# Combination square set cheap. What y'all think?



## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)




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## Axis39 (Jul 3, 2019)

It really doesn't matter how much it costs, or what brand name is on the side, as long as they're square and the measurement increments are accurate.

I have a few combo squares, some cheap, some pricey… The one I use the most is a little 6" 'Blemished' PEC. The next most used one is the 16" one I bought at the big box store (Can't remember what brand it is).

I have a Starrett 12", but the rule is stained and sometimes hard to read. Although, it is much smoother and holds better than the big box store one. I like using it more… Except for that pesky, not being able to read all the tick marks thing.

You could throw 40 bucks at it, but before you just start using it, just double check square and accuracy. Don't accept less, or you'll be miserable in the long run!


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

I know for a fact that these are the quality weight, and accuracy you are looking for. Same here at Harry Epstein

I love Lee Valley. but Robin, and the gang do sometimes get some stinkers, that aren't even good Chinese junk. The one thing about LV, if you hate it, you have 30 days to send it back.


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## rad457 (Jun 15, 2013)

Was looking at them this morning,was heading into the store today to pick up the latest M & T edition
Picked up an I-gauge a while back, is well built and square but doesn't slide as smooth as the Starrett.
$49.00 CAN. here, at that price really can't go wrong Worth a look at least?


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

> It really doesn t matter how much it costs, or what brand name is on the side, as long as they re square and the measurement increments are accurate.


I disagree here on the long run. I have bought plenty of squares the past 30 years. Had an old Stanley and purchased a brand new Empire at the big box store. Both were perfectly square. I emphasize "were". Cheap squares that go out of square are worse than not having a square at all. The Empire was made of such a cheap pot metal that I could resquare it perfectly, and sliding the hardened blade back and forth a few times would get it out of square. If you dropped it a foot it would go out of square. If you looked at it out of your left eye it would go out of square. When you have a hardened steel blade sliding on metal that as massively softer and of poor quality, you end up with a square you don't trust. I ended up with like 3 cheaper squares that I didn't trust after wondering why some furniture joints weren't going together right.  The 3 cheap squares and the ruined wood cost way more than a new Starrett.


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## MadMark (Jun 3, 2014)




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## jonah (May 15, 2009)

Every single one of the PEC squares I have (2 4" double, 1 6" combo, 1 12" combo) are all square as square can be, and none have ever gone out of square.


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

I'm a square junkie. Not a serious overdoser, but I have too many squares. I have at least a half dozen combo squares of various makes and lengths, and 3 or 4 double squares. If you haven't used a Starret combo, or maybe a Mitsutoyo, then you don't understand the difference between a good square and a great square. In combo and double squares, what stands out to me is the smoothness of the mechanism, and the ability to accurately read the measurement in challenging lighting situations. If I'm ever in a "what do you mean"? situation in person, I'll hand someone a PEC and a LV double square (4 or 6"). Try them side by side. You will feel and see the difference. Same with, say a Starret and an iGaging 12" combo. In my case, everything is square as well as I could possibly need in a woodworking shop. But one is just okay and the other is a joy to use.


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## rad457 (Jun 15, 2013)

Looked at them at the store, they are an I-gauge set. Come in a nice box, but still made in China


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

For me the weight says a lot. The PECs are heavy, Starretts pretty much are too, your classic BORG squares are like a feather. I agree with SMP about the magic isn't one time being square, it's staying square through just normal use.


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## rad457 (Jun 15, 2013)

I-gauge well built, heavy, decent machining, just not as a refined finish or as smooth as Starrett, haven't had mine long enough to voice an opinion other than way better than Borg Empire


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## Axis39 (Jul 3, 2019)

> It really doesn t matter how much it costs, or what brand name is on the side, as long as they re square and the measurement increments are accurate.
> 
> I disagree here on the long run. I have bought plenty of squares the past 30 years. Had an old Stanley and purchased a brand new Empire at the big box store. Both were perfectly square. I emphasize "were". Cheap squares that go out of square are worse than not having a square at all. The Empire was made of such a cheap pot metal that I could resquare it perfectly, and sliding the hardened blade back and forth a few times would get it out of square. If you dropped it a foot it would go out of square. If you looked at it out of your left eye it would go out of square. When you have a hardened steel blade sliding on metal that as massively softer and of poor quality, you end up with a square you don't trust. I ended up with like 3 cheaper squares that I didn't trust after wondering why some furniture joints weren't going together right. The 3 cheap squares and the ruined wood cost way more than a new Starrett.
> 
> - SMP


I certainly can't argue with your logic!

In fact, I won't disagree with you at all. Although, I have not had the same experience (But, I don't think I've purchased any Empire stuff…).

I would always prefer a Starrett! LOL But, they have gotten so expensive, even used, it's hard for me to recommend them when someone has come asking a question about something that is, what, half the price?

I did recommend the PEC stuff, and I'll stand by that. It may not feel as velevty smooth as my Starett. But, my little PEC is square, tight and accurate.

But, yes, buy once cry once… I do try to do that whenever I can.


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## sansoo22 (May 7, 2019)

> I did recommend the PEC stuff, and I ll stand by that. It may not feel as velevty smooth as my Starett. But, my little PEC is square, tight and accurate.
> 
> But, yes, buy once cry once… I do try to do that whenever I can.
> 
> - Axis39


Last Christmas I got my first PEC square. A little 4" double square that I quite enjoy. Its not as smooth as my vintage Union which is like hot butter smooth but the PEC is more accurate. I recently inherited a couple machinist reference squares from my uncle and made the mistake of checking all my squares with them. While the Union 4 piece set is good enough for woodworking, its also very old and in spectacular condition for its age. I may retire it in favor of a PEC combination set. Would love to go Starrett but not sure I want to spend over $300.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

I think Starrett has a lot of Legion behind the name. Here is a PEC reject, standing right next to a 9 year old Starrett. Note the heaviness of the PEC's frame. It weighs easily twice the Starrett's weight, and talk about silky, it is much smoother to use than the Starrett. I pretty much keep the Starrett around for show. I use the PEC.


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## WilsonLR (Oct 21, 2021)

Why is the PEC casting tarnished while the Starret is not?

As someone with less time ahead to continue enjoying woodwork than behind, one of the big tool regrets I have is in the square department. FWIW, in the 1980's when I bought out Grandfather's shop, I quickly discovered his weighty Carpenter Union Made in USA combination square was never square. It slid like crap. It spent the last 30 years in a drawer. Even the rule, as heavy as it is, was hard to read and after 30 years of tarnish, even worse. The 12" Stanley miter square I bought back then is square to this day. But its rule was always hard to read and only worse with age. I tried restoring the rules but could never get them close to improved readability (especially with my old eyes).

I wish I had done all my woodworking for the last 30 years with quality squares. Grandfathers carpenter square is crazy hard to read. The tooling ideas and quality available nowadays is amazing. And with stainless steel indexed blades, they should last and be readable for a a long time. I just spent hundreds at Woodpeckers on edge rules, mini square, Paolini square and a big honkering stainless steel indexed square for layout. I wish I had more years ahead to enjoy them. YMMV


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## rad457 (Jun 15, 2013)

LOL! Funny how a question about an I-gauge square at Lee Valley turns into a comparison between Starrett and PEC?
I find it nice to have the Starrett to check the accuracy of other squares an for the 10% of projects that deserve or require extra attention.


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## Axis39 (Jul 3, 2019)

> Why is the PEC casting tarnished while the Starret is not?
> 
> [Snipped some content]
> 
> - WilsonLR


Funny thing is, my two Starretts are tarnished and have rust pits and dings all over the blades. My PEC is still unblemished… But., it's. a lot newer! LOL


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## azwoodworker (Jul 9, 2013)

What is funny is the cost is not a valid factor with today's multilocation manufacturing. With all the talk of internet and access, I more have to get my hands on the tool and see if it is made well, can function before I even think of the price. All except for Milwaukee tools. They are what they are strong reliable but never considered the perfect choice but always one you can count on to do the job it states. Too many times I have purchased measuring tools the next step up only to find the combo doesn't hold it's square, and the screw is useless as keeping it fixed. By necessity I have to be more diligent in selecting the tools. Bizarre world. The more we are told what is better the more untrue is has become. Lots of great tools being made today, but you have to get your hands on them to really make that decision.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> Why is the PEC casting tarnished while the Starret is not?


Hi Wilson

As I said the Starrett is my obligatory "fine tool", so if any pinkies up folks come over I can show them I've arrived. The PEC is a blem, and the blade did have a stain on it, that doesn't impact reading, or using it, and it's dirt and grime covered because it's been submerged in sawdust most of it's hard worked life.

Perhaps I should run an oil cloth over her.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> What is funny is the cost is not a valid factor with today s multilocation manufacturing. With all the talk of internet and access, I more have to get my hands on the tool and see if it is made well, can function before I even think of the price. All except for Milwaukee tools. They are what they are strong reliable but never considered the perfect choice but always one you can count on to do the job it states. Too many times I have purchased measuring tools the next step up only to find the combo doesn t hold it s square, and the screw is useless as keeping it fixed. By necessity I have to be more diligent in selecting the tools. Bizarre world. The more we are told what is better the more untrue is has become. Lots of great tools being made today, but you have to get your hands on them to really make that decision.
> 
> - azwoodworker


Az a good point. Starrett by far outsources a lot more of their product line, lending their name to many products. While PEC, and even the lower weight, but very well made iGaging products are made by them, and them alone, or at least were last I checked. I Personally wouldn't buy a Starrett square today, but understand the Myth. allure, and perceived value the name implies. If I was starting, or for those I know starting my call is PEC blems, or iGaging for very accurate, well priced squares.


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## azwoodworker (Jul 9, 2013)

therealSteveN Agreed. I have a Starrett I got at an estate sale. It's heavy but nice product. Brought me back to thinking well of combo squares. I'll check the PEG next time I see one in a store.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

The iGauge is a mixed bucket, some good, some so-so IME.

A lot is made in China, certainly the devices with digital or dial gauges. Still quite useful tools and plenty accurate for WW.

WRT their 6" steel rules, the quality is "nice" in that the metal is thick and the etchings are very clean and easy to read. 
I bought a sack full from Rockler when they had a sale for $1 each. As I'm always loosing them (usually into the table saw miter slot) I wanted enough to saturate my shop so one could always be found.

Using my iGauge 8" digital calipers (which are ok, just a bit stiff on sliding), I measured the lenght of a 1960's vintage Starrett 6" rule at 6.003". The iGauges came in at 6.030".

Not "perfect", but fine for my uses.

As to the PEC blemished engineer squares, I bought a 6" and could not see anything I'd consider a blemish. Dead on square compared to several vintage Starretts in my collection. It sits on my table saw and is used constantly. One issue I have is it looks exactly like one of the set of three "made in India" squares I have (which all are slightly off 90 deg.) I etched some "goobers" into the Indias to tell them apart so I don't accidentally grab the wrong one,

I need to start using the Starretts more, they sit in my measuring tool drawer, nestled in they bags and boxes. I'm too afraid of dropping them 8^)


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## David175 (Jan 14, 2011)

these are the bees knees

https://bridgecitytools.com/products/combination-squares


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## rad457 (Jun 15, 2013)

> these are the bees knees
> 
> https://bridgecitytools.com/products/combination-squares
> 
> - David175


Seem way too Cheap? Is Bridge City out sourcing there production now?


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## pottz (Sep 15, 2015)

> these are the bees knees
> 
> https://bridgecitytools.com/products/combination-squares
> 
> ...


they are now owned by harvey industries that make tablesaws, bandsaws, and other machines.they are chinese made.i own many of the older BC tools that are very high quality.i have not seen any since the company was sold.


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