# Staining Birch Plywood?



## tool_junkie

Hello,

I am ready to start applying stain to a TV cabinet I recently built using Birch Plywood from Menards. I have a few questions and will highly appreciate any help I can get, so here we go:

1- I am thinking of using Gel Stain (darker color), so do I need to use a Pre-Stain conditioner?

2- If I don't use the pre-stain conditioner, is there going to be a noticeable amount of blotchiness and streaking with Gel stain?

3- I have heard and read good reviews for General Finishes brand stain, but I can't find it locally. Are Minwax and Varathane brand gel stains comparable to General Finishes?

Thanks for all your help!


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## ajosephg

Shouldn't have any problems with blotchiness or streaking on birch plywood.

I've never used gel stains, so can't help you with that.


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## CharlieM1958

I agree with Joe that blotching should not be an issue.

I've never used General Finishes stain, so I can't help you with a comparison.


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## Sawkerf

Minwax is usually pretty good. IIRC, the instructions on the can will say whether a conditioner is needed. As always, experiment on some scrap before you commit yourself.


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## dpop24

Please excuse the silly newbie question, but if regular birch hardwood blotches and needs conditioner, how come birch plywood doesn't have the same propensity for blotchiness. I'm glad this came up, I would have assumed the same properties and wasted time with conditioning.


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## Sawkerf

Not a silly question at all, dpop. IME, birch can and does blotch with some stains. The OP, however, plans to use a gel-stain.


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## JonathanG

If you are going to use a gel stain, it shouldn't be as big of a deal. You may still have some sort of issue though. I think a larger issue that has not yet been mentioned, and a question I have: Are you only using birch plywood? I'm assuming there is some sort of hardwood trim somewhere here? If so, are you going to stain it the same color, or a different color?

If you want the finish to be the same, and are using both plywood and hardwood together, if it were me, I think I'd use some sort of blotch control/pre-conditioner, just to keep the color the same across both wood types. From my experience, it's not as big of a deal when using gel stain, but others have said, experiment on some scrap first.

I'll be applying a yet-to-be-decided-upon finish to some bookcases sometime later this year that will be made out of both plywood and hardwood. I'll be using Charles Neil Blotch Control so that the colors match as closely as possible. The main advantage I see to using a pre-conditioner, besides helping to eliminate blotching issues, is to provide an even base so that the color is nice and uniform.


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## Cosmicsniper

Birch plywood, IME, blotches quite a bit…even if you apply a gel stain, there could be some issues, IME. I'd use the conditioner.


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## Cosmicsniper

BTW, I really don't like the look of birch plywood finished with any type of stain. I'd use a dye, preferrably used to tint a de-waxed shellac.

Use a test board with whatever method you choose.


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## ralmand

I stained some Birch plywood awhile back. I used the pre-conditioner and had no problem. I used the General Brand also


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## JamesClapperton

Cosmicsniper is right. I use birch ply for all of my guitar cabinets. It's very prone to blotchyness. Use a wash coat of dewaxed shellac 1:1 with alcohol or a pre stain conditioner. The GF gel stain is WAY less likely to give you problems than almost any other product. Take your time and only do one side before wiping it off. Don't wrap over the corners onto the other sides or I promise you'll get some nasty lap marks, especially if you're using a dark color like the java. Take your time, don't slop it on and it will be a breeze. The GF gel is my go to stain for a natural color palette. It's great stuff.


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## Earlextech

I use a 2lb cut of dewaxed shellac. Birch anything will and can be blotchy, don't take any chances. It's much harder to fix after the fact. I always seal coat before stain. The idea of putting some stain into the shellac works great.


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## Carbide

Be cautious about using plywood from Menards. I built 2 cabinets with Menards oak plywood and the oak laminate was so thin that the glue used to apply the laminate had bled through the grain of the wood and would not take stain at all. The cabinets were ruined….... Be nice to know where to buy some good USA made plywood.


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## JonathanG

Carbide, That is unfortunate. I think one of the points to using a seal coat is to give you an even base to start with. Maybe you couldn't tell the glue was there until you began applying the finish? Wiping the surface down with mineral spirits, etc. will help reveal any glue spots.

If you apply a seal coat first, your finish over the top of it will then be consistent. For instance, Sam's suggestion above of using the dewaxed shellac will lay down and adhere over the plywood evenly, including any glue bleed through, then you can apply your finish over the top of the shellac and you should get nice even results, as long as your application of the finish istself is consistent.


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## docnewt

Woodcraft and Rocker carry GF products and they really are some of the best on the market. Blotching is best controlled using Charles Neils blotch control. This is truly a sulerior product and can be previewed at hi site. google him


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## SixPants

I'm a relative novice so my comments should be taken as such:

I built a 6' x 2' locker with birch plywood (1/2") from Home Depot. I used water-based Minwax with conditioner.

I sanded to 220, conditioned, very lightly sanded, then stained.

I've read that birch loves to swallow stain. Water-based stains already absorb fast so it's been a pretty difficult experience. Even with the conditioner I'll get utterly inexplicable blotches. Or one zone will just suck all the stain in. Looks like crap; however, I know that when it gets in the dining room and covered with coats and bags no one will notice.

If I had to do it over, I would consider (and have since read) that 2 coats of conditioner are advised. Oil-based isn't an option since I'm working in the basement and my kids need to breath (apparently).

I tried brushing and rubbing. Brushing works better - the more stain you can lay on the surface the more you can control how fast it dries up. Especially on those long boards.

I hope this helps someone. It's worth noting that I tested the same stain on a piece of non-conditioned, non-sanded oak and it applied beautifully and evenly. Even the crummy piece of poplar I tried it on took the stain well. So I think there's a combination of user error, challenges of water-based, and mid-grade level of plywood conspiring against me here.


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## elliotjoel

I recently built a bookcase with birch veneer plywood, sanded with 220 grit, and applied gel stain. The result isn't exactly blotchy, but it has a noticeable pattern of cross-grain striations. Any idea what I did wrong?

Thanks.

- Elliot


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## Andybb

tool junkie
1 & 2. Gather up the scrap from the build and try *all* of your finish options (i.e. with or without conditioner, gel, rub, brush, etc.) on them *first* and label them as you go then pick the one you like. No way to predict blotchiness as it really comes down to the particular piece of wood you have so is almost impossible to see on scrap. Looking at *elliot's* pic above, a scrap piece would look fine but the larger panel shows it. (Although I'm not sure if that wouldn't show up even with conditioner.) To be safe, why not use a conditioner and just don't pick a finish that says not to? *Maybe somebody can recommend the best options/brand of conditioner/sealer based on their experience.*

3. Quick delivery via Amazon but people swear by Minxax and Varathane too. Are you also deciding on oil or water borne? I think Varathane is only available in wb. More scrap pieces. But if you want to save time and fumes, nothing wrong with Varathane wb. Plenty of references in the forums. Lots of luthiers use it too.


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