# Not a fan of Sketch up



## HolzMechanikerUSA (Jan 15, 2011)

I am done with sketch up, I cannot deal with the 3-D drawing.

So is there a Program that lets one draw exclusively in 2-d other than busting out pencil and paper?


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## peterrum (Jan 24, 2011)

Sketchup lets you draw in 2D as well.


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## Greedo (Apr 18, 2010)

i think that in the older cad versions you only draw in 2d.
but 3d is a vast improvement if your asking me! sketchup is by far the most easy to use 2d or 3d program i have used.

and as peter said, you can set sketchup to be in 2d, either by setting the view in paralel projection and then working with the viewport buttons for front, side, up, etc views.


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## Yupa4242 (Apr 12, 2011)

Sketch Up Is a proven tool that works but it has a high learning curve and even for me after months trying to master the basics I get fed up. That was until i bought at Woodcraft a a 2 part DVD Shop Class with Robert W. Lang "Sketch Up For Woodworkers Part1: Getting Started" is the one i own and it has 2 hours of basic intro to this 3d program. Sells for 29.95

The editors at Woodsmith Shop swear by the product and use it's program to print the SHop Notes books we all love.


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## bubinga (Feb 5, 2011)

Here is a link to Sketch Up For Woodworkers, NOT affiliated with Robert W. Lang 
http://sketchupforwoodworkers.com/tutorials/2009/01/29/getting-started-part-1


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## brianlee (Apr 13, 2011)

If I want to draw just 2d, I use Adobe Illustrator. However, if you don't want to pay the big bucks for Illustrator (or if you can't get the educator/student discount), there is an open source program called Inkscape that's not too bad. I have been using Illustrator for about 20 years now and was rather surprised with Inkscape's capabilities. It even has a few features that Illustrator doesn't. Open source programs have really come a long way in recent years. The only drawback to Inkscape is that it doesn't have positioning abilities that Illustrator has. I can position an object using it's center, edge, corner or vertex with Illustrator, but Inkscape uses only the objects center. That's a big handicap for Inkscape. 
I have nothing against SketchUp. I use it all the time, but since your question was for a dedicated 2d program, I thought I would add my 2cents.

BrianLee


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## HolzMechanikerUSA (Jan 15, 2011)

Hmmm I will give inkscape a try. if that doesn't do what I want, time to get my old drafting board.


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## bubinga (Feb 5, 2011)

Thanks , to all , for the info


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## donjohn24 (Oct 15, 2010)

If you could bear to have one more try with Sketchup, I would recommend Swamp Road Woodworks tutorials at http://www.srww.com/google-sketchup.htm. They are produced by Joseph P. Zeh, a cabinetmaker, are excellent and show the occasional errors and corrections as he does a working demonstration of how each task is performed on a typical *woodworking* project. I actually left my PC to download each tutorial so that I could get on with other things, and then view/review the lessons when convenient.

I had also tried Sketchup previously and given up a couple of times, but watching these tutorials enabled me to get the program working well. The breakthrough for me was the idea of making each solid object a component, so that other parts could be drawn and moved without them attaching themselves to something already drawn. Putting the components on their own layers also meant that they could be displayed or hidden as required. The 'overhead' in creating components on layers seems tedious at first, but soon becomes second nature and takes only seconds, but gives enormous benefits - in my opinion.


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## davidmw (Feb 9, 2011)

I've used Delta Cad a fair amount (http://www.deltacad.com/), it's easy to use and sounds like it might work for you. Pretty cheap too, you can probably even find it cheaper on ebay.


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## DLCW (Feb 18, 2011)

Andrew,

I've been taking the Swamp Road Woodworks tutorials and they are VERY good. I feel much better about using Sketchup now then I ever did. In addition to Sketchup I use TurboCAD and eCabinets (cabinet design).


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## ssflyer (Aug 26, 2009)

Dassault Systems, the makers of SolidEdge, now have an excellent FREE, 2D CAD program. It is called DraftSight. It is available at http://www.3ds.com/products/draftsight/free-cad-software/
Of course, like pretty much any CAD prgram, there is a learning curve.


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## woodworksbyjohn (Jan 11, 2011)

Don't laugh but I too have tried various programs through the years and here's my final solution to it all:










You'll notice the Vemco arm, left handed at that. I know the advantage of computer programs that allow you to make changes without having to do the drawing all over but for me, drawing the project manually lets me "build it in my mind" which I find saves a lot of time in the shop. Of course, I can't rotate, add textures and shading, but in the end, this is what works for me.
This desk is made of Andirobe and spalted Maple. The area below is where I keep my reference books. Being able to stand up and work is a big plus for me as well.


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

Just FWIW, I found Sketchup to be painfully easy to learn, but then again I have a LOT of training in drawing, drafting, and computer aided design, and illustration. So it was easy for me… Perhaps you need to take a class or two…


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## davidmw (Feb 9, 2011)

For all the people using sketchup, are you using the free or paid version? From what I've seen you need to full version to do things like assemblies, drawings, etc, things that I personally couldn't do without. (http://sketchup.google.com/product/whygopro.html)

Personally I use Pro/Engineer or occasionally solidworks. I have access to both through work so I don't have to pay the $5k per license. The learning curve would be pretty steep if I didn't already log 1500 hours a year with them at work.

By far, however, the most useful tool I have is a $2 drafting notebook, doesn't even require a computer


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

I quit on it several times until getting Sketchup for Dummies by Adrian Chopra. Between the book and his online videos I am no at least capable. As Don pointed out "The breakthrough for me was the idea of making each solid object a component" cannot be said enough. I'm going to get the Lang DVD and check out the web links.

John - that is one nice drafting table, but how do you fit "E" size drawings?

Steve.


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## woodworksbyjohn (Jan 11, 2011)

Hi Steve, I keep the drawing size to 18" x 24" and use vellum so that I can make copies at Kinkos/FedEx. I'm sure that if the economy gave me tons of work I may go to the computer programs but being a small, one man shop I haven't found the need yet. I know, the word dinosaur may apply but I'm content. I do my drawings primarily to scale the piece and give my client an over-all picture. For working out construction details and joinery I like to do them full size on graph paper. I like your concept of "breaking it down to components" which really makes sense but it's not intuitive for me.
It brings to mind the saying about how there are many ways to accomplish the same thing, you know "more than one way to skin a cat". Should have seen the controversy that saying brings about in a class of 13-18 year olds!


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## Racer2007 (Jan 13, 2011)

I agree that for some of us the 3D is a bit tough to grasp at first but these sites provided by others have helped me a lot and I love the program now. For me the Swamproad site was best because Joe even responded very quickly to e-mails with answers that got me over some of my problem areas. Free and Quick Tech support is always great to find but not very often found. And you can download the files for offline use as well from both sites.
So Joe if you see this posting , Thanks again for the help.

http://www.srww.com/google-sketchup.htm
http://sketchupforwoodworkers.com/tutorials/2009/01/29/getting-started-part-1


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

John - Dinosaur? In my first real job assignment I inherited responsibility for the "drawings" of some simple parts. The drawings were in both a "blueprint" on vellum format which had to be printed with an ammonia process and a couple actual thin metal prints that were real antiques. Not sure how the metal ones were actually "printed."

Steve.


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## levan (Mar 30, 2010)

If you want just a simple 2d cad program, I use auto desk quick cad program at home. It is reasonable at about $40 and I found it easy to learn and thats amazing. I got mine at office supply.


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## MikeGager (Jun 15, 2009)

i found sketchup incredibly easy to learn. i have background in microstation and autocad 2D drawing.


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## Brad_Nailor (Jul 26, 2007)

The free version (Google Sketchup) is almost exactly the same as the paid for Pro version. There are very few differences, none of which should prevent anyone from building the most complex, multi layered objects your imagination could dream up. I have been using SU since before they were acquired by Google..pre release 3, and they are up to 8 now. I thought compared to Solidworks, and AutoCAD the SU user interface and tool set is really easy to use and understand. The guides and snap points are intuitive, and with a few add ons and ruby scripts it can be a powerful 3D visualization and rendering tool as well as an accurate 2D plan creation suite. I guess based on my interest in drafting since I was in jr high, and the fact that I am an AutoCAD drafter for a living…. I might have had a slight edge in comprehension, but there are so many free tools, and tutorials out there that I find it hard to believe there are so many people that cant figure it out. When I first discovered SU, the one thing I did to get better at it besides watch videos was to just play around with it..get familiar with how the tool set functions…how the snap points work..using the colored axis markers to make sure your drawing in the correct plane. Don't get frustrated..take your time and above all start small..dont try to draw something complex until you have a good grasp on the software, or your just going to get frustrated and give up. What exactly is everyone finding really difficult to understand about the software? Maybe I can help turn on a few light bulbs..
Drawn in free Google Sketchup, some rendered with SU Podium


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## Nollie (Oct 9, 2010)

I am not very computer literate, but it was not that difficult to learn. I made use of Fine Woodworking's blog, Design Click Build. If i wanted to do something fancy in my design i would send a e-mail to one of there editors and the next thing would be a new tutorial Good Luck


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## DLCW (Feb 18, 2011)

David,

Your drawings are really good. How did you get the photo put onto the first drawing? I'm working on designing a fireplace mantle for a customer and have some 3D carving models that I can create JPG previews of. I want to "put" these JPG preview images into the SU drawing of the mantle.

TIA,

Don


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## Mobius (Apr 24, 2011)

I personally LOVE SketchUp, but then again my motto is "overplan, underbuild" which only works on the design side of the project.

If any of you want to see your project in 3d but either don't have the patience or access to use the software, I'm more than happy to help. I enjoy the challenge, and it gives me a chance to do something I might not ordinarily do with SketchUp.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

I, unlike many here, love AutoCad. I have used it almost daily since 1984.

But, it is far from affordable. A legal copy of Autocad will set you back enough to equip a full shop with Powermatic tools. Well, maybe that's exaggerating a little, but over $3000 anyway.

I found a good solution in a program called Cadopia. It's a reverse engineered version of Autocad. It was written by some of the folks that created the database file format that Autocad drawings are saved in. The company was owned for a while by Intellicad, the folks who created Visio. The standard version of Cadopia can be tried for free. Then you can purchase if you like it for less than $350.


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## veneerguy (May 11, 2011)

Try Cobalt from Ashlar Vellum. Graphite is the 2d program.


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## Pop (Aug 6, 2007)

SteveMI, Would you believe that my 1st. drafting job was in 1960 at the Virginia State Highway Dept. We were still working on linen in ink. I was at the time also introduced to the LeRoy. And you thought you were a dinosaur.

Pop


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## Pop (Aug 6, 2007)

I use a computer to do my graphic design work, but when it comes to plans it's back to the board & square.

I too hate 3D drawing.

Pop


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## SteveMI (May 19, 2009)

"SteveMI, Would you believe that my 1st. drafting job was in 1960 at the Virginia State Highway Dept. We were still working on linen in ink. I was at the time also introduced to the LeRoy. And you thought you were a dinosaur."

I am impressed you remembered the name of the machine, I didn't until you wrote it.

Steve.


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## Pop (Aug 6, 2007)

Gosh Steve, My last drafting job was with an engineering company in the 70s, and we were still using the K&E LeRoy system. I got so fast I could LeRoy as fast as I could hand letter. I had my own set until 3 or 4 years ago when I sold it on E-Bay. I wish I had it back.

Pop


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

The advantage of pro is DXF output.

One thing to keep in mind is that Google has a very generous educator discount program. If you are a student or a teacher, you can get Pro cheap (free). You need verifiable credentials.

While I like it a lot, I still am frustrated. For example, one of my frustrations turns out to really be a limitation. I wanted to create an array of countersunk holes, had a bunch of folks look at it, and the best solution really turned into more work than doing 100+ holes one at a time. Another is that the mouse UI really is designed for Windows, and I have a Mac, I can't get pan/zoom without switching tools. I am definitely still learning, and won't give up until I get it all.


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## rance (Sep 30, 2009)

Sometimes folks think just because some piece of software is free, then it must be so intuitive that you don't need any instruction at all. I've been using SU for 2-3 years and I still find tutorials and posts here on LJ that I can learn from. There's nothing like an in-person instructional introduction to get you over the hump. Hope you find something that gets you where you want to go.


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## Yupa4242 (Apr 12, 2011)

I tried sketch up again only to have forgotten the whole tutorial from last time I was on good grief…. I need a good back up drive for my brain lol


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

I received training in Autocad and it was just a matter of working at it day in and day out before my brain finally embrased it. I'm sure it's the same with sketch up or any other CAD program. Keep at it. Persistance will pay off.


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## Sawkerf (Dec 31, 2009)

Andrew -

It sounds like you've hit the proverbial wall with Sketchup. FWIW, I've hit the same wall with three different CAD programs over the years. You can get past it if you'll just drop back a bit, re-read the manual, and review a couple of tutorials on whatever you're trying to do. That's always worked for me.

The most difficult program to learn (of any type) is the first one you try. After that, it's mostly figuring out how to do something in the latest program that you could easily do in a previous one.


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