# Finally have dust collection done!



## Raymer (Mar 5, 2018)

Well I didn't do anything special or new, but I got my first decent dust collection setup. I bought the Harbor Freight 2HP system, the HF dust collector accessory kit, Wood River cyclone lid and 30 gallon metal trash can.

I built a simple cart from scrap I had laying around and used the casters that came with the HF DC.

HF DC: $167.00
Accesory kit: $47.00
Cyclone lid: $24.00
Trashcan: $29.00

Total cost: $267 + tax

I was also given 4 10' pieces of 4" sewer drain which would have cost another $65, but thanks to the guys building out the new neighborhood, they said I could take them so they didn't have to haul them back.

I tested this thing briefly on my tablesaw and after a dozen cuts or so, I couldn't see anything in the plastic bag, all went to the trashcan.

The only issue I had initially was the 20amp breakers tripping when turning it on. I spent another $7 and replaced them with 30amp breakers and problem solved.


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## BlasterStumps (Mar 13, 2017)

What size wire is now being fed by your new 30 Amp breaker?


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## JohnMcClure (Aug 24, 2016)

Great solution. I wish I'd done it that way the first time.
However the breaker upgrade is going to raise some eyebrows unless the wire it feeds is appropriate gage. The breaker protects the wire and the new breaker offers less protection. 
The danger isn't your DC, it's the next resident who plugs in two space heaters on this 30a circuit. This could cause a fire.


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## Raymer (Mar 5, 2018)

> What size wire is now being fed by your new 30 Amp breaker?
> 
> - BlasterStumps


Do you mean the size of romex running in the wall? If that is what you mean, I believe it is 12-2, but I will double check.


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## BlasterStumps (Mar 13, 2017)

Yes, the size of romex running in the wall.


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## Raymer (Mar 5, 2018)

> Yes, the size of romex running in the wall.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


It appears the wire in the wall from the sub panel to the outlets is 12-2…...Oops. I have turned those breakers off and will put the 20 amps back in.

So, now I am back to square one. Can I run romex through the attic and then through conduit on the wall coming through the garage ceiling? I don't want to cut all the drywall out.

If I leave the 2 circuits at 20amp as wired and then just run a new circuit with 10-2 with a 30amp, isn't it safe to run the romex down a wall to a metal gang box as long as it's in conduit?


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I have a different thought. A lot of folks run those HF DCs on a 120V/20A circuit with no problem. Is there something else that could be wrong? Maybe you didn't have any ductwork connected to it and tried it out (that's a much bigger load on the motor).


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## panzer (Jun 1, 2017)

> Yes, the size of romex running in the wall.
> 
> - BlasterStumps
> 
> ...


You really aren't supposed to run romex in conduit. A easier solution would be to run type MC cable. It is it's own flexible metal conduit and should be fine exposed in this application. Check your local codes though.


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

> Yes, the size of romex running in the wall.
> 
> - BlasterStumps
> 
> ...


Yes, you can run the wire through your attic and drop it via conduit to a gang box. At least you can here in VA… Code differs by location though so you might want to verify.

Fred brings up a good point though. You should not be throwing a 20A breaker with your HF blower. Is that the only thing running on that circuit?

If you really do need a 30A, it would be highly unusual in my experience to have a 115V circuit that large. Seems like something is over-loading the blower. Or maybe your 20A breaker is just faulty and you need to replace it with a new 20A breaker? Maybe a slow-tripping variety to allow for the startup inrush current?


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## Raymer (Mar 5, 2018)

> I have a different thought. A lot of folks run those HF DCs on a 120V/20A circuit with no problem. Is there something else that could be wrong? Maybe you didn t have any ductwork connected to it and tried it out (that s a much bigger load on the motor).
> 
> - Fred Hargis


This….yes, it was throwing the breakers, but I didn't have any ductwork up yet. Didn't realize that could be a problem.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

What happens is the blower is trying to move much more air than it will with the ductwork attached, maybe 2-3 times as much. That would be on top of the bug start up load that the DC has anyway (spinning up that impeller puts a big draw on the circuit.). So all that puts such a load on the motor it will draw enough amps to trip the breaker. If you want to test it, cover the inlet with something and then turn it on. In this case it shouldn't be moving any air and the motor will essentially loafing along and not drawing too many amps.


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## fivecodys (Dec 2, 2013)

Another thought. Maybe replace the breaker with a new 20 Amp breaker. Could just be a bad breaker.
Just my 2 cents.


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## WhyMe (Feb 15, 2014)

If you are using an extension cord, get rid of it. Extension cords cause voltage drop which increases amps. DC should plug directly into wall outlet.


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## Raymer (Mar 5, 2018)

> Another thought. Maybe replace the breaker with a new 20 Amp breaker. Could just be a bad breaker.
> Just my 2 cents.
> 
> - fivecodys


Good idea, I'll do that tomorrow, they're cheap, might as well.


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## Raymer (Mar 5, 2018)

> If you are using an extension cord, get rid of it. Extension cords cause voltage drop which increases amps. DC should plug directly into wall outlet.
> 
> - WhyMe


Even using a short 12ga extension cord isn't good? Where I have a place for my DC, there is no outlet within reach.


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## WhyMe (Feb 15, 2014)

#12 short cord should be fine. If short is 10 - 12ft. I know the manual states what cord can be used but my experience with motor loads, extension cords can cause problems.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Raymer, let us know how things go….


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## BlueRidgeDog (Jan 2, 2019)

Lots of folks making suggestions, so I will add that you need to test the amperage load of the unit on start an at idle. Prior to running it for extended period I would make certain it is not a dud.


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## Raymer (Mar 5, 2018)

> Lots of folks making suggestions, so I will add that you need to test the amperage load of the unit on start an at idle. Prior to running it for extended period I would make certain it is not a dud.
> 
> - BlueRidgeDog


I am buying new 20 amp breakers today, in case the repeated trips on the old ones damaged them. Then hooking up the DC with the ductwork so it has a load. I picked up a Fluke clamp meter yesterday (been looking for a reason to get one) and will test the start up amperage as well as the running amps. I think what someone mentioned earlier about starting it with no ductwork was why it was tripping.

If all is good, I am leaving my 20amp circuits alone and running a new dedicated 30amp with 10-2. I need another outlet or two anyway as my garage only has two currently.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

IMO 30A is unnecessary. That would be for something like a 5HP motor.

As mentioned 12ga wire on 20A is more than adequate.

What specs are on the motor plate?

On another note, 4" duct is too small for that blower. I suggest using 6".


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## jamsomito (Mar 26, 2017)

Guys, no need for a 30A circuit for the HF 2HP DC, unless there's something wrong with your motor. I recently went through this whole headache, got an electrician involved, and we had some interesting findings. Running wide open, the collector only pulled about 14A, but it was still tripping my standard 20A circuit with 12ga wires. The electrician measured startup amps and found it was pulling up in the mid 60's (!), and it was sustained long enough to trip. We put in a 30A breaker briefly so it would start and measure everything. After measuring, he was comfortable leaving the 30A in until we found a long term solution. So - as long as you are aware of this, while it doesn't meet code, you can get away with it. However, in the long run, it is not providing the protection the circuit needs, so you should probably look into alternatives.

I don't know what kind of panel you have, but for me I have a Square D QO panel. They make what they call "High Magnetic" load breakers, specifically QO120HM. These allow for a stronger and more sustained inrush current, but still trip at 20 Amps. We ordered some, put them in, and I haven't had a problem since. It will meet code and protect the circuit just the same. Other brands might call them high inrush, or slow trip. I highly recommend you look into these breakers for an induction motor load like this.

There's simply no need to put in a new circuit or go up to 30A. Hope this helps.


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## Raymer (Mar 5, 2018)

> Guys, no need for a 30A circuit for the HF 2HP DC, unless there s something wrong with your motor. I recently went through this whole headache, got an electrician involved, and we had some interesting findings. Running wide open, the collector only pulled about 14A, but it was still tripping my standard 20A circuit with 12ga wires. The electrician measured startup amps and found it was pulling up in the mid 60 s (!), and it was sustained long enough to trip. We put in a 30A breaker briefly so it would start and measure everything. After measuring, he was comfortable leaving the 30A in until we found a long term solution. So - as long as you are aware of this, while it doesn t meet code, you can get away with it. However, in the long run, it is not providing the protection the circuit needs, so you should probably look into alternatives.
> 
> I don t know what kind of panel you have, but for me I have a Square D QO panel. They make what they call "High Magnetic" load breakers, specifically QO120HM. These allow for a stronger and more sustained inrush current, but still trip at 20 Amps. We ordered some, put them in, and I haven t had a problem since. It will meet code and protect the circuit just the same. Other brands might call them high inrush, or slow trip. I highly recommend you look into these breakers for an induction motor load like this.
> 
> ...


I have the exact same Square D panel. Should Home Depot carry those breakers?


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## Raymer (Mar 5, 2018)

> IMO 30A is unnecessary. That would be for something like a 5HP motor.
> 
> As mentioned 12ga wire on 20A is more than adequate.
> 
> ...


This DC has a 5" outlet but everywhere I read said it was designed for 4" ductwork? Even the accessory kit they sell for it is 4". Don't think I have see 5" duct anywhere and 6" is pretty big. All my tools are 4" dust chutes, does it defeat the purpose of running 6" just to step down to 4" at the drop?


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

> I have the exact same Square D panel. Should Home Depot carry those breakers?
> 
> - Raymer


Square D breakers are available almost everywhere, including HD. They are (I think) different from the Square D Homeline breakers, so be sure to get the ones for the QO panel. I also think 4" is OK for that collector….that impeller is only 10" (+/-).


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## WhyMe (Feb 15, 2014)

I'm running my HF dust collector with the larger Rikon impeller and the running amps is slightly over 14A and startup is over 70A. It's on a 20A circuit with a standard Square-D Homeline breaker and I have no tripping problems.


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## WhyMe (Feb 15, 2014)

I don't see if you said that the dust collector is the only thing running on the circuit when it trips the breaker. I assume it is.


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## Raymer (Mar 5, 2018)

> I don t see if you said that the dust collector is the only thing running on the circuit when it trips the breaker. I assume it is.
> 
> - WhyMe


The only other thing plugged into that circuit is my sprinkler system and its not running, it's less than 1amp.


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## panzer (Jun 1, 2017)

A simple way to check it would be to just plug it into another circuit, one that you are sure has no other loads and without an extension cord, and see if the problem goes away. If it starts ok either the breaker is the issue or there is a additional load on the original circuit somewhere that you are not aware of. If that breaker trips also then there is something wrong with the DC.

Either a 20A Square D Homeline or standard QO breaker should handle the inrush current of a HF DC motor with no problem. A high mag breaker may allow it to run but might just be a band-aid. If the inrush is getting high enough or lasting long enough to trip a standard breaker I'd bet there is still something wrong in the motor.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

> This DC has a 5" outlet but everywhere I read said it was designed for 4" ductwork? Even the accessory kit they sell for it is 4". Don t think I have see 5" duct anywhere and 6" is pretty big. All my tools are 4" dust chutes, does it defeat the purpose of running 6" just to step down to 4" at the drop?
> 
> - Raymer


Don't go by what HF says. I have no doubt it will perform much better using larger ducts. Check with some reputable DC sites like Oneida or ClearVue. Run 6" as close to machine as possible, then reduct to 4" flex.


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## brtech (May 26, 2010)

Actually, as Penz points out, too big of duct is a problem. The HF DC does have a 5" outlet, which is immediately split into two 4" ducts. You would have to run the calculations, but I believe you will find that a 6" duct will be too big and you would lose power. 5" duct probably would be better than 4". but it's hard to find 5" duct cost effectively.


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## Raymer (Mar 5, 2018)

> Actually, as Penz points out, too big of duct is a problem. The HF DC does have a 5" outlet, which is immediately split into two 4" ducts. You would have to run the calculations, but I believe you will find that a 6" duct will be too big and you would lose power. 5" duct probably would be better than 4". but it s hard to find 5" duct cost effectively.
> 
> - brtech


Yes sir. I went ahead with 4" sewer drain and even found the 4" fittings, wyes, couplers etc. The sewer drain is lighter, easier to run and a lot cheaper. Didn't even see any 6" sewer pipe. I hooked up 20' of sewer drain with 4" flex hose to my tablesaw last night and cut up a bunch of scrap. The DC sucked it up like a champ and none of it even made it to the DC plastic bag, it was all in the cyclone trashcan.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

6" thinwall PVC is very hard to find, for whatever reason. Sounds like you have what you want…and the breaker problem has went away.


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## fivecodys (Dec 2, 2013)

> Actually, as Penz points out, too big of duct is a problem. The HF DC does have a 5" outlet, which is immediately split into two 4" ducts. You would have to run the calculations, but I believe you will find that a 6" duct will be too big and you would lose power. 5" duct probably would be better than 4". but it s hard to find 5" duct cost effectively.
> 
> - brtech


You are absolutely right. I spent hours reading about all of this before building my system. 
Between the Bill Pentz articles and the Guys at Oneida, the solution was clear.
5" was the optimum size duct for my unit and the SDD I wanted. 
I had to pony up for 5" ducting. It wasn't cheap but it was the right call in my situation.


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