# Northeast Iowa - Heating a detached shop?



## RobertStix (May 17, 2013)

I'm building a new shop because my wife wants to put our addition into part of my current shop's footprint. That's cool, I can build the shop I want rather than retrofitting a garden-shed, which is what I have now.

December hit 10 below and stayed there for a while. I need to heat the shop at least four months and up to six months of the year, and de-humidify in the summer.

Last winter I used a portable electric/oil which was good, I also used an electric/fan heater that did the job, but both made nasty spikes in the electric bill when they were in use, in addition to always being underfoot and drawing precious amps.

Those of you in colder climates, how do you heat your detached/outbuilding shops?

Thanx - Rob


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## shawnmasterson (Jan 24, 2013)

Wood stove. I heat 26×30 with a side kick. It has a thermostat controlled blower. I use2-3 cords of wood. I live in northern Indiana


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm in NW Ohio, and I used a wood stove for several years (24×28 shop) and really, really liked it. There's something magic about the crackling of the fire while you're woodworking. That said, my shop also had a gas furnace (LP) and the wood stove with it's clearances took up more floor space than I could spare. Eventually I just used the furnace, setting the 'stat at 50º at night. We moved, the current shop is 24×32, and I carefully insulated it a lot more than my last one. I still have my wood stove, but didn't hook it up, just another gas furnace: a 45K BTU ceiling hung job. A year ago I burned 100 gallons of LP, this year 150 gallons (I put a meter on it to track the cost). This shop has R19 walls, a 16' OH door, and R40 ceilings.


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## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

You can spend a lot for a an efficient system like,gas fired garage heaters,or better still natural gas,my garage/shop is a hobby shop and I don't have to spend long periods of time there and can't justify the expense of putting a NG line from the house to the detached garage.
What I use is mainly Kerosene radiant heaters(2 Of them),and to get the initial chill out of the shop I use a portable propane/electric heater for 10-15 minutes ,I also bought an overhead electric heater from LV ,they are great to warm up your head/upper body(runs for an hour),the kerosene heaters are on a low bench warming up my legs,it all works out well,$100 or so a month to heat the place up,of course I only spend 3-4 hours a day 4 day a week.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Don't know your location relative to town, neighbors, zoning restrictions, etc. but an outdoor wood furnace that heats water and pumps it through hot water tubing embedded in the concrete floor (which must be poured over rigid foam insulation) works great for heating. These furnaces can burn stumps, pallets, scrap and green wood and are thermostatically controlled with a combustion air blower. A friend of mine has one and heats his shop, cabin, swimming pool and all his hot water needs. Loves it. In Tennessee there are times when it may sit and smolder for 2 or 3 days then, when the thermostat demands heat, the blower kicks on and in minutes the thing is heating at full bore. Folks in town don't have such good luck due to the smoke output, but outside town they are great.

I'm building a new 23' x 23' shop in town this fall, depends on selling the farm for the timing, and I think I'm settled on heating the floor with a gas water heater and cooling/dehumidifying with a 14000 btu window type air conditioner; wall mounted. The equipment to do this will cost less than $1000 and I can install it myself.

Obviously I'm not in the frigid zone you are in, but we have had as much as a week or two in negative temps (below zero). Coldest temp I can remember here is -13 degrees F. We just don't have that every year and not for months on end. Of course, the other side of the equation is we can have weeks of 110 degrees F and >90% humidity to go with it. We all have our challenges.


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

I got a forced air "house furnace" from a heating/cooling place. It was one that someone was replacing but was still good shape. I gave the guy $50.00 for it and then had the HV/AC place make me a plenim and a short run, that I can hang from the ceiling. As long as it works well, the installation is a breeze. I have about 300.00 total in it. It heats my 28×36 garage/shop to a constant 45 degrees for about 25.00 for a month. That includes when I kick it up to 70 when I am out there. ( and the occasional night or two a winter when I leave the garage door open) Now I might add that my shop is very well insulated…it is awesome but, someday the furnace will die and I will have to get another "left over", you just have to realize that from the start. Oh I might add, I built a angle iron frame to raise it off the floor about a foot….I really don't know why, the hv/ac guy said to for saftey.
I am in Cedar Rapids, so I realize all about Iowa winters….
Thanks
Mike


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## 1yeldud1 (Jan 26, 2010)

Mine is similar to "moke" - I have a detached 28 by 28 garage with 2 insulated garage doors - 2 double insulated windows and a walk thru door. I have 4 inches of fiberglass in the walls and have 6 inches in the ceiling. I have just under 8 foot ceilings. i had a new furnace and air conditioner installed in my house and had the contractor install my 5 year old gar furnace in my shop. It is a high efficiency using plastic pipe for intake and exhaust thru the side walls. It is a down draft furnace so we had to make a pedistal for it to set on and I made a filter adapter to set on top of it. I have about 350.00 in getting it installed. Last year I went to the garage almost every night for 3 to 4 hours. I would turn the thermostat to 70 degrees and go eat supper - toasty warm 20 minutes later - My utility bills for gas and electric ran between 22 dollars to 36 dollars a month - should have done this 25 years ago !


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## WillieIV (Dec 12, 2011)

I'm in Southwest IA and in a similar situation. My shop is 24×32 with 10' ceilings. 2×6 walls with R19 and 18 inches of cellulose in the ceiling. Right now, my shop is staying 65 degrees. I installed a NewAir G73 and had absolutely no problems heating the shop this winter. This summer I'm trying to decide what to install for cooling. I've looked at mini splits etc. Just need to make a decision but want to make the right one. Looking forward to other's comments on the subject.

Bill


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## Sandblastguy (Aug 14, 2012)

I am in Ontario just north of Toronto and I heat my 25×50 shop for at least six months of the year. I put in floor heating in when I built it and haven't regretted it for one minute. It's at 68 degrees night and day. I work in it every day. It has a large window on the south side and after you run a few machines in the morning the furnace rarely comes on , especially if the sun is shining. I use propane to heat the boiler but you can use electric hot water heaters. I wish I had the same system in my house. I would think my winters are comparable to crank49 and Mikes.


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## distrbd (Sep 14, 2011)

I have a question for those of you who use a gas furnace in the shop,is there a problem with saw dust getting blow around when the furnace kicks in? how about the furnace itself,does the dust get in to fan/blower, or orifices ?I have heard the best kind of heating for dusty environment is radiant(no moving parts) ,mainly to eliminate blowing dust around,but also the NG type is expensive but very low cost in operation and maintenance.
A bigger version of this:


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

I know what your winters are like … I was born and raised in NW Iowa. Winters here in NE Wisconsin aren't exactly a walk in the park, either.

My shop, technically, is not detached … it is the 3rd stall in a 3 car garage … however the 2 stalls for the cars are between the house and the shop.

When we built the shop last year, we insulated the attic in the entire garage space (there we zero insulation up there when we moved in) to R39, replaced the cheap box store roll-up doors with steel, insulated doors that shut tight, built and insulated walls to separate the shop from the garage, installed a 100-amp subpanel, and hung a Hot Dawg 30,000 BTU gas heater. The thermostat on the Hot Dawg was set to bottom out at 42 degrees … I would crank it up to 64 in the morning and be comfortable all day.

My highest monthly combined gas and electric bill (for the house and the shop) this past winter was $216.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I was worried about the dust being blown around by forced air, and to be honest I'd rather have something that didn't move the air. That said, it hasn't been a problem for me. In the last shop I'd run the ambient air cleaner for a while to clear the air of dust. I don't have one in the current shop, so I'm a little more careful about prepping for finish. The problem for me was balancing the cost of a radiant system of some kind with the much cheaper forced air type of heat.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Fred … Good point. I run the air cleaner (Rikon 3-speed) most of the time in the shop, It not only cleans the air, but recirculates the heated air from the Hot Dawg. A week or so back, I got up on a ladder and blew the Hot Dawg out with compressed air … there was hardly any dust built up in it after a full winter's use (October through mid-May).


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## johnstoneb (Jun 14, 2012)

I'm using a wood pellet stove for mine, 16"x24 R13 in walls, R19 in ceiling and metal insulated garage door.


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## LakeLover (Feb 2, 2013)

Radient heat floor. Is heated from the one , NG boiler that does the house also.

I used to have a NG heater in the last shop. It was a ceiling hung unit and it did blow dust around.

Not having a combustion unit in the shop sure reduces headachs with finishing solutions and it is a dry heat. Less problems with wet wood.

Big south windows, with designed overhangs to reduce summer heating and max winter heating. There is not way in hell anyone here would get away with using a wood stove in a wood shop. Even putting in a wood burning fireplace doubles my insurance.

As far as the outside boiler units I have heard good things about them, but I also talked to 2 different people and they had to have a 135 foot seperation between the wood firing unit and the shop/barn. That seems a bit strange to me, but insurance rules.

I have R40 ceilings, R19 walls, 1 insulated garage door ( not used often ). 2 walk in doors. No AC but I did frame in a place, for a window unit. Insulation of your building will save long term $ and the comfort and noise reduction are bonus.

I live an hour north of Montana, Canada border and we get all sort of cold winters, like this last one that never seemed to end…......
One other suggestion min 9 foot ceilings, 10 is better. Also if you can put a dust collection port for your table saw under the floor.

I can give you lots of good build tips when the time comes.


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

I have one of those small gas heaters that mount on a wall. It's about 2 ft on a side andabout 10" thick. We use propane here in the northeast for such things. my shop is 25×25 and it heats it well. We usually don't go below zero here in Maine though. I'd think the best thing you can do is over do the insulation when you build the place.

Expensive but I'm all into pellet stoves. We heat the house with one but the stove can cost in excess of 2 grand.


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## RonInOhio (Jul 23, 2010)

OP you didn't mention the size of your shop. If so , sorry I missed that part. Also you did'nt mention
how or if your current shed is insulated or not. Depending on the size, and how well insulated it is,
will determine the most efficient way to heat it.

Without knowing how large your new shop is I would just venture to say a wood burning stove along with supplemental heat from electric heaters as you see fit. Obviously, the better the shop is insulated and the smaller it is , the less money it will take to heat it and insulate it.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

Last winter I used just a couple electric space heaters with no insulation here in Missouri. It worked ok, but I did not leave it on. This summer I am insulating my 12 by 24 shop attached to my garage. I'm using r11 in the walls and 13 in the ceiling. I know it's light but it will be a huge improvement. I don't need it to be 70 in there. 55 would be great. I purchased an old window ac to put in the wall and I believe that's gonna be great to cool it off and remove some humidity. Probably will leave that on at about 10 below daily high and maybe lower it while I'm in there. My father in law who has a lot more to spend on his shop has the radiant heat you refer to and has no problem with dust as long as he gets up there and cleans it off about once per year. He too is talking about installing mini split, which he said he needs an electrician for. I am not familiar with them.


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## GaryC (Dec 31, 2008)

here's what I use
Vogelzang Deluxe Airtight Barrel Stove Kit

Google it


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## jackthelab (Jan 10, 2011)

Hey

I live in SE MN and I would have loved to use wood as we have a ton of it for burning. But, insurance rates put a quick stop to that thought. I used propane as we live in the country and have no access to natural gas. I have a Hot Dawg heater and the thing works great. Good luck and we know all too well the weather changes that you experience.


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## gfadvm (Jan 13, 2011)

I have a repurposed forced air furnace converted to propane that works super! I use several filters on the inlet side and clean them a couple of times per winter. It really helps keep the dust down (acts like a big air filter)


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## RobertStix (May 17, 2013)

Thanx for all the responses! New shop will be approx. 16' x 24' with a gambrel roof and lumber-loft. I'm re-purposing pallets for the walls. R20 will probably be my max with extruded polystyrene. Ceiling will be more like R24. Floor is to be insulated slab. 
I'm going to put a trombe-type collector box on my south wall (long) as well as clerestory windows and summer awnings. North side will be smaller windows (just enough to check on the kids), East end will be twin 3' insulated steel doors w/no astragal and a 32" antique man-door. West end will have an eye-level casement and outdoor boxes to house the compressor & the vac.

I'll utilize as much passive as possible, but my goal is to keep it 40f 24/7 year-round and then adjust up when occupied.

Right now, I'm in a 9'-2" x 11'-6" shed with an R7 insulated ceiling and gables, with a buffering lean-to enclosure on the north side.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

What size is the shop going to be and how high is the ceiling??

My shop is 28×48 with 12' ceiling. I pretty much have to heat year round. I use a 95 % Natural gas forced air unit hung form the ceiling. Works well


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## MarkDavisson (Apr 26, 2009)

Central Indiana here. I heat my shop with a couple of kerosene space heaters and, like others, use a salamander to heat it up initially in the mornings. I'm a hobbyist, however.

If you're wanting to heat in the winter and a/c in the summer, you might consider a ductless mini-split system. We have a couple of them in our house. From the dimensions of your shop, I suspect a 12,000 btu unit might be enough, and you can get one of those for around $1,700 and install it yourself. The Mitsubishi hyper-heat units will heat down to an outside temp of -13, and are extremely efficient 20+ SEER.

https://www.goductless.com/Mitsubishi/MUZ-FE12NA-MSZ-FE12NA-12000-BTU-23-SEER-Ductless-Hyper-Heat-Pump/19593.ac?catId=ductless-best-sellers


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Thanks for the post, Robert. I'm fixing to build a shop and enjoyed reading all of the responses.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

distrb,
Reference the forced air blowing dust…that is a good question. I have noticed the first shop time after the first turning of the furnace is a little dusty. In early october I vacuum out the unit put in a new filter and then turn on the fan to "clear out the cobwebs". I have a Jet air cleaner that I run religiously, I buy good filters and blow them out with air once a week or so, use a DC to include a downdraft table, and I am only a hobbiest, so the volume of dust would not be significant to begin with. I must admit I have never looked in the short run I have….and maybe I don't want to!!!!

This is off subject, but I have to say also, I have not had the luck with AC that I have with heat….for all of you that want to use a "portable" AC unit…I have two for a total of 17,000 btu and still can not keep it cool. I think AC is almost more important than HV. To work in your shop when you are dripping sweat is not only not pleasant but very hard on steel/iron tools. To install a central AC is not simple, so it is expensive. I went with the two portables…..yah…they suck….Maybe we should start another thread to talk about this?


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## R_Stad (May 9, 2013)

I'm in Oregon, so not as cold. We burn wood for heat so I was leaning towards using one of my older stoves in my detached 2 car garage. The expense of good safe piping and insurance questions turned me to a ceiling mounted 220 volt electric. I'm not usually in there all day, but it warms up right away. I was waiting for my wife to mention an increase in our electic bill, but it never came up (it would have if it was noticeable). I paid about $240 shipped from Blaines Farm and Fleet. Wiring was easy. Just another option that may or may not work for you. Sounds like it will be a nice shop. Good luck.
http://www.marleymep.com/en/fahrenheat/pd-fuh-garage-heater/


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## shawnmasterson (Jan 24, 2013)

I keep hearing about wood and insurance hikes. I have had mine for 5+ years, I installed it myself. I had called my agent and they said as long as it was an unattached structure, and installed to their specs it wouldn't affect my policy. they sent me a book and I went a little over kill on the steel on the wall, but it was free. The book said use 22ga with a 1" air gap, I had some panels that were 14ga and had a 3" air gap. at first my agent said I will pretend I didn't hear about the stove and I said no I want it approved by you guys. so I am covered. They sent out a guy to inspect and all is well.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

I've used forced heat in my shop for over 20 years and have had no problems with blowing dust. Typically a forced air furnace has a filter on the intake side and act as a air cleaner similar to the air cleaner guys build and buy for their shops. I spray finish in my shop all the time with good results. I think it's an non issue.










Cabinet doors sprayed while using forced air heating.


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## AandCstyle (Mar 21, 2012)

I have in floor radiant heat and think it is the best thing since sliced bread. The main advantages are that I never have to stand on cold concrete, the tools are never freezing cold to touch and I don't get condensation on the TS, etc. I leave it set at 55 degrees and life is good. FWIW


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## synker (Jul 29, 2012)

I have a wall mount vent free gas heater. It works fine and I have some insulation in the shop. My shop is part of a 3 car garage and is separated by a wall. My problem is that this year (very cold and snowy in Michigan) the moisture condensed on the roof (even in the main part of the garage) and the first sunny day was dripping on my tools. I am installing a gable vent, but is there anything else I need to do like putting in some kind of fan or anything?


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

A fan might help, but the moisture is due to the ventless heater releasing products of combustion into the shop, one of them being water. Better insulation would keep cold surfaces from having water condense on them. The other thing would be a dehumidifier, at least when it's so cold. It's been cold here in MO too and I have been working on finishing the insulation in my shop so that I can heat with my electric heaters more efficiently.


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## firefighterontheside (Apr 26, 2013)

Sorry, over post.


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## lostsheep (Nov 9, 2011)

Well, here's a thought for some enterprising heat. 
This Aussy fellow scavenged two truck( semi-truck) brake drums, and nested them together. He used a cylinder liner from a large diesel engine (say Cummins or Cat) which he perforated with a ba-zillion holes. A cast iron dutch oven, a couple of pieces of angle iron, and a tank for holding used oil. Yep. it burns used oil, like crankcase oil. He heats his entire house with it. It's quite a little unit, and really looks pretty good. 
I mentioned this to my 92 year old retired machinist neighbor, and he decided to build one using an old air tank. It worked well enough that he sold it for an undisclosed amount!
Spikes oil heater website even includes free drawings for you. His videos cover most everything. And no, it doesn't smoke or stink. The cast iron brake drums radiate heat evenly. Check it out. I hope the link works for you…
http://www.spicrosoft.com/Heater/Heater1.htm


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## Dick33 (Jan 2, 2013)

I live a little south of toy about 30 miles. My shop is 30×30 I have a hanging 220 volt hot one heater it will take care of it very well. This last fall I installed a small wood burner it works great burning scraps and all the downed trees on the property .


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## johnstoneb (Jun 14, 2012)

I use a wood pellet stove. At -8F this year I had to turn down heat as it got to warm. Anything over 66F and I'm turning it down. Heats a 16 X 24 with 9'ceilings and a 10 X 24 loft with 6'6" ceilings. When tep went below ) I left on lowest setting overnight and tem was about 45 in morning. Building is on concrete slab R15 in walls R24 in ceiling and 2" polystyrene in a 6 X 8 rollup garage door.


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## Knothead62 (Apr 17, 2010)

My father and I had a sales rep business for several years. One of our lines was gas IR heaters. We did a study for generating one million BTU's. Here are the results based on costs at that time. The formula went with Dad in 2002.
Natural gas- $6.40
Propane-$7.26
Electric-$24.60


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