# question about drying a stump before carving



## metroplexchl

I saw a man cut a stump and then use hand tools to carve a large bowl. It's obviously time lapsed, but can one just grab a newly cut stump or log and start carving it? Or do you have to let it dry out for a while first? I fear that cutting a bowl out a newly cut log would cause the bowl to split or crack once it dried.


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## GR8HUNTER

most logs will crack …if not all …:<))


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## Loren

In that sort of application you really have
to remove most of the wood from the
form while still green. Then it is left to
dry out and brought to final shape when
dry.

The reason is that the outside of a log
shrinks as it dries and it is forced against
the inside layers which won't compress
enough for the outside to resist cracking.


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## metroplexchl

> In that sort of application you really have
> to remove most of the wood from the
> form while still green. Then it is left to
> dry out and brought to final shape when
> dry.
> 
> The reason is that the outside of a log
> shrinks as it dries and it is forced against
> the inside layers which won t compress
> enough for the outside to resist cracking.


excellent explanation. So is it better to wait until the entire log or stump is dry and then make the bowl….or mke it while green and then dry it?

chris


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## Loren

It will crack badly if the center is not mostly
removed early after it is cut from the tree.
So make the bowl while green. You can
wait until it is dry and remove more material
if you want. Dry and green wood work
very differently.


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## Wildwood

Rough carving green wood to a uniform thickness say 1" will allow the wood to dry in a couple months and ready for final carving.

Lot depends upon diameter of a stump, wood species, style or design, and removing the pith. Close grain dense wood dries slower than open grain wood.

So splitting the stump in half, removing the pith with chain saw or craving it away beofore carving will reduce splitting or craking.

Wood turners do this all the time.


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## mike02130

Google


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## metroplexchl

> Google
> 
> - mike02130


i tried putting the OP in google and no one answered. 

SO I thought I'd try asking a real people who more likely had actual experience in this area instead of sifting through the mountain of mis-information trying to decipher what was accurate.

Thanks for the helpful reply though!

chris


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## mike02130

I'm guessing you still didn't Google? Try "bowl carving". Top of the list is David Fisher. No "mountain". Just cuz I say it, doesn't mean others don't think it. Figure it out is some damn good advice.


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## metroplexchl

Fair point. I wonder how someone would learn something they don't know anything about? Answer = ask those that do. Maybe instead of "google", you could have led with "try bowl carving. Top of the list is David Fisher."

I couldn't care less what others are thinking. Just trying to learn. I hope this forum isn't one of those unwelcoming places where people can't ask questions from practiced amateurs and professionals.

"Figuring it out" is what this forum is for. People that suggest google holds all the answers are the same people that say, "Where did you hear that? The internet?!!! You should have asked someone that actually knows what they're talking about!"

night all,

chris


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## Wildwood

Never heard of David Fisher, mostly turn wood so looked him up he has a great web site with lots of info.

http://www.davidffisher.com/the_process

While have watch demo of this being done before really enjoyed his video and no sandpaper used. Wish could get an off the tool finish with my wood turned bowls.

http://www.davidffisher.com/video_from_log_to_wooden_bowl

metrophexchl, moisture content of newly felled tree can vary with the seasons. Talking about sap running and sap not runnig unless have very expensive moisture meter will not even get a ball park reading. Still have to end seal to prevent end checking or start carving right away and take the risk of splitting. End sealing slows down the drying/shrinking process a little but won't stop it. Logs will lose moisture from end of logs much faster than thru sides that is why end sealing is important. Wood dries from the outside in basically from evaporation.

Splitting a log and removingg the pith helps dry logs little faster because reducing amount of wood needing drying.

Three ways hobbist can measure moisture content are by feel, weighing on a scale or moisture meter.

If you take on this challenge wish you good luck!


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## metroplexchl

> Never heard of David Fisher, mostly turn wood so looked him up he has a great web site with lots of info.
> 
> http://www.davidffisher.com/the_process
> 
> While have watch demo of this being done before really enjoyed his video and no sandpaper used. Wish could get an off the tool finish with my wood turned bowls.
> 
> http://www.davidffisher.com/video_from_log_to_wooden_bowl
> 
> metrophexchl, moisture content of newly felled tree can vary with the seasons. Talking about sap running and sap not runnig unless have very expensive moisture meter will not even get a ball park reading. Still have to end seal to prevent end checking or start carving right away and take the risk of splitting. End sealing slows down the drying/shrinking process a little but won't stop it. Logs will lose moisture from end of logs much faster than thru sides that is why end sealing is important. Wood dries from the outside in basically from evaporation.
> 
> Splitting a log and removingg the pith helps dry logs little faster because reducing amount of wood needing drying.
> 
> Three ways hobbist can measure moisture content are by feel, weighing on a scale or moisture meter.
> 
> If you take on this challenge wish you good luck!
> 
> - Wildwood


Wow. great info. I never would have imagined that there was enough moisture n wood that you could actually weigh it to determine differences in moisture content. Look forward to checking out those websites.


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## Wildwood

People use anything from bathroom scales to kitchen and postal scales to weigh wood. When wood stops gaining and losing moisture said to be at EMC or equilibrium moisture content with its environment.

So rough carving when it's wet or green makes life easier, but have to wait for rough carved blank to reach EMC is for final carving.

Like posted earlier most moisture meters useless on freshly felled tree due to high moisture content but okay after log reaches fiber stautration point (FSP) or about 28 to 30 % MC for ball park readings.

Like lot of wood turners and guess carvers going by feeing the weight of a blank is good enough. That's what I still do even though have a MM now.

Just remember sap and heart wood moisture content can and does differ when planning carving you bowl. Loren kind of hit upon outside layers of wood (sap wood) dry faster than inner wood (heart wood) and of course this can vary by species and hard or soft wood. Has a lot to with wood dimensional stability or thing that cause cracking, splitting or bowl going oval. There are technical terms use to describe all this but that hard to explain.


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## metroplexchl

> People use anything from bathroom scales to kitchen and postal scales to weigh wood. When wood stops gaining and losing moisture said to be at EMC or equilibrium moisture content with its environment.
> 
> So rough carving when it's wet or green makes life easier, but have to wait for rough carved blank to reach EMC is for final carving.
> 
> Like posted earlier most moisture meters useless on freshly felled tree due to high moisture content but okay after log reaches fiber stautration point (FSP) or about 28 to 30 % MC for ball park readings.
> 
> Like lot of wood turners and guess carvers going by feeing the weight of a blank is good enough. That's what I still do even though have a MM now.
> 
> Just remember sap and heart wood moisture content can and does differ when planning carving you bowl. Loren kind of hit upon outside layers of wood (sap wood) dry faster than inner wood (heart wood) and of course this can vary by species and hard or soft wood. Has a lot to with wood dimensional stability or thing that cause cracking, splitting or bowl going oval. There are technical terms use to describe all this but that hard to explain.
> 
> - Wildwood


Wow again. Thank you. I'll start the rough carving and then let them dry until the reach EMC!


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## Karda

try searching utube there is a wealth of information there


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## jacww

Add to your Google search "green woodworking".

Names to look at along with David Fisher:

Peter Follansbee
John/Jennie Alexander
Robin Wood
JoJo Wood

These individuals make things from fresh cut trees, split and rived to usable stock. They make chairs (John/Jennie), spoons, small bowls etc. You should also find links to other green woodworkers that may have blogs, videos,etc. that can help you too.

Most traditional Windsor chair makers use green wood as well. There is lots of information out there about the advantages of using green/wet wood appropriately.

Wildwood is right, get the stump hollowed out and close to the desired size and thickness sooner rather than later. If you need to wait, seal the cut ends and do not remove the bark to slow down the drying process.

Good luck.

TonyC


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## ClaudeF

I didn't see it mentioned earlier, but the general rule of thumb is that it takes 1 year per inch of thickness for the wood to dry enough to read the equilibrium point. So…a two foot thick stump, split in half will take 12 years… This is another reason to rough the bowl while green to maybe one inch thickness, then come back after 6 months to a year and finish it. BTW, best to leave outside in a covered area out of the sun/rain/etc. If brought inside, the heat and lower humidity inside will cause the wood to dry too quickly and likely crack.

Claude


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## OSU55

I make bowls on a lathe from green wood, same basic process. Initial wall thickness about 10% of dia. I prefer to dry mine indoors where the temp and humidity are controlled. Brown kraft paper is used as a vapor barrier to slow the drying process, either a heavy brown paper sack or the heavy painter guard stuff on 3ft wide rolls at the bbs. Usually throw in several handfuls of wet chips. Weigh the wrapped piece, write it on the paper and re-weigh whenever. Dry when weight stops changing. 4-8 weeks usually, but hand carved pieces with thick end sections or something will take longer.


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## PPK

> I didn t see it mentioned earlier, but the general rule of thumb is that it takes 1 year per inch of thickness for the wood to dry enough to read the equilibrium point. So…a two foot thick stump, split in half will take 12 years… This is another reason to rough the bowl while green to maybe one inch thickness, then come back after 6 months to a year and finish it. BTW, best to leave outside in a covered area out of the sun/rain/etc. If brought inside, the heat and lower humidity inside will cause the wood to dry too quickly and likely crack.
> 
> Claude
> 
> - ClaudeF


Yeah I've heard this too… but I have not found it to be true. It won't take a log 12 years to dry  However it does take along time… I've dried logs that are 4" dia in less than 2 years, just letting them sit in my shop… I suppose there are a million variables.


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