# Easy woodworking table



## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

While I'm putting together dovetail joints, or practicing doing so, I've been struggling with having a decent space and vice to work with. I was wondering if you all thought a woodworking table is something I should be focusing on instead?

I wanted to keep it simple, made with 2×4's and 4×4's so I can transport the materials easily. Any thoughts on this?


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## StephenO (Jun 7, 2011)

The only woodworking procedure that *doesn't* benefit greatly from the workpiece being securely immobilized is when you're throwing it across the room in disgust. But for cutting, planing, paring, chopping, scraping, sanding, and anything else of that nature, a solid bench and vise make everything much, much easier.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

For dimensioning boards with hand planes
there is no substitute for a solid work bench. 
The legs should be solid with substantial 
stretchers between them on the long axis
to prevent the bench shaking while planing.
I used 1/4" threaded rod set in grooves in
my bench stretchers to join the legs together.
In addition to making disassembly easy
any wobbliness can be tuned out by tightening
the nuts on the ends of the rods.

A bench top can be as simple as a slab of
glued-up boards or a more complex affair
with skirts, end caps and a tool tray.

For cutting dovetails the same kind of lateral
forces are not at play, but a solid front vise
is very useful.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

Check out Paul Sellers' youtube video series on making a workbench. A solid, heavy workbench is invaluable.


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

My garage, where I work, has an extremely uneven cement floor. Are there assistant feet or legs that can be used to make it all level, but still keep things from moving around while planing?


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## rodneywt1180b (May 5, 2017)

A good bench makes everything easier. 
Check out some of Chris Schwarz's books on work benches. You'll get an idea of what you need. Don't bother building your dream workbench just yet. Build a basic one and learn what you like and dislike first. Then build your dream bench.
I'd google "dovetail vise images" to get some ideas on a vise.
I recommend a solid top on your bench. It's easier to clamp things to a top that is all one thickness.
How elaborate did you want to go with your levelers? I'd consider some angle iron brackets bolted to the legs and all thread with nuts for levelers. More elaborate but cleaner looking would be to bore the bottom of the legs, inset some coupler nuts then use bolts in the nuts to level the bench.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

While these are kind of spendy imo,
they look like they are easier to adjust than
some which install on the bottom of the
leg.


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

> A good bench makes everything easier.
> Check out some of Chris Schwarz s books on work benches. You ll get an idea of what you need. Don t bother building your dream workbench just yet. Build a basic one and learn what you like and dislike first. Then build your dream bench.
> I d google "dovetail vise images" to get some ideas on a vise.
> I recommend a solid top on your bench. It s easier to clamp things to a top that is all one thickness.
> ...


I watched the first of a series of Paul Seller's videos on YouTube where he show's how to build a workbench. I've got 2×4's already that I was going to glue together as a tabletop. Connecting the top to a base is one thing I get stuck on because it seems there are numerous ways to combine them: S clips, legs through the tabletop, large dovetails, etc.

I'm looking less for an artisan touch and more utilitarian and sturdy!


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## sawdustdad (Dec 23, 2015)

> Connecting the top to a base is one thing I get stuck on because it seems there are numerous ways to combine them: S clips, legs through the tabletop, large dovetails, etc.
> 
> I m looking less for an artisan touch and more utilitarian and sturdy!
> 
> - JohnnyBoy1981


If your base is rigid (braced properly) then attaching the top is much simpler. If you depend on the leg-to-top joint to keep the structure rigid, then that joint is more critical. I prefer to build a base that is braced so that it is a rigid structure to begin with, then attach the top. That said, I prefer legs through the top joints.

I have one workbench that I return to a lot. It was originally a food prep table-it has a 4 inch thick maple top over a welded 2 inch steel pipe base. It has a lower shelf that now holds a large storage cabinet. The assembly weighs well over 400 lbs. I put a vise on one end of it, dog holes through it, etc. It is absolutely rigid and immobile, if not quite as functional as a conventional woodworker's bench.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

A glue up of edge grain won't move much laterally in either direction (the direction of expansion is up and down since the boards are on their sides), so you don't need to get fancy with attaching the top. Some cleats or angle brackets and screws will do fine. There's minimal stress on the joint.


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## builtinbkyn (Oct 29, 2015)

I understand the thoughts behind a utilitarian bench which could probably be executed more quickly, but building a bench with more traditional joinery will not only provide a solid work surface, it's an exercise in woodworking that will continue to work your skills much like cutting DTs. It doesn't have to be overly complicated or use expensive lumber. I made mine with Douglas Fir and some other materials I had on hand. Once made, you have a good working surface for a long time. Oh and it's a project just for you 



Oh I wanted to add, the floor in my shop is quite uneven too. I use some wedges tacked to the leg bottoms to level it off. Those adjustable legs work, but aren't necessary.


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

Bill,
That's a beautiful table!

I've been looking at some simple workbench plans online. FWW has one that uses an MDF top and metal rods to keep the legs stable. I'm not sure if I want to use an MDF top: wouldn't something like bench dogs under lateral stress weaken the holes? And isn't MDF fairly unhealthy to be drilling into and sanding down? I know it's heavy and flat but would that be a long lasting surface?

I have a bunch of 2×4's that I was going to laminate for a tabletop, and then use 4×4's for the legs. I wanted to cut tenons on top of the 4×4's to go through mortises in the tabletop. I've never created this type of joinery, but I'm willing to try.

I only want the tabletop to be about 6' x 2'.


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## SignWave (Feb 2, 2010)

https://www.woodsmithplans.com/plan/heavy-duty-workbench/
I built a variation of this as my first "real" workbench and I think it works well for someone that is just starting out and wants something sturdy and functional, at a low cost, and not requiring advanced skills. The base is quite rigid on it's own due to the panels between the legs, so it does not depend on the attachment of the top to add rigidity. The plans call for a top that is built up from sheet goods, but I made mine with laminated 2x lumber.

I see the merit in Paul Sellers' workbench as well, but his came along after I built mine.

I also read Christopher Schwarz's book later, which gives me ideas for my next workbench. I think it's a worthwhile read.

BTW, 2' x 6' is a good size. I can see going a bit longer, only if you are working on large pieces, but not any wider.


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

If you aren't ready to tackle chopping mortise and tenon joints, yet, you could make the bench leg to top connection using a laminated joint with 2×4's that would have the same strength and effect as a M&T that is chopped out. The leg would need to be three boards, with the center one being 3-1/2 inches longer than the outside two. Then you build the top with a gap in the lamination to fit the leg. Here's a visual.










For process, glue up the top without the outside two 2×4's on each side. Cut the short pieces that go outside the legs and the center piece to go between the legs and glue those in. Then, with the legs in place, glue on a full length piece on the outside. That piece is not shown in the rendering above.


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## Bluenote38 (May 3, 2017)

> I have a bunch of 2×4 s that I was going to laminate for a tabletop, and then use 4×4 s for the legs. I wanted to cut tenons on top of the 4×4 s to go through mortises in the tabletop. I ve never created this type of joinery, but I m willing to try.
> 
> I only want the tabletop to be about 6 x 2 .
> 
> - JohnnyBoy1981


My latest bench is a 2×4 lam with Cedar 4×4's for the base. I did mortise the legs in to sled feet and mortised them into an upper "sled" that the bench top rests on. Top is two pc 3-1/8" thick 12" wide front section, a 3" gap then a 10" back section 6' long. The top is lagged to the upper "sleds" and bench bolts hold the two lower 2×6 cross pieces tight for lateral stability. Solid, heavy, and cheap - plus it is easy to disassemble and transport. I use shims under the foot sleds to level as needed. A Wilton 10" for a face vise on the left and I built a wagon vise on the right using a 13' shoulder vise screw complete the bench. It all works for me and the mix of hand and power tools I use.

Best of luck in your final decisions


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## PPK (Mar 8, 2016)

> My garage, where I work, has an extremely uneven cement floor. Are there assistant feet or legs that can be used to make it all level, but still keep things from moving around while planing?
> 
> - JohnnyBoy1981


Same story with my garage… easily solved by throwing a shim or two under one foot. It's faster/easier/cheaper than buying leveling hardware, in my opinion. I'd rather nudge a shim in with my toe than get down and twist and lock a screw-type leveler…


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## PPK (Mar 8, 2016)

And shoot, the possibilities are endless when it comes to benches. Search LJ's, and you'll find a lot across the spectrum of sizes and styles. I agree with what the others have said, heavy and solid with a good vise is what you need. I made one a while back, and am really happy with it so far…


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

I'll keep looking around for ideas on design, but I'm still wondering if MDF is a durable enough choice for a tabletop. Doesn't it dent easily? Won't the bench dog holes bore out the MDF with use quickly? Can it be finished?


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

Lots of benches have been made with MDF tops. It will dent, bench dogs won't affect the holes that much but holdfasts would wallow them out quickly. It can be finished with an oil based finish.

For all the downsides, MDF does have some positives for a benchtop, as well. It is very heavy, flat and stable, which are all desirable characteristics for a bench. It also glues well to laminate into layers for a thick top. Before building my current construction lumber bench, I used a wall mounted utility bench. It had a 2×4 frame and the top was two layers of MDF covered with a sacrificial piece of 1/4in tempered hardboard, which is harder and more durable than MDF. That piece was just held in place by the edge boards extending that 1/4in above the MDF to be flush with the hardboard so it was easy to flip over or replace when it got too scarred up.

If your bench is strong, flat and stable, it will be just fine for woodworking.


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## builtinbkyn (Oct 29, 2015)

> I ll keep looking around for ideas on design, but I m still wondering if MDF is a durable enough choice for a tabletop. Doesn t it dent easily? Won t the bench dog holes bore out the MDF with use quickly? Can it be finished?
> 
> - JohnnyBoy1981


This is Rob Cosman's MDF work bench. I watched the video when I was considering my bench build. Popped up in a general search for work benches. He used MDF for the top. It's worth a look even to just get some ideas from it.





View on YouTube


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

This one looks fairly inexpensive and reasonable to build.


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

> This one looks fairly inexpensive and reasonable to build.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I watched this a couple days ago, and it matches the style of bench I was looking to make. I mostly want a good surface and clamping system for hand tools like planes and chisels.


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

Yeah, I like that one a lot. Instead of using 2×10's and ripping them in half, I think I will use 2×4's instead. 3 1/2" thick should be plenty IMO.

I'm just waiting to get a jointer and then I will be ready to get started..


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## rodneywt1180b (May 5, 2017)

The reason people recommend buying the larger boards (2×10,2×12,etc) is because the bigger stuff is generally a better grade of material. Less defects like knots and bark edges to deal with.


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

> The reason people recommend buying the larger boards (2×10,2×12,etc) is because the bigger stuff is generally a better grade of material. Less defects like knots and bark edges to deal with.
> 
> - rodneywt1180b


Thanks! Good to know!


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

I bought a book by Sam Allen called "Making Workbenches". It has good descriptions and whatnot and it has two plans for benches, but even those are fairly elaborate.

I've started laminating some 2×4's I bought, but I don't know if that's a good idea. I have them gluing up face to face, so that when completed the tabletop surface will be the edges of the 2×4's.

Are those at risk for warping from moisture content?

The author of this book advocates stacking 3/4" ply with 1/4" tempered hardwood since it's more stable. I just happen to have 2×4's around.


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

Sorry to bombard you all with questions but with the holidayweekend, I thought it might be prime building/designing time!

1. I'm having trouble finding 4×4's that aren't pressure treated with the exception of cedar. I know decks are built of cedar, but just play devil's advocate, would cedar be a good choice for the legs?

2. I had let my original 2×4's for the table top dry out in my garage on stickers to about 9% MC before I began laminating. I need more 2×4's to finish the top. Since I'm laminating the boards face to face, should I still let them dry out a bit, or does it matter?

3. What's a good way to finish this (if any)? I was going to rub on some boiled linseed oil, but I read that some people wipe paste wax on the end grain to seal out moisture as well.

4. Last question  My Sam Allen book utilizes truss rods to strengthen the base. Can I get those at any hardware store?

Thanks! Sorry for all the questions; you guys and YouTube are teaching me woodworking. I went to a college preparatory high school, so shop wasn't offered. They expected us all to go on and become doctors and lawyers!


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

Cedar is strong enough, but will dent easily. Another option is to laminate some 2×4's together.

For construction lumber, it's better to glue them up right away to help prevent warping as they dry, IMO. That's also what Paul Sellers recommends.

Finish is a personal choice. Some like finish on their bench, orhers prefer an unfinished one. BLO is fine. It's what I used when my bench was first built. Just a coat or two is plenty.

If by truss rods, you mean threaded rod, then most hardwate stores will have them.


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

I second the laminate 2×4's together for the legs. If using 2×4's you can plan the top and legs where you use mortise and tenon to attach the legs without having to actually cut out mortises. I forget which video I was watching that did it that way, but it was also one of the many youtube videos on making easy and somewhat inexpensive work benches.

As for the rods, I don't see the need for them personally, but to each their own.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

> The reason people recommend buying the larger boards (2×10,2×12,etc) is because the bigger stuff is generally a better grade of material. Less defects like knots and bark edges to deal with.
> 
> - rodneywt1180b


As a 30 year contractor/woodworker, I have to disagree crappy lumber comes in all sizes.

I know everyone's talking about benches and simple designs although more impressive to look at I've found a good old sturdy work table with a couple vices connected work best for me. my work table is very simple but sturdy,
It's 4'x8' and is built from kiln dried douglas fir and use 4×4 legs ,2×6 aprons and for the bottom shelf and 2×6 cross members with an 1 1/4" OSB piece of sub flooring for a top all screwed together and then a 1/4" piece of melamine on top. This gives you more space to work and you can drill holes in it for bench dogs if you like, it can also be scaled down if you don't have the room.
Cedar is not as strong and more expensive than kiln dried fir or construction grade southern yellow pine depending where you live.

something like this one found online


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

Jim, I like that one a lot.

JB, if you want to go the 2×4 route, here is an interesting video.


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

As I've continued the lamination of my 2×4's, I noticed that a few possible little gaps exist in between the boards. The glue is already dry so I can't move them. I don't see any light coming through them.

Should I have used more clamps or straighter boards? And will this be a problem for the tabletop?


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

If you have a jointer and had jointed them that would have made them flatter and come together better and perhaps a little more clamp pressure.


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## TaySC (Jun 27, 2017)

I bet if you put a little glue and sawdust in any gaps it will be fine once you hand plane and sand the top.


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

I'm curious if you guys think it might weaken the lamination of the table top?


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Can't tell by the photo, if you can see light all the way through it in a good size area then it might weeken it. if you have a table saw you could cut it apart and glue it again or you could try and drill all the way through it and add threaded rod through it in several places.


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## rodneywt1180b (May 5, 2017)

It doesn't look like it will be a problem to me.


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

Well, I have everything laminated, the glue is dried, and I'm at the part I've been mentally playing through in my head over and over: the planing and jointing.

I have several hand planes, the largest being a #6. I also have a Ryobi powered hand planer as well.

I want to lop off the curvature of the 2×4's on all sides to get it as flat as possible. It looks to be about an 1/8" that might need shaving off. What's the best way to attack this with a plane? I was going to use a straight edge to mark the high spots, then lower those down with my #6 since that's as close to a jointer as I have right now.

Would it be faster to use the powered hand planer to knock off the high spots, then finesse everything together with the manual planers? Or should I just take a belt sander to it? And should I plane diagonally or across the boards?

Thanks,

John


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

I haven't been able to get back to this workbench for awhile.
I got the 2×4's laminated, and have set to work planing, mostly with an electric planer. That's been the fastest way to knock the 'humps' off the sides of the 2×4 that comprise the top:









(I do have a way to connect it to my shop vac, but it was cumbersome, hence the mess).

The gaps I noticed in an earlier post overall look much better in most places:









But there are still a few places where the gaps are maybe 1/16" or so, or maybe part of a knot hole has been exposed:









I don't want to do anymore drastic planing since I still have the other side to do and I want to retain some slab thickness. How can I fill in these seams so that they retain the hardness and flatness I want for the bench top?

I've read that a mixture of wood glue and sawdust will work well. I don't care much about appearances; when done I will probably do one or two coats of BLO and maybe some paste wax on the endgrain.

Thanks!


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

What's a good approach to making my table level across the entire surface? What I've been doing is using a 48" plastic level as a straight edge and #5 and #6 Stanley handplanes to try snd knock down the high spots.

Trouble is, the high spots appear at different points along the tabletop so just running a plane straight down one part isn't working.

I enjoy using my old handplanes, but I've also read suggestions about building a router sled.

What do you all suggest?


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## builtinbkyn (Oct 29, 2015)

Johnny in order to plane the top flat you need to run your plane at approximately 45 degrees to the length of the top. Basically you are going cross grain. Use your longest plane for this. There are plenty of videos on YT illustrating how to go about this.

J has a good one to follow.





View on YouTube


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

I'll check the video out. Thanks!


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

I've been flattening the slab, and one of the planes I've been using is a newer Stanley BU plane. It has a Norris type adjustment, which I've discovered I hate. I made a slight adjustment to the cap which was loose and I think I threw off the iron depth and angle.

Here's four pics of what happened. One board received deep, chipped out gouges that seemed deeper on one side. In one of the pics, you can see that it left a good size ledge between the gouge and the uneffected board next to it.

Why were the other boards unaffected? I used a level to make sure it was staying flat. 




































I think I'm going to have to take the electric planer to it and quit using that BU plane.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Probably grain direction.

I plane perpendicular to the grain to flatten. Never heard of the 45 degree thing until recently.


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

With that deep of a ledge I formed, I'm thinking of using a single pass with an electric planer to do a do-over pass then cleaning up with hand planes again. Maybe I'll try to go 90 degrees to the grain this time.

Can and I should I use the ELECTRIC plane at 90 degrees also?


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Johnny
A low angle plane may help. Planing at an angle may help it's been done for years angle from one side of the bench then the other . the person in the above JAYs video planes from an angle. if you dampen the board you're having trouble with. Unfortunately, when using fir you have these kinds of issues.using a power plane gives you less control and makes for bigger problems quicker for an inexperienced user. 
Not sure if it's been considered but a belt sander might do the trick but it's another tool that can wreck project quickly if you're not very careful.


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

> Johnny
> A low angle plane may help. Planing at an angle may help it s been done for years angle from one side of the bench then the other . the person in the above JAYs video planes from an angle. if you dampen the board you re having trouble with. Unfortunately, when using fir you have these kinds of issues.using a power plane gives you less control and makes for bigger problems quicker for an inexperienced user.
> Not sure if it s been considered but a belt sander might do the trick but it s another tool that can wreck project quickly if you re not very careful.
> 
> - a1jim


Just some points of clarification on your post:

My plane that caused this was based off a No. 62, so I don't know if that's a low angle BU.

Should I wet the surface of this slab before trying to plane it?

Why would one board chip out like this and the others were fine?

I have both a belt sander and an electric sander I can try, but both take off too much material too quickly for my liking.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I would say yes you have a low angle plane, Just dampen the area of the board giving trouble and see if it helps.
The one board may have wild grain or just grain running the opposite direction of your other boards.If you don't feel comfortable using a belt sander then don't use it because you could cause more damage than you have now.
If you get to the point you decide to use the belt sander take motions like an airplane landing and taking off with light landing and long sweeps with short times of touch down, not short concentrated sanding. as you get used to using a belt sander you will learn how much you can slow down and shorten your stroke.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

notice in this video the person does not leave the sander in one place for very long.


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

One thing I didn't even consider that really screwed me was that I didn't pay attention to grain direction on the edges of the 2×4's when I laminated them. It's made hand planing more difficult than it should be. That and the knots from using cheap wood!

I'll watch that video when I'm not at work.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

It takes time for each woodworker to learn how to do things, then when you get old you have to learn all over again the things you learned years ago but have forgoten. LOL


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

How flat is flat when it comes to a workbench? I run a level its edge and there are a few very thin spots where there is a bit of light shining through, but at the largest maybe a few are 1/32" between the slab and the level.

I want to make sure that when I attach the legs they will be as straight as possible.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

People go nuts flattening workbenches. Don't fall for that. You have it plenty flat.


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

> People go nuts flattening workbenches. Don t fall for that. You have it plenty flat.
> 
> - jonah


Good. Thanks. I'm going to do a little sanding with an 80 grit ROS to keep some roughness to the surface. Then I'll flip the slab and do it all again!


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

I wouldn't bother sanding, honestly. You want to keep the surface rough so it'll grip work. Freshly planed is perfect IMO.


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## ksSlim (Jun 27, 2010)

What Rick said


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

I've been thinking about how to create dog holes, probably 3/4" in diameter. Is there a good way to do this? I have a plunge router but it won't go all the way through the table. I think a drill would be difficult to keep straight.

My other thought would be a "flush mounted fold down stop like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N5M57LC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_2Gs-zbYEJTT99

Any ideas?


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## rodneywt1180b (May 5, 2017)

They sell drill guides that you can use. I bought one when I made my workbench 20 years or so ago. This will show you what I mean.
https://www.google.com/search?q=drill+guide&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwif6OPfpZzXAhUPymMKHVLSDMAQsAQIkgI&biw=1024&bih=635#imgrc=yWaBfrLY1HcvtM:
Rodney


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

Don't overthink it. Just use a decent 3/4" spade or auger bit. Be sure to back the top up with a piece of scrap to eliminate tear out when you punch through. Also drill from the top so any tear out is hidden underneath.


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## NoSpace (Jan 2, 2015)

I don't do things the normal way I know, but for another data point to consider, here is mine:










Yeah, I probably have the smallest workbench on the forum, but here's the thing: At my previous house, while I had very little space, the previous owner had put in a huge work bench that mounted to the wall. It was made with 2×4s and a big 8'x 2.5' sheet of 3/4" plywood for the top. I started out using that. Then, once I got a table saw, it initially just sat on the ground (contractor saw) and I built an outfeed and infeed table for it. Well, suddenly, I found myself using my big bench less and less, and building my stuff on the crappy out-in-feed tables I'd made! Why? (drumroll) Because I couldn't clamp anything to the big table! So when I made that little worktable/router table, I knew what I wanted, 360 degrees of clamping and a lot of solid wood so it's relatively heavy for its size. I built a much simper table exactly the same height to connect to the first for more surface area if I need it. One of my next projects is to build a Russian-doll set of small work tables.

If I were to ever have the room for a big table I can stand at, I'd model it after something like this, to avoid the problem of securing projects properly:

https://www.toolnut.com/festool-495465-mft-3-kapex-multifunction-table.html?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI34nT8MCc1wIVA2p-Ch2YIgzwEAQYBSABEgJejfD_BwE


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

So then my next question would be how to align and space the dog holes. I'm going to place this vise:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0001LQY4E/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1509565197&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=irwin+woodworker%27s+vise

on the longest side of my bench, so the dog holes will traverse approximately 2 feet, clamping material the width of the bench.. If they're 3/4" in diameter, how far should I space these holes?

OR

could I use that same vise on the tail instead so that I can secure pieces that are about 6 feet long? It seems like that vice might be a bit light weight to secure something that length.


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## rodneywt1180b (May 5, 2017)

You're building what is shaping up to be a pretty nice bench. I don't have experience with that particular vise but it seems a little small/light duty. You can probably get by with it but it might be worth looking into a bigger, sturdier one, possibly used or vintage to help keep the costs down. Quick release is also a nice feature to have.
As far as hole placement goes, I'm not an expert but I would guess about half the vise's opening capacity seems about right. That way there's always a hole where you need it. My vise opens about a foot and I spaced the holes at 6". It's worked well for me.


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

> The only woodworking procedure that *doesn t* benefit greatly from the workpiece being securely immobilized is when you re throwing it across the room in disgust.
> 
> - StephenO


or into the firepit


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

That vise doesn't have a pop-up dog or anything like that, so it'll be much more of a pain to clamp something using it. It's also not quick release, so keep that in mind.

If you have the funds, I'd look at something with a built in dog and quick release, but that's obviously going to be more money.

If you're absolutely set on that vise, I'd make the dog holes pretty close together so you don't have to crank the vise twenty times to clamp a piece.


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

> If you have the funds, I d look at something with a built in dog and quick release, but that s obviously going to be more money.
> 
> If you re absolutely set on that vise, I d make the dog holes pretty close together so you don t have to crank the vise twenty times to clamp a piece.
> 
> - jonah


I'm kind of stuck with this vise since I can't return it to Lowe's. No box, and I bought it months ago. I already own a non-woodworking vise too and don't require a third.

I knew this vise would be limiting: it only opens 4.5" wide, which will be further limited when I place in hardwood pads thick enough to accept a 3/4" dog hole.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

I'd probably attach that vise to the face of the bench, and get something quick release for the end.

You don't want you bench top to be swiss cheese, but you're going to need a good number of holes.


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

I wanted a vise to help make dovetails, hence the smaller vise. But I also want to do hand planing and eventually make larger projects. Should I get a larger tail vise with dog holes on one side of the bench to plane long pieces, then keep the smaller vise on the opposite end and sid of the table for joinery and not put in and dog holes for that?


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

That's definitely an idea. If you have the clearance, go for it. I suspect that when you have a quick release vise, you'll quickly stop using the non-quick-release one.


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

For planing faces, you don't need a vise at all. A planing stop will handle most of the jobs and adding a couple holdfasts and a batten can take you the rest of the way. Check out this video for a demonstration. The only time I use a vise when planing is to joint edges and that is the face vise. The end vise got removed from my bench after it was never used for over a year.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

I frequently use my vise when planing or scraping because I often switch directions and don't want to have to rotate the board against a stop. To each his own.


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

I'm in need of further guidance on my bench. I'm frustrated by it and thinking of starting over. I have a 6'x2' slab of laminated 2×4s. I intended to make a wood bench like" in this video": 




The top is reasonably flat at this point, but with the cold weather I can't glue and laminate the pieces for the legs and stretchers like he does in the video.

I was thinking of tweaking it a bit with the base and legs being more like this instead, perhaps using 4×4s at the corners:










I want to use GRK structural screws and skip the glue.

The slab is pretty heavy. Do you think the structural screws and that 'ladder frame' base in the pic will support it? Supposedly the screws are designed to replace lag screws in wooden decks.

I feel like I bit off more than I can chew with this bench. I'm wishing I'd started simpler and maybe used some stacked plywood for the top…


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

How will you join the short stretchers to the legs?

There's no reason not to at least glue up the end assemblies, then bolt the long stretchers on. Screws can work too, but my preference would be a more permanent solution like beefy bolts.


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## Sarit (Oct 21, 2009)

You don't need those center braces. Your top and apron are more than enough to prevent sagging in the middle.
The base needs to be highly resistant to racking. You can get away with screws w/o glue. If you experience some racking, you can reinforce the joints with plywood gussets to stiffen them up.

You probably also want some mounting solution that accounts for wood expansion/contraction in the top. One option would be to remove the 25" top aprons and extend the 2×4 leg so it could be mortised into the top.


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

> You probably also want some mounting solution that accounts for wood expansion/contraction in the top. One option would be to remove the 25" top aprons and extend the 2×4 leg so it could be mortised into the top.
> 
> - Sarit


The original plans for the bench seen on the video are for the legs being 3 2×4s laminated, then one end of each being cut to a sort of lap joint which is then mortised through the table top. I was going to maybe use cedar 4×4s instead.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

A observation about the Irwin woodworker's vise that you bought…
This vise appears to be designed to be added to a top that is about 2" thick. Measure the distance from the top vise down to the screw or the mounting holes. That appears to be less than the 4" thickness of your top which means it will either be well below the top of the table or you'll have to cut a recess into the bottom end of your top to mount it flush. If the top is not flush, this will make the addition of a dogs in the face pads less secure because the 2 holes for securing the face pads are so high.

Even if you do use this vice temporarily until you can afford a better one, you might want to look around at better ones to see what you will eventually want to mount and plan the dog holes you want to drill accordingly.

Just an observation that might not have occurred to you yet.


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

Those are good points. I mounted the vice temporarily to the slab to use a No. 7 to joint the wood for the legs. Here's a pic of that:


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## rodneywt1180b (May 5, 2017)

I wouldn't have an apron around the top. It will greatly interfere with your ability to clamp things to the top.
Also lose the center supports. They'll be in the way too.

Can you bring the legs in the house while they're drying? Or possibly a small heater in the shop? Otherwise, it takes longer but as long as it isn't actually freezing the glue will still set.

The laminated 2×4 legs are ok. Can you drill and chisel mortises for the legs to fit into? Another idea would be to cut notches in the existing edges and make the top 2 2×4s wider to form the mortises. Turn the legs so they're flush with the outer edges. That way you can clamp boards to them for edge joining. Think 4 legs mortised into the top and keep the bottom skirt. You can put a shelf on it for additional storage.

Make the vise's face boards flush with the top of the bench and drill a hole in the top of the one on the moving jaw. Drill clear through if you can so sawdust and chips won't get stuck in it. You can put a removable wooden peg in it for a dog. I like wooden dogs better anyway. No fear of damaging your plane if you hit one.

EDIT: When you permanently mount your vise inset it so the replaceable wooden jaw is flush with the edge of the bench too. It will be easier to clamp longer boards for edge jointing that way.

If you're too frustrated do something else for a while until you're ready to tackle it again. You're doing well so far.


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

> I wouldn t have an apron around the top. It will greatly interfere with your ability to clamp things to the top.
> Also lose the center supports. They ll be in the way too.
> 
> Can you bring the legs in the house while they re drying? Or possibly a small heater in the shop? Otherwise, it takes longer but as long as it isn t actually freezing the glue will still set.
> ...


Thanks man! I can laminate the 2 bys in my basement. I might need to make a tablesaw jig to taper the 2 bys; they're pretty knotty and using my No. 7 takes awhile. The final glue up of the top to the bottom may need to wait until temps rise.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

> Thanks man! I can laminate the 2 bys in my basement. I might need to make a tablesaw jig to taper the 2 bys; they re pretty knotty and using my No. 7 takes awhile. The final glue up of the top to the bottom may need to wait until temps rise.
> 
> - JohnnyBoy1981


Taper?


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

> Taper?
> 
> - Lazyman


Wrong choice of words. I meant joint. That way I can remove the curved edges of the 2×4's and have them glue up with flat sides.


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

I am mounting a 20lbs Yost face vise to my my bench slab which is made of laminated 2×4's. I'm using 5/16" lag screws and washers to do so per manufacturer instructions. I used an impact driver, but when I tried to tighten the lags they all of a sudden 'gave' and now spin freely in their holes (I did drill a shank sized pilot for them).

I'm assuming that I overtightened with the driver and tore up the wood the screws had bitten in to.

I know pine is a soft wood, so for this application is it better to just tighten them snuggly with a ratchet instead?


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

You should drive them with a ratchet or a wrench. You likely overtorqued them and stripped the holes. You'll have to reposition it.


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## JohnnyBoy1981 (Mar 15, 2017)

I figured that's what happened, but I wanted confirmation. Thanks!


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## rodneywt1180b (May 5, 2017)

I used through bolts on mine. Not as pretty but they're not going to strip either.


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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

It's actually quite easy to overtorque bolts or screws in wood with impact drivers. Often I'd forgo the impact driver and use a cordless drill strictly to avoid that type of situation.

It's also why I got rid of my 18V tools and picked up a set of Bosch 12V. If I need more power than the 12V tools provide, I'll use a corded drill. In everyday use, having more limited torque out of the impact driver (and being able to adjust it to a lower setting, which mine can do) is useful for me.


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## rbrjr1 (Nov 2, 2017)

subscribed.


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