# Furniture business - CNC



## buck_cpa

I'm looking to buy a 5-axis CNC to carve some custom chairs I have in sketchup. I have a few questions/comments for anyone who has experience with CNC machines:

1. If my business plan is a disaster, is there a decent secondary market for the CNC machine?
2. Thoughts on general demand for $2,000 custom chairs/rockers - I want to produce maloof-style carved rockers, chairs, and Windsor chairs.

I'm looking at a $25k investment - machine, training, software, contingencies, and first bulk purchase of wood.

Any advise/comments/horror stories are very much welcome.

Thanks


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## helluvawreck

You might could make signs on the side until you develop other products. Who knows? You might enjoy making signs.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## Ger21

1) How are you getting a 5 axis CNC and software for $25,000?

2) Have you ever used or programmed a 5 axis router? Have you ever had your parts cut on one?

My belief is that you almost never buy a CNC to start a business. You buy one to make an existing business more efficient.
If your business fails, the machine won't automatically start making money. It's up to you to find work to keep the machine busy. Not always an easy task.

I also believe that 5 axis machines have very specific uses. Due to their high costs, they need to make specific high dollar parts that can't be made other ways to actually make money.

Other than a Shopbot 5 axis, which is I believe in the $50K range plus software, a 5 axis router will typically start in the $200,000 plus range. So It's important to know how you're getting one for $25K. If it's a used machine, you can easily spend $10-20K in parts if it has issues. Since it's so cheap, this would be a major concern.

I would think that you could make the parts on a 4 axis machine for much less money. You might need some jigs or fixtures for certain operations, but you'd probably need jigs and fixtures to hold your parts on the CNC as well.


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## Ger21

> 2. Thoughts on general demand for $2,000 custom chairs/rockers - I want to produce maloof-style carved rockers, chairs, and Windsor chairs.


The market for those types of items is very small. And it's not something you can easily jump into and be successful. Typically, it takes many years of building high quality products to build up a good reputation, and get the word out to potential customers.
Also, at that price, the products need to be of exceptional quality. If you haven't built these types of products before, it can take months or years to perfect your designs and building techniques to get your products to the quality level they need to be at.

Just my 2 cents.


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## rick1955

http://sammaloofwoodworker.com/woodstudio.html
Maloof Studio's is still in business. Don't they would think much of your plan. I don't think have thought this out at all. Do you actually have any business, woodworking, design, CNC experience?


> ?


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## buck_cpa

Great questions Rick.

I have business experience. I'm CPA in public practice for last 8 years. I have a business degree and a MBA. I am hobby woodworker, former computer programmer, website developer, and cad user.

This is part of my research/idea phase. I appreciate the skepticism.

I wonder what the maloof studio thinks about any business idea that might compete with them.


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## fge

I would not recommend starting out in debt to a machine without any form of business going. We just added a 3 axis machine from an Auction. I had shipping and set up cost and I feel we ended up with a sweet deal, but at the end of it all, I still had a very fair amount of money invested. But we invested cash that was profits from ongoing business we had generated through time and growth.

I would agree with Ger21, add a CNC to a business to increase efficiency rather than start out with a CNC. I love buying from auctions, and some of the auctions I go to have nice large CNC machines. A recent auction, the shop was second generation, been open for several several years. The second generation owner way over spent on his CNC, and now he is closed and folks like me picked through what was left of him. My point is, a CNC can help you when bought at the right time and armed with good knowledge, but on the other side of the coin a CNC can be a business' downfall if purchased without proper knowledge or at the wrong time.


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## BinghamtonEd

I don't think the Maloof studio sees a maloof-style CNC'd chair as competition. People who can afford to, and are waiting to, wait in line to pay 10's of thousands of dollars for a hand-made chair are not about to get out of line because someone offered them a $2k computer-made knockoff.

That's kind of like someone with millions of dollars buying a fake Gucci bag for $10 out of a cardboard box on the sidewalk in NYC because it was cheaper than the real one in the store.

It's not to say people won't pay $2k for the imitation product, it's just to say that the people waiting for chairs from the Maloof studio most likely won't.


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## rick1955

Competition is one thing but your plan sounds like downright theft! It would be one thing to say "Comtemporary Rocking Chairs" but "Maloof" style Rockers. Study up on Thomas Moser…
http://www.amazon.com/Thos-Moser-Artistry-Wood-Thomas/dp/0811836118/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1410973913&sr=8-1&keywords=thomas+moser


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## buck_cpa

I was using "maloof-style" as a reference to give you an idea. My chairs are not the same exact dimensions, materials, or even overall shape and flow. I'm not looking to replicate anything - just use varied influences to build an economical comfortable chair.


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## DrDirt

> I don t think the Maloof studio sees a maloof-style CNC d chair as competition. People who can afford to, and are waiting to, wait in line to pay 10 s of thousands of dollars for a hand-made chair are not about to get out of line because someone offered them a $2k computer-made knockoff.
> 
> - BinghamtonEd


If Sam was still alive - I would agree with you.

But it is less clear what the waiting list/competition is, now that you are buying a Maloof Rocker that Sam will not have ever touched or looked at.
The reason they went for 45K, is the man, and the cachet - - just like your Gucci example.

Fact is there is no more "ORIGINAL" or "REAL" Maloof rockers. Sams boys just have more experience and original templates and equipment.

So indeed, someone cranking out Sams design on a CNC flooding the market with rapid machine produced chairs…. is likely to be frowned upon. I would EXPECT a lawsuit from the Maloof foundation. Sam was OK with imitation… but once you go mass production… that rises above the guy selling a few chairs a year at Art shows.

EDIT - - I see Buck posted while I was typing….


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## Surfside

Never thought that CNC stuff is really expensive!


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## Underdog

I'd be one that would say if you have the money for a router, then get one. I don't know about a five axis, but a 3 axis router can quickly pay for itself doing part cutout. It's the one machine in the cabinet shop I work for that has paid for itself many times over. Now of course it does depend on how much business you can drum up, so don't blame me if you don't make it….

I noticed that Legacy CNC mills have the rotary axis and three axis designs that can make furniture. They designed a chair project just to show that it can be done, and sent out a booklet on it just recently. Showed the Explorer in there. It'd be worth a call…


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