# Veneer Glues - Contact Cement?



## DrRum (Feb 25, 2009)

I recently have been thinking of adding veneering to my work and was lucky enough to find a retired woodworker of 55+ years experience that has left over veneer for sale.

He mentioned that he simply uses Contact Cement & weights for his veneer work and not a Unibond 800 and Vacuum bag.

Has anyone had any experiance with Contact Cement as a veneer adhesive and what issues does this hold for finishing and longevity of the veneer? He did say that he has never had a piece come back or any veneer bubble up.

Thoughts???

-Ivan


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Here's the place to check out for any veneering questions

http://www.joewoodworker.com/


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## rhett (May 11, 2008)

Contact cement is for laminates and backed veneers. Raw veneer, that is just the thin sheets with no backing or cross plys are not well suited for contact cement. Especially open grained and burly veneer. There are better options.


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## DanLyke (Feb 8, 2007)

I've tried contact cement, the veneer ripped itself apart, bubbled and peeled and was awful. The problem as I see it is that contact cement is flexible, and when this lets the veneer move with humidity changes bad things happen. So I won't use contact cement again.

My best luck so far has been Titebond II spread on veneer and substrate, allowed to just barely dry (you have to watch it, although Titebond I supposedly has a working time of a few days), and then ironed together. Yes, the water in the glue caused the veneer to curl, and I did have a more open grain on the veneer for finishing, so it isn't optimal, but it's the best results I've had so far.


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## thatwoodworkingguy (May 19, 2010)

I use contact cement for all my veneered box tops.
It works great! I find the best results come from waiting. In my experience the dryer the CC is the better and more instant the bond will be. This may take some patience depending on how quickly you like to work.
As for spreading I use a rolling pin and spread from the middle into each corner.


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## MedicKen (Dec 2, 2008)

I have not tried contact cement or will I ever. I get all of my supplies form veneersupplies.com. It is the same site that A1Jim suggested. I have used their glue extensively and have not had an issue. Their glue can be found here


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## DrRum (Feb 25, 2009)

I was told that the CC needs several days to a few weeks to cure fully before any finish is applied, otherwise the solvent in the finish can dissolve the CC.

I was leaning towards a Unibond 800 type of glue, but I didn't want to dismiss 55+ years of experience.

I also found glue at www.Monsterwoodshop.com

Thanks for the feedback!

-Ivan


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## Ger21 (Oct 29, 2009)

Only use contact cement with paper backed veneer. But, even then, you really need to know what you're doing if you want good results.


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## fussy (Jan 18, 2010)

Ivan,
It would depend on the thickness of your veneeer. It keeps getting thinner. With some really thin stuff, the chosen finish can soak through and loosen or completely dissolve the glue bond. On the other hand, most of what I have done was with contact cement, found it worked well with no problem. MY veneers were nearly all thicker than 1/32"; mostly 1/16" thick. Sawed them myself. Most pros and old-timers prefer hide glue, anjd it is now available in a bottle. This stuff doesn't stink as bad as hot hidde, holds just as well, and it too is reversible by heat and/or water. The choice is yours; Old B rowne Glue, contact, or yellow pva.

Steve


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## bill1352 (Nov 8, 2009)

I'd follow a1Jims idea and visit JoeWoodworkers site. If it has to do with veneer its on that site. I like his copper veneers, they look great when the project is completed. Adds a different feel to the final product.


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## sandt38 (Jun 9, 2010)

I have used a ton of contact cement on veneer and never had any problems. You just have to spread it thin and well, on both surfaces, and let it dry, then stick them together. The thing with it is, it is completely unforgiving… I did a quick tutorial a long time ago on it:

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/619856/5


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## DrRum (Feb 25, 2009)

Thanks for the help, I'm debating veneer on my next piece, when I finish my 'honey-do' list.


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## oldworld124 (Mar 2, 2008)

The best glues to use on veneers are Epoxy and Urea Glues. There are some methods of using yellow glues. However, contact cement should be used for formica or other plastics and not veneers. It is not stable enough.


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## TheWoodsman (Jun 21, 2010)

My experience:
Use only waterbased contact adhesives under paper backed veneer. I use the 3M Fastbond clear applied with a foam roller or brush . . . but I've also had problems with this. What I really recommend is sticking with the wood-on-wood veneers and use water based. I've never had trouble going this route.
Solvent based or water based contact adhesive under phenolic backed veneer and laminates. I use Wilsonart red and clear and all of my solvent adhesive is sprayed.
Wood glues (rigid setting) are the way to go on real wood veneers

I've seen the grain open up (looks like checking) more than a year later on paper backed veneer that was applied with solvent based contact adhesive. IMO, while contact adhesives do gain strength over time, they are still flexible glue lines as compared with other wood glues. Any movement can cause problems once a rigid finish is applied over it.


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## toddc (Mar 6, 2007)

I am with The Woodsman on this one. And like John Ormsby I prefer to use urea resin.

I have seen a lot of commercial work that applied veneers with contact cement and within 5 years they look like crap because the veneer cracks all apart, bubbles, and the joints move.

I would never use contact cement personally based on what I have witnessed as a contractor.


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## PastShelfLife (Jun 23, 2010)

The main problem with contact cement (any type) is that it does not cure with a rigid glue line, but rather stays flexible. This causes the veneer to buckle, bubble and/or lift. This is the case especially when you are using raw veneer with no backing because this type of veneer is not as stable as backed veneer. The underlying problem here is wood movement, a wood veneer and/or substrate that is not stable should not be glued with contact cement. For example, the worst case would be using a highly figured raw veneer such as a burl or crotch over a solid wood substrate. In this case both the veneer and substrate are prone to excessive wood movement. As prior posters suggested, urea resin glues or other glues that dry rigid are your best choice for these situations, however it is extremely important that equal and even clamping pressure be applied when using these adhesives, therefore you must either use some type of veneer press (vacuum or mechanical) or many clamps and cauls when pressing.

The only advantage contact cement has when it comes to veneering is that you do not need to clamp it and it can be used successfully in some cases where excessive wood movement is not an issue. Example: gluing down a backed veneer over mdf. Because both a stable, the contact cement should work fine.


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## DrRum (Feb 25, 2009)

Sal,

Thanks for the help. I'm slowly working my way through my 'honey do' backlog and hope to get to a Low Boy like in Charles Neil's webcast.

Cheers,
Ivan


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## PastShelfLife (Jun 23, 2010)

Hi Ivan, you're welcome.
When choosing an adhesive for your veneer project, it basically all comes down to what type of veneer you are working with and what your substrate is. As I said, contact cement will work on stable veneers like backed veneers, however I would never use contact cement on a raw un-backed veneer, especially a highly figured veneer.

You picked a winner with the Lowboy, it is a great piece and Charles does an excellent job in that webcast. Charles really knows the craft and says it like it is. One of the things I like most about his videos is that you come away with sound practical knowledge, that in the real world of woodworking is very helpful in the shop. I have used his blotch controller for stain and have found it's the best product for controlling stain that I have ever come across in 30 years of finishing. I just started watching his coloring woods dvd set and so far it's very informative.


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## PastShelfLife (Jun 23, 2010)

Tom, did you read the last paragraph in my initial post, specifically the last sentence which reads "Example: gluing down a backed veneer over mdf. Because both a stable, the contact cement should work fine."

If you are trying to imply that contact cement is a good choice for ALL veneering projects, then I strongly disagree. When veneering any project, a sound understanding of the properties in the veneer, adhesive and substrates you are using is critical to success.


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## PastShelfLife (Jun 23, 2010)

Hi Tom,
Let me try to explain what we are talking about here. This thread is not addressing what type of glue is used in the manufacturing of paperbacked veneer, we are dealing with what glue to use when APPLYING the veneer. I have been involved with the manufacturing of backed veneers and have been using and selling these products for over 25 years, so I can go into great detail about it's makeup but that's not what this thread is about.

Now, it's not the adhesive that is used in the manufacturing of the veneer that determines what's best to use for ACTUALLY GLUING THE VENEER TO ITS SUBSTRATE. One has to look at how the type of veneer being used will behave with both the adhesive and substrate. Paperbacked veneer is manufactured so that it can be very flexible and easy to handle, the entire manufacturing process of laminating and tenderizing also makes it very stable, therefore the adhesive used has to be of a certain nature and mill thickness so the veneer will remain flexible. That being said, this does not mean that flexible a adhesive like contact cement should be used in ALL types of veneer and veneer applications. Such a blanket statement shows a lack of understanding on just how different veneers and adhesives behave with each other. The fact is that contact cements do not produce a rigid glue line and remain somewhat flexible. If you are using any type of UN-BACKED veneer (especially highly figured) you need to understand that they are less stable and will move more than a backed veneer. Because the contact cement remains somewhat flexible, it tends to also move The movement in varied directions and stress involved here will almost certainly result in de-lamination of some sort. This is why an adhesive such as a urea resin that cures rigid is a much better choice for these veneering situations.

You are making an excellent argument for the use of paperbacked veneers and I thank you because I sell the stuff.  However you are not making any argument for the use of contact cements in ALL veneering situations. Hope is helps clear things up a bit my friend.


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## sandt38 (Jun 9, 2010)

Sal, I have been building high end speaker cabinets for years now, using MDF and some highly figured veneers. I exclusively use Contact cement, and my current mains were built using MDF and contact cement. They are 6, almost 7 years old now. They have 16 layers of brushing lacquer on them. I have no bubble, separation, or lift. I have never suffered any breakdown of the glue due to my finishes. The veneer is not backed, either, and in fact I have never used backed veneers.

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/33250#


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