# Forget it!



## Carloz (Oct 12, 2016)

Every other post here is an attempt to somehow move ones hobby to business. Unfortunately hay days of woodworking (as well as any other manual labor) are long gone. It takes years to master tecnique and thousands in equipment to make acceptable furniture for example and you harly be above minimal wage. At the same time a retired lady takes 2 days real estate course, sell one house a year and still will make more than you doing hard labor everyday all year long.
Let the hobby stay where it is and make money trading stocks.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Two day's?


> ?


???

How do u get a real estate license?

Requirements to Obtain Your California Salesperson License.
Must be at least 18 years of age.
Register for and complete 135 hours of required education.
Apply for your Salesperson Exam/License Application, including fingerprinting and background check.
Take the California Salesperson License Exam.

Sometimes I worry about you.


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## richardchaos (May 12, 2017)

I am afraid you are correct. To make any money that you can live on doing this I have found a couple of things you need in your life.. You have to live in or near a big city… You have to be injected into peoples lives that have the money and the appreciation of fine things.

They have been saying for decades it doesn't mater where you are the Internet is erasing geographic issue… IN MY ARSE!

One of my neighbors where I lived in to Artist community was best friends with The Guy that started ran owned DELL COMPUTERS in Austin Texas. Mike Dell. Back in those days, The Bill Clinton dye EVERYONE was fat! Everyone had money. And HE Poured money of my friend Dick Hedgepath. Those day are over.

I have no answers. You can make some money doing this hobby but don't quit your day job.

ALSO I have no idea how some of these woodworkers affairs CNC machines



> Every other post here is an attempt to somehow move ones hobby to business. Unfortunately hay days of woodworking (as well as any other manual labor) are long gone. It takes years to master tecnique and thousands in equipment to make acceptable furniture for example and you harly be above minimal wage. At the same time a retired lady takes 2 days real estate course, sell one house a year and still will make more than you doing hard labor everyday all year long.
> Let the hobby stay where it is and make money trading stocks.
> 
> - Carloz


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

That damn box has destroyed many a woodworking career.

I left it (the box) years ago and managed to eek out a better than decent living from it. I have zero doubt I could do even better in this day and age.

My key to success was abandoning the all-or-nothing attitude and approach. Instead, I became willing to step outside the shop and look at bigger pictures, like fence and deck maintenance and repair. Hey, it's still woodwork, just a different kind of "glamor."

Doing those things, I took different approaches that most. For example, I shared every secret I had with my customers. Only one in three hundred would use any of them. The information would, often, inundate the customer and all they'd remember is, "that guy knows a lot about woodwork AND taking care of it after it's built. In the end, if their fence or deck looked and held up better, I looked better.

While I was working a deck or fence, I took advantage of opportunities. If pressure washing a deck, I pointed out that fence could be cleaned too, and applications of non-hardening oils would help reduce shrinking that caused splitting and cracking, in addition to giving the gray wood a gold tone. 
to push nicer railing or whatever.

If I was applying the oil to the fence, I would explain my home made formula and how it could be applied with a simple garden sprayer, if it was thinned.

In the course of conversations, the matter of a broken baluster or a look chair rung often came up, and I made it clear I was willing to do repairs.

People presume much from just a little information. To many, that I was able to make a cabinet meant I must be able to frame a shed or whatever. If I was up to the task, I'd do it.

Of course, there were always those "can you fix my door," "redo my cabinets and so on.

I kept busy enough I was able to say no to my "I hate to do that" jobs, like roofing and concrete. However, if I was hungry, I did do a small patch or two. In the end, one thing leads to another and I became more and more able to cherry pick my jobs.

Too, and this is HUGE, I got to buy a LOT of nice toys. Today, I have a nice cabinet saw, band saw, over-arm router, carver, edge, spindle and other sanders and so on. I can route and polish an edge on a round I made for a planter stand, glass etch a door window, repair a stained or leaded glass lamp, turn a leg [or what have you].

In general, I do not suffer from boredom.

The pictures are of a farm house. The guy wanted new cabinets. I explained that his fairly stout plywood beasts could be made beautiful. I ran oak through the bandsaw to make new 3/8" thick rails and styles to lay over the existing ones, added end panels, then "threw on matching doors."

Doing the job gave me an opportunity to to get creative and solve problems. His huge fridge cabinet has a 30" lazy Susan. The Soffit over the stove opens and can hide a favorite musket, for example. In the end, that one job gave me several more over the years.


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## PPK (Mar 8, 2016)

> Every other post here is an attempt to somehow move ones hobby to business. Unfortunately hay days of woodworking (as well as any other manual labor) are long gone. It takes years to master tecnique and thousands in equipment to make acceptable furniture for example and you harly be above minimal wage. At the same time a retired lady takes 2 days real estate course, sell one house a year and still will make more than you doing hard labor everyday all year long.
> Let the hobby stay where it is and make money trading stocks.
> 
> - Carloz


The way you said that could incite people to get a little defensive…

I agree to some point, but at the same time, I completely disagree. Any line of work takes a lot of WORK to get good at, and consistently make good returns… And further, there's the whole bit about doing something that you love/enjoy. It aint all about makin money! If you make enough to support yourself/your family, then the next thing is… well, check out the good 'ol Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs…


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## Puzzleman (May 4, 2010)

I started out as a hobby in my basement. Enjoyed doing the work and making small sales at local craft shows.

Then the company I was working for was going to go out of business. 
So I took the plunge into making puzzles full time. 
was it easy? NO
Was it fun 100% of the time? NO
Did I get a paycheck for the first 3 years? NO

I did have grit and determination and a willingness to learn sales, business and more woodworking from others that wanted to help me succeed. I had to pivot many a time and do many different things to keep the dream alive of being my own boss. I have a background in production management through the jobs that I had, so maybe that helped me succeed.

Now it is 15 years later and I have a small company that has 10 full time and 4 part-time employees. 
All of this from making puzzles.

In any business, there are a number of them that didn't make it. All we hear about is the winners who survived and became big businesses. Don't hear as much about the ones who didn't succeed but went a different direction and then eventually succeeded or never was able to do it.

Running your own business takes a lot of different hats. You have to not only make high-quality product, you have to do it efficiently to keep costs done, you have to market and be a salesperson to keep sales up, you have to understand and be able to keep up with cash flow so you have money, you have to go down a lot of paths that do not always work out and you have to do all this at the same time.

Going full time is not for everyone. Not everyone is going to make it. 
Just because you couldn't be successful, don't discourage others.
Don't be a person who tears things down but rather is a cheerleader for those who want to try.
If someone wants to try, let them. Help them learn from your experience so they don't have to take so many wrong turns but most of all, be encouraging. It is a scary decision to make and it is full of challenges. Don't tear someone's dream apart because it didn't work for you. Different people do things differently.

Maybe part of my problem is that I am a glass half full type of person. I refuse to tell people that they can't do things that may help them improve their lot in life. I try to help by talking with them about my experiences and hopefully they can use that to help them in their endeavors.

Apologize for the length but this is a sensitive topic for me.


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## Gilley23 (May 9, 2017)

> Going full time is not for everyone. Not everyone is going to make it.
> Just because you couldn t be successful, don t discourage others.
> Don t be a person who tears things down but rather is a cheerleader for those who want to try.
> If someone wants to try, let them. Help them learn from your experience so they don t have to take so many wrong turns but most of all, be encouraging. It is a scary decision to make and it is full of challenges. Don t tear someone s dream apart because it didn t work for you. Different people do things differently.
> ...


Perfectly said, Sir. Thank you for taking the time to do so. Your attitude is what separates the winners from the losers.


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

When I started making guitars in 2008, I pretty much stunk up the place. Eleven guitars in, I sold my first one.
Long story short, by 2013 making guitars as fast as I could, I had not one, but two people ask me that year if I was interested in having them market them for me, lending me the money to go full time, and hit the big leagues in making a firm set of styles and selling guitars.
I politely declined both, since I always wanted it to stay part-time.
But, if you are good enough, and have enough stamina to keep at it, pay your dues, so to speak, you can make a living at woodworking. Just ask Greg Klassen, the fellow who makes the river tables that sell for thousands of dollars, or Puzzleman, who is obviously successful.

There are a lot of these types out there, plus, to be honest, good craftspeople are disappearing and in great demand. Ever try to get a decent plumber, electrician, or finish carpenter?


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Every other post here is an attempt to somehow move ones hobby to business. Unfortunately hay days of woodworking (as well as any other manual labor) are long gone. It takes years to master tecnique and thousands in equipment to make acceptable furniture for example and you harly be above minimal wage. At the same time a retired lady takes 2 days real estate course, sell one house a year and still will make more than you doing hard labor everyday all year long.
> Let the hobby stay where it is and make money trading stocks.
> 
> - Carloz


Do you ever say anything that's positive?


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## rbrjr1 (Nov 2, 2017)

lol. 
I work with wood because I love it and it saves me from hiring the people you're talking about (those who do this for a living).

I don't really see it the same way you do, but I'm generally happy and enjoy my life.


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## DS (Oct 10, 2011)

There's nothing like being involuntarily self-employed (read unemployed) to motivate one to turn a hobby into a profession. It worked for me during the last downturn in the economy. I not only eked out a decent living, but, increased my income by almost double for 11 months that year before finding the job I was looking for.

Aside from working myself senseless, the main downside is that my hobby wasn't nearly as enjoyable for a while after that.

You have to make decisions based on your business objectives which takes a bit more thinking and will power to work smarter rather than harder. Outsourcing was my good friend during that time and I was able to put out a considerably higher volume of products than I could've imagined if I were doing everything by myself in my garage. That was very necessary since I was quite accustomed to a steady ration of food to eat each day along with a roof over my head.

I must confess, that my history making a living in woodworking made this transition fairly painless for me. If it were twenty or thirty years earlier, I likely would've struggled to make a go of it. There is something to be said for experience and lessons learned the hard way. I already had a good reputation among my clients which was extremely helpful landing projects.


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## CharlesNeil (Oct 21, 2007)

Woodworking has treated me well,
One important lesson, learned early on was marketing not only your products but yourself .is essential. Clients who are willing to pay well for products want them made " by someone" with a name. 
Many hobbyist are excellent woodworkers, but no one knows them,.For every hour you spend in the shop , you need to spend at least 1/2 of that , doing shows and whatever you can do to get your name out in front of people , its not easy and takes a lot of time and effort .

Reputation and word of mouth are key .


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## diverlloyd (Apr 25, 2013)

> Every other post here is an attempt to somehow move ones hobby to business. Unfortunately hay days of woodworking (as well as any other manual labor) are long gone. It takes years to master tecnique and thousands in equipment to make acceptable furniture for example and you harly be above minimal wage. At the same time a retired lady takes 2 days real estate course, sell one house a year and still will make more than you doing hard labor everyday all year long.
> Let the hobby stay where it is and make money trading stocks.
> 
> - Carloz
> ...


 Nope


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## richardchaos (May 12, 2017)

It cant be done… sort of like this…


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## HowardInToronto (Sep 27, 2013)

Interesting thread.

Lots of valuable info here.

I think Jim Puzzleman nailed it with his most important observation - ".... Just because you couldn't be successful, don't discourage others….. Don't tear someone's dream apart because it didn't work for you."

I feel the OP's argument has a lot of holes in it.

Don't assume every woodworker is a furniture maker. Just ask Jim Puzzleman. Or maybe check in with the canoe and kayak makers, the luthiers, the chairmakers and the stair makers….

The remark about a retired lady selling one house a year seemed kind of insulting. Are you suggesting she only sells one house a year because that's all she cares to do? That doesn't sound right. Because there's lots of hard frustrating work and plenty to learn in any new business - regardless of anybody's motivation. And, quite frankly, I'd think selling one house after the first year is probably a massive victory.

Also, I'm not so sure the hay days of this "manual labour" are gone. Maybe you should ask some of the pros who've been in this business for a few decades and are doing just fine - regardless of economic climate. They took the time to do the right things well. Just ask Charles Neil.

You seem to think only in terms of dollars and cents. That's fine. Everybody has the right to think their own way. But if everyone worked only for the dollars, we'd all be plastic surgeons in Hollywood.

Why SHOULDN'T somebody take a chance on themselves doing a skill they love and learn how to manage it as a job. Where's the value in staying at what might be a soul-killing job whose only saving grace is that it provides a paycheque?

Please DO NOT get me wrong - I'm not suggesting jumping off the dock straightaway. As long as somebody does have the firm footing of a job beneath them, there's a lot of value in starting part-time, small and acquiring skills with the option of scaling up if that's what they care to do as time, energy and interest permit.

My Pa used to say that it's better to light a candle than curse the darkness.

Howard


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

1+ what Charles said


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

I live in what could be said to be a retirement community, for the number of people who flock to it from the wetter regions of the state. I know of two or three handymen working here. Without pushing, I frequently am asked to do wood projects (I cherry pick because I am retired). If I were to advertise, it would be no problem clearing enough to make a very respectable living here.

Projects I've done include, but are not limited to building custom cabinets, building custom stairs and steps, repairing furniture, make custom picture frames, reface kitchen cabinets (photos above), make signs, turn replacement pieces for collectables, . . . .

Not all woodwork is glamorous, but neither is, in my opinion, building the same chair over (or whatever) and over.


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## mojapitt (Dec 31, 2011)

What Kelly said is very accurate. Many people think that they can build what they want and people should buy it. You're there to make what the customer wants and do it like it's your favorite piece.


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## skatefriday (May 5, 2014)

> lol.
> I work with wood because I love it and it saves me from hiring the people you re talking about (those who do this for a living).
> 
> I don t really see it the same way you do, but I m generally happy and enjoy my life.
> ...


^^^^ This.

I made my kitchen cabinets largely because when I was talking to cabinet makers about the job I got 5 different stories from 5 different makers. So I figured I'd just do it myself. Three years later I have beautiful cabinets and I realize now what they were doing. Each cabinet maker has his own production setup and so wants to sell that production setup and will tell you that's the best production setup. For the customer this is just confusing. If I was going to educate myself on my own I figured I might as well just build them.

Took longer than I expected, but I'm pleased with the result.

BTW, I have 404 posts and not one of them has described any intention or desire to turn pro. Not gonna happen, and I've had people ask me to build them cabinets. But I have no desire to do this commercially.


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

> Every other post here is an attempt to somehow move ones hobby to business.


happen to notice the title of the forum?

making woodworking a profession isnt for the weak of heart.
it would really suck if the likes of nakashima, maloof,chippendale,and roentgens didnt persevere


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## jcsterling (Aug 1, 2008)

It is not an easy path to build a reputation and following. However, it certainly can be done. I can attest to the fact that you need to build relationships and sell youself as well as your work. I have traveled to many shows and while not all shows perform well for large scale work you plant a lot of seeds. Lots of people need to see you multiple times to be assured you are the real deal. Once you get that order and deliver a piece that meets and hopefully exceeds their expectations you become thrir " go to guy." I still do about 8 shows a year which can be a drag but it has worked for me…...one other thing, ya gotta charge what its worth or you might as well forget trying to make a living.


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## jeffswildwood (Dec 26, 2012)

I love wood working and looked forward to retiring from my job and do a lot of it. I'm pure hobbyist but I do take orders and do craft fairs. But when I have multiple orders, the clock is ticking to get them done, and I'm behind wood working loses it's fun. For that reason I don't think I would go pro personally. No time for the "me" projects. I'm sure there are many that would enjoy being pro and would do good at it, just not me.


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## Firewood (Dec 4, 2013)

Lots of interesting thoughts. I very much enjoy woodworking as a hobby and thought about doing craft fairs, etc upon retirement. But in the end, I would rather just make the things I want at my own pace. They are almost always gifts for those I care about. From selecting the wood to applying the finish, I like to think about the person this gift is intended for, and thank God for the gift he has given me through that person.

It is understandable that many turn to their craft to suppliment their income. Some out of true need and some just want enough to sustain their hobby. For those who take the plunge to turn it into a business, i sincerely wish you the best and it works out in your favor. For me, i will keep it a hobby and hope I am never faced with a distain for my hobby due to an overloaded need to meet a schedule.


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## mudflap4869 (May 28, 2014)

I moved to a retirement community when I got out of the Army. No industry here, but lots of wealthy retirees. HONEY DEW was my shtick. I built decks for lakefront mansions, retaining walls on slopes, remodeled houses, painted houses and a great deal of other scutt work. After proving that I could do better work, and on time, I stayed busy until I decided to completely retire in 2004. I still occasionally get requests for special projects. If I feel like taking on the project I will, *BUT*, at my leisure. Latest deal, at almost 70, is that I build a large cutting board for a young lady, and she supplies me with homemade sweet rolls. She makes some of the best I have ever eaten.


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## rbrjr1 (Nov 2, 2017)

> BTW, I have 404 posts and not one of them has described any intention or desire to turn pro. Not gonna happen, and I ve had people ask me to build them cabinets. I have no desire to do this commercially.


I agree completely. I am FAR too inefficient at the projects that I take on to make any money at it.. lol


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## JackDuren (Oct 10, 2015)

> Every other post here is an attempt to somehow move ones hobby to business. Unfortunately hay days of woodworking (as well as any other manual labor) are long gone. It takes years to master tecnique and thousands in equipment to make acceptable furniture for example and you harly be above minimal wage. At the same time a retired lady takes 2 days real estate course, sell one house a year and still will make more than you doing hard labor everyday all year long.
> Let the hobby stay where it is and make money trading stocks.
> 
> - Carloz


It's not for everyone…It was never a hobby for me, but a living from day one July 83…


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## Knockonit (Nov 5, 2017)

Investing in ones self is not for everyone, but those that do and are successful are some of the happiest folks i know.
whiners should be seen and not heard. lol
Rj


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## John Smith_inFL (Dec 15, 2017)

well - my "hobby" bought me three new vehicles and a new home
and a 2500 sq.ft. workshop…... it's all how you apply yourself,
set your goals, and how you want to live your life.
- I have no complaints -


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

My workshop is only eighteen hundred square feet, but is one hundred percent hobby, NOW. It, all it's contents, the food I eat, the roof over my head and so on are complements of, well, the same thing that feeds and cloths thousands of others - woodwork (and things that play well with it).

Up to this point, I got to do what I enjoyed, with a few scrapes, bumps and bruises and a whole lot of sweat.

Key remains, don't be of such a small mind all you can think of doing is cabinets or furniture. If those are your limits, flip burgers and draw food stamps.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Another escapee (from the box):



> I moved to a retirement community when I got out of the Army. No industry here, but lots of wealthy retirees. HONEY DEW was my shtick. I built decks for lakefront mansions, retaining walls on slopes, remodeled houses, painted houses and a great deal of other scutt work. After proving that I could do better work, and on time, I stayed busy until I decided to completely retire in 2004. I still occasionally get requests for special projects. If I feel like taking on the project I will, *BUT*, at my leisure. Latest deal, at almost 70, is that I build a large cutting board for a young lady, and she supplies me with homemade sweet rolls. She makes some of the best I have ever eaten.
> 
> - mudflap4869


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

I take issue with Carloz's very first statement. I only see a few posts from people who either plan to turn pro or are encouraging others to do so. I also take issue with his assumption that everyone is either hobbyist or pro. I do some work for money but I am retired and want to stay that way. I have to turn down business from time to time to keep from getting to many commitments to enjoy life. Based on my experience so far, I could probably earn a meager living if I wanted to push it.


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## John Smith_inFL (Dec 15, 2017)

if you are a hobbyist, that is very fine with me. (I used to be one).
if you are a professional in your trade, and you are successful, that is awesome.
if you want to make the transition from amateur to professional, I will help you if you ask.
but in no way will I ever insist or pressure anyone to be what they don't want to be.
this is a very small world, each of us only has a number of days to be on this Earth.
there are way more important things to be doing than squabbling over piddly stuff.


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## wkndwrnch (Nov 30, 2011)

I was encouraged by what Kelly had to say." My key to success was abandoning the all-or-nothing attitude and approach. Instead, I became willing to step outside the shop and look at bigger pictures, like fence and deck maintenance and repair. Hey, it's still woodwork, just a different kind of "glamor."
I have done many odd jobs to further the customer relation,and grow my customer base. I now have repeat customers,and I do a variety of "woodworking jobs" I truly enjoy them all,and the time I am working for myself.


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## jimintx (Jan 23, 2014)

I think this woodworking thing might be more rewarding than becoming an Uber driver, though.


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## alittleoff (Nov 27, 2014)

I build lots of different things, an spend lots of money doing it. I do it all for fun. I've had people stop buy my shop and ask what I would charge them to build something. After making an estimated guess at just the material cost, i usually get that look. You know, the one that says that's to expensive. Now i tell everyone I just don't do work for the public. I build things for myself, kids, and sometime i give an item away when someone that seems to be a nice person stops by and ask if its for sale. I really like to build unusual yard items but can't seem to find the time for much now. As for the business part, people don't ever think that someone working in a shop has any expenses. It's as if you should work for them for nothing. I had a lady one time ask me if I could look around and find some scrap wood to build her something. The material or wood have cost 25.00 new but she thought it would be free if I drove around to look for scrap lumber. People are funny when it comes to money. Good luck to anyone who makes a living doing woodwork. You deserve a lot of credit, because I know you worked hard getting there.
Gerald


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

For me, my "hobby" has turned into a really nice retirement business. The one where you don't expect to pay your bills with it, but nice folding money in the retirement years.
This year, doing no carnivals, festivals or any of that stuff, (I refuse to stand under a folding tent for 10-12 hours with a phone that takes credit cards), I almost hit five digits in sales.
And I gave up building the guitars last January 1st.

Etsy store, one museum gallery store, one art gallery that features all kinds of art, and stringed musical instrument repair. Occasional special request, but few and far between. Usually work the mornings, occasional half-afternoon, sometimes Saturday morning if I'm bored, some days not at all but not many. No Sundays.
My only complaint is coming into the holidays, I have to super stock the galleries and my Etsy store since I will sell a lot, and that makes those last three months too much like real work.

End of December and January, I get to concentrate on learning new things to make new products to sell the following year. I could do worse in retirement.

Oh, and John said he has a 2500 sq. workplace, Kelly said 1800 sq feet…How about 340 sq. feet, and it is divided into two rooms, not connected? At least it is real easy to heat!

I've never tried to pay my bills with this little enterprise, but for years and years, even before I retired, it was nice to have that extra folding money…and yes, I do pay my local, state and federal taxes, and keep insurance.
A person could do worse…


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## pontic (Sep 25, 2016)

There will be a resurgence of craftsmen in this country. The age of disposable is on its way out with the environmental group. The new direction the "This old House " people are going is trying to recruit and present the skilled trades as a dying resource and in more demand than ever. Their apprentice spotlight shows are showing success. 
Selling violent video games to minors is being challenged in the supreme court as we speak. There is an amendment proposal being drafted in the house if this fails. The age of child violent video games and all night video playing are going away.Good for the Puzzle guy.
If you are persistant and a good business person you will achieve success to some degree in what you do.
I do large wood sculptures and entry ways for commercial customers. Mostly thru Architects. Average one every two years. They are a real pain, tight schedule, plan modifications and other hassels. Charge accordingly. 
Retrofit projects are the worst. Those are when they don't take my proposal and go with someone else then decide they don't like it or it's not made right. Those I usually have to do at night and they want it done yesterday.
They pay more for that.
Then they want my drawings when it says in the contract specifically that they are my property. They only get copies. All for about the average of 15K per project. Not hardly enough to pay the higher tax rate I'm now in.


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## John Smith_inFL (Dec 15, 2017)

ALL you guys have valid points of where you are in life and what you expect of your hobby or business.
your personal level of involvement is nobody's business but your own. 
Please do not take offense if someone else sees their's differently.
the most profound statement that I saw here was when Pontic said;

*The new direction the "This old House " people are going is trying to recruit and present
the skilled trades as a dying resource and in more demand than ever.*

there probably has never been a more accurate post on the net in a very long time.
in the signmaking/woodworking world that I live in, we have a motto: Learn one - do one - Teach one.
I have been addicted to the home improvement TV shows since Steve Thomas and Norm Abram started in 1989.
After I became a successful artisan, I overcame my "selfish attitude" to keep all my trade secrets close 
to my vest until I die philosophy and now openly share the "tricks of the trade" with whoever wants to learn.
regardless of your age or status, it would be so nice to turn a new page for 2018 and we all share our 
skills and knowledge with those who want to learn. This forum is an excellent platform for doing just that !!!
I am afraid that some day the woodworking tools that our forefathers and ourselves use will only be seen in museums.
Keep up the good work !!

Happy New Year to everyone,
Johnny


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## Gene01 (Jan 5, 2009)

> BTW, I have 404 posts and not one of them has described any intention or desire to turn pro. Not gonna happen, and I ve had people ask me to build them cabinets. I have no desire to do this commercially.
> 
> I agree completely. I am FAR too inefficient at the projects that I take on to make any money at it.. lol
> 
> - rbrjr1


A big DITTO. Add that I'm pretty lazy, as well.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

This turned into an interesting thread. I am glad that woodworking is a hobby for me. I do respect those who have turned it into a profitable business. It is not easy to do.

For too long, a college education has been preached as the only way. I think the trades suffer. I had a leaking hose underneath a sink yesterday and fixed it. I wonder how many of the younger generation could do something that simple. Most would likely get on their phone and pay a plumber $100 to do it. There will always be a place for the trades and they pay pretty well. We need to encourage the younger generation to look at options other than college and make an informed choice. I am not opposed to college but just think there are other good choices.

When I was a kid, everyone wanted to work on a car or build something. Today, I wonder how many young kids have used a wrench or hammer. It's such a different time.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

I turned down the same road decades ago, when I worked for the feds, in the electronics field (civilian working for the Dept. Navy)). I was and am a habitual note taker. I might even confess to having notes about my notes. That aside, many of notes are quite detailed and some became government repair manuals, or sections of them.

When I was at the bottom of the food chain (WG5), I noted many of the electronics and other mechanics kept information about their jogs secret, even when those around them were floundering, to make themselves look better.

Through a series of circumstances (punishment?), I ended up in charge of repairing a little beast called a Mark 6 Dummy Director. As usual, I took notes. They allowed me to never lose an important thought.

As often happens, many of the problems encountered, repairing the Mk6, repeated and existed because of a cause which happened previously. The notes made catching the solution much easier.

A couple people were sent to help me when the work load increased. To make things easier, I copied my notes and shared the entire book. An interesting thing happened because of that - we all looked good.

Others, in other repair areas, continued to hoard their secrets and their sections continued to perform dismally.

Clearly, many, if not most here, recognize the merit of lifting those around you, because more problems introduced here get addressed and solved than don't.
And happy new year backatcha



> [A]fter I became a successful artisan, I overcame my "selfish attitude" to keep all my trade secrets close
> to my vest until I die philosophy and now openly share the "tricks of the trade" with whoever wants to learn.
> regardless of your age or status, it would be so nice to turn a new page for 2018 and we all share our
> skills and knowledge with those who want to learn. This forum is an excellent platform for doing just that !!!
> ...


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## pontic (Sep 25, 2016)

I have tried to do my share of giving back. Some of the young kids (18-26) I'v hired to help me from time to time, were inspired to go into woodworking. I Got one of the Local churches to donate an old storage building. One summer we renovated it with electric upgrade and insulation and a large double door. I donated my old Delta contractor's saw a router table and some clamps. Others donated other things like a chop saw and a 14" band saw. I would go there twice a week for 4-5 hrs. Helping them with their projects. Mostly work for the church at first then other projects would crop up. The church Maint. Person took over the supervision and soon the older ones were off and running doing custom interior work for churches and professional offices in the African American Community. Only one had the talent and interest in carving and sculpting he still comes by my shop to compare notes and get me to set up a class on some aspect of woodworking at "The Shop" as they call it. 
Most of them came from a background of gangbanging and na'er do well. but now they would rather hang out at the shop and work with wood. Some get jobs as finish carpenters some go back to school but very few go back to what they did before.
Mind you this is a small group of people but if I've done nothing else in this life this would be sufficient.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

> I have tried to do my share of giving back . . .
> 
> - pontic


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## tomsteve (Jan 23, 2015)

> Let the hobby stay where it is and make money trading stocks.
> 
> - Carloz


dont the majority stock traders lose money and quit??


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## John Smith_inFL (Dec 15, 2017)

*I bet these guys wish they had had a HOBBY ...instead of playing in the Stock Market*










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