# master of the mouth



## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

ALoha

SO i talked to this guy and he is a self proclaimed master.Knows everything from a to z he is a genious.he reached this level of skill withn a few years every thing he touches is amazing…..............

Ive been at this for a long time and I am not a master of anything.But after so long I am so sick of others claiming they are the best.Not sure if it is the same across the mainland but must be something in the water here.Whats is it that gets into peoples heads when they make a few things?For me its pride in building something out of waste.I have noticed for alot of others it is a status symbol or bragging rights?I even get instuctions from those types on how to run my business and chainsaw and mill etc..

The other day a customer told me how to do mill work so I started the chainsaw and handed it to him the look on his face was priceless!


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## bbc557ci (Sep 20, 2012)

Hell by the time I was 18-20 I knew way more than anyone else. Really I did!!

Now, I'll be 63 in a couple of weeks and I don't know squat. I just don't get it ;o)


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## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

thats a good one at 18 i was a master of everything but knew nothing…..


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## DKV (Jul 18, 2011)

Youtube, blame it on Youtube. Watch a few videos, tell yourself it's not hard and bingo you are an expert. The dovetail experts on Youtube make you think it is easy…and we all know that is not true.


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## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

dkv when homedepot started running those classes suddenly everybody is a contractor.


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## TheWoodenOyster (Feb 6, 2013)

Ha. This is classic. It reminds me of myself in the garage last night. I had this awesome table design in my head and rough cut out the parts. Yesterday I was looking at the parts thinking to myself "How in the heck am I going to do this joinery???". I get ahead of myself all of the time, thinking "That won't be that hard" or "I saw that guy do this on youtube". Well, I am slowly learning that it will be that hard. I definitely never claim to be the best, and I am far from it.

I will say this though, when you are around people who have no experience with wood or really any building material for that matter, people do think you are the best. I have run into the complete opposite siuation as you. I am surrounded by friends and family, none of whom really know anything about how to build anything three dimensional, so they think I have some sort of hidden knowledge. I try to encourage everyone I meet to try building something. They say the stuff I build is cool, but I tell them that if I can do it they can do it. I have no special powers and I have only minimal experience. I am very glad and happy to be surrounded by admirers whom I can encourage to get out there and build their own stuff. It is cool to be the one that people look to when something needs to get built or put together. I am sorry for your situation and I would definitely be frustrated if I were in your spot.

I love it that you handed him the chainsaw. That is freaking hilarious.


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## TheWoodenOyster (Feb 6, 2013)

By the way Joseph, just looked at your stuff and it is beautiful. I definitely would be admiring your work and trying to learn from you. I would definitely not be telling you how to do anything. You do incredible work with incredible wood. Keep it up!


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## bowedcurly (Aug 31, 2013)

I done forgot what I know I guess a new day a new way


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## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

Thanks oyster it was pretty funny


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## Bonka (Apr 13, 2012)

I am a registered Nurse and I do home health care. Once I was putting a Wound Vac on a patient This is a device that applies suction to significant wound a promote healing. They are not the easiest to apply and archive suction with no leaks. The patient's daughter, who was an antiques dealer, was watching. I had no more started applying the adhesive drape around the wound periphery and she started to tell me how to do it. I asked her if she had done many of these before. She replied "No." 
I got a call later in the day that I had been rude to the patient's daughter.
They're everywhere.


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## SCOTSMAN (Aug 1, 2008)

Now this post is extremely unfair some of us do know everything I freely admit it.It's sometimes hard being a genius especially when you are such a handsome devil of a genious, but then if you met my family and also studied nuclear physics then you would expect no less.Alistair

Sing Oh lordee it's hard to be humbell when you getta better lookin each daaaay each time I look in the mirror all together now.LOL


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

I've alway been envious of people who maybe don't know everything but can 'understand' anything they wish. i.e. I've always been interested but not that good at mathematics. I went as far as I could in school, trig. But I know I hit a wall at some point. This is just an example. I know some people are good with their heads and others with their hands, etc. But, I have known some people who can understand anything they want to. If they decide to learn advanced calculus, well they might need a classroom to do it but they will learn and understand it. It must be nice to be able to understand anything you want to, not just in math, but the sciences, engineering and the other myriad of topics. No walls.


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## basswood (Dec 18, 2013)

Now you have to understand that being a master is not all it is cracked up to be. It is a lot of pressure. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Some people treating you like you walk on water, others just waiting for you to slip up so they can deride you publicly!

That is partly tongue in cheek, but I received two messages this week that, to me are humbling and still odd to respond to:

"good to see you here brian! you bring alot to the table and vast knowledge. im constantly thinking what would basswood do"

"Every time I see one of your posts, be it on Facebook or on this forum, I either learn something or my interest is piqued.

Did you go to a school for woodworking, or have you just been absorbing every bit of knowledge you come across for years?

Got any recommended reading, specifically about carpentry or wood?

You're awesome!"

I responded to both messages this week with thanks and offered whatever information I thought would be helpful.

I used to resist the label of "master" even when several of the articles I submitted to Fine Homebuilding were published in the "Master Carpenter" column. I finally gave in, realizing that it is a strange kind of arrogance to assume that the labels other ascribe to you are invalid. It is actually rude to not accept such a compliment. Such rudeness is telling someone that you know better than they what a master is or what good work is.

So there is a different way to look at the topic. I realize this is a bit different than proclaiming yourself a master. Those who do should know that you are probably not worthy of the title if you claim it for yourself. On the other hand, if others claim it for you, who are you to refuse it. Not something to be taken lightly, and pretty big shoes to fill.


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## nicholasrhall (Aug 19, 2012)

For handing him the chainsaw, you are truly the master of the unspoken "if you're so effing smart, be my guest". It is an obscure technique, but nonetheless one which is appreciated by all.

I would have paid money to see the look on his face


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

I became a Master ASE Technician in 1996, wore the patches until 2004 as a requirement to get the pay that went with the accomplishment. Today, private shop, I do NOT wear anything that says I know or might know or could maybe find out anything about mechanical work. I even change my clothes before leaving work so when I stop and get gas, food, etc etc nobody can look at me and tell what I do for a living.

Reason: While I have retained this certification I know well that it is only a book test and has nothing to do with true real world ability. During my 25 years as a tech I have worked with some excellent techs that had no certs and some complete morons that could talk you to death and did not know anything. Second I am DONE with work at the end of a 10 hour day, I leave work at work and come home to my woodshop and do something not automotive. The last thing I want is to be asked a million questions in line at the store.

Or I could just be a jerk who knows? (laughing)


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

I think most people just have a need to impress for what ever reason, they may know a lot but don't know how to express themselves properly. 
Eagerness, lack of confidence, or just plain over exuberance. Most are harmless just trying to impress you with their knowledge and charm, whether they have any of either or not.

I'll take your chainsaw challenge and impress you with my ability to not cut my leg off.


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## clwade (Nov 3, 2013)

Being new to lumberjocks , I enjoy reading all the comments I've been woodworking for over 50 years and teaching woodworking for over 35 years my students call me a master but I explain to them that I'm not a master , there's a saying That if a man works with his hand he's a laborer If he works with his hands and mind He is a craftsman , and if he works with his hands his mind and his heart he is an Artist , I am 63 and by my chair I keep my year book from school and look back at my wood shop teacher who always reminded us to be patient and not rush our work and when you learn something always be willing to share it with others. And as I look at the projects posted I would consider us all to be Artist.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

I don't believe that is a title you can give yourself. Great artisans aren't considered great because of their opinion, but because of their customers and admirers. I don't like dealing with those attitudes.

The other problem with people who say that, they seem to be claiming that they have nothing left to learn. I can't imagine not being open to learning more about your profession.


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## moonie (Jun 18, 2010)

Hell Im just gald I can make it out to the shop and if folks like my work fine and as long as your learning new things youll never be a master and he anit no Norm.


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## IrreverentJack (Aug 13, 2010)

Joseph, There's a study on this behavior- *Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments*. It's called the Dunning-Kruger effect. Here's a paper.
The authors Dunning and Kruger note some historical observations; 
Confucius - "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance" 
Bertrand Russell -"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision" 
Charles Darwin -"ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

I like the bumper sticker on the back of a construction truck that read: "Hire an apprentice while he still knows everything."


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

I have been an equine veterinarian for forty years and there isn't a day that some horse owner doesn't tell me what's wrong with their horse and how to treat it! I can sympathize. I usually just quote them my tag line!


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## casual1carpenter (Aug 16, 2011)

My dad used to say, "if you have to blow your own horn, It's probably not worth blowing." There are a lot of people on LJ's that are every bit a Master as I see their work and like a true Master they do not have the bad attitude.


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## arangov3 (Jan 19, 2014)

I don't get what you guys are talking about I'm 22 just started wood working 2 months ago and I can make anything and know everything.

I think this is an appropriate second post lol


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## RockyTopScott (Nov 16, 2008)

"When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."

Mark Twain


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## Picklehead (Feb 12, 2013)

Well, there's knowledge and then there's wisdom:

- Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit.

- Wisdom is *not* putting it in a fruit salad!


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## bake (May 1, 2008)

*Well, I know everything!*…..that will do me absolutely no good.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

In School of Infantry training many moons ago we had a guy that claimed he was a genius and did not need any training, *he knew it all.* Can someone then explain why during grenade practice this genius threw the *pin* and dropped the grenade at his feet blowing them off? I always wanted to know…...... (laughing)


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

No matter your title there's always someone who knows more and someone who knows less. Your fortunate to have a mentor.


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## Bluepine38 (Dec 14, 2009)

I learned how to use and sharpen a handsaw in highschool, and then dad bought a table saw, I have been 
playing catchup since then. It is great to be able to learn, and as I get older, I sometimes find that I get to
learn how to do it correctly. Just my opinion.


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## hoosier0311 (Nov 8, 2012)

when I was a kid the old man always told me what to do, as a young adult the Co Gunny told me what to do, now a "slightly" older adult I have a wife that tells me what to do,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,heck I've never had to know anything?

My pet peeve with people relative to working is to hear the old " well if I had a shop and tools like Norm Abrams, I could build all that stuff too"

Most of the time I'm in awe of the things people on this site build, I cant imagine talking to Monte Pittman about how how he "should" be doing live edge pieces!


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## Pono (Mar 10, 2012)

I think once you know everything in your head you stop learning.I see stuff on this site I cant even comprehend how to get to the final product makes my brain hurt and my skills feel weak. Most of the self proclaimed masters are very quick to point out everybodies flaws but once critasized act like a new born baby!


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## Picklehead (Feb 12, 2013)

When I first started looking on this site, I would see people's work and say to myself "man, he must have some *incredible* machinery/tools, then I would look at his/her shop and see that my "middle of the road" stuff was as good as or "better". That was a mental kick in the ass to me. It aint the tools. It's the knowledge, skill, time put in, artistic and technical aptitude, whatever you want to call it.


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

At age 18, I began losing smarts. The process continued until now, and at 72 I'm an experienced idiot.


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## LesCasteel (Jan 9, 2010)

No man is great if he thinks he is - Will Rogers


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I've always considered myself to be a jack of all trades. I am not a master of anything nor will I ever be.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## Finisherman (May 3, 2013)

I always start to get nervous whenever I begin to feel that I've mastered something. I just know that the "woodworking gods" are about to knock me on my butt and teach me another lesson in humility. In all seriousness, we should always be willing to learn from each other, recognizing that no one, no matter how accomplished, knows everything that there is to know about his craft.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

I grew up working ranches in North Central Oregon back in the 70's. Met an old boy one summer while I was working for the soil conservation service laying diversion ditches. He, up and askes one day if I knew who the smartest man on the ranch was? Well, me being me, I says the boss. "Well hell no", says old Paul, "it's the hired man, he's always bitchin bout how the boss don't know what he's doin." "Only thing is, it ain't his ranch!"

I kept that and many others in the back of my mind where ever I went to work! Pretty much served me well over the years!


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## LyallAndSons (Apr 16, 2011)

The older I get, The smarter my parents were…....


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## watermark (Jan 29, 2013)

I had a similar experience last summer when I was milling up some Norfolk or Cook island pine (still cant tell the difference) and one of those types watched me make one cut and then came to tell me I was wasting my time and should be using a ripping chain. 
I asked him sincerely to check the saw out for me because I am new at this game and thought I was using a ripping chain. He looked at the chain and said it was a ripping chain but the the depth gauges needed to be filled down. At that point I knew he was full of it so I asked if I should get them from somewhere other then Baileys because I just got it out of THAT box (box was sitting with my tools and gas). He sputtered a little and went on to tell me about how his experience was with real mills because that's where the money is at.

Same state different island… not sure if we have more here than the mainland because most of them I meet are usually fresh of the plane and it's all about what they did where they were from. Nothing against new comers I immigrated here 8 years ago from Australia via California & Brazil.

I am stoked to have found this site with so many knowledgeable and talented wood workers to be inspired by.


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

I taught science for 30 years then when the state got all the kids a laptop I jumped in to become the computer teacher in the building. I wasn't a computer master but I had dabbled with them for years with great passion so I guess I knew a lot about them compared to most of the others. I had the ability to control the other computers from my work station. Of course teachers would call me constantly about something not working. One day a teacher's computer just started acting like it was dying. She sent a note to me via a student. I went on the network and tweaked her computer from my office to fix the problem. When I got to her class, I stood behind her machine and I passed my hands over her computer, closed my eyes, and paused. I said, "Some of your code is corrupt. I'm reworking it now". After a minute she moved the mouse and her computer was miraculously working again. I did that a lot in the building. I never let them know. I didn't earn the word 'master' but I faked it pretty good. It was lots of fun.

When my girls were younger (teens) they didn't think too much of my advice. Now one of them has a PhD in biomedical nanotechnology and calls me a lot about what to do regarding some issue or another. It seems that as she got smarter, so did I!

I do find that as I get older and older, I tend to concentrate on trying to understand specific types of things. As the world changes and gets more and more complex It's not just hard to keep up, it's a choice to not want to get involved with the new complexities.


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## EastLake (Mar 11, 2014)

Humility isn't a lesson that comes easy, or commonly to most people. Competition is a natural thing for most people, and shooting off at the mouth unfortunately follows. There is nothing I hate more than trusting an unbeknownst charlatan only to find out that they were instructing on their own guesswork than tried and true techniques. That's when I hit YouTube or the blog and find someone who knows what they are talking about before things get really messed up.

Lincoln said, "It is better to keep quiet and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove any doubt." Wiser people know when to say nothing and watch blundering fools make a mess of themselves.


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## Oldsaxon (Jul 17, 2013)

Is no one else seeing the irony in this?


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

Ha, I see your point saxon…


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## h2opredator (Mar 13, 2014)

Hell I have a supervisor in my shop that did the same thing to me yesterday. He doesn't like my management style so he tells me he is a Journeyman carpenter and can build anything. Two minutes later I get a call right in front of him from my sales guy telling me the box my "Journeyman" just built using the dimensions provided was too small. 
We all make mistakes so I never even said a word to him after he heard the conversation. 
Now if my kids are that smart why can't they get a high paying job and support me for a change?


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