# Is there such thing as a Wide Kerf Hand Saw?



## ReadABook (Nov 7, 2013)

Hello Lumber Jocks

I have a somewhat esoteric question to ask you all: Is there such thing as a wide kerf hand saw?

I know there there are wide kerf circular saws, but what about hand saws? I've been looking around online and cannot find anything about it.

For some context, I teach woodworking workshops to kids and having a wide kerf hand saw would be the best thing ever for a project I want to teach. Unfortunately, I cannot let my middle schoolers use a table or circular saw so we are stuck with hand saws.

I actually just made two of my own "wide kerf hand saws" by taking a generic Husky tool box saw with a wooden handle and sawing out the center to fit two blades. It works great but I need a bunch and economically and time wise, its not the most efficient.

Any suggestions would be welcome. Thank you so much!

Best,
-Reid


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## mtenterprises (Jan 10, 2011)

Why not reset the teeth to make the cut a bit wider giving you a wider kerf so the blade body wikk bind less.
MIKE


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## 12strings (Nov 15, 2011)

Don't think I can help, except to say even at 1/8" thick, it would be really hard to push through wood…so I suspect you won't find anything thicker…


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

You could re-set the teeth to as wide as a saw set would allow but outside of that I don't think there was ever a hand saw made with an extra thick plate. Basically - what MT said.


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## TobyC (Apr 7, 2013)

Tell us exactly what you are doing and how wide "wide" is, so we have something to work with in answering your question.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

Resetting the teeth to make a wider kerf should be any harder than 2 saws in one handle. It takes a certain amount of power to remove 1/8 inch of wood no matter what you use to remove it.


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

The problem with adding more set is the saw is going to wander more in the cut. I agree it would help a lot if you can tell us more about what you're trying to do. Usually there's an alternate solution someone can come up with.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Just for some education for us ****************************************, why would you "need" a wide kerf on a project? What is the goal?


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## ReadABook (Nov 7, 2013)

Hey everyone

Thank you so much for all the responses!

To give you more information about the project, we are building simplified clones of the CubeBot.

Its a posable wooden robot that has holes drilled though it and all the limbs and parts are connected with elastic chords. The tension from the elastic and the notches in the wood allow the robot to be put in different poses. Its basically a very fancy version of a simple wood toy I have seen around but still dont know the name of.

I taught this project over the summer and it was super fun for all the kids but the notch cutting process was the biggest problem. You can see a simple photo walk through of our "WoodBots" here. To create the notches, I had the kids just make multiple cuts with a normal hand saw and then file, rip, or cut out the excess stuff in the middle. While all of the kids loved the project, a lot of the notches were just simple not functional.

My goal in finding/making a wide kerf hand saw is to streamline this process so that its just one cut and as accurate as possible. I am working with even younger kids now, 5th and 6th graders, so the only power tools we are using are drills.

To respond to some of your comments:

Mike and chrisstef: I am sorry but I am not sure what you mean when you say reset the teeth.

Tim: I agree with you on the wander but luckily what they are cutting is the end of a 3/4" square dowel so Im hopeful that because its a relatively quick and simple cut, it wont wander too much. And really, even if it does wander a little, it will probably come out better than the last time we did this.

Grandpa: I figured out today that you are right! It is a little difficult, which is my primary concern for this method for younger kids.

Now that you know my goal and context, if there are any ideas you have on how to do this, I am all ears.

And once again, thank you so much for the responses! Active message boards like these are why I <3 the internet.

Best,
-Reid


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

I don't think 1/8" is really feasible for a handsaw think how thick and heavy the blade would have to be. Your double saw blade is probably the best you can do other than making 2 separate cuts. I think if the "dado handsaw" was feasible it would exist somewhere and is precisely why the plow plane was invented.


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## darinS (Jul 20, 2010)

My first thought was maybe using a router plane. However, on a 3/4" piece of wood, I doubt it would be very stable.

Could you cut down each side of your notch and then use a coping say to take out the middle? You could always file or sand to get the notch to the proper depth and/or width.

There are other ways as well using power tools, but since you are doing this with kids, I figured you wanted to stay with hand tools. Safety thing you know.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

Maybe what you should use is a very fine kerf saw and make two cuts that are close together and then knock out the wood that's left between the two.


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## TobyC (Apr 7, 2013)

Square rasp.


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## kaerlighedsbamsen (Sep 16, 2013)

How about someting like number 4 in this picture?
It says that it is awailable 1/8" wide. I suppose this is the closest you get to a hand saw that wide..


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## rum (Apr 28, 2011)

Still not sure how wide you really need it?

I've done similar up to maybe 1/4" by stacking hacksaw blades. Some of the hacksaws I have have longer pins so you can stack a lot on them - but they're all older don't know about any new ones.


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## Danpaddles (Jan 26, 2012)

What about making the kerf cut on the edge of full boards on your table saw when the little crumb suckers are not around, and let the kids cut off the individual pieces, from that board?

Could you get away with a handheld power jig saw? Make a holding fixture for the small pieces, do it right and the blade would be completely buried. Or make a fixture that mostly surrounds the work piece, then run the little pieces into a well guarded band saw?

Or- mount a jig saw upside down, sorta like a router in a table, then let your well designed, guided fixture hold the parts while the little beggars find other ways to main themselves.

Sorry if I am offending the kids. By this time on a Friday, I am just about kidded out!


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## Kryptic (Nov 8, 2013)

from a question of a hand saw being wide kerf to an answer of a file being wide kerf ?

makes me wonder if anyone read the question, or if the person who wrote the question,….I'm confused

Of course there wide kerf hand saws, how else would someone cut a limb off a tree


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## TobyC (Apr 7, 2013)

So you want kids to rip cut these with a crosscut tree saw!! Really?


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## mtenterprises (Jan 10, 2011)

I was just going to suggest what rum said. Get hack saw blades with the biggest teeth available and stack 2 or 3 together to get the kerf needed. If the pins in the hacksaw are too short drive them out and use a suitable bolt.
MIKE


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## knockknock (Jun 13, 2012)

You might make the notches better, by drilling holes where the notches will be, before you cut the wood into the individual pieces. Then the sawing and filing for the notch, would be to just open up the end, as the base of the notch would be the drilled hole.


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## wiwildcat (Jan 10, 2013)

How about a hacksaw with a rod blade in it. Usually they cut a kerf from 1/16 to 3/32 wide. 
m.mscdirect.com/mobileweb/product_detail?id=00092635&searchTerm=&hasRestrictedParts=false

http://m.mscdirect.com/mobileweb/product_detail?id=00092635&searchTerm=&hasRestrictedParts="false":http://


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## ReadABook (Nov 7, 2013)

!!!

So many ideas!

To get back to a few of you:

bondogaposis and firefighterontheside: Two cuts with a normal saw and knocking/pulling out the left over wood between the cuts is method we did before. It works well for adults but not so much with the kids.

darinS: We just got a router table, and while we dont have any small 1/8" wide bits for it, I was wondering if I could build a jig so they kids could safely and easily run the end of their wood over it. Its just harder because its the end of the square dowel so its such a small surface area. Also, there are 32 kids, and only one router table, so figuring out that bottle neck would be something.

TobyC: We've done some pretty fun rasping activities but because its soft wood and the end of the square dowel, the end usually ends up getting mangled by the kids.

kaerlighedsbamsen: THAT SOUNDS PERFECT! I have to find one of those!!!

rum and wiwildcat: I was hoping for 1/8" inch ideally, and that is a really really good idea Im gonna check out when I get to the hardware store! I will also definitely check out a rod blade. That also seems like a really good lead.

Danpaddles: Interesting ideas, and while I have taught middle schoolers to use small jig saws, Im keeping them out of this class. And no offense taken, these are middle school kids, so sometimes they really are a bunch of lil buggers.

knockknock: If Im reading your comment correctly, I think thats an interesting idea. The hole would provide a guide almost of where to make your two cuts with a normal saw. The kids still have trubb with the two cut thing but maybe that could help them out. Will have to try.

Seriously, everyone, this is the f*cking coolest. So many great ideas! Thank you! I am going to try a few of them out this Tuesday and post back next week. So far Im going to look into stacking hack saws, rod blades, and edge floats if I can find any.

Aaaand…this got me thinking, maybe a Dremel, installed on a table, with bit pointing up (like a router table), set with obvious safety precautions, could also work? Basically a small router table, and if its jigged correctly, it could be a fairly easy operation….will also report back on this if I can build it!

Thanks again everyone!

Best regards,
-Reid


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## ReadABook (Nov 7, 2013)

Actually nix that Dremel idea, dont know why I thought it would be as strong as a router…


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## 69BBNova (May 1, 2012)

Chainsaw…

Sorry, couldn't help myself.


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

Lee Valley and Lie Nielsen carry floats, neither are all that cheap as they are precision tools. For your project, I would think the stacked hacksaw blades is the best idea. It's basically what a saw rasp is, but you're getting the exact width you want. You could use reciprocating saw blades too and have your choice of rip or crosscut and you can get them with teeth shaped for wood instead of hacksaw blades being made for metal.


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Can the kids use these?


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## OggieOglethorpe (Aug 15, 2012)

What about trading the tool box saw:









For a back saw, with a reinforced back?


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

Not familiar with the edge float but it looks a lot like a jab saw used for drywall work. The cheaper saws are a little wider I think but they do look like that edge float pictured.


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## kaerlighedsbamsen (Sep 16, 2013)

Only happy to help. Let us know how it turned out!


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## Danpaddles (Jan 26, 2012)

Now that I think on this a little more- you could build a jig that would surround the part, and cover the blade. Use it on table saw, or a router table. Do it right, and none of the kids will have to learn to sign their name left handed. Unless of course they are BORN left handed. Oh you know what I mean.


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## ReadABook (Nov 7, 2013)

Hey Lumber Jocks

Happy holiday hangover. I just wanted to report back, for posterity, about the wide kerf saw/notch making problem you all have been so kind as to help me with.

As it stands, the rod blade on a hack saw is the best solution. There are however many thicknesses of rod blade, but one that Stanely makes is so far perfect. Unfortunately, I have been to 3 different NYC Home Despot's and can only find 4 of them which is a bummer for me. So I am also going to try double stacking the normal hacksaw blades and I think that will also work just fine.

As for the other ideas, the planar saw was to expensive, the dry wall knife/saw was too stabby and impossible to get cutting on the small surface area of the square dowel, and a few other saws I used were just to thin.

Thanks again everyone! Im excited to further develop this project and share it out as an Instructable sometime in 2014.

Best regards,
-Reid


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## mtenterprises (Jan 10, 2011)

If you have the Stanley product number order them online just type in Stanley and the number and you can see who sells for less. Then you can buy as many as you need as often as you need to.
MIKE


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