# Rich's Ruminations



## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

This is a thread for me to chew my cud and post wood-related thoughts, links, tips and the occasional trick for getting the best from time spent in the shop. I don't work like everyone else. I don't pay attention to what social media influencers are doing. I will simply try to show what I do and why.

It is also a place for you to share your ideas and discoveries. Don't post what you had for breakfast, what pills you took, or how gout is killing your time in the shop. There are plenty of other places to share that. Instead, let's keep it about how we work in the shop.

If you do a project or blog post that shows some tip or trick you discovered, post a link here and tell us a little about it. Heck, even if you're just proud of your work, share a link.

My time on LumberJocks has taught me more in just a few years than I learned in the previous fifty-plus (yes, I'm old and started young). Sadly, some of the best teachers have moved on, or passed away. I've seen the site's new garde, and it shows promise. What I also see is a serious lack of signal to noise ratio. That means those with good ideas are often drowned out by others with little to offer, but much to say.

This is not a mega-thread. We're not looking to reach some silly target of X posts. Who cares? To me, what would make this thread worth the effort is if even a few LJs benefit from it. Nothing gives me more pleasure than when someone says, "Thanks, that was helpful."

So, please join me in this journey. It'll likely be quite random. I hope it will be fun. I don't have an agenda other than to provide a forum for woodworkers to talk to each other about woodworking.

One final rule: *No. Hurt. Feelings*. I can't stress that enough. We can't learn if we're coddled. Constructive criticism is the best way to improve. Let's take that to heart and behave ourselves-that is, keep it constructive, not personal. If I have an issue with your behavior here, I will send you a polite PM explaining why I had a concern. I will not admonish you publicly. After that, what happens is up to you.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

For the obligatory first post, I'll start with this: Festool is a system. Once you realize that, spending 4X what an "equivalent" tool costs won't seem so dumb.

I've switched to using my Festool TSC 55 K track saw exclusively. For my latest project, I didn't even power on my table saw.

Stick around and I'll be posting photos.


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## Vandon (Jan 21, 2020)

> For the obligatory first post, I ll start with this: Festool is a system.
> 
> - Rich


How did you come to that conclusion? Who told you that?


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Good luck with this Rich. It looks like it could be interesting.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> For the obligatory first post, I ll start with this: Festool is a system.
> 
> - Rich
> 
> ...


Who told me? It's what Festool is built on.

But if you need some examples… The MFT is the same height as the MW 1000, which is the same height as the STM 1800, as well as the Kapex when it's on its stand.

The tracks for the track saw double as router guides, eliminating the need for something like a dado stack. They offer a complete 32mm package. I'm sure you know all about 32mm and its history.

The OF 1010 is a complete routing system. Everything from dados, to grooves, to edge trimming is there in one package. There's the OF 1400 for times you need a beefier tool, and it's compatible with those attachments.

The Domino. Whew, that's a mouthful. Is is a glorified biscuit joiner? You might think so, but you'd be wrong.

Bluetooth batteries for cordless tools that interface with your CT. I could (and likely will) go on-and-on.

I appreciate your question. While I don't intend this to be a Festool thread, Festool is currently at the core of how I work. Stick around and you'll see why.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Good luck with this Rich. It looks like it could be interesting.
> 
> - shipwright


Thanks Paul. Needless to say, your input is very welcome. We'll see how it goes.

And, by the way, you are one of the mentors I've learned a great deal from.


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

From an Engineer´s perspective ( tho I am not one), it is easy to see why the interlocking Festool system is so appealing - because its German! Lol.

Where I get my blades sharpened they have a full line of Festool gadgets on display, and I have to be really careful and avert my eyes from that side of the shop whenever I go in there, less I come out alot poorer and owning something I dont really need.

I have a few of their products, going on 15 yrs old, still going strong, but maybe the brushes on one of the sanders need replacing. Here, one sanding disc for the 125 is 1 euro, that is spensive!!!

*Pro-tip*, sanding discs can be cleaned up and reused a few times by cleaning them with a rubber block same as belts for a belt sander, etc,.


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## 987Ron (Apr 9, 2020)

Enjoyed and learned from your other posts, so look forward to observing this on also. good luck with it.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

Festool is a system. And even individual tools on their own without considering the rest of the line are top-shelf. I don't own a single one but there's no denying the overwhelmingly high opinions held by professionals and advanced amateurs alike. If you spend that kinda dough on one tool and it doesn't really impress, you don't buy another one. But most everyone I know that has one, has several.

If I were a pro or even trying to make money with woodworking as a side hustle, I would drink the green Koolaid. Heck, if woodworking were my only hobby, I'd probably invest. In any case, the Shaper Origin and the workstation haven't fallen entirely off my radar. It's a hefty price tag for a hobbyist but I'm constantly thinking of cool things I could make with one. If something green this way comes one day, it'll probably be one of those 

Good idea for a thread Rich. I don't know how much I'll have to offer but I'll be following along. I will throw this in for anyone it may help: One thing that's really made some projects more efficient for me is the Incra Ibox jig. Box joints are functional and can be decorative and take a lot less time to make than dovetails whether they be done with power tools and a jig or by hand. At least for me. And Rich has a great blog post on getting it set up quickly that anyone who uses one should bookmark. It's a better reference than Incra's own videos and documentation on the subject.


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## 1thumb (Jun 30, 2012)

Do you wear black turtlenecks, Rich?


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

I have a Festool router and a domino the small machine. I have some tricks I use that I cannot share. Because if I did I'd have to kill you. 
Good Luck


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Do you wear black turtlenecks, Rich?
> 
> - 1thumb


LOL, no. And we won't be having poetry readings to dramatic bongo drum beats either.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

passing by so i though id say hi.ive got a couple festools, expensive yes but high quality and worth what i paid i feel.
good luck with this thread rich i like the vibe and will contribute when and how i can.

hey, you sure about the bongo drums ?


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> *Pro-tip*, sanding discs can be cleaned up and reused a few times by cleaning them with a rubber block same as belts for a belt sander, etc,.
> 
> - wildwoodbybrianjohns


Those little babies will save you a bundle on sanding media. I mentioned it in another thread, but I've found a maroon 3M non-woven pad is very useful for cleaning off corning (which don't seem to be removed cleanly by the rubber blocks). If you work mostly with film finishes, and allow them to cure properly before sanding, you won't be as likely to have that problem.

However, since I started doing more with Osmo Polyx-oil, I have found that even after it's fully cured, if you do need to do any sanding, it clogs the paper with little chunks that build up pretty quickly. I've heard it called corn so I'll stick with that term. I've tried lots of different means to clean them off like scraping with a stiff putty knife and ultimately have found the 3M pads work best for me.

BTW, since you mentioned sanding discs, I seem to recall someone sold a round tray for your ROS that had a chun of that rubber in it so you could clean every time you set the sander down.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> hey, you sure about the bongo drums ?
> 
> - pottz


I'm sure. No Maynard G. Krebs here.


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

Whether you are a pro shop, hobbiest, or just dabble once in a while in the odd woodworking project, every shop is set up differently.
Every shop has its "system" of tools and equipment that usually works for them.
Even the most complex projects can be easily tackled, if your system is set up for it.

Chairs are the first thing that comes to mind. 
The big shops that make chairs are set up to make chairs all day long. 
Used to be, you could buy an unfinished dining chair blank for about $35 wholesale. 
That boggles my mind, because to make even one chair in my garage, (not set up for chair making), is quite a multi-day project.

So, depending on your goals in woodworking, the cost of Festool, CNC gadgets, or whatever specialty tools are required for your project, aren't really expensive at all.
For me, a $110k Router is the most effective and most affordable way to make what I make, yes, way, way cheaper than a basic table saw.

So, each shop should evaluate what the needs for that shop are to produce whatever items it wants to compete with, even if it is just cutting boards. (No disrespect to cutting board makers)


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

As I go deeper into hand tool woodworking I don't see festool in my future. Like Kenny, if I were trying to do more production work it would be different. That said, I have never run across anyone who felt that Festool isn't worth the money other than people that won't buy one.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

after many years and many tools i firmly believe in buying the best i can afford,much cheaper in the long run and ive never had a tool that didn't pay for it self with the money ive saved making furniture or cabinets myself. id love to go to someone that puts down festool and say hey ill give you a free router do you want dewalt or would you like a festool and see what they say ?


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

Been making sawdust for nigh on to 50 years. Done my share of cabinets and, furniture. Both commercial and residential. Never tried to make a business out of my shops. Been retired, from a field not remotely related to woodworking, since I turned 60. That was 21 years ago. Now, I'm a hack, a dabbler, with a Shopsmith centric shop.
There are only two suggestions I can make presently. I'll post more as they occur to me. 
The first is regarding saw blades. Buy the best saw blades you can find and, locate a good professional sharpening outfit. And, try to always use blades configured for the job at hand. Sometimes, a 7 1/4 blade in a table saw will serve the purpose well. SCMSs require their own blade. All my blades are Tenryus. Well made with plenty of carbide. And, semi related, don't waste your $$ on a track saw. I've made several at different lengths. All that's needed is a length of 3/4 BB or other good ply into which a length of Ttrack is embedded. A matching insert of suitable length is attached to your Circular saw's sole plate. Most circulare saws will have holes in the plate. Machine screws/bolts through the insert and the sole plate are secured with wing nuts.Your first cut establishes the edge to line up to your cut line. 
The second suggestion is to quit using tape measures for machine settings. IMO tapes are not precise enough for anything other than gross length measurements. And, don't waste your money on those over priced set up blocks sets, either. Keyway stock works just as well. My set starts at 1/8 and goes to 3/4, in 1/16 increments. I'm sure you'll find a bunch of applications for them with other than saw set ups. Oh yeah, a deck of playing cards come in handy, too.


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

I will be dipping my toes into the Festool system soon but its for drywall work in my house so opting for a Planex and dust extractor combo. The budget committee…aka the wife…was a tough sell until a buddy of mine that does drywall work professionally brought his over for her to see in action. After that she said I was dumb for not buying one already.

As for tips on wood working I doubt I have any to share but have added this thread to my watch list to be a silent observer. Now if anyone wants to know how to restore some old hand tools I might have a thing or two I can add to that conversation.


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## JRsgarage (Jan 2, 2017)

Being a hobbyist, it's been difficult to justify Festool prices. But recently I promised a good friend that I would help him in building 12-16 wedding benches for his Daughter's wedding in Sept, which is how I justified my domino purchase. I've been playing around with it and it seems like an amazing tool….cleaning up all my scraps practicing.

Another item that I discovered somewhat recently that I really like are 3M pps systems…really makes clean up so much easier.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Hi Rich, interested to see how this thread plays out.

I pretty much agree with DS above. My intent when I started putting together a ww shop was to have capability to do things but at low volume, so expensive systems never interested me. Good thing, too, because about 5 years ago I got very interested in wood turning (after about 5 years of just playing around with it) and most of my flat work tools dont get much love anymore. I keep them knowing some projects will come along for them.

It does seem the traffic level on LJ's has dwindled considerably over the last 5-7 yrs. People post a question etc and never come back. Perhaps its the "instant gratification" syndrome, which is what I see with fb, reddit, and the others that follow that format. They're pretty useless from my perspective - I like the way LJ's is set up. Easy to bookmark things, build a blog, review items, etc all in one pkg. Makes it easy to answer repetitive questions with a link vs typing crap out again. Good luck with this!


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Festool is almost as much fun as Sawstop! 

I'm not going to get into the argument other than to say the everyone needs to find their own comfort level with cost/quality/hype.
What I will say is that to me quality, craftsmanship, whatever you'd like to call it isn't found in the tools.
In modern terminology, don't look at the hardware. Look at the software.
Just sayin'……


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

To expand on what Gene said, there are a lot of tools that are handy, especially some of the doo-dad accessories that are coming out for the bigger tools.

I think set up blocks are a great asset, but I don't own a set.

Consider the alternatives:

For anything <= 1/2", you already have a set in 1/64" increments if you can use your drill set (and the shafts are not totally buggered 8^)

I use these all the time to set my router table bit height where the bottom of the cut is the critical dimension (slot cutters, etc.)

Key stock is nice, but most are a few thousandths undersized to serve their purpose. Some of the cheap assortments with "undersized" widths will actually have their heights at accurate fractional increments, just mark the sides to use.

If you ever order tools from MSC Direct or McMaster, add in a section of "oversized" key stock. Dirt cheap and exactly at the fractional boundaries. I use short cuts from these as the key in miter gauge box joint jigs and to space the key from the blade when setting up the jig.

Common 6" steel rulers are typically 3/4". Small steel squares often are 1" or 1/4" increments beyond that.

Anyhoo, just sayin'. Plenty of alternatives to consider before laying down more cash.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Festool is almost as much fun as Sawstop!
> 
> I'm not going to get into the argument other than to say the everyone needs to find their own comfort level with cost/quality/hype.
> What I will say is that to me quality, craftsmanship, whatever you'd like to call it isn't found in the tools.
> ...


LOL. I thought I mentioned a couple of time that this is not a Festool thread. It's good to see the comments though.

Of course, now that you've mentioned SawStop…


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> For anything <= 1/2", you already have a set in 1/64" increments if you can use your drill set (and the shafts are not totally buggered 8^)
> 
> - splintergroup


Great suggestion. Even the pricey red anodized setup blocks don't do 64ths.


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## redlee (Apr 11, 2016)

Enjoy the process !
Dont be in a rush.
'Learn from mistakes.
Ask for help.
Buy a Wood Stove it will keep you warm and hide your screwups.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> Enjoy the process !
> Dont be in a rush.
> Learn from mistakes.
> Ask for help.
> ...


great advise,as ive gotten older and have more time i want to enjoy the process and not rush to "get it done".one reason i dont want to do commssions anymore.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

I use the brass set up blocks since they're not red they weren't over priced.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> I use the brass set up blocks since they re not red they weren t over priced.
> 
> - corelz125


oh hey bud if there not red,dont trust em ! ;-))


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

Richard, Here a couple more.

Don't work tired, quit early. Take a extra time to think things thru and do a practice run or three.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> Richard, Here a couple more.
> 
> Don t work tired, quit early. Take a extra time to think things thru and do a practice run or three.
> 
> - BurlyBob


good advise bob,many times ive pushed myself way beyond when i should have quit for the day,and well,made regrettable mistakes !


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

usually when the mistakes start to get rolling thats when I know its time to hang it up. It usually only gets worse from there


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> oh hey bud if there not red,dont trust em ! ;-))
> 
> - pottz


Mine are blue, what should I do?


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> oh hey bud if there not red,dont trust em ! ;-))
> 
> - pottz
> 
> ...


oh man,id just donate to someone in need !


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

well sadly i have to confess,im no better….......head hung low !


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> well sadly i have to confess,im no better….......head hung low !
> 
> - pottz


Uh-huh.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

You know how sometimes you need to attach drawer fronts to the boxes? How do you all do that? There are clamping systems, but they're a pain.

Any ideas?


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> You know how sometimes you need to attach drawer fronts to the boxes? How do you all do that? There are clamping systems, but they re a pain.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> - Rich


well what i do is i have a jig that aligns the drill holes to the drawer front.once i have the holes drilled for the handle i screw the face through the handle holes to the drawer box.then i pull the drawer out and screw the front to the drawer box.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> You know how sometimes you need to attach drawer fronts to the boxes? How do you all do that? There are clamping systems, but they re a pain.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> ...


You win the rumination of the day award. That was the intent of my question, and you nailed it.


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

76.42% of professional drawer-front attachers agree double-sided tape and shims are the fastestest most easiestest way to set up drawer fronts for attachment to the thingies they get attached to.


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## redlee (Apr 11, 2016)

> Richard, Here a couple more.
> 
> Don t work tired, quit early. Take a extra time to think things thru and do a practice run or three.
> 
> - BurlyBob


Yes and stop for the cup of Tea .


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

DS tape works for me.


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## CommonJoe (May 8, 2021)

23.58% of professionals shim the fronts in place, starting at the bottom, then reach into the drawer and pin them in place with 18g pin nailers working their way to the top.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Well, it looks like 0.00001% do it correctly-pottz and me. 

(Oh, and Brent Shiveley, the instructor at Festool whom I learned the method from).


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## CommonJoe (May 8, 2021)

Looks like you and pottz will have to get some help if you ever have to do touch to open drawers (blum tip-on) with no pulls.


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

A couple safety related. If you have long hair, tie it back or use a hair net. Dangling jewelry is verboten.
Acouple more things banned in my shop. Alcoholic drinks and, pop cans. The first is self-evident. The second leaves rusty rings on saw tables.
Hints: I buy toilet bowl wax rings and, push them in a plastic container like a margarine tub. Very handy to stick project screws in. Lubricates them and keeps them at the ready.
Dried outTimber Mate can be reconstituted with a few drops of cooking oil. 
To reduce tear out, packing tape is cheaper than blue tape. Plus, you can see the cut mark. 
Over the door, cheap, clear plastic shoe holders make great holders for spray cans, caulk tubes and, etc.

Rubbing Alcohol removes pencil marks from Wood.

Hydrogen peroxide softens and helps remove CA glue from fingers


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Looks like you and pottz will have to get some help if you ever have to do touch to open drawers (blum tip-on) with no pulls.
> 
> - CommonJoe


Timbermate?


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## CommonJoe (May 8, 2021)

> Looks like you and pottz will have to get some help if you ever have to do touch to open drawers (blum tip-on) with no pulls.
> 
> - CommonJoe
> 
> ...


Of course. are your fronts handmade? make sure to have your mowhock touch up kit handy.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

Tips? I am still too new to woodworking to offer any value. I do enjoy watching Paul Sellers (like him or hate him) pick up a board and study the grain directions. It was hard in the beginning for me to take grain into account. Maybe not a big deal for power tool guys but if your rebate plane only goes in one orientation grain direction can be delightful or catastrophic.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> Well, it looks like 0.00001% do it correctly-pottz and me.
> 
> (Oh, and Brent Shiveley, the instructor at Festool whom I learned the method from).
> 
> - Rich


looks like were outcasts again.luckily were not professional drwwer front attachers huh ;-))


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

"correctly" is subjective.

Traditional Japanese way to fasten drawer fronts. And the pegs are tapered so all the glue isnt pushed to the bottom of the hole. The pegs are set at an angle.


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

A couple safety related. If you have long hair, tie it back or use a hair net. Dangling jewelry is verboten.
Acouple more things banned in my shop. Alcohol and, pop cans. The first is self-evident. The second leaves rusty rings on saw tables.
A hint: I buy toilet bowl wax rings and, push them in a plastic container like a margarine tub. Very handy to stick project screws in. Lubricates them and keeps them at the ready.
Dried outTimber Mate can be reconstituted with a few drops of cooking oil. 
To reduce tear out, packing tape is cheaper than blue tape. Plus, you can see the cut mark. 
Over the door, cheap, clear plastic shoe holders make great holders for spray cans, caulk tubes and, etc.
Rubbing Alcohol removes pencil marks from Wood.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

> banned in my shop. Alcohol
> Rubbing Alcohol removes pencil marks from Wood.
> 
> - Gene Howe


You have a conflict going there Gene, just saying. (I kid)
I often go to the shop in the evening after a few and carry a beer with. I do okay as I am only hand tool at that hour. Pointy end of tool is facing away from me. I don't do power tools if I have to say "hold my beer"


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Of course. are your fronts handmade? make sure to have your mowhock touch up kit handy.
> 
> - CommonJoe


Way ahead of you, boss. I had to go back to Oct 2018 to find this.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> "correctly" is subjective.
> 
> Traditional Japanese way to fasten drawer fronts. And the pegs are tapered so all the glue isnt pushed to the bottom of the hole. The pegs are set at an angle.
> 
> ...


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

Rich, what is that black rectangular segmented thing, far right bottom corner in photo? Is that some type of brush?


> Of course. are your fronts handmade? make sure to have your mowhock touch up kit handy.
> 
> - CommonJoe
> 
> ...


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

Rich, looks like your off to a good start.

As for tool setups, I always use a steel rule.

Agree with Gene. Safety needs to be in the shop.

On drawer fronts, double sided tape.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

Alcohol and fast spinning sharp tools is an accident waiting to happen. Plus sawdust in my beer leaves a dry taste


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Rich, what is that black rectangular segmented thing, far right bottom corner in photo? Is that some type of brush?
> 
> - wildwoodbybrianjohns


It's used for leveling Mohawk Hard Fill. The five main types of fill that Mohawk sells are the Fil-Stik, Quick Fill, Hard Fill, E-Z Flow and the PlaneStick. There are others, but these can do any scratch or gouge.

Fil-Stik is putty. Quick Fill is designed to be a bit more durable than Fil-Stik but still easy to use. Both of those can be done without special tools.

E-Z Flow and PlaneStick are true burn-in sticks. Rock hard, the difference between the two is sheen. They require a burn-in knife (upper-center of the photo-that one is butane) to get the fill into the repair and the same burn-in knife is used to level it. It takes lots of practice to develop the technique to level the fill without damaging the finish. Scraping or sanding is out of the question since you're repairing a finished surface. I've got easily a couple hundred hours under my belt and am pretty confident using them when the need arises.

Finally, we get to Hard Fill. It is probably the best combination of ease and durability. You need to burn it in, but that can be done with just a soldering iron. To level it, you use that black thingy.

Here's a close-up:


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Rich, looks like your off to a good start.
> 
> - Eric


That was taken almost 4 years ago, Eric. Today, I'm in far deeper.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

The rumor mill has it that there is going to be a compact SawStop table saw announced soon. I've seen a photo and it looks like… get ready for it… A compact table saw.

I'm also hearing the list price will be $899.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> The rumor mill has it that there is going to be a compact SawStop table saw announced soon. I ve seen a photo and it looks like… get ready for it… A compact table saw.
> 
> I m also hearing the list price will be $899.
> 
> - Rich


how compact you talkin.portable contractor saw or in between ?


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> The rumor mill has it that there is going to be a compact SawStop table saw announced soon. I ve seen a photo and it looks like… get ready for it… A compact table saw.
> 
> I m also hearing the list price will be $899.
> 
> ...


No, smaller than their jobsite saw and no stand. I assume it's meant to be built into a bench the way you see guys doing it these days.


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

I'll stick with my 1962 Craftsman.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> I ll stick with my 1962 Craftsman.
> 
> - Eric


how old are you ?


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

Pottz, the saw is a few years older than I am. I picked that up at an estate sale last year. And I have it nicely tuned.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> Pottz, the saw is a few years older than I am. I picked that up at an estate sale last year. And I have it nicely tuned.
> 
> - Eric


hey as long as it does what you want and need,it's good ! it's a couple years younger than me. well i guess we just admitted our age huh-lol.


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

Pottz, yes we did. I also have a Shopsmith dating back to 1973, I have replaced a few gears and speed assembly and the drive belt. But it is a great lathe, drill press and boring. There is a shapper attachment with fence, and I recently purchased a router attachment for it (top side routing with a 1/2" shank.

Everything else in power tools are much newer, but if I can find some old ones in great shape I would go for those.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> Pottz, yes we did. I also have a Shopsmith dating back to 1973, I have replaced a few gears and speed assembly and the drive belt. But it is a great lathe, drill press and boring. There is a shapper attachment with fence, and I recently purchased a router attachment for it (top side routing with a 1/2" shank.
> 
> Everything else in power tools are much newer, but if I can find some old ones in great shape I would go for those.
> 
> - Eric


hey the quality of those old tools can be much better than anything you can buy today,at least unless your willing to refinance the house !


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

And I know enough on how to maintain them, to include the set up.


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## adot45 (Sep 9, 2016)

Hey Eric, I also use an old Craftsman table saw and love it. I don't really love the align a rip fence but it's usable.
I've replaced a few arbors and bearings over the years but parts are very easy to find. And I'm way older than my saw.


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

Those old saws work like a charm. I am thinking about building a base for mine then a larger tabletop.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Here are a few photos from the shop this morning.

I need six drawer fronts, two banks of three each. The top is 6", middle 8" and bottom 11". The top fronts are being cut from one board so the grain will flow across them. For the four remaining, I'm gluing up a single panel and cutting the fronts from it. That way the grain will be consistent vertically and across them.

Here's how I do the edge jointing and trimming to width using a track saw. Jointing the edge is easier than using a jointer, since I can line up the track to get a good edge in one pass.










Hard to see in the photo, but the track is set to cut a clean edge on the board with minimal waste.










Ready to cut.










Now that the first edge is jointed for each board, I can cut them to width. For that I use the Woodpeck parallel guides with the under-track narrow stock stops in place and set to width.

Here's what the guide looks like with the stop attached.










And here is the track set up with the guides ready to make the cut.










One final point, and it's an important one. The odds that my saw is set at 90.00º on the nose are slim to none. To compensate for that, I alternate the faces of the boards at each joint to compensate. That is, I cut one with the face up and one with it down. That way if my saw is at 89.9º, one board will be 89.9º and the other will be 90.1º. The result is that no matter what angle my saw is actually cutting, the angle of the joint will be 180º, which is a straight line.

I do the same thing when I use a jointer. You'll notice that the faces were labeled with "I" and "O" using the lumber crayon. On the jointer that tells me which face goes Inside (against the fence) and which goes Outside.

It occurred to me that with my aging feeble brain, it might be safer to use "Up" and "Down" for the track saw cuts, so I penciled that in.










And, here it is. A dead-flat panel in the clamps with cauls.










BTW, please excuse the mess. My shop is never actually clean, but when I'm in the middle of a project, it gets filthy.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

i do the same on my jointer,it's never 100% 90.


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

Or, you could use calibrated tools…
Your method works, I'm just saying, if you ever get to any serious volume, these are steps saved ($$$ saved) by having calibrated tools.

Aim small, miss small.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

Festools and Woodpeckers Oh my you're exciting the Duck if he's looking.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Festools and Woodpeckers Oh my you re exciting the Duck if he s looking.
> 
> - corelz125


Just wait. When I take off 8" for the middle drawer fronts, I'll be pulling out my Festool parallel guides. Yes, I have both. They each excel at different setups. The Festool can go down to 8" without having to switch to the under-track stops which makes the cut much easier.

I plan to post some photos showing when I use each set of guides and why.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

Sold my jointer so its only No. 7 or 8 for me these days. Track saw has been idle since I had to give up plywood use.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Sold my jointer so its only No. 7 or 8 for me these days. Track saw has been idle since I had to give up plywood use.
> 
> - controlfreak


Nothing wrong with that. Interestingly enough, a common technique for jointing edges to glue up a panel using a hand plane involves having both board's faces clamped together when you plane them. Since you can't calibrate your hand plane stroke angle, doing it that way ensures the joint comes together at 180º.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

That technique works for the vertical joint (through the thickness) but if you do not wind up with a perfectly straight edge end-to-end, it results in doubling the gap you have to close during glue up.


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

> Nothing wrong with that. Interestingly enough, a common technique for jointing edges to glue up a panel using a hand plane involves having both board s faces clamped together when you plane them. Since you can t calibrate your hand plane stroke angle, doing it that way ensures the joint comes together at 180º.
> 
> - Rich


This is the method I use for hand jointing. I mark my faces with an "F" and then number the edges 1,1 and 2,2 etc so I know how to orient everything for jointing. Now the numbers on the edges will get removed so if you aren't going to glue up right away don't forget to put them back on.

If you want to get fancy while hand jointing you can add a spring joint to your edges. I have no idea if a spring joint is beneficial but I usually add one just because I know how.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

I think that one of the main uses for spring joints may be for table tops. The spring joint helps prevent the end of the joints from separating over time.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

I know the new fad is the track saws. I bought an edge guide years ago. I use it to cut plywood to rough measurement and finish on my table saw. This is much more cost effective for me. About rough measurement, within 
1/8".


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

Rich - Any reasons or ruminations for why you chose the parallel guides, squares, etc for your track saw setup? I've been leaning towards TSO Products for rail accessories as they seem to offer quite a versatile line up with reviews heavily indicating its quality gear.


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## Peteybadboy (Jan 23, 2013)

Sansoo and Rich,

I looked at TSO and will look again.

Rich this is an interesting forum


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Rich - Any reasons or ruminations for why you chose the parallel guides, squares, etc for your track saw setup? I ve been leaning towards TSO Products for rail accessories as they seem to offer quite a versatile line up with reviews heavily indicating its quality gear.
> 
> - sansoo22


TSO products are awesome. No doubt about their quality, it was the features that I made my decision based on. BTW, I have the GRS 16 square guide and it works well.

Two reasons I went with the Woodpeck for a parallel guide were, first, I liked the four-segment arms. TSO offers a 20" and a 50", so if you go past 20, you're dealing with those long arms which can become unwieldy. Second, the Woodpeck came with two flip stops per arm which is a plus for doing cabinet work. Other than that, they're functionally equivalent. The Woodpeck costs more, but once you add the extras to TSO like both arms and the extra flip stops, they're pretty close.

The TSO does have the ability to use the flip stop when doing square cuts with a GRS, but that wasn't enough to push me over the edge and choose it.

If you like what you see with the TSO features, go for it. It's a really nice setup.

The only thing I wish I had done differently was to get the GRS 16 PE instead of the GRS 16. It offers a little more flexibility in some situations.

Like I said earlier, I'm going to post some photos to illustrate how Woodpeck and Festool work and why, for me, having both was necessary if I wanted to move to a track saw-only workflow.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

A couple more quickies. Since all of my markings for the layouts get removed when I run them through the planer, and since these drawer faces are grain matched, I need to be sure I know which bank of drawers each goes with, and which face of the board should show.

To do that, I use a punch set to mark on the bottom edge of each drawer front. Anywhere else would get planed off, or would be visible. Here "2" is the cabinet unit number. I make a makeshift arrow to point to the face that'll be out.










Finally it's time to drill for the pulls. This guy by True Position Tools is awesome. You can screw the pulls themselves direcly to it and easily center everything. Speaking of center, when I have a bank of drawers, usually the top one is the shallow one. I'll center the pull vertically on it. For deeper drawers, I don't center the pulls up and down, I use a four sevenths ratio so the pull is slightly above center. I like the look. It's sort of golden ratio-ish. The one time you would want to center them is on a frame and panel drawer front, and I never build those.


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

I always put my marks on the end of the boards. Building a box, I start at one corner label each matching corners with the letter "a" and continue with each corner. Yes, a arrow helps with the orientation.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I always put my marks on the end of the boards. Building a box, I start at one corner label each matching corners with the letter "a" and continue with each corner. Yes, a arrow helps with the orientation.
> 
> - Eric


+1. If I don't mark everything, I'm guaranteed to screw up. Well, I guess I screw up sometimes anyway, but at least I tried


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

Same here, cutting joints, I lay all of them out and mark the waste. All before I even start cutting.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

thats a sweet drilling jig rich.the one i showed i use is about 30 years old,works great.i dont think there made anymore.last time i saw one they were about 150 bucks.the true precision is the mercedes of jigs thats for sure,and costs about the same.anyone doing a lot of cabinets it would be worth every penny.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> thats a sweet drilling jig rich.the one i showed i use is about 30 years old,works great.i dont think there made anymore.last time i saw one they were about 150 bucks.the true precision is the mercedes of jigs thats for sure,and costs about the same.anyone doing a lot of cabinets it would be worth every penny.
> 
> - pottz


I lucked into that on eBay. It's the deluxe kit with the extension bar and 32mm drilling jigs. At the time it retailed for $299 and I saw that one listed for $249 with a "make an offer" button. I offered $186.75 as a first offer (25% less) and they took it. I was fully expecting them to negotiate.

When it arrived it still had the retail cardboard sleeve on it and was sealed in plastic. Brand new. More than likely it was stolen from somewhere.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> thats a sweet drilling jig rich.the one i showed i use is about 30 years old,works great.i dont think there made anymore.last time i saw one they were about 150 bucks.the true precision is the mercedes of jigs thats for sure,and costs about the same.anyone doing a lot of cabinets it would be worth every penny.
> 
> - pottz
> 
> ...


you scored on that.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Rich this is an interesting forum
> 
> - Peteybadboy


Thanks for dropping by, Petey. Your input will be valuable.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Here's something I am starting to understand. Bear with me as I try to describe it. I bought a repair jig for band saw blade breaks a couple of years ago. It works beautifully and the repairs have never failed.

But, the blades have subsequently broken within a couple of months of use in other locations on the blade. It took me a while to wrap my head around it, but the latest break made it clear what's going on.

I have a Rikon 10-326. The housing is rectangular, and when a blade breaks, it doesn't just snap, it's a pretty catastrophic event. Since that housing has corners, the blade gets bent as it flies into the inside of the housing. I realized it when my $200 Starrett carbide-tipped blade failed for the second time.

It had run flawlessly for two years. Best blade I've ever owned. But it broke a few months ago and I repaired it. A few days ago, it broke again. When I pulled it out of the band saw, I noticed there were bends. It was "C" shaped.

On further inspection, I realized that each of those bends had a barely visible fracture starting. AHA! I went ahead and separated the blade at those fracture points, and the result was three short strips and one long one. Kinda resembles the shape of the band saw housing, doesn't it?

So here's the blade. One of these days when I get in the mood, I'll do all the repairs and see how it goes from there. In the meantime, when breaks do occur, I'll be more diligent about inspecting what's left of the blade.

Actually, it's more accurate to say that in the meantime, I'm using a $25 blade since I'm tired of pumping hundreds of dollars into carbide blades that fail.










And, if anyone is curious, here's the jig. I bought it from Lee Valley. The repair process involves grinding each side of the break at a shallow angle to produce a scarf joint. Then you apply flux and lock it in the jig, which ensures it's straight. A strip of silver solder is inserted in the joint and heated with a propane torch. There's a little cleanup to do. I use a rotary tool with a sanding sleeve.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

Is that jig is as simple as it looks or theres more to it?


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

Curious Rich, what's your wheel diameter and how thick is the blade metal?

I've never broken a blade (fingers crossed!), but the post event inspection certainly will include looking for incidental damage 8^)


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Is that jig is as simple as it looks or theres more to it?
> 
> - corelz125


It really is super easy. You gring a roughly 15º angle on the ends to be repaired. That can be done on a grinding wheel, belt sander, whatever you have that will grind a flat face. The blade is then clamped in the jig with the beveled ends overlapping to form a scarf joint. You apply flux, and lay a ribbon of silver solder in the joint and torch it. I did find high heat is required. I tried butane on a whim and it didn't solder them. There's a bit of touch up that I use a rotary tool with a sanding sleeve for.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Curious Rich, what s your wheel diameter and how thick is the blade metal?
> 
> I ve never broken a blade (fingers crossed!), but the post event inspection certainly will include looking for incidental damage 8^)
> 
> - splintergroup


It's a 14" band saw and that Starrett blade is 0.035.

When you get right down to it, I've only broken two blades. All of the other breaks I'm sure were due to what I wrote above.

The first blade was likely over tensioned. I had just bought the saw and was still getting it set up. This Starrett lasted me over two years of daily use. The break was likely do to abuse. I'd been using it to cut kindling out of mesquite logs for the fireplace. As in hundreds of them. The logs are round and I was free handing the cut and I know I twisted that blade around a lot.

I guess what I've learned is to examine the blade carefully if it does break and not waste my time if it has multiple bends.

I'm also done pouring hundreds into blades. I have two Laguna ReSaw King blades. I use one for re-sawing when I want a flawless cut, but otherwise, I'm just going to stick with the Starrett steel blades for general cutting.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

i bought one of those repair kits probably 15 years ago and repaired one blade with it.yeah the kit is basic like rich shows,just a simple clamp.cant remember how well it held up though,only one of two blades ive had break.last one was about 2 months ago,it was dull and i abused it too.it was a 1/4" blade and not worth even trying to fix.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

Thanks Rich!

Back in 2003 I was deciding on a saw for resawing and wanted to use carbide blades. The only common blade available at that time was the resaw king at 0.035 thick.

A number of people with the 16" saws were reporting fatigue cracking and according to the blade mfg. they recommended 18" or larger saws. Of course the blade material/hardness is also as much a factor as the thickness.

Not wanting to cash out an additional $1k, I went with the 16" saw and had been using the quick-to-dull woodslicers.

Finally (in the past few years) the RK blade has been available in 0.024" thickness so I got one and no issues after a lot of use. I still have the nagging in the back of the head and inspect the blade every so often.

So if you get a reasonable life on a 14" with a 0.035" blade, I should be well enough "safe" (investment wise 8^)


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

I think my RKs are 0.025. Tension is critical with them. They have deep gullets and too much tension will cause it to fail.

The strain on the metal is highest in the gullet. I remember that much from my strength of materials class decades ago. It's also narrowest there. That was the first blade I broke and I'm sure it was over tensioned. It also broke twice more probably due to what I wrote about originally.

Fortunately, it was the blade I was using when I re-sawed this piece of mesquite, which unknown to me had pebbles down a wormhole that I had filled with epoxy. Stripped most of the teeth right off. It also damaged a few cutters on my Shelix head because the RK went right through those pebbles and I didn't look at the board before I planed it. Live and learn.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

It looks like 2 plates with a few screws in it and a notch. Pretty simple to make. I don't break bandsaw blades since my band saw sucks.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> It looks like 2 plates with a few screws in it and a notch. Pretty simple to make. I don t break bandsaw blades since my band saw sucks.
> 
> - corelz125


Yep. It's very simple, and pretty inexpensive. The only important things are to keep the blade perfectly straight and to be able to stand up to the heat of the torch.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> I think my RKs are 0.025. Tension is critical with them. They have deep gullets and too much tension will cause it to fail.
> 
> The strain on the metal is highest in the gullet. I remember that much from my strength of materials class decades ago. It s also narrowest there. That was the first blade I broke and I m sure it was over tensioned. It also broke twice more probably due to what I wrote about originally.
> 
> ...


OUCHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

Since you all are talking about bandsaws, a question for you, if´n you dont mind:

I just ordered new tires for my crappy tabletop bandsaw, the Blue Max brand - so, is it best if these are glued to the wheels? And, if so, with what glue?

Any "tricks" for getting the tires on?


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

If the tires are sized correctly and are good quality, glue should not be needed. The last set of tires I put on were so tight that I had a hard time getting them on (might not be an issue with bench top saw). What finally worked is to chuck a short dowel in a drill and use the drill's power to leverage it on while using some spring clamps to hold them in place at a couple of places. I used my end vise to hold the wheel to free up my hands. The drill actually made it pretty easy.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Any "tricks" for getting the tires on?
> 
> - wildwoodbybrianjohns


+1 on no glue.

Nathan has an interesting technique that I've never heard of, but sounds like it would do the job. I've always told people to warm the tires in hot water and use lots of spring clamps to keep it in place as you go. One of those thin, flat pry bars does a nice job of helping stretch it onto the wheel.


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## 987Ron (Apr 9, 2020)

Recently changed tires on a 10" old Delta. The method that worked for me"

Easier with wheel off saw, mine was as was doing other maintenance work.

Clamp tire to wheel at the "top" clamp tire at the "bottom" i.e. 180 degrees with equal amounts on each side. 
Stretch one side into place then the other side. Make sure and adjust the tire to fit the space on the wheel if necessary. Mine has a slight ridge on each side of the wheel with the tire sitting between. Was the method prescribed by the tire manufacturer.


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

Thank ya kindly, gents!


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

> Any "tricks" for getting the tires on?
> 
> - wildwoodbybrianjohns
> 
> ...


I eventually got one of them on using the hot water and lots of spring clamps method but after 30 minutes of trying on the second one, I finally decided to search YouTube for other tricks and found the one using a drill. In 30 seconds I was done. Well, 60 seconds anyway. The first dowel was too skinny and broke.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

Rich, I have often wondered if silver soldering bandsaw blades would work but never actually tried it. I rarely actually break a blade, I usually just wear them out and toss them. But I have broken a couple that had life left in them and I always have silver solder on hand. So next time I break a decent blade, I'll know to give it a go 

Hot water and a prybar is how I got new tires on my bandsaw the one time I had to do it. I do recall that it wasn't a quick fight though and there were probably a few choice words muttered…


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Hot water and a prybar is how I got new tires on my bandsaw the one time I had to do it. I do recall that it wasn t a quick fight though and there were probably a few choice words muttered…
> 
> - HokieKen


I've only had to do it once as well. It was mid-summer, and the perspiration was stinging my eyes. Very unpleasant task.

My sincere hope is that I die before I have to do it again.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

The hot water trick worked for me as well.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

I'm telling you, the drill and dowel trick makes it pretty dang easy. No swearing required. I think that it was winter when I changed them which made it even harder because the tire did not stay warm long enough to get them on the traditional way.

I have only done it once as well because I was too lazy to switch out the dull blade that over heated and ruined my tires. After stopping the cut, the blade was embedded and fused to the tire. Lesson learned. It was amazing how quiet the saw was with new tires and a fresh blade


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I m telling you, the drill and dowel trick makes it pretty dang easy. No swearing required.
> 
> - Lazyman


I will definitely give that a try if I have to do it again.


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## JohnMcClure (Aug 24, 2016)

This is a really nice thread, Rich. Posting here just to add it to my watchlist.
I can't even remember "how I work in the shop", because I so rarely do so these days. My LJ projects taper off right after I made a bunch of beds for a bunch of kids… LOL!

One tip I will contribute is: Paper Dolls (templates) for hole layouts. Works on wood, metal, whatever. Fold two edges of the sheet to register against the workpiece, the creases will stay permanently; then centerpunch on the marks for your hole locations. After many, many uses the paper will wear out, but for less than 20 identical pieces it's faster and easier than a wooden template; and for more than 2 identical layouts, easier than measuring/marking everything separately.
I make templates like this in Autocad and print 1:1, but hand-drawn templates work just as well and are equally as repeatable as printed ones.


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

I will give your method a try, Nathan. What size dowel you use?


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I will give your method a try, Nathan. What size dowel you use?
> 
> - wildwoodbybrianjohns


I was wondering that too.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> This is a really nice thread, Rich. Posting here just to add it to my watchlist.
> 
> - JohnMcClure


Glad you're here, John. I think it's going well. I couldn't ask for a better bunch of guys. It's turning into a veritable woodworking brain trust.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

yeah it's going real well rich.bye the way this morning i had a jimmy dean breakfast bowl with my pills and…........just kidding bud,we sure dont need or want that here ;-))


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

Keep it going Rich.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> yeah it s going real well rich.bye the way this morning i had a jimmy dean breakfast bowl with my pills and…........just kidding bud,we sure dont need or want that here ;-))
> 
> - pottz


I did get a chuckle from that.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Keep it going Rich.
> 
> - Eric


Will do, Eric. Everyone seems pleased so far, which is what I hoped for.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> yeah it s going real well rich.bye the way this morning i had a jimmy dean breakfast bowl with my pills and…........just kidding bud,we sure dont need or want that here ;-))
> 
> - pottz
> 
> ...


yeah,it put a chill up my spine typing it !!!!!!


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

Pottz, you'll be there one day…..


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> Pottz, you ll be there one day…..
> 
> - Eric


what do you mean someday,that was today…..........lol ! just sayin, nobody wants or needs to hear about it !


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

I hear ya. More about the projects we build.

I finished sanding out the next set of Marking Knifes and got a coat of Danish Oil on them tonight. Then started milling up the blanks for some chisels that I have, ordered without the handles. Started with 8/4 Hard Maple and I have a piece of 4/4 Walnut that I plan on using as a ring on the striking end.








Took a few minutes to setup for horizontal boring, need to drill holes in the Walnut before cutting the squares out. They will be attached to a tenon on the handle.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> I hear ya. More about the projects we build.
> 
> I finished sanding out the next set of Marking Knifes and got a coat of Danish Oil on them tonight. Then started milling up the blanks for some chisels that I have, ordered without the handles. Started with 8/4 Hard Maple and I have a piece of 4/4 Walnut that I plan on using as a ring on the striking end.
> 
> ...


cant wait to see how this comes out.


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

I'll have to see how much shop time I can get over the weekend. Yard work if it's dry. And the Sweetie want to go to dinner. Along with a few errands.









Basic design, may need a few adjuments, I'll see.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> I ll have to see how much shop time I can get over the weekend. Yard work if it s dry. And the Sweetie want to go to dinner. Along with a few errands.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


blow off the yard work,tell sweetie your not felling well for dinner which will also kill the errands ! then you pretend to take a nap to rest and slip out to the shop.just dont run any noisey machines to give it away.do i have to do all the thinking here ;-))


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

> I will give your method a try, Nathan. What size dowel you use?
> 
> - wildwoodbybrianjohns
> 
> ...


I think that it was a 3/8" which is the largest my drill chuck can handle. I tried to find the YouTube video again but haven't yet.

EDIT: I think this is the video where I got the idea. I already had my wheels off so I didn't do it on with wheel on. I don't think that I used the washer and didn't use the string instead of the clamps but you can see how easy it is.


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

Wish I could, but the grass, (weeds) are getting a bit tall. As for dinner, not going to pass up a good steak dinner. Besides I have mornings when she sleeps in.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

> I will give your method a try, Nathan. What size dowel you use?
> 
> - wildwoodbybrianjohns
> 
> ...


Using a mechanical advantage to make it a simple job.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

Eric you could pay a guy to do the grass and weeds. Then have more free time to get into the shop


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I hear ya. More about the projects we build.
> 
> - Eric
> 
> ...


Ditto.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

I'm wondering if Corelz has any *clean* woodworking jokes. I honestly can't think of any. Although this did make me smile.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

I ba e a hard time finding clean jokes. Throw a theme in the mix is a tough order. That chair reminds me of Homer Sipsons spice rack.


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

See folks, this is how brawls begin on cruiseships. Lol.


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

Corelz, I'm cheap at times on certain things, besides if I pay a lawn boy (providing I could find one) it would take funds from my shop materials and new needed tools.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

I see the thread has attracted its first spammer. Quite a milestone.

I've flagged it, and you all are encouraged to flag it as well. However, please do not quote it in the comments. Hopefully it will be removed shortly.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> I see the thread has attracted its first spammer. Quite a milestone.
> 
> I ve flagged it, and you all are encouraged to flag it as well. However, please do not quote it in the comments. Hopefully it will be removed shortly.
> 
> - Rich


seems youve rubbed the duck the wrong way ?


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

Re-sawed some 24" x 7" red oak for some book matched panels (doors on a storage cabinet I'm building)

Unfortunately internal wood stresses caused the panels to bow.

(bandsaw cut is down the center if these two halves)









These are at 3/8" thick, target is about 1/4". The frames will help straighten them out, but I'd rather have the bow removed. I usually do this with shimming the boards on a sled for my drum sander, but the bow is too severe to eliminate this way.

So, some noodle scratching told me to place the panels back-to-back, insert a spacer between, and clamp the ends.
Basically over-correct the bend.

It works for metal, wood should be similar right? 8^)










After a few days, unclamped and absolutely no improvement.

Repeat the clamping and spray some water on the outsides.

Few days later, no change.

Ok, time is running out. I break out the heat gun and get them toasty warm while in the clamps.

Let cool, unclamp:

*Huzzah!*


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

Interesting fix you have there.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> Interesting fix you have there.
> 
> - controlfreak


+1 never would have thought of that !


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

Those thin boards are always troublesome. Good method to straighten them out.


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

Have to keep that in mind, neat idea.


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## Peteybadboy (Jan 23, 2013)

Splint that is amazing. Is it staying flat?


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

For panels that have warped I usually lay them on the lawn in the sun with the concave side down for a few minutes. The heat dries out the top a little and the lawn gives up a little moisture to the bottom, equalizing the moisture and flattening it out. This time of year I would do it in the morning before it gets too hot and keep an eye on it because it works pretty fast and it could warp the other direction if you leave it too long. Your method may work better on narrow boards but the sunny lawn method has worked very well for wider glue ups. As long as it is stored after that so that air can circulate on both sides, they usually stay flat, in my experience.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

> Splint that is amazing. Is it staying flat?
> 
> - Peteybadboy


So far, only been about 24 hours, but I think they'll hold. I'm guessing that since people bend wood with steam and in some cases, heat (guitar parts), there is some "science" behind it all.

Never thought I'd need to do it, but glad I learned about heat bending (on LJ's 8^) and it couldn't get much worse!


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

> For panels that have warped I usually lay them on the lawn in the sun with the concave side down for a few minutes. The heat dries out the top a little and the lawn gives up a little moisture to the bottom, equalizing the moisture and flattening it out. This time of year I would do it in the morning before it gets too hot and keep an eye on it because it works pretty fast and it could warp the other direction if you leave it too long. Your method may work better on narrow boards but the sunny lawn method has worked very well for wider glue ups. As long as it is stored after that so that air can circulate on both sides, they usually stay flat, in my experience.
> 
> - Lazyman


Nathan, that was my first thought after the first clamping didn't do anything.

The water I sprayed on the concave sides was meant to simulate what you mention, wet one side.

They warped (cupped) and then flattened again after drying, but no effect on the bow over their length.
Of course this attempt had no extra heat applied.

I have a second set that I cut which bowed even worse. I'll have to give the sunny side up/concave side down a test to see if the moisture/solar heating method does the job


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

I don't know if this tip has been submitted before; When adjusting a blade height in a table saw for a dado cut, measure the height while cranking the blade UP, never down. When cranking UP, you are eliminating the gear backlash.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

I'm going to remember that one Splinter. That's a great fix.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I don t know if this tip has been submitted before; When adjusting a blade height in a table saw for a dado cut, measure the height while cranking the blade UP, never down. When cranking UP, you are eliminating the gear backlash.
> 
> - MrRon


+1


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> I don t know if this tip has been submitted before; When adjusting a blade height in a table saw for a dado cut, measure the height while cranking the blade UP, never down. When cranking UP, you are eliminating the gear backlash.
> 
> - MrRon
> 
> ...


+2 when ever i do lower the blades i always raise back up.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Water with reverse bending will work sometimes. Water with heat and reverse bending will work most of the time, sometimes too well. Sneaking up on it can be a bit safer but it's time consuming, especially if a couple piece of stock are holding up the whole project from moving forward.


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

Cylinders turned for the chisel handles. Now I can get down to business of shapping them.









Started a blog for those interested in reading more. 
https://www.lumberjocks.com/EricFai/blog/series/23673


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Started a blog for those interested in reading more.
> https://www.lumberjocks.com/EricFai/blog/series/23673
> 
> - Eric


I'll be following along.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> Started a blog for those interested in reading more.
> https://www.lumberjocks.com/EricFai/blog/series/23673
> 
> - Eric
> ...


it's gonna get better ? watch.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I ll be following along.
> 
> - Rich
> 
> ...


Like I said on Eric's thread, I'm not a turner. I know some bits and pieces, but I'm looking forward to seeing it done from start to finish.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> I ll be following along.
> 
> - Rich
> 
> ...


oh it's gonna be spectacular ;-))


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> oh it s gonna be spectacular ;-))
> 
> - pottz


It sounds like you know something I don't. I can't wait to see.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> yeah it s going real well rich.bye the way this morning i had a jimmy dean breakfast bowl with my pills and…........just kidding bud,we sure dont need or want that here ;-))
> 
> - pottz
> 
> ...


At least you didn't mention any tuck-ins.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> yeah it s going real well rich.bye the way this morning i had a jimmy dean breakfast bowl with my pills and…........just kidding bud,we sure dont need or want that here ;-))
> 
> - pottz
> 
> ...


dont go there man,ill hunt you down and give you a tuck down you'll never forget !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;-))


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> oh it s gonna be spectacular ;-))
> 
> - pottz
> 
> ...


stand bye !


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

The one guy i woukd like to watch turn is Jim Jakosh. Hes like a magician with a lathe.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> The one guy i woukd like to watch turn is Jim Jakosh. Hes like a magician with a lathe.
> 
> - corelz125


ditto man !!!!


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

This goes back a few years, but there was a LJ called AZWoody who hosted an event at his place in western AZ. It sounded big. I wish I could have made it. But, there was talk of a LJ from here in Tucson who stole the show on the lathe.

He's also an inventor, and a couple of his products are on sale occasionally at the Woodcraft store here.

I wish I could think of his username.

Update: His name is Jerry, but his LJ name is Nubsnstubs.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> This goes back a few years, but there was a LJ called AZWoody who hosted an event at his place in western AZ. It sounded big. I wish I could have made it. But, there was talk of a LJ from here in Tucson who stole the show on the lathe.
> 
> He s also an inventor, and a couple of his products are on sale occasionally at the Woodcraft store here.
> 
> ...


yeah he's still here and posting.great guy !


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

I've met Jerry Rich. He's a pretty cool guy. You really should reach out and meet him.
Say hi for me if you do.


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

Thank Rich. This is going to turn out to be an interesting project. Already a couple of changes, but it will have the same result. Also thinking about a box or stand to house them in.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Progress pic for the vanity. I still have to do the toe kick and scribe molding, but the drawer fronts are attached (using the method pottz already knew), and the doors mounted.

One thing you'll notice is that the sink is not centered in the cabinet. It was a design choice. We wanted maximum storage, and to center it the cabinet would have been 42 inches wide. Since the space is 72 inches, that would have meant one bank of wide drawers, or two banks that would have been too narrow. It really ate at me as I modeled it using OnShape, but now that it's installed, I'm fine with it.

The top is leopard wood that I hit with a washcoat of 1/2 lb cut shellac followed by GF java gel stain and four coats of Waterlox. It's really hard to photograph, but looks great. Some of the guys who were working on the remodel asked for cutoffs since they'd never seen anything like it.


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## Knockonit (Nov 5, 2017)

> This goes back a few years, but there was a LJ called AZWoody who hosted an event at his place in western AZ. It sounded big. I wish I could have made it. But, there was talk of a LJ from here in Tucson who stole the show on the lathe.
> 
> He s also an inventor, and a couple of his products are on sale occasionally at the Woodcraft store here.
> 
> ...


i was there along with a couple other folks from here, had a hoot of a time, and since have seen azwoody a few times, he opened a slab store in adjacent town, but its been a year or more since i've gone to Roll Az. its in the stars to go in fall, and pick up some goods, he had a great bbq and Jerry did some turning on some palo verde and other stuff, i gave away a gaggle of olive pcs for turning, good times for sure, 
Rj in az


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

Looking good, Rich. But that offset sink does catch the eye. Anyway, with the mirrors and lighting it is all harmonious. Sure would like to see a closeup of that top!


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## 987Ron (Apr 9, 2020)

Good work as usual. Like the offset sink. Agree on seeing the top.


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

Rich, vanity lo9ks great. No problem with an offset sink, give you more counter to the one side. Yes, would like to see the top.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Rich, can you share a link to the OnShape design of the vanity? I've been slowly learning OnShape. I have really only used it for 3D printing and CNC so far and I would like to see a woodworking example.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

vanity looks damn good to me,no reason it always needs to be centered !


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## 1thumb (Jun 30, 2012)

Need a faux sink on the right for balance


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

I prefer off center, no need to be bilaterally symmetrical.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Looking good, Rich. But that offset sink does catch the eye. Anyway, with the mirrors and lighting it is all harmonious. Sure would like to see a closeup of that top!
> 
> - wildwoodbybrianjohns


That's exactly the sort of honesty I want here.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

OK, the top. This doesn't really do it justice, but is the best I can do in that space.


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

I know something about leopard wood. Pricey! I have some in stock, take it out on occasion to look at it, kinda like the gold bars I had - before the boating accident. Lol.


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

Correct, no justice on the photo. Leppordwood has some amazing grain patterns.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

> This goes back a few years, but there was a LJ called AZWoody who hosted an event at his place in western AZ. It sounded big. I wish I could have made it. But, there was talk of a LJ from here in Tucson who stole the show on the lathe.
> 
> He s also an inventor, and a couple of his products are on sale occasionally at the Woodcraft store here.
> 
> ...


Charles (AZWoody) is running a saw mill and lumber store full-time now. I've gotten a lot of turning stock from him and he has the nicest pieces of Mesquite and Desert Ironwood I've laid eyes on. His store is a good source to add to your list for small pieces of really nice wood, especially for turning stock. And if you happen to be near Tacna, AZ you can go in person and get big pieces.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

The flash exposes some of the features of the grain, but totally screws up the color. I think the only solution is to do a tour for everyone, so grab a flight to Tucson and PM me when you get here.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> The flash exposes some of the features of the grain, but totally screws up the color. I think the only solution is to do a tour for everyone, so grab a flight to Tucson and PM me when you get here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


looks pretty good but yeah im sure it's amazing in person.ive worked with it before,ive only got a little bit left.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

I think I mentioned this here a while back. It's been announced so I can finally share this new SawStop entry:










I don't see it on the SawStop site yet, so the link and image come from ToolGuyd.

I'll leave it at that. It's not anything I'll be in the market for. At $899, it's steep for a compact.

Thoughts?


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

There are a couple things I see I don't like. The knob for the rack and pinion looks pretty cheap and the fence reminds me of the same one I had on my DeWalt DWE7491RS. I never did like the fence on the DeWalt. I feel they cheaped out on the gauge of aluminum extrusion and there was deflection in the fence itself. I expect higher quality from Saw Stop so my worries probably aren't warranted. I took a look at the link and the other images they have and the dust collection looks like it could work quite well for a compact saw.

I wouldn't buy this for a hobby shop because of the price but if I was a trim/finish carpenter and fed my family with my tools/hands I'd definitely be interested.


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

rack and pinion fence - good
riving knife - great
space for push stick in the fence - good
huge safety-stop button - good
table extensions possibly? - good
10" blade - good
plasticky knobs - not good

I could see this getting beat up pretty quick as a jobsite saw.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

The vanity - looks great, hope the leopard wood top holds up. Nothing wrong with the offset sink, but why make the lighting and mirrors symmetrical? To my eye either the single mirror over the sink, with only 2 symmetrical lights, or a large one that covers the wall. Could use a different shaped mirror and lighting on the right, 2 separate areas in effect.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> The vanity - looks great, hope the leopard wood top holds up. Nothing wrong with the offset sink, but why make the lighting and mirrors symmetrical? To my eye either the single mirror over the sink, with only 2 symmetrical lights, or a large one that covers the wall. Could use a different shaped mirror and lighting on the right, 2 separate areas in effect.
> 
> - OSU55


Shoot me your phone number and I'll have my wife give you a call so you can explain that to her 

In other words, I just build 'em. Frankly, if I had done the overall layout, I would have done a few things differently, but you know the old saying.

In fact, if I were to be totally honest, I'd have said screw the remodel expense and I'll go buy some tools. After all, it's not like you entertain in there (at least we don't), so as long as there's running water and a toilet, I've got all I need. She feels differently however.


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## Knockonit (Nov 5, 2017)

lol, funny how that works, we had to update the master from the turquoise shower and toilet ect. i was just planning on a new shower base, and surrounds , build a vanity ect. well now, the call went out and her sisters flew in, a couple times, as did a couple of the kids, and well now, we own the "taj Mahal'' of Arizona, jeebus h christy, i coulda made the shop about 400 sq ft larger with what was spent on the dang room. 
but as noted, happy wife, happy life.
looks good, i'm a fan of hit and run, so no living in the boudwah
rj in az


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Wow. A shower and toilet made out of turquoise. That IS extravagant.


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

Hey all that was in style back in the 70's so whats wrong with that.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

I see Milwaukee is coming out with a M18 Fuel track saw.

https://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-m18-fuel-track-saw-pipeline-2022/


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

weve been selling a lot of the M18 tools lately,the contractors seem to be switching from makita and dewalt.the tools are very heavy duty compared to other brands.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

> Shoot me your phone number and I ll have my wife give you a call so you can explain that to her
> 
> In other words, I just build em. Frankly, if I had done the overall layout, I would have done a few things differently, but you know the old saying.
> 
> ...


Sorry, didnt know it was a wife project. I'm the same - get more tools! Doubt I'd have any more luck convincing your wife, I dont do any better with mine.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

I just got back from Bisbee, AZ. Bisbee was a mining town from 1870 to around 1975. Today, it's full of artsy types, AKA hippies.

Luckily, the city hasn't changed much over the years, especially downtown. Here's a view down Main Street:










I stayed at the Copper Queen built by the Copper Queen Mining Company. Work began in 1900 and was completed in 1902. It's remained unchanged other than the addition of private restrooms in each room. Back when it was built, there would have been one or two per floor that everyone shared. Adding the private restrooms reduced the number of rooms from 73 to 48.

Much of the period furniture still remains, and QSWO is everywhere, including the structure itself.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

street seems kinda empty.not even a car.that woodwork is beautiful.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> street seems kinda empty.not even a car.that woodwork is beautiful.
> 
> - pottz


I waited until there were no cars. It took a while. There's not a ton of traffic, but it's fairly steady. That was taken at 5pm. It was pretty deserted as far as people go. Lots of shops close early, even on Saturday. That's hippies for you.

However, I notice more stores with sporadic hours in general these days. They can't get people to work. When I was in Utah in June, I stayed in Kanab. There were only a couple of restaurants open for breakfast, and not many more than that for lunch. No workers.

Twice I walked up to a storefront with the Open sign on, only to find the door locked.


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## Knockonit (Nov 5, 2017)

Its a 111 today in Phoenix, probably been in the early 100s i bisbee, and its way past the tourist time frame, there will be the die hards, but come winter, oh boy
the copper queen is beautiful, 
there is also the monte some thing in flagstaf that used to have a central bath per floor, its right downtown by railroad, some neat structure there also
nice pics thanks for posting. 
rj in az


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

Rich, I almost mistook that photo for Deadwood, SD. It's really quite similar.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Rich, I almost mistook that photo for Deadwood, SD. It s really quite similar.
> 
> - BurlyBob


They're from the same era, so I'm not surprised, Bob. Bisbee is not at all different from many other Arizona mining towns I've passed through. It has probably survived better since it re-invented itself. Places like Globe, San Manuel, Winkelman, Mammoth and many others are broken down remnants of their past.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Vanity is complete. I'll post a bit about how I manage grain later.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

That's really nice looking.


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

A house project very well done. Looks amazing.


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## Peteybadboy (Jan 23, 2013)

Rich nice work!

Love the top.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

Sweet! Has a classic style + enough storage for a clan of six (or 1 wife 8^)


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## 1thumb (Jun 30, 2012)

Looks great! Hard to tell you, did you scribe to walls or scribe mold to walls?


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Thank you everyone for the kind words. Splinter, it's already filled…lol. 1thumb, it's scribe molding.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

This won't come as a surprise to anyone who has worked with them, but Kreg customer service is as good as it gets. I picked up a K5 for free that had been returned to a store as defective. The only thing wrong with it is it's missing the ratchet plate that sets the stop for board thickness.

I emailed Kreg this morning and a few hours later I got a reply that the part was in the mail.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> This won t come as a surprise to anyone who has worked with them, but Kreg customer service is as good as it gets. I picked up a K5 for free that had been returned to a store as defective. The only thing wrong with it is it s missing the ratchet plate that sets the stop for board thickness.
> 
> I emailed Kreg this morning and a few hours later I got a reply that the part was in the mail.
> 
> - Rich


i wonder though if the store advised them to do that or did they just refund their money. and usually the manufacturer will just credit the store and say field destroy.which i can tell you doesn't happen most of the time.i can only tell you how much free stuff ive gotten over the years.guy brought in a small hitachi grinder said it wouldn't work.so i took it home opened it up and the factory just didn't connect the slide lever to the switch properly.took no parts and 15 minutes and ive still got and use it.


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

> This won t come as a surprise to anyone who has worked with them, but Kreg customer service is as good as it gets. I picked up a K5 for free that had
> 
> i wonder though if the store advised them to do that or did they just refund their money. and usually the manufacturer will just credit the store and say field destroy.which i can tell you doesn t happen most of the time.i can only tell you how much free stuff ive gotten over the years.guy brought in a small hitachi grinder said it wouldn t work.so i took it home opened it up and the factory just didn t connect the slide lever to the switch properly.took no parts and 15 minutes and ive still got and use it.
> 
> - pottz


I guess I've never been kucky or, alert enough to get deals like that. That OK, though. I'm not smart enought to diagnose and fix the problem, anyway.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Well, Kreg outdid themselves. I got a FedEx shipment notice of a package coming from Kreg and saw that it was large and over six lbs. Kind of big and heavy for a little piece of metal.

Sure enough, it came today and this was inside. They sent me a whole new jig!


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

Can't beat that, always good to receive more than expected.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

now thats a company that knows how to treat it's customers.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> now thats a company that knows how to treat it s customers.
> 
> - pottz


I know. I texted a photo to my buddy who owns Tucson Woodcraft and he was blown away.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

This is the result of almost two years of back-and-forth thinking about how to best set up for my move towards a track saw focused shop.

Originally, I figured two MFT/3 tables, one with the guides, and one plain. That's a great setup-period. With it and a TS 55, you can make any cut.

Then the STM 1800 came along. It's way overpriced, but has some great features that I thought could work for me. It can be folded down to around 10×40 inches when it needs to be out of the way. It can easily be opened out to support a 48×48 worktop. When you add the extension arms it can support a 48×96 top.

So, I went with that.

Here it is right out of the box (with some assembly).










And with all the attachments.










For this setup, I took that gnarly, chewed up table top you've grown tired of looking at in my photos and flipped it over. It's the one I did using the Shaper Origin that matches the 20mm x 96mm pattern on the MFT/3.

I added another 2×4 piece of MDF, and used the domino to align the two.










This will be my new work surface for now. When it's time to get back to the new front entry door, I'll be using the STM 1800, but without the MDF panels.

I'll post those photos when I get there.


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## Peteybadboy (Jan 23, 2013)

That is cool Rich,

I looked at the festool demo video when It came out.

I decided on a TS centric shop.

Thanks for posting


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> That is cool Rich,
> 
> I looked at the festool demo video when It came out.
> 
> ...


Thanks Petey. Your work is beautiful. I'm just kind of off in my own little universe on this. We'll see where it ends up.

P.S. I haven't sold my table saw yet


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

For all the Festool Fans out there, there's some big news coming down the pike. Stay tuned.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

Is that news that the Shaper Origin price is dropping by 75%? A fella can dream, right? ;-)


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## 987Ron (Apr 9, 2020)

A square cutting domino?


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

tools that create no dust ?


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

Moving to China?


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

A robot to move the SO around so you can walk away. Watch out CNC manufacturers.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Dang, you guys are good. Looks like everyone got the same memo.

I can share today that the HK 55 carpentry saw is returning. Additionally, the STM 1800 I posted about above is going to become a permanent part of their product line. It was originally released as a limited-time offering, but has been successful enough for them to keep it. However, its already high price tag is going to go up Sept 1st to $1199.

There's more news to share, but I can't do so until Sept 6th.


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## Sark (May 31, 2017)

True confession here: I've never cut a dovetail. Never made a dovetailed joint. I alternate between thinking that dovetails are an incredibly beautiful technique to thinking that they are a complete waste of time. Dovetailed drawers are something you buy, not make. For my own cabinetry, I find that glue, pin-nails and screws make a very sturdy drawer or box.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

dont really care for dovetails,i like the look of a box joint much more.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> True confession here: I've never cut a dovetail. Never made a dovetailed joint. I alternate between thinking that dovetails are an incredibly beautiful technique to thinking that they are a complete waste of time. Dovetailed drawers are something you buy, not make. For my own cabinetry, I find that glue, pin-nails and screws make a very sturdy drawer or box.
> 
> - Sark


These days with a Porter Cable 4210 jig you can make dovetailed drawer boxes in a fraction of the time it takes for pretty much any other method. The interesting thing about doing half blind dovetails on a jig is that the only variable for joint tightness is the bit depth, regardless of stock thickness, and that can be made repeatable in a number of ways. I can get my router ready in the time it takes to install the bit, setting the depth takes no time at all.

The only downside to a fixed spacing jig like the PC is that, in order to maintain a customary half-pin top and bottom on the joint, you are limited to certain dimensions. You can't make a joint with 6" wide stock and have those half pins. I've seen factory joints where they use dovetail machines that cut the entire joint in one step, and then cut the stock to whatever width needed even if it means cutting a partial tail. The fact is, 99% of people won't even notice.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

thats a great jig especially for those that dont have the skill or in my case the time to do hand cut ones. the problem is though you cant make your dovetails fit the size you want as with hand cut ones.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> thats a great jig especially for those that dont have the skill or in my case the time to do hand cut ones. the problem is though you cant make your dovetails fit the size you want as with hand cut ones.
> 
> - pottz


That's why narrow pins have become so popular among hand toolers. No jig can do that, so it's a sign of hand cut dovetails.

I sure don't blame them. If I was that good, I'd want full credit for it too.


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## 987Ron (Apr 9, 2020)

When I made a Pennsylvania Spice Chest it had 52 sets of hand cut dovetails of various sizes. Did not want to do another hand cut dovetail for a long time. Use the old Incra router table jig most of the time. Blind and through.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

i gotta agree the narrow pins really make a statement on a fine piece of furniture.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

Have you used any of the Leigh jigs Rich? Just curious how it compares to the PC. I believe you can set the Leigh to do variable spacing and adjust such that you get half pins. I don't know anyone that has both but everyone I know that has a Leigh jig swears by it. I have the old 4112 PC jig and it's fine for doing large batches of drawers. Otherwise, I either handcut the DTs or, more often, use box joints. In most cases, I think box joints are a more attractive joint.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Have you used any of the Leigh jigs Rich? Just curious how it compares to the PC. I believe you can set the Leigh to do variable spacing and adjust such that you get half pins. I don t know anyone that has both but everyone I know that has a Leigh jig swears by it. I have the old 4112 PC jig and it s fine for doing large batches of drawers. Otherwise, I either handcut the DTs or, more often, use box joints. In most cases, I think box joints are a more attractive joint.
> 
> - HokieKen


You actually do know someone who has both-moi. I bought a Leigh D4 around 20 years ago. When the newer models featured one-pass half-blind cuts I added that modification kit to mine. The problem with the one-pass on the Leigh is that it's a royal pain to set up. The fingers have to be spaced just so for it to work. That's what drove me to buy a 4210 a couple of years ago. It's just as easy to do through dovetails on my Leigh, so that's why I got the 4210 and not the 4212.

I use both depending on the situation. For example for the vanity I did recently I wanted specific depth drawers, so I used the Leigh. If one of the widths that the PC can do fits my needs, I use it since there's really nothing to set up. The PC is also significantly lighter and easier to manage than the 24" Leigh.

One thing I do for half-blinds on each is make setup blocks. That allows me to set the bit depth quickly and accurately. I do one quick test joint just to be sure, but it's always perfect.

Leigh:










PC:










Setup block:










Just plunge, lock it and go:


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

I've got a Leigh and have only used it one time. Another jig out there is the Akeda. I've heard good things about it.
My experience with the Leigh is that it is very unforgiving. Your accuracy has to be extremely precise.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

Thanks Rich. I think my PC jig will do fine for me. I only have the 1/2 blind template but that's what I bought it to do. I may upgrade to the newer model one day if I need to do a load of through DTs but I don't foresee ever owning a Leigh.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

My two bits on the topic of using dovetails or not.

Today they are used in all manner of places that don't actually require them. They can be an expression of craftsmanship, a desire to challenge one's skills, or just for fun.
However in days gone by they were an essential part of the fine art of joinery. I was totally impressed when I built my 18C cabinet with authentic period joinery to see the way that all the parts of the carcase were locked together by the dovetailed top and bottom. The assembled piece, without glue, was absolutely rigid.
The craftsmen and designers of that day were absolutely brilliant and we have made little if any improvement on their work in the last 200 years.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> My two bits on the topic of using dovetails or not.
> 
> Today they are used in all manner of places that don't actually require them. They can be an expression of craftsmanship, a desire to challenge one's skills, or just for fun.
> However in days gone by they were an essential part of the fine art of joinery. I was totally impressed when I built my 18C cabinet with authentic period joinery to see the way that all the parts of the carcase were locked together by the dovetailed top and bottom. The assembled piece, without glue, was absolutely rigid.
> ...


Often they were hidden by panels and used for strength only. I agree about progress. Most of it has been in things like adhesives, which makes fine joinery more of an ornamental feature rather than being necessary for structural strength.

Of course, MCLS does have their heart-shaped joints, so I suppose you could consider that an advancement


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> My two bits on the topic of using dovetails or not.
> 
> Today they are used in all manner of places that don't actually require them. They can be an expression of craftsmanship, a desire to challenge one's skills, or just for fun.
> However in days gone by they were an essential part of the fine art of joinery. I was totally impressed when I built my 18C cabinet with authentic period joinery to see the way that all the parts of the carcase were locked together by the dovetailed top and bottom. The assembled piece, without glue, was absolutely rigid.
> ...


+1 do we even need a dovetail joint anymore ? not really.as you said it's all for looks now ! dont even start me on those heart shaped joints,oh jezz !!!!!!!!!!


















heres an example of a drawer in one of my shop cabinets.about 70lb's of tools in a simple box drawer with just glue and finsh nails.in use for about 20 years,and still solid. dont over think guys !


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> heres an example of a drawer in one of my shop cabinets.about 70lb s of tools in a simple box drawer with just glue and finsh nails.in use for about 20 years,and still solid. dont over think guys !
> 
> - pottz


OK, one more glue and nail drawer box and you're blocked . Seriously though, I've considered using things like Miller dowels, even dominos. I always wind up doing dovetails though. It's not a show of talent since I'm using a jig, it's just a look I think is kind of traditional.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> heres an example of a drawer in one of my shop cabinets.about 70lb s of tools in a simple box drawer with just glue and finsh nails.in use for about 20 years,and still solid. dont over think guys !
> 
> - pottz
> 
> ...


lmao-proof is in the result buddy. all my shop furniture is done the same way and not one failure in 30 years.
hey i just counted.81 total drawers in the shop,and all still solid even with heavy weight and hard use.


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## 987Ron (Apr 9, 2020)

Agee on shop drawers, usually use a locking rabbit joint. Quick easy and does the job. Dove tails on nice stuff, like Spice chests, and such. Box joints on boxes that are more utilitarian. But do like tradition.


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## Sark (May 31, 2017)

+1 for pottz, simple box drawer with glue and finish nails. No wait, lately I've been finishing nailing and then adding a screw and forgetting the glue. OK, kinda unsightly but seems pretty functional. I'll report back in 20 years to see how they have lasted.

Shipwrights, that 18c cabinet is magnificent! Now I'm inspired by dovetail joints on a piece like that. Maybe its dovetails from now on. Since I no longer do cabinets for a "living" I change styles and techniques whenever the fancy strikes.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

I agree on shop drawers. I rabbet, glue and pin nail them and haven't had one fail yet. But for furniture or gifts, I use either dovetails or box joints depending on the project. I agree though, with modern adhesives, traditional joinery is more of a maker's mark than a structural necessity.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

I use a Milescraft dovetail template master jig for my shop drawers. It is actually a template to make jigs. It is the quickest way to make drawers for me. Once a jig is made and dialed it in, you can cut all four corners of drawer in about 5 minutes.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

I have to say this.
The need or lack of need for dovetails should not include references to "modern glues". In any of these situations old traditional animal protein glues are the equal, at least, of "modern glues".
Modern glues have taken over primarily because of convenience and marketing.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I have to say this.
> The need or lack of need for dovetails should not include references to "modern glues". In any of these situations old traditional animal protein glues are the equal, at least, of "modern glues".
> Modern glues have taken over primarily because of convenience and marketing.
> 
> - shipwright


Were the protein glues 200 years ago of the same consistent quality and strength as today's protein glue? I have always been under the assumption that joints like dovetails, pinned tenons, etc were to compensate for inferior adhesive strength.

I'm not disagreeing, I'm looking for clarification.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

There are protein glue joints dating back to Egyptian times that are still sound as I understand it. If you look at the joinery in use back in the day, the dovetails served an important structural "locking" function which on its own aside from aiding any glue function made the whole piece amazingly strong.
This video is an amazing look at the ingenious joinery of the 18C.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

I'm not educated enough about adhesives to know how synthetic glues compare to protein glues. What Paul says rings true though about convenience. I would imagine that getting or making glues a couple of centuries ago was no small task so a lot of craftsmen probably worked without them.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Many of these 18C pieces (as in the above video) are still around and sound. You will notice that the staves in the curved ends and the drawer front layers are not mechanically joined but simply butt joined with protein glue.
These were likely not clamped but rather rub joints as mine were.


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

> *Pro-tip*, sanding discs can be cleaned up and reused a few times by cleaning them with a rubber block same as belts for a belt sander, etc,.
> 
> - wildwoodbybrianjohns


The problem I've found is that the back of the discs get sawdustified and won't grip the velcro-ish backing (on a random orbit sander).

"the first to compare a woman´s cheek to a rose was a poet. The second, an idiot." - Dali

"The third is a super-freaky pervert." - Nick Batzdorf


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

> The problem I ve found is that the back of the discs get sawdustified and won t grip the velcro-ish backing (on a random orbit sander).
> 
> - nickbatz


A blast-o-compressed air works well for me. Not much is more annoying than having the sander fling a disk off to whereverville and minutes later realize you are sanding with only the pad of the sander ~8^/


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

> The problem I ve found is that the back of the discs get sawdustified and won t grip the velcro-ish backing (on a random orbit sander).
> 
> - nickbatz
> 
> ...


Yes, it's annoying.

My problem is that getting my compressor out of a messy pile, putting in the air blower, plugging it in, waiting for it to filll… way over my F-it threshold when I can just grab another $.50 sanding disc.


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

I can remember my dad using the sole of what they called earth shoes back in the 70's to clean beauty sander and disk pads. Worked like a charm.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

For those of us old enough to remember they were called "crepe soles" or just "thick soles" back in the fifties.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

I remember them as "chucka boots"

The gum soles are the same material as the large "erasers" used for belt/disk cleaning. If you find yourself in a second hand store, look for some as chances are the price will be much cheaper than the sticks.


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

Yea, they were the big chunky soles, tanish color.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Crêpe soles…You guys are really creative.

When I get any clogging in the paper, not just dust, but gunk that the crêpe sole won't remove, I wipe it down with maroon or grey 3M pads. Most of the time it'll come off. When it doesn't, time for fresh paper.

I'll also say that I believe many woodworkers keep using a sheet of sandpaper way past its prime. At that point you're just wasting your time.


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

Crepe soles are on chukka boots - still.

Earth Shoes were like Birkenstocks, with the heel lower than the toes. I don't think they had crepe soles, but I could be wrong.


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## 987Ron (Apr 9, 2020)

Back in the olden times my Grandfather always rubbed two pieces of sandpaper together, grit to grit before he would use it. Said it made it more uniform. Good that we do not have to do it now or do we?


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

I also do this, have been doing so for years. And sandpaper can get worn out, yes, but really it just becomes a different grit. It is the gunk like uncured lacquer that kills it.

Rice glue has also been used for a very long time. This glue is said to be very strong, and may be like animal protein glues in that it can be "released" with water (maybe).



> Back in the olden times my Grandfather always rubbed two pieces of sandpaper together, grit to grit before he would use it. Said it made it more uniform. Good that we do not have to do it now or do we?
> 
> - 987Ron


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## Peteybadboy (Jan 23, 2013)

I have the 75 lb PC 24" Omni jig. Very easy to set up and use.

I have been following along. Sorry I'm late to the party!


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I also do this, have been doing so for years. And sandpaper can get worn out, yes, but really it just becomes a different grit. It is the gunk like uncured lacquer that kills it.
> 
> - wildwoodbybrianjohns


That's what I was alluding to. If you're doing an initial sanding with 80 grit, after it wears you're spinning your wheels. If you have more area to sand, you need a fresh sheet of 80 grit.

I also have to question whether worn 80 grit will cut as well as a fresh sheet of, say, 120. It's not like the grains become finer, they just get worn.


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

I was, more or less, not serious with that comment.


> I also do this, have been doing so for years. And sandpaper can get worn out, yes, but really it just becomes a different grit. It is the gunk like uncured lacquer that kills it.
> 
> - wildwoodbybrianjohns
> 
> ...


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## Sark (May 31, 2017)

In my shop, the finishers always used worn out sandpaper for the sanding between coats. We used mostly the blue foamed backed Mirka abrasives, high quality. But fresh sandpaper of any grit cut too aggressively for scuffing up the finish for the next coat. So Grandfather was right.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> In my shop, the finishers always used worn out sandpaper for the sanding between coats. We used mostly the blue foamed backed Mirka abrasives, high quality. But fresh sandpaper of any grit cut too aggressively for scuffing up the finish for the next coat. So Grandfather was right.
> 
> - Sark


This is an interesting topic. For starters, I don't scuff between coats unless I've gone outside the recommended re-coat window. I only sand if there is a need to smooth the surface. Quite often the only thing needed is to remove some nibs and I do that with a denibber.

It's all very subjective. I can kind of see using worn paper if you do want to scuff it, but how do you know how worn it is? It seems like there'd be issues with inconsistency.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

> have more area to sand, you need a fresh sheet of 80 grit.
> 
> I also have to question whether worn 80 grit will cut as well as a fresh sheet of, say, 120. It s not like the grains become finer, they just get worn.
> 
> - Rich


In my experience, it will cut with the same surface finish but it will do so more slowly and with a greater tendency to burn if pushed too hard.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

Grit size and density doesn't change with wear. You just essentially polish the individual pieces and remove facets which cause the cutting action of the abrasion. 120 grit doesn't become 220 grit. It becomes dull 120 grit. So you move from abrading to burnishing. Not saying that can't give you a desired result but just saying at the functional level, it's giving you a different result. Personally, I'll discard a piece of sandpaper as soon as it feels like it's lost effectivity.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Grit size and density doesn t change with wear. You just essentially polish the individual pieces and remove facets which cause the cutting action of the abrasion. 120 grit doesn t become 220 grit. It becomes dull 120 grit. So you move from abrading to burnishing. Not saying that can t give you a desired result but just saying at the functional level, it s giving you a different result. Personally, I ll discard a piece of sandpaper as soon as it feels like it s lost effectivity.
> 
> - HokieKen


^^^^That explains it perfectly. Thanks Kenny. Every facet of your argument is spot-on.


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## 987Ron (Apr 9, 2020)

We had the discussion of box, dovetail, locking rabbit joints etc. for drawers Here are a couple I found here in the house. 
The first the picture is poor, sorry, the bottom of the joint shows it more clearly. This is on an old small chest with a marble top. Knapp Joint. Charles Knapp patented it in 1867 and it was used in the early days of industrial building of furniture.. 1860 to 1900. Hand made drawers in that era a carpenter could make 20 a day with Knapp's method 200 were made in a day. Circular ends on the drawer side with a dowel hole in the center, front cut to receive the circular sides Interesting The chest we have is very sturdy and solid.










This is a locking rabbit










But wait the drawer front has pins that go clear through. This is a Walnut chest I made in about 1962-64 with poplar drawer sides. Have no idea why I did it this way, probably a copy of one I had seen and wanted something different. I was dumb when I was 25 yrs old. Still have the chest, use it daily. Drawers have held up well.










I did not remember these when the discussion was going on. Sorry to be late.


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

Not sure if you're getting my point - that trying to save a $.50 piece of used sandpaper is not a good use of time in my opinion.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

The price of Saran Wrap is getting pretty high…

Sorry Rich


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

> Not sure if you re getting my point - that trying to save a $.50 piece of used sandpaper is not a good use of time in my opinion.
> 
> - nickbatz
> 
> ...


You don't get to tell me not to kid around. Lighten up and stop shouting at me just because you're too slow to get mildly subtle humor.


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

> The price of Saran Wrap is getting pretty high…
> 
> Sorry Rich
> 
> - HokieKen


It is, which is why I'm not allowed to post crepe like that according to Rich.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

It is Rich's thread nothing wrong with keeping it on the rails ;-)


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

This went off the rails quick, to all chill a bit. The comment is a bit off but not worthy of a death sentence.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

> It is Rich's thread nothing wrong with keeping it on the rails ;-)
> 
> - HokieKen


You got in front of me, I am a slow typist Ken


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

> No one gets to tell other people what not to post just because they started a thread.
> 
> Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with what I posted. It s totally relevant to the discussion, I just put it in a silly way.
> 
> - nickbatz


I think you are better with an apology and let it go, just me talking here.


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

You know, Rich, when admonishing children, it is advisable to not use the word - Dont - because children "dont" register the negative pretense easily. So if you say - dont hit the dog - all they recognize is - hit the dog.

Ha. Try parenting small children without ever using that word! Not as easy as it might seem.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

> I think you are better with an apology and let it go, just me talking here.
> 
> - controlfreak
> 
> ...


Bless your heart


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## CommonJoe (May 8, 2021)

Thank You Sir.
I use a 3M 320 grit purple paper on lacquer, works real well, then I go over that with a 3M superfine foam backed pad to even out any scratches. Surface is baby butt smooth to lay down the final coat. Waterbase, 220 is plenty good, worn out or not.


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

Once the finish is on I am mostly "knocking off the hair", doesn't take much grit to do that.


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

I remember when I was growing up on the lake, I had a 12' Sailfish my dad and brother built (Boys Life, 1962 issue). Well every 2-3 years I would sand it down refill countersunk screws, sand down all the bright work. Then start the process of re-painting and spar varnish. I used 400 grit, and wet sanded, had a great finish for a few years exposed to the water. That boat has been gone for 15 years or so now, funny thing is that I still have the plans. (Orginal prints).


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## controlfreak (Jun 29, 2019)

Nice Eric!


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> In my shop, the finishers always used worn out sandpaper for the sanding between coats. We used mostly the blue foamed backed Mirka abrasives, high quality. But fresh sandpaper of any grit cut too aggressively for scuffing up the finish for the next coat. So Grandfather was right.
> 
> - Sark
> 
> ...


i did an all day tour and seminar at the maloof home and woodshop with one of sams boys,larry white.he was explaining the processes they used to make furniture.one question that was asked was do they sand between coats of the poly oil blend sam used.larry said no,we dont "refinish" furniture. he siad if you properly sand and apply the finish sanding between is not needed.i found that very interesting.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> i did an all day tour and seminar at the maloof home and woodshop with one of sams boys,larry white.he was explaining the processes they used to make furniture.one question that was asked was do they sand between coats of the poly oil blend sam used.larry said no,we dont "refinish" furniture. he siad if you properly sand and apply the finish sanding between is not needed.i found that very interesting.
> 
> - pottz


Well, that is Sam after all. A little out of my league. Like I said, I don't have any rules about anything done between coats, I just deal with issues as they come up. If there's any roughness, I get rid of it, otherwise it's there in the next coat.

My favorite thing to use if I need to between coats is Mirka Mirlon Total non-woven pads. They perform similarly to fine sandpaper but without any issues with clogging. They are also more true to the grit they are rated at. I keep the 350, 800 1500 and 2500 pads around. You can buy long rolls of it that are more economical than getting the little boxes that Woodcraft sells.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

although as being a worshipper of anything maloof,i have and do sand between coats sometimes.sorry sam !


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

I have to admit to not sticking to my word today. In the intro to the thread I specifically said I wouldn't say anything publicly if I had a problem with a post. Well, today I forgot that rule and did. I should have stuck to my word but, hey, I'm getting old. That's a good excuse, right? If not, I blame Putin.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

This talk of what we do between coats reminds me of probably the most informative book I've ever read about finishing. It's by Tim Inman and it's titled The Art of Classical Furniture Finishing.

It's only about 75 pages long but it packs in a lot of useful stuff. He starts off with a full finishing schedule. That's what it was about this discussion that made me think of the book, because he stresses that not every job includes each step. I have a hard time giving someone step-by-step instructions based on my experience because I don't always to things the same way depending on how the job is going. Sometimes you have to shift gears.

So, just for fun, here are the steps in Tim Inman's Classic Furniture Finishing Schedule:

Step 1: Surface Preparation 
• If the wood is new construction, size the surface with a solution of hot water and hide glue.
• If the wood is old and you are refinishing, then be sure the wood or remaining surface is clean and free from any waxes.

Step 2: Sand 
Step 3: Sap Staining 
Step 4: Wash Coats and Sealers 
Step 5: Scuff Sand 
Step 6: Stain 
Step 7: Wash Seal 
Step 8: Scuff Sand 
Step 9: Stain 
Step 10: Wash Seal 
Step 11: Scuff Sand 
Step 12: Grain Fill 
Step 13: Sanding Sealer 
Step 14: Scuff Sand 
Step 15: Blending Toner 
Step 16: First Topcoat 
Step 17: Glaze 
Step 18: Second Topcoat 
Step 19: Accent Toner 
Step 20: Third Topcoat 
Step 21: Final Accent Glaze 
Step 22: Final Topcoat 
Step 23: Armor Coat 
Step 24: Final Rub Out 
Step 25: Finishing Paste Wax


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

If anyone has any opinions about that schedule, feel free to speak up. Just kidding, everyone has an opinion about finishing. My take on finishing is, if it looks good, you did it right.

There is one step early in his schedule that doesn't get discussed much and that's sap staining. Ever have that board that's almost perfect except for a little nugget of sapwood that you can't eliminate? I bet we all have. How did you handle it?


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

Only half of what we read about finishing is correct. The problem is in choosing which half.


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

My opinion is: that guy gets paid a lot for his work.


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## 987Ron (Apr 9, 2020)

Inman's method would be a drawn out time wise for me. couple of weeks maybe. Dry between steps. Bet it look good however. Not a wipe on poly and hope for the best type method.


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## Sark (May 31, 2017)

We used water based poly-acrylic finishes (now sold as Enduro by General Finishes), and the advice from the manufacturer was to scuff sand between coats, since subsequent layers simply will not stick to each other. I can imagine that the Maloof formulation, being oil based, might well have properties that allow each additional coat to stick.

My experience was that if the finish was fresh and dry to the touch, but not quite ready to sand, one could put on another coat and get good bonding. But it was always safer, and generally looked better to scuff between coats.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Alright then. Sap staining isn't going to be a hot topic. For the record, I avoid having to do it, but when I do I use an airbrush with a dye like TransTint. The great thing about dyes is that they continue to intensify as you apply more coats, so you can start with a fairly diluted dye and sneak up on a match with the heartwood.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

I typically either include sapwood for contrast or rip it off my boards early on if I want all heartwood. I've never stained sapwood to match heartwood byt I could see doing so if I accidentally let a little but slip by me unnoticed.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

i love to include sap wood whenever i can.i love the contrast.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Here's one I can finally announce. For all you Shaper Origin users out there, there's a new product coming next month:

The Shaper Plate.

Kinda pricey, but they are owned by Festool after all.

Also they're launching a design app called Shaper Studio. I suppose it might be good for someone who's not familiar with vector graphics apps like Illustrator or Affinity, but at $100/yr I won't be signing up.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

This is a recent Woodpeck offering:










So how is this better than simply clamping the ends of the boards? And what about keeping the middle of the joint level? I don't see that happening.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

Is that just a portable version of the Shaper Workstation Rich?

Agree on the WP offering. Looks to me like one would be better off with no cauls at all than with something like that that lets the glue lines wander.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

i looked at those,ill pass.i could make some from scraps myself if i wanted.and i dont want.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Is that just a portable version of the Shaper Workstation Rich?
> 
> Agree on the WP offering. Looks to me like one would be better off with no cauls at all than with something like that that lets the glue lines wander.
> 
> - HokieKen


I'm not sure of the details on that new Shaper Tools product.

It seems like all of these innovators eventually jump the shark. The Woodpeck clamp thingys are a good example of that. I hope Shaper hasn't reached that point so soon.

Solutions looking for a problem.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

I have thought for a couple of years that Woodpeckers had reached a point of making minimal improvements on existing and established designs rather than really innovating. But I do think they may be grasping at straws on this one. Of course there's also the possibility that these bridge caul things are the greatest thing since sliced bread and I'm just not seeing it…

There's a lot of innovating to be done with the Origin on the other hand so I hope that team isn't getting complacent. If I understand it from my quick scan, I don't think the Plate is a bad idea, it just seems redundant if you have the workstation. But if you don't have the workstation, it looks like the Plate might be a decent alternative that's more portable and cheaper but also at some loss in functionality.


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## CommonJoe (May 8, 2021)

> This is a recent Woodpeck offering:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe if the bridges were attached to a Wide T-Track. You get the advantage of a caul and the small bridge over the joints so that your cauls aren't in the glue.


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

I'll stick with the old fashion calls, and wax paper.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

I put packing tape on one side of my cauls. I have big arrows on the ends of each that point to the taped side. Why? I put the untaped side down once and glued my caul to the panel. Not pretty.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> I put packing tape on one side of my cauls. I have big arrows on the ends of each that point to the taped side. Why? I put the untaped side down once and glued my caul to the panel. Not pretty.
> 
> - Rich


man your no fun ;-))


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

I just put packing tape on both sides, too dumb to think "remember the arrow!" in the middle of a glue up.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I just put packing tape on both sides, too dumb to think "remember the arrow!" in the middle of a glue up.
> 
> - splintergroup


I the side towards the board is slightly convex so they're not reversible. Maybe 1/8" on a 32 inch caul. I did it by making a template out of MDF and then doing all of the cutting on the router table.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Of course you can knock the cauls off as soon as the glue tacks but before it cures fully.
…..if you use the right glue…


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> Of course you can knock the cauls off as soon as the glue tacks but before it cures fully.
> …..if you use the right glue…
> 
> - shipwright


can anyone guess what glue paul is talking about ? you may win a huge prize !...... or maybe not ;-))


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

I'm going to go out on a limb…...Hide glue!

I've made cauls out of 3/4" plywood with no arc. They seem to work pretty well. Of course I use packing tape on them to avoid glue sticking to them.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> I m going to go out on a limb…...Hide glue!
> 
> I ve made cauls out of 3/4" plywood with no arc. They seem to work pretty well. Of course I use packing tape on them to avoid glue sticking to them.
> 
> - BurlyBob


remember i said "maybe not" ! ;-))

but as a conciliation prize you get a years worth of used sandpaper bob,just name your grit.sorry only one grit per winner ;-((


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

Well at least I gave it a shot. Paul does some amazing things with hide glue and itty bitty pieces of wood.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> Well at least I gave it a shot. Paul does some amazing things with hide glue and itty bitty pieces of wood.
> 
> - BurlyBob


+1


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## CommonJoe (May 8, 2021)

He must be using contact cement, I read all of his comments about how he does veneer.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> He must be using contact cement, I read all of his comments about how he does veneer.
> 
> - CommonJoe


i had always guessed double sided tape ?


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Tough crowd tonight.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> Tough crowd tonight.
> 
> - Rich


HA, you and have been in much worse. and im just talkin you and me LMAO !!!! good times buddy….......


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

> Tough crowd tonight.
> 
> - Rich


No sh*t !

No consolation prize Bob. You nailed it.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

it's all about the love paul.jokes aside, your one of the most amazing talented woodworkers ive ever met or experienced ! and thats not kidding !


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

That warrants a thank you pottz.
… thanks…


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> No consolation prize Bob. You nailed it.
> 
> - shipwright


Admit it Paul. You coached him. No one could have gotten that one right without inside info.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> it s all about the love paul.jokes aside, your one of the most amazing talented woodworkers ive ever met or experienced ! and thats not kidding !
> 
> - pottz


+1. I build stuff, but Paul is a craftsman. The joinery in his Eighteenth Century Cabinet is beyond my comprehension.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Enough already, you guys are making me blush!
Thanks to you all for the kind words, seriously.
…. but enough


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

No Rich, Paul gave me some very valuable advice that I have kept tuck away for safe keeping. Also I've seen some his amazing marquetry!


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> No Rich, Paul gave me some very valuable advice that I have kept tuck away for safe keeping. Also I ve seen some his amazing marquetry!
> 
> - BurlyBob


Hang on to that advice, Bob. I'd say I've learned a lot from Paul, but he asked us not to, so I won't.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

I'd say I've learned a lot from Paul but I lack the talent to even pick up the manna he's laying down.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Shaper Tools price increase coming October 27th.

The new Shaper Origin price will be $2899, that's a $300 jump!
Workstation $475, an increase of $25.

Also, Shaper has a couple of new products coming later this fall. One is the Shaper Plate. The Plate is a portable unit with Workstation-like uses. It can be used on surfaces to do inlays, edges for hinge mortising, etc. Also coming is the Studio app, a simplified design tool.

The plate will launch later this month.

I should be receiving the Plate to use in demos when it ships. I'm not all fired up about the Studio app. If it's strictly a Shaper Tools product with no retail channel, I'll definitely skip it.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Seems steep for a trim router.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> Seems steep for a trim router.
> 
> - bigblockyeti


hey it's also a plunge router !


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Seems steep for a trim router.
> 
> - bigblockyeti
> 
> ...


You guys are on fire today! It's also got a LCD screen so you can watch Youtube and follow along.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

> You guys are on fire today! It s also got a LCD screen so you can watch Youtube and follow along.
> 
> - Rich


Well sign me up. I love watching youtube while running power tools. I have a cutout in the side table of my unisaw for a router plate to drop in, next week I'm getting a tablet to go there instead.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Everyone knows I'm a geek with my Color Muse 2 and a digitized database of all of my Mohawk fill products. Well, in case you've forgotten, here's a reminder-not only of my geekiness, but of the value of the time I've put in to collect that data.

I'm building a new front entry door with five glass panels. Frankly, the project is probably over my head, but I'm tenacious. Hopefully it won't suck.

Just to bring you up to date, here's a photo of the door sitting on my Festool STM 1800 after finishing the interior side of the door with Osmo UV. I know UV isn't necessary on the inside, but I've got several cans I received for free. The framing for the glass panels is attached and it's ready to flip, drop in the glass, and add the framing for the exterior side.










Installing the glass went well. The panels are 3/4" thick, and I chose to use glazing tape only on the exterior side.










Here are the glass panels laid in with the frame pieces ready.










Everything went well when I attached the frame around the panels. I removed the blue backing on the glazing tape and glued and tacked the frame using my Cadex 21 ga nailer. I love this nailer because it can shoot both pins and brads. I chose brads figuring the heads would help secure it.

I filled the brad holes with Famowood. Well, after sanding and putting on my first coat of Osmo UV, I noticed some of the holes didn't have filler, likely due to not pushing it in firmly enough. Those holes are tiny after all. Since I'd already put Osmo on, sanding wasn't an option, so I decided to go with Mohawk hard fill.

Here's where being a geek paid off. I scanned the area with my Color Muse 2 and got this Lab result (btw, there are supposed to be asterisks between the L, a and b, but on LJ, the result would be L*a*b).



















I entered those values into my spreadsheet, calculated Delta-E for the Mohawk hard fill sticks, and this is the result.










I didn't want to waste screen space with the entire spreadsheet, but the bold values on the right are Delta-E. Clearly, the Mohawk M310-1522 stick is the best match.










I melted that fill in, leveled it with the Mohawk hard fill leveling tool, and here's the result. (Sorry I didn't take a before photo, but it was just an unfilled brad hole.)










Not exact, but it works for me. When it comes to matching fills, my rule is never go redder, and never go lighter, so I'm very happy with this.

If anyone ever comes to my door and tells me my 21 gauge pin fills don't match perfectly, I'm going to tell them to get the hell out.


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## EricFai (Sep 30, 2018)

Great looking door Rich. Well done and the filler match is close enough. I have used Minwax oil fillers and have mixed then to get a desired color when needed.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Cool. I actually ordered a Color Muse 2 last night or the Sherwin-Williams branded one anyway. It was almost $30 cheaper from SW than Amazon, if you register on their website and order online-$20 cheaper otherwise. It looks to be the same as the Color Muse 2 and hopefully it really is identical and not hacked to only work with the SW apps. If not they have a 14 day return. I am about to attempt toning some lacquer on some walnut MCM chairs I am refinishing (you've seen my post on the subject) and hope that I can figure out how to use it to tweak the colors to get the match closer to the table that doesn't need refinishing. My wife wants to make sure that the chairs are not too red compared to the table.

I really like that door design, BTW. I would like to attempt something like that but I am a little intimidated by the thought of screwing it up or having it fall apart after just a few years. Will yours fit into the existing jamb or will you redo the jamb too?

BTW, you should sell your database to either Mohawk or Color Muse to add to their database for paint matching.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Cool. I actually ordered a Color Muse 2 last night or the Sherwin-Williams branded one anyway. It was almost $30 cheaper from SW than Amazon, if you register on their website and order online-$20 cheaper otherwise.
> 
> [...]
> 
> ...


I should have looked there. My first Muse was an impulse buy at the SW store near me. It was SW branded, but it's the same thing.

Time will tell if the door falls apart someday. I used some pretty beefy loose tenons so I suspect it'll be OK.

I wrote to Mohawk when I first started and suggested they provide Lab values for their products, but never heard back from them. They were probably laughing too hard to respond.


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## 987Ron (Apr 9, 2020)

Really like the door and the finish. Nicely done as usual.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

Fine looking door Rich, 3/4" thick panes? I'm assuming they are double pane, but otherwise a great bullet proof barrier 8^)


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

That's a great looking door Rich.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Thanks all. I'll do a project post when it's done.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Just a teaser. When the door is finished and hung, I am planning a track saw post to dispel once and for all the myth that they are only good for breaking down sheet goods.

Like I said, I did that vanity exclusively with my Festool TSC 55 KEB and the Festool parallel guides and my WoodPeck guides. The face frames, door frames and panels. All of it.

Why do I need both sets of parallel guides? I'll show you.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

rich no need to prove to me about track saws ? you and i already know what they can do !


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> rich no need to prove to me about track saws ? you and i already know what they can do !
> 
> - pottz


You know and I know, but the masses are ignorant, Lar. I'm determined to change that.


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## CommonJoe (May 8, 2021)

Better school me before the 20th….just sayin.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Better school me before the 20th….just sayin.
> 
> - CommonJoe


Looking at my schedule, you're in trouble. Sorry.


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## CommonJoe (May 8, 2021)

That's alright, I get it. I'm just an old dog set in his ways. You could make all the sense in the world, and I'm still going to do things the way I do. 
Nice door BTW.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Nice door BTW.
> 
> - CommonJoe


Thanks. That means a lot coming from you.


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## CommonJoe (May 8, 2021)

> Nice door BTW.
> 
> - CommonJoe
> 
> ...


Appreciate it, Thanks


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

rich who the hell is this joe guy ? he seems to post a lot,and i think he knows what he's talkin about…..maybe ?


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> rich who the hell is this joe guy ? he seems to post a lot,and i think he knows what he s talkin about…..maybe ?
> 
> - pottz


I was skeptical at first. You know how many wannabes we get on here. But this guy, Joe, seems different. He might have potential.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> rich who the hell is this joe guy ? he seems to post a lot,and i think he knows what he s talkin about…..maybe ?
> 
> - pottz
> 
> ...


ill see,seems to have potential ? but many here do and prove otherwise ?


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> ill see,seems to have potential ? but many here do and prove otherwise ?
> 
> - pottz


Time will tell.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

The easy way to get cred is to post what you can do. Anyone who refuses to post projects will have to suffer the speculation of the rest of us as to their qualifications.
…. just sayin' …
Show me the money!


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## CommonJoe (May 8, 2021)

> The easy way to get cred is to post what you can do. Anyone who refuses to post projects will have to suffer the speculation of the rest of us as to their qualifications.
> …. just sayin' …
> Show me the money!
> 
> - shipwright


I tried, but it's discouraging when you take the time to put together pictures and post them, then you get 145 views, and only one person has the courtesy to comment. It tells me all I need to know. I can suffer.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> The easy way to get cred is to post what you can do. Anyone who refuses to post projects will have to suffer the speculation of the rest of us as to their qualifications.
> …. just sayin' …
> Show me the money!
> 
> - shipwright


The other side of that is those who do post projects that are underwhelming (to be polite), yet seem to think they are the new Frank Klausz. They showed me the money and got change back for their dollar.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I tried, but it s discouraging when you take the time to put together pictures and post them, then you get 145 views, and only one person has the courtesy to comment. It tells me all I need to know. I can suffer.
> 
> - CommonJoe


Could be they are so much in awe that they don't know what to say. I've made posts that got one or two responses, but that's fine. I enjoyed doing them.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

the ones that get me are the people that make your project a favorite yet say nothing. ?


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## CommonJoe (May 8, 2021)

> I tried, but it s discouraging when you take the time to put together pictures and post them, then you get 145 views, and only one person has the courtesy to comment. It tells me all I need to know. I can suffer.
> 
> - CommonJoe
> 
> ...


No, i'm just not user friendly, I get it.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> I tried, but it s discouraging when you take the time to put together pictures and post them, then you get 145 views, and only one person has the courtesy to comment. It tells me all I need to know. I can suffer.
> 
> - CommonJoe
> 
> ...


maybe they didn't read the instructions joe ?


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

Well FWIW, I'm convinced Joe!


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## CommonJoe (May 8, 2021)

> Well FWIW, I'm convinced Joe!
> 
> - shipwright


Thank You Paul


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

rich you still here ? been awful quiet since the switch !


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Yep. I had a lot of stuff in the works. The new front door, a bunch of mesquite picture frames I had orders for, stuff like that. That's done now and up next I want to do a project post for the door, and the track saw guide post I've been intending to do for quite a while.

Just gotta get in the mood.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

RichT said:


> Yep. I had a lot of stuff in the works. The new front door, a bunch of mesquite picture frames I had orders for, stuff like that. That's done now and up next I want to do a project post for the door, and the track saw guide post I've been intending to do for quite a while.
> 
> Just gotta get in the mood.


cool,im always here in the shadows.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

I'm working on a DIY version of the Lee Valley Domino Joinery Table. Pretty good, but I'm about 1 mm off when changing sides. Yes I can work with it, but it makes no sense. That bugs me.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

Just measure in inches Rich. 1/25.4 sounds like a lot less 😆


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

HokieKen said:


> Just measure in inches Rich. 1/25.4 sounds like a lot less 😆


I shouldn't have an error to measure. That's what I'm trying to figure out. The LV version uses a fancy gauge to position the guide when it's flipped over to the other side. I'm doing miters for frames, so all I need is a fixed gauge (stick). In other words, that's not a variable. It's registering off of the 37mm guides on the domino itself.

Back to the shop this morning to see if I can find anything that might cause it. Could just be user error. Like I said, I can deal with it, but it just bothers me.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

I am a little puzzled by your picture. The hold downs with the big red nobs on the wedge do not line up with the T-track How are you holding it in place? The wedge has to be against the fence and the Domino up against it for exact registration, if I understand how the Veritas device works. Also I do not see any adjustability in the fence on either side of the Domino. I assume you've double checked that both sides are perfectly aligned with a long straight edge.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Here's what I'm dealing with. It's not even a full millimeter. More like half. It's consistent, so user error is not likely. 

Like I said, it's not a big deal, it just bothers me. It's got to be due to something, I just can't figure out what that might be.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

It looks like it is off in 2 dimensions? Almost looks like they are twisted relative to each other.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Lazyman said:


> I am a little puzzled by your picture.


Here's a different look at it. The red knobs screw into t-nuts in the holes, and the t-track is for hold downs for the workpiece.

I know those 37mm stops on the domino itself are dead on, so I think it's got to have something to do with the triangular guide block. I just sort of whacked it out with the saw. I'm thinking I might pull out the Shaper Origin and redo it.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Lazyman said:


> It looks like it is off in 2 dimensions? Almost looks like they are twisted relative to each other.


No, the joint is flush. That line you see is fuzz from the miter cut itself.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Sometimes, even I burn electrons...








Only takes a 6" blade...


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

oh man thats an oldie but a goldie !


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

bandit571 said:


> Sometimes, even I burn electrons...
> Only takes a 6" blade...


I've done you the courtesy of staying out of your thread. Too bad you can't return the favor.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)




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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

That is perplexing Rich. Is it possible that it’s a difference in the miter angles causing the offset?


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

HokieKen said:


> That is perplexing Rich. Is it possible that it’s a difference in the miter angles causing the offset?


Yeah, it's got to be something, Kenny. The domino itself is nuts-on. I wanted a slightly larger triangular guide anyway, so it's time to pull out the Shaper and see if that's the fix.

BTW, here's the final joint given that offset. That line won't show on the mesquite I use for my frames, so I guess it's good as-is. Just bugs me...lol


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

RichT said:


> Yeah, it's got to be something, Kenny. The domino itself is nuts-on. I wanted a slightly larger triangular guide anyway, so it's time to pull out the Shaper and see if that's the fix.
> 
> BTW, here's the final joint given that offset. That line won't show on the mesquite I use for my frames, so I guess it's good as-is. Just bugs me...lol
> 
> View attachment 3856264


How did you determine the length of your setup stick? I assume you are using it to setup both sides?


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

Looks good from here Rich


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Lazyman said:


> How did you determine the length of your setup stick? I assume you are using it to setup both sides?


I eyeballed it. Scientifically of course. With miter joints, all I care about is getting the domino a short ways from the inside angle. The width of the board isn't an issue.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Alrighty. We have success at last. I cut a new guide using the Shaper Origin this morning and just gave it the first test run. There must have been something slightly off with the old one. Not sure what it could have been, but at this point, I don't care. This one works. The joint is dead flush.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

looks good from here


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Looks like we have a winner!


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Broke down today...needed 4 planks to be all the same thickness ~3/4" thick....1 x 6 x 48" is too much to hand plane.

Hauled them to my Hardwood Supplier..and ran them through a Delta 12" Lunch Box Planer...one of 2 he has....was all set to use his...power to the switch, motor did NOT start....Years ago, I gave him my older version of that planer..we dragged that one out..ran the 4 planks through with zero problems...noisy, never slowed the machine down...was sending those Ash planks right on through, and no end problems ( snipe) were to be seen. one pass each face.. scale said we were down to just a 1/64" above 3/4" thick....Boards were between 7/8" and 15/16" thick..at the start.

helps when the knives are almost brand new, too..

Yep, somedays one just HAS to use a machine...


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

bandit571 said:


> Broke down today...needed 4 planks to be all the same thickness ~3/4" thick....1 x 6 x 48" is too much to hand plane.
> 
> Hauled them to my Hardwood Supplier..and ran them through a Delta 12" Lunch Box Planer...one of 2 he has....was all set to use his...power to the switch, motor did NOT start....Years ago, I gave him my older version of that planer..we dragged that one out..ran the 4 planks through with zero problems...noisy, never slowed the machine down...was sending those Ash planks right on through, and no end problems ( snipe) were to be seen. one pass each face.. scale said we were down to just a 1/64" above 3/4" thick....Boards were between 7/8" and 15/16" thick..at the start.
> 
> ...





bandit571 said:


> Broke down today...needed 4 planks to be all the same thickness ~3/4" thick....1 x 6 x 48" is too much to hand plane.
> 
> Hauled them to my Hardwood Supplier..and ran them through a Delta 12" Lunch Box Planer...one of 2 he has....was all set to use his...power to the switch, motor did NOT start....Years ago, I gave him my older version of that planer..we dragged that one out..ran the 4 planks through with zero problems...noisy, never slowed the machine down...was sending those Ash planks right on through, and no end problems ( snipe) were to be seen. one pass each face.. scale said we were down to just a 1/64" above 3/4" thick....Boards were between 7/8" and 15/16" thick..at the start.
> 
> ...


HA HA,im the opposite,somedays one just HAS to use a handtool  😎


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## Poolhockey (3 mo ago)

RichT said:


> Yeah, it's got to be something, Kenny. The domino itself is nuts-on. I wanted a slightly larger triangular guide anyway, so it's time to pull out the Shaper and see if that's the fix.
> 
> BTW, here's the final joint given that offset. That line won't show on the mesquite I use for my frames, so I guess it's good as-is. Just bugs me...lol
> 
> View attachment 3856264


I know you've solved this but I thought id observe that the miter angle doesnt quite point to the corner of the joint (top of pic), and since the joint is tight there was an offset somewhere where the workpiece addresses the saw; the angle looks like 44 ish instead.

Beautiful table setup there. Personally i cant wait to read about the door. I would like to do one very similar to your design (two actually for a french door) but dont have the stones yet - got to work up to it, haha. So I am looking forward to your tale on that one. 

and hi, btw. Im going to post a project or two of my own. There will be things to criticize


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Somedays...one has to get out the BIG tools...








To make things match up..


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

bandit571 said:


> Somedays...one has to get out the BIG tools...


And you did. Looks good.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

I just posted a project for my new front entry door.

Check it out.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

*The Next Generation Origin
Is Here*​


Today, we're excited to announce the second generation Origin. Our team has rebuilt Origin to make it even more accessible, responsive, and intuitive to woodworkers around the world. Designed and engineered by Shaper in California, assembled with care by Festool in Germany.​

Here's a link: Origin + Workstation = Your Precision Workshop


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

RichT said:


> *The Next Generation Origin
> Is Here*​
> 
> 
> ...


time to upgrade buddy. im sure you'll donate the old one to a good friend......right


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

pottz said:


> time to upgrade buddy. im sure you'll donate the old one to a good friend......right


I'm not sure what will happen. The improvements are nice, but nothing to really warrant someone upgrading. I'm sure some will, just to have the latest.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

RichT said:


> I'm not sure what will happen. The improvements are nice, but nothing to really warrant someone upgrading. I'm sure some will, just to have the latest.


kinda like young people and the latest greatest apple iphone  🤣


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

Just for the record Rich, if you do decide to pass your mk.1 along as a hand me down, I’ve always liked you more than Pottz has.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

HokieKen said:


> Just for the record Rich, if you do decide to pass your mk.1 along as a hand me down, I’ve always liked you more than Pottz has.


stop sucking up kenny.at least rich and i are honest with each other enough to say your an asshole and go back to the conversation like nothing happened.and thats on a normal day  🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Rich doesn't like suck-ups which is why I would be first in line.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

Lazyman said:


> Rich doesn't like suck-ups which is why I would be first in line.


SAYS WHO ?


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

You guys are the best.


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