# Leigh D4R



## Bonka (Apr 13, 2012)

I am having a terrible time getting acceptable results using the directions in the user''s guide.
It should be fully understood that I have a very limited mechanical mind. I'm not crying the blues that is just a matter of information. I am past doing things backwards which I expected and dealt with.
I am using two fixed base Bosch 1617 routers with two 7/16'' guide bushings and No. 80-8 bit and No. 140-8 bits each in separate routers.
When I adjust the the fingers on the TD Pin mode to adjust for fit I notice the bit only removes wood on the right side. The two boards fit together but remain a little sloppy and I either get things a little too tight or just a little sloppy. I have moved the finger assembly infinitesimal amounts but I still get wood removal only on the right side and unacceptable fits.
I am using BORG pine boards 3/4'' until I get a snug fit and will move on to hard wood to tune it up if needed.
Could there be a concentric problem? I used a device that came with an aftermarket base plate and have another one coming as it appears to be more sturdy.

Thank you.


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## pintodeluxe (Sep 12, 2010)

I've been through the problems and fixes on all different brand dovetail jigs. The Achilles heel of the Leigh system is the variable diameter guide bushing. It works (sort of) as long as you don't rotate the router. Sounds like you're using a fixed diameter guide bushing, and making adjustments on the jig. That's a fine way to go.

Interestingly the worst days I've had with my Leigh jigs (I have three) were with a Bosch router and aftermarket sub-base. So make sure you're guide bushing is centered on the router. Also, not all guide bushings are created equal. Some are machined perfectly round, and that's the type you need for dovetails. I get the brass ones from Whiteside. I'm not sure the metal process on the other type of bushing, if they're stamped or cast, but the machined ones are more accurate. Whatever you use, check the lip of the guide bushing to make sure it is within .001 of stated size, and that it is a true circle.

Of all my brands of jigs, I get the worst results with the Leigh. It boils down to the individual fingers not laying perfectly flat. It causes discrepancies that are transferred to your work. That, and the inherent weakness in the E-bush. I mean it boggles the mind how bad of a system it is.

Surprisingly, I get spot-on results with the little Porter Cable jig, however it's limited to fixed spacing. 
For variable spaced dovetails I use an Akeda jig. Sadly it's not being made right now, but it fixed all the issues I had with the other jigs. Just an absolute pleasure to use.

So I would say focus on checking that your guide bushing is true, and re-centering the guide bushing on the router. Also, switch over to hardwood scraps. Softwoods are a whole different game.

Finally… and this is a big one… only make one pass on each part. What I mean is don't rout a part, then make jig adjustments and cut it again. Instead use scraps to test the jig setting. If it doesn't fit, cut the end off the scrap board and try again. Especially if you re-position the board in the jig, it's just asking for fitment issues. 
Good luck!


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## Bonka (Apr 13, 2012)

Thank you. I will start the elimination process tomorrow.


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## BurlyBob (Mar 13, 2012)

Jerry, do I ever remember the issues I had getting use to my D4. That jig is terribly unforgiving. I had to get it right down to a gnat's a$$. I had trouble with the wood moving in the jig and ended up applying wet/dry sand paper to all the contact points.. That seemed to help greatly. One thing I also learned that you can rotate the router the least little bit during a cut. Also the bit had to centered exactly. Man it was just one thing after another. I even had to deal with router bits torgueing out of the collet. I called the company and didn't get what I thought was very helpful assistance. I remember the guy telling me something like, it's all in the geometry. That was super helpful.

I did get some helpful advice from Fred Hargis. He might be a good resource for you.

Best of Luck.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I assume you are making through dovetails.

One suggestion is to make certain the router bits are centered in the bushing.

I do not try to adjust a fit on an already routed board but make an adjustment and rout a new board.

The fit adjustment is made by changing the position of the finger setup in and out. Make certain both ends are in the same position and record the positions and result with each try.

A couple of other things I backgrounds to check carefully that the board is correctly aligned. I put adhesive backed sand paper on the bars that clamp the piece.. I also added a center tightening clamp to both bars. You want to be certain your board does not move.

Take a deep breath and follow the instructions and videos. I have made many dovetails with mine..It works but takes a bit of learning.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Any jig as versatile as the Leigh DT jig is going to be a little tough to use. I started over with mine and went back and reset everything from scratch using the manual as a guide. After that I made sure my bushing was perfectly centered around the router bit (very important). Than I found sliding the router across the fingers was not s smooth as I wanted…I waxed my router base plate and took extra care to keep the router steady as I worked across the fingers. I'm able to get perfect DY joints with this, but as a last resort i can tell you Leigh is very helpful if you have a specific question/problem. They've heard it all and will probably have the solution right off the top of their head. That said, my jig doesn't get daily or even monthly use….every time I use it I go through the learning process again.


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## EarlS (Dec 21, 2011)

I'm getting ready to use a retrofitted D4R Pro for the first time after having used an 18" SuperJig for several years. I have 24 drawer boxes to dovetail. Sounds like I should plan on thoroughly reading and re-reading the instruction manual before I set it up and then expect some trial and error on the initial set up.


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## splintergroup (Jan 20, 2015)

I have a DR4 that I've used a few times with good results, but I'm definitely still a novice level user. I'm watching this thread for all the good tips. The addition of some grabby paper to the clamping surfaces is the first thing I'll do, I recall things slipping slightly during test cuts and giving me grief.


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## Bonka (Apr 13, 2012)

Would poplar be considered hard enough for using for setup? Or should I use something such as red oak? I do not have any cut offs of other species.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

I think poplar would be better than pine. I find that each type of wood may need a slightly different set up to get the same fit. The router bit leaves a different surface roughness with different types of wood.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Poplar is almost always what I use to setup, though in all honesty most of my drawer boxes are also poplar (which is where most of my DT joints end up).


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## LesB (Dec 21, 2008)

The jig does need patience to set up. The biggest problem as I diagnosed it was with the guide bushing. When I changed from the dove tail bit to the straight bit the guide bushing on the router base usually ended up in an ever so slightly different orientation relative to the guides on the jig (in other words it was not exactly centered on the router base) which caused the alignment of the tails and pins to be slightly off. I haven't found a fool proof cure for this. ....Actually I have found a cure; I bought a PantoRouter which is much easier to set up and works great. Only draw back is it won't do extra wide boards in just one set up like the Leigh.


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## Bonka (Apr 13, 2012)

I finally have come to the conclusion that the Leigh DR4 is not for me. I cannot begin to tell you how many hours and lumber I have wasted with unacceptable results. Leigh customer care has been great but I have tried everything they have recommended to no avail.
I bought it years ago with the aim to do half blind DT. I tried doing TD and had little luck. Now that I am not working I thought I would give it another shot.
I am going back to my Keller Jig and if I make drawers I will TD the box and add a front.


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## lj61673 (Oct 31, 2011)

One of the biggest problems with this jig or any well made jig is that the buyer assumes that he can just run his router over it and get perfect airtight joints with little to no effort. Not happening. Fitting two individual pieces of wood together with multiple dovetails in perfect alignment is very difficult. The Leigh D4r Pro is expensive because it is made under tight tolerances and is costly to produce. It is not expensive because it can overcome a myriad of user errors or deficiencies. 
There are a large number of variables that must be controlled in order to get consistent results, and the videos and instruction emphasize these repeatedly. The thickness of the boards must be the same. Not close. Exactly the same.
That means not just taken of the shelf at Home Depot and assumed to be the same. This means that the operator needs to have the tools and the skill to bring the two boards to the exact same thickness and make sure they are square. 
Next the bushing needs to be of high quality and machined accurately. As mentioned above a high quality Whiteside bushing works well. Also I stick with one router. Multiple routers means multiple bushings and different levels of router runout being added into the equation. Using one router assures the bushing tolerance doesn't change and that the bit is always centered. 
Control the variables and results improve greatly. Most buyers are looking for a magic wand, thinking that because they paid a lot of money they should be able to knock out perfect dovetails with no effort or attention to detail. Ultimately they get discouraged because they're not willing to put in the time, and the jig ends up on Craigslist or collecting dust in the corner of the shop. 
No offense intended, but this jig is not a panacea for the unskilled or lazy woodworker. It's complex and requires practice and patience.


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## Bonka (Apr 13, 2012)

I did all of the above time after time. I am not lazy nor unskilled. I put all manner of effort into it and made many mistakes and learned from them. I ended up using one router and I always use Whiteside.
I am coming to the end of my life span and do not want to waste more weeks trying to get dovetails with this jig.


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## lj61673 (Oct 31, 2011)

"I am using BORG pine boards 3/4'' until I get a snug fit…"

My post was not meant as a personal assault, just a statement of facts. You will never get great results using pine boards pulled from a rack at Home Depot. They have to be perfectly square and exact in thickness. 
There are only really two possible causes, operator error or improperly setup or manufactured jig.

I would encourage you to stick with it. Chances are you'll live long enough to figure it out, and you'll be amazed at the results that are possible.


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## Bonka (Apr 13, 2012)

I have been using poplar jointed and thickness planed to exactly .75 inches. It may well be something defective in the jig. I can get good fit except for the end one on the left and it has a large gap. 
I installed different fingers at the end in case the others were bent with the same result.
It is my intention to unload the jig as I see no projects I cannot do with my old Keller jig. I got the Leigh with the intent of using it for half blind tails. I no longer see my self doing that.
I am at peace with getting rid of it and moving on.
Thanks for the input.


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## Foghorn (Jan 30, 2020)

I've had good luck with mine. I actually really like it for dovetails and box joints. A bit of a learning curve for sure. Good luck going forward Gerald.


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

I'd say you made a wise choice. That jig can be frustrating and life's to short to be aggravated.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

It is unfortunate that there is nobody close to you who can help. It is a great job and I have made a lot of dovetails and finger joints with it. I think the instructions are good but It takes a bit to set up and use. I just followed the instructions and it worked for me.


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## JackDuren (Oct 10, 2015)

I had problems with the Leigh and Omnijig. #1 problem I had was "NOT" to spin the router base as I routed. I found later the router base wasn't perfectly centered from the factory. A new router plate from router man for the Bosch solved the problem…

May not be your issue, but everything has to be looked at on dovetail making…


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

Wow! if you pay that much for a jig, it ought to be fool proof. It sounds to me like the adjustable eccentric bushing may be the flaw? Since you are basically adjusting it to fine tune the joint, it would seem that they need a way to ensure that you cannot turn the router as you make each cut. If you turn the bushing a few degrees to make it fit, it would seem that you can easily mess that up by turning the router a few degrees as you cut. I can now see that making the adjustments in the jig, rather than the router and bushing is a better design. I will stick with my $50 Milescraft Dovetail Master. While it can only handle a couple of different fixed spacings, once I got it dialed in with a couple of test cuts, all future joints fit perfectly-definitely idiot proof for me.


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## JackDuren (Oct 10, 2015)

> Wow! if you pay that much for a jig, it ought to be fool proof. It sounds to me like the adjustable eccentric bushing may be the flaw? Since you are basically adjusting it to fine tune the joint, it would seem that they need a way to ensure that you cannot turn the router as you make each cut. If you turn the bushing a few degrees to make it fit, it would seem that you can easily mess that up by turning the router a few degrees as you cut. I can now see that making the adjustments in the jig, rather than the router and bushing is a better design. I will stick with my $50 Milescraft Dovetail Master. While it can only handle a couple of different fixed spacings, once I got it dialed in with a couple of test cuts, all future joints fit perfectly-definitely idiot proof for me.
> 
> - Lazyman


He's trying the same thing. Dialing in. Once he's set he has a nice dovetailer….


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

First things first, you need to center the bushing with the router collet. My Leigh jig makes a lot of different joints and makes them well. When I make a mistake, I am the idiot.

If you follow the directions in the guide book, it works fine.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

I was assuming that this jig uses the adjustable bushing. If so, it would seem to be a potential source of variation from cut to cut, even from pin to pin. But re-reading the OP, it sounds like he used a fixed bushing so that must not be the source of frustration here. Even so, nearly video I have seen talks about how much setup it requires which for occasional use may not be the best choice for many. I suppose that the flexibility to cut any sort of spacing brings with it that sort of complexity.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

> I was assuming that this jig uses the adjustable bushing. If so, it would seem to be a potential source of variation from cut to cut, even from pin to pin. But re-reading the OP, it sounds like he used a fixed bushing so that must not be the source of frustration here. Even so, nearly video I have seen talks about how much setup it requires which for occasional use may not be the best choice for many. I suppose that the flexibility to cut any sort of spacing brings with it that sort of complexity.
> 
> - Lazyman


Curious, you have a lot of opinions about the Leigh jig about how to use it and problems with it, which model Leigh jig do you have and what joints have you cut with it ? I have had mine for 10+ years and made many styles of dovetails and different sizes of finger joints. Yes, it takes a bit to set up properly but just follow the guide. They step you thru it with good instructions and diagrams.


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## lj61673 (Oct 31, 2011)

This is exactly what I meant earlier. He probably has never even seen one. 
The same tired responses whether it be Lie Nielsen, or Festool, or any other relatively expensive product. "Wow! For than money it should wipe my azz…..blah blah blah" last time I looked there was no woodworking tool on the market that could perform that particular task. Though if there were you would undoubtedly still have complaints here.

It's expensive because it is made to close tolerances and it's engineered to do a job that most would rather not learn. 
Producing gap free dovetails in a material with as many variations as wood and for woodworkers with such a wide variety of skill levels is no easy task. It can't be idiot proof because it still takes a human to operate it correctly and accurately. It takes time and patience to learn to use it properly. If you're not willing to put the time in then maybe it's not for you.


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## EarlS (Dec 21, 2011)

LJ61673 and RedOak - perhaps both of you ought to read Cricket's post about how to treat other LJ's. Maybe you should also take a look at Nathan's contributions to LJ before you start throwing out comments like both of you made. They don't serve a real purpose other than to be confrontational.

FWIW - I have D4R that I use quite a bit and previous to that I owned the 18" Superjig, which I also used frequently. I'd say Nate's comments regarding the adjustable bushing have merit, especially considering we all have to make our best guesses where to start when trying to* HELP* a fellow LJ.

Try for the friendly, kind approach. It tends to bring better results from the rest of us.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

EarlS…..I think it is a reasonable question to ask. A person posted a number of negative comments about a jig he has not used. I would like to know what he is basing his comments on. My comments on the jig were based on using it for a lot of years.

As for a friendly kind approach, if you think my comment was inappropriate, please feel free to contact Cricket.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

Not going to argue which side is correct. I believe it is fact that the Leigh Super jigs, and the D4R, mostly because of their high level of flexibility are also the 2 tools that do DTs with the longest, hardest learning curve.

I've several times bought both of them, can't say it was to use. I simply flipped them. because of the other fact that seems to follow them. Once someone decides to sell one off, they are usually so frustrated they go right to the 50% off for used mantra, so many of us chant. For a brand new, actually never used Leigh jig, with no obvious signs of use. DO NOT sell for 50% of what you bought it for. It's worth more than that.

Ads like this are a fairly common occurrence where I live. Likely they are everywhere else.

https://louisville.craigslist.org/tls/d/madisonville-leigh-super18-dovetail-jig/7074839651.html

With less flexibility, but still able to make iron tight DTs that outwardly give that look, the ages old Porter Cable 4212's are a really good price, and much easier to get started with.


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## lj61673 (Oct 31, 2011)

EarlS, I don't know who you are or who cricket is but I'll give it to you straight. When someone makes snide remarks about a product they never used, well that's just ignorant. Too many posters here base their comments strictly on price. You've seen a hundred Festool threads morph into a pissing contest, and the point of contention is always price. I have no affiliation with either Festool or Leigh, but I own and use both products daily, and I know the effort needed to get good results.

Like I said earlier, the Leigh jig is not for everyone. It requires a good amount of reading and practice. 
If that's not for you than move on.


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## Lazyman (Aug 8, 2014)

> I was assuming that this jig uses the adjustable bushing. If so, it would seem to be a potential source of variation from cut to cut, even from pin to pin. But re-reading the OP, it sounds like he used a fixed bushing so that must not be the source of frustration here. Even so, nearly video I have seen talks about how much setup it requires which for occasional use may not be the best choice for many. I suppose that the flexibility to cut any sort of spacing brings with it that sort of complexity.
> 
> - Lazyman
> 
> ...


I thought it was obvious that I don't have a Leigh Jig.. I was surprised to hear that you can spend that much on one and it can be so difficult to dial in. This isn't the first time I heard people complain about that. For me the reason to pay more is because it is easier to use.


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## Redoak49 (Dec 15, 2012)

The reason to use a Leigh jig is because it makes so many different dovetail and finger joints. It also allows for being able to make dovetails with different spacings. It can do MANY things. I actually think that the Leigh jig is easy If you follow the instructions.

If you want easy, buy a jig that only does one or two dovetail joints.

After rereading the thread, I would really like if the OP would provide pictures of the problem he is having. It is extremely difficult to understand and try to help without pictures.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

I've had flawless results with mine. I bought the original D4 close to 20 years ago. Recently, I did the D4 Pro upgrade to allow one-pass half blind dovetails. That was a big improvement in efficiency. There are a lot of things to keep in mind. For instance, it really doesn't matter if the bit is perfectly centered as long as you don't rotate the router as you cut. It's also important to keep the base flat on the fingers as you go.

Make test cuts, be patient and you'll get perfect dovetails.

Here is an example of the result you get when you want a more custom look:










And the one-pass with even spacing:


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## wapakfred (Jul 29, 2011)

Rich, I don't want to hi jack this thread…but I'd like to ask: did you get the fingers with your upgrade kit or modify the ones you had. If it was the latter, how hard was it drill the holes correctly? I keep kicking it around but haven't made a choice yet.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

> Rich, I don t want to hi jack this thread…but I d like to ask: did you get the fingers with your upgrade kit or modify the ones you had. If it was the latter, how hard was it drill the holes correctly? I keep kicking it around but haven t made a choice yet.
> 
> - Fred Hargis


I did my own. Their instructions were clear, so it was easy.


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## RichT (Oct 14, 2016)

Here's a quick tip that'll help you get your router bit depth set up quickly and accurately. For half-blind dovetails, both single-pass with the Pro and the old style where you flip the fingers, the only critical setting is the router bit depth. I used to follow the Leigh suggestion to keep a piece of the pin and/or tail board for successful cuts and use that to set the bit depth next time you do use the same bit. I found it only got me close.

Instead, now I take a piece of 8/4 scrap and drill it with a Forstner bit and plane it so it's just the right thickness that I can set it on a hard surface, like my table saw and plunge the bit down to where it stops. Because the surface is metal there's no issue with the bit sinking in and throwing off your setting. I've found that by doing this, I almost don't need to do a test cut. I do anyway, but it's perfect every time and saves me the fidgeting around I used to have to do making multiple test cuts.

You'll need to make one for each bit. Since the depth for the single pass isn't the same as the old style, you'll need one for each of those as well. It's tedious to make-plane a little, set the router with it, do a test cut, rinse and repeat-but the result is worth it and will save you time and headaches down the road.

Here's a photo of what I'm describing:


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