# Do as I say not as I do AKA Don't do this at home



## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Hi gang
As I was cutting some wood on the table saw today the thought came to me that what I was doing is not something I would recommend to my woodworking students. My father's words came back to me "do as I say not as I do".
Because I'm a 30 year woodworker my experience allows me to do operations or techniques I would never recommend or teach to a New b. Such as (New bs cover your eyes ) free hand ripping a angle on a table saw of free hand hollowing out the back of the end of a board on the table saw free hand, pulling a board back at you on the table saw when the cut starts wrong.end cutting a slot on a board standing upright. ripping thin strips on a thin board with a circular saw an more. Are these operations dangerous? YES! Do I do these things on a every day basis ? NO . *Even as a very experienced woodworker I can still get injured doing these things so I don't recommend these techniques to others.*
These are my true confessions what are yours?(woodworking only please LOL)


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## dfletcher (Jan 14, 2010)

I am known for ripping wood freehand on a tablesaw, when the width varies. I don't think I have used a blade cover on my table saw since I knew I could take it off.

Also, I have been known to use my mitre saw incorrectly, as well.

I think, when you get used to a tool, you use it on a continual basis, you begin to learn little tricks you can do with that tool, though it may never have been made to do them.

I have learned to curb this misuse, recently, though, when I had a piece of wood shoot back at me and almost break a rib, or 3.


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## Underdog (Oct 29, 2012)

I'm sure I have other dangerous practices, that will remain unconfessed, but I'm going to do something I don't recommend anyone do…

I'm going to give you my un-solicited advice:

Stop that! It's dangerous!


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Yep 
no blade guard with me either,I feel in some cases having one makes what you're doing unsafe. I forgot I cut boards on chop saws pulling them on edge along the fence to trim a end section to trim it's height too.
I agree we need to curb the use of these techniques to a minimum .


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

Feeding a board backwards into the blade on a table saw. Guilty as charged.
Licking spinning drill bits so they cool faster. Nope, not that one.


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## shipwright (Sep 27, 2010)

All of the above and a habitual climb cutter on the router. Just had too many tear outs.


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## Mahdeew (Jul 24, 2013)

Well, let say I've been out on a limb a few times more than I care to confess.


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## canadianchips (Mar 12, 2010)

Guilty as well.
I think with experience it becomes "maybe a little safer" because we are comfortable with the saw we use.
I never gave it much thought on cutting on a table saw until this spring a young fellow was helping me on outfeed side. He grabbed BOTH pieces and cleared the table saw, it was then I realized I was still pushing my piece between the blade and fence, my hand came close to blade as he PULLED. I aske hime not to pull, I will push it through.
Look at your hands, do you have all your fingers ? if so you must be doing it safe.


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## Racer2007 (Jan 13, 2011)

We may not all Admit it but we are pretty much all Guilty of doing something like this. I Know I am , but I try to remember to do it the right way most times.


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## todd1962 (Oct 23, 2013)

I don't use the blade guard on my table saw either. I switch from ripping to crosscutting too much. However, I always use a Grr ripper when ripping unless cutting sheet stock. One thing I NEVER do…use my table saw without the riving knife, unless I'm using my dado stack.

My only other confession, freehand crosscutting stock less than 2" wide if I need a quick cut and my crosscut sled is not on my saw.

Sometimes I look at the spinning ts blade and wonder when I'm going to encounter it with flesh. [spine is tingling now]


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

SirIb
I came close to your licking the drill bit thing,way back when I built my first deck I'd put a deck screw in and realized the board needed to be moved on the joist I backed the screw out and promptly placed it in my mouth where I had 3 or 4 other screws,all of a sudden I hear this bubbling sound ,it was the saliva in my mouth boling from the super hot screw I'd just put in my mouth,obviously I wasn't thinking about the friction heating the screw up from backing it out of the wood,the bubbling sound came just before my big YEEEEOW I yelled out. LOL
Your certainly hanging out there Mr'jinx
Wow chips
That's one of my pet peeves don't help ripping by pulling a board from the back of the saw, a quick way to pull someone's hands into a saw blade. Yep all fingers are intact I'm grateful for that.


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## Unknowncraftsman (Jun 23, 2013)

Sometimes I don't wear safety glass.In my mind I say this will just take a second.And it will take too long to get the glasses,So I Just do the safety squint.Thats my confession.


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## donbee (Feb 7, 2009)

My blade guard is overhead and contains dust collection, so I rarely do without. The exception is when making a cut with which the guard will interfere.

Not that I've never been injured, but I still have 20 digits and only one numb fingertip.

Don


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## Ghidrah (Jan 20, 2015)

I agree, I would not suggest free hand work on a TS to someone new to the tool and or trade. However the technique has great value when one is familiar with the tool from much time working with it. I saw carpenters using the technique on a daily basis when I was learning the trade. It requires accurate hand/eye coordination.


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## Kentuk55 (Sep 21, 2010)

I know what you mean Jim. I have caught myself getting ready to do the "don't do this" thing, and was able to win that argument w/my brain and didn't do it. I'm sure I've done many "don't do this" things tho. Outside of the woodshop, I will say this: Don't ever try to put new string in your weed whacker while it is running…..................it really hurts the fingers….............LOL…..............seriously had a brain malfunction when I did that a few years ago.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

OK, I confess….

I always use a blade guard, eye protection, ear protection, and a respirator and I NEVER, EVER run a board over the jointer without a push block…...

.....Yeah, right…..

You're exactly right, Jim, but as a 20 yr ww'er, you and I both know when we get lulled into stuff like that, eventually we get bit in the ass, it serves as a reminder that we need to respect our machines a little more than we.

One of my recent reminders came when ripping some stock with a loose knot.
No eye protection. No push block. 
Almost had a bad day.

That's my biggest downfall: not looking at the stock just robotically feeding it in.


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## Stewbot (Jun 7, 2015)

> Sometimes I don t wear safety glass.In my mind I say this will just take a second.And it will take too long to get the glasses,So I Just do the safety squint.Thats my confession.
> 
> - Aj2


I safety squint way too often, if there might be a nail, safety eye shut….

sometimes the shirt over the nose and mouth as a respirator….

These are both very bad and very irresponsible and I try to minimize it, but this is sort of a confession thread so no judgement allowed.


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## JeffP (Aug 4, 2014)

I have only had my Sawstop for about half a year…and it would take me almost that long to find the blade guard. It has, quite literally, never been installed on my saw.

I don't consider this to be a confession. I use a Saw stop, because it makes sense. I use the riving knife, because it makes sense. I wear glasses, because I can't see ******************** anymore.

I don't use the blade guard, because it simply doesn't make sense to me. If there is a sharp spinning wheel 'o death in my vicinity, I want to know precisely where it is at all times. Just as a trained electrician always treats his work as if the power is still on, so I treat my sawing as if that blade has it out for me. I view each cut as a death match between me and the blade…that keeps me focused. I want to stare into its steely blue eyes as we grapple. Don't want it hiding behind a mask.

I don't have anything to confess here…because I'm not experienced enough to know better yet. Each time my equipment scares the crap out of me, I at least say to myself "I'm never gonna do that again". Usually it's true. Sometimes I forget.

Soon as I get a circular tuit, I'm going to start a thread here about all those darn safety "features" that actually make the tools less safe. An example is the "push and hold this totally misplaced switch in order to make the go button work". I have come closer to loosing a finger or a leg more times than I care to remember trying to deal with those infernal contraptions and their many cousins.

Mostly, my hat is off to the OP for keeping up the flow of safety posts here. I need a lot of that. I'm happy that the crew here keeps supplying me with it.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

I saw a composite laminate floor installer doing ALL the cutting without a guard, riving knife, fence, miter head, without face protection or a dust mask! The dust was flying everywhere!

I just couldn't watch because it looked like trouble. He survived, as far as I know, without any major incident but the long term issues of breathing in that laminate dust should still a concern as he does this for a living!


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## stevestuff (Nov 8, 2013)

I do cabinet installs, and for European (no faceframe) cabinets, there's no scribe mold. So we have a filler (usually 3" width by 3/4" by cabinet height) that needs to contour to the wall. Best way to cut it is free-hand on a table saw, using a 7-1/4" blade - that way you have less chance of pinching the blade. Most all installers do it this way.


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## DocSavage45 (Aug 14, 2010)

Just my 20 cents with inflation….Recently had kickback standing behind the piece, which was rectangular. Had a support back brace which dissipated the blow as well as the saw fence it ricocheted from. Ended up with a kiss print in vivid purple and red. No bones broken.

Didn't use a clamp or stop block on my 12 inch compound miter saw. "Just going to cut a little corner off the edge of this wall plate trim.bbbbb' "ARRRGGHHHH!" Did not cut off my finger…but I broke it and figured it out too late.

Guess what I do not do anymore?

Hey my hero Norm took the gaurd off his saw "for demonstration only, " Right!

Saw stop for my other hero Charles Neil, who fell asleep pushing himself to get a piece out the door and will tell you the story as he shows his messed up fingers.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

I work on electricity for a living. Hand/body placement is paramount. I tell my helpers that saying all the time. That and "don't touch me or we'all both get shocked." So to each his own.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

This one is a little off topic, and also a little bizzare!
My of my friends had an intern job at a power station which was having a tour of government, local and state, visiting the power plant. All the employees had to wear their clean whites and white plastic helmets.

The tour guide was pointing out the various hardware when he pulled a pen out of his pocket and pointed to the ceiling, high above the floor, with an outstretched arm and hand. There was a flash of light and the tour guide was dead. A 720kV line had a pin hole just above where the tour guide stood.

This is extreme but it shows what some little mistakes can be fatal.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Wow that's powerful
That's it I'm canceling my tour of the power plant.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Well. That's about as random as it gets.


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## oldnovice (Mar 7, 2009)

My entire 40+ year career was spent in electronics however, I spent 98% of that with voltages less than 48 VAC …. *by choice*!

However I still have scars from the 2% that weren't!


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## SenecaWoodArt (Dec 19, 2013)

No blade guard? Check (not sure I could even find it)
Free hand cutting? Check
Linking a hot drill? I am not that stupid yet.
Safety glasses? Damn right I use them.

My two biggest mistakes have been with the router and a circle cutter in the drill press. I was rushing a project late one evening on the router and must have left my common sense in my other pants. I knew that I was cutting too close and should stop. End result was the tip of my finger exploding. Surprisingly there was never any pain. The wife and EMT son took over and cleaned, treated and bandaged it. Most of it grew back.

I was working in the shop with my youngest grandson letting him practice with some hand tools when I decided to try out my newest purchase, a circle cutter. Bad idea. I was too busy supervising the grandson and not supervising myself. The first rotation made the neatest white line on my left index finger. I was thinking how lucky, I had been when that white line fell open and I could see the bone. I calmly grabbed a shop rag and covered it up so the grandson wouldn't see. Shut him down while I went into the bath and filled it with neosporen, taped it shut and waited on the wife to get home. Can you say stiches? 27 of those suckers and that dawned pain shot hurt the worst of all. It took me a whole year before I chucked that circle cutter up again. Did I mention the grief I caught from the wife

Basically, I have been very fortunate, but I practice safety and caution .


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## BadJoints (Jun 3, 2015)

I only takes a moment of inattention. I had just completed a cut and was reaching to turn the TS off . As I removed my right had from the fence, I moved my fingers directly into the blade. I have no idea why/how. For a second, I wasn't even sure I had hurt myself. And then I looked. I had removed about 1/4 from the end of 3 fingers. It didn't even hurt until I was about half way to the ER.

Military docs hate you. I'm pretty sure mine was actually smiling as he used a bristle brush on the end of each destroyed fingertip.

That was the last time I will make a cut without some sort of blade guard. I've even rigged a plexi guard that runs in the table track for use with the dado blade.

Because I am awesome, the ends of all 3 fingers grew back within a couple months. 7 months later, there is only a slight redness to indicate they were ever injured. But oh man, they hurt at the slightest touch. It's a constant safety reminder that I am happy to live with.


> Soon as I get a circular tuit, I m going to start a thread here about all those darn safety "features" that actually make the tools less safe. An example is the "push and hold this totally misplaced switch in order to make the go button work". I have come closer to loosing a finger or a leg more times than I care to remember trying to deal with those infernal contraptions and their many cousins.
> 
> - JeffP


I have always considered the switch placement on my Dewalt TS to be dangerous. "Hey, now that I'm done with the cut, and my hands are as close to the blade as they can get, let me just change my focus of attention and reach for this awkwardly placed switch that requires I look away from the sharp spinning thing" I assume that there was some sort of intent that you be able to "bump" it off, but it just doesn't work. What was I doing in the above mentioned accident? Looking for the damn off switch.

I took a picture of my fingers that I look at every now and again. It's a good reminder.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

Wow that's down right scary,I'm glad you made it through Bob.


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## stansgotwood (Apr 30, 2015)

you need one of these bad boys for ripping wood. works like a champ. cuts straight and easy.

i just finished the construction/fabrication/assembly this afternoon. i have about $8 into it. the wood is reclaimed maple and poplar from pallets. 4inch carriage bolts, with a slot cut in the middle of each, hold the bandsaw blade. most expensive part were the stainless bolts that pass through the carriage bolts. i didn't want those snapping off when the blade is tensioned. cut the head off one of the carriage bolts, and put a wingnut on there for tensioning. may replace the poplar with something a little heavier duty. my dovetails were a little tight, and small cracks are appearing. superglued the bejeebus out of the cracks, so it may hold. we'll see. i'm happy with it for now. just needs a little work on some crazy grain around the knots in the maple pieces. almost got it planed smooth. havent given in to sanding just yet.


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## jeffswildwood (Dec 26, 2012)

Count me in this group. Blade guard? Mine has two kick back pieces on it that left two lines on my stock. Off it came. Plus cutting miters and rabbets it had to come off anyway. Freehand on a table saw? nope, not that brave. I do use push sticks and edge guides. Now for cutting thin strips, guilty. I cut a large amount of @ 1/8 inch strips and don't even use a ZCI! Stupid and had a scare or two before as one of them falls into the slot, and the blade grabbed it. LOUD! Scared me and my wife upstairs. My biggest scare was cutting a box lid off and as it tipped I started to grab it. Tipped the other direction and when done I counted my fingers to see if they were all there. Attempting to resaw a piece of maple, that's a story in its self!

I don't think I will be licking any drill bits any time soon, but I have held a piece and felt the bit enter my finger on the other side.


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## helluvawreck (Jul 21, 2010)

This is a true story. I know a guy who had a company where he made antique reproductions. He had a good many workers and was a great woodworker. He had probably 10 shapers at least. He was showing a group of workers what not to do and ran a piece of wood through one of the shapers along with his hand. You know the 'give me five' routine. Now when he does it he says 'give me two'. He's been working with machinery and wood for at least 40 years. He knows what he's doing. The only thing that I can figure is that he's not the right guy to teach a small group how to do something dangerous. He was obviously not thinking about what he was doing but was concentrating on his teaching. I'm sure that something like this has happened to other people while they were showing how to do something dangerous.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com


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## MrRon (Jul 9, 2009)

Never try and clean a chainsaw chain by holding it against a wire wheel on a bench grinder. I tried it once and ended up in the ER for multiple stitches to my hand.


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## AlaskaGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

"Do as I say not as I do"

I tried that on my wife several times….... it don't work!


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## CB_Cohick (Dec 22, 2014)

The tool doesn't care how much experience you have. I think if you have not been bitten, you can consider yourself lucky rather than skilled. Be careful fellas.


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## SirIrb (Jan 12, 2015)

I love shapers. And I fear them. Your story just made me cringe.


> This is a true story. I know a guy who had a company where he made antique reproductions. He had a good many workers and was a great woodworker. He had probably 10 shapers at least. He was showing a group of workers what not to do and ran a piece of wood through one of the shapers along with his hand. You know the give me five routine. Now when he does it he says give me two . He s been working with machinery and wood for at least 40 years. He knows what he s doing. The only thing that I can figure is that he s not the right guy to teach a small group how to do something dangerous. He was obviously not thinking about what he was doing but was concentrating on his teaching. I m sure that something like this has happened to other people while they were showing how to do something dangerous.
> 
> helluvawreck aka Charles
> http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com
> ...


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

That's some real scary stuff guys.


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## Pezking7p (Nov 17, 2013)

Another tour story…

Guy was giving a plant tour showing some folks a die cutting operation. As he reached out to point at something, a die cycled and he lost his hand.


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## stefang (Apr 9, 2009)

I imagine that most of us are guilty as charged Jim, but my attitude about this is as follows:

THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DOING THE WRONG THING *UNCONSCIOUSLY* AND *CONSCIOUSLY*. THAT DIFFERENCE IN A WORD IS *AWARENESS*, A STATE OF MIND THAT CAN SAVE OUR A** OR WHATEVER OTHER BODY PARTS MIGHT BE AT RISK.


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## Jim Jakosh (Nov 24, 2009)

I never use a blade guard on my table saw, but many of those cuts have a disaster warning on them!


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## jeffswildwood (Dec 26, 2012)

> I never use a blade guard on my table saw, but many of those cuts have a disaster warning on them!
> 
> *I like this Jim, so true*


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## jeffswildwood (Dec 26, 2012)

> I never use a blade guard on my table saw, but many of those cuts have a disaster warning on them!
> 
> - Jim Jakosh


I like this Jim, so true! (Woops, double post)


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## TheWoodenOyster (Feb 6, 2013)

I've cut a board on its thin edge trapped between the fence and the blade with the blade at an angle. Worked like a charm other than the burning. It was either that or handplane for two hours…


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

Be aware….but somethings are more dangerous. It is interesting to hear some describe dangerous operations and explain that because they are aware or experienced that it is safe.

I do not agree personally but everyone determines there own level of risk and potential consequences.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

I'm glad folks have posted some very scary events here so new folks don't think all of the operations described are normal ways to do things.
I understand some the operations I have used occasionally are risky and absolutely don't recommend those approaches to anyone . I feel that the best policy is to follow Norm's disclaimer to"read understand and follow all of your tools and equipment's instructions and most important of all always wear your safety glasses" and I may add never do operations that are not safe even if crazy A-1jim does them on rare occasions. )


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## Pimzedd (Jan 22, 2007)

If I remember correctly, the guy that sued Ryobi and won for not having the SawStop technology on the saw was sawing freehand without a guard. Of course he was on his knees with the saw setting on the floor. (Sorry if the Sawstop reference upsets this thread)

I have a table saw that was made in 1949. I think it came with a guard but it was long gone when I got it in 1983. I do not make freehand cuts, always a fence or miter gauge. Always safety glasses. Respirator if I am making lots of cuts but not for just one or two.

I taught "Shop" for 34 years. I always used all safety procedures with the kids. Could not take a chance on setting a bad example. However if I knew of a story of an accident for a machine I was demonstrating, I would tell the story, but not demonstrate it. Every story was an example of someone not following a safety rule for that machine.

Oh yea. like every good shop teacher, I only have 9.5 fingers. Was't a woodworking machine accident. Lost it in a 75 ton injection molding machine while reaching around a guard. It was the best teaching tool I had. When I saw a kid not following a safety rule, I would tell them they are going to end up looking like me. They could not argue with that.


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## Daruc (Apr 20, 2015)

I pretty much break all the rules. 
Probably an accident waiting to happen.

Along with everything mentioned above, one other thing I do a lot is to drop cut square holes out of a board, and on occasion I round some corners.

But I realize the dangers of what I'm doing and what can happen when I'm doing such things, so I always keep my hands in the best positions in case something does happen. 
Knowing how wood reacts and what can go wrong during a cutting operation is how experience gives you an edge.

And yes, I am "experienced", 
I ran three fingers into the blade about 20 years ago. 
Mangled them up a bit, but I still have them all with the exception of 1 knuckle fused together that doesn't bend.
If anything it has made me stay more aware of what I'm doing, and for a few things that I may have done in the past I do differently. 
I do feel, (as Jim says, Having Experience) I am confident doing whatever task is at hand without being uncomfortable. If I feel at all uncomfortable is when I select a different method.
Different strokes for different folks.

If you don't feel 100% safe doing something, Don't Do It!


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