# Up for bid - if you know or want to guess is ok to.



## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

I'm sure we have all danced around this subject before but how about coming right out and Quoting numbers. Here are some of the answers I got when trying to get someone to quote a Kitchen. By the way none of these quotes were for installed kitchens.

Cabinet shop #1
Q. How much will my kitchen cost for Kraft-Maid? 
A. Well 28 linier feet at 121.00 per Linier foot $4,743.00 to $9,500. 
Q. Is that with counter top or without?
A. Oh with a counter $7,743 to $16,000.
Q. What type of handles do I get?
A. None handles are extra as are the 3 options of draw glides…

Cabinet shop #2
Q. How much will my kitchen cost for oh say Kraft-Maid? 
A. Can't give you a price until we come out and measure. The fee is $75.00
Q. I have a drawing with me can you give me a ball park number?
A. We don't do kitchens below $24,000 if that helps
Ok by!

Cabinet shop #3
Q. How much will my kitchen cost for oh say Kraft-Maid? 
A. Well 28 linier feet at 171.00 per Linier foot $4,788.00 to $19,995.00. 
Q. Is that with counter top or without?
A. The counter is free if you use Formica $7,743 to $16,000. If you want natural or some other surface its $50 to $110 per Sq Ft

So here's my question.

How much do you think you can build a kitchen with Blum hardware, pre-finished maple plywood boxes one side, painted face frame, doors & draw fronts. Leave out the counter material. I am really curious as to how much I would save building it all myself.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Hey There Sandhill
I get calls almost every day wanting to know if I can build cabinets for less than Lowe's,Home depot and I say
yes and they want an estimate but then I say I could but I don't. I then say I teach a class were you can learn to build your own. then they say will that save me money instead of buying lowes hd I say no material will cost more than that. then they say why would I want to do that. then I say oh so you see my point then, good by.


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

LOML and I completed a kitchen remodel using quartersawn white oak (Shipped to AZ from MN) Blum undermount self closing drawer glides, Blum 35mm hinges, knobs and pulls that resemble oak leaves from Van ************************* Restorers. We used granite 12X12 tiles for the top and backsplash. For 26 lf. including a new refrigerator, dishwasher and deep porcelain sink we spent less than 7K. 
Probably could have bought from Lowes or HD cheaper and faster but certainly not the quality of materials or workmanship. 
So, you bet, you can save a bundle…..for the good stuff.


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## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

I guess I dont get your point Jim "Yes you can build for less but not save money". Im not talking about you doing the job for them or anyone else. I am saying you do it for yourself how much can you build a box for? In my part of the world I can turn out one for about $30.


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## Russel (Aug 13, 2007)

Sandhill, I built the cabinets in my kitchen (about the size you're talking) about 5 years ago with oak plywood and sold oak facing and doors. It was my first real project and I spent about $1,500 in lumber (from Home Depot) and about $400 in tools. If you've got the time, you can do it yourself for less out of pocket.


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## getneds (Mar 18, 2009)

Yeah, not to mention the pride boost it'll give you. If you got the time to do it,then go ahead, it'll be the conversation whenever company is over. It boils down to time. One guy building and fnishing takes some time. I mean the price might work out even,but the quality will far exceed Home Cheapo. And you can show us your progress here on LJ's

Do you guys have a Kitchen cabinet outlet around? I just installed her kitchen from them. I think the cab total for about 15 cabs, wall and base, counter included (formica) all less than $5,000.Nopt to bad with raised panel doors. Thats pretty hard to compete with


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Talking about cabinets is like talking about cars. When discussing price, you can't compare a Ford Focus to a Corvette ZR-1. And you can't compare a Kraft-Maid kitchen to shop-built cabinets made of birch ply.

The short answer to your question is that I'm sure you could save money by building yourself. But how much value do you put on your time? If you do it because you love the woodworking, I'd say go for it. But if you're only doing it to save the money, it is probably not worth the trouble and headaches.


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## Steelmum (Jul 21, 2007)

I used to work for KraftMaid. When I updated the kitchen in my old house I put in Kraftmaid cabinets. When I update the kitchen in this house I will be building them myself. The difference is my confidence level and I want to. No, it will not save me money, they will be built how I want them to be built.


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## rhett (May 11, 2008)

Factory to custom is no match in terms of quality and construction. That is ofcourse if one can build nice cabinets consistently, install them correctly and lay down a nice finish. While basic box construction is not complicated by any means, building an entire kitchen takes repeatability and alot of shop space. Look at your shop and see if you can be productive with an entire kitchen sitting on the floor. You can build in sections, but it makes finishing a pain and drags things on forever. Also keep in mind the number of doors/drawers needing to be built, sanded and finished. The unfortunate reality is that unless you have alot of time, a good shop set-up and desire to do it, it won't be worth the headache. Also if you are not an able finisher, all your hard work will look haphazard. Hopefully I am not raining on your parade, but I am a one man shop and have built many kitchens in the past. I try to avoid them just because they are ALOT of work for one man.

To answer your question, I see no more than $5000 in materials to do your kitchen. This would include prefinish 2S ply, Blum clip top hinges, Blum motion for drawers, precut dovetail drawer boxes and soft maple hardwood (that is my wood of choice for PG).

You can find factory cabinets built to these exact specs if you shop around.


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## DanLyke (Feb 8, 2007)

If your labor is free, estimating isn't rocket science: You can count the number of slides and hinges you'll need, that's easy to put a price on. You know what construction technique you'll be using for cabinets, so you can figure out in advance how much wood you'll need. I'm building mine from ApplePly, so coming home from the lumber yard with too much can be expensive…

It's good planning to do drawings and put all this stuff in a spreadsheet, especially because this will give you leverage when She Who Must Be Obeyed says "I thought we were going to do the cabinet this way…". But once you do that you'll know to the penny the check you'll be writing to the lumber yard.

And it's worth finding the place the high end cabinet guys shop at rather than buying at Home Despot, you'll easily save the difference in waste 'cause your plywood and veneers will delaminate a lot less.


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## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

Here in Florida its hard to find a supplier. I did find one but they will not sell to me without a lic. Others try to take advantage and get more money out of you, but will sell to you at a higher price for the privilege of buying at a contractor supplier. I have lived in 5 states and Florida is by far the most difficult to get supplies in for a reasonable price. For example I buy my hardwoods from MD to NC because I save 25% and make the trip 3 - 5 times a year anyway. I am thinking of borrowing my neighbors trailer and hall a couple hundred sheets of plywood back with me, selling some to cover my costs. I had one dealer here try to charge me $110.00 for a 4' X 8' X 3/4" sheet for maple unfinished two years ago which is what started me buying my wood up north. Also had a "Cabinet supply" I use the term lightly. try to charge me $6.00 for one Blum hinge which I bought on line for $2.45. I guess these experiences are what prompted me to see what others are getting supplies for.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Price structure for contractors supplies and materials varies widely based on the volume you use. The guy that buys conduit in bales of 10,000 feet gets a lot better price than the guy buying it in bundles of 100 feet; probably close to half.


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## DanLyke (Feb 8, 2007)

Out here in Northern California there are plenty of smaller contractors who'd be quite happy to tag your order on to theirs so that they get their volume up. The guy who did our floors indicated that he was happy to help us buy from Higgins, though we've found Mount Storm nicer and easier to deal with.

And for the right plywood $110 a sheet is a bargain (I think we're paying about $125 for the 3/4" maple veneer ApplePly we're using, still doesn't really count in the face of forty bucks a drawer for slides), but I'm guessing that wasn't void free with lots and lots of plys… We have gone with the pre-finished 1/2" for the drawers, but we still hit that with something in the 300 grit range and another coat of poly 'cause we like a matte finish.

For hinges and hardware, yeah, that's a commodity, shop around. We've gotten the Blum slides online (from Woodworker's Hardware), we've bought hinges from Mount Storm.


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## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

Two years ago I was able to get the Maple ply A1 I think it was for $55.00 a sheet unfinished from McDaniel's in WV. That's a good idea to give the refinished a coat of Polly I think the pre-finished stuff is to glossy anyway.
It looks as though the consensus is you *will not *save any money but you *can get *a better cabinet.
OK then I will save and total all my receipts photograph each segment as I build each one and install it. 
I picked up a quote from a kitchen guy that knows I am building my own kitchen He said to come to him if I get snagged. If I do, I will, but I am sure it will go fine. He came in at $13,600.00 for 28 LF with no counters and 19' of top cabinets. The cabinets are birch painted off white the draws are dove tail joints with soft close hinges, no handles. I have a budget of 11K with counter tops and appliances for me to DIM (Do It Myself) I think I should save at least 5 maybe 7 thousand Not counting the floor . Based on local labor rates to lay 20" ceramic tile I saved $3,600.00 doing it myself. I have done the whole house in tile it looks good, cleans easy and stays cool in the summer so I am happy with that so far.


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## dhg (Mar 27, 2008)

Sandhill, you will definatly get a better cabinet building them yourself. with little extras that you can put in like roll out shelves and other custom upgrades for your house that you want that you wouldn't get anywhere else.

I'm just finishing a 18 cabinet kitchen job and before I ordered anything, I used a cabinet program called Cabinet Planner that you draw up the layout of the cabinets and it will calculate the materials that you need plus cut diagrams of all the parts. Print labels for all the parts to keep them organized. You can customize the program to your cabinet style. The program was fantastic to use. saved alot on guessing how much material to order.

Have fun,

Rich


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## North40 (Oct 17, 2007)

I can't tell you how many times I've bid jobs only to be told, "Oh, I can get them cheaper at Lowes." Several times those people have called back later to say that their bid from Lowes didn't include installation, crown, toe kick, filler strips, end panels, etc, etc. and any upgrades they wanted were outrageously expensive. In the end they wound up paying more than my bid for cheap-o cabinets.


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## dennis (Aug 3, 2006)

I have yet to have HomeDespot beat my price. My bids are about 1/3 material 2/3 labor. There is no way I could give you a bid on that amount of information. The real question is do you want to build them yourself. There is a lot of time in a building a kitchen.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

That is the only reason I didn't build my own, TIME :-((


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## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

Dennis I love your creations, does it take longer to build in your style than traditional cabinetry. Gee I thought if I build the kitchen myself I could get a wide belt sander to do the doors…LOL


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## rhett (May 11, 2008)

Dennis, how on earth can you be building kitchen cabinets cheaper than HD, Lowes or any factory set and still be in business? I looked at your site, and if your customers are getting that level of woodwork cheaper than store bought, you ain't making enough money my friend. Even at bulk pricing, materials/hardware alone are usually within 20% of full factory prices. I love to cut wood, but not for minimum wage.

Sandhill, you might want to check out http://uniquedrawerboxes.com you can order precut unassembled dovetail drawers to specs and have them shipped for a reasonable price. You can also put in your specs and get realtime estimates for your drawers.


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## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

Wow I will check them out thanks. All though They are in CA. I am in FL thats a big shipping bill on so much weight aprox 20 draws but worth looking into.


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## sIKE (Feb 14, 2008)

The main thing about doing cabinets yourself is two fold. Are you a square kinda of guy, if not have somebody else make them. The second is finishing them that takes a lot of time and space….

Season 20 of The New Yankee Workshop contained 9 episodes on building out set of custom cabinets for a kitchen. You can get the DVD's and plans from his site.


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## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

Hey Frankie you going to hook me up with hardware? LOL When I get back from my travels I will check your site to see what you have.


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## azal (Mar 26, 2008)

sandhill you could build face frames and rail/stiles out of poplar cheper and if painting don't matter. use 1/4 for door panels MDF and stable in all that humidity!!!


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## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

I just found one of our Lumber Jocks that did his own kitchen Nice job JayDee


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## dennis (Aug 3, 2006)

Ok Guys here is the scoop. I have my furniture on this site, but day to day i build a simple face frame, melamine, cabinet with inexpensive hardware. My furniture very rarely sells. Seems that people like it, but it just doesn't fit with their decor. Having to eat I do the kitchen thing. No I don't make enough money, or have enough clamps!


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## DanYo (Jun 30, 2007)

a thousand dollars will buy a lot of materials


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## tooldad (Mar 24, 2008)

I ball park for materials $150-200 per linear foot for prefinished maple ply with flat panel doors and $250 per foot. I then add $100 a foot for labor and $50 a foot for installation and I can usually hit is just about right.

Last kitchen I calculated was 18LF, about $2300 in materials. finished cabinets from a middle missouri builder that deals through one of our discount centers, not HD or lowes, was about $2000.

In St Louis area, Maple prefinished 3/4 is $72, and 1/2 is $65. Oak is $2/ft and poplar is $1/ft. Slides are $3 for white type, $10 for full extension, and $20 for self closing. $1.50 a hinge for the blum style.


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## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

This is what I was looking for there Tooldad. I just did a sketch up model for one side of the kitchen! My scale measurements are not so good and I suck at sketch up so I will be using a story stick to build these. What I do like is this gives me an idea how its going to look. Behind the section of bottom cabinets is a door so basicly there will be an open walk way 36" wide going out to the shop! The top is really 7' X 7' the other side across from the fridge is where the sink goes and its 9' with the sink in the middle and the dish washer to the right.








!


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

tooldad, does your lineal foot number include both uppers and lowers?


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## Julian (Sep 30, 2008)

lineal foot measurements are by the TOTAL footage of cabinet, so if there's uppers you'd double the measurment.


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## RobH (Apr 25, 2007)

Sandhill,

May have already been said, but I do not have time to read all the replies. You probably can buy cabinets for cheaper, but remember, you get what you pay for. You really want to compare apples to apples. It sounds like you know what you want. Walk into a cabinet shop and give them the run-down on what you want. Then do a better estimate of what materials you will need and go shopping. If you really want to know, take a drawing and a parts list into the cab guy and say I want this built with these materials, give me a price. You should be able to see what you will be saving then. I know of several people who have done this and paid roughly 1/3 of their quoted price from a cabinet company.

Let us know how things go,


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Sandhill, I was just looking at yoiur drawing. If the scale and proportions are all correct, I thnik the access to the Lazy Susan in the corner is too small. just my opinion.


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## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

I have all ready changed that thanks. I have a stainless unit that goes into the corner and slides right then out. Thanks your right 9" would have been to small.


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## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

Kitchen is Done all thats left is counter tops a little electric and the rest of the plumbing. Photos to follow in a week or two.


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## huff (May 28, 2009)

Sandhill, I see I wasn't even on LJ's when you first posted this, so I read all the post to catch up on what's happening. I see it's been about 14-15 months since you first posted this forum. Did it take you that long to build the kitchen? I can't wait to see your pictures. This is a project I'm sure you are really proud of and hope price wise, it turned out the way you expected. Keep us posted.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

+1. would love to get an update on total cost, and pictures to see how it came out.


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