# Freezing Floor Drain



## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

I am calling on the brain trust….I know that we have an extrodinary diverse group of professionals and retired professionals here and I need some help in my shop with the floor drain.

First I live in Iowa, it was -5 last night. The guy that built my shop/garage installed a floor drain that simply drains out behind my shop with a PVC pipe just above/touching the ground. It freezes at the end and the drain backs up….we park out cars in there and it creates a large pond, which I then open up the pipe with a long drill ( one of those 4 foot Milwaukee bendable bits). But it is a PITA.

I recently found out about band heaters….Can I put one around the exsisting PVC? It would be in the snow….maybe even touching the ground….they appear to be kind of hot..is that ok? I really don't want to use heat tape…
I can wait until this summer to install it, Can anyone give me an idea of what to do?
Thanks in advance
Mike


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

Maybe for now throw some salt down the drain. Comes Spring, dig the pvc down deeper, may 3' and dig a large hole around it and fill most of with gravel to allow for drainage.


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

Thanks mrjinx--I tried the salt thing, mulitple times, and the PVC is buried in the concrete until it emerges from the wall..it then proturdes out a foot or so right above the ground…..


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

Ahhhh, then look up Shaver wood boiler; they have these insulation tubes that withstand up to 20 below, I think.

They use it on their water pipe as it exits the broiler and goes in the ground. Another option, comes Spring, run a water hose or pressure washer under the slab to create an opening toward the drain and re install the pipe under the foundation. 
http://www.shaver-woodfurnace.com/


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

thanks..
mike


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## REO (Sep 20, 2012)

why not a heat tape?


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

You could also use a gutter heater. Basically it's just a long waterproof wire you can weave through the gutter supports and along the bottom of the gutter to keep it from freezing. They're designed to be powered all the time and I don't believe they pull much current. That might work for you if you could fish it down the drain to where it exits.


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

I use heat tape during the winter to keep my fig trees alive, rain, ice, snow doesn't bother it. Another solution could be to make a box that goes around the pipe, it can sit on the ground. Cut it in half, grease the pipe good, after putting the box on top of the pipe, tape the two halves together and fill the inside with "great stuff" foam spray. Use a knife to cut the foam in half like the box so it can be used as an insulation around the pine during winter months.


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

If it's draining well then it shouldn't freeze. Is it possible that the water is trickling out slowly allowing it to freeze because there is a possible blockage in the pipe? Maybe a small, old animal nest? I'd run a long snake through the pipe to see if it clears out, or run water with a hose through it to see if it runs out fast. If it doesn't an that's the problem then clear it out and put a flap over it. Don't put a screen cap as junk from the garage that goes into it will build up in the screen. Then you'll really have a blockage. A flap, sort of like the type use for dryers is what I mean.

Also, if blocked, a pan of hot water should do the trick unless the blockage is really big. I live in Maine so I also have some experience with this type of stuff.

If it's a blockage I'll bet this is what it is.. from experience. Sand from the garage floor built up a layer in the bottom of the pipe. water soaks up in the sand and has time to freeze. From there it builds up in layers over time. The smaller the pipe the faster it will freeze. It should be 3" or larger.


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

Wow…two great Ideas…Thanks!!!! I maybe could use the gutter heater and box together!!!
Mike


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## henryj383 (Jan 2, 2009)

I had a drain pipe that came out of my heat & a/c unit, we had a 17 degree day or two and the heat stopped working. I called my A/C people the guy that came out said I see what is wrong, the pipe goes out to far from the building and has time to freeze. So he just cut the pipe off to about two" from the wall then dug a hole in the earth with my post hole diggers 8" X 12" so the water would run out of the pipe and not back up before it froze up. He then covered the pipe that was outside the wall with pipe insulation. All I can say is it worked, I did put a big yellow bucket / with a big rock over the whole thing just to keep the wind off.
When the guy started to leave, I said where do you live "Bob" he said well I just moved to SC. but I lived in Iowa all my life.
Hope this helps


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

Craftsman…
I think it is 2 1/2" PVC…I think the problem is it is ever so slightly up hill or level and there is almost no water running through it, I think it builds up in there over the winter. I usually only have to clear it out about this time of year and maybe once more…...I will wait until spring and blow it out from the inside using pressure and hopefully it will clear out anything in there.

I have tried the hot water thing and it really doesn't work for me….with the "pond" there, there is a significant amount of water there.
All great suggestions….thank you all
Mike


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

Thanks Henry,
I gave serious coonsideration this fall to cutting the pvc off flush and digging a 36" hole striaght down and elbowing a pipe straight down to a little gravel, but if it did not work I could not get at it to fix it…so I gave that idea up.
Thanks though…maybe I'm too conservative…
Mike


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## bullhead1 (Mar 29, 2012)

Why not use a funnel to get the hot water to the bottom of the drain so it doesn't get diluted right away by the standing water? Like one of the funnels with a long stem used to add oil to your car.
If you have propane torch maybe try heating the water that is ponded up at the drain.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

Park your cars outside until spring.


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## oxyoke (Dec 15, 2011)

You could use a tee with a cap instead of elbow to get your pipe in the ground At 36'' deep filled stone The ground heat should keep from freezing.ground temp I think is 56 degrees farinheight .Can you spell ferinhight.


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## bbc557ci (Sep 20, 2012)

Post #5,,,what REO said.

Just snake heat tape down the length of the pipe. Cheap and tawdry, but no reason it shouldn't work.


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## changeoffocus (Dec 21, 2013)

It's hard to beat all the answers that are offered on a post, a sign that LJ's are a caring lot. 
The gutter heater is probably a good choice as it resides inside the pipe, PVC is not good conductor of heat so heat tapes are ineffective. 
Getting the pipe below the frost line is key to a permanent fix as already stated.
You can dump poly propylene antifreeze in the drains but not ethylene glycol. 
If you can't keep them open then plug drains until spring( if it ever comes) and squeegee the mess out the door. 
I personally would open up the floor under the car areas and install trench drains that would serve as a sump until you can fix it right. 
I'm in Indiana and my drains go to sanitary sewer by code. 
Parking outside, however practical the solution totally sucks, my heated garage is one my greatest luxuries.


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## TheGermanJoiner (Dec 1, 2013)

+1 on the gutter heater. Grain get sells them and they're pretty efficient


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## Kryptic (Nov 8, 2013)

im with bondopogosis

park it outside till spring


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## REO (Sep 20, 2012)

I was hoping to get the reason "why not a heat tape?" although Pvc is not a good thermal conductor it is still possible to successfully heat tape it. many heat tapes use a thermostat that has to be outside in order to work. In that case they would have to be plugged in outside. There are heat tapes that self regulate with no thermostat these could be plugged in inside but I do not believe that they are rated for submerged use(in the pipe). gutter heat tapes require an outside thermostat. most heat tapes and gutter tapes do not allow the tape to cross over itself. there are those that can be installed wrapped over them selves. It all depends on application. I believe you best bet would be a self regulating tape wrapped around the outside of the pipe. next summer dig back under the main pipe and install a closed end 1/2" pipe under the main drain and then where the pipe extends lay the tape in three turns UNDER the pipe and tape in place with electrical tape. then cover the tape and the pipe you have with a larger diameter pipe and foam the ends closed. once the foam has set dress it off nice with a knife and sandpaper and seal the foam with some super elastic silastic plastic. (uv rated silicone). I have seen frostex heat tape go for over 20 years. be sure the plug connector is supported out of the water on a stake or on the wall.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Mike … Can't help on this one other than to let you know you are not alone.

Winter here in Wisconsin has been so severe that we have to let a faucet run (tiny stream) 24 hours a day to keep the water supply pipes from freezing.

Our township has a water utility that requires pipes to be buried 54 inches or deeper, but the frost is going into the ground so far the supply lines are freezing.


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## Kryptic (Nov 8, 2013)

why not dig the hole even deeper, like below maximum frost levels, and let it drain into field tile or city storm sewers or a rendition there of ?

I am biased in my opinion of course, as the outside world is frozen and a little leaky mr freezy would cause me little concern


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## moke (Oct 19, 2010)

Wow,
What a bunch of awesome ideas….many are just common sense, but I guess I must not have that much sense, because I never thought of most of them. I appreciate everyones time they took to respond.

Just a couple things, when my wife and I were married…way back when Moses had short hair, we lived in a mobile home. It burnt and the Fire Dept said it was the heat tape…..so I have a mistrust for it….granted that was a long time ago and it was old then, I'm sure that is has been improved, but I would like to avoid it as much as possible. I like the fixes suggested, I think the answer should be made a permanent as possible so I am leaning towards digging down putting a "T" like Oxyoke suggested. I could put a cap on the end and not glue it, so I could remove it…..I could build a cover as Mr Jinx suggested. For now I think I will try the gutter heater after I get it open. I will heat up the water with a torch and force warm water down the hole with the funnel as Bull Head suggested to get it opened, as a last resort I can use my drill to drill through the ice if need be.

Thanks to all for the great suggestions and getting me out of this "pickle". While I know the gutter tape is just another version of heat tape, I feel better about it. As far as leaving the cars out, I convinced my wife many years ago to leave the garage at 50 degrees so the snow melts from her vehicle…I am afraid if I told her we had to park outside I would loose what little manhood I left!!! 
Thanks again, 
Mike


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

The heat tape might melt the PVC? If it is not completely enclosed in the slab, that might cause ruble with water under it depending on your soil type.


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## REO (Sep 20, 2012)

Moke I have seen Mobe fires caused by heat tapes. They have always been damaged in some way or poorly installed. I have never seen a heat tape melt PVC as the heat tapes are not designed to get that warm. The major cause of waste line freeze is a toilet flapper leaking. the next is a leaky faucet and the third is self imposed by the customer running a trickle of water to keep the pipes from freezing! if you do have to trickle water be sure you flush the drain at least once an hour with hot water if it is susceptible to freezing. The trouble is that the small volume of water does not have enough heat to carry through the waste pipe without freezing itself. I started using frostex in the early eighties for mobile homes. some of the mobile homes I installed are being taken out but the heat tape on the supply lines is still functioning! check to be sure the gutter tape is rated for immersion! if you plan tor run on the inside of the pipe some are some are rated only for temporary immersion.


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