# Titebond hide glue needs a warning: do not use for sticking wood together



## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

F!!!!!!

Lots of people here recommended hide glue as the solution to all my glue mark problems.

Today I find out that a custom desk I shipped across the country had an edge joint that used it fail.

Just now I'm getting ready to glue the corners of a frame together, with panels that I've edge-joined using that ridiculous stuff that pretends to be glue, that I spent a lot of time jointing, flattening, and sanding… and F me, a Titebond hide glued edge joint failed before I'd even put the clamps on.

F)(#$)(*#$!!!! ME IN THE NECK!

That glue is CRAP. Maybe you can use it for small crafts projects, but it's not for furniture.

Now I have to take apart all my panels and re-glue them. The desk I'm working on now is also going across the country, and I'm just not going to take a chance on a $700 return and back shipping charge.

Did I mention that I'm not very happy with Titebond hide glue right now?

As you can see, these are not garage work tables made out of 2×4s, they're custom composer's desks that take a lot of work, with a lot of moving parts (actually just one - the sliding desktop) - to say nothing of heart and soul.


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

^ That's the actual desk that arrived with a failed edge joint. It's staged here in my living room for the photo.

I should add that Titebond's regular wood glue is very good. It's just the Glue That Must Not Be Named I'm ragging on.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

Sorry you had to learn that lesson the hard way. 
Titebond makes great pva glues but that titebond hide glue is weak.
Anyone that's thinking of using it should do some simple over night glue ups on scraps. The glue will fail before the wood fibers.
Good Luck


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

Hide glue isn't all it's cracked up to be in my limited experience with the hot stuff. I'm not saying with experience it can't do amazing things, but learning to get it right can be a hassle.


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## SMP (Aug 29, 2018)

Hmm haven't had any problems with it for various things. I'm guessing somewhere in shipping it was probably exposed to high heat and humidity, as its designed to release in those conditions.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

I've never recommended the Titebond liquid hide glue product. If you want off-the-shelf LHG, use Old Brown Glue. It's the real thing. You can even make your own very easily for a fraction of the price.

However, suggesting that hide glue in general isn't all it's cracked up to be is a disservice to the community of woodworkers here. Hide glue is an excellent glue, if you know what you're doing, and in fact, is the *only* glue that should be used in a variety of situations.


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

Thanks Aj2.


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

So Old Brown Glue won't have the same problem, Rich?

For this project I'm not taking any chances, but I'll experiment with it for the future if the consensus is that it's good stuff.

And yeah, I'm not interested in making my own or having to use crock pots, etc. Nothing at all wrong with that, it's just not my kind of activity.


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## CWWoodworking (Nov 28, 2017)

Why can't you just use pva?


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> So Old Brown Glue won t have the same problem, Rich?
> 
> - nickbatz


If the glue is fresh and properly applied, it will create a bond stronger than the wood. I've done tests with OBG and my homemade glue, as well as all of my other protein glues and they all perform well. I have had LHG go bad, so you have to pay attention to it.

A quick and easy test to see if the glue is still fresh is to put a smear on your finger and then tap it repeatedly against your thumb. If the glue is good, fine threads will begin to develop. The speed at which they develop depends on the glue (gram strength, liquid or hot, etc).

As has been mentioned, protein glues are reversible with heat and moisture, so keep that in mind as you consider what environment your pieces will exist in.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

+1 what Rich said. 
I'm one of the hide glue guys here and I have never recommended Titebond LHG either. In my case I have no experience with it. I have experience with OBG, all good but when push comes to shove, I'll go with hot hide glue. IMHO it is the real deal and LHG of whatever pedigree comes second.
For what it's worth my next choice for quality work is urea formaldehyde, another hard setting glue. I'm not much of a fan of PVA for fine work.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Frankly, when it comes to liquid protein glues for general woodworking, I'll take fish glue any day¹. Like Paul said, hot hide glue reigns, but there are times when a glue that's liquid at room temp is nice to have. And hey, like the OP said, some don't want to futz with glue pots, etc.

Fish glue is almost magical. It offers an immediate tack, yet boasts a long open time-up to 30 minutes. At twenty-something dollars a gallon, it's a good deal.

¹ No one glue suits all purposes.


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

> Why can't you just use pva?
> 
> - CWWoodworking


If Titebond's regular wood glue is PVA, the answer is that I can and am doing so.

The only issue I have with it is that I keep getting glue marks when finishing, and they were driving me bonkers. People have recommended mineral spirits to locate them first - but you can't get mineral spirits in CA for environmental reasons, so I have to find a substitute. That's probably what I'll do for now.

Right now I'm making one of the desks shown above out of solid walnut, to be finished with OSMO Polyx oil, and I'm hoping that's somewhat forgiving.


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## Tony_S (Dec 16, 2009)

> Why can't you just use pva?
> 
> - CWWoodworking
> 
> ...


Bobs yer uncle


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> The only issue I have with it is that I keep getting glue marks when finishing, and they were driving me bonkers. People have recommended mineral spirits to locate them first - but you can t get mineral spirits in CA for environmental reasons, so I have to find a substitute. That s probably what I ll do for now.
> 
> - nickbatz


Check this out: https://www.lumberjocks.com/RichTaylor/blog/119665


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## gdaveg (Aug 1, 2020)

> Why can't you just use pva?
> 
> - CWWoodworking
> 
> ...


Drive over to Nevada or Arizona and smuggle in some mineral spirits.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Bobs yer uncle
> 
> - Tony_S


I posted my blog link to the fluorescent Titebond II before checking out your link. Great stuff. I've been using it for a couple of years. It, and a $10 UV flashlight, have saved me so many times. It'll show glue residue that is not visible to the naked eye, but will affect your finish.


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## CWWoodworking (Nov 28, 2017)

Rich, I use TB 1. Would the fluorescent TB mix with it 50/50?


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## CaptainKlutz (Apr 23, 2014)

> Rich, I use TB 1. Would the fluorescent TB mix with it 50/50? - CWWoodworking


 Wilsonart also distributes WS-20 in a UV dyed type I yellow PVA adhesive

Woodworker.com sells UV dye glue additive that works in any aliphatic glue?
JE Moser is Wood Workers internal house brand.
Personally I don't like mixing up a big bottle of glue, but UV dye works. 
There are specialty companies that sell powdered UV dyes, dissolved into various compatible carriers for use in anything: water, sewage, oil, different glue or finish coatings, etc. But they are in the commercial/professional realm. Not many hobbyist need a $500-$1000 5 gal pail of UV dye (that takes several lifetimes to use up).

Cheers!


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Rich, I use TB 1. Would the fluorescent TB mix with it 50/50?
> 
> - CWWoodworking


Pardon my down-to-earth reply, but I can't imagine why you can't mix Titebond I with the fluorescent Titebond II. You might not even have to go to 50/50. A 25% solution would probably work, although I've never tried it.

It's a game-changer for sure. You can even see glue that's remaining down in the pores of open pored woods. Like I said above, even glue that's only a film that's not visible to the naked eye shows up. I do a lot of frame and panel construction, and the UV will expose remnants of glue down in the rail/stile joints.

It's easy to get anal about glue purity, but at the end of the day, does it provide a sound connection between pieces of wood? If so, I'm not going to overthink it.


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## woodbutcherbynight (Oct 21, 2011)

> I ve never recommended the Titebond liquid hide glue product. If you want off-the-shelf LHG, use Old Brown Glue. It s the real thing. You can even make your own very easily for a fraction of the price.
> 
> However, suggesting that hide glue in general isn t all it s cracked up to be is a disservice to the community of woodworkers here. Hide glue is an excellent glue, if you know what you re doing, and in fact, is the *only* glue that should be used in a variety of situations.
> 
> - Rich


Very sound advice.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

I just realized that I spaced out on a blog post I did that directly relates to the start of this thread.

Yes, it's true! Hide glue fluoresces. Here's the proof:

https://www.lumberjocks.com/RichTaylor/blog/118897


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

> Bobs yer uncle
> 
> - Tony_S


Thanks, and yeah, the reason I'm using hide glue in the first place is because of a thread I posted a while ago - for this reason.


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## nickbatz (Mar 7, 2018)

> Drive over to Nevada or Arizona and smuggle in some mineral spirits.
> 
> - gdaveg


Well, it was banned for solid environmental reasons. I also live here.


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