# Hardwax Oil Finishes Testing



## Fotodog (Jan 2, 2019)

I have been following the threads on the various hardwax oil finishes, and I appreciate those that have posted their experiences. I'm adding my hat to the ring because my tests show some results that are a bit different than others have seen. There's a lot to like about these finishes; easy application in a shop that doesn't have to be dust free, they do a good job of showing the beauty of the wood, and most have a nice soft feel when cured. But all of these attributes are diminished if the finish doesn't hold up well in use.

I've been testing 4 different finishes this year; Rubio Monocoat, Odie's Oil, Tried & True, and Osmo Polyx 3043 Satin. I'm in no way a pro, just a guy making furniture in my home shop. My woods of choice are usually walnut and maple, the first being open grained and benefiting from some added warmth, whereas the maple is tight grained and (for me) doesn't look as good with too much yellowing. So these are what I tested, sanding only to 150 grit as most manufacturers recommend.

Rubio produces a very flat finish. I know many like this look, but it was just too flat to bring out the richness of the wood to my eye. I've seen the videos where multiple coats were used in conjunction with a buffer, but on smaller projects with lots of nooks and crannies that seems impractical. I'm also not fond of having to mix 2 parts together for each use to get a quicker cure time.

Odie's oil also produced a flat finish. I called them, and was told that more sheen could result from sanding to a higher grit. I did use Odie's for some cutting boards and liked the result; food safe, and richer looking than just using mineral oil.

Tried and True was recommended by a guy at my Woodcraft store for walnut, and I think it does a great job. It provides a deep, slightly warm finish with a very soft sheen with multiple coats. I have sanded to 220 on a recent project since they don't advise otherwise, and the results were silky smooth.

Osmo produced the most sheen for me when I applied 3 coats. It's a beautiful satin finish, not too glossy. If the sheen is too much for your taste, you can knock it back with a few light passes with 3M red or grey pads. It still feels very smooth and silky, unlike a poly finish. It is also the least yellowing of all these finishes, which I like for maple.

Now for the interesting part; the liquid test. I had samples of these finishes that have been curing for 3 to 6 months, and did a test with water and white wine left on the surface for 45 minutes. The surfaces were then wiped clean, first with a damp rag and then a dry one.

From what I've read, I expected the Rubio to fare the best and the Osmo to fare the worse; my results were exactly opposite. Osmo and Odies were the best of the 4, showing no marks or discoloring. Tried and True showed some marks, but they disappeared after a few minutes. Rubio had dark marks from the liquids, which mostly disappeared after waiting 10 minutes and buffing by hand, but I could still see a tiny bit where the wine was.

I have enclosed some photos, but view them with some caveats. I wanted to show the maximum effects from the liquids with the affected area brightly highlighted, so the sheen is a bit harsh and greater than what you would expect to see in normal lighting. These are offcuts from different projects, and I also didn't sand as carefully as I would normally. Each sample has a spot of water on the left, wine on the right. The last image is a closeup of the Rubio showing the slight discoloration.

Sorry for the long post, and I certainly don't want to infer that anyone else's results are not accurate. I think it might show that we all might add our own nuances to the finishing process, which might produce different results. Cheers!


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

i appreciate your effort to test these finishes that i myself have been interested in.im a die hard maloof oil guy,love how the finish looks and feels after a few coats.but i wanted to know if something else was just as easy to apply and give as good or better look.i tried the rubio and like you was not impressed at all and will not waste my money on it.it's hard to really tell from your pic's though which is really better finish wise.i do wanna try the osmo.but in reality im probably gonna stay with the maloof oil blend.ive been using a lot of the general finishes products,and really love the results so they may beat the maloof.it's hard to argue with the worlds most famous woodworker though-lol. hey thanks for the testing you did.


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## Fotodog (Jan 2, 2019)

Thanks Pottz, 
Yeah, hard to argue with Mr. Maloof. He forgot more than I will ever know. The photos don't really give a good representation of what the final finish looks like with more carefully prepared wood, and I almost didn't post them. I'll be posting a project soon showing display tables with walnut bases finished with Tried & True and curly maple tops finished with Osmo. These will show the results better on a finished project.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> Thanks Pottz,
> Yeah, hard to argue with Mr. Maloof. He forgot more than I will ever know. The photos don't really give a good representation of what the final finish looks like with more carefully prepared wood, and I almost didn't post them. I'll be posting a project soon showing display tables with walnut bases finished with Tried & True and curly maple tops finished with Osmo. These will show the results better on a finished project.
> 
> - Fotodog


so with the tests youve done whats your favorite so far ? i found the rubio way over rated and over priced,plus i did not like the sheen.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

Interesting, I thought the Osmo instructions said to ONLY use 2 coats? Thats what ai did on my kitchen island about a year or so ago and love it and its held up great as being the main work area in the kitchen with a family of 4.


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## Fotodog (Jan 2, 2019)

The best overall for me is Osmo. I like that you can build up to the sheen you want, and still have a durable but soft feeling finish. It looks good on walnut and brings out the figure in maple without making it too yellow. If it's only walnut where I can finish it separately and I'm okay with a bit flatter finish (like a table base or legs), Tried & True Seems to add a slight bit more depth and warmth.

SMP, thanks for posting your experience, it's great to hear that your kitchen island has held up well. I have read comments questioning the durability of Osmo, which is what prompted me to conduct the test. I didn't want to use a finish that wouldn't hold up well. For the Osmo I started with 2 coats, but then added a third coat on some test pieces and liked the results in walnut. I didn't see much difference in maple, but in a softer, more open grain wood like walnut the third coat seemed to make a difference.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> Interesting, I thought the Osmo instructions said to ONLY use 2 coats? Thats what ai did on my kitchen island about a year or so ago and love it and its held up great as being the main work area in the kitchen with a family of 4.
> 
> - SMP


good to know.but what kind of sheen does it have,and how does it bring out the richness of the wood.thats why i use oil finishes because it bring out the richness of the wood,and it it doesn't make it feel like plastic.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> The best overall for me is Osmo. I like that you can build up to the sheen you want, and still have a durable but soft feeling finish. It looks good on walnut and brings out the figure in maple without making it too yellow. If it's only walnut where I can finish it separately and I'm okay with a bit flatter finish (like a table base or legs), Tried & True Seems to add a slight bit more depth and warmth.
> 
> SMP, thanks for posting your experience, it's great to hear that your kitchen island has held up well. I have read comments questioning the durability of Osmo, which is what prompted me to conduct the test. I didn't want to use a finish that wouldn't hold up well. For the Osmo I started with 2 coats, but then added a third coat on some test pieces and liked the results in walnut. I didn't see much difference in maple, but in a softer, more open grain wood like walnut the third coat seemed to make a difference.
> 
> - Fotodog


sounds good ill give it a try.whats the smallest amount they sell.the rubio at least had small sample sizes to try out.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> Interesting, I thought the Osmo instructions said to ONLY use 2 coats? Thats what ai did on my kitchen island about a year or so ago and love it and its held up great as being the main work area in the kitchen with a family of 4.
> 
> - SMP
> 
> ...


Well, you can get Osmo in multiple sheens. I use the satin personally. And since its an oil finish it has as much chattenoyance as any other oil finish i have used. Here i'll snap a pic of my island right now, but its night time so the lighting is probably kind of bad, and hard to see the depth in just a pic, haven't done anything to this island top in a year or so. And it doesn't feel like plastic at all(2 coats) I would say less so than the maloof mix, and I have used that on various pieces as well.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

it's definitely one im gonna try.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

I really like Rubio and see no reason to look at others. But here's the difference is see with your test. I hand plane or cut with a good sharp knife cleanly. The surface from a sharp edge is different then what sanding can create.
Sanding grinds the wood and fills the pores slightly with dust and ragged edges.
A cut leaves nothing behind to fill wood pores and shines. Rubio does enhance a cut surface enough too pass the matte look.
I offer these two examples for your consideration 








Walnut chair









Eucalyptus bowls
Both have Rubios pure oil. 
The only complaint I have is the cost 
Good Luck


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

impossible too tell from the pic's what the look and feel of the wood is.the only reason id ever give up an oil finish would be to achieve the same look,feel and add a durabilty the oil cant.


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## Axis39 (Jul 3, 2019)

I've been experimenting with Odie's recently. I will say that I am glad you found it to hold up well. So far, it ahs for me as well.

I sand to as high as I want. I've gone up to 600 grit, but 320 has given me the finish I need for the next step… I use 3M white pads, to apply the first coat of Odie's. It is like the base coat of a french polish and creates a very fine slurry filling some pores, but burnishing everything nicely.

I've used this method on oak, mahogany, maple, some desert willow, etc. I've liked the results on all of these woods.

I've used it on a few new tool handles, and the more I use them, the nicer they feel, and higher the sheen gets, as well. But, that doesn't really work for furniture.

Your results with Osmo have me intrigued as well. I had another friend, who i trust with things like this, recommend it as well.

Thanks for your post.


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## Fotodog (Jan 2, 2019)

If you are using Osmo for the first time, make sure to apply a light coat, it doesn't take much. I like to use the white non abrasive pads which are often recommended. And you can't wait too long, 5 - 15 minutes max, before removing all the excess. After that it starts getting gummy and hard to remove.


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## rad457 (Jun 15, 2013)

> If you are using Osmo for the first time, make sure to apply a light coat, it doesn't take much. I like to use the white non abrasive pads which are often recommended. And you can't wait too long, 5 - 15 minutes max, before removing all the excess. After that it starts getting gummy and hard to remove.
> 
> - Fotodog


Oh so true and I have found best results with planed surfaces and if using Sandpaper only go up to 220 gr.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> it s definitely one im gonna try.
> 
> - pottz


Tell you what Pottz, if you want, i have osmo and maloof mix. I can send you a scrap that has both on it, just pm me an address and what type of wood. I have scraps of walnut, oak, cherry, maple, alder, pine and various other things. That way you don't have to waste $40-50 on osmo if you are happy with maloof.


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> it s definitely one im gonna try.
> 
> - pottz
> 
> ...


oh very cool that would be fantastic.pm on the way.


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## Fotodog (Jan 2, 2019)

Here's a quick shot of a curly maple tabletop that I'm building, finished with 3 coats of Osmo. The unfinished wood is shown for reference. It's impossible to show chatoyance in a still photo, but it looks great on this wood.


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## Iban (Dec 8, 2021)

Interesting. Thanks for sharing


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## Iban (Dec 8, 2021)

> I really like Rubio and see no reason to look at others. But here's the difference is see with your test. I hand plane or cut with a good sharp knife cleanly. The surface from a sharp edge is different then what sanding can create.
> Sanding grinds the wood and fills the pores slightly with dust and ragged edges.
> A cut leaves nothing behind to fill wood pores and shines. Rubio does enhance a cut surface enough too pass the matte look.
> I offer these two examples for your consideration
> ...


That is r gorgeous! congratulations


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## Bourbeauwoodworks (12 mo ago)

I have always finished with poly on tables or counters for the products I sell but I am intrigued by these hardwax oils. If I were to switch to any of these hardwax oils could I expect them to hold up for customers? Or will I be making more house calls for dull finishes and wear compared to poly. If it were my own stuff I would have no problem with annual maintenance. Thoughts


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## Bourbeauwoodworks (12 mo ago)

I have always finished with poly on tables or counters for the products I sell but I am intrigued by these hardwax oils. If I were to switch to any of these hardwax oils could I expect them to hold up for customers? Or will I be making more house calls for dull finishes and wear within the year compared to poly? If it were my own stuff I would have no problem with annual maintenance. Speaking of, what is the suggested maintenance on these products? Do I just use a hardwood floor wax once a year? Maybe I could provide the customer with a small jar of the product with instructions for repairs.

Thank you for any input!


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## Peteybadboy (Jan 23, 2013)

Great thread Fotodog!

I tried Rubio, great results and poor results. I sent them a note. Finish on Bloodwood was terrible. they asked how I prepped (sanding methods) I went to 220, way too fine for a hardwood like bloodwood. I will try again. Service was excellent.

When I can, I will read all of these notes.

Thanks for posting this!


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## Lewiston (Nov 1, 2013)

Tim, which version of Tried and True did you use for your comparison?


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## Fotodog (Jan 2, 2019)

Hi Lewiston, I used their original polymerized linseed oil and beeswax finish. I posted in another thread that this is now my favorite finish for walnut. For maple or any other wood where I prefer less warmth, I use Osmo.


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## Lewiston (Nov 1, 2013)

Hi Tim, thanks for the reponse. I've used their varnish and danish oil but not the original. I'll have to give it a try.


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## KelleyCrafts (May 17, 2016)

Awesome test!

I found Osmo about two years ago and haven't looked back. It lasts longer than any other finish I've used so shelf life is better, you barely use any when applying which is stupid proof. I also use white 3M pads to apply. Not sure if it matters but I get great results. Sometimes you only need one coat but two is golden, haven't found a reason for a third that improves the first two.

I will use general finishes poly if I need poly, otherwise I use Osmo on everything else. Did anyone mention how good the wood feels with this on it? Oh yeah they did, silky smooth. Osmo isn't cheap but I think it stretches out really far so you get your money worth overall.

Just my .02


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

Interesting read along. I like everyone else these days see all the ads for Odie's, Rubio, and several others not in the game just a few years ago, so there is interest.

Pottz said something that resonates with me. "feel" and for me it's as important it have that feel, as well as a look. Seeing as how I don't see anything that would make me jump ship I too will likely stick with an Oil finish (General Finishes), and probably a layer of wax afterward.

I appreciate the time though, it did answer many of the questions I had.

Dave my one thing with Osmo products is they have too many of them, and the lines are blurry as to what one does, and another doesn't. Which Osmo is it that your stuck on?

"I found Osmo about two years ago and haven't looked back."


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

This will probably fall on deaf ears, but poly can be applied like a danish oil (what I call a close to the grain finish) and wear as well as any of these newer finishes. I have only tested a sample bottle of Rubio that was given to me. No better than the poly. I encourage those testing hard wax oils, meaning they have 2 or 3 brands, to test them against poly. Thin 1:1, flood on, keep wet for 20 min or longer, wipe and buff off. If the lack of voc's is important to you dont waste your time, poly has plenty of those during application.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

I'm pretty stoked. The OSMO regional rep is going to be in town to do a class for the employees at our local Woodcraft store. The owner knows I'm a fan of OSMO and invited me to attend. I will be all ears for sure.


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## Fotodog (Jan 2, 2019)

That's awesome Rich, please report what you learn.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> That's awesome Rich, please report what you learn.
> 
> - Fotodog


The presentation was yesterday. Here are some of the highlights:

- Osmo Polyx-Oil and TopOil are the same product. The TopOil is more expensive because they have to pay a fee to list the Euro food safe rating. Things are more strict in Europe, and that rating is required for food contact. Polyx is just as food safe, just not rated as such. Typical bureaucratic stuff.

- The Extra Thin is intended for exotics as a first coat to get better penetration. I had been using it as a penetrating sealer on all woods which is not needed-just exotics. He also mentioned walnut, but I'm not sure I fully understood what he was getting at, but at any rate, use the Extra Thin as a first coat on walnut too.

- The UV Protection Oil has no wax. I'm using it on a new front entry door for the house and I'd noticed it doesn't have the same look and feel as Polyx. It's also intended for vertical surfaces, not outdoor table tops.

- For application he recommends the white 3M pads. You can also make an Osmo-style brush by trimming the bristles on a natural bristle brush down to an inch or so. The idea is to work the oil into the wood, not simply apply it too the surface like you would with varnish. You can't overwork it, so get it in there good.

- Two coats is all you should ever need.

- The complete curing process takes two full weeks. I'd noticed that my pieces looked better after a few days than when I first did the finish. Well, I've gone back to pieces I did more than two weeks ago and they do look even better. It's also doesn't reach its full durability for that time.

- The pigmented wax finishes are Polyx, thinned out, with color added. You can apply an opaque layer, or wipe it back like stain to expose the grain. It should be topped with Polyx.

I'll post more if anything else pops into my head that he talked about. It went on for 90 minutes so he covered a lot. I'm glad I was invited. I learned a great deal and more importantly, learned that some of the things I was doing were either wrong, or simply not the best way to do them.


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## Fotodog (Jan 2, 2019)

Thanks Rich, appreciate you reporting back from your presentation. I learned several things from your post regarding product differences, application, and cure time.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Thanks Rich, appreciate you reporting back from your presentation. I learned several things from your post regarding product differences, application, and cure time.
> 
> - Fotodog


Thanks for starting the thread, Tim.


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## KelleyCrafts (May 17, 2016)

> Interesting read along. I like everyone else these days see all the ads for Odie s, Rubio, and several others not in the game just a few years ago, so there is interest.
> 
> Pottz said something that resonates with me. "feel" and for me it s as important it have that feel, as well as a look. Seeing as how I don t see anything that would make me jump ship I too will likely stick with an Oil finish (General Finishes), and probably a layer of wax afterward.
> 
> ...


I like the polyx line. It has the wax in it so it feels super nice, especially after a few days. I do apply it with the white 3M pads. The polyx line can be confusing for instance the satin can come in a couple different numbered cans, 3054 and 3043 appear to me to be the exact same thing. Everything on the can is identical other than the number. I didn't even realize there were two different ones until I ended up accidentally buying one with a different number. I can't seem to see a difference. Maybe Rich knows because he went through the seminar. I've also used the matte version and like that as well but the satin looks nicer on household stuff so that's usually my go to.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I like the polyx line. It has the wax in it so it feels super nice, especially after a few days. I do apply it with the white 3M pads. The polyx line can be confusing for instance the satin can come in a couple different numbered cans, 3054 and 3043 appear to me to be the exact same thing.
> 
> - KelleyCrafts


3043 has a higher solvent content so it's easier to apply. Their US website, osmocolorusa.com, is a pretty good source for info. It's getting better, but still has a long way to go to get up to the level of General Finishes.

Speaking of matte, the rep did suggest using satin as the base coat and going over it with matte if you want that lower sheen. I've only done it using matte for both coats and noticed that it does obscure the grain more than satin. Doing satin first and then matte should help, but I haven't tried it yet.


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## KelleyCrafts (May 17, 2016)

Thanks Rich, I never dug deep into it but I will next time. I just ordered polyx satin and then noticed the numbers were different on the cans when I had the old nearly empty can next to the new one. I didn't know there were two of them out there. I might not have ever known if I didn't have them side by side.


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