# Plywood Kayak....



## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

I am interested in designing and building a wooden kayak! After reviewing several plans I think it is doable. Has anyone every built or finished one and has information to share?

These are the free plans I am considering following. The are very detailed and give dimensions , parts list , and step by step instructions.

http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/guillemot/blog/nick/ganymede_offsets_free_plans_build_ganymede_kayak

The best part is they are free and downloadable.

Thanks Gary from Indianapolis


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Check out the podcast "Hooked on Wooden Boats". It is a pretty good source of information about the world of wooden boats. Some of those Guillemot kayaks are beautiful!


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Looks pretty doable. I've never built a kayak but I have built a few boats. If you have any specific questions I can help you with, feel free to PM me.


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## AandCstyle (Mar 21, 2012)

You might consider this one from FWW:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/membership/fwnpdf/011095067.pdf

If your not a member it was in the July/August 1992 issue. The author claimed you could complete it in 2 weeks. FWIW


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

I have built several stitch and glue kayaks from Pygmy kits-Goldeneyes and Cohos. They will sell you plans as well as kits. The stitch and glue process is fast, simple, and builds a very strong hull. There are several designers of S & G kayaks, but I am convinced Pygmy's system is superior.

CLC (Chesapeake Light Craft) sells plans for several models, and there are others, whose names don't come to me right now. I don't have access to the FWW article without a trip to the library. Guillemot usually specializes in cedar strip construction, which is laborious but makes a beautiful craft.

I am concerned that that design being offered looks like a flat bottom-as near as I can tell from the photo and the dimensioned plans. The flat bottom can be very satisfactory in row boats and sailboats, but it can be dangerous in a kayak. That's because they have little to no secondary stability. With a normal V bottom or round bottom kayak, as the boat heels, you encounter resistance to further leaning (not a huge amount of resistance; you can, of course, capsize). A narrow flat bottom boat can have quite a bit of primary stability (i.e. when sitting upright), but when heeled suddenly reaches a point of no return and goes over. Don't compare it to a dory, which also has a narrow flat bottom, because the dory has sharply flared topsides which provide the secondary stability. If anybody wishes to prove me wrong here, have at it.

If you build this boat, be sure to practice some wet exits first before you take it out onto big water.

If you are interested, I can go into more detail about why I like Pygmy's stitch and glue system over all others. I can also help you through any difficult spots you might encounter. Feel free to ask.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks for all the informative and encouraging feedback. Honestly, I was unaware of so many people are experienced in boat building. I would expect because they are busy applying epoxy to the boats or in a waterway enjoying them. HAHA I am going to review all the information provided at this point.

Honestly , this first boat is to test and hone my skills.I have 20 years of woodworking experience and have owned bass boats in the past so I have a GENERAL familiarization with the processes and am familiar with learning as I go. If I enjoy the process I will purchase plans for more of a streamline plywood kayak in the future but intent to only take this to a lazy lake or reservoir in central Indiana a few times a month. I will not be launching it in any raging rapids. Just to do a little bird watching. If it turns out well I may sell it and use the proceeds to buy that streamlined version mentioned before.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

First questions : Luan or the fancy marine grade plywood?

I will be using cloth and epoxy on the hull that should completely strengthen it and waterproof the vestal. I understand Luan has voids and the marine plywood is far superior. I just don't want to over engineer the kayak. And most importantly the Luan is way cheaper and I am familiar with staining and finishing the veneer.

Let me know what you think! I am literally days away from taking the plunge and buying the goods. Thanks!!


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Voids can be a pain in the neck, not while building, but when using your boat. You can put a huge amount of effort into a boat only for a rock to find that void with only one thin ply holding the water out. I built my first (only, so far) boat from 3/8 construction grade plywood. I've coated ghe entire exterior in epoxy and am counting on the over design thickness to hold the water out should I hit that mythical rock.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

You should use marine plywood. There are 3 basic grades of marine plywood though. Aquatek, Hydrotek, and Okume. They vary in quality with Aquatek being the worst, and Okume being the best and lightest. They also vary in price accordingly. 4mm stuff I believe is somewhere around $50-60 for Aquatek, $70ish for Hydrotek, and $90-100 for Okume. Aquatech tends to splinter more than the other 2, and Hydrotek being in the middle.

Runwithscissors, this is indeed a flat bottom kayak. It does have flared sides, though. Flares about 4" at amidships. Flat bottoms do not necessarily mean less secondary stability. It depends on the flare, and the round bottom boat you are comparing it to. In this case, it should be plenty. The hard chine adds additional strength as well, which reduces the amount of framing needed and allows for a lighter boat.

It's not a particularly pretty boat, but it should perform ok. Personally, I would buy plans for a different boat. I don't like the hull shape. Plus, I prefer the strip decks. Look for a hybrid boat where you have the Stitch and glue hull and strip decking. Below the waterline it is easy to build/fix. Above the waterline is pretty.

I design boats for a living, though they are quite a bit larger and usually steel.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

I am sold on the marine plywood!

My next step is making the final decision on the plans then off to the lumber yard!

I will be posting more info very soon and thanks for all the great feedback!!


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

I agree that the chine makes the hull into a sort of torsion box (it will be very strong), but I'm not convinced it will reduce the amount of framing. In fact, the only framing in the Pygmy boats (multi-chine Coho and Goldeneye, or V bottom Arctic Tern), consists of the bulkheads, and even they may be left out. No other transverse framing at all, nor any fore and aft timbers (keel, chines, etc.). I suspect the dead flat bottom (not quite flat, as the sides, when pulled in to form the 4" flare, will create a small amount of fore-and-aft rocker) will easily "oilcan." This is why many lightly built plywood dinghies have an internal and sometimes external keel as well.

Of all the plywoods, I would vote for okume. 4 mm (about 3/16") is a good compromise between weight and strength. There are other more expensive and prettier plywoods, but they tend to be heavier. Okume isn't noted for its decay resistance, but a boat sheathed in glass and epoxy (DON'T use polyester resin, even though it's cheaper) shouldn't be a problem. I would certainly store my kayak out of the weather. UV is as hard on them as anything.

I should clarify the term "round bottom." About the only truly round bottom kayaks are racers, and they are as squirrely as you could imagine. The typical kayak (unless V bottom) should be called round bilged, as the actual bottom may be nearly flat or slightly V-ed.

If the discussion should reach the point of how to join panels to gain length, I have more opinions to vent, but I'll save those for later.


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## richardwootton (Jan 17, 2013)

Gary, I've been wanting to build a stitch and glue kayak for some time now. I'm an avid recreational kayaker, but I'm no crazy whitewater guy, class three is about as high as I go with my skills and boat. Good tip on practicing the wet exits, they're not hard at all, and I'm sure if you google it there will be several videos on YouTube. Good luck and post pictures for us!


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

Typically, chines do add quite a bit of strength and reduce the amount of framing needed. The bottom flat panel is a pretty wide area without any buckling support, however. That is the limiting factor here. A chine will not negate the need for a keel, but it will reduce need for stiffeners and bulkheads. That's what I was referring to. In a kayak, it's pretty negligible, as the small and typically round shape don't require much bracing anyway. It's more of a benefit in larger boats.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

"Voids can be a pain in the neck, not while building, but when using your boat. "

When using thin plywood like 1/4", voids can be found and marked by placing a strong light with a reflector around it very close to the plywood underneath. Darken the room and move the light around. Voids will be seen as bright spots. Mark out with a pencil on the plywood surface and work around them. Also, inexpensive exterior grade plywood can be used if you are looking for a savings. You are going to glass over the surfaces anyway. "Marine grade" only means surface grade wood is used throughout and the glue is waterproof. Exterior grade ply uses the same glue but uses cheaper inner plys with occasional voids.

However a note: I did all of this back in the 1970s while building a homebuilt plane. In the following years things may have changed. I recommend you call Weyerhaeuser or Georgia Pacific and confirm.

Planeman


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

I'm going to gave to store the 'strong light' trick for future builds, thanks Planeman.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

I would avoid any plywood from the big box stores. Their's will be fir, yellow pine, or, as you mentioned, luan. Marine grades are costlier, but worth it. And I think 1/4" is too heavy, and not needed for strength in a kayak. Though you might make a case for it-for the bottom only-in a flat bottom boat. People have used 1/8" (3 mm), but that will make a somewhat fragile boat, though very light. And don't fall into the temptation to "add a little structural support here, and bit of beefing up there," as that kind of thing leads to added, and unnecessary weight. A properly built plywood kayak, 15 to 17 feet long, should weigh no more than 35 to 45 lbs; a bit more if you have bulkheads and hatches. If you don't put in bulkheads and hatches, plan on float bags to make your boat unsinkable.

I hope I don't sound discouraging. I know you can do this. Around here (Pacific NW), we see people buy what I call "pond boats," try paddling them, discover they don't track worth a darn, are agonizingly slow, and are virtually helpless in any kind of wind, and then wonder what all the fuss was about. So they give it up, not realizing how a superior design can bring a load of fun and all-around satisfaction. You can use a good kayak for birdwatching, fishing, gunkholing, and camp-cruising. Once you've gained the necessary skills, you can take them onto big water-even the open ocean and through surf.


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## mtenterprises (Jan 10, 2011)

This is what I have built with my Boy Scouts a number of years back. I have also built a stitch and glue both were quite fun to build and paddle. If I had the space I build another one. Your selection is a good starter boat you'll get hooked and want to build others and better ones.
MIKE


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

As a one time kayaker (I'm 73 now so that was a while ago), I assume you intend this to be a flat water kayak for lakes and such. If you are thinking of trying it on whitewater, I an assure you it will get torn up rapidly (pun). A flat water kayak takes few knocks, mostly putting it in and taking it out. The bottom will take some stress as you will be stepping on it, but the sides can be made lighter. If you have the cash, look into aircraft grade Finnish birch plywood to save weight by making the sides thinner. It has many plies, comes from relatively thick to paper thin (1/64"), has no voids, and being all Birch is very strong. It usually comes in smaller sheets about 4 ft sq. If you use it you will have to learn to join the panels with a properly made scarf joint which is super strong. Aircraft plywood ain't cheap, but its good stuff! As for the waterproof glue, you can't get any better! A major supplier is http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/wp/plywood.html. The famous German Klepper folding kayaks uses this in their framing. Their covering for their kayaks is a waterproof fabric. Lightness is a factor if you have to manhandle it much or do portages. I made a nice 16 ft. plywood square stern canoe back in the 1960s. It was great on lakes and for fishing. I took it on numerous trips through and across the Okefenokee Swamp spending up to five days at a time in the swamp. I used a 9 1/2 HP outboard on it. It was vastly overpowered but I learned to handle it. Wide open, that canoe had a bow spray coming up 5 ft. on both sides! Fastest boat in the swamp! But it was HEAVY.

Planeman


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

Amazing feedback guys!


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

Question #2: What is the best way you have found to scarf the 4mm plywood? I did quick search and looks like just like in furniture building many different techniques to achieve the same goal. What would the ideal scarf joint measure?(How much overlap?) Thanks


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

Scarf joints are usually done with hand planes. You can also set up a router sled to ride on wedges. Typically they are a 1:8 ratio. So, for 4mm ply, you would want the scarf to be 32mm wide (it's a hair over 1 1/4").


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

CLC advocates the method many builders use, that is, the tapered scarf. Their literature shows how to do it. Pygmy uses a different, and I'm convinced, totally satisfactory method. They butt the ends of the planks together, and epoxy a strip of 'glass tape on each side of the joint. After the hull is assembled, the whole outside (and part of the inside, gets an overall encapsulation of glass and epoxy.

Dynamite Payson, who built a lot of prototype boats for Phil Bolger, did a test piece this way (probably using polyester resin, since that was the material he liked to work with), and tossed it onto his gravel driveway. Drove over it for a few weeks, and when he examined it, found no sign of weakness.

Pygmy originally had you use simple butt plates to join planks, which I did on my first boat, a Goldeneye. But later they switched to the fiberglass sandwich method, and that's how I did the Cohos that I built. I do not baby my boat, have landed on all kinds of beaches, and once crash-landed in heavy surf on the north side of the Brooks Peninsula, on the outer coast of Vancouver Island (you can check it out on any map of British Columbia). No damage done, even though the boat was filled with water and got tossed around by the incessant surge. I like the method because it is amply strong, and the simplest way to do it.

But tapered scarfs are good too. Use a taper ratio for scarfs (if you do it that way), of at least 8:1; some people go up to 12:1 ratio. There are various ways to taper the scarfs, but most people simply use a sharp block plane, maybe followed up by a bit of belt sanding. Don't use any glue but epoxy for this, and it's a good idea to thicken it with wood flour (such as from your sander). Makes the joint stronger, and fills any little voids.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

If I was particularly concerned about a joint coming apart, I would do the scarf joint, and then fiberglass tape the joint as well. Belt and suspenders approach.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Planeman: You're only 73, and have given up kayaking? I'm 76, and will be making my annual excursion to the west side of Vancouver Island in August. My buddy, who is now giving it up because of back issues, last paddled on the coast with us when he was 82. He'll be 84 in July this year.

MT Enterprises: That looks like the frame of a skin boat. Quite a few of them around here. In Bellingham, we have George Dyson (son of the astro-physicist Freeman Dyson) who builds "baidarkas" (Russian for "little boat") with aluminum frames and heavy nylon skins.

Corey Freedman, down in Anacortes, works with/coaches individuals building their own skin boats, using traditional wood frame methods and nylon skins.

Both of these guys have concentrated on the Aleut style, though Corey occasionally does a Greenlander, if his client prefers. You can google either one of them and learn more. Oh, Corey calls his companty "Spirit Line."


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Here's a blog entry(with pictures) on how I do 8:1 scarf joint. These boats are a little bigger but the joint is the same.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

"Planeman: You're only 73, and have given up kayaking? I'm 76, and will be making my annual excursion to the west side of Vancouver Island in August. My buddy, who is now giving it up because of back issues, last paddled on the coast with us when he was 82. He'll be 84 in July this year."

Yeah, I had to give it up a few years back due to osteoarthritis in both knees. I couldn't deal with getting in and out. And kneeling in a canoe was hell! I finally had both knee joints replaced. This gettin' old is a bunch of crap!

And for whatever its worth, the FAA required taper on an aircraft wooden member is 16:1, not easy to do in thin stuff. On thin aircraft plywood I always sanded mine in using a power sander and a jig.

Planeman


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

My dad, who lived to 99, used to say, "Growing old ain't for sissies." I am lucky in having only one bad knee. But my back has been great now for 25 years or so (did have a bad time for a couple of years, long ago). As for canoes, I cannot kneel for long; but except in the hands of a very skilled paddler, I regard them as unsafe on open water, and have never owned one.

So how is that knee replacement working out for you? My mom had one knee done, and didn't fare well with it. She vowed not to have the other one done. Her knees bothered her for years.


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## Planeman40 (Nov 3, 2010)

"So how is that knee replacement working out for you? My mom had one knee done, and didn't fare well with it. She vowed not to have the other one done. Her knees bothered her for years."

It has worked out very well. Just like having my old knees back. It does take a while to completely recover but for me it wasn't too bad. There are a couple of very minor negatives like not being able to fold my knees completely under me. If I fall or somehow end up on the floor, I can't get back up without help. Not long ago I fell in the shop. Didn't hurt myself at all, just couldn't get my knees back under me to get up. Nobody was around so I had to call 911 to have the fire dept come get me up. Great guys! They loved my shop, wanted to see everything I had built, stayed for about 30 minutes. Said "no problem, just holler if it happens again". The next day I bought a bunch of pizzas and took them to the firehouse. Lunch for everyone was on me.

Planeman


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

started making the template today.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

This is going to be my method for joining the pieces together. is


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

This is my template to create the jig. The previous photo was just the inspiration.


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## msamara (May 11, 2014)

Hi,
You can vist my webpage about DIY boat plans here

Regards


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## Westsatsop (Jan 12, 2011)

I make boat kits and one of the things we have found is that it's important to make the bulbs on your puzzle splices the same size, because the bending of the panels will place equal stresses on both sides of the joint.
So design your template in such a way that using one template will allow you to create both sides of the joint.
The downside of the traditional tapered scarf is the fact that it wastes a nontrivial amount of wood.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

The puzzle joint should make a strong panel. But it does "waste" some wood, in that the resulting plank will be somewhat shorter than 2 pieces end to end. Also, it will require precise cutting to make good fitting joints. I wouldn't use any glue but epoxy for that joint.

I see that Guillemot specifies copper wire for wiring the panels together, and then has them taken out after glue up (which is good). CLC also calls for copper wire, but then has you leave them in the boat, pushing the inside "loops" into the chine corner and sanding the copper flush on the outside. I see no advantage whatsoever to leaving the wire in the boat. It contributes nothing to the strength and creates problematic lumpiness in the inner chine making filleting and taping a pain.

Pygmy uses soft iron wire (probably about 18 gauge) and has you pull them out after glue up. The advantage is that iron is cheaper than copper, and less likely to fatigue and break off when twisting them tight. After the epoxy cures, the wires are very easy to pull out. In difficult areas (the sharp ends of the boat), stubborn wires can be heating with a soldering gun and then are easily removed. Only takes a few seconds.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

As I was reviewing the development of this thread a bit ago, I realized there was an important point concerning marine vs. ordinary plywoods. The cheap stuff, Luan etc. has extremely thin face veneers. I mean paper thin. Be careful with the sanding or you'll go right into the inner ply. Marine grade (such as Brynzeel) has all plies the same thickness. This is much superior-stronger, and able to stand some sanding without going too deep. The "BS 1088" designation, by the way (on the Edensaw website for Hydrotek and Aquatek) is a Lloyd's of London specification. And Okume is not a grade of plywood, but a wood species. Meranti and Keruing (aka apitong) are also tropical hardwoods used in Hydrotek and Aquatek plywoods.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

Question #3 What is an easy to work with and forgiving epoxy? I am several weeks away from this point but figured I should be prepaired. From a quick scan on the web it appears to be either MAS or WEST that makes popular products for plywood crafts. Any advice would be appreciated. Is ther such a thing as a water based or lower VOC product that is less harmful to workwith? I am prepaired to wear tyvek suits and 3M cartidge respirators for protection during sanding. I am skiping ahead a little but would like to hear your input as everyone has been very helpful and encouraging up to this point. Thanks a million.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Sensitization to epoxy is a real problem. Best to wear protective gloves when you're working with it. If you get it on your hands (you will), the best remover is ordinary vinegar, as it is non toxic and non flammable. Rub your hands together with the vinegar, and it clumps and rolls up and you can wipe it right off. Mix with oil and you can put it on your salad (but not with epoxy in it). Once sensitized, I hear you probably will not be able to work with the stuff again.

I have used WEST and Mas, but mostly System 3. All are good, but pricey. Gallon quantities are cheaper than smaller amounts. If you have a nearby boat manufacturer, you might be able to take in your own container and get it bulk and save money. Don't waste money on the little tubes and bottles at the local hardware store, though I have used 5 minute or 10 minute epoxies for small tasks where the speed is more important than the strength.

Don't mess around with hardener-resin ratios. You cannot speed it up or make it stronger by putting in more hardener. Follow the maker's instructions. If you need to slow down or speed up curing time (epoxy doesn't "dry," it chemically cures), use a hardener formulated for that purpose. Don't mix too large a quantity at once, unless you plan to apply all of it instantly (as in glassing the whole hull). If a large mass is left in a cup, it will get very hot, and could even catch on fire.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

The first step….


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

We expect that sheet of plywood to start looking like a boat real soon. I'm glad to see you decided to go with marine quality ply.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

It felt great to actually get this completed today.


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## richardwootton (Jan 17, 2013)

Looking good man! I'm excited to see this come together. Were you able to find the marine ply locally?


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Very cool!


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

Question for today: I do not have my epoxy yet and since I am still in the offsets and woodworking phase I will have it in a few weeks. I am dying to glue together the sides and bottom of the kayak( puzzle piece joints only). Could I use Titebond III the waterproof version and would it create any bonding issues with the epoxy. I sure the epoxy is a better bond. But from my woodworking experience Titebond offers a superior hold. The puzzle joint fits very tight. I would make sure squeeze out is removed.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

I have no personal experience with the glues' compatibility, but a friend of mine built a red cedar stripper kayak with titebond and then glassed it using epoxy. There were no problems that I am aware of. As for your very tight joints, it is possible to have a starved joint with epoxy by over clamping. But in your puzzle joint, I would expect the epoxy to penetrate the joint through capillary action and therefore should be ok. I would suggest you do a test joint before committing to the actual plank. I'm concerned about getting Titebond into those tight fitting joints. Would you dab on the glue, then force the joint together? I think with epoxy, you'd have a better chance of joint penetration. Maybe paint the epoxy on the mating pieces, join them, then brush on more epoxy on the surface. Epoxy's ability to penetrate is your friend here. I should also mention that epoxy can be mixed in any kind of plastic container, including styrene, and brushed with any kind of brush, including foam. It does not destroy some plastics, as polystyrene does. I like the little cheap chip bristle brushes for most work.

Epoxy can also be frustrating stuff to work with. I compare it to honey on your piece of toast with a hole in it. It runs all over the place and makes a mess. For gluing wood joints, it should be thickened a bit with wood flour, such as you might get from a sander. Makes a stronger joint.

What thickness plywood did you end up buying?


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

Living in Indiana lumber and distributors are very abundant. This was stock for them and costed 55.00 bucks a sheet. About the same price as 3/4IN birch from the big box stores.

IN regards to applying Titebond to the joint , I would apply it very liberally with a brush. Once the pieces are put together I would simply wipe off all the excess with a damp cloth. Then I would return about 30 minutes later and wipe off excess again. I am considering staining this in the future so I would be very careful to get rid of the squeeze out.

Thanks for all the feedback. Once everything is glued I plan on starting to cut the shapes out. This I would imagine will be my favorite part as my background is in woodworking and furniture building.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

Very productive day…


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Looking good! The deck will be an essential part of reenforcing the top edge of the side planks. It's amazing how strong those glued joints are, even before filleting and taping the inside of the chine. I had a joint where 2 planks didn't quite fit flush toward the bow of the boat. I had to saw the joint apart with a fine, thin saw to correct it, as I couldn't separate them by force.

What kind of epoxy did you end up getting?


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## richardwootton (Jan 17, 2013)

Awesome Gary! Watching this thread is making me really want to get started building one of these!


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

Im going with with the MAS Epoxy. It has been a very exciting project!

I am wondering if it will take one or two gallons of epoxy? The stuff is not cheap and I dont really want any extra.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Looking good!


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

The upper deck is no fun. Random converging angles are not fun. Furniture builders like straight lines! Inching along this week. Learning to master the hand plane. I am currently up to about 8 hour of woodworking. Just dry fitting everything so I need to go back and polish up some rough edges.


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## richardwootton (Jan 17, 2013)

Sure is looking like a boat!


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

I assume you'll glass tape the chines in the inside, and do whatever additional glassing on the interior is called for before you put on the deck. Doing it afterwards would be a miserable job.

Complex angles and curves are innate to all boat building, which is part of the fun and the challenge.


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## richardwootton (Jan 17, 2013)

Mr Scissors, if I read his post correctly I think he just dry fitting everything at the moment ensuring that everything meets up correctly. I could be wrong though, and often I am.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

This was just a test fitting. I pulled it all apart yesterday and spent some more time working the hand plane. Smoothing out some rough edges and refining the shape. It fits together very nicely. The plans worked great and I am glad I methodically measure because an 1/8 of an inch really makes a difference.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

Working on sanding , sanding , and more sanding today. I am going to keep the hull natural and staining the deck mahogany. The plywood soaks up the stain like nothing I have ever seen. Very high quality stuff!


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

I am very excited to be wrapping up the woodworking phase of the project this week. I am going to order the epoxy this week. Give me a week and it should be taking shape!!


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Thanks for these progress photos!


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

I have hit the four week mark and I am switching gears slightly this weekend and working on some housekeeping in my shop and doing some vacuuming and getting ready for the epoxy portion of the project. Today I finished my seat , foot rest , started a couple different paddles. I hope to start working with the expoxy tomorrow.









Side Note: One amazing thing about a flat bottom is it maked building furniture and other creature comforts pretty easy.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

I'm curious what woods you are using in your paddle.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

I just used some leftovers that I had around my shop and then I will encapsulate it in epoxy and then lacquer. I think its either poplar or maple and some pieces of cherry for the paddle. Eventually I will make one out of hickory and teak but this is just to get me started. I laminated the handle out of two pieces of 3/4 hardwood and I shaped it smooth.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

After about 30 days I am excited beyond words to finally flip the hull and start working on a different area. The bottom. I have only been casually working on this for the last several weeks and spending about 4-6 hours per week fabricating. I just snipped the wires and working on sanding the sides flush with the bottom. Very impressed with the fit. I created my own template and cut the pieces using nothing more that a jigsaw and was only off by about 1/4 of an inch. A little epoxy and wood flour and no one will ever notice. The next step is assemble the three panel top deck then onto joining the two hals together. I am a little nervous about this step! In furniture building the last piece of trim shows how good your craftman ship was throughout the entire process. If you happen to read this post please leave a comment I would like to know if I should continue with this forum!!


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Absolutely continue! I am watching and awaiting your progress!


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Yes, keep us up to date. I am anticipating your first ventures out on to the water with this.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

Trust me , the day this things hits the water I will post about 100 pictures. I should be pretty close in 2-3 weeks.


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## richardwootton (Jan 17, 2013)

Heck Yeah Gary! Way to go man.


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

Hi - I have been following along on your project & you're making great progress!

One observation: in Comment #61 you show a seat. If it is the one you intend to use in you kayak, you might want to lower it. You will want you center of gravity as low as possible to preserve the stability.

I helped a scout troop build canvas over wood kayaks a few years back (34 of them to be exact). One scout brought this nice thick cushion to use as a seat. Every time he tried to launch, he would just tip over. Took the thick cushion out and everything was fine.


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## richardwootton (Jan 17, 2013)

Steve, interesting that you point that out. I viewed that seat more as something that might be potentially uncomfortable, or cumbersome, but hadn't thought about the center of gravity issue. I regularly paddle a kayak roughly the same size but much wider and not a true flat bottom and when it's loaded up for camping especially with a fairly large cooler fixed to the top of the stern, even that ridiculously stable boat gets a bit tippy. And this is a boat I can literally stand up and pee off the side in flat water. Too much information?


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

I saw that as post #58. Yes, that seat is much too high. Also, the seat back shouldn't be very high. That's because as the boat rolls around under you, you need to stay flexible at the hips and waist, which allows you to keep your torso vertical regardless of the boat's movement under you. A high seat back can hinder that. It's a tradeoff between comfort and boat control (and staying upright).


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## JohnnyStrawberry (Jan 20, 2012)

Definitely continue!
I'm following it as well.
I totally share your excitement.
Building the first kayak is a super-exciting experience.
Here is mine 
You can keep CoG the lowest possible with a sling seat. Really comfy as well. No woodworking though. :-D
I'll share the photo of mine when I find it. 
Not sure where you could attach that to in yours though.


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## JohnnyStrawberry (Jan 20, 2012)

Found. 















The kayak turned out extremely stable.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

WOW! Thanks for all the great feedback. Thanks for chiming in and letting me know someone is actually reading this. I was considering discontinuing the thread/forum. I would like to think when I am finished with this project that I might have inspired someone to build a kayak ( or something ). Especially thanks for the information about the COG and the functionality of the seat. It may be hard to tell from the photo but the seat only has a rise of about 3-1/2 inches. If this makes it too unstable I will simply remove it. Easy fix since I do not plan on permanently fastening to the hull. I will just be temporarily rigging it to the boat. These are all great tidbits of information and I will be taking these all into consideration. I am a woodworker/furniture builder so I do not prefer to work with foam or webbing. Since I have done custom work for many years I enjoy modifying off the shelf plans to better suit my needs. Everything with this project is trial and error. And the seat will be no different. Although the plans of this boat are a kayak it will function more like a canoe or a jon boat. I plan on doing lots of bird watching and that's it. Twenty minutes of paddling like a mad man then three hours of floating and birding. That is why I am sacrificing some of the stability for a little comfort. SO in short I am a woodworker not a red blooded white watering maniac kayak-er! haha


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

johnny strawberry , a collapsable folding kayak , that is amazing and just blew my mind!


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## JohnnyStrawberry (Jan 20, 2012)

Floating around is the best in the most stable kayak. Stability=comfort.
Especially if a can of cold one can roll under the seat… :-D
Anyways, you'll see. I'm looking forward to seeing the photos of the first trip.


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

As long as you are aware of the potential issue, you'll figure out what works for you. From my experience 3 1/2 inches is about 3 inches too much. But you can play with it and come up with your own conclusion. Kayak comfort is as much a journey as a destination!


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Been thinking about your paddle, trying to decide whether to let you find out the hard way, or suggest another approach.

My concern is about weight. The woods you used and the ones you propose using (hickory and teak) are way heavy for a paddle. I realize you envision short bursts followed by lots of drifting, but sooner or later you will have to paddle long and hard-and a heavy paddle is a killer in that situation. Remember you don't have an oarlock fulcrum to help support the weight, as you do with a heavy ash rowing oar.

Woods I have used are Sitka spruce (aka airplane spruce) for the shaft, because it is tough and light, and Western red cedar for the blades, because it is light and adequately strong. Yellow cedar would also make a good shaft, being as tough as spruce and just a little heavier.

I use the same rough construction layout you have in your photo, that is the shaft glued up of 2 halves into a rectangle (because I want a slightly oval shape to the shaft), which is then rounded and smoothed. I go so far as to hollow the shaft, using a 7/8" diameter half round bit (never have found one, had to grind my own). When finished, it leaves about a 3/16" wall, which is sufficient for strength. This hollow extends only to the root of the blades, no farther.

I lay up lateral laminations to build up the blades just as you did. I jig saw them into an oval (there are many shapes to choose from-take your choice), and because my blades are fairly narrow, I don't make them asymmetrical. I also don't bother with feathering the blades, which I can get away with because of the narrowness. Most people around here (maybe 2/3?) use feathered paddles, but it's a personal choice for each of us. I don't try to convert them, and they don't try to convert me. (ACA, by the way, always teaches that you should (must) use a feathered paddle, so to hell with them).

The power face of the blade has a slight ridge running lengthwise, with shallow hollowing on both sides. The back has a gentle convexity. The edges end up about 1/4" thick along most of the length. Blades taper from nearly the thickness of the shaft to 1/4" at the tip. The beauty of this shape is that in a sculling stroke, such as in a sculling brace or a sculling draw, the laminar flow across the back of the blade is nearly perfect. A thing of beauty to watch, while give powerful lift-like an airplane wing.

Oh, forgot to mention: This is a bit hard to make clear, but the back of the blades is more or less at the same plane as the "back" of the shaft (the part facing away from you when you hold it up), except for tapering at the end. Most of the blade tapering comes out of the power face of the blade (toward you). This helps to control flutter, which can be annoying if it's extreme.

Originally, I fiberglassed the tips of the blades up about 2 inches, but since I didn't have time to do that with my last one before paddling off somewhere, I never got around to it. Conclusion: not necessary, and leaving the glass off saves even more weight. I coat them with epoxy, and then varnish. I'm going on about my 7th or 8th year with this paddle, and it's due for a refinishing.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks for the information , runwithscissors! That is some great information and will definetly be making another one that is lighter weight with the construction techniques you mention. Could you post a couple photos of your paddles and provide me a weight? I would lreally like to have a target weight to shoot for and have a visual of the geometry of your tried and trued paddle! While you are at it how about a couple of your kayak! Thanks


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## richardwootton (Jan 17, 2013)

Runswithscissors, thanks for posting that man! Some very helpful info. I'd also appreciate some photos.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

I'll try to get photos on here within a few days.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

When you're ready to make your next paddle, ask me about length. I have opinions about that (as my friends kinow, I have opinions about everything, even when I don't know what I'm talking about).


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

You have no idea how nerve racking this can be. The temperatures spiked this week in Indiana and the pot life of the epoxy is very short. If you make a irreversible mistake now its six weeks down the drain. Glassing the hull today and getting ready to assemble the top panel and fill the gaps tomorrow. I broke out my Canon camera today for a better detailed shot. For being a rookie and never building something not using a table saw or mirer saw this is coming out very well. This is the second coat of epoxy and I just trimmed the fiberglass flush.










Instead of naming the boat I decided to decorate it with the following. I will probably place them where the hull identification numbers would go :


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## richardwootton (Jan 17, 2013)

Gary, that's looking great! You're really inspiring me to give this a shot. The glassing part is what makes me the most apprehensive.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Geckos! Great idea!


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## mtenterprises (Jan 10, 2011)

All boats should have eyes.
MIKE


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

runwiithscissors….where are those pictures??


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## JohnnyStrawberry (Jan 20, 2012)

Looking great! I'm looking forward to on-water photos as well.
Thanks for keeping us posted.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Guys: be patient! The paddle is sorely in need of scraping, sanding, and varnishing. Will get photos as soon as I've finished that chore.


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## Schwieb (Dec 3, 2008)

I've built a Guillemot kayak http://lumberjocks.com/projects/91294. They are a lot of labor intensive love amd with nice wood are very beautiful.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

Dr ken, thanks for sharing your finished kayak picture. Kudos for spending 500 hours on a project. It deserves to be in a museum.

Side note: My 40 hours for the stitch and glue method is not sounding that bad!


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

Its been a big week for me. Squeezing in a few hours hear and there and it is coming along very nicely. I have tried to work on this every single day since I started to keep the progress going. Somedays I may only have 15 minutes or 20 minutes clean and organize the shop. The excitement this week is fitting the deck to the hull. Very amazing with how good everything fits. No regrets and certainly no issues. I am hoping to tape the inside seams this evening and prepaire to epoy the top deck this weekend.

I used shrink wrap to form the deck and then strapping tape ontop of that so it would not stretch out of shape overnight. Worked surpisingly well. I did not want to risk leaving any glue residue or delaminating the ply.


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

You had a comment on your latest project post referring to strip building. I have done one of each - stitch and glue and strip.

Yes, a strip kayak can take more time, but it doesn't have to be extreme. For me, teh strip building allowed for more detail and biuld options that made teh process very time consuming. I have no idea how many hours, but it took 5 years and I'm pretty sure I was way over 1000 and maybe over 2000. That was nearly all due to details and build technique.

On the other hand I watched a blog where a builder built one in less than a month. To be fair he was a cabinet maker with expereince and a free month of time. I'd say around 100 hours for him. The biggest diffence was straightforward construction and no details - just strips.


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

Oh, and by the way - nice progress!


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

I looked up the builder and he still has his build web page up. I was only partly right - yes, less than a month, but no it still had some details!

I think this is a pretty extreme example of a fast build, but it does show what can be done.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

If I spent 1000 plus hours on a project I would place it in a glass display case!!


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

Not for me - it's got scracthes all over. Still pretty. It hangs from my garage ceiling (10 ft up) and a few years ago, I screwed up the hanging. When I went to lower it, one end fell and ripped the mirror off my truck before it crashed onto the concrete floor. Other than a minor compression zone where it hit the mirror, no damage!

When it gets enough dings, I'll refinish it.


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

Here is a picture of it on it's first paddle


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## richardwootton (Jan 17, 2013)

Steve that's a thing of absolute beauty!


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

Wow! Thanks for sharing. If anyone else has made a canoe , kayak , or boat please feel free to post a photo! It inspires all of us rookies!!


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

Thanks guys. I keep wanting to post a blog on the build (I have the pictures). But that old time priority keeps getting in the way.

One last thought on scratches. I displayed this at the county fair and a friend of mine commented he would be too nervous about people touching it. My response was:

This project has been 5 years as an art project. After the fair, its a boat - and boats get scratched.

Of course everyone gets to use their creations as they wish!


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Finally got my paddle refinished, and of course it looks like the devil. Couldn't remove all the graying and dings because I didn't want to go too thin on the shaft walls. Oh well; it's propulsion for moving a boat, not intended for an art gallery (any excuse to justify a crappy job, eh?)

Key details: Overall length 88 1/2" (225.5 cm); blades are 22 1/2" long by slightly over 5" wide; shaft is 43" long. The slightly oval shaft is 1.32 inches the long way (at right angles to the blade) by about 1.28". The oval is partly to give a more comfortable grip, partly to let you know whether you are gripping it right without having to look. Paddle weight is slightly under 32 ounces.

Around here, the trend has been for paddles to become shorter, 215 centimeters being quite common. Years ago, they were usually quite a bit longer, 240s being typical. To show what a difference length makes, a couple examples: (1) Some years ago, I was trying out a new kayak (probably my current one) with a very long Sawyer paddle, probably a 240 or even longer (Sawyer makes a variety of wooden paddles). I went out during a windy, choppy day and paddled a mile and half downwind. I just sailed along at a good clip. The paddling was easy. Then I turned around to go upwind, and I thought it was going to kill me. Exhausting, hard work. (2) A friend and I were practicing for Ski to Sea (Bellingham/Whatcom county annual relay race from Mt. Baker to Beliingham Bay) and crossed from Sandy Point to Pt. Migley on Lummi Island and back, a total distance of about 4 1/2 nautical miles, equivalent to the race distance. Even though he was a young, strong guy (while I am old and weak), I easily beat him. He was using an enormous paddle, probably over 8' long (245 to 250 cm). Later we sawed a section out of his paddle shaft (a fiberglass job) and shortened it about 8", which made a significant improvement in his paddling speed. Though my paddle is longer than average, I can get away with it because of the narrow, tapering blades.

The first photo shows some useful tools. The carbide grinder and convex shaped sanding disk are helpful for making the slight hollows in the blade face (with a slight ridge running down the center line). The ridge is there to mitigate the tendency of the blades to flutter, which can be quite pronounced on some paddles. Also note the tip of the blade is offset away from the paddler (in the last photo, the power face is down, and the shaft is lying on a straight surface). It seems to be effective. The carbide grinder is very aggressive, but not as bad as the chain saw circlet I used one time when I was really in a hurry. The hollow cutting router bit (from a grind-your-own blank) makes a hollow 7/8" in diameter when the 2 halves are joined.

The shaft, which runs the total length, is Sitka spruce. The hollow terminates just before blades start, and because it ends in a taper, avoids a stress riser. The first lamination to build up the blades is western red cedar. It's easier to carve the blade if you bandsaw the curves before glue-up. The outer lamination is yellow cedar, for no other reason than visual contrast. Although I used to fiberglass the tips, I didn't do that on this current paddle due to time constraints, and it held up fine, even though I don't baby the paddle. I use it to fend off the rocks and the bottom, just as you might with any paddle. In renovating the paddle, I was surprised at how little damage it had sustained in several years of paddling. In refinishing the blade, I soaked as much epoxy into the end grain as possible, to harden the wood.


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

That's a nice looking paddle!

That picture of my kayak is in a bay just south of Bellingham. I can't remember the name - there's a state park at the south end.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Most likely that's Chuckanut Bay, and you're on Chuckanut Island, aka Dot Island. That little beach covers up at high water. The park to the south of it is Larrabee.

Where do you do your paddling generally? Your boat is gorgeous, and I appreciate your attitude about trying to maintain a pristine appearance. The dilemma of a perfect piece of work like that is analogous to have a fine piano, which you have to leave out in the rain. Speaking of which, I alway store my kayak under cover. UV is very bad for epoxy, which I assume you used when you glassed it, which I assume you did. Hardly avoidable on a stripper, as so much of the strength depends on sheathing, inside and out.

I'll be getting a shot of my kayak up on here in a day or two.


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## richardwootton (Jan 17, 2013)

Very nice paddle. I have thought about trying my hand at doing a carbon fiber shaft with a wooden blade. Especially if I could buy the shaft already made in the right diameter then fuse the blades to the shaft with either fiberglass or carbon fiber.


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

Hi runs (is that and acceptable short version?)

Generally, the Coumbia River and some of the lakes around Vancouver.

I will never spend as many hours in the seat as I did making the kayak, but that is OK with me.

Yes, it is glassed inside and out. I used epoxy (West systems) and then a linear polyurethane (2 part). Very high UV resistance. I also store it in my garage well out of sunlight.

I look foerward to seeing your kayak!

Gary, I'm hoping you are okay with our highjackign your thread a bit


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## mtenterprises (Jan 10, 2011)

"Wow! Thanks for sharing. If anyone else has made a canoe , kayak , or boat please feel free to post a photo! It inspires all of us rookies!!"

You asked for it so here goes.









Me on the Lower Niagara River between Lewiston and Youngstown.



















Stick and skin kayaks that I built with my Boy Scouts back in 2000. Pics are of mine as it was in progress.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

Wow, thanks for sharing all the photos of the paddles and crafts. Amazing work.

If anyone else has some don't hesitate to post them. Its very inspiring to see everyone's creativity.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

I made some big steps this weekend. I taped the inside seam of the boat where the deck meets the hull. Although this may seam like an easy step I found it very challenging. There is just something carnival like about taking a long shakey stick and trying to finess something 8 feet away. I did it no problem the first time but wish I could have done it a little better towards the bow and stern. My goal today it to trim the deck flush with the sides and to patch any gaps and do some woodworking on the tips of the bow and stern. I will be pulling it out of the garage this week and try to get some "almost finished" photos of it. Its just hard to photograph something this large in a cramped area. Stay tuned for more..


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## mtenterprises (Jan 10, 2011)

This is like a commercial between segments of the real show, Gary's Kayak, How it's done!
Not to hog the topic but here is a picture of the kayak paddle I made. At the time, way back in the late 80s, there was no internet to get ideas from so I took a picture/drawing of a Greenland style paddle from an ad in the back of a kayak magizine. The drawing was less than 1" long but I was able to size it up to a full size drawing in length then took dimensions off that. I don't remember exactly what size it is, too lazy to run to the garage to measure it right now, but I do know it is no wider than 6". Now back then I had no idea as to how to make a paddle so this is what I did. First I got a good clear 2×4 of spruce/hemlock/fir, you know like construction lumber strong enough to hold up a house. Then I went to the fence company and got a 2x? of red cedar. Today I know how paddles are made but back then I did what I figured would work and be strong, I built a long like double sided dado joint into the shaft of the paddle and slipped the blades into it. There was a bit more to this than that but this is just to keep it simple here. I assembled it with marine epoxy I was using on my first kayak and then I finished it with the same epoxy, no fiberglass I was a bit poor at the time. The paddle turned out great, strong enough for proper use and very light. Later I'll post the dimensions and maybe a sketch of the joint I used.
MIKE









Now back to our regular program.Take it away Gary.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

Very nice , Mike!!


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

Question of the day : Getting ready to do my sanding on the epoxy and switch to Schooner Gloss Varnish. Do you have any sanding recommendations? I have several 5IN sanders but have been using the Black and Decker Mouse lately. It does a great job of either removing stock or smoothing out rough edges. It is a jitterbug style sander for those who might not know. Two things that are huge is it does not throw us as much dust ( air-born ) as the 5IN and it has much less user fatigue because its light. The second part to this question is what about sanding lacquer? I was planning on wet sanding at about 400 grit between coats. Any recommendations , experiences , or tips/tricks would be great! Thanks Gary


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## tyvekboy (Feb 24, 2010)

Since we're talking kayaks, I thought I'd share my posting of my Baidarka (Aleutian Sea Kayak - Sking on Frame). It's too bad all the woodwork is hidden.

If you're interested in an alternative method of building boats, see the PREVIOUS and NEXT projects posted.

My boats contain no fiberglass.

Good build on the kayak INDPLSWOODWORKING.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

It may be a little premature to think about varnish. Check your epoxy instructions. Some (most? all?) specify that you wait awhile-several weeks-to let the amine blush come out. Then you wash and rinse before finishing. I used my boat quite a bit before final finishing, including its maiden trip to the Queen Charlottes. Of course the epoxy was rough, and it looked crappy, but turned out fine when I got around to that chore.

As for sanding, I don't know of any ideal material, but something that won't clog is good. And wet sanding might be a very good way to do that, as the water carries away the sanding residue. Be really careful not to sand through the glass, especially at the outside corners, where it is most vulnerable. I do think a jitterbug sander is about right, not being too aggressive. I like the ROS, but it can be a bit aggressive if not handled carefully.

Like sras, I used 2 part linear polyurethane, Awlgrip, I believe. It's nasty stuff (toxic), and I had to sand between coats, because I brushed when I should have sprayed. I think an HVLP sprayer would be good, but I didn't have one at the time. But a lot of people use spar varnish, such as the Schooner that you mentioned. On an earlier boat, I used a water based urethane made by System Three, but it wasn't very satisfactory, and I wouldn't recommend it.

I guess it's too late now, but I hope you turned the boat upside down to tape the deck seams on the inside. Everybody hates that job, but it's unavoidable. Adds critical strength to the boat.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Tyvekboy: That's a fun story on the baidarka. We have 2 baidarka authorities up here in NW Washington (state, that is). One is George Dyson, who happens to be the son of the astrophysicist Freeman Dyson. A book was written about father and son called "The Starship and the canoe.". George lives in Bellingham, and is honcho of the Baidarka Historical Society. He has written a lot about Aleut ethnography, Russian colonialism, and of course, kayaks. He uses aluminum for his frames, and a very heavy special weave of nylon for the skins. They are gorgeous boats (even though they lack wood). He wrote a book about his journey (both literally and figuratively) called "Baidarka."

The other is Corey Freedman, in Anacortes, WA. Corey builds traditional baidarkas with wooden frames and nylon skins. He works with clients who build their boats in his shop, while he provides guidance and instruction. Corey also has made quite a study of the Aleut.

Should also mention another baidarka local, thougth I don't know whether he's around now, who spent some months in the Pribiloff Islands of Alaska teaching the native how to build their traditional skin boats. They had lost the technology. I forget his name.

As for David Zimmerly, whom you cite as one of your design inspirations, he wrote an article for "Sea Kayaker" magazine many years ago about paddles, and it was one of the paddles he described, a McKenzie River model, that was the inspiration for mine, which has evolved through about 4 or 5 different variations that I have built. I like the one I'm using now, but my next one may be a couple of inches shorter (or should I say, 5 cm).

As for Aleut paddles (which seem very similar to Inuit paddles), several people around here now use them, either as a primary paddle or as a spare. I have not built one, but did buy a nicely made one from a fellow paddler, which I haven't tried yet.

Looks like this is a thread that is threatened by considerable hijacking.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

Any boat , kayak , paddle , or related topic is more than welcome.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Finally got some shots of the Pygmy Coho. The linear polyurethane clear coat has held up well, for about 11 or 12 years, I think, but it's showing some dings and scratches. Keeping it stored out of the sunlight helps a lot. It is a very hard finish, but of course is not impossible to damage. The worst part is where the hatch cutouts in the deck expose the edge of the plywood/glass lamination. Even though carefully sealed, eventually moisture gets in there, and will eventually cause delamination. I have a few spots that show discoloration, which mean it's happening. One solution would be to grind out the glass and discolored wood, then reglass, etc. But that would be a PITA, and would not be a really long lasting solution. Instead, I'll paint a narrow ring of epoxy, tinted with graphite, to cover and protect the vulnerable area.

About the black bottom and cockpit areas: West Systems puts out graphite powder in a pint size can (probably other sizes too), which easily mixes with epoxy; it's amazing how little graphite it takes to cover. Of course you need 2 coats to get really thorough coverage. Aside from appearance, the advantage of the graphite is the ease with which dings in the bottom can be patched. I just sand it, fill the dings with thickened epoxy, and repaint with the graphite. Works well and is easy. I've had to do that once since I built the boat. The repairs barely show. I used it on the cockpit rim and knee braces as well.

You may be interested in the knee (or thigh) braces, which are very helpful in maintaining control of the boat (knees, feet, and hips in firm contact to enable the boat to move under you while your upper body stays upright). It is almost mandatory if you plan to roll the boat, but even if you don't wish to master that, the stability provided by high and low braces is greatly enhanced with the solid body contact. I made the knee braces by first heat bending, then laminating, 1/8" chunks of plywood. You can cut the squares a little bigger than you figure you'll need, sandwich and clamp the plywood between 1/2" x 1' sticks, put one end in a vise, and use a heat gun to soften the glue. There is no need for steam here! It takes me about 5 minutes from initial clamp up to cooling off to make bends like this (if you surmise that the bend goes with the grain of the face veneers, rather than across the grain, you are correct). Once 2 layers are laminated with epoxy, they become amazing rigid. They probably aren't going to fit perfectly under your deck, but the gap is easily filled with a fillet of epoxy thickened with sanding dust, almost to the consistency of cold peanut butter. One reason I used the blackened epoxy here was to cover up the obvious joint, and to cover also the glassed cockpit rim, which is almost impossible to glass without a bunch of ugly places. A 1/4" or 3/8" layer of ethafoam or similar is glued underneath for padding. The pronounced hook in these knee braces really helps to lock yourself in the boat. Mine are spaced so I can't lift both knees at once, but I can live with that.

I attached deck rigging with little loops made from 3/4" wide webbing, with the rounded ends heat sealed, then folded over and fastened with stainless flathead machine screws through finishing washers. Very cheap, quick, and easy.


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## mtenterprises (Jan 10, 2011)

Finally remembered to measure my Greenland paddle - 7' long and 4 1/4" wide.
MIKE


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

Back to your sanding question - I used variety of blocks and a piece of mouse pad and sanded by hand. For me, I found that I sanded too deep with power sanders. When that happens, you can't unsand it 

A less aggressive power sander might work out.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

Runs… , very nice boat! Nice lines and looks very sleek and fast. That cockpit is pretty amazing. Looks like a nice comfy pad.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Thanks. I've been noticing recently that it's a bit too tight. I must be getting too broad in the butt. I'll have to rebuild the seat back/side padding to make a bit more room. It is sometimes a bit of a struggle to hoist myself out upon landing.

You've got a lot of stuff to think about as you finish your boat. I guess that's largely the reason for most of my posts-to suggest aspects of paddle design and construction, cockpit fit, deck rigging, etc. that impact the paddling experience (sorry to sound like some kind of marketing lingo there). I wouldn't add everything to the kayak at once, but kind of gradually figure out what you need and what works for you. It's an evolving process.


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## richardwootton (Jan 17, 2013)

Mr. Scissors, I really appreciate all of your posts because I am planning on building a stitch and glue myself and your info has been really helpful.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

I may be baptizing this before too long. Working on lacquer and the finishing touches this weekend. I also built a third paddle that is much lighter than the previous versions. The first paddle was trash. The second one was perfect but just heavier than expected.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Very exciting! Be sure to wear your pfd, and take lots of pix, or have someone else photograph you while you're learning to make it go.

I'm kind of curious how you did your cockpit, whether you have a spray skirt-that sort of stuff.

My first paddle, though generally following the proportions and shape of my current one, was the same type of construction that you have done-plywood blades in a spruce dowel (I actually cut the shaft out of a 2×4, but the effect is the same).


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## mtenterprises (Jan 10, 2011)

Congratulations!!!!!!!! And I know for a fact it will float. I tested my first kayka in my brothers pool.
MIKE


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

Runs , I have more photos of the cockpit coming. Before I do anymore building Im going to launch it and check out the ergonomics and check out its stability. I currently do not have a cowl on the cockpit but have just enough wood and epoxy left over to install at a later time. Not sure if I will be utilizing a spray skirt at this time since all I will be doing is fishing and bird watching from the cockpit. The lakes in Indiana are very calm. I live about ten minutes from a reservoir that have very strict restrictions on no motor powered boat. Perfect for fishing and kayaks. In a few years I may try to build another kayak and make a more conventional cockpit geared up for performance , like yours. I would like to investigate strip building.


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## PaulDoug (Sep 26, 2013)

Nothing much more beautiful than a plywood or strip built kayak or canoe! However I hate working with epoxy. I hate the sanding, dust and work! I still wanted a kayak so I took this route: Kudzucraft.com. Bought his book and built one using the offset tables given in the book. Great kayak, only 30 lbs, finished. One of the fun-est project I have done.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

I spent the day rigging up the vestil and taking the traditional and customary PLOG-(Photographing laying On The Grass) photos. These will be the first photos of it out of the workshop. The baptizing will be happening tomorrow. Looking forward to getting back on the lake. Still lots to do but looking forward to moving onto my next project. Now the interesting part will be cramming a 14-foot kayak in a 8 foot Ford truck bed.


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

This just got real….


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)




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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)




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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Looking good, indpls!! We're all eager to hear how this behaves in the water.

A spray skirt has a couple of functions. (1) it keeps spray off, or more realistically, keeps paddle drips from falling onto your lap. Commercial paddles always come with drip rings, which sort of work. I used to cut them out of old inner tubes, shaped sort of like a truncated teepee like you might have made in elementary school. Lately, I don't bother with them, partly because my hands function as an important part of my cooling system. In fact, I often dip my hands in the water when I need to cool off. (2) keeps major amounts of water out of the cockpit, which, when flooded, makes the boat very unstable. There was a local incident (in the San Juan Islands)reported in "Sea Kayaker" magazine a few years back where a paddler in a boat loaded with camping gear didn't have a spray skirt. It was choppy, though not seriously rough, and waves kept dumping into his cockpit until it was so full he couldn't stay upright. He had to wet exitl, and lost contact with his boat. Various rescuers, including the Coasties, searched for him all night, but couldn't find him. Luckily for him, he was wearing a dry suit, so he didn't die of hypothermia (Puget Sound waters are bitterly cold year round). Currents carried him quite a few miles, until he was able to swim to a little island with a lighthouse, just in time to attract the attention of a helicopter flying overhead. So anyhow, I regard my sprayskirt as an important safety item.

I realize you will be using your kayak in much less gnarly conditions, but do remember to have flotation in both ends of your boat. Though a wooden kayak will float without, it won't support your weight. Stay safe, please.


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## richardwootton (Jan 17, 2013)

Fine job my friend! I can totally agree with rws about having a spray skirt. There have been several times that my boat has taken on too much water making it very tippy. In fact one of those times was this weekend with friends on a leisurely float. The water was really really high and we came upon someone who'd been stranded on a tree when he lost his float. He didn't know how to swim and didn't have a PFD. In an attempted rescue my boat took on so much water that I had to abandon to dump the water. He was fine, but little things like that make you really appreciate the skirt!


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## mtenterprises (Jan 10, 2011)

NICE Kayak! Looks great! GOOD JOB!


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## richardwootton (Jan 17, 2013)

I'm curious how the maiden voyage went!


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## indplswoodworking (Feb 14, 2012)

Just a quick update , I took the kayak out on Sunday and it did a great job on the lake. The conditions were less than favorable. It was very choppy and had strong winds and gusts. Also it was not a good sign as I was unloading that several kayaks were returning because of the windy conditions. I was warned not to go out but I did anyway. It floated and looked amazing. I am rather tall and my coordination is less than perfect so just getting in and out of the boat was challenging. Anyway , it will probably be several weeks until I am able to get back out on the water but I will be video taping the launch and I should have it fully rigged with a spray skirt and everything. I will share this with everyone. I even put a few scratches in it during the baptizing.

This is one of the photos on the way to the lake:


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## richardwootton (Jan 17, 2013)

Kayak selfie! Nice! How'd your seat work out? Did it feel tippy?


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## richardwootton (Jan 17, 2013)

Oh yeah, and as far as getting in and out of the boat is concerned, being a fairly tall guy myself. I've found that pushing the boat out into the water with jut a bit of the bow touching the shore then putting one leg in, I typically use my left, then place both hands at the back of the cockpit and gently lower yourself in while at the same time taking your right foot that was grounded in shallow water and bringing it into the cockpit. Then you're free to grab your paddle and situate yourself within the boat. The explanation sounds much more complicated than it actually is, I promise!


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