# TiteBond II for Pen Blanks



## LakelandDave (Dec 25, 2009)

Please comment on my recent experiment with gluing tubes into wood blanks. In the future, I plan to use Titebond Polyurethane for this purpose, but since I'd had mixed results using Epoxy and 'Super Glue' I decided to experiment with Titebond II. My blank of Marblewood was cut perpendicular to the grain, and it was- shop stabilized by soaking in 'Sanding Sealer' and then thoroughly dried for over a week. All together, these factors created a blank that was more like 'Marble' than 'Wood', making it extremely difficult to cut with any tool, so much of the shaping was done with sandpaper. Despite the turning difficulties, the Titebond II glue held without a problem, and I now have a beautiful pen body drying before buffing. Have any of you tried using Titebond II for this purpose - and if so, what was the result? Thanks!


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## Wildwood (Jul 22, 2012)

No and surprized that it worked out for you. I switch to epoxy over polyurethane for two reasons.

Polyurethane went bad on me in the container. Learned from glue strenght chart and others complaning poly not as good as epoxy. I never had a glue failure with the stuff, just didn't use it fast enough before it went bad.

Whether using epoxy or poly glue I do wait until next day to turn pen barrels. Honestly feel both glues have better gap filling & strenght qualities over CA. Never had a glue failure with either epoxy or poly glue!

I prefer individual tube epoxy versus double tube syringe dispensers. Have use both and only secret can offer is mix well.

If have to have poly glue but smallest bottle can find regardless of the brand name.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Like Bill, I am surprised it worked for you at all. Titebond III is formulated to bond wood-to-wood, not wood to anything else. Epoxy is a much better choice, but I have used Gorilla glue (polyurethane) without problems. I glue one day, then turn the next, allowing plenty of time for the glue to cure.


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## Gixxerjoe04 (Jan 31, 2014)

Epoxy is the way to go, I've used superglue before but had a couple times where the dang stuff would set halfway in. Ruined a couple real nice blanks trying to force it in, then realized I could have just cut the tube off and run it in the other side. Always something to learn.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

> ... then realized I could have just cut the tube off and run it in the other side.


Pretty smart! Never thought of that.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

Never really tried using wood glue for anything other than gluing wood. That said I use alot of glue on blanks but like others mentioned epoxy or if you like quality CA glue not the cheap stuff. Don't really make many pens anymore since I got a chuck for my lathe it opened up what I could turn and pens are low on that list. LOL


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## JTTHECLOCKMAN (Oct 11, 2009)

As mentioned Titebond II is made for gluing wood to wood and not wood to metal. Will it hold up , if you got past the turning stage and completing stage then it should hold because after the parts are compressed there really is no stress on the blank again unless it is dropped. To me epoxy is my glue of choice and I always use System III T88 epoxy.


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## LakelandDave (Dec 25, 2009)

First, thanks to all for their comments and for identifying their favorite glue for pen-blanks/brass tubes. There are many 'bests' - so 'whatever works"! I know most Titebond's are formulated for wood to wood gluing, and I've used nothing else for that purpose for many years, but while doing so, I've also noticed that it's extremely difficult to remove it from most surfaces oncc dry. That was one reason for my 'experiment'. The other was related to glue distribution. It's always seemed odd to me that even with an adequate amount of glue applied with the recommended push/twist/pull technique, that much glue could reach the end opposite the insertion end without being scraped off by the blank. Neither of the two failures I had (one with epoxy, and one with CA) resulted in the tube coming loose from the blank. Instead, what happened was that a piece of the wood at the non-insertion end popped off while turning. In both cases, following the failure, I broke off more of the blank at that end and found virtually no bond at all despite having used the recommended technique. On my experiment with the Titebond II, in addition to the push/twist/pull technique, I pushed the tube out the non-insertion end about 1/2", and found there was almost no glue on the tube. I then applied glue to that exposed end and twisted and pushed it back in place. That seems to have worked fine, and suggests to me that tube/blank failures are likely more often caused by poor glue distribution - than by the type of glue. In any case, it's not my intent to use Titebond again for that purpose, but I'd still like to hear the experience of anyone else who has tried Titebond for bonding blanks to tubes.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

I glued up a tube with titebond today. Will let it sit till tomorrow or next day and spin it down and she how it works.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Titebond (I, II, and III) are PVA (poly-vinyl acetate) glues. Water is the solvent for the PVA.

When the glue is applied to wood, the PVA migrates into the wood fibers and cures as the water evaporates. The resulting bond is the result of a chemical reaction between the wood surfaces and the PVA.

Any bond that results from PVA glue being applied to metal (or any other non-wood substance) is purely coincidental and, IMNTBHO, will be prone to failure.


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## LakelandDave (Dec 25, 2009)

For anyone who might be interested in seeing the 'Titebond' Marblewood pen, here's a photo. Sorry the photo is not of better quality, but enlarging it will still show quite a bit of the unusual grain pattern produced by turning cross-grain. The pen is a PSI Gatsby style with 24 kt gold and Gun Metal trim.


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## LakelandDave (Dec 25, 2009)

PS: It turned out that the brass tube I used for this pen (confiscated from another kit) was about 1/16" too long - preventing full extension of the refill tip. As a result, after taking the picture above, I had to disassemble the pen by driving out both the 'band' and the 'clip/cap assembly' in order to shorten the body. Surprisingly, the Titebond gluing the tube to the body held fast. It might fail in the future, but right now that seems unlikely.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

I turned my blank today. Having left 1/4 inch of the barrel without any wood I used that to pull on after turning. To my surprise it did move and was warm. Leaving it for a few hours I was able to remove the brass blank for the wood. Although it did require more effort.


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## JTTHECLOCKMAN (Oct 11, 2009)

Maybe you would like to try Liquid nails or PL 5000 constructive adhesive too. No reason why they won't work well.


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## loiblb (Jul 6, 2015)

The bottom pen is all Tight Bond III glued. The top pen was 5 min. epoxy. 
I just found that sometimes heat from drilling hard wood will melt the TB III so it only epoxy from now on.


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## SignWave (Feb 2, 2010)

I realize this is an old thread, but the idea of turning a pen with cross-grain is intriguing. The marblewood example really stands out among wooden pens.

I suspect that most techniques and glue choices don't actually provide full coverage between the tubes and the wood. The glue only needs to be strong enough to hold the brass tube in place. And because we almost always use lengthwise grain orientation, the wood will hold itself together well enough that the lack of coverage is not an issue.

In the case of a cross grained pen, I can see why full coverage would be important. I also suspect that the viscosity of the glue matters quite a bit as far as coverage. Most of the quick epoxies are rather thick, and it may be that TB II is a better balance and therefore provides more complete contact with the fibers. As far as adhering to the brass tube, there isn't a lot of force pulling it out, so TB II is probably fine.

The biggest problem I can imagine in this scenario is adjusting the turning technique and tools to the grain orientation. To properly cut downhill, spindle turning techniques may end up with pieces splitting.


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## LakelandDave (Dec 25, 2009)

Thanks loiblb and SignWave! All comments and observations are excellent- especially those related to heat and full adhesion issues. The rest of the comments are 'spot-on' also. A third factor I think is important in this experiment is extended drying time to develop as full a bond as possible. In any case, even though this experiment by you and others, as well as myself, has established that using Titebond for gluing tubes to pen blanks is not a good idea, it may still have generated useful information for others who might someday want to try the same thing. On my last six pens I've used Titebond Polyurethane, and thus far I've had no problems with it. On future cross-grain turnings, after applying the glue I think I'll insert the tube most of the way in - withdraw it - apply more glue - and reinsert it in the opposite end. That way both ends should be well glued.


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## SignWave (Feb 2, 2010)

You might find it interesting that I have a set of cross-grained blanks drying right now. I decided to use epoxy, but I was extra careful to make sure that I got full covereage between the tubes and the blank. I did as you indicated and went in from both ends.

I am looking forward to seeing how the cross-grain looks in the finished pen.


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## LakelandDave (Dec 25, 2009)

That's great SignWave! Let me know what kind of wood you used, and how the cross-grain pens turn out. Also be sure to post a good, closeup photo when finished. I also have several cross-grain blanks cut out, but haven't drilled them yet.


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## SignWave (Feb 2, 2010)

I used some cherry that I had in the scrap bin for my experiment. Since I was not sure how it would turn out, I tried it with a slimline pen kit. Unfortunately, it looks like the epoxy seeped through the grain and left ugly splotches in the end grain. I suspect that it might not have seeped far enough to be visible if I had used a larger diameter pen blank. Other than that, it catches the light in a very interesting way as you rotate the blank.

The first image doesn't really capture the shine, but you can see that it's lighter in color. The second pic shows the blotchiness, and you can also see that it's much darker. This piece of cherry was pretty ordinary looking, so the color contrast is promising even though this particular experiment was a bust. 


















In light of this experiment, polyurethane might prevent this problem. I don't have any polyurethane glue, and normally avoid it, but this might be an exception.

Oh, well. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.


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## loiblb (Jul 6, 2015)

These glued up pens were made with TBIII also but failed as I drilled the glued up blanks. The heat melted the glue as the hard wood heated while drilling. Just too much extra hassle to deal with.


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