# An Answer for you J.........



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

*
" What is the difference between a' peaceful Muslim' and an 'evil radical Muslim "*
Well I am surprised at your lack of of knowledge on this subject , why are you asking me ? The 700,000 + Arab Americans and the 500,000 Iranian Americans ( just for starters) that live in southern California ,as you do ,may be able
to help you with that question . I will give you a link you can check out . Please contact them . I'm sure they will "be happy to answer your questions , better than I can . Islamic Center of Southern California I'm sure the views you express about them here on LJ's would be of great interest to them . Glad i Could be of help .


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

I am not sure who J…..is but he must know Muslims are peaceful.

Here this proves it.

From the Hadith:

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."


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## Xaromir (Jun 4, 2011)

I decided to edit this, because there are no replies to this so far, and i feel i was to rough and gone against my own believes but what i wanted to say is the following:

Imagine if everyone would keep their faith to themselves. No more people protesting at funeral, and no more oh so aggressive Muslims, no more stupid banners that say that people are going to hell for eating fruit loops instead of captain crunch, no more stupid cartoons, and no more terrorizing, raping and murdering in the name of god. Doesn't that sound wonderful? AND NO MORE POINTLESS QUOTING OF RELIGIOUS TEXTS THAT YOU'VE NEVER READ - EVER!

I am not a Muslim nor am i Christian, or a Jew, but i'm offended by how egoistic (in this case Scott) treat other people's believes, and how they play with it trying to make a point in the most selfish way possible, about and against a thing they don't understand. But everyone can do that. Look at me go:

Zechariah 14:1-2
King James Version (KJV)
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the *women ravished*; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah+14%3A1-2&version=KJV

That's plundering and rape for instance. The Bible advocates a lot of rape and also things like genocide and murder or human sacrifice. Stop it please - thank you!

PS: Why was this in my mailbox?


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## JollyGreen67 (Nov 1, 2010)

ALL religeons are evil.


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Your turn.


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## Xaromir (Jun 4, 2011)

I HEAVILY agree with you Jim, but people keep having them, and as long that is so, we have to deal with it i'm afraid.


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## Xaromir (Jun 4, 2011)

Ok Scott, you don't get my point so i lay it out for you:
You are an ASSHOLE for quoting something you never even bothered to inform yourself about aside from the crap people that think alike told you. This is stupid and childish behavior and you should do yourself a big favor and STOP doing this. You are the biggest disturbance of the peace around RIGHT NOW, you are the most aggressive, the biggest fundamentalist and hate preacher IN THIS DISCUSSION.

YOU TRY TO CONVINCE ME TO HATE SOMETHING I WOULD BE HAPPY IF I WOULDN'T HAVE TO HEAR ABOUT IT! 
SHAME ON YOU FOR SPREADING HATE!

Let's not provoke Godwin's law, please, this is ugly.


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)




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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

Let's look at Muslim respect for women.

From the Hadith

Ishaq 593 - "'Women are plentiful, and you can easily change one for another.'"


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Scott - Try this.


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

I am glad you know how to use google chuck. Very useful


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Thank you.


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## ClintSearl (Dec 8, 2011)

I guess Xaromir isn't aware of the tens of thousands of non-Muslims murdered, raped, enslaved, and otherwise insulted by **************************************** in the name of evil Islam over decades. And it continues daily. Maybe Xaromir is a ***********************************, too.


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## Xaromir (Jun 4, 2011)

This doesn't make much sense, not even on a cynical level. ***********************************? Seriously? Nope i'm afraid you are wrong. But have another shot please, i'm curious about what else you can come up with. I tell you once you hit the nail. (Though i'm afraid we have to wait very long for that)


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## vipond33 (Jul 25, 2011)

Godwin's law? Love it. Reductio ad Hitlerum


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)




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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

i dont need to talk with em as there Muslims i dont like,i have read the Holy Quran its a easy read.ive read and studyed the Holy Biible too, in four different languages as it wasnt wrote in english for hundred of years there are a Christians i dont like either and both can have there religion .i dont need no part of it.there are also Muslims i like and a lot of Christian i like too.we have talked bible a lot and one thing we all agree on is evil has many faces and can put on a very religious face.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Don't forget about Corollary 13.2.5 of Goodwin's Law:
As an Internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Dove bars approaches one.


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## Viktor (Jan 15, 2009)

Funny how only religious zealots unfamiliar with the Bible usually initiate this kind of quote contests. Not because they are unaware that calls for atrocities and genocide against non believers could be found in Christian holy texts in spades, but because they foolishly believe that quoting centuries old works of fiction makes an argument.

And just to prove Goodwin's law once again: Bible and Torah were Hitler's preferred literary sources in making the case against the Jews.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

It is just a small step from Dove bars to dovetails. I admit my ignorance here. Do the holy texts agree on whether the pins or tails should be cut first?


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

All this religion controversy would be solved if we knew what religion Adam was, similarly, was he a democrat or republican? We shall never know.


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## Viktor (Jan 15, 2009)

Stop this ice-cream bickering! Jesus liked vanilla and Mohammed liked chocolate. Big deal! What unites us is that we are all humans and all like ice-cream. (except spiders, I hate spiders)


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

@ Rex i think he was with the green party ,


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

@ChuckV every body knows a good religious person dose their tails first


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## AKSteve (Feb 4, 2012)

Hey Roger everytime I see your signature

Always look on the Brighter side of life

it makes me laugh.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

*Victor *-

So, I guess this is not what you look for in your ice cream:










*eddie *-

I think I'm in trouble.


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## ClintSearl (Dec 8, 2011)

Instead of offering any counter to assertions of documented Islamic savagery, Xaromir responds with puerile ad hominems.


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

ChuckV dose it come in strawberry with whip cream and a cherry on top


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Yes indeedy!


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## IrreverentJack (Aug 13, 2010)

More puerile to respond with M&M's.


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

A Muslim and Christian wood worker


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

AKSteve: It's cool isn't it. 

*Honest Mistake*
I told her she had three beautiful children. My mistake. She didn't have to get all pissed off and threaten me with a bomb. It was an honest mistake.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

I hope you are not saying that Superman isn't real!


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

this is making me mad IrreverentJack wheres the purple M&M s


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

Rex you aint right


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

Rex and Steve you two are ok with me .who ever said God dont have a sense of humor aint seen you two lol


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

ChuckV you know superman aint real its just a funny book, get real ,batman man is the real thing but superman may be real he was in a movie


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

eddie,

After consulting my Ouija board and my Magic 8 Ball, I am confident that Superman is real


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## IrreverentJack (Aug 13, 2010)

Sorry. Response - add purple M&M's.


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## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Wow , they must have canceled the Klan meeting because I see some of Joe Lyddon's lap dogs had the time to drop by . Hood heads using '****************************************' as a put down ; now that's funny . You guys are more jerk-offs than a Jamaican chicken .


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

I don't have anything but contempt for the Klan. I don't post anything but humor at any of Joe's political stuff.
I guess what us jokers are trying to say is; Why start a thread that is guaranteed to start controversy and arguments, especially over religion, which is a personal choice.
All I can say about religions is that ALL of them need to be updated to refer to living in OUR time, quoting hand me down passages from hundreds or thousands of years ago is prone to gross errors.
Some of us have moved on and learned to tolerate other people's views and respect them.


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## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Well, Rex I started this thread to respond to an LJ who has me blocked , and answer a question that he proffered (now deleeted ). I don't remember inviting anyone to comment especially the spokesperson for "jokesters " as you infer yourself to be . Save that" tolerate ' and 'respect ' crap for some other cliched reverie of yours in hopes to offer something less futile than extolling rationality with hate mongers and ,frankly , some that are just bat -******************** Limbaugh crazy . " *Why start a Thread that is guaranteed to start controversy"*. That sounds a little accusatory to me . That better be rethorical .That better be directed at the subject receiver of this thread . Be sure and mention those sentiments to him , although I don't believe he will warm up to that 'updating ' scenario . "*I don't post anything but humor at any of Joe's political stuff* " So you only post humor to his stuff ? And you want to come here for your serious discourse ( you should have left it at comedy here also)
If Joe does not have you blocked , then your comedic rebuttals and rebukes,on those occasions to him, must not be worth a ********************.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Get off the acid man


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## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

That's another one of your staid responses to me . I think you and I have been around this block before . 
And I think we may be headed there again . So take a vicodin and chill the fk out .


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

For your reference:
I don't like being accused of being a member of the Klan.
I do not ever watch or listen to Limbaugh.
I don't like being accused of supporting Joe's political stance or religious stance, but he is a friend none the less, or do you believe that only those who kiss your ass are friends?.
Most people on this site are fed up with political and religious clap-trap, like I said it is a personal thing.
Texts from various religions are dated and refer to an earlier age which does not exist anymore.
Tolerance is a quality that is admired, even you and I are tolerated on this site, even if we don't always see eye to eye.

I have no personal grievance with you, no ax to grind, so jumping all over my case is like water off a duck's back. Perhaps I don't understand you and what you are all about, but that does not mean I am your enemy.

I don't have the chance to get to the workshop very much at all nowadays, so the majority of my posts are jesting and humor, but believe me I would prefer them to be stories of what I did in the shop today.


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## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Who accused you of being a member of the Klan ? Just tell me his name and I'll go whoop his ass !

I haven't seen you around much lately , have you been hanging out in Stumpy land , or over at Joe's place , or the Handplane of Your Somnambulance threads . I never get to those places ,they are too far away and gas is expensive .

Here's a joke i just made up for you…......

Old Woodworker : " Kid , do you know the difference between a right angle and a left angle ? "

Apprentice : " Yes, I believe I do .

Old Woodworker : " good good , Now do you know the difference between a Right angle

and a Wrong angle ?

Apprentice " No , what would that be ?

Old Woodworker : " I don't know kid ,..........got any hard liquor on ya ?


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## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

!



!


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

moment what s a Jamaican chicken ,


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## Bobmedic (Sep 24, 2010)

Religion is for the weak; faith is a weakness not a virtue. Faith is a poor basis for believing in something that doesn't have good evidence to support it. People spend far too much time, money and lives arguing about who's imaginary friend is the right one. They try to answer the question of "Why" we are here. This is irrelevant, a better question is How did we get here? Asking why we are here is like asking what color is jealousy. If people would take the time to actually learn from one another they would find that we have far more similarities than we do differences. People are people, we need to stop grouping ourselves by race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, politics or any other form of tribalization and live together peacefully.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Thank you Bobmedic, you are correct.

Moment, you are very hard to understand.
FYI:
I don't drink, except for some Baileys occasionally, don't drink beer are hard liquor simply because I don't like its taste, I am not opposed to others drinking. If that joke was inferring that I was a drinker, then it is totally wrong, you assumed something of me that does not exist.
I do, however do drugs, but only those prescribed to me by my doctor's including chemotherapy every 21 days. I have never done any street drugs of any kind.

AS far as threads go, I have not been posting on Joe's except when he has posted something that interests me, and that's not politics or religion. I do not frequent the hand planes thread as I don't have a hand plane and am not interested in plane restoration. I do however frequent the Stumpy thread where the members there meet to discuss things they are working on, passing along WW information and having general discussions about life as a woodworker and all that entails. It is a very pleasant thread to be on, as members truly care about each other, are very supportive and provide light hearted relief. The atmosphere is like members meeting in a cafe for coffee, people drop in and out and you can follow the daily schedule of any of your friends on there. It's not a closed group, everyone is welcome.

As far as my reference to old outdated religious texts, consider this:
Up until a few years ago, being gay was meant to be a happy person. Today the original meaning has been obscured by an additional new meaning which is nowhere near the original. So if a person says they are happy and gay, what exactly do they mean? Now you see why ancient words may not mean what you think they do today, that's all I was trying to say.

Moment, you list yourself as a master of everything; "Artist , musician, master carpenter, woodworker,...varied interests and hobbies." it must be difficult fitting all that into one life. I can only list myself as a musician (of long ago) a design engineer, retired, and beginning woodworking hobbyist, in that order. I have never been so many things at the same time, I'd have a hard time trying to figure out who I was each day. 

I feel for Joe that his name is being thrown around as some sort of evil person, because he is not. Like I said before just because he really has some strong personal issues on politics and religion, does not alter the fact that he is a good woodworker, very giving of that, supports LJ a lot and even has a woodworking information website which is really good. As far as Joe's political and religious views go, they are his own personal views, not mine, but just because of that I can't say anything bad about Joe, because he has so many other qualities. You need to see the whole picture and tolerate parts you are not interested in, you should try it.

Again, I am not your enemy, so please stop treating me as if I were.


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## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

The joke isn't about you rex,, it's just a joke . It's kind of of a Norm McDonald type joke . It's more about me .I' sure as hell don't care what kind of substances you are anyone else puts in their system . No interest to me . I am who I say I am . I have spent my life in the building trades . You don't understand that joke ,because you haven't . I am no more special than a beginner woodworker when it comes to this site . I don't feel ' superior '
to anyone here . As far as Masters go ,you are a master bull********************ter . I would like to take some of the posters on this site out to the woods and hand them a double bladed ax ,show them a tree ,and then just stand way back and see what happens . And don't tell me about your hard life as a design engineer, no comparison .
I thought we had settled our little disagreements of the past . Now you want to come on here and defend him. That's fine . I am going to go back and check some of your content again and see if what you are saying is true . You have regained my interest . As far as defending your heartfelt feelings for Joe , that is a big ass waste of your time . Everyone knows who he is by his words . They deleted that outrageous thread he started that condemned *All* Muslims . The tolerance you show for his " personal views" would not not be reciprocated by him for billions of people ,much less for you . Do you see the irony in that . Am I being absolutely clear about that? Do you understand that ? Because we can argue this point further. Don't tell me how to treat you, Me thinks you protest too much . You came to my end of the swimming pool so enjoy the water . You have a pretty good sense of humor when you're not into that bigotry thing . I kinda respect someone who can make me laugh while they are insulting me . Have a good Sunday Roger . A q u i e t p e a c e f u l l o n e


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## Xaromir (Jun 4, 2011)

"Instead of offering any counter to assertions of documented Islamic savagery, Xaromir responds with puerile ad hominems."

Quickly more about my person, simply to avoid future idiocy: I am neutral in this, as i do not believe in any deity, and i'm not a member of any religious group, but i also like to say it very clearly: I was dared to defend Muslims by Clint Searl as quoted above (who also called me a ***********************************).

I tried not to be to much Anti-Christian or Anti-Muslim, and my quote was merely a device to show that similar cruel things are found in the Bible, and it doesn't really make a difference, and though i CLEARLY stated that i'm neither Christian, nor Jew, or Muslim, i was called a "***********************************", and now it is expect that i take a clear pro-Muslim stance. That's indeed moronic. But OK, your moronic wish is my command.

International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies, Islamic Circle of North America Relief, Muslim Aid, Islamic Relief just to name a few. Highly notable is also the fact that many charitable organizations inspired by this religion struggle tremendously these days due to a general hateful anti-muslim climate, which people LIKE YOU help to create. Muslims tend to be very generous people. Giving to the less fortunate should be a important part of religious life to every Muslim, as it's one of their religion's great fundamental believes, just like it SHOULD be to christian people. Crashcourse recently uploaded an interesting video, and i wish everyone would familiarize and inform themselves at least a tiny bit from more neutral sources, before speaking up with such hateful words. Hatred is one of the main reasons why i rather don't support religion. 





I'm also pretty sure most people in the US cheered for a Muslim or his/her work at some point but haven't been aware of it. There is for instance Muhammad Ali, who is one of Americas most notable figures in modern sports, and he was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom, which is the highest civil honor the US have to offer as i understand it, and he is a Muslim, or *********************************** as you would say, and so is Mike Tyson, though i don't think you would dare call him that to his face. Personally i find Jawed Kari very notable, he is a immigrant to the USA, but also co-founder of YouTube, and we also have to thank him for PayPal's real time anti-fraud system, which is kind of a big deal, Miss USA 2010 also is a Muslim, so was Malcolm X and his Wive, though i disagree with a great many things he said, his contributions to many good and right causes like the black civil rights movements are undeniable. These are just a few very well know examples, but there are a lot more like Keith Ellison or Elias Zerhouni, who was assigned by G.W Bush, but i know people tend to have a short attention span so i'm not sure if you are even still reading.

90% of all religious people are good at heart, never mind their religion, but the rest is who we always hear about in the news, and that's why many people tend to have such a one-sided opinion about people that are different, which is only making things worse.

Over and out.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Cassius Clay avoided the Army by becoming a Muslim and to receive a Presidential Medal of Freedom 
award is disrespectful to those that truly earned the award.


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## ClintSearl (Dec 8, 2011)

"There is unanimity that the male apostate must be put to death."

Liberal talk show host Tawfiq Okasha recently appeared on "Egypt Today," airing a video of Muslims slicing off a young man's head off for the crime of apostasy-in this instance, the crime of converting to Christianity and refusing to renounce it.

A young man appears held down by masked men. His head is pulled back, with a knife to his throat. He does not struggle and appears resigned to his fate. Speaking in Arabic, the background speaker, or "narrator," chants a number of Muslim prayers and supplications, mostly condemning Christianity, which, because of the Trinity, is referred to as a polytheistic faith: "Let Allah be avenged on the polytheist apostate"; "Allah empower your religion, make it victorious against the polytheists"; "Allah, defeat the infidels at the hands of the Muslims," and "There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger."

Then, to cries of "Allahu Akbar!"- Allah is greater!"-the masked man holding the knife to the apostate's throat begins to slice away, severing the head completely after approximately one minute of graphic knife-carving, as the victim drowns in blood. Finally, the severed head is held aloft to more Islamic slogans of victory.

Visibly distraught, Tawfiq Okasha, the host, asks: "Is this Islam? Does Islam call for this? How is Islam related to this matter?...These are the images that are disseminated throughout the electronic media in Europe and America…. Can you imagine?" Then, in reference to Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood and Salafis, whose political influence has grown tremendously, he asks, "How are such people supposed to govern?"

Only the other day, a prominent Egyptian Salafi leader-referring to the canonical hadiths, including Muhammad's command, "Whoever leaves his religion, kill him"-openly stated that no Muslim has the right to apostatize, or leave Islam.

Any number of Islamic legal manuals make explicitly clear that apostasy is a capital crime, punishable by death. The first "righteous caliph," a model of Muslim piety, had tens of thousands of former Muslims slaughtered-including by burning, beheading, and crucifixion-simply because they tried to break away from Islam. According to the Encyclopaedia of Islam, the most authoritative reference work on Islam in the English language, "there is unanimity that the male apostate must be put to death."

Finally, a word on the "prayers" or supplications to Allah made by the Muslim executioners in the video: these are standard and formulaic. In other words, these are not just masked, anonymous butchers who pray to Allah as they engage in acts of cutting throats and holding up heads, these are top-ranking Muslim leaders, who appear regularly on TV, who invoke such hate-filled prayers. See here for examples of Muslims supplicating Allah to strike infidels with cancer and disease "till they pray for death and do not receive it;" there are even formalized prayers in Mecca, blasted on megaphones as Muslims honor their obligation to go on a pilgrimage at least once in their lives, supplicating Allah to make the lives of Christians and Jews "hostage to misery; drape them with endless despair, unrelenting pain and unremitting ailment; fill their lives with sorrow and pain and end their lives in humiliation and oppression."

"Is this Islam?"

You decide.





The video ifyou have the stomach:


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

This is all about Joe Lydon putting his foot in it. Failing miserably to make a distinction between Muslims who think nothing of decapitating a man for not renouncing his new found Christian faith, (the EVIL, E V I L, E V I L Muslims) and those Muslims (99.9% of Muslims) who are just like you and me, regular people doing regular things and horrified at such barbarity.
I don't know Joe, he strikes me as being like one of my elderly Uncles, who has an opinion on everything and is not afraid to voice it. I just roll my eyes and clench my butt cheeks at some of the misguided theories of his, much the same as the (now deleted) Sharia Law and Muslims are EVIL, E V I L, E V I L post, that spawned moments not unreasonable rebuttal.
No reasonable person could argue that fanatical Muslims who carry out such atrocities are evil. But don't go tarring everyone with the same brush.
The " What is the difference between a' peaceful Muslim' and an 'evil radical Muslim " remark from Joe's (now deleted) post is just another example of digging a hole for yourself and making it bigger.
Funny how it's turned into a pissing contest. Funnier still that all those religious quotes are the piss.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

… he strikes me as being like one of my elderly Uncles

That is funny. I was just going to comment that this thread is *great*. It brings back fond memories of my Aunt Stella and Uncle Luigi arguing about how long to cook the pasta. I really think that I am detecting the aroma of Bengay and Preparation H in the air.


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## ClintSearl (Dec 8, 2011)

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Punto final.


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

Bobmedic i am weak ,but have faith as we all do in something .


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

moment soon as i learn to swim can i come to your end of the pool and play with you,


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## jmos (Nov 30, 2011)

biomedic - I loved your post

Eddie, no, not all of us have faith in "something" if you define faith as believing in something for which there is no testable evidence. I hear this dodge from religious folk frequently, and it's demonstrably untrue. I fully support your right to believe whatever you like, but don't assume everyone does.

As for Islam, I think it's largely where the Catholic church was during the Inquisition. The Inquisition lasted from the late 1100's to the mid 1800's (it happened all over Europe, not just in Spain), and some of the most horrendous things you can imagine were done to those who were accused (not proven) to have dome something to offend the Church. The decapitation video would have fit right in. All done in the name of the God of the Bible. I do see radical Islam as a huge national security issue for the West, but I don't think invading Islamic countries is the best way to deal with the threat. The biggest problem is that these folks really do believe what they say they believe. The Bible calls for death sentences for all sorts of minor infractions, Christians just don't take those parts as seriously as they once did. A lot of Muslims do take those admonitions seriously. Eventually I'm sure their faith will evolve and move past this, but while it is going on, we need to be very vigilant.


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## KnickKnack (Aug 20, 2008)

…Christians just don't take those parts as seriously as they once did

I've been following this, and I'd just like to make a simple point, reference the quote above which has been mentioned or alluded to a few times.

The Koran is to the Muslim, as I understand it and it has been explained to me, the Divine word of God. As in, if you will "God wrote it".
I therefore think it unlikely that at some point Muslims will start taking any of it "less seriously". In fact, if you look around the world it seems to being taken *more* seriously, and literally, with each passing year.
You may point to more "liberal" Muslim areas such as Turkey and say - "look - they take it less seriously there". But I'd disagree. I've met and talked to drunk Muslims - they know what they're doing is "wrong", in an islamic sense, but they chose to do it anyway.


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

jmos you have faith you thought i was talking religion .i too support you on what ever you believe its not that big of a deal to me .biomedic thinks that faith is for the weak and he is right.he wanted to know where we came from i already know its ok i have faith in gravity but i cant see it and nobody know why its there but it is .


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Moment:

I am sorry, but as far as Joe goes, I look at the good in him with his projects and free help website, all woodworking endevours, after all this is a woodworking site isn't it? Whatever Joe thinks outside of woodworking does not interest me, I can overlook what I think are his shortcommings, but can also praise his woodworking ability, yes I am able to seperate the two.
I do take exception that my life as a design engineer was not at times very stressful and difficult outside of the job. I served a 5 year appreticeship, got through university and attained my masters is design enginerring. I have worked all over Europe and Africa, probably seen more of the world than most, and having "been there", I understand more about people in other countries than most do here. Living in another country is no vacation.
At times my life has been pretty hellish; I was left with 3 children to raise on my own, the children were 6, 4 and 18 months and I was mom and dad to them until the last one graduated. So don't tell me I had an easy life at anything, because there are not many men out there who would have taken on and succeded at doing what I had to, that offends me.
I am certainly not a bigot either.
Well this morning I woke early after only 4 hours sleep, which worked out pretty well as I wanted to go to the shop in the early morning while it was cool. I managed to get 2 leg assemblies finished for my bench/layout table which I badly need in order to get some projects going. I am making it the right height so that when I have to use the wheelchair is will accessable.
It started to get hot around noon, so I came back to the house about 12:30pm. It would be lovely to splash around in your pool to cool down. I'm going to try to do the same tomorrow, at least it gets me some time in the shop, it's been a long time since I have been able to get there.

I am glad that I make you laugh, that is my quest, and my shield.
I do hope today is to your liking and that you have time with your family.
Wish I had a pool.


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## jmos (Nov 30, 2011)

Eddie, that is really parsing words. We can prove gravity, it is consistent and predictable. We can run repeatable experiments on gravity. We can develop theories about gravity that make predictions and test those predictions. There is nothing faith based about gravity. Our understanding of gravity may evolve, and become deeper, but that is based on evidence and experimentation.

Faith in a spiritual sense requires belief in something that can not be tested or proven. Try as some might, there is no proof for any god, let alone the God of any specific faith.

KnicKnack - I never said it would be anytime soon - it took Christianity the better part of 1500 years to moderate. Rather puts in perspective why China was cautious with dealing with the West during that period; like us and Islam now. Also, the Bible is considered the 'inerrant Word of God for Christians' like the Koran is to the Muslims. Used through out history for some pretty awful things, as well as some good things. It's pretty inarguable Christianity has moderated, and those passages calling for death to lots of different folks are largely ignored or explained away be liberal theologians as not really meaning what the obviously mean. We can only hope the Muslims do it faster.


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## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

Roger, *some* of your humor comes across as iffy on the prejudice meter, It is probably not intended to be but comes across that way to me . We have discussed your family situation before and I have told you that I have great respect and admiration for a man who puts family first and accomplishes what you have . Not an easy thing to do , monumental in fact .I think your children must be proud of you and very helpful and loving to you . I could relate some stories of my own ,but it is irrelevant to the topic . 
Life is not an easy proposition , we all must foster some pretty heavy rationalizations just to make it to the dinner bell each day . People( not you ) who want to serve up a plate of fear and loathing instead of hot biscuits,, tend to make my stomach growl.


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

jmos thanks .the question was where it comes from not if its there .gravity is a fact .but the origin of it is unknown.but as God goes you are right faith is believing in something you cant see. and it is foolishness to ones that dont believe.


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

hot biscuits and gravy, some pancakes ,syurp and eggs. lets eat .and let the fear go to the dogs .then a cold glass of tea and a splash in the pool come on its ok we will have a good time .dont matter what you believe or dont believe let enjoy life and any moment we can while we'er here.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Interesting.

The origin of gravity. Makes one wonder. Thanks.


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## AKSteve (Feb 4, 2012)

Dang I missed the whole thing! I was out drinking and partying with my little Red Head sweetie and here you guys are going off on goofiness! get off the Computer and go have a life !  And Eddie pass me those biscuits would ya I am starving! Amazing what a good work out will do for ya. LOL.


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## Bobmedic (Sep 24, 2010)

In what other discourse are people admonished to respect someones beliefs? Say you have a neighbor that spends every sunday digging a giant hole in his back yard. When he is asked why he is digging he replies by saying that he believes there is a diamond buried in his yard that is the size of a refrigerator. When asked why he believes this he responds with the same responses you get from religious people. He says it gives my life meaning or it feels good to believe or I wouldn't want to live in a world where there isn't a diamond buried in my backyard the size of a refrigerator. Someone like this would be excused from any public office or position of importance immediately. But change the subject to god and people have to respect his beliefs. This is BS. People don't respect beliefs they evaluate reasons. If a persons reasons are good enough people will follow them effortlessly. Why do people believe religions? Just because it was in a really old book? This is like people worshipping the omniscient JK Rowling and her prophet or son Harry Potter in a couple hundred years. A couple thousand years ago people were polytheistic, which meant they believed in many gods. Today most of the religious people of the world are monotheistic, which means they believe in one god. Progress of a sort, I think society is getting nearer the true number of gods all the time. Hopefully we can put aside our differences and stop listening to the barely coherent ramblings of some ancient barely literate north african pseudo-intellectuals before someone with a hankering for apocalypse gets their hands on a WMD.


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

Gravy is named after gravity without the 'it'. Isaac Newton was the first person in history to make gravy. 
It tasted of apples apparently, and was considered by all to be delicious, especially on pork.
I thought everyone knew that.


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

thank runner i didnt know that


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

Bobmedic that neighbor lives next door to me . you must be close to my house . and those people have been in office before and i dont have a religion.but i do believe .and if you dont believe in God that your right .but we can still love each other i do if i just loved ones that believed like me then i would be wrong


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## Bobmedic (Sep 24, 2010)

Eddie, you are right. I don't exclude people who think differently than me. It isn't non believers that are exclusionary though. It is the religious that say if you don't believe as we do you can't be a part of our group or even worse say that you are going to hell. When people tell me that I am going to hell because I am a non believer I just laugh. Do they think if I don't believe in god that I am going to believe there is a hell for me to go to? A person can believe whatever they want, privately. But when religious people try to push their beliefs on me or my children or try to have their junk science taught in schools, then I have a problem. To quote a great man " It matters not if my neighbor believes in twenty gods or none, it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg" Thomas Jefferson


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

" barely coherent ramblings of some ancient barely literate north african pseudo-intellectuals"

A polite way of saying ****************************************.

I like it


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

RockyTopScott do you believe


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

Eddie

God - yes
Trinity - yes
Bodily resurrection - yes
Is Jesus my Lord and Savior - yes

None of this is negotiable, regardless of other's beliefs or others mockery of my beliefs.

Is any further clarification needed?


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

do you love everybody,


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

I do and the way i display it is to pray they will find their way to the Lord.

I believe without him nothing else really matters, in the end


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

love is the only way ,i pray every time i can,we being belivers we know that he loves all ,if they are on this earth he loves them all the same


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

I think the 282,517 dead from the 2004 Tsunami would disagree with you (if they could).


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

So you know where they are now? Their souls?

This is the problem when finite humans try to intepret an infinite God. We simply can't due to our inherent limitations.


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

No. No idea.
Probably the same place as Cro-Magnon mans'. Or Java Mans'. Or Indo-China Mans'.

This is the problem when finite humans try to interpret an infinite God.


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

At least your honest.


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

Do you believe in Dinosaurs?
I only ask because I know people who believe that dinosaur fossils were faked in a big conspiracy.


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

Based on the evidence I have seen, yes


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

Then would you agree that the dinosaurs got a rough deal from the Chicxulub impact, and it was a lucky break for the mammals?


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Some of those dinosaurs are still not happy about the whole event.


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

Since i was not in attendance I can only speculate how and/or when they reached their exctinction. I understand you are trying to pose the old earth versus new earth question.


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

What about the Sinclair dinosaur?


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

I am sorry, but I am not familiar with the Sinclair dinosaur.
Yes, we both know where this is going…
I'm just curious as to how every religious text in history neglects to mention what was a fairly major event in the history of the world.


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

And another thing I'd like to know is how can Barney look so happy, even when he's pissed?


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

As is mentioned in Job 40:15-18? Not their exctinction but their existence.

Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

I think Barney had botox


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

Re: Job 40:15-18
Hippopotamus (or a mushroom risotto with fungi of dubious origin)


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

I think Barney is still drunk in the mug shot.


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

Barney is on a constant sugar rush, from all the gum drops and candy canes. 
It's like crack cocaine for dinosaurs.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Are you suggesting that poor nutrition led to the extinction of the dinosaurs?

I always believed that it was one of these:


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

Yes hippos have tails like a cedar. No doubt.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

And brass was well known at the time that dinosaurs existed.


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

*runner* the dead from the 2004 Tsunami know that that wasnt God that caused it ,


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

Was copper and zinc brought in by the aliens later?


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Huh? Are we talking about the Flinstones here?

I have to go bring my Velociraptor herd in for the night. Otherwise the neighbors complain about all the noise.


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## pcott (Jul 7, 2009)

I must admit, as a devout believer, I struggle with the extreme right wing views of some Christians on this board. Indeed, I believe Jesus was the first egalitarian, and would not recognize most of his followers today. In the New Testament, I believe that looking after the poor is mentioned more than anything else. Especially more often than any pro-capitalist, pro death penalty, anti- tax position I've heard the Christian right espouse. 
Before any can start calling me names, I have a degree in classical history, and a masters in early church history, and exegesis, so I'm not just some fruitcake. (I will admit that that point is up for debate somewhat ) 
I realize that I may never want to come back here after saying this, but it needed to be said.


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Paul,

You sound like a man of reason who could get along with any other reasonable person. Thank you for speaking up.

- Chuck


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## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

I am going to say it again just to clear any confusion up, I am probably the most conservative person in this thread (conservatism does not equal religious).

Now for years I have seen the left throw out the term racist to counter any valid arguement by conservatives and have defended said arguements. I have watched the tea party come into public view on ideals that I agree strongly with only to be called racists.

I have to say, embarassed, that this time the left would definately be correct to throw this accusation out. Views such as these are part of the reason an ultra liberal was elected as president and part of the reason that some say the Republican party needs to either come out and kick out the racists or be fractured to its core.

I wish some people wouldn't call themselves conservatives, infact I wish they would just join the democrats.


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

Paul C. i only went to the eight grade in school , i have no degreeses in any thing ,i do read a lot , i study a lot what i wanted to know .started with the stars i was studying astronomy and the languages that was used to name them were in Arabic, Calde, Hebrew, Greek,lead me in a twenty year research of these languages.so did my fair share of history which means his story. if thats not bad enought i worked in politics during all and more of this twenty years r so i think that make me a fruitcake to take so long to know you love all you can to everybody. your wrong to think that God dont know his own because we all are .


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

dinosaurs thats a strange thing to pop up on a tread ,ive seen them well there remains .right here in this country ,animal that also are found all over the world . whats that got to do with anything


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## derosa (Aug 21, 2010)

I'm gonna agree with all the anti-Muslim sentiment that's come up in this post. They're all a bunch of filthy ********************************************* that hate everyone. So grab your guns and your bible, it's time for an old school crusade to teach them the true meaning of Christian tolerance and love. Make them think the first few crusades were just a warm up and a walk in the park. 
Seriously, how can some of you claim to love God while speaking such hatred towards another group of people that also love God, maybe not in the manner you would choose but God didn't crown your denomination the top dog either. 
Muslims suppress women, whoop de ********************, so do two of the churches in the town I live in, give them time, they'll catch up.
Muslims preach hatred for other religions, nothing like showing them how wrong this is through hate speech. 
The Koran is filled with violence, ever bother cracking open Joshua or Judges? 
Their laws are barbaric, so are many of the laws of the OT by modern standards, again give them time. 
It's easy to sit in judgement of other people but that is exactly what we aren't supposed to be doing. The west has helped through out the last couple hundred years to keep the middle east backwards and uneducated so they could be exploited easier and even when nations like Turkey prove their worth and ability we still don't want to let them in the club. You don't like them, try being the better man and reach your hand out rather then offering them the back of your hand and wondering why they bit back when you treated them poorly.


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

ChuckV the extinction of the dinosaurs was way before the flood .it was 100 of thousands of years ago.but then they may have been stoners who knows


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

It's doubtful that the dinosaurs were stoners, as they didn't have opposable thumbs.


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

If man had been aware of dinosaurs and science and natural history at the time of figuring out the really big question, he may have come up with a different solution than the OT.
It's a riveting read, but is simply an early attempt to explain how we came to be. 
And the people bought into it, and lo, there was religion, and division and hatred followed closely behind.


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## vipond33 (Jul 25, 2011)

eddie: he wanted to know where we came from i already know its ok i have faith in gravity but i cant see it and nobody know why its there but it is.

jmos: There is nothing faith based about gravity. Our understanding of gravity may evolve, and become deeper, but that is based on evidence and experimentation. Faith in a spiritual sense requires belief in something that can not be tested or proven. Try as some might, there is no proof for any god, let alone the God of any specific faith.

We test and experiment with God everyday, in fact sometimes it seems that that is all we do. Our understanding may evolve and become deeper as we compare, with our conscience, our thoughts and actions against an ideal. 
There is and has been a staggering amount of evil and pain in the world so we naturally ask "Where is God?" To my mind he is not in the world but he is us.

I'm with the American author Haven Kimmel on this idea as she writes in the novel "The Solace of Leaving Early" "…he said almost nothing, and ground his teeth against his desire to tell them the truth: God is helpless. We are at the mercy of our own radical freedom, and all God can do is take into God's self the grief, the violence, the sublime acts of kindness, the good sex. God comes to us from the future, and has only one godlike gift: the lure. We are lured toward truth, beauty, and goodness…the lure is pulling at our hearts like some lucid joy inside every actual occasion and all we have to do is…Say yes."

eddie: and it is foolishness to ones that don't believe.

gene


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

My boy Moment…still fighting the good fight….you go girl…..


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

Gene you plowing pretty deep there ,the Truth well said


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## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

*@ Roger* ,..........If you need a hand getting your shop wheel chair accessible , I am taking some time off in early July and I would be pleased to come over and lend a hand to that endeavor . I also have an almost new 24" wheelchair with retractable footrests , 400 lb. rating , very nice , if you would have use for this , let me know and it's yours . Bono Note , Rex….............m.


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

*QUOTE:*

"We test and experiment with God everyday, in fact sometimes it seems that that is all we do. Our understanding may evolve and become deeper as we compare, with our conscience, our thoughts and actions against an ideal. 
There is and has been a staggering amount of evil and pain in the world so we naturally ask "Where is God?" To my mind he is not in the world but he is us."

*As someone once said …. "Oh Please!"*

You've just stated a few of the reasons why I'm NOT Religous. I don't have to go through that Never Ending Battle of…. "Second Guessing" and "Comparing" with our "Thoughts", "Conscience" and "Actions" against an Unknown "Ideal".

I do what needs to be done in the Proper Manner, I don't Second Guess Myself, and get on with Life. (Notice there is No "My" in front of "Life")

"Where is God?" (Sentence Removed out of Respect) HE might be YOU but HE'S NOT ME.

"eddie: and it is foolishness to ones that don't believe." Yes it is, but that doesn't mean they are Fools for NOT Believing.

Isn't this Grand?? We can all express our Personal Opinions without ANGER, HATE, DISRESPECT thrown in just to try and make our point more Valid. Also known as "Shoving It Down Your/My Throat!"

*THAT URINATES Me Off, To No End!!!*

Have a Nice Day Ya'll ;-}

Richard


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## Everett1 (Jun 18, 2011)

for fairness, didn't Christians, many many years ago, kill LOTS of people in the name of God? Just saying

I think religion, personally, is make believe. BUT, anything that helps you get through the day, more power to you.

vipond, isn't gravity from the mass and rotation of the Earth?


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Moment: That's awfully nice of you. I do have a good "Ride" chair that has the footrests removed, also a walker and a few canes. I don't use these items all the time, but when my feet and fingertips get numb with meds side effects, I need them, also due to rapid fatigue, I cannot stand or walk for very long. This is all part of the chemotherapy and other drugs I am on. My treatment cycle is every 21 days, and basically the first 2 weeks after a treatment render me pretty incapable of doing anything. I'd like to suggest an alternative, and if it is OK, I'd like to PM you on it.


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## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

That would be fine , Roger .


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## b2rtch (Jan 20, 2010)

A devout Muslim entered a black cab in London. 
The music, Radio One, was playing. 
He curtly asked the cabbie to turn off the radio because as decreed by his religious teaching from the Koran, he must not listen to music because in the time of the prophet there was no music, especially Western music which is the music of the infidel. 
The cab driver politely switched off the radio, stopped the cab, and opened the door. 
The Muslim asked him, "What are you doing?" 
The cabbie answered, "In the time of the prophet there were no taxis, so ******************** off and wait for a camel !!"


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Most excellent


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## jmos (Nov 30, 2011)

Ev, gravity is actually what we experience as mass interacts with and curves space time. Rather complicated but fascinating stuff.


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

Rick dont get pissed off ,i did not say anybody was a fool i said it foolihness to one that dont believe .that dont make them a fool i have many friends that dont belive and are far more wise than me in matters .you believe what you like its your right. i havent read any thing of shoving it down your throat .
ps and thank you for wishing me a nice day same to you 
eddie


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## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

jmos that sounds like a interesting study.but right now i cant even get my dove tails to look right told my neighbor it was the gravitational pull that was causing it .he said what? told him that the best excuse i had it couldn.t be me messing them up


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)




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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Moment, I am also blocked but in the pursuit of peace I forgive Joe, Rex and Rockytop.


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## live4ever (Feb 27, 2010)

It amazes me how much non-Muslims throw around words that aren't even a part of the average Muslim's experience. Focusing on irrelevancies of a religion is futile and only serves to generate xenophobia. You can look up odd, barbaric, weird, antiquated, or frightening facts about ANY religion or culture (never mind paying attention to something called authenticity…if it's published somewhere it must be true).

If you want to make the case that Islam is an evil religion, you must prove that it is practiced/believed that way by the millions of American Muslims or the billions of Muslims worldwide. I know enough Muslims and enough about Islam to know complete and utter horse feces when I see it. Digging up odd translations of the Qur'an or quotes from terrorists doesn't make the case. It only serves to illustrate the obvious agenda, or best-case, short-sightedness of the folks who propagate those facts.

Those of you who claim to have read the Qur'an obviously skimmed for key words you were looking for. If you actually read it, perhaps repetitive themes would stand out to you more than one random line about something you'd like to pin on all Muslims. But I suppose it would require too much intelligence to attempt to extract themes and concepts from a book…much more fun to take it as literally and conveniently as possible, especially when it's mangled by layers of translation. By the way, a useful fact that I'm sure most are unaware of is that classical Arabic, the language of the Qur'an, is very different from modern Arabic. This creates translation controversies before you even get to Western language translations because there aren't exactly great ways to figure out what a particular word meant in 600AD. This isn't a difficult concept to understand - just think about how much English has changed in 200, 100, or even 50 years.

Find a Muslim on the street and ask them to recite a Hadith. Uh…what? Chances are they won't know a single one. And they certainly won't know less reliable ones like the ones being tossed around this thread. Uh, reliability? Oh dear. I don't know what he's talking about. Those of you throwing around Hadiths surely must know that they are simply a collection of things that were SUPPOSEDLY said by Muhammad. Most of them are triple hearsay at best, and most of them go something like, "One time my friend said his friend saw his uncle hanging out with Muhammad, and he overheard them talking about so-so." Unfortunately, it's the "so-so" that gets repeated, as if it's a Qur'anic quote or some kind of divine fact. It's not. It's a game of fricken telephone from 600AD. In other words, for the average Muslim, hadith don't and shouldn't really mean much apart from some general clues on how Muhammad thought people should practice/behave. They carry minimal religious weight especially compared to the Qur'an. BUT that doesn't mean Imams [priests] don't LOVE to throw them around to fit their agenda and viewpoint. The Saudis loooooove hadiths that can be twisted to fit a mysogynistic agenda. The vast majority of Hadith are unsupported by the Qur'an, and many contradict themes/concepts from the Qur'an.

Here's another fun game for those of you who like to throw around Qur'anic quotes as proof of the general badness of Islam/Muslims. Give each verse a score of "good," "evil", or "neutral." Then report back to us the score. What will you do when the "evil" verses that are commonly thrown around number…oh…10? 20?... and the remaining 6,000 or so verses are either "good" or "neutral?" Darn. That would make your argument seem pretty weak and pathetic overall, so I know you won't do it. Even better would be to do the same for the Bible and Torah.

I've talked to a lot of Muslims about Qur'an vs. hadith, and an interesting thing is that a lot of times people aren't aware that a particular practice or belief comes from Qur'an or hadith…it might be something they heard from an imam. It's amazing that even though imams are supposed to have no divine authority in Islam like a Christian priest, they wield somuchpower because people would rather be sheep than read for themselves. And what about people in countries where literacy is low? Even more power for religious "leaders."


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

DKV: I do appreciate your forgiveness, although I am not really sure about what.
I my book, you treat everyone the same and respect their ways an views, I don't believe in confrontation of any kind, and I believe that life is too short to add turmoil into it.


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

I like cake..


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