# Birdseye Maple and Padauk Finishing Recommendations



## DerekW (Jul 23, 2018)

I'm looking for some finishing recommendations for a box I've made out of birdseye maple with padauk miter keys and accents. I made 2 boxes and finished the first with Danish oil after some meticulous finish scraping. I achieved some excellent chatoyance with the birdseye maple (and will probably add a few coats of super blonde shellac) but the padauk turned so dark you can hardly tell that it's red. I'm hoping to finish the last box in a way that keeps the chatoyance of the birdseye maple and preserves the nice red color of the padauk. I'm considering using either super blonde shellac only, General Finishes High Performance Water Based, or lacquer. Any thoughts?


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Sounds like it'd work. Either finishing suggestions would work.

That paduak is going to darken even with uv inhibitors. And it won't take all that long either.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Shellac or lacquer will bring out the depth. Waterborne won't. GFHP is a quality finish, but you'll never get the pop from waterborne that you will from a solvent based finish.

One trick I learned from the book The Art of Coloring Wood is to use sodium carbonate. It's safe and often brings out the depth in wood. You always do test pieces of course, and some woods improve more than others. My experience is that figured maple gets a big boost in depth.


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## DerekW (Jul 23, 2018)

Thanks for the feedback thus far. I have a limited supply of both padauk and birdseye maple so I can't do the amount of testing that I normally do, but it sounds like I'm on the right track.

Rich, I've never heard of using sodium carbonate on wood. Can you explain the process?


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Rich, I ve never heard of using sodium carbonate on wood. Can you explain the process?
> 
> - DerekW


Here's an excerpt from the book. It is full of other useful information and I strongly recommend buying it. The Kindle edition is only $8.49, so it won't break the bank.

Since you have limited test pieces available, proceed with caution. Like I said, I have gotten excellent results with figured maple where the process really brought out the grain, but I've also applied it to other woods with a less positive outcome. Nothing was ruined, I just wasn't impressed with the results.

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*Sodium Carbonate*

You can call sodium carbonate by its nicknames: soda ash or washing soda or soda crystals or sal soda or even super washing soda! But don't call sodium carbonate by its cousin's name of sodium bicarbonate - aka baking soda. They are different compounds and the correct one for coloring wood is sodium carbonate.

Sodium carbonate does not result in a particularly dramatic color change on wood. You may have to up the strength or simply use a different chemical if you want more visual "oomph!" So why would you want to use it? Why wouldn't you just go straight to your clear coat finish? Well, sodium carbonate offers all the advantages of chemicals that aren't achievable with just a plain, clear coat finish. Sodium carbonate patinates the wood and accentuates the grain pattern to a much more pronounced degree- look at that ripple on the maple sample!- and enables you to see deeper into the wood. And because sodium carbonate is non-toxic, you can worry a little less if the idea of working with chemicals makes you nervous. Best of all, you can dispose of the solution by dumping it right down the drain!

Recipe for Sodium Carbonate

1 tsp of sodium carbonate
3 oz. hot distilled water 
3 oz. cold distilled water

Slowly stir one teaspoon of sodium carbonate into 3 ounces of hot distilled water. Mix until thoroughly dissolved and then add 3 ounces of cold distilled water. Mix thoroughly. Strain this solution into a clean container and apply when it has come to room temperature. Wipe the surface with a rag before the solution dries. Do not sand until after you have applied your first seal coat.

Miller, Brian; Miller, Brian; Crestani, Marci; Crestani, Marci. The Art of Coloring Wood: A Woodworker's Guide to Understanding Dyes and Chemicals (Kindle Locations 905-909). Linden Publishing. Kindle Edition.


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## DerekW (Jul 23, 2018)

Thanks, Rich! I'll have to try it out. I have some curly maple in the scrap bin that I can test it out on and, if the results look good, try it on my limited supply of birdseye maple scraps. Do you know how the sodium carbonate would affect padauk?


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Thanks, Rich! I ll have to try it out. I have some curly maple in the scrap bin that I can test it out on and, if the results look good, try it on my limited supply of birdseye maple scraps. Do you know how the sodium carbonate would affect padauk?
> 
> - DerekW


No experience with padauk.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

Lot of ways to acheive grain enhancement. I have researched a lot of the old chemical methods such as sodium carbonate. I can achieve the same thing with dyes such as Transtint and WD Lockwood oil based. To me the advantage is regardless of the effect/color, I can use the same processes and finishing chemicals and dont have to do special preparations. Transtint can be mixed directly into shellac and wb or solvent lacquer, and the ob directly into poly.

Since you desire max chatoyance, dont use wb finish- it does not refract light the same as solvent finishes. Putting shellac under wb is a big improvement but still not as good. Mainly applies for gloss finishes. The lower the gloss the less the difference. You dont state how tough of a finish, gloss level, or film thickness is desired, or application method. That info will help develop a finish schedule. And yes that padauk is gonna end up brown regardless. Here is a birdseye platter I did a few years ago.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Lot of ways to acheive grain enhancement. I have researched a lot of the old chemical methods such as sodium carbonate.
> 
> - OSU55


Have you just researched it or actually tried it? Big difference.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

I researched them and saw no reason to pursue the methods. I'm quite capable of viewing the pictures and comparing them to finishes I have done.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> I researched them and saw no reason to pursue the methods. I'm quite capable of viewing the pictures and comparing them to finishes I have done.
> 
> - OSU55


I guess I'm more curious than you are. For the few dollars a bag cost me I had the opportunity to see the results up close. I can assure you that no photo is going to capture its effect.

You can choose not to experiment, but to say that you can achieve the same thing with dyes, without ever trying the sodium carbonate, is disingenuous since you have no idea what the effect is.


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## Kazooman (Jan 20, 2013)

Hate to bust up a good argument, but the OP said he got "excellent chatoyance" on the birdseye maple.

He is looking for a way to retain the color of the padauk. From my limited experience with padauk, I think he is in search of the Holy Grail. Padauk darkens with time, as TheFridge said.


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

In case nobody has mentioned it, wipe with DNA and seal any padauk that is adjacent to the maple as it will bleed when you rub finish on it.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Hate to bust up a good argument, but the OP said he got "excellent chatoyance" on the birdseye maple.
> 
> - Kazooman


He also said he want to keep it. I offered a suggestion based on my experience to enhance it even further.


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## Kazooman (Jan 20, 2013)

> Hate to bust up a good argument, but the OP said he got "excellent chatoyance" on the birdseye maple.
> 
> - Kazooman
> 
> ...


Valid point. Any thoughts on sodium carbonate and the color of the padauk? I think I have a very old piece of padauk down in my stash of "wood I will probably never use". If I can find it, I might have a go at seeing what the base wash has on the initial color. That is if it would have the nice red-orange color if I plane off the now very dark surface. Padauk just goes brown.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Valid point. Any thoughts on sodium carbonate and the color of the padauk? I think I have a very old piece of padauk down in my stash of "wood I will probably never use". If I can find it, I might have a go at seeing what the base wash has on the initial color. That is if it would have the nice red-orange color if I plane off the now very dark surface. Padauk just goes brown.
> 
> - Kazooman


I think of sodium carbonate as something that deepens figured grain. I've never worked with padauk, so I have nothing to base any comments on. Maybe give it a try. Sodium Carbonate isn't a super wow treatment, it just happened to affect figured maple in a way I liked. That's why I mentioned it here. I'd definitely never use it without doing test pieces first.


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## DerekW (Jul 23, 2018)

> Hate to bust up a good argument, but the OP said he got "excellent chatoyance" on the birdseye maple.
> 
> He is looking for a way to retain the color of the padauk. From my limited experience with padauk, I think he is in search of the Holy Grail. Padauk darkens with time, as TheFridge said.
> 
> - Kazooman


You hit the nail on the head. The chatoyance isn't necessarily a problem, although I love hearing other peoples' suggestions, which is one of the good things about this site. The problem was keeping the chatoyance AND the red of the padauk. I'm beginning to think that finishes that are great for bringing out the chatoyance of the birdseye maple will almost certainly darken the padauk. That's probably their nature. I was semi-aware of that at the beginning and that's why I decided to finish the wood with scraping rather than sanding, but alas, it was not enough. I'm going to experiment with some super blonde shellac and will post the results when I get a chance.


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

Padauk the unspoken bane of woodworking.
I fell in love with this beautiful red hardwood only by sight, exotic lumber supplier and Fine Woodworking magazine. Nobody ever told me that this would happen. The sun drenched brown that develops with "Ultra violet rays" for it deteriorates…
See the difference in the pics- 








Recently, I did a test of 4 individual pieces pieces of Padauk with 4 different top coat finishes, with uv protection…
2 products that work for me: after the above baptism pic-


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

> I researched them and saw no reason to pursue the methods. I'm quite capable of viewing the pictures and comparing them to finishes I have done.
> 
> - OSU55
> 
> ...


So you have experimented with dyes to achieve the same look? If so please share the details and why it apparently failed.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> So you have experimented with dyes to achieve the same look? If so please share the details and why it apparently failed.
> 
> - OSU55


Nice try. I never said I hadn't tried; nor did I ever say I tried and failed. I said that in my experience the sodium carbonate added depth to figured maple. Period.

I also did not imply that it would give the same look as dye (it won't). You were the one saying you could achieve the same effect with dyes, and I simply pointed out what a foolish statement that is if you don't even know what effect you are supposedly equaling.

The bottom line is, if you've never tried something, then to say you can do the same thing another way is BS because you don't even know what it is.

Something tells me that won't stop you though…lol


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## DerekW (Jul 23, 2018)

> In case nobody has mentioned it, wipe with DNA and seal any padauk that is adjacent to the maple as it will bleed when you rub finish on it.
> 
> - Andybb


Wish I read this before I turned my birdseye maple pink!


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## Andybb (Sep 30, 2016)

> In case nobody has mentioned it, wipe with DNA and seal any padauk that is adjacent to the maple as it will bleed when you rub finish on it.
> 
> - Andybb
> 
> ...


LOL! That's one of those "ask me how I know" things. I'm a relative newbie and saw the beautiful red color of the padauk in the bin at Rockler. It was even "beautifuler" after I planed it as trim on a picture frame made with that paper thin Rockler maple veneer which disappears as soon as you show sandpaper to it. Then I made the mistake of rubbing shellac on it. That's when it became a prototype. Seemed like a good idea at the time. I still use what I have left from time to time but only if I can either mask or sand and seal it first. Live and learn.

Oh yeah. Welcome to ljs.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

> So you have experimented with dyes to achieve the same look? If so please share the details and why it apparently failed.
> 
> - OSU55
> 
> ...


So who is BS'ng here? You havent tried one and I havent tried the other, so…al least I compared the results of the two methods, and offered a method to provide any level of grain enhancement desired that deos not involve new chemicals and neutralization requirements. As usual you will argue incessantly that your opinion is right rather than offer something productive.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> So who is BS'ng here? You havent tried one and I havent tried the other, so…al least I compared the results of the two methods, and offered a method to provide any level of grain enhancement desired that deos not involve new chemicals and neutralization requirements. As usual you will argue incessantly that your opinion is right rather than offer something productive.
> 
> - OSU55


Let's try to sort this out. First, the following are facts, not opinions:

I stated that I had found sodium carbonate enhanced the grain in figured maple. I DID NOT ever say that it was superior to dyes, nor did I ever say that I had no experience with dyes. I have a lot. Likely more than you do.

Here's another fact, you were talking out of your butt about something you had no experience with, other than your claim to have seen photos. You obviously do not understand how sodium carbonate is used because it does NOT require neutralization.

Just to refresh your memory, here's what I initially wrote: "One trick I learned from the book The Art of Coloring Wood is to use sodium carbonate. It's safe and often brings out the depth in wood. You always do test pieces of course, and some woods improve more than others. My experience is that figured maple gets a big boost in depth."

Here's your response (which is clearly BS because if you'd researched sodium carbonate you would have known it is harmless and requires no neutralization): "Lot of ways to acheive grain enhancement. I have researched a lot of the old chemical methods such as sodium carbonate. I can achieve the same thing with dyes such as Transtint and WD Lockwood oil based."

So, a) you never researched anything, b) you can't achieve the same thing with dyes, nor could you even know what that is.

So, keep 'em coming. I find it amusing how far out in left field you can manage to get. Nothing you have come back at me with has had anything to do with my first post in this thread. The bottom line is you just don't get it and you're too stubborn and clueless to realize it…lol


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

You've proven the point…..your opinion is always right, facts be damned. You must have been a politician with the way you spin things. I dont have time….. you out BS'd me.

DerekW, I sorry for enabling the spin miester. I have to just ignore his need to right - he just goes in circles.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Getting personal now? That's how you cope when you have no argument left. Very sad. Maybe now you can concentrate on understanding the concept of squareness on a shooting plane…lol


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## Desert_Woodworker (Jan 28, 2015)

> You've proven the point…..your opinion is always right, facts be damned.
> 
> - OSU55


This sounds very emotional on your part  As for Rich - or any other LJ 's we always don't see "eye to eye" get it "birds eye maple". 
On LumberJocks we sometimes don't comprend what is being written and then we lash out with emotion-
Hint: There is a "forum" topic with others that are bashing me… and when it is time to exit- I post
*Off My Watch* and check "unwatch"


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> You've proven the point…..your opinion is always right, facts be damned.
> 
> - OSU55
> 
> ...


It's OK, DW. You're seeing the typical response from someone who has lost all hope of winning an argument. They get frustrated and lash out.

I learned a long time ago, that if you get angry, you've lost. So, I just smile and move on.


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

> I dont have time….. you out BS'd me. I have to just ignore his need to right - he just goes in circles.
> 
> - OSU55


Not emotional ….. practical. Lot of you are retired I still work full time. Dont have time or the need to unravel rich's ramblings. It simple - sodium carbonate is a way to color wood. Transtint or other products are a way to color wood and achieve the same thing.

Once a discussion devolves into he said she said about opinion and fact is no longer present it is of no value to others and no value to me. This went the same way as the discussion on shooting planes - LV provides instructions with their shooting plane to skew the blade to get perfect perp, so rich go argue with LV that they are wrong


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