# Shop Size



## Bodine87 (Sep 24, 2014)

So, I am a beginner/hobby woodworker, currently doing rustic tables, headboards, and the like. I eventually want to be able to do a little more fine wood working like some cabinetry and what not. I also do all of my home repairs and upgrades b/c I refuse to pay someone I don't know for shotty work. I am working out of a very small 2 car garage. My garage serves as my shop, wood storage, general storage, my wife's random furniture painting project storage, bike storage, and lawn equipment storage. I don't have the space I want and also don't like when I open the door to the house and in flies a ton of sawdust. Currently I have an old craftsman table saw, a router, soon to build a router table extension on the table saw, a 4×8 workbench, a couple of storage shelf units, and the normal, drill, hand saws, circular saws, etc. I have tools for wood, general house repair, and a couple milk crates of auto repair. I would like to eventually get a drill press and band saw as well.

So, I've talked the wife into letting me build a shed out back to use as my shop. I have two choices, under 200 sq ft (no permit required) or over 200 sq ft (permits required). I was looking at 16' x 12' to stay under the mark, and 16' x 16' if I go over. I plan on having enough of a roof pitch to store some lumber in the rafters to save some space. I don't have an enormous back yard as I live in an HOA controlled subdivision and I'm on just over a quarter of an acre so i don't want something enormous that takes over the yard. Just enough to do what I want without a mess in the house. Anyhow what's everyone's thoughts and recommendations on this? Do I need bigger. Am I over thinking this one? Thanks in advance for everyone's input, I really enjoy reading the wealth of knowledge and information available in these forums!!


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## jmartel (Jul 6, 2012)

Always go as big as you can afford. Even 16×16 isn't very large. I've got a 16.25×18.75' garage that I'm working in (with low ceilings) and it's full. Granted, I also keep bicycles and a motorcycle in there, but it's about as full as it can be. I'd like a 24×24' shop, myself.


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## Tugboater78 (May 26, 2012)

Im basically doing the same as you out of a 10×20 shop. Though couple months back I bought a 12×16 from the amish/mennonites and had them back it up to my carport. Trying to seperate tools and benches between the two.

Like jmartel said, as big as you can build. Maybe plan for possible additions in future. Any size you go with will eventually be too small, its just the way it seems to work.


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## Charlie5791 (Feb 21, 2012)

not sure what it's like where you are but…

I built 16×24 and needed a permit.
The permit cost me $65

In the overall scheme of things that was a drop in the proverbial bucket.


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## Woodmaster1 (Apr 26, 2011)

My shop is 30' x 33'. I could only build a 1000 sq. ft. By permit. Any size shop will do as it will never be big enough.


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## B4B (Sep 6, 2014)

The best recommendation I have seen is to get some graph paper, and make cutouts for the equipment you have, or want to have, and figure out how big you need for that equipment, workbenches, and whatever else is going to be stored in there.

Keep in mind clearances for cutting, if you want to rip 8' long stock, you'll need about 7 feet behind and in front of a table saw. for croscutting, you'll need about 6' for that same 8' long stock. Clearances for a planer and jointer are going to be similar. If you can, overlap in-feed and out-feed space for different tools, make your outfeed table for the table saw multi-purpose, it could be used as an assembly table, workbench, and for storage.

Some common shop equipment that you didn't list that some people (or want to) have are a planer, jointer (for squaring up rough lumber), bandsaw, and a drill press, and dust collection and air filter. A compound miter saw can also come in handy. Depending on what kind of projects you are working on, you may need or want other power tools (stationary or hand) that are suited for those projects.

You can use mobile bases and wheels to take advantage of a smaller shop, but this may not be convenient.

You can build a dream shop to keep everything stationary, but that may be cost or space prohibitive. You could do something in the middle where some tools and your bench are mobile while others are stationary and have a footprint somewhere in the middle of large and small.

A large door opening (overhang, barn, or hinged) that opens to a covered patio could allow you to spill out into the yard on a nice day. A well placed window, door, or wall slot could allow you to work longer stock than the footprint would otherwise allow. Putting dust collection and compressor in a covered "annex" on the outside of your building would save some floor space and reduce noise in the shop, but may annoy anyone nearby.

Also, you'll want power out there, insulation, cooling, and probably heating if you plan to be out there year round.

Take a look at this: http://www.finewoodworking.com/workshop/article/smart-shop-in-a-one-car-garage.aspx for the projects that are completed in this shop, the author was able to work in a relatively small space.

This is a good tutorial on what this guy did: http://www.kevinsbrady.net/construction1.html


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## rad457 (Jun 15, 2013)

I have just under a 1/4 acre and put up a 24' by 24' shop, could use a few more feet. No matter what size it will never be big enough!


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## wseand (Jan 27, 2010)

If you can make it happen I would do the 16×16, I wouldn't go any smaller, if you can I would go a bit bigger. I would think you would be disappointed with a 12×16.


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## pauljuilleret (Nov 16, 2013)

as you say you live in a hoa controlled area the first thing I would do is go and talk to them it would be a shame to go through all that work and expense only to have them shut you down hoa's can be a like an inflamed hemroid to deal with so make sure you have no issues with them first. good luck and wish you the best with your shop project.


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## RRBOU (Feb 15, 2012)

I have a 12' x 16' shop and it is *WAY TOO SMALL* I can not imagine building a lot of cabinets in this small of a space. When I want to do anything of size I have to place most of the tools on the carport. I am going to add another 14' x 20' off the side in a T formation to try to get some room.


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## Bodine87 (Sep 24, 2014)

Wow, a lot of info for in such a short period of time! I love this place! I will agree with everyone that I could build a second house, and that would get too small!! Always does happen that way. I will most certainly try my best a drawing it all out ahead of time but sometimes you get in there and it just doesn't feel right and changes will need to be made on the fly. As for the HOA, they aren't horrible as long as I follow their rules. Has to be same as the house (hardi board siding, stone facade around bottom, same color). I do have to submit plans and drawings to them before building. That shouldn't be too bad. B4B, thanks for the great info. I have seen that smart shop one before and that's what I'm going for. Small but smartly used space! Mobile bases will be a must have. As for tools, planer and jointers are on the list of wants, but they will only come for the right price off of craigslist if I can find them. They are a little pricey for the single, yet important, task they can do. For now a good jig on the table saw and router table will have to do. Dust collection will probably come in the form of a shop vac for now. Fine dust collection will be a large shop fan, blowing out either a roll up door or barn door style, double out-swing doors. As for insulation and what not. I will leave it as bare studs for now. I'm in Georgia, so the winters aren't terrible and a good jacket will do for the cold. As for the summer a fan will have to do for now. I can always insulate later if the need arises. I think I will definitely stay away from the 16×12, but don't think I want to go over 20×20 for the yard size. As for the permit, the cost of the permit is not what concerns me. It's the cost of the multiple inspections. Those can add up. I appreciate everyone's feed back and will keep this updated as I get more towards build time. I'd like to have it done before next summer. We shall see!


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## patron (Apr 2, 2009)

try this 'shop planer' from grizzly
you can get an idea of tool sizes
and move then around in different ways
and change shop sizes too

http://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner

welcome to LJ's


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## Gentile (Jun 3, 2013)

My last shop (garage) was 12'x32'.
It was a pain to work in, low ceiling to boot.
My current one is more of a square shape.
It works out much better for machine placement and the ability to rip sheets of plywood and long boards…


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## Racer2007 (Jan 13, 2011)

You also might find that putting in insulation will cut down a lot on the noise factor that could cause issues with the neighbors. The less they hear the less thay have to complain to the HOA about. 
And if the 20 X 20 will fit , go for it. Plus if you are going to go for open studs the Inspections should not be to bad as everything will be open and can be checked at pretty much the same time. Then go in later and add the insulation and wall covering and you should be able to get by without another inspection.


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## wormil (Nov 19, 2011)

My shop is 16×20 but roughly half is lumber/misc storage. 16×10 is cramped unless you are doing small projects or just using hand tools.


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## bondogaposis (Dec 18, 2011)

I have a 12×24 shop and it is very cramped. It is hard to build large things, especially in the winter, when I can't spread outside. Plywood is a problem, I have to cut it up out side before I can bring it in. 16×12 would be tiny. You not only have to have room for the machine but room to swing lumber around and work space around each machine plus assembly space.


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## bodark (Aug 4, 2014)

I can attest to the "Never big enough" mantra. I'm lucky to have a 30' x 54' building that serves as both shop and storage/garage, but over time we've accumulated so much "stuff" that even that seems small. I built a 30' x 8' loft on one end for storage last year and we've purged a bunch of our junk, so it's getting better. I still sometimes find myself wishing for more space, though.


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

I work in a one car garage with my tools on mobile bases. So far I have built kitchen cabinets for two houses and a wet bar in a third.

About 12 years ago, I built a storage building in my back yard -120 sq ft max.
Read your HOA rules carefully. Mine states that the eve of the roof must be lower than the house. I made mine about four inches lower with same pitch 5/12. I haven't had any problems.


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## Crank50 (Jan 31, 2014)

I wanted a 24 square, but had to settle for a 16×24.
I built it with a barn style gambrel roof, with storage trusses on top of 9 ft walls. The storage truss design leaves a 4' high by 10' wide by 24 ft long attic for storage.
I put a double 4' x 8' door on one end and also a standard 3' by 6'-8" people door.
My floor space is 384 sq.ft. and this just fits all my machines.

Table saw is in the middle, miter saw along the right wall. Jointer and planer store along the right wall but get pulled out to use. My mortising machine is behind the miter saw station. I also have rolling shelves parked along the front part of the right wall where I store most of my power tools. A Drill press and band saw park in the two corners of the right side.
My modified Roubo style bench is across the near end of the space, between the double doors and the table saw, and acts as a in-feed table for the table saw if needed.
I'm also building a router table extension for my table saw.
My lathe and mini fridge and sink are across the back wall.
The left wall is occupied by a 12 foot long shallow, 12" deep, counter and wall cabinet where I store all my fasteners, glue, finishes, and hand tools. The back left corner is the stair to the attic with a toilet tucked under it. The front left corner is mostly clamp storage.

This space works well and I don't think I could shrink it any smaller without having to lose some major tool.

You mentioned you had a 4 ft by 8 ft work bench. That is huge and a major space hog. Especially if you have to manage in a 200 sq. ft. shop you will most likely have to cut that in half.


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## BikerDad (Jul 16, 2008)

1) Go as big as you can.
2) Plan on putting some "general storage" up in the loft as well.
3) Get everything from the HOA in WRITING. 
4) Smaller workbench. A 4'x8' workbench is a whole lot more bench than most folks find necessary. Keep the length, slim it down.


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

" I am working out of a very small 2 car garage. My garage serves as my shop, wood storage, general storage, my wife's random furniture painting project storage, bike storage, and lawn equipment storage."

I did some reorganizing of my *one car garage*. That helped a lot. With a washer, dryer, upright freezer, hot water heater and storage racks along one wall, the actual usable space is much less. My workbench is also my main work bench and outfeed table and clamping station and whatever else needs to be worked on table.  It is 30×42 with Kreg tracks and some dog holes. I have added a fold down extension that makes the work surface another 12 inches wider. It stays up most of the time.

If you have time, check out my blog on my garage makeover.

Also, I have built a couple of very usefull mobile workstations.
 
Mobile workstation

Adjustable height work station/dual router table

Mobile Planer Stand Note: I store three hoses underneath. That really helped get them out of the way.

Table Saw Tool Storage

As you can see, we get a lot done.









Twenty one drawers!









Picture frame assy.









Overview - Two sets of panels glued up in the clamps. Still room to walk through the garage. 









Good luck. Hope you get some ideas that you can incorporate into your new shop.

Note: Every one of my projects have been built in this garage. We have lived in this house since 1987.
Mike


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## Tugboater78 (May 26, 2012)

Mike I have kept tabs on your shop and projects and have to say you make it look easy. Excellent work as well!

Has given me many ideas (many/most still need to be initiated) on how to make the most use of my space.


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## Soonerdg (Nov 14, 2011)

I'll chime in as I just went through this process. Build the absolute biggest you can get away with and afford. I sarted out thinking that I could get by with 12×16. Then I got a little more ambitious and decided I'd go 20×20. I decided spanning roof trusses that far may be outside my skills (good call too) so I ultimately settled on 14×24. I got the walls up with siding on last week and the first time I stepped inside the shop with the walls up my first thought was Crap! I should have built a bigger shop. I think I'll be able to function in what I have but I'm sure I'll wish I had more space.

At any rate I'm sure you'll be happier that what you have now. My last shop was about 9×20 so this new one should be a dream….at least for a while.


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## a1Jim (Aug 9, 2008)

My suggestion is to build a 8×12" storage unit and put all of you bikes,lawn mowers and whatever does not belong in a wood shop and put that in stuff in the new storage and use your two car garage as your shop,that way power is close buy and it will cost less to build the storage unit,that means you will have money left over for more tools.


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## Rick Dennington (Aug 27, 2009)

My shop is 40' x50' (2,000 sq.ft.).....No childern….no pets…Just me and the wife….she works 4 days a week….no hassles from nosey neighbors…..Plenty of room…...I'm thinnking of expanding…...


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## DrDirt (Feb 26, 2008)

my 1 card add on is 14X21 and I find it too small (particularly narrow) but I have a unisaw with the 52 inch capacity, which leaves a narrow aisle between table saw and jointer.

Would love it to have been about a foot wider.

Shops are like sex or glue. More is always better! :^)


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## TheWoodenOyster (Feb 6, 2013)

My advice is buy the lot next door, build a shell of a house, but don't put any interior walls in it. Then you'll have a 2000 square foot shop. BINGO!

In all seriousness, I would go as big as you can. I worked in a shop that was about 10×20 and it was tight, especially when I built a formal dining room table in there. I now work in about a 16×12 space and it is still tight, worse than 10×20. I'm with bondogaposis on the use of the driveway in both this shop and my last shop, I am/was always in the driveway working on stuff. I bet I do over 50% of my work in the driveway.

My real suggestion is this: Build a 12×16 shed in the back and move all of the extra junk like bikes, mowers, christmas decorations, etc. to the shed. Then use the entire 2 car garage as a shop. Obviously the mrs. would have to approve… Easier said than done. That would give you more room and access to the driveway to roll mobile carts.


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## todd1962 (Oct 23, 2013)

I have a 16×24 shop. It is certainly adequate and I find it hard to complain. I see people making much smaller spaces work, but if you are starting from scratch I would not recommend less than 16×24. I would have built 24×24 but it would have impinged on my septic lines.


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## MT_Stringer (Jul 21, 2009)

> Mike I have kept tabs on your shop and projects and have to say you make it look easy. Excellent work as well!
> 
> Has given me many ideas (many/most still need to be initiated) on how to make the most use of my space.
> 
> - Tugboater78


Thank you, sir.

Here's something to think about.
I came home from work one day to find the door open to my shed. Someone had literally pried the lock and hasp off the door. Fortunately for me, I didn't notice anything missing from our junk piled up in there!  I guess they weren't interested in coolers, lawn chairs and other stuff.

It would have been a different story if I had my tools out there.


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## rantingrich (Sep 19, 2014)

Have you considered divorcing the wife and seeing a girlfriend who has some larger building she would let you use.

By the way welcome to the hobby. It's not as expensive as a divorce or a boat but it's close


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## buildingmonkey (Mar 1, 2014)

I struggled with the shop till I was 50, then retired from one of my jobs and decided to make an old pole shed into my shop. It was 26×66, and I made the shop 50' and left the 16 to store lawn mowers etc in. Last winter I finished the last 16' and moved all my lumber plywood, and cyclone into it. Along with the tire machine and motorcycle. Now the shop is big enough, trouble is, I don't have energy enough to really take advantage of it as much as I would like. Always thought I would spend all my spare time working if I had a shop, now I'm just so worn, need to put a recliner in there so I can rest up.


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## TechRedneck (Jul 30, 2010)

I had to check first where you lived. (GA) because you will find that heat/cold will play a part in your decision. This will impact the time you spend in the shop. Heat/cold/humidity come into play when you get into furniture building and the comfort and enjoyment you get from the hobby. A stand alone shop in the dead of summer can get like a little oven so factor that in.

That said, if you are new to all this then I would take the advice of some others here and build something as big as you can (never enough room) and also plan to use the garage as well. Perhaps you can use the out-building for storage and build out the garage for the shop if you are a power tool kind of woodworker.

If you favor the hand tools then build your new shop with that in mind. Use the garage for lumber storage and perhaps a chop saw station along a wall to cut your lumber to size for projects. Perhaps a planer on wheels with a dust collector.

Then you can outfit your shop with a band saw and other smaller power equipment along with a workbench and assembly table. Using the garage you can get your wood rough cut and keep the big machines there on wheels. Move the smaller planed lumber to the woodshop for jointing and assembly on a per-project basis. The table saw could work fine in the woodshop as long as you don't plan on cutting long boards.

It all depends on what you plan on making. I have found that once you get the parts cut to rough size, most of my time is spent on the workbench and assembly table. With a little planning you can arrange your tools and benches in such a way that you can work on any number of projects. This would be a hybrid approach and one that I tend to use in that I use my machines to get the lumber to within 1/8" of final size then switch to hand tools to fine tune and square everything up.

Many times I use a table saw sled to get things square and a good hand plane to trim the end grain. The rest is joinery which could be dowels, mortise & tenon, dovetails and such. This is can be done with a router table, band saw and some hand saws and chisels which would go in the new workshop.


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## Gunslinger (Aug 8, 2014)

I agree with all that has been said. You will never have enough space to put all of the things we seem to collect over time. I guess one question I would ask you is, do you plan on staying in the location you are living in for the next 10yrs or is there a potential for you to be relocating within that time frame? If it is longer go for what you think you can fit on your site and not get in trouble with the neighborhood police. If shorter, live with what you got until you can get to where you build what you really want. Took me 30yr to build what I wanted and it still isn't big enough.


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## Bodine87 (Sep 24, 2014)

Gunslinger, you've hit the nail on the head and probably a big piece of information that I failed to mention. I am in the IT industry and therefore could have to pick up and move at any time. We should be here for another 4-5 years but it's not guaranteed. I have to go where the job takes me. Neighborhood police don't care about the size too much as long as it looks like the house. I am think of a 16×16 maybe for cost, return on investment and what not. I don't think the next owners will necessarily want a 24×24 shop back there, but I'm sure I can sell a 16×16 shed/shop to any red blooded American man!! I think 16×16 may get tight but not unbearable. I always have the garage to store stuff in if need be. As long as my workshop is in the back it would fit the bill!


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## Pezking7p (Nov 17, 2013)

Always go as big as you can afford. My shop is 15×20 and I consider it bare minimum for what I have, which is pretty minimal really. I would go 16×20 or 20×20 if you have room. No matter how big you make it, you'll always wish you had more space.


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## Tugboater78 (May 26, 2012)

16×16 will be small but workable space


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## sepeck (Jul 15, 2012)

I would go with the build a shed to house your yard stuff/bikes. Only make it a 'real building' so you don't find a lock/hasp ripped off. Admittedly, you may not mind losing a lawnmower over a set of tools if a detached shop got broken into.

Get some cardboard boxes. Make some stationary tool mock ups. You can do this flat on the group or get ambitious and make boxes the size of your table saw. 
Get some stakes and string. Measure and stake out your area in the backyard. Grab a 8 foot board and move it around your 'shop' Restake for the next size shop.

Take pictures of both. Now you will have a better 'feel' for the size.


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## NormG (Mar 5, 2010)

he Wooden Oyster, your idea is not far from what someone I know did. Like me he lives in a area that the homes are WWII Capes. The house next door came up for sale after the owner died and due to the kids fighting it fell into disrepair and foreclosure. He purchased it at a good price and Walla a 1248 sq ft shop was born.

Bodine87, keep the garage and put a storage shed in back.


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