# Yeah, Dust collection, this is what I am thinking...



## BillyDoubleU (Mar 11, 2017)

Ok guys (and gals), I suppose I will pick up some DC "system" before I get the jointer.

I am in the process of building my benches and got a nice coat of dust even after blowing out the garage. It was late so I had to use the low setting on the blower… either way 

So my wife has asthma and was complaining about the dust. This is for just a bit of work and ripping some pine 23/32" plywood… so nothing crazy…

I told her I could get a DC or some sorts and she suggested I invest in one. It's a 2 car garage but I don't want to wall mount a DC or the cost of a DC worth mounting. I still need to get my electric fixed up as well.

After much reading on here and other places I am looking at the Grizzly G1028z2 as a portable DC which can service 3 machines at once and run on standard 110v outlets at 1 1/2hp stating 1300CFM for $425.










The Delta 50-760 boast similar performance but looks like it may be hard to come by now.










Next I read up on ceiling hanging Air Filtration systems and while I read up on the JET AF-1000 being the "best" at $300 I can get 2 Wen systems for $200. I'd like the Grizzly as I seem to be drawn to their products… They have a few models as well. The Heavy Duty double for $335 down to $170 for a model very similar (same as) the Wen…

But all that I read is that all of these types of ceiling hanging systems are about the same minus paint…




























I like the idea of 2 AF's hanging up scrubbing the air for a price less than 1 of the bigger named companies. I also read that there or 2 camps on this.

Camp 1- continuous use while working and to run for a few hours after working.

Camp 2- only use the AF after work is complete.

So with both of those in use I figured why not also have some simplicity added in, after all, this is all about air exchange right…

Why not 1 or 2 of these bad boys 










I do live in Southern AZ after all and need some moving air 

And after all the work and in between I also take a moment to blow out the space as well with a trusty leaf blower










In my construction days the day wasn't done until the slab was blown out…

So also remember, the only stationary item in my shop will be the Miter Saw station. Everything else is on wheels.

I can park the DC next to the Miter Saw and leave that hooked up and also have hoses running to 2 other machines that will have to be moved from their place of storage anyway.

Thoughts?


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

Concerning the room filters, I have a Jet and like it a lot. I'm not familiar with the others, But you are right that that they are simple. The Jet has three speeds and a remote. It also has a 2-stage filter. The first is essentially a furnace type filter. The second is the 1 um and is sort of like a pleated bag.

Just make sure the others have something like that. The first filter will fill up pretty quickly. But can be easily cleaned by vacuuming in place or taking out an blowing. The inner fine filter stays pretty clean.

As to when to use them, I run it while working (important) and after. The Jet has a timer (1, 2 and 4 hours ?). So that is real handy. I use a Dylos particle counter and I find this filter makes a huge difference.It brings the count down quickly, but it is exponential. Meaning, it drops the most at first and less and less as the amount of dust drops. Though an hour has always brought it down to very near 0.

I see no advantage to waiting until you are finished. Once the dust is in the air, the sooner you run the filter the better. Else the dust just settles on surfaces. So might as well run it while making the dust.

If you haven't yet, you should read up on the information Bill Pentz has put together. I think you'll find info that you could apply outside your shop given you wife's asthma.

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/

Some think he is an alarmist, but he has data to back what he says.

Keep in mind that the CFM rating of most (probably all) DC systems will overstate what you will actually get. This is not because they are misleading, it's just they can only rate what the DC will do by itself. They have no way to know how much ducting etc. you're going to connect to it.

Bill believes you need 1,000 CFM at the tool to have truly effective dust collection, and to get this in a real system, you need 3+ HP. He didn't make this up, so I believe he is correct.

However, as mentioned I use a Dylos particle counter and I only have a shop vac. So yes plenty of fine dust gets in the air, but the room cleaner does a good job. I do wear a respirator while working and until the room filter brings the dust level low.

Even on my shop vac, I use a Dust Deputy cyclone, a bag in the vac, and a HEPA filter in the vac. That way my shop vac actually filters dust and is not a dust pump.

The Grizzly system and any of the other bags systems like this are not ideal because the bags are not real fine filters. Adding a cyclone will help. It is surprising how fine a dust they collect. But, in the end, you still need a 1 um (preferable 0.5 um) to really get the air clean.

A great option is to vent the DC outside if possible. If you don't have to recirculate the air, you don't need to filter it very finely. But of course, you need replacement air. If you live up north, then in the winter that replacement air is going to be very cold. Similarly, since you live in AZ, you're talking very warm air in the summer. Though unless you are using AC in your garage, drawing in outside air is still likely to help cool.

Though honestly, I couldn't possibly work in a garage in southern AZ in the summer. I live in Albuquerque, probably a good 10-15 degrees cooler than you, and that's too hot for me. I lived a year in Phoenix, so I understand hot.

Have a good look at Bill's web site and take care of your wife. Dust is something we all need to be aware of, and it is critical to someone with respiratory issues.


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## ajshobby (Jan 30, 2012)

I have the jet 1 1/2 hp similar to the above and use the wen filter with the super dust deputy. I ended up venting outdoors and the wen is in the corner collecting dust (ba da ding). Also, I have the jet ceiling air filtration. I found keeping the main run under 15' and running the air circulation all the time gets me the best result of keeping the dust to a minimum.

The largest upgrade I made to dust collection however was my Fein vac and running all my smaller tools off it. Sanders, jigsaw, tracksaw, and basically anything that isn't on my jet dust collector.

I also found that I had to modify alot of tools to get the best results. The effort was worth it. So there is a bit more (in my opinion) than just hooking up the tools.

AJ in mpls


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## JBrow (Nov 18, 2015)

BillyDoubleU,

It makes sense to me to collect dust and debris where it is generated and thus keep as much dust out of the air as possible. Therefore adding a dust collector to the shop is a good idea. The difficult-to-overcome problem associated with collecting dust at the tool is that only a portion of the generated dust is collected. The two major factors that affect the efficiency of collecting dust at the tools are the negative air pressure (CFM) generated by the dust collector at the dust port and the effectiveness of the dust hood/shroud at the tool to capture and direct dust into the dust collector.

I believe that the ideal dust collector is one which draws in a high volume of air, maintains that high volume air flow over time, and separates fine dust particles before the dust collector returns air to the shop. A cyclone added to the dust collector is perhaps the best way to protect the filters from clogging and thus extend the time between filter cleaning (filter cleaning can result a fair amount very fine dust being released into the air). A clogged filter will reduce air flow at the tool. A sub-micro filter will do a good job keeping very fine dust, once captured, from being released back into the shop. In the end it is a decision more often than not driven by the budget.

I do not have an air cleaner hanging in my workshop, although one day I may. When that day comes I will make moving a high volume of air, removing very fine particles from the air, and filter cleaning and maintenance my primary requirements.

The leaf blower, like a pair of fans, would probably be very good and economical solutions if work is performed only when the garage doors are open. Otherwise, this constant moving of air would probably keep fine dust air borne, where it can migrate into the house.


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## TungOil (Jan 16, 2017)

JBrow is correct, your primary approach to DC should always be to capture the majority of the dust at the source. The better you are able to do this, the less you will need the other solutions. Skip using fans or leaf blowers, all that will do is put settled dust back into the air.

Everyone wants to start DC design by picking the collector first, but that is backwards. First you need to understand the CFM requirements for the machinery you have (and expect to add), then figure out the pressure drops associated with the hose or ductwork you plan to use to connect to your collector. Once you understand the CFM and pressure drop requirements, you can select the correct dust collector for the job.

check out the very good writeup at www.airhand.com


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## BillyDoubleU (Mar 11, 2017)

Man, in reading some of Bill Pentz's site I'm gonna blow my house up and waste my money on anything less than a 3+ hp system.

In reading the electrical section I'm gonna burn out my motors and start a fire there too…

My cousin is an electrician and I'm gonna have him wire up some 120v and 240v outlets. But now I'm worried about that too :/


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## BillyDoubleU (Mar 11, 2017)

> Concerning the room filters, I have a Jet and like it a lot. I m not familiar with the others, But you are right that that they are simple. The Jet has three speeds and a remote. It also has a 2-stage filter. The first is essentially a furnace type filter. The second is the 1 um and is sort of like a pleated bag.
> 
> Just make sure the others have something like that. The first filter will fill up pretty quickly. But can be easily cleaned by vacuuming in place or taking out an blowing. The inner fine filter stays pretty clean. *I believe they all run a 2 stage filter process.*
> 
> ...


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## BillyDoubleU (Mar 11, 2017)

> BillyDoubleU,
> 
> It makes sense to me to collect dust and debris where it is generated and thus keep as much dust out of the air as possible. Therefore adding a dust collector to the shop is a good idea. The difficult-to-overcome problem associated with collecting dust at the tool is that only a portion of the generated dust is collected. The two major factors that affect the efficiency of collecting dust at the tools are the negative air pressure (CFM) generated by the dust collector at the dust port and the effectiveness of the dust hood/shroud at the tool to capture and direct dust into the dust collector.
> 
> ...


The cyclone added seems like an easy to do thing. I'll have to look more into that.

And yes, the door are always open when the tools are on.


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## BillyDoubleU (Mar 11, 2017)

> JBrow is correct, your primary approach to DC should always be to capture the majority of the dust at the source. The better you are able to do this, the less you will need the other solutions. Skip using fans or leaf blowers, all that will do is put settled dust back into the air. *With open doors and the fans pointed out would it not blow the dust out? That's my thinking at least.*
> 
> Everyone wants to start DC design by picking the collector first, but that is backwards. First you need to understand the CFM requirements for the machinery you have (and expect to add), then figure out the pressure drops associated with the hose or ductwork you plan to use to connect to your collector. Once you understand the CFM and pressure drop requirements, you can select the correct dust collector for the job. *If a 3 hp system is the minimum do the 1, 1 1/2 and 2 hp system provide any help or is this based on the tool only? Which tool produces the most CFM/Pressure drop requirements. Table saw, miter saw or something else like a sander? Either way you'd then have to plan for that tool which should then cover all the others. So like with all power tools… Get the biggest one (you can afford)  *
> 
> ...


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## BillyDoubleU (Mar 11, 2017)

What are the thoughts on 2 Air Filters scrubbing the air?

Or one larger one?

If one exchanges air the air in a 20'x20' shop 8 times an hour and 2 are affordable would they combined exchange twice the amount of air in the same hour?


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

If you're going to have the garage doors open when you work. I'd go with a cyclone and no bag on the DC and just vent it outside.

Also, figure out a way to create cross ventilation and simple draw in a lot of outside air and vent the entire shop. That will do more to keep dust down than running a room filter. But you have to get the airflow correct and you still need to move a lot of air.

However, I'm sure there will still be times you'll work in the shop without doors open etc. When doing that, a room filter is a good thing to have.


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## BillyDoubleU (Mar 11, 2017)

Unfortunately my garage opens to the south and the wind often come from the E/SE so creating a flow would require me to open the back end of the garage but that would lead into the house. I'll have to look into this venting out of the workspace.

I am can usually blow it out and have the wind pick it up and blow it way to the west. Usually… But of course it depends on the time of the year.



> If you re going to have the garage doors open when you work. I d go with a cyclone and no bag on the DC and just vent it outside.
> 
> Also, figure out a way to create cross ventilation and simple draw in a lot of outside air and vent the entire shop. That will do more to keep dust down than running a room filter. But you have to get the airflow correct and you still need to move a lot of air.
> 
> ...


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## BillyDoubleU (Mar 11, 2017)

Grizzly also makes a 3hp mobile DC with with 2 bags, the G1030Z29 that rates 2300 CFM and runs on a 240v. This is around $500. Not a deal breaker but it's around 2'x4' in footprint….

They actually have a few 2 and 3hp DC's but they all run on 240v and they are all at or under $500'ish.

The problem becomes the footprint.

I am gonna have a few 240v outlets installed… Maybe I need another :\

Now looking at these, some have canisters and some have bags…


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

I have three dust collectors and I can tell you, up front, the claim that little Grizzly can tend three tools is the stuff pipe dreams are made of. One of my collectors is a three horse and I refuse to tackle more than one unit at a time. Dust is collected from my table saw at two points and that pushes the three horse, four bag system to the limit.

In the end, games manufacturers play with claims aside, bigger is better. In the end, big is more versatile. It can handle the stationary sanders, the planer or jointer, the band saw or even the sanding station.

. . . and cyclones are my friends. Run a collector and, in short order, the filter(s) are going to load and the efficiency is going to drop. As such, I'll take a little drop up front, since I can hold that level long time.


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## pauljuilleret (Nov 16, 2013)

Look at harbor fright I got an e mail the other day and their 2 H P model was down to $179.00 it is identical to the Grizzly one pictured at the top of this post.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

If your wife has asthma I would suggest you set your sights higher than the first thoughts you expressed. Lots of good advice above, all of which I agree with. DC is extremely underrated bu most folks in terms of importance.


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## EricTwice (Dec 9, 2016)

I find this interesting. Having worked in professional shops since 1980, I know the issues we have with dust and the problems associated with it, but most of the systems used are only marginally effective.

I am setting up a shop. (as soon as the roof is completed) I also will need a dust collection system, although I am leaning toward less things that make noise and more hand work, less sanding more scraping. I think this will help.


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## BillyDoubleU (Mar 11, 2017)

> Look at harbor fright I got an e mail the other day and their 2 H P model was down to $179.00 it is identical to the Grizzly one pictured at the top of this post.
> 
> - pauljuilleret


So this will run on a 110/120v outlet with a 2hp motor?

It's $199 on the website.


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## TungOil (Jan 16, 2017)

> JBrow is correct, your primary approach to DC should always be to capture the majority of the dust at the source. The better you are able to do this, the less you will need the other solutions. Skip using fans or leaf blowers, all that will do is put settled dust back into the air. *With open doors and the fans pointed out would it not blow the dust out? That s my thinking at least.*
> 
> Everyone wants to start DC design by picking the collector first, but that is backwards. First you need to understand the CFM requirements for the machinery you have (and expect to add), then figure out the pressure drops associated with the hose or ductwork you plan to use to connect to your collector. Once you understand the CFM and pressure drop requirements, you can select the correct dust collector for the job. *If a 3 hp system is the minimum do the 1, 1 1/2 and 2 hp system provide any help or is this based on the tool only? Which tool produces the most CFM/Pressure drop requirements. Table saw, miter saw or something else like a sander? Either way you d then have to plan for that tool which should then cover all the others. So like with all power tools… Get the biggest one (you can afford)  *
> 
> ...


I think you will be disappointed and frustrated with the "open doors & fan pointed outside" method. Will it be better than nothing? Probably, but not much. Air flow is not a simple thing. Every machine and thing in your shop will create an eddy where airflow is disturbed and the dust will drop out. It will be very difficult to maintain enough airflow to effectively move dust out of your shop with just fans. Unless you like working in tornado like conditions, this is probably not the best solution.

Don't assume that a 3hp system is the minimum you need until you understand the requirements of your tools. I used a 1 hp system for many years and it was perfectly adequate. My shops were smaller and I had smaller tools at the time, so the system was sized appropriately to meet the requirements. I can't answer which tool has the biggest CFM requirement for you- it depends on what tools you have and plan to get. I can tell you from my experience the most difficult tools to collect dust effectively from are the TS and miter saw. Miter saws are notoriously difficult to collect dust from effectively due to the design.

Dust collection system design is complex and ties closely with shop layout. You need to understand where all of your tools will be located. Will they be on portable bases or fixed locations? are you OK with the nuisance of moving a portable DC around and hooking it up to each machine every time you need to make a cut, or do you want fixed ductwork with blast gates that you can just open when you need to run a piece of equipment? I would suggest you investigate the manufacturers recommended minimum CFM requirements for the tools you have & plan to purchase. these numbers are your absolute minimum required CFM at each tool. To add a margin of safety you could use 1.5x minimum as a design target. Pressure drop requirements are determined by the piping or hose you use to connect to the DC. All piping has internal friction. Hose is worse than smooth pipe and elbows increase friction more than straight pipe. If you have short runs to the DC most of this is insignificant, but if you plan to run longer ductwork is becomes important.

Only after you have considered all of the above should you be thinking about which DC unit is best. As others have pointed out the efficiency of these units drops off fast as they clog with dust and the CFM ratings in the specs are useless. call the manufacturer and get a copy of the fan curve- this shows the CFM at various static pressure levels and using the information above you can make an informed decision about which unit you actually need. It will be bigger than you expect.

Do take the time to look over the design guidelines here- www.airhand.com. they are a good primer on designing these systems.


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## BillyDoubleU (Mar 11, 2017)

So, I am seeing that I can place a trash can separator of a cyclone between the tool and the DC.

I am assuming that this helps. But I am also going to assume that due to CFM of the DC adding a separator or cyclone in between is still limited?

Does a 1 1/2 hp DC work better with a separator/cyclone or does this cause more air resistance and thus drops the CFM even more?



> I have three dust collectors and I can tell you, up front, the claim that little Grizzly can tend three tools is the stuff pipe dreams are made of. One of my collectors is a three horse and I refuse to tackle more than one unit at a time. Dust is collected from my table saw at two points and that pushes the three horse, four bag system to the limit.
> 
> In the end, games manufacturers play with claims aside, bigger is better. In the end, big is more versatile. It can handle the stationary sanders, the planer or jointer, the band saw or even the sanding station.
> 
> ...


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## BillyDoubleU (Mar 11, 2017)

> JBrow is correct, your primary approach to DC should always be to capture the majority of the dust at the source. The better you are able to do this, the less you will need the other solutions. Skip using fans or leaf blowers, all that will do is put settled dust back into the air. *With open doors and the fans pointed out would it not blow the dust out? That s my thinking at least.*
> 
> Everyone wants to start DC design by picking the collector first, but that is backwards. First you need to understand the CFM requirements for the machinery you have (and expect to add), then figure out the pressure drops associated with the hose or ductwork you plan to use to connect to your collector. Once you understand the CFM and pressure drop requirements, you can select the correct dust collector for the job. *If a 3 hp system is the minimum do the 1, 1 1/2 and 2 hp system provide any help or is this based on the tool only? Which tool produces the most CFM/Pressure drop requirements. Table saw, miter saw or something else like a sander? Either way you d then have to plan for that tool which should then cover all the others. So like with all power tools… Get the biggest one (you can afford)  *
> 
> ...


It certainly seems to add up quick doesn't it.

I am gonna has some 240v outlets installed but I'd like to not have to install a bunch of them. It would seem that any serious DC will require a 240v….


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

For just starting out, I would go with one like the Grizzly G0548ZP which is a 2 hp with a canister for $425 plus shipping or similar Jet. Long term if you continue to buy more tools then get a big cyclone.

I used a Jet like this for a lot of years before upgrading.

You will go crazy with all the reading and advice…good luck


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## BillyDoubleU (Mar 11, 2017)

As I am finding.



> For just starting out, I would go with one like the Grizzly G0548ZP which is a 2 hp with a canister for $425 plus shipping or similar Jet. Long term if you continue to buy more tools then get a big cyclone.
> 
> I used a Jet like this for a lot of years before upgrading.
> 
> ...


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Difficult situation. All of those items will not help.

I wish we could change the terminology to "dust management" and "shavings collector" because there is no DC system available to a home hobbyist that can do what you need.

The fine dust that causes the problems is almost impossible to pick up with a DC unit, no matter what filtration you have.

Bear in mind the worst cuplrits are sanders of all kinds, which are best collected with a shop vac.

I suggest find a way to seal off your garage from the house maybe be building a second door and small foyer which encases the air handler. Check your air handler, too because if there are any breaches in the seals, it will pick up dust from the garage and spew it all over the house).


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

At minimum, I would except no less than a portable one stage dust collector with a PLEATED FILTER. This will filter out the very fine, harmful dust that a bag filter cannot.

Sure, a cyclone keeps the filter from clogging as often and makes emptying the bin easier. But as you say, your not ready for that investment yet. I used a two bag collector for a few years before upgrading to a cyclone. I think I could have gotten by with a single stage pleated filter unit for a while.

I would rather have a used DC with a good pleated filter than a new two-bag unit.
There are tons of these for sale, as they are no longer the best thing going. Most have filter shakers to make the frequent task of cleaning the pleated filter quick and easy.


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

If you can swing it, go with the Super Dust Deputy, if you are going to add a pre-filter. It will knock your CFM down significantly less than would a trash can. That is said from first hand experience.

I've had four collectors, a bazillion vacuums, and several exhaust fans. Starting out, I installed two exhaust fans in my little shop. They didn't run all the time I was making sawdust, because that ate up the heat. However, sometimes, clearing the air was more important. I would open the window I installed in the man-door, kick one of the two on and go for it. It made a huge difference, but, like many pointed out, it was a fraction as effective as collecting dust and chips at the saw, router or sander.

Where the fans shined was for the three or four times yearly clean up. I'd kick them on, fire up the electric leaf blower and dust the entire neighborhood. This filled the shop with dust, but the two fans removed a lot of air, so it actually looked good, when done.

It REALLY did dust the neighborhood though.

Years down the road, I got that UFO collector from a garage sale. The bag filter, like many, was more of a chip collector than a dust collector (i.e., it was, probably, about a ten micron filter). It was probably a [claimed] one horse. It was wonderful, but only because it gave me the collector bug.

I shoved a garbage can pre-filter in front of it and it solved the problem of having to empty bags after a planer run. However, the combination labored to keep up with the planer, because the pull of the collector dropped. It, certainly, couldn't do much for the table saw (top and bottom ports) and was equally debatable in worth for a sanding station. But, hey, any dust in the can isn't in the air, right?

The upside of the garbage can filter was that the filter bag didn't load as quickly. A Super Dust Deputy would have produced better results, but…..

I went to a 3hp cyclone from Oneida. It was worth every one of the approximately 200,000 pennies it cost - when it was running for extended periods. However, it was not designed to be turned off and on over and over again. That's REALLY hard on their not so little three horse motors (which weighed in around a hundred pounds (guess). For that reason, when I retired, I sold-traded it for a Jet 1-1/2 and cash to switch to three collectors.

Now I have the three horse with four bags, the Jet-1-1/2 and the HF "2hp" unit. The HF one just replaced a Delta one horse, which was bought for an experiment in lawn clean up / miter saw dust collection.

The Jet has a canister of debatable collection limits (the micron level of collection isn't as impressive as they could be). Still, it babysits the band saw, the edge sander, the spindle sander and the drum sander.

The HF, $189.00 special is dedicated to the miter, and cleans yard pine cones, when not focused there.

I'd prefer the HF in place of the Jet (I swapped the stock bag for a .5 micron one and the difference was noticeable) because it does have a little more pull than the Jet, but whichever one ended up on the miter was going to do lawn duty, and I didn't want to drag a $200.00 filter out into the yard.

The one horse Delta helped dust collection at the miter, but there was still a lot of dust on the floor behind the saw, when it was doing duty. The HF bought to replace it is far better. I can run fifty times the stock under the blade to get the same dust and debris the Delta left.

Of the above, the HF would be the best bet for the bigger dust generators. However, the Jet four bagger tends those (it has its upper bags replaced with better ones and the lower bags are, now, clear lawn bags) and does an impressive job. It even catches much of what the lathe tosses, which is about the hardest tool to corral [for chip control, but dust is easy].

In the end, if I had the room, the little Jet would go and I'd add another 3hp designed for frequent duty cycles and it would have a cyclone pre-filter too.



The above ramblings aside, the advice to select a collector based on your equipment is good and bad. If you never grow your shop tool and equipment collection, it would be good. If you are going to add a jointer here, a sanding table there, you are now in a ballgame for which you have to look to and plan for the future. You can always open an extra port or use larger piping and hose with a bigger collector, but you cannot make a little one do more.

_
Now, more directly to the question:

- Using a small collector, you will win and lose. I ran the SDD in front of my 1-1/2 hp Jet and it was worth the drop. More so after I figured out that, after knocking down all the dust, half or more it would land on the ring at the center of the collector, to be sucked back up into the filter, immediately, when turned back on, unless I shook the whole collector. Once I started doing that, I'd see the pull double.

So, yes. You are still removing dust before it gets to and clogs your filters. [Add to that the factor of convenience of emptying a cyclone versus dealing with the dust chaos of bag changes.]

Keep a final thing in mind, in the world of hydraulics, longer is an enemy to efficiency. For example, if you pump at 180 pounds of water pressure into a line at your fire truck, you may only get seventy at the end of your 2-1/2" lines. Add to that the bumpy interior of flex hoses and you see even more drop. That is why I have three collectors - I don't have to have long runs (smooth pipes or not) to the other side of the shop, so the collectors are more efficient.



> So, I am seeing that I can place a trash can separator of a cyclone between the tool and the DC.
> 
> I am assuming that this helps. But I am also going to assume that due to CFM of the DC adding a separator or cyclone in between is still limited?
> 
> ...


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## kelvancra (May 4, 2010)

Oh, and in support of what many have said, regarding collection at the point it's generated, I just bought a couple Festool sanders and you can [almost] run them in a tux.

Said another way, poke the proper holes in your sanding sheets and run the hand sanders off a vac. It will help, greatly.

I didn't buy the Festool vac, but between a 20' hose, holes drilled in the end with a piece of PVC that can be spun on the hose to reveal them or hide them, I can reduce the draw to the level needed for that operation and I'm happy with the investments. I put that happiness on the same level as when I first ran my sanding table [which has sides, a back and a top] off my collector. It eliminated the need for a mask for jobs up to about 3' long.


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

I don't think you mentioned it, but the issue of air handlers (furnace and or AC unit) in the garage was brought up.

If you do have, for example, a furnace in the garage, it is critical to make sure the unit and the duct work are sealed. You of course cannot seal off the source for combustion air (if it is a gas furnace). I'm talking about the air that actually comes and goes to the house. Of course you want to minimize the dust that a furnace can draw into the burner (again if gas).

If possible, enclosing a furnace to form a closet, then feed combustion air from a dedicated vent coming from outside (often the roof or even attic, if the attic vents to the outside), would be the best way. I think this is along the lines of what rwe2156 was saying.

Keep in mind that anything that burns gas, like a water heater or furnace, exhaust to the outside by a flue that functions like a fireplace chimney. Hot air rising and all that. So if you have these in the garage, AND you vent a DC outside, the DC will be sucking air out of the garage. In this case, it is critical your garage be vented so the DC cannot create negative air pressure and possibly cause the air in the flues to slow or go backwards.

If this happens, the combustion gases, like CO, will come back into your garage and even get into your house. There's real potential to hurt or even kill yourself.

This doesn't greatly complicate things. You just need to make sure you have a good sized vent to bring in replacement air for a DC. Again, if the DC is vented outside. This of course is not an issue if the DC is recirculating through a filter and not pumping air outside.

Also, if you do NOT have a gas water heater or furnace, or other gas fueled equipment. A little negative air pressure is a good thing. That way, any air leaks between the garage and house will tend to draw air form the house into the garage. Therefore you won't have dust trying to go from the shop into the house.

Concerning venting the space for dust control. I'm certainly talking about actively venting, not relying on wind direction. And, it may require cutting holes in walls to add vents or fans etc. This is not a substitute for using a DC, but an alternative to room filtering. Venting the entire space is similar to running a room filter. Only, you are drawing in fresh outside air, not pulling air through a filter. So you are not relying on the quality of a filter or keeping it unclogged.

While it should be obvious, if you vent a DC outside, you want that vent far from any other vent that is drawing air into your shop, or of course into any other part of your house.

In the end, I suggest you read up on this issue as much as possible. While I may get a DC someday, I've gotten along okay with my shop vac, room filter and respirator. I go in fits and spurts in my shop. So while a shop vac gets much of the dust from my table saw, it is not going to get much of the fine dust. That's why I wear the respirator and run the room filter. And no doubt my shop has more dust in it and needs a more complete cleaning more often.

So far, I can live with that. But if I were making dust every day, I'd probably put in the best DC possible. I may get there some day, but I'm not there yet.

And wait there's more!

Something I make a point to do, is vacuum myself off before going from the shop into the house.


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## BillyDoubleU (Mar 11, 2017)

Both are gas….

:€












> I don t think you mentioned it, but the issue of air handlers (furnace and or AC unit) in the garage was brought up.
> 
> If you do have, for example, a furnace in the garage, it is critical to make sure the unit and the duct work are sealed. You of course cannot seal off the source for combustion air (if it is a gas furnace). I m talking about the air that actually comes and goes to the house. Of course you want to minimize the dust that a furnace can draw into the burner (again if gas).
> 
> ...


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## BillyDoubleU (Mar 11, 2017)

Now I'm freaked out im gonna burn my house down…


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## JBrow (Nov 18, 2015)

BillyDoubleU,

One added thought is that since efforts to control dust in your garage workshop will be both expensive and time consuming, it may be worthwhile to look at these two books. I found them both helpful when I upgraded dust collection in my shop. Both books discuss various strategies beyond the traditional dust collector. For less than $10 (used) both books, which are informative and easy reads, can be bought.

Controlling Dust In The Workshop

https://www.amazon.com/Controlling-Dust-Workshop-Rick-Peters/dp/0806936894

Woodshop Dust Control: A Complete Guide to Setting Up Your Own System

https://www.amazon.com/Woodshop-Dust-Control-Complete-Setting/dp/1561584991/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_0/136-3930949-6008330?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=RXC1043TC389GXS8TDZ0


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## BillyDoubleU (Mar 11, 2017)

Now that I'm a little freaked out on the furnace issue…

I went and bought 2 ********************ty fans. I do my cutting at the entrance of the garage so this will simply help blow out some dust for now…

Thanks for the links, I'll have to pick those up.



> BillyDoubleU,
> 
> One added thought is that since efforts to control dust in your garage workshop will be both expensive and time consuming, it may be worthwhile to look at these two books. I found them both helpful when I upgraded dust collection in my shop. Both books discuss various strategies beyond the traditional dust collector. For less than $10 (used) both books, which are informative and easy reads, can be bought.
> 
> ...


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## clin (Sep 3, 2015)

Billy,

Don't be freaked out. These are all just things to be aware of, and are not necessarily difficult to deal with. But, it's important to know about them. At this point, it doesn't sound like your going to start off doing anything that seals your shop and would make negative air pressure.

I would do my best to be sure to seal that duct work connected to your furnace. Don't worry about the flue, just the big duct the main air moves through. Also, do what you can to seal any other areas of the furnace where the main air moves. This is just to keep dust from getting in the house that way. It also never hurts to seal duct work against any other nasty gasses in your garage. Like gasoline fumes from your car. Or solvents you store in there.

Of course you won't be able to seal it gas tight, but the harder it is for air to get in, the less of everything else you'll get.

I highly recommend you get a Dylos particle counter. And use it inside. You may gain some real understanding about what does and doesn't put particles in the air, and be able to draw conclusion about your wife's asthma. Of course the value of this depends on the severity of her symptoms.

You might learn some things that will help her. For example, I think it was Bill Pentz that didn't realize how much his collection of books was contributing to poor indoor air quality and to some of his respiratory issues.

I was surprised to see indoor particles counts spike most evenings. Took some time, but finally figured out it was anytime my wife used high heat on the stove. She wasn't burning anything, just sauteing vegetables. That sort of things. But that heat was high enough to apparently burn something slightly and emit a lot of particles in the air.

No idea if these particles might be bad, but it really got me thinking about indoor air quality. So I'm warming up to the idea of some sort of major air filtering in our home.


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## BillyDoubleU (Mar 11, 2017)

After I get it all set up I'll pick up one of those particle counters.

The ducting looks fairly well sealed. I will take a better look here in a bit.



> Billy,
> 
> Don t be freaked out. These are all just things to be aware of, and are not necessarily difficult to deal with. But, it s important to know about them. At this point, it doesn t sound like your going to start off doing anything that seals your shop and would make negative air pressure.
> 
> ...


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## BillyDoubleU (Mar 11, 2017)

So I finally hooked up my shop vac to my saws.

That made a yuge difference.


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

I have a few comments to make.

The real issue with wood dust is to prevent your lungs from being coated and preserve your health.

House fans will stir up more dust into the atmosphere and make the problem worse if you are in there.

An atmospheric filter system will eventually clear the atmosphere of dust but if you are working in there at the same time, your lungs will also filter out the dust in the atmosphere. I don't consider that a very effective solution until after the work session is over and you are somewhere else.

I have a Delta 50-760 and it is a very good machine compared to the others of similar design. I have a friend who has the popular Harbor Freight one and it out performs it by a long shot, despite the difference in claimed horsepower.

There is no way that a 2 horsepower machine will service two machines at once, much less three.

Single stage machines require continuous and nasty maintenance to remain effective because they do not capture a majority of the material before the air flow enters the filter. I retrofitted my 50-760 with a Oneida Super Dust Deputy cyclone. It cuts down on total air flow but dramatically reduces the amount of filter cleaning. It also makes dumping easier because the dust goes to a barrel rather than a clumsy bag.

The Grizzly model you mention has a 2.5 micron filter bag, which is not considered adequate by many people.

I use my leaf blower to remove the accumulated dust in my shop fairly often. It is very fast and effective. You need to wear a good dust mask while doing so because the dust will saturate the air until you are done and everything settles down.


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## ArtMann (Mar 1, 2016)

When I posted above, I didn't realize that you are working in a garage with an open door. I was assuming a closed room. That changes a lot of things. For one, fans blowing dust out into the driveway may be very effective. My shop has a central fan that pulls dust out and away and that is waaay more effective than air filters unless it is cold and the ventilation is shut down. As long as you are operating open door, then all you may need is suction to collect up the mess in one container for disposal.



> I do my cutting at the entrance of the garage so this will simply help blow out some dust for now…


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

BillyD,

Its not just the ducts.

You need to make sure the removeable panels of the air handler are not leaking. There should be foam strips if it its not sealed the air handler will pull outside air into the squirrel cage fan and into your house.

When its running listen all around if its leaking you'll hear a whistling noise.

BTW Harbor Freight has 20" pedestal fans on sale right now. I have one for several years and it works great.

Art is not correct. I have a 1 1/2HP blower with a SDD cyclone and I know it will still collect my planer even with another blast gate open.


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