# Loose Tote on used Stanley No 5



## brtech (May 26, 2010)

Bought a used Stanley No 5 plane from ebay. Decent price, good transaction, and the plane is in pretty good shape although the blade looks like it was sharpened with a hand file!

Anyway, it has a weird problem. The long screw on the tote seems too long - it bottoms out before the handle is tight on the casting. It's only a little loose, but it's loose. The screw has one washer. The small screw seems to work correctly.

It's certainly possible this plane has mismatched parts, but what do I do to fix it? My standard #10 washers fit on the shaft but are too big for the hole. I could cut the screw down, but that doesn't seem right.

This plane will replace a new Groz that I bought in a sale at Woodcraft. Lousy plane, poor castings, poor fit on the frog, adjuster doesn't work right, and on and on. Even with the loose handle, the used Stanley is way ahead of the new Groz.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Are you sure the screw is bottoming out on both the bed of the plane as well as in the brass fitting at the top? It could just be the the threads are a bit messed up and it's not really screwing in all the way on one end or the other.

If that's not the case, it's most likely that someone just replaced the screw at some point with a slightly longer one from another plane. It's also possible that the tote itself was replaced with one that was slightly shorter than the original. Either way, I see no harm in cutting the screw down a bit.


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## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

I agree with Charlie. Keep in mind that Stanley threads are not standard threads. If you cut it take great care.


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

The screw I have is one piece, no brass insert like that on my No 7. Perhaps that's part of the problem. I should be able to cut the screw down, I do that often enough in my armory work.


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## CharlieM1958 (Nov 7, 2006)

Yeah, the problem is that your screw is not the original. Cut it down, and you can always keep an eye on eBay for an original replacement, or just an old junker plane you can steal parts from.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

I have had a couple of those style of bolts. Usually I find one lock washer, AND at least one regular washer under the hean of the bolt. One even had three washers! Take the tote off, but leave the bolt in it, check to see how much of the bolt sticks down below the tote. Consider a washer as another shim.









This is a bolt from a Companion #4 by Stanley. It had a washer under the head of that long bolt. Washers are easier to use than cutting a bolt down. Sometimes the bolt would get too short. Try the washer first.


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

I have cut a few threads off in the past, "chamfer" the edge a bit to make sure the threads are clean and true around where you cut or ground from.


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## WodDawg (Apr 20, 2013)

I bought a Stanley No. 4 off eBay. Great shape. But it has a loose tote. No brass fitting at the top. I read on another forum where a similar problem was had with a No. 3, probably from the tote loosening, and the owner tightening the screw, compressing the wood in the tote.

I thought the thread was a 1/4-20, but then read that Stanley used their own unusual threads. I tried a fender washer underneath, and it snugged it up, but I do not like the look of a shiny washer, plus only supporting it where the washer is, looks like another problem about to happen.

I saw where shortening the screw was a solution, so I may fire up the grinder and bump the screw to it.

Dawg


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## planepassion (Nov 24, 2010)

Loose totes that shift left and right during use are a common problem I have found.

In the past, I've cranked down the brass nut so that it is extremely tight. Sometimes that worked. But I found out (the hard way) that over tightening nuts like that can crack the rosewood tote clean in half. So I don't do that anymore.

I've also tried filing the tote bolt. But again, I've still had to put a lot of torque on the nut to secure the tote. I don't like altering the original bolt either, so I don't do that any more.

Instead, I borrowed a trick from Paul Sellers. He uses rubberized kitchen shelf paper. And I like his solution a lot because I can use "normal" torque on the nut. In use, it holds the tote firm-no back and forth movement. And I don't worry any more about cracking totes. Here's Paul's picture.










Simply cut holes for the "front tote nib" or screw hole. Then cut out material to accommodate the large seating nib to the rear of the tote. For aesthetic reasons, I trim the shim so that I can't see it.


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## bluplanet (Feb 10, 2011)

Sometimes problems like this can be caused by the plane being used for a long time with a loose screw. 
The wobbling and twisting tote would not wear evenly on the bottom against the bed. The perimeter of the tote would wear faster because of pressure from wobbling. Another issue is that the previous owner may have lost the washer. The washer prevents wear on the top end of the tote when the screw is tightened. With no washer, the counterbore in the top would wear deeper when the screw is tightened.
So the first thing is to make sure the tote sits flat on the bed with no wobble when there's no screw in it.
You might have to dress the bottom of the tote to get a good fit. Of course, that might make the tote even looser when the screw is tight. 
You might have to add extra washers.
But if the counterbore is worn too deep, you can repair it with epoxy and re-drill and re-counterbore it.


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## anneb3 (Feb 23, 2014)

Just happen to have some of that rubberized kitchen shelf stuff sitting around taking up space.
I have read enough about Stanley's weird threads to know not to fiddle with them.


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

Brad that's great stuff via Mr. Sellers, thanks.


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## sksk (Feb 2, 2015)

> Loose totes that shift left and right during use are a common problem I have found.
> 
> In the past, I ve cranked down the brass nut so that it is extremely tight. Sometimes that worked. But I found out (the hard way) that over tightening nuts like that can crack the rosewood tote clean in half. So I don t do that anymore.
> 
> ...


I like the shelf liner as shim trick. I'll look forward to trying it.

While it seems spooky to shorten the threaded rod, if you take a minimum of care it's pretty straight forward. Brass is fairly forgiving if you use a very light touch.

I've done this several times and helped others to do the same. I've never seen one get fouled up. The one caveat I would give is that if you know you tend to be less-than-subtle with a grinding wheel (or don't have access to a low-speed one with a recently dressed wheel) I would reccomend hand filing the threaded rod.

My (admittedly limited) experience with this leaves me feeling like getting the length of this rod correctly tweaked can reduce stress on the tote and make (to my perception) a large difference in the tactile "feedback" of the plane.


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