# CAUTION: Fraudulent Large Sales Orders



## mmh (Mar 17, 2008)

I thought I'd share a recent inquiry I had for a large order of my custom made canes. I had an e-mail from a fellow posing as "K. B--" and the origin of the e-mail looked to be that of a store's website. The inquiry was for 300 pcs. of a custom designed cane. After a couple of e-mails trying to determine what they were looking for, they asked me what the price would be and what method of payment was accepted.

Being that I do one-of-a-kind custom work, this really wasn't something I wanted to get into, but it was also intruiging. I had typed up a draft of a reply but decided to inquire first, the Company Name, President/Owner, Address, Phone, E-mail, etc. . The inquirer never responded. I looked up the company website and found a phone number and contacted them. The person I spoke to was one of the managers who had been employed there for several years and confirmed that he did not know of such an employee and actually that this person had purchased a small item from them "more than several years ago".

He informed me that they have had some inquires for very large orders, especially from overseas. When they tell them they ONLY take Cashier's Checks for payment, the inquirer is never heard from again. Apparently, if you accept a credit card or other method of payment that can be disputed, the funds can be reclaimed in a dispute and you will be out of your merchandise AND payment. (A "He said, She said" type of situation.) So, a one way venue of payment is the only way to go on large orders.

A Red Flag on the e-mail was also obvious when the spelling, diction and/or punctiation, was very poor and childish. It was not done in a professional manner at all. It could be that the writer was either very young, illiterate and/or from a non English speaking/writing background. (Please keep in mind that I give people who speak English as a second language a lot of respect, as I myself do not know enough of a second language to qualify as bi-lingual.)

I have not heard from this inquirer since and it looks like my instincts paid off before I could have gotten stung by a bogus order, possibly stocking up on supplies prior to payment or stiffed for valuable merchandise sent and monies disputed on.

I have had one incidence of a client not recognizing the sale as legitimate and disputed this with the credit card company. After realizing it was legit, they had already stopped payment and I had to submit several forms and proofs of sale for funds to be released. This took over 9 months of correspondence for me to get my money. Meanwhile the credit card had it and gave no interest on the funds they had use of during that time.

I hope this helps alert any of you to stay safe with your orders and sales.


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## lew (Feb 13, 2008)

Thanks, Meilie. The internet sure has provided additional methods for the unscrupulous to take the honest person's money.


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## Allison (Dec 31, 2007)

I am very glad you picked up on this and is sharing it here with others.Thank you. You could have been writing a much worse case scenario letter to us all. I am glad your gut feeling (and follow through) kept you from having to do just that!
PEACE!!!
In the shop, one should always think of safety first! On the internet one should think the same way!
Safety from scams, safety about our children, etc.
Thanks for sharing


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## reggiek (Jun 12, 2009)

Thanks MMH, for that very informative post….

you should always investigate anything that has a flavor of suspicion about it….and as a small business you should check any orders from new customers over a certain dollar amount (based on the product…its cost and what would be a "reasonable" purchase).....Some companies do credit checks on orders over a certain amount…which is perfectly acceptable.

I also check on every vendor on www.complaintsboard.com and then with the better business bureau for their location…You could also inquire with the attorney's general office or comsumer complaints division. I do this for any purchase over $500.00.

You should also do a NSLookup on their ip address….sometimes they forget to spoof it…This address may give you a company name or other source to investigate…and if you see it originates in Nigeria do not respond…unfortunately, Nigeria is the fraud capital of the internet…I would never do business with any individual or company from there as there is over a 99% fraud rate.

It's a sad reflection on our society that folks spend more time making up these schemes to defraud rather then using their talents for some worthy endeavor.

...


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Thanks for the heads up.


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## WhittleMeThis (Mar 1, 2009)

Good advice.


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## LesCasteel (Jan 9, 2010)

Thanks for spreading the word! I get this kinda stuff all the time. The most recent was an order for two of my chairs. I asked for a down payment of $600 for each. I received a check for $2000…..written from a community college in Minnesota. Strange? Almost comical!! I called the college and talked to the lady who "signed" the check and she said someone stole a bunch of checks and were passing them every where all over the country. Now what idiot would think I would send merchandise to an individual based on a check drawn on an institution of higher learning? Anyway, I turned it over to the local office of the FBI.

Absolutely amazing what they'll try!!! Caveat Emptor…..buyer beware! also applies to honest guys/gals trying to sell their work!!


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## Bubby (Jun 14, 2010)

This sounds like a scam which also hits Craigslist. They come from a foreign country. One has to go with their gut feeling. If it seems like a bad situation then drop the transaction. Usually you are right. That's a sixth sense which I believe God has given us.

Wood Designs by Paul


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## Wood_smith (Feb 12, 2010)

I had a similar e-mail from a "company" who wanted to buy all my pouches. I replied that I only stock a few because most orders are custom sizes or with slight modifications.
He replied that was okay, just send him an invoice with the total amount for all the pouches and he would send me a cheque.
So I replied and said fine, just send me your company info because my comptroller (me) needed to run a credit check with the local police before accepting an overseas payment.
Funny, that was 6 months ago, he hasn't gotten back to me yet.


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## Pick (Feb 4, 2010)

We recently received an email from a gentleman (generated by our "contact us" page on our website.) and he wanted us to build an entertainment center for him. He would not disclose where he lived until we had finished the product, when we would ship the entertainment center. His emails were also very poorly worded and were difficult to read. He wanted to pay with a credit card. After a series of emails back and forth with him sending us pictures of what he wanted, and us getting more and more suspicious, we told him we would not go any further unless he came to our shop to look over wood selections and examples of our work. He never replied after that.


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## jordan (Nov 5, 2009)

And you can also check the IP address from such emails and they usually originate from Russia or India where the money mule business is alive and well. Good you didn't fall for that! I agree, the diction is a dead giveaway!


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## NBeener (Sep 16, 2009)

I can't imagine the Internet has truly made thieves of many honest people, but it has given thieves an international playground, in which to work.

Sad.


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## alba (Jul 31, 2010)

Thanks for the warning.
Also beware of PayPal.
If an item is late on delivery, the buyer can have the payment stopped until the item arrives.
Even though you have proof of postage and again no interest is paid.
Should the item be lost on an overseas order you lose your shipping and product.
It has only happened to me twice on 5k of sales, but it could hurt.
Jamie


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## WoodLe (Sep 29, 2010)

Yeah, stuff like this comes out of Nigera all the time! There's all kinds of different scams out there. In a lot of these SCAMS, they will send you 'extra money' which you are to send on to a 'shipping company' via Western Union. By the time YOU find out your check or payment is no good, they have the money that you sent to the 'shipping company' and no way of getting it back!


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## jusfine (May 22, 2010)

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I also have had about 25 inquiries from the same person over a 3 year period, wanting to buy certain plaques which we market for the horse industry, except he wants to have a diffrent style and have me quote him the price and he will get the money to me right away.

The first time I bit on the hook he dangled, quoted him a discounted price, took a pile of rough lumber to the post office, had them weigh and give me shipping options and sent him a price for shipping , only to have him try to chisel me down on the price some more (basicly he wasted my time).

After that, I didn't answer the emails, but they keep coming…


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## boboswin (May 23, 2007)

Foreign crooks think we are stupid.
Basically, they are correct.
We expect our ISP's and our Govt to protect us where in fact, they are only capable of billing us for services not rendered.

Jus sayin there should be a Govt. snopes for these rascals- there isn't.

Places like this help.


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## SouthpawCA (Jul 19, 2009)

My wife is an artist (she's actually sold more of her art than I ever will - but that's another story) and she gets emails that look suspicious requesting some of her art. There is a group on Facebook that tries to expose art scams. Once you read some of the examples you'll see a pattern. Here is the link to the Facebook group:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Stop-Art-Scams/135887239769963


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## Taigert (Nov 20, 2007)

It has got to the point about two years ago that I will no longer deal with Pay Pal, money orders, or credit cards period. Even a cashiers check I take it to the bank and have them verify it's legit and then wait for the funds to clear. I have even become suspect to cash, whats the world coming to??

Taigert


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## dbray45 (Oct 19, 2010)

I owned a computer company and I dealt with companies, universities, governemnts (US and otherwise) in dollar amounts in excess of $100K.

When dealing with any company/corporation that pays NET terms it is a part of business to ask for a letter of credit from any company that you are not familiar. A signed purchase order is standard business practice and if a "rush order," a check for up to 50% is not unheard of. If the customer is new to you, you are well within your rights to require a company check upon delivery/installation instead of the normal NET 30 or NET 45 terms when you accept the PO in writing or, if you are not comfortable - decline the PO. One of my best customers was one that I originally declined their PO because I didn't know them. They provided a new PO signed by the officers with a bank certified check and the credit info for future purchases. The paper trail is a required mandate - in triplicate - always. The customer expects this and appreciates vendors that are careful - they will be in business longer and will take care of their customers'.

When dealing with organizations outside of the US, when the merchandise got to the the boat (Balitimore harbor), I was provided a check for the purchase price in $US bank certified check. UPS and FEDex can provide this service as well. This is the way it was done 10 years ago and I wouldn't change this model. Otherwise you probably won't get paid.

I know a person that just took a PO and shipped $20,000 worth of printer paper to Egypt. The process was not right and he was never paid. As it turned out the paper sat on the docks for 6 weeks until someone threw it out.


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