. For me, it's about being able to find your clientèle and having the ability to sell your product.(educating your customer on what you do). I remember the first time I sold an Entertainment Center for $1,000.00 and couldn't wait to get home to tell my wife that someone was going to pay me that to build a cabinet to put their TV in. I was so proud of myself that I thought I was at the top of the woodworking ladder for Home Entertainment Centers….........Little did I realize I was at the bottom of the ladder for Custom work. Today it's 10 to 15 times that. And yes, you can still buy an Entertainment Center from Ikea, Sears, Rooms to Go and a hundred other places for a few hundred dollars, but that's not my competition. 
It doesn't matter if you're a hobbyist, part time woodworker or doing it full time, know yourself, your abilities and what you want to sell and to whom you need to sell it to. Think of the customer you want or need to sell to and think about where they shop. If you want to sell high priced items, then a craft fair is probably not the best place to find that type customer.


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## smgaines (Sep 24, 2010)

I don't do woodworking as a business, but I would think that just like any other small business these days you have to find your niche. For example if you run a small mom and pop hardware store you're not going to be able to go toe to toe with one of the big box stores. You have to find a way to separate yourself from those guys. The same would go for a woodworking business. There will be a certain type of person that is going to buy custom furniture and they aren't going to Ikea to buy their furniture on a normal basis.


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## rivergirl (Aug 18, 2010)

I am a hobby woodworker- and I sometimes sell my stuff if someone comes along and wants to buy it. I don't do commision work- too much pressure LOL.  I subsidize my hobby by using only free (scavenged) wood. Therefore, what I build is determined by the wood I have and my interest in building something from that wood. I am happiest when I have a piece of free wood that I can actually build something out of. Because I use free wood and have very limited tools it would be very difficult for me to every do a commission piece. Having been self employed for 17 years and having to compete with nonprofit/government subsidized/sponsored programs that did essential the same thing I did made it difficult to compete. They didn't pay rent- I had a mortgage- etc. etc. But I made it a point to always provide a BETTER SERVICE to the best of my ability. Didn't make it easy- but it kept me on my toes. It is difficult to make a living these days in any buisness that is based in America and uses American production that is dependent upon American materials and American labor. Guess that is also true of many "service industries" like computer/IT/customer support. I'll tell you, when I call customer support and am directed/connected offshore I demand to be directed BACK to the US. Yes, I will hold thank you very much.


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## KayBee (Jul 6, 2009)

No, it's not a hobby, it's an addiction! Many people are trying to sell their wares to feed their addiction. Like true junkies, they aren't really concerned with their effects on others, as long as they can have their next fix. Guess we need a 12 step program.


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

Here is a thought - if you have really nice trunks, take a few of them over to your local mall. Show them to the store managers and the mall manager. If they are really nice and pretty durable, you can rent them to the mall and the stores for using in their displays. If you are permitted, put a price tag on them for $1000.00 with the understanding that the store gets 50%. After the period of time is over, collect them back and take them to a different mall. Holidays are coming displays are key, if you can get a $200 each as rent for displays, you get funding, they get upscale displays, you get leads and maybe even sell some. You might find the the Santa displays would look great with your trunks.


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## Brian024 (Feb 2, 2009)

It used to be a hobby, when people found out I did woodworking it seemed like everyone wanted something built. The biggest reason I've gotten from clients for needed me to build them something is they cannot find something in the bog box stores. I've gotten a lot of work from businesses around the area, so much that I had to get a business liscense just to protect myself from the tax dept.


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## huff (May 28, 2009)

KayBee, that's so funny. I think you're right, the problem is, it also applies to me…........Let me know when you have the 12 step program in place. LOL


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## closetguy (Sep 29, 2007)

The big difference between a hobbyist and a full time woodworker is the attitude. A hobbyist has a full-time job and has no pressure to meet deadlines or make a profit. Most do it because of the love of woodworking and if they sell something for a dollar profit, they are excited that someone would pay money for their creation.

A full time woodworker is constantly under the gun to generate cash flow to pay the bills, buy materials, etc. We are constantly looking for opportunities and make business decisions based on what could potentially bring in the most revenue. I couldn't make it if the only customer base I could find wouldn't spend more than $20. I will take a risk to spend $500 to do a big show knowing that the payoff could be $8000 even though I know that it also could only be $200. Unfortunately, if I have a bad weekend, I can't say "Oh well, Friday is payday". I have to say "Honey, its back to peanut butter sandwiches this week".

This is not to say that a hobbyist cannot make a good second income selling their widgets. I know many that do. I know a few that built up a good income doing it which allowed them to retire early to do it full time. It's all about your goals and determination. However, and I see this all the time, a lot of hobbyists don't understand their costs and don't understand the definition of "profit". This results in them either working for $1.50 an hour, or in some cases, actually giving the product away.

There's nothing wrong with building $20 items and selling a few of them on a weekend, especially if you get a regular paycheck on Friday. You do what makes you happy.

To me it's still basic business and marketing 101. You strive to improve on your successes and analyze your failures. If you can't sell anything over $20, you are either marketing to the wrong customer, or it's a lame product and needs to be dropped. There is no doubt in my mind that you need to find better shows. I can't see the logic in "make things that will sell at the price folks will pay". So which folks are you talking about? I prefer to find "folks" who will buy my expensive widgets at my price points. I have low cost items in my booth, but if I go to a low-end show, these are the only items I will sell, and I will normally have a bad show. *A low-end show will bring out low-end folks*. You want to do high quality shows where at least 50%+ of your customers are buying the expensive items and the cheap items are impulse purchases by the window shoppers. Sometimes it takes a while to find the right shows. Believe me, I have had my share of bad ones over the years.


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## hObOmOnk (Feb 6, 2007)

I agree with closetguy.

I've been a pro for about twelve years. I make hand-crafted items.

Here's my way of doing things:

I only do juried arts and crafts shows.
My average sales price is over $100.
My average Gross Margin (price minus direct costs) is at least 80%.
My average Production Time value is at least $75/hour.
I drop/add the items that I make based upon profitability.
I sell wholesale whenever possible and still make a good profit.


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## Rabbet (Oct 19, 2009)

I take a little bit of offence to some the replies to this topic. I do have an Ikea kitchen. I purchased it because it was good quality at an affordable price. Does that make me unsupportive of my local cabinet maker? I wish I could afford to have someone build me custom cabinets, but at upwards of $100 an hour and material costs it was well out my reach.To say someone is taking away your living by selling it for less (even as a hobby) is like saying Joe woodworker is taking away or devaluing Sam Maloofs' living or skill as an artist by making a nice copy of his iconic rocker and selling it for $5000 as opposed to $50,000. We all make choices in our daily lives to buy the leading brand or the saving money on the lesser known brand. If I had a business I would make anything I could to stay a float… even banjos ). My humble opinion.
-Rabbett


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## terrilynne (Jun 24, 2010)

I think anyone who can make a living doing what they love to do is a happy, contented person!


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## hObOmOnk (Feb 6, 2007)




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## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

I have seen your trunks and they are really nice. Based on the size I think $100 is a fare price. I don't think you are going to put anyone out of business or cause a price war. One problem with wood working is you can only make so many items to give as gifts or use in your own home before things start piling up and you begin to look like your hording. Space wood and tools do cost a lot "I have several thousand dollars tied up myself". I don't think its fare to expect you not to compete in the open market, "god bless America". Enjoy your wood working.


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

I do woodworking as a hobby, pure and simple. I owned a computer manufacturing business for 13 years so I am very aware of the manufacturing process - profit, loss, margins, and job costing. It is mostly these reasons that when I price a commission piece, the prices are with the costs of doing business calculated accordingly. I get many more people not accepting my offers than I could, but then again, I really don't want to be running a production shop until I retire. Just like I don't use the power tools to every advantage that I could. I am enjoying myself. I have been replacing my kitchen since May (not usable for 3 days) and should be done around Thanksgiving. How many people have a custom made kitchen with 6/4 cherry counters that are hand planed and scaped to mirror smooth, hand milled cherry floor, drawers with handmade dovetails, and blumotion everything?

When I am done with the kitchen, my wife has grown a list of things for me to make because of the new kitchen. Isn't this how we learn the ways not to do something? I have a few lessons learned if I choose to go into production. I am also learning the different things that I am really good at, things that need improvement, and things that I really don't want to do - even for money.

I have a lot of respect for every one of you that are running a business doing this. In this business climate, it is not fun. Lets face it, making anything as a hobby can be a whole lot of fun - right up until you have to make 30 - 300 of the same thing and you have serious deadlines to meet. Takes a little out of it. Oh, did I say that once you have this job started, the next 4 sales quotes have to be ongoing so that nothing stops?
My best to all of you that are doing this for a living, and yes I have a list of local shops that I send people to.


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## WIwoodworker (Apr 10, 2008)

I love hand crafted furniture…I could never afford to pay someone to build it for me so I learned to build it myself (give or take on the quality). I can honestly say I've never met anyone who said to me "I was thinking of having a custom piece of furniture built but I changed my mind and went to IKEA instead."

Do you think the makers of Rolls Royce sit around and fret over Hyundai?

Do any of us lamenting the devaluing of the craft pay full price for hand tailored clothing? I doubt it. We just hustle on down to the place we can buy the quality we can afford. It really is that simple.


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## JoshJock (Aug 14, 2010)

I started as most people I guess… a hobby. Just today…. a co-worker of mine saw the pen I made and she fell in love with it. she asked me how much…. and I said.. well… I am just starting doing this so I'll just charge you $15 per pen. and she was sooo happy because she was expecting to pay more… the surprise came when she asked me to make 30 pens…... yeah I know… my first thought is "Great!!!" I can probably make money… but then I have to remind myself how long it took me to make one pen. remember I am a rookie… I don't have yet the skills to make a pen in 30 mins or less. So I asked myself how much should I charge for each pen?? I heard many opinions throught out the net… some people sells them at 30 each up to 70 each. Selling pens is small potatos for most woodcrafters but for me it is an awesome thing even if I make 3/hr. I hear what you said Jim on your comment about if you have a price for your item and someone comes along and sells the same item for cheaper… what happens to you… well… that is the name of the game in BUSINESS… if you are in business of making furniture or woodpieces then that is how you will think. but people like me… which this is a hobby / semi-business… I look at it differently. Also many people who talks about stuff made in China, the cheap stuff and people don't mind pay for cheap stuff which they will end up replacing later on… yeah that will happen but it is also because people are used to "change looks" they like the idea of buying something cheap that has a particular style and then when it breaks they have the chance to buy a new one that looks different. If I buy a custom dresser and I pay $2000 and I know is going to last me forever because of its high quality that will keep me from changing the style of my room…. but If i spend $200 in a dresser which in 2 years will start deteorating and falling apart that will give me the chance to another one in a different style. That is the mind set many people have…... my two cents


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## Taigert (Nov 20, 2007)

A1Jim,
Jim you hit the nail on the head, it kills me to see it going on all over. I guess it's a good thing that I don't sell insurance for a hobby, or practice law strictly pro bono. Boy wouldn't I hear about it.

Taigert


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