# Gel Stain Problem



## SnowyRiver (Nov 14, 2008)

I recently finished a cabinet in cherry, using solids and cherry veneer plywood. I decided to try a gel stain (dark cherry color.) I have not had any experience with a gel before. At this point I am sorry I tried the gel on this project, but its too far along to turn back. I found when applying it to the cherry veneer plywood portions, the color was very even. When I applied it to the solid wood it became very blotchy and uneven. I tried several coats, wiping it down, and letting each coat dry before applying the next, but it always turned out uneven. Since the cherry that I had didnt have a lot of grain, I decided to brush on the gel like a paint and leave it dry. It turned out with a beautiful solid color, but I am not sure if this was the right thing to do. I would like to do several coats of poly for the final finish.

Suggestions?

Thanks


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## teenagewoodworker (Jan 31, 2008)

use gel poly as a finish. regular poly won't work. the surface is already sealed. what brand gel were you using? you shouldn't really get this with the a high quality one such as bartley or general finishes.


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## FlWoodRat (Sep 12, 2007)

Snowy, Check out Marc's video at TheWoodWhisper.com. He just released a short segiment that demonstrated the use of gel stains. His trick to prevent blotching was to precoat the wood with a 1# cut of varnish. Good luck


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## SnowyRiver (Nov 14, 2008)

Thanks for the tip teenagewoodworker on the gel poly…I certainly will give that a try. I used General stain. I was looking at it a bit ago, and as it is drying it left a very nice smooth finish, so I think I will let it dry and try the gel poly over it.

Also thanks FlWoodRat…I'll check out the site. I will remember this the next time.


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## SnowyRiver (Nov 14, 2008)

bentlyj…the gel is drying just like paint. I thought about taking a thinner and wiping it all off, but it has a very rich finish and very smooth, so I think I will just leave it and seal it afterwards. I'm afraid if I work it too much I will end up having to strip the cabinet, sand, and start over. I am satisfied with the way it looks, I just wasnt sure if the finish would be stable.


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## HokieMojo (Mar 11, 2008)

Just a warning, the caked on gel stain may cause adhesion problems. What I mean by this is, your next coat may stick to the gel stain, but the stain may not stick to the wood. I think you might need to sand it off. I don't think stain is meant to be layered on like a paint. I hope you get some more good suggestions. If it were me, I'd probably sand/scrape it off.


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## BigTim (Jan 17, 2008)

In the future I would use the dewaxed 1lb cut shellac sealer coat on any cherry, especially any project that has a combination of solid & venered cherry. It's the only way to be positive you will not have a blothchy problem.

As to a finish coat on what you now have--HokieMojo is right in warning you. It may or may not come back to haunt you. If you like the look you have now I'd try a sealer coat of shellac to be safe® The risk is your's to weigh.


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## SnowyRiver (Nov 14, 2008)

Thanks for all the tips and help folks. I am going to take many of your advice and do the dewaxed shellac over the stain. I did a test piece of stain on another piece of cherry and it dried very hard so since I like the color, I will shellac it and then do the top coat of gel poly.


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## Pimzedd (Jan 22, 2007)

flwoodrat mentioned Marc's video at The Wool Whisperer. Go to The Wood Whisperer 's site and you can view episode 73 - Coloring Blotchy Woods. It might give you some ideas in the future.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Hey Wayne
If you use Gel stain again keep in mind that gel should be an excellent choice for blotchy woods but people have to make sure you get the thickest gel stain you can and don't over kill it by rubbing it in any more than
necessary it's meant to stay on the surface, that's why it's a good choice for blotchy woods. a 1/2 pound - 1 pound cut of dewaxed shellac usually is a good idea before you apply many finishes. The bottom line on any finishing project is to use sample pieces before you start staining you project and only after your happy with your sample should you go ahead finishing your project. It also helps taking notes of how you achieved the finish on your sample. Charles Neil has a great DVD set and you tube stuff on finishing.


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## SnowyRiver (Nov 14, 2008)

^^^Thanks for the info. This was the first time I had tried a gel stain. I did try it on a scrap first as I always do. It looked great on the scrap. It actually turned out very nice, considering I didnt know much about what I was doing.  I was starting to get nervous about it at first. Especially after putting in all the hours building the piece…didnt want to ruin it in the stain process. I appreciate the your input. After struggling a bit with it, I located my book on wood finishes by Bob Flexner and that helped a lot. I will certainly keep your tips in mind and set out to get Charles Neils DVD. I now have the project completed so I will shoot some pixs when I get a chance and post them so all can see how it worked out.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Gel stains are designed to lay on the surface ,thus preventing blotching, but on stubborn woods it can happen..the plywood didnt blotch because there isnt enough thickness of wood to really absorb alot of the stain…what blotch control equates to is balancing the wood surface in so much as its ability to absorb , a thin coat of shellac (1/2lb) cut on the solid wood would probably get you close to the plywood, but always test on a scrap piece, and let the barrier coat,wash coat, spit coat or whatever you choose to call it dry , if you arent geting a nice even stain, you need more "solids", or simply put a heavier cut of shellac..here is the deal….the thinner the barrier coat the less solids you are putting on, the heavier ,more solids..the key is to get the balance ..too much solids and it doesnt want to take the stain, too little it blotches…wish there was a magic formula but there isnt, I have found however that use of a waterbased barrier coat is easier than a solvent based…and solvent can be applied over it…the waterbased products seem to allow for better coloring than solvent…here is a thread on my forum where you can see a little more on this http://www.freeforum101.com/charlesneil/viewtopic.php?t=302&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45&mforum=charlesneil

Its at the bottom of page 4…here is where pine ( one of the worst), is being stained, you can see the trial and error that was needed to get the correct balance…as well as some good tips…hope it helps


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