# Polyshades yuck, what now?



## Tammy80 (Aug 1, 2014)

So this being my first wood 'staining' project, I should not have looked to the kid in the stain department at one of the 'big box' stores for guidance. Ah ha, lesson that I should have already known.. learned! Now I am hoping that someone who really DOES know can help me with the mess I have gotten myself into. (Sigh!)

I purchased a couple of the inexpensive interior doors (I don't know what wood they are but I"m sure someone here will) and went with Minwax Polyshades because to a beginner it seemed to make sense to do something in one shot, stain and polyurethane in one. Now that I tried that, see the results, and have read on forums here I see that was maybe not a good choice.

Thanks for not criticizing me, I'm at the very start of the learning curve and see now I went about it backwards.

Hopefully I have posted the pictures correctly and you will be able to see the blotchiness and tell me what step to take next.




























I put it on with a Minwax stain brush and did not wipe it off. The stuff dried so fast it was about impossible to get my brush back in the can and back to the door without what I had just applied getting sticky. Despite that it all looked pretty good when I got done, I was happy.. until it all dried.. blotchy. Ugh, now what?


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## Cricket (Jan 15, 2014)

I fixed the image links for you.


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## dczward (May 23, 2011)

Hey Tammy, from the pics, it doesn't look too bad. The frame looks like some sort of red oak over particle board, but the door itself could be… maybe a maple veneer, maybe cherry? hard for me to tell. But, as for the "lesson", the "stain and finish in one" products sell to people who a) are intimidated by the process, and b) buy into the promise of an easy one shot solution. When I started out, I went the same route, and got s0-so results at best. I've learned that, regardless of which of the zillions of approaches you take with staining/finishing, one rule applies: lots of light/thin coats, and sand in between (for the finish). It is more time consuming, but actually easier: you can sort of correct any errors as you go along, and stop when you're satisfied. So, for next time, get a stain that you like, and apply that. Then when its done/cured/dry, apply a finish in several/many thin coats, and sand lightly in between. Yes, it could take days or weeks, but the reward is that it looks great.

Coloring wood or finishing just takes practice, and you have to try a bunch of things before you get a regimen that you like. What got me on the right path, was actually this little video from the Wood Whisperer called "Simple Varnish Finish". http://www.twwstore.com/product/simple-varnish-finish . Or, for free, read this article with some good references & links… http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/fool-proof-finish/

That should send you in the right direction. Good luck.

-Douglas


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I can not agree more with Douglas. There is no simple quick way to learn to finish. It will take time, practice, success and failures. Even for those who have done a lot of it and become reasonably good at it, we still run into problems at times with a piece of wood that is just a real pain.

Stay with it, but perhaps start with something small and do some practice runs on small pieces of wood.

Good Luck


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Simple, quick, and cheap descriptors about finishing should be outlawed.
No such products that I know.
Second…................kids in the paint dept. at a borg know nothing except where stuff is (sometimes).
Bill


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## TheWoodenOyster (Feb 6, 2013)

Honestly, that looks much better that I would have expected. At this point, your only option is to sand that finish off, which honestly would be miserable, incredibly time consuming, and may not even really work. That said, I would bite the bullet on this one and either buy new doors and redo the project or just put them in and consider them a learning experience. Once you do a couple projects, you will also realize that nobody else notices all the mistakes that you do. Other folks might think these doors look just fine. I would just leave them be and consider it a learning experience. Stripping and sanding finish off is really not fun. Really really not fun.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

We do a lot of staining with awesome success. We do this for a living. Our process has to be effective, efficient and results oriented or we go hungry.

So since we have made enough money on using this Confidential trade secret, I will go ahead and let u in on the secret. Just promise not to tell anyone. Fellow tradesman might not be happy if our trade secrets were revealed 

The big trade secret is the proper usage of conditioner to pre treat hard to stain material. But as I am writing this, I am thinking what you stained amounts to being basic plywood. With plywood it is easy. Using a wiping stain, we just spray the sheet with stain and wipe back the excess immediately. We do this quickly and do not let the stain soak in too much. Now that I think about it we do not use conditioner on plywood.

I actually have one more personal secret, but once again don't tell anyone. My wife does all the finish work in our shop and she is our Top trade secret so really, what in the world do I know about finish work… Maybe she should post, but she probably will not since I need her in the shop applying finish to a set of cabinet doors. 

But seriously, stay away from polyshades, go to a oil based wiping stain, we prefer ML Cambell. As Mr. Miagi would say, "spray on, wipe off". Simple as that.

when u are ready to tackle staining hardwoods let me know I will help u more with the idea of conditioners, sanding process, etc…


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## teejk (Jan 19, 2011)

Oyster…I think I saw something somewhere that the best solvent for MinWax products was MinWax! If the OP like the color (way too much orange for my taste but personal preferences are what they are) then get a can of straight MinWax stain and see what happens. That is likely a hollow core door and is not going to like heavy sanding veneers are pretty thin). If that doesn't work then I'd try a light 220 grit or higher sandpaper to knock the varnish off and then try again. I think darker brown might work. The orange is already imbedded in the wood but a darker shade might work over top.


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## fge (Sep 8, 2008)

Now that I am on my full size computer, I am looking at your pictures and the blotch I see is not that bad. There is some uneven color but it is not that bad. Sanding those doors back is not likely a good idea. If they were in fact a cheaper door then just buying a new door and starting over would be better than sanding back. I am not certain that if you start over that you will have any real superior result.

One other trade secret is the usage of sample pieces before doing your actual project, so that you can somewhat predict your results on the actual project.

All in all, I think the doors look decent in your pics.


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## JollyGreen67 (Nov 1, 2010)

Polyshades stuff is garbage!


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## exelectrician (Oct 3, 2011)

In my humble opinion the blotchiness is due to uneven sanding (personal experience) stain will 'take ' more darkly in slightly less sanded parts and less darkly in well sanded areas. From what I see in your photo is exactly what I have in my shop right now My ROS left sanded in arc areas and slightly less well sanded areas hence the sweeps of less color.
As I said just my humble opinion.


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## mprzybylski (Nov 21, 2011)

I agree with thee others that it's actually not bad at all. I think it even looks kind of cool to be honest, almost like there is some curliness going on in an otherwise bland "wood". I wouldn't be too upset about it…


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## mantwi (Mar 17, 2013)

I believe you have only applied one coat and if that's the case a light sanding with 400 grit wet dry paper between at least two more coats should even out the color substantially and give you a passable end product. I don't know of any finish that does the job with one coat and all of them leave a lot to be desired until you reach the final couple of applications. I wouldn't sand off the finish that's already on the doors, way too time consuming and really an unnecessary task. After you scuff sand the first coat the surface will be adequately sealed and will begin to look better with the second coat. If the color isn't uniform at this point do your second light sanding and get a can of stain and of the appropriate color and use it to shade in the light areas until you have a uniform tone. After the stain has dried for a day float the final coat of finish over it, the last coat will seal the stain into the finish. Like the guy said above get some scraps of the same material and practice on them so you understand what the product will do and how to get the most out of it. God bless.


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## skatefriday (May 5, 2014)

I have a door that was stained and was blotchy
at the start, but has mellowed as time has gone by. Either
it will mellow, or your eyes will be come adjusted/less critical
over time.

Note that I didn't stain the door in question and my contractor
applied conditioner prior to stain and did not use polyshades.

That said, I'm still kind of new at this and found the minwax
stains to be ok, but the minwax california legal poly to be a problem.
I switched to Varathane (a rustoleum product I think) and 
am getting much better results. However it still seems like it's
going to come out like crap until the third coat or so.


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## Tammy80 (Aug 1, 2014)

You guys (or gals) are awesome! I'm not sure this point what I will do, but maybe like some of you said it doesn't look as bad as I think and it will get better with time. (It's not as orange looking in real life as it looks in the pictures teejk.)

Since I have only done one side of the door (unfortunately the side that will be more visible, the hallway side), and I have another door to do after this one, could you advise me what I should use and how I should do the other side?

See.. lol, I'm learning.. asking people who know before I jump in this time!

Thanks so much to all of you for your detailed and great explanations and ideas!!


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## Yonak (Mar 27, 2014)

*In Defense of Polyshades*



> But, as for the "lesson", the "stain and finish in one" products sell to people who a) are intimidated by the process, and b) buy into the promise of an easy one shot solution.
> - Douglas





> Polyshades stuff is garbage!
> - Jimbo4


While for most applications Polyshades is unworkable and leaves inferior results, I believe there is a narrow band of applications where Polyshades is usable, even preferred.

What I'm thinking of is a production application where speed is desired. It covers two finishing steps in one and, as Tammy says, it dries quickly.

If you can deftly spray on the finish so that it covers evenly and yet doesn't pool or sag (this takes practice and attentiveness) it can yield good results for non-"fine woodworking" applications, and saves valuable shop time.

I use it for a job regularly and have come to find it indispensible. Clearly it is not for novices or for one-off projects, although it was originally designed that way.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Tammy, I agree with others that the stain is now in the door and the only fix could be to add another stain over it. This would almost certainly make it darker and, if that's unacceptable, you should start over with another door.

If a darker color is OK, you may be able to remove the polyurethane, getting the surface to where you can over-stain, with a solvent, such as scrubbing with mineral spirits or even a paint stripper. Then use a stain color of your choice and, when completely dry, top with polyurethane using the prescribed methods.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

Thanks for reminding me why I avoid staining whenever possible. I guess I don't buy into the idea that one species of wood should be made to look like another, something it isn't. I may have developed this bias because my dad always made stuff out of ponderosa pine (all he could afford), and tried to make it look like walnut. Which it never did.


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## jtm (Dec 2, 2013)

If this is Polyshades, that is more a toner than a stain (which means the color is kept more on the surface of the wood rather than absorbed into it).

You should be able to add a second coat, focusing more on the lighter areas. That will darken them up. Then put one final coat on everything to even it all out.


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## Fettler (Dec 6, 2012)

Strip it (find the heaviest can of stripper in the box store which liekly has methyl-ethly chloride). Sand it (120/220). And use a shellac base coat. Then re-apply the stain.

Tanins/oils in the wood cause cause the streaking.


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## skatefriday (May 5, 2014)

Methylene Chloride requires a supplied air respirator.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0414.html

While people do use this stuff a regular organic
vapor cartridge is not sufficient for complete
protection.

I'd just buy a new door.


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## exelectrician (Oct 3, 2011)

@skatefriday, thanks for the info on how aggressive Methyl Chloride is .. 
At least to casual woodworks like me who usually ignore the fine print as long as the main blurb in big lettering seems to satisfy my needs of the moment. Reading this info was quite scary, so yeah, point taken.


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## timbertailor (Jul 2, 2014)

> In my humble opinion the blotchiness is due to uneven sanding (personal experience) stain will take more darkly in slightly less sanded parts and less darkly in well sanded areas. From what I see in your photo is exactly what I have in my shop right now My ROS left sanded in arc areas and slightly less well sanded areas hence the sweeps of less color.
> As I said just my humble opinion.
> 
> - exelectrician


I have to agree. I have used PolyShades on several projects and I hate to see it get bashed because someone did not seal the wood before staining, did not sand\prep the wood surface properly, tried to apply to much at one time because the unsanded areas sucked up the poly faster, etc.

Its all in the prep. Staining\Sealing is the easy part.

P.S. I have seen the quality of wood used on some of these doors and I would be afraid to sand through the veneer before I got a surface that was able to give a good finish.


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## skatefriday (May 5, 2014)

exelectrician, what will really get you is when you look at the
drawing of an APF (Assigned Protection Factor) 10,000 respirator.

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/3352-APF-respirators.html

Scroll down just a bit.

We all have one of those sitting around the garage. Right?


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## exelectrician (Oct 3, 2011)

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/3352-APF-respirators.html

More information that really makes you think, if my two canister respirator is rated APF = 10 
And a full independent (rescue) respirator is rated APF = 10 000

The difference between these two is astounding (10 versus 10 000 ) ???


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## JollyGreen67 (Nov 1, 2010)

Polyshades is nothing but a top coat with colorant added. The colorant does not enter/soak into the wood, as a stain would.


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## pauljuilleret (Nov 16, 2013)

That cocktail stuff where they mix stain and polly together is a good way for the manufacturer to get rid of excess empty cans I never did like the stuff what you have shown doesn't look that bad to me but I can't see it up close like others have said seal it with a conditioner if it's a soft wood, then stain it and then apply a top coat of your choice that is how I do it in my shop. good luck with your project it's a learning curve we have all went through at one time or another.


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## HossMan (Mar 21, 2008)

The majority of inexpensive interior doors are Lauan (Philippine mahogany). They are notorious for being a tough staining project: the veneer is inexpensive for a reason. They can look good after staining and finishing: or they can look mediocre.
All that is to say, please don't be too hard on yourself that this bit of staining didn't turn out as you hoped. Part of the problem may well have been the wood itself, as evidenced by the quick tackiness of the finish - the veneer was likely very thirsty.
As I look at the pics, I agree with some others: it doesn't look as bad as one might think (but you're seeing them in person. A big difference, I know…)
Perhaps some judicious sanding and a fresh topcoat will even out some of the rough spots.
Remember Prime Rule #1 - you'll always be your own toughest critic. Nobody else will come to your house and say, "gee…..that stain job really sucks." 
Always forward!


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

Definitely luan, It probably needs a pre stain conditioner on it to prevent blotchiness. Gel stains are also good for luan.

Be careful sanding because you can sand right through the veneer really quickly. A cabinet scraper would be my choice here.

Oh and personally I never liked using a brush for stain, a rag always seemed to offer better control and a more even application.


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## shawnmasterson (Jan 24, 2013)

I just want to say polyshades work fine from a sprayer.


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## skatefriday (May 5, 2014)

"Nobody else will come to your house and say, "gee…..that stain job really sucks."

I need to print that out and post it in my workshop!


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## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

Looks good to me!the blotches might be fixed by sanding it first so the stain gets in more even.thats to late to do but it looks fine.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

I'm partial to danish oil and a foam brush. Temperature plays a big part in how wood takes stain. veneers are tricky to stain versus lumber. Also if one's not careful you can sand right thru these paper thin veneers. For finishing I've found like everyone several thin coats and a very light sanding. When I get down to the last 3 or four coats I have the wife scrounge me some of pantyhose. Sounds perverted I know, but folded into a square and sometimes wrappped around a square piece of polyester fabric they can be used almost like a squeege with no lint. When used with really thin finish you can get mirror finish and they work great over a long flat surface like your doors.


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## Tammy80 (Aug 1, 2014)

Thank so much everyone! I'm still mulling over what I will do, but I may try sanding it lightly and putting another coat of the Ployshades on as it is still a lighter than I would like although not bad. Figure it won't hurt anything to see what that does to it. 
And thanks Hossman, it really doesn't look that bad, and it's not like it's going in a million dollar house, obviously I would have bought better doors and had someone else finish them if it was! And I am my own worst critic… or so I've been told. 



> The majority of inexpensive interior doors are Lauan (Philippine mahogany). They are notorious for being a tough staining project: the veneer is inexpensive for a reason. They can look good after staining and finishing: or they can look mediocre.
> All that is to say, please don t be too hard on yourself that this bit of staining didn t turn out as you hoped. Part of the problem may well have been the wood itself, as evidenced by the quick tackiness of the finish - the veneer was likely very thirsty.
> As I look at the pics, I agree with some others: it doesn t look as bad as one might think (but you re seeing them in person. A big difference, I know…)
> Perhaps some judicious sanding and a fresh topcoat will even out some of the rough spots.
> ...


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## upchuck (Nov 3, 2013)

Tammy80-
"Ugh, now what?" 
Cold beer. Applied internally. Repeat.
chuck


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## Tammy80 (Aug 1, 2014)

Lol, good one!!!


> Tammy80-
> "Ugh, now what?"
> Cold beer. Applied internally. Repeat.
> chuck
> ...


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## patrad (Jan 27, 2012)

If it's ply you may sand through the veneer, be careful and maybe just do a test spot near the bottom. To prevent on the other door I'd use a min-wax pre-stain conditioner they make or sealcoat 50/50 with denatured alcohol as a conditioner


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## BinghamtonEd (Nov 30, 2011)

I have a quart of Polyshades Bombay Mahogany stain sitting under my bench that I've used 3 square feet of. I bought it when I first started out woodworking, thinking I could use it to stain a birch plywood case. I took a 1'x3' piece of plywood and put strips of tape to separate it into 3 sections. I applied no sealer to the first section, 1 coat of a 1# cut of shellac to the second, and 2 coats to the 3rd. Everything was sanded with a sanding block. The unsealed part had the depth of color I wanted, but was blotchy. The second part wasn't as blotchy, but wasn't dark enough, and the 3rd part had no blotching but was way too light. I ran into a problem that if I applied the stain and then wiped it off, it didn't darken enough, but if I let the stain dry, it built up too much and obscured the grain. Long story short, I don't like it on plywood.

I did test it on some red oak scrap, without sealer, and wiped off, and it worked better, but that can is destined for the dump (besides, it's like 4 years old), if I ever actually clean out my bench. When it comes to stains, I prefer General Finishes, followed by their Arm-R-Seal, which is easy to wipe on.

I do agree with the others that it does not look bad. If you're really not happy with it, for the cost of a hollow core lauan-skinned door (around $30?) I would buy one and tape it into a bunch of different sections, and experiment with it. Between the two sides you could try at least a dozen different methods.


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