# Bench planes at the ready



## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Some of us have many, many planes and often multiples of the same type. From the perspective of completing a project, say a wall hung tool cabinet, how do you guys tune your duplicate bench planes for different operations.

My thoughts:

*Blocks*
-LA, adjustable mouth, thin shaving for end grain
-One ready for chamfering

*Smoothers*
-High angle frog or back bevel for tough grain
-4 1/2 to cover area quickly
-3 for smaller applications

*Jacks*
-strong camber to follow a scrub
-slight camber for general stock removal
-low angle for end grain and shooting board

*Jointers*
-general purpose flattening/jointing
-fence for long edge jointing (maybe)
-high angle (bevel up) for jointing tough grain

What else do you tune your bench planes for? So when they come off the shelf or out of the till they are ready to….....?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

You mention scrub, don't forget it.

Blocks, I like to have a normal and low angle. I have seen a few with a camber as well, (like a small jack).

I just made my #4 jack, but I think its going to be useful as well. For the few bucks a cheap #4 cost, it may be worth having around.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

I think that's a pretty respectable list. I use a standard angle block much more than a low angle; I prize the low angles more, though. I've never used a backbevel on a smoother. I tend to just use multiple #4s, each set to a thicker/thinner pass. I wouldn't leave out a scraper plane but it doesn't have to be a fancy one (#81 is my most used). I like to have a jack around with the frog set back and the bevel a little larger. I don't fuss with cambers too much, but I probably should. I don't own a luxurious BU jointer but I wish I did. I use the #8 for skew flattening and the #7 for jointing. As you probably remember, I spring the joint usually with the #3 or #4. Did we ever find out if I was describing that correctly?


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

The real reason I ask is because I I have 3 jointers and looking for another. One side of my conflicted brain says that is crazy. I was sharpening last night and wondering why have more than one jointer. So in my effort to rationalize, I assigned a couple to slightly different tasks and I have them tuned and ready to go…..

LN #7 for jointing
Veritas BU with fence for edge/square jointing
(same) Veritas BU that I can put a 50 degree iron in for tough grain

So, Al, do you tune your #8 in any way for skew flattening? Wider mouth and heavier cut? Is it tuned and at the ready for this purpose?

This may give me a functional reason to have that third jointer, other than I just like to have it.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Scott, I have 4. I decided to sell 2. Wait, I have 5. Who's crazier?


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Don, actions speak louder than words. You are an accomplished rescuer and restorer of neglected planes. I am not. I would expect you to have lots 'o planes. Me, do I really have a reason to have 4 jointers? Of the ones that you keep, are you going to tweek them for different purposes?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

So your looking for the sane answer. I can only give you justification for 2, and even that is a stretch. One with a fence and one without. I don't "spring" my glue UPS, so if you do, I guess you could add one more. See, you're not as crazy as Al thought.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^No, he is He's sexier than I thought at first, too. Scott, I just like jointers, so I can't see how you could have too many. On my #8, I just grind the bevel dead flat then knock off the corners a hair. I set it for a pretty light cut and just plan to be there a while. A delicate camber (RG-1) makes a lot of sense, too, but I'd have a hard time establishing it on the big #8 iron. If you want to spend mucho $$$, you could get the jig for your wet wheel.
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.
I tend to not enjoy really aggressive planing (scrub, etc.). I'd rather spend more time than more effort. I've got bad shoulders b/c LSU ortho operated on them. You won't get any argument from me about buying more jointers. In fact, both the BU and standard LN were really close to coming home with me. I can't buy any more planes until I finish my linen press and bench. Unless, of course, I need a new one for my linen press and bench construction


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

Jeez, Al, I hope you didn't get bad shoulders from improper use of your shoulder planes!


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Ba bum Pysssh (cymbal crash)!


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## Brohymn62 (Mar 23, 2012)

Every time I read a forum topic on planes I feel like I need to acquire more planes… i only have 4, a couple of #5's and a couple of block planes… but it all makes sense now!! I really do need more planes! Jointer is next on my list… thanks for the great insight!


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I have a very nice type 5 number 7 for sale. <wink>


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## jacob34 (Mar 14, 2012)

I have just purchased my first few planes but on principle I haft to say my opinion is that when you buy a tool your really practicing and refining your tool buying skills, so if your getting a plane for a purpose it is a squandering of a skill your developing to not buy another one and another one and well you get the point.

I am interested in seeing how this plays out as I will have multiple hand planes of the same type.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

I'm no help at all here. The till has one of each bench plane, and that's enough of a variable to allow slightly different configs of jacks, smoothers, jointers, etc. without harboring multiples of any given number.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^Smitty claims to have no duplicates. I am skeptical


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## mochoa (Oct 9, 2009)

Thats why I like Smitty, he is my kind of guy. The voice of reason amongst the planaholics. And since he has only one of each he has more of a variety, such as his numerous joinery planes(side rabbet planes and such).


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## jacob34 (Mar 14, 2012)

reason amongst planaholics hmmm is that possible? Isn't that kinda like a couple guys on the lake saying well if we stay out fishing all day our wives will be angry but if we only stay out most of the day they will only be upset.


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## derosa (Aug 21, 2010)

I don't really see the reason for multiples of the same type either. I've got two 4s from being given one after buying the first. The second is sharpened and tuned and untouched on the shelf. I've now got two 6s because the first wouldn't tune, turns out it was from the edge of the mouth not being beveled to match the angle of the frog from the factory. I will fix the issue at which point I will probably sell it and get something else. I only see the need to get the different types for the different purposes that they were designed for. The only way I would see an exception was if I could get different angles on a set of all of them to deal with figured wood.


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## mochoa (Oct 9, 2009)

True, true, Perhaps Smitty's addiction is just slightly different. He is probably scouring ebay on a daily basis for specific planes he doesn't own where as others seem to scout for good deal on any plane so they end up with multiple #5's and #4's.

Don, I like the description Scott has for you, "rescuer and restorer of neglected planes", makes it sound very noble.

Here is a radical idea guys, instead of multiple Jointers (for example) how about extra blades and chip breakers with different configurations? I know, not as fun as a whole new plane….


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## jacob34 (Mar 14, 2012)

I think our addiction will be cheaper and not as frustrating


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Okay, okay. In the interest of full disclosure, I have my dad's purple #4 that is essentially on static display. Along with a pristine Craftsman #5 from the 50s with decal. Those will go to my dad's shop someday, where the other bench is, because where there's a bench, there needs to be bench planes…

That said, Scott's OP asks how multiples are used. I just don't use multiples. :-( Now if he'd ask how to use the #5 and it's fractionals in different ways, I'd have input. Same as the #4 vs. #4 1/2. But alas…

I have the sickness just as much as many, but I've held to the bench plane series as much as possible so I can stretch my limited to $s into the joinery / block / specialty plane areas.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

With blade changes comes frog re-adjustments. I like to avoid frog readjustments.

I've said many times we all work different, so I like multiples if it means a different configuration, blade angle, or complete use (as I'm a #5 as a smoother and a jack). Even different levels of cambers for more aggressive jacks.

I think Smitty is one of the most talented woodworkers here, and if he doesn't have duplicates I know it's possible to do great work, but I'll always have dup's until Smitty teaches me better.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I just can't walk by a cheap plane. I admit it, I have a sickness.


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## mochoa (Oct 9, 2009)

Here is a survey question, maybe this deserves its own blog: When life gets more and more in the way of your shop time is the urge to buy a new tool even stronger?

I have a theory that the same instinct that drives woodworkers to make things is the same drive that makes us want to buy a new tool. I think the root of the issue is a new tool adds a new Skill or Capability which shop time also gives us. So while your at work researching and buying a new tool gives us that sense of accomplishment and skill development that shop time does. Conversely, when I get more time in the shop, I have less of a desire to buy a new tool…

I think it all goes back to our hunter gatherer instincts. Men need the satisfaction of killing something and dragging it home, whether it be a finished project or tool they scored a good price on which will help them complete that next project.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

I have a very, very hard time passing one by, too. Last cheapie I found was a #6, maybe a T15. Bought it, listed it on CL and ended up selling it to a fellow LJ that responded to the ad. The tool is getting used now, and that's better than having it on a shelf, collecting dust, in some dude's man-cave.

And thanks, Don. I actually think of my stuff as being pretty pedestrian compared to the finished work folks post here on LJs. Present company included!


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Don only has one of each plane, too. He's just "holding" the others for someone


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Also in full disclosure, Smit. I don't actually have planes set up differently. I just have duplicates that I need an excuse for.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

^lol, Al. You're on a roll today!


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Alright. I like Don's "sane" answer and Smit your comment is most helpful.

What about Jacks? I listed three set-ups for jacks:
-strong camber to follow a scrub
-slight camber for general stock removal
-low angle for end grain and shooting board

Would guys agree that there is a "sane" and functional reason to have three? No, Smitty? More Don? Al, you only have one jack that does all things?

Again, I find that when I am in the middle of a task I dont want to stop and switch out blades or adjust frogs. I'd like to pull a plane out of the till and have it optimized for a specific task. Surely, a lot of us have enough planes to pull this off.


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## NANeanderthal (Jun 2, 2011)

I had multiple planes, then ended up getting the Veritas low angle set with a few diff blades. After a while i gave my other planes to my buddy.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Scott, I have my 605 sharpened as a smoother, and yes I sometimes use it.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

For the scenario above, I have three jacks. #5 (heavy camber), #5 1/4 (mild camber, post-scrub/post-jack if needed because of its light weight) and the #62. The #5 1/2 has been kicked to the curb… haven't found a use for that thing in any practical sense.


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Interesting Smitty but didn't elaborate on the #62. Would you say the #62 is tuned for a special purpose? If so, how? What operation makes you think "Its time for the shiny 62?"


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

It's low angle… for… something… I guess…. 

You caught me.

It's shiny.

and

I haven't found it's special purpose yet. Too long for a smoother, not a great jack, quite honestly. Still figuring it out…


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

I am with you Smitty. I bought into the LN #62. I don't really know its optimal use and, right now, I feel kind of silly owning it.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I still say "because it's pretty" is good enough.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Three things confounding me with the #62

- There's no place for my extended index finger to rest. Very wierd, but an issue

- I find myself trying to hold the tote low to the sole of the plane, for no apparent reason

- I have the A2 iron from LN on it, and it's been hard to camber as much as I think I'd like it to be. So it's kinda straight across, and that's not very useful to me


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Smitty you are a man of strong principles and character. I can see you're in a dilemma. I think you netter send that 62 to me. My principals are not that strong.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Duly noted, Don! 

EDIT: Thought about, but only in passing, grinding off a #62 front and back to get closer to the #164 in length, for a LA smoother…


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

No argument at all with "because its pretty."

I am thinking about getting the first string ready for the game. Who plays what position and what preparation do they need.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

*WARNING: Purely Subjective Thought Ahead*

Okay, I'll bite. For benchwork, here's my absolute core:

2 jacks (one heavy camber and one with mild-to-moderate camber)
1 jointer (pick one, fettle and sharpen it, and learn how to use it without a fence)
2 smoothers (#4, of course, and a #2 for smaller footprint, just-want-to-get-that-tearout solution)

Shooting? 1. Whatever you want.
Block? 1. Whichever is your favorite.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

I bought my 64 because it's pretty. It is still pretty.


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## Dcase (Jul 7, 2010)

I may be the odd one out but I usually sharpen and set all my planes the same way. I have one #5 with a cambered iron and my Scrubs have heavy cambers but thats about it. My larger jointer planes get sharpened with a straight bevel and on my smoothing planes I just knock down the corners a little bit when honing.


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Smitty - no warning needed. This is all opinion and I value yours, Dons and others (I tolerate Al only because he's purdy). Our opinions may vary but your comment is exactly what I am looking for. I was wondering if someone had thought of something clever and would chime in with a comment such as:

"it is very handy to have a such and such plane fettled in such and such way so that when you perform such and such operation you don't have to switch out this and adjust that."


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

I posted before I read you comment Dan. Thanks.

Now I know you have more than one smoother. Do they have different assignments?

This may be beating a dead horse. I have six smoothers (two 3's, two 4's and two 4 1/2's) and I really only use one. But the crazy thing is that tempted to buy 164 or Veritas equivalent. If Smitty would just give me some inkling of a functional or operational reason it is needed then I could further feed my addiction. But alas, I guess I'll just use what wonderful tools I have. Bummer. :^)


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

I'm with you in spades, re: the #164, but I just can't find the reason beyond Al's. I thought the #62 would help me, but so far it hasn't. Stupid rational thought…


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

I'm thinking I just haven't hit the gnarly wood types that will benefit from the angle, but once I do, it'll be nothing less than a 38-degree bevel in said #164 that does the trick. Then I'll be in tall cotton…


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## Brit (Aug 14, 2010)

Dan I'm so glad you said you sharpen your jointer iron with a straight bevel. I've never seen the point of cambering it. To me adding a camber to a jointer iron is tantamount to admiting you can't use a jointer to square an edge. It isn't a camber that you need, it's practice.

Can someone help me down off my soapbox now please?

No hang on a minute! Scot why do you need a jack with a heavy camber and a jack with a light camber? You only need one bevel-down jack in my opinion. If you overlap your scrub passes, you won't end up with lots of deep valleys that need a heavily cambered jack.

Ok, you can help me down now.

HELLO - ANYONE?


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Thats all fine and good Andy but you just elimainated another reason to own more than one jack.

I don't put any camber into my blades except my scrub, jack and the tiniest bit in my smoother.


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

The result of this conversation is a bit of sadness. I have had a wonderful time acquiring planes but from an operational standpoint that is over. Unless I admit to collecting which I may. Still kind of a bummer.

The only plane that I feel I need is a moving fillister or equivalent.

OK - lets talk chisels! :^)


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Who to disagree with first?

ok, lets start with Andy. You may be right, but multiple degrees a camber can be used for more or less stock removal. Now you may be right, you don't NEED them, but for the cost of a Stanley #5 (typically less than $20) I'd say "why not". I don't use one after another, I use 1 or the other, depending the amount of stock that needs to be removed.

Next, I have found grain the the #62 has helped. My 604 is still my favorite smoother, but the #62 come in at #2. I use them for different grain. If you remember the blanket chest I made with the poplar top and oak trim, I had to use both to it them close enough for the scraper. It made we wish I had a 64. I will admit the 62 is a tad long for a smoother, but it worked.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

But Andy, I use my jointer on faces of boards too. And for that, a slight camber (in addition to relieved corners) keeps me from leaving plane tracks that I then have to remove w/ the smoother. Camber does serve a purpose in my world. And I can create straight edges on boards with it. 

Re: scrub vs cambered jack, my scrub is probably removing an eighth inch of material at a chop. Stepping down from that with the cambered jack (c-jack) makes sense and is effective without adding work IMO. Then hit it with the jointer and it's ready for smoothing. Just did it, pretty happy with the process and the results, especially when I had so much material to remove to get the boards in line.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Too many?? Not yet, still need a couple









like a spokeshave?









or maybe a "Skray-pah Plane"??


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## mochoa (Oct 9, 2009)

IMHO any plane that is goes across the grain needs a camber equal to the shaving you are planning on taking with it. Thats why a jointer needs a slight camber. The camber in jointing gives you a nice square edge when you use the center of the iron and you can make minor tweaks using different parts of the iron, it works great.

But then again, if you are someone who likes to get a glue joint by clamping two boards together and jointing the edges for a mirror fit you will need a straight iron for that task.

Smoothers are generally intended to go with the grain and dont need any camber especially if you are taking light passes.

Coarse to Fine and The Schwarz would say.


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## Brit (Aug 14, 2010)

This is a great thread Scot. I think it is really interesting how we all use our planes in different ways. I wonder if it has always been that way in years gone by. I guess it probably has.


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## Brit (Aug 14, 2010)

I would love to get everyone and their planes in a room with a bench and some wood so we could all try out each other's planes and compare the way they have all been sharpened. I think we would all learn a lot from it.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

^ t'would be an awesome event, especially if a certain someone brought their two-person labrynth game…


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

can the queen come to?


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## Brit (Aug 14, 2010)

I've been sitting here waiting to post my Buzzwire project, but I knew you guys wouldn't let me get away without posting a video of it. The upload is at 98% so it won't be long now chaps.


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## bhog (Jan 13, 2011)

I have 1 jointer ,1 jack 4 smoothers and 3 blocks.Im more of a blade change guy frog adjust,etc.I always took advantage of alot of the blades interchanging.Different angles diff blade not plane for me.If I had honey holes like The Great Bandito,or Don it may be different,but around me the stores are drunk with their prices.


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## woodworker59 (May 16, 2012)

Okay now I need clarification on some things mentioned here, I have one of each, with a couple exceptions from #3 to #7. I would like and 8 and would love a 2 but beyond that I figure I have the bases covered. now you guys have me thinking I may need a few more.. Would love to get a nice shoulder plane, and have been looking at a couple of older Clifton's.. Mine are a mish-mosh of Stanley's and Millers Falls. ( see pics) 
who was it that had a #7 for sale? any 8's out there that need a new home..? an where is the best place to find planes, I hate having to fight with collectors on Ebay.. I just want to use them not show them off.. thanks.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I have a #7 for sale.
http://timetestedtools.wordpress.com/tools-for-sale/


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Don here on LJs, or walt at brass city records. His website has tools for sale with pics, his merchandise is top notch…


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

just looking at ebay. (not mine and no affiliation what so ever)

If your looking for an older type 3 or 4, it will be hard to beat this one.


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## planepassion (Nov 24, 2010)

In the interests of getting the fundamentals down, I've been focusing on Schwarz' "course, medium, fine" concept as I approach my work.

I use that to pick which saw, plane, whatever I need and set them up accordingly. So for rough lumber, I have my scrub (to help flatten really out of whack boards plus dimension too-thick boards). I have my #5 set up with a medium camber.

I was reading a Charlesworth article about flattening boards and his approach relies heavily on cambering. So I've been experimenting with that. I was edge jointing a piece of wood yesterday that was off-level pretty badly. I tried David's method by using the cambered center portion of my #5 to plane the high area-so the center of the plane was riding about 1/4" from the left edge. Then I cleaned it up with my #7 with a straight edge blade. I'm loath to put camber on my #7 jointer.

However, I will camber my #8 and use it to flatten boards before using my LN #4 for final smoothing. When I was acquiring my planes I didn't have a sense for what role they would play like you guys are discussing here. But now I can put the #8 to use. The only thing I don't like about it is that it isn't corrugated, so it will be quite a workout.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Working down a top for flat:









#33 Scrub plane first ( BIG bites)









A cambered #5 jack was next, not so big bites, and at the diagonal instead of straight across.









Follow up with a #4 to smooth things out. I usually go with the grain, plane was sitting for a "profile shot".

Board in these pictures was riven from a beam. I needed to smooth the riven side, to make a jaw for a leg vise.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Scott, I only have two duplicates. A Veritas BU smoother with the corresponding LN nº4. I like that I can change the blade for the smoother, but the camber on BU planes is a PITA. So I got the LN nº4 to leave a pristine surface, although I find the Nº4 a bit uncomfortable on the handle. I have slim hand and even for me the the handle is too small.

The other one is the scraping plane, strangely enough they work differently, my experience has been that the Veritas plane will chatter with some woods, so the thicker blade of the LN plane is better on these, the trade off is that it is easier to form a hook on the Veritas blade than on the LN blade, they should have used softer steel for their scraping plane.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Okay, after all the discussion of no dupes, today I found a SW #4c i couldn't pass up…



























It'll be a smoother…


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## ShipWreck (Feb 16, 2008)

Ok guys…....... time to "skool" the newbie. Why in the world would you need 3-4 different planes of the same size when all you need to do is keep a couple extra blades for what you need " to do". A blade change and adjustment is a 30 second exercise even after a few beers. You will spend the same amount of time aligning and setting depth by switching planes.

Am I missing something?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Fist, I see Smitty sliding further down the slippery slope. But then, I couldn't walk by that SW #4c either.

Shipwreck, if you can change the blade and the re-adjust the frog on a smoother in 30 seconds and have it right every time, you are my new hero. Think of a board, grain changing in 3 different spots, needing 3 different setting. You want this board for a chest top. You need to plane it. (been there done that) Man was I glad I had 3 different planes.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Marked $40, paid $32. Wood is perfect… No flare out of the brass screw slots; they've never been mucked with. About a half inch off the iron, decal outline plainly visible. Love it. I'll clean and lap (as much as I have too) the sole, sharpen and polish the business end of the iron, and that's all I'll do to it…


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

the rosewood is beautiful. You will polish the brass to won't you? $32 is not bad. I'm itchin to pull the trigger on the type 3-4 #7. I need it like a hole in the head.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

No, not bad. $30 is what I offered, wasn't gonna walk over $2… I think i will clean the brass knob a bit. The tool has earned a treat…


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## ShipWreck (Feb 16, 2008)

Thx Don….... Kinda makes sense to me know.

Oh boy….......here we go! More plane hunting. The wife is already rolling her eyes at me.


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## ShipWreck (Feb 16, 2008)

NIce find Smitty!


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Don said: "Man was I glad I had 3 different planes."

Now that is what I am talking about! Call me hard headed. Don I assume you are talking about smoothers. How are these smoothers different and why? Do you set them up or tune them this way?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Scott, I am not sure how many smoother I have at this point. Maybe 10 or so, so yes some are "just because they are steel, or aluminum, or just plain pretty". But some are set up for a purpose. My 604 is a straight smoother. Its always where I start. 25 degree, tight mouth, flat bottom.

My #62 is the same, typical 25 degree sharpen, but of course its a bevel up. I have a sargent, with a little wider mouth, it can take shavings a little thicker if needed. You know I have a 604 as a jack now, and a #4 with a 30 degree, which to be honest, haven't seen much difference, but on that particular piece of wood I might.

Same with my #5s. My home made infill is my strong camber, use it right after the scrub (sometimes as a scrub) plane. I have a low knob nice rosewood left as a smoother. No I don't use it much, but when I do its esthetically pleasing. I have an A5, also a smoother, which I planned to sharpened at 30 degrees(I just haven't needed it yet). I have an S5 with a very slight camber.

Like the 2 small scraper planes I made. One will get a toothed blade (again, on my to-do list). Could I do with one plane? Sure, but I had fun making them, I think they are beautiful, and cost to keep them is $0.

Do I need all of these? HELL YES.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Why in the world would you need 3-4 different planes of the same size when all you need to do is keep a couple extra blades for what you need " to do".

It is the same as those who have 3,4 or 5 different routers all set with different bits etc. You can have a jack plane with a cambered blade, one with a york pitch frog, one with a standard frog, etc.

As a person who makes his living with woodwork, I tend to have more specialized planes than repeats. Leaving aside the esoteric discussions of angle of incidence, how much can a BU plane take off etc. You can do just fine with 3 BU planes, a jointer, a jack and a smoother, with different angle blades. The down side is that you don't have the immediate feedback that you get with the BD planes when you extend or detract the blade, which is very useful when time is important.


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Thanks Don. I guess I have 6 smoothers and I want to use them all. I haven't noticed a difference between Stanley 4 1/2 and the LN 4 1/2 with a high angle frog (50 degrees). The LN performs so superbly that the others are getting jealous.

I try to put an imperceptible camber and round the corners on my smoothers.


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## ShipWreck (Feb 16, 2008)

SKOOLED! 

Thx guys.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

I didn't need to hear that the high angle LN 4 1/2 is awesome. Do they make an all bronze yet? All you guys with the multiple smoothers. I generally have two #4s and a #3 going. Unlike masters of the settings, I generally just set a plane up, see what it does, then try to remember it. When I need something particular, I just grab the plane that "just happens to be" set up like that. For instance, my cherry Don #4 is set up for a medium shaving right now. Since I didn't set the mouth, it'll probably stay that way my entire life. 
.
I tinker with multiple Jacks more than smoothers. I've got a Frankenstein jack with a lever cap off a transitional and a Hock. I have it set to really hog. I put an extra thick tote on it and I can really slug it around. I've got my #6 set for a really light cut. 
.
I guess what I'm saying is that I typically set a plane up, see what it does, then leave it that way. Forever.


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## Brit (Aug 14, 2010)

Scot said "I try to put an imperceptible camber and round the corners on my smoothers."

I'd like to talk about rounded corners for a minute because I have never understood why people do this. Most people would probably say "So I don't get plane tracks left on the surface". Just think about that for a minute. You will still get plane tracks. They will just have rounded corners.










Obviously there is merit in cambering a smoothing iron slightly to stop plane tracks, but to my mind rounding the corners is a total waste of time.

If anyone wants to convince me otherwise, I'm all ears.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I guess what I do is more of a camber. It's very similar to the same way Paul Sellers teaches to do it. Its also why I like the single wheel guide. My typical sharpening will run like this. If its a brand new or reconditioned plane, I'll get it close with the grinding wheel (aluminum oxide 8") then its 25 passes flat, 10 passes tipped to the left, 10 passes tipped to the right, and 10 passes flat again. I do that on all 4 stones. Note if its a little off square or not straight across and it takes more than 25 passes on the course stone, so be it. If its the first time with this blade, then the back just got done with the course first. If its a resharpen I hit the back on the fine stone only and Its hit first on the fine stone, after the other 3 stone.

If I'm just touching it up then its 25 passes flat, 10 passes tipped to the left, 10 passes tipped to the right, and 10 passes flat again just on the finest stone. Its then about 10 strokes flat on the strop and 4 or 5 more flat passes either on the strop or the fine, depending on how the mood strikes me. I've noticed a difference if I don't finish with the strop on the back.

Also note the 25 passes is just a number. If its just a touch up it may be 10, 6,6,and 6 or something like that.

This has always been enough camber to eliminate tracks unless I'm taking real heavy shaving, and if I'm taking heavy shavings, I'll be going over it again anyhow.

I know, a long winded way of agreeing with Andy.


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## Brit (Aug 14, 2010)

LOL Don. I do a similar thing, except I also split the difference between the far left and right and the center. So if I do 12 stroke with the pressure on the far left and the far right, I'll do 6 strokes middle left and middle right. Mads sent me a nice strop, but I'm ashamed to say I haven't even stuck the leather to the ply backing yet. I must do that soon and start using it.


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Andy, agreed. The rounded sides will not eliminate plane tracks. They prevent the iron from "digging" in. That is what I read somewhere. Seems reasonable.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

If I can get close enough with a smoother to get to the scraper, I consider it a victory. With a very thin shaving, I think the difference between corners-knocked and imperceptible camber is basically nil. Andy's right, of course, but it seems to me that the radius required to make such a subtle camber would be unobtainable for me.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Incurable time waster. Hate hard corners on my bench irons… Tracks is bad… And corners is what I blame…


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

I knock them down because someone told me to a long time ago. It seems to me that if you "chamfer" the edge a hair, you'll have an easier time picking off that "peak" with a scraper. In theory, you'd have to take off a little more wood following a subtle camber. Who the hell knows. I'm sure we could start viscious debates three ways on this site.


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## mochoa (Oct 9, 2009)

A couple of issues back in PW the LN guy had an article about how you don't need to knock the corners off an iron if you're taking a light pass and if you start at either edge of the board. He explained that the aris (the small part of the sole on either side of the blade) kept the corners from digging in.

So basically when you start your passes on the left side of the board, you only get a track mark with the first pass, which gets removed with the subsequent passes, and you end up with a perfectly smooth surface at the end.

Pretty eye opening, that's why I now keep my smoother blade totally straight and it works well.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^When I'm talking about knocking them off, I'm talking probably 1/64". I just rock the edge for one pass on the higest grit. I subscribe more to what Mauricio's talking about.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

And if there is a camber of any kind, the corners of the iron don't even extend through the sole of the plane.

I'll have to keep the 'new' #4C straight, hard corners, and see how it performs vs. the way I have the flat #4 set (w/camber and relieved corners)...


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

My 2 cents:

Mauricio, I only agree in theory. In practice, its to hard to plane in the "totally straight" pattern. If this would work in practice, a hand help power planer would work well, as long as you followed the same practice. If you've ever tried it you know it doesn't work at all (for a power planer). With a regular plane if the shavings is thin enough it seems to work, because you won't see the line. The problem then becomes if its something in between, you won't see it until the finish hits it. Of course if you are scraping after, it doesn't matter either.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

I've seen many a ridge appear on my miraculously smooth surfaces once finish hit them


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## grittyroots (Jan 13, 2011)

i have 3,4,5, a few low angles. all of them are just tuned to work


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

FWIW, here's the kinds of inputs I've ended up adopting re: my approach to camber, corners, etc.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/camber-with-a-honing-guide


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

I like that method, Smitty. It's what I do but I only do the outermost passes followed by a quick "rock" at a high grit. You wouldn't want to do this on a waterstone b/c you'd gouge it; but I'm a sandpaper head. That's one gorgeous edge that the Swartz is showing off.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Schwarz has since moved on the oilstones. It would seem that cambering overall would whack waterstones in short order and send them back to be flattened. Oh and his edges, with the polished microbevel? Yeah, absolutely incredible stuff.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Lysdexic's a big oil stone guy, if I'm not mistaken. I tell you, I'm starting to think there's something there. I don't own any really good oilstones. Heck, I don't own any REALLY good waterstones. I like the durability aspect of the oilstones. I think the mess downside can be largely avoided. I don't think I'll ever hop on the diamond bandwagon…but the oilstones…


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## mochoa (Oct 9, 2009)

Man I dont know, the diamond stones is sounding like the easiest, fastest, low maintenance route.


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## Dcase (Jul 7, 2010)

I prefer doing the corners like Rob Cosman teaches, he just takes the corners down a little after he has honed the iron. It only takes 20 seconds or so and I hardly ever get any tracks or lines while planing.

Smitty, you are right about gouging water stones. I tried honing my Scrub iron on my Shapton stone and it kept wanting to dig into the stone. I now just use sandpaper for any type of cambering.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

diamonds are my girls best friends…..


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Testimonials abound for all those methods, and that's good. Because picking something and sticking with it is probably the biggest thing. From there it depends on what's right for you and your shop. I like the idea of using oil on steel vs. water for the DMTs, but then I have plenty of WD40 available for final wipedowns.

I think the gang here runs the gammut on methods, including your scary sharp.


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## Dcase (Jul 7, 2010)

I have a few oil stones and I really like them for free hand sharpening. I mostly use them for my chisels. I don't mind the oil and I don't know how they can be considered any more messy then water stones. The only thing I don't like about the oil stones is the ones I have seem to clog up quickly and its not easy to clean them. With the Shapton stones I have I can just flatten it on my DMT for a few sec and the surface is clean and flat again.

I think Diamond stones are a really good choice when it comes to speed and maintenance but the only problem with the diamond stones is they don't have polishing grit so you almost have to follow up and finish your honing on a fine water stone or strop.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I've used them all. I like the DMTs. I use glass cleaner instead of straight water(paul sellers video had it). It is the one thing I miss about the oil stones though. If I hadn't got the deal on the DMTs I'd still be using oil stones and I'd be happy. The oil stones I had were all flea market finds. I don't have more than $50 in everything.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

What do you diamond heads do for your highest grit?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

3 micron. No Idea what that equated to other than sharp.


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## racerglen (Oct 15, 2010)

My prize isn't Diamond, but an old Norton #1 Wa********************a oil stone, came flat, has stayed flat (with attention)
in it's orriginal wood box.
The only thing that does that mirror finish better among my stones would be the 6,000 water stone that's sitting dry in the Veratas stone pond that's also been dry for a few years..
I find mess or not it's less cleanup with the oil stones than the water and less keeping up.
I do have some cheapy Diamond stones and they're GREAT for quick touchups.
OOppss..
forgot the micron sticky paper stuff, great for the final edge..and sometimes it's damned agressive too..mirror, mirrior ..and slice yr fingah..


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

green bar on strop is my highest 'grit' as it polishes re: paul sellers style. They have an 8K equivalent now, but I don't have that one. Strop then stop (nods to 'set it and forget it' here… thanks, ron!)


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^Do you do anything to the back between sharpenins and a stroppins, Smit?


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## mochoa (Oct 9, 2009)

I was stropping with these Pinnacle .3 micron sheets I got from woodcraft and the edge was bad to the bone.

I got the packet of the 3M sheets from Tools for Woodworking. I'm thinking of setting those up to pollish the backs of chisels and plane irons. then I dont thave to worry to much about perfectly flat stones for the bevels.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

To all the Tormek and scary sharp guys, try this: 1) strike a hollowgrind bevel on the wheel, 2) strop it quickly on the powered wheel, 3) Freehand the secondary on 2000 grit scary sharp and hit the back a couple times (you can jig it up if you want), 4) quick strop charged with the green goodness. Repeat 3-4 between formal sharpenings. I haven't done it but I bet you could get damn close.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

^ RE: the backs 'between' anything…

I'm having a hard time letting go of the backs of irons. I can't explain it, but I want to work (re-dress?) the backs of irons with each honing. Don't have to. Really don't have to touch it after it's polished. But it seems to be something I do.

I have hit irons with the strop that are losing some of their kill, and it refreshes enough to get me through the job. Then it's either a secondary bevel issue or a quick hit on the 3rd and 4th DMTs only to restore the bevel. What I need to do is improve my iron setting gauge to include a 'secondary bevel' setting because there are utils there I'm simply not taking advantage of. It's on my list…


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

I have used the compliment of Shaptons and they are superb. Yet, in my southern humid garage water and steel just doesn't make sense. Thus I went oil stones. They are a full set and were not cheap but half the price of the full Shapton set.

Thus far I am satisfied with the oil stones but not thrilled. I am hoping that experience will improve my results.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Smit, I'm exactly the same way. I know I could see my handsome mug in the back of that iron when I first polished it but I…can't…just…let…go of the possibility that there's a tiny burr still there; that I've lost a bit somewhere. I dress the back with every sharpening. Pathology, maybe. Eric Estrada, yes.


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

I dont even know how many duplicates I have. I dont even know how many or what types of planes I have. But i figure I have at least 4 or 5 #5 planes. Including 2 605s, a WR, and a SW. Not because I set them up differently, because I have a plane buying itch and am too lazy to sell them. In an ideal world I would be selling off duplicates and aquiring new tools I dont have yet. Anyone "need" a 605? : )


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Shane, wouldn't you love to find that there are compelling, functional reasons why you need at least 3 #5's?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

a few post back, didn't i list compelling, functional reasons why you need at least 3 #5's?

I'll conjure up a few more if need be!!


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

After reading all the posts Scott, I know there is no rational or functional reason FOR ME to have 2 or more #5 planes. For the more skilled cambered guys maybe? But not me…at this point anyway.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

what's rational got to do with anything?


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

LOL Don. You did, in fact, persuade me. I should have written: Aren't you glad that we have established that there are compelling, functional reasons to have several #5's.

Shane relax. You don't need to sell a thing. As your skills progress you are going to NEED those extra #5's.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Is there a compelling reason for this kind of iron? This is from the #4C after 30 swipes of the back on the course DMT…


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

After 250 swipes…


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

but to my mind rounding the corners is a total waste of time.

If anyone wants to convince me otherwise, I'm all ears.

The idea is not that you do not leave plane tracks, but that those that you leave are not noticeable to the eye or touch. Straight plane tracks are very obvious, even if you are getting feather thin shavings. I do not know if this convinces you but it works for me.


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Now that you've put the work in, yes. Finish the back. Regrind the bevel to remove the nicks. Whats not to like?


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## TechRedneck (Jul 30, 2010)

Smitty

I would have put that knarley iron on a belt sander first. ( don't be an idiot like me and turn on the DC by habit )

My only DMT is an XC. I will get a course and fine one day.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Belt sander????









Then an Oil stone, then some shavings??









Stanley 1204


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Bandit - I love the belt sander approach, and I have done it!

Here's the finished backside.










Sorry for hijacking the thread, Scott. Guess I shoulda related it to multiples…


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

Smitty, I am sure that this 4c will have an imperceptible camber, rounded corners and a back bevel. This way it will be tuned for tough grain and be at the ready.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Well played, Sir…


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