# Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?



## LittlePaw (Dec 21, 2009)

*Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*

I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


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## NateMeadows (May 11, 2012)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


Paul, we need more information. What kind of saw is it, 10, 12, 14in? and what size of motor is it?

Nate


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


You have to have a phase converter or 3 phase power installed. Most homes can't get 3 phase so you go for the cheaper alternative. There are rotary phase converters and static phase converters. The rotary converter use a motor that has to be the same size as the motor you saw uses. I found that I could buy a new motor for the table saw cheaper than I could buy the converter. I bought a static converter. It is a box with a couple of capacitors in it. I was able to get a Christmas special on eBay for $48. You get 2/3 of the HP from the motor. They claim it will shorten the life of the motor. I talked to 2 guys locally that use them. The first guy told me he was making his own converters. The other told me he had used them in the oil field for over 10 years and had no problems with them or the motor but you can run anything that starts under a load….like an air compressor. If it takes half the life from my motor what have I lost. I am older and it will likely outlive me. If not I will buy a new motor and go on because it is still cheaper than the rotary. Those are my thoughts. If you can get the power company to install 3 phase go for that but …good luck there. BTW the static should match your motor in HP.


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


You said you were a "Carver"... Why do you need a 220v 3 Phase Table Saw?

What are you going to use the Table Saw for? (beings you're a carver?) LOL

Thank you.


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## LittlePaw (Dec 21, 2009)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


Thanx to you guys for your input. I appreciate it. The saw I'm looking to buy - to replace my old Rigid ts - is a Grizzly Mod 1023 w/a 5 hp 3 Phase motor. If I were to buy this saw, what must I buy in addition to operate it safely in my home shop? Yes, I am mainly a carver, but since the wood don't always come the exactly the size I need, I have to cut them to size and this happens to be the only saw I've found recently that's affordable ($750). The cabinet saw retails (at Grizzly) for $1,400 (w/a single phase motor) plus $150 to ship. It comes with a 52" extension and a built-in router table, weighs over 500 lbs. Would you consider this a good buy, guys?


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## Jimthecarver (Jan 14, 2008)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


Being a carver I find plenty of need for my saw. Its a Jet cabinet saw similar to the one your looking for and love it.
I would be lost w/o my table saw.
Good luck with your electrical situation.


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## LittlePaw (Dec 21, 2009)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


Looks like I'd have to buy a 5hp single phase motor to replace the one that comes with the saw. Thanx guys. Grizzly sells one for $400 . . . ouch! I'll see if I can find one locally for less. You're right Jim, I too use the TS quite often for many things some unrelated to carving. The key thing, IMHO is that a TS is worthless unless it can repeat accurate cuts and my Rigid if starting to lose it. Thanx for your thorough input, Grandpa - funny calling you grandpa, since i'm probably older than you!


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


Hey,

What are you cutting? 3 phase 220 requires a converter to up grade a 220 single phase which you can get wired into your box as long as the box has adequate amperage to handle the current needs of what ever you are running. Normal house line is 220 single phase.

You can get the 1023 with a 220 motor that does not need an 3 phase converter. Unless you are looking to buy a used commercial which are abundant on ebay.

I bought a used 3 hp 1023 which will function (I hope) for my uses. It was the main saw in a cabinet builders shop for 7 years and he bought the newer RL version. I was going to buy a new one but didn't have the money.

Which would be adequate if you are not planning to run it all day?


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


Check your options. Phase converter may be the way to go.


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## davidroberts (Nov 8, 2008)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


Someone may have mentioned using a variable frequency drive (VFD), or aka AC drives to run 3-phase motors on single phase household current. There are a lot of woodworkers and small shop owners that have bought equipment from school district auction sites. And larger shops mostly run 3-phase because it is much more efficient that single phase. In other words, there is a lot of 3-phase on the market from various sources. There are some advantages to going digital verses static, but then again, static has been around a long time, and it is cheap. Not as efficient but in a small shop, probably doesn't really matter. VFD life cycle is usually rated at around 7 to 10 years of continuous daily use, or in the case of the average hobby woodworker, maybe much longer. They are affected by excessive heat (hot garage not good) and dust (need to keep VFD in an enclosure). The are about the size of a one lb coffee can, weigh 5 lbs or so, and for a 5hp will cost $150 to $200 or so. I recommend you check out this website link just to check out another option. There are a few companies that manufacture/sell/both VFDs. You will get several google hits on woodworking sites using Factorymation as your search criteria. They sell the TECO brand made by Westinghouse. I have one on a Leeson 2hp PM jointer. Works great.


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## Ted78 (Dec 3, 2012)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


If you end up replacing the motor, you could probably get away with a much smaller, and cheaper motor. Unless you're routinely ripping railroad ties, 5 hp is overkill. A commercial shop might need 5 horses so they feed long boards and sheet goods through really fast, and get away with longer periods between sharpening their blades.

I have a tiny 1/2 hp motor on an old 9" delta TS and am perfectly happy with it. While a 1/2 hp motor on a $1000 saw is letting a lot of the saws potential go to wast, I'd be willing to bet no one would even notice a difference 
between a 3 and 5 hp motor on it., and there is a considerable price difference between the two.

Of course my old 80's craftsman table saw proudly proclaims 2.5 HP DIRECT DRIVE in bold letters across it's front, and it's a screaming, inaccurate, seemingly underpowered piece of junk.


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## dee2 (Jan 2, 2012)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


I know this much from looking at a house for sale with 3 phase in a huge workshop. You must have the 3 phase coming in into the building. So I would say offhand that the equipment would need reworked. Here in Ohio, they say it is much cheaper than normal service. If my hubby was not sleeping at the moment, I think he may know more about it


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## roman (Sep 28, 2007)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


I had the same problem and bought a rotary phase converter to the tune of 3,500 buckaroos, plus a significantly large invoice from a master electrician. Maybe you could find a used one ?


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## LittlePaw (Dec 21, 2009)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


3,500 bucks! You're kidding, right? It's looking more and more like I just need to forget about this particular TB - sort of like buying a diesel semi to go grocery shopping at Walmart?! LOL ?


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## LittlePaw (Dec 21, 2009)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


Boiling all this wealth of information and input, would you agree that I can just get a 3hp 220v single ph motor to replace what comes with the Grizz? I now realize that this TB is way over kill for me, but if I can make it work for no more than $750 total, I'd go for it. What do you think?


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


Buy the static converter. I did. Then, if and when the motor dies, buy a new 3 hp single phase for $800. This may never happen….in my lifetime. Who knows. Depends on starts of the motor and use.


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## Ted78 (Dec 3, 2012)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


I'm not that familiar with phase converters, if you could get one that works for your purpose for under $200 I'd go for it. You'd end up with a really nice setup.
If not Harbor freight sells a 3 hp motor that would work for about $150. 
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=motor


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


I built a 5hp rotary phase converter for about $300.

For a 5hp rotary I needed a 220 volt supply line with 
a pair of 30 amp breakers. The breakers were
cheap and I already had a 30 amp 110 volt dryer/RV 
line that I converted.

Now for a 5hp saw you need a bigger rotary so you'd
want to go up to 7.5 hp on the idler at least. Getting
the idler motor is not a problem, but you will need to
run a 220 volt line with a pair of 40 amp breakers.

I don't use my rotary converter to run saws - I use it
for a line boring machine and 600lb a lipping planer,
both of which have odd, proprietary European 
3ph motors that would be a pain to switch out.

I ran the lipping planer on a VFD for a couple of months
when I first got it running.


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


*LittlePaw*
... since when does the HP and Phase have anything to do with the TS being able to make more reliable repeated cuts?

I think it is possible to get good repeatability from table saws with less than 5 HP and only having single phase motors!

Where did you get the idea that HP & Phase effected the reliability of accurate repeated cuts?

Just curious… Never heard of such a thing… LOL


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


Littlepaw, I don't think you will find a 5 hp motor that is single phase. You might. Not all mountings are the same so you have to find the correct mounting system. Iven if it is a left tilt tablesaw or whatever you want to put it on, it might be different as brands and models change. Do your research well.


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## LittlePaw (Dec 21, 2009)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


You missed the whole point, Joe, just like all those thinking to punish criminals by taking away the Second Amendment rights from law abiding people. Just as gun ownership had nothing to do with tragic shootings, motor hp and phase have nothing to do with accuracy of cuts on a TS, and you know it. My old Rigid ts was starting to not make accurate repeat cuts, maybe because of inferior quality in design/manufacture or just plain wore out. While looking around for a replacement saw, I came across this Grizzly 5hp 3 phase saw for sale. But since I know nothing about 3 vs single phase motors, I looked to LJ for input and help. I am very glad I did. What I found was members most willing and took their precious time to help and advise me which saved me a ton of money and aggravation, except you who tried to ridicule and criticize me. I am under the impression that LJ is for sharing, encouraging and helping each other - not antagonize or ridicule fellow members in public. You could have sent me a PM, but you chose to do it publicly. JOe, if you can't abide by the philosophy of LJ, it would be be best if you just keep it to your self in the future.


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## LittlePaw (Dec 21, 2009)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


Grandpa ; I did find a 5ph single phase motor, but it was almost a thousand bucks! So that wasn't a solution. So far, it looks like replacing it with a 3ph single maybe the most cost effective way to go. Meanwhile . . . this Grizzly is a bigger beast (haha) than I'd ever need to tangle with! So if I can't get the seller to cut his price so I can get a replacement motor without running way over the $750 asking price, I may have to look elsewhere. 
All in all, I learned a great deal about electricity - something I needed - and most of all I appreciate the time and efforts of all who jumped in and help me. You saved me from bringing home an expensive piece of equipment I can't use! Than you, thank you, thank you all.


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## doyoulikegumwood (Jun 21, 2007)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


Just a thought but you could always get away with a 3 hp motor wich grizzly sells for 300 and that would still bring you in around 500 bucks under new also think of the extras that might come with that saw that you wouldnt get with a new one.

just a thought.


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## doyoulikegumwood (Jun 21, 2007)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


and there I went again typing in the thoughts of another post right as they post them.

lmao


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


*LittlePaw
*

*except you who tried to ridicule and criticize me. I am under the impression that LJ is for sharing, encouraging and helping each other - not antagonize or ridicule fellow members in public. You could have sent me a PM, but you chose to do it publicly. JOe, if you can't abide by the philosophy of LJ, it would be be best if you just keep it to your self in the future.
*

*The key thing, IMHO is that a TS is worthless unless it can repeat accurate cuts and my Rigid if starting to lose it. *

*Man O Man do you have a hair trigger finger!*

*I was NOT trying to ridicule, criticize you, or antagonize you!*

You obviously cannot read to detect* "LOL"* here & there!

Everything you posted led me to believe that you were trying to buy a 5 HP TS so it could make good repeatable cuts! ... and you are a Carver… you say!

I WAS trying to get clarified so I* COULD help you!* Forget it… some ^%^$% cannot reason!

Well, DAMMIT,* if you want some CLEAR ANSWERS, DON'T MESS UP YOUR POSTS WITH A BUNCH OF CRAP THAT MEANS NOTHING AND HAS NO BEARING ON THE FRICKEN SUBJECT!!*

*NOW, WITH THAT, GO COOL OFF… WHEN COOL, PLEASE FLUSH IT! LOL*

Go ahead… get pissed again…

... I'm outta here… screw it…


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## Ted78 (Dec 3, 2012)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


Woaahhh. Okay Joe wasn't trying to ridicule you, he just misunderstood the question. Yes he probably should have read it closer, but clarification was in order not an attack, not that Joe's counter attack was helpful either. Also There are other sites you can express your opinions on gun rights. You don't need to hide your opinions but don't bring them up just to make a point.

Moreover you are both wrong. Phase, and certainly HP can have an effect on accuracy and repeatability. 3 phase power is 'smoother' for lack of a better word in theory anyway. I doubt this transfers into any real world difference but it could in some situations. HP can have a big effect in a lot of different ways. On my little saw if I try cutting a deep daddo the piece will vibrate back and forth as each tooth tries to grab a chunk too big for it and shakes things around instead of slicing through it, inaccurate AND dangerous. The solution of course is to cut the dado in several passes, it works fine for me, but each pass in certainly another chance to introduce error.

Sure there are things more important then horsepower when it comes to accuracy, but it is a factor.

And you can both feel free to attack and call me all the names you want it won't 'Phase'  me a bit. You might even persuade me I'm wrong.


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## LittlePaw (Dec 21, 2009)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


Thank yo for your input, Ted. While I certainly do appreciate all the other helpful suggestions, I do not care for and don't think attacks/redicule/foul language in any form is either necessary or acceptable in a site such as LJ. As far as I am concerned, I have forgotten the exchange. I prefer not to waste my time with the yelling and cussing from someone who has difficulties controlling his out breaks. . . . moving on; there r better sides in life!


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

LittlePaw said:


> *Can I use a 220v 3-phase table saw in a residential garage/shop?*
> 
> I'm a wood carver, definitely not knowledgeable in electricity. So after laughing your head off after reading this blog, would you mind telling me what I must do to use this saw on my garage/shop, PLEASE?


like I said I bought the static convertor. One of the other guys posted that he had bought a mount and was using a regular motor with a 56 frame.

http://stores.renovoparts.com/-strse-808/Unisaw-Motor-Adaptor-Bracket/Detail.bok

I don't think you said what the brand was for your saw so you might use a different mount.I went back and looked. you have a Grizzly. well, don't know about the upgrade.


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