# Are premium hand planes worth it?



## dschlic1 (Jan 3, 2013)

I have been thinking about getting a low angle jack plane for some time. There are several alternatives:

Stanley #62 $123 (Amazon)
Woodriver #62 $213 (Amazon)
Lie-Nielsen #62 $245++ (LN)
Veritas $245++ (LV)

The Stanley is receiving mostly very good reviews. My question is are the other planes worth twice the price?


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## AUswimKC (Jan 24, 2013)

In a word. Yes.

WoodRiver is not a premium plane in that for an extra $30 the difference is exceptional.

You can have my LV LA Jack when you pry it from my cold dead hands.


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## Redsoxfan (Dec 12, 2013)

i like my stanley.


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

I own a L-N LA Jack and all I know is that it arrived flawless (like everything else I've bought from them and Lee Valley. Both companies are truly great.) I've read the reviews of that Stanley on amazon and there were enough who were disappointed in the quality to steer me away. $123 for a plane isn't chump change. Never used one but I didn't seriously consider buying it.

I dropped a L-N plane on the ground last week and smashed the knob. L-N sent me a free replacement knob. Good luck getting that kind of service from Stanley.

Is the extra cost worth it to you? Only you can answer that question. It was for me.


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## Tim457 (Jan 11, 2013)

I wouldn't buy a new Stanley currently, I've heard too many bad things about them. That's too much money to spend on something that's not very good. I don't have any premium planes like LN or LV, but since vintage isn't a great option for the #62, that's a great plane to go to LN or LV for.

On the other hand I hear mixed reviews of low angle planes in general. There are people that will say they don't do any better than a well tuned up standard angle plane or a high angle frog.


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

> On the other hand I hear mixed reviews of low angle planes in general. There are people that will say they don t do any better than a well tuned up standard angle plane or a high angle frog.
> 
> - Tim


I don't know how the LA Jack got a reputation for being a magical plane that can do most anything. It took me a while to get one, but now that I have one I know for a fact that it's irresponsible to promote them as some sort of wonder plane. I don't see the manufacturers doing that, I see people who've never really used one much doing that. The only hand plane you need? Ah, no. C'mon Marc Spagnuolo. It does some things terribly and can rip out chunks of a board face easily. I use mine for end grain and to mill down boards with a toothed blade because it doesn't destroy the wood like a scrub. It is a terrific milling machine, but if you don't do this sort of thing by hand then you're eliminating a big reason to get one.

Honestly, it should be classified as a specialty plane and not a jack. It does not do what my high angle frog smoother does. Or a regular #5.


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## Dwain (Nov 1, 2007)

In this case, I would strongly suggest going with the LN or the LV. The only way I would see going another way was if you could by vintage. Those are really hard to find, so I am guessing you won't have any luck. Save your money and get the best made plane. You won't be disappointed. Although there is discussion about which is better, LV or LN, there is no doubt that both are much better than the Wood River and the Stanley.

As far as value, they may not work as well as a $300 LN or LV plane, but they do very well, and you can swap out the blades and get even more flexibility for end grain or exceptionally figured grain.

I will be getting a 62 soon, and I am sold on the LN. I'm saving for the plane and the additional two blades.

DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME ON THE STANLEY OR THE WOOD RIVER. The new Stanley isn't made as nicely and the Wood River is good tool with some fettling. For an extra $30.00 you get a plane that needs no work… NO WORK to get started. Of course, a quick lapping of the blade is always suggested.

Go LN, go LV. Don't set yourself up for disappointment!


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

I have a LN low angle jack. It's a nicely made
plane but I don't use it very much. I prefer
a bevel-down iron with a chipbreaker most of
the time.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

"Yes" to cutting across the grain [or] for use on knurly cross-grained wood where the ordinary block plane would be too light.

http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/01/27/the-stanley-62-low-angle-block-plane-1905-1942/


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## Kirk650 (May 8, 2016)

I have a Veritas low angle 4, a LN bronze 4, and a new (we'll,,not that new) Stanley 4. The Veritas gets reached for first. I have the LN set for real smoothing, and the Stanley is set for a heavier cut. The Stanley, even with a Hock blade, just isn't in the league with the other two, though once set up properly it is a decent plane. If I didn't want to spend the money for Veritas or LN, I could get along fine with the Stanley.


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## bbasiaga (Dec 8, 2012)

One thing I will throw out….when I did my research in to these planes, I had heard that the original Stanley 62s had a weak spot in the casting behind the mouth and they could Crack there. Both LN and LV beefed up their planes compared to the original, so there may be some truth to the thought there is a weakness in the original design. I am not sure if the new Stanley fixed this.

I got the LN and I love it. I use it for basically everything, but I am mostly a power tool user. So everything, in my case, means fitting up parts, smoothing, and light dimensioning.

Brian


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

I have the LV low angle jack and it is my go-to plane 90% of the time despite having a full stable of other planes. I like having the ease of adjusting the mouth opening without having to adjust the frog, and the quick ability to change blades if I want to use eg. a high angle blade on difficult grain or a low angle blade on end grain.

As others have said, almost any plane regardless of price can be made into a user. LV and LN planes you pay for quality which means a flat sole, smooth castings and smooth adjustment with little slop. Also with LV you can get their PMV-11 iron which is fantastic.


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## mramseyISU (Mar 3, 2014)

Here's what this boils down to for me. Is the LN or L-V plane twice as good as the new Stanley? From the reviews from the gang over on the Unplugged WW facebook page the answer seems to be no so far. There's a couple guys over there who have bought both the new Stanley and a LN version and it sounds like the Stanley is 75% as good as the LN and L-V. On the other hand if you buy one and don't like it the LN and L-V are going to have much better resale value so that's something to consider.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

I had both Old Stanley 62 and the LN. I sold the old one for about $325 and kept the LN. The Stanley was not as well made.


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## PPK (Mar 8, 2016)

> Here s what this boils down to for me. Is the LN or L-V plane twice as good as the new Stanley? From the reviews from the gang over on the Unplugged WW facebook page the answer seems to be no so far. There s a couple guys over there who have bought both the new Stanley and a LN version and it sounds like the Stanley is 75% as good as the LN and L-V. On the other hand if you buy one and don t like it the LN and L-V are going to have much better resale value so that s something to consider.
> 
> - mramseyISU


I agree!!

One more thing that I'd add though, is that the LN and LV planes are much heavier, and I really prefer the added weight. That adds value for me.


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## PPK (Mar 8, 2016)

PS, full disclosure: I do own a Lee Valley low angle bevel up smoother plane, and it's the one I reach for almost always… I bought it on Ebay used for only just a little less than new from Lee Valley.


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## bandit571 (Jan 20, 2011)

Sorry…..but the only Low Angle, Bevel Up planes I have found that I actually need, and use….









60-1/2 and 56B….....about all I find a use for in this type of planes. YMMV


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

> PS, full disclosure: I do own a Lee Valley low angle bevel up smoother plane, and it s the one I reach for almost always… I bought it on Ebay used for only just a little less than new from Lee Valley.
> 
> - PPK


Both Veritas and Lie-Nielson hold their value or go up in price with the current value of the plane. Some of my LN are selling on eBay for more than what I paid new.


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## gargey (Apr 11, 2016)

Would you rather reward Stanley for what they've done for the world of hand tools lately, or LN/LV?

I bought some of the Stanley Sweethart chisels. Huge pain in the ass to get them into shape - the layer of lacquer on them demonstrates that they don't have a clue what a real woodworker wants.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Here s what this boils down to for me. Is the LN or L-V plane twice as good as the new Stanley? From the reviews from the gang over on the Unplugged WW facebook page the answer seems to be no so far. There s a couple guys over there who have bought both the new Stanley and a LN version and it sounds like the Stanley is 75% as good as the LN and L-V. On the other hand if you buy one and don t like it the LN and L-V are going to have much better resale value so that s something to consider.
> 
> - mramseyISU


I have to question the validity of trying to quantify "goodness" in a tool. A lot depends on your wallet. As has been mentioned here, LV and LN are pretty much ready out of the box. My Record planes I bought years ago took a great deal of preparation to get them ready for use. Are my LN planes twice as good? Again, I can't quantify that, but I can quantify the time invested in tuning up a plane that's not ready to go when I get it home.

BTW, I'm an engineer too. Not sure that means you should trust me though.


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## JohnChung (Sep 20, 2012)

You can try to buy Quangsheng hand plane. I have used LN, Veritas , Stanley and Quangsheng

In terms of quality and machining. LV and Veritas are first.
Second is Quangsheng
and finally Stanley.

In terms of price…... If you want to skip all the fixing or fettling then buy LN or Veritas. But if you don't mind some modification all the hand planes can do very good work.


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## Mikesawdust (Jan 29, 2010)

Yes they are worth it, I have both a Stanley and a LN and the difference is amazing. I still use the Stanley as a pocket plane at the woodshop on because its light enough to carry (about half the weight ) and for small adjustments it does fine but the LN is my go to for detail work when I'm doing finish work.


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## EricTwice (Dec 9, 2016)

Are premium planes worth it, I agree with the "yes" 
I have used the LV and own a couple of LNs, and a couple of old bedrocks and a VBM. 
I can tell the difference in the vibration, the cut and the amount of tear out. 
If you are going to use them, get the best you can afford.

that said, most planes will work well if you tune them, 
You can quiet vibration by changing to a heavier iron

knowing the type of work the plane will be assigned will also let you know what kind of plane you buy.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

If you want value. Stanley or woodriver.

If you want quality. LV or LN.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

I wouldn't buy a new Stanley. Vintage Stanleys are fine but the new ones are junk. I really do think you get your moneys worth from either Lee Valley or Lie-Nielson. I think hand tools are one area where, "you get what you pay for".


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

When I started heavy down the hand tool road, the prices I saw for 'premium' tools were incredible to me. "Who in their right mind would pay $350 for a plane?? And chisels are $200 - $300, too?? Hand saws for $270? Hand saws?? Who pays that??"

It wasn't me. Well, not for a few years anyway.

You won't jump into the pricing 'deep end' at first. Heck, maybe you won't at all. But the prices won't be 'shocking' forever. That's not to say the Lie-Nielsen #62 at $245+ isn't a huge amount of cash for a tool that otherwise makes shavings, it is. But I'm less attuned to the price difference between premium chinese or indian planes (wood river, quangsheng) vs. veritas or lie-nielsen. And once that happened, I'd not choose anything but one of the latter planes. It's worth it to me to support north american industry.

Now, with all that said, I have a LN #164 and it's the heaviest plane in the Not Wall Hung outside of Heft & Hubris itself, the Stanley #8. My preference tells me I don't necessarily value the extra weight LN planes have over their inspiration Stanley counterparts. I have a vintage Stanley #162 and love it. It doesn't 'do it all,' but it's a great performer for drawer sides and other end grain work that I apply it to. Not a smoother, but it does that to some degree. More like a jointer, but in the end it's simply a large, handled block plane.

Long post, and I have to see if I've answered the question. The answer to your OP is Yes, they're worth the price difference. For initial quality, on-going customer support, and because both LN and Veritas have a line of planes and tools that you can explore as your capabilities expand. Moreso than wood river. and even the stanley SW reissues line.

Hope this helps, on top of all the other great advise you've received so far.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

I'm not one to advocate the do it all aspect of LA planes. I believe they're good for end grain and some specific species but I'll take a well tuned cap iron any day.


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## thewoodwhisperer (Dec 11, 2006)

> On the other hand I hear mixed reviews of low angle planes in general. There are people that will say they don t do any better than a well tuned up standard angle plane or a high angle frog.
> 
> - Tim
> 
> ...


You rang?  The low angle jack plane is a good multi-tasker for two simple reasons: body length and iron options. The length of the body is between a smoother and a jointer and consequently, it can do both. Does it do both as well as separates? Of course not. But it can do both. And with a couple of spare irons you can further refine your approach for face grain, figured wood, and end grain. Can it rip out chunks of wood? Yup. But so can any plane when used incorrectly or while dull. The LA jack is by no means a magical plane that does everything perfectly. For someone looking to build up a full hand tool focused shop, it's definitely not the best option. But for someone like me who doesn't depend on the tool for all aspects of the milling process 100% of the time, it could very well suffice as a high-quality multi-tasker that negates the need for three separate planes. Of course, it's not going to be as good as separates, but that's what compromises are all about. As stated in the article you linked to: "Obviously, we have to make a number of assumptions here and this plane will not be right for everyone in all situations. It's a compromise solution and it could very well fall short depending on how you work in your shop." 
Viva la 62!


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## dschlic1 (Jan 3, 2013)

I seemed to have set off a fire storm. I am a bit confused, several of the first comments mentioned $30. In reality the LN and LV planes are twice or more than the Stanley. Don't really know because I could not find out how much shipping is.

About half of the use of the LA plane will be on a shooting board. The other I probably will get a second blade and sharpen it at a steeper angle. I like the idea of a movable throat vs a movable frog. Seems like it would be easier to adjust.

Anyway that you for all of your replies.


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

$30 = difference between WR and premium planes.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

New Stanley LA is likely $100 lower.

What country are you located in?


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## ArlinEastman (May 22, 2011)

I own a Stanley #62 and tried a LV one as well. Although they do the same thing the LV guts works easier and hence better overall.

On the price only the person can say if it is worth it or not. If a person has the planes he needs and they work great for them who should care what they have.


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## mounttod (Sep 28, 2015)

I own every brand you listed except Stanley. Please go ahead and buy the LV if you are going with a bevel up plane. They are accurately considered the best manufacturer of bevel up planes. I own a LV jointer plane and a woodriver low angle jack plane. The LV is significantly nicer. It has set screws that keep the blade in proper position between sharpenings. If you decide down the road to get a standard bevel down plane you can't go wrong with WoodRiver. The quality is exceptional for the price(make sure you wait for a sell). I'm sure LN planes are great but I can't justify the price other than a couple of their cheaper specialty planes.


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

> I m sure LN planes are great but I can t justify the price other than a couple of their cheaper specialty planes.
> 
> - mounttod


Prices for LV and LN are comparable. In fact they both sell the LA jack for the same price, unless you get the PM V11 blade from LV, then you're paying more than LN. Quality is comparable. I bought a LV router plane over a LN because of small differences. But in general, it comes down to style and not substance with these two companies.


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## PPK (Mar 8, 2016)

> I seemed to have set off a fire storm. I am a bit confused, several of the first comments mentioned $30. In reality the LN and LV planes are twice or more than the Stanley. Don t really know because I could not find out how much shipping is.
> 
> About half of the use of the LA plane will be on a shooting board. The other I probably will get a second blade and sharpen it at a steeper angle. I like the idea of a movable throat vs a movable frog. Seems like it would be easier to adjust.
> 
> ...


 Some things are just hot topics before you even ask them. It's kind of like asking if Chevy or Ford is better. There's no "right" answer. Buy what you think you'll like, live and learn. You have lots of tips now. Glean the information that's useful to you.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

> $30 = difference between WR and premium planes.
> 
> - Smitty_Cabinetshop


Wasn't aware of that smit dog. To me, that would seal the deal being that close on most sizes. USA all the way. Or maybe Canada


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## Smitty_Cabinetshop (Mar 26, 2011)

I was just going by the OP's price list.

Woodriver #62 $213 (Amazon)
Lie-Nielsen #62 $245++ (LN)
Veritas $245++ (LV)


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Gotcha. I haven't looked at woodriver in a while so I'm not exactly up to date. I'm a hooker for LN anyway


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## ColonelTravis (Mar 19, 2013)

> You rang?
> - thewoodwhisperer


Marc, I appreciate your addendum here and I owe you an apology for me being too lazy to equate a poor headline with your caveats, which were indeed on the page I linked.

Thanks for the comment.


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## JohnChung (Sep 20, 2012)

removed as duplicate post


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## derekcohen (Jul 15, 2007)

> I seemed to have set off a fire storm. I am a bit confused, several of the first comments mentioned $30. In reality the LN and LV planes are twice or more than the Stanley. Don t really know because I could not find out how much shipping is.
> 
> *About half of the use of the LA plane will be on a shooting board.* The other I probably will get a second blade and sharpen it at a steeper angle. I like the idea of a movable throat vs a movable frog. Seems like it would be easier to adjust.
> 
> ...


In which case, the LV is the better purchase. It is slightly wider, and heavier than the LN.

The LN is a great plane, however the LV has better adjustments - side screws to aid in resetting a blade after honing, and a Norris-type adjuster. LV also offer PM-V11 steel.

If you were considering the LA Jack primarily as a small jointer, I'd suggest the LN because it is narrower and will balance a little better on narrow edges. (I have a vintage Stanley #62, which is the same as the LN).

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## bridgerberdel (Dec 31, 2014)

Why use an overpriced, overweight plane with the wear bevel forming on the wrong side of the iron and no chipbreaker in the first place?


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## dschlic1 (Jan 3, 2013)

> Why use an overpriced, overweight plane with the wear bevel forming on the wrong side of the iron and no chipbreaker in the first place?
> 
> - bridgerberdel


Low angle, bevel up planes usually work better on end grain. Also like I said, I like the idea of an adjustable mouth rather than an adjustable frog.


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## mramseyISU (Mar 3, 2014)

Just curious, how many of you guys bashing the new Stanley Sweetheart stuff actually own them? I like the ones I have and the low angle jack is basically the only one I don't have. I have the shoulder plane and I like it, just wish it was a bit bigger to make it easier to hold. I've got a low angle block and it's got the opposite problem where it's just a bit too big to hold in one hand. I also have the smoother and it's a fine plane, I just don't like Norris Style Adjusters. All three hold an edge really well and they were flat out of the box.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

> Just curious, how many of you guys bashing the new Stanley Sweetheart stuff actually own them? I like the ones I have and the low angle jack is basically the only one I don t have. I have the shoulder plane and I like it, just wish it was a bit bigger to make it easier to hold. I ve got a low angle block and it s got the opposite problem where it s just a bit too big to hold in one hand. I also have the smoother and it s a fine plane, I just don t like Norris Style Adjusters. All three hold an edge really well and they were flat out of the box.
> 
> - mramseyISU


I've never owned one. I've steered clear because of feedback provided by people I know that have them as well as general reviews. I have old stanley, Sargent, LN, Veritas, and Lubans. All work well when tuned. Size and feel is unique to each person. You have to try them and see what you like. I like large block planes. Stanley 65 is my favorite.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

My statement is this: if the lead engineer of a particular brand of imported planes can't guarantee you'll get a plane without defects then that tells you something about QC.

i bought a grizzly bandsaw. It itself worked great out of the box. A week later, someone else posted their poor review of the same saw and wanted to return it.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

> My statement is this: if the lead engineer of a particular brand of imported planes can t guarantee you ll get a plane without defects then that tells you something about QC.
> 
> i bought a grizzly bandsaw. It itself worked great out of the box. A week later, someone else posted their poor review of the same saw and wanted to return it.
> 
> - TheFridge


Add to that, what would the company do to make it right. One of the reasons I like LN.


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## TheFridge (May 1, 2014)

Yeah. Personally I think they're totally worth it. I have the means so it is kinda easier for me to say.

Everyone looks for something different in the end. If I had access to dirt cheap planes I'd probably be DonW junior by now


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## Lemwise (Sep 17, 2016)

My old Record #3 with a PM-V11 blade does everything a LN or Veritas does. There's zero difference in performance. Of course those who own a "premium" plane will disagree to justify the cost.


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## Just_Iain (Apr 5, 2017)

> My old Record #3 with a PM-V11 blade does everything a LN or Veritas does. There s zero difference in performance. Of course those who own a "premium" plane will disagree to justify the cost.
> 
> - Lemwise


Lemwise, a number of people have commented that you can get an older plane and tune it up to work as well as a new 'premium' plane. And that is what I'm doing now with a bunch of older planes that I've bought. And will that old Stanley or Record arrive from eBay with cracks or badly brazed repairs. Again time vs money.

But the caveat is that the question was for which new plane to buy. With the premiums you get a plane that is 99% ready to use. With the Stanley, it's likely 60% (it'll need a lot a work and what if you don't know how to do it?). So is your money more important than your time?


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## derekcohen (Jul 15, 2007)

> My old Record #3 with a PM-V11 blade does everything a LN or Veritas does. There s zero difference in performance. Of course those who own a "premium" plane will disagree to justify the cost.
> 
> - Lemwise


I agree with that on face grain (as long as we are talking about setting the chipbreaker on the #3 to control tearout). However, if shooting end grain, then the LA Jack wins as it has a lower cutting angle and more mass than a #3.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## gargey (Apr 11, 2016)

> Just curious, how many of you guys bashing the new Stanley Sweetheart stuff actually own them? I like the ones I have and the low angle jack is basically the only one I don t have. I have the shoulder plane and I like it, just wish it was a bit bigger to make it easier to hold. I ve got a low angle block and it s got the opposite problem where it s just a bit too big to hold in one hand. I also have the smoother and it s a fine plane, I just don t like Norris Style Adjusters. All three hold an edge really well and they were flat out of the box.
> 
> - mramseyISU


Don't recall if already mentioned in this post, but the lacquer coating on Stanley Sweetheart chisels (I do own a few) loudly demonstrates that they're not in tune with hand tool work.

Makes you think they see other successful products and know "what" they should be, but not "why."


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## bridgerberdel (Dec 31, 2014)

not bashing anything just reporting. the only "new sweetheart" plane i have is a low angle block. it's all wrong. too heavy, thick a2 iron in a low angle plane, pita norris adjuster. i think i used it once or twice. I have… ummm… several block planes, including some vintage cheapies. I'll reach for those before the "new sweatheart" anyday.


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## WayneC (Mar 8, 2007)

I would not consider the new sweetheart line a premium plane. More of a second tier modern plane

Custom planes 
1st. Tier LN, Veritas, Bridge City
2nd Tier Woodriver, Luban, Stanley Sweetheart
3rd Tier Stanley, Buck, etc.
4th tier Harbor frieght and some cheap knock-offs

This can be refined but it's kind of how I think about it. Planes on any tier can be made to work.

I would put vintage Stanley, Union, Millers Falls, Sargent, Ohio and their re branded planes in tier two.


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## bbasiaga (Dec 8, 2012)

You definitely don't NEED a new premium plane to get the job done. But if you don't get them, you do need to know how to set up, check out, and tune what you do get. When I was trying to figure out handplanes and if I'd use them or not, I got a couple of vintage. It mostly turned out poorly because I didn't know enough about what to look for when I bought them. Good thing they were cheap. Now that I know some more, I can pick them out better. But it took getting a restored plane from an LJ, and eventually a new plane from LN to really understand enough to get the vintage set up and working myself.

I only have a new LN low angle jack, an LV medium shoulder plane, and the LV router plane. All else is vintage for me. I plan to ask for an LN bronze #4 because I'm obsessed with the beauty and can get it with a high angle frog, and maybe some specialty planes from the LV. Besides that I'm trying not to turn in to DonW jr the second (Fridge may be DonW Jr the first based on his above post) messing around with old stuff. Its cheap, and I don't use planes very much so I can justify cheap ones more easily.

Brian


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