# Most accurate miter cuts (frames, etc...) Incra?



## SoCalWoody (May 29, 2019)

Good morning,

I am new to this forum and I have always enjoyed woodworking and plan on building out my shop with equipment and supplies to get going. My first goal will be frames for various art pieces and I want to produce very high quality products and eventually get into more elaborate joinery work.

My question is, I want to be able to create the most accurate cuts possible, my miter saw doesn't do a good job of this and I've spent a long time getting it as accuracies as possible. It would be fine for most trim work, but not what I am trying to accomplish.

I've researched and came across Incra Miter Gauges and these look very promising, but I'd like to get some feedback here on how to produce the most accuracy cuts as possible. I will be working with various types of wood, though I prefer walnut and the pieces would be large as I like robust looking art frames.

Thank you!


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

If you are doing a lot of frames, consider a miter trimmer. Rough cut with the miter saw, finish with the miter trimmer. It will give a cleaner and more accurate finished cut. It's very much a single purpose tool, but for what you are talking about, it might well be the best tool for the job. If doing a lot, I would find one of the dual bladed, foot operated units.

Edit: Like this one. https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/tls/d/tarzana-ctd-guillotine-in-good/6897213392.html


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

A cheaper solution (though more time consuming) than what JayT suggested is a shooting board with a hand plane. Once tuned properly, it can give very consistent and clean miters every time. 









Edit to add: I do use an Incra miter gauge on my table saw and highly recommend it. But with any tablesaw and any miter gauge, there is going to be some variables that make perfect, air tight mating miter cuts every single time impossible. At least that's my opinion…


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## SoCalWoody (May 29, 2019)

In terms of length, using either the shooting board or miter trimmer, how do you get the exact length dialed in?


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

Stops on an extension table is the most accurate and fastest way. If you look at the CL posting I linked, there is a gold colored stop system on the right wing. Cut both sides a bit long, use the trimmer with your frame on the left wing to get an accurate 45 on one end, switch the piece over to the other side with the stop and trim that one to length. Now you have two matching pieces. Reset the stop for the other sides and repeat.

For a shooting board, it would be a bit more difficult. You could make an extension table and add a stop system (Kreg makes a good one). If not using that you would have to cut and trim the first side, use it to mark the second and then sneak up on a perfect fit.


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## SoCalWoody (May 29, 2019)

I like to work with walnut and other darker woods creating robust design pieces. Would the miter trimmer be a good solution for larger pieces of walnut, or would it apply too much pressure for the tool?


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

Shooting boards is a very good way to make perfect miters. The hardest part will be learning how to sharpen you tool.
To make two matching side we stack them together lining up the ends.
You will be surprised how precise you can be with just the feel of your fingers. You will be able to detect a few thousands difference between two pieces.
I use a low angle miter plane made by Lie Neilson #9 my bench hook is not very fancy but very capable.
Don't be surprised if it takes you a good year to learn. Well worth the time spent when you find your self mitering everything from pine to hickory. 
Good Luck


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

Not unless you are building giant frames out of timber. A miter trimmer is designed to just shave the end down a bit at a time, not make the whole cut. That's why you rough cut just a bit long on the miter saw first. The blades of a miter trimmer need to be razor sharp to work well and since they are angled, they are shearing just a small part of the board at at time, not the whole width at once. For any reasonable size, they will do a fantastic job.

Here's a video of a very similar model to the one I linked above






Again, this tool has one very specific purpose and it's designed to do it very, very well. If you are doing a lot of picture framing, it would be a good investment. If you doing a little framing and a lot of cabinetry or furniture building, then a shooting board is a lot more versatile.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> If you are doing a lot of frames, consider a miter trimmer. Rough cut with the miter saw, finish with the miter trimmer. It will give a cleaner and more accurate finished cut. It s very much a single purpose tool, but for what you are talking about, it might well be the best tool for the job. If doing a lot, I would find one of the dual bladed, foot operated units.
> 
> Edit: Like this one. https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/tls/d/tarzana-ctd-guillotine-in-good/6897213392.html
> 
> - JayT












here is a smaller version of the one jayt shows which i use myself to make frames or when i want a perfect miter corner.they sell for around 2-250 bucks.

looks like i was posting at the same time jayt.


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

^^ Yep, one of those for a few. Foot powered one for doing a bunch.


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## Jared_S (Jul 6, 2018)

I have a lion miter trimmer, if i was doing picture frames with any frequency I'd have a morso or similar miter chopper.

Morso:


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## SoCalWoody (May 29, 2019)

Thank you all for helping me with this. It seems the best solution to perfect miter cuts would be the lion miter trimmer. I can make the cut on my table saw and then transfer to the trimmer to get perfect joints. I'll have to come up with some kind of jig with stops to make sure my lengths are perfect as well.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

My first miter saw was a Delta. It did not do compound cuts. It was because of that it was so accurate. I ticked off a friend, who owned a framing shop, saying I could get cuts as good as hers with it.

I noted she only had a Dewalt compound and relied on other toys common to picture framing shops to do her work.

I showed her a couple of my frames and they seemed to annoy her even more. They were TIGHT.

The old Delta was a breeze to fine tune and, with stops, gave me dead on joints, even with twelve sided frames.

Now, I have a Dewalt and a Bosch. I miss my Delta.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> I have a lion miter trimmer, if i was doing picture frames with any frequency I d have a morso or similar miter chopper.
> 
> Morso:
> 
> ...


Gonna go out on a limb, that Kenny's suggestion to use a shooting board is gonna be more affordable 

For the cuts I really like Following this path.

https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/314908


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## Axis39 (Jul 3, 2019)

I've had an Incra Miter1000SE for a long, long time. I find it to be particularly accurate and like it a lot. I love it so much, I broke down earlier this year and bought an Incra TS-LS fence system as well…. It should be here in a few weeks.

But, I do keep a shooting board and use it regularly as well. I do a lot of hand plane work, though. So, using (and maintaining) them is second nature.


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## Jimarco (May 15, 2015)

Plus one on a miter trimmer… buy an extra blade to have one to use while the other is being sharpened.


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## dovetaildoc (Oct 11, 2021)

I've got the Mother of all miter trimmers that I'd like to sell. It's an Oliver #2 freestanding trimmer in great condition.
It's from 1916 and works as well today as it did 105 years ago. It's probably about 350# of old iron. I listed it on vintage machinery website to see pictures. Located in Minneapolis.

http://vintagemachinery.org/classifieds/detail.aspx?id=21201&p=4


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

I'll side with Steve on this one.

At least try a miter sled and/or shooting board before you you spend that much money on a "one trick pony"!

You're comment " building out my shop with equipment and supplies" caught my eye. Be careful here, especially with hand tools. Start small, start building and you'll soon recognize which tools are indispensable vs nice to have.

There's no joy buying a tool like a miter trimmer, after the job is done, since I'm not a professional picture framer so it sits in the shelf 98% of its life.

You can produce high quality frames with a miter sled. Check Steves reference and watch a few videos.


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## Peteybadboy (Jan 23, 2013)

I have the Incra 1000 miter gauge extremely accurate. I have it on their sled.


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## newwoodbutcher (Aug 6, 2010)

I've always been a bit puzzled about the concerns expressed here and other WW platforms about cutting accurate miter joints. For over 20 years I cut miters on my table saw with the Dubby. They always came out perfect. A while back I replaced my Dubby with the Incra 5000. Same results, nicer tool. I use my Incra 5000 as my cross cut sled and miter guage nothing else is required and I think the Incra will last a very long time.


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## JackDuren (Oct 10, 2015)

> I ve always been a bit puzzled about the concerns expressed here and other WW platforms about cutting accurate miter joints. For over 20 years I cut miters on my table saw with the Dubby. They always came out perfect. A while back I replaced my Dubby with the Incra 5000. Same results, nicer tool. I use my Incra 5000 as my cross cut sled and miter guage nothing else is required and I think the Incra will last a very long time.
> 
> - Ken Masco


I used an Incra at the furniture company, but have good results using my DW708..Depends on the user and the tool.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

The miter gauge is only part of the solution. Good thing is you can get a miter gauge that will have a perfect pre-set angle with respect to the miter bar for not a lot of cash.

The problem areas is having the saws miter slot parallel to the blade and a good fit of the miter bar in the slot.


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## MPython (Nov 30, 2018)

If you're looking for perfect 45º cuts off yor saw, consider building a miter sled for your table saw. They are (in my opinion) easier to user than a miter guage and you can dial in the perfect, reperatable 45º cutting angle when you build it. You may still find a shooting board helpful to adjust the length in .001 increments.


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## NohoGerry (Dec 6, 2021)

I'd like to suggest taking a step back for a minute.

Why doesn't your miter saw produce satisfactory results? Could it be the blade (i.e. number of teeth is directly related to smoothness of cut).

I understood you have spent a considerable amount of time on adjusting the miter saw without getting the results you need. Have you tried using a 45 degree drafting triangle to set the blade? It's an extremely inexpensive solution to ensuring your blade tracks exactly at 45 degrees, whether using a miter saw, or miter guage on the tablesaw. My Hitachi SCMS is over 20yrs old, and properly set up (45 degree drafting triangle and 80 tooth blade), I've been able to cut picture frame quality joints in wide pieces of hardwood.

As a woodworker who has done a fair amount of joinery work on projects, I'd hesitate suggesting to you that you spend a lot of money on a miter trimmer, unless you want to go into the picture framing business. Use those dollars for other tools that apply to more types of joinery work. Especially if it's the case that the trimmer could cost $250 or more. You might add $100 to that amount and get a better quality miter saw.

I do agree with the shooting board jig solution suggested, as I've built one myself and it does a great job with a well tuned plane (which you can use in other woodworking projects).

Regarding the Incra Miter guage, it's a very well made (and expensive) tool, but ask yourself, "will you really need to be cutting angles in 5 degree increments?" If you're going to cut picture frame miters on a tablesaw, an accurately set miter guage that came with the saw, coupled with an extension fence of baltic birch or mdf screwed onto it with a cutoff stop will do exactly what the $220 Incra guage will do. When you're done cutting the picture frame pieces, take the fence off and move on to other projects.

Just my thoughts on this issue.

Gerry


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