# Dusty Deputy Passing Most Debris to the Shop Vac



## KE4NYV (May 25, 2014)

I have the small Dust Deputy and for a while it was working great. I have it set up with my Kobalt shop vac and a metal trash can with a fitted MDF top. For a while, this worked fine. Recently, I noticed that about half of what I suck up is getting passed to the shop vac. I have no idea what has changed. I noticed that most of the debris seems to just spin around and around, without moving down. I'm pretty sure as it spins and stays towards the top, it's gradually getting sucked up through the top.

I was considering buying the larger Dust Deputy for my Grizzly dust collector, but now I'm not sure I want to spend the money.

Has anyone else seen this?


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## ChrisK (Dec 18, 2009)

Sounds like the velocity of the air in the cone has increased. Is there any leaks allowing more air to get in?


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

I had a similar situation and couldn't figure it out but I was thinking

there's a gap some where around the top of the DD lid so I made

a plywood top to keep it from flexing. The bolts were long enough

and 1/2 plywood was used. Worked better after that.


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## KE4NYV (May 25, 2014)

My original setup with the DD was with a Lowe's bucket and the snap-on lid. It seemed to work ok, but I filled it up fast. In that case, I didn't even bother to seal the DD with the lid. I just used bolts all the way around with washers. When I went to the metal trash can, I couldn't use the stock lid because it's domed and has a handle in the middle. Instead I cut a disk from MDF and rabbeted the edge all the way around to fit in the top of the can tight. It's tight enough that I have to pry it off. Also, when I put the DD on, I cut a felt pad to go between the mounting flange and the MDF top to ensure it was air tight. Not sure where my leak could be.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Are the seams on the trash can sealed?


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## KE4NYV (May 25, 2014)

> Are the seams on the trash can sealed?


The best can tell. It was brand new and the seams are all fold over/hook style and then pressed together.


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## PLK (Feb 11, 2014)

How do you see the dust spin around a metal trash can and a mdf lid?

I've had a super dust deputy on my HF DC for over a year and haven't had to empty the HF DC's bag once.

Paul


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

Yeah I'm thinking air is coming in thru the trash can somewhere causing air to go up.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Those seams need to be taped (foil tape, not duct tape)....they are seldom air tight from the factory. That includes the one around the bottom. You can test this without taping it. Put a plastic trash bag liner in it, being sure to put some weight in the bottom to keep it from being sucked into the ducting. Try it out and see what happens. That trash bag need to extend over the lip of the can, and be sealed by the top.


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## KE4NYV (May 25, 2014)

> How do you see the dust spin around a metal trash can and a mdf lid?
> 
> I ve had a super dust deputy on my HF DC for over a year and haven t had to empty the HF DC s bag once.


I see it spinning around in the top of the DD, not the trash can.


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## KE4NYV (May 25, 2014)

> Yeah I m thinking air is coming in thru the trash can somewhere causing air to go up.


What has me confused is why it worked when I first put it together. Now, in a matter of a couple of days it's doing this.


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## KE4NYV (May 25, 2014)

> Those seams need to be taped (foil tape, not duct tape)....they are seldom air tight from the factory. That includes the one around the bottom. You can test this without taping it. Put a plastic trash bag liner in it, being sure to put some weight in the bottom to keep it from being sucked into the ducting. Try it out and see what happens. That trash bag need to extend over the lip of the can, and be sealed by the top.


OK, I'll go back and tape the seams. Maybe they are opening up slightly, where I can't see and causing air to leak in. I can tell you that when I have it on, I can put my hand over the hose and the trash can flexes, trying to collapse on it'self. I know that is a drastic difference from open nozzle to complete blockage, but you would think that it wouldn't be that noticeable with a small leak.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

It only takes the tiniest of leaks to allow debris past the separator. It's possible the can was relatively tight at first, and opened up a little with the stress the DC imposed.


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## KE4NYV (May 25, 2014)

> It only takes the tiniest of leaks to allow debris past the separator. It s possible the can was relatively tight at first, and opened up a little with the stress the DC imposed.


Good point! I'm running to Lowe's after work to pick up some foil tape. I think I can get foil tape in the HVAC section for duct work…but not duct tape )


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## buildingmonkey (Mar 1, 2014)

I understand leaks. My cyclone was filling the filter with dust, and I found a gap between the blower and the cyclone. It had a gasket, but the top of the cyclone was light weight metal, and it just bowed apart and blew out. I took it apart, cleaned it up and put a big bead of silicone between the joint, and let it dry before using it again. Amazing difference. Now my drum is packed full, and hardly anything goes into the filter.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

I've had similar problems where it worked great one day and then the next day my shop vac was full of debris.


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## KE4NYV (May 25, 2014)

> I ve had similar problems where it worked great one day and then the next day my shop vac was full of debris.


This is exactly what happened to me. It even worked perfectly after I switched over to the big metal trash can, with nothing more than the MDF lid that I made for the cyclone to bolt to.

So over the weekend I bought some foil tape and sealed every seam on the trash can. I made sure every hole, including the little holes where the handle brackets come through were sealed. Cleaned out both the can and shop vac. I fully cleaned the filter and then put it all back together in normal configuration. I sucked up all of the shavings and dust that was in both sections. I opened it up to find about 10% in the can and easily 90% (vast majority) in the shop vac. I just don't get it!

My hoses are all almost new, no cracks or splits. Everything else seems to be in good shape. When I installed the cyclone on the MDF top, I took felt, cut out a ring for a gasket and even took the time to punch holes for the bolts. It's bolted down tight, no air is getting in or out through the flange.

I noticed that when I have it running and sucking up moderate amounts of dust, they go into the cyclone and instead of working their way down and out, they just spin around in the cyclone. A very little seems to make it's way out, but apparently most of it is being sucked right up through the top port, into the shop vac.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

Is there any difference in the dust you are making. I've noticed that more of the shaving from the planer make it to the shop vac than other types of dust. I think it also depended on how thick of a pass I was making with the planer. I think the very thin shavings from the planer have a lot of surface area compared to their weight and tend to go right to the vac.


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## KE4NYV (May 25, 2014)

I forgot to mention that was a test I did. In the past, with the planer and jointer, I could run either one into the cyclone and had a very minimal amount of shavings passed to the vac. The rest is somewhat fine dust from sanding and table saw. I ran both the jointer and planer and it all ended up in the vac. After that, I did all of the foil sealing. When I took that same debris and ran it though for the test, almost 90-59% ended up in the vac, again.

I'm ready to mount the cyclone back on the old bucket lid and try that, to see if I can get back to the performance I had before. The puzzling thing is after I built the MDF lid for the new can, it worked great for several weeks, without a problem. This was overnight that it started acting like this.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

The leak was the only malfunction I could come up with, sorry that didn't help.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

Did you change anything else such as elbows, hoses or hose size anywhere, lengthen or shorten hose?


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## KE4NYV (May 25, 2014)

> The leak was the only malfunction I could come up with, sorry that didn t help.


I appreciate the input!



> Did you change anything else such as elbows, hoses or hose size anywhere, lengthen or shorten hose?


I actually had a complex PVC pipe set up at first, but then I got a second hose and replace the PVC with that second hose. Everything worked fine for a couple of week. I'm still using the same setup.


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## kwolfe (Feb 12, 2014)

I had the same problem on mine originally. I was using a Big shop vac and had a leak in the top of my 7 gallon bucket (pool cholrine bucket). I fixed the air leak with an mdf tapered edge top and hooked it up to a smaller shop vac. Works great now.

I remember reading somewhere that high power shop vacs and large containers were an issue with the smaller DD. Maybe the trash can is just too big and messing up the air flow.


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## KE4NYV (May 25, 2014)

> I had the same problem on mine originally. I was using a Big shop vac and had a leak in the top of my 7 gallon bucket (pool cholrine bucket). I fixed the air leak with an mdf tapered edge top and hooked it up to a smaller shop vac. Works great now.
> 
> I remember reading somewhere that high power shop vacs and large containers were an issue with the smaller DD. Maybe the trash can is just too big and messing up the air flow.


This could be it! I originally had it on a smaller 5 gallon bucket. However, when I first went to the trashcan, with MDF lid, it worked fine. I don't know what could have changed. I have been using the biggest shop vac that I own with this system.

I'm in the process of building a hut on the side of my garage to house my dust collection and compressor. I have been thinking about going to the larger Dusty Deputy and using the Grizzly (hang on the wall) dust collector I bought off of a friend. Basically just use the DC fan as the suction source, in place of the shop vac. If I do this, it has a 4" inlet, so I would have to go to a bigger cyclone. I'm just not willing to drop several hundred on a large Clear-Vue. The large DD is expensive enough at about $170.


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## KE4NYV (May 25, 2014)

Straight out of the DD manual…Hmm


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

It seems odd they would suggest a small container, once the vacuum is applied to the system, regardless of the total volume, it shouldn't matter what size the container is below the cyclone. The only possibility is the air being spun in the cyclone is losing some of its inertia by having to spin a larger volume of air in the larger container. This seems less likely as you've had initial success with using the larger trash can?


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## splatman (Jul 27, 2014)

Try taping the lid to the trash can.


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## KE4NYV (May 25, 2014)

I have yet to mess with this anymore this week, since all of my shop time has been turning pens and bowls for people. I intend to try this out again this weekend. I'm going to try taping the lid (even though the LCD has a tight popping fit) and then also try going back to my small bucket to see if I can get it acting right again.


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## KE4NYV (May 25, 2014)

Well, I'll be damned! Those directions actually mean something. I swapped my DD back to the old five gallon lid I originally had it on, cleaned out the shop vac and its filter, hooked it up and cleaned up a huge pile of shavings from a recent lathe project. Opened the shop vac find a smidgen of dust residue, but nothing more. I noticed that when the debris entered the cyclone, it would immediately spiral down to the bottom and out. This is what it should be doing. Why did my trash can work early on, but not later? You got me! All I know is, if I want a bigger can, I need to go up to the bigger cyclone and use my bigger dust collection fan…which I was planning to do eventually.


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## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

My DD and the 5 gallon pail that came with it works well enough to leave it alone,at times I thought of getting a "slightly bigger" bucket but what do I really gain by doing that? one (or maybe two) less trip to the big garbage can to dump it ,it's not worth it.


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