# Your personal view on necessity of jointer plane 7 or 8?



## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

I am curious on what people's views are that use mainly hand tools on the importance of a jointer/try plane like a 7 or 8.

I know Richard Maguire says you don't need one and to tell off anyone that tells you that you need an 8. Then again he has a LN 8 that he used to use on every bench he made.

The Schwarz calls it a "good to have" tool, but also personally uses a LN 8 as his jointer/try, though he says you "can" use a jack as a "smallish jointer/try plane".

Paul Sellers has a mixed view that goes all over the place. Sometimes he says the metal ones are useless and the wooden are better. Sometimes he says he sometimes uses on but its rare. Other times he says you can do everything you need to so with a 4 or 5. He says the reason you find old 7s and 8s in good shape is because nobody used them.

So am curious what peoples opinions are for the common hobbyist like myself. When building my workbench I found it was quite a lot of work to get it flat and long pieces jointed with my jack plane. Luckily I had an 8' level that i could use as a straight edge, otherwise it would have just been guessing. I picked up an 18" long transitional plane that really helped to flatten my bench. But now am curious if I should save up to buy a 7 or 8? Or just build the skill it takes to use a jack more effectively on longer pieces?

Thanks


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## trialrun (Mar 10, 2016)

My jointer plane is a good to use when flattening large slabs by hand. If the slabs are really bad, i take them to a local shop to have flattened on a cnc but for the most part I do them by hand. It is a workout. To that end, I have a #7, i'm on the hunt for a number 8 which gives you about 2 more inches of length and some additional weight.


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## KYtoolsmith (Oct 13, 2018)

As I've said in a recent post on what size plane… I size the plane to the work. I often need to flatten, remove twist, correct cupping, or bowing of the rough sawn lumber I use. For that reason I can't do without the big three; my 6, 7, and 8 are my most used planes. Just this morning I was flattening and truing the parts of a trestle table. I do this every time cut a board to the rough lengths needed for a project. It amazes me, even now, that I can achieve a perfectly flat board face from something so poor. The same for making glue joint edges for table tops… I have tried with a 5, and cannot get as true a surface. They'll have to fight me to take my 8 away!

Regards, The Kentucky Toolsmith!


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## JayT (May 6, 2012)

I use my #6 for the vast majority of flattening and jointing. It's long enough to keep a good straight edge and lighter to use and control than a 7 or 8. That said, I have a #8 size that has been used building workbenches and a few other tasks. It's nice to have, but there is nothing I used it for that couldn't have been done with the #6, it just would have taken more passes.


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

+1 to what the KYToolSmith said. I would use my #8 and my other #8 in a fight to keep you from taking them away from me. And you don't want to get hit with a #8 so best to just leave me be with them.

Jokes aside I too size the plane to the work. I've read several things online saying you don't need an 8 or a 6 but I feel that to be untrue. Honestly I use my 8 and 6 more than my 7. My 7 gets its most use from flattening table tops. My workbench needed all the first year movement taken out of its top and the 7 was the perfect size to go at it diagonally and get a super flat surface. Followed up with a #5 and for that glassy smooth feel I went back over with a 604.

Paul Sellers is a man among children when it comes to plane usage. You "can" do everything with a 4 or 5 but why if you don't have to. The bigger planes will cost a bit more but I found a matching #7 and #8 at a local "vintage" shop…whatever that means…for $135 for the pair. They aren't pretty (yet) but both were type 10s so that was quite a bargain if you ask me.

And while we are on the subject of jointing and do you need a certain size plane…if you build small boxes try to find a good 5-1/4 size. That is my "jointer" of choice for thin stock.


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## Wintergreen78 (Feb 11, 2019)

I'm also just a hobbyist. I have one #5 set up as a jack and a second #5 set up with a tighter mouth and pretty straight blade. I'm happy with that for anything up to 32 inches or so. I feel like I can pretty effectively get things flat and get good panel glue-ups with those 2 tools. I agree that they become a hassle with longer pieces. I made a 7' tabletop for a friend and it took a good bit of testing and taking down high spots to get nice joint lines for the glue up.

If I was going to be making 5' long or bigger pieces pretty regularly, I would probably get a longer plane. Since I don't regularly make big stuff like that, I'm not in any hurry to track one down. I've also kicked around the idea of making a wooden plane with a 20"-22" sole. I may do that whenever I decide to make something big again.

Are you planning to make bigger pieces (That need to be particularly flat or jointed) anytime soon? That is how I would decide whether or not to get a longer plane.


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## Jeremymcon (Jul 16, 2016)

I use my no 7 all the time! I'd have a hard time edge jointing beyond 2 or 3 feet without it. I use it on faces of boards too. Reserve the smoother mostly for final smoothing.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

I have a #7 that doesn't get used all that often. I could live without it easily enough but it's also nice to have when I need it. IMO, you need them if you're dimensioning large stock with only hand tools otherwise you can probably get by fine with a 5-1/2 or 6. Then again, there are folks out there that can joint a raw board flat with only a #4. It really just comes down to what you do and how you do it.


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## MikeUT (Sep 5, 2014)

If you use your jack plane and THINK you'd use a jointer plane you probably will. I have two #8-sized jointers in my collection and I use them often. I've owned a dozen or more #7's and #8's but always sell the #7's. I can't tell much of a difference in difficulty to push a #7 vs #8 and the #8 is bigger and feels better. But more importantly the cutter is 1/4" wider so it's more efficient. I have a jointer-length wood-body plane that is fun to play with but I prefer bailey-style planes to wood ones.

I really enjoy restoring old planes and tools, so factor that in when you weigh my opinion… I stand by saying that you'll use it if you use other planes, but a new LN 8 may not be justifiable for an occasional use tool if you have a tight budget.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

I used to use mine all of the time, until I bought a jointer.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> Paul Sellers is a man among children when it comes to plane usage. You "can" do everything with a 4 or 5 but why if you don t have to. The bigger planes will cost a bit more but I found a matching #7 and #8 at a local "vintage" shop…whatever that means…for $135 for the pair
> 
> And while we are on the subject of jointing and do you need a certain size plane…if you build small boxes try to find a good 5-1/4 size. That is my "jointer" of choice for thin stock.
> 
> - sansoo22


Well Paul also justifies it saying that normally you buy wood from lumberyards where its already been skip planed on both faces. Which is true where I live, its very hard to find rough lumber here. So a lot of times I get 3/4 material and just smooth off the machine planer waves with my #4.

I "kind of" have a 5 1/4 already. By that I mean I found a 5 1/4 on CL that was missing parts. And I found a #3 that was missing parts. Both dirt cheap since missing parts. I used both but found the 5 1/4 kind of awkward size. So I made the 3 a superfine smoother. But if I need a 5 1/4 i can just swap the frog/iron/chipbreaker over and voila a 5 1/4!


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> I used to use mine all of the time, until I bought a jointer.
> 
> - bondogaposis


I actually have a 6" jointer. But kind of burnt out on using machines so much. So trying to do more hand tool work, as its just a hobby for me. Less noise, less dust, more relaxing and I actually get a workout. Mainly now using my table saw when it makes sense, Or certain other power tools, but then the majority with hand tools.


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

> I really enjoy restoring old planes and tools, so factor that in when you weigh my opinion… I stand by saying that you ll use it if you use other planes, but a new LN 8 may not be justifiable for an occasional use tool if you have a tight budget.
> 
> - MikeUT


I should have added this bit to my comment as well. I use all sizes of planes because I buy them on the cheaper side and make them nice. I probably wouldn't have so many if i was buying them new.


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## MPython (Nov 30, 2018)

I use my #7 all the time, primarily for truing edges for panel glue-ups. I have a nice tailed jointer, but I prefer to edge joint boards for glue-ups with a #7, even if I've run them through the jointer first. I also have a #6 and a #8. I use them both occasionally, but the #7 is the workhorse. I wouldn't be without it.


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## Dwain (Nov 1, 2007)

I find myself using a 4 for smoothing, an old Miller's Falls #5 for jack plane work and a number 7 for jointing. I just purchased a 5 1/2 that I am excited about using. I REALLY like my 7. I don't have an 8 and don't use planes enough to justify one, at least yet. It is an addiction after all.


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

> I find myself using a 4 for smoothing, an old Miller s Falls #5 for jack plane work and a number 7 for jointing. I just purchased a 5 1/2 that I am excited about using. I REALLY like my 7. I don t have an 8 and don t use planes enough to justify one, at least yet. It is an addiction after all.
> 
> - Dwain


Its only an addiction if you have collectors as well as users. If you use them all its not an addiction. That being said i fall into the former.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> I find myself using a 4 for smoothing, an old Miller s Falls #5 for jack plane work and a number 7 for jointing. I just purchased a 5 1/2 that I am excited about using. I REALLY like my 7. I don t have an 8 and don t use planes enough to justify one, at least yet. It is an addiction after all.
> 
> - Dwain
> 
> ...


What if you use them just to validate your purchase? I have a few molding planes I purchased that have only cut scrap pine to test sharpness and setup.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

I have a couple 7s and one 8 (Heft and Hubris). I will never be without an 8, don't care what anyone says. It starts moving and stays moving, joints edges perfectly, and is otherwise just a joy to use. Every. Time.


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## Axis39 (Jul 3, 2019)

> I really enjoy restoring old planes and tools, so factor that in when you weigh my opinion… I stand by saying that you ll use it if you use other planes, but a new LN 8 may not be justifiable for an occasional use tool if you have a tight budget.
> 
> - MikeUT


I have a really hard time justifying the prices of any LN planes… I mean, don't get me wrong, I know they are beautiful and don't need a lot of work… But good googley moogley I am trying to earn a living here! LOL

I sure wouldn't turn one down…. But, I have lived so far without. I might just survive without any a little longer.



> I should have added this bit to my comment as well. I use all sizes of planes because I buy them on the cheaper side and make them nice. I probably wouldn t have so many if i was buying them new.
> 
> - sansoo22


This is my reality. I inherited a couple of planes from my Pops and Granddad. But, I bought a couple off eBay fifteen or twenty years ago, trued and tuned them and now they cut as well as anything I've ever used.

I have Stanley and Bailey #'s 4, 5c, 7, 78 and a 271. Plus some Millers Falls block planes and an old Stanley Spokeshave. They all see regular usage. But, realistically, if I didn't have any one or two of them, my life would still go on and I would still be able to do the work I do… I'd just figure out another way to do it.

Some jobs require a 7 or 8. It's just the reality. The work can be done in other ways, but sometimes the big old iron is just the easiest, most efficient way.


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## Phil32 (Aug 31, 2018)

When my woodworking entered the stage of long, straight edges I bought my first jointer. That was when I was about twenty. More recently my interests shifted to relief carving - designs with few straight edges or surfaces - so the two Stanley #5s and Stanley block plane see very little use. The #7 in my grandpa's tool chest is still there.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

The problem with Sellers and Swartz and guys like them is they make a living telling you what you need. It doesn't take long before they run out of things that are new to write, so they have to make ******************** up. Otherwise, there goes part of their income stream.

We all work a little different, make different things, have different experiences, different bodies, and different ackes and pains.

I've always had the thought that you find a way to do what you do with what you have whenever possible, but continue to expand based on what will make your life easier.

I think basing your tool on the job is the right thing to do. If you're going to flatten one large panel every 2 or 3 years, use your current #4 or 5 if you want. If you're doing it more often there is nobody going to tell me it's not easier with a longer hand plane. How much longer? Well that depends on you. My #6 is probably my most used "longer" plane, but don't think I'm going to be without a jointer. When the #8 comes out, Dad's got a job to do!


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Don W., that's a great answer!


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Agree with Don W we all develop methods of work that suit us. I won't attribute motives, but I do agree somewhat that the "gurus" methods are often difficult to emulate, leaving one feeling a bit "inferior".

To the OP, in my work, I find the #6 THE most useful plane of all. Shooting, face planing, flattening jointing it really does it all for me. That said, I would hold on to the #7. I do have one and when I need it I'm glad I have it.

I've seen Mr. Sellers joint with a #4 with the utmost respect, I just don't see how. However #4 is very good for making a spring joint!


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Agree with sizing the plane with the work. I do make larger projects, so I will have a 7 or 8 (or both). I machine my rough lumber, but all edges are jointed with a plane to get the correct fit for glue up. I use a jointer to start panel flattening, finish joint panel edges, true up a long board when I dont want to get the planer sled out (dont have or need a pwr jointer). Ive never used an 8, tho I have Handled a few at shows. I like my 7 in large part because it uses the same size blade and chip breaker as my 4-1/2's. #8 parts are not as plentiful or cheap. I use a 5-1/2 instead of a 6 because it came along while plane hunting and does that work just fine. No I would not trade a 7 or 8 for a 6. Might trade my 7 for an 8 if I get the chance to use one. All of mine are Bailey post wwII vintage and work great once properly tuned - no aftermarket thicker irons or breakers needed.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

You can never have enough 8's


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## WalkerR (Feb 8, 2017)

I have a small 4" benchtop jointer I use for edges on small parts. Anything that's too big for that gets treatment with my Stanley Bedrock #8. I do have a Keen K6 that I also use for edges, flattening faces and just about everything else.

I actually ended up with two #8 because I accidentally won two ebay auctions. I didn't expect to win both! I've kept them both for a few years, but I'm currently saving for other tools, so one is currently back on ebay. (shameless plug).

Corelz that's a lot of iron!


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

> You can never have enough 8 s
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did you purposely buy 8 of them or was that a happy accident? I once had 3 #3s, 4 #4s, and 5 #5s for whatever reason.


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

I have a #6 and a #8. The 8 doesn't get used a ton, but when it does, it's nice to have. I use my #5 1/4 as a pseudo scrub first, and a #4 for smoothing.


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

I have a LN #8; it almost never gets use. I find that my BU jack plane works just as well as the #8 for the jointing I do and way less tiring to use.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

Thats an older pic there has been more 24" planes added to the collection might be up to 11 now.


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## fuigb (Apr 21, 2010)

Until i bought a good aftermarket blade i had only about 30 bucks and sweat equity into a Bedrock 8 and Bailey 7. Both are fine users. LN makes sweet stuff, but no need to spend real money to open the door to manual jointing, just attention to estate and barn sales.


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## schnable (Sep 13, 2012)

I have both a #7 and a #8 (and an stationary 6" rockwell jointer with a short bed) and I use them all the time.

I use the long hand planes to edge joint very long boards and when I flatten wide panels. To edge joint medium length boards, I start with the rockwell, and do a final pass with the #7 or #8 to remove any ripples (for short boards, I do the final pass with a #6 or #5.)

These planes are heavy - because of that I usually tend to reach for the shortest plane first that matches the job to be done.

I doubt that anyone needs both a #7 and a #8 - I happened to get a good deal on them so I ended up with both.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

Nice collection and cabinet


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

OP question: Necessity of large 7, 0r 8 hand plane?

IMHO - Depends on how you like to work wood?

If you are impatient power tool and power sander type person, building with mostly BORG lumber; 
you don't need them.

If you like the feel of working wood, and enjoying making things with your hands, body, and mind; 
you need to learn how to use large hand planes properly. 
There is subtle joy in pushing a large hunk of cast iron around that is relaxing, and the results strangely gratifying that a power tool can not provide. Once you learn solid hand plane skills, you literally become addicted to the quiet sound of shaving wood with your hands.

I have (1) each 606, 607, 608 with smooth bottoms and (1) each 6, 7, 8 with grooved bottoms.
When I was using stock blades and had to stop to sharpen often, large planes were task specific. The grooved planes only got used for face flattening large panels, and the smooth bottom for one final pass to clean up jointer marks on long boards.

After I upgraded to PM11 blades on most my hand planes, I almost stopped using my 8" jointer. It only gets used when I break down a pile of lumber for new project. If I'm jointing one stick for small project, only hand planes get used. In my small shop, can finish most small jointing jobs with hand planes in same or less time it takes to roll jointer away from wall, hook up dust collector and turn on power.

I hear Mikey likes it, 
Try it you will like it…...

YMMV


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

> If you like the feel of working wood, and enjoying making things with your hands, body, and mind;
> you need to learn how to use large hand planes properly.
> There is subtle joy in pushing a large hunk of cast iron around that is relaxing, and the results strangely gratifying that a power tool can not provide. Once you learn solid hand plane skills, you literally become addicted to the quiet sound of shaving wood with your hands.
> 
> - CaptainKlutz


This pretty well explains why I have so many planes in general. I own a lunch box planer but dont have a power jointer. So far I haven't really needed or wanted one. The only power tools used when I built my workbench was a table saw, miter saw, and cordless drill. The rest was pull saws and planes. I think I had a block, 4, 5, and 6 at the time.

I think that's a pretty good test to see if you'll enjoy hand tools. Build a hand tool bench with as few power tools as possible. Or no power tools at all if you want a bigger challenge. By the end you will know if you like it or not.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Still using the OEM irons in mine…..

IF the board being jointed is up to 5' long…the #7, #7c, OR the #8 will get used…..somedays, it is either the #6, or the #6c….somedays, it happens to be the #5-1/2…depends on how the arms and back feel that day….

On the box projects I have been doing, lately….a Millers Falls #11, with a straight edged iron, has been the jointer of choice. Will have to wait and see, what this…









Will need, when the clamps come off….grain seems to be a flat sawn…









We'll see…..


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## FrankKerman (Feb 1, 2020)

I like to use hand tools like plane 7.


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## AdmiralRich (Jun 26, 2011)

Well, there's nothing a #8 can do that a #7 can't do; for my tastes the #8 is just too heavy to push around, had one, sold it, got another, ended up selling it as well. A #6 is an underrated plane, marketed by Stanley as a "short jointer" they are correct, it also works well flattening panels, but sometimes you need a bit longer registration, and that's where the #7 comes in, as well as for edge jointing longer stock. So a #6 can do "most" of what a #7 can do, but not everything.

All that being said, Sellers is a very talented guy, but sometimes he has a brain fart and insists you can joint with a #5 or do everything you need to do with a #4. Well you can, if you are making boxes and stools and such, but jointing longer stock, well, he's just stretching the utility of a #5, and a #4 is just useless for jointing such stock.

So take your pick, if you've got a #8, fine, but you don't need a #7 if you do, and vice versa. And everyone should have a #4 and #5.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> If you like the feel of working wood, and enjoying making things with your hands, body, and mind;
> you need to learn how to use large hand planes properly.
> There is subtle joy in pushing a large hunk of cast iron around that is relaxing, and the results strangely gratifying that a power tool can not provide. Once you learn solid hand plane skills, you literally become addicted to the quiet sound of shaving wood with your hands.
> 
> ...


Yeah Sansoo, that is basically what I did with my bench. Followed Richard Maguire's advice and bench video, and used a handful of hand tools and really enjoyed it. I ripped the rough boards with my table saw but all other work was done with the tools you see on the bench.


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

Looks like we have similar tastes in benches. I designed my own but its got the same sort of Nicholson style front apron on it.

Pay not attention to the planes or the unfinished cabinet. For a small bench it packs a lot of work holding options in it. The rear dead man can use pegs in the first 2 rows of holes and hold fasts in the second row. I've used it to joint panels when I mess one up or long wide stock.










I need to build a bigger one and I'm thinking roubo on one side and Nicholson on the other very similar to this one. I will probably do a spit top with a tool well. Mine has one with a caddy for my bench dogs and my rag-in-a-can. Having that in a caddy is a simple wipe the plane across it and go to work.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

Sansoo have you looked at the Moravian bench?


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

> Sansoo have you looked at the Moravian bench?
> 
> - corelz125


I have and while I really like the design for its stability I didn't feel it allowed for as many storage options under the bench as other styles do. Surprisingly a spacious 2 car garage runs out of space quicker than I thought it would.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

I have a 3 car garage but one car is always in it so i'm in the same boat as you and space is a premium. That's the one thing that interested me about the Moravian bench that it can be knocked down and stored. Think you can do some modifications to suit your need?


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## OleGrump (Jun 16, 2017)

If you do any amount of edge jointing by hand on long pieces, yer gonna need a nice jointer. This is especially true if you live in an older home with doors that are actually made of wood. If you're a total "power tooler", you'll go a different route.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Just be careful… it can be very addicting… *;-)*
As far as #7s and #8s, they are useful depending what you are trying to do, such as flattening your bench, etc. My longest plane is a 22in Auburn in the bottom two images. With those five planes, I can pretty much do it all as long as I don't get lazy and use machines…*;-)*
That said, my shoulder and block planes get the most use.


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## mvflaim (Dec 8, 2009)

I use a Stanley No 8 for joining. If I used the plane all day long, I'd switch to a Stanley No 7 for the weight. Otherwise, there is no real difference between the two. The weight of the No 8 helps with hogging off more material when flattening a slab. If you would use it for nothing more than edge joining, buy a No 7 or even tune up an old transitional jointer plane.


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## jkeith (Feb 9, 2020)

I use my 6 more than my 7 by a long shot and probably a bit more than my 4s. I have two jack planes that barely get used anymore, and I don't own an 8. My 6 is the Goldilocks of my bench planes.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

Need an edge on a piece 1 1/2" thick, 8' long? Use a real plane, the No. 8.

;-)


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