# Is my table saw motor dead?



## justinwdemoss (Jun 22, 2010)

I have been rehabbing an old craftsman table saw 113.29940. So far I have replaced the switch with a paddle, added a link belt, and removed the rust. Today, while making some cuts in some 6/4 red gum, the saw tripped a breaker for the shop. After resetting the breaker I tried the saw again. The motor makes a loud buzzing noise, but does nothing except dim the lights in the garage. It is the original motor. Is it time for a new one? If I get a new one, is it safe to get a more powerful one? It is 1 hp, I was thinking 1.5 hp would be nice. Any recommendations as to where I should buy the new motor from….if I need it.


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## cabmaker (Sep 16, 2010)

You will certainly be okay with a 1 1/2hp. Those older craftsmn saws were notorious for collecting sawdust inside the case which was responsible for a rewind in one I had twenty years ago. Good luck !


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## Timbo (Aug 21, 2008)

Is the motor locked up? Try to spin the motor (with the saw unplugged) something may be preventing it from moving, if it spins, try it again.


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## justinwdemoss (Jun 22, 2010)

Timbo,

I spun the motor shaft by hand, then plugged it back in and turned it on, nothing! Still has the really loud hum/buzz.


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

Does it smell funny? Like burnt insulation?


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

It could be a blown start capacitor as well. If you have a shop near you that rebuilds electric motors, see what they want to fix yours…


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## THOMRIDER (Dec 31, 2009)

well i had the same thing happen to my pool filter motor and it was blown bearings in the rear, causing the magneto to stick to the surrounding magnets and not spin freely hence a buzzing sound, when this happen to me it was more expensive to have it rebuilt than to buy a new one. My motor was a 1.5 hp and I got a 2hp for less than rebuilding the old one. I went to Grainger they had the best price.

If you need any further help let me know.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

I was thinking that it could be a capacitor as well. Check inside the cans on the motor…it'll look obviously defective if it's bad…cheap and easy to fix. It could also be a stuck centrifigal switch.


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## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

I agree with knotscott, about the centrifugal starter switch.

I had an old craftsman radial arm saw that would do this on a regular basis. Sometimes I could fix it by blowing compressed air into the end of the motor. Other times, I had to tear it apart to get the dust out.


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## justinwdemoss (Jun 22, 2010)

Howie,

There was a bit of a hot smell, but I had noticed that the belt was loose again and this is likely the cause of the slight smell as the belt was starting to slip.

knotscott,

Is the capacitor in the little tube-like cover that is on the outside/back of the motor? How would I know if it is bad?

Then, where would the centrifugal switch be located?

Thanks


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## Camper (Jul 31, 2010)

A capacitor is bad if it is swollen or leaking. Those are the two most common visible signs of a bad capacitor. Good Luck


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## justinwdemoss (Jun 22, 2010)

I just took a look at the capacitor, the end with the collections (top) has what appears to be a web-like blobs of white covering half of it. If I didn't know better, i would think that some insect has built a cocoon on it. At about $2-3 to replace it, I think I will start there. Please let me know if you think this is looking more and more like the problem.


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## cpollock (Jan 19, 2009)

I think we have as much fun fixing these tools as using them, I know I do. Nothing beats the satisfaction of beating the Grim Reaper of tools. Good luck on the motor.


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## justinwdemoss (Jun 22, 2010)

Sorry CharlieL,

I used the shop vac to suck some dust out of the motor, but did not try to remove the housing to give it a look. I noticed that the extension cord was a 13 amp and the motor is 14, so this may have lead to the initial problem. i by-passed the cord by moving the saw to the outlet, but that only got the same result. The saw work before the new switch and after for several hours of operation, so I doubt the switch is the issue. When the saw tripped the breaker I thought about the other things on the circuit so I plugged it into a different circuit. It tripped the safety breaker/switch on that power strip. All of your ideas were solid and I tried them out before looking at the capacitor. Sorry for not getting back to you on them. I was in a panic and was hoping for a quick fix and the ideas just kept coming.

Thanks everyone that added their two cents, please keep the ideas coming and I will try to stay up on this post.


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

Justin FWiW…my ex wife bought a piece of a bridge just outside Loveland once. (g)


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

An internal centrifugal switch is usually at the opposite end of the motor as the shaft. If you can get at it, sometimes just tapping it with a screwdriver or probe will release it. Even a light tap on the end with a rubber mallet might release it. You should also spray it liberally with something like WD40.


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## Timbo (Aug 21, 2008)

Justin, I have an old Craftsman motor that will not spin and hums (not too loud). I can plug it in then give it a spin to get it going and it will run fine which tells me it probably has a bad capacitor, the capacitor is used to start the motor and is also called the starting capacitor. You could try this (with the belt off and spinning the correct direction). If it does not run then you could look elsewhere, like knotscott explains. Also- if you have an air compressor try blowing out the motor, the more saw dust you get out the better. If you still can't get it to work then you might start looking for a place to have it repaired or buy another motor.


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

If you are planning to upgrade the motor to 1.5 HP, now is a good time to do it. For the motor to draw locked rotor amps and trip the breaker several times, even if the capacitor is the problem, you have probably damaged the motor windings. When you get a new motor, replace the breaker (they are degraded when actually used that hard).

A locked rotor amp situation is a safety issue, if you are using an undersized cord, or a long cord, I have seen these light up and glow red hot. In a wood shop, that is a situation you really want to avoid. Size the extention cord to cover the locked rotor amps of the largest tool that you could plug into it for the length. Check your wiring to your recptacle and your receptale to make sure ther is no damage as well.

Troubleshoot the motor on the bench, rebuild, rewind it, have fun with it, if you want - after you replace it. Then you have a spare. Create a special cord to do your toubleshooting on your motor with a switch and fuse or breaker rated for the locked rotor amp rating and use this. -- Please-- The idea, and may be over kill, is to have as little potential of heating the wires behind the walls. Those kinds of fires can burn for hours and you don't know they are there.

Just a thought--


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## justinwdemoss (Jun 22, 2010)

knotscott,

I assume that I have to take the shielding/housing off the end to see this? I am headed home early from work today and will try to get a new capacitor at either Grainger or Sears repair center. I plan to replace the capacitor, plow out the motor and look for the centrifugal switch. This saw rehab project has been extremely educational.

Timbo,

I tried spinning the shaft to get the motor started, but still have the belt on. I will take the load off and try your idea. And as mentioned above, will be tracking down a new capacitor and a better extension cord.

David,

Wow! you know a lot more about motors than I ever will. Thank you for the information, but I am hoping that a simple capacitor replacement and dust cleanout is all that is needed. I really don't have the budget to get a new motor right now. This saw cost almost nothing to get and the wife might leave me if it turns into a money pit. I love saving old tools, but I have my limit. Call it a law of dimenishing returns.


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

In a former career - Licensed Master Heating, A/C, and Refrigeration; 1st class Stationary Engineer and Licensed Gas fitter. Worked on everything from residential to commercial boilers, chillers, and refrigeration.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

"knotscott, I assume that I have to take the shielding/housing off the end to see this? "

Possibly, but they vary depending on type. The only time I ever had the centrifugal switch stick was on an open frame motor, so I just sprayed it and poked around with a screwdriver, and voila! It worked.


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## justinwdemoss (Jun 22, 2010)

OK, so here is the bad news…..new capacitor, dust blown out of motor and still just a loud hum. I can't find the centrifugal switch as I am unwilling to take the entire housing off the motor and can't see it through any of the openings. Nothing visible looks like switch from your picture knotscott.

I am thinking of ordering a new motor from Grizzly. They have a 1 hp 3450 rpms 110 volt for $125, or a 1 1/2 hp 3450 rpms 110v for $175 on Amazon.com. They are model numbers G2533 and G2535 respectively.

My wife just told me that Santa is bringing the Delta T2 fence that I wanted, so going back to my craftsman professional jobsite saw is likely out and I had high hopes for this one.

Any thoughts?

I still may see what it would cost to get this motor repaired, but for $125 to get a new motor, having heard high repair bill stories, I think a new may be the way to go.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

If you're getting as new motor, I'd pay the extra $50 for 50% more power.


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## justinwdemoss (Jun 22, 2010)

I am thinking the same thing. I have used direct drive motor saws to thins point, so what will the benefits be of 1/2 more hp? Right now I run a thin kerf blade, I am assuming the regualr kerf and dados will be better. I guess what I am asking is has anyone done this upgrade and what have they noticed?


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## Chriskmb5150 (Dec 23, 2009)

I have a 1 3/4hp 110v motor from a delta 36-715 hybrid saw i used to have. the motor has literally a few minutes run time on it. 
Not sure if this motor will fit your saw so check out the link and let me know. its not doing me any good just sitting in my garage.

$75 plus shipping from 76712


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## justinwdemoss (Jun 22, 2010)

Autumn,

Glad to hear that you had everything work out for you. I do not appear so lucky

Chriskmb5150,

My saw is an open back contractor model, so the motor size is not the problem, Waco TX is pretty far. I appreciate the offer, but I did the shipping on it and $55 is the cheapest UPS can get it here.

CharlieL,

I agree that 1 1/2 is the better option. I am already trying to work some magic to make the budget fit the bigger motor. 1 hp from an old motor was really a struggle on stock over 4/4.


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

have yiou tried giving it a spin when you turn it on?


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## blockhead (May 5, 2009)

If Chris is willing to sell you a larger motor than what you're looking at, for $130 including shipping, with only a few minutes on it, why not go that route? That's still a lot cheaper than the 1 1/2 from Amazon and a 1/4 more hp. Just curious…


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## justinwdemoss (Jun 22, 2010)

Chriskmb5150,

I sent you a personal message about the motor offer.

Blockhead,

Thanks for talking some sense into me.


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## justinwdemoss (Jun 22, 2010)

Topamax,

Yeah I spun the motor and got nothing.

The old capacitor has two terminals with one attachment each, the new one has two terminals with two attachments for each terminal. Any chance this is the problem? The Capacitors are rated exactly the same.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Justin - I think if you check the UPS shipping with a weekday origination date, the price drops down < $40 from Waco, TX to Loveland, OH. When I checked, it defaulted to today as an origination date, so higher fees applied. USPS was also < $40 for a 50# package. Worth checking…


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## Camper (Jul 31, 2010)

Justin,

I am not sure what you mean by "attachments" on the capacitor but you need the right capacitor for the job. you can read more here


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## justinwdemoss (Jun 22, 2010)

The capacitor I bought has all of the right specs on Grainger's website, and is listed as "two-blade" as is the broken one, but out of the box, it has two terminals, but four blades - two for each terminal. I assumed this was just a redundancy, but I may be wrong. Again this new capacitor has all the right ratings (216-259v, 110-125, 1 7/16 diameter by 3 3/8 long)


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## blockhead (May 5, 2009)

Sure thing Justin. Now, if I could just do that to myself. lol Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## Chriskmb5150 (Dec 23, 2009)

Motor pics


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

Check out Grainger.com


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## justinwdemoss (Jun 22, 2010)

Just paid for the Delta motor from Chris in Waco a few minutes ago. I'll consider it a Christmas-to-me gift. I will update this topic when the motor arrives and I still it!

Thanks a lot Chris! - Going from 1 hp to 1 /34 hp should be fun!


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## blockhead (May 5, 2009)

Good choice Justin! Great deal as well. Good luck with it and look forward to the update.


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## justinwdemoss (Jun 22, 2010)

Well, I got the motor from Chris in Texas. I got it installed with a new power cord to handle the amps needed. Since then, I have almost finished the new mobile base cabinet for the saw. It really is humming along. Thanks to everyone that gave input on this project. I will post pictures of the whole thing on my shop. I have to finish the overhead dust collection and hood, add a rail and stile cabinet door with peg board panel, and install the Delta T2 fence that was under the tree at Christmas. I think this is really turning into a nice saw and the extra 3/4 hp from Chris's motor is great!


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## blockhead (May 5, 2009)

Good deal, glad to hear it worked out for you. Look forward to seeing those pics.


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## Chriskmb5150 (Dec 23, 2009)

Good to hear, Justin. Sounds like you're building up a nice saw there. Enjoy.


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