# Table saw HELP new unisaw or old Powermatic 66



## DriftWood07 (Dec 12, 2011)

I am torn between a "new" unisaw model 36-L352 that is only two years old and will have three years left on the warranty or an older Powermatic 66. The delta is selling for $1800 and comes with the rolling base and an extra dado insert. The powermatic has the 50" fence and a route-R-lift and the seller hasn't figured a price on it yet and was wondering what others would recommend between the two. I think the Powermatic is a PM 66 only because of the "made in the USA" sticker on the saw. I would appreciate feedback if you think otherwise. What would be the most people would be willing to pay for each? Also, how would one find out what year the Powermatic is by looking at the SN? All feedback is welcome.

Personally, I think I might like the powermatic 66 more than the Delta, but if the PM is a PM2000 I will be leaning toward the Delta. No real reason for my liking the PM over the Delta, just their reputation of the 66.
-John


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Neither… unless the PM is $800 or so.

If you've got $1800 for a used table saw look for an SCMI or similar
Euro saw. The Italians and Germans have the edge in table saw
design. No American manufacturer has ever made a format
slider as far as I know.

Those dudes selling those saws have more saw than they need and
are looking to unload their space and lack of talent problem. As a cash
buyer, you've got more power than you realize.


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## LeeBarker (Aug 6, 2010)

Loren makes a good point, as always.

But if it's one or the other, I can think of only two things that could possibly differentiate them-left tilt vs. right tilt. and motor hp. The rest is just whistling bells. It's likely the PM is left tilt; the US could be either. Other than that, they both have an arbor that goes around real fast, a table that's flat, heavy, and accommodates things like fences and miter gauges and on the front is a switch that says "off" and "on."

Kindly,

Lee


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## rustynails (Jun 23, 2011)

If it's a Pm 66 and single phase they are hard to get if in good shape and are very desirable with the old school people. I had a Pm 66 that I just sold not to long age and I have a new Delta currently. Both saws are good and will do you a good job. If looking at the Pm 66 check the age and if the bearings, motor and fence are in good shape if those are in good shape and the price is right it might be the way to go. I personally like my new Uni-saw and am very happy with my decision to sell the PM66 and get the Uni mainly for all the new features on the Delta compared to the old design of the Pm66. In the end I thick it's more what the prices are and how much you really want to spend. Also ask if the PM66 was used in a commercial shop as most have spent their lives there and have been worked hard? Also have you looked at the Delta's in person as they have some great features on them compared to the old designs?


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I've had a PM 66 for years and have enjoyed having it and has done a great job. The PM66 should not be anywhere near $1800 . I think $500-$900 depending on HP and condition is much more realistic .


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## doyoulikegumwood (Jun 21, 2007)

I agree with jim when buying use money talks and the other stuff walks and frankly 1800 bucks for a used saw no mater how old it is is a bit much to ask


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

That "new" Delta sounds fairly expensive if realistically it's a "used" saw. Most used Uni's of that age would sell in the $900 to $1200 range…the warranty is nice, but not worth $600+ IMHO.


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## SnowyRiver (Nov 14, 2008)

I am a Powermatic fan, so I tend to lean towards Powermatic, but Delta makes a good saw too. To find out what year the Powermatic was made, look at the serial number. Usually with older PM saws the first two digits is the year of manufacture. I bought a used Powermatic several years ago (PM66) and it was a 1988 model. It had extention tables on the outfeed side and the right side of the main table. It also came with some Forrest blades and a couple of jigs. It didnt have a moble base. No rust. Its a 3 hp single phase saw (you can see it in my gallery) and I paid $1650 for it. Its been a gem and runs like new. If you work Craig's List and Ebay (I bought mine on Ebay from a guy near me) you can usually find the later model PM 66s for around $1200 to $1600 depending on what they have. Some used PM saws may be less depending on age and condition. I always looked for one that looked like it was well taken care of…no rust etc. and one that I could turn on and see how it runs. Good Luck !


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

I'm I the only one that thinks the Delta is a bit high? I'm with the OP, liking the PM for no genuinely good reason other than I like them. Loren's right, of course, that you could probably find a used euro for the price of the Delta. I'd go PM if it's not shot.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

*Am I the only one that thinks the Delta is a bit high? *

...Nope! ;-)


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## Beginningwoodworker (May 5, 2008)

How much is the Powermatic 66? I have a Delta Unisaw. But I think the Unisaw is over price.


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## DriftWood07 (Dec 12, 2011)

Thanks for all of the great information thus far! I thought I posted pics of both table saws the other night for everyone to see and comment on. From reading all of the responses, it sounds as though the pics are not there to view. Let me know if you can or can't see them and I will try to get them up tonight as they are definitely worth viewing. 
-John


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^Sorry, KnotScott, I kind of skimmed the posts


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## DriftWood07 (Dec 12, 2011)

Update!
Below are the photos of both saws in question. The Unisaw is newer, two year old model, with the "made in the USA of US and foreign components" emblem and the Powermatic looks newer but not sure what year and maybe you will know roughly by looking at it. The PM has a Gold series sticker on it and don't know if they did that for a certain year or during certain years.

Enjoy!


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## SnowyRiver (Nov 14, 2008)

I would like having both blade adjustment wheels on the front like the Delta has, but that Powermatic looks mighty nice. It almost looks like it has been hardly used. It seems to me they were doing the gold series machines in the early to mid 2000s, just before they came out with the retro style like the PM2000. What is the serial number? You might be able to tell by the serial.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

After seeing the Photos they both look pretty new. since the PM falls in the $2800- 3200 new then $1800 for the PM is not bad at all. I'm guessing it's a lot newer then a PM66


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## stevepeterson (Dec 17, 2009)

Considering the amount of dust on the floor, the PM66 looks to be in awesome shape. Except for the dust inside, it doesn't even look like it has ever been used. It is definately a PM66 and not a PM2000. I have a 2005 PM66 and it looks very similar, except mine does not say "gold series".

I think that a price of around $1500 for the PM would be very good. Make sure it is single phase.


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## DriftWood07 (Dec 12, 2011)

Thanks guys for the continued support. I will be looking at it tomorrow morning and can provide the serial number in the early am. Steve, could you provide more insight as what to look for when looking at serial numbers on this saw? Wayne gave an example above and mentioned the "older" powermatics have the last two digits of the year in the first series of numbers, i.e. If the unit is a 2003 year would it be something like this: 03xxx or something like that? What does your saws serial number sequence read like Steve? You don't have to put the whole SN sequence just what I need to look for to help me find the year. Also, what year did PM start making the PM2000?

Thanks for all of your wisdom everybody, you have all been so helpful.
-John


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## 2bigfeet (Jan 24, 2011)

Boy, this is a tough one. I'm thinking what would I do. I have a Unisaw I bought in the 80's that is still going strong. I bought a new PM2000 last winter and love it. My initial thought is to go for the new Unisaw. It has a lot of really nice features. I almost bought that over the PM2000. It was a coin toss, but came down to the PM2000 being around $500 less at the time with rebates and free shipping. No regrets, like I said I love the PM. That Unisaw looks like its in a production shop and has already had tons of board feet of wood pushed through it. Question is… why is it being sold?

The Powermatic pictured looks like a much older model than the PM2000. Like I said… tough one.

Here is my setup…


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## rustynails (Jun 23, 2011)

I have a new Uni-Saw and like it a lot but by the looks of the two pictures I would go with the PM66. The Delta looks like it has been ued hard. If the price is right the PM is the way to go by the looks of these two saws.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

I missed the fact that the Uni was the new style, so while $1800 isn't a rip roaring deal, it doesn't seem quite as high as I initially thought. On the hand, now that you've got those pics up….that PM66 looks brand spanking new! I'd be proud to own either one!


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## DriftWood07 (Dec 12, 2011)

The saw is a 2002 PM 66 and is virtually new. It will be auctioned and not sure what a 10 yr old saw will bring in like new condition. I played with the blade raising and lowering it and it turned really hard. I dont think anything is wrong with it just been quite a while since it was used or maintained, waxing and such, as an older gentleman bought it new during retirement and fell into bad health. I would like a pm 66 but they are hard to find in middle America. Thx


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## SnowyRiver (Nov 14, 2008)

It probably will go for about half of what it cost new. I am thinking around $1500 or maybe more if there is someone there that is determined to get it. I am sure you probably are aware, but will mention it anyway, there are locking knobs on the wheels that raise, lower, and tilt the blade. Were these totally loosened when you tried it? It also may need some greese to make it easier to raise and lower. What are you thinking? Were you going to bid on it?


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## DriftWood07 (Dec 12, 2011)

Wayne I first loosened the knob and tried to turn the wheel and it wouldn't turn. I moved it back and forth and it eventually moved up and down, just feels like it needs to be lubricated. There seems to be a lot of buzz around the woodworking tools and this gentleman has really nice stuff. We will see where it goes. My initial though was a little more than $1500 because it looks so good, comes with a porter cable router Model 7518, already in the route-R-lift, a woodhaven deluxe miter gauge and some kind of router looking fence in the original sealed plastic. Wheew!
I think the auction will go into the evening though


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

that PM just keeps getting better.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

I was in the "you can't lose, either way" camp, but … I agree with *Bertha*:

Ya' know ….

Life's short. If you had to "overpay," by a few hundred bucks (and could), to get a top-of-the-line saw, in excellent condition-one that could last you forever-I sure would.

Good luck !


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^yeah, it's really a no lose deal unless they need a major overhaul. I already liked the PM but 1) having seen it and 2) learning about the extras, it's clearly my choice.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

I'm usually not so impressionable, but … I just HAD to make myself a cheese sandwich with [wait for it] mustard.

There's a sign, in that, somewhere ;-)


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## mcase (Oct 31, 2009)

I had a later model PM 66 - about 2002 or 03 and was not at all happy with it. Lots of run out, untrue table, miis-aligned worm gear, the cheapest cowling imaginable. These later models were made in midst of PM's move to China and believe me the American workers knew it. I know solid guys like A1jim have had good ones, but I would be very shy about the last ones made. I sold mine when it was three years old for $1300.00 and was glad to see it go.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^I get it, Neil. The color of mustard. But…MUSTARD? On a cheese sandwich? Maybe I'm doing it wrong


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## JSilverman (Mar 31, 2011)

buy the powermatic… and ship it to me!

either would do well- the condition and extras make the PM very attractive…


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Spicy mustard.

Lettuce. Tomato. Onion. Good wheat bread (sliced with a near-mint PM 66 … just to keep it on topic).

Try it, and then tell me you don't love it


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## DriftWood07 (Dec 12, 2011)

WOW guys some sucker just bought the table saw above for $2800 that's not a typo, he paid $2800 dollars for a table saw that is ten years old when he could have bought a new one for that price. Sure I wanted it and my top was $2300 but no way was I going to pay that much. I will keep you updated on whatever saw I buy and share my progress on the baby crib I want to build for our first baby that is coming in April.


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## SnowyRiver (Nov 14, 2008)

Wow is right John. He apparently didnt know the price of new ones. Well, dont give up…there's others out there…keep an eye on Craig's List and Ebay…keep us posted.


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## doninvegas (Jun 10, 2010)

I saw an add on CL here is Vegas for a 2002 Uni with a 50" Biesemeyer fence, 48×48 outfeed table, a router table in the wing with it's own fence and he was thoughing in his crosscut sled all fo $1800. Now that's a deal. I don't have 220 or the room for it otherwise I'd be cutting with it by now.


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## johnsonj (Oct 31, 2011)

I too had a 2002 PM66 and it was a wonderful machine. I still miss the deep hum of that motor. I will say this. When I sold mine to switch to a sawstop, I sold the exact configuration you stated for $1800 (exactly what I paid for it 3 years prior). I put in on CL and had phone calls from OKC to Houston. Tack on that the PM looks like it just had the grease paper removed and you got a deal you will be happy with.

To my P66's end, it found a home I was pleased to place it in. A retired gentleman from Houston drove up to Dallas to pick it up. He had just started out in WW a couple years ago and was looking to get some pro tools. It touched my heart when he pulled the power switch and said, "That sounds beautiful. I will take it." I was almost reliving my first moments with the saw  Best part is, I know that it went to a home where it will be cared for.


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## TCCcabinetmaker (Dec 14, 2011)

The only thing I've ever had against the powermatics is the danged fences. I've used old deltas and powermatics quite a bit. The only thing I never liked about the powermatic is that when I got to slinging wood in the high paced sweat shop I used to work at, the fence would tend to slide a bit every once in a while. And when you're being held to 256ths accuracy, a sliding fence means you get to recut 500 or so pieces.

Now for typical use both are just fine.

Sliding table saws are usually best used for certain applications, and are definately not the one tool to beat them all.

You may also try IRSauctions (they are not government) but tend to sell of some serious equipment


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^I think that's one of the reasons Loren's always pitching the euro sliders for production. There are a few guys here at LJs that actually own Elmos, lol. I've been lucky with my saw, an old as dirt JET. It's got the original fence and locks down like Lorena Bobbett (sp?). I'm looking for a vintage Oliver. The bigger and nastier the better. The only one I've found nearby was some behemoth with a 16" blade or something ridiculous like that. I've had an eye out for a used Martin for a long time. I had a line on one in TX but someone snapped it up for a similarly ridiculous amount of money. I asked if the buyer was MedicKen, lol; they told me they couldn't tell me


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