# How to do dadoes, rabbets & grooves by hand, without a specialty plane



## HarveyDunn

Hi all,

Can I get a clean dadoes, rabbet or groove using hand-tools only, without using a specialty plane? I'm going to sharpen up a chisel today and start practicing on some scrap wood. I'm wondering how to control the depth. I was thinking of measuring the desired depth on my saw blade and/or chisel, drawing a line there with a Sharpie, then sawing/chopping until that line is level is with the face of the board. And then pare out the waste and sand.


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## A10GAC

Yes you can. Check out the "Poor Man's Router Plane" by Paul Sellers.

Here's the Blog Post >> http://paulsellers.com/2012/06/pauls-poor-mans-router/

And the Video >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2aFwjAgk

Or the advanced version that uses a hex key >> http://paulsellers.com/2012/03/not-so-poor-mans-router-really-works/


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## JayT

Check out this video from The English Woodworker blog for chopping out the majority. Then, to clean up the bottom, you could use Paul Seller's poor man's router


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## mds2

+1 on what JayT posted. I did that on the last cabinet I built.


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## HarveyDunn

Thanks guys, but:
1) building my own router plane is still using a specialty plane; and
2) I don't have a grinding wheel, so grinding the hex key into shape would take all day, wouldn't it?


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## bigblockyeti

Are you trying to avoid power tools for the sake of seeing if it can be done or is there some other reason? I only ask, because if you don't have a router, you can get a good used one usually for less than $50 and get what bit you need when you need it vs. buying a set. I know it may sound a little nosey, but in my profession, it's important to understand why something needs to be a certain way to solve the problem presented.


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## HarveyDunn

No problem, bigblockyeti. I'm setting up a workspace in a spare room inside the house, on a budget. So I am both pinching my pennies and trying to avoid creating noise and not fling swarf, and sawdust everywhere.


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## donwilwol

personally I would make the router plane from the chisel, but you could clamp some stops on your saw to make it similar to a stair makers saw.


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## A10GAC

Getting an exact depth without a jig such as the poor man's router plane takes practice, but can be done.

Shannon Roger's shows one method using just a chisel here >> http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/chiseling-a-rabbet/

And here>> 



 if you skip to the middle (about 14:43 through 25:46 minutes) Paul Sellers demonstrates a similar technique while making a shooting board.

Paul & Shannon are great resources for hand tool skills, both present the knowledge very well, and don't encourage the average woodworker to spend huge $$ on jigs & tools.

BTW, I'm a big fan of the Sharpie, but I prefer a 0.5mm mechanical pencil in the shop. In a pinch, I have beveled the lead in a carpenters pencil to a knife edge and used that to mark very fine lines. The edge doesn't last for more than a few lines, but can be easily touched up on some sandpaper.


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## Loren

Cutting gauge can help. Easy to make one.

Dado cheeks used to be sawn with a dado saw, a long
back saw. I suppose you would clamp a guide to
the work and run the saw against it. Once the 
sides are cut, getting the waste out with a chisel
is easy.


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## bigblockyeti

Yeah, the noise, especially inside, I can imagine would be unacceptable for most. Even if the router and bits were free!


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## Tim457

Paul Seller's poor man's router isn't really a specialty plane, it's a chisel stuck through a 2×4. But if you consider that a speciality plane and want to avoid that for some reason, then yes, you can mark the depth, cut the sides with a saw and chisel out the middle. You still need to do that first with a router plane or the poor mans router anyway because they are best only for the last 1/16" or so. Like Loren and other said, buy or make a marking gauge though, it will be much more accurate than marking with a sharpie.


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## HarveyDunn

Sorry, I got confused, I thought Paul Seller's poor man's router was the homemade router plane made with a ground hex key. Thanks for the correction.

I mentioned the Sharpie as a means to mark the stop line on the chisel or the saw…not the wood.


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## Mosquito

I would use tape rather than a sharpie. I wouldn't want to mark up my saws.

And trust me, I feel your pain on not wanting to make that big of a mess or noise… my shop is the spare bedroom in my apartment, for the past year and a half.

I would recommend getting a router plane, at some point, though. It makes life a lot easier.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Router plane = less noise than hammer and chisel


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## HarveyDunn

The noise comparison was not router plane vs. hammer and chisel but power router vs. hand tool. Also, I already own a hammer and a set of chisels. I'm drawing up a project that is going to require various kinds of grooves and rabbets varying from 1/8" to 3/4". It would be awesome if I could make them all with what I already own rather than trolling for vintage planes on eBay for days/weeks looking the perfect combination of condition and price.


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## Tim457

Yeah you can do that for sure. A home made router plane with hex keys will be an upgrade from the poor mans router, but they do take a lot of time to grind the hex keys into blades. If budget is the primary concern though, either will work to get you a nice level surface. I should say I was exaggerating on the 2×4 for the poor man's router. Something flatter and more stable would probably work better.

Fancier tools are just there to make specific jobs easier and faster. And to collect for fun for those that like that.


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## ShannonRogers

Harvey, I applaud you for trying to find a simple way without specialty tools. This has been a mantra of mine recently and I'm finding that forcing myself to do without the extra bells and whistles is uncovering a lot of "secrets" to working wood that have been lost to the ages. For me it isn't about making some kind of statement but more as way to uncover efficient methods of working that our forefathers knew intimately. Anyway, enough preaching. You're on the right track with the saw cuts as depth markers. First layout your dado across the face and mark the depth on both edges. Saw the two walls to depth then make another saw cut to depth right down the middle. This relief cut in the middle used to be referred to as the Morten cut (not sure the etymology there…yet) and it not only marks your depth all along the dado but it makes it much easier to chisel out the waste since you aren't trying to break out such a large chip. Use a mallet to whack out most of the waste then pare til the line disappear. Voila, an even dado!


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## HarveyDunn

Shannon, your video, which A10AGC linked to earlier in this thread, was awesome.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop

I think you'll have to settle for less precision in the overall project if you do dados without a router plane. The key is getting repeatable results. You're heading down a road that will require a ton of custom fitting, IMHO. That said, I wish you luck and hope you post updates to take us along on the ride. I'll be cheering for you.


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## kokomoron

Shannon is a very good teacher. I have bee a student of his. BUT I am gonna have ti side with Smitty here. If you are gonna be a hand tool woodworker, the router plane is necessity.


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## donwilwol

When I hear the expression "specialty plane" a router plane doesn't really pop into my mind. Look at LV, or LN or woodcraft and I bet it doesn't fall into the category there either. If you're looking at an all hand tool shop, there will be some essential pieces and this seems to be one of them.


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## ShannonRogers

Ha ha Ron, one of the reasons I listed the Router plane as the ONLY joinery plane in the semester 1 tool list. Thanks Harvey, that video was a lesson in doing without which is usually not necessary but there will be time when the skill to do without will save your bacon.


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## JayT

+1 to Smitty's advice.

My suggestion would be to take the money you are saving from the smoother and jack planes and buy a router plane, either new from Lee Valley or Lie Nielsen or how about a nice vintage 71-1/2 with two blades about a third of the way down the page here

If you want the narrower blades, the Veritas ones from Lee Valley will work just fine.


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## TerryDowning

I'm with ya Harvey

Here is my solution until such time as a router plane finds its way into my shop.



You basically have two options regarding "specialty tools".

Spend Money or Spend time.

Since I do woodworking as a hobby, spending time is usually the way I go.


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