# PM2000, Sawstop and Unisaw Compentition.



## agallant (Jul 1, 2010)

This is just a more of a wondering kinda question but with a PM2000, Unisaw and Sawstop PCS all costing about the same and everyone choosing the sawstop, who is still buying the Unisaw and Powermatic? How/why are Powermatic and Delta keeping those product lines around and why are they not building a safety feature to compete with Saw Stop?

With that said I did like my Unisaw better than my sawstop but when I moved I had no place to put it into storage for 6 months and went with the SS for the safety feature when I got my new place. If I could have kept my Unisaw I would have and if SS did not have the safety feature I would have ended up with another Unisaw.

From Google:
3HP SS $2,729
Unisaw $2,649
Powermatic $2,959


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

The Unisaw and Powermatic do go on sale from time to time, and also do not require the extra brakes which add to the cost. I think real world cost on them has the Sawstop above the Uni and PM in most cases. When I was looking at new cabinet saws, I went to the local Woodcraft and the only cabinet saws they had on display was the SS. I could not even find a new Uni or PM locally to look at. The sales guy acted like "everyone" was just buying the SS. They could not justify the floor space for the Uni or PM. The PM also comes with a mobile base, while the SS does not.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

My guess would be that they perceive this safety feature to be a niche market and as such see no real ROI on the R&D to develop something like SS without patent issues. At the $2500 price range you are dealing with someone more than a casual weekend wood butcher (generally speaking). In watching woodworking videos I have not seen but a rare SS user, Nick Fury comes to mind. Others like Matthias Wandel, Steve Ramsey and John Heisz don't have them or promote them. You do see alot of ads for things like the Gripper and a ton of "ultimate pushstick videos".


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## EugdOT (Nov 17, 2016)

I just got a ss, for 1 reasons is safety, because I have little kids and even though I lock my garage and don't operate anything when they are around, they are always looking and exploring touching everything would not live with myself if anything ever happened. I was looking into the jet 3hp saw around 2,000 then ended getting a ss on blackfriday with the 30% Off from zoro


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

> My guess would be that they perceive this safety feature to be a niche market and as such see no real ROI on the R&D to develop something like SS without patent issues.
> 
> - woodbutcherbynight


I agree with the second half of the sentence, but I'm not sure how you can justify the first half since the SS outsells PM and Delta. Can't be niche if it is the market leader.,


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## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

I believe a more realistic comparison would be the Sawstop ICS, not the PCS - so your price differential is much greater. For example, the Unisaw has a 31" deep (front to back) table, while the PCS is only 27" and the ICS is 30", PM2000 is 30.5". Unisaw weighs in at around 661 pounds, PCS is around 450 pounds, ICS is 680 and the PM2000 is 600+ pounds. Unisaw has 13.5" of table in front of the blade (at max height), the PCS is 10.25", ICS is 10.75" and the PM2000 is 11.25". In most head-to-head reviews I've seen at the various woodworking magazine web sites, it's the ICS that is compared to the other two, not the PCS… perhaps for a good reason 

There are also some obvious differences between them that might make a difference in choice - like the front mounted controls on the Unisaw and the dial indicator for bevel angle accurate to 1/10 of a degree. The PM2000 has a cast iron plinth, and comes from the factory with a built in caster system (so no additional cost for a mobile base). The Unisaw can take up to a 1-1/8" dado stack, while the others are limited to 13/16". And the Sawstops have a lot of restrictions on what blades you can use, which the other two don't. For example, forget using a moulding head on the SS… or 7-1/4" blades (or anything other than a 10" blade actually)... or a thin kerf blade less than 3/32"... or a 6" dado stack… or any blade with an anti-kickback design… and so on. And if it matters, you might want to consider adding long term maintenance costs, which is much higher on the SS for several reasons.

As for SS being the market leader… I'm still looking for hard numbers to back that up… something other than what the Sawstop marketing department claims (without any evidence that I've seen). Manufacturers don't publish sales information broken out by model, so I'm a bit suspicious. The only numbers I've seen are for the market as a whole, which includes portables, contractor, hybrid and cabinet saw sales - of which Sawstop represents less than 1%.

Cheers,
Brad


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

Well I too own a SS, and remember when it first came out and I wanted one right away. I had to save for a long long time to get my 5hp ICS, and I remember the story being that he originally had no intention of building a saw. He shopped it around to all the major brands and they all turned him down. I think he wanted 10% or something. If I remember right The big guys were afraid that if it ever failed the liability of a lawsuit would totaly bankrupt them.

Not accepting "NO" he decided to build one, and if he was going to do it being a wood worker too, it was going to be a good one. I think he did it. I love my saw

I was not impressed with delta as its delta in name only. The PM is a nice saw and has some great features. I own a lot of powermatic and love the brand.

I also consididered the Euro and went and looked at a few of those up close and used them. If I had picked another saw it would have been a euro slider from a design perspective. In the end, I'm happy with Mine and would not own anything else at this point.


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## agallant (Jul 1, 2010)

> As for SS being the market leader… I m still looking for hard numbers to back that up… something other than what the Sawstop marketing department claims (without any evidence that I ve seen). Manufacturers don t publish sales information broken out by model, so I m a bit suspicious. The only numbers I ve seen are for the market as a whole, which includes portables, contractor, hybrid and cabinet saw sales - of which Sawstop represents less than 1%.


I don't think there is any solid information besides marketing stuff from Sawstop saying they are the market leader I just know from the local wood working shops in my area all of them have told me that they pretty much have cut back on heavily stocking other saws as most people come in for a SawStop.


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

Here' s how I know that SS is the market leader for cabinet table saws-they have been claiming it for some years and their competitors are not challenging it in their marketing.


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