# Frugal - Need to join two 12" wide boards end to end



## Hikokushi (Mar 14, 2017)

First, TIA for the donation of your time and experience. It's appreciated. I'm looking for some advice on end joining some 1X12" boards to use stock on hand.

I have a wall I've where I've installed two store bought 24" by 83" bookshelves, a ~ 46" cabinet as a TV stand, and two more 24" shelves. About 12' total. I would like to top it all with 1X12×12-3" That means end joining two boards, one ~ 8', the other ~ 4-6" The top shelf will not be load bearing, just something to tie it together and help it to look just a little less "storish." Maybe put a quarter round on the bottom, maybe rout the top edge.

I have a biscuit joiner, I think that will be the better option over a lap joint or anything fancier for something that's going to be painted.

I've made a clamp to put around each board and pull together with 3 parallel sets, top and bottom, of all thread. Still unpacking, the table saw and radial arm saw are in parts and i think the length makes the TS ill relevant anyway. The boards are too wide for my 10" chop saw.

So, ideas for a smart way to square up the ends with my mostly trusty old Bosch hand saw? Straight edges for a guide I have as well as a Bora clamp. I have a memory of a technique of cutting the boards together and then reversing one so the bottom is now the top to square up the cuts, but can't find the right terms to check if this is in fact an option.

Again, TIA for any suggestions.

Ron


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## JCamp (Nov 22, 2016)

Not the answer to what you asked but if you live near a lumber store or have a way to haul it go but a 1×12 14ft long and cut it down. If you go to a good store they will have a way to cut it to length for you for free or a small fee. No joining ends required and it'll look better and be stronger.


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

Shipwrigth has a serie of post about boat building.
In one of them he shows how to joint two plywood panels to have a longer panel.
There are pictures in the post.
I would use a similar technique.

Cut the ends of the boards to make one low angle ramp on each one.
Put them one above the other to align the two ramps in a single ramp.
Use a plane to plane the two ramps together: to refine the surface and ensure the angle is the same on the two ramps. 
Glue the two ramps together.
Plane the visible side(s) of the glue line if needed.

If not understandable, ask Shipwrigth.


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## Chenier (Mar 15, 2019)

+1. Sylvain is describing a Scarf (or Scarph) Joint, a very strong way to join boards end-to-end. It works on boards, not just plywood panels. The internet has lots of articles and videos on how to make them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarf_joint


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## HokieKen (Apr 14, 2015)

Agree with a scarf joint. A half-lap is another good option. The problem with just butting the ends of 2 boards together and gluing them is that end-grain glue joints are extremely weak. And even though the board bears no load, simple expansion/contraction due to humidity changes could split the joint in short order.

I think the biggest issue is probably trying to join the boards with only a circular saw if I understand the OP correctly? 
Do you have a drill? Your best simply option may be to get a dowel guide jig and use dowels to make the joint.


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## JIMMIEM (Feb 5, 2016)

You mentioned routing, so I assume you have one. Another option to get mirror images on the ends of the boards you want to join is to clamp them down with a space between them slightly larger than the diameter of the router bit. Put straight edge guide(s) across the board(s) to guide the router across the boards. Straight or not the ends of the boards will be mirror images and should fit perfectly. This is a techniques used when edge joining laminate counter tops. Use the biscuit joiner. You can double up the biscuits in each location across the boards. Biscuits should be plenty strong for your application.


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## Axis39 (Jul 3, 2019)

Scarf joint is that accepted manner of joining trim to minimize the appearance of a joint.

Make your scarf joint first, then cut the ends to length.

Scarf joints with circular saws can be difficult, but I've done it a hundred times if I've done it once. I opt for my table saw, or chop saw whenever possible. The more stable the workpiece and saw, the safer, and more accurate it will be.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

Some of the many ways to go about this.

If you want eye candy


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> Scarf joint is that accepted manner of joining trim to minimize the appearance of a joint.
> 
> Make your scarf joint first, then cut the ends to length.
> 
> ...


Pretty awkward trying to cut joints on the end of a 12' board on a TS, unless you have a slider with some capacity. Most shops don't…

Either a circ saw with a straight edge cutting shoe, or a track saw would be the best of all the possible tools for most people. @12' long it's almost always a bring the tool to the work over the work to the tool kind of cut.


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## therealSteveN (Oct 29, 2016)

> Scarf joint is that accepted manner of joining trim to minimize the appearance of a joint.
> 
> Make your scarf joint first, then cut the ends to length.
> 
> ...


Pretty awkward trying to cut joints on the end of a 12 board on a TS, unless you have a slider with some capacity. Most shops don t…

Either a circ saw with a straight edge cutting shoe, or a track saw would be the best of all the possible tools for most people. Routers might be a choice for some. @12 long it s almost always a bring the tool to the work over the work to the tool kind of cut.

- therealSteveN


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

I am not sure, but if I remember well, Shipwright didn't cut the panels askew.
He piled them leaving a step as wide as a few thicknesses and directly used an electric plane to remove the steps and achieve the desired scarf.

I have found it:
https://www.lumberjocks.com/shipwright/blog/25384


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

This Guy made a jig to use a router:
http://wisdomofhands.blogspot.com/2017/10/scarf-joints.html 
http://wisdomofhands.blogspot.com/2017/10/the-idea-here.html 
It is not clear how he used it.

For a one time operation, that is inefficient.
Personally, I would just use a hand plane. It would only take a few minutes.

On shipwright post, useful info:
'In our case with 3/8" plywood the offsets are 3".'
so for 1" thickness, plan on 8" offset to achieve the same angle.


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## CommonJoe (May 8, 2021)

Is your seam going to be on top of a shelf or floating where you can see it?
If it's going over a shelf, I would just screw it down on both sides of the joint and not worry about it. Biscuit and glue if you want. If it's floating, another suggestion would be to use some draw bolts on the top, if you don't see them.


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## northwoodsman (Feb 22, 2008)

I'm going to disagree with the theory that an end to end joint is weaker than a side to side joint or and end to side joint. Watch this video below. Although an end grain joint will always break at the glue joint, it's actually twice as strong as demonstrated in this video through this particular testing. The reason that the side to side joint seems stronger is that the fibers in the wood break much easier running with the grain so the weakness of the wood itself makes the glue joint appear stronger. This has been debated on Lumberjocks many times before.
Glue Joint Strength


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## jacww (Aug 23, 2015)

Half lap joint?

May be easier to do with the tools at hand.

TonyC


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## Hikokushi (Mar 14, 2017)

First thanks!
JCamp - Local is a builders supply, +:45 min to the home center. Only thing on hand is finger jointed @ $165 + tax. May still go that route, but if you don't ask, you can never learn.

Axis39 and others on scarf joint. Had read all the articles mentioned, consideration to the cost of the lessons learning to get an acceptable with the circular saw. I have some cut-off already and had thought about trying it. Now I will.

therealSteveN - Those lovely dovetails are so far above my current skill set and it's going to be painted and will be flat on top of the top shelf 8' up. Honestly have been focusing on metal lately, too many interests, never enough time.

Jimmien & Sylvain - Probably the best for my |Good|Quick|Cheap| balance and skill set.

Any hints for managing the router when the, for lack of a better term, the bottom piece appears to be a climb cut? Or am I missing something? Or worrying too much?

Sylvan, found the details needed: 
"The jig is clamped to the plywood sheets, and supports the router at *just the right angle* to trim the edges of two pieces at a time to a one to eight inch slope. After it is assembled I'll cut a channel in the sides so it can follow a guide screwed to the plywood and be aligned across the full width of a plywood sheet. The jig is a refinement and adaptation of one I saw on youtube.com" I'll see if I can find the YouTube.

Again, thank you everyone for your time. I obviously joined a long time ago, but in general have found the answers I need already posted and honestly haven't had anything worthwhile to contribute.
Ron


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## JIMMIEM (Feb 5, 2016)

When I recommended a router, the cut would be similar to making a Dado or Groove cut. You could do it with the boards end butted together and then routing with the butt joint in the middle of the Dado. I have the boards separated so that the router will just take off a small amount of wood from each board instead of an entire Dado's worth. Even if you were to zigzag the router across the ends of the 2 boards they would be mirror images. The boards are not stacked but rather laying flat.
Just hold the router firmly and clamp on edge guide(s).
If you think about it, a Dado or Groove operation is climb cutting one side of the Dado/Groove.
The other routing option would be to lay one board on top of the other with the sides and ends aligned, clamp a straight edge at right angle to the side(s) and use a flush trim or patterning bit to cut the end of both boards at the same time.


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## Hikokushi (Mar 14, 2017)

I wanted to post a picture of a clamp I made to pull the butt joint together in lieu of long bar clamps, but maybe as a noob I can't?

Anyway, it's 4 pieces of 2X4X~18" long. Each piece has two holes through the 4" face, and 3 through the 2" face. The pieces are placed long across the width below and above each board, ~6" back from the edge to be joined and tightened together with all thread through the 4" face. Then the pairs of 2x are connected together with six pieces of all thread and by tightening pull the butt joint together.

My plan is to remove the top three all thread to leave two parallel pieces of 2X as a router guide for a small Makita trim router. I think the trim router power will be ok by trimming ~1/32" off each face. There is ~ 3/8" clearance below the bottom board face for the router bit.

Concerns?

Ron


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## Hikokushi (Mar 14, 2017)

JimmieM, my apologies. You were very clear and I wasn't. Option 1 is exactly what I'm planning to try. Good point on the dado. Duh. We were both posting at the same time.

Ron


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## JIMMIEM (Feb 5, 2016)

> JimmieM, my apologies. You were very clear and I wasn t. Option 1 is exactly what I m planning to try. Good point on the dado. Duh. We were both posting at the same time.
> 
> Ron
> 
> - Hikokushi


Please don't apologize…...being clear is not my strong suit…..I have to work at it.
I was liking option 2 (one board on top of the other) with an edge guide/flush trim bit.
If you have the boards butted end to end with the intention of doing a Dado type cut I'm not sure how happy a trim router will be making the cut unless you take many small passes.
You also said you had a Bosch hand saw. Is this a circular saw? If so, you could probably do this with an edge guide and sharp blade.


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## Loren (May 30, 2008)

If you dowel the dowels will pretty much just need to be pounded together from one end. You can get away with a substandard clamping or no clamping at all.


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

for butt joint there is the Japanese suriawase technique.
(doing it with an electric router is a variant).

Place the two boards as you would butt joint them but leave a space about the saw blade thickness.
Saw between the two boards ends.
Repeat with a finer saw if necessary.

The two boards will be mating even if the saw kerf is not straight/plumb/square. 
Then you still have to connect them (biscuit, dowel, pocket holes, back board, bed bolt/countertop bolt, ...)

pictures (jointing in this case):
Look at pictures 2 and 3 here:
http://blog.douglasbrooksboatbuilding.com/2019/04/2019-bates-college-short-term.html
This ensure a perfect mating, even if the boards edges are not perfectly straight.
machinery variant:
http://blog.douglasbrooksboatbuilding.com/2015/05/suriawase-revelation.html


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## bruc101 (Sep 13, 2008)

I had a friend do that recently with a lock miter joint. Can't tear the board apart.


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## Hikokushi (Mar 14, 2017)

> Place the two boards as you would butt joint them but leave a space about the saw blade thickness.
> Saw between the two boards ends.
> Repeat with a finer saw if necessary.
> 
> ...


Oh I like this, and a great excuse, as if I need one, for pulling out my Ryoba! As if I really need one. And I know exactly where it is! Put properly away in the Anke joiners bench I got really lucky last month at the Habitat for Humanity ReSale store. $250 USD, got offered twice that as I was loading it. This is exactly what I was trying to figure out. How to match them in my poor skill set.

Thanks!

Ron


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## Hikokushi (Mar 14, 2017)

> . . .
> I was liking option 2 (one board on top of the other) with an edge guide/flush trim bit.
> If you have the boards butted end to end with the intention of doing a Dado type cut I m not sure how happy a trim router will be making the cut unless you take many small passes.
> - JIMMIEM


I was thinking one pass but with the smallest cut I could set up. Now I'm thinking the Ryoba or circular saw is smarter. 
Certainly the rehearsal is easier!

Ron


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## CommonJoe (May 8, 2021)

Painted, and going over IKEA type cabinetry? Way overthinking this.
But however you do it will be a learning experience for you, so knock yourself out.

Jig saw like the picture, you get the most gluing surface for strength.


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## Hikokushi (Mar 14, 2017)

> Painted, and going over IKEA type cabinetry? Way overthinking this.
> 
> - CommonJoe


Me??? Over think things?

It's also a legacy of growing up in a place that always looked like crap and wanting different. 
Thanks for another option. No jig saw at this time, coping saw is "someplace." 
Spent last night trying to "Move the deck chairs on the Titanic." to make a place among the unpacked boxes to get these things to where I can butt them and saw. 
Ron


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## PCDub (Sep 24, 2017)

> I wanted to post a picture of a clamp I made to pull the butt joint together in lieu of long bar clamps, but maybe as a noob I can t?
> ......
> Ron
> 
> - Hikokushi


You can post pictures! Click the button at the top of the reply box that says "img" and then you can upload your picture.


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## Hikokushi (Mar 14, 2017)

> You can post pictures! Click the button at the top of the reply box that says "img" and then you can upload your picture.
> 
> - PCDub


Thanks. After using the "quote" for CommonJoe I saw that the URL for his image was what I had seen when I tried to post and thought it had errored. Tried again and I got a notification stating "No image selected." I tried again and same result. So gave up.

And now success with the 4th attempt now that I know what I'm supposed to see! Earlier attempts probably timed out.

So behold the over kill butt joint clamp. Not original by any means. I think maybe I had seen one posted here. Where I had used it before isn't conducive to clamping for a cross cut, so am having to figure that out in the space available.


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## Sylvain (Jul 23, 2011)

> - CommonJoe


There are router bits to do that (although on the thickness of the board).
https://www.amazon.com/FivePears-Pieces-Tongue-Groove-Router/dp/B07KTWLTX4?th=1


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## JIMMIEM (Feb 5, 2016)

> You can post pictures! Click the button at the top of the reply box that says "img" and then you can upload your picture.
> 
> - PCDub
> 
> ...


Looking good.
I hope that you will make a cut using each technique that was suggested and post pictures of the results.


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## Hikokushi (Mar 14, 2017)

> Looking good.
> I hope that you will make a cut using each technique that was suggested and post pictures of the results.
> 
> - JIMMIEM


 Working on it, shop time didn't go as planned.
Hand saw got the gap close enough a new/sharp 140 tooth circular saw provided a great match. I'm matching the width then will do the end match again with a router as a comparison.


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## Hikokushi (Mar 14, 2017)

Final report. 
Blinding flash of the obvious, put on a backer board before any attempt to move it after joining.
Both my boards had a slight, non matching of course, bow. I thought I could overcome this with clamping to pull the boards flat and using a biscuit joiner. Marginal success. I tried to use the clamp above. In retrospect I should have removed the six parallel pieces of all thread. Then placed the clamps ~ 2"back from either edge. This would have clamped the boards flat. Then after the glue-up, simply used 4 clamps out on the edges to pull them together. Next time. With the clamp above, the boards have to be over a wide gap, or turned on edge. On edge both boards must then be supported their entire length because the clamp holds the boards ~2" above whatever you are using. Not quick to set up. I used ratchet straps as clamps on the ends of the boards. Very difficult to keep the boards flat. Hence my clamping recommendation so only access to the sides are needed and very close to the joint.

Time wise, single straight edge and circular saw is my recommendation. Router took longer to set up than the circular saw method for no appreciable gain.

1) Circular saw.
a) Raise both boards off your cutting area.
b) Push the ends together and clamp a straight edge to the back side of the boards. 
c) Clamp them both down to the cutting area.
d) Remove the straight edge and make your cut.

If necessary to close gap just repeat.

2) Router. To use a router, the boards must be gapped just under the bit size. 
a) Follow circular saw steps a-c above.
b) I used two 11/32" drill bits in a ~4" wide piece of cardboard to gap the boards for a 3/8" bit.

I have not developed the skill set to successfully use a hand saw and get the gap down to where a single cut would face both boards. I think a thick blade push saw would be required, a Japanese pull saw is too thin.

Ron


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## tvrgeek (Nov 19, 2013)

Traditionally, a low angle scarf. Modern glues work wonders.


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## rwe2156 (May 7, 2014)

Scarf joint? Are you guys kidding? 

How about a finger joint? Quick and ease + strong. A Yonico bit off Amazon is good and not too pricey. You're covering the edge with moulding, right?

In the end biscuits and a butt joint will work fine. Flip the board like you said, so any error off 90 is cancelled by complimentary angles. Or If the joint is visible, you may still need to tweak it with a hand plane or belt sander.

Rather than the all thread, you can just glue on some blocks and use F clamps to draw the joint together. After its dry, pop them off and sand away the residue.


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