# Of rust, priming, and painting hand planes



## Sanderguy777 (Feb 9, 2015)

Hi guys, I'm working to restore my hand planes. I moved back to the states from Tonga and my planes sat in a basement over a winter or two. There was a flood in the basement and the box they were in (cardboard, still packed for the move) was in 2 inches of water and I didn't know till like 4 months later. Now the tropics rust things, but basement water makes the cardboard part of the rust that sticks to them!

So, during this finals week I'm trying to get the metal at least defrosted and protected b4 a family trip to Oregon in like 1 week.

I tried Rustoleum rust dissolver gel with not good results. So I am trying a different product called metal saver (I think. From home depot) it is a soak vs the gel was sprayed on. So no time limits really.

So. I am wondering if you know a good way of stripping the paint off the plane before I paint it myself (not airplane stripper. Too caustic for me)
And maybe some good colorful rust free paints I could use (thinking about Rustoleum rust stop).

Also, the rust remover I'm using says it need to be coated in order to not rerust, is there a product that is paintable that I could coat it with? Or should I just oil it right away and then after our trip, use Hoppe's Gun Bore Solvent to take off the oil b4 painting.


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## Sanderguy777 (Feb 9, 2015)

Bear in mind, I have no experience with any of this, and the weather here is 40s to 50s and damp, so painting is not to the instructions' "70° and sunny, but not in direct sunlight"

Also, I want paint that DRIES. If it needs an extra couple days, or a trip to an oven, fine. But I HATE tacky paint! Especially when it costs 9 or so bucks a quart and has had 6 months or during time.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/01/26/bench-plane-restoration-guide-part-1/

Some pictures would help us give accurate advise


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## Sanderguy777 (Feb 9, 2015)

First is sanded to about 800 or 1000 grit

Second is after the gel stuff. Slight surface rust after being thoroughly dried and set for only a week.

Last 2 are craftsman #5. That's the one with cardboard embedded in the rust. The sole was scrubbed with a wire brush but still bad.


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## Sanderguy777 (Feb 9, 2015)

The first 2 images are not the same iron and chipper. 1st is #4. Second is from the #5.
The gel did take some rust off. But it defeated its purpose by not keeping it away.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/02/27/hand-plane-restoration-by-the-no-soak-method/


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Wire wheel them


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## fivecodys (Dec 2, 2013)

I have been using Evaporust from Harbor Freight and it works well for me. They usually have a 20% off coupon.
I have a couple of little troughs I soak them in.
I have used citrus based strippers on the planes that had most of the japanning missing. I follow that up with a wire brush and wire wheel.

Watch out. This is the most addicting thing I have ever gotten involved with. I already have several planes waiting in the wings for a restoration as soon as all the Christmas presents are finished.

Have fun!


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## Sanderguy777 (Feb 9, 2015)

This IS very addictive! 
So I have decided to repaint the planes. The japanning is worn and missing in spots.

Will Rustoleum stops rust or pro work? It looks pretty good and is available in my area for half the cost of the duplicolor. (It is not engine enamal so not hard)

Is there a specific reason you chose duplicolor instead of something else?
Also, with any of these paints, is primer needed?


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Duplicolor matches the original japanning in color and texture closer than most other paints. If matching that is not a concern, Rust-Oleum will work just fine.

The other advantage to duplicolor is the quick recoat time.

Any good quality paint properly applied will work. It doesn't even need to be black if the mood strikes.


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## Sanderguy777 (Feb 9, 2015)

Thank you. Right now the mone is a real concern unfortunately.

How many coats do you think I need?

Also, do you think spray is a better way to go than a can of paint? ( I thought controlling a brush would be easier than a spray pattern, but I might put it on too heavy with the brush)


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## OSU55 (Dec 14, 2012)

You want to strip them - use the airplane stripper and learn to deal with it properly, or you can continue screwing around with the lightweight stuff and waste time and $.

While I use wire wheels for the heavier rust, I like soaking in Evaporust because it gets everywhere - important if repainting.

Since you are going to the trouble of stripping, you want the paint job to look good - tape off the surfaces and spray them. If You go to the trouble to strip and tape off, you want a tough paint - Use oil based enamel implement paint. Can take a while to cure out but its the toughest stuff I know of in a rattle can.

After painting cover all surfaces with Alox. Great rust preventive. Use paste wax not oil to lube threads and pivot points, as well as the sole. Keeps dust away.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

Definitely spray, and 5 or 6 Coates.


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## 33706 (Mar 5, 2008)

I'm a big proponent of sandblasting, using the finer of the two grits of crushed glass available in discount stores.

I prefer to use brush-on Alkyd enamel. I usually use automotive spot putty first if the cast iron surface is rough, then sand with #220. I've also used heavy-bodied sandable primer followed up with steel wool 'til the surface is super smooth.

Alkyd dries slower than other oil-based enamels but it flows out without brush streaks. Two coats will do it.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

When I don't strip it, I at least wire wheel the hell out of what's left of the japanning to break the edges of it.

A wire wheel on a bench grinder does 90% of the rust removing for me. I only use a rust remover if I want almost every speck of rust off.

After the bath, wash with water, dry it, and wax it or whatever you prefer. I always put a drop of 3in1 oil in/on all threaded parts of the plane.


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## Sanderguy777 (Feb 9, 2015)

I think I'll just bite the bullet and get duplicolor since I have to get a diamond stone from Amazon anyway.

Since I brought that up, is the trend 2 sided stone better than dmt duos? I have a 6000 grit wetstone, but I want a coarser diamond stone or set that can work fast without becoming unflat. 
Budget is <110 for both 300ish and 1000ish grits. 8inch stone preferred, but wide 6 inch stone that are good quality would work too.


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## Sanderguy777 (Feb 9, 2015)

I think I'll just bite the bullet and get duplicolor since I have to get a diamond stone from Amazon anyway.

Since I brought that up, is the trend 2 sided stone better than dmt duos? I have a 6000 grit wetstone, but I want a coarser diamond stone or set that can work fast without becoming unflat. 
Budget is <110 for both 300ish and 1000ish grits. 8inch stone preferred, but wide 6 inch stone that are good quality would work too.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

That one in the picture isn't that bad at all. As a user I wouldn't go crazy stripping and painting. I would just knock the rust off the sole and sides.


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## Sanderguy777 (Feb 9, 2015)

> That one in the picture isn t that bad at all. As a user I wouldn t go crazy stripping and painting. I would just knock the rust off the sole and sides.
> 
> - corelz125


Sooo, is it safe to assume you live near spongebob? Lol
If that is good, I dont want anything to do with bad rust!
I do want it to look good, but I'm thinking about just clear coating it after a good cleaning. I was planning on painting, but that japanning is stinking on there!


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

That's not japanning. That's a Millers Falls made Craftsman. They never used japanning (that I'm aware of at least). That's a baked-on enamel. For me, sandblasting is the way to remove it. Fresh wire brush on a grinder will likely get the job done too.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

This was a rusted plane. Maybe it was spongebobs grandfathers.


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## Sanderguy777 (Feb 9, 2015)

> This was a rusted plane. Maybe it was spongebobs grandfathers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

This is the after,I left the japanning as it was and sanded the sides and flattened the sole with sand paper.


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## Sanderguy777 (Feb 9, 2015)

I cant believe I never sent photos of the finished plane….sorry!


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## Sanderguy777 (Feb 9, 2015)

After paint









Before paint









Before wire wheel and finish









After wire wheel and handle finish (my favorite plane now!)

Thank you guys!


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

Nice work


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## Sanderguy777 (Feb 9, 2015)

> Nice work
> 
> - corelz125


Thanks. I just ordered a grinder so sharpening should be WAY less work now!


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## Sanderguy777 (Feb 9, 2015)

I finished these today. The one with yellow bits has been waiting for 6 months. Of course now I have lost the chip breaker screw….


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## Sanderguy777 (Feb 9, 2015)

This one I just bought last week and I got today. It was in pretty good shape just minor surface rust that a bath of metal rescue fixed.


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## Sanderguy777 (Feb 9, 2015)

Today I figured out the secret to restoring planes and such. I have been using rust remover for all my planes since the beginning of this thread. 
Every time it was a struggle to get the parts out, washed and oiled before the metal rusted. I got to the point where I didn't even want to use the rust remover unless the part was really bad because it CAUSED rust! 
Then today I had an idea. I had read on a thread here that WD 40 was a bad lubricant and that it was originally intended for Water Displacement (try 40). That got me thinking,: "rust bath takes off rust, water neutralizes the rust killer, flash rust happens right as I dry the parts….If I get the WD40 in there right after I rinse the parts, there won't be time for them to rust…."

Well I tried it, and it works REALLY WELL. No flash rust. 
I soak the part, rinse it, half dry it, then spray it immediately with WD40. Then, at my leisure, I can oil it and assemble the tool.

Thank you guys for the info and inspiration to find the best method! (There may be a better one, but I have yet to see it!)


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

The next thing you will learn if you restore enough planes is not to soak them at all. Most restorers who do a lot of planes learn not soaking them ends in a better looking plane with a much safer process.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

If it's not a pile of rust with some pieces frozen a small wire brush and wire wheels go faster than soaking it for a day.


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## Sanderguy777 (Feb 9, 2015)

> The next thing you will learn if you restore enough planes is not to soak them at all. Most restorers who do a lot of planes learn not soaking them ends in a better looking plane with a much safer process.
> 
> - Don W


How is it safer? No chemicals? I'm just afraid that I'll lose a screw or something grab and fling a plane bed across the room.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

No chemicals is correct. Why it's safer depends on what your soaking it in, bit it's always better to not use chemicals. Sit two planes side by side for a while. One soaked, one not and you will eventually see why. You can tell the difference.


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## Sanderguy777 (Feb 9, 2015)

> No chemicals is correct. Why it s safer depends on what your soaking it in, bit it s always better to not use chemicals. Sit two planes side by side for a while. One soaked, one not and you will eventually see why. You can tell the difference.
> 
> - Don W


I use Evaporust so it is non toxic. 
Does the soak make them patina more? I haven't seen Evaporust do it, but the Metal Rescue I got originally does instantly….


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

Evaporust can etch anything that is not totally submerged. Evaporust does leave the iron a different color compared to using a wire brush or wire wheel. For the plane base I just use sand paper on the sole and cheeks.


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## P89DC (Oct 1, 2017)

> No chemicals is correct. Why it s safer depends on what your soaking it in, bit it s always better to not use chemicals. Sit two planes side by side for a while. One soaked, one not and you will eventually see why. You can tell the difference.
> 
> - Don W


A cloud of rust dust and metal vs oxcilic acid or evaporust? Doesn't seem obvious to me. "Chemical" sounds so toxic but if the cloud of dust includes old paint and japaning finish particles then I'd say you're deceiving yourself. Wiping out the patina isn't something everyone likes. I suppose the resale market wants to see items that look NOS even if they arent.


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

> No chemicals is correct. Why it s safer depends on what your soaking it in, bit it s always better to not use chemicals. Sit two planes side by side for a while. One soaked, one not and you will eventually see why. You can tell the difference.
> 
> - Don W
> 
> ...


Your point isn't clear, but it made me think mine wasn't either. By "safer", I meant for the tool. No matter what your doing in your shop, your personal safety is your responsibility. Yes, if you're going to sand rust, paint, or even bare wood you should wear a Respirator or at least a mask. As for making something look NOS, I don't recommend it, but it's a personal preference thing.

There are a thousand different ways to skin this cat. If it's your tool, you get to choose.


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## P89DC (Oct 1, 2017)

Well I don't consider myself a "plane restorer" but I do fix up old tools and never use a grinder or wire brush. Oxcilic acid is my choice. Low cost and very safe for both the tool and user.

Here's a tub with OA solution derusting a Shopsmith jointer and Sargent plane. No mess, paint is untouched as is patina. What's not to like?









OA is used to clean decks in backyards etc. Very safe. Toxic dose is the same as salt. Nobody eats 4 tablespoons of salt ,cause you'll die, don't eat four teaspoons of OA and you'll be fine too.


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## P89DC (Oct 1, 2017)

I was walking my dog this morning and remembered the time I left all my hand planes on a counter with a strip of 1" x 1/16" at the toe of a lineup of type 19 corrugated 3 through 8. They sat there for a decade untouched. Then one day I checked them out and found I had a one inch strip of rust on every plane. This was a perfect use of OA/Evaporust vs wire wheel. The solution eats the rust away without any erosion of the surrounding good, unrusted metal. If I used a wire brush wheel there would be evidence of my stupidity eternal as there would be damaged good metal taken with the rust. A damaged strip 1.5 inches wide on every toe, uggg…

Here there are today. No 5 1/4C, at some point it's time to quit collecting and get to woodworking:









And the top side for completedness:


















I've had a grinder since 7th grade (1973). One thing I learned over the years is a wire wheel on a grinder is for lawnmower blades, not treasured antiques….


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

I use a brass wire wheel on my grinder with no problems.


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## OleGrump (Jun 16, 2017)

Citrus based rust removers will also remove paint very effectively. Seems like the soak, wire wheel, sand, prime then paint procedure might be the way you'd want to go.


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## houblon (Nov 15, 2013)

Please be careful with oxalic acid. It is NOT the same as table salt.

From https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov:

"Oxalic acid is regarded as a strong poison when taken internally; as little as 5 grams have proved fatal".

Compare to table salt:

The estimated fatal dose of sodium chloride is approximately 0.75 to 3.00 g/kg.
(Which means if your weight is 80kg, you would need 60-240g of salt).



> OA is used to clean decks in backyards etc. Very safe. Toxic dose is the same as salt.  Nobody eats 4 tablespoons of salt ,cause you ll die, don t eat four teaspoons of OA and you ll be fine too.
> - Eric


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## Sanderguy777 (Feb 9, 2015)

> No chemicals is correct. Why it s safer depends on what your soaking it in, bit it s always better to not use chemicals. Sit two planes side by side for a while. One soaked, one not and you will eventually see why. You can tell the difference.
> 
> - Don W
> 
> ...


The dust I certainly more toxic than a bath of a solution so safe they say you can put your hands in it! I try not to have to use a respirator as I HAVE to for actual woodworking for allergy sake.



> Please be careful with oxalic acid. It is NOT the same as table salt.
> 
> From https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov:
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'm not drinking ANY of the chemicals I put hand planes in.

Don, the reason I like the soak method is that while it may change the patina (I haven't seen Evaporust do that. It may, but I haven't ever used it with partly exposed parts) it doesn't bother the japanning. Wire brushes on the other hand, I have seen EAT it. Also, the bucket of rust remover works while I strip the old crusty varnish and paint from a tote and knob.


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## BlasterStumps (Mar 13, 2017)

I use Evapo-rust to soak parts in but as soon as I take the parts out of the soak, they go right into safety solvent where I also brush them with a parts cleaning brush.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

Usually if the japaning comes off from the wire wheel there was either rust under some part of it or somebody repainted it. Cleaning the japanning on the base I use a wire wheel on a drill of a dremel. That way it doesn't do as much damage as a wire wheel on a 4" grinder.


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## Sanderguy777 (Feb 9, 2015)

> I use Evapo-rust to soak parts in but as soon as I take the parts out of the soak, they go right into safety solvent where I also brush them with a parts cleaning brush.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


What is safety solvent? Those two words sound like an oxymoron to me LOL



> Usually if the japaning comes off from the wire wheel there was either rust under some part of it or somebody repainted it. Cleaning the japanning on the base I use a wire wheel on a drill of a dremel. That way it doesn t do as much damage as a wire wheel on a 4" grinder.
> 
> - corelz125


I used a cup wheel (like 1" dia.) on the little rust spot in the japanning and in the process of getting the rust off, it really scratched up the japanning. I was probably pushing too hard, but Evaporust has never taken the japanning off. It didn't even take the horrific yellow spray paint off the $15 Handyman plane I have been working on so long.

I'll give the wire wheel a chance the next plane I do, now that I have a sharpening grinder and my old Ryobi is free to use for other stuff.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

I use an even smaller cup brush than that. Its probably around a 1/2" and the bristles are on the softer side.


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## Sanderguy777 (Feb 9, 2015)

> I use an even smaller cup brush than that. Its probably around a 1/2" and the bristles are on the softer side.
> 
> - corelz125


Where did you get it? I got mine at HF. I tried a dremel one once but it has no durability and just folded the wires over.


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## corelz125 (Sep 23, 2015)

I had it for awhile. Maybe Amazon. Yup I've had the same thing happen with a Dremel with some of the cheaper wire cups. I use a 3/8" variable speed drill on slow and it seems to keep the bristles intact a little longer.


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## P89DC (Oct 1, 2017)

> Please be careful with oxalic acid. It is NOT the same as table salt.
> 
> From https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov:
> 
> ...


MSDS has toxicity at 1gm/kg (like salt) and lists it as an irritant (10mil HF gloves are overkill and cheap). Not sure why the nih is so off but they are typically alarmist and more political than fact based so I guess it's par for the course. 1gm/kg it's right there with salt. At your local Ace, even in California where …

(10mil gloves from HF, box of 50 for less than $10, use a coupon!)


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## donwilwol (May 16, 2011)

> I use Evapo-rust to soak parts in but as soon as I take the parts out of the soak, they go right into safety solvent where I also brush them with a parts cleaning brush.
> 
> - BlasterStumps


I've already said I'm not a fan of soaking hand planes, but to be clear, evapo-rust is not an acid and doesn't need to be neutralized. It's also a rust prohibiter, so the instructions state to dip it back in after cleaning to prevent the piece from rusting. It will change the color of the metal but it will protect it from rusting if you're not going to finish it right away. If It's you're plane, so you can restore it however you want, but evapo-rust is probably the safest soak, if you must soak.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

> "...evapo-rust… will change the color of the metal…"
> 
> - Don W


I soaked a couple/three things in evaporust and didn't like the resulting dull grey color. Very selective on what I'd evaporust going forward, 'tis true.


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