# Saw Talk



## Brit

*And then there were two.*

I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:


Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.

So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.

*Disclaimer:* Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.

So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore *Big Joe*, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.










It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.










As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.

There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.










This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.










Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.










Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.










*CAUTION*: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.

I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.

So here is the saw after restoration.










There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.

I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.



















So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.










When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as *The Two Ronnies*. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.


----------



## albachippie

Brit said:


> *And then there were two.*
> 
> I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:
> 
> 
> Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
> Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
> Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
> Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.
> 
> So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.
> 
> *Disclaimer:* Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.
> 
> So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore *Big Joe*, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.
> 
> There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CAUTION*: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.
> 
> I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.
> 
> So here is the saw after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.
> 
> I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as *The Two Ronnies*. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.


I love reading your blogs Brit. Thanks for your time.

Also thanks for posting the video. Definitely one of my favourite sketches ever!

Cheers,

Garry


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *And then there were two.*
> 
> I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:
> 
> 
> Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
> Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
> Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
> Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.
> 
> So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.
> 
> *Disclaimer:* Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.
> 
> So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore *Big Joe*, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.
> 
> There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CAUTION*: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.
> 
> I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.
> 
> So here is the saw after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.
> 
> I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as *The Two Ronnies*. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.


I liked the saw, loved the video
no wait, loved the saw liked the video
no wait, where was I again!

As usual Andy, great information.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *And then there were two.*
> 
> I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:
> 
> 
> Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
> Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
> Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
> Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.
> 
> So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.
> 
> *Disclaimer:* Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.
> 
> So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore *Big Joe*, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.
> 
> There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CAUTION*: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.
> 
> I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.
> 
> So here is the saw after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.
> 
> I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as *The Two Ronnies*. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.


*albachippie* - Thanks for the encouragement. I find that writing the blogs helps to consolidate what I learn about the tools that I restore and it is always good to get the perspective of others.

Glad you liked the video. A classic for sure.

*Don* - Thanks. Hope your latest project is going well apart from the travelling. I'm 'on the bench' at the moment which is really nice.


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *And then there were two.*
> 
> I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:
> 
> 
> Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
> Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
> Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
> Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.
> 
> So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.
> 
> *Disclaimer:* Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.
> 
> So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore *Big Joe*, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.
> 
> There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CAUTION*: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.
> 
> I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.
> 
> So here is the saw after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.
> 
> I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as *The Two Ronnies*. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.


They look great Andy. I havent read the restoration blog, so forgive me, but do you sharpen them yourself?


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *And then there were two.*
> 
> I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:
> 
> 
> Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
> Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
> Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
> Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.
> 
> So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.
> 
> *Disclaimer:* Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.
> 
> So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore *Big Joe*, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.
> 
> There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CAUTION*: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.
> 
> I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.
> 
> So here is the saw after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.
> 
> I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as *The Two Ronnies*. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.


Hi *Shane*,

After I've restored all the saws in the pile I will be sharpening them all to task. I want to do them all at the same time, so I develop some muscle memory. I'm new to sharpening and recently got my first taste of it at a free class given by Paul Sellers. I'll be covering it all in the blog in detail. I'll go over what I intend to use the saw for, the rake, fleam and slope angle I chose for each saw and the amount of set. This is something that I have found lacking on the web. I don't know of anyone who has written a detailed blog or recorded a video, where they pick up a particular saw and say for example: "Ok so you want to dedicate this saw for cross-cutting softwood. Is speed of cut important to you or the surface finish left by the saw? In that case you want X rake angle, Y fleam and Z slope with so many thousandths of an inch set."

But as I hope to show as this blog progresses, it isn't only the rake, fleam, slope and set that make a saw cut well. I will be discussing aspects of saw design that influence a saw's ability to perform certain tasks. I'm not saying listen to me because I know it all, but I am willing to put myself out there and have a go at making sense of it all. I might just make a total arse of myself, but time will tell I guess


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *And then there were two.*
> 
> I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:
> 
> 
> Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
> Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
> Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
> Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.
> 
> So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.
> 
> *Disclaimer:* Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.
> 
> So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore *Big Joe*, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.
> 
> There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CAUTION*: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.
> 
> I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.
> 
> So here is the saw after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.
> 
> I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as *The Two Ronnies*. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.


Sounds complex Andy, looking forward to see that part. Thanks for the effort and info.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *And then there were two.*
> 
> I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:
> 
> 
> Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
> Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
> Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
> Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.
> 
> So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.
> 
> *Disclaimer:* Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.
> 
> So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore *Big Joe*, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.
> 
> There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CAUTION*: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.
> 
> I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.
> 
> So here is the saw after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.
> 
> I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as *The Two Ronnies*. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.


Andy, enjoy the bench time.


----------



## BrandonW

Brit said:


> *And then there were two.*
> 
> I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:
> 
> 
> Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
> Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
> Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
> Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.
> 
> So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.
> 
> *Disclaimer:* Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.
> 
> So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore *Big Joe*, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.
> 
> There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CAUTION*: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.
> 
> I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.
> 
> So here is the saw after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.
> 
> I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as *The Two Ronnies*. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.


Great work, as always, Andy. Looking forward to seeing more of these posts!


----------



## RGtools

Brit said:


> *And then there were two.*
> 
> I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:
> 
> 
> Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
> Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
> Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
> Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.
> 
> So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.
> 
> *Disclaimer:* Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.
> 
> So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore *Big Joe*, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.
> 
> There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CAUTION*: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.
> 
> I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.
> 
> So here is the saw after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.
> 
> I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as *The Two Ronnies*. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.


Another restoration blog by Andy. I will be keeping track.

Always nice to see how you work.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *And then there were two.*
> 
> I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:
> 
> 
> Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
> Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
> Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
> Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.
> 
> So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.
> 
> *Disclaimer:* Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.
> 
> So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore *Big Joe*, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.
> 
> There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CAUTION*: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.
> 
> I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.
> 
> So here is the saw after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.
> 
> I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as *The Two Ronnies*. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.


Hi Andy,
I will be looking forward to follow this one, perhaps I might go along as I also have a bunch of saws that needs love and care.
I love the sketch!
Hope you are fine, here life is as sweet as honey.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *And then there were two.*
> 
> I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:
> 
> 
> Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
> Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
> Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
> Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.
> 
> So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.
> 
> *Disclaimer:* Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.
> 
> So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore *Big Joe*, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.
> 
> There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CAUTION*: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.
> 
> I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.
> 
> So here is the saw after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.
> 
> I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as *The Two Ronnies*. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.


*Shane* - I don't think it is really complex, it's just that we've lost the knowledge about which saw to choose in a given situation and why.

*Don* - You know I will 

*Brandon & Ryan* - Thanks guys.

*Mads* - I'm great thanks. Looks like I won't be back in Denmark any time soon. The client ran out of money. Although I won't miss the travelling, I would have liked one more visit to the vintage architect's tool emporium.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *And then there were two.*
> 
> I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:
> 
> 
> Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
> Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
> Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
> Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.
> 
> So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.
> 
> *Disclaimer:* Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.
> 
> So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore *Big Joe*, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.
> 
> There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CAUTION*: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.
> 
> I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.
> 
> So here is the saw after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.
> 
> I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as *The Two Ronnies*. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.


Hmmmmm, I will send your little pack, since I have a special little thing for you.
You know my door is always open for you.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *And then there were two.*
> 
> I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:
> 
> 
> Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
> Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
> Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
> Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.
> 
> So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.
> 
> *Disclaimer:* Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.
> 
> So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore *Big Joe*, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.
> 
> There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CAUTION*: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.
> 
> I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.
> 
> So here is the saw after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.
> 
> I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as *The Two Ronnies*. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.


*Mads* - "*A special little thing*". That sounds interesting. No idea what it could be, but I'm all excited now. I hope I do get back to Denmark at some point in the future and if I do, I'll certainly let you know. The best thing about getting assigned to a project in Denmark was having the chance to meet you.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *And then there were two.*
> 
> I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:
> 
> 
> Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
> Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
> Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
> Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.
> 
> So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.
> 
> *Disclaimer:* Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.
> 
> So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore *Big Joe*, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.
> 
> There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CAUTION*: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.
> 
> I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.
> 
> So here is the saw after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.
> 
> I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as *The Two Ronnies*. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.


Thank you Andy, you will be missed here, by both my daughter and I.
The best and most warm thougts to you and the family,
Mads


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *And then there were two.*
> 
> I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:
> 
> 
> Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
> Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
> Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
> Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.
> 
> So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.
> 
> *Disclaimer:* Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.
> 
> So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore *Big Joe*, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.
> 
> There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CAUTION*: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.
> 
> I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.
> 
> So here is the saw after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.
> 
> I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as *The Two Ronnies*. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.


Thanks Andy, great tips. So many of us spend countless hours online researching and filtering through what works and what doesn't. It's great when we can come on LJ and consolidate our knowledge to help out our fellow Lumber Jocks.


----------



## DocBailey

Brit said:


> *And then there were two.*
> 
> I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:
> 
> 
> Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
> Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
> Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
> Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.
> 
> So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.
> 
> *Disclaimer:* Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.
> 
> So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore *Big Joe*, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.
> 
> There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CAUTION*: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.
> 
> I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.
> 
> So here is the saw after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.
> 
> I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as *The Two Ronnies*. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.


OK - I gave it my best shot. I'm of the "clean-it-up-but-don't-overdo-it" school of tool restoration. No polyurethaned handles or garishly bright fasteners for me. Moreover, the tool must be viewed as a whole. If you can only get the blade as clean as I got this one, then why have fasteners polished to the nth degree?
At any rate, I took this down as far as I dared, without disturbing the etch. And in the case of this saw there's a lot of etch!
This turns out to be a D115 - the top of the Disston line-up for many years. Extra Refined London Spring steel blade; Braziilian rosewood handle, and nickel-plated brass fasteners. You can see from the medallion that it is from the 1896-1917 period.
It was called the "Victory" saw after being branded with a special etch around the time of the first World War. It's weak on this one, and not very deep to begin with, but it's an eagle holding the Liberty bell, surround by flags, with the word "Victory" in an arch over him, and the phrase "Proclaim Liberty throughout the World" under him.
This one still has its factory breasted toothline, with graduated teeth at the tip and is still sharp!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *And then there were two.*
> 
> I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:
> 
> 
> Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
> Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
> Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
> Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.
> 
> So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.
> 
> *Disclaimer:* Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.
> 
> So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore *Big Joe*, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.
> 
> There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CAUTION*: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.
> 
> I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.
> 
> So here is the saw after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.
> 
> I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as *The Two Ronnies*. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.


I think your approach was spot on Doc. There are some old saws that you just shouldn't mess with. I took your approach with my old S&J handsaw from the 1830s. I just got rid of the rust and puts some wax on the beautiful tote.

Saws don't come any better than the D115. Are you going to sharpen it youself or send it out for sharpening? That is assuming you haven't already sharpened it of course.


----------



## DocBailey

Brit said:


> *And then there were two.*
> 
> I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:
> 
> 
> Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
> Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
> Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
> Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.
> 
> So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.
> 
> *Disclaimer:* Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.
> 
> So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore *Big Joe*, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.
> 
> There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CAUTION*: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.
> 
> I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.
> 
> So here is the saw after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.
> 
> I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as *The Two Ronnies*. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.


Hi Andy -

I didn't mean for this monstrous post of mine to end up on your Saw Talk thread (in fact I've asked the mods to move it to the "Show The Restoration Before and after" thread, where I posted the "before" shots yesterday).
I wiill eventually sharpen it, but only after a bit more practice on some of the dozens of others I've been hoarding. At any rate, it will only need a tune-up (I'd call it a solid 8 on a 1-10 scale of sharpness). Funny thing about this saw-it has virtually no set (before I got the considerable rust off, I thought it might be an Acme (Disston 120) - a saw made to run without any set).

btw- love your work and documented restorations.

Doc


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *And then there were two.*
> 
> I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:
> 
> 
> Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
> Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
> Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
> Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.
> 
> So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.
> 
> *Disclaimer:* Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.
> 
> So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore *Big Joe*, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.
> 
> There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CAUTION*: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.
> 
> I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.
> 
> So here is the saw after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.
> 
> I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as *The Two Ronnies*. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.


No problem Doc, she's a beauty.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *And then there were two.*
> 
> I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:
> 
> 
> Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
> Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
> Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
> Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.
> 
> So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.
> 
> *Disclaimer:* Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.
> 
> So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore *Big Joe*, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.
> 
> There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CAUTION*: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.
> 
> I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.
> 
> So here is the saw after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.
> 
> I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as *The Two Ronnies*. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.


She is a beauty Doc. I'm a bit surprised they put rosewood but not brass.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Brit said:


> *And then there were two.*
> 
> I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:
> 
> 
> Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
> Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
> Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
> Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.
> 
> So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.
> 
> *Disclaimer:* Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.
> 
> So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore *Big Joe*, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.
> 
> There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CAUTION*: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.
> 
> I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.
> 
> So here is the saw after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.
> 
> I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as *The Two Ronnies*. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.


Well done Doc. I have the same saw to restore Doc.  It was my wife's great grandfather's saw. I too am worried about the etch and don't want to damage it so i'll just give it a facelift like you.

Maybe Nickel plated brass was the newest upscale thing at that time Don.


----------



## Brit

*Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*

After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.

When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".










The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.










This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?










So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.










My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.

Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.










I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.










For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.

So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.










See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.










Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.



















The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."

When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.

Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.










Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.










It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.










At this point I figured I had three options.


Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
Make a new handle
Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.

I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.










Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.










Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.










Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.

After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.

And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.

Here's the saw before I started…










…and here it is now.





































I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!

Until next time.


----------



## BrandonW

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


LOL, loved that last line, Andy.

That saw really made a dramatic transformation! You have a precious tool that I'm sure will serve you for many more years to come. When are you going to start fixing up saws for other people-I know you can make good money doing it since you're so good. My saw clean ups don't turn out nearly as well.


----------



## StumpyNubs

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


WOW… You've inspired me to restore a couple of antique Disston backsaws I have!

Thanks for posting!

-Jim; aka "Stumpy Nubs" 
(The greatest woodworking show since the invention of wood is now online!)


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


Looks great Andy. The bleach did a great job. That saw looks too pretty to use now…better find a place on the wall for it. Really well done. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


Thanks for the encouragement guys. There is still a big pile of saws to restore, so I hope I can keep it up and get it all done by the Spring.

*Brandon* - Doing it for other people has crossed my mind, but I'll wait to see how my sharpening skills develop. If they come out well, I might do it for other people too.


----------



## Arminius

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


As a point of information, depending on where you got the saw, there is a very good chance it was made in Toronto. Many of the brassbacks were, and may or may not have the Disston Canada etching. They were made in Canada to get around a Commonwealth tariff wall. Much like Stanley planes, the 'type study' logic breaks down somewhat in branch plant manufacture, and you would often see non-standard or outdated options. So the fact that a nominal 'No.7' handle or an 1885 pattern would be available on a No. 5 might not have been listed in the US catalogue, but yet be standard for the Commonwealth version. I would bet that is the case for the one you found listed in Australia.

Very nice work.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


*Arminius* - That's a very good point. I did read that most of the brass backs were exported to the UK amongst other places and were not commonly found in the US. However, I wasn't aware that they originated from Canada. I bought it off ebay.co.uk so I have no idea as to where it has been before then. As you say, the double-nib might have been for the export market, which is why I haven't seen any on US sites. Thanks for the info.


----------



## RGtools

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


Andy. Your blogs should come with napkins, there is drool all over my desk.

The work really shows on the last photographs. Thanks for sharing. One day I think I need to go the extra mile and make a saw truly shiny.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


Thanks *Ryan* - Regarding '*truly shiny*'. As you know I like to be able to see the reflection of my work in my backsaws, but this time I stopped at P600. Still enough to see a reflection, but now that I've done a few restorations, I'm starting to form the opinion that a saw needs to look good as a whole. In this case, since I opted to polish the brass, I purposely toned down the shine on the saw plate otherwise it would have been too much. The handle is waxed to a soft sheen and feels smooth and silky. If I'd gone for a brushed brass look on the back, I might have taken the shine on the plate up to P800 or P1000. It's all a learning experience


----------



## StumpyNubs

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


*Hey Brit…* Do you have a video camera? How about doing a short video (2-3 minutes) of yourself talking about your saw restoration techniques and submitting it to be part of a future episode of Blue Collar Woodworking?

PM me…

-Jim; aka "Stumpy Nubs" 
(The greatest woodworking show since the invention of wood is now online!)


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


I think I like this one the best. Its amazing how well these come out for you.


----------



## planepassion

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


What a beauty Andy. I love reading about your restoration adventures. I'm finding that rehabbing/restoring is like rock climbing. At some point, there's always a "crux" to the climb/restore. That one part of the process where you have to figure out the right "move" to advance.

For this tool your tenacity plus the Liberon Wood Bleach saved the day. I'm glad you stuck with it. The original handle is a looker and the history of it is very rich. You're going to be proud to reach for this saw in you project work.

Cheers,
Brad


----------



## NateX

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


Wow, I saw some rather rough old saws at our local antique flea market and decided that I would be way out of my depth restoring them, but now, I want one!

That looks amazing! Nicely done, another piece of American history saved!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


*Don* - Yeah it is my favourite so far too in terms of the quality of the restoration. The handle isn't as comfortable as the Tyzacks which is due to two things. Firstly, the handle is about 1/16" thinner stock and secondly, the inside of the grip is more rounded which pinches the flesh on my ring finger a bit. However, I'm being pedantic. It is still nice, I'm just trying to understand what makes a handle comfortable because one day I'm sure to make one.

*Brad* - Thanks buddy. As an ex-climber myself, I can tell you that your climbing analogy is very apt. Like the Chaffinch at my window who keeps trying to see off his own reflection, sometimes you've just got to exhibit a dogged determination to succeed (suck seed get it? Oh never mind). Two days and one blunt beak later, he's still going strong  He keeps on knocking, but he can't come in.
























I bet he doesn't clean up the crap he's left on my window ledge though. Grrrrrrrr!!!

Looking forward to your next brace blog. Hope it's going Ok.

*NateX* - Go for it!


----------



## RGtools

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


Stopping at 600 is a good way to go from a long term perspective…less likely to show fingerprints that way.

Any time I try to male a plane body shiny that is where I stop…after that pits and prints start to look quite conspicuous.


----------



## Arminius

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


Andy,

To be clear, not all brass backs were made in Toronto, the Philadelphia plant certainly made them as well. But as you note, the brass backs were more popular in the export markets, and if it was exported to a Commonwealth market, it was probably made in Toronto in the WWI era your saw appears to be from - Disston started manufacturing in Sydney in the mid-20's, for the same purpose.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


Thanks Arminius. That is exactly the type of information I was hoping people would contribute to this blog. I hope you'll stick around for the remainder of the series.


----------



## Dcase

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


Very nice work… I have had a couple saw handles with that same black stain like color on that part of the handle. I think its probably stained due to the dirt and oils that came off of the fingers of the past users. Just my guess though. I remember it being tough to sand out.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


*Dan* - Thanks. It was seeing your Antique Disston Saw Restore blog that inspired me to have a go at it myself. That was a few saws ago now and like you said, it really isn't difficult. You just need a few hours and some elbow grease.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


Nice restore Andy. I like blo about as much as my mother in law but it turned out nice. I love the apple sap wood color but i like the heart wood even more. I hope my totes turn out as nice as yours did. I have a few saws and am always looking for more you know. I wonder if the steel of today is any good for saws I know disston made great steel is that a lost art ?


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


Andy what are you using to buff the brass?


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


For the spine I just hand sand up through the grits to P2500 and for the medallion etc, I just use Brasso and elbow grease.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


I think it is funny that you collect american tools and I collect English tools I gut got a nice saw last night it is a bit rough but with some heard work it will be a real gem


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


traitors…..


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


I'm not a collector. I only buy tools I intend to use and if I don't need them anymore, I sell them.

Don on the other hand is definitely a collector.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


I think it is still funny and I do collect and use. I am a collector of tools but they are only collected to be used. We are not that different, I just buy a lot of tools. Do you like my little English saw? I hope the pitting is as shallow as the guy says it is.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


I think the pitting looks pretty deep myself. You might need to replace the plate on that one.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


Is it a collector of tools I plan to use, or user of collected tools. I'm not sure.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


yea, I'm not sure even Andy could sand those dimples out. I like the brass back though.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


I am going to try to0 save it first. I hope the plate doesn't get to thin sanding all the pits out. I have a high def photo and they don't look as bad on that photo, but it is noticeable but i love the way the saw looks and the price was good so I am OK if I have to buy a plate and restore it.


----------



## anneb3

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


Just wandered through this blog and the pictures and there was the answer to my latest problem.
Just had my oversized one resharpened and was wondering how to store it so the teeth would not get damaged.

Make a slot in a piece of scrap wood, wrap some wire around it and hang it up. That way it should last another 20 years before it has to go back to the sharpener. The only thing I use it for is making picture frames, so it will spend a lot of time just hanging there


----------



## Bertha

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


Hey Andy, long time. I know this isn't the best place to put this, but I need help from the saw experts and I don't know where they currently congregate.

I was given a box containing multiple oddly shaped tools, reminiscent of curved files without teeth, lol.

Here is the box unopened.









Eh, it looks like they'll only give me 5MB


----------



## Bertha

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


And here's the box opened:









I'll cut these file sizes down first…

Here's the single handled tool. It is marked Goodell Pratt, but wait!......


----------



## Bertha

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


...All rest are stamped Disston


----------



## Bertha

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


So my question for the experts is…what the hell are these things?
The best thing I can come up with is "bearing scrapers", but I'm just repeating what google said.
Anyhow, I've got what looks like a full set of Disston whatevers! 
Any info appreciated, and sorry for invading this thread.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


Nice set of bearing scrapers. I don't know what they're worth, all I typically see is one at a time.


----------



## Bertha

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


Hey Don, a buddy of mine found them within a $50 bargain bucket. I can't find anything about Disston scrapers on the web, so they must be uncommon. They're not technically (in my mind) mine. My buddy gave me the contents of the bucket, but I told him I couldn't accept them if they were valuable. I'm looking for someone to say "holy $hit!" I've been looking for those forever, lol. Neither me or my buddy care about any money, except as above. You know better than most, find a good home, etc.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 Identification & Restoration*
> 
> After spending quite a bit of time researching the history of my W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner saws, I was looking forward to finding out about this Disston backsaw from across the pond. After all, we have the wonderfully detailed Disstonian Institute web site at our disposal. Yep, finding out about this backsaw was going to be easy, or so I thought.
> 
> When I started my research, I obviously knew it was a Disston backsaw, but I had no idea what model. This is how the saw looked when it came into my possession. The saw plate is 12" long, straight and filed 16 TPI Rip with just a couple of patches of minor pitting. The depth of cut is 3".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The apple handle was also in pretty good condition with the usual dents, one small crack and the odd paint splash. This is the first saw I've purchased that didn't have a plethora of owner's names stamped all over the handle which was a welcome bonus. However I was amazed to see that at some point in this saw's life, a previous owner had wiped the handle with a dark stain without removing it first. They wiped straight over the bolts, the medallion, the brass back and they even got it on the saw plate. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have nice tools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw handle also features a double nib in front of the top horn and two hound's teeth in front of the bottom horn. Now I've got nothing against double nibs, but in my opinion they are just too small on this handle. If you hold the saw at arm's length, they become very difficult to make out. To my eyes, they would be more in proportion if they'd been filed a little taller, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I headed on over to the Disstonian Institute's web site to find out what I could about my saw. My first stop was to the section where they show all the different medallions that Disston used over the years. This is what mine looks like and according to the site, Disston used this 13/16" diameter medallion on their backsaws from 1896-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My next port of call was to the Backsaws section, where I felt sure I'd see my saw. Not so. I found out that not counting their three dovetail saws (Nos.68, 70 & 71) or their miterbox saws, Disston made three general purpose backsaws from the early days of the company right up until 1928. The common No.4 had a blued steel back, the No.5 had a brass back and the No.7 had a bright steel back. Great I thought, it's a No.5 then. However none of the handles on the page had double nibs. I couldn't even find any mention of them in the backsaw section. Also interesting to note is that at that time, it was a 'special order' to have the teeth cut for rip sawing. The standard configuration was for crosscutting.
> 
> Apparently Disston ditched the traditional V-groove in their handles in 1918 in favour of a more rounded shape. This provided me with additional evidence that my saw was pre-1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some pictures of the different stamps that Disston put on their spines and it seems that they started using the stamp on my saw at the beginning of the 20th century. That enabled me to narrow the date down a bit more to 1900-1917.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anyone interested in researching their own Disston backsaw, there is also a nice back and handle study by Philip W. Baker on WKFineTools.com. Although his study does show some older examples of handles with double nibs, there are none shown for the time period from which my saw dates.
> 
> So frustrated at not finding a backsaw handle with two nibs, I turned to Google to try and find a photo on the web of a No.5 that looked like mine. After a couple of hours, I eventually found a saw that was sold on eBay.com.au. It was a 14" No.5 with a double nib. Here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean about the two nibs being indistinct? When viewed from the side they are almost invisible on this saw, but they are there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof at last that I was the proud owner of a No.5. However, I still wanted to find out if the double nib was standard on these saws, or whether they were a special order. Luckily, another search took me to Hyperkitten.com, where I found a 12" No.7 with a bright steel back filed 11 TPI that had previously been sold on the site. It has a 3" depth of cut the same as mine. It is much older than mine though with the medallion dating it to around 1865.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The text said "The 4 and 7 were similar except for the finish on the back and a slightly more ornate handle on the 7. The 7's handle had the double nib on top of the apple handle and double hound's tooth on the bottom."
> 
> When my saw was made (1900-1917), per dozen a 12" No.4 cost $16.00, a No.7 cost $17.00 and the No.5 cost $21.00. Since the No.7 was given a double nib handle, I think it is safe to assume that the more expensive No.5 would also have it, so that answered that question to my satisfaction.
> 
> Now that I knew what I had, I took it apart and started restoring it. The restoration followed the same process as before, however I did have some extra steps that are worth mentioning. When I examined the handle, I noticed that the side of the grip on the medallion side was darker than the rest of the handle as you can see here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I had sanded and filed it back to bare wood, I found that there was indeed an ugly black stain which looked a lot like ink. Unfortunately, it was too deep for me to sand it out. Since the rest of the saw was coming up a treat, I was pretty hacked off that the handle would let this saw down. It was then that I did something stupid. I knew it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Tell me I'm not alone! I wiped on a coat of boiled linseed oil (BLO) to see what it would look like. Well it looked like this. Yuk! Now you could clearly see the stain and I was having one of those I wish I hadn't done that moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was even more annoying because the other side looked great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I figured I had three options.
> 
> 
> Carry on with my finishing regime and just live with it
> Make a new handle
> Ebonise it so that the whole handle was black.
> 
> I didn't relish going with any of these options, so I asked for advice on the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying thread. Need2boat suggested that I try Oxalic acid, so I rushed out to pick up a bottle of Liberon Wood Bleacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wearing long sleeves, rubber gloves and eye protection, I grabbed a cheap artist's brush and applied the acid to the stained area. It soaked straight into the wood. I stood and stared, but the stain remained. Crap, that's more money wasted I thought. Throwing caution to the wind, I hit it a couple more times. I had nothing to lose now and was already resigned to the fact that I'd have to make a new handle. At this point the phone rang and I went inside to answer it. When I returned after about 30 minutes, I couldn't believe my eyes. The acid was working its magic and the stain was disappearing. The following photo is a progress shot. Bear in mind that the handle is wet here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filled with a heady cocktail of excitement and relief (or maybe just the fumes from the acid), I slapped on even more. After about an hour the stain had diminished further. I let it dry then washed off the acid residue under the tap. Once the handle had dried out, I applied the acid for a second time to see if I could get rid of any remaining traces of the stain. I'm pleased to say that it worked remarkably well. The following photo shows the final result of using the acid. At this point, I hadn't sanded it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes folks, proof that Liberon Wood Bleacher really does work. But alas, the drama wasn't over yet my friends. Having been bleached, dried, washed, dried, bleached, dried, washed and dried again, the wood was now VERY dry. You remember that little crack that I pointed out in one of the previous photos? Well it had now opened up to a gap of about 1mm and the whole handle felt very fragile. So I grabbed a thin artist's palette knife and some Titebond 3 and carefully pushed the glue down into the crack as far as I could. Then with my heart in my mouth, I gradually closed the gap with a clamp. Luckily, I didn't hear a crack and when I removed the clamp a few hours later, the glue held. Anxious to relieve any internal stresses in the wood, I liberally coated the handle with BLO.
> 
> After a second coat of BLO had dried, I slid the handle onto the saw plate to see how it looked. I love BLO, but on some woods it can look a bit too red and I felt this was one of those times. Against the brass back, it just didn't look right to my eyes. It needed to be more of a golden colour. So I wiped on a coat of Liberon Finishing Oil which is amber in colour. It is also less viscous than BLO and therefore seeps deeper into the wood. This gave me the effect I was after and toned down the reddishness somewhat. This was followed by three thin coats of satin varnish mixed 3:1 with pure turpentine to make it easy to wipe on. Finally I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.
> 
> And so we come to the end of another saw restoration and it's time for the reveal.
> 
> Here's the saw before I started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gave this saw my 'A' game and it was A LOT of hard work. Looking at it now though, it was definitely worth all the drama. I LOVE this saw. So, just in case there is anyone out there who is contemplating paying me a visit in the dead of night to……er……borrow it, I'd like to make it clear that the Rottweiler's teeth have been sharpened to a point and……well…..he ain't happy about it!
> 
> Until next time.


Someone who collects mechanics tools would probably be interested. Or someone who collects disston. Post them in the saw thread, you might get some takers their


----------



## Brit

*Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*

Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.










It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.










The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.










Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.










And here it is after restoration.




























A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.



















This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.

Now what's next…


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


i wish I could say something, but I'm speechless.


----------



## Egor

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


Great job on the restoration.


----------



## SamuelP

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


Brilliant!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


Thanks guys. You know I had thought that restoring a little dovetail saw would be easier than doing a 14" backsaw, but it only took a couple of hours less time. My shoulders and hands still ache as much.


----------



## BrandonW

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


Great work andying that saw, Brit. It's beautiful. My suggestion, however, is to get rid of it and restore one of S&P's finer dovetail saws instead. Consider this one "practice." I'll take it off your hands if you like-really doing you a favor. I'll even pay for shipping.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


*Brandon* said: "Consider this one 'practice'. I'll take it off your hands if you like-really doing you a favor."

Man you've got two hopes - Bob Hope and no nope.  Anyone would think I do this for the fun of it!

Anyhow I thought I'd share a progress shot of where I'm at with my backsaws, mainly because I'm a big kid and just wanted to lay them all out in a line and smile. I have four more backsaw to restore, before I move on to the handsaw pile. Why don't you all decide which one I should do next. Pick a number from 1 to 4.










You've got a couple of days to decide, while my shoulders and arms recover from sanding this one.


----------



## racerglen

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


Those need work ? Oh right, it's Andy time !
uumm, number 4 ?
Can't belive the quality of your work Andy, another beaut from the Brit .

;-)


----------



## SamuelP

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


4


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


Wow, it really turned out great. Interesting logo on this one. Where/how did you find your saws? Well done Andy, thanks for sharing.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


A fine display of Andyfication.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


*Shane* - Last year I bought eight backsaws, one of which is not in the above photo. The eigth saw which is by far the oldest of the bunch (1849) has some serious issues. I might tackle it at a later date if I can face doing another saw. They all came from ebay.co.uk, as did all but one of the handsaws I'll be doing next. It came from www.oldtools.co.uk.

Looks like No. 4 is in the lead, but there's still time to vote folks.


----------



## BrandonW

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


I vote # 1.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


A real beauty Andy, almost too pretty to use

You realize that what you call "Need to be Restore" most people call "done". The saw plate on my new veritas saw is not even that shinny.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


Thanks Mauricio, but use it I will.

Well the voting is in and by a 50% majority, No.4 will be next. I'll start it tomorrow.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


Andy, are you still on the bench, you lucky dog!!


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


4. And, this restore is stunningly beautiful…. wow….


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


Thanks Smitty.

Yes Don, still on the bench working hard from the comfort of my armchair. As you know, one of the dangers of working from home is that you don't get enough exercise, so I have to take regular walks to the shop.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


Yes because this email design document I'm writing is so physically demanding. Of course the 1400 mile plane ride really is, just not the right kind.

Enjoy that bench.


----------



## Woodfix

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


Beautiful job. What more can be said.

Doug


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


Thanks Doug, almost as nice as the one you made.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


Number two since it could also need some shaping on the handle.
What a wonderful set of saws you have collected.
I simply love the socond from the right, it has such a elegant handle.
Best thoughts to you and yours,
Mads


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


Hey Mads. I hope you're well old boy and still living life to the full.

Since you were late to the party Mads, I've already started No.4 which has a little issue that I'm struggling to resolve, but I will. No.2 will be next and yes it will be time to indulge in a bit of reshaping.

It took some patience, but I think I've got all the backsaws I need now. Well maybe another dovetail saw just to make up the numbers.  I'm going to be talking a bit more about handle shape and which aspects of a handle are what I consider important. Also, how certain features can help you date a saw. The second from right (a new Gramercy dovetail saw) has a very different handle to the rest. There are good points and bad points about it in my view, but I'll get to that later in the series.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


Look forward my dear friend.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## FrankonThetis

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


Brit

Sorry to open a old post but wondering about a S&J saw. Have a S&J 9" leap frog dovetail saw. It looks similar to yours but can find no information on the years S&J made these saws. You date yours between 1915-1925. Just wondering as BSSM reference says Bc1920 [Leapfrog No 46 - 2nd quality] | 76mm. Were all Leapfrog saws No 46's or was that reference to a particular type i.e. dovetail, carcasse etc? Google would just spew out eBay sales.
Thanks


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


Frank - Like you, I searched in vain for some concrete evidence of when the Leap Frog brand was sold. All I know is that the Leap Frog brand is shown in a 1915 Spear and Jackson catalogue. It may have been around earlier than that, but I couldn't find any evidence of that. As to how long the brand lasted, I don't really know but I think it went on for some time.

I believe I'm right in saying that not all Leap Frog saws were No.46's.

What is BSSM?


----------



## FrankonThetis

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


Brit

Thanks for that info. Definite lack of information available out here on the west coast of Canada. Often shake my head in wonder at the easy access you have to old tools and written information about same.

BSSM British Saws & Saw Makers by Simon Barley. Had noted the use of that acronym on Backsaw.net forum. In a previous life used way too many acronyms and sometimes forget their use can cause problems.

Does your 1915 Spear & Jackson catalogue list the identity numbers of the types of saws they manufactured? Was the No 46 a backsaw? Reason for question is a local Antique Dealer has an old Spear & Jackson rip saw with split nuts. Teeth, grip, medallion are in decent shape but the plate is somewhat bent. Has been hanging around for some months now and it keeps asking me to take it home!!

Frank


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


I don't actually have the catalogue, I just remember reading a post on a forum somewhere where one of the people had it and said that leap frog saws were in there. Yes the No.46 was a backsaw. Get the saw Frank, you know you want to. )


----------



## Arts_and_Crafts_DIY

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


Thumbs up from me! You are doing a grat job with the restorations but more importantly with your "educational mission". Just recently i have purchased an old S & J sash saw (I believe). Where do you find your informations on (especially this) saw/s ? I haven't been able to identify it.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


ToolsAndCraft - Thanks for the compliment. Try this thread on LJs for saw information. Lots of information there.


----------



## SouthAmericanWWorker

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


Awesome job! what kind of finish did you apply to the handle? it looks really amazing!

I'm trying to restore a vintage German compass saw, the handle looks like beech and I would be extremely happy if I could achieve the same finish you did with your saw, regards!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail Saw Restoration*
> 
> Just a quick post to share a lovely little gem that I've just finished restoring. This is an 8" dovetail saw, filed 15 TPI rip, made by Spear and Jackson sometime between 1915 and 1925 I think. There's some minor pitting on both sides of the plate, but nothing that will affect the saw in use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a nice thin plate which is just what's needed in a dovetail saw and a 2" depth of cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle is English beech and very comfortable in the hand. It is not dissimilar to the Disston handle on the last saw I restored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, Spear and Jackson made saws under a number of different trade marks. This one is marked with the Leap-Frog brand, which I think was the last of the quality saws to come out of this once great British saw maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here it is after restoration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple with flash to show the grain in the handle better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really nice, well-balanced saw. If you see a good one of these, do yourself a favour and buy it. I can't wait to sharpen this one and try it out.
> 
> Now what's next…


1. Sanded to P320.
2. Wiped on a coat of Boiled Linseed Oil. Wait 20 mins and wipe over with clean paper towel to remove excess oil. Leave until bone dry.
3. Mix three teaspoons of satin polyurethane with 1 teaspoon of pure turpentine. Wipe on a coat. Wait about 6 hours and wipe on another coat. Allow to thoroughly dry.
4. Very gently wipe over the surface with 0000 steel wool to de-nib the surface. Be careful of the edges as you can easily blow through the varnish. Wipe the dust off.
5. Apply a coat of clear wax. Allow to dry and buff with clean cotton rag.


----------



## Brit

*12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*

As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.










I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.










The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.

The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.



















The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.



















I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.

Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.










So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.

Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.

Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.

So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.










To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.










When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.










A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.










So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.




























Thanks for watching.


----------



## hhhopks

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


My eyes are hurting from the shine.

Congrat on another awesome restoration. 
Looks brand new!

How about showing us how to shapening it?
How well will it cut?


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


1 cant-believe you would put that crooked SaW your shop. Send that to me..Im used to crooked stuff.

I think you've outdone yourself. I like this one a lot.


----------



## need2boat

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


Andy,

I don't have a lot of first hand experience on smithing backsaws and what you did to fix this one seems smart to me but I learned at the class with Matt that often tension and bends on back saws can be caused by tension in back and or saw plate. Because of that it's often good to start by removing the back from saw and inspecting them.

The process was surprising simple. Matt used a leather metal bench vise that he had leather lined the teeth with. He then put the saw in the vise, teeth up, back down and used a small block of wood and started at one end and slowly taped it off. Then after any adjustments reversed the process. He also added the brass backs are easier then steel due to the metal.

I might have a picture at home I can post. I'll look when I get home,

JFF


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


I never thought of leather lining. I usually use my wood jaws teeth Dow and tap up it seems to work and the wood doesn't hurt. All I've done have needed sharpening anyhow.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


*hhhopks* - I've got three more backsaws to restore. The next one has a really ugly handle, so it will get some major reshaping. It is a much later saw, but there is nothing wrong with the saw plate. The other two both have interesting stories to tell. After that I will be building my saw vise (already have the stuff for it) and then I will sharpen them all to task. So stick around buddy, it's coming. After they've all been sharpened, I'll build them a home in the form of a saw till.

*Don* - Thanks. Once I got myself motivated, it was easy.

*Joe* - I thought about taking the back off on this one. It doesn't scare me. I've seen Mike Wensloff do it and it is simple to do. My problem though is that I don't have a metal vise at the moment. All I have is my workmate and well you've seen that piece of crap.  Luckily I got away without needing to do it this time.


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


You are really doing some fine work Andy. I have to be careful, or I may actually learn something. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


Thanks Shane.


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


Museum quality. A super detailed blog. And a photogenic saw. Andy I am impressed sir. Job well done, well done indeed.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


Cheers Dave. The wife has just gone to bed, so I'm off to watch your shop video now.


----------



## planepassion

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


Another gorgeous addition to your future saw till buddy. Andy, do you use sandpaper on the brass back too? The same as the saw plate?

I love the ingenious ways that you solve the crux of your restorations….wood bleach on one, an improvised jig to straighten the spine on another. You've inspired me to restore my S&J Leapfrog Tenon saw that I picked up on Ebay a couple of years ago…from someone in the UK.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


Thanks Brad. Yes I do sand the brass starting at P240, then P320, then P600. I follow that with 0000 steel wool and then brass polish.

I'm a great believer that there is usually a way to fix things with what you have to hand if you think about it long enough. In retrospect though it was silly to hit the brass back with the hotel card keys supporting the middle of the plate. That is probably why I got a slight wave afterwards. What I should have done is support the entire length of the toothline.


----------



## SamuelP

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


Every time I see one of your saws I cannot wait to finish my bench and work on the few saws I have. I am also excited for the out door flea markets to open back up so I can acquire way more than I need.

Great job and thanks for the inspiration.


----------



## tsangell

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


Wow. This saw is born again.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


*Sprevratil* - Glad you find it inspiring Sam. I can't wait to see those saws.

*tsangell* - Thanks. I'm getting really excited about sharpening them all up and using them now.


----------



## need2boat

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


It's not a great picture but you can see the vice as Matt works the back off the saw.










It's a machinist vise that he leather lined the jaws.

Joe


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


Thanks for the photo Joe. That looks to be just the job for gripping the plate whilst removing the spine. What has Matt got in the little red tackle box? Is that where he put the saw bolts?


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


Andy you are making such beautiful work.
Another beauty is ready for the shop.
I reallt have to take a look soon at my saws…
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## need2boat

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


Andy,

That was just spare parts sitting on a stack of apple wood. I had asked if he might have any for a horn repair I was going to do and he was kind enough to bring a few chunks he gets local. Apples not to hard to get here, it's the English beach we could use. ;-)

He stores the nuts for a saw in progress in a block of wood with holes drill in. I spoke to this a little on my blog. Then polishes them before replacing in the saw. Whem I was in middle school I took small engine repair and we used cardboard to hold bolts, so you didn't loose them, plus holds them for painting. it's kind of the same idea.

Joe


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


I'm not sure you can even get English beech in England now Joe, at least not in any quantity. It is now sold as European beech and I think most, if not all of it comes from outside the UK.

I think a bit of wood with holes drilled in it is a brilliant idea, especially with the old-fashioned split nuts. If you don't get those babies back in the holes they came out of it sticks out a mile.


----------



## need2boat

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


Yes, I've heard that about English Beach wood. I guess it been over cut like koa wood in hawaii. What I've been doing for smaller horn repairs is just cutting apart wooden plans. I picked up two transition plans that were missing the metal parts and it's surprising how much wood they yeld.

The only issue with the split nuts is the backs. I keep them in a film canister (remember them!) till ready to go back. I'm always worried I'll loose them and they are crazy hard to find around me. Most of the saw I come across raised medallions.

Joe


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


Modern European beech doesn't seem to be the same to me Joe. I repaired my 14" Tyzack with some European beech from a dowel. It didn't take the BLO at all unlike the rest of the handle. That's one of the reasons why I always try to restore a saw handle rather than make a new one.

I keep my nuts….no let me rephrase that. I keep my saw nuts in the tops off of household aerosol cans. I have another 14" Tyzack which is a special edition and I took the handle off of it months ago and put the nuts in one of the aerosol tops and put it on a shelf. A couple of months went by and I was working on something else and knocked the top off the shelf sending the nuts and bolts flying in every direction. I found three nuts and two bolts, but the other bolt was nowhere to be seen. I spent hours searching for it, but couldn't find it. I told myself it would turn up eventually and a couple of weeks ago it did. My Stanley planes (No.7 through to No.3) were leaning on their ends against the wall. The missing bolt had lodged itself in the back of the frog of my No.6. I was mighty pleased to see it again I can tell you.


----------



## need2boat

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


I would think on your end finding old beach planes isn't to hard or expensive and that would be the way to go for future horn replacements unless you feel cutting them apart is an issue. Here often you can find them in such bad repair that I see it more like the circle of life thing. it's till doesn't match perfect but the grain is much closer.

I try and put a lid on everything if I can, but like Matt I have lots of those pill or fishing tackle boxes I use for a host of junk. Just gota watch the next thing you have stacks of them. ;-)


----------



## planepassion

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


Andy, by chance do you have any information as to the age of your saw? Date ranges?

I'm trying to date my S&J rip tenon saw but not having much luck tracking down info.









Spear & Jackson Warranted Shefield Cast Steel, Leap-Frog logo.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


*Brad* - I'm not 100% certain but I believe S&J started making the Leap Frog brand in 1915. I don't know how long they made them for after that though.


----------



## Timbo

Brit said:


> *12" Spear & Jackson Carcass Saw Restoration*
> 
> As chosen by you, the next back saw is a 12" carcass saw also by Spear & Jackson with the leap frog trade mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this saw, not because I really needed another 12" carcass saw, but because it features an extra heavy brass back. I wanted to see and feel how this feature influences the cutting action of a backsaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blade is filed 10 TPI crosscut and canted by 1/8". That means that the distance from the toothline to the underside of the brass back is less at the toe than it is at the heel (handle end). At the toe it measures 2 7/16" and at the heel it measures 2 9/16". I don't know whether this is the result of bad jointing, the plate slipping in the brass back, or if the saw was originally supplied with a canted plate. Personally though, I quite like canted backsaws. It means that if you saw with the brass back horizontal, the teeth at the heel end (closest to you) will reach full depth before the teeth on the far side of the cut that you can't see. When the teeth at the heel reach full depth, you simply lift the handle slightly and make a couple more strokes to bring the back of the cut to full depth. I'll be returning to the subject of canted saw plates in a later episode in this series, so I'll leave it there for now.
> 
> The plate shows signs of light pitting over the entire surface and a few localized spots of heavier pitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle on this saw shows many signs of abuse. Dents and scratches abound, as do the obligatory paint splashes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the shape of this handle doesn't exactly inspire me. It doesn't feature the bump on the back of the grip that I've come to appreciate and the horns are far too thick to my eyes. The bit I hate most though is the bottom part of the handle that joins the grip to the cheeks. No longer the graceful sweeping curves of the lamb's tongues we saw on the Tyzack handles, but rather a hurriedly mass-produced spindle-sanded mish mash of flats and thicknesses, that don't look good from any angle. There's nothing elegant about it I'm sad to say.
> 
> Having rubbished this handle however, I have to admit that it is not uncomfortable to actually hold and I do like the saw bolts. Unlike the old split nuts that are prone to breaking and never look as good when you reinstall them as they did before you took them off, these bolts are much more durable and easy to use. Each bolt features four lugs that grip the wood and prevent the bolt from spinning when you tighten it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I took the saw apart, cleaned the plate and then started sanding it. I should mention that when I sand a backsaw plate, I put it on a granite cutting board that I bought for £10 from the supermarket with the brass back hanging off the edge. Using this method, the saw plate is resting on a flat surface and I can apply as much pressure as I like with my sanding block as I progress up through the grits. On this saw, I started with P80 grit and after about fifty strokes, I noticed that I was getting a 3" long by 2" wide shiny spot in the middle of the plate, just under the brass back.
> 
> Now one thing I always do before I start sanding is sight along the toothline from one end to see if it is straight. There is no point in sanding a wavy toothline as you will just make the plate thinner in some places than others. If the saw plate is wavy, you have to fix that before you start sanding. The toothline on this saw was the straightest of all the backsaws I've done to date. However, this saw taught me a valuable lesson. It isn't enough to sight along the toothline, you also have to sight along the underside of the brass back. On this saw, although the toothline was straight, the brass back was bent in the middle. I wasn't expecting that and I must admit I scratched my head for a couple of days trying to think of a way to fix it.
> 
> Now you might ask "Why is it so important?" Well I like my backsaws to have the least amount of set possible. On a dovetail saw, I try to get away with no set at all. On a carcass saw, I would want a maximum of .003" either side. That will create a kerf of .006", so if the back is bent more than that, not only will the saw not cut straight, but it will bind in the kerf.
> 
> So this is what I came up with. First I had to determine exactly how much it was bent and at what point along the back it was bent the most. I tried sighting along the saw and putting my finger where I thought it was bent the most, but after doing this three times, I got a different point each time. As you can see in the following photo, what I did was to lay the saw concave side down on the granite worktop in my kitchen. (The two sheets of paper under the saw are only there to make the saw stand out in the photos.) I propped the saw plate up with four hotel card keys so it was lying horizontally. I took a sheet of paper and measured it's thickness to be .005" with my micrometer. I then used the paper like a feeler gauge. Sliding it under the brass back, I moved it to the left as far as I could and marked that spot with the inside edge of a piece of blue tape. Then I moved the paper to the right and marked it again. I then measured the distance between the two inside edges of the tape and marked the center point with a felt tip pen. That gave me the point where the back deviated the most from straight. I measured the gap at that point to be .010"; too much to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To fix it without marking the brass or bending it too much the other way, I put the granite plate I use to sand saw plates on my workbench and supported the saw on three MDF blocks cut from the same sheet. I then used another MDF block as a gauge. Initially I could slide the block under the back and it didn't touch it. Using a deadblow mallet, I gently hit the back on my center mark. I gradually increased the amount of pressure with each strike and kept sliding the gauge block underneath the back. When the block just slid under the back and there was no up and down movement, I knew it was straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I sighted along the underside of the brass back, it was perfectly straight. However, now the toothline had a wave in it. That didn't scare me though. I held the brass back with the teeth uppermost and rapped the toe end on one of the MDF blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few whacks later, the toothline was straight again. After testing that the holes in the handle still lined up with the holes in the plate, I got back to sanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw. There are still a few dents and marks on the handle, but you can only sand so much. I did rasp and file some of that thickness out of the horns though to make them look a bit more in proportion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching.


Andy, I just picked up the same S&P leap frog saw today, looks to be a different handle though. Thanks for posing this, I was wondering about the leap frog stamp.


----------



## Brit

*Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*

Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.










Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.










What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.










What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.










To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.










There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.










They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?










As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.










I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?










So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.










I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.










After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.



















A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.










With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.










Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…










…and removed it using a round rasp.










To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.










I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.










Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.










With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.










Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.










I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!










After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.










Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!










I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.










Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.










Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.










Next I file a flat in front of the clip…










…and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.










It's taking shape now.










Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.










It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.










Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…










…and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.










In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.










Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.










Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.




























Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.










Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.










My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.










Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.










I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.










To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…










…and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.










Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.










All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.










After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.










So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.





































I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…










I'd just like to say…



















Thanks for watching


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Someone said they were having a problem posting a comment on here, so this is a test.


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Amen, Andy well done sir.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Wow! Amazing! Amen!

(you've out-Andy'd yourself…)


----------



## SamuelP

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


AMEN!


----------



## deleteme

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Beautiful redesign. I admire your patience and technique. I'll be picking up a few files and rasps after seeing this. Looks like this handle making business is just the kind of nerve racking I like. Thanka for sharing!


----------



## racerglen

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Aye-Men !
Another Andy tour de force .


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


*Shane, Smitty, Sam, Glen* - Thanks guys. Glad you made it through all those pictures. I was going to break it into two parts, but decided to just go for it in the end.

*Paul* - To be honest, the lamb's tongue was easier than I thought it would be once I'd decided on the correct order to do it. I think it helped that I've recently been sanding a lot of saw handles with lamb's tongues, so the shapes and curves were kind of in my head anyway.


----------



## planepassion

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


I love the blow by blow, starting with a comparison to your ideal handle, then methodically takeing on each element one after another.

This was my favorite part:

"To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves."

That explains in simple and relatable terms somepretty complex hand movements. Well done Andy.


----------



## stefang

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


You are barking mad Andy, but I love the obsessive way you greatly improved the handle. That's what knowledge does to you. I would't have known the difference before your great blog, but now like you I will never be satisfied again. That's what makes life worth living!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Thanks *Brad*. I guess all those years as a Technical Author explaining the ins and outs of diesel fuel injection pumps didn't go to waste then.

*Stefang* - WOOF! Once you get past fifty, you just don't care anymore Mike.


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Amen! Bravo on the refurb - modification. Andy another well detailed blog. These types of blogs can be used buy a laymen to get near the same results. Well done.
OK I can't help myself. I have to show this to one of you saw guys. I was shopping the other day and saw this. The first thing that crossed my mind was a saw vice. Its not. I know what it is now. But the vise is tensioned and locked by your foot as you sit.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Ok Dave I'll bite. Is it a leatherworker's vise to hold the leather while stitching two pieces together?


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


You nailed it. Now spin the vice 90 degrees and you could sharpen your saw


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


I only knew because I've seen Mads using something similar except his is clamped between his knees.

I don't know about sharpening saws in it though. I'm not sure I'd trust myself to keep the pressure on with my foot for one thing and you'd be for ever re-positioning the saw as you moved along the toothline.


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Andy it had stepped notches at the bottom. You could set the tension as tight as you wanted.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Cool. I love the seat with the scalloped edges for your legs.


----------



## 559dustdesigns

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Thank you for sharing your saw reshaping, it looks so much better.


----------



## BrandonW

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Andy, another wonderful post! Great work. I absolutely loved all the pictures and the way you documented your approach. I'm glad you kept that old beech handle, but I'm sure if a saw historian ever came across that wooly mammoth saw they'd be very confused.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


*Aaron* - My pleasure

*Brandon *- I'm confused about a lot of things, why should they get off scot free?


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Nice transformation. I'm probably going to have to do this on my back saw for my miter box saw. Right now I'm fighting with sharpening. Few few just worked. It was like beginners luck. Now I have all the right equipment and did all that reading and the more I sharpen, the worse it gets.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Thanks Don. I can't wait to sharpen my saws up. I'm just going to take my time and hopefully they will cut well at the end. We'll see


----------



## need2boat

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Andy really great job. Most of the handles I've worked on aren't as detailed but I've got a few on deck that are and it's good to see the use of tools

Joe


----------



## AnthonyReed

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Andy your blogs are such a pleasure to read. i am learning so much from you. Thank you for taking the time to document and post your methods.

As for the andification of the saw, it is another amazing transformation. Simply outstanding.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


*Joe* - Thanks. It was easier to do than I thought it would be, even with my less than ideal tools. I need to get some decent rasps and files.

*Anthony* - Glad you enjoy the blogs and thanks for the compliment.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Andy!!!
I love your statement - AMEN.
(You are wonderful my friend).

What a nice handle you made your self there, you always amaze me with your patience, this will be your favorite saw since you put that efford in it.
love the stamped logo on the brass back also.

Smiles and the best of thoughts to you and yours,
Mads


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


I thought you'd like that one Mads. *UP THE REVOLUTION !!!*


----------



## dakremer

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Brit, I have missed all of these restores you've been bloggin about! must not be paying attention!

WOW - you have a real knack for this! You need to get published! I'm serious! You could do a book on restoring stuff like this! I havent hit the "restore bug" yet…...but you make it look really enjoyable and worth doing! Thanks for taking the time to show us all of this!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


*Doug* - I've just been killing time until you got here. 

It can be enjoyable to restore old tools, but for me it is just a means to an end. Restoring tools isn't my hobby, woodworking is. One of the reasons I do woodworking is that I enjoy using beautifully made tools that do a great job, especially hand tools. When I started woodworking, I quickly realised that I would never be able to afford to buy all the tools I wanted new from the likes of Lie Neilsen, so buying and restoring old tools is all I can do. I decided to spend a couple of years primarily restoring tools, so that I could break the back of it. However I look forward to the day when I can use the tools to focus more on working wood because that's where my heart is.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Restoring tools isn't my hobby, woodworking is.

I don't know Andy, you may be missing a calling here. Its hard to believe you just can not be THAT good at something and not enjoy it. I also KNOW you can have more than one hobby. I have a list of hobbies a mile long, but restoring vintage tools has creep to the top I think.

I mean this as the sincerest compliment, given the outcome of your projects, I would love to see what would happen if you had all the right equipment. Although at that point it probably would take some of the fun out of it. What? No more workmate!!

Cheers…...


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


*Don* - I don't know if I'm having a mid-life crisis or what, but I just feel that I'm not getting any younger and I have so many designs and ideas in my head for things I want to make before I can no longer push a plane. Sometimes I get frustrated at not having the tools and space to do the quality of work that I believe I'm capable of, but I do get a kick out of showing that you can still do some nice work on a rusty workmate in the garden.


----------



## SamuelP

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Brit-Where would you be without that workmate?


----------



## ksSlim

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Andy, again you've given us inspiration to restore and revise if necessary.
If you can find or build a "stichin horse" ala Superdav, you coud have several types of jaws.
The horses in my saddle shop have jaws that "lean" to the left about 15 degrees. (easier for right handed stichers)
Mortice in the seat is also angled right to left. Could be redesigned for "lefties".

Thanks again for your restore talent and posting the lessons.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Andy, I know what your saying, but you do produce some pretty nice stuff on a rusty workmate in the garden.


----------



## lysdexic

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Andy, 
I had read this blog over a month ago and internalized the info conveyed. This blog entry provided the gumption to try reshaping a handle. However, with as much reading as I do here on LJ'S and elsewhere I just couldn't remember WHERE I read it. So, all the details that I couldn't quite recall are right here. Still.

I'll go back through tis tomorrow as I turn my attention back to my lowly handle.

Thank you Andy, for sharing your knowledge.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


*Scott* - As I said at the beginning of this blog series, I'm not an expert on saws. It is all new to me too. I've read a lot of theory about saws, but I'm really only just discovering the complexities of these great tools from a practical standpoint. Re-shaping this handle was a trip into the unknown for me. I didn't have the tools that I would have liked to do it, but it does show that even with some cheap, sub-standard tools you can get decent results. I think there is a vast difference between creating a new handle from scratch and having to work with an existing handle to re-shape it. There's only so much re-shaping you can do. At some point in the future, I'll probably make a new handle from scratch for this saw.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Scott, besides Andy's excellent tutorials, take a look at Mad's as well. He has some nice how to's on saw handle reshaping. Between the two of these guys, its like world class saw handle art class.


----------



## WodDawg

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Amen, and nice job on the handle!


----------



## WayneC

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


A belated Amen.


----------



## stefang

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Hi Andy. I don't know how I missed this post earlier, but better late than never. Brilliant work on the saw handle and the saws.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Thanks guys. It was a lot of fun once I got into it. Not as nice as the handles on my other saws, but the best I could do with what I had to work with.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


I was there last, and back now, still loving it and the last pictures.
Best thoughts with a big smile,
Mads


----------



## DavePolaschek

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Andy, I know this blog is ancient in LJs terms, but the bit on shaping the lamb's tongue was exactly the bit of reading I needed this morning. I've a saw I bought off eBay with a misshapen plank of a handle, and I've started turning a piece of curly cherry into a proper tote for it. You've given me the inspiration I needed to get back to it and make some more progress, even though I'm planning an open tote, so there will be no lamb's tongue.










The plate will need some work as well, but this saw was purchased solely with the idea of it being a subject for my experiments in cleaning up and sharpening the plate, plus making a new tote, while not risking any of the saws I actually use on a daily basis. And the price was right. Less than the cost of a six-pack of good beer or a single bottle of wine.

Cheers, mate!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


You are most welcome Dave. I look forward to seeing the finished saw. Good luck! Not that you need it.


----------



## DavePolaschek

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Here's the progress as of yesterday:



















It feels pretty good in my hand, but needs a bit of sanding to get that fuzzy darker bit off the right side, and then a couple more coats of linseed oil while I soak the plate in degreaser and wait for new saw nuts to arrive in the mail. The ones that were on he saw were actually rivets, with rectangular holes in the plate. I may end up drilling new holes as well, but I'll see what the etch on the plate says once I get some of the grease and rust off it.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Shaping a Lamb's Tongue and more*
> 
> Next up on my epic backsaw journey is a much younger saw (60s, 70s? - not sure exactly). It's a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner filed 10 TPI crosscut and sports an extra heavy brass back. I bought this saw because it was cheap and there was nothing wrong with the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gone is the subtle stamp that appeared on the brass back of a 19th century Tyzack saw. Instead, this spine has a rather garish impression. The crisp elephant logo now looks like a partially thawed out woolly mammoth, recently excavated from the frozen tundra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about this plank of wood excuse for a saw handle? The words oh how the mighty have fallen come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an eyesore! It is shapeless, uncomfortable to hold and possesses none of the finesse found on 19th century saw handles from this once great maker. Even the medallion has given way to a plastic washer. It is also longer than is necessary and totally out of proportion, at least to my eyes. Notice too, that it is made from thinner stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To illustrate why this upsets me so much, take a look at the saw plate with a Tyzack handle from the 19th century superimposed on top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There really is no comparison is there? But let's put them side by side anyway just to highlight the differences. After making wonderful backsaws for so long, Tyzacks suddenly decided it would be better to make the handle with a four finger grip instead of the traditional three finger grip that had served artisans well for at least two hundred years. The horns are thick and squared off, the hook, chamfer stop, clip, v-groove and nib have gone. As for the pathetic attempt at a lamb's tongue, words fail me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have also changed the hang of the handle. The hang is the angle of the grip in relation to the toothline. Are they really suggesting that older saws got it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you might have guessed by now, I hate it. In fact, I was all set to make a new handle in the style of their 19th century handles and I even sourced a nice piece of cocabola to make it from. Just for a laugh I was going to film the old handle going up in flames once I'd finished making the new one. Then I looked closer at it and I started to see that perhaps I could make a silk purse out of this sow's ear. Sure I couldn't change the four finger grip or give it a hook, but I could visualize all of the other features that were lacking. I had nothing to lose, so I sketched out some guidelines on the handle and prepared myself for a re-shaping session.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gathered the tools I thought I would need. They are certainly not the best tools for the job. The rasps are too coarse and I could have done with a convex spoke shave and a larger half round file, but sometimes you've just got to make do with what you've got haven't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started re-shaping it to see what would emerge. I decided to begin at the top of the handle and work my way around. For some reason all of the surfaces on the top and bottom of the handle are convex across their width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't like that, so I grabbed the half round rasp and flattened them out. Then I gave the handle a nib with my crosscut saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I sawed out the waste behind the nib which simultaneously increased the curvature of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few swipes of the rasp blended the transitions and reduced the thickness. Then I smoothed it all out with a flat file and rounded the end of the horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle held upside down, I shaped the underside of the upper horn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some shape to the back of the grip and bring out that all important bump that nestles in the palm of the hand. I marked out the waste in pencil…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and removed it using a round rasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To blend it in, I folded a piece of P80 sandpaper and bent it into a U-shape held between my thumb and index finger. Holding the handle in my hand, I used a shoe shine motion back and forth whilst turning the handle. By squeezing and releasing my pressure on the paper, I found I could form different arcs which allowed me to shape the complex curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then used some P180 sandpaper to refine it even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to try it for size and yes, it really does feel better already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the handle upside down in the vise, I removed the convexity from the bottom horn so that it too was flat across its width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I wasted some more wood above the bottom horn to further accentuate the bump in the back of the grip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept looking at the handle from different angles to ensure I wasn't removing too much material. You can't put it back you know!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I blended the back of the grip with P80 followed by P180. Remember this is all just roughing out. I'll refine everything further as the rest of the handle takes shape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to tackle the lamb's tongue. Yikes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I start by thinning out the bottom of the finger hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I moved up the back of the tongue, refining the curve and rasping out the v-groove.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turning the handle upside down in the vise, a couple of strokes with my crosscut saw defined the clip. I always wondered why the clip was there and whilst working on this handle it suddenly dawned on me. Saw handle makers of old would probably have shaped the underside of the lamb's tongue with a convex spoke shave. They would have worked with the grain shaving away from the horns. To finish though, they would have to go against the grain and the clip (probably cut with a chisel) would provide a definite stop cut to sever the fibers of the wood. I've got no proof of this, but it makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I file a flat in front of the clip…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and begin scalloping out the underside of the lamb's tongue with some P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's taking shape now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd roughed out the basic shape, I sanded the rest of the varnish off the handle because I was starting to find it distracting. Now I could see how the light chased the shadows giving birth to the form. There was still quite a bit of refining to do, but I decided to get the other side to this stage before going any further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It occurred to me that I needed a way to ensure that the other side of the lamb's tongue would mirror this side, but how? What I came up with was really simple and worked well. I laid a piece of paper over the handle and held it still with one hand whilst running a finger over all of the hard lines of the handle to emboss the shape into the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I penciled in the lines to make them clearer…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and cut out the shape. I positioned it on the other side of the handle with bits of tape and drew around the lamb's tongue and v-groove. Voila! - a perfect match to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In no time at all, I had it looking the same. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the fun started. You see, a lamb's tongue is a very complex shape. It was a saw handle maker's signature if you will and they really liked to show off. As well as the twists and turns I'd already wrestled with, the lamb's tongue now had to taper inwards when viewed from underneath, similar to the one shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course as I tapered the sides, the tiny flats on the sides of the tongue grew bigger and the undercut between the top of the lamb's tongue and the cheek started to disappear. So I found myself working on the taper, then the scallop, then the undercut, then back to the taper etc, in a seemingly endless cycle. I was really in the zone at this point, constantly looking at the shapes from every angle, pausing only to wipe the sweat from my brow. However, I did manage to take a few shots of the process as I teased the form from the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally I got to a point where it felt like the next stroke of my file could mean the difference between perfection and scrap, so it was time to stop and pour myself a large one. I have to say I emerged with the utmost respect for the saw handle makers of old. So here's my first ever lamb's tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breathing a sigh of relief, I moved on to where the chamfer stop would traditionally have been. This saw has a ridiculous notch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to change this aspect of the handle successfully. After succeeding with the lamb's tongue, I really didn't want to cock it up now. In the end, I decided to go for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to transform this mess into a proper chamfer stop. At best it would just be a nod to the past, but it had to be better than what was there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My flat file has teeth on one edge which I used to define the stop whilst simultaneously filing the chamfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I used my small half round file to shape the other side of the stop, pushing forward whilst rotating the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to file any more off the chamfer, but I still needed to refine the side of the stop. So I covered the teeth on the underside with masking tape, but left the teeth on the side of the file exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To finish this section of the handle, I rasped off the convex shape from what used to be the hook…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed it out with P80 wrapped around a dowel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I ran my file across the flats on top of the chamfers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that was left to do now was ease any hard edges and blend the shape of the grip further with P180, then P240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all that, I looked at the handle and I still felt something wasn't quite right. Then it dawned on me that the top horn was too long. It was out of proportion with the rest of the handle. So I cut about ¼" off the end and thinned it out again with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw with its new comfortable, aesthetically pleasing handle. I tried to give this saw some dignity and I hope you'll agree that it's a vast improvement on what was there before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was too young to join any protests in the 1960s, so I want to make up for it now. To all the tool companies who continue to try to palm us off with crap like this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd just like to say…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching


Looking good Dave.


----------



## Brit

*Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*

2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.

I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.

Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).










During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.










This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.

The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.










Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.










There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.










Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…

"…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).

Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.










Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.










They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:




























Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.

If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.

Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.










Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.

The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.










So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.





































*GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


----------



## JR45

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


I'll second that. That's a really interesting story and the link with the plane is great. I doubt that we will see any similar products made this year that will survive for another 125 years. Thanks for letting us into the history and congratulations on a great restoration job.
Jim


----------



## saddletramp

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


That's a beautiful saw Andy and a hell of a story.

Congrats to you and all of GB on your Diamond Jubilee.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


I typically scroll to the end of a post before reading it. By the time I got through the scroll, I could hear the band playing. Mads actually put the music in his post, you didn't have to it was implied.

Your really do make your saws look amazing. Great job, both the restore and the blog.


----------



## racerglen

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


Andy, you never cease to amaze, great history, great saw and great work !


----------



## hhhopks

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


*Beautiful restoration.*

Any recommendation of places to visit during early part of March? I know the area have many points of interest but actually got very little opportunity to do any real site seeing. I do know the region has:

Just a beatiful country.
Awesome castles, 
Beautiful churches.
Wonderful charming cities/towns.
Birth of railway system (What Thomas the Tank engine trains are model after). 
Roman walls.
Oh yea, ancestry home of George Washington (to the south).


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


*Jim* - Thanks and welcome to LJs. Good to have another countryman on board. You raise an interesting point about whether any British toolmakers will release a special diamond jubilee edition of their tools. You would think the likes of Clifton and Ashley and Ray Iles would jump on it.

*Bob* - Thanks. Any excuse for a few beers and us Brits are there.

*Don* - Not much to do on this one really. A bit of spit and polish was all that was required. I will admit that I had to fight the urge to make the plate shiny, but I think I'm right to preserve the etch on this occasion.

*Glen* - Only one left to go now Glen. The weather is warming up now, so I'll soon be able to work out in the garden again for longer periods. Can't wait to sharpen them all up and try them out.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


*hhhopks* - Where exactly will you be in Britain? Newcastle? Let me know and I'll tell you a few places to see.


----------



## jusfine

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


Very nicely written, the history is so interesting!

The restoration is great!

Also like the little pig!

We are seeing the ads on TV already for your celebrations, all the best!


----------



## hhhopks

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


I visited UK last year, my wife wanted to me to get some memerbila of the wedding. You know, plates, cups, spoon…..etc of Kate and Harry. The typical giftshop tourist things.

Being tie up with meetings…I never had a chance to really shop for it. I figure those things should be easily found at the airport gift shop. Right? Evidently not!

I was difficult to explained to you know who, when I returned home. ; (


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


Wow Andy, great story and writing, and even better looking saw. Just an awesome post overall. A pleasure to read and see.


----------



## BritBoxmaker

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


Excellent restoration, Brit. However not *all* will be celebrating 60 years of QEII, I'm a republican.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


*hhhopks* - have a look at some of the links on this site. March is a bit early for certain visitor atractions, but you might see some things you can fit into your schedule.

*Shane* - Thanks mate. It was a nice way to spend an evening.

*Martyn* - Actually, I'm not much of a flag waver myself. My wife is though, so I getting involved to give her a bit of support. Anything for a quiet life. Hope you like the Olympics instead then.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


*Randy* - At the moment my spare bedroom is full of stuff sporting a Union Jack, ready for the street party. It isn't until June and I'm already fed up hearing about it.


----------



## BritBoxmaker

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


I'm neither proud nor ashamed to be British. I like the country I was born in, particularly its tolerance of different viewpoints. People should follow what they wish. Monarchy just not my cup of tea. I agree the Olympics should be good though.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


Thanks Andy.


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


Andy, that was a well written refurb. I do get in the history of the tools myself. An in depth look at the saw was refreshing. I love history and your story was very nice. Most of what I find were made buy the thousands. But there is that one chance that the man who bought and used it was a well known artisan. If the tool has the users name I will try to see if there is any history on him as well. That was a joy to read and you started in one place and finished in another. Then you connected the two. Well done.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


You're welcome Tony.

Thanks Dave. If you liked this one, you're going to love the next one. Stay tuned!


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


I got popcorn and am raring to go.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


LOL.


----------



## jusfine

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


Andy, some of us still remember when we lowered the Union Jack here in 1965 and raised our own red and white Flag for the first time…

It's a great year for your country!


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


Andy, thanks, that was a great post. The saw is great and I really enjoyed learning a bit of British culture while reading about saws! We dont usually get much of that here so thanks for sharing.

Martyn, thanks for weighing in as well, interesting to get a glimpse of the different points of view over there. And thanks for talking politics in a non emotional/confrontational kind of way. There is not enough of that these days.


----------



## FatherHooligan

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


...and long may she reign over us!
...Hooray!


----------



## Woodfix

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


Great story and well written. Loved the old photos.

Doug


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


Thanks for your support guys.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


Andy, thanks for all the time you put into writing your blogs…love the history lesson…and your finished saws are gorgeous to behold!

You and a few other LJ's have now infected me with the desire to learn all I can about these old handsaws! Looks like I'm a saw restoration wannabe…I just carved a new maple handle (nib, hook, lamb's tongue and all) for my big orange store saw while waiting for newly purchased Disston's to arrive in the mail.

Now, I've got a few post-war cheapo Disston saws to learn on…

So, PLEASE continue sharing your excellent work!

tr


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


Hi Terry, welcome to LJs and thanks for the compliment. I don't know if you've come across it yet, but there is a thread where a lot of us who are interested in old saws hang out.

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/27984#reply-394551

You might want to elect to watch it so you get informed of any new posts. There is also a lot of good information in the history of that thread, so when you've got some time take a look. If you ever have any questions on saw identification, restoration, using, etc., then that is the place to ask questions.


----------



## hhhopks

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


I happen to came across this photo.
My recollection is that it is quite an engineering marvel.
Motors runs hydrualic pumps to turn the bridge to allow ships to go through.

Andy, can you refresh my memory of the details (place, name of the bridge)?


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


That's the millenium bridge in Newcastle Gateshead with the old Baltic Flour Mills building in the background which has now become an arts center. Here's a couple of timelapse videos.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


I wonder what the Victorians would have made of that.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


Thats pretty cool but if I'm a pedestrian I'm thinking, wouldnt it be nicer to walk in a straight line and get there faster? That is after the novelty of the bridge wore off. hahaha, sorry I'm just being a hater, thats a pretty cool bridge…. ;-)


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


*Mauricio* - Don't be so lazy. Exercise is good for you. Anyhow the only way you could cross the river in straight line whilst still allowing boats to pass underneath the bridge would be to first walk up some stairs and back down some stairs on the other side. By the time you'd done that, it would be quicker to walk round a curve.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


Nope you could use a draw bridge… no stairs. Thats how us ******************************'s would have done it. ;-) jk…

However, that is a pretty gloomy looking area and the bridge does do a lot to brighten it up.


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


Hi
If you were to look up river, within spitting distance you would see the Tyne Bridge.[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyne_Bridge] when first built it was the longest single span bridge in the world. It happens to look like the Sydney harbour bridge cos they were both built by Dorman & Long Ltd. Sort of a test run for the longer Sydney Harbour bridge. But just past the Tyne Bridge [still spitting distance] is the 'Swing Bridge' built by Stephenson,[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_Bridge,_River_Tyne ]- So there you have your answer to what the Victorians would make of it! They had already solved the problem of letting bigger boats /ships up river. Originally for the Armstrong Works & Shipyard, where they built the early Battleships. Lord Armstrong was the designer /manufacturer of heavy naval armaments [made him a very rich man] and supplied the Japanese with the heavy cruisers that beat the Russians. Sorry to sound like a nerd but I've picked this stuff up over the years. Suffice to say all the shipyards are now gone along the Tyne river. Lord Armstrong was a great inventor. If you ever get the chance visit his home Cragside Hall, near Rothbury, Northumberland. I'll stop now, this is a woodworking forum- and a good one to boot.
I'm loving ALL the stuff about saws etc. I now blame you -Brit- for my new found interest in braces. I am now scouring weebay for one. The main reason for wanting one [like I need a reason] is cos both my battery drills have given up the ghost.
Great stuff guys- and a big Hello to our American Cousins.
Cheers
John


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


Hello Johnny and welcome to Lumberjocks. Great to have you onboard.

Funny you should mention Armstrong because I originally had a paragraph about him in the draft for this blog. I took it out because I thought I was getting away from saws too much. However, you've given me the opportunity to mention it now. 

As you rightly say, Armstrong was a world leader in arms at that time and was an exhibitor at the Royal Jubilee Exhibition. He used the exhibition to showcase his 'monster' gun. You can see it here on the right.










It had a calibre of 16.25in and a total length of 43ft 8in. Its 1800lb shells emerged from the muzzle at a speed of 2020ft per second, and could penetrate wrought iron to a depth of 30.6in at a distance of 1000yds. The gun had an effective range of 8 miles. It was destined for the most advanced warships of the day.










Outclassing the products of Armstrong's greatest rival, Alfred Krupp of Essen, the monster gun was the main attraction at the Royal Mining, Engineering and Industrial Exhibition, held at Newcastle in 1887 to celebrate the golden jubilee of Queen Victoria's accession to the throne. In that same year, its creator was raised to the peerage as Baron Armstrong of Cragside, the first engineer to be ennobled.

P.S. = Good luck with your brace hunt.


----------



## hhhopks

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


Guns and bridges:
They are tools too. It's just bigger that's all. 
We aren't off topic.

As far as the curvature verses a straight line, it probably doesn't make much differenence after a few pints. It is all the same.

UK is a fascinating country.


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


Brit
Great news (I think). I've acquired my first brace. From weebay. Described as a vintage stanley electricians brace, with a 5" sweep. It's LUSH (new word the kids use). Can't wait to get my sweaty mitts on it!

I went to the Discovery Museum in Newcastle yesterday. It's full of stuff from the great old engineers we had. One incredible exhibit is 'Turbinia' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbinia the real I am in the entrance hall. Built by Charles Algernon Parsons (great name). Later the company became Reyrolle Parsons Based at Wallsend, who went on to build huge electricity turbine generators. Not sure if they still exist though?

Wallsend so named as it is the beginning of Hadrians Wall built by the Romans of course- http://www.twmuseums.org.uk/segedunum/ Segedunum Just one of many Roman forts along the wall. Our region -Newcastle upon Tyne and Northumberland is steeped in history. 
Enough now. 
Cheers
John.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


Congrats on your first brace Johnny. I'm sure you won't stop there though.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


All - I was hoping to post the last of the backsaws today, but it was not to be. I was out all day yesterday visiting my daugter and today is just rain, rain and more rain. Hopefully, I'll get some time this week to finish it off.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


Johnny, welcome to the restorations addiction area.

Andy, sorry to hear about the rain. Your finished projects always give me some motivation.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


What a wonderful saw.
I admire your restore full of respect.
What a wonderful story.
What a wonderful Andy.
Best thoughts my friend,
Mads


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


*Don* - Tomorrow's looking good, so hopefully I can get the plate done and post it on Tuesday.

*Mads* - Cheers buddy.


----------



## Parky

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


I am very pleased to see this blog as I have just been clearing some old tools out of boxes that have stood in my tool shed for many years, and lo and behold I have discovered the same Royal Jubilee saw that you have renovated, so there are at least two of these wonderful saws still around after all these years, I will take great pleasure from following your guide to the restoration of this tool and very much look forward to seeing the result, many thanks,
Mike.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


*Parky* - Good to hear that there is another one in existence.


----------



## hamptonquin

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


Hi Brit
I've been tidying my shed today and came across an old 26" handsaw which belonged to my grandad who lived in Newcastle. It has the same etching of the Cowell & Chapman - Royal Jubilee Exhibition as your 14" backsaw. It's not in the best condition but I'm attaching a couple of photos which I thought you might be interested to see. Regards.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> 2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.
> 
> I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as *Proud to be British*. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.
> 
> Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.
> 
> The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…
> 
> "…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).
> 
> Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.
> 
> If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.
> 
> Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.
> 
> The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…*


Very nice sir. Thank for sharing the photos of your grandad's old saw. Nice to know there are still some examples out there.


----------



## Brit

*Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*

Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.










They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.




























Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.










The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.










Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.

When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.

Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.










The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.










When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.

Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.

The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.





































The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.










For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.

All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.

Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.

This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.










By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).










I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.

Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.

Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.










I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.










The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.










I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.

First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.










Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.










Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.










Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.

Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.

Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.




























Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.

In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.

Thanks for watching!


----------



## Jimi_C

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Not brilliant? That saw is almost 150 years old and you made it look better than some saws that are made today. I think you may have an unrealistically high set of standards  Also eerie that it was March 11th - same day as the Japanese tsunami.


----------



## racerglen

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


WOW !
Done it again Andy !


----------



## Willeh

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Wow, what an incredible restoration.. that saw looks amazing!


----------



## SamuelP

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Andy- I need to look back and see what you use for these kind of results. I would be proud and "flipping out" if I had the caliber of saws that you bring back to life. It must be extra special to use one and see it slice through wood again. I appreciate the work and dedication you put into these. I am completely inspired and in aw of your work. ( I need to get up, my knees are getting sore.)

Seriously; Thank you.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Superb Andy. I agree with Jimi_C… not brilliant? Come on man, you made that saw beautiful. Thanks for the history too. Congratulations on the completion of your backsaws. I look forward to the sharpening blogs.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


*Jimi_C* - You're probably right, my expectations are unrealistic and yes it is spooky the both events happened on 11th March.

*Glenn & Willeh* - Thanks guys!

*Sam* - Thanks for the compliment. As to using them, I won't know until I've sharpened them all up. I'm a newbie to sharpening saws. I tried it once, which was enough to realise it isn't easy.  However, I'm confident I can do it and I'll share the results, be they good or bad.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


*Tony* - Thanks for your support. One of the reasons I blog about my restorations is that I find the peer pressure becomes a motivational tool. Sometimes I need a kick up the jacksy to get going and you guys inadvertantly provide that.


----------



## JR45

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


A fascinating story and a beautiful restoration exercise. Great!
Jim


----------



## SamuelP

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Brit - I might have looked over it, but have you ever encountered an etching on one of your saws? What did, or what would you do with it?


----------



## TominTexas

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Andy - you sir are a restoration master! That is a beautiful saw brought back to life through your effort. The backstory was wonderfully entertaining as well - it's posts like this that make this an outstanding forum. I look forward to following your sharpening adventures.

Regards
Tom


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Hi Andy
Very nice, well done. You are right about the peer pressure 'thing'. I've decided to go back and re-do my G & T Gray 12" Tenon Saw I bought from weebay. I was quite disappointed when I came to dismantle it. One of the two split nuts stripped its thread and was jammed so it had to be drilled out. The other split nut fell to bits after dismantling! The teeth on the saw plate have proved to be fragile and difficult to sharpen because of the pitting in the steel. The moral being is you take a 'Punt' when you buy from Ebay?
I did sharpen it [after a fashion]- which I found is not that straightforward. So I'm looking forward to the next chapter in the Saw Chronicles. 
Cheers
John.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


*JR45* - Thanks. Gald you enjoyed it.

*Sam* - The Cowell and Chapman had an etch (part 6). I think you have to use your judgement when restoring a plate with an etch. On the Cowel and Chapman, I elected to keep it because of its historical value. That meant that I could not sand that side of the plate as much as I would normally. Therefore, there is still some pitting on it. However, I don't think it will affect the use of the saw at all. If it was a saw with a common etch and saw plate was pitted, I'd probably sand it more even if it meant eating into the etch. I think the surface finish of the plate is more important on backsaws than it is on hand saws where you tend to have more set to the teeth and you're not so concerned about the surface finish of the cut. If you do sand a plate with an etch always us a sanding block that is longer than the etch and don't use too much pressure.

*Tom* - Thanks for the compliment.

*John* - I've was quite selective when buying my saws off ebay. I asked questions, asked for additional pictures, made sure they would accept returns, etc. Most things can be fixed, but it depends how much time, money and effort you want to put into it. Personally, I tried to buy saws that were a good quality and didn't involve too much work. On average, I think I probably have 2.5 man days in each saw. I figure that's OK since I hope to use them for the next 20 years.


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Andy
Yes I agree that is the way to go about it! However, despite its' current looks etc., cobbled together with 6mm screws from a [plastic] tenon saw, the handle is very pleasing to hold when in use. The weight of the brass back is great- especially when you can only compare it to cheap modern tenon saws. It is being put to good use at the minute as I'm building a 10 draw spice cupboard, in English Cherry, for the missus
Cheers
John.


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Another great job and write up Andy. Are you putting all these saws to use? If so, how are the performing for you? You got quite the collection going.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


*Shane* - Not yet, but I will be. Restoring them was Phase 1. I am now going to build a saw vise and decide how I want them all sharpened, then sharpen them. Then they will be put to use and start earning their keep.


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Again Andy I felt as though I was there. Thank you for the step back in time and a wonderful refurbish. Well done. You are a wonderful writer.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


WOW! Outstanding job…as usual…from the master! Just makes me want to keep sanding my pitted plates more and more…

And such an intriguing post to read as well! I'm looking forward to the sharpening sessions very much.

Thanks, Andy, for all your efforts!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


*Dave* - Thanks mate.

*Terry* - I'm looking forward to sharpening them up too. I just hope they come out OK or I'm going to look pretty silly after all the time and effort I've put into restoring them. LOL,


----------



## murch

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Brilliant as usual Andy.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Andy I know I read this and was sure I posted yesterday. That is one great looking saw. As usual, nice job. The workmate comes through again.


----------



## SamuelP

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Don W - I think Andy deliberately left his workmate out of posts since the "Workmates of our Dreams" thread started.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


*Murch* - Thank you.

*Don, Sam* - Have no fear, the 'LEGEND' workmate will be featuring in the next two posts.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Andy, you are the no one saw restorer.
I love this one also.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Thanks *Mads*. Give my regards to Shave. How's he getting on with that Roubo?


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


These days a lot is happening in my life, so Shave the man is not seeing me a lot in the work shop.
Otherwise fine thank you.
Smiles.


----------



## planepassion

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


I love how you raise the bar for standards with each post Andy. The creative non-fiction was well written. While we don't know that the guy lit a cigarette…or floated in his nightshirt…it's all plausible.

And I love what you did with the handle. You sanded it enough to make for a great refinish while still leaving some of the deeper "historical" memory of the wood (dents and dings with stain, shellac, sweat and dirt rubbed in). It's a good balance.

You also made the grain of the handle visually POP. Did you use your BLO, wipe-on poly, steel wool + wax treatment to achieve that?

And the gleam of the brass back…well there's just something about that, that makes my heart all aflutter.

I'm really looking forward to seeing the design you use for your saw vise. I built something similar to Dominic Greco's vise.

It's great for backsaws, but I have to shift full-sized saws once to secure it to file all the teeth.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


*Brad* - OK the cigarette was a bit of artistic license, but he really did float around on a cart in his nightgown. In fact the sentence: "*The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.*" was one I stool verbatim from the journalist who wrote down everyone's story after the event. If you click the link I posted above, you can read it for yourself on p50. I copied it basically because every time I read that sentence it makes me chuckle. I just think it is a wonderful example of Victorian understatement. He must have been drenched, frozen, filthy, petrified, embarrassed, in fear of his life and the words he used to describe Wilkinson's nightmare were "…by no means warm or agreeable." LOL.

Yes, it was my usual saw handle finish. The flash on the camera really brings out the grain.

That's a nice saw vise. I almost built one like that myself, but I've ended up going for something much simpler. It will hold an 8" dovetail saw right up to a 28" hand saw. One of my design criteria was that I didn't want to stop filing to reposition the saw.


----------



## BrandonW

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Andy, I thoroughly enjoyed the story. I sure hope you have some good sharpening stories saved up, or else we're gonna ask you to restore more saws and write about their history. It goes without saying, but again this is a superb restoration. You've inspired so many people here to restore old tools-you're doing God's work, as they say.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


there's nothing like the Resurrection of a great brass backed back saw.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration*
> 
> Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.
> 
> When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.
> 
> Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.
> 
> Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.
> 
> The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.
> 
> All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.
> 
> Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.
> 
> This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar  ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.
> 
> Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.
> 
> Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.
> 
> First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.
> 
> Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.
> 
> Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.
> 
> In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.
> 
> Thanks for watching!


*Brandon* - Don't tell anyone, but I do still have another backsaw waiting for restoration. It is the oldest of the bunch, I think I worked it out to be 1849. There is a lot of history to it, but it has a major issue in that the plate is cracked between two of the bolt holes. I'm still deciding what I should do about it which is why I didn't include it in this blog. I can't weld or braize it because the plate would get too hot and affect the temper. I could solder it, but that wouldn't be very strong. I think the best thing is to solder it and then glue a metal shim either side of the plate for support. It will be a lot of work, so I think I'll make it a blog in it's own right at some point in the future.

*Don* - Amen to that.


----------



## Brit

*File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*

Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.

I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.










Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.










Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.










I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.










Here's the first channel done.










Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.










Sawed out the waste…










…and trimmed it to length.










I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…










…and smoothed all the external surfaces.



















After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.










For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.










I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.










Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.










Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.










First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.










Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.










The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.










It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.










Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.










I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.










So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.










And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.










Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.




























This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.










I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.

I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


----------



## JR45

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


You make it look so easy with these photos and explanations. I have a piece of sapele …...!
Jim


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Wonderful holder, I will make me one soon.
And a wonderful informative step by step blog.
Wonderful tools.
Andy - wonderful is the word today.
Best thoughts buddy,
Mads


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


*Jim* - I've seen your projects. You could make this in your sleep. Go for it!

*Mads* - Well that's just wonderful then. I'm missing your coffee by the way. You'll have to put some in a thermos flask and send it to me.


----------



## Timbo

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Great tutorial, I have one that is just a saw kerf with the file jammed in it but will put this in my favorites for when I'm ready to re-make. Thanks.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


yep, gonna need one for sure.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Impressive tutorial and tool…any chance you made two of them by mistake and need to get rid of one?? 

Looking forward to the vise…


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


I'm with you Terry. Andy's seconds still outdo my 1st.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


*Tim* - Thanks.

*Terry & Don* - Actually I do make mistakes. Here's the one that got away…










...and the moral of the story is: Don't sneeze while you're routing. (


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Andy you make me feel guilty. I have a slot in a pine stick. You have broke out the tap and everything. I will make this one of these when I need something to do between projects. Great job thanks.
And its pretty to


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


LOL *Dave* - I bought a set of dies and taps to make something a few years ago and this is the first time I've used any of them.


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Wow Andy great pictures, amd some nice product shots. You should get some sort of royalties. Another nice write up, your legend grows. Well done, again.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


*Shane* - Thanks. We all need a little candy in our lives.


----------



## phtaylor36

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Looks great, can't wait to see it in action!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Thanks *Philip*.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Laugh. I guess I will have to come and visit you one day with my travel espresso machine, just added a jetboil so I can cook water on the go.
Have a wonderful Sunday.
Mads


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


I had a vintage saw jointer in my hand at an antique store yesterday. It was rusted and needed tlc. They wanted $15, I offered $10. It wasn't the $5 that stopped me, it was the "I want one like Andy's" that did.


----------



## racerglen

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Aw, it's too LATE !
I've had the Veritas one for years now, yours looks more comfy though, bit heftier 
in the hand, better grip I'm thinking and it's WOOD !~
Nice work .
(maybe I should build a bigger one for my crosscut saw ?)


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


*Mads* - You will definitely have to come and visit me one day. We can walk on the beach and I'll show you the New Forest national park and then we'll work some wood together. It probably won't be this year what with the street party taking up every inch of my spare room, but it will definitely happen one day.

*Don* - LOL. You could knock one of these out in an hour Don with your wonderful equipment. It feels great in the hand.

*Glen* - You can never have too many tools. Go for it! Actually I meant to mention in the blog that one of the reasons I built the file holder was that it would add some heft. Moving a file along the teeth of a saw whilst keeping the file in line with the teeth does require a bit of Umph and this feels great in the hand. It is very controllable.


----------



## planepassion

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


That's brilliant Andy, and beautiful. I love the juxtoposition of the eye-catching tools along with the file holder.

I like that you tapped four holes in the wood to act as a clamp. I've been using a piece of poplar with a groove for a bastard file as my saw jointing jig. The groove was a bit too wide, so I added some space-age material to tighten the fit (masking tape). The problem was, that the file still slid in its holder when jointing, so I had to hold the file in place as I jointed the saw. That didn't work too well.

Your file holder sparked a memory of a marking knife project I did from one of the woodworking magazines. The knife used a 10×24 set screw to hold the blade in the wood handle. I drilled and tapped two holes in my utilitarian, poplar saw jointing jig and sure enough, the set screws hold the file in place.










While I'd rather have a pretty one like yours, you've salvaged my current solution from the scrap heap until I clear some other projects from my long list to tackle this one.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Thanks, Brad, I've been thinking of set screws on a modified Andy's model all afternoon!

Don't have any Sapele, though.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


*Brad* - Set screws are better in some ways than the slotted pan-heads that I used. I did consider using them, but when I went to buy them, nobody had any of a suitable size so I ended up using what I had. Also, I can never find my allen wrenches, but I can usually lay my hands on a flat-head screwdriver.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


You are a class act Andy. Thank you for the continued enlightenment.


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Hi Andy. Nice work. I was wondering if a wedge assembly might work as effectively as holding with tapped screws? I might have a go at some point. 
You are right about the Allen wrenches. It reminded me of a mate who changed every screw and bolt on his Triumph Tiger Cub to Cap head screws, so he only had to carry 3 Allen wrenches in his jacket pocket. As we all know there was always something gonna come loose on those old Brit Bikes. Lol. Happy days. 
The Bridge City Square is sweet. The one you mentioned on eBay did go for silly money. Also the special edition drill brace they did was absolutely gorgeous. Excellent design and craftsmanship. I think that must have planted the seed to own a nice brace and seeing yours was the decider. 
I refurbished my no:40 Stanley Brace over the week end too. Im really pleased with it!
Cheers
John.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


*Tony* - Thanks for the compliment.

*John* - A wedge would work although not as effectively in my opinion. Years ago, Spear & Jackson wrote a little booklet called Concerning Handsaws which included a section on sharpening. They included this illustration as an example of a file holder that you could make yourself.










It has always puzzled me, because in my opinion the wedge should go in from the front so that the action of filing tightens the wedge. The way they show it, I would think there is a chance that the wedge would work loose and the file would fall out. What is everyone else's opinion?


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


*Andy*
Crumbs- That is pretty much how I imagined it would look. Or perhaps two wedges- working against each other, sort of parallelogram style. [?]
I'm guessing that if the wedge was a good fit then it would keep the file in place purely by friction? 
If a wedge would work it would save some drilling and tapping. But like you I have a set of Taps that has only done 6 holes- maybe? 
I guess you would have to 'suck it and see'?
It is great to see people have got their 'thinking caps on'
Cheers,
John.


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Andy
One more thing- Tell us how you get on with those files from Workshop Heaven. They look pretty good, nice and long. Did you pick them for the TPI you are doing?
Cheers
John


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Ok Andy. I flew about 1400 miles this morning and I'm on my second large Blue Moon. So forgive me if I'm. Slurring a little. If you push on the handle end, which is also the large end of the wedge, wouldn't that tighten it? Or would you hang on the wood and not the file to? I would picture my hand apply force on the back side of the wedge and downward on the file.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


I guess that would tighten it Don or at least keep it engaged. I'd want to round those edges though to make it more comfortable. I still think my design is better though. Unlike a wedge, mine works equally well for both left and right-handed users. Also, I can't help but think that if you want to use different files with that wedge design, over time you're going to wear the wedge taking it out and putting it back in because it is contacting a file. And another thing…mine just looks nicer.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


When I build one it will be your design. I agree your Design is better. Plus I get to tap into wood. That's just plain cool.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


*John* - I bought one file of each each of the available sizes because I have all my backsaws and all of my handsaws to sharpen. I will probably use a few sizes more than others, so I doubt it will be long before I'll be ordering some replacements.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


*Don* - Cool and a lot easier than tapping into metal. I found it worked best holding the tap wrench directly over the tap and turning it with one hand (like winding up a clock), rather than using two hands with one on each arm. You only need a little downward pressure, just enough to keep the tap engaged.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


here's a tip


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Great idea Don. I'll have to remember that one.


----------



## jjw5858

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Terrific post, thats one really nice saw kit you have going there…and the Lie Nielsons….wow!...lol

Great build, thanks for the inspiring work as I am getting…the saw bug….lol!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


*jjw5858* - Thanks for the encouragement. I think saws are probably my favourite hand tools. I hope to finish the saw vise this week and start sharpening them all up.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Yes, Andy's Design is the best I've seen!










Just finished my version of Andy's holder…Bubinga, Maple, and set screws. Mine is just a prototype until I get some real files…but another spacer from Maple should take no time to make. I even shaped 2 frames from Bubinga since it was just as easy as one.

The finished size is 46×46x200mm since I didn't want to copy Andy too closely!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Nice one Terry.

Come on guys, show us your File holders.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


I don't think I have a picture of it holding a file, here it is holding a adjustment knob.










Note the thumb nail is almost cured.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


LOL


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Actually I think Terry said he was sending me the extra one he made.

Nice job Terry.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


*Terry* - What size and length set screws did you use? It might be useful for other people who want to make one. Hell I might make another one with set screws too.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


set screws are 1/4×3/4"

they were too long, so I used the belt sander to remove whatever needed to counter sink them into the bubinga. Although, I bet most any size set screw would work as long as it pressed against the maple spacer…


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Thanks, Don, but I'm the newbie here…YOU don't want my extras… 
;-)

So, where do you guys buy good files?


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Terry, it looks just fine to me. New here? So call it an initiation!!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Yeah you passed the test with flying colors Terry. (Notice how I spelt colour the American way? I'm getting good at International typing  )


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Jeez, *Andy*, do you ever sleep? 

Thanks for approving of my blatent copy of your file holder! I didn't see any reason to 're-invent the wheel' since your holder is so simple and a joy to behold. I'm new to LJ's but it aeems like most folks here share their ideas here so others can learn…no patents intended.

*Don*, maybe you are right…I owe you guys for putting this thread up…and for the free knowledge you share. And I guess I feel sorry for your smashed thumbnail, too!  Send me your snail mail and I'll mail ya that bubinga all drilled and tapped…gotta pay me dues like everyone else…


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Terry nobody should ever feel guilty about copying anthing I make and post on LJs if they feel so inclined. One of the great things about this site is that most people feel the same way. Certainly with regard to jigs and appliances anyway. Personally, I care not a jot so feel free to make a bootleg copy of anything.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Hey Terry, thanks for the offer. I'll make one one of these days. I'm with Andy. This site is full of good idea's.


----------



## planepassion

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Terry-Your file holder came out beautifully. I've jointed two saws since Andy gave me the idea to use set screws to hold the file in the holder-and they held solidly. And I only used two 10×24x1/4" screws because that's all I had on hand. As for using bolts or set screws…tomato, tamato. The key to the no-slip puzzle, was tapping threads to insert a hardware piece to act as a clamp.

Andy,
I agree with you on the mass of your file holder design. Mine is a bit dainty to take on my rip saws. It works, but it doesn't do its job confidently. When I was jointing my newest Disston this morning, I could have sworn I heard the holder grunt.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.











The old school version, dedicated to you Andy.
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/63215


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Brit, I missed this blog earlier, very nice, i like the use of the taps for the screws. Sweet plane too, very nice eye candy.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


I have to make Andy's type. I gave up smoking a pipe a looonngg time ago


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


*Brad* - Sounds like you'll have to make a heftier one when you've got time.

*Mads* - Old school meets new school. Classic design, classy build.

*Mauricio* - I thought you'd like the use of taps. You've kind of got them on the brain at the moment haven't you? Can't wait to see your finished vise screws. The female thread came out fantastic.

*Don* - LOL.

I should finish my saw vise tomorrow, weather permitting. It didn't look that big in Sketchup. LOL. I think I've created a monster. It's a saw vise Jim, but not as we know it.


----------



## need2boat

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Andy,

I'm a bit late to the party but really great job. I've found I just free hand hold mine and use my fingers running along the saw plate keep things level. I would think it's great for scrapers as well.

Joe


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


*Joe* - Thanks buddy.


----------



## gallarotti

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


I watched your two hour long video yesterday and then came back here to see the plans for your saw vise. I am going to obviously try building something similar (adapted to my own situation).
I really like this file holder, also.
A couple of comments/questions:
1) you are saying that you won't be constantly unscrewing and retightening the screws but then how will you be able to change files? 
2) what type of file you use in this holder?
3) I find it ironic how many electric tools you use in your construction of both the vise and this holder knowing how good you are with hand tools and especially with sawing 
Thanks for sharing all your knowledge!
// Francesco


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Hi Francesco. Thanks for sitting through my video. Hope it all made sense. Here are my answers to your questions.

1) you are saying that you won't be constantly unscrewing and retightening the screws but then how will you be able to change files? 
ANSWER: The truth is that ordinarily I will only be using the finer file in the holder. I only use the coarser file if I need to remove a lot of metal which I had to do occasionally when I was restoring my collection of saws and was sharpening them for the first time. Since I made the file holder before I started sharpening my saws, I made it so that both files would fit in it. Now my saws are all sharp, I keep them sharp and that just requires a light swipe with the finer file if I need to joint them.
2) what type of file you use in this holder? 
ANSWER: People have different opinion about what file is best for jointing saw teeth. I use this file made by Bahco most of the time. It is a single cut mill file 8" long. This Nicholson file would also do the job.
3) I find it ironic how many electric tools you use in your construction of both the vise and this holder knowing how good you are with hand tools and especially with sawing 
ANSWER: Yes it is ironic isn't it? The truth is, I'm not a hand tool snob. Most of my power tools were acquired to do DIY and renovate two houses, not for hobbyist woodworking, although obviously they can be brought into play if needed. I woodwork for pleasure and I get just as much pleasure out of learning to use hand tools to achieve good results as I do in the finished project. The truth is that I don't have enough tools (yet) that would allow me to perform every task by hand, so I use what I have available.


----------



## gallarotti

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


What can I say, Andy, not only you answered my questions, but you even provided a link to my favorite store - Dieter Schmidt - which yesterday I was browsing to try to match your list of saw files with what they provide. 
I am very new to woodworking and find every single aspect of it fascinating, but, for some reason, just like you, finding out that an old rusty saw can actually be brought back to life was highly enticing. I tried with a couple of purchases on eBay and considering my inexperience I'd say I did a decent job. But since I am still finding some resistance in my sawing, I'd like to experiment more especially with rake angle and possibly adding some fleam as well. In my first tries I followed Paul Sellers advice and used 0 rake, except for the first couple of inches. Also I did everything by eye, without the level of precision that, thanks to you, I understand now this requires.
Thanks!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Glad to help Francesco. If you like saws, you might like to check out this thread: Saws, Using, Collecting, Cleaning and Buying. Great bunch of saw nuts hang out there and we're only too happy to answer any question you might have.


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


The first hit is free !!!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


LOL.


----------



## gallarotti

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


@Brit, while building my saw vise, inheriting some ideas from your design and adapting it to the shape of my bench vise and to the height of my bench, I was taking same measurements of my saws and soon realized that all my Pax panel saws have the teeth the sit on top of an arc, instead of being in a straight line.
How should I adapt your sharpening steps to this? am I supposed to follow the arc while joining the teeth? Am I supposed to use a perpendicular to the tangent of this arc as a reference for the rake angle?
Thanks


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers*
> 
> Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.
> 
> I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the first channel done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sawed out the waste…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and trimmed it to length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and smoothed all the external surfaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
> is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.
> 
> I'll get on and make the saw vise now.


Francesco - The arc in the toothline is called 'crowning' or 'breasting'. I have a couple of Disston D8s that have that feature. Some people swear that it makes a difference. Personally, I don't see any difference in the speed or ease of cut. However to answer your question, the only time crowning makes a difference to filing a saw is when you joint the teeth. Obviously you need to follow the existing arc rather than filing them into a straight line. The first time I sharpened one of these saws, I laid it on a piece of MDF and traced around the teeth so I had a reference to fall back on if I messed up, but it really isn't difficult to maintain the arc.

When you put it in your saw vise you file as if the arc wasn't there, so maintain the same angle all the way along the tooth line when shaping and sharpening the teeth. Hope that helps.


----------



## Brit

*Making a Saw Vise*

When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.










Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.

Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:

It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.

This is what I came up with in Sketchup:





































I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.

So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.










Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.










Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.










I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…










…then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.










P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.










I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.

When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.



















I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.










I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.










This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.










Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…










…scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.

*Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.










Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).










So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.










I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.










Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.










After de-burring it, I had my hinge.










Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.










After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…










…I glued and screwed them to each jaw.










While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.










While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.










Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.










Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.










To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.










With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.

With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.










I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.










I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!










When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker. 

Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?










I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.










A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.

I drew out the shape on the wood.










Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.










Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…










…and rounded the end with my rasp and file.










Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.










I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.

8" Dovetail Saw









14" Tenon Saw









26" Hand Saw









Some more random shots.



























Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.

Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?

<<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>

Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.










Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.










Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.

TTFN,

Andy


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Very nice Andy. Sweet 607 too. I look forward to you building your bench. However, you seem to be pretty accomplished on your Workmate. You kind of remind me of commercials they have for our armed forces here. They do more before 9 am than we do all day. You do more with your Workmate than I do with anything! Great job.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


OH my! What a nice build, Andy!!! Looks quite functional and beautiful as expected from the master. 

Love how your vise fits in the old workmate, mate…


----------



## hhhopks

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Absolute amazing.
It is definitely worth copying.
Your work is always among the best of the best.

Thanks.


----------



## llwynog

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Great build Andy! I have an old handsaw that I need to rehab so I am watching this with interest.
I see that we share the same plastic bag holding technique on the workmate.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Thanks guys.

*Shane* - I'm looking forward to making a real bench too.

*Terry* - One of the things I didn't measure for is whether is would fit between the jaws of the Workmate. I was relieved to see that it did. 

*hhhopks* - Feel free to copy anything I post.

*llwynog* - The simplest ideas are often the best.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


holy smokes.


----------



## albachippie

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


This is great Andy. I have to admit, this project isn't one that would necessarily get very high on my to-do list, but, I find your style of writing makes for compelling reading! The tips along the way are great, especially the collecting of the shavings as you go! We've all wished we'd done that at some point!

Keep posting,

Cheers,

Garry


----------



## jjw5858

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Looks really great Brit. I am also learning to sharpen saws so this is a real inspiration. Will try to blog some more auction finds…haaa. I had more luck again today. We are very lucky to have Paul Sellers on LJS, I will be posting the diamond stone setup I aquired as well…never saw such thin shavings…lol.

Take care and look forward to more!

Cheers,

Joe


----------



## hhhopks

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


I have followed many of your blogs since I have joined. It is good to hear you have a workbench coming up. I am sure it will be another classic and look forward for your post.

One thing that I am intrigued is how you managed to work on your projects with that that B&D workmate. It is kind of beat up now. Surely, you have take that workmate to no workmate had ever been before. The lesson that I have learned from you is that good tools will make the job easier but the person behind the tool is the most important ingredient.

Thanks again.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


That workmate is dedicated to a museum in Andy's will.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


*Don* - I'm so glad it works well. I've read that sometimes the frame type saw vises don't apply pressure equally along the whole length of the jaws. This design does. I was going to rebate the top edge of the jaws and stick some rubber on, but I'll wait to see how it performs when I start filing. If it isn't necessary, I won't bother.

*Garry* - Thanks. It's those little tips that we all pick up from each other that is one of the great things about LJs.

*Joe* - I look forward to seeing your diamond stone set up. I think that is the way I'll end up going too. I'll get some more use out of my 1000/8000 combination waterstone first though. 

*hhhopks* - My workmate has become the stuff of legends since I started blogging on LJs.  Regarding tools, I think a badly designed or made tool will always produce poor results and will only serve to frustrate the user. Well designed and properly made tools will inspire you and create the space in which you can grow as a woodworker as you learn the nuances of each tool. Good tools enable you to see, listen to and feel what you are doing and provide important feedback to your senses. Good tools don't have to be expensive though.


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Well done Andy. I'm sure this saw vice will give you great service for many years to come. 
It does seem that your workmate will always be more famous. Lol

Cheers
John


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Andy I am bad ADD, so let get this out of the way. First how did you get my grandfathers drill and second what did that poor clothes pin do to you? You broke it attached it to a pencil? 
Now on the important stuff. WOW mad that is sure one great jig. And all that fine work on a simple bench and outside to boot. Sunlight is the best light there is. You sir have again completed a great and useful project. You have thoroughly blogged about its construction.
Nice.
The clothes pin will be stuck in my head the rest of the night. Thanks.
Good work.


----------



## NormG

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


What a great opportunity you were able to take advantage of and bring something back with you. Also great saw vice and thanks for sharing the process you used


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


*Dave* - Have no fear, the other arm of the clothes peg snapped off, so I just re-purposed it. No clothes pegs were harmed in the making of my pencil clip. I can't remember where I first saw the idea. I know Mads blogged about it way back, but I'd seen it before that somewhere or other.

*NormG* - Yes it was great to attend one of Paul's classes. He had a few college lecturers who wanted to learn saw sharpening and he opened the class to LJ members to make up the numbers free of charge.


----------



## Tootles

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


That's a great blog Brit. Really step-by-step so that any one of us can follow it. I'm glad you explained about the file holder, I couldn't work out what it was for when I first saw thw sketch.

Also, nice tip about the P80 around a tube of sealant, I have a use for that within the next few days.

Thanks


----------



## AnthonyReed

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Thank ya sir!


----------



## JR45

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Excellent tutorial on the making of a saw vice. I also have a B&D and still use it when my heavy wooden bench doesn't suit. Are specialised files needed? Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere.
Jim


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


*Tootles & Tony* - Thanks guys.

*JR45* - Yes saw files are either 4", 5", 6" or 7" in length and are not the same as a normal triangular file. They have rounded corners which give the gullets at the bottom of the teeth their shape. They taper slightly in the last inch towards the point. They come as either Regular taper, Slim taper, Extra Slim taper (sometimes the 'Extra' is denoted by an 'X') and Double Extra Slim taper (sometimes 'Double extra' ishown as 'XX'). At least 1/2 of the file's face should protrude above the tip of the teeth so that after wearing out one edge, you can rotate the file and still have fresh teeth on both faces of the file.

You pick the file according to how many teeth per inch the saw has. Here's a handy reference table.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Hi Andy, 
That is one fine saw wise.
Exelent ideas, fine thoughts and great build.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Thanks *Mads* - You haven't found that missing Star Knob have you?


----------



## jjw5858

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Andy, wonderful chart here with the files sizes…exactly what I was just thinking of looking for, great stuff!
Your old backyard workmate bench is great, It's gotta lotta soul…haaa I love it.

Thanks for sharing with us the file sizes!

Cheers

Joe


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Nice build Andy, Now one else could have made MDF look as elegant as you have!


----------



## RGtools

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


The file holder was a nice touch. I think that might be the fanciest saw vise I have ever seen. Thanks for sharing, it's fun to see how you work…and all the work being completed on a Workmate. Keep it up….which of course you will.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Thanks *Mauricio* - I can't stand MDF really, but I had to use it somewhere and since this is only a jig I suppose it will do.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


*Ryan* - Thanks. I like using nice tools and jigs are no different really. I figure I might have 20 years woodworking left in me if I'm lucky, so I built it to last.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Only 20!? Common Andy, a little more optimism please!


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


No sign of it…
Smiles.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


I'm going to have one last good look for it tomorrow. They're cheap, so If I can't find it, I'll just order another one. Actually, I'll probably order more than one to make the postage worth it. Then again, maybe I'll see if there are any other tools I need at the same time.


----------



## SamuelP

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Great inspiration once again. If you ever get rid of your workmate, just let me know.


----------



## phtaylor36

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Andy, this is brilliant! And that square you have…I still daydream of it…

Bust out the tap and die set and make another knob out of wood…


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


*Sam* - Thanks. You've got first refusal on the Workmate. 

*Philip* - Cheers. I did think about making the knobs myself, but I reminded myself that it was just a jig. Those ABS knobs are so cheap, it was a no-brainer really.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


I've just added a little bit to the end of the blog as I made a quick mod. before applying the finish.


----------



## planepassion

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Andy, from my limited sharpening experience, I think you nailed all the relevant criteria. Sturdy, check. The use of particle board, I'm thinking, will absorb some of the vibrations of filing to give you a stable platform.

Able to sharpen the entire saw without moving it in the jaws, huge check.

Being able to rotate the vise without removing the saw (when you build your new bench)...and for now, being able to sharpen from both sides of your workmate, also a big check.

Being able to clamp the saw without removing the handle, check.

By designing from these criteria you ensured the success of your project. I'm sure this took you a wee bit of time to design and build. But I think you'll find it was more than worth it when you start sharpening your nest of saws. THE biggest pain for me is moving the saw because my smaller, shop-made saw vise's jaws are too short to accommodate all the teeth. That even includes my 12" backsaws.

I find sharpening to be very taxing on my attention. You may find it helpful to "pace" yourself, meaning, that rather than dedicating a day (or with your next several days) to sharpening a bunch of them, put the sharpening of one saw on your project list for a day.

I am looking forward to seeing the saw till you create with the aid of your carefully assembled nest of saws buddy!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Thanks for the advice Brad. It's very timely as I'm going to have a go at the little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon. I have to remove all the teeth on this one and file new teeth and I've made myself a little 15 TPI template. I'm going to take it slow and see how I go. I'm excited though, because the whole blog has been leading to this moment and I'll either end up with a great cutting saw or the fanciest card scraper you've ever seen. Watch this space!!!


----------



## stefang

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


*Repairing carriage bolt holes in MDF*
Hi Andy. I noticed you used carriage bolts. I did the same with an MDF jig and after using it awhile the carriage bold wouldn't hold any longer. I wanted to keep the MDF. To repair it I cut out a little oar wooden square then used it as a pattern to mark a little box around the ruined hole on the MDF. Then using the marks as a guide, the MDF was chiseled down to about half the thickness and the oak square was glued into the hole. I then drilled a new hold through the oak and squared it up for the carriage bolt. This was easy to do and it has worked really well. Just in case you need it in the future.


----------



## DHS

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


I just purchased a couple of old Disstons and I plan to shamelessly copy your design and build my saw vise this weekend. Thank you for the detailed description. If I accidentally gain an extra star knob while putting the vise together I'll send it to you.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


*Stefang* - Good thinking. I did make the square part of the shank quite a tight fit in the MDF and I think it will hold pretty well since there is no movement and therefore no wear.

*DHS* - Thanks for the offer, but I bought another 3 of them in the end. They are so cheap, it wasn't worth wasting time looking for it. So I now have 4 on the vise and 2 spare. Good luck with your build, just shout if you have any questions.


----------



## DHS

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


I just finished my copy of your saw vise (here). I love it. Thanks for posting this project.


----------



## DaddyZ

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Very Cool !!!


----------



## steliart

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


excellent post
thx


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


You're welcome Steliart.


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


A year and a half later Andy, and ill be embarking on my own saw vice this week. Hopefully ill get around to making a mill file holder too. Ive got all the gear in route to me for my journey into the foray of handsaw sharpening. Thanks again for all your support and tutorials.

For anyone else out there starting from scratch, im out around $150 for all the gear to get started in sharpening a dozen, or so, saws.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Good for you Stef. A dozen saws eh? By the time you get through that lot, you'll be motoring.


----------



## Jimendo

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Hello Andy I must say that your video skills are amazing!!! I own a number of instructional videos from all the usual suspects, Yours is as good as they come!!! (And you did it by yourself, Amazing) thanks for the hard work and sharing so selflessly…. Since you have done such great work and I see no sense in re-inventing the wheel did I miss where you published the dimensions for your saw vise? I happen to have a workmate and it looks like a pretty good match. Not to mention I can use it on my bench as well…. Thanks again - Jim


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Jim - Thanks for the compliment on the video. If I remember correctly I don't think I really worked to dimensions. I drew it in Sketchup and I knew I wanted it to hold a 26" saw without having to reposition it during sharpening so I made the jaws 28" long. I ended up shortening the height of the vise (distance from the piano hinge at the bottom to the top of the jaws) because I initially made it too high. You want to position the bench rests so that when you're filing, your forearm is more or less horizontal and your arm can comfortably pivot from the shoulder.

If I get a chance at the weekend when I get home, I'll jot down the basic dimensions of the vise and post them for you.


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Jim - ill pinch hit fir Andy here while hes on the road. My vice turned out to be 16" high x 26" wide. Id be more than happy to take any more dimensions anytime tonight for ya.


----------



## Jimendo

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Stef thanks for the offer of help… I am new hear and not up to speed on how everything works but it appears that I can't send you a message of thanks until I have 5 posts. That could happen until then Thanks

BTW how has your sharpening been going?


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


No sweat. Sharpenings going well. Im currently 3 rip saws deep and tempted to start on a crosscut. Ive got a Disston 12 that needs some lovin. Its another sick addiction in the making


----------



## JDavid

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Brit….

Is it possible to get the sketchup file for this saw vise or perhaps the its actual dimensions?

Thanks much…

David Katz
White Lake, MI USA


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Hi David,

Apologies it has taken me so long to get back to you. Work is manic at the moment and I haven't had much time for LJs. I have managed to find the Sketchup file so if you want to send me a message with your email address I'll send it on to you. Just remember I shortened the height of it, as mentioned in the blog post, used four star knobs instead of three and positioned the bench rests higher than they appear in the Sketchup drawing.


----------



## JDavid

Brit said:


> *Making a Saw Vise*
> 
> When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.
> 
> Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
> 
> It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
> The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
> It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
> It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
> The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
> It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
> It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
> Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.
> 
> This is what I came up with in Sketchup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.
> 
> So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.
> 
> When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.
> 
> *Note:* If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After de-burring it, I had my hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …I glued and screwed them to each jaw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.
> 
> With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker.
> 
> Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.
> 
> I drew out the shape on the wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and rounded the end with my rasp and file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.
> 
> 8" Dovetail Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14" Tenon Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26" Hand Saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more random shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.
> 
> Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?
> 
> <<<*EDIT: 21/03/2012*>>>
> 
> Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.
> 
> TTFN,
> 
> Andy


Since I haven't yet posted anything here I cannot send messages, but my email address is [email protected] I would be grateful if you could send me the sketchup file for this beautiful saw vise.

Thanks…

- David


----------



## Brit

*Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*

You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?










I chose it for two reasons:


For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.

Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.










I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.

Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.










The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.










Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:

"It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."

Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.



















Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.










I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.



















It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.

"Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."










When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.










Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.

Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.










I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.

You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.










So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.










After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.










Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.










So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.



















And this is where it all started.










To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.

If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.

Thanks for watching!

P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


----------



## bandit571

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Good show, sir, GOOD SHOW! I tried my hand at this tonight. It will be awhile before I get this good though.


----------



## jjw5858

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Wow… your work is looking really great Andy! I knew you were the man for the sharpening job! Great stuff! I will surely reference this as my journey in saws and sharpening continues!

Thanks for sharing and all the best,

Joe


----------



## BrandonW

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Wow. Just. Wow.

Oh, and when can I send you my saws for sharpening, Andy?


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Very interesting post Andy. This series has been great. All have been great reading. You should be proud of your skills and your saws. Very well done sir. Look forward to more.


----------



## phtaylor36

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Holy cow…what a labor of love. I'm very impressed. Well done!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


*Bandit* - Thank you. Keep at it and you'll get there. I thoroughly recommend Joes's advice to slow down. Don't be concerned about how long it takes you. Concentrate on quality and the speed will come with practice.

*Joe* - What a rollercoaster ride of doubt and self-belief I went on with this saw. Thanks again for reminding me to take a chill pill and slow down.

*Brandon* - When I've done my own. 

*Shane & Philip* - Thank you. I'm glad you like what you see and read. It makes it all worthwhile.


----------



## llwynog

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Andy, this is definitely on of my favourite post ! I admire the guts you exhibited in jointing off completely the old teeth and define your own. I have a large handsaw that I am planning to learn sharpening on but I think that I will keep the safety of existing teeth to guide me at first.

Thanks a lot for this most excellent post (also loved all the other ones in the series)


----------



## racerglen

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Done it again Andy !
I hate to repeat but WOW !


----------



## JR45

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Andy
A Masterclass! What a beautiful end product you have created.
Jim


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


*llwynog* - It did take some big ones to file all the teeth off of the first saw I've sharpened, but once I'd drawn the template, I couldn't see any reason why it wouldn't work so I just went for it.

*Glen* - I had to remember to breathe. 

*Jim* - Thanks. I don't know about a masterclass, but it cuts fine and that's the important thing.


----------



## RGtools

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


The shot with the kerfs really says it all Andy. Great post as usual. I will have to try it out at some point.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Andy, you continue to raise the bar for all of us! What a nicely written blog…and thanks for the close up photos of your sharpening process. That paper template is a great idea…oh my…15 ppi for your first attempt at sharpening?! Just goes to show what a master you are. 

That is a gem of a saw!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Thanks *Ryan*. If you're going to try it, make sure you get a good night's sleep first.  Seriously though, once you've done it you know what to expect, but the first time it's just one big unknown.


----------



## SASmith

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Great show and tell.
Thanks for sharing.


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Andy that was a fun and interesting journey you took me on. I did enjoy it a lot. The impressive part was your eyes are like mine and it did not stop you. 
Now you are going to need to build a saw till to fit your wonderful set of saws.
Andy you sir are an artisan.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


*Dave* - A saw till is on the cards. Here's a couple of designs I came up with. I haven't finally decided how it will look yet, but I won't stray too far from what you see here.

*Version 1*









*Version 2*


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


I am torn I don't know witch on I like better.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


In reality Dave, I think I'll build the Version 2, but put a drawer or two above the pegs to house my sharpening files, sets, screwdrivers etc. However, their first home is probably going to be nothing more than a plank of wood with some kerfs cut into it as I've promised my wife I'll make her a load of silly outdoor games for people to play at the street party she's organizing for Queen Elisabeth ll's Golden Jubilee in June and I have to get cracking on those very soon.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


*Terry & SASmith* - Sorry guys, I forgot to thank you for your comments. Actually Terry this saw is 15 Teeth Per Inch which equates to 16 Points Per Inch. Either way, they're pretty small teeth. It will be fun trying to sharpen my Gramercy dovetail saw (18TPI) when the time comes.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


*Andy*, thanks for correcting me…I just learned yesterday that (tpi + 1 = ppi) ...still been reading lots on how to sharpen these saws…The more I read, the more intimidated I become! But, it's such an important skill, I HAVE to learn what I can, then start practicing…hope my first attempt comes out 1/10 as nice as yours! 

Do you have any plans to use a jig for filing rake? or do you think all yours will be 0 degree rake?


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Terry - When you say a jig for rake angles, I presume you mean something like this.










As you can see, I tried it. It worked Ok, but for 0 rake it was easier to just sight down the edge of the file to keep it vertical. I will be filing some of my saws with rake angles other than 0, but I will probably keep the face of the file vertical just put wedges under the bench rests on my vise to tilt the vise. Using this method means that the face of your file can always be vertical and the vise is clamped at the required rake angle rather than it being something else that you have to ensure you're maintaining as you file the teeth. Hope that makes sense. I'll do a couple of Sketchup drawing to explain it better.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Andy, yes, a jig similar to what you've shown. I ran across this yesterday:









on this website:" http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/sawjig/thejig.html#The%20Jig":http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/sawjig/thejig.html#The%20Jig

it caught my eye since I plan to sharpen a few crosscut saws. But, you know I'll continue to watch YOU and try your methods first since you explain everything so well.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Yeah I've read most of what Brent Beach has to say and whilst he is passionate about saws and does a great job, I don't think I could see myself using something like that. I do have some ideas of my own though which will become clear in future posts.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Andy, great job. Thats is a very handsome saw. As usual I learn something new everytime I read your blogs. I like the google sketchup template. You'll have to show us how to do that one day.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Thanks Mauricio.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Wow well done my friend you really did a great number on the sweet little saw I am lucky I have saws in a bit better shape so i don't have to do that on my dovetail saws all three are in good shape i will have to convert one from cross cut to rip the other two are new and while i was a little disappointed in the sharpening job from LN the teeth look good they just cut like they are dull kind of odd I am taking them to the old man at a1 saw sharpening here in town to see what he thinks if they need to be re done ill send them to Matt as I trust him the most I hate to think two brand new saws have a problem but they just seem to cut poorly and its a shame because they are beautiful and the teeth look good so i am confused

Your saw looks wonderful I wish i was as good at understanding the geometry as you are


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Andy are the dill designs done in sketch up If so I got to know how to do some of that work my friend is really good at it but i have not seen anyone do a set of saws in a drawing before will you be making a matching till for your panel saws


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Yes the saw tills are done in Sketchup. There is a Sketchup online community and when you complete a drawing, you can upload it to Google's 3D Warehouse. There are 1000s of drawings of all kinds of things in the warehouse. Then, when you do a drawing in Sketchup, you can go to the 3D Warehouse and import an item to use in your drawing such as a drawer knob, a hinge, some molding, or whatever else you need to help you. It saves you having to draw everything from scratch all the time. For the saw tills, I downloaded the cornice molding around the top of the cabinet, the saws and the tongue and groove back and the drawer knob. This enabled me to complete the drawings in about an hour. It is all about sharing and re-use.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


that's really cool Andy I have to learn how to do some of that my friend Dave Damsen says this is the way to work out every fabrication isue before you even waste a piece of wood and he is currently remodeling the 21st century workbench i am building into a smaller one and he will be using con grade lumber for his bench because he don't want to go with high dollar wood so he was able to changer the dimensions to show he was using con grade wood as it is pre dimensioned i was amazed I feel like i am in the stone age and then you but out the saw till and i was even more amazed I love your design but i need my saw till to hold panel saws too or i need to make two different ones I was also thinking of putting lockable doors on the till so if they break in they really have to work to get my stuff


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Well done Andy, a fine job with excellent results. I can imagine the stress and concentration that went on. You forgot to add the 'breath' part to the technique. lol
I can imagine what the neighbours must think when they see you bent over that workmate!

Keep up the good work.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


*Dude* - I will have a separate till for rip, half-rip, hand and panel saws. I want my backsaws near my workbench (once I've built one ) and my larger saws near my saw bench.

*John* - Thanks. You know what they say, "Build high fences, keep good neighbours." Actually I have great neighbours and they're well aware of my woodworking problem.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Andy i was re reading this when i figured out you had a diagram gluesd to the plate of the saw for fileing where did you get that done and I wonder if i can get one for a panel saw it would make fileing all new teeth on my panel saw les dreadful I wonder if i can do it or if its too much work for an old timer like me


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Andy I have also decided to welcome you to the insomniacs club


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


*Dude* - I drew the template in Sketchup, but you could do it in any drawing package where you can accurately draw angles. You have to make sure your printer is set to print it out full scale. It worked great for establishing the new teeth and ensuring I had 15 teeth per inch, then after removing the template, I just refined any of the teeth that needed touching up.

Oh and 6 hours a night is all I need.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


you shure get up early Andy and I sure see you up late are you really getting your 6 hours  thanks for the tips


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


You gotta take the average Dude


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Thanks for all the help Andy I may have to ask for some help with sketch up i want to joint a panel saw and re teeth it to a crosscut saw this could be tough inho I may need your help making the template and like that I also need to ask you and Matt some questions about making the teeth


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Andy!!!
That is more than wonderful to see you work.
More than wonderful to read your text, to read your passion for what you do.
Thank you for this really informative blog.
Best thoughts buddy,
Mads


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


*Dude* - Whilst I'm happy to help, please don't forget that to date I have sharpened *one* saw. That hardly puts me in the expert bracket. Matt is the man and you can take what he says to the bank. With saws that have larger teeth, I probably wouldn't use a template like I did on this dovetail saw. I only used it here because the teeth are so small. See what Matt recommends when you meet him and if he thinks a template is a good idea, I'll make you one.

Thanks *Mads*. Since we've both been saying for so long that we were going to learn how to sharpen saws, it was nice to finally pluck up the courage, pick up a file and have a go.


----------



## planepassion

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Andy, excellent post. I like that you pushed yourself beyond your limits…honestly, filing the teeth down, then cutting new ones. That's a bungee jump I'm not ready to make brother. I really like you shareing your troubleshooting. "It was catching on one place…" and describing your solutions. It amazes me how ONE little saw tooth can be such a culprit. I've found that it's those litte details that can burn up many of my hours trying to figure out.

I know you spent a lot of time bringing your restored dovetail saw to the point where you'll reach for it (designing and building a saw vise, retoothing, sharpening…) but what a thrill it will be to use it.

Lastly, after a complete disaster-and I mean saw-it-up-into-its-component-parts-to reuse disaster-trying to build a new saw vise based on the .pdf design I emailed you, I'm going to add your design to my project list.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Thanks Brad. I think I probably had some beginner's luck. We'll see how I fare on the next one. 

Sorry to hear about your disaster. Chalk it up to experience.


----------



## need2boat

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Great job Andy.

Most people start with the larger saws and work back to dovetails but not for You! well done as always.

Joe


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Cheers Joe. Hopefully the first of many. Have you ever used a template like I did to shape teeth, or have you just done it with the Foley?


----------



## jjw5858

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Andy, I love both saw till designs…..but for me…ahhhh that 2nd one….it has the curves…......go for it! Great work and post. Enjoy!


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Andy do you mind sending me a copy of the files for you saw tills I think i might copy most of the plan and add it to my plans what i need is a matching panel saw till to go with it I think i can get down to a dozen saws roflmao


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


I've sent you the drawings Lance.


----------



## planepassion

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Andy, you mentioned in a recent post that you were going to have a separate till for your backsaws so you could keep them near your workbench. That's where I put my "production" saw till for the backsaws and I love it. It is SO convenient to simply reach for saw that way. My "prototype" saw till, the one I made to figure out the dimensions, is located closer to the garage side door and saw bench. I like to saw outside when the big boys are needed so locating them separately from the backsaws has worked out really well.

What kind of wood are you going to use for your till?


----------



## bandit571

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Got the High tech Back Porch Saw vise up and running today:









Just a pair of 2×3s pine scraps, some clamps, and a 2×4 porch railing.









That's not a "jig", that's a "Dental Chair' Saw in the vise is called The rancher.









As for some "kerf" shots









Cheap entertainment….


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


*Brad* - Yeah since I am predominantly a hand tool woodworker, I definitely want a separate till for my backsaws next to my workbench. The bigger saws will be in their own till near the saw bench.

Since I've got to make a load of silly outdoor games for our street party before I can make the saw till, I will initially just cut some kerfs in a shelve and suspend the saws vertically under the cheeks. As to what wood I'll eventually use for the proper till, I am undecided at present. Maple and walnut are nice as it maple and cherry, but I also think it would look nice made from pine and painted with milk paint. Just use hardwood (cherry probably) for the horizontal shelf with the kerfs, the angled shelf that the handles rest on and the drawer front. What do you think?

*Bandit* - Whatever works right?


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Andy, you did not say *Painted* did you!!

Predominant cherry with maple highlight would be my choice. I like Walnut and cherry as well.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


LOL Don. To my eyes at least, Paint can look very nice with hardwood accents, if it is done well of course and it would allow me to make it cheaper. Don't forget the price of hardwood over here!










Paul Sellers tool cabinets are painted and I thought they looked quite nice when I was there. It kind of throws people's attention on the tools rather than the cabinet.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


*Note*: Those are not Paul's tills in the picture above.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


I agree Andy. I just have this phobia about painting. I will admit I've done my share and it always looks good, but I'm a wood guy. Even pine looks good with some type of clear finish. Take that first cabinet and just paint the drawer fronts (so reverse the finish) and it looks better to me.

As we say, "to each their own". I have every confidence that no matter what you make, it will be stunning. With your saws in it, who would be looking at the till anyhow.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Bandit, nice to know you could sharpen a saw anywhere if you had to. Very resourceful.

Don that knob looks so nice!

I like the paint too, it makes the tools the center of attention. And its kind of soothing to look at actually, makes it look less busy.


----------



## bandit571

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


tried it out on one of the backsaws, today. Filed this one "rip".









One "tip": do NOT put "Tap Magic" on the file, just gums things up, DAMHIKT.

Anyway, a look at the holder i use for these SMALL files









Just a cheep $1.21 backsaw, with a new handle


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Just read your blog once more and sit here with a big smile - thank you.
I love every bit of it.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## Mosquito

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


And because if you, Mads, I also read it again


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


;-)


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


I just read it again too. You've started something Mads. It seems ages ago that I did this now. Hope to get back to sharpening saws soon.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Ok the Marples saw arrived the pits are pretty superficial and i hope that most of them will sand out the saw is very heavy I dont know what kind of saw it was suposed to be when it was made . to me it looks like a large tennon saw I was hoping to make a sash saw. it may be too big for that tell me what you think brit


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Got a photo Lance? What is the tpi, depth of cut and length of the plate?


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


ill measure it tomorrow and let you know what i find


----------



## Duckster

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


I have a 10" backsaw that is very dull. I don't have the knowledge nor the eyesight to do that. Is there a good company that is good at sharpening them.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw*
> 
> You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied.  The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I chose it for two reasons:
> 
> 
> For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
> It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.
> 
> Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.
> 
> Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
> The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:
> 
> "It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."
> 
> Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.
> 
> "Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.
> 
> Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.
> 
> You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.
> 
> If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.
> 
> Thanks for watching!
> 
> P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.


Duckster - There are a number of companies in the US who will sharpen a saw for you. Here are a couple of them:

http://www.thesawwright.com/Services.html. Matt will charge you $50 to sharpen a 10" backsaw.
http://www.secondchancesawworks.com/resteration-and-sharpening-services. Joe will charge you $25 to sharpen a 10" backsaw.

There are also people on LJs who are based in the US and sharpen saws. You might like to contact Chrisstef or Summerfi


----------



## Brit

*More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*

I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.

From Vintagesaws.com:

Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
The How's of Setting Saws

From Wenzloffandsons.com:

On Choosing Saws

From Badaxetoolworks.com:

About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique

From Blackburntools.com:

Saw Tooth Geometry
Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles

From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:

Rake and Rip Saws

From Toolsforworkingwood.com:

Elements of Saw Tooth Design

I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:

You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:

tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)

Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.

It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:


Joint
Shape
Set
Joint
Sharpen

However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.

One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:

"I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth." 
"A little rake makes ripping easier." 
"Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."

Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.

On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:


Sharpness of the teeth
Degrees of fleam
Degrees of rake
Degrees of slope
No. of teeth per inch
The straightness of the toothline
Saw plate thickness
Amount of set per side
Hang angle of the handle
Spine weight
The balance of the saw
Handle comfort and fit
The cant of the saw plate (if present)
The angle you approach the cut
Your ability to start a saw
Your ability to cut to a line
The type of wood you're cutting

After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.

So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:


Make and length of saw
Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
Teeth Per Inch
Rake angle
Fleam angle
Slope angle
Plate thickness
Depth of cut at the toe

I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.










As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.

Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.

Happy sharpening!


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


another good blog Andy. I still have as many to sharpen as I did 2 months ago. I need some sharpening motivation. Its probably going to take a few rainy days. Thanks for all the information.

SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD
SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD
SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


*Don* - Glad you got my point if you pardon the pun. Actually I have a huge respect for the likes of Mike Wenzlof, Mark Harell and Matt Cianci, but the skeptic in me wonders whether adding a touch of rake, fleam or slope is more to compensate for people's inability to saw. Sometimes I think what is really needed is sawing practice and more sawing practice.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Sure and I agree, but must add it takes more than sharp teeth, it takes sharp teeth reasonably consistent. If not the saw walks. I know this how? I've got a very sharp saw, with a hook worse than my golf swing.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


LOL.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


I do know with your help, I'll get it straight (the saw, not my golf swing, I gave up on that a long time ago)


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Full disclosure: Since I sharpened my little dovetail saw, I went back and experimented with it a bit. First I added 5 degrees of fleam and made a lot of cuts in some pine, sapele and hard maple. I couldn't detect a difference to the 0 degrees I used originally. The back of the cut wasn't any cleaner and the surface finish on the wood seemed to be the same. Next I added 5 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. It was easier to start the cut, but it took more strokes to reach full depth. Since I wasn't having trouble starting the cut with the 0 degrees of rake and fleam that I originally filed, I ended up filing back to how I had it in the first place. IMO, the exercise was well worth the 1/16" of steel I wasted. You've got to try these things haven't you?


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


you just don't know until you try.


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Andy well detailed blog and the goto to link for the goto info. Thanks.


----------



## bandit571

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


I've been playing around with my full sized handsaws, lately. Takes a while, there are a lot of teeth in 26" of saw plate. The latest has 12 ppi, and took at least 1/2 an hour to file. WHEW! Looking forward to filing the two rip saws i have. Fewer teeth, since they are in the 5-6ppi range, BIG teeth. High-tech saw vise still works alright, though….


----------



## phtaylor36

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Andy, your series is fantastic and informative. Well done friend.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Always a pleasure to read your posts.

Thank you Andy.


----------



## llwynog

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Andy,
That is a great source for learning how to sharpen.
I love the fact that you did try to file your backsaw with different tooth geometries in order to see for real if it had such a big impact.
Thanks a lot.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


*Dave* - Thanks. Just trying to make it easier for beginners. There is a lot of confusing and contradictory information out there and really the best thing a beginner can do is pick up a file and have a go. I learnt more from actually filing a saw than I did spending hours reading all the articles.

*Bandit* - I know what you mean. It would have been easier to start with the bigger teeth on hand saws than the small teeth on my backsaws, but I like a challenge.

*Philip* - Glad you're enjoying the blog. I've certainly learnt a lot writing it.

*Tony* - The pleasure is all mine my friend.

*llwynog* - Different tooth geometries do make a difference, but all other things being equal, that difference can be small. I just don't think a beginner should get too hung up on it. I firmly believe that you could sharpen two different backsaws with the same tooth geometry and one might end up cutting better than the other. For instance, if you sharpened both sets of teeth with 0 degrees of rake, but one of the saws had an extra heavy brass back (two of mine do), you might have to compensate for the extra heavy back by adding 5 or 6 degrees of rake to help prevent the saw grabbing. You can't just look at tooth geometry in isolation without also considering the thickness of the plate, the tpi, the hang angle of the handle and the weight of the spine. IMO all these things must work in harmony and only by filing, trying and tweaking will you find what's right for a particular saw.

I can totally understand how people get consumed by saw filing though. Whenever you finish filing a saw you are always left wondering whether adding another degree of rake for example would make it even better.


----------



## need2boat

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Great post Andy,

Sharpening is something that just takes a lot of practice and I think that everyone has there own leans and pit falls. I've been actively chipping away at it for months and still have room to improve. I've leaned through the process that getting a saw back to it's glory, the shaping and sharpening is just one small piece. Things like proper ppi, rake, angle, and even set all play just as big a role and once you start messing around it's your can start to spin. ;-) as you said one can always start over.. . .

Did you do your chart in Excel or Word? I'd love to get a copy emailed. jfederici(at)limitedbrands.com

cheers

Joe


----------



## hhhopks

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Another great post.
I am guity of being too lazy to use the hand saw.

I got a few (well more then a few).
To get to know the tool better I would think think I need to skip the gym and just sawing. 
I may not have the time to mess with it for now, your chart will make an excellent reference.

Thanks.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


*Joe* - Thanks. As you know by now (because you've received it), the chart was done in MS Excel.

*HHHOPKS* - Using a sharp, well-tuned saw is a joy and yes it is good exercise, particularly ripping a long board. I hope you get time to try it.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Andy would you please add Matt Ciancis article to your list I think it is a valuable tool for saw buying and belongs on your list.

This is a very good set of things to remember. I will need to figure our which file to sharpen which saw that is kind of confusing to me still. I may get stuck on this for a while. I need to change a saw to be rip as it is a dovetail saw or should i have one of each a rip and a cross cut dovetail saw. because if i am dovetailing the side of a case like the one in your saw till Plan. Should I not use the cross cut dovetail saw on the long grain portion of the case?

Sometimes I think we have lost true craftsmanship in the whole world in favor of the industrial revolution. Dont get me wrong I love my power tools and use them every day but when i want to have some fun in the shop i play with my hand tools they are way more fun and i can relax I don't have to worry about cutting off my finger on a hand saw and I know I will never get hurt badly by a hand plane. I really want to be able to do a lot of my own saw work so on I read and I thank you for this resource.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


*Dude* - The links I included in this post are to do with sharpening rather than buying a secondhand saw, so although it's a great article I don't feel it belongs on this blog post. Please feel free to add a link to the article here in the comments though.

I'm off to the garden (my workshop) now to work on a project for the day.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Andy I just saw the link on choosing saws and thought you had that one so why not matts but i wont post it since it is off topic


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


*Dude* - Choosing Saws is about building a nest of saws based on their size and TPI. That's why I included it here, because it helps you decide what tpi you need on different size saws.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


that is cool I am sure it is good info it was a little hard to decipher for me but i will read it more carefully


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Britt I want to re do a saw I purchased 4 very nice d7s all with a full nib all with Lambs tongue and all with brass nuts a shields that put them over 100 years old. Unfortunately they are all 7 tpi I want to make one of them 10 tpi and I need to know what file and what angle and how to file fleem I want to get started pretty soon. I have decided to wait till they are all here as they all came from Ebay and I want to re do the one with the worst setup. Matt said the template is a great idea but that he just uses another saw with the tooth configuration he wants on the saw he said i would have to remove both plates and clamp them together like they were one and then file the teeth he makes it sound so simple I know it cant be that easy though


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


*Dude* - 6" Double Extra Slim Taper file. 20 degrees fleam, 15 degrees rake. These angles are probably best to start with when learning to file a crosscut saw.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Once again, thank you, Andy, for sharing your knowledge and placing all these links on one page…definately a page to bookmark for the students like myself.

Also, thanks for giving me an excuse to buy more saws…"Honey, I need that many saws so I can learn how differently each one works"...

LOL


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


You're welcome Terry and I'm sure your wife won't mind after you put all that fencing up for her goats.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


*Dude - 6" Double Extra Slim Taper file. 20 degrees fleam, 15 degrees rake. These angles are probably best to start with when learning to file a crosscut saw.

-Andy--"I like Vintage tools. It's what I do to forget about what I do when I need to forget about what I do. Saws, planes, chisels, hammers, it doesn't matter." - Don W
*

aNDY i AM CONFUSED ON THE FLEAM AND HOW TO CONTROL IT I WAS CLEAR ON RAKE THAT IS THE ANGLR =E OF THE FILE OFF AXIS BUT HOW TO DO FLEAM I DONT GET THAT AT ALL


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


*Dude* - Look at the Elements of Saw Tooth Design link above. You've got to read the articles I linked to, particularly Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer. I read them three times before they sunk in.  The information is all there including how to control the angles.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


I just dont get fleam I have read it a few times I will go through it again I am not stupid I should get it


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Ok. Imagine you are standing in front of a saw vise and a saw is mounted in the vise. If you are right-handed, the handle should be to the right-hand side.

Now imagine you have a saw file in your hand which is triangular in shape with rounded edges. Imagine you are resting the file in the gullet of one of the teeth and holding it horizontally and perpendicular to the side of the saw plate.

Are you with me so far? 

With regard to the hand holding the file handle:

If you rotate your wrist as if you were opening a door handle, that's RAKE.

If you move your hand horizontally towards the saw handle, that's FLEAM.

If you move your hand down towards the floor, that's SLOPE.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


This illustration from Tools for Working Wood might help.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Wow where did you get that Andy it is exactly what i needed


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


As I said Lance, it came from ToolsForWorkingWood.com.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


I have top quit skimming I am missing too many details sorry for being dumb


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Brit I am very excited to have spent some time on that website and i found a great kit to make your own saw I cant wait to do that I have some great applewood on the way and it will make a wonderful tote for the new saw http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com//Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=GT-DKIT.XX&Category_Code=CGT


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Matt finished the saws that were fixable and he said the craftsman saw had the teeth temperd by electricity and they are too hared to file that kinda sucks Not cool that they did that more post war junk. I should have a pic of the d7 in a bit i hope she looks good


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Hi Andy
Just to say I've enjoyed reading and catching up on this one, you have put a lot of thought and effort into it.
I'll bear it in mind for the future…...If all else fails I'll keep my bandsaw tuned up for everything else and in between. 

*Dude *here is a link to Matthew Workshop Heaven on YouTube explaining saw sharpening, I think he puta it across quite well?

Cheers,
John.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Thanks Johnny. You must be way behind if you're just catching up on this one.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Hi Andy,
Wonderful reading and as always in your wonderful tone.
(You should write a book of this subject, how to make a nest).
Since I have no workshop now, I will just dream.
I wonder why you will change a saw from 11 -12 tpi is this really worth the efford? Can one feel the difference? Is it just you my wonderful friend that likes the number better? Smiles.
Hope you are fine, here the sun is at us like a wonderful summer.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Hi Mads,
Like I said in my first post on this blog series, I'm not an expert on saws. There is a lot of confusion (at least in my head) about sharpening saws and the correct tpi to use for a particular task. I bought all of these saws to find out for myself what makes a saw good for a particular task. Once our jubilee celebrations are out of the way, I will be returning to finish off this blog series. I hope to show each saw cutting wood after I've sharpened them all and then report back on whether I think I got each one right in terms of rake, fleam, slope, tpi, etc.

The sun has been beating down here also for the last few days and it looks set to continue for some time. I only have one more project to do for the jubilee now and that is to turn a dining room carver chair into a gold throne. Hope to get that done at the weekend and then I've finished all the jobs I committed to do (ahead of time and within budget I might add).

Take care my friend.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Smiles Andy,
Have a wonderful jubilee.
Look forward to the blog series.
Remember to send my love to the queen, tell her I miss her a wee bit.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


hey Andy here are the photos of the saw the pitting is there as i feared but it is not that deep and i am hoping i can sand it out of play


















we were disusing the proper name and use for this back saw. I was hoping it would be a sash saw it is about 14 inches of blade with a 3 1/2 in depth of cut . I think it may be too large for a sash saw.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Andy, just re-reading this blog and it confirms what I've always thought about my favorite Brit since Churchill: You 'da Man!

Had a number of hand saws outside the shop when I was adding eaves to the building. And used them a number of times vs. plugging in and cutting with the Circ Saw. My dad thought I was nuts. Then he saw me pull off cuts through a 2×6 that split the line and were dead nuts square. Fast, too. Didn't scoff anymore after that.

Yeah, I got lucky. ;-)


----------



## lysdexic

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Smitty,

You know your dad has told all his friends about your facile use of vintage tools. I bet he is proud.

Andy,

You put in a lot of time and effort into your posts. They/you make me a better woodworker and I appreciate it.


----------



## bandit571

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Maybe I need a better file for this "new" saw









Not sure what size it takes, though









About two dollars, plus tax. No markings about who made it, just an owner's mark of huwy on the right hand side. Might have to modify the Back Porch Saw Vise…..


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


*Lance* - What make is that backsaw? It has a nice tote and spine so even if you have to make a new plate for it, I'd say it was worth restoring. I have an old backsaw c.1849 that I didn't include it in this blog series because the plate was so far gone. Not only was it heavily rusted and pitted, but when I removed the handle, the plate was cracked between two of bolt holes which means it flexes too much. I was just going to hang it up as wall art, but due to a couple of lucky finds, I'm now going to replace the plate on it.

What were the lucky finds? Well firstly, as I was scouring ebay one day, someone was selling an offcut of steel suitable for making at least four tenon saws, so I grabbed it. Secondly, due to having to source and pick up a piece of galvanized steel for one of my jubilee projects, I now know of a great little steel fabricating company in my area who can guillotine the saw plate for me. Funny how things work out isn't it?

*Smitty & Scott* - Thanks for the compliments guys. For the past week, I've been itching to get on with sharpening the rest of my backsaws, but it hasn't stopped raining. It is like freakin' autumn here at present. Whatever happened to 'flaming June'? Anyhow, I can't wait any longer, so I've just dragged my Workmate into the kitchen and I'm going to be sharpening the Cowell & Chapman today.

*Bandit* - "Might have to modify the Back Porch Saw Vise….." That's funny, but they say necessity is the mother of invention.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


it is a wm Marples saw it is truly lovely and i think i will be able to sand out most of the pits the plate is thick and I cant afford to send it out for Matt to rework so ill be trying this one myself I dont know how the date the Marples brand of saws but this one looks pretty old. The Saw has a great feel to it and i will be keeping it forever so if i have to have a new Plate made i will be sad but I will do what ever it takes to make the saw work well.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


I've never seen a 14" Marples. It is a nice saw. Goog luck with the restoration.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


i still would like to know what to call this saw is it a large tennon saw a sash saw or something else like a c arcus saw


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Personally I'd call it a large tenon saw, since that is probably what you'll be using it to cut.

By the way Lance, when you come to sand both sides of the saw plate, only give the part of the saw plate that is hidden inside the handle a very light sanding, otherwise you might end up with a loose fit.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


good idea Andy I dont want to ruin the saw How to remove the back plate and can i make my own split screw screw driver from a normal one ? I think I will start on this Project this week and I want it to be a really nice saw it will be my large tonnon saw I have a smaller saw i AM GOING TO CALL MY SASH SAW IT IS A sIMMONDS ANOTHER GREAT SAW WITH A WONDERFUL FEEL AND A GREAT PLATE I hate this Keyboard and i am forced to u8se it right now my internet is off cause i am broke so i am on my cell phone and my laptop wheich i need to be sending back to Asus because it wont work on the battery since they fixed it . I need to sell some Planes and I need to get some cash flow out of the shop or my wife will end my dream of woodworking full time


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


ok i got the saw apart and started sanding the plate with 60 grit paper it seems to barley touch it it looks like i am polishing it not milling it down on one side the pitting is worse I am not shure if this plate can be saved or not and i cant pay someone 150 to put a new plate on it so i am going to have to ask for some help with this saw I guess it wont hold any value if replated but i dont really care i want a saw that wilol do the work i want it to the threads on the nuts are wongo and will need to be chased to allow it to tighten corectly this is not that hard of a fix i know the machine shop can do it for 20 bucks so no biggie there i cant but the tap for that much. I dont know if this plate is salvageable or not I really love this saw it has a great feel and i want it to be a user what shoul i do guys


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


If I am to sand this plate for a few days i may be able to get through it is there some special paper that will cut the steel faster


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


Lance as far as sanding goes, I just use whatever sandpaper I have to hand. The plate will take quite a bit of sanding. You should keep going with the 60 grit until you have removed as much of the pitting as you think you can. I find that I can use the paper for about 50 strokes before it not longer feels like it is cutting. You will get through a lot of sandpaper, but there is no need to throw it away. I just bash it on the endge of my bench and then save it to use on wood when the need arises. The good thing is though, that once you've finished with the 60 grit, working up through the finer grits is much faster.

As far as converting a normal screwdriver to a split-nut driver is concerned, yes of course you can do that. I picked up an old turnscrew and converted that. Good steel and very cool looking.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


i have decided use a circular sander a lot more aggressive than the dual action sander i am using right now i could also use the blast cabinet and a coarse medium I want this saw to be a user and i am into it pretty far already I will keep you posted


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


spent 3 hours on one side of the plate I guess I am about half way to a pit free saw plate . I got an air powered sander from Harbor freight for 20 bucks and 3 grades of paper I started with 24 grit it actually removes some metal how refreshing the 60 grit was like polishing the discolored plate. I was very happy when i started i sanded one small area till all the pits were gone then kept moving toward the toe I have a screw through a handle hole and screwed into my old bench. Abusing the old gal. and a clamp on the toe holding it flat I can run for about 5 minutes and then let the little compressor catch up. I did this for 3 hours and over half the plate is looking good I started on the bad side of the saw. I will do the other side too and hop it goes well. I will then go to the 40 grit to smooth it out then the 60 grit and thin more 60 grit with a different sander then I will go through the grits till i can say I am done how smooth should I take it Andy? I think I have 320 for the d a sander. I am hoping the plate is a user the brass back is a wonderful weighted thing I have no other saw that comes close to this. I have a disston and a simmonds and dont think they compare to my Marples and sons.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws*
> 
> I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.
> 
> From Vintagesaws.com:
> 
> Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
> The How's of Setting Saws
> 
> From Wenzloffandsons.com:
> 
> On Choosing Saws
> 
> From Badaxetoolworks.com:
> 
> About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique
> 
> From Blackburntools.com:
> 
> Saw Tooth Geometry
> Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles
> 
> From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:
> 
> Rake and Rip Saws
> 
> From Toolsforworkingwood.com:
> 
> Elements of Saw Tooth Design
> 
> I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:
> 
> You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:
> 
> tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)
> 
> Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.
> 
> It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:
> 
> 
> Joint
> Shape
> Set
> Joint
> Sharpen
> 
> However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.
> 
> One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
> "A little rake makes ripping easier."
> "Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."
> 
> Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.
> 
> On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:
> 
> 
> Sharpness of the teeth
> Degrees of fleam
> Degrees of rake
> Degrees of slope
> No. of teeth per inch
> The straightness of the toothline
> Saw plate thickness
> Amount of set per side
> Hang angle of the handle
> Spine weight
> The balance of the saw
> Handle comfort and fit
> The cant of the saw plate (if present)
> The angle you approach the cut
> Your ability to start a saw
> Your ability to cut to a line
> The type of wood you're cutting
> 
> After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.
> 
> So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:
> 
> 
> Make and length of saw
> Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
> Teeth Per Inch
> Rake angle
> Fleam angle
> Slope angle
> Plate thickness
> Depth of cut at the toe
> 
> I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.
> 
> Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.
> 
> Happy sharpening!


*Lance* - I would take it up to 600 grit personally. The first few saws I did, I went higher and I don't think it looks as good as stopping at 600. When you have a shiny brass back, a really shiny plate can look too much and it just accentuates finger marks and scratches anyway. After you've dry sanded to 600 grit, add a few drops of 3-IN-ONE oil to the plate and use a fresh piece of 600 grit to hand sand the plate using full length strokes parallel to the back of the saw. This stage doesn't take long and the oil will tone down the amount of shine and even out the scratch pattern.

Also, have a read of parts 12 and 13 of this blog series. It will give a you a bit of added motivation.


----------



## Brit

*You win some, you lose some*

So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?










This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.










Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.

With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.










When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.

So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.










At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.

I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.

Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.










Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.










I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.










Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)










The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.

The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.










So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.










So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(










At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


----------



## llwynog

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


Great post Andy.
Looking forward to reading the next article.
(By the way I am also in the middle of sharpening a hand saw, it was originally a crosscut saw but I am sharpening it for ripping as zero fleam seemed easier to me for a first try)


----------



## lysdexic

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


If I keep reading your posts I might accidentally learn something :^)


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


*llwynog* - There's nothing like a good cliffhanger is there?

*Scott* - Me too. LOL.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


Andy, that's quite the pictorial. I'm waiting with anticipation. I walk by my unsharpened saws and thing "I need to get back to them" ....... then I think, I wonder what Joe would charge me if I shipped all of them to him? I can sharpen, but the retooth gets me every time.

Thanks for the series. Like Scott, I figure you may be able to teach me something after all.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


Andy, thanks for sharing this! That is such a lovely saw…I'm certain you will fix her nicely!

It's good for us meager woodworkers to see masters like yourself make mistakes…then sit and think about what went wrong…then jump up with excitement as you think of solutions!!! very inspiring!!!

In your spare time…you should write a book…tool restores…home life…whatever…I bet everyone here would buy a copy!


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


I agree Terry, everyone here would buy a copy!


----------



## LeeJ

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


Great post!!

Lee


----------



## jjw5858

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


Haaaaa….....this is classic. We have certainly all had moments like this…..I have no worries Andy you will most definitely come up with the problem and show us how it all works. Great blog with a lot of solid information. I think a Brit Comic Strip is needed with each blog though from now on…..haaaa that's great stuff…lol. All the best my friend look forward to more!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


*Don* - Currently I'm the opposite. I can file new teeth first time every time. You should try the template method and just take your time.

*Terry* - That means I'd sell about 40 copies. I think that's what they call a flop. )

*Lee* - Thanks.

*Joe* - Thanks. I don't know about a regular Brit comic strip. It was hard enough to get my wife to take these photos. Even then, I had to go and have a shave first. She said "You do know these will be plastered all over the internet, don't you?" "That's the idea" I said. I mean really Joe, I'm 52 years old. Like a give a crap what people think. LOL.


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


Nice post Andy, a bit over my head, but I may be learning something too. I am sure you can fix it. Thanks for posting.


----------



## planepassion

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


41 books Andy. Put me down for one.

Man I appreciate you writing About cows and calves. I've been battling this Jain as well. tried filing slope for the first time last week. what an epiphany.

nice pictorial too buddy. can't wait for the next episode.


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


Very informative and comical Andy. Keep the lessons coming.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


Ha ha ha, classic post Andy, cant wait to see the happy ending


----------



## AnthonyReed

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


Great post Andy. As always, thanks for bring us along.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


*Shane* - Thanks for the vote of confidence. Let me know if you have any specific questions and I'll do my best to address them.

*Dave* - Thanks. I'm learning bucket loads myself. 

*Mauricio* - I thought you'd like this one. I fixed it today. Hope to get an update posted later tonight.

*Tony* - Always a pleasure to share my journey into restoring hand tools and learning to use them.


----------



## need2boat

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


Andy,

Anybody that's sharpening today has gone through the same thing. From seeing your results on other projects I'm sure you'll make a much better go at it next time around and realize your starting off with the advances stuff first.

The big tooth little tooth tends to happen when you shape the tooth then gets exaggerated when you go back to sharpen or add fleam.

It's a lot easier to sharpen from one side, even for cross cut. Even guys like Matt do it like that. There are exceptions for basic cross cut you don't need to flip.

I find if you kind of count your strokes in your head when you filing cross it help you pick up on problems. So if your filing 2 full stroke on the teeth bent away then 4 on the ones bent towards you, well there's a problem. Yea you may have an odd tooth that needs an extra stroke but they all should need about the same..

Also when filing fleam or shaping the tooth, leave the light alone, dip your head down and look at the tooth from the side you will pick up on the off sizes instantly. Do this every few teeth. It fast and will save you a lot of time.

For keeping the angle maybe try a woodblock cut at the angle and placed on the tooth line. I find for me that really works great. I can move in close to my hand when I get started then out of the way. It also helps that it's at the file high there then down on the table as the perspective starts to play tricks on you.

keep up the good fight!

Joe


----------



## reggiek

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


Great post, I always enjoy learning the different tech jargons used on these tools. You certainly are going into a lot of detail. I had thought about doing this kind of fiddling myself but have not had much chance to experiment(mostly due to time constraints - it seems that I spend an inordinate amount of time working on my machines, oiling, cleaning, tweaking…you name it - this takes me away from doing as much wood work as I would like) I have a couple very nice Japanese saws that have replaceable blades - along with a couple veritas gent saws that I have had sharpened and tweaked (there was a great pro-sharpening service in town that has since closed (owner retired) - maybe next time I could attempt them myself after reviewing your methods (or perhaps not…lol…it is really easy to continue to rely on the pros to do them..). I can't wait to see how your experiment progresses…to see if self sets and sharpening can give me a better saw. Thank you for sharing your experiences so far.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


Brit, what a wonderful post! Not so much for seeing the mistakes (oh, those hurt!) but for the clear detail and absolute focus on the stuff that makes for good saw sharpening (and use)! You're truly one of kind. Thanks so much for sharing your journey with us!


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


Thanks Andy.
It's all starting to make more sense now. I have to admit that I have made the same mistake of cows & calves. I realised that my problem was exactly how Joe explains it above. I'll be more confident the next time. I'm sure if it was not for guys like you I wouldn't have even tried!

My thanks to Joe for putting it in plain English 

I confess I did take my first two saws a 12" & 14" to a saw shop, both 15 ppi. Cost £15 to have both done!

Cheers
John


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


*Joe* - Thanks for the input. As you'll see in the my next post, I think I've got the hang of it now. It isn't perfect, but I'm quite pleased with it for my first attempt at filing fleam and negative rake. I'll try filing from one side after I've done a couple more saws. I'm happy with my fleam template, it works well on my saw vise as it is located just below the file. A block of wood would work better on a traditional metal saw vise though.

*Reggie* - Thanks. I think saw sharpening is a skill that well worth learning. What you have to realise is that the process that I'm going through here and in the next post is major surgery for a saw that has just been restored and probably hasn't cut wood for 50 years. Once you have a saw filed how you like it, it can be touched up on in about 10 minutes.

*Smitty* - Cheers mate!

*John* - I'm surprised you managed to find a saw shop. Where was it?


----------



## lysdexic

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


I am curious about the "comic strip." Did you have the script wriiten and then took to the pics or the other way around? Also, did your wife humor you by taking the pics or did you run back and forth to the tripod feeling just a little silly?


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


*Scott* - Script? I just write whatever comes into my head. I thought it might be fun to do a comic strip, so I got my wife take the pictures. I just sat on the floor striking silly poses. After I saw the results, I drew the little devil and added some captions to each one. I think there's a part of me that never really grew up. ) It cheered me up after I'd messed up my filing anyhow.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


now i am more worried about doing this


----------



## stefang

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


Fun and informative blog Andy. Now I'm on to no. 13.


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


Andy
The saw shop is -
*W Wilkinson (Sawmakers) Ltd*
Invincible Drive
Armstrong Ind. Est.
Newcastle Upon Tyne

Obviously they don't make saws anymore. They sharpen industrial stuff for the big boys around there. Probably the likes of Vickers, the tank builders. 
Cheers
John


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


*Lance* - No need to be scared mate. You know as well as I do that it is unrealistic to expect to be able to file a saw perfectly first time. As long as you learn from your mistakes, it's all good.

*Mike* - Thanks.

*John* - Thanks for the info. If I'd sent them this saw it would have been going home as that was where Cowell & Chapman had their shop.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


Andy I laughed my head offfffffffffffffffffffffffff
Auch…....
Is it due to the fact you set the teeth first?
Best thoughts buddy,
Mads


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


*Mads* - Like you, I'm just a big kid. I don't think I'll ever change in that respect. )


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *You win some, you lose some*
> 
> So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.
> 
> With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.
> 
> So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.
> 
> I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.
> 
> Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.
> 
> The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.


PLEASE never do!!!


----------



## Brit

*Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*

In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.

Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:


Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
Filing too aggressively.
Not applying pressure in the right direction

Here's how I fixed it.

I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.

I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!



















Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.










Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.

When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.










When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.










I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.










Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.










Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.










Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.

In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.










So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.



















Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.






All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.

First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.










Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.










Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.










Chamfered all the edges.










Job done.










P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


----------



## lysdexic

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


Andy said:*"and blow me if it wasn't straight."*

Great and informative post until you got all nasty and crass!


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


I knew you could do. Glad you are back on the saws, and done with the jubilee. When is the big bench build commencing?


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


But why set about making a comb as your first project?


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


*Scott* - LOL

*Shane* - I'm glad I'm back on the saws too. The jubilee projects were a welcome break, but I'd much rather finish my saws.

*Smitty* - What's a comb?


----------



## lysdexic

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


Doesn't your back hurt working on that Workmate? Seriously, aren't they like 28" high. Uggh, I want to stand up straight just thinking about it.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


I guess I'm just used to it now Scott. I'm not sure how high it is actually. The worst thing about it is that I have to keep a foot on the step when sawing just to keep the bench in place. Even then it still shakes about. Piece of crap really. LOL.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


i've recorded this so I can play it over and over in my sleep. Subliminal teaching kind of thing.


----------



## jjw5858

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


Wonderful Andy, I had no worries you would solve it. Look at that amazing saw go to task! I know your enjoying it all and thanks for taking the time and sharing with us your knowledge of it…...this is really appreciated. How great would it be to have a LJ'S convention and we could all meet in person?....haaaaaa we would all have a blast for sure!

All the best and thanks for taking the time,

Joe


----------



## AnthonyReed

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


Haha - Scott.

Thank you Andy.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


*Don* - What a revelation it was filing those shiners and seeing all the teeth brought back into line. They look like soldiers on parade. There may be a couple of teeth in the troop in need of a bit of discipline, but like I said in part 11, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. )

*Joe* - It ain't perfect, but damn it was good to see, hear and feel that saw cut wood. I couldn't stop sawing. ) Watching the video, I noticed that I need to practice extending my stroke length. I'm not using the first 2" of teeth immediately in front of the handle because I'm so used to using my 12" carcass saw. I agree an LJ summit would be fantastic. I've only ever met Mads and I value his friendship dearly. It would be great to meet you guys. I'll have to fly to the US, hire a Winnebago and pay you guys a visit. LOL.

*Tony* - I can't tell you what a relief it was get this one working.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


Andy nice job on my tenon saw how should it be sharpened is a tenon saw a rip saw or a combination like the saw you just did


----------



## Sylvain

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


Excellent tutorial.
I will just flip the pictures for myself (right handed).

It seems absolutely identical and perfectly spaced teeth would not be desirable.
The tiny variations prevent the blade entering into vibration. 
You just have to decide what is "tiny" ;-)


----------



## stefang

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


Great blog Andy! I've learned some things I will probably never use unless a conversation about saws come up and then I can use all the new found theory to impress someone? If I were younger I would be inspired to get into this stuff. Combs are found on chicken heads.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


I know I know, I need to get back at it.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


Excellent post, Andy! Thanks for the lessons…you make me feel as though even I could sharpen a saw with practice…all I need is this sort of inspiration! AND to finish another 1500 feet of fencing. 

My friend, you deserve a real shop…hope it's in your near future!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


*Lance* - The simple answer is that yes, a tenon saw should be filed rip. However, the types of wood that you will predominantly cut with it as well as the weight of the spine, can influence what tooth geometry you use. I choose 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam because this saw has an extra heavy brass back and I want to use it to cut moderate to hard hardwoods. Out of the three woods I tested it on, it worked best on the hard maple and left the best finish. It is too aggressive for softwood and Sapele really, but I will have other saws sharpened differently to cut softwoods and softer hardwoods.

*Sylvain* - Thanks. Trust me there are lots of tiny variations in those teeth. LOL. I've spent my life flipping pictures in blogs and books, so excuse me if I don't feel sorry for you having to flip mine. )

*Mike* - It isn't for everyone. There is a strong argument for buying hardpoint saws and just replacing them when they go blunt. I just find old saws and their history to be a very interesting subject. At the moment they fascinate me, but once I've sharpened them all, I'll be moving on to other tools.

*Don* - I'm saying nothing.

*Terry* - 1500 feet!!! That's a life sentence.


----------



## Sylvain

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


Brit,
It was not meant as critisism nor as a suggestion to flip all your pictures (that's why I wrote "for myself").
I understand that most of the time it is for lefties that life is a bit more difficult.

At first, pictures 1 & 2 looked strange to me and I was experimenting what you must be experimenting nearly all the time.
The nice thing is that now, flipping electronic pictures is very easy. (Always look at the bright side of your life….)


----------



## stefang

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


I didn't mean to sound so flippant with my first comment Andy. t think there is a lot of culture in the skills you've demonstrated and I think it is wonderful that we have some folks like yourself who are learning those skills and passing them along so future generations of woodworkers can have some contact with the past. Hand work is a bit difficult for me these days, and so I am just appreciating learning more about these traditional tools without actually doing anything about it myself.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


Beautiful saw Andy, I am now again with a big smile after seeing you saved that wonderful saw.
You are one of a kind!
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## stefang

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


I didn't mean to sound so flippant with my first comment Andy. t think there is a lot of culture in the skills you've demonstrated and I think it is wonderful that we have some folks like yourself who are learning those skills and passing them along so future generations of woodworkers can have some contact with the past. Hand work is a bit difficult for me these days, and so I am just appreciating learning more about these traditional tools without actually doing anything about it myself.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


*Sylvain* - I know my friend. I was just messing with you. Us lefties don't often hear right-handed people say that so it struck me as being funny. )

*Mike* - No problem. I didn't think you were being flippant at all.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


Amazing Andy, Congrats on your saw sharpening victory! That saw is a thing of beauty and now it cuts as good as it looks.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


Thanks Mauricio.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


On my marples saw i DONT WANT TO REMOVE THE WONDERFUL FINISH ON THE TOTE I do want it to look good is there a high quality cleaner for the wood to look clean as well has enhance the lovely patina on the wood


----------



## Sylvain

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


About the tote
has anyone tried this
burnishing the tote with a bone
http://eccentrictoolworks.com/2010/05/21/a-bone-to-pick/


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


Never tried it Sylvain. In fact I've never even heard of it being done to saw handles. Looks good though doesn't it? Mind you, I think if I was spending that much on a saw, I'd want a more protective finish on the tote. He does some amazing work. I love the subtle embellishments he adds to his totes.


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


Nice comeback Andy. You even had a wonderful demo video. Well written and produced. I love it. Keep up the good work.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


I've used bone burnishing to finish a few pieces…mostly arrow shafts…produces a very hard surface on woods! Antler also works very well…maybe better…never tried cooked bone from the store, though…

But, IMO this technique doesn't produce the waterproof finish that a single coat of shellac can…probably no big deal on a saw handle that you plan to use regularly…you'll finish that guy with the oil from your hand. 

AND shellac smells a whole lot sweeter than bone being shaped in your shop by sanding tools…


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


Lance - You could try Dr Woodwell's Wood Elixhir. I've never tried it, but it might be what you want.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


Terry - If only there was a way to impart the oil from your hands without the dirt from your hands.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


WELL GUYS AFTER SEVERAL HOURS OF SANDING THE PLATE I DID THE MATH I WILL PUT OVER A TOTAL 100 HOURS INTO THE PLATE BEFORE I have it the way it should be I have been offered by Joe to replace the plate for a fair price we are still negotiation but i am leaning towards having joe do the new plate


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


Post a photo of where you've got to Lance.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


ill post the photo tomorrow when i pack the saw up for its trip to ny ny to visit joe joe will be putting on a new plate i will buff the brass before it leaves here and i hope i AM MAKING THE RIGHT CHOICE


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity*
> 
> In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.
> 
> Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
> Filing too aggressively.
> Not applying pressure in the right direction
> 
> Here's how I fixed it.
> 
> I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.
> 
> I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.
> 
> When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.
> 
> In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.
> 
> First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamfered all the edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. )


I think you are Lance. Joe will see you right.


----------



## Brit

*Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*

Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.

If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.










You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².

If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.










If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.










Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.

Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.










Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.










These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.

I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.

After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.






I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.

Here's where this saw's journey started…










…and here it is now ready for work.










Thanks for your support folks!


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


Saw is a beauty Andy. Thanks for sharing, very informative.


----------



## llwynog

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


Hi Andy,
This saw is now simply gorgeous ! You did a terrific job in restoring it.

Your comment about the rake angle affecting the area between teeth (and thus its sawdust holding capacity) is one I never considered but find highly enlightening. It is an interesting thing to think about when sawing through wide planks that may tend to clog the spaces between teeth.

Your blog along with Mafe's is one I always look forward to reading when I receive a new post notification.

Cheers,


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


Information overload. I'm going to have to read this one again.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


Thanks guys. Just a snapshot of the kind of stuff I think about. Sad isn't it?

*Don* - You've got plenty of time, I'm off to Germany in the morning. Here we go again… another project close to home… NOT.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


Good luck in Germany. Hopefully you'll have some time to look for some tools over there.


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


Andy most informative. The tenon 101 was great. To see the saw go through its rigors making a joint helps me a lot. I am a visual person and learn better that way. You sir are well on you way to saw excellence.
Nice!


----------



## steliart

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


very nice saw, thanks 4 the video


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


Really interesting Andy, thank you for the light.
I am getting more and more happy for not having had the time and now the workshop to start my sawsharpening tour, since you provide so much help that I can hopefully learn before starting my self.
Best of my thoughts,
Mads


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


*Don* - Thanks. Just arrived at the hotel. I had to fly via Zurich and my flight from Heathrow to Zurich was delayed. When I landed in Zurich, I had to sprint from one end of the airport to the other and they arranged my own bus to take me out to the plane from Zurich to Stuttgart. I was the last one to board and everyone looked at me as if it was my fault. Talk about cutting it fine. A minute later and they would have unloaded my suitcase.

*Dave* - It is a lot easier to saw when you have a workbench that doesn't wobble though.  I'll have to see if I can fix mine as both of the vise screw no longer work. If not, I'll either make a portable bench or buy another Workmate.

*Steliart* - You're welcome.

*Mads* - Once you develop a feel for filing, it isn't that difficult. It would also be easier in a workshop with a raking light. Working out in the garden as I've been doing, the sun either illuminates my 'shiners' or not depending on where the clouds are. LOL.


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


Andy simple construction grade will make a nice starter bench. And have a bit of weight. I am still using the one I built. It will become my secondary when I take the leap to the Roubo.


----------



## nobuckle

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


Your posts on the this topic are very timely for me. I am embarcing on my first attempt to restore some old hand saws that were given to me. I need to learn as much as I can before I tackle sharpening the teeth. Your posts will be an invaluable resource. Thanks.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


Thanks *Doug* - Please remember though that I'm only one step ahead of you. It is all new to me as well, so you have to take what I say with a pinch of salt.  At the very least, I hope this blog causes people to consider some of the things that I've mentioned, even if they reach different conclusions.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


ANOTHER excellent post…Andy, there's NO WAY you could write a flop…you are too good at explaining everything!

...will be thinking of triangles all day now as I continue pull barbed wire…hmmmmmmm…

Thanks for the video on tenon cutting! you certainly make it look easy! Darn it…I wish you'd quit cutting up all that sapele…you must have enough to build yourself a decent bench from it.


----------



## ShopTinker

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


You're suggesting we need to learn how to use our tools? That made me smile. We are generally in to big a hurry to learn to do that. I remember as a boy, before I was allowed to use power tools, learning how to saw so that the saw didn't catch. It sure did make sawing less of a chore. It was many years after that before I learned to saw straight and follow my mark.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


Andy, your a wealth of knowledge, the visuals are great. I loved the videos, nice to watch. Sawing with a sharp saw is such a pleasure. Your making me want to buy some old backsaws…

So what is the moral of the story? No rake cuts more aggressively but fills up faster, 6 degree cuts less aggressively but removes more material….

The Gramercy saw got through the pine in 5-6 strokes. I guess its hard to tell if it was due to the 6 degree rake or the saw plate being 30% thinner.

The Diston took 1 or two more strokes. from 6 to 8 strokes is a 25% difference, so how much of that difference is due to the saw plate and how much is due the rake?

My guess is that the rake is just personal preference since the they both cut just as fast?


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


*Terry* - You're too kind sir. Sadly there's not enough Sapele to make a bench.  Good luck with the rest of your fence sentence.

*Dan* - Yeah, we're all in a hurry these days aren't we? No time to stop and smell the roses. I'm starting to realize though that it is often worth taking the time to learn how to use a tool properly and practice with it because when I actually come to use it on a project, I waste less wood, the results are better and more predicatable and I end up feeling good about using the tools rather than frustrated.

*Mauricio* - You NEED some more backsaws, you know you do. As to the moral of the story, the jury is still out on whether I'll continue adding rake to my rip backsaws. At the moment, I'm not convinced. I need to use them for a bit longer. As far as plate thickness goes, a thinner plate has less material to remove, but will get considerably hotter when cutting things like tenon cheeks where you have a lot of teeth in the cut and there's a lot of friction. A thinner plate will also bend more easily and on deeper cuts you can end up going off course if you're not careful. Thinner isn't always better. A thicker plate might need a few more strokes to complete the cut, but if you end up with a tenon that is square to the shoulders without having to pare the face with a chisel, shoulder plane or router plane, it probably ends up being quicker. I think at the end of the day, it is nice to have options and once you feel confident enough to file your own saws, you can always sharpen them for the task at hand.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


Huge amount of great information as usual.

I find it strange that you, of all people, have not made yourself a bench-hook.

Thank you Andy. You put out tremendous efforts to share your findings with us and i appreciated it.

Safe travels.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


Cheers *Tony*. I'm so bored sitting in yet another hotel room. 60 channels on the TV and only one of them in English and that's BBC World News. LOL.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


I do need some more back saws, but I cant think about buying and restoring anything right now until I get my bench done, I'm sure I could have used a couple my build but now I just need to push through!

I'm kind of annoyed though that brass backed saws are so scarce in the states. Those are the ones I really like. And at the prices I've seen on some of them on ebay I might as well buy new which presents a financial obstacle…


----------



## DaddyZ

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


Nice One Brit !!

What kind of wood is that Holder made out of? (last Pic)

I have a piece or two I salvaged from a pallet.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


The tooth guard is made of Sapele, but you can use any hard or softwood.


----------



## DaddyZ

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


Thanks


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


Hi Andy, I'm catching up again. That is one handsome backsaw you have there marrah. The only comment I was going to make after watching the video was that you need a stable bench, but I see you already know this? Good news is you are well proficient at cutting tenons from the saw [a great skill to have] so that new bench is just around the corner?

Cheers
John.


----------



## planepassion

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


Sweet post Andy,

Your #5 has come out nicely and it cuts oh, so well as your video attests. Now you've got me wanting to try zero rake on my next tenon rip saw filing. I've been filing all my rip saws with 5 degrees of negative rake and that's worked well. But I want to compare it to zero rake. On the other hand, your geometry lesson showed that a bit of rake adds more mass behind the cutting edge with all the attendant benefits that your dissertation proved.

Your bench is legendary, but I got frustrated just watching it move to and fro with your sawing action. I can only imagine how it must feel to have to steady it brother


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


*John* - It is frustrating having a wobbly bench and having to keep a foot on the step of the bench when sawing. I think that once I eventually get in my shop and build a heavy solid bench, I'm going to be like a bull getting ready to charge every time I do to saw something on it, constantly lifting my foot and looking for somewhere to rest it. LOL. It might take a while to break that habit. Still, you do what you've got to do right?

*Brad* - I'm going to finish sharpening the rest of my backsaws the way I said I'd do them in Saw Talk #11 and then live with them for a while. At the moment, I'm not convinced that 'a touch of rake' is worth filing on a rip saw. I will probably also try filing 5 degrees of rake on the first 3 inches and transitioning to 0 rake over the next inch with the rest of the teeth being 0 rake.


----------



## Dennisgrosen

Brit said:


> *Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested*
> 
> Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.
> 
> If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides *a* and *c* below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle *abc* = the base (*a*) multiplied by the height (*b*) divided by 2, so if *a* = 1 and *b* = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².
> 
> If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (*d*) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (*f*) becomes marginally shorter. If *d* = 1.2 and *e* = 1.6, then the area of triangle *def* is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.
> 
> Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.
> 
> I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
> Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.
> 
> After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.
> 
> Here's where this saw's journey started…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is now ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support folks!


Andy alot of info here  thanks 
about Zurich be glad for the execise … you needed it after the party …. LOL
now you are in stutgart the consider to buy a new car directly from the assemplyline 
I´m sure both Merzedes and Porche has one for you …. LOL

good luck down there 

Dennis


----------



## Brit

*W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*

Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.










Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.










Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.

There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.

Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.










The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.










So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.










After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.

I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.










I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.










I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.

Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.



















I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.

Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.

Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.






So this is where the journey started for this saw…










…and here it is reborn.



















Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.










T.T.F.N.


----------



## lysdexic

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


Those are just your rips! They are gorgeous.

I saw a client today who just returned from England yesterday after a 6 week visit. His wife is British. They went over for the Diamond Jubilee. He was remorse because he usually plays golf twice a week but couldn't because of the incessant rain.

We talked for awhile and I thought I sounded fairly familiar with the current events over there just based on what I have read in your blogs. Cool.

Interestingly, Matt Cianci posted a blog entry just today on the sharpening of the 14" sash saw.


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


Those are some beauties Andy. Thanks for sharing. Wont be long now, and you will have more saws than you know what to do with. Hint, hint.


----------



## kenn

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


What great looking collection, even better with all of the work you've done putting some life back in them. I'm looking forward to seeing the crosscut collection. Keep up the information, you are the LJ expert on saw restoration!


----------



## jjw5858

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


Wow Andy, looks terrific! What a really nice collection you have and a great knowledge you share. Great blog on all of this work, thanks for keeping us inspired at our benches!

All the best my friend,

Joe


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


*Scott* - Glad you could hold your own on the diamond jubilee. Matt's blog post on sash saws is very interesting. I am also starting to form an opinion on the rights and wrongs of filing 14" backsaws, but I'm not going to disclose it until the very last post in this series. I think you'll find it interesting. Sorry if you can't sleep at night in the meantime due to the suspense. )

*Shane* - I'm learning so much doing this, I couldn't even begin to tell you. You're right, once they're all sharpened up, I'll probably stand there for five minutes trying to choose which one to use. Life's a bitch ain't it?

*kenn* - I'm a long way from being an expert on saws, but I'm so glad I embarked on this journey. For anyone who works predominantly with hand tools, I think there are four groups of tools that you need to know intimately. Boring tools, saws, planes and chisels. I'm confident with boring tools, I'm nearly there with saws, but I still consider myself a newbie when it comes to planes and chisels. You can't do everything at once though can you?

*Joe* - I don't know about you, but I find that blogging really helps to consolidate my thoughts. It also gives me something to refer back to at a later date rather than having to call on my increasingly absent memory. LOL.


----------



## stefang

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


Great blog(s) Andy. I always learn something interesting from them. I have to say that learning about these tools from the ground up should put you in a position to use them in the best way and just as importantly or maybe even more so, you will be able to maintain them properly, allowing you to get the best results from them. A very nice collection indeed. I also liked the squirrel.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


Thanks *Mike*. You've probably realised by now that I like picking a tool and getting totally absorbed in it. I think backsaws are fascinating tools and there is so much to learn in order to get the best out of them. I'm really enjoying the journey.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


Andy, yet another super informative blog, thank you. I also feel that blogging makes the thoughts settle, and the comments and ideas helps also.
What a wonderful collection of saws, I really admire your talent for the restore and your eye for what is worth buying and restoring.
Best thoughts,
Mads
I would also find it hard to choose from all these beauties.


----------



## lysdexic

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


Mads said- " I really admire your talent for the restore and your eye for what is worth buying and restoring."

I agree with that.

Also, someday I will restore my Tyzack 14" back saw and your saws will serve as the standard to which I will strive.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


that is a set of saws to be proud of Andy.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


Okay, someday I'll have to get serious about saws and immerse myself in your sharpening blogs. What a tremendous resource you've opted to share! Always entertaining, too. Kudos, Andy, on your attention to detail and absolute resolve to master these fine tools. Thanks for posting, and Congrats on the Finished No. 120!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


Thanks guys.


----------



## SamuelP

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


Bravo!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


That's it? Really? A couple whacks with a deadblow and you have an arrow straight saw? Damn it Andy, must you make everything everything look so flipping easy to do?

Thank you for the continuing wealth of information and (if i am understanding it properly) congratulations on the completion of all your beautiful rip saws.

Top notch Sir, top notch.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


I just love watching the videos of the saws in action, sounds just as nice as planes making shavings…

You make me want to buy some old saws every time I read your blogs. But then I look on eBay and brass backed saws are so scarce in the States, at least they aren't available at reasonable prices.

I really needed one of those sash saws on my bench build. It would have actually been faster than using my band saw because I have had to spend time trueing up my cheeks with a router plane.

Thanks for all the great info, it will be a great resource to refer back to once I buy some more saws to rehab.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


*Sam* - Thank you sir.

*Tony* - I could make it more complicated if you'd like, but honestly most of the time a few well-placed whacks of increasing force is all it takes. I've read that some people use a couple of adjustable spanners (crescent wrenches in the US) to straighten out a bend in the spine of a backsaw. Personally I like my method because there is no risk of marring the brass. Of course that is only the solution IF the spine is bent. If the spine is straight and there is a wave in the plate, then the solution is different. I've just got the crosscut backsaws to sharpen now if it ever stops raining. )

My thanks to everyone for all the encouragement.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


*Mauricio* - I think I'm starting to feel when a saw is cutting well now, but your right you can also hear when a saw is cutting correctly too. Keep looking on ebay. I'm sure you'll find one eventually. If you find one you're interested in but are not sure if it is worth restoring, feel free to PM me with the link and I'll take a look and let you know what I think. Often I think cutting tenons by hand is quicker than setting up machines and it isn't that difficult once you get used to using a particular saw. It is definitely a skill worth cultivating.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


Thanks Andy, I'll take you up on that offer once my bench is finished.


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


Brit you are scaring me with that clamp under that moving saw. I cant watch
Great video, and lesson. As always a very well written and produced blog. People will be using these for reference for a long time to come.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


*Dave* - It was scaring me too. Although you can't tell in the video, the front edge of the saw did hit the clamp at one point. No harm done though. Unfortunately, it is the only way I can clamp anything at the moment. I'll see if I can fix the Workmate when I've got some spare time.


----------



## Sylvain

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


Excellent,
I bought a few ordinary saw on flea markets but I still have to try to sharpen them.
Two weeks ago I had a look at files in a home improvement store here, but they were already crumbled before use. (I had also red Paul Sellers'blog so I didn't bought them).
This file problem seems a real problem which could prevent us of using resharpable saws.
About your clamp, what about putting the bar under the top of the workmate instead of above.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


*Sylvain* - I hope the file manufacturers can get their act together and continue turning out dependable files that we can rely on. It would be a tragedy if the art of saw filing was allowed to die.

I'd love to put the clamp underneath, but I can't hold the clamp (heavy) and tighten it and hold the workpiece in place at the same time. I'll sort something out, but don't panic I'm accutely aware that there is a big chumk of metal under my newly sharpened saw.


----------



## alba

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


Andy they are great

10 tpi is a nice size

jamie


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


Cheers Jamie.


----------



## icemanhank

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


Thanks for posting this, I just managed to buy a few saws at a local farm auction and this is one of the saws in the lot, it seems a beauty. There are quite a few other saws that seem of equal quality but I am not sure of the brand names.

To get the blade and the spine back to being that shiny is it just plain elbow grease or is there a secret to it? I would love to get my saws looking and working as they would have done in their hey day.

Regards David


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.
> 
> There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.
> 
> Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.
> 
> I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.
> 
> Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.
> 
> Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.
> 
> Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So this is where the journey started for this saw…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> …and here it is reborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.


Hi David - No trick I'm afraid and yes it is mostly elbow grease working up through the grits. I generally start at P80 and work up to P400 or P600. I was lucky with this saw in that there wasn't any pitting, so it was relatively easy to get it that shiny.


----------



## Brit

*Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*

I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.

Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.










The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.


Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.











Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.

So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.










I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.










The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.










Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".










I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"










Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.










Anyhow, here's the finished saw.










I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.










Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


----------



## jjw5858

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


Looks great Andy, glad there was a pause in the floods for some saw work lol. I recently watched SEASON 2 The Woodrights Shop and there is a wonderful episode with Roy breaking out all his saws. If you were interested I think you can purchase internet versions of the single episodes instead of the whole DVD. Here is a link…http://shopclass.popularwoodworking.com/c-54-all-woodwrights-shop-channel-videos.aspx?pagenum=3

The show was really fun and thought of you watching it.

Be well and stay dry!

Cheers,

Joe


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


The handle of saw is beautiful. Eventhough, I really have no idea about what you are talking about, I still enjoy reading the posts and looking at the saws. Wish you were closer, so I could try to pry one of the finished ones away from you. The collection is amazing, or as you might say…it is hoss. : )


----------



## barecycles

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


That's absolutely stunning Andy. I've got 3 Disstons in various stages of "fixin'" and yours puts mine to shame. Love your "Saw Talk" series!

I just recently got one with a handle that's been patched to death.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


cheeeze Andy, talk about making 'em better than new. That's gorgeous. I don't have to worry about my files crapping out. They just sit on the bench.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


*Joe* - Thanks, I'll check it out.

*Shane* - No shame in looking at the pictures. )

*barecycles* - You've got it bad my friend.

*Don* - I was smiling to myself today whilst sharpening that D8. I put off trying to sharpen saws for so long and kind of convinced myself it was really difficult. It isn't. Once you've done a few, it's no big deal really. It feels good to know I can maintain my own saws now and I'm really glad I stuck with it.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


Don said it…better than new…what a lovely saw! Andy, you continue to set the gold standard for restores!!! Most of yours end up as my desktop image until the next one…

Yeah…I was sorta wondering why you tried to learn sharpening on those itsy bitsy teeth on the backsaws…wow…I can see these 7 ppi without my glasses on! That's where I plan to start my lessons…AFTER the fencing…have completed over 4100 feet and the end is in sight, hoss!

Andy, have you already started a rusty collection of sweet handplanes to restore and amaze us this coming fall when the saws run out?


----------



## SamuelP

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


Andy - I have looked abit in your blogs and I did not run across what type of files you use.

What do you use?


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


Lookin pretty hoss there andy!


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


I was smiling to myself today whilst sharpening that D8.

I was doing the same as I was rubbing the oil into the checkered tote. Sometimes its nice to just stop and smell the shavings!


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


I have only sharpened one saw, it was a hand saw, and even though it was challenging, I was thinking why do Andy's saw sharpening blogs seem so complicated, was I missing something, did I not sharpen it right? , why does Paul Sellers make it seem so simple(10 min), what is fleam, but now it makes sense, I haven't sharpened any backsaws yet. ;-)

This saw is spectacular, I hope to be as skilled as you at restoring saws someday Andy, Great job. Better than new for sure.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


Joe, I just watched the preview of the Woodright Shops episode on Saw's, looks pretty interesting, I may have to buy that episode.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


Is there a woodright shop episode on large wooden screws? I saw a clip on the 20th anniversary episode that suggested there might be, I wonder what season.


----------



## llwynog

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


Wow, the saw looks clean and new as er… something very clean and new (not good with comparisons today).


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


*Terrry* - It was a treat to actually be able to see the shape of the teeth that I was filing for once. I think it was a happy coincidence that the file gave out and forced me to do a handsaw. I was thinking the crown on the toothline might be difficult to maintain too, so just to give myself a reference I laid the saw down on a piece of MDF before I started and ran a marker pen along the teeth. I did this just so I had a reference for how much crown there should be just in case I messed it up. At the end of filing the teeth though, I laid the saw on my template and I had maintained the crown perfectly.

*Sam* - The files I use are made by BAHCO. I buy them through Workshopheaven.com. You can buy them with or without the handles. At the moment I'm buying them with the handles and when the saw files wear out, I'm using the handles for some of my other files and rasps that I've been using without handles for ages. Eventually, I'll buy them without handles which is obviously more economical.

*Chrisstef* - Thanks.

*Don* - Amen to that.

*Mauricio* - Much has been written about sharpening saws and it is easy to find out which files to use for which saws, learn about rake, fleam and slope etc., but I think knowing the theory of sharpening saws is just a starting point. Particularly when filing backsaws, it is more about listening, looking and feeling how the file is cutting and being able to develop the muscle memory to consistently produce repeatable results with the file. Also with backsaws, there is a stage of sharpening that most authors don't write about and that is tuning the saw after sharpening. Things like looking at the surface finish of the cut, ensuring the toothline is perfectly straight, having consistent set etc. On a backsaw, these things are critical for a sweet-cutting saw. I think there is a lot of skill in knowing, a) if a saw is cutting well and b) where the problem lies if it isn't.

Paul is a very experienced sharpener. He's been doing it for years and makes it look easy. If all you need to do is touch up a saw to bring it back to sharp though, then it is easy and quick. On the other hand, if you want to retooth a saw to another TPI, then that takes a lot more time and there is more scope for error.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


Thanks *Fabrice*.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


I agree with Andy (as usual) touching up or just resharpening a saw is pretty easy. I get lost trying to recut or remake the teethe. I've got a back saw I really like that the teeth are shot, plus I had a go at them. I may just send it to Joe, but want to give it one more go.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


*Don* - I wish I lived closer to you so I could show you my method for filing new teeth. It is easy once you know how. I've got next week off work, so bear with me and let me see if I can't get it on video. I'll need to get the video camera in close, but as long as I can do that I should be able to demonstrate it. You'll kick youself once you get it and never look back. Watch this space for a Saw Talk Special on filing new teeth. LOL.

What PPI is your backsaw? Any chance you could post some photos of the teeth as they are now?


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


What a beautiful saw Andy.
Those teeth looks shark!
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


Thanks *Mads*.

*Terry* - I forgot to tell you earlier. I do have a few bench planes that are waiting to be restored. I've decided not to blog about it though, just do and show the results. I can't compete with Don Yoda. :~)


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.












I think its 12 tpi


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


Thanks Don.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


I've got this week off and I'm NOT going to waste it. If anyone has seen the film 'Snakes on a Plane' starring Samuel L. Jackson, they'll get the following caption.










"I've had it with this MF rain in this MF garden."

Carry on.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


I think its If anyone has seen *any* film starring Samuel L. Jackson, they'll get the following caption.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


LOL, thats the spirit. Looking forward to more frequent posts from Andy!


----------



## alba

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


Andy you are spoiling that Workmate

It will want painted next. LoL

Jamie


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


Andy, that set up is so…ummm…humble that it really underscores how brilliant your finished restores are!

If you've got the whole week off…fly on over to Alabama, USA…and you can use my 1200 square feet shop…I sure as heck don't have time to play in there anymore…I'll probably have to re-restore all the unused tools this winter…

I've had it with this MF fence in this MF sun…


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


ok, the Millers Falls fence I get, but Millers Falls Sun? 

that must be some fence Terry. We're gonna need some photos.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


^photos of my Millers Falls fence? out in the George Deere sunshine?

OK, will see what I can do…


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


Yeah your're probably right *Don*, any of his films will do.

*Mauricio* - A saw a day is my goal.

*Jamie* - It is such a heap of crap, I don't think paint would stick to it. 

*Terry* - It does look a bit minimalist doesn't it? When I was a kid, my mum used to tell me to only get the toys out that I was going to play with. Nowadays, I try to follow that rule with my tools. I have to admit that Alabama sounds tempting. Mind you, virtually anywhere else would be tempting at the moment. It is the beginning of July and I was working out in the garden with three layers on, a warm hat and my nose was running. What's up with that? This is what happens when the Gulf Stream shifts slightly.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening*
> 
> I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.
> 
> Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.
> 
> 
> Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
> Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
> Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.
> 
> So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
> After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, here's the finished saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.


my mum used to tell me-That made me smile-

My wife still trys to get me to only get the toys out that I am going to play with. It doesn't work!!


----------



## Brit

*Two Disston D8s - A Quick Progress Report*

Just wanted to post a quick video to show a Disston D8 that I sharpened today as a 7ppi rip saw with 5 degrees of rake. I've also included the Disston D8 from my last post which was filed 8ppi crosscut with 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam.


----------



## jjw5858

Brit said:


> *Two Disston D8s - A Quick Progress Report*
> 
> Just wanted to post a quick video to show a Disston D8 that I sharpened today as a 7ppi rip saw with 5 degrees of rake. I've also included the Disston D8 from my last post which was filed 8ppi crosscut with 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam.


Great video Andy, looks awesome and nice work on these Disstons! But your bench is so Roy Underhill and your saws….so Lie Nielson…..lmao!

Have fun my friend, great stuff!

Joe


----------



## BTKS

Brit said:


> *Two Disston D8s - A Quick Progress Report*
> 
> Just wanted to post a quick video to show a Disston D8 that I sharpened today as a 7ppi rip saw with 5 degrees of rake. I've also included the Disston D8 from my last post which was filed 8ppi crosscut with 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam.


Excellent sharpening and cutting. Makes me want to finally learn proper saw sharpening.


----------



## RGtools

Brit said:


> *Two Disston D8s - A Quick Progress Report*
> 
> Just wanted to post a quick video to show a Disston D8 that I sharpened today as a 7ppi rip saw with 5 degrees of rake. I've also included the Disston D8 from my last post which was filed 8ppi crosscut with 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam.


This was a very relaxing 3 minutes for me…I needed that after the day I had.


----------



## lysdexic

Brit said:


> *Two Disston D8s - A Quick Progress Report*
> 
> Just wanted to post a quick video to show a Disston D8 that I sharpened today as a 7ppi rip saw with 5 degrees of rake. I've also included the Disston D8 from my last post which was filed 8ppi crosscut with 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam.


Oh the sunshine!

Did you stain the handles? I look back through your blogs.

I have one critique, however. The two appear so similar ( stunning ) that they are easily confused. May I suggest some brightly colored duct tape on the handles to tell them apart.


----------



## rilanda

Brit said:


> *Two Disston D8s - A Quick Progress Report*
> 
> Just wanted to post a quick video to show a Disston D8 that I sharpened today as a 7ppi rip saw with 5 degrees of rake. I've also included the Disston D8 from my last post which was filed 8ppi crosscut with 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam.


Nice pair of saws Andy and very nicely renovated, well done. How did you find the experience of sharpening them, was it rewarding, I always used to find that cutting the first piece of timber after returning a saw to its rightful purpose a most rewarding experience.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Two Disston D8s - A Quick Progress Report*
> 
> Just wanted to post a quick video to show a Disston D8 that I sharpened today as a 7ppi rip saw with 5 degrees of rake. I've also included the Disston D8 from my last post which was filed 8ppi crosscut with 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam.


*Joe* - I like them both, so that's ok. )

*BTKS *- Do it. You won't regret it.

*Ryan *- Glad you felt chillaxed.

*Scott* - Yep sunshine. I'd forgotten what it felt like. If I remember correctly, the finish was two coats of BLO followed by two thin coats of oil-based varnish mixed with BLO and Pure Turpentine. Finally rubbed out with 0000 steel wool and clear paste wax.

*Bill* - I find it very rewarding. To date, I think I've sharpened eight saws. If I were to stop now, I doubt I would forget how to do it. It will be part of my regular tool maintenance from now on. You'll love the next one Bill.


----------



## stefang

Brit said:


> *Two Disston D8s - A Quick Progress Report*
> 
> Just wanted to post a quick video to show a Disston D8 that I sharpened today as a 7ppi rip saw with 5 degrees of rake. I've also included the Disston D8 from my last post which was filed 8ppi crosscut with 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam.


Excellent video Andy and that saw looks wonderful (and sharp). It is pretty obvious that the manufacturer took great pride in his product, and I'm sure they would be very happy to know that they are now collectables.. My only criticism is that old somewhat wobbly Workmate. I would rather use a low solid bench and hold the workpiece with my knee, that is, if my knee could take it, which it no longer can. Keep up the good work!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Two Disston D8s - A Quick Progress Report*
> 
> Just wanted to post a quick video to show a Disston D8 that I sharpened today as a 7ppi rip saw with 5 degrees of rake. I've also included the Disston D8 from my last post which was filed 8ppi crosscut with 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam.


*Mike* - I totally agree. A proper saw bench is in my future. I've designed it, now I just need to build it. The problem is, I need my saws to build the saw bench, then I can use my saw bench to build my portable workbench, then I can use my portable workbench to build my proper workbench and well…you see the problem. I'll get there eventually. )


----------



## alba

Brit said:


> *Two Disston D8s - A Quick Progress Report*
> 
> Just wanted to post a quick video to show a Disston D8 that I sharpened today as a 7ppi rip saw with 5 degrees of rake. I've also included the Disston D8 from my last post which was filed 8ppi crosscut with 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam.


Andy that takes me back.

Great video & series

When I used to rip I always used my wee stools

only 18" high, but that way I could put my knee

on to hold down and get my shoulder right above

I cant remember the last time I ripped by hand. 

It did keep me fit though.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Two Disston D8s - A Quick Progress Report*
> 
> Just wanted to post a quick video to show a Disston D8 that I sharpened today as a 7ppi rip saw with 5 degrees of rake. I've also included the Disston D8 from my last post which was filed 8ppi crosscut with 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam.


Thanks Jamie. I will be making a saw bench at some point. It will definitely make it easier to saw at the right angle and get over the cut properly, particularly when ripping.


----------



## lysdexic

Brit said:


> *Two Disston D8s - A Quick Progress Report*
> 
> Just wanted to post a quick video to show a Disston D8 that I sharpened today as a 7ppi rip saw with 5 degrees of rake. I've also included the Disston D8 from my last post which was filed 8ppi crosscut with 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam.


Thnaks for the reply Andy. I was curious as to a stain as the handles do not appear to be the apple wood that I am used to.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Two Disston D8s - A Quick Progress Report*
> 
> Just wanted to post a quick video to show a Disston D8 that I sharpened today as a 7ppi rip saw with 5 degrees of rake. I've also included the Disston D8 from my last post which was filed 8ppi crosscut with 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam.


*Scott* - The crosscut saw is apple, the rip saw is some other wood. I don't know what it is, but it is pretty plane looking.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Two Disston D8s - A Quick Progress Report*
> 
> Just wanted to post a quick video to show a Disston D8 that I sharpened today as a 7ppi rip saw with 5 degrees of rake. I've also included the Disston D8 from my last post which was filed 8ppi crosscut with 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam.


I missed this one, your rip through that pine like butta'. Did you set this saw up specifically for working pine?


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Two Disston D8s - A Quick Progress Report*
> 
> Just wanted to post a quick video to show a Disston D8 that I sharpened today as a 7ppi rip saw with 5 degrees of rake. I've also included the Disston D8 from my last post which was filed 8ppi crosscut with 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam.


*Mauricio* - No not specifically, but it seems to work well on pine. It is a dry piece of pine though. I think wet wood would require a bit more set.


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *Two Disston D8s - A Quick Progress Report*
> 
> Just wanted to post a quick video to show a Disston D8 that I sharpened today as a 7ppi rip saw with 5 degrees of rake. I've also included the Disston D8 from my last post which was filed 8ppi crosscut with 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam.


Brit that was a great show of you work in action. The saws are in fine condition. 
We were talking a bit back about your clamping on the workmate. The metal clamps were making me nervous. My friend Swirt has a method to use wooden handscrews. I have made a set and use them fairly often. Give them a look and see what you think. I believe they would give you less hazards and you could use them on your dog holes with the work mate. IMHO
http://lumberjocks.com/swirt/blog/16295
Nice post Andy.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Two Disston D8s - A Quick Progress Report*
> 
> Just wanted to post a quick video to show a Disston D8 that I sharpened today as a 7ppi rip saw with 5 degrees of rake. I've also included the Disston D8 from my last post which was filed 8ppi crosscut with 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam.


*Dave* - Thanks for the link, but I think I'm going to have to make a new portable workbench or buy another Workmate.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *Two Disston D8s - A Quick Progress Report*
> 
> Just wanted to post a quick video to show a Disston D8 that I sharpened today as a 7ppi rip saw with 5 degrees of rake. I've also included the Disston D8 from my last post which was filed 8ppi crosscut with 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam.


Lovely time spend in your company, thank you.
Beautiful saws and dust.
If you look carefully at the video you will see that you only use app. half of the teeths when sawing, so I think you need longer arms… Acually it will be a good idea to look at one self doing different things in the workshop, just like runners make videos to run better.
Enjoy the sun.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Two Disston D8s - A Quick Progress Report*
> 
> Just wanted to post a quick video to show a Disston D8 that I sharpened today as a 7ppi rip saw with 5 degrees of rake. I've also included the Disston D8 from my last post which was filed 8ppi crosscut with 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam.


*Mads* - That's because I only sharpened half the teeth. ) No seriously, I have spent years using short disposable saws and I need to practice getting the most out of a 26" hand saw. I was also being a bit cautious because of my wobbly Workmate. I don't think the Workmate could take the full thrust of these hand saws.


----------



## RGtools

Brit said:


> *Two Disston D8s - A Quick Progress Report*
> 
> Just wanted to post a quick video to show a Disston D8 that I sharpened today as a 7ppi rip saw with 5 degrees of rake. I've also included the Disston D8 from my last post which was filed 8ppi crosscut with 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam.


A good sawbench will take you about 3 hours. A top as high as your knee and 4 legs to hold it up (or 3 should you want to defy convention).

Just a thought. I know you have seen this before, but I wanted to add that it's holding up very well…one copmlaint, I should have put the heart side down so that when the top warped the cup would spread the legs out and make it more stable rather than the other way around.

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/64459


----------



## Brit

*Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*

This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.

This is how the saw looked when I received it.




































On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.

I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.

I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.



















One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.










This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.

Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.










It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.

Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.

The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )

Enjoy!


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Andy, your blogs are great, but you are missing the most import part of working with a handsaw. Its how you hold your mouth. It must be something like this!!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


I'd say if your pulling faces like that Don, then your're doing it wrong. LOL.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I actually find sawing by hand very therapeutic and relaxing. I'm not saying you won't work up a sweat sometimes but hey, what's wrong with that? I'd rather push a saw than run on a treadmill in some sweaty gym.


----------



## exelectrician

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


That video was great except I would have preferred if the background music was shut off during the cut, so I could hear for my self what a beautiful sound that old lady made going through her first cut in years. You are a lucky man getting such a nice saw on ebay, here in the US the saws are generally not so old and the really nice ones go for big money.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


I'm hoping as I get better at sharpening I acquire a taste for it. I don't mind sharpening planes, chisels, even chain saws, but there something about filing a saw I need to really motivate myself. At first I thought it was because I wasn't very good at it, but i think its the other way around. I suck because I hate it. I don't even like rip saws, and they are easy.


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Another fine job sir. The saw looks amazing. What is next, after you get them all ready? The bench build?


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


*exelectrician* - I do normally mix more of the recorded sound with the audio track so you can hear the saw, but today there was so much wind noise being picked up by the camcorder's microphone that I had to reduce the recorded sound more than normal. Not ideal I know, but you gotta do what you gotta do.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


*Shane* - I'm not sure yet.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Alright were cruising now! The progress is comming more quickly, another great restore!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


My new files arrived today, so I will get back to the backsaws tomorrow.


----------



## planepassion

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Wow…I feel like I just watched a porno movie…the good kind.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Wow, that's some serious tool porn. Nice stuff, Andy! You've got a fine saw, Congratulations!


----------



## barecycles

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Love it, love it!

I'm so glad that saw ended up in your possession and not somebody who might do this to it!!!


----------



## alba

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Andy that must be a pleasure to use.

*barecycles* not before breakfast, it spoiled

ma porridge,


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Thanks guys. The Oldies are the Goldies.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


*Jamie* - Billy Connolly used to say that his radio got covered in Museli every time 'Thought for the day' came on Radio 4. Sounds like you had a similar reaction and I can't say I blame you. Maybe we should start a *Free the Saws* movement and raid these peoples' houses. We could take secret undercover video to show their mistreatment of old saws. Just think, there could be a Panorama special. Questions might be asked in the House.

Ok, maybe not.


----------



## llwynog

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


I really love the shape of that handle.
I'd like to try one of these someday to feel the difference in hang.

Keep them coming


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


I took Exelectrician's advice and re-mixed the video so that you can hear more of the saw.


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Lying in bed this morning, watching yr video on me phone and the wife says, "what's that you're watching?". "Woodworking porn", was my reply! ;-)

Lovely saw Andy, nice that you re-dubbed the sound. You still managed to get the bloody pigeons on tho' :-(


----------



## hhhopks

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Thanks Andy.
Another great educational blog.
Surely, you are among the best experts on hand saw.

What files are you getting?


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


*John* - I don't mind the wood pigeons, it's the crows that I don't like.

*hhhopks* - They're made by Bahco. I get them from Workshopheaven.com.


----------



## jjw5858

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


These are really nice saws Andy. I hope these great blogs are inspiring new woodworkers to get fired up about trying to work with these fine handtools. I have an auction seller friend of mine (a real character) I normaly see on the weekends at our local auction. He says to me "Ok sawman, so how many panel saws can you fit into a nornal sized trash can?" I laughed and said…"I don't know". He goes "80, I used to get huge collections of these old panel saws from all over NJ from farms to garage sales and one time I had 3 trash cans full…..3, 80 packed trash cans of panel saws to sell to a guy who collected, cleaned and restored them!" I often wonder what rusty gold may have been in those trash cans? Great work Andy, enjoy the sawdust!

Joe


----------



## stefang

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Good stuff as always Andy. Keep Filing!


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Andy- I had a good day at a car boot fair last Sunday. I bought 5 saws. Here in various states of undress- The first, i bought, far right, (vertical) open handle 10" steel backed, marked Henry Fountain, Sheffield. pretty poor but nice shaped handle. 


When I was about to leave I came across a guy with a box (all 10") full of back saws that had come from a local technical college. They'd had a hard life but were £3 each. I bought 4 for £10 cos he was packing up to leave. 
They are:-
Two Spear & Jackson, brass backed saws, (marked 1&2)
One Mawhood Bros, brass backed, (far left, vertical). I'm nearly finished cleaning it up. I've only sanded &cleaned up the handle as it is very comfortable. Sadly the etching is not very clear. 
Lastly, a open handled, brass backed, WILFIN saw (bottom). Never heard of this make before? Did some research and found out they were tool merchants aka William Findlay (mainly engineering lathes) based in Side street, Newcastle upon Tyne. Similar to 'Cowell & Chapman' eh. I wish I'd picked up the other Wilfin's that were there. Doh!

The Spear & Jackson handles are awful but not beyond redemption-



The handle at the topright is a S&J but has been re- modelled (a touch of London pattern influence going on).

The other saws, both S&J are recent eBay purchases.

Sorry to hijack your thread, but you're the only person I know who would be in the slightest bit interested! Also it's all you're fault, you're a bad influence. LOL

Cheers,
John. 
P.s. let me know if the format is cropping off the images. I'm losing stuff to the right due to the advertising down the right hand side. :-(


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


*Mike* - You know I will. )

*John* - Nice haul. Sorry to be such a bad influence, well actually I'm not the least bit apologetic. LOL. The images are being cropped off on the righthand side by the way. I like what you did with that S&J handle, especially the scrolled lamb's tongue. Very nice indeed! Are you going to clean them up and move them on or do you intend to keep them?


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Andy- what sort of format are you using when posting then? I'm using photobucket, with my iPhone & iPad.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Andy…WOW! You are restoring and sharpening them so fast I'm having a hard time just keeping up with your blogs. 'Twas just a few weeks ago you were sitting on the kitchen floor bemoaning calves and cows…

Very impressive! 

And I think that S&J tote is one of the nicest I've ever seen…great job on the restore!

Hey, Johnny, great score over the weekend! I love the cleaned blade you have in progress…nice…you should share your skills with some of us other rusty saw junkies at: 
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/27984


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Ps. I'll probably keep them all after refurbishment. 
I'll have to make a decision on what tpi etc configuration I want first. I fancy dovetail saws from the Mawhood bros & the WILFIN.

Mawhood Bros.:-


WILFIN :-


The WILFIN handle has already been on the belt sander, this is what it looked like before:-


Cheers


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


*John* - I don't use Photobucket, I just click on the '*img*' button, browse to find my photo on my pc, click the upload button and then click the place in my text where I want the photo to be inserted. Then wait until it appears.
The photo can be in any file format.

*Terry* - I have this week off, so I'm trying to get a few done. I had to wait for some new files to arrive before I could continue with my backsaws, so I did three hand saws while I was waiting (SOOOO much easier). I received the new files today and the one I wanted to use first is useless. None of the three corners come to a point. I'm trying to file new teeth at 12tpi and I can't do it with the new file at all. VERY FRUSTRATING. Still a bit of lateral thinking and I came up with another way of doing it which seems to be working Ok. I'll tell more when I post the saw on the blog.


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Andy. That makes sense. Since I got the iPad I rarely use the laptop now. The upload button stays grey when using that procedure on the iPad, which is where the problem lies. Not to worry ill have to use the laptop!

Cheers


----------



## Kookaburra

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


That was a great education Andy - thank you. Especially about the angle of the handle to the blade - I never would have imagined. I think I noticed the saw smiling after you finished that cut!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Thanks *Kay*. I don't know if the saw was smiling, but I certainly was. I'm looking forward to reading your blog posts about your hand tool journey.


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Andy that is a wonderful saw. You have done it justice. Now in all of your reading have you found a reason for the nib at the end of the saw. Is it for sighting your cut? Or hanging the saw? I have always wondered about it. I believe there is a bit of mystery behind it.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Ah the old 'nib' debate again *Dave*.

These are the option that I've heard mentioned:


It was for ornamentation only.
It was for raking the sawdust out of a really deep cut. This option was banded about by Will's cigarette cards.




















It was for starting a cut. IMO this is rubbish. Why would you start a cut with a round blob of steel when you've got a row of razor sharp teeth on the opposite edge?
It was used for tying one end of a blade guard to the saw. I doubt this was the reason, but it is useful for this application.

Personally I believe what Disston say, that it was just ornamentation.


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Interesting. I have never heard Will's definition before. Thanks!


----------



## CharlesAuguste

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Andy, beautiful saw Looks like shes ready for another 100 years of service! you a southpaw!
And about the saw nib I think Wills smoking some funny stuff!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


*CharlesAuguste* - Thanks and yes I'm a left-hander. A few years ago though I taught myself to saw right-handed too which really comes in useful if you are predominantly a handtool woodworker. On long cuts your arm can get tired, so switching hands periodically can really help. It feels weird at first, but it isn't that difficult if you persevere.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Wonderful. Another beauty.

As always, thanks for sharing Andy.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.
> 
> This is how the saw looked when I received it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.
> 
> I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.
> 
> I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.
> 
> Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.
> 
> Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.
> 
> The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. )
> 
> Enjoy!


Thanks *Tony*.


----------



## Brit

*It's not me, it's the saw*

Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.



















This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.










It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.










Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.

So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.

Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.










Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.

Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.










So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.










I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.










After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.










After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.










I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.



















After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.










As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.

Laters Peeps.


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *It's not me, it's the saw*
> 
> Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.
> 
> So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.
> 
> Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.
> 
> Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
> By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.
> 
> Laters Peeps.


Well, at least all wasnt lost. How many times can one carry out these processes on a backsaw before its max depth of cut is a robust couple of milimeters?


----------



## SamuelP

Brit said:


> *It's not me, it's the saw*
> 
> Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.
> 
> So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.
> 
> Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.
> 
> Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
> By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.
> 
> Laters Peeps.


Wheres the hammer?


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *It's not me, it's the saw*
> 
> Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.
> 
> So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.
> 
> Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.
> 
> Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
> By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.
> 
> Laters Peeps.


Waste not want not. That is one sure good way to spend your afternoon.


----------



## planepassion

Brit said:


> *It's not me, it's the saw*
> 
> Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.
> 
> So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.
> 
> Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.
> 
> Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
> By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.
> 
> Laters Peeps.


Boy, I've had days like that Andy. I'll start on one project to be way laid by a dull iron, so I go to sharpen it and the glass plate I glue sandpaper to breaks, so I have to create a makeshift mdf honing surface, which…well, pretty soon I'm throwing some tender loins on the barbie with tongs in one hand and swirling a glass of red wine in the other…only to ask myself, in the words of the imortal song "How did I get here?"

I like your harvesting the wood from your yard to fashion a handle. That's like catching your own dinner. I look forward to seeing the brass head. I'll be making one too, to adjust the coffin smoother I rehabbed recently.


----------



## TDog

Brit said:


> *It's not me, it's the saw*
> 
> Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.
> 
> So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.
> 
> Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.
> 
> Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
> By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.
> 
> Laters Peeps.


very nice saw


----------



## AnthonyReed

Brit said:


> *It's not me, it's the saw*
> 
> Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.
> 
> So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.
> 
> Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.
> 
> Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
> By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.
> 
> Laters Peeps.


Nice turn around Andy. Big Joe will have his day yet.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Brit said:


> *It's not me, it's the saw*
> 
> Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.
> 
> So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.
> 
> Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.
> 
> Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
> By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.
> 
> Laters Peeps.


Big Joe, the Forbidden Fruit! That's an inspirational story, Andy, and I love it. And the distraction begat a hammer handle from the tree that never was… Amazing!

It is still so foreign to me (sorry for the weak pun) that trimming trees is a regulated activity. You couldn't plant one (the Davidia) without permit either? A tree in the pot wasn't worthy of protection, but man! hope none of the neighbors saw you with the shears and end up calling the authorities.  You'll have all kinds of incriminating evidence at the ole Workmate…

Thanks for the post, and Joe will Have His Day!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *It's not me, it's the saw*
> 
> Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.
> 
> So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.
> 
> Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.
> 
> Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
> By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.
> 
> Laters Peeps.


*Shane* - Luckily, lots of times.

*Sam* - I haven't made the brass hammer head yet.

*Dave* - It felt good to work some wood. Always makes me feel better. It was nice to use a different type of wood too. I doubt I'll ever see anymore Davidia wood, so it had to be done.

*Brad* - I found my adventures into saw sharpening to be a rollercoaster ride. One day it seems easy and I've done a saw in no time at all and the next day, I make stupid mistakes and it all goes pear-shaped.

*TDog* - Thanks.

*Tony* - Yes he will. I love this saw, which made my stupid errors all the more painful. It was a humbling experience.

*Smitty* - Yes you are allowed to plant new trees on your property, but once they are in the ground they automatically become protected and you would have to apply to the council to do anything further to them. Whilst they are still in the pot, they are not protected and you can do what you want to them.


----------



## murch

Brit said:


> *It's not me, it's the saw*
> 
> Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.
> 
> So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.
> 
> Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.
> 
> Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
> By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.
> 
> Laters Peeps.


Good blog Andy. Always an interesting read. There's going to be some celebrating in your house
when you finally get "Joe" sorted!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *It's not me, it's the saw*
> 
> Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.
> 
> So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.
> 
> Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.
> 
> Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
> By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.
> 
> Laters Peeps.


That there is *Murch*, that there is!


----------



## alba

Brit said:


> *It's not me, it's the saw*
> 
> Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.
> 
> So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.
> 
> Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.
> 
> Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
> By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.
> 
> Laters Peeps.


Thanks Andy a great start to my day

Perhaps not a cold one but the plant.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *It's not me, it's the saw*
> 
> Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.
> 
> So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.
> 
> Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.
> 
> Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
> By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.
> 
> Laters Peeps.


Andy that is a wonderful ? you have made, I really love it…
It will be good for ?
Look good at ?
Be so usefull when ?

So that must be a perfect way to spend a beautiful day, I can hear the sound of the plane making shaves.

Go and kiss your wife and thank her for the ?
After all it took your mind away from …. what was is… I forgot perhaps also a ?

Best of my talks here on a wonderful sunny day in Copenhagen,
Mads


----------



## llwynog

Brit said:


> *It's not me, it's the saw*
> 
> Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.
> 
> So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.
> 
> Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.
> 
> Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
> By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.
> 
> Laters Peeps.


Hi Andy,

I have a suggestion for you that might help lessening your woes with this particular saw.
As you probably know, French does not have neutral pronouns (no "it") so all objects have to be either male or female. It so happens that saws are female in French.
So, instead of calling this saw "Big Joe", you might want to call her "Jenny with a wonderful character".
You may very well notice a behavioral improvement. (Or you may not)

Cheers,


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *It's not me, it's the saw*
> 
> Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.
> 
> So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.
> 
> Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.
> 
> Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
> By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.
> 
> Laters Peeps.


Another excellent post, my friend, sorry to see ya on the kitchen floor again! bummer.

The problem is certainly NOT you…perhaps Fabrice has the solution…call her Big Jane.

Or maybe Big Intrepid Thing which Causes Headache?

no, no, that will make maters worse…


----------



## BrandonW

Brit said:


> *It's not me, it's the saw*
> 
> Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.
> 
> So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.
> 
> Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.
> 
> Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
> By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.
> 
> Laters Peeps.


Andy, have you considered building a big pot around the pine tree? That way when you trim it, you can claim that it was a potted plant, not one in the ground.

Great handle, by the way. It should make for a mighty fine hammer.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *It's not me, it's the saw*
> 
> Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.
> 
> So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.
> 
> Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.
> 
> Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
> By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.
> 
> Laters Peeps.


You know, I think my wife may have been responsible for my error in laying out the mortises on my workbench, she kept calling me inside to hang some picture frames. So, I know your pain.

Andy, what if this tree were to get sick and die? Would permission to cut it down be more easily granted? I may be able to help you with that, PM me….

Fabrice, LOL, Im not sure a female saw would be any more cooperative.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *It's not me, it's the saw*
> 
> Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.
> 
> So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.
> 
> Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.
> 
> Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
> By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.
> 
> Laters Peeps.


*Jamie* - You're welcome.

*Mads* - IT'S A HAMMER HANDLE, but it could also be a stick for beating cheeky Danes over the head.

*Fabrice & Terry* - Thanks for the laugh. I'm afraid that on this occasion though, it wasn't the saw, it was me.

*Brandon* - That is a great idea, but with a maximum fine of £20,000 for doing anything to the trees without permission, I don't think I'll risk it.

*Mauricio* - Believe me, I know all the tricks to kill a tree. The trouble is, so do the council. By the way, you're right when you said that you weren't sure a female saw would be any more cooperative, but it would explain a lot. )


----------



## jjw5858

Brit said:


> *It's not me, it's the saw*
> 
> Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.
> 
> So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.
> 
> Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.
> 
> Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
> By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.
> 
> Laters Peeps.


Great blog Andy, really enjoyed seeing the handle getting done too! No worries, I am sure you will find your way back to get that saw in shape! Great story and nice work.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *It's not me, it's the saw*
> 
> Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.
> 
> So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.
> 
> Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.
> 
> Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
> By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.
> 
> Laters Peeps.


Laughs, It's lovely.
Best thoughts.


----------



## lysdexic

Brit said:


> *It's not me, it's the saw*
> 
> Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.
> 
> So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.
> 
> Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.
> 
> Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
> By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.
> 
> Laters Peeps.


Andy, I really the Fabrice is onto something. Smitty may argue that you should not anthropomorphize your planes, but I understand saws, especially backsaws, love it.

When I hear stories of government controlling private property (when there is not a danger) it really raises my ire.


----------



## Brit

*W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*










*COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!










*BRIT*: Thanks John.

*COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?










*BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.

*COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?










*BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.

*COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?










*BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?

*COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?










*BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.

*COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


----------



## racerglen

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


Beauty Andy !
And congrats on taming the wild Big Joe !


----------



## Oldtool

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


I like your sense of humor, great video and write up. Now you need to make a display case for the gold medal.


----------



## planepassion

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


Dateline: Denver, August 3, 2012. The Denver Post

Today's Sawing Event favorite, Andy, began with a little stutter step to start, leaving him running tied with Alexov Krenov of Ukraine. But he quickly hit his stride to take the lead, finishing with a textbook, hold-the-waste move to smoothly finish the cut with NO tearout or splintering to win the gold. Krenov took silver, while the darkhorse South African, Johans (pronounced YO-han) Sebastian, captured the Bronze.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


Go Andy go…....................


----------



## Boatman53

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


Thanks Andy, well done, you do win gold!!!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


Haha. Congrats.


----------



## jjw5858

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


HAHAHAHA….Andy this is brilliant! Made my day for sure. Next ladies and gentleman Andy will be sharpening a pit saw in 10 minutes…...lol.

Really good stuff and glad you got that saw grooving again looks fantastic!

All the best,

Joe


----------



## Handtooler

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


I own a back saw by the same company model 120, 9-10" and 19-21 ppi or tpi I havew a hard time counting with such close small teeth. I bought it from Leichtung Co in about 1978-9. It was sold as a miter saw but I believe it to be a dove tail saw. Can any one tell me exactly what I've got and where it might stand in quality of saws? should I atempt to polish the plate to more of a mirror finish. It's rust free and as sold condition. probably needs a sharpening. Thanks for your remarks. Russell


----------



## rejo55

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


Hold on a second, folks… the judges are reviewing the tape and are seriously considering deducting points because they are of the opinion that, even though the program was well designed and the execution was flawless, Brit was guilty of an excessive display of enthusiasm. There is a distinct possibility that the Chinese might take gold, silver and bronze. Stay tuned…

Have a good'un
Joe


----------



## BrandonW

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


Congratulations, Andy. I'm a little bent out of shape because you ruined it for me (NBC has the coverage on tape-delay so I wasn't going to watch the event until this evening), but congrats anyways!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


*Glen* - It's been a long time coming.

*Oldtool* - I'll add one to my project list.

*Brad* - Nice reporting. Good news travels fast doesn't it?

*Don, Jim, Tony *- Thanks for your support. I had to get the Olympics in this blog somehow )

*Joe* - NOOOOO!!!! Not the pit saw.

*Handtooler* - Any chance you could post a photo. I restored and re-shaped the handle of a No.120 in Part 5 and sharpened it in Part 15 of this blog series. They are a decent saw, although I don't like the tote much personally.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


*rejo55* - That scenario is far too complicated for my dreams. These days I can barely remember my name when I wake up, let alone a complex plot like that. )

*Brandon* - Sorry to spoil it for you. You might as well spend the evening in your shop now.


----------



## Handtooler

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


Brit, Thanks for the reply. I was definitely in error, The number is 120 as stated, but the plate is 8 " long and it is 10 tpi with a thickness of 0.175 ". The tote as you point out in your blog has NO nib or separated lamb"s tongue. Tote looks of pretty cheap wood stained cherry. Your blogs sound like you have two different saws with a 120 number and mine is 120 and still different. so, what is the story? Any of their back saws is a 120??


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


*Handtooler* - No I only have one No.120 which is a 14". 10 tpi is very aggressive for an 8" saw plate. 8" makes it a dovetail saw and I would expect it to be 15 or 16 tpi.


----------



## barecycles

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


Re-living that winning cut gave me goose bumps, or maybe I'm coming down with something.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


hahaha, another great post Andy. How do you like this one with the steel back, any difference in performance/vibration vs the brass backed saws or is it just ascetics?


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


*barecycles* - I think you're coming down with something. Stay warm and don't come anywhere near me. )

*Mauricio* - It isn't the material of the spine that makes a difference, but the weight. Brass is heavier than steel. However, plate thickness, tooth geometry also play their part, so a lighter saw is not necessarily a slower saw.
I haven't used them enough yet to know what my preferences are for any of these parameters. I'm really looking forward to comparing them once they are all done. Actually, I'm still getting used to using a 14" saw. They feel very different to my Gramercy saws which are 12" and the lightest of the bunch.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


Another great post!!! AND a lovely saw! Congrats on finally overcomming this one…

Looking forward to your comparison very much…


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


Big Joe never saw you coming. (no pun intended) Good luck in Rio, rumor has it Big Joe will be looking for revenge, and is expected to show up in top form. Could be interesting…

Great post.


----------



## murch

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


Ha Ha Andy. Classic post. Enjoy the rest of the games. The only thing that will stop you retaining the gold
in Rio is if your arm locks up from signing autographs.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


*Terry, Shane* - Thanks guys. This post was a bit of a fun really, but I promise to have a bit more meat in the next one where I'm going to talk about combination/hybrid backsaws.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


*Murch* - That's hilarious. I'm loving the games so far. Very exciting, especially the indoor pursuit cycling.


----------



## stefang

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


Congrats on your Olympic gold medal Andy. It's great to see that some meaningful events are finally being included under the Olympic umbrella. Watch out though, I head a rumor that sawing might become a Heptathlon event and that Jessica Ennis is in saw training for Rio as we speak!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


In that case I'm screwed Mike. Time to retire from the sport I think.


----------



## hhhopks

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


I see you that you have cut through the block with very little effort.
Question: Where you using a very sharp saw, or have you been working out and developed incredibly biceps on your arm?????

A true champion always makes it look easy.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Thanks John.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: What does it mean to you to win gold today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRIT*: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.
> 
> *COMMENTATOR*: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…


hhhopks - Yep, very sharp saw my friend.


----------



## Brit

*What the heck is a sash saw?*

I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.

When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:

------------------------------------------------------

*Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*

Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:

"From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."

"We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."

"Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."

------------------------------------------------------

On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.

"Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."

"My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."

"Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."

In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:

"I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."

------------------------------------------------------

*Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.

In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."

Regarding plate thickness, he writes:

"I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."

"At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."

Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:

"…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."

------------------------------------------------------

Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.

Here's the information in tabular format:










In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.

I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.

I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?










This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.










In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?










Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.










So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.

In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.










Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


I am sure you will get it all figured out. Another fine looking saw, I probably agree you may not have a need for an all in one, or rip/crosscut saw. But, I might….hint, hint.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


there are times when I wonder if you are real, or some super hero in my corroded imagination. Even your lack of knowledge winds up increasing ours.

It took me a good 10 minutes to write this. I kept scrolling back up to look at that saw again. Super job.


----------



## Mosquito

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


I always feel like I learned too much whenever I read your blogs… like I need to un-learn something so that I don't feel bad…

And the saw is beautiful


----------



## tsangell

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


I've got a nice lightweight 14"er sharpened just about like the Grammercy saw, and I use it for all manner of small tenon cheeks and light crosscuts. It is very controllable and versatile.

If I had a second, heavy 14" saw, I would want it as a dedicated crosscut. I used a heavy LN 14" saw filed crosscut once, and it absolutely attacked the wood. One of the fastest, cleanest cutting saws I've handled. If you wanted a 14 inch tenon saw, I wouldn't fault you, either.


----------



## barecycles

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


I just want to echo Don W's post…I always learn a thing or two reading your blogs Andy.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


Thanks guys. I'm learning so much on my journey of discovery. I think I'm actually getting better at evaluating a saw's performance now and saying to myself "This would be better with a couple more degrees of rake" or "This would be sweeter with a less aggressive pitch". This makes me smile because I didn't just want to learn how to file saws. I wanted to have an appreciation of the effect of changing a saw's geometry.

Only two more backsaws to go now!


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


"Only two more backsaws to go now!"

But there is so much more for you to teach us (he says with a cynical smile)


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


Andy this interests me a lot. I have 2 sash planes and have successively used them. The British used a gambit of planes to make the sash, we used one. I was using Japanese saw to cut the open tenons. A pig sticker was needed for the mortice and your saw.

Andy thanks for the detail in your blog, most helpful. A man was well paid and considered a fine carpenter if he made good sash.
Good stuff Andy as always.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


Time to move on Don. The planes are beckoning. LOL.

Dave - I did read a couple of articles just to see what was involved in making sash windows and it is quite involved, especially working solely with hand tools.


----------



## jjw5858

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


Great blog Andy. A lot of in depth knowledge to learn more for sharpening and using saws. Now with all of this you continue to unleash your secrets of your next quest to place gold!....lol.

But heck I could of told you about sash! He was the guitar player in Guns and roses!

That was a horrible joke…...it's early though…....and they will only get worse…..lol.

Great stuff as always, take care!

Joe


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


Thanks Joe. Yeah that was pretty bad man. )


----------



## need2boat

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


Andy,

Another great blog on saws as always. Looking at the detailed data you put together is always impressive. I just finished a saw for Lace AKA dude and filed it 8R/10F which I find is a nice all round cutter. Anyway you look at it there has to be a winner and looser when trying to get both rip and cross out of a saw. It's just a matter of feeling and type of wood you'll be using.

keep it up!










Joe


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


Thanks Joe and you're right of course, you either favour a rip cut or a crosscut. Matt's 10 rake and 10 fleam is a great ripper, but I suspect Mark's 10 rake and 17.5 fleam will be a better crosscut at the expense of a slower rip cut.

BTW, great job you did on Lance's Marples & Sons. You've done that saw proud.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


Joe (need2boat) - What guage is the plate on Lance's saw? You did replace it right?


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


Another great blog and saw restore Andy. Thanks for posting this, like some of the others have said, its information overload for me right now but I enjoyed reading it and I will definitely refer back here next time I'm sharpening a saw.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


Mauricio - Confusion is the womb of learning don't forget. )


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


Andy, my saw plate was thicker than some people like for a sash saw but I thought the thicker plate would reduce the issue with heat. I believe the plate is .032 well that's what my calipers said before I started sanding the original Plate. I am very anxious to get my hands on the saw. I hope to make it my go to saw for a few reasons. I love the tote it is the best tote I have in my arsenal. I love the weight the big brass back is very heavy. I also love the hang angle. I have to tell you I was very bummed out when the original plate looked so rough. However when Joe said he could fix it for such a good price I was very happy. I will keep the original plate just in case it ever becomes worth a high price as original part of the saw. I love this saw I did the minute I found it on auction and the love grew when I held the saw. However it was dull as a bar of soap and it cut just like a bar of soap too. I hope that Joe is happy with it and We set it up to be my sash saw as I already have other saws to meet my needs in other areas. I am looking for two more just like this saw so I can do one rip and one cross. Here is the other shot Joe sent on the saw


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


Lance you've got a wonderful saw there now. I'm sure you'll enjoy using it.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


Wow, lovely eye candy this morning…

Andy, thanks for gathering all this data in one place, and adding your thought as well! The numbers in the table on rake anf fleam certainly don't agree with each other, but all seem to say AGGRESSIVE. I'm certain any of those saws mentioned would perform par excellence (pardon my french) in a master's hands…but it's good food for thought for us beginners!

BTW, Joe and Lance, congrats to both of ya for actually getting to touch that sweet Marples & Sons! Great job on the restore, Joe…I love the new plate with that vintage tote…


----------



## stefang

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


It sounds like you are well on your way towards mastering these saws Andy.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


I'm gaining confidence with every saw Mike. I think I've done enough now so that I won't forget it.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


I am reading Alex W Bealer's book "old ways of working wood" In it he says there was not a lot of texts on woodworking that taught the woodworker to care for saws. I thought to my self the saw books like Diston's saw book covered everything I know or I got it from Andy or Matt or Joe. I also am reading two old books that Matt told me to read. They are considered a must read if your a saw guy but I have them on pdf so the reading is slow. And I dont remember the authors names. In his book Alex says that saw care was passed around from craftsman to craftsman . I think its still that way thanks to Andy Matt and Joe.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


Once again good and interesting stuff Andy.
Best thoughts,
Mads


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


Well guys After a major screw up On my bench yesterday. I was forced to remake the outer leg assembly's This requires me to make several angled cuts for the half lap dovetail mortises. I was able to try out my new Sash saw for this set of cuts and so far its great I have been using a square to make sure I am holding the saw square and then I am cutting the corners first this is a key to keeping thins straight and aligned. The square trick is as old as the hills. Its the way Grandpa had me do it when I was just learning the reason I am doing it to help me regain mussel memory in the right plane to learn how the saw feels when it is aligned correctly.I have a tendency to grip the saw too hard causing the saw to tilt left. I am trying to eliminate extra chisel work squaring the mortice. After all I want to be a better sawyer not a better chiseler. Well guys I am heading back out into the Oven that is my shop. I need to get this bench back to where I was before I discovered the error.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


Glad you like your sash and are putting it to good use Lance. Looking forward to seeing your bench.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


Ok saw guys I have a question about my saw Here is what i have figured out. Hehn my saw is square it vears to the left but if i slightly tilt it left it stays straight in the groove and on the line. Joe sent me a way to fix the saw I can do it if I am sure the tracking error is the saw and not me I am not sure if its me or the saw and of coarse joe tested it and it was fine while it was in NY but out here on the left coast it is tilting left to go straight. Is my method valid for cause. I guess I could wait to make sure its not my shaky bench


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


Hey Andy how have you been I sent you a pm a while back and never heard from you on it I was hoping you could help me find some wood from England. I Purchased a new saw this week and I have to tell you it is the best thing I have ever seen It blows away any saw I have ever used I am having some trouble with my sawing and I am looking for a cure the lessons I got from Glen Drake may be the key to my success as a jointer. This saw has many cool things that you don't see every day Ill take some pictures of it and maybe a movie too if I can find my tripod.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


I'm fine, just working long hours so not much time for LJs at the moment. The last PM I have from you was sent 120 days ago and was entitled 'Till'. You were checking if I'd received the plans you sent through. Is that the message to which you refer? If so, I replied 119 days ago. Let me know if I've missed anything else.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


no Andy I sent you a pm I was asking for you to find me some wood I am looking for some hornbeam turning blanks large enough to turn some chisel totes about 6-8 quarter square I can send you the cash to ship and buy the wood if you can get it


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


once again I'm back using your blogs as a references Andy. Thanks again for a wonderful series.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


My pleasure Don. Just writing down what I learnt along the way. It's all about the journey. )


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


Hey andy did you ever change the fleam on this saw? If so, any verdict?


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


Stef - I didn't end up changing the fleam angle because in the next episode I sharpened a 12" Spear and Jackson with 10 degrees of rake and 17.5 degrees of fleam so that I could compare the two filings. Truth be told though, I didn't really like either of them. However when I recorded the video, I filed a little Disston D8 19" panel saw (10tpi I think) at 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam and I have used the heck out of that little saw since. It is my go to saw for cutting MDF and pine and seems to work well in hardwoods too. I rip and crosscut with it and it just works. Obviously it is better at cross cutting. It rips thin stock ok, but as you would expect is a bit slow on thicker stock. When I only want to use one saw, that is the saw I reach for.


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


Much appreciated on the information Andy. I was about set to file a saw for another LJ to 10 rake and 15 fleam as a hybrid filing but at 14 ppi I was a little worried about the performance as he'd like it mainly for cross cutting. I believe that ill give it 20 degrees of fleam provided I can it that file in between those little teeth. Again, thanks for your constant insight into the world of singing saws!


----------



## jacksson

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


The sash saw to which this forum refers may have been used for making window sashes; but the original water-powered sash saw was a large, *windowed* frame in which a *sash*, holding from one to several saws, was slid up and down vertically from a water-powered crank under the frame; logs were pushed through the saw bank on a rolling carriage. sash saws of this type were the go-to tool at riverfront saw mills until the advent of circular saw blades after the Civil War. (Modern old-house hunters look for the distinctive vertical saw marks on boards to estimate the age of historic buildings.)









I'm just an amateur historian. Just sayin'...


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *What the heck is a sash saw?*
> 
> I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.
> 
> When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)*
> 
> Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:
> 
> "From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."
> 
> "We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."
> 
> "Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On *The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci* recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.
> 
> "Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."
> 
> "My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."
> 
> "Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."
> 
> In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:
> 
> "I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks* wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.
> 
> In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."
> 
> Regarding plate thickness, he writes:
> 
> "I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."
> 
> "At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."
> 
> Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:
> 
> "…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.
> 
> Here's the information in tabular format:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.
> 
> I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.
> 
> I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.
> 
> In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading my inane drivel.


Thanks for sharing that Jacksson, I've never seen that graphic before or heard of your explanation so you've educated me.


----------



## Brit

*Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*

In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.



















Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.

If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.










Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!






It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )










Thanks for watching!


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


if I could only remember everything you say. I'd be a saw expert. I'm really more of a chainsaw guy anyhow.


----------



## stefang

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Only one way to find out for sure.


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Its just difficult to get past the pics…very distracting. They are just beauties, thanks for sharing.


----------



## jjw5858

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Man these saws are wonderful Andy. Thanks so much for taking time on keepng the handsaws alive and well with these really informative blogs. Great stuff indeed. I am not sure if you ever did watch the Woodrights Shop episode about the saws…lol. But when I watch it….I always think of my friend Andy…and think….omg..he would be gritting his teeth watching Roys sharpening approach…..lmao! Not that it is at all bad….it's just a complete different style compared to your tlc….lol.

Always enjoy the knowledge you share, thanks again Andy!

Joe


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Nice set of saws Andy. I think they both are keepers. In your next video a little narration would be cool


----------



## alba

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Andy, can I send you some saws to hone your

skills on? LoL

You are getting them real nice. Must be a

pleasure to use.

jamie


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


I can see the rain stopped.
Now the sun lights up your wonderful saws and you light us up with your visdom.
Thank you Andy.
Mads


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


I'm struggling to keep up myself, but it is fascinating. . I'm pleased you're doing it and not me cos my head would've exploded by now! Lol

I love my saws but a well tuned & setup bandsaw does the rest for me - just saying.

Again -Gorgeous saws. I was wondering where you are storing them now they are done? I've got 7 backsaws now that need storage/ till. So I'm guessing a till is next on yr list.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Yep, Andy, I think you've left us all behind…and progressed to a new level of saw masterdom! But, at least, you've provided beautiful photos for us to stare at. 

I have also wanted to see your current saw till…however temporary it may appear…any photos???


----------



## lysdexic

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Thanks for the information and video. I too am glad to see that you have some sunshine.

Although I am not internalizing the details of this blog. I am keenly interested in your conclusion about hybrid filing. I am not ready to start filing/sharpening myself yet but the Tyzack 14" back saw restoration is on the short list. I will send it off for sharpening and don't know what to request. It needs to compliment my current saws.

These are a LN progressive pitch DT saw that also doubles as a small tenon saw and the BA 12" x-cut saw.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Andy you are the saw master! I'm learning a lot here. I bought a saw the other day thinking of you, I need to post a picture…


----------



## lysdexic

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Yep, we all like to see pics.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


*Don* - I'm a chainsaw guy too. It's just one saw after another.

*Mike* - Very true and next time one of them needs sharpening, I'll give 15 degrees of fleam a go.

*Shane* - My pleasure.

*Joe* - I watched the preview but didn't go ahead an purchase the episode. I'm sure Roy knows what he's doing though.

*Lance* - I've thught about it, but usually adding narration makes the video difficult to edit. What I do is grab the camera, start filming and then cut out the boring bits to condense it into something which is ideally no more than about 4 minutes. If I was talking whilst filming, it becomes difficult to cut bits out. I don't spend much time on these videos at all, but they are a pain to upload to YouTube. 4 minutes of HD will take around 2 1/2 hours.

*Jamie* - I've got one more backsaw to do and then I need a break from them. On Sunday I got my saw vise out and jointed the last saw and picked up my file to start shaping the teeth. Then I thought, sod it I don't feel like it today, so I restored four old wooden spirit levels instead just for a bit of variation. )

*Mads* - The sun has been kind to me for the last couple of weeks, but I fear the rain is coming back now the Olympics have finished.

*John & Terry* - I bashed a nail into one of the roof beams and hung a bent metal coat hanger from it. The saws hang from the coat hanger. No expense spared. LOL.

*Scot* - I know it seems like I'm getting really anal about saw sharpening, but I can assure you I'm not. Once I've sharpened my last backsaw, I'm going to compare and contrast all these different rip, crosscut and combination filings and tell you what I think of them all. My conclusions might just surprise you.

*Mauricio* - Yeah lots of pictures that's what we want.


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Geez Andy, I don't know whether to laugh at that or cry? You're a philistine? But a talented one 

Cheers
John.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Only temporary John. I had to put them somewhere until the time comes.


----------



## Alexandre

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Andy, Do you mind sharpening my saw?


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


OK you are going to have to do a chart with this series. I am so bad with numbers I use a story stick to make one cut. Andy I am enjoying this series you are test driving other peoples theories. Well don and well written.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


AND the pictures are just so fine!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Paul Sellers wrote an article some time ago for Getwoodworking.com where he proposed another type of combination filing that beginners might find useful. Here is an extract from the text although once again, I recommend you take a look at the whole article.

"I'm sharpening this saw as a non-aggressive ripsaw, which means I can use it equally for crosscut and rip-cut. The pinnacle-point teeth we generally use on more refined crosscut saws is more complex to explain and understand, while the actual method is only marginally better when it comes to cutting the wood, and so the method outlined here is ideal for beginning woodworkers to master."

"For ripsaws, we file the teeth at 90° to the saw in both directions. *I position the top face of my three-cornered file so that it lies parallel to the top of my saw*. That will effectively cut my teeth so that the front and back of the teeth will be 30°. Oftentimes, people sharpen saws with a rip tooth, but put an aggressive, perpendicular face on the front of the teeth. This is fine for larger saws that we use for ripping along the grain, especially in boards where we have long lengths to rip and we are bearing down on the saw with full upper-body shoulder pressure and all of the cut results from the forward thrust of the saw. However, most joinery work uses smaller saws for short-length cuts, 12in or less, and comprises both rip and cross cut in the same joint. Because most if not all of the cuts are over a short distance, usually 1⁄2in to 4in long, it's more practical to compromise the perpendicular cut for a more hybrid pattern of sharpening above, rather than to use two saws. Another advantage is that this saw now cuts on both the forward and the backstroke, which compensates somewhat for any loss in not using the aggressive sharpening pattern."


----------



## DaddyZ

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Very nice !!!


----------



## Clouseau

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Do you have the three charts posted somewhere so I could save them as a pdf?
Dan


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Hi Dan,

I assume you're referring to the three tooth geometry charts I speak about in my saw sharpening video. If so, I have posted a link in the comments of Saw Talk #28 where I posted the video. It seemed more appropriate to post it there.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


I actually spent the last couple of shop days using my newly replated sash saw. I ripped and cross cut with her she did very well at both tasks I could not be happier. I think I made the right choice with a combination saw


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Did Matt replate it for you Lance?


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


No it was done by our friend in New York Andy I forget his name as I sit here but I need to send him a couple of saws. He did a great job I think his work was every bit as good as the work I have had done by Matt help me out with his name I need to get his address too so I can ship him these two miter saws


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Joe Federici is hs name Lance and his web site is secondchancesawworks.com. You can't go wrong with Joe.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared*
> 
> In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.
> 
> If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching!


Thanks Andy should send these off to him soon


----------



## Brit

*12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*

Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.



I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.

1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
2) The plate had a wave in it.



3) The spine was bent.
4) It was missing a split-nut.



5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.



The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.

When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.



This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.

Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.



I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.

I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.

After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.





















I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.

The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?

After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.







You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.

Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.

TTFN.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


Excellent Andy. You've got a dream set of saws, all of your own doing. You can't ask for more than that.


----------



## bhog

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


Alot of good info there Andy.I am going to have to read all your others sometime-I am usually late to the party.

I like your tool belt.Almost looks like occidental but I doubt it is.


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


Thank you Andy. Talented on many levels, both writing and teaching. Your journey has been a lot of fun to follow along.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


Thanks guys and yes the tool belt is made by Occidental Leather. All the way from the USA. It holds the items I tend to use a lot and was always losing. Now I don't.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


Saw sure looks purdy to me. looks better than most of the new saws sold today. i have to read your whole series since i'm about to do some saws myself.

Where's that purdy little combi square that's always in your pics?


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


Scot nicked it and posted it on the Measuring and Marking Tools thread. Seriously though, it had the day off. Anyhow, my little square is in metric.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


I think it is a really pretty saw!
It has charm.
Always a pleasure to follow your saw talk, I look forward to hear your conclutions.
Happy newyear and the best of my thoughts,
Mads


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


He is back! The tool belt is pretty fancy. Good to have the series back, like a premier after watching re-runs.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


Wow, Andy, now you've raised the bar to include pulling backs off of backsaws! Unbelievable and truly inspiring! Thanks for the words, wished you'd have taken some pics of yours in two pieces (not that I'm saying it didn't happen or anything..  )


----------



## Mosquito

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


if that's "not pretty" I'll take your "not pretty" any day…

It looks great


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


It's been way too long Andy!

Great info. Who says she's not a beauty! The pitting adds a little character and the handle is beautiful.


----------



## stefang

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


Great blog Andy and glad you're back. I will probably never use this interesting info, but just knowing about it makes me feel like a more knowledgeable woodworker. I find the historic aspect also very interesting.


----------



## alba

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


Great blog Andy
I've never seen a steel back saw before I live a sheltered life
I've still got a nice we saw that I was challenged with to bring
back to life. This will help a lot.
Jamie
Seasons Greetings fae up North


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


*Mads* - Happy New Year to you and yours too. I hope your new apartment is all you want it to be when you finally move in. It is always a pleasure to read your comments.

*Shane* - "Like a premier after watching re-runs" That made me laugh.

*Smitty* - You're right of course, I should have taken photos with the back off. Truth is, it just didn't enter my head. I guess I'm a bit rusty when it comes to blogging.

*Mos & Mauricio* - Thanks guys.

*Mike* - "…a more knowledgeable woodworker." I know what you mean. It is funny, but getting so intimate with all of these saws has led me to question a lot of what I'd previously taken for granted with regard to saws and sawing. I hope I can find the right words to convey what I want to say as I round off this series.

*Jamie* - Steel backs were very common in the US, less so in the UK. However, most of the big manufacturers offered steel as an alternative to brass. They tended to retail for a bit less too, which was a big consideration in days gone by when a saw cost over half their weekly wage. Here is an example of the variations offered by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner back in the 1920s. Note that the prices are shown in shillings per dozen.


----------



## jjw5858

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


Awesome saw stuff as always Andy. Those saws look terrific and that belt is really cool as well. Keep up with the great information and inspiring work!


----------



## planepassion

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


Yes, Andy, I have missed your posts. I figured work, familial and holiday obligations kept your active mind from the keyboard. It's good to see you back upon the page.

I think your restore of this saw came out quite well. And while she may have a few blemishes in your view, that lamb's-tongue handle is easy on the eyes.

Thanks for including links to the spine-work videos. That will be an invaluable resource to restorers everywhere. And so will your consolidated observations and conclusions in your coming posts. I look forward to them.

Andy buddy, you have to include a picture of yourself wearing that tool belt. Who ever would have thought you could be so styling


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


Thanks *Joe*.

*Brad* - This morning I was searching for a picture of something in Google when a photo of a saw caught my eye, so I clicked on the link. Lo and behold, it took me here. I started reading it and thought it sounded familiar, then I read the author's bio and realised it was your blog. Small world eh?

I'm sure the tool belt will feature in upcoming projects and blog posts. Stay tuned.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


By the way Joe, it is nice to see your smiling face in your new avatar


----------



## bhog

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


Ha!! I called it.I am a fan of Occidental's tool pouches.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


Me likey Bhog!


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


bhog, I have that exact pouch, except the belt is leather as well.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


Well slap me thrice and hand me to my momma. That's three of us with good taste.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


Me likey the OX too but i couldn't afford the good stuff when i needed a belt.


----------



## bhog

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


Nice.Don are you a lefty?

I got tired of buying 60-80 dollar rigs.If I woulda bought OX first I would probably be ahead 400 clams.


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


Loved it. Andy you do have a way with the blogs. Well done my friend and another good saw referral for the future.
Bravo!
*Plucked up the courage.*
Nice


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


Don are you a lefty?

No.

When I bought mine they were not as expensive as today. I couldn't believe the prices. I wore mine everyday for close to 10 years and its hardly broke in. My son took it for a while, but eventually bought his own so I got it back.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


And I still have a bunch of saws hanging here laughing at me… 
Soon so soon…
I hope.
Smiles,
Mads


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


You've got to have a go Mads, it is incredibly satisfying. There is nothing like using a freshly sharpened saw that you've just sharpened yourself.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


I have no doubt, just no time these days…
When life slows down on me again I will dig in.
;-)


----------



## DaddyZ

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


Very Nice Explanation !!!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


Thanks Pat.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


The wealth of information you have complied for us , by itself, is staggering. Coupled with your own findings and exceptional documentation, your blogs are a tremendous reference source for any that venture into saw restoration / sharpening.

Thank you very much for all your work Andy.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back*
> 
> Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.
> 
> 1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
> 2) The plate had a wave in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3) The spine was bent.
> 4) It was missing a split-nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
> 6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.
> 
> 
> 
> The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.
> 
> When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.
> 
> 
> 
> This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.
> 
> Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.
> 
> I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
> Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.
> 
> After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.
> 
> The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. *HOORAH!* Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?
> 
> After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.
> 
> Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.
> 
> TTFN.


Thanks Tony.


----------



## Brit

*What's taking me so long to finish this blog series...?*

... In a word - INDECISION.

I've been thinking a lot about the best way to bring this Saw Talk blog series to a close and I've now decided that I'm going to do two more posts.

In the next post I will share what I've learnt and some conclusions I've come to regarding sharpening saws. The final episode will take me a bit longer however, because I would like to post an in-depth video tutorial on saw sharpening. It will be quite long because I want to show both the theory and a number of practical examples/alternative approaches. To my knowledge there isn't anything like what I have in mind, offered for free on the web.

I want to go to the trouble of making this video for the following two reasons:


I feel as though I've learnt so much that it would be wrong of me not to share it with the rest of you guys.
The more I've learnt about saws and saw sharpening, the more passionate I have become about wanting to keep the art alive.

As I said, you might have to bear with me for a bit while I prepare, film and edit the video, but I promise it will be worth the wait.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *What's taking me so long to finish this blog series...?*
> 
> ... In a word - INDECISION.
> 
> I've been thinking a lot about the best way to bring this Saw Talk blog series to a close and I've now decided that I'm going to do two more posts.
> 
> In the next post I will share what I've learnt and some conclusions I've come to regarding sharpening saws. The final episode will take me a bit longer however, because I would like to post an in-depth video tutorial on saw sharpening. It will be quite long because I want to show both the theory and a number of practical examples/alternative approaches. To my knowledge there isn't anything like what I have in mind, offered for free on the web.
> 
> I want to go to the trouble of making this video for the following two reasons:
> 
> 
> I feel as though I've learnt so much that it would be wrong of me not to share it with the rest of you guys.
> The more I've learnt about saws and saw sharpening, the more passionate I have become about wanting to keep the art alive.
> 
> As I said, you might have to bear with me for a bit while I prepare, film and edit the video, but I promise it will be worth the wait.


sweeeet!!


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *What's taking me so long to finish this blog series...?*
> 
> ... In a word - INDECISION.
> 
> I've been thinking a lot about the best way to bring this Saw Talk blog series to a close and I've now decided that I'm going to do two more posts.
> 
> In the next post I will share what I've learnt and some conclusions I've come to regarding sharpening saws. The final episode will take me a bit longer however, because I would like to post an in-depth video tutorial on saw sharpening. It will be quite long because I want to show both the theory and a number of practical examples/alternative approaches. To my knowledge there isn't anything like what I have in mind, offered for free on the web.
> 
> I want to go to the trouble of making this video for the following two reasons:
> 
> 
> I feel as though I've learnt so much that it would be wrong of me not to share it with the rest of you guys.
> The more I've learnt about saws and saw sharpening, the more passionate I have become about wanting to keep the art alive.
> 
> As I said, you might have to bear with me for a bit while I prepare, film and edit the video, but I promise it will be worth the wait.


Andy, the final installment should have a give away of one of your restored saws to one of your loyal blog followers (of course I am talking about giving the saw to me)....that is what I think. It has been good to follow, mostly over my head, but great reading none the less.


----------



## CL810

Brit said:


> *What's taking me so long to finish this blog series...?*
> 
> ... In a word - INDECISION.
> 
> I've been thinking a lot about the best way to bring this Saw Talk blog series to a close and I've now decided that I'm going to do two more posts.
> 
> In the next post I will share what I've learnt and some conclusions I've come to regarding sharpening saws. The final episode will take me a bit longer however, because I would like to post an in-depth video tutorial on saw sharpening. It will be quite long because I want to show both the theory and a number of practical examples/alternative approaches. To my knowledge there isn't anything like what I have in mind, offered for free on the web.
> 
> I want to go to the trouble of making this video for the following two reasons:
> 
> 
> I feel as though I've learnt so much that it would be wrong of me not to share it with the rest of you guys.
> The more I've learnt about saws and saw sharpening, the more passionate I have become about wanting to keep the art alive.
> 
> As I said, you might have to bear with me for a bit while I prepare, film and edit the video, but I promise it will be worth the wait.


Thanks in advance Andy! Will there be a final exam?


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *What's taking me so long to finish this blog series...?*
> 
> ... In a word - INDECISION.
> 
> I've been thinking a lot about the best way to bring this Saw Talk blog series to a close and I've now decided that I'm going to do two more posts.
> 
> In the next post I will share what I've learnt and some conclusions I've come to regarding sharpening saws. The final episode will take me a bit longer however, because I would like to post an in-depth video tutorial on saw sharpening. It will be quite long because I want to show both the theory and a number of practical examples/alternative approaches. To my knowledge there isn't anything like what I have in mind, offered for free on the web.
> 
> I want to go to the trouble of making this video for the following two reasons:
> 
> 
> I feel as though I've learnt so much that it would be wrong of me not to share it with the rest of you guys.
> The more I've learnt about saws and saw sharpening, the more passionate I have become about wanting to keep the art alive.
> 
> As I said, you might have to bear with me for a bit while I prepare, film and edit the video, but I promise it will be worth the wait.


Good things are worth waiting for. Thank you Andy! Cant wait to see it!


----------



## stefang

Brit said:


> *What's taking me so long to finish this blog series...?*
> 
> ... In a word - INDECISION.
> 
> I've been thinking a lot about the best way to bring this Saw Talk blog series to a close and I've now decided that I'm going to do two more posts.
> 
> In the next post I will share what I've learnt and some conclusions I've come to regarding sharpening saws. The final episode will take me a bit longer however, because I would like to post an in-depth video tutorial on saw sharpening. It will be quite long because I want to show both the theory and a number of practical examples/alternative approaches. To my knowledge there isn't anything like what I have in mind, offered for free on the web.
> 
> I want to go to the trouble of making this video for the following two reasons:
> 
> 
> I feel as though I've learnt so much that it would be wrong of me not to share it with the rest of you guys.
> The more I've learnt about saws and saw sharpening, the more passionate I have become about wanting to keep the art alive.
> 
> As I said, you might have to bear with me for a bit while I prepare, film and edit the video, but I promise it will be worth the wait.


Looking forward to it Andy!


----------



## murch

Brit said:


> *What's taking me so long to finish this blog series...?*
> 
> ... In a word - INDECISION.
> 
> I've been thinking a lot about the best way to bring this Saw Talk blog series to a close and I've now decided that I'm going to do two more posts.
> 
> In the next post I will share what I've learnt and some conclusions I've come to regarding sharpening saws. The final episode will take me a bit longer however, because I would like to post an in-depth video tutorial on saw sharpening. It will be quite long because I want to show both the theory and a number of practical examples/alternative approaches. To my knowledge there isn't anything like what I have in mind, offered for free on the web.
> 
> I want to go to the trouble of making this video for the following two reasons:
> 
> 
> I feel as though I've learnt so much that it would be wrong of me not to share it with the rest of you guys.
> The more I've learnt about saws and saw sharpening, the more passionate I have become about wanting to keep the art alive.
> 
> As I said, you might have to bear with me for a bit while I prepare, film and edit the video, but I promise it will be worth the wait.


Andy - your blogs, and the attention to detail in them, are legendary. Keep them coming.


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *What's taking me so long to finish this blog series...?*
> 
> ... In a word - INDECISION.
> 
> I've been thinking a lot about the best way to bring this Saw Talk blog series to a close and I've now decided that I'm going to do two more posts.
> 
> In the next post I will share what I've learnt and some conclusions I've come to regarding sharpening saws. The final episode will take me a bit longer however, because I would like to post an in-depth video tutorial on saw sharpening. It will be quite long because I want to show both the theory and a number of practical examples/alternative approaches. To my knowledge there isn't anything like what I have in mind, offered for free on the web.
> 
> I want to go to the trouble of making this video for the following two reasons:
> 
> 
> I feel as though I've learnt so much that it would be wrong of me not to share it with the rest of you guys.
> The more I've learnt about saws and saw sharpening, the more passionate I have become about wanting to keep the art alive.
> 
> As I said, you might have to bear with me for a bit while I prepare, film and edit the video, but I promise it will be worth the wait.


Ill have my popcorn ready and notebook handy when the video comes out. I might even wire it up to the big screen at the house. Just gotta make sure the wife isnt around, i wouldnt want her falling in love. She's got a thing for the accent, i guess


----------



## jjw5858

Brit said:


> *What's taking me so long to finish this blog series...?*
> 
> ... In a word - INDECISION.
> 
> I've been thinking a lot about the best way to bring this Saw Talk blog series to a close and I've now decided that I'm going to do two more posts.
> 
> In the next post I will share what I've learnt and some conclusions I've come to regarding sharpening saws. The final episode will take me a bit longer however, because I would like to post an in-depth video tutorial on saw sharpening. It will be quite long because I want to show both the theory and a number of practical examples/alternative approaches. To my knowledge there isn't anything like what I have in mind, offered for free on the web.
> 
> I want to go to the trouble of making this video for the following two reasons:
> 
> 
> I feel as though I've learnt so much that it would be wrong of me not to share it with the rest of you guys.
> The more I've learnt about saws and saw sharpening, the more passionate I have become about wanting to keep the art alive.
> 
> As I said, you might have to bear with me for a bit while I prepare, film and edit the video, but I promise it will be worth the wait.


This sounds great Andy! I am sure it will be extremely helpful to any of us hand sawyers. Great information as always.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *What's taking me so long to finish this blog series...?*
> 
> ... In a word - INDECISION.
> 
> I've been thinking a lot about the best way to bring this Saw Talk blog series to a close and I've now decided that I'm going to do two more posts.
> 
> In the next post I will share what I've learnt and some conclusions I've come to regarding sharpening saws. The final episode will take me a bit longer however, because I would like to post an in-depth video tutorial on saw sharpening. It will be quite long because I want to show both the theory and a number of practical examples/alternative approaches. To my knowledge there isn't anything like what I have in mind, offered for free on the web.
> 
> I want to go to the trouble of making this video for the following two reasons:
> 
> 
> I feel as though I've learnt so much that it would be wrong of me not to share it with the rest of you guys.
> The more I've learnt about saws and saw sharpening, the more passionate I have become about wanting to keep the art alive.
> 
> As I said, you might have to bear with me for a bit while I prepare, film and edit the video, but I promise it will be worth the wait.


Thanks guys. The main reason I wrote this interim post was that by putting it in black and white I'm committing myself to do it. To be perfectly honest I had been selfishly thinking "Why the hell should I put myself out and go to all that trouble", but now there's no going back. I'm sure it will be good for me anyhow. Just hope the weather warms up a bit soon so I can get started.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *What's taking me so long to finish this blog series...?*
> 
> ... In a word - INDECISION.
> 
> I've been thinking a lot about the best way to bring this Saw Talk blog series to a close and I've now decided that I'm going to do two more posts.
> 
> In the next post I will share what I've learnt and some conclusions I've come to regarding sharpening saws. The final episode will take me a bit longer however, because I would like to post an in-depth video tutorial on saw sharpening. It will be quite long because I want to show both the theory and a number of practical examples/alternative approaches. To my knowledge there isn't anything like what I have in mind, offered for free on the web.
> 
> I want to go to the trouble of making this video for the following two reasons:
> 
> 
> I feel as though I've learnt so much that it would be wrong of me not to share it with the rest of you guys.
> The more I've learnt about saws and saw sharpening, the more passionate I have become about wanting to keep the art alive.
> 
> As I said, you might have to bear with me for a bit while I prepare, film and edit the video, but I promise it will be worth the wait.


On the plus side, it does give me an excuse to buy another saw with crappy teeth so I can show how to put them right. )


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *What's taking me so long to finish this blog series...?*
> 
> ... In a word - INDECISION.
> 
> I've been thinking a lot about the best way to bring this Saw Talk blog series to a close and I've now decided that I'm going to do two more posts.
> 
> In the next post I will share what I've learnt and some conclusions I've come to regarding sharpening saws. The final episode will take me a bit longer however, because I would like to post an in-depth video tutorial on saw sharpening. It will be quite long because I want to show both the theory and a number of practical examples/alternative approaches. To my knowledge there isn't anything like what I have in mind, offered for free on the web.
> 
> I want to go to the trouble of making this video for the following two reasons:
> 
> 
> I feel as though I've learnt so much that it would be wrong of me not to share it with the rest of you guys.
> The more I've learnt about saws and saw sharpening, the more passionate I have become about wanting to keep the art alive.
> 
> As I said, you might have to bear with me for a bit while I prepare, film and edit the video, but I promise it will be worth the wait.


Awesome news…although I hate to see this series end! You have shared so much knowledge, and brought info on saws together in one easy place to find! Thanks for teaching yourself…and us! 

I love your reason #2 for this work…YOU and the gang, have certainly inspired me to seek out forgotten old tools and show them love! You've also infected me with a passion for vintage hand saws. To me, it's an honor to even handle my circa 1890 Harvey Peace P37, or c.1870 T. Shelton & Sons brass backsaw, or a 'common' c.1917 Disston steel backsaw. And you can bet I'll cross cut my bench top to length with Mr Peace instead of a power tool! NOT to prove anything at all…just for a few minutes of enjoyment listening to a long lost saw singing his way through wood fibres. ...love it…

Thank you, Andy! You da' man!


----------



## llwynog

Brit said:


> *What's taking me so long to finish this blog series...?*
> 
> ... In a word - INDECISION.
> 
> I've been thinking a lot about the best way to bring this Saw Talk blog series to a close and I've now decided that I'm going to do two more posts.
> 
> In the next post I will share what I've learnt and some conclusions I've come to regarding sharpening saws. The final episode will take me a bit longer however, because I would like to post an in-depth video tutorial on saw sharpening. It will be quite long because I want to show both the theory and a number of practical examples/alternative approaches. To my knowledge there isn't anything like what I have in mind, offered for free on the web.
> 
> I want to go to the trouble of making this video for the following two reasons:
> 
> 
> I feel as though I've learnt so much that it would be wrong of me not to share it with the rest of you guys.
> The more I've learnt about saws and saw sharpening, the more passionate I have become about wanting to keep the art alive.
> 
> As I said, you might have to bear with me for a bit while I prepare, film and edit the video, but I promise it will be worth the wait.


Andy,
The series so far has been excellent. I am really looking forward to this next post now that you've had our mouths watering.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Brit said:


> *What's taking me so long to finish this blog series...?*
> 
> ... In a word - INDECISION.
> 
> I've been thinking a lot about the best way to bring this Saw Talk blog series to a close and I've now decided that I'm going to do two more posts.
> 
> In the next post I will share what I've learnt and some conclusions I've come to regarding sharpening saws. The final episode will take me a bit longer however, because I would like to post an in-depth video tutorial on saw sharpening. It will be quite long because I want to show both the theory and a number of practical examples/alternative approaches. To my knowledge there isn't anything like what I have in mind, offered for free on the web.
> 
> I want to go to the trouble of making this video for the following two reasons:
> 
> 
> I feel as though I've learnt so much that it would be wrong of me not to share it with the rest of you guys.
> The more I've learnt about saws and saw sharpening, the more passionate I have become about wanting to keep the art alive.
> 
> As I said, you might have to bear with me for a bit while I prepare, film and edit the video, but I promise it will be worth the wait.


Thank you Andy.


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *What's taking me so long to finish this blog series...?*
> 
> ... In a word - INDECISION.
> 
> I've been thinking a lot about the best way to bring this Saw Talk blog series to a close and I've now decided that I'm going to do two more posts.
> 
> In the next post I will share what I've learnt and some conclusions I've come to regarding sharpening saws. The final episode will take me a bit longer however, because I would like to post an in-depth video tutorial on saw sharpening. It will be quite long because I want to show both the theory and a number of practical examples/alternative approaches. To my knowledge there isn't anything like what I have in mind, offered for free on the web.
> 
> I want to go to the trouble of making this video for the following two reasons:
> 
> 
> I feel as though I've learnt so much that it would be wrong of me not to share it with the rest of you guys.
> The more I've learnt about saws and saw sharpening, the more passionate I have become about wanting to keep the art alive.
> 
> As I said, you might have to bear with me for a bit while I prepare, film and edit the video, but I promise it will be worth the wait.


I love video's, Andy just don't do that weird eyeball thing. That was kinda freaky! JK
Andy we await the masterpiece.


----------



## DLCW

Brit said:


> *What's taking me so long to finish this blog series...?*
> 
> ... In a word - INDECISION.
> 
> I've been thinking a lot about the best way to bring this Saw Talk blog series to a close and I've now decided that I'm going to do two more posts.
> 
> In the next post I will share what I've learnt and some conclusions I've come to regarding sharpening saws. The final episode will take me a bit longer however, because I would like to post an in-depth video tutorial on saw sharpening. It will be quite long because I want to show both the theory and a number of practical examples/alternative approaches. To my knowledge there isn't anything like what I have in mind, offered for free on the web.
> 
> I want to go to the trouble of making this video for the following two reasons:
> 
> 
> I feel as though I've learnt so much that it would be wrong of me not to share it with the rest of you guys.
> The more I've learnt about saws and saw sharpening, the more passionate I have become about wanting to keep the art alive.
> 
> As I said, you might have to bear with me for a bit while I prepare, film and edit the video, but I promise it will be worth the wait.


Just remember - INDECISION is the key to flexibility.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *What's taking me so long to finish this blog series...?*
> 
> ... In a word - INDECISION.
> 
> I've been thinking a lot about the best way to bring this Saw Talk blog series to a close and I've now decided that I'm going to do two more posts.
> 
> In the next post I will share what I've learnt and some conclusions I've come to regarding sharpening saws. The final episode will take me a bit longer however, because I would like to post an in-depth video tutorial on saw sharpening. It will be quite long because I want to show both the theory and a number of practical examples/alternative approaches. To my knowledge there isn't anything like what I have in mind, offered for free on the web.
> 
> I want to go to the trouble of making this video for the following two reasons:
> 
> 
> I feel as though I've learnt so much that it would be wrong of me not to share it with the rest of you guys.
> The more I've learnt about saws and saw sharpening, the more passionate I have become about wanting to keep the art alive.
> 
> As I said, you might have to bear with me for a bit while I prepare, film and edit the video, but I promise it will be worth the wait.


Thanks guys. The support of folks like you means a lot.


----------



## thedude50

Brit said:


> *What's taking me so long to finish this blog series...?*
> 
> ... In a word - INDECISION.
> 
> I've been thinking a lot about the best way to bring this Saw Talk blog series to a close and I've now decided that I'm going to do two more posts.
> 
> In the next post I will share what I've learnt and some conclusions I've come to regarding sharpening saws. The final episode will take me a bit longer however, because I would like to post an in-depth video tutorial on saw sharpening. It will be quite long because I want to show both the theory and a number of practical examples/alternative approaches. To my knowledge there isn't anything like what I have in mind, offered for free on the web.
> 
> I want to go to the trouble of making this video for the following two reasons:
> 
> 
> I feel as though I've learnt so much that it would be wrong of me not to share it with the rest of you guys.
> The more I've learnt about saws and saw sharpening, the more passionate I have become about wanting to keep the art alive.
> 
> As I said, you might have to bear with me for a bit while I prepare, film and edit the video, but I promise it will be worth the wait.


I cant wait for the video I learn better from videos and lectures than from reading.


----------



## JoeinGa

Brit said:


> *What's taking me so long to finish this blog series...?*
> 
> ... In a word - INDECISION.
> 
> I've been thinking a lot about the best way to bring this Saw Talk blog series to a close and I've now decided that I'm going to do two more posts.
> 
> In the next post I will share what I've learnt and some conclusions I've come to regarding sharpening saws. The final episode will take me a bit longer however, because I would like to post an in-depth video tutorial on saw sharpening. It will be quite long because I want to show both the theory and a number of practical examples/alternative approaches. To my knowledge there isn't anything like what I have in mind, offered for free on the web.
> 
> I want to go to the trouble of making this video for the following two reasons:
> 
> 
> I feel as though I've learnt so much that it would be wrong of me not to share it with the rest of you guys.
> The more I've learnt about saws and saw sharpening, the more passionate I have become about wanting to keep the art alive.
> 
> As I said, you might have to bear with me for a bit while I prepare, film and edit the video, but I promise it will be worth the wait.


Cl810 said, "Thanks in advance Andy! Will there be a final exam?"

Geeze I hope not. I was always terrible at math


----------



## Brit

*So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*

When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.

I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:

"Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."

Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.

I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:

How to clean up a saw plate.
How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
How to straighten a wavy saw plate
How to straighten a bent saw back
How to select the right file for the number of teeth
How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
How to correct various sharpening problems
How to reduce the set on a saw
How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.

Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:

I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.

I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.

*NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.

*Rant On…*

*Opinion No.1*
Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

*Opinion No.2*
Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:

"I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
"I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
"The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
"I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"

Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.

*Opinion No.3*
The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:

1) Sharp teeth.
2) A straight toothline.
3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
4) Rake.
5) Fleam.
6) Slope

I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.

Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.

Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.

*Opinion No.4*
Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.

*Opinion No.5*
Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.

*Opinion No.6*
Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.

*…Rant Off*

Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.

Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.

*Rip Backsaws*
0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.

*Crosscut Backsaws*
15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.

I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.

In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.

I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.

I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).







So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*

The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


----------



## PurpLev

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


Amen!

I think the same opinion/notices/experience applies to most anything woodworking - hand planes, chisels, gauging, joinery, etc. Its just that with some elements the side effects can be more easily discarded and hidden than with others and those can can't be hidden are usually put aside as "this doesn't work"


----------



## toeachhisown (Eddie)

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


thanks very informative look foward to the video


----------



## JR45

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


The last in a definitive guide - many thanks for sharing your experience and experiences.
Jim


----------



## jjw5858

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


Fantastic work Andy. I think it is great you are helping to keep this very meaningful art alive. I myself have sharpened a few panel saws and they have improved the performance just with a few beginner filings. It does take some practice but it is a very worthwhile skill to learn and an easier task than so many people think it is.

I know learning form both this blog and Paul Sellers how really gratifying it was to touch up my first panel saw and to test and see just how easier it cut. Also the fact that the same saw was purchased at an auction for only 5 dollars and once I cleaned and cared for it I now had a wonderful user!

Thanks for all of this knowledge and time!

Keep making saw dust!

Joe


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


Just one more great addition to an otherwise very informative series. Thanks Andy!!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


Thanks guys. I'm itching to get on with the video. Just need a sunny day and I'm there.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


OK…OK…I am ordering saw files.

Andy, thanks for sharing all your research! Lovely set of saws!!!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


*Terry* - I predict you will become an excellent saw sharpener. Anyone who has the dogged determination to put up all those fence posts, knap their own flint arrowheads and hand make the shafts, definitely has what it takes. For you my friend, it will be a walk in the park.


----------



## planepassion

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


Very nice Andy. I especially like the opinion statements. You've put together one of the most stunning backsaw nests out there. Beauty shots always welcome. Looking forward to the coming videos.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


Thanks *Brad*. Just spouting off. Who would have thunk it? A year ago, I had minimal experience with backsaws and now I have an opinion. Dangerous.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


*AND* a beautiful set of back saws


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


WOW. Andy that was good.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


*Don* - Thanks. They are pretty sweet aren't they? The 10" Garlick & Sons will be a nice addition. I was a bit concerned because the seller said it had a loose handle, but a quarter turn on one of the nuts soon put that right. The handle feels great and the hang angle is very similar to my Gramercy dovetails saw which I love.

*Dave* - It was a lot of work sanding all those saw plates when I think back to it, but the sore arms are soon forgotten when you see them all laid out ready for action.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


Regarding Opinion No.6 - I just found out that Vallorbe files are actually made by Grobet. Hopefully they are the same files as you guys get in the US and Canada. If so, I don't know why they are marketed under a different name here in Europe. When I eventually get my set of Grobet files from Veritas, I'll order some Vallorbe files from a supplier in the UK and do a comparison.


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


Andy the inquiring minds want to know. Now that you have conquered the saw, whats next?


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


Well Dave, I'm going to have a break from blogging and just do some woodworking. I've designed a big folding sawbench with a difference that I'm just going to go ahead and build, then post as a project. Don't ask me what the difference is, because my lips are sealed until the unveiling.

Then I'll use my saws and my sawbench to build a travelling workbench, which I've also designed. I'm collecting bits to make a couple of vises at the moment.

I also currently have three hand drills in bits at the moment. A MF 1980, a MF No.2B and a smaller German made hand drill. They'll get a good clean and a re-spray and their tolerances tightened up a bit. I still have a couple of panel saws and three hand saws to restore and sharpen and a lovely Scotch brace.

Oh yeah and I musn't forget the 6 mahongany internal doors that I have to put a couple of coats of finish on. :-(

That should keep me out of mischief for a while.


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


I await the bench. I bet it will be something we will all enjoy seeing you use.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


Ditto on the bench.


----------



## kenn

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


Thanks for this whole series, your journey will benefit many woodworkers. I am fortunate enough to own four Lie-Nielsen backsaws that I bought in a variety of lengths, 2 crosscut and 2 rip. Your blogs, some books I bought and the fact that that I could send them back to LN if I screwed them up beyond use motivated me to learn this skill. It is not that hard to do! I haven't had to apply or adjust set yet but I am optimistic I'll be able to tackle it. FYI, I did start on three panel saws that I filed and sharpened so I'd have rough rip saw (5 1/2 tpi) and a coarse and fine crosscut (8 and 10 tpi). I'd like to do a full one restoration of the blades and handles, some day, right?

Anyway, you have made yourself the expert and shared the knowledge. THANKS!


----------



## AnthonyReed

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


Thank you for another addition to this outstanding resource you have compiled and shared with us. The opinions you have developed is where the gold is at.

Although i have wanted to learn this skill, you have most definitely convinced me that it is mandatory. I would feel foolish, in deed, to send off my plane irons or chisels to be sharpened. It is an attainable goal made very much more so by your efforts.

Thank you kindly Andy.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


*kenn* - Glad you've found it useful, it makes it all worthwhile. I'm sure you won't find it difficult to add more set when the time comes. Sounds like you've got yourself a useful set of panel saws too. I don't know that I would call myself an expert on saws, but I certainly know a hell of a lot more than I did a year ago.

*Tony* - You can definite master saw sharpening, no doubt about it. The coming video will take you through it step by step.


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


Thanks for taking the time Andy, your massive efforts are appreciated. I too, look forward to the video. I am kind of a monkey see, monkey do learner. I am still waiting for one lucky blog series follower (me) to win the grand prize of a fully restored Andy saw. Just sayin'


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


*Shane* - You know what they say, give a man a saw and he can saw until it goes blunt. Teach a man to sharpen and he can saw for the rest of his life. Just sayin'.


----------



## waho6o9

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


Added to favorites no doubt, thanks Andy!


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


So if you saw the rest of your life…..... ..you'd know when you'd wear out your plate.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


I would imagine wearing out a plate is a bitter sweet experience Don. You'd be saying goodbye to an old friend, but at least you'd have had your moneys worth.


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


That was kinda biblical sounding Andy. I was figuring I would just send it back to you, blunted. : )


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


LOL.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


Or you're really bad at sharpening


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


Good point Don. )


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


I like Shane's idea


----------



## lysdexic

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


Rockler is now selling a saw sharpening jig that uses a CNC laser. That is the way I am going to go. Just sayin'

Seriously Andy. Great post and blog series. I plan to learn to sharpen my saws one day and will revisit this blog as reference. But I have so many other things that I need to learn. Fundamental things. Right now I seem to be in lateral drift and can't seem to momentum in the shop.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


*Scot* - I'm the same. I tend to take it easy over Winter and design and plan the projects I'm going to work on in the Spring and Summer. This year I'm lacking in momentum a bit. I'm sure it will go once I start doing something.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


Thanks for the blog Andy, Its inspiring me to sharpen and old saw I have sitting in the garage. Also I think my Veritas rip saw might be ready for a touch up. Your blogs will be the first place I turn for the info.

I have sharpened one saw so far but didnt have a decent file so maybe that's why the experience wasnt that enjoyable. Incredibly gratifying to know you can do it though.

Definitely a skill I intend to gain proficiency on one day.

Cant wait to see what you build with those saws!


----------



## llwynog

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


Hi Andy.
I really loved this series and will look forward to the video.
I thought of you recently as I bought an old handsaw for next to nothing. It will take some work to clean and sharpen it but I intend to use your blog posts as references. Just need to wait an additional 3 - 4 months to get into my new house and have a workshop once again.

Cheers,

Fabrice


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


*Mauricio* - You won't have any trouble adding saw sharpening to your list of skills. It just takes a bit of practice, but once you get a feel for it, you won't forget it.

*Fabrice* - Can't wait to see some photos of your saw restoration on you've moved house and find he time to do it. I've really learnt a lot as I've restored and sharpened my nest of saws and I'm sure you will too. Good luck with your house move.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


Man, Andy, you keep setting the barriers to entry re: saw sharpening, lower and lower… No excuse to do it, and do it well. I'm in. I promise.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


*Smitty* - I'd expect no less my friend. A few months from now, you'll be wondering what took you so long to try it.


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


*Hi Andy*

It's all good stuff, food for thought.

Some day I will make more of an effort to do a better job of sharpening my own saws. 
*Because *I have to agree with the general ideals of your blog,-in that you can't truly appreciate your tool [whatever it is] until you understand what it can or cannot do? Or until you learn to strip it down and build it back up and realise its' full potential.

Also you have managed to de-bunk and de-mystify some of the crap we are often fed?
If nothing else, I thank you for teaching me not be afraid of 'tuning up a saw'.

Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; lol 

Cheers,
John.

edit- I've gone all Shakespeare


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


Hey Johnny, I was wondering what had happened to you. Nice to hear from you again. Once I get this video out of the way, if you need any saws sharpening you know where I am. Well actually you don't do you, but if you shoot me a PM when you're ready, I'll let you know.


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


Ah *goddamit*, I'm doing it again? I'm watching saws on Ebay. I've been so good for so long now. I've been clean, my bench has been clean…. and do I need another saw????

*Andy *when I do find out where you are I'm gonna beat you with a *big stick*!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?*
> 
> When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.
> 
> I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:
> 
> "Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."
> 
> Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.
> 
> I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
> 
> How to clean up a saw plate.
> How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
> How to straighten a wavy saw plate
> How to straighten a bent saw back
> How to select the right file for the number of teeth
> How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
> How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
> How to correct various sharpening problems
> How to reduce the set on a saw
> How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
> What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.
> 
> Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
> 
> I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
> I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
> I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
> I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
> I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.
> 
> *NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT*
> I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.
> 
> *Rant On…*
> 
> *Opinion No.1*
> Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
> 
> *Opinion No.2*
> Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:
> 
> "I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
> "I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
> "The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
> "I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"
> 
> Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.
> 
> *Opinion No.3*
> The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:
> 
> 1) Sharp teeth.
> 2) A straight toothline.
> 3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
> 4) Rake.
> 5) Fleam.
> 6) Slope
> 
> I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.
> 
> Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.
> 
> Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.
> 
> *Opinion No.4*
> Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.
> 
> *Opinion No.5*
> Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.
> 
> *Opinion No.6*
> Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.
> 
> *…Rant Off*
> 
> Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.
> 
> Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.
> 
> *Rip Backsaws*
> 0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> *Crosscut Backsaws*
> 15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.
> 
> I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.
> 
> In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.
> 
> I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.
> 
> I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. *Saws no longer intimidate me.*
> 
> The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.


LOL. *John* I was clean for a few months too, then I started watching saws again. At first I just watched and let some beautiful saws go to someone else. However, I've recently bought another two saws that I just couldn't pass up. In fact I'm just about to leave to go to the post office depot to collect one of them.


----------



## Brit

*Shopping list for the upcoming saw sharpening video*

Preparations for the video are progressing well and I hope to start recording shortly. I was asked over on the Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread if I would put together a list of the things you will need to follow along with my upcoming saw sharpening video.

Here is a list of what I consider to be essential items:

1) *A 10-12" second cut hand file for jointing the teeth*. You can use a shorter file if you are using a holder like the Veritas Jointer/Edger or one of the antique versions of a file holder. Some people also prefer to use a mill file for this operation.

2) *The correct tapered saw file for the saw you intend to sharpen first*. I suggest you start with a rip-filed saw. It can be a backsaw like a tenon saw if you wish or a 24"-28" rip saw, but you might find sharpening a dovetail saw a bit challenging at first due to the small teeth. It is probably best to start on a saw with teeth in the range of 5ppi to 11ppi so you can see the teeth easily. See below for a list of the files that correspond to different size teeth. You will also need a suitable handle for the file you select.










In the US and Canada, Grobet saw files are the best and are available from Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and Tools for Working Wood. In Europe, Vallorbe files are the best and are available from Classic Hand Tools and Axminster Tool Centre.

3)* A means of holding your saw firmly while you file the teeth*. This could be one of the many vintage saw vises, the new saw vise from Tools for Working Wood, a home made saw vise (here's the one I made, but you'll find many other designs if you google 'saw vise'), or the most basic method which is to sandwhich your saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise.

4) *A suitable saw set*. I would recommend either the Stanley No.42 or the Eclipse No.77. These are both vintage saw sets and are readily available on ebay.com for the Stanley No.42 and ebay.co.uk for the Eclipse No.77. If you intend to buy vintage, please research the saw set you intend to buy before bidding to ensure you know what you're looking for. There are new copies of the Eclipse design available today made by Somax which are available in the US and Canada from Tools for Working Wood. If you are in Europe you can buy the Somax saw sets from Axminster Tool Centre or Workshop Heaven.

---------------------------------------------------

Other items that are not essential but that I will be using in the video are:

1) A packet of cigarette papers or feeler gauges (metric or imperial).
2) A flat reference surface such as the top of a table saw or bandsaw, a granite slab (kitchen worktop) or a sheet of float glass.
3) A fine tipped black permanent marker.
4) A fine diamond stone. This doesn't have to be as big as a bench stone that you would sharpen plane irons on. It can be a small diamond stone like you might use for touching up router bits.
5) A 4" long piece of scrap softwood (approximately 1" x 5/8")


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Shopping list for the upcoming saw sharpening video*
> 
> Preparations for the video are progressing well and I hope to start recording shortly. I was asked over on the Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread if I would put together a list of the things you will need to follow along with my upcoming saw sharpening video.
> 
> Here is a list of what I consider to be essential items:
> 
> 1) *A 10-12" second cut hand file for jointing the teeth*. You can use a shorter file if you are using a holder like the Veritas Jointer/Edger or one of the antique versions of a file holder. Some people also prefer to use a mill file for this operation.
> 
> 2) *The correct tapered saw file for the saw you intend to sharpen first*. I suggest you start with a rip-filed saw. It can be a backsaw like a tenon saw if you wish or a 24"-28" rip saw, but you might find sharpening a dovetail saw a bit challenging at first due to the small teeth. It is probably best to start on a saw with teeth in the range of 5ppi to 11ppi so you can see the teeth easily. See below for a list of the files that correspond to different size teeth. You will also need a suitable handle for the file you select.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the US and Canada, Grobet saw files are the best and are available from Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and Tools for Working Wood. In Europe, Vallorbe files are the best and are available from Classic Hand Tools and Axminster Tool Centre.
> 
> 3)* A means of holding your saw firmly while you file the teeth*. This could be one of the many vintage saw vises, the new saw vise from Tools for Working Wood, a home made saw vise (here's the one I made, but you'll find many other designs if you google 'saw vise'), or the most basic method which is to sandwhich your saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise.
> 
> 4) *A suitable saw set*. I would recommend either the Stanley No.42 or the Eclipse No.77. These are both vintage saw sets and are readily available on ebay.com for the Stanley No.42 and ebay.co.uk for the Eclipse No.77. If you intend to buy vintage, please research the saw set you intend to buy before bidding to ensure you know what you're looking for. There are new copies of the Eclipse design available today made by Somax which are available in the US and Canada from Tools for Working Wood. If you are in Europe you can buy the Somax saw sets from Axminster Tool Centre or Workshop Heaven.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Other items that are not essential but that I will be using in the video are:
> 
> 1) A packet of cigarette papers or feeler gauges (metric or imperial).
> 2) A flat reference surface such as the top of a table saw or bandsaw, a granite slab (kitchen worktop) or a sheet of float glass.
> 3) A fine tipped black permanent marker.
> 4) A fine diamond stone. This doesn't have to be as big as a bench stone that you would sharpen plane irons on. It can be a small diamond stone like you might use for touching up router bits.
> 5) A 4" long piece of scrap softwood (approximately 1" x 5/8")


and a six pack!!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Shopping list for the upcoming saw sharpening video*
> 
> Preparations for the video are progressing well and I hope to start recording shortly. I was asked over on the Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread if I would put together a list of the things you will need to follow along with my upcoming saw sharpening video.
> 
> Here is a list of what I consider to be essential items:
> 
> 1) *A 10-12" second cut hand file for jointing the teeth*. You can use a shorter file if you are using a holder like the Veritas Jointer/Edger or one of the antique versions of a file holder. Some people also prefer to use a mill file for this operation.
> 
> 2) *The correct tapered saw file for the saw you intend to sharpen first*. I suggest you start with a rip-filed saw. It can be a backsaw like a tenon saw if you wish or a 24"-28" rip saw, but you might find sharpening a dovetail saw a bit challenging at first due to the small teeth. It is probably best to start on a saw with teeth in the range of 5ppi to 11ppi so you can see the teeth easily. See below for a list of the files that correspond to different size teeth. You will also need a suitable handle for the file you select.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the US and Canada, Grobet saw files are the best and are available from Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and Tools for Working Wood. In Europe, Vallorbe files are the best and are available from Classic Hand Tools and Axminster Tool Centre.
> 
> 3)* A means of holding your saw firmly while you file the teeth*. This could be one of the many vintage saw vises, the new saw vise from Tools for Working Wood, a home made saw vise (here's the one I made, but you'll find many other designs if you google 'saw vise'), or the most basic method which is to sandwhich your saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise.
> 
> 4) *A suitable saw set*. I would recommend either the Stanley No.42 or the Eclipse No.77. These are both vintage saw sets and are readily available on ebay.com for the Stanley No.42 and ebay.co.uk for the Eclipse No.77. If you intend to buy vintage, please research the saw set you intend to buy before bidding to ensure you know what you're looking for. There are new copies of the Eclipse design available today made by Somax which are available in the US and Canada from Tools for Working Wood. If you are in Europe you can buy the Somax saw sets from Axminster Tool Centre or Workshop Heaven.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Other items that are not essential but that I will be using in the video are:
> 
> 1) A packet of cigarette papers or feeler gauges (metric or imperial).
> 2) A flat reference surface such as the top of a table saw or bandsaw, a granite slab (kitchen worktop) or a sheet of float glass.
> 3) A fine tipped black permanent marker.
> 4) A fine diamond stone. This doesn't have to be as big as a bench stone that you would sharpen plane irons on. It can be a small diamond stone like you might use for touching up router bits.
> 5) A 4" long piece of scrap softwood (approximately 1" x 5/8")


Absolutely Don. Just make sure it is this kind of six pack…










...and not this kind of six pack as this isn't essential for sharpening saws.










Will somebody let this poor chap know, because I think he's a wee bit confused?


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *Shopping list for the upcoming saw sharpening video*
> 
> Preparations for the video are progressing well and I hope to start recording shortly. I was asked over on the Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread if I would put together a list of the things you will need to follow along with my upcoming saw sharpening video.
> 
> Here is a list of what I consider to be essential items:
> 
> 1) *A 10-12" second cut hand file for jointing the teeth*. You can use a shorter file if you are using a holder like the Veritas Jointer/Edger or one of the antique versions of a file holder. Some people also prefer to use a mill file for this operation.
> 
> 2) *The correct tapered saw file for the saw you intend to sharpen first*. I suggest you start with a rip-filed saw. It can be a backsaw like a tenon saw if you wish or a 24"-28" rip saw, but you might find sharpening a dovetail saw a bit challenging at first due to the small teeth. It is probably best to start on a saw with teeth in the range of 5ppi to 11ppi so you can see the teeth easily. See below for a list of the files that correspond to different size teeth. You will also need a suitable handle for the file you select.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the US and Canada, Grobet saw files are the best and are available from Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and Tools for Working Wood. In Europe, Vallorbe files are the best and are available from Classic Hand Tools and Axminster Tool Centre.
> 
> 3)* A means of holding your saw firmly while you file the teeth*. This could be one of the many vintage saw vises, the new saw vise from Tools for Working Wood, a home made saw vise (here's the one I made, but you'll find many other designs if you google 'saw vise'), or the most basic method which is to sandwhich your saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise.
> 
> 4) *A suitable saw set*. I would recommend either the Stanley No.42 or the Eclipse No.77. These are both vintage saw sets and are readily available on ebay.com for the Stanley No.42 and ebay.co.uk for the Eclipse No.77. If you intend to buy vintage, please research the saw set you intend to buy before bidding to ensure you know what you're looking for. There are new copies of the Eclipse design available today made by Somax which are available in the US and Canada from Tools for Working Wood. If you are in Europe you can buy the Somax saw sets from Axminster Tool Centre or Workshop Heaven.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Other items that are not essential but that I will be using in the video are:
> 
> 1) A packet of cigarette papers or feeler gauges (metric or imperial).
> 2) A flat reference surface such as the top of a table saw or bandsaw, a granite slab (kitchen worktop) or a sheet of float glass.
> 3) A fine tipped black permanent marker.
> 4) A fine diamond stone. This doesn't have to be as big as a bench stone that you would sharpen plane irons on. It can be a small diamond stone like you might use for touching up router bits.
> 5) A 4" long piece of scrap softwood (approximately 1" x 5/8")


Cigarette papers? Nice, mellow me out some before the big movie.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Shopping list for the upcoming saw sharpening video*
> 
> Preparations for the video are progressing well and I hope to start recording shortly. I was asked over on the Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread if I would put together a list of the things you will need to follow along with my upcoming saw sharpening video.
> 
> Here is a list of what I consider to be essential items:
> 
> 1) *A 10-12" second cut hand file for jointing the teeth*. You can use a shorter file if you are using a holder like the Veritas Jointer/Edger or one of the antique versions of a file holder. Some people also prefer to use a mill file for this operation.
> 
> 2) *The correct tapered saw file for the saw you intend to sharpen first*. I suggest you start with a rip-filed saw. It can be a backsaw like a tenon saw if you wish or a 24"-28" rip saw, but you might find sharpening a dovetail saw a bit challenging at first due to the small teeth. It is probably best to start on a saw with teeth in the range of 5ppi to 11ppi so you can see the teeth easily. See below for a list of the files that correspond to different size teeth. You will also need a suitable handle for the file you select.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the US and Canada, Grobet saw files are the best and are available from Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and Tools for Working Wood. In Europe, Vallorbe files are the best and are available from Classic Hand Tools and Axminster Tool Centre.
> 
> 3)* A means of holding your saw firmly while you file the teeth*. This could be one of the many vintage saw vises, the new saw vise from Tools for Working Wood, a home made saw vise (here's the one I made, but you'll find many other designs if you google 'saw vise'), or the most basic method which is to sandwhich your saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise.
> 
> 4) *A suitable saw set*. I would recommend either the Stanley No.42 or the Eclipse No.77. These are both vintage saw sets and are readily available on ebay.com for the Stanley No.42 and ebay.co.uk for the Eclipse No.77. If you intend to buy vintage, please research the saw set you intend to buy before bidding to ensure you know what you're looking for. There are new copies of the Eclipse design available today made by Somax which are available in the US and Canada from Tools for Working Wood. If you are in Europe you can buy the Somax saw sets from Axminster Tool Centre or Workshop Heaven.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Other items that are not essential but that I will be using in the video are:
> 
> 1) A packet of cigarette papers or feeler gauges (metric or imperial).
> 2) A flat reference surface such as the top of a table saw or bandsaw, a granite slab (kitchen worktop) or a sheet of float glass.
> 3) A fine tipped black permanent marker.
> 4) A fine diamond stone. This doesn't have to be as big as a bench stone that you would sharpen plane irons on. It can be a small diamond stone like you might use for touching up router bits.
> 5) A 4" long piece of scrap softwood (approximately 1" x 5/8")


You're mellow enough Shane. Say *NO* to the whacky backy.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Shopping list for the upcoming saw sharpening video*
> 
> Preparations for the video are progressing well and I hope to start recording shortly. I was asked over on the Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread if I would put together a list of the things you will need to follow along with my upcoming saw sharpening video.
> 
> Here is a list of what I consider to be essential items:
> 
> 1) *A 10-12" second cut hand file for jointing the teeth*. You can use a shorter file if you are using a holder like the Veritas Jointer/Edger or one of the antique versions of a file holder. Some people also prefer to use a mill file for this operation.
> 
> 2) *The correct tapered saw file for the saw you intend to sharpen first*. I suggest you start with a rip-filed saw. It can be a backsaw like a tenon saw if you wish or a 24"-28" rip saw, but you might find sharpening a dovetail saw a bit challenging at first due to the small teeth. It is probably best to start on a saw with teeth in the range of 5ppi to 11ppi so you can see the teeth easily. See below for a list of the files that correspond to different size teeth. You will also need a suitable handle for the file you select.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the US and Canada, Grobet saw files are the best and are available from Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and Tools for Working Wood. In Europe, Vallorbe files are the best and are available from Classic Hand Tools and Axminster Tool Centre.
> 
> 3)* A means of holding your saw firmly while you file the teeth*. This could be one of the many vintage saw vises, the new saw vise from Tools for Working Wood, a home made saw vise (here's the one I made, but you'll find many other designs if you google 'saw vise'), or the most basic method which is to sandwhich your saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise.
> 
> 4) *A suitable saw set*. I would recommend either the Stanley No.42 or the Eclipse No.77. These are both vintage saw sets and are readily available on ebay.com for the Stanley No.42 and ebay.co.uk for the Eclipse No.77. If you intend to buy vintage, please research the saw set you intend to buy before bidding to ensure you know what you're looking for. There are new copies of the Eclipse design available today made by Somax which are available in the US and Canada from Tools for Working Wood. If you are in Europe you can buy the Somax saw sets from Axminster Tool Centre or Workshop Heaven.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Other items that are not essential but that I will be using in the video are:
> 
> 1) A packet of cigarette papers or feeler gauges (metric or imperial).
> 2) A flat reference surface such as the top of a table saw or bandsaw, a granite slab (kitchen worktop) or a sheet of float glass.
> 3) A fine tipped black permanent marker.
> 4) A fine diamond stone. This doesn't have to be as big as a bench stone that you would sharpen plane irons on. It can be a small diamond stone like you might use for touching up router bits.
> 5) A 4" long piece of scrap softwood (approximately 1" x 5/8")


Imperial cigarette papers? Where do I get those? Sounds like Shane knows.


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Shopping list for the upcoming saw sharpening video*
> 
> Preparations for the video are progressing well and I hope to start recording shortly. I was asked over on the Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread if I would put together a list of the things you will need to follow along with my upcoming saw sharpening video.
> 
> Here is a list of what I consider to be essential items:
> 
> 1) *A 10-12" second cut hand file for jointing the teeth*. You can use a shorter file if you are using a holder like the Veritas Jointer/Edger or one of the antique versions of a file holder. Some people also prefer to use a mill file for this operation.
> 
> 2) *The correct tapered saw file for the saw you intend to sharpen first*. I suggest you start with a rip-filed saw. It can be a backsaw like a tenon saw if you wish or a 24"-28" rip saw, but you might find sharpening a dovetail saw a bit challenging at first due to the small teeth. It is probably best to start on a saw with teeth in the range of 5ppi to 11ppi so you can see the teeth easily. See below for a list of the files that correspond to different size teeth. You will also need a suitable handle for the file you select.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the US and Canada, Grobet saw files are the best and are available from Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and Tools for Working Wood. In Europe, Vallorbe files are the best and are available from Classic Hand Tools and Axminster Tool Centre.
> 
> 3)* A means of holding your saw firmly while you file the teeth*. This could be one of the many vintage saw vises, the new saw vise from Tools for Working Wood, a home made saw vise (here's the one I made, but you'll find many other designs if you google 'saw vise'), or the most basic method which is to sandwhich your saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise.
> 
> 4) *A suitable saw set*. I would recommend either the Stanley No.42 or the Eclipse No.77. These are both vintage saw sets and are readily available on ebay.com for the Stanley No.42 and ebay.co.uk for the Eclipse No.77. If you intend to buy vintage, please research the saw set you intend to buy before bidding to ensure you know what you're looking for. There are new copies of the Eclipse design available today made by Somax which are available in the US and Canada from Tools for Working Wood. If you are in Europe you can buy the Somax saw sets from Axminster Tool Centre or Workshop Heaven.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Other items that are not essential but that I will be using in the video are:
> 
> 1) A packet of cigarette papers or feeler gauges (metric or imperial).
> 2) A flat reference surface such as the top of a table saw or bandsaw, a granite slab (kitchen worktop) or a sheet of float glass.
> 3) A fine tipped black permanent marker.
> 4) A fine diamond stone. This doesn't have to be as big as a bench stone that you would sharpen plane irons on. It can be a small diamond stone like you might use for touching up router bits.
> 5) A 4" long piece of scrap softwood (approximately 1" x 5/8")


Maur - theyre behind the counter, you gotta ask the clerk. <innocent>

Thanks for the list Andy. I hope to be all prepped up for the world premiere. Have you made your decision on whos doing your make up for the shoot? Don or Shane?


----------



## Stephenw

Brit said:


> *Shopping list for the upcoming saw sharpening video*
> 
> Preparations for the video are progressing well and I hope to start recording shortly. I was asked over on the Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread if I would put together a list of the things you will need to follow along with my upcoming saw sharpening video.
> 
> Here is a list of what I consider to be essential items:
> 
> 1) *A 10-12" second cut hand file for jointing the teeth*. You can use a shorter file if you are using a holder like the Veritas Jointer/Edger or one of the antique versions of a file holder. Some people also prefer to use a mill file for this operation.
> 
> 2) *The correct tapered saw file for the saw you intend to sharpen first*. I suggest you start with a rip-filed saw. It can be a backsaw like a tenon saw if you wish or a 24"-28" rip saw, but you might find sharpening a dovetail saw a bit challenging at first due to the small teeth. It is probably best to start on a saw with teeth in the range of 5ppi to 11ppi so you can see the teeth easily. See below for a list of the files that correspond to different size teeth. You will also need a suitable handle for the file you select.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the US and Canada, Grobet saw files are the best and are available from Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and Tools for Working Wood. In Europe, Vallorbe files are the best and are available from Classic Hand Tools and Axminster Tool Centre.
> 
> 3)* A means of holding your saw firmly while you file the teeth*. This could be one of the many vintage saw vises, the new saw vise from Tools for Working Wood, a home made saw vise (here's the one I made, but you'll find many other designs if you google 'saw vise'), or the most basic method which is to sandwhich your saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise.
> 
> 4) *A suitable saw set*. I would recommend either the Stanley No.42 or the Eclipse No.77. These are both vintage saw sets and are readily available on ebay.com for the Stanley No.42 and ebay.co.uk for the Eclipse No.77. If you intend to buy vintage, please research the saw set you intend to buy before bidding to ensure you know what you're looking for. There are new copies of the Eclipse design available today made by Somax which are available in the US and Canada from Tools for Working Wood. If you are in Europe you can buy the Somax saw sets from Axminster Tool Centre or Workshop Heaven.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Other items that are not essential but that I will be using in the video are:
> 
> 1) A packet of cigarette papers or feeler gauges (metric or imperial).
> 2) A flat reference surface such as the top of a table saw or bandsaw, a granite slab (kitchen worktop) or a sheet of float glass.
> 3) A fine tipped black permanent marker.
> 4) A fine diamond stone. This doesn't have to be as big as a bench stone that you would sharpen plane irons on. It can be a small diamond stone like you might use for touching up router bits.
> 5) A 4" long piece of scrap softwood (approximately 1" x 5/8")


I'm looking forward to the video.

You really should put a new top on your Workmate.


----------



## ksSlim

Brit said:


> *Shopping list for the upcoming saw sharpening video*
> 
> Preparations for the video are progressing well and I hope to start recording shortly. I was asked over on the Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread if I would put together a list of the things you will need to follow along with my upcoming saw sharpening video.
> 
> Here is a list of what I consider to be essential items:
> 
> 1) *A 10-12" second cut hand file for jointing the teeth*. You can use a shorter file if you are using a holder like the Veritas Jointer/Edger or one of the antique versions of a file holder. Some people also prefer to use a mill file for this operation.
> 
> 2) *The correct tapered saw file for the saw you intend to sharpen first*. I suggest you start with a rip-filed saw. It can be a backsaw like a tenon saw if you wish or a 24"-28" rip saw, but you might find sharpening a dovetail saw a bit challenging at first due to the small teeth. It is probably best to start on a saw with teeth in the range of 5ppi to 11ppi so you can see the teeth easily. See below for a list of the files that correspond to different size teeth. You will also need a suitable handle for the file you select.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the US and Canada, Grobet saw files are the best and are available from Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and Tools for Working Wood. In Europe, Vallorbe files are the best and are available from Classic Hand Tools and Axminster Tool Centre.
> 
> 3)* A means of holding your saw firmly while you file the teeth*. This could be one of the many vintage saw vises, the new saw vise from Tools for Working Wood, a home made saw vise (here's the one I made, but you'll find many other designs if you google 'saw vise'), or the most basic method which is to sandwhich your saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise.
> 
> 4) *A suitable saw set*. I would recommend either the Stanley No.42 or the Eclipse No.77. These are both vintage saw sets and are readily available on ebay.com for the Stanley No.42 and ebay.co.uk for the Eclipse No.77. If you intend to buy vintage, please research the saw set you intend to buy before bidding to ensure you know what you're looking for. There are new copies of the Eclipse design available today made by Somax which are available in the US and Canada from Tools for Working Wood. If you are in Europe you can buy the Somax saw sets from Axminster Tool Centre or Workshop Heaven.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Other items that are not essential but that I will be using in the video are:
> 
> 1) A packet of cigarette papers or feeler gauges (metric or imperial).
> 2) A flat reference surface such as the top of a table saw or bandsaw, a granite slab (kitchen worktop) or a sheet of float glass.
> 3) A fine tipped black permanent marker.
> 4) A fine diamond stone. This doesn't have to be as big as a bench stone that you would sharpen plane irons on. It can be a small diamond stone like you might use for touching up router bits.
> 5) A 4" long piece of scrap softwood (approximately 1" x 5/8")


Thanks for the list Andy!

Looking forward to improving my "scratch the tooth" skills.

I've learned a lot from your blogs!


----------



## jjw5858

Brit said:


> *Shopping list for the upcoming saw sharpening video*
> 
> Preparations for the video are progressing well and I hope to start recording shortly. I was asked over on the Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread if I would put together a list of the things you will need to follow along with my upcoming saw sharpening video.
> 
> Here is a list of what I consider to be essential items:
> 
> 1) *A 10-12" second cut hand file for jointing the teeth*. You can use a shorter file if you are using a holder like the Veritas Jointer/Edger or one of the antique versions of a file holder. Some people also prefer to use a mill file for this operation.
> 
> 2) *The correct tapered saw file for the saw you intend to sharpen first*. I suggest you start with a rip-filed saw. It can be a backsaw like a tenon saw if you wish or a 24"-28" rip saw, but you might find sharpening a dovetail saw a bit challenging at first due to the small teeth. It is probably best to start on a saw with teeth in the range of 5ppi to 11ppi so you can see the teeth easily. See below for a list of the files that correspond to different size teeth. You will also need a suitable handle for the file you select.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the US and Canada, Grobet saw files are the best and are available from Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and Tools for Working Wood. In Europe, Vallorbe files are the best and are available from Classic Hand Tools and Axminster Tool Centre.
> 
> 3)* A means of holding your saw firmly while you file the teeth*. This could be one of the many vintage saw vises, the new saw vise from Tools for Working Wood, a home made saw vise (here's the one I made, but you'll find many other designs if you google 'saw vise'), or the most basic method which is to sandwhich your saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise.
> 
> 4) *A suitable saw set*. I would recommend either the Stanley No.42 or the Eclipse No.77. These are both vintage saw sets and are readily available on ebay.com for the Stanley No.42 and ebay.co.uk for the Eclipse No.77. If you intend to buy vintage, please research the saw set you intend to buy before bidding to ensure you know what you're looking for. There are new copies of the Eclipse design available today made by Somax which are available in the US and Canada from Tools for Working Wood. If you are in Europe you can buy the Somax saw sets from Axminster Tool Centre or Workshop Heaven.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Other items that are not essential but that I will be using in the video are:
> 
> 1) A packet of cigarette papers or feeler gauges (metric or imperial).
> 2) A flat reference surface such as the top of a table saw or bandsaw, a granite slab (kitchen worktop) or a sheet of float glass.
> 3) A fine tipped black permanent marker.
> 4) A fine diamond stone. This doesn't have to be as big as a bench stone that you would sharpen plane irons on. It can be a small diamond stone like you might use for touching up router bits.
> 5) A 4" long piece of scrap softwood (approximately 1" x 5/8")


Looking forward to the video as well!

Here's some most excellent brew regarding any alcohol powered saw sharpening duties…..lol.



*KEEP ON SAWYERS!!*


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Shopping list for the upcoming saw sharpening video*
> 
> Preparations for the video are progressing well and I hope to start recording shortly. I was asked over on the Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread if I would put together a list of the things you will need to follow along with my upcoming saw sharpening video.
> 
> Here is a list of what I consider to be essential items:
> 
> 1) *A 10-12" second cut hand file for jointing the teeth*. You can use a shorter file if you are using a holder like the Veritas Jointer/Edger or one of the antique versions of a file holder. Some people also prefer to use a mill file for this operation.
> 
> 2) *The correct tapered saw file for the saw you intend to sharpen first*. I suggest you start with a rip-filed saw. It can be a backsaw like a tenon saw if you wish or a 24"-28" rip saw, but you might find sharpening a dovetail saw a bit challenging at first due to the small teeth. It is probably best to start on a saw with teeth in the range of 5ppi to 11ppi so you can see the teeth easily. See below for a list of the files that correspond to different size teeth. You will also need a suitable handle for the file you select.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the US and Canada, Grobet saw files are the best and are available from Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and Tools for Working Wood. In Europe, Vallorbe files are the best and are available from Classic Hand Tools and Axminster Tool Centre.
> 
> 3)* A means of holding your saw firmly while you file the teeth*. This could be one of the many vintage saw vises, the new saw vise from Tools for Working Wood, a home made saw vise (here's the one I made, but you'll find many other designs if you google 'saw vise'), or the most basic method which is to sandwhich your saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise.
> 
> 4) *A suitable saw set*. I would recommend either the Stanley No.42 or the Eclipse No.77. These are both vintage saw sets and are readily available on ebay.com for the Stanley No.42 and ebay.co.uk for the Eclipse No.77. If you intend to buy vintage, please research the saw set you intend to buy before bidding to ensure you know what you're looking for. There are new copies of the Eclipse design available today made by Somax which are available in the US and Canada from Tools for Working Wood. If you are in Europe you can buy the Somax saw sets from Axminster Tool Centre or Workshop Heaven.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Other items that are not essential but that I will be using in the video are:
> 
> 1) A packet of cigarette papers or feeler gauges (metric or imperial).
> 2) A flat reference surface such as the top of a table saw or bandsaw, a granite slab (kitchen worktop) or a sheet of float glass.
> 3) A fine tipped black permanent marker.
> 4) A fine diamond stone. This doesn't have to be as big as a bench stone that you would sharpen plane irons on. It can be a small diamond stone like you might use for touching up router bits.
> 5) A 4" long piece of scrap softwood (approximately 1" x 5/8")


There's been rumors floating around that your world debut is getting close. Ive carved out a few hours here to finally get my butt in gear and order up all my supplies. I up to a dozen saws needing some work.

2 tenon saws 
2 miter box saws 
2 rip saws 
2 crossscut saws
4 practice saws

I think ill get myself a few pints of Samuel Smith too ….


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *Shopping list for the upcoming saw sharpening video*
> 
> Preparations for the video are progressing well and I hope to start recording shortly. I was asked over on the Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread if I would put together a list of the things you will need to follow along with my upcoming saw sharpening video.
> 
> Here is a list of what I consider to be essential items:
> 
> 1) *A 10-12" second cut hand file for jointing the teeth*. You can use a shorter file if you are using a holder like the Veritas Jointer/Edger or one of the antique versions of a file holder. Some people also prefer to use a mill file for this operation.
> 
> 2) *The correct tapered saw file for the saw you intend to sharpen first*. I suggest you start with a rip-filed saw. It can be a backsaw like a tenon saw if you wish or a 24"-28" rip saw, but you might find sharpening a dovetail saw a bit challenging at first due to the small teeth. It is probably best to start on a saw with teeth in the range of 5ppi to 11ppi so you can see the teeth easily. See below for a list of the files that correspond to different size teeth. You will also need a suitable handle for the file you select.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the US and Canada, Grobet saw files are the best and are available from Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and Tools for Working Wood. In Europe, Vallorbe files are the best and are available from Classic Hand Tools and Axminster Tool Centre.
> 
> 3)* A means of holding your saw firmly while you file the teeth*. This could be one of the many vintage saw vises, the new saw vise from Tools for Working Wood, a home made saw vise (here's the one I made, but you'll find many other designs if you google 'saw vise'), or the most basic method which is to sandwhich your saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise.
> 
> 4) *A suitable saw set*. I would recommend either the Stanley No.42 or the Eclipse No.77. These are both vintage saw sets and are readily available on ebay.com for the Stanley No.42 and ebay.co.uk for the Eclipse No.77. If you intend to buy vintage, please research the saw set you intend to buy before bidding to ensure you know what you're looking for. There are new copies of the Eclipse design available today made by Somax which are available in the US and Canada from Tools for Working Wood. If you are in Europe you can buy the Somax saw sets from Axminster Tool Centre or Workshop Heaven.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Other items that are not essential but that I will be using in the video are:
> 
> 1) A packet of cigarette papers or feeler gauges (metric or imperial).
> 2) A flat reference surface such as the top of a table saw or bandsaw, a granite slab (kitchen worktop) or a sheet of float glass.
> 3) A fine tipped black permanent marker.
> 4) A fine diamond stone. This doesn't have to be as big as a bench stone that you would sharpen plane irons on. It can be a small diamond stone like you might use for touching up router bits.
> 5) A 4" long piece of scrap softwood (approximately 1" x 5/8")


Debut? Really, I hadn't heard that? Can you name your sources?


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Shopping list for the upcoming saw sharpening video*
> 
> Preparations for the video are progressing well and I hope to start recording shortly. I was asked over on the Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread if I would put together a list of the things you will need to follow along with my upcoming saw sharpening video.
> 
> Here is a list of what I consider to be essential items:
> 
> 1) *A 10-12" second cut hand file for jointing the teeth*. You can use a shorter file if you are using a holder like the Veritas Jointer/Edger or one of the antique versions of a file holder. Some people also prefer to use a mill file for this operation.
> 
> 2) *The correct tapered saw file for the saw you intend to sharpen first*. I suggest you start with a rip-filed saw. It can be a backsaw like a tenon saw if you wish or a 24"-28" rip saw, but you might find sharpening a dovetail saw a bit challenging at first due to the small teeth. It is probably best to start on a saw with teeth in the range of 5ppi to 11ppi so you can see the teeth easily. See below for a list of the files that correspond to different size teeth. You will also need a suitable handle for the file you select.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the US and Canada, Grobet saw files are the best and are available from Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and Tools for Working Wood. In Europe, Vallorbe files are the best and are available from Classic Hand Tools and Axminster Tool Centre.
> 
> 3)* A means of holding your saw firmly while you file the teeth*. This could be one of the many vintage saw vises, the new saw vise from Tools for Working Wood, a home made saw vise (here's the one I made, but you'll find many other designs if you google 'saw vise'), or the most basic method which is to sandwhich your saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise.
> 
> 4) *A suitable saw set*. I would recommend either the Stanley No.42 or the Eclipse No.77. These are both vintage saw sets and are readily available on ebay.com for the Stanley No.42 and ebay.co.uk for the Eclipse No.77. If you intend to buy vintage, please research the saw set you intend to buy before bidding to ensure you know what you're looking for. There are new copies of the Eclipse design available today made by Somax which are available in the US and Canada from Tools for Working Wood. If you are in Europe you can buy the Somax saw sets from Axminster Tool Centre or Workshop Heaven.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Other items that are not essential but that I will be using in the video are:
> 
> 1) A packet of cigarette papers or feeler gauges (metric or imperial).
> 2) A flat reference surface such as the top of a table saw or bandsaw, a granite slab (kitchen worktop) or a sheet of float glass.
> 3) A fine tipped black permanent marker.
> 4) A fine diamond stone. This doesn't have to be as big as a bench stone that you would sharpen plane irons on. It can be a small diamond stone like you might use for touching up router bits.
> 5) A 4" long piece of scrap softwood (approximately 1" x 5/8")


Seriously … Lee Valley, TFW are out and LN doesnt have a search function … that bollocks.


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Shopping list for the upcoming saw sharpening video*
> 
> Preparations for the video are progressing well and I hope to start recording shortly. I was asked over on the Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread if I would put together a list of the things you will need to follow along with my upcoming saw sharpening video.
> 
> Here is a list of what I consider to be essential items:
> 
> 1) *A 10-12" second cut hand file for jointing the teeth*. You can use a shorter file if you are using a holder like the Veritas Jointer/Edger or one of the antique versions of a file holder. Some people also prefer to use a mill file for this operation.
> 
> 2) *The correct tapered saw file for the saw you intend to sharpen first*. I suggest you start with a rip-filed saw. It can be a backsaw like a tenon saw if you wish or a 24"-28" rip saw, but you might find sharpening a dovetail saw a bit challenging at first due to the small teeth. It is probably best to start on a saw with teeth in the range of 5ppi to 11ppi so you can see the teeth easily. See below for a list of the files that correspond to different size teeth. You will also need a suitable handle for the file you select.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the US and Canada, Grobet saw files are the best and are available from Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and Tools for Working Wood. In Europe, Vallorbe files are the best and are available from Classic Hand Tools and Axminster Tool Centre.
> 
> 3)* A means of holding your saw firmly while you file the teeth*. This could be one of the many vintage saw vises, the new saw vise from Tools for Working Wood, a home made saw vise (here's the one I made, but you'll find many other designs if you google 'saw vise'), or the most basic method which is to sandwhich your saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise.
> 
> 4) *A suitable saw set*. I would recommend either the Stanley No.42 or the Eclipse No.77. These are both vintage saw sets and are readily available on ebay.com for the Stanley No.42 and ebay.co.uk for the Eclipse No.77. If you intend to buy vintage, please research the saw set you intend to buy before bidding to ensure you know what you're looking for. There are new copies of the Eclipse design available today made by Somax which are available in the US and Canada from Tools for Working Wood. If you are in Europe you can buy the Somax saw sets from Axminster Tool Centre or Workshop Heaven.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Other items that are not essential but that I will be using in the video are:
> 
> 1) A packet of cigarette papers or feeler gauges (metric or imperial).
> 2) A flat reference surface such as the top of a table saw or bandsaw, a granite slab (kitchen worktop) or a sheet of float glass.
> 3) A fine tipped black permanent marker.
> 4) A fine diamond stone. This doesn't have to be as big as a bench stone that you would sharpen plane irons on. It can be a small diamond stone like you might use for touching up router bits.
> 5) A 4" long piece of scrap softwood (approximately 1" x 5/8")


Shane - I believe I overheard / read Andy talking about his neighbor interrupting his shoot offering her husband some tea. I guess it would be more of an inference than anything else 

June 28th is the estimated arrival of some new stock from Grobet to LV. Why, why, why am I such a last minute guy.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Shopping list for the upcoming saw sharpening video*
> 
> Preparations for the video are progressing well and I hope to start recording shortly. I was asked over on the Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread if I would put together a list of the things you will need to follow along with my upcoming saw sharpening video.
> 
> Here is a list of what I consider to be essential items:
> 
> 1) *A 10-12" second cut hand file for jointing the teeth*. You can use a shorter file if you are using a holder like the Veritas Jointer/Edger or one of the antique versions of a file holder. Some people also prefer to use a mill file for this operation.
> 
> 2) *The correct tapered saw file for the saw you intend to sharpen first*. I suggest you start with a rip-filed saw. It can be a backsaw like a tenon saw if you wish or a 24"-28" rip saw, but you might find sharpening a dovetail saw a bit challenging at first due to the small teeth. It is probably best to start on a saw with teeth in the range of 5ppi to 11ppi so you can see the teeth easily. See below for a list of the files that correspond to different size teeth. You will also need a suitable handle for the file you select.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the US and Canada, Grobet saw files are the best and are available from Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and Tools for Working Wood. In Europe, Vallorbe files are the best and are available from Classic Hand Tools and Axminster Tool Centre.
> 
> 3)* A means of holding your saw firmly while you file the teeth*. This could be one of the many vintage saw vises, the new saw vise from Tools for Working Wood, a home made saw vise (here's the one I made, but you'll find many other designs if you google 'saw vise'), or the most basic method which is to sandwhich your saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise.
> 
> 4) *A suitable saw set*. I would recommend either the Stanley No.42 or the Eclipse No.77. These are both vintage saw sets and are readily available on ebay.com for the Stanley No.42 and ebay.co.uk for the Eclipse No.77. If you intend to buy vintage, please research the saw set you intend to buy before bidding to ensure you know what you're looking for. There are new copies of the Eclipse design available today made by Somax which are available in the US and Canada from Tools for Working Wood. If you are in Europe you can buy the Somax saw sets from Axminster Tool Centre or Workshop Heaven.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Other items that are not essential but that I will be using in the video are:
> 
> 1) A packet of cigarette papers or feeler gauges (metric or imperial).
> 2) A flat reference surface such as the top of a table saw or bandsaw, a granite slab (kitchen worktop) or a sheet of float glass.
> 3) A fine tipped black permanent marker.
> 4) A fine diamond stone. This doesn't have to be as big as a bench stone that you would sharpen plane irons on. It can be a small diamond stone like you might use for touching up router bits.
> 5) A 4" long piece of scrap softwood (approximately 1" x 5/8")


Weather permitting, I hope to get it 'in the can' this weekend which is a three day weekend in the UK. I'm trying desperately to keep it to 2 hours, but it might be a little longer. After I've edited the final bit, it will then take approximately 8 hours to render it in Full HD and an as yet unknown time to upload it to YouTube.

C'mon sunshine!!!!


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Shopping list for the upcoming saw sharpening video*
> 
> Preparations for the video are progressing well and I hope to start recording shortly. I was asked over on the Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread if I would put together a list of the things you will need to follow along with my upcoming saw sharpening video.
> 
> Here is a list of what I consider to be essential items:
> 
> 1) *A 10-12" second cut hand file for jointing the teeth*. You can use a shorter file if you are using a holder like the Veritas Jointer/Edger or one of the antique versions of a file holder. Some people also prefer to use a mill file for this operation.
> 
> 2) *The correct tapered saw file for the saw you intend to sharpen first*. I suggest you start with a rip-filed saw. It can be a backsaw like a tenon saw if you wish or a 24"-28" rip saw, but you might find sharpening a dovetail saw a bit challenging at first due to the small teeth. It is probably best to start on a saw with teeth in the range of 5ppi to 11ppi so you can see the teeth easily. See below for a list of the files that correspond to different size teeth. You will also need a suitable handle for the file you select.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the US and Canada, Grobet saw files are the best and are available from Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and Tools for Working Wood. In Europe, Vallorbe files are the best and are available from Classic Hand Tools and Axminster Tool Centre.
> 
> 3)* A means of holding your saw firmly while you file the teeth*. This could be one of the many vintage saw vises, the new saw vise from Tools for Working Wood, a home made saw vise (here's the one I made, but you'll find many other designs if you google 'saw vise'), or the most basic method which is to sandwhich your saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise.
> 
> 4) *A suitable saw set*. I would recommend either the Stanley No.42 or the Eclipse No.77. These are both vintage saw sets and are readily available on ebay.com for the Stanley No.42 and ebay.co.uk for the Eclipse No.77. If you intend to buy vintage, please research the saw set you intend to buy before bidding to ensure you know what you're looking for. There are new copies of the Eclipse design available today made by Somax which are available in the US and Canada from Tools for Working Wood. If you are in Europe you can buy the Somax saw sets from Axminster Tool Centre or Workshop Heaven.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Other items that are not essential but that I will be using in the video are:
> 
> 1) A packet of cigarette papers or feeler gauges (metric or imperial).
> 2) A flat reference surface such as the top of a table saw or bandsaw, a granite slab (kitchen worktop) or a sheet of float glass.
> 3) A fine tipped black permanent marker.
> 4) A fine diamond stone. This doesn't have to be as big as a bench stone that you would sharpen plane irons on. It can be a small diamond stone like you might use for touching up router bits.
> 5) A 4" long piece of scrap softwood (approximately 1" x 5/8")


Here's my order from McMaster Carr for saw files … they didn't have everything that's on your list exactly but they've got files in stock and will ship. Im uncertain as to what brand they are selling so I wanted to bounce it off the panel here:


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Shopping list for the upcoming saw sharpening video*
> 
> Preparations for the video are progressing well and I hope to start recording shortly. I was asked over on the Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread if I would put together a list of the things you will need to follow along with my upcoming saw sharpening video.
> 
> Here is a list of what I consider to be essential items:
> 
> 1) *A 10-12" second cut hand file for jointing the teeth*. You can use a shorter file if you are using a holder like the Veritas Jointer/Edger or one of the antique versions of a file holder. Some people also prefer to use a mill file for this operation.
> 
> 2) *The correct tapered saw file for the saw you intend to sharpen first*. I suggest you start with a rip-filed saw. It can be a backsaw like a tenon saw if you wish or a 24"-28" rip saw, but you might find sharpening a dovetail saw a bit challenging at first due to the small teeth. It is probably best to start on a saw with teeth in the range of 5ppi to 11ppi so you can see the teeth easily. See below for a list of the files that correspond to different size teeth. You will also need a suitable handle for the file you select.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the US and Canada, Grobet saw files are the best and are available from Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and Tools for Working Wood. In Europe, Vallorbe files are the best and are available from Classic Hand Tools and Axminster Tool Centre.
> 
> 3)* A means of holding your saw firmly while you file the teeth*. This could be one of the many vintage saw vises, the new saw vise from Tools for Working Wood, a home made saw vise (here's the one I made, but you'll find many other designs if you google 'saw vise'), or the most basic method which is to sandwhich your saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise.
> 
> 4) *A suitable saw set*. I would recommend either the Stanley No.42 or the Eclipse No.77. These are both vintage saw sets and are readily available on ebay.com for the Stanley No.42 and ebay.co.uk for the Eclipse No.77. If you intend to buy vintage, please research the saw set you intend to buy before bidding to ensure you know what you're looking for. There are new copies of the Eclipse design available today made by Somax which are available in the US and Canada from Tools for Working Wood. If you are in Europe you can buy the Somax saw sets from Axminster Tool Centre or Workshop Heaven.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Other items that are not essential but that I will be using in the video are:
> 
> 1) A packet of cigarette papers or feeler gauges (metric or imperial).
> 2) A flat reference surface such as the top of a table saw or bandsaw, a granite slab (kitchen worktop) or a sheet of float glass.
> 3) A fine tipped black permanent marker.
> 4) A fine diamond stone. This doesn't have to be as big as a bench stone that you would sharpen plane irons on. It can be a small diamond stone like you might use for touching up router bits.
> 5) A 4" long piece of scrap softwood (approximately 1" x 5/8")


I didn't even know they sold saw files Stef so I'm afraid I've got no idea if they are any good or not. Perhaps someone else has used them before.


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Shopping list for the upcoming saw sharpening video*
> 
> Preparations for the video are progressing well and I hope to start recording shortly. I was asked over on the Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread if I would put together a list of the things you will need to follow along with my upcoming saw sharpening video.
> 
> Here is a list of what I consider to be essential items:
> 
> 1) *A 10-12" second cut hand file for jointing the teeth*. You can use a shorter file if you are using a holder like the Veritas Jointer/Edger or one of the antique versions of a file holder. Some people also prefer to use a mill file for this operation.
> 
> 2) *The correct tapered saw file for the saw you intend to sharpen first*. I suggest you start with a rip-filed saw. It can be a backsaw like a tenon saw if you wish or a 24"-28" rip saw, but you might find sharpening a dovetail saw a bit challenging at first due to the small teeth. It is probably best to start on a saw with teeth in the range of 5ppi to 11ppi so you can see the teeth easily. See below for a list of the files that correspond to different size teeth. You will also need a suitable handle for the file you select.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the US and Canada, Grobet saw files are the best and are available from Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and Tools for Working Wood. In Europe, Vallorbe files are the best and are available from Classic Hand Tools and Axminster Tool Centre.
> 
> 3)* A means of holding your saw firmly while you file the teeth*. This could be one of the many vintage saw vises, the new saw vise from Tools for Working Wood, a home made saw vise (here's the one I made, but you'll find many other designs if you google 'saw vise'), or the most basic method which is to sandwhich your saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise.
> 
> 4) *A suitable saw set*. I would recommend either the Stanley No.42 or the Eclipse No.77. These are both vintage saw sets and are readily available on ebay.com for the Stanley No.42 and ebay.co.uk for the Eclipse No.77. If you intend to buy vintage, please research the saw set you intend to buy before bidding to ensure you know what you're looking for. There are new copies of the Eclipse design available today made by Somax which are available in the US and Canada from Tools for Working Wood. If you are in Europe you can buy the Somax saw sets from Axminster Tool Centre or Workshop Heaven.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Other items that are not essential but that I will be using in the video are:
> 
> 1) A packet of cigarette papers or feeler gauges (metric or imperial).
> 2) A flat reference surface such as the top of a table saw or bandsaw, a granite slab (kitchen worktop) or a sheet of float glass.
> 3) A fine tipped black permanent marker.
> 4) A fine diamond stone. This doesn't have to be as big as a bench stone that you would sharpen plane irons on. It can be a small diamond stone like you might use for touching up router bits.
> 5) A 4" long piece of scrap softwood (approximately 1" x 5/8")


They should be here shortly Andy so ill let ya know what they look like when ive got them in hand.


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Shopping list for the upcoming saw sharpening video*
> 
> Preparations for the video are progressing well and I hope to start recording shortly. I was asked over on the Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread if I would put together a list of the things you will need to follow along with my upcoming saw sharpening video.
> 
> Here is a list of what I consider to be essential items:
> 
> 1) *A 10-12" second cut hand file for jointing the teeth*. You can use a shorter file if you are using a holder like the Veritas Jointer/Edger or one of the antique versions of a file holder. Some people also prefer to use a mill file for this operation.
> 
> 2) *The correct tapered saw file for the saw you intend to sharpen first*. I suggest you start with a rip-filed saw. It can be a backsaw like a tenon saw if you wish or a 24"-28" rip saw, but you might find sharpening a dovetail saw a bit challenging at first due to the small teeth. It is probably best to start on a saw with teeth in the range of 5ppi to 11ppi so you can see the teeth easily. See below for a list of the files that correspond to different size teeth. You will also need a suitable handle for the file you select.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the US and Canada, Grobet saw files are the best and are available from Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and Tools for Working Wood. In Europe, Vallorbe files are the best and are available from Classic Hand Tools and Axminster Tool Centre.
> 
> 3)* A means of holding your saw firmly while you file the teeth*. This could be one of the many vintage saw vises, the new saw vise from Tools for Working Wood, a home made saw vise (here's the one I made, but you'll find many other designs if you google 'saw vise'), or the most basic method which is to sandwhich your saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise.
> 
> 4) *A suitable saw set*. I would recommend either the Stanley No.42 or the Eclipse No.77. These are both vintage saw sets and are readily available on ebay.com for the Stanley No.42 and ebay.co.uk for the Eclipse No.77. If you intend to buy vintage, please research the saw set you intend to buy before bidding to ensure you know what you're looking for. There are new copies of the Eclipse design available today made by Somax which are available in the US and Canada from Tools for Working Wood. If you are in Europe you can buy the Somax saw sets from Axminster Tool Centre or Workshop Heaven.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Other items that are not essential but that I will be using in the video are:
> 
> 1) A packet of cigarette papers or feeler gauges (metric or imperial).
> 2) A flat reference surface such as the top of a table saw or bandsaw, a granite slab (kitchen worktop) or a sheet of float glass.
> 3) A fine tipped black permanent marker.
> 4) A fine diamond stone. This doesn't have to be as big as a bench stone that you would sharpen plane irons on. It can be a small diamond stone like you might use for touching up router bits.
> 5) A 4" long piece of scrap softwood (approximately 1" x 5/8")


FWIW - McMaster Carr sells Nicholson files, made in mexico. They assured me that I wouldn't receive these files but alas, when I opened the box this morning, they were Nicholson. They're going back.


----------



## Brit

*The one that got away...*

I was going to save this one for later, but on the Saw, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread, Stumpynubs asked if anyone knew anything about W. H. Armitage saws. Well it just so happens that I do and here's what I've managed to find out.

Some time ago now I acquired a 14" brass-backed backsaw and just by looking at it, I can tell it is the oldest backsaw I own.










This saw plate is very rusty and black. There are a few missing teeth and the handle is loose and ill-fitting. Funny how the seller never mentioned that. This one is definitely going to be a challenge to bring back into service, if indeed the saw plate can be rescued. When it was new it would have been a first class saw, since it is made from London Spring Steel and has a brass back. The trade mark is a weird creature that has a horses head and front legs, but the rear half of the body kind of morphs into a curly tail.










You can see the logo more clearly in the drawing below.










If anyone knows what 'CAPS ANY.' means, please let me know. The initials W H stand for William Henry Armitage and this is what I have been able to find out about him from various online records. On 4th October 1833 he got married to one Rachel Cookson.










The London Gazette dated 24th July 1844 has the following entry:










So prior to 1844 he was in partnership with William Blackford (also a saw maker). The London Gazette dated 2nd February 1849 has this to add:










So between 1844 and 1849 he was in partnership with Alfred Parkinson and Adam Knowles. In 1852, W H Armitage & Co was registered at a house at 41 Netherthorpe Street in Sheffield. The street is still there, but it now has a block of flats and a primary school on it.










Netherthorpe is a district in Sheffield. The photograph below shows how it looked in the 19th century with row upon row of terraced houses and cobbled streets.










This was the environment in which this saw was made. The smoke from the furnaces turned all the buildings black. It is said that the tilt hammers could be heard and felt everywhere and the town shock with every blow. The tables in the public houses had bars around the edges to stop the glasses vibrating off onto the floor. The working conditions were atrocious for the working men and women of the day. The 'wet grinders' (the men who ground the saw plates) started work when they were 14 yrs old and by their early 20s, suffered from chronic asthma after breathing in steel and stone dust. Isn't it incredible that even in these conditions, they managed to turn out such high quality products that we now fight over on eBay?

I found an additional reference to confirm the Netherthorpe address at Backsaws.net who site Whites (a trades directory published in 1852) as their source.










If you look at the reference below the red line, it has William working out of the Burnt Tree Lane works in 1849 and the house on Netherthorpe Street. Burnt Tree Lane was only a short walk from Netherthorpe Street and just around the corner from a public house called *The Saw Makers' Arms*, which incidentally was later owned by Joshua Ibbotson (brother of Thomas). The following entry shows that in 1852, William went into partnership with John Pacey (also a saw maker) and they worked out of 31 Burnt Tree Lane together under the name of Pacey and Armitage.










In the following advertisement, you can see the type of products that bore their name.










I also found this entry on the OldTools Archive which has Pacey and Armitage at Burnt Tree Lane from 1852-1855 and confirms Armitage was working there before that in 1849.










On 20th October 1858, the partnership was dissolved and Pacey carried on the business alone.










The only other references I could find to W. H. Armitage after 1858 were three advertisements.

The first is dated 1876:










The second one (which is the same advert) is dated 1882.










And the third is dated 1890.










These advertisements tell us that from 1876 - 1890 W. H. Armitage & Co. were working out of the Vesuvius works on Henry Street in the Portmahon district of Sheffield. Notice that in the last advert, they claim that W.H. Armitage had been established for 50 years prior to 1890, so this tells us that William started in the saw making business in 1840.

Then I found this entry in the London Gazette dated 8th December 1891, which I think indicates William was getting out of the tool making business:










So where does that leave me in terms of dating my saw. Well at this point in my research all I could say was that it wasn't made between 1840 and January 1849, because W.H. was in various partnerships between those two dates. Also, it wasn't made between 1852 and 1858 when Armitage was in partnership with Pacey, since it doesn't bear the name Pacey and Armitage. However, it could have been made between 1849 and 1852 or any time after 1858 up until 1890. So although it was most enjoyable to sit in my armchair and play detective, all of the above information still left me wondering when my saw was made. I had to find another way of determining the saw's age and just when I was starting to think it would remain a mystery, I came across an article on WKFineTools.com entitled The Nineteenth Century American Back Saw written by Philip W Baker. Although the title refers to American back saws, much of what he has to say equally applies to English back saws. The article presents a study of the shape and features of back saw handles from the 19th century and shows how this information can help narrow down the year of manufacture.

Consider the following two handles. The one on the right is from my Armitage saw and the one on the left is from another saw in my possession which might make an appearance at the end of this blog series. One thing I can say for certain, is that the handle on the left was made in 1887.










Now it is time to play spot the difference. Apologies for not having a better camera, you'll just have to take my word for it as far as some of the features I'm going to point out are concerned.

*The Nibs*
Both handles have nibs between the base of the Hook and the base of the Top Horn. However, only my Armitage handle has a Bottom Nib. The article states that nibs started appearing at the top and bottom of handles around 1845, but at this time the nibs were rounded over and did not go to a point. Only after 1850, did they start to go to a point. In the photo above, the nib on the left handle goes to a point, but both nibs on my Armitage are of the rounded over variety. So this puts my handle between 1845 and 1850.

*The Cheeks*
On earlier saws, the cheeks were larger and covered more of the saw plate. The chamfer at the edge of the cheek was also larger. The cheeks started to become smaller around 1846. As you can see, the cheeks on my Armitage are larger than the handle on the left, indicating the saw is older. Notice too, how the Re-curve Break is more pointed and the shape of the lamb's tongue is more squashed to accommodate the larger cheek size. These features also support the fact that the saw is older.

*Thickness*
Older saw handles tended to be thicker than later handles. The Armitage measures in at 19/32" whilst the handle on the left comes in at 17/32", a whole 1/16" thinner.

When all is said and done, I believe Wiliam Henry Armitage made my saw around 1849-1850, just before he went into partnership with John Pacey. However, I would love to see a saw made by W.H. Armitage & Co at the Vesuvius works between 1876 and 1891 to be sure. Anyone got one? If so, please post a picture and put this sad Englishman out of his misery. 

I won't be restoring this one for a while yet. When I removed the handle I found that it will need a new saw plate since it is cracked between two of the holes. Although I have the steel, I just don't have the time at the moment unfortunately.














































Thanks for looking!


----------



## stefang

Brit said:


> *The one that got away...*
> 
> I was going to save this one for later, but on the Saw, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread, Stumpynubs asked if anyone knew anything about W. H. Armitage saws. Well it just so happens that I do and here's what I've managed to find out.
> 
> Some time ago now I acquired a 14" brass-backed backsaw and just by looking at it, I can tell it is the oldest backsaw I own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw plate is very rusty and black. There are a few missing teeth and the handle is loose and ill-fitting. Funny how the seller never mentioned that. This one is definitely going to be a challenge to bring back into service, if indeed the saw plate can be rescued. When it was new it would have been a first class saw, since it is made from London Spring Steel and has a brass back. The trade mark is a weird creature that has a horses head and front legs, but the rear half of the body kind of morphs into a curly tail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the logo more clearly in the drawing below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone knows what 'CAPS ANY.' means, please let me know. The initials W H stand for William Henry Armitage and this is what I have been able to find out about him from various online records. On 4th October 1833 he got married to one Rachel Cookson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The London Gazette dated 24th July 1844 has the following entry:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So prior to 1844 he was in partnership with William Blackford (also a saw maker). The London Gazette dated 2nd February 1849 has this to add:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So between 1844 and 1849 he was in partnership with Alfred Parkinson and Adam Knowles. In 1852, W H Armitage & Co was registered at a house at 41 Netherthorpe Street in Sheffield. The street is still there, but it now has a block of flats and a primary school on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Netherthorpe is a district in Sheffield. The photograph below shows how it looked in the 19th century with row upon row of terraced houses and cobbled streets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was the environment in which this saw was made. The smoke from the furnaces turned all the buildings black. It is said that the tilt hammers could be heard and felt everywhere and the town shock with every blow. The tables in the public houses had bars around the edges to stop the glasses vibrating off onto the floor. The working conditions were atrocious for the working men and women of the day. The 'wet grinders' (the men who ground the saw plates) started work when they were 14 yrs old and by their early 20s, suffered from chronic asthma after breathing in steel and stone dust. Isn't it incredible that even in these conditions, they managed to turn out such high quality products that we now fight over on eBay?
> 
> I found an additional reference to confirm the Netherthorpe address at Backsaws.net who site Whites (a trades directory published in 1852) as their source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the reference below the red line, it has William working out of the Burnt Tree Lane works in 1849 and the house on Netherthorpe Street. Burnt Tree Lane was only a short walk from Netherthorpe Street and just around the corner from a public house called *The Saw Makers' Arms*, which incidentally was later owned by Joshua Ibbotson (brother of Thomas). The following entry shows that in 1852, William went into partnership with John Pacey (also a saw maker) and they worked out of 31 Burnt Tree Lane together under the name of Pacey and Armitage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the following advertisement, you can see the type of products that bore their name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also found this entry on the OldTools Archive which has Pacey and Armitage at Burnt Tree Lane from 1852-1855 and confirms Armitage was working there before that in 1849.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 20th October 1858, the partnership was dissolved and Pacey carried on the business alone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only other references I could find to W. H. Armitage after 1858 were three advertisements.
> 
> The first is dated 1876:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second one (which is the same advert) is dated 1882.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the third is dated 1890.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These advertisements tell us that from 1876 - 1890 W. H. Armitage & Co. were working out of the Vesuvius works on Henry Street in the Portmahon district of Sheffield. Notice that in the last advert, they claim that W.H. Armitage had been established for 50 years prior to 1890, so this tells us that William started in the saw making business in 1840.
> 
> Then I found this entry in the London Gazette dated 8th December 1891, which I think indicates William was getting out of the tool making business:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So where does that leave me in terms of dating my saw. Well at this point in my research all I could say was that it wasn't made between 1840 and January 1849, because W.H. was in various partnerships between those two dates. Also, it wasn't made between 1852 and 1858 when Armitage was in partnership with Pacey, since it doesn't bear the name Pacey and Armitage. However, it could have been made between 1849 and 1852 or any time after 1858 up until 1890. So although it was most enjoyable to sit in my armchair and play detective, all of the above information still left me wondering when my saw was made. I had to find another way of determining the saw's age and just when I was starting to think it would remain a mystery, I came across an article on WKFineTools.com entitled The Nineteenth Century American Back Saw written by Philip W Baker. Although the title refers to American back saws, much of what he has to say equally applies to English back saws. The article presents a study of the shape and features of back saw handles from the 19th century and shows how this information can help narrow down the year of manufacture.
> 
> Consider the following two handles. The one on the right is from my Armitage saw and the one on the left is from another saw in my possession which might make an appearance at the end of this blog series. One thing I can say for certain, is that the handle on the left was made in 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it is time to play spot the difference. Apologies for not having a better camera, you'll just have to take my word for it as far as some of the features I'm going to point out are concerned.
> 
> *The Nibs*
> Both handles have nibs between the base of the Hook and the base of the Top Horn. However, only my Armitage handle has a Bottom Nib. The article states that nibs started appearing at the top and bottom of handles around 1845, but at this time the nibs were rounded over and did not go to a point. Only after 1850, did they start to go to a point. In the photo above, the nib on the left handle goes to a point, but both nibs on my Armitage are of the rounded over variety. So this puts my handle between 1845 and 1850.
> 
> *The Cheeks*
> On earlier saws, the cheeks were larger and covered more of the saw plate. The chamfer at the edge of the cheek was also larger. The cheeks started to become smaller around 1846. As you can see, the cheeks on my Armitage are larger than the handle on the left, indicating the saw is older. Notice too, how the Re-curve Break is more pointed and the shape of the lamb's tongue is more squashed to accommodate the larger cheek size. These features also support the fact that the saw is older.
> 
> *Thickness*
> Older saw handles tended to be thicker than later handles. The Armitage measures in at 19/32" whilst the handle on the left comes in at 17/32", a whole 1/16" thinner.
> 
> When all is said and done, I believe Wiliam Henry Armitage made my saw around 1849-1850, just before he went into partnership with John Pacey. However, I would love to see a saw made by W.H. Armitage & Co at the Vesuvius works between 1876 and 1891 to be sure. Anyone got one? If so, please post a picture and put this sad Englishman out of his misery. 
> 
> I won't be restoring this one for a while yet. When I removed the handle I found that it will need a new saw plate since it is cracked between two of the holes. Although I have the steel, I just don't have the time at the moment unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for looking!


Interesting history Andy and your detective work is right up there with Sherlock's. With a little luck you will soon solve this mystery. It's too bad these tools weren't series or date stamped.


----------



## StumpyNubs

Brit said:


> *The one that got away...*
> 
> I was going to save this one for later, but on the Saw, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread, Stumpynubs asked if anyone knew anything about W. H. Armitage saws. Well it just so happens that I do and here's what I've managed to find out.
> 
> Some time ago now I acquired a 14" brass-backed backsaw and just by looking at it, I can tell it is the oldest backsaw I own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw plate is very rusty and black. There are a few missing teeth and the handle is loose and ill-fitting. Funny how the seller never mentioned that. This one is definitely going to be a challenge to bring back into service, if indeed the saw plate can be rescued. When it was new it would have been a first class saw, since it is made from London Spring Steel and has a brass back. The trade mark is a weird creature that has a horses head and front legs, but the rear half of the body kind of morphs into a curly tail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the logo more clearly in the drawing below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone knows what 'CAPS ANY.' means, please let me know. The initials W H stand for William Henry Armitage and this is what I have been able to find out about him from various online records. On 4th October 1833 he got married to one Rachel Cookson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The London Gazette dated 24th July 1844 has the following entry:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So prior to 1844 he was in partnership with William Blackford (also a saw maker). The London Gazette dated 2nd February 1849 has this to add:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So between 1844 and 1849 he was in partnership with Alfred Parkinson and Adam Knowles. In 1852, W H Armitage & Co was registered at a house at 41 Netherthorpe Street in Sheffield. The street is still there, but it now has a block of flats and a primary school on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Netherthorpe is a district in Sheffield. The photograph below shows how it looked in the 19th century with row upon row of terraced houses and cobbled streets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was the environment in which this saw was made. The smoke from the furnaces turned all the buildings black. It is said that the tilt hammers could be heard and felt everywhere and the town shock with every blow. The tables in the public houses had bars around the edges to stop the glasses vibrating off onto the floor. The working conditions were atrocious for the working men and women of the day. The 'wet grinders' (the men who ground the saw plates) started work when they were 14 yrs old and by their early 20s, suffered from chronic asthma after breathing in steel and stone dust. Isn't it incredible that even in these conditions, they managed to turn out such high quality products that we now fight over on eBay?
> 
> I found an additional reference to confirm the Netherthorpe address at Backsaws.net who site Whites (a trades directory published in 1852) as their source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the reference below the red line, it has William working out of the Burnt Tree Lane works in 1849 and the house on Netherthorpe Street. Burnt Tree Lane was only a short walk from Netherthorpe Street and just around the corner from a public house called *The Saw Makers' Arms*, which incidentally was later owned by Joshua Ibbotson (brother of Thomas). The following entry shows that in 1852, William went into partnership with John Pacey (also a saw maker) and they worked out of 31 Burnt Tree Lane together under the name of Pacey and Armitage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the following advertisement, you can see the type of products that bore their name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also found this entry on the OldTools Archive which has Pacey and Armitage at Burnt Tree Lane from 1852-1855 and confirms Armitage was working there before that in 1849.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 20th October 1858, the partnership was dissolved and Pacey carried on the business alone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only other references I could find to W. H. Armitage after 1858 were three advertisements.
> 
> The first is dated 1876:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second one (which is the same advert) is dated 1882.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the third is dated 1890.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These advertisements tell us that from 1876 - 1890 W. H. Armitage & Co. were working out of the Vesuvius works on Henry Street in the Portmahon district of Sheffield. Notice that in the last advert, they claim that W.H. Armitage had been established for 50 years prior to 1890, so this tells us that William started in the saw making business in 1840.
> 
> Then I found this entry in the London Gazette dated 8th December 1891, which I think indicates William was getting out of the tool making business:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So where does that leave me in terms of dating my saw. Well at this point in my research all I could say was that it wasn't made between 1840 and January 1849, because W.H. was in various partnerships between those two dates. Also, it wasn't made between 1852 and 1858 when Armitage was in partnership with Pacey, since it doesn't bear the name Pacey and Armitage. However, it could have been made between 1849 and 1852 or any time after 1858 up until 1890. So although it was most enjoyable to sit in my armchair and play detective, all of the above information still left me wondering when my saw was made. I had to find another way of determining the saw's age and just when I was starting to think it would remain a mystery, I came across an article on WKFineTools.com entitled The Nineteenth Century American Back Saw written by Philip W Baker. Although the title refers to American back saws, much of what he has to say equally applies to English back saws. The article presents a study of the shape and features of back saw handles from the 19th century and shows how this information can help narrow down the year of manufacture.
> 
> Consider the following two handles. The one on the right is from my Armitage saw and the one on the left is from another saw in my possession which might make an appearance at the end of this blog series. One thing I can say for certain, is that the handle on the left was made in 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it is time to play spot the difference. Apologies for not having a better camera, you'll just have to take my word for it as far as some of the features I'm going to point out are concerned.
> 
> *The Nibs*
> Both handles have nibs between the base of the Hook and the base of the Top Horn. However, only my Armitage handle has a Bottom Nib. The article states that nibs started appearing at the top and bottom of handles around 1845, but at this time the nibs were rounded over and did not go to a point. Only after 1850, did they start to go to a point. In the photo above, the nib on the left handle goes to a point, but both nibs on my Armitage are of the rounded over variety. So this puts my handle between 1845 and 1850.
> 
> *The Cheeks*
> On earlier saws, the cheeks were larger and covered more of the saw plate. The chamfer at the edge of the cheek was also larger. The cheeks started to become smaller around 1846. As you can see, the cheeks on my Armitage are larger than the handle on the left, indicating the saw is older. Notice too, how the Re-curve Break is more pointed and the shape of the lamb's tongue is more squashed to accommodate the larger cheek size. These features also support the fact that the saw is older.
> 
> *Thickness*
> Older saw handles tended to be thicker than later handles. The Armitage measures in at 19/32" whilst the handle on the left comes in at 17/32", a whole 1/16" thinner.
> 
> When all is said and done, I believe Wiliam Henry Armitage made my saw around 1849-1850, just before he went into partnership with John Pacey. However, I would love to see a saw made by W.H. Armitage & Co at the Vesuvius works between 1876 and 1891 to be sure. Anyone got one? If so, please post a picture and put this sad Englishman out of his misery. 
> 
> I won't be restoring this one for a while yet. When I removed the handle I found that it will need a new saw plate since it is cracked between two of the holes. Although I have the steel, I just don't have the time at the moment unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for looking!


Great work indeed!

One thing I might mention, your saw says "W H Armitage & Co" which implies that he was in partnership with someone at the time it was made. If he was the most senior partner, or for whatever reason, the name of the lesser partner may not have actually have appeared on the saw. I say this because my saw, which I posted on the saw thread looking for help on dating, says just "W H Armitage", no "Co". It also has all the handle features of a very early saw.

Not that the fact that he was in business with someone else changes the age of your saw. It simply means it didn't have to be made before his partnership with Pacey. I suspect mine was made before any partnership, and yours was made after.

I wonder if a couple of differences may help in dating as well: Yours has a medallion, mine does not. Yours has a stamped trade mark design, mine does not. And yours says "London", mine says "Sheffield". I don't think the "London" on yours refers to the steel. Its position on the saw under the name indicates that it is the firm's place of business. So, find out when he was in a partnership in London, and you may find out a great deal about your saw.


----------



## JoeinGa

Brit said:


> *The one that got away...*
> 
> I was going to save this one for later, but on the Saw, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread, Stumpynubs asked if anyone knew anything about W. H. Armitage saws. Well it just so happens that I do and here's what I've managed to find out.
> 
> Some time ago now I acquired a 14" brass-backed backsaw and just by looking at it, I can tell it is the oldest backsaw I own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw plate is very rusty and black. There are a few missing teeth and the handle is loose and ill-fitting. Funny how the seller never mentioned that. This one is definitely going to be a challenge to bring back into service, if indeed the saw plate can be rescued. When it was new it would have been a first class saw, since it is made from London Spring Steel and has a brass back. The trade mark is a weird creature that has a horses head and front legs, but the rear half of the body kind of morphs into a curly tail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the logo more clearly in the drawing below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone knows what 'CAPS ANY.' means, please let me know. The initials W H stand for William Henry Armitage and this is what I have been able to find out about him from various online records. On 4th October 1833 he got married to one Rachel Cookson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The London Gazette dated 24th July 1844 has the following entry:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So prior to 1844 he was in partnership with William Blackford (also a saw maker). The London Gazette dated 2nd February 1849 has this to add:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So between 1844 and 1849 he was in partnership with Alfred Parkinson and Adam Knowles. In 1852, W H Armitage & Co was registered at a house at 41 Netherthorpe Street in Sheffield. The street is still there, but it now has a block of flats and a primary school on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Netherthorpe is a district in Sheffield. The photograph below shows how it looked in the 19th century with row upon row of terraced houses and cobbled streets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was the environment in which this saw was made. The smoke from the furnaces turned all the buildings black. It is said that the tilt hammers could be heard and felt everywhere and the town shock with every blow. The tables in the public houses had bars around the edges to stop the glasses vibrating off onto the floor. The working conditions were atrocious for the working men and women of the day. The 'wet grinders' (the men who ground the saw plates) started work when they were 14 yrs old and by their early 20s, suffered from chronic asthma after breathing in steel and stone dust. Isn't it incredible that even in these conditions, they managed to turn out such high quality products that we now fight over on eBay?
> 
> I found an additional reference to confirm the Netherthorpe address at Backsaws.net who site Whites (a trades directory published in 1852) as their source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the reference below the red line, it has William working out of the Burnt Tree Lane works in 1849 and the house on Netherthorpe Street. Burnt Tree Lane was only a short walk from Netherthorpe Street and just around the corner from a public house called *The Saw Makers' Arms*, which incidentally was later owned by Joshua Ibbotson (brother of Thomas). The following entry shows that in 1852, William went into partnership with John Pacey (also a saw maker) and they worked out of 31 Burnt Tree Lane together under the name of Pacey and Armitage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the following advertisement, you can see the type of products that bore their name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also found this entry on the OldTools Archive which has Pacey and Armitage at Burnt Tree Lane from 1852-1855 and confirms Armitage was working there before that in 1849.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 20th October 1858, the partnership was dissolved and Pacey carried on the business alone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only other references I could find to W. H. Armitage after 1858 were three advertisements.
> 
> The first is dated 1876:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second one (which is the same advert) is dated 1882.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the third is dated 1890.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These advertisements tell us that from 1876 - 1890 W. H. Armitage & Co. were working out of the Vesuvius works on Henry Street in the Portmahon district of Sheffield. Notice that in the last advert, they claim that W.H. Armitage had been established for 50 years prior to 1890, so this tells us that William started in the saw making business in 1840.
> 
> Then I found this entry in the London Gazette dated 8th December 1891, which I think indicates William was getting out of the tool making business:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So where does that leave me in terms of dating my saw. Well at this point in my research all I could say was that it wasn't made between 1840 and January 1849, because W.H. was in various partnerships between those two dates. Also, it wasn't made between 1852 and 1858 when Armitage was in partnership with Pacey, since it doesn't bear the name Pacey and Armitage. However, it could have been made between 1849 and 1852 or any time after 1858 up until 1890. So although it was most enjoyable to sit in my armchair and play detective, all of the above information still left me wondering when my saw was made. I had to find another way of determining the saw's age and just when I was starting to think it would remain a mystery, I came across an article on WKFineTools.com entitled The Nineteenth Century American Back Saw written by Philip W Baker. Although the title refers to American back saws, much of what he has to say equally applies to English back saws. The article presents a study of the shape and features of back saw handles from the 19th century and shows how this information can help narrow down the year of manufacture.
> 
> Consider the following two handles. The one on the right is from my Armitage saw and the one on the left is from another saw in my possession which might make an appearance at the end of this blog series. One thing I can say for certain, is that the handle on the left was made in 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it is time to play spot the difference. Apologies for not having a better camera, you'll just have to take my word for it as far as some of the features I'm going to point out are concerned.
> 
> *The Nibs*
> Both handles have nibs between the base of the Hook and the base of the Top Horn. However, only my Armitage handle has a Bottom Nib. The article states that nibs started appearing at the top and bottom of handles around 1845, but at this time the nibs were rounded over and did not go to a point. Only after 1850, did they start to go to a point. In the photo above, the nib on the left handle goes to a point, but both nibs on my Armitage are of the rounded over variety. So this puts my handle between 1845 and 1850.
> 
> *The Cheeks*
> On earlier saws, the cheeks were larger and covered more of the saw plate. The chamfer at the edge of the cheek was also larger. The cheeks started to become smaller around 1846. As you can see, the cheeks on my Armitage are larger than the handle on the left, indicating the saw is older. Notice too, how the Re-curve Break is more pointed and the shape of the lamb's tongue is more squashed to accommodate the larger cheek size. These features also support the fact that the saw is older.
> 
> *Thickness*
> Older saw handles tended to be thicker than later handles. The Armitage measures in at 19/32" whilst the handle on the left comes in at 17/32", a whole 1/16" thinner.
> 
> When all is said and done, I believe Wiliam Henry Armitage made my saw around 1849-1850, just before he went into partnership with John Pacey. However, I would love to see a saw made by W.H. Armitage & Co at the Vesuvius works between 1876 and 1891 to be sure. Anyone got one? If so, please post a picture and put this sad Englishman out of his misery. 
> 
> I won't be restoring this one for a while yet. When I removed the handle I found that it will need a new saw plate since it is cracked between two of the holes. Although I have the steel, I just don't have the time at the moment unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for looking!


Nice saw, Good story. Great detective work


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *The one that got away...*
> 
> I was going to save this one for later, but on the Saw, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread, Stumpynubs asked if anyone knew anything about W. H. Armitage saws. Well it just so happens that I do and here's what I've managed to find out.
> 
> Some time ago now I acquired a 14" brass-backed backsaw and just by looking at it, I can tell it is the oldest backsaw I own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw plate is very rusty and black. There are a few missing teeth and the handle is loose and ill-fitting. Funny how the seller never mentioned that. This one is definitely going to be a challenge to bring back into service, if indeed the saw plate can be rescued. When it was new it would have been a first class saw, since it is made from London Spring Steel and has a brass back. The trade mark is a weird creature that has a horses head and front legs, but the rear half of the body kind of morphs into a curly tail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the logo more clearly in the drawing below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone knows what 'CAPS ANY.' means, please let me know. The initials W H stand for William Henry Armitage and this is what I have been able to find out about him from various online records. On 4th October 1833 he got married to one Rachel Cookson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The London Gazette dated 24th July 1844 has the following entry:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So prior to 1844 he was in partnership with William Blackford (also a saw maker). The London Gazette dated 2nd February 1849 has this to add:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So between 1844 and 1849 he was in partnership with Alfred Parkinson and Adam Knowles. In 1852, W H Armitage & Co was registered at a house at 41 Netherthorpe Street in Sheffield. The street is still there, but it now has a block of flats and a primary school on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Netherthorpe is a district in Sheffield. The photograph below shows how it looked in the 19th century with row upon row of terraced houses and cobbled streets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was the environment in which this saw was made. The smoke from the furnaces turned all the buildings black. It is said that the tilt hammers could be heard and felt everywhere and the town shock with every blow. The tables in the public houses had bars around the edges to stop the glasses vibrating off onto the floor. The working conditions were atrocious for the working men and women of the day. The 'wet grinders' (the men who ground the saw plates) started work when they were 14 yrs old and by their early 20s, suffered from chronic asthma after breathing in steel and stone dust. Isn't it incredible that even in these conditions, they managed to turn out such high quality products that we now fight over on eBay?
> 
> I found an additional reference to confirm the Netherthorpe address at Backsaws.net who site Whites (a trades directory published in 1852) as their source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the reference below the red line, it has William working out of the Burnt Tree Lane works in 1849 and the house on Netherthorpe Street. Burnt Tree Lane was only a short walk from Netherthorpe Street and just around the corner from a public house called *The Saw Makers' Arms*, which incidentally was later owned by Joshua Ibbotson (brother of Thomas). The following entry shows that in 1852, William went into partnership with John Pacey (also a saw maker) and they worked out of 31 Burnt Tree Lane together under the name of Pacey and Armitage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the following advertisement, you can see the type of products that bore their name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also found this entry on the OldTools Archive which has Pacey and Armitage at Burnt Tree Lane from 1852-1855 and confirms Armitage was working there before that in 1849.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 20th October 1858, the partnership was dissolved and Pacey carried on the business alone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only other references I could find to W. H. Armitage after 1858 were three advertisements.
> 
> The first is dated 1876:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second one (which is the same advert) is dated 1882.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the third is dated 1890.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These advertisements tell us that from 1876 - 1890 W. H. Armitage & Co. were working out of the Vesuvius works on Henry Street in the Portmahon district of Sheffield. Notice that in the last advert, they claim that W.H. Armitage had been established for 50 years prior to 1890, so this tells us that William started in the saw making business in 1840.
> 
> Then I found this entry in the London Gazette dated 8th December 1891, which I think indicates William was getting out of the tool making business:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So where does that leave me in terms of dating my saw. Well at this point in my research all I could say was that it wasn't made between 1840 and January 1849, because W.H. was in various partnerships between those two dates. Also, it wasn't made between 1852 and 1858 when Armitage was in partnership with Pacey, since it doesn't bear the name Pacey and Armitage. However, it could have been made between 1849 and 1852 or any time after 1858 up until 1890. So although it was most enjoyable to sit in my armchair and play detective, all of the above information still left me wondering when my saw was made. I had to find another way of determining the saw's age and just when I was starting to think it would remain a mystery, I came across an article on WKFineTools.com entitled The Nineteenth Century American Back Saw written by Philip W Baker. Although the title refers to American back saws, much of what he has to say equally applies to English back saws. The article presents a study of the shape and features of back saw handles from the 19th century and shows how this information can help narrow down the year of manufacture.
> 
> Consider the following two handles. The one on the right is from my Armitage saw and the one on the left is from another saw in my possession which might make an appearance at the end of this blog series. One thing I can say for certain, is that the handle on the left was made in 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it is time to play spot the difference. Apologies for not having a better camera, you'll just have to take my word for it as far as some of the features I'm going to point out are concerned.
> 
> *The Nibs*
> Both handles have nibs between the base of the Hook and the base of the Top Horn. However, only my Armitage handle has a Bottom Nib. The article states that nibs started appearing at the top and bottom of handles around 1845, but at this time the nibs were rounded over and did not go to a point. Only after 1850, did they start to go to a point. In the photo above, the nib on the left handle goes to a point, but both nibs on my Armitage are of the rounded over variety. So this puts my handle between 1845 and 1850.
> 
> *The Cheeks*
> On earlier saws, the cheeks were larger and covered more of the saw plate. The chamfer at the edge of the cheek was also larger. The cheeks started to become smaller around 1846. As you can see, the cheeks on my Armitage are larger than the handle on the left, indicating the saw is older. Notice too, how the Re-curve Break is more pointed and the shape of the lamb's tongue is more squashed to accommodate the larger cheek size. These features also support the fact that the saw is older.
> 
> *Thickness*
> Older saw handles tended to be thicker than later handles. The Armitage measures in at 19/32" whilst the handle on the left comes in at 17/32", a whole 1/16" thinner.
> 
> When all is said and done, I believe Wiliam Henry Armitage made my saw around 1849-1850, just before he went into partnership with John Pacey. However, I would love to see a saw made by W.H. Armitage & Co at the Vesuvius works between 1876 and 1891 to be sure. Anyone got one? If so, please post a picture and put this sad Englishman out of his misery. 
> 
> I won't be restoring this one for a while yet. When I removed the handle I found that it will need a new saw plate since it is cracked between two of the holes. Although I have the steel, I just don't have the time at the moment unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for looking!


Nice work on the story Andy. Good luck on the "caps any".
And the break down of the handle were great.
In searching I did find this
http://www.tgiag.com/saw-handle-scans.html
Brit great work as usual.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *The one that got away...*
> 
> I was going to save this one for later, but on the Saw, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread, Stumpynubs asked if anyone knew anything about W. H. Armitage saws. Well it just so happens that I do and here's what I've managed to find out.
> 
> Some time ago now I acquired a 14" brass-backed backsaw and just by looking at it, I can tell it is the oldest backsaw I own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw plate is very rusty and black. There are a few missing teeth and the handle is loose and ill-fitting. Funny how the seller never mentioned that. This one is definitely going to be a challenge to bring back into service, if indeed the saw plate can be rescued. When it was new it would have been a first class saw, since it is made from London Spring Steel and has a brass back. The trade mark is a weird creature that has a horses head and front legs, but the rear half of the body kind of morphs into a curly tail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the logo more clearly in the drawing below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone knows what 'CAPS ANY.' means, please let me know. The initials W H stand for William Henry Armitage and this is what I have been able to find out about him from various online records. On 4th October 1833 he got married to one Rachel Cookson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The London Gazette dated 24th July 1844 has the following entry:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So prior to 1844 he was in partnership with William Blackford (also a saw maker). The London Gazette dated 2nd February 1849 has this to add:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So between 1844 and 1849 he was in partnership with Alfred Parkinson and Adam Knowles. In 1852, W H Armitage & Co was registered at a house at 41 Netherthorpe Street in Sheffield. The street is still there, but it now has a block of flats and a primary school on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Netherthorpe is a district in Sheffield. The photograph below shows how it looked in the 19th century with row upon row of terraced houses and cobbled streets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was the environment in which this saw was made. The smoke from the furnaces turned all the buildings black. It is said that the tilt hammers could be heard and felt everywhere and the town shock with every blow. The tables in the public houses had bars around the edges to stop the glasses vibrating off onto the floor. The working conditions were atrocious for the working men and women of the day. The 'wet grinders' (the men who ground the saw plates) started work when they were 14 yrs old and by their early 20s, suffered from chronic asthma after breathing in steel and stone dust. Isn't it incredible that even in these conditions, they managed to turn out such high quality products that we now fight over on eBay?
> 
> I found an additional reference to confirm the Netherthorpe address at Backsaws.net who site Whites (a trades directory published in 1852) as their source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the reference below the red line, it has William working out of the Burnt Tree Lane works in 1849 and the house on Netherthorpe Street. Burnt Tree Lane was only a short walk from Netherthorpe Street and just around the corner from a public house called *The Saw Makers' Arms*, which incidentally was later owned by Joshua Ibbotson (brother of Thomas). The following entry shows that in 1852, William went into partnership with John Pacey (also a saw maker) and they worked out of 31 Burnt Tree Lane together under the name of Pacey and Armitage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the following advertisement, you can see the type of products that bore their name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also found this entry on the OldTools Archive which has Pacey and Armitage at Burnt Tree Lane from 1852-1855 and confirms Armitage was working there before that in 1849.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 20th October 1858, the partnership was dissolved and Pacey carried on the business alone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only other references I could find to W. H. Armitage after 1858 were three advertisements.
> 
> The first is dated 1876:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second one (which is the same advert) is dated 1882.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the third is dated 1890.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These advertisements tell us that from 1876 - 1890 W. H. Armitage & Co. were working out of the Vesuvius works on Henry Street in the Portmahon district of Sheffield. Notice that in the last advert, they claim that W.H. Armitage had been established for 50 years prior to 1890, so this tells us that William started in the saw making business in 1840.
> 
> Then I found this entry in the London Gazette dated 8th December 1891, which I think indicates William was getting out of the tool making business:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So where does that leave me in terms of dating my saw. Well at this point in my research all I could say was that it wasn't made between 1840 and January 1849, because W.H. was in various partnerships between those two dates. Also, it wasn't made between 1852 and 1858 when Armitage was in partnership with Pacey, since it doesn't bear the name Pacey and Armitage. However, it could have been made between 1849 and 1852 or any time after 1858 up until 1890. So although it was most enjoyable to sit in my armchair and play detective, all of the above information still left me wondering when my saw was made. I had to find another way of determining the saw's age and just when I was starting to think it would remain a mystery, I came across an article on WKFineTools.com entitled The Nineteenth Century American Back Saw written by Philip W Baker. Although the title refers to American back saws, much of what he has to say equally applies to English back saws. The article presents a study of the shape and features of back saw handles from the 19th century and shows how this information can help narrow down the year of manufacture.
> 
> Consider the following two handles. The one on the right is from my Armitage saw and the one on the left is from another saw in my possession which might make an appearance at the end of this blog series. One thing I can say for certain, is that the handle on the left was made in 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it is time to play spot the difference. Apologies for not having a better camera, you'll just have to take my word for it as far as some of the features I'm going to point out are concerned.
> 
> *The Nibs*
> Both handles have nibs between the base of the Hook and the base of the Top Horn. However, only my Armitage handle has a Bottom Nib. The article states that nibs started appearing at the top and bottom of handles around 1845, but at this time the nibs were rounded over and did not go to a point. Only after 1850, did they start to go to a point. In the photo above, the nib on the left handle goes to a point, but both nibs on my Armitage are of the rounded over variety. So this puts my handle between 1845 and 1850.
> 
> *The Cheeks*
> On earlier saws, the cheeks were larger and covered more of the saw plate. The chamfer at the edge of the cheek was also larger. The cheeks started to become smaller around 1846. As you can see, the cheeks on my Armitage are larger than the handle on the left, indicating the saw is older. Notice too, how the Re-curve Break is more pointed and the shape of the lamb's tongue is more squashed to accommodate the larger cheek size. These features also support the fact that the saw is older.
> 
> *Thickness*
> Older saw handles tended to be thicker than later handles. The Armitage measures in at 19/32" whilst the handle on the left comes in at 17/32", a whole 1/16" thinner.
> 
> When all is said and done, I believe Wiliam Henry Armitage made my saw around 1849-1850, just before he went into partnership with John Pacey. However, I would love to see a saw made by W.H. Armitage & Co at the Vesuvius works between 1876 and 1891 to be sure. Anyone got one? If so, please post a picture and put this sad Englishman out of his misery. 
> 
> I won't be restoring this one for a while yet. When I removed the handle I found that it will need a new saw plate since it is cracked between two of the holes. Although I have the steel, I just don't have the time at the moment unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for looking!


*Stumpy* - You're probably right about yours being earlier for the reasons you state. My saw was probabbly made after 1876. The '& Co.' does not necessarily mean he was in partnership with someone else. It just means that he registered his company at Companies House (or whatever it was called in those days). The ability to register a company in the UK was made available from 1844 onwards.

I do think the London refers to London Spring Steel. In those days, the making of steel was a closely guarded secret and saw manufacturers were always trying to outdo each other by coming up with more outrageous names for the steel used to make their saw plates. You will find saws with:


Cast steel
Refined cast steel
London spring steel
Refined London spring steel
Extra refined London spring steel

I presume their thought process was that anyone in the market for a saw would rather buy a saw made from 'extra' refined london spring steel than a saw that simply made from refined London spring steel. All of these supposed types of steel were in fact essentially the same and it was just a marketing ploy to sell more saws.

I did look to see if W. H. Armitage & Co. were ever in London and I couldn't find any record of them being located there, but I'll have another look.

By the way the saws he made with Pacey actually have Pacey & Armitage on them, so I don't think mine was made during their partnership.










The plot thickens….

When you get a chance, please can you let me know the thickness of your handle.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *The one that got away...*
> 
> I was going to save this one for later, but on the Saw, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread, Stumpynubs asked if anyone knew anything about W. H. Armitage saws. Well it just so happens that I do and here's what I've managed to find out.
> 
> Some time ago now I acquired a 14" brass-backed backsaw and just by looking at it, I can tell it is the oldest backsaw I own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw plate is very rusty and black. There are a few missing teeth and the handle is loose and ill-fitting. Funny how the seller never mentioned that. This one is definitely going to be a challenge to bring back into service, if indeed the saw plate can be rescued. When it was new it would have been a first class saw, since it is made from London Spring Steel and has a brass back. The trade mark is a weird creature that has a horses head and front legs, but the rear half of the body kind of morphs into a curly tail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the logo more clearly in the drawing below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone knows what 'CAPS ANY.' means, please let me know. The initials W H stand for William Henry Armitage and this is what I have been able to find out about him from various online records. On 4th October 1833 he got married to one Rachel Cookson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The London Gazette dated 24th July 1844 has the following entry:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So prior to 1844 he was in partnership with William Blackford (also a saw maker). The London Gazette dated 2nd February 1849 has this to add:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So between 1844 and 1849 he was in partnership with Alfred Parkinson and Adam Knowles. In 1852, W H Armitage & Co was registered at a house at 41 Netherthorpe Street in Sheffield. The street is still there, but it now has a block of flats and a primary school on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Netherthorpe is a district in Sheffield. The photograph below shows how it looked in the 19th century with row upon row of terraced houses and cobbled streets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was the environment in which this saw was made. The smoke from the furnaces turned all the buildings black. It is said that the tilt hammers could be heard and felt everywhere and the town shock with every blow. The tables in the public houses had bars around the edges to stop the glasses vibrating off onto the floor. The working conditions were atrocious for the working men and women of the day. The 'wet grinders' (the men who ground the saw plates) started work when they were 14 yrs old and by their early 20s, suffered from chronic asthma after breathing in steel and stone dust. Isn't it incredible that even in these conditions, they managed to turn out such high quality products that we now fight over on eBay?
> 
> I found an additional reference to confirm the Netherthorpe address at Backsaws.net who site Whites (a trades directory published in 1852) as their source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the reference below the red line, it has William working out of the Burnt Tree Lane works in 1849 and the house on Netherthorpe Street. Burnt Tree Lane was only a short walk from Netherthorpe Street and just around the corner from a public house called *The Saw Makers' Arms*, which incidentally was later owned by Joshua Ibbotson (brother of Thomas). The following entry shows that in 1852, William went into partnership with John Pacey (also a saw maker) and they worked out of 31 Burnt Tree Lane together under the name of Pacey and Armitage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the following advertisement, you can see the type of products that bore their name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also found this entry on the OldTools Archive which has Pacey and Armitage at Burnt Tree Lane from 1852-1855 and confirms Armitage was working there before that in 1849.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 20th October 1858, the partnership was dissolved and Pacey carried on the business alone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only other references I could find to W. H. Armitage after 1858 were three advertisements.
> 
> The first is dated 1876:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second one (which is the same advert) is dated 1882.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the third is dated 1890.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These advertisements tell us that from 1876 - 1890 W. H. Armitage & Co. were working out of the Vesuvius works on Henry Street in the Portmahon district of Sheffield. Notice that in the last advert, they claim that W.H. Armitage had been established for 50 years prior to 1890, so this tells us that William started in the saw making business in 1840.
> 
> Then I found this entry in the London Gazette dated 8th December 1891, which I think indicates William was getting out of the tool making business:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So where does that leave me in terms of dating my saw. Well at this point in my research all I could say was that it wasn't made between 1840 and January 1849, because W.H. was in various partnerships between those two dates. Also, it wasn't made between 1852 and 1858 when Armitage was in partnership with Pacey, since it doesn't bear the name Pacey and Armitage. However, it could have been made between 1849 and 1852 or any time after 1858 up until 1890. So although it was most enjoyable to sit in my armchair and play detective, all of the above information still left me wondering when my saw was made. I had to find another way of determining the saw's age and just when I was starting to think it would remain a mystery, I came across an article on WKFineTools.com entitled The Nineteenth Century American Back Saw written by Philip W Baker. Although the title refers to American back saws, much of what he has to say equally applies to English back saws. The article presents a study of the shape and features of back saw handles from the 19th century and shows how this information can help narrow down the year of manufacture.
> 
> Consider the following two handles. The one on the right is from my Armitage saw and the one on the left is from another saw in my possession which might make an appearance at the end of this blog series. One thing I can say for certain, is that the handle on the left was made in 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it is time to play spot the difference. Apologies for not having a better camera, you'll just have to take my word for it as far as some of the features I'm going to point out are concerned.
> 
> *The Nibs*
> Both handles have nibs between the base of the Hook and the base of the Top Horn. However, only my Armitage handle has a Bottom Nib. The article states that nibs started appearing at the top and bottom of handles around 1845, but at this time the nibs were rounded over and did not go to a point. Only after 1850, did they start to go to a point. In the photo above, the nib on the left handle goes to a point, but both nibs on my Armitage are of the rounded over variety. So this puts my handle between 1845 and 1850.
> 
> *The Cheeks*
> On earlier saws, the cheeks were larger and covered more of the saw plate. The chamfer at the edge of the cheek was also larger. The cheeks started to become smaller around 1846. As you can see, the cheeks on my Armitage are larger than the handle on the left, indicating the saw is older. Notice too, how the Re-curve Break is more pointed and the shape of the lamb's tongue is more squashed to accommodate the larger cheek size. These features also support the fact that the saw is older.
> 
> *Thickness*
> Older saw handles tended to be thicker than later handles. The Armitage measures in at 19/32" whilst the handle on the left comes in at 17/32", a whole 1/16" thinner.
> 
> When all is said and done, I believe Wiliam Henry Armitage made my saw around 1849-1850, just before he went into partnership with John Pacey. However, I would love to see a saw made by W.H. Armitage & Co at the Vesuvius works between 1876 and 1891 to be sure. Anyone got one? If so, please post a picture and put this sad Englishman out of his misery. 
> 
> I won't be restoring this one for a while yet. When I removed the handle I found that it will need a new saw plate since it is cracked between two of the holes. Although I have the steel, I just don't have the time at the moment unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for looking!


Thanks Dave - I've lingered there many times looking at those handle templates.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *The one that got away...*
> 
> I was going to save this one for later, but on the Saw, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread, Stumpynubs asked if anyone knew anything about W. H. Armitage saws. Well it just so happens that I do and here's what I've managed to find out.
> 
> Some time ago now I acquired a 14" brass-backed backsaw and just by looking at it, I can tell it is the oldest backsaw I own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw plate is very rusty and black. There are a few missing teeth and the handle is loose and ill-fitting. Funny how the seller never mentioned that. This one is definitely going to be a challenge to bring back into service, if indeed the saw plate can be rescued. When it was new it would have been a first class saw, since it is made from London Spring Steel and has a brass back. The trade mark is a weird creature that has a horses head and front legs, but the rear half of the body kind of morphs into a curly tail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the logo more clearly in the drawing below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone knows what 'CAPS ANY.' means, please let me know. The initials W H stand for William Henry Armitage and this is what I have been able to find out about him from various online records. On 4th October 1833 he got married to one Rachel Cookson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The London Gazette dated 24th July 1844 has the following entry:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So prior to 1844 he was in partnership with William Blackford (also a saw maker). The London Gazette dated 2nd February 1849 has this to add:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So between 1844 and 1849 he was in partnership with Alfred Parkinson and Adam Knowles. In 1852, W H Armitage & Co was registered at a house at 41 Netherthorpe Street in Sheffield. The street is still there, but it now has a block of flats and a primary school on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Netherthorpe is a district in Sheffield. The photograph below shows how it looked in the 19th century with row upon row of terraced houses and cobbled streets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was the environment in which this saw was made. The smoke from the furnaces turned all the buildings black. It is said that the tilt hammers could be heard and felt everywhere and the town shock with every blow. The tables in the public houses had bars around the edges to stop the glasses vibrating off onto the floor. The working conditions were atrocious for the working men and women of the day. The 'wet grinders' (the men who ground the saw plates) started work when they were 14 yrs old and by their early 20s, suffered from chronic asthma after breathing in steel and stone dust. Isn't it incredible that even in these conditions, they managed to turn out such high quality products that we now fight over on eBay?
> 
> I found an additional reference to confirm the Netherthorpe address at Backsaws.net who site Whites (a trades directory published in 1852) as their source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the reference below the red line, it has William working out of the Burnt Tree Lane works in 1849 and the house on Netherthorpe Street. Burnt Tree Lane was only a short walk from Netherthorpe Street and just around the corner from a public house called *The Saw Makers' Arms*, which incidentally was later owned by Joshua Ibbotson (brother of Thomas). The following entry shows that in 1852, William went into partnership with John Pacey (also a saw maker) and they worked out of 31 Burnt Tree Lane together under the name of Pacey and Armitage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the following advertisement, you can see the type of products that bore their name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also found this entry on the OldTools Archive which has Pacey and Armitage at Burnt Tree Lane from 1852-1855 and confirms Armitage was working there before that in 1849.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 20th October 1858, the partnership was dissolved and Pacey carried on the business alone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only other references I could find to W. H. Armitage after 1858 were three advertisements.
> 
> The first is dated 1876:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second one (which is the same advert) is dated 1882.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the third is dated 1890.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These advertisements tell us that from 1876 - 1890 W. H. Armitage & Co. were working out of the Vesuvius works on Henry Street in the Portmahon district of Sheffield. Notice that in the last advert, they claim that W.H. Armitage had been established for 50 years prior to 1890, so this tells us that William started in the saw making business in 1840.
> 
> Then I found this entry in the London Gazette dated 8th December 1891, which I think indicates William was getting out of the tool making business:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So where does that leave me in terms of dating my saw. Well at this point in my research all I could say was that it wasn't made between 1840 and January 1849, because W.H. was in various partnerships between those two dates. Also, it wasn't made between 1852 and 1858 when Armitage was in partnership with Pacey, since it doesn't bear the name Pacey and Armitage. However, it could have been made between 1849 and 1852 or any time after 1858 up until 1890. So although it was most enjoyable to sit in my armchair and play detective, all of the above information still left me wondering when my saw was made. I had to find another way of determining the saw's age and just when I was starting to think it would remain a mystery, I came across an article on WKFineTools.com entitled The Nineteenth Century American Back Saw written by Philip W Baker. Although the title refers to American back saws, much of what he has to say equally applies to English back saws. The article presents a study of the shape and features of back saw handles from the 19th century and shows how this information can help narrow down the year of manufacture.
> 
> Consider the following two handles. The one on the right is from my Armitage saw and the one on the left is from another saw in my possession which might make an appearance at the end of this blog series. One thing I can say for certain, is that the handle on the left was made in 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it is time to play spot the difference. Apologies for not having a better camera, you'll just have to take my word for it as far as some of the features I'm going to point out are concerned.
> 
> *The Nibs*
> Both handles have nibs between the base of the Hook and the base of the Top Horn. However, only my Armitage handle has a Bottom Nib. The article states that nibs started appearing at the top and bottom of handles around 1845, but at this time the nibs were rounded over and did not go to a point. Only after 1850, did they start to go to a point. In the photo above, the nib on the left handle goes to a point, but both nibs on my Armitage are of the rounded over variety. So this puts my handle between 1845 and 1850.
> 
> *The Cheeks*
> On earlier saws, the cheeks were larger and covered more of the saw plate. The chamfer at the edge of the cheek was also larger. The cheeks started to become smaller around 1846. As you can see, the cheeks on my Armitage are larger than the handle on the left, indicating the saw is older. Notice too, how the Re-curve Break is more pointed and the shape of the lamb's tongue is more squashed to accommodate the larger cheek size. These features also support the fact that the saw is older.
> 
> *Thickness*
> Older saw handles tended to be thicker than later handles. The Armitage measures in at 19/32" whilst the handle on the left comes in at 17/32", a whole 1/16" thinner.
> 
> When all is said and done, I believe Wiliam Henry Armitage made my saw around 1849-1850, just before he went into partnership with John Pacey. However, I would love to see a saw made by W.H. Armitage & Co at the Vesuvius works between 1876 and 1891 to be sure. Anyone got one? If so, please post a picture and put this sad Englishman out of his misery. 
> 
> I won't be restoring this one for a while yet. When I removed the handle I found that it will need a new saw plate since it is cracked between two of the holes. Although I have the steel, I just don't have the time at the moment unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for looking!


Interesting as always Andy.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Brit said:


> *The one that got away...*
> 
> I was going to save this one for later, but on the Saw, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread, Stumpynubs asked if anyone knew anything about W. H. Armitage saws. Well it just so happens that I do and here's what I've managed to find out.
> 
> Some time ago now I acquired a 14" brass-backed backsaw and just by looking at it, I can tell it is the oldest backsaw I own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw plate is very rusty and black. There are a few missing teeth and the handle is loose and ill-fitting. Funny how the seller never mentioned that. This one is definitely going to be a challenge to bring back into service, if indeed the saw plate can be rescued. When it was new it would have been a first class saw, since it is made from London Spring Steel and has a brass back. The trade mark is a weird creature that has a horses head and front legs, but the rear half of the body kind of morphs into a curly tail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the logo more clearly in the drawing below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone knows what 'CAPS ANY.' means, please let me know. The initials W H stand for William Henry Armitage and this is what I have been able to find out about him from various online records. On 4th October 1833 he got married to one Rachel Cookson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The London Gazette dated 24th July 1844 has the following entry:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So prior to 1844 he was in partnership with William Blackford (also a saw maker). The London Gazette dated 2nd February 1849 has this to add:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So between 1844 and 1849 he was in partnership with Alfred Parkinson and Adam Knowles. In 1852, W H Armitage & Co was registered at a house at 41 Netherthorpe Street in Sheffield. The street is still there, but it now has a block of flats and a primary school on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Netherthorpe is a district in Sheffield. The photograph below shows how it looked in the 19th century with row upon row of terraced houses and cobbled streets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was the environment in which this saw was made. The smoke from the furnaces turned all the buildings black. It is said that the tilt hammers could be heard and felt everywhere and the town shock with every blow. The tables in the public houses had bars around the edges to stop the glasses vibrating off onto the floor. The working conditions were atrocious for the working men and women of the day. The 'wet grinders' (the men who ground the saw plates) started work when they were 14 yrs old and by their early 20s, suffered from chronic asthma after breathing in steel and stone dust. Isn't it incredible that even in these conditions, they managed to turn out such high quality products that we now fight over on eBay?
> 
> I found an additional reference to confirm the Netherthorpe address at Backsaws.net who site Whites (a trades directory published in 1852) as their source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the reference below the red line, it has William working out of the Burnt Tree Lane works in 1849 and the house on Netherthorpe Street. Burnt Tree Lane was only a short walk from Netherthorpe Street and just around the corner from a public house called *The Saw Makers' Arms*, which incidentally was later owned by Joshua Ibbotson (brother of Thomas). The following entry shows that in 1852, William went into partnership with John Pacey (also a saw maker) and they worked out of 31 Burnt Tree Lane together under the name of Pacey and Armitage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the following advertisement, you can see the type of products that bore their name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also found this entry on the OldTools Archive which has Pacey and Armitage at Burnt Tree Lane from 1852-1855 and confirms Armitage was working there before that in 1849.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 20th October 1858, the partnership was dissolved and Pacey carried on the business alone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only other references I could find to W. H. Armitage after 1858 were three advertisements.
> 
> The first is dated 1876:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second one (which is the same advert) is dated 1882.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the third is dated 1890.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These advertisements tell us that from 1876 - 1890 W. H. Armitage & Co. were working out of the Vesuvius works on Henry Street in the Portmahon district of Sheffield. Notice that in the last advert, they claim that W.H. Armitage had been established for 50 years prior to 1890, so this tells us that William started in the saw making business in 1840.
> 
> Then I found this entry in the London Gazette dated 8th December 1891, which I think indicates William was getting out of the tool making business:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So where does that leave me in terms of dating my saw. Well at this point in my research all I could say was that it wasn't made between 1840 and January 1849, because W.H. was in various partnerships between those two dates. Also, it wasn't made between 1852 and 1858 when Armitage was in partnership with Pacey, since it doesn't bear the name Pacey and Armitage. However, it could have been made between 1849 and 1852 or any time after 1858 up until 1890. So although it was most enjoyable to sit in my armchair and play detective, all of the above information still left me wondering when my saw was made. I had to find another way of determining the saw's age and just when I was starting to think it would remain a mystery, I came across an article on WKFineTools.com entitled The Nineteenth Century American Back Saw written by Philip W Baker. Although the title refers to American back saws, much of what he has to say equally applies to English back saws. The article presents a study of the shape and features of back saw handles from the 19th century and shows how this information can help narrow down the year of manufacture.
> 
> Consider the following two handles. The one on the right is from my Armitage saw and the one on the left is from another saw in my possession which might make an appearance at the end of this blog series. One thing I can say for certain, is that the handle on the left was made in 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it is time to play spot the difference. Apologies for not having a better camera, you'll just have to take my word for it as far as some of the features I'm going to point out are concerned.
> 
> *The Nibs*
> Both handles have nibs between the base of the Hook and the base of the Top Horn. However, only my Armitage handle has a Bottom Nib. The article states that nibs started appearing at the top and bottom of handles around 1845, but at this time the nibs were rounded over and did not go to a point. Only after 1850, did they start to go to a point. In the photo above, the nib on the left handle goes to a point, but both nibs on my Armitage are of the rounded over variety. So this puts my handle between 1845 and 1850.
> 
> *The Cheeks*
> On earlier saws, the cheeks were larger and covered more of the saw plate. The chamfer at the edge of the cheek was also larger. The cheeks started to become smaller around 1846. As you can see, the cheeks on my Armitage are larger than the handle on the left, indicating the saw is older. Notice too, how the Re-curve Break is more pointed and the shape of the lamb's tongue is more squashed to accommodate the larger cheek size. These features also support the fact that the saw is older.
> 
> *Thickness*
> Older saw handles tended to be thicker than later handles. The Armitage measures in at 19/32" whilst the handle on the left comes in at 17/32", a whole 1/16" thinner.
> 
> When all is said and done, I believe Wiliam Henry Armitage made my saw around 1849-1850, just before he went into partnership with John Pacey. However, I would love to see a saw made by W.H. Armitage & Co at the Vesuvius works between 1876 and 1891 to be sure. Anyone got one? If so, please post a picture and put this sad Englishman out of his misery. 
> 
> I won't be restoring this one for a while yet. When I removed the handle I found that it will need a new saw plate since it is cracked between two of the holes. Although I have the steel, I just don't have the time at the moment unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for looking!


I think the Caps Any simply means that it's quality is above the rest, so it's on top and what goes on top? a cap, ergo it "Caps Any" other saw made.

Always love reading your detective work Andy.


----------



## StumpyNubs

Brit said:


> *The one that got away...*
> 
> I was going to save this one for later, but on the Saw, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread, Stumpynubs asked if anyone knew anything about W. H. Armitage saws. Well it just so happens that I do and here's what I've managed to find out.
> 
> Some time ago now I acquired a 14" brass-backed backsaw and just by looking at it, I can tell it is the oldest backsaw I own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw plate is very rusty and black. There are a few missing teeth and the handle is loose and ill-fitting. Funny how the seller never mentioned that. This one is definitely going to be a challenge to bring back into service, if indeed the saw plate can be rescued. When it was new it would have been a first class saw, since it is made from London Spring Steel and has a brass back. The trade mark is a weird creature that has a horses head and front legs, but the rear half of the body kind of morphs into a curly tail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the logo more clearly in the drawing below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone knows what 'CAPS ANY.' means, please let me know. The initials W H stand for William Henry Armitage and this is what I have been able to find out about him from various online records. On 4th October 1833 he got married to one Rachel Cookson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The London Gazette dated 24th July 1844 has the following entry:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So prior to 1844 he was in partnership with William Blackford (also a saw maker). The London Gazette dated 2nd February 1849 has this to add:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So between 1844 and 1849 he was in partnership with Alfred Parkinson and Adam Knowles. In 1852, W H Armitage & Co was registered at a house at 41 Netherthorpe Street in Sheffield. The street is still there, but it now has a block of flats and a primary school on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Netherthorpe is a district in Sheffield. The photograph below shows how it looked in the 19th century with row upon row of terraced houses and cobbled streets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was the environment in which this saw was made. The smoke from the furnaces turned all the buildings black. It is said that the tilt hammers could be heard and felt everywhere and the town shock with every blow. The tables in the public houses had bars around the edges to stop the glasses vibrating off onto the floor. The working conditions were atrocious for the working men and women of the day. The 'wet grinders' (the men who ground the saw plates) started work when they were 14 yrs old and by their early 20s, suffered from chronic asthma after breathing in steel and stone dust. Isn't it incredible that even in these conditions, they managed to turn out such high quality products that we now fight over on eBay?
> 
> I found an additional reference to confirm the Netherthorpe address at Backsaws.net who site Whites (a trades directory published in 1852) as their source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the reference below the red line, it has William working out of the Burnt Tree Lane works in 1849 and the house on Netherthorpe Street. Burnt Tree Lane was only a short walk from Netherthorpe Street and just around the corner from a public house called *The Saw Makers' Arms*, which incidentally was later owned by Joshua Ibbotson (brother of Thomas). The following entry shows that in 1852, William went into partnership with John Pacey (also a saw maker) and they worked out of 31 Burnt Tree Lane together under the name of Pacey and Armitage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the following advertisement, you can see the type of products that bore their name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also found this entry on the OldTools Archive which has Pacey and Armitage at Burnt Tree Lane from 1852-1855 and confirms Armitage was working there before that in 1849.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 20th October 1858, the partnership was dissolved and Pacey carried on the business alone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only other references I could find to W. H. Armitage after 1858 were three advertisements.
> 
> The first is dated 1876:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second one (which is the same advert) is dated 1882.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the third is dated 1890.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These advertisements tell us that from 1876 - 1890 W. H. Armitage & Co. were working out of the Vesuvius works on Henry Street in the Portmahon district of Sheffield. Notice that in the last advert, they claim that W.H. Armitage had been established for 50 years prior to 1890, so this tells us that William started in the saw making business in 1840.
> 
> Then I found this entry in the London Gazette dated 8th December 1891, which I think indicates William was getting out of the tool making business:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So where does that leave me in terms of dating my saw. Well at this point in my research all I could say was that it wasn't made between 1840 and January 1849, because W.H. was in various partnerships between those two dates. Also, it wasn't made between 1852 and 1858 when Armitage was in partnership with Pacey, since it doesn't bear the name Pacey and Armitage. However, it could have been made between 1849 and 1852 or any time after 1858 up until 1890. So although it was most enjoyable to sit in my armchair and play detective, all of the above information still left me wondering when my saw was made. I had to find another way of determining the saw's age and just when I was starting to think it would remain a mystery, I came across an article on WKFineTools.com entitled The Nineteenth Century American Back Saw written by Philip W Baker. Although the title refers to American back saws, much of what he has to say equally applies to English back saws. The article presents a study of the shape and features of back saw handles from the 19th century and shows how this information can help narrow down the year of manufacture.
> 
> Consider the following two handles. The one on the right is from my Armitage saw and the one on the left is from another saw in my possession which might make an appearance at the end of this blog series. One thing I can say for certain, is that the handle on the left was made in 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it is time to play spot the difference. Apologies for not having a better camera, you'll just have to take my word for it as far as some of the features I'm going to point out are concerned.
> 
> *The Nibs*
> Both handles have nibs between the base of the Hook and the base of the Top Horn. However, only my Armitage handle has a Bottom Nib. The article states that nibs started appearing at the top and bottom of handles around 1845, but at this time the nibs were rounded over and did not go to a point. Only after 1850, did they start to go to a point. In the photo above, the nib on the left handle goes to a point, but both nibs on my Armitage are of the rounded over variety. So this puts my handle between 1845 and 1850.
> 
> *The Cheeks*
> On earlier saws, the cheeks were larger and covered more of the saw plate. The chamfer at the edge of the cheek was also larger. The cheeks started to become smaller around 1846. As you can see, the cheeks on my Armitage are larger than the handle on the left, indicating the saw is older. Notice too, how the Re-curve Break is more pointed and the shape of the lamb's tongue is more squashed to accommodate the larger cheek size. These features also support the fact that the saw is older.
> 
> *Thickness*
> Older saw handles tended to be thicker than later handles. The Armitage measures in at 19/32" whilst the handle on the left comes in at 17/32", a whole 1/16" thinner.
> 
> When all is said and done, I believe Wiliam Henry Armitage made my saw around 1849-1850, just before he went into partnership with John Pacey. However, I would love to see a saw made by W.H. Armitage & Co at the Vesuvius works between 1876 and 1891 to be sure. Anyone got one? If so, please post a picture and put this sad Englishman out of his misery. 
> 
> I won't be restoring this one for a while yet. When I removed the handle I found that it will need a new saw plate since it is cracked between two of the holes. Although I have the steel, I just don't have the time at the moment unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for looking!


I suppose you could be right. The reason I thought it implied a partnership was the "& Co" rather than just being "Co". Normally the "&" would mean it is Armitage AND those with him. But that is a modern American understanding, which may not have been the case in 19th century England! You may also be right about London. I always assumed the city name under the manufacturer signified the place of business, but that may not be the case. I wonder, though, why Armitage, living in the high quality tool steel center of the world, would purchase steel elsewhere for his saws? This is very interesting. I hope you keep digging!


----------



## jjw5858

Brit said:


> *The one that got away...*
> 
> I was going to save this one for later, but on the Saw, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread, Stumpynubs asked if anyone knew anything about W. H. Armitage saws. Well it just so happens that I do and here's what I've managed to find out.
> 
> Some time ago now I acquired a 14" brass-backed backsaw and just by looking at it, I can tell it is the oldest backsaw I own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw plate is very rusty and black. There are a few missing teeth and the handle is loose and ill-fitting. Funny how the seller never mentioned that. This one is definitely going to be a challenge to bring back into service, if indeed the saw plate can be rescued. When it was new it would have been a first class saw, since it is made from London Spring Steel and has a brass back. The trade mark is a weird creature that has a horses head and front legs, but the rear half of the body kind of morphs into a curly tail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the logo more clearly in the drawing below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone knows what 'CAPS ANY.' means, please let me know. The initials W H stand for William Henry Armitage and this is what I have been able to find out about him from various online records. On 4th October 1833 he got married to one Rachel Cookson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The London Gazette dated 24th July 1844 has the following entry:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So prior to 1844 he was in partnership with William Blackford (also a saw maker). The London Gazette dated 2nd February 1849 has this to add:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So between 1844 and 1849 he was in partnership with Alfred Parkinson and Adam Knowles. In 1852, W H Armitage & Co was registered at a house at 41 Netherthorpe Street in Sheffield. The street is still there, but it now has a block of flats and a primary school on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Netherthorpe is a district in Sheffield. The photograph below shows how it looked in the 19th century with row upon row of terraced houses and cobbled streets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was the environment in which this saw was made. The smoke from the furnaces turned all the buildings black. It is said that the tilt hammers could be heard and felt everywhere and the town shock with every blow. The tables in the public houses had bars around the edges to stop the glasses vibrating off onto the floor. The working conditions were atrocious for the working men and women of the day. The 'wet grinders' (the men who ground the saw plates) started work when they were 14 yrs old and by their early 20s, suffered from chronic asthma after breathing in steel and stone dust. Isn't it incredible that even in these conditions, they managed to turn out such high quality products that we now fight over on eBay?
> 
> I found an additional reference to confirm the Netherthorpe address at Backsaws.net who site Whites (a trades directory published in 1852) as their source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the reference below the red line, it has William working out of the Burnt Tree Lane works in 1849 and the house on Netherthorpe Street. Burnt Tree Lane was only a short walk from Netherthorpe Street and just around the corner from a public house called *The Saw Makers' Arms*, which incidentally was later owned by Joshua Ibbotson (brother of Thomas). The following entry shows that in 1852, William went into partnership with John Pacey (also a saw maker) and they worked out of 31 Burnt Tree Lane together under the name of Pacey and Armitage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the following advertisement, you can see the type of products that bore their name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also found this entry on the OldTools Archive which has Pacey and Armitage at Burnt Tree Lane from 1852-1855 and confirms Armitage was working there before that in 1849.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 20th October 1858, the partnership was dissolved and Pacey carried on the business alone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only other references I could find to W. H. Armitage after 1858 were three advertisements.
> 
> The first is dated 1876:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second one (which is the same advert) is dated 1882.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the third is dated 1890.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These advertisements tell us that from 1876 - 1890 W. H. Armitage & Co. were working out of the Vesuvius works on Henry Street in the Portmahon district of Sheffield. Notice that in the last advert, they claim that W.H. Armitage had been established for 50 years prior to 1890, so this tells us that William started in the saw making business in 1840.
> 
> Then I found this entry in the London Gazette dated 8th December 1891, which I think indicates William was getting out of the tool making business:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So where does that leave me in terms of dating my saw. Well at this point in my research all I could say was that it wasn't made between 1840 and January 1849, because W.H. was in various partnerships between those two dates. Also, it wasn't made between 1852 and 1858 when Armitage was in partnership with Pacey, since it doesn't bear the name Pacey and Armitage. However, it could have been made between 1849 and 1852 or any time after 1858 up until 1890. So although it was most enjoyable to sit in my armchair and play detective, all of the above information still left me wondering when my saw was made. I had to find another way of determining the saw's age and just when I was starting to think it would remain a mystery, I came across an article on WKFineTools.com entitled The Nineteenth Century American Back Saw written by Philip W Baker. Although the title refers to American back saws, much of what he has to say equally applies to English back saws. The article presents a study of the shape and features of back saw handles from the 19th century and shows how this information can help narrow down the year of manufacture.
> 
> Consider the following two handles. The one on the right is from my Armitage saw and the one on the left is from another saw in my possession which might make an appearance at the end of this blog series. One thing I can say for certain, is that the handle on the left was made in 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it is time to play spot the difference. Apologies for not having a better camera, you'll just have to take my word for it as far as some of the features I'm going to point out are concerned.
> 
> *The Nibs*
> Both handles have nibs between the base of the Hook and the base of the Top Horn. However, only my Armitage handle has a Bottom Nib. The article states that nibs started appearing at the top and bottom of handles around 1845, but at this time the nibs were rounded over and did not go to a point. Only after 1850, did they start to go to a point. In the photo above, the nib on the left handle goes to a point, but both nibs on my Armitage are of the rounded over variety. So this puts my handle between 1845 and 1850.
> 
> *The Cheeks*
> On earlier saws, the cheeks were larger and covered more of the saw plate. The chamfer at the edge of the cheek was also larger. The cheeks started to become smaller around 1846. As you can see, the cheeks on my Armitage are larger than the handle on the left, indicating the saw is older. Notice too, how the Re-curve Break is more pointed and the shape of the lamb's tongue is more squashed to accommodate the larger cheek size. These features also support the fact that the saw is older.
> 
> *Thickness*
> Older saw handles tended to be thicker than later handles. The Armitage measures in at 19/32" whilst the handle on the left comes in at 17/32", a whole 1/16" thinner.
> 
> When all is said and done, I believe Wiliam Henry Armitage made my saw around 1849-1850, just before he went into partnership with John Pacey. However, I would love to see a saw made by W.H. Armitage & Co at the Vesuvius works between 1876 and 1891 to be sure. Anyone got one? If so, please post a picture and put this sad Englishman out of his misery. 
> 
> I won't be restoring this one for a while yet. When I removed the handle I found that it will need a new saw plate since it is cracked between two of the holes. Although I have the steel, I just don't have the time at the moment unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for looking!


Great blog Andy, always a terrific education on saws.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *The one that got away...*
> 
> I was going to save this one for later, but on the Saw, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread, Stumpynubs asked if anyone knew anything about W. H. Armitage saws. Well it just so happens that I do and here's what I've managed to find out.
> 
> Some time ago now I acquired a 14" brass-backed backsaw and just by looking at it, I can tell it is the oldest backsaw I own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw plate is very rusty and black. There are a few missing teeth and the handle is loose and ill-fitting. Funny how the seller never mentioned that. This one is definitely going to be a challenge to bring back into service, if indeed the saw plate can be rescued. When it was new it would have been a first class saw, since it is made from London Spring Steel and has a brass back. The trade mark is a weird creature that has a horses head and front legs, but the rear half of the body kind of morphs into a curly tail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the logo more clearly in the drawing below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone knows what 'CAPS ANY.' means, please let me know. The initials W H stand for William Henry Armitage and this is what I have been able to find out about him from various online records. On 4th October 1833 he got married to one Rachel Cookson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The London Gazette dated 24th July 1844 has the following entry:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So prior to 1844 he was in partnership with William Blackford (also a saw maker). The London Gazette dated 2nd February 1849 has this to add:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So between 1844 and 1849 he was in partnership with Alfred Parkinson and Adam Knowles. In 1852, W H Armitage & Co was registered at a house at 41 Netherthorpe Street in Sheffield. The street is still there, but it now has a block of flats and a primary school on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Netherthorpe is a district in Sheffield. The photograph below shows how it looked in the 19th century with row upon row of terraced houses and cobbled streets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was the environment in which this saw was made. The smoke from the furnaces turned all the buildings black. It is said that the tilt hammers could be heard and felt everywhere and the town shock with every blow. The tables in the public houses had bars around the edges to stop the glasses vibrating off onto the floor. The working conditions were atrocious for the working men and women of the day. The 'wet grinders' (the men who ground the saw plates) started work when they were 14 yrs old and by their early 20s, suffered from chronic asthma after breathing in steel and stone dust. Isn't it incredible that even in these conditions, they managed to turn out such high quality products that we now fight over on eBay?
> 
> I found an additional reference to confirm the Netherthorpe address at Backsaws.net who site Whites (a trades directory published in 1852) as their source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the reference below the red line, it has William working out of the Burnt Tree Lane works in 1849 and the house on Netherthorpe Street. Burnt Tree Lane was only a short walk from Netherthorpe Street and just around the corner from a public house called *The Saw Makers' Arms*, which incidentally was later owned by Joshua Ibbotson (brother of Thomas). The following entry shows that in 1852, William went into partnership with John Pacey (also a saw maker) and they worked out of 31 Burnt Tree Lane together under the name of Pacey and Armitage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the following advertisement, you can see the type of products that bore their name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also found this entry on the OldTools Archive which has Pacey and Armitage at Burnt Tree Lane from 1852-1855 and confirms Armitage was working there before that in 1849.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 20th October 1858, the partnership was dissolved and Pacey carried on the business alone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only other references I could find to W. H. Armitage after 1858 were three advertisements.
> 
> The first is dated 1876:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second one (which is the same advert) is dated 1882.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the third is dated 1890.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These advertisements tell us that from 1876 - 1890 W. H. Armitage & Co. were working out of the Vesuvius works on Henry Street in the Portmahon district of Sheffield. Notice that in the last advert, they claim that W.H. Armitage had been established for 50 years prior to 1890, so this tells us that William started in the saw making business in 1840.
> 
> Then I found this entry in the London Gazette dated 8th December 1891, which I think indicates William was getting out of the tool making business:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So where does that leave me in terms of dating my saw. Well at this point in my research all I could say was that it wasn't made between 1840 and January 1849, because W.H. was in various partnerships between those two dates. Also, it wasn't made between 1852 and 1858 when Armitage was in partnership with Pacey, since it doesn't bear the name Pacey and Armitage. However, it could have been made between 1849 and 1852 or any time after 1858 up until 1890. So although it was most enjoyable to sit in my armchair and play detective, all of the above information still left me wondering when my saw was made. I had to find another way of determining the saw's age and just when I was starting to think it would remain a mystery, I came across an article on WKFineTools.com entitled The Nineteenth Century American Back Saw written by Philip W Baker. Although the title refers to American back saws, much of what he has to say equally applies to English back saws. The article presents a study of the shape and features of back saw handles from the 19th century and shows how this information can help narrow down the year of manufacture.
> 
> Consider the following two handles. The one on the right is from my Armitage saw and the one on the left is from another saw in my possession which might make an appearance at the end of this blog series. One thing I can say for certain, is that the handle on the left was made in 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it is time to play spot the difference. Apologies for not having a better camera, you'll just have to take my word for it as far as some of the features I'm going to point out are concerned.
> 
> *The Nibs*
> Both handles have nibs between the base of the Hook and the base of the Top Horn. However, only my Armitage handle has a Bottom Nib. The article states that nibs started appearing at the top and bottom of handles around 1845, but at this time the nibs were rounded over and did not go to a point. Only after 1850, did they start to go to a point. In the photo above, the nib on the left handle goes to a point, but both nibs on my Armitage are of the rounded over variety. So this puts my handle between 1845 and 1850.
> 
> *The Cheeks*
> On earlier saws, the cheeks were larger and covered more of the saw plate. The chamfer at the edge of the cheek was also larger. The cheeks started to become smaller around 1846. As you can see, the cheeks on my Armitage are larger than the handle on the left, indicating the saw is older. Notice too, how the Re-curve Break is more pointed and the shape of the lamb's tongue is more squashed to accommodate the larger cheek size. These features also support the fact that the saw is older.
> 
> *Thickness*
> Older saw handles tended to be thicker than later handles. The Armitage measures in at 19/32" whilst the handle on the left comes in at 17/32", a whole 1/16" thinner.
> 
> When all is said and done, I believe Wiliam Henry Armitage made my saw around 1849-1850, just before he went into partnership with John Pacey. However, I would love to see a saw made by W.H. Armitage & Co at the Vesuvius works between 1876 and 1891 to be sure. Anyone got one? If so, please post a picture and put this sad Englishman out of his misery. 
> 
> I won't be restoring this one for a while yet. When I removed the handle I found that it will need a new saw plate since it is cracked between two of the holes. Although I have the steel, I just don't have the time at the moment unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for looking!


Great work Andy, looks like you were knee deep in micro fich.

I'm with OJM, I think "Caps Any" means Tops Any or something l like that.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Brit said:


> *The one that got away...*
> 
> I was going to save this one for later, but on the Saw, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread, Stumpynubs asked if anyone knew anything about W. H. Armitage saws. Well it just so happens that I do and here's what I've managed to find out.
> 
> Some time ago now I acquired a 14" brass-backed backsaw and just by looking at it, I can tell it is the oldest backsaw I own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw plate is very rusty and black. There are a few missing teeth and the handle is loose and ill-fitting. Funny how the seller never mentioned that. This one is definitely going to be a challenge to bring back into service, if indeed the saw plate can be rescued. When it was new it would have been a first class saw, since it is made from London Spring Steel and has a brass back. The trade mark is a weird creature that has a horses head and front legs, but the rear half of the body kind of morphs into a curly tail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the logo more clearly in the drawing below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone knows what 'CAPS ANY.' means, please let me know. The initials W H stand for William Henry Armitage and this is what I have been able to find out about him from various online records. On 4th October 1833 he got married to one Rachel Cookson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The London Gazette dated 24th July 1844 has the following entry:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So prior to 1844 he was in partnership with William Blackford (also a saw maker). The London Gazette dated 2nd February 1849 has this to add:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So between 1844 and 1849 he was in partnership with Alfred Parkinson and Adam Knowles. In 1852, W H Armitage & Co was registered at a house at 41 Netherthorpe Street in Sheffield. The street is still there, but it now has a block of flats and a primary school on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Netherthorpe is a district in Sheffield. The photograph below shows how it looked in the 19th century with row upon row of terraced houses and cobbled streets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was the environment in which this saw was made. The smoke from the furnaces turned all the buildings black. It is said that the tilt hammers could be heard and felt everywhere and the town shock with every blow. The tables in the public houses had bars around the edges to stop the glasses vibrating off onto the floor. The working conditions were atrocious for the working men and women of the day. The 'wet grinders' (the men who ground the saw plates) started work when they were 14 yrs old and by their early 20s, suffered from chronic asthma after breathing in steel and stone dust. Isn't it incredible that even in these conditions, they managed to turn out such high quality products that we now fight over on eBay?
> 
> I found an additional reference to confirm the Netherthorpe address at Backsaws.net who site Whites (a trades directory published in 1852) as their source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the reference below the red line, it has William working out of the Burnt Tree Lane works in 1849 and the house on Netherthorpe Street. Burnt Tree Lane was only a short walk from Netherthorpe Street and just around the corner from a public house called *The Saw Makers' Arms*, which incidentally was later owned by Joshua Ibbotson (brother of Thomas). The following entry shows that in 1852, William went into partnership with John Pacey (also a saw maker) and they worked out of 31 Burnt Tree Lane together under the name of Pacey and Armitage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the following advertisement, you can see the type of products that bore their name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also found this entry on the OldTools Archive which has Pacey and Armitage at Burnt Tree Lane from 1852-1855 and confirms Armitage was working there before that in 1849.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 20th October 1858, the partnership was dissolved and Pacey carried on the business alone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only other references I could find to W. H. Armitage after 1858 were three advertisements.
> 
> The first is dated 1876:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second one (which is the same advert) is dated 1882.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the third is dated 1890.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These advertisements tell us that from 1876 - 1890 W. H. Armitage & Co. were working out of the Vesuvius works on Henry Street in the Portmahon district of Sheffield. Notice that in the last advert, they claim that W.H. Armitage had been established for 50 years prior to 1890, so this tells us that William started in the saw making business in 1840.
> 
> Then I found this entry in the London Gazette dated 8th December 1891, which I think indicates William was getting out of the tool making business:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So where does that leave me in terms of dating my saw. Well at this point in my research all I could say was that it wasn't made between 1840 and January 1849, because W.H. was in various partnerships between those two dates. Also, it wasn't made between 1852 and 1858 when Armitage was in partnership with Pacey, since it doesn't bear the name Pacey and Armitage. However, it could have been made between 1849 and 1852 or any time after 1858 up until 1890. So although it was most enjoyable to sit in my armchair and play detective, all of the above information still left me wondering when my saw was made. I had to find another way of determining the saw's age and just when I was starting to think it would remain a mystery, I came across an article on WKFineTools.com entitled The Nineteenth Century American Back Saw written by Philip W Baker. Although the title refers to American back saws, much of what he has to say equally applies to English back saws. The article presents a study of the shape and features of back saw handles from the 19th century and shows how this information can help narrow down the year of manufacture.
> 
> Consider the following two handles. The one on the right is from my Armitage saw and the one on the left is from another saw in my possession which might make an appearance at the end of this blog series. One thing I can say for certain, is that the handle on the left was made in 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it is time to play spot the difference. Apologies for not having a better camera, you'll just have to take my word for it as far as some of the features I'm going to point out are concerned.
> 
> *The Nibs*
> Both handles have nibs between the base of the Hook and the base of the Top Horn. However, only my Armitage handle has a Bottom Nib. The article states that nibs started appearing at the top and bottom of handles around 1845, but at this time the nibs were rounded over and did not go to a point. Only after 1850, did they start to go to a point. In the photo above, the nib on the left handle goes to a point, but both nibs on my Armitage are of the rounded over variety. So this puts my handle between 1845 and 1850.
> 
> *The Cheeks*
> On earlier saws, the cheeks were larger and covered more of the saw plate. The chamfer at the edge of the cheek was also larger. The cheeks started to become smaller around 1846. As you can see, the cheeks on my Armitage are larger than the handle on the left, indicating the saw is older. Notice too, how the Re-curve Break is more pointed and the shape of the lamb's tongue is more squashed to accommodate the larger cheek size. These features also support the fact that the saw is older.
> 
> *Thickness*
> Older saw handles tended to be thicker than later handles. The Armitage measures in at 19/32" whilst the handle on the left comes in at 17/32", a whole 1/16" thinner.
> 
> When all is said and done, I believe Wiliam Henry Armitage made my saw around 1849-1850, just before he went into partnership with John Pacey. However, I would love to see a saw made by W.H. Armitage & Co at the Vesuvius works between 1876 and 1891 to be sure. Anyone got one? If so, please post a picture and put this sad Englishman out of his misery. 
> 
> I won't be restoring this one for a while yet. When I removed the handle I found that it will need a new saw plate since it is cracked between two of the holes. Although I have the steel, I just don't have the time at the moment unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for looking!


You are amazing Andy. Thank you for taking the time to share the wealth of information that you pull from the depths. Spectacular read as always.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *The one that got away...*
> 
> I was going to save this one for later, but on the Saw, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread, Stumpynubs asked if anyone knew anything about W. H. Armitage saws. Well it just so happens that I do and here's what I've managed to find out.
> 
> Some time ago now I acquired a 14" brass-backed backsaw and just by looking at it, I can tell it is the oldest backsaw I own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This saw plate is very rusty and black. There are a few missing teeth and the handle is loose and ill-fitting. Funny how the seller never mentioned that. This one is definitely going to be a challenge to bring back into service, if indeed the saw plate can be rescued. When it was new it would have been a first class saw, since it is made from London Spring Steel and has a brass back. The trade mark is a weird creature that has a horses head and front legs, but the rear half of the body kind of morphs into a curly tail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the logo more clearly in the drawing below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone knows what 'CAPS ANY.' means, please let me know. The initials W H stand for William Henry Armitage and this is what I have been able to find out about him from various online records. On 4th October 1833 he got married to one Rachel Cookson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The London Gazette dated 24th July 1844 has the following entry:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So prior to 1844 he was in partnership with William Blackford (also a saw maker). The London Gazette dated 2nd February 1849 has this to add:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So between 1844 and 1849 he was in partnership with Alfred Parkinson and Adam Knowles. In 1852, W H Armitage & Co was registered at a house at 41 Netherthorpe Street in Sheffield. The street is still there, but it now has a block of flats and a primary school on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Netherthorpe is a district in Sheffield. The photograph below shows how it looked in the 19th century with row upon row of terraced houses and cobbled streets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was the environment in which this saw was made. The smoke from the furnaces turned all the buildings black. It is said that the tilt hammers could be heard and felt everywhere and the town shock with every blow. The tables in the public houses had bars around the edges to stop the glasses vibrating off onto the floor. The working conditions were atrocious for the working men and women of the day. The 'wet grinders' (the men who ground the saw plates) started work when they were 14 yrs old and by their early 20s, suffered from chronic asthma after breathing in steel and stone dust. Isn't it incredible that even in these conditions, they managed to turn out such high quality products that we now fight over on eBay?
> 
> I found an additional reference to confirm the Netherthorpe address at Backsaws.net who site Whites (a trades directory published in 1852) as their source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the reference below the red line, it has William working out of the Burnt Tree Lane works in 1849 and the house on Netherthorpe Street. Burnt Tree Lane was only a short walk from Netherthorpe Street and just around the corner from a public house called *The Saw Makers' Arms*, which incidentally was later owned by Joshua Ibbotson (brother of Thomas). The following entry shows that in 1852, William went into partnership with John Pacey (also a saw maker) and they worked out of 31 Burnt Tree Lane together under the name of Pacey and Armitage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the following advertisement, you can see the type of products that bore their name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also found this entry on the OldTools Archive which has Pacey and Armitage at Burnt Tree Lane from 1852-1855 and confirms Armitage was working there before that in 1849.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 20th October 1858, the partnership was dissolved and Pacey carried on the business alone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only other references I could find to W. H. Armitage after 1858 were three advertisements.
> 
> The first is dated 1876:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second one (which is the same advert) is dated 1882.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the third is dated 1890.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These advertisements tell us that from 1876 - 1890 W. H. Armitage & Co. were working out of the Vesuvius works on Henry Street in the Portmahon district of Sheffield. Notice that in the last advert, they claim that W.H. Armitage had been established for 50 years prior to 1890, so this tells us that William started in the saw making business in 1840.
> 
> Then I found this entry in the London Gazette dated 8th December 1891, which I think indicates William was getting out of the tool making business:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So where does that leave me in terms of dating my saw. Well at this point in my research all I could say was that it wasn't made between 1840 and January 1849, because W.H. was in various partnerships between those two dates. Also, it wasn't made between 1852 and 1858 when Armitage was in partnership with Pacey, since it doesn't bear the name Pacey and Armitage. However, it could have been made between 1849 and 1852 or any time after 1858 up until 1890. So although it was most enjoyable to sit in my armchair and play detective, all of the above information still left me wondering when my saw was made. I had to find another way of determining the saw's age and just when I was starting to think it would remain a mystery, I came across an article on WKFineTools.com entitled The Nineteenth Century American Back Saw written by Philip W Baker. Although the title refers to American back saws, much of what he has to say equally applies to English back saws. The article presents a study of the shape and features of back saw handles from the 19th century and shows how this information can help narrow down the year of manufacture.
> 
> Consider the following two handles. The one on the right is from my Armitage saw and the one on the left is from another saw in my possession which might make an appearance at the end of this blog series. One thing I can say for certain, is that the handle on the left was made in 1887.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now it is time to play spot the difference. Apologies for not having a better camera, you'll just have to take my word for it as far as some of the features I'm going to point out are concerned.
> 
> *The Nibs*
> Both handles have nibs between the base of the Hook and the base of the Top Horn. However, only my Armitage handle has a Bottom Nib. The article states that nibs started appearing at the top and bottom of handles around 1845, but at this time the nibs were rounded over and did not go to a point. Only after 1850, did they start to go to a point. In the photo above, the nib on the left handle goes to a point, but both nibs on my Armitage are of the rounded over variety. So this puts my handle between 1845 and 1850.
> 
> *The Cheeks*
> On earlier saws, the cheeks were larger and covered more of the saw plate. The chamfer at the edge of the cheek was also larger. The cheeks started to become smaller around 1846. As you can see, the cheeks on my Armitage are larger than the handle on the left, indicating the saw is older. Notice too, how the Re-curve Break is more pointed and the shape of the lamb's tongue is more squashed to accommodate the larger cheek size. These features also support the fact that the saw is older.
> 
> *Thickness*
> Older saw handles tended to be thicker than later handles. The Armitage measures in at 19/32" whilst the handle on the left comes in at 17/32", a whole 1/16" thinner.
> 
> When all is said and done, I believe Wiliam Henry Armitage made my saw around 1849-1850, just before he went into partnership with John Pacey. However, I would love to see a saw made by W.H. Armitage & Co at the Vesuvius works between 1876 and 1891 to be sure. Anyone got one? If so, please post a picture and put this sad Englishman out of his misery. 
> 
> I won't be restoring this one for a while yet. When I removed the handle I found that it will need a new saw plate since it is cracked between two of the holes. Although I have the steel, I just don't have the time at the moment unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for looking!


Thanks guys - I can't wait to get this video behind me so I can do some woodworking. I still have a few saws to restore, but I need to work some wood first.


----------



## Brit

*Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*

Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.

I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.

Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
.




View on YouTube


----------



## ShaneA

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Whoa, I am going to have to an evening aside. Thanks in advance for the effort and hard work.


----------



## BrandonW

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thank you Andy. You're the best! Can't wait to digest this.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thanks Andy. I'm with Shane. Going to need room service and order some extra pop corn!


----------



## JayT

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


^^ +2

Woohoo, thanks Andy.


----------



## planepassion

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Well Andy, I've enjoyed the first 15 minutes a lot. Your taper ground template explained in 15 seconds what reams of unclear prose haven't made clear to me over the years. I can't tell you how much I wish I had this resource available to me when I first started. Looking forward to watching the rest of the video in small, half-hour bites with notepad at hand.

I like the wind in the background, it adds some aural interest. Not that your accent isn't pleasing, but it never hurts to have local environmental sounds (birds, wind, a wife griping at her husband…) mixed in. I also like your family photo of your backsaws because I think you've already introduced me to a bunch of them 

Very nice production values too there Andy.


----------



## CL810

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Andy, you're the best! A tip of hat to you!


----------



## WhoMe

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Andy,
Thank you in advance for all your effort creating this video. For me, I am going to have to set aside a couple evenings and re-watch several sections I am sure. 
I have not started watching it but I have bookmarked it for when I can.

Thank you again.


----------



## Tugboater78

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thanks for video in advance, i am currently away from any means to watch it but once im home i will be absorbing all info.


----------



## Tugboater78

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thanks for video in advance, i am currently away from any means to watch it but once im home i will be absorbing all info.


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


I for one, am fired up to watch this video Andy. Ill thank you in advance for cramming a bit more information into my bite sized brain. I think I can afford to replace some stuff in there with this new saw sharpening information. Im honestly excited.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thanks for all the great comments guys. I hope you all feel the same after you've actually watched it. LOL. I hope it motivates you all to have a go.

I know Smitty will be sharpening a saw or two soon because 109 days ago he said:

"Man, Andy, you keep setting the barriers to entry re: saw sharpening, lower and lower… No excuse [not] to do it, and do it well. I'm in. I promise. "

I bet he didn't think I'd remember that. )


----------



## GMatheson

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Great video Andy. I'm a little over halfway through and it looks like I'll be sharpening quite a few of my saws this summer using your methods. One lesson I really like is how you file new teeth on the plate. I'm looking forward to finishing the video soon.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thanks Greg!.

I can't remember who it was now, but somebody asked me to post a video on how I create one of my saw tooth templates for filing new teeth in Sketchup. I haven't forgotten that I promised to do that, but I decided to make it a separate video which I can assure you* won't be 2+ hours long*. I can do that one in the comfort of my hotel room wherever I happen to be.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Andy, thanks for your time and knowledge! I've only watched 5 minutes so far…find it very difficult to hit the stop button…very addictive listening to your excited introduction to hand saws!

And you have the most beautiful collection I've seen!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thanks Terry. I've still got five saws in the 'To Do' pile, but I'm going to take my own sweet time with those. It isn't like I need another saw.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Nah, Andy NEEDS a shop more than anything I can think of. Feel free to fly over the pond to Alabama and use my shop space any time…whilst I follow behing you and take notes of every action.


----------



## TimC

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Wow, I really need this. Setting aside an evening for it. Thanks for the warning on the length of video. Also subscribe.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thanks Tim - Hope you enjoy it.


----------



## Sylvain

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Andy,
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.
I will have to try this. I have bought a few saws on flea market at 2 or 3 EURO each; so I am not taking any real risk.
I just have to find good files.
I have been looking this while I am in an hotel room for business; I stopped midway to have diner.

I surely will look at it again in the future.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


*Terry* - If only it were possible. However, I think we'd be walking in circles because I would also be following you with a notebook and pen.

*Sylvain* - You're very welcome my friend.


----------



## Mosquito

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


I so can't wait for this… Now I just have to find the time to watch all of it!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


*Mos* - I always remind myself of what Mother Teresa said about time: )

Yesterday is gone. Tomorrow has not yet come. We have only today. Let us begin.
~ Mother Teresa


----------



## Mosquito

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


I watched 9:34 of it, then I decided I had better turn it off, since I'm still at work lol


----------



## dczward

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Hi Andy, what a great video. Thanks so much for taking the time to put this together, I really learned a lot. I took the time to put a plug in for your video, charity, and general thanks to you on my blog here…

http://dcwwoodworks.com/blog/2013/6/4/sharpening-western-saws-the-brit


----------



## dczward

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Oh, and regarding the production quality: it was fine, and my cats enjoyed trying to figure out where the chirping birds were!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thanks *Douglas*. I don't know why I haven't come across you before on LJs, but glad you've put that right now. I went to your home page to add you as a buddy and got side-tracked looking at your great projects. It would appear we have a lot in common.

Hobbyist woodworker - check
Professional computer consultant - check
Lifelong musician - check
Lefthanded - check
Sense of humour - check

Thanks for spreading the word through your blog too. I'll be back to take a better look at your projects and blog when things quieten down a bit on the three forums where I've posted the video. LOL.


----------



## BrandonW

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Hope you don't mind, but I shared it on the Reddit http://www.reddit.com/r/woodworking/


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Share and embed to your hearts content folks. I've got no problem with that at all.


----------



## TobyC

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Hey Andy,
Good stuff! Hope you're not unhappy with me.

Toby


----------



## TechRedneck

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Andy:

I was waiting for this video while following the saw thread. It was a lot of work you put into this (one woodworking/Tech geek to another).

I had some time this evening, got a cup of coffee and watched it straight through (with one bathroom break). The birds did not bother me a bit and actually found it soothing.

Lots of good information in there. I have one Warranted, two Disston, and one Atkins to re-hab and sharpen now. I like the Veritas guide and will put that on the list along with some files and handles. Was thinking I can use my new Moxon Vice to hold the saws.

Your suggestion to lower the resolution for those of us with slower broadband connections worked well. Sure wished I could view it in full HD but know many others will.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


*Toby* - Don't be silly, it was no big deal.

*Tech* - Glad you enjoyed it. It was a lot of work, but mostly because it was the first time I'd done something like this. The hardest part was accepting the fact that it would never be perfect. I quickly realised that the perfect day for filming outside in an urban environment doesn't exist. It was either raining, overcast or too windy in which case no filming could take place, or it was a lovely sunny, still day in which case all my neighbours would be outside mowing the grass, doing DIY, or partying around the barbeque. In the end I just said to myself: "It is what it is" and got on with it.

After I called it 'done' and I watched it all the way through, I think I agree with Brad that the background noises kind of add to it and make it unique. You don't just learn about saw sharpening, but you get to hear what living in Dorset, England sounds like. LOL.


----------



## JimDaddyO

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Great timing…I just got 2 Disston Canada saws and 2 Warranted at a yard sale for $2 CDN (for all 4). I now have an excuse to go to Lee Valley and get their files, jig and saw sets.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Glad to help Jim.


----------



## jjw5858

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Fantastic work on this Andy. Something to really be proud of!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thanks Joe.


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Im 30 minutes in and plan on spending tonight riding the couch and finishing the video. Im greased up like christmas ham!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Are you watching on AppleTV Stef?


----------



## Johnnyblot

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Well done Andy, an incredible piece of work.

I hereby award you a Blue Peter Badge.
In recognition of achievement, namely the art of saw sharpening and promoting the cause of the hobbyist woodworker:-










John Noakes couldn't have done a better job!

Cheers,

John.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Get down Shep!


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


I haven't made it all the way through yet, but the first half was incredible. I will say though, if I lived where you do Andy, I'd be shooting birds.


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Im on a tablet tgrough YouTube Andy. High def right in my lap. I can go hdmi to the tv from it which i may try tonight.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Don - I love to go outside at the crack of dawn. I find it very restful, apart from the crows. RRRAARRk, RRRAARRk.

Stef - Nice!


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


I live on a dead end road, in the woods, closest house is 1/2 mile away, I have deer, turkey, even bear in my yard, so birds are common. Maybe that's why I don't video outside, yea the birds, that's it.


----------



## charlie_c

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Andy,

WOW! Other than some bird and wind noise, the content matched the instructional quality of any woodworking DVD I have ever viewed. That being the case, I have now "bought the DVD" with a 25 pound donation, and I feel that it is some of the best money I have spent on my woodworking education this year.

Charlie


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thanks Charlie. The birds and the wind were out of my control I'm afraid. ) I'm so glad you found it useful and I really appreciate your generous donation to the charity carnival.


----------



## Mosquito

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Takin' it in small chunks. I just got done sharpening the first saw, about 46 minutes in. (And by "I", I mean "you" lol) Excellent stuff so far Brit


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


I sharpened 2 saws this morning. I'm gonna need to finish the video to see what I did wrong.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Glad you're enjoying it Mos. I think the second half is better than the first half personally, or maybe it is just that I had to watch the first half so many times to remind myself of what I'd said the week before, that I'm fed up with listening to it now. ) It was filmed over a couple of months, but for continuity I made sure I was wearing the same clothes each time and kept cutting the grass. What a pain in the butt! LOL.


----------



## Mosquito

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


lol I've read quite a bit in the past, so most of the beginning stuff wasn't "new" to me, but definitely good explanations and good to refresh on it. Anyone who is just starting out with saw sharpening is sure to find it immensely useful


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Don - Sharpen another two Don and you'll get it. Post some photos and I can probably tell you where you went wrong.

Mos - In part 11 of this blog I posted some of the links that I'd found helpful, but many people learn by seeing so I wanted to try and bring all the information together in one place. I hope it helps more woodworkers to understand the basic theory and process involved in saw sharpening and to have a go themselves.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


I posted some pic's on my saw thread. They came out good. I've never had a problem sharpening. Cutting new teeth always seems to bite me though.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Don - I'll be recording a screencast of how I make the Sketchup templates I use to cut new teeth. You can't go wrong with one of those templates.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thanks Andy. All that's left is how you research the history the way you do.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


You'd have to get inside my head to understand the whacky search criteria I use Don and there ain't nobody gettin' inside my head.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


FANTASTIC JOB ANDY.

a little plug posted on my blog.
http://timetestedtools.wordpress.com/2013/06/11/saw-filing-video/


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Cheers Don and thanks for the plug.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


just out of curiosity, how many hours do you have into it? it looks like a lot of work?


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


It does look like a lot of work doesn't it Don, but it didn't feel like it. You have to bear in mind that this was the first time I've done anything like this and the first time using the professional video editing software I bought to do it. Actually I've been meaning to get the software for a while to do other personal videos (not that sort Stef), but this prompted me to pull the trigger. There was a bit of a learning curve with the software, but not much really. If you factor out the time I spent sharpening the saws and just look at the video editing time, it was probably around 40 hours. I didn't write a script, I just wandered around the garden for a minute each time considering what I was going to say before hitting record.

It was done over the course of 2 months; whenever the weather would permit, editing on the train into London on Monday mornings, previewing in my hotel room during the week, etc. If I had to do it again, I think I could do it in about 10 hours of editing, because I got to the point where I would import a new scene and then apply the same effects like colour correction, pan and zoom, add music, speed changes, etc. It was fun though and I learnt a lot through having to try and explain what I did and why I did it.


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Im almost through the video Andy, about 1:45 in and ive learned an awful lot so far. This coming from a guy who cant sit through an entire movie. The proof will be in the pudding when I get a sharp saw that will xcut and 8" wide board in 21 strokes. Yup I counted. Im looking forward to all the rehabs ive got. Thanks again for all your work.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


You can do it Stef! Take it slowly at first and you'll soon speed up.


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


I got nothing but time brother …. files are due in shortly, another quick purchase on some saw sets, and a shop made saw vice should put me in a good place. I need my panel rip saw for some tenons on my pending workbench so that should be enough fuel for me to jump right in.

BTW - the acronym jssjs was pretty funny. JoSh Seli Josh is how I remembered it. Joint, shape, set, lightly joint, shape.

We'll enjoy an e-beer together when im done with my first saw


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Almost got it Stef. )

*J*oint - *S*hape - *S*et - *L*ightly joint - *S*harpen


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Ahhh - darn information retention. Im thinking that whenever I get around to the sharpening ill bring the tablet into the shop with me. A little piece of merry old England right here in merry New England. Im pretty sure ill run through the video one more time before I go and screw something else up.


----------



## MrFid

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Great vid! Thanks for being a lefty. Makes it easier not to have to convert one more time today.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thanks *MrFid* - You can't argue with science my friend. LOL.


----------



## OnlyJustME

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


good thing i'm ambidextrous.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


I was out of the country and wasn't able to download it where I was, I was glad to come home and catch up, watching your video was high on my list. I took me a few sittings but I finally got through it.

Great content, visual aids, and presentation style. I thought the sounds of nature in the background were a refreshing touch. Thanks for putting this together Andy.

I'm off to buy some files and give to your charity! You earned a cold one my friend. Great work!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Glad you enjoyed it Mauricio and thank you so much for your donation. It is much appreciated. I'll raise a cold one to you my friend.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Hi Andy,
Just took a quick look and love it.
After the holydays I will take a full look, and who knows perhaps finally get started.
Enjoy the sun.
Best thoughts my friend,
Mads


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


You're woodworking skills will then be complete Mads. LOL.


----------



## jessestrum

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


andy i came across your saw video by accident on youyube , i am amazed at the vast knowledge you have on sharpening saws its the best i,ve seen on the subject i,ve been struggling with cows and calfs , sick of plastic handle throaways , so i,m going to sharpen all my old saws thankyou


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thanks Jessestrum and welcome to LJs.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


;-)


----------



## rob2

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Excellent video. Birds are a nice touch. Didn't realize what a difference left handed makes. THANK YOU!


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Im almost done with my first saw Andy! Your video was, and is, an invaluable tool throughout this whole process.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Excellent Stef! Glad to hear you found it useful. That makes it all worthwhile. Seriously!

I'll be catching up with your blog tomorrow along with everyone elses. I'm a bit busy at the moment studying and commenting on the new designs and specs for the saw files that Brett has put together. I want to ensure I give Brett my full support and provide him with thorough feedback. I can't say too much at present, but Brett is doing a truly fabulous job. I'm honored to be a part of this revolution and when you consider the other names on the list below, more than a little bit humbled.


----------



## theoldfart

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Andy, auspicious list. THE BIG TIME !!!!!


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Some solid company Andy. I cant wait to hear all about it.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Ive tried to sign up but got an error each time. Might be my work computers settings. I'll have to try from my home pc.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Please do Mauricio. Every signature counts.


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Anybody got the link handy?


----------



## theoldfart

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


change.org


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


*Mauricio* http://lumberjocks.com/topics/50943


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thanks fellas. I keep getting this "· There was an error submitting your form. Please try again later."


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Ok, got it to work on the wife's computer. I'm signed up! Stick it to the Man!


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Yeah shes here next to me on Pinterest thinking of crap for me to make out of plywood. :-(


----------



## wardus1973

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


You are a saw sharpening rock star! Thanks for sharing… I learned a great deal from your video and am going to watch it a few times.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thanks Wardus. Glad you found it useful.


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Brother Andy .. have you got any suggestion on rake angles for rip saws?

The 10 ppi one I sharpened I used 8 degrees of rake but thinking back on it should I have used less to make up for the lack of aggression of a 10 ppi?

Ive also got a 6 ppi that ill be starting this week. Im thinking that 8 degrees might be a good spot for this one and then the 4 1/2 ppi ive got would get 10 degrees. Increasing the rake as the ppi get more spread out to make it easier to start a cut?

Just feelin ya out sensei.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Stef - As you know, there really is no right and wrong here within reason and it comes down to what you want to use the saws for, whether you will predominantly use them on softwood or hardwood, your own personal preference and you ability and experience at sawing. However, I realise that isn't much help so this is what I would do for your saws.

4 1/2ppi - 8 degrees of rake, 0 degrees of fleam. Use for breaking down stock quickly where the finish left behind is not important.
6ppi - 6 degrees of rake, 0 degrees of fleam. Use for accurately sizing stock that will then be planed where the finish left behind is not important.
10ppi - 4 degree of rake, 3 degrees of fleam. Use for cutting joinery that will be fitted from the saw with little or no planing.


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Seems like I was on the right track with my thinking at least. I really appreciate your advice on this Andy. I probably jumped the gun on sharpening the 10 ppi but that's all right, I can always go back and doctor it back up.

I was just alerted by my wife that the Grobet files I ordered from LV have come in. Im hoping to get a test run with them tonight. It should allow me a nice comparison between those and the Simonds I have. I just filled in the remaining gaps to round out a full set of files. Now I can firmly tackle any saw thrown my way. Hell yea.

Thumbhole … you're next. Stef's comin fo ya!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Go get 'em Stef.


----------



## theoldfart

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Stef, pics/narrative pronto. Spoken by the guy who had Matt Cianci sharpen his dovetail! When bench done I learn sharpen.


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Got about an hour, hour and a half in on that D8 thumbhole last night using the newly received Grobet files.

Ive found that after sharpening your first saw you start to realize what to look for. I also realized that those shiners you create from the jointing are wicked important as they address when to start and when to stop. I think I had a bunch of things click for me last night. On the last saw I was counting strokes and it kind of drove me crazy; im a counter by nature (don't ask why because I don't even know). This time around I let the shiners tell me when to stop. It doesn't matter if one tooth take 15 strokes and the other take 5, as long as the gullets are the same depth and there is no shiner left on top, you're good.

For what its worth I like the Grobet files. I cant rightly compare them to the Simonds I have just yet but after another saw or 2 with each file I should be able to give a pretty good breakdown on the difference.

It aint much but its something:


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Good for you Stef. The problem with saying that one lot of saw files are better than another lot of saw files is that even though you like the Grobets this time around, the next batch you order could be crap and therein lies the frustration that we all experience with the current makes. They are inconsistent. Hopefully the petition will resolve that.


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Agreed Andy. I haven't gone through enough to see any inconsistencies but im sure they're there. Lots of metal coming off this one to get it into a useable state.

Hows the week off been treatin ya buddy? Getting some stuff done or what?


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Week was very relaxing. Did a couple of projects the wife wanted me to make for the Christmas carnival in December and then I restored that little 10" Garlick & Sons saw. There was a surprising amount of work in that one. Turned out OK though, or at least it will once I've sorted out that busted split nut issue.

I'm back at work now for two weeks and then I have another two weeks off. Yippee!


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


I need me some holiday like that. That Garlick looked great sans the split nut debacle. Does this mean you've got some DT's in your future. I sure hope so.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Nothin in particular Stef, but I'll probably do some just to keep my hand in and try out the saw.


----------



## theoldfart

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Andy, Don't know if youv'e seen this, Bad Ax has a page showing how to modify a wooden screw clamp to help get out a stubborn screw.
http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/unlocking-a-frozen-sawnut.html


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Yeah thanks, I've read everything on that site more times than I've had hot dinners. ) I didn't have a problem getting either of the screws out though. It was just bad luck that one broke on me while I was sanding the head on some P800. I hate 'em. Modern alternatives are so much better.


----------



## DonBroussard

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Andy-+1 on all the nice compliments and my thanks for a nice instructional video. I finally treated myself to watching the whole video in two seatings, and it was well worth it. For a first production, you did very well with the narration and the camera angles-I think it was beneficial that you're a lefty too! Being it'll be November tomorrow, you might want to put a reminder about your charity around Christmas time.


----------



## DonBroussard

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Duplicate post.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thanks Don.


----------



## LiamMor

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Brit,

I would like to thank you very much for making your exemplary saw-sharpening video.

All the best.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thanks Liam. Glad you found it useful.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


I was asked if the three tooth geometry charts that I talk about at the end of the video were available to download as a PDF anywhere. You can get them here. Depending on the speed of your connection, it might take a minute or two before you can see all three pages of the PDF. Please be patient, it will work. Once the file has finished displaying, you will be able to click the DOWNLOAD button.


----------



## BrettUK

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Great video Brit, thanks for sharing.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thanks Brett. Glad you enjoyed it.


----------



## ArlinEastman

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


A friend of mine on another woodworking website gave me the link to your video.

It has a ton of information on it and a person will really have to watch it a few times to understand and grasp all of the information.
You did a swell job

Arlin


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thanks Arlin. Good luck with your saw sharpening. Don't be intimidated by it, just accept the fact that you will make a few mistakes when you start out. Anyone who has learned to sharpen their own saws messed up the first few. You won't do anything that can't be put right. Persevere and you'll get the hang of it.


----------



## Andy1010

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


I watched your sharpening western style saw video and I was wondering how do you finish you saw handles to get that lovely redish orange color on most of the saws in the video I'm restoring a backsaw now and would love to obtain that color.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thanks Andy1010. I detail my approach to finishing saw handles in the following post.

http://lumberjocks.com/replies/1273946


----------



## SamuelP

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


It keeps getting better the more times you watch it.

Thanks!


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thanks Sam. I'm glad you find it useful.


----------



## Holbs

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Thanks Brit for the video. Just watched all 2 1/2 hours and in combination with other video's and info. Really in depth with great visualizations with those charts at the end I need to print out somehow 
Any thoughts about progressive pitch aka LN types?


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


You're welcome Holbs.

I have filed some saws with progressive pitch but for me I don't really see they give any advantage. The idea behind them is that they are easier to start, but I don't have a problem starting my saws so it felt like I was solving a problem that didn't exist in the first place. They aren't for me, but some people like them. I do have some 26" and 28" rip saws that are filed progressively though, mainly because that's how they came and I would have wasted too much metal filing the teeth off in order to change the tooth spacing.


----------



## Andrew1500

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Andrew LeRoy <andrew>

Sat, Dec 29, 4:39 AM (1 day ago)
to Brit

Andy,

I just wanted to say thanks for filming the saw sharpening video and let you know how much i appreciate it and how much it helped me in my quest for sharp saws.

I don't know if you have a copy but I came across a small electronic book about sharpening saws called "The Saw Dictionary", by Charles Johnson. t is a bit of an advertisement for the Atkins Saw Company but has some good information about sharpening from the earliest 20th century.

If you would like an electronic copy just give me an email and I will get it to you.

Regards,


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


You're welcome Andrew. Glad you found it helpful. I've already read 'The Saw Dictionary' but thanks for the offer. Good luck with your saw sharpening.

If you're interested in all things related to saws, you might like to subscribe to the 'Saws, using, collecting, cleaning and buying' forum which you can find here: http://lumberjocks.com/topics/27984#reply-5173686


----------



## Andrew1500

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


I will have a look. Thanks.


----------



## JotaPete

Brit said:


> *Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video*
> 
> Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.
> 
> I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.
> 
> Now here's the video. *Enjoy!*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View on YouTube


Would there be any advantage in sharpening a tenon saw with a mix of rip and cross cut teeth so it can be used in for both grain orientations, would it give a clean cut across the grain without sacrificing rip speed? Just a thought.

Pete


----------



## Brit

*Holtzapffel Saw File Handle Dimensions*

Just a quick post for you guys out there with a lathe.

Since posting my saw sharpening video in Saw Talk #28, I've had a few enquiries about the saw file handles I use. I get them from an online retailer here in the UK and as far as I know they aren't available anywhere else. That means that if you don't live in the UK, shipping can be a bit prohibitive. So here are the dimensions (in millimetres I'm afraid) for anyone who is handy with a lathe. They are are a 'one size fits all' handle and are certainly the most comfortable file handles I've ever used. I'm sure someone could make a few bucks by knocking up a batch and posting them for sale on this blog. If you are interested in purchasing some, why not register your interest here too and hopefully there will be enough interest to convince someone to turn a batch.



Hope this helps.


----------



## Jimendo

Brit said:


> *Holtzapffel Saw File Handle Dimensions*
> 
> Just a quick post for you guys out there with a lathe.
> 
> Since posting my saw sharpening video in Saw Talk #28, I've had a few enquiries about the saw file handles I use. I get them from an online retailer here in the UK and as far as I know they aren't available anywhere else. That means that if you don't live in the UK, shipping can be a bit prohibitive. So here are the dimensions (in millimetres I'm afraid) for anyone who is handy with a lathe. They are are a 'one size fits all' handle and are certainly the most comfortable file handles I've ever used. I'm sure someone could make a few bucks by knocking up a batch and posting them for sale on this blog. If you are interested in purchasing some, why not register your interest here too and hopefully there will be enough interest to convince someone to turn a batch.
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.


They are really nice looking. Don't they ship across the pond?


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Holtzapffel Saw File Handle Dimensions*
> 
> Just a quick post for you guys out there with a lathe.
> 
> Since posting my saw sharpening video in Saw Talk #28, I've had a few enquiries about the saw file handles I use. I get them from an online retailer here in the UK and as far as I know they aren't available anywhere else. That means that if you don't live in the UK, shipping can be a bit prohibitive. So here are the dimensions (in millimetres I'm afraid) for anyone who is handy with a lathe. They are are a 'one size fits all' handle and are certainly the most comfortable file handles I've ever used. I'm sure someone could make a few bucks by knocking up a batch and posting them for sale on this blog. If you are interested in purchasing some, why not register your interest here too and hopefully there will be enough interest to convince someone to turn a batch.
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.


Yes Jim they do, but it would be cheaper for someone to use their turning skill to make a batch and sell the extras to others who are interested. If you want to see how much shipping will cost, here's a link to site.

http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Holtzapffel_Pattern_Walnut_Handles.html

I pretended I lived in New York and this is how the costs panned out for 10 handles when sending them via airmail and I don't believe the cost takes account of any customs charges (if applicable). Just in case you can't read it, the total is £48.30 which is approximately $75.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *Holtzapffel Saw File Handle Dimensions*
> 
> Just a quick post for you guys out there with a lathe.
> 
> Since posting my saw sharpening video in Saw Talk #28, I've had a few enquiries about the saw file handles I use. I get them from an online retailer here in the UK and as far as I know they aren't available anywhere else. That means that if you don't live in the UK, shipping can be a bit prohibitive. So here are the dimensions (in millimetres I'm afraid) for anyone who is handy with a lathe. They are are a 'one size fits all' handle and are certainly the most comfortable file handles I've ever used. I'm sure someone could make a few bucks by knocking up a batch and posting them for sale on this blog. If you are interested in purchasing some, why not register your interest here too and hopefully there will be enough interest to convince someone to turn a batch.
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.


Thanks for the dimensions, Andy. Luckily, I now have some great saw files…but no shop time for the past month. Darn farm duties keeping me busy…

Hey, do you glue your files into the handles, or just use a friction fit, so the handle is re-usable?


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Holtzapffel Saw File Handle Dimensions*
> 
> Just a quick post for you guys out there with a lathe.
> 
> Since posting my saw sharpening video in Saw Talk #28, I've had a few enquiries about the saw file handles I use. I get them from an online retailer here in the UK and as far as I know they aren't available anywhere else. That means that if you don't live in the UK, shipping can be a bit prohibitive. So here are the dimensions (in millimetres I'm afraid) for anyone who is handy with a lathe. They are are a 'one size fits all' handle and are certainly the most comfortable file handles I've ever used. I'm sure someone could make a few bucks by knocking up a batch and posting them for sale on this blog. If you are interested in purchasing some, why not register your interest here too and hopefully there will be enough interest to convince someone to turn a batch.
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.


Terry - No I never glue handles onto files, especially saw files, since they have only a limited life.


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *Holtzapffel Saw File Handle Dimensions*
> 
> Just a quick post for you guys out there with a lathe.
> 
> Since posting my saw sharpening video in Saw Talk #28, I've had a few enquiries about the saw file handles I use. I get them from an online retailer here in the UK and as far as I know they aren't available anywhere else. That means that if you don't live in the UK, shipping can be a bit prohibitive. So here are the dimensions (in millimetres I'm afraid) for anyone who is handy with a lathe. They are are a 'one size fits all' handle and are certainly the most comfortable file handles I've ever used. I'm sure someone could make a few bucks by knocking up a batch and posting them for sale on this blog. If you are interested in purchasing some, why not register your interest here too and hopefully there will be enough interest to convince someone to turn a batch.
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.


Thanks, Andy, that's what I figured because of the short life of the file.

So, why in the heck are you having TEN handles shipped to NY? Oohhh…Don's elves…I understand now…

LOL


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Holtzapffel Saw File Handle Dimensions*
> 
> Just a quick post for you guys out there with a lathe.
> 
> Since posting my saw sharpening video in Saw Talk #28, I've had a few enquiries about the saw file handles I use. I get them from an online retailer here in the UK and as far as I know they aren't available anywhere else. That means that if you don't live in the UK, shipping can be a bit prohibitive. So here are the dimensions (in millimetres I'm afraid) for anyone who is handy with a lathe. They are are a 'one size fits all' handle and are certainly the most comfortable file handles I've ever used. I'm sure someone could make a few bucks by knocking up a batch and posting them for sale on this blog. If you are interested in purchasing some, why not register your interest here too and hopefully there will be enough interest to convince someone to turn a batch.
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.


Terry - ive been using the Skrewz-On handles, they don't fit the big 8" file or the 4" xxslim file. I like em though. They appear to be beech, unfinished.


----------



## AnthonyReed

Brit said:


> *Holtzapffel Saw File Handle Dimensions*
> 
> Just a quick post for you guys out there with a lathe.
> 
> Since posting my saw sharpening video in Saw Talk #28, I've had a few enquiries about the saw file handles I use. I get them from an online retailer here in the UK and as far as I know they aren't available anywhere else. That means that if you don't live in the UK, shipping can be a bit prohibitive. So here are the dimensions (in millimetres I'm afraid) for anyone who is handy with a lathe. They are are a 'one size fits all' handle and are certainly the most comfortable file handles I've ever used. I'm sure someone could make a few bucks by knocking up a batch and posting them for sale on this blog. If you are interested in purchasing some, why not register your interest here too and hopefully there will be enough interest to convince someone to turn a batch.
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.


You need some form of official recognition for the amount of time and effort you have exerted breathing life back into the art of saw sharpening.

Thank you Andy.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Holtzapffel Saw File Handle Dimensions*
> 
> Just a quick post for you guys out there with a lathe.
> 
> Since posting my saw sharpening video in Saw Talk #28, I've had a few enquiries about the saw file handles I use. I get them from an online retailer here in the UK and as far as I know they aren't available anywhere else. That means that if you don't live in the UK, shipping can be a bit prohibitive. So here are the dimensions (in millimetres I'm afraid) for anyone who is handy with a lathe. They are are a 'one size fits all' handle and are certainly the most comfortable file handles I've ever used. I'm sure someone could make a few bucks by knocking up a batch and posting them for sale on this blog. If you are interested in purchasing some, why not register your interest here too and hopefully there will be enough interest to convince someone to turn a batch.
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.


Thanks Tony. Funny how things work out isn't it. I never thought when I started this blog all those months ago that I would become so fascinated by a tool that on the face of it is nothing more than a sheet of steel with a jagged edge secured to a wooden handle with a few bolts. Truth is, a saw isn't a simple tool at all and there are many little details that come together to make a saw cut well. It has been a humbling, rewarding and sometimes frustrating journey for me, but I wouldn't have missed it for all the tea in China. I now feel that I really understand these tools and that understanding has led to me appreciating them more and using them more effectively and efficiently.

I can't thank all you guys enough for your encouragement along the way. There were times when I doubted I would ever learn to sharpen well, but you all carried me through those times and now I think no more of sharpening one of my saws than I do of sharpening a chisel or a plane iron.


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Holtzapffel Saw File Handle Dimensions*
> 
> Just a quick post for you guys out there with a lathe.
> 
> Since posting my saw sharpening video in Saw Talk #28, I've had a few enquiries about the saw file handles I use. I get them from an online retailer here in the UK and as far as I know they aren't available anywhere else. That means that if you don't live in the UK, shipping can be a bit prohibitive. So here are the dimensions (in millimetres I'm afraid) for anyone who is handy with a lathe. They are are a 'one size fits all' handle and are certainly the most comfortable file handles I've ever used. I'm sure someone could make a few bucks by knocking up a batch and posting them for sale on this blog. If you are interested in purchasing some, why not register your interest here too and hopefully there will be enough interest to convince someone to turn a batch.
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.


+1 to what Tony said.

A medal, a badge, a hat …. Get this man some adornments.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Holtzapffel Saw File Handle Dimensions*
> 
> Just a quick post for you guys out there with a lathe.
> 
> Since posting my saw sharpening video in Saw Talk #28, I've had a few enquiries about the saw file handles I use. I get them from an online retailer here in the UK and as far as I know they aren't available anywhere else. That means that if you don't live in the UK, shipping can be a bit prohibitive. So here are the dimensions (in millimetres I'm afraid) for anyone who is handy with a lathe. They are are a 'one size fits all' handle and are certainly the most comfortable file handles I've ever used. I'm sure someone could make a few bucks by knocking up a batch and posting them for sale on this blog. If you are interested in purchasing some, why not register your interest here too and hopefully there will be enough interest to convince someone to turn a batch.
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.


with some trumpets in the background!!!


----------



## jjw5858

Brit said:


> *Holtzapffel Saw File Handle Dimensions*
> 
> Just a quick post for you guys out there with a lathe.
> 
> Since posting my saw sharpening video in Saw Talk #28, I've had a few enquiries about the saw file handles I use. I get them from an online retailer here in the UK and as far as I know they aren't available anywhere else. That means that if you don't live in the UK, shipping can be a bit prohibitive. So here are the dimensions (in millimetres I'm afraid) for anyone who is handy with a lathe. They are are a 'one size fits all' handle and are certainly the most comfortable file handles I've ever used. I'm sure someone could make a few bucks by knocking up a batch and posting them for sale on this blog. If you are interested in purchasing some, why not register your interest here too and hopefully there will be enough interest to convince someone to turn a batch.
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.


As always Andy, the best handsaw info is always here with your informative blog work. Thank you for always providing great detailed information. Hope all is well, take care.

Joe


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Holtzapffel Saw File Handle Dimensions*
> 
> Just a quick post for you guys out there with a lathe.
> 
> Since posting my saw sharpening video in Saw Talk #28, I've had a few enquiries about the saw file handles I use. I get them from an online retailer here in the UK and as far as I know they aren't available anywhere else. That means that if you don't live in the UK, shipping can be a bit prohibitive. So here are the dimensions (in millimetres I'm afraid) for anyone who is handy with a lathe. They are are a 'one size fits all' handle and are certainly the most comfortable file handles I've ever used. I'm sure someone could make a few bucks by knocking up a batch and posting them for sale on this blog. If you are interested in purchasing some, why not register your interest here too and hopefully there will be enough interest to convince someone to turn a batch.
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.


You guys crack me up. Do you mean something like this Don? LOL.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Holtzapffel Saw File Handle Dimensions*
> 
> Just a quick post for you guys out there with a lathe.
> 
> Since posting my saw sharpening video in Saw Talk #28, I've had a few enquiries about the saw file handles I use. I get them from an online retailer here in the UK and as far as I know they aren't available anywhere else. That means that if you don't live in the UK, shipping can be a bit prohibitive. So here are the dimensions (in millimetres I'm afraid) for anyone who is handy with a lathe. They are are a 'one size fits all' handle and are certainly the most comfortable file handles I've ever used. I'm sure someone could make a few bucks by knocking up a batch and posting them for sale on this blog. If you are interested in purchasing some, why not register your interest here too and hopefully there will be enough interest to convince someone to turn a batch.
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.


Ahhhh, now we're talkin!!


----------



## mochoa

Brit said:


> *Holtzapffel Saw File Handle Dimensions*
> 
> Just a quick post for you guys out there with a lathe.
> 
> Since posting my saw sharpening video in Saw Talk #28, I've had a few enquiries about the saw file handles I use. I get them from an online retailer here in the UK and as far as I know they aren't available anywhere else. That means that if you don't live in the UK, shipping can be a bit prohibitive. So here are the dimensions (in millimetres I'm afraid) for anyone who is handy with a lathe. They are are a 'one size fits all' handle and are certainly the most comfortable file handles I've ever used. I'm sure someone could make a few bucks by knocking up a batch and posting them for sale on this blog. If you are interested in purchasing some, why not register your interest here too and hopefully there will be enough interest to convince someone to turn a batch.
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.


Andy deserves the LJ of the year award if such an award exists. If not there should be one!


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Holtzapffel Saw File Handle Dimensions*
> 
> Just a quick post for you guys out there with a lathe.
> 
> Since posting my saw sharpening video in Saw Talk #28, I've had a few enquiries about the saw file handles I use. I get them from an online retailer here in the UK and as far as I know they aren't available anywhere else. That means that if you don't live in the UK, shipping can be a bit prohibitive. So here are the dimensions (in millimetres I'm afraid) for anyone who is handy with a lathe. They are are a 'one size fits all' handle and are certainly the most comfortable file handles I've ever used. I'm sure someone could make a few bucks by knocking up a batch and posting them for sale on this blog. If you are interested in purchasing some, why not register your interest here too and hopefully there will be enough interest to convince someone to turn a batch.
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.


Yea Maur you're on to something …. kinda like ESPN does the Arthur Ashe award for courage. We could dub this the Andy Award for Kickin Ass.

Ya got my vote … (cue the trumpets)


----------



## superdav721

Brit said:


> *Holtzapffel Saw File Handle Dimensions*
> 
> Just a quick post for you guys out there with a lathe.
> 
> Since posting my saw sharpening video in Saw Talk #28, I've had a few enquiries about the saw file handles I use. I get them from an online retailer here in the UK and as far as I know they aren't available anywhere else. That means that if you don't live in the UK, shipping can be a bit prohibitive. So here are the dimensions (in millimetres I'm afraid) for anyone who is handy with a lathe. They are are a 'one size fits all' handle and are certainly the most comfortable file handles I've ever used. I'm sure someone could make a few bucks by knocking up a batch and posting them for sale on this blog. If you are interested in purchasing some, why not register your interest here too and hopefully there will be enough interest to convince someone to turn a batch.
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.


This will be useful for future reference.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Holtzapffel Saw File Handle Dimensions*
> 
> Just a quick post for you guys out there with a lathe.
> 
> Since posting my saw sharpening video in Saw Talk #28, I've had a few enquiries about the saw file handles I use. I get them from an online retailer here in the UK and as far as I know they aren't available anywhere else. That means that if you don't live in the UK, shipping can be a bit prohibitive. So here are the dimensions (in millimetres I'm afraid) for anyone who is handy with a lathe. They are are a 'one size fits all' handle and are certainly the most comfortable file handles I've ever used. I'm sure someone could make a few bucks by knocking up a batch and posting them for sale on this blog. If you are interested in purchasing some, why not register your interest here too and hopefully there will be enough interest to convince someone to turn a batch.
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.


Thanks Dave. They're really comfortable.


----------



## Brit

*Warranted Superior Medallions*

Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:

"I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"










Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.










On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?

This coat of arms bears two mottos:

1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.

2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:

*HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.

There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.










By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.





































Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.










The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.










I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.

Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.

*1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*

Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.

It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.

*2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.



















There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.

*3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.

Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.

I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.

*4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.

Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"

In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.










Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?










If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.




























Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )

The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.

At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


----------



## ScaleShipWright

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


Andy,

this is very interesting, thank you for sharing such a load of information.


----------



## Smitty_Cabinetshop

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


I definitely learned something, heck, a bunch of somethings, this morning. Thank you, Andy, for the time and effort you've put in to this post. Very informative and quite interesting.


----------



## donwilwol

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


well done Andy. No database guy here, but it sounds like a good idea.


----------



## need2boat

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


Cheers. Andy well researched and thought out!!

Joe


----------



## terryR

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


Excellent post, as always, Andy! I will from now on keep my WS medallions just as clean as 'name brands'.

Thanks for digging up all this data, and sharing!


----------



## planepassion

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


Excellent post Andy. Really enjoyed learning the history of the coat of arms…as well as the fact that British WS saws are just as high-quality as named brand ones. I've eschewed WS saws here in the US because why would I buy a second-line saw when I have access to so many first-line saws? From now on, I'll be looking closely at the WS medallions…


----------



## stefang

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


Great post with a lot of interesting info Andy. I would guess that there was a lot competition between American and English manufacturers at the time. Remember that the Southern states were trading their cotton for English manufactured goods, The main reason for the American civil war. The Northern states where the steel mills and most manufacturing was located wanted higher tariffs as protection against English manufacture goods, which would choke the economy of the South. Of course I am not talking about saws produced so far back, but it wouldn't surprise me if English manufacturers still had a large part of the Southern market, even up until recent times considering the resentment many Southerners felt for the North in the aftermath of the war.


----------



## summerfi

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


Andy, I love it! I've always been a history buff, so this historical element of vintage tools is fascinating to me. Thank you for the time you've taken to do this excellent piece of research and documentation. This is relevant to me in more ways than one because my great x 18 grandfather, Sir Walter Hungerford, was a Knight of the Garter. If I'm not mistaken I'm also related to Richard I as well, but then I suppose a lot of people of English descent are.

Based on a thread at backsaw.net, the medallion below is supposedly King George (which one I don't know) slaying a dragon from horseback. It is, therefore, apparently of British origin too.










I actually own two medallions bearing the British coat of arms. The one below is one I recently bought on ebay (not in my possession yet). It was sold by a treasure hunter who dug it up somewhere in eastern Canada. This is the one that prompted my question about where it may have come from and what saw it may have been on.










The second one is a 1/2" diameter secondary medallion that is on a J. Taylor & Son saw. Note that the two A's in WARRANTED are missing. Whether this is from wear or a casting defect I don't know. Unfortunately the primary medallion is missing from this saw, so I don't know if it was a WS or the typical recumbent lamb found on Taylor saws.










Another interesting factoid I found while reading about this is that apparently there were (at least) two brass casting companies who were licensed (authorized, trade marked? - not sure of the correct term) to make British WS medallions, which they then sold to many of the various saw makers. I suspect this was also the practice with saw handle making, since many of the handles on different makes of vintage British saws look so much alike.

Andy, I think a database on WS medallions is an excellent idea, and I can think of no one better to do it than yourself. Give it some thought. Maybe even expand it to include other data on vintage saws. Whether you do or not, I truly appreciate the thought and effort you put into answering my question. Many thanks, my friend.


----------



## ScaleShipWright

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


I am inclined to think that the guy depicted is Saint George rather than king George.

Edit: Saint George is the patron of England.


----------



## TobyC

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


Andy Andy Andy!!!

You missed one very important aspect of the "English" Warranted Superior label screw! The eight crossed arrows are from the Sheffield coat of arms!


----------



## TobyC

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


Royal seal.










Sheffield official blazon.


----------



## TobyC

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


This label screw










was used on some Ibbotson Brothers saws, but was not exclusively theirs.


----------



## TobyC

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


FROM HERE. These guys owned the rights to the sheffield label screws.

More on that in a moment, but I first wanted to outline the two over-
lapping successions of firms which are related to this trade mark.

The first succession goes something like this, as far as I've been able
to reconstruct at present:

INGLE & TRICKETT Sheffield 
51 Rockingham Street

SMITH & CO., HENRY Sheffield 
51 Rockingham Street
("Late Ingle & Trickett")

SMITH, WILLIAM HENRY Sheffield 
51 Rockingham Street

These firms are listed as brass founders throughout, with the first
mention of the making of saw screws in 1833. They were also listed as
german silver founders beginning in 1849.

The second succession of firms, goes something like this, at present:

MOORWOOD & PRIEST Sheffield 1854 - 1856
64 Scotland Street
(Edwin Moorwood & Alfred Priest)
PRIEST, ALFRED Sheffield 1857 - 1862 ->
64 Scotland Street [1857]
60 Pea Croft [1862]
PRIEST & CO. Sheffield 
Pea Croft Works, 60 Pea Croft [1879 - 1893]
Pea Croft Brass Works, 60 Solly Street [1901-1905]
188 Brook Street [1911]
56 Eyre Street [1919 - 1925]

These firms were also listed as brass founders throughout their tenure,
and the manufacture of saw screws and german silver was mentioned from
the start.

As to the "Warranted Superior"/coat-of-arms medallion being registered
as a trade mark, the earliest indication I've found of that is in 1879,
in association with the William Henry Smith firm. These are links to
the trade mark listing and an advertisement in the 1879 directory:

http://www.planemaker.com/photos/whsmith.jpg

http://www.planemaker.com/photos/whsmith2.jpg

At some point between 1879 and 1901, Priest and Co. seems to have
purchased rights to the trade mark, as Ray has already indicated.
Their 1901 trade mark listing can be found at this link:

http://www.planemaker.com/photos/Priest.jpg

So, it would appear that all such medallions, for quite some time,
would have been manufactured by one of these firms. At this point, I
don't know how early the W. H. Smith succession of firms registered
it as a trade mark, but they had been making saw screws for over 40
years by 1879, and may have registered it some years earlier.

Hope this has been of some interest.

Don McConnell
Eureka Springs, AR


----------



## TobyC

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


From here. That's Dr. Simon Barley.

The George and Dragon was a regular medallion design, but much less common than the usual W/S type. It was always used by SSBrittain, and an extremely early example is on a back saw by Samuel Hill - about 1825.
There is more than one type of W/S medallion with a coat of arms in it; the commonest by far is a composite, not a true coat of arms as would be recognised as such by the College of Arms in London, the centre being derived from the city of Sheffield's arms, which has 8 crossed arrows, with a sheaf (River Sheaf - Sheffield - geddit?) of corn on each side, and the lion and unicorn, with Dieu et Mon Droit underneath. If you get a lot of good examples and blow the photos up large, you can see there are a good many tiny variations on this design, indicating, I believe, that there were a lot of different makers of them. I can't explain how it was that one firm, as mentioned in Don's explanation, apparently came to be able to trade mark them. Did others get round it by the tiny variations?
Then there are the true royal coats of arms, as illustrated in the original post with the Martin saw. They aren't very common, and were used mainly by Marsden Brothers (and their later emanations), who held a royal warranty for making skates for Prince Albert (husband of Q.Victoria). 
I have an unsubstantiated impression that Sheffield saws exported to the US [or Canada - sorry, Kiwi] were more likely to have multiple medallions, often of different sizes, rarely of different designs - is that the experience of others?
I've not been able to date the usual type of W/S medallion prior to about 1860 - have others seen earlier examples?


----------



## TobyC

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


Andy said,

"Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions?"

Look at the label screws in that link.




























They are brand specific, not just generic stuff that someone put in there. They were for the US market.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


*ScaleShipwright* - My pleasure sir.

*Smitty* - Glad you found it interesting and educational.

*Don* - I think you're being extremely modest. Just sayin'.

*Joe* - Thanks for dropping in. Loving your blog by the way.

*Terry* - Get your shine on buddy! On another note, it is all done and will be on it's way to you tomorrow.

*Brad* - Cheers. Yeah, you can certainly get lost in the history of this green and pleasant land. Unfortunately though, it isn't always a history to be proud of.

*Mike* - Thanks for raising that interesting point. I hadn't considered influences like that, but I'm sure you're right.

*Bob* - Holy heraldry batman! Your grandfather x 18 was Sir Walter Hungerford. That interesting nugget of information is enough to draw a "THAT's AWESOME!!!" from the mouth an Englishman. So this is your coat of arms then.










By the way, that's an interesting 1/2" secondary medallion with the two AAs missing. I've wouldn't have thought that was possible. I mean I've seen some medallions that are very worn, but that doesn't look like the AAs were ever present. You can rest assured though that the larger medallion would have been a WS medallion too though, just like this Tillotson:










*Toby* - I didn't forget. I knew you'd be along sooner or later and I wanted to leave something for you bro'. Seriously though, I must have spent 3 hours trying to find out what that was on the shield and what it signified so thanks buddy. Where did you find that snippet of information?

For those who don't have an English WS medallion to look at, on the shield there are eight arrows, two sets of four
crossed at a 45 degree angle. As Toby said, they come from the Sheffield coat of arms shown below.










Glad you've got my back Toby. )


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


You're not wrong Toby. It is a bit feint, but you can just make out the Knight on horseback.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


*Toby* said - "They are brand specific, not just generic stuff that someone put in there. They were for the US market." I would tend to agree Toby.


----------



## summerfi

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


ScaleShipWight - You are absolutely correct about Saint George. Nice catch. See this.

Andy said - "You can rest assured though that the larger medallion would have been a WS medallion too though, just like this Tillotson:"

That's a nice bit of information. Now I know where I'll put that other WS medallion I have coming. BTW thanks for the coat of arms. I would share a link to an article I wrote about Hungerford, but the web hosting server it's on seems to have crashed.


----------



## mafe

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


Interesting stuff Andy, you are really building a blog that beats all others on saws.
I cant help but to be a little sad, this that when I go to the tool shops now, I see loads of plastic and no medalions…
So a treasure the story lives and you help us giving life to the saws.
Best thoughts my friend,
Mads


----------



## AnthonyReed

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


Wonderful amount of information.

Thank you Andy, Toby and Bob.


----------



## chrisstef

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


Ill be giving my saws a solid once over to try and identify any WS medallions. My brain is now swimming with extra information. Wonderful lesson here.


----------



## Slyy

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


Awesome write up Andy, sleuthing out the connections and history of these old tools we are all so obsessed with just helps fuel the passion and the knowledge of our history.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


Thanks Slyy.


----------



## lioneltrains

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.












This is my first post to LumberJocks. I was looking for information on a WS saw I have that is in poor condition and beyond my capability of restoration; however, it has a great medallion and fortunately I found the link to your article on Warranted Superior Medallions. Since the medallion on my saw is not listed in your article I am attaching a picture for your consideration. It has a patent date of December 31, 1867. It may not be clear but the medallion reads "Pat. Dec. WARRANTED 31. 1867 SUPERIOR" surrounding an American eagle.

Not sure I did everything right but hopefully this works.


----------



## Brit

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


Lioneltrains - Thanks for sharing your medallion and I hope you found this blog post/discussion of some use. FYI there is another blog by another LJ that shows a huge number of medallions from a number of countries. Here is the link to that blog post.

http://lumberjocks.com/summerfi/blog/39861


----------



## unclefedor81

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


On the coat of arms of Moscow depicts George-Victorious spearing a snake

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Moscow


----------



## sawduster60

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


Hi new to the forum but lots of usefull information.
For those interested here are the links to the Lord Chaimberlains guide on the use of the royal coat of arms and the Royal Warrant Holders Association.
https://www.royal.uk/use-royal-arms
https://www.royalwarrant.org/

Those saw buttons are basicaly saying that the company holds the royal warrant and are therefore "supeirior".

Up untill in the first half of the 19th century the coat of arms was being widely missused and in 1840 the RWHA began challenging the missuse in the civil courts, by 1870 missuse or missrepresentation of a royal warraant became a crime.

Back to the use of the coat of arms on saw buttons it is likely that a saw made after 1840 with the the coat of arms is at least of a brand that may once have been ordered by say the clerk of works at Windsor Castle. After 1870 the manufacturer is going to be one of the officialy sanctioned Royal suppliers. None of this means that the warrant bestowes any guarentee of quality. But in the case of woodworking tools the Carpenters employed by the Royal houshold are going to be among the best in their Trade and their taste in tools should be as discerning as Her Magestys is for race horces.


----------



## MaineMan78

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


I'm totally newbie here, mine has no other markings on blade or handle but the medallion, which is an Eagle marked Warrented Superior









Any way to find out who the maker is?


----------



## Slufbeer

Brit said:


> *Warranted Superior Medallions*
> 
> Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:
> 
> "I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?
> 
> This coat of arms bears two mottos:
> 
> 1) *DIEU ET MON DROIT* - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.
> 
> 2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:
> 
> *HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE* - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.
> 
> There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.
> 
> Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.
> 
> *1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?*
> 
> Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.
> 
> It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.
> 
> *2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?*
> I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.
> 
> *3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?*
> It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.
> 
> Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.
> 
> I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.
> 
> *4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?*
> Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.
> 
> Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"
> 
> In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you )
> 
> The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.
> 
> At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.


I have found one in Goes the Netherlands with my detector


----------

