# Reluctantly joined the Sawstop Club



## TrentFysty (Mar 18, 2011)

Thanks for the review. It sounds like Sawstop makes a good quality table saw. I have looked and looked at a Sawstop with the same type of questions that you pose here. The thing that really bothers me about the Sawstop is the incredibly high price. I realize that, relatively speaking, the increase in price is small compared to saving a finger but it's still a lot of money to put into a saw.

I am really hoping for some other saw manufacturers to jump on the Sawstop idea and make something similar. The competition would help to drive down the price and bring a great safety feature to the market. Until that happens I just don't know if I have the extra $1300 in my budget to spend over another quality table saw to have the added safety.

Please make note that I am not slamming Sawstop but just wondering if there is really $1300 of additional material, R&D, and labor that goes into the saw to add this feature. It would seem that the price could be lowered, either by Sawstop of their own accord, or through competition and still provide a great saw.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

I am not a Saw stop owner nor will I ever be, but as an ER doctor, you made a wise decision. If I were a doctor or musician, I certainly wouldn't take a chance with my fingers. I feel that your choice of a 1-3/4hp over a 3hp saw was not a good decision. You obviously did much research on saws and you are right up to a point. The # 1 reason why you get poor cuts in hard and thick woods is not enough power. If the power is not there, what happens is the speed of the blade slows down, causing the blade to heat up. Heating causes the blade to burn, further slowing the speed down and inviting kickback. Get it hot enough and you can warp the blade. Under such circumstances, you will not be able to get clean cuts. A 3hp saw eliminates these problems for it has the power to keep spinning.
I would buy a replacement cartridge and blade so you can continue working if the saw stop kicks in. As far as cost is concerned, they probably are trying to recover development cost quickly and also because they have the only safety device that works. That comes with a premium. I wonder the safety device is made. If it were made in China, I would be wary.


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

I doubt there's an extra $1300 in anything in a sawstop; the premium price comes from the sawstop being the only one of its kind. I actually wish that other manufacturers would pay the license for the sawstop technology. I'd pay an extra $100-$300 for the technology, but the price of the sawstop alone is among festool levels. Great saw I'm sure, and if I had the cash I'd have one, but I don't, so I won't until prices come down or they license the technology to other manufacturers.


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## glassyeyes (Apr 14, 2009)

The patent-holders for the SawStop mechanism apparently tried to sell it to a current manufacturer of table saws, but they had no takers. It has been suggested that this is due to the potential for law suits. If that seems ridiculous, it is apparently a truism in the small-plane industry, where the introduction of new technology is sometimes seen as an indictment of the old gear; lawsuits follow. If memory serves, someone has already lost a suit on this general issue. I own the 3HP Professional saw. I had significant electrical problems with the saw at first, including drastic misalignment of the cartridge-to-blade gap, but I must say that the customer service was first-rate. Also, one side of the fence is quite true (parallel and square), but the left (main) side is significantly off.

I bought it for the same reason; I value my hands. In researching the problem, it seems that there are about 30,000 TS injuries a year, at an average cost of about $30k each. As a doctor, the opportunity costs would likely be much higher.

I worked for years on ladders and roofs, with no safety equipment at all. I shudder when I think about it. ANYONE can slip up, and it only takes one time. One hand specialist said that almost all of his patients with TS injuries indicated that they had removed some or all of the safety equipment. Foolish-but common.

I agree about the cartridge; a spare would be good.


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

Although I detest the business methods of the inventor of the technology, his company does make a really nice saw. I would love to own one, but they would have to come down to Grizzly levels instead of Powermatic levels in order for it to be in my price range… Kind of like having to buy a Mercedes Benz to get seat belts..

I do agree, I wish other MFGs had bought licensing and introduced the tech in more affordable saws…


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## rastus (Nov 25, 2009)

Rob, as a fellow Sawstop owner I must 2nd all your comments. I bought mine (also the 1.75HP) in March and have been very satisfied with it. As far as the extra $$ for the saw compared to others, being a fairly new company there overhead must be pretty high. Prices will only come down when and if other co.'s come up with there own safety device. I recently cut the top of my left ring finger knuckle (2 stitches inside, 7 outside)removing the blade on my lawn mower so I could sharpen it. Dr. wanted me to miss 4-5 weeks of work!! Luckily I was able to talk my employer into letting me do light work for awhile. If I had cut my finger on a tablesaw, I would have lost that finger and maybe more, so I think the extra $1000 is well worth it!

Paul


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

Thanks for the comments guys. It is a very nice TS, safety features aside, but I can't foresee the prices going down as long as Steve Gass has the patents locked up.
Paul: maybe there is a market for a lawnmower blade stop???


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## lysdexic (Mar 21, 2011)

I am in a similar line of work and I made the same decision for the same reason. I scrub my hands for surgery almost daily. Regardless of the severity of the actual injury, if the sawstop can keep me from missing just a few days work then it has paid for itself.

Congrats on your purchase.


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## NormG (Mar 5, 2010)

It is coming to the point this type of technology is going to be mandated in the near future. I am all for it. They are great saws and when possible will purchase one


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## twokidsnosleep (Apr 5, 2010)

My hands are my life as well and of all my tools, I am most nervous with my cheap Craftsman tablesaw. My kids want to get in the shop and make stuff as well sooo an upgrade as you have done is in my future.
Smart move.


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## wildbill001 (Mar 2, 2011)

Heard on the radio just the other day that the gov't is already looking into mandating this tech for ALL table-saws. I don't remember the exact number but something like 10 amputations a day due to TS injuries. Seems a little high to me but what do I know. News person said it would add something like $200-300 per saw if it goes through. I can see this technology being a god-send for businesses and potentially for DIYers but it just scares the bejeebers out of me when the gov't starts saying we have to have it. Not to mention the cost factor.

Just be careful out there….

bill


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## glassyeyes (Apr 14, 2009)

I suppose I'm a bit of a Libertarian-if you don't want to wear a motorcycle helmet, that's just fine. But why should the rest of us pay your bills from the rehab hospital if you choose not to wear one? I'm going to wear mine-and carry insurance when I screw up. So-where do we draw the line between our Freedoms and our Freebies?


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks for the objective review on this machine. As a fellow physician, I can appreciate your motivation; I'm just not quite there yet; and the debates are just too exciting to resist


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## Millo (Jan 19, 2010)

Thanks for the review. NiteWalker, I tend to agree with your logic, w/o considering the legal battle. If I had the dough at the moment, though, I would get a SawStop.


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## shopmania (Sep 8, 2009)

Thanks for the review. I would love to have a SawStop. As a chiropractor, without fingers I am done, and I am VERY careful on the TS as well as all my other tools. But like you said it only takes ONE mistake to change your life. I think you made a very wise choice, one I hope to follow suit on as soon as possible.


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## rastus (Nov 25, 2009)

Rob, thats exactly what my wife said when I showed her my finger! And just for the record I removed the blade, sharpened it and did the lawn before going to the hospital.

Paul


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

I think you'll be perfectly happy with the 1.75hp unit. I've used one several times and have had not bogging down at all, even with a full kerf blade in it. Enjoy, and thanks for the review.


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

smart move.


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

well done Paul! True character to finish the job before seeking medical attention!


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^extra character bonus for one of those tasks being the very sawblade


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

I'm reluctantly joining the "YOU SUCK" club, then ;-)

You *almost never* hear negatives about the products. What you (always) hear … is pure politics. To each their own, on that score, I say. Meanwhile, I think you got yourself a heckuva saw, and am happy FOR, and jealous OF you


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

we should have a "lumberjock of the week" award for "dedication and perseverance in the face of personal injury"


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^LOL Rob and Neil. I'm waiting for the guy with the "Starrett, Stanley, AND Sawstop suck, and I know what I'm talking about because I…...." approach.


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

And finished with Red Blood Stain.


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

lol guys. Maybe one night when I'm bored I'll start a "Stanley sucks" thread.
Neil: According to official LJ rules, I'm not sure you are allowed to be jealous of me as you still have more tools than me


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## rsdowdy (Aug 25, 2009)

If I was a surgeon, artist, musician, ect where my income revolved on the use of my digits, there is no question about what saw I would buy. You made the absolute correct choice and decision. Seeing that to get a good stright cut on a steak I have to use my tablesaw…I don't think I'll be taking their place and pushing any surgeons out onto the streets .

Royal


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## Dedvw (Jul 6, 2010)

Just to add my one cent, I have the 1.5 hp Ridgid 4511 (and have used 5 hp Powermatics). I was concerned about the hp rating on this saw too, but ended up being completely happy with its performance and the cuts it produces. I'm confident that your 1.75 will cut just fine.


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## Keith538 (Oct 11, 2010)

After the second incident with a table saw which shortened my thumb by a knuckle, I own a Sawstop contractor's saw. I am not a novice woodworker. I have over 30 years experience. However, stuff happens.
Not wanting to give up something that I love,i I spent the money for the Sawstop. Excellent saw, definitely premium priced. But twice burnt, three times shy. As it is the only game in town, I paid the price. My choice and only my choice. Would like to see other manufacturer's enter the market with this or similar technology. But I am pleased with the saw.I also suggest a spare cartridge and make sure your wood is DRY.


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## Keith538 (Oct 11, 2010)

After the second incident with a table saw which shortened my thumb by a knuckle, I own a Sawstop contractor's saw. I am not a novice woodworker. I have over 30 years experience. However, stuff happens.
Not wanting to give up something that I love, I spent the money for the Sawstop. Excellent saw, definitely premium priced. But twice burnt, three times shy. As it is the only game in town, I paid the price. My choice and only my choice. Would like to see other manufacturer's enter the market with this or similar technology. But I am pleased with the saw.I also suggest a spare cartridge and make sure your wood is DRY.


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## Lenny (Sep 28, 2008)

First, congratulations on the purchase of a fine saw Dr. Rob. I am sure you will love it. As for the debate, I have what I think is an interesting perspective to offer. Two years ago I bought what I thought was my first and last TS, a 5 hp Powermatic 2000. I absolutely love the saw. It is a high quality,well designed and smooth operating piece of machinery. Guess what? I wish I got the SawStop. I didn't do so at the time because a)in my opinion the jury was still out on the technology. Will it have false triggers? What about wet lumber? There are other tools in the shop that are as dangerous (if not more) and they don't have such technology, etc., etc. and b) I caught a 20% off sale on the PM and that was the deal breaker. Now I find myself "home alone" during the day and I want that added insurance that IF a TS accident occurs I am as safe as I can be. Lastly, I will comment about cost. If you are looking at the upper echelon of table saws, there is not a great difference in price. So if one were to compare a 3 hp PM with a 3hp SawStop cabinet saw and a 3 hp Delta Unisaw, they are similar in price, around $2800. They are also similar in quality. Those that own SawStops say that it is not just the technology that got them to buy the saw. Charles Neill (not sure of spelling) owns one and does a great undendorsed review on You Tube. Tommy Mac owns one or at least uses one on his show. So again, technology aside, the SawStop is a great saw and not outrageously priced when compared to similar quality saws.


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

Lenny; the Charles Neil video was what helped convince me. I wanted a Sawstop for the safety but the knowledge that I was getting a great TS helped.


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

damn well said Deke.


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## rsdowdy (Aug 25, 2009)

Good points Deke, but it's not that I don't value my fingers just as much as a surgeon, however, if I had to make a living with my fingers then I would buy the equipment with the built in protection as my family's well being must be taken into account in case of a stupid mistake. But as that is not the case, I'd rather spend 1/3 the money on the saw and be able to buy the planer, jointer, and bandsaw as well since I have to look out for my family's well being and make financially sound purchases. I was just supporting his decision to buy the expensive protective saw as a fincially sound purchase to protect his investment in his career.

With my luck, if I bought a stopsaw, stopplaner, stopjointer, stopbandsaw, and stoprouter, then the shopvac would suck all the oxygen out of the room and be the death of me….but I am paranoid of vaccume cleaners so I think I might be safe enough.

Royal


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## blackivory69 (Feb 21, 2010)

I'm not a surgeon, nor a musician either. We're not rich, but when my "Commander-in-chief" saw the Sawstop, she told me right away "BUY IT". I told her, "But Honey we don't have the money". She replied, "I don't care, just buy it". So I said my farewell to my Unisaw and bought the 3HP Cabinet model. 

To tell you all the truth, when I had my INCA and my Unisaw, I was worried about TWO things only, that is cutting (off) my finger and the kickback. But now that I have the Sawstop, I am worried now of THREE things, 1st - cutting off my fingers. 2nd - kickback, and 3rd - buying another cartidge and blade (WWII). That's why I'm more careful and afraid of this saw (which I think is a good thing) than when I had those other TS. Yes, even though I know the machine has the safety feature, I don't want to find out. So every time I see the blade spins, it still scare the hell out of me.  By the way, congrats on your new TS.


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## DamnYankee (May 21, 2011)

If I'd had the money when I bought my ridgid r4511 I might have bought a SawStop.


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