# Clear top coat on painted surfaces, Can I do it?



## siouxdawgs0409 (Dec 5, 2009)

I have a board that I painted with some latex paint. I am putting a color laser printed "decal" on the top of it with some spray adhesive. Now the question is can I put any sort of top clear coat over the top to protect the decals from abuse? I guess the problem is that I feel I could use an oil based top coat on the decal to keep the colors from running but I feel I need to use a waterbased top coat on the latex paint. So does anyone know if water based top coats would cause the ink to run on the laser color decal on paper or if the oil based top coat would cause any problems being applied on latex paint?
Thanks


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## nailbanger2 (Oct 17, 2009)

Perhaps some shellac?


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## siouxdawgs0409 (Dec 5, 2009)

How durable is shellac? It will not be out in the rain but may get a little moisture from time to time. It is being used on an outdoor game set. Will have bags full of corn tossed onto them. So I am trying to keep the decal from getting to sctratched from the tossed corn bags. Making a set of corn hole boards if you know what those are.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

actually shellac is not very durable, especially out side, and is not very abrasion resistant, also I would be concerned about it dissolving the color on the decal, shellac is a alcohol base and it can damage printed items very easily, if it were me, I would look to one of the pour on finishes, like http://www.save-on-crafts.com/enlikit8o8ys.html

which i think is available at Lowe's as I recall, its used alot in decoupage which is exactly what you are doing , and doesn't distort photos or printed items, like a water based or other solvent base would, and is about as weather proof and abrasion proof as it gets…not cheap , and not super easy but it works well, even a spray lacquer can distort and smear printed material, especially laser, printing, we use a trick for carving, where we make laser copies or any printer that uses a toner, to make copies of the pattern, then lay them face down on the wood and wipe the back of the paper to wet , and it will transfer the pattern to the wood, meaning it is dissolving the ink… good luck


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## live4ever (Feb 27, 2010)

Tabletop epoxy? Overkill?


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

.>>>>>>>>Tabletop epoxy? Overkill?<<<<<<<<<<,

an alternative you KNOW works ,


> ?


???? please advise


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## live4ever (Feb 27, 2010)

I've never used it, but it's the stuff commonly used for bartops etc., and I've seen folks put photos or newspaper clippings under it. I'm not sure if it would be the same as the Lowe's product you were referring to, Charles, but I think it would be similar to the product you linked.

Here is one particular brand…
http://www.shopmaninc.com/kk121.html

Oh, I should clarify - I posed my response before yours popped up Charles so my "tabletop epoxy? overkill?" statement wasn't directed at your post…


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

It's great to have *free* advise from an expert like Charles 30 plus years and lots of finished outstanding work under his belt.


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

Look up Decoupage on the internet. The people that do that have it to a science. Arm-R Seal from General finishes is very hard, or a marine grade sealer. Use either semi or gloss they are harder. You can use oil based over water but not the other way around. Do a test piece to see what happens. If you get a spray on poly and spray one coat over the decal there is less of a chance of smearing than apply the arm-r-seal. remember to sand between coats and sand the paint lightly before applying sealer. If the decal isn't to intricate can you just paint it on instead of using the decal. Post a picture if you can to get a better idea of what you are doing.


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## live4ever (Feb 27, 2010)

Just to reiterate again, my post was in no way directed at Charles'. I was essentially saying "How about tabletop epoxy? Would that be overkill?"

NOT

"Charles, you're recommending tabletop epoxy? Isn't that overkill??"


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## hObOmOnk (Feb 6, 2007)

I have used waterborne polyurethane finishes over printed materials attached to wood.
We made some bar tops covered with wine and beer labels.

Cheap to test before you commit…


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

live4ever, it s basically the same thing, just the envirolite is usually cheaper, as its a polymer, or better put its basically a polyester resin like used in auto body filler , and again its easy to find, Lowe's, most craft stores, have it, I have used it numerous time's, if I were doing a bar top or similar then I would go to the more expensive epoxies, yes its over kill no doubt, but it works and I'm not aware of anything else that does in this situation, even a glue size would distort the decal , and if the decal were vinyl or other , the shellac or lacquer would melt it, and the glue or water based would not hold.. so its a " darned if you do darned if you don't thing: , I was hoping someone knew of an alternative, I actually , playing around , used some mdf, and did some Faux painting on it, ( grained and made it look like marble" then did the epoxy stuff, and I have to tell you, you would have to look a dozen times to know it wasn't marble, the reason I even share this, is well…lf you would like marble counter-tops or a table top, lets just call it a " fun family project" , and it saves a ton, the polymer coating again is cheaper, so I used it for the base coat to get the paint covered and then sanded it back smooth then did one last coat with the epoxy.. to add more durability..


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

hobo, I havent tried that ,but its worth a shot, but it depends on the ink used in the label or decal… I would also suggest a good heavy paper


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

arm r seal may be an suggestion as well, all sound reasonable, I will be anxious to see how this comes out, its all great information , oh yea live 4 ever… no issue taken my friend, we are all learning here, again I hope someone here has a good solution… im certainly open…


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## Johnny_Yuma (Nov 29, 2009)

How about a bar top varnish, or a marine varnish.


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

if things is painted with an mineralmixed colour you can both use a mineralbased lack and 
the waterbased lack
but if the colour is on waterbase you can´t use a mineralbased lack on the top
I garantie you will have to start all over again

Dennis


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## siouxdawgs0409 (Dec 5, 2009)

Well decoupage seems what I am trying to do. Never knew there was a name for it! I do have some ARM R SEAL that I used on a previous project. I am not home right now, can anyone tell me if that was water or oil based? Cause the finish that ARM R SEAL leaves is the outcome I am looking for, hard and durable.

WSEAND Are you saying that I should apply the spray on poly over the decal to help keep it from smearing since the spray on will not "rub" the decal like the brush will when applying the ARM R SEAL?


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

arm r seal is basically an oil base, with lots of good resins and stuff, the issue here isn't the paint or the wood, its the decal, and better put the ink, and if its going to disturb it, as well as the paper, the easiest and most economical way will be the arm r seal, but being unsure iof its reaction to the paper and the ink, I suggest you do a test, anything water base could wrinkle and distort the paper, depending on the paper and how well its secured, take a sheet of plain printer paper and wet it and you will get my point, arm r seal being oil based will not react perhaps as much as water, but again, you have to test … before diving in the deep end, let us know how it does


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## Magnum (Feb 5, 2010)

I'm with hobomonk on the water based poly.

I've done it a number of times on small and larger projects. All but one where a Latex Base Painted surface. I Sparingly used LePages Carpenters glue (White Glue) to affix the paper items to the Latex Base Surface and a Hard Rubber Roller to make sure they were evenly adhered and Flat. The other one was a Bar top Stained with Minwax Oil Base Stain, also Beer Labels, white glue, and Oil Based Poly over. No Problems.

Allowed an hour or so for glue drying then Brush applied Flecto or Varathane Water Based Satin Poly over that. Usually three coats with 000 Steel Wool "Rub Down" between Coats. WELL Vacummed between Rub Downs.

HOWEVER…All of the Items I glued down had a somewhat more substantial "Face" material on them and I really can't say how Colored Lazer Ink will react to the Poly, having never used that. My "Gut" tells me it will Run or Bleed out somewhat.

As Charles has said it's Definetely worth a try on a Sample piece to see if a reaction does take place. I rember from my Drafting and Art days that we used a Spray Fixative over the Paper Product to seal it. Can't remember the name of it, bought at a Drafting/Art Supply Store.

Hop this is of some help.

Rick


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

Yes that was my intent on the spray to both give it a light coat and the keep from smearing when being wiped on. Actually, I have used hairspray, the aerosol kind, to seal it first but wouldn't recommend it. It was for a tic-tac-toe toss board thingy. Good luck and post some pics if possible.


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## siouxdawgs0409 (Dec 5, 2009)

Well after some test runs I have decided to use the water base polycrilic. It seemed to dry the most clear on my white board between that and the arm r seal. I simply affixed the decal with some glue all, wiped up the excess glue with warm water, being careful not to rub the decal to hard or it starts to turn to a wet pulp. Leave that dry for awhile and brush a coat of the poly over and then layer up with coats. I did end up getting some artists brushes and painting on two of the decals with some acrylic paint. I will post some pictures once I get the project complete.


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

Excellent, Can't wait to see some pics.


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## siouxdawgs0409 (Dec 5, 2009)

It seems I always do things a little harder than needed. I could of just slopped some paint on the boards and ready to play but, no, I got to take it a little further and make it not so simple. Well the good thing is they will make good garage wall decoration when not in use!


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

Not a bad thing you are doing, make it what you want. I do the same thing, I just want to make it the best I can and make it last. This site would be useless if everyone did the minimal and was happy with mediocre.


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## siouxdawgs0409 (Dec 5, 2009)

Finally got them all finished up. Take a look here.

http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/ab222/descout/102_0548.jpg


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

Those are very cool they came out great looking.


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## Dennisgrosen (Nov 14, 2009)

looks great 
like pro. work
Dennis


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## NathanAllen (Oct 16, 2009)

Dirty pool, too slick; you better let your guests know that a toe hit can result in a dinger on those cornhole boards.

Just kidding, those look great.


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## siouxdawgs0409 (Dec 5, 2009)

Everyone thought the same thing until they played on them. Really dont notice the slickness. They worked great.


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