# Where to start with hand cut joints



## zippymorocco (Nov 15, 2014)

Hello,

I am interested in learning how to hand cut dovetails and other joints. I have a lot of experience in the shop but very little using hand tools. The tools I have at hand are a LN set of chisels, a couple of premium planes and a Japanese style saw. Though I do make a living in the wood shop I am exploring hand tools and traditional joinery on my own.

My questions are:

Should I run out and buy a dovetail saw or begin with what I have?

Is the dovetail the right place to start or are there some other fundamentals that I should learn first?

Any suggestions that you have to help me take the right steps down this path will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

I think you can use any saw. I use a crosscut saw (Dewalt) from home depot for dovetail as well as mortise and tenons. Maybe start with mortise and tenon first. Follow the lines.


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## Tedstor (Mar 12, 2011)

I have a handful of joinery saws, but I usually use a small $7 hacksaw for dovetails.


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## TheTurtleCarpenter (Jun 25, 2015)

Start by making practice joints out of different materials and watching videos on YouTube, evaluate your work and make adjustments. Sounds like you have all the tools you need. Keep Em' Sharp !


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## CharlesA (Jun 24, 2013)

for dovetails, there is a great, cheap saw that is pretty highly regarded: http://www.olsonsaw.net/dosaw18.html-$11.


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## rad457 (Jun 15, 2013)

> for dovetails, there is a great, cheap saw that is pretty highly regarded: http://www.olsonsaw.net/dosaw18.html-$11.
> - CharlesA


Great saws for dovetails, blades are replaceable and can be used on the pull stroke like a japanese saw!
Best of all cheap buy a few different TPI's.


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## drcodfish (Oct 17, 2015)

Rather than start by buying equipment, I recommend you start by watching this video.


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## TiggerWood (Jan 1, 2014)

If you practice and succeed in making a good dovetail, mortise and tenon joints will be a piece of cake.


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## WoodNSawdust (Mar 7, 2015)

Christopher Schwartz, a hand tool expert, in one of his videos suggested that the dovetail is the wrong place to start if you are new to hand tools. He suggested practice with the saw and work on joints and finally end up working on dovetails.

How good are you with your handsaw? I would start practicing with it. Draw a series of parallel lines and practice till you can cut following the line.

Practice cutting tenons using your saw. When everything comes out correct then move on to dovetails.

This is what worked for me.


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## Texcaster (Oct 26, 2013)

I would start with whatever interests you the most.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

What he said. For me it was the joinery on my bench. Marking gauge, square and a T-bevel is a must for me.


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## zippymorocco (Nov 15, 2014)

Thank you all for the information. I watched the video along with many others. I am interested in learning dovetail mostly because I want to make a sewing box using them. At work, I have a Stickley style table that has a couple of through tenons coming up. Maybe starting with tenons would be best. For that table I had been planning on cutting the mortise and tenons with machines as well as utilizing loose tenons for construction.

Now on my own, I would like to spend some time learning these skills and ultimately would love to add them to the mix of things we do at work. Though I have a lot of freedom at work and am in charge of the shop and the woodworking that we do I am also trying to produce at a rate that brings income so that we can keep doing this type of work. We are a custom remodel company that is currently defining a custom woodworking/cabinet shop as part of what we do. Besides learning these skills for fun I am trying to develop a combinations of tools that our company can use to sell a unique and high quality product.

Well, maybe I am a bit off topic now but my point is. I would really like to become a very good woodworker while having missed my apprenticeship.

I am attaching a photo of a piece that I was putting the pulls on Friday. There are two drawers above the doors that don't have pulls yet. There is a whole house full of this type of casework, newel posts and cabinets. Also, this is the house that I will build the table for. I am very proud of all of it and have become very interested in the techniques used in craftsman style furniture. I used false tenons, dominoes and pocket screws because that is what I know. I did hand mortise some hand made pyramid pins into the false tenons of a couple of mirrors. Took me all day too but I liked it! There has to be a way to bring these two worlds together.

Thank you all for the great information. It is good to have found some people passionate about the craft.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Japanese joinery's one of my favorites.









Enjoy your journey!


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## zippymorocco (Nov 15, 2014)

Wow! Japanese joinery looks great. Time to go look at some google images!


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## ElChe (Sep 28, 2014)

I like western dovetail saws. I find it harder to cut to a line with a Japanese saw. The japanese saw is much eadier to start the cut. I do tails first because that's how I learned. Franz Klausz teaches pins first. I remove most of waste with a coping saw and then chisel to the scribed depth for which I use a marking gsuge. I layout the tails with dividers. What I found most helpful was practicing cutting to a tail line and to a pin line.

I bought an expensive western dovetail saw but it isn't necessary. A sharp rip saw is all that is needed. Lee Valley sells a nice dovetail saw for 60 bucks. And zona sells a gents style saw for ten bucks that is nice and sharp.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

I learned by watching that Klausz video years and years ago.

You already have a set of very nice chisels, I would just see how the saw works out for you.
I've always used a western saw, so can't comment but I've seen many use japanese saws.
You don't need to spend $250 on a DT saw. The saw I use is the one Lee Valley sells.

Once you've gotten started a bit, then I would try different techniques and see which one suits you.

A few things that have evolved for me:

I started out pins first but now I'm a big fan of tails first because you can cut multiple sides at once.

I'm also a fan of making a shallow rabbet in the tail board I think it makes marking alot easier.

Moxon vise. If you haven't considered one, check them out. I made mine into a bench top vise:


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## Holbs (Nov 4, 2012)

When I jumped into dovetails, I learned rather fast that I was horrible cutting in a perfect straight line needed for dovetailing. I say… practice 100 cuts of straight up and down lines, and then 100 angle lines. Learn body stance, arm movement, etc as fundamentals first. The "chisel techniques for precision joinery" by David Charlesworth REALLY helped me out alot.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

A very good resource:










Available from Lost Art Press, all the hand joinery you'll ever need.


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## BubbaIBA (Nov 23, 2011)

> Hello,
> 
> I am interested in learning how to hand cut dovetails and other joints. I have a lot of experience in the shop but very little using hand tools. The tools I have at hand are a LN set of chisels, a couple of premium planes and a Japanese style saw. Though I do make a living in the wood shop I am exploring hand tools and traditional joinery on my own.
> 
> ...


Learn to saw: Learn how to stand, how to hold the saw, and how to let the saw do the work. Learn how the wood works, how "tight" the joint needs to be made for a good fit that does not leave gaps nor split the wood. Learn to mark.

Practice making dovetails, with each set figure out what went right and what was wrong. Correct the things done poorly on the next set. And finally….Learn to saw .

I trained using Western Back Saws so of course I find them easier to use. The LV saws are very good and are inexpensive.

Dovetails are a good place to start, they teach most of the basic skills of marking, sawing, and chiseling and even sharpening because without sharp chisels the cross grain waste areas will be butt ugly, plus there is very good feed back when making them as to what was done correctly and what was not.

Go for it, the through dovetail is one of the easier joints to make by hand, much easier than a M/T.

ken


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## Beau1954 (Nov 7, 2015)

> I learned by watching that Klausz video years and years ago.
> 
> You already have a set of very nice chisels, I would just see how the saw works out for you.
> I ve always used a western saw, so can t comment but I ve seen many use japanese saws.
> ...


RWE, have you been in my shop, I made the benchtop vice just like the one you have. adjusted the height so it is the perfect height for me. I made mine with a 24" span so I can do dovetails for the Hope chest I build. I never could get the hang of a pull saw so I use the Lee Valley dovetail saw. I cut tails first because it is easier for me to layout the pins from there.


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## bonesbr549 (Jan 1, 2010)

Well as someone who started down this path a few months before you, I can only tell you my experience. I used both a western style saw (not expensive one), and a dozuki (pardon the sp). I like the D because its easier for me to keep the strait line and to start it. I'd like to try one of Rob Cosmons saws but a tad high for me right now. I use a good marking gauge. Sharp chisels are the next thing to have for sure.

Finally practice. I just started cutting and it's getting better with time.

I also bought a marking guide and its been sweet.

http://davidbarronfurniture.blogspot.com/2013/03/new-magnetic-dovetail-guide.html


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

You have the tools. All you need is practice.

Lie Nielen dovetail saw here. It's my most used saw by far. 125$ is nothing after you use it for awhile.


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## zippymorocco (Nov 15, 2014)

Thank you all for your comments. I have been practicing a dovetail a day after work. Tonight was the first one that came out passable. Definitely still rough around the edges but getting better. It has been humbling experience and a lot of fun.

I ended up making a guide out of quarter sawn white oak like the ones that Daid Barron makes. It has been a helpful jumpstart.

Here is a couple of pictures of my progress.


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## zippymorocco (Nov 15, 2014)

Well, all the practice paid off and I was able to complete that I am very happy with! Thank you for the pointers.









http://lumberjocks.com/projects/215994


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## Texcaster (Oct 26, 2013)

> Well, all the practice paid off and I was able to complete that I am very happy with! Thank you for the pointers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My word the practice paid off! Very well done!


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Yeah buddy. Nothing like practice.


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## waho6o9 (May 6, 2011)

Practice and sharp chisels


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## Tonymanfre (Feb 26, 2016)

I have some detail of a joinery services firm Retail joinery australia at sydney

Business Name: Retail Joinery Australasia 
Business Phone Number: 02 96540777
Business Address: PO Box 349 Kenthurst NSW 215 New Business Address : 6 Daking Street, North Parramatta NSW 2151


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