# Converting Harbor Freight Dust Collector Motor to 220V?



## jkl103144 (Mar 19, 2015)

I'm curious, has anyone managed to convert the 'so called' 2hp Harbor Freight dust collection motor from 110v to 220v? I'm a big believer in doing this whenever possible, since it divides the amperage in half, and greatly prolongs the life of the motor. I did this 34 years ago, when I purchased my Craftsman tablesaw and air compressor, and I haven't had 'Trouble One' ever since.

I'm not all that electrician savvy, and I'm not even sure if this is possible. But if possible I'm ready to give it a go. I just purchased the system early this week, and am customizing it by using two Thien seperators for both the first and second stage, and then plan to vent the extra fine particulates outside.

Thanks for the consideration.

John


----------



## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

The motor label should say if it's possible, it will be labeled duel voltage as in 120v/240V. That said, I can't recall anyone mentioning that it is. (Obviously, I don't have one.)


----------



## DIYaholic (Jan 28, 2011)

The one I have, as it comes from the factory is not able to be converted, to 220V.

I do wonder if a "hack" is possible….
But I don't know enough about motors, to even contemplate it.


----------



## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

If it doesn't have 120/240 listed on the motors data plate, you are SOL. And according to the manual for the current 2hp system, it's a 120v only setup.

Cheers,
Brad


----------



## jkl103144 (Mar 19, 2015)

> The one I have, as it comes from the factory is not able to be converted, to 220V.
> 
> I do wonder if a "hack" is possible….
> But I don t know enough about motors, to even contemplate it.
> ...


I would imagine there would be a 'hack' somewhere. I've given it a cursory look, but haven't found it yet. If it really was possible, it would be nice to know about. I'm sold on the 220volt system. My two most important electric tools, the table saw and air compressor, are running on it, and I have not had a single problem in over 34 years. As the Timex commercial went, "They take a licking, but keep on ticking."

I'm just hoping that somebody has access to this.


----------



## jkl103144 (Mar 19, 2015)

> If it doesn t have 120/240 listed on the motors data plate, you are SOL. And according to the manual for the current 2hp system, it s a 120v only setup.
> 
> Cheers,
> Brad
> ...


----------



## syenefarmer (Dec 19, 2009)

> ....... I too saw all the umpteen cautions written in the owner s manual. However, there are many people who view that as an open invitation to experiment.
> 
> - John L


Those are also the people who have or should have 911 on their speed dial.


----------



## rick1955 (Jun 26, 2014)

Lots of motor myths out there. Increases life of motor, runs cooler, more power! Nonsense! I've had 3 phase 440 volt motors converted to 220 volt so I could run them on my phase converter. The "motor shop" taps into the windings. 
That's the secret. Talking on Lumberjocks all day isn't going to reveal any secrets except the one I told you. Call your motor shop and learn all the real secrets about your motor. You will probably find it cheaper to buy a new motor which may cost more than the dust collector. 
BTW. Have them explain the motor myths to you. I assume you got your info on the web and not from an electrical engineer!

X


----------



## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> > ....... I too saw all the umpteen cautions written in the owner s manual. However, there are many people who view that as an open invitation to experiment.
> 
> 
> Those are also the people who have or should have 911 on their speed dial.


LOL - indeed! A motor designed to run on dual voltage (120/240) has separate windings which are run in series for 120v and parallel for 240v. Trying to get a single voltage motor to run on a higher voltage that it wasn't designed for usually ends with letting the magic smoke out of the motor. There are not a lot of advantages to running on 240v instead of 120v, and certainly not enough to, IMHO, to risk trashing the motor (or worse) trying to do so.

Cheers,
Brad


----------



## jkl103144 (Mar 19, 2015)

> Lots of motor myths out there. Increases life of motor, runs cooler, more power! Nonsense! I ve had 3 phase 440 volt motors converted to 220 volt so I could run them on my phase converter. The "motor shop" taps into the windings.
> That s the secret. Talking on Lumberjocks all day isn t going to reveal any secrets except the one I told you. Call your motor shop and learn all the real secrets about your motor. You will probably find it cheaper to buy a new motor which may cost more than the dust collector.
> BTW. Have them explain the motor myths to you. I assume you got your info on the web and not from an electrical engineer!
> 
> ...


Rick, please note that I asked if this had been done, out of curiosity. I think you are reading a bit more in it than I intended.


----------



## rick1955 (Jun 26, 2014)

And I told you the motor shops are the only ones who can do this. Have you ever talked to a motor shop and asked how they could change the voltage of the motor and if it would do what you think it would? Be nice if someone would start giving the facts. I have a motor shop I work with and I can't help but laughing every time I read the junk on the web about motors and electricity. It's actually pretty pathetic in the long run.


----------



## jkl103144 (Mar 19, 2015)

> And I told you the motor shops are the only ones who can do this. Have you ever talked to a motor shop and asked how they could change the voltage of the motor and if it would do what you think it would? Be nice if someone would start giving the facts. I have a motor shop I work with and I can t help but laughing every time I read the junk on the web about motors and electricity. It s actually pretty pathetic in the long run.
> 
> - rick1955


Rick, I'm terribly sorry I am not so well versed in the fine art of electric motors and its a shame that I didn't pursue an EE degree at the Citadel. But I do know a good bit about geology, Paleotology, and am a graduate Physical Anthropologist. I tend to cram my brain with all sorts of things you may not understand, or even care. But to me, they are important. That is why there are people, such as yourself, to do other things for others, and also make a living at it. Should we quiz you on your knowledge base with the sciences?

I somehow thought we were all here to help, rather than ridicule. To the best of my knowledge I asked a straight forward question: was it possible, and had it been done. Basically, that's it. Because I am a curious hominid, that's why.


----------



## DIYaholic (Jan 28, 2011)

Jon L,
Well said!!!


----------



## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

What they said. If it's not marked its not possible because it doesn't have a second set of windings to put in parallel or series for the different voltages.


----------



## rick1955 (Jun 26, 2014)

I'm not trying to ridicule you at all. My job is problem solving. If I have a geology question I call a geologist. You seemed to think someone here may have figured how to run a 110 volt motor on 220. My point was to ask the source that could give the correct answer with the least amount of questions. I never even implied you should have an electrical degree. If you cut your finger on a table saw you would go to a doctor not a woodworking forum.

I am trying to help. Trying to teach problem solving with the least amount of steps. You don't have to have a degree in every field but having
Experts you can go to can go along way. You asked a question and I just wanted to give you the shortest way to the answer.


----------



## DGunn (Feb 14, 2008)

Actually this is a good place to ask this question. There are guys here from all walks of life. I work selling motors and motor repair.

The answers given are correct, unless the motor is labeled for 120/240 (dual voltage) you cannot change it to 240V. There will be no "hack" to make it 240V if it was not designed that way.

We actually get similar questions a lot. But we never laugh at people for asking. That is how you learn, by asking.


----------



## jkl103144 (Mar 19, 2015)

> I m not trying to ridicule you at all. My job is problem solving. If I have a geology question I call a geologist. You seemed to think someone here may have figured how to run a 110 volt motor on 220. My point was to ask the source that could give the correct answer with the least amount of questions. I never even implied you should have an electrical degree. If you cut your finger on a table saw you would go to a doctor not a woodworking forum.
> 
> I am trying to help. Trying to teach problem solving with the least amount of steps. You don t have to have a degree in every field but having
> Experts you can go to can go along way. You asked a question and I just wanted to give you the shortest way to the answer.
> ...


There is one thing you definitely need to acquire. And that is "Tactfulness". Do you treat your customers this way? Or is this due to the fact that you are anonymous, and don't have to worry about the object of your scorn to come looking for you, in order to straighten this out?

Try being nice for Heaven's Sake. It works wonders.


----------



## jkl103144 (Mar 19, 2015)

> We actually get similar questions a lot. But we never laugh at people for asking. That is how you learn, by asking.
> 
> - dlgWoodWork


Amen Bro.


----------



## derrickparks57 (Apr 11, 2013)

If we all went down town to ask the experts for our questions then this forum wouldn't exist.


----------



## smitdog (Aug 20, 2012)

> Do you treat your customers this way? Or is this due to the fact that you are anonymous, and don t have to worry about the object of your scorn to come looking for you, in order to straighten this out?
> 
> - John L


I think you hit the proverbial "Nail on the Head".


----------



## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Amen


----------



## REO (Sep 20, 2012)

Honestly laughing out loud! Almost fell of my chair when I read some of the responses! Some of those who have responded as though they are the epitome of intelligence have the least potential for knowledge. They spend their time bashing what others have said and only bring their mouth to the table. I am not a motor shop. I do know several shops and have run into the voltage and direction "thing" hundreds of times in my career. It is entirely possible! consider why the manufacturer would make one that would only run on one voltage. the windings would be unique to that motor and therefore require special manufacturing and assembly procedures. For reasons of mass production as any one with an ounce of sense would conclude it is better or them to consider making parts that are consistent in form and function. This is better for QA and assembly. For either voltage individual windings of the motor are the same. To keep it simple ALL the windings are used. the windings are designed for 120 volts. When wired in parallel they see 120 volts on 120 volt feed. When fed with 240 the windings are in series and the windings still only see 120 each. If the windings weren't there to wire in series or parallel how would the motor use the electricity. LOL! Some machine tools require a predetermined rotation and voltage, a requirement of the manufacturer, so all the connections are made inside the motor housing and only the wires for the incoming power are available for the user to install the plug or replace the capacitor, but the connections are still there, inside the motor. On other motors several more connections are required because a loose wire has to be attached to the winding end an brought out to where a user can configure them for voltage, Still more connections of this type are required so that the rotation can be changed. It could take a special housing , possibly a terminal board and other additional parts to provide these extras. it all costs money! In short it is entirely possible! It may require disassembly of the motor, the use of a volt/ohm meter to find the individual windings and their ends. It will take some reading and searches on the net, but it will be worth it in the end, Either the comic relief you get when you can sit back and read some comments that people make about things they really know nothing about. The satisfaction you get from the things you have learned, and the opportunity to show others!

The information you are looking to find is a valuable tool for anyone that likes machinery. I learned to change the rotation and voltage on user friendly motors when I was about 13, built a rotary phase converter for my dad at the same time and dug through my first " its made that way, you cant change it take it to the motor shop" when I was 16.

Mrunix 
forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=85412


----------



## REO (Sep 20, 2012)

I apologize for the attitude in my previous post. It was unnecessary and uncalled for. I had had a day of discussions with people about everything from vaccinations to gun control.


----------



## Plain (Jun 27, 2016)

> I m curious, has anyone managed to convert the so called 2hp Harbor Freight dust collection motor from 110v to 220v? I m a big believer in doing this whenever possible, since it divides the amperage in half, and greatly prolongs the life of the motor.
> - John L


Why would it prolong the life of the motor moreover greatly ? From the motor internal perspective 220V is absolutely the same as 110V. 
You might have more voltage drop with 110V when connected via a long and thin extension cord, but just don't do that and you'll be OK, at least not worse than with 220V.


----------



## jkl103144 (Mar 19, 2015)

> I m curious, has anyone managed to convert the so called 2hp Harbor Freight dust collection motor from 110v to 220v? I m a big believer in doing this whenever possible, since it divides the amperage in half, and greatly prolongs the life of the motor.
> - John L
> 
> Why would it prolong the life of the motor moreover greatly ? From the motor internal perspective 220V is absolutely the same as 110V.
> ...


The reason why I originally asked the question is because I have converted my Crastsman table saw and air compressor from 115v to 230v. I'm not an electrician, but had been instructed that amperage is the key here, and not voltage. The less the voltage(highway size) the more the amperage needed(traffic-current) in order to accomplish the same thing. And the more amperage, the harder it has to work, thus cutting its life expectancy. I have had my table saw and air comprssor since 1981, use them on a regular basis in my business, and have never had a problem with either one. The motors seem to run like the day they were new.

Any time you cut down on your amperage requirement, the less strain on the circuit. I realize that this is not a scientific answer, and I probably should look it up and get the particulars down pat.

Also, my understanding is that this motor is not set up for dual voltages, so I am stuck with the 115v approach. 
Another thing.


----------



## Plain (Jun 27, 2016)

The current that goes through the motor's winding is always the same, otherwise the rotor would not turn or the winding would get fried in a matter of seconds. When re configuring a motor for a different voltage you connect winding parts differently in a way to make sure that the voltage on a single part and thus current going through this part is the same. For example a 3 phase motor runs on 220V circuits when the motor winding is connected as a triangle, and runs the same on 380V when the winding is connected as a star (D and Y connection). There are some advantages with Y connection as it for example gives you the neutral point, which is absent at D connection but these are specific details that can be omitted for home use. 
With 1 phase motors there are usually two coils in the winding. If all coil ends are connected to the terminal you can connect them in parallel ( lower voltage) or series (higher voltage). and they would work the same. Things could be complicated by the presence of the starting capacitor, which may or may not support both configurations. The starting characteristics of a single phase motor with a capacitor also may change, as the capacitor is not optimal for both configurations.


----------



## jkl103144 (Mar 19, 2015)

This guy at the link below, is saying pretty much what I have been saying. Only difference is that instead of using a highway and traffic situation, he is using the milkshake and straw analogy. Trying to draw an amount of energy through a small straw is less efficient than sucking through two straws. Hence there are two lines running through the motor to accommodate the traffic.

https://www.inyopools.com/blog/does-using-230-voltage-save-money/

In other words, the 230volt system is more efficient and less stress on the motor. And that's why I have had Zero problems with either motor in my table saw and air compressor. It would be nice if I could somehow come up with a motor replacement that allowed me to use the custom 230volt line is right next to my table saw and vac system.


----------



## REO (Sep 20, 2012)

John I have to jump in and restate what I have before. you are not choosing whether or not to convey voltage across town or even across the shop or more efficiently inside the motor. you have the same wire doing the SAME work in two different configurations. there is a balance between volts, amps and watts. A change in one directly affects another. Regardless of whether a motor is wired for 110 or 220 the wingdings see the same amount of work.

1 hp is equal to 746 watts. In general not taking into account efficiency, Service factor, and other possible losses.
since we are talking about the same motor in two configurations the losses would be identical.

for 110v 746watts divided by 110 volts equals 6.78 amps. Which is supplied by one leg.
for 220v 746watts divided by 220 volts equals 3.39 amps but you have to multiply by 2 because the power is supplied by two legs out of phase with each other to provide 220 phase to phase hence still the 6,78 amp system total. the supply wiring sees half the amperage, but because the windings have been reconfigured in series and are being fed from both ends they see the same work as they did when wired in paralell for 110.

Here is a link to explain windings and their configurations in detail. 
http://manuals.chudov.com/ElectricMotors.pdf
if you want to change the voltage used to run the motor it is entirely possible but may require disassembly and finding the factory connections made that are tied to the windings. Challenging but certainly not impossible. can you provide pictures of the coverplate and then inside?


----------



## jkl103144 (Mar 19, 2015)

REO, I think we are really stating pretty much the same thing, only I am speaking in Eglish(British) and you are speaking English(American) with different inflections. I'm coming from the amperage perspective and you are looking at it from the voltage perspective.

All I'm saying that if you have the same size highway(wire) in either example, the amperage(traffic) will perform more efficiently if it has to travel along two highways rather than just one. The wattage is not required to break into a sweat with more highway. That's all I'm saying.

I'm not an electrician, just a lowly physical anthropologist, but I do remember being taught along this line in my science classes in high school, way back in the late 50s, early 60s. I can't give you the equations and all the sterile academic speak. I just know that I once had it explained to me why two phases works better than one with electric motors, I went with it and never had a complaint. And it has always worked like a charm for me. Thirty-five years of almost constant use on these two machines and never a problem really does speak for itself.

Now, I can talk Quatenary Science, and early hominids, all day long and never miss a beat…...............


----------



## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

Looking at mine I picked up a month ago, there are no extra terminal post in the box that also contains the switch for dual voltage hook up. However, the unit works fine as is on 110.


----------



## REO (Sep 20, 2012)

regardless yours was not a question really as to whether one is better than the other but if it was possible. Was the link at all helpfull? I have converted many motors and would be willing to help you thorough it if I can.


----------



## MrUnix (May 18, 2012)

> Thirty-five years of almost constant use on these two machines and never a problem really does speak for itself.
> - John L


And has little to do with the voltage they were being run at.

Cheers,
Brad


----------



## jonah (May 15, 2009)

> Thirty-five years of almost constant use on these two machines and never a problem really does speak for itself.
> - John L
> 
> And has little to do with the voltage they were being run at.


It has nothing to do with the voltage they are run at. Your attitude in this is pretty ridiculous. You ask a question. People give you an answer, based in scientific fact, that you don't like, so you throw a bit of a hissy fit about it, and share your anecdotal experience as if that has any bearing on this situation. It doesn't.

Running a dual voltage motor at the higher voltage will do little to nothing to prolong its life. Period. The fact that you own two older motors that still work has exactly nothing to do with anything.


----------



## CyberDyneSystems (May 29, 2012)

> I apologize for the attitude in my previous post. It was unnecessary and uncalled for. I had had a day of discussions with people about everything from vaccinations to gun control.
> 
> - REO


I thought it was a very good read, not at all filled with attitude, and indeed called for.


----------



## SkiBird (Feb 17, 2017)

Wow, quite a few 'spirited' comments here. I'm new here and am just getting back into woodworking after a couple decade hiatus. I'm an electrical engineer and can't help but comment with my $0.02 on this topic. I've seen a few posts that aren't entirely true but first, I'll share a funny story that is dead center to this thread.

I bought a Rikon 150 DC and after my first few uses, knew that a filter upgrade was needed. I was also in the middle of adding quite a few 110v outlets in addition to 220v in my garage. The sales guy told me my DC was 110/220 and when I looked at the placard, no dice. Ergo, I didn't run 220v to where it was going to be positioned. Fast forward to near completion of the shop and I mention to a coworker my disdain for the DC's lack 220v operation. Not only is this guy a stellar woodworker, he happens to be BLIND! I told him I wished I paid attention to my DC because I want to run all tools at 220v that I can. He said my DC will in fact run at 220v. My reply, "no offense Terry, but you're blind!" He laughs and assures me. So, I ignore the placard and remove the plate on the motor and voila! 220v capable.

Now, for some practical EE… Someone said above that lowering the current will help prolong the life of a motor. ABSOLUTELY true! But the extent of how much is low, as in I'd guess maybe 3-5% for home use. For a shop or ANY motor that is used extensively, the prolonged life is much higher. Current going through any wire creates heat due to the intrinsic resistance. Lowering the current and raising the voltage reduces this wasted heat. So, correctly stated above, E(voltage) * I(current) = watts and 746 watts = 1HP. So, if you have a 1HP motor running on 110v, the motor will have 6.78 amps passing through it. That same motor running on 220v will have 3.39 amps running through it. Both will accomplish the same amount of work; 1HP but at 220v, you'll have more potential energy arriving at the motor but again, negligibly more. Horsepower and wattage are both heat, plain and simple. That heat is the work you want to accomplish and in a DC's case, creating a vacuum.

If there was no advantage of running at a higher voltage, then why do we transmit voltage over long distances at a VERY high voltage? If you've been paying attention, it's because current wastes energy in wire. Another advantage is you can have higher gauge (smaller) wire since less current is needed to accomplish the same task.

I'm not going to point out exactly who or which points I didn't agree with, but I am going voice my opinion since science and practical application are a passion of mine. We're here to learn, I'm still learning, and I'll always be. I hope to keep learning how woodworking has changed in the last 20 years!

Now, I'm off to read some more of Bill Pentz's articles but before I go; stop wasting time grounding your PVC ducts! You simply CANNOT ground an insulator, PERIOD. But that's another soap box for another thread.


----------



## REO (Sep 20, 2012)

Skibird using your own example numbers ALL wingdings in your motor are made for 110v on 110 volts they are run in parallel pairs. when you rewire the motor for 220 the wingdings are in series wattage is equal in both cases across PAIRS of wingdings. ExI=watts Or VOLTS x amps = watts. 110×6.78 amps/winding pair in paralell =746 watts. 220×3.39 Because they are in series still gives you a total of 746 watts. A wash for heat, power and use. At either voltage.









transmission wire size is not determined by voltage or watts it is sized by amperage, resistance is kept at a minimum. motor windings are designed to be restive to induce a magnetic flux or the motor would not function. of the reverse were true current draw would decrease the harder a motor was worked rather than increasing due to back emf.


----------



## Mike_D_S (May 3, 2012)

Well, not to step in the middle of the electrical discussion, but it seems like the discussion is heavily focused on the voltage to the motor without much info on what is happening in the motor. The line above to the article about motors is helpful if you understand the fundamentals, so I took a screen snap and added some notes to help people understand the basics.

From the windings perspective inside the motor, they don't know the difference between 110V in and 220V in since each physical winding sees the same amperage in either case.










This also should hopefully help to explain some of the discussion above about convertible motors. Essentially, to be convertible by the end user, each winding has to have a wire which runs to the outside of the motor housing so the user can effectively change how the motor is wired (windings linked in series or parallel). Now a particularly innovative end user might actually disassemble the motor and change the way the windings are terminated, but for the majority of people, if the wiring isn't already in place so they can just change the wiring without opening the motor, it should probably be considered "not convertible".

Also, I do have a HF DC and my motor definitely falls into the "not convertible" family. Due to knocking the switch box off one time, I can tell you that my specific motor only has wires for 110V config coming out of it.

One other thing I'd address is that this thread starts with the "so called" 2 HP HF motor. The HF motor is indeed capable of providing 2 HP of work, but a dust collector does more work when it moves more air. The HF motor/blower setup has poor performance at higher static pressures, so the HF setup simple creates enough back pressure that the motor just doesn't move enough air to need to draw 2 HP. So if you reduce the back pressure on the system (disconnect the hose from the filter dish/bag assembly) the air flow increase will raise the motor amperage to approximately 2 HP.

So it's more correct to say that the HF collector as configured has enough static pressure built in which limits the demand on the motor to 1 1/2 HP or less. I see a lot of people who measure the motor amps and say the motor itself is mis-labeled and is really only 1.5HP, but the motor only draws as much current as it needs to to do the work required and the HF design only requires 1.5HP of work.

Mike


----------



## REO (Sep 20, 2012)

Very well said Mike. and pictures too!


----------

