# Powermatic PM1000 - Thoughts on this new Hybrid



## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

I got an email from Popular Woodworking today announcing the upcoming Powermatic PM1000. From the limited info I could read about on their website, it looks like they took the a PM2000 and replaced the motor with a 1.75HP motor, possibly putting it in a similar position as the Sawstop 1.75 table saw. I'm curious to hear more thoughts from the LJ community.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Unless I'm misreading it is not a hybrid, just a cabinet saw with a 115v motor.


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

wow! what a great new product from powermatic! and it's only a few hundred dollars *more* than a real cabinet saw! that gold colored paint must be pretty expensive.

http://www.tools-plus.com/powermatic-1791000k.html

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-3-HP-220V-Cabinet-Left-Tilting-Table-Saw/G1023RL


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

I'm pretty impressed. It's 9in the running for my final table saw upgrade now, between that, the steel city 15950 and the 1.75HP sawstop.

toolie, I'd go for a grizzly if they had a cabinet saw with 1.75HP, or even a hybrid with cabinet mounted trunnions. There's also the warranty difference, but still expensive for what it is.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Powermatics have always been more expensive. Some say they are worth it, I've never used one and have no comment but I would expect it to be better.


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

Last PM I used was a 7 1/2hp, 3 phase, 480 volt, 12" green monster I purchased for the pattern shop back in 1979. It is still the standard against which I compare anything new. Nothing new comes close however.

Really depresses me the way we have forsaken quality in the pursuit of cheap.


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## HillbillyShooter (Feb 15, 2012)

Got the same from Powermatic. The only difference I see is the 1.75 hp motor which can be wired for 220v. Must be a brainchild of marketing. PM is more expensive than many brands and in my opinion is (or historically always has been) well worth the difference. My TS is a PM Model 66 that I bought in 1994. I checked it with a Wixey this past winter and it was dead on just as I adjusted it back in 1994, with the stops dead on at both 90 degrees and 45 degrees. My 8" jointer that I acquired in 1996 is like wise dead on and level the full 72 inches. Unless you've had an opportunity to use a PM versus other brands, it is almost impossible to convince someone that is a Grizzly fan of the difference.


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## Surfside (Jun 13, 2012)

I like the saw a lot. But don't need it now and ….no cash.


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## shawnmasterson (Jan 24, 2013)

The only thing I like about it is the DC. 2K for a 1.75 hp TS!!!! I would never spend that kind of money. I would go for the rigid if I wasn't getting a 3 hp. furthermore if I was spending 2K on a ts the expense of adding 220 would just be a drop in the bucket. just my opinion


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

It looks like a scaled back PM2000. If it has the same guts as a PM2000, it'd be a heck of a saw. However @ $2K, it's also a heck of an expensive saw for a 1-3/4hp Asian import. If I were considering this saw due to 110v restrictions, I'd give serious consideration to the Saw Stop PCS 1.75hp instead….for a few hundred bucks more, you get well proven well built saw that has a dramatic safety feature that the PM1000 doesn't have. Or… I'd give serious consideration to paying to have 220v installed, and go with a Griz G1023RL or G0690.


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## LenH (Feb 27, 2011)

First let me say I am a PM guy all the way. 66, Drill press, Jointer, Band Saw, and bench top Mortiser.

The new hybrid looked good to me until I read the specs. The impression is that since the saw will run on 110v the user can plug it into any outlet. Most guys I know have 20 amp outlets in their shop. The specs recommend a 30 amp circuit. So as I understand it 12ga wire is not heavy enough to carry 30 amps, so only switching out the breaker won't get it. I don't know about you guys but I don't, and don't know of anyone, who has 30 amp runs. 10ga wire? If you have to run a new feed you might as well make it a 220 circuit. The saw in question can be wired 110 or 220.

Hey you electricians - am I right or wrong?


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

*The saw in question can be wired 110 or 220.*

and the motor ratings are 15A at 7.5A and 110v at 220v (according to PM's web site). there seems to be a disconnect between the motor ratings and the recommended circuit size, 30A for 110v and 20A for 220v. assuming the motor rating is it's FLA rating, the recommended wire size is overkill. yes, motor amperage spikes quite a bit at start up , but most circuit breakers are rated to accommodate that. i see no reason for the recommended circuit sizes. based on the motor ratings, that saw, configured for 220v, should operate on a 15A 220v circuit without incident (using 14 gauge wire) or, if configured for 110v operation, a 20A 110v circuit (using 12 gauge wire) should be sufficient.

when i had a 3 hp unisaw with an OEM dual voltage 3 hp baldor motor, it's motor ratings were 32A at 110v and 16A at 220v. i ran it *AND* a delta 50-850 (drawing 6A at 220v) on a single 20A 220v circuit (12 gauge wire) without incident and never a tripped breaker.

i agree with a previous poster who suggested the marketing staff should probably contact the techies and get their information straight. but this is an issue that would probably never occur to PM's target market (that target market probably doesn't even know where their electrical panel(s) is/are).


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## Buckethead (Apr 14, 2013)

Len, you sound right to me. Looking in my breaker box reveals many 15's and 20's, but nary a 30.

So knowing the market, the electrical contractor is not over wiring in case a woodworking enthusiast buys a house.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

A little light on details but some nice features.


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## skywalker01 (May 19, 2009)

Does it have a quick release riving knife? I can't find that info anywhere and haven't broken down to calling PM Tech yet. If it has that I may be sold! It's a nice looking saw with a lot of features at a great price. I worry that it may be a little weak as I'm used to using a 3HP 220 but I never need that much power anyways. Even if it's not a quick release riving knife I'm okay. That is just the clincher for me.


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## castlerockwood (Aug 31, 2013)

Great feedback from everyone on this machine. I will say I am seriously considering upgrading my Rigid saw to this machine. I have researched most of the saws on the market that are mentioned in the articles above. While $2k is a big price tag for a 1 3/4 horse machine, it is a PM. I can clearly see the difference in the machines when you look close at the ads/marketing, and the reviews on You Tube. Now of course the Rockler and 
Woodcraft guys only want you to buy a Saw Stop. And talk about price…The 1 3/4 contactor saw is about the same price as the pm 1000 when you add the cast iron wings. And it's a contractor saw. NO SAW STOP FOR ME. I will say the Grizzly saws are the best value out there, and hard to beat on value. However, I have had to learn the hard way that you usually get what you pay for. My first saw a couple of years ago was the Porter Cable portable contractor saw. It's ok for on the job and to move around, but it's not a great saw for furniture or quality cuts on hardwood. I then moved up to the RIGID 4512 because of a great sale at HD. Again, an improvement over the inexpesnive PC, but it is difficult to get good square cuts due to a weak fence system. SO…..my next saw will be my last for some time (I hope). I am going to look for quality/reputation first and price second. I believe it will now be between the Grizzly 3hp or the PM 1000. And remember everyone, the PM 1000 is a much smaller saw. The foot print is exactly the same as my rigid. The PM1000 weighs 350LBS, the PM2000 weighs 550 lbs. Good feedback everyone. I will post when I move to my Grizz or PM.


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

*While $2k is a big price tag for a 1 3/4 horse machine, it is a PM.*

do you really think the PMs built today in either china or taiwan bear ANY resemblance to the tools under that brand 30 years ago? as Knotscott has demonstrated, i believe, in comparing a grizzly TS with a laguna and a baileigh with a laguna, tha the primary differences in a lot of the saws coming into the us market today are machine color and price. for LESS than the price of a PM 1000, a grizzly 691 or 1023 can be delivered to your door. why buy a hybrid when a BETTER saw will cost less. stay away from the PM 1000 and make a smart economic decision wile getting a top flight TS from the likes of grizzly. in the case of th ecurrent offerrings from powermatic, one does not, IMHO, get what they pay for.


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## SamuraiSaw (Jan 8, 2013)

Gee, what a shock. toolie making more ignorant statements about Powermatic…..............


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## shawnmasterson (Jan 24, 2013)

Toolie is a little harsh, but spot on. When the one guy said "The footprint is exactly the same as my rigid" You are talking about inches.


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## Woodmaster1 (Apr 26, 2011)

The quality of the table saw still depends on the person using the saw and what he expects. I love my 5hp unisaw and would not trade it for any saw on the market. I do not really like the 1.75 pcs sawstop I use at school but there several people who would swear by the quality of the saw. So it depends on a personal choice. Get the saw you feel would be best.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Powermatic does have some really nice tools, but they each need to be evaluated on their own merit, and PM is not immune to profiting on their reputation, and putting fancier doo-dads on the same tools that others sell for less. I'm more of a brand realist than a brand loyalist. The fact that the name plate says "Powermatic" means little to me….honestly, I'd see it as having an advantage in resale value because so many think it means a better tool, but that's about it.

This is certainly a different saw than the one you're considering, but it's an example that proves my point. AFAIK, all of the following saws roll out of the same factory. The name plate, and anything the attaches to the castings is subject to change (fence, swithces, motors, etc.), but the castings and designs are the same. The price, retail circumstancs, and warranties also differed. They're available under than brand names of PM, Jet, Grizzly, Ohio Forge, AFF, Omega, Mao Shan, and others. In this case, the PM did have a Vega or good Vega clone fence and grated cast wings going for it….the fence adds value, the wings some, but the PM nameplate doesn't add much IMO.


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## GT350 (Dec 22, 2012)

I would look closely at the PM vs Sawstop. I just quickly looked at the specs on both and the Sawstop weighs at least 50lbs. more. I'm curious as to where the extra pounds are or are not. The Sawstop is about $300.00 more but it has a great safety feature. The Sawstop can be a little more trouble to use because of the safety mechanism but it doesn't take long to get used to.
Mike


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

I have had a PM2000 with 230v 1Ph 3HP for a number of years and have always been well pleased with it.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

*Gee, what a shock. toolie making more ignorant statements about Powermatic……...........*

oops!! musta hit a nerve.


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## castlerockwood (Aug 31, 2013)

Hi everyone. We all have opinions of what the best product is. The fact of the matter is the best product is different for each of us base on; size of shop (and footprint needed), budget, how much we use the tool, and our perception of value. At this point we can only communicate what the advertising says because we don't have a lot of hands on experience with the new PM. As for made in China, I don't believe there is a table saw made in the US any longer (except maybe the unisaw). That's according the Walter Meier rep at the last wood show. According to him most medium priced models; (Laguna, Grizzley, Shop Fox) are made in China, while the high end and commercial (Jet - Power Matic) are made in Taiwan. I believe that goes for all tools (power nailers, etc). The voltage on the PM 1000 is getting a lot of discussion too. Clearly, they could do a better job of explaining what the 30 amp requirement is. But, my friend is an electrician and he said you can have a 30 amp breaker on a 12 AWG depending on the type of motor. It gets more complicated for someone like me but he said an electrician (or hopefully PM tech support) should be able to explain the motor requirements for the PM 1000. He doubts you need to change to 10 AWG if PM says it will work with 115v. Again, I was looking at the Laguna and Grzzley before the PM. There will be a PM 1000 in my shop as soon as I can sell the Rigid. Then I can give you the good and bad from a real experience perspective. There are a lot of good products out there, and are generally priced accordingly. Enjoy woodworking everyone.


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

*But, my friend is an electrician and he said you can have a 30 amp breaker on a 12 AWG depending on the type of motor.*

i find that a bit hard to believe. circuit breakers, and even fuses before them, are designed to protect the wire, not the appliance using the current at the end of the wire. and i'm not aware of any way a 30A rated breaker can protect a 20A rated conductor, but i'll review this with one if our electrical engineers tomorrow.


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## SamuraiSaw (Jan 8, 2013)

*"oops!! musta hit a nerve."*

Nope, just amazed you're still whining about it.


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

*Nope, just amazed you're still whining about it.*

no one's whining, just telling it like it is. BTW, anyone seen the OP around this thread lately?


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## SamuraiSaw (Jan 8, 2013)

*"no one's whining, just telling it like it is. "*

LOL…........

yeah, right


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

Hey everyone, it's been good to see the thoughts and active discussions going on. Since toolie asked, yes I am still here and following this forum topic. I certainly do agree that the PM1000 isn't going to be the best bang for the buck saw you can get in that class. In addition, the discussions have brought up an interesting comparison between the PM1000 and the SawStop 1.75HP Cabinet Saw. Perhaps sometime in the near future, there will be more comparison testing done that can speak to it.


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## castlerockwood (Aug 31, 2013)

I talked with PM tech support today, he was not much help on the electical requirements. He said it will work with a dedicated 20amp circuit. I also talked to the electrician that wired my house when I built it. He said the UNINFORM BUILDING CODE will require 10awg for a 30amp circuit. So….....If in fact you have to rewire the outlet I would imagine most people will just go for the 220 circuit since it's a more efficient power source. Now the question remains why would the 1 3/4 horse PM need a 30amp circuit when the Saw Stop, Laguna, Grizzley and other 1 3/4 machines work with a dedicted 20amp. I think it comes down to the words RECOMMEND 30amp (not necessarily required). I would imagine some of the other saws use the exact same motor as the PM. More to come.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

From the PM website: *Recommended Circuit Size (Amps.) 20*

Where did anyone get 30A?


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

Rick good catch, when I originally posted this forum topic, Powermatic's online info about the PM1000 stated a 30A requirement. It looks like they've updated that information to 20A.


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

*It looks like they've updated that information to 20A.*

nice to see they can figure out what most of us knew all along.


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

There are 15 amp and 20 amp receptacles used for 110 volt circuits. I have never heard of a 30 amp receptacle for 110 volt circuits. 30 amp receptacles are used for 220 volt circuits and the plugs are way different than those for 110 volts.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

As for the saws with the grated wings-if I'm in the same room with one, I have to keep my hands in my pockets, or I'm sure to pinch my fingers between the fence and the grates.

As for 30 amp 110 circuits, yes they do exist. The marinas around here put in 30 amp outlets at the individual boat slips. Because they do have a special prong configuration, you have to buy a pig tail adaptor to use your ordinary 110 v. tools. I think 30 amp. setups were pretty common back when few shops had 220 available. But as several guys said, why would you go that route when 220 is as easy to put in (and better in every way)?


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## castlerockwood (Aug 31, 2013)

Well, we should be able to close this thread now…....I received my new PM 1000 last week. I took the weekend to put it together and adjust everything, it is a wonderful machine. It is everything I expected, and more. With respect to the power requirements, it comes with a standard plug and works with a dedicated 20 amp 110 circuit. However, the manual still quotes a recommended 30amp circuit. As someone mentioned, the manual on the website has been changed to 20amps, but they have not changed the literature. You can rewire for 220 if you like. I haven't decided if I will do that or not. I know the saw will run more efficient and handle full loads better. Since my saw is only 10 feet from my breaker box I probably will change to 220 in time.

It is the exact same footprint as my RIDGID 4512, but has a little bigger table. It weighs about 100 lbs more coming in at 380 lbs. In fact the total shipping weight was 420 lbs wit the crate and heavy duty boxes.

Thanks for all the info on this thread.


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## jeffski1 (Nov 29, 2008)

when you have more mileage on your new PM 1000 you should do a review-congrats on your new purchase…


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## NiteWalker (May 7, 2011)

Thanks for the update. I may add this to my list of contenders.


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

castlerockwood, congrats on your new saw. I'm definitely interested in seeing a review when you've had a chance to put it through it's paces…


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

This is uncharted territory…how about a whole bunch of pics?


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## castlerockwood (Aug 31, 2013)

Hi everyone. Knotscott, here are a couple of pics of my new PM 1000. I've only had the opportunity to run about a dozen rips through the saw with hard maple. The saw did not bog at all and the fence is as true as it can be. Not one burn mark or hesitation. I'm using a new FOREST WWII blade. I don't know if it's glue ready, but it's close. All in all so far I am very please with the saw. The cabinet, fence and miter gauge is head and shoulders above the SAW STOP that Woodcraft tried to get me to purchase. The blade guard assembly is the best I've seen. While most guards get in the way i am really comfortable leaving this guard on all of the time. I'm even going to mill a new riving knive down to the .079 of the thin kerf so I can keep the guard on when I run my thin kerf blades (I have several frued). It will cost me about $70 but it will be perfect and I can leave the guard on for all saw blades.

I will send more info as I get a few more hours on it. Let me know anyone has questions.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

Thanks for the pics. Great looking shop, complete with sleeping dog! Your cuts should definitely be glue ready if all is well.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

Sharp looking saw.


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## paxorion (Oct 19, 2012)

castlerockwood, thanks for the update. and congratulations on the new saw


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## jeffski1 (Nov 29, 2008)

thanks for the pics…looks like you are going to have fun with your saw…is that a reclining chair i see ?...


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## GT350 (Dec 22, 2012)

Nice looking saw and shop, keep us updated as you use it more.
Mike


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## LenH (Feb 27, 2011)

Hey Castlerockwood, what is the final verdict on the electrics? Did you plug into a 20 amp dedicated circuit? Also what is your thoughts on the dust collection? Tks.


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## castlerockwood (Aug 31, 2013)

LenH,
I have the saw plugged into the dedicated 20amp circuit I had for my other saw. I may switch to 220 later because it's so close to my power panel, but the saw runs fine so I'm not sure yet. It is connected to my shop vac and an Oneida cyclone. It does a decent job, but not great. The only dust I get comes out of the top of the saw if I'm cutting with the blade high. A zero clearance insert will help too. The manual says you need at least 450 CFM for the saw and I suspect that's about right. I'm looking for a small unit like the one Rockler sells that hangs on the wall. The problem is I will pay as much for the Rockler Dust Right as I will a used full sized unit. I only need a dust collector for the table saw and planer (everything else is connected to my Festool) so I didn't want a big unit that takes up a lot of floor space and have to run piping. I'm still looking. In the meantime the Oneida works ok. The big problem I have with the shop vac is the noise. Wow! it is terrible. More to come guys.


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

*I may switch to 220 later because it's so close to my power panel*

here's hoping that PM does everything you expect it to do. you certainly paid enough for it. but wasn't the appeal of the 1000 the 110v operation? seems like with 220v available, a 3 hp cabinet saw would have been a better choice.


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## castlerockwood (Aug 31, 2013)

The appeal was never the 110v operation. Power has never been an issue for me. I can wire to whatever I need when I need it. First and formost, I wanted a quality saw with a good fence and an enclosed cabinet. I never considered a 3hp cabinet saw because it was more than I need. The footprint for the 3hp machines is much larger and they weigh about 200lbs more. Overkill for me. And the cost (even though it's not an issue) is another $1500. I simply don't use the machine hard enough to warrant a 3 hp machine. If I wanted a 3hp machine, I would have the PM 2000.


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## toolie (Mar 16, 2011)

*And the cost (even though it's not an issue) is another $1500. *

love to know where you're getting your pricing info:

http://www.tools-plus.com/powermatic-1791000k.html

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-3HP-220V-Cabinet-Table-Saw-with-Long-Rails-Riving-Knife/G0691

anyhow, enjoy your new saw. you certainly paid for the privilege.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

No bitterness there.


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## AlexB (Jun 2, 2010)

Pricing for the 3HP PM is approx. $1K more than the 1-3/4 PM. Seems wrong to compare the price of a Grizzly with a PM2000. Just my opinion.

http://www.tools-plus.com/powermatic-1792002k.html

Castlerockwood: I'd be interested to hear more about the PM1000 and what your impressions are of it now that you've had it for a bit.

Cheers,
Alex


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## castlerockwood (Aug 31, 2013)

Hi Alex. you're right about the Grizzley comparison with respect to price vs. motor. I was simply comparing based on price. I realize the Grizzley is a full cabinet saw and the PM1000 is a hybrid. And I think everyone will agree it's hard to beat the value of a Grizzley. And that goes for all products, not just the table saws.

I have been using the saw for about 3 months now and have no regrets. I have ripped 1 1/2 hard maple, cherry and pine. All cuts have been perfect with no burn marks. Obviously, cross cuts are never a problem. I will say that even though the Forest WWII blade (standard kerf) cuts well, my thin kerf Frued rip does a better job on thicker boards. But I found that true for the other saws I've owned. That is probably one area where the 3hp model would excel.

My only complaint is the accessories I want, thin kerf riving knife and dado insert, won't be available until 12/31 according to Powermatic. I made a zero clearance insert and and purchased a Micro Jig kerf keeper to get by. I found the Micro Jig is really a good product for zero clearance inserts. The thin kerf is also much quieter, I would have never imagined. I couldn't tell much different with my other saws because they were so noisy.

Again, very pleased with saw. I would buy another PM in a heartbeat. But as many have quoted in the blog, if you're focused on price only the PM is not your choice.


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## runswithscissors (Nov 8, 2012)

If you have some basic tools for cutting metal (my go-to favorite is a 4 1/2" angle grinder with a 1/16" thick steel cutting disk), you can make your own thin kerf riving knife out of 14 gauge steel plate. It's the perfect thickness. Of course you'd need a drill press too, and a jig saw works well for the curved part. For metal cutting, set the orbit function on the jigsaw to "0". You can get an angle grinder at HF for under $15. I use mine all the time, so I like a better quality one, but the cheapie will do the job.


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## AlexB (Jun 2, 2010)

Hi Castlerockwood. Thank you for the information. Honestly the only other TS I've even considered at this time has been the Saw Stop, that is until PM started to offer their PM1000.

Thank you again for the great information. I'll definitely be giving the PM1000 a good look over next time I am at the stores.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

I resurrected this thread to post the exploded parts pictorial of the PM1000 to help clarify it's classification of hybrid vs cabinet saw. Since those classifications really have no standard definition, it can be claimed as either, but from the pics below, it's clearly not a PM2000 with a smaller motor or industrial type cabinet saws like the Unisaw & clones - Jet Exacta, Griz 1023, G0690, Laguna Platinum, Baleigh, Steel City, SS ICS, and others. It's not identical, but looks to me to be closer in design to the Jet Proshop hybrid than the PM2000 or Xacta type saws. Particularly, the trunnion brackets show the most dramatic difference between the top two pics (Pm1000 & Proshop) and the bottom two pics (PM2000 & Xacta).

*PM1000:*









Jet Proshop:









*PM2000:*









*Jet Xacta:*


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