# WHO'S BEEN THROUGH THE GRIZZLY MACHINERY PHASE.



## twiceisnice (Aug 29, 2010)

NEW TO WOODWORKING , AS I WALKED INTO THE GRIZZLY STORE , I WAS LIKE WOW. LOOK AT ALL THIS STUFF.THEY HAVE EVERYTHING. THE PRICES ARE SO MUCH CHEAPER THAN OTHER MANUFACTURES. I CAN PURCHASE 2 OR 3 MACHINES FOR THE PRICE OF A POWERMATIC ,DELTA SAWSTOP, SCMI, SAFETYSPEEDCUT,AND OTHERS. SO I GOT THE G1023 TABLE SAW TO START. SOFT CAST IRON . THE ROUGH CUT WOOD I WAS SLIDING THROUGH WAS EATING AWAY THE CAST IRON. ALOT OF BACKLASH IN HAND WHEEL CONTROLS. SOFT HARDWARE. NEXT WAS THE G1026 SHAPER . SOFT CAST IRON , SOFT HARDWARE , SPINDLE MOVED WHEN LOCKING, BACKLASH IN HANDWHEEL ADJ. HAD A SHOP SHOPFOX 3 HP SHAPER TOO . SAME PROBLEMS, JUST LOOKED BETTER. NEXT GO609X JOINTER SOFT CAST IRON , MOJOR BACKLASH IN HANDWHEELS ,FENCE HAD SLIGHT TWIST , INFEED OUTFEED TABLES WERE SLIGHTLY OFF . WENT TO ADJUST THE BUSHINGS AFTER UNLOCKING SET SCREWS THE BUSHINGS TOTALLY DISINTEGRATED. SO I LOADED IT UP AND TOOK IT TO GRIZZLY. IT TOOK THEM A MONTH TO REPLACE BUSHINGS AND REALIGN . AS I WAS LOOKING AT THE FLOOR MODEL I NOTICED THE BUSHINGS HAD NO PLACE WHERE YOU COULD PUT A WRENCH ON TO ADJUST THE INFEED AND OUTFEED TABLES . I TOLD THE SALESMEN OF THE PROBLEM. SO IF YOU ORDER ONE , MAKE SURE YOU ASK IF IT HAS THE RIGHT BUSHINGS. I DID LIKE THE SPIRAL CUTTERHEAD 100%. ENOUGH SAID ON THAT. G1071 SPINDLE SANDER IS OK . SOFT CAST IRON , SMALLER SPINDLES WOBBLE. O YEA, WRENCHES. STAMPED WRENCHES. AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO THROWS THEM OUT AFTER ONE USE OR DOES EVERYONE POUND THEM BACK INTO PLACE WITH A HAMMER? GO441 3 HP DUST COLLECTOR . I DO LIKE THE DUST COLLECTOR. 1 PROBLEM . AS I COMPLETED MY DUCTWORK I WAS ANXIOUS TO TRY IT OUT . I TURNED IT ON AND NOTICED A STRANGE SOUND. MY BAG SUCKED INTO THE CYCLONE TANK. %#[email protected] I HOOKED THE INLET TO THE OUTLET. I COULD'NT HAVE . SO I LOOKED IN THE GRIZ BOOK TO SEE WHAT IS WRONG . IF YOUR GOING TO USE A GARBAGE BAG FOR YOUR SAWDUST IN THE HOLDING BIN YUO NEED A SLEEVE THAT FITS IN IT. INSTED OF PAYING THEIR PRICE , I WENT TO THE LOCAL TIN FAB SHOP TO MAKE ME ONE UP CHEAPER . SO IF YOU ORDER THE DUST COLLECTOR DONT FORGET THAT. GO544 20" SPIRAL PLANER . I'M OK WITH THIS FOR RIGHT NOW , BUT SOON TO BE REPLACED . LOVE THE SPIRAL CUTTERHEAD. . RAN ALOT OF HARDWOOD THROUGHT THIS PLANER WITH MINIMAL PROBLEMS . I RATE THIS PLANER VERY HIGH. CON WEAK MOTORS ,SOFT HARDWARE. THATS ENOUGH SAID ON THIS . I READ ALOT OF POSTS LIKE GRIZZLY VS POWERMATIC ,DELTA, SAWSTOP ,SO ON AND SO ON. YOU CANNOT COMPARE ONY OF THESE MACHINES TO GRIZZLY UNTIL YOU HAVE PHYSICALLY USED THEM. SO TO THE NEWBIE . SAVE YOUR MONEY AND PURCHASE THE BEST MACHINERY YOU CAN BUY. YOUR RESALE VALUE WILL REMAIN HIGH. TRY AVOIDING MAIL ORDER MACHINERY. GO TO YOUR LOCAL WOOD WORKING MACHINERY DEALER LIKE HERMANCE MACHINERY, JG MACHINERY, KH MACHINE YOUR SERVICE WILL BE ALOT BETTER AND KNOWLEDGE OF PROBLEMS WILL BE SOLVED. THEY HAVE SERVICE TECHS THAT WILL COME TO YOUR HOUSE . THAT BEATS LOADING UP YOUR MACHINERY AND HAVING IT DELIVERED WAITING FOR A MONTH OR MORE TO GET IT BACK. WELL THATS MY EXPERIENCE WITH GRIZZLY MACHINERY. IM READY FOR THE BEATING.


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## vernonator (Feb 21, 2011)

Dude…stop yelling - turn off your caps, and add a few paragraphs/breaks your post is unreadable.


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

1. you have a lot of good content in your post, but it's very hard to read - turn off the caplock and use paragraphs. otherwise the people that might benefit from this post might not be able to read it through

2. for some folks 'get the best machine you can get' equals getting a grizzly 3hp TS or other grizzly machine - this is their 'best' in their budget. when the budget is ~1500 you cannot buy a $4000 powermatic.

3. I think you made some very valid points there that show why the grizzly machines are cheaper than their equivalent (on spec) powermatics/deltas/scmi/hammer/minimax/and the list goes on. for hobby work I think it would work well, for a professional shop that relies on those machines to run day and night maybe not so much so. that said - todays powermatics are made offshore - not much different than grizzly although they MAY have better quality control in place. are you referring to new powermatics? or the old made-in-the-usa machines? very different products bearing the same name.

good info nonetheless.

for what it's worth - I have a grizzly machine, and it does use softer hardware, but for my once in a while use its not an issue and the price made it possible for me to have it which would otherwise have not been the case.


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## twiceisnice (Aug 29, 2010)

D


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

For a while I thought you were gonna be saying that you were goin' back to Craftsman tools.
I'll stick with my Grizz stuff.FWIW.
Bill


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## Cosmicsniper (Oct 2, 2009)

I hope somebody else can answer this, because I'm OUT!


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## Manitario (Jul 4, 2010)

YO BUDDY, I CAN'T HEAR YOUR MESSAGE OVER THE SOUND OF YOUR COMPUTER SHOUTING AT ME!!!


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## CarlFisher (Aug 16, 2011)

Sorry, wrong post…


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## rustfever (May 3, 2009)

Someone else has seen the same problems I saw. I stopped buying/using Griz product before I had many dollars invested. Only 3 pieces of equipment and one warrentee request, and I was no longer in their camp [bandsaw, mortiser, shaper].

Exclusively use the good stuff now.


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## twiceisnice (Aug 29, 2010)

I have a budget. Theres the now budget and theres save your money to get a good one.


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

I don't bother reading all caps. Waste of my time trying to figure out what's being said.


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## wasmithee (Jan 10, 2011)

Nice feedback. I've enjoyed my Grizzly 12" jointer, though I am a hobby user.

For everyone's benefit I reformatted your screaming post into something a bit more legible:


> (twiceisnice)
> New to woodworking , as i walked into the grizzly store , i was like wow. Look at all this stuff. They have everything. The prices are so much cheaper than other manufactures. i can purchase 2 or 3 machines for the price of a powermatic ,delta sawstop, scmi, safetyspeedcut,and others.
> 
> So I got the g1023 table saw to start. Soft cast iron. The rough cut wood i was sliding through was eating away the cast iron. A lot of backlash in hand wheel controls. Soft hardware.
> ...


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## twiceisnice (Aug 29, 2010)

Thank you WASMITHEE


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

Somehow I'm having trouble with the fact so many machines were defective at the same time.
Just my $.02


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## crank49 (Apr 7, 2010)

I'm sorry, but I've been an engineer in a foundry most of my career and "soft cast iron" does not exist. The better, more expensive grades might be considered "softer" than the really cheap stuff which is hard and brittle.

If you have lumber wearing out the surface of a cast iron table you need to look at your wood storage area. Must have dirt and or sand on your wood.

Now, as for control hardware, that can be soft, like A-36 steel instead of alloyed steel.

In the interest of full disclosure, I don't own a Grizzly tool, but I have one of the cheapest cast iron table saws on the market, a Craftsman, and I'd never say it was soft. Crappy fit and finish, designed on the bleeding edge of too light and flimsy to be useful, but it ain't soft. Probably comes from the same Asian factory as the Grizzly. I do know several woodworkers who have Grizzly saws that they just love.

Seems to me if you bought machines 7 times from Grizzly (thanks wasmithee for making the count possible) you would have noticed the problem before you filled up your shop. Makes me wonder what they did to piss you off. Just sayin.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

I got about 1/3 of the way through it. You gambled when you bought 7 machines for the price of three and you lost. It's not a unique story but I'm sorry for your experience. You should be able to unload them pretty easily. There are still plenty of people who really like Grizzly. I'm not one of them but that's not really relevant.


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## twiceisnice (Aug 29, 2010)

Grizzly did not piss me off. What i am saying is to the new woodworker who wants to establish a new shop is to fill it with good quality tools. 
Grizzly is a cheap alternative. I've experienced the grizzly phase. Budget, I have a budget . Like i said before. Theres a now budget and a save your money to buy the better tool.


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## danr (Sep 5, 2009)

Here is my input on Grizzly,

I have owned an operated 2 entry level machines from Grizzly for about 20 years now. I was sort of a beginner back in those days and did not have as much dough to spend and for that matter, did not really know how serious I would become about woodworking. My Grizzly machines are what they are and have served me ok over these years.

Today, I still consider Grizzly when researching a new tool purchase but mostly the higher end models. It appears to me that Grizzly offers a lot better quality product that it did 20 years ago. I think we all realize that most all of these wood working machines from many manufactures come from the same area, if not same factories in Tiawan and have lots of similarities if they are not identical, excluding paint and logos.

Having said that, would I buy another Grizzly tool? Maybe/maybe not. I think that the non-professional, and certainly the beginner, would always be smart to consider Grizzly. The price/performance of thier machines is squarely in the sweet spot for these individuals.


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## jerkylips (May 13, 2011)

maybe I'm reading too much into it, but something seems fishy about the original post. "new to woodworking" yet seems to have quite an understanding of what to look for, makes mention of how grizzly compares to powermatic, delta, etc. - if you're a "newbie" as you described, what is this comparison based on? It seems like an awful lot of stuff to buy at once if you're "just getting into" woodworking, let alone having problems with all of it. Sorry, I think there's another motive here..


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## PurpLev (May 30, 2008)

jerkylips - I think he meant that as in "when I was new to woodworking" at least that's how I read it - he is sharing his long term experience in his woodworking endevours FOR new folks getting started. he is well entitled to have an opinion on which many of the things he mentioned are true. not to say that other brands don't have the same issues these days… I dont see any conspiracy theories here.


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## Hartmann (Jun 28, 2010)

wow ok, I got it, this guy for sure work in a local wood working machinery dealer, just check out the olds post and you can fine a very good reason about what I'm thinking…. BTW say hello to all the people in HERMANCE MACHINERY, you are a great seller….. you earn your money this week, congra…..


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## Maverick44spec (Aug 7, 2011)

WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT US?

Grizzly tooks are ok, they're not the best or the worst. They are good for the price. I plan on filling my shop with a few grizzly tools, but for the most part, I will fill it full of Craftsman, Dewalt, Sawstop, and maybe a few Delta tools.


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## bobsmyuncle (Jan 12, 2011)

Same experience here. Bought a jig saw, won a belt/disk sander, bought a used drill press. No more Griz for me; had problems with all of them.

What I can't understand is they spend tons of money to buy full two-page spreads in the front of most every magazine I get. Yet their customer service stinks. It's a lot cheaper to keep a customer than to get a new one.

>Autumn sez: problems I've had with Grizzly tools: pot metal parts = trash. I won't even bother to mention poor machining, out-of-wack parts and poor customer service. I've had several Grizzly tools, and I would never buy another.

"There is hardly anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse
and sell a little cheaper, and those people who consider price only, are this man's lawful prey. It is unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much you lose a little money - that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot; it cannot be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better"

John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)


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## bigkev (Mar 16, 2011)

What kind of wood were you working with? It must have been petrified.

I have a 1023slw from Grizzly and it does everything I need it to and more. Put a Ridge Carbide 2000 blade on it and ot cuts 10/4 walnut like butter.

Last month I purchased a G0514×2b I think) 19" 3HP bandsaw. Put a timberwolf blade on it and it resaws 8" walnut like butter. Easy setup and delivered to my local UPS hub damage free in 48 hours. I couldn't be happier with the two Grizzly tools I have and see an 8" Griz jointer in my very near future.


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## Howie (May 25, 2010)

For a guy that went out and bought all this equipment I wonder what he intended to do with it. 394 days and not a project posted…...but qualified to review equipment!
Something smells and it isn't sawdust.

Maybe some pictures of all this equipment in your shop would help…....


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## tenontim (Feb 24, 2008)

I didn't bother to read your rant either. Another guy on here doesn't use periods, I don't read his stuff either.
But to put in my two cents worth, I usually read the tool reviews on equipment I thinking about buying. If it's rated good, I'll buy it. I've had a 15" Grizzly planer for about 6 years, used it in a commercial setting and it hasn't missed a beat. I'm thinking about dropping $600 into it for a shelix head upgrade. I think it will save me on blades in the long run. I have a Grizzly radial drill press that has been satisfactory, also. 
You just have to research what you want to buy. I have had some of their smaller tools that are junk.


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

WHY ARE YOU YELLING?


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Howie nailed it IMO.

"twiceisnice" not only has *NO projects* and *NO workshop* but:
*NO* Real Name
*NO* Location/Map - Not even state or country
*NO* Website
*NO* Favorites
*NO* Blogs

I guess this is just the new normal. So is this the new stealth,... establishing an account, letting it sit relatively dormant for a year and then rant on a particular product?


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## maljr1980 (Sep 4, 2011)

grizzly is ok for a hobbyist/homeowner lol, but you get what you pay for. not top quality but better than a craftsman. not everyone can afford an altendorf slider, or a hoffman cnc


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## twiceisnice (Aug 29, 2010)

HOWIE - My machines was not defective at the same time. It was over time.
CRANK49- Does not own any grizzly tools. I wonder why.
BERTHA- I hate selling faulty machinery to someone. thats not me.
DANR- They might come from the same factory , but the specs are different . You can buy a dodge ram 2 door or a dodge ram megacab. So the delta unisaw is similar to the grizzly saws .
JERKEYLIPS- When I was a newbie jerkeylips. I bought the tools over time . Theres no motive ,just giving my facts.
PERPLEV- Thank you for understanding.
HARTMANN- You are 100% wrong.
PARISWOODWORKING- Good choice on some of your tools.
AUTUMN- I praise you.
BOBSMYUNCLE- Nice
BIGKEV- When you get your jointer , get it with spiral cutterhead.
HOWIE- I absolutely do nothing with my tools. Nice sofa table . I like building sideboards or servers. mostly give to friends and relations.
TENONTIM- Good call on the spiral upgrade. If you would have read my post, I rated the 20" planer I have very high.
DBHOST- I'm not yelling.
HORIZONTILMIKE- Nice veritas bench vice . I have some of their hand planes. Good quality tools. I see you have pages of projects built. I like the chairs that are with the dropleaf table. Table looks great.
MALJR1980-True. You get what you pay for.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

The thing is, much of the Grizzly equipment is very similar to most other Asian imports…often coming from the same factories. There are differences to what gets bolted to the castings, but the castings are very similar between Jet, GI, Grizzly, Steel City, Shop Fox, Woodtek, some Delta, some PM, etc. Grizzly is less expensive mainly because there's no dealer markup, not because they're made cheaper. If you're willing to be your own middleman, there are legitimate savings there. If you want dealer support, pay the man (or woman). If you truly want higher end machinery, you need to step beyond the consumer names into the true industrial grade stuff that obviously costs a lot more….Altendorf, Martin, etc.


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## twiceisnice (Aug 29, 2010)

KNOTSCOTT- I agree . Don't forget about better electricals and motors.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

"Don't forget about better electricals and motors."

I don't know about that, but I sure like that 3hp Leeson motor in my G0690 TS. FWIW, I still think a lot of quality questions can be or are answered depending on where on each company's food change you are purchasing.

EVERY company seems to have a "price leader" at the bottom to get you in the door. In that sense, Grizzly is no different than any of the other manufacturers. My suggestion is to always shop a couple of models higher on the menu. My 2-cents…


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## BillWhite (Jul 23, 2007)

I'm very pleased with my two Grizz products. 0444Z TS and 1067Z lathe. I'll stay with their products until I'm let down.
I also like my Stanley planes after properly tuning them.
So there!
Bill


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## twiceisnice (Aug 29, 2010)

HorizontalMike So they did put some quality in the motor.


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## Bertha (Jan 10, 2011)

^Twice, I wasn't suggesting that you sell a DEFECTIVE product to a poor soul; but if you just don't LIKE the machine, judging by the popularity here, you shouldn't have trouble selling it.

I also agree with Mike about their range of offerings. Go to Mercedes and ask about a C250; then go back a week later and ask about a S550; see which coffee is better

I have friends who are very happy with both upper end Grizzly's and Grizzly metalworking tools.


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

first off i don't give a damn if you post in all caps i assume you made a mistake and the harping on it makes me sick. Grow up people we all are not as good at typing as you. secondly i am sorry you are disappointed in your choices, why don't you just sell the whole shop and start over.

I have to say the sad thing is American craftsmanship is dead. The tools made here are just as poor as the tools made in the shops of Asia. We are loosing the industrial race here people we need to change our work habits force the grocers and drug companies to stop raping us. We need to revamp our healthcare system and face it if we don't change soon we will be another Roman empire surviving well beyond our usefulness. When i was young made in America meant something. just because it is made here doesn't make it better, what made in America was about was what Ford, Chevy, Cadillac, or should i say Powermatic. Delta, Rockwell. The fact is Delta is the only one still made in the U.S.A.

I think we can still save America, but we will have to deflate our currency back to the Gold standard and we will have to work hard for less money many of us are already. We will have to rebuild American technology we need to support only American Companies and that means no excuses buy only made in America. Demand American companies make their goods here or you don't buy them this may mean finding new brands. For example my favorite Levis used to be made in California where did they go I notice the price of jeans didn't go down when they moved, all that happened was the company made more money.

As for those of you harping on this poor guy stop the bashing. i don't like bullies ill invite any of you to match wits with my son in law the great English professor. I could have him join LJ to come thrash you all for your bad writing and typing. just leave the guy alone and the first one of you that is perfect can bitch about my post.

I am sure i missed a period here and there forgive my ignorance .


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## bigkev (Mar 16, 2011)

Ignorance forgiven.


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## pierce85 (May 21, 2011)

Dude - take a look at his past posting behavior. The caps and lack of punctuation are not incidental. I also "don't give a damn" if he chooses to post in this fashion. I just won't read it…


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

is there a way to read only his posts i love lj but the board seems to lack features like view all of this persons posts. I will try to look but i see a guy who inst great at tech. maybe I am wrong but i don't mind the first guy saying that he typed with his caps on its the 10 posts of the same that i don't like .


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## ShaneA (Apr 15, 2011)

You can view his activity thru his "home".


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## therookie (Aug 29, 2010)

hey a 24" planer for $800 versus a 24" powermatic for 3900 I am going on the low side because I MAINTAIN amy and all equipment I have and use


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## thedude50 (Aug 13, 2011)

I tried that it doesn't take me to his post just to the thread . unless i am stupid!


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## wasmithee (Jan 10, 2011)

http://lumberjocks.com/twiceisnice/activity


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## twiceisnice (Aug 29, 2010)

THISISGOINGTOBEBIBLICAL. tHISIs GoIngto BeBIBLICAL. DANGIT This isgoing to BE biBLIcaL. %#

```
$ THIS IS GOOINGTOOO BE biBLIcal  %)&* this is going tobe biblical .  T'his is GO ING TO BE BIB LI CAL .  This is going to be biblical. I got it, holy%#$
```
 i can't believe it .


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

*Let us prey*


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## Tennessee (Jul 8, 2011)

I bought the Grizz G1043DX sprial cutterhead planer, 15" 
The motor burned out after about 15 minutes of running, Grizz sent me another. (I think just a cap died, but have not had the time to look into it.) I had to install it.
Then I could not get it to quit sniping. I know every planer has some sniping, but this was nuts. Book was no help, so I finally just put the bottom rollers down to .002 or less above the table and it solved the problem.
Had a friend who bought the same machine, he complained to me "How do I get all this grease off the cutter wheel?" 
I told him to wipe off as much as possible, then to put a 2X4 through the planer time and time again until it quits throwing grease. Problem solved!!
I think Grizz makes a great "budget" tool, which for a lot of us is all we'll ever get. For my money, I'll never walk into a Sears again after the experience I've had with their tools, and their famous warranty which didn't cover "sharpened edges", at least years ago when I tried to return a couple things that had failed.
Sorry, not a Craftsman guy…


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

*"Let us prey"*

LOL….that's good! :-D


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

cr1,
I hope you find one.


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Nah, I'm just a deadbeat buzzard scavenger. I let cr1 and Rex do all the dirty Preyin' 'N Killin' stuff. 
I like my meals for free.

*;-)*


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## mcase (Oct 31, 2009)

Soft iron? I really noticed this on my Industrial Sawstop table saw (almost $4,000.00). It seems to scratch and wear more readily than my past table saws. Compare this to my $850.00 Grizzly G0490 jointer which has no noticeable wear. The Griz by the way has PLENTY of power. Its also dead flat which never seems to be the case with the new Powermatics. Fit and finish seem ok too, certainly on par with the new Deltas. Two years and its fine. Ask me again in eight years. If it last that long I got my $850 worth.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

And to think that all these years gone by I though a Saw Stop was a couple of concrete blocks. I guess I'll have to find a new name for the blocks.


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## wiswood2 (Apr 12, 2008)

I got 15 grizzly tools, some 18 years old. I have only had 1 warrenty , they took care of it. new part in 4 days, it was a stwicth that went bad.I am very happy with all of my tools.Chuck


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## HorizontalMike (Jun 3, 2010)

Anyway, to get back on track, I have TWO Grizzlys, a G0690 TS w/router extension, and a G0593 8in Jointer w/spiral-head cutter.

Both Grizzly machines are much better than my talents and something to grow into. Not to be blinded by a Grizzly , my bandsaw purchase during the same time frame was a 14in Rikon Deluxe 10-325. I do try to keep my eyes open for best tool and price/bargain in a sector.


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## doncutlip (Aug 30, 2008)

First let me say I am just a hobbyist but I have a nearly all Grizzly shop. I live close enough that I can drive up there (Muncy). I love what I have bought there; 14 inch bandsaw, 2HP dust collector with cannister, 3/4 hp drill press and just recently a table saw. I think the quality is great, the stuff goes together well and is aligned at the factory. Compared to other vendors, well, isn't all this stuff made in pretty much the same place by pretty much the same people? OK, some of my stuff is made in Taiwan and some in China and I do believe there is a difference there, but they're probably all getting parts from the same place. As for delivery, I ordered my table saw on a Thursday and by Friday it was at the local UPS place and they were calling me to arrange final delivery, could not have been faster. If you have had a bad expeience with them, well, we are all human. Now I won't say they're perfect; one time I had a clerk help me pick out bandsaw blades and he sold me the wrong ones. Once back home, 120 miles away, I called them and they said I'd have to pay shipping and restocking fee! In the end I did have to pay shipping but they sent me an discount coupon so I'm OK with that.


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## teejk (Jan 19, 2011)

I don't own Grizz but wonder if some of the "flaws" were due to poor set-up in the store? I've seen that on display models where they don't devote the same amount of time that an owner would. just a guess.


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## Billp (Nov 25, 2006)

Im just a hobbyist, I have a 8" jointer,Band saw,13" planer,10"slow speed grinder,shop fox mortiser all grizzley. Would have loved to bought first class but just not in the budget. I've made a lot of neat stuff for my grand kids and have been able to buy some wood . I have had this equipment for about four years, not one problem. So if you are a hobbyist without deep pockets I highly recommend Grizzley.


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## ruel24 (Feb 14, 2012)

I just joined this forum, so please excuse the fact that this thread is just about dead and I'm posting anyway. I just had to offer my $.02US…

I'm interested in getting some machinery and taking up woodworking. It's long been a desire of mine, but until recently, an unobtainable dream. I've done a lot of investigation into the reviews and forum comments on just about every brand out there. I've seen tools from every manufacturer lambasted for poor quality - even Powermatic. I've seen where people paid good money to get a Powermatic PWBS-14CS bandsaw only for the milling to be off on the riser block and customer service had THEM remill the holes, the saw getting easily bogged down despite 1-1/2hp rating, and the fence was reported to be pretty much a throw-away as plastic tabs come off and can't be reglued. I've read articles with problems with the machining on the new Delta Unisaws. I've read lots of complaints about the Jet JP-12 jointer/planer with beds coming out of alignment, a junk fence, and motors overheating. My point is that you'll have some of these issues with any brand you buy. Sounds to me as if the original poster just has a beef with Grizzly.

I've looked around at a lot of brands. Some brands even ship the exact same machine as Grizzly, with a panel or two a little different and some different paint for more money. Many of the machines sold by General International (not the Canadian-made stuff) look identical to Grizzly machines but something here or there is different, such as longer planer table extensions. I'm willing to bet it's the exact same machine and because you pay more for the General name, you'll feel as if you got a higher quality machine.

Grizzly has gotten some good testimonials about their customer service. Frankly, I'm looking long and hard at them because I can't afford to plunk down almost $20K for a bunch of Powermatic machinery, when I can put down about 9K for Grizzly. Maybe I can afford a Powermatic or Delta machine or two in there, particularly a tablesaw, but realistically, it's just not something in the budget for someone who doesn't make a living at woodworking.

Obviously, some Grizzly machines are better than others. I'm not ready to make a purchase just yet, but when I do, I'm going to stick with machines that have a great track record and machines that have great reviews.


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Welcome;
You will find there are many LJs here that will give you great information and advice on Grizzly products.
I use them and quite frankly I believe they are the best bang for the buck, well made, long lasting, great service and above all else, on par with all those other premium tools trading on their past products' good name.
Whether you make a living @ woodworking or just have it as a hobby, Grizzly is the best bet. Don't take my word for it, I'm sure many others will concur.
Good luck.


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## lazyoakfarm (Sep 28, 2010)

I am new to woodworking and bought all Grizzly in November 2011. over 4K. Jointer, Planer, drill press, bandsaw, Dust Collection… I read posts about "soft"iron beds and it seems that most people said all you have to do is keep it waxed really good with Renaissance wax. I noticed my Ridgid table saw had some wear and does not seem to be getting any worse now that I am keeping a good coat of wax on it..

Yes, the Grizzly tools are cheaper. I would like to see the motor mounts of my planer and Jointer redesigned and my drill press is a little under powered, but I got an entire shop full of tools that will probably last me a life time. If they dont, and when it comes time to replace one at a time, I will look at some higher end options along with Grizzly.


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## ssnvet (Jan 10, 2012)

Life is a never ending cost benefit analysis.

For many people, the benefit side is tilted towards ego stroking.

I know a hobby woodworker who filled his new shop with all powermatic tools….. which sit unused most of the time… But he sure struts like a peacock to tell you how great his equipment is (the same guy has a safe full of high dollar guns he never shoots).

Some of us have competing priorities (feeding the kids is always a good thing), and have to stretch the dollars. This can be done in a lot of ways. Shopping used…. fixing up oldies but goodies… having fewer machines… or … shock… buying discount brands.

I'm thankful that Grizzly is out there to poke a bubble in the market baloon and keep the other players honest. Lord knows it all comes from Asia these days and Tawain is still a serious step up from China.

I'll shop all the sources available to me and buy based on the merits of the machine and not any brainwashed brand snobbery hogwash.

Humility is a very freeing concept, and my recommendation is that people be honest with themselves about what their skill levels are, what projects they are likely to undertake, and what legitimate needs those projects present.

The internet is breeding a generation of "experts" who have never really done anything in their lives. Just as an illustration, we were talking guns at work the other day and our young intern (who's mother won't let his father have a firearm in the house) proceeded to correct my co-worker (who just spent six years in the USMC reserves, where he was marksmanship coach) about how the M16 works. I'm sorry, but 10,000 hours spent playing "Call of Duty" doesn't qualify you to correct people who have been there, smelt the smoke, tasted the dirt and felt their sweaty palms slipping the plastic grip.


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## ruel24 (Feb 14, 2012)

Well, thanks for the welcome mat! I'm still looking into getting into it. I have some free space in the basement, and I could put everything on mobile bases. I'm mainly interested, right now, in arts and craft style furniture. I'm just in love with the style and it seems like something someone of no skills could learn to do. Seems to me that when I furniture shop, mentioning arts and crafts gets you ushered to mission furniture, but there's so much more to it than that. So, I'm interested in learning how to do it myself.

Anyway, enough about me. I guess I'd just have to get a few basic machines to start: Table saw, bandsaw, drill press, router table, dust collection, and some hand planes, chisels, and saws and such as well as a basic workbench. I'll probably worry more about it after I get married within the next 2 months. Hopefully there will be some sales running by then. Prices sure have seemed to jump in the last year. I got a Grizzly catalog sent to my house, and I've been looking at it a lot.

I do have one question: I see they Grizzly G1023RLX tablesaw only has 8 inches of capacity to the left of the blade. How important is this? Most other saws tend to have a lot more.


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## sthomas (Jan 20, 2012)

Whats the saying? "A poor craftsman blames his tools"


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## Roger Clark aka Rex (Dec 30, 2008)

Here you go guys, step in and give our new friend some help on his decisions.


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## wncguy (Jan 26, 2012)

ruel24 - I'm pretty much in the same place as you… looking at several Grizz items, 1023RLW TS, 0555 BS, hopefully an 8" Jointer & perhaps their dust collection. Would use the 5% off coupon code on the back of the 2012 catalog. 
I am also looking into bases, but I've heard some of the Shop Fox bases they have are not good for the heavier equipment - have you found anything in your search?
Good luck, hope I have the same.


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## ruel24 (Feb 14, 2012)

Haven't seen anything about the mobile bases, and honestly, it didn't occur to me. That's definitely something to think about…


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## Finn (May 26, 2010)

I cannot afford a rolls Royce so I buy a Ford. I have had some great Grizzly stuff and some lousy. I have had some good Fords and some lousy. Never had a Rolls though.


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## davekennedy (Jan 15, 2012)

I cant complain, I have owned my grizz g1023 for 15 yrs and never a problem. Also belt /disc sander and 6×47jointer. Check your country of origin on the powermatic equip! Just about all manufactures are outsourced now.


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## woodymays (Jun 10, 2009)

I have concidered Grizzly many times, but never bought Grizzly. And as for the soft cast iron I agree with crank49. I own a craftsman table saw ever since I started woodworking and it has done okay, but the cast iron is not wearing away. Craftsman tools are not the best but you get what you pay for, junk or well made machinery. Also, what material is harder, Cast iron or wood? Someone just doesn't know what he is talking about.

My brother-in-law has a grizzly table saw and he likes his, but for the bandsaw not as well.

Anyway, as everyone may know, twiceisnice has no projects to show. How bogus is that?


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## Straightbowed (Feb 9, 2012)

I have a 1023sl table saw never had a problem with it but I take care of my equipment keep every thing waxed and oiled and blowed out But I buy forrest blades and take them to my old freind to be sharpened brand new out of the box they cut like butter when he gets done with them and I dont know what he does but it works YES GRIZZLY is good just make sure when U get it delivered U unlaod it yurself and cleanit up and adjust everthing accordingly


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## Straightbowed (Feb 9, 2012)

the sawstop is overpriced overrated that saw is for idiots just make some good pushsticks and saw away if i WAS buying a saw it would be delta or powermatic but I can only afford griz but I love my saw but get the extended fence if u buy its not that much more and it is practical go grizzly


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## EastLake (Mar 11, 2014)

A couple of things. Never heard of "soft" cast iron.

1. There is Powermatic, and everything below it. Unless you are a production shop with an established name and client base, and monthly production and sales quotas, you probably aren't even going to consider a Powermatic. That means you fall into the Grizzly, Jet, General, Delta, Craftsman category. I won't even talk about Delta and Craftsman as they are basically the same stamped steel type equipment.

In my estimation, Grizzly is the best bang for the buck (and multiple issues of Popular Woodworking, Fine Woodworking, and Wood Magazine reviews will corroborate this) and comes out of the same factories that Jet and General do, and don't let anyone tell you any different.

2. Grizzly is not for the average user. If you want something that you can just plug in and run, then get a Delta or Craftsman and downsize the type of projects you do. Don't trust the Chinese or the Taiwanese to get the assembly perfect or stay perfect in shipping. Better to go over the WHOLE machine out of the crate.

3. Grizzly's need tuning like the rest, you need to adjust your guide bearings, square up your shaper fences, and on occasion condition your cast iron tops. Another novel idea is to customize your equipment to suite your work style. Heck, I just built a pre-separator for my 1 HP dust collector out of a metal drum, took off the bag, and ported the exhaust outside. Plenty of power to handle my 15 inch planer. Tonight, I am taking the spindle apart to find out why I get a little chatter, no biggie.


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## bowedcurly (Aug 31, 2013)

some people can take a pile rocks and build a castle some people just throw them in the fencerow!!!


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## Elizabeth (Oct 17, 2009)

Be aware this thread is about two and a half years old, barring the last couple of posts.


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## EastLake (Mar 11, 2014)

I noticed. But had to chime in, having just been to Grizzly and bought a whole bunch o' stuff after extensive research. Thanks for the heads up.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Many Powermatic machines are made with the same design, in the same factory as their Grizzly counterparts.


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## Grandpa (Jan 28, 2011)

Just because something is built in the same factory, it doesn't make the quality the same. I worked a summer in a factory there they made rubber hoses of all sizes and descriptions. When we had a surface blemish it was run through a buffer that too off some of the thickness then we died the hose. We rolled on a new companies name because it still met their spec. It longer met our spec but it met theirs so we sold it.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

If we were talking about hoses made in the US, that might be relevant. As a manufacturing engineer, I know a thing or two about specs. While some of the minor details might be different the castings are the same and it's less expensive to send them all through the same processes held to the highest specification than create multiple processes that could be a few cents cheaper per part. Scaling to create savings on such a small difference in margins would have to be much larger than it is.


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## EastLake (Mar 11, 2014)

Interesting. See folks, this is how you breathe new life into a topic over 2 years old.

Bigblockyeti, make a lot of sense. So where does the cost difference come from if, for the most part, much of these machines are similar in the manufacturing process? Metal is the same, castings the same, general design is the same.


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## bigblockyeti (Sep 9, 2013)

Marketing and reputation, the Powermatic name is worth more from a licensing standpoint because they have been in the business longer. Case in point, the Rockwell power tool name has been revived and is on a number of tools now. The rights to the name were purchased because of their former reputation. I don't doubt that if a minor defect was found in a casting that still fell within specification, it would be more likely painted with Grizzly or JET colors than Powermatic.


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## knotscott (Feb 27, 2009)

*"So where does the cost difference come from if, for the most part, much of these machines are similar in the manufacturing process?"*

In Grizzly's case, at least some of the savings come from not paying dealer markup and offering a shorter warranty. Even though the castings on some tools may come from the same factory, the stuff that gets bolted onto the castings isn't necessarily the same….it's logical to think you might get a more robust motor, better switch, or nicer fence on a PM vs similar Grizzly, but am not so sure about GI, Jet, Baliegh, some Laguna, etc….it really depends on the individual tool in question. The Grizzly G0690 is literally the same saw as a Baleigh and former Laguna Platinum, but has historically sold for $300-$400 less.


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## dbhost (Jul 20, 2009)

WHY ARE YOU YELLING?


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## bbc557ci (Sep 20, 2012)

What'd ya say??


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## bbc557ci (Sep 20, 2012)

FWIW…Many years ago when Delta was the big dog in town a guy (tool salesman) told me that allot of the name brand tools were manufactured in the same country, and same plant/building as the cheapies. At the time Griz and Relient were a couple of new kids on the block, and were considered by many as the cheapies, and were considered of less quality than Delta, PM, and the like. He said each company had their own engineers on site, that were supposed to ensure that tolerances were up to the specs that each company expected. Don't know if that was or is totally true….it's only what I was told.


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## EastLake (Mar 11, 2014)

Makes sense, Bill. Glad to see someone else on who is not from The City.

Its funny, I remember when Cooper tires first started marketing and I was like "I don't want those, gimme something I recognize." Now they are just as expensive as Goodyear, Dunlop, or any of the other big name brands. That's why I never discredit startup companies.

Speaking of which, anyone have any experience with Oliver tools (Dark Blue). I saw an ad in WWJ and thought they looked good. Once again, another piece of machinery made along side PM and Griz, and painted another color.


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## diversity210 (Oct 26, 2016)

Grizzly tools can be used in a professional everyday environment. I know because I own their G0691 and use it every single day with out fault and I love it. Grizzly is like any other company. They make some good stuff and they make some bad stuff. You just have to do your research and know what to buy. Like their dust collectors are garbage. For dust collection I stick with jet. They have never failed me in that area. I also wouldn't purchase any of their lower end table saws like the G0771 or the G0715P

Before I purchased the Grizzly G0691 3hp table saw. I did a lot of research on saws. Looking at the most popular brands availible like delta, powermatic, jet, sawstop, and a few others. In my research the one thing I found was that most of these tools are built in the same vicinity and a lot of them in the same factories. Now with tools like powermatic and jet. You have to understand that 25-30 percent of that price is branding. That name alone drives the prices up. Does not have much to do with quality, components, warranty, or otherwise. When I took a look at the specs on saw for many of them the specs where exactly the same if not very similar. The warranties were exactly the same and in some cases better. Affordability was not an issue because I had already saved about 3 grand for a new table saw, but after doing my research I figured why pay twice as much for the pretty much the same product. The only ones that differed significantly was sawstop. Their saws are some of the more expensive on the market and people love them. I understand the safety factor of owning one, but all the added tech just seemed like more to go wrong and with the table saw being the primary tool in most wood shops the last thing you want is for it to go down. Grizzly offers a great selection of accessories and easily accessible parts for their tools. Their customer service is also renowned. I have heard a few bad stories of their customer service but 95 percent of the reviews you read. Grizzly great customer service is a selling point and it really is great in my experience. No sales people just trying to get you to buy more products. No rude reps that seem like they are in a rush or just dont want to talk to you. No hassle when something goes wrong and you need to contact them. No long waits on hold. Their freight charges are pretty low. 150 bucks to ship a 500 pound table saw is pretty low. These are the reasons I purchased the grizzly table saw that I have used everyday since and am in love with.

I also own their G0513ANV band saw. Its nothing special and yes there are some things about it that could be better, but the thing still operates great and for 900 bucks you just cant beat it. Now I do not know what grizzly products were like back in 2011 when this thread started, but I do know that some of Grizzly tools are some of the best selling on the market today. That does not lack reason. Some might think its because of the cheaper price, but junk is junk. Information moves so fast these days that no matter the price if something truly is not worth it. People will stop buying it.


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## bobbg (May 24, 2017)

Just bring that stuff to my house I'll take it for you and you can buy the Powermatic and sawstop stuff.
But I'm going to tell you they are all made in the same factory.

I like the Grizzly tools I have. Its built better then what Craftsman had to offer I also have a 1023Z I got the first year they came out. It still brand new I've yet to plug it in in the 14-16 years I've owned it. I use my RAS made by sears
or my Porter cable job saw. I don't have 240 in my garage until I get a new panel installed and wires ran I won't be running the 1023Z.
Yes I'd love to have a sawstop, or a Powermatic, I've ran a powermatic it was falling apart and it was an American built machine, My old bosses Delta saw did a better job, and the Craftsman we replaced the worn out powermatic with worked better too. But then we cut tons of MDF sheet goods on these saws.
Tools wear out that's the simple fact. Even hand planes made 100 years ago wore out from use.
You use it until you can't get the quality out of it you expect anymore and replace it. Cross your fingers and hope the new one is better. I'd almost bet the wood outlast the metal unless termites get to it.
How many 200 year old table saws do you see? Now how often do you see a turn of the century pec of finiture?

One question? If metal is so strong then why do sawblades get dull? They are made out of carbide, the only thing tougher is a diamond. but even a diamond would wear out and it won't cut wood.


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