# Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy



## Stevinmarin (Dec 24, 2009)

*Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*

I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!

For those of you who *ARE *concerned about woodworking piracy, here's a link I mention in this video.

Basically, ClickBank.com bows down and sucks the toes of Ted's Woodworking. He is the #1 seller in the DIY category of their web site. Think he's making them some bucks? It's all very dirty. But it's also frustrating that one guy can make such profits off of the actual woodworking and plans provided by so many other companies and web sites.


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## JJohnston (May 22, 2009)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, I think you're tilting at windmills. Remember about a year ago, that guy selling scam car warranties finally got shut down? He'd been calling people, in violation of the Do-Not-Call list, for several years. He finally had the bad luck to robo-call Senator Schumer one day. Within about 3 days he got shut down. The FCC had the gall to crow - proudly - that they'd had thousands of complaints against him.

Thousands of complaints from nobodies vs. one from a member of the ruling class - you do the math.


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## Kjuly (May 28, 2009)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Hi Steve,
I sat through the whole video and I'am glad I did. I agree, the companies that have been ripped off should step up and help put a stop to this piracy. 
StumbleUpon could help by removing Ted's woodworking scams. Type in "woodworking" at StumbleUpon and every other "Stumble" is Ted's or one of his affiliates.

Keith


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## superdav721 (Aug 16, 2010)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Thanks Steve for an in depth lesson on this subject. How do we boycott this? 
Kieth just flag the stumbles as inappropriate. If we all do that they will pull them.
I am going to tweet this, google + and facebook this link. Lets all pull together and spread the word.


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## LepelstatCrafts (Jan 16, 2011)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Steve,

here is what I found from going through the source code on his website.

"Ted" is using http://www.w3.org to create his main site.

it looks like he may be hosting his site from here: http://www.rackspace.com/cloud/

here is some info on the famed Bradly Lerwill (the testimonial guy). Goggle provided this info:

http://people.bakersfield.com/home/ViewPost/112832 (this is out of Bakersfield, California)

I then searched Bradly Lerwill and came across Kirsten Sunday Lerwill's facebook page. Hey doesn't that guy standing next to her look allot like Bradly Lerwill supposedly out of the UK just with facial hair? Her info says that she is out of CA too.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=834899551&ref=ffl

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Click Bank is owned by a company called Click Sales Inc. based out of this address. Yes there is actually an office building at that address and the phone number does go directly to Click Bank. I checked Google Maps:

917 Lusk St
Suite 200
Boise, ID 83706
208-345-4245

Here is some more information on Click Sales Inc. (aka Click Bank):

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=51628248

Now here is what is interesting. Click Sales Inc is sub to a company called Keynetics Inc which is located at:

917 Lusk Street, Suite 300
Boise, ID 83706 USA
208-489-3300

When I called the phone number it offers to connect you to Click Bank. I wasn't able to speak to anyone since it was Sunday. At least Keynetics Inc does show that it is linked to Click Bank.

Now if you read about the CEO Mr. Bradley J. Wiskirchen he also owns another company located out of the Suite 300 address called Kount Inc. which is a security company for credit cards.

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=51752853

Notice that the phone numbers and address are the same as Kenetic Inc? Kenetic Inc has no web presence. It seems to be a shell of a shell company structure.

Ok back to "Ted's" website and Click Banks website. I looked at the source code for Click Bank's website. They are also using http://www.w3.org to create their website. It is unlikely that two different "Companies" would use the same exact design group. Well it goes a little farther. I decided to Google the CEO Bradley J. Wiskirchen and I came across a link about their email blasts from a company called smartbrief.com that is a service that Click Bank uses. Guess what! This company also uses http://www.w3.org to create their website.

Here is my conclusion and by no means am I saying that all these links of information proves anything. I would almost bet that "Ted's" site is actually operated by Click Bank aka Keynetics Inc aka Kount Inc (maybe as well Smartbrief.com? - seems to be an entirely different company though). This would explain how "Ted's" site is so highly rated on Click Bank's website. Overall there is definitely something fishy going on here.

Hope this helps a little Steve. It only took an hour or so to find all this before I just got tired of the shell game lol.


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## Stevinmarin (Dec 24, 2009)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Wow, Mike…thanks for your work. I'm going to look into all of this. Keynetics?

I really believe some lawyer could easily get to Ted's bottom.

I am not through with this. I am going to try my best to put Ted down.


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## LepelstatCrafts (Jan 16, 2011)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


No worries Steve. I had fun doing it. Yeah I am a little sick like that


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## HalDougherty (Jul 15, 2009)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Go get 'em Steve. If you save one novice woodworker from spending his money on this junk, you've done a good deed for the day.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


I'm one of Ted's victims only it's been many… many months now so I'm doubtful if I'd get a refund if it's not to late already?

Thanks Steve I was wondering about this.


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## Eric_S (Aug 26, 2009)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Mike, just a small correction to your research. This is meant to help so yours or Steve's research doesn't go looking down the wrong direction, like assuming two companies are related because of this w3 reference. You may be correct in that the companies are related, but it isn't because of this. You guys have been doing a great job though with this research by the way, I just don't want you to assume something that isn't correct.

W3.org is not a design group. It is an html standard document reference for browsers to use and understand how to render the page. It is used across every website in the header of an html page, although you don't have to declare it explicitly. There are a few different types of declarations of it that can be used in a webpage. Strict or transitional, and HTML 4.01 and XHTML 1.0 or XHTML 1.1.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


*Eric*'s cover is totally blown …. ;-)


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## mikema (Apr 27, 2011)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Just to back-up Eric, yes, the w3.org you see in the source for the websites has nothing to do with who designed the page, but how the page needs to render the html. For example most of the sites I have done have a tag containing the following:

!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"

and

html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"

I pulled these from my own blog site, which I built the template for.

In fact if you do a view source on lumberjocks.com you will see similar code.


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## LepelstatCrafts (Jan 16, 2011)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Eric,

Good to know. I am by no means an expert on html at that level for sure. Thanks for pointing that out. Like GI Joe says "Knowing is half the battle!"

Mike


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## Eric_S (Aug 26, 2009)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Anytime Mike. Most people probably wouldn't notice. It's my profession though so I thought I'd chime in. GI Joe is right.


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## Dez (Mar 28, 2007)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Thanks for both the time spent researching and sharing the information AND the effort you've put in combating the enemy! 
I too recently filed a couple of complaints with carriers of his "stuff". I notice that eBay finally booted him!


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## geoscann (Feb 27, 2012)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Steve i wonder how many hundreds of thousands of dollars these ligate wood working company's have lost. Because people interested in starting out in wood working have lost interest and now believe all woodworking co. Are a rip off because of teds and other co. like them are ripping them off. I would think these mfg would try to shut them down asap I wonder if any of them work with click bank hum.


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## Dwain (Nov 1, 2007)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Well, I'll start. I would be very willing to put a little of my money (of which I have very little) into financing the downfall of Ted's Woodworking. I don't know who else is out there, but I think enough of us, with a little to spare could really help Steve bring this guy down.


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## geoscann (Feb 27, 2012)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Steve maybe lumberjocks could host a place on there site just for posting these plans and they could be organized buy categories then aspiring new wood workers could look up what they need download it and make there project this could eliminate teds market and put them out of business. just a thought.


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## Ken22F (Jun 19, 2009)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


There is one way to get Ted off the Island is
That every woodworker that has Ted's plans
Start to give them away, under "backup of teds plans" 
Having the same thing for free to everyone
would put this crooked guy out of business fast.


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Ken that would be breaking the law to stop someone else from breaking the law

Steve please pm me and i will help you put this guy down. it seems like the right thing to do and thisoldworkshop.com and all its resources and contacts will be used to help you shut this guy down. I will get together with you and we will post it on several websites all over the world that way we can steel his Google ranking for his own name. while i get in touch with the companies on your list I have contacts at most of them all over the world. or know someone who does I will help you and it will feel good to do it.

Mike a lot of your work was valid and very usable so you were a big help I bet this is just some college dropout making his first million ripping off new woodworkers. I would bet this is just one of many scams that this is about Did anyone do a lookup on who owns his domain Ill bet it is anonymous but we will check.

Also lets get the word out about this guy we can get the big company's to help like woodcraft I will get ahold of my contact there and will have them post about this scam in all their stores this is the biggest retail chain in America and should love to help put an end to this scam I also have a contact at the FBI and I will involve them as soon as we have all the evidence to shut this guy down and have him sent to prison.


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## jgreiner (Oct 23, 2010)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


@Mike
If you're refering to the <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"> line at the top of the website's source, this is standard for HTML4 and beyond (I believe) .. if you look at lumberjocks' source it has the same line, most modern day websites do.

All it does is tell the web browser with HTML standard to use when rendering the page.

I just wanted to jump in and say that http://www.w3.org .. is the world wide web consortium, they are the organization that specifies HTML and web standards that are to be used in all websites and browsers. Technically all websites conform to the w3c standards, and this doesn't mean that clickbank and ted's woodworking are owned by the same shell company.

All the other information provided however is a fantastic piece of investigation and I wonder if we have any lumberjocks in click bank's area that want to pay them a visit 

-jeremy


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## Doe (Aug 26, 2010)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Did anyone get the CD? If yes, then the USPS should ge contacted; they frown on mail fraud in a big way.


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## oldworld124 (Mar 2, 2008)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Maybe an LJ member from the Boise area can drop by Click Bank's headquarters and see who they are?


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## nobuckle (Nov 3, 2010)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Steve, thanks again for putting forth your efforts for the benefit of the LJ community and the woodworking community in general.


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## DavidWhite (Jun 2, 2009)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


This is their domain whois result:

Domain name: tedswoodworking.com

Registrant Contact:
TedsWoodworking
Ted Mcgrath ()

Fax: 
219 Tama Street
Slater, IA 50244
Slater,, IA 50244
US

Administrative Contact:
TedsWoodworking
Ted Mcgrath (@tedswoodworking.com)
+880.0851185580
Fax: +1.5555555555
219 Tama Street
Slater, IA 50244
Slater,, IA 50244
US

Technical Contact:
TedsWoodworking
Ted Mcgrath (@tedswoodworking.com)
+880.0851185580
Fax: +1.5555555555
219 Tama Street
Slater, IA 50244
Slater,, IA 50244
US


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


How I found Ted's ad was via Facebook, it was one of the advertisments thus I fell victim. Seems as though facebook should maybe be held liable or at least warned.


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## AJswoodshop (Mar 2, 2012)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Teds woodworking, looks like the didnt eat there jimmy dean breakfast.

AJ


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## barecycles (Jan 10, 2012)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Here's my 2 cents on this thing. I have a cousin who lives nearby the 219 Tama St address listed on Ted's website (which has changed by the way over time). I had her drive over to that neighborhood and there is no 219 Tama St.


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## Nighthawk (Dec 13, 2011)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


When I started to get back into to woodworking I was tempted to buy (I just wanted ideas really)... I don't actually know what stopped me… but it was a gut feeling that something was not right, ie; all the different teds woodworking sites I came across… so I didn't, it just felt like a scam.

However you do get the plans I see… even thoigh they are basically stolen from magazines and other websites. So there is a scam of sorts.

Now that you have done this I am glad I didn't.

Personally it is good to see that you are investigating this. I personally would email the companies and magazines that are being ripped and see what they say.


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## geoscann (Feb 27, 2012)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Steve i,ve been thinking about this all week and my thought on this is the only way to stop this is to follow the money. and by that i mean we need all the woodworkers to start complaining to all the sites that support the teds woodworking plans ad. tell them NO this is a rip off and if your going to keep puting up the ad, than your site must be supporting the thieves and this will cause us to not purchase your products the money will dry up and ted will be gone. just my nickel thanks steve


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## Dal300 (Aug 4, 2011)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Blackie_ (Randy), why would it be Facebook's problem to do someone's due diligence?
Facebook just sells ad space, They have no liability if the ad that is paid for is a scam.

It sounds like you are one of the masses that always has to have someone to blame other than yourself.


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


"It sounds like you are one of the masses that always has to have someone to blame other than yourself."

For a while, there, LumberJocks were united on a bit of a worthy crusade.

Then, it got ugly.

*Dallas* ? My memory is pretty good. Not your first. Why not at least TRY to wag a civil tongue.

The challenge, here, will be ….. that these websites, AND "Ted's" are profiting. They probably have VERY little interest in fairness, morality, or decency.

Cutting into their PROFITS is the best way to change their behavior. Waging an online campaign, like this one, to help point out the TRUTH to people … is a start. Trying to foment a BOYCOTT … is a good idea.

But one-off letters to sites that profit from the corruption and fraud … aren't likely to sway UNETHICAL folks to BE ETHICAL ;-)


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Dallas I'm not even going to waste my time debating with you, there always has to be someone like you that feeds on drama not going there with you, instead I'll just ignore your comment and move on.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


While Dallas was a bit too blunt, I am afraid I have to side with him. Steve, have you ever heard if it is too good to be true it probably is? or too good, no good… 

Ted's 16000 plans have been around for a long time, compare the style of the web site to those that try to sell you how to pick up women, work at home schemes, investment "counseling", etc. You will see they are all exactly the same, the page goes on forever, tells you how wonderful your life will be after you pay your $39 bucks which of course they have reduced from a $1000 just because they are so nice, blah, blah, blah.

Sorry to break it to you, but you got conned, it happens to all of us at one time or another. I imagine that those who have been affected by Ted's copyright infringement know very well that once lawyers get involved things go down hill fast, and it is probably not worth it to them to sue him or try to shut him down.

You gotta move on buddy, go grab a nice shot of Glennmorangie, sit, relax and chalk it up to experience..


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Actually I'm not blaming anyone, I just suggested it and could give a rat's behind what anyone thinks.


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## barecycles (Jan 10, 2012)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


I meant to mention this earlier. I contacted AWI (Architectural Woodwork Institute) to see if "Ted" is really a member and their response is, no he's not. I guess that makes sense since Ted is not real. The Membership Manager at AWI is aware of the claim on Ted's website of being a member and wanted to be clear that they have no affiliation with Ted or his company. But they did not seem to all-fired ready to do anything about it.

I think if someone was name-dropping my company on a sleazy site, I'd want to get it taken off of that site.


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## Stevinmarin (Dec 24, 2009)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


@JGM0658 Move on? Are you thinking that I actually bought these plans because I'm an idiot? Why do you think I got conned? Did you even watch any of my videos on this matter?? Did you even watch THIS video?Several guys donated money to help me buy them so I could see exactly what is there.

I find the phrase "just move on" insulting and condescending.

Why do my efforts bother you? The fact of the matter is that "Ted" is selling plans illegally, which affects all woodworkers. Here is a comprehensive list of the plans he is selling and where they are stolen from: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Byv0IjzK8MhvZVBWUzV4TmJEaXc

The magazines have decided that this is just a part of doing business and are not willing to spend a lot of money in lawsuits getting Ted to remove individual plans. As a result, it just makes their magazines and plans more expensive for the rest of us.

The worst part about this is the Clickbank has NO interest in abiding by its own stated policies. We have contacted them multiple times, and get form responses blowing this matter off. Copyrighters Sharing Information has sent them hard copy proof of the illegal nature of the plans and Clickbank still refuses to do anything.

Yes, I have heard your tired " too good to be true" cliche. Again, I am not an idiot. If nobody is willing or able to fight Ted on legal grounds, I am willing to expose this fraud for what it is. Brand new woodworkers are the most likely to waste money on this, and they are the ones I can reach. If nothing else, I would like to do SOMETHING to unclog YouTube from Ted's crap by posting a few videos that are likely to rank higher than the myriad of Ted search returns. Maybe then I'll "move on".


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Jeeezzz Steve, yes I saw this video. I understand why you are upset, but c'mon you need to step away from the coffee and chill out a bit. I actually like you and enjoy your videos, but really, if you let things like this bother you this much you are going to get sick man.

I could respond to you in kind but I won't, it is your thing, all I am saying is that we all have at one time or another been duped, gotten something we thought was worth while that turned out to be crap. Live and learn, it is not a matter of being stupid or not.

As for Clikbank, PayPal, etc. Now you know why I don't use them. 9 times out of 10 it is impossible to get your money back.

In the end it seems to me you have been bothered by this for a while now, you are the only one simmering in your own juices, Ted and clickbank are doing just peachy. This is why I stated to let it go, move on and get back to doing your videos which are fun to watch. My intention was not to offend you in any way, just trying to give you some friendly advice.

In the end you are the one wasting your energy and emotions tilting at windmills, I sincerely hope you achieve what you set out to do.


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## Jeff28078 (Aug 27, 2009)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


English philosopher Edmund Burke said, 'The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.'


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## ClayandNancy (Feb 22, 2010)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


That's the problem, we sit back and do nothing or we say someone else will take care of it. Myself I'm always leery when a deal sounds to good. When I got started I probably would have bought into Ted's crap but thanks to men like Steve I didn't. He possibly could save some newby money and from getting discouraged at the hobby/profession and just drop doing it. I applaud Steve and his effort to stop this kind of ripoffs. Will he succeed in this, I hope so. Unfortunately the world is driven by the almighty buck and unless there's a way for a large company to make money on stopping this type of crap, it won't change. But we as fellow woodworkers should help and encourage those who want to try. Steve you go get em!!! And thanks for all your contributions to woodworking MERE MORTALS FOREVER


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Ted appears to be a scumbag, that's for certain. I meet scumbags on a daily basis. They're a dime a dozen on the internet. It looks like you've invested a lot of time in pursuit of this cheat. I applaud you for the dedication and I hope you get some resolution. I simply can't get that worked up about it but perhaps that's my fault. Like everyone else, I really enjoy your videos. You're great in front of the camera, better than most I see on the ole tube.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


we sit back and do nothing or we say someone else will take care of it

No, I am not advocating to sit back and do nothing. What I am saying is that there is a point of diminished returns. Steve has put a lot of effort and energy into something that it seems is no longer worth while. Do a search on this site about Ted's plans and you will see this is not the first time someone has been taken or has decided not to get the plans because it seemed fraudulent.

In the internet it is up to us to do our due diligence and research. I can't count the times I have thought of buying something but after a few searches I have found it was either no good or a fraud. I understand Steve being upset, but he does bear some of the blame for not doing his homework.


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## Stevinmarin (Dec 24, 2009)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


JGM0658

"I understand Steve being upset, but he does bear some of the blame for not doing his homework."

Wait, what??? I really don't understand what you are thinking. Do you believe I was duped into buying these plans? I was never duped, I never bought these plans, except recently to determine what was in them and to see if any of MY stuff was stolen. To accuse me of not doing homework on this matter is utterly ignorant on your part. Again, I ask…have you seen my videos and read my articles on this matter. Homework indeed.

All of this first came to my attention a number of years ago when Tom Iovino was researching it and wrote an article from Wood Magazine. I made a video on this way back then, too.

*My videos (i.e. my property) are continually ripped off and re-uploaded to YouTube channels by people who use them to promote Ted's Woodworking. * Hardly a week goes by where a new one doesn't crop up. I will NOT sit back without fighting this.

So yeah…it pisses me off. But "move on" reminds me of two other expressions I despise that people toss at anyone whose actions they disapprove. Usually somebody who is passionate about something: "Get a life" and "You have too much time on your hands". Being passionate is looked down upon by such individuals who somehow feel they know better ways to spend time.

So I'll throw a cliche at you: "Move over". If you don't approve of my actions, step aside. How I choose to spend my time is not for you to determine. Move over if you feel illegal activities aren't worth investigating or fighting.


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## ClayandNancy (Feb 22, 2010)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Here Here Steve!!! It's very evident whose not doing their homework. I have watch all your videos on this and read your articles, JGM0658 definitely has no clue as to what you are doing. He also didn't get why and how you purchased Ted's crap.


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


*atta way to go, Steve!*

Keep it up!

Do what you haffta do… no matter what other people think!

GO GO GO… Steve… GO GO GO!


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


I have always thought that Ted's Woodworking plans were a scam of some sort. I was always curious about them too, however, and was somewhat tempted but always my scam alarm would go off and say "no, no, no don't do it". So I never pulled the trigger and bought them. Thanks for uncovering the scam and satisfying my curiosity about the plans. I hope this exposure makes a dent in Ted's profit. You would think that the bigger publications like Wood would go after him to protect their own interests. That is surprising to me that they don't feel it is worth it. I suppose if it turns out that Ted (Woody) Mcgrath is Nigerian he would be hard to prosecute. Thanks Steve for pursuing this.


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## Blackie_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


I too applaud you Steve, your efforts aren't going unnoticed that's for sure, I only wish I had found you sooner, I also agree that JGM0658 hasn't done his homework, a good example, the comment about not tursting paypal , 9 times out of 10 of not getting monies back? That there was enough for me.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


 "Move over".

Gladly, I was not the dupe who bought Ted's plans.


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## steliart (Jan 15, 2011)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Go get them Steve


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## EZCyclone (Apr 13, 2012)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Hey everybody, sorry this is my first post on LJ, even though I have been reading everything I could for some time. I live just 10 miles from the address that is listed on Ted's site. Clearly this is just a fake address but since it was so close I took a ride to video the area. That video can be seen here: 



 .

I also did some digging and found another site that was clearly connected to Ted's and built by and run by the same people. I traced that site back to Bangledesh.

Hopefully my next post will be more fun!
Evan


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


*EZCyclone:*

*Welcome Aboard!

Enjoy!
*

Thanks for the info!


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## 308Gap (Mar 6, 2010)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Steve maybe you've done more then anyone else has or is willing to do. Sometimes pissed off is a good thing, wherever your quest ends alot of us feel the same way. If you need help from others it sounds like LJ's has some real computer guys that could help. I need to go now, someones at my door trying to sell me another home alarm system, or vinyl siding. Maybe my dog will get out again by accident


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## Kookaburra (Apr 23, 2012)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


If you read and listen to Steve's comments, no - they are not worth it. SOME may be, but finding the ones you ant is almost impossible. Most are unusable.

There are lots of free plans on the web - check out this thread for suggestions. Or just do a google search - you can check out what you get before you put out the money. Plus public libraries are likely to have books of plans.


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## RobG713 (Nov 15, 2014)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Hey Steve, I'm a novice woodworker and yes I am one of the "dupes" who bit. I have sent 4 requests for refund through the "support" (HA!) email link. I have gotten no response. Can you tell me where on the website is the link to request the 60 day, no questions asked full refund? Thanks, a mere minutes fan.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Terrible Teds woodworking needs to be destroyed. Nothing but a con artist.


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## MrWolfe (Jan 23, 2018)

Stevinmarin said:


> *Ted's Woodworking fraud and Clickbank's compliance in theft and piracy*
> 
> I hope none of you mind me posting this on LJ. And I'm sorry that this topic and this series of videos has gotten so lengthy. For those of you who already subscribe to Mere Minutes, I promise I will get back to my usual stuff around the shop soon. Well, that and things like gardening tips that I certainly won't post on LumberJocks!
> 
> ...


Oh the irony!!!
I at least got a lil smile from the previous reply on this thread.
Flagged for spam.
Jon


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