# 4x8 custom panel glue up



## maguru (Jan 30, 2020)

I want to make custom designed 4×8 panels as I see a business oportunity with a local Architecture/Design studio. In my country we don't have many variety in panels and materials so I was thinking that I could introduce them some custom panels for their wood based design works.

I haven't found what machines are used in glueing up large panels in the industry, mostly because I lack vocabulary (I'm from south america) and there isn't much available in spanish to be honest.

Anybody has an idea of what terms should I be searching for?

Greatly appreciated


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

4 ft x 8 ft would be a sheet of plywood. 
Try looking up plywood machines or machinery.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

You want to veneer cores or make the cores yourself?

Veneering, laminating cores is way easier and less expensive than making cores I think, which uses hug machines.

For veneering multiple sheets at one time presses that exert many tons of force are used.


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

I think I would approach it this way:

Like AJ2 suggested, using plywood.










You might use chapa de madera to cover the plywood (contrachapado de madera), if you want specialized colours or woods, but you would need a very big press for this.

Contrachapado de abedul is baltic birch plywood. You should be able to get this in S.A.

Contrachapado marino is much higher quality. You could probably order or buy this anywhere there is a boats/yachts industry.

Hope that helps.

Donde vives?


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

Sounds like you're looking for a hot press.










This is not mass production, but will make panels.
Cost $31k USD plus shipping and install.

Not cheap either.


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## maguru (Jan 30, 2020)

> You want to veneer cores or make the cores yourself?
> 
> Veneering, laminating cores is way easier and less expensive than making cores I think, which uses hug machines.
> 
> ...


I wasn't aware of the type of forces necessary to make a panel. I should have explained better: what I'm trying to do are glued panels like the one in the attached picture. There are only Eucaliptus or Pine here, sold as "finger joint panel". I don't know what glue they use or what machines they use, but they are produced here. (I'm sure that with industrial machinery).










What I want to do is to provide panels of that size but in different woods and layouts. I have made some tests on my shop and made a steel frame to glue up panels, but that size all at once is just not possible. (not to mention the butt joints which I failed big time)



> I think I would approach it this way:
> 
> Like AJ2 suggested, using plywood.
> 
> ...


I live in Uruguay. You are absolutely right, we can get birch plywood (although, not as high quality as the ones I see on American DIY videos). I've never seen marine birch here and I buy straight from a wood importer. I should ask.

I was just wondering if it was possible. I have access to industrial engineers that can help me out building a machine if it's not incredibly complicated. I'll look into panel presses, that's a start.

Thanks everybody, I know this type of questions are a PITA lol


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## maguru (Jan 30, 2020)

> Sounds like you're looking for a hot press.
> 
> This is not mass production, but will make panels.
> Cost $31k USD plus shipping and install.
> ...


Wow, nice! Thanks for that info. Yeah I wasn't expecting cheap, but now I'll start digging in that direction. Thank you!


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

You'd want a finger jointing machine. Then you have to glue them up. You can get glue applicators for finger joints. You'd probably want to use a wood welder to reduce time in the clamps when you edge glue the finger jointed boards together.

Cutting out defects can also be automated. I saw a machine that used a tiger stop pusher to do that using something like an electric eye to spot the defects and an upcut saw to cut the boards.


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## maguru (Jan 30, 2020)

> You d want a finger jointing machine. Then you have to glue them up. You can get glue applicators for finger joints. You d probably want to use a wood welder to reduce time in the clamps when you edge glue the finger jointed boards together.
> 
> Cutting out defects can also be automated. I saw a machine that used a tiger stop pusher to do that using something like an electric eye to spot the defects and an upcut saw to cut the boards.
> 
> - Loren


That's amazing. Thanks for the information!


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

> Sounds like you're looking for a hot press.
> 
> This is not mass production, but will make panels.
> Cost $31k USD plus shipping and install.
> ...


The hot press would be for making custom plywood.

Your pic is showing what is called butcher block panels and is a completely different animal.

Gang ripping, finger-jointing, large scale edge gluing and clamping, large wide-belt surfacing. 
These can all be expensive operations also - Much more than just one machine.

You could easily spend $300k to $500k USD to set up an decent operation to make it at scale.
It would be profitable if you have the sales and decent supply-chain to support it.


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

Basically, you are wanting to make fancy cutting boards just alot bigger.

To fabricate boards like those you showed, the operation is probably totally automated nowadays.

Investment in machines is one thing, I know Uruguay had very good social benefits programs, like maybe money for new business start-ups, but thats been changing alot and maybe not so good anymore? But sourcing wood so you can actually make a profit at this is quite another thing.


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## maguru (Jan 30, 2020)

> Basically, you are wanting to make fancy cutting boards just alot bigger.
> 
> To fabricate boards like those you showed, the operation is probably totally automated nowadays.
> 
> ...


Yeah you're right, they're big cutting boards pretty much, I was just wondering what it would take to do it. 
It's actually incredibly hard to start a business here, taxes and prices are very high, market is tiny and services are low quality. I'm using up my last savings on my current business, but it's not looking too good. I have friends who moved to Europe and they all tell me that I should be doing what I do here, but over there and live 10 times better.

But that's a different story.



> Sounds like you're looking for a hot press.
> 
> This is not mass production, but will make panels.
> Cost $31k USD plus shipping and install.
> ...


I'm closer to something like this lol





I could make that no problem, some hydraulics and automation. And a more safety features deffinitely. Interesting.

Thanks for all the answers, I really do appreciate it very much.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

Sounds like you want to make "butcher blocks" or "butcher block countertops". The funny thing is the cheapest ones at my local shop are shipped over from South America.


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## maguru (Jan 30, 2020)

> Sounds like you want to make "butcher blocks" or "butcher block countertops". The funny thing is the cheapest ones at my local shop are shipped over from South America.
> 
> - SMP


Really? Probably Brazil I guess. No, I want to build custom panels in sheet format. They're using those fingerboard panels a lot in interior design, but everything looks the same. I was talking to a client who owns an Architecture Studio that also do interior design and I see I could have a potential business if I could create customized sheets for them.

I made countertops, solid doors, stairs steps and that type of thing. But I can handle that size.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

Hmm for some reason they don't have the panels I am talking about on their site but they also carry the Baubuche panels from Pollmeier. I think made in Germany? Another kind of trendy panel right now.
https://www.bennettcrone.com/baubuche


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

+10 Heated press

IME - Standard method to mfg cutting boards in a country with low cost labor is 2-4 sided hydraulic press with heated platen and fast cure PVA glue. Highest volume mfg that can afford more capital with cheap energy costs use microwave energy, focused through fiberglass press plates to excite the moisture/solvent in glue for fastest local heating, and cure times.

Here is a random example pic of process on press machine in China:









Some of newest automated laminated board assembly lines use PUR hot melt adhesives, with only folks loading lumber at one end, couple of quality inspectors in middle checking before press, and folks unloading stacks of panels at end for packaging, or down sizing into smaller product sizes. Even waste management is automated.

+1 DS cost estimate. 
Press is least of your cost issues. There is a lot more than press cost when creating a consistent low cost process.

Have seen the cost for tooling on a press machine to be same/higher than cost for press, as making things flat across large area, minimizing glue line width, and making it non-stick is expensive.

After heated press cycle; the panels load into cooling racks (glue joints shrink as they cool), before wide belt sanding, and final double sided edge trim machine, and cut off saw.

Even in a small shop with one press, mfg usually have 2 work stations on conveyor in front of press, where folks pull lumber from pallet stacks, verify grain direction, and work to assemble a good looking defect free panel. One person can not feed a large microwave PUR hot melt glue press machine fast enough to keep it busy.

Most platen presses are same at core of machine. Used all over the wood mfg business. Same machines are used to make composite skinned doors with fancy molds, to stacks of custom veneer panels. The only difference between them is the press head tooling used to create even force. I bought several for making electronic widget composite panels.

PS - If you want to go dirt cheap, and can afford much longer cycle times; heated 3D vacuum presses can be used. Not most energy efficient method as you waste the power used to create vacuum with every cycle. The heated press retains some heat and typically has lower energy usage per panel.

IMHO - If you want to pursue industrial woodworking machinery for business, suggest you need to skip the hobby forums and start finding local business references. Try to find something like US based Modern Woodworking Blue Book or WMMA in South America for more local help.

Best Luck!


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## maguru (Jan 30, 2020)

> IMHO - If you want to pursue industrial woodworking machinery for business, suggest you need to skip the hobby forums and start finding local business references. Try to find something like US based Modern Woodworking Blue Book or WMMA in South America for more local help.
> 
> Best Luck!
> 
> - CaptainKlutz


Thank you for taking the time for that extensive answer. All tha information is gold to me.
You're all 100% right. I know this might be a hobby forum, but I've learnt so much from it, I respect it a lot (I know you weren't stating otherwise!).
All that tech is over my budget, but I will start small and aim to grow steadily.


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## AlanWS (Aug 28, 2008)

Finger jointed and laminated panels are useful, but I question whether 4'x8' makes sense. They would be very heavy and awkward to cut up. Wouldn't it be easier to make them in narrower widths, which would make the equipment cheaper too?


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## maguru (Jan 30, 2020)

> Finger jointed and laminated panels are useful, but I question whether 4×8 makes sense. They would be very heavy and awkward to cut up. Wouldn t it be easier to make them in narrower widths, which would make the equipment cheaper too?
> 
> - AlanWS


Yes that makes sense. I was just thinking that as it's the industry standard size it would be good to be able to provide that size to them to manufacture what they need.

But probably smaller, custom sizes is the way to go. I have lowered my bar considerably as the reality shown in this thread was eye opening (I tend to think too big, working on fixing that) and I'm looking at smaller budget solutions. On Monday I'm going to see an used finger joint/press machine for beams. On this style:

https://4.imimg.com/data4/NK/XM/MY-4705535/hydraulic-finger-press-machine-500x500.jpg

And I've been looking panel gluing solutions like this, but I'll have to build one myself as there aren't any I can find locally.

https://www.jamesltaylor.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/79F-6-PC-Cleaned-Up.jpg

I think that with that and the jointer+planer+sander I could start something…


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

You could always do smaller versions that interlock like flooring tongue and groove. So like, 2 X 4 sections, or 1 X 2 sections, that add up to 4 X 8 or bigger.


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## maguru (Jan 30, 2020)

> You could always do smaller versions that interlock like flooring tongue and groove. So like, 2 X 4 sections, or 1 X 2 sections, that add up to 4 X 8 or bigger.
> 
> - wildwoodbybrianjohns


That is a great idea that I hadn't considered. Thanks!


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## CWWoodworking (Nov 28, 2017)

Instead of focusing on size or how boards are put together, I would offer things consumers want-custom finishes, hand scraped/planed, wide plank, storage leaves, wire brushed, Sand blasted, etc.

Things like this can be done on a smaller budget and are what consumers desire.

Skip the jointer and traditional planer. Go straight to a double head planer and straight line rip saw. Don't skimp on sander.


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## wildwoodbybrianjohns (Aug 22, 2019)

> You could always do smaller versions that interlock like flooring tongue and groove. So like, 2 X 4 sections, or 1 X 2 sections, that add up to 4 X 8 or bigger.
> 
> - wildwoodbybrianjohns
> 
> ...


Si Señor, you could get really funky with this idea, and create a whole new market/product line. Alternating grain patterns, diagonal grain matching, colour contrasting, lots of potential there…........


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## maguru (Jan 30, 2020)

> You could always do smaller versions that interlock like flooring tongue and groove. So like, 2 X 4 sections, or 1 X 2 sections, that add up to 4 X 8 or bigger.
> 
> - wildwoodbybrianjohns
> 
> ...


I love it. I am working on a couple of product design ideas that are modular. I like the idea of modular/customizable. So your suggestion falls right in place. Gracias!


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

Our local Wurth vendor sells Butcher Block tops in several different sizes.
I have used these several times and they are convenient.

I've cut them to my required length and I've even joined two of them to get a wider top.

Is this something like you are trying to offer?

https://www.wurthlac.com/storefront/kitchen-hardware-accessories/maple-butcher-blocks-backsplashes/solid-maple-butcher-block-counter-top-1-3-4-thick/prodMMG1-3...4.html

Also;
https://www.wurthlac.com/storefront/kitchen-hardware-accessories/maple-butcher-blocks-backsplashes/solid-maple-butcher-block-counter-top-1-1-2-thick/prodMMC25.html


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## onenight (Oct 26, 2020)

Hello, a lot of times the cost exceeds our dreams if the right solution for your situation is not realized. You are right by trying to keep a low budget as you enter into a speculative market. I have had to come up with realistic solutions while still having them be unique to the industry and my needs. Always remember, there is an unknown option for every problem you come up against in life and occupation. It sounds like your main problem is being able to edge laminate the panels due to their size and lack of machinery with the capabilities. Well, break it down to what action is actually needed to achieve the needed outcome. It breaks down basically to two parts, #1-you need pressure, lots of pressure #2- you need panels to stay flat. You could build you a heavy table out of 6×6's, legs, top, and braces all assembled with bolts, washers, and locknuts. For assembling the top, bore holes every 12 inches apart alternating one on the low edge of 6×6, then the next on the high edge, than the next back to the low side, then high side edge, ect until you are at the end of the tabletop. Make each of your 6×6 that you use for top have matching holes. You will need to use 1/2" or bigger allthread with washers and locknuts so you can go through all the 6×6's used to make the top. Do not glue 6×6's used for top together because you have made a adjustable top now. Yes, the bolts being alternated from top edge to bottom edge can be loosened or tightened to adjust the flatness of the top…cuped up,tighten top bolts more cuped down tighten bottom allthread, loosen opposite side as needed. Making out of 6×6's is to have little or no flex in table because of the high pressures you will be putting on it. Now on both long edges {assuming it's a 10'x6' or more table) bolt a straight 6×6 on top of the long edge's of top to create a permanate fence that will not move or flex on both sides, if you can get some 1/4" or 1/2" steel to mount aginst 6×6 fence would be even better, but staying in budget may not premit that,and will be fine without it. Now get some 3/4 plywood and lay on surface of the top butting into 6×6 fences. Any good flat plywood will work, plyform is what i would use, but use what you can get. Attach plywood to 6×6 top (do not glue to top..important) with good quality self countersinking screws, use as many as needed to insure no humps or high spots on top. Now lay a straight edge on plywood/6×6 top and adjust allthread tension to flaten top where needed. Now for the pressure. Go to junkyard or anywhere that might have sissor type car jacks for sale, used new it wont matter as long as they work. You know, the jack that comes in your car,you spin a bolt at the end and it rises up and jacks your car up to change a tire. Anyways get as many as you can (one every 16 or so inches would be good.}. Now lay them down on their sides with the base up aginst one of the fences on your top. get a bord or something to lay across top of jacks from one end to the other as a movable fence. Also wax the whole top with johnson wax or what you have so glue won't stick to top. Now if doing stain grade you don't want to get wax on panel cause it won't take stain right. Good thing is if you didn't glue plywood to top, all you have to do is unscrew plywood from top and replace with new if it becomes to messed up because it is a replacable top. Now get your strips of wood, put glue on the edges (I would use Tightbond 2. It is strong, cleans up good with water, it is a RF activated glue if you ever need faster cure times, and they started the one part exterior glue, before they came along we had to mix up exterior brown glue). place your strips inbetween screw jacks and the other fence. If you have a air gun get an extension and a swivelsocket, and start tightening up on jacks till the movable fence/board on top of them makes contact with panel than tighten them up a little at a time till glue loints in panel are all tight and how you want them. This system is capable of some very high pressures, i do mean very high, that is why such a heavy 6×6 table, really a 8×8 table would be better if budget allows. Now for the flat part. With all that pressure panel will bow in the middle until it comes apart (and that won't take much pressure to do it). Get you some lengths of 3 or 4 inch angle iron and lay across panel and clamp down firmly so panel can't bulge up. Use as many as it takes, but remember one important thing, Put seran wrap or some kind of plastic strips or wax paper under every piece of angle iron you use, if you don't it will turn the wood black everywhere that there is glue touching the metal. You can't get it off without planing a 1/4" or so off panel or sanding it off and sanding off will ruin your panel because it will put dips in it everywhere you sand it out. Well i guess that's about it, just a base idea you can add on to make your dream/idea be cost effective enough to be able to give it your best shot and try. Later


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## maguru (Jan 30, 2020)

> Hello, a lot of times the cost exceeds our dreams if the right solution for your situation is not realized….Later
> 
> - onenight


Great info, thank you very much for taking the time to share all that. Very much appreciated!


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