# Woodworking and Prevagen



## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Anyone have any success with it regarding making stupid, no, moronic mistakes? How about safety?

I've already quit doing anything after 8, thinking I don't want to take a chance on Sundowner.

I'm 64, I would consider myself above avg in intelligence.

I consider myself an expert at fixing mistakes, which makes me a good craftsman, but just once, I would like to walk 25 feet to my miter saw and not have to throw something away.

Or sit there wondering why tools seem to disappear into the ether.


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## 987Ron (Apr 9, 2020)

try 82 or is it 81, forgot


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## LesB (Dec 21, 2008)

Everyone's brain is different. Some fail earlier than others. I'm 79 and still functioning well although do have a problem recalling names at times….had that problem forever.

My Dr. says the only know way to stimulate the brain is to kepp active and use it. Prevagen is just another product made by the Snake Oil people.

Just do a little more "double checking" before you cut.


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## AMZ (Jan 27, 2020)

I will be 68 tomorrow and your best action to to stay active. Tired of being in the shop? Go read for a while! In any case, don't resign your life to an easy chair!


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

I also make stupid mistakes I've tried to leave myself notes. Every once in a while I find piece of wood that I wrote save. I have no idea what my notes mean or why I'm saving small scraps of wood.
I blame it all on chemical trails in the sky or too many Greatful Dead shows.  
Good Luck always


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## NotThatJeff (Sep 23, 2020)

Hi Robert,

I'm 57 (took me 20 seconds to work that out..) and I recently started having weird memory and cognitive issues. (Abruptly feeling confused and realizing I'm about to pour cream into the coffee filter, or not knowing which "stuff" to put on my toothbrush.) In my case, it seems to be a problem with very short term ("working") memory.

One thing to look into if you haven't already is sleep apnea. My symptoms (which feel distinctly different from normal senior moments) seemed to start after I went on a month vacation without my CPAP machine. The initial test for sleep apnea involves sleeping one night with a pulse oximiter clamped on your finger. My O2 was dropping down into the low 80's (should be over 90) when I took the test.

I knew I had sleep apnea b/c I shared a room with a colleague on a business trip and he said he thought I was choking to death all night long. And trying to fall asleep was grueling b/c the choking kept waking me up.

So consider if you might have sleep apnea. Especially (although not exclusively) if you are a bit on the heavy side.

Whatever the cause, I've found it good to be detached but very aware of the nature of these changes. IOW, don't freak out or obsess about it, but constantly ask yourself how you would describe each particular episode or weird experience. Write it down. This makes it a tiny bit more likely that when you communicate with a doctor they will a) know that you are serious about your concern and b) possibly recognize a pattern.

More specifically, each and every time you notice something strange of frustrating "happen", ask yourself if it could possibly pose a safety risk. When I use a table saw or drive, for example, I know exactly what all the dangerous aspects of the situation is and never waver from that. (It's when I'm relaxed and in familiar situations that my mind slips up.) I do make wrong turns even within a block of my house, but that doesn't pose a safety threat. If I ever notice something that might be dangerous, it's time to make some changes.

Anyway, sorry to hear about your concerns and good luck to you. Hope this helps, even if just to know that someone else can relate.


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## ibewjon (Oct 2, 2010)

Not dismissing a possible medical problem, but the only person that doesn't make stupid mistakes is the one that doesn't do anything. We all make them, old or young. Definitely check on your sleep.


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## Karda (Nov 19, 2016)

I second everything, I have epilepsy I have had it since child hood. Epilepsy causes cognitive disfunction as does many of the drugs used to control it. So i was living with forgetfulness and confusion all my life. but when i hit my 60s I began old age forgetfulness. I have a bad habit of evaluating major purchases by how long I will be sable to do it. But i try not to do that that Is almost as bad as quitting. Keep on doing what you are doing but be aware of your surroundings and paranoid about where your finger are around saws. To put a point on it don't cripple yourself


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

I've made just about every mistake you can make in the shop short of cutting off critical bits. Hard lessons are the ones you learn the most from.

For the older worker the best investment you can make is *MORE LIGHT!* It's what you can't see that bites you.


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## Karda (Nov 19, 2016)

definitely plenty of light


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## Bstrom (Aug 30, 2020)

I don't have the liability of having to defend any level of intelligence, which makes me equal to anyone on fixing mistakes. But, I agree late hours can be a danger to anyone. If we have a clear idea of what we're trying to accomplish we are less likely to flub badly. Allows more attention to use proper methods - not madness - and a safer work period.


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

I studied the research behind people making mistakes, and about the only thing different between a trained beginner and an expert is that the expert makes fewer mistakes. In the case I looked at, it was for computer programmers. I'm going to pick up a book about mindfulness, once I remember to stop by the book store. Maybe I'll read about it online before I cough up money for a book.


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)

More light is 2x what you useta need!


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

I've found there's two different kinds of mistakes I make woodworking. 
One is a slip of the hand
The other is a slip of the mind both are acceptable because they happen as a natural human defect.
Only the ones that are fatal to the build or the human unacceptable.
Some of my stupid mental mistakes have lead me down a path that I've found a nice surprise.
So can not say that it was wrong.

That's all from me sorry for getting heavy

Good Luck


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## CWWoodworking (Nov 28, 2017)

Most of my mistakes happen very close to the 7-8th hour of work. WW is mentally taxing. Dimensions, joinery all swirling around on top of worrying if it's gonna look right. It took me awhile to acclimate to focusing for 8 hrs/day.

I'm busy as h3!! Right now so working 10/11 hr days. The last couple hours are rough.


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

sam maloof said in an interview that every piece he ever made has a mistake in it


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

The sleep apnea thing I have to think about. My wife has complained of me snoring much deeper than usual.

Sometimes I do have focus issues, my mind tends to wander and I think some of it is I usually listen to podcasts that might be distracting me.

Think I'll go back to music and see if that helps.


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## AlanWS (Aug 28, 2008)

Keep active, and see if you can develop habits to recheck things.

Vision is very important. Not only do you need sufficient light (probably more than you once needed) but glasses matter a lot. I wear continuous bifocals, but found that a pair of single-distance glasses at computer or bench distance made me much more relaxed while working. It removed effort I didn't realize I was making just to see everything I needed to see.


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## AndyJ1s (Jan 26, 2019)

I have obstructive sleep apnea, and when I was diagnosed (in my early 40's, I'm now 57) and got my CPAP, it was like night and day for me.

I had all the classic signs: nodding off during (even good) meetings, or while working at my desk. Couldn't stay awake for evening TV shows I really enjoyed. I even dosed off at a stop light on the way home from work, but luckily did not take my foot off the brake.

In fact, during my sleep study to ultimately diagnose it, they finally got the CPAP pressure level titrated at 1:30AM. When they woke me up at 5:30 to go home, I felt like a new man! Those 4 hours of complete sleep, the first in probably years, made me feel like a million bucks!

I also found out my blood O2 had been falling to 83% multiple times per night!

Energy, cognitive ability and mood all improved substantially and quickly with regular use of my CPAP.

And I'm the first to know if we have a power failure at night 

I regularly sleep through the night now.

All I can say is, if you think you might have sleep apnea, and especially if you:

1. wake up multiple times at night to urinate (your brain is usually conditioned to urinate shortly after you wake up; I thought I was waking up because I had to urinate)

2. wake up in the middle of the night out of breath, especially if gasping,

3. have acid reflux at night (if you have obstructive sleep apnea bad enough, your diaphram/lungs will push/suck your stomach acid up your esophagus while you are sleeping, and it burns like heck if it is sucked all the way into your windpipe/lungs)

4. or can't stay awake in the afternoon/evening,

then call your doctor.

I'm sure glad I called mine!


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## NotThatJeff (Sep 23, 2020)

Yeah, that was my experience too.

Sleep was so wonderful after that: actually restful.

Work was (sorta) wonderful after that: I could do things like stay awake and think again.

I read online about people who found their CPAP gear uncomfortable.

===> ARE YOU (%^&^&%$) KIDDING ME??? !!! <=======

It was like someone caught me from falling over a cliff, pulled me up and gave me a 27-course gourmet meal. No way I'd complain if their hands were dirty.


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## jkm312 (Jan 13, 2020)

Everything ALL of us do in our shops takes TIME. Takes more time than we picture in our minds, always. All of my epic mistakes happened because I was in a hurry because I didn't have or allow enough time.

Forget about all those 30 minute DIY TV shows. That's not real life, just entertainment for 17 minutes out of 30. They very rarely show all the prep work we all know goes into a 20 second take where it all fits perfect.

Never work in the shop if you are tired, hurried or distracted. All those machines are made to cut and they don't care what they cut. They are just sitting their with time on their side waiting for you.

Point I'm making is don't fight the clock, think about what you are doing, enjoy the process, satisfaction and relax.

Take a break for awhile. Then go back and enjoy your shop

You are asking the same question we all ask ourselves from time to time. Pep talk is over.


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## Bonka (Apr 13, 2012)

I'm 77. I'm happy that when I take a shower nothing falls off.


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## OldBull (Apr 30, 2020)

Where is my pen ? Where is that stupid tape measure ?

Now what did I walk over here for ?


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## northwoodsman (Feb 22, 2008)

A little over 6 months ago I had a stroke. I'm not your typical stroke patient because I didn't lose strength or body functions, I just lost my balance functions. My cognitive and memory functions were off the chart so I just had to learn how to stand, walk, navigate things like steps, drive, etc. I was seeing double for about 6 weeks which didn't help. I was extremely lucky because after a few months I was out of the hospital and back at work. The weird thing is the easier the task the more likely I am to forget what I'm doing. Give me something detailed and difficult and I'll nail it. Today was a perfect example - I need to put on my shoes and go get the mail. On the way to grab my shoes (20' away) I stopped to use the bathroom. That was it. I had no idea what I was on my way to do. I just remembered two minutes ago that I never made it out to get the mail this morning. I'm in my mid 50's and ironically my stroke was a result of kick back on the table saw.


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## Karda (Nov 19, 2016)

how did a stroke happen because of your TS


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## northwoodsman (Feb 22, 2008)

> how did a stroke happen because of your TS
> 
> - Karda


The piece of wood impaled itself into my stomach a little over an inch deep. The force/reaction through me backwards several feet and I snapped my head back quickly, this severed one of the vertebral arties carrying blood to my brain, right at the base of the brain. I didn't know it at the time. I woke up at 4:00 a.m. exactly a week later with a severe headache. I got out of bed and took some ibuprofen. An hour later I was still laying there wide awake and I got out of bed to take additional ibuprofen and I collapsed to the floor. I couldn't feel the left side of the body and it was ice-cold. Scans showed that a clot formed and worked its way loose (it was the cause of the headache). The doctors and surgeons tell me that If I hadn't have woken up that the outcome would have been much different. Now I get to deal with it the rest of my life. Be careful!


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

> I have obstructive sleep apnea, and when I was diagnosed (in my early 40 s, I m now 57) and got my CPAP, it was like night and day for me.
> 
> I had all the classic signs: nodding off during (even good) meetings, or while working at my desk. Couldn t stay awake for evening TV shows I really enjoyed. I even dosed off at a stop light on the way home from work, but luckily did not take my foot off the brake.
> 
> ...


I was diagnosed with apnea in the mid 90's before it was a thing, before cpap machines. I had an operation then and it cleared up most of it. Four years ago I bought myself a cpap machine, diagnosed the mitigation needs myself and I've been on it since. I began reading the plethora of dangerous research about people who had long term even moderate symptoms in most body systems.
I can relate to many of your symptoms.

~I never had or have to get up to urinate. I'm 66 and seem to be lucky that way. Or I have a huge bladder.. ;-)

~Acid reflux… man, have you seen the alien dripping acid from his mouth in the movie 'Aliens'? That was me, at 1 am leaning over in bed with a burning mouth acid dripping on the floor.

~ Fall asleep on the john or in the shower in the morning (standing up!)

~ Couldn't drive longer than about 20 minutes.

Most people can tell if they have apnea. If your spouse says you snore unmercifully and the biggest noise comes when you suck in air but you can't and your breath breaks through with a loud snorting snore. with some people it happens 60 or more times an hour. It did with me. 5 or fewer times is considered normal. Some people have obstructive apnea but don't do this though.

Brain strengthening supplements are probably a crock. No research and they're trying to sell stuff. My doctor laughs at them. Sleep apnea. It's a real thing with so many people who have it. It needs to be mitigated by some method if you think you have it. It will do real damage.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

I'm definitely going to get a sleep test as a rule out if. I need to know.

Count down to Medícare 20 weeks….....

That said, yesterday I avoided the podcasts and listened to music had a great day in the shop.

Another thing I've thought about is video inducing attention deficit. I know watch too much YouTube and TV. If I read after supper I fall asleep, I fall asleep even watching TV. When that happens I'm up at 3AM.

I know pulse oximetry is part of apnea diagnosis. Has anyone used a recording pulse oximeter while sleeping? I've read pros and cons.


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

> I'm definitely going to get a sleep test as a rule out if. I need to know.
> 
> Count down to Medícare 20 weeks….....
> 
> ...


Medicare, or other insurance will pay for it. Your doctor will send you to a specialist who will do an overnight sleep study. I went my own route just to have control over my machine. When you do it via insurance you have to let them have control over settings which they do over the wireless built into the cpap machine. And you have to pretty much use it all the time to continue payment. It's called "compliance". But most people go that route with good success. If you do have apnea you will always want it on at night. I noticed a difference in on day.

There is another type of apnea called 'central apnea' where your brain just stops your breathing. No snoring, no grunting. When you get low on oxygen your higher brain kicks in and makes you breath. Same effect but not too noticeable. Central apnea is a bit rarer and requires a different sort of machine to fix it called a bipap device.

Oximeters are about $15 on Amazon. I've got one that I use while exercising. It fits on your finger and gives you a reading in a few seconds. Getting one that records or connects to a cpap machine though is fairly pricy, but they do have them.

Way, way back when I diagnosed my own apnea I brought a camcorder home from work. It was one of those big vhs ones you put on your shoulder, I set it on a dresser and recorded myself. You can go to sleep then have someone (spouse?) turn on a light and prop a cell phone up someplace and let it record for awhile. But, for most people, the apnea is very noticeable. Often a partner will become concerned watching someone fight to breath at night. If that's happening then the person probably has an issue. I was a science teacher for 30 years and when I diagnosed mine I became a student of it to mitigate my own issue with it.

*Research now shows that sleep apnea causes or contributes to:*
Enlarged heart
High blood pressure
kidney damage
diabetes
short term memory loss (reversible with treatment, it takes 3 months to begin and up to a year to reverse it)
interestingly, car accidents.
And a bunch of other stuff.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Well, my opinion is that….wait, what was the question?


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## northwoodsman (Feb 22, 2008)

I have both obstructive and central sleep apnea. Ask up front whether your insurance company buys the equipment outright or leases it. My insurance company leased mine and when my company changed carriers twice over a few years I had to do the test over again. If they buy it chances are they won't need to see the data after 6 or 12 months. Try to get them to purchase it then it's always yours. I googled how to get my ResMed AirSense 10 into clinical mode and I change the settings as the need arises for my comfort. The sleep test was the worst part of the process. They say it's like sleeping in a hotel. Yeah right, maybe like one that you pay by the hour. Haha.

My CPAP is a life saver. I highkly recommend the ResMed AirSense 10. I have two masks - the nasal that I use about 99% of the time, and a full face that I use when I have a cold and my sinuses are clogged. I have never tried the nasal pillows. I also have a ResMed Mini for travel and the thing sounds like a jet engine.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

I am 86 today and notice a slowdown in my thought process. Right now, I seem to forget the names of people, but that may be because I don't see them much. My day to day focus is on everyday chores, like cooking, paying bills, maintaining a medicine log, etc. My wife used to take care of most of the everyday concerns, but now that I am retired and my wife is in poor health, much is placed on my shoulders. Thank God I can still perform, abet at a slower pace. I try to stay relaxed and not let anyone rush or push me. When pushed, that's when accidents happen. I am more fortunate than most. I live on a SS income, own my home, a 2000 sf home on 8 acres in semi rural Mississippi. My next door neighbors are far enough away that I barely know they are there. My son lives next door and that gives me much comfort. He is in the Air Force for close to 30 years now so is a very responsible person. He is one I never have to worry about. The same goes for my daughter who is a very responsible person who lives 15 minutes away from me. No one in my extended family is on drugs or running from the police. In fact where I live, we respect the police and thankfully, we have not had any problems that plagues the rest of the country. After all these years, I guess I must have done something right as my life and the lives of those I love has been smooth sailing. I know there are problems others face and I feel for them. Even though I don't think of myself as a religious person, every night I say my prayers and thank God for what I have.
Sorry for the OT. Have a good one.


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

> I have both obstructive and central sleep apnea. Ask up front whether your insurance company buys the equipment outright or leases it. My insurance company leased mine and when my company changed carriers twice over a few years I had to do the test over again. If they buy it chances are they won t need to see the data after 6 or 12 months. Try to get them to purchase it then it s always yours. I googled how to get my ResMed AirSense 10 into clinical mode and I change the settings as the need arises for my comfort. The sleep test was the worst part of the process. They say it s like sleeping in a hotel. Yeah right, maybe like one that you pay by the hour. Haha.
> 
> My CPAP is a life saver. I highkly recommend the ResMed AirSense 10. I have two masks - the nasal that I use about 99% of the time, and a full face that I use when I have a cold and my sinuses are clogged. I have never tried the nasal pillows. I also have a ResMed Mini for travel and the thing sounds like a jet engine.
> 
> - northwoodsman


I have the Phillips Respironics one. I use the nasal mask but there are no pillows. It sits like a saddle under your nose and works very well. For travel I use the same machine. And for the camper I've got a 12 volt adapter.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Mr Ron you have a been blessed. I wish I could say then same about drugs and police I have an adopted son who has chosen a criminal way of life.

It is all to frequent many families are affected by drug abuse.

I think we all have a row to hoe in life, but it is nice to hear from you.


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## cracknpop (Dec 20, 2011)

Robert, glad you posted this question. You can tell by the responses you are definitely not alone. And while fading memory is common in the aging population, there are several potential factors at play. But we don't have to simply accept it, we can fight to reverse it.

- Sleep apnea can certainly adversely affect your cognitive ability. Today, there are multiple options for "at home testing" you or your doctor can order. But also know, sleep apnea can be a symptom of other underlying issues.
- Consider hormone testing including testosterone, cortisol, and DHEA. Declining hormones can cause a multitude of symptoms that many would attribute to "you're just getting old".
- Focus on improving your nutritional intake. Get your blood sugars under control, making a shift away from cheap carbohydrates (sugars and grains) and include healthier fats and proteins. Whole30.com can be a good place to start (good plan, plenty of recipes, don't have to buy/subscribe). I know many who have reported improved mental acuity and energy after shifting to more of a low carb, higher fat diet (keto diet).
- Hydrate well with water, brain is about 75% water. Also need electrolytes so don't cut sodium too short. Magnesium (especially magnesium-threonate) is also very important.
- Exercise, both resistance and cardio. This does not need to be intense… brisk walk, bicycle, even dancing, 2-3X/week.

If you haven't talked with your primary care physician about this yet, perhaps that is the best place to start. But I would NOT feel confident if they quickly wrote a prescription without much investigation. You might also consider consulting a physician that specializes in 'functional medicine' or 'anti-aging medicine'. Regular chiropractic care can also be very helpful in maintaining your mobility as well.

OK, I've given you a pretty good list of things to do. Better get after it… you're not getting any younger! (Sorry, couldn't resist. LOL)


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## AndyJ1s (Jan 26, 2019)

I also have the Respironics mask, and like it a lot! It was not available when I first started, but I switched to it when my original mask model was no longer made. I like the mask styles that connect to the hose at the top of my head, so I can roll over without having the hose bother me.

My wife has one too (she has only been on CPAP for a few years.)

Colds are not nearly as bad as before I got my CPAP. The positive air pressure (I was told mine is as high as I can go without going to Bi-PAP) keeps my sinuses open so I can breath better at night.

My latest pump seems to do a better job at regulating the pressure when I breath out, keeping it from rising against my outgoing breath.


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