# Incra I-Box Headache



## MillarTime

What in the **** am I doing wrong..?
I have watched the video 5 times now; tightened, squared, and triple checked everything I can think of… This is my 2nd test box and every board comes out different.

*I mark 1 side of all the boards and always start cutting from that side
*I start the sides mark-to-mark with the front/back piece (like in the video)
*the adjustment lock knob is tightened

full size image link: http://s6.postimg.org/59423hwkw/IMG_20140310_162832.jpg


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## Momcanfixit

I don't know what to say other than that when I get frustrated like that, the best thing for me to do is walk away, shut the shop door and look at it the next day.

I love my iBox but whenever I set up, I look at the instructions. Give me a second and I'll go take a look….


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## MrFid

Just cut 'em by hand! Only kidding, to each their own. I know what it's like to be frustrated by tools not working like they should.


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## Momcanfixit

Check out p. 8 in the instructions. I suspect this is where you might be going wrong.

http://www.incra.com/manuals/INCRA_IBOX_Manual_150dpi.pdf

You have to do the 'kiss calibration' every time and then reference off the first cut.

In other words, once you make your first test cut, then you have to tighten or loosen the pins so that they fit into the test cut they way you want them to.

I don't know if I'm helping, but don't give up! Or maybe give up for tonight…..


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## mojapitt

My IBox is one of the best investments i have made. Not that it's not possible to have a defective one, but mine come out awesome every time. I watched the video once and followed the instructions in the manual.


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## MillarTime

Definitely walking away from it for 24hrs.

I had this same issue when I previously used it on the tablesaw. this is the 1st time I've used it on a router table. The issue seems to be magnified now.

My 1st test box was cut from some MDF I had laying around. I used a scrap piece to do the 'kiss' calibration and the pins were very loose. I adjusted the gear-knob and tightened the gap. Then when that turned out all funky, like the one pictured above, I was out of scrap and went to some nice overpriced poplar boards (all I had left…). I did the 'kiss' calibration all over again and the test pieces seemed good-ish.

Sigh… I hate messing with dado blades but, I might have to move back to the tablesaw.


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## PLK

Without proper teaching it took me days to get box joints to a level that I found could be workable for drawers. I can't comment on the bought jig you are using I learned using a homemade jig(well about 4 fences on the home made jig.

The biggest issue is making sure your spacer is exactly the same size as the dado set your using. If you have to go a thousanths smaller and shave away a tiny bit with a sharp chisel.

When you move to the second piece ( the mate to your first piece make sure you use that spacer between the stop) this is what looks to me to be where your mistake was made.

Paul


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## Momcanfixit

I hope it goes better for you today. I've never tried the iBox on my router table, but have had great luck on my TS. I did go through many scraps the first time though.


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## NiteWalker

I haven't used the ibox on the router table, only the tablesaw, but from here it looks like something got botched up during the setup process.

It sort of looks like your shorter sides are upside down, but that still wouldn't account for the gaps.
Are you sure the red knob is in the home position? Are the material platforms tightened down?


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## MillarTime

I've torn the i-box down to the ground and began the setup process as if I just opened the box. I was able to drastically reduce the errors BUT, they are still there, to a smaller degree.
A few issues I identified:
-SOMETHING is moving. After setting the distance between the blades (of the jig) to lightly fit my test cut (with a 0.75" bit) AND tightening the locking knob, the blades moved further apart to the point that I had to yank the board off the blades each time. This actually worked out for nice snug joints on the test pieces so I cranked the locking knob down even more (a ridiculous amount more…) and continued with my project.
-Using a clamp to hold the pieces on the jig is not just a good suggestion, it is an absolute must. Most specifically on a router table because of vibration and the bit rotation. I've been using a clamp all along but, I've been using an Irwin Quick-Grip. That type of grip will, and has, moved the workpiece slightly as you tighten it down and it attempts to slide itself to a square position. Don't use this type of clamp!
-Cheap wood (poplar) and cheap bits make a mess of chips and splintering. DUH

Despite everything I did, the last cuts I made still came out wrong… The width of wood I am using results in just a tiny cut at the end of the pins. (No big deal, I was just going to adjust the width of the pieces on the tablesaw afterwards.) Somehow, from one piece to the next the first/last pins came out different… Like, that tiny last cut came out to no cut at all on the opposite board.

Anyways… I'm taking the jig back to the tablesaw (tomorrow). I give up and need to walk away another 24hrs.


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## Jasonjenkins

have you called Incra yet? There are several posts about there good customer service. I bet they would have some ideas of where to start… Er… Continue?


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## OldRick

Hi guys!

Glad this topic came up as I was in my shop for a few days playing with MY Ibox. Interesting to see that someone also has just a tiny bit of material left on the one edge. That is the same problem I was having. Since I was just practicing and not trying to make anything of value, I was using some 3/4 birch plywood remnants I had. I cut them to 3 inch widths and went with 1/2 inch box joints. Sounded like easy division to me. Imagine my surprise when I, too, ended up with just a slight amount of material on the one end. So I measured it. It ended up being 1/8 inch thick. So how in the hell do you divide 3 inches by 1/2 inch and get a remainder of 1/8? So I tried again only this time I cut the boards 2 and 7/8's. I'll be danged if it didn't come out perfect. At this point I'm chalking it up to "SPOOKY MATH". But since my OCD refuses to let me be content with this answer, I have some 1/2 inch plywood remnants at hand and a brand new zero clearance insert that I will profile with a 3/8's dado stack. My math tells me I can divide 3 inches by 3/8s and come up with an even 8. It might be a few days or so but I will let you know what I find. There's got to be an answer.


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## AandCstyle

I have an Ibox and had a hard time getting it set up correctly. I called Incra and was told enough to get it setup for making 1/4" pins after much trial and error. At that point I decided to NEVER change the setting and ONLY ever make 1/4" pins. The instructions assume that the user is able to make the correct adjustments correctly the first try; there is ZERO troubleshooting to assist if the first try isn't successful. I only use it on my TS and I have marked on the shims which ones are the ones I use to make my pins. This is all less than ideal, but it is the best I am able to do. Maybe if someone from Incra reads this they will enhance their instructions to include help for those that are less than perfect.

Regarding some of the other issues, if a router bit has been sharpened, that would make the pins slightly undersized.


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## Bobsboxes

I was also stumbling with mine. I downloaded the link on Sandra's post, to my ipad and took that to garage with me. I followed the instructions and was able to cut very nice 1/2", and 3/8" box joints. I learned that, you need to use a scrap of same material. Clamp and make a cut in test material, then use that cut to set width of pins, get the fit snug, then flip test piece and begin again. Cut all the pins on that end. My cuts across a 5" board, were within a .001. Hope this helps.


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## DanielP

I have the Incra I-box also. What I have found is that it is necessary to be very precise at every step of the process. When clamping a piece in for cutting check to make sure it is flat on surface. If you are blocking it up against a starter piece take time and insure everything is square and flush. My initial mistake was after I watched the video I thought I could go as fast as the demonstrator. Nope.

Also the rail that slides in the miter slot doesn't afford a lot of stability. It is easy to lift it up without realizing it. I actually squat down somewhat to get level with table and push straight through.\

I can get mine set up fine but making running adjustments with the micro knob has been futile. Once I start I just keep going and hope for the best.

I've found I like the looks of the centered box joints and they are much simpler than the math way. I think they look better anyway. I use that 1/4 - 3/8 switchable dado by Freud and it works great.

Hope this helps.


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## PRGDesigns

Call Incra and ask for Mr. Perry McDanial - he designed it. Thanks.


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## PRGDesigns

Call Incra and ask for Mr. Perry McDanial - he designed it. Thanks.


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## NiteWalker

Alan shaffter (sp) designed it; incra manufactured it.
But Perry did the videos IIRC, so he would definitely be the one to talk to. Also, Alan is a member here.


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## trevor7428

I know this thread is really old, but I too was having issues with setting up my IBox like OP. No one says if they resolved there issue or not.

I found a post in a different forum created by the guy who created the ibox. I figured I'd share, so in future if anyone like me, who actually utilize the search feature will stumple accross the answer

"What kind of dado are you using? The I-BOX won't work with a "wobble" dado blade.

After you adjusted the pins to the kerf, did you dial in a few (1 or 2) tics of micro adjustment?- turn the silver knob while preventing red knob from turning- righty tighty, lefty loosey. In most cases that should take care of fingers that are too loose (or too tight).

Setting the jig takes a little bit of finesse to know just how much pressure is needed to turn the red knob when setting the guide pin width to the kerf- you may not be turning it enough or turning it too much. The pins should fit your test kerf with just a bit of friction- not loose and not tight. Soon the right amount of pressure will be second nature. But again, a bit of micro will easily correct poorly fitting fingers. Also, when doing the initial calibration, both guide pins should be together- no gap, but stop turning when the gap is completely closed- don't over-tighten the red knob.

There are a few things you can check, but first let met say that setting the I-BOX exactly as described in the manual and video, should give you perfect fingers, actually too perfect- ones that are a tad too snug- because the jig measures the kerf and sets the fingers to that exact size. When I adjust the red knob to the kerf, I typically get a tight joint, so I usually dial in one or two tics (CCW) of micro. Since your fingers are too loose, you need to turn the silver knob CW a tic or two. As suggested already, watch the video and read the manual until you fully understand the assembly, calibration, and setting, and also what is happening to the position of the guide pins with respect to the blade and to the spacing between the pins as you turn the red knob- they change at the same time.

Ensure you have a good initial assembly and calibration. Don't over-tighten the red knob when putting the guide pins together in preparation for "kiss calibration." Also, during calibration, carefully adjust the silver knob so that the blade tips just barely "kiss" the wide, lower part of the guide pin- DO NOT cause the blade or guide pin to deflect with a hard, passionate kiss.

Before you make any adjustment to the red or silver knob, disengage the lock. Re-engage it before making any cuts. This is CRITICAL! It is physically possible to turn both knobs when the mechanism is locked. If you turn them without unlocking the mechanism, the pins won't be properly adjusted, and as soon as you loosen the lock, the mechanism and pins will immediately jump to some unintended setting. Also, make sure the pins do not hit the stock ledge during setup or adjustment.

If you are sure you are doing everything correctly, but none of these suggestions help, there may be a problem with the thickness of the guide pins. It seems a very small number of jigs may have been delivered with improperly machined guide pins- as you may or may not know, properly fitting fingers require an accuracy of just a few thousandths of an inch. Use a caliper to carefully check the thickness of the guide pins. Your measurements should be within a few thousandths of the dimensions shown below. Slight variations are acceptable, but the relationship of the thickness should be X" and 2X". Ideally, the combined thickness of the thin "fins" should be .090", individually they should each be .045". The shoulder depth on the blade-side guide pin should be .090".


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## MillarTime

Thanks Trevor.
I never did go back to using the jig on the router table. Perhaps I need a better quality bit (much sharper), but every time the bit contacted the wood it seemed like it really kicked the work piece, despite clamping it really tight, rather than cutting it like hot butter. Using it on the tablesaw seriously cut down on the mismatched teeth, but once all four sides were fit together there was still something weird going on. Each side seemed to go uphill from left to right. This resulted in the box having two diagonal corners that rest on the table and the other two not flush to the table so that the box rocked diagonally.
I checked my blade alignment to both the fence and the miter slot thinking that maybe I didn't rip the boards square, or that I was not cutting the joints square in the jig, but everything lined up perfectly on the micrometer.
I finally just spray-glued a large sheet of sandpaper to the garage floor and sanded the entire box level after gluing it up….. ¯\(ツ)/¯

Sad to say, it's been three years and I haven't touched it since. The jig was frustrating enough, but I also really hate setting up my dado set, lol. I have found other projects to take up my time though. I didn't completely abandon woodworking.

Here's the finished box I was working on. full size image links:
https://s6.postimg.org/c1irwaacx/My_Box2.jpg
https://s6.postimg.org/yc6mw97n5/My_Box.jpg


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## AlaskaGuy

> Alan shaffter (sp) designed it; incra manufactured it.
> But Perry did the videos IIRC, so he would definitely be the one to talk to. Also, Alan is a member here.
> 
> - NiteWalker


Exactly right, I don't who this Mr. Perry McDanial is but he's not the designer.


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## GR8HUNTER

EVERYONE KNOWS it was rocky and Bullwinkle …LMAO :<))


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## woodplay

I've spent approximately 9 hours trying to get this right. I ended up wasting $57 of birdseye maple because I finally got a joint to work on scrap then I'd transition to the maple only to have it fail on every joint. I got it a couple weeks ago and thinking of returning it. If it's this finicky to use, even if I finally get one right, will I ever get it out again?


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## talkinggoat

Sorry to dredge up this old thread, but I'm having similar issues. Sometimes the stock will come out 1/16th to 1/8th higher than the other… offset, however you want to call it. The stock itself won't line up. If you put it on a straight edge or a table, one will touch the table, the other will be higher. I can't explain it.


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## FBtool

I've been using the Incra jig for a while now, but first time cutting centered box joints (larger center key) Driving me crazy. Watched the included video and this one (see link but when I put the two top and side together the keys are shifted on one half of the pattern and it won't go together….grrr
This Is a nice video of the process but didn't help me solve my problem!


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## jwar41

Greetings all,

I just wanted to add to this post as for years I have not used my Incra I-Box , I replaced my saw with a new Saw Stop and have begun retooling my new wood shop. I was in the process of making some drawers with box joints and remembered that I have an I-Box jig. For the last several days I was beating myself over the head trying to remember how to set the thing up and after reading the manual and watching the dvd you know because We forget stuff we think we know. 
I thought I had it and I missed the most important step and did not kiss the blade correctly. Page 8 in the Manual found here on Incra's website https://incra.com/precision_fences-ibox.html . After getting it all set I was still having an issue that was user created. My pins would not go into the slots no matter how many times I adjusted the I-Box silver knob.

So I did the best thing ever I reached out to Incra and spoke with Mark ; whom is very helpful btw. He walked me through my foul up and how to correct it. I had inadvertently after re-centering the Allen screw located in the slot on the red thumb knob. I used the Red know to kiss the blade and did it ever throw my joints out of whack. 
I went from a Right hand tilting saw to a left hand tilting saw and when I moved the track guide over I did not get it close to the blade before kissing the Blade. That too messed me up. So Mark squared me away and off to make joints I went and they were loose at first , then over tight. 
So before I called Incra I had emailed tech support aka Mark and Mark did respond before I even spoke to him on the phone this morning. In that response He sent me a link to a short video that explains the Silver and red knob adjustments on the I-Box along with proper calibration of the jig. I guess Mark made the Video in response to all the issues People were having with correct setup and also adjusting to make those super nice looking center box joints. 
So I gave that video a whirl and low and behold all the pieces fell together. So not to be stingy here is the link 



. He made this video in 2018 and it is now July 2021 So I hope that this post will help someone that has or will purchase an Incra I-Box jig and runs into some issues or just needs a refresher.
Like I said it has been years since I used my Incra I-Box so it is like starting over with a new toy and today after 6 test joints I made 4 custom drawer boxes utilizing the Incra I-Box For my daughter's bath vanity Prefinished maple insides with the original drawer faces in oak.


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## Peteybadboy

jwar41 that video is excellent!


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## bbc557ci

Photo of an urn I recently made for a deceased friend, still need to apply a finish. Did this with the IBox and a dado blade. Her favorite wood… Ash. It takes some practice and can deplete the stash of scrap wood but in the end, it just works. Way less frustrating than dove tails, for me.


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## EdWeber

All I can say is that initial setup is the critical point. Once set, you shouldn't need to adjust it. 
I set mine up buy cutting a kerf with my dado and checking the width with a brass setup bar to see if it was tight enough. Once satisfied, I then used the same setup bar to adjust the pin to blade distance.


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## therealSteveN

I've had mine on 4 or 5 different TS's, and I have to do a complete set up each time I swap saws, but once it's set on a saw it's usually good to go. But I do a quick set up as shown in that video each time I use it, and I have to say I can usually make good cuts right out of the chute. The other part of the equation, not shown in the video is setting blade height, refer to the section in the instructions for that. On my booklet it's item 4, on page 9. Easy to do.

The jig is as well designed as a jig can be, if there are problems with your results, just start over, and do the set up, something you missed will fall into place. There are a few steps that while you are doing them, may seem like not much is happening, but it is. Just follow the steps.

https://incra.com/manuals/INCRA_IBOX_Manual_150dpi.pdf


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## Woodmaster1

I got a good fit first time out after the initial setup.


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## jefrench

I'm glad you brought this thread back up. I agree with MillerTime: don't use a router table. For some reason it does cut up at an angle and doesn't fit well at all. Thankfully I had Elmers wood filler and it matched my poplar shadowboxes. Thanks to the government I was able to upgrade my shop to a SawStop and I bought a Freud dado set. Yes I know that typical dadoes have a small point on ends of the cuts (ears). But that is acceptable considering the amount width adjustment I can do with that set compared to a two or three blades in box joint set. 
I probably don't need to tell you SawStop owners but I found out that if you get the right side metal plate too close to your blade guess what happens: BAM! It was the second time I used my Freud Dedo set so I very carefully peeled it out of the aluminum block! 
As for clamping, it's probably overkill but I use three clamps. I've never had a piece of stock move. I read from someone that he put sandpaper against the sacrificial board but that just makes it harder to slide the wood pieces over. Here's a picture of my clamp set up.


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## HokieKen

The clamping is my only real gripe with the functionality of the ibox jig. I've never had a real problem with getting it setup and getting good results. But when you're doing a bunch of drawers or boxes, clamping and unclamping the board gets mind-numbingly tedious. I wish they would have incorporated, or at least sold as an accessory, some sort of integral cam clamps. I considered using the t-track for the backer board and installing toggle clamps but I'm afraid the aluminum structure would flex.

If anyone has any quick-clamping methods, I'd love to see them! jefrench, your setup looks better than using a loose clamp for sure but screwing and unscrewing the clamps is still time consuming. If you use a third clamp as well, you definitely don't have to worry about the work moving


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## jefrench

Yes I use a small wood clamp on top. I made the 2×4 cradles for the side clamps so they don't fall off when I loosen them. The 2×4s are bolted to the T track so I can move them side to side. I set a scrap stock piece a little thinner than my work on the left side of the I box behind the blade guard and tighten that left clamp on the guard. That keeps the red blade guard from collapsing on the left and makes it easier to slide new work in and out on the right. I only unscrew the right clamp a turn to switch work. The only thing that takes time is putting on and taking off the wood clamp. I never tighten the incra blade guard screws. They're useless. I've never had a piece slide on me.


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## jefrench

I just discovered something! If you run the stock through the jig twice it slightly loosens up the joints! I also am making sure I cut connecting corners at the same time. Another idea is to made your stock slightly wider than uneven pins, then rip the excess for a consistent, flush width.


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## therealSteveN

> The clamping is my only real gripe with the functionality of the ibox jig. I ve never had a real problem with getting it setup and getting good results. But when you re doing a bunch of drawers or boxes, clamping and unclamping the board gets mind-numbingly tedious.
> - HokieKen


Kenny perhaps I am about to unknowingly call in the Incra police to arrest me, but I made my first 3 cuts with my I Box exactly as they suggested using a wooden hand clamp. After #2 I started wondering if all this clamping was really necessary. After number 3 I thought, gonna find out.

Because you are usually going to be cutting pieces taller than the fence is high I just grab the piece with both hands as far away from the blade as possible, and holding tight I push the jig through the cut.

After quite a few box joints I can't see that "hand clamping" is less stable, and the cuts match just as well as doing all the clamping.

It makes the work, much quicker, and a lot more pleasant.

Now if I was making a very small box, I'd get the clamps out again.


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## FBtool

I agree, I seldom use a clamp anymore either. Works just fine. I also added a vacuum port to the I-box that I use with my shop vac to keep the dust down. I'd post a photo, but I'm not sure how to do that on this site anymore.


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## wapakfred

Well, if this has turned into a confessional…I also use the tight hand hold method…..most of the time anyway.


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## HokieKen

Are you guys trying to encourage me to behave badly? ;-)

I have done the same. But, my hands get tired after a couple of boards. So if I'm running a big batch, I like to clamp to prevent sloppy cuts due to hand fatigue.

It sure would be nice to have a good way to clamp the work without the time it takes to do so. The hand screw clamps that Incra suggests using are just ridiculous. Way too awkward to put on and off repeatedly. I use speed clamps but it still takes longer than I'd like.


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## jefrench

You guys must have cow milking hands! (not an insult) I can't imagine my wood Not slipping while cutting without my 3 clamps. I've tried it! But yes I mostly cut narrow pieces.

Another thing I have to work around is no matter how exact I get my width to match pins cut by my dado blades, the last pin is narrower. I then have to make sure that the narrow pins on the ends are lined up on both sides of the box. If I don't, the non-pin pieces aren't flush on both ends. Hard to describe without pictures. Let me know if anyone else has this problem.


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## HokieKen

I always cut my boards a tad oversized and hand plane them to final size so I can be sure I don't get any unevenness.


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## jefrench

I have to do that too but when I split a 6 inch board for a frame it just barely gave me enough room to do seven pins


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## FBtool

I always make my boards wider than needed and finish cut the width after I'm done with the I-Box cuts. That way I have full joints top and bottom of my boxes.


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