# This thread is now closed, please visit the new one and comment!



## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*UPDATE*: The voting is over, the auction is ongoing, please visit the "WRAPUP THREAD" and leave your comments there. Thanks again for all the votes- *every single one was very much appreciated!*

*If you are new to this thread- here's the original instructions. But since the voting has ended they do not apply anymore.
*
*Background*: Charles Neil, perhaps one of the most well known professional woodworkers in America today, challenged yours truly (Stumpy Nubs) to a friendly competition. It is not intended to decide who the best woodworker is, it is merely about which of these two boxes are best. The winner can certify himself the world's greatest craftsman anytime he likes.

*How the judging occured:* LJ members just read the instructions, looked at the photos and left their decision in the comment section below. This wasn't meant to be a simple vote for which one you like best. There are three specific categories upon which each box must be judged:

*1. *Form & Concept: This is the "style" category. How much does the craftsman's design appeal to you? Is the overall form attractive and unique? *Rate this category from 1-10*.

*2. *Joinery & Construction: This is the "skill" category. Did the craftsman build the box to last? Did he create a proper balance of strength and beauty with his selection of joint types? How well were those joints executed? How difficult were the joints, and what level of skill do they reveal? *Rate this category from 1-10*.

*3.* Function & Usefulness: This is the "practicality" category. The rules stated that the purpose of the "box or small cabinet" must be to sit on an end table and hold a remote control and whatever else a person would want nearby. Did the craftsman follow those rules in his design? How useful would this box be on the average living room end table? Does the box display a significant level of thought about what a person may want to use such a box for and application of those ideas into the design? *Rate this category from 1-10*.

*EXAMPLE: *You may make any comments you like, but your vote should *also *include something like this (substitute whatever numbers you deem appropriate for the categories):

Form- 9 
Joinery-8 
Function-10

*AUCTION FOR CHARITY:* The original rules of this contest stated that Charles and I would give our boxes to each other in an effort to ensure that neither craftsman invested an excessive amount of money in an effort to win. Since then I agreed to alter those rules to allow for the boxes to be auctioned off and the proceeds to be donated to charity. Well, SOMETHING HAS COME UP. A couple of days ago, while I was working on this build my father-in-law died suddenly. So I have decided that, instead of selling my box, I am going to give it as a condolence gift. Charles will still be auctioning his off for charity, but that auction can not be held until after the judging ends and it is revealed which box he built. So judge now, and if you like, you'll be given the opportunity to bid later. Sorry for the confusion, but death in the family trumps the proposed sale of any box.

So without further adeu- here's the entries…

*ENTRY #1*

This unique box is an eclectic mixture of long standing period forms that cut across many furniture periods and geographical regions. The box is constructed using claro walnut and antique tiger maple. The wood tones and extreme figure compliment and enhance each other. The secret compartment in the bottom of the box adds to the uniqueness of the design and adds an element of surprise for the user. The box uses conventional internally reinforced miters. The box demonstrates how well known forms can be combined to create a new innovative design.
































































*ENTRY#2*
This box was inspired by the 1920's Art Deco table top radios, which were inspired by the scyscrapers and tall buildings of the day. It combines the beauty of a unique form with loads of functional features including a clock, and three drawers that will hold all the stuff that usually clutters an end table. The box is constructed using salvaged black walnut and spalted maple from a firewood pile. The box is carefully designed so that the seams of the door are impossible to see except for on the back, making it look like a simple clock or radio that doesn't open. Several different types of joinery are used including rabbet, dado, tongue and groove, miter and dovetail joints. The box demonstrates how classic forms can still be used in fine furniture today.


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## shopdog (Nov 9, 2008)

Beautiful boxes…both.
There are no losers in this contest.
It's gonna take time for my mind to percolate
I'll make my decision someday soon, 
after looking at them a couple hundred more times.


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## oldworld124 (Mar 2, 2008)

I like both entries.

Entry # 1

form 9
joinery 10
function 9

Entry # 2

form 8
joinery 7
function 7

Please note: I would have made something more in the IKEA designs range if we're talking about for the average home. Something that needs assembly.

Good luck to the both of you !!!!!!!


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

Holy pig poop !

Anybody have a coin I can flip ??


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

John- Thanks for the vote, but please read the instructions on how to judge. We will be adding up the total scores on all three catagories, so you have to follow the instructions for this to work. Thanks.


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

Two exceptional entries! Congratulations to both builders. Stumpy - sorry to hear about your loss. Your box will be going to a good cause. I'll cast my vote.

Form - Both are quite attractive. Box 1 has wonderful lines and materials that create a stunning result. Box 2 offers a classic shape that invites curiosity. I'm not sure about the material choice for the drawer fronts - but that is a matter of preference…

Joinery - Another close match up. Both appear to have solid and well crafted construction. The dovetails on box 2 put the joinery on display while Box 1 relies on perfect miters as the means to show the maker's joinery skill.

Function - When it come to holding remotes and being part of the TV room, this depends on one's needs. The capacity of Box 2 adds some practicality. Both provide an excellent alternative to the clutter of multiple remotes.

So … here are my scores

Box 1:

Form - 10
Joinery - 8
Function - 8

Box 2:

Form - 8
Joinery - 9
Function - 9

Best wishes to both entries and their builders.


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## RONFINCH (May 24, 2010)

Entry #1
Form & Concept: 10 - Beautiful
Joinery & Construction: 10 - Nice and tight
Function & Usefulness: 8 - Might hold 1 remote, but I have three

Entry #2
Form & Concept: 10 - Absolutely love the concept
Joinery & Construction: 10 - Flawless, as far as I can tell
Function & Usefulness: 7 - Too dang big for my end table or coffee table

I really like both of these entries, they both show skill in their conception and construction.


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## NANeanderthal (Jun 2, 2011)

Box 1:
Form - 9
Joinery - 9
Function - 8

Box 2:
Form - 7
Joinery - 7
Function - 8


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Box 1
Form 9
Joinery 9
Function 6

Really beautiful box, wood, execution all very nice.

Box 2
Form 7
Joinery 8
Function 9

Nice looking box, more functional, nice wood for drawer fronts.

Congrats to you both, very good entries. Stumpy, you did well no matter which box is yours.


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## woodsmithshop (Sep 10, 2008)

box 1

form 10
joinery 10
function 9

box2

form 10
joinery 10
function 7

my feelings about the function of the boxes is that both would not be as handy to use as I like, I want my remote really handy, I don't want to have to fiddle with lids and such in order to use it, (ok, I'm lazy) other than that they are both beautiful well made boxes


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## 1978 (Jul 8, 2008)

Box 1:
Form-9
Joinery-10
Function-8

Box 2:
Form-8
Joinery-6
Function-7


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## MikeZ (Jan 19, 2010)

Both are real nice and I think anyone would enjoy having these in their living room. Box 1 would be a universal fit in just about any decor while Box 2 is large and might stick out a bit in the wrong decor. Function wise, Box 2 is a bit more specific to the task being able to hold various items sure to be found in the TV room and the clock is both a practical and graceful addition. Form wise, Box 1 just blows me away with the beautiful wood contrast, grain enhancing finish and how the curves in the top accentuate the curves of the box sides.

Way to go guys.

Box 1:
Form- 10
Joinery- 9
Function- 7

Box 2:
Form- 8 
Joinery-7
Function-8


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## semi75 (Jun 17, 2010)

Wow #1 is a beautiful, I am impressed! 
Form- 10
Joinery-9 
Function-10

#2- Sorry, I can see how it would be useful but I have never been a fan of art deco on any level. Still you can tell a lot of work went into it.
Form- 4 
Joinery-7
Function-8


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## JJohnston (May 22, 2009)

Box 1:
Form - 6
Joinery & Construction - 10
Function - 5

Box 2:
Form - 10 - Reminds me of the movie "Brazil", or a Tex Avery cartoon
Joinery & Construction - 8
Function - 10


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## shopsmithpoppi (Jun 2, 2011)

Entry #1

Form- 9
Joinery-8
Function-8

Entry #2

Form- 8
Joinery-8
Function-8

I really like both of these boxes. I think they are both very well thought out and constructed. I did how ever feel they both had different weak points.

The First Entry was elegant and yet simple at the same time. When I say simple I am not referring to easy of construction or craftsmanship. I mean it has a simple concept to its functionality which gives it its beauty and eye appeal at the same time. I really loved the secret compartment and the way its held in place again holds to the simple but appealing element of this project. I thought it was over very well done but lacked in total functionality.

The Second Entry hit me with a flood of nostalgia and a feeling an old life that has long been past by. I loved it but my first impression is where is the spalted maple? Then I was flooded again when the lid was open with the spalted maple. I love spalted woods epically maple but it seemed out of place and didn't fit. If perhaps there had been some accent of the maple on the exterior then I would have thought it belonged. Which brought to mind what type of wood is the clock mounted in?

I however did love the fact that the box was well thought out and highly fictional able to hold many items you would find on an end table. But at the same time it seem to be too large not gaudy just over sized for an end table in my opinion.

Over all I would love to have either of them in my home. But I really liked the simple beauty of the first entry the best.


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## ColdAudio (Aug 9, 2011)

Box 1:
Form - 6
Joinery - 8
Function - 5

Box 2:
Form - 9
Joinery - 8
Function - 8


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## YanktonSD (Jun 21, 2011)

Entry # 1

form 9
joinery 10
function 7

Entry # 2

form 8
joinery 7
function 9

I like the concepts behind both boxes. Entry #1 is much better built and very unique. I really like the functionality of entry #2 if it had a a differnet finish/wood contrast I may have ranked it higher.


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## RBWoodworker (Mar 22, 2009)

Entry #1

Form 10
Joinery 10
Function 10

Entry #2

Form 6
Joinery 5
Function 7


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## Gregn (Mar 26, 2010)

Gentlemen I suspect that making the boxes was easier than judging them. Both boxes are exceptional in all categories and deserve 10's in Form, Joinery and Function. Each has its own set of challenges in their construction. So since this is not the type of vote you are looking for, I will vote as if I were to bid on these boxes.

*BOX 1:*
Form - 10
Joinery - 10
Function - 9

*BOX 2:*
Form - 10
Joinery - 10
Function - 10

The only reason Box 2 received a 10 in function is due to my partiality for drawers and would be the one I would bid on. As I stated both boxes are exceptional but there can only be one winner.

Great work to both you Stumpy and Charles. Your both winners in my opinion.


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

just my initial reaction here, i praise both of you for doing this cool contest and eventual charity donation…stumpy im really sorry for your loss , and hope your all doing as well as you can be under the circumstance, your in my prayers, and most of all i wish your wife the peace of our father in heaven…losing her dad is a very hard thing…peace to you both.

box # 1
form - 10 
joinery 10
function 10

box#2
form 9
joinery 9
function 10


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

Box 1:
Form - 10. Not really my cup of tea, but oh, so elegant
Joinery - 10
Function - 5. I'd prefer not to have to lift off a lid…

Box 2:
Form - 6. Reminds me of something in futurama, but not as much fun.
Joinery - 8
Function - 6 would have prefered doors


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## Jeff_F (Oct 8, 2009)

Box 1:
Form - 10
Joinery - 10
Function - 10

Box #1 is very elegant yet not overstated. It would look very nice sitting on most any type of end table, coffee table, and in any type of room. Although straight forward miters are used in construction, the skill level is shown from their integration across the curved surfaces of the body and their flow into both the top and bottom with bracket feet. The selection of wood is outstanding. Although it only has the single storage area (not including the clever secret compartment) the rules state it needs to hold a remote control so it is hard to argue against functionality.

Box 2:
Form - 7
Joinery - 6
Function - 6

Box #2 is interesting from a design concept point of view but it may be overkill for something to sit on an end table and hold a remote control, per the rules. Something that large may look funny sitting on a table next to a sofa. My bigger concern is the integration of the different woods in the box. The walnut has a small corner of sap wood showing which should have been colored or removed because it is distracting. Also, I would have liked to see some of the spalted maple on the outside of the box…maybe the center posts behind the clock. Other than the dovetails, the construction is rather simplistic. Functionally, it works because of the three drawers.


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## JGM0658 (Aug 16, 2011)

Box 2

form 9
Joinery 8
function 9

box 1

form 7
joinery 10
function 6

I like that in box 2 the lid is not removable, for it is a PITA lidded boxes. Box 1 is nice, but you see them often box 2 is more original IMO. Box 2 has better organization than one, box 1 is only a square hole.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Jeff f 
Good point about the coffee table thing I'd forgotten that. That does make a difference in the function category.
All the scoring of points feels like dancing with the stars )


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## bhog (Jan 13, 2011)

Entry #1

form-10
joinery-9
function-7

Entry # 2

form - 9
joinery-10
function-10


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## REK (Aug 30, 2009)

Both works are first rate. Thanks for the heads up Jim, I almost forgot about this contest.

Box 1

Form 7 
Joinery 10 
Function 4

Box 2

form 7
joinery 9
Function 10

Box 1 fit and finish was of a higher quality and very refined. But in day to day use it seemed more fitting
as a jewelry box or as a display box for the shelf. The style and function are lost on me even though it
has the best finish.

Box 2 came across much less refined, but it's unique form, and functionality came across well for a media
center type of environment. The art deco style is also reminiscent of the old 1930's style radio, which also
speak well for a media inspired box.


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## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

Box # 1

form 10
joinery 8
function 8

Box 1: Nicely designed. Simple, elegant, well made, well finished. I'd have it. I'd bid on it.

Box # 2

form 6
joinery 7
function 6

I thought it was a Pez for firewood for a minute. Somewhat clever design. Well made. Wood and finish looks ordinary and stark. No pop except the drawer fronts.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

So far
#1-- 16 votes

#2--- 6 votes

we still have a lot of time to see what happens


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## 280305 (Sep 28, 2008)

Thank you to both of you for your effort and time. This contest is a great idea.

*Box # 1*

form: 9
joinery: 10
function: 5

*Box # 2*

form: 5
joinery: 7
function: 8


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

#1
Form - 10
Joinery - 8
Function - 9

#2
Form - 9
Joinery - 9
Function - 7

I love boxes. 
#1 absolutely beautiful. The simplicity of merely opening the lid to retrieve your what not, swayed my vote for function.
Number 2 is probably the more difficult box to make. The joinery superb. It is a bit large and to open it and then open a drawer seems a bit much for my toss it on a table approach to remotes etc.
Gentlemen, two fine examples of craftsmanship. 
This has been fun. I would like to see more of this friendly competition.


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## Brit (Aug 14, 2010)

Box 1

Form 8
Joinery 10
Function 6

Box 2

Form 5
Joinery 6
Function 8


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## willd (Mar 9, 2011)

Box #1 Form- 10 Joinery- 10 function- 8  Box #2 Form- 8 Joinery- 9 Function- 10 "May the best man win"


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*Box #1*
Form- 10 Not my Style but *Beautiful for The Style.*
Joinery- 10 
Function-10

*Box #2*
Form- 8 Did not Turn me ON.
Joinery- 8 
Function- 9


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## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

21 to 6


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## amagineer (Apr 16, 2011)

Box 1
Form 9
Joinery 9
Function 7

I like Box 1, it has form and character

Box 2
Form 7
Joinery 8
Function 9

I like Box 2, it is retro looking and functionality


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## Gerry1 (Jul 12, 2009)

Thank you both for reminding us what this site is all about: Woodworkers of all levels coming together for a common purpose, and some good fun!

My Votes:

Box # 1

form: 9
joinery: 10
function: 7

Box # 2

form: 5
joinery: 6
function: 8


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## Bigrock (Apr 16, 2010)

I was glad to see both finish the challenge.

Box No. 1
Form 9
Joinery 10
Function 9
The secret compartment makes this one stand out.

Box No. 2
Form 7
Joinery 5
Function 6
To get to the drawers you have the top not pull out the drawer. It also looks like the piece is not finished. I did like the little clock.


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## GaryK (Jun 25, 2007)

Very interesting!

Box # 1

form: 9
joinery: 9
function: 7

Box # 2

form: 4
joinery: 9
function: 4


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

The count

number 1 … 25 votes number 2… 6 votes


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## skunkeye (Nov 5, 2011)

Box #1
form:10
joinery:10
fxn:10

Box #2
form:7
joinery:5
fxn:4


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*Actually, Jim- it's not that simple*. all of the scores need to be added up for each of the boxes in each of the three judging categories. That was the point of having the three criteria for judging. One box may lead in form, another in function or joinery. Once the judging ends, all will be added up and presented as three numbers for each box, and the winner will be announced based on those totals.

Yes, you can get a pretty good idea of which entry is ahead at the moment by counting it like you are, but the actual judging will reveal not only the winner, but also why it won.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Fiverse styles. Great comments. Will think some on it. Sorry for your loss.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Diverse


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Stumpy
Seems rather involved, I'll just keep count on my own if you prefer .


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## Trapshter (Nov 5, 2011)

Box 1 
Form -10
Joinery-10
Function-10

Box 2
Form -8
Jointery - 7
Function -7

Nice job guys . Both are very nice .you both should be proud of your work . I had a few things about box 2 that did not look quite right . 1st would be the finish . Not even close to box 1 this is an important part of any piece . I just wonder why this was not included in the voting process. Next it looks like I can see glue that was not removed from the front along the pilasters. Maybe not it's hard to see from the pics . Again nice job 
Jm


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## rrdesigns (Sep 4, 2009)

Box #1
form: 10
joinery: 10
function: 7

Box#1 has an elegant look and exquisite finish. I especially like the classic lines on the interior of the lid. Functionality is limited by the size of the interior. Most coffee tables these days are littered with multiple remotes and it would be nice to be able to hide all of them.

Box # 2
form: 6
joinery: 6
function: 7

Box # 2 looks a bit tall for a coffee table and the clock is undersized in relation to the front. The finish is too dull and the sapwood and the knots and color in the base are distracting. I would have liked to see a darker color in the spires in the front behind the clock and a different wood for the drawer fronts (or perhaps less of the spalted maple by incorporating a bordered drawer front). It is hard to tell from a photo but there appear to be gaps in some of the joints. Functionally, I like the way you tried to incorporate all of the clutter although lifting the large front looks a bit cumbersome.

Overall I thank both of you for doing this. It was a lot of fun to watch the excitement build to the grand finale. Kudos to both of you for a great job!


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## Lim (Oct 28, 2011)

No mountain is too high or road is too long with a friend at your side.
I couldn't agree more!


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## TopamaxSurvivor (May 2, 2008)

Almost too close to call ;-((

Box #1form: 10
joinery: 10
function: 9

Box # 2form: 8
joinery: 10
function: 9


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*A1 JIM- *It's a bit complicated, but it will really be nice to see a more detailed set of reasons ofr which box wins. However, your count (though I think you missed one entry for box #2) works for simply determining the overall leader.

*Woodinheaven*- I was afraid that the popularity of Charles would sway the voting like you suggest. But what if they are wrong about who made which box? Besides, Charles told those in his family and shop not to vote, and I trust him. And I am not allowing anyone with inside knowledge to vote in my behalf either. Anyone else who wants to vote based on whatever reasoning they like can take a chance that they are picking the right box and vote away!

*Everyone*- The comments you are posting along with your ratings are great! Charles and I love to hear what everyone is thinking, so keep 'em coming!


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Stumpy
It seem to upset one of the new members that I was posting totals so I'll just keep track myself . Have fun


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Everyone- After you vote, why no head over to Charles Neil's website and check out his videos. I've been watching them all evening!


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## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

Man this is Awesome! Both boxes are beeeuuuteeful! Sorry stumps, I was expecting a clear difference in the two pieces, and this is definitely going to require more thought! 
Good show, too - lots of braggadocio and suspense all through the week, topped off with two elegant pieces… good stuff.


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## SeaWitch (Nov 5, 2011)

Great idea!

#1
form: 10
joinery: 10
function: 10
#2
form: 4
joinery: 7
function: 5


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

Entry # 1

form 10
joinery 10
function 6

Entry # 2

form 9
joinery 7
function 9

Honestly, guys, I think this is a great thing you are doing, on many levels!


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## Letorix (Jul 19, 2011)

Box #1
Form-9
Joinery-9 
Function-7

Would go well any where in the house.

Box #2
Form-8
Joinery-9 
Function-6

Not sure where I'd put in the house, cool nick nack item…just not sure where I'd put it.

My hats off to Charles taking on this challenge, quite frankly amazed he took it.

Nice work guys, interesting outcome…can't wait to see if our hunches are right


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Maybe we should wonder about guys that have been here 15 days too. LOL


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## RWR (Jul 16, 2008)

Entry No. 1

form 10
joinery 10
function 10

Entry # 2

form 8
joinery 7
function 7

Both nice boxes, but No. 1 wins hands down in my opinion.


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## Dark_Lightning (Nov 20, 2009)

No kidding, on that one, Jim.

woodinheaven, do you know which one was made by who?

Come on, people, this is a good thing happening at LJs, don't be a bunch of hissies.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*Woodinheaven*- Actually, you haven't voted, have you? Newbies are welcome on the honor system. If this is that important to them that they will cheat, they need to get some fresh air and reevaluate their lives… But unless there's evidence otherwise (which there isn't) I say we trust them.

I do know which one was made by who- and let me tell you, speculation has a way of making a person look silly when he turns out to be wrong and seldom has any value even if he turns out to be right. I would be proud to have made either one…


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## yrob (May 26, 2008)

Excellent entries ! Both boxes are beautiful.

Box 1:

Form and Concept: 8 its a beautiful box , reminiscent of a bombe chest. Only 8 because its something that is not completely unexpected.
Joinery: 10 . Execution is flawless, finish is georgous.

Function: 9 I am sure it can hold a remote and a bottle of beer. Thats good.

Box 2: Form and concept : 10 . very original concept which is why I gave it a high mark.

Joinery: 9 . Its nearly perfect, although I think I saw a minor flaw or two in the pictures. (near the hinges and one of the dadoed pins in a drawer).

Function: 10 It can hold all of my remotes and look good doing it.

Congratulations to both of you.


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## sandhill (Aug 28, 2007)

Box #1
form: 9
joinery: 8
function: 8

Box # 2
form: 5
joinery: 8
function: 8


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*woodinheaven:*

I don't see any reason why you can't vote…

Look at the boxes… and Vote the way you feel about them…

It's that Simple… you don't have to know anyone!

I'm sure glad you're having fun! LOL


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

I always love to look at everyones boxes so here it goes

Box 1:
Form - 10
Joinery - 7
Function - 8

Box 2:
Form - 8
Joinery - 9
Function - 10

I wish the best for both guys. Outstanding work on both projects
Arlin


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Box 1
Both entries are very nice but they are diverse and difficult to judge.
Form 9
Joinery 10
Function 6

Box 2

Form 7
Joinery 8
Function 9


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## Scribner (Nov 4, 2011)

*Box 1*

Form & Concept: 10
Joinery & Construction: 10  
Function & Usefulness: 9

Box one has a noticeably nicer finish than box two. The design almost seems to have a little Asian influence to it. The contrasting woods work well together. I really like the lid. The curved rails and stiles on the lid make it more interesting to my eye. Nice that the handle attaches to the lid without the use of a couple of ugly screws coming through from the underside. Good wood grain orientation throughout.

The hidden compartment seems too small to be practical. To me, it's just something that is fun to point out when you show the box to somebody who hasn't seen it before.

*Box 2*

Form & Concept: 8 
Joinery & Construction: 8 
Function & Usefulness: 2

Box two has a nice art deco feel to it. However, the clock face seems too small in relation to the overall size of the piece. I think the clock should be quite a bit larger. I also don't care for the contrasting wood around the clock face itself. The spalted wood drawer-fronts are nice. I think that the same spalted wood around the clock face might have worked better than whatever kind of wood was used.

My biggest concern is in the "function & usefulness" department. When I ask myself "How useful would this box be on the average living room end table?" I think it would not be very useful because of that lid. The lid reminds me of a welder's mask, because it is going to fall down over the face of the piece as soon as you take your hand off of it. If you flip the lid all the way up, it could make the whole thing fall over backwards. Therefore, using the box would always be a two-handed operation; one hand to lift the lid (and keep it up), the other hand to pull out one of the three drawers. The drawers do not have pulls or handles that I can see, so pulling out the two lower drawers might be tricky. Next, you put the drawer down on the coffee table. Then you set the lid back down so it doesn't slam. Then you get whatever it was you were looking for out of the drawer. Then you lift the lid back up and use your other hand to wiggle the drawer back in place. Then you set the lid back down again. Doing this would get old in a hurry for me.


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## bunkie (Oct 13, 2009)

Very, very nice stuff.

*Box #1*:

form: 8
joinery: 10
function: 7

Box # 2

form: 9
joinery: 7
function: 9

I love the sense of surprise of both boxes. Box #2, to me has more whimsey and I love the antique radio design motif. I would like to have seen some more contrast in wood choice on the external part of box #2, although I do understand that the more monotone look is in keeping with the radios that inspired it.

The style of box #1 is less to my taste, but its construction, choice of woods and finish are top notch.

Congratulations to both of you!


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I think it's GREAT that several people have actually joined Lumber Jocks just to be part of this! No matter which box they vote for, LJ management has to be pleased to see such effective publicity at work in their behalf. And the current members can't help but be glad to see new guys (or gals) joining for the future!


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

This is a very difficult judging, as I like them both very much. I'd like to score them both 30.

Entry #1
Form/Concept: 9; I like anything with a plinth; the proportions are attractive; very stylish
Joinery/Construction: 8; there are some difficult joints to execute in here, deceivingly difficult
Functionality/Usefulness: 9; a box is about the ultimate in functionality, especially if it fits a beer

Entry #2
Form/Concept: 7; personally, not a fan of the period or applique but a very handsome piece
Joinery/Construction: 8; symmetrical and handsome drawers; clever tilt-top design
Functionality/Usefulness: 8; big footprint but a ton of storage; very clever design overall

So, it's tight but I think I prefer entry one. This is SOOOOOO biased because the style of the piece appeals to me.

Good luck, guys!


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## racerglen (Oct 15, 2010)

Wowsers !
Great work from both sides ..
box 1
form 10
joinery 9
function 10

box 2
form 10
joinery 9
function 9


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## snowbird (Oct 31, 2008)

Box #1 (tigermaple just does it for me)
Form: 10
Jointery: 10
Function: 10

Box #2 (out standing but close only counts in hand grenades and horse shoes) 
Form: 9
Jointery: 9
Function: 9


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## DamnYankee (May 21, 2011)

*Entry-1*
*Form-10* - Wow. Very beautiful box.

*Joinery-9* - While a mitered corner is "simple" in design, I know very well that a perfectly mitered corner is always so easy to accomplish. While in many homes the internally supported miters would probably be strong enough for such a purpose they might not be quite strong enough in a house such as mine with kids running around. In both cases I think the craftsman did a outstanding job of balancing strength with form.

*Function-5* - Its a box with a lid. A beautiful box but still a box. As such any box would meet the functionality desired from the project. Given the nature of the contest I would have expected something more "purpose built".

*Entry-2*
*Form-8* - I like the shape/form, however, I'm not as keen on the finish as on box-1. I also think some contrasting wood would have really helped the art-deco pop. Not necessarily the contrast of say walnut and maple but maybe at least between say walnut and cherry (not say those wood specifically just the level of contrast).

*Joinery-9* - Stronger than the miter, but I have found dados and dovetails easier to execute than a perfect miter. In both cases I think the craftsman did a outstanding job of balancing strength with form.

*Function-8* - I think Box-2 does a better job of meeting the intended function beyond being "just a box", however, I agree that all the flipping and drawers detract from usability.


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

Box 1
Form: 9
Joinery: 9
Function:6

Box 2
Form 10
Joinery: 7
Function: 5


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## GregD (Oct 24, 2009)

*Box #1*

Form: 10
Joinery: 10
Function: 8

*Box #2*

Form: 7
Joinery: 10
Function: 10

Box #2 is really cool, but box #1 is eye candy.


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## jhawkdoc (Nov 6, 2011)

Box 1

form: 10
joinery:10
function: 9

Box 2

form: 6
joinery: 6
function: 7


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Looking at the merits of the pieces vs, what I like and prefer. Would like to add a critiqe from a previous LJ blog as well. How something is photographed will also affect the outcome. There is also the issue of finish which is also a factor that will bias judging.

Entry #1
Form/Concept: 9; Form here does follow style and extremely well executed. Been following this since early on. I was pretty sure the function of the piece was suppose to be to hold extra equipment for the tv?
Joinery/Construction: 10; Curved joinery is very difficult to execute. Would have given this piece a higher number
Functionality/Usefulness: 8; If it is for holding all of my extra remotes? but as a jewelry box it is above the numbers allowed.

Entry #2
Form/Concept: 7; The form here does follow stated perameters, although it is more like a building that a piece of furniture from the period. Looks like a first try at it not elegant. Other critiqes are descriptive here.. I am a fan of the period.

Joinery/Construction: 8; This relates to the period and delicacy of the piece. nice color choices in looking for construction of pieces, yet mostly it feels like southwestern in how it is joined? Like the drawers but not within this design. Functionality/Usefulness: 8; big footprint but a ton of storage; very clever design overall

Funtionality and usefulness; 8 Function of the drawers per the perameters is above a 10, but it is complicated by problems in use? which is a stated goal. It would always be open? Or Eventually frustrating to the user?

It is a piece that has potential and evolution. Give it some more thought. It is the beginning of something more?

Kudos to both men for your efforts and the excitment it brings to LJ's

Thanks


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## Porchfish (Jun 20, 2011)

A very difficult choice indeed. Holyhorse********************hannah do we really have to do this ? I will, because someone requested nicely .

#1 10 , 10, 8 (almost unfair use of curly maple)

#2 10 , 10 , 9 (love me some art deco)


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## Tomoose (Mar 1, 2009)

Box1:
Form 9
Joinery 9
Function 8

Box 2:
Form 8
Joinery 9
Function 8

For holding a remote, I prefer an open-top box so I can just grab it. Each of these two boxes are fine examples of woodworking skill and design. Congratulations to whoever the eventual winner is.


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## Belg1960 (Jan 3, 2010)

Box #1 Has nice elegant lines and will fit perfectly on a small table. Finish is superior. Use of different woods blend together really well.
form: 10
joinery: 10
function: 10

Box # 2 Seems too large for the application. Finish needs work. It looks to me like the applied molding with the clock in it is slightly off, but that could just be the angle of the pic. It also looks like there was a little glue left on the right side where the stain did not get same application.
form: 6
joinery: 4
function: 4


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## Bluepine38 (Dec 14, 2009)

#1 Form 9 personal opinion
Joinery 9 photo of bottom seems to show gaps in inside corners
Function 10
#2 Form 10
Joinery 9 photo appears to show chip above clock in last picture
Form 10


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## 489tad (Feb 26, 2010)

Thank you both for putting together a great contest!
Box 1
Form 8
Joinery 9
Function 8

Box 2
Form 9
Joinery 8
Function 9


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## HenryH (Jan 29, 2009)

Judging these boxes is like Judging two beautiful women. Both are winners. it is just a matter of which one does it for you.
#1 works for me but you both have added a little beauty to the world.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*IMPORTANT*: Charles has expressed to me that he feels at least a couple of the votes above were made by people who he asked not to vote because of a conflict of interest. Because it is important to not have even the slightest sign on impropriety, those votes (which Charles himself will point out to me at the end of this process) will not be included in the final total.

If *ANYONE *was asked not to vote by Charles, please honor his request because it is important to him. You would expect no less from an honest, classy guy like Charles, so please do not put him in a position he finds uncomfortable.

*HOWEVER*- I wish to at least hear from EVERYONE, even those who are adamant supporters of Charles and think little of me for this contest. So please PM your vote and comments to me. It wont count towards the final results, but I still want to hear your honest critique of both boxes.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*Henry*- please rate them according to the three categories with a score of 1-10 each. That is the only way for your vote to be counted. Thanks!


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Although I was objective in my voting based on the contest rules, my preferences and I took time to deliberate, I have been a long time supporter and admirer of Mr. Neil, You may remove me from the voting if you so desire. Thankyou


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*No, Doc*. You are not disqualified for being a supporter of Charles. If we were going to do that we'd have to remove everyone, even myself!

There are a handful of people who have been specifically asked by Charles not to vote, mostly because he saw a clear conflict of interest. Those people know who they are and they have mostly honored his request, with some exceptions (woodinheaven pointed this out yesterday, and Charles agreed).

I have been VERY reluctant to disqualify ANYONE, or to make even this small announcement about it. But Charles personally asked for this in order to be entirely certain that the process is fair in even the smallest appearance.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

thanks Doc, this has to be with the utmost integrity, something these days has to not be tainted, and win lose or draw, it has to be arrow straight, other wise what's the point, but there are no losers, we all win from a little competition, it makes us stretch our skills, now vote as you see fit, and carry on, good luck Stumpy,, ya done good !


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Hey, I was one of the people who suggested Charles' followers support him? Without any intended offense to Stumpy.

Re; going by the established rules I really believe that both pieces be submitted for auction , even if I can't afford one of them. LOL

Know Charles is really making an effort to keep emotional bias out of the fun.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

No offense taken. If a Charles supporter wants to vote for Charles, it has to be assumed that they would think the best of the two boxes was made by him, and they would vote for that one.

That's exactly what we want anyway- for people to decide which box is the best and vote for that one! But they also have to tell us WHY they voted for the one they did- which is the reason for the 3 categories of judging and no names attached to the boxes.

*It's not foolproof, but I devised this judging system with protections against voter sabotage. There will be no hanging chads here! *

...see, there's a method to this complicated judging system… these wheels are always turning…


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## Rob200 (Sep 21, 2009)

box 1 is the one I vote for


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## jeepturner (Oct 3, 2010)

I will start off my judging by giving each entry a 10 and then I will reduce one point if there is something that I don't like. I do like both boxes, but the whole point is I have to make a choice.

Box 1:
Form 9
I don't like the way the base and the lower section of the box look. It seems as if they are out of proportion.
Joinery, 10
It's hard to judge from the pictures. would be nice to see more close up photos.
Function, 10
I took a point away from this box because I have more than one remote, but I had to give it back because I could envision buying one of those fancy universal remotes and I could hide the instructions in the under compartment in case I needed to change to the other football game or something.

Box 2:
Form, 8
I like the art deco style, but my in table would have to be huge to accommodate this, and if it was placed on the coffee table where there is room, it may block conversation or the view of the TV. 
I looks too heavy. Buildings in this style have a stability to them, but it makes the box look heavy.
Joinery, 10
Again it's hard for me to judge based on the pictures. The pictures of the first box look more professional than the second, so I will just give both a ten.
Function, 8
I like that this box has more than one compartment, but none of the drawers look big enough for a remote. Yes I know that's not the only thing someone would want storage for.
I don't like that the box would have to be spaced away from a wall to open it.

Thanks for allowing me to be a judge on your boxes. I respect that you would both put your skills before the members of this site to be judged. You both have more more skill and confidence in those skills than I have in mine. 
Thanks for sharing both of the boxes with us.


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## mikema (Apr 27, 2011)

Entry 1
Form - 9
Joinery - 9
Function - 10 - Secret panel clinched it

Entry 2
Form - 7
Joinery - 8 
Function - 8

Great work on both projects, and both of you have proven to be a class act!


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## Transition (Jun 9, 2011)

Both boxes are absolutely beautiful and well executed!
This it tough! But I love the idea of challenging each other! I'll be interested to see if my guess is correct.

Box 1:
form: 10
joinery: 7
function: 5

Box 2:
form: 7
joinery: 8
function: 9

All opinions are humbly proffered -

1. Form & Concept:

Box1 - As a "box", I think this is the more appealing - nice, simple, timeless. I also like the contrasting woods, and although I don't know what "antique" tiger maple is, it sure is pretty. The finish is also very nice. I could see this in any living room. The hidden compartment is superfluous, and takes up volume in the box.

Box2 -The Art Deco design of is wonderful, although it makes it more of a period piece. I love the spalted drawer faces (would like to see some of that spalting in the clock frame). The apparent size is domineering, which could be good or bad. I would not put this on an end table (next to a couch or chair), but rather on a seperate table. Would either like to see more or no sapwood. The hinged lid detracts from the overall aesthetic.

2. Joinery & Construction:

Box1: Hard to see the joinery, but that's not necessarily bad! It takes skill to make well hidden joints.

Box2: There seems to be quite a bit of complexity to the joinery, and it appears to be well executed. I like the high visibility of the dovetails. Again, I would like to see an alternative to the hinges.

3. Function & Usefulness:

Box1: I would use this box. I is think it is well suited for the purpose.

Box2: This box has the slight edge for me. It has the promise of greater functionality. The spacious lid allows plenty of room for taller items, although I can see things getting caught (dangling wires, errant tissues, etc). The clock is a nice addition to the functionality. Although it could sit on an end table (and therefore meets the criterion), I don't have a problem getting off the couch to retrieve an item if it were located elsewhere. And both my wife and son preferred this box.

I tend to be a bit of a stickler when it come to rules, so I'd be making another box for the condolence gift. However, my condolences for your loss.


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## Andy123 (Aug 17, 2011)

Entry 1:
Form- 9
Joinery-7
Function-8

Entry 2:
Form- 7
Joinery-8
Function-10


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

Very difficult choices indeed. If I had to choose on looks alone , it would be entry #1 , but to fit the requirements of the contest , #2 seems to follow the rules more , even though it might be cumbersome to use and make me not put the remotes , etc., away after use , defeating its purpose in life. 
I also agree that Finish should have been a separate category…and overall dimensions of the finished projects,would have been nice. 
I guess if I had company over ,#2 would win the "coolness" factor for a hiding place for all of my "necessities", as opposed to just removing a lid and tossing the stuff inside. I suppose that #1 could have dividers installed , but aren't pictured here. Although the clock {#2} is a nice feature, I think it is out of scale and the clock color and "surround' do nothing for the piece itself. 
At first , I thought that the "sides" on the "building" were compartments for several remotes to slide down into. The photos of #2 could have been better , and might sway some folks in the other direction. 
Kudos to both of you for your excellent workmanship !! It's amazing how differently the both of your projects came out to serve the same purpose : )
Project #1
Form- 10 …Beautiful choice of materials , finishing ,shaping ,easy on the eyes : )
Joinery-9 …Appears to be perfect from the photos {but with no real close-ups , I can't give a 10} I'm sure the curves aren't an easy thing to accomplish. : )
Function-5 …Easy to use , but in the end , it is just an unorganized box. Needs dividers. Sorry JMHO
Project #2
Form- 7 …Mediocre materials {kind of clash with each other rather than working together}, lacks finish , couldn't decide if Art Deco or possibly SouthWest was what you were shooting for.
Joinery-8 …Appears to be visible glue in a few spots , but if not , please let us know. 
Expected close-ups of dovetails , but must not be good enough to focus camera on for extra points perhaps.(?)
Function-9 …Although more to the projects purpose , the flip top is kind of cumbersome in appearance and might prevent one from having anything else with it on the end table.I have to give you credit on the idea though : )
*Best wishes to both of you !!*


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## InsideBevel (Aug 2, 2010)

Box # 1, very beautiful box…..

form: 10
joinery: 10
function: 8

Box # 2, just don't like art deco…..

form: 4
joinery: 8
function: 7


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*Since a couple of people have mentioned it, I will address the subject of the rules regarding the sale of the boxes:*

If we want to be a "stickler" about the rules, we would have to give the boxes to each other. That is what the rules said. Later, we mutually agreed to sell the boxes instead. THIS was a deviation from the rules, but it was fine with everyone, myself included. When, after circumstances changed, I withdrew my box from the auction, I was not breaking the rules. I am giving it away, just like was originally intended. The only difference is I am giving it as a condolence gift instead of giving it to Charles.

My personal feeling is that it will do a great more good that way than it would to sell it and give a meager few bucks to charity. I still support the charity, and I *regularly *volunteer my time and money to worthwhile causes.

Yes, I could make another one, but this box took a very long time to make and since the body is getting cold, I have little time to do it. Plus, the recipient likes THIS box, and I am not going to refuse her under these circumstances. *Charles is still auctioning his box off*, and while that is not what the rules said, I am *totally *in favor of it.

Sorry, but my *giving the box away is not breaking the rules*, and even if it were, I was the one appointed to make the rules, and I can change them as long as it doesn't affect the judging, which this should not, and as long as Charles allows it, which he did. The only question is, which box is being given away, and which one is being sold for charity?


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## devann (Jan 11, 2011)

*Box # 1*

form: 9

joinery: 9

function: 6

*Box # 2*

form: 6

joinery: 8

fucntion: 9

Good Luck!


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

*Box #1*

form: 10 simple, elegant, light, beautiful

joinery: 10 joinery is simple but perfectly executed, specifically with an eye to grain aesthetics

Function: 10 again simplicity, it does exactly what it needs to

*Box #2 *

form: 6 for me, a little too busy, too heavy, too big

joinery: 8 looks good but not as good

function: 4 too busy, trying to do too much, awkward to access

I think #1 has hit a home run. *single word: elegant*

#2 may be better than the numbers I gave it. *single word: busy*


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## glebecraft (Mar 2, 2011)

Very difficult to choose as both boxes are superb,

Box #1 
Form; 10
Joinery; 10
Function 10

Box #2
Form; 9
Joinery; 10
Function 10

Good luck


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## YanktonSD (Jun 21, 2011)

BTW I think this competition is great!! I wish we had more of this on lumberjocks!


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## oksawdust (Jan 10, 2011)

Box#1
Form: 10
Joinery: 10
Function: 7
Beautiful, but wouldn't hold much.
Box#2
Form: 8
Joinery: 9
Function:9
Excellent originality, need a little extra room to open lid.


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## YanktonSD (Jun 21, 2011)

When does the Judging end?


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## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

The last picture of number 1 was extremely important to me. With a cold beer and a bag of pretzels, it shows to me the scale of the box and the fact that it would hold my three remotes AND my Logitech diNovo wireless keyboard (6" x 3.5" x 1") at the end of the viewing day.










What prompted this outburst ? ;=)

The comment "wouldn't hold much". I think it will.


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## tierraverde (Dec 1, 2009)

Box#1
Form: 10
Joinery: 10
Function: 7
Artistry, but not functional for a T.V. table
Box#2
Form: 7
Joinery: 7
Function:10
Great thought of Art Deco, but not hard to copy. Functional for the stated purpose.

No way could I reproduce Box 1 or it's finish.
Box 2, I believe I might come close to a reproduction.


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## SnowyRiver (Nov 14, 2008)

Great work from both of you!

*Box 1*

Form - 9
Joinery - 9
Function - 10

*Box 2*

Form - 7
Joinery - 7
Function - 8


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## pmac (Oct 12, 2010)

*box 1*

form:10

joinery:10

function:9

*box 2*

form: 8

joinery: 9

function: 9


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## bglenden (Apr 18, 2011)

Box #1

Form: 10
Joinery:10
Function:7

Box #2

Form: 6
Joinery: 8
Function: 8


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## Maggiepic (Aug 26, 2010)

Entry # 1

form 10
joinery 10
function 9

Entry # 2

form 8
joinery 7
function 7


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## TechRedneck (Jul 30, 2010)

Entry # 1

Form 10
Joinery 9
Function 8

Entry # 2

Form 8
Joinery 7
Function 7

Charles and Stumpy.. This has been interesting and entertaining. It reminds me of why I keep coming back to LJ's every evening ( when I should be in the shop! )


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## Kentuk55 (Sep 21, 2010)

Both are very nicely done in all aspects. Here is my two cents:
form: 9
joinery: 10 
function: 7
form: 9
joinery: 8
function: 10

I don't really feel right judging anyone, being a "rookie" and all. Funtionality of the 2nd box definately beat the 1st box in my eyes, BUT, at the same time, if there were a "Finish" catagory, no. 1 would have it. Both designs have a definate "uniqueness" Good Luck to you both. Sorry to hear about your Father-in-Law. You both have some really gr8 skills, and craftsmanship.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I have to say that I am disappointed in Charles' project. I was told he would be making it out of grits…


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

... are you tipping the hand?


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I didn't say WHICH project was his, just repeating a joke he made at the beginning of this process… I also recall him promising to use rusty nails, of which I see none!


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

After looking at the last picture of entry #1 *a little closer,*
that would be a nice box for assorted nuts, low calorie chips, etc.
I didn't realize it was *THAT big!*


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## TimC (Sep 17, 2009)

Box #1

form-9
joinery-7
function-9

Box #2

form-8
joinery-9
function-7


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*Hey Chuck*- what's on tap for the next "Tuesday Tool Time"?


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## skunkeye (Nov 5, 2011)

woodinheaven,

I found out about this contest from the website list on the right hand side of the half inch shy (Paul-Marcel) website.

I joined to vote, but have no allegiance to either side.

Box 1 looks exquisite.

Box 2 looks like a talented high school senior made it for his mom. Box 2 is lucky there isn't a finish category in the competition, because it wouldn't even be close. I would buy Box 1, I would re-gift box 2 if given it. Sorry if the truth hurts, and thanks for the warm welcome.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Hey Skunk, you may not like what woodinheaven said to you, but why take it out on the contest entries? I mean, that was a little overboard, don't you think- no matter who made the boxes…


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*skunkeye:*

*Welcome Aboard!*

Hope you won't be a stranger…


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*I'd like to refer everyone to the post I made earlier today* about some votes being disqualified. Anyone who signed up to LJs just to sway the voting, or ignored Charles' wishes for them to abstain and avoid a conflict of interest (those people know who they are) will not be included in the totals at the end of the judging period. Charles and I, by mutual agreement, will decide to whom that applies at that time.


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## FatherHooligan (Mar 27, 2008)

Entry Number 1
Form- 6
Joinery-8 
Function-7

Both are interesting looking boxes, it will be interesting to see which comes out on top!
Edit…Apparently I can't follow simple instructions, mea culpa!

Entry Number 2
Form- 4
Joinery-7 
Function-7

My wife like #2 far more than number 1 and I liked the drawers for number 2 but thought it was much to big for the space I'd have for such a box.


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*Mark Shymansk:*

*How about Entry #2??

We need 1 AND 2 votes…*

Thank you.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Mark- in order for a vote to be counted it must include all three ratings for both boxes. I assume you just made a mistake in your post. If you correct it, your vote will then be counted. (Joe is keeping track for us and he can't count votes that are incomplete.)


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## pierce85 (May 21, 2011)

Well done Stumpy and Charles!

Box #1 - It's an exquisite piece that demonstrates a high level of skill, what you would expect from an experienced craftsman. It's a beautiful box through and through, and while the design is stunning it doesn't push the envelope in the same way that Box #2 does.

form-9
joinery-9
function-10

Box #2 - I love Art Deco so the form really spoke to me. I thought the design took some risk, was unconventional and VERY creative, all of which gave it a slight edge in form for my tastes. Where I think the box suffered was in its function, but then given it's unconventional - fantastic - design, that was almost unavoidable.

form-10
joinery-8
function-7


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## shopdog (Nov 9, 2008)

Well done to both of you…no losers here.

Box #1

Form-10
Joinery-9
Function-7

Box #2

Form-8
Joinery-9
Function-8

Box #1 is a beauty, with a great finish. Looks very well made, and I like the secret compartment. 
Even though it's larger than it looks, I wouldn't keep a remote in there…but it looks like a great pretzel box, and would have won the Halloween candy challenge. I would be proud to say that I made it.

Box #2 is very cool…I like art deco…but I don't like that clock, even though it was probably a difficult detail. My cable box has an LED clock on it, and that's where I look to see the time. I wouldn't want another clock to change twice a year. 
Although it's a nice stash box for lots of things, I wouldn't keep a remote in there either. I built a remote holder years ago, and we never use it. The remote sits by itself on the table, where it's easily accessible. However, it is clever the way the top opens, and I like the dovetailed drawers.

Good luck to both of you.


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## skunkeye (Nov 5, 2011)

Stumpy,

I don't know for sure who made the boxes, but I have my suspicions based on the style. I didn't come here to vote for one over the other, I simply voted for the one I liked a great deal more than the other.

As to why Box 2 doesn't appeal as much…finish seems dull and lackluster, clock does seem disproportionately small, the welder mask access is clumsy, drawers don't have pulls, I prefer half-blind dovetails for drawer fronts as opposed to through dovetails, the joint on the side near the top…I would have covered the end grain of the top with the side board, the front board has a little bit of figure towards the bottom which made me look at it several times to make sure it wasn't planer snipe, on the left side near the back you can see where a lighter portion of the board draws your attention to it.

When I make something, I am my harshest critic. When voting I try to be fair. It is a shame both these articles won't be auctioned off in a blinded fashion, so that the market would decide the winner.

You can disregard my vote if you want, but look at the list above and look at my scores for box 2. I gave box 1 a 10 in all categories because I wouldn't change a thing. Wouldn't change the size, the shape, the finish, the wood, the joinery, wouldn't give it a hinged lid, wouldn't put an inlay in that beautiful tiger maple. I really don't know how one would make that box better, so I gave it 10s.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*Skunk*- I don't have any problem at all with the way you voted, or anything you said just now. It wouldn't have mattered if you gave both boxes all 10's or if you given one a perfect score and the other all 1's- I only objected to the "highschooler made it for his mom" and "If I was given it I would regift it" remarks which I found confrontational in an otherwise very nice forum. If you want your judging to be taken seriously, you should keep your remarks professional.

As for who made the second box, it wouldn't matter to me if I did, Charles did or somebody else did. BOTH boxes took a tremendous amount of effort, which was given freely for this cause, and there are over a hundred comments above yours that treat them that way, regardless of which one they voted as being better.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

back to the voting folks, all is good,  rock on…


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## Ellen_Woodworker (Nov 7, 2011)

Box #1

Form - 10
Joinery - 10
Function- 10

Box #2

Form - 7
Joinery - 8
Function - 6

Box #1: The size and shape of the box is perfect for an end table or coffee table. I particularly like the two-tone wood that the woodworker used. That is a lovely touch. As for funtionality, the use of this box for beer and pretzels is my kind of box!! I can see my husband watching football and reaching into the box for snacks. This box would be fun to own!! Box #1 is the definite winner in my humble opinion.

Box #2: This box is too big, in my opinion, for an end or coffee table. I do not believe that there was a lot of workmanship involved in making this box. The clock was a nice addition. I am not sure that the woodworker who made the box would actually have a game controller to store in there-I could see a remote for the TV, however!


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## Bluepine38 (Dec 14, 2009)

Stump, just wanted to thank you for all the effort and time you have put into making Lumberjocks an
interesting and fun site to visit, not forgetting Charles here, but you have caught too much flak for just
trying to make this site fun. I thank both you and Charles for this extra effort to share your woodworking
talents and to get the members to also contribute their bit to the site.


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## derosa (Aug 21, 2010)

Box 1

Form: 8
Joinery: 10
Function: 5

Although a very pretty box I wouldn't have it in my living room as it would very quickly attract the toddler and friends. It also wouldn't fit with my "decor" which is a mishmash of items accumulated over 10 years of college. I gave the function a 5 because while it holds plenty the lid isn't attached which means I have to relocate it while using the box, these means finding space on the small side table amongst the chips and beer. It looks better suited to holding cigars, jewelry or my ancient coins and repurposed for holding living room objects.

Box 2
Form: 9
Joinery: 8
Function: 10

Although I'm not into art deco this is an item that would blend into many different styles of living rooms in my opinion which is necessary for something that isn't custom built to the space. The joinery took a little hit since I think I see a spot or two that isn't quite perfect but that could be lighting/photography. Function gets high marks because the lid flips back meaning it is easy to locate and still holds everything it could need to in my living room. The lack of overall shininess means the kids might leave it alone.


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## superstretch (Jan 10, 2011)

Entry # 1

Form 8
Joinery 9
Function 6

Great looking piece, but the sides (the coved, almost molding-looking pieces) didn't really speak to me. The lid and bottom blew me away tho.

Entry # 2

Form 6
Joinery 8
Function 9

Seems much more practical, but Gets lost in a sea of walnut- perhaps due to the photographing. It needs some shine and some depth. The opening mechanism is very cool and it, considering the contents, looks much smaller than it really is.


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## jackthelab (Jan 10, 2011)

Sorry, but both are winners in my book. Excellent work and well executed.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

*box 1*

form:10

joinery:10

function:9

*box 2*

form: 8

joinery: 9

function: 7


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Stumpy,

I have this all on my email. Whew! A lot of visits and a lot of votes and opinions. Pretty good for both participants. Woodworking is a process of learning, and it is even about how we are living.

Both participants put their "selves" into the piece. It is out here for us to see? Probably would not have happened if you hadn't ruffeled a feather or two? Have seen and support your coments and your work.

As A!Jim said way back, which hit home for me is " we need to see more of your work" This winter here in MN I'm setting aside most of my available time to make my mistakes.  Get frustrated, and make the projects.

People get passionate about this stuff. As I said,"been a follower of Charles for a long time", and…here it comes…I'm not going to be building an antique piece, but I am learning that everything in that build is in all great builds.

Both you and Charles will continue to evolve.

Look forward to seeing what's next.

Wow, as I am writting this more email.

Boy I have a lot to eventually clear from my inbox. LOL


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## jwisbey (Oct 17, 2011)

Entry #1:
Form- 10
Joinery-9 
Function-8

Entry #2:
Form- 9 
Joinery-9 
Function-10


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

Box 1:
Style 10
Skill- 9
Practicality- 9
beautiful wood choices, love the hidden compartment idea, but not well hidden.

Box 2:
Style 8 
Skill- 9 
Practicality- 8 
Really neat deco concept, and like the spalted wood drawers, not sure for scale and the swing top how practical it is


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## rrdesigns (Sep 4, 2009)

Just chiming in to agree with Bluepine38 and DocSavage45. This has been fun and I thank you for starting the thread. And while my email box has been overloaded with all the updates they haven't stopped me from eagerly logging in to read all the new comments. Thanks again.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Charles and I have decided to close the judging at the end of the day because we want to reveal the box makers and give our extensive comments on each other's work and our own methods. So vote now if you haven't yet!


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## yrob (May 26, 2008)

I already voted earlier in the thread but I wanted to say that whichever box you did Stumpy, it is very well done. That ought to show some people that because you have this humorous approach to woodworking, does not mean you are without skill. Well done Sir.


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

We're waiting with baited breath … I'm just not going to tell you what I bait my breath with!

-Gerry


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Entry Number 1
Form- 10
Joinery-8
Function-7

Entry Number 2
Form- 8
Joinery-8
Function-9


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

HAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAA! That's the funniest thig I've heard all morinng! (*Gerry*)


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## BreakingBoardom (Dec 18, 2009)

Well both are great looking boxes. Nothing like I was imagining either of you would build. So on to the judging.

*Entry#1
Form - 8
Joinery - 7
Function - 8
*
Now I love the wood choice on this box. For form it was nice but the curved sides aren't my style but overall still pleasing to the eye. For joinery and construction I split that up into two parts with five points each. While is was constructed very well I didn't see a lot of joinery showcased. As for function, the hidden compartment is cool, but not sure how useful it'd be, and the box's size may make it tough to hold everything one would want.

*Entry #2
Form - 8
Joinery - 9
Function - 9*
I again like the idea and design of this piece. I do think the clock is a little undersized but a nice addition. I again broke joinery & construction into two parts and liked the drawer joinery and the contrasting drawer fronts. As for function, I do believe this one to be more functional although for some it may be a little large. Personally, I've been looking for a place to keep my tissue box and my Zicam. lol.

That being said, if there was a finishing category, Box 1 would have a slight advantage as I like finish better on it. Thanks for sharing this contest with us and good luck to you both. Hopefully Charles box will bring in a good amount of money and Stumpy, hopefully yours brings about a meaning to the recipient that is more than money can give. Sorry for your loss!


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## WoodWoman (Nov 1, 2011)

Entry #1

Form - 10
Joinery - 10
Function - 9

Entry #2

Form - 7
Joinery - 7
Funtion - 8


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*Stumpy:*

Does that mean *Midnight Tonight Central Time??*

Exactly, *when does it end?*


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Charles and I noth live in the Eastern Timz Zone, so the rest of the country's clocks need to catch up with us!

Maybe we should make it end when the clock on box #2 strikes midnight… although I'e been looking at the picture for days and it hasn't advanced so much as a minute… maybe it's broken… 

Sometime between when I go to bed tonight and when I get up in the morning and post the results thread, no specific time is set yet. Keep score until I ask for the final totals, and thanks again for the help.


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

OK Stumpy, just post here… *"Voting has ended"*... and I will update & send you and Charles the results.

(BTW… y'all… I have prepared a spreadsheet for the votes & am keeping it up to date… will be sending Stumpy & Charles the file when ended.)

*We have 90 votes so far… can we break 100?
... c'mon… let's vote!*


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## BrandonW (Apr 27, 2010)

Both boxes are very nice and their respective makers should be proud!

Entry # 1

*form-8*-a beautiful box with an excellent finish. That said, the style doesn't appeal to me (not something I would buy for the house), but I can certainly appreciate it for its own style.

*joinery-9*-well executed miter joints are harder than it seems.

*function-9*-open space so one can arrange the contents anyway they want. Not exactly sure what good a secret compartment is, because the box is so nice a theif would surely steal it.  Drug sniffing dogs would find the contents. 

Entry # 2

*form-7*-The art deco style generally appeals to me, but this box/clock just doesn't do it for me. Also, the finish on the first box was much nicer.

*joinery-8 *-multiple types of joinery present, including those dovetails, but as someone has pointed out already, it's hard to inspect how well those dovetails were really executed based on the photo.

*function-7*-I was very surprised to see how the box opened, but it seems like too many steps to access the contents for its intended purpose.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*cr1- *I guess I don't understand the question. The boxes are pictured above…


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## ChuckC (May 13, 2010)

Great work from both.
Box 1
form 8
joinery 9
function 10

Box 2
form 6
joinery 5
function 10


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

box 1

form - 8

joinery - 9

function - 8

box 2

form - 8

joinery - 8

function - 8

i think both of these boxes are well done
in their respective styles

neither is something i personaly would use at home
just my tastes i guess


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## Pdub (Sep 10, 2009)

First I want to say "Thanks". This has been fun and I can't wait to see who wins and who built what. I would put both entry's in my house, just for different uses.

#1 would go in the living room , probably on the fireplace mantle. 
#2 would go downstairs, on the floor, next the Playstation. Perfect for holding games and controllers.

Entry #1

*Form-10
Joinery-9
Function-8*

Entry #2

*Form- 9
Joinery-9
Function-8*

Good luck to both of you. As stated many times, both of you are winners.


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## saddletramp (Mar 6, 2011)

Very nice. Very, very nice! Stumpy, I was wrong to doubt you, which ever one you did, you did good. They are both just lovely. My personal favorite is box #2 only because box #1s style is not my cup of tea (as style is a personal thing, I will try not to let it effect my rating). Ok, here goes:

Box #1
Form: 10 not my thing but just beautiful
Jointery: 10 perfect
Function: 9

Box #2
Form: 9 I prefer this style, however, IMO the clock is too small
Jointery: 10 what else can I say
Function: 9 I had to deduct 1 point because IMO the way that it opens is a bit unwieldly

Good grief, trying to judge these two entries is almost as hard a job as you two had building them. LOL


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## darinS (Jul 20, 2010)

Truly wonderful boxes by both contestants, and very hard to choose a winner, but that was the question for this topic wasn't it. Here goes my results.

Box 1:

Form - 9
Joinery - 9
Function - 8

Comments: I really liked the secret compartment factor of this piece and the overall shape. The only downside I can think of is still rooting for remotes since they are all in one space. On a side note, how well do pretzels keep the beer cold?

Box 2:

Form - 7
Joinery - 10
Function - 9

Comments: I like how well the drawer fronts distinguish themselves. I also think this piece will make it as little easier to keep remotes and such organized. I am not a huge fan of Art Deco. I think the clock may be a little small and overall this piece may be a little big for an end table.

General comments: Overall, I think both people did a wonderful job and I am glad that both of these will be contributing to helping others. My thanks to both Mr. Neil and Mr. Nubs for allowing not only myself, but everyone else to play along with this contest.

Stumpy: So sorry to hear about your loss. Your family is in my prayers during this time of trial.


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## ETwoodworks (Jan 10, 2011)

Box 1 form 9, joinery 9, function 8, Box 2 form 7, joinery 9, function 9. Both look great good show guys. And Thanks it has been fun watching.


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## ccurtis73 (Jul 9, 2009)

Both boxes were great…

Box # 1
form - 9
joinery - 9
function 9

Box #2
form 9
joinery 10
function 10


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

Box 1
Form 10
Joinery 9
Function 8
Looks like a classic design. I love the choice of materials here. Would've liked to see some divided compartments in the top portion.

Box 2
Form 9
Joinery 10
Function 7
Art Deco is cool looking and might fit perfect in certain decors, but the hinge top plus a drawer puts a lot of steps between me and the remote control. The dovetails and the drawer fronts look great though!


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## live4ever (Feb 27, 2010)

Box 1
Form - 10
Joinery - 9
Fucntion - 9

Box 2
Form - 7
Joinery - 8
Function - 7


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

so now we can try to guess who made what…well here it goes….....i think the charles made number 1 and stumpy made number 2…......my reasoning….....i think the first box has got a little more class to it then the first, i love both boxes, but the first one has the look and feel of a more seasoned pro..and i think charles made it…the second one is wonderful to but its a little bulky and doesnt have the feel of the first one…i love the wood used in the second one and would be darn right proud to own it, if i came across it to buy…but there is just that something about the first one..and i love the secret hiding place, and i know charles likes to add secret places…ive seen enough of his dvd's to know he likes to have that extra little flair…thats my thinking on this…great job to you both…i would be proud to have either one in my home…congrats to whoever wins…...grizz


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## LateNightOwl (Aug 13, 2009)

Box 1
Form: 10
Joinery: 10
Function: 10

Box 2
Form: 6
Joinery: 7 
Function: 6


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## docnewt (May 14, 2008)

Both are beautiful and great workmanship. 


Form 9
Joinery 10
Form 10
2
Form 8
Joinery 9
Function 10


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## docnewt (May 14, 2008)

1 Charles
#2 Stumpy


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## DMIHOMECENTER (Mar 5, 2011)

The creators:
#1 Charles
#2 Stumpy


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## mikema (Apr 27, 2011)

My guess is Entry 1 is Charles and Entry 2 is Stumpy as well.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

CHARLES has requested that, since many from his website want to comment, we stop the voting a bit early. So any votes after #167 Will not count toward the total. This is at Charles' request.

SO* VOTING HAS NOW ENDED*! But we will wait to announce the winner and reveal the makers until tomorrow morning- STAY TUNED!


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## kweinert (Nov 20, 2009)

#1
Form: 8
Joinery: 10
Function: 8

#2
Form: 7
Joinery: 9
Function: 7

#1 comments:
Form isn't my cup of tea, but it's classic and well done. Function is ok, but I think smaller stuff would tend to get lost in it. Also harder to get at the hidden storage without losing/mixing up everything stored in the main compartment.

#2 comments:
Form is nicely done, the drawer fronts don't seem to match well and the clock backing doesn't seem to fit in well. Joinery appears to be well done - nice thin dovetails. Function gets a knock because of the extra room required to open it up. I like the idea of the hidden drawers, but that hinging back means that it will take up more depth than it would initially appear.

My guess is Charles did the first box because of the wood, form, and hidden compartment. My other guess is that Stumpy did the second box - because Charles did the first one


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

.... A Great contest… was fun… Both people really put a lot of work into their projects!

Thank you BOTH!


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## scrabby (Sep 4, 2009)

If there was "finishing" criteria, I would've ranked #1 higher. Without weighting finishing too much, I give #2 great marks for design and construction.

*Box 1:*

Crikey, does that maple and walnut pop with the beautiful finish! That is just inspiring! I did

Form: 8
Joinery: 9
Function: 8

*Box 2:*

Love the advanced engineering!

Form: 9
Joinery: 9
Function: 9


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## BreakingBoardom (Dec 18, 2009)

Well, from what I've seen, Charles likes working with Tiger Maple which would suggest he did the first one, but the fact that it was pictured on what looks to be a moving blanket or in the trunk of someone's car, makes me think Stumpy. And I wouldn't put it past Stumpy to use the TM just to throw people off. My guess is both were made by people with more skill than me. Great job guys!


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## Justin57 (Jul 16, 2009)

I didn't vote but obviously box 1 was by Charles. He would never show, much less sell (boxes will be auctioned), a piece without a finish of some kind on it.


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

Oooops… my comment must go… The winner has NOT been formally announced!

Sorry…


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Joe, I think this all started over the making of a video, so how about Stumpy and I do a video on how the respective pieces were made, ,,, you good with this Stumpy, after all your the one who said your viseos were superior, I'm good, what say you


> ?


?


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

That sounds like a wonderful idea!!

Thank you again… Very much…


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Wait a minute- Charles… I asked you about that at the very beginning… I seem to recall you saying you were going to throw together a box, slap some finish on it and that was it… I suppose my video prowess is keeping you up nights?


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## schuft (Apr 6, 2011)

Um, I didn't know Stumpy was filming his own TV pilot, but then I mostly just follow the project channel. I hope this wasn't a publicity stunt.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

me and the girls will throw something together, like the entry, let me know when ya ready, and we will be there, your call all the way, 

uh ho,,,, Sherri, said, call it done , and walk away, she may be right, got alot to do,, client projects and travel
and classes and so forth, and a weekly show, geez, but maybe,


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*schuft*- (comment has been removed because it is off subject)


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

schuft, not on my part, I played by the rules, and did what time I had would allow, no joke,


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

From the two styles with out a doubt Charles made number #1 and stumpy #2
for me it was easily deducted because I know Charles would never make something like the #2 item
and the details of number #1 just screamed quality and design know how like a craftsman of 35 years would put together.
I was very surprized how large #2 was when the orginal rules set forth called for a *small* box that would sit on the corner of a coffee table.My guess number 2 must be some where between 20-24" tall and 16'-18 wide so unless your coffee table is made of 6×6s and is 8ft long #2 would hardly sit in the corner of a coffee table. I think any one that gave #2 a superior vote in the function category over #1 was comparing how much stuff fit in #2 but that's only because in my opinion #2 broke the rules by being so large. I am surprised that #2 received the votes it got by my count #1 had about a 3 to1 giving #2 about 25% of the votes. I have to say that the concept of number #2 was a unique Idea but not up to a professionals standards. It was interesting to watch this challenge unfold.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Actually, *a1Jim*, the rules stated a small CABINET or box that could fit on an endtable and hold all the stuff a person would want to put into it.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

That's fine Kat. *A1Jim *is an A1 guy. And his opinion is more than welcome.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

damn, same LJ , different day,, Im outta here,, Tommy had it right, sort it out yourselves, Stumpy wins, good for him, ... Im gone, funny thing about people, but I dont have time nor the inclincanation, to bother, work to do, ,,,


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*As for the film, Charles*. let's do a joint venture. Maybe a five or ten minutes thing each and then I can edit them together into one short flick. You can put it on your site and I'll post it in mine (and here on LJs).

But take a couple of weeks to catch your breath and do some paying work. We'll get together on it when we both have more time, it'll be a lot of fun!


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## birdsill (Nov 7, 2011)

It's obvious to anyone who has followed Charles Neil at all that box number 1 is his. The elegant design, use of the tiger maple, attention to detail and the impeccable finish, not to mention the secret compartment and the flowing lines all scream his style.
While I like some good art deco, box 2 looks like a welding mask cobbled together with sticks from the scrap bin. The visible sapwood and little or poor finishing is a giveaway this is not a CN creation. While it is hard to really judge from web photos, it appears the fit and finish are just not top notch. I like the spalted drawer fronts, but it would be classier if they looked grain matched. If they are, it doesn't show. It's lack of attention to those little details that reinforce that this is not a CN box. One box looks professional, the other quite amateur.


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## romc101 (Oct 19, 2008)

Charles always teaches build to finish not finish the build enough said congatulation to both


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Stumpy I looked at the original post and found it did say cabinet but it did say small .I guess that's open to interpretation

*Here's the post*.
By the way, Charles- I ACCEPT YOUR CHALLENGE!
When someone like you gives someone like me an opportunity to have his work critiqued, you take it.
So, here's what I propose. We both make a small project, set a deadline, and post photographs of the our entries in the forum along with our personal comments. Then we can let others comment on our work too.
You said I get to propose the rules…
The project will be a small box or cabinet designed to sit on a living room end table and hold the junk that a person would like close at hand (remote control, etc). Any style that would be appropriate for the stated purpose is allowed.
Only solid, domestic woods can be used. No veneers or exotic woods.

The entries should be judged based on three criteria: 1. Form (a score of 1-10 on overall design and uniqueness);2. Joinery (a score of 1-10 on overall durability and craftsmanship); 3. Function (a score of 1-10 on the usefullness of the design for the stated purpose)
The person with the highest score as given by members of the Lumber Jock community through their comments made within seven days of the time the results are posted will win.
Finally- we must agree to make a GIFT of the final projects to each other, shipped at our own expense.This will ensure that a undue amount of money is not spent by either side.
The deadline for completing the project will be a 12:00 PM EST November 3rd- a week from this Saturday.
You dared me, you almost double-dared me. So shall we do it? *END*

Charles asked his friends to with hold their comments until the voting was over and it is. So I stated things as I saw them.
Those of you that know me and have been a Lj member for longer than a couple weeks should know that I try to be helpful and kind. If I in any way hurts Stumpy's feelings I'm sorry. I said I thought #2 was stumpy's and it was not what a professional would make and since Stumpy's a computer guy he is not a professional woodworker.

Katdaddy I guess you broke Mommas rules. Thanks for all the PMs telling me I was trying to take over this thread and that I was trying to influence the outcome of the vote. I'm so pleased to have your help and suggestions from such a long standing LJ Member. You have a great afternoon.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

A1Jim- Your opinion was more than welcome to me. I know you're a good guy and I understand where you're coming from. Katdaddy took it another way, but it's not worth messing this whole thing up at this stage.


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## schuft (Apr 6, 2011)

Looks like I've put my foot in it. Let me say I've really enjoyed this contest. I didn't mean to accuse Charles of anything (it's not like he needs the publicity). And I certainly didn't want to accuse Stumpy either, but his post #184 talking about a pilot made me a little suspicious. Up until that post, he hadn't mentioned any sort of pilot (TV or internet).

@Katdaddy
I agree everyone has right to self-promote. This contest was presented as a "just-for-fun" thing. And it has been fun. I'm just a little tired of the viral-under-the-hood marketing I see all over the place, and I guess Stumpy's mention of his own pilot set off my BS detector, so I asked about it.

BTW Stumpy, did you edit post #184? My reader has the following after the first "Wait a minute" paragraph:

"As most here know, I have been developing a woodworking show. I released a pilot, but it was nothing more than that. The finished show is being filmed as we speak, and I did indeed film a bit of this build for it. I am filming several episodes at once, so it may bee a few weeks before that one airs, but it will indeed be coming soon. If you are going to do the same for your website, I would be honored."

"We could even make one joint film together, showing both sides at once! That would be a blast! You could send me your footage, I'll editi it together and after you aprove the final version you can put it on your site and I'll put it on mine (and here on LJs)."


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Yes, I took it down because it was irrelevant to the contest.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Wow, it's been a fun week and lots of great comments (and some not so great). We will be auctioning Charles' box beginning tomorrow and it will be open to the public for bidding. 100% of the proceeds will go to The Wounded Warrior Project and CNW will pay the shipping and all fees related to the auction. More details are available in the listing which will post tomorrow including the box dimensions. The auction will be for three days on ebay and we'll publish the link so that everyone will have the opportunity to bid if they would like. After much discussion, we decided that ebay is the best way to handle the auction as it takes care of itself, we have clients, classes, filming and some travel coming up and since the voting ended several days earlier than originally planned, we are ready to move on. It's been a lot of fun for the most part…..I'll be posting a link to the auction on our web site, on Charles' Blog tomorrow and Twitter. Have a great evening…....Sherri


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

what eva , this has been fun, despite the personal conflicts, enjoy and rock on


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

Charles, I am totally at a loss… Yes, I was promoting your site. I was telling everyone how excited I was that I was going to begin working on your cabinet. I don't understand what the heck is going on?

I didn't know you wouldn't want me to promote your show. I certainally wasn't trying to do anything bad. I have worked VERY hard on this just like you did and for the life of me can't figure out what I did wrong!


----------



## schuft (Apr 6, 2011)

@Stumpy

Okay, fair enough. I apologize for sticking my nose in where it doesn't belong. I'll go chisel it off now


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

trying to be cool ,, this is a simple challenge, keep it so, we all need to calm down,, every one is entiltled to their opinon, and if you dont like it challenge them to a build, worked for me and Stumpy, rock on folks,


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I only mentioned your show because I wanted to tell people how much I was enjoying it. If I had known you objected to me bringing it up, I SURELY would have kept my mouth shut. My remarks were all entirely positive, but I have now removed them.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

As far as the count goes there seems to be more than on way to keep tract . I followed the thread and added each score on each post who ever had the highest points for that post I put a mark under #1 or #2 or tie
My results were

#1…. 73 votes
and 
#2 ….22 votes

and 4 that were tied

I know Joe did the math by adding up all the totals and came out with much larger numbers

Again this is open to interpation of what your original rules where.

*your rules*

The person with the highest score as given by members of the Lumber Jock community through their comments made within seven days of the time the results are posted will win.


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## Scribner (Nov 4, 2011)

I agree with what A1Jim said in post #189.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Katdaddy
Sent 1 day ago
Subject contest
Message 
Your count is a little off, actually it would be better if you didn't post your numbers as to influence the people who haven't voted. Not sure why you feel your the judge here or the "spokesman". Give it a rest.
Katdaddy
Sent 1 day ago
Subject Re: contest
Message 
Just seems to me that you are trying to make this contest about you, by becoming the "spokesman" for the count and starting another thread to announce the contest thread. Really silly thing to do and you were obviously trying to get attention or whatever. Noone cares about your post count, I certainly don't. Your number count was inaccurate anyway.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

*GUYS*- I was given the privledge of making the rules, and devising the scoring system. I assure you, I know how it works. I have not shared how the scoring is going to be calculated with anyone except those involved. A1Jim's way is not wrong, it's just not as detailed as the one we used, and the box he expects to win will indeed be the winner. We used three seperate catagories, each with its own scoring system so we could get, not just an overall winner, but a detailed counting of what people liked about that winner's project. There is nothing funny going on here, all the numbers have been added by computer and will all be released. Any way you add them up, the winner will be the same. We will be adding them up by catagory, by total, and by average. When I said 10% I was referring to the TOTAL scores given to each project, but the other stats will also be disclosed. A full explination of the scoring will also be included.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Gentlemen? Seems as if this has degraded into a reality show! Really time to stop? Stump start something new. Get your creativity going and build or post some projrcts. And I hope your show works out for you. As for me, going back to working with my tools. Rake care.


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## RONFINCH (May 24, 2010)




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## pierce85 (May 21, 2011)

If it wouldn't be too much trouble, I'd like to change my function score for box #2 from 7 to 8. Can I do that or is it too late?


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

I don't know what the heck just happened here, but as much as I like EVERYONE, *I am freaking tired of everything becomming an argument*. You people have no idea on how many hours I put into this. How much abuse I've endured just for daring to accept this challange. The names I've been called, the way every freaking word I say is hyper-analyzed… and GOD HELP ME if I slip up and say something wrong by mistake! I've been walking on eggshells all week, trying to keep every side happy, trying to quash any argument and keep things professional. MY FRIGGING FATHER IN LAW DIES and I had to send my wife alone across the state to be with her mother because I was dedicated to making this whole thing a positive experience for everyone! Then I get crap for wanting to make the box a gift. Then I get even more crap because family events prevented me from finishing the STINKING BOX with enough shine! All week, PMs, emails, comments on here in various threds, comments on other forums, a bunch of crap from people who think nothing about ruining what could have been a good thing!- and *now for it to all go to heck at the very end*?

*I worked too hard for this crap! I never use prophanity but you have no idea how hard it is right now. This has been building all week and I'm sorry you all have to hear it. But for those who want to nitpick and argue-*GROW THE HECK UP!

(No, these words are NOT directed to Charles, and I am speaking for myself, not him.)


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## Justin57 (Jul 16, 2009)

Deleted by myself in the hope of stopping the thread from continuing


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## renners (Apr 9, 2010)

1 CN
2 SN

Here's the Scooby-Doo bit…

The Clue is in the Playstation controller. The logic being that Charles Neill is a busy guy and has never heard of Playstation - and would therefore not have conceived a storage solution for a PS controller. I also imagine in retirement, Charles might perhaps enjoy tending to Bonsai trees, to which entry no.1 would be well suited (sans lid).
Well done both of you, it has been entertaining.


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*. . . . . . . . . . Box #1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Box #2

. . . Form . . . Joinery . .Function . . . Total . . . . . . . . Form . . . Joinery . . . Function . . .Total

. . . . 931 . . . . . 933 . . . . 803 . . . .2667 . . . . . . . . . 760 . . . . . 802 . . . . . .799 . . . 2361

100 votes 
*

*Totals from My Spreadsheet… Through post #167.*

*Double check Post#24… He entered Box#2 First instead of Second!*


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Stumpy-Hope you take this the right way … if you're going to produce a show (TV / Web / etc.), get used to it.

Critics will be coming at you from all directions, they all know more than you do, you never do anything right, and they'll never watch you again.

I'm not taking a position on any of the posts here … just saying that's the way it is.

To quote the late, great Jimmy Durante, "Everybody wants to get into the act!"

-Gerry


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## superstretch (Jan 10, 2011)

Well then..

I, for one, look forward to bidding on either of these items, knowing that *both* would make great presents .. or selfishly keep for myself  .. knowing that proceeds are going to a great cause.

My suggestion is that if you have a problem or argument with others, take it to another thread.. You're bringing the entire tone of this thread down.

On the bright side, I'd like to personally both Charles and Stumpy for selflessly setting aside their time for some friendly competition and for doing it for a very worthy cause!


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## pierce85 (May 21, 2011)

Seriously, This was meant to be a friendly contest with proceeds going to two good causes. Within this context, I just don't understand the need to insult someone's work. And then the misunderstandings… I think stumpy really got the raw end of the deal here.


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*I really don't understand how this wonderful FUN thing 
can turn into a Baby's Pissing Contest!

Why don't we stay Grown Up like we're supposed to be?

I think a bunch of you OWE Stumpy one HUGE apology!
*


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## lwllms (Jun 1, 2009)

Guess? Charles made the first box and Stumpy the second.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

@ Stumpy: No good deed goes unpunished.


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## SalvageCraft (Jun 26, 2011)

Good job to both Charles and Stumpy. I was still deliberating my vote and didn't get the chance to enter it before the dinner bell rang…

It looks pretty square concerning who made what. The next bit of fun will be watching the auction!

Stumpy - You did great trying to mediate between all the different perspectives. Just take yourself a deep breath and enjoy the fun that was had. I hope that all the good that came out of this finds it's way back to you.

Charles - Awesome work on both the box and the challenge!


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## Kindlingmaker (Sep 29, 2008)

Dang, both are outstanding and very different from each other, almost two different catagories! This will be a hard one to vote on. Classic beauty is eye catching but ingenuity stirs excitement. This will be a tuff one! I too will be back to vote…


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## grizzman (May 10, 2009)

one comment i would like to make for future contest like this , is that when you make the rules about when a contest starts and when it ends…dont change it…there are many who read the rules and knew they had a week to vote, and now they will not be able to, it will be frustrating to them and could cause some folks not to participate next time…just my 2 cents…


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## sras (Oct 31, 2009)

Stumpy & Charles - thank you for one of the funnest internet events I have had the pleasure in which to participate! I know it took extra effort from both of you to make this happen. Given that your intent was to have some fun, I would call it a great success!

The concept was unique and it has been fun to watch the comments roll in over the past few days.

Stumpy - Sounds like you have had a rough time lately. I am sorry that had to happen. I have very much appreciated all the effort you have put into this event as well as your efforts to make LumberJocks a more entertaining place. I hope you have time to give to your family when this is all done. I know it takes 10 "attaboys" to offset a frustrating comment - but I hope my appreciation helps.

I am now looking forward to seeing the auction details!


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

Congrats again to both, well done. I think CN made box 1. Based on the finish. they were both nice. Well done to both.


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## rrdesigns (Sep 4, 2009)

The tissue box and cold remedy are a very strong hint that Stumpy (and his sense of humor) are present and accounted for in box #2. I'm still laughing at that one. You both treated us to a fun adventure and all of the comments were enlightening. Thanks to both of the contenders.


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## jumbojack (Mar 20, 2011)

Two great builds, voting, pissing contest, man this has been *GREAT!*


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## bglenden (Apr 18, 2011)

Too bad - a fun contest made sour by unpleasant comments from the spectators and overly defensive ones from the contestants.

Despite that, I have to note that I love box #1 and think #2 is very creditable.

Cheers,
Brian


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## dakremer (Dec 8, 2009)

cool boxes guys! I hope it generates a lot of money for the charity. sorry about your loss, Stumpy

I dont understand all the bipolar mood swings going on throughout this thread though!! goodness gravy


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Let's PARTY !!!!!!!!


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## Muzzy (Nov 8, 2011)

Anyone that knows Charles Neils craftsmanship knows his love for routers. This is just a bracket foot on a bracket foot. For Stumpy to get the full understanding of a true craftsman He needs to send Charles Neil his box and let Charles Neil finish it, and for Stumpy to build the same box again. Put them next to each other and guess who will win. Charles Neil is like Bear Bryant of Alabama…he will beat you with his then he will beat you with yours.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

It really does not matter who won and who lost, what matters more is that BOTH LJs WON the appreciation and respect of the majority of members. They have both acted like gentlemen and had some fun along the way. Both are at different stages of their woodworking journey and extra credit must go to Stumpy for having the balls to take on Charles, a master at his craft.
On the whole, this has been an exciting and worthy endevour, enhancing LumberJocks as the Premier WW site.
Congratulations to both contestants, you have made us all proud.


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## shopdog (Nov 9, 2008)

Is it too late to enter this contest? I've been working hard on my entry.
Thanks for viewing.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

The auction has begun for Box #1 by Charles Neil.

Here is the link to the ebay auction with details.

Go to Auction


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

its done, as far as I can see ., Sherri is getting it up on Ebay and the auctioning will begin, its been fun, a bit testy at time's , but we all made it thru, and I see no winners or losers, just a good time, and the lessons learned for any future events for me are,

rules should be more definitive , and the participants should be noted in the beginning so more explaniation can be offered, just my .02, but now its in the history books, and all is well, despite all of us, guess it was like a good sports game, and churned up some excitement.

Auction is up http://intheworkshop.wordpress.com/


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## racerglen (Oct 15, 2010)

Geeze Steve, you could have at least added a packing tape finish ?

;-)


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

The reason things look "bipolar" is because Charles and others went back and edited out the comments while they still could. (Which is perfectly fine, don't get me wrong!) I didn't get that chance. But there was a lot more going on above than it appears now.

This has also been under attack via other emails, forums etc. More than one person has said I made up my father-in-law's death just to avoid donating to charity…

I also don't mean to blame ANYTHING on Charles. That's not what I meant at all…

Anyway, sorry you had to hear it, but when Charles went off once (in the Tommy Mac thread that started all this) everybody hopped on board. No problems. So I think I am entitled to that ONE vent. Now it's over and this process will continue with the wrap up thread today, and the auction.


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## StumpyNubs (Sep 25, 2010)

ALSO- *The unpleasantness (most of which has been edited out) had NOTHING to do with any of the voting. Neither Charles nor myself has anything bad to say about the scores given, even the low ones!*

Shopdog- I would give you a good solid 7 for function!

Please move comments from this thread to the "wrap up thread"...

And check out the auction!


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## TheDane (May 15, 2008)

Charles-Actually, there is a 'winner' here … the Wounded Warriors Project.

God Bless you for the support you continue to give to this most worthy cause!

-Gerry


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## Letorix (Jul 19, 2011)

Oops deleted


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

i wont vote but they are both nice. i like the dove tails on 2 and the tight miters on 1 i don't know how anyone could score a more difficult joint lower when it looks flawless I say its a tie in every category but others will vote for who they like better and since i don't know either of you i say a tie is good this should have been a blind vote with no one knowing whose was whose until voting was done that way no one could put personality's before substance imho


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

... testing… testing… 1… 2… 3…
... is it closed… closed… or open?


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## Dusty56 (Apr 20, 2008)

LOL , Joe …I've been waiting to see how many people would continue voting after the *CLOSING of this post* ! Hahaha


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## JoeLyddon (Apr 22, 2007)

*Hail Hail the Gang's All Here !!!
What the heck do we care…
What the heck do we care…
Hail Hail the Gang's All Here…
. . . . . .

*


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