# the cabinet saw face off



## ToolCrib (Jan 2, 2007)

*Here's a question we got recently at toolcrib.com that I'd appreciate your input on:*

"What is the best cabinet saw; Powermatic 2000, powermatic 66, Jet,
or Delta?"

*I asked for a little more detail and got this in response:*

"Thank you for responding to my email so quickly.

The main job for my cabinet saw is ripping from 4 1/4 to 10 1/4 hardwood
lumber and occassional dadoes. I run a small shop and do a gambit of
projects from building custom made furniture to restoring antiques.

Thus far I have my choices down to two saws: Powermatic 2000 or Jet
Xactasaw. I'm leaning more towards the Powermatic 2000 but I know it's just for ego. I'm hoping not to spend over $2500.

Looking forward to your opinion."

So - what is your opinion?

Warning - I will write about this thread on the toolcrib blog AND mention it in our email newsletter.


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## USCJeff (Apr 6, 2007)

My answer would be different then the saws mentioned above. It looks like the use above is for a WWer who is more than a hobbyist. I would justify getting the Powermatic in that case. I chose a Grizzly 1023S (3HP). I've read reviews from a few people who own both and they say that the Grizzly gets the job done well, but it isn't quite a Powermatic. I've never had a situation that I felt the Grizzly was underpowered or unaccurate so I'm very pleased.


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## Nicky (Mar 13, 2007)

In 1981 I bought a 15 year old sears. Motor burned out about 3 years ago.

Could have replaced the motor, or replaced it with a contactor saw, but I've always wanted a unisaw, so I bought one. Very happy with the saw. I would think that for the money, the Powermatic and Jet (and others) saws in this class would have similar features, and perform as well.

My first large stationary tool, purchased new, was a Delta band saw. I've purchased other tools from Delta, so I would say that brand loyalty colors my choices.

I wonder if my first purchase was from Powermatic, and I had same good experience as with Delta, would I be the owner of a "66."


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## thewoodwhisperer (Dec 11, 2006)

I'll tell ya, the extra features on that PM2000 are pretty hard to beat. Have you guys seen them?


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

I think it is about time for a video Marc… Pls. Show us.


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## gizmodyne (Mar 15, 2007)

I have tried most of them. All are nice. I would still buy the SawStop.


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## bbrooks (Jan 3, 2007)

Yes, show us the features Marc. Some of us still need to get a table saw, so it is good to know what is available on the upper end saws.

Agreed, tt would be nice to have a SawStop Giz.

I wonder about the sliding table top saws? I have not read much about them yet, but it seems they would be a better way to go eventually. Instead of sliding the wood across the table, move the table top instead. I would think that would improve the accuracy of the cuts.


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## coloradoclimber (Apr 7, 2007)

I went through this exercise recently. Sold a Grizzly 1023 and bought a new saw. I looked at all mentioned and ended up with the PM2000. So obviously my opinion (and my dollars) voted for the PM2000. The biggest pluses being the larger table and the riving knife. The riving knife really works. I'm sold on it now. The larger table is nice, maybe not required but given that I was buying a new saw the larger table is a nice bonus. The built in casters ended up not adding much value. The saw has probably moved twice before it found it's home and now I never move it. I like the biesemeyer over the uni-fence, but I understand that is a religious issue with delta owners so I'll not go there.

The arbor lock for blade changing is nice, I use it, but I was fine with jamming a 2×4 into the blade, it's always worked before. A nicety but not a make or break.

The PM2000 has a single flat belt instead of the multi V belts. Of course there are opinions on both sides, beats me, I never noted a problem with either type.

The PM2000 weighs more so supposedly it should be more stable. More stable that a 66 or a delta or jet? I dont know, I've not used either. But it is definitely more stable, less vibration, than the Grizzly. But to be fair the Grizzly was getting older and I think the arbor bearings were going.

I looked at the sawstop but the extra cost and the proprietary cartridges required to run it turned me off. I plan on having this saw for 20 years or more. What happens when the electronics either blow or are no longer manufactured for the sawstop. Not something I wanted to have to deal with 10 years down the road. Otherwise the sawstop looks like an excellent saw. If it had some kind of override that would turn it into a regular saw and not need the cartridges or fancy electronics I probably would have gotten it. For that kind of investment I need a simple fix or a guarantee I wouldn't be stuck with a boat anchor.


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## gizmodyne (Mar 15, 2007)

Colorado,... I think it does have an override… for cutting green wood….but could be used otherwise.


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## USCJeff (Apr 6, 2007)

Thanks Colorado. I'm always interested to hear from people who have used the Grizzly 1023 and the Powermatic 2000. I love my 1023, but have no experience with the saws that Grizzly is attempting to "copy". It sounds like there are few moderate differences. I like the idea of the locking arbor. The riving knife sounds good in theory, but I have never used it. I have almost no vibration on my 1023, but it is only a year old. I also have added about 100lbs. of weight to the saw to aid stability. I can't be sure if it really helped or not. I would appreciate the larger table top.


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## andrewsdunn (Apr 9, 2007)

Hi all. I can highly recommend Felder if you want to spend up a bit. They are made in Austria but I assume that they are sold into the US. Very happy with mine.


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## coloradoclimber (Apr 7, 2007)

Giz, I think the green wood / conductive override is a key you put in the electronics box and turn to disable firing the stop when contact with conductive material (like a human body) is sensed. I think, am pretty positive, the saw will not operate without the electronics / brake cartridge installed. I read the saw stop literature pretty thoroughly specifically looking for a "run while brain dead" mode and I don't think it has one. Now eventually the saw breaks down to a motor and a switch so I suppose it would be possible to rip out the fancy electronics and put in a magnetic switch. But I dont think with the sawstop electronics installed that it is possible to run without a cartridge. I even checked to see it the saw would run with an old fired cartridge. That way if they quit making the cartridges maybe you could still run the saw but I dont think the saw will run with an already fired cartridge.

Too dicey for me to make that kind of an investment.

USCJeff, When I was looking to get a new saw I did look at getting a new grizzly. Bang for the buck I think the grizzly is hard to beat. A pretty reasonable cabinet saw for a very good price.

I guess what really swayed be away from getting another grizzly is that I dont trust the quality of grizzly's products. I went through a LOT of issues getting the grizzly tuned straight and square. Enough that even though I eventually got the saw running nicely it still left a bit of a bad taste. I've kind of had this same experience with everything I've bought from grizzly. Great price, always one quality issue or another. I never got that 100% satisfaction right out of the box with grizzly. Grizzly tech support has been great to work with, grizzly prices are very good, but I've always had to tweak one thing or another whenever I buy grizzly.


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## Tikka (May 14, 2007)

I will stick-up for the delta Unisaw 10" Left Tilt, with the 50 Biesmaer Fence. I got mine from Woodworcers.com ona special (I think it was $950). I have been using mine on a daily basis, with no problems at all. I did swap the 3 HP 220 V 60Hz motor, for a Europen 4 HP, 3phase 400V. but that was because of the 50 - 60 Hz frequency imbalance. It took up to 80A at start-up (this is normal because of the frequency inbalance)

I am ripping and cross cutting 12/4 Oak, Maple all day, using a standard Freud rip blade, I very happy Unisaw User. Save the money and buy some other goodies.


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## PanamaJack (Mar 28, 2007)

http://www.sawstop.com/media/W184JOp46-p51.pdf

*Compare them all*. A FineWoodworking Mag. article.


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## Woodsurgin (Apr 2, 2011)

The Laguna Platinum saw's fence can't be beat. It rides just above the table. There are metal "fingers" that overlap 
the fence so it stays perpendicular to it. It is completely adjustable. 
The adjusting wheels on the Delta Unisaw are silky smooth, and the best of the bunch. 
I was disappointed in the PM's quality and smoothness of its wheels. 
I wonder what will happen when the first injury sparks a lawsuit against Saw Stop where someone was cutting green wood and had the override turned on. There is no substitute for thinking, when using a saw.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

I like the lore as much as the next guy but between a 66 and a PM2000, I'd probably opt for the 2000. I'm a JET guy but the JETs can't really compete with the PMs IMO. Between the PM2000 and Unisaw, it probably goes more to brand loyalty in most cases. I think both are fine choices. SawStop doesn't interest me personally.


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## SnowyRiver (Nov 14, 2008)

I have a 1988 PM 66…it still runs like the day it was new. At this point I wouldnt have anything else.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Colorado, 
About 1 1/2yr ago I opted for the Grizzly G0690 and use the riving knife at all times. You didn't say if your 1023 was the older "S" series though I assume that it was. As you probably know the G0690 has a reworked 1023S trunnion and comes with a very nice tool-less removable riving knife. That plus a couple of Yellow Board Buddies have worked out exceptionally well for me, IMO.

My G0690 came tuned reasonably close but yes some tweaking was in order. If I recall runout was originally in the 0.002+" range and the blade angle limit bolt was off a hair. The Leeson motor is purported to be a better/more efficient motor, though with this being my first experience with it I am relying on reputation here. Weight wise, with the added cast iron router extension, my 690 comes to ~626lb with the shorter rails. Heavy, but not as much as the PM2000 (675lb), but the PM2000 does have the longer 50" rails. Personally I couldn't justify the longer rails, even though I probably had room for them in my shop. I am a light-weight hobbiest. All said and done, I have have ~$1700 (delivered) in my G0690 w/T-10222 extension and have been very pleased with it. Using a Freud LM72010 Flat Rip Blade, I had zero problems ripping 6" to 9" 8/4 hardwood. Running the G0690 w/240v the 3hp motor refused to sag/slow at all.

I know the G0690 is NOT a Powermatic, but at nearly half the price the G0690 is great bang-for-buck and should NOT be overlooked. Even though this thread is ~5 years old my vote goes with Grizzly.


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## bluekingfisher (Mar 30, 2010)

HorizontalMike - just had a look at your saw, particularly interested in the router extension table. I assume from the photo you would have to walk around the back of the router when feeding stock through?? I guess it would be no big deal but normally one would walk round the front of the router table while conducting this operation.

Do you find it awkward moving around the table the "wrong way round"? unless of course you are left handed

just an observation.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

I really need to change that picture. At first, the position you see the router fence in was going to be in was for "storage" in order to keep it from interfering with the TS fence. I ended up completely removing the router fence and hanging it on the wall between uses in order to maximize the TS table.

As far as USE, I turn the router fence so that it runs left/right when standing in FRONT of the TS. I considered working from the END of the router extension, but found having a lot more table on the left (left/right fence position) to be the most desirable and has the best ease/safety of use. BTW, the on/off switch to my Triton router points toward the front of the TS and is easy to reach.


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## bluekingfisher (Mar 30, 2010)

Thanks for pointing that one out Mike, I even went out to my own shop to go through a trial run making out I was feeding stock from the position the fence on your saw is in. Couldn't work it out or at least found it awkward. You have explained all my friend and I will now sleep soundly tonight. -


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## Dustin (Dec 14, 2008)

I'll put in my two cents on this old post. It depends on how much you plan on ripping, and how often you will be using it in the day. If it's occasional work you plan on doing a 3 hp saw will do just fine. I run a small cabinet shop so I feel that it's necessary to step up to a 5 to 7/5 hp. I've used Grizzly, Delta, and SawStop products. I like the powermatic more than the Jet. I even like the Grizzly more than the Jet. Friends don't let friend buy delta anymore. I think that the Powermatic and the Grizzly/Shop Fox saws will feel better than the SawStop but you really can't go wrong with the protection that it provides. I do not recommend a sliding table saw for ripping, however that's just from what I've been reading, I just got a slider and have very little experience with it.


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