# Hand Planes: Flat Sole vs. Corrugated



## Crickett (May 7, 2014)

I consider myself a bit of a hybrid worker and recently discovered as awesome antique tool dealer close to my house who has some older hand planes. It's always been my opinion that the heart of a good plane is in the blade (good metalurgy, sharpening techniques, and of course how you use it) rather than the body casting. I know I can flatten any sole, so my question is whether to fork up the money for a Lie-Nielsen with a flat sole, or does the corrugated sole of older planes really reduce friction? Paying to have nicce cherry/mahogany/maple handles to me is not important as a plane is simply a utility tool. I'm from the camp that a well fitted Hock blade can turn any plane into a gem.


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## Ripthorn (Mar 24, 2010)

Corrugated or not, I have not found a large difference. I have both and like both, but as long as the sole is true, I say use what you've got. I own one premium plane, and it is a Veritas low angle block. Absolutely love it, also love my old Stanleys.


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## Crickett (May 7, 2014)

Do you happen to notice less tearout with a solid surface sole than a corrugated sole b/c with a solid face you'd have equal pressure throughout the cut?


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

I've use a plane with a corrugated sole and really didn't notice much difference from a friction standpoint. I did notice that when getting into tricky grain it was more difficult to hold the plane at a skew angle as the corrugations tended to guide the plane in a longitudinal direction only as it rode over the high spots which was annoying. I won't buy one that I plan on using regularly.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Doesn't matter much. Lie Nielsen's are very well made though
and will be a lot flatter than just about any vintage plane you'll
find. Flattening a plane sole can be pretty tedious. There's 
a fellow here, UnBob I think, who has some pithy insights about
how to get an old plane real flat.

I think corrugated soles work better on pitchy woods like pine.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

I have both flat and corrugated in my Stanley collection (all users), and don't see a big difference in the functionality.
Bill


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## Deycart (Mar 21, 2012)

The only time Corrugated sucks is when you are trying to plane an edge that is less than 1/2". Tends to tilt over in to a groove.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Skewing the plane solves that, daycare.

Flat is overrated when it comes to the soles of bench planes. So are premium irons in vintage planes.

Regarding corrugated, the only problem (and it's a mild one) I have with them is when sighting the iron. Harder to see the edge project when the plane is inverted with a C casting. Not impossible, just need to concentrate a bit more. Oh, and they're easier to flatten if you're so moved because there's less surface area to work up (or off).


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

I have three jack planes, one of which is a "c" model. Not the slightest difference between them. I had two #6s , one was a smooth sole the other not. On the panels I planed with them, I liked ( and kept) the c model.

Flatten a jack plane's sole? Come on…..it is a JACK plane. For taking things down to a almost flat level, before a smooth plane takes over. As long as it doesn't rock on a surface like your benchtop. use it.

Hock blades might be nise to start out….until you have to sharpen them back up. Vintage irons are way easier to sharpen than these newer "Boutique" irons. And YES, YOU WILL NEED to learn the HOW TO SHARPEN an iron tricks. ALL irons get a bit dull after use.

A sole that is 0.00001" flat? BFD! You are working across a wood surface. it has dips, and high spots. It will move as the weather changes. You are working on a piece of wood, NOT making a "High Precision Metal Object.

Two myths: "I have to buy an after-market iron to make my plane work" and.."I need the sole of my plane to be perfectly flat to use it" Yep…MYTHS.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I'm with deycart. I would rather have a smooth jointer. And although I agree with Smitty, I find skewing a jointer when jointing difficult to skew and keep square. But then I can't chew gum and walk a straight line either. With all that said, my jointer is corrugated and works just fine. Its what I found, its tuned to my liking so its never been replaced.

As for LN or vintage? I'll let you look through my post and guess.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

To me, the key here is the chipper and blade. While the old planes (I have ~20) can be sharpened to the nth degree, they are made with rather thin gauge steel. They tend to chatter on difficult wood. The newer iron hand planes take advantage of all those old "lessons learned" over the past +100yr and have thicker gauge blades and chippers. This helps reduced/eliminate chatter when in use. Chatter will ruin your day quickly ;-).

Suggestion if going "new" and do not want to break the bank, check out the WoodRiver hand planes (WoodCraft).


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## Deycart (Mar 21, 2012)

I can get the board square in a few strokes with the plane straight, but when I skew, it is very hard to get the boards square.


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

Ha! the eye opener for me was trying a friends LN hand planes.
Oh well, I cant spend several thousands for a set of those, but I did buy 2 complete sets of the Bailey type "No 3 to No 8" for less then the price of a single LN hand plane.

If possible I would suggest trying a LN plane.
They say, the soles are flat to 1/2 of one thousand of an inch. I found with those and the sole being flat, they don't rock as the surface being worked becomes flatter. They don't leave edge tracks from rocking side to side making chamfering the blade edges not needed.
The Bailey planes are generally pretty bad, having twist and warp. But good results can still be had with most, one just has to work at it more. Some call that technique!
With a truly flat and well tuned plane, straight even strokes will get a surface flat, little or no technique.
Sanding the soles of old planes does help, but on a surface that is wider then the plane, the plane will rock a little due to sanding works the edges of the sole more, making them convex.

This is how and why I use hand planes.
I use machines to break the wood down to usable size, but as noted, wood warps after a short time.
If I am gluing up edges, I will re-straighten the edges with just a few strokes of a jointer plane right at the time. The true running plane does that very quick and leaves a surface smoother then my machines can. At times totally invisible glue lines, very nice.
I am leaning more and more to finish scraping the wood, seems to give some woods more of a glow, then sanding.
There, a really good working smoothing plane saves considerable time.

On the C type soles, I cant say they work better or worse, but they take more time to hand scrape flat " look up machine way scraping" for info on that process to make a metal surface flat.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Sigh…..

Maybe put it on a TV show? No, wait, there is one already…...Mythbusters…LOL


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## ClintSearl (Dec 8, 2011)

I like bandit571's attitude. (post#8)


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

Oops one of those 1/16" is good enough wood workers, or perhaps one of those trying to pawn off restored hand planes experts.
Actually, it doesnt matter to me at all, see, I do not offer this as a service, but I can show what a truly precision plane looks like.









Its not hard to do, but is time consuming, myself its well worth the effort.
There is a discussion on the practical machinist web site on hand scraping hand planes flat, its a problem that is solved on the metal working end of things. Well they are a metal object after all.


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## lateralus819 (Mar 24, 2013)

In regards to Lie nielsen, they are worth every Penny. A lot of people won't agree, but a lot of people who don't probably havn't used them. I like my soles as flat as possible, But i don't go insane trying to get there.

It's not to say a vintage CAN'T perform, as i have a #606 that is just as good, plus others. There is just something about using a finely crafted tool, it's a lot more then the performance. My 2 cents.


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## unbob (Mar 10, 2013)

The lazy are always calling the ones that get off their ass and get it done insane.
It will always be that way.


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

Finely crafted tools, whether wood working or metal working are a joy to use, but as far as an absolute in wood working, have minimal benefits.
My #3, #4C, #5 1/2, and #7 have provided all the basic planning I've needed.
That said, I've have a chest of wooden molding planes used for specific jobs.
My thoughts…......:
Find one that works and use it/them.
Bill


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## BigRedKnothead (Dec 21, 2012)

Take it all with a grain of salt I guess.

Nevermind…..I need to take a break from LJs.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

"The lazy are always calling the ones that get off their ass and get it done insane."

^unbob, demonstrating Sawstop-level passion on behalf of hand-scraping handplanes. Excellent!


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

I've restored somewhere around a gazillion hand planes. I own both LN and Veritas planes and have a few hock irons. Some vintage irons are just as good and some are not even close.

So pick your poison. LN are worth every penny. And a good vintage is worth every minute you'll have into it. If the existing iron fits your need, keep it. if not buy an after market. Although I don't agree you need to scrap a plane, I understand the passion.

They all will do the job. Its more about your personality then the tool.


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## TerryDowning (Aug 8, 2012)

And to think, Items like this were constructed before cast iron planes even existed.

The Golden Age of French Furniture in the Eighteenth Century

I seriously doubt the masters responsible for these items were worrying about how many thousandths of an inch their hand planes were out of flat.

Back to the OP. Flat or corrugated really is just a matter of opinion/preference. I have both and don't see a noticeable difference between the two.

The heart of a good plane is the support for the properly sharpened blade. The bedding on wood bodies, the frog on metal planes. (I suspect that LN Planes are superior performers not solely because of the flatness of the sole but the same exacting casting and machining process is used on their bedrock style frogs) You can use the best sharpest blade on the cheapest stamped steel frog and the performance will not be that good.

Conversely, I get great performance out of a $3 Buck Bros. Iron (Thanks for the tip bandit). I had to spend time sharpening it but on my MF No. 9 (smooth plane) it performs beautifully. Thanks to the great frog on that plane. Does it perform as nicely as LN #4? I don't know. I don't have one to compare against. Did it leave a beautifully flat satiny surface on some very highly figured and knotty plum wood? It sure did, I did sand it with some 220 to roughen the surface so the shellac took better to it.

After the frog is the mouth, this is what reduces tear out the most. Lots of great books out there on the mechanics of planes and how they work. But n general the tighter the mouth, the less tear out you will experience. Reducing tearout has very little to do with the flatness of the sole but rather the cutting geometry established on the blade, the grain direction of the wood being planed, the configuration of the mouth, and of course, the skill and knowledge of the woodworker.

Just my thoughts and opinions on the matter.

Whether or not you should spend the money on Lie-Nielsen or Hock or whoever that is entirely up to you. It's your money spend it how you see fit.

(BTW and FWIW If I could justify the expense to myself, I would purchase a Lie-Nielsen or Lee Valley/Veritas in a heartbeat. Not because I need but because they are cool and I do want some. However for the type of Woodworking I do and the fact that I don't earn any money at it I just can't justify it right now.)


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## widdle (Mar 10, 2010)

i like em all…I do have some difficulty getting the older, twisted stanley blades to sit flat on the frog…it personally takes me a couple hours to dial in most of the vintage blades, and really don't enjoy that process any more,soo i have gone the hock route a few times..all good..


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## lateralus819 (Mar 24, 2013)

Love dons post. Totally agree. I love restoring planes and getting them to perform as good as possible. I still reach for my Vintage planes all the time.


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

I find corrugated planes are a little easier to push on soft or pitch filled woods, but provide almost no difference in hardwoods. The corrugated planes are tougher to keep angled on a skew cut, especially the longer #6-#7. So I skew cut with flat bottom planes only. The grooves also seem to collect pieces of semi-dry glue, and I don't recommend using them for freshly glued up panel smoothing.

The old Stanley .vs. new LN or LV planes is horrible debate to start in a forum. It all usually boils down to a personal choice which only you can make, AFTER you have some experience with each one.

FWIW - I like and have both types. With a thicker A2 blade, the old Stanley will do the same work as the new spiffy LN or LV. Although in chasing old Stanley iron at flea markets, I found I prefer the heavier weight of the thicker castings found on the later produced type 18/19 planes. These "newer" Stanley planes also usually can be found with less rust to rehab, less play in the blade height adjuster and lever cap; which makes them act/feel just like a cast iron LN plane.

YMMV


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Well, since I have one each handy, and a Mystery Wood Test track, decided to try each out. Track is just a short 1×1, not sure what wood it is. Rested it against the stop, and tried a few swipes.









Not sure if this IS a fair test, though. That is a Sargent #414 T4 with the original iron, and a cambered one at that. Grooved sole, too. Tried to skew…no problem, even seemed to like it. Next up (hide your eyes Mildred)









The Infamous FranckenBailey #5. Smooth sole. Has a Home Depot $3 buck brothers iron, with the edge square, and straight. Not much diffeence, really.

The ONLY one I found with these two, was when I waxed the soles. The wax would just hide down in the grooves. Test track was too short to try the DE6c on it. DE6c has a Berg iron, with that "Shark" stamp. Not a bad iron, either…


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

The soles of planes are usually flat to within .0001". That is because the surface grinder that grinds it is adjustable to .0001" increments. This would be very difficult to accomplish at home using a flat plate and silicon carbide paper. There aren't many surfaces around home that are that flat. The cast iron saw top ? No where close.


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