# Edge jointing large red oak boards



## mnkraft (Oct 2, 2013)

As you can see from the bench I'm working on; I need a new one:










I do not own any power tools (except a circular saw) and I was hoping to keep it that way (too noisy for sleeping kids, plus I enjoy the hand work much more). I have a lot of high quality tools-Lie Nielsen, Veritas, etc. -because I thought that's what I needed. I'm only pointing that out because I was naive enough to think that. I have come to realize that the bench is just as important as the tools when doing hand work. In fact, it's obvious to me now that my wavy plywood top is the reason I fight to flatten 4/4 stock. But, I digress. That's not what I'm posting about…

I was hoping to get opinions and/or pointers, tips, as I am unsure how to proceed. I have purchased a lot of old red oak beams, about 2-3/4" thick. I ripped it all down to 4-1/2" wide and around 84" long. I planned on setting the boards on edge and having a 4" thick top by 20" to 24" wide. This would mean somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 of the ~2-1/2" thick boards edge jointed together. I started planing these by hand last night and it would appear my naivety has struck again.

I thought this seemed "doable" ... But, it's obviously going to take me a long, long time to finish this. I'm starting to think I should buy a planer and jointer, even if just to finish this one task. But, I'm not completely sure a benchtop 6" jointer and 13" planer could handle these long boards very well, either, and I'd hate to just go out and waste $500 on a pair of them. Maybe I should just buy a bench… But, I've already bought the red oak and wonder if I would be happy with a $500 bench anyways. Rent shop time and use their planer/jointers to finish the top? OK, but I have a car and hauling long boards is difficult.

What would you do? Hike up your skirt and finish the bench by hand? Buy a planer and jointer? Screw it & go buy a bench?


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## 12strings (Nov 15, 2011)

Ask all your friends who has a jointer and planet you can use…after living in this area foe about 4 yrs I discovered that I have 3 friends who do…a doctor, teacher, and a small business owner…you might be surprised…if I was in your shoes u would definitely want to use the wood I had…


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

or just buy the planer for now. Jointing with hand planes is pretty quick and easy. Sizing on the other hand can be time consuming. I do most of my jointing with hand planes even though I have a Delta jointer. I'll never give up my planer.

The other point if you have a lot to do, stacking them sideways and 3 or 4 together, you can joint them with the planer.

A bench top with a couple of stands will handle anything you'll ever want to plane. (given your current situation that is)


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## chrisstef (Mar 3, 2010)

That's a lot of jointing. You can do it by hand but itll take time if those reclaimed boards are a bit wavy. What I would do is find a local wood supplier or another LJ as suggested by 12 and farm it out. I don't feel that there is any shame in that. It can be done properly and most import, safely without waking up the whole house and spending $500 - $1000. Im in the same boat having a young child in the house. I try not to make a ton of noise. There's hell to pay if they wake up 

I say drop a post and see if there are any guys or gals local to you that would be willing to help out. Id bet dollars to donuts that there is.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

it may help to add your general location to your profile.

That is if you want a fellow LJ to help out.


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## jdh122 (Sep 8, 2010)

I'd definitely advise you to make your own bench rather than buy it, especially since you've acquired wood that you may not be likely to use in other projects (would you want to re-saw that down to 1 inch thick by hand to use it for furniture?). 
Don W is right that generally jointing is quite easy with a plane, but in this case you're jointiing stock that is 4 inches thick - you really need both machines. A benchtop planer will easily work its way through that wood (small bites, of course). On the other hand I'd steer clear of benchtop jointers, if I'm picturing the right thing. I had one for a few years and it was terrible. On the other hand, the most basic 6 inch jointer on a stand will easily handle that wood.
But if you're not planning on using the j+p after the bench build, you can definitely find someone locally who could do it for you for cheap/free/beer.


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## mnkraft (Oct 2, 2013)

I was thinking of trying to find someone who would do it for a fee-but I guess I wasn't too sure about how to go about finding someone to do that, either. If I could find someone to do that, I would definitely pay reasonably for the time.

One way or the other, I have made up my mind that I am not going to buy a planer/jointer, since I won't need or use them after this anyways. When the endless planing gets to me, I'll keep in mind all the practice I am getting and how much easier shorter boards will be after the bench is built. 

Thanks for all the input. I may start a "bench biuld" topic for the fun of it and to look back at when (hopefully) I finish!


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## bullhead1 (Mar 29, 2012)

Look for a local small cabinet shop. Most have a heavy duty planer and jointer and love that cash on the side job. They might also end up being a source for wood.


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## djwong (Aug 2, 2009)

A jointer and planer (along with a bandsaw) are great conveniences, even if you are primarily a hand tool person. To limit your expenditures, I would get the planer first. Hand joint your rough boards so they have a single flat stable surface. This does not mean the surface has to be smooth and perfect, just that there is no twist and that the board will feed through your planer flat. After planing one surface smooth, flip the board and plane your hand jointed surface smooth. Given you are working long boards, there still may be some hand work you have to do to clean up your boards, but it will be much less work at that point.

Also, it will probably be better to glue up the boards you are able to prepare each day. Less chance of warping overnight.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

Buying a bench to me is never an option. I am not a hand tool person. Mainly because of the time needed to do it right. The choice is yours if you want and can expand your shop with some power tools.


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## JohnChung (Sep 20, 2012)

I am not sure where is your slow down….. Yes hand tools can be slow when use incorrectly. I have spent 2 hours trying to straighten planks that was rough cut.

Thickness - scrub plane or skew the jack blade. Can remove 1/8 material rather quickly for planks.
Jointing - A jointer plane. It does not take long seriously. 
Smoothing - Well… For the bench top we can leave that for the last stage.

Leveling is not the same as jointing….. If there is twist, cup , bends or thickness issues then scrub or blade skewing is the way to go.

Sometimes it is good to measure the time determine which step is slow.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

A bench top planer would be a good investment, and if you didn't want to buy a jointer right now, you could make a jig (a long one) that would allow you to joint the edge of the boards with your new planer. A bench top jointer wouldn't be a good idea for boards of this length or weight, due to the short bed and light weight construction of most bench top jointers. Many have mentioned finding someone to help you out, and that sounds like a good option, IF you can find someone with the equipment, time, and a way to get around your limited hauling ability.


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## richardwootton (Jan 17, 2013)

If there is not a large variation in size and a limited amount of twist, cupping or bowing, then I'd face joint both faces that are to be laminated, making sure that the boards meet up true when stood on edge like they will be once glued up into your bench top. Once that is done you can glue your bench top up then proceed to joint/flatten what will be the underside of your bench top all at the same time. I don't know if you have read Paul Sellers series on building a workbench, but I would definitely recommend it. This is the process I have followed in my workbench build and I just finished flattening the underside of my bench top with relative ease using hand planes.


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

I think of jointers in terms of length. An 18" long plane can only straighten a board so much. An 8" jointer is often 76" long. With that spec alone, you can see there really is no comparison.

I used to pay my local cabinet shop to make bandsaw cuts before I owned that tool. Do that twice, and it will cost you the same as buying the tools.


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## mnkraft (Oct 2, 2013)

JohnChung: My slow down is probably "all of the above" and also that I am trying to get things PERFECT. For some reason, I'm trying to get the boards square and smooth on all four sides. I don't think I really need to worry about at least two of the faces, yet (which will be the top/bottom), and the faces being glued up only need to meet up true as richardwootton pointed out.

It's a coincidence that you mention Paul Sellers-I found him for the first time last night. I watched a few of his workbench videos on youtube. Even he ran those pine (or fir?) boards through a planer, first, but then surfaced them with his no. 4 to get rid of the planer tracks.

I think if I were going to buy anything, this thread would have convinced me to buy a 13" planer rather than a jointer. I'm going to attempt it by hand, first, but may get a planer for temporary use.

Funny, I had a DeWalt DW-733 (or 734, can't remember which) for about a week a few years ago. That thing was so noisy I felt like the neighbors were going to complain when I ran it after 9pm. The boss didn't say anything, but she definitely had raised eyebrows at the noise level. Luckily I made money on that buying from a pawn shop, selling on CL. I actually did build a jointing jig to run through it, with shims and what not, but it was sort of a pain to setup and get working right.


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## Jeff28078 (Aug 27, 2009)

If you're going to laminate those on the 4" side then a planar is definitely the machine to buy. You'll find it hard to get a consistent thickness along the entire length with a jointer.
On another note are you sure you need a solid red oak bench that thick? I know it would be slightly more stable than a 2 1/2" thick one but it'll be extremely heavy. If you laminated them on the short side it woud mean fewer boards to plane and join. Just a thought.


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## mnkraft (Oct 2, 2013)

They started as 2-1/2" thick boards that were pretty wide… and then I cut them. I have made a cherry table the same way (but only 1" thick). For my dining room table, I have a bunch of 6 foot strips of cherry all on their sides all laminated together. The table is incredibly strong. I put some stainless steel legs on it and really like that modern look.

When I had the 2-1/2" thick oak on it's face I could stand on it with saw horses on each side of the 6' section, and if I sort of jumped up and down, it did flex a little. Not much, really, but it did make me think about my dining room table and how applying pressure on the side/edge grain does not flex at all. Especially when I do the same thing with 4" thick oak, I won't have to worry about it flexing. I think the extra heft and effort to get it done at 4" thick will be worth it. The weight will be nice to keep the bench from moving when doing any heavy planing. It will definitely be a tank…

The other reason is that it's reclaimed lumber-I started at 2-1/2", but after taking all of the cupping/wind out, I might only end up with 2" thick. What you pointed out though was something that was on my mind for a while before I ended up ripping the separate pieces, though.


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## sixstring (Apr 4, 2012)

I say get at least a 6" jointer with a long bed and not a benchtop. The benchtop wont handle that long of a piece without building a seperate infeed/outfeed. And also get a lunchbox style planer… Dewalt/Makita/Ridgid many to choose from and I'm confident they will all handle that oak just fine. The trick there is that it will need a decent infeed/outfeed as well.

Buy it used and finish your project. Then sell it again if you really dont want them. You should end up selling it for about the same price you bought it. There's the beauty of used machinery.

Or, like others suggested, make friends with a local cabinet shop or even the woodshop instructor at the local school.


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## Bogeyguy (Sep 26, 2012)

I'm sure if you looked you could find a local mill/cabinet shop that has equipment that could mill your lumber S4S in a short time for a few bucks. So what if it hangs out you cars windows. Surely you have a friend with a truck??? Get it done and get busy on that bench.


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

I'd either network to find a local cabinet shop that can do it reasonably, or stop worrying about getting it perfect and just get two parallel sides done right and glue it up. The old timers didn't worry about the non show faces of their work, they didn't have time so you'll see the undersides of a lot of old stuff being left pretty rough.. And your glue up isn't going to be perfectly straight, so even if you do spend all the time to get your boards s4s by hand, the top won't be flat anyway. Just get the faces done that need to be glued and then plane down the top when you're done.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Perhaps your approach to jointing is what is wrong. With hand tools you do not joint the entire beam at first, you only do the high spots, and then you joint the entire length to finish the beam. It should not take you a long time, but it will take a lot of elbow grease… 

Good luck on the bench…..I hope is not another Roubo…


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## mnkraft (Oct 2, 2013)

Yeah, it clicked the other night that I don't have to S4S it right aeay. Going much better and I am learning from the whole thing, so I guess that's worth something. 

Not a roubo… more of a dominy style bench; just wish I could afford the wooden vise screw…


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## JohnChung (Sep 20, 2012)

mnkraft - 4" sides? No wonder it is taking so long  I have not tried red oak yet but I would use a tooth blade
on the jointer plane for faster removal or skewing the blade across the grain…..

I guess a planer would be a good choice for this project. A bandsaw or jointer in my opinion won't help you
much this round…... But a bandsaw overall is a more useful tool.

Here is an article from Derek on working on wide boards. I do use a similar technique that he does: 
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Preparing%20a%20board%20without%20a%20thicknesser.html

Just maybe it can help you move faster on this project


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## mnkraft (Oct 2, 2013)

I ordered a toothed blade from LV for my BU jointer a few days ago. I know it'll help @ the end to flatten the whole thing up, anyways, so I figured I'd get it now.

I have almost purchased a band saw more than a few times, but never fully pulled the trigger.

Thanks for the link for preparing wide boards-I really like that 30" wood jointer. If you see from my original post, I prefer my long 30" wood jointer to bring it to its final "flatness," although not as nice as his…


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## JohnChung (Sep 20, 2012)

Derek has some very cool skills…... Take a long time to get there  Keep us posted on your progress.


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