# Close to true cyclone performance on a budget.



## JohnGray

Great post!!!! Thanks!!!


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## RyanBrown

I've got my HF dust collector and a trash can. Just have to make up one of these baffles, and get a Wynn 35a and I'll be set!


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## Timbo

Excellent! Thanks for the post and all the good information.


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## SteveMI

I made a smaller version of the Thein for a 1.75" hose and it works great. Using an older craftsman shop vac.

My project is at;
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/19347

These are so cheap and simple to make that anyone not able to build a true pentz cyclone should really consider it. Mine only took a half day of actual work. Building on the spur of the moment caused about three trips to the hardware and big boxes.

Steve.


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## a1Jim

good job


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## dbhost

I wish I could express just how much of a difference going from shop vac, to shop vac / thien, to dust collector with internal thien, to dust collector / Wynn cartridge / thien pre separator makes…

Unfortunately I didn't have the time or resources to build a true Pentz system or buy a Clear Vue. But so much of what Bill talks about makes complete sense engineering wise. While I disagree with some of his numbers based on things some engineer friends of mine have told me, he is close, and the difference is picking nits and not worth arguing. Bill himself says on his site that this setup (although he recommends a neutral vane instead of a pre separator or internal Thien baffle) is at least workable as a bare minimum. And He is how I found out about the Wynn filter.

I must ashamedly admit I was running for a little while with just open doors and a respirator. This was NOT working as the whole garage would have visible dust hanging out for days… My current solution seems to really be working though… My setup is the HF DC / Thien 55 gallon, Ridgid 12 gallon wet / dry vac / HEPA / Thien 20 gallon, and 2 @ 20 inch box fans with the finest filtration filters I could find from 3M / Filtrete at Home Depot duct taped on, and all the way around every opening so as to force the air current through the filters. I am dusting, vacuming, and wet mopping up EVERYTHING that has dust on it. My shop air is visibly cleaner.

I would like to get back to a baseline level, and take a particulate meter reading, and then get after some wood cutting / sanding / plaing / turning operations and take another reading with my DC setup going to see just how well the system works… There is DEFAINETLY room for improvement, but it is well on its way…


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## DannyBoy

There seem to be a few of them on the Thien forum that incorporate their own blowers and dust bags too. I'm guessing you could do a whole setup pipes included that would have pro power but entry level cost. I've got to get my saw running so I can do one of these myself.


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## dbhost

I have seen one that intrigued me. The owner did a direct connection from one of those red HF 1 HP DCs straight to the Thien lid, and then out to a 1 micron bag.

I would imagine using his design, but a stronger blower using 6", and a larger impeller, you could build a donut to hold a filter over a small can in the vein of a true cyclone. Wynn carries LOTS of different filter sizes and styles… The 35A is just the one they came out with that is more or less universal fit for hobbyist woodshop single stage upright collectors.

There is a guy that is on there, as well as Sawmill Creek that has pretty much turned his HF 2HP DC into a dedicated cyclone system this way…


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## spaids

WHERE!!! do you guys find the blue barrels with the buckle lid? MAN I need one of those.


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## dbhost

Baytec Containers in Bacliff Texas 4 miles from my house. The offer reconditioned 55 gallon open head plastic drums which is what I used.

No idea what shipping on these is, but I can imagine it would run a few bucks. I am lucky though. Like I said, they are right down the road from me. The walk in prices are lower than on line, and no shipping. Just have to pay sales tax.

From what I have seen on Ebay, and through other vendors, even paying shipping and the online price at Baytec is cheap by comparison…


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## MikeGager

has anyone compared a thein style baffle with one of the black plastic dust seperators available from rockler/woodcraft/etc?

i made a thein style seperator for my vacuum and it works ok but i cant imagine it works that much better then one of the store bought versions. anyone test it out to see?


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## dbhost

The Thien baffle serves a couple of purposes. Not the least of which is to keep material in the vessel below from getting back into the air stream and in turn getting sucked up into the vac or DC.

A properly built Thien separator should have an extremely high separation rate. There are things that you can do that will cause it to not function exceedingly well. The most common, and one thing I have done incorrectly is to try vacuuming up a large pile of dust / shavings by simply shoving the hose into it. Too fast a feed rate with the debris will overwhelm the ability of the cyclone to separate and the debris and dust goes right to the filter…

If you google Thien Cyclone, and follow the links to Phil's forum, I am pretty sure somebody other than Phil himself has done a comparison test.

If you want to compare efficiencies between the two designs, simply make a lid with an inlet on one side, and an outlet on the other and leave out any sort of baffle.

Woodcraft has one that at least has an elbow and puts the incoming air in a cyclonic motion, but it picks the air back up in the outer edge, where the debris is…










The design of the Rockler unit is a simple into the can out of the can at an angle affair, so the incoming debris laden air just goes in and right out of the can without having a chance to unload.










I'd show the pics of the ones available from Peachtree, but it's the same exact thing offered by Rockler and Woodcraft….

I guess if somebody wanted to, they could do a comparison test, but what's the point? A casual glance and an understanding of the function should tell you which design works best…

I don't recall who makes or sells it, but there is a commercial offering I had seen in one of the Thien forum posts where the lid looks like a molded plastic version of Phil's lid, but without the baffle… Even without the baffle, the thing has to be a huge improvement over the other designs…


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## dbhost

Found it! It is the Jet JW1049









The ONLY source I could find is Woodworkers Supply I have never used them, so I don't know if I should trust them enough to recommend them…

The product looks good though. I wonder if Jet still produces these, or if Woodworkers Supply is just showing NOS, or stuff they can't get anymore…


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## dbhost

Bump to get past the dreaded 13…


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## MikeGager

the problem i have with the thein baffle is when i have a large amount of large shavings they simple dont go down into the can, they swirl around the top of the baffle and get sucked right into the vacuum


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## dbhost

Is your drop slot 1-1/8 to 1-1/4" deep? If your drop slot is too narrow, long shavings won't go…


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## Dustmite97

Looks like a great set-up you got. I think that this is a must-have, especially if you own a planer or a jointer.


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## dbhost

Or a lathe…


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## MLennon

HF Dust Collector arrives today. I'm opting to go with a 30 gallon fiber barrel to save my back when emptying  Otherwise I'm using much of your design. What was your spacing between the container lid and the baffle?


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## dbhost

It's been so long since I built it, I am going to have to out and measure!

For what it's worth, I am giving serious consideration to going back to a baffle in the separator ring on the HF collector. I kind of need the floor space…


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