# About the Little Things



## mramseyISU (Mar 3, 2014)

I'm saving up for that exact saw. I plan on picking one up Christmas of 2018.


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

I was really appreciating those ZCI's the other day. That locking bail handle is a thing of beauty. I actually had an insert pop out of my Jet tablesaw, but never with the Sawstop. Nice feature, but like you say it's the little things.


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## richimage (Aug 30, 2013)

When I decided my retirement was going to be a conversion from computers to woodworking, I started to pick up CS tools, repair and update them until I was sure this was "for me"... Once the CSU (Chief Spousal Unit) and I agreed that it was, the first "real" tool I purchased was the PCS 1.75hp saw. I cut the majority of my right forefinger off on a 50's table saw in a Wood Hobby Shop in Germany it 1975, and did not want to repeat that fun…. almost two years later, I certainly agree that the saw is a winner in it's own right; friends who come over try it on a cut or two, and just mutter to themselves. Good luck with your SS!


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

I have had my PCS for just about 5 years … paraphrasing a familiar slogan here: "I'll give you my SawStop when you pry it from my cold, dead hands".


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## diverlloyd (Apr 25, 2013)

Good review and it's nice to see a review with a tool that is dirty from use.


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## MagicalMichael (Dec 26, 2016)

Thanks for the detailed review. The review video at Highland Woodworking seemed to imply that the stop feature required proprietary blades. I don't think this is true but would welcome having that confirmed. The idea of replacing my two rip blades, a cross cut blade, a combination blade and an 80 tooth veneer blade is a deal breaker for me.

Michael


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

> The review video at Highland Woodworking seemed to imply that the stop feature required proprietary blades.


Never heard that before, but the answer is no … SawStop uses industry-standard 10" blades with 5/8" arbor. For dado blades, it requires 8"(6" not compatible with the braking system).


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

> Thanks for the detailed review. The review video at Highland Woodworking seemed to imply that the stop feature required proprietary blades. I don t think this is true but would welcome having that confirmed. The idea of replacing my two rip blades, a cross cut blade, a combination blade and an 80 tooth veneer blade is a deal breaker for me.
> 
> Michael
> 
> - MagicalMichael


Nope, the only thing you need to do is make sure that a new blade might need the feeler gauge to adjust the gap between blade and sensor. Also, they mention that a very thin kerf blade might not withstand and actuate well should the saw safety feature be triggered.


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## richimage (Aug 30, 2013)

Far from being an expert, my experience has been as follows: for a Dado set, the Dado cartridge must be used. It is sized for 8" blades which might be wider than a single blade. Changing from regular to Dado cartridges is a few seconds once you have done it a few times, and the little yellow setup tool makes it easy to check alignment. The thin blade issue has also come up, and I use one (in a limited fashion) since SawStop recommends they may not perform properly due to physical limitations. I only use the thin kerf blade for rips, and just take the chance. So far, no "engagements" from flesh contact, but did have two metal touch bangs that are expensive enough to enhance the learning curve!


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

My saw was shipped with a thin-kerf blade.

About 6 months after I got my saw, I forgot to tighten the aluminum fence on my Incra miter gauge, it touched the blade during a cross-cut, and BANG! Won't do that again!

I replaced the SawStop-branded blade with Freud 50-tooth combo blades … haven't had a problem cutting anything.

I have a spare set of cartridges (one standard and one dado).


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## MagicalMichael (Dec 26, 2016)

Thanks to everyone for the clarification. I have a 26 year old General 350 saw, which was and is a great saw but e the Excaliber overarm dust collector has some limitations, and the saw can no longer be fitted with pawls or splitter, so I am thinking about an upgrade. I have two rip blades, a crosscut blade, a combination blade, and a veneer blade…. so replacing them would have put a serious dent in my checkbook. My dado set is 6", so that's an add on.

I'm getting a new chimney and a new roof this month, so a new saw may still be more than a little down the road!

Michael


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## MagicalMichael (Dec 26, 2016)

"About 6 months after I got my saw, I forgot to tighten the aluminum fence on my Incra miter gauge, it touched the blade during a cross-cut, and BANG! Won't do that again!"

You are not alone in that. I have an Osborne Miter Gage and when it was almost new a small cut off got caught under the Excaliber Dust collector. Just as I was turning the saw off to retrieve it, the piece wedged between the blade and the finger hole behind it. The miter gage was over the wooden insert. The force pulled the insert out and flung the miter gage off of the saw. When I told this to the Osborne people they said they had never heard of such an accident, but many people, including Norm Abrams have had to buy replacement parts from running into the blade!
Michael


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## PJKS (Dec 21, 2016)

I love my Sawstop… I miscalculated my aluminum miter fence as well….BANG !!!
I now use an oak face …..


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I think that Sawstop has a deal with Incra so they can sell more cartridges.

My oops with my Incra miter gauge is mounted above my saw as a reminder of an instant of stupid.

I also added a wooden fence in front of the aluminum one.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

I route T-tracks that match my Incra's bolt locations in MDF strips … gives me and adjustable, sacrificial fence on my miter gauge that I can just toss when it gets too chewed up. I do about a half dozen at a time once every year or two.


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## CyberDyneSystems (May 29, 2012)

Thanks for the GREAT review.
When we picked up an ICS about 8 years ago, my feelings mirrored yours very much. (though my review was far less detailed) 
I was not at all ready for all the little touches that make using the saw so much nicer than my old Unisaws, or the Powermatics etc. I have used in the past.

Some additional facts for the following discussions above:

- Sawstop does not require a proprietary blade. Even our Freud blades with red anti stick coating trigger the brake just fine. The teeth are never insulated.

- For Dado you MUST use an 8" stack with the dedicated Dado brake cartridge and a dado throat plate. Swapping all of the above takes hardly any more time than swapping a Dado blade and throat plate on a normal saw. (once you get used to it)

- The Sawstop fence is nice, but it's in no way unique. It is a direct copy of the original Biesemeyer fence. Current Biesemeyer's are being sold by Delta (they bought them) and are of lower quality and QC than the SS fence.


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## MagicalMichael (Dec 26, 2016)

"I was not at all ready for all the little touches that make using the saw so much nicer than my old Unisaws, or the Powermatics etc. I have used in the past."

What are your other favorite features?

I notice that the Professional Sawstop has 2 1/2 less table in front of the blade than my General 350. I'm motivated by the splitter, pawls and superior dust collection, along with the stop, but wonder how often I will miss those 2 !/2 inches. 
Michael


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

> "I was not at all ready for all the little touches that make using the saw so much nicer than my old Unisaws, or the Powermatics etc. I have used in the past."
> 
> What are your other favorite features?
> 
> ...


The saw tables are about the same size. There is 10 1/2" in front of the sawstop with the blade fully up. I can't imagine putting the blade 2 or more inches back from that. You'd be near the rear of the saw. Since the tables are the same size yours must be back a lot.


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## MagicalMichael (Dec 26, 2016)

My General saw is 28" deep. With the blade set back 2", there is 1" less on the out feed than the Sawstop, which is 27". I have always had an out feed table so I never thought about that.

Their website says that the mobile base is not compatible with their integrated out feed table. I don't know why, but it seems too bad.

Michael


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## CyberDyneSystems (May 29, 2012)

I'm using the ICS, which has a 30" table, with about 12" in front of the blade, so not really part of your comparison. The extra distance is nice for some operations, but it's not one of the specs I am very concerned by.

My own favorite features include:

- Great Fence included

- Love the power switch location.

- The easily swapped guard/splitter to riving knife. (like 15 seconds)

- Giant wrenches and easy access for balde swaps. I am not a "combination blade" kind of guy, I use rip, Crosscut, plywood and laminate blades and swap them as needed. SawStop makes this a lot easier than on my old Unisaw.


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## Hanugr (Oct 16, 2016)

Love my sawstop! Originally got the 3hp and 52" wing but cut it down to 36" after a year or two due to shop space issues and the fact that it just ended up becoming a place to collect junk.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

Thanks for the nice review. I've had my Saw Stop for several years and have had no problems with it.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## TonyInPA (May 27, 2017)

Great review of this saw. I really liked the detail you included particularly: "With a little cleaning once and awhile I can avoid the hard turning screws of my old saw as the mechanism shouldn't get clogged." as this recently happened with the Porter Cable Table saw I own. I was in the middle of a project I was working on and tried to push through it fighting with the plastic wheel that raises and lowers the blade. BIG MISTAKE on my part. The plastic wheel snapped and now I have to come up with an alternative handle as it's outside of warranty. I have been looking towards Sawstop and Powermatic saws as I'm ready to invest more in a quality saw. Now the question becomes for me 220 or 110.

Question for those that mention triggering the Stop on metal…when the bang occurs, does it also trigger a mini-heart attack? Also, cost of Incra versus new stop and blade, I would rather buy a new stop/blade.


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## MagicalMichael (Dec 26, 2016)

So…. I took the plunge and bought the Professional saw with a 3 HP motor and a 52" rip guide . I have spent much of the last week putting it together (and still trying to sell my very good General 350). This morning I finally got to making a pair of rip cuts and a pair of cross cuts. I write this to share my own observations.

I wouldn't dispute anything that has ben written about the fit and finish of this saw. The instructions for assembly are the very best I have ever encountered in my 72+ years of living. Any small problems I had were largely reading and understanding on my part. With one exception. The unpacking instructions advise that two people roll the saw off the pallet onto the styrofoam leaving the bottom edge hanging over. My wife and I did this, then she left. I opened the assembly instructions, which immediately told me to be sure to leave the bottom bolt holes exposed. There i was trying to lift and shimmy the 300+ pounds across the styrofoam another two inches.

The assembly was also smoothly designed, again with one exception. They called for holding each of the extension wings while bolting them on from below. These are slabs of forged steel about 12×28 and weighing 30+ lbs apiece. Clearly a two or three person job. Installing the 6' long rails is also best done by two people.

I had four bolts, four lock washers and eight washers left over, which gave me fits until I concluded they must have been meant for a contractors saw.

The miter slots were dead on and the rip guide required only the slightest touch of adjustment to get it square & plum.

As for operation. The initial cuts, with my blades, were extremely smooth and easy. However I was a disappointed in the dust collection. I run mine with the Jet two stage, 1 1/2 HP motor. The main suction is quite strong but the overarm suction is marginal and left considerable dust on the top and even down into the front fence rail. I can't find any obstruction and am left wondering how the small suction I can feel could ever do the job I need it to do.

Michael


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## RCCinNC (Jul 4, 2017)

My first post!
I purchased a Sawstop PCS w/ the 52" fence earlier this year. After years of safe woodworking I had "the accident," and decided I needed to protect myself from, well…me, or the individual within that apparently coexists with that guy who has been methodical and safety conscious for over thirty years when it comes to table saws. I'm fortunate, and can still count to ten, but decided a Sawstop was a must have. 
I have a General pre-riving knife 650 that I dearly love, so instead of selling it, I bolted both saws together and attached an older Excalibur sliding table to the left of the Sawstop. The General is for special setups, dados and the like…setups that (theoretically) require a great deal of thought, and hence inherent safety.
My thoughts on the Sawstop:
No doubt, a beautifully engineered and thought out saw. Exceptional fit and finish, amazing adjustability, and from what I've heard…customer service second to none. Still, my heart's with the General. Like me, it's old school, but beefier and more heavily built. ; ) The fence is not a 36" "home shop" fence, but 42" long, with a 28.5" deep table….the extra depth in front of the blade. I'd classify the PCS as more of a hybrid saw. It has cabinet mounted trunnions but they are light duty compared to the General. The General's 3hp. Baldor motor seems more powerful than the PCS as well. 
Dont get me wrong. I love my PCS, and the confidence it gives me to continue doing what I love post injury cannot be measured in dollars. The General is way behind in the overall adjustability and feature set. But for those looking for something equivalent to the cast iron of the General 650 or even more so, the venerable PM 66, than you'll need to go to the Sawstop Industrial saw. The 3K you pay for the safety is the difference between the PCS and the 3K you spend for the cast iron and industrial build of a truly heavy duty cabinet saw…or you can get all that with the ICS…but expect to pay the premium.
Still, despite my ramblings…I'd purchase a PCS again in a heart beat. Only wish I'd had one before "stupid me" decided to shorten my left hand a tad. It's an exceptionally well built and designed saw. Highly recommended for the home hobbiest, light use professional.


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## MagicalMichael (Dec 26, 2016)

Interesting take RCC. I considered doing something like that, using each as an outfeed table for the other but ran into four problems. The miter guides didn't line up; the height was a bit off ( at least on my shop floor; getting to the back of the machines to access the dust collection would be a challenge; and finally the $1600 I got for the 650 & excalibur dust collector paid for half the new saw. The 650 is a great saw and if General at least sold a good riffing knife & pawls retrofit I certainly would have kept it. It is sad to watch what was once a company making great tools go so far downhill.

I have been up to my nostrils trying to put tung oil on a large project with the humidity in the high 70s so haven't really had a chance to put the Sawstop through a good test. Next project is a large butcher block for my daughters kitchen island which should teach me a lot about this saw.

Michael


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## RCCinNC (Jul 4, 2017)

Mike- 
Trust me, it wasn't easy! Getting it done became a challenge I couldn't let go…and there were a few times I stooped below my general level of congeniality. My saws are side by side, with both the Sawstop wings between the two saws, I shifted the Sawstop fence rail to cover both saws, the Excalibur sliding table attached on the left to the main cabinet of the Sawstop. The saw heights are different, and the cabinet setbacks related to the tables are also different, making shimming and leveling a major pain. I was down to fine shimming with economy aluminum flashing. I finely got smart, clamped the table saw rails to the front and back, and aligned everything to the floor as one unit. And then I attached the Excalibur, another challenge entirely. The outfeed table is bolted to both saws, and the Excalibur is bolted to the Sawstop, the outfeed table, and the floor. The set up is great, fences are parallel for both saws and the alignment remains stable. I'm kind of shocked it worked out so well. Probably lost a year of my life in the process, but so it goes.
Regarding the 650, General did, and possibly still do have a retrofit kit for a riving knife. I considered purchasing it, but it was $800 and required major surgery. They recommended having a General technician do the work if you weren't comfortable doing the retrofit yourself. Given that I hadn't seen too many General techs hanging around just chomping at the bit to do the conversion for me, I decided to pass on that option. I might still get a Shark Guard for it, but for now, the coffers are pretty empty.
Some of the General International tools review fairly well, but like you…I'm saddened that the red maple leaf is no longer. General never had a big following here in the States relative to Delta and Powermatic, so service parts etc. we're always harder to come by, but the quality and durability of their equipment was amazing. The 650 will easily be making saw dust far after I'm no longer…it's that solid. 
The Sawstop is amazing in its own way though. I love using it, and though I prefer the General for its old school heavy cast iron, even if you ignore the hotdog preservation tech, the Sawstop's well thought out engineering and design is far superior. Then again, I'm old school too… In everything I've thrown at it, the PCS has performed flawlessly, it's me that just needs to loosen up!
Enjoy your PCS Mike!...and lay off that tung oil. I'm already shy a few too many brain cells myself! ; )


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## Norton69 (Jun 14, 2017)

I use one of these in the woodshop class where I teach.

I was very surprised one day when I went to cut some Caulk Board material down to size.

It looks like 1/8" hard board with some very flat dark grey paint on it.

Went to cut it and the moment the painted surface touched the saw. BANG!!

Paint must be conductive. Who knew.

Thought it would save people some money. New cartridge, New blade required.

They should make a list of materials you should avoid on the SawStop website.


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## MagicalMichael (Dec 26, 2016)

A question about the Sawstop table top. I bought a Sawstop just a few months ago and have been pretty happy with it, with one glaring exception. The saw arrived with two brown stains, each about 1/4×2" long. They did not seem to interfere wit the saws performance so I ignored them. But since then the saw has accumulated more stains from I no not where. It now has more stains on it than the 27 year old General saw it replaced. Nothing but wood has ever been on the surface and simply wiping the top down does not remove them.

Has anyone else experienced this? Have you found a safe repair?

Michael


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## craftsman on the lake (Dec 27, 2008)

> A question about the Sawstop table top. I bought a Sawstop just a few months ago and have been pretty happy with it, with one glaring exception. The saw arrived with two brown stains, each about 1/4×2" long. They did not seem to interfere wit the saws performance so I ignored them. But since then the saw has accumulated more stains from I no not where. It now has more stains on it than the 27 year old General saw it replaced. Nothing but wood has ever been on the surface and simply wiping the top down does not remove them.
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this? Have you found a safe repair?
> 
> ...


Wow, no I've had the saw for awhile now. The only thing I've done is paste wax the top… I do that to my tools to make things slide easier. And I figure it's a moisture protection thing. Brown stains on the top sounds like rust?? Are you in a hight moisture area? I'll bet Sawstop might like to see that. Could it be something about this particular machine?


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## RCCinNC (Jul 4, 2017)

I have noticed that my Sawstop is more susceptible to rust staining than my General. The Sawstop has an exceptionally fine table top finish….and though I have no real basis for saying this, I assumed that such staining is more noticeable for that reason. The fact that you had those marks from the start doesn't seem right though, given how well the tops/ wings were protected for shipping.

You mentioned humidity in an earlier post. My shop has a dehumidifier, Which I highly recommend for those of us who live in high humidity climates. I keep it at 40% humidity, and even then, I find myself buffing with a fine finishing pad and Boeshield at least every other week. I tend to perspire, and cast iron and sweaty forearms are not a great combination. The General's table top seems much less prone to rust, but it's top has always been darker and mill finish more "industrial functional" than the PCS's shiny "wow factor" almost see yourself finish. From what I remember from an article I read years ago, General used a type of cast iron that differed from the norm, something that for whatever reason, they "were quite proud of"...so that may also be a contributing factor in the difference you see.

Of the few real complaints I have had on my list regarding the PCS, rust susceptibility has been on my radar, but in the long run, it has simply made me maintain my equipment more responsibly. It's kind of satisfying bringing back that brand new shine anyway, so the issue has never really bothered me.


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## MagicalMichael (Dec 26, 2016)

I don't think the spots I have are rust. I checked the owners manual and they recommended cleaning with WD 40 and Scotch Brite pad 7448. Not sure what the latter is but will look into it. I tried to photograph the stains but it's a challenge because of the glare.

Michael


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## RCCinNC (Jul 4, 2017)

Can't imagine that it could be anything but rust…the early beginnings of which looks more like a dark staining than actual rust. Photos would be useful, but I'm also a photographer…and know exactly how difficult it would be to get those pics!
I wouldn't get too concerned.. I suspect the WD40, the 3M buffing pad and a little elbow grease will clear things up.


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## MagicalMichael (Dec 26, 2016)

I tracked down the scotch brite 7448 pads. Oddle they are not on tthe mfg web site but auto parts places & walmart carry them. I ended up having to buy a box of 20, which may a 1 1/2 lifetime supply. Anyway, along with wd40 it worked quite well. I rubbed gently till the slurry darkened a bit, much like a sharpening stone. I discovered that I need to work straight up & down, as a circular pattern left tiny scratch mark. The deeper, original spots need multiple applications but eventually it all cleaned up nicely. Covered it with dry lube. Thanks for the help.


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