# dowels are TOO tight. What to do?



## spaids (Apr 15, 2008)

I have 1/2" dowels and a 1/2" forstner bit. The trouble is the dowels are VERY tight. I only need them to go in about 1/4 inch deep into the 1/2" forstner drilled holes.

First: is this common? My forstner bit set is a super el cheapo and I'm wondering if thats the root of my trouble.

Second: It is what it is so hows the best way to deal with it? I guessing sanding the ends of the dowels till the fit is the best way to go. Got any ideas for making this fast and or easy?

Thanks


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## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

Either sand or get a new 1/2" bit.


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

try a half inch drill lip and spur is good and see if that helps.You need to make the hole bigger the dowel can't be made smaller realistically easily so keep trying with a standard drill. Actually I never heard of anyone using a forstner for dowels although it' should work fine what made you go down that route in the first place


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## SplinteredBoard (Jul 11, 2008)

Waid,
What did you do to get the walnut 'bar' centered on the middle of the back dowels? Did you get those together? Or are you just trying to get the dowel ends into one of the pieces first?

I would probably try sanding, but even then, there's no room for expansion when you finally get them in the mortises.

Have you tried taking a sharp chisel to the ends? I'm not saying that's the best way to go, but I've done it in the past. Yeah, it looked messy, but I got them in the mortises.

Again, though, think about the bar you have to slip over half of the dowels in the back…

-Rick


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## tenontim (Feb 24, 2008)

It's usually better to have them a little on the tight side, especially if you're only driving them in 1/2". Could be your dowels and not your bit. Most of the dowels you buy are imports and they are closer to a metric size than standard.


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## spaids (Apr 15, 2008)

Scotsman: I a complete uneducated and inexperienced newcomer. So I just try the first thing that comes to mind. I needed flat bottom 1/2" holes and grabbed a forstner bit. If there is a better way I'd love to learn.

Rick: I'm good with that bar in the back. I took a piece of 1/4" dowel and wrapped it in sandpaper and chucked it up in my drill press. Since that back piece has holes all the way through I just slipped it on on the little dowel and sanded the inside of the wholes.

So is this the result of a cheap forstner set?


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## rsharp (May 6, 2008)

Waid, I'm facing the exact same situation myself (3/8" though). Was going to address it this evening and try to come up with a solution. Your's is a great idea!! Thank you!!

BTW, I did put a caliper to the dowels and found that three coats of poly was just enough to make them too big for a comfortable fit.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Hey spaids
Your problem could be that your dowels have been storied were it's moist and have swelled a little bit so if you put them in a micro for a short time that might help and or your forstner bit is under size. I think you could have chucked your dowel in your drill press and sanded them as well. Good thinking on your aproach.


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## printman (Apr 1, 2007)

I don't know when you were working on that project but with St. Louis weather (Rain every three or four days) maybe your dowels swelled from the humidity. Do you keep them in a dry place?


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## spaids (Apr 15, 2008)

Hey man I'm just down the road from you (O'Fallon) and I was working on this project this weekend and you know it was raining the whole time. Hmmmmm…


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

They should be snug, but if they really don't fit, either your dowel is too big (moisture or poor manufacturing), or your hole is too small. 

There is no need for a flat-bottomed hole since the dowels are not going all the way to the bottom anyway. A standard twist drill or brad-point bit will be easier to work witj, and a little wiggle when drilling will give you a bit bigger hole to accept the dowel.


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## Kindlingmaker (Sep 29, 2008)

I have bought several dowels from the same store at the same time and most of them were all different sizes, not by much but enough to want to turn some of them into kindling. ...also, if you heavily flute the dowels that too will add in their instalation and getting past that piston thing.


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## Chipncut (Aug 18, 2006)

I some times crimp the dowels with a pliers to shrink them.

They will swell back to normal when glued.

This is the way they make biscuits for joining with a biscuit joiner.


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## damianpenney (Jun 22, 2007)

You might also try sawing/filing/chiseling some grooves in the dowel (if they don't already have grooves) because if they are air tight, and there is nowhere for the air/glue to go…


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## kerflesss (Mar 7, 2009)

Hi Spaids, Drill a hole in a piece of steel the same as the drilled hole and run you dowels through it. I use my vintage WWII drill gage which has all the sizes I need…


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## spaids (Apr 15, 2008)

Randy,

What solution are you referring to? I've come up with nothing yet. That sandpaper wrapped down thing is only good for the through cuts and I think I got that idea from Rick.

There are some very good ideas on this thread. I think if I'm not able to crimp the ends I'll try cutting the thinnest kerf I can in the end.

Should the kerf go with the grain or against it? I'm guessing the dowel could split over time if I do this wrong.


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## mtnwild (Sep 28, 2008)

I do what Dick and Barb said. Gives more glue surface too. 
I usually touch up dowels before using. Soft wood dowels will swell. But I'm in the moist NW.


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## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

Great idea Dick!

I never thought of that.

I don't hardly ever use dowels, but I will remember that.


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## FJPetruso (Mar 29, 2008)

Hi Spaids…

I had a problem with oversized dowels when making one of my rojects. Since the dowels were oversized they didn't thread properly. I found this item at the Japan Woodwoker. You might look into using one of these dowel rounding planes or make your own dowels with a router or molding head.

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=99.017.04&dept_id=13621


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## jcsterling (Aug 1, 2008)

I agree with Jim. Put the dowels in the microwave for about 15-20 seconds to get some of the swelling down.


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## DanLyke (Feb 8, 2007)

Yeah, I have a Toast-R-Oven™ in the shop for biscuits and Dominos, but I'm betting tossing the dowel in an oven at 160-180F for a few minutes would probably solve your issue quickly and easily.


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## spaids (Apr 15, 2008)

Hmmm I will be cooking up some Dowel casserole very soon.


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## boboswin (May 23, 2007)

Don't fit em in too tight or they could split your wood later whent he humidity shifts.

damhikt.
Biscuits can pucker the surface of your work too so a sloppy fit is better there too.

Bob


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## rsharp (May 6, 2008)

Waid,

I tried wrapping sandpaper around a dowel last night, using double-stick tape on a 1/4 dowel to help open a 3/8" through hole. On Oak, it was not worth the effort on 20 pieces. I resigned to re-drill my current 3/8" through hole with a 7/16 bit, but left about 1/16 of the hole at 3/8. In other words, I didn't drill the entire hole with the 7/16 bit.

I found that I get a tight fit with the 1/16 to hold it in place, and the extra 1/16 on the rest of the hole gave me some glue area.

For the Fortsner "non-though" hole, I didn't have a 7/16 bit, so I made it at 3/8 and will sand down the dowel for a snug fit, then glue. Since my depth is only 5/8" deep, this will not be a lot of work.


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## spaids (Apr 15, 2008)

Randy

When I wrapped the dowel I used spray glue on both the dowel and the back of the strip of sandpaper. It worked well for what I was doing but it was tedious and time consuming. I only did it on 5 holes though.

Is that a Frisbee golf trophy? .... Nice!


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## kimball (May 16, 2009)

Lie- Neilson has a dowel sizing plate.
Good Luck, 
Kimball


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## boboswin (May 23, 2007)

NEVER BUY ANOTHER DOWEL!









http://www.fine-tools.com/duebelherstellung.htm
OR
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=52401&cat=1,180,42288
BOB


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## chriswright (Nov 13, 2008)

If you're doweling joints, you could also check this out:

http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=146449&FamilyID=5410

It cuts the groves in the sides of the dowl, can also make it a little easier to tap into the hole.


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## spaids (Apr 15, 2008)

Well this is how I took care of it.









After closer inspection these dowels were NOT round. Go figure! So I decided that , although nuking em would have been quick and easy, sanding was merited.


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## Chipncut (Aug 18, 2006)

Fluted dowels are better because they won't hydraulic and split your board.

Crimping them with a mechanics plier is the same as fluting.


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## gfixler (Feb 21, 2009)

I don't think I saw anyone recommend what I would do, which probably says a lot about the sanity of what I would do  I'd chuck the dowels in my drill, hold some sand paper on the end, and drive them for a moment to sand the ends quickly.


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## Kindlingmaker (Sep 29, 2008)

Gary I'm with ya there but I use the drill press and a sanding block, (when needed).


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## spaids (Apr 15, 2008)

Hey guys thats funny! I did try that. I chucked one up in my drill press and ran it. It did work but for me it didn't work great. If I had adjusted the drill speed maybe it would have worked better for me.


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

Sorry I didn't read your post properly I thought of dowelling full hidden dowels not just using the drill to make a tenon this is not dowelling as such then maybe it is just the slight difference between out languages technically yes it's dowel rod. Anyway if I had read it correctly in the first place I would have reccomended what you eventually did your self.So you see your just like me a damn genius LOL well done there's a bit of Scottish blood somewhere in your veins Bonnie lad LOLregards Alistair


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## longgone (May 5, 2009)

I just drilled 84 holes for 42 dowels to edge glue a table top. Sheeesh! I'm buying a biscuit joiner tomorrow. I had to sand about 17 of the dowels to get a good fit. I bought a new brad point bit afterwards and it does make for a better fit but who's to say what will happen when I buy my next bag of dowels. Too many variables. Best to make my own dowels.


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## spaids (Apr 15, 2008)

Aye Scotsman!

Greg… dude… 42 dowels to edge glue a table top! ouch. GET A BISCUIT JOINER! I'd say you earned it. My porter cable biscuit joiner would have done that job in about 5 minutes.


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## boboswin (May 23, 2007)

I have read repeatedly that our modern glues are stronger than the wood they join in most cases.
It is also suggested that dowels and biscuits be used for alignement rather than strength.

I just wonder if we are on the wrong track here with trying to snug up these dowels to compensate a weak joint?

Bob


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## spaids (Apr 15, 2008)

Bob,

I have done a poor job explaining what I'm doing. You're right about the strength issue and I too have heard the gospel of modern glues. I think if you are using dowels for alignment though, wouldn't a correct fit be more important then in any other dowel use situation? If I was to glue up an edge glue situation I would use naive blind faith in my biscuit joiner. I say naive because of my lack of experience. In my situation here let me post a pick of my goal.










I should have posted this right away! Sorry about that guys. Thanks for the tremendous support with this quesiton. I've gained a great deal of dowel tricks from this thread.

PS notice the smaller dowels in the sides. I placed those there for strength no alignment. I feared the strength of a glue joint alone there because there is only end grain to long grain contact.


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## boboswin (May 23, 2007)

I thought you were talking about these:








Turns out you are using these:









One is semi precison hardwood like beech etc the other is probably off shore from China and is approximate at best and most likely smells moldy if you sniff it.

It so much easier if you give us a pic before you ask a question so we can be more helpfull .


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## Chipncut (Aug 18, 2006)

If you want a perfect, & strong edge to edge glue joint, get one of these edge to edge router bits.

You'll never need dowels or biscuits again. I've glued a lot of things this way.


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