# Get Rid Of Nonshop Talk



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Martin, I call for a vote of the membership on eliminating the nonshop talk forum. What say you all?


----------



## DIYaholic (Jan 28, 2011)

Keep It.


----------



## danr (Sep 5, 2009)

get rid of it


----------



## darinS (Jul 20, 2010)

Keep it. There is some good stuff there if you ignore the political rants.


----------



## Viking (Aug 26, 2009)

It has nothing to do with woodworking and has become a big distraction to what Lumberjocks is about.

Tempers lost, enemies made. It has gone well beyond its original intent.

My 2cents worth.


----------



## doughan (Apr 22, 2011)

polite discussion in todays world mmeans not discussing politics…...which has led us to the leaders we have today(yes from both major parties)

If a free society ignores the issues that confront us as problems we will ultimately lose the free portion of the aforementioned society.

argue away just get a thicker skin and don't be an irational idiot about it.(you know who I mean)

If you don't it just might be you


----------



## xwingace (Apr 25, 2011)

Where would I go for dog pictures and bad jokes?!?


----------



## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

+ 1000 doughan


----------



## KnickKnack (Aug 20, 2008)

Keep it.
Sure, once in a while things get ugly, but I've learned a lot about a whole range of things of an off-topic flavo(u)r.

I was thinking about this a while back, and I thought - If my local bar was basically populated by woodworkers I'd go, of course, but I wouldn't expect someone to monitor my conversations and stop me if I drifted onto a non-woodworking topic. If I started shouting and screaming abuse I would, but not otherwise.


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Xwingace, you would go to the dog pictures website and the bad jokes website.


----------



## Jeff28078 (Aug 27, 2009)

Been asked for before. If you don't like it don't look at it.


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Jeff, but I got to. If it's there then I have to look. Sort of like Pandora's box…


----------



## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

The trouble is certain people here cannot discuss without becoming bad temperred, even hostile/beligerrent to each other they should be desuaded from discussion otherwise the rest of us can have a discussion without as I was once accused of trying to start a bloodbath because I congratulated you on your new president OBAMA .No Bloodbath ensued despite negative vibes from one writer.Alistair


----------



## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I would just point out that the site operators have gone to great lengths to reach a happy medium on this issue. Those who do not wish to participate in any off-topic discussions no longer even have to view the titles of these posts, much less participate in those threads.

I don't particularly care for the political name-calling topics, so I rarely read or take part in them. However, I do enjoy getting to know my fellow Lumberjock's better through discussions related to other hobbies and interests not related to woodworking. Must we really throw the baby out with the bathwater?

DKV, I can't speak to what your specific motivation is. But whenever someone calls for removal of the off-topic forum, I can't help but wonder why they read posts that they know are likely to upset them. It almost seems like they *know* they can't control themselves. They *know* they are going to read the posts, and they* know* they are going to get angry and upset, so they want Martin to remove the temptation which they *know* they are unable to resist.

Bottom line, IMO, is that the off-topic post issue has already been appropriately dealt with by the site owners.


----------



## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

I think it enriches the site.
Many many non-woodworking topics are great; MS Debbies photos for instance.
I don't mind an ocassional referenct to other topics, even politics.

What I don't like, and I think, what a lot of others don't like are posts that are intended to incite a riot.
Like that thing yesterday that started out with "Okay all you smarty pants Obama Haters". Now that was purely trolling for a fight. That is the type of crap I think we all can do without.


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

I also like the "good" posts in nonshop talk. That's why I read them. I like pix of dogs, bad jokes and trees. Maybe we could just say no politics and religion. That way we wouldn't have to hide the nonshop talk subject lines. I would officially change my subject line from get rid of nonshop talk to get rid of politics and religion. There are plenty of sites to discuss both…
Don


----------



## ShipWreck (Feb 16, 2008)

I say keep it. But moderate the the the posts that are generated for the intentional purpose of working people into a frenzy. Those guys know who they are.


----------



## GrandpaLen (Mar 6, 2012)

The best Defence is a good Offence.

Smile, Shake or Nod your head and Walk away unscathed.

Click your Mouse and move on. - Len


----------



## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

I like cake..can we have a cake forum?


----------



## BrandonW (Apr 27, 2010)

I like it, but do really need the politics and religion talk? I'm all about the other non-shop topics.


----------



## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

What?!? there is a Non-Shoptalk forum?

I can honestly say that it does not upset me at all. I am completely uninterested in politics and religion, and do not even bother checking ANY of the threads that might suggest going there - not even political jokes - and I do like jokes).

I do however like the nonshop thread about other interests of fellow LJs like the photography threads, and the jokes threads, and some other mind-expanding threads that go beyond the woodworking realm.

I really don't think it's that hard avoiding that which you want to avoid. taking it away for everyone - now that's not very nice is it?


Cheers


----------



## carver (Nov 4, 2010)

this is the first time I have looked at off topic forums. My first thought…......The lack of maturity is phenomenal!!! Personally I wear my hair almost to my waist just to make sure the Haters have something to hate. Self induced minority. It's like trolling for ignorance. keep the forum but don't waiste your time readind dribble…..A sure sign of ignorance is when you think you know everything.


----------



## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

"..... but I got to. If it's there then I have to look. Sort of like Pandora's box…"

That sounds more like a weakness on your part than a problem with this site. At my age, I should know better, but I'm always amazed at people who want to impose their ideals on everyone else. Have you ever heard 
"Live and let live?"


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

I admit my curiosity is a weakness of mine. I also admit that I like most of the topics on nonshop talk. I'm not trying to change the world just trying to get rid of two no win situations…politics and religion discussions. That's all Sawkerf, just that.
Also, when guys start calling each gay and talking trash about their wives and fiances and discussing with god whether or not they should publicly disgrace a member, then something is wrong and that is not "live and let live". I still say get rid of politics and religion and keep dog pix, bad jokes and great looking trees. I love the scenery pix also…


----------



## HamS (Nov 10, 2011)

If you get rid of it, then the discussion will just happen in the other forums. It is my experience that people who want to silence others are mostly afraid of what the others might say. Ideas are what free thought and expression is all about. There really is not much of a problem here and if there is it is dealt with so why try to create one?


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

I do not believe in organized religion and I vote independent. Not much to fear there. Ham, I can truthfully say your life experiences do not fit me. I agree with the free thought and expression, but a lot of it gets nasty and degrading.
Also, I do not see how a discussion concerning saws, wood or planes could evolve to a discussion on politics or religion. IMO


----------



## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

Where would I go to make people look foolish about their points of view?

Rule number 2: The most fun you can have in this world is at someone else's expense.

My kids were brought up on some of these rules.

The first one is; Everything you need to know in life you can learn from Star Trek.


----------



## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

I like dog pics too!


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Brad, I like cake as long as it is chocolate. If you do not like chocolate cake then you do not know what the hell you are talking about. It's chocolate or nothing…I say so. And, I'm always right.


----------



## ShipWreck (Feb 16, 2008)

What a beaut dog Brad.


----------



## ShipWreck (Feb 16, 2008)

My "Suzie" after a hard morning of chasing ducks out of the back yard.


----------



## jackass (Mar 26, 2008)

Definately do not
Jack


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Jack, how about we keep nonshop talk and get rid of politics and religion?


----------



## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

Maybe we just make a seperate Non-shop talk forum just for Religion and Politics.
It's the equivelant strategy of "put 'em in a room and let 'em duke it out."

The other Non-shop talk forum would be for everything else like dogs, trees and lame jokes.

On the other hand, I like it just the way it is. (I have enough self control to stay away from obvious politcal and religious topics)

Kindly disregard everything I just said.


----------



## dhazelton (Feb 11, 2012)

If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out. Or just ignoring those posts might be easier.


----------



## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

I've been away from LJ's for a few months, the 'Great Jock War of 2012' in the NSTF was just too much for me.

It got to the point where people were slagging each others projects off.

Not pretty.

Not nice.

Not something I wanted to be associated with.

Lots of shouting and even threats of physical abuse and wishes of ill-fortune to fellow Lumberjocks.

Surprising carry-on for a website whose average age of member must be 58+?

The problem isn't the NSTF, the problem is the behaviour of just a handful of members who are constantly spoiling for a fight. They each have their camps, and each have their followers. The NSTF is not moderated and the bigots and trolls get away with winding each other up.

They love it.

They can't get enough.

Don't ban religion and politics, don't get rid of the NSTF (where else would we see the genius of moment), just do something about the bad apples. 
I don't know what's going on currently that's making you want to get rid of the NSTF, but to do so would be throwing the baby out with the bath water. There have been some absolutely priceless comic gems in the past. Lose the NSTF and you lose them too.


----------



## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

Dont like it dont look at it.

I have seen fights over wood and tools too.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

!



!


----------



## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

Shipwreck…cool dogie..Lets make it..only pics of your dog on a couch..and chocolate cake..


----------



## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

We should probably ban discussions of Sawstop and BLO while we're at it. Those two topics create a lot of controversy.


----------



## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

David, do you have a pic of a dog eating a chocolate cake? (Hmmmmm….. never mind. Dogs aren't supposed to eat chocolate.)


----------



## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

OK..let me get it straight…no politics, no religion, no Saw Stop, no BLO, no debates about metric/Inches…
Yes to dogs, dogs on couches, chocolate cake, and dogs eating cake…but no to dogs on couches eating chocolate cake?


----------



## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Speaking of dogs, dogs have tails. Let's also ban the discussion of whether to cut tails or pins first.


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

We can ban whatever you want to ban as long as politics and religion are on the list. See, I can accomodate everyone. Except when it comes to R&P. and angel food cake. and strawberry ice cream. and cherries on top of a choc..well cherries on top of anything. Anything else we should ban?


----------



## JollyGreen67 (Nov 1, 2010)

Chocolate will kill a dog.


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

So we ban dogs…


----------



## Eric_S (Aug 26, 2009)

Keep the forum but bring back the Coffee Lounge rules. No politics, no religion.

I don't want to silence anyone, I just don't want to come to a woodworking website to read or see titles related to it. Period. I'll visit somewhere else when I'm in that sort of mood. For now, I just want to relax and look at some amazing woodworking projects and posts


----------



## SchottFamily (Jul 30, 2011)

<sarcasm> ... and after that, maybe we can hit the library and burn some books. </sarcasm>

For me, this site has been of great educational and entertainment value. I can't believe I get to be a member for free. Everyone on here is always willing to throw out a thought or suggestion no matter what my question - wood related or not. It's been great. I'm hard pressed to think of where I've come across a better "community".

That being said, if someone wants to create a post about wanting to legalize their right to marry their chinchilla who used to be their sister in a past life, I couldn't care less. If it doesn't interest me, I don't participate. I don't let it ruin my life, and I certainly don't feel the need to silence anyone… unless they're a fan of Twilight. Those people seriously need to go. They creep me out.


----------



## jeepturner (Oct 3, 2010)

Keep it. I like to know where people stand, on all things. 
It should be moderated, but don't get rid of it.


----------



## shinju (Apr 11, 2009)

Keep it…if you don't like the forum don't go there,free choice is what's it about…...shinju


----------



## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I don't participate on non-shop too much. I do look at it on and off. Don't have too much of a problem with something when I'm free to open it up and close it when I please. The way the owners of the site have done it you really have to go out of your way to look for it. To me it's just fine the way it is. If people want to argue with each other they'll just do it in another section so why not keep it off to the side and out of the way?

helluvawreck
https://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


----------



## joebloe (Feb 13, 2012)

keep it,if you don't like it don't look at it.If someone starts getting mean and nasty ,block them .


----------



## RussellAP (Feb 21, 2012)

Lose it, or ban political subjects.


----------



## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

To those asking for moderators to step in…
Is that really the solution?
Appoint someone else to see if your thoughts/posts are OK based on their world view?

Why would anyone WANT a * thought police*?

I am really curious - if DKV was personally attacked and caught up in the fray that he is asking for this now.
I was thinking it has been really tame/quiet for the past month or so….WHAT HAPPENED??


----------



## KMTSilvitech (Feb 10, 2011)

I enjoy reading the Non shop talk forum for the most part and I think with *bett**er moderation* we should keep it. The few members that are constantly provoking and insulting other members should be blocked from the site altogether.


----------



## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

Don't look at me..I flamed out a while ago but I haven't even gone in any political threads since…


----------



## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

Where is the horizontal one anyway?


----------



## Gregn (Mar 26, 2010)

Some of us still remember not long ago the big flame war that went on here at Lumberjocks, and others may not remember, or are newer members that aren't aware of the flame war that went on.
The flame war got so bad that the Coffee Lounge was closed, now renamed the Non-Shop Talk. There were many who requested for the return of the Coffee Lounge which is now the Non-shop Talk forum.

So DKV asks a valid question to what we think about the subject of closing the Non-Shop Talk forum. Well when the Coffee Lounge closed DKV, subject matter that was more for the Coffee Lounge filtered into the other forums causing some chaos. So the Non-Shop Talk forum opened to allow for off topic talk. As you probably noticed that some lessons were learned as a result of the flame war. One of which is that an off topic thread is no longer listed by its title instead by the comment off topic content and refers you to the Non-Shop Talk forum. Which means those who choose not to read such threads aren't offended by their titles.

So if you choose to open that thread after reading the off topic content title. Then you have no complaint about the forum or its contents. To suggest banning, blocking or restricting what threads should or shouldn't be allowed, starts with you. Instead of banning, blocking or restricting other members. It is you who should be doing it to yourself.

So what do I care about political or religious threads, I don't read them, because I have my own views and sources to satisfy my need. If I should open one and be offended, then its on me not to respond, block, banned or restrict because I don't agree with their point of view.

If we can't control ourselves, then who are we to try and control others? The responsibility begins with ourselves first and foremost. When we begin to do that as members, then we will see a change in the type of threads we read in any of the forums.

So, since I like cake and other peoples dogs. I don't care what kind they are as long as their good.


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Greg, chocolate cake, right?


----------



## Gregn (Mar 26, 2010)

As long as its good.


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

I did not realize there was such a thing as "not good" chocolate


----------



## REK (Aug 30, 2009)

I don't use it … but keep it. why keep it? Because it's a good place to hear liberals rant.

Keep it because I despise the nanny state. why should some joker from CA. control what is said and not said?

Keep Religion in because we all need God (If you step in front of a moving truck you will get run over), like the moving truck one day we all realize our need for God.

Keep politics, because it makes some feel better to have there opinion known.

Moderators are useless, unless Martin, would hire me to do the job at $ 200,000.00 per year with a 5 year contract (hint hint Martin).


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Thank you, Bob. You are my fear (and example) incarnate.


----------



## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

The ones who desire *outside* moderation to decide what messages should be permitted are assuming that there is some totally impartial and omnipotent force, that will control debate without choosing sides are perhaps being a bit too optimistic.

I recall a number of heated debates about the *project page *- where some members posted a tool refurbishment as a project - - which was taken down by moderators, but no PM went to the poster about it. They just find out in the morning, that the project they posted last night and maybe had a few comments poste on it, disappeared!
So then they start threads asking "what rules were broken?" and "Why did MY project/post get whacked and not XYZ's post"

I think bringing in a panel of moderators to begin combing through the site whacking posts they feel are inappropriate, will put the site into a death spiral very quickly, as the moderator becomes the champion of one sides arguments considering the point of view they agree with "debate" and the oppostion point of view "propaganda to be deleted"

So I still ask the PRO moderator side, that from a PRACTICAL point of view, what would the moderator solve….. not what the INTENT of having them is, but *once someone is hired to delete posts, how does the site get better?*


----------



## SchottFamily (Jul 30, 2011)

Gosh - I've got 5 kids, and I've got to tell you, this reminds me of one of those "Daaaaad, he's loooking at meeeeee" moments. Grow up. Ignore it if you don't like it. Shameful.


----------



## stonedlion (Jan 12, 2011)

Keep it.

*But* for the love of all things Holy, people do you really need to drag your politics with you like a bag of dirty laundry to a woodworking site?


----------



## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

I have a chocolate lab that i think she is a Baptist can i ban her she keep digging hole around every where **


----------



## cranbrook2 (May 28, 2006)

Politics are the root of all evil !! ;-)
I have been here almost 6 years and one of the reasons i never notice the politics and bologna on here is because i am too busy working in my shop


----------



## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Off topic post are good as long as they are posted in the off topic forum. That way I have a choice to read them or not. Those who don't want to read OT post stay out of that forum.

It"s like going into a restaurant, look at the menu and pick what you like. But don't be so dammed controlling that you want items removed from the menu just because you don't like a certain foods.


----------



## davidmicraig (Nov 21, 2009)

I have come to the conclusion, a long time ago, that you cannot legislate a sense of morality or stop human nature. In schools, for example, they try to come up with lists of words that students are not allowed to say and then find themselves overwhelmed because new words with the same meanings as the old "bad" words start making their way around the playground. I have witnessed the closing of the coffee shop and then watched as the same political and religious views would start entering the woodworking areas. You are not going to stop it and if you can't stop it, might as well provide a home that is separate from the rest. If you really want to make in impact here, stick to the woodworking areas, and make your own posts such that would serve as an example to the rest of the folks here.


----------



## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

Out of all seriousness-
A lot of us make money on what we do woodworking wise. A lot of us have had a lot of problems of late finacially - mostly because of the state of the economy.

Frustrations are at an all time high, as are anxieties and in some cases, families being able to continue and support themselves - things are really serious out there across the world.

I am all for people venting their frustrations, and ideas and views on what they see is wrong - if they don't vent they will in other ways - even worse. If it gets to be too much, I walk away for a while. Every person what a view on what they see is right and wrong, much the way they make pins or tails first, saw and chisel them or use a router. For them - it is what works.

If we cannot see this, deal with this, and work with others, how the hell are we going to work with tempermental wood?


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Eddie, love chocolate labs…eat them all the time…seriously she doesn't preach does she?


----------



## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

I never had a chocolate lab. Chocolate bunnies are really good, though.


----------



## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

click the pulse button

at the top of the header is

*hide off-topic titles*

and pesto
you won't even know
what they are about
and won't be tempted to read them


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Patron, but I want to read them. As said earlier…good jokes, nice pix and the occasional chess game. That's what nonshop is all about IMHO


----------



## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^Pesto?
I love Italien food
Edit: DKV, I've promised myself 100 times to stay out of there. I simply can't resist.


----------



## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Will this be next?


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

What do you mean "next"? That's the way it is now. No blood but a lot of assassinations and accusations.


----------



## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

that was funny dr dirt lol


----------



## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Thanks one of my engineers had just e-mailed the link with a coment about how the next department meeting could go…..I cracked-up and thought how timely!


----------



## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

I don't understand why some people don't get it, this site makes money for every click, every post no matter what it is about, it's a volume thing.

I say lets ban people being busy bodies.

Actually while we are at it lets ban people calling tools junk because that may hurt someones feelings that has said tool and likes it…..


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

busybody [ˈbɪzɪˌbɒdɪ]n pl -bodiesa meddlesome, prying, or officious person

Anyone we know, Pat?


----------



## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

I don't have any ownership in this but if I did I would sure be annoyed by people telling me "I would make enough money if…"

DKV, yea you.


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Sorry I upset you Pat, but I thought you would back me and my opinions. After all I do get an opinion…don't I? Did I call you a busybody? No, and I wouldn't. It's all the name calling in nonshop talk during political and religious posts that wears on me.
Don


----------



## patcollins (Jul 22, 2010)

DKV, I'm sorry that was uncalled for. This topic comes up so often though, usually people wanting to keep people from talking about something is because they disagree with most of what is said about whatever topic.

Part of my response was to Katdaddy's post other sites do just fine without…..thats well and good but its the site owners decision.


----------



## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

Time for another dog picture..My Sadie when she was a puppy


----------



## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

There are sites that ban political discussions…. Doubt their membership and posting numbers (counting clicks) is nearly as high as Lumberjocks.

What site are doing so well? - - that is about *user input *as content, because Sure, Amazon.com is doing great! but that doesn't really count.


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

How come she's not chocolate?


----------



## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

thats a good looking dog *Brad_Nailor * somebody go tell *CharlieM1958 we found who been getting the chocolate Easter bunnies  **


----------



## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)




----------



## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

heres my dog


----------



## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

*brad nailor* i did have one of those dog a long time ago he was a great dog and very smart for a dog i miss him he was a good friend


----------



## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

Thanks Eddie..great breed..I love all dogs but I am not sorry I got a golden!


----------



## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

I'm sure everyone has read these and understands them…
but I thought it was appropriate to remind us that there IS a set of rules for posting in non-shop topics forum.
The guiding rule being-PLAY NICE. I think we all know what the should mean for our personal behaviour here. (Emphasis added)

1.Posting Rules 
•*Play nice. Keep it civil and respectful and appropriate for all ages.*
•Spam, advertising, pornography and *personal attacks *will not be tolerated.
•Remember to make sure that you are posting to the appropriate site category before hitting the submit button. (Inappropriate postings will be deleted and will not be retrievable.)

2.Ownership of Postings 
•LumberJocks makes no claim of ownership to the postings. Your material remains your property.
•All postings must fit within the guidelines of the site and may be edited by the site's Moderators, without notice, to fit within the posting rules.
•Postings may be used in the LumberJocks' eMag, and our other newsletters, currently the GardenTenders' News, as well as the LumberJocks' Facebook Fan Page.
•If a member chooses to leave the site, he/she has the choice of letting the postings remain or be removed.

*3.Non-shop Talk *
In order to keep the Projects, Blogs and Forums as "woodworking-related only" as well as to provide a place for members to socialize about things other than woodworking, we have introduced a "Non-shop Talk" section, located here.

*The rules are the same as above. The "Non-shop Talk", although not about woodworking, is still a component of the site and the same rules and expectations apply. "Play nice" sums it up nicely.*

4.Monitoring 
Due to the high activity on the site it is impossible to read everything that is posted and so we rely on the flagging system to monitor posts. If you see something that you feel is inappropriate, whether it is in the wrong location, is deemed "spam" or is offensive in some manner, flag it and we will look into it as soon as we can.

5.Projects 
Over the past year we have tried to get the site back on track as a woodworking showcase. What is appropriate for the projects section? Things made with wood. Tool Refurbishings? Absolutely - when it is the wood component that is being refurbished. Other refurbishings can be discussed in a blog or in the Woodworking Tools Forum. Non-wood material made with woodworking tools? Blog about it. We love to see woodworkers thinking outside the box with his/her craft but we also want to keep the projects section for wood-working only.


----------



## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

I'll see your Leonard Cohen and raise you a dancing dog…


----------



## KMTSilvitech (Feb 10, 2011)

Quick, someone throw me a chocolate easter bunny!


----------



## vipond33 (Jul 25, 2011)

Back to the original posting question.
I think the NSTF should stay. I think it's essential for the health of the site for many of the very perceptive reasons given above.
But I do believe in moderators (those that reconcile extreme positions). They are them and they are us (as Pogo would say.) If you can't ever believe in the capacity for good judgment then we are at an impasse.

It is not only a question of politics and religion
It's also not a question of temptation or blindness for there are posts that you know you must be reading. They're important, even more important than the ones that seem just for you.

When DKV made his remarks on Post #23, I believe he was talking about "Wrong On Many Levels", a thread since deleted. It was a public shaming of an old and well respected member here. This was shameful in itself, destructive in its fury and deserved to be deleted an instant after it was posted.

For this was a private affair as Moment reminded us..Yet here were people coming forward in attack and defense that rarely post, and for this reason, I believe the forum should stay - but we must be really part of it. There are no observers, there are no disciples at second hand.
gene

It's interesting to think how this deleted thread is really not so gone as it lives on in many hard drives, ignoring the concept of Stalinist revisionist history (amusing to us now) whereby you could erase a person by erasing their photograph. Some things are worth remembering.


----------



## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

If it's not liked, DO NOT READ it…

It's really that simple…

Keep it…

.

.

.

... and you just KNEW I would say that didn't you?! LOL


----------



## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

My dog eats so much I get 2 meals a day hahahahaa

Maybe 85 percent woodwork the rest can be complaints stress relief and other associated crap.I just joined so I dont really want to hear about drama I get enough of that at home.I love to see projects tools and especially the shops that are organized like crazy and clean.Custom jigs dust collection and other wood working crap I like to see that stuff to learn and help share what I know. you cant call woodworking 101 on the phone and get answers…this site is good to share wodworking stuff.


----------



## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

*Joseph Jossem*
hes saying a dog house would look good build with this


----------



## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

*renners*

that was one cool video he looked like he was enjoying every min of it


----------



## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

*DKV*
i apologize for getting side tracked from the thread.i do that quite often no disrespect intended .i like the NSTF
forums not that i agree with them or anything but its interesting to read others opinions i mean we all have one and its a free country to let it be know.just keep it clean there are small children on here too.we can arguer,rant and rave without getting to far out there.i like talking politics and religion dont bother me i have friend of all races . religions and party affiliations and we sometimes all we can agree on is to disagree.its like i told Joe Lyddon as he will let you know what he thinks. i dont agree with you but if some body want to take that right away from you ill fight right beside you to keep it and me and joe are friends. we as most all people on this earth dont agree with every body thats ok.


----------



## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Of course, there are other extremes. I think I'll stick with nonshop talk.








If you can't read any of it I can tell you it is very boring stuff…


----------



## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Play Dead!


----------



## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

*dr dirt* that was funny LOL all three time i watched it


----------



## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Joseph, that is an outstanding looking pooch. What breed?
.


----------



## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

*AL* thats a big dog of Joseph Jossem maybe a pit he looks proud. got the brother of yous here they are great dogs










hes also my best friend doctor said it was all right talking to him as long as he dont talk back **


----------



## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Everyone needs one of these for the yard!!

This guy in Eugene Oregon is really amazing- - -
Love this "150 year old Sasquatch…bald with a cane, hunched and holding his lower back" Cracked me up when I visited my sister there.
http://www.oregon3dart.com/index.htm

Make would be burglars do a double take - - amazing work - and the Owl on the shoulder was carved in from the beginning, not an add on.










OR a Bear Band - - - it is a father son team carving out by the airport.


----------



## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

Love the dog pics..


----------



## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

How about dividing the NSTF into four areas?

*Frozen Desserts of your Dreams*, for the ice cream lovers (incidentally, what you call a Dove in the U.S. is known as a Magnum here [despite the macho name they are mostly eaten by girls])

*Dogs of your Dreams*, for the dog lovers, of which there seems to be a lot

*Chocolate Cakes of your Dreams*, which judging by the above posts would see a lot of traffic

and

*Fight Club* - the home of all things religious and political.


----------



## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

Rule #1…Don't talk about fight club…


----------



## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

Keep it so those that have no control and clck on it have something to complain about


----------



## Jim Jakosh (Nov 24, 2009)

This is a good form or relaxation after being in the shop all day. I would not want it to go away. If you don't like it, don't click on it or any of the items in there. It has it's use to some of us!!


----------



## toeachhisown (Eddie) (Mar 30, 2011)

*dr dirt* those carvers are good going to try it one of these days .they just amaze me wwhat they do. the bald headed guy with the owl at first i thought it was my neighbor looks just like him but knew he didnt have a owl**


----------



## balidoug (Aug 13, 2011)

What's wrong with Nuns talking about shop? or shopping? why shouldn't Nuns be allowed to talk about whatever they want? Why silence the Nuns?

Oh.

Nevermind.


----------



## Martyroc (Feb 1, 2012)

I am for keeping it, where would I reply to this thread if it wasnt here? well the thread wouldnt be here  The good thing is you dont have to respond, the great thing is, anyone can respond, (provided the starter didnt block anyone). And what makes it better, is you get a little more insigt into a person, than just on a projecvt page,......Nice work, good job, AWESOME, Wow, etc, etc. The only bad thing is it keeps me out of the shop sometime longer than I want to be, but I can just walk away, unless its really really funny, or interesting.

I vote NO on this proposal, but thats just my opinion, dont take it too seriousley, my wife says I'm an idiot, she may be on to something, LOL


----------



## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

If you don't like it, *why do you read it?
*
Really… if it's removed, everyone will not be able to read it whether you like it or not.
Why should you control what we like to read?

Why remove it *and deprive the ones that READ it*... just to make you happy *because you choose to read something you don't like?*

*That Logic DOES NOT COMPUTE!*


----------



## jacob34 (Mar 14, 2012)

I vote no religion and politics unless it is a post on how a prayer brings a tool to your shop or increases the amount of lumber on the rack.


----------



## RibsBrisket4me (Jul 17, 2011)

To me it's obvious by the thread topic or certain thread posters which items I stay away from.


----------



## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Someone said "I vote no religion and politics unless it is a post on how a prayer brings a tool to your shop or increases the amount of lumber on the rack."

so you're for censorship as long as it doesn't interfere with what you like.


----------



## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

WOW! This is scary. I totally agree with Joe on this one.


----------



## S4S (Jan 22, 2011)

You're right , that's scary .


----------



## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

if i remember back in world war 2 there was a guy who said you will do it, you will like it all, but you will not read from certain books…..in fact they burned the books, i say let it all stay, i think folks should be respectful …to everyone's feelings, and just because someone says something you dont like, doesnt mean it world war three, just either talk it over and agree to disagree…and if things start to get to warm ,,,change the subject for awhile..but i think there is moderation in all things, its not healthy to just sit around and talk politics all day, you become cynical…and grumpy…and testy….....be rounded, talk about wood work and things like that, talk about your family…all kinds of things to talk about…lets all just agree to be friends…i can respect what and how you feel, i may not agree, and i should be able to say i dont, but in a good way…not swear at someone…or call names…come on guys were all grown up here, we have a wonderful wood working web site…lets dont ruin it with everyone taking pot shots at the foundation, cuz if you do, it will eventually crumble…....lets talk about ice cream…i really love rocky road…with extra marshmallows…..and we can talk about the wizard of oz and why that which was so scary…...and poor toto…...http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4576623241069277&id=9a76b632cde9b9342732bd708d288cbf, so lets all just talk to one another, and keep it civil, if you cant then shut down, go wood work until you can come back and be nice….


----------



## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

i have the religion problem solved…...i will baptize you all into the same church and then your wont disagree anymore, cool idea idea, we will do it this coming monday, every jocks come to my place, well go down to the creek and do it, then we will all agree….man i come up with great answers…just agree everyone and we wont have an argument…lol


----------



## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

i know have the political answer solved, well create a new party, we will call it the woodworking party, our platform will be this…......well have each member write down 3 of there most important desire for how we should run this country…each lumber jocks does that…then we take them all and ratify that all of them constitue our new party foundation, that we we will all agree again on what has been voted..and since it was my idea, ill be the president, monday is cake and icecream, tuesday is training with planes and hand tools, wednesday is power tools, thursday is jigs and friday and saturday is project day…that way were all doing the same thing, we can teach each other all of what we talked about and learned…and we wont disagree…..well ive solved all the problems, and so now i hope to sleep…grizz


----------



## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

How many online forum members does it take to change a light bulb?

1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed.

14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently.

7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs.

27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs.

53 to flame the spell checkers.

41 to correct spelling/grammar flames.

6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb"...another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive

2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is "lamp".

15 know-it-alls who claim *they* were in the industry, and that "light bulb" is perfectly correct.

156 to email the participant's ISPs complaining that they are in violation of their "acceptable use policy".

109 to post that this group is not about light bulbs and to please take this discussion to a lightbulb group

203 to demand that cross posting to hardware forum, off-topic forum, and lightbulb group about changing light bulbs be stopped.

111 to defend the posting to this group saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts *are* relevant to this group.

306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique, and what brands are faulty.

27 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light bulbs.

14 to post that the URL's were posted incorrectly and then post the corrected URL's.

3 to post about links they found from the URL's that are relevant to this group which makes light bulbs relevant to this group.

33 to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety including all headers and signatures, and add "Me too".

12 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy.

19 to quote the "Me too's" to say "Me three".

4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ.

44 to ask what is a "FAQ".

4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago?"

143 to say "do a Google search on light bulbs before posting questions about light bulbs".

1 forum lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again….


----------



## davidmicraig (Nov 21, 2009)

Very good David, except you forgot to mention that, while all this is going on, the lightbulb/light bulb/lamp remains burnt out because, in the middle of the debate, no one bothered to change it


----------



## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

I get real sick of this pantomime subject's constant re-runs or deja vu experience.
There must be a lot of people on here with Alzheimers.
Please get a life and stop regurgitating this subject on a regular basis


----------



## KnickKnack (Aug 20, 2008)

Please get a life and stop regurgitating this subject on a regular basis
As is often also said on a regular basis, you don't need to click on it.

Patron - That had me in hoots, you only forgot…
5 or so who form a group to sing about how good the old light bulb was!


----------



## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

I don't own the site. This isn't a democracy. I don't get an opinion.


----------



## Bonka (Apr 13, 2012)

If one does not like NST don't readit. It is the same as a radio dial, don't tune it in.


----------



## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

I vote that for anyone who clicks on a non shop forum topic, then complains about it receives a 3 month suspension.


----------



## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Hey Knickknack, that's all well and good, but here's the Heading:
*Off-topic content. Click to see the post.*
*18 days ago by DKV in Non-shop Talk*

Now being as I am not clairvoyant, explain how one could know the subject and chose not to click on it? 
There seems to be several who can see something I can't see …. is it a browser problem?


----------



## KnickKnack (Aug 20, 2008)

Hey Knickknack, that's all well and good, but here's the Heading: Off-topic content. Click to see the post. 18 days ago by DKV in Non-shop Talk
Ah ha - well, I can see that's a problem.
Me - my entry point is at http://lumberjocks.com/forums, which shows me…

"Get Rid Of Nonshop Talk
18 days ago by DKV in Non-shop Talk "


----------



## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

so now roger you must have the Alzheimer's..did you not read above, i made myself the president here, and i now am in charge…..so if you want to complain about anything, take it to the complaint man, PATRON…he is mr democratic and handles all of the lumberjock problems…as you see he has hired many to work in the light bulb area..and seems to be handleing the problem quite well…..oh and i have a new complaint, who started this non shop talk thread, i disagree with it….....oh darn i think i have it now…gee thanks roger…....oh and who is patron, is he a new guy…......i didnt remember writing my post here, so will someone read it again …i might remember then…but that means ill have to remember to come back to this post to read it…...oh and i voted myself in as the one in charge so take any problems to PATRON…....)))


----------



## jeepturner (Oct 3, 2010)

@Patron
You left out one person on your list. It should be something like this:
1 person to complain about how many posts there are on "Handplanes of your dreams" topic.

The above post was intended as a joke and in no way is intended to disparage the topic mentioned.


----------



## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

knickknack. I'm using Chrome and I get as I stated, so there is a problem somewhere and perhaps you can see my frustration. Grrrrrrrrrrr.
Grizz, just how much wine are you cooking that kraut in?


----------



## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

FYI Grizz, Alzheimer's is about the only desease I don't have


----------



## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

well i now know what shall be next, as we know you will want to play with a full hand..and will therefore be short of a full deck…...no wine here roger, i dont drink, but root beer does enhance kraut in some rather interesting ways…...and if you really want to get wild and crazy..ice cream on top…..now mull that over…im off to church…where i shall not ponder on any of this, except that i hope your list of problems might diminish some…hows that….....grizz


----------



## KnickKnack (Aug 20, 2008)

@ Roger/Rex ..

Try the following…

Go to "Forums" using the tab - off-topic titles not listed, right?
Go to Pulse from button in top right. I'm guessing you have the option in the top-right of the resulting page to to "show off-topic titles". Select that
Go back to "Forums" using the tab

If I'm right (often, but not always), you *can* now see the titles of the off-topic posts in the "Forums" tab page.

It is weird (nice way of putting it), that this option is on a page distant to the page you're on, but that's how it appears to work.


----------



## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*David,

That was FUNNY!*

*I think you forgot some:*

100 to determine if there really is a Light Bulb somewhere to change.

200 to determine if the Light Bulb really needs to be changed…

300 wondering if they should turn the light ON… and another 300 trying to decide whether to turn it OFF.

10 saying the Light Bulb should just be thrown away… causing too much heat.

LOL


----------



## jasnyc (Jan 27, 2011)

The title "non shop talk" is enough warning. We should be able to civilly discuss anything, respecting thoughtful, considered points of view. Non-thoughtful or ill-considered points of view can be easily glossed over.


----------

