# Scraper vs Plane?



## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

Once again, I've come to draw from the well of wisdom.

I've been practicing truing up 1 to 2 inch sides with hand planes n such and getting better at it…so that's good news.

However, often times I come so very close and see like half the hair strand of gap on the side i'm truing up. But when I plane further I tend to do more damage than good. Because of this I have to plane more to correct and loose more wood. This has been very frustrating.

So the question: If I am that close to the end, can I use scraper to flatten the edge…has anyone tried?

Thanks, Everyone!!

PS: I know I have to keep practicing but that aside…


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

I think it would be much harder to true that last little bit with a scraper. Scrapers barely remove material and there is nothing to keep it flat. Add to that the flexibility of the scraper and you're probably not even taking a flat pass.

I'd suggest keeping at it with the plane. When I just need to remove light cuts in a specific area, I will use a block plane set for a very light shaving. You might also consider dedicating a plane just for squaring edges and make a fence for it that you hold flush to the face. Then when you get a full width shaving down the entire board, you know it's square.

Another alternative that I would opt for over a scraper would be a fine rasp.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

If it feels smooth, it is smooth. Don't fret too much over straightedge readings, but trust what you see.


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## Sarahsliefie (Jan 14, 2016)

Depends on you. I personally have a smoothing plane (#3) that is always set so fine that I can not tell the difference between passes untell I make several. and I like to use that. but a lot of people have a solid skill with the card scraper. I say it is up to what you want to learn.


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## HornedWoodwork (Jan 28, 2015)

When I edge joint by hand, I know I am going to make a mistake, so I choose the mistake I want. First I make as few passes with the planer as possible to reduce the tendency to take the edge out of square, second I concentrate the majority of the passes on the middle of the boards. This way I am sure that the edges will meet nicely and if I don't have a perfect joint, I have at least made a "spring joint" which means I can close it with clamping pressure and it is actually less likely to open over time. I would not recommend a card scraper, it's poorly suited to what you want to do.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Olde School way? Scrap piece of window glass. Freshly cut straight edge. Either pull or push, works either way. There is no flex to this, just push or pull tilted in the direction you are going. Edge getting dull? Cut a fresh one, and carry on….

IF the piece has molded curves? match them with the cut on the glass. Had a shop a long time ago….there were a few windows getting broken from the neighborhood's ball players. I'd even repair the broken window(s) just to get another decent piece of glass to scrape with.

I do use a hand plane as well. I have a couple with straight edges to their irons. I have a light that shines across the piece, when it all shines back at me the same way, piece is smoothed and flat enough.


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

Thanks, everyone for the replies. it's awesome to be able to see the possibilities…will go n experiment some more.


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

I love card scrapers. I no longer sand. I scrape. Better and faster finish. Make one out of an old hand saw blade. Better steel. And yes, I think it is proper to follow up planing by scraping.


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

> I love card scrapers. I no longer sand. I scrape. Better and faster finish. Make one out of an old hand saw blade. Better steel. And yes, I think it is proper to follow up planing by scraping.
> 
> - SirIrb


so you plane then scrape? even for prepping sides for glue jointing?


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## shampeon (Jun 3, 2012)

There's no need to scrape glued faces. Scraping is done in lieu of sanding, or for dealing with wood that's difficult to plane (highly figured wood, reversing grain, knots).


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

Even if you could improve the squareness a little with a scraper, it would be hard not to create some peaks and valleys in the direction you are scraping in, so you'd make it less flat.

Basically you just need more practice. I'm still not perfect at edge jointing, but if I wrap my fingers from the hand guiding the plane under to slide along the wood gently then I can do a pretty decent job. I just need more practice too.


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## Timmy2Hands (Oct 5, 2015)

When I edge plane and I'm getting close to my final dimension, I back the iron off until it no longer cuts, then I sneak it back down until it takes a very very light cut and finally I work down to the line. That adjustment wheel is there for a reason and should be used.


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## JeffP (Aug 4, 2014)

if this is about prepping for edge glueing, I would think that some sort of a jig to be used with the plane might be advantageous.

Something sort of "shooting board" like such that you can make use of the fact that not only the sole of a plane, but also the sides are flat. The sides of a well adjusted plane would be very accurately at 90 degrees to the sole/iron.

Just thinking out loud, but seems like this could use some of the same advantages that the architecture of a powered jointer makes use of to get a true 90 degree and very straight edge on a board.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Best way to joint two edges (or more..) is to clamp them together, like closing up a book. Plane all the edges at once…the unfold like opening a book. All edges will maych their neighbors. makes doing a panel glue up a lot less stessfull…. to the one holding the glue bottle.

A LONG bodied plane will give a straighter edge than a short smoother ever could. That is why they are called Jointer Planes. About anything over 20" long will do. Bear down on the front for the start, shift that pressure to the rear as you go along. the main reason for the fingers over the side of a plane is to help register to the board being planed. You can feel if the plane tilts to either side, and helps keep things centered on the iron's cutting edge.


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

> There s no need to scrape glued faces. Scraping is done in lieu of sanding, or for dealing with wood that s difficult to plane (highly figured wood, reversing grain, knots).
> 
> - shampeon


so sanding and scraping can be substitute for each other?

going back to my original question, i was referring to truing up the surface in preparation for gluing


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

Scrape finished/almost finished surfaces.


> I love card scrapers. I no longer sand. I scrape. Better and faster finish. Make one out of an old hand saw blade. Better steel. And yes, I think it is proper to follow up planing by scraping.
> 
> - SirIrb
> 
> ...


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

that's exactly what i was afraid of….



> Even if you could improve the squareness a little with a scraper, it would be hard not to create some peaks and valleys in the direction you are scraping in, so you d make it less flat.
> 
> Basically you just need more practice. I m still not perfect at edge jointing, but if I wrap my fingers from the hand guiding the plane under to slide along the wood gently then I can do a pretty decent job. I just need more practice too.
> 
> - Tim


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

will give that a try….been practicing and hitting a wall…lol



> Scrape finished/almost finished surfaces.
> 
> I love card scrapers. I no longer sand. I scrape. Better and faster finish. Make one out of an old hand saw blade. Better steel. And yes, I think it is proper to follow up planing by scraping.
> 
> ...


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

for thinner edges i guess i can do that on my shooting board…but if i'm doing edge gluing that's 1+ inches thick, then I'd need to do that on a proper vise that can hold that, right?

as for shifting pressures, I forget that n maybe there in lies my problem…after all, all it needs is one bad shaving to make a bad difference.



> Best way to joint two edges (or more..) is to clamp them together, like closing up a book. Plane all the edges at once…the unfold like opening a book. All edges will maych their neighbors. makes doing a panel glue up a lot less stessfull…. to the one holding the glue bottle.
> 
> A LONG bodied plane will give a straighter edge than a short smoother ever could. That is why they are called Jointer Planes. About anything over 20" long will do. Bear down on the front for the start, shift that pressure to the rear as you go along. the main reason for the fingers over the side of a plane is to help register to the board being planed. You can feel if the plane tilts to either side, and helps keep things centered on the iron s cutting edge.
> 
> - bandit571


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

thanks!



> Scrape finished/almost finished surfaces.
> 
> I love card scrapers. I no longer sand. I scrape. Better and faster finish. Make one out of an old hand saw blade. Better steel. And yes, I think it is proper to follow up planing by scraping.
> 
> ...


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

> When I edge plane and I m getting close to my final dimension, I back the iron off until it no longer cuts, then I sneak it back down until it takes a very very light cut and finally I work down to the line. That adjustment wheel is there for a reason and should be used.
> 
> - Timmy2Hands


gotta remember that this is an option…thanks!


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

I did make a shooting board and ofcourse all these things are at experimental level for me…



> if this is about prepping for edge glueing, I would think that some sort of a jig to be used with the plane might be advantageous.
> 
> Something sort of "shooting board" like such that you can make use of the fact that not only the sole of a plane, but also the sides are flat. The sides of a well adjusted plane would be very accurately at 90 degrees to the sole/iron.
> 
> ...


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

> for thinner edges i guess i can do that on my shooting board…but if i m doing edge gluing that s 1+ inches thick, then I d need to do that on a proper vise that can hold that, right?
> 
> Don't really NEED a proper vise, one can just add a couple c clamps, one on each end, with the edge to be jointed up. Then you can attach this sammich to the bench by clamping onto the c clamps on the ends. Maybe tack a cleat to prevent it sliding away? heck, you can even use the clamps you were going to use for the glue up to hold the sammich upright, and stable. Joint the boards, lay them down onto the clamps, and be ready to glue.
> 
> ...


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Sounds like your plane is set to a heavy shaving.
A jointer plane and or lightly set blade should get you there.
When getting down to it, make 1 or 2 passes and keep checking for square.

Shooting has already been mentioned.
Another possibility is to clamp a fence to your plane.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Lots of good tips here. Always lay out the pieces for a glue up, mark the boards to keep track, then bookend edges to be glued. It then doesn't matter if the edges are 90° to the face, they will mate perfectly when unfolded. But, they may not match down the length of the joint. I use a long straight edge to check the length while the boards are still clamped up. I want a gap of a few thou in the center, which easily pulls together when clamped, which holds the ends of the joint together. I use a flat blade edge, not cambered. As one mentioned, "sneak up" on cut depth. Even with rough surfaces I do this. Aim small miss small. Increase depth on rough surfaces, then reset to whisper thin as the surface smoothes, and add depth back in as needed. Final passes are like smoothing, maybe a thou thick.

For a single edge I use a Veritas magnetic Jointer Fence









Check for square and use blade skew to get 90°. This fence fits a Stanley or similar #4 to #8, and pops right on and off.


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

> Sounds like your plane is set to a heavy shaving.
> A jointer plane and or lightly set blade should get you there.
> When getting down to it, make 1 or 2 passes and keep checking for square.
> 
> ...


that may be…i tend to be heave handed and set the iron to cut too deep…will chk that

that brings me to another question. it seems like an overkill to be using no6 or no7 on a piece that about 1 inch wide and 10 inches long. was there a rule of thumb in relation of board to plane-length ratio?

thanks!


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

> Lots of good tips here. Always lay out the pieces for a glue up, mark the boards to keep track, then bookend edges to be glued. It then doesn t matter if the edges are 90° to the face, they will mate perfectly when unfolded. But, they may not match down the length of the joint. I use a long straight edge to check the length while the boards are still clamped up. I want a gap of a few thou in the center, which easily pulls together when clamped, which holds the ends of the joint together. I use a flat blade edge, not cambered. As one mentioned, "sneak up" on cut depth. Even with rough surfaces I do this. Aim small miss small. Increase depth on rough surfaces, then reset to whisper thin as the surface smoothes, and add depth back in as needed. Final passes are like smoothing, maybe a thou thick.
> 
> For a single edge I use a Veritas magnetic Jointer Fence
> 
> ...


this reminds me of this…guess same concept


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

For a board 10" long? Use a Jack plane ( 14" long) with a straight edge to the iron.

They do make an 11" Junior Jack plane as well. Stanely #5-1/4, or like my Millers Falls No.11.

Jointing: i have used that 24" long Stanley #31 that is in the avatar. I also have a few planes in the 22" length. I also have a Stanley #6 ( 18" long) and a Stanley #5-1/2( 15" long) Most of the above use an iron at least 2-3/8" wide.

The Millers Falls #14 and the Stanley #5 use the same width as a Stanley #4 smooth plane, but the 5-1/4 (or #11) use a 1-3/4" wide iron like a #3. It is also a bit lighter in weight.


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## shampeon (Jun 3, 2012)

After getting the hang of my planes and how to adjust the cut, I can basically joint a 90 degree edge with a square and one of my jointer planes. Which isn't to say that a jointer fence isn't a good idea, but I can see now that I'd probably rarely use it.

There's no replacement for time spent doing something. Get some 4/4 pine, cut a 4' length, and bring it all square. Take as much time as you need, checking frequently with a square/straight edge to get a sense of how your plane takes off material.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

> I love card scrapers. I no longer sand. I scrape. Better and faster finish. Make one out of an old hand saw blade. Better steel. And yes, I think it is proper to follow up planing by scraping.
> 
> - SirIrb


You should be getting a better surface off of a smoother plane than you get from a scraper. Scrapers are mainly used in areas where a plane would cause tearout. Basically, the lower the angle, the better the finish. However, that results in a greater risk of tearout, so it's a balancing act. Just as how a higher angle plane will result in less tearout (but more force) with a less smooth finish.


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

> For a board 10" long? Use a Jack plane ( 14" long) with a straight edge to the iron.
> 
> They do make an 11" Junior Jack plane as well. Stanely #5-1/4, or like my Millers Falls No.11.
> 
> ...


I do have a Jack plane 14" long so i'll try that. been trying to use mainly the #4


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

> After getting the hang of my planes and how to adjust the cut, I can basically joint a 90 degree edge with a square and one of my jointer planes. Which isn t to say that a jointer fence isn t a good idea, but I can see now that I d probably rarely use it.
> 
> There s no replacement for time spent doing something. Get some 4/4 pine, cut a 4 length, and bring it all square. Take as much time as you need, checking frequently with a square/straight edge to get a sense of how your plane takes off material.
> 
> - shampeon


so frustrating when all i need is a shave of 1/2 the hair thickness on one spot, then the other area is off…


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

Happened to all of us I think. You can make your own version the Veritas fence by attaching a strip to a piece of wood maybe 5-6 inches wide and clamp that to your plane.

It's still better just to practice.


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## Timmy2Hands (Oct 5, 2015)

Here is another option for you.

In this picture I'm edge jointing a thin board, but this technique can be used on any thickness or length as long as it's not thicker than your plane blade is tall in this orientation.

This technique comes from Christopher Schwarz.
Elevate the panel on a scrap board and hold it against a stop and let the edge hang over the scrap board. Trim the edge with the plane laying flat on the bench top. It works extremely well and keeps the edge of a thin panel 90 degrees.









For thicker boards you should use a thinner scrap piece under it, just enough to get it off the benchtop.


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

> Here is another option for you.
> 
> In this picture I m edge jointing a thin board, but this technique can be used on any thickness or length as long as it s not thicker than your plane blade is tall in this orientation.
> 
> ...


this functions like a shooting board, right?


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

> Happened to all of us I think. You can make your own version the Veritas fence by attaching a strip to a piece of wood maybe 5-6 inches wide and clamp that to your plane.
> *
> It s still better just to practice*.
> 
> - Tim


more practice seem to be the best solution, it's only that i want to be practicing properly and not practice bad habits over n over…being new to this, don't know how to gauge myself


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

#4 is what I'd use for a 10" long edge….


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## paratrooper34 (Apr 27, 2010)

nmssis, keep practicing. That is going to get you the farthest and help you to develop muscle memory and consistency. For me, when I started jointing edges, I tried a couple of different ways and finally settled on the same way every time. I use my #8 jointer on any edge joint except very small pieces. By using that tool and practicing with it, I am now able to get straight, flat, and square joints every time. If I can do it, anyone can.

Lastly, stay away from using scrapers and pieces of glass on your edge joints. You will have nothing but problems going that route.


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## Timmy2Hands (Oct 5, 2015)

nmssis - Yes, for all intents and purposes it works like a shooting board, but can run the entire length of your bench if you need it to. It also works well on short pieces as I show in the picture.
Also if you need to hit just a couple of places on the board this technique helps.

The advise that I agree with the most in this thread though is practice, practice, practice.
And don't get caught up chasing thousanths of an inch. If you are edge jointing to glue two boards together and one is off by just a short and curley, the glue and clamping pressure will make up for it no problem.


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

Thanks for all the feedback. See, i had no idea that if I'm off by short sliver of thousandths of an inch, that i should go and use extra pressure with the clamps…

How about if the sides that I'm gluing are rather thick (1 + inches) and cannot use the pressure from the clamps have them meet…just keep on shaving carefully?


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Concern over a sliver of a thou? Are you a machinist by trade? Wood moves more than that, from one day to the next, each time it's worked.


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## Timmy2Hands (Oct 5, 2015)

I don't think you're going to have any real problems after gluing and clamping. Besides there are later steps of flattening and sanding that are going to take care of any and all of those little imperfections.
Wood is not perfect and niether are you, don't over think it.


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

> Concern over a sliver of a thou? Are you a machinist by trade? Wood moves more than that, from one day to the next, each time it s worked.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


lol…whatever "shop" experience i've had, yes…mainly from working with machine parts n such. Woodworking is all new to me.



> I don t think you re going to have any real problems after gluing and clamping. Besides there are later steps of flattening and sanding that are going to take care of any and all of those little imperfections.
> Wood is not perfect and niether are you, don t over think it.
> 
> - Timmy2Hands


will give it a go….heck, if the price of harwoods were less expensive then it would be no brainer.

Thanks again!


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

> more practice seem to be the best solution, it s only that i want to be practicing properly and not practice bad habits over n over…being new to this, don t know how to gauge myself
> - nmssis


Don't worry about making mistakes, like mentioned above just check often with a square and you'll start to get a feel for square and how to correct but not overcorrect.


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## nmssis (Sep 14, 2015)

Thanks, Everyone!


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